The UC Davis Pepper Spraying Incident

Excessive force
US News • Views: 25,002

Regardless of how you feel about OWS, this is just disgraceful. I can’t imagine how anyone can justify dousing these non-violent protesters with pepper spray at point blank range like this; it’s simply way over the top. But watch the whole video because it turns into a remarkable moment, as the protesters shame the police into backing down.

Youtube Video
UPDATE at 11/19/11 12:15:40 pm

The police contend that they were afraid for their own safety, but a second video shows that this claim is absurd. There was absolutely no threatening behavior going on.

Youtube Video

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524 comments
1 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:57:41am

Cops push us, it's only natural that we start pushing back.

And I still don't get why it's not OK to use the P-word. As it were.

2 austin_blue  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:59:45am

Agreed. Unnecessary use of force. That is a ridiculous assault, with the tacit backing of the College administration unless they immediately terminate the "officer". I prefer the term "thug".

3 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:01:20pm

This looks like the policeman had a moment of petulance, like Anthony Bologna's tantrum. He should know it's wrong to burn people with chemicals because he gets mad.

4 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:02:03pm

This is maddening to see as a student.

5 allegro  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:02:26pm

Should we be relieved that the kids were "only" doused with pepper spray and not tazered? I'm surprised we haven't seen that yet. Any form of torture appears to be acceptable to some when those damn kids just won't get off the lawn... literally.

6 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:02:32pm

This kind of thing will keep OWS alive despite itself.

7 bratwurst  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:03:08pm
I can’t imagine how anyone can justify dousing these non-violent protesters with pepper spray at point blank range like this

Our resident anti-OWS troll will be right on it.

8 Leo3  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:03:32pm

I think this is all the more powerful because there's no pushing back.

9 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:03:32pm

re: #3 jaunte

This looks like the policeman had a moment of petulance, like Anthony Bologna's tantrum. He should know it's wrong to burn people with chemicals because he gets mad.

in this case, I might have fought back and taken my chances in court...to hell with cause and effect

10 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:03:39pm

re: #2 austin_blue

Agreed. Unnecessary use of force. That is a ridiculous assault, with the tacit backing of the College administration unless they immediately terminate the "officer". I prefer the term "thug".

I've got a more fitting term.

11 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:03:50pm

re: #3 jaunte

This looks like the policeman had a moment of petulance, like Anthony Bologna's tantrum. He should know it's wrong to burn people with chemicals because he gets mad.

I like the photo - he does so matter of factly, as if a gardner pouring water on plants. I wonder - will there be repercussions for him.

12 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:04:01pm

These kids were protesting mostly spikes in their tuition rate by the way.

13 austin_blue  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:04:53pm

re: #2 austin_blue

Agreed. Unnecessary use of force. That is a ridiculous assault, with the tacit backing of the College administration unless they immediately terminate the "officer". I prefer the term "thug".

Wow. Just watched the whole thing. I'll edit the above with "officers" and "thugs."

14 JAFO  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:05:43pm

This is from an open letter to Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi from Prof Nathan Brown, UC Davis:

When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats. Several of these students were hospitalized. Others are seriously injured. One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood.

15 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:06:17pm

re: #2 austin_blue

Agreed. Unnecessary use of force. That is a ridiculous assault, with the tacit backing of the College administration unless they immediately terminate the "officer". I prefer the term "thug".

Knock it off. "Thug" is a registered trade or service mark of us union guys.

16 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:06:48pm

Pfft. Everyone knows that if those kids hadn't been protesting, the cops wouldn't have had a reason to douse them in pepper spray. After all, there are rules to enforce.

///

17 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:06:54pm

re: #12 HappyWarrior

Twice a year price hikes...

SAN FRANCISCO (KCBS) – Just as classes were getting underway for the fall semester, the University of California was looking to give students a more accurate financial forecast as they pursue higher education.

Students have seen tuition hikes sometimes twice a year recently, and regents are now considering whether to spread that out a little more consistently. Specifically, they are contemplating whether to impose annual tuition hikes over the next five years – of up to 16%.
[Link: sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com...]

18 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:07:01pm

re: #11 Sergey Romanov

I like the photo - he does so matter of factly, as if a gardner pouring water on plants. I wonder - will there be repercussions for him.

That was what disturbed me about it. He does it so matter of factly and doesn't seem to notice that these are human beings.

19 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:07:14pm

re: #14 mracb

I don't see why the throat incident particularly shouldn't qualify as torture and result in a long-term prison sentence.

20 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:07:25pm

See also elizajane's page on this, contains lots more info in the comments.

21 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:07:25pm

You buck up against the powers that be, you take your chances, and you generally lose. The sooner people realize this hard fact of modern life, the bettter...


/

22 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:07:47pm

Fuck these rent-a-cops. Given their incompetence at Penn State and their brutality at UC Davis, I hope they're the first to go when universities start making sacrifices due to budget cuts.

23 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:07:55pm

re: #17 jaunte

Twice a year price hikes...

Shit I'm not the protesting type but I'd probably be right there with them.

24 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:08:32pm

re: #12 HappyWarrior

These kids were protesting mostly spikes in their tuition rate by the way.

and they should...they deserve a comprehensive explanation, not just blather but exactly what the cost are and who's getting what....paying multi millions for football coaches and their outrageous perks, while students suffer financially is criminal imo

25 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:08:40pm

Image: J3AE5.jpg

But remember, kids -- the protesters are the bad guys.

///

26 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:08:43pm

Are there any people around who still enjoy "trust-fund Marxists" being maced?

27 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:09:34pm

re: #26 Sergey Romanov

Are there any people around who still enjoy "trust-fund Marxists" being maced?

It does build character.

28 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:10:06pm

re: #1 laZardo

Cops push us, it's only natural that we start pushing back.

And I still don't get why it's not OK to use the P-word. As it were.

Come to think of it, this macing guy on the photo, the one with the red moustache, does look like a certain personage from Angry Birds. ;)

29 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:10:16pm

re: #24 albusteve

and they should...they deserve a comprehensive explanation, not just blather but exactly what the cost are and who's getting what...paying multi millions for football coaches and their outrageous perks, while students suffer financially is criminal imo

Yeah, it's ridiculous when universities care more about their sports programs than what's best for the whole student body.

30 Kragar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:10:29pm

Obviously the kids were on the verge of attacking from a sitting position.
/

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:10:40pm

re: #17 jaunte

Twice a year price hikes...

It's been getting bad.

32 Targetpractice  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:11:02pm

Well, if these kids hadn't been participating in a violent protest, they wouldn't have been maced! It's their own fault for not obeying the cops! And it's not like the hippies were seriously injured, it's just pepper spray!

33 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:11:24pm

Somebody should do an OWS version of Angry Birds./

34 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:11:33pm

Police Defend Use Of Force On 'Occupy UC Davis' « CBS Sacramento

UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of concern for their own safety after they were surrounded by students.

“If you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” said Chief Spicuzza. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the decision that was made.”

35 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:12:05pm

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

It's been getting bad.

it's a national disgrace...it's a scam from tuition right down to books

36 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:12:14pm

Because. Some of the crybaby conservatives might get their delicate feelings hurt, and that's not allowed.

re: #1 laZardo

Cops push us, it's only natural that we start pushing back.

And I still don't get why it's not OK to use the P-word. As it were.

37 justaminute  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:12:22pm

re: #19 Sergey Romanov

I don't see why the throat incident particularly shouldn't qualify as torture and result in a long-term prison sentence.

It was torture. Did you notice the officer sprayed the students and turned his back on the students and casually walked back to the rest of the officers. Does that look like someone who was in fear for his life to you?

38 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:12:39pm

re: #34 Charles

Hindsight is 20-20

I'm tired of this worn cliche which is used every time one needs an excuse for a bad deed.

39 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:12:45pm

re: #2 austin_blue

Agreed. Unnecessary use of force. That is a ridiculous assault, with the tacit backing of the College administration unless they immediately terminate the "officer". I prefer the term "thug".

What about the other officers who did not step in?

40 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:13:08pm

College tuition and fees have increased out of all proportion. My tuition, fees and books costs for a four year degree (1975) adjusted for inflation were about $12,000. I could buy 15 hours from the same university for that price today.

41 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:13:36pm

re: #36 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Because. Some of the crybaby conservatives might get their delicate feelings hurt, and that's not allowed.

sure, right

42 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:13:37pm

re: #36 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Actually Charles forbade the use of the word. Just a friendly reminder.

43 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:13:55pm

Off to rest up for the 4PM TPGOP tent revival. BBL

44 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:14:07pm

re: #35 albusteve

it's a national disgrace...it's a scam from tuition right down to books

Books are some of the biggest scams on a college campus.

I priced all the books I was going to need for this semester from the university. It would have run me almost $900 through the bookstore.

I bought a combination of new and used versions of the same exact books from Amazon for just over $400. The markups are insane.

45 allegro  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:15:10pm

re: #34 Charles

Police Defend Use Of Force On 'Occupy UC Davis' « CBS Sacramento

UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of concern for their own safety after they were surrounded by students.

It must scare the livin' piss outa those officers when they are surrounded by thousands of those scary, dangerous kids at football games. For the love o' Pete, does that woman hear herself?

46 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:15:16pm

re: #37 justaminute

It was torture. Did you notice the officer sprayed the students and turned his back on the students and casually walked back to the rest of the officers. Does that look like someone who was in fear for his life to you?

that's where I might have snapped....the profound arrogance, some big shot taking out a student sitting there....shit like that deserves some payback

47 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:15:18pm

re: #44 Lidane

Books are some of the biggest scams on a college campus.

I priced all the books I was going to need for this semester from the university. It would have run me almost $900 through the bookstore.

I bought a combination of new and used versions of the same exact books from Amazon for just over $400. The markups are insane.

It's a fucking racket. Not going to miss that at all when I'm a graduate next year. Oh and the bookstore here at least is super stingy abut shit like shrink wrap. I bought a book with some of the shrink wrap opened. Ended up dropping the course since my faculty adviser told me there was another course I could take for the same requirement. So, I go back to the bookstore. First they want me to prove I dropped the class and then they won't take the book back because the shrink wrap was sort of open which is how I bought it. That was 125 dollars down the toilet.

48 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:15:49pm

re: #24 albusteve

and they should...they deserve a comprehensive explanation, not just blather but exactly what the cost are and who's getting what...paying multi millions for football coaches and their outrageous perks, while students suffer financially is criminal imo

Did you hear the NCAA plans to start paying athletes? Because who can get by on a measly full scholarship when there are so many other expenses? As Dick Vitale says, why shouldn't a Scholar Athlete be allowed to order a pizza like any other college kid?

Unfuckingbelievable. I grew up a sports fanatic, but I've really come to resent all the money and attention universities pour into athletics, especially considering almost all athletic departments lose money.

49 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:16:31pm

re: #44 Lidane

Books are some of the biggest scams on a college campus.

I priced all the books I was going to need for this semester from the university. It would have run me almost $900 through the bookstore.

I bought a combination of new and used versions of the same exact books from Amazon for just over $400. The markups are insane.

I took a class on modern poetry with a professor who made chapbooks by his friends required reading for the class.

I had to admire his loyalty.

50 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:17:03pm

From Boing Boing:

Trey Muhlhauser Yesterday 09:37 PM
There is actually legal precedence in California saying pepper spraying non-violent protesters legally qualifies as excessive force. Case was Headwaters Forest Defense v. The County of Humboldt. The casual way the officer paused before spraying certainly implies he was not under specific duress. UC Davis Police department is going to get sued, and probably will lose.

Here is the find law article on Headwaters V Humboldt. Note that this shit has been upheld as illegal since at least 2002.

51 Kragar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:17:27pm

re: #34 Charles

Police Defend Use Of Force On 'Occupy UC Davis' « CBS Sacramento

200 people in the crowd, so they spray the ones sitting down quietly in a line.

52 austin_blue  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:17:39pm

re: #14 mracb

This is from an open letter to Chancellor Linda P.B. Katehi from Prof Nathan Brown, UC Davis:

When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats. Several of these students were hospitalized. Others are seriously injured. One of them, forty-five minutes after being pepper-sprayed down his throat, was still coughing up blood.

Sweet ham and motherfuckers! That is one hell of a letter! She Who Must Be Obeyed just informed me Brown is untenured, makes about $64,000 a year, and that the average UC cop makes over a hundred. That young man has balls like grapefruits.

53 kirkspencer  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:17:52pm

riiiiight. They were surrounded, so they used the spray on the people sitting down.

edited to add: I see Kragar beat me to it.

54 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:17:57pm

re: #50 BishopX

Here is the find law article on Headwaters V Humboldt. Note that this shit has been upheld as illegal since at least 2002.

Pfft. It's just a bunch of violent, drug-addled Marxist trust fund hippies. Who cares?

///

55 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:18:08pm

re: #44 Lidane

Books are some of the biggest scams on a college campus.

I priced all the books I was going to need for this semester from the university. It would have run me almost $900 through the bookstore.

I bought a combination of new and used versions of the same exact books from Amazon for just over $400. The markups are insane.

both my RN and RT programs required new books, every term...no excuses...and they ranged up to over $100, and don't even think about asking why

56 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:18:16pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

200 people in the crowd, so they spray the ones sitting down quietly in a line.

Yep. Such kind of an excuse - the best excuse they had - shows that there is no excuse. None whatsoever.

57 Targetpractice  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:18:25pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

200 people in the crowd, so they spray the ones sitting down quietly in a line.

Well, obviously they were too scared of the violent ones in the crowd, so they sprayed the easier targets. Gotta make examples, after all.

//

58 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:18:44pm

re: #34 Charles

Police Defend Use Of Force On 'Occupy UC Davis' « CBS Sacramento

So now cops in large crowds are authorized to pepper spray nonviolent protesters since they're "surrounded" by them? I guess that explains all those instances of police brutality we saw committed against the teabaggers.

59 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:18:57pm

re: #42 Sergey Romanov

Actually Charles forbade the use of the word. Just a friendly reminder.

I don't endorse Charles Manson-esque behavior at all if that's what was implied by it. As I mentioned there are plenty of direct action ways to get back at cops that don't need to involve violence-for-violence. The mob action in the video is one way, police leaks are another.

Though I believe 000G did say it would have been pretty ironic if a cop got maced in return.

60 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:18:57pm

Very likely.

re: #26 Sergey Romanov

Are there any people around who still enjoy "trust-fund Marxists" being maced?

61 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:19:08pm

re: #53 kirkspencer

riiight. They were surrounded, so they used the spray on the people sitting down.

No doubt. They feared for their lives. Must've wet their pants too. We must sympathize with these brave sensitive men.

62 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:20:11pm

I might,possibly, believe the officers in question were in fear of the students if they hadn't gone after the seated group, which was in no position to attack anyone.

63 Kragar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:20:45pm

re: #58 Atlas Fails

So now cops in large crowds are authorized to pepper spray nonviolent protesters since they're "surrounded" by them? I guess that explains all those instances of police brutality we saw committed against the teabaggers.

Holy crap, a police car is surrounded every time they go on patrol in a bad neighborhood. Better deploy countermeasures.

64 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:20:45pm

re: #59 laZardo

Though I believe 000G did say it would have been pretty ironic if a cop got maced in return.

Anon is probably already working on identifying the culprits. Not that I endorse such tactics, mind you.

65 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:21:03pm

The second video I just posted above shows that these police were in absolutely no danger from anyone.

And by the way, the reason I won't allow police to be called "pigs" at LGF: as bad as this video is, and I agree this looks very much like brutality to me, the vast majority of police are decent people, doing a difficult, often thankless job, and they don't deserve to be dehumanized with a term like that.

No one deserves that kind of slur, and using it makes you no better than the ones you criticize.

66 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:21:16pm

re: #14 mracb

When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats.

I doubt we'll find this move in any official crowd-control manuals.

67 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:21:26pm

So you agree.

That's swell.

9_9

re: #41 albusteve

sure, right

68 austin_blue  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:21:37pm

re: #34 Charles

Police Defend Use Of Force On 'Occupy UC Davis' « CBS Sacramento

UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza said officers used force out of concern for their own safety after they were surrounded by students.

“If you look at the video you are going to see that there were 200 people in that quad,” said Chief Spicuzza. “Hindsight is 20-20 and based on the situation we were sitting in, ultimately that was the decision that was made.”

Don't you just the passive voice? It just happened! Oopsie!

69 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:21:51pm

re: #46 albusteve

that's where I might have snapped...the profound arrogance, some big shot taking out a student sitting there...shit like that deserves some payback

I'm with ya. I would have come unhinged.

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:21:56pm

This reminds me of an incident back in the earlier 90s, when pepper spray was being dabbed in protester's eyes to get them to unlock themselves from a metal-sleeve chain at a demo.

There were extensive repercussions in court.

These guys need to be canned, then sued. As does the UC System. If I were a parent of a kid out there, I would be in homicidal attack mode right now.

71 allegro  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:22:08pm

re: #46 albusteve

that's where I might have snapped...the profound arrogance, some big shot taking out a student sitting there...shit like that deserves some payback

I can see a sadistic asshole like this guy making his way onto the campus security team until he's found out but I cannot, under any circumstances, imagine why those other campus cops supported this. I've known a whole lot of campus police, most of them fine people - I am aghast at this.

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:22:21pm

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

200 people in the crowd, so they spray the ones sitting down quietly in a line.

Well, they're easier to get the pepper spray on. Moving targets are trickier.

73 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:22:51pm

re: #63 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Holy crap, a police car is surrounded every time they go on patrol in a bad neighborhood. Better deploy countermeasures.

I wonder if these cops were packing?...remember the one about the cop banging away with his Glock then said he thought he grabbed his taser?

74 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:23:12pm

re: #65 Charles

The second video I just posted above shows that these police were in absolutely no danger from anyone.

And by the way, the reason I won't allow police to be called "pigs" at LGF: as bad as this video is, and I agree this looks very much like brutality to me, the vast majority of police are decent people, doing a difficult, often thankless job, and they don't deserve to be dehumanized with a term like that.

Bullshit. This sort of behavior is endorsed by the establishment. Why do you think the cops/guards involved haven't been prosecuted? They've probably been shuffled off to a desk job until the heat dies down.

75 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:23:49pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

When I saw this video, your post is what I thought of but couldn't remember.

76 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:24:26pm

re: #73 albusteve

I wonder if these cops were packing?...remember the one about the cop banging away with his Glock then said he thought he grabbed his taser?

Heh. In this case it would be: "Judge, I was just grabbing my mace and accidentally grabbed my Glock, and it somehow fired 20 times. I swear!"

77 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:24:44pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

This reminds me of an incident back in the earlier 90s, when pepper spray was being dabbed in protester's eyes to get them to unlock themselves from a metal-sleeve chain at a demo.

There were extensive repercussions in court.

These guys need to be canned, then sued. As does the UC System. If I were a parent of a kid out there, I would be in homicidal attack mode right now.

Can you hear the sound of rotor blades over "The Ride of the Valkyries"? Lawyers.

78 Michael McBacon  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:24:47pm
The police contend that they were afraid for their own safety, but a second video shows that this claim is absurd. There was absolutely no threatening behavior going on.

"Fear is the mother of violence."
-Peter Gabriel

79 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:25:03pm

re: #48 Atlas Fails

Did you hear the NCAA plans to start paying athletes? Because who can get by on a measly full scholarship when there are so many other expenses? As Dick Vitale says, why shouldn't a Scholar Athlete be allowed to order a pizza like any other college kid?

Unfuckingbelievable. I grew up a sports fanatic, but I've really come to resent all the money and attention universities pour into athletics, especially considering almost all athletic departments lose money.

Schools should drop the guise of them being "student athletes" and simply hire them to play for the school team as professionals in what is in effect the "minor leagues" for the NFL. They could retain the option of returning to the school and completing their degrees at a later date.

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:25:22pm

re: #75 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I saw this video, your post is what I thought of but couldn't remember.

A friend of a friend was one of the dabbees.

81 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:25:23pm

re: #74 laZardo

Bullshit. This sort of behavior is endorsed by the establishment. Why do you think the cops/guards involved haven't been prosecuted? They've probably been shuffled off to a desk job until the heat dies down.

I don't know one way or another, but do you mean cops in general or higher-ups?

82 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:25:49pm

re: #74 laZardo

Bullshit. This sort of behavior is endorsed by the establishment. Why do you think the cops/guards involved haven't been prosecuted? They've probably been shuffled off to a desk job until the heat dies down.

You're allowed to disagree, but the bottom line is that I won't stand for cops being called "pigs" here. If it's that important to you to use a dehumanizing slur, then you can make the choice to either participate or not.

83 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:26:22pm

re: #74 laZardo

Bullshit. This sort of behavior is endorsed by the establishment. Why do you think the cops/guards involved haven't been prosecuted? They've probably been shuffled off to a desk job until the heat dies down.

what makes you think so?....quite a sweeping indictment

84 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:27:25pm

Indeed, the look of terror on this fat fuck's fine officer's face is palatable.

Image: J3AE5_(1).jpg

85 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:27:25pm

re: #59 laZardo

Though I believe 000G did say it would have been pretty ironic if a cop got maced in return.

No, what I said was that I wouldn't be surprised.

Killgore often says the peaceful protesters had the cop violence coming their way for standing next to a violent black bloc anarchist or something.

So why would you not expect backlash, be it as revenge, be it as self-protection, from protesters against cops who undoubtedly use excessive force? And why wouldn't the sane, reasonable cops realize that they would get some, too, since they stand next to the bad cops?

Escalation of violence is a two-way street. It's just expected. I wouldn't be surprised.

86 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:27:37pm

re: #81 Sergey Romanov

I don't know one way or another, but do you mean cops in general or higher-ups?

Both. "Grunts" and "Suits" alike.

Tony Bologna's got a history of brutality dating back to 2004. And it was only after the riots that the cops that beat Rodney King got actual justice.

87 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:28:07pm

re: #76 Sergey Romanov

Heh. In this case it would be: "Judge, I was just grabbing my mace and accidentally grabbed my Glock, and it somehow fired 20 times. I swear!"

I think it was that incident at the train station in SF?...remember they guy was laying on the ground when he was shot?...that's what I recall anyway

88 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:28:14pm

re: #79 ralphieboy

They should drop the guise of them being students and simply hire them to play for the school team as professionals in what is in effect the "minor leagues" for the NFL. They could retain the option of returning to the school and completing their degrees at a later date.

I've been saying that for ages. College football is the biggest load of bullshit out there. These kids go out there, make billions of dollars for these universities. Why not just pay the kids outright and let them come back later to finish school? It would make more sense.

89 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:28:47pm

re: #86 laZardo

OK, but name-calling won't help in this case anyway.

90 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:29:03pm

re: #79 ralphieboy

They should drop the guise of them being students and simply hire them to play for the school team as professionals in what is in effect the "minor leagues" for the NFL. They could retain the option of returning to the school and completing their degrees at a later date.

The fact you only need one year of college to be eligible for hte NBA draft is ridiculous. At least with football you need three years. It's crazy since in the past, guys like Jordan, Barkley, Olajuwon, and others I think did the whole four years at their university.

91 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:29:12pm

re: #87 albusteve

I think so, yes.

92 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:29:25pm

re: #85 000G

Cops and protesters are both standing in the front lines. They are the first who get hurt when shit gets out of hand. Both sides have vital interest in keeping things peaceful. But it's just a fact that the cops, as government force, have more power, both in escalating and in keeping things in line.

93 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:29:56pm

re: #50 BishopX

From Boing Boing:

Here is the find law article on Headwaters V Humboldt. Note that this shit has been upheld as illegal since at least 2002.

Thanks for posting that. I'm pretty "meh" about these claims of police brutality because most of them are overblown, exaggerated and otherwise dishonest. If the campus is out of line then I'm more than happy to let the courts handle it.

94 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:30:37pm

re: #90 HappyWarrior

The fact you only need one year of college to be eligible for hte NBA draft is ridiculous. At least with football you need three years. It's crazy since in the past, guys like Jordan, Barkley, Olajuwon, and others I think did the whole four years at their university.

And then you have exceptions like Kobe Bryant, who never went to college at all.

95 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:30:41pm

they put their lives on the line to PROTECT US!

From these trust fund public school marxists studying subversive things like community organizing!!!

YOU BETTER SHOW SOME RESPECT OR ELSE!!!

re: #61 Sergey Romanov

No doubt. They feared for their lives. Must've wet their pants too. We must sympathize with these brave sensitive men.

96 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:30:52pm

re: #92 000G

And as we know from The Movies, with great power...

97 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:31:08pm

re: #90 HappyWarrior

The fact you only need one year of college to be eligible for hte NBA draft is ridiculous. At least with football you need three years. It's crazy since in the past, guys like Jordan, Barkley, Olajuwon, and others I think did the whole four years at their university.

You can hit the NBA right out of high skool. Same with the NHL.

98 Varek Raith  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:31:14pm

re: #96 Sergey Romanov

And as we know from The Movies, with great power...

Comes great fun.
/

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:31:19pm

re: #87 albusteve

I think it was that incident at the train station in SF?...remember they guy was laying on the ground when he was shot?...that's what I recall anyway

BART Police. New Year's Day, 2009. Oscar Grant.

The cop said he was going for his taser, pulled his gun instead. Killed a man who was down on the ground, unarmed, right there on the platform at the Fruitvale BART station. (Oakland, not SF)

Very bad shooting. Not a great aftermath, either.

100 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:31:35pm

re: #88 Lidane

I've been saying that for ages. College football is the biggest load of bullshit out there. These kids go out there, make billions of dollars for these universities. Why not just pay the kids outright and let them come back later to finish school? It would make more sense.

I think it's because the NFL prefers things the way they are....that's ultimately where the money would come from, via TV etc...the whole thing sucks, and I love football

101 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:31:44pm

re: #98 Varek Raith

Comes great fun.
/

For Sith, that is.

;p

102 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:31:55pm

re: #94 Lidane

And then you have exceptions like Kobe Bryant, who never went to college at all.

Yeah the NBA changed the rule to require one year following Lebron James' draft class I believe.

103 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:32:04pm

re: #70 SanFranciscoZionist

These guys need to be canned, then sued. As does the UC System. If I were a parent of a kid out there, I would be in homicidal attack mode right now.

I am sure there are lots of parents out there that echo your sentiment. I have no doubt UCD will get theirs, in the courts, no matter their official denial mode right now.

104 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:32:27pm

re: #98 Varek Raith

Comes great fun.
/

Heh. We have some police material here! //

105 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:32:29pm

re: #85 000G

Killgore often says the peaceful protesters had the cop violence coming their way for standing next to a violent black bloc anarchist or something.

What I actually said is that participating in violent protests carries risks.

106 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:32:37pm

re: #97 Cannadian Club Akbar

You can hit the NBA right out of high skool. Same with the NHL.

and MLB but I thought the NBA requires one year which is what happened with Greg Oden and Kevin Durant.

107 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:32:51pm

I might point out to those unfamiliar with UC Davis, it is a rural, fairly conservative school maybe 20 minutes west of Sacramento. There is the usual amount of crime that you would expect on a college campus, but it's not exactly a hotbed of activism. I'd guess the campus cops had no clue what an appropriate response might be. That is in no way an excuse for them, more of an indictment of their training.

108 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:32:51pm

It's a little surprising after all this time that police in protest situations can be relied on to obligingly create the kind of imagery that is coming out of this incident.

109 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:32:53pm

re: #102 HappyWarrior

Yeah the NBA changed the rule to require one year following Lebron James' draft class I believe.

I did not know this. (I don't watch BB)

110 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:33:03pm

I reckon the best way to avoid getting pepper sprayed in the face is to march in solidarity with for an alleged pedophile facilitator, Joe Paterno, like they did at Penn State.

111 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:33:15pm

re: #90 HappyWarrior

The fact you only need one year of college to be eligible for hte NBA draft is ridiculous. At least with football you need three years. It's crazy since in the past, guys like Jordan, Barkley, Olajuwon, and others I think did the whole four years at their university.

easily the worst rule in the history of sports

112 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:34:01pm

re: #110 Gus 802

"Just a bunch of rowdy kids."

113 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:34:30pm

re: #110 Gus 802

I reckon the best way to avoid getting pepper sprayed in the face is to march in solidarity with for an alleged pedophile facilitator, Joe Paterno, like they did at Penn State.

That didn't quite work.

114 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:34:32pm

re: #74 laZardo

Careful to wander off into conspiracy land. You need a lot more evidence. "Plausability" of speculative bent is not a leg to stand on.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:34:34pm

re: #107 calochortus

I might point out to those unfamiliar with UC Davis, it is a rural, fairly conservative school maybe 20 minutes west of Sacramento. There is the usual amount of crime that you would expect on a college campus, but it's not exactly a hotbed of activism. I'd guess the campus cops had no clue what an appropriate response might be. That is in no way an excuse for them, more of an indictment of their training.

It's not exactly Berkeley, what is, but I can't believe they didn't train their campus security for 'upset students rallying about tuition hikes'.

Or, maybe I can.

116 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:34:34pm

re: #90 HappyWarrior

The fact you only need one year of college to be eligible for hte NBA draft is ridiculous. At least with football you need three years. It's crazy since in the past, guys like Jordan, Barkley, Olajuwon, and others I think did the whole four years at their university.

All three of them only played three years in college. Why, if you have the skills, should you be barred from getting a paying job?

117 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:34:50pm

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

BART Police. New Year's Day, 2009. Oscar Grant.

The cop said he was going for his taser, pulled his gun instead. Killed a man who was down on the ground, unarmed, right there on the platform at the Fruitvale BART station. (Oakland, not SF)

Very bad shooting. Not a great aftermath, either.

really stunning

118 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:34:53pm

re: #110 Gus 802

I reckon the best way to avoid getting pepper sprayed in the face is to march in solidarity with for an alleged pedophile facilitator, Joe Paterno, like they did at Penn State.

Or not to protest at all.

After all, who cares about twice a year tuition hikes? There are rules to enforce, you know.

Image: J3AE5.jpg

119 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:35:01pm

re: #107 calochortus

Training or not, they're human beings, and not from Basiji stock either. It's kinda, you don't know what to do, good, but you don't just go and mace.

120 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:35:05pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

What I actually said is that participating in violent protests carries risks.

The risk of getting laughed at by you when getting unjustly violated.

121 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:35:58pm

re: #120 000G

The risk of getting laughed at by you when getting unjustly violated.

Pfft. It's not unjust. Those kids were asking for it by protesting.

///

122 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:36:04pm

re: #107 calochortus

I might point out to those unfamiliar with UC Davis, it is a rural, fairly conservative school maybe 20 minutes west of Sacramento. There is the usual amount of crime that you would expect on a college campus, but it's not exactly a hotbed of activism. I'd guess the campus cops had no clue what an appropriate response might be. That is in no way an excuse for them, more of an indictment of their training.

Which is why I really don;t think the campus cops should be dealing with this. I think Berkley also had some questionable response from their campus police too. I don;t know what the laws are but campus meter maids shouldn't be handling this. It's safer for everybody if real trained cops were handling this.

123 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:37:17pm

re: #116 recusancy

All three of them only played three years in college. Why, if you have the skills, should you be barred from getting a paying job?

Yeah well at least they did three years rather than one and done like many of today's stars. I love basketball but it would be nice if these student-athletes actually became part of the campus community rather than using it as a stepping stone to million dollar salaries.

124 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:37:26pm

USF has it's own police force, IIRC. Don't most universities?

125 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:37:30pm

re: #108 jaunte

It's a little surprising after all this time that police in protest situations can be relied on to obligingly create the kind of imagery that is coming out of this incident.

I have to think the order to use pepper spray came down from someone higher up. The cops warned the protesters numerous times they were about to get sprayed; this decision was made in an office somewhere and the cops on the scene carried it out.

The shit's going to hit the fan at UC Davis over this.

126 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:38:08pm

re: #124 Cannadian Club Akbar

USF has it's own police force, IIRC. Don't most universities?

Mason has one, I know. I think most do especially larger ones.

127 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:38:32pm

re: #125 Charles

So, they were just following orders. Heh.

128 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:38:54pm

re: #14 mracb

Right on.

129 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:39:11pm

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

It's not exactly Berkeley, what is, but I can't believe they didn't train their campus security for 'upset students rallying about tuition hikes'.

Or, maybe I can.

Oh, I can as well. My daughter went there. Lovely school, but they, as so many large organizations, don't do a great job of thinking ahead about things they'd rather not think about.

130 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:39:13pm

re: #126 HappyWarrior

Mason has one, I know. I think most do especially larger ones.

USF is large. So maybe that's it. Disney has it's own police force, too.

131 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:39:15pm

Off topic: when you're talking about trading stocks, is it a 'security company' or a 'securities company'?

132 austin_blue  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:39:36pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

Which is why I really don;t think the campus cops should be dealing with this. I think Berkley also had some questionable response from their campus police too. I don;t know what the laws are but campus meter maids shouldn't be handling this. It's safer for everybody if real trained cops were handling this.

They make over a hundred grand a year.

Meter maids? Pretty good money for meter maids!

133 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:39:43pm

re: #131 SanFranciscoZionist

Off topic: when you're talking about trading stocks, is it a 'security company' or a 'securities company'?

security companies are ones that hire rent-a-cops and night watchmen

134 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:39:51pm

re: #122 Killgore Trout

Most campus police forces are real live police forces whose officers go through real live police academies. They may not be State Police, but they're on par with most municipal police departments.

135 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:40:18pm

re: #130 Cannadian Club Akbar

USF is large. So maybe that's it. Disney has it's own police force, too.

No, I think you're that that most do. Mason isn't huge- more medium sized. Disney makes sense. It's practically its own town from what I remember.

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:41:32pm

re: #130 Cannadian Club Akbar

USF is large. So maybe that's it. Disney has it's own police force, too.

USF? The University of San Francisco? It's not that big.

137 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:41:52pm

re: #134 BishopX

I work near the University of Penn campus and their cops are very professional.

138 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:42:25pm

re: #125 Charles

We were only followingk orderss!

139 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:42:27pm

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

USF? The University of San Francisco? It's not that big.

South Florida I believe. I thought about applying there long ago when I wanted to be a criminal profiler because I heard they had a good criminal justice program.

140 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:42:30pm

re: #119 Sergey Romanov

Training or not, they're human beings, and not from Basiji stock either. It's kinda, you don't know what to do, good, but you don't just go and mace.

No kidding. But if there is one cop that wants to pepper spray and there is no official policy, those cops who are horrified at the thought aren't likely to stop and discuss the matter with the guy doing the spraying. They'll probably just go with group loyalty.

141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:42:31pm

Not totalitarian enough. //

re: #134 BishopX

Most campus police forces are real live police forces whose officers go through real live police academies. They may not be State Police, but they're on par with most municipal police departments.

142 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:42:34pm

re: #127 Sergey Romanov

Just like every other cop.

143 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:42:44pm

re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist

USF? The University of San Francisco? It's not that big.

GO YOUR TEAM!!!!
/

144 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:43:43pm

re: #142 laZardo

Just like every other cop.

no such thing as a good cop eh?...
you live under a rock?

145 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:43:53pm

Chancellor creates task force to review Friday's incident
11.19.11

Dear Member of the UC Davis Community:

Yesterday was not a day that would make anyone on our campus proud; indeed the events of the day need to guide us forward as we try to make our campus a better place of inquiry, debate, and even dissent. As I described in my previous letter to the community, this past week our campus was a site of week-long peaceful demonstrations during which students were able to express their concerns about many issues facing higher education, the University of California, our campus, our nation, and the world as a whole. Those events involved multiple rallies in the Quad and an occupation of Mrak Hall which ended peacefully a day later.

However, the events on Friday were a major deviation from that trend. In the aftermath of the troubling events we experienced, I will attempt to provide a summary of the incident with the information now available to me.

After a week of peaceful exchange and debate, on Thursday a group of protestors including UC Davis students and other non-UC Davis affiliated individuals established an encampment of about 25 tents on the Quad. The group was reminded that while the university provides an environment for students to participate in rallies and express their concerns and frustrations through different forums, university policy does not allow such encampments on university grounds.

Continues.

146 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:44:03pm

re: #142 laZardo

Just like every other cop.

Some police go over and above the call of duty: both ways, in being humane and helpful and in being unnecessarily brutal.

147 kirkspencer  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:44:10pm

re LaZardo's 'endorsed by establishment' comment, yes and no. Dog help us, it looked like the sprayer was following a use of force rule-book and existing policies.

Degree of resistance can be met by use of force one stage higher. Actively blocking the roadway like this (passive resistance) can be met with 'soft' responses. The wonky and source of a lot of dissension is whether chemicals are 'soft'. If UCD policy says so, then the officer literally followed protocol. He spoke to them warning them he'd have to use it, he held it high and gave warning to area that he had it and was preparing to use it, he made a controlled spray of the subjects.

The next step is to secure the spray victims. They took two or three, not all. Then they hedgehogged. That, by the way, is a "fear of attack" formation. They appeared to believe they were facing a riot, a crowd on the verge of going violent.

And then they shot themselves in the foot, and their spokesperson ripped the wound wide open.

They didn't get all their officers, just those in riot gear. (There's an officer you see in the first video, not in gear, politely and gently directing traffic around the vehicle and back of a control line. He wasn't in the circle.) When they reached the edge of the crowd they didn't form a riot line, nor did they use a secure formation to exit the scene. Instead, they dispersed, strolling away.

Oops, where's the fear?

The spokesperson ripped it open by correctly tagging the fear line, but applying it to the spraying.

I don't know the whole situation - not what preceded it, not testimony, not copies of their rules and procedures. But based on what I've got the officer in charge is looking at being liable if the students pursue.

148 Kragar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:44:13pm

re: #138 ralphieboy

We were only followingk orderss!

THEY KNOW NOTHING! NOTHING!

149 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:44:40pm

re: #139 HappyWarrior

You wanted to be a profiler? really...I've been reading up on serial killers and would like to pursue being a profiler but it would take way to long.

150 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:45:39pm

U.S. Constitution - Amendment 1

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

151 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:46:12pm

re: #145 Gus 802

Some are calling this a "tepid" response.

152 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:46:26pm

re: #82 Charles

I have cousins that are cops and in law enforcement. I have to agree. They work long hours and put up with a lot. I wouldn't call all cops bad, or call them pigs or whatever.

However, some cops, like this asshole at UC Davis, deserve every bit of contempt they're getting. Just because he's a cop doesn't mean that he gets a free pass, IMO.

153 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:46:37pm

I don't think a lawsuit would be helpful. Firing the police chief and the chancellor would be better. A financial settlement would hurt the students and the taxpayers more than those more directly responsible.

154 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:47:12pm

Why even have trained police anymore. They're so fucking lazy anyways they pull out their tazer/mace/gun to step in for the work they are supposed to do anyways.

155 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:47:24pm

The key to tyranny of course is creating laws or standards that classify an ordinary "peaceful assembly" into "unlawful assembly."

156 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:49:06pm

re: #155 Gus 802

The key to tyranny of course is creating laws or standards that classify an ordinary "peaceful assembly" into "unlawful assembly."

Next step will be a terrorist meme.

157 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:49:54pm

re: #150 Gus 802

The complicating issue with free speech is whether it includes the right to camp. I tend to think not, but this was far beyond an appropriate response to a few tent erected, ironically, in the 'free speech' zone of the Quad.

158 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:50:28pm

re: #146 ralphieboy

More often the latter than the former, especially in a "target-rich" environment they create.

159 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:50:40pm

re: #149 Cannadian Club Akbar

You wanted to be a profiler? really...I've been reading up on serial killers and would like to pursue being a profiler but it would take way to long.

Yep, I was reading a ton on serial killers my sophomore year of high school and wanted to take an elective on criminal justice but I couldn't fit it into my junior year schedule since it would have taken up two classes. I ended taking a philosophy, psychology, film studies, and Spanish class instead. Forget what else. It just didn't work out. Got real into politics around the same time and took political science senior year. Now look at me. I'm a history major with English minor.

160 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:50:54pm

re: #156 Amory Blaine

Next step will be a terrorist meme.

Yes. Hence turning a demonstration near the Stock Exchange into a national security threat. They have all sorts of power now thanks to the Patriot Act.

161 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:53:02pm

It looks like there are dozens of videos of this incident on YouTube. Some of them show the police holding students down while they pepper spray them directly in the face from inches away.

162 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:53:26pm

Here are the links to the UC Davis job applications for www.employment.ucdavis.edu...] ">Police officer and Police Lieutenant (note Mr. Pepper spray is a lieutenant).

Here are the minimum qualifications for a Police officer:

- Must be 21 years old or older and a U.S. citizen.
- Must be a high school graduate or possess a GED (score of 40 or higher on individual sub-tests and a total score of 225 or higher) or attainment of a 2-year or 4-year degree from an accredited college or university.
- Must possess a current California POST Basic Certificate issued by the Commission on Peace Officers' Standards and Training or possess a POST Academy Certificate.
-Must possess a Class C California Drivers License.
-Proficiency in the use of a variety of weapons, i.e. mace, baton, handgun, shotgun.
-Knowledge of Police operating rules and regulations.
-Knowledge of pertinent case law.
-Skill to safely handle an automobile in high speed and emergency situations.
-Experience in the exercise of defensive tactics.

That sounds awefully like a real grown up police job.

163 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:53:59pm

re: #85 000G

BTW, do you think it will escalate? As in, in other places in the future other protesters will be ready with their own means of violent pushback specifically because of such incidents?

164 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:54:11pm

America Fuck Yeah!!!!!

165 reidr  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:54:20pm

re: #65 Charles

I've been an infrequent visitor here, and sadly, I didn't even know what the "p word" was. (That brings something else to mind, but I'm a different sort of pig sometimes.) It's been a long time since I've heard that term. It really is starting to feel like the 60s and 70s again. I agree that a cop's job is a tough one. Too bad there are the bad apples.

166 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:54:28pm

re: #161 Charles

Torture.

167 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:54:42pm

re: #163 Sergey Romanov

If it does, I would not be surprised.

168 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:54:52pm

re: #161 Charles

They pepper sprayed the group, grabbed who they could, then pepper sprayed the rest again while attempting to pull them apart. Several of the protestors were hospitalized with chemical burns.

169 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:54:58pm

re: #162 BishopX

He is proficient with that can. Wonder if he knows the bill of rights.

170 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:55:35pm

re: #166 Sergey Romanov

Torture.

assault at the very least

171 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:55:40pm

re: #160 Gus 802

Yes. Hence turning a demonstration near the Stock Exchange into a national security threat. They have all sorts of power now thanks to the Patriot Act.

They dehumanize the protesters by treating them like insentient, inanimate dummies. Referring to the cops in animal terms is still one notch above.

172 Varek Raith  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:55:51pm

During training, aren't cops hit with pepper spray to understand what they may inflict on others?

173 kirkspencer  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:56:53pm

re the "blocking the right to assemble" argument:

The right of free speech does not give you the freedom to create a panic by shouting "fire" in a crowded theater. The government is allowed /some/ restrictions on rights; narrow, specific, and mostly in circumstances where differing rights and responsibilities come into conflict.

The right to freely assemble exists. If that assembly is to form an army to overturn the government, there obviously exists a responsibility on the government to stop it. Equally and less extreme, governments are allowed to restrict the number of people in a building; to prevent overcrowding so they don't get trapped and trampled in fires among other things.

It's my opinion that most of the OWS suppressions are wrong. Note the qualifier, "most". However, some of the suppression points are, on their face, legitimate. Public safety matters and some of the issues are public safety. If you make a blanket claim that ALL the arguments presented are solely for the purpose of denying the right to assemble, you are arguing from ignorance or dishonesty. I for one am not really willing to dig through the spew to find your valid points -- and I support the OWS. Given that point, how willing do you think those undecided or opposed are willing to work to find your points?

174 austin_blue  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:57:11pm

re: #168 BishopX

They pepper sprayed the group, grabbed who they could, then pepper sprayed the rest again while attempting to pull them apart. Several of the protestors were hospitalized with chemical burns.

One was coughing blood. Forced his mouth open and sprayed down his throat.

Torture. Yes, it is.

175 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:57:15pm

In Russia when we badmouth our cops (and believe me, you're still being lucky), there is a usual retort: the police is just a "cross-section" of the society. Would you agree or disagree in regard to the US situation?

176 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:57:23pm

re: #172 Varek Raith

During training, aren't cops hit with pepper spray to understand what they may inflict on others?

I know they are hit with a taser, so I would think pepper spray would be in there as well.

177 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:57:24pm

re: #161 Charles

It looks like there are dozens of videos of this incident on YouTube. Some of them show the police holding students down while they pepper spray them directly in the face from inches away.

Any links? I've already had one person tell me the students "wanted to get maced for attention" and since they were warned, they should have "moved their asses" if they didn't want sprayed.

Seriously.

178 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:57:59pm

re: #162 BishopX

Here are the links to the UC Davis job applications for www.employment.ucdavis.edu...] ">Police officer and Police Lieutenant (note Mr. Pepper spray is a lieutenant).

Here are the minimum qualifications for a Police officer:

That sounds awefully like a real grown up police job.

Nope. They're just meter maids. KT said. And he doesn't do overblown, exaggerated and otherwise dishonest, so it has to be true.

179 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:58:10pm

re: #171 laZardo

I don't get your urge. Call these particular guys fuckers and be done with it.

180 kirkspencer  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:58:14pm

re: #172 Varek Raith

During training, aren't cops hit with pepper spray to understand what they may inflict on others?

It was when I was training years ago. But it was a joke as I wrote in my after action report. I got more from backspray during use.

181 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:58:19pm

re: #161 Charles

It looks like there are dozens of videos of this incident on YouTube. Some of them show the police holding students down while they pepper spray them directly in the face from inches away.

Pfft. They're just violent Marxist trust fund hippies. Those kids got what was coming to them for protesting.

///

Seriously, though -- I've seen the effects of pepper spray up close. It's not pretty. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and what this UC Davis cop did is inexcusable. People need to get fired over this.

182 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:58:27pm

The entire concept of free speech zones is just weird, anyway.

re: #157 calochortus

The complicating issue with free speech is whether it includes the right to camp. I tend to think not, but this was far beyond an appropriate response to a few tent erected, ironically, in the 'free speech' zone of the Quad.

183 engineer cat  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:59:10pm

stuck in a hotel room in a wilderness of suburban malls between meaningless meetings

for recreation i can drive around parking lots and one way access roads in circles endlessly, looking for a store it turns out closed a month ago

since my divorce my whole life feels like that sometimes

184 Kragar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:59:24pm

Santorum: Labor Unions Are Force For Good…If You’re Iranian

Discussing his plans for the bogeyman of the moment, Iran, Santorum outlined a three-pronged strategy to pressure and weaken the regime that many fear could develop a nuclear weapon soon. First in Santorum’s plan as he explained it to about a dozen voters in Ottumwa, IA Friday is a tough regime of sanctions against Iran. Third is covert military action against Iranian facilities and nuclear scientists.

But here’s number two, in full:

Work with the pro-democracy groups. There’s been some activity in Iran in the last few weeks. Explosions that have been unexplained. A couple of leaders of the Green Revolution have been arrested. There’s some fomenting going and, and there’s strikes going on. We should have several avenues of getting money into Iran to help striking labor unions, to give them money so they can keep out on strike and disrupt the government and try to create the revolutionary atmosphere there. Because we need to get rid of Mullahs and get rid of the theocracy that’s in charge there.

185 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 12:59:35pm

re: #177 Atlas Fails

Any links? I've already had one person tell me the students "wanted to get maced for attention" and since they were warned, they should have "moved their asses" if they didn't want sprayed.

Seriously.

Just follow the link to YouTube from one of the videos above -- the right sidebar will show lots more videos.

186 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:00:05pm

Honestly I for one am sick of every college student who protests for left wing causes being labeled a trust fund baby. Rant off.

187 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:00:10pm

re: #181 Lidane

Just fired?

188 Varek Raith  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:00:13pm

re: #181 Lidane

///

Seriously, though -- I've seen the effects of pepper spray up close. It's not pretty. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and what this UC Davis cop did is inexcusable. People need to get fired over this.

Same here.
In high school there was an incident in the cafeteria where two seniors had to be pepper sprayed. Got the cloud right up close. That sucked.

189 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:00:41pm

re: #188 Varek Raith

Same here.
In high school there was an incident in the cafeteria where two seniors had to be pepper sprayed. Got the cloud right up close. That sucked.

Did they fight for the last pie? //

190 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:00:48pm

re: #184 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Santorum: Labor Unions Are Force For Good…If You’re Iranian

Same thing with Polish ones during the Cold War. :)

191 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:01:05pm

re: #172 Varek Raith

There's also a big difference between getting hit with some pepper spray and getting a riot control sized can shoved in your face. Pepper spray isn't a gun. There is a difference between a little pepper spray and a lot of pepper spray.

192 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:01:15pm

re: #182 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

The entire concept of free speech zones is just weird, anyway.

True.

193 reidr  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:01:30pm

re: #181 Lidane

///

Seriously, though -- I've seen the effects of pepper spray up close. It's not pretty. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and what this UC Davis cop did is inexcusable. People need to get fired over this.

It was brutal just to watch, I can't imagine being there or being a victim. Also true of the baton beatings. Heads should definitely roll. The sicko(s) that cavalierly committed the act and their superiors if they don't take immediate action. Rules of engagement need to be clear, and this is wrong.

194 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:01:34pm

re: #183 engineer dog

stuck in a hotel room in a wilderness of suburban malls between meaningless meetings

for recreation i can drive around parking lots and one way access roads in circles endlessly, looking for a store it turns out closed a month ago

since my divorce my whole life feels like that sometimes

hang in there...after my divorce, I could hardly breath for three years

195 Varek Raith  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:01:34pm

re: #189 Sergey Romanov

Did they fight for the last pie? //

Beats me, I went home to take a long shower after that.
:P

196 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:02:08pm

re: #184 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Santorum: Labor Unions Are Force For Good…If You’re Iranian

Iranians, union members, Muslims, atheists, gays... whatever right?

//

197 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:02:24pm

re: #195 Varek Raith

Beats me, I went home to take a long shower after that.
:P

That's the spirit!

//

198 Varek Raith  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:02:34pm

re: #191 BishopX

There's also a big difference between getting hit with some pepper spray and getting a riot control sized can shoved in your face. Pepper spray isn't a gun. There is a difference between a little pepper spray and a lot of pepper spray.

True that.

199 Stanghazi  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:02:36pm

Ha. Just living this life. Sitting at bar watching football. Dude next to me is with firm that's repping pro Bono arrested OWS arrestees.

It's big.

200 reidr  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:03:07pm

re: #183 engineer dog

My life has been a little crazy too, so I'm sympathetic. Take care.

201 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:03:26pm

re: #187 Sergey Romanov

Just fired?

Fired, arrested, etc. I'm not familiar with California law so I don't know the penalties that would come from this. However, there NEED to be real penalties for it. What happened is inexcusable.

202 allegro  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:04:18pm

re: #181 Lidane

///

Seriously, though -- I've seen the effects of pepper spray up close. It's not pretty. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, and what this UC Davis cop did is inexcusable. People need to get fired over this.

I'll take it a step further. I think they need to be prosecuted for this. This goes way beyond employee misconduct. This is full-out assault with a weapon that was used with the clear intent to injure.

203 funky chicken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:04:43pm

re: #1 laZardo

Cops push us, it's only natural that we start pushing back.

And I still don't get why it's not OK to use the P-word. As it were.

Because throwing tantrums in public does nothing but harm your cause?

204 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:05:54pm

re: #175 Sergey Romanov

In Russia when we badmouth our cops (and believe me, you're still being lucky), there is a usual retort: the police is just a "cross-section" of the society. Would you agree or disagree in regard to the US situation?

Police officers in the US commit crimes at roughly the same rate as the general population. They are less likely to rob but more likely to rape (this may have something to do with the fact the most police officers are men).

205 laZardo  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:06:06pm

re: #202 allegro

I'll take it a step further. I think they need to be prosecuted for this. This goes way beyond employee misconduct. This is full-out assault with a weapon that was used with the clear intent to injure.

But there won't be.

The thin blue line will shield them.

206 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:06:06pm

re: #202 allegro

I wouldn't call it a step further, I think it's pretty much a default position. Cops aren't above law or on some higher plane of existence.

207 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:06:54pm

Oh shit. The actions of the cops at Berkley make those at Davis look downright tame. I don't know how old this is, but it's the first time I've seen it.

Youtube Video
208 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:07:33pm

re: #140 calochortus

No kidding. But if there is one cop that wants to pepper spray and there is no official policy, those cops who are horrified at the thought aren't likely to stop and discuss the matter with the guy doing the spraying. They'll probably just go with group loyalty.

Yes, and that's wrong. And it would be wrong even if there was "official policy".

209 austin_blue  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:08:43pm

Errands. BBIAB.

210 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:09:37pm

Romney's not going to be in that church debate tonight.

211 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:09:55pm

Where is Samuel Vimes when you need him?

And before you say that's a shallow response, I invite you to read Night Watch, which is as fine a piece of literature as was ever ignored because it was sci-fi/fantasy.

212 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:10:18pm

re: #207 Atlas Fails

Oh shit. The actions of the cops at Berkley make those at Davis look downright tame. I don't know how old this is, but it's the first time I've seen it.

[Video]

More trust fund Marxist hippies getting what's coming to them.

///

213 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:10:43pm

re: #145 Gus 802

Chancellor creates task force to review Friday's incident
11.19.11

Wow, what a bunch of bullshit.

214 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:11:38pm

re: #213 000G

Wow, what a bunch of bullshit.

Yeah. Pretty much. Looks like will take 90 days and the officer in question won't be suspended at this time.

215 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:11:50pm

re: #208 000G

Yes, and that's wrong. And it would be wrong even if there was "official policy".

"Official policy" might overcome the reluctance to challenge a fellow officer's actions. Of course it would still be wrong if they didn't do so.

216 funky chicken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:12:41pm

re: #161 Charles

It looks like there are dozens of videos of this incident on YouTube. Some of them show the police holding students down while they pepper spray them directly in the face from inches away.

Wow.

Ties in nicely with this article from MSNBC.:

CLGC’s memo proposes that the ABA pay CLGC $850,000 to conduct “opposition research” on Occupy Wall Street in order to construct “negative narratives” about the protests and allied politicians. The memo also asserts that Democratic victories in 2012 would be detrimental for Wall Street and targets specific races in which it says Wall Street would benefit by electing Republicans instead.
According to the memo, if Democrats embrace OWS, “This would mean more than just short-term political discomfort for Wall Street. … It has the potential to have very long-lasting political, policy and financial impacts on the companies in the center of the bullseye.”
The memo also suggests that Democratic victories in 2012 should not be the ABA’s biggest concern. “… (T)he bigger concern,” the memo says, “should be that Republicans will no longer defend Wall Street companies.”
Two of the memo’s authors, partners Sam Geduldig and Jay Cranford, previously worked for House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio. Geduldig joined CLGC before Boehner became speaker; Cranford joined CLGC this year after serving as the speaker’s assistant for policy. A third partner, Steve Clark, is reportedly “tight” with Boehner, according to a story by Roll Call that CLGC features on its website.

Somebody should ask Boehner if his buddies agree with using pepper spray on OWS kids, or is oppo research enough of a response?

217 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:12:46pm

re: #213 000G

Wow, what a bunch of bullshit.

No, no I'm sure it will take care of everything.//

218 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:12:52pm

re: #213 000G

Wow, what a bunch of bullshit.

"I hereby create an exploratory committee on whether a task force group should be created to study the question of ..."

219 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:12:52pm

Wait. I mean Thud!, although Night Watch also contains excellent bits on the role and psychology of policemen.

220 Atlas Fails  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:13:14pm

re: #213 000G

Wow, what a bunch of bullshit.

Prediction: a few cops will get Very Serious Reprimands for excessive force and protesters will be warned that they're activities violate some school code.

221 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:13:45pm

re: #218 Sergey Romanov

"I hereby create an exploratory committee on whether a task force group should be created to study the question of ..."

90 days to compose a "sternly worded letter" to the police department.

//

222 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:14:02pm

re: #207 Atlas Fails

That video was posted 11/9/11 and links to this:

Occupy For UC Berkeley graduate student Alex Barnard, the most disempowering moment of Wednesday night was not when he was repeatedly hit with a police baton, cracking one of his ribs. Instead, the most disturbing moment of his experience came afterward, when he says an officer told him he had “no rights.” .

223 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:14:13pm

re: #213 000G

There will be lawsuits, especially if there is supporting video evidence.

Police used batons to try to push the students apart. Those they could separate, they arrested, kneeling on their bodies and pushing their heads into the ground. Those they could not separate, they pepper-sprayed directly in the face, holding these students as they did so. When students covered their eyes with their clothing, police forced open their mouths and pepper-sprayed down their throats.
[Link: bicyclebarricade.wordpress.com...]

224 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:14:31pm

Holy crap all my California friends are going crazy about this. The younger ones, who I know from work, and my parent's older friends.

My California cop friends have dubbed Lieutenant John Pike "Mr Tough Guy" for his heroic actions of pepperspraying immobile students in the face, and invite him to join them attempting to contain a Longshoreman's rally at some point to see if his unique approach to law enforcement will work there.

225 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:14:39pm

re: #175 Sergey Romanov

In Russia when we badmouth our cops (and believe me, you're still being lucky), there is a usual retort: the police is just a "cross-section" of the society. Would you agree or disagree in regard to the US situation?

Without references, generalizing across 51 states and 2000 cities:

Very few Lumpen
Some Upper Lower
Mostly Lower Middle
Some Middle Middle
Very few above.

226 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:14:50pm

re: #221 Gus 802

90 days, and then they come to a conclusion that yeah, it was bad, but they were asking for it and shouldn't have wore that mini-skirt

227 Kragar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:15:18pm

re: #218 Sergey Romanov

"I hereby create an exploratory committee on whether a task force group should be created to study the question of ..."

We'll need to set up a meeting to plan the con call to discuss the creation of the committee.

228 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:16:26pm

re: #225 Decatur Deb

Police lieutenants at UC Davis pull 100K/year. That's upper middle if not upper.

229 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:16:48pm

GOP church debate in 45 minutes. Should be entertaining. Live stream here: [Link: www.citizenlink.com...]

230 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:17:29pm
231 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:17:32pm

re: #227 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

We'll need to set up a meeting to plan the con call to discuss the creation of the committee.

Put it on my schedule.

232 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:18:06pm

re: #230 laZardo

Eh, your choice.
Pity.

233 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:18:16pm

re: #230 laZardo

LaZardo. Knock it the fuck off please. Please! I like you and want to see you around this place. So knock it the fuck off. NOW!

234 allegro  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:18:32pm

re: #230 laZardo

You know what? Fuck it.

For abusing innocent students like that and then shielding themselves with the thin blue line and red tape, these cops and their whole fucking establishment that endorsed this are pigs.

I will not retract this, and I will not apologize for it.

Dude, pigs are intelligent, gentle, loving creatures. At least call them a name that applies.

235 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:18:50pm

re: #230 laZardo

I will never, never understand people who just need to use a slur so badly they can't stop themselves from doing it. I don't get it when Ludwig does it about Fox news women, nor you with cops. Why is the denigrating language so important? You can express the same exact thoughts without using it, so why do you have to do it?

236 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:19:00pm

re: #228 BishopX

Police lieutenants at UC Davis pull 100K/year. That's upper middle if not upper.

Yeah, but that's middle management in a high cost area. Definitions of US class boundaries are at least worth one semester of sociology.

237 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:19:08pm

Charles. Please don't ban La Zardo. He's a young guy. If you're going to do anything just give him a time out.

238 TedStriker  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:19:18pm

re: #145 Gus 802

Chancellor creates task force to review Friday's incident
11.19.11

Pardon me if I seem cynical, but this totally smells like a CYA move for this chancellor to keep her job.

239 Political Atheist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:19:59pm

Well many people said theses kids would have to get off the grass and start doing something. Here it is. Marches, sit down occupations, passive resistance and a certain determination. Get ready folks, this is what peaceful protest looks like. And yes they do now have offices. Still not co opted by a party or a union. Still not rioting.

And it's all in issues we all (more or less) want to see resolved. The goals are less controversial than anti war. Who would have thought that would happen? Protests for a fair balance of power and fair treatment from banks. As we see that just enrages the critics. They have no big issue to scream about. The best they got is lies and whining about costs like police overtime. Or a new lawn. "Oh no we gotta get sod!!" Poor things.

240 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:20:27pm

I like Lazardo, even if he gets the boot.

241 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:20:39pm

A "task force" is also a fine word for establishing what can be seen through 20/20 hindsight...

242 prairiefire  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:21:30pm

Emotionalism has a false appeal.[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

243 Sol Berdinowitz  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:21:40pm

re: #240 Sergey Romanov

I like Lazardo, even if he gets the boot.

re: #240 Sergey Romanov

I like Lazardo, even if he gets the boot.

Maybe Charles should just pepper spray him to let him know who's in charge around here

/

244 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:21:40pm

re: #236 Decatur Deb

I totally agree. My rule of thumb is you don't make it to the 90 percentile of the wealth pyramid in the US without getting "upper" in your class descriptor. Where you live determines whether you get to keep the "middle".

245 Kragar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:21:41pm

re: #231 Sergey Romanov

Put it on my schedule.

I'll put it on the team calendar, then document it on the spreadsheet.

246 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:21:52pm

re: #241 ralphieboy

A "task force" is also a fine word for establishing what can be seen through 20/20 hindsight...

20-20 hindsight = no retrospection necessary.

247 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:22:19pm

re: #239 Rightwingconspirator

In most cases, I've been pretty 50/50 on whether the protesters or the cops were causing the problem. Here, it's really obviously the cops. Passive resistance is hard to deal with, but what real pressing public safety is challenged by the kids sitting on the lawn? Why is it so god-damn important to get them off that you nearly provoke a riot and hospitalize a few of them?

248 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:22:42pm

Experts in getting sued coordinate response to protests:

As cities across America evict encampments of the Occupy Wall Street movement, similarities of timing, talking points and tactics among major metropolitan mayors and police chiefs have led critics to wonder: Is some sort of national coordination going on?
.....
PERF’s current and former directors read as a who's who of police chiefs involved in crackdowns on anti-globalization and political convention protesters resulting in thousands of arrests, hundreds of injuries, and millions of dollars paid out in police brutality and wrongful arrest lawsuits.
[Link: www.sfbg.com...]

249 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:23:04pm

re: #245 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'll put it on the team calendar, then document it on the spreadsheet.

I'll write on a sticky note that you did this.

250 Political Atheist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:23:14pm

re: #230 laZardo

Any other day I would downding that. Not today. Dude, say what you must short of getting blocked. Seriously.

251 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:23:28pm

re: #172 Varek Raith

During training, aren't cops hit with pepper spray to understand what they may inflict on others?

Most departments do that with tasers, if they use them, and I imagine also with pepper spray. I don't know if campus PD have the same sort of training.

252 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:24:22pm

Charles. Please give LaZardo a second chance. Put him on time out please. He's just a kid and got hot under the collar.

253 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:24:32pm

re: #250 Rightwingconspirator

Too late.

254 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:24:34pm

re: #251 SanFranciscoZionist

Many of them use a gas room, similar to what the army does. They have to sit in a room without masks while it gets pumped full of chemicals and if they exit before time, they fail and have to repeat it.

Still not equivalent to a liquid stream of it delivered right to your face.

255 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:24:46pm

re: #244 BishopX

So I just checked wikipedia, and LT. Pepper spray is in the 85-90% range rather than the 90%+ range assuming he makes less than 40k a year in over time. My bad. I still think he probably qualifies as upper middle class though.

256 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:24:49pm

Crap.

257 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:25:39pm

re: #229 recusancy

GOP church debate in 45 minutes. Should be entertaining. Live stream here: [Link: www.citizenlink.com...]

"Fun" may not be the word I'd use.

Over the past year I've written about the organizer, Vander Plaats and his organization, a little bit here.

Here is the guy:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Here is an example of what they do:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

It is to this guy and his group to whom the GOP candidates will bow.

258 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:26:10pm

re: #256 Gus 802

Crap.

was he banned or did his comment just get deleted?

259 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:26:17pm

re: #256 Gus 802

When you're told something is not allowed, and then you go do that exact thing, you're asking to get banned. Hell, banning him is basically respecting that choice.

If he emails after he cools down-- if he cools down-- then he'll probably get his account back.

Otherwise, it's another case of:

Image: dynamitemonkey.jpg

260 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:26:50pm

re: #228 BishopX

Police lieutenants at UC Davis pull 100K/year. That's upper middle if not upper.

Where they come from. I'll add the MPs are likewise in my experience as is the whole of the military. And the US is much more class static than the fantasy - a person may make more $$$ but will always in a way be of the class he or she grew up in.

261 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:26:58pm

re: #258 Cannadian Club Akbar

was he banned or did his comment just get deleted?

Banned. For now I guess. We'll see if Charles gives the blockhead a second chance.

262 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:27:10pm

re: #247 Obdicut

In most cases, I've been pretty 50/50 on whether the protesters or the cops were causing the problem. Here, it's really obviously the cops. Passive resistance is hard to deal with, but what real pressing public safety is challenged by the kids sitting on the lawn? Why is it so god-damn important to get them off that you nearly provoke a riot and hospitalize a few of them?

It's the classic reason: "Because I said so!"

263 funky chicken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:27:10pm

re: #228 BishopX

Police lieutenants at UC Davis pull 100K/year. That's upper middle if not upper.

Hey, I could do that job. I'll even take a 10 grand pay cut.

264 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:27:23pm

re: #258 Cannadian Club Akbar

Look at his info.

265 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:27:23pm

re: #163 Sergey Romanov

BTW, do you think it will escalate? As in, in other places in the future other protesters will be ready with their own means of violent pushback specifically because of such incidents?

The different municipalities certainly learned from each other in terms of dispersing the camps. Why wouldn't the occupiers learn, too, and then from each other? Not saying this will be good ("good reason", good idea"), but doesn't seem unlikely.

There is rational self-interest (not every protester will want to take the risk of being violated just because he was unarmed), but then there is also "irrational" self-interest (e.g. revenge). The protesters certainly are a lot more conscious of image (e.g. framing of issues like dignity, regardless of whether in an exploitative way or not) than the cops. A lot of or maybe even most cops just "follow orders". It's dangerous that cops seem to not bother with the social dynamics here above and beyond the individual event they act in.

266 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:27:35pm

re: #255 BishopX

So I just checked wikipedia, and LT. Pepper spray is in the 85-90% range rather than the 90%+ range assuming he makes less than 40k a year in over time. My bad. I still think he probably qualifies as upper middle class though.

It's too fine to nail down very precisely. My distribution was also kludged together with a consideration of what their parental economic class might be--where they "came from".

267 BishopX  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:27:44pm

Out for a walk before it gets dark. Fuck Standard time.

Catch you all later.

268 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:27:57pm

re: #259 Obdicut

Is there a similar policy for calling people cockroaches?

269 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:28:17pm

re: #177 Atlas Fails

Any links? I've already had one person tell me the students "wanted to get maced for attention" and since they were warned, they should have "moved their asses" if they didn't want sprayed.

Seriously.

If the students want to get maced 'for attention', that's yet another good reason not to spray, actually. Pepper spray is for crowd control, not for helping student protesters make a point. (Although I think the point was originally 'the rent is too damn high', not 'campus security are poorly trained sadistic bozos'.)

270 TedStriker  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:28:28pm

re: #250 Rightwingconspirator

Any other day I would downding that. Not today. Dude, say what you must short of getting blocked. Seriously.

re: #253 Sergey Romanov

Too late.

re: #256 Gus 802

Crap.

I like LaZardo, but it's not like he wasn't warned about continuing down that road, over and over and over again...I chalk it up to being young and stupid.

Some people are bound and determined to learn the hard way.

271 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:28:30pm

re: #256 Gus 802

Crap.

He could try to Occupy Denver Airport.

272 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:29:02pm

re: #268 recusancy

Is there a similar policy for calling people cockroaches?

Depends who you're calling it, I suppose, but I'm not Mr. Policy-Keeper.

I hope LaZardo cools down, writes a diplomatic email, and gets to come back, because I liked him and appreciated his viewpoint. But if saying that phrase is more important to him than his account, then, well, it is. And that's his choice.

273 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:29:15pm

re: #268 recusancy

Depends on which people. I would think calling terrorists cockroaches is safe (regardless if whether it is wise).

274 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:29:47pm

Not cool. I explained my position very clearly, and gave him more than one chance. Apparently the dehumanizing slur was more important than his LGF account.

I've seen this many times at LGF, unfortunately.

275 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:30:18pm

re: #268 recusancy

Is there a similar policy for calling people cockroaches?

I would support it, even though one of our babysitters was "Cockroach" Cochran.

276 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:31:14pm

re: #256 Gus 802

Crap.

QFT.

One does not have to be a supporter of OWS to call bullshit on brutality.

277 daliarose  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:32:26pm

Shameful. I am completely opposed to OWS, but this wrong.

278 Political Atheist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:33:01pm

re: #247 Obdicut

UC Davis is a soft target. A mere inconvenience to commerce when disrupted. This will get trickier, scarier at harder targets like financial headquarters, boulevards, freeway ramps, that sort of place. Then you might see Tasers and rubber bullets. Harder tactics at more critical locations.

279 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:34:00pm

re: #276 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

QFT.

One does not have to be a supporter of OWS to call bullshit on brutality.

That was for La Zardo.

280 zora  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:34:20pm

re: #210 recusancy

huntsman won't be there either.

281 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:34:33pm

re: #276 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, you were talking about Zardo.

282 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:34:33pm

re: #277 daliarose

Shameful. I am completely opposed to OWS, but this wrong.

Out of curiosity, what about it do you oppose? The tactics or the underlying grievances or both?

283 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:34:52pm

re: #281 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, you were talking about Zardo.

Yep.

284 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:35:28pm

Image: clutch-the-pearls.jpg

285 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:35:54pm

re: #278 Rightwingconspirator

UC Davis is a soft target. A mere inconvenience to commerce when disrupted. This will get trickier, scarier at harder targets like financial headquarters, boulevards, freeway ramps, that sort of place. Then you might see Tasers and rubber bullets. Harder tactics at more critical locations.

I'm hoping Winter in most cities will force them to regroup, rethink, and come out with a disciplined, focused campaign. (And enough SEIU Thugs [tm] to gently shoulder the Black Bloc.)

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:36:00pm

re: #211 EmmmieG

Where is Samuel Vimes when you need him?

And before you say that's a shallow response, I invite you to read Night Watch, which is as fine a piece of literature as was ever ignored because it was sci-fi/fantasy.

HUMOROUS sci-fi/fantasy, what's worse.

287 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:36:10pm

re: #268 recusancy

Is there a similar policy for calling people cockroaches?

Actually, yes. If you see someone use it, that's why the report button exists. I can't read every comment and be aware of everything that happens here.

288 Political Atheist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:36:47pm

re: #253 Sergey Romanov

Too late.

I respect his choice. Charles did the right thing.

289 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:36:54pm

Not that there's any kind of rush.

To this effect, I am forming a task force made of faculty, students and staff to review the events and provide to me a thorough report within 90 days.
[Link: chancellor.ucdavis.edu...]

Why would a thorough report take so long?

290 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:37:06pm

re: #273 Sergey Romanov

Depends on which people. I would think calling terrorists cockroaches is safe (regardless if whether it is wise).

It may be safe, but I have come to the conclusion that it is not a good idea. Among other things it separates "us" from "them" which is generally a poor idea. We are all human beings, the good and the bad.

291 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:37:06pm

re: #286 SanFranciscoZionist

HUMOROUS sci-fi/fantasy, what's worse.

Humorous sci/fi fantasy with lots of death, including a mercy-killing.

292 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:37:13pm

re: #219 EmmmieG

Wait. I mean Thud!, although Night Watch also contains excellent bits on the role and psychology of policemen.

"They may be called the palace guard, the city guard, or the Watch. Their job is to, one chapter into the book, or five minutes into the movie, attack the hero one by one and be slaughtered.

This book is dedicated to those brave men."

293 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:38:20pm

re: #289 jaunte

Not that there's any kind of rush.

Why would a thorough report take so long?

Staff meetings.

294 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:38:50pm

re: #290 calochortus

I'm meh about it. I mean, we all were glad when Osama kicked the bucket. Surely that is "worse" than calling him any names, as bad as it might be?

295 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:39:20pm

re: #237 Gus 802

Charles. Please don't ban La Zardo. He's a young guy. If you're going to do anything just give him a time out.

Added to this. Young, idealistic, and fun to have around.

296 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:39:40pm

More background reading about the sponsors of today's "debate":

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Note that Pawlenty's towing the IFPC's party line didn't help him in the end, probably because the reality of the Family Leader's position is that they are at the extreme end of what can be politically feasible in this country.


Yet here again we'll see the GOP candidates trying to bow down to this group. It'll play well in the Bible belt, but I expect that in the end the GOP will regret this.

297 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:40:01pm

re: #218 Sergey Romanov

"I hereby create an exploratory committee on whether a task force group should be created to study the question of ..."

I especially loved these condescending and patronizing parts:

as we try to make our campus a better place of inquiry, debate, and even dissent.

"We are so progressive we promote even the occasional dissent! So please nevermind all that forcing pepperspray down our students' throats."

students were able to express their concerns about many issues facing higher education, the University of California, our campus, our nation, and the world as a whole.

"Those silly little hippies were allowed to babble about whatever, so whattaya want, eh?"

298 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:40:17pm

re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist

Added to this. Young, idealistic, and fun to have around.

I suspect it's in Lazardo's hands now.

299 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:40:23pm

Yep, they all look alike. /

re: #196 Gus 802

Iranians, union members, Muslims, atheists, gays... whatever right?

//

300 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:40:36pm

re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist

Added to this. Young, idealistic, and fun to have around.

Fills the role Jamesfirecat grew out of.

301 Political Atheist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:41:32pm

OT
Finally got the dramatic stormy sky going on without any rain. So the camera is aimed at sky and running full on to grab a few hours of sky that become seconds in time lapse. Lurking and running the Canon.

302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:42:01pm

re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist

Added to this. Young, idealistic, and fun to have around.

I like the guy. However, I have to admit; I've been a bit pissed that he moved to the US not long ago (what three months?) and is already protesting the government and the US haves vs. have nots.

Down-ding away.

303 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:42:07pm

re: #300 Decatur Deb

James is no longer fun to have around?!///

304 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:42:21pm

Mmkay. Against my better judgment, I changed lazardo's block to a timeout. I hope it's not a mistake.

305 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:42:35pm

re: #300 Decatur Deb

Fills the role Jamesfirecat grew out of.

Yesterday's idealist, today's realist.

306 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:42:47pm

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I like the guy. However, I have to admit; I've been a bit pissed that he moved to the US not long ago (what three months) and is already protesting the government and the US haves vs. have nots.

Down-ding away.

Wasn't he a citizen all along? How do you know he wasn't merely studying there?

307 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:42:56pm

Linking Arms

308 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:43:08pm

re: #304 Charles

Mmkay. Against my better judgment, I changed lazardo's block to a timeout. I hope it's not a mistake.

Thanks!

309 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:43:20pm

re: #303 Sergey Romanov

James is no longer fun to have around?!///

I miss his puppy-like enthusiasm, and his pissing on the rug.

310 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:43:28pm

re: #289 jaunte

Not that there's any kind of rush.

Why would a thorough report take so long?

I think that's a decent response. Let tempers cool down, get all the information, make rational well informed decisions.
A lot of the Mayors, like Quan, have made rash statements and stupid decisions to cover their asses politically and leaving their police stuck with the blame and the increasing hassles from incoherent executive decisions.
Given the security and sanitation issues we've seen with the OWS camps allowing them to take over a college campus would be a really bad idea. The college needs to maintain security and can't just roll over to protesters demands to establish a camp. If security procedures need to be reviewed or changed it will happen soon enough.

311 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:43:29pm

re: #239 Rightwingconspirator

Well many people said theses kids would have to get off the grass and start doing something. Here it is. Marches, sit down occupations, passive resistance and a certain determination. Get ready folks, this is what peaceful protest looks like. And yes they do now have offices. Still not co opted by a party or a union. Still not rioting.

And it's all in issues we all (more or less) want to see resolved. The goals are less controversial than anti war. Who would have thought that would happen? Protests for a fair balance of power and fair treatment from banks. As we see that just enrages the critics. They have no big issue to scream about. The best they got is lies and whining about costs like police overtime. Or a new lawn. "Oh no we gotta get sod!!" Poor things.

The college kids, from the beginning, have had an identifiable agenda, and have not been doing damage, except possibly to the lawns.

Also, at Berkeley, they dragged out some pianos to their campsite, which I cannot fail to approve of.

I don't entirely agree that their invading a local BofA branch made much sense, and the one who peed in the corner there needs some talking to, but I can actually support this because I know what the hell they're talking about.

312 bratwurst  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:43:52pm

I am sure it is merely a COINCIDENCE that the major candidates missing from today's upcoming debate are both Mormon. /

313 TedStriker  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:44:11pm

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I like the guy. However, I have to admit; I've been a bit pissed that he moved to the US not long ago (what three months) and is already protesting the government and the US haves vs. have nots.

Down-ding away.

IIRC, he is a natural-born US citizen and has lived in the US before.

314 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:44:22pm

re: #294 Sergey Romanov

I'm meh about it. I mean, we all were glad when Osama kicked the bucket. Surely that is "worse" than calling him any names, as bad as it might be?

Worse for him. However the history of humankind indicates that dehumanizing groups of people starts with name calling. There is a strong taboo against killing-especially in cold blood, but we slaughter animals all the time. If those you don't like aren't really human it makes treating them badly much easier. I think avoiding 'going there' is good policy. Just my opinion.

315 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:44:32pm

re: #304 Charles

Mmkay. Against my better judgment, I changed lazardo's block to a timeout. I hope it's not a mistake.

Cool beans...

Listen up La Zardo. If you're reading this don't come back in here and use that word again! You're getting a second chance. Find some other way to vent your frustrations and don't use the p-word in here ever again.

316 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:44:51pm

re: #312 bratwurst

I am sure it is merely a COINCIDENCE that the major candidates missing from today's upcoming debate are both Mormon. /

Maybe they all want to go out drinking and dancing later.

317 RadicalModerate  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:45:25pm

re: #65 Charles

The second video I just posted above shows that these police were in absolutely no danger from anyone.

And by the way, the reason I won't allow police to be called "pigs" at LGF: as bad as this video is, and I agree this looks very much like brutality to me, the vast majority of police are decent people, doing a difficult, often thankless job, and they don't deserve to be dehumanized with a term like that.

No one deserves that kind of slur, and using it makes you no better than the ones you criticize.

A couple of thoughts on this:

First of all, thanks for posting the story, when I saw it and posted in last night's overnight thread on it I was absolutely appalled by the behavior.
I would like to also mention that the story that I linked back then has a rather extensive photo gallery (click on the bubbles above the photo to page thru the images) that shows close-up images of the pepper-spraying as well as the aftermath of the actions.

[Link: www.theaggie.org...]

I understand, and will abide by your rule. Dehumanization from any side is bad.

That being said, I will take some issue with your statement that the vast majority of police being decent people. Majority, yes, but an overwhelming majority? Not from my experience. This is a case that is especially true in rural areas that I have lived in, where Sheriff departments and Police forces are staffed more via nepotism, versus hiring the "best and the brightest". Many of these rank-and-file are essentially high school bullies with a gun and a badge. Unfortunately, it goes right up to the top in many of these areas. I'd be willing to say that there honestly are more "Sheriff Joe Arpaio" types around here than ones who are not.

Can we at least call these individuals above-the-law thugs?

318 ProMayaLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:45:45pm

re: #304 Charles

I don't think it is.

I'm probably quicker to anger than he is, and I know for a fact that I have called some groups 'rats.' I can't recall what groups though.

Of course, last week, I called the TSA people cockbuckets over the incident with the Indian President.

319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:45:59pm

re: #306 Sergey Romanov

Wasn't he a citizen all along? How do you know he wasn't merely studying there?

He's been posting here from the Philippines for as long as I can remember.

320 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:46:12pm
321 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:46:36pm

re: #319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He's been posting here from the Philippines for as long as I can remember.

I think he has dual citizenship.

322 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:47:21pm

re: #318 ProLifeLiberal

I don't think it is.

I'm probably quicker to anger than he is, and I know for a fact that I have called some groups 'rats.' I can't recall what groups though.

Of course, last week, I called the TSA people cockbuckets over the incident with the Indian President.

cockbucket? *writes down on insult pad*

323 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:47:43pm

re: #314 calochortus

Worse for him.

Why? We were the ones cheering and I don't feel bad about it.

However the history of humankind indicates that dehumanizing groups of people starts with name calling. There is a strong taboo against killing-especially in cold blood, but we slaughter animals all the time. If those you don't like aren't really human it makes treating them badly much easier. I think avoiding 'going there' is good policy. Just my opinion.

As long as they're well-defined groups that are proven bad, like terrorists, I don't see a problem with name-calling (it's not like we really don't understand they're human too). Calling ethnic, most religious, most social groups such? Instaban from my life works for me.

324 TedStriker  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:47:58pm

re: #322 HappyWarrior

cockbucket? *writes down on insult pad*

Is that anything like a cockblocker?
///

325 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:48:04pm

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I like the guy. However, I have to admit; I've been a bit pissed that he moved to the US not long ago (what three months?) and is already protesting the government and the US haves vs. have nots.

Down-ding away.

I think he's a citizen by birth, IIRC, but either way, just shows he learns fast.

326 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:48:21pm

re: #310 Killgore Trout

Given the security and sanitation issues we've seen with the OWS camps allowing them to take over a college campus would be a really bad idea. .

Have you ever been to a college campus?

327 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:48:33pm

re: #304 Charles

Mmkay. Against my better judgment, I changed lazardo's block to a timeout. I hope it's not a mistake.

Much appreciated.

328 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:48:33pm

re: #319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He's been posting here from the Philippines for as long as I can remember.

Sure, study takes time.

329 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:48:47pm

re: #324 talon_262

Is that anything like a cockblocker?
///

Ask PFL, his insult not mine.

330 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:48:48pm

For those who want an audio stream of the debate:
[Link: www.bottradionetwork.com...]

Vander Plaats is speaking.

331 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:49:04pm

re: #321 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think he has dual citizenship.

that's nothin...I have a dual personality

332 ProMayaLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:49:36pm

re: #322 HappyWarrior

That was the lowest insult I came up with. I wanted to say a whole lot more in terms of being pissed.

I more or less popped a gasket when I heard that story.

You know it is bad when the National Congress and BJP in India join hands around the world and yell at your government for idiotic moves.

333 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:49:58pm

Republican Rapture in 10. Time to check the wine jars.

334 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:50:03pm

Vander Plaats just said explicitly that he wants to elect leaders that will follow the Bible as a course for government.

"Winning from generation to generation to generation".

335 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:50:23pm

re: #326 Obdicut

Have you ever been to a college campus?

do they have bathroom?

336 TedStriker  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:50:43pm

re: #331 albusteve

that's nothin...I have a dual personality

Are you sure you're not Sybil?

;-P

337 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:50:47pm

re: #317 RadicalModerate

...I will take some issue with your statement that the vast majority of police being decent people. Majority, yes, but an overwhelming majority? Not from my experience. This is a case that is especially true in rural areas that I have lived in, where Sheriff departments and Police forces are staffed more via nepotism, versus hiring the "best and the brightest". Many of these rank-and-file are essentially high school bullies with a shield and a badge. Unfortunately, it goes right up to the top in many of these areas. I'd be willing to say that there honestly are more "Sheriff Joe Arpaio" types around here than ones who are not.

Seems silly to quibble about percentages. I'm in a rural area. There's corruption in the city and county law enforcement agencies, and the pay is lousy. The good young hires get a year or two under their belts and go to a bigger place with better pay. Still I would hate to tar the good, long serving ones with the brush that the bad ones deserve.

338 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:51:01pm

re: #331 albusteve

that's nothin...I have a dual personality

Then let the other guy talk for a while.
/

339 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:51:01pm

re: #317 RadicalModerate

That being said, I will take some issue with your statement that the vast majority of police being decent people. Majority, yes, but an overwhelming majority?

I'll concede that "vast majority" may have been overstated. I've encountered a few cops of the asshole variety too -- but also many who are good people. In other words, just like the rest of humanity.

Can we at least call these individuals above-the-law thugs?

The ones in this video absolutely deserve that description.

340 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:51:11pm

re: #311 SanFranciscoZionist

The college kids, from the beginning, have had an identifiable agenda, and have not been doing damage, except possibly to the lawns.

Also, at Berkeley, they dragged out some pianos to their campsite, which I cannot fail to approve of.

I don't entirely agree that their invading a local BofA branch made much sense, and the one who peed in the corner there needs some talking to, but I can actually support this because I know what the hell they're talking about.

Although I took some exception to a picture of that branch office invasion in which a man sitting at his desk, surrounded by Cal kids, was described as "a BofA official who declined to give his name". Made him sound like he was on the board of directors. I'm looking at the picture and thinking "That's an assistant branch manager, who's been treed at his desk by college kids with signs."

341 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:51:29pm

re: #334 freetoken

Vander Plaats just said explicitly that he wants to elect leaders that will follow the Bible as a course for government.

"Winning from generation to generation to generation".

And that is different from Shariah law how, Bob? Oh wait, it's Christianity so it's okay for the state to impose that. Fuck that.

342 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:51:40pm

re: #335 albusteve

do they have bathroom?

You might be surprised at how much bathroom they have. //

343 Kragar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:52:03pm

re: #334 freetoken

Vander Plaats just said explicitly that he wants to elect leaders that will follow the Bible as a course for government.

"Winning from generation to generation to generation".

Plaats can eat shit and die.

344 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:52:45pm

Strong emotion evokes from corruption of the "office" or title bestowed from high ideals. Anger erupts at cruelty.

345 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:52:48pm

Frank Luntz is speaking now. [Link: www.citizenlink.com...]

346 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:52:55pm

re: #162 BishopX

Here are the links to the UC Davis job applications for www.employment.ucdavis.edu...] ">Police officer and Police Lieutenant (note Mr. Pepper spray is a lieutenant).

Here are the minimum qualifications for a Police officer:

That sounds awefully like a real grown up police job.

That can't be right. I heard they were just meter maids from a very unlazy, unbiased researcher.

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I like the guy. However, I have to admit; I've been a bit pissed that he moved to the US not long ago (what three months) and is already protesting the government and the US haves vs. have nots.

Down-ding away.

He's a citizen, always has been. Even if he wasn't why would exercising his right to protest inequitable distribution of wealth be of annoyance to you?

347 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:53:33pm

Is there a video feed for this fanaticfest in Iowa?

348 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:53:44pm

re: #337 wrenchwench

Seems silly to quibble about percentages. I'm in a rural area. There's corruption in the city and county law enforcement agencies, and the pay is lousy. The good young hires get a year or two under their belts and go to a bigger place with better pay. Still I would hate to tar the good, long serving ones with the brush that the bad ones deserve.

front page of the ABQ Journal today....cop busted as part of prostitution ring...
face it, the temptation must be enormous with some guys...drugs, money, shakedowns...and it happens all the time

349 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:53:55pm

re: #345 recusancy

Frank Luntz is speaking now. [Link: www.citizenlink.com...]

Does he ever shut up?

350 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:53:55pm

re: #345 recusancy

Frank Luntz is speaking now. [Link: www.citizenlink.com...]

He says there' going to be no "gotcha questions" tonight.

351 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:54:07pm

re: #347 Charles

Is there a video feed for this fanaticfest in Iowa?

There are a couple links people posted.

352 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:54:18pm

re: #347 Charles

Is there a video feed for this fanaticfest in Iowa?

[Link: www.citizenlink.com...]

353 [deleted]  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:54:18pm
354 ProMayaLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:54:18pm

re: #329 HappyWarrior

Sort of got it off of a Radio show I watch on Mondays called Radio Dead Air. He sometimes uses insults that are off the cuff, and combine words such as "cock" with other things.

My little self-made example was kind of meant to say that TSA are a bunch of dicks, and of unusual magnitude.

355 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:54:30pm

re: #343 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plaats can eat shit and die.

Let him eat cake.

356 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:54:42pm

re: #347 Charles

All I've got is the audio feeds. The FotF site that is the link for "livestreaming" still doesn't have a video feed.

357 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:54:54pm

re: #347 Charles

Is there a video feed for this fanaticfest in Iowa?

Don't think so, there is audio someone posted above.

358 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:55:16pm

re: #353 eclectic infidel

uh oh

359 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:55:27pm

re: #354 ProLifeLiberal

Sort of got it off of a Radio show I watch on Mondays called Radio Dead Air. He sometimes uses insults that are off the cuff, and combine words such as "cock" with other things.

My little self-made example was kind of meant to say that TSA are a bunch of dicks, and of unusual magnitude.

Gotcha. I like douchenozzle.

360 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:55:37pm

re: #347 Charles

Is there a video feed for this fanaticfest in Iowa?

fanaticfest!
2 pts

361 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:55:37pm

re: #357 Decatur Deb

Don't think so, there is audio someone posted above.

Belay that. My audio has video.

362 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:55:48pm

re: #353 eclectic infidel

Why is it so important to use that word?

363 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:56:00pm

re: #356 freetoken

All I've got is the audio feeds. The FotF site that is the link for "livestreaming" still doesn't have a video feed.

If you read that link it says the livestream is on the home page.

364 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:56:00pm

re: #352 recusancy

[Link: www.citizenlink.com...]

Where's the video? I'm not seeing it - is there a link to click?

365 zora  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:56:11pm

i wonder if they will bash mormonism at this debate? i do not blame huntsman and romney for not attending.

366 Interesting Times  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:56:11pm

re: #350 recusancy

He says there' going to be no "gotcha questions" tonight.

Yes, because if there's one thing a US President never faces, it's sudden, stressful, unforeseen moments where they have to think on their feet 9_9

367 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:56:23pm

Luntz bemoaning for Ron Paul only getting 89 seconds in the first hour of the CBS debate.

I guess we'll get more of Paul this time around.

368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:56:48pm

re: #353 eclectic infidel

Really?

369 Political Atheist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:57:04pm

re: #339 Charles

I'll concede that "vast majority" may have been overstated. I've encountered a few cops of the asshole variety too -- but also many who are good people. In other words, just like the rest of humanity.

The ones in this video absolutely deserve that description.

Agreed. To raise a question for us all-How might the police best move a sizable crowd that must be moved? Say from a freeway or a bank lobby?
Or would we argue to just wait it out and avoid mild violence? Hmmm, this might make for a good poll if framed right.

370 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:57:14pm

re: #364 Charles

Where's the video? I'm not seeing it - is there a link to click?

[Link: www.citizenlink.com...]

371 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:57:14pm

re: #362 Obdicut

Why is it so important to use that word?

Call an ace an ace, that's why. It's a sign of disrespect. Those cops, on that day, etc., entered that fray with abuse on their minds.

372 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:57:14pm

Luntz really working the crowd, playing into the egos of the crowd.

373 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:57:14pm

re: #353 eclectic infidel

Knock it off now. Say that again and you will get banned (or a time-out if you're lucky). Stop it already. All of you.

374 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:57:16pm

re: #353 eclectic infidel

Those cops are PIGS. I'll say it. The conservatives on LGF can take offense all they want, that's their business. I don't condemn all cops as PIGS, but the ones at UCD, on that day, with that kind of behavior? PIGS. No respect earned on that day. Those demonstrators posed NO threat whatsoever. The PIGS acted out of malice with unnecessary violence. The demonstrators behaved admirably in the face of blatant abuse.

that issue has been decided

375 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:57:23pm

re: #364 Charles

Where's the video? I'm not seeing it - is there a link to click?

It's at the top of the home page. You're not seeing it?

376 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:57:52pm

re: #323 Sergey Romanov

Why? We were the ones cheering and I don't feel bad about it.

As long as they're well-defined groups that are proven bad, like terrorists, I don't see a problem with name-calling (it's not like we really don't understand they're human too). Calling ethnic, most religious, most social groups such? Instaban from my life works for me.

Why? I think I'd rather be called names than be executed. Under most circumstances, anyway.

Even with terrorists, I think it is a bad idea. It suggests that they are so different from us that we (and those like us) could never do anything that bad, and it is way too easy to extend the designation to those who are in some way like the terrorists.

I will confess to occasionally referring to an individual as "pond scum" or the like, though. :-) We are none of us perfect.

377 ProMayaLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:58:06pm

re: #359 HappyWarrior

Yep. I got real ticked at the story.

And no investigation from the US Government, or reforms from TSA.

Maybe Occupy needs to make an issue out of TSA. Not many people like them, and it needs either reform or liquidation.

378 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:58:17pm

re: #373 Gus 802

My rant is done. I see there a few sacred cows left though.

379 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:58:17pm

re: #371 eclectic infidel

I agree with the sentiment. But blog rules are blog rules.

380 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:58:29pm

Ah, there it goes. What kind of weird setup are they using?

381 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:58:43pm

>

re: #350 recusancy

He says there' going to be no "gotcha questions" tonight.

So questions about foreign policy and what they read are off but questions about how much they hate liberals and gays are in.

382 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:58:56pm

You know, I swear a lot. A fucking lot. I fucking love swearing. I'll swear my goddamn ass off and not give a shit. Motherfucker, do I enjoy myself a good fucking swear-session.

I've also been a member of forums where swearing isn't allowed And you know what? Somehow, I'm able to contain myself and find a different way of expressing what I think other than swearing. If LGF moved to a no-swearing policy, I'd be able to adhere to it. I might even privately thing it was dumb as fuck, but I'd adhere to it, because the particular language used is rarely that important.

I don't get people who just cannot stop themselves from using a particular word or phrase.

383 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:58:57pm

re: #326 Obdicut

Have you ever been to a college campus?

Yes, I have a an M.A.
One of the thing mentioned in the University President's statement is that the camp was being set up illegally with students and other outside groups. Campuses take security pretty seriously and random people just can't show up on campus and start sleeping in tent cities. Given the rape problem in regular OWS camps I don't think it's smart to allow this on campus.

384 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:59:14pm

re: #331 albusteve

that's nothin...I have a dual duel personality

FTFY.

:)

385 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:59:33pm

Is it because I'm using Safari that I can't see the video link?

386 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 1:59:50pm

This guy is a shill.

387 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:00:13pm

re: #378 eclectic infidel

My rant is done. I see there a few sacred cows left though.

And you down ding me for that? I'm trying to help you here. Real thinking there.

388 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:00:32pm

re: #384 wrenchwench

FTFY.

:)

whew!....I was about to shoot myself at 10 paces...
thanks

389 ProMayaLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:00:32pm

re: #384 wrenchwench

So he's Andrew Jackson?

390 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:00:44pm

re: #383 Killgore Trout

Dude, seriously? You think the 'rape problem' at OWS camps compares to the rape problem that exists on campus already?

Do you know how much rape goes on at college?

391 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:00:48pm

re: #376 calochortus

Why? I think I'd rather be called names than be executed. Under most circumstances, anyway.

Even with terrorists, I think it is a bad idea. It suggests that they are so different from us that we (and those like us) could never do anything that bad, and it is way too easy to extend the designation to those who are in some way like the terrorists.

I will confess to occasionally referring to an individual as "pond scum" or the like, though. :-) We are none of us perfect.

Sorry, you're missing the point. I'm not comparing death to calling names. I'm comparing cheering death to calling names. And, as I said, all of us are perfectly aware that terrorists are just other humans (humans are animals too, btw).

392 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:01:13pm

Anyone elses video lagging?

393 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:01:23pm

THE FED!! Guy talking is ranting on the FED already! He's not even on the schedule, but evidently a Paul plant.

394 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:01:31pm

re: #387 Gus 802

And you down ding me for that? I'm trying to help you here. Real thinking there.

Ok. Point taken. Reversed it.

395 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:02:00pm

re: #371 eclectic infidel

Call an ace an ace, that's why. It's a sign of disrespect. Those cops, on that day, etc., entered that fray with abuse on their minds.

I asked why using that word is important. You somehow managed to express the same thoughts without using that word, so you really didn't answer my question.

396 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:02:09pm

re: #392 Amory Blaine

Anyone elses video lagging?

Not so much, but my comment response time is crap.

397 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:02:10pm

looks like the last supper

398 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:02:25pm

Good grief, they are giving the first minutes to a Bircher loon.

What a loser this GOP debate has already become.

399 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:02:25pm

re: #393 freetoken

THE FED!! Guy talking is ranting on the FED already! He's not even on the schedule, but evidently a Paul plant.

He was supposedly an OWS guy that Frank wanted to have take the mic.

400 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:02:45pm

re: #395 Obdicut

I asked why using that word is important. You somehow managed to express the same thoughts without using that word, so you really didn't answer my question.

ever been to high school?

401 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:03:03pm

re: #399 recusancy

It's wrap-around-time. The fringe element is really all the same, they just take different labels at different times.

402 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:03:20pm

re: #400 albusteve

ever been to high school?

No. What's it like?

403 Killgore Trout  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:03:28pm

re: #390 Obdicut

Dude, seriously? You think the 'rape problem' at OWS camps compares to the rape problem that exists on campus already?

Do you know how much rape goes on at college?

Yes, that's why dorms have locks, security cameras, RA's and various levels of security to control who has access to the dorms. Having camps of random people sleeping in makeshift tent cities is a very bad idea. There's no way in hell the college is going to allow it.

404 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:03:29pm

No one will give me the video link directly?

405 zora  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:03:42pm

[Link: www.citizenlink.com...]

link for streaming of debate

406 jamesfirecat  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:04:01pm

re: #1 laZardo

Cops push us, it's only natural that we start pushing back.

And I still don't get why it's not OK to use the P-word. As it were.

Because nothing good ever comes from dehumanizing the other side.

407 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:04:04pm

Bachmanns pouring water?

408 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:04:19pm

thanks

409 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:04:22pm

re: #404 freetoken

No one will give me the video link directly?

It's at the citizenlink.com, then hit another link.

410 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:04:25pm

re: #382 Obdicut

I've been an activist for some time now, on a side that takes plenty of abuse from the rest of the Bay Area. The police here have, for the most part, treated us with respect and dignity, and such is true with the rabid opposition (read: Free, free Palestine, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free [insert, kill the Jews, etc]).

So it especially bothers me when I watch videos of police behaving poorly towards nonviolent demonstrators.

411 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:04:49pm

re: #394 eclectic infidel

Ok. Point taken. Reversed it.

Good. Don't use that word again. Charles specifically warned everyone already. La Zardo was just banned for several minutes but Charles changed it to a time-out. I just reported myself for a couple of previous indiscretions during the past few weeks. Just don't do it.

412 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:05:13pm

re: #391 Sergey Romanov

Yes, we're animals, but humans do draw a distinction between humans and other animals.

If we all understand that those people over there are humans just like us, why is dehumanization such a universal part of things like ethnic cleansing and war?

413 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:05:18pm

re: #402 Obdicut

No. What's it like?

it's where one typically learns lots of colorful descriptors and adjectives

414 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:05:26pm

re: #407 Amory Blaine

@RightWingWatch
Michele Bachmann pours every candidate's glasses of water #tff11 #cantmakethisstuffup

415 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:05:43pm

re: #403 Killgore Trout

Yes, that's why dorms have locks, security cameras, RA's and various levels of security to control who has access to the dorms. Having camps of random people sleeping in makeshift tent cities is a very bad idea. There's no way in hell the college is going to allow it.

I have really no idea why you're talking about random people in tent cities.

Isn't this a thread about the line of protesters, peacefully sitting, being pepper-sprayed in the face?

What tents are you referring to?

And the security on campus is kind of missing the point-- it's mostly students raping other students.

416 ProMayaLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:05:49pm

re: #414 jaunte

I thought that was a joke.

Oh dear.

417 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:05:50pm

Lagging to hard for me to watch. Too bad. Bachamnn was pouring the Sunny D for the boys. :)

418 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:05:55pm

re: #414 jaunte

She makes good cupcakes, also.

419 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:06:24pm

re: #410 eclectic infidel

I've been an activist for some time now, on a side that takes plenty of abuse from the rest of the Bay Area. The police here have, for the most part, treated us with respect and dignity, and such is true with the rabid opposition (read: Free, free Palestine, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free [insert, kill the Jews, etc]).

So it especially bothers me when I watch videos of police behaving poorly towards nonviolent demonstrators.

And that's very-well expressed, and you still didn't have to use that particular word. Which is, again, my point.

420 CuriousLurker  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:06:24pm

re: #376 calochortus

Why? I think I'd rather be called names than be executed. Under most circumstances, anyway.

Even with terrorists, I think it is a bad idea. It suggests that they are so different from us that we (and those like us) could never do anything that bad, and it is way too easy to extend the designation to those who are in some way like the terrorists.

I will confess to occasionally referring to an individual as "pond scum" or the like, though. :-) We are none of us perfect.

I agree, and not only because it is dehumanizing, but because (IMO) it also negates, choice, free will, whatever you want to call it. There's an old Afghan proverb:

Cats don't catch mice to please God.

Even if you take out the God aspect, it means that cats (and all animals) do what they do because it's their nature, it's instinctive. There's no right or wrong, no moral choice involved when an animal behaves in a way we consider vicious. Ditto for cockroaches—of all the insects in existence, I loathe them the most. They're filthy, disgusting, absolutely revolting...but that's what they're supposed to be, it's their job so to speak. We all know this—it's the reason we don't hold animals and other creatures morally responsible for their actions. They're off the hook. Not so with humans. Barring mental disease or extreme circumstances, we have a choice. I, for one, am not about to let any human off the hook in that regard.

WRT the blog, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "it is way too easy to extend the designation". People will walk right up to the edge of what's allowed, and then test to see what happens when they push past the limits, especially if the limits are less than crystal clear.

421 Interesting Times  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:06:34pm

re: #382 Obdicut

If LGF moved to a no-swearing policy, I'd be able to adhere to it. I might even privately think it was dumb as fuck

Heh :)

I don't get people who just cannot stop themselves from using a particular word or phrase.

Probably because they're thinking in terms of censorship, "political correctness", or 1984-style reworking of the language to forbid expression of entire concepts. To them, forbidding their slur of choice is the same as denying them the right to condemn something altogether.

422 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:06:40pm

re: #412 calochortus

Yes, we're animals, but humans do draw a distinction between humans and other animals.

If we all understand that those people over there are humans just like us, why is dehumanization such a universal part of things like ethnic cleansing and war?

It comes with the canine teeth. That's why we try to do better.

423 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:07:00pm

Bachmann:

"...the hand of God rising up this nation.."

Sounds like something Cain would do...

424 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:07:07pm

Well, this starts off as a camp meeting... wonderful...

425 TedStriker  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:07:33pm

re: #382 Obdicut

You know, I swear a lot. A fucking lot. I fucking love swearing. I'll swear my goddamn ass off and not give a shit. Motherfucker, do I enjoy myself a good fucking swear-session.

I've also been a member of forums where swearing isn't allowed And you know what? Somehow, I'm able to contain myself and find a different way of expressing what I think other than swearing. If LGF moved to a no-swearing policy, I'd be able to adhere to it. I might even privately thing it was dumb as fuck, but I'd adhere to it, because the particular language used is rarely that important.

I don't get people who just cannot stop themselves from using a particular word or phrase.

Because it gives them a sort of power, for a time (until they're blocked, banned or otherwise marginalized). It screams, "I don't give a damn about you and your rules, I'll say what I want, when I want!"

Immaturity and the apparent inability to keep their big yaps shut at the proper time get many in trouble all the time, online and in meatspace.

426 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:07:48pm

Charles is there going to be a debate thread, or is it too played out?

427 JAFO  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:07:58pm

holy crap this debate sucks ass.

428 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:08:04pm

re: #395 Obdicut

I asked why using that word is important. You somehow managed to express the same thoughts without using that word, so you really didn't answer my question.

The Police are there to serve and protect. They did neither on those videos. When I used the word, it was used to express my disgust, and calling them thugs, IMO, was too soft.

429 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:08:08pm

re: #424 freetoken

Well, this starts off as a camp meeting... wonderful...

If someone starts speaking in tongues, DRINK.

430 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:08:09pm

It does. It looks like the Last Supper.

431 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:08:20pm

re: #423 wrenchwench

Bachmann:

"...the hand of God rising up this nation.."

Sounds like something Cain would do...

nation she said not blouse.

432 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:08:27pm

re: #423 wrenchwench

Bachmann:

"...the hand of God rising up this nation.."

Sounds like something Cain would do...

shiver me timbers....
some spooky shit

433 zora  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:08:27pm

bachmann is telling her salvation story.

434 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:09:00pm

re: #390 Obdicut

Dude, seriously? You think the 'rape problem' at OWS camps compares to the rape problem that exists on campus already?

Do you know how much rape goes on at college?

To be honest, having off-campus people sleeping on campus in a tent set-up will not help there, so I can definitely see the college's concern over allowing such a situation to develop.

How this translates into emptying half a can of pepper spray down a protestor's throat eludes me.

435 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:09:29pm

re: #412 calochortus

Yes, we're animals, but humans do draw a distinction between humans and other animals.

If we all understand that those people over there are humans just like us, why is dehumanization such a universal part of things like ethnic cleansing and war?

Again, how is dehumanizing name-calling towards very bad guys is worse than cheering the death of very bad guys (which we all do)?

And please don't compare dehumanizing insults towards well-defined groups of bad guys (such as terrorists, Zetas etc.) with dehumanization that causes ethnic cleansing, apples and oranges.

436 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:09:34pm

re: #434 SanFranciscoZionist

To be honest, having off-campus people sleeping on campus in a tent set-up will not help there, so I can definitely see the college's concern over allowing such a situation to develop.

How this translates into emptying half a can of pepper spray down a protestor's throat eludes me.

This.

437 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:09:39pm

re: #428 eclectic infidel

The Police are there to serve and protect. They did neither on those videos. When I used the word, it was used to express my disgust, and calling them thugs, IMO, was too soft.

my exact feelings toward govt, specifically congress

438 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:09:50pm

Santorum trashing Islam.

439 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:09:53pm

re: #428 eclectic infidel

The Police are there to serve and protect. They did neither on those videos. When I used the word, it was used to express my disgust, and calling them thugs, IMO, was too soft.

You could call them unethical assholes who don't understand the basics of their jobs-- to protect the general safety and welfare. You could call them any number of things.

So why is calling them one particular derogatory word so important?

440 zora  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:10:02pm

it sounds like talking about god makes perry sleepy.

441 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:10:28pm

re: #438 000G

Santorum trashing Islam.

And then failing to distinguish Christianity as different.

442 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:10:53pm

re: #438 000G

Santorum trashing Islam.

Of course.When they think you're nothing but a Papist, bash another religion.

443 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:11:23pm

re: #390 Obdicut

Dude, seriously? You think the 'rape problem' at OWS camps compares to the rape problem that exists on campus already?

Do you know how much rape goes on at college?

UC Davis Clery Act Statistics (.pdf)

c. Sex offenses - Forcible
2008 - 27
2009 - 18
2010 - 21

444 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:11:34pm

re: #439 Obdicut

You could call them unethical assholes who don't understand the basics of their jobs-- to protect the general safety and welfare. You could call them any number of things.

So why is calling them one particular derogatory word so important?

for the same reason you love to swear so much?

445 Cap'nDave  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:11:35pm

It appears the police were given instruction to remove the squatters. I can hear just before the spray down an officer is telling the people to move on thier own. They refused. Next, I see the officer reaching for a female squatter to get her to move. She refused.

Now the officer brakes out the party canister and hoses them down. This incapictated the squatters allowing the officers to move and enforce the law all without a fight or resistance. Job well done IMHO.

I've been hit sprayed in the face with OC it's no laughing matter. My advice would be when the Po Po tells you to move, MOVE.

446 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:11:44pm

re: #434 SanFranciscoZionist

There's so many better ways to deal with this. So many. Hell just set up a goddamn drum circle right next to the tents.

Or, as that Philly police captain (retired) put it, talk to them. Keep on talking to them. Talk your goddamn ass off to them. He had utter contempt for the use of force at Occupy Wall Street, and that was a much more long-term and intractable situation.

447 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:11:54pm

Vomit inducing pandering. Back to Americas Test Kitchen for me.

448 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:12:29pm

re: #444 albusteve

for the same reason you love to swear so much?

Glad you get my point, Steve; if it was required, I can stop swearing.

449 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:13:11pm

re: #448 Obdicut

Glad you get my point, Steve; if it was required, I can stop swearing.

I understand you, but you have no point

450 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:13:39pm

Gingrich talking about "values", going directly after secularism.

451 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:13:45pm

re: #439 Obdicut

You could call them unethical assholes who don't understand the basics of their jobs-- to protect the general safety and welfare. You could call them any number of things.

So why is calling them one particular derogatory word so important?

More to the point, why on Earth is the use of that word so offensive here. I mean, sure, I could have called them a number of colorful derogatory words. Anyway, it's important to me because of their place in society - they are armed, they have the power to arrest and detain citizens, and use violence at their discretion. I thought about calling them fascists but I thought that was too harsh for that situation.

452 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:13:56pm

re: #449 albusteve

Oh Steve. You're just being courteous and helpful again.

453 Decatur Deb  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:13:56pm

No, "saeculum"--"age". Seculare would be a bogus infinity form.

454 ProMayaLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:13:56pm

re: #442 HappyWarrior

I think John Paul II would be ashamed of Santorum right now.

455 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:14:07pm

re: #450 000G

He knows how to dance.

456 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:14:19pm

Gingrich is so full of crap it's amazing he doesn't split down the middle.

457 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:14:42pm

re: #435 Sergey Romanov

I don't know that saying Saddam Hussein was a (insert favorite non-human slur) is going to be a huge problem, I just prefer to err on the side of caution.

Many people don't make the careful distinctions on the issue that you do, and I don't think we lose anything by not calling anyone less than human.

458 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:15:02pm

Back to Santorum. This is a fundamentalist roundtable, not a "debate".

459 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:15:02pm

re: #452 Obdicut

Oh Steve. You're just being courteous and helpful again.

no, just observant

460 recusancy  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:15:02pm

re: #456 jaunte

Gingrich is so full of crap it's amazing he doesn't split down the middle.

It's why he's puffy.

461 Obdicut  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:15:13pm

re: #451 eclectic infidel

Don't ask me, ask Charles. I happen to agree with it, because I think it's a stupid and lazy insult, any good use of which has been ruined by idiots who use it to refer to all cops, not just the bad apples. It's not a phrase that means "Cops who abuse their power", it just means "cops".

462 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:15:24pm

re: #445 Cap'nDave

I've been hit sprayed in the face with OC

Good! Job well done.

463 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:15:36pm

re: #445 Cap'nDave

It appears the police were given instruction to remove the squatters. I can hear just before the spray down with OC an officer was trying to get the people to move on thier own. They refused. Next I see the officer reaching for a female squatter to get her to move. She refused.

So now the officer brakes out the party canister and hoses them down. This incapictated the squatters allowing the officers to move and enforce the law without a fight or resistance. Job well done IMHO.

I've been hit sprayed in the face with OC it's no laughing matter. My advice would be when when the Po Po tells you to move MOVE.

Downdinged, not so much for applauding pepper-spraying anything that annoys you, but for the use of 'po po', an expression which annoys me more than almost any other word in the English language that won't be bleeped on TV.

464 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:15:47pm

re: #450 000G

Gingrich talking about "values", going directly after secularism.

Of course, let's get lectured about values by a man who has cheated on not one but two sick wives. Next, Jose Canseco will tell us how repeated steroid use is bad.

465 Gus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:15:47pm

BIAB

Everyone remain calm and keep the bulkhead doors closed and locked!

466 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:15:47pm

re: #454 ProLifeLiberal

I think John Paul II would be ashamed of Santorum right now.

is he the current Pope?

467 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:15:59pm

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm glad he is. If the policies he's protesting affect him, he's got that freedom of conscience, association, and the right to express such.

People fought and died for him and all of us to have it, regardless of immigration status. Supposedly.

468 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:16:27pm

re: #445 Cap'nDave

I've been hit sprayed in the face with OC it's no laughing matter. My advice would be when the Po Po tells you to move, MOVE.

Then there is this side of the fence. I was at one demonstration, a very very very long time ago and I was approached by an officer who was pretty cool about all of it. She told me that I had made my point, but if I didn't want to be arrested and charged with trespass, I should seriously consider walking away in the next five minutes. Heck yeah, I walked away.

469 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:16:40pm

Old friend of mine emptied a can of air freshener into his own eye just because the can said not to.

470 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:16:48pm

Ron Paul of all people being the voice of reason, trying to tame the theocratic fervor.

471 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:16:52pm

re: #456 jaunte

Gingrich is so full of crap it's amazing he doesn't split down the middle.

maybe he will spontaneously combust...
jus kidding

472 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:17:16pm

re: #463 SanFranciscoZionist

Updinged for downdinging for the idiosyncratic dislike of a word! :)

473 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:17:25pm

re: #446 Obdicut

There's so many better ways to deal with this. So many. Hell just set up a goddamn drum circle right next to the tents.

Or, as that Philly police captain (retired) put it, talk to them. Keep on talking to them. Talk your goddamn ass off to them. He had utter contempt for the use of force at Occupy Wall Street, and that was a much more long-term and intractable situation.

A lady who camped at Occupy SF for several days commented that one of the reasons that she left was that she wanted 'to shoot that guitar player'.

She has apparently gone on protesting with them, but goes home at night, to spare the guitar guy's life.

474 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:18:05pm

We need music for this:

MP3 Audio
475 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:18:12pm

re: #461 Obdicut

Don't ask me, ask Charles. I happen to agree with it, because I think it's a stupid and lazy insult, any good use of which has been ruined by idiots who use it to refer to all cops, not just the bad apples. It's not a phrase that means "Cops who abuse their power", it just means "cops".

Well for the record, it's the first time I've ever used that word in a forum, or for that matter, in real life. I don't feel bad about using it here but I'll refrain from this point forward.

476 freetoken  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:18:32pm

Romney gets a gold star for ducking this one.

477 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:18:50pm

The non-faith element?

Cain just gave me another reason to feel disgust for him.

478 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:19:01pm

Cain talks about how the faithful have been intimidated, rants against "political correctness police". Big applause.

479 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:19:15pm

re: #469 Amory Blaine

Old friend of mine emptied a can of air freshener into his own eye just because the can said not to.

"Moving Trains May be A Hazard"

480 Political Atheist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:19:22pm

NYPD
Nuanced!

Media Can Avoid NYPD Arrest By Getting Press Pass They Can’t Get

So far the NYPD has arrested 26 journalists covering the protests in New York this week, including two AP reporters and a Vanity Fair photographer. Loeser defended the arrests Thursday, according to a memo reprinted by The New York Observer. “You can imagine my surprise when we found that only five of the 26 arrested reporters actually have valid NYPD-issued press credentials,” he wrote.

Loeser added, in a tweet to Megan McCarthy, the news editor at The New York Observer (and a former Wired writer), “you don’t have a press pass; that’s your option. But why should some random NYPD take your word that you’re press?”

But Detective Sarubbi said that even if the NYPD were issuing press passes to cover the protests, there are no appointments available to get a press pass before January 2012.

481 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:19:38pm

re: #477 wrenchwench

The non-faith element?

Cain just gave me another reason to feel disgust for him.

Did he just express anti-atheist bigotry?

482 ProMayaLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:19:38pm

re: #466 albusteve

No, unfortunately. He was replaced by a conniving asshole who may have hidden information about the Sex Abuse from JPII.

A man who has made it very difficult for Turkey to join the EU.

According to Pietro Parolin, the Pope's voice is behind the Vatican's growing hostility towards Turkey joining the European Union because he believed that allowing a Muslim country into the EU would further weaken his case for Europe's Christian foundations. When he was still a Cardinal in 2004, the Pope had spoken out against a Muslim state joining the EU when the Vatican had then held a neutral opinion on the question, and was the leading voice behind the Holy See's unsuccessful drive to secure a reference to Europe's "Christian roots" in the EU constitution. But by 2006 when Parolin was working for Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, he stated: "Neither the pope nor the Vatican have endorsed Turkey's EU membership per se... rather, the Holy See has been consistently open to accession, emphasizing only that Turkey needs to fulfil the EU's Copenhagen criteria to take its place in Europe."

A man who reversed alot of good the last pope did.

483 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:19:39pm

Luntz being the despicable little pushpoller that he is.

484 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:19:42pm

Luntz is full of it, too.

485 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:19:55pm

re: #479 albusteve

"Moving Trains May be A Hazard"

Let's just say he hasn't been holding up well over the years.

486 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:19:57pm

re: #478 000G

Cain talks about how the faithful have been intimidated, rants against "political correctness police". Big applause.

Playing right into their sense of victimhood. We're the real victims, see!

487 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:20:37pm

re: #481 Sergey Romanov

Did he just express anti-atheist bigotry?

Yes. If that's what "people of non-faith" means. Maybe he meant Mormons.

488 jaunte  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:20:45pm

re: #486 HappyWarrior

Playing right into their sense of victimhood. We're the real victims, see!

"Even though polls show we are happier!"

489 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:20:53pm

re: #482 ProLifeLiberal

No, unfortunately. He was replaced by a conniving asshole who may have hidden information about the Sex Abuse from JPII.

A man who has made it very difficult for Turkey to join the EU.

A man who reversed alot of good the last pope did.

got it, thanks....that was the gist

490 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:21:06pm

re: #487 wrenchwench

What did that stupid fuck say?

491 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:21:13pm

Newt talking about how conservatives are happy believers and liberals are unhappy libertines, according to the Founding Father and contrary to Pelosi.

492 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:21:38pm

re: #490 Sergey Romanov

What did that stupid fuck say?

He called you a bully.

493 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:22:46pm

re: #492 000G

He called you a bully.

How would he know that?/

494 ProMayaLiberal  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:22:49pm

re: #489 albusteve

Benedict XVI is in part responsible for the uptick in Anti-Muslim sentiment in Europe that only ended 4 months ago when Norway had the 2nd Worst Terror Attack in European History.

495 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:22:54pm

re: #491 000G

Newt talking about how conservatives are happy believers and liberals are unhappy libertines, according to the Founding Father and contrary to Pelosi.

They're so happy, they need to tell gay people they're evil.

496 albusteve  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:22:57pm

re: #491 000G

Newt talking about how conservatives are happy believers and liberals are unhappy libertines, according to the Founding Father and contrary to Pelosi.

just sloppin the hogs

497 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:23:04pm

re: #463 SanFranciscoZionist

Downdinged, not so much for applauding pepper-spraying anything that annoys you, but for the use of 'po po', an expression which annoys me more than almost any other word in the English language that won't be bleeped on TV.

"Po po" also has another meaning, which makes the posters' support of spray-happy police kind of hilarious.

498 JAFO  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:23:06pm

I'm so Christian Jesus himself comes for a sleepover once a month.

499 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:23:14pm

re: #469 Amory Blaine

Old friend of mine emptied a can of air freshener into his own eye just because the can said not to.

There's a limit to what you can to do protect people who regard safety warnings as a challenge.

500 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:23:25pm

Perry talking about his prayer rallies. "Do not be afraid!"

Values
Values
Values

"The question: Whose values? The answer needs to be: OUR VALUES!"

verbatim!

501 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:23:39pm

re: #498 mracb

I'm so Christian Jesus himself comes for a sleepover once a month.

Yeah well he let me borrow his X-Box.

502 calochortus  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:23:58pm

I'm so glad I'm not listening to this 'debate'. In fact I think I'll actually go do something constructive for a while.

503 Amory Blaine  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:24:23pm

re: #501 HappyWarrior

Yeah well he let me borrow his X-Box.

Blasphemer!!!! He is a PC gamer!!!

504 HappyWarrior  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:25:44pm

re: #503 Amory Blaine

Blasphemer!!! He is a PC gamer!!!

He's got it all. Even still has his Atari from the 80's. Come on, the guy's the son of God. He has everything.

505 Ramona  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:31:15pm

re: #8 Leo3

I would hope, but I'm not sure, I would have the same commitment to non-violence these students had. They have my admiration!

506 TedStriker  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:32:01pm

re: #480 Rightwingconspirator

NYPD
Nuanced!

Media Can Avoid NYPD Arrest By Getting Press Pass They Can’t Get

So far the NYPD has arrested 26 journalists covering the protests in New York this week, including two AP reporters and a Vanity Fair photographer. Loeser defended the arrests Thursday, according to a memo reprinted by The New York Observer. “You can imagine my surprise when we found that only five of the 26 arrested reporters actually have valid NYPD-issued press credentials,” he wrote.

Loeser added, in a tweet to Megan McCarthy, the news editor at The New York Observer (and a former Wired writer), “you don’t have a press pass; that’s your option. But why should some random NYPD take your word that you’re press?”

But Detective Sarubbi said that even if the NYPD were issuing press passes to cover the protests, there are no appointments available to get a press pass before January 2012.

Funny, that...

507 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:33:35pm

re: #486 HappyWarrior

Playing right into their sense of victimhood. We're the real victims, see!

Those faggots and n*****s and libbbzzz won't let us victimize them anymore!!!

THIS IS NOT FAIR!

508 Ramona  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:35:02pm

re: #45 allegro

Hope this link works. The Davis Enterprise has several shots, including the dire tents and terrifying students :[Link: www.davisenterprise.com...]

509 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:35:41pm

re: #500 000G

Perry talking about his prayer rallies. "Do not be afraid!"

Values
Values
Values

"The question: Whose values? The answer needs to be: OUR VALUES!"

verbatim!

Their values only; all other values to be criminalized and/or second-classed again.

No wonder they resent "Shariah law" so much. They're jealous.

510 justaminute  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:36:35pm

Early this morning I was reading the UC Davis Facebook page and Twitter was just flying. Some of the students were commenting that previously some students at Davis had staged a sit-in before on campus in solidarity with Berkeley . They had the signs but were just sitting there studying. The students are known to be slightly conservative. Evidently parents, students, faculty and concerned citizens are going to stage another protest Monday.

511 Ramona  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:49:55pm

re: #145 Gus 802

"Chancellor creates task force to review Friday's incident
11.19.11
Dear Member of the UC Davis Community:"

What followed was truly a massive accumulation of Bovine Excrement!

512 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:50:34pm

re: #508 Ramona

Hope this link works. The Davis Enterprise has several shots, including the dire tents and terrifying students :[Link: www.davisenterprise.com...]

Look at all those violent, drug-addled, Marxist trust-fund hippies. I'm sure they got what they deserved in getting pepper sprayed.

///

Seriously, though -- I hope the shit hits the fan over this. Those kids didn't do anything violent or unprovoked. There was NO REASON to pull out the riot cans of pepper spray at all.

513 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:52:13pm

re: #491 000G

Newt talking about how conservatives are happy believers and liberals are unhappy libertines, according to the Founding Father and contrary to Pelosi.

Newt knows all about libertines, I'm sure.

514 jvic  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 2:56:40pm

re: #320 MikeySDCA

James Fallows in the Atlantic:

Read the whole thing.

I did, and clicked through to this photo.

The sprayer has the demeanor of a guard at a reeducation camp. He'd fit right in at the gulag.

515 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 4:01:57pm

re: #420 CuriousLurker

I agree, and not only because it is dehumanizing, but because (IMO) it also negates, choice, free will, whatever you want to call it. There's an old Afghan proverb:

Even if you take out the God aspect, it means that cats (and all animals) do what they do because it's their nature, it's instinctive. There's no right or wrong, no moral choice involved when an animal behaves in a way we consider vicious. Ditto for cockroaches—of all the insects in existence, I loathe them the most. They're filthy, disgusting, absolutely revolting...but that's what they're supposed to be, it's their job so to speak. We all know this—it's the reason we don't hold animals and other creatures morally responsible for their actions. They're off the hook. Not so with humans. Barring mental disease or extreme circumstances, we have a choice. I, for one, am not about to let any human off the hook in that regard.

WRT the blog, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said "it is way too easy to extend the designation". People will walk right up to the edge of what's allowed, and then test to see what happens when they push past the limits, especially if the limits are less than crystal clear.

I'd also add another point -- with some terms, there's a history and background of usage that makes them especially offensive and/or divisive, and I would put calling police "pigs" in this category. It's not simply that it's an insult, or even a comparison to an animal -- it's the divisive and/or unfair historical context behind the term.

I've known quite a few police and law enforcement people personally in my life, and it's just wrong to label these people "pigs." I don't want LGF to be a place where that kind of language is commonplace.

516 thecommodore  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 5:12:29pm

I wonder what will happen to the sprayer-cop.

As far as I'm concerned, he should be relieved of duty immediately.

I'm not holding my breath though. Didn't Anthony Bologna - the NYPD sprayer of young women coralled behind an orange fence - only lose vacation time? Seriously?

517 wrenchwench  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 5:36:15pm

I can't resist.

518 docproto48  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 5:47:41pm

re: #44 Lidane

Books are some of the biggest scams on a college campus.

I priced all the books I was going to need for this semester from the university. It would have run me almost $900 through the bookstore.

I bought a combination of new and used versions of the same exact books from Amazon for just over $400. The markups are insane.

If I'm not mistaken my undergrad school Eastern Illinois University still maintains a textbook rental library. Back in the 1970s with comparatively cheap tuition, ($350/ semester or so) and no books to buy I mowed lawns around town and graduated in 4 years with 156 credit hrs, not only with no debt but a couple thousand saved that got me through the 1st semester of med school! I graduated from U of I med school with a mere $60,000 debt paid off 5 years after graduation.
I really feel sorry for kids today. Tuition is outrageous and approaches restricting higher education to the rich.

519 docproto48  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 5:55:58pm

re: #515 Charles

I'd also add another point -- with some terms, there's a history and background of usage that makes them especially offensive and/or divisive, and I would put calling police "pigs" in this category. It's not simply that it's an insult, or even a comparison to an animal -- it's the divisive and/or unfair historical context behind the term.

I've known quite a few police and law enforcement people personally in my life, and it's just wrong to label these people "pigs." I don't want LGF to be a place where that kind of language is commonplace.

I agree, calling police "pigs" is like calling homosexuals "fags" it is a form of prejudice. My ex-wife is/was a KC MO police officer, being around the force personally raised my appreciation of the difficulty of the job. There were clearly a few bad apples but not many.

520 Lidane  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 6:04:46pm

re: #516 thecommodore

I wonder what will happen to the sprayer-cop.

1. Fox News commentary gig
2. Book deal
3. Right wing talk radio circuit

Especially if he gets fired for this. Expect him to become a martyr on the right, and a victim of the evil, violent, drug-addled Marxist trust fund hippies and libruls.

521 Charles Johnson  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 6:07:50pm

re: #520 Lidane

1. Fox News commentary gig
2. Book deal
3. Right wing talk radio circuit

Especially if he gets fired for this. Expect him to become a martyr on the right, and a victim of the evil, violent, drug-addled Marxist trust fund hippies and libruls.

Sad but true. I haven't checked out the wingnuts on this but I'm sure they're cheering for that cop.

522 Tsuga  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 7:13:58pm

re: #521 Charles

I first saw this video at Kevin Drum's blog, and one of the right-wingers who habitually posts there is repeatedly justifying the actions of the police and saying that the protestors had it coming. It's simply a rerun of the 1960s and prevalent attitudes on the part of much of "the establishment" back then. Expect to see a lot more like that one.

523 hambone  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 8:32:01pm

Most of you seem to miss the point that even though they were being filmed not one of the police thought anything wrong with what was going to happen. In the second video on of them uses a night stick jab in the guts to someone who is not resisting arrest. This must be Davis Police force restraint. I suppose the rest can say they were just following orders. We were planning to going to San Francisco after Christmas Feb 10-26 going out to the Argo museum in yolo county and taking the river train.
I think we will go San Diego instead.

524 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Nov 19, 2011 11:59:49pm

re: #523 hambone

Most of you seem to miss the point that even though they were being filmed not one of the police thought anything wrong with what was going to happen. In the second video on of them uses a night stick jab in the guts to someone who is not resisting arrest. This must be Davis Police force restraint. I suppose the rest can say they were just following orders. We were planning to going to San Francisco after Christmas Feb 10-26 going out to the Argo museum in yolo county and taking the river train.
I think we will go San Diego instead.

I didn't miss the point, hence my original post, now deleted.


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