Gov. Christie, Another GOP Climate Change Denier

Environment • Views: 25,478

New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie joins the rest of the Republican Party in promoting anti-science ignorance: Gov. Christie says he’s skeptical that global warming is caused by humans.

TRENTON — Gov. Chris Christie says he’s skeptical that humans are responsible for global warming. ..

Asked by a man attending the event whether he thought mankind was responsible for global warming, Christie says he’s seen evidence on both sides of the argument but thinks it hasn’t been proven one way or another.

Christie says “more science” is needed to convince him.

Right, “more science” will do it. He just needs a little more. Is that so unreasonable?

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568 comments
1 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:16:23pm

It's all those cows farting.

2 Kragar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:16:32pm

/facepalm

3 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:17:50pm

And people suggest this guy as presidential material.

What a joke.

4 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:18:47pm

"We're still skeptical that wheels are better than dragging a couple of sticks. We've seen evidence on both sides of the issue but we need more proof."

5 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:19:48pm

the new pink....more science means anti-science?....I think it's perfectly understandable that people are skeptical of AGW findings...a lot of work needs to be done...let's make it a national security issue and get serious...it doesn't matter who or what is causing the cooling

6 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:20:29pm

re: #4 Shiplord Kirel

"Are illnesses really caused by viruses, bacteria, prions, fungi, parasites, and inborn genetic problems? Opinions differ. I'd like to hear more science on whether or not they're actually caused by tiny gremlins with sharp tweezers."

7 palomino  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:22:03pm

I thought this guy was supposed to be the big sane rising pragmatist in the GOP. So much for that.

8 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:22:25pm

re: #6 Obdicut

"Are illnesses really caused by viruses, bacteria, prions, fungi, parasites, and inborn genetic problems? Opinions differ. I'd like to hear more science on whether or not they're actually caused by tiny gremlins with sharp tweezers."

the article implies Christie believes the earth is cooling...work with that

9 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:22:38pm

Well, at least he is admitting that AGW is possible and not screaming that it is a hoax and calling for the perpetrators to be punished.

This puts him on the sane side of the GOP scale of things.

And will probably garner him a great deal of criticism from his own party.

10 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:22:58pm

re: #5 albusteve

No, Steve. The current state of the science shows us that AGW is occurring, with as high a probability as you can ever get in a massive, complex system. More research into the causes and sources of warming is not needed; it's AGW, with CO2 as the main source.

It may be understandable that so many people are skeptical, because people who should know better, like Governor Christie, are willing to delude them, lie to them, and feed them bullshit. But that doesn't apply to Christie. He's supposed to be a leader.

And it does indeed matter what is causing the warming; what is causing it is what we have to fix. That means we really do have to cut our fossil fuel usage, because CO2 is what's causing it.

This is all relatively simple.

11 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:23:27pm

Gov. Christie says he’s skeptical that global warming is caused by humans

he must have taken my class in angel and demon based physics

global warming is caused by disturbances in the music of the spheres, caused by agents of satan

12 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:23:32pm

And this was the guy who I heard said on this very site it would be "Obama's nightmare" to run against in 2012?

13 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:23:33pm

re: #8 albusteve

the article implies Christie believes the earth is cooling...work with that

Where does it do that, Steve?

14 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:23:42pm

re: #8 albusteve

the article implies Christie believes the earth is cooling...work with that

All those little gremlins are exhaling at once. Brrrrrrrr.

15 palomino  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:23:46pm

re: #3 Obdicut

And people suggest this guy as presidential material.

What a joke.

We're far too superficial to elect a man this obese and physically unattractive. On that note, Huckabee might want to drop a few lbs if he's serious about 2012.

16 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:24:22pm

These people must think that pissing in a pool is a good thing, since it's all natural like...

17 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:25:04pm

re: #16 yasharki

These people must think that pissing in a pool is a good thing, since it's all natural like...


as long as it's somebody else's pool...

18 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:25:18pm

re: #8 albusteve

the article implies Christie believes the earth is cooling...work with that

So in this analogy he'd be the guy who tells you that all those foreign microbes are making you stronger!

19 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:25:24pm

re: #10 Obdicut

No, Steve. The current state of the science shows us that AGW is occurring, with as high a probability as you can ever get in a massive, complex system. More research into the causes and sources of warming is not needed; it's AGW, with CO2 as the main source.

It may be understandable that so many people are skeptical, because people who should know better, like Governor Christie, are willing to delude them, lie to them, and feed them bullshit. But that doesn't apply to Christie. He's supposed to be a leader.

And it does indeed matter what is causing the warming; what is causing it is what we have to fix. That means we really do have to cut our fossil fuel usage, because CO2 is what's causing it.

This is all relatively simple.

you missed the point....human response to AGW does not need to justify it's origins

20 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:25:41pm

The point is that no amount of "more science" is going to convince the right wing at this point. Climate change denial is an article of faith. They say they want "more evidence," but it's a lie.

21 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:26:15pm

re: #13 Obdicut

Where does it do that, Steve?

don't be stupid with me...I don't play that game

22 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:26:24pm

seriously, tho, he's behind the curve in regard to the GOP agenda

the election is over, and this is not the time for placating the ignorant

it's the time for enforcing the wishes of multinational corporations

23 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:26:43pm

re: #19 albusteve

you missed the point...human response to AGW does not need to justify it's origins

Yes, it does, Steve. In order to deal with AGW, you have to clearly know the origins. You can't combat AGW with ice cubes. You have to combat it by removing the sources of warming.

24 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:27:06pm

re: #21 albusteve

don't be stupid with me...I don't play that game

I'm not, Steve. Where in the article does it imply that he believes the earth is cooling?

25 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:27:07pm

re: #15 palomino

We're far too superficial to elect a man this obese and physically unattractive. On that note, Huckabee might want to drop a few lbs if he's serious about 2012.

Wrong again!

[Link: www.cracked.com...]

Fat Candidates evidently do better than slim ones....

26 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:27:35pm

re: #20 Charles

The point is that no amount of "more science" is going to convince the right wing at this point. Climate change denial is an article of faith. They say they want "more evidence," but it's a lie.

he want's more evidence that humans are the source, while agreeing GW is a fact

27 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:27:35pm

re: #19 albusteve

you missed the point...human response to AGW does not need to justify it's origins

But it does need to understand them....

28 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:28:09pm

I think he should show us what he's done with the science already given to him before he's allowed to have any more.

29 reine.de.tout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:28:10pm

argh, these people are sooooo missing the boat, big time!

Instead of denying the obvious, they should accept it, and get their own experts to help devise ideas and potential solutions.

As long as they are denying the obvious, liberals will own the problem of global warming and any proposed solutions for it!

Now, that is not necessarily an awful thing, but I believe we'd all be much better served if there were all sorts of folks working on ideas and solutions.

It is so very frustrating to see conservatives making this a political issue, when it should not be. Any solutions to it might be political, but the fact that we have affected and continue to affect the earth should not be politicized.

30 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:28:21pm

re: #15 palomino

We're far too superficial to elect a man this obese and physically unattractive. On that note, Huckabee might want to drop a few lbs if he's serious about 2012.

i'm betting smiley mcmormonpants fer sure

the gop presidential nominations are one of the most predictable things in american politics

31 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:28:29pm

re: #20 Charles

The point is that no amount of "more science" is going to convince the right wing at this point. Climate change denial is an article of faith. They say they want "more evidence," but it's a lie.

See those who really would stop raising "the issue" if Obama would just release his Long Form Birth Certificate....

32 reine.de.tout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:28:51pm

re: #28 wrenchwench

I think he should show us what he's done with the science already given to him before he's allowed to have any more.

Yes.

33 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:29:14pm

Could well be that the "we need more science" riff remains the only possible response from a GOP member who accepts AGW, as anything else will get them run out of town on a rail.

34 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:29:52pm

re: #29 reine.de.tout

Exactly. If conservatives were on board, they could be criticizing Obama for supporting corn biodesiel, which is a really, really inefficient way to combat global warming, and proposing alternative solutions.

Instead, all they've got is distrust of science. Which is also harming the US's hope for staying ahead of the rest of the world scientifically, technologically, economically, and militarily.

35 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:30:33pm

re: #23 Obdicut

Yes, it does, Steve. In order to deal with AGW, you have to clearly know the origins. You can't combat AGW with ice cubes. You have to combat it by removing the sources of warming.

I don't deny that, but trying to convince all people that GW is human in origin is a waste of time....meanwhile what's been accomplished?...forget Christie and his ilk, go around them

36 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:30:48pm

re: #33 ralphieboy

It's really painful reading the energy positions of GOP members who clearly get that AGW is occurring, because they're promoting alternative energy research and cutting off our use of oil.

But they can't actually say that they believe in AGW. They can't buck the party.

It's a sad, painful thing.

37 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:30:55pm

re: #5 albusteve

the new pink...more science means anti-science?...I think it's perfectly understandable that people are skeptical of AGW findings...a lot of work needs to be done...let's make it a national security issue and get serious...it doesn't matter who or what is causing the cooling

Needing more science is just denier talk for 'no matter how much evidence you have I will not believe'. He doesn't really want more science.

38 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:31:36pm

re: #35 albusteve

How do you 'go around' a GOP majority in the House of Representatives who deny AGW, Steve?

39 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:31:44pm

re: #27 jamesfirecat

But it does need to understand them...

of course...but stalling for every Christie type that blocks progress leads nowhere

40 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:32:25pm

re: #35 albusteve

I don't deny that, but trying to convince all people that GW is human in origin is a waste of time...meanwhile what's been accomplished?...forget Christie and his ilk, go around them

And work with who exactly?

41 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:33:04pm

re: #39 albusteve

of course...but stalling for every Christie type that blocks progress leads nowhere

So you agree that this guy is an idiot and no one should pay attention to anything he says on the issue of AGW?

42 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:33:08pm

re: #37 b_sharp

Needing more science is just denier talk for 'no matter how much evidence you have I will not believe'. He doesn't really want more science.

that's my point right there

43 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:33:58pm

re: #34 Obdicut

I don't think it's distrust of science, I think it's dirty politics and corruption, they're pleasing big oil and joe the plumber in order to hold on to their seats. They wouldn't be twitting from their blackberries if they're so distrusting of science.

44 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:34:43pm

re: #43 yasharki

I don't think it's distrust of science, I think it's dirty politics and corruption, they're pleasing big oil and joe the plumber in order to hold on to their seats. They wouldn't be twitting from their blackberries if they're so distrusting of science.

Science is there to serve industry, not the other way around!

/

45 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:34:45pm

re: #38 Obdicut

How do you 'go around' a GOP majority in the House of Representatives who deny AGW, Steve?

don't know, but somebody better figure it out fast....I'd start by arguing that GW is detrimental to national security and go from there

46 palomino  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:34:50pm

Just in case anyone wonders what a general "anti-science" viewpoint looks and sounds like, here's a comment from the nj.com article linked to above.

ah, yes, the name calling. until 100 years ago evolution was not accepted by you scientists. and you THINK that dinosaurs went extinct because a meteor hit the planet. in the meantime you can't even explain how a bumble bee can fly. when you figure that out let me know. every era of scientists thought they had all the answers, they don't. you don't. the next era won't. only one thing has ever been proven, and that is at some point we die. in the meantime stop forcing us to believe your latest theories.

Yes, scientists should stop all their research and publication regarding facts because ego-deficient regresssives feel like they're being "forced to believe" in science.

47 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:35:28pm

re: #42 albusteve

that's my point right there

Your point wasn't clear.

48 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:36:04pm

re: #44 ralphieboy

Well, industry invests heavily in R&D, thereby advancing science, no?

49 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:36:10pm

re: #45 albusteve

That argument has been made over and over and over again since the time of Carter. It's not a brainwave.

Did you realize that Christie is not taking the position that the earth is cooling, in the article, and that you were wrong?

50 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:36:19pm

re: #40 jamesfirecat

And work with who exactly?

good question...where have the feds been since '06?...
nobody cares that much, that's the problem

51 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:36:55pm

re: #46 palomino

Just in case anyone wonders what a general "anti-science" viewpoint looks and sounds like, here's a comment from the nj.com article linked to above.

Yes, scientists should stop all their research and publication regarding facts because ego-deficient regresssives feel like they're being "forced to believe" in science.

The farce is strong in this one.

52 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:37:17pm

Just to remind people:

As of now, the only people who deny it are paid propagandists for corporate interests, their hacks, their pet politicians and of course the deluded masses who believe those lies and think that this is somehow a Democratic issue only. They also would have you believe that somehow the whole thing was invented by Al Gore. That simply is not so. Scientists from many disciplines have been looking into this for a century.

We are long past the point of "we need more study to look into it." The problem is real and well established. It is here now. It is a matter of life and death that faces every man woman and child on the planet. The time to debate is long past. The time to act is passing us by.

To get an idea of how many different people have been looking at this and for how long, please look at my following post:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The first person to really worry about AGW was Svante Arrhenius back in the late 1800's and early 1900's. The fact that CO2 was a greenhouse gas was well established by 1896. Angstrom (the one the unit is named for) was another early pioneer of the theory back in the day as well.

The basic ideas are quite easy to understand, and the science is quite firm. CO2 traps thermal radiation in the form of IR. This causes the atmosphere to warm which in turn, causes numerous feedback mechanisms to reinforce and accelerate the warming.

For example, a warmer atmosphere makes for more water vapor, which itself is a potent GHG. This in turn, traps more heat, which makes for more water vapor.

Another example is that ice reflects more IR into space than water. The warmer it is, the more ice melts, which means that less IR gets reflected and again the Earth warms.

Of course, all of this energy originally comes from the sun. What we are doing is shifting the balance of heat in to the Earth and heat radiated to space, out of the Earth to a new, warmer equilibrium.

An interesting fact is that we have a tremendous amount of beautiful and comprehensive data from the military. It is important to remember that very accurate temperature readings were (and still are) routine and religiously taken from all over the world by the world's navies. Accurate thermometers on ships were standard in the 18th century.

In order to build an IR guided missile, of course, one must have very clear understanding of how atmospheric CO2 interacts with IR. In the 1950's this was a very large area of research.

Of course, regular academic geology, biology, meteorology, and physics continued to advance on the problem as well.

To get a very in depth and comprehensive history of the development of the field coupled with a lot of the theory, please look at this marvelous site from AIP (American Institute of Physics).

[Link: www.aip.org...]

53 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:37:49pm

re: #48 yasharki

Well, industry invests heavily in R&D, thereby advancing science, no?

They invest in applied science, not basic science. Basic science is gone into mostly by government-funded labs. And many industries don't research competing technologies. It wasn't the buggy manufacturers that turned into the car-makers. It wasn't the home phone makers, in general, that became the cell-phone makers. Each generation of technology usually has new companies spearheading it; it's rare when companies stay strong and vital through broad technology changes in their field.

54 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:38:36pm

re: #49 Obdicut

That argument has been made over and over and over again since the time of Carter. It's not a brainwave.

Did you realize that Christie is not taking the position that the earth is cooling, in the article, and that you were wrong?

TRENTON — Gov. Chris Christie says he’s skeptical that humans are responsible for global warming.

I assume this implies he believes there is GW...and forget your right/wrong obsession...it doesn't work with me, no matter how many windy comments you post

55 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:38:38pm

Ot - (it was a plane ?)

Blogger Believes Webcam Image Solves 'Missile' Mystery

Bahneman wonders if he is the first to call it: "I did a lot of extrapolation of what flights could be at the right position (off the coast) at the right altitude (for contrail formation) and came down to two possibilities: UPS Flight 902 (UPS902) or America West Flight 808 (AWE808)."

He concluded: "As I was researching tonight (24 hours later), I realized that today's (Tuesday's) AWE808 current position (at around 4:50 p.m.) was almost the same as it was the day of the incident. I quickly pulled up a Newport Beach webcam and found that (apparently) AWE808 was making an identical contrail, 24 hours later!"

(see pictures at link)

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Science!

56 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:38:49pm

re: #50 albusteve

good question...where have the feds been since '06?...
nobody cares that much, that's the problem

Obama's EPA is regulating CO2. The GOP and the states are fighting him on it. Oddly enough, the EPA can't just 'go around' them.

Funny, that.

57 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:38:55pm

re: #50 albusteve

good question...where have the feds been since '06?...
nobody cares that much, that's the problem

I'd argue the problem lies not in a lack of caring, but in an overflow of attempts to make people not care....

58 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:38:59pm

these people wouln't believe AGW was happening until their states started sinking. and even then they'd claim it was a fluke.

59 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:39:12pm

re: #46 palomino

Bumblebee flight 'triumph of power over finesse'
[Link: www.physorg.com...]

Humans have already proved that bumble bees use a combination of denial and gods will to move through the air.

60 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:39:23pm

it's not really an 'anti-science' viewpoint, it's an anti-regulation viewpoint wrapped up in anti-science packaging that sells it to the base

61 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:39:39pm

re: #54 albusteve

Steve, if he believes in "GW", global warming, then he doesn't believe in cooling, which is what you said.

And try to lay off the personal attacks.

62 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:40:06pm

I need more evidence that internal combustion works before I'll operate a motor vehicle, more science

63 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:40:22pm

re: #56 Obdicut

Obama's EPA is regulating CO2. The GOP and the states are fighting him on it. Oddly enough, the EPA can't just 'go around' them.

Funny, that.

time to work another angle eh?

64 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:40:33pm

re: #48 yasharki

Well, industry invests heavily in R&D, thereby advancing science, no?


as long as science brings them profits. when science announces something that might affect its bottom line, then it is ignored, suppressed or denied.

65 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:40:45pm

re: #56 Obdicut

Obama's EPA is regulating CO2. The GOP and the states are fighting him on it. Oddly enough, the EPA can't just 'go around' them.

Funny, that.

///So I guess what Steve is saying here is he wants a more powerful federal government that can force companies to implement green tech to fight Global Warming...

66 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:41:02pm

re: #55 Walter L. Newton

Killgore posted a link to that blog this morning, right before you posted a link about it being a missile.

67 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:41:30pm

re: #52 LudwigVanQuixote

Tyndale had a very good idea of how melting glaciers would affect climate even before Arrhenius. ~1859

68 palomino  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:41:39pm

re: #25 jamesfirecat

Wrong again!

[Link: www.cracked.com...]

Fat Candidates evidently do better than slim ones...

But there's clearly a point of diminishing returns. If you're just somewhat overweight like Clinton, you can get away with it. But when you've got at least two chins, and your suit fits like a tarp over a house, and you're close to morbidly obese then you're gonna have troubles.

It's no accident that we haven't elected a truly fat man president since Taft.

69 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:41:41pm

re: #61 Obdicut

Steve, if he believes in "GW", global warming, then he doesn't believe in cooling, which is what you said.

And try to lay off the personal attacks.

LOL

70 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:42:54pm

re: #57 jamesfirecat

I'd argue the problem lies not in a lack of caring, but in an overflow of attempts to make people not care...

and I believe in the end they will succeed....we are fucked, get used to it....AGW just lost it's luster

71 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:43:10pm

re: #53 Obdicut

True, but there are exceptions to inert industries, semiconductors are a good example methinks.

72 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:44:01pm

re: #66 wrenchwench

Killgore posted a link to that blog this morning, right before you posted a link about it being a missile.

And so?

73 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:44:06pm

re: #71 yasharki

True. Sadly, the oil and energy industries are not exceptions. There's a lot of complex reasons for this, but they're really not pushing forwards alternative energy nearly as much as they're retarding progress on it.

74 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:44:37pm

re: #72 Walter L. Newton

And so?

Absolutely.

75 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:44:37pm

Oy vay, Black Ops is out!!!! _Must_have_now_ :)

76 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:45:15pm

re: #65 jamesfirecat

///So I guess what Steve is saying here is he wants a more powerful federal government that can force companies to implement green tech to fight Global Warming...

I want a govt that will help finance grid updates, license Hyperions for production, and get on the right side of the looming palatable water issue...whatever it takes

77 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:47:55pm

re: #75 yasharki

Before you do--
[Link: www.rockpapershotgun.com...]

78 palomino  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:47:58pm

re: #30 engineer dog

i'm betting smiley mcmormonpants fer sure

the gop presidential nominations are one of the most predictable things in american politics

I agree, but the tea partiers won't be happy. Romney the flim flamming used car salesman has tried to re-invent himself as a tea partier, but he's not getting much traction. He governed as a liberal in MA; he signed HCR into law there; he's flip flopped on every social issue; and then there's the fact that he's Mormon, which is a dealbreaker to some fundies.

Despite having no principles and reversing previously held positions at the drop of a hat, he's the least repellent of the current crop of 2012 hopefuls. Certainly would be better than Palin, Gingrich, Demint, Perry, Barbour, et al. But Romney has a good chance at winning because, despite the tea party's delusions, the old gop establishment still controls the party.

79 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:48:51pm

re: #70 albusteve

and I believe in the end they will succeed...we are fucked, get used to it...AGW just lost it's luster

So what we should all just give up and die, and accept that human civilization as we know is about to get torn apart?

Sorry, I can't be that dispassionate about human suffering....

80 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:49:58pm

re: #78 palomino

... despite the tea party's delusions, the old gop establishment still controls the party.

But for how much longer? These people have already stated that they are not going to be stopped by mere ballots, and that is in open, general elections. Just imagine what they are going to do within the party hierarchy once they are allowed into caucus...

81 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:50:55pm

re: #78 palomino

I agree, but the tea partiers won't be happy. Romney the flim flamming used car salesman has tried to re-invent himself as a tea partier, but he's not getting much traction. He governed as a liberal in MA; he signed HCR into law there; he's flip flopped on every social issue; and then there's the fact that he's Mormon, which is a dealbreaker to some fundies.

Despite having no principles and reversing previously held positions at the drop of a hat, he's the least repellent of the current crop of 2012 hopefuls. Certainly would be better than Palin, Gingrich, Demint, Perry, Barbour, et al. But Romney has a good chance at winning because, despite the tea party's delusions, the old gop establishment still controls the party.

rezakly!

the new gop house majority was born already fighting amongst itself between the establishment and bagger wings

the first order of business seems to be kill palin before she gets too strong - it's kinda like a 1950s monster movie...

82 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:52:38pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

So what we should all just give up and die, and accept that human civilization as we know is about to get torn apart?

Sorry, I can't be that dispassionate about human suffering...

not much movement on the AGW issue is there?...I'm not dispassionate either but the powers that be are...govt and science are the only hope, disregarding Christie and the like

83 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:52:47pm

re: #73 Obdicut

Right, that's why personally I think government should somehow regulate them better, with a long term goal of pushing them to researching alternative energies. I mean we've got a god damned star bombarding us with energy 24/7, we've got wind, tides, virtually inexhaustible sources of energy, and we're burning finite amount of carbon based fuels...

84 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:52:47pm

re: #66 wrenchwench

Killgore posted a link to that blog this morning, right before you posted a link about it being a missile.


Ludwig-We have our answer!

As usual Kilgore is right on it, the most boring ordinary explanation is the right one and funny how the same thing happens 24 hours later and nobody notices except one intrepid blogger. Heh.

85 palomino  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:56:20pm

re: #80 ralphieboy

But for how much longer? These people have already stated that they are not going to be stopped by mere ballots, and that is in open, general elections. Just imagine what they are going to do within the party hierarchy once they are allowed into caucus...

It should be an entertaining circus. But I've still got a feeling that the real leaders in the party, who have been in DC forever, will use their institutional advantages to keep the tea party in check.

I don't find the tea party sincere enough to think they won't get seduced by the power and privilege of DC. At that point, they'll become good little soldiers and stop rocking the boat because the "Dems are so much worse." These folks, who claim to care so much for deficits and small govt, were almost completely silent from 2000-2008 because their home team was in power. I suspect they'll revert to that again.

86 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:57:07pm

I'm going to repost a very lucid post from Ming in the last thread.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

A big part of America's past strength was that it often attracted the best and brightest scientists from other countries. This American advantage is already in decline, but the decline will get much worse if people all over the world can see on television scientists dragged into Congress and asked hostile and insulting questions by those who don't believe that any climate change is caused by any human activity.

This is a key thing. Being anti-AGW, being anti-science, is the largest attack on the foundation of American economic, political, and military power that this nation has ever seen. There is nothing that will doom us as a power more quickly than a lack of scientists, engineers, and the like flowing into this country. We depend on the 'brain drain' from other countries.

By tapping into the anti-science streak in the US and nourishing it and channeling it and growing it into a huge flood, the GOP is doing immeasurable harm to the US.

So even if they're making the cynical ploy that the US can weather climate change better than other nations-- which is a stupid, stupid, stupid gamble-- they're dead wrong. We can't do so while driving away our scientists.

87 palomino  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:57:25pm

re: #81 engineer dog

rezakly!

the new gop house majority was born already fighting amongst itself between the establishment and bagger wings

the first order of business seems to be kill palin before she gets too strong - it's kinda like a 1950s monster movie...

Definitely like the 1950s, in more ways than one.

88 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:57:47pm

The Stepford Wives Party

89 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:58:44pm

BBL.
Tortellini beckons.

90 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 3:59:49pm

re: #77 Obdicut

I don't trust other people's reviews, they're usually biased either by personal opinion or marketing pitches. Infinity Ward has delivered an amazing game with each COD iteration, imho there's only one other fps which comes close: Crysis. I'll give it a shot regardless of any reviews, it's a cult classic :)

91 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:01:14pm

re: #90 yasharki

RPS doesn't do ordinary reviews. It's still a good thing to read for expectation management, unless you're an uber 'no-spoilers-not-even-of-gameplay' type.

92 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:04:46pm

some wingers i know are promoting mitch daniels for presnident nominee

in an apparant effort to win by boring us to death

93 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:05:56pm

re: #92 engineer dog

some wingers i know are promoting mitch daniels for presnident nominee

in an apparant effort to win by boring us to death

Also known as the Mike Dukakis style of debating....

94 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:07:08pm

re: #92 engineer dog

He'll never make it past those wingnuts once they see this:


In his first State of the State address on January 18, 2005, Daniels put forward his agenda to improve the State's fiscal situation by calling for strict controls on all spending increases and proposed a one-year 1% tax increase on all individuals and entities earning over $100,000.

Class warfare!!eleventy11!

96 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:14:44pm

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Hmmm, they aren't using the creepy Puppet Master graphic from last night anymore.

97 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:15:52pm

Fox is getting a little more fair and balance on their network...


NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Lou Dobbs has joined up with Fox Business News, the network announced Wednesday, exactly one year after the anchor left his former employer, CNN.

Dobbs has signed a "multi-year" contract with Fox (NWS, Fortune 500), according to the Network.

[Link: money.cnn.com...]


Oh, and a healthy dose of xenophobia too.

98 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:16:04pm

re: #91 Obdicut

Hmmm. I read the whole thing and can only wonder what the reviewers problem is. He misses the point completely, it's an FPS with heavy focus on multiplayer action. He's bitching and moaning about a cheesy story, what did he expect a Shakespearean tragedy? How about this here comment: "this is a game about gun porn", no shit Einstein, that's the point. I think this guy needs to play Mass Effect or maybe Dragon Age, both works of art with gripping stories, shooters are just not his thing.

99 elizajane  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:16:42pm

Here's where I proudly present this story, by my very own partner:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

"At the current pace of research and development, global oil will run out 90 years before replacement technologies are ready, says a new University of California, Davis, study based on stock market expectations.
The forecast was published online Monday (Nov. 8) in the journal Environmental Science & Technology. It is based on the theory that long-term investors are good predictors of whether and when new energy technologies will become commonplace."....

....Niemeier said the new study's findings are a warning that current renewable-fuel targets are not ambitious enough to prevent harm to society, economic development and natural ecosystems.
“We need stronger policy impetus to push the development of these alternative replacement technologies along,” she said.

So Chris Christie and the rest can fiddle as Rome burns all they want, but even a study of market capitalization says that we need to start getting off oil and onto sustainables ASAP (because P isn't that S).

100 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:17:34pm

re: #97 darthstar

A personal Friend of Alex Jones too

101 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:17:39pm

re: #98 yasharki

Hmmm. I read the whole thing and can only wonder what the reviewers problem is. He misses the point completely, it's an FPS with heavy focus on multiplayer action. He's bitching and moaning about a cheesy story, what did he expect a Shakespearean tragedy? How about this here comment: "this is a game about gun porn", no shit Einstein, that's the point. I think this guy needs to play Mass Effect or maybe Dragon Age, both works of art with gripping stories, shooters are just not his thing.

What about Bioshock and to a certain degree Bioshock 2?

There's no reason an FPS can't be Shakesperain in the scope and nature of its story if you try hard enough....

102 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:18:30pm

re: #86 Obdicut

I'm going to repost a very lucid post from Ming in the last thread.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

This is a key thing. Being anti-AGW, being anti-science, is the largest attack on the foundation of American economic, political, and military power that this nation has ever seen. There is nothing that will doom us as a power more quickly than a lack of scientists, engineers, and the like flowing into this country. We depend on the 'brain drain' from other countries.

By tapping into the anti-science streak in the US and nourishing it and channeling it and growing it into a huge flood, the GOP is doing immeasurable harm to the US.

So even if they're making the cynical ploy that the US can weather climate change better than other nations-- which is a stupid, stupid, stupid gamble-- they're dead wrong. We can't do so while driving away our scientists.

all this has been said over and over til it's boring...we need solutions, not rehashing the problems again...start with getting nuclear energy online as fast as possible...screw the minnows and butterflies

103 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:19:46pm

re: #100 Killgore Trout

A personal Friend of Alex Jones too

Sorry...didn't see your page.

104 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:20:04pm

re: #102 albusteve

Isn't "screw the minnows and butterflies" the attitude that got us here?

105 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:20:11pm

re: #102 albusteve

all this has been said over and over til it's boring...we need solutions, not rehashing the problems again...start with getting nuclear energy online as fast as possible...screw the minnows and butterflies

We have a right to keep harping on what the problem is, because so many people refuse to admit there is one.

Remember your AA, the first step is admitting to the existence of a problem, until a solid majority of Americans (especially those elected to positions of power) "get" what is going on, trying to implement solutions will only be met with anger and hatred...

106 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:20:35pm

re: #97 darthstar

Fox is getting a little more fair and balance on their network...


Oh, and a healthy dose of xenophobia too.

bullshit...show me where Dobbs is xenophobic....illegal immigration is a gigantic problem and you reduce your opposition to xenophobes...tripe

107 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:20:43pm

re: #102 albusteve

all this has been said over and over til it's boring...we need solutions, not rehashing the problems again...start with getting nuclear energy online as fast as possible...screw the minnows and butterflies

gotcha...we should have the first new nuclear power plant online in about 25 or 30 years...go ahead and hold your breath.

108 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:20:55pm

re: #103 darthstar

Sorry...didn't see your page.

No problem. It's worth posting in the comments too. As long as the word gets out.

109 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:21:22pm

re: #104 wrenchwench

Isn't "screw the minnows and butterflies" the attitude that got us here?

beats me...do you have a better solution?

110 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:21:33pm

re: #106 albusteve

bullshit...show me where Dobbs is xenophobic...illegal immigration is a gigantic problem and you reduce your opposition to xenophobes...tripe

Good to see you're back to your old grumpy self.

111 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:22:21pm

re: #101 jamesfirecat

I'm not sure what to say, I actually got bored with both Bioshocks, never got past the middle. They just don't feel right as shooters, and don't cut it as rpgs either. I'm not saying they're bad games, it's just that I never got into them.

112 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:22:27pm

re: #107 darthstar

gotcha...we should have the first new nuclear power plant online in about 25 or 30 years...go ahead and hold your breath.

yup, where fucked
mother nature is in the drivers seat now....it's a hundred years too late to wail about AGW

113 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:23:15pm

re: #102 albusteve

re: #106 albusteve

no more caffeine for you tonite!

114 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:23:28pm

re: #110 darthstar

Good to see you're back to your old grumpy self.

I'm jolly as can be...just show me the beef

115 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:24:33pm

re: #111 yasharki

I'm not sure what to say, I actually got bored with both Bioshocks, never got past the middle. They just don't feel right as shooters, and don't cut it as rpgs either. I'm not saying they're bad games, it's just that I never got into them.

See Portal then.

There is no reason an FPS can't have a compelling story, or that we shouldn't expect one just because its harder to do.

To argue otherwise invites the soft bigotry of low expectations...

As formulaic in places as it was, Halo's story was gripping enough that I actually wanted to read the side novels to learn more about the universe it took place in, including the one that was just a retelling of the game more or less....

116 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:25:07pm

re: #112 albusteve

yup, where fucked
mother nature is in the drivers seat now...it's a hundred years too late to wail about AGW

Nuclear is a long-term solution. There are now smaller power plants that can somewhat safely be brought online in about 15 years, but we're not going to get a return on investment for a long time to come. Solar and wind can be brought online quickly, and incrementally. Put up a dozen windmills a month and bring them online as they're installed. Same thing with solar farms.

I don't think we've built a nuclear plant in this country in 30 years.

117 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:26:03pm

re: #114 albusteve

I'm jolly as can be...just show me the beef

You asked.

118 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:27:03pm

re: #98 yasharki

Did you skip this part?

As a shooting game, it is a largely relentless ever-forward push against massed foes, in the COD idiom – but it does suffer for enemies that never surprise and for the heights of its tactics only ever encompassing reaching the next brazenly-highlighted waypoint. As with MW2, there’s no particular pride to be had from any kill – it’s Space Invaders stuff, enemies nothing more than pop-up targets, able to overwhelm only by sheer weight of numbers rather than any signs of strategic sentience. Played, as it was for me, in the course of one day, the bulk of its levels seemed interchangeable, something to be carved through to get to the next visit from Basil Exposition. A few bravura moments are interspersed, however – a prison escape in the second level, and an impressive piece of technical show-offery involving a spyplane and a ground attack force. I often felt that there was something bolder struggling to get out, and occasionally it really shows itself.

119 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:27:06pm

re: #115 jamesfirecat

See Portal then.

There is no reason an FPS can't have a compelling story, or that we shouldn't expect one just because its harder to do.

To argue otherwise invites the soft bigotry of low expectations...

As formulaic in places as it was, Halo's story was gripping enough that I actually wanted to read the side novels to learn more about the universe it took place in, including the one that was just a retelling of the game more or less...

Are there any FPSs that have a poo gun as a weapon? They would be great for burying politicians in their own output.

120 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:27:37pm

re: #116 darthstar

Nuclear is a long-term solution. There are now smaller power plants that can somewhat safely be brought online in about 15 years, but we're not going to get a return on investment for a long time to come. Solar and wind can be brought online quickly, and incrementally. Put up a dozen windmills a month and bring them online as they're installed. Same thing with solar farms.

I don't think we've built a nuclear plant in this country in 30 years.

too bad...it was the only way
I do not believe that curly bulbs and solar panels will save us from the shitstorm they say is looming....party hearty bro!

121 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:27:54pm

re: #102 albusteve

Tell it to Governor Christie.

And to the GOP.

Write them letters. Call them.

122 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:27:56pm

re: #116 darthstar

Nuclear is a long-term solution. There are now smaller power plants that can somewhat safely be brought online in about 15 years, but we're not going to get a return on investment for a long time to come. Solar and wind can be brought online quickly, and incrementally. Put up a dozen windmills a month and bring them online as they're installed. Same thing with solar farms.

I don't think we've built a nuclear plant in this country in 30 years.

With enough government seed money we could get solar panels installed on everyone's roof's. Last time I checked if we actually did that it would cover about a 1/5th, or maybe it was just a 1/10th of America's total energy consumption, still nothing to sneeze at...

123 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:28:33pm

re: #117 darthstar

You asked.

that is too cool....I wonder what it sounds like

124 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:28:52pm

re: #101 jamesfirecat

Most shooters are targeted at multiplayer audience, rendering their single player campaigns almost redundant. No bots can provide you with a challenge human being can, at least not yet :) There are a few shooters with interesting stories, but they're exceptions imho.

125 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:29:15pm

re: #123 albusteve

that is too cool...I wonder what it sounds like

Lady Gaga on the hoof, most likely.

126 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:29:55pm

re: #120 albusteve

too bad...it was the only way
I do not believe that curly bulbs and solar panels will save us from the shitstorm they say is looming...party hearty bro!

Small steps like CFL bulbs were never intended to solve the problem, they were intended as a catalyst for adoption of intelligent green technologies.

127 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:30:53pm

re: #124 yasharki

Most shooters are targeted at multiplayer audience, rendering their single player campaigns almost redundant. No bots can provide you with a challenge human being can, at least not yet :) There are a few shooters with interesting stories, but they're exceptions imho.

Speaking as a loner with no social life, what is wrong with demanding a damn fine single player campaign from my shooters?

Look at GoldenEye on the N64, yes the multiplayer was amazing and me and my brother had tons of fun playing around with it, but the single player campaign was long with lots of replay on three different difficulty levels....

128 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:30:55pm

re: #123 albusteve

that is too cool...I wonder what it sounds like

Probably like a well seasoned meaty Les Paul.

129 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:32:04pm

re: #127 jamesfirecat


I think Mass Effect 2 on really high difficulty settings provided a good FPS challenge, too.

130 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:32:16pm

re: #125 darthstar

Lady Gaga on the hoof, most likely.

I'd rather have her on my bed.

131 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:32:52pm

re: #129 Obdicut

I think Mass Effect 2 on really high difficulty settings provided a good FPS challenge, too.

Yes it did, but I really like playing adept and vangaurd :)

132 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:33:28pm

re: #128 b_sharp

Probably like a well seasoned meaty Les Paul.

a Blonde Les Paul Standard....the biggest prize of them all
[Link: www.gibson.com...]

133 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:33:45pm

re: #118 Obdicut

Nope, I've read it and beg to differ. The guy must have been playing on easiest difficulty setting, I don't have Black Ops yet, but in COD2MW bots can get pretty nasty on veteran level. They'll try to flank you, use cover, use grenades (including throwing yours back), etc. Trust me you'll get your ass handed to you again and again playing COD2MW special ops on veteran level.

134 Kronocide  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:34:09pm

Just checkin in to see if any More Science showed up.

135 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:36:04pm

re: #132 albusteve

a Blonde Les Paul Standard...the biggest prize of them all
[Link: www.gibson.com...]

I have close to 20 guitars. I would trade just about all of them for a Les Paul.

136 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:36:19pm

re: #133 yasharki

Heh. I've played COD2MW special ops on veteran level.

Sorry, my ass is still around.

The bots throw nades back on every difficult level, I think. It's pretty easy to defeat that; you cook off the grenade. Then they can't throw it back.

They do flank, but in predictable ways that means it's easy to pick them off as they move to flank.

137 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:39:25pm

re: #135 b_sharp

I have close to 20 guitars. I would trade just about all of them for a Les Paul.

I'm that way with dolls. The conventions for doll collectors are probably not as fun as guitar collectors, I would guess. Kind of hard to get middle aged ladies to stay up late and jam.

138 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:40:07pm

re: #137 prairiefire

I'm that way with dolls. The conventions for doll collectors are probably not as fun as guitar collectors, I would guess. Kind of hard to get middle aged ladies to stay up late and jam.

Not if you bring a couple of gallons of fresh blackberries.

139 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:40:49pm

re: #137 prairiefire

I'm that way with dolls. The conventions for doll collectors are probably not as fun as guitar collectors, I would guess. Kind of hard to get middle aged ladies to stay up late and jam.

Head to an anime convention where there's a whole bunch of 20 and 30-somethings who collect super dollfies, they often know how to party :D

140 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:41:55pm

re: #137 prairiefire

I'm that way with dolls. The conventions for doll collectors are probably not as fun as guitar collectors, I would guess. Kind of hard to get middle aged ladies to stay up late and jam.

I love home made jam.

Just kidding.

The only person I jam with is my younger brother, and he lives 250km away so we get together about twice a year.

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:42:11pm

re: #135 b_sharp

Simple and evil! [Link: www.modernguitars.com...]

142 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:42:31pm

re: #135 b_sharp

I have close to 20 guitars. I would trade just about all of them for a Les Paul.

here's a Blonde....be patient

Youtube Video
143 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:43:10pm

re: #139 WindUpBird

Head to an anime convention where there's a whole bunch of 20 and 30-somethings who collect super dollfies, they often know how to party :D

Only if they're physically complete.

144 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:44:06pm

re: #127 jamesfirecat

I missed out on GoldenEye, was too busy collecting stars in Mario. Tried out Blood Stone last week, it tries to be Splinter Cell and NFS in the same game, miserably failing at both, it is also poorly ported from a console it seems, controls suck.

145 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:44:15pm

My spoof on Drudge Report.

Image: alexjonesdrudgehybrid.jpg

146 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:45:12pm

re: #135 b_sharp

I have close to 20 guitars. I would trade just about all of them for a Les Paul.

I have about 20 also. Wouldn't trade a single one for a Les Paul. In 30 years, I've never owned a Les Paul. Never wanted one. Now that telecaster you see in my avatar, I'd have a hard time choosing between that and my wife and kids.

147 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:45:51pm

re: #136 Obdicut

Try beating Brazilian mission where you have to survive 10 Jaggies, on veteran, alone :) Took me a couple of days to figure it out.

148 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:46:08pm

re: #139 WindUpBird

Head to an anime convention where there's a whole bunch of 20 and 30-somethings who collect super dollfies, they often know how to party :D

So cool. They look like ball jointed dolls.

149 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:46:29pm

re: #144 yasharki

I missed out on GoldenEye, was too busy collecting stars in Mario. Tried out Blood Stone last week, it tries to be Splinter Cell and NFS in the same game, miserably failing at both, it is also poorly ported from a console it seems, controls suck.

Give me Pong, or give me death.

150 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:47:03pm

re: #137 prairiefire

I'm that way with dolls. The conventions for doll collectors are probably not as fun as guitar collectors, I would guess. Kind of hard to get middle aged ladies to stay up late and jam.

I can guarantee you that conventions for doll collectors are way more fun the guitars. Really, how many mullets and shredders can you tolerate till you start in on the one hitter in the bathroom?

151 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:47:15pm

re: #148 prairiefire

So cool. They look like ball jointed dolls.

They are :D They're like 2 foot tall ball jointed dolls

152 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:47:22pm

re: #146 Jeff In Ohio

I have about 20 also. Wouldn't trade a single one for a Les Paul. In 30 years, I've never owned a Les Paul. Never wanted one. Now that telecaster you see in my avatar, I'd have a hard time choosing between that and my wife and kids.

Does it have a fire proof case? I would hate for your folks to go up in smoke./

153 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:48:26pm

re: #152 prairiefire

Does it have a fire proof case? I would hate for your folks to go up in smoke./

Speaking of which, did you hear about Neil Young's storage warehouse going up in flames the other day? Firemen realized what was in there and saved about half the inventory, but over a million dollars worth of memorabilia and guitars were destroyed.

154 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:49:21pm

re: #153 darthstar

Speaking of which, did you hear about Neil Young's storage warehouse going up in flames the other day? Firemen realized what was in there and saved about half the inventory, but over a million dollars worth of memorabilia and guitars were destroyed.

omg...what a shame

155 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:49:31pm

re: #1 Jeff In Ohio

It's all those cows farting.

And pine trees.

156 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:49:53pm

re: #141 WindUpBird

Simple and evil! [Link: www.modernguitars.com...]

I like the through body strings, they tend to increase sustain. I've never been a fan of the flying V, it's a pain to use while sitting down.

157 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:50:55pm

re: #156 b_sharp

I like the through body strings, they tend to increase sustain. I've never been a fan of the flying V, it's a pain to use while sitting down.

Yeah, they really are the sort of thing you brandish on stage more than anything :D

158 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:51:14pm

re: #154 albusteve

omg...what a shame

Yes...fortunately, some fireman said, "Holy shit! Do you realize what's in here?" and they went into a massive evac mode.

159 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:51:33pm

re: #152 prairiefire

Does it have a fire proof case? I would hate for your folks to go up in smoke./

No such thing. Just homeowners insurance. I'll admit, it doesn't never kept me warm, but it's never denied me either.

Yeah, that was creepy.

160 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:51:36pm

re: #142 albusteve

here's a Blonde...be patient

[Video]

Thank you for that.

I could listen to that all day.

161 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:52:50pm

This may be pissing up a rope, but is it maybe worth a try? Any NJ lizards? Write him a letter. Explain some of that "more science". Make it good, clean, short, convincing, witty. Ask him to please give ten minutes open thought to the matter, to read one or two of your links.

Before we declare jihad on him, maybe some dawah?

If he could be won over on this one point, {useless to try to make a California liberal of him} it would be a great boon to the nation.

162 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:52:58pm

re: #153 darthstar

Speaking of which, did you hear about Neil Young's storage warehouse going up in flames the other day? Firemen realized what was in there and saved about half the inventory, but over a million dollars worth of memorabilia and guitars were destroyed.

That's awful, I had not heard. he is a huge train collector with a part interest in Lionel Trains Co.[Link: www.thrasherswheat.org...]

163 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:53:01pm

re: #156 b_sharp

I like the through body strings, they tend to increase sustain. I've never been a fan of the flying V, it's a pain to use while sitting down.

Albert King would agree....you just don't sit with a Flying V

164 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:53:30pm

re: #145 Gus 802

My spoof on Drudge Report.

Image: alexjonesdrudgehybrid.jpg

Nice.

165 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:53:48pm

re: #158 darthstar

Yes...fortunately, some fireman said, "Holy shit! Do you realize what's in here?" and they went into a massive evac mode.

it makes me woozie...I hate that stuff

166 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:54:29pm

re: #162 prairiefire

That's awful, I had not heard. he is a huge train collector with a part interest in Lionel Trains Co.[Link: www.thrasherswheat.org...]

One of my co-workers' husbands worked for Lionel for years, and though he's "officially retired" he still spends a couple of days a week with them...working.

167 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:54:41pm

re: #20 Charles

The point is that no amount of "more science" is going to convince the right wing at this point. Climate change denial is an article of faith. They say they want "more evidence," but it's a lie.

Christie isn't a wingnut, but he does need to keep wingnuts happy with him, so "I'm not sure" was likely the best answer he could give. To have admitted to a belief in AGW would have brought forth cries of "Purge the RINO!".

168 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:55:11pm

re: #160 b_sharp

Thank you for that.

I could listen to that all day.

Charles posted that a year or so back...coolest studio vid ever for us Joe B fans....and he rips his breaks as usual

169 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:55:13pm

re: #155 eclectic infidel

And pine trees.

I hate those pine tree farts. They are the worst. Stinking up a nice walk in the woods. Why, just last week we were deep into a grove of white pine when they let lose. Such a smell.

170 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:55:14pm

re: #161 lostlakehiker

This may be pissing up a rope, but is it maybe worth a try? Any NJ lizards? Write him a letter. Explain some of that "more science". Make it good, clean, short, convincing, witty. Ask him to please give ten minutes open thought to the matter, to read one or two of your links.

Before we declare jihad on him, maybe some dawah?

If he could be won over on this one point, {useless to try to make a California liberal of him} it would be a great boon to the nation.

Doubtlessly worth a try, but I think he needs to explain why he's confused and what kind of proof he wants to see to be convinced, otherwise he might as well have wheels mounted on his goalposts...

171 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:55:54pm

re: #146 Jeff In Ohio

I have about 20 also. Wouldn't trade a single one for a Les Paul. In 30 years, I've never owned a Les Paul. Never wanted one. Now that telecaster you see in my avatar, I'd have a hard time choosing between that and my wife and kids.

I like the Teles, my first electric was a Tele copy. Other than the Teles with chambered bodies, I now find them too bloody heavy.

172 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:56:55pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

Christie isn't a wingnut, but he does need to keep wingnuts happy with him, so "I'm not sure" was likely the best answer he could give. To have admitted to a belief in AGW would have brought forth cries of "Purge the RINO!".

Which if what you are saying is true, means he is promoting and propagating a lie, that he knows to be a lie, that endangers our civilization the lives of everyone on the planet, for his own selfish political gains.

He is either stupid or evil or possibly both. There is no interpretation that makes him a good guy.

173 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:57:26pm

re: #5 albusteve

the new pink...more science means anti-science?...I think it's perfectly understandable that people are skeptical of AGW findings...a lot of work needs to be done...let's make it a national security issue and get serious...it doesn't matter who or what is causing the cooling

Steve, it's understandable that many people are skeptical, but there's no need of any more work to get the basics straight. The science has been done. Carefully, repeatedly, meticulously.

It IS a national security issue, but not because we don't know the cause. What we don't know is how bad we'll be hurt if it goes business as usual. Best case, lose half the GDP. Worst case, God only knows. Extinction? It's not absolutely out of the question. What we also don't know is how to mobilize and do something about it while time remains.

But as with hitting the brakes when collision is imminent, sooner is better. Even if you can't stop entirely, even if it's a wreck no matter what, there's worse wrecks and there's wrecks you walk away from.

174 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:57:44pm

re: #171 b_sharp

I like the Teles, my first electric was a Tele copy. Other than the Teles with chambered bodies, I now find them too bloody heavy.

the Les Paul is notoriously heavy too

175 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:58:56pm

re: #171 b_sharp

I like the Teles, my first electric was a Tele copy. Other than the Teles with chambered bodies, I now find them too bloody heavy.

Heavier the an LP? That blonde one is 7.3 ozs (it's actually white...nicotine stains), my black thinline is not more then 8. Every Paul I've ever picked up seemed at least 10lbs. Heavier then my P-Bass.

I do one one of these in black
[Link: www.metropolitanguitars.com...]
It's LP like. Now that's a show guitar.

176 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 4:59:09pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

Christie isn't a wingnut, but he does need to keep wingnuts happy with him, so "I'm not sure" was likely the best answer he could give. To have admitted to a belief in AGW would have brought forth cries of "Purge the RINO!".

So what? Now you can't win New Jersey without the aid of the Wingnuts?

177 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:00:21pm

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

Christie isn't a wingnut, but he does need to keep wingnuts happy with him, so "I'm not sure" was likely the best answer he could give. To have admitted to a belief in AGW would have brought forth cries of "Purge the RINO!".

But that still doesn't explain fucking over all of the people who live in New Jersey and need to commute to New York City by refusing to help build a new train tunnel.

178 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:00:47pm

re: #176 jamesfirecat

So what? Now you can't win New Jersey without the aid of the Wingnuts?

of course not...the donks and their union pals own NJ

179 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:01:34pm

PRS Custom 22

Image: 000.jpg

180 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:02:08pm

re: #178 albusteve

of course not...the donks and their union pals own NJ

Then how did Christie get elected in the first place?

181 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:02:12pm

re: #179 Gus 802

PRS Custom 22

Image: 000.jpg

Ooh...that's pretty.

182 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:02:12pm

re: #169 Jeff In Ohio

I hate those pine tree farts. They are the worst. Stinking up a nice walk in the woods. Why, just last week we were deep into a grove of white pine when they let lose. Such a smell.

Yeah. Godzilla needs to pick another fight with Hydra and take those trees out!

183 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:02:18pm

re: #177 darthstar

But that still doesn't explain fucking over all of the people who live in New Jersey and need to commute to New York City by refusing to help build a new train tunnel.

what?...how about roller skates, trains use gobs of energy...aren't you a greenie?

184 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:02:58pm

the King...
[Link: www.mylespaul.com...]

185 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:03:13pm

Anybody want to help me come up with parodies of Pamela Geller post titles?

Here's what I have so far:


Stop the Islamization of Our Precious Bodily Fluids Before Its Too Late!!!!!!!

Obummer's Kenyan Grandmother - A Crack Whore?????

Islamic Supremacist Mega Mosque! Islamic Supremacist Mega Mosque!

Milosevic - Misunderstood Hero in the War Against Islamic Supremcists

Barack Soetoro Hussein - Weak Girlyman or Sinister Islamic Puppetmaster????

Release the Long Form Nirth Certificate!!!!!!

Geert Wilders, The Most Interesting Man Alive.......

Filthy Lying Muslim Spreads Evil

English Defence League Patriots Totally Don't Riot At All!!!!

Libel Blogger Charles Johnson Lives in My Head!!!!!

186 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:03:28pm

re: #168 albusteve

Charles posted that a year or so back...coolest studio vid ever for us Joe B fans...and he rips his breaks as usual

I'm on Napster right now, downloading everything they have of his. They'll all be loaded into my Android later tonight.

187 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:03:34pm

re: #172 LudwigVanQuixote

Which if what you are saying is true, means he is promoting and propagating a lie, that he knows to be a lie, that endangers our civilization the lives of everyone on the planet, for his own selfish political gains.

He is either stupid or evil or possibly both. There is no interpretation that makes him a good guy.

I don't agree. I'd say he's doing the smart thing when the witch hunters are out: Stay off their radar till they start to wear out their welcome. He didn't say he does not believe in AGW, and he might not have seen the latest science. I don't think that makes one evil; Dissembling your way past the witch hunters normally makes you smart and a survivor.

188 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:04:02pm

re: #180 jamesfirecat

Then how did Christie get elected in the first place?

the voters turned on their union masters...Christie has done a good job fighting union greed

189 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:04:43pm

re: #183 albusteve

what?...how about roller skates, trains use gobs of energy...aren't you a greenie?

The existing tunnel is over 100 years old. America 100 years ago was capable of putting a transit tunnel in. I suppose we can just wait until the old tunnel collapses or some other kind of disaster and then blame the black guy for not putting a tunnel in when Christie wanted it all along.

190 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:05:19pm

re: #181 darthstar

Ooh...that's pretty.

I used to have one. Had to sell it. Now they cost almost twice the price. About 3 grand. Best solid body electric I ever played. PRS rules.

191 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:05:26pm

re: #186 b_sharp

I'm on Napster right now, downloading everything they have of his. They'll all be loaded into my Android later tonight.

he was a prodigy...extremely talented
we used to rock with Joe on the FNDT's...fun times

192 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:05:42pm

re: #187 Dark_Falcon

I don't agree. I'd say he's doing the smart thing when the witch hunters are out: Stay off their radar till they start to wear out their welcome. He didn't say he does not believe in AGW, and he might not have seen the latest science. I don't think that makes one evil; Dissembling your way past the witch hunters normally makes you smart and a survivor.

How do you feel about Mitt Romney?

If a man does not have the guts to speak his mind, what is he doing in politics?

193 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:05:54pm

re: #174 albusteve

the Les Paul is notoriously heavy too

Yah, I know, but I'm willing to suffer.

194 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:06:14pm

re: #188 albusteve

the voters turned on their union masters...Christie has done a good job fighting union greed

Then why wouldn't they continue to support him if he came out in favor of AGW?

195 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:06:21pm

(Doing my own version of the Shrieking Harpy Rant Generator ... titles are for that...)

196 Ojoe  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:06:37pm

Extra cool evening Towercam with smokey looking clouds. San Gabriel Mountains of California, Pacific time zone

Soon it will all be dark until tomorrow.

197 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:06:59pm

re: #194 jamesfirecat

Then why wouldn't they continue to support him if he came out in favor of AGW?

The Puppet Master has instructed them not too. It's all in the plan.

198 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:08:10pm

re: #185 Charles

Anybody want to help me come up with parodies of Pamela Geller post titles?

Here's what I have so far:

Stop the Islamization of Our Precious Bodily Fluids Before Its Too Late!!!

Obummer's Kenyan Grandmother - A Crack Whore???

Islamic Supremacist Mega Mosque! Islamic Supremacist Mega Mosque!

Milosevic - Misunderstood Hero in the War Against Islamic Supremcists

Barack Soetoro Hussein - Weak Girlyman or Sinister Islamic Puppetmaster???

Release the Long Form Nirth Certificate!!!

Geert Wilders, The Most Interesting Man Alive...

Filthy Lying Muslim Spreads Evil

English Defence League Patriots Totally Don't Riot At All!!!

Libel Blogger Charles Johnson Lives in My Head!!!

Michelle Obama wears a hijab!! Photo graphic proof of the Obama's preference for Sharia!!1

199 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:08:22pm

re: #193 b_sharp

Yah, I know, but I'm willing to suffer.

cool, so were a host of others...check this out

Youtube Video
200 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:08:22pm

re: #175 Jeff In Ohio

Heavier the an LP? That blonde one is 7.3 ozs (it's actually white...nicotine stains), my black thinline is not more then 8. Every Paul I've ever picked up seemed at least 10lbs. Heavier then my P-Bass.

I do one one of these in black
[Link: www.metropolitanguitars.com...]
It's LP like. Now that's a show guitar.

Nice. Does yours have the Bigsby?
I've only played an LP a few times, but I loved the neck. I have a Jackson Fusion that I play when I get the urge to get away from the Strat feel of the rest of my electrics.

201 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:09:42pm

re: #194 jamesfirecat

Then why wouldn't they continue to support him if he came out in favor of AGW?

don't know...maybe they would...the first order of business for Christie is to get re-elected, that trumps all else

202 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:10:08pm

re: #185 Charles

Anybody want to help me come up with parodies of Pamela Geller post titles?


I'm outlived by my breasts and stupid things like that.

Youtube Video
203 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:10:20pm

re: #201 albusteve

don't know...maybe they would...the first order of business for Christie is to get re-elected, that trumps all else

Career politicians suck be they Democrat or Republican.

204 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:10:29pm

re: #179 Gus 802

PRS Custom 22

Image: 000.jpg

OK, now I'm drooling.

The PRS is my second favourite, I love the Santana signature model.

205 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:10:32pm

re: #192 jamesfirecat

How do you feel about Mitt Romney?

If a man does not have the guts to speak his mind, what is he doing in politics?

It's not about guts, its about sense. If you stand up to the witch hunters too soon, the only thing that will happen is that they'll burn you. You have to wait till the crazies weaken. It's a question of tactics and timing.

206 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:10:58pm

re: #181 darthstar

Ooh...that's pretty.

They feel and sound as nice as they look.

207 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:11:06pm

re: #188 albusteve

the voters turned on their union masters...Christie has done a good job fighting union greed

He killed one of the most vital mass transit projects for that area in the past 20 years.

208 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:11:41pm

re: #179 Gus 802

One of my favorite guitarists (jim Matheos of OSI) plays one of those :D

209 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:11:43pm

re: #204 b_sharp

OK, now I'm drooling.

The PRS is my second favourite, I love the Santana signature model.

I can still smell the case if you know what I mean. The Santanas are really nice too.

210 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:11:59pm

re: #201 albusteve

don't know...maybe they would...the first order of business for Christie is to get re-elected, that trumps all else

That's not true. His first priority is to fix New Jersey's budget. He's made clear in both word and deed that that trumps reelection.

211 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:12:02pm

re: #185 Charles

Vile socialist muslim grinch in the crack house steals christmas.

212 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:12:39pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

That's not true. His first priority is to fix New Jersey's budget. He's made clear in both word and deed that that trumps reelection.

That and taking on organized crime.

//

213 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:12:44pm

re: #184 albusteve

the King...
[Link: www.mylespaul.com...]

Yup. I just about bought one 5 years ago, but I fell $2000.00 short. The store wanted $8200.00.

214 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:12:45pm

re: #207 Conservative Moonbat

He killed one of the most vital mass transit projects for that area in the past 20 years.

He felt that New Jersey could not afford the likely cost overruns.

215 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:12:48pm

re: #203 jamesfirecat

Career politicians suck be they Democrat or Republican.

my take as well....we are now like minded brothers

216 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:12:51pm

re: #207 Conservative Moonbat

He killed one of the most vital mass transit projects for that area in the past 20 years.

I guess to some people who hate government, that is a good job!


also only evil smelly slacker hippie poor people ride mass transit, fuck em, get a mercedes you dumb dumb poor person

217 elizajane  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:13:17pm

re: #185 Charles

Anybody want to help me come up with parodies of Pamela Geller post titles?

Here's what I have so far:

Stop the Islamization of Our Precious Bodily Fluids Before Its Too Late!!!

Obummer's Kenyan Grandmother - A Crack Whore???

Islamic Supremacist Mega Mosque! Islamic Supremacist Mega Mosque!

Milosevic - Misunderstood Hero in the War Against Islamic Supremcists

Barack Soetoro Hussein - Weak Girlyman or Sinister Islamic Puppetmaster???
[that one's really good!]


I went to her website to get inspired and honestly, I think all of these were there already!

Really, how can you parody anybody so ridiculous? I couldn't possibly come up with anything more sick than what she writes as serious.

218 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:13:39pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

He felt that New Jersey could not afford the likely cost overruns.

That's bullshit. He would have done it if Bush was president.

219 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:13:40pm

re: #204 b_sharp

I've got one of these. Best guitar I ever owned.

[Link: www.ibanez.com...]

220 Jeff In Ohio  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:13:42pm

re: #200 b_sharp

Nice. Does yours have the Bigsby?
I've only played an LP a few times, but I loved the neck. I have a Jackson Fusion that I play when I get the urge to get away from the Strat feel of the rest of my electrics.

It has an LP style Bigsby - B5, I think. Currently I'm favoring the Martin GT75:

Image: p1_ur54x5nrr_st.jpg

221 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:13:56pm

re: #218 darthstar

That's bullshit. He would have done it if Bush was president.

no shit :D

222 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:14:01pm

re: #207 Conservative Moonbat

He killed one of the most vital mass transit projects for that area in the past 20 years.

I'm sure there are reasons, like union contracts only?...that's a typical one

223 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:14:24pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

It's not about guts, its about sense. If you stand up to the witch hunters too soon, the only thing that will happen is that they'll burn you. You have to wait till the crazies weaken. It's a question of tactics and timing.

Dark... I like you, but you have a bad habit of carrying water for the wrong R's if you ask me....

224 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:15:08pm

re: #210 Dark_Falcon

That's not true. His first priority is to fix New Jersey's budget. He's made clear in both word and deed that that trumps reelection.

wrong...no tunnel is more important than re-election

225 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:15:19pm

re: #221 WindUpBird

no shit :D

Fiscal responsibility is one of the biggest bullshit lies from Republicans trying to make it look like the President isn't doing anything. Thousands of jobs over several years, and long term economic benefits of a new rail line be damned. They're fucking retards.

226 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:15:20pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

It's not about guts, its about sense. If you stand up to the witch hunters too soon, the only thing that will happen is that they'll burn you. You have to wait till the crazies weaken. It's a question of tactics and timing.

So you admit that at the moment your party is in the thrall of the crazies?

I'd suggest you distance yourself more noticeably from them then...

227 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:15:53pm

re: #218 darthstar

That's bullshit. He would have done it if Bush was president.

I think Reagen proved that deficits don't mater....

228 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:16:47pm

re: #227 jamesfirecat

I think Reagen proved that deficits don't mater...

Reagan proved it, Bush 43 proved it. Clinton showed that deficits could be managed. Obama is in a bind and needs to pump up the deficit for another three years before we can start reducing it.

229 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:17:01pm

the greatest intro ever in r/roll history....
Lou Reed
Sweet Jane
tons of vintage guitars and shredding

Youtube Video
230 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:17:28pm

re: #207 Conservative Moonbat

He killed one of the most vital mass transit projects for that area in the past 20 years.

Maybe 100 years because the two tunnels going into Manhattan now are about 100 years old. There it will remain for who know how long. Only two lousy tunnels going in Manhattan from NJ and they sometimes run them each one way during rush hour causing long delays for rail commuters.

231 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:17:38pm

re: #218 darthstar

That's bullshit. He would have done it if Bush was president.

This ought to be good; How do you figure?

232 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:17:46pm

re: #222 albusteve

I'm sure there are reasons, like union contracts only?...that's a typical one

Nope, just didn't want to pay for it despite the economic benefits of a new NJ-Manhattan crossing point and the fact that the feds were going to be paying for half of it.

233 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:17:52pm

re: #229 albusteve

the greatest intro ever in r/roll history...
Lou Reed
Sweet Jane
tons of vintage guitars and shredding


[Video]

I was a Lou Reed addict growing up. I can play this on my air guitar better than anyone.

234 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:18:02pm

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

This ought to be good; How do you figure?

Bush wasn't black.

235 Lidane  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:18:12pm

re: #225 darthstar

Fiscal responsibility is one of the biggest bullshit lies from Republicans trying to make it look like the President isn't doing anything.

It's also complete bullshit if you look at their voting records. Republicans haven't been anything close to fiscal conservatives in decades, but they keep trotting out the same lie in every election and people fall for it.

Honestly, it's like believing that they're actually concerned about the middle class or anyone who isn't white, straight, male, or Christian.

236 albusteve  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:18:28pm

re: #213 b_sharp

Yup. I just about bought one 5 years ago, but I fell $2000.00 short. The store wanted $8200.00.

a blonde 59 LP is the most expensive guitar in the world....there were not that many made...considered to be the King of them all

237 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:18:40pm

re: #227 jamesfirecat

I think Reagen proved that deficits don't mater...

Only now we're learning that the deficit Reagan started does matter.

238 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:18:55pm

re: #234 darthstar

Bush wasn't black.

Dude, you're not making a very good argument here....

239 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:19:15pm

re: #225 darthstar

Fiscal responsibility is one of the biggest bullshit lies from Republicans trying to make it look like the President isn't doing anything. Thousands of jobs over several years, and long term economic benefits of a new rail line be damned. They're fucking retards.

Thank you. I'm sick of Republicans acting like they have some kinda monopoly on fiscal responsibility. It's simply not true at all.

240 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:20:20pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Hmmm, they aren't using the creepy Puppet Master graphic from last night anymore.

They probably ripped that graphic off from Alex Jones as well, then later decided it was best to ditch it.
/speculation

241 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:20:26pm

re: #225 darthstar

Fiscal responsibility is one of the biggest bullshit lies from Republicans trying to make it look like the President isn't doing anything. Thousands of jobs over several years, and long term economic benefits of a new rail line be damned. They're fucking retards.

there are still many republicans who believe that their party is serious about balancing the budget and fiscal responsibility, despite the decades of evidence

242 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:20:53pm

re: #226 jamesfirecat

So you admit that at the moment your party is in the thrall of the crazies?

I'd suggest you distance yourself more noticeably from them then...

The crazies don't run the party, but they are powerful enough that anyone who draws their ire will spend all of his or her time trying to keep their position.

Nor can Chris Christie switch parties, since his budget cuts mean that the Democratic base now hates him. He can only be a Republican, which means he has to get along within the party.

243 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:21:04pm

re: #238 jamesfirecat

Dude, you're not making a very good argument here...

I'd might as well argue with a brick. People who think Christie's motives were purely the result of his concern over money are deluding themselves. I like DF...he's a decent fellow. But he's a lost cause when it comes to discussing partisan behavior.

244 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:21:23pm

re: #219 Conservative Moonbat

I've got one of these. Best guitar I ever owned.

[Link: www.ibanez.com...]

I have this one with a piezo bridge.

245 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:21:38pm

re: #214 Dark_Falcon

He felt that New Jersey could not afford the likely cost overruns.

Man, a thing I notice.

Strange how mass transit is

ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS

on the chopping block when Republicans run things!


In fact, we got local Republicans in Portland who are on the radio every single day slinging their shit about how evil and terrible our mass transit system is! Every single day. Thankfully in my town, those guys have no power and they're routinely mocked for advocating screwing up our town, and we still get our hippie mass transit system that makes our city better and wins us accolades nationwide

Government doesn't work because we chose the most critical parts of our infrastructure to sabotage derp de derp!

246 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:21:57pm

re: #234 darthstar

Bush wasn't black.

What does that have to do with anything? Christie isn't a racist.

247 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:22:03pm

re: #195 Charles

How about this: Renowned scholars Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller deliver a keynote at skinhead convention.

248 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:22:26pm

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

This ought to be good; How do you figure?

Because GOP ideology is anti-mass transit. Period.

249 Lidane  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:22:28pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

The crazies don't run the party, but they are powerful enough that anyone who draws their ire will spend all of his or her time trying to keep their position.

That implies that they do, in fact, run the party. If they weren't that powerful, the elected officials in the GOP wouldn't give a shit about their opinions, or spend any time at all trying to coddle them.

250 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:22:38pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

Nor can Chris Christie switch parties, since his budget cuts mean that the Democratic base now hates him. He can only be a Republican, which means he has to get along within the party.


People stuck in traffic for hours because there isn't enough mass transit available to them don't give a shit about whether their governor is a Republican or Democrat. They just want to be able to get to work and back home in a reasonable amount of time.

251 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:22:40pm

re: #220 Jeff In Ohio

It has an LP style Bigsby - B5, I think. Currently I'm favoring the Martin GT75:

Image: p1_ur54x5nrr_st.jpg

The GT75 is a new one on me. Nice looking axe. How does it sound?

252 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:23:13pm

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

The crazies don't run the party, but they are powerful enough that anyone who draws their ire will spend all of his or her time trying to keep their position.

Nor can Chris Christie switch parties, since his budget cuts mean that the Democratic base now hates him. He can only be a Republican, which means he has to get along within the party.

"The crazies don't run the party, but they are powerful enough that anyone who draws their ire will spend all of his or her time trying to keep their position."

Not to Godwin myself but wasn't this exactly the situation that the Nazis had in German circa 1933?

Also Dark, why doesn't he just do what's right and get voted out of office if the public is too crazy to vote for what is good for them?

253 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:23:17pm

Also, conservative radio talkers in Portland are constantly trashing bike lanes and bicyclists.

Good times! More money for Saudis!

254 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:23:34pm

re: #246 Dark_Falcon

What does that have to do with anything? Christie isn't a racist.

You're right...let me change that. Bush wasn't a Democrat. Christie is playing politics with the people of New Jersey.

255 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:24:00pm

re: #243 darthstar

I'd might as well argue with a brick. People who think Christie's motives were purely the result of his concern over money are deluding themselves. I like DF...he's a decent fellow. But he's a lost cause when it comes to discussing partisan behavior.

You haven't even explained what you think his motives are. How can I even respond to you if I don't know what you're trying to say.

256 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:24:05pm

re: #250 darthstar

People stuck in traffic for hours because there isn't enough mass transit available to them don't give a shit about whether their governor is a Republican or Democrat. They just want to be able to get to work and back home in a reasonable amount of time.

Or people who literally can't afford a car who depend on it period! Which was a lot of my coworkers. Who literally would not be working with me were it not for light rail here.

257 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:24:06pm

re: #253 WindUpBird

Also, conservative radio talkers in Portland are constantly trashing bike lanes and bicyclists.

Good times! More money for Saudis!

I ♥ OPEC

258 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:24:29pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

You haven't even explained what you think his motives are. How can I even respond to you if I don't know what you're trying to say.

Repeated for emphasis:

Because GOP ideology is anti-mass transit. Period.

259 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:25:05pm

re: #256 WindUpBird

Or people who literally can't afford a car who depend on it period! Which was a lot of my coworkers. Who literally would not be working with me were it not for light rail here.

Shit, I can't imagine how bad DC would be if it didn't have Metro. The sheer thought of all those tourists driving in to the city. Never been to your city but I really appreciate Metro despite its flaws here.

260 darthstar  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:25:12pm

Okay...time to take a break from the internets...play nice everyone.

261 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:25:18pm

re: #185 Charles

Anybody want to help me come up with parodies of Pamela Geller post titles?

Here's what I have so far:

Stop the Islamization of Our Precious Bodily Fluids Before Its Too Late!!!

Obummer's Kenyan Grandmother - A Crack Whore???

Islamic Supremacist Mega Mosque! Islamic Supremacist Mega Mosque!

Milosevic - Misunderstood Hero in the War Against Islamic Supremcists

Barack Soetoro Hussein - Weak Girlyman or Sinister Islamic Puppetmaster???

Release the Long Form Nirth Certificate!!!

Geert Wilders, The Most Interesting Man Alive...

Filthy Lying Muslim Spreads Evil

English Defence League Patriots Totally Don't Riot At All!!!

Libel Blogger Charles Johnson Lives in My Head!!!

"The ONe" rapEs Donkey to prove Jewicidal intent To [bigoted word] masters in Sharia ritual!!!

262 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:25:22pm

re: #236 albusteve

a blonde 59 LP is the most expensive guitar in the world...there were not that many made...considered to be the King of them all

It wasn't a 59, and it was gold. I would never be able to afford a Blonde 59.

263 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:25:58pm

re: #247 yasharki

How about this: Renowned scholars Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller deliver a keynote at skinhead convention and then body surf the mosh pit.

something like that

264 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:26:29pm

re: #233 darthstar

I was a Lou Reed addict growing up. I can play this on my air guitar better than anyone.

Transistor radio under my pillow at night, waiting for Maggie Mae, Lola, and Sweet Jane.

265 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:26:47pm

re: #257 Gus 802

I ♥ OPEC

Taxing gas? Can't have that! No, subsidize it more! Make sure we're behilden to the middle east for the next 100 years!

266 Lidane  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:27:04pm

re: #258 WindUpBird

Repeated for emphasis:

Because GOP ideology is anti-mass transit. Period.

I will never, ever understand that. What is so wrong with having buses and light rail to help people commute to and from work?

Hell, I wish they'd up and fix/modernize Amtrak. I'd love to have a European-style national rail system in this country. I'd travel a hell of a lot more often if that was the case.

267 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:27:32pm

re: #265 WindUpBird

Taxing gas? Can't have that! No, subsidize it more! Make sure we're behilden to the middle east for the next 100 years!

Gasoline isn't subsidized!

/

268 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:28:03pm

re: #240 Slumbering Behemoth

They probably ripped that graphic off from Alex Jones as well, then later decided it was best to ditch it.
/speculation

I'm starting to wonder again about Fox's legal liabilities. George Soros is well protected but all those little groups that Beck names as part of the vast conspiracy don't have security or armed guards. After watching this week's shows there's no doubt in my mind what's going to happen. I'm sure Fox lawyers have approved all this stuff so I suppose they are legally safe. I'm also starting to wonder about Beck's motives. I always thought of him as just cashing in on the conspiracy stuff but it's really starting to look like he's trying to get people killed.

269 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:28:31pm

re: #266 Lidane

I will never, ever understand that. What is so wrong with having buses and light rail to help people commute to and from work?

It was proposed as a solution by greenies and earth muffins.

270 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:28:31pm

re: #266 Lidane

I will never, ever understand that. What is so wrong with having buses and light rail to help people commute to and from work?

Hell, I wish they'd up and fix/modernize Amtrak. I'd love to have a European-style national rail system in this country. I'd travel a hell of a lot more often if that was the case.

I drive 70 miles one way to work every day. I'd love to get that 2 1/2 hours back every day to read, work or whatever on a train.

271 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:28:47pm

re: #246 Dark_Falcon

What does that have to do with anything? Christie isn't a racist.

Sure he is... he's a conservative.

272 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:29:02pm

re: #266 Lidane

I will never, ever understand that. What is so wrong with having buses and light rail to help people commute to and from work?

Hell, I wish they'd up and fix/modernize Amtrak. I'd love to have a European-style national rail system in this country. I'd travel a hell of a lot more often if that was the case.

If they're anti-government and pro oil industry, then it's doubly against their interests to advocate for spending less on gas and spending tax dollars making it so people can more efficiently commute and travel.

273 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:29:18pm

re: #268 Killgore Trout

I'm starting to wonder again about Fox's legal liabilities. George Soros is well protected but all those little groups that Beck names as part of the vast conspiracy don't have security or armed guards. After watching this week's shows there's no doubt in my mind what's going to happen. I'm sure Fox lawyers have approved all this stuff so I suppose they are legally safe. I'm also starting to wonder about Beck's motives. I always thought of him as just cashing in on the conspiracy stuff but it's really starting to look like he's trying to get people killed.

True. Let's not forget about the potential TIDEs shooter who is said to have been influenced by Glenn Beck.

274 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:29:59pm

re: #266 Lidane

I will never, ever understand that. What is so wrong with having buses and light rail to help people commute to and from work?

Hell, I wish they'd up and fix/modernize Amtrak. I'd love to have a European-style national rail system in this country. I'd travel a hell of a lot more often if that was the case.

I don't get it either. It's a good way for people to you know save money. I don't drive but even if I did, I would still use the bus system here in town since it's free for students. And I absolutely agree with you about Amtrak. Would love for us to have a European style railsystem where people could travel with ease.

275 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:30:20pm

re: #185 Charles

For Pam headlines...

How about...

"My neW BOObs are better than Malkin's."

"First wookKie Michelle Antoinette Dresses like Commie Crack HO!"

or

"Fox won't Call me back because they are [bigoted word]s."

276 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:30:30pm

re: #270 PT Barnum

I drive 70 miles one way to work every day. I'd love to get that 2 1/2 hours back every day to read, work or whatever on a train.

I drive from 2.25 to 6 hrs a day, depending on which customer I'm scheduled to see. I'm going to trade my cars in for a helicopter.

277 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:30:33pm

re: #274 HappyWarrior

I don't get it either. It's a good way for people to you know save money. I don't drive but even if I did, I would still use the bus system here in town since it's free for students. And I absolutely agree with you about Amtrak. Would love for us to have a European style railsystem where people could travel with ease.


Can't have that! Gotta starve the beast!

278 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:30:51pm

re: #276 b_sharp

I drive from 2.25 to 6 hrs a day, depending on which customer I'm scheduled to see. I'm going to trade my cars in for a helicopter.

Yow. mindboggling o_o

279 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:30:59pm

re: #261 LudwigVanQuixote

"The ONe" rapEs Donkey to prove Jewicidal intent To [bigoted word] masters in Sharia ritual!!!

Jewish Traitor Dhimmis defy EDL Patriots by openly celebrating Hanuka instead of Christmas.

280 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:31:31pm

Progressive Hunter

Youtube Video

In exclusive jailhouse audio obtained by Media Matters, Byron Williams, the man who allegedly intended to violently assault the progressive Tides Foundation, lays out his thoughts on Glenn Beck. He recounts how he considered Beck to be like a "schoolteacher" for him, and he echoes many of Beck's most misinformed conspiracy theories.

281 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:31:48pm

re: #270 PT Barnum

I drive 70 miles one way to work every day. I'd love to get that 2 1/2 hours back every day to read, work or whatever on a train.

A friend of mine who drives a lot to see people in his social work job, he does a lot of books on tape and podcasts, says it keeps him from roadraging :D

282 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:32:28pm

re: #268 Killgore Trout

I'm starting to wonder again about Fox's legal liabilities. George Soros is well protected but all those little groups that Beck names as part of the vast conspiracy don't have security or armed guards. After watching this week's shows there's no doubt in my mind what's going to happen. I'm sure Fox lawyers have approved all this stuff so I suppose they are legally safe. I'm also starting to wonder about Beck's motives. I always thought of him as just cashing in on the conspiracy stuff but it's really starting to look like he's trying to get people killed.

I agree. He's so far over the top he's exposed himself to liability if/when someone acts on his incitement. Especially since there are well-documented cases already in which people were inspired to commit violence by his insane ranting.

283 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:32:55pm

re: #273 Gus 802

True. Let's not forget about the potential TIDEs shooter who is said to have been influenced by Glenn Beck.

That was a lucky escape. It also seems to have inspired Beck. He's stepped up his rhetoric since then.

284 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:33:14pm

re: #278 WindUpBird

Yow. mindboggling o_o

I'm finally changing my focus to more at home aspects of the job, like managing home email servers and using RPC whenever I can.

Now if I could figure out how to wire a network from a distance ....

285 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:33:15pm

re: #252 jamesfirecat

Also Dark, why doesn't he just do what's right and get voted out of office if the public is too crazy to vote for what is good for them?

Because nothing gets done if you do that, James. In order to succeed in fixing the Garden State's finances, Christie has to retain leverage and negotiating power with the legislature. If he just does what he thinks he should do and neglects the needs of his coalition, then the Democrats will simply dig in their heels and try to wait him out. He needs to retain his base of support and in politics that often means helping people you don't like.

286 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:33:17pm

re: #268 Killgore Trout

Well when he starts some of his conspiracy mongering rants with "Watch, if [target being demonized] gets hurt, THEY are gonna blame me", or some such like that, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet he knows exactly what kind of shit he's trying to whip up.

287 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:33:43pm

re: #281 WindUpBird

A friend of mine who drives a lot to see people in his social work job, he does a lot of books on tape and podcasts, says it keeps him from roadraging :D

But roadraging is fun.

288 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:33:44pm

re: #277 WindUpBird

Can't have that! Gotta starve the beast!

Yeah, it's stupid. Seriously, there are so many good things that could come out of increased mass transit. I simply don't understand this parat of the ideology at all. I mean some people are gonna have to drive but if you can cut down the number of drivers on the road and thus decrease traffic that would be great.

289 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:34:13pm

re: #195 Charles

With your [bigoted words] filter, the crazy Pam titles are even better.

One last one:

Nazi Dhimmi Obuamunists condemn girl to death!

290 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:34:42pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

Because nothing gets done if you do that, James. In order to succeed in fixing the Garden State's finances, Christie has to retain leverage and negotiating power with the legislature. If he just does what he thinks he should do and neglects the needs of his coalition, then the Democrats will simply dig in their heels and try to wait him out. He needs to retain his base of support and in politics that often means helping people you don't like.



Sorry Dark.

I prefer the method that Obama has stated, you go in, you do what you can, and what you think is right, and if you don't get relected thems the breaks.

You can work with people you don't like, but you shouldn't say things you don't believe just to improve your chacnes of getting elected...

291 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:34:51pm

re: #282 Charles

I agree. He's so far over the top he's exposed himself to liability if/when someone acts on his incitement. Especially since there are well-documented cases already in which people were inspired to commit violence by his insane ranting.

What about that League Of Women Voters debate moderator who received death threats after being targeted by Beck?[Link: www.rawstory.com...]
He's a shit.

292 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:35:21pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

Jewish Traitor Dhimmis defy EDL Patriots by openly celebrating Hanuka instead of Christmas.

LOL

Pan GeLLAR AutoBIoggraffy. "I can't Poe myself!"

293 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:36:21pm
Within hours of winning, new Tea Party governors in Ohio and Wisconsin announced they’d follow through with promises to kill two rapid transit rail projects — for which funds already existed — to the tune of about 13,000 potential jobs lost.

it's just the budget. RIGHT, Dark falcon. has nothing to do with ideology whatsoever.

294 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:36:25pm

re: #291 prairiefire

What about that League Of Women Voters debate moderator who received death threats after being targeted by Beck?[Link: www.rawstory.com...]
He's a shit.

People have to stop taking that adolescent in a man meat suit seriously.

295 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:36:48pm

re: #287 b_sharp

But roadraging is fun.

I kicked the habit years ago, just wasn't worth it. Too many migraines and knotted muscles.

296 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:37:30pm

re: #290 jamesfirecat

Sorry Dark.

I prefer the method that Obama has stated, you go in, you do what you can, and what you think is right, and if you don't get relected thems the breaks.

You can work with people you don't like, but you shouldn't say things you don't believe just to improve your chances of getting elected...

But in Christie's case, if he creates serious internal opposition then he won't be able to do anything. He'd just flail around ineffectually and then be bounced out of office.

297 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:37:44pm

re: #295 Slumbering Behemoth

I kicked the habit years ago, just wasn't worth it. Too many migraines and knotted muscles.

I glued a pillow to my steering wheel air bag.

298 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:37:53pm

re: #287 b_sharp

But roadraging is fun.

The closest I get to road raging is just passing slow drivers with extreme prejudice, because it's fun to punch it and zoom around them :D I never really get the road rage thing.

299 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:38:19pm

Try this for a laugh:

[prompt]$ (wget http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/ -O foo.bar; grep h3 foo.bar | awk -F\> '{print $3}' | awk -F\< '{print $1}' | tr ' ' '\n' | sort | uniq )

Should provide plenty of input for harpy blog generator.

300 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:38:32pm

re: #296 Dark_Falcon

But in Christie's case, if he creates serious internal opposition then he won't be able to do anything. He'd just flail around ineffectually and then be bounced out of office.

He still beclowns himself with statements like this, if nothing else.

I feel sorry for you that your party forces people to say such stupid things to have a chance at being elected.

301 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:38:49pm

re: #282 Charles

I agree. He's so far over the top he's exposed himself to liability if/when someone acts on his incitement. Especially since there are well-documented cases already in which people were inspired to commit violence by his insane ranting.

It makes me think he wants to martyr himself somehow, he wants to get arrested to energize his "movement."

302 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:39:08pm

re: #293 WindUpBird

it's just the budget. RIGHT, Dark falcon. has nothing to do with ideology whatsoever.

That I don't understand. But then again, I'm pro-mass transit. I have to be, since I don't drive.

303 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:39:45pm

re: #301 Conservative Moonbat

It makes me think he wants to martyr himself somehow, he wants to get arrested to energize his "movement."

I'm not sure if that's what he really wants, but that's exactly how he's gonna play it if it happens.

304 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:40:02pm

re: #288 HappyWarrior

Yeah, it's stupid. Seriously, there are so many good things that could come out of increased mass transit. I simply don't understand this parat of the ideology at all. I mean some people are gonna have to drive but if you can cut down the number of drivers on the road and thus decrease traffic that would be great.

it's more of that sabotage ideology. It's unambiguously a GOOD THING to have a solid mass transit network. But it's against the interests of the guys writing the checks for the party, so commuters get the shaft.

305 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:40:11pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

RINO!
/

306 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:40:38pm

re: #300 jamesfirecat

He still beclowns himself with statements like this, if nothing else.

I feel sorry for you that your party forces people to say such stupid things to have a chance at being elected.

I agree... nothing like the other party who's members just say stupid things with out any internal pressure. Big difference.

307 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:40:40pm

re: #298 WindUpBird

The closest I get to road raging is just passing slow drivers with extreme prejudice, because it's fun to punch it and zoom around them :D I never really get the road rage thing.

I do that and give them the 'you're an asshole' look as I go by. I even have the wife calling them dumb-asses for me. LOL.

I've only confronted two people, one locked his door and raised his window, and the other took off and lead a merry chase for a couple of miles.

308 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:41:31pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

That I don't understand. But then again, I'm pro-mass transit. I have to be, since I don't drive.

///A real conservative man who doesn't drive will just walk to work, uphill, BOTH WAYS!

309 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:41:59pm

re: #282 Charles

I agree. He's so far over the top he's exposed himself to liability if/when someone acts on his incitement. Especially since there are well-documented cases already in which people were inspired to commit violence by his insane ranting.

That's what makes me wonder. The Tides assassination attempt has already been linked directly to Beck's incitement. The Fox lawyers are aware of that but they're still approving increasingly hysterical rhetoric. They must feel they can beat the case.

310 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:42:22pm

re: #300 jamesfirecat

He still beclowns himself with statements like this, if nothing else.

I feel sorry for you that your party forces people to say such stupid things to have a chance at being elected.

Democrats tend to be forced to throw huge amounts of money at schools without accountability for results, so its not just the GOP. If Republicans are hostage to wingnuts, the Democrats are hostage to public sector unions.

311 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:42:22pm

re: #304 WindUpBird

it's more of that sabotage ideology. It's unambiguously a GOOD THING to have a solid mass transit network. But it's against the interests of the guys writing the checks for the party, so commuters get the shaft.


Yeah it's just total crap. I am just trying to imagine how bad DC would be without hte Metro and bus system. Would be awful since there's probably at least a million people who work in that city on a given day and of course the tourists form all over the world that visit too. Even if I did drive, I'd still take the metro to get in to DC each time.

312 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:42:36pm

re: #306 Walter L. Newton

I agree... nothing like the other party who's members just say stupid things with out any internal pressure. Big difference.

Who is more pathetic, an honest fool, or the man who must pretend to be an idiot so as to win the respect and admiration of idiots?

313 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:42:44pm

re: #308 jamesfirecat

///A real conservative man who doesn't drive will just walk to work, uphill, BOTH WAYS!

As long as the rock they push is almost unmovable.

314 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:43:06pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

That I don't understand. But then again, I'm pro-mass transit. I have to be, since I don't drive.

This isn't a budget thing, it's not normal austerity, it's not a coincidence. It's what the GOP wants, always. They want to kill it here in Portland! Where any Republican running for state legislature would be laughed out of their district if they supported dismantling or reducing service on the MAx.

Population is growing, we either grow our transit infrastructure and spend the money like adults because we know for a fact that our growth will necessitate greater transit burdens or we wind up shooting ourselves in the foot.

Just one of the reasons I'm not a Republican. :P

315 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:43:08pm

re: #292 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL

Pan GeLLAR AutoBIoggraffy. "I can't Poe myself!"

*Snort.*

316 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:43:17pm

OK OK here is a LArry AKA Snork AKA IaPx AKA My Little pony generator:

(Note these are all the same person).

Thread Posted by Iapyx

Ludwig is so dumb he wrote: [insert misquote]. Everyone knows that water does not expand when it gets hotter!

Responded to by MLP

He is no physicist! I would like just once to see him explain something!

Responded to by Snork

Yeah he is a lab janitor - Ice is less dense than water! Explain that! [Then posts the curve of density without noticing that above 4 degrees water expands with temp and misses that point.]

Responded to by Iapyx.

He should look at that graph I wonder if Charles is OK with this?

317 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:43:17pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

Democrats tend to be forced to throw huge amounts of money at schools without accountability for results, so its not just the GOP. If Republicans are hostage to wingnuts, the Democrats are hostage to public sector unions.

So you feel we're over financing our school system at the moment?

318 Velvet Elvis  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:43:28pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

That I don't understand. But then again, I'm pro-mass transit. I have to be, since I don't drive.

Sorry. You're a Republican. You're required to drive a truck.

319 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:43:36pm

re: #302 Dark_Falcon

That I don't understand. But then again, I'm pro-mass transit. I have to be, since I don't drive.

I don't drive either. Wish there were more in your party that thought the way you did. as I said, the major cities of this country would be chaotic as hell without mass transit systems.

320 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:44:01pm

re: #309 Killgore Trout

That's what makes me wonder. The Tides assassination attempt has already been linked directly to Beck's incitement. The Fox lawyers are aware of that but they're still approving increasingly hysterical rhetoric. They must feel they can beat the case.

Or that the blame will fall entirely on Beck, with Fox able to to toss him quickly under the bus in the event of violence.

321 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:44:31pm

re: #320 Dark_Falcon

Or that the blame will fall entirely on Beck, with Fox able to to toss him quickly under the bus in the event of violence.

That could be.

322 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:44:42pm

re: #319 HappyWarrior

I don't drive either. Wish there were more in your party that thought the way you did. as I said, the major cities of this country would be chaotic as hell without mass transit systems.

/Maybe that's it? Honest to goodness Republicans only come from small town America where they don't need buses or trains since you can walk everywhere!

323 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:45:54pm

re: #319 HappyWarrior

I don't drive either. Wish there were more in your party that thought the way you did. as I said, the major cities of this country would be chaotic as hell without mass transit systems.

In the Chicago area, we've had commuter rail since the 1880's. It's not a controversial thing.

324 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:46:18pm

re: #321 Killgore Trout

That could be.

I am sure they have a squadron on lawyers just for him.

325 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:46:40pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

Democrats tend to be forced to throw huge amounts of money at schools without accountability for results, so its not just the GOP. If Republicans are hostage to wingnuts, the Democrats are hostage to public sector unions.

I'd far far rather have some unusually fat union workers than outright sabotage of basic infrastructure spending which i will feel implicitly every day. Without a doubt.


There was this thing about OMG union bus drivers here are making $100,000 a year! And that was a conservative meme here in Portland. And then if you read the story, it was discovered that those $100,000 trimet drivers are working insane overtime. So basically one guy doing two guys' worth of driving.

326 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:46:55pm

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

In the Chicago area, we've had commuter rail since the 1880's. It's not a controversial thing.

That's good. It's more newer here in the DC area. I think my grandfather when my dad was a kid in the 50's and 60's was driving to work.

327 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:46:57pm

re: #317 jamesfirecat

So you feel we're over financing our school system at the moment?

No. I feel that they are not properly run. The teacher's unions demand large sums but resist all attempts at accountability.

328 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:46:58pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

Blaming the teacher's unions is a really, really, really, really lame thing to do, as a desperation tu quoque.

Please stop it.

329 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:47:12pm

One last one

Pam headline:

Partriot arrested by Dhimmi governemt for cleaansing American town of [bigoted word] Filth!

330 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:48:00pm

re: #323 Dark_Falcon

In the Chicago area, we've had commuter rail since the 1880's. It's not a controversial thing.

See, but you're in Chicago.

In Ohio and Wisconsin your party DOES consider it a controversial thing. All over the country your party is trying to kill mass transit. The reason they don't in Chicago is because it's been around for 120 years.

331 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:48:33pm

Progressive ideals become the norm once they are implemented.

332 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:48:52pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

Democrats tend to be forced to throw huge amounts of money at schools without accountability for results, so its not just the GOP. If Republicans are hostage to wingnuts, the Democrats are hostage to public sector unions.

but rather i think the republicans are hostage to big businesss, and if democrats are "hostage" to public sector unions, i don't know why that would be a bad thing

policemen, firemen, teachers, civil infrastructure workers, deserve a good deal. we stiff them at our peril

333 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:49:01pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon

No. I feel that they are not properly run. The teacher's unions demand large sums but resist all attempts at accountability.

You never seem to mention tophevay administration when you talk about schools.

Why is that?

Is it just not as sexy as blaming teachers?

334 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:49:03pm

re: #329 LudwigVanQuixote

One last one

Pam headline:

Partriot arrested by Dhimmi governemt for cleaansing American town of [bigoted word] Filth!

You sure seem to be using a lot of [bigoted words] on this thread. You're not turning racist on us, are you Ludwig?
///

335 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:49:22pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon

No. I feel that they are not properly run. The teacher's unions demand large sums but resist all attempts at accountability.

D_F, it sounds like you've swallowed it whole.

Have you looked for a rich teacher?

336 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:49:27pm

Good evening Lizards! What up?

337 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:49:54pm

re: #332 engineer dog

but rather i think the republicans are hostage to big businesss, and if democrats are "hostage" to public sector unions, i don't know why that would be a bad thing

policemen, firemen, teachers, civil infrastructure workers, deserve a good deal. we stiff them at our peril

Yeah, that's what we need: No firefighter union! No police union! No teacher's union! That'll somehow make more sense

338 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:50:19pm

re: #336 HoosierHoops

Good evening Lizards! What up?

Everything that shouldn't be and nothing that should be.

339 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:50:56pm

re: #334 Slumbering Behemoth

You sure seem to be using a lot of [bigoted words] on this thread. You're not turning racist on us, are you Ludwig?
///

If nasty, savage, ignorant morons are counted as a "race" then I am proudly so.

340 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:51:05pm

re: #322 jamesfirecat

/Maybe that's it? Honest to goodness Republicans only come from small town America where they don't need buses or trains since you can walk everywhere!

Haha, yeah it's bizzare. Honestly, the good thing about the bus and metro for all their warts is I can listen to my iPod on there. Can't do that while driving. I mean I could but with my attention span, you'd be looking at a wrecked car.

341 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:51:12pm

re: #335 b_sharp

D_F, it sounds like you've swallowed it whole.

Have you looked for a rich teacher?

I had a rich teacher!

because he was independently wealthy from real estate. So he could literally afford to teach for nothing. And he did! And he was one of the best teachers I ever had.

342 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:51:25pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon

Please stop, Dark.

The teacher's union 'demands large sums of money'?

An average mathematics teacher's salary in Chicago, Illinois, is $38,211

Is that a huge, unreasonable salary?

343 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:51:32pm

re: #310 Dark_Falcon

shakes head.

344 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:51:39pm

re: #338 b_sharp

Everything that shouldn't be and nothing that should be.

Given sufficient thrust pigs will fly just fine

345 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:51:44pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon

No. I feel that they are not properly run. The teacher's unions demand large sums but resist all attempts at accountability.

So the democrats giving money to a good cause that might misspend that money slightly is the same as Republicans witholding money from one of the most important causes that faces us as a nation (doing something about Global Warming)


Dark this is a weak argument, you have to know it....

346 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:52:27pm

re: #344 HoosierHoops

Youtube Video
347 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:52:30pm

re: #327 Dark_Falcon

No. I feel that they are not properly run. The teacher's unions demand large sums but resist all attempts at accountability.

i am constantly astonished that the gop has chosen teacher's unions as the Powerful Source of All Evil

i guess they must be the ones that lost all that pension and investment money in 2008, and are holding back job creation

348 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:52:39pm

re: #344 HoosierHoops

Given sufficient thrust pigs will fly just fine

Beans and cabbage.

349 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:52:45pm

re: #334 Slumbering Behemoth

You sure seem to be using a lot of [bigoted words] on this thread. You're not turning racist on us, are you Ludwig?
///

//Course not every good Stalker knows he already is!

350 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:53:55pm

re: #335 b_sharp

D_F, it sounds like you've swallowed it whole.

Have you looked for a rich teacher?

Oh yeah, i had one other rich teacher, the giant-brained wife of some high-powered dude (I think he was a lawyer? can't remember) who had two advanced degrees, super-intellectual, worked us like dogs, and taught jr. high because she loved it. Also one of the best teachers I've ever had, and really held me to a high standard. Got a couple Ds in her civics classes, got pissed, talked to her, she put me in my place, I got a couple As, and it felt SO GOOD

351 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:54:32pm

re: #342 Obdicut

Please stop, Dark.

The teacher's union 'demands large sums of money'?

An average mathematics teacher's salary in Chicago, Illinois, is $38,211

Is that a huge, unreasonable salary?

That teacher is literally a thousandaire!

352 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:54:45pm

re: #348 b_sharp

Beans and cabbage.

That's how you get bulls to fly, anyway.

353 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:55:47pm

re: #351 WindUpBird

Why, they can probably afford to live in one of the dangerous neighborhoods and drive a five year old car, while they pay for students' supplies out of their own pockets!

I don't know why everyone doesn't become a teacher. After all, the Teacher's Union demands large amounts of money. It's a cakewalk!

354 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:55:47pm

re: #347 engineer dog

i am constantly astonished that the gop has chosen teacher's unions as the Powerful Source of All Evil

i guess they must be the ones that lost all that pension and investment money in 2008, and are holding back job creation

goes with the anti climate change stuff, attack the smart people first, attack the educators, go after the brain trust, go after intellectuals, go after scientists, demonize the very notion of intellectual curiosity

"The first thing we do is we kill all the lawyers..."

355 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:56:06pm

re: #350 WindUpBird

Sounds like a case of child abuse.

356 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:56:15pm

re: #335 b_sharp

D_F, it sounds like you've swallowed it whole.

Have you looked for a rich teacher?

I've said this before, I have a great friend who is a special ed teacher. I have never seen anyone so dedicated and hard working (she cannot miss a day easily, and works over the allotted frame of hours)

She's not rich.

SFZ has attested to the work of teachers as well.

That the GOP picks on the teachers and the teacher's union is the problem is so blindly shallow and ignorant.

They should pick on the cop and prison guard unions. Those folks make their huge living on overtime.

Gah!

357 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:56:27pm

re: #333 WindUpBird

You never seem to mention tophevay administration when you talk about schools.

Why is that?

Is it just not as sexy as blaming teachers?

It's a clear issue, true. I tend to lead with it on other issues though. But it is a very serious problem.

In Chicago, the management structure at the CTA grew so top-heavy that the union (in what I will credit as a good action by a labor union) refused deferral of raises, preferring job cuts that hit both them and management. Many in the union saw it as the only way to force the reduction of a bloated management. Most of those management jobs were patronage, but its Chicago, so that's to be expected.

358 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:57:01pm

re: #352 Slumbering Behemoth

That's how you get bulls to fly, anyway.

That is so cool. I want that in my back yard.

359 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:57:32pm
The highest reported income for a history teacher in Chicago is $53,106.

That bastard! He makes about ten k a year less than I did in my last job, and probably only worked twice as hard as I did while having to deal with a thousand times the stress level! Damn him and his large amounts of money!

360 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:58:18pm

re: #353 Obdicut

Why, they can probably afford to live in one of the dangerous neighborhoods and drive a five year old car, while they pay for students' supplies out of their own pockets!

I don't know why everyone doesn't become a teacher. After all, the Teacher's Union demands large amounts of money. It's a cakewalk!

Oh man! Sign me up! I totally want to earn like half of what I earn making little video game dudes move across a screen while smoking weed! And then be accountable and powerless to angry conservatives and top-heavy administration and also my students are from poor neighborhoods and don't take their subjects seriously because they have absentee parents!

And I get blamed for them as well! What a great career!

Greedy teachers! Someone learn 'em some American Pie Manners!


*ahem*

361 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:58:55pm

re: #357 Dark_Falcon

How high should a math teacher's salary be, Dark? In Chicago? As an average?

362 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:59:10pm

re: #359 Obdicut

That bastard! He makes about ten k a year less than I did in my last job, and probably only worked twice as hard as I did while having to deal with a thousand times the stress level! Damn him and his large amounts of money!

I think you need more cow be sarcasm.

363 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:59:12pm

re: #359 Obdicut

That bastard! He makes about ten k a year less than I did in my last job, and probably only worked twice as hard as I did while having to deal with a thousand times the stress level! Damn him and his large amounts of money!

Billionaires against well payed teachers!

/

364 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 5:59:35pm

re: #355 yasharki

Sounds like a case of child abuse.

Actually it was a case of being a gifted program kid who met his match ;-) I was used to bullshitting my way through papers and being smart enough to sorta slack when i wanted to. NOT WITH HER, she saw right through me!

365 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:00:02pm

re: #359 Obdicut

That bastard! He makes about ten k a year less than I did in my last job, and probably only worked twice as hard as I did while having to deal with a thousand times the stress level! Damn him and his large amounts of money!

The HIGHEST?!?!

Like that's with tenure and the 15 years of experience?

That's way WAY worse than I expected o_o

366 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:00:21pm

re: #360 WindUpBird

My brother mike is a second grade teacher in a public school in Washington DC right now. He's a goddamn hero. He takes kids who are fresh from seeing guys get hit over the head with bricks, kids who had to step over passed-out drunks on their way to school, and gets them to learn.

Fucking hero.

368 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:01:18pm

It just gets annoying that teachers are always the first ones people blame whenever things go wrong with schools. People aren't teachers because of the money. They do it because most of them by and large love to teach and we should appreciate that more rather than blaming their union whenever things go wrong. I recall many of my high school teachers were frustrated about not being able to teach what they wanted to actually teach us and instead had to focus on some standarized test. Guess I'm kinda biased since my godmother/great aunt was a teacher and I know how hard she worked. But I really do wish people as a whole would appreciate the hard work and sacirifices teachers make. It's a thankless job and one I know I could never do. Can't even see myself subbing as someone of my friends have done since graduation.

369 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:01:30pm

re: #365 WindUpBird

God damn, now I have like survivor's guilt, nothing I've ever done in my life for a living is as important as teaching, but yet there it is. $50 grand a year and that's it.

Sometimes, it's enough to just make you look around and go 'I guess our country values being shitty."

370 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:01:33pm

re: #365 WindUpBird

It's history. Nobody gives a shit. There's almost no market for an advanced history degree except teaching.

But hell, who needs history. I mean, if we valued history, then maybe we'd realize what the fuck happens to a society when it stops caring about education and instead pretends that people like Beck deserve millions of dollars and their own TV show.

Couldn't have that.

371 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:02:24pm

re: #357 Dark_Falcon

It's a clear issue, true. I tend to lead with it on other issues though. But it is a very serious problem.

In Chicago, the management structure at the CTA grew so top-heavy that the union (in what I will credit as a good action by a labor union) refused deferral of raises, preferring job cuts that hit both them and management. Many in the union saw it as the only way to force the reduction of a bloated management. Most of those management jobs were patronage, but its Chicago, so that's to be expected.

why is this a more serious problem than the gop pushing for starving public schools of money so that the quality of primary education for this nation's children continues to decline?

i might sometimes get seriously angry at the gop straining at gnats while our children get screwed

373 palomino  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:03:12pm

Politically Christie is playing it safe here because he knows how anti-AGW the party as a whole is.

I don't know how viable he is for the gop nod though. He'll have to backtrack like Romney on a lot of issues. And he may have some of the same problems that Giuliani did. First, he's pro-gun control. Second, he's pro-civil union. Third, his abortion position is similar to Giuliani's: personally opposed but publicly accepting of Roe v Wade.

These things won't endear him to the gop base, which is still angry over not nominating a "real conservative" in 2008.

374 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:03:13pm

re: #361 Obdicut

How high should a math teacher's salary be, Dark? In Chicago? As an average?

I really don't want to try my hand at that question. Not tonight, anyway. I'd need to spend hours researching before I could answer.

375 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:04:30pm

re: #374 Dark_Falcon

Then why are you convinced the Teacher's Union demands too much money, if you have no clue what an appropriate salary is?

376 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:05:03pm

re: #370 Obdicut

It's history. Nobody gives a shit. There's almost no market for an advanced history degree except teaching.

But hell, who needs history. I mean, if we valued history, then maybe we'd realize what the fuck happens to a society when it stops caring about education and instead pretends that people like Beck deserve millions of dollars and their own TV show.

Couldn't have that.

MY BRAIN

Agh :(

Oh well, I guess we're just doomed to be outraged nerds shaking our heads at the world!

377 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:05:10pm

re: #374 Dark_Falcon

I really don't want to try my hand at that question. Not tonight, anyway. I'd need to spend hours researching before I could answer.

I'll make it easy for you Dark. Teachers deserve to get paid a hundred thousand easily.

These are the people who are doing the most important job for safeguarding the future of our nation by instilling knowledge into the minds of our children.

It should be a profession like Doctor or Lawyer where if one is qualified to hold it, then they make lots and lots of money...

378 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:05:20pm

re: #372 jamesfirecat

//CLASS WARFAIR!

//CLASS ENVY!

LIBS HATE THE WEALTHY! JEALOUSY ELEVENTYFOREVER

379 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:05:34pm

re: #373 palomino

Politically Christie is playing it safe here because he knows how anti-AGW the party as a whole is.

I don't know how viable he is for the gop nod though. He'll have to backtrack like Romney on a lot of issues. And he may have some of the same problems that Giuliani did. First, he's pro-gun control. Second, he's pro-civil union. Third, his abortion position is similar to Giuliani's: personally opposed but publicly accepting of Roe v Wade.

These things won't endear him to the gop base, which is still angry over not nominating a "real conservative" in 2008.

Yeah he's not going anywhere far at least in 2012 with positions like that. If the GOP gets landslided with an ultra conservative candidate that year. Then maybe he has a chance in 2016.

380 MinisterO  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:05:50pm

re: #45 albusteve

don't know, but somebody better figure it out fast...I'd start by arguing that GW is detrimental to national security and go from there

If it's an issue of national security then we have only one choice: Waterboard the scientists.

381 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:07:17pm

Ya know as a big Frank McCourt fan I loved his quote about teachers. I wish I had the exact quote but he basically said a teacher has to be all sorts of professions rolled in to one. Miss that guy. One of my favorite authors and a great storyteller. Would have loved to had him as a teacher.

382 ProMayaLiberal  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:07:36pm

re: #344 HoosierHoops

I would like to test this theory. Anyone have a cannon I can borrow? Preferably this one.

It's a good cannon

However, closer to topic, I ould like to say that my parents in Colorado, and my grandfather in Florida have given up on the Republican Party ever finding its marbles, and are going to re-register as Independents.

383 palomino  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:07:44pm

re: #380 MinisterO

If it's an issue of national security then we have only one choice: Waterboard the scientists.

Then all those damn tweed wearing lib professors will admit they made the whole thing up!

384 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:07:56pm

I'm out.

Remember Sauria, always be fair and balanced.

385 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:07:59pm

re: #377 jamesfirecat

I'll make it easy for you Dark. Teachers deserve to get paid a hundred thousand easily.

These are the people who are doing the most important job for safeguarding the future of our nation by instilling knowledge into the minds of our children.

It should be a profession like Doctor or Lawyer where if one is qualified to hold it, then they make lots and lots of money...

Yep. Don't they always say they have to be CEOs billions and billions of dollars in order to attract the best and the brightest?

386 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:08:07pm

re: #366 Obdicut

My brother mike is a second grade teacher in a public school in Washington DC right now. He's a goddamn hero. He takes kids who are fresh from seeing guys get hit over the head with bricks, kids who had to step over passed-out drunks on their way to school, and gets them to learn.

Fucking hero.


Your brother is mighty, holy shit

My brother got his teaching degree, subbed for a while, now he's basically checked out and he's a stay at home dad. Which, good for him, his kid is awesome and couldn't ask for a more engaged father, but he was the idealist who eventually gave up :/

387 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:09:32pm

re: #386 WindUpBird

Don't blame him. My brother taught 3rd grade in the Bay Area for five years, burned out, went on a one and a half year trip through South and Central America (on a budget of 15K) to rejuvenate. Burnout is very common, especially because of the enormous class size we saddle them with, and the conflicts between teaching the subject and teaching towards testing.

388 palomino  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:10:14pm

re: #379 HappyWarrior

Yeah he's not going anywhere far at least in 2012 with positions like that. If the GOP gets landslided with an ultra conservative candidate that year. Then maybe he has a chance in 2016.

Right. The base is emboldened by the midterms. I don't think they're likely to start promoting the few moderates left in their party over the ultraconservatives they love so much.

389 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:10:21pm

re: #385 Gus 802

Yep. Don't they always say they have to be CEOs billions and billions of dollars in order to attract the best and the brightest?

LIBERTARIANSIMS MARKET DECIDE ARGH UPSIDE DOWN CROSS GROVER NORQUIST IA FTAGHN RHYLEH

Okay, I'm out to go have a beer with my similarly dorky iphone developer friend at the Vintage Cocktail Lounge, which I know, it's a cocktail lounge but whatever :D

390 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:10:44pm

re: #387 Obdicut

Don't blame him. My brother taught 3rd grade in the Bay Area for five years, burned out, went on a one and a half year trip through South and Central America (on a budget of 15K) to rejuvenate. Burnout is very common, especially because of the enormous class size we saddle them with, and the conflicts between teaching the subject and teaching towards testing.

backpacking is so fun :D and yes o_o

391 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:11:24pm

re: #385 Gus 802

Yep. Don't they always say they have to be CEOs billions and billions of dollars in order to attract the best and the brightest?

Why of course. Top talent like Fiorina doesn't come cheap, you know. /

392 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:11:42pm

I leave you all to the Chaosmongers


Youtube Video

God help us all

393 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:11:54pm

re: #367 Gus 802

Heh, on Wall Street CEO's get bonuses hundreds and sometimes thousand (Think Blankfein) times as much as an average worker's salary in their corporations. I fail to see what is wrong with this picture tho, they're CEOs, they worked their asses off, risked all sorts of things, sacrificed their family and personal lives to get there, you can do the same, nobody is stopping you. Warren Buffet used to shine shoes at a cobbler's in Omaha, got interested in WSJ his clients were reading and is now one of the richest men alive, why shouldn't he make the money he's making?

394 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:11:57pm

re: #381 HappyWarrior

Ya know as a big Frank McCourt fan I loved his quote about teachers. I wish I had the exact quote but he basically said a teacher has to be all sorts of professions rolled in to one. Miss that guy. One of my favorite authors and a great storyteller. Would have loved to had him as a teacher.

Listened to that book on cd - McCourt read it himself. I highly recommend you listening to it again.

"Hey teach teach!" (In Bed-Stuy accent)

395 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:13:29pm

re: #393 yasharki

Um. You are aware that Warren Buffet consistently argues for much higher taxes on the wealthy and has a salary of $100,000, right?

396 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:13:57pm

re: #393 yasharki

Heh, on Wall Street CEO's get bonuses hundreds and sometimes thousand (Think Blankfein) times as much as an average worker's salary in their corporations. I fail to see what is wrong with this picture tho, they're CEOs, they worked their asses off, risked all sorts of things, sacrificed their family and personal lives to get there, you can do the same, nobody is stopping you. Warren Buffet used to shine shoes at a cobbler's in Omaha, got interested in WSJ his clients were reading and is now one of the richest men alive, why shouldn't he make the money he's making?

Boo hoo! What a sad story it is for the corporate CEO: they worked their asses off, risked all sorts of things, sacrificed their family and personal lives to get there.

I wish I was getting drunk by now.

397 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:14:21pm

re: #393 yasharki

But beyond that: There are lots of people who work their asses off and risked all sorts of things and sacrificed their family and personal lives to get where they are. Lots of cops, for example.

Should they all make 541 times the average salary, too?

398 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:15:11pm

re: #393 yasharki

The middle class has worked their asses off. Productivity is through the roof.
Their wages of stagnated since the 70's.

399 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:15:12pm

re: #393 yasharki

Warren Buffet used to shine shoes at a cobbler's in Omaha, got interested in WSJ his clients were reading and is now one of the richest men alive, why shouldn't he make the money he's making?

that's great, i'm happy for him, but what does he do that is ten thousand times more important than seeing to it that 50 ten year olds can do math properly?

400 elizajane  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:15:41pm

My kids and I watched *Freedom Writers* last week, true story of a teacher who succeeded in making a difference to a bunch of poor kids in a gang-dominated school. Not only did she not make money or win honor, she had to work THREE jobs to pay for all her teaching-related expenses, her marriage fell apart, and while she was a massive success with one group of kids, the school could not possibly replicate that success and tried to punish her for that fact. It was both an uplifting and extremely depressing story.

Experiencing the fiasco of public schools in California, where every junior teacher gets "pink-slipped" every year and then reassigned somewhere else as the state or local budget gets cobbled together, I cannot see why anybody would go into this profession. And yet I just wrote a recommendation for a top Berkeley undergrad who's going to Chile to teach English for a year and hopes to come back to the USA and teach poor Latino kids here. I hope she pulls it off.

401 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:15:45pm

re: #398 Varek Raith

The middle class has worked their asses off. Productivity is through the roof.
Their wages of have stagnated since the 70's.

402 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:16:17pm

re: #397 Obdicut

But beyond that: There are lots of people who work their asses off and risked all sorts of things and sacrificed their family and personal lives to get where they are. Lots of cops, for example.

Should they all make 541 times the average salary, too?

Plus most of the engineers, scientists, developers, etc., are the true backbone of the corporations. Not some cocktail party figurehead known as the CEO.

403 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:17:03pm

re: #395 Obdicut

I guess he's getting old, investing in all kinds of charities, asking other billionaires to share their wealth. Bad example I guess, but I'm a bit wasted to come up with a better one, moi pardon.

404 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:17:23pm

re: #364 WindUpBird

Actually it was a case of being a gifted program kid who met his match ;-) I was used to bullshitting my way through papers and being smart enough to sorta slack when i wanted to. NOT WITH HER, she saw right through me!

May my kids be blessed with such teachers.

405 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:18:51pm

Shit, I am sure Mr. Buffett worked very hard to get where he is now but as other people have said, there are other people who work just as hard who only see a tiny fraction of the salary he has. I mean you have cops, firefighters, and others who risk their lives doing what they do and they also risk their mental health doing what they do too. I admire anyone who pulls themselves up from poverty or a lower class background but it just really rubs me the wrong way that there are people out there who make more money in one year than many families have seen in generations. Yeah, I don't care how far to the left economically that makes me sound. It just really rubs me the wrong way that a CEO makes a huge chunk more than his employees.

406 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:20:29pm

re: #394 Stanley Sea

Listened to that book on cd - McCourt read it himself. I highly recommend you listening to it again.

"Hey teach teach!" (In Bed-Stuy accent)

Ah don't have the audio version. I only got in to reading him after my grandmotehr who was Irish died. Remember her having copies of his books and feeling at the time I Was too young to get in to them. He really is the Irish grandfather I never had. Did you see him on the Daily Show like five years back? He was great. Him, W.B. Yeats are a large reason why I got back in to writing after a long absence.

407 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:20:48pm

I really don't care what CEOs and the like get paid, as long as it does not come at the price of screwing over employees, pensioners and investors ala Enron.

408 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:21:07pm

re: #402 Gus 802

Plus most of the engineers, scientists, developers, etc., are the true backbone of the corporations. Not some cocktail party figurehead known as the CEO.

Whitman and Failorina losing was like sweet, sweet drops of honey in the otherwise bitter midterm brew.

409 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:21:30pm

I know that there are no do-overs in life, but 12 years ago I had a nice job that I loved, it just didn't pay very much, and recruiters were offering all kinds of big bucks for the big Y2K. So I quit the modest-paying job I loved to make some big bucks, then Y2K was over, then dot-com went bust, and then the recession, and I said G-D how stupid I was to leave my nice little job.

Well, now I have a nice job offer that is very similar to the job I left, only now with more HINDSIGHT and no more kids in college!

410 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:21:30pm

re: #402 Gus 802

Some CEOs are good. Some of them really understand the market that they're in, the people they work with, the technology of the industry.

What's really fictional is the idea that you can take the CEO of a company and drop them into an unrelated company and they'll start doing well. It's how it works these days-- CEOs shuffle between corporations, even when those corporations are severely different. And yet everyone nods their heads as though that makes any sense.

Lee Iaccoca was a good CEO. Gabe Newwll is a good CEO-- sorry, Managing Director. That's because they really fucking understand their industries and are passionate about them.

Guys who are just passionate about being CEOs don't do much. They mostly move the pieces around. If the people under them are doing well, the CEO takes a bunch of the credit. If the people under them aren't doing well, the company fails and the CEO goes on to another big job, usually with a nice big settlement.

It's all incredibly stupid.

411 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:22:20pm

Night Lizards. 200+ comments behind, but it's time to call it a night.

Leave you with this.

Youtube Video

Eventually it (life) will get you/me as well.

Accept it

412 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:22:35pm

re: #403 yasharki

I guess he's getting old, investing in all kinds of charities, asking other billionaires to share their wealth. Bad example I guess, but I'm a bit wasted to come up with a better one, moi pardon.

What about coming up with a reason why the things you listed-- sacrificing family, jobs, and all kinds of other things-- deserve such a salary, and why, if that's the case, we shouldn't reward cops to the same tune?

413 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:23:23pm

re: #409 Alouette

Capt. Hindsight FTW!

And congrats on your job offer.

414 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:23:41pm

ALL HAIL THE ARISTOCRACY!

415 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:23:57pm

re: #396 Gus 802

Men you guys got me all confused. I came here from Soviet Russia, where it was all about phantom equality and only party leaders and thiefs had any substantial wealth, that's why I immigrated and never looked back. Sure it's much harder to make a living here in the States, and one needs to work his/her ass off, but one reaps fruits of his/her labor, right? If someone's smarter, or maybe even cannier I only applaud their success, what you're saying sounds like jealousy.

416 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:24:19pm

re: #412 Obdicut

What about coming up with a reason why the things you listed-- sacrificing family, jobs, and all kinds of other things-- deserve such a salary, and why, if that's the case, we shouldn't reward cops to the same tune?

//Cause cops only have to be shot at Ceo's have to go to... COCKTAIL MIXERS, THE HORROR!!

417 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:25:44pm

re: #415 yasharki

If someone's smarter, or maybe even cannier I only applaud their success, what you're saying sounds like jealousy.


What about a cop who puts his life on the line while working 12 hour days? Why does he deserve less money?

Capitalism has nothing to do with 'deserve'. At all, in any way. It has to do with "what the market will pay". And the market is distorted in any number of ways.

418 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:25:45pm

re: #416 jamesfirecat

//Cause cops only have to be shot at Ceo's have to go to... COCKTAIL MIXERS, THE HORROR!!

Hey now choosing if you want your martini shaken or stirred is tough. We can't all be James Bond.

419 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:26:05pm

re: #415 yasharki

Men you guys got me all confused. I came here from Soviet Russia, where it was all about phantom equality and only party leaders and thiefs had any substantial wealth, that's why I immigrated and never looked back. Sure it's much harder to make a living here in the States, and one needs to work his/her ass off, but one reaps fruits of his/her labor, right? If someone's smarter, or maybe even cannier I only applaud their success, what you're saying sounds like jealousy.

The American Dream should not be about getting wealthy at the expense of others, like a CEO getting paid millions of dollars when their company does worse under them....

420 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:27:12pm

re: #417 Obdicut

Please note, I'm not advocating that we pay people what they 'deserve' on some moral plane.

But please let's stop the fiction that capitalism is a moral values system, and whoever makes more money 'deserves' it.

421 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:27:24pm

re: #415 yasharki

I wouldn't down ding Yasharki for that one. S/he just has a very different life experience and perspective on this then those of us raised in The States.

422 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:27:50pm

re: #406 HappyWarrior

I'm sure you have added James Joyce to you List.

423 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:28:43pm

re: #421 Slumbering Behemoth

Agreed, though accusations of jealousy are in pretty poor taste.

424 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:29:17pm

re: #417 Obdicut

True, it often seems that certain people or even professions are overworked and underpaid, but like you said it's the market that dictates prices and salaries. I've lived on both sides of economic theory, communism and capitalism, and trust me capitalism is a much better way, which works.

425 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:29:20pm

re: #422 prairiefire

I'm sure you have added James Joyce to you List.

Yeah read some of Dubliners while I was over there. The Dead was a nice short story. I was only majoring in history when I studied in Galway. Now, I'm a history major/english minor. Love it.

426 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:30:20pm

re: #410 Obdicut

Some CEOs are good. Some of them really understand the market that they're in, the people they work with, the technology of the industry.

What's really fictional is the idea that you can take the CEO of a company and drop them into an unrelated company and they'll start doing well. It's how it works these days-- CEOs shuffle between corporations, even when those corporations are severely different. And yet everyone nods their heads as though that makes any sense.

Lee Iaccoca was a good CEO. Gabe Newwll is a good CEO-- sorry, Managing Director. That's because they really fucking understand their industries and are passionate about them.

Guys who are just passionate about being CEOs don't do much. They mostly move the pieces around. If the people under them are doing well, the CEO takes a bunch of the credit. If the people under them aren't doing well, the company fails and the CEO goes on to another big job, usually with a nice big settlement.

It's all incredibly stupid.

Right. My point of course wasn't the CEOs itself but when we compare the compensation of say the average teacher to the average Fortune 500 CEO. The fact is that the majority of American are aghast at their compensation of late and that includes registered Dems, Reps, and independents.

They don't make CEOs like they used to. In the old days they were compensated for much less and at the same time more people were employed by the industrial backbone of America. Now, every other CEO, and they can be the biggest loser in the corporate world, commands a compensation package that would make the railroad magnates blush.

427 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:30:23pm

re: #421 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm a he if you're wondering :)

428 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:30:37pm

Sorry if I got people annoyed. I wanted a quiet night tonight. It's my birthday. I haven't celebrated much, though. Just wanted to get through today.

429 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:30:51pm

re: #424 yasharki

Dude, why the fuck are you pretending anyone here is suggesting communism as an alternative? How drunk are you?

This is just a cultural thing. The US corporate culture has become tolerant of a stupid and dangerous attitude towards CEOs. The US didn't become more capitalistic as the CEO salaries skyrocketed. We were just as capitalist before. This has nothing to do with communism vs. capitalism.

430 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:31:18pm

For me it's not so much that I wish that those CEOs would make less money. It's that I wish the people who work hard would get paid better. My great grandfather was an immigrant coal miner. Raised my grandmother's half siblings practically alone after his first wife died of TB in the early 20's. I don't think he should have been paid millions of dollars for the work he did but I do feel it would have been nice if he and my grandmother's family wouldn't have been in a constant struggle to make ends meet.

431 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:31:30pm

re: #417 Obdicut

I agree that LEOs are not getting paid what they're worth, but good luck selling that one. Between people who hate taxes, and people who hate cops, you're fighting an uphill battle on getting anything done.

On a hill covered with grease, thumb tacks, and killer bees possessed by satan.

432 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:31:40pm

re: #428 Dark_Falcon

Sorry if I got people annoyed. I wanted a quiet night tonight. It's my birthday. I haven't celebrated much, though. Just wanted to get through today.

Happy birthday!

433 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:32:10pm

re: #428 Dark_Falcon

Aw, Dark. I'm sorry. Happy birthday. Consider this your spanking:

If you can't tell me what you think an appropriate teacher salary is, but you're convinced they make too much money, I'm always going to give you a hard time for that because it makes no sense.

Now, have some cake, blow out the candles, and wish for a sane GOP that doesn't embarrass the hell out of you.

434 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:32:22pm

re: #419 jamesfirecat

That's where board of directors and shareholders come in or do you think CEO's hold absolute power?

435 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:32:55pm

re: #421 Slumbering Behemoth

I wouldn't down ding Yasharki for that one. S/he just has a very different life experience and perspective on this then those of us raised in The States.

So did Ayn Rand, that doesn't excuse what she did to Capitalism.....

436 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:33:30pm

re: #415 yasharki

Men you guys got me all confused. I came here from Soviet Russia, where it was all about phantom equality and only party leaders and thiefs had any substantial wealth, that's why I immigrated and never looked back. Sure it's much harder to make a living here in the States, and one needs to work his/her ass off, but one reaps fruits of his/her labor, right? If someone's smarter, or maybe even cannier I only applaud their success, what you're saying sounds like jealousy.

then you'll need to learn that the amount of money one makes in the united states, although nobody is begrudging you it, is not related in any way to the value of your work to society

i'm not jealous - i'm an engineer and make plenty of money. but i feel sad that a very important job - educating our nation's children - is more and more undervalued and ill paid

437 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:33:38pm

Map of the day
Image: xcLpX.jpg

438 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:33:44pm

re: #428 Dark_Falcon

Sorry if I got people annoyed. I wanted a quiet night tonight. It's my birthday. I haven't celebrated much, though. Just wanted to get through today.

Sorry about jumping down your throat Dark, but you did really seem to be barking up the wrong tree by standing up for this guy in my opinion...

439 jaunte  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:33:51pm

re: #428 Dark_Falcon

Happy birthday!

440 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:34:04pm

re: #420 Obdicut

Please note, I'm not advocating that we pay people what they 'deserve' on some moral plane.

But please let's stop the fiction that capitalism is a moral values system, and whoever makes more money 'deserves' it.

A conservative would recoil at the negative description of a capitalist. "They are Titans walking the earth..." Baloney. What the working man had to put up with before Chavez, Alinsky for African American Eastman Kodak workers in New York, was ridiculous.

441 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:34:33pm

re: #423 Obdicut

Agreed, though accusations of jealousy are in pretty poor taste.

True, but s/he was at least sensitive enough to use the phrase "sounds like".

442 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:35:01pm

re: #415 yasharki

Men you guys got me all confused. I came here from Soviet Russia, where it was all about phantom equality and only party leaders and thiefs had any substantial wealth, that's why I immigrated and never looked back. Sure it's much harder to make a living here in the States, and one needs to work his/her ass off, but one reaps fruits of his/her labor, right? If someone's smarter, or maybe even cannier I only applaud their success, what you're saying sounds like jealousy.

Jealousy? That's an oversimplification of things. It's not jealousy. It's rage against a system that compensates assholes and idiots with millions and billions of dollars a year for doing jack shit for society and in many cases, the very corporations they're commanding.

Try another thing while you're thinking about this. Work your ass off and then even if your reap the fruits of your labor you can watch your 401K or retirement fund vanish into the cesspool of Wall Street and the Dow. Then, if you happen to lose your job and are over 50 years old you have to deal with the rampant ageism that exists in the country not unlike South America.

443 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:35:04pm

re: #434 yasharki

That's where board of directors and shareholders come in or do you think CEO's hold absolute power?

I don't believe they hold absolute power, however can you explain to me why a CEO like the former Republican candidate for senator of California gets paid millions of dollars as she leaves a job where she made the company worse without wanting to start worshiping elder ones?

444 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:35:25pm

re: #424 yasharki

under capitalism, man exploits man

under communism, it's completely the other way around!

445 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:35:46pm

re: #437 Killgore Trout

Map of the day
Image: xcLpX.jpg

Antartica is in white, what do those people researching the polar ice caps think they're too good for us?

446 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:35:52pm

re: #444 engineer dog

under capitalism, man exploits man

under communism, it's completely the other way around!

That sounds familiar, whose words are those again?

447 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:36:42pm

Screw that. I have 0 dollars right now. You want fucking sympathy for the CEOs that have fucked this country up you're not going to get it from me. I spent all day not eating thanks to living in the screwed up system. I wipe my ass with the images of CEOs.

448 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:37:21pm

re: #429 Obdicut

No need to get all worked up, I'm not pretending anyone is suggesting communism as a solution. But the last time I heard anyone counting someone else's money, and bitching about it was back in the USSR. What business is it of yours who makes how much money? It's not like they're stealing it from you, they do what anyone can do given enough intelligence and dedication.

449 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:37:45pm

re: #443 jamesfirecat

I don't believe they hold absolute power, however can you explain to me why a CEO like the former Republican candidate for senator of California gets paid millions of dollars as she leaves a job where she made the company worse without wanting to start worshiping elder ones?

Or the old CEO of General Motors who made multimillion dollar salary and spent a decade driving the stock and the company into the ground. He was only removed once the government stepped in.

450 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:38:13pm

re: #445 jamesfirecat

Antartica is in white, what do those people researching the polar ice caps think they're too good for us?

Global warming socialists.

451 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:38:13pm

re: #427 yasharki

I'm a he if you're wondering :)

Aw, damn it! You ruined it!
/

452 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:39:05pm

re: #448 yasharki

Why is it that even thought productivity is up by an insane amount, middle class wages have stagnated? Do they not deserve proper compensation for the increase in productivity?

453 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:39:12pm

re: #447 Gus 802

Screw that. I have 0 dollars right now. You want fucking sympathy for the CEOs that have fucked this country up you're not going to get it from me. I spent all day not eating thanks to living in the screwed up system. I wipe my ass with the images of CEOs.

I'm recovering from a sever bout of poverty myself. Hang in there, I know how it feels.

454 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:39:35pm

re: #428 Dark_Falcon

Wait, you were born? I thought you were hatched?
/
Happy B-day, bro!

455 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:39:46pm

re: #415 yasharki

Men you guys got me all confused. I came here from Soviet Russia, where it was all about phantom equality and only party leaders and thiefs had any substantial wealth, that's why I immigrated and never looked back. Sure it's much harder to make a living here in the States, and one needs to work his/her ass off, but one reaps fruits of his/her labor, right? If someone's smarter, or maybe even cannier I only applaud their success, what you're saying sounds like jealousy.

Also might I add, if we middle class people weren't "jealous" of the rich and didn't want what they had, then the entire capitalistic system falls apart.

It's a system driven by mankinds desire for more and better.

How can "class envy" or "class jealousy" be a bad thing in a system that is all about working harder to get what you want?

456 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:40:20pm

re: #428 Dark_Falcon

Sorry if I got people annoyed. I wanted a quiet night tonight. It's my birthday. I haven't celebrated much, though. Just wanted to get through today.

Happy B Day!! Go out and get some ice cream!!

457 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:40:20pm

re: #448 yasharki

You see, when you say to trust you, that capitalism is better than communism, it really, really sounds like you're accusing someone else of supporting communism. Everyone here knows capitalism is better than communism.

But the last time I heard anyone counting someone else's money, and bitching about it was back in the USSR.


Then go to any other nation on earth and talk to other humans, and you'll hear it. Sheesh.

It's not like they're stealing it from you, they do what anyone can do given enough intelligence and dedication.

I think maybe you've had enough to drink, dude. You don't really grasp what we're saying here.

There are plenty of people with tons of intelligence and shitloads of dedication who will never be CEOs-- often because they're busy doing something much more fucking worthwhile.

458 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:40:23pm

re: #434 yasharki

That's where board of directors and shareholders come in or do you think CEO's hold absolute power?

you'll learn in this country that management are the self-appointed nobility of modern feudalism

they may work very hard, be responsible for important decisions that cause very good - and sometimes very bad - things to happen, and be liable to get fired quickly and brutally by those that are above them or boards they are responsible to - i don't begrudge them their hard work, difficult decisions, or success

but they have it arranged amongst themselves that no matter how badly they screw up, they will walk away rich

459 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:40:50pm

re: #446 HappyWarrior

That sounds familiar, whose words are those again?

as far as i know, it's an old soviet joke

460 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:40:54pm

re: #435 jamesfirecat

So did Ayn Rand, that doesn't excuse what she did to Capitalism...

Yeah, well... Hitler hated Ayn Rand too, so there! :P
/

461 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:41:06pm

re: #453 Killgore Trout

I'm recovering from a sever bout of poverty myself. Hang in there, I know how it feels.

Thanks. Sometimes I find myself want to rant and rave out loud -- to myself.

462 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:41:10pm

re: #455 jamesfirecat

Nothing but net on that one James. Swish. Three-pointer, too.

463 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:41:52pm

re: #459 engineer dog

as far as i know, it's an old soviet joke

Thought I heard it attributed to some writer is why I asked. Thanks anyhow dude.

464 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:42:00pm

re: #448 yasharki

No need to get all worked up, I'm not pretending anyone is suggesting communism as a solution. But the last time I heard anyone counting someone else's money, and bitching about it was back in the USSR. What business is it of yours who makes how much money? It's not like they're stealing it from you, they do what anyone can do given enough intelligence and dedication.

So you say anyone can become a CEO and fall ass backwards into money while leveling the company they were hired to help?

Truly this is a land of great opprotunities and freedome!

465 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:42:05pm

re: #448 yasharki

What business is it of yours who makes how much money? It's not like they're stealing it from you, they do what anyone can do given enough intelligence and dedication.

Money sucked up by exorbitant CEO pay is money not reinvested in a company and its workers. And golden parachutes are most definitely a form of legalized theft.

466 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:42:10pm

re: #437 Killgore Trout

Map of the day
Image: xcLpX.jpg

Best. Map. Evar!

467 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:42:33pm

re: #452 Varek Raith

I'm not a business major, so you got me there, however I do not understand a concept of "deserving" a compensation. It's a free market out there, you take the offer or you don't, it's up to you, no?

468 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:43:34pm

You know it's really not even the CEOs making millions that bugs me per say, it's these reality stars that our stupid media creates. I mean the Situation from Jersey Shore is due to make 5 mill this year. There's something deeply disturbing that being a professional d-bag gets you that kinda money. I'm sorry but that really rubs me the wrong way.

469 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:43:40pm

Heck. You don't even go to jail with a hit and run felony charge.

470 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:43:56pm

re: #464 jamesfirecat

Carly Fiorina sure can, and now she's all up into politics swinging her corporate assets :)

471 jaunte  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:44:27pm

re: #458 engineer dog

Some of the money they're making is coming from re-engineering their companies' products, so that less goes in to the same item than went into it a few years ago. By the time consumers notice, and the brand suffers a deterioration in its image, it's the problem of the next CEO.

472 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:45:04pm

re: #462 Obdicut

Nothing but net on that one James. Swish. Three-pointer, too.

"Class warfair" I can take a semi-serious insult or possible problem.

But "Class jealousy" or class "envy" me being told that's a problem by the same people who argue we need to pull ourselves up by our boostraps, pick a message and stick with it!

473 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:45:17pm

re: #448 yasharki

What business is it of yours who makes how much money?

it is our business when people doing vital things aren't getting paid enough

474 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:45:23pm

Paul Eisler, developed the circuit board, one of the most important inventions in the history of technology.

Made almost no money off of it. His company held the patent but American companies just ignored that.

History is littered with examples like that. Sometimes drive, energy, intelligence, and actual achievement just gets you jack shit.

475 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:45:44pm

re: #462 Obdicut

Nothing but net on that one James. Swish. Three-pointer, too.

Agreed.

476 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:45:49pm

re: #468 HappyWarrior

You know it's really not even the CEOs making millions that bugs me per say, it's these reality stars that our stupid media creates. I mean the Situation from Jersey Shore is due to make 5 mill this year. There's something deeply disturbing that being a professional d-bag gets you that kinda money. I'm sorry but that really rubs me the wrong way.

Them too. Maybe even more considering that most of them are the lowest form of life there is on Earth. And don't get me started with those folks that throw spherical or prolate spheroid objects for a living.

477 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:47:01pm

re: #476 Gus 802

At least they are honestly outstanding in their field. I'm not saying they should get paid what they do. But at least, in that case, there is an actual meritocracy.

I wouldn't mind CEOs getting paid the wages they do if it actually selected for the best and the brightest. It doesn't. So obviously, it doesn't.

478 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:47:56pm

re: #465 publicityStunted

Right, so blame the board of directors who elected their CEO and assigned a salary. Isn't it a general principal of incorporation that shareholders make decisions?

479 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:47:56pm

re: #455 jamesfirecat

Also might I add, if we middle class people weren't "jealous" of the rich and didn't want what they had, then the entire capitalistic system falls apart.

This is why I'm not getting anywhere in life. I'm not jealous of the rich (with the possible exception of Hugh Hefner), and I don't really find myself wanting most of the crap they have (with the definite exception of Hugh Hefner).

480 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:48:24pm

re: #476 Gus 802

Them too. Maybe even more considering that most of them are the lowest form of life there is on Earth. And don't get me started with those folks that throw spherical or prolate spheroid objects for a living.

Heck, I love sports and agree with you strongly about that. I have an oral hsitory book of interviews done with baseball hall of famers in 1980. Just a sidenote but Nolan Ryan became the first baseball player to get a million bucks a year in salary that year. Now, thirty years later the average salary is twice that amount. And those old time ball players who had played in the 20's and 30's were astounded about the salaries in the early 80's. Can't imagine how they'd feel now about guys getting in the hundreds of millions to play a game.

481 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:49:43pm

re: #474 Obdicut

Paul Eisler, developed the circuit board, one of the most important inventions in the history of technology.

Made almost no money off of it. His company held the patent but American companies just ignored that.

History is littered with examples like that. Sometimes drive, energy, intelligence, and actual achievement just gets you jack shit.

philo farnsworth invented television, ferchrissakes, but he spent so much time fighting RCA over it that he never made any money from it

he was okay, though. he won the patent battle in the end, and made a decent engineer's living

482 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:49:53pm

re: #428 Dark_Falcon

Sorry if I got people annoyed. I wanted a quiet night tonight. It's my birthday. I haven't celebrated much, though. Just wanted to get through today.

Well happy birthday D_F - fellow Scorpio!

483 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:51:13pm

The glory of unregulated capitalism:

Image: trodd-lewis-hine-01.jpg

Image: child-labor.jpg

484 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:53:22pm

re: #356 Stanley Sea

I've said this before, I have a great friend who is a special ed teacher. I have never seen anyone so dedicated and hard working (she cannot miss a day easily, and works over the allotted frame of hours)

She's not rich.

SFZ has attested to the work of teachers as well.

That the GOP picks on the teachers and the teacher's union is the problem is so blindly shallow and ignorant.

They should pick on the cop and prison guard unions. Those folks make their huge living on overtime.

Gah!

Can we distinguish between the teachers and the union? It's not as if the teachers have a choice to be in the union or not.

OK OK but they have to pay dues either way. Same difference.

The problem with teachers unions isn't that they demand unreasonable wages. It's that they demand unreasonable job security. Let's say your students, year in, year out, make a lot less progress than they've made in past years, and somewhat less than they've tended to make in the years after you had them. Computer models take everything that's known about their habits and capacities and project the progress they'd make, all else being equal. And when they're with you, they don't make half that.

All the other teachers have stats too, ranging from below average to above average to quite a bit above average in one or two cases. But you're the outlier. And it's not as if nobody has a clue why. You drag through the day. You're defeated by discipline problems. You don't keep up with the grading. Sometimes you're confused about the subject matter.

Is your job safe? Should it be? At what point does there have to be a line? Teachers unions have objected fiercely to the kind of standards that would lead to dismissal of one half of one percent of teachers per year. As with disruptive students, really bad teachers can do harm all out of proportion to their numbers. Reasonable standards are within reach of most teachers, and it would be a relief to the mass of them to be shed of the worst of their own. It has to hurt to see a year of hard work go down the drain when your charges land with Teacher X.

Look at it from the other end. Let's say you're the outlier at the top end. You've got the teaching world by the tail. But---where is the reward? Virtue can be its own reward. If that were not true, we wouldn't see the heroes we do see. But for many, it's not enough, not long term.

Michelle Rhee did her level best to reform the schools in DC. There were visible signs of progress. Her reward? To be fired for upsetting a cozy deal that was cozy but not for the students.

485 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:53:38pm

re: #473 engineer dog

Fair enough, and I do agree that teachers, cops, firemen, emergency workers aren't getting paid their due. How can this be fixed tho given current budget deficits and unemployment across all states? Taxing the hell out of CEOs doesn't sound like a bad idea actually, now that I think about it.

486 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:54:11pm

re: #484 lostlakehiker

Again: If you make it hard to fire bad teachers, you also make it hard to fire good teachers, which is a good thing. You need to include that in your 'analysis'.

487 jaunte  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:54:20pm

re: #483 Obdicut

The glory of unregulated capitalism:

Image: trodd-lewis-hine-01.jpg

Image: child-labor.jpg

And today:

An estimated 158 million children aged 5-14 are engaged in child labour - one in six children in the world. [Link: www.unicef.org...]
488 freetoken  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:54:37pm

re: #468 HappyWarrior

I mean the Situation from Jersey Shore is due to make 5 mill this year.

Didn't last long on DWTS. "The Situation" came off as a true one trick pony, and incapable of taking instruction.

489 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:55:01pm

re: #471 jaunte

Some of the money they're making is coming from re-engineering their companies' products, so that less goes in to the same item than went into it a few years ago. By the time consumers notice, and the brand suffers a deterioration in its image, it's the problem of the next CEO.

That sort of thing seemed to happened with Levi Strauss in the '90s. I've worn Levi's pretty much my whole life, and as a child putting them through some harsh treatment I tended to outgrow them before I wore them out. That's why my folks bought them for me.

But in the early '90s they started selling POS jeans for $50-$60 a pair that did not stand up to my casual, adult use. I swore off them until about five years ago I saw target selling 'em for ~$25 a pair. I bought two, and they're still in pretty good shape to this day.

No idea what happened within the company for them to change back and forth like that.

490 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:55:40pm

re: #487 jaunte

And today:

Real life is just like a Lovecraft book sometimes, in that every time I learn something new, it makes me want to abandon all sense of restraint and go on a murderous rampage....

491 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:56:26pm

re: #482 Stanley Sea

Well happy birthday D_F - fellow Scorpio!

Thanks. And thank you to all of you. Sorry about the lateness of my reply, I was on the phone.

492 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:56:40pm

re: #485 yasharki

Fair enough, and I do agree that teachers, cops, firemen, emergency workers aren't getting paid their due. How can this be fixed tho given current budget deficits and unemployment across all states? Taxing the hell out of CEOs doesn't sound like a bad idea actually, now that I think about it.

this is the right, question, i think, but i'm afraid the answer would need to begin with the past 30 years of american history and politics

and go from there

493 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:57:25pm

re: #483 Obdicut

The glory of unregulated capitalism:

Image: trodd-lewis-hine-01.jpg

Image: child-labor.jpg

Damn those unions. Interfering with honest child labor.
/

494 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:57:29pm

re: #491 Dark_Falcon

happy birthday, D_F!

495 jaunte  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:59:30pm

re: #489 Slumbering Behemoth

Levi's apparently source their production from a lot of different places. [Link: www.icarusfilms.com...]

496 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:59:44pm

Buon Compleanno DF!

497 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:59:45pm

OK. Maybe I'm a little jealous. I wish I could travel the country making insipid speeches and being able to use crib notes on my hand; fly in Lear Jets and Gulfstreams; hire ghost writers to write "my own" book; then spend my free time on a reality TV show and entering the dumbest shit on my FB account and Twitter. And in the get payed almost 6 million dollars a year for being a lame idiot.

//

498 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 6:59:49pm

re: #486 Obdicut

Again: If you make it hard to fire bad teachers, you also make it hard to fire good teachers, which is a good thing. You need to include that in your 'analysis'.

True, but if you make it impossible to fire bad teachers you end up with bad schools. There needs to be a way to dump the chumps. In order for an organization to properly function, it cannot be forced to retain people who have manifestly failed to do their jobs.

499 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:00:19pm

re: #483 Obdicut

The glory of unregulated capitalism:

Image: trodd-lewis-hine-01.jpg

Image: child-labor.jpg

Ah, the "good ole days", America's Golden Age. Back before the evil secularists took over and made school prayer illegal.

You'll dig this website, I think.

500 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:02:25pm

re: #497 Gus 802

OK. Maybe I'm a little jealous. I wish I could travel the country making insipid speeches and being able to use crib notes on my hand; fly in Lear Jets and Gulfstreams; hire ghost writers to write "my own" book; then spend my free time on a reality TV show and entering the dumbest shit on my FB account and Twitter. And in the get payed almost 6 million dollars a year for being a lame idiot.

//

I think you just detailed the effort it takes. She is definitely ambitious.

501 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:02:40pm

re: #497 Gus 802

My Rabbe likes to say "If you're so smart, why are you so poor"?

502 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:02:58pm

re: #500 prairiefire

I think you just detailed the effort it takes. She is definitely ambitious.

Yep. And she's certainly sacrificed a lot.

/

503 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:04:06pm

re: #339 LudwigVanQuixote

Check out my new page, Global Warming and CO2: 1955
This demonstrates that the relationship between atmospheric warming and anthropogenic CO2 was a serious and well-defined hypothesis 55 years ago, well enough defined for Life magazine to raise the issue with the general public at any rate.

504 recusancy  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:04:52pm

re: #106 albusteve

bullshit...show me where Dobbs is xenophobic...illegal immigration is a gigantic problem and you reduce your opposition to xenophobes...tripe

hahaha... gigantic problem? [Link: andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com...]

505 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:04:54pm

re: #501 yasharki

My Rabbe likes to say "If you're so smart, why are you so poor"?

Well, tell him we're in a serious recession right now and that the housing and commercial markets are practically dead while at the same time the cost of living hasn't gone down.

506 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:09:47pm

re: #442 Gus 802

Jealousy? That's an oversimplification of things. It's not jealousy. It's rage against a system that compensates assholes and idiots with millions and billions of dollars a year for doing jack shit for society and in many cases, the very corporations they're commanding.

Try another thing while you're thinking about this. Work your ass off and then even if your reap the fruits of your labor you can watch your 401K or retirement fund vanish into the cesspool of Wall Street and the Dow. Then, if you happen to lose your job and are over 50 years old you have to deal with the rampant ageism that exists in the country not unlike South America.

You had to be exceptionally unlucky to be down 30 percent, assuming you held on when the market tanked and now have recovered some. And it's not a cesspool. It's a bubble that popped. Not to say I saw it coming, but my losses are my own damned fault and yours are yours.

507 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:12:04pm

American Intellectual Subversives, with honors. Tina Fey receives the Mark Twain Award!
She is only the 3rd woman to receive the award.
"Draw a circle around it cuz that's like a cherry bomb."

508 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:13:00pm

re: #506 lostlakehiker

You had to be exceptionally unlucky to be down 30 percent, assuming you held on when the market tanked and now have recovered some. And it's not a cesspool. It's a bubble that popped. Not to say I saw it coming, but my losses are my own damned fault and yours are yours.

I didn't speak from experience but from people I've talked with.

Not their fault?

• Savings and Loan Scandal
• ENRON
• Housing Bubble (Fannie/Freddie/AIG/Bear Stearns et al)

That's a very short list.

509 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:13:26pm

re: #486 Obdicut

Again: If you make it hard to fire bad teachers, you also make it hard to fire good teachers, which is a good thing. You need to include that in your 'analysis'.

Surely a good teacher would not get swept up in a process which required sustained, documented far-sub-par results, compared to what would rationally have been expected from the students that teacher had to work with?

Almost by definition, a moderately below average teacher, much less a particularly good one, is quite safe from such a process.

I don't want good teachers fired. I don't even want below-average teachers fired. Their replacements would likely be further below average. Any system, however good it gets, consists half of below-average performers. I'm talking about the dregs.

510 engineer cat  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:15:25pm

re: #501 yasharki

My Rabbe likes to say "If you're so smart, why are you so poor"?

rabbi hillel said

"the more flesh, the more worms
the more posessions, the more worry
the more wives, the more witchcraft
the more maid-servants, the more lewdness
the more man-servants, the more theivery"

(ok, so maybe a few attitudes need to be updated...)

511 recusancy  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:16:54pm

re: #506 lostlakehiker

You had to be exceptionally unlucky to be down 30 percent, assuming you held on when the market tanked and now have recovered some. And it's not a cesspool. It's a bubble that popped. Not to say I saw it coming, but my losses are my own damned fault and yours are yours.

It's a cesspool.

512 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:17:02pm

re: #504 recusancy

Remember when linking to Sully would cause folks here to melt down?

heh

513 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:17:44pm

re: #508 Gus 802

I didn't speak from experience but from people I've talked with.

Not their fault?

• Savings and Loan Scandal
• ENRON
• Housing Bubble (Fannie/Freddie/AIG/Bear Stearns et al)

That's a very short list.

If you put all your retirement savings in Enron, or hell, I don't care, if you put it all into cocoa futures, and you lost a bundle, it is your fault. You didn't spread your risk. It's Enron's fault that you lost money, if you had some with Enron, but a lot of the fault is yours if you lost it all.

If you bought an upscale house at a super upscale price and figured that yeah, you can't cover the payments but that big raise is sure to materialize shortly and if it doesn't you can always sell at a profit, you were a living walking example of pride going before a fall.

If you kept your savings in an S&L that failed, you got them back. That's the whole point of FDIC.

Your list fails, fails, and fails. Since it was short, I assume you took your best shot.

514 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:18:15pm

How to be a blowhard:

N.J. commission sides with unions on public employees taking off Black Friday holiday

TRENTON — Most state workers may get to enjoy their turkey on Thanksgiving without having to worry about going to the office the next day.

In a dispute between Gov. Chris Christie's administration and state workers unions over whether employees will have to come in on "Black Friday," the state Public Employment Relations Commission today sided with the unions.

Under an agreement struck with the Corzine administration in 2009, state employees would work on Lincoln's Birthday in exchange for getting the day after Thanksgiving off.

But the Christie administration sent a memo to state workers last month informing them that the day after Thanksgiving would be a regular workday, while Lincoln's birthday would be a paid holiday. In the memo, Office of Employee Relations director David Cohen wrote that legislation would be needed to swap the holidays, and advised them not to seek the legislation because Christie wanted the Legislature to spend its time considering "tool kit" bills to curtail property taxes.

They swapped Lincoln's Birthday for Black Friday. Now, Christie wants to change it back. Blowhard.

515 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:18:32pm

re: #512 Stanley Sea

Remember when linking to Sully would cause folks here to melt down?

heh

I'm not melting down, but he's still an ass.

516 Gus  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:18:51pm

re: #513 lostlakehiker

OK, it failed.

Tool.

517 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:21:14pm

re: #510 engineer dog

rabbi hillel said

"the more flesh, the more worms
the more possessions, the more worry
the more wives, the more witchcraft
the more maid-servants, the more lewdness
the more man-servants, the more thievery"

(ok, so maybe a few attitudes need to be updated...)

I think America has been improving on the old feudal system since the beginning.

518 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:21:28pm

re: #515 Dark_Falcon

I'm not melting down, but he's still an ass.

You're a good dude D_F - especially today!

519 yasharki  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:22:25pm

re: #510 engineer dog

Wise words indeed.

520 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:22:37pm

re: #501 yasharki

My Rabbe likes to say "If you're so smart, why are you so poor"?

What a terrible thing to say to someone.

521 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:23:37pm

re: #514 Gus 802

How to be a blowhard:

N.J. commission sides with unions on public employees taking off Black Friday holiday

They swapped Lincoln's Birthday for Black Friday. Now, Christie wants to change it back. Blowhard.

Actually, Gus, it doesn't say anything about the Christie administration's reasoning.

522 recusancy  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:26:32pm

re: #521 Dark_Falcon

Actually, Gus, it doesn't say anything about the Christie administration's reasoning.

What's his reasoning then? Other then being an ass.

523 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:26:55pm

re: #501 yasharki

My Rabbe likes to say "If you're so smart, why are you so poor"?

If you are so dumb, why are you so rich?

Gee, seems to apply to many of the rich.

;)

524 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:27:08pm

re: #512 Stanley Sea

Sully has some issues. I'm not gonna melt down or anything, but he has at least latched onto one absurd conspiracy theory, and gnawed at it like a bulldog with a meaty bone.

I hope you'll understand if I don't find him to be very reasonable.

525 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:27:50pm

re: #522 recusancy

What's his reasoning then? Other then being an ass.

I guarantee you that every employee affected is pissed off & feels ripped off.

Not cool and typical.

526 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:28:17pm

re: #522 recusancy

What's his reasoning then? Other then being an ass.

It might on advise of his lawyers. I don't know.

527 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:28:26pm

re: #525 Stanley Sea

I guarantee you that every employee affected is pissed off & feels ripped off.

Not cool and typical.

And he did this with a month or so warning?

528 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:28:44pm

re: #425 HappyWarrior

Have you read much about the Celts in Ireland? Their bronze age gold artwork is amazing.[Link: www.visual-arts-cork.com...]

529 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:28:58pm

re: #524 Slumbering Behemoth

Sully has some issues. I'm not gonna melt down or anything, but he has at least latched onto one absurd conspiracy theory, and gnawed at it like a bulldog with a meaty bone.

I hope you'll understand if I don't find him to be very reasonable.

Quite Concur.

530 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:29:43pm

I think i've discovered the grotesquely dysfunctional equivalent of Tommy Gavin in Rescue Me: Angie. Truly impressive. I still dig the show but WOW...social dysfunction city.

531 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:31:04pm

re: #510 engineer dog

Mo money, mo problems.

533 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:31:37pm

re: #524 Slumbering Behemoth

Sully has some issues. I'm not gonna melt down or anything, but he has at least latched onto one absurd conspiracy theory, and gnawed at it like a bulldog with a meaty bone.

I hope you'll understand if I don't find him to be very reasonable.

re: #529 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

I guess that's the point. I remember people (not missed) who would have melted with the fury that caused me to question their home life!

It's more tolerant now I guess? Disagreement yes, absolutely, but the vitriol is missing and I notice it.

534 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:32:10pm

re: #529 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

Leave the baby the Hell alone! While I wonder about Sarah taking a long flight after her water when she was pregnant, that baby is hers and it is bone ignorant to think otherwise.

I like the "view from my window."

535 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:33:09pm

re: #530 eclectic infidel

I think i've discovered the grotesquely dysfunctional equivalent of Tommy Gavin in Rescue Me: Angie. Truly impressive. I still dig the show but WOW...social dysfunction city.

You are still watching!!! LOL. Hate that there's only 8 shows every 3 years. (it seems)

536 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:34:44pm

re: #533 Stanley Sea

Well, there are still pockets of vitriol, name calling, epithets and the like, but it certainly has toned down quite a bit.

537 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:34:46pm

Did ya'll hear about the voter in Philly who had to swear her address on the bible????

538 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:34:59pm

re: #535 Stanley Sea

You are still watching!!! LOL. Hate that there's only 8 shows every 3 years. (it seems)

I'm working on Season 3. Thus far, each season has 13 episodes.

539 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:37:06pm

re: #534 prairiefire

It was tasteless and brain dead. Absent of that, I'd likely give him a much fairer shake than I'm willing too now.

540 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:42:07pm

re: #537 Stanley Sea

Did ya'll hear about the voter in Philly who had to swear her address on the bible???

:places hand on the bible: "I live at mother-fucking 825 Anywhere Dr., gawt-damned Anytown, in cock sucking Anystate, in the United States of gawt-damned America, mother fucker!"
/that's how I woulda done it, anyway...

541 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:48:48pm

re: #428 Dark_Falcon

Sorry if I got people annoyed. I wanted a quiet night tonight. It's my birthday. I haven't celebrated much, though. Just wanted to get through today.

It's just another day.
*smooch*
And Happy Wishes for your next year!

542 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:49:01pm

re: #537 Stanley Sea

Did ya'll hear about the voter in Philly who had to swear her address on the bible???

ID wasn't enough? My, my, the thoughts going through my head right now if I was in that situation...

543 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:50:46pm

re: #541 Floral Giraffe

It's just another day.
*smooch*
And Happy Wishes for your next year!

Thanks.

544 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:51:13pm

re: #542 eclectic infidel

ID wasn't enough? My, my, the thoughts going through my head right now if I was in that situation...

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Brad Friedman / HuffPo, but The Brad Blog first reported it, he wrote this in HP

545 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:54:53pm

re: #544 Stanley Sea

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Brad Friedman / HuffPo, but The Brad Blog first reported it, he wrote this in HP

Thanks.

Suffice to say if that was me, I'd refuse. If pushed, well, I suppose I could spit on it - First Amendment rights and all.

Yeah. I feel rather strongly about this sort of thing.

546 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:58:28pm

re: #545 eclectic infidel

Suffice to say if that was me, I'd refuse.

If it were me, and I were in a plucky mood, I'd say "Okay, but you should know I am a satanist". Then I would place my hand on the bible, quickly pulling it away, screaming and writhing in pain as though I had been severely burned.
/stupid a-holes like that deserve to be mocked, I think.

547 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 7:59:29pm

re: #546 Slumbering Behemoth

If it were me, and I were in a plucky mood, I'd say "Okay, but you should know I am a satanist". Then I would place my hand on the bible, quickly pulling it away, screaming and writhing in pain as though I had been severely burned.
/stupid a-holes like that deserve to be mocked, I think.

You know, I like that. Creative, and admittedly, doesn't require the release of any bodily fluids that could result in an escalation of things.

548 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:03:01pm

re: #547 eclectic infidel

You know, I like that. Creative, and admittedly, doesn't require the release of any bodily fluids that could result in an escalation of things.

Heh. And then I would say "Ha! Just kidding, I'm not really burned. I mean, c'mon. As I'm sure you well know, even The Devil can swear on a stack of bibles". Then I would laugh manically.

549 prairiefire  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:07:50pm

re: #506 lostlakehiker

You had to be exceptionally unlucky to be down 30 percent, assuming you held on when the market tanked and now have recovered some. And it's not a cesspool. It's a bubble that popped. Not to say I saw it coming, but my losses are my own damned fault and yours are yours.

Hmmm, down 70%, up 40% currently. I think that equals "down 30%." For myself.

550 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:10:11pm

re: #546 Slumbering Behemoth

If it were me, and I were in a plucky mood, I'd say "Okay, but you should know I am a satanist". Then I would place my hand on the bible, quickly pulling it away, screaming and writhing in pain as though I had been severely burned.
/stupid a-holes like that deserve to be mocked, I think.

re: #548 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh. And then I would say "Ha! Just kidding, I'm not really burned. I mean, c'mon. As I'm sure you well know, even The Devil can swear on a stack of bibles". Then I would laugh manically.

The thing is, when actually faced with that situation on voting day, I'd hope I'd react accordingly. Or just be like that lady and do it to vote....damn it.

551 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:14:23pm

re: #550 Stanley Sea

Well, you can't be kept from voting because of such a ridiculous event. I'd be willing to spend all day, even lose a job, just to make a point with stupid a-holes like that.

552 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:27:48pm

I take it back....Sheila. She still takes first place. Just incredible writing in this show.

553 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:30:44pm

re: #552 eclectic infidel

I take it back...Sheila. She still takes first place. Just incredible writing in this show.

Sheila is nuttso.

I loved her 1st season, after that, er no.

554 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:33:35pm

re: #553 Stanley Sea

Sheila is nuttso.

I loved her 1st season, after that, er no.

Yeah. She needs help. Tommy does too, but what she just did in episode 7, Satisfaction, really takes the cake. Angie at least, or so it appears, has the capacity to reflect on her behavior. She's still making bad choices but there may be hope for her.

555 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:35:23pm

re: #554 eclectic infidel

Yeah. She needs help. Tommy does too, but what she just did in episode 7, Satisfaction, really takes the cake. Angie at least, or so it appears, has the capacity to reflect on her behavior. She's still making bad choices but there may be hope for her.

What's my favorite Franco up to?

556 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:37:54pm

re: #555 Stanley Sea

What's my favorite Franco up to?

He's taken an interesting turn. His little girl has been temporarily "adopted" by his gf/lover played by Susan Sarandon. Ever since Lauren left him, he's been monogamous.

557 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:38:55pm

re: #550 Stanley Sea

re: #548 Slumbering Behemoth

The thing is, when actually faced with that situation on voting day, I'd hope I'd react accordingly. Or just be like that lady and do it to vote...damn it.

I'd swear without any problem, but then again I'm a Christian so it's not the same thing.

558 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:40:46pm

re: #556 eclectic infidel

He's taken an interesting turn. His little girl has been temporarily "adopted" by his gf/lover played by Susan Sarandon. Ever since Lauren left him, he's been monogamous.

Oh that season! Oh wow!

It all melds together. Is Tommy's cop bro around? Is one of Tommy's relatives in prison? (don't want to give too many clues)

559 Lidane  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:42:28pm

re: #545 eclectic infidel

I'd tell anyone who tried that with me that my valid voter registration card and photo ID are enough, refuse to put my hand on the Bible, and vote anyway. Fuck them if they try to interfere after that.

WTF? People are going to vote, not testify in court. =P

560 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:45:32pm

re: #557 Dark_Falcon

I'd swear without any problem, but then again I'm a Christian so it's not the same thing.

That's the point. What value is there in swearing on the bible for those who are not Christian? I mean, constitutional violations aside.

P.S. I appreciate that you're a Christian with a sense of humor, and one capable of weathering my pseudo-blasphemy without taking it personally.

561 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:53:18pm

re: #558 Stanley Sea

Oh that season! Oh wow!

It all melds together. Is Tommy's cop bro around? Is one of Tommy's relatives in prison? (don't want to give too many clues)

It's all good. Tommy's brother is living with his ex-wife now but she's already cheating on him, with Tommy, no less. The big uncle shot and killed the drunk driver who ran down Tommy's son. He was convicted of first degree murder and locked away - but it looks like he may get out as MADD considers him a hero and wants him released.

562 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 8:57:18pm

re: #561 eclectic infidel

It's all good. Tommy's brother is living with his ex-wife now but she's already cheating on him, with Tommy, no less. The big uncle shot and killed the drunk driver who ran down Tommy's son. He was convicted of first degree murder and locked away - but it looks like he may get out as MADD considers him a hero and wants him released.

You are watching the best season. I really need to re-watch. What year is that?

563 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 9:23:03pm

re: #562 Stanley Sea

You are watching the best season. I really need to re-watch. What year is that?

I think 2006.

564 Stanghazi  Wed, Nov 10, 2010 9:41:15pm

re: #563 eclectic infidel

I think 2006.

You know the actor - Tommy's bro, is the new chaos guy for Nationwide (I think) auto insurance? I think he is awesome.

565 ihateronpaul  Thu, Nov 11, 2010 8:30:48am

The Fiscal Commission report "200$ Billion in Illustrative Savings" is FUCKING BULLSHIT. I feel like this section I excerpted with commentary proves my point:

Image: militaryindustrialslave.jpg

566 Obdicut  Thu, Nov 11, 2010 6:32:31pm

re: #565 ihateronpaul

That's pretty frothy, dude. People in the military really make jack shit already. I don't think denying them pay raises is a big deal.

We pay seamen less than minimum wage.

567 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Nov 11, 2010 8:37:25pm

re: #106 albusteve

bullshit...show me where Dobbs is xenophobic...illegal immigration is a gigantic problem and you reduce your opposition to xenophobes...tripe

Making up crazy nonsense that doesn't exist that makes immigrants look bad, insane conspiracy theories about Mexico and illegal immigrants being a leprosy scourge or forcing a nafta super-highway, etc etc, go down the list

All those were lies Dobbs was telling, all those lies were xenophobic in nature

568 seran  Fri, Nov 12, 2010 10:22:50am

So long, and thanks for all the fish!


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