Live Video: 2012 Democratic Convention, Day 3

Featuring Foo Fighters
Politics • Views: 27,269

[Video moved to newer thread…]

The schedule for tonight:

2012 Democratic National Convention Podium Schedule

Thursday, September 6, 2012

“Americans Coming Together”

Time shown as local – Charlotte, North Carolina, EDT

(Photo: James Keivom, NY Daily News)

4:30 PM – 6:00 PM (LOCAL)

Remarks

The Honorable Kay Hagan, Member of the US Senate, North Carolina

The Honorable Walter Dalton, Lieutenant Governor, North Carolina

The Honorable G.K. Butterfield, Member of the US House of Representatives, North Carolina

The Honorable David Price, Member of the US House of Representatives, North Carolina

The Honorable Mel L. Watt, Member of the US House of Representatives, North Carolina

Remarks

James Rogers, CEO Duke Energy

Live Performance: James Taylor, Singer/Songwriter

Call to Order
The Honorable Antonio R. Villaraigosa, Chair of the 2012 Democratic National Convention Committee; Mayor of Los Angeles, California

Invocation: Reverend Gabriel Salguero, President, National Latino Evangelical Coalition

Presentation of Colors: American Legion Post 400 of Charlotte, North Carolina

Darrell B. Bonapart, Joe Michalic, Robert E. Welch, Marvin R. Weber

Pledge of Allegiance

National Anthem: Marc Anthony, Singer/Songwriter

Progress for People Video: Seniors

American Voices Remarks: Carol Berman

Remarks
The Honorable Donna F. Edwards, Member of the US House of Representatives, Maryland

The Honorable Barney Frank, Member of the US House of Representatives, Massachusetts

In Memoriam Video and Remarks

The Honorable Harvey Gantt, Former Mayor of Charlotte, North Carolina

6:00 PM – 7:00 PM (LOCAL)

The Honorable John Lewis, Member of the US House of Representatives, Georgia

Stronger Together Video: Don’t Ask Don’t Tell

American Voices: Jason Crow

Live Performance: Mary J. Blige, Singer/Songwriter

Remarks

The Honorable Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Chair of the Democratic National Committee; Member of the US House of Representatives, Florida

The Honorable Antonio R. Villaraigosa, Chair of the 2012 Democratic National Convention Committee; Mayor of Los Angeles, California

The Honorable Tammy Baldwin, Candidate for US Senate, Wisconsin, Member of the US House of Representatives, Wisconsin

The Honorable Michael Nutter, Mayor of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Stay Stronger Together Video: Marriage Equality

American Voices: Zach Wahls

7:00 PM – 8:00 PM (LOCAL)

Jim Messina, Campaign Manager, Obama for America

American Heroes Video: Auto Workers

American Voices
Kenyetta Jones, Ryan Case, Ed Meagher, Martha Figueroa, Lucas Beenken, Rob Hach

Vice Presidential Nomination Intro

The Honorable Antonio R. Villaraigosa Chair of the 2012 Democratic National Convention Committee Mayor of Los Angeles, California

Nominating Remarks: Beau Biden, Attorney General of Delaware and Son of Vice President Joe Biden

Vote by Acclamation

Live Performance, Foo Fighters

Remarks

The Honorable James E. Clyburn
Assistant Democratic Leader and Member of the US House of Representatives, South Carolina

Scarlett Johansson and Kerry Washington, Actresses

8:00 PM – 9:00 PM (LOCAL)

Remarks

Caroline Kennedy, Author and Attorney

The Honorable Xavier Becerra Democratic Caucus Vice Chair and Member of the US House of Representatives, California

The Honorable Jennifer Granholm, Former Governor of Michigan

Eva Longoria, Actress

The Honorable Brian Schweitzer, Governor of Montana

The Honorable Charlie Crist, Jr., Former Governor of Florida

Remarks
The Honorable John Kerry, Member of the US Senate, Massachusetts

9:00 PM – 10:00 PM (LOCAL)

Video: Veterans

Remarks
Admiral John B. Nathman, United States Navy, Retired

Introductory Remarks: Angie Flores

Remarks
Dr. Jill Biden, Second Lady of the United States
Vice President Joe Biden Video

Remarks
The Honorable Joe Biden, Vice President of the United States

10:00 PM – 11:00 PM (LOCAL)

Video and Remarks
The Honorable Dick Durbin Member of the US Senate, Illinois
President Barack Obama Video

Remarks
Barack Obama, President of the United States

Celebration
Benediction
His Eminence Timothy Dolan, Roman Catholic Cardinal and Archbishop of New York

Retire Colors
Adjournment

Jump to bottom

282 comments
1 Randall Gross  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:00:32pm

Shockwave flash go boom for Chrome.

2 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:01:12pm

Does this mean that Mitt is Foo?

3 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:03:04pm

Kids' have their back to school night tonight. I'll be checking the vids later.

4 Sionainn  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:06:20pm

I thought the Catholics hated Obama. WTF is Dolan doing there?

5 Blizard  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:08:09pm

re: #1 Randall Gross

Shockwave flash go boom for Chrome.

This happens to me often when using Chrome as well.

6 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:08:21pm

DADT next...hey Republicans...this is what inclusiveness looks like.

7 JamesWI  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:08:25pm

LOL.....someone is butthurt tonight: Asked if he'd watched any of the Democratic convention, including former President Bill Clinton's speech Wednesday night, Romney he hadn't "so far." Asked if he would watch Obama's speech, Romney curtly replied, "Uh, don't plan on it."

He accused Obama of not delivering on plans to create jobs, reduce the deficit and jumpstart the economy. "I think this is a time for him not to start restating new promises but to report on the promises he made," Romney said. "I think he wants a promises reset."

A "promises reset"......that sort of sounds like.....an Etch-a-Sketch moment?

And forget all that stuff Republicans said about how horrible it was that Democrats responded to Republican lies during their convention. Claiming that the other party isn't supposed to "campaign" at that time.

More "Good for me, not for thee" from the GOP.

8 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:09:57pm

Not only do the Democrats talk about the wars, they bring out actual veterans.

9 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:10:52pm

re: #7 JamesWI

LOL.....someone is butthurt tonight: Asked if he'd watched any of the Democratic convention, including former President Bill Clinton's speech Wednesday night, Romney he hadn't "so far." Asked if he would watch Obama's speech, Romney curtly replied, "Uh, don't plan on it."

A "promises reset"......that sort of sounds like.....an Etch-a-Sketch moment?

And forget all that stuff Republicans said about how horrible it was that Democrats responded to Republican lies during their convention. Claiming that the other party isn't supposed to "campaign" at that time.

More "Good for me, not for thee" from the GOP.

Fuck Mitt...he is such a lying, slimy, smarmy sonofabitch.

10 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:11:38pm

re: #9 Gert Fröbe

Fuck Mitt...he is such a lying, slimy sonofabitch.

Mitt's been watching reruns of Jersey Shore all week while he hasn't been campaigning.

11 erik_t  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:12:05pm

Mitt's got people do to the watching for him. Gotta get back to the yacht party.

12 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:12:35pm

Lots of left-wing meat tossing today. Mitt's ad people should mine it for little gems that can be used as part of attack ads. Nothing like pounding the other guy with the words of his own convention.

13 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:12:45pm

Mary J. Blige coming up. Awesome music lineup tonight.

14 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:13:18pm

re: #11 erik_t

Mitt's got people do to the watching for him. Gotta get back to the yacht party.

If its the same guys who told Reince there was no rain in Charlotte, Mitt's going to have a problem.

15 Tigger2  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:14:11pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

Lots of left-wing meat tossing today. Mitt's ad people should mine it for little gems that can be used as part of attack ads. Nothing like pounding the other guy with the words of his own convention.

The Republican Convention was a red meat clusterfuck.

16 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:14:33pm

re: #7 JamesWI

Good phrase "promises reset", and there's no reason for Mitt to watch Obama's speech. He needs to leave that to his campaign people and concentrate on campaigning.

17 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:14:38pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

Lots of left-wing meat tossing today. Mitt's ad people should mine it for little gems that can be used as part of attack ads. Nothing like pounding the other guy with the words of his own convention.

Hell, they can just pick words at random or cut them off mid-sentence. Mitt's already built a whole campaign doing that.

18 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:14:59pm

re: #11 erik_t

Mitt's got people do to the watching for him. Gotta get back to the yacht party.

Mitt is Judge Smails from Caddyshack...

/apologies to the late Ted Knight

19 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:15:12pm

re: #15 Tigger2

Doesn't invalidate the tactic, though.

20 JamesWI  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:15:22pm

re: #15 Tigger2

Like the Republican Convention wasn't a red meat fuck fest.

Democrats' "red meat": "We shouldn't treat gay people and immigrants like second-class citizens"

Republicans' red meat: "We need an AMERICAN as President"

21 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:15:46pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

Lots of left-wing meat tossing today. Mitt's ad people should mine it for little gems that can be used as part of attack ads. Nothing like pounding the other guy with the words of his own convention.

Little gems like, "Mitt Romney is a liar." Well, it's possible...I mean, his campaign is having so much buyer's remorse they might actually start airing attack ads against him as the ones they're using on Obama seem to be backfiring.

22 allegro  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:16:59pm

re: #7 JamesWI

LOL.....someone is butthurt tonight: Asked if he'd watched any of the Democratic convention, including former President Bill Clinton's speech Wednesday night, Romney he hadn't "so far." Asked if he would watch Obama's speech, Romney curtly replied, "Uh, don't plan on it."

A "promises reset"......that sort of sounds like.....an Etch-a-Sketch moment?

And forget all that stuff Republicans said about how horrible it was that Democrats responded to Republican lies during their convention. Claiming that the other party isn't supposed to "campaign" at that time.

More "Good for me, not for thee" from the GOP.

Is this the level of attention we can expect from a Romney presidency? He's in the battle of his life right now and he claims he pays no attention to his opponent, the guy he will be meeting in debates soon? Really? He's either lying again or a truly shitty tactician unwilling to do the homework and research necessary.

23 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:18:23pm

re: #16 Dark_Falcon

Good phrase "promises reset", and there's no reason for Mitt to watch Obama's speech. He needs to leave that to his campaign people and concentrate on campaigning.

Campaigning...yeah, he left his home in New Hampshire and campaigned all the way across the country in...New Hampshire.

[Link: mittromneycentral.com...]

From Concord New Hampshire today, Mitt Romney remarked on what Obama should say tonight...

24 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:18:54pm

Right, how is the DNC not a significant event of the election? He can't be bothered?

25 Blizard  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:19:22pm

re: #22 allegro

Is this the level of attention we can expect from a Romney presidency? He's in the battle of his life right now and he claims he pays no attention to his opponent, the guy he will be meeting in debates soon? Really? He's either lying again or a truly shitty tactician unwilling to do the homework and research necessary.

Or at a very minimum, he certainly doesn't give .02 on what issues Democrats care about. Know your enemy type stuff...

I think he's full of it. He watched it.

26 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:19:25pm

re: #22 allegro

President Obama said he didn't watch the RNC, either...but he was actually travelling from state to state meeting with constituents. Mitt Romney hasn't left New Hampshire.

27 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:19:34pm

Mary J. ripping it up!

28 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:20:43pm

re: #7 JamesWI

Mitt Romney doesn't have to listen to anybody! He knows everything he needs to know. Has since the day he was born and always will.

29 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:21:26pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Doesn't invalidate the tactic, though.

"I told the NAACP that I won't give them free stuff"

"Nobody's asked to see my birth certificate"

"Obama removed the gainful employment stipulation in the welfare requirement"

"Obama stole billions from Medicare"

"Obama doesn't view the word like other Americans"

Tactics!

30 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:22:36pm

re: #29 The Ghost of a Flea

"I told the NAACP that I won't give them free stuff"

"Nobody's asked to see my birth certificate"

"Obama removed the gainful employment stipulation in the welfare requirement"

"Obama stole billions from Medicare"

"Obama doesn't view the word like other Americans"

Those aren't the words I would have used.

31 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:22:41pm

re: #22 allegro

Is this the level of attention we can expect from a Romney presidency? He's in the battle of his life right now and he claims he pays no attention to his opponent, the guy he will be meeting in debates soon? Really? He's either lying again or a truly shitty tactician unwilling to do the homework and research necessary.

Won't defend private citizens against the vile vitriol of the right wing hate machine (Sandra Fluke) either, unwilling to hold a given position long enough to avoid pandering to people who want to hear the exact opposite.

There used to be a word for that: WIMP!

32 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:23:24pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Doesn't invalidate the tactic, though.

Doesn't really justify it either.

33 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:23:25pm

re: #25 Blizard

Or at a very minimum, he certainly doesn't give .02 on what issues Democrats care about. Know your enemy type stuff...

I think he's full of it. He watched it.

And Romney knows he's completely boned; once the debates start, the President's gonna carve him up like Jack the Ripper.

34 Decatur Deb  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:26:11pm

Off to the Lower Alabama Obama cell meeting. Will try to log in if the bar has wifi.

35 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:26:32pm

Debbie Wasserman-Shultz - cancer survivor. Speaking from the heart on Obamacare.

36 Sionainn  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:28:12pm

re: #14 Kragar

If its the same guys who told Reince there was no rain in Charlotte, Mitt's going to have a problem.

There's a story over at Fox Nation about moving everything indoors and showing a photo of Charlotte from a live feed camera...from yesterday.

37 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:29:21pm

At Tulsa we had two nights of weak teabagging leading up to a watery, unsatisfying finish.

At Charlotte, re: #36 Sionainn

There's a story over at Fox Nation about moving everything indoors and showing a photo of Charlotte from a live feed camera...from yesterday.

Fox Nation's motto: "You can't handle the truth!"

38 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:30:18pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

Lots of left-wing meat tossing today. Mitt's ad people should mine it for little gems that can be used as part of attack ads. Nothing like pounding the other guy with the words of his own convention.

Like what? Some obscure delegate? You think American's give a crap about that?

39 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:30:50pm

SMH.

Sununu Thinks Obama Camp Lying About Cost of Michelle Obama's Dress

Former New Hampshire Gov. John Sununu questioned reports that the Tracey Reese dress Michelle Obama wore for her convention address Tuesday night cost $350 on a conference call with reporters Wednesday. Sununu accused the Obama campaign of peddling several lies, including the cost of the dress: "somehow I don't think that's the truth either."

The Obama campaign hasn't released the cost of the dress, but many media outlets have reported that dresses by Tracy Reese generally start around $350. 

40 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:30:50pm

WEATHER SERVICE WIN!

National Hurricane Center: Advisory on Tropical Storm Kirk

ZCZC MIATCDAT1 ALL
TTAA00 KNHC DDHHMM

TROPICAL STORM KIRK DISCUSSION NUMBER 20
NWS NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER MIAMI FL AL112012
1100 AM AST SUN SEP 02 2012

KIRK IS NOT EXPECTED TO LIVE LONG AND PROSPER.

41 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:31:52pm

re: #38 Gus

Like what? Some obscure delegate? You think American's give a crap about that?

Wishful thinking I suspect. The DNC has been remarkably disciplined during this convention.

42 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:32:32pm

re: #38 Gus

Like what? Some obscure delegate? You think American's give a crap about that?

Like John McCain talking about starting wars in Iran, Syria, Iraq (again), China, Russia, etc... Oh, wait...that was just some obscure delegate from the RNC. But since Mitt Romney hasn't given a foreign policy speech of his own, we'll just have to assume that John McCain was speaking with his full support and blessing and that he holds the same views about diplomacy.

43 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:33:01pm

re: #41 PT Barnum

Wishful thinking I suspect. The DNC has been remarkably disciplined during this convention.

Bad people will vote for Obama! Ooga booga! If you vote for Obama you will be like those bad people at the DNC convention!

//

44 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:33:29pm

re: #42 darthstar

Like John McCain talking about starting wars in Iran, Syria, Iraq (again), China, Russia, etc... Oh, wait...that was just some obscure delegate from the RNC. But since Mitt Romney hasn't given a foreign policy speech of his own, we'll just have to assume that John McCain was speaking with his full support and blessing and that he holds the same views about diplomacy.

Iraq again? Already? ;)

45 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:33:41pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

SMH.

Sununu Thinks Obama Camp Lying About Cost of Michelle Obama's Dress

When you can't beat em on the content of their arguments, complain about the cost of their couture.

46 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:34:21pm

re: #40 Kragar

WEATHER SERVICE WIN!

National Hurricane Center: Advisory on Tropical Storm Kirk

Is that seriously in the NWS copy?

If so, that is so full of win!

47 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:34:44pm

Shona Holmes, Canadian Woman Who Went For Treatment In U.S., Appears In Koch Brothers' Anti-Obama Ad

This ad is all over the tv. I can't seem to find a piece of information about it. Maybe someone here can help.

Did Canada's health care pay for her care in the US or did she pay out of pocket?

48 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:34:51pm

re: #46 Gert Fröbe

He's dead Jim!

49 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:35:35pm

re: #40 Kragar

WEATHER SERVICE WIN!

National Hurricane Center: Advisory on Tropical Storm Kirk

Marvelous bit of humor there.

50 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:35:38pm

re: #42 darthstar

Like John McCain talking about starting wars in Iran, Syria, Iraq (again), China, Russia, etc... Oh, wait...that was just some obscure delegate from the RNC. But since Mitt Romney hasn't given a foreign policy speech of his own, we'll just have to assume that John McCain was speaking with his full support and blessing and that he holds the same views about diplomacy.

They should start a draft again but only for people that vote for Romney. The draft wouldn't go into effect until Romney starts his first war. No age or sex limits.

51 Big Joe  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:36:14pm

re: #47 Amory Blaine

Shona Holmes, Canadian Woman Who Went For Treatment In U.S., Appears In Koch Brothers' Anti-Obama Ad

This ad is all over the tv. I can't seem to find a piece of information about it. Maybe someone here can help.

Did Canada's health care pay for her care in the US or did she pay out of pocket?

If it's the story I'm thinking about Canada paid for it.

52 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:36:30pm

re: #44 Gus

Iraq again? Already? ;)

Yep...McCain's a crazy old coot who makes Clint Eastwood look sentient by comparison.

53 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:36:42pm

re: #46 Gert Fröbe

Is that seriously in the NWS copy?

If so, that is so full of win!

Check the link, its the actual official report.

54 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:36:58pm

re: #50 Gus

They should start a draft again but only for people that vote for Romney. The draft wouldn't go into effect until Romney starts his first war. No age or sex limits.

Starting wars is easy. Getting out of them is a bitch.

55 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:37:51pm

re: #53 Kragar

Check the link, its the actual official report.

I saw that; that is hilarious!

56 Blizard  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:38:07pm

re: #45 PT Barnum

When you can't beat em on the content of their arguments, complain about the cost of their couture.

The cost of all the fine suits far outweighs the cost of one dress. Jeeze people, get it right!

//

Though, I'm personally not a fan of jacquard, it has a heavy hand. It did look great on her though. And all the compliments on her dress, her demeanor, her speech...it just riles the red base, don't it. They can't stand a woman splurging once in awhile for a nice dress and dominating in it at the same time.

57 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:40:01pm

re: #33 Gert Fröbe

Have an issue with what I said, Dark?

Don't hide behind your dinger, give me a reason.

58 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:40:02pm

re: #56 Blizard

The cost of all the fine suits far outweighs the cost of one dress. Jeeze people, get it right!

//

Though, I'm personally not a fan of jacquard, it has a heavy hand. It did look great on her though. And all the compliments on her dress, her demeanor, her speech...it just riles the red base, don't it. They can't stand a woman splurging once in awhile for a nice dress and dominating in it at the same time.

I thought she looked great! I don't have an issue how much the dress cost as it has nothing to do with what she was saying. Sunnunu is trying to hold up red herrings and just smells like bad fish as a result.

59 JamesWI  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:40:20pm

re: #38 Gus

Like what? Some obscure delegate? You think American's give a crap about that?

He's just desperate to find any "positives" for his side. Even he can probably see the writing on the wall at this point. The fact that he was lurking but not commenting after Clinton's speech last night says he couldn't find anything.

60 Jadewater  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:41:01pm

re: #47 Amory Blaine

Shona Holmes, Canadian Woman Who Went For Treatment In U.S., Appears In Koch Brothers' Anti-Obama Ad

This ad is all over the tv. I can't seem to find a piece of information about it. Maybe someone here can help.

Did Canada's health care pay for her care in the US or did she pay out of pocket?

She's the woman that claimed she was diagnosed with brain cancer and that Ontario wouldn't pay to have it removed. She didn't have it. She had some benign cyst removed somewhere in the states.

61 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:42:57pm

re: #60 Jadewater

She's the woman that claimed she was diagnosed with brain cancer and that Ontario wouldn't pay to have it removed. She didn't have it. She had some benign cyst removed somewhere in the states.

She was in one ad, and I'll bet she'll be in tumor.

62 Jadewater  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:43:26pm

eg. It wasn't the medical emergency that she and the repubs using her 'story' made it out to be. Apparently she would have been treated in Canada just not in an 'omg cancer death type' emergency procedure.

63 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:45:22pm

So Canada paid to treat her in the US. What an asshole.

64 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:45:22pm

Image: 418779_10151060914841022_1136113887_n.jpg

65 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:45:30pm

This guy's a real Nutter.

//

66 Jadewater  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:46:05pm

re: #63 Amory Blaine

So Canada paid to treat her in the US. What an asshole.

No they didn't. She paid over 100 grand to have it done herself.

67 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:46:28pm

re: #62 Jadewater

eg. It wasn't the medical emergency that she and the repubs using her 'story' made it out to be. Apparently she would have been treated in Canada just not in an 'omg cancer death type' emergency procedure.

So in other words, she didn't like a system where she couldn't cut in line, so she went elsewhere. I don't see a problem with that myself, but she shouldn't make it out to be more than it is.

68 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:47:01pm

re: #64 darthstar

Image: 418779_10151060914841022_1136113887_n.jpg

Sure, all that sounds good, but Joe Walsh was the FRC Family man of the year and is delinquent in his child support payments.

Wait a second...

69 Amory Blaine  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:47:07pm

re: #66 Jadewater

No they didn't. She paid over 100 grand to have it done herself.

ahh ok. Thanks.

70 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:48:40pm

Uh oh. He said Romney said "class size doesn't matter." We're doomed!

But did Romney really say class sizes don't matter?

The answer is no.

Talking to a group of Philadelphia teachers in May, Romney said, "If you had a class size of five, that would be terrific. If you have a class size of 50, that would be impossible."

71 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:48:44pm

re: #61 PT Barnum

She was in one ad, and I'll bet she'll be in tumor.

*groan*

72 Jadewater  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:49:08pm

re: #67 PT Barnum

So in other words, she didn't like a system where she couldn't cut in line, so she went elsewhere. I don't see a problem with that myself, but she shouldn't make it out to be more than it is.

Yeah pretty much. She was told there would be a few months wait. (Probably so people with real life cancer=death problems) could get theirs done I guess. She however HAD BRAIN CANCER AND OMG THE GOVT WAS GOING TO KILL HER SOSHILIZED MEDICINE ELEVENTY!!" Hence the ads. They is lying.

73 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:50:16pm

re: #66 Jadewater

No they didn't. She paid over 100 grand to have it done herself.

That's nice if you can afford it. Most people can't.

74 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:50:50pm

re: #70 Gus

Uh oh. He said Romney said "class size doesn't matter." We're doomed!

Hmm.

"I came into office and talked to people and said, 'What can we do to improve our schools?'" Romney said at his Thursday event. "And a number of folks said we need smaller classroom sizes, that will make the biggest difference."

Romney went on to cite a study that showed no correlation between classroom size and performance, naming schools in Cambridge, Massachusetts as an example.

"The schools in the district with the smallest classroom sizes had students performing in the bottom 10%," Romney said. "Just getting smaller classrooms didn't seem to be the key."

75 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:51:05pm

re: #71 Gert Fröbe

*groan*

Thanks. I'm here all week.

76 Jadewater  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:52:18pm

re: #73 PT Barnum

That's nice if you can afford it. Most people can't.

Well she tried to make a big deal out of the fact that she had to remortgage her house or something like that.

My thought when the story came out a few years back during the US health bill debate...'well isn't that a pretty common thing for people to have to do in the US already?"

77 CuriousLurker  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:52:37pm

re: #39 Charles Johnson

SMH.

Sununu Thinks Obama Camp Lying About Cost of Michelle Obama's Dress

Seriously? I don't remember anyone pricing Ann Romney's RNC dress...

78 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:53:40pm

Heh - Zach Wahls on having lesbian parents: "I'm awesome at putting the seat down."

79 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:54:37pm

re: #78 Charles Johnson

Heh - Zach Wahls on having lesbian parents: "I'm awesome at putting the seat down."

Not putting the seat down can lead to a violent death.

//

80 Blizard  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:56:23pm

re: #79 Gus

Not putting the seat down can lead to a violent death.

//

Not really violent but sinking all the way down into the toilet water in the middle of the night is really really gross and unnerving.

81 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:56:46pm

re: #79 Gus

Not putting the seat down can lead to a violent death.

//

I just use the shower, much easier...

82 Jadewater  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:56:48pm

re: #78 Charles Johnson

Heh - Zach Wahls on having lesbian parents: "I'm awesome at putting the seat down."

Speaking of seats up and down. I put some cleaning stuff in my toilet yesterday evening and forgot about it.

My middle of the night bathroom run (I never bother with the light) was NOT FUN!

I only have myself to blame.....

83 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:57:10pm

re: #81 Kragar

I just use the shower, much easier...

Just have a urinal put in. //

84 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:57:45pm

re: #76 Jadewater

Well she tried to make a big deal out of the fact that she had to remortgage her house or something like that.

My thought when the story came out a few years back during the US health bill debate...'well isn't that a pretty common thing for people to have to do in the US already?"

She had a choice as to whether to remortgage her house. Her lack of patience (understandable under the circumstances) is not an indictment of making the US health system more like Canada.

85 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:58:50pm

Reince trying to pee in the punchbowl again...

86 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 3:59:34pm

re: #79 Gus

Not putting the seat down can lead to a violent death.

//

No different than living with a mom and two sisters. (knows from experience)

87 Big Joe  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:00:28pm

re: #86 PT Barnum

No different than living with a mom and two sisters. (knows from experience)

My wife couldn't train me but my daughters sure did.

88 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:00:43pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

Reince trying to pee in the punchbowl again...

[Embedded content]

Meanwhile, the RNC showed everyone the GOP had an extra chair if anyone needed one.

89 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:02:46pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

Reince trying to pee in the punchbowl again...

[Embedded content]

He is watching the DNC, yes? Not that sad little travesty his party put on last week, offering warmed-over "trickle down" and 4 years worth of Obama hatred?

90 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:03:48pm

I'm convinced 'Reince Priebus' is an anagram for something evil.

91 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:03:51pm

re: #89 Targetpractice

He is watching the DNC, yes? Not that sad little travesty his party put on last week, offering warmed-over "trickle down" and 4 years worth of Obama hatred?

warmed over trickle down was what he was doing in the punchbowl.

92 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:04:54pm

Shorter answer to the GOP... Don't trickle down on my head and tell me it's a warm shower when it's just you pissing on me.

93 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:04:57pm

re: #91 PT Barnum

warmed over trickle down was what he was doing in the punchbowl.

I thought it smelled funny.

94 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:05:05pm

Scribe Pee Ruin
Bicep Risen Rue

95 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:05:25pm

re: #93 Targetpractice

I thought it smelled funny.

It's always asparagus season in the GOP.

96 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:05:38pm

re: #74 Gus

"The schools in the district with the smallest classroom sizes had students performing in the bottom 10%," Romney said. "Just getting smaller classrooms didn't seem to be the key."

Nobody's ever said that having smaller class sizes eliminates the possibility for individual students in those classes to test in the bottom 10%. This is a classic example of a politician using statistics to misinform the electorate through a bait and switch. His typically undereducated conservative target audience hears that and assumes he's actually saying something about average class performance when he's doing nothing of the kind. All he's doing is cherry picking the worst performing individual students, which exist everywhere, and characterizing smaller class sizes by the fact that they still exist.

97 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:05:40pm

re: #90 Major Tom

I'm convinced 'Reince Priebus' is an anagram for something evil.

Reince is... different. And I'm not talking about his name.

98 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:05:43pm

re: #77 CuriousLurker

Seriously? I don't remember anyone pricing Ann Romney's RNC dress...

She has a t-shirt that cost triple what that dress was.

99 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:05:48pm

re: #94 Major Tom

Crib Seep Urine

100 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:06:04pm

re: #99 freetoken

Crib Seep Urine

It's fun, no?

101 Blizard  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:06:10pm

re: #94 Major Tom

Scribe Pee Ruin
Bicep Risen Rue

Instead of Words with Friends, it's Words with Priebus

102 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:06:19pm

Columbia Journalism Review:When factcheckers get trigger-happy
A checklist to help journalists decide when to take aim

Is there such a thing as too much factchecking? Factcheck.org described former President Bill Clinton’s speech to the Democratic convention Wednesday evening as a “fact-checker’s nightmare” in part because, “with few exceptions… his stats checked out.” Rather than concede that it had little material to work with, however, The Associated Press manufactured a “fact check” of Clinton that focused far too heavily on omitted context and possible counter-arguments to his opinions rather than untruths or errors—and even managed to work in a gratuitous Monica Lewinsky reference that invoked Clinton’s reputation for factual slipperiness.
...
The debate over Ryan’s recreational habits became even more inane yesterday when The Atlantic’s James Fallows published reader speculation that Ryan was lying back in April 2009 about his record of climbing mountains with 14,000-foot elevations in Colorado—a claim that was both trivial and apparently wrong.
...
As factchecking moves closer to the journalistic mainstream, it’s important that journalists are careful in what they label as “factchecks” and what statements they choose to scrutinize. Otherwise, the media could dilute and devalue a practice that should be an important part of campaign coverage.

103 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:06:36pm

re: #94 Major Tom

Scribe Pee Ruin
Bicep Risen Rue

Pubic Nee Riser

104 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:06:44pm

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

Fool 'em with numbers.

105 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:06:52pm

re: #86 PT Barnum

No different than living with a mom and two sisters. (knows from experience)

Swim in a sea of estrogen, did you?

///

106 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:07:13pm

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

Nobody's ever said that having smaller class sized eliminates the possibility for individual students in that class to test in the bottom 10%. This is a classic example of a politician using statistics to misinform the electorate through a bait and switch. His typically undereducated conservative target audience hears that and assumes he's actually saying something about average class performance when he's doing nothing of the kind. All he's doing is cherry picking the worst performing individual students, which exist everywhere, and characterizing smaller class sizes by the fact that they still exist.

Yeah. It's not a direct quote but that is his basic conclusion. I was listening to a teacher talk the other day. Class size matters.

107 Jadewater  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:07:23pm

re: #84 PT Barnum

She had a choice as to whether to remortgage her house. Her lack of patience (understandable under the circumstances) is not an indictment of making the US health system more like Canada.

Oh I agree. Waiting to get something done can suck, especially if it's elective surgery. I had to wait 4 painful months to a get knee fixed because although a big issue it wasn't an emergency. I did not however have to worry one wit about what it was going to cost me or pay beyond the 30 a month for some extended medical I got through my job at the time.

However when I did wake up on day with a great pain in my groin which within hours was diagnosed as a hernia and an emergency I was in surgery in less then 24 hours. This was in a rural area and the doctor my local emergency department sent me to (2 hours away) waited past his normal office hours for me to get there and the hospital scheduled me in before all of the other planned surgeries the next day.

It ended up that it wasn't a hernia but a gland that super swelled for some reason. Not something that was easily figured out before they opened me up but yeah, even so I couldn't have gotten better gov't funded care in that instance.

108 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:07:41pm

This could be an internet meme... how do you apply for one? //

109 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:07:49pm

re: #105 Gert Fröbe

Swim in a sea of estrogen, did you?

///

Probably explains why I've only had sons. :)

110 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:07:54pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Speaking of the AP having a need to write something, anything, here's a new AP story that tries just that:

Not heard in Charlotte: TARP, stimulus, climate

111 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:08:15pm

re: #85 Charles Johnson

Reince trying to pee in the punchbowl again...

[Embedded content]

I think someone dropped the lid on his head while he was drinking out of it one too many times.

112 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:09:28pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Fact checkers are also politically motivated in news shocker.

113 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:09:31pm

Obama’s ad claims that "Mitt Romney says class sizes don’t matter."

That's pretty much what he has said, saying that Massachusetts data "showed that classroom size was not relevant in my state to how well the kids were doing."

We rate the claim True.

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

114 Mr. Crankypants  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:09:51pm

Bo Biden is finalizing the nomination for his dad.

115 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:12:56pm

re: #110 freetoken

Speaking of the AP having a need to write something, anything, here's a new AP story that tries just that:

Not heard in Charlotte: TARP, stimulus, climate

I don;t know, I suppose it's fair game on some level. Although it's not really important a lot of people made a big deal that RNC didn't mention Afghanistan or whatever. Although these conventions are just window dressing for public display, what they chose to display or not is open to discussion and criticism. It's not a big deal but it says something about the desired focus of the event.

116 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:13:02pm

Is it possible to exist in Europe without consuming alcohol and becoming intoxicated as a result?

Survey says no.

117 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:15:55pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

As these "conventions" continue to change into entertainment events - soon I expect there to me other types of performance art than just small bands - the nature of the American politics has to be questioned.

We really are seeing the result of the TV generation, post 1960's, where that revolutionary style of visual entertainment has defined more about us than could have been envisioned back in the 30's when it was being designed.

118 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:16:28pm

re: #113 Gus

Obama’s ad claims that "Mitt Romney says class sizes don’t matter."

That's pretty much what he has said, saying that Massachusetts data "showed that classroom size was not relevant in my state to how well the kids were doing."

We rate the claim True.

[Link: www.politifact.com...]

Which I got from here.

Uhhhh. Misleading?

119 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:16:58pm

Someday perhaps we'll select our leaders through shows like America's Next Top Executive, or MasterPolitician.

120 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:17:20pm

re: #118 Gus

Which I got from here.

[Embedded content]

Uhhhh. Misleading?

Saying I have a death star in orbit is misleading.

121 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:17:44pm

re: #120 Varek Raith

Saying I have a death star in orbit is misleading.

Why? What is it a space ship?

122 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:18:10pm

re: #119 freetoken

Someday perhaps we'll select our leaders through shows like America's Next Top Executive, or MasterPolitician.

Takeshi's Castle.

123 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:18:31pm

re: #119 freetoken

Someday perhaps we'll select our leaders through shows like America's Next Top Executive, or MasterPolitician.

The Hunger Games, only interesting.

Now who believes in the right to bear arms? //

124 Big Joe  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:18:44pm

re: #110 freetoken

Speaking of the AP having a need to write something, anything, here's a new AP story that tries just that:

Not heard in Charlotte: TARP, stimulus, climate

I've seen all three talked about at the convention. They really are doing a poor job of watching the convention.

125 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:19:13pm

re: #120 Varek Raith

Saying I have a death star in orbit is misleading.

I have a death star, a supergun and a neutron bomb.

In my pants.

126 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:19:27pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Columbia Journalism Review:When factcheckers get trigger-happy
A checklist to help journalists decide when to take aim

Ahh, OK then, Clinton should have just said "I did not have sex with Mitt Romney!" Then Romney would be well and truly fucked, even if not in fact by Clinton himself. :p

///

127 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:19:28pm

re: #123 Major Tom

The Hunger Games, only interesting.

I watched that recently...wasn't a bad movie. Kids killing kids...great entertainment! Seriously, though...I thought the teen actors were pretty good for the most part.

128 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:19:37pm

re: #125 iossarian

I have a death star, a supergun and a neutron bomb.

In my pants.

You should get those checked out.

129 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:20:02pm

re: #128 Major Tom

You should get those checked out.

I do.

Regularly.

By nurses.

130 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:20:17pm

re: #127 darthstar

I watched that recently...wasn't a bad movie. Kids killing kids...great entertainment! Seriously, though...I thought the teen actors were pretty good for the most part.

I liked the film... I just had to completely suspend disbelief to get through it.

131 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:20:17pm

Cribs Pee Urine

What an ironic anagram for these days.

132 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:20:24pm

re: #123 Major Tom

The Hunger Games, only interesting.

Um, okay...

133 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:21:02pm

Bin Rices Rupee

134 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:21:19pm

Rev. Al: We've gone from Jim Crow voting laws to James Crow, Jr. Esquire voting laws.

LOL!

135 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:21:33pm

BTW, heeeeey everyone.

136 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:22:41pm

re: #135 Stanley Sea

BTW, heeeeey everyone.

I've done nothing!

137 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:22:42pm

re: #113 Gus

Good for them, but you'll notice that what Politifact doesn't do is go on to dissect the incredibly specious basis for Romney's claim. Only a complete asshole would rate the overall effectiveness of smaller class sizes by a single district's inability to completely prevent every last student from testing in the bottom 10%.

This is how Republicans operate though. They use a technically true but meaningless finding as the basis for making inferences that the finding in no way supports. They can get away with this because their supporters are by and large either incredibly stupid, irredeemably mendacious, or both.

138 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:23:10pm
139 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:23:48pm

Not totally off topic - a new science paper raises some interesting questions:

Early Cannibalism Tied to Territorial Defense?

The earliest known instance of cannibalism among hominids occurred roughly 800,000 years ago. The victims, mainly children, may have been eaten as part of a strategy to defend territories against neighbors, researchers report online in the Journal of Human Evolution. [...]


The cannibalism in question was discovered in the Gran Dolina cave site of Spain’s Atapuerca Mountains. Eudald Carbonell of the University of Rovira and Virgili in Spain and colleagues found evidence of butchering on bones belonging to Homo antecessor, a controversial species that lived in Europe as early as 1.2 million years ago. Because no other hominid species has been found in the region at the same time as the butchered bones, the victims must have been eaten by their own kind, the team concluded in 2010 in the journal Current Anthropology (PDF).

[...]

140 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:24:41pm

re: #127 darthstar

I watched that recently...wasn't a bad movie. Kids killing kids...great entertainment! Seriously, though...I thought the teen actors were pretty good for the most part.

Read the books. They are definitely aimed at our war-as-entertainment culture.

The third book, Mockingjay, should not even remotely be considered Young Adult Fiction. It is military science fiction, and the body count is horrific. Suzanne Collins is making a statement...and war is not pretty, the "good guys" are not always good and even the survivors may not come home intact.

141 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:24:56pm

re: #136 Varek Raith

I've done nothing!

Not believable.

142 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:25:22pm

re: #137 goddamnedfrank

They can get away with this because their supporters are by and large either incredibly stupid, irredeemably mendacious, or both.

I've met a few intelligent and truthful Republican voters who cling to the notion that their party represents a kind of rugged honest western American truthful magnificence.

A lot of self-delusion going on beyond the stupidity and mendaciousness.

143 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:26:53pm

When President Obama took office, it became as dangerous to be Al Qaeda's #34 as it did to be #2.

144 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:27:24pm

re: #130 Major Tom

I liked the film... I just had to complete suspend disbelief to get through it.

Again, the story is aimed at our culture. It is a critique of the United States seen through a cracked lens. War and death as reality tv, while the 99% serve the entitled and oblivious 1%

Naming the capital "Panem"...Latin for bread after the phrase "bread and circuses" should have been the tip off.

145 Kragar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:27:50pm

Image: fThn60KxKkih5Sid1h3uIA2.jpg

heh

146 Tigger2  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:27:52pm

re: #143 darthstar

When President Obama took office, it became as dangerous to be Al Qaeda's #34 as it did to be #2.

[Embedded content]

And #1 once.

147 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:27:57pm

Damn Foofighters.

148 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:28:20pm

re: #140 celticdragon

Read the books. They are definitely aimed at our war-as-entertainment culture.

The third book, Mockingjay, should even remotely be considered Young Adult Fiction. It is military science fiction, and the body count is horrific. Suzanne Collins is making a statement...and war is not pretty, the "good guys" are not always good and even the survivors may not come home intact.

Hmm, I think I know him.

149 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:29:17pm

Damn good song.

150 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:30:27pm

It's not a subtle point in the film, and that's not my issue. It's the thousands of acres of forest, and starvation. It's the ability to just create something out of thin air, and the rampant scarcity... Maybe these things are better explained in the books, or are being saved for plot color in future movies, but I didn't get much of an explanation in the film. It was hard to believe a society like that could/would exist is all i'm sayin.

151 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:30:30pm

re: #117 freetoken

As these "conventions" continue to change into entertainment events - soon I expect there to me other types of performance art than just small bands - the nature of the American politics has to be questioned.

We really are seeing the result of the TV generation, post 1960's, where that revolutionary style of visual entertainment has defined more about us than could have been envisioned back in the 30's when it was being designed.

I think that's correct but there's also another dimension. There's always been the silly and simple angle to politics: dubious claims, factually challenged ads, silly conventions, gotcha sound bites etc. but there also used to be a more serious side to be found. I recently rewatched Buckley debating Chomsky (it's worth watching just a few minutes to remember what adult discussions used to look like). Although Hitchens was more bombastic he was also a holdover of the era of more serious adult debate which doesn't really exist anymore. Although the wingnuts have been more open in abandoning their intellectuals I think the problem is widespread in modern culture. There's not much open honest exchange of political ideas. It's been abandoned in favor of simplistic populism and showmanship.

152 God of Binders with Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:31:38pm

re: #143 darthstar

When President Obama took office, it became as dangerous to be Al Qaeda's #34 as it did to be #2.

[Embedded content]

BECAUSE OF BUSH!!!

153 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:32:41pm

Foo Fighters! :)

154 God of Binders with Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:32:49pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

I think that's correct but there's also another dimension. There's always been the silly and simple angle to politics: dubious claims, factually challenged ads, silly conventions, gotcha sound bites etc. but there also used to be a more serious side to be found. I recently rewatched Buckley debating Chomsky (it's worth watching just a few minutes to remember what adult discussions used to look like). Although Hitchens was more bombastic he was also a holdover of the era of more serious adult debate which doesn't really exist anymore. Although the wingnuts have been more open in abandoning their intellectuals I think the problem is widespread in modern culture. There's not much open honest exchange of political ideas. It's been abandoned in favor of simplistic populism and showmanship.

In summary, bumper-sticker politics.

155 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:33:10pm

re: #142 iossarian

I've met a few intelligent and truthful Republican voters who cling to the notion that their party represents a kind of rugged honest western American truthful magnificence.

A lot of self-delusion going on beyond the stupidity and mendaciousness.

As I trawl the GOP/Conservative sites, I'm detecting what I perceive of as a mounting, though quiet, hysteria. I think perhaps unconsciously, they're bracing themselves for a loss.

Conventions are interesting, but more for political junkies. The debates are what's gonna count. If Romney comes off poorly, he won't win and though the GOP/Conservatives don't like to address it, I feel they have a fear that President Obama might end up wiping the floor with Mitt during the debates.

As to polling, I myself will be looking at polls more seriously after the debates; if Romney is ahead at that point, he'll likely win. If President Obama is ahead, then it's four more years.

And that's when the wingnuts will lose it completely.

156 Jadewater  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:34:59pm

re: #150 Major Tom

It's not a subtle point in the film, and that's not my issue. It's the thousands of acres of forest, and starvation. It's the ability to just create something out of thin air, and the rampant scarcity... Maybe these things are better explained in the books, or are being saved for plot color in future movies, but I didn't get much of an explanation in the film. It was hard to believe a society like that could/would exist is all i'm sayin.

I would say it's definitely explained more in the books. I just saw the movie the other day and while I thought it was decent I don't think I would have looked at it in the same way if I hadn't read the books and knew about all the details behind it. The movie followed the book quite well but it left out a whole lot.

157 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:35:09pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

also interesting to catch the quick glimpses of the audience in the Chomsky-Buckley discussion. Those are not grey haired old folks. Young people in their 20's and early 30's.

158 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:35:15pm

re: #155 Dr Lizardo

As I trawl the GOP/Conservative sites, I'm detecting what I perceive of as a mounting, though quiet, hysteria. I think perhaps unconsciously, they're bracing themselves for a loss.

And thus getting ready for a 1000 years of horror indescribable.

159 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:35:27pm

re: #155 Dr Lizardo

I think Obama can't lose at this point, barring some (improbable) global economic meltdown. And I say that as a fairly pessimistic left-wing voter.

Romney is just that unlikeable.

The real question concerns Congress - both chambers.

160 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:36:12pm

Foo Fighters - Times Like These

Youtube Video
161 Blizard  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:36:38pm

You think everyone (not just Dems) in the south would be hootin' and hollerin' at Obama's success in short order of finding/killing OBL and others.

162 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:37:18pm

Foo Fighters. I saw them live once... In a very small venue, like a decade ago. It was very fun, everyone knew the words, hot and sweaty, lots a dancin... but they (kinda lamely) threatened to leave the stage twice, stopped the show-twice, if people 'didn't stop dancing so hard.' I like a lot of their songs, but I'll never forget that.

163 allegro  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:37:47pm

Ashley Judd, delegate from TN is as smart and eloquent as she is gorgeous. Just did a short interview with her on CNN. She should have been on stage with a speech.

164 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:37:55pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

...There's not much open honest exchange of political ideas. It's been abandoned in favor of simplistic populism and showmanship.

This is one place where the UK style of Parliamentary debate serves them better than what we do here in the US - run very slick TV adverts.

165 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:38:19pm

re: #158 freetoken

And thus getting ready for a 1000 years of horror indescribable.

Iä! Iä! Cthulhu Obama fhtagn!!

166 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:39:24pm

re: #127 darthstar

I watched that recently...wasn't a bad movie. Kids killing kids...great entertainment! Seriously, though...I thought the teen actors were pretty good for the most part.

Took me three tries to get through to the ending, I kept losing interest and doing other more interesting things like washing dishes. I finally gritted my teeth and sat down and watched the entire rip end to end, and in the final analysis still could not have cared less who "won."

Personally I find the YouTube "Survival games" (a Hunger Games ripoff MineCraft survival deathmatch) much more entertaining, AntVenom is now reigning champion three times in a row!

167 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:39:30pm

Oratory in America now finds refuge in only two ponds - the homiletics of evangelical/fundamentalist churches, and on TV talk/comedy shows.

As a society we don't do serious public discussion on governance.

168 Jadewater  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:39:39pm

re: #156 Jadewater

I would say it's definitely explained more in the books. I just saw the movie the other day and while I thought it was decent I don't think I would have looked at it in the same way if I hadn't read the books and knew about all the details behind it. The movie followed the book quite well but it left out a whole lot.

Just to add, the movie didn't get into much detail as to why things were set up as they were. It showed the wall surrounding District 12 but only alluded to how the capital controlled it and the population. In the book a whole lot of the first part covers that aspect as well as Katniss and Gale's expeditions in and out. The movie pretty much jumped right to the lottery without all of that detail.

169 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:39:45pm
170 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:40:02pm

re: #159 iossarian

I think Obama can't lose at this point, barring some (improbable) global economic meltdown. And I say that as a fairly pessimistic left-wing voter.

Romney is just that unlikeable.

The real question concerns Congress - both chambers.

I never say "never"; there's things that can happen, of course.

I predict the GOP will hold the House, but with losses, and the Democratic Party will hold the Senate.

Just my gut feeling.

171 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:40:55pm

re: #166 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You

Antvenom...funny...that's what I always called my grandmother.

172 erik_t  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:41:48pm

re: #169 darthstar

Worldwide Foo Apology Tour

173 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:42:54pm

re: #170 Dr Lizardo

I never say "never"; there's things that can happen, of course.

I predict the GOP will hold the House, but with losses, and the Democratic Party will hold the Senate.

Just my gut feeling.

I agree that's the most likely outcome. Interesting that the Republican House majority, in that scenario, would be even more radical (since those would be the loons retaining their seats).

Of course, by "interesting", I mean "horrifying".

174 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:43:35pm

Charlotte’s Most Central Chick-fil-A Hasn’t Been Open All Week

... Although Chick-fil-A wasn't the building's only shuttered shop when we stopped by early this afternoon, a Walgreens and Starbucks within eyesight of the chicken mongers were open for business as usual. A security guard told us he had no idea why the store was closed. Maybe Chick-fil-A just figured it wasn't worth the headache.

Chickens.

175 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:43:56pm

It could just be me but, 'Obama Cares' is just a bit too big brother-ish sounding to me.

176 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:43:57pm

re: #150 Major Tom

It's not a subtle point in the film, and that's not my issue. It's the thousands of acres of forest, and starvation. It's the ability to just create something out of thin air, and the rampant scarcity... Maybe these things are better explained in the books, or are being saved for plot color in future movies, but I didn't get much of an explanation in the film. It was hard to believe a society like that could/would exist is all i'm sayin.

The technology used by the game-makers is never explored from an engineering standpoint (for that matter, nobody explains FTL drives in science fiction, but faster than light travel is a given). As far as the thousands of acres of forest etc, the movie takes place several hundred years in the future after the fall of modern society. Most of North America is in ruins and has been reclaimed by nature (like Germany during the Hundred Years War) and parts of it are under water after the ice caps melted. Starvation is a control (see Stalin's policy towards the Ukraine during collectivisation) and along with the Games, is used to keep the rebellious districts in line.

177 Blizard  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:44:00pm

I got caught in a mini-mosh at Foo Fighters in Denver back in, I dunno, 1994 ish? It was at the Paramount. Two black eyes. Needless to say it was an awesome show.

178 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:44:26pm
179 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:44:29pm

re: #177 Blizard

I got caught in a mini-mosh at Foo Fighters in Denver back in, I dunno, 1994 ish? It was at the Paramount. Two black eyes. Needless to say it was an awesome show.

that's what I'm talking about.

180 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:44:37pm

Listening to MSNBC on Sirius...one of the big advertisers for their streaming is AshleyMadison dot com. They've got a new jingle - Ashley Madison Girl...not as good as the Ashley Madison Man song where the guy travels "working hard for his family" and "needs a little company to maintain his sanity..."

181 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:45:35pm

re: #155 Dr Lizardo

As I trawl the GOP/Conservative sites, I'm detecting what I perceive of as a mounting, though quiet, hysteria. I think perhaps unconsciously, they're bracing themselves for a loss.

Conventions are interesting, but more for political junkies. The debates are what's gonna count. If Romney comes off poorly, he won't win and though the GOP/Conservatives don't like to address it, I feel they have a fear that President Obama might end up wiping the floor with Mitt during the debates.

As to polling, I myself will be looking at polls more seriously after the debates; if Romney is ahead at that point, he'll likely win. If President Obama is ahead, then it's four more years.

And that's when the wingnuts will lose it completely.

Apparently, Dark took exception with my prediction that President Obama is going to carve Mitt up like Jack the Ripper; taking what we know about Mitt, his everchanging positions, and his complete lack of humility, humbleness, and empathy, I'd put money on it.

Mitt is a lightweight and so is his running mate; no wailing, gnashing of teeth, or delusionary platitudes is likely to change that.

182 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:46:17pm

re: #94 Major Tom

Scribe Pee Ruin
Bicep Risen Rue

I don't have a pen on me, but there must be one of those Reince Priebus anagrams that featurs the word "Pus."

183 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:46:22pm

re: #173 iossarian

True enough, but with a Democratic-controlled Senate, it'd be little more than an exercise in red-meat tossing to the GOP loonies back home. They'll eat it up, but the concern is that their potential for obstructionism will increase exponentially.

184 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:46:45pm

re: #176 celticdragon

Collective starvation is all too easy to achieve. The Irish Potato Famine is another fairly obvious example.

185 Killgore Trout  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:47:23pm

re: #164 freetoken

This is one place where the UK style of Parliamentary debate serves them better than what we do here in the US - run very slick TV adverts.

I'm also fascinated by Uk's Parliament sessions. Those are a hoot. It's wild and raucous but it doesn't seem to have much anger or malice attached as it would here in the states. Although it's uglier on the surface I get the vibe that it's all done with a nod and a wink and most everybody understands that it's not intended to replace serious political thought. Here in the states we've lost that nod and wink and it's become our political culture.

186 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:47:42pm

Rachel Maddow is doing the same thing she's done before with Pat Buchanan, apparently some cretin produced a race baiting ad, and while she says she's appalled by the ad, the dude is a "good guy"

No. If you make your money off of hate, no way, no fucking how are you a good guy.

What's her fucking twitter handle?

188 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:48:08pm

re: #182 BongCrodny

I don't have a pen on me, but there must be one of those Reince Priebus anagrams that featurs the word "Pus."

Pus In Rice Beer

189 Jadewater  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:48:43pm

re: #184 iossarian

Collective starvation is all too easy to achieve. The Irish Potato Famine is another fairly obvious example.

Just watched a documentary about the famine which went into this in detail. Maddening. The only bright side I was left with is that I'm here because of it.

190 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:49:10pm

re: #184 iossarian

Collective starvation is all too easy to achieve. The Irish Potato Famine is another fairly obvious example.

Yep. Ireland was actually exporting food to England while tens of thousands of Irish Catholics starved to death.

Even worse (difficult to believe, I know) shit happened in Ireland during Cromwell's happy fun time.

191 Varek Raith  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:49:32pm

re: #187 Gus

Photos: Barack Obama Loves Kids, Chairs, Fedoras, Pirates, and Nancy Reagan

Pirate Appeaser.
Lol.

192 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:49:38pm

re: #181 Gert Fröbe

Apparently, Dark took exception with my prediction that President Obama is going to carve Mitt up like Jack the Ripper; taking what we know about Mitt, his everchanging positions, and his complete lack of humility, humbleness, and empathy, I'd put money on it.

Mitt is a lightweight and so is his running mate; no wailing, gnashing of teeth, or delusionary platitudes is likely to change that.

I say there's a very good chance that President Obama will indeed "carve up Mitt like Jack the Ripper".

Mitt is a lightweight, as is Ryan.

But I'd never underestimate the capacity of the GOP for delusionary platitudes; indeed, it's what's passes for intellectual discourse among conservatives these days.

193 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:49:54pm

re: #174 wrenchwench

Charlotte’s Most Central Chick-fil-A Hasn’t Been Open All Week

Chickens.

Wouldn't surprise me if either the franchisee decided to shutter the store on their own all week to squelch any protests or that CFA corporate "advised" them to.

Let's hope that the employees didn't get screwed out of a week's pay or was made to take vacation time (if they had it), just because the franchisee/CFA corporate was chickenshit...

194 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:50:16pm

re: #176 celticdragon

The technology used by the game-makers is never explored from an engineering standpoint (for that matter, nobody explains FTL drives in science fiction, but faster than light travel is a given). As far as the thousands of acres of forest etc, the movie takes place several hundred years in the future after the fall of modern society. Most of North America is in ruins and has been reclaimed by nature (like Germany during the Hundred Years War) and parts of it are under water after the ice caps melted. Starvation is a control (see Stalin's policy towards the Ukraine during collectivisation) and along with the Games, is used to keep the rebellious districts in line.

Fair enough, there is a back story. I'm sure most of the loose ends from the film are accounted for in the books. I suspected as much. I'm sure it makes perfect sense that children are used to kill each other tool... And you're right, for all their technology, in Star Trek TNG, they all wear onesies.

195 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:50:40pm

re: #185 Killgore Trout

I'm also fascinated by Uk's Parliament sessions. Those are a hoot. It's wild and raucous but it doesn't seem to have much anger or malice attached as it would here in the states. Although it's uglier on the surface I get the vibe that it's all done with a nod and a wink and most everybody understands that it's not intended to replace serious political thought. Here in the states we've lost that nod and wink and it's become our political culture.

I think it's more on the people than the politicians. I'm sure there are plenty of R's and D's who get on just fine in Washington when the cameras are turned off. The problem lies with the lunatics who think that anyone who isn't signed on to the church of Rand wants to DESTROY AMERICA!!!

196 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:52:02pm

re: #191 Varek Raith

Pirate Appeaser.
Lol.

Barack Obama: Foreign Born Pirate! - Family Photo Reveals

197 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:52:50pm

re: #190 celticdragon

Yep. Ireland was actually exporting food to England while tens of thousands of Irish Catholics starved to death.

Even worse (difficult to believe, I know) shit happened in Ireland during Cromwell's happy fun time.

I only found out about the details of the Corn Laws quite recently (due to my peripatetic childhood). A good reference for people who believe that the protection of private property and the ability to profit from the same can only benefit the population at large.

198 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:53:36pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

I think that's correct but there's also another dimension. There's always been the silly and simple angle to politics: dubious claims, factually challenged ads, silly conventions, gotcha sound bites etc. but there also used to be a more serious side to be found. I recently rewatched Buckley debating Chomsky (it's worth watching just a few minutes to remember what adult discussions used to look like). Although Hitchens was more bombastic he was also a holdover of the era of more serious adult debate which doesn't really exist anymore. Although the wingnuts have been more open in abandoning their intellectuals I think the problem is widespread in modern culture. There's not much open honest exchange of political ideas. It's been abandoned in favor of simplistic populism and showmanship.

Here's a recent, serious debate. It's an hour long during which Dan Savage completely destroys Brian Brown with facts while Brown casts the anti-gay movement as the real victims, but it's cordial and both sides get their say.

Youtube Video
199 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:54:58pm

re: #198 goddamnedfrank

Neither of which are running for a political office.

200 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:55:15pm

re: #194 Major Tom

Fair enough, there is a back story. I'm sure most of the loose ends from the film are accounted for in the books. I suspected as much. I'm sure it makes perfect sense that children are used to kill each other tool... And you're right, for all their technology, in Star Trek TNG, they all wear onesies.

[spoilers]

You really do run into exposition problems adapting a book that is experienced from a first person point of view and has extensive internal monologues that reveal a lot of the back story. Katnis is a remarkable and incredibly competent person, but she is also badly emotionally damaged (and becomes increasingly so as she experiences combat and becomes a squad leader in the civil war). I'm not sure how much of that you can bring to the screen. Thank God they found an actress with the kind of ability Jennifer Lawrence has.

201 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:56:20pm

re: #188 freetoken

Pus In Rice Beer

Not surprisingly, I wavered between typing "pus" and "beer."

Other potential Reince Priebus anagram words:

Prunes
Ruin
Burp
Rube
Bruise
Creep

202 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:56:52pm

re: #192 Dr Lizardo

I say there's a very good chance that President Obama will indeed "carve up Mitt like Jack the Ripper".

Mitt is a lightweight, as is Ryan.

But I'd never underestimate the capacity of the GOP for delusionary platitudes; indeed, it's what's passes for intellectual discourse among conservatives these days.

This is true.

203 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:56:59pm

Watching the DNC on CSPAN. Can't help but noticing, compared to the RNC, the delegates are happy, got better music, and actually seem to like each other and party together...the RNC...their only bond was hatred of Obama. That really must suck!

204 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:57:38pm

Gabby Giffords

205 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:57:50pm

Gabby!!!!

206 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:57:55pm

re: #201 BongCrodny

Not surprisingly, I wavered between typing "pus" and "beer."

Other potential Reince Priebus anagram words:

Prunes
Ruin
Burp
Rube
Bruise
Creep

This must go viral.

207 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:58:52pm
208 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:58:57pm

Uh oh. Time for the Kleenex.

209 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:59:00pm

WOW!!!! Awesome!!!

210 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:59:17pm

re: #208 Gus

Uh oh. Time for the Kleenex.

Beyond.

211 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:59:29pm

Night, Lizards. It's late here in Europa.

212 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:59:32pm

re: #204 Stanley Sea

Gabby Giffords

re: #205 diamonda2u

Gabby!!!!

How did she look and sound?

213 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 4:59:48pm

Had to step out for a few minutes -- now watching the Foos by rewinding EyeTV.

214 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:00:08pm

re: #199 freetoken

Neither of which are running for a political office.

Neither were Buckley and Chomsky.

215 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:00:16pm

re: #212 wrenchwench

Awesome! I hope they have the video soon

216 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:00:40pm

re: #201 BongCrodny

Not surprisingly, I wavered between typing "pus" and "beer."

Other potential Reince Priebus anagram words:

Prunes
Ruin
Burp
Rube
Bruise
Creep

Rice Penis Rube

217 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:00:50pm

guns in the hands of crazy nasty people ruin everything.

She is such a hero, just doing her job as a representative. For the 6 who didn't survive, I'm crying for you now too,

218 Redmalamute  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:01:02pm

If you take the vowels out of his name (Reince Priebus) it is RNC PR BS. So true! He definitely lives up to his name.

219 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:01:33pm

re: #212 wrenchwench

re: #205 diamonda2u

How did she look and sound?

Survived. She looks very beautiful, but she was really hurt. my op.

220 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:01:35pm

re: #218 Redmalamute

If you take the vowels out of his name (Reince Priebus) it is RNC PR BS. So true! He definitely lives up to his name.

You.Are.On.To.Something.

221 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:02:33pm

Glad she spoke. That lady is an inspiration.

222 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:03:17pm

Reince Priebus = Rub Nice Pee Sir

223 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:04:38pm

Caroline Kennedy. Good points, but blase voice. (add the accent)

224 Lidane  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:04:43pm

re: #140 celticdragon

Read the books. They are definitely aimed at our war-as-entertainment culture.

The third book, Mockingjay, should not even remotely be considered Young Adult Fiction. It is military science fiction, and the body count is horrific. Suzanne Collins is making a statement...and war is not pretty, the "good guys" are not always good and even the survivors may not come home intact.

Mockingjay was brutal. I was glad to see it, to be honest. After the drivel that is Twilight, it was nice to see a YA book series end on such a bloody, violent, utterly harsh note, with definite effects on the lead characters.

225 Blizard  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:04:51pm

"@ EricCantor : Gabby Giffords leading the Pledge of Allegiance is an inspiration to all Americans."

I wonder what Mitt will say. Oh that's right, he's not watching this.

226 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:05:42pm
227 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:06:57pm
228 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:07:06pm

Reince Priebus:

Scrub Eerie Nip

229 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:07:26pm

re: #197 iossarian

I only found out about the details of the Corn Laws quite recently (due to my peripatetic childhood). A good reference for people who believe that the protection of private property and the ability to profit from the same can only benefit the population at large.

The English really had some winners with respect to laws and Ireland. After the massive and genocidal clearances of Ireland (the population was cut by more than 50% in 10 years) in the 17th Century, many Irish woman and girls (including nuns seized from the convents) were sent as breeding stock to Barbados and the huge sugar plantations. The slave masters were already in the habit of raping African women, and the Irish women got the same treatment, although they were also deliberately and forcibly bred with African slaves because mixed race girls were in high demand in brothels. The English Parliament in 1681 passed a law...“forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” This was because the practice interferred with the profits of the slave traders.

Predictably, the race baitors have used this as an example of "ZOMG the Black peeples is raping teh white women".

Actually, violence and rape was fairly universal against both black and white women. In all cases here, it was white English landlords who had black and white women as young as 12 years old used as sexual slave chattels. Utterly, horrifically sickening.

230 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:08:13pm

Michelle, Elizabeth Warren, Tammy Duckworth and Gabby Giffords.

Let the Republicans have all the blow-dried, bleach blonde, bubbleheaded bimbos.

We got all the cool women.

231 freetoken  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:08:28pm

re: #214 goddamnedfrank

Neither were Buckley and Chomsky.

Correct.

My lament, though, is the lack of intelligent debate among those who participate in governance by election.

There are plenty of wonky discussions available today, but that is quite the niche market. One reason bloggingheads basically failed to grow is due in part because the market just isn't there. (Another part has to do with that sites originator's rather intransigent conservatism in dealing with wacky characters.)

232 BongCrodny  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:09:26pm

re: #218 Redmalamute

If you take the vowels out of his name (Reince Priebus) it is RNC PR BS. So true! He definitely lives up to his name.

So you're disemvoweling him, then?

233 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:09:37pm

re: #182 BongCrodny

I don't have a pen on me, but there must be one of those Reince Priebus anagrams that featurs the word "Pus."

Beer Irenic Pus
Brier Niece Pus
www.wordsmith.org/anagram

234 HappyWarrior  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:09:41pm

re: #230 BongCrodny

Michelle, Elizabeth Warren, Tammy Duckworth and Gabby Giffords.

Let the Republicans have all the blow-dried, bleach blonde, bubbleheaded bimbos.

We got all the cool women.

Kirsten Gillibrand and there are more too.

235 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:10:51pm

re: #224 Lidane

Mockingjay was brutal. I was glad to see it, to be honest. After the drivel that is Twilight, it was nice to see a YA book series end on such a bloody, violent, utterly harsh note, with definite effects on the lead characters.

Yes. Some fans were disappointed that there was no fairy tale happy ending. Collins would not have been true to her story if she tried to do that. War has consequences and she was, as you said, brutal in presenting those consequences. I knew she was onto something when I saw Iraq and Afghanistan veterans debating the end of Mockingjay.

236 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:11:02pm

If you believe in America, you invest in America..nice commercial

237 Lidane  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:11:20pm

re: #230 BongCrodny

Michelle, Elizabeth Warren, Tammy Duckworth and Gabby Giffords.

Let the Republicans have all the blow-dried, bleach blonde, bubbleheaded bimbos.

We got all the cool women.

Eva Longoria, Kerry Washington, and Scarlett Johansson too.

238 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:11:34pm

re: #229 celticdragon

The English really had some winners with respect to laws and Ireland. After the massive and genocidal clearances of Ireland (the population was cut by more than 50% in 10 years) in the 17th Century, many Irish woman and girls (including nuns seized from the convents) were sent as breeding stock to Barbados and the huge sugar plantations. The slave masters were already in the habit of raping African women, and the Irish women got the same treatment, although they were also deliberately and forcibly bred with African slaves because mixed race girls were in high demand in brothels. The English Parliament in 1681 passed a law...“forbidding the practice of mating Irish slave women to African slave men for the purpose of producing slaves for sale.” This was because the practice interferred with the profits of the slave traders.

Predictably, the race baitors have used this as an example of "ZOMG the Black peeples is raping teh white women".

Actually, violence and rape was fairly universal against both black and while women. In all cases here, it was white English landlords who had black and white women as young as 12 years old used as sexual slave chattels. Utterly, horrifically sickening.

Rape rape, or fake rape?//
re: #234 HappyWarrior

Kirsten Gillibrand and there are more too.

You should see Gillibrand on the Daily Show from yesterday. She has a very bright future above what she has already achieved

239 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:11:58pm

re: #229 celticdragon

I think the Irish case comes across as awful because the victims are, to put it crudely, indistinguishable from "average successful white people". In other words, it could happen to you (if you happen to be far enough away from the priorities of power brokers).

To be fair to the Brits at the time (including the politicians), I think there were quite a few people who wanted to help but genuinely didn't have the physical or intellectual capability to do so.

240 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:12:27pm

re: #237 Lidane

Eva Longoria, Kerry Washington, and Scarlett Johansson too.

All three should call me.

241 wrenchwench  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:12:46pm

re: #237 Lidane

Eva Longoria, Kerry Washington, and Scarlett Johansson too.

And Sheila E.

242 Blizard  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:12:55pm

re: #230 BongCrodny

Michelle, Elizabeth Warren, Tammy Duckworth and Gabby Giffords.

Let the Republicans have all the blow-dried, bleach blonde, bubbleheaded bimbos.

We got all the cool women.

Come on now. Keep it classy. No need to stoop.

243 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:13:20pm

lol... The trees arejust the right height.... She went there...

244 CuriousLurker  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:13:29pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

I think that's correct but there's also another dimension. There's always been the silly and simple angle to politics: dubious claims, factually challenged ads, silly conventions, gotcha sound bites etc. but there also used to be a more serious side to be found. I recently rewatched Buckley debating Chomsky (it's worth watching just a few minutes to remember what adult discussions used to look like). Although Hitchens was more bombastic he was also a holdover of the era of more serious adult debate which doesn't really exist anymore. Although the wingnuts have been more open in abandoning their intellectuals I think the problem is widespread in modern culture. There's not much open honest exchange of political ideas. It's been abandoned in favor of simplistic populism and showmanship.

And baiting & trolling in forums like this. It's impossible have an open honest exchange of ideas by oneself. Television is going to give us what we indicate we want, what we tune into. News is no longer news, it's for-profit entertainment and people tune in by the millions. If we want adult discussions, then we can start by refusing to participate in, or tune into, those which aren't. If someone can't or won't do that, then s/he is part of the problem.

245 Lidane  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:14:46pm
246 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:15:11pm

re: #240 goddamnedfrank

ROFL

247 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:15:23pm

re: #244 CuriousLurker

Truth.

248 sagehen  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:15:35pm

re: #77 CuriousLurker

Seriously? I don't remember anyone pricing Ann Romney's RNC dress...

yeah they did... it's $1900 at Nieman's. Mrs Ryan's dress was $120 at Talbot's.

249 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:15:49pm

Granholm 2016 ;)

250 Lidane  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:15:56pm

re: #240 goddamnedfrank

All three should call me.

What should they call you?

///

251 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:16:13pm

And if we do get a good jobs report, the Republicans will be apoplectic.

252 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:16:17pm

re: #249 Gus

Granholm 2016 ;)

Supreme Court all the way.

253 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:16:52pm

re: #243 Major Tom

lol... The trees arejust the right height.... She went there...

Can someone explain this one to me...I am behind here :-)

254 celticdragon  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:17:03pm

re: #243 Major Tom

lol... The trees are just the right height....

And Katnis climbed up into one of them to drop a nest of tracker jackers on Ryans pointy little head... ;)

255 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:17:12pm

re: #250 Lidane

What should they call you?

///

Daddy obv.

256 engineer cat  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:17:13pm

i have to say the showmanship at the DNC is so much better - it's made to look BIG

RNC looked like a particularly festive sales convention

257 Lidane  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:17:13pm
258 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:17:28pm

Wow, she is on a roll!!!! Go Jennifer..I like her!!!

259 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:17:31pm

"The cars get the elevator and the workers get the shaft." -- Jennifer Granholm

260 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:17:54pm

re: #253 diamonda2u

Can someone explain this one to me...I am behind here :-)

When Romney stopped in Michigan, he said it was good to be back, because the trees were the right height.

261 Lidane  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:17:55pm

re: #253 diamonda2u

Can someone explain this one to me...I am behind here :-)

I think Mitt Romney made some comment about the trees in Michigan being the right height. I don't remember.

262 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:18:16pm

re: #251 darthstar

[Embedded content]

And if we do get a good jobs report, the Republicans will be apoplectic.

THEY DIDN'T BUILD THAT

idiots, need an ad showing them wishing for economic failure.

263 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:18:21pm

re: #261 Lidane

I think Mitt Romney made some comment about the trees in Michigan being the right height. I don't remember.

Thanks!

264 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:18:27pm

Fireworks!

265 Charleston Chew  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:18:35pm

re: #261 Lidane

I think Mitt Romney made some comment about the trees in Michigan being the right height. I don't remember.

He said it was one of the things he liked about Michigan.

266 CuriousLurker  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:18:40pm

re: #248 sagehen

yeah they did... it's $1900 at Nieman's. Mrs Ryan's dress was $120 at Talbot's.

I wonder if the prices were also questioned. The whole thing is so stupid. How much did the men's suits cost? FFS.

267 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:18:51pm

Oh. She's Canadian. Bummer.

268 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:18:59pm

Stupid law.

269 Major Tom  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:19:00pm

She's gonna be horse tomorrow.

270 Targetpractice  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:19:01pm

re: #251 darthstar

[Embedded content]

And if we do get a good jobs report, the Republicans will be apoplectic.

If UE comes down tomorrow, expect to hear a lot of "context" and a lot of talk about how "it just means more people dropped out of looking for jobs."

271 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:19:24pm

Oh yeah...the two former governors from OH and MI may be two of the highlights of this convention for sure...she really got the crowd going!!!!

272 Lidane  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:19:41pm
273 darthstar  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:20:57pm
274 Lidane  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:21:57pm

re: #273 darthstar

Pics or it didn't happen. Also, if it DID happen, give her a damn medal.

Hehe.

275 sagehen  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:23:13pm

re: #137 goddamnedfrank

Good for them, but you'll notice that what Politifact doesn't do is go on to dissect the incredibly specious basis for Romney's claim. Only a complete asshole would rate the overall effectiveness of smaller class sizes by a single district's inability to completely prevent every last student from testing in the bottom 10%.

Is it possible that the district chose to put the lowest-testing kids in the smallest classes on purpose, so they'd get the most individualized attention and get up to grade level?

Just a thought.

276 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:24:01pm

re: #249 Gus

Granholm 2016 ;)

She's a Canadian.

277 Gus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:24:27pm

re: #276 Learned Mother of Zion

She's a Canadian.

Saw that. Bummer.

278 Archangelus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:26:40pm

Fine speech by Eva Longoria just now

279 diamonda2u  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:26:45pm

Something they never said about Obama. The RNC never said Obama was a good American and family man... did they???

280 iossarian  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:26:57pm

re: #277 Gus

Saw that. Bummer.

SCOTUS

Book it.

281 Archangelus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:31:01pm

Whoa, Schweitzer tearing mittens... "That dog won't hunt"

282 Archangelus  Thu, Sep 6, 2012 5:31:22pm

Etch A Sketch!


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