Wow: Becca Stevens & Jacob Collier Team Up for Stevie Wonder’s “As” With an Adorable Children’s Choir

Music • Views: 32,488

YouTube

“As” feat Jacob Collier can be found on Becca Stevens’ last record, “Regina”. “Regina” is available worldwide.

iTunes: radi.al
Physical: radi.al

:::MUSIC CREDITS:::

As

Music & lyrics by Stevie Wonder / Black Bull Music, Inc./Jobete Music Co., Inc. (ASCAP)

Arrangement by Becca Stevens
Performed by Becca Stevens & Jacob Collier
Produced by Troy Miller
Co-produced, engineered, & edited by Jacob Collier
Additional production by Becca Stevens, & Ted Tuthill
Additional engineering by Ted Tuthill, & Bill Stevens at Ovation Sound
Additional editing by Troy Miller, Ted Tuthill, & Becca Stevens

Recorded at Jacob’s Music Room, Figure 8 Recording, Atlantic Sound Studios, Spark Studios London, & Ovation Sound in W-S, NC.

Becca Stevens - Lead & Background Vocals, Charango

Jacob Collier - Featured & Background Vocals, Tenor Guitar

Children’s Choir - Aiden, Jaxon, Lydia, & Teyana Miller; Satie & Julianne Stevens, James & Allene Corman

:::VIDEO CREDITS:::

• Jacob & Becca filmed in Jacob’s Music Room by Jacob & Becca.
• Stevens & Corman kids filmed at Ovation Sound recording studio by Stella K .
• Aiden, Jaxon, Lydia, & Teyana filmed by Troy Miller at Spark Studios, London.
• Muna & Johna filmed by Rio Sakairi.
• Edited by Stella K

Jump to bottom

494 comments

1
makeitstop  Feb 14, 2018 • 9:53:04pm

Those two should get married. Imagine the prodigies they’d produce.

2
JordanRules  Feb 14, 2018 • 9:56:19pm

Oh that was so good!!

3
goddamnedfrank  Feb 14, 2018 • 9:58:45pm
4
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 14, 2018 • 9:58:50pm

re: #1 makeitstop

Those two should get married. Imagine the prodigies they’d produce.

I’m wondering if they might be a couple. Some pretty obvious “looks” going on in this video.

5
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:00:05pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

Perhaps he’s confusing “women” with “sheep?”

6
Kragar  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:02:13pm
7
goddamnedfrank  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:06:25pm

re: #4 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m wondering if they might be a couple. Some pretty obvious “looks” going on in this video.

Sorry shippers, Becca is married to someone else.

8
The Ghost of a Flea  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:06:28pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

VAGINAS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY

GOODNIGHT

9
ckkatz  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:07:03pm

re: #4 Eclectic Cyborg

Excellent piece! And, they certainly work together really well. But I guess I am reminded of “The Civil War” duo.

“[Becca] Stevens grew up in North Carolina. She attended the North Carolina School of the Arts and studied classical guitar, then went to The New School for Jazz and Contemporary Music in New York City, where she received a degree in vocal jazz and composition. She got married on September 2nd 2017 at Augsburg Lutheran Church, to Nathan Schram.”

en.wikipedia.org

Edit - Frank got there first.

10
goddamnedfrank  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:10:54pm

Becca married some other guy and Trump is President. We truly are living in the darkest timeline.

11
JordanRules  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:11:57pm

re: #7 goddamnedfrank

Damnet!!!!!!!!!

12
The Ghost of a Flea  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:12:02pm

When we’re all stuck in the post-apocalyptic hellscape, the life-or-death initiation test for entering my band of scavengers will involve explaining the function and appearance of a hymen.

I realize that sounds reductive, but I suspect it would sort out the fucking useless chuckleheads quick smart, and provide a ready source of fresh meat.

13
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:15:27pm

I’m beginning to think the only way to deal with the gun violence problem is take a page out of the forced birther playbook.

Protests outside congressional offices and such with bloody shooting scenes.

14
Targetpractice  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:16:53pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

“But does that also mean my husband must abstain from all sex and be a virgin when he marries me?”

“HAHAHAHAHAhahahaha…oh wait, you’re serious.”

15
The Ghost of a Flea  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:19:24pm

re: #12 The Ghost of a Flea

Added value: I suspect computer programmers are almost veal-tender, given their level of inactivity.

Though the terroir would be utterly shit.

16
ckkatz  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:20:40pm

re: #13 Anymouse 🌹

I’m beginning to think the only way to deal with the gun violence problem is take a page out of the forced birther playbook.

Protests outside congressional offices and such with bloody shooting scenes.

I think that there is currently a national discussion on ethics. And I suspect that gun regulation will be a part of it. Mass and continuous protests are an important part of it.

The current policy and culture lines were drawn by the gun-nuts. And I suspect that they may regret what they did. I am all out of sympathy for them.

17
makeitstop  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:20:59pm

re: #4 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m wondering if they might be a couple. Some pretty obvious “looks” going on in this video.

Yeah, and in the ‘Bathtub’ video, too.

18
makeitstop  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:23:58pm

re: #7 goddamnedfrank

Sorry shippers, Becca is married to someone else.

She should dump that zero and get with a hero.

j/k

19
Belafon  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:24:03pm
20
Targetpractice  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:27:56pm

When I hear a man argue that women should remain virgins until marriage, what I hear is a very insecure man. It may be about the size of his dick, it may be about how he thinks sex is simply about banging away until he gets off, it may be that he doesn’t want to have to compete with other men, it may be any of a number of personal flaws. But I don’t hear a man who cares for his wife, I hear a man who sees his wife as property and his insecurity will not allow him to enter into marriage without having some measure of control over his wife. That’s probably why Evangelicals have such a high divorce rate, the wives eventually get tired of that shit and want out.

21
Belafon  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:29:09pm

re: #20 Targetpractice

Also, when you see your wife as property, it’s a easy to decide that you can sell her off and get a new model.

22
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:35:15pm
23
danarchy  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:35:56pm

Anyone watched Blue Planet 2 yet? Just watched the first episode and it’s great. They didn’t change the narrator for the US release this time. Nothing against Pierce Brosnan, but why would you not want David Attenborough narrating?

24
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:37:48pm

re: #21 Belafon

Also, when you see your wife as property, it’s a easy to decide that you can sell her off and get a new model.

That used to be the way to get a divorce.

en.wikipedia.org

25
The Ghost of a Flea  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:38:39pm

re: #20 Targetpractice

Funny, if insane, personal story:

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

26
JordanRules  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:44:21pm
27
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:45:06pm

re: #25 The Ghost of a Flea

Funny, if insane, personal story:

[Embedded content]

25a3Fq/R/k0jLrF6JZnkMT9mymeJlbBbAuFdpAiRoixxim1c3z5I7qnTdvABQ/ZDm1AOjffcqMA3MD/+lMzWGJc/S49D74AB0U/aBjK6WfaG927WQNhUW3OCv1lvRlr9P1kiEVtpiTyXQ4WGH7N+XA==

28
JordanRules  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:45:59pm

re: #23 danarchy

Yes! It’s excellent!!

29
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:49:26pm
30
The Ghost of a Flea  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:49:37pm

re: #27 Anymouse 🌹

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

31
Targetpractice  Feb 14, 2018 • 10:55:53pm

re: #26 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

I still remember Obama’s speech after Sandy Hook, the pain and horror etched in his face, the tears that fell from his eyes. A leader of the nation rendered almost speechless by the senseless loss of life that day.

I cannot for a second imagine any of that coming from Trump. What I would expect is a dry, insincere speech written by Miller and droned out by a man who has absolutely no desire whatsoever to be giving such a speech. Followed shortly after by callous remarks that are meant to assure his brain-dead followers that he meant none of what he’d just said and he totally agrees with their arming themselves like a fucking zombie apocalypse is coming.

32
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:06:21pm

So Hannity had David Clarke, ex-sheriff, on to talk about the shooting in Florida.

Naturally he went with “now is not the time.”

33
Targetpractice  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:08:09pm

”We can’t allow emotions to drive public policy. Now that we’ve that out of the way, BE AFRAID OF ILLEGALS! BLM!! ANTIFA!!! TERRORISTS!!!! ONLY WE CAN SAVE YOU FROM THE THINGS YOU FEAR!!!!”

34
JordanRules  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:10:54pm
35
Amory Blaine  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:13:38pm

My brother is over for a late night drinking session.

36
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:13:39pm

re: #30 The Ghost of a Flea

[Embedded content]

4W9Y4S4YmcyGbWgYrXuLGzjSQYZLPyqL8N/HfFIBqDevIlVYhhRrPBcHCxzDSbAalj7maZg+TpDXtmUJ+jkWnwhC5Y9D2x66lpmwwd+5okpKTQ2707mpu+hU6YHjV8lrOEsBloYswfisjO7za3VitsuYRqYRSRQ48xDdOwUXqic=

37
JordanRules  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:14:32pm

re: #35 Amory Blaine

Nice! Cheers yall!

38
teleskiguy  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:19:57pm
39
JordanRules  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:22:11pm

Maze featuring Frankie Beverly playlist is so choice right now!

MAZE HAPPY FEELINGS

40
austin_blue  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:29:35pm

Night all., I am so pissed off I can’t even.

Dead children, semi-automatic weapons, and it’s all okay.

What the hell has happened to this country?

How can we take it back?

41
Targetpractice  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:36:32pm

re: #34 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

We can’t be sure that a massive fuck-off wall will stop all illegal immigration (in fact, we know it won’t), but we must build it anyway.

We can’t be sure that a ban on immigration/refugees from Muslim countries will bring a stop to terrorism (it won’t), but we must support it because it might stop one terrorist.

We can’t be sure that draconian “Voter ID” laws will stop voter fraud, but we must implement them because it might.

But because we can’t be sure that gun control laws would have stopped a single mass shooting, we can’t jump to conclusions.

Give me a fucking break.

42
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:36:46pm
43
JordanRules  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:43:20pm

re: #41 Targetpractice

Indeed, indeed.
And we gotta stay sane in the face of all this bullshit.

Re-up Skis gif at #38 over and over.

So much has been said and November is coming but so much is broken (including me). I broke down more today than I have in a while. GOTV has got to be my meditation.

44
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:53:00pm

re: #3 goddamnedfrank

LOL:

45
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:55:30pm
46
JordanRules  Feb 14, 2018 • 11:59:49pm

Beautiful.

47
Anymouse 🌹  Feb 15, 2018 • 12:06:42am

Well, I’m off to bed. G’night y’all.

48
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 12:12:22am

Oh and NYT, you apparently aren’t built for this any longer!

49
ckkatz  Feb 15, 2018 • 12:30:57am

re: #45 Anymouse 🌹

Heh, thanks for posting the Cox Farms article!

You remind me that I have been meaning to get out that way to support them.

They are located at the intersection of Braddock and Pleasant Valley roads. The area suburbanized now due to heavy building over the past 50 years.

But Braddock Road is named after the guy who had the road built, General Edward Braddock. Who started marching his Army from Alexandria, Virginia and built a fricking road across the Allegheny Mountains. (At the time they did not even know how wide the Allegheny Mountains were. Or even how far away Pittsburgh was.) It ended just short of Pittsburgh near where Kennywood is, when he was ambushed, fatally wounded and his Army destroyed at Turtle Creek on July 9, 1755. (And if you look at the map of that area, you will again see Braddock Avenue. Although it is on the historically wrong side of the river.)

And Pleasant Valley Road was used by Confederate General Stonewall Jackson in fall 1862 after the 2nd Battle of Bull Run to march his troops north to what is now US 50 and then, on US 50, east towards Washington DC. The fought a battle, basically at the Fair Oaks Mall and then marched to the next hilltop. His boss, Robert E Lee decided there were too many fortifications around Washington DC. And so Lee marched his Army north across the Potomac River to a small Maryland town called Sharpsburg, where they deployed along the banks of the Antietam Creek. The Union Army followed and attacked the Confederates. The battle was a draw. But resulted in the bloodiest day of warfare in US history. The Confederates eventually retreated back to Virginia.

50
ckkatz  Feb 15, 2018 • 12:32:34am

re: #48 JordanRules

I regret that I have only one upding to give!

51
ckkatz  Feb 15, 2018 • 12:33:44am

And time for me to also head to bed.

Good night lizards

52
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 12:59:32am
53
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 2:23:13am
54
wheat-dogg  Feb 15, 2018 • 2:48:39am

I did a CL at the end of the last thread.

Well, it seems there are about four degrees of separation between me and Meghan McArdle. Thus, on Facebook, I was privy to some backstory of McArdle. It seems she is a female version of the disaffected, awkward upper-middle-class youth represented by such luminaries as Rage Furby and Ben Shapiro. She was isolated and scorned in high school, as a former classmate/campmate tells it — awkward, overweight, and bullied “like Piggy in Lord of the Flies.”

Then she discovered her true calling, shilling for the Koch Brothers.

amp.pastemagazine.com

I’m not a psychologist or a sociologist, but there seems to be a strong correlation between having horrible peer relationships as a teenager and later growing up to be a conservatarian.

55
Amory Blaine  Feb 15, 2018 • 2:52:20am

re: #48 JordanRules

You have been on fire with your posts for a long time now. Well done.

56
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 3:50:04am

Morning all. Balmy 65 and breezy in CENTEX this morning.
Great thread:

57
Ace-o-aces  Feb 15, 2018 • 4:35:52am
58
Ace-o-aces  Feb 15, 2018 • 4:36:32am
59
Aussie Apocalypse  Feb 15, 2018 • 4:42:39am

re: #57 Ace-o-aces

Jack must be working out, ‘cause he moved that goal post with ease.

60
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:14:02am

re: #6 Kragar

RATIONAL RESPONSE: Make sure all ships have enough life boats to rescue every passenger.

IRRATIONAL RESPONSE: Give every passenger their own iceberg.

every nra/pro-gun ‘solution’ is for after the shooting starts

they suggest no preventative measures

61
Targetpractice  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:21:19am

re: #60 dangerman

every nra/pro-gun ‘solution’ is for after the shooting starts

they suggest no preventative measures

Sure they do: Buy a gun. Still don’t feel safe? Buy another gun. Buy guns until you feel safe. Buy ammo by the bucket full, because you never know when you’ll run out. Raid your kids’ college fund, put off paying down those credit cards, you can let your mortgage go a month, just buy more guns!

What’s that, guns don’t make you feel safer? What are you, some kinda commie?

62
jeffreyw  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:22:14am

Imgur


Good morning!

63
Jebediah, RBG  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:29:21am

re: #12 The Ghost of a Flea

When we’re all stuck in the post-apocalyptic hellscape, the life-or-death initiation test for entering my band of scavengers will involve explaining the function and appearance of a hymen.

I realize that sounds reductive, but I suspect it would sort out the fucking useless chuckleheads quick smart, and provide a ready source of fresh meat.

Can I sneak in if I can describe a Jeffrey Hyman?
(Tall, lanky, ripped jeans, leather jacket…)

64
Mike Lamb  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:29:57am

re: #46 JordanRules

Beautiful.

[Embedded content]

I was there over the summer. It is truly amazing.

65
Patricia Kayden  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:37:58am

re: #45 Anymouse 🌹

Need to look them up since I’m close to that area. They need to be supported for stating the obvious even if it’s not popular with certain elements.

66
Jebediah, RBG  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:38:07am

re: #18 makeitstop

She should dump that zero and get with a hero.

j/k

Well, let her know you’re available!

67
BadgerB  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:39:30am

re: #59 Aussie Apocalypse

Jack must be working out, ‘cause he moved that goal post with ease.

and for bonus points misidentifies the shoots, using Hoft’s incorrect spelling.

68
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:44:26am

AAAGH!!!! Stabby McStabby!!

Trey Blocker - Hogs

69
bill d. (b.d.)  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:48:37am

re: #68 Dave In Austin

AAAGH!!!! Stabby McStabby!!

[Embedded content]

Video

hahahahahahaha…brave man stabbing a dead pig…I shouldn’t laugh, the GOP down here love that stuff.

he should have worn cammo….

70
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:50:40am

re: #69 bill d. (b.d.)

He’s got the NRA hat. He wants Sid’s job.

71
Jebediah, RBG  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:52:24am

re: #25 The Ghost of a Flea

zy2SgQ+o476bPQM14xZbe7YaB3G+UvLdZd45qXOCB4Y3hp3+G1qSbg==

72
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:53:09am

re: #57 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Jack you’re an ass

All the ar15s already out there now didn’t stop this guy

73
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 5:54:13am

re: #43 JordanRules

Indeed, indeed.
And we gotta stay sane in the face of all this bullshit.

Re-up Skis gif at #38 over and over.

So much has been said and November is coming but so much is broken (including me). I broke down more today than I have in a while. GOTV has got to be my meditation.

Don’t mourn, organize.

(Somebody said that,)

74
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:02:47am

Thinking about it on the way to work, I think that videos from this shooting, plus the tweets of survivors of previous shootings talking them through the shooting, need to become the images we all use to change our gun culture. It’s said that the only reason civil rights laws were passed was because cameras finally put images of brutality in white people’s homes. It’s time we showed people what their kids are going to go through in a shooting, even if their kids aren’t the ones getting shot. Because active shooter drills are really just as useless as shelter drills for nuclear war.

Edited

75
bill d. (b.d.)  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:04:47am

re: #70 Dave In Austin

He’s got the NRA hat. He wants Sid’s job.

It’s really hard not to be better than Sid but…

76
William Lewis  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:06:32am

I’ve mentioned this before but I’d love to see the US enact gun regulation like that in the Czech Republic. They have a gun culture second to none that survived the Nazi’s and the Communists - and they’re still willing to keep freaks and nuts from getting hold of firearms.

en.wikipedia.org

But even that’s too much for too many of these assholes.

77
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:10:55am

$6500

78
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:16:26am

Morning…is it safe to come out yet???

79
lizardofid  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:18:05am

re: #77 Dave In Austin

$6500

[Embedded content]

If thoughts and prayers was Amazon shares, we’d all be retired by Christmas.

80
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:18:58am

President Petulant Fucking Baby has been talked into coming out of hiding and making a statement this morning.

I predict we’ll see one defensive son of a bitch, grudgingly offering up boilerplate about thoughts and prayers and calling Wayne LaPierre a great American or some shit.

Then he’ll knock off early and go to Florida to play fucking golf.

81
Unshaken Defiance  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:20:09am

re: #78 ObserverArt

Morning…is it safe to come out yet???

Hard to say yes, Trump is still POTUS, and the usual suspects are deflecting necessary lessons from yesterdays gun murders.

82
Unshaken Defiance  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:22:36am

I watch the local news in the mornings. Scientology is running very slick commercials for the “curious”. I wish those commercials had to have a subtitle that they are legally a cult is certain discerning nations.

83
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:24:32am
84
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:25:04am

re: #78 ObserverArt

Morning…is it safe to come out yet???

The only way it will get safer is if people stop hiding.

Edit: This is not directed at you, because I know you’re not actually hiding.

85
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:35:48am

re: #49 ckkatz

But Braddock Road is named after the guy who had the road built, General Edward Braddock. Who started marching his Army from Alexandria, Virginia and built a fricking road across the Allegheny Mountains. (At the time they did not even know how wide the Allegheny Mountains were. Or even how far away Pittsburgh was.) It ended just short of Pittsburgh near where Kennywood is, when he was ambushed, fatally wounded and his Army destroyed at Turtle Creek on July 9, 1755. (And if you look at the map of that area, you will again see Braddock Avenue. Although it is on the historically wrong side of the river.)

Some colonist named George Washington was tagging along with Braddock’s crew that day, and had already caused a great deal of mischief in that area in prior years.

86
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:36:25am
87
Unshaken Defiance  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:36:29am

I just got my first look at social media from the shooting. Words fail. Might that immediate visceral video build pressure for real changes in the law?

88
Skip Intro  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:38:51am

re: #29 Anymouse 🌹

Scott and Trump bribe recipient Pam Bondi have a plan. The state will pay for the funerals of the victims.

So there.

89
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:44:16am

re: #88 Skip Intro

Scott and Trump bribe recipient Pam Bondi have a plan. The state will pay for the funerals of the victims.

So there.

serious or snark?

90
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:46:13am

re: #89 dangerman

serious or snark?

From her own lips, last night. She’s also going to protect Floridians from funeral directors, using the practice she gained with the Pulse nightclub shooting. Fur reel.

91
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:55:06am

re: #90 Decatur Deb

From her own lips, last night. She’s also going to protect Floridians from funeral directors, using the practice she had with the Pulse nightclub shooting. Fur reel.

it’s effin loony

92
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:56:41am

re: #90 Decatur Deb

From her own lips, last night. She’s also going to protect Floridians from funeral directors, using the practice she had with the Pulse nightclub shooting. Fur reel.

Yep, all for the cameras.

93
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 6:57:45am

re: #92 Belafon

Yep, all for the cameras.

She’s lost that nice, new, AG smell.

94
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:04:20am

re: #68 Dave In Austin

AAAGH!!!! Stabby McStabby!!

[Embedded content]

Next up, Trey will show his solidarity with ICE by stabbing a dead Mexican.

95
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:06:59am

Another promise, broken. It’s what he does.

96
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:08:22am

I’m willing to bet that Trump won’t take questions at all today.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this ‘address’ is him and a camera in a room.

97
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:10:04am

re: #96 makeitstop

I’m willing to bet that Trump won’t take questions at all today.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this ‘address’ is him and a camera in a room.

He has all the biggest shootings. Huge.

98
lawhawk  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:15:13am

Greets and saluts from the resistance in the NYC metro area.

Trump’s busy blaming victims of the latest mass shooting for not reporting the shooter’s behaviors sooner. As though anyone could act on that? How is it that anyone in the nation can get their hands on a legal AR-15? Oh wait, GWB let the assault weapons ban expire, and the GOP/NRA have made it impossible to impose any new restrictions, let alone reasonable gun control/regulations that would make these mass shootings less likely to occur.

Oh, but Florida will pay for funeral expenses. Super.

Instead of banning the AR-15 and similar guns. Instead of banning bump stocks. Instead of banning high capacity magazines/clips.

They are going to pay funeral expenses.

Note too that these fuckers aren’t paying for the ongoing health care needs of these victims, including ongoing mental health care. Those folks may be dealing with PTSD and other mental ailments for the rest of their lives because of this, but the GOP simply doesn’t give a shit. That’s all on the victims to deal with.

And then we get fucknuts like Tomi Lehren or Geraldo who either want to see more guns as though that’ll make anyone safer, or teachers packing heat, or turning schools into airports with security theater, pat downs, and security screenings instead of doing the smart thing like banning AR-15s and making it harder for people to get the kinds of weapons that are involved in mass shootings.

99
bill d. (b.d.)  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:15:17am

re: #96 makeitstop

I’m willing to bet that Trump won’t take questions at all today.

I wouldn’t be surprised if this ‘address’ is him and a camera in a room.

[trump] IF THE FBI HAD FOCUSED ON STOPPING THIS YOUNG MAN RATHER THAN SPENDING ITS TIME INVESTIGATING ME THIS NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. [/trump]

100
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:16:12am

We’ve said that, if terrorists really wanted to frighten the country, they would go into the smaller cities and towns, not NYC or Washington, DC, and kill. Well, here we are.

101
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:20:16am

re: #98 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the resistance in the NYC metro area.

Trump’s busy blaming victims of the latest mass shooting for not reporting the shooter’s behaviors sooner. As though anyone could act on that? How is it that anyone in the nation can get their hands on a legal AR-15? Oh wait, GWB let the assault weapons ban expire, and the GOP/NRA have made it impossible to impose any new restrictions, let alone reasonable gun control/regulations that would make these mass shootings less likely to occur.

Oh, but Florida will pay for funeral expenses. Super.

[Embedded content]

Instead of banning the AR-15 and similar guns. Instead of banning bump stocks. Instead of banning high capacity magazines/clips.

They are going to pay funeral expenses.

Note too that these fuckers aren’t paying for the ongoing health care needs of these victims, including ongoing mental health care. Those folks may be dealing with PTSD and other mental ailments for the rest of their lives because of this, but the GOP simply doesn’t give a shit. That’s all on the victims to deal with.

And then we get fucknuts like Tomi Lehren or Geraldo who either want to see more guns as though that’ll make anyone safer, or teachers packing heat, or turning schools into airports with security theater, pat downs, and security screenings instead of doing the smart thing like banning AR-15s and making it harder for people to get the kinds of weapons that are involved in mass shootings.

Can you imagine any action that would take even fifty percent of the “installed base” of guns out of public hands? Because, if we actually did that, there would still be about 150,000,000 of them out there. That genie is not going back in the bottle in our lifetime.

102
plansbandc  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:21:45am

re: #45 Anymouse 🌹

“So black supremacy is okay then?” asked Lisa Lewis. “This is not a message of love, this is a message out to divide people even more. I would never ever visit your farm because you try to force your views on your customers. That is WRONG no matter what you say.”

This comment is so stupid my brain nearly short-circuited while reading it. Republican “logic” 101.

103
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:22:09am

re: #73 Decatur Deb

The GOTV part, ya know.

104
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:23:29am

Report: Florida Shooting Suspect Nikolas Cruz Passed Background Check for AR-15 (The Daily Beast)

RWNJs were claiming yesterday that he got the gun illegally, so new gun restrictions wouldn’t help and aren’t necessary.

105
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:23:55am

re: #103 JordanRules

The GOTV part, ya know.

Yeah, and that’s a two-edged sword. You want to watch whose vote you get out.

106
Eventual Carrion  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:25:27am

re: #102 plansbandc

“So black supremacy is okay then?” asked Lisa Lewis. “This is not a message of love, this is a message out to divide people even more. I would never ever visit your farm because you try to force your views on your customers. That is WRONG no matter what you say.”

This comment is so stupid my brain nearly short-circuited while reading it. Republican “logic” 101.

Like baking a cake for a gay couples wedding?

107
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:26:23am

re: #105 Decatur Deb

Every move feels edgy these days.

108
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:27:47am

This is kind of exciting. Jump in with both feets.

ToQWt6d/AJFGuED35qRQdvV6pR+BXY/W7OZQfG8A0Ehb4u+eWMrnwEG+AS98NPe0RLvXwGOtlKO1r7iRt46FZxzW8HXTWoF+VTtWR6optNbPt2Oo2ss+eERIlJya/Ao1ETbaEe2Th1qNPX5oG2EfsolbfClrP7Wm4djTn6KaLu2f0v3E1iSVB2Eq7JgURj10pp2qZVSLTfoRx+vUwBLFdWeEENcAwmNS4zvNCRC2epo=

109
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:28:32am

re: #107 JordanRules

Every move feels edgy these days.

It’s an environment in which winning by 3 million votes isn’t enough.

110
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:29:31am

re: #106 Eventual Carrion

Like baking a cake for a gay couples wedding?

That’s exactly what I said. Btw I got my pumpkins at Cox Farms many time as a kid. Happy to see they’re good people.

111
plansbandc  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:31:11am

re: #106 Eventual Carrion

See? I was so overcome with the black supremacy, I didn’t even pay attention to the part. Jesus H.

112
VegasGolfer  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:31:43am
113
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:32:06am

re: #61 Targetpractice

Sure they do: Buy a gun. Still don’t feel safe? Buy another gun. Buy guns until you feel safe. Buy ammo by the bucket full, because you never know when you’ll run out. Raid your kids’ college fund, put off paying down those credit cards, you can let your mortgage go a month, just buy more guns!

What’s that, guns don’t make you feel safer? What are you, some kinda commie?

i know we’re kidding around a bit.
even “buy a gun, buy ammo” is a post-shooting-starts solution.
having that arsenal wouldnt scare or “deter” any of these mass shooters from doing what they planned.
or virtually any one else who’s gonna take aim at “you” even with all those guns and ammo at your disposal

they are all “arm everybody so they can shoot back”
they have no “here’s how to keep the bullets from flying in the first place” answers

114
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:32:24am

re: #62 jeffreyw

[Embedded content]

Good morning!

we can all just get along

115
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:33:45am

re: #95 makeitstop

Another promise, broken. It’s what he does.

In his inaugural address, Trump declared, “This American carnage stops right here…I’ll be able to make sure that when you walk down the street in your inner city, or wherever you are, you’re not going to be shot. Your child isn’t going to be shot.”

“unless it’s on fifth avenue”
“by me”

116
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:33:56am
117
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:37:08am
118
Patricia Kayden  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:37:25am

re: #116 JordanRules

Nothing will change until politicians stop acting as if they’re in thrall to the NRA.

119
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:37:36am

re: #116 JordanRules

That was something I said last night to a guy on Twitter who tried to say that we’re unique, and solutions to other countries won’t work here.

120
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:37:42am

re: #106 Eventual Carrion

Like baking a cake for a gay couples wedding?

121
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:38:19am

re: #118 Patricia Kayden

Nothing will change until politicians stop acting as if they’re in thrall to the NRA.

And that won’t change as long as we keep electing the ones who are.

122
The Ghost of a Flea  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:39:16am

re: #111 plansbandc

I observed the other night that there exists “cluelessness” that involves treating ideas that are directly dangerous to others as just another option. And generally this is achieved by purging all context that doesn’t support everything being equal/ the idea that “both sides” must have created the problem.

The idea that there exists a “black supremacy” equivalent to white supremacy is another manifestation of this, and it’s been helped along by the say-nothing cover statement of “”colorblindness” that’s been sold instead of a meaningful dialogue about how race isn’t just an arbitrary separation of people, but an arbitrary separation of people always framed within a power dynamic. We shouldn’t be surprised there’s a new generation of white supremacists, and mealy-mouthed types that soft-peddle them…it’s built into the idea that race is about an “all-sides” problem, as opposed to the very concept of white being built and altered to fit the needs of the powerful.

123
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:41:10am

re: #119 Belafon

American exceptionalism bullshit.

124
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:41:51am

re: #116 JordanRules

Our current gun fetish festered precisely during the years of those notable progressive victories. It can be changed, but right now we are going in the other direction. First fix our national soul, then you can think about fixing the hardware.

125
Unshaken Defiance  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:43:46am

Asked of me on my subway commute this morning. Preface-“They are all the same blah blah” “What makes the Democratic party any better than the GOP?” Keeping the mindset of this woman in mind I answered that at a bare simple minimum the D’s keep the crazies to the fringe and have zero hep or support for far left violence. The republicans, well just observe.

126
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:47:15am

re: #125 Unshaken Defiance

Asked of me on my subway commute this morning. Preface-“They are all the same blah blah” “What makes the Democratic party any better than the GOP?” Keeping the mindset of this woman in mind I answered that at a bare simple minimum the D’s keep the crazies to the fringe and have zero hep or support for far left violence. The republicans, well just observe.

I would be curious as to how both parties are the same.

127
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:49:18am

re: #124 Decatur Deb

And because of them. Belafon hit that hammer nicely on the head yesterday.

128
Unshaken Defiance  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:49:21am

re: #98 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the resistance in the NYC metro area.

Trump’s busy blaming victims of the latest mass shooting for not reporting the shooter’s behaviors sooner. As though anyone could act on that? How is it that anyone in the nation can get their hands on a legal AR-15? Oh wait, GWB let the assault weapons ban expire, and the GOP/NRA have made it impossible to impose any new restrictions, let alone reasonable gun control/regulations that would make these mass shootings less likely to occur.

Oh, but Florida will pay for funeral expenses. Super.

[Embedded content]

Instead of banning the AR-15 and similar guns. Instead of banning bump stocks. Instead of banning high capacity magazines/clips.

They are going to pay funeral expenses.

Note too that these fuckers aren’t paying for the ongoing health care needs of these victims, including ongoing mental health care. Those folks may be dealing with PTSD and other mental ailments for the rest of their lives because of this, but the GOP simply doesn’t give a shit. That’s all on the victims to deal with.

And then we get fucknuts like Tomi Lehren or Geraldo who either want to see more guns as though that’ll make anyone safer, or teachers packing heat, or turning schools into airports with security theater, pat downs, and security screenings instead of doing the smart thing like banning AR-15s and making it harder for people to get the kinds of weapons that are involved in mass shootings.

Is there a German word for the hypocritical irony here? Florida just gave single payer medical coverage to murder victims and families. Let that sink in. NOW they see the necessity when things go horribly wrong, criminal or psychological.

But no move to restrict the guns (1) and (2) no state mental help for the guy apparently everyone saw as dangerous by way of his words and actions.

Horse, barn etc. If I shake my head any further I’m gonna get injured.

129
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:50:23am

re: #126 Belafon

I would be curious as to how both parties are the same.

There was a time, not long ago, when a Left Republican was left of a Right Democrat. The notion now is absurd.

130
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:50:56am
131
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:52:19am

re: #118 Patricia Kayden

Nothing will change until politicians stop acting as if they’re in thrall to the NRA.

Acting??? I think it is pretty clear they are not acting. Taking huge payments for your campaign is willful.

Saying “thoughts and prayers,” now that is acting. IMO.

132
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:53:39am

re: #127 JordanRules

And because of them. Belafon hit that hammer nicely on the head yesterday.

Much of it is in his race-based explanation. There’s a lot more—many elements working together and feeding back on each other.

133
Unshaken Defiance  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:54:04am

re: #126 Belafon

I would be curious as to how both parties are the same.

It was on the level of that deliberate ignorance that justifies not voting. “They all lie” They all steal, they all blah blah.

Well no they all don’t. Not unless a hungry desperate shoplifter (safety net advocacy) equates to a serial killer (NRA advocacy)
Please forgive a harsh turn of phrase for the good guys here. Sometimes a stark analogy works best.

134
Stanley Sea  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:56:39am

re: #80 makeitstop

President Petulant Fucking Baby has been talked into coming out of hiding and making a statement this morning.

[Embedded content]

I predict we’ll see one defensive son of a bitch, grudgingly offering up boilerplate about thoughts and prayers and calling Wayne LaPierre a great American or some shit.

Then he’ll knock off early and go to Florida to play fucking golf.

It absolutely is a quid pro quo for Golf.

135
Ace-o-aces  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:58:47am
136
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 7:58:59am
137
Ace-o-aces  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:00:58am
138
Unshaken Defiance  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:01:29am

re: #136 Backwoods_Sleuth

WTF is wrong with us? There is a population here of disturbed individuals at a rate seemingly far above the rest of the civilised world.

139
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:01:43am

I get so damned tired of going through this same cycle EVERY FUCKING TIME.

Nothing ever changes. EVER. How long will we allow this to continue? The rest of the world thinks we’ve gone mad and you know what? They’re probably fucking right.

What can we do about this if politicians refuse to act?

140
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:01:51am
141
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:02:43am

re: #136 Backwoods_Sleuth

I would like to know the origin of those calls. At this point in time, I don’t expect all of them to have come from inside the US.

142
Dr. Matt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:03:06am

Q1jhdXlJrCg1hXqsTuClES3eHDpa5vkPaPVDpj0fqCIcHAac/CElA60qkZUR73CvSIzjAuIb258TjbCZ0vDrjADdzd8a5ERnZSa6j65KnbtlDh5We/cwXaLm7e7/QQ3ceDRrTLPJAjKY7DLb+xncdftOHbYA/ryWPGsIQOgpEeMke7SaS9G5/c5PNjCy99zNWlIY5I9vY719Zru35Sj7+oQNGmux9UAbo8aYSPE1Fl+O5/aElM/AwG8eLhsCRWpk

143
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:03:17am
144
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:03:52am

re: #139 Eclectic Cyborg

I get so damned tired of going through this same cycle EVERY FUCKING TIME.

Nothing ever changes. EVER. How long will we allow this to continue? The rest of the world thinks we’ve gone mad and you know what? They’re probably fucking right.

What can we do about this if politicians refuse to act?

It wasn’t just that politicians refused to act. Voters didn’t force them to act. It’s time that changed.

145
Dr Lizardo  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:03:57am

re: #140 Backwoods_Sleuth

One of my students today asked me what were the odds of a copycat incident (or at least an attempted one) and I told her, “Unfortunately, pretty high - things like this bring the lunatics swarming out of the woodwork.”

146
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:04:25am

re: #143 Backwoods_Sleuth

He’s going to have marijuana users arrested.

147
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:04:44am

re: #137 Ace-o-aces

Shapiro: Why are all the peoples forcing me to talk about The Black Panther Movie all the time?! I’m being forced to watch The Black Panther Movie! Invite me to your college campus and I will say smart intellectual stuff like this to own the libs!

148
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:04:50am

re: #137 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

He really needs to smoke some pot. It might actually make him a less angry little man.

149
Dr. Matt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:05:45am

re: #143 Backwoods_Sleuth

More guns, armed teachers, armed janitors, armed lunch ladies, armed hallway monitors and safety patrol cross guards.

Face it, an armed society is a not a safe nor polite society. The US of A has proven this as fact.

150
Citizen K  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:06:00am

Guns are more “people” than people are. Especially the kind of ‘people’ (and I put that in quotes because it’s clear the GOP doesn’t see them as actually human) Republicans want to criminalize.

That’s all I have left.

151
Unshaken Defiance  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:07:04am

re: #143 Backwoods_Sleuth

152
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:08:33am

popcorn time:

153
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:09:11am

Preznit Baby is late for his own address.

It’s obvious that he cares very deeply about this and is taking it most seriously.

///////////////////////////////////////////////

154
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:09:39am

Sorry…… Again.

155
Interesting Times  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:09:57am

re: #123 JordanRules

American exceptionalism bullshit.

Indeed. I posted this article earlier in response to The Ghost of a Flea’s comments, but then I decided it’s as good a time as any to break my “no new LGF pages” streak:

Why We’re Underestimating American Collapse

A part I didn’t excerpt, because there was too much to choose from:

So my last pathology is a predatory society. A predatory society doesn’t just mean oligarchs ripping people off financially. In a truer way, it means people nodding and smiling and going about their everyday business as their neighbours, friends, and colleagues die early deaths in shallow graves. The predator in American society isn’t just its super-rich — but an invisible and insatiable force: the normalization of what in the rest of the world would be seen as shameful, historic, generational moral failures, if not crimes, becoming mere mundane everyday affairs not to be too worried by or troubled about.

156
Dr. Matt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:09:59am

If our country actually elected representatives by the truest sense of the word, rather than rich White entitled men, AR15s would be outright banned from civilians.

157
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:10:34am
158
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:11:24am

re: #153 makeitstop

Like he’d ever cut his “executive time” short!

159
Unshaken Defiance  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:11:40am

re: #155 Interesting Times

I read that, found it to be spot on. Terrifying when one thinks it through, proportionate to how young one is. Emigration is going to become a thing.

160
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:12:28am
161
Barefoot Grin  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:13:12am

re: #143 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Devil weed?

162
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:13:25am

WTF? For some reason, I’m blocked @Stonekettle. Don’t have a clue. I’ll see if I can raise him on FB.

163
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:13:30am

Like, we can’t even agree to mandate basic training and safety courses for gun owners.

If we can’t even manage to do something simple like that, how the fuck will we ever curtail shootings like this?

164
Jay C  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:13:48am
Trump:
So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

Is this the Moron-in-Chief’s only (recent) tweet about the Florida shootings? If so, I would say that “blaming the victim” just might, in this particular instance, be something of a mischaracterization?

That said, it’s kinda hard to figure out what Trump IS saying, because, as usual, it’s just more semi-coherent generalities. Though its inanity is proof that Donald DID tweet this one himself…..

165
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:14:30am
166
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:15:06am

Anyone else sick of hearing these police and other authorities giving thanks to other police, FBI, and especially Politicians for all their help AFTER THE FACT?

We have fast response. We got the injured to the hospital fast, we are paying for their funerals, we will help make sure the politicians put safety programs in place…la di dah.

How about they do something to stop the problems before another shooting.

167
Citizen K  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:15:06am
168
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:15:34am

I’m reading that Trump is going to sign a ‘Presidential Proclamation’ honoring the dead.

A fucking proclamation. A. Fucking. Proclamation.

I got nothin’

169
Renaissance_Man  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:15:46am

re: #164 Jay C

Is this the Moron-in-Chief’s only (recent) tweet about the Florida shootings? If so, I would say that “blaming the victim” just might, in this particular instance, be something of a mischaracterization?

That said, it’s kinda hard to figure out what Trump IS saying, because, as usual, it’s just more semi-coherent generalities. Though its inanity is proof that Donald DID tweet this one himself…..

It reads like blaming the victim to me. Furthermore, it is also obviously the take on FOX and Friends this morning, that there were so many signs, someone should have reported him, can’t be helped, etc.

170
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:16:14am

re: #157 Backwoods_Sleuth

Thoughts and prayers are what you offer when you aren’t going to do anything. If you’re in a position of power, this just proves you’re not Christian.

171
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:16:15am

re: #167 Citizen K

“More intense and better organized.”

And there’s our fucking problem right there.

172
Unshaken Defiance  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:16:24am
173
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:16:30am

re: #155 Interesting Times

Very good read.

Page virgin no longer!

174
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:16:53am

re: #168 makeitstop

It’s simple. Trump aims to make EVERYTHING be about him.

175
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:17:20am

re: #167 Citizen K

To state the obvious, saying “don’t politicize tragedy” is usually a political tactic. Especially on guns, where the majority of Americans are for more gun control but the minority is more intense and better-organized.

FTFY, Nate. But, he has a point. It’s time we got organized.

176
Stanley Sea  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:18:44am
177
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:18:54am
178
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:19:27am
179
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:19:35am

re: #170 Belafon

Thoughts and prayers are what you offer when you aren’t going to do anything. If you’re in a position of power, this just proves you’re not Christian.

It’s like that joke about the guy stuck on the roof after a hurricane who refuses assistance from a helicopter, a boat and a neighbor because he expects God to help him. God of course replies with: “I sent you a boat and a helicopter and a neighbor, what more do you want??”

180
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:20:15am
181
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:21:23am

re: #137 Ace-o-aces

Also Ben Shapiro: The Civil War was not about Slavery!

182
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:21:25am

re: #176 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

183
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:21:26am
184
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:23:19am

I’ve got the NBC stream open on the other laptop, still no Preznit Baby.

Is my stream broken, or is this guy being a total douche again?

185
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:23:51am

re: #180 JordanRules

Hey Wisconsin #Resistance:

The NRA wants Screnock to win next week. Be sure you vote against him on February 20th.

— Nick Knudsen 🇺🇸

Careful, Dana Mah Gunz or Crazy Dan Bongino might release another frothing video where they smash things or burn the NYT.

186
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:24:27am

re: #178 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

I just heard this sheriff say something about they couldn’t have stopped him from having a legal gun.

Hint for you sheriff…maybe some of these guns no longer need to be classified as legal.

Fucking moron. The problem is right there in front of you.

Oh, and Rick Scott said this was different from the Pulse nightclub because that was terrorism. Whut???

This is why I asked earlier if it is safe to come out yet. I can’t take all of the comments in these cases because so much just rings so hollow.

187
Bubblehead II  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:24:41am

IT is now speaking

188
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:25:13am
189
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:25:35am

re: #187 Bubblehead II

IT is now speaking

190
451_Montag  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:26:07am

Jeez, Trump can barelyy read. Honestly, he is fucking embarrassing

191
Interesting Times  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:26:10am

re: #173 JordanRules

Very good read.

Page virgin no longer!

Heh, I wasn’t clear - I’ve posted pages before, but the last one was back in 2016. So more like a Page dry spell.

192
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:26:13am

sigh…

193
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:26:37am
194
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:26:58am

re: #184 makeitstop

I’ve got the NBC stream open on the other laptop, still no Preznit Baby.

Is my stream broken, or is this guy being a total douche again?

He’s on reading off the teleprompter three words into his address.

Dude, you are fucking on TV…no one else in the damn room…put the words in front of you like a news reader.

Oh wait, you might need to wear glasses…

195
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:27:38am

re: #117 JordanRules

As Trump tweets blame the victims for not reporting the shooter, Buzzfeed reports that the shooter actually was reported—directly to Trump’s own FBI—months ago. It did nothing to prevent the shooting. buzzfeed.com

— Matt McDermott

Next Grassley-Graham “letter”: Did the Deep State FBI purposely let FL high school killer have gun to embarrass Trump and enable ban on all guns everywhere for everybody?

196
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:27:40am
197
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:27:43am

re: #193 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Bigoted hobos get privilege now?

Blight Privilege.

198
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:28:33am

re: #192 Backwoods_Sleuth

sigh…

[Embedded content]

I play violent VR games, which are much more immersive than video games, and feel like real experiences. I’ve felt no urges to shoot anyone IRL.

199
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:28:40am

JFC

200
Citizen K  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:29:10am

re: #171 Eclectic Cyborg

“More intense and better organized.”

And there’s our fucking problem right there.

re: #175 Belafon

FTFY, Nate. But, he has a point. It’s time we got organized.

The problem here is chicken & egg at this point: are they essentially in charge because they’re better organized and relentless, or are they better organized and relentless because they’re already essentially in charge?

The NRA et. al. seems to be able to do this kind of shit precisely because they already have their fingers everywhere and can ensure they’re the only ones that get listened to. I’m not sure how much simply getting ‘better organized’ will overcome the infinitely deep pockets and eternal ownership that the NRA seems to control.

201
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:29:13am

re: #195 Sir John Barron

Oh John, you know they are on it. Dumbo Jr retweeted someone who said the FBI was too busy going after his father to stop this kid.

202
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:29:30am

Blatantly ripped from an FB post but it fucking nails it:

203
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:30:15am

re: #199 Backwoods_Sleuth

JFC

#POTUS to children: “I want you to know that you are never alone and you never will be. You have people who care about you, who love you and who will do anything at all to protect you. If you need help, turn to a teacher, a family member, a local police officer.”

Awaiting response by Tamir Rice.

204
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:31:18am

re: #200 Citizen K

The problem here is chicken & egg at this point: are they essentially in charge because they’re better organized and relentless, or are they better organized and relentless because they’re already essentially in charge?

The NRA et. al. seems to be able to do this kind of shit precisely because they already have their fingers everywhere and can ensure they’re the only ones that get listened to. I’m not sure how much simply getting ‘better organized’ will overcome the infinitely deep pockets and eternal ownership that the NRA seems to control.

Couldn’t hoit.

205
Citizen K  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:31:22am

re: #199 Backwoods_Sleuth

JFC

[Embedded content]

Excuse me for saying it…but this is possibly the whitest thing he’s ever said.

206
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:31:42am

Our president is a national world embarrassment.

And our country is responsible.

207
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:32:28am
208
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:33:18am

re: #202 Eclectic Cyborg

Blatantly ripped from an FB post but it fucking nails it:

[Embedded content]

Blatantly ripped from your comment.

209
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:33:55am

re: #200 Citizen K

The problem here is chicken & egg at this point: are they essentially in charge because they’re better organized and relentless, or are they better organized and relentless because they’re already essentially in charge?

The NRA et. al. seems to be able to do this kind of shit precisely because they already have their fingers everywhere and can ensure they’re the only ones that get listened to. I’m not sure how much simply getting ‘better organized’ will overcome the infinitely deep pockets and eternal ownership that the NRA seems to control.

To use a war analogy, because I consider this a war, the Germans were better organized at the start of both wars, the South was better organized at the start of the Civil War, and whites were much better organized when MLK Jr. and Co. began organizing.

210
Weaselone  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:34:29am

re: #208 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Blatantly ripped from your comment.

[Embedded content]

Needs to note that this cycle repeats every 2 days.

211
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:35:32am

They only succeed when good people do nothing. And part of the “thoughts and prayers” charade is to stop good people.

212
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:35:59am

*spit*

213
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:36:20am

re: #192 Backwoods_Sleuth

sigh…

Also, prayer and God banned from school, etc.
/

214
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:37:03am

re: #212 Backwoods_Sleuth

President Trump: “Answer hate with love, answer cruelty with kindness.”

Answer high school massacres with fucking gun control.

215
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:37:06am
216
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:38:08am

re: #212 Backwoods_Sleuth

President Trump: “Answer hate with love, answer cruelty with kindness.” pic.twitter.com

— NBC News (@NBCNews) February 15, 2018

Who dis?

217
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:38:17am

Mark Ruffalo just retweeted this:

218
Skip Intro  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:38:33am

re: #89 dangerman

serious or snark?

Dead serious. However those with medical bills from the shooting can just go fuck themselves.

219
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:38:42am

re: #212 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

*spit*

I hope no one actually thought he would say anything about guns. There was 0% chance of that. He’s probably getting a nice check from the NRA for his “campaign” for not mentioning guns.

220
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:39:23am
221
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:39:49am

re: #213 Sir John Barron

Also, prayer and God banned from school, etc.
/

Back when God was supposedly in school, He didn’t put up some barrier that deflected bullets. People just didn’t walk into a school and start shooting. People didn’t own semi-automatic weapons to walk into school with.

222
electrotek  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:41:46am

re: #221 Belafon

Back when God was supposedly in school, He didn’t put up some barrier that deflected bullets. People just didn’t walk into a school and start shooting. People didn’t own semi-automatic weapons to walk into school with.

Seriously, I’m so sick of this crap.

You don’t have to be an atheist to realize that “thoughts and prayers” is utter horseshit.

223
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:42:13am

re: #192 Backwoods_Sleuth

After another school shooting, Bevin again blames culture, violent video games kentucky.com pic.twitter.com

— Bluegrass Politics

Person: So, we should ban violent video games?

RWNJ: Uh, well, uh….No, I mean, maybe some violent video games!

Person: Which ones?

RWNJ: Uh, how about that car assassins video game? I don’t know what the kids are into these days

224
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:42:16am

re: #181 Sir John Barron

Also Ben Shapiro: The Civil War was not about Slavery!

It was about black supremacy?

225
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:43:34am

re: #220 Backwoods_Sleuth

The rest of today: DJT retweets all the tweets telling him how MAGA his great speech was, the best speech of any president ever.

226
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:44:14am

re: #221 Belafon

Back when God was “in school” the NRA hadn’t gone bugfuck insane yet.

227
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:44:29am

re: #225 Sir John Barron

The rest of today: DJT retweets all the tweets telling him how MAGA his great speech was, the best speech of any president ever.

“He promised that our school children would be safe and now they are - more than ever!”

228
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:47:12am

re: #221 Belafon

.. People just didn’t walk into a school and start shooting. …

Don’t allow that framing. The worst school massacre was in 1927. He used explosives.

en.wikipedia.org

229
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:47:14am
230
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:47:33am

re: #226 Eclectic Cyborg

Back when God was “in school” the NRA hadn’t gone bugfuck insane yet.

It is obvious the product the NRA pushes is the new “god” in the schools.

All bow down and pray to the gun. The gun is what we believe in.

231
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:47:47am

Lolwut

232
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:48:01am

re: #229 Backwoods_Sleuth

BREAKING: 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals declares Trump travel ban unconstitutional.

This means more Muslim mass school shootings!!!

/

233
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:48:11am

this will probably not turn out the way he expects:

234
bill d. (b.d.)  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:48:36am

re: #183 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

who is that dude?

235
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:49:16am

re: #228 Decatur Deb

Don’t allow that framing. The worst school massacre was in 1927. He used explosives.

en.wikipedia.org

The doors on every classroom in my elementary school in the 1970s opened to the outside.

Also, note how much harder it is to get explosives.

236
Decatur Deb  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:50:15am

re: #233 Backwoods_Sleuth

this will probably not turn out the way he expects:

The Latest: President Trump says he’ll visit Parkland, Florida, the site of Wednesday’s shooting that killed 17 people.

It’s not that far geographically or sociologically from Mar-a-Lago,

237
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:50:33am
238
Interesting Times  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:51:17am

In which the author of the most evergreen headline in history reveals his identity :/

239
Dr. Matt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:52:12am

re: #233 Backwoods_Sleuth

The Latest: President Trump says he’ll visit Parkland, Florida, the site of Wednesday’s shooting that killed 17 people. apnews.com

— The Associated Press (@AP) February 15, 2018

Where he’ll throw boxes of Kleenex at the grieving families.

240
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:53:07am

re: #239 Dr. Matt

Where he’ll throw boxes of Kleenex at the grieving families.

Or, even worse: He’ll promise to pay for their medical expenses.

241
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:54:08am

re: #237 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Yet you’re fine with your religious right pals blaming secularism but nope we can’t talk about easy access to guns because that may make the organizations that own your sorry excuse for a leader upset and upset LaPierre is worse than dead kids.

242
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:54:20am
243
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:54:22am

re: #228 Decatur Deb

Don’t allow that framing. The worst school massacre was in 1927. He used explosives.

en.wikipedia.org

I remember reading about that bombing but I forgot the name Andrew Kehoe.

And that made me remember the infamous Kehoe brothers Chevie and Cheyne and their shootout with an Ohio Highway Patrolman in Wilmington back in 1997.

All in a name. I wonder if there is any family relations.

244
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:55:31am

re: #238 Interesting Times

In which the author of the most evergreen headline in history reveals his identity :/

[Embedded content]

It just hits close to home. For me, that was Virginia Tech as I was a college student in Virginia at the time with many Hokie friends and family.

245
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:55:58am

re: #231 JordanRules

Lolwut

[Embedded content]

Peter Thiel is a very strange dude. And no amount of money can change that. It might make him worse.

246
Jay C  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:55:58am

re: #233 Backwoods_Sleuth

The Latest: President Trump says he’ll visit Parkland, Florida, the site of Wednesday’s shooting that killed 17 people. apne.ws

That’s nice - will he will able to squeeze the school visit in between rounds of golf?

247
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:56:11am

re: #242 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

FFS she’s a fashion blogger. Sigh.

248
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:57:47am

re: #233 Backwoods_Sleuth

this will probably not turn out the way he expects:

[Embedded content]

I hope a million people show up and boo him off his tiny feet. Shout him down, let him know how much he is reviled.

249
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:57:59am

re: #237 Backwoods_Sleuth

“People don’t know how this happened: who this person is, what motivated them..

all those social media postings of him brandishing weapons did not give us a clue, did they?

250
Eclectic Cyborg  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:58:02am

re: #242 JordanRules

JFC. This country is going off the rails.

251
plansbandc  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:58:11am

I tweeted this:

Trumpland will never do anything about guns. The United States might, if we have enough people elected to actually care about changing stuff. And sadly, that is certainly not all Democrats. Many Dems don’t give a fuck about changing gun laws either.

And my Republican friend (one of the last ones I follow on twitter, who is now muted because I have hit my limit of patience) tweeted this in response:

I got news for you Peg. School shootings didn’t start with Donald Trump.

Can someone who speaks Republican explain to me where I said that in my tweet? Thanks.

252
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 8:59:49am

re: #251 plansbandc

You said “Trumpland.” You gave him an out.

253
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:00:17am
254
Citizen K  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:00:38am

The picture in the second tweet broke me. I just…

255
plansbandc  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:00:54am

re: #252 Belafon

But how does that mean there was never a school shooting before Trump?

256
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:00:56am

re: #253 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Yep.

257
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:01:54am

re: #254 Citizen K

[Embedded content]

The picture in the second tweet broke me. I just…

The kids are all right. The politicians who suck the NRA’s tit otoh.

258
FormerDirtDart  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:03:21am

Deep State

259
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:03:44am

re: #255 plansbandc

But how does that mean there was never a school shooting before Trump?

That’s not what he said. He said that shootings didn’t start when Trump took office. By saying Trumpland, you gave him the ability to frame the argument as whether or not Trump caused them.

260
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:03:59am

re: #242 JordanRules

261
plansbandc  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:05:30am

re: #259 Belafon

OIC! Nice framing. And very Republican indeed. Thank you.

262
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:06:20am

Damnet.

263
DodgerFan1988  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:07:09am
264
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:08:00am

re: #262 JordanRules

Damnet.

[Embedded content]

Fuck.

265
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:09:13am

re: #263 DodgerFan1988

[Embedded content]

Or even by legal immigrants.

266
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:10:38am

re: #265 HappyWarrior

Or even by legal immigrants.

or anyone who is not white

267
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:11:48am

Actually, keep tweeting you dumb fuck.

268
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:11:55am

re: #266 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

or anyone who is not white

Yep.

269
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:12:44am

re: #267 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Actually, keep tweeting you dumb fuck.

They should use his public comments. They are relevant.

270
KGxvi  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:13:44am

re: #263 DodgerFan1988

The shooter in Florida was a law abiding citizen until he stepped on the campus

271
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:14:01am

This has been discussed before here at LGF but it needs to be kept in the public eye until this insane legislation is repealed.THE GOVERNMENT WON’T FUND RESEARCH ON GUN VIOLENCE BECAUSE OF NRA LOBBYING

A 22-year-old rule is still stimying government funding for research on gun violence. As mass shootings, like the one that took place Sunday in Las Vegas, continue to kill and injure, article after article cites a gap in gun violence research as a roadblock to any progress on gun policy. This gap dates back to a 1996 appropriations bill, known as the Dickey Amendment. The amendment declared that “none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”

272
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:14:32am
273
Renaissance_Man  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:14:37am

re: #209 Belafon

To use a war analogy, because I consider this a war, the Germans were better organized at the start of both wars, the South was better organized at the start of the Civil War, and whites were much better organized when MLK Jr. and Co. began organizing.

We get angry that the NRA spends so much money and has so much influence, and rightly so. We despair of their organisation and their entrenched support. I’m not so sure that’s the real problem, and Nate Silver’s take is a glib oversimplification.

The actual amount of money the NRA gives to politicians is comparatively small. Given the cost of a political campaign today, that amount of money is not that much. It’s true that a House race works with a much smaller budget, and buying a Rep is comparatively cheap, but it’s not that cheap, and I’m quite sure that in raw dollar amounts, loss of NRA support wouldn’t mean that much to most of Congress.

So what is it then? Is it their grassroots support, where opposition to the NRA means political death for a candidate? I think that’s probably true at the smallest levels of Republican primaries, where the NRA can mobilise a few extra votes against someone and those few votes make a difference. But overall? I don’t think NRA support or money makes that much difference, and I’m not the only one.

Yet, as has been pointed out many times, when Democrats attempt gun control, they lose. When Republicans oppose gun control with flagrant disregard for human life, they win. How can that be, if 90% of Americans support background checks and more gun regulation? How can it be that if only 10% of people don’t support some gun legislation, that a candidate who does what 90% of the people want loses? Even Trump doesn’t have those poll numbers.

The answer, as I see it, is that most of those 90% of people are lying. Or more accurately, when asked, they support the idea of something like a gun law in the abstract, but when the reality starts coming out, and the abstract idea is replaced with some details, their support evaporates. Or, if they don’t actively oppose the idea of a new law (we should enforce the laws on the books, we already have too much regulation, etc.), the possibility of legislative change that will reduce the number of gun deaths isn’t enough to actually get them to vote. And I think that’s really it. When it comes down to it, Americans might say they hate gun massacres and innumerable shootings every day, but they don’t really. They don’t hate them enough to support anyone or anything who might change that. They don’t hate them enough to be willing to accept a cultural change, because reducing gun deaths will require a cultural change, where white men with guns aren’t heroes, and shooting people doesn’t solve problems. They don’t hate them enough to accept the idea of guns not being part of America’s soul. And they especially don’t hate them enough for anyone to give up a precious, precious gun.

I blame the US media for many things, but it’s not just that. The US media creates and safeguards American culture. Americans as a whole have accepted that people shooting each other is a normal thing, and daily human sacrifice is just part of living in this society. It’s not the NRA. It’s the culture, just like human sacrifice has been part of many cultures throughout history.

274
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:15:19am

re: #271 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

This has been discussed before here at LGF but it needs to be kept in the public eye until this insane legislation is repealed.THE GOVERNMENT WON’T FUND RESEARCH ON GUN VIOLENCE BECAUSE OF NRA LOBBYING

I really want to see the NRA exposed as the Putin stooges they are and ruined. I want to see LaPierre forced to sell his beloved guns to pay for court fees.

275
KGxvi  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:16:23am

re: #274 HappyWarrior

I really want to see the NRA exposed as the Putin stooges they are and ruined. I want to see LaPierre forced to sell his beloved guns to pay for court fees.

LaPierre seems more like the type that would follow the warden from Shawshank on the way out

276
FormerDirtDart  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:17:52am
277
Jay C  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:17:59am

re: #251 plansbandc

I tweeted this:

Trumpland will never do anything about guns. The United States might, if we have enough people elected to actually care about changing stuff. And sadly, that is certainly not all Democrats. Many Dems don’t give a fuck about changing gun laws either.

And my Republican friend (one of the last ones I follow on twitter, who is now muted because I have hit my limit of patience) tweeted this in response:

I got news for you Peg. School shootings didn’t start with Donald Trump.

Can someone who speaks Republican explain to me where I said that in my tweet? Thanks.

You didn’t have to say anything: sadly, like with most Republicans, “discussions” about gun violence rareky if ever have an “other side”, but are merely opportunities to shut down the dialogue with (perceived) end-of-discussion imperatives.
Someone here yesterday re-posted a (only partly-joking) pic of a “gun violence discussion board” - a grid with its boxes filled in with stock cliches and canards (“can’t regulate mental illness”, “don’t politicize a tragedy”, etc., and of course “Second Amendment” as the “free” space in the middle) - none of which are meant to have any real rejoinder, but simply shut the discussion TFU .

278
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:18:58am

re: #273 Renaissance_Man

I agree. But, to continue with my being an optimist and to parallel with MLK, prior to the 60s many Americans agreed that blacks were second class citizens, and many of those whites who didn’t only disagreed in the abstract, and were never going to act on those “feelings” until it was brought into their homes on TV. We can change.

279
CongoJack  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:19:14am

re: #272 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

My dog;
I almost forgot what it was like to have a President who could write in complete sentences and get their point across with out pounding the shift/caps lock button repeatedly.

280
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:21:07am

re: #261 plansbandc

I get those same crap responses about it preceding 45 without ever mentioning anything of the sort.

Like we weren’t trying to stop it then too. It’s ridiculous.

281
Citizen K  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:23:25am

re: #278 Belafon

I agree. But, to continue with my being an optimist and to parallel with MLK, prior to the 60s many Americans agreed that blacks were second class citizens, and many of those whites who didn’t only disagreed in the abstract, and were never going to act on those “feelings” until it was brought into their homes on TV. We can change.

I wish I could agree but we seem to be on a perfect backslide on even that measure too.

282
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:23:25am

re: #278 Belafon

I look forward to candidates touting their F ratings from the NRA.

Some of them just won in VA and people voted for them with guns being a priority in their decision.

283
Skip Intro  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:27:12am

re: #270 KGxvi

The shooter in Florida was a law abiding citizen until he stepped on the campus

So was the guy in Las Vegas until he started killing people. So are most people who use guns to kill people. Law abiding gun owners until they aren’t.

284
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:27:54am

re: #281 Citizen K

I wish I could agree but we seem to be on a perfect backslide on even that measure too.

In a different time, I would hate to share a video from a shooting, but I think the recording from the shooting has to be one of many tools we use to go after both the NRA and people who offer “thoughts and prayers.”

285
plansbandc  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:28:48am

He says by saying Trumpland I implied that school shootings never happened before Trump. Also, he is offended that I call America Trumpland. Good. It is offensive.

I don’t consider them the same thing anymore.

286
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:29:18am

re: #283 Skip Intro

So was the guy in Las Vegas until he started killing people. So are most people who use guns to kill people. Law abiding gun owners until they aren’t.

The one crucial difference between the shooter yesterday and the average law abiding citizen is that he had been reported as being dangerous.

287
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:31:24am

re: #285 plansbandc

He says by saying Trumpland I implied that school shootings never happened before Trump. Also, he is offended that I call America Trumpland. Good. It is offensive.

I don’t consider them the same thing anymore.

Calling what we are now Trumpland is like coming up with the title of the book after it’s been written. Trump is the logical conclusion of every GOP policy of the last 50 years.

288
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:31:48am

re: #285 plansbandc

He says by saying Trumpland I implied that school shootings never happened before Trump. Also, he is offended that I call America Trumpland. Good. It is offensive.

I don’t consider them the same thing anymore.

It’s not only offensive, it creates confusion when people start making up their own words.

289
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:32:02am

re: #160 Backwoods_Sleuth

Ryan: Florida school shooting shouldn’t result in taking away gun rights

it is now axiomatic that the 2A is not absolute
and
some people can have their 2A rights/privileges taken away

NO ONE, really wants to take away your gun rights, really

its the rights, and guns, of the reckless, irresponsible, threatening and dangerous we are most concerned with

and it’s holding the “semi-responsible” people to task when they do bad things like not store securely, or sell/transfer without checking whether the buyer has lost his 2A rights, or other negligence or disregard for the rest of us

and you wont even help do any of that because moar is better or slippery slope, or thoughts and prayers are enough, or other asinine platitudes

290
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:34:19am

It’s this idea because we won’t stop all gun violence that it’s a waste of time to come up with legislation that bothers me. Really because we did nothing after 9/11 to prevent future terrorist attacks? Because we’ve done nothing to prevent drunk driving? Done nothing for air safety?

291
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:36:19am

we now enter the “congratulating himself” phase of the day:

292
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:37:37am

re: #199 Backwoods_Sleuth

JFC

#POTUS to children: “I want you to know that you are never alone and you never will be. You have people who care about you, who love you and who will do anything at all to protect you. If you need help, turn to a teacher, a family member, a local police officer.”

he thinks children are watching him right now?

no dont go there.. i mean young ‘uns

293
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:37:39am

re: #291 Backwoods_Sleuth

we now enter the “congratulating himself” phase of the day:

“Think of all those people that hate gun owners. That is why we must unite together.”

294
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:38:07am

re: #291 Backwoods_Sleuth

we now enter the “congratulating himself” phase of the day:

[Embedded content]

You separate families, you divide communities, & you know nothing about actual faith.

295
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:40:07am
296
plansbandc  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:41:29am

This is honestly the first time I’ve ever felt chastised here. I guess it’s time for a break.

297
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:45:52am

Republican Senator Bill Nelson (Florida) seems to be breaking from the NRA and GOP and saying things like assault rifles need not be legal and available and background checks are needed for all gun purchases.

And he differs from Marco and said Marco does not know that in response to being told Marco doesn’t think any of that will work.

The NRA will get right to it. Yep, they will start sending money to anyone that opposes Nelson and runs against him. That is what they do.

298
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:46:17am

re: #296 plansbandc

This is honestly the first time I’ve ever felt chastised here. I guess it’s time for a break.

Maybe it’s the first time you’ve been wrong. That would be a pretty good record.

299
ObserverArt  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:47:48am

re: #296 plansbandc

This is honestly the first time I’ve ever felt chastised here. I guess it’s time for a break.

It’s just discussion. Don’t feel bad. And remember, these gun discussions are tough on everyone. We all feel frustrated by it all.

300
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:48:52am
301
DodgerFan1988  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:49:15am

Republican’s solution to gun violence? More guns.

302
Bubblehead II  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:49:15am

re: #294 HappyWarrior

You separate families, you divide communities, & you know nothing about actual faith.

I so stole that for a tweet to IT.

303
FormerDirtDart  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:50:18am

“… “Because FL Republicans are cowards bought and paid for by the National Rifle Association, they snuck in a gun provision inside of the Agriculture bill making its way through Tallahassee,” Cuba writes. “SB740 is scheduled to be heard by the Senate Appropriations Committee TOMORROW Thursday Feb. 15 at 1 PM.”

Cuba noted that bill is intended to deal with “oyster harvesting, revising standards of water vending machines, and more.”

“However, conveniently tucked in pages 88-90 of this 98 page bill is language that would require the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services to grant a Concealed Weapons Permit applicant their permit within 90 days, even if a full background check has not been completed,” he revealed. “No one should be granted a concealed weapons permit unless a full background check has been completed. That’s just common sense.” …”

304
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:50:49am

re: #296 plansbandc

I thought your comments were spot on FWIW.

305
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:52:12am

re: #303 FormerDirtDart

Gross.
Absolutely disgusting.

306
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:52:25am

re: #303 FormerDirtDart

307
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:53:23am

re: #295 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

IN LEAKED CHATS, WIKILEAKS DISCUSSES PREFERENCE FOR GOP OVER CLINTON, RUSSIA, TROLLING, AND FEMINISTS THEY DON’T LIKE (The Intercept)

GG: There’s nothing to see here! Please disperse!

308
electrotek  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:54:09am

re: #45 Anymouse 🌹

[Embedded content]

Wow, they are truly showing their colors, aren’t they?

309
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:54:15am

Okay, let’s see who stopped by to kiss Preznit Baby’s tiny little ring…

310
Interesting Times  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:55:27am

re: #242 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Is this WGN network a Sinclair station? It’s got to be, spewing that sort of garbage…

311
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:55:32am
312
Bubblehead II  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:56:36am
313
lawhawk  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:57:00am
314
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:57:27am

re: #273 Renaissance_Man

as with abortion, the framing has to change from gun “control” to gun “accountability” or responsibility

premeditated mass shootings are horrific and draw our attention.
preventing all future mass shootings is not possible.

making people responsible for their own actions, including recklessly selling, trading, storing, etc will have some impact, especially if it includes jail and sue-able financial penalties.

the more people’s freedom and finances are threatened, the more carefully most will behave.

“control” impiles (to many), registering, and / or eventually taking or confiscating. It’s a loser tactic.

“Personal responsibility” is way easier to market than “control”.

315
lawhawk  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:57:37am
316
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:57:47am

re: #310 Interesting Times

Is this WGN network a Sinclair station? It’s got to be, spewing that sort of garbage…

Dog help us

317
CongoJack  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:57:52am

re: #309 makeitstop

Okay, let’s see who stopped by to kiss Preznit Baby’s tiny little ring…

[Embedded content]

Am I so pessimistic that I believe they will doctor the visitor list?

Yes… yes I am.

318
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 9:58:44am

My poor friend had a trip to Wakanda planned tonight at a special screening but the flu came thru with a 101 fever.

319
Skip Intro  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:00:34am
320
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:01:09am

re: #315 lawhawk

BREAKING: School shooter trained with white supremacists “nice people”, as our President once referred to them.

321
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:01:38am

re: #309 makeitstop

BREAKING: The Trump administration just backed down and settled our FOIA lawsuit to obtain the White House visitor logs they were trying to keep secret.

Deep State coup against our MAGA president!

322
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:01:54am

re: #297 ObserverArt

Republican Senator Bill Nelson (Florida) seems to be breaking from the NRA and GOP and saying things like assault rifles need not be legal and available and background checks are needed for all gun purchases.

And he differs from Marco and said Marco does not know that in response to being told Marco doesn’t think any of that will work.

The NRA will get right to it. Yep, they will start sending money to anyone that opposes Nelson and runs against him. That is what they do.

im for trying stuff and see if something works. we used to call that “testing”

323
FormerDirtDart  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:02:13am
324
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:05:08am

re: #310 Interesting Times

Is this WGN network a Sinclair station? It’s got to be, spewing that sort of garbage…

Tribune media. WGN stands for World’s Greatest Newspaper.

325
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:05:53am

re: #315 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

326
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:06:01am

re: #323 FormerDirtDart

Flu vaccines just 25% effective against worst strain this year, CDC says

25%? what’s the point then

they should stop administering them immediately

327
electrotek  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:06:10am

Decided to break my Twitter hiatus

328
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:06:44am

re: #327 electrotek

We have a lot more than one.

329
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:06:45am
330
electrotek  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:07:15am

re: #329 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Someone should pull up his tweets from the Paris terrorist attacks.

331
Skip Intro  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:07:17am

332
electrotek  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:07:30am

re: #328 JordanRules

We have a lot more than one.

Which right-wingers are in complete denial about.

333
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:07:56am

oh…

334
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:08:23am

re: #313 lawhawk

And so goes the “he was a Democrat” or “he was in the Resistance” defense.

335
electrotek  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:09:18am

re: #334 Belafon

And so goes the “he was a Democrat” or “he was in the Resistance” defense.

BUT THE KKK WERE DEMOCRATS!!!

336
William Lewis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:10:52am

re: #314 dangerman

as with abortion, the framing has to change from gun “control” to gun “accountability” or responsibility

premeditated mass shootings are horrific and draw our attention.
preventing all future mass shootings is not possible.

making people responsible for their own actions, including recklessly selling, trading, storing, etc will have some impact, especially if it includes jail and sue-able financial penalties.

the more people’s freedom and finances are threatened, the more carefully most will behave.

“control” impiles (to many), registering, and / or eventually taking or confiscating. It’s a loser tactic.

“Personal responsibility” is way easier to market than “control”.

The best way to do this would be, I believe,
1) Require licenses at age 18 or 21 depending on type that
a) require theoretical training on gun safety & first aid & gun laws
b) require medical exam (mental and physical)
c) require a practical test (handling & shooting)
d) IF all of the above passed, it’s a must issue license.

2) Insurance requirement ala automobiles but there has to be affordable options for all
3) Criminal integrity - if convicted of any felony, a license is revoked until voting rights are restored.
4) Personal Responsibility - if convicted of any misdemeanor of violence, criminal shooting (illegal hunting for example), issuance of restraint order, etc. license is revoked. 3 months first offence, 6 months second offense, 12 months third, permanent after that.
5) Police are required to take firearms into protective custody within 4 hours of revocation of license. They are to be returned if/when the license is restored.

I’d prefer there to be levels of license as well, perhaps the difficulty of the exams would determine them? A - regular hunting firearms B - handguns C - “assault” firearms D - NFA firearms E - Collector?

337
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:11:47am

re: #324 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Tribune media. WGN stands for World’s Greatest Newspaper.

From the Ajit Pai article

A few weeks later, Sinclair Broadcasting announced a blockbuster $3.9 billion deal to buy Tribune Media

it doesn’t look like it’s happened.

338
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:12:04am

re: #336 William Lewis

And require the license to be shown when buying ammunition.

339
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:12:36am
340
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:12:46am

re: #335 electrotek

BUT THE KKK WERE DEMOCRATS!!!

When the wingnuts turn against the Republican party, it’ll be “The Republicans were founded by Progressives”.

341
lawhawk  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:12:59am

re: #336 William Lewis

The best way to do this would be, I believe,
1) Require licenses at age 18 or 21 depending on type that
a) require theoretical training on gun safety & first aid & gun laws
b) require medical exam (mental and physical)
c) require a practical test (handling & shooting)
d) IF all of the above passed, it’s a must issue license.

2) Insurance requirement ala automobiles but there has to be affordable options for all
3) Criminal integrity - if convicted of any felony, a license is revoked until voting rights are restored.
4) Personal Responsibility - if convicted of any misdemeanor of violence, criminal shooting (illegal hunting for example), issuance of restraint order, etc. license is revoked. 3 months first offence, 6 months second offense, 12 months third, permanent after that.
5) Police are required to take firearms into protective custody within 4 hours of revocation of license. They are to be returned if/when the license is restored.

I’d prefer there to be levels of license as well, perhaps the difficulty of the exams would determine them? A - regular hunting firearms B - handguns C - “assault” firearms D - NFA firearms E - Collector?

Too sensible. The NRA will NEVER allow anything like that.

342
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:13:05am

re: #297 ObserverArt

Republican Senator Bill Nelson (Florida) seems to be breaking from the NRA and GOP and saying things like assault rifles need not be legal and available and background checks are needed for all gun purchases.

And he differs from Marco and said Marco does not know that in response to being told Marco doesn’t think any of that will work.

The NRA will get right to it. Yep, they will start sending money to anyone that opposes Nelson and runs against him. That is what they do.

Isn’t Senator Nelson a Democrat, not a Republican?

343
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:13:11am

re: #333 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh…

NEW: FCC Chair @AjitPaiFCC Being Investigated for Improper Coordination With Sinclair Broadcasting

couldn’t happen to a nicer Pai

344
electrotek  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:13:39am

re: #342 Hecuba’s daughter

Isn’t Senator Nelson a Democrat, not a Republican?

Oh yeah you’re right on that.

345
William Lewis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:13:41am

re: #338 Belafon

And require the license to be shown when buying ammunition.

No different than a drivers license now to prove age or the card that already exists in Illinois for example so yeah.

346
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:13:50am
347
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:14:30am

Chris Hayes notes that the GOP has spent hella money here and yet we’re right there.

348
William Lewis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:15:21am

Oh, and one other thing - accepting a license also requires the holder to be subject to call up as part of the militia and a minimum of 1 day a year proving continuing competency on safe handling.

“Well Regulated” ya’all.

349
lawhawk  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:15:21am

re: #346 Backwoods_Sleuth

Orphaned 19 year old?

Yeah, it’s just some poor lost soul.

Nope. He was of age and acted like an adult. None questioned his ability to get an AR-15 at age 18. None dare question his ability to buy ammo for same gun.

But now that he murdered 17 people, he’s an orphan?

Fuck that.

350
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:15:47am

re: #347 JordanRules

Chris Hayes notes that the GOP has spent hella money here and yet we’re right there.

This is where Democrats and the campaign need to emulate Doug Jones and GOTV.

351
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:16:19am
352
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:18:30am
353
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:18:57am

re: #336 William Lewis

The best way to do this would be, I believe,
1) Require licenses at age 18 or 21 depending on type that
a) require theoretical training on gun safety & first aid & gun laws
b) require medical exam (mental and physical)
c) require a practical test (handling & shooting)
d) IF all of the above passed, it’s a must issue license.

2) Insurance requirement ala automobiles but there has to be affordable options for all
3) Criminal integrity - if convicted of any felony, a license is revoked until voting rights are restored.
4) Personal Responsibility - if convicted of any misdemeanor of violence, criminal shooting (illegal hunting for example), issuance of restraint order, etc. license is revoked. 3 months first offence, 6 months second offense, 12 months third, permanent after that.
5) Police are required to take firearms into protective custody within 4 hours of revocation of license. They are to be returned if/when the license is restored.

I’d prefer there to be levels of license as well, perhaps the difficulty of the exams would determine them? A - regular hunting firearms B - handguns C - “assault” firearms D - NFA firearms E - Collector?

What do you do in the case that the parents legally acquired the weapons but their child is barred from using them ? Too many loopholes. Certain weapons and magazines should be barred, period.

354
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:19:26am

re: #336 William Lewis

The best way to do this would be, I believe,
1) Require licenses at age 18 or 21 depending on type that
a) require theoretical training on gun safety & first aid & gun laws
b) require medical exam (mental and physical)
c) require a practical test (handling & shooting)
d) IF all of the above passed, it’s a must issue license.

2) Insurance requirement ala automobiles but there has to be affordable options for all
3) Criminal integrity - if convicted of any felony, a license is revoked until voting rights are restored.
4) Personal Responsibility - if convicted of any misdemeanor of violence, criminal shooting (illegal hunting for example), issuance of restraint order, etc. license is revoked. 3 months first offence, 6 months second offense, 12 months third, permanent after that.
5) Police are required to take firearms into protective custody within 4 hours of revocation of license. They are to be returned if/when the license is restored.

I’d prefer there to be levels of license as well, perhaps the difficulty of the exams would determine them? A - regular hunting firearms B - handguns C - “assault” firearms D - NFA firearms E - Collector?

this is interesting

it is very thoughtful and workable stuff and diametrically opposed to my approach. And it doesn’t matter. My approach would be entirely different, as i’ve written (poorly and incompletely) here in the past.

In general though, once there is good faith agreement to act, the rest - the how - is details. you try stuff see what works, tweak and adjust, recognize failures, etc.

the gop/nra dont want to participate at all. they dont accept the premise. they wont act. we never get to good faith

355
lawhawk  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:20:08am
356
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:21:50am

re: #351 Backwoods_Sleuth

While the Republicans and Democrats in Congress are working hard to come up with a solution to DACA, they should be strongly considering a system of Merit Based Immigration so that we will have the people ready, willing and able to help all of those companies moving into the USA!

— Donald J. Trump

Portion of tweet written by someone else in bold.

357
The Vicious Babushka  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:22:15am

re: #349 lawhawk

Orphaned 19 year old?

Yeah, it’s just some poor lost soul.

Nope. He was of age and acted like an adult. None questioned his ability to get an AR-15 at age 18. None dare question his ability to buy ammo for same gun.

But now that he murdered 17 people, he’s an orphan?

Fuck that.

Wasn’t that the Menendez brothers defense after they murdered their parents?

Before that, it was the punch line in a joke about “What is chutzpah?” [Someone who murders his parents and then begs for mercy from the court because he’s an orphan]

358
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:22:25am

re: #350 Belafon

This is where Democrats and the campaign need to emulate Doug Jones and GOTV.

yard signs

359
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:24:16am

The gentleman running against Steve King.

360
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:24:27am

re: #351 Backwoods_Sleuth

While the Republicans and Democrats in Congress are working hard to come up with a solution to DACA

reverse your sept 2017 decision
done

361
William Lewis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:25:03am

re: #353 Hecuba’s daughter

What do you do in the case that the parents legally acquired the weapons but their child is barred from using them ? Too many loopholes. Certain weapons and magazines should be barred, period.

Parents are liable the same way that the driver of a getaway car is liable. If a child kills with a parents weapon, both parents need to be charged with murder as well. That could happen now if the DA had a pair.

Bans won’t happen in any meaningful way. Ban AR-15’s? They become some other name. Ban certain features? There are ways around all of them (look up “California legal”). Magazines? Even if we somehow stopped production there are far too many in the wild.

Better to change behavior.

We did not ban cars. We did not ban alcohol. But a DWI is a much worse thing today than when I was 18. That’s what we can do with guns.

362
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:25:07am

re: #355 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

I’m not seeing drawbacks to what Cruz said.

363
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:25:57am

re: #359 JordanRules

The gentleman running against Steve King.

[Embedded content]

God I hope he wins. King is a do nothing bigoted stain.

364
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:26:41am

re: #355 lawhawk

365
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:27:51am
366
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:28:40am

re: #358 dangerman

yard signs

Sometimes yard signs work. There was a very bitter mayoral race over 20 years ago in my suburb (where I used to live). Although nominally non-partisan, the Republican used yard signs, the Democrat didn’t —- and the Republican unseated the incumbent Democrat. The issues were all local; nothing relevant to the national stage at that time or even today.

367
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:28:45am

re: #353 Hecuba’s daughter

What do you do in the case that the parents legally acquired the weapons but their child is barred from using them ? Too many loopholes. Certain weapons and magazines should be barred, period.

secure storage
control your weapons

if a parent (or anybody) recklessly gives a legally acquired weapon to anyone (their child or otherwise) who lost their 2A rights, jail, fines and civil liability for whatever is done with that weapon.

the parent owns the weapon. the parent is responsible for its storage, use, misuse, sales, transfer, lending, etc.

368
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:29:01am

Just a thought - Aren’t people who are clamoring for teachers to be armed the same folks who otherwise think teachers are incompetent boobs who can’t do anything right?

369
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:29:34am

re: #365 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

There’s no constitutional right to coffee hurr hurr.

370
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:29:36am

Seems that some of the high school kids don’t like Tomi. There’s hope for the future.

h/t Daily Kos

371
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:29:50am

re: #368 makeitstop

Just a thought - Aren’t people who are clamoring for teachers to be armed the same folks who otherwise think teachers are incompetent boobs who can’t do anything right?

Si.

372
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:31:04am

re: #370 Belafon

[Embedded content]

Seems that some of the high school kids don’t like Tomi. There’s hope for the future.

h/t Daily Kos

Yet Tomi never objects to people who blame the lack of religion in public schools or secularism for shooting, only people who go after guns.

373
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:31:53am

re: #357 The Vicious Babushka

Wasn’t that the Menendez brothers defense after they murdered their parents?

Before that, it was the punch line in a joke about “What is chutzpah?” [Someone who murders his parents and then begs for mercy from the court because he’s an orphan]

my favorite chutzpah joke is “he had a hat

374
Jay C  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:33:19am

re: #352 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Wow! that’s a potentially HUGE decision: but it’s the Second Circuit: it’s a certainty that CU will appeal to SCOTUS .

375
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:33:37am

re: #361 William Lewis

….
Better to change behavior.

We did not ban cars. We did not ban alcohol. But a DWI is a much worse thing today than when I was 18. That’s what we can do with guns.

loss of your freedom and/or your finances for your voluntary bad behavior are great motivators

376
Barefoot Grin  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:33:52am

re: #355 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

“If the black race is allowed to vote on an equal basis with the white race….”

377
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:33:58am

I paused just for a second remembering it is only 5.

378
Jay C  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:34:32am

re: #355 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

SRSLY: Cruz says that like it’s a BAD thing?????

379
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:35:44am

re: #366 Hecuba’s daughter

Sometimes yard signs work. There was a very bitter mayoral race over 20 years ago in my suburb (where I used to live). Although nominally non-partisan, the Republican used yard signs, the Democrat didn’t —- and the Republican unseated the incumbent Democrat. The issues were all local; nothing relevant to the national stage at that time or even today.

sure it’s not a panacea. in this case, it worked for jones.
“neighbor-to-neighbor legitimization” is what they called it

“it’s ok to vote for doug. I am”

380
Barefoot Grin  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:35:50am

re: #370 Belafon

[Embedded content]

Seems that some of the high school kids don’t like Tomi. There’s hope for the future.

h/t Daily Kos

Damnitall. I’m checking kyra’s TL and crying at my desk and have students about to come in…..

381
Flying Squirrel Girl  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:36:16am

re: #355 lawhawk

This seems to be today’s talking point. I hate-listened to Rush on my way to/from lunch just now and he was saying the same thing.

382
Hecuba's daughter  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:37:26am

re: #367 dangerman

secure storage
control your weapons

if a parent (or anybody) recklessly gives a legally acquired weapon to anyone (their child or otherwise) who lost their 2A rights, jail, fines and civil liability for whatever is done with that weapon.

the parent owns the weapon. the parent is responsible for its storage, use, misuse, sales, transfer, lending, etc.

But the parent does not necessarily give it to their offspring — the child figures out how to access it, and we are in the same situation as now. It won’t be until after the child commits the crime that the parent could be charged.

383
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:38:51am

re: #370 Belafon

Can the Left let the families grieve for even 24 hours before they push their anti-gun and anti-gunowner agenda? My goodness. This isn’t about a gun it’s about another lunatic

with a school shooting almost EVERY OTHER DAY this year, actually WHEN, Tomi?

384
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:39:12am
385
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:39:24am

re: #374 Jay C

Schneiderman’s office has been working it’s ass off.

386
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:39:28am

re: #370 Belafon

That’s a pretty fancy name for a parrot.

387
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:40:25am
388
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:40:28am

re: #377 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

I paused just for a second remembering it is only 5.

they should be careful
things go downhill after 44

389
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:41:20am

re: #355 lawhawk

I cannot see the tweet being replied to. Could you repost that one?

390
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:41:49am

re: #381 Flying Squirrel Girl

This seems to be today’s talking point. I hate-listened to Rush on my way to/from lunch just now and he was saying the same thing.

They know they’ve alienated millions of immigrants and their children from even considering their bigoted excuse for a party and they don’t want to accept the consequences.

391
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:42:49am
392
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:42:53am
393
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:43:06am

re: #382 Hecuba’s daughter

But the parent does not necessarily give it to their offspring — the child figures out how to access it, and we are in the same situation as now. It won’t be until after the child commits the crime that the parent could be charged.

It will be incumbent on the parent to keep it properly secured. If they don’t want to be charged after their kid uses the gun, they will have to prove that all reasonable measures were taken. I’m a parent. It is my responsibility to make sure they act responsible with my stuff.

394
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:43:31am

re: #387 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

And Trump’s new budget proposes taking mental health coverage away from millions of Americans again. And he signed a law to make it easier for the mentally ill to get guns.

395
Khal Wimpo (the extinguisher of tiki torches)  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:43:36am

Cheechako posted an interesting piece about how “moderate” Republicans are starting to mutter about the only way to save the GOP would be to smack it across the nose by voting against all GOP candidates, up and down the board, until it renounces Trump.

My take:

This may work. The outcome I long predicted for Trump was that he would succumb to his own overweening ego and break away into a 3rd party, splitting the Batshit Crazy from the Smart But Evil.

If he suffers a stinging defeat this fall - as in, a historic 100-seat swing in the House - his ego will not allow him to acknowledge that it was HIS fault. Thus, he will lash about for someone to blame.

And he will settle on the GOP. Yes. Yes! That will be it! Must have been those dirty little backstabbers, no sufficiently loyal, always yammering on about decency and integrity and duty and honor. As if those things mattered! Time to show them. Time to launch the Trump Party …

396
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:44:27am
397
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:44:33am

One positive thing about Tammy Lehrer. She doesn’t seem to block the people who push back on her nonsense, like so many other propagandists do.

398
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:45:00am

re: #395 Khal Wimpo (the extinguisher of tiki torches)

Cheechako posted an interesting piece about how “moderate” Republicans are starting to mutter about the only way to save the GOP would be to smack it across the nose by voting against all GOP candidates, up and down the board, until it renounces Trump.

My take:

Don’t forget about the millions of illegal votes Trump will blame.

399
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:45:14am
400
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:45:20am
401
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:45:32am

re: #382 Hecuba’s daughter

But the parent does not necessarily give it to their offspring — the child figures out how to access it, and we are in the same situation as now. It won’t be until after the child commits the crime that the parent could be charged.

secure storage means just that.
keys, locks, chains, offsite. whatever it takes in those circumstances

if you want to take risks you should be open to all kinds of liability.

402
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:45:59am

re: #397 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Yeah Talia Lemons does like the engagement and activity.

403
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:47:18am
404
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:47:51am

re: #401 dangerman

secure storage means just that.
keys, locks, chains, offsite. whatever it takes in those circumstances

if you want to take risks you should be open to all kinds of liability.

If a parents having trouble choosing between easy access to their AR-15 and their children, they definitely don’t need to gun.

405
allegro  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:48:32am

re: #338 Belafon

And require the license to be shown when buying ammunition.

And weapons must be registered. Only ammunition can be purchased for those guns registered.

406
Interesting Times  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:48:39am
407
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:49:02am

re: #361 William Lewis

We did not ban cars. We did not ban alcohol. But a DWI is a much worse thing today than when I was 18. That’s what we can do with guns.

The standard counter argument is that guns are a Constitutional right, while driving is not.

There is a right to bear arms, but no Constitutional right to unrestricted or unlimited access.

408
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:50:32am
409
Jay C  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:51:10am

re: #397 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

One positive thing about Tammy Lehrer. She doesn’t seem to block the people who push back on her nonsense, like so many other propagandists do.

You mean Tomi Lahren? You’re right: she doesn’t block critics: she just ignores them.

410
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:51:19am

Feb 28, 2017.
President Donald Trump has signed a resolution blocking an Obama-era rule that would have prevented an estimated 75,000 people with mental disorders from buying guns.
pbs.org

411
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:51:29am
412
Archangelus  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:51:38am
413
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:52:23am

re: #407 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

The standard counter argument is that guns are a Constitutional right, while driving is not.

There is a right to bear arms, but no constitutional right to unrestricted or unlimited access.

And they ignore that amendment they like to use in all other cases:

The enumeration in the Constitution of certain rights shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Other than requirements placed on ownership, they can’t deny you a car just because.

414
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:52:44am

my shocked face…

415
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:53:03am

re: #400 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Sheriff, run against Cowardly Rubio who is one of the BRA’s biggest cash babies.

416
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:53:17am

re: #410 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Feb 28, 2017.
President Donald Trump has signed a resolution blocking an Obama-era rule that would have prevented an estimated 75,000 people with mental disorders from buying guns.
pbs.org

To be fair, afaik yesterday’s shooter wouldn’t have been blocked by this law. Still, combined with the fact that the GOP wants to eliminate mental health coverage for tens of millions, it shows their hypocrisy and cynicism.

417
Archangelus  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:53:19am
418
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:53:45am

re: #414 Backwoods_Sleuth

my shocked face…

[Embedded content]

I’m sick of Republicans posing with guns like they’re fucking toys.

419
Scottish Dragon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:53:51am

re: #98 lawhawk

teachers packing heat,

I’m in a classroom right now.

Most of you guys know I’m an ex service member…US Army cavalry. Doorgunner…qualified on the M-60, shot the M2 .50 cal etc etc. I own guns.

Now these cretins want me to go practice to get my combat infantry badge (CIB) in the middle of handing out exams, as if putting 100 more guns on campus is actually going to make us safer (as opposed to 100 more opportunities for accidents, thefts and disasters!)

I don’t want guns in my classroom. Not now. Not ever. The fact it is even being suggested with a straight face is terrifying.

420
Bubblehead II  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:54:01am

re: #409 Jay C

You mean Tomi Lahren? You’re right: she doesn’t block critics: she just ignores them.

Or she mutes them as Caribou Barbie claims she does.

421
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:54:03am

422
The Ghost of a Flea  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:54:11am

Think of the white supremacy reveal in these terms:

Embracing racist social theory is another way of feeling superior and strong, and converting interactions with other people into a power dynamic.

Just like the posturing with weapons is a way of representing a desired power dynamic—having or insinuating the capacity to hurt others more competently and readily, than normal.

Just like threats and hitting inside a relationship or after a relationship: they don’t have an intimate partner, they own people.

There is a profile—It’s just not a “mental illness” profile. The use of that term is so hollow I’m tempted to do a page about how meaningless it is. The center of that profile is showing little ability to empathize or relate to others…yet that exact trait is rewarded or excused by the same people that kvetch about “mental disturbance” because they have a non-pathological but still unhealthy delight in power and its use to control others.

423
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:54:32am

re: #416 Big Beautiful Door

To be fair, afaik yesterday’s shooter wouldn’t have been blocked by this law. Still, combined with the fact that the GOP wants to eliminate mental health coverage for tens of millions, it shows their hypocrisy and cynicism.

The latter is why the GOP has no street cred at all on the mental health issue.

424
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:55:02am

re: #397 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

One positive thing about Tammy Lehrer. She doesn’t seem to block the people who push back on her nonsense, like so many other propagandists do.

She probably doesn’t even bother to read them. She drops her stupid little tweets, people go nuts telling her how stupid she is, money is made.

425
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:55:40am

re: #414 Backwoods_Sleuth

my shocked face…

It would be wonderful if these knuckleheads could be shamed for doing this kind of stuff but I know that’s not the world we live in.

426
Scottish Dragon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:55:44am

re: #404 Belafon

If a parents having trouble choosing between easy access to their AR-15 and their children, they definitely don’t need to gun.

Looks like he bought the gun himself after he turned 18. Jesus.

427
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:55:51am

re: #409 Jay C

You mean Tomi Lahren? You’re right: she doesn’t block critics: she just ignores them.

Who?

428
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:55:55am
429
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:56:57am
430
Weaselone  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:57:27am

re: #407 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

The standard counter argument is that guns are a Constitutional right, while driving is not.

There is a right to bear arms, but no Constitutional right to unrestricted or unlimited access.

According to wingnuts, if murderers didn’t have guns, they would kill people with cars. Cars are therefore a weapon and should be protected under the 2nd amendment.

431
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:57:53am

re: #426 Scottish Dragon

Looks like he bought the gun himself after he turned 18. Jesus.

Yep. But we’ve gone down a thread where what if a child uses a gun the parent owns.

432
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:58:20am

re: #392 JordanRules

433
Frenchy  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:58:31am

re: #400 Backwoods_Sleuth

This reminds me of “Joe” the “Plumber’s” open letter a year or two ago where he flat out said something to the effect of “Your dead kids don’t trump my constitutional rights.”

*spit*

434
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:58:32am

re: #403 jaunte

So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!

— Donald J. Trump

Report what behavior to who? That a guy is kooky? That a guy is racist or hates people, makes vague threats of violence? Can we report Dana Mah Gunz and Dan Crazy Bongino for their NRA ads?

435
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:59:31am

re: #434 Sir John Barron

First person we need to report is him!

436
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:59:41am
437
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 10:59:58am

re: #434 Sir John Barron

It’s bullshit, and he knows it’s bullshit.

438
Sir John Barron  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:00:28am

re: #414 Backwoods_Sleuth

In what he called a show of support for the Second Amendment, Republican congressional candidate from Kansas says he’s going ahead with fundraising raffle of AR-15, the type of weapon authorities say was used in Florida school shooting that killed 17. apnews.com

— AP Central U.

“Second Amendment is a great guy doing great things lately, everybody says so.”

Couldn’t this candidate support the Second Amendment by raffling off a pistol? A shotgun?

439
Scottish Dragon  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:02:09am

re: #436 jaunte

440
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:02:13am

re: #407 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

The standard counter argument is that guns are a Constitutional right, while driving is not.

There is a right to bear arms, but no Constitutional right to unrestricted or unlimited access.

What IS missing is any discussion that rights even the 2A come with responsibilities

441
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:02:17am
442
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:03:51am

re: #439 Scottish Dragon

The NRA believes in gun rights right up to the threshold of the NRA offices or convention.

443
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:03:56am

re: #438 Sir John Barron

“Second Amendment is a great guy doing great things lately, everybody says so.”

Couldn’t this candidate support the Second Amendment by raffling off a pistol? A shotgun?

Because they’re not about the 2nd amendment. They’re about the assault weapons industry.

444
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:04:36am

re: #439 Scottish Dragon

If you’re kind of meh, that money will sure help you decide.

445
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:05:29am

re: #417 Archangelus

[Embedded content]

C’mon Mitch. Propose a law for debate. Any law relevant to this shooting

446
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:06:30am
447
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:07:21am
448
Archangelus  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:08:20am
449
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:08:31am

re: #439 Scottish Dragon

The NRA provides pressure in various ways, as we know. It’s not just the money.
But yeah, the gun issue very much has it’s sham “economic anxiety” dressing. They aren’t just lobbying for the industry, they are lobbying for white supremacists and misogynists.

450
sagehen  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:09:13am

re: #361 William Lewis

Better to change behavior.

We did not ban cars. We did not ban alcohol. But a DWI is a much worse thing today than when I was 18. That’s what we can do with guns.

Reducing the automobile death toll was partly about changing behavior, it was also about changing cars and roads.

Seat belt laws. Air bags. Changing what kind of materials were used for windshields. Better shielding around gas tanks. Speed bumps and guardrails in selected locations.

None of which was a magic solution, ending all car deaths… but it’s down 40% from what it was in the 1960’s.

(cell phones probably made a difference too — ambulances get called and get there quicker than they used to).

451
Scottish Dragon  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:09:36am

re: #440 dangerman

What IS missing is any discussion that rights even the 2A come with responsibilities

This.

That is why I suggested some time ago that we bring back the militia concept that is actually part of the 18th century understanding of firearms ownership (IE it was a civic responsibility)

You want to own a gun? Great. You give 8 hours community service every month to law enforcement, local hospital or other approved civic org. Failure to meet service demands over three months mean you turn your weapons in to authorities until you catch up. Also…character will be used in determining your ability to own guns (just like it was in some of the colonies)

452
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:11:36am

re: #427 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Who?

Tummy Larynx, something like that…

453
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:12:16am

re: #439 Scottish Dragon

[Embedded content]

Their position is to take no responsibility and for us to have no recourse for their voluntary and reckless behavior

454
Scottish Dragon  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:13:20am

re: #444 Belafon

GOP politicians in office now at the national level tend to be true believers on gun ownership absolutism.

455
Weaselone  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:14:36am

re: #451 Scottish Dragon

This.

That is why I suggested some time ago that we bring back the militia concept that is actually part of the 18th century understanding of firearms ownership (IE it was a civic responsibility)

You want to own a gun? Great. You give 8 hours community service every month to law enforcement, local hospital or other approved civic org. Failure to meet service demands over three months mean you turn your weapons in to authorities until you catch up. Also…character will be used in determining your ability to own guns (just like it was in some of the colonies)

That was one of my old positions. Now I’m thinking the better idea is just to have every gun owner show up in the village square or suitable alternative and PT them until every single one collapses from exhaustion. Repeat monthly.

456
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:14:41am

Money on money as an epiphenomenon:

“…a closer look at the background check vote — and NRA influence generally — reveals that there’s more at play than just cash. A lot more. The backgrounds and histories of the two sponsors of the background check amendment — Joe Manchin, a West Virginia Democrat and Pat Toomey, a Pennsylvania Republican — illustrate some of those complexities.

Both Manchin and Toomey have “A” ratings from the NRA — or at least they did until last month. Both represent states with large numbers of gun owners. Pennsylvania has more NRA members than any other state, and sells more hunting licenses each year (2.5 million in 2012) than any state except Wisconsin. And Toomey has been the Senate’s leading beneficiary of NRA largesse. In 2010 the NRA spent more than $1.79 million to elect him and an additional $1.15 million on negative advertising to defeat his Democratic opponent Joe Sestak Jr. Thanks in part to those court decisions that loosened campaign finance limits, the nearly $3 million the NRA spent on the Toomey race was more than three times the total amount spent by the NRA for all of Toomey’s Senate colleagues combined between 2000 and 2010.

Asked about its spending on Toomey — the most the NRA has ever spent on any candidate — NRA President Keene joked, “It just shows what money can do for you.” The reality, however, as Keene acknowledged, is that the NRA’s spending on that particular race — in which Toomey spent a total of $17 million against his opponent’s $12 million — may have very well made a critical difference. Toomey won by only two percent of the vote.
publicintegrity.org

It looks like the NRA’s position is that we shouldn’t be paying attention to what they spend.

457
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:15:00am

re: #446 Backwoods_Sleuth

Cool, God is going to help GOTV for Dems this fall.

458
dangerman  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:15:48am

re: #439 Scottish Dragon

[Embedded content]

And I think the money influence on the right doesn’t matter.

It’s a simple effective message to mobilize those who want change
It’s easy for anyone to understand
The money is disproportionately important to the rest of us

That’s it’s power for us

459
Skip Intro  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:15:58am

re: #414 Backwoods_Sleuth

my shocked face…

[Embedded content]

And we have the winner.

littlegreenfootballs.com

(I made a mistake and called it an AK-47 but my heart was in the right place). I knew these shits couldn’t wait to be the first to offer the murder gun as a prize.

460
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:17:21am

re: #449 JordanRules

The NRA provides pressure in various ways, as we know. It’s not just the money.
But yeah, the gun issue very much has it’s sham “economic anxiety” dressing. They aren’t just lobbying for the industry, they are lobbying for white supremacists and misogynists.

True, the NRA commands a bloc of committed voters convinced they need an arsenal for the coming race war.

461
JordanRules  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:19:18am

re: #460 Big Beautiful Door

We saw the crazy numbers during the black Presidency.

462
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:22:30am
463
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:23:56am

“…Under the bill, those wishing to sue businesses in federal court over an ADA public-accommodations violation must first deliver a written notice to that business detailing the illegal barrier to access and then give that business 60 days to come up with a plan to address the complaints and an additional 60 days to take action.”
washingtonpost.com

464
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:24:39am

re: #462 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Fortunately that won’t be able to pass the Senate.

465
Skip Intro  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:25:10am

re: #418 HappyWarrior

I’m sick of Republicans posing with guns like they’re fucking toys.

That’s all you need to say.

466
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:26:13am

re: #462 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Back when the GOP had some decency.

467
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:26:41am

re: #465 Skip Intro

That’s all you need to say.

You’re right. Good call on the auction btw.

468
makeitstop  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:26:44am
469
Dave In Austin  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:26:51am
470
Skip Intro  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:27:01am

re: #429 Backwoods_Sleuth

Waterboard him. They could do it on Hannity’s show so Hannity could point out it isn’t torture.

471
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:27:02am
472
jaunte  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:27:23am

At my business, we designed the parking, the entrance, the doors, the restrooms, and the kitchen according to the ADA rules. It wasn’t that big a deal. This is just the GOP punching down once again on a constituency they think is weaker than the businessmen who don’t want to go to the trouble.

473
KGxvi  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:27:25am

re: #456 jaunte

It looks like the NRA’s position is that we shouldn’t be paying attention to what they spend.

Lot of PACs have that fundamental belief.

474
darthstar  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:28:27am
475
Dr. Matt  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:28:40am

Alex Jones: Florida school shooting was “the perfect false flag”: “A white nationalist attacking a multicultural school as a way to make the leftists all look like victims”

Actually, a white nationalist/Trump supporter attacking a multicultural school, or any school, is the most logical and expected outcome in Trump’s America.

476
Skip Intro  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:28:43am

re: #471 Backwoods_Sleuth

Nothing gets past the NRA’s three million dollar man.

477
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:29:14am

re: #471 Backwoods_Sleuth

I guess we can now talk about what to do about guns. Rubio has spoken.

478
Scottish Dragon  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:29:17am
479
KGxvi  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:30:12am

re: #472 jaunte

At my business, we designed the parking, the entrance, the doors, the restrooms, and the kitchen according to the ADA rules. It wasn’t that big a deal. This is just the GOP punching down once again on a constituency they think is weaker than the businessmen who don’t want to go to the trouble.

The ADA has been in place for 25+ years. Pretty much all of commercial construction practices are built around it.

While there have been some abuses of the enforcement provisions of the ADA (several lawyers have been disbarred for predatory tactics), the answer isn’t repealing the law.

480
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:30:33am

re: #475 Dr. Matt

Alex Jones: Florida school shooting was “the perfect false flag”: “A white nationalist attacking a multicultural school as a way to make the leftists all look like victims”

Actually, a white nationalist/Trump supporter attacking a multicultural school, or any school, is the most logical and expected outcome in Trump’s America.

FFS you miserable fuck, they were kids not “leftists.” No wonder why you lost custody of your kids, miserable fuck.

481
Scottish Dragon  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:30:47am

had to fix the above comment a couple times…sorry.

482
HappyWarrior  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:31:13am

re: #471 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

No shit Rubio.

483
electrotek  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:31:34am

re: #475 Dr. Matt

Alex Jones: Florida school shooting was “the perfect false flag”: “A white nationalist attacking a multicultural school as a way to make the leftists all look like victims”

Actually, a white nationalist/Trump supporter attacking a multicultural school, or any school, is the most logical and expected outcome in Trump’s America.

Christ, echoes of Utoya yet again.

484
Belafon  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:31:38am

re: #475 Dr. Matt

Alex Jones: Florida school shooting was “the perfect false flag”: “A white nationalist attacking a multicultural school as a way to make the leftists all look like victims”

Actually, a white nationalist/Trump supporter attacking a multicultural school, or any school, is the most logical and expected outcome in Trump’s America.

“He can’t be real, because he’s exactly what the left said we were.”

485
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:31:51am

re: #460 Big Beautiful Door

True, the NRA commands a bloc of committed voters convinced they need an arsenal for the coming race and gender war.

they are terribly afraid of strong women

486
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:32:53am

he retweeted this:

then went on a rant:

again with that ignorant “catch and release” bullshit.

487
KGxvi  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:33:08am

re: #485 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

they are terribly afraid of strong women

Kamala Harris must keep them up at night.

488
Romantic Heretic  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:35:12am

re: #442 jaunte

Reminds me of this hilarious video I saw recently.

The New Face of the NRA

489
Big Beautiful Door  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:35:32am

re: #469 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

Even so, I support a higher gas tax. Reducing emissions is critically important, so anything that Trump would actually sign to do that is worth doing.

490
Backwoods_Sleuth  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:36:10am
491
Scottish Dragon  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:36:10am

re: #486 Backwoods_Sleuth

he retweeted this:

again with that ignorant “catch and release” bullshit.

Since when does the spox for DHS start sounding like a breitbart columnist?

492
KGxvi  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:36:16am

re: #486 Backwoods_Sleuth

Is it wrong that I really want this bill (that I haven’t even read) to pass with veto-proof majorities? And that I want Trump to veto it and then for Congress to override his veto?

493
KGxvi  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:36:36am

re: #491 Scottish Dragon

Since when does the spox for DHS start sounding like a breitbart columnist?

January 21, 2017.

494
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Feb 15, 2018 • 11:54:14am

re: #469 Dave In Austin

On the heels of a massive, regressive package of tax cuts, Donald Trump has found a tax he’s eager to raise:

The one you pay at the pump.

That would appear to be a tax that will hit Conservatives in their big trucks hard, and Liberals in their hybrids the least, generally speaking.


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