The Kindle Controversy in Detail

TechnologyJuly 2009 • Views: 7,199

Glenn Fleishman has a good article at TidBITS on the controversy over Amazon’s apparently Orwellian deletion of two George Orwell books from customers’ Kindles: Double Plus Ungoods: Amazon Unpublishes Orwell.

Note: it doesn’t seem to have been publicized much, but Amazon has admitted they made a mistake with this move, and promised not to do it again.

Amazon ripped two George Orwell books, their hearts still beating, from the Kindles of its customers. Reaction to the move provoked a firestorm of opinion related to ownership and permission, and Amazon swore off deleting customers’ content from the Kindle again. However, the firm also found itself in an awkward position, one that most reports seem to have ignored or glossed over.

The blast erupted from Amazon deleting two works - in a stunning bit of poetic reality, “Nineteen Eighty-Four” and “Animal Farm” - that it says a third-party Kindle content publisher lacked the rights to offer for sale. The publisher, MobileReference, sells formatted versions of public-domain works, among other titles.

Amazon certainly made the wrong move by deleting the books remotely without advance warning, taking along with them any associated bookmarks and notes. There was no question that customers purchased the books in good faith. However, the company was also certainly required to resolve a situation in which it was violating copyright.

It’s worth looking at how this situation - a somewhat unusual case - arose, along with what Amazon has previously said about the rights it gives Kindle subscribers, and what this bodes for the future.

Read the whole thing for an interesting look at the tangled web of Digital Rights Management.

Meanwhile, Amazon now has competition from Barnes & Noble, who’ve announced a new e-book store that isn’t dependent on a single device.

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413 comments

Noam Sayin' Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:14:26pm

Excellent. Now the prices will come down.

I love a free marketplace.

Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:15:56pm

re: #1 Noam Sayin’

Too bad nobody in the White House or congress does…

hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:15:56pm

I think the Jupiter problem resulted from the Kindle anomaly.

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:16:03pm

The Kindle is really a Telescreen!

*cue spooky music*

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:16:46pm

B and N is my candy shop…I will consider their product

hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:17:01pm

http://www.techdirt.com/ always has some interesting stuff on digital rights.

LionofDixon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:18:44pm

Oceania is at war with Eurasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:18:52pm

re: #4 jcm

The Kindle is really a Telescreen!

*cue spooky music*

I wonder how long it will be before each Kindle is required to play a weekly “Hope and Change” message from CBBHO?

///

Pigtown Water Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:20:45pm

I’m fascinated, since I am new to this, and just got a Kindle.
The deletion of notes is what bothers me especially.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:21:14pm

From the article…

Because Amazon, unlike Apple, didn’t specifically reserve the right of self-help, its remote deletion may both have broken laws and rendered Amazon subject to a lawsuit, although damages would likely be slight. It’s understandable that Amazon wanted to remove all infringing works from all devices, but Kindles aren’t per se under Amazon’s control, and that’s even more true of the Kindle for iPhone software.

“Note: it doesn’t seem to have been publicized much, but Amazon has admitted they made a mistake with this move, and promised not to do it again.”

Let’s only hope that’s the truth.

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:22:39pm

re: #9 Pigtown Water Dog

I’m fascinated, since I am new to this, and just got a Kindle.
The deletion of notes is what bothers me especially.

Bothered a lot of people. Me too. But Amazon knows they blew it, and they say they won’t do it again. I believe them — it’s just good business.

This is a new area of technology, and we’ll probably see more screw-ups like this.

BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:23:01pm

All I did was switch threads and I got logged out. Now, that is suspicious!

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:24:30pm

re: #12 BatGuano

All I did was switch threads and I got logged out. Now, that is suspicious!

We’re on to you.

[deleted] Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:24:44pm

hazzyday Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:25:03pm

It’s odd that it was Orwell books.

BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:26:12pm

re: #13 MandyManners

We’re on to you.

I’m making a list and you’re on it! So is Charles! And you.. and yoou..!

[deleted] Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:26:25pm

doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:27:14pm

As much as I’ve been lusting after the Kindle, and I’m a loyal Amazon customer in general, I will be eager to see what B&N has to offer.

Bloodnok Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:27:25pm

re: #17 TwinkietheKid

I’m still not interested in buying one.

Please keep us informed of updates.

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:27:41pm

re: #17 TwinkietheKid

I’m still not interested in buying one.

Cool - that’s your right. I use my Kindle every single day.

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:28:40pm

re: #18 doppelganglander

As much as I’ve been lusting after the Kindle, and I’m a loyal Amazon customer in general, I will be eager to see what B&N has to offer.

So far, their e-book store is mostly composed of Google’s library of public domain titles — it doesn’t compare to Amazon’s catalog.

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:29:57pm

re: #11 Charles

Bothered a lot of people. Me too. But Amazon knows they blew it, and they say they won’t do it again. I believe them — it’s just good business.

This is a new area of technology, and we’ll probably see more screw-ups like this.

What’s not important is if a company makes a mistake (shit happens) it’s how they respond that counts.

ihateronpaul Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:29:57pm

Amazon is saying it was a mistake for damage control. It was completely intentional. Apple has the ability to “remotely remove iphone apps,” so this isn’t just some sort of conspiracy. It is scary.

The Other Les Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:29:58pm

re: #20 Charles

Cool - that’s your right. I use my Kindle every single day.

I like hard copies. Hard copies can’t be erased.

They can be burned, but that would be over my dead body.

BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:31:04pm

re: #24 The Other Les

They burn at Fahrenheit 451.

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:31:21pm

looks like a kindle comes with it’s own MEMORY HOLE

IS THAT ANYTHING LIKE A GLORY HOLE?

///

HelloDare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:32:00pm

If somebody sells you a car that isn’t there’s to sell, they have the right to take it back. But they don’t have the right to go into your garage and take it.

That’s my book is a car analogy.

Amazon screwed up. No big deal. I don’t think this incident will inspire anybody to write a dystopian novel titled Kindle 451.

Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:32:17pm

re: #24 The Other Les

I like hard copies. Hard copies can’t be erased.

They can be burned, but that would be over my dead body.

You can also clean the seeds out of pot with the back cover, kinda like a biology book from college, so I hear…

Tarkus289 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:32:55pm

re: #27 HelloDare

Oh well…
/puts down his pen.

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:33:09pm

re: #28 Cannadian Club Akbar

NO stems and seeds you don’t need …

callahan23 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:33:41pm

I am calling it quits for today.
See y’all down the road.
I love you (Lizardim} - mostly. Really!

{pink freud} you know why!

J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:33:56pm

The ability to yank something — delete it — whatever — that does bother me…It’s as if you don’t actually own it at all — it’s as if you’re only “borrowing” it…I don’t like that…(I prefer hard copies). The same problem exists (imo) with the IPhone/IPod — you purchase something, say some music — but what happens if the IPod is stolen? isn’t your music then gone too?

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:34:11pm

re: #23 ihateronpaul

Amazon is saying it was a mistake for damage control. It was completely intentional. Apple has the ability to “remotely remove iphone apps,” so this isn’t just some sort of conspiracy. It is scary.

Welcome to the new digital era. I don’t think it’s scary at all. Businesses that do things that irritate consumers will lose — Amazon has undoubtedly lost quite a few sales over this controversy, for example. For companies that want to succeed, there’s a very strong incentive to behave as responsibly as possible.

doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:34:43pm

re: #31 callahan23

Bye, callahan!

doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:35:39pm

re: #32 J.S.

The ability to yank something — delete it — whatever — that does bother me…It’s as if you don’t actually own it at all — it’s as if you’re only “borrowing” it…I don’t like that…(I prefer hard copies). The same problem exists (imo) with the IPhone/IPod — you purchase something, say some music — but what happens if the IPod is stolen? isn’t your music then gone too?

It should still be in your iTunes on your computer. My daughter’s iPod was stolen and she was able to restore all of her music on the new iPod that way.

BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:36:09pm

re: #30 yochanan

From my misspent youth:

Youtube Video

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:36:25pm

re: #23 ihateronpaul

Amazon is saying it was a mistake for damage control. It was completely intentional. Apple has the ability to “remotely remove iphone apps,” so this isn’t just some sort of conspiracy. It is scary.

You are on the internet. You have an IP address…

They can find you!

The Other Les Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:37:28pm

re: #28 Cannadian Club Akbar

You can also clean the seeds out of pot with the back cover, kinda like a biology book from college, so I hear…

Oh, and the food processing plant I worked at today has several machines on the site that dispense chilled Dihydrogen Monoxide for individual consumption.

wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:38:05pm

See, this is why I like books. Once I buy one, I own the sucker. With Kindle, I own the device, but I don’t own the content. Is it effecient in terms of space and such? Yeah. And in terms of dead-tree eco morality, it may have some merit.

But the bottom line is this: property rights. I buy the device, I pay to download content - and - I don’t own my version of the content?

WTF?

Try it with iPods and music downloads and see how far that logic takes you.

And the other thing - books don’t need batteries. Which will probably go the way of the light bulbs and will soon be mandated that we use only certain types - that are, oddly enough, manufactured by GE.

Gimme the damn book and go the fuck away..

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:38:22pm

re: #38 The Other Les

Oh, and the food processing plant I worked at today has several machines on the site that dispense chilled Dihydrogen Monoxide for individual consumption.

OHMYGOD have you reported them!

Think of the children!

J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:38:42pm

re: #35 doppelganglander

hmm…yes, but let’s say you say “to hell with the IPod”…and don’t go out and buy another IPod…then what? the songs you paid for, you can’t put on any device…(in other words, if you had just gone out and bought a CD, hey, it’d still be there, etc.) (and devices are so easily lost/stolen…)

HelloDare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:38:52pm

Rumor has it there’s a tiny camera and microphone in every Kindle. Amazon can see you when you sleep. That’s why I always wrap mine in aluminum foil when I take a nap. /

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:39:57pm

re: #37 jcm

You are on the internet. You have an IP address…

They can find you!

Quick! Do this and you’ll be safe!

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:07pm

re: #14 taxfreekiller

Of some note:

Once upon a time, Vietnan Vet. , Apache descendant of Mangus Colorados, 100 mile bike rider of HHH in August for 27 years said…

B. Obama is as full of shit as a Christmas turkey.

This moment in time the shit burst out from over load, and squirts out all over Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid.

To bad so sad.

Your family had a very different concept of Christmas turkeys than mine!

Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:11pm

re: #38 The Other Les

Oh, and the food processing plant I worked at today has several machines on the site that dispense chilled Dihydrogen Monoxide for individual consumption.

I eat that stuff. Gives me a slight twitch.

Bloodnok Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:37pm

re: #23 ihateronpaul

Amazon is saying it was a mistake for damage control. It was completely intentional. Apple has the ability to “remotely remove iphone apps,” so this isn’t just some sort of conspiracy. It is scary.

Ripper:

Ah, naah. We’re ok here. Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to deleting Orwell, why, there are studies underway to delete light fiction, reference, large print, periodicals, children’s books? Children’s books, Mandrake.

Mandrake:

Good Lord.

Tarkus289 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:55pm

There is no shortage of trees.

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:55pm

re: #36 BatGuano

and i am down to seeds and stems tooo

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:41:14pm

re: #40 jcm

OHMYGOD have you reported them!

Think of the children!

I just locked away my wallet.

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:41:40pm

re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar

I eat that stuff. Gives me a slight twitch.

It’s a proven fact, consume solid Dihydrogen Monoxide too fast and you can get a wicked headache.

Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:41:54pm

re: #33 Charles

Welcome to the new digital era. I don’t think it’s scary at all. Businesses that do things that irritate consumers will lose — Amazon has undoubtedly lost quite a few sales over this controversy, for example. For companies that want to succeed, there’s a very strong incentive to behave as responsibly as possible.

Excellent point. I wonder if even within a single manufacturer there will be different types of agreements. For instance I could see an extra privacy option that is “no intrusion” but as a result maybe you don’t get the recoverability (purchased material, annotations, your personal files, etc) you would kind of get under a different set of terms that more closely resemble the standard Kindle agreement of today.

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:41:56pm

re: #42 HelloDare

Rumor has it there’s a tiny camera and microphone in every Kindle. Amazon can see you when you sleep. That’s why I always wrap mine in aluminum foil when I take a nap. /

I thought you were supposed to wrap your body in foil.

The Other Les Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:42:55pm

re: #45 Cannadian Club Akbar

I eat that stuff. Gives me a slight twitch.

I eat it frozen.

HelloDare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:22pm

re: #52 MandyManners

I thought you were supposed to wrap your body in foil.

You can but you crinkle when you roll over during the night.

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:31pm

re: #38 The Other Les

Oh, and the food processing plant I worked at today has several machines on the site that dispense chilled Dihydrogen Monoxide for individual consumption.

that stuff can killl youuu

Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:32pm

re: #50 jcm

It’s a proven fact, consume solid Dihydrogen Monoxide too fast and you can get a wicked headache.

I don’t get headaches and haven’t had a cold or the flu in 12 years. I’ll take my chances.

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:44pm

re: #4 jcm

The Kindle is really a Telescreen!

*cue spooky music*

re: #42 HelloDare

Rumor has it there’s a tiny camera and microphone in every Kindle. Amazon can see you when you sleep. That’s why I always wrap mine in aluminum foil when I take a nap. /

Beat ya too it!

;-)

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:45pm

Someone just emailed a link to their new anti-Obama t-shirt site, hoping I’d promote it. They found it through a site that lists the “top ten conservative blogs.”

The logo says “I Hope He Fails.”

I guess they don’t read LGF much.

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:54pm

re: #53 The Other Les

I eat it frozen.

Watch out or you’ll get a wicked headache.

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:44:01pm

re: #52 MandyManners

I thought you were supposed to wrap your body in foil.

No, just your head. Glen Beck does that and he says it helps him by muffling the voices.

///

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:44:15pm

re: #54 HelloDare

You can but you crinkle when you roll over during the night.

And, you know this how?

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:44:26pm

re: #58 Charles

Someone just emailed a link to their new anti-Obama t-shirt site, hoping I’d promote it. They found it through a site that lists the “top ten conservative blogs.”

The logo says “I Hope He Fails.”

I guess they don’t read LGF much.

FAIL!

The Other Les Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:44:58pm

re: #55 yochanan

that stuff can killl youuu

I’m tempted to write to President Obama to ask him to decree a ban on Dihydrogen Monoxide.

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:45:25pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

No, just your head. Glen Beck does that and he says it helps him by muffling the voices.

///

Does he poke holes for his nose and mouth?

BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:45:37pm

I hope Obama fails. What is wrong with that?

HelloDare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:45:41pm

I don’t know about you but I think everybody who ordered this book through Kindle should be monitored 24/7.

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:45:53pm

re: #52 MandyManners

I thought you were supposed to wrap your body in foil.

I keep telling ya’ all, we’ve put nanorepeaters in all tinfoil. Tinfoil amplifies the signal not block it now.

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:45:55pm

re: #58 Charles

Someone just emailed a link to their new anti-Obama t-shirt site, hoping I’d promote it. They found it through a site that lists the “top ten conservative blogs.”

The logo says “I Hope He Fails.”

I guess they don’t read LGF much.

Nope, he doesn’t. Could you set him up with an account though? We need a troll to smack around. Cognito got booted, avanti has gone positive karma, and SpaceJesus isn’t around enough to pound.

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:45:58pm

re: #63 The Other Les

I’m tempted to write to President Obama to ask him to decree a ban on Dihydrogen Monoxide.

fast, normal or slow moving state?

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:46:13pm

re: #65 BatGuano

I hope Obama fails. What is wrong with that?

I hope he fails to bring about his agenda against America.

Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:46:31pm

OT- sorry so early- watching HOUSE on USA and they blasted Anti-Vaxxers. Nice.

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:46:42pm

re: #66 HelloDare

does the book come with it’s own rubber room?

doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:46:42pm

re: #41 J.S.

hmm…yes, but let’s say you say “to hell with the IPod”…and don’t go out and buy another IPod…then what? the songs you paid for, you can’t put on any device…(in other words, if you had just gone out and bought a CD, hey, it’d still be there, etc.) (and devices are so easily lost/stolen…)

Well, that’s true, although you could still listen on your computer. But if someone steals your CD player, you have no way of listening to the CDs unless you buy a new one. I guess it just all depends what you want out of your electronic devices.

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:46:52pm

re: #64 MandyManners

Does he poke holes for his nose and mouth?

For his nose, yes. He’s so loud he doesn’t need to for his mouth.

Noam Sayin' Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:46:53pm

re: #52 MandyManners

I thought you were supposed to wrap your body in foil.

Latex, honey.

Latex.

pat Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:47:23pm

bad Amazon

HelloDare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:47:39pm

re: #61 MandyManners

And, you know this how?

Amazon was spying on my cat. I tested the theory.

BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:47:46pm

re: #70 MandyManners

I hope he fails to bring about his agenda against America.

That’s what I meant. Is there another meaning?

Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:47:51pm

re: #63 The Other Les

I’m tempted to write to President Obama to ask him to decree a ban on Dihydrogen Monoxide.

Reminds of the old George Carlin bit about saliva causing irreparable harm to your body that can result in death… but only when swallowed in small amounts over a long period of time.

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:17pm

re: #67 jcm

I keep telling ya’ all, we’ve put nanorepeaters in all tinfoil. Tinfoil amplifies the signal not block it now.

Who’s gonna’ tell Miss Spankhurts?

avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:19pm

re: #58 Charles

Someone just emailed a link to their new anti-Obama t-shirt site, hoping I’d promote it. They found it through a site that lists the “top ten conservative blogs.”

The logo says “I Hope He Fails.”

I guess they don’t read LGF much.

Top Ten conservative blog.

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:25pm

re: #38 The Other Les

Oh, and the food processing plant I worked at today has several machines on the site that dispense chilled Dihydrogen Monoxide for individual consumption.

Damn them! That stuff is dangerous!

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:31pm

re: #68 Dark_Falcon

Nope, he doesn’t. Could you set him up with an account though? We need a troll to smack around. Cognito got booted, avanti has gone positive karma, and SpaceJesus isn’t around enough to pound.

We need a designated troll, we all take turns…

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:49pm

re: #79 Pianobuff

carlin on global warming was a total hoot.

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:49:05pm

re: #74 Dark_Falcon

For his nose, yes. He’s so loud he doesn’t need to for his mouth.

Might stand to lose a few pounds, too.

*meow*

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:49:22pm

re: #80 MandyManners

Who’s gonna’ tell Miss Spankhurts?

It’s tippy top super duper secret, only those with Level 7 access badges get to know.

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:49:25pm

re: #75 Noam Sayin’

Latex, honey.

Latex.

*giggle*

The Other Les Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:07pm

re: #65 BatGuano

I hope Obama fails. What is wrong with that?

Given the across the board disconnect that these people have from reality failure is certain to occur. It’s not a matter of if, it’s a matter of when.

The sooner, the better.

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:13pm

re: #77 HelloDare

Amazon was spying on my cat. I tested the theory.

Did the cat pee in your shoes later?

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:34pm

re: #78 BatGuano

That’s what I meant. Is there another meaning?

Some say yes.

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:50pm

re: #75 Noam Sayin’

Latex, honey.

Latex.

That and a couple other things, you could have a real party in Vegas!

Noam Sayin' Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:50pm

Gotta take a scooter rider.

Later,

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:15pm

I know very little about this stuff.

I guess my question would be, (and I did read what was put up for the thread) but once you purchase the product, Amazon still had the ability to remove this from your own Kindle?

Would I assume you purchase 1984, download it like I would an album or song from Amazon, and they had the ability to take it back?

Sorry if I am a little dense on this.

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:19pm

re: #86 jcm

It’s tippy top super duper secret, only those with Level 7 access badges get to know.

Badges? We don’t need no steenkin’ badges.

The Other Les Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:39pm

re: #69 yochanan

fast, normal or slow moving state?

All 57 states.

HelloDare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:39pm

re: #89 MandyManners

Did the cat pee in your shoes later?

Worse than that.

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:54pm

re: #92 Noam Sayin’

Gotta take a scooter rider.

Later,

Be safe!

ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:52:10pm

Here’s an observation I found of interest from columnist Steve Chapman. (Hint: the title is a pun):

Political Metaphors Hit Bottom

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:52:18pm

re: #96 HelloDare

Worse than that.

Hair ball on your pillow?

100

Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:53:06pm

re: #96 HelloDare

Worse than that.

Shit on your pillow?

101

HelloDare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:53:24pm

re: #99 MandyManners

Hair ball on your pillow?

Don’t give her any ideas.

102

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:53:34pm

re: #83 jcm

sort of like having a lgf barrel and everybody gets a turn inside it?

///

103

IslandLibertarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:53:45pm

re: #66 HelloDare

I don’t know about you but I think everybody who ordered this book through Kindle should be monitored 24/7.

monitored for what?
no one should be monitored for ordering a book.
Mein Kemph? The Satanic Bible? Dreams of My Father?
You with the thought police?
People with different ideas scare you?

/camel, tent…you know how it goes

104

wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:54:53pm

re: #58 Charles

See, this is what I don’t get. We’re lobbyists. In our world, if you want our opinion you write a check first.

/no free lunch

105

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:54:59pm

re: #60 Dark_Falcon

No, just your head. Glen Beck does that and he says it helps him by muffling the voices.

///

Alex Jones says it keeps the NewWorldOrder/Bilderbergers/ChemTrails away.

Doesn’t help with fluoride, though.

“Hey did you hear the Black Helicopters with the Blue Helmeted UN troops hovering over your house last night?”

“Uh, no, Alex, I didn’t.”

“See!!!”

106

Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:55:13pm

Good night Lizards. Stay scaly. See you all on the morrow.

107

Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:55:22pm

I’m watching Deadliest Catch on Discovery. They’re promoting the premier of a new reality show that puts 10 contestants into a “post-apocalyptic” setting and (presumably) tracks how well they manage to start their own little society. It starts in 5 minutes. I’m gonna give it a ten minute test-viewing. Might be interesting.

108

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:55:26pm

re: #94 MandyManners

Badges? We don’t need no steenkin’ badges.

Antiquated term really, an imbedded chip installed upon registration…

109

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:55:32pm

re: #99 MandyManners

could be worse its not a hair ball.

110

J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:56:22pm

re: #93 formercorpsman

The Kindle is the hardware (like an IPod — the device); the software are the “books” in digital/electronic format which you download…and yeah, apparently, they can wipe it off the Kindle, should they choose to do so…(just as Apple could, theoretically, “delete” some apps, the moment you “sync” your IPod)..

111

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:56:40pm

re: #108 jcm

Antiquated term really, an imbedded chip installed upon registration…

You did read the terms and conditions before click okay at registration didn’t you?

112

Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:12pm

re: #108 jcm

Antiquated term really, an imbedded chip installed upon registration…

NEW WORLD ORDERER!!!

113

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:22pm

re: #104 wahabicorridor

See, this is what I don’t get. We’re lobbyists. In our world, if you want our opinion you write a check first.

/no free lunch

Heh. Exactly. If they want to advertise their product, we have Blogads. There’s a link to click.

But they’re hoping I’m such a dumb ideologue that I’ll promote it for free.

114

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:26pm

re: #105 austin_blue

Alex Jones says it keeps the NewWorldOrder/Bilderbergers/ChemTrails away.

Doesn’t help with fluoride, though.

“Hey did you hear the Black Helicopters with the Blue Helmeted UN troops hovering over your house last night?”

“Uh, no, Alex, I didn’t.”

“See!!!”

Madam Austin, you say you can predict the future but you live in a dump at the edge of town. If you can predict the future, why don’t you pick some winning stocks or bet big on the Superbowl?

You see, I knew you were going to ask that…!

115

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:30pm

re: #110 J.S.

Interesting. I understand the rationale behind having a bad contract, etc.

Did they reimburse for the customer for this?

116

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:34pm

re: #108 jcm

Antiquated term really, an imbedded chip installed upon registration…

Hmmm… “The President’s Analyst”…

117

Noam Sayin' Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:58:38pm

re: #97 MandyManners

Be safe!

Okay.

118

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:58:39pm

Am I assuming that if you own a Kindle, you can’t d/l from Barnes & Noble? I mean, you’d have to buy the B&N device first? My hubby adores his Kindle… if that doesn’t sound to odd.

119

J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:58:57pm

re: #115 formercorpsman

Yes. From what I’ve read — anyone who paid for the books (Orwell’s books, of all things), they reimbursed (put money back into their account)…

120

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:59:03pm

the blue helmets are pussies nothing to fear from them. unless your a little girl or a goat

121

TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:59:05pm

re: #107 Lincolntf

I’m watching Deadliest Catch on Discovery. They’re promoting the premier of a new reality show that puts 10 contestants into a “post-apocalyptic” setting and (presumably) tracks how well they manage to start their own little society. It starts in 5 minutes. I’m gonna give it a ten minute test-viewing. Might be interesting.

That sounds pretty cool. I just flipped it on DSC.

122

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:59:43pm

re: #110 J.S.

The Kindle is the hardware (like an IPod — the device); the software are the “books” in digital/electronic format which you download…and yeah, apparently, they can wipe it off the Kindle, should they choose to do so…(just as Apple could, theoretically, “delete” some apps, the moment you “sync” your IPod)..

I seriously doubt they will use that power again. This was bad publicity for Amazon, and they don’t sell their products when people feel bad about them.

123

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:59:46pm

re: #108 jcm

Antiquated term really, an imbedded chip installed upon registration…

On the butt?

124

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:00:15pm

re: #109 yochanan

could be worse its not a hair ball.

Hacked-up dead mouse?

125

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:00:15pm

re: #123 MandyManners

On the butt?

“In the butt, Bob.”

126

Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:00:32pm

re: #98 ShanghaiEd

Liberals who detested George Bush didn’t depict him this way, and conservatives who loathed Bill Clinton found other ways to express their feelings.

Very selective memory. I can easily google up old photoshops of Bin Laden and Dubbya having anal sex. Clinton blue dress/bj commentary is still popular. There’s much to criticize about ODS sufferers but sexual innuendo in nothing new.

127

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:01:03pm

re: #114 SteveC

Madam Austin, you say you can predict the future but you live in a dump at the edge of town. If you can predict the future, why don’t you pick some winning stocks or bet big on the Superbowl?

You see, I knew you were going to ask that…!

Polishing the crystal ball, shuffling Tarot cards…

Why didn’t I buy Citi in march…

128

yochanan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:01:21pm

good nite my lizards

129

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:01:29pm

re: #125 SteveC

“In the butt, Bob.”

Most definitely!

130

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:01:53pm

re: #98 ShanghaiEd

It’s an extreme image, and as far as I can tell, a new one. Liberals who detested George Bush didn’t depict him this way…

The Bush hatred rhetoric got pretty raw.

131

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:02:01pm

re: #127 austin_blue

Polishing the crystal ball, shuffling Tarot cards…

Why didn’t I buy Citi in march…

*Shakes the Magic 8 ball*

All signs point to STAY THE HELL AWAY!!!

132

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:02:06pm

re: #128 yochanan

good nite my lizards

Be well. Sweet Dreams.

133

Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:02:12pm

re: #108 jcm

Antiquated term really, an imbedded chip installed upon registration…

Even better, self imbedding chip using nano technology. It’s ingested when you get food from a large multi-national food vendor like Dominoes Pizza, McDonald’s, or Black Eyes Pea. Once ingested it works it’s way through the intestinal track and eventually lodges into your tail bone. From then on you are tracked by Dick Cheney, NSA, CIA, Haliburton, Nielsen Media Research, and/or its assigns.

///

134

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:02:16pm

re: #129 austin_blue

Most definitely!

I have pictures!

135

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:03:01pm

re: #116 austin_blue

Hmmm… “The President’s Analyst”…

The Cerebrum Communicator!

Youtube Video

136

J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:03:01pm

re: #122 Charles

(I wonder what would happen if ever some hacker, say, tapped into Amazon, etc…ok, ok, just a thought…) yeah, I agree, I don’t think Amazon would ever do this again…

137

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:03:02pm

re: #119 J.S.

Gotcha. Thanks for the response. I see both sides of the coin.

It is a little daunting to know such ability is commonplace now. Just sitting here thinking about this, I am contemplating the can of worms that result with stuff like this because of mistakes in the digital age.

138

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:03:12pm

re: #118 American Sabra

Am I assuming that if you own a Kindle, you can’t d/l from Barnes & Noble? I mean, you’d have to buy the B&N device first? My hubby adores his Kindle… if that doesn’t sound to odd.

No reason you should’t be able to. Barnes & Noble is selling content, not a device.

Kindles can read the e-book format.

139

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:03:30pm

re: #105 austin_blue

Alex Jones says it keeps the NewWorldOrder/Bilderbergers/ChemTrails away.

Doesn’t help with fluoride, though.

“Hey did you hear the Black Helicopters with the Blue Helmeted UN troops hovering over your house last night?”

“Uh, no, Alex, I didn’t.”

“See!!!”

Had to upding that one.

140

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:03:30pm

re: #133 Gus 802

Even better, self imbedding chip using nano technology. It’s ingested when you get food from a large multi-national food vendor like Dominoes Pizza, McDonald’s, or Black Eyes Pea. Once ingested it works it’s way through the intestinal track and eventually lodges into your tail bone. From then on you are tracked by Dick Cheney, NSA, CIA, Haliburton, Nielsen Media Research, and/or its assigns.

///

And when you buy groceries, you don’t need a loyalty card. You just scrub your ass against the register!

141

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:03:49pm

re: #133 Gus 802

Even better, self imbedding chip using nano technology. It’s ingested when you get food from a large multi-national food vendor like Dominoes Pizza, McDonald’s, or Black Eyes Pea. Once ingested it works it’s way through the intestinal track and eventually lodges into your tail bone. From then on you are tracked by Dick Cheney, NSA, CIA, Haliburton, Nielsen Media Research, and/or its assigns.

///

Damn, it’s in the field? Last I heard it was still in R&D, it sometimes got tail bone, and boner confused… wasn’t pretty.

142

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:05:01pm

re: #135 MandyManners

The Cerebrum Communicator!

[Video]

Yes! Sweet! Thank you. Mandy comes through again!

143

Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:05:12pm

re: #140 SteveC

And when you buy groceries, you don’t need a loyalty card. You just scrub your ass against the register!

“Uh, sir, could you please rub your ass against the GP-ass reader.”

144

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:05:26pm

re: #141 jcm

Damn, it’s in the field? Last I heard it was still in R&D, it sometimes got tail bone, and boner confused… wasn’t pretty.

If you experience an erection lasting four hours or longer, report to Central Command.

145

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:05:42pm

re: #138 lobo91

No reason you should’t be able to. Barnes & Noble is selling content, not a device.

Kindles can read the e-book format.

Thanks! Yes, that was my question. If any downloadable format can be read by Kindle.

146

Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:06:22pm

re: #141 jcm

Damn, it’s in the field? Last I heard it was still in R&D, it sometimes got tail bone, and boner confused… wasn’t pretty.

Don’t tell anyone but you know those air-puff glaucoma tests. Well, lets just say there’s more than air coming through that puff of air.

147

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:06:37pm

re: #135 MandyManners

The bar scene.

Youtube Video

148

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:06:40pm

re: #145 American Sabra

Thanks! Yes, that was my question. If any downloadable format can be read by Kindle.

Doesn’t it have problems with .pdf files? Or was that Kindle One?

149

acwgusa Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:06:55pm

I think this thing got blown way, way out of proportion due to lack of facts. Amazon screwed up by not explaining exactly why it was removing the book from people’s Kindles, and Kindle owners overreacted by calling Amazon a bunch of fascists, censors, etc…

Still, this needs to teach Amazon that they need to review every electronic book very carefully for copyright.

150

BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:07:29pm

re: #90 MandyManners

Some say yes.

Thank you. Dropping it. :)

151

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:07:57pm

re: #148 SteveC

Doesn’t it have problems with .pdf files? Or was that Kindle One?

I don’t know the file format of the Kindle. We have a Kindle 2.

152

J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:08:40pm

re: #149 acwgusa

(I wonder how come Amazon couldn’t have just done a switch-er-roo — a replacement…who’ve caught on?)

153

jantjepietje Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:08:59pm

I think this is a very scary case not because amazon deleted some stuff and why they did it but because they have the technical capability to do so

as this slate article points out the ability to delete things at a distance going to be used by others than just the company, in this case amazon, itself but also by governments and courts forcing companies to get in to their customers machines this way making censorship a whole lot easier

and don’t think that is just rhetoric to scare you it has already happened
FTA:

In 2004, TiVo sued Echostar (which runs Dish Network) for giving its customers DVR set-top boxes that TiVo alleged infringed on its software patents. A federal district judge agreed. As a remedy, the judge didn’t simply force Dish to stop selling new devices containing the infringing software—the judge also ordered Dish to electronically disable the 192,000 devices that it had already installed in people’s homes. (An appeals court later stayed the order; the legal battle is ongoing.) In 2001, a company called Playmedia sued AOL for including a version of the company’s MP3 player in its software. A federal court agreed and ordered AOL to remove Playmedia’s software from its customers’ computers through a “live update.”

154

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:09:03pm

re: #151 American Sabra

I don’t know the file format of the Kindle. We have a Kindle 2.

Word of advice: Don’t leave it lying around. I’m usually a nice guy and I respect other people’s property, but I want one baaad!

155

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:09:14pm

re: #145 American Sabra

Thanks! Yes, that was my question. If any downloadable format can be read by Kindle.

Some more easily than others. It reads e-books directly. Stuff that’s in PDF format has to be converted first, either through the Amazon site or using a downloadable utility on your PC.

I have a bunch of Army manuals on mine, which are all PDF.

156

[deleted] Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:09:35pm

157

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:10:19pm

re: #156 taxfreekiller

Global Warming/Climate Change.

Wind energy is cheap.

Hope and Change.

Cap and Trade.

Al Gore.

John F. Kerry.

Nancy Pelosi and La Raza atty’s write a 1000 page health care bill no one is allowed to read.

Notwithstanding illegal aliens are put on the insured list for U.S. to pay.

B. Obama the guilty dog barks loudest about who its about.

Lies and Fraud at WalMart Prices.

Bull Shit over flow.

Burma Shave.

158

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:10:42pm

re: #155 lobo91

I have a bunch of Army manuals on mine…

Boy, I bet you’re a load of fun at parties!

// ;-P

159

Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:10:58pm

re: #157 Dark_Falcon

Burma Shave.

Niagara Falls!

160

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:11:24pm

re: #149 acwgusa

It’s really only a bad thing if they deleted it for content. Then they’d have a very long list indeed of other books and probably most people wouldn’t bother with the product at all.

But since it was a copyright issue, there’s no need to be upset with Amazon. You can always buy a copy of 1984 or Animal Farm if you want them.

161

jantjepietje Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:11:27pm

re: #33 Charles

Welcome to the new digital era. I don’t think it’s scary at all. Businesses that do things that irritate consumers will lose — Amazon has undoubtedly lost quite a few sales over this controversy, for example. For companies that want to succeed, there’s a very strong incentive to behave as responsibly as possible.

But wouldn’t it be better if they do not have the power altogether?
As I said above companies don’t always get to decide what to do and in case of a monopoly you have serious issues about the rights of individuals

162

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:11:47pm

re: #158 jcm

Boy, I bet you’re a load of fun at parties!

// ;-P

Beats lugging around 20 pounds of paper manuals when I go on missions…

163

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:12:16pm

re: #154 SteveC

If you have a significant other, be extra nice around birthdays and holidays :)

164

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:12:20pm

re: #160 American Sabra

It’s really only a bad thing if they deleted it for content. Then they’d have a very long list indeed of other books and probably most people wouldn’t bother with the product at all.

But since it was a copyright issue, there’s no need to be upset with Amazon. You can always buy a copy of 1984 or Animal Farm if you want them.

Quite Concur.

165

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:12:36pm

re: #153 jantjepietje

I think this is a very scary case not because amazon deleted some stuff and why they did it but because they have the technical capability to do so

as this slate article points out the ability to delete things at a distance going to be used by others than just the company, in this case amazon, itself but also by governments and courts forcing companies to get in to their customers machines this way making censorship a whole lot easier

and don’t think that is just rhetoric to scare you it has already happened
FTA:

And there are some who don’t think that is scary at all. I read that up thread.

166

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:13:00pm

re: #162 lobo91

Beats lugging around 20 pounds of paper manuals when I go on missions…

Got a point there. I bet there are numerous traveling salesmen who would love to have all their sales materials on a Kindle!

167

SteveC Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:13:46pm

re: #163 American Sabra

If you have a significant other, be extra nice around birthdays and holidays :)

I need one of those, too. Hey, my birthday is in September…

168

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:13:51pm

re: #163 American Sabra

If you have a significant other, be extra nice around birthdays and holidays :)

My wife bought me mine (the original version) for my birthday.

I bought her one of the new ones as a graduation present a couple months ago.

169

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:14:06pm

re: #155 lobo91

Some more easily than others. It reads e-books directly. Stuff that’s in PDF format has to be converted first, either through the Amazon site or using a downloadable utility on your PC.

I have a bunch of Army manuals on mine, which are all PDF.

Thanks! How cool! Truth be told, “our” Kindle belongs to Mr. Sabra who is an avid reader. Me, I stick to politics online heh

170

J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:14:26pm

re: #153 jantjepietje

Well, actually, it’s doesn’t even have to be confined to a mere “delete” — it could be a copy and paste (over) job…[insert what you want here]

171

Irish Rose Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:14:53pm

Good evening, dear friends!
How’s everyone this evening?

I confess, I’m still chuckling over the Kindle hate mail.

172

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:15:15pm

re: #166 SteveC

Got a point there. I bet there are numerous traveling salesmen who would love to have all their sales materials on a Kindle!

My reference library is on an SD card.

The K2 lacks that capability, although it does have a much bigger built-in memory.

173

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:15:24pm

re: #160 American Sabra

It’s really only a bad thing if they deleted it for content. Then they’d have a very long list indeed of other books and probably most people wouldn’t bother with the product at all.

But since it was a copyright issue, there’s no need to be upset with Amazon. You can always buy a copy of 1984 or Animal Farm if you want them.

What if you went to a book store, and purchased a hard copy of a book. You brought it home, and one day, after work, you came home and the book was missing.

The book store manager sent an employee over to get the book back because he had found out that the book had violated some law, copyright, hate material, politically dangerous?

Not a bad thing, huh.

174

ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:15:34pm

re: #126 Killgore Trout

Very selective memory. I can easily google up old photoshops of Bin Laden and Dubbya having anal sex. Clinton blue dress/bj commentary is still popular. There’s much to criticize about ODS sufferers but sexual innuendo in nothing new.

re: #130 J.D.

The Bush hatred rhetoric got pretty raw.

Killgore & JD: I agree that crude sexual innuendo (no pun intended) in general is nothing new; I think what Chapman’s pointing out are the images of the president, ah…violating America sexually. (The Uranus connection, for lack of a better term..)

I don’t remember that metaphor at all with Bush or Clinton, and I certainly don’t remember multiple instances of it, or of “respectable” magazines like National Review taking part. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

175

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:15:58pm

re: #162 lobo91

Beats lugging around 20 pounds of paper manuals when I go on missions…

LOL! I bet…

I have one army manual…

176

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:16:19pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

Had to upding that one.

Thanks. I’m not a complete zipperhead. Even capable of rational conversation with rational folks. It’s why I’m here. I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind. I’m just here to hear the other side of the argument on certain issues. On many, such as Islamism, we certainly agree.

Love the Fabrique Nationale battle rifle, BTW. Good gun.

177

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:16:43pm

re: #165 Walter L. Newton

And there are some who don’t think that is scary at all. I read that up thread.

I don’t think it’s scary. Amazon says they’ll never do it again, and I believe them because it would be self-defeating after this uproar.

I guess I have more faith in the free market than you do. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy Kindles. It’s very much in Amazon’s self-interest not to do something like this again, and they apparently realize it.

178

HoosierHoops Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:17:18pm

re: #156 taxfreekiller

Global Warming/Climate Change.

Wind energy is cheap.

Hope and Change.

Cap and Trade.

Al Gore.

John F. Kerry.

Nancy Pelosi and La Raza atty’s write a 1000 page health care bill no one is allowed to read.

Notwithstanding illegal aliens are put on the insured list for U.S. to pay.

B. Obama the guilty dog barks loudest about who its about.

Lies and Fraud at WalMart Prices.

Bull Shit over flow.

I hope today finds you well TFK…
your kind words a couple months ago still ring true and have a healing power…Thank you

179

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:17:20pm

re: #167 SteveC

I need one of those, too. Hey, my birthday is in September…

I hope the Single Lizardettes are paying attention!

180

[deleted] Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:17:31pm

181

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:17:45pm

re: #175 jcm

LOL! I bet…

I have one army manual…

I have that one in hard copy.

Springfield Armory includes it in the box with the M1A.

182

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:18:01pm

re: #176 austin_blue

Thanks. I’m not a complete zipperhead. Even capable of rational conversation with rational folks. It’s why I’m here. I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind. I’m just here to hear the other side of the argument on certain issues. On many, such as Islamism, we certainly agree.

Love the Fabrique Nationale battle rifle, BTW. Good gun.

re: #176 austin_blue

Thanks. I’m not a complete zipperhead. Even capable of rational conversation with rational folks. It’s why I’m here. I don’t expect to change anyone’s mind. I’m just here to hear the other side of the argument on certain issues. On many, such as Islamism, we certainly agree.

Love the Fabrique Nationale battle rifle, BTW. Good gun.

Finally, something we agree on entirely! And its even made in my state of Illinois. What kind of FAL do you have?

183

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:18:30pm

re: #181 lobo91

I have that one in hard copy.

Springfield Armory includes it in the box with the M1A.

Yep… The hard copy I got is a ‘67 version.

184

Ozwitch Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:19:25pm

Amazon use Kindle as a way to sell content. The device is not their main interest except as a vehicle for books.
The B&N reader, on the other hand, looks interesting. It’s made by an independent company Plastic Logic who want to sell their device and don’t appear to be interested in pushing digital content - it’s more of a way to store manuals and documents for business users who go on the road etc. with a small online capacity.

And it reads .pdfs and all common file formats and is letter-sized eg 8.5 x 11. Sounds worth a decent look.

185

mich-again Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:20:50pm

It’s worth looking at how this situation - a somewhat unusual case - arose, along with what Amazon has previously said about the rights it gives Kindle subscribers, and what this bodes for the future.

On sort of a related note, OnStar can now shut off your car if it is reported stolen.

Technology…

186

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:20:52pm

re: #180 taxfreekiller

mission plan, operation plan, rendezvous points, all in your head for all alternates, not one thing in writing or in a kindle or any thing the others can read, find or obtain, and not one way you ever ever forget.

IMO

your the kindle, or your not…

I’m not talking about combat missions. My unit conducts pre-deployment staff training for units going to Iraq and Afghanistan. It’s pretty hard to memorize a few thousand pages of reference materials.

187

Irish Rose Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:21:21pm

re: #177 Charles

I don’t think it’s scary. Amazon says they’ll never do it again, and I believe them because it would be self-defeating after this uproar.

Apparently I have more faith in the free market than you do. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy Kindles. It’s very much in Amazon’s self-interest not to do something like this again, and they apparently realize it.

I’d still like to own a Kindle. I love the concept, and Amazon has good prices on their ebooks.

I’d really like to see the price go down, though… if it does, I may be persuaded to bite.

188

jantjepietje Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:21:57pm

re: #170 J.S.

Well, actually, it’s doesn’t even have to be confined to a mere “delete” — it could be a copy and paste (over) job…[insert what you want here]

Witch would be even more frightening because a delete everyone at least notices right away
What if a writer was sorry for something he wrote and gets an update out to change what he said
Suppose it is a new publication that is completely electronic then nobody would have proof of what the original was or even that there ever was a modification

189

[deleted] Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:22:10pm

190

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:22:34pm

re: #177 Charles

I don’t think it’s scary. Amazon says they’ll never do it again, and I believe them because it would be self-defeating after this uproar.

Apparently I have more faith in the free market than you do. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy Kindles. It’s very much in Amazon’s self-interest not to do something like this again, and they apparently realize it.

As knowledgeable about technology as I am, there is no way I could make the comment you made above. So, you got that wrapped up 100 percent. There is no way they would do this again?

191

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:23:25pm

re: #187 Irish Rose

I’d still like to own a Kindle. I love the concept, and Amazon has good prices on their ebooks.

I’d really like to see the price go down, though… if it does, I may be persuaded to bite.

They actually did just lower the price, to $299.

Still not cheap, though.

192

Irish Rose Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:24:32pm

re: #191 lobo91

They actually did just lower the price, to $299.

Still not cheap, though.

Still too much.

193

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:24:42pm

re: #188 jantjepietje

Witch would be even more frightening because a delete everyone at least notices right away
What if a writer was sorry for something he wrote and gets an update out to change what he said
Suppose it is a new publication that is completely electronic then nobody would have proof of what the original was or even that there ever was a modification

Please. Get a grip. If you think a company like Amazon could pull off that kind of sekrit editing in the digital age, when everyone is connected via the Internet, you’re dreaming.

194

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:25:12pm

re: #182 Dark_Falcon

Finally, something we agree on entirely! And its even made in my state of Illinois. What kind of FAL do you have?

A Mossberg 12-gauge pump with 2-shot loaded up (house gun), and an old H&K 91 I bought when I was sitting alert in SAC in the earliest ’80s. They issued us .38s (yeah, right) but didn’t mind if we had additional guns in our bags. It’s semi-auto, but it shoots flat as a strap.

195

J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:25:34pm

re: #188 jantjepietje

yeah — i recall — this was decades ago — about academics in the literary world, really, really worried about electronic media (since things can be altered so easily)…(Shakespeare, for example, there are raging debates about a single letter — was it a U or was it a V? people at one time earned a PhD based on the arguments…it’s almost funny, given what occurs in the electronic publishing world today…you could have a NY Times writer exclaiming: “Why, I never, ever wrote that!” and the writer could have a point, if it were in digital format only… )

196

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:25:38pm

re: #173 Walter L. Newton

What if you went to a book store, and purchased a hard copy of a book. You brought it home, and one day, after work, you came home and the book was missing.

The book store manager sent an employee over to get the book back because he had found out that the book had violated some law, copyright, hate material, politically dangerous?

Not a bad thing, huh.

Well that’s not what happened at all. It was a legal issue, not a moral issue. The worst you can say about Amazon is that they weren’t careful enough to be sure they had the proper rights to sell what they sold. They didn’t apparently. Some other books may not be able to be sold on the Kindle for the same reason.

The bookstore owner can’t buy the book in the first place if he’s unable legally to sell it so that would never happen.

197

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:25:39pm

re: #190 Walter L. Newton

As knowledgeable about technology as I am, there is no way I could make the comment you made above. So, you got that wrapped up 100 percent. There is no way they would do this again?

That’s what they promised. Do you seriously think they’d break that promise, after this onslaught of bad publicity? I don’t.

198

jantjepietje Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:25:58pm

re: #177 Charles

I guess I have more faith in the free market than you do. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy Kindles. It’s very much in Amazon’s self-interest not to do something like this again, and they apparently realize it.

It is not Amazon’s interest that I’m worried about though it is that of third parties via the courts and the government.

Also I do think that you are being to lightly on drm restricting true ownership one of they key points of the free market is that of ownership but drm makes it so that you really don not truly own whatever electronic data you buy

199

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:26:00pm

re: #193 Charles

Please. Get a grip. If you think a company like Amazon could pull off that kind of sekrit editing in the digital age, when everyone is connected via the Internet, you’re dreaming.

Of course, if someone last month said to me that there is a possibility that Amazon would go into a Kindle from their end and delete content, I would probably have been dreaming.

200

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:28:15pm

re: #174 ShanghaiEd

Dean Fundraising Hatefest

The entire article…
Howard Dean’s Racist Hatefest

Out of curiosity…
Are you in favor of Obamacare?

201

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:28:15pm

re: #199 Walter L. Newton

Of course, if someone last month said to me that there is a possibility that Amazon would go into a Kindle from their end and delete content, I would probably have been dreaming.

This is the first time this issue has come up in human history. Did Amazon get it wrong? Yes, they did - and they admitted it and promised that they’ve learned their lesson and won’t do it again.

202

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:28:17pm

re: #194 austin_blue

A Mossberg 12-gauge pump with 2-shot loaded up (house gun), and an old H&K 91 I bought when I was sitting alert in SAC in the earliest ’80s. They issued us .38s (yeah, right) but didn’t mind if we had additional guns in our bags. It’s semi-auto, but it shoots flat as a strap.

H&Ks are very well made. A semi-auto G# would be a very handy thing and it shows a good sense of weaponry that you chose that rifle.

203

reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:28:53pm

re: #187 Irish Rose

I’d still like to own a Kindle. I love the concept, and Amazon has good prices on their ebooks.

I’d really like to see the price go down, though… if it does, I may be persuaded to bite.

It is still pricey, but for you (and anyone else) thinking about getting a Kindle … I have the Kindle 2, which is the perfect size for what I want the device for, a handy and portable way to tote around my reading. For that it’s the perfect size. I know there is a larger-sized kindle available, but since the font size is adjustable the larger size is not necessary.

Just my .02.

204

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:29:23pm

re: #184 Ozwitch

Amazon use Kindle as a way to sell content. The device is not their main interest except as a vehicle for books.
The B&N reader, on the other hand, looks interesting. It’s made by an independent company Plastic Logic who want to sell their device and don’t appear to be interested in pushing digital content - it’s more of a way to store manuals and documents for business users who go on the road etc. with a small online capacity.

And it reads .pdfs and all common file formats and is letter-sized eg 8.5 x 11. Sounds worth a decent look.

Well I don’t know. Kindle’s aren’t cheap. About $300 give or take $20-30. Books can be as cheap as $5-7. We’ve even gotten some oldies free. So I think it’s the device they want to sell.

205

ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:29:54pm

re: #191 lobo91

They actually did just lower the price, to $299.

Still not cheap, though.

True. I just had a flashback to taking out a bank loan to buy a laser printer for my Macintosh in the 1980s. Don’t remember the exact figure, but I know I’ve paid less for a used car. :)

So, going by that example, I’m guessing the Kindle of the year 2020 will be, maybe, $20 to $25? I could work with that.

206

mich-again Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:31:14pm

re: #177 Charles

I think the bigger PR damage isn’t because what books were involved or even why Amazon did what they did. To me its the notion they could do it at all. What else could you buy where something like this could happen? The seller reaches into your house and pulls the thing back to the store.

207

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:31:18pm

re: #199 Walter L. Newton

Of course, if someone last month said to me that there is a possibility that Amazon would go into a Kindle from their end and delete content, I would probably have been dreaming.

Walter, what I think Charles is saying is that Amazon was presented with two books by a “publisher” that didn’t have the rights to them, was faced with the copyright lawsuit stick, yanked them, and instituted controls to ensure that future content would not be so compromised. Problem solved.

208

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:31:36pm

re: #201 Charles

This is the first time this issue has come up in human history. Did Amazon get it wrong? Yes, they did - and they admitted it and promised that they’ve learned their lesson and won’t do it again.

Well, then, that’s that. I’m reassured.

209

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:31:46pm

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

H&Ks are very well made. A semi-auto G3 would be a very handy thing and it shows a good sense of weaponry that you chose that rifle.

PIMF

210

The Other Les Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:32:12pm

re: #185 mich-again

On sort of a related note, OnStar can now shut off your car if it is reported stolen.

Technology…

I decided a long time ago to avoid the products of the General Motors Corporation. This was largely due to the difficulties I was having in performing simple repairs to several of their cars. Notably the bitch of a time I was having in replacing the alternators.

I’m sticking with Ford.

211

LC LaWedgie Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:32:25pm

Youtube Video

_{Red Clay Halo - Gillian Welch & David Rawlings}

212

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:32:42pm

re: #207 austin_blue

Walter, what I think Charles is saying is that Amazon was presented with two books by a “publisher” that didn’t have the rights to them, was faced with the copyright lawsuit stick, yanked them, and instituted controls to ensure that future content would not be so compromised. Problem solved.

See mich-again’s #206 which explains what I have been saying.

213

HoosierHoops Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:34:54pm

re: #205 ShanghaiEd

True. I just had a flashback to taking out a bank loan to buy a laser printer for my Macintosh in the 1980s. Don’t remember the exact figure, but I know I’ve paid less for a used car. :)

So, going by that example, I’m guessing the Kindle of the year 2020 will be, maybe, $20 to $25? I could work with that.

Think of technology a hundred years from now..The Internet is what 20 years old…at the most? The future is wonderful for technology…

214

jantjepietje Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:35:11pm

re: #201 Charles

This is the first time this issue has come up in human history. Did Amazon get it wrong?

That simply isn’t true as I have show already by quoting a part from that slate article and with 10 minutes on google I could give you a dozen more examples

Amazon consciously built in this capability not because of some experiment they simply followed apple’s and others example of doing this and using it too

215

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:35:42pm

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

H&Ks are very well made. A semi-auto G# would be a very handy thing and it shows a good sense of weaponry that you chose that rifle.

The 7.62 NATO is overly loud and concussive, punishes your shoulder, and kills anything out to 800 yards (at least, with this gun). Best deer gun in the world.

Also, it looks wicked cool.

What I’d love for a fun gun is an MP-5.

216

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:35:42pm

It doesn’t make sense. Why would they pull books off the Kindle that they sell in hard copy online?

1984

Animal Farm

Amazon isn’t censoring anything. Nor do they have the desire to do so.

217

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:37:04pm

Well I guess I can’t speak to their “desire”. At the moment, it doesn’t seem to be the case anyway.

218

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:38:06pm

re: #216 American Sabra

It doesn’t make sense. Why would they pull books off the Kindle that they sell in hard copy online?

1984

Animal Farm

Amazon isn’t censoring anything. Nor do they have the desire to do so.

Digitial rights, the vendor that used Amazon to sell the digital copies didn’t have the rights to do that. In essence, the vendor used Amazon to shop lift copies of the books.

219

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:38:14pm

re: #214 jantjepietje

That simply isn’t true as I have show already by quoting a part from that slate article and with 10 minutes on google I could give you a dozen more examples

So please do — give me some more example of e-books that were sold under false pretenses, and then deleted from e-book readers.

I’ll wait.

220

mich-again Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:38:17pm

re: #210 The Other Les

I was just pointing out how thats another example of the seller being able to exert control over the thing they sold to you after you bought it from them. In that case, shutting off a stolen car, is something the customer might want to take advantage of I suppose.

221

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:39:06pm

re: #212 Walter L. Newton

See mich-again’s #206 which explains what I have been saying.

Yes, I understand the sentiment, I just think you are getting into Alex Jones territory here. To use an obscure literary reference, Amazon cannot become the corporate Cut-Me-Own-Throat Dibbler.

(Sausage? Onna stick? Inna bun?)

222

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:39:08pm

re: #215 austin_blue

The 7.62 NATO is overly loud and concussive, punishes your shoulder, and kills anything out to 800 yards (at least, with this gun). Best deer gun in the world.

Also, it looks wicked cool.

What I’d love for a fun gun is an MP-5.

You need to mention your HK-91 to Realwest. He loves 7.62x51mm rifles.

223

jantjepietje Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:39:11pm

re: #193 Charles

Please. Get a grip. If you think a company like Amazon could pull off that kind of sekrit editing in the digital age, when everyone is connected via the Internet, you’re dreaming.

You don’t have to misspell secret to show your contempt for my opinion and I’m not wearing a tin foil hat thank you

I’m not making anything up all this stuff already happened before just not as high profile as with amazon

it’s 4:37 am here now but I’ll google you a list of examples tomorrow if that may convince

224

pat Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:40:05pm

Somehow I doubt freeing 25,000 criminals will help California’s budget for any significant period of time. In fact it will exacerbate local budgets enormously. Why do they not instead free 25,000 social workers from the burden of employment?

225

FamHistoryGuy Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:40:18pm

re: #180 taxfreekiller

Or use to wrap cigars in.

226

The Other Les Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:41:43pm

re: #224 pat

Somehow I doubt freeing 25,000 criminals will help California’s budget for any significant period of time. In fact it will exacerbate local budgets enormously. Why do they not instead free 25,000 social workers from the burden of employment?

[grin]

227

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:42:06pm

re: #215 austin_blue

The 7.62 NATO is overly loud and concussive, punishes your shoulder, and kills anything out to 800 yards (at least, with this gun). Best deer gun in the world.

Also, it looks wicked cool.

What I’d love for a fun gun is an MP-5.

And as for the MP-5, in your state you could own one. The problem is that they are very expensive. I’d go with one of the Sterlings I’ve seen advertised lately. Less expensive and very reliable. As a bonus, this was the gun the was dressed up to be the Imperial Stormtrooper’s blaster rifles in the first three Star Wars movies.

228

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:42:21pm

re: #224 pat

Good laugh.

229

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:42:34pm

re: #218 jcm

Digitial rights, the vendor that used Amazon to sell the digital copies didn’t have the rights to do that. In essence, the vendor used Amazon to shop lift copies of the books.

OK… I can see that. Yes, digital copyright, as Charles explained, is a new field and they’re getting the kinks worked out.

No company wants to take back product. It’s like a recall. It’s embarassing to the company, consumers lose faith in company and they lose money, or don’t make the sale. So from that prospective, I imagine Amazon won’t make the mistake twice.

230

CurlyDave Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:42:40pm

They may be admitting they made a mistake now, but it is too little, too late.

I will never buy a kindle.

If someone wants to sell me electronic books, it better be a .pdf file that is not tied to a specific computer, or device, and that I own.

I think this is going to cost Amazon big time.

231

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:42:46pm

re: #224 pat

Somehow I doubt freeing 25,000 criminals will help California’s budget for any significant period of time. In fact it will exacerbate local budgets enormously. Why do they not instead free 25,000 social workers from the burden of employment?

good question…state pensions in CA are tanking so fast it’s boggling

232

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:43:19pm

re: #223 jantjepietje

You don’t have to misspell secret to show your contempt for my opinion and I’m not wearing a tin foil hat thank you

I’m not making anything up all this stuff already happened before just not as high profile as with amazon

it’s 4:37 am here now but I’ll google you a list of examples tomorrow if that may convince

Every book available in an electronic edition through the Kindle is also available in hard copy. How long do you think it would take for the word to get out that Amazon was editing the Kindle versions, if they were ever so foolish as to do something like that?

I give it about 4 minutes, tops. And Amazon knows it.

233

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:43:26pm

re: #210 The Other Les

Doesn’t Ford have Onstar, too, now?

Both my cars have it and neither is a GM product.

234

mich-again Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:43:36pm

re: #201 Charles

I would hazard a guess that at least a few stolen things have been sold on eBay. (Actually I think its the world’s biggest fence for stolen goods outside of Washington DC)

There might be examples of police investigating crimes and tracing stolen goods to eBay buyers and then grabbing the goods back. I’m not sure how they handle that. Its kind of the same situation. Does eBay get a bad rap when a customer gets hosed like that?

235

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:44:04pm

re: #224 pat

Somehow I doubt freeing 25,000 criminals will help California’s budget for any significant period of time. In fact it will exacerbate local budgets enormously. Why do they not instead free 25,000 social workers from the burden of employment?

Because the social workers belong to a union that would start bouncing out legislators if that happened. Citizen’s Revolts come and go, but government unions keep right existing and the politician who desires a long career does not forget that.

236

NelsFree Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:44:53pm

re: #215 austin_blue

The 7.62 NATO is overly loud and concussive, punishes your shoulder, and kills anything out to 800 yards (at least, with this gun). Best deer gun in the world.

Also, it looks wicked cool.

What I’d love for a fun gun is an MP-5.

Good evening all,
Hey Austin! How’s that “scope and range” working out for ya’?
/h

Also a big hello to Janet Jetpie! I’m interested in examples of deletions, too. I might have a beer while waiting.
/goes to fridge

237

jantjepietje Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:45:27pm

re: #219 Charles

So please do — give me some more example of e-books that were sold under false pretenses, and then deleted from e-book readers.

I’ll wait.

Come on if you have to narrow the definition down to “e-books that were sold under false pretenses, and then deleted from e-book readers.” you know you already lost

anyway I’ll come back tomorrow getting in to an online fight aftr a drinking night is never a good idea

238

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:45:35pm

re: #229 American Sabra

OK… I can see that. Yes, digital copyright, as Charles explained, is a new field and they’re getting the kinks worked out.

No company wants to take back product. It’s like a recall. It’s embarassing to the company, consumers lose faith in company and they lose money, or don’t make the sale. So from that prospective, I imagine Amazon won’t make the mistake twice.

Don’t you understand it’s the fact that they can CALL INTO YOUR DEVICE WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION and delete things, poke around, look around.

Yea, they may not do it again, but you don’t see any problem with the fact that they can? You don’t see any problem with the fact that they sold these devices WITHOUT TELLING THEIR CUSTOMERS THAT THEY COULD DO THIS.

You see nothing, no problems, before or after this incident?

239

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:46:27pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

You need to mention your HK-91 to Realwest. He loves 7.62x51mm rifles.

My Da commanded an F-4 squadron in Chu Lai in 1970. Presidential Unit Citation. When he left, an old Gunny, who was also leaving within a couple of days, gave him a 1944 Match Spec M1-A1 Garand. My Da sold it not long after getting back because there were so many young kids still in the house (I was the oldest of five at 14).

Now *that* would have been a rifle to have!

240

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:46:43pm

re: #233 J.D.

Doesn’t Ford have Onstar, too, now?

Both my cars have it and neither is a GM product.

OnStar is only available on GM products or cars from companies that GM owns.

241

HoosierHoops Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:10pm

re: #223 jantjepietje

You don’t have to misspell secret to show your contempt for my opinion and I’m not wearing a tin foil hat thank you

I’m not making anything up all this stuff already happened before just not as high profile as with amazon

it’s 4:37 am here now but I’ll google you a list of examples tomorrow if that may convince

I’ll give you the 4:37am time frame…Just so you understand..Amazon got it right you dumbass…They protected everyone including themselves by taking positive action in a digital right world…It goes like this..upon further review…
They protected all parties by there action..No one was hurt and all were protected…Tread lighty..I believe in being fair

242

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:30pm

re: #239 austin_blue

My Da commanded an F-4 squadron in Chu Lai in 1970. Presidential Unit Citation. When he left, an old Gunny, who was also leaving within a couple of days, gave him a 1944 Match Spec M1-A1 Garand. My Da sold it not long after getting back because there were so many young kids still in the house (I was the oldest of five at 14).

Now *that* would have been a rifle to have!

drooling

243

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:37pm

re: #222 Dark_Falcon

You need to mention your HK-91 to Realwest. He loves 7.62x51mm rifles.

I love mine!

re: #215 austin_blue

The 7.62 NATO is overly loud and concussive, punishes your shoulder, and kills anything out to 800 yards (at least, with this gun). Best deer gun in the world.

Also, it looks wicked cool.

What I’d love for a fun gun is an MP-5.

Every thing like about the 7.62 NATO! Mines in a Troy chassis, squares the recoil into the should much better, less punishing.

244

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:46pm

re: #237 jantjepietje

Come on if you have to narrow the definition down to “e-books that were sold under false pretenses, and then deleted from e-book readers.” you know you already lost

anyway I’ll come back tomorrow getting in to an online fight aftr a drinking night is never a good idea

“E-books sold under false pretenses” is the topic of this thread. You said you were going to come up with numerous examples where this has happened. Why do I have the feeling you won’t be able to come up with any?

245

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:48:57pm

re: #241 HoosierHoops

I’ll give you the 4:37am time frame…Just so you understand..Amazon got it right you dumbass…They protected everyone including themselves by taking positive action in a digital right world…It goes like this..upon further review…
They protected all parties by there action..No one was hurt and all were protected…Tread lighty..I believe in being fair

And you are not brother by the fact that they could control certain aspect of the device from their end, without your permission, and evidently without any pre-notice that they could do this, or that the were going to do this?

246

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:49:09pm

re: #240 lobo91

Hmmm… I have an Acura RL with it. My other car has a different version of pretty much the same thing.

247

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:50:59pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

Don’t you understand it’s the fact that they can CALL INTO YOUR DEVICE WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION and delete things, poke around, look around.

Yea, they may not do it again, but you don’t see any problem with the fact that they can? You don’t see any problem with the fact that they sold these devices WITHOUT TELLING THEIR CUSTOMERS THAT THEY COULD DO THIS.

You see nothing, no problems, before or after this incident?

What poking around? This isn’t a PC. It holds books. Period. Books I bought from them. Books they have stored on their servers. I don’t have anything they don’t have. They have our credit card info. So what. If I was frightened that Amazon would somehow… I don’t know. What is it that you’re saying they going to do anyway? They’ve had my personal info for years.

We have tight PC security at home. That’s something, of course, I worry about. And do something about, but that’s not the Kindle.

248

J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:51:20pm

hmmm…according to that Slate article, the “problems” occurred due to “Someone uploaded bootlegged copies using the Kindle Store’s self-publishing system” — “self-publishing system” ? ! ? well, gee whiz, i wonder how that happened…(o brother, might have more to do with amazon’s “self-publishing” system? maybe?)

249

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:51:35pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

Do you have a Kindle, Walter? It’s a terrific device.

250

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:52:56pm

re: #246 J.D.

Hmmm… I have an Acura RL with it. My other car has a different version of pretty much the same thing.

Does it actually work? I think they made the earlier analog version available to some other manufacturers for awhile, but those units don’t work anymore.

251

NelsFree Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:53:12pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

Because the social workers belong to a union that would start bouncing out legislators if that happened. Citizen’s Revolts come and go, but government unions keep right existing and the politician who desires a long career does not forget that.

The National Education Association (NEA) grew during FDR’s time in office. Jimmy Carter established the Dept of Education, which helped funnel money to public schools. H’m, I see a pattern emerging here…
Anyway, here in NC, the NEA has a lock on the Legislature. Charter schools are capped at 100 for the entire state.

252

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:54:02pm

Dueling threads. Electronic privacy and things that go “Bang!”

Hmmm…

Looking for a way to harmonize the conversation…

Maybe if the Kindle was a detonating device…

253

Charles Johnson Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:55:05pm

re: #248 J.S.

hmmm…according to that Slate article, the “problems” occurred due to “Someone uploaded bootlegged copies using the Kindle Store’s self-publishing system” — “self-publishing system” ? ! ? well, gee whiz, i wonder how that happened…(o brother, might have more to do with amazon’s “self-publishing” system? maybe?)

Anyone can put a book up for sale through the Kindle, by signing up for Amazon’s Digital Text Platform. After this debacle, I’m sure they’re going to start monitoring the submissions more carefully to make sure they have the right to publish.

254

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:55:10pm

GM’s OnStar Signs Honda’s Acura RL, Talks to Toyota

255

HoosierHoops Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:55:15pm

re: #245 Walter L. Newton

And you are not brother by the fact that they could control certain aspect of the device from their end, without your permission, and evidently without any pre-notice that they could do this, or that the were going to do this?

a few years from now when you write the most fucking play ever and somebody ripped it off and offered it for free to the world..Well yea…I think you deserve payment…
And a recall device? You fucking betcha! Sorry about your luck.*wink*
/I’m teasing you Walter

256

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:55:41pm

re: #252 austin_blue

Dueling threads. Electronic privacy and things that go “Bang!”

Hmmm…

Looking for a way to harmonize the conversation…

Maybe if the Kindle was a detonating device…

dual purpose Kindle in semi auto 45apc…works for me

257

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:56:02pm

re: #245 Walter L. Newton

I’ll say this. Mistake or not, saying sorry only goes so far with me anymore.

I accept they made a mistake. The other component in this, like some others have also mentioned, is the actual ability to what they did in the first place.

You can’t convince me for one second, every time a download occurs, there is not some type of information gathering commences whether it be for marketing purposes, etc.

There is no doubt, technology is an awesome thing. It has made medicine what it is today. We just installed digital radiology in our office. A remote connection can read a pacemaker.

I still however, feel there is a privacy issue altogether. I just don’t know. Fool me once…

Anymore, I wish I could say I feel that some sort of moral compass will guide this into the future, but I would not bet my paycheck on it.

258

austin_blue Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:56:49pm

Well, it is late and I must retire. Hopefully, tomorrow will break our 18-day streak of 100 degree days.

We shall see.

Good night, friends. Sweet dreams.

259

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:56:50pm

re: #245 Walter L. Newton

And you are not brother by the fact that they could control certain aspect of the device from their end, without your permission, and evidently without any pre-notice that they could do this, or that the were going to do this?

While I don’t remember them specifically pointing out the capability to delete things remotely, it certainly doesn’t surprise me. I can log into the Amazon site right now and add or delete content from my Kindle, so it follows that they would be able to do the same.

260

J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:57:09pm

re: #253 Charles

Yes — that self-publishing aspect really sounds like a neat idea, though — (but, I guess, as with all “neat things” it’s going to be, unfortunately, abused…that’s really too bad it’s been abused…)

261

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:57:11pm

re: #253 Charles

Anyone can put a book up for sale through the Kindle, by signing up for Amazon’s Digital Text Platform. After this debacle, I’m sure they’re going to start monitoring the submissions more carefully to make sure they have the right to publish.

I didn’t realize that! In retrospect, definitely not a good idea.

262

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:57:23pm

re: #249 American Sabra

Do you have a Kindle, Walter? It’s a terrific device.

I have enough handheld devices that read e-books. Why would I need to spend 300-400 dollars on a Kindle. And I have over 2000 novels and history books with in arms reach in this house.

263

NelsFree Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:57:24pm

re: #252 austin_blue

Dueling threads. Electronic privacy and things that go “Bang!”

Hmmm…

Looking for a way to harmonize the conversation…

Maybe if the Kindle was a detonating device…

You could probably download a book on firearms. Do I win?
/anticipatory ‘woot’

264

dgd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:57:49pm

When books are outlawed only outlaws will have books. I plan to be one of ‘em. With a garage full of hard copies. And you’ll have to pry them from my cold dead hands. Tell Amazon to stuff Kindle.

265

NelsFree Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:58:11pm

re: #258 austin_blue

weet dreams, AB!

266

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:58:16pm

that’s acp

267

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:59:28pm

re: #254 J.D.

GM’s OnStar Signs Honda’s Acura RL, Talks to Toyota

Yeah, that’s the earlier analog version that no longer works.

I had a 2002 Grand Prix that had that system. I got a letter saying the service was going to be discontinued just about the time I traded it in.

268

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:59:35pm

re: #243 jcm

Every thing like about the 7.62 NATO! Mines in a Troy chassis, squares the recoil into the should much better, less punishing.

Another result of the War on Terror: The remake of the M-14. I also ran across this article a few days ago, The USMC is getting scopes for its M240 GPMG’s:

Scopes Make Machine-gun More Lethal

269

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:00:14pm

re: #264 dgd

When books are outlawed only outlaws will have books. I plan to be one of ‘em. With a garage full of hard copies. And you’ll have to pry them from my cold dead hands. Tell Amazon to stuff Kindle.

I bet your knick-name is Sunshine.

270

Gearhead Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:00:46pm

re: #252 austin_blue

Dueling threads. Electronic privacy and things that go “Bang!”

Hmmm…

Looking for a way to harmonize the conversation…

Maybe if the Kindle was a detonating device…

Kindle or Kindling? Discuss.

271

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:01:00pm

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

I have enough handheld devices that read e-books. Why would I need to spend 300-400 dollars on a Kindle. And I have over 2000 novels and history books with in arms reach in this house.

space, the final frontier…paper is dead

272

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:02:02pm

re: #257 formercorpsman

Well I think that’s sort of silly. I mean, certainly if you shop online, you give your credit card, address, phone, name. So why would you do that, yet be worried about info stealing from the Kindle that only holds books? Nothing else is stored on it.

273

jaunte Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:02:11pm

re: #269 MandyManners

It’s all a plot by the American Library Association to enhance the outlaw cachet of reading books.

274

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:02:12pm

re: #267 lobo91

2006 Acura RL

The available OnStar, which comes with a one-year introductory subscription to the Safe and Sound service, notifies emergency services automatically if the RL is involved in any accident in which the airbags deploy.

It doesn’t work?

275

NelsFree Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:02:25pm

Got it! Download this:
[Link: astore.amazon.com…]
into your Kindle
(since it deals with automatic weapons, it should download multiple times before reloading batteries)
No jamming!

276

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:02:32pm

re: #271 albusteve

space, the final frontier…paper is dead

And water is wet.

277

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:02:51pm

re: #249 American Sabra

Do you have a Kindle, Walter? It’s a terrific device.

I’m glad you like yours. I have nothing against the item itself, for those who want it and can afford it. I would not have it for a number of reasons, which I have stated over the last few months here at LGF.

But I have nothing against the device. And, if you do want to buy one, do it through Charles’ link, he gets a few bucks for the referral, which I think is a good thing.

For a matter of fact, click through Charles’ link for all your Amazon purchases.

278

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:03:33pm

re: #262 Walter L. Newton

I have enough handheld devices that read e-books. Why would I need to spend 300-400 dollars on a Kindle. And I have over 2000 novels and history books with in arms reach in this house.

That’s fine. I guess it’s not for everyone. But for the ease to which we can d/l books and the convenience of it, it’s an amazing device. My husband loves it and takes it everywhere.

279

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:03:56pm

re: #274 J.D.

2006 Acura RL

It doesn’t work?

Not anymore. You’re not still paying for a subscription, are you?

280

HoosierHoops Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:04:18pm

Do you think when I told AT&T to stick their DSL service and when there would be cable service…That the 5 days with dial up would be so painful?
I’ve dropped more times in one night than a hooker in Hollywood…
LOL

281

3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:05:07pm

Good evening, the market was up slightly today for the 7th day in a row. I sense some profit taking for tomorrow. Least you think we are out of the woods:

Two Biggest US Pension Funds Suffer Huge Losses

Calpers, the largest U.S. pension fund, said on Tuesday it suffered a record 23.4 percent drop in the value of its assets in the last year.
Separately, the California State Teachers’ Retirement System, or Calstrs, said it posted a 25.0 percent loss in the fiscal year ended June 30.

282

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:05:43pm

re: #279 lobo91

Not anymore. You’re not still paying for a subscription, are you?

It’s not the car I drive, so I can’t say for sure.
Guess I’d better tell someone to check it out.

Glad mine has a different system!

283

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:06:19pm

re: #252 austin_blue

Dueling threads. Electronic privacy and things that go “Bang!”

Hmmm…

Looking for a way to harmonize the conversation…

Maybe if the Kindle was a detonating device…

Or a Walter concealed inside… New meaning for crtl-alt-del.

284

Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:06:28pm

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

I’m glad you like yours. I have nothing against the item itself, for those who want it and can afford it. I would not have it for a number of reasons, which I have stated over the last few months here at LGF.

But I have nothing against the device. And, if you do want to buy one, do it through Charles’ link, he gets a few bucks for the referral, which I think is a good thing.

For a matter of fact, click through Charles’ link for all your Amazon purchases.

Walter - in answer to your query on another thread… yes we were talking about the same thing.

285

Wendya Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:06:53pm

re: #15 hazzyday

It’s odd that it was Orwell books.

Ironic.

286

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:07:18pm

re: #283 jcm

Or a Walter concealed inside… New meaning for crtl-alt-del.

PIMF Walther…

287

3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:07:37pm

Somebody’s buying coffee:
Starbucks Profit Tops Expectations; Shares Soar

Starbucks posted quarterly earnings Tuesday that handily topped analysts’ estimates as the world’s biggest coffee chain began reaping rewards from slashing costs and closing stores, sending its shares higher in extended trading.

Net income for its fiscal third-quarter ended June 28 was $151.5 million, or 20 cents per share. A year earlier, Starbucks reported a net loss of $6.7 million, or 1 cent per share—its first quarterly net loss as a public company.

Excluding restructuring charges, Starbucks earned 24 cents a share in the latest quarter.

288

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:07:37pm

re: #284 Pianobuff

Walter - in answer to your query on another thread… yes we were talking about the same thing.

LOL… good… it gets tiresome, doesn’t it.

289

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:07:49pm

re: #272 American Sabra

Did you read what I wrote? What you just responded to is not really what I was implying.

I realize that information is already out there. I am guilty as charged. This action has really brought it under the microscope however.

Whether or not it has, will, or can happen is beside the point. I still don’t have to like the fact they possess a level of control such as noted in this discussion.

290

Noam Sayin' Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:08:01pm

re: #277 Walter L. Newton

For a matter of fact, click through Charles’ link for all your Amazon purchases.

Here’s another idea. Say you’re going to buy something through Amazon anyway (through no influence from this blog or its participants). Why not post a link of it here, then go make your purchase? I think that would also make Charles a couple bucks.

291

Noam Sayin' Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:08:39pm

re: #290 Noam Sayin’

Using the link you posted, that is.

292

HoosierHoops Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:08:41pm

re: #280 HoosierHoops

Do you think when I told AT&T to stick their DSL service and when there would be cable service…That the 5 days with dial up would be so painful?
I’ve dropped more times in one night than a hooker in Hollywood…
LOL

You could PIMF that post twice and still have issues in the final edit..Dang it!

293

NelsFree Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:09:19pm

(yawns)
Um, it’s getting late. Did everyong decide on what pet to give Pat Buchanan on a previous thread?

294

Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:09:46pm

re: #288 Walter L. Newton

LOL… good… it gets tiresome, doesn’t it.

Well… I guess it’s re-assurance that you are where you thought you were. Kind like knowing you’re in your house because the leaky faucet has a familiar and distinct cadence and tempo to its drip (even as it drives you nuts).

295

3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:10:03pm

Computer chips are not selling so well:

AMD Posts Wider-Than-Expected Loss; Shares Tank

Chipmaker Advanced Micro Devices posted a wider than expected loss and disappointing margins on Tuesday, sending its shares spiralling more than 12 percent lower after-hours.
Margins for the second quarter were 37 percent, close to the 38 percent they hit in the year ago period but behind the 43 percent of the first quarter.

296

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:10:46pm

re: #282 J.D.

It’s not the car I drive, so I can’t say for sure.
Guess I’d better tell someone to check it out.

Glad mine has a different system!

It’s easy enough to find out. Push the button and see if there’s an answer.

It all has to do with analog vs digital cell phone service. The older version used an analog system, which is no longer supported.

Apparently, it was technically possible to have the analog hardware swapped for the new unit by a dealer, but Acura chose not to participate in the swap program, from what I’ve read.

297

NelsFree Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:10:49pm

re: #286 jcm

PIMF Walther…

Actually, I was picturing Walter L. Newton all scrunched up inside, like a Bugs Bunny cartoon!
/Stagecraft, Walter!

298

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:11:07pm

did big Ben do it or not?…burning question

[Link: sports.yahoo.com…]

299

Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:11:09pm

re: #290 Noam Sayin’

Here’s another idea. Say you’re going to buy something through Amazon anyway (through no influence from this blog or its participants). Why not post a link of it here, then go make your purchase? I think that would also make Charles a couple bucks.

Yes, I know. Posting a link to Amazon, or clicking on his “portal” on this site, enable Amazon to track if you make a purchase, and a percentage of the sale goes to Charles.

I think that’s great, I have no problem with that. (I still don’t like the Kindle, or what just happened).

300

OldLineTexan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:11:11pm

re: #285 Wendya

Ironic.

i am in ur kindall, steeling ur orewellz

301

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:12:14pm

re: #295 3 wood

Computer chips are not selling so well:

AMD Posts Wider-Than-Expected Loss; Shares Tank

Not quite that bad, Intel had a bang up quarter but they always do compared to AMD (AKA competition by litigation.)

302

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:12:42pm

re: #297 NelsFree

Actually, I was picturing Walter L. Newton all scrunched up inside, like a Bugs Bunny cartoon!
/Stagecraft, Walter!

With Amazon pulling on his leg trying to get him out…

303

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:12:43pm

re: #289 formercorpsman

Did you read what I wrote? What you just responded to is not really what I was implying.

I realize that information is already out there. I am guilty as charged. This action has really brought it under the microscope however.

Whether or not it has, will, or can happen is beside the point. I still don’t have to like the fact they possess a level of control such as noted in this discussion.

I went back and reread what you wrote, but I still think I understood you. But as you said as an example with the pacemaker, would you not get a pacemaker if you needed one because you know that it can be remotely controlled?

304

3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:13:24pm

Dollar appreciates relative to the euro:

Yen, Dollar Rise as CIT Bankruptcy Concern Spurs Safety Demand

July 22 (Bloomberg) — The yen and the dollar strengthened for a second day against the euro on renewed concern U.S. commercial lender CIT Group Inc. will file for bankruptcy, boosting demand for safer assets.

The yen rose against all 16 major currencies after CIT said it expected to post a loss of more than $1.5 billion and its “existing liquidity” is not enough to repay maturing notes. Australia’s dollar fell as a government report showed the annual inflation rate dropped, backing the case for the central bank to keep interest rates low. The pound weakened after an industry group said the house-price slump will persist, backing the case for policy makers to keep borrowing costs low.

305

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:14:04pm

/More plastic for the landfills and toxic batteries that pollute the environment.
One tree produces so many beautiful books and it’s a sustainable resource.
Besides, ‘turning the page ’ is more elegant than ‘hit enter’./

Besides II, it would take a thief with a truck and dolly to steal MY library.
Not 5 seconds and sticky fingers.

306

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:14:16pm

re: #290 Noam Sayin’

How was the scooter ride?

307

3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:14:21pm

re: #301 CynicalConservative

Not quite that bad, Intel had a bang up quarter but they always do compared to AMD (AKA competition by litigation.)

We need a lot of bang up quarters.

308

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:14:49pm

re: #305 poteen

/More plastic for the landfills and toxic batteries that pollute the environment.
One tree produces so many beautiful books and it’s a sustainable resource.
Besides, ‘turning the page ’ is more elegant than ‘hit enter’./

Besides II, it would take a thief with a truck and dolly to steal MY library.
Not 5 seconds and sticky fingers.

I’m right there with ya; library is measured in metric tons.

309

Racer X Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:14:57pm

re: #287 3 wood

Somebody’s buying coffee:
Starbucks Profit Tops Expectations; Shares Soar

Wow!

I did not see that one coming. Starbucks has been closing locations right and left. McDonald’s is selling a ton of their lower priced specialty coffees.

310

Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:15:16pm

Oh jeeez… looking around at headlines. Uh-oh. Shaking my head. Feeling pretty sure this will end up being discussed here somehow/somewhere.

Have at it…Here.

311

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:15:17pm

re: #296 lobo91

It’s easy enough to find out. Push the button and see if there’s an answer.

I shall do that next time it’s out of the garage.
Thanks!

312

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:15:40pm

re: #308 CynicalConservative

/Death to Kindle!

313

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:15:44pm

re: #307 3 wood

We need a lot of bang up quarters.

Sooo true. Just had to get some props to the dog I have in the game…

Love the updates, thanks for what you post here.

314

jaunte Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:15:46pm

re: #305 poteen

The thief can’t find the Kindle, because you’ve hidden it in a hollowed out book.

315

ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:15:59pm

re: #257 formercorpsman

I’ll say this. Mistake or not, saying sorry only goes so far with me anymore.

I accept they made a mistake. The other component in this, like some others have also mentioned, is the actual ability to what they did in the first place.

You can’t convince me for one second, every time a download occurs, there is not some type of information gathering commences whether it be for marketing purposes, etc.

There is no doubt, technology is an awesome thing. It has made medicine what it is today. We just installed digital radiology in our office. A remote connection can read a pacemaker.

I still however, feel there is a privacy issue altogether. I just don’t know. Fool me once…

Anymore, I wish I could say I feel that some sort of moral compass will guide this into the future, but I would not bet my paycheck on it.

OK, here’s a thought…

For years, the government has been data-mining citizens’ e-mails, phone calls, blog postings, etc., to virtually no protest.

And suddenly we’re worried that Amazon is going to read our annotated Kindle notes on Moby Dick?

What’s wrong with this picture?

Do I trust Amazon more than I trust the government? Yes, I do, for exactly the reasons Charles details about the company’s competitive interest in not pissing people off. The government has no reason to fear pissing people off.

316

MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:16:29pm

re: #310 Pianobuff

Oh jeeez… looking around at headlines. Uh-oh. Shaking my head. Feeling pretty sure this will end up being discussed here somehow/somewhere.

Have at it…Here.

Lou’s a nirther?

317

NelsFree Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:16:30pm

re: #304 3 wood

Dollar appreciates relative to the euro:

Yen, Dollar Rise as CIT Bankruptcy Concern Spurs Safety Demand

Is it true that CIT loans to lots of small businesses? I understand that Obama does not want to bail it out.

318

OldLineTexan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:16:40pm

re: #305 poteen

/More plastic for the landfills and toxic batteries that pollute the environment.
One tree produces so many beautiful books and it’s a sustainable resource.
Besides, ‘turning the page ’ is more elegant than ‘hit enter’./

Besides II, it would take a thief with a truck and dolly to steal MY library.
Not 5 seconds and sticky fingers.

A quibble … I invite you to visit any old paper mill, or nearby body of water. Here’s a hint … don’t eat the fish.

319

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:17:10pm

re: #314 jaunte

The thief can’t find the Kindle, because you’ve hidden it in a hollowed out book.

Ohhh, evil! Damaging books. Burn devil, burn!!!

// Hmmm, athiest invoking devil burn… gotta think about that one…

320

Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:17:13pm

re: #316 MandyManners

Lou’s a nirther?

I just want to crawl in a hole right now. When is this going to stop?

321

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:17:27pm

re: #314 jaunte

The thief can’t find the Kindle, because you’ve hidden it in a hollowed out book.

/ The batteries might leak on my hallowed/ hollowed book!

322

Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:18:42pm

re: #316 MandyManners

Lou’s a nirther?

This is what Ben Smith (Politico) has to say:

Dobbs embraces Birthers

Lou Dobbs offers a vote of confidence in the Birther Movement.

“This isn’t one of those things that goes away quite as easily as I’d thought,” Dobbs says, saying that this isn’t the “fringe” and that Obama hasn’t produced a birth certificate. (He long ago released an official copy, the standard document. As often noted, it actually does go away quite easily.)

“I have no idea what the reality is here,” says Dobbs, later wondering, “You suppose he’s undoc — no, I wouldn’t use the word ‘undocumented,’ wouldn’t be right.”

323

HoosierHoops Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:18:50pm

re: #295 3 wood

Computer chips are not selling so well:

AMD Posts Wider-Than-Expected Loss; Shares Tank

It sucks for AMD…They have the best designs..Intel has all the muscle…
AMD by placing the memory controller on the chip itself instead of running the fetches over the north bridge was genius…Intel has been selling the market with dual cores…Everybody buys them…But AMD has been leading the world in designs for chips..I’m sorry they can’t make any money.Suks!
Ask any gamer…The greatest gamer chip ever made was the FX-57.. by AMD…
It could smoke any chip for memory fetches…I hope AMD survives

324

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:19:08pm

re: #321 poteen

/ The batteries might leak on my hallowed/ hollowed book!

So, was the kitten sharpening it’s claws on your library? ;-)

325

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:20:01pm

re: #318 OldLineTexan

A quibble … I invite you to visit any old paper mill, or nearby body of water. Here’s a hint … don’t eat the fish.

I grew up in the 60s on the Illinois river. We had fish fries every Friday.
What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

326

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:20:14pm

re: #320 Pianobuff

I just want to crawl in a hole right now. When is this going to stop?

I’ve only seen a picture on the internet…fire can’t melt steel

327

3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:20:58pm

I read where Bernanke was talking about the Fed’s “exit strategy” from all the stimulation to try to hold down inflation.

Who is he kidding? That line of baloney might work on people who know absolutely nothing about economics and monetary policy, but he can’t kid me. Here’s why he can’t do much.

With the massive deficit, treasuries have to offer a pretty high rate to sell enough to raise the cash. The Fed’s already have the Fed Funds target at zero, they can only raise it higher. When they raise the discount rate, that contributes to inflation. It also discourages borrowing from the Fed’s (and this is the part most people don’t understand), which serves to shrink the money supply and also indirectly raise interest rates.

All Bernanke’s exit strategy boils down to is raising interest rates plus contracting the money supply, thus extending the recession.

328

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:21:04pm

re: #305 poteen

/More plastic for the landfills and toxic batteries that pollute the environment.
One tree produces so many beautiful books and it’s a sustainable resource.
Besides, ‘turning the page ’ is more elegant than ‘hit enter’./

Besides II, it would take a thief with a truck and dolly to steal MY library.
Not 5 seconds and sticky fingers.

Technically, all they would get is the Kindle, because your books also reside on Amazon’s server. Once you buy a book, you can delete it and reinstall it as often as you like. If your Kindle is stolen, you can deregister it on the Amazon site, and the first time the thief activates th wireless connection, everything would be deleted. Of course, that only applies to actual Kindle format books, not other content, but you’d probably have that stored on your computer somewhere.

329

jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:21:09pm

re: #323 HoosierHoops

It sucks for AMD…They have the best designs..Intel has all the muscle…
AMD by placing the memory controller on the chip itself instead of running the fetches over the north bridge was genius…Intel has been selling the market with dual cores…Everybody buys them…But AMD has been leading the world in designs for chips..I’m sorry they can’t make any money.Suks!
Ask any gamer…The greatest gamer chip ever made was the FX-57.. by AMD…
It could smoke any chip for memory fetches…I hope AMD survives

Bastards / ;-) we had a chip in the north bridge…
More than making it up with the touch screen market.

330

OldLineTexan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:21:27pm

re: #325 poteen

I grew up in the 60s on the Illinois river. We had fish fries every Friday.
What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

I grew up in the ‘60’s downwind of Pasadena, Texas (think refineries for miles) and also downwind of masive cancer rates. So, in a word and with all due respect, bullshit.

331

3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:21:38pm

re: #313 CynicalConservative

Love the updates, thanks for what you post here.

Glad to be of some help.

332

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:21:55pm

re: #324 CynicalConservative

So, was the kitten sharpening it’s claws on your library? ;-)

My brief case. /She never did that again.:)

333

American Sabra Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:22:04pm

re: #315 ShanghaiEd

Stop reading my mind! OMG It’s starting to happen already!!

334

jaunte Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:22:18pm

re: #319 CynicalConservative

re: #321 poteen

I think it would fit in this: (1¢, used)
[Link: www.amazon.com…]

335

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:22:24pm

re: #323 HoosierHoops

It sucks for AMD…They have the best designs..Intel has all the muscle…
AMD by placing the memory controller on the chip itself instead of running the fetches over the north bridge was genius…Intel has been selling the market with dual cores…Everybody buys them…But AMD has been leading the world in designs for chips..I’m sorry they can’t make any money.Suks!
Ask any gamer…The greatest gamer chip ever made was the FX-57.. by AMD…
It could smoke any chip for memory fetches…I hope AMD survives

If they put 1/10th the effort into marketing and manufacturing that they did into litigation and venue shopping, they would be a serious competitor which would be a benefit to all end users. Sad.

336

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:22:58pm

re: #298 albusteve

[deleted]

337

Wendya Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:22:59pm

re: #264 dgd

Tell Amazon to stuff Kindle.

I like and appreciate “real” books. The Kindle textbook version, however, does interest me. I can see where that would be very useful.

338

3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:23:13pm

re: #317 NelsFree

Is it true that CIT loans to lots of small businesses? I understand that Obama does not want to bail it out.

Sorry, I don’t know.

339

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:24:18pm

re: #334 jaunte

re: #321 poteen

I think it would fit in this: (1¢, used)
[Link: www.amazon.com…]

Ahhh, pulp recycling. I approve.

340

3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:24:20pm

re: #323 HoosierHoops

I wonder if someone at Intel is naked short selling them.

341

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:24:38pm

re: #303 American Sabra

Of course. In fact I am all for looking at your hip xray remotely in order to decide whether you would need a TFN nail, compression screw & side plate, or bipolar replacement in the event you might require some technology as well. (beats the hell out of having to rely on someone who does not know important differences, thus making a 40 mile trek into the E.R. to look at physical copies) In fact, I was in defense of technology in that post.

My point being, is technology can wind up in the hands of someone looking to to good, or other entities who might not have your best interests at heart. (No pun intended)

For me, I accept the electric company knowing my usage. I need to pay them. Allowing certain liberties beyond that I become suspect. Control my thermostat, ah, no.

I know, I sound like a nut. I’m fine with that. Honestly.

342

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:24:50pm

Saw some footage of Muhammad Ali tonight. It’s so sad to see him. I hope he makes it through this year, but, ‘tis not a great year to be an icon.

343

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:24:59pm

re: #325 poteen

I grew up in the 60s on the Illinois river. We had fish fries every Friday.
What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

The river here in Illinois are far cleaner now. Provided you don’t do it too often, It’s even safe to eat fish caught in the Chicago River nowadays. No joking, the Chicago Tribune had some caught and tested. And yes, the reporters then cooked and ate the other fish that were caught. The were bluegills, as I remember. Some PETA asshole got pissy about it of course.

344

ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:25:20pm

Columnist Lindsay Beyerstein raises a good question, I think:

Should Tiller’s Assassin be charged as a domestic terrorist?

345

jaunte Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:25:38pm

re: #317 NelsFree

Is it true that CIT loans to lots of small businesses? I understand that Obama does not want to bail it out.

Looks like small and medium sized businesses:
[Link: blogs.wsj.com…]

346

OldLineTexan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:26:01pm

re: #341 formercorpsman

Of course. In fact I am all for looking at your hip xray remotely in order to decide whether you would need a TFN nail, compression screw & side plate, or bipolar replacement in the event you might require some technology as well. (beats the hell out of having to rely on someone who does not know important differences, thus making a 40 mile trek into the E.R. to look at physical copies) In fact, I was in defense of technology in that post.

My point being, is technology can wind up in the hands of someone looking to to good, or other entities who might not have your best interests at heart. (No pun intended)

For me, I accept the electric company knowing my usage. I need to pay them. Allowing certain liberties beyond that I become suspect. Control my thermostat, ah, no.

I know, I sound like a nut. I’m fine with that. Honestly.

But, but, but CHENEY already stole your cookie recipes off your computer! Eleventy! Hitler!

347

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:26:29pm

re: #336 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

[deleted]

what does that mean?

348

NelsFree Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:26:48pm

OOOoooh! New thread!
Upstairs, Lizardoids!

349

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:27:01pm

re: #317 NelsFree

In the quarter ended June, CIT’s loans to small businesses plunged 88 percent to $65.7 million and the company fell to 15th in the category from first a year earlier, according to the La Canada, California-based Coleman Report. CIT finances about 1 million businesses from Dunkin’ Brands Inc. to Eddie Bauer Holdings Inc.

CIT Expects Loss of $1.5 Billion, May Seek Bankruptcy

350

OldLineTexan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:27:08pm

re: #347 albusteve

what does that mean?

mom caught him cursing on the computer

351

Wendya Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:27:13pm

re: #317 NelsFree

Is it true that CIT loans to lots of small businesses? I understand that Obama does not want to bail it out.

They’re the #1 SBA lender.

I can see why Obama has no love for small business. We’re not as easy to control or influence.

352

3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:28:27pm

Apple is making money:

Apple earnings rise 15% as iPhone sales surge

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Apple Inc. on Tuesday reported a fiscal third-quarter profit that rose 15% from a year ago as the company sold 5.2 million iPhones and also recorded strong sales of its Macintosh computers and iPod media players.
Apple (AAPL 158.40, +6.89, +4.55%) said it earned $1.23 billion, or $1.35 a share, on revenue of $8.34 billion. During the same period a year ago, Apple earned $1.07 billion or $1.19 a share on $7.46 billion in sales.

The results beat the estimates of analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters, who forecast earnings of $1.17 a share on revenue of $8.16 billion.

Gross margins as a percent of revenue rose to 36.3% from 34.8% in the year-ago quarter.

And I think that was just based on the sales to my 3 daughters and their girl friends.

353

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:28:30pm

re: #344 ShanghaiEd

Columnist Lindsay Beyerstein raises a good question, I think:

Should Tiller’s Assassin be charged as a domestic terrorist?

Yes, he should be so charged. What he did was a terrorist act.

354

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:28:44pm

re: #350 OldLineTexan

mom caught him cursing on the computer

must be something like that…rape is a serious charge

355

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:30:17pm

re: #315 ShanghaiEd

Ed, I have been in medicine for quite a while now.

We agree. I don’t like the fact they mine the data. I understand why they do it, but it can also be used for purposes over and above the intended use.

You are quite right in the fact that people do not know. Nor do they care. That is too much the case now with so many instances.

Trust me. I live this everyday. People do want to be bothered. I just recently had a young man with fresh grease on his new tat, and his baby momma in attendance, complaining about the government not having universal health care.

Again, I still do not have to like the concept the ability exists for this potential. There are folks who do not have your best interests at heart.

356

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:32:42pm

re: #328 lobo91
A repost from yesterday.
The smell of books. New and old. Classics and Best Sellers. Leatherbound reference and tawdry fiction stacked floor to ceiling in a room of mahogany shelving and a roaring fireplace with one perfectly placed light over an overstuffed chair.
The door is locked and the brandy is poured.
For these non-Orwellian reasons and with some spare positive karma —-

DEATH TO KINDLE!

re: #330 OldLineTexan
We had all the industrial waste in the river for 100 miles up to Chicago.
I lived across the street from a zinc processing factory. I’m not saying it was good for anyone but thats the way it was then. Its cleaned up now and I’ve lived healthy since then. Knock on wood

357

HoosierHoops Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:33:03pm

re: #340 3 wood

I wonder if someone at Intel is naked short selling them.

LOL
AMD has always been the red headed step child for chips for years…Maybe the last 5 years they have engineered just genius ideas of fetching into the pipe.Just genius…Remember there were a few years there AMD almost kicked the crap out of Intel…But marketing..Enterprise..pricing…Sales…Won the day…Not the fastest chip..
I like the tact of AMD..They are taking no prisoners in the chip wars…If they survive.

358

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:33:31pm

re: #355 formercorpsman

My point about the patient story, is the irony of him paying for his tats, bitching about us not paying for his broken hand in a fight, and of course him caring less where any of his information might end up.

359

OldLineTexan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:33:45pm

re: #356 poteen

I’m glad you’re healthy. I am, too. But not everyone is healthier or stronger for having “survived” it.

360

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:33:50pm

re: #339 CynicalConservative

Ahhh, pulp recycling. I approve.

That be a hoot sez I.

361

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:34:06pm

re: #356 poteen

Plus 1 from me.

362

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:34:54pm

re: #358 formercorpsman

The irony was not lost on me, fwiw.

363

OldLineTexan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:34:55pm

re: #357 HoosierHoops

LOL
AMD has always been the red headed step child for chips for years…Maybe the last 5 years they have engineered just genius ideas of fetching into the pipe.Just genius…Remember there were a few years there AMD almost kicked the crap out of Intel…But marketing..Enterprise..pricing…Sales…Won the day…Not the fastest chip..
I like the tact of AMD..They are taking no prisoners in the chip wars…If they survive.

They are needed to keep Intel on its toes and out of a monopoly.

364

ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:35:02pm

re: #353 Dark_Falcon

Yes, he should be so charged. What he did was a terrorist act.

Absolutely, I agree.

365

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:35:15pm

re: #359 OldLineTexan

I’m glad you’re healthy. I am, too. But not everyone is healthier or stronger for having “survived” it.

Point taken

366

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:35:17pm

re: #357 HoosierHoops

LOL
AMD has always been the red headed step child for chips for years…Maybe the last 5 years they have engineered just genius ideas of fetching into the pipe.Just genius…Remember there were a few years there AMD almost kicked the crap out of Intel…But marketing..Enterprise..pricing…Sales…Won the day…Not the fastest chip..
I like the tact of AMD..They are taking no prisoners in the chip wars…If they survive.

Intel needs them to survive. Monopolies suck.

367

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:35:21pm

re: #358 formercorpsman

My point about the patient story, is the irony of him paying for his tats, bitching about us not paying for his broken hand in a fight, and of course him caring less where any of his information might end up.

it was not lost on me…good observation

368

lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:39:24pm

re: #367 albusteve

it was not lost on me…good observation

I wonder how many people sit in front of plasma TVs connected to satellite service and cheer when Obama makes one of his speeches about “free” health care, because they “can’t afford” insurance now?

369

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:40:21pm

re: #368 lobo91

I wonder how many people sit in front of plasma TVs connected to satellite service and cheer when Obama makes one of his speeches about “free” health care, because they “can’t afford” insurance now?

The cynic in me says “FTFF”.

370

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:41:31pm

For me, it is not so far off the map to imagine some special interest group manipulating such data in an effort to support their cause. RNC, DNC, etc. Different businesses sell this information now.

It probably occurs already for all I know.

371

HoosierHoops Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:41:52pm

re: #366 CynicalConservative

Intel needs them to survive. Monopolies suck.

I hear ya…AMD is doing well in the Enterprise Market…Alot of Blade Mfg’s are using AMD for price and power…

372

albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:42:26pm

re: #368 lobo91

I wonder how many people sit in front of plasma TVs connected to satellite service and cheer when Obama makes one of his speeches about “free” health care, because they “can’t afford” insurance now?

millions?…the whole thing is rife with fraud and deceit…people don’t give a shit about health insurance until they achieve personal responsibility or until they need it and don’t have it

373

Noam Sayin' Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:44:36pm

re: #306 MandyManners

How was the scooter ride?

Absolutely cool - 65°, moonless, and very little traffic.

Except for the bugs I ate.

374

Skyhawk07 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:45:32pm

re: #122 Charles

Phase 1: Remove content from Charles’ Kindle.
Phase 2: Replace electronic text with “approved” content.
Phase 3: Use Google spiders to search all electronic devices to “correct” all early flawed content.
“Its my job” - Winston Smith>

375

formercorpsman Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:46:06pm

Well, I have posted quite a few typos tonight. I promise to do better next time.

Have a good night folks.

376

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:47:05pm

re: #343 Dark_Falcon

Back in the sixties (early) no one knew all of the stuff they worry about now. We ate bullhead bluegill and catfish whenever we had enough for a fry
(and when Dad and his brothers scored a few cases of beer). You couldn’t see 6 inches into the grayish brown water but honestly, I don’t remember my cousins and I being sick anywhere near as much as our kids and now grandkids. I’ve lost a lot of relatives to cancer but they were all 70+.

377

ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:47:49pm

re: #356 poteen

A repost from yesterday.
The smell of books. New and old. Classics and Best Sellers. Leatherbound reference and tawdry fiction stacked floor to ceiling in a room of mahogany shelving and a roaring fireplace with one perfectly placed light over an overstuffed chair.
The door is locked and the brandy is poured.
For these non-Orwellian reasons and with some spare positive karma —-

DEATH TO KINDLE!

Hey, Poteen: Another book-smell lover, here!

Once, I was driving home after leaving the bookstore with a haul of brand-new books and just couldn’t wait any longer to sniff them.

When a red light caught me, I took the books out of the sack one by one and inhaled their goodness. (With my particular family nose, I can pick up a whole lot of goodness at once.)

Afterward, I noticed that the teenagers in the next car were staring at me with a look of befuddlement. Lord only knows what kind of perversion they thought I was up to. :)

378

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:48:17pm

re: #376 poteen

Back in the sixties (early) no one knew all of the stuff they worry about now. We ate bullhead bluegill and catfish whenever we had enough for a fry
(and when Dad and his brothers scored a few cases of beer). You couldn’t see 6 inches into the grayish brown water but honestly, I don’t remember my cousins and I being sick anywhere near as much as our kids and now grandkids. I’ve lost a lot of relatives to cancer but they were all 70+.

Sanitize everything, become succeptible to the smallest infection.

379

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:48:55pm

re: #373 Noam Sayin’

Absolutely cool - 65°, moonless, and very little traffic.

Except for the bugs I ate.

Everybody hates that!
Bug in mouth - News blooper
[worth the 40 seconds]

380

J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:49:17pm

Nite formercorpsman.
Have a good one!

381

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:50:03pm

re: #376 poteen

Back in the sixties (early) no one knew all of the stuff they worry about now. We ate bullhead bluegill and catfish whenever we had enough for a fry
(and when Dad and his brothers scored a few cases of beer). You couldn’t see 6 inches into the grayish brown water but honestly, I don’t remember my cousins and I being sick anywhere near as much as our kids and now grandkids. I’ve lost a lot of relatives to cancer but they were all 70+.

Not crazy about the former two. Catfish are good eating if prepared correctly.

382

Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:50:27pm

re: #378 CynicalConservative

Sanitize everything, become succeptible to the smallest infection.

Quite concur.

383

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:50:47pm

re: #377 ShanghaiEd

Hey, Poteen: Another book-smell lover, here!

Once, I was driving home after leaving the bookstore with a haul of brand-new books and just couldn’t wait any longer to sniff them.

When a red light caught me, I took the books out of the sack one by one and inhaled their goodness. (With my particular family nose, I can pick up a whole lot of goodness at once.)

Afterward, I noticed that the teenagers in the next car were staring at me with a look of befuddlement. Lord only knows what kind of perversion they thought I was up to. :)

That’s something I would do too. Something I can agree with you on for once. Books != Politics.

384

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:53:57pm

re: #382 Dark_Falcon

Quite concur.

Looking at how I grew up vs. the kids of my friends (full disclosure: I have no kids), I weep for the future of the species. I notice that they (the parents) get sick more often now too after using gallons of sanitizers. Anecdotal to be sure, but it’s my slice of reality.

385

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:56:36pm

re: #378 CynicalConservative

Sanitize everything, become succeptible to the smallest infection.

Exactly. My son in law makes everybody take off their shoes when they enter his house because the ‘kids play on the carpet.”
And he wonders why they are always sniffelling.
I played in the garden, in the grass, on the side walk,under the house…
you get the picture.

386

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:58:40pm

re: #381 Dark_Falcon

Not crazy about the former two. Catfish are good eating if prepared correctly.

On a charcoal grill with lots of beer.

387

CynicalConservative Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:01:14pm

re: #386 poteen

On a charcoal grill with lots of beer.

Mmmm, catfish, beer.

Must sleep. Caio all.

388

ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:01:31pm

re: #383 CynicalConservative

That’s something I would do too. Something I can agree with you on for once. Books != Politics.

Thanks, CC! If you’re a book-sniffer, you can’t be all bad… :)

389

poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:02:30pm

re: #387 CynicalConservative

re: #388 ShanghaiEd

Death to Kindle!/

390

ShanghaiEd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:12:50pm

re: #389 poteen

re: #388 ShanghaiEd

Death to Kindle!/

Y’know, the first time I picked up one of the early “electronic” book devices, I felt the same way. There was a cold, almost sinister aspect to the thing.

But something in my thought process has shifted. Now, I’d get a Kindle tomorrow if it weren’t for the price. I don’t have to get rid of my books, or quit sniffing them, or even quit buying new traditional books. Why not have the best of both worlds? I’d consider the Kindle a form of computer, like a cousin of my laptop with a more ergonomic hand grip. Just a thought.

391

meeshlr Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:02:39pm

re: #122 Charles

I seriously doubt they will use that power again. This was bad publicity for Amazon, and they don’t sell their products when people feel bad about them.

I’m glad that they’ve recognized their mistake. I hope that they won’t use that power again. What bothers me is that they can.

I’ll stick with the hard copies for now.

392

JEA62 Wed, Jul 22, 2009 5:02:28am

Can anybody who has one tell me what it’s like to read one outside? My laptop - admittedly it’s a few years old - is impossible to read outside. Anyway, I’m on the fence here. Con: You can buy a lot of books for $300. Con: I live in a rowhouse and don’t have a lot of space for the books I have now. Has anyone heard whether the price might come down for Christmas?

393

BIG Wed, Jul 22, 2009 6:04:58am

I’ve had my Kindle 2 for several months now and I love it. I did purchase and download 1984. I did notice the Kindle doing something weird a couple of days ago (this was probably the deletion of 1984), but I didn’t notice it was gone from my library until I read the thread here the other day. I wish I had backed it up to my pc before this had happened so I could tell if that copy would have also been removed. Thankfully I had finished reading it a while time ago. I haven’t checked for a refund, but I am sure that it is there. The book itself was only 99 cents. I’m not going to lose sleep over a refund.

But I do have a question for Charles. I looked at LGF on my Kindle and was wondering if you have a mobile interface URL that looks and works better on a Kindle?

394

aggieann Wed, Jul 22, 2009 6:08:34am

re: #21 Charles

So far, their e-book store is mostly composed of Google’s library of public domain titles — it doesn’t compare to Amazon’s catalog.

And everything I’ve looked up so far is more expensive than at Amazon.

re: #35 doppelganglander

It should still be in your iTunes on your computer. My daughter’s iPod was stolen and she was able to restore all of her music on the new iPod that way.

Just as all of your Amazon Kindle purchases are archived at Amazon.

re: #392 JEA62

Can anybody who has one tell me what it’s like to read one outside?

Since it’s not backlit, it won’t cause eye strain.

395

Baier Wed, Jul 22, 2009 6:30:16am

I don’t think Amazon did anything wrong. It distributed material it did not have rights to distribute and fixed the problem. Customers were refunded the money and can now buy legal copies. The more preferable action would have been to keep the consumers out of the mess but hey, no one is perfect. Even though the situation might have been handled better, I believe Amazon lived up to it’s agreements and acted responsibly.

396

KansasMom Wed, Jul 22, 2009 7:10:01am

re: #395 Baier

I don’t think Amazon did anything wrong. It distributed material it did not have rights to distribute and fixed the problem. Customers were refunded the money and can now buy legal copies. The more preferable action would have been to keep the consumers out of the mess but hey, no one is perfect. Even though the situation might have been handled better, I believe Amazon lived up to it’s agreements and acted responsibly.

Amazon certainly didn’t think through all the details and consequences of the deletion before they acted. Its not so much the deletion of the book, since money was refunded and other copies are available. Its the deletion of somebody’s notes that is troublesome to me. The notes were not part of the copyright issue and belonged to the Kindle owners. Amazon didn’t even have the courtesy to give warning so people could back up their notes.
I still love my Kindle, its just too darned handy. I sat next to a middle school librarian a couple days ago while our children were in Kindermusik. She saw my Kindle and asked so many questions I didn’t get a chance to read. She was looking into getting some for her library, she had great ideas for setting up notes and bookmarks in them for the students. Think Heart of Darkness with the Cliff’s Notes, class discussion topics, homework assignments, and dictionary all in one neat package. My kids are going to have a very different school experience than I had.

397

American Sabra Wed, Jul 22, 2009 8:49:53am

re: #341 formercorpsman

Morning formercorspman! If you’re reading here this morning (or afternoon) I’m sorry I conked out last night.

I’ve been using a PC and the internet before the World Wide Web was even created so I understand about electronic privacy and it’s absolutely a concern, but I think we’re probably more on the same page here (har har) than it appears.

Obviously technology that lets you remotely manipulate a medical device, saving both the patient and doctor time and money is terrific. In fact, they have all your personal info anyway so it’s not even really an argument, but I brought it up to make a point. Both the Kindle and this medical technology are not harvesting personal info in any kind of covert manner. It would certainly hinge on paranoia to believe they are. Unless you’re uni-bomber-esque living in a shack in the hills of Kentucky I suppose.

ShanghaiEd got it down in post #315. I don’t remember this much fuss on the Right when Bush was wiretaping phones and emails. Then it was all for the good of the State.

Satellites
GPS Tracking
Using your ATM card
Using your cell phone
Your email
Posting comments on an internet site :)

If you use any of these electronics, you really have no right to complain about this mishap by Amazon IMO.

398

Sommerfeld Wed, Jul 22, 2009 8:53:13am

re: #122 Charles

I seriously doubt they will use that power again. This was bad publicity for Amazon, and they don’t sell their products when people feel bad about them.

I believe they won’t willingly use the power again due to copyright, but now that courts (and libel plaintiffs) know they have the power, they may not have a choice.

If a libel tourist in the UK goes after them and succeeds, will they sacrifice amazon.co.uk to avoid having to use the power again?

399

NCusTranshumanist Wed, Jul 22, 2009 9:25:23am

Speaking as someone who got nailed in the death of the Rocket eBook, I give this advice.

Always, always, ALWAYS crack your digital media.

It’s the only way to keep it from being stolen. This deleting of books people have purchased is just that, stealing. Just because it’s not physical doesn’t mean it’s not yours upon purchase, unless that’s explicitly stated at point of purchase, like Napster’s subscription music.

400

Ezekiel2517 Wed, Jul 22, 2009 9:51:05am

This is the congenital flaw with electronic media, or at least with a DRM-shackled device like the Kindle.

The ones holding the other end of the chain can delete or edit the published content any time they like.

Production ~~fell sharply~~ rose by ~~20,000~~ 2,500 units in June!

401

Charles Johnson Wed, Jul 22, 2009 10:07:30am

Please note that every time you update your system software, on a Mac or a PC, you are granting the updater unrestricted access to everything on your computer. It’s a bit inconsistent to get hot and bothered about Amazon’s ability to do this with the Kindle, when companies have the same abilities to alter, delete, and steal your data from your computers, mobile phones, PDAs, etc.

The Kindle is far from unique in this respect.

It’s not in a company’s self-interest to piss off their customers; that’s what prevents abuse in this area. And Amazon seems to be very aware of this.

402

ShanghaiEd Wed, Jul 22, 2009 10:58:26am

re: #397 American Sabra

Morning formercorspman! If you’re reading here this morning (or afternoon) I’m sorry I conked out last night.

I’ve been using a PC and the internet before the World Wide Web was even created so I understand about electronic privacy and it’s absolutely a concern, but I think we’re probably more on the same page here (har har) than it appears.

Obviously technology that lets you remotely manipulate a medical device, saving both the patient and doctor time and money is terrific. In fact, they have all your personal info anyway so it’s not even really an argument, but I brought it up to make a point. Both the Kindle and this medical technology are not harvesting personal info in any kind of covert manner. It would certainly hinge on paranoia to believe they are. Unless you’re uni-bomber-esque living in a shack in the hills of Kentucky I suppose.

ShanghaiEd got it down in post #315. I don’t remember this much fuss on the Right when Bush was wiretaping phones and emails. Then it was all for the good of the State.

Satellites
GPS Tracking
Using your ATM card
Using your cell phone
Your email
Posting comments on an internet site :)

If you use any of these electronics, you really have no right to complain about this mishap by Amazon IMO.

Sabra: I agree with you completely.

One quibble, though…you mention the data-mining surveillance done by the Bush administration, in past tense. Aren’t all of those programs still going on? I haven’t heard that any of them have been discontinued. Does nobody have a problem with Obama’s minions sifting through your personal information daily? I sure do.

There’s nothing political about this, to me. Privacy is privacy, period.

403

Kobyashi Maru Wed, Jul 22, 2009 11:35:43am

Do what I do. When you’re not downloading Turn the Wireless off. It’s simple and another way to keep big brother Bezos from tracking you every second. Between cell phones, Kindles, PDA’a RFD toll collectors, government and business know everything about us, and once they plug that all into their computers can run pattern matching software so that when we deviate from our routine., we can be tracked and a note made of it…buying a gun? gotcha. Going to a liquor store? Gotcha. I don’t even give my doctor (or anybody ) my social security number like all the rest of the sheeple do, And I’m center-left, good grief!

404

American Sabra Wed, Jul 22, 2009 12:44:10pm

re: #402 ShanghaiEd

Sabra: I agree with you completely.

One quibble, though…you mention the data-mining surveillance done by the Bush administration, in past tense. Aren’t all of those programs still going on? I haven’t heard that any of them have been discontinued. Does nobody have a problem with Obama’s minions sifting through your personal information daily? I sure do.

There’s nothing political about this, to me. Privacy is privacy, period.

Yesiree. I haven’t heard anything that it’s stopped. The Left always had a problem with it and I suspect the Right does too really, if we could get past our pro-Dem or pro-Rep affiliations to actually do something about it. Write your Congressperson? What else can you do?

405

American Sabra Wed, Jul 22, 2009 12:45:22pm

re: #403 Kobyashi Maru

How do you get away with not giving your doc your SSN? Doesn’t your insurance have it anyway?

406

Ezekiel2517 Wed, Jul 22, 2009 1:44:55pm

re: #401 Charles

It’s a bit inconsistent to get hot and bothered about Amazon’s ability to do this with the Kindle, when companies have the same abilities to alter, delete, and steal your data from your computers, mobile phones, PDAs, etc.

Computers have the ability to produce hardcopy, or to store backups of data on removable media.

Are you trying to tell me that Microsoft can erase all of my DVDs?

407

Charles Johnson Wed, Jul 22, 2009 2:39:30pm

re: #406 Ezekiel2517

Computers have the ability to produce hardcopy, or to store backups of data on removable media.

Are you trying to tell me that Microsoft can erase all of my DVDs?

Sure, and you can also back up what’s on a Kindle. That doesn’t change the fact that by granting Microsoft or Apple permission to update your system software, you’re granting them unlimited access to everything on your computer. Erasing data isn’t the only thing they could do, if they wanted.

The point is that they DON’T abuse this power, because it’s not in their interest to do so. And the same applies to Amazon and the Kindle.

408

Ezekiel2517 Wed, Jul 22, 2009 4:27:21pm

It’s not that I have any particular reason to distrust Amazon or other private companies.

If the Kindle is just an entertainment medium, and enough people don’t have a problem with paying admittedly small licensing fees for most content, I have no problem with that. Nobody cares if I read Stephen King or Dean Koontz novels.

The vulnerability only becomes an issue if some government decides to outlaw printing presses in order to reduce their carbon footprint and save trees. The infrastructure already exists for them to make themselves the sole gatekeepers of information for the masses.

409

kywrite Thu, Jul 23, 2009 11:08:54am

re: #184 Ozwitch

Amazon use Kindle as a way to sell content. The device is not their main interest except as a vehicle for books.
The B&N reader, on the other hand, looks interesting. It’s made by an independent company Plastic Logic who want to sell their device and don’t appear to be interested in pushing digital content - it’s more of a way to store manuals and documents for business users who go on the road etc. with a small online capacity.

And it reads .pdfs and all common file formats and is letter-sized eg 8.5 x 11. Sounds worth a decent look.

B&N also just bought out Fictionwise, who had a decent library and delivery system if I remember right, and Plastic Logic just signed a deal this week with AT&T for wireless access similar to the Kindle/Sprint deal. Except — AT&T will be able to provide international access, addressing a problem Kindle people have been complaining about for a while.

The Plastic Logic device (not named yet) also has a color version in the works, as well as some prototypes that have a fast enough refresh to deliver animation if necessary. And the text rotates if you tilt the screen, making it easier to read newspapers. And did I mention - robust touchscreen designed, so they say, to process motion that is intuitive to the users — like natural page turning? And a virtual keyboard that’s the size of a netbook keyboard, but goes away when you don’t need it unlike the Kindle’s. It’s a killer device.

I’d say B&N is positioning themselves very nicely for an assault at the beginning of the year, when Plastic Logic is supposed to begin commercial sales. I can’t wait. That may be my upgrade from my stodgy PRS500; I’d been waiting for Amazon to address some of the problems, but I think they’re getting beat to it.

410

jantjepietje Thu, Jul 23, 2009 11:38:57am

re: #244 Charles

“E-books sold under false pretenses” is the topic of this thread. You said you were going to come up with numerous examples where this has happened. Why do I have the feeling you won’t be able to come up with any?

It was not.
If you insist on moving the goal posts then I see no no point in trying to convince you with evidence of numerous companies/third-parties deleting/altering the property of consumers without their consent . I say let the audience be the judge of our discussion themselves since you cannot be convinced.

411

jantjepietje Thu, Jul 23, 2009 11:40:07am

re: #407 Charles

Sure, and you can also back up what’s on a Kindle.

Not without breaking the law!

412

Charles Johnson Thu, Jul 23, 2009 9:41:19pm

re: #410 jantjepietje

It was not.
If you insist on moving the goal posts then I see no no point in trying to convince you with evidence of numerous companies/third-parties deleting/altering the property of consumers without their consent . I say let the audience be the judge of our discussion themselves since you cannot be convinced.

In other words, you have nothing.

413

Charles Johnson Thu, Jul 23, 2009 9:42:28pm

re: #411 jantjepietje

Not without breaking the law!

Oh, bullshit. Plug the kindle into a USB port, and it shows up as a disk on your desktop, from which you can very easily back up everything on it. It is NOT against the law to do this.

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