Fox Covers the Olympics: Gabby Douglas Has ‘Lost That Jingoistic Feeling’

Keeping the Fox audience dumb and angry
Wingnuts • Views: 35,713

So how is Fox News covering the Olympics?

They’re attacking gymnast Gabby Douglas for not having that “jingoistic feeling” (yes! he really said that!) and not wearing a flag costume with flag pins and a flag hat.

YouTube Video

Somebody should let Tea Party idiot David Webb know that “jingoism” is not generally regarded as a positive quality. Synonyms for jingoism include:

Extreme patriotism, chauvinism, extreme nationalism, xenophobia, flag-waving; hawkishness, militarism, belligerence, bellicosity.

Fox is also attacking tennis maestro Serena Williams in an ugly race-baiting article that’s all over the Fox network, but most notably at their sewer-fest, Fox Nation, where they headlined it:

Serena Does the ‘Crip Walk’ - 2012 Olympics - Fox Nation

What a coincidence, huh? The athletes singled out for character assassination by Fox News just happen to be black females. What are the odds?

Jump to bottom

406 comments
1 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:10:49pm

Fox News, making me actually feel good that NBC is the network covering the Olympics.

2 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:13:56pm

My jaw dropped when that Tea Party moron said she's "lost that jingoistic feeling" -- as if jingoism is a GOOD thing. WTF Fox.

Jingoism synonyms:

extreme patriotism, chauvinism, extreme nationalism, xenophobia, flag-waving; hawkishness, militarism, belligerence, bellicosity.

Yeah! That's what Fox News stands for, all right.

3 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:15:52pm

By jingo!

4 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:17:31pm

Uh, oh, Fox didn't get with Rush Limbaugh today to iron out their talking points. Limbaugh was claiming that "they" (meaning those damned libruls, of course) are attacking Gabby Douglas because of her hair. I have no idea what he's talking about since I haven't seen any attacks or criticisms about Gabby anywhere. My guess is that he made it up.

5 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:18:29pm

I hadn't seen the Serena clip, so I went to YouTube.

The comments on the clip I viewed were straight out of Fox Nation.

Fucking racists. The Williams sisters have more class and talent in one toe than any 50 Fox Nation commenters combined.

6 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:19:10pm

♬ "You've lost that jingo feeling, ohh-oh that jingo feeling..." ♬

7 S'latch  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:19:33pm

We don't want to fight but, by Jingo, if we do,
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too.

8 gwangung  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:20:08pm

re: #4 Sionainn

Not that I saw it, but twitter feeds were mentioning her hair unflatteringly. Have no idea who said it, though.

9 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:21:09pm

It's not the athletes themselves that pick their uniforms/outfits for the gymnastics competition. It's picked by USA Gymnastics. If you have a beef with their outfits/designs, take it up with them - not the individual athletes who kicked ass and won the team all-around.

Seriously though, attacking athletes who can do stuff that 99% of the population can't do? Really? The Chairborne Rangers really have their heads stuck way up there.

10 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:22:00pm

Johnee Jingo.

Youtube Video
11 nines09  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:22:24pm

I really do believe that watching Fox News (what an oxymoron) does cause stupidity, bigotry, hatred, fear, and mindless jingoistic dog whistle babble from too many views. What a (bad) joke of a cable network. And they pull #1.

12 mr.fusion  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:23:09pm

How do you think FOX & Drudge would have handled it had Serena or Gabby tried to accept their medals while wearing a diamond grill?

How many posts do they have over there with Lochte's grill? I'm guessing none

Ryan Lochte's Grill

13 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:23:31pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

My father, a WW2 vet, always used the word "jingoistic" in the exact same sentence as "bulls**t".

Truly pathetic and sickening on the part of FNC. So glad I don't get them here in the Czech Republic. It makes my life so much more pleasant and relaxing.

14 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:24:18pm

The jingo ate mah baby.

//

15 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:26:18pm

Where's Romney's flag pin? Notice he doesn't wear one very often? The one I did see looked like it was defaced (from what others were claiming, it was a GOP elephant?) which goes against the Flag Code. Where's the outrage?

16 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:27:06pm
Extreme patriotism, chauvinism, extreme nationalism, xenophobia, flag-waving; hawkishness, militarism, belligerence, bellicosity.

All these things are good when 'we' do them. //

17 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:27:08pm

These guys probably heard the word used by the left during the Iraq war and decided it must be a good thing.

Funny, since they were pissing and moaning about Libya not too long ago.

18 danarchy  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:27:51pm

re: #15 Sionainn

Where's Romney's flag pin? Notice he doesn't wear one very often? The one I did see looked like it was defaced (from what others were claiming, it was a GOP elephant?) which goes against the Flag Code. Where's the outrage?

You can't expect him to stick a pin through a $4000 dollar lapel!!!

//

19 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:29:45pm

re: #4 Sionainn

Uh, oh, Fox didn't get with Rush Limbaugh today to iron out their talking points. Limbaugh was claiming that "they" (meaning those damned libruls, of course) are attacking Gabby Douglas because of her hair. I have no idea what he's talking about since I haven't seen any attacks or criticisms about Gabby anywhere. My guess is that he made it up.

There were some idiots complaining about Gabby's hair.

20 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:30:34pm

Don't look now but it looks like Donald Trump got bored.

21 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:31:05pm

Faux news today: our olympic stars hate America.

Faux news tomorrow: Let Detroit Go Bankrupt! Repeal Obamacare!

22 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:32:28pm

re: #4 Sionainn

Uh, oh, Fox didn't get with Rush Limbaugh today to iron out their talking points. Limbaugh was claiming that "they" (meaning those damned libruls, of course) are attacking Gabby Douglas because of her hair. I have no idea what he's talking about since I haven't seen any attacks or criticisms about Gabby anywhere. My guess is that he made it up.

They did attack her hair. She responded with, more or less, "Whatever. I have a gold medal."

Actually she said she had just jelled her hair and put it back to get it out of the way. LIKE EVERY OTHER GYMNAST.

23 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:33:02pm

re: #20 Gus

Don't look now but it looks like Donald Trump got bored.

Oh, FFS. What's he plugging now?

24 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:33:36pm

re: #23 makeitstop

Oh, FFS. What's he plugging now?

The nirth certificate!!11ty

25 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:33:50pm

Remember when Jingo used to be something bad?
/

26 Bulworth  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:35:19pm

Faux news: We love America; it's Americans we can't stand.

27 Destro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:35:34pm

I think it is that the right wing base can't stand seeing accomplished blacks unless the black temper that success with some fawning statement to ease the racist sting they feel. I think that is as best as I can tell from the FOX comment sections.

I alos think that is a big reason they hate Obama but embrace Herman Cain type who fawns over them.

That's the best I can figure out.

28 mr.fusion  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:36:17pm

re: #18 danarchy

You can't expect him to stick a pin through a $4000 dollar lapel!!!

//

Youtube Video
29 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:37:03pm

re: #18 danarchy

You can't expect him to stick a pin through a $4000 dollar lapel!!!

//

Stick a pin through the lapel of this, this, this eight thousand dollar suit?

C'mon!

30 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:37:17pm

Way O.T.

Can anyone tell me how to "download" emails from yahoo webmail so that they can be saved to drive or to disk, or even if there is a way. Obviously I could screen capture them one by one but besides taking forever the files would be hugh and non-editable.

I never even thought of doing this until a friend suddenly called me asking how to do it, I had to honestly tell her that I had no clue but would look. After looking I still don't see a way to do it, one would think that at the very least there was a way to copy the HTML files rather than convert them to jpeg.

Hopefully I am just missing something rather obvious and sounding like a newb, I would much prefer a bit of personal embarrassment at this point to finding out that it cannot be done.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance
ausador

31 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:37:18pm

LOL LOL
On the (long since mainstream dance) "Crip Walk"

Putting it in perspective Kevin B. (email deleted)

So @serenawilliams is criticized for dancing crip walk (which most watchers had no clue) at #Olympics that begins with Hitler's torch relay

Social media is really a teaching tool, who knew?

32 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:37:18pm

re: #28 mr.fusion

[Embedded content]

Oh boy howdy, the hivemind is strong today.

33 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:37:31pm

re: #24 Gus

The nirth certificate!!11ty

I meant he usually dredges up the nirther bit when he wants to plug his show or something.

Or maybe, like you said, he's just bored.

34 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:38:09pm

Politifact sinking further into irrelevancy, daily

35 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:38:20pm

They have to pick on Gabby's hair.

You can't possibly pick on her beautiful face.

36 Destro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:40:44pm

re: #22 Mostly sane, most of the time.

They did attack her hair. She responded with, more or less, "Whatever. I have a gold medal."

Actually she said she had just jelled her hair and put it back to get it out of the way. LIKE EVERY OTHER GYMNAST.

---Banging head on table over and over--- We have real problems in America and yet the issue is how an accomplished young Olympian gold medal athlete has her hair done. --- bang - bang - bang.

37 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:41:07pm

re: #34 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

So it's okay for a leading Senator to just make any accusation in the absence of evidence? I am sure to point that out someday when the partisan shoe is on the other foot. It probably won't be long of a wait.

Edit-
Now it seems to be official-Two wrongs make it right. Especially in an election year.

What have we come to for discourse?

38 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:42:33pm

re: #19 Learned Mother of Zion

There were some idiots complaining about Gabby's hair.

Looked like most of those were telling people to knock it off about criticizing Gabby's hair. Wonder how Limbaugh made the leap that anyone criticizing Gabby about her hair is "liberal" and what the fuck does hair have to do with political persuasion.

39 gwangung  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:42:51pm

re: #37 Daniel Ballard

Kinda irrelevant given the main point of discussion: Romney's tax returns. Why is he getting a pass here?

40 Gus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:43:12pm

re: #33 makeitstop

I meant he usually dredges up the nirther bit when he wants to plug his show or something.

Or maybe, like you said, he's just bored.

I see what you mean. Yeah, could be that too.

41 sagehen  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:43:39pm

re: #35 Mostly sane, most of the time.

They have to pick on Gabby's hair.

You can't possibly pick on her beautiful face.

Or her awesome legs!!

Most gymnasts, they get the power leaps for their flips from thighs that look like tree trunks. Gabby's legs look like a runway model.

42 jaunte  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:43:44pm

Jingleism: the tinkling sound you make when your patriotism consists of trinkets worn in profusion on your lapel.

43 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:43:45pm

re: #22 Mostly sane, most of the time.

They did attack her hair. She responded with, more or less, "Whatever. I have a gold medal."

Actually she said she had just jelled her hair and put it back to get it out of the way. LIKE EVERY OTHER GYMNAST.

Who is "they", though?

I like her response.

44 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:43:45pm

re: #37 Daniel Ballard

So it's okay for a leading Senator to just make any accusation in the absence of evidence? I am sure to point that out someday when the partisan shoe is on the other foot. It probably won't be long of a wait.

Do you believe that Reid is lying when he says Bain people were the source of the claims?

45 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:43:46pm

Hmm. Doing a little research, one of the other gymnastic team members isn't white.

She's black, Japanese, Filipino, and Puerto Rican.

What shall we say about her hair?

46 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:44:06pm

re: #37 Daniel Ballard

So it's okay for a leading Senator to just make any accusation in the absence of evidence?

Reid didn't say Romney paid no taxes for 10 years, he said a credible source told him Romney paid no taxes for 10 years. That's his "evidence". We can't see it at the moment to judge it, but all Romney has to do to prove said "credible source" full of shit is release his returns.

As for "shoe being on other foot", there's far more reason to suspect Romney got away with (sadly legal) tax evasion than to question Obama's birth certificate.

47 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:44:10pm

re: #39 gwangung

You call this environment a pass?!

48 nines09  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:44:42pm

re: #20 Gus

Don't look now but it looks like Donald Trump got bored.

I think that was his hair talking.

49 gwangung  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:45:15pm

re: #47 Daniel Ballard

You see 10 years of his tax returns?

50 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:45:57pm

re: #47 Daniel Ballard

You call this environment a pass?!

Absolutely. It should not be left up to the blogosphere to hound Romney on this point. The media in this country is not doing their job, as usual.

51 Sophia77  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:46:08pm

Jeez these people make me sick (FOX et.al.) and I agree, they're probably inciting racism and maybe even violence.

52 Destro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:46:47pm

Tea Party idiot David Webb asks "what is wrong with showing pride".

I thought pride was a sin (in both old new testaments and the unauthorized koran)?

Can the conservative Jesus/god worshipers get their religious dogma straight?

53 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:47:13pm

re: #38 Sionainn

Looked like most of those were telling people to knock it off about criticizing Gabby's hair. Wonder how Limbaugh made the leap that anyone criticizing Gabby about her hair is "liberal" and what the fuck does hair have to do with political persuasion.

Some stupid people were criticizing Gabby Douglas for wearing her hair LIKE EVERY OTHER FEMALE GYMNAST, that is, tightly tied back and gelled down to within an inch of its life, because the last thing they want when they're flipping upside down on the balance beam is hair flopping in their face!

54 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:48:35pm

re: #47 Daniel Ballard

You call this environment a pass?!

Yes. The Corporate Media™ (who happily repeat Breitbart smears without question) have been far too busy clutching their pearls over that brute Harry Reid than to focus on the real issue, namely, Mitt getting away with all kinds of shit.

55 Destro  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:48:51pm

re: #51 Sophia77

I have a need to stop FOX but to do so I have to listen to them and get the real truth and facts out there but it's painful.

I may give up. You win FOX. I can only hope the old people that make up your demographic die off fast when the GOP wins and repeals Social Security and medicare.

56 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:49:08pm

re: #44 erik_t

Thanks for asking. I am not going to mimic Harry Reids wrong by accusing him of lying without evidence to prove it. What I will do is again point out there is plenty of opportunity to point out the lack of disclosures by Mitt without scraping the bottom of the barrel as Harry Reid did.

57 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:49:44pm

re: #53 Learned Mother of Zion

Some stupid people were criticizing Gabby Douglas for wearing her hair LIKE EVERY OTHER FEMALE GYMNAST, that is, tightly tied back and gelled down to within an inch of its life, because the last thing they want when they're flipping upside down on the balance beam is hair flopping in their face!

I was traveling and then setting up my computer in my hotel room yesterday, only to discover the stupid ethernet didn't work. Spent a lot of time messing around with it and must have missed a bunch of stuff yesterday. Thanks for the clarifications (and Emmmie, too).

58 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:51:10pm

re: #56 Daniel Ballard

Thanks for asking. I am not going to mimic Harry Reids wrong by accusing him of lying without evidence to prove it. What I will do is again point out there is plenty of opportunity to point out the lack of disclosures by Mitt without scraping the bottom of the barrel as Harry Reid did.

Quoting a guy anonymously is 'scraping the bottom of the barrel'?

59 jaunte  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:51:44pm

re: #54 Interesting Times

Yes. The Corporate Media™ (who happily repeat Breitbart smears without question) have been far too busy clutching their pearls over that brute Harry Reid than to focus on the real issue, namely, Mitt getting away with all kinds of shit.

No matter what Reid said, it seems highly unusual for a presidential candidate to have so many offshore accounts.

60 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:52:03pm

Romney Persona Non Grata In Italy For Bain’s Deal Skirting Taxes

So, why is Harry Reid wrong?

61 gwangung  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:52:55pm

re: #56 Daniel Ballard

Thanks for asking. I am not going to mimic Harry Reids wrong by accusing him of lying without evidence to prove it. What I will do is again point out there is plenty of opportunity to point out the lack of disclosures by Mitt without scraping the bottom of the barrel as Harry Reid did.

Yes, I'm sure you'd do that. And get to the bottom of the Watergate burglary while you're at it.

(And I'm sure you'll reprove Rep. Bachman and her attacks against Muslims and Sikhs, while you're at it; talk about bottom of the barrrell...)

62 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:53:06pm

re: #56 Daniel Ballard

Thanks for asking. I am not going to mimic Harry Reids wrong by accusing him of lying without evidence to prove it. What I will do is again point out there is plenty of opportunity to point out the lack of disclosures by Mitt without scraping the bottom of the barrel as Harry Reid did.

Do you think there is ever an appropriate time for a member of the media to use a confidential source? Do you think this issue is important for us to hear about?

If your answers are no/yes/yes, then I can't reconcile them with your complaints about Reid without resorting to verbal gymnastics.

63 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:53:54pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

I'll let the WH answer that.

WH Distances Itself From Reid; Carney Says He "Speaks For Himself"

Of course we can look at many years of Harry Reids tax returns right?

64 Mattand  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:54:15pm

re: #37 Daniel Ballard

So it's okay for a leading Senator to just make any accusation in the absence of evidence? I am sure to point that out someday when the partisan shoe is on the other foot. It probably won't be long of a wait.

Edit-
Now it seems to be official-Two wrongs make it right. Especially in an election year.

What have we come to for discourse?

Truth be told, I'm not wild about the Senate majority leader making accusations based on an unnamed source.

Having said that, this is the kind of noxious horseshit Republicans have been plying for years. It's comical to see some conservatives running for the fainting couch now that the Dems are using the same playbook.

Do I like the process? No, but this is how the game is played now. Republicans made this mud pit, and now all of sudden they don't want to get dirty.

And has been repeated multiple times: all Romney has to do is follow his father's precedent and release multi-year tax returns. Mitt had no problem doing it for McCain in the 2008 VP vetting process.

65 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:55:11pm

re: #59 jaunte

No matter what Reid said, it seems highly unusual for a presidential candidate to have so many offshore accounts.

And let's not even mention the $100 million IRA.

66 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:55:43pm

re: #64 Mattand

Truth be told, I'm not wild about the Senate majority leader making accusations based on an unnamed source.

Neither am I, because he shouldn't have to. This isn't supposed to be an issue. It wouldn't be an issue if Romney were willing to follow even the most trivial precedent of honesty and disclosure.

67 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:55:48pm

re: #63 Daniel Ballard

Of course we can look at many years of Harry Reids tax returns right?

Reid isn't running for president. Romney is. But hey, if Romney wants to continue this defensive downward slap-fight, let him keep on dancing :)

68 jaunte  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:56:43pm

re: #66 erik_t

It doesn't give one faith in Romney's ability to foresee, you know, politics.

69 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:57:01pm

re: #63 Daniel Ballard

Of course we can look at many years of Harry Reids tax returns right?

When did Reid announce his presidential candidacy?

Mitt's the one who's gotta pony up here. Not Harry.

70 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:57:59pm

re: #69 makeitstop

When did Reid announce his presidential candidacy?

Mitt's the one who's gotta pony up here. Not Harry.

But, but, but, balance! Fairness! Pearls!

71 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:58:20pm

re: #60 Fred Galt

Romney Persona Non Grata In Italy For Bain’s Deal Skirting Taxes

So, why is Harry Reid wrong?

From your link:

Romney himself probably earned more than $50 million, and possibly as much as $60 million from the Italian directory sale of Seat Pagine Gialle SpA, according to a person familiar with the matter. The deal turned into one of the biggest windfalls of his tenure.

“With this investment, Mitt Romney and Bain Capital, with its consortium partners, partnered with a new management team to transform this company, and grow it into a tremendous success,” said Michele Davis, a spokeswoman for Romney’s presidential campaign. “Mitt Romney is running for President to put that experience to work.”

He's running on his experience of doing this (also from your link):

The sale of the government’s directory business is “a dark chapter in the country’s privatization history, one that has hurt Italians deeply,” said Bernardo Bortolotti, an economics professor at Turin University who advised the Italian Treasury on asset sales from 2002 through 2005. “It was a mistake from the start, damaged by a lack of transparency and the use of offshore funds.”

[...]

Bain funneled profits through subsidiaries in Luxembourg, a common corporate strategy for avoiding income taxes in other European countries, according to documents reviewed by Bloomberg News. The buyer, Italy’s biggest telephone company, now has a total market value less than what it paid Bain and other investors for the directory business.

But that's OK, America will be Bain, the rest of the world will be Italy.

72 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:58:44pm

re: #64 Mattand

Why would we want the dems to stoop as low as the GOP? Is that supposed to persuade me to vote Dem?

Where can I find Harry Reids 12 years of tax form disclosure? Is that online?

73 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:59:13pm

re: #63 Daniel Ballard

I'll let the WH answer that.

WH Distances Itself From Reid; Carney Says He "Speaks For Himself"

Of course we can look at many years of Harry Reids tax returns right?

It's nice of Reid to allow himself to be the bad guy for the White House. Somebody's got to do it.

74 gwangung  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:59:40pm

re: #72 Daniel Ballard

Why are you diverting from the real issue?

75 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:59:42pm

re: #67 Interesting Times

Reid is a Senator, a sufficiently high office to bask in the light of his hypocrisy.

76 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 1:59:58pm

re: #72 Daniel Ballard

Why would we want the dems to stoop as low as the GOP? Is that supposed to persuade me to vote Dem?

Where can I find Harry Reids 12 years of tax form disclosure? Is that online?

There's no established precedent for Senators to release twelve years of tax forms. There is established precedent for those running for POTUS to release twelve years of tax forms.

You probably already knew that. Now you definitely know that. Any repetition of this point on your part will be met with all of the respect it deserves.

77 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:00:36pm
78 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:00:53pm

re: #13 Dr Lizardo

My father, a WW2 vet, always used the word "jingoistic" in the exact same sentence as "bulls**t".

Which is the correct usage of the word. Jingoism isn't a positive quality, or anything to aspire to.

As usual, Faux News are morons.

79 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:01:13pm

re: #62 erik_t

Do you think there is ever an appropriate time for a member of the media to use a confidential source? Do you think this issue is important for us to hear about?

If your answers are no/yes/yes, then I can't reconcile them with your complaints about Reid without resorting to verbal gymnastics.

You're going to be doing gymnastics?

Let's talk about how you're going to do your hair.

80 gwangung  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:01:25pm

re: #72 Daniel Ballard

Why would we want the dems to stoop as low as the GOP? Is that supposed to persuade me to vote Dem?

Where can I find Harry Reids 12 years of tax form disclosure? Is that online?

[Link: ethics.nv.gov...]

Not online, though.

So, where's Romney's returns?

81 Mattand  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:01:40pm

re: #72 Daniel Ballard

Why would we want the dems to stoop as low as the GOP? Is that supposed to persuade me to vote Dem?

Where can I find Harry Reids 12 years of tax form disclosure? Is that online?

I understand what you're saying, but the Democrats have been showing up for years at a gunfight with a spork. Trying to rise above it is partly why they get their asses kicked in many elections.

I'm channeling my inner Maher, but a good chunk of the US voting public is too fucking stupid to vote for the candidate/party who take the high road.

82 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:02:14pm

re: #81 Mattand

I understand what you're saying, but the Democrats have been showing up for years at a gunfight with a spork. Trying to rise above it is partly why they get their asses kicked in may elections.

I'm channeling my inner Maher, but a good chunk of the US voting public is too fucking stupid to vote for the candidate/party who take the high road.

QFT!

83 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:02:44pm
84 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:03:01pm

re: #37 Daniel Ballard

So it's okay for a leading Senator to just make any accusation in the absence of evidence? I am sure to point that out someday when the partisan shoe is on the other foot. It probably won't be long of a wait.

Edit-
Now it seems to be official-Two wrongs make it right. Especially in an election year.

What have we come to for discourse?

No, it's not, but we are in the midst of a race that is is already ugly as sin. Harry has nothing to lose, so he is taking it on himself to become the object of (well deserved) derision for the political expediency of keeping Mitt's missing tax returns in the spotlight.

But don't worry, it's only going to get uglier...

85 iossarian  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:03:27pm

re: #75 Daniel Ballard

Reid is a Senator, a sufficiently high office to bask in the light of his hypocrisy.

There's no hypocrisy here. Reid's been elected. Presumably the voters of Nevada have taken whatever information he's released over the years, or not, into account.

Now he's simply pointing out that the guy running for president is, to all extents and purposes, a tax evader. And the simple fact that Romney still hasn't released his returns, even though this issue is obviously damaging to him, confirms Reid's accusation.

Not sure where the hypocrisy lies.

86 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:03:39pm

re: #22 Mostly sane, most of the time.

They did attack her hair. She responded with, more or less, "Whatever. I have a gold medal."

Actually she said she had just jelled her hair and put it back to get it out of the way. LIKE EVERY OTHER GYMNAST.

The attacks over her hair were so stupid. WTF? Is she supposed to compete in an event with her hair down or in her face?

Idiots, all of them. I'm glad she basically told people to STFU and get the hell over it because that's how she wears her hair during a meet.

87 danarchy  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:04:26pm

re: #41 sagehen

Or her awesome legs!!

Most gymnasts, they get the power leaps for their flips from thighs that look like tree trunks. Gabby's legs look like a runway model.

On another note, I really wish they would have cut it out with the close ups of the toes on the balance beam. Much like ballet dancers, gymnasts do not exactly have the most beautiful feat...

88 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:04:54pm

re: #63 Daniel Ballard

I'll let the WH answer that.

WH Distances Itself From Reid; Carney Says He "Speaks For Himself"

Of course we can look at many years of Harry Reids tax returns right?

Harry is not running for president and it is highly unlikely he is going to run for the Senate again, either...

89 gwangung  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:04:56pm

re: #85 iossarian

There's no hypocrisy here. Reid's been elected. Presumably the voters of Nevada have taken whatever information he's released over the years, or not, into account.

Since there is a disclosure statement, I'm not sure where the hypocrisy is. Illumination, please?

90 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:05:20pm

re: #74 gwangung

If Mitts taxes are the "real issue" I reject the premise of your question. re: #80 gwangung

[Link: ethics.nv.gov...]

Not online.

Means not publicly.

This is exactly why when I left the GOP, I also knew I could not stomach becoming a Democrat. One party acts up all the time the other only half the time. Which is supposed to make them my heroes.

91 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:05:22pm

re: #78 Lidane


Indeed, that's what I was always brought up to believe; jingoism is a very, very bad thing.

On a different note, I'm watching a spectacular thunderstorm from my window. Lightning once every two seconds or so, thunder rolling; quite impressive. I love the thunderstorms here in Central Europe.

92 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:05:40pm

re: #88 Expand Your Ground

Harry is not running for president and it is highly unlikely he is going to run for the Senate again, either...

Indeed. He's got over 5 years to sit there and stir the pot, and it looks like that is what he's going to do.

93 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:06:54pm

re: #92 freetoken

Indeed. He's got over 5 years to sit there and stir the pot, and it looks like that is what he's going to do.

I certainly hope so. Maybe we can get some things accomplished...finally.

94 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:07:24pm

Why does David Webb's rant remind me of the "stan" the manager from this scene of office space?

Youtube Video
95 iossarian  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:07:56pm

re: #90 Daniel Ballard

This is exactly why when I left the GOP, I also knew I could not stomach becoming a Democrat. One party acts up all the time the other only half the time. Which is supposed to make them my heroes.

Look, not voting GOP is already a big step towards sanity, so that's great. But come on, Harry Reid accusing Mitt Romney of dodging taxes, when it's entirely fucking obvious that this is exactly what Romney has done, is hardly "acting up".

96 gwangung  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:08:27pm

re: #90 Daniel Ballard

If Mitts taxes are the "real issue" I reject the premise of your question. re: #80 gwangung

Means not publicly.

Do you not read? That's as public as it goes. You have to wait for a paper copy, but the whole point of the disclosure office is for public examination.

And if you reject the premise, then you miss the point.

97 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:09:04pm

re: #90 Daniel Ballard

If Mitts taxes are the "real issue" I reject the premise of your question. re: #80 gwangung

Means not publicly.

This is exactly why when I left the GOP, I also knew I could not stomach becoming a Democrat. One party acts up all the time the other only half the time. Which is supposed to make them my heroes.

They don't have to be your heroes. They only have to be the party that keeps the racist kleptomaniacs out of office. When they fail at that, I'll change my registration, or change the party.

I actually tried to change the local Repubs. They went full-bore Tea Party. I will now support those most likely to defeat them. They are not heroes, but they are the best we've got to keep the worst we've got away from the levers of power. I'm now proud to be one of 'em.

98 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:10:42pm

re: #95 iossarian

Look, not voting GOP is already a big step towards sanity, so that's great. But come on, Harry Reid accusing Mitt Romney of dodging taxes, when it's entirely fucking obvious that this is exactly what Romney has done, is hardly "acting up".

Taken on its own, it is ethically contemptible. Taken inte context of the current campaign it is only slightly sleazy.

And they certainly weighed the pros and cons of this and decided that it was worth it to keep the issue alive.

Just as Romney weighed the pros and cons of releasing his tax returns and decided not to, hoping the issue would fade away.

99 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:11:09pm

re: #89 gwangung

Harry, and other leading Dems decline to put up their returns where we can see them. The fact that they are in the legislature in charge of the budget tells me they should have disclosure pressures no less than the executive.

Screw all this debate, I'll say this. Disclosing tax returns should be a legal requirement of anyone who wants to run for high national office. Or be on the cabinet.

Unprovable public accusations should be met with censure.

Those who have disclosed have a moral and practical advantage, but since we now see how far some will go to apply pressure I see we need the law. Maybe Harry would sponsor such a law, along with Nancy Pelosi in the house?

100 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:11:47pm

re: #60 Fred Galt

Romney Persona Non Grata In Italy For Bain’s Deal Skirting Taxes

So, why is Harry Reid wrong?

You gonna Page that, Fred? Somebody should.

101 gwangung  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:12:00pm

re: #99 Daniel Ballard

Harry, and other leading Dems decline to put up their returns where we can see them. The fact that they are in the legislature in charge of the budget tells me they should have disclosure pressures no less than the executive.

Screw all this debate, I'll say this. Disclosing tax returns should be a legal requirement of anyone who wants to run for high national office. Or be on the cabinet.

Unprovable public accusations should be met with censure.

Those who have disclosed have a moral and practical advantage, but since we now see how far some will go to apply pressure I see we need the law. Maybe Harry would sponsor such a law, along with Nancy Pelosi in the house?

This is a bullshit argument BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO DAMN LAZY TO DO THE WORK.

Screw you. You're not worth debating.

102 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:13:15pm

re: #99 Daniel Ballard

Disclosing tax returns should be a legal requirement of anyone who wants to run for high national office. Or be on the cabinet.

Unprovable public accusations should be met with censure.

We have the right not to vote for people who withhold their records or make unproveable accusations. That is what the Right to Vote is all about.

Mitt has made a tactical decission to withhold his records. Harry is just making him sweat under his starched collar for doing so.

103 iossarian  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:13:29pm

re: #99 Daniel Ballard

Unprovable public accusations should be met with censure.

This accusation is very easily disprovable and Romney is doing absolutely nothing to do so.

That tells me everything I need to know.

Furthermore it's already abundantly clear that Romney circumvented the restrictions on retirement account contributions. The guy is a tax cheat.

104 Mattand  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:13:38pm

re: #90 Daniel Ballard

If Mitts taxes are the "real issue" I reject the premise of your question. re: #80 gwangung

Means not publicly.

This is exactly why when I left the GOP, I also knew I could not stomach becoming a Democrat. One party acts up all the time the other only half the time. Which is supposed to make them my heroes.

Tax inequality in America was an issue long before Harry Reid jumped in.

Mitt Romney, a multi-millionaire, wants to be president. As President, his financial plans include adjusting taxes so the rich pay even less than they do now.

Romney is asking the American voter to trust him when he says he pays his fair share, based on the 2 years of returns he's allowing to be released.

Fuck. That. His statements are worthless unless he backs that up with evidence.

105 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:14:09pm

re: #95 iossarian

Is using the existing legal loopholes dodging taxes? Or is that phrase really supposed to be about about illegal hiding of income and fraudulent write offs?

Exactly which loopholes are acceptable? Which are not? Am I a tax evader for writing off my home office? Or if I defer some income past December?

106 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:14:54pm

re: #101 gwangung

This is a bullshit argument BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO DAMN LAZY TO DO THE WORK.

Screw you. You're not worth debating.

Same to ya.

107 jaunte  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:15:16pm

re: #104 Mattand

As President, his financial plans include adjusting taxes so the rich pay even less than they do now.

That's the thing.

108 iossarian  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:15:42pm

re: #105 Daniel Ballard

Is using the existing legal loopholes dodging taxes? Or is that phrase really supposed to be about about illegal hiding of income and fraudulent write offs?

Exactly which loopholes are acceptable? Which are not? Am I a tax evader for writing off my home office? Or if I defer some income past December?

Suddenly having a retirement account worth hundreds of millions of dollars based on fraudulently undervalued stock is tax evasion.

That investment was, I can only assume, not available to the peons further down the totem pole at Bain. Ever wonder why those peons aren't leaping forward to defend Romney?

109 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:15:45pm

re: #105 Daniel Ballard

Is using the existing legal loopholes dodging taxes? Or is that phrase really supposed to be about about illegal hiding of income and fraudulent write offs?

Exactly which loopholes are acceptable? Which are not? Am I a tax evader for writing off my home office? Or if I defer some income past December?

You are not running for president.

It is not a matter of criminal actions or intent, it is a matter of whether or not he is to be entrusted with the highest office in the land.

110 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:15:52pm

re: #104 Mattand

Fuck. That. His statements are worthless unless he backs that up with evidence.

Either that cuts both ways or it's just partisan pandering.

111 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:16:28pm

re: #101 gwangung

This is a bullshit argument BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO DAMN LAZY TO DO THE WORK.

Screw you. You're not worth debating.

Now, now. He can be frustrating as heck, but he's more worth debating than many. Unless he skips my #97, then I'll join you.

112 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:17:10pm

Mitt made the initial claim that he "paid a lot of taxes". Harry is calling him out on that claim. Who is the one with the bigger burden of proof?

113 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:17:14pm

re: #100 wrenchwench

I know I've been here for a little while, but how do you post a page? That said, I'd be happy if anyone wants to make a page out of it.

114 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:17:25pm

re: #105 Daniel Ballard

Is using the existing legal loopholes dodging taxes? Or is that phrase really supposed to be about about illegal hiding of income and fraudulent write offs?

Exactly which loopholes are acceptable? Which are not? Am I a tax evader for writing off my home office? Or if I defer some income past December?

Yea, but people like Romney use their power to get the tax laws written to benefit them.

115 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:18:29pm

re: #113 Fred Galt

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

116 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:18:42pm

In many cases, it is a matter of tax laws ostensibly written to benefit the middle class, but which manage to disproportionately benefit the 1%.

117 iossarian  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:18:58pm

re: #114 aagcobb

Yea, but people like Romney use their power to get the tax laws written to benefit them.

This is true, and even so there's the fact that Romney quite possibly committed fraud by undervaluing his contributions to his retirement account.

Maybe he's interested in some "retroactive" legislation here.

118 Mattand  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:19:35pm

re: #110 Daniel Ballard

Either that cuts both ways or it's just partisan pandering.

You are absolutely right. However, as I said in my first sentence in # 104:

Tax inequality in America was an issue long before Harry Reid jumped in.

If Romney had followed the precedent in Presidential nominations set by his own freaking father, he could have put this issue to rest.

119 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:20:34pm

re: #99 Daniel Ballard

Unprovable public accusations should be met with censure.

Mitt Romney can disprove Reid's claim very easily, he can be a mensch and release the tax returns. The fact that a so-called fact checking organization claimed that what Reid said was a "pants on fire" lie when there's no evidence one way or the other is just plain laughable.

120 danarchy  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:21:04pm

re: #80 gwangung

[Link: ethics.nv.gov...]

Not online, though.

So, where's Romney's returns?

I can't find anything about Tax returns on this site? I see Fanancial disclosure statements which are different than tax returns. Am I just missing it somewhere?

121 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:21:56pm

re: #113 Fred Galt

I know I've been here for a little while, but how do you post a page? That said, I'd be happy if anyone wants to make a page out of it.

You should do it. The first one takes some time, after that they flow like water.

The way that's easier to explain, but harder to do is to go up to the top right corner of this page and click on "LGF Pages", then click on
Create a Page" and fill in the blanks. The way that takes longer to learn, but ends up being easier than buttering toast is to look a little lower than the "Create a Page" button for "How to use the Bookmarklet", or just click here and start reading. Like Freetoken said.

122 labman57  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:22:11pm

Well thank goodness Serena didn't give anyone a terrorist fist bump.

More petty attacks from Team "Fair and Balanced" -- on a par with Palin insisting that she is more patriotic than most pundits because she wears an American flag lapel pin.

Yet another low mark in the shallow cesspool of superficiality and self-righteous indignation known as FOX News.

123 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:23:19pm

re: #63 Daniel Ballard

I'll let the WH answer that.

WH Distances Itself From Reid; Carney Says He "Speaks For Himself"

Of course we can look at many years of Harry Reids tax returns right?

When he runs for Prez, you got it. As for representing his state, that is up to the state election board to decide.

124 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:24:01pm

re: #97 wrenchwench

I'm not voting for Romney, and if Harry was my senator he would have never enjoyed having my vote. What I am trying to speak to here ( a Little difficult in a left leaning audience) is a smarter more effective discourse on this subject.

Harry has backfired, hurt the cause of Obamas re election by providing a distraction for the GOP. Nice work there. (Not)

125 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:24:07pm

By the way Charles, when I go to LGF Pages, the pull down menus at the top are all ajumble.

126 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:24:36pm

re: #105 Daniel Ballard

Is using the existing legal loopholes dodging taxes? Or is that phrase really supposed to be about about illegal hiding of income and fraudulent write offs?

Exactly which loopholes are acceptable? Which are not? Am I a tax evader for writing off my home office? Or if I defer some income past December?

Explain how he's got an IRA - into which he's supposed to be limited to $6,000 per year - that's worth $100 million dollars.

He won't, and that casts a stink over all his financials as far as I'm concerned.

If he's not a tax cheat, let him prove it. It's really that simple.

127 Mattand  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:25:34pm

Back on the main post topic: I'm sure someone covered this already, but the fucking morons at Fox News are picking on a 16 year old.

I'm may tweet this fact. My Twitter account is tied into my FB account. It's sure to rankle at least one conservative there.

128 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:26:47pm

re: #124 Daniel Ballard

I'm not voting for Romney, and I Harry was my senator he would have never enjoyed having my vote. What I am trying to speak to here ( a Little difficult in a left leaning audience) is a smarter more effective discourse on this subject.

Harry has backfired, hurt the cause of Obamas re election by providing a distraction for the GOP. Nice work there. (Not)

Distraction in what way? The subject is still Romney's tax records, the question not is whether Reid's lying out his ass or Romney is.

129 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:27:21pm

re: #124 Daniel Ballard

Harry has backfired, hurt the cause of Obamas re election by providing a distraction for the GOP. Nice work there. (Not)

It was a highly calculated move: Harry knew darn well that he would take a lot of flak for it, but it was decided at a high level that it was worth it to serve the purpose of keeping the spotlight on Mitt's AWOL tax returns.

Mitt also make a decision, deciding that the splatterfest surrounding his tax returns was too risky, and he hoped that the topic would just be swept away by the next 24-hour news cycle.

Harry is making him regret that decision.

Politics is ugly.

130 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:27:40pm

re: #124 Daniel Ballard

I'm not voting for Romney, and I Harry was my senator he would have never enjoyed having my vote. What I am trying to speak to here ( a Little difficult in a left leaning audience) is a smarter more effective discourse on this subject.

Harry has backfired, hurt the cause of Obamas re election by providing a distraction for the GOP. Nice work there. (Not)

Now you're talking strategy. I was trying to say that the Democrats don't have to be your heroes for you to throw in with them. Withholding your support from the Republicans is a start, but they are dangerous enough that I would encourage you to do more. Not voting for Romney is good, but we need you to vote for Obama.

And I think you're wrong about the effect Reid has had. The tactic may be somewhat underhanded, but he has hurt Romney by using it.

131 funky chicken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:28:11pm

re: #124 Daniel Ballard

I'm not voting for Romney, and I Harry was my senator he would have never enjoyed having my vote. What I am trying to speak to here ( a Little difficult in a left leaning audience) is a smarter more effective discourse on this subject.

Harry has backfired, hurt the cause of Obamas re election by providing a distraction for the GOP. Nice work there. (Not)

The choice last time was Sharron Angle vs Harry Reid. I'm afraid I would have had to go for Reid if I'd voted there, but it wouldn't have made me super happy. That said, the tax accusation has made me chuckle a bit, and I don't think it hurts Obama much, especially with blue collar voters.

132 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:28:28pm

re: #126 makeitstop

See why Harry's accusations are so unnecessary? Because of real facts already available. No need to go all unsubstantiated is there?

133 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:29:17pm

re: #86 Lidane

The attacks over her hair were so stupid. WTF? Is she supposed to compete in an event with her hair down or in her face?

Idiots, all of them. I'm glad she basically told people to STFU and get the hell over it because that's how she wears her hair during a meet.

Yeah, she gave them the old "Here, you can use my phone to call someone who gives a fuck. Because you have obviously mistaken me for someone who does."

134 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:30:13pm

re: #130 wrenchwench

In my first paragraph I'm not talking strategy. I'm pointing out what we should be demanding from our political parties.

135 danarchy  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:30:38pm

re: #108 iossarian

Suddenly having a retirement account worth hundreds of millions of dollars based on fraudulently undervalued stock is tax evasion.

That investment was, I can only assume, not available to the peons further down the totem pole at Bain. Ever wonder why those peons aren't leaping forward to defend Romney?

Actually I seam to recall reading that bain made these IRA investments available to all of their employees by letting them invest in deals that bain was working on. One such deal netted all employees who participated a 1000 fold return on their investment.

136 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:30:55pm

re: #132 Daniel Ballard

See why Harry's accusations are so unnecessary? Because of real facts already available. No need to go all unsubstantiated is there?

The real facts aren't available. Mitt could easily rectify this.

137 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:31:10pm

re: #132 Daniel Ballard

See why Harry's accusations are so unnecessary? Because of real facts already available. No need to go all unsubstantiated is there?

It serves its purpose.

Harry is, simply put, trolling the GOP. And those dumb bastards just keep falling for it.

As others have mentioned, this would have faded away had Reid not thrown the first quote out there. Team Romney was stupid enough to take the bait, and they're paying for it.

138 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:31:32pm

re: #132 Daniel Ballard

See why Harry's accusations are so unnecessary? Because of real facts already available. No need to go all unsubstantiated is there?

all political posturing: it is a matter of keeping the heat on. just because facts are out there does not mean they are being rubbed in our faces...and that is what this campaign is all about.

if you are complaining now about the level of discourse, then maybe you should go on an extended overseas vacation until november, it's only gonna get worse...

139 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:31:58pm

re: #136 erik_t

The real facts aren't available. Mitt could easily rectify this.

Yeah, this.

It would be very, very easy to knock Reid down a few pegs if he was lying. Just release the tax returns. Voila! Problem solved.

140 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:33:06pm

The USA vs. Canada women's game that just ended, fucking epic level soccer from beginning to end. 4-3, with the last goal scored on a header in the extra minutes of the second overtime.

141 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:33:34pm

Just pretend that Mitt is a native-born Mexican American in Arizona at a traffic stop and Harry Reid is a sheriff's deputy simply asking him to show his papers...

142 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:33:46pm

All I know is if Mitt is willing to take this type of beating rather than release his returns, they're gotta be something really stinky in there. Like 'disqualified from running for prez' stinky or 'losing in a landslide' stinky.

143 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:34:02pm

re: #137 makeitstop

It serves its purpose.

Harry is, simply put, trolling the GOP. And those dumb bastards just keep falling for it.

Seriously.

Harry Reid got chosen to be the attack dog. What does he have to lose? His Senate seat? The GOP put him up against Sharron Angle, for fuck's sake. Even people who hate him on principle in Nevada ended up voting for him to avoid her.

He's trolling the GOP and working to piss Mitt off and to keep the story of his tax returns alive, and it's working. If Romney HQ had just released the returns from the beginning to prove that Reid was wrong, this wouldn't be a story still.

144 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:34:10pm

re: #134 Daniel Ballard

In my first paragraph I'm not talking strategy. I'm pointing out what we should be demanding from our political parties.

"Smarter more effective discourse" is impossible with a stonewalling opponent, such as Mr. Romney. "Trust me" is not something we can discourse about.

145 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:34:59pm

re: #140 goddamnedfrank

The USA vs. Canada women's game that just ended, fucking epic level soccer from beginning to end. 4-3, with the last goal scored on a header in the extra minutes of the second overtime.

What were they wearing? How did they do their hair?

146 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:35:58pm

re: #144 wrenchwench

"Smarter more effective discourse" is impossible with a stonewalling opponent, such as Mr. Romney. "Trust me" is not something we can discourse about.

Especially considering the last time they said 'trust me' it turned out to be a complete lie.

147 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:36:49pm

LOL.

Both Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) and Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus came out swinging against Reid on Sunday over his claims about Romney potentially not paying taxes. Asked to respond to Priebus calling Reid "a dirty liar" over the situation, Pelosi initially responded, "Who?"

148 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:37:15pm

re: #146 Varek Raith

Especially considering the last time they said 'trust me' it turned out to be a complete lie.

Yellow cake! WMD! Iraq was involved in 9/11!


///

149 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:37:51pm

re: #147 erik_t

LOL.

Pelosi and Reid seem determined to just piss Republicans off.

I dig this.

150 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:38:10pm

re: #147 erik_t

LOL.

If they said "Rinsed Prius" she would have gotten it.

151 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:39:06pm

re: #149 makeitstop

Pelosi and Reid seem determined to just piss Republicans off.

I dig this.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Hehe.

152 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:39:36pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

By the way Charles, when I go to LGF Pages, the pull down menus at the top are all ajumble.

Mmf. Firefox is becoming almost as big of a pain in the neck as Internet Explorer - it wants to make those fonts much bigger than they're supposed to be.

Should be OK now.

153 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:43:11pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

Mmf. Firefox is becoming almost as big of a pain in the neck as Internet Explorer - it wants to make those fonts much bigger than they're supposed to be.

Should be OK now.

Improved, but 'date' is stuck underneath 'sort'. I'm also using that gdipp thingy that makes the fonts look nicer, but it didn't change anything when I shut it off.

154 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:43:30pm

Pants on fire
Says Mitt Romney did not pay taxes for 10 years.
Of course it's a bald faced lie but how likely is it? Not very...

Still, we wondered how likely it was that Romney didn’t pay taxes for 10 years.

In an Internal Revenue Service study of nearly 4 million 2009 tax returns of filers reporting more than $200,000 in adjusted gross income, 20,752 of these taxpayers -- or just 0.529 percent -- had no U.S. income tax liability. About half of those did have income tax liability in other countries.

But Romney’s recent income has been substantially higher than $200,000, meaning that the size of his deductions and credits would need to be even larger than for many of those included in this IRS study if his tax liability was going to fall to zero. According to the one full return he’s released, for tax year 2010, he and his wife Ann reported an adjusted gross income of $21.6 million and paid taxes of about $3 million. He's also released an estimate of his 2011 taxes, which showed income of $20.9 million and a tax payment of $3.2 million.

To gauge tax patterns for even higher-income earners, the best we can do is to look at another IRS study detailing the taxes paid by the top 400 earners in the nation in 2008. To make this list, you would have to have earned roughly $109 million that year. Among those 400 top taxpayers, 30 -- or 7.5 percent -- had an effective tax rate of between 0 and 10 percent. Given how the statistics are calculated, it’s impossible to know how many paid no taxes, but it’s safe to assume it’s well below 7.5 percent.

Neither study directly addresses Romney’s situation -- he falls somewhere in the middle of the two studies -- but the data does show that for earners both below and above him, it's unlikely they paid zero taxes for one year, and it’s even more far-fetched to think they did so for 10 years.

Salon.com -- which is generally considered a liberal media outlet, thus no friend to Romney -- asked two tax experts whether they thought it was likely that Romney paid no taxes for 10 years. They concluded, "probably not."

The article quoted David Miller, a tax attorney with the firm Cadwalader, Wickersham & Taft in New York, saying it’s "highly unlikely" that he paid nothing.

155 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:43:56pm

Fox Nation

"Fox", in this context, can be understood to mean "White Power"

or at least that's what its commenters seem to think it means...

156 BongCrodny  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:44:25pm

re: #140 goddamnedfrank

The USA vs. Canada women's game that just ended, fucking epic level soccer from beginning to end. 4-3, with the last goal scored on a header in the extra minutes of the second overtime.

Get to the important part. Were they wearing their flag pins?

157 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:44:42pm

re: #145 wrenchwench

What were they wearing? How did they do their hair?

Seriously. If you have or know anybody who gets the Olympic Soccer Channel I highly recommend recording the whole game when it's rerun.

Finally in the 54th minute it paid off. Rapinoe curled her corner kick just around the post and with Rachel Buelher in front of the goal occupying a defender and the goalkeeper, the ball was able to just barely get across the line. The ball deflected off of a defender and found the net amid a scrum inside the net, but by that point that ball had already crossed the line and Rapinoe had herself the unbelievably rare Olympic Olimpico to get the U.S. even.

FYI when Megan Rapinoe isn't bending it like Beckham she's a sexy lesbian ninja undermining the fabric of society.

158 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:44:52pm

I trust my tea leaves more than I trust Politifact.

159 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:45:06pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

And let me express my appreciation for the improved date selector thingies on the search page. Very nice!

160 labman57  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:45:23pm

Leave it to a FOX News analyst to suggest that "jingoism" is a positive character attribute and laments its absence during the Olympic games.

161 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:46:34pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

My jaw dropped when that Tea Party moron said she's "lost that jingoistic feeling" -- as if jingoism is a GOOD thing. WTF Fox.

Jingoism synonyms:

Yeah! That's what Fox News stands for, all right.

Reminds me of the Adrian Mole Diaries, during the Falkland War. "My grandma has a funny look in her eyes. My mother says it is called Jingoism, but I fear it may be the beginning of cataracts."

(This is after his grandmother has examined all the tinned beef in his parents' home to make sure there is none from Argentina.)

162 kirkspencer  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:47:01pm

I'm failing to recall the specific quote, but it goes something like:

"I don't believe he's a pedophile. I just want to make him defend it in public."

For that matter, Romney's got a problem Heinlein threw into one of his books.

A political opponent has a weakness - something he's done or an aspect that's undesirable, that he'd rather have buried. Exaggerate it for the press. The opponent will most frequently fall for this and fight to defend it with the truth even though that truth is unpalatable.

So Romney has a tax rate that's half that of the middle class or about 90% of the voters. Reid says "It was zero some years."

Romney's got a quandary: leave it stand, or remind everyone of the ugly that really exists.

And eventually, provided he's shown to be wrong, Reid can 'apologize' - reminding everyone AGAIN of 15%.

163 JamesWI  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:47:54pm

Meanwhile, while people are "defending" Mitt from what that mean old Harry Reid said, we have Romney himself continuing to blatantly lie about the lawsuit in Ohio and claim Obama's trying to take away voting rights from the military.

But let's bitch about Harry Reid some more.

164 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:48:16pm

re: #4 Sionainn

Uh, oh, Fox didn't get with Rush Limbaugh today to iron out their talking points. Limbaugh was claiming that "they" (meaning those damned libruls, of course) are attacking Gabby Douglas because of her hair. I have no idea what he's talking about since I haven't seen any attacks or criticisms about Gabby anywhere. My guess is that he made it up.

There were some bitchy tweets about her hair, from people no one has ever heard of, after she started winning.

The entire Internet then united to tell them to fuck off, and back off Gabby AND her hair.

165 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:49:07pm

re: #154 Killgore Trout

Pants on fire
Says Mitt Romney did not pay taxes for 10 years.
Of course it's a bald faced lie but how likely is it? Not very...

'Not very likely' is a very far distance from 'baldfaced lie'. In fact, on the basis of what your excerpt of that article says, I would say, 'entirely possible'.

166 philosophus invidius  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:49:10pm

... from the Fox Nation comments on Serena: 80% of comments are of the form: you can take the [euphemism] out of the ghetto, etc.

167 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:49:23pm

re: #162 kirkspencer

Indeed. I think that it is just a case, here, of Reid wanting attention, but it does serve a useful purpose in the big picture.

The reality is this: Mitt Romney has become fabulously wealthy by vampire capitalism, and by exploiting a US taxcode that favors the very wealthy.

And when all this Reid stuff clears out, the above will remain.

168 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:49:41pm

re: #124 Daniel Ballard

I'm not voting for Romney, and if Harry was my senator he would have never enjoyed having my vote. What I am trying to speak to here ( a Little difficult in a left leaning audience) is a smarter more effective discourse on this subject.

Harry has backfired, hurt the cause of Obamas re election by providing a distraction for the GOP. Nice work there. (Not)

So Sharron Angle would have gotten your vote?

I voted for Harry Reid, as I do every time he runs for office, because he votes the way I want him to on darn near everything. I think he is doing the best he can for the people of Nevada and the people of the United States, something that I can't say for any GOP congresscritter.

169 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:49:44pm

re: #163 JamesWI

But let's bitch about Harry Reid some more.

Yeah, let's get some non-partisan fact-checkers up in here!
/

170 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:50:11pm

re: #22 Mostly sane, most of the time.

They did attack her hair. She responded with, more or less, "Whatever. I have a gold medal."

Actually she said she had just jelled her hair and put it back to get it out of the way. LIKE EVERY OTHER GYMNAST.

No idea what the begrudgers wanted. Some of them said she had a responsibility to have different hair, as a black woman athlete. I envisioned elaborate beaded braids, with which she could blind herself whipping around the uneven bars.

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:51:08pm

re: #38 Sionainn

Looked like most of those were telling people to knock it off about criticizing Gabby's hair. Wonder how Limbaugh made the leap that anyone criticizing Gabby about her hair is "liberal" and what the fuck does hair have to do with political persuasion.

I like Andrea Marcott's comment: "If you are going to complain about Gabby Douglas' hair, you should be OK with her coming around to critique your muscle tone."

172 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:51:54pm

re: #157 goddamnedfrank

Seriously. If you have or know anybody who gets the Olympic Soccer Channel I highly recommend recording the whole game when it's rerun.

[quoted material snipped]

FYI when Megan Rapinoe isn't bending it like Beckham she's a sexy lesbian ninja undermining the fabric of society.

Is there going to be a movie?

173 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:51:58pm

re: #162 kirkspencer

I'm failing to recall the specific quote, but it goes something like:

"I don't believe he's a pedophile. I just want to make him defend it in public."

For that matter, Romney's got a problem Heinlein threw into one of his books.

A political opponent has a weakness - something he's done or an aspect that's undesirable, that he'd rather have buried. Exaggerate it for the press. The opponent will most frequently fall for this and fight to defend it with the truth even though that truth is unpalatable.

So Romney has a tax rate that's half that of the middle class or about 90% of the voters. Reid says "It was zero some years."

Romney's got a quandary: leave it stand, or remind everyone of the ugly that really exists.

And eventually, provided he's shown to be wrong, Reid can 'apologize' - reminding everyone AGAIN of 15%.

They could have made a reasonable case about the low tax rate he actually paid but instead decided to piss away their credibility on wild accusations which nobody believes and distracts from real facts that could have done damage. It remains to be seen how this will play out with the public but many people, like myself just tune it out. The continued dishonest allegations, like the nonsense about Bain, just means I don't pay attention to future allegations from known liars and political activists. They've squandered their credibility and join Fox news as scroll over nonsense.

174 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:52:50pm

re: #41 sagehen

Or her awesome legs!!

Most gymnasts, they get the power leaps for their flips from thighs that look like tree trunks. Gabby's legs look like a runway model.

Runway supermodels and Olympic gymnastic champions are mutually exclusive non-intersecting sets.

175 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:53:19pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

Ironically, I'm pondering whether or not you actually believe any of that.

176 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:53:28pm

re: #170 SanFranciscoZionist

No idea what the begrudgers wanted.

If we can be honest with ourselves for a second, this would have been awesome.

177 Sionainn  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:53:55pm

re: #143 Lidane

Seriously.

Harry Reid got chosen to be the attack dog. What does he have to lose? His Senate seat? The GOP put him up against Sharron Angle, for fuck's sake. Even people who hate him on principle in Nevada ended up voting for him to avoid her.

He's trolling the GOP and working to piss Mitt off and to keep the story of his tax returns alive, and it's working. If Romney HQ had just released the returns from the beginning to prove that Reid was wrong, this wouldn't be a story still.

Yep, and then they could have spent all this time calling Harry Reid a liar and it would be true. Right now? Eh, not so much.

178 JamesWI  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:54:01pm

Meanwhile, Politifact merely rates Romney campaigns statements about the lawsuit in Ohio as "false."

While giving Reid a "pants on fire" for something because it's "not likely."

Yeah, completely objective over there......

179 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:54:36pm

re: #165 wrenchwench

'Not very likely' is a very far distance from 'baldfaced lie'. In fact, on the basis of what your excerpt of that article says, I would say, 'entirely possible'.

Those stats are for one year returns. The chances he paid no taxes for ten years are astronomical. It's an absurd claim.

180 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:54:44pm

re: #166 philosophus invidius

... from the Fox Nation comments on Serena: 80% of comments are of the form: you can take the [euphemism] out of the ghetto, etc.

i blame it on the pervasiveness of euphemisms in american colloquial speech

181 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:55:20pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Those stats are for one year returns. The chances he paid no taxes for ten years are astronomical. It's an absurd claim.

Because there's obviously no year-to-year correlation.

/^inf

182 BongCrodny  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:55:50pm

re: #154 Killgore Trout

I'd like to highlight the important parts of this story, if I might:

Still, we wondered how likely it was that Romney didn’t pay taxes for 10 years.

In an Internal Revenue Service study of nearly 4 million 2009 tax returns of filers reporting more than $200,000 in adjusted gross income, 20,752 of these taxpayers -- or just 0.529 percent -- had no U.S. income tax liability. About half of those did have income tax liability in other countries.

But Romney’s recent income has been substantially higher than $200,000, meaning that the size of his deductions and credits would need to be even larger than for many of those included in this IRS study if his tax liability was going to fall to zero. According to the one full return he’s released, for tax year 2010, he and his wife Ann reported an adjusted gross income of $21.6 million and paid taxes of about $3 million. He's also released an estimate of his 2011 taxes, which showed income of $20.9 million and a tax payment of $3.2 million.

To gauge tax patterns for even higher-income earners, the best we can do is to look at another IRS study detailing the taxes paid by the top 400 earners in the nation in 2008. To make this list, you would have to have earned roughly $109 million that year. Among those 400 top taxpayers, 30 -- or 7.5 percent -- had an effective tax rate of between 0 and 10 percent. Given how the statistics are calculated, it’s impossible to know how many paid no taxes, but it’s safe to assume it’s well below 7.5 percent.

Neither study directly addresses Romney’s situation -- he falls somewhere in the middle of the two studies -- but the data does show that for earners both below and above him, it's unlikely they paid zero taxes for one year, and it’s even more far-fetched to think they did so for 10 years.

There's a hell of a lot of conjecture in that Politifact.

183 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:55:54pm

re: #154 Killgore Trout

The most interesting part of that is this:

In an Internal Revenue Service study of nearly 4 million 2009 tax returns of filers reporting more than $200,000 in adjusted gross income, 20,752 of these taxpayers -- or just 0.529 percent -- had no U.S. income tax liability. About half of those did have income tax liability in other countries.

Maybe Romney paid "LOT OF TAXES" to other countries! That would be a major non-release motivator.

184 Mattand  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:56:12pm

One more thing about Gabby Douglas: Fox would not be picking on her if she was white.

Yeah, I went there. No apologies.

185 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:56:29pm

re: #174 Learned Mother of Zion

Runway supermodels and Olympic gymnastic champions are mutually exclusive non-intersecting sets.

Gabby's four foot eleven.

She looks taller. Gorgeous proportions.

186 Interesting Times  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:57:11pm

"I'm so concerned about Harry"...oh wait:

187 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:57:34pm

re: #176 goddamnedfrank

If we can be honest with ourselves for a second, this would have been awesome.

Looks...aerodynamic.

(I look at that, and think of the hours, and hours of work that went into producing...that.)

188 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:57:57pm

re: #144 wrenchwench

"Smarter more effective discourse" is impossible with a stonewalling opponent, such as Mr. Romney. "Trust me" is not something we can discourse about.

I disagree. The GOP strategy & it's candidate are very vulnerable. The TP Republicans are going to vote Mitt no matter what is said or proven at this point. The conservative southern Dems are going to split, many wanting to have little to do with this yankee. The answer to trust me is just no. And run like an Olympic sprinter with the facts of the non disclosures and the proven lies, which abound with the Mitt.

There are good tactics to deal with the stone wall of non disclosure and lies. Mostly just old youtubes of Mitt! But then the pros can dig in and really make hay, without anonymously sourced accusations.

189 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:58:26pm

re: #178 JamesWI

Meanwhile, Politifact merely rates Romney campaigns statements about the lawsuit in Ohio as "false."

While giving Reid a "pants on fire" for something because it's "not likely."

Yeah, completely objective over there......

Yeah, their 'non-partisan' status is taking a self-inflicted beating.

190 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:58:26pm

re: #176 goddamnedfrank

If we can be honest with ourselves for a second, this would have been awesome.

Will the USAF hire her as a drone pilot or as a drone?

191 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 2:59:28pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Those stats are for one year returns. The chances he paid no taxes for ten years are astronomical. It's an absurd claim.

He's at an astronomical level of income, compared with the rest of America. When the 1% get together, he's still in the 1%. If any wealthy individuals paid no taxes (which your link confirms) it's probably the 1% of the 1%.

192 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:00:33pm

I won't watch the crap, but what has Gabby ostensibly done to upset them? She didn't pick the outfits for the team. They all dress alike, in the same leotards and jackets and whatnot. She even praised God extensively after her win. Is there something that's bothering them about this girl and her behavior, except for the obvious issue that she's black, y'all?

193 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:00:55pm

re: #178 JamesWI

Meanwhile, Politifact merely rates Romney campaigns statements about the lawsuit in Ohio as "false."

While giving Reid a "pants on fire" for something because it's "not likely."

Yeah, completely objective over there......

But but but KT LIKES them so they must be MBF approved!?!?!? ///

194 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:01:29pm

re: #190 Expand Your Ground

Will the USAF hire her as a drone pilot or as a drone?

Depends. Can the hair get the girl off the ground? She doesn't look very heavy, luckily.

195 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:02:36pm

Yeah, this just about sums it up for me.

196 katarac  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:02:37pm

Well, that IS a crip walk. I mean, you can take that how you want. It is just a dance. It is not really a cause for scandal, though I'm sure the Fox Nation folks were exploiting it that way. I just wouldn't want anyone to assume that anytime they hear someone say "crip walk" they are race baiting. Hell, my son and his uncle were crip walking all over the place a couple years ago without banging a single gang.

197 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:05:19pm

re: #188 Daniel Ballard

I disagree. The GOP strategy & it's candidate are very vulnerable. The TP Republicans are going to vote Mitt no matter what is said or proven at this point. The conservative southern Dems are going to split, many wanting to have little to do with this yankee. The answer to trust me is just no. And run like an Olympic sprinter with the facts of the non disclosures and the proven lies, which abound with the Mitt.

There are good tactics to deal with the stone wall of non disclosure and lies. Mostly just old youtubes of Mitt! But then the pros can dig in and really make hay, without anonymously sourced accusations.

I think you're saying that, for instance, the Rachel Maddow piece was good, all the stories about the non-release are good, just the Reid claim is bad. And you said the White House basically hung him out to dry. So we have one rogue senator and his unsubstantiated claim getting all this attention. Perhaps it's not the best we can do, but it's not too bad.

198 kirkspencer  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:05:23pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

They could have made a reasonable case about the low tax rate he actually paid but instead decided to piss away their credibility on wild accusations which nobody believes and distracts from real facts that could have done damage. It remains to be seen how this will play out with the public but many people, like myself just tune it out. The continued dishonest allegations, like the nonsense about Bain, just means I don't pay attention to future allegations from known liars and political activists. They've squandered their credibility and join Fox news as scroll over nonsense.

KT, my irony meter is pegging. The alert code is OWS.

199 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:05:40pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

I won't watch the crap, but what has Gabby ostensibly done to upset them? She didn't pick the outfits for the team. They all dress alike, in the same leotards and jackets and whatnot. She even praised God extensively after her win. Is there something that's bothering them about this girl and her behavior, except for the obvious issue that she's black, y'all?

That make them mad

200 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:07:12pm

re: #168 Sionainn

Sharon Angle would not have gotten my vote either. Yikes. I might have voted another candidate or just not voted that office and voted the rest of the ballot.

Harry always tells the truth right?
Harry Reid: Illegal Aliens Don't Work on Construction Jobs in Nevada

Youtube Video

Sorry Harry ya got that wrong.

201 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:07:42pm

re: #191 wrenchwench

He's at an astronomical level of income, compared with the rest of America. When the 1% get together, he's still in the 1%. If any wealthy individuals paid no taxes (which your link confirms) it's probably the 1% of the 1%.

It's an easy thing for the ultra rich to pay zero taxes of that's their sole goal, and Romney has stated that paying as little as possible is what he's all about. All they have to do is sell enough of their investments at a loss to wipe out the 15% tax obligation on the profits they made for that year. In 2009 it's virtually guaranteed that Romney did this, tons of people did. My Mom and Stepdad wiped out their entire tax bill for that year, and while they're rich they're at least an order of magnitude away from Romney territory.

202 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:08:26pm

re: #198 kirkspencer

KT, my irony meter is pegging. The alert code is OWS.

Oh, you mean the violent radical douchebags that attacked an Obama campaign office a few days ago. Yeah, I remember those guys.

203 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:08:37pm

re: #197 wrenchwench

I think you're saying that, for instance, the Rachel Maddow piece was good, all the stories about the non-release are good, just the Reid claim is bad. And you said the White House basically hung him out to dry. So we have one rogue senator and his unsubstantiated claim getting all this attention. Perhaps it's not the best we can do, but it's not too bad.

I want Reid to show up at an Rmoney campaign event and half way through the speech yell "LIAR". That would be priceless to me.

// But then again, I like cold toilet seats too.

204 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:10:22pm

The Hamilton Project has come out with a paper that points out that public employment is the lowest (as percentage of population) it's been in many years:

A Record Decline in Government Jobs: Implications for the Economy and America’s Workforce

And, according to this chart the decline has been going on for some time.


And yet the Tea Partiers crow on and on about government employees...

One thing I wish the Hamilton Project would have done is differentiate between "public employees" and "government employees". Too many people confuse the two, and the Hamilton Project study doesn't help.

205 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:12:39pm

I offer as proof that the tea partiers are ascendant over the neo-cons in the GOP:

Cheney Seeks to Clarify Sarah Palin ‘Mistake’ Remark

206 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:14:40pm

re: #178 JamesWI

Meanwhile, Politifact merely rates Romney campaigns statements about the lawsuit in Ohio as "false."

While giving Reid a "pants on fire" for something because it's "not likely."

Yeah, completely objective over there......

Lol.

207 ElCapitanAmerica  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:15:29pm

Comments on the Serena "story";

--------------------------------------
mah1464 6 hours ago
funny she is just like the 1% ers huh becomes famous, a millionaire and then leaves her hood, come Serena go back to your hood and help out your peeps, build them a school or even better build them a new jail, it is where most of the people of compton get schooled anyhow. She is a embarrasement to her family, and her country, but she be havin street cred, and in the african society thats all that matters
--------------------------------------


radical1a 7 hours ago
You can take the Punk out of the Ghetto , but you can't take the Ghetto out of the Punk

--------------------------------------------


airforceman 7 hours ago
Folks .... What the US Olympic Committee should do is strip here of the medal and send her RAUNCHY ars packing back to the hood! Her senseless and embarrassing display of "gang" antics is an insult the US!

-----------------------------------------------

208 compound_Idaho  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:15:41pm

re: #126 makeitstop

In 2011, SEP-IRA's were limited to $49K/yr. You can also roll over pensions and 401(k)'s, 403(b), etc. into an IRA. I took a lump sum for my pension and rolled over my 401(k) from my previous employer; unfortunately not $100,000,000. It wouldn't surprise me through that Romney had a better retirement plan than mine.

209 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:16:33pm

re: #143 Lidane

Harry Reid got chosen to be the attack dog.

While everyone else was discussing the hypothetical need for an attack dog Reid was busy crawling into his own homemade doberman suit and injecting himself with rabies.

210 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:18:08pm

re: #207 ElCapitanAmerica

Comments on the Serena "story";

--------------------------------------
mah1464 6 hours ago
funny she is just like the 1% ers huh becomes famous, a millionaire and then leaves her hood, come Serena go back to your hood and help out your peeps, build them a school or even better build them a new jail, it is where most of the people of compton get schooled anyhow. She is a embarrasement to her family, and her country, but she be havin street cred, and in the african society thats all that matters
--------------------------------------

radical1a 7 hours ago
You can take the Punk out of the Ghetto , but you can't take the Ghetto out of the Punk

--------------------------------------------

airforceman 7 hours ago
Folks .... What the US Olympic Committee should do is strip here of the medal and send her RAUNCHY ars packing back to the hood! Her senseless and embarrassing display of "gang" antics is an insult the US!

-----------------------------------------------

Why do they hate America?

Why are they criticizing an American Heroine for doing a traditional American folk dance? (Seriously. People. The crip walk goes back to when I was a kid.)

211 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:18:44pm

re: #210 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do they hate America?

Why are they criticizing an American Heroine for doing a traditional American folk dance? (Seriously. People. The crip walk goes back to when I was a kid.)

They hate select portions of America (read: all of the parts that aren't theirs).

212 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:20:20pm

This would be news... except it happens daily:

GOP candidate in Ohio compares Obama to Hitler, Mao and Stalin

213 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:21:42pm

re: #212 freetoken

This would be news... except it happens daily:

GOP candidate in Ohio compares Obama to Hitler, Mao and Stalin

she is speaking for herself and in no way represents GOP policy or talking points.

/

214 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:22:15pm

re: #212 freetoken

This would be news... except it happens daily:

GOP candidate in Ohio compares Obama to Hitler, Mao and Stalin

Hitaoin!

215 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:22:56pm

re: #208 compound_Idaho

In 2011, SEP-IRA's were limited to $49K/yr. You can also roll over pensions and 401(k)'s, 403(b), etc. into an IRA. I took a lump sum for my pension and rolled over my 401(k) from my previous employer; unfortunately not $100,000,000. It wouldn't surprise me through that Romney had a better retirement plan than mine.

Exactly. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out the IRA allegations aren't going to pan out either.

216 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:25:13pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

Exactly. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out the IRA allegations aren't going to pan out either.

Well, since Romney is too chickenshit to release his tax returns those allegations aren't going to be put to bed either.

217 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:25:18pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

Exactly. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out the IRA allegations aren't going to pan out either.

Except that 401(k) contributions are also limited to $17,000 per year.

218 JamesWI  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:25:38pm

re: #212 freetoken

This would be news... except it happens daily:

GOP candidate in Ohio compares Obama to Hitler, Mao and Stalin

Politifact rates this statement as only "mostly false."

/

219 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:25:53pm

re: #217 Obdicut

Except that 401(k) contributions are also limited to $17,000 per year.

Romney is very, very old.
NEXT!

220 CuriousLurker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:26:06pm

re: #30 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Way O.T.

Can anyone tell me how to "download" emails from yahoo webmail so that they can be saved to drive or to disk, or even if there is a way. Obviously I could screen capture them one by one but besides taking forever the files would be hugh and non-editable.

I never even thought of doing this until a friend suddenly called me asking how to do it, I had to honestly tell her that I had no clue but would look. After looking I still don't see a way to do it, one would think that at the very least there was a way to copy the HTML files rather than convert them to jpeg.

Hopefully I am just missing something rather obvious and sounding like a newb, I would much prefer a bit of personal embarrassment at this point to finding out that it cannot be done.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance
ausador

AFAIK (unlike Google) Yahoo won't let you POP your mail unless you have a paid account. You could always forward them to another account that does let you download your emails locally.

It'll still be pretty tedious since you'll have to do it one email at a time, but it's better than doing screencaps, IMO.

221 compound_Idaho  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:26:36pm

re: #217 Obdicut

Except that 401(k) contributions are also limited to $17,000 per year.

Except your employers match is not limited to $17/yr.

222 erik_t  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:27:44pm

re: #221 compound_Idaho

Except your employers match is not limited to $17/yr.

They must have a very weird definition of 'match' in Idaho.

223 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:27:49pm

re: #217 Obdicut

Except that 401(k) contributions are also limited to $17,000 per year.

There goes that's damned reality again, fuckin' up a perfectly good talkin' point.

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:28:50pm

re: #211 erik_t

They hate select portions of America (read: all of the parts that aren't theirs).

You're supposed to be HAPPY about people who win medals for your country, unless they do something a lot worse than dance around.

Seriously. Lochte. Imagine if a black athlete had showed up with that grille.

225 jaunte  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:29:00pm

401k Employer's matching contribution: there is a limit of 6% of gross annual salary.

226 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:29:19pm

re: #178 JamesWI

What do you make of this graphic? Obama sure looks great compared to Mitt. Right from Politifact.

Image: Compare-1.jpg

227 Patricia Kayden  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:30:06pm

re: #99 Daniel Ballard

So should Bachman and the other Repub politicians who signed a letter claiming that one of Hilary Clinton's assistants was part of the Muslim Brotherhood be censured? Did you write comments about that matter demanding their censure?

How many times have Repubs attacked Democrats, including President Obama, with lies and been censured?

Your selective outrage is noted and quite amusing.

228 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:30:33pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

What do you make of this graphic? Obama sure looks great compared to Mitt. Right from Politifact.

Image: Compare-1.jpg

Umm... Mitt lies more than Obama?

229 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:30:34pm

re: #224 SanFranciscoZionist

You're supposed to be HAPPY about people who win medals for your country, unless they do something a lot worse than dance around.

Seriously. Lochte. Imagine if a black athlete had showed up with that grille.

What would Fox News have to say about this Olympic moment, if they were around back them?

230 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:31:42pm

re: #221 compound_Idaho

Except your employers match is not limited to $17/yr.

Are you sure of that? I'm pretty sure they're not allowed to do more than match your own contribution. Can you cite a source for this?

In addition, it's likely that Romney was a HCE, and so his contributions would have been even more limited-- and that limits the matching funds, as well.

For 2002, you may not make 401(k) contributions or receive matching contributions for any compensation over $200,000, even if you earn more than that. The limit in 2001 was $170,000.

To better understand how this limit works, try taking the following quiz.

If you earn $220,000 in 2002 and contribute 5 percent of your salary to your 401(k), how much will your annual contribution be?

The answer: $10,000. Even though 5 percent of $220,000 is $11,000, the law says you can only make 401(k) contributions on the first $200,000 of your salary. Therefore, your contribution amount is 5 percent of $200,000, or $10,000.

[Link: www.expertplan.com...]

231 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:32:27pm

re: #225 jaunte

401k Employer's matching contribution: there is a limit of 6% of gross annual salary.

Also the amount of salary that can be counted is limited

There are other limits that restrict contributions made on your behalf. In addition to the limit on elective deferrals, annual contributions to all of your accounts - this includes elective deferrals, employee contributions, employer matching and discretionary contributions and allocations of forfeitures to your accounts - may not exceed the lesser of 100% of your compensation or $49,000 for 2011 and $50,000 for 2012. In addition, the amount of your compensation that can be taken into account when determining employer and employee contributions is limited. The compensation limitation is $245,000 for 2011 and $250,000 for 2012.

232 dragonfire1981  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:33:10pm

re: #204 freetoken

The Hamilton Project has come out with a paper that points out that public employment is the lowest (as percentage of population) it's been in many years:

A Record Decline in Government Jobs: Implications for the Economy and America’s Workforce

And, according to this chart the decline has been going on for some time.

And yet the Tea Partiers crow on and on about government employees...

One thing I wish the Hamilton Project would have done is differentiate between "public employees" and "government employees". Too many people confuse the two, and the Hamilton Project study doesn't help.

Employees? Obama doesn't need any stinking employees! Don't you know that he along with Bill Ayers and George Soros control absolutely everything? EVERYTHING!

233 JamesWI  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:33:12pm

re: #226 Daniel Ballard

What do you make of this graphic? Obama sure looks great compared to Mitt. Right from Politifact.

Image: Compare-1.jpg

I think they're scared of being labeled as "liberal." So after going through the dozen lies Republicans tell before they eat breakfast, they latch on to one liberal statement that might not be completely true, then overreact to it so they can be seen as "non-partisan."

I call it the "Alan Colmes/Pat Buchanan" affect. Fox News will bring on the most stereotypical lefty they can find to get yelled at by Hannity for 5 minutes, so they can say "See! We reported both sides of the story!"

234 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:33:26pm

re: #229 Learned Mother of Zion

What would Fox News have to say about this Olympic moment, if they were around back them?

Hmmm... I wonder what the Fox crowd would have written about this Olympic moment.

235 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:34:13pm

Come on. There are people here who think an IRA worth a hundred mil is all above board?

Barnum was right.

236 compound_Idaho  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:34:28pm

re: #222 erik_t

They must have a very weird definition of 'match' in Idaho.

I worked for a small business in Denver; the match was all in company stock however. It turned out to be quite a great deal for a young employee that maxed out his contribution every month. That 6% limit was just about what I paid in social security tax.

237 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:34:46pm

re: #234 freetoken

Hmmm... I wonder what the Fox crowd would have written about this Olympic moment.

Why aren't they showing their pride??!?

oh, wait...

238 Patricia Kayden  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:35:07pm

re: #124 Daniel Ballard

None of the polls show that Reid has hurt Obama's re-election. NONE. Letting Romeny twist in the wind and have to talk about hiding his taxes for the voting public day in and day out is a brilliant re-election strategy. It puts Romney on the defensive, and already he's much less liked than Obama.

What I would love to see is for the "Romney is hiding something by not releasing his taxes" memo continue right through the Democratic convention and right up to Election Day.

Go get them, Harry!

239 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:35:23pm

re: #233 JamesWI

That's pretty much it. They were on the verge of being called....*gasp*....liberal and/or partisan when they called out the GOP, which has been lying about almost everything lately so now they have to appear "fair and balanced" lest they lose "credibility". Of course all they've done is the equivalent of shooting themselves in the foot with a howitzer.

240 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:36:05pm

Where did the nickname "flying squirrel" come from?

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:36:30pm

re: #240 Amory Blaine

Where did the nickname "flying squirrel" come from?

For what or whom?

242 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:36:59pm

re: #236 compound_Idaho

One thing brought up about Romney's IRA is that he was indeed "paid" in stock while at Bain - the stock of companies Bain had bought, which were very undervalued... that magically became much more valuable once Bain finished their transactions.

IOW, the IRA is proof that vampire capitalism pays handsomely, and illustrates one way it is done within the strict bounds of the law, though questionably moral by the spirit of the law.

243 dragonfire1981  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:36:59pm

re: #213 Expand Your Ground

she is speaking for herself and in no way represents GOP policy or talking points.

/

Rush, get off of LGF please.

244 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:37:19pm

[Link: video.msnbc.msn.com...]

245 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:37:25pm

Gabby Douglas= flying squirrel. Where did the nickname come from?

246 dragonfire1981  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:38:08pm

re: #245 Amory Blaine

Gabby Douglas= flying squirrel. Where did the nickname come from?

She's small, dark and fast.

That'd be my best guess.

247 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:39:07pm

Have any other Olympic athletes been bestowed with an animal nickname at the olympics?

248 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:39:19pm

Seriously.
Politifact is useless.

249 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:39:55pm

re: #245 Amory Blaine

Gabby Douglas= flying squirrel. Where did the nickname come from?

Don't know, but it seems fairly obvious for a gymnast, especially one that goes through the air like that.

250 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:39:56pm

re: #244 Varek Raith

Wildly misconstrued = Mostly false?
Lol.

251 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:41:19pm

re: #245 Amory Blaine

Gabby Douglas= flying squirrel. Where did the nickname come from?

Frostbite Falls

252 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:41:24pm

re: #248 Varek Raith

Seriously.
Politifact is useless.

Well, they often lay out known facts reasonably well-- though they sometimes ignore relevant stuff for no apparent reason. It's mainly their conclusions that are irrelevant. Like the whole crap about rating the claim that the GOP wants to end Medicare as false because they wanted to keep the name while entirely changing the program. Like saying that the Boston Celtics would still be the Boston Celtics if they moved to Guam and became goat herders.

253 compound_Idaho  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:45:16pm

re: #230 Obdicut

Are you sure of that? I'm pretty sure they're not allowed to do more than match your own contribution. Can you cite a source for this?

In addition, it's likely that Romney was a HCE, and so his contributions would have been even more limited-- and that limits the matching funds, as well.

[Link: www.expertplan.com...]

The rules have changed over the years. We had a very generous match in company stock.

I am now the employer. I can direct up to 20% of my income to a SEP-IRA up to 49K. The catch is that I must contribute the same percentage to my employee's SEP qualified plan. I max my contribution out every year that I can. My employees get the same percentage. I am glad to do it. It is a good deal for me. It is a good deal for them. It not such a good deal for the IRS.

254 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:46:54pm

re: #247 Amory Blaine

Have any other Olympic athletes been bestowed with an animal nickname at the olympics?

Doing a quick search:

Alex Morgan, the soccer player, is 'Baby Horse'. Kobe is 'Black Mamba', of course, but he's had that long before the Olympics. Misty May Treanor is 'the Turtle'. Yohan Blake is 'the Beast'. Allyson Felix is 'Chicken Legs'. Laurel Flessel-Colovic, the French fencer, is 'the Wasp'. Merrill Moses is 'the Birdman'. Kyla Ross, another U.S. gymnast, is "Mighty Mouse".

And Kayla Harrison, the U.S. judoka, or whatever the feminine of that is, is "Doug". No idea why.

That's just pulled off a Yahoo thing on "Olympian Nicknames", so there are probably dozens more I don't know about. Not my area of expertise.

255 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:47:26pm

re: #253 compound_Idaho

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what relevance that has to the topic. We're discussing how Romney's IRA came to be valued at $100 million, when the annual contributions are so limited-- you proposed rollovers from 401(k)s, but those are severely limited in contributions too. You said that employer contribution was not limited, but I think you're wrong-- what I cited shows that it is. Are you saying that back when Romney was taking his (hypothetical) 401(k) that got rolled into his IRA that the employer compensation was unlimited? And can you support that?

256 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:48:53pm

Etymology of "jingoism," from wikipedia

The chorus of a song by G. H. MacDermott (singer) and G. W. Hunt (songwriter) commonly sung in British pubs and music halls around the time of the Russo-Turkish War (1877–1878) gave birth to the term. The lyrics had the chorus:

We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople.

The phrase "by Jingo" was a long-established minced oath, used to avoid saying "by Jesus". Referring to the song, the specific term "jingoism" was coined as a political label by the prominent British radical George Holyoake in a letter to the Daily News on 13 March 1878. The term eventually caught on in the United States.

Well, by jiminy, I can see why the song is not well remembered. What rhymes with "Constantinople" anyway?

257 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:49:25pm

Pat Robertson Blames Sikh Temple Shooting on Atheists

258 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:50:29pm

re: #256 Shiplord Kirel

Etymology of "jingoism" from wikipedia

Well, by jiminy, I can see why the song is not well remembered. What rhymes with "Constantinople" anyway?

Istanboo would rhyme.

259 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:51:14pm

re: #254 SanFranciscoZionist

Doing a quick search:

Alex Morgan, the soccer player, is 'Baby Horse'. Kobe is 'Black Mamba', of course, but he's had that long before the Olympics. Misty May Treanor is 'the Turtle'. Yohan Blake is 'the Beast'. Allyson Felix is 'Chicken Legs'. Laurel Flessel-Colovic, the French fencer, is 'the Wasp'. Merrill Moses is 'the Birdman'. Kyla Ross, another U.S. gymnast, is "Mighty Mouse".

And Kayla Harrison, the U.S. judoka, or whatever the feminine of that is, is "Doug". No idea why.

That's just pulled off a Yahoo thing on "Olympian Nicknames", so there are probably dozens more I don't know about. Not my area of expertise.

Usain Bolt is 'Lightning Bolt', but that was kind of a given.

And for some reason, swimmer Nathan Adrian is 'Bok Choy'. I can't even begin to figure that one out. There must be some back story to it.

260 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:51:18pm

re: #257 Varek Raith

Pat Robertson Blames Sikh Temple Shooting on Atheists

Yeah, no true Christian would cause trouble in a temple.
Oh. Wait a minute.

261 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:52:42pm

re: #227 Patricia Kayden

So should Bachman and the other Repub politicians who signed a letter claiming that one of Hilary Clinton's assistants was part of the Muslim Brotherhood be censured? Did you write comments about that matter demanding their censure?

How many times have Repubs attacked Democrats, including President Obama, with lies and been censured?

Your selective outrage is noted and quite amusing.

Based on your long familiarity with my posts here since 2008 I presume?
If I sometimes choose not to be the umpteenth poster criticizing Michelle Bachmann does that constitute some kind of oversight on my part? Really? I either join the dog pile each and every time or I'm being selective. Huh.

Did you read my posts about the NY mosque near ground zero?

Sure I am a right leaning indy. But unless you have been watching my posts here for longer than say since May of this year you may not have a great idea about me and what I post.

I don't have the time to work up a search for all my posts that mention or in response Bachmann. How about you do that and get back to me about what I had to say about her or her points of view.

262 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:53:17pm

Among the long list of things at which news-wire article writers fail - science, engineering, geography - add history to that list.

Genetic study offers clues to history of North Africa's Jews

263 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:53:27pm

re: #260 Shiplord Kirel

Yeah, no true Christian would cause trouble in a temple.
Oh. Wait a minute.

His intent was...rather different.

264 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:54:36pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Those stats are for one year returns. The chances he paid no taxes for ten years are astronomical. It's an absurd claim.

I don't think you understand the politics of this. If Romney releases his tax returns and did actually pay some taxes (but at a lower rate than most middle class Americans), then Reid's gambit was still effective. The story at that point won't be "Sen. Reid [who no one knows or cares about] was wrong when he said Romney paid NO taxes." The story will be "Romney DID pay some taxes, but far lower as a percentage of income than the average mid-class American." Which would hurt Romney a lot more than Reid, since Romney's campaign would have to play defense and explain his relatively low effective tax rates. On the other hand, every day Romney refuses to release is another day to wonder why he won't do what other candidates have done. Clearly he's hiding something; if his returns weren't the kind of thing to make him look bad, they'd be out by now.

265 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:55:38pm

There's an article about Romney....going grocery shopping.

Seriously? Nothing else is going on in the world to write about?

266 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:56:21pm

re: #265 Mostly sane, most of the time.

There's an article about Romney....going grocery shopping.

Seriously? Nothing else is going on in the world to write about?

Hold on a sec...
...
..
.
Ok, new crater discovered!
;)

267 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:56:56pm

re: #265 Mostly sane, most of the time.

There's an article about Romney....going grocery shopping.

Seriously? Nothing else is going on in the world to write about?

Probably going out for refreshments before The Sport came on.

268 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:57:48pm

re: #266 Varek Raith

Hey, in the new book I'm writing I'd like to name a character after you. A villain. Do you want him to go down guns blazing or escape to cackle evily another day?

269 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:57:54pm

Have you ever seen a Beagle catch a whiff of something weird and go baying off into their neighbor's property, shit all over their lawn, dig up the garden and hump the garden gnomes? It's kind of adorable:

Indeed, if throwing sand in our eyes and sowing dissension among Republicans were Senator Reid’s goals, he has succeeded: Reid has kept the political world – and most important, the media – focused on speculation around the wealthy Mr. Romney’s taxes, even amid an uptick in the unemployment rate. And Republicans are continuing to say that Romney should release more than the two returns he has already put out.

"I think at this point in time it's going to dog him all the way, and he needs to get it behind him," Republican strategist Ed Rollins said Sunday on Fox News. "I think he needs to release more taxes. Absolutely."

Mr. Rollins joins conservative columnist George Will, Weekly Standard editor William Kristol, and former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour (R) in saying that Romney should release more returns.

270 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:59:36pm

*sigh*

Conservatives So, So Grossed Out that a Democrat Said ‘Menstruation’ While Discussing Birth Control

If these morons can't even handle the mere mention of a woman's period when talking about birth control, why should they be taken seriously on women's health issues?

271 makeitstop  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 3:59:54pm

re: #269 goddamnedfrank

Have you ever seen a Beagle catch a whiff of something weird and go baying off into their neighbor's property, shit all over their lawn, dig up the garden and hump the garden gnomes? It's kind of adorable:

grumblegrumbe unfounded accusations grumblegrumble fact-checkers grumblegrumble..

272 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:00:23pm

re: #270 Lidane

*sigh*

Conservatives So, So Grossed Out that a Democrat Said ‘Menstruation’ While Discussing Birth Control

If these morons can't even handle the mere mention of a woman's period when talking about birth control, why should they be taken seriously on women's health issues?

"She said 'vagina'! I'm offended! Censure!!!"

273 compound_Idaho  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:00:47pm

re: #255 Obdicut

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what relevance that has to the topic. We're discussing how Romney's IRA came to be valued at $100 million, when the annual contributions are so limited-- you proposed rollovers from 401(k)s, but those are severely limited in contributions too. You said that employer contribution was not limited, but I think you're wrong-- what I cited shows that it is. Are you saying that back when Romney was taking his (hypothetical) 401(k) that got rolled into his IRA that the employer compensation was unlimited? And can you support that?

You forgot to consider the cash out of any pension plans. The point is that the numbers do not require a crime.

274 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:02:17pm

re: #270 Lidane

did someone say menstruation?

Image: PYpaq5VI2EqHnP7ffWqN4w2.png

(not dirty, just funny)

275 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:03:10pm

re: #273 compound_Idaho

An account worth $100 million isn't a pension plan.

276 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:03:14pm

re: #273 compound_Idaho

You forgot to consider the cash out of any pension plans. The point is that the numbers do not require a crime.

Certainly not a crime, just an explanation. And that's really what Romney's afraid of, explaining to the public what his taxes really show about how the 1% make their money. Kinda hard to sell people on tax cuts and "reform" when you're using every legal trick in the book to pay a lower tax rate than the janitors.

277 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:03:15pm

re: #270 Lidane

*sigh*

Conservatives So, So Grossed Out that a Democrat Said ‘Menstruation’ While Discussing Birth Control

If these morons can't even handle the mere mention of a woman's period when talking about birth control, why should they be taken seriously on women's health issues?

They shouldn't be taken seriously.

Let's face it, they are afraid of vaginas.

VAGINA... how scary...

We are just breaking it to the GOP that fully one half of the population owns one. They are literally everywhere!

278 dragonfire1981  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:03:37pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

Usain Bolt is 'Lightning Bolt', but that was kind of a given.

And for some reason, swimmer Nathan Adrian is 'Bok Choy'. I can't even begin to figure that one out. There must be some back story to it.

His mother is Chinese. That may have something to do with it.

279 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:04:39pm

re: #273 compound_Idaho

You forgot to consider the cash out of any pension plans. The point is that the numbers do not require a crime.

I'm not accusing him of a crime, though. I think that Romney undervalued stock that went into the IRA, which is violating the spirit but not (usually) the letter of the law. Your contention is that he had 401(k)s, pensions, etc. that brought the amount up to $100 million. I really doubt that-- or Bain had a very, very strangely overinflated pension plan, which would itself be worth talking about given how often the GOP whines about public employee pension plans.

You know what would help us in this discussion? If Mitt Romney released his tax returns.

280 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:05:04pm

re: #270 Lidane

*sigh*

Conservatives So, So Grossed Out that a Democrat Said ‘Menstruation’ While Discussing Birth Control

If these morons can't even handle the mere mention of a woman's period when talking about birth control, why should they be taken seriously on women's health issues?

This from the party having their convention at Tampon Bay, Florida.

281 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:05:53pm

re: #279 Obdicut

You know what would help us in this discussion? If Mitt Romney released his tax returns.

We could just post this over and over.

282 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:06:00pm

re: #279 Obdicut

You know what would help us in this discussion? If Mitt Romney released his tax returns.

Why do you hate America?

///

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:06:07pm

re: #278 dragonfire1981

His mother is Chinese. That may have something to do with it.

Could be, I didn't know that.

I noted it with some interest, since I am known to a few very old Chinese-speaking friends as 'Choy', due to a complicated web of translations of mispronunciations of my actual name by someone's grandmother.

284 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:08:07pm

re: #279 Obdicut

You know what would help us in this discussion? If Mitt Romney released his tax returns.

re: #281 wrenchwench

We could just post this over and over.

Let's do.

285 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:10:40pm

Seriously, can you imagine the uproar if it came out that Romney had sold stock at a loss in '08 and '09, then used those losses to avoid paying taxes, while he and the other GOP stooges are telling anybody who'll listen that half the country "pays no taxes"?

286 compound_Idaho  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:11:44pm

re: #279 Obdicut

I'm not accusing him of a crime, though. I think that Romney undervalued stock that went into the IRA, which is violating the spirit but not (usually) the letter of the law. Your contention is that he had 401(k)s, pensions, etc. that brought the amount up to $100 million. I really doubt that-- or Bain had a very, very strangely overinflated pension plan, which would itself be worth talking about given how often the GOP whines about public employee pension plans.

You know what would help us in this discussion? If Mitt Romney released his tax returns.

Mr. Jones, have you stopped beating your wife? //

Apparently the IRS has no problem with Mr. Romney's returns. I'll bet they have looked at them very closely. Maybe they even called Harry Reid claiming to be an old Bane associate. How an old associate would know anything about the boss's returns I have no idea. I do not discuss the details of my returns with my coworkers, certainly not my subordinates.

287 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:14:09pm

Stories more interesting than Romney going grocery shopping:

Ancient Lion statues: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

MARS! [Link: www.csmonitor.com...]

Truck full of beer tips over. No, it hasn't spilled and you can't go drink it: [Link: www.oregonlive.com...]

Pretty much anything in the Smithsonian magazine: [Link: www.smithsonianmag.com...]

288 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:14:13pm

re: #276 Targetpractice

Certainly not a crime, just an explanation. And that's really what Romney's afraid of, explaining to the public what his taxes really show about how the 1% make their money. Kinda hard to sell people on tax cuts and "reform" when you're using every legal trick in the book to pay a lower tax rate than the janitors.

Exactly the point Ronald Reagan made back in the 80's when he said, "There's something wrong in a tax system where multi-millionaires pay lower effective rates than bus drivers." Not that Reagan fixed that problem, but his mere acknowledgement of the inequality would be heresy in today's GOP.

My prediction is that Romney is dug in on the tax return issue. He won't be releasing them, no matter how many Republican pundits and politicians urge him to; rather he's made his bet that the economy will be weak enough that he can win a close election based on crappy employment and consumer confidence numbers. Sure, the constant harping on his unreleased returns will damage him somewhat, but it's better than putting self-damning evidence right out there for all to see, and then trying to defend it. Better to be mysterious, from Romney's POV, than allow his tax returns to concretely give the other side ammunition.

289 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:14:33pm

re: #286 compound_Idaho

Mr. Jones, have you stopped beating your wife? //

Apparently the IRS has no problem with Mr. Romney's returns. I'll bet they have looked at them very closely. Maybe they even called Harry Reid claiming to be an old Bane associate. How an old associate would know anything about the boss's returns I have no idea. I do not discuss the details of my returns with my coworkers, certainly not my subordinates.

Apparently the folks at Bain had intense negotiations with Romney from 1999 to 2002 about his severance deal. It might have come up then.

You know what would help us in this discussion? If Mitt Romney released his tax returns.

290 Jadewater  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:14:34pm

Hey. I woke up this morning and thought 'Hey you know I really wish that Mitt Romney guys down south would release his tax returns."

291 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:15:00pm

If Mitt Romney released his tax returns

and after 20 years of reaganite campaign tactics i have no patience with any pious complaints from republicans about unfairness or irrelevance

292 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:15:10pm

re: #286 compound_Idaho

Mr. Jones, have you stopped beating your wife? //

I have never beat my wife.

I've never understood why people thought there was no answer to that question.

Apparently the IRS has no problem with Mr. Romney's returns.

Do you understand that I think Romney hasn't committed any crime, and the returns aren't 'problematic' from an IRS standpoint? I stated it in my previous post, maybe you missed it.

What I am interested in is the various ways that Romney juggles his money around and games the system. We just had a giant financial meltdown caused by very smart guys juggling shit around. Do you think it's unreasonable of me to want to see how Romney manages his taxes?

293 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:17:56pm

As to the main thread,

At first when I saw all the hate directed at our First Lady, who is awesome, I thought it was just a mean-spirited and juvenile attempt to hurt the president by insulting his wife.

Amongst the really low brow, calling a man's wife/girlfriend/sister/mother names is a sort of counting coup. It is being as mean as possible to pick a fight. I figured that the cretins then imagined they had "given one" to the president.

But looking at the pits to which they will sink, by attacking two black athletes who brought this nation glory, I have to conclude it is something deeper.

Yeah part of it is a reverse racist meme of the "angry black person." The troglodytes who fall for it, project their own hatreds onto others, because "it is what they would do." They assume that they are hated back just for their pale skin in the same way they fear dark skin.

But I think there is even more to it than that. And note what I am about to write is not my view, but one I have seen repeatedly.

I think for the longest time the lowest of the low in American culture was a black woman. She was always pictured as stupid, loud, vulgar and uncultured. That is putting it charitably. Black men (rappers) don't help a lot with that image either. I've often wondered what they say to their mothers, but that is another question.

Of course, that allows white racists to say something like "see even they say it!".

If we go by the model that the right at its base fears losing its position more than anything and would cling on to "at least I'm white."

But instead, We have three women of color here who have done more than anyone in the GOP base could ever hope to accomplish. The first lady is cultured, literate and successful academically and professionally in spheres that the typical Fox news troll could never even imagine.

"At least I'm white" doesn't mean much if you are trailer trash, and you can't even pronounce all the subjects she got A's in from Princeton. "At least I'm white" doesn't mean much if you are trailer trash, have a beer gut and are looking at an Olympian.

So, those ladies have to be cut down to size. After all, actually getting an education or achieving something other than being a dumb hick is beyond the Red States.

294 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:18:16pm

Lest we forget Breitbart's legacy:

OBAMA ADMINISTRATION PAVES THE WAY FOR SHARIA LAW

There's no headline too inflammatory to be news!

295 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:19:51pm

re: #293 LudwigVanQuixote

trailer trash

You messed up an otherwise fine comment.

296 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:20:02pm

re: #286 compound_Idaho

Mr. Jones, have you stopped beating your wife? //

Apparently the IRS has no problem with Mr. Romney's returns. I'll bet they have looked at them very closely. Maybe they even called Harry Reid claiming to be an old Bane associate. How an old associate would know anything about the boss's returns I have no idea. I do not discuss the details of my returns with my coworkers, certainly not my subordinates.

We're not talking (necessarily) about the legality of his returns. We're talking about his likely very low effective tax rates, lower than the average middle class family. In the context of Romney's support for further cuts at the top, inability to identify loopholes he'd get rid of, and the right's general whining that "50% of Americans pay no federal taxes", does this sound like an issue that will help or hurt him?

As for no "problems" with his returns, all we have so far is Romney's assertion that he was audited (for what year(s) he didn't say) at some point, as if that alone proves all is OK in his returns.

298 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:22:15pm

re: #292 Obdicut

Wanting to see the taxes is as legit as can be. Demanding to see them-ditto. Sponsoring legislation to require it is even better.

Feeling perfectly comfortable with strong accusations on a slim and anonymous basis not so much, unless apparently they dig at an unpopular candidate in an election cycle. I'm reminded that the stronger the accusation is the stronger the evidence should be. Falling back on "he can fix it by releasing his taxes" really misses that point.

So Mitt can release his taxes or not, and Harry can sponsor tax disclosure legislation or not. Each at their own chosen timing and peril.

299 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:23:14pm

re: #286 compound_Idaho

Mr. Jones, have you stopped beating your wife? //

Apparently the IRS has no problem with Mr. Romney's returns. I'll bet they have looked at them very closely. Maybe they even called Harry Reid claiming to be an old Bane associate. How an old associate would know anything about the boss's returns I have no idea. I do not discuss the details of my returns with my coworkers, certainly not my subordinates.

Does the IRS have to have a problem with someone's returns in order for there to be gaming of the system? That really is the point of all this, that Romney didn't have to commit anything illegal to make his millions, because the tax code has been crowbarred and jury-rigged into one where the rich can utilize any of a number of loopholes to avoid paying taxes we little people are on the hook for. And then have the gall to accuse us of not pulling our weight.

300 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:25:14pm

Yeah we should be happy Romney and his ilk can stuff retirement funds full of hundreds of millions of dollars. Its all legal you know. Go USA!!!!

301 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:25:15pm

re: #295 wrenchwench

You messed up an otherwise fine comment.

I forgot how much I missed your politically correct policing.

Would you prefer Hick or Hillbilly or Redneck? Would you prefer "Person of Wall-Mart?"

I am referring to the sort of uneducated, ignorant, mouthbreathing white person that would write something mean about the First Lady or these athletes.

What is the proper way to refer to the Fox watching, uneducated, racist, cheap beer swilling, unwashed set of white folks?

302 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:26:11pm

re: #298 Daniel Ballard

Wanting to see the taxes is as legit as can be. Demanding to see them-ditto. Sponsoring legislation to require it is even better.

Feeling perfectly comfortable with strong accusations on a slim and anonymous basis not so much, unless apparently they dig at an unpopular candidate in an election cycle. I'm reminded that the stronger the accusation is the stronger the evidence should be. Falling back on "he can fix it by releasing his taxes" really misses that point.

So Mitt can release his taxes or not, and Harry can sponsor tax disclosure legislation or not. Each at their own chosen timing and peril.

Don't you just wonder, even a little, why Romney would be so reluctant to follow in a tradition of releasing tax returns that goes back over 40 years?

On planet Earth, especially in politics, smoke usually implies fire.

303 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:27:40pm

How a wingnut views Global Warming:

"The hottest summer is nothing compared to what some will face in eternity."

304 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:28:26pm

re: #298 Daniel Ballard

I"m not fine with Reid's accusation. I think the same result could have been achieved without taking it as far as he did.

But that doesn't change, one whit, the situation. Mitt Romney refuses to release his taxes, which, to me, says that there is stuff in there he thinks will make the American people less likely to vote for him. And I'd really know what that is. Especially in this time when we've just suffered a massive depression, and another increase in the gap between rich and poor, due to the financial manipulations of very smart capitalist dudes, which is what Romney is.

305 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:31:19pm

Morrissey condemns 'blustering jingoism'

FORMER SMITHS singer Morrissey has condemned the London 2012 Olympics as “blustering jingoism”, comparing the public reaction to Britain’s medal victories to emotions in Nazi Germany in 1939 on the eve of the second World War.

Often controversial, the singer posted a letter on his website declaring: “I am unable to watch the Olympics due to the blustering jingoism that drenches the event. Has England ever been quite so foul with patriotism? “The ‘dazzling royals’ have, quite naturally, hijacked the Olympics for their own empirical needs, and no oppositional voice is allowed in the free press. It is lethal to witness,” said the Manchester-born singer.

[...]

Hmmm... I wonder how he feels about Fox News.

306 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:31:25pm

re: #301 LudwigVanQuixote

I forgot how much I missed your politically correct policing.

Would you prefer Hick or Hillbilly or Redneck? Would you prefer "Person of Wall-Mart?"

I am referring to the sort of uneducated, ignorant, mouthbreathing white person that would write something mean about the First Lady or these athletes.

What is the proper way to refer to the Fox watching, uneducated, racist, cheap beer swilling, unwashed set of white folks?

Why not just call them 'uneducated, ignorant, mouthbreathing white persons'?

Shall I again point out to you that 41% of New Mexicans live in "trailers"? Most of 'em aren't even white.

Excuse me for being 'politically correct'.

My grandmother spent her last decade in a "trailer" in Wisconsin. She was a sweet lady.

307 Varek Raith  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:31:37pm

re: #268 Obdicut

Hey, in the new book I'm writing I'd like to name a character after you. A villain. Do you want him to go down guns blazing or escape to cackle evily another day?

Hmm...
Guns blazing sounds appealing...
But getting away is where it's at.
:)

308 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:32:07pm

The average Wisconsin state employee gets $24,500 a year pension.

Outrage!!!

309 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:32:16pm

re: #303 Kragar

How a wingnut views Global Warming:

"The hottest summer is nothing compared to what some will face in eternity."

I just... I can't. That sort of blind ignorance and nihilism makes me angry and depressed in equal measure.

310 compound_Idaho  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:32:33pm

PS If someone in a position of responsibility has revealed personal tax information = felony

Maybe someone should look into that.re: #292 Obdicut

I have never beat my wife.

I've never understood why people thought there was no answer to that question.

Do you understand that I think Romney hasn't committed any crime, and the returns aren't 'problematic' from an IRS standpoint? I stated it in my previous post, maybe you missed it.

What I am interested in is the various ways that Romney juggles his money around and games the system. We just had a giant financial meltdown caused by very smart guys juggling shit around. Do you think it's unreasonable of me to want to see how Romney manages his taxes?

But can you prove you have never beaten you wife?

If Romney released returns from the last 10 years, his opponents would then ask for the last 23 yrs. Oh, wait, that has already happened. Did releasing the birth certificate shut the birthers up?

[Link: www.inquisitr.com...]

It just never ends. It is just a fishing expedition (e.g. taxes, birth certificate, social security card, school records .....)

Let's get back on topic. I couldn't give a @#$%^& if he gamed the system. I work the system the best I can; completely within the law of coarse. How will the plans for the future affect the country, my family, my business. Enough about birth certificates and tax returns already.

311 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:33:36pm

re: #308 Amory Blaine

The average Wisconsin state employee gets $24,500 a year pension.

Outrage!!!

Republican logic:

State employee getting a $24,500/year pension = ZOMG SOCIALISM

Mitt Romney having a $100 million "pension plan" = A-OK

312 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:33:48pm

re: #306 wrenchwench

Why not just call them 'uneducated, ignorant, mouthbreathing white persons'?

Shall I again point out to you that 41% of New Mexicans live in "trailers"? Most of 'em aren't even white.

Excuse me for being 'politically correct'.

My grandmother spent her last decade in a "trailer" in Wisconsin. She was a sweet lady.

So she was not trash. Being poor does not make one trash. That was never implied or said. So rather than this turning into a chance for you to get all up in my stuff with your supposed hurts, let's cut to the chase.

No one uses trailer trash to mean non-whites, and no-one uses it to mean anything other than the description I wrote above. Find something else to raise a stink about.

313 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:34:05pm

re: #302 palomino

I feel sure he has maneuvered to pay very little. He may have suffered some big losses that carried over as tax credits, maybe not. If the taxes were to his advantage he would disclose. So he is trying to avoid taking a big hit, and failing to do so.

I just do not see good reason to suspend sensible expectations like a proportion between accusation and evidence from the majority leader of the Senate.

What I have learned here is we should have a tax disclosure requirement for every candidate running for Congress, the Senate or the executive branch. Cabinet posts. Justice department positions like judges. That is what my biggest take away is from this. I was already not going to vote for Mitt, not that it matters in California, winner take all. I could vote Mitt or Mickey mouse and have exactly the same influence on the outcome.

314 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:34:14pm

re: #310 compound_Idaho

If Romney releases 10 years worth, and then they ask for more then yes, it is a fishing expedition. 1 year is an insult to my intelligence.

315 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:34:27pm

re: #310 compound_Idaho

It's not the same as birtherism.

It just isn't.

Asking Romney to do what other recent President candidates have done is hardly dramatic. It's simply become customary.

316 wrenchwench  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:34:59pm

re: #312 LudwigVanQuixote

So she was not trash. Being poor does not make one trash. That was never implied or said. So rather than this turning into a chance for you to get all up in my stuff with your supposed hurts, let's cut to the chase.

No one uses trailer trash to mean non-whites, and no-one uses it to mean anything other than the description I wrote above. Find something else to raise a stink about.

You're raising enough stink yourself. I'm done.

317 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:35:59pm

re: #173 Killgore Trout

They could have made a reasonable case about the low tax rate he actually paid but instead decided to piss away their credibility on wild accusations which nobody believes and distracts from real facts that could have done damage. It remains to be seen how this will play out with the public but many people, like myself just tune it out. The continued dishonest allegations, like the nonsense about Bain, just means I don't pay attention to future allegations from known liars and political activists. They've squandered their credibility and join Fox news as scroll over nonsense.

Since Romney has no intention of releasing the tax returns that even Republican pols and pundits are calling for, how else should the Dems play this? Just dropping the issue would be political malpractice, and a huge missed opportunity.

We already know that he paid 13.9% one year due to his hefty dividend income, etc. So that's a baseline that isn't too helpful for Romney. For the Dems to not go for the jugular after that info was released would be nice and pretty and filled with hearts, but again on planet Earth it would be political incompetence in terms of running a campaign.

318 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:36:20pm

re: #310 compound_Idaho

PS If someone in a position of responsibility has revealed personal tax information = felony

Maybe someone should look into that.

But can you prove you have never beaten you wife?

If Romney released returns from the last 10 years, his opponents would then ask for the last 23 yrs. Oh, wait, that has already happened. Did releasing the birth certificate shut the birthers up?

[Link: www.inquisitr.com...]

It just never ends. It is just a fishing expedition (e.g. taxes, birth certificate, social security card, school records .....)

Let's get back on topic. I couldn't give a @#$%^& if he gamed the system. I work the system the best I can; completely within the law of coarse. How will the plans for the future affect the country, my family, my business. Enough about birth certificates and tax returns already.

Did it silence the birthers? No. Did it put the issue to bed for most voters? Seems so, as even the Republicans are loathe to do more than entertain the idea in off-hand remarks. The odd elected official here and there plays to it, but he's doing it more to elevate himself for future elections than because he believes there's anything to it.

Obama's already released 10 years of returns, Biden's released 12. If Romney released 10, then assuming nothing of interest was there, the issue would effectively be over. Many would trying to keep the fire burning, but for the average man on the street, it would be considered settled.

319 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:37:13pm

Its funny that a guy running on his great business experience does not want to talk about how much money he made using said experience.

Its fine with me if he only wants to release 1 or 2 years, because I guess those are the 2 years of business experience he wants us to look at.

He failed to run a business those 2 years. So much for business experience, next lie please.

320 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:38:59pm

re: #305 freetoken

Morrissey condemns 'blustering jingoism'

Hmmm... I wonder how he feels about Fox News.

He's got a point about the royal family, one of the most outdated and useless institutions on the planet. Even the coverage here in the US is so filled with references to the royals that you'd think the entire games were put on for their amusement alone. I can only imagine how much more extreme and sycophantic the coverage is in GB.

321 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:40:09pm

I don't think Gabby is worried about the haters. And I know for damn sure Serena doesn't give a shit.

Image: tumblr_m861z2mr2U1qkr8vco1_500.jpg

322 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:40:52pm

re: #319 Kragar

It's like everyone I know looking for a job, you think any of the jobs have the salaries listed? None. It's so they can screw you.

323 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:41:15pm

re: #310 compound_Idaho

But can you prove you have never beaten you wife?

Sure. My wife will say that she has never been beaten by me, and she's an incredibly strong-minded woman who's an entirely credible witness. her parents would speak up on my behalf, as would any number of other people. The accusation, coming as it did from someone with no knowledge of me, would seem crazy. Since I'd take that seriously, I'd probably sue you for slander if you actually accused me of beating my wife.

If Romney released returns from the last 10 years, his opponents would then ask for the last 23 yrs. Oh, wait, that has already happened. Did releasing the birth certificate shut the birthers up?

The situations are not analogous. The birth certificate was always irrelevant. There as never any reason to think that Obama wasn't born in the United States.

There is plenty of information to be gleaned from Romney's taxes that aren't related to any wild speculation about crime.

Your analogy doesn't work.

Let's get back on topic. I couldn't give a @#$%^& if he gamed the system. I work the system the best I can; completely within the law of coarse.

I'm sorry, but to many Americans, this is perfectly on topic. There is a national conversation about what the appropriate levels of taxation should be; Romney's already shown that for one year he paid far, far lower percentage of taxation on his unearned income than many Americans did for their income that came from hard work. I think that we might see some years, in his tax returns, where he paid zero or close to it because that's a typical investment strategy to avoid taxes. It's legal, it's gaming the system, and I don't think that point holds against Romney's character so much, but it does work against his plans for taxation and economics, which are to privilege that unearned income even more and put even a higher tax burden on the working class and middle class.

Does that help you understand why his taxes are important?

324 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:41:57pm

re: #317 palomino

Since Romney has no intention of releasing the tax returns that even Republican pols and pundits are calling for, how else should the Dems play this?

Hey question and excellent answer in the same sentence. I have to wonder why the Dems decided that they could not make adequate advantage out of the lack of disclosure without the accusations absent evidence? What the hell is wrong with those supposedly sharp "professional campaigning" brains?

I have to question that call.

325 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:42:24pm

re: #322 Amory Blaine

It's like everyone I know looking for a job, you think any of the jobs have the salaries listed? None. It's so they can screw you.

Another way they screw you -- by forcing you to put your salary requirements on an application or it will automatically be rejected. You can easily price yourself out of a job without ever knowing it.

326 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:43:11pm

re: #324 Daniel Ballard

Hey question and excellent answer in the same sentence. I have to wonder why the Dems decided that they could not make adequate advantage out of the lack of disclosure without the accusations absent evidence? What the hell is wrong with those supposedly sharp "professional campaigning" brains?

I have to question that call.

I question the call behind the tactic, but the drive behind it, namely to keep the issue in the press, I can't fault. There were better ways to go about it, but as is, it's succeeded.

327 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:43:52pm

re: #319 Kragar

Its funny that a guy running on his great business experience does not want to talk about how much money he made using said experience.

Seriously. If he's that much of a business genius, why not release all those returns and let us have proof of his miraculous business savvy?

328 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:44:15pm

What's true for tax returns is also true of religion? Maybe when it comes to Romney?

Romney should not be afraid to highlight his faith

It's just more Gerson pap, but I wonder if this is part of a larger picture about Romney, and his need to not really be himself in order to be the GOP nominee.

329 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:44:32pm

re: #319 Kragar

Its funny that a guy running on his great business experience does want to talk about how much money he made using said experience.

Its fine with me if he only wants to release 1 or 2 years, because I guess those are the 2 years of business experience he wants us to look at.

He failed to run a business those 2 years. So much for business experience, next lie please.

Maybe it's because these captains of finance know they haven't made or created anything that is tangible to most people. It would be one thing if most of use had actually used or bought a product that Romney invented. He just moved money around. I'm not saying that doesn't require some skill, but to use the misquote of the President, Romney didn't make anything. His business experience is like Kim Kardashian's celebrity.

330 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:44:50pm

re: #325 Lidane

Another way they screw you -- by forcing you to put your salary requirements on an application or it will automatically be rejected. You can easily price yourself out of a job without ever knowing it.

Another standard warning: Don't discuss your salary with other employees.

331 Kragar  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:45:42pm

re: #329 moderatelyradicalliberal

Maybe it's because these captains of finance know they haven't made or created anything that is tangible to most people. It would be one thing if most of use had actually used or bought a product that Romney invented. He just moved money around. I'm not saying that doesn't require some skill, but to use the misquote of the President, Romney didn't make anything. His business experience is like Kim Kardashian's celebrity.

Kim had a porno tape.

I don't want to see Mitt's.

332 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:45:42pm

re: #325 Lidane

I helped an 18 year old apply for a job at Target for a box boy or something on my computer. The thing took like 2 hours to complete. There must've been a hundred of them phony ethics questions. I mean Jeepers H Crackers man it's a fucking box boy job at the local Target!!!

333 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:47:15pm

re: #332 Amory Blaine

I helped an 18 year old apply for a job at Target for a box boy or something on my computer. The thing took like 2 hours to complete. There must've been a hundred of them phony ethics questions. I mean Jeepers H Crackers man it's a fucking box boy job at the local Target!!!

Every application I've done on-line has had that same damned ethics quiz either in the middle of at the end, which I'm pretty sure is the same damned quiz every time. Laziness in the extreme.

334 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:47:41pm

Most of the time we here at LGF recognize that accusations call for proportionate evidence. Most of the time we all agree about the importance of our political leaders like the majority leadership or the President, or the Speaker of the House to hold themselves to a higher standard than pro campaign attack dogs. Calling Harry Reid a liar was just as wrong. No proof.

But at this time many want to throw that standard of behavior out until November. I guess I have been of an independent anti party mindset for so long I just don't get that. The standard of behavior we require needs to be the same every year, elections or not.

Who supports my thought that tax disclosure should be required for high office? Any opposed?

335 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:48:16pm

re: #331 Kragar

Kim had a porno tape.

I don't want to see Mitt's.

Actually, I'm curious about what the sacred undergarments look like.

//

336 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:49:28pm

Stupid flows like a river ...

Fox News anchor asks about ‘anti-Semitic acts’ against Sikhs

337 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:49:37pm

re: #334 Daniel Ballard

Most of the time we here at LGF recognize that accusations call for proportionate evidence. Most of the time we all agree about the importance of our political leaders like the majority leadership or the President, or the Speaker of the House to hold themselves to a higher standard than pro campaign attack dogs. Calling Harry Reid a liar was just as wrong. No proof.

But at this time many want to throw that standard of behavior out until November. I guess I have been of an independent anti party mindset for so long I just don't get that. The standard of behavior we require needs to be the same every year, elections or not.

Who supports my thought that tax disclosure should be required for high office? Any opposed?

I'd say yes, but my vote doesn't count.

338 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:49:42pm

re: #334 Daniel Ballard

I don't think you're getting it. Even if we completely condemn Reid, spit on him, say that what he said was shitty, then nothing changes.

We still want to see Romney's tax returns, and it's still amazingly shitty of him not to release them.

Who supports my thought that tax disclosure should be required for high office? Any opposed?

I'd agree to that. I'd rather we simplified the tax code so we couldn't play silly buggers with it, but as long as it's a mixed up mess of privilege, then yeah, it should be disclosed for higher office.

339 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:51:15pm

re: #313 Daniel Ballard

I feel sure he has maneuvered to pay very little. He may have suffered some big losses that carried over as tax credits, maybe not. If the taxes were to his advantage he would disclose. So he is trying to avoid taking a big hit, and failing to do so.

I just do not see good reason to suspend sensible expectations like a proportion between accusation and evidence from the majority leader of the Senate.

What I have learned here is we should have a tax disclosure requirement for every candidate running for Congress, the Senate or the executive branch. Cabinet posts. Justice department positions like judges. That is what my biggest take away is from this. I was already not going to vote for Mitt, not that it matters in California, winner take all. I could vote Mitt or Mickey mouse and have exactly the same influence on the outcome.

Sure, Reid is swinging wildly. He's a former boxer, and those are his instincts, though he usually isn't this public about it. Still, it makes sense from a strategic standpoint for the Dems to keep this in the spotlight. If nothing else, Romney is thumbing his nose at the precedent for tax returns that goes back over 40 years in presidential contests. Going so far as to have his wife tell us that "you people" have seen enough of Romney's finances, so screw the last 40 years of campaign customs.

You're absolutely right about the electoral college. I've lived my whole life in TX, MA and CA. Not once have I felt like my vote made a difference, because my state was so red or blue. The effect of the electoral college, an elitist concoction in the Constitution to prevent actual direct democratic elections, is that the election takes place in 10 swing states at most, while the rest of the country is only valuable to the candidates as places to raise money. Furthermore, it makes us the only democracy in the world IIRC where the winner of the popular vote can actually lose the election to be head of state.

340 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:51:55pm

re: #334 Daniel Ballard

You can mark me in the support column, because I think it's something that voters should have available in these days when tax policy is a major issue on an almost daily basis. If nothing else, being able to look at how this politician will benefit from the tax cut proposal he's putting forth or how much that one will end up paying more a year if his tax increase goes through would be helpful.

341 SpaceJesus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:52:48pm

yeah, gabby totally should have randomly grabbed a british police officer then had her entourage beat him then fire a gun at his head and threaten to kill him then return to the us and run for congress in florida

342 SpaceJesus  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:54:06pm

conservatives are all fascist trash

343 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:54:38pm

re: #339 palomino

That last part is actually something that could very well happen this year, if the present poll numbers hold til November. It might actually be Obama winning a landslide electoral vote but losing the popular vote to Romney by a razor-thin margin.

That happens, I imagine come December, we'll see a revival of the push for the Electoral College to be "reformed" or just done away with.

344 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:54:42pm

re: #334 Daniel Ballard

Who supports my thought that tax disclosure should be required for high office? Any opposed?

Mitt Romney

Mitt Romney has been determined to resist releasing his tax returns at least since his bid for Massachusetts governor in 2002 and has been confident that he will never be forced to do so, several current and former Bain executives tell The Huffington Post. Had he thought otherwise, say the sources based on their longtime understanding of Romney, he never would have gone forward with his run for president.

Personally, if true, that's a huge red flag. Someone viewing the release of their tax returns as a complete deal killer must have some goddawful shit in those returns that they feel needs to remain hidden at all costs.

345 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:54:46pm

re: #67 Interesting Times

Reid isn't running for president. Romney is. But hey, if Romney wants to continue this defensive downward slap-fight, let him keep on dancing :)

How sure are you we should hold the Senate to a lower standard than the Presidency? I would look at this as a co-equal branch of government issue. Harry is the Majority Leader after all.

346 compound_Idaho  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:55:38pm

re: #338 Obdicut

I don't think you're getting it. Even if we completely condemn Reid, spit on him, say that what he said was shitty, then nothing changes.

We still want to see Romney's tax returns, and it's still amazingly shitty of him not to release them.

I'd agree to that. I'd rather we simplified the tax code so we couldn't play silly buggers with it, but as long as it's a mixed up mess of privilege, then yeah, it should be disclosed for higher office.

The tax code is an absolute disaster. We should start over. There is very little reason for it is so complicated.

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:55:39pm

re: #332 Amory Blaine

I helped an 18 year old apply for a job at Target for a box boy or something on my computer. The thing took like 2 hours to complete. There must've been a hundred of them phony ethics questions. I mean Jeepers H Crackers man it's a fucking box boy job at the local Target!!!

"If you found out that a coworker was stealing from the store, would you immediately turn them in?"

YES.

"OK, what if you know her husband is out of work, and she's behind on her bills. Still gonna turn her in?"

YES.

"What if she's got cancer? Still gonna turn her in?"

I GUESS SO.

"What if her kid has a rare inoperable cancer, and she's about to be evicted from her apartment, and they're hiding from her abusive ex-husband? Still gonna turn her in?"

FUCK. NO. I MEAN...SHE NEEDS THE MONEY, MAN!

"Thank you for your interest in our company. Unfortunately, you lack the moral fiber to run one of our cash registers..."

I've taken a couple of those. They're unbelievable. Also, very predictable.

348 Amory Blaine  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:55:40pm

I think Harry Reid has been remarkably reserved over the years.

349 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:55:58pm

Lew Rockwell favorite Peter Schiff is Weigel's latest topic:

Democrats “want to play on people’s envy and greed,” he says. “Here’s a rich guy—he’s got money in Switzerland. Oooooh! He doesn’t have some patriotic obligation to send money to Washington, so they can waste it. I applaud people for trying to limit their tax bills. Is [Romney] betting against the dollar? Well, it’s a smart bet. If I were him I’d say, ‘Of course I’m betting against the dollar. I want to change the policy, so I don’t have to bet against it.’ ”

350 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:56:38pm

re: #346 compound_Idaho

The tax code is an absolute disaster. We should start over. There is very little reason for it is so complicated.

It's complicated so that people like Mitt Romney can do what they do.

351 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:56:40pm

re: #342 SpaceJesus

conservatives are all fascist trash

Thread grenade! Ruin for cover!

:-)

352 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:57:02pm

"Get your RINO here"
[Link: news.daylife.com...]
Free bukits!

353 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:57:16pm

re: #348 Amory Blaine

I think Harry Reid has been remarkably reserved over the years.

Apparently the half-century or whatever is up.

354 engineer cat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:57:23pm

I could vote Mitt or Mickey mouse

we're working on the mitt mouse character, but so far all we have is that he has big ears and eats only very expensive cheese

355 Targetpractice  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:57:38pm

re: #351 Daniel Ballard

Thread grenade! Ruin for cover!

:-)

*Jumps on the grenade*

Not all conservatives are fascist. Some of my best friends are conservatives!

//

356 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:57:39pm

re: #346 compound_Idaho

The tax code is an absolute disaster. We should start over. There is very little reason for it is so complicated.

It's complicated so people like Mitt Romney can pay less in taxes.

357 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:57:48pm

I don't understand why it's such a stretch to ask for tax returns. It's not like he's sacrificing anything compared to the people who lost their jobs because of Bain.

Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

358 compound_Idaho  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:58:06pm

re: #350 freetoken

It's complicated so that people like Mitt Romney can do what they do.

So do we agree on starting over?

359 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:58:08pm

re: #310 compound_Idaho


Why should Romney be given a pass to thumb his nose at a campaign tradition that goes back over 40 years? And if he can't even effectively defend his own tax returns, then what kind of president would he make? Whining that your opponent may make political hay out of your returns is a real pussy way to run a campaign. Man up, Romney, you alleged master of the universe businessman. He's got the balls to tell us how great he is due to his moneymaking skills, but he lacks said balls when it comes to telling us what he did with that money...shouldn't that be relevant for a candidate whose main rationale for running is business knowledge?

360 jamesfirecat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:58:53pm

re: #345 Daniel Ballard

How sure are you we should hold the Senate to a lower standard than the Presidency? I would look at this as a co-equal branch of government issue. Harry is the Majority Leader after all.

We already hold senators to a lower standard on other issues, you have to be 35 to be president, but only 30 to be a senator.

361 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:58:53pm

re: #358 compound_Idaho

So do we agree on starting over?

Only if we can have a progressive tax rate with the top being over 50%.

362 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:59:19pm

By the way, my tax proposal:

0% corporate tax

Infinite progressive tax on personal income. So, keep the levels we have now and just add them on through extrapolation. Maybe rejigger the levels so they make a nice curve.

Capital gains taxed at the same level as personal income-- doubling the current rates-- but with inflation taken into account. So if you sell for $100 what you paid $80 for twenty years ago, and that matches inflation, you pay no taxes.

50% estate tax on everything above three million, 80% estate tax on everything above ten million.

Get rid of all tax breaks except for spending on medical needs, education. Phase out the mortgage deduction over time.

Now I just sit back and wait for that Treasury Secretary appointment to roll in.

363 Robert O.  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:59:21pm

Since we are talking about the Olympics, as an aside, New York Times has a very cool presentation today on the progression of the men's 100 m sprint. Take a look - you won't be disappointed!

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

364 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:59:50pm

Romney should hand all of his money to me. I'll count it and then tell people how much he has.

365 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 4:59:51pm

re: #346 compound_Idaho

The tax code is an absolute disaster. We should start over. There is very little reason for it is so complicated.

We should get rid of the tax write off for losses on capital investments and gambling. Eliminate the mortgage interest deduction on second homes. Remove the distinction between earned and unearned income and eliminate the social security salary cap.

366 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:00:25pm

re: #343 Targetpractice

That last part is actually something that could very well happen this year, if the present poll numbers hold til November. It might actually be Obama winning a landslide electoral vote but losing the popular vote to Romney by a razor-thin margin.

That happens, I imagine come December, we'll see a revival of the push for the Electoral College to be "reformed" or just done away with.

Especially from the right, who seemed to have no problems when the reverse happened in 2000. Then again, the left will be conspicuously silent by comparison to their misgivings over the electoral college back in 2000.

367 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:01:15pm

re: #338 Obdicut

I don't think you're getting it.

What "it"? I have said I understand he has tried (and failed) to play his taxes to his advantage. I have said I think there is damaging data in there. And that fact can and should be used against him. We agree about Harry to a at least to a point. And I know you to be a guy that gets the accusation/evidence thing.

What did I miss?

368 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:02:28pm

re: #360 jamesfirecat

Well that still leaves room for 12 years of tax disclosure. Although I could argue the standard should be seven, just on legal precedent.

369 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:04:21pm

re: #366 palomino

Especially from the right, who seemed to have no problems when the reverse happened in 2000. Then again, the left will be conspicuously silent by comparison to their misgivings over the electoral college back in 2000.

QFT. Honest people will see the problem every time, not just when it hurts their guy, or gal. Partisans will let their opinion swing with the political winds of whim and power politics.

370 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:04:44pm

re: #367 Daniel Ballard

Well, I guess i don't get why you keep going on about Reid as though this is a Reid vs. Romney thing. It's not. Reid is largely irrelevant. He pulled a big bit of political histrionics, but he's the sideshow. The real question is what is in Mitt Romney's taxes that he doesn't want the citizens of the US to see.

Reid's claim doesn't really matter, because it would be trivial for Romney to disprove him. Romney can put up. I don't believe the claim Reid made, even without Romney doing that, but I still would like to see Romney's taxes.

371 jamesfirecat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:04:53pm

re: #368 Daniel Ballard

Well that still leaves room for 12 years of tax disclosure. Although I could argue the standard should be seven, just on legal precedent.

Fine, lets talk about tax disclosure, how many years did Sharon Angle disclose?

372 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:05:31pm

re: #362 Obdicut

Infinite progressive tax on personal income.

Gee... here I thought I was being radical with "over 50%".

373 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:05:50pm

re: #366 palomino

Especially from the right, who seemed to have no problems when the reverse happened in 2000. Then again, the left will be conspicuously silent by comparison to their misgivings over the electoral college back in 2000.

I have heard that there is a proposal for states to enact laws that provide that their electoral votes should go to whoever wins the popular vote nationally. If states with 270 EVs enacted this law, we would have direct popular election of the President, and I support that effort. But, in the extremely unlikely event that the President wins the electoral vote and not the popular vote this year, I don't think he should concede the election. After all, both sides are running under the current rules. If they knew going in they would have to win the popular vote instead of the EV, they would run very different races.

374 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:06:32pm

re: #372 freetoken

Gee... here I thought I was being radical with "over 50%".

I like the math of infinite things, and if there is one truth in economics, is that there is diminishing marginal utility.

375 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:07:45pm

re: #370 Obdicut

Aha! I have been misunderstood, likely my own fault. Read my 369, and apply the principle I speak to throughout this discussion. Right or wrong, it's my real point in all these posts today.

if/when I do make partisans uncomfortable, sorry, my goal is to encourage a less partisan thought process.

376 palomino  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:07:58pm

re: #369 Daniel Ballard

QFT. Honest people will see the problem every time, not just when it hurts their guy, or gal. Partisans will let their opinion swing with the political winds of whim and power politics.

Which is why the electoral college probably won't get replaced anytime soon. Constitutional amendments are so hard to pass, and a lot of swing states would oppose abolition of the electoral college because it gives them (FL, OH, VA, IA, NH, NV, etc.) outsized influence relative to their size.

377 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:08:34pm

re: #371 jamesfirecat

I have no idea, she was never getting my vote anyway, not even if I was from Nevada.

Okay I stayed an hour late at work the office in this interesting thread, but my commute and dinner awaits. See you all later.

378 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:09:06pm

re: #374 Obdicut

There is probably no improvement in tax codes coming anyway. We as a nation are mired in an age of indecision and it likely will remain that way for a little while longer.

Maybe, in coming decades, with the pressures of resource competition and agricultural challenges our nation will start to move in a direction again. Yet I fear that such movement will be fascistic in nature, and ugliness will follow.

379 jamesfirecat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:10:30pm

re: #377 Daniel Ballard

I have no idea, she was never getting my vote anyway, not even if I was from Nevada.

If you can not find me proof she disclosed some then I will not care at all about home many Ried has or has not released.

380 dragonath  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:11:52pm

There was a Republican effort to weaken the Electoral College earlier this year.

Could Pennsylvania Republicans end the electoral college as we know it?

The idea is that in Presidential elections the South votes as a bloc, so states like Pennsylvania will not be as important because their electoral votes will be proportional. It is super cynical.

381 b_sharp  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:17:27pm

Any chance we can fast forward to 1975.

382 jaunte  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:17:54pm
383 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:18:03pm

More fun with charter schools:

Louisiana charter school kicks pregnant students out of class

384 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:18:40pm

re: #325 Lidane

Another way they screw you -- by forcing you to put your salary requirements on an application or it will automatically be rejected. You can easily price yourself out of a job without ever knowing it.

I refused to disclose my previous salary on all the job applications that I submitted this year. You know what? I am now making exactly TWICE what I made last year.

385 blueraven  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:20:15pm

re: #165 wrenchwench

'Not very likely' is a very far distance from 'baldfaced lie'. In fact, on the basis of what your excerpt of that article says, I would say, 'entirely possible'.

The whole damn thing is pure speculation. They have NO proof that Reid is lying. They are hacks.

386 Lidane  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:20:59pm

re: #384 Learned Mother of Zion

I refused to disclose my previous salary on all the job applications that I submitted this year. You know what? I am now making exactly TWICE what I made last year.

God, I wish I could do that. I've gotten interest in a few positions but once money comes into the picture, I'm priced out of the job because they don't want to pay shit and I actually have bills to pay. WTF.

I've resisted most applications that demand numbers before they'll consider you. I do my damndest not to talk money unless there's an offer on the table for a job, but companies these days make that really hard.

387 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:23:25pm

re: #386 Lidane

God, I wish I could do that. I've gotten interest in a few positions but once money comes into the picture, I'm priced out of the job because they don't want to pay shit and I actually have bills to pay. WTF.

I've resisted most applications that demand numbers before they'll consider you. I do my damndest not to talk money unless there's an offer on the table for a job, but companies these days make that really hard.

I can thank Obama for bailing out the auto industry. Now there's a huge demand for developers and engineers with automotive experience. All the projects that were put on hold years ago have been released. :)

Also: The auto PAY their interns.

388 freetoken  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:23:50pm

It's right there, on page C15.

[Link: www.delhicharterschool.org...]

389 aagcobb  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:25:27pm

re: #387 Learned Mother of Zion

I can thank Obama for bailing out the auto industry. Now there's a huge demand for developers and engineers with automotive experience. All the projects that were put on hold years ago have been released. :)

Also: The auto PAY their interns.

According to Romney, he deserves credit for that.

390 Patricia Kayden  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:28:57pm

re: #293 LudwigVanQuixote

Good post. But it's not just Black women who are the target of the racism. The Right has gone after immigrants (to them all Mexicans), women (remember Sandra Fluke?), and Muslims (and I guess anyone who can be mistaken for Muslims, i.e., Sikhs, Brown people).

The Right has an "us" against "them" mentality where they'll spew pure hatred at anyone outside their circle. If Michelle was White and married to a Democratic President, she'd still be a target -- look at the nasty comments about Hilary Clinton (remember Limbaugh calling Chelsea a dog?).

It's just ugly out there.

391 Stanghazi  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:58:06pm

re: #366 palomino

Especially from the right, who seemed to have no problems when the reverse happened in 2000. Then again, the left will be conspicuously silent by comparison to their misgivings over the electoral college back in 2000.

I'm ordering my Brooks Brothers suit.

392 Patricia Kayden  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 5:58:36pm

re: #370 Obdicut
Even Republicans are telling Romney to release his taxes, with the latest being Ed Rollins on Fox this Sunday.

393 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:03:53pm

re: #390 Patricia Kayden

Good post. But it's not just Black women who are the target of the racism. The Right has gone after immigrants (to them all Mexicans), women (remember Sandra Fluke?), and Muslims (and I guess anyone who can be mistaken for Muslims, i.e., Sikhs, Brown people).

The Right has an "us" against "them" mentality where they'll spew pure hatred at anyone outside their circle. If Michelle was White and married to a Democratic President, she'd still be a target -- look at the nasty comments about Hilary Clinton (remember Limbaugh calling Chelsea a dog?).

It's just ugly out there.

Thanks and of course you are right.

394 lostlakehiker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:28:42pm

re: #9 lawhawk

It's not the athletes themselves that pick their uniforms/outfits for the gymnastics competition. It's picked by USA Gymnastics. If you have a beef with their outfits/designs, take it up with them - not the individual athletes who kicked ass and won the team all-around.

Seriously though, attacking athletes who can do stuff that 99% of the population can't do? Really? The Chairborne Rangers really have their heads stuck way up there.

It's not 99% that can't do that stuff. It's 99.9999999 percent. Literally, their talent is that far out in the "tail" of the distribution.

395 KettleKat  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:29:41pm

re: #72 Daniel Ballard

Romney's campaign centers on his business experience. All issues of tax evasion aside, how are we supposed to assess his business competence without seeing any kind of official documentation attesting to his earnings? I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for proof.

396 lostlakehiker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:36:14pm

re: #385 blueraven

The whole damn thing is pure speculation. They have NO proof that Reid is lying. They are hacks.

If Reid's charge were true, Romney would be in jail. Reid knows this. Everybody knows this. Reid is in UFO territory with his accusations.

There are ways to disclose a yes-no answer to a specific question without disclosing the entire return to the whole world. Have someone that everybody absolutely trusts read the returns and then answer that one yes-no question. And nothing else.

But we already know the answer.

Reid isn't exactly lying, I guess, because a lie is a statement made with the intent to get somebody else to believe it, while knowing yourself that it's false. Reid can't seriously expect people to really believe that Romney was able to flout the tax law year after year, even when a Democrat was in office.

397 lostlakehiker  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:41:22pm

re: #362 Obdicut

By the way, my tax proposal:

0% corporate tax

Infinite progressive tax on personal income. So, keep the levels we have now and just add them on through extrapolation. Maybe rejigger the levels so they make a nice curve.

Capital gains taxed at the same level as personal income-- doubling the current rates-- but with inflation taken into account. So if you sell for $100 what you paid $80 for twenty years ago, and that matches inflation, you pay no taxes.

50% estate tax on everything above three million, 80% estate tax on everything above ten million.

Get rid of all tax breaks except for spending on medical needs, education. Phase out the mortgage deduction over time.

Now I just sit back and wait for that Treasury Secretary appointment to roll in.

Tax rates on personal income should not exceed 100 percent. That just outlaws further economic activity by any too-productive inventor or artist or what have you. In fact, the rates should be capped quite a bit below that. We could argue about where the line is, 50% or 60% or maybe even 80%, but beyond some point, punitive taxation serves only to prevent economic activity that would have been beneficial to society as well as to the earner and the tax man.

398 sagehen  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 6:58:26pm

re: #397 lostlakehiker

Tax rates on personal income should not exceed 100 percent. That just outlaws further economic activity by any too-productive inventor or artist or what have you. In fact, the rates should be capped quite a bit below that. We could argue about where the line is, 50% or 60% or maybe even 80%, but beyond some point, punitive taxation serves only to prevent economic activity that would have been beneficial to society as well as to the earner and the tax man.

Historical evidence suggests the Laffer Curve peaks between 65 and 90 % -- conservatives believing the lower part of that range, liberals finding the higher end more persuasive.

Knee-jerk idealogues will suggest numbers outside that range, but they have zero evidence.

399 sagehen  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:06:51pm

re: #396 lostlakehiker

If Reid's charge were true, Romney would be in jail. Reid knows this. Everybody knows this. Reid is in UFO territory with his accusations.

There are ways to disclose a yes-no answer to a specific question without disclosing the entire return to the whole world. Have someone that everybody absolutely trusts read the returns and then answer that one yes-no question. And nothing else.

But we already know the answer.

Reid isn't exactly lying, I guess, because a lie is a statement made with the intent to get somebody else to believe it, while knowing yourself that it's false. Reid can't seriously expect people to really believe that Romney was able to flout the tax law year after year, even when a Democrat was in office.

Reid's charge is "somebody who's done business with Bain told me..."

I believe him. I think Romney or one of his partners, being willing to say anything to close a deal, told some prospective client "we're so good I didn't even have to pay taxes for ten years, even with x oodles of earnings..."

If I sell off some stock that used to be worth $40million but it was one of the companies that did poorly so now it's only worth $20million... and the same week I also sell off a winner stock that used to be worth $20M but it went up and now it's worth $40M... I've just liquidated $60M worth of assets, put that much cash in my pocket, but I had 0 capital gains and owe 0 taxes.

400 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:29:52pm

SteelPH
Don't take this as a compliant about the dings. But care to kick this around with me directly a bit?

401 Obdicut  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:51:32pm

re: #397 lostlakehiker

Did you really think I meant for taxes to exceed 100%?

402 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:54:56pm

re: #398 sagehen

Is there a laffer curve with an income overlay? Surely the difference between tax brackets is significant. I'm having a hard time imagining a scenario that has it north of 90% or so but I really have no idea.

403 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 7:57:54pm

re: #395 Kaitlyn R

I never said it's unreasonable to ask. I said it was fine in a couple posts at least. My objection is what Harry Reid said. My point is a proportion between the seriousness of the accusation and the actual evidence is what is called for, at all times. Election or not, GOP or not.

404 Mich-again  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:33:47pm

re: #403 Daniel Ballard

I never said it's unreasonable to ask. I said it was fine in a couple posts at least. My objection is what Harry Reid said. My point is a proportion between the seriousness of the accusation and the actual evidence is what is called for, at all times. Election or not, GOP or not.

Mitt has always promised two years of returns but has only provided one return so far. Any idea when the other one will be available? Or maybe Mitt was lying all along about ever providing the 2nd one?

405 Political Atheist  Mon, Aug 6, 2012 8:42:56pm

re: #404 Mich-again

Mitt has always promised two years of returns but has only provided one return so far. Any idea when the other one will be available? Or maybe Mitt was lying all along about ever providing the 2nd one?

I have no idea, maybe he is lying about that.

406 Jan Smiddy  Tue, Aug 7, 2012 8:16:40am

Little late to the party. Did anyone else note the tiny flag wave? After twirling his prop he promptly dropped it. Direct violation of the flag code along with wearing it as clothing. Another day in opposite world.


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