Not a Good Day for the GOP

PoliticsOctober 2009 • Views: 2,403

There’s very bad news for the Republican Party in a new Washington Post/ABC News poll: the GOP seems to have almost totally lost the confidence of the American public.

Republicans in Washington can barely contain their glee at the turn of President Obama’s political fortunes in the first nine months of the year but a new Washington Post/ABC News poll suggests the GOP still faces serious perception problems in the eyes of the American public.

Less than one in five voters (19 percent) expressed confidence in Republicans’ ability to make the right decisions for America’s future while a whopping 79 percent lacked that confidence.

Among independent voters, who went heavily for Obama in 2008 and congressional Democrats in 2006, the numbers for Republicans on the confidence questions were even more worse. Just 17 percent of independents expressed confidence in Republicans’ ability to make the right decision while 83 percent said they did not have that confidence.

(While Obama’s numbers on the confidence question weren’t amazing — 49 percent confident/50 percent not confident — they were far stronger than those for Republicans.)

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141 comments

Kragar Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:27:22am

Perhaps a snazzy new website would help.

Sharmuta Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:27:57am

Less than one in five voters (19 percent) expressed confidence in Republicans’ ability to make the right decisions for America’s future while a whopping 79 percent lacked that confidence.

The kookosphere's solution will be to purge more RINOs! from the party. They need to be further to the right. Idiots.

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:28:06am

They had a perfect opportunity to express a coherent message and talk of real, on-the-ground options for helping the American people in a time of economic crisis.

They pissed it away on a Nirth Certifikit and some nasty racist rhetoric.

EPIC FAIL.

Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:28:15am

Don't worry, Newt will come up with a new contract or something and save us!
//

Cato the Elder Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:29:52am

Sarah Palin will rescue them with her incisive wit and sensible rhetoric!

Kragar Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:29:56am

OH OH, I know. Maybe they could embrace the most radical religious zealots which will alienate the independents! Thats sure to draw in the big crowds and promote voter confidence.

Kragar Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:31:15am

re: #5 Cato the Elder

Sarah Palin will rescue them with her incisive wit and sensible rhetoric!

Between her and Glenn Beck and Rush, I'm sure the big GOP comeback is just around the corner.

abbyadams Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:32:19am

Well, Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, as they say...

brennant Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:32:21am

Newt wasn't any better talking on the Today Show this a.m... He just rambled on about how this admin are a bunch of liars. When pressed for pub solution to health care, we glossed over it, and went back to bashing.

In absence of real (any) leadership, the nutosphere has full control of the party.

Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:33:03am

Luap Nor, Newt, Buchanan, and Alex Jones are working hard behind the scenes with the Discovery Institute to work out the perfect plan with Huckabee. We are saved.
/

abbyadams Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:33:49am

re: #9 brennant

EXACTLY. Where are their ideas? If they do have any, they're lost in the white noise of all the bashing.

Guanxi88 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:33:51am

Given that the GOP appears to be bound for obscurity, does anyone here think that they'll stop being blamed for all the problems in this country. I'm thinking in particular of the "obstructionist GOP" in the Congress - the Dem's have all the votes they need without having to cross the aisle. So why don't they just do it already?

Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:34:52am

Not only are the commenters at Hot Air turning on Allahpundit -- this thread is full of neo-Confederates bashing Abraham Lincoln and calling the civil war "unnecessary."

[Link: hotair.com...]

Wow. Hot Air's comments are becoming almost indistinguishable from Stormfront.

jaunte Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:34:57am

Blame it on the Fed. It must be their fault.

bosforus Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:35:16am

Ah, politics. To be the least least liked truly is an honor.
/

abbyadams Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:35:23am

re: #12 Guanxi88

Blue dogs.

brennant Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:35:56am

re: #11 abbyadams

Yep. Though the dems are no better...

Still good ol' Matt Lauer asked the question of a solution, and it was basically ignored by Newt.

SixDegrees Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:36:06am

I won't be getting my hopes up, but perhaps this will serve as a wake-up call: quit pandering to the lunatics and start conducting yourselves with decorum.

In other news, I've got a really great feeling that this new set of lottery numbers is gonna be a winna!

brennant Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:36:38am

re: #13 Charles

Good Lord.

SeaMonkey Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:36:39am

re: #16 abbyadams

Blue dogs.

Right. Dems aren't in lockstep. And Obama is waiting for... ever.

Kragar Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:37:09am

re: #13 Charles

Not only are the commenters at Hot Air turning on Allahpundit -- this thread is full of neo-Confederates bashing Abraham Lincoln and calling the civil war "unnecessary."

[Link: hotair.com...]

Wow. Hot Air's comments are becoming almost indistinguishable from Stormfront.

I love how they're on his blog and the commenters are saying just ignore him.

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:37:28am

re: #13 Charles

The vicious mood swings of the nutjobs are a prime indication of genuine mental dysfunction.

boyo Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:37:32am

re: #3 thedopefishlives

They had a perfect opportunity to express a coherent message and talk of real, on-the-ground options for helping the American people in a time of economic crisis.

They pissed it away on a Nirth Certifikit and some nasty racist rhetoric.

EPIC FAIL.

the opportunity was there but who on the republican side had this coherent message?

Guanxi88 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:38:01am

re: #16 abbyadams

Blue dogs.

Hardly the fault of the GOP.

Dreader1962 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:38:04am

"...confidence questions were even more worse."

Who wrote this? Horrible grammar.

lawhawk Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:38:27am

Meanwhile, it's not like the Democrats are doing all that well either. They can't get their act together - controlling both the House and Senate and still incapable of putting together a coherent and balanced health care plan, or one that seeks victory in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The problem is that the GOP is doing marginally worse than the Democrats, which is plenty bad.

Here's the breakout from the actual data:

How much confidence do you have in [ITEM] to make the right decisions for the country's future - a great deal of confidence, a good amount, just some or none at all?
10/18/09 - Summary Table

-Grt deal/Good amt- --- Some/None ---
Great Good Just None No
NET deal amt NET some at all opinion
a. Obama 49 29 20 50 27 24 *
b. The Republicans
in Congress 19 4 15 79 46 33 2
c. The Democrats
in Congress 34 12 23 64 37 27 2

34% of those polled think the Democrats in Congress have a better plan. And if you look down at the cross tabs on who was polled, you'll find that the split was 33/20/42 D/R/I, which is a lower percentage of R than in prior periods, where the number of R participating (self-identifying), was mid 20s.

That suggests either that the polling was skewed, or that the number of self-identifying R is down.

In sum, this isn't good news for the GOP, but it isn't great news for the Democrats either. It's just that the GOP is in worse shape.

abbyadams Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:38:39am

re: #13 Charles

So Lincoln's not even close to a FF, huh? Wow, do these people even have basic cable so they can watch the History Channel? Or, say, a library card? The Founders were not demigods, nor were they perfect. (See Jefferson.) They didn't know what they were doing half the time, and fought like cats and dogs the other half. They were brilliant, flawed, men.

Kragar Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:38:41am

re: #23 boyo

the opportunity was there but who on the republican side had this coherent message?

Romney, but he was unelectable, dontcha know?

dean_k Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:39:12am

This whole situation is mirroring the British Conservative Party after the New Labour 1997 landslide. The aging, socially-conservative base pushed them further to the right, concentrating on issues like immigration which meant nothing to the average voter, leading to predictable loses in the following two general elections. But at least the base was happy.

duck of peace Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:39:17am

Would it not be the perfect time for the GOP to be reasonable, understandable, and optimistic? Why thats just silly! Lets make friends with the Birthers, Truthers, Racists, Crazies, and Wackoes instead. yeah, thats the ticket...

Only good thing about this is the declared 'Independent' roster swells once again as reasonable people in the middle flee the crazies on either side.

abbyadams Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:40:48am

re: #24 Guanxi88

Nope, not the fault of the GOP at all. Problems with the "big tent" philosophy is that you're not gonna please everyone, and so there's always a faction of people who are ready to take their toys and go home. There is certainly no unanimous support of the president on the D side of the aisle (or from their voters.)

boyo Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:40:49am

re: #28 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Romney, but he was unelectable, dontcha know?

what exactly makes him unelectable? is it because hes a Mormon? and if thats is the case why does this make him unelectable?

lawhawk Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:40:50am

re: #22 thedopefishlives

It's what happens when you let those initial comments stand, and don't start cleaning house when they crop up. It meant taking a stand months ago against the crap; now it would mean a serious (and wholly necessary) purging of those posters who spew that kind of venom.

Dreader1962 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:40:58am

I am glad to see this reportage, though. I think that the right-wing has been wallowing in their echo chamber for too long and the GOP has been paralyzed while watching the mess. If they intend to be viable for 2010, they need to coalesce a set of policies that have wide appeal.

Honorary Yooper Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:42:26am

re: #21 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I love how they're on his blog and the commenters are saying just ignore him.

It does bear watching what AP will do. He could get fed up enough to walk away (I hope so). Granted, it is a carnival side show, but an interesting one at that. HA has attracted a lot of the nuts (some of whom used to post here till their banning) who think they own the blog, and to some extent, they do. They've been pandered to and attracted until they, like a disease, reached critical mass. I've no idea how much Ed or AP have control over there, but they did play a role in letting the nuts in, and they did play a role in pandering to them. Now let's see what happens next. Popcorn, anyone?

iceman1960 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:42:46am

Hmmm I wonder how that poll was weighted?
Just saying.

Guanxi88 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:42:55am

re: #34 Dreader1962

If they intend to be viable for 2010, they need to coalesce a set of policies that have wide appeal.

I don't think they need any such thing. All they need is a telegenic spokesman, willing and compliant national media, and a vague but friendly "theme."

The Sanity Inspector Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:43:03am

Ordinarily I'd chalk up a poll like this to the MSM campaigning for "their" side. But there does seem to be some bad juju in the air these days. Somebody in the Republican party needs to break into the pilot house and grab the wheel.

(I denounce myself in advance for saying "juju".)

Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:43:05am

re: #33 lawhawk

It's what happens when you let those initial comments stand, and don't start cleaning house when they crop up. It meant taking a stand months ago against the crap; now it would mean a serious (and wholly necessary) purging of those posters who spew that kind of venom.

And this is why I continue to visit here, long after I've dropped HotAir, Michelle, Jawas, and Spencer from my daily reading list. Charles takes great care to ensure that commenters who make a habit of fouling his blog with filth are removed, along with their comments.

fizzlogic Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:43:20am

re: #12 Guanxi88

The Dems seem spooked from passed experience. They haven't quite realized how much a majority of the voting public hate the RW. On healthcare the Dems should let the GOP filibuster. Let them play obstructionists with speech after speech from the floor of the Senate--nothing could endear the GOP more. heh

Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:43:48am

Put Michael Steele in a large, shiny balloon.

lawhawk Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:43:56am

Part of the problem for the GOP is two-fold: a lack of message and a lack of a messenger who can appeal not only to the right but to the center.

They need to have an uplifting and coherent message of strong national defense and responsible fiscal policy - both of which is sorely lacking with the current Administration.

Thus far, no one in the GOP is taking on that mantle, let alone showing the kind of leadership necessary to bring the GOP out of the wilderness.

Guanxi88 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:44:55am

re: #40 trendsurfer

The Dems seem spooked from passed experience. They haven't quite realized how much a majority of the voting public hate the RW. On healthcare the Dems should let the GOP filibuster. Let them play obstructionists with speech after speech from the floor of the Senate--nothing could endear the GOP more. heh

Brutalized, are they, but the experience of single-party rule under the Republicans? Don't buy it for a minute. They won't do this on their own hook because they suspect that this thing could go very badly for them, and they don't want to be the only ones around to blame when it happens.

Dreader1962 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:45:41am

re: #37 Guanxi88

I don't think they need any such thing. All they need is a telegenic spokesman, willing and compliant national media, and a vague but friendly "theme."

You forgot the sarc tag. Or maybe you're thinking of Palin?

Since 2010 is a year for congressional elections, they need to have a Party message as a national strategy. Locally, I assume that each candidate knows their constituency.

Bagua Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:46:52am

re: #39 thedopefishlives

And this is why I continue to visit here, long after I've dropped HotAir, Michelle, Jawas, and Spencer from my daily reading list. Charles takes great care to ensure that commenters who make a habit of fouling his blog with filth are removed, along with their comments.

Never had a one of those on my daily reading list, or even monthly for that matter.

The Sanity Inspector Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:46:56am

re: #27 abbyadams

So Lincoln's not even close to a FF, huh? Wow, do these people even have basic cable so they can watch the History Channel? Or, say, a library card? The Founders were not demigods, nor were they perfect. (See Jefferson.) They didn't know what they were doing half the time, and fought like cats and dogs the other half. They were brilliant, flawed, men.

They built better than they knew.

Guanxi88 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:47:13am

re: #44 Dreader1962

You forgot the sarc tag. Or maybe you're thinking of Palin?

You forgot the third possibility - Both.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:47:43am

re: #40 trendsurfer

The Dems seem spooked from passed experience. They haven't quite realized how much a majority of the voting public hate the RW. On healthcare the Dems should let the GOP filibuster. Let them play obstructionists with speech after speech from the floor of the Senate--nothing could endear the GOP more. heh

Have you read any of the versions of the health care proposals that are available, including the new one yesterday?

Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:50:00am

I don't care about Nirthers, abortions, gays married or in / out of the military...those are issues that have zero relevance in my life and should have zero relevance to government.

Give me a party of 'small government', low taxes, and strong military and stay out of my life...you have my vote... it really isn't that hard...is it...?

Killgore Trout Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:50:52am

Steele refuses to distance himself from Glenn Beck’s ‘racist’ attack on Obama.

Youtube Video

(in Spanish for some reason)

RAMOS: For instance, when you hear commentators like Glenn Beck saying that for him President Barack Obama is a racist, with a deep seeded hatred for white people, how do you react?
STEELE: That’s one man’s opinion.

RAMOS: Yes, but…

STEELE: That’s one man’s opinion.

RAMOS: But should you defend Barack Obama against these types of comments? I don’t know, it’s just a question.

STEELE: No, no, look the reality of it is when I ran for the United States’ Senate and I was called an Uncle Tom by leading Democrats in the country, when I was called a slave by Steny Hoyer who is now the majority leader in the House no one came running to my defense and no one seemed to think that that was racists at the time.

iceman1960 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:51:02am

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Have you read any of the versions of the health care proposals that are available, including the new one yesterday?

I spent 30 minutes reading it so far and haven't made it through the table of contents.
This POS will be 20,000 pages by the time they get done putting things back in it.

soundboard fez Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:51:26am

The problem here is that the GOP has allowed the "conservative" and even "Republican" message to be carried by and associated with pundits spewing nothing but paranoia, conspiracies, and anger.

For all the lip service they pay to Reagan, he came into office at a time of great economic and international turmoil, bringing a message of optimism and love for America.

I don't see the GOP returning to power on a wave of fear of FEMA camps, sterilization-by-vaccine, and a communist in every closet. Tossing out red meat to the rabid 5% base is proving great for the pundits' bank accounts, but any legitimate political strategy is going to get drowned. :(

UberNerd Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:51:31am

Not related to this topic, but probably will be it's own soon...

Geert Wilders to speak at Temple University, Arizona.

[Link: cbs3.com...]

BarackObama Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:51:56am

re: #38 The Sanity Inspector

Totally agree! I'd ding you up if I could!

But who? I just dont see any real leadership coming out of the GOP right now. No leadership, no unity. No unity, no message. No message, no votes.

iceman1960 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:52:18am

re: #49 Oh no...Sand People!

I don't care about Nirthers, abortions, gays married or in / out of the military...those are issues that have zero relevance in my life and should have zero relevance to government.

Give me a party of 'small government', low taxes, and strong military and stay out of my life...you have my vote... it really isn't that hard...is it...?

Amen to that!

UberNerd Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:52:30am

eeek...wrong link...here we go...

[Link: cbs3.com...]

bosforus Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:52:32am

re: #53 UberNerd

That article's about PA unemployment.

UberNerd Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:53:16am

re: #57

Check number 56

That's Glenn Beck to you Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:53:30am

Clearly this is a sign of the end times.

What else do you people need as evidence?

Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Republican party except for the RINOs and the failure to embrace the Gold Standard. And then there is the whole failure to support restoration of stoning as a punishment for adultery. And then the whole failure to nominate Ron Paul in 2008.

OK - I guess I don't support the GOP either. But that isn't the point.

The point is that the end times are near.

And if you need any more proof, I am at an ENT doctor today because one of my tear ducts is blocked. If that isn't God telling us that even MY career is now under threat then I don't know what is.

Velvet Elvis Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:53:37am

"re: #41 Decatur Deb

Put Michael Steele in a large, shiny balloon.

Or a blimp, a la Ron Paul. That worked out real well for him.

winemaker Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:53:46am

Charles,

Rasmussen's daily presidential poll has Obama at -12, more or less where it has been each day for a while.

This ABC/ WAPO poll has Obama at +17.

Charles, that's a 29-point gap.

If these polls were public companies, the SEC would be knocking on their doors to investigate the obvious fraud by one, or both.

You brand is that of a scientific skeptic...yet you pass along this +17 poll without examining it? (Or Rasmussen, for that matter).

C'mon, 29 points... one (or both) of these is a FauxPoll... or a Burkett TANG memo.

You are supposed to be one of the guys who has the chops to spot these frauds. "If not Charles, then who?"

-winemaker/bummerdietz

SeaMonkey Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:54:04am

re: #49 Oh no...Sand People!

I don't care about Nirthers, abortions, gays married or in / out of the military...those are issues that have zero relevance in my life and should have zero relevance to government.

Give me a party of 'small government', low taxes, and strong military and stay out of my life...you have my vote... it really isn't that hard...is it...?

Strong militaries and the foreign wars we use them for cost money.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:54:36am

re: #51 iceman1960

I spent 30 minutes reading it so far and haven't made it through the table of contents.
This POS will be 20,000 pages by the time they get done putting things back in it.

I just started reviewing it today, it's a monster.

avanti Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:54:39am

re: #13 Charles

Not only are the commenters at Hot Air turning on Allahpundit -- this thread is full of neo-Confederates bashing Abraham Lincoln and calling the civil war "unnecessary."

[Link: hotair.com...]

Wow. Hot Air's comments are becoming almost indistinguishable from Stormfront.

I know you have real, understandable differences with
Allahpundit, but I've noticed he has tried on occasion to herd his cats away from the fringe, and gets hell for it.

harrylook Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:55:09am

At some point, does the GOP actually do something about these numbers?? What are they thinking, if anything...

webevintage Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:55:13am

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

Have you read any of the versions of the health care proposals that are available, including the new one yesterday?

It's a behemoth.
But none of it means anything until the House and Senate bills are merged and scored by the CBO.

iceman1960 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:55:41am

re: #61 winemaker

Charles,

Rasmussen's daily presidential poll has Obama at -12, more or less where it has been each day for a while.

This ABC/ WAPO poll has Obama at +17.

Charles, that's a 29-point gap.

If these polls were public companies, the SEC would be knocking on their doors to investigate the obvious fraud by one, or both.

You brand is that of a scientific skeptic...yet you pass along this +17 poll without examining it? (Or Rasmussen, for that matter).

C'mon, 29 points... one (or both) of these is a FauxPoll... or a Burkett TANG memo.

You are supposed to be one of the guys who has the chops to spot these frauds. "If not Charles, then who?"

-winemaker/bummerdietz

I'm still wondering how it was weighted. 20% repub?

Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:55:59am

re: #62 SeaMonkey

Strong militaries and the foreign wars we use them for cost money.

Money I would gladly pilfer from our donations to the U.N., N.E.A., and various other B.S. programs that shouldn't exist... But that's just me...

BarackObama Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:56:15am

re: #62 SeaMonkey

Are a strong military and a smaller, more focused government mutually exclusive?

wrenchwench Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:56:52am

re: #58 UberNerd

re: #57

Check number 56

Still doesn't say Arizona.

Kragar Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:56:59am

re: #32 boyo

what exactly makes him unelectable? is it because hes a Mormon? and if thats is the case why does this make him unelectable?

That was basically the gist of many of the attacks on him. How can good christians in the GOP trust a crazy Mormon?

That's Glenn Beck to you Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:57:49am

re: #61 winemaker

Charles,

Rasmussen's daily presidential poll has Obama at -12, more or less where it has been each day for a while.

This ABC/ WAPO poll has Obama at +17.

Charles, that's a 29-point gap.

If these polls were public companies, the SEC would be knocking on their doors to investigate the obvious fraud by one, or both.

You brand is that of a scientific skeptic...yet you pass along this +17 poll without examining it? (Or Rasmussen, for that matter).

C'mon, 29 points... one (or both) of these is a FauxPoll... or a Burkett TANG memo.

You are supposed to be one of the guys who has the chops to spot these frauds. "If not Charles, then who?"

-winemaker/bummerdietz

I agree.

I'd like to see the cross tabs for that survey. They need to break out these surveys for which respondents have fluoride in their water supply and which don't. THAT would probably explain the discrepancy.

boyo Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:58:34am

glenn beck parody guy in this thread is funny

baier Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:58:49am

re: #61 winemaker

Check out the methodology behind these two polls and I think you may find out why the number are different.

Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:58:51am

re: #32 boyo

what exactly makes him unelectable? is it because hes a Mormon? and if thats is the case why does this make him unelectable?

Losing customers is bad for business... and judging by the birthers, Young Earthers, and the D.I...business is good...

avanti Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:59:20am

re: #61 winemaker

Charles,

Rasmussen's daily presidential poll has Obama at -12, more or less where it has been each day for a while.

This ABC/ WAPO poll has Obama at +17.

Charles, that's a 29-point gap.

If these polls were public companies, the SEC would be knocking on their doors to investigate the obvious fraud by one, or both.

You brand is that of a scientific skeptic...yet you pass along this +17 poll without examining it? (Or Rasmussen, for that matter).

C'mon, 29 points... one (or both) of these is a FauxPoll... or a Burkett TANG memo.

You are supposed to be one of the guys who has the chops to spot these frauds. "If not Charles, then who?"

-winemaker/bummerdietz

Rasmussen is a outer among all the polls, they use a different methodology then any of the other polls. They still show a steady, flat trend for Obama for a few months, just 5-7 points lower than any other pollster.

Rasmussen.

sergeant major Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:59:54am

To be honest I'm not impressed with either party. Lately I've seen many examples of the extreme right wing (and they are EXTREME) however, there are just as many on the left.

lawhawk Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:00:07am

re: #61 winemaker

Actually, the cross tabs show clearly where these numbers are coming from. They show the D/R/I split as being 33/20/42, which is a far lower showing of self-selecting GOPers than in other polls conducted by WaPo/ABC. Increasing the percentage of GOPers would bring the question of which party will make better decisions for the future of the country in line - an abysmal percentage at that. Bear in mind that Obama barely rates a passing grade.

In the poll, everyone fails. The GOP just fails even more miserably than everyone else.

What that says is that the nation is in a foul mood and Congress and the President aren't realizing the mess we're in. There's a serious disconnect.

UberNerd Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:00:22am

re: #69 BarackObama

We spend more on social security (EXCLUDING medicaid, Welfare, etc) than we do on Defense.

In terms of ratio, we're already spending more at home than abroad.

In terms of effectiveness of that spending at home versus abroad, we kinda suck.

I think "Focus" is the key factor. Besides, the phrase "Provide for the common defense" springs to mind in regards to priority of spending.

The Sanity Inspector Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:00:28am

re: #51 iceman1960

I spent 30 minutes reading it so far and haven't made it through the table of contents.
This POS will be 20,000 pages by the time they get done putting things back in it.

It's possible you've read more than your congresscritter did.

Sharmuta Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:00:42am

re: #59 That's Glenn Beck to you

Clearly this is a sign of the end times.

What else do you people need as evidence?

Because there is absolutely nothing wrong with the Republican party except for the RINOs and the failure to embrace the Gold Standard. And then there is the whole failure to support restoration of stoning as a punishment for adultery. And then the whole failure to nominate Ron Paul in 2008.

OK - I guess I don't support the GOP either. But that isn't the point.

The point is that the end times are near.

And if you need any more proof, I am at an ENT doctor today because one of my tear ducts is blocked. If that isn't God telling us that even MY career is now under threat then I don't know what is.

Exactly! We need to crank up the amp to 11!

/kookosphere

Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:00:54am

re: #67 iceman1960

I'm still wondering how it was weighted. 20% repub?

Nate Silver at 538 has looked at Rasmussen. They are stuck on a
weighting of "Likely Voter" that needs updating. RCP poll of polls
always shows them seriously out of line with a catch sample of other
outfits.

Ray in TX Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:01:12am

Game Show Host: "Today's edition of the Family Feud pits a family of Democrats against a family of Republicans. Let's get to the feud!"

"Name the Top 5 Answers from Republicans in our audience to the question, "What should the Republican Party do to win back public support?"

First contestant to hit the buzzer (from the Democratic family): "Pass public health care reform?"

Host: "Survey says..." BUZZZ

Other contestant (from the Republican family): "Lower Taxes?"

Host: "Survey says..." DING!DING!DING! "42 respondents said Lower Taxes. Let's go to the Republican family!"

Family member: "Prayer in Public Schools?"
(family cheers: "good answer! good answer!")

Host: "More prayer in public schools... survey says..." DING!DING!DING! "12 respondents said school prayer"

Family member: "Outlaw abortion?"
(family cheers: "good answer!!!")

Host: "Outlaw abortion.. survey says... " DING!DING!DING! "23 recommended criminalizing abortion"

Family member: "Build a wall on the Mexican border?"
(family murmurs...)

Host: "Build a wall to keep out the immigrants..."
DING!DING!DING! "7 answered to end immigration"

Host: "We have one answer left. If you guess it correctly, you will sweep the board and go home with $5000 plus a series of guest host spots on the Fox News Channel. The for prize, according to our conservative audience, what should the Republican Party do to win back public support?"

Family member: "Throw the liberals out of the party?"

Host: "Throw out the liberals... " DING!DING!DING! "15 said Become more Conservative, and you win your $5000 plus your guest spots on Fox News. Congratulations!"

"For the Democratic family, you will have to settle for our consolation prize.. four more years of controlling the Congress and the Presidency, along with 3 bonus Supreme Court picks"

watching you tiny alien kittens are Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:01:48am

OT: Heh, I got the car serviced this morning and spent three hours in the service waiting room. This as everyone knows is tedious enough but this trip had an added element of torture. The television in the waiting area is set up to only play Fox News Channel, seriously, it is the only channel. Three hours of sitting there trying to read months old magazines while having verbal acid dripped into your head the whole time...arrggh!

I did go and complain to the dealerships general manager who swore to me with a straight face that no one else had ever complained before. Somehow I find that kinda hard to believe, but whatever, I think maybe I will be going to a different service center next time.

SeaMonkey Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:03:31am

re: #69 BarackObama

Are a strong military and a smaller, more focused government mutually exclusive?

Depends what you mean by more focused. A huge portion of our budget is spent on defense. Foreign wars breed bureaucracy and budget overruns ("emergency spending.") Does a strong military have to be large?

kirkspencer Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:03:37am

re: #18 SixDegrees

I won't be getting my hopes up, but perhaps this will serve as a wake-up call: quit pandering to the lunatics and start conducting yourselves with decorum.

Unlikely. The problem with the generic poll is that the politicians aren't elected on the generic but by the local voters.

Thus McKinney and Bachmann get re-elected even after spewing the crazy. In large part it's, "Yeah, they're crazy, but they're OUR crazy." As in, there's a concentration of people who think the crazy is somewhere else. "I'm sane, those who think like me are probably sane, and it's the rest of the world that is crazy," is a pretty universal belief.

So no, I think we'll see a lot of Republicans re-elected. In fact I'm guessing we'll see them pick up as many as 20 seats in the house (that could change over the upcoming year but it's my current guess).

That, despite only 20% of the people trusting Republicans.

avanti Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:04:37am

re: #82 Decatur Deb

Nate Silver at 538 has looked at Rasmussen. They are stuck on a
weighting of "Likely Voter" that needs updating. RCP poll of polls
always shows them seriously out of line with a catch sample of other
outfits.

Yep, not only likely voter polling, but they weigh more heavily for Republicans. By doing so, they keep their job at Fox news as the go-to GOP poll. Last election, they only corrected their polling a day or two before the election to save face after show McCain drawing near even the first of Nov.

Walter L. Newton Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:05:15am

re: #66 webevintage

It's a behemoth.
But none of it means anything until the House and Senate bills are merged and scored by the CBO.

And will they be available to the public before any votes. I want to analyze this as I did HR 3200, but I don't want to waste my time with 1500 pages if this is going to change soon.

Honorary Yooper Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:05:51am

re: #64 avanti

I know you have real, understandable differences with
Allahpundit, but I've noticed he has tried on occasion to herd his cats away from the fringe, and gets hell for it.

It's like watching a train wreck about to happen. Some of the comments I've seen directed at AP would've been deleted here.

Examples:

Just what side are you on Allahpundit?…you seem more inclined to support the Maoist than Beck! Have you fallen on your head or something?

FloridaMike on October 19, 2009 at 10:23 PM

A short bit later in the thread,

You know, Allah, you’re veering way off course. An occasional “devil’s advocate” when it is called for is fine, but now all it is…is schtick.

Grow up.

Saltysam on October 19, 2009 at 10:28 PM

Then there are the insults.

In his dreams. Allah makes Shep look like Pat Buchanan.

rinohumper on October 19, 2009 at 10:45 PM

A bit telling about the typical HA commentor, IMHO.

Then this guy seems to be a banned commentor from here,

I see that HA now has Charles Johnson lite. Way to go guys.

TimothyJ on October 20, 2009 at 11:26 AM

Only one person on that thread stood up for AP, someone called Decider. That thread reminds me of why Charles deletes comments like the above and bans the commentors. Again, watching the stuff at HA is like watching a train wreck about to happen. You want to turn away, but you cannot.

webevintage Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:06:41am

re: #84 ausador

I did go and complain to the dealerships general manager who swore to me with a straight face that no one else had ever complained before. Somehow I find that kinda hard to believe, but whatever, I think maybe I will be going to a different service center next time.

And if you do, make sure you let the dealership know why you are not returning. I've taken to asking that they turn the TV off at my Doctors/Dentists office if no one else in the waiting room cares. I refuse to sit for 30 min or so listening to crap being spewed at me.
The problem is that some businesses have a package where FOX is the only news channel they have. That is why when you travel you might only have FOX on the channel lineup.

SixDegrees Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:07:39am

re: #86 kirkspencer

Certainly possible. The party out of power nearly always picks up seats in the midterms.

The problem with this is having the lunatic fringe seize onto it and claim that their tinfoil-hat ideas are working, giving them more power to select the next Presidential candidate - and crash and burn miserably in 2012, locking in the Dems for at least a another four years. The current leadership vacuum in the GOP makes it even more likely that the void may be filled with some Bircher-type fruitcake.

webevintage Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:08:10am

re: #88 Walter L. Newton

And will they be available to the public before any votes. I want to analyze this as I did HR 3200, but I don't want to waste my time with 1500 pages if this is going to change soon.

I think so...but who knows?
But it does seem like a waste of time to read this on if in the end it will not be the final bill.

Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:11:26am

re: #60 Conservative Moonbat

"

Or a blimp, a la Ron Paul. That worked out real well for him.

Missed the whole Ron Paul/Blimp theme. Perhaps I should pay more
attention...

Nah.

JustMyView Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:12:18am

re: #67 iceman1960

I'm still wondering how it was weighted. 20% repub?

The poll was based on a random sample of adults. So, what you have is, within that random sample, which should be representative of all Americans, 20% identified themselves as Republicans.

If you follow the Charles's link, you can read all about the results and also see also see all the questions that were asked and the raw results.

kirkspencer Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:14:00am

re: #79 UberNerd

We spend more on social security (EXCLUDING medicaid, Welfare, etc) than we do on Defense.

In terms of ratio, we're already spending more at home than abroad.

In terms of effectiveness of that spending at home versus abroad, we kinda suck.

I think "Focus" is the key factor. Besides, the phrase "Provide for the common defense" springs to mind in regards to priority of spending.

re spending more on social security vs defense, a quibble. We budget more for social security than we do for the Department of Defense - $695 Billion to $663.7 Billion, respectively, for 2010. Add the various defense expenditures in other agencies (such as nuclear arms in Department of Energy) and it begins to match the SS, Medicare, etc expenditures even closer.

THAT SAID, there are more clauses that should spring to mind in regards to priority of spending. Things like, "establish justice," "insure domestic tranquility," "promote the general welfare," and "secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity" are of pretty much equal importance.

My opinion, of course.

That's Glenn Beck to you Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:14:19am

re: #81 Sharmuta

Exactly! We need to crank up the amp to 11!

/kookosphere

Well how about that?

Here I am trying to "upding" your sensible observation and I can't.

I don't have 50 posts yet.

But as luck would have it, that made me feel profound self pity and I gurst out weeping.

My tear ducts are unblocked. All while in the waiting room at the ENT.

Thanks Charles!

BarackObama Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:16:47am

re: #85 SeaMonkey

more focused = shifting towards the scope of the federal government as defined in the Constitution.

winemaker Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:17:23am

re: #72 That's Glenn Beck to you

I can understand a swing of a few points based upon weighting, etc...but the swing is 29 points.

29 points ?

Approx a 53/39 D/R ratio in the WAPO poll.
Does Rasmussen's likely voter weighting adjust that to 38/53?

Etc.

I understood that Rasmussen's polls have been closer to actual election results than other polls. Is that correct?

BarackObama Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:17:44am

re: #96 That's Glenn Beck to you

Is Glenn Beck the new Tammy Fae Baker?

100

bratwurst Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:18:32am

re: #32 boyo

what exactly makes him unelectable? is it because hes a Mormon? and if thats is the case why does this make him unelectable?

Getting him through an Evangelical Christian minefield in the primaries would be a major challenge. Showing up at every "Value Voters" summit for the next 3 years is not going to do much to change that.

101

avanti Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:20:01am

re: #98 winemaker

I can understand a swing of a few points based upon weighting, etc...but the swing is 29 points.

29 points ?

Approx a 53/39 D/R ratio in the WAPO poll.
Does Rasmussen's likely voter weighting adjust that to 38/53?

Etc.

I understood that Rasmussen's polls have been closer to actual election results than other polls. Is that correct?

They were close at the very end, but way off even a week before when they were getting the McCain voters excited with polling showing him near even.

102

StillAMarine Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:20:25am

And the Republicans will continue to slide until they expunge the birthers and creationists from their realm of ideas. However I am afraid Sharmuta is correct in #2, stating that the Republican reaction will likely to purge all the RINO's from the party, thus leaving only the wingnut right. Their creationist anti-science loon for a presidential candidate will then lose the election in 2012, precipitaing another kleptocratic democrat left wing government for another 4 years.

103

avanti Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:21:13am

re: #91 SixDegrees

Certainly possible. The party out of power nearly always picks up seats in the midterms.

The problem with this is having the lunatic fringe seize onto it and claim that their tinfoil-hat ideas are working, giving them more power to select the next Presidential candidate - and crash and burn miserably in 2012, locking in the Dems for at least a another four years. The current leadership vacuum in the GOP makes it even more likely that the void may be filled with some Bircher-type fruitcake.

Nate Silver looks at 2112.

link.

104

Decatur Deb Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:22:56am

re: #98 winemaker

I understood that Rasmussen's polls have been closer to actual election results than other polls. Is that correct?

What Avanti said. It made them look not only wrong, but manipulated.

105

SeaMonkey Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:33:11am

re: #102 StillAMarine

And the Republicans will continue to slide until they expunge the birthers and creationists from their realm of ideas. However I am afraid Sharmuta is correct in #2, stating that the Republican reaction will likely to purge all the RINO's from the party, thus leaving only the wingnut right. Their creationist anti-science loon for a presidential candidate will then lose the election in 2012, precipitaing another kleptocratic democrat left wing government for another 4 years.

Kleptocratic? have your taxes gone up? Burma and many African dictatorships are real kleptocracies, the worst governments on earth.

106

bornamerican Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:35:58am

I wonder if "birther, racist, creationist, anti science" control of the Republican party is truly valid. I mean that just because you make the most noise (an opinion) doesn't mean that you represent everyone. I certainly would never assume that all Democratic party members are communists or want a one world government. Bottom Line, lets see what 2010 brings for both parties.

107

idioma Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:36:48am

Among independent voters, who went heavily for Obama in 2008 and congressional Democrats in 2006, the numbers for Republicans on the confidence questions were even ~~more~~ worse.

There, now it's more better!

108

CommonCents Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:42:55am

re: #85 SeaMonkey

Depends what you mean by more focused. A huge portion of our budget is spent on defense. Foreign wars breed bureaucracy and budget overruns ("emergency spending.") Does a strong military have to be large?

U.S. Defense Spending to % of Outlays

We are near a historic low in defense spending versus total government spending.

109

Ojoe Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:43:16am

If you can't stand where the GOP is going, please check out the Modern Whig Party.
Modern Whig Party Homepage.
Short video about the Whigs.

110

UberNerd Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:44:07am

re: #95 kirkspencer

I agree that they are all worthy causes, but not entirely on priority. If we're looking at the preamble as a source of priority, then take them in order. Make sure we have a just legal system, make sure we aren't all trying to kill each other, make sure other countries aren't going to kill us, try to keep us from falling into squalor, and make sure we're as free as we can be.

I'm just of a mind that it's "promote the general welfare" not "provide the general welfare."

Again...it's all about focusing on the problem and fixing the problem...and not trying to halfass fourteen other things while we're at it.

111

SeaMonkey Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:46:04am

re: #108 CommonCents

U.S. Defense Spending to % of Outlays

We are near a historic low in defense spending versus total government spending.

And yet 41.5% of the world's total military budget is ours. China is next with 5.8%. What is the point? What is the threat?

112

Honorary Yooper Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:51:46am

re: #111 SeaMonkey

And yet 41.5% of the world's total military budget is ours. China is next with 5.8%. What is the point? What is the threat?

Part of the reason why the US spends more on military has to do with the fact that we defend much of Europe and Japan as well as keeping the seas free and clear for travel. Our navy performs much the same function now as did the Royal Navy of a century ago. We outlay more because we protect more.

113

ryannon Tue, Oct 20, 2009 11:12:22am

re: #109 Ojoe

If you can't stand where the GOP is going, please check out the Modern Whig Party.
Modern Whig Party Homepage.
Short video about the Whigs.

We want to see a WhigCam, Joe.

114

Ojoe Tue, Oct 20, 2009 11:17:51am

re: #113 ryannon

OK I will see if I can (sc)hair one up.

115

Political Atheist Tue, Oct 20, 2009 11:46:03am

re: #61 winemaker

How the heck does a poll discrepancy prove fraud? Lots of things skew polls. Methods, timing, size. Even exit polls vary.

116

ckb Tue, Oct 20, 2009 11:46:39am

Despite this, Rasmussen has the GoP ahead on the generic ballot.

Rasmussen Reports.

117

Political Atheist Tue, Oct 20, 2009 11:50:47am

re: #111 SeaMonkey

Factor in expensive technology and labor vs China and you see the disparity is not as great as you write. China is a local power, not global. They copy many military designs. We develop on our own. If you believe China tells the truth about how much they spend, you might believe almost anything.

118

harry91 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 11:55:56am

re: #116 ckb

Yes, he is a hardcore Democrat, but nate silver sums it up pretty well:

[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

119

akarra Tue, Oct 20, 2009 12:03:01pm

The problem with this is that it is probably anger at people like John McCain and acceptance of some of the basic talking points of the worst part of the right-wing blogosphere (the two parties are no different, etc.).

I just hope the loss of confidence in the GOP makes them abandon all populist pretense and start standing for principle: I hope they do their best to make sure we win in Afghanistan and secure Iraq; I hope they fight for limited government but don't yell "you lie" at the winning party; I hope they work to moderate the base and make it clear right-wing bloggers that are extremists are unwelcome, no matter how many "Tea Parties" they've attended.

120

GoatGuy Tue, Oct 20, 2009 12:18:14pm

Oh, come on, Charles...

WAPO says the GOP is suffering from a bad case of political dementia, incontinence, and halitosis? WAPO? Change all the words, and you'll have something closer to the truth.

I was (just shocked) reading the NewsWeek that just arrived yesterday ... wherein there's an editorial from some permanently employed nutjob that decries the G.O.P. (but in particular CONSERVATIVES) as, and I quote, "the Conservative party is irrelevant". This was his final take-away in an article otherwise actively promoting the idea that FOX News is so horribly right-slanted that it is UnAmerican (his words and title, not mine).

O, sure.

Well when you're from the protected matrix of the politically central Big City (Washington DC), all that grass between the District of Columbia and California's wine country ... looks like weeds I guess, in which one would find some pretty distasteful vermin: Conservatives. Snakes. Republicans. Bad for the Nation. UnAmerican.

Un-huh. NOT.

We consider ourselves a necessary expedient in this country: careful enough to not squander our resources, careful enough to keep our democratic republic pretty much on a democratic basis, not socialist. We like our military, we suppor them, we like our flag, and salute it. We'll also defend the right of freedoms of speech that include burning those flags, pissing on them. Its speech, and we're free to have it. It is for exactly the same reason that we tend to fight tooth-and-nail for our freedom to think individually, in whatever fashion we want. I think bigots are morally objectionable, but I don't much object to their sticking their feet into their collective mouths.

That's why I read LGF: Charles is wise enough to find fault with the asshats on the Right, on the Left, on the North, and the South. He's wise enough to hold the baked clams responsible for their outbursts of ignonymity and abstreuse maunderings.

So, WAPO? HooDeF*ck cares. They've always been a good substitute for Downy toilet paper, in a pinch. Or wrapping fish.

GoatGuy

121

Yashmak Tue, Oct 20, 2009 12:28:03pm

This is what happens when a party allows folks with ideas that alienate large portions of the electorate to be their voice.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a party (my party!) which couldn't capitalize on the opportunity presented by such a weak candidate as Obama, now decides to turn down an even worse road. . .one which will take them ever further away from the reins of power. Disappointed? Yes. Surprised? Not anymore.

122

prairiefire Tue, Oct 20, 2009 12:32:16pm

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've also read on blogs that "Romneycare" drives the Rebublican base crazy.

123

Mike DeGuzman Tue, Oct 20, 2009 1:00:42pm

Hummm...Washington Post/ABC News poll?? How accurate can you get??I'm wondering who did they polled to get those accurate figures?

124

GCM29 Tue, Oct 20, 2009 1:48:54pm

Well, lots of good that pandering to the base to the exclusion of sane people has done for the GOP. Awesome strategy, guys. Yeesh.

125

Yashmak Tue, Oct 20, 2009 3:56:24pm

re: #123 Mike DeGuzman

Hummm...Washington Post/ABC News poll?? How accurate can you get??I'm wondering who did they polled to get those accurate figures?

I suspect the results probably wouldn't have been much better if they'd polled the conservatives here.

126

suchislife Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:22:45pm

re: #123 Mike DeGuzman

If you're wondering, why don't you just look it up or read the comments that talk about just that? Instead of just vaguely asking and casting aspertions, you could just find out more details about this poll or research the general reliability of the pollster in question. You know, fact check it.
There are several comments about this right here on this thread, and several people mentioned the best place to learn more about pollsters and polling in general: Nate Silver's 538.
[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]

127

ronnie Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:30:13pm

Well, all around it's a bad day for every politician... Drudge has also a story on a CNN poll that says that 1/2 the country disagrees with Obama on issues:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2009/10/20/cnn-poll-half-the-country-disagrees-with-obama-on-issues/

and here is a Rasmussen link as well:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/scoreboards/by_the_numbers2/by_the_numbers

But yeah, even with the polling sample issue, this is not good for the GOP - hopefully it will serve as a warning that going too much to the right has its consequences and it should in fact go back to the center like folks like Frum have been advocating ever since Obama was elected...

128

ronnie Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:31:23pm

re: #120 GoatGuy

I call the WaPo the WaCko ;-)

129

Wozza Matter? Tue, Oct 20, 2009 4:59:16pm

re: #2 Sharmuta

the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again expecting a different result...

the Tory party in Britain has only just - and it's till tenuous - got back into the game - and that was by moving to the centre ground and overtaking the Labour party on some Civil Liberties issues like opposing the "surveilence state"... and compulsory Identity Cards/Identity database.

All of the articles the Right runs saying that "conservatism" is on the rise in Europe or around the world - they sure as hell don't recognise that the British tories are probably to the Liberal Left of Obama on some issues.

130

Wozza Matter? Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:00:55pm

re: #127 ronnie

half the country didn't vote for obama...

His relative decline in popularity with Dems and Independents is still nothing for the GOP to hang their hat on yet with their own ratings.

131

[deleted] Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:13:41pm

132

ronnie Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:18:10pm

re: #130 wozzablog

True - but that should sadden the GOP even more, because if they decided to move to the center (instead of the right) they could DEFINITELY win the next election... it is winnable. But if they make the wrong choice, they will hand it over to Mr.O. on a silver platter...

They need to find anyone... I wanted Giuliani to be on the ticket, but realize that is unfortunately impossible, given the current direction the wind is blowing there. Remember even McCain's daughter went on Fox to say that guys like Limbaugh, Buchanan et al do not speak for the GOP. More voices like that are needed from more senior GOP members. And they better find someone with one ounce of CHARISMA otherwise they are doomed...

133

Wozza Matter? Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:24:43pm

re: #132 ronnie

someone asked me on another thread the other day who the GOP should be pushing as strong independent "non-total-package" conservatives... i forgot Ms Mccain.
I have the utmost respect for her.

After Giuliani's total failure to Campaign at all last time out - until his defeatist rally in Florida - i don't think he will even get traction with GOP moderates next time around. BUT - i was suprised that Mccain got the nomination last time. So whadda i know?

The election is Obama's to lose - not the GOP's to win at this point still - if Obama puls off his election promises and gets the base re-energised he will be almost impossible to stop.
Unless the GOP can gain traction with independents - who want significant healthcare reform - they will be Stymied.

134

Wozza Matter? Tue, Oct 20, 2009 5:27:31pm

re: #131 jag1ed

oh - sweetheart - we love it when you talk that way to us.

135

pennstconserv Tue, Oct 20, 2009 9:41:19pm

I hate it when people use massaged statistics to make a point. Charles, you may be right, but this WaPo poll isn't the way to prove it. Loved the British colonel's UN speech though.

136

Charles Johnson Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:23:04pm

As usual, they show up at the end of dead threads to spout talking points. Any poll that makes the GOP look bad must automatically be considered suspect. Yadda yadda. Same old same old.

137

sngnsgt Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:37:11pm

Give lefties time, voters will start turning on them and then they'll blame it on GOP lies and fear mongering. Oh and, whatever it is, it's Bush's fault.

138

Varek Raith Tue, Oct 20, 2009 10:43:22pm

re: #131 jag1ed

You ladies are exactly right. What the party needs is more winners like RINO McCain. Oh but that is right Palin lost it for McCain . errr right?

Enjoy the extended outing in the wilderness! That is exactly what going to happen if this 'RINO' purge continues in the GOP. Talk about stepping on a political landmine to spite yourself...

re: #135 pennstconserv

I hate it when people use massaged statistics to make a point. Charles, you may be right, but this WaPo poll isn't the way to prove it. Loved the British colonel's UN speech though.

So... you ignore polls when they're unfavorable? Do you trust them when they are favorable towards your position?

re: #137 sngnsgt

Give lefties time, voters will start turning on them and then they'll blame it on GOP lies and fear mongering. Oh and, whatever it is, it's Bush's fault.

The voters may very well turn on the left. They also see the GOP becoming increasingly insane. The GOP is doing a great job of assuring the center that they don't want centrist votes.
/Facepalms the GOP.

139

bunnymud Wed, Oct 21, 2009 11:21:31am

I don't see anything in the time stamps where this thread has "Died." Looks like it has just kept on going.

Just a heads up on that.

140

[deleted] Wed, Oct 21, 2009 3:11:35pm

141

ronnie Wed, Oct 21, 2009 4:17:09pm

re: #133 wozzablog

Healthcare reform is necessary, but like Krauthammer said it so eloquently himself - you have to start with by removing the malpractice BS that's going on... but the Dems won't do that because trial lawyers like Edwards & Co. need the status quo. If you somehow could make malpractice less litigious, insurance costs would go down - that's a no brainer. This is a way for the centrists to attack the Dems' proposals. There has to be a middle ground somewhere. I'm not categorically trying to torpedo Obama's proposals, but they could be vastly improved if he really were to uphold his promises during the campaign (i.e. no lobbying, etc. etc.).

Challenge these guys to recognize that step #1 to ANY healthcare package should be tort reform...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/08/07/health_care_reform_a_better_plan_97804.html

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