Arizona’s White Nationalist Senate President Russell Pearce Gets the Boot

An extraordinary sea change in Arizona politics
Politics • Views: 22,957

More excellent news tonight: Arizona Topples Senate President Russell Pearce, SB 1070 Immigration Law Architect, in Historic Recall Vote.

According to the Maricopa County Recorder Elections Department, Republican moderate and SB 1070 opponent Jerry Lewis overcame the Pearce campaign’s series of dirty tricks and election war chest to win 53.4% to 45.3%. in a contest that divided the city’s influential Mormon Church.

“This is a huge shift,” said Randy Parraz, co-founder of the Citizens for a Better Arizona, which organized the recall drive in one of the most conservative districts in the state. “Russell Pearce is not only too extreme, but had remained untouched. This election shows that such extremist behavior will not be rewarded, and will be held accountable.”

Considered the de facto governor of Arizona, the seemingly invincible and right-wing extremist Pearce became the first state Senate president in American history to be thrown out of office in a recall election.

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437 comments
1 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:54:02pm

So, does this mean they still support SB 1070? Surely, the Republican majority and their psycho governor aren't going to let a little old election get in the way of their mandate.

2 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:54:14pm

I'll be watching at the next GOP "debate" to see if any of the talking points change after today's elections.

3 Kragar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:54:45pm

Good. Now recall that hack Jan Brewer!

4 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:54:45pm

Good riddance to bad rubbish!

5 erik_t  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:54:56pm

I remember that piece of shit from my time in Tempe. Truly a scurry-under-the-rock sort of creature.

Even Arizona has hope, sometimes. Even in the quasi-'burbs. Such things ought not be forgotten.

6 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:55:10pm

I hate Arizona nazis!

7 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:55:10pm

What an awesome night. My faith in Americans has been rejuvenated. And as you know for me to have faith takes almost miracle. ;)

8 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:55:34pm

I get the feeling that, somewhere in the governor's mansion in Wisconsin, Walker's getting a might nervous.

9 jaunte  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:55:52pm

Eat ballots, nullificationist!

10 dragonfire1981  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:56:37pm

In related news, Fox News is please to welcome its newest contributor, Russell Pearce.

11 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:57:45pm

@AndrewKroll Andy Kroll
Heck of a night for Dems. Ohio, KY, ME, MS, IA, MI. Prob missing something. 2010 blowback. Will it carry into 2012? #issue2

12 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:58:24pm

Michigan Rep. Scott got recalled too.

13 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:58:44pm

Fucking aye! This is great.

14 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:58:58pm

Now if the Dems can keep up this momentum.
It ain't over yet.
But I'm still doing the happy dance.

15 austin_blue  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:59:15pm

Good. The blowback has commenced.

And goodnight.

16 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 8:59:24pm

re: #11 Gus 802

@AndrewKroll Andy Kroll
Heck of a night for Dems. Ohio, KY, ME, MS, IA, MI. Prob missing something. 2010 blowback. Will it carry into 2012? #issue2

2010 was a mandate against Obama! 2011 doesn't count!

18 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:00:16pm

Here's a better article on the story from Bloomburg via Businessweek. More to the point and honestly unbiased.

19 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:00:39pm

re: #14 OhNoZombies!

Now if the Dems can keep up this momentum.
It ain't over yet.
But I'm still doing the happy dance.

It's going to be a close one here in VA. The GOP's within one seat of taking a working majority in the state senate, with 2 races still up in the air.

20 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:00:45pm

re: #8 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I get the feeling that, somewhere in the governor's mansion in Wisconsin, Walker's getting a might nervous.

Seriously, he's not. One - he's not smart enough. Two - he really believes he's doing God's work. He won't understand until the voters kick him out and the Fed's indict him for his Milwaukee county corruption.

21 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:02:14pm

@markos Markos Moulitsas
Two years ago, teabaggers took over Wake County NC's school board. Today, Dems finished sweeping them out of power: [Link: is.gd...]

22 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:02:24pm

Boom! Boom! Boom!

23 darthstar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:02:51pm

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

Here's a better article on the story from Bloomburg via Businessweek. More to the point and honestly unbiased.

Oh yes, a more to the point site is preferable, by far...the Huffington Post could lead to dancing and heavy petting.

24 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:03:12pm

re: #19 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Keeping fingers crossed.
:-)

25 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:03:13pm

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Herman Cain Thinks He Should Be On Mount Rushmore

Image: Fry_SideEye.jpg

Personally, I think it laughable that the general consensus was Reagan. Could one of them name one real accomplishment of his presidency that puts him in the same league?

26 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:03:32pm

re: #20 wlewisiii

Seriously, he's not. One - he's not smart enough. Two - he really believes he's doing God's work. He won't understand until the voters kick him out and the Fed's indict him for his Milwaukee county corruption.

What about Waukesha (sp?) county, though? That's a place so blood-red I fear it would have passed the personhood amendment, and they have a knack for buggering up close elections with magical Microsoft Access ballots :(

27 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:03:58pm

re: #11 Gus 802

Now, we just need to make sure that the Conservative can't get back into power. Get these voter suppression laws out, and get immigration among the disenchanted in Egypt up.

Funneling several million of the disenchanted young people in Egypt whose revolution has failed into the Upper Midwest, especially Michigan, will have a fantastic effect.

28 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:04:25pm

Evening all!

29 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:04:37pm

re: #26 publicityStunted

They also fudge election results like one wouldn't believe.

30 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:05:23pm

The Iowa result (PDF) was over the control of the Iowa Senate, which the Dems held by 1 vote and that vote was moving on to an appointed position by the governor (a plan by the GOP governor to change the composition of the IA senate). If the Dems would have lost that seat then they would not have been able to stop the right wing agenda by the GOP controlled IA House.

31 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:06:03pm

Hot damn. I feel like partying now.

Andy Kroll
@AndrewKroll Andy Kroll
“MT @marclacey: "It's a sad day,'' said Sheriff Arpaio, who stood at Russell Pearce's side as the politician conceded defeat.”

32 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:06:28pm

re: #31 Gus 802

Your next, Arpaio!!

33 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:06:45pm

See this middle finger right wingers? It's for you!

Woohoo!

34 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:06:50pm

re: #32 ProLifeLiberal

Your next, Arpaio!!

Your lips to God's ear.

35 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:06:55pm

Looks like it was Republican Mormon vs. Republican Mormon.

One of the issues is what is called the Utah Compact, which I have been watching for some time.

link here:

[Link: www.theutahcompact.com...]

36 erik_t  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:07:15pm

re: #25 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, I think it laughable that the general consensus was Reagan. Could one of them name one real accomplishment of his presidency that puts him in the same league?

Nothing that wouldn't paint St. Ronnie as a Marxist in their eyes.

37 dragonath  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:07:59pm

Holy cow! I don't think I've ever seen so many recall initiatives succeed.

Mainers Repeal Voter Registration Change

Yeah!

38 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:08:01pm

re: #27 ProLifeLiberal

Now, we just need to make sure that the Conservative can't get back into power. Get these voter suppression laws out, and get immigration among the disenchanted in Egypt up.

Funneling several million of the disenchanted young people in Egypt whose revolution has failed into the Uppper Midwest, especially Michigan, will have a fantastic effect.

Your dream is my nightmare, and strikes me as utter folly. I don't want to import angry people from an alien culture who've been raised in a media environment dominated by anti-American, anti-Jewish, and anti-Christian propaganda.

You would bring the people who attacked the Israeli Embassy in Cairo here! That's importing a 5th Column in my eyes.

39 jaunte  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:08:18pm

Texas GOP caught going a little too far with redistricting:

Federal Judges Will Draw New Political Maps for Texas

"Today's ruling supports what leaders of the Mexican American Legislative Caucus have been saying for months — the Republican Leadership discriminated against minorities by seeking to grow their political influence in the halls of Congress and the Texas House while ignoring the demographic reality of those responsible for our state's population growth," said state Rep. Trey Martinez Fischer, D-San Antonio, chairman of MALC, in a statement.

"The real losers in this process are the voters," said Boyd Richie, chairman of the Texas Democratic Party, in a press release. "Texas voters are seeing Republican discrimination and obstructionism at all levels but don’t know which Republicans they’ll have a chance to vote against this election cycle. This entire process could have been avoided if Republicans would have drawn maps based on demographics rather than their own shallow political ambitions."

40 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:08:29pm

re: #33 Gus 802

We need a picture full of middle fingers.

Not just, mind you, but very many.

41 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:09:29pm

re: #23 darthstar

Oh yes, a more to the point site is preferable, by far...the Huffington Post could lead to dancing and heavy petting.

Forgive me if a find a more neutral article more valuable for finding out what happened.

/

42 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:10:43pm

Epic. Republicans suffered a huge setback tonight. Talk about a blowback. An utter rejection of the far-right elements intent on taking over this country. Too awesome for words.

43 Interesting Times  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:10:51pm

re: #33 Gus 802

See this middle finger right wingers? It's for you!

Tsk, tsk. Now look what you've done.

44 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:11:19pm

re: #36 erik_t

Nothing that wouldn't paint St. Ronnie as a Marxist in their eyes.

Only thing I can think of would be "End Cold War," but that's a joke. The end of the Cold War was such a confluence of happenstance and coincidences that giving one person all the credit would be dishonest. And even then, he'd already left office when the Berlin Wall fell and the USSR dissolved. So he'd have to share credit with Bush Sr, who was in office when both events happened.

45 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:13:38pm

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

A huge number of Egyptians were unhappy with that event. Remember, the SCAF has sided with the Salafis and the Muslim Brotherhood. There's a reason the Copts are having such a horrible time.

I suggest taking the most educated of these now dissaffected people and transplanting them here. It would break the back of the Conservatives in the Midwest for decades.

I can play a good game of hardball. I learned to in Colorado Springs.

Also, accusing an ethnic group of being a Fifth Column is nasty. I suggest watching All-American Muslim on TLC, which starts next week.

46 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:14:45pm

re: #39 jaunte

Federal Judges Will Draw New Political Maps for Texas

TYRANTS IN BLACK ROBES!!

47 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:14:57pm

Hey, didn't i hear something about the court of appeals saying the ACA is completely Constitutional?
Today is a good day.

48 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:15:54pm

re: #36 erik_t

Nothing that wouldn't paint St. Ronnie as a Marxist in their eyes.

Ronald W. Reagan is like Robert E. Lee in one (and only one) way: Both are historical figures "frozen inside the marble myth" (to use Robert Leckie's description of how Lee is viewed). Those who claim to admire either man the most tend not to actually know the real historical figure at all.

49 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:16:00pm

One of the Stepford Men responds...

@jmattbarber Matt Barber
Note to death lovers: A setback in MS? Yes. The end of Personhood civil rights movement? Not even close #GodWillNotBeMocked

That's the same asshole (one of a few) that's behind Awakening 2012 that Netanyahu is allegedly going to send a video message too.

50 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:16:14pm

Activist Voters!!!1!!!

51 jaunte  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:16:20pm

YU missed!

A black asteroid as big as an aircraft carrier zoomed past Earth on Tuesday, delighting astronomers who trained telescopes on the ancient body in hopes of learning more about its composition and origin.

With a diameter estimated at 400 meters, or about a quarter of a mile, Asteroid 2005 YU 55 is the biggest asteroid to make a close pass by Earth since 1976.

During its closest approach, which occurred at 6:28 p.m. EST (2328 GMT), it was inside the orbit of the moon, about 200,000 miles (322,000 km) above the planet.
[Link: timesofindia.indiatimes.com...]

52 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:16:54pm

re: #46 freetoken

And, maybe silly wigs?
NAH?

Youtube Video

Hattip to Obdicut, he posted it earlier!
53 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:17:02pm

re: #49 Gus 802

One of the Stepford Men responds...

@jmattbarber Matt Barber
Note to death lovers: A setback in MS? Yes. The end of Personhood civil rights movement? Not even close #GodWillNotBeMocked

That's the same asshole (one of a few) that's behind Awakening 2012 that Netanyahu is allegedly going to send a video message too.

In 2009, J. Matt Barber, formerly with Concerned Women for America and Americans for Truth About Homosexuality (see above for both), joined Liberty Counsel as director of cultural affairs (also becoming Liberty University’s associate dean for career and professional development). A year earlier, Barber had argued that given “medical evidence about the dangers of homosexuality,” it should be considered “criminally reckless for educators to teach children that homosexual conduct is a normal, safe and perfectly acceptable alternative.”

54 erik_t  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:17:32pm

For anyone who was confused, I guess I forgot lots of purple Comic Sans. I am, uh, less than a huge super duper fan of Ronald Reagan.

55 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:17:44pm

re: #47 OhNoZombies!

Hey, didn't i hear something about the court of appeals say the ACA is completely Constitutional?
Today is a good day.

DC Appeals Court, which is advertised as one of the most conservative in the land, agreed with the government's argument that not buying health insurance is itself an economic choice and thus falls under the government's ability to regulate via the Commerce Clause.

The single dissenting opinion was a Dubya appointee, whose rather weak dissenting opinion is that the law shouldn't be ruled upon until it's actually gone into effect in its entirety.

56 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:18:04pm

re: #45 ProLifeLiberal

A huge number of Egyptians were unhappy with that event. Remember, the SCAF has sided with the Salafis and the Muslim Brotherhood. There's a reason the Copts are having such a horrible time.

I suggest taking the most educated of these now dissaffected people and transplanting them here. It would break the back of the Conservatives in the Midwest for decades.

I can play a good game of hardball. I learned to in Colorado Springs.

Also, accusing an ethnic group of being a Fifth Column is nasty. I suggest watching All-American Muslim on TLC, which starts next week.

No going to happen. That would require an act of Congress, and an act to that effect will not pass the Senate, not this year nor in 2013, whoever is president.

57 jaunte  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:18:54pm

re: #53 Gus 802

Director of cultural affairs?

???

58 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:21:03pm

Oh brother...

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Seriously?

59 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:21:22pm

I just fooking debunked that here.

60 jaunte  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:21:26pm

re: #57 jaunte

Director of cultural affairs?

???

I guess it sounds more impressive than VP of Tweetspats

61 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:21:49pm

One commenter over at HotWingnuts, in trying to explain what happened tonight, declares:

The GOP has been doing its very best to alienate Tea Party voters at every turn. And you’re seeing it in the results of ballots since the 2010 midterms. What did the Tea Party get in return for returning control of the House to the Republicans?

Yeah, that's it - the GOP just hasn't been Tea-Party-ish enough.

MP3 Audio
62 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:22:22pm

I'm not even going to bother trying to convince this dope. Right wingers just don't listen. It's a waste of time and energy.

63 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:22:52pm

re: #61 freetoken

One commenter over at HotWingnuts, in trying to explain what happened tonight, declares:

Yeah, that's it - the GOP just hasn't been Tea-Party-ish enough.

[Video]

I'm not exactly understanding that. Is the argument that the GOP, in not being "Tea Party enough," drove TPers away from the polls and thus killed these bills?

64 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:23:09pm

re: #56 Dark_Falcon

That's a good chunk for why I want major immigration.

The Conservatives/Tea Party are losing power demographically, as they tend older. Each year, they get a bit weaker. Eventually, the Liberals win out.

I just want to accelerate it.

Egypt's revolution has failed. It is the equivalent of Germany after the 1848 Revolution. Time to see the massive opportunity, both in workforce, and politically.

65 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:24:13pm

re: #63 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm not exactly understand that. Is the argument that the GOP, in not being "Tea Party enough," drove TPers away from the polls and thus killed these bills?

Yup, that's it - the Tea Partiers didn't turn out because the GOP just wasn't Tea Party enough.

66 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:25:51pm

re: #65 freetoken

Yup, that's it - the Tea Partiers didn't turn out because the GOP just wasn't Tea Party enough.

Grand to hear. I hope the GOP continues to not be "Tea Party enough" into next year, because watching the TPers avoid the polls like the frakin' plague will be absolutely wonderful.

67 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:27:04pm

Pfft. Hey. We should stop getting on Cain's case. The GOP should run him for prez in 2012. Seriously.

68 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:28:30pm

Speaking of "debates", apparently there is another one tomorrow night.

[Link: www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com...]

It's going to be in Michigan - wonder if Perry and Cain will get as much love there as in other places.

69 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:30:31pm

re: #65 freetoken

Yup, that's it - the Tea Partiers didn't turn out because the GOP just wasn't Tea Party enough.

i've been waiting patiently for the tea partiers to get angry enough to make the definitive break with the rest of the gop

70 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:32:20pm

re: #69 engineer dog

i've been waiting patiently for the tea partiers to get angry enough to make the definitive break with the rest of the gop

Hasn't happened quite yet, but it's coming. I'd say around mid-spring next year, when Romney starts taking a healthy lead in the primaries. That's when they'll begin screaming that the game's rigged and refuse to take part in it any longer.

71 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:33:12pm

re: #68 freetoken

Speaking of "debates", apparently there is another one tomorrow night.

[Link: www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com...]

It's going to be in Michigan - wonder if Perry and Cain will get as much love there as in other places.

Unlikely. Mitt Romney has held the lead in the Wolverine State from the beginning. His name still stands well there, and it would take a negative miracle for Mitt to lose Michigan in the primary.

72 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:36:35pm

re: #70 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hasn't happened quite yet, but it's coming. I'd say around mid-spring next year, when Romney starts taking a healthy lead in the primaries. That's when they'll begin screaming that the game's rigged and refuse to take part in it any longer.

Promise? Can it happen sooner?

73 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:37:28pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Unlikely. Mitt Romney has held the lead in the Wolverine State from the beginning. His name still stands well there, and it would take a negative miracle for Mitt to lose Michigan in the primary.

Yeah but the Protestants are still scared of Mormons. Too funny for words. GOP is going down next year. I'm going to personally see to it.

@BarackObama Barack Obama
Congratulations to volunteers across the country on your great work today—shout-out to @OFA_OH for voting #NoOn2 and protecting OH workers.

74 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:38:57pm

re: #72 ggt

Promise? Can it happen sooner?

Possibly, but right now, odds are that the Tea Party still believes it has enough pull in the party to put the guy its wants at the top of the presidential ticket. When that fails to happen, the excuse-making will end and the shit-slinging will begin.

76 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:39:58pm

re: #70 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Hasn't happened quite yet, but it's coming. I'd say around mid-spring next year, when Romney starts taking a healthy lead in the primaries. That's when they'll begin screaming that the game's rigged and refuse to take part in it any longer.

i find it kind of peculiar that anne coulter and now just the other day erick redstate erickson have both said flat out if romney is nominated the gop loses

77 recusancy  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:42:37pm

re: #76 engineer dog

i find it kind of peculiar that anne coulter and now just the other day erick redstate erickson have both said flat out if romney is nominated the gop loses

She said the same thing about McCain.

78 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:43:10pm

re: #76 engineer dog

i find it kind of peculiar that anne coulter and now just the other day erick redstate erickson have both said flat out if romney is nominated the gop loses

They are trying their best to rationalize why their ideas are getting such blowback from the average American. So, they are going to blame the obvious impending national-level messenger, and not the message itself.

Both Coulter and Erickson probably also think, like the HotWingnuts commenter, that the GOP hasn't rewarded the Tea Partiers enough, and nominating Romney would be just the ticket (in their minds) to convince them of that.

79 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:43:37pm

Castles Made of Sand - Jimi Hendrix

Youtube Video

If you're enjoying your freedom thank a hippie.

80 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:44:30pm

re: #76 engineer dog

i find it kind of peculiar that anne coulter and now just the other day erick redstate erickson have both said flat out if romney is nominated the gop loses

That's because he's the Kerry of the '12 presidential election, the guy who nobody really wants but is the least offensive of the pack. Nobody's excited about him, nobody thinks he'll accomplish anything, and nobody has high hopes for his presidency. With such a guy at the top of the ticket, the only viable campaign strategy is going negative, trying to make Obama out as the "Worst President Ever." It relies upon things staying bad or getting worse, which is not the sort of thing most voters respond positively to.

81 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:46:22pm

Goodnight, all.

82 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:48:12pm

Right wing got whacked tonight! Too awesome for words.

83 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:50:49pm
The problem for Romney is that, while most Americans would like to see fewer abortions, an overwhelming majority do not think that government should have a role in deciding whether a woman should have an abortion. A recent nationwide survey conducted by PNW shows that 80% of likely voters agreed with the statement that "government should not be getting involved in the decision to end a pregnancy, it's better left to a woman, her family and her faith."

If recent history is any indication, Romney is at serious risk of alienating mainstream voters. In 2010, Colorado Senate candidate Ken Buck's early support for the Personhood amendment was effectively used against him in the general election. The initiative, which had already lost by a wide margin in 2008, was trounced in 2010, with roughly 70 percent voting against the measure -- including every Colorado county -- in what was considered a strong year for conservatives.

I can't wait to watch Mitt "'As Consistent As Human Beings Can Be" Romney try to flip flop again if he gets the nomination. The man is the most pathetic, despicable, dishonest chameleon imaginable. He and his supporters really are the People of the Lie, they must wake up every morning and digest a dozen different dissonant ideas before breakfast, then go out and happily regurgitate them in public. It's a philosophy of pure political expedience, no integrity whatsoever. Whatever godawful lie they need to sell that day is on the menu and sold with gusto.

84 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:51:06pm

re: #82 Gus 802

Didn't the GOP take over two legislatures, though?

85 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:51:51pm

re: #84 freetoken

Didn't the GOP take over two legislatures, though?

VA and NM?

86 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:52:27pm

Bleh. Maybe they did. Fuck the right wing.

87 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:56:58pm

Most courts and judges strike down Republican legislation though. Nothing to really worry about.

88 sagehen  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:57:32pm

This has been a really happy election night overall... but is it a blip, or do we think it's a bellweather for next year?

89 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:58:49pm

re: #84 freetoken

Didn't the GOP take over two legislatures, though?

They took over the VA Senate, but only by breaking it into a 50/50 split, which means the Lt. Gov now holds the tie-breaking vote.

90 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 9:59:29pm

re: #88 sagehen

Off year elections have such little turnout that it is hard to tell.

91 freetoken  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:00:12pm

re: #87 Gus 802

Most courts and judges strike down Republican legislation though.

TYRANTS IN BLACK ROBES!!2

92 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:00:20pm

re: #88 sagehen

This has been a really happy election night overall... but is it a blip, or do we think it's a bellweather for next year?

Oregon's election is going to go Democrat. In terms of demographics, the current Dem nominee would have to get caught selling crack to school children.

However, it was re-districted in 2010, so the NEXT election might be different.

93 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:01:18pm

re: #91 freetoken

TYRANTS IN BLACK ROBES!!2

Voodoo Child! They're running scared. Maybe they won two houses. But heck. I seem to have enough power to scare these moron right wingers. I love it.

94 engineer cat  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:03:15pm

re: #88 sagehen

This has been a really happy election night overall... but is it a blip, or do we think it's a bellweather for next year?

gop shows no sign of taking its aim off of its feet, so if there is any lift in the economy next year things will probably work out well for democrats

obama has designed a little conundrum for them in that the extension of the bush tax cuts will loom just around election time

imagine the gop going into a presidential election desperately defending the tax cuts for millionaires because the avenging angel grover will smite you if you don't

95 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:05:29pm

Interactive Map showing the explosion in Food Stamp Distribution.

Our system is breaking down, IMHO. 20% of people in Mississippi are on Food Stamps. 15 in Illinois. It shouldn't be that high--no?

96 Targetpractice  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:06:01pm

Well, that's enough for me for the night. Time for this political junkie to grab a few winks. Anybody needs me, I'll be in my bunk.

97 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:06:21pm

I'm not scared. I can die tomorrow and it won't matter to me.

Machine Gun - Jimi Hendrix

Youtube Video

Maybe we haven't won the war yet but we sure did win this battle. The fight goes on. Don't stop fighting.

98 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:06:56pm

re: #61 freetoken

One commenter over at HotWingnuts, in trying to explain what happened tonight, declares:

Yeah, that's it - the GOP just hasn't been Tea-Party-ish enough.

[Video]

THat's their answer to everything. If we just go Full Metal Wingnut enough, the people will follow us.

99 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:08:11pm

If I understand this correctly:

Basically, anyone working a minimum wage job qualifies for SNAP.

Minimum wage is not a living wage.

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:08:19pm

re: #73 Gus 802

Yeah but the Protestants are still scared of Mormons. Too funny for words. GOP is going down next year. I'm going to personally see to it.

Fundamentalist Protestants.

Your average Lutheran on the street is not especially nervous about Mormons.

101 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:09:16pm

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

Fundamentalist Protestants.

Your average Lutheran on the street is not especially nervous about Mormons.

WHACKO's™

102 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:09:24pm

re: #100 SanFranciscoZionist

Fundamentalist Protestants.

Your average Lutheran on the street is not especially nervous about Mormons.

I didn't know that.

//

103 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:09:44pm

About
effn
time.

104 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:11:20pm

BRB. Gonna look at the Moon and Jupiter and have a smoke.

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:11:46pm

Ed Lee is comfortably ahead in San Francisco.

I shall cross my fingers.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:12:18pm

re: #102 Gus 802

I didn't know that.

//

You should hang out with more Lutherans, then.

107 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:16:15pm

Going to bed.

BTW, Old Man Dog seems much better today --no vet visit.

He even romped and wrestled hard with Bother Puppy!

108 CuriousLurker  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:19:39pm

All I can say about today's events is that it's good to see swaths of Americans coming back to their senses. I think I'll sleep better tonight. :)

Goodnight, everyone.

110 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:20:56pm

re: #106 SanFranciscoZionist

You should hang out with more Lutherans, then.

Yeah. I don't have to though. I'm smart enough to know that if I encounter a good Mormon that's good enough for my atheist self. I never judge people by their belief or disbelief. I was speaking in generalities about the average Protestant Republican that hypocritically consider Mormonism a cult when they themselves belong to their very own cult -- just like I belong to my own cult. I've know a few in my time.

111 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:23:50pm

Radiohead - The Creep

Youtube Video
112 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:32:42pm

A bad day for the TeaParty and/or wingnuts.

113 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:33:58pm

re: #112 Varek Raith

A bad day for the TeaPary and/or wingnuts.

Green Day - American Idiot

Youtube Video
114 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:35:30pm

re: #110 Gus 802

Yeah. I don't have to though. I'm smart enough to know that if I encounter a good Mormon that's good enough for my atheist self. I never judge people by their belief or disbelief. I was speaking in generalities about the average Protestant Republican that hypocritically consider Mormonism a cult when they themselves belong to their very own cult -- just like I belong to my own cult. I've know a few in my time.

Oh, Gus. I've been part of the Protestant Republican cult. You are no cult member.

115 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:38:15pm

re: #114 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Oh, Gus. I've been part of the Protestant Republican cult. You are no cult member.

He can join one of the many eeevil cults I belong to.
Being an eeevil overlord has its perks.
;)

116 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:39:03pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

Ed Lee is comfortably ahead in San Francisco.

I shall cross my fingers.

I've been a Yee person. The ranked choice voting for mayorshould make things really interesting. Well, at least for the ballot-counters.

117 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:39:59pm

re: #115 Varek Raith

He can join one of the many eeevil cults I belong to.
Being an eeevil overlord has its perks.
;)

Yah but do you guys throw good parties.

118 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:42:02pm

re: #117 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yah but do you guys throw good parties.

We sure do.

119 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:43:35pm

WTF

121 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:47:16pm

re: #119 Gus 802

WTF

klassy.

122 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:47:36pm

Right wingers are the most evil people ever to hit the Earth. Think about it. Hitler was a right winger. Stalin was a right winger. Mao was a right winger. Che Guevara was a right winger. Fidel Castro was right winger.

123 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:49:44pm

Stalin may have been an atheist but he was still mostly a right winger. Stalin had more in common with the Republican Party.

124 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:52:51pm

How many Republicans does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Zero. They're too stupid to be able to figure it out.

125 Lidane  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 10:53:12pm

re: #88 sagehen

This has been a really happy election night overall... but is it a blip, or do we think it's a bellweather for next year?

It all depends on what happens now. If the GOP doubles down on the stupid and doesn't learn anything from these defeats, tonight could be a bellwether.

It's too soon to tell, though. A lot can happen in a year.

126 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:00:09pm

Americans that vote Republican have battered wife syndrome.

127 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:01:40pm

Trent Reznor and Peter Murphy - Hurt

Youtube Video
128 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:02:50pm

re: #123 Gus 802

Stalin may have been an atheist but he was still mostly a right winger. Stalin had more in common with the Republican Party.

re: #122 Gus 802

Right wingers are the most evil people ever to hit the Earth. Think about it. Hitler was a right winger. Stalin was a right winger. Mao was a right winger. Che Guevara was a right winger. Fidel Castro was right winger.

The only reason American whackjob conservatives despise and resent Islamic fundies and other totalitarian bigots like Stalin and Pol Pot is because they are the competition. and just as good at eliminating everything and everyone in their path.

129 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:04:05pm

re: #127 Gus 802

Trent Reznor and Peter Murphy - Hurt

[Video]

ahh love me some Peter.

130 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:08:30pm

re: #128 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

re: #122 Gus 802

The only reason American whackjob conservatives despise and resent Islamic fundies and other totalitarian bigots like Stalin and Pol Pot is because they are the competition. and just as good at eliminating everything and everyone in their path.

Yep. I mentioned that the other night. That's why the USA is fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Competition. We even helped to create them. We created Saddam Hussein. We created Osama bin Laden. We support the Saudis. We defend the OPEC nations while pretending to defend Israel. America plays both sides. It really doesn't give a shit about those nations though. Not the people. As long as they, we, are making money. America is the greatest sell-out nation ever. We play both sides selling weapons to nations we pretend to defend.

131 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:10:02pm

re: #126 Gus 802

Americans that vote Republican have battered wife syndrome.

If you do not share in their collective, conformist self-loathing, you will be labeled elitist, and arrogant.

132 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:11:28pm

re: #131 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

If you do not share in their collective, conformist self-loathing, you will be labeled elitist, and arrogant.

The big tent. Heh. There is not big tent. The right wing is a very small tent.

133 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:12:47pm

The Republican Party is the modern day KKK.

134 lostlakehiker  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:16:32pm

re: #25 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Personally, I think it laughable that the general consensus was Reagan. Could one of them name one real accomplishment of his presidency that puts him in the same league?

Berlin Wall?

Reagan called for it to be torn down. That call surely had something to do with the actual result.

Anybody rate the fall of the Berlin wall as a bad thing? Anybody figure that it came down just by accident and hadn't anything to do with Reagan?

Of course it can't have been all Reagan. No one player wins a football game, much less a Cold War. But Reagan was one of the players, and that Mr. Gorbachev Tear Down This Wall speech was one of the key plays.

It's not enough to put him on Rushmore, but it's something.

Add to that a swift recovery from a recession, and the repair of the dollar after Carter's runaway inflation term of office, and you have a president whose off days and miscues and fumbles don't add up to enough of a negative to offset those 1 big and 2 medium pluses.

135 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:20:37pm

re: #134 lostlakehiker

Reagan called for it to be torn down. That call surely had something to do with the actual result.

That had nothing to do with the Soviets spending themselves into the crapper.
;)

Anybody rate the fall of the Berlin wall as a bad thing? Anybody figure that it came down just by accident and hadn't anything to do with Reagan?

The Soviet Unions was collapsing. It would've happened no matter who was Pres.

Add to that a swift recovery from a recession, and the repair of the dollar after Carter's runaway inflation term of office, and you have a president whose off days and miscues and fumbles don't add up to enough of a negative to offset those 1 big and 2 medium pluses.

Iran Contra. The funding and training of the Mujahideen.

136 Gus  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:20:57pm

re: #134 lostlakehiker

Berlin Wall?

Reagan called for it to be torn down. That call surely had something to do with the actual result.

Anybody rate the fall of the Berlin wall as a bad thing? Anybody figure that it came down just by accident and hadn't anything to do with Reagan?

Of course it can't have been all Reagan. No one player wins a football game, much less a Cold War. But Reagan was one of the players, and that Mr. Gorbachev Tear Down This Wall speech was one of the key plays.

It's not enough to put him on Rushmore, but it's something.

Add to that a swift recovery from a recession, and the repair of the dollar after Carter's runaway inflation term of office, and you have a president whose off days and miscues and fumbles don't add up to enough of a negative to offset those 1 big and 2 medium pluses.

Republican propaganda. The people that brought down the Eastern block wasn't the GOP nor Reagan. They did it themselves.

137 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:23:25pm

re: #133 Gus 802

The Republican Party is the modern day KKK.

Ohh but the modern day KKK is all about love, now. NOT hate!!!1@ They even say so on kkk.com! So what it's love of being white, SO WHAT!! Heritage, not hate!!!

138 lostlakehiker  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:27:05pm

re: #64 ProLifeLiberal

That's a good chunk for why I want major immigration.

The Conservatives/Tea Party are losing power demographically, as they tend older. Each year, they get a bit weaker. Eventually, the Liberals win out.

I just want to accelerate it.

Egypt's revolution has failed. It is the equivalent of Germany after the 1848 Revolution. Time to see the massive opportunity, both in workforce, and politically.

The failure of Egypt's revolution was foreseeable. Same with Tunisia and Libya. Foreseen, in fact, to some extent, by Buena de Mesquita, in his book Dictator's Handbook.

Syria? Hard to say. Assad is the worst of the lot so the bar is lower. Even a bad outcome in Syria would be an improvement on the current government.

139 Varek Raith  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:27:53pm

re: #137 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Ohh but the modern day KKK is all about love, now. NOT hate!!!1@ They even say so on kkk.com! So what it's love of being white, SO WHAT!! Heritage, not hate!!!

Image: image.png

140 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:28:31pm

re: #136 Gus 802

Republican propaganda. The people that brought down the Eastern block wasn't the GOP nor Reagan. They did it themselves.

HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT!

EVERYBODY KNOWS Saint Ronald making those tax and spend liberal godless reparations anticolonial communists spend so much on the Cold War is what made them do it!!!

141 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:34:23pm

re: #136 Gus 802

Republican propaganda. The people that brought down the Eastern block wasn't the GOP nor Reagan. They did it themselves.

Parroted, mindless repeated stale 30-year old propaganda, on top of it.

142 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:38:10pm

re: #132 Gus 802

The big tent. Heh. There is not big tent. The right wing is a very small tent.

white bigots, and their admirers, only.

144 Kragar  Tue, Nov 8, 2011 11:51:00pm

I'm sensing Joe might not make the cut for a second term.

145 freetoken  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:00:17am

re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He could probably be sent over the edge by the right constituent protest.

146 Kragar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:03:56am

re: #145 freetoken

He could probably be sent over the edge by the right constituent protest.

Maybe persistent questions about child support legislation and tax breaks for single mothers?

147 Tigger2  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:04:25am

re: #143 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

GOP Rep. Joe Walsh Melts Down, Screams At Constituents: ‘Dont Blame Banks!…I Am Tired Of Hearing That Crap!’

I have NO use for that Deadbeat Dad.

148 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:06:09am

re: #130 Gus 802

Yep. I mentioned that the other night. That's why the USA is fighting the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Competition. We even helped to create them. We created Saddam Hussein. We created Osama bin Laden. We support the Saudis. We defend the OPEC nations while pretending to defend Israel. America plays both sides. It really doesn't give a shit about those nations though. Not the people. As long as they, we, are making money. America is the greatest sell-out nation ever. We play both sides selling weapons to nations we pretend to defend.

This sort of thing is what confuses the dumb bigots. Their own personal identites are based around what they can accumulate, then show off to others. So they emulate and worship those they consider their econoic betters. The same people maniplate the social bigots among them, making them believe everyone else on earth is coming to take away their precious trinkets.

149 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:12:18am

re: #147 Tigger2

I have NO use for that Deadbeat Dad.

I do! May he stay in office forever as a proper representative of the Republican party. A deadbeat scumbag defends the pigs who ruined our economy, what could be better? Run tape, this is the republican party, buy some ad time :D

150 freetoken  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:18:17am
MP3 Audio
151 freetoken  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:20:46am

BG with the delightful Helen Forrest:

MP3 Audio
152 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:40:58am

Wide Awake.

You?

153 freetoken  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:48:13am

re: #152 ggt

Wide Awake.

You?

Fading fast...

154 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:50:40am

I got a whole 2 hours of sleep.

hormones suck!

155 freetoken  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 12:53:56am
MP3 Audio
156 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 1:08:01am

re: #155 freetoken

[Video]

Church always did put me to sleep.

157 researchok  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 1:30:25am

Morning, all

158 SpaceJesus  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 1:32:48am

evening, all

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 1:37:48am

Good afternoon, all.

160 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 1:46:00am

Night all!

again

161 tnguitarist  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 1:56:35am

Man, do I wake up early.

162 tnguitarist  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:03:47am

I just knew that when I logged in, I would find the bottom comments filled with Buck defending Cain.

163 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:16:02am

re: #162 tnguitarist

I just knew that when I logged in, I would find the bottom comments filled with Buck defending Cain.

Until the Morning Bell or Judson Philips tells him a good conservative conformist dupe does otherwise.

164 EdDantes  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:24:30am

re: #162 tnguitarist

I just knew that when I logged in, I would find the bottom comments filled with Buck defending Cain.

My 7th grade classmate misreading a sign our teacher posted on the wall, "The Buick stops here?"

165 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:28:25am

re: #164 EdDantes

My 7th grade classmate misreading a sign our teacher posted on the wall, "The Buick stops here?"

Buickdancing

166 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:39:15am

Morning Folks

167 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:44:22am

Punched in. Who didn't fill the coffee?

168 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:48:37am

The news about Roma in Czech Republic and Hungary that I am reading is very depressing.

Fucking fascists.

169 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:57:38am

The Indy mayor won re-election yesterday. His is a great story about a person who comes out of nowhere to become Mayor:

Tully:Nothing accidental about Ballard's 2nd win
[Link: www.indystar.com...]

He's accidental no more.

Four years after winning the mayor's race in an election that centered on just about everything except him, Greg Ballard won a second term Tuesday after a bruising campaign that was, essentially, a straight-up referendum on him.

Along the way, the man who has so often been derided as the city's "accidental mayor" once again proved wrong those naysayers who have underestimated him. A politician is, after all, what his record says he is. And the man whom supporters affectionately call "not a politician" remains undefeated in big-time political races.

Tully endorsed his opponent btw. The reason Tully gives for his victory is the exact same reason I voted to retain my towns Mayor (a Dem who freaking lost to the idiot he beat 4 years ago)

In winning, the Cathedral High School graduate has created a template for other executive branch candidates to use in cities -- or even states -- that don't lean in their directions: Just do the job.

Pave the streets. Balance the budgets. Reform the police department. Improve basic city services. Look for creative ways to raise money that don't involve taxes. Remain as nonpolitical as possible. Essentially, that means focusing squarely on the issues that affect daily life. And, if you are a Republican in a Democratic city, do things such as paint bike lanes and increase the city's sustainability efforts.

Quality-of-life issues are crucial in a big city, where life can sometimes be a hassle and where many families are forced to debate whether moving to the suburbs is a better option. So it's not surprising that voters ignored people like me who sought a grander long-term vision and instead rewarded Ballard for taking steps to better plow snow-covered streets and to more quickly fill potholes.

170 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:58:04am

re: #168 000G

The news about Roma in Czech Republic and Hungary that I am reading is very depressing.

Fucking fascists.

What are you reading?

171 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:58:29am

re: #170 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

What are you reading?

He said it was depressing! Don't do it!

172 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 2:59:23am

re: #171 RogueOne

He said it was depressing! Don't do it!

Oh I know! But if it wasn't 000G I wouldn't ask.

173 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:02:12am

Morning Honcos.

174 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:03:51am

re: #170 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

What are you reading?

"Die Gulasch-Faschisten – Die ungarische Regierung treibt die völkische Formierung der Gesellschaft voran." Von Jörg Kronauer

Basically anti-Roma pogrom moods and openly fascist and racist politicans get huge election successes while progressives and socialists are purged from any state institutions. This pertains esp. to Hungary.

This one seems like a good starting point:
http://euobserver.com/7/114214

Or just go to Google News:
roma bulgaria

roma czech

roma hungary

I've passed on information about Hungary here extensively before: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] (see bottom of that page). Especially Hungary is at the vanguard of the re-introduction of fascist policies in Eastern Europe. There's hardly any backlash by the EU, as long as they play by EU's foreign policy agenda.

175 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:06:58am

re: #174 000G

Yes, they passed a very restrictive law on freedom of the press that nobody got too upset about, either.

176 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:10:10am

re: #175 ralphieboy

Yes, they passed a very restrictive law on freedom of the press that nobody got too upset about, either.

Yes, I reported on that. There was some backlash at first, but the EU officials were content with Hungary window-dressing about it.

The EU is hypocritical. They rebuked the Slovakian government under Fico because it was too far-right supposedly, but their right is a lot tamer than Fidesz or Jobbik. The real reason for the rebuke of Slovakia was that they were too friendly with Russia.

177 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:11:55am

re: #174 000G

I was just at Council of Conservative Citizens (cofcc.org) today to see if they've gotten out the hemp rope over Herman Cain, yet. (They haven't, but give them time.)

They have links up to Jobbik, which I think are new. Thx for the links, I will read them.

178 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:13:31am

re: #148 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

This sort of thing is what confuses the dumb bigots. Their own personal identites are based around what they can accumulate, then show off to others. So they emulate and worship those they consider their econoic betters. The same people maniplate the social bigots among them, making them believe everyone else on earth is coming to take away their precious trinkets.

This is the residual Calvinism in our society: we are still sold on the notion that wealth is an outward sign of inner grace.

Therefore, a CEO who earns 300 times what his employees earn is 300 times more gracious in the eyes of God.

179 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:16:22am

re: #177 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

They have links up to Jobbik, which I think are new. Thx for the links, I will read them.

Jobbik is one of the worst regressive and most dangerously radical political forces in Europe right now, I would reckon. No wonder the CofCC is in love with them.

But Hungary in whole seems pretty crazy these days. They recently adopted a new constitution that on Jan 1, 2012 will purge the word "Republic" from the official name for the country.

180 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:17:08am

re: #178 ralphieboy

This is the residual Calvinism in our society: we are still sold on the notion that wealth is an outward sign of inner grace.

Therefore, a CEO who earns 300 times what his employees earn is 300 times more gracious in the eyes of God.

Saint Snooki?

181 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:17:44am

Another "We The People" petition I can get behind:

[Link: wwws.whitehouse.gov...]

We petition the obama administration to:

We demand a vapid, condescending, meaningless, politically safe response to this petition.

Since these petitions are ignored apart from an occasional patronizing and inane political statement amounting to nothing more than a condescending pat on the head, we the signers would enjoy having the illusion of success. Since no other outcome to this process seems possible, we demand that the White House immediately assign a junior staffer to compose a tame and vapid response to this petition, and never attempt to take any meaningful action on this or any other issue. We would also like a cookie.

182 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:19:33am

re: #180 Decatur Deb

Saint Snooki?

Are the Kardashinans not the very embodiment of inner grace?

183 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:23:05am

re: #182 ralphieboy

Are the Kardashinans not the very embodiment of inner grace?

I think Kim Kardashian will beat Madonna's "NBA Players Dated" record, eventually.
/half

184 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:25:11am

Commonplace bullshit, just one recent example:

The Czech Human Rights Commissioner is calling on Education Minister Josef Dobeš to withdraw the current edition of the second-year primary school children textbook Čítanka due to the inclusion of a story in which a mother explains to her daughter all about “dirty thieving Gypsies,” Mláda fronta Dnes reported Tuesday. The award-winning author, however, clearly aimed to spread a message of tolerance.

“There is a story in Čítanka in which a mother tells her children that Gypsies stink and steal. I do not understand how such a text could find its way into a methodological guide for schools,” Human Rights Commissioner Monika Šimůnková told the daily following a council meeting on Monday.

[Link: www.ceskapozice.cz...]

Czech government human rights commissioner Monika Simunkova has called on the Education Ministry to withdraw a school reader for second graders and some other school aids since they include anti-Romany texts, she told CTK yesterday.

The Government Council for Romany Issues debated the case yesterday.

Simunkova pointed to a short-story in which a girl cites her mother warning her against Romanis.

"My mummy said I should not talk to the Demeter boys... she said they are Gypsies. And Gypsies are dirty and they steal," Simunkova cited the short-story from the reader published in 2005.

"Seven-year-old children have been reading it for six years. It is really alarming," Simunkova said.

She added that some school aids from the Rainbow School Project of multicultural education at primary schools in the Moravian-Silesian Region, north Moravia, also contained "anti-Romany texts on the verge of racism."

[Link: praguemonitor.com...]

Interesting take:

Hindus want immediate withdrawal of a primary school textbook of Czech Republic, which reportedly stereotypes Roma (Gypsies) and is offensive.

Current edition of Čítanka, a textbook for second-year Czech primary school students, reportedly stereotyped Roma as ‘dirty, thieving Gypsies’.

Hindu statesman Rajan Zed, in a statement in Nevada (USA) today, said that the reported labeling of Roma as ‘dirty, thieving Gypsies’ was clearly a case of racial stereotyping and was not acceptable.

Mother telling her child—that Gypsies stink and steal and the child should not play with Gypsy boys—in a primary school textbook would send wrong signals to the children’s minds at an impressionable age, Zed, who is President of Universal Society of Hinduism, stressed.

[Link: www.eurasiareview.com...]

185 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:25:39am

re: #183 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think Kim Kardashian will beat Madonna's "NBA Players Dated" record, eventually.
/half

And NBA stars are dripping with inner grace judging by their salaries and promotion deals.

186 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:25:49am

re: #179 000G

Jobbik is one of the worst regressive and most dangerously radical political forces in Europe right now,I would reckon. No wonder the CofCC is in love with them.

Gang's all here...

European Allies

British National Party
Danish People's Party
Dutch Freedom Party
Freedom Party of Austria
Front National – France
Jobbik (Hungary)
Jobbik (Hungary) – Friends
Lega Nord (Northern Italy)
Norwegian Progress
Swedish Democrats
Swiss People's Party
Vlaams Belang
Vlaams Belang – Friends

Real charmers.

But Hungary in whole seems pretty crazy these days. They recently adopted a new constitution that on Jan 1, 2012 will purge the word "Republic" from the official name for the country.

187 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:26:04am

TAMPA — A federal judge ordered a Filipino man Tuesday to pay a $13,000 fine and serve three years of supervised release for trying to sell an imported drone aircraft on eBay.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

Lazardo's part time job?
///

188 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:27:02am

re: #187 Cannadian Club Akbar


Buy American drones!!!

189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:29:25am

re: #178 ralphieboy

This is the residual Calvinism in our society: we are still sold on the notion that wealth is an outward sign of inner grace.

Therefore, a CEO who earns 300 times what his employees earn is 300 times more gracious in the eyes of God.

What's interesting is the Calvinist influence of some of the major denominations with high representation of disenfranchised. Herman Cain's denomination, the National Baptist Convention, USA, is one of them. Largest Black denom in the country. TMK, though, this is not part of the theology. Another reason why HC has made himself persona non-grata with us Inauthentics™. lol

190 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:30:49am

Is it to early for this?

Sniffing Out Trouble
Dear Prudence advises a woman who caught her fiance's dad in a sleazy act
[Link: www.slate.com...]

A: For all of you who are dreading the holidays with your overbearing in-laws, you now have a beautiful mantra to repeat to get you through Thanksgiving: "At least my father-in-law is not......

191 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:31:09am

re: #189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

What's interesting is the Calvinist influence of some of the major denominations with high representation of disenfranchised. Herman Cain's denomination, the National Baptist Convention, USA, is one of them. Largest Black denom in the country. TMK, though, this is not part of the theology. Another reason why HC has made himself persona non-grata with us Inauthentics™. lol

I can only think that it is a way to seek both wealth and grace without feeling that they need exclude each other.

Bigger needle, smaller camel...

192 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:31:44am

Anti-Roma Demonstrations Spread Across Bulgaria

SOFIA — Anti-Gypsy demonstrations that began during the weekend continued to spread across Bulgaria on Tuesday evening in response to the killing of a man by a minibus whose driver is linked to a man accused of being a Roma crime boss.

Prime Minister Boyko M. Borisov and his main political rival, President Georgi S. Parvanov, made a show of bipartisan unity Monday in visiting Katunitsa, the village where the killing happened on Friday. Protesters had burned houses and cars belonging to the family of the supposed crime boss, Kiril Rashkov, while demanding that the authorities “deport” the family from the village, which has a population of 2,300.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]


'Gypsies Into Glue!': Anti-Roma Protests Sweep Bulgaria

Image: anti-roma_goons.jpg

The charge that a relative of a Roma clan leader killed a Bulgarian teenager sparked anti-Gypsy demonstrations across the country last weekend. Thousands of protesters took to the streets in at least 20 towns and cities, including the capital, Sofia. "A total of 168 have been arrested for violation of public order, the majority — for possession of small bombs, knives, bats, pipes from vacuum cleaners, kitchen meat hammers," the Interior Ministry said in a statement Wednesday morning. The Ministry estimates that 2,200 people took part in the second straight night of demonstrations—the worst outbreak of unrest in the country in more than a decade.

http://globalspin.blogs.time.com/2011/09/28/gypsies-into-glue-anti-roma-protests-sweep-bulgaria/


See also Wikipedia: Anti-Roma protests in Bulgaria 2011

193 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:34:49am

re: #187 Cannadian Club Akbar

TAMPA — A federal judge ordered a Filipino man Tuesday to pay a $13,000 fine and serve three years of supervised release for trying to sell an imported drone aircraft on eBay.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

Lazardo's part time job?
///

Low-end drones and high-end model airplanes sort of overlap. Here's an intro to the New Zealander who got pretty close to a basement cruise missile.

[Link: www.interestingprojects.com...]

194 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:35:31am

re: #190 RogueOne

We had a couple years ago who came into where I worked with their kids. The husband's father lived with them for a short time. The father put hidden cameras in their bedroom. Don't remember how long the cameras were there before they found them. Freak.

195 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:38:55am

Why is it so hard to speak honestly about allegations of sexual harassment or our corrupt ally in Afghanistan?
By Christopher Hitchens
[Link: www.slate.com...]

There were two generally depressing controversies last week, in both of which an exercise of free speech might have done more harm than good. The first concerns our disordered policy in Afghanistan and the second our ongoing and increasingly dishonest discussion of sexual harassment.

196 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:39:40am

re: #193 Decatur Deb

Low-end drones and high-end model airplanes sort of overlap. Here's an intro to the New Zealander who got pretty close to a basement cruise missile.

[Link: www.interestingprojects.com...]

Those would be useful to shut down illegal lemonade stands run by 10 year old kids.
///

197 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:39:51am

re: #192 000G

This is why I contribute money to a charity that's purpose is to get Roma the fuck out of Hungary, Bulgaria, and, well, Eastern Europe in general. Of course, they're not exactly welcomed in Western or Southern Europe as well. Pretty much the old safe havens for them are Scandinavia or here in the US.

Fucking Europe pretends to be so high and mighty about the plight of the Palestinians while turning a blind eye to the murder, rape, dispossession, and demonization of the Roma. Really makes me fucking sick.

198 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:41:06am

Even North America feels this:

Record number of Hungarian asylum-seekers landing on Canada’s doorstep (conservative piece)
Bigotry keeps Roma on the run
Immigration officials closely monitoring Roma arrivals 44

And did you read about the American businessman who recently evacuated several hundred Roma from a Hungarian ghetto because neo-fascists had bought an adjacent building where they were practising milita training maneuvers? Google "Richard Field" Gyöngyöspata

199 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:43:44am

re: #196 Cannadian Club Akbar

Those would be useful to shut down illegal lemonade stands run by 10 year old kids.
///

"The number two leader of Al Citrus was eliminated today in a water-balloon strike from a loitering Wham-o drone.."

200 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:45:08am

re: #197 Obdicut

One thing of note is that all of this anti-Roma bigotry goes hand-in-hand with anti-communist backlash in Eastern Europe. It's true that Roma often were much better off during Soviet times than they are now. Which is why I find Soros' efforts to improve things in that context very admirable.

201 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:45:30am

re: #198 000G

It's like a textbook example on how to vilify a group until even ordinary citizens are okay with you mistreating them. You ostractize them from society, enact special laws and taxes against them to 'control' them thus driving them further into poverty, and act all surprised and morally shocked when they have a higher rate of petty crime. Then you wait for any member of that community to commit a major crime--or, hell, just blame a major crime on them-- and sweep through busting heads, burning camps with populist fury behind you.

This has been going on in Europe for a thousand years and more against the Roma. And even at the height of the economic and political success of the EU they were barely doing more than talking up how much they were going to help them. Most of the time they bemoan that they "can't" be helped because of their culture.

202 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:45:48am

re: #199 Decatur Deb

"The number two leader of Al Citrus was eliminated today in a water-baloon strike from a loitering Wham-o drone.."

Ha!

203 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:47:58am

re: #201 Obdicut


I was set upon by a band of Roma children in Moscow in around 1992, about a dozen of them, none older than nine or ten. I didn't want to hit them, but I had a newspaper which I rolled up and used to swat them, like puppies.

It drove them off.

204 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:50:04am

Come to think of it, didn't Sergey recently have a link to an article on the ambivalent situation of Roma in the Soviet Union? Was at findarticles.com, so is probably 404 now. Can't remember title or authors, though.

205 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:50:43am

re: #203 ralphieboy

And when you get enough incidents like that, you have ordinary people saying "Well, these Roma really are a criminal problem, someone ought to crack down on them." When the real problem is the lack of education, integration into society, their lack of trust in law enforcement which is often complicit in their abuse, and their endemic poverty.

206 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:54:39am

A Southwest Florida man's planned threesome with his wife and another woman ended with him behind bars on felony battery charges after he punched and swung a TV at his bride.
[Link: www.nbcmiami.com...]

Uh, dude, you're doing this all wrong.

207 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:56:52am
Up to 50 Hungarian Roma are routinely filing refugee claims daily at Pearson airport, putting a strain on airport staff and medical services, according to border services officials.

A record 110 claimants arrived at the airport one night last week, creating a challenge for immigration and security personnel working to process them, officers say.

The Hungarian Roma are a stateless ethnic group that considers the name “Gypsy” derogatory.

Entire Roma families, from babies to grandmothers, are getting off flights and claiming refugee protection at Pearson, alleging they’re being persecuted by “skinheads or Neo-Nazis” in their homeland, border officers said.

[Link: www.torontosun.com...]

And fascists of course are not consigned to just Europe. From the comments section:

They will be learning how to use ATM scamming equipment in no time. They'll get caught. We'll pay for their defence and they keep what they stole. Or they'll go on welfare and we'll pay. Or they'll claim disability and we'll pay. Whatever way you look at this, they will be a drain on Canada. Send them back now.

* 1 week ago
* 181 Likes

All I can say is HOLY F>>K, what is this country becoming. Were like one big homeless shelter. We are sooo going to regret this mass of incoming.

* 1 week ago
* 137 Likes

We will celebrate our world reputation as a generous and loving nation all the way to the poor house...When the hell is the government going to rewrite this immigration crap and be able to turn these people around in a day plus limit immigrants to people we need and choose to have ... not invading parasites and colonists taking advantage of the Trudeau legacy of farce.

* 1 week ago
* 35 Likes

Am I being in bad faith when I wonder what Buck thinks about this?

208 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:58:43am

re: #206 Cannadian Club Akbar

A Southwest Florida man's planned threesome with his wife and another woman ended with him behind bars on felony battery charges after he punched and swung a TV at his bride.
[Link: www.nbcmiami.com...]

Uh, dude, you're doing this all wrong.

Kind of a sad-sack tale, but the crazy crap in the report's comment section is the SOS.

209 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 3:58:51am

re: #207 000G

I looked at Buck's karma the other day and looked at it again yesterday. -1000 drop in about 3 days. God bless ya, Buck.

210 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:04:28am

Babatunde Omidina, Nigerian Actor, Freed After 25 Successful Bowel Movements
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

I don't need to add anything here.

211 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:05:10am

re: #207 000G

I think the Roma can probably integrate best into the US, where clannish people that keep to themselves have integrated pretty well-- like the Amish.

Wherever they go, it'll take a real, aggressive program from the government to help them integrate without destroying them. Their culture is intensely conservative and their suspicion of authority isn't going to vanish overnight.

They're kind of similar to the Hmong, whose integration into life in California has been less-than-stellar but has at least some successes to point to.

212 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:11:20am

Good Morning Honcos!!

A little culture today. Based on our class trip to Gettysburg and Pickett's Charge, Faulkner's quote about how the charge is viewed in the South:

“For every Southern boy fourteen years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it's still not yet two o’clock on that July afternoon in 1863, the brigades are in position behind the rail fence, the guns are laid and ready in the woods and the furled flags are already loosened to break out and Pickett himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting for Longstreet to give the word and it's all in the balance, it hasn't happened yet, it hasn't even begun yet, it not only hasn't begun yet but there is still time for it not to begin against that position and those circumstances which made more men than Garnett and Kemper and Armistead and Wilcox look grave yet it's going to begin, we all know that, we have come too far with too much at stake and that moment doesn't need even a fourteen-year-old boy to think This time. Maybe this time with all this much to lose and all this much to gain: Pennsylvania, Maryland, the world, the golden dome of Washington itself to crown with desperate and unbelievable victory the desperate gamble, the cast made two years ago....

William Faulkner, Intruder In The Dust”

213 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:16:41am

When CuriousLurker comes online, can somebody please pass this on to her? I believe she had been asking for it, but until just now I have been unaware of that.

215 RogueOne  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:19:32am

Time to hit the road folks. Enjoy the rest of your day!

216 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:19:37am

re: #27 ProLifeLiberal

Now, we just need to make sure that the Conservative can't get back into power. Get these voter suppression laws out, and get immigration among the disenchanted in Egypt up.

Funneling several million of the disenchanted young people in Egypt whose revolution has failed into the Upper Midwest, especially Michigan, will have a fantastic effect.

Do you think Ford and GM have millions of jobs just for them, jobs that there are not enough Americans to fill?

217 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:21:35am

re: #216 Alouette

Do you think Ford and GM have millions of jobs just for them, jobs that there are not enough Americans to fill?

Details.
//

218 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:22:24am

re: #216 Alouette

Do you think Ford and GM have millions of jobs just for them, jobs that there are not enough Americans to fill?

Somebody has to run the felafel stands for all those hungry GM workers on swing shift

219 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:23:51am

re: #218 ralphieboy

Somebody has to run the felafel stands for all those hungry GM workers on swing shift

Halal falafel stands! It Teh Creeping Sharia!1!ty

220 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:25:23am

re: #219 Alouette

Creeping but delicious!
//

221 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:25:32am

re: #219 Alouette

they will be required by law to be deep fried in bacon grease...

222 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:26:09am

re: #221 ralphieboy

they will be required by law to be deep fried in bacon grease...

By the Pig Workers Union!!!
/

223 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:26:19am

No Pepsi, Coke

224 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:27:07am

re: #223 Shropshire_Slasher

No Pepsi, Coke

Cheeseburger.

225 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:29:20am

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

NWO!!!

226 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:29:20am

re: #214 rwdflynavy

Our friends the Chinese.

China Threatens Massive Venting of Super Greenhouse Gases in Attempt to Extort Billions as UNFCCC Meeting Approaches

Hardball.

Sucks to be on the receiving end of it.

227 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:32:49am

re: #214 rwdflynavy

Our friends the Chinese.

China Threatens Massive Venting of Super Greenhouse Gases in Attempt to Extort Billions as UNFCCC Meeting Approaches

The Koch Brothers are so pissed they didn't think of that as a means to disperse the OWS protestors!

228 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:36:10am

re: #227 Alouette

The Koch Brothers are so pissed they didn't think of that as a means to disperse the OWS protestors!

The free hot dogs have run out and the Occupy LA folks are pissed!!!

Occupy Protest Draws Attention To Two Small Businesses.

229 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:39:01am

re: #228 rwdflynavy

The free hot dogs have run out and the Occupy LA folks are pissed!!!

Occupy Protest Draws Attention To Two Small Businesses.

Big Coffee Cart and Big Hot Dog Cart are the 1%!!!

230 Cannadian Club Akbar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:39:46am

Alrighty. Work beckons. See ya'll this afternoon.

231 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:40:11am

re: #228 rwdflynavy

The threats to businesses continue in Zucotti Park:[Link: www.nypost.com...]

232 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:42:46am

re: #231 Shropshire_Slasher

You know to take anything printed in the Post with a gigantic bucket of salt, right?

233 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:43:38am

re: #232 Obdicut

If that makes you feel better.

234 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:44:46am

re: #233 Shropshire_Slasher

No, it's because the Post is a tabloid rag with a history of telling massively distorted stories.

235 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:56:25am

re: #234 Obdicut

No, it's because the Post is a tabloid rag with a history of telling massively distorted stories.

Corporations are people too, my friend.

236 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:57:22am

If we're linking to the Murdoch rag, there's this bit of upright journalism:

Gold diggers -- unite!

Sharon Bialek is 50, out of work and, according to one who knows her, she’s a smooth operator living way above her means. From the look of her heavily painted face, she’s also soon to be in acute need of a new tub of eyeliner.

Enter Herman Cain...


[Link: www.nypost.com...]

237 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:58:30am

re: #231 Shropshire_Slasher


The point is to focus attention on the protestors and not on those being protested against.

238 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:58:37am

re: #236 Decatur Deb

Now that sounds like good, old-fashioned journalism attempting to be fair to all parties, both the noble, almost regal Mr. Cain and the hellacious hell-bitch bent on his destruction who has no redeeming qualities.

/

239 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:28:11am

Morning Lizardim. Our dreaded Snowmageddon has arrived - a whole two snowflakes that hit the front of my car as I was driving in to work this morning. Woo freakin' hoo. How are things out there in the land of the odd?

240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:31:05am

re: #239 thedopefishlives

How are things out there in the land of the odd?

My best friends parked car was hit by a young lady last night who told the cops "It came out of nowhere!".

Breathalyzer? .034.

Reminds me of one of those funny insurance claims lines, "I turned into the wrong driveway and hit a tree I don't have.

241 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:34:02am

Good morning, we are all so fucked.

242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:35:55am

re: #241 Alouette

A lawyer and an engineer were fishing in the Caribbean. The lawyer said, "I'm here because my house burned down, and everything I owned was destroyed by the fire. The insurance company paid for everything."
That's quite a coincidence," said the engineer. "I'm here because my house and all my belongings were destroyed by a flood, and my insurance company also paid for everything."
The lawyer thought for a moment, but was puzzled. Finally he asked the engineer, "How do you start a flood?"

243 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:38:02am

re: #241 Alouette

The fact that we still subsidize fossil fuels-- fuels that enjoy a price advantage in the market because their true costs are paid for by all of us rather than those who profit from them-- is fucking insane.

We're paying to destroy ourselves.

244 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:38:59am

re: #243 Obdicut

The fact that we still subsidize fossil fuels-- fuels that enjoy a price advantage in the market because their true costs are paid for by all of us rather than those who profit from them-- is fucking insane.

We're paying to destroy ourselves.

Why do you hate the Free Market?

/

245 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:41:12am

re: #243 Obdicut

In the end (whether we subsidize them or not) "all of us" will still pay the true (and some made-up) costs. Companies always find a way to pass their operating costs (whatever those costs are) on to "all of us".

246 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:41:30am

re: #244 ralphieboy

Should be the "free to despoil the commons in order to make private profit" market.

We've seen this coming for a long, long time. People have been warning of the danger of the tragedy of the commons for ages and ages. People have been talking about the need for sustainability forever and ever. And yet assholes the world over would rather make a quick buck than an honest one.

247 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:42:13am

re: #242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The lawyer thought for a moment, but was puzzled. Finally he asked the engineer, "How do you start a flood?"

A: By voting Republican.

248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:42:37am

re: #247 iossarian

That was the joke!

249 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:43:25am

re: #241 Alouette

Good morning, we are all so fucked.

Won't happen. And even if the US does it (which it won't), will China, India, Russia etc.? Nope.

250 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:43:54am

re: #248 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That was the joke!

I know. I was merely adding my comment, which references the Republican party's complete opposition to do anything that might help us avoid catastrophic global warming.

251 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:44:26am

re: #243 Obdicut

The fact that we still subsidize fossil fuels-- fuels that enjoy a price advantage in the market because their true costs are paid for by all of us rather than those who profit from them-- is fucking insane.

We're paying to destroy ourselves.

The Koch Brothers are trying to save us by destroying reducing the energy-wasting middle class, dropping our economy (and the world economy with it) back to the 19th century, and lowering living standards in order to cut world energy demand and slow warming. And doing so before China and India become too set on achieving the same levels of energy dependence.

And we sit here and rail at their subtle and gentle efforts!
////

252 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:44:35am

re: #246 Obdicut

Let us consider Adam Smith, who said that "Markets are there to serve the people, people are not there to serve the markets."

But heck, corporations are people! Therefore, the market is there to serve the corporations. That is what modern Free Enterprise is about.

253 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:45:35am

re: #250 iossarian

Bob McDonnell now has a Republican Senate in VA.

254 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:45:38am

re: #245 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

In the end (whether we subsidize them or not) "all of us" will still pay the true (and some made up) costs. Companies always find a way to pass their operating costs (whatever those costs are) on to "all of us".

No, dude, you're not getting it.

The true costs of the fossil fuels are the pollution in the air, the streams, and AGW. Burning oil to produce energy costs little because we're not forcing the industry to pay the costs of that pollution. AGW is going to devastate the world, is going to raise prices on everything, is going to destroy wealth. And it's a direct result of fossil fuel use. I mean, never mind the rest of the pollution they cause, the asthma they create that they don't have to pay for.

Fossil fuels are like letting a guy make money by sitting in our house and running a generator that slowly fills up the house with smoke, and fucking paying him for the privilege of letting him be there.

And costs are not always passed down to the consumer. That is one of the biggest fallacies that corporations attempt to foist on us. Even in the true free market, the price of a good is set by what the market will bear. It is not production cost + x. It is what people are willing to pay for it. So when a company says they 'have' to pass a cost down, they're lying. What they mean is they've run the numbers and figured it'll profit them to jack the price up. That is all.

255 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:46:29am

Why do Americans worship the likes of Hugh Laurie and Kim Kardashian while vilifying real doctors and investment bankers who save millions of lives and employ millions of people!!1ty

*

*Actual straw man invented by Mike Ramirez

256 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:48:06am

re: #255 Alouette

*

*Actual straw man invented by Mike Ramirez

Hugh Laurie rocks! Kim Kardashian does something else.

257 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:48:14am

Co-winners thanking the committee on receiving the "Award for Sheer Freakn' Survival":

Image: image.img.1320831948938.jpg

258 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:49:33am

re: #254 Obdicut

No, dude, you're not getting it.

The true costs of the fossil fuels are the pollution in the air, the streams, and AGW. Burning oil to produce energy costs little because we're not forcing the industry to pay the costs of that pollution. AGW is going to devastate the world, is going to raise prices on everything, is going to destroy wealth. And it's a direct result of fossil fuel use. I mean, never mind the rest of the pollution they cause, the asthma they create that they don't have to pay for.

Fossil fuels are like letting a guy make money by sitting in our house and running a generator that slowly fills up the house with smoke, and fucking paying him for the privilege of letting him be there.

And costs are not always passed down to the consumer. That is one of the biggest fallacies that corporations attempt to foist on us. Even in the true free market, the price of a good is set by what the market will bear. It is not production cost + x. It is what people are willing to pay for it. So when a company says they 'have' to pass a cost down, they're lying. What they mean is they've run the numbers and figured it'll profit them to jack the price up. That is all.

The oil companies figured out they could hike the price of gas up to $3.50/gallon, any higher and there would be backlash, but they cranked it all the way up to more than $4/gal and then when they dropped to $3.50 the consumers thought they were getting a "break."

259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:50:02am

re: #254 Obdicut

So, for the current world we live in, your solution is?

"Go back in time and find an alternative to where were are" is not an acceptable answer.

260 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:51:40am

re: #259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So, for the current world we live in, your solution is?

"Go back in time and find an alternative to where were are" is not an acceptable answer.

Begin planning how to put civilization in Safe Mode.

261 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:51:43am

You know what grinds my gears?
Coworkers who make coffee only for themselves when the sign clearly states:
"If you make coffee, make a full pot"
/Rantmode

262 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:52:01am

re: #256 oaktree

Hugh Laurie rocks! Kim Kardashian does something else.

I enjoy the "House" program but that doesn't mean I think the performers are "heroes."

263 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:52:24am

re: #261 Varek Raith

You know what grinds my gears?
Coworkers who make coffee only for themselves when the sign clearly states:
"If you make coffee, make a full pot"
/Rantmode

Zedushka hates when I do that.

264 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:52:32am

re: #262 Alouette

I enjoy the "House" program but that doesn't mean I think the performers are "heroes."

House is a hero to assholes, like myself, everywhere.
;)

265 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:53:07am

re: #258 Alouette

I somehow suspect that the high summer gasoline prices next year are going to kept artificially high by speculators into the first week of November, all wghile the meme "Obama is not doing enough to promote domestic production to lower prices" meme is being floated all over the broadcast media.

266 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:54:11am

re: #259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So, for the current world we live in, your solution is?

"Go back in time and find an alternative to where were are" is not an acceptable answer.

Focus on sustainable industry, sustainable energy. Spend like crazy to get there. Enact severe Pigovian taxes on the fossil fuel companies to help pay for it. Accept, societally, that we have to get out of the 'buy it, use it up, throw it away' mentality and have to accept a temporary lower standard of living while we transfer from a wasteful, resource-burning industry to a sustainable one. It is goddamn obvious, and has been forever, that we can't continue to do things that simply use up resources. Nothing is going to last forever. Sustainability has always, always been the only possible path open to us if we want to survive as a civilization and a species.

This is one of the main reasons I'm unhappy with the Ocucpy people. They're saying "We're not getting a big enough piece of the pie". I'm saying "The way we make the pie is fucking insanely suicidal and we need to change it". I hope that this movement could lead to an acceptance of the need for sustainability, but I don't see it.

267 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:57:41am

re: #266 Obdicut


We still measure economic prosperity in terms of how much we consume, not how efficiently we employ what we consume.

I recall the good old days of the USSR when they issued their annual production statistics. They actually reported their production of electronics gear in terms of how many tons (!?!) of electroncs they had produced...

268 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 5:57:53am

re: #264 Varek Raith

House is a hero to assholes, like myself, everywhere.
;)

I noticed that every TV drama has to include one of the following among its cast of attractive people:

1. Person with Asperger's (Bones, Criminal Minds, NCIS)
2. "Dragon tattoo" Girl who wears weird outfits (NCIS-DC, Criminal Minds)
3. Team leader who is an asshole (House, NCIS-DC, Criminal Minds)

269 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:00:22am

I have a hard time believing that my using cloth grocery bags and never eating fast food has any impact on the environment.

270 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:00:29am

re: #264 Varek Raith

House is a hero to assholes, like myself, everywhere.
;)

And Hugh Laurie is much more than "House" as well.

271 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:01:24am

re: #266 Obdicut

One of the very few problems I have with pro-worker agitation is the attitude of "no negotiation on increasing the cost of energy, fossil fuels etc. until fair(er) distribution of wealth is achieved", which you see some people take when environmental policy is discussed.

I personally think that's too hard a line to take given the reality of global warming.

On the other hand, I can perfectly see the rationale for people taking that view, who don't see why they should have to sacrifice at all when the guys at the top of the pile are doing just fine (and are very likely, under current conditions, to simply move into trading energy offsets and continue to rake in the dough).

272 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:02:23am

re: #269 Alouette

I have a hard time believing that my using cloth grocery bags and never eating fast food has any impact on the environment.

Same quandray as your vote, isn't it?

273 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:02:39am

re: #269 Alouette

I have a hard time believing that my using cloth grocery bags and never eating fast food has any impact on the environment.

In Germany they charge around 25cents per plastic bag: it pays to bring a cloth bag with you. As for not eating fast food, it just means that you are probably a bit healthier.

274 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:03:01am

re: #269 Alouette

I have a hard time believing that my using cloth grocery bags and never eating fast food has any impact on the environment.

It does. It really does. The reason it doesn't seem like it does is because not enough people do it. And that's what depresses people and makes them give up. But it's like any moral and ethical action. Would it have changed things in the South a lot, pre-Civil War, if you lived there and chose not to own slaves and chose to pay fair wages to free black men? No, the society would still have been a shitty, fucking disgrace of a place. But you personally would be doing good, as much as any one human can. And you could agitate for abolition and do other things, as well.

Behaving in a sustainable manner is more than a practical choice; it's a moral and ethical one.

275 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:03:38am

re: #269 Alouette

I have a hard time believing that my using cloth grocery bags and never eating fast food has any impact on the environment.

Raindrop:Grand Canyon

276 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:04:14am

re: #271 iossarian

This is the attitude that a lot of third-world nations have about decreasing pollution: they argue that they are still building their industries up and feel that they are at a disadvantage if they have to meet Western standards.

277 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:06:07am

re: #276 ralphieboy

This is the attitude that a lot of third-world nations have about decreasing pollution: they argue that they are still building their industries up and feel that they are at a disadvantage if they have to meet Western standards.

Which, technically, they are, because more sustainable methods tend to be higher technology, and that's a price most third-world countries can ill afford. But they HAVE to, if they don't want to pay a higher price later in wrecking the planet.

278 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:07:06am

re: #276 ralphieboy

This is the attitude that a lot of third-world nations have about decreasing pollution: they argue that they are still building their industries up and feel that they are at a disadvantage if they have to meet Western standards.

And they're right. That's why it falls on us, the US and the rest of the technologically advanced world, the wealthy world, to balls-out produce sustainable technology and spread it throughout the world.

I don't think we're actually going to do this until the actual harm from AGW starts being manifestly clear. At that point, the solutions will have to be so dire that it's going to destroy our civilization anyway. I still retain hope that mankind as a species will survive, but I really don't think there's any way to avoid an increase in temperatures that's going to absolutely devastate the world. Too much greed. Too much evil.

279 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:07:32am

re: #274 Obdicut

It does. It really does. The reason it doesn't seem like it does is because not enough people do it. And that's what depresses people and makes them give up. But it's like any moral and ethical action. Would it have changed things in the South a lot, pre-Civil War, if you lived there and chose not to own slaves and chose to pay fair wages to free black men? No, the society would still have been a shitty, fucking disgrace of a place. But you personally would be doing good, as much as any one human can. And you could agitate for abolition and do other things, as well.

Behaving in a sustainable manner is more than a practical choice; it's a moral and ethical one.

I bought a new car this year, my contribution to the economy, supporting the industry that I work in. But I bought a fuel-efficient conventional vehicle instead of a hybrid, since the hybrid model costs $10,000 more.

I asked some executives why there are no dealer incentives on hybrids, like there are on conventional vehicles, and they explained that the dealer incentives are to move inventory that is already on the lot, to make way for the new model year. Hybrids cost more to manufacture, there is always a backlog of orders and they have no problem moving these vehicles.

Therefore: government should offer tax breaks to citizens who buy hybrid vehicles, so that they end up spending the same as they would for a conventional vehicle with all the dealer incentives, etc.

280 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:08:34am

re: #276 ralphieboy

This is the attitude that a lot of third-world nations have about decreasing pollution: they argue that they are still building their industries up and feel that they are at a disadvantage if they have to meet Western standards.

Right, and again, though I think they're wrong, I think they have a certain amount of moral standing.

Let's face it, it's not the case that we have a great case to make to them.

In other news, European public finances are in full meltdown. Italy is gone, and France is probably next.

I'm increasingly reminded of a quote from some German writer, remembering a comment his own grandfather made when reading the newspaper in the 20s or 30s:

"Da gibt's Krieg."

I hope not.

281 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:08:37am

re: #278 Obdicut

And they're right. That's why it falls on us, the US and the rest of the technologically advanced world, the wealthy world, to balls-out produce sustainable technology and spread it throughout the world.

I don't think we're actually going to do this until the actual harm from AGW starts being manifestly clear. At that point, the solutions will have to be so dire that it's going to destroy our civilization anyway. I still retain hope that mankind as a species will survive, but I really don't think there's any way to avoid an increase in temperatures that's going to absolutely devastate the world. Too much greed. Too much evil.

We are already seeing the harm from storm damage that was already predicted years ago.

282 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:10:04am

I am so not liking the black box you get from clicking on the comment rating number.

283 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:10:59am

re: #280 iossarian

I'm increasingly reminded of a quote from some German writer, remembering a comment his own grandfather made when reading the newspaper in the 20s or 30s:

"Da gibt's Krieg."

I hope not.

It is already war. Just not a shooting war except in a few countries. Yet.

284 Egregious Philbin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:11:14am

Pearce is a terrible man, and his followers are the worst of the worst, I even had a stalker because I posted about his wife beating, his nazi friends, his bribe taking, etc.

Thank god this racist asshat got shown the door.

285 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:11:21am

re: #279 Alouette

Even hybrids are only like a tenth of a step on the path to solution. The AGW cost of their production is large enough that the benefit of their use is almost entirely wiped out. This is true in a lot of ways.

A lot of silly people who think that they're being sustainable by using ceramic mugs rather than something disposable act like those ceramic mugs appeared out of nowhere and will last forever. Making ceramic takes a ton of heat-- energy which comes from AGW-producing fossil fuels. It takes a ton of water. It takes digging the clay out of the ground in the first place. It's massy and heavy so it takes more fuel to transport it.

Is it better than plastic? Definitely. Is it better than bamboo cups? No. Bamboo can be a sustainable source of cups. Ceramic cannot.

The worst are those trendy stainless steel mugs with environmentalist slogans on them. Like stainless steel is an environmentally friendly product. What the living fuck.

286 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:11:35am

re: #282 Alouette

I am so not liking the black box you get from clicking on the comment rating number.

Mine's white against dark gray. (FF under Linux)

287 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:13:35am

re: #282 Alouette

I am so not liking the black box you get from clicking on the comment rating number.

my screen goes black when i try to use the correction feature. just gotta be more carefub...

288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:14:18am

re: #285 Obdicut

Just think if we could find a way to use kudzu.

289 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:14:30am

re: #278 Obdicut

And they're right. That's why it falls on us, the US and the rest of the technologically advanced world, the wealthy world, to balls-out produce sustainable technology and spread it throughout the world.

I don't think we're actually going to do this until the actual harm from AGW starts being manifestly clear. At that point, the solutions will have to be so dire that it's going to destroy our civilization anyway. I still retain hope that mankind as a species will survive, but I really don't think there's any way to avoid an increase in temperatures that's going to absolutely devastate the world. Too much greed. Too much evil.

Here's another piece of the pie: I am a practical man. When it comes to sustainable technology, I often see it as less practical and useful than the non-environmentally-friendly alternative. Take, for example, my pickup truck. Hybrid cars are all the rage, and they are great (excepting the cost and environmental issues involved in the batteries, but that's a separate issue); but I need a vehicle with considerable power and hauling capacity, as a resident of a rural area where I often have to haul stuff across considerable distance. As such, environmentally sustainable options such as hybrid cars are hardly a viable solution to my needs, no matter how much I want to preserve the environment. I could make a similar argument for CFL's versus incandescent bulbs. Until we can start producing efficient technologies that can compete side-by-side with the old, inefficient, familiar, and often more useful technologies, I'm afraid their adoption is going to be limited at best.

290 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:14:41am

re: #285 Obdicut

Even hybrids are only like a tenth of a step on the path to solution. The AGW cost of their production is large enough that the benefit of their use is almost entirely wiped out. This is true in a lot of ways.

A lot of silly people who think that they're being sustainable by using ceramic mugs rather than something disposable act like those ceramic mugs appeared out of nowhere and will last forever. Making ceramic takes a ton of heat-- energy which comes from AGW-producing fossil fuels. It takes a ton of water. It takes digging the clay out of the ground in the first place. It's massy and heavy so it takes more fuel to transport it.

Is it better than plastic? Definitely. Is it better than bamboo cups? No. Bamboo can be a sustainable source of cups. Ceramic cannot.

The worst are those trendy stainless steel mugs with environmentalist slogans on them. Like stainless steel is an environmentally friendly product. What the living fuck.

My sister makes ceramic stuff for a living and she thinks of herself as being all green an' shit, whereas I work in the horrible auto industry.

291 garhighway  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:16:47am

re: #289 thedopefishlives

Here's another piece of the pie: I am a practical man. When it comes to sustainable technology, I often see it as less practical and useful than the non-environmentally-friendly alternative. Take, for example, my pickup truck. Hybrid cars are all the rage, and they are great (excepting the cost and environmental issues involved in the batteries, but that's a separate issue); but I need a vehicle with considerable power and hauling capacity, as a resident of a rural area where I often have to haul stuff across considerable distance. As such, environmentally sustainable options such as hybrid cars are hardly a viable solution to my needs, no matter how much I want to preserve the environment. I could make a similar argument for CFL's versus incandescent bulbs. Until we can start producing efficient technologies that can compete side-by-side with the old, inefficient, familiar, and often more useful technologies, I'm afraid their adoption is going to be limited at best.

Morning from NYC, all. It is a GORGEOUS day here.

On the point of the post, isn't it part of the role of government in that situation to tilt the table in favor of the cleaner technology?

292 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:17:18am

re: #288 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just think if we could find a way to use kudzu.

And we can! It'd make a great biofuel. It'd take a bit of research into figuring out how best to break it down, and then we could. But as long as the fossil fuel industry is getting massive subsidies, as long as they don't have to pay the environmental cost of their actions, as long as we instead foolishly subsidize corn ethanol, there's no economic incentive for anyone to figure it out and do it.

293 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:18:20am

re: #292 Obdicut

And we can! It'd make a great biofuel. It'd take a bit of research into figuring out how best to break it down, and then we could. But as long as the fossil fuel industry is getting massive subsidies, as long as they don't have to pay the environmental cost of their actions, as long as we instead foolishly subsidize corn ethanol, there's no economic incentive for anyone to figure it out and do it.

Corn ethanol is the stupidest and most destructive idea ever! You don't burn FOOD.

Hemp!

294 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:19:06am

re: #289 thedopefishlives

The problem is that they can compete side-by-side, if you actually take their effects into account.

If someone said "You can either have this lightbulb, and a case of asthma that will make you tired every damn day and have to pay for an inhaler, or you can have this lightbulb, which will cost more but you don't get the asthma", which would you choose?

The problem is hammering home those costs, and tying them to the products. Our economy separates them, so that the costs are borne by all of us instead of by the company profiting from the product. It's nuts.

295 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:19:20am

re: #292 Obdicut

And we can! It'd make a great biofuel. It'd take a bit of research into figuring out how best to break it down, and then we could. But as long as the fossil fuel industry is getting massive subsidies, as long as they don't have to pay the environmental cost of their actions, as long as we instead foolishly subsidize corn ethanol, there's no economic incentive for anyone to figure it out and do it.

Well, there is, but it's a hidden economic incentive that no one really thinks about. Performing such research now would have enormous payoffs later in terms of not having to completely rewrite society in order to accommodate the environment. But that's an obscure way to think about economic benefits, and certainly not enough of a "cash in my pocket" incentive to convince anyone to commit real capital to the research.

296 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:20:52am

re: #290 Alouette

My sister makes ceramic stuff for a living and she thinks of herself as being all green an' shit, whereas I work in the horrible auto industry.

If she's at all self-reflective, ask her to attempt to figure out how much fossil fuel is burned in order to provide the energy for the kiln she fires her stuff in. If it's a wood-fired one, ask her if she pays for reforestation equal to the amount she uses. Ask her what the AGW cost is for the excavation of the clay that comes to her, and of the glazes and other materials that're slapped on.

297 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:21:06am

re: #285 Obdicut

A lot of silly people who think that they're being sustainable by using ceramic mugs rather than something disposable act like those ceramic mugs appeared out of nowhere and will last forever. Making ceramic takes a ton of heat-- energy which comes from AGW-producing fossil fuels. It takes a ton of water. It takes digging the clay out of the ground in the first place. It's massy and heavy so it takes more fuel to transport it.

Is it better than plastic? Definitely. Is it better than bamboo cups? No. Bamboo can be a sustainable source of cups. Ceramic cannot.

The worst are those trendy stainless steel mugs with environmentalist slogans on them. Like stainless steel is an environmentally friendly product. What the living fuck.

I think any material (within reason) would be fine. The real problem is that people are going to get bored with whatever cup they have in a few years and throw them away and buy new ones to match fashion or the new drapes.
I inherited a box of family trinkets when a relative passed. In the box were a few large metal spoons probably from about 1800-1850. You could tell they were used by right handed people because the spoons were so worn down. Those spoons were probably the only eating utensil for someone's entire life. Maybe even a couple generations.

298 Lidane  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:21:08am

Ugh. How awful, especially for the families:

Air Force Officials Disciplined Over Handling of Human Remains

Three senior officials at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware, sacred ground for the military and the main entry point for the nation’s war dead, knew they had lost body parts of two service members killed in Afghanistan but did nothing to correct sloppy practices at the base mortuary, the Air Force said Tuesday.

An 18-month Air Force investigation said the officials had displayed “gross mismanagement” at the mortuary, the largest in the nation and an increasingly hectic place as the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan sent the remains of thousands of American men and women to Dover.

In its own report on Tuesday, the Office of Special Counsel, the agency that handles whistle-blower complaints within the federal government, offered scathing criticism of the Air Force’s handling of the affair and raised questions about the thoroughness of its investigation. Both inquiries were the result of complaints last year from three civilian employees of the Dover Port Mortuary, either embalmers or technicians, who alleged that there had been 14 sometimes gruesome failures at the facility, including one instance when mortuary employees sawed off a dead Marine’s arm without consulting his family.

299 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:21:42am

re: #293 Alouette

Hemp!

No Glacier, No Cry.

300 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:21:53am

re: #295 thedopefishlives

Yes. In our psychotically short-term markets, nobody is playing the long game. The market has skewed more and more and more towards short-term profits.

301 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:22:33am

re: #294 Obdicut

Not really. If you built an electric truck and tried to sell it to me on the premise that it could go, say, 35 miles on electric power like the Chevy Volt, or 20 miles fully loaded, I would tell you to take that truck and shove it. In a world where 35 miles will get me about 3/4 of the way to my destination, that is simply unacceptable. That's not really competing side-by-side, no matter how big the environmental differences are. It just doesn't fit the requirements.

302 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:24:37am

re: #297 Killgore Trout

Well, no, any material won't do because we do have an actual limit on the materials. But yes, a large part of the problem is people getting rid of their Iphone 2's when the Iphone 3 comes out. Of buying cheap Ikea furniture with the explicit plan of throwing it out once they get more money. Etc.

But there is nothing wrong with throwing stuff out if it's a sustainable deal. If you have sustainable bamboo producing cups which then go into compost or recycling, throwing that away is fine. There's always going to be a small energy loss in the system but luckily we've got that sun thing pouring energy into our system so we can deal with it.

The real problem is the using up of resources that aren't sustainable. This is accelerated by the habit of people just throwing shit away, but even if they didn't it'd just slow down, not halt, the problem.

303 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:25:02am

re: #301 thedopefishlives

Not really. If you built an electric truck and tried to sell it to me on the premise that it could go, say, 35 miles on electric power like the Chevy Volt, or 20 miles fully loaded, I would tell you to take that truck and shove it. In a world where 35 miles will get me about 3/4 of the way to my destination, that is simply unacceptable. That's not really competing side-by-side, no matter how big the environmental differences are. It just doesn't fit the requirements.

How about if the choice was:

A) truck goes 200 miles on a tank of gas, catastrophic global warming, earth's population declines to 500m, widespread humanitarian disaster and misery

B) truck goes 20 miles on electric, global warming averted

Which of those two options do you choose?

304 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:27:31am

re: #301 thedopefishlives

No, dude.

If I built an electric truck and told you that you could go 35 miles in it, or you could go 1000 miles in a gas-powered truck but the food stocks of the world would collapse after you drove it and the price of bread would be $30 a loaf, you'd say that both options suck, which is true.

What we need is advancement in sustainable technology, and recognition that our unsustainable technologies have horrible costs.

I'm not claiming that for every unsustainable technology and industry we already have a sustainable one waiting to take over. But in the case of the lightbulbs, one of the examples you gave, we definitely do.

305 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:30:01am

re: #297 Killgore Trout

It's the nature of a disposable economy. Convenience trumps frugality and common sense. If you can get a plastic fork instead of having to wash the regular utensil, someone's likely to go to the plastic.

And bamboo for all of its renewablility is still something that requires quite a bit of energy to turn into a plate/cup/utensil, and the process requires quite a few nasty chemicals at that - similar to those required to make regular paper. So, while you can regrow bamboo quite quickly (but which requires prodigious amounts of water) compared to a tree, which takes a generation or longer to reforest, it isn't quite the panacea either.

It's all about tradeoffs and balancing costs.

If you think about the permanence of a metal utensil and ceramic plate versus the plastic and bamboo disposable versions of same, the higher energy cost to make the former will over time be far less than having to make the plastic and bamboo items over and over again.

Same thing with vehicles and pretty much everything else. If you get something durable that's going to last longer, it will end up saving energy in the long run.

306 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:30:37am

re: #303 iossarian

How about if the choice was:

A) truck goes 200 miles on a tank of gas, catastrophic global warming, earth's population declines to 500m, widespread humanitarian disaster and misery

B) truck goes 20 miles on electric, global warming averted

Which of those two options do you choose?

As Obdicut just pointed out, the answer would be neither. Option A is unacceptable due to the cost, as you obviously intended it to be. Option B simply does not fill the basic requirements. It is equally unacceptable because it will not do what I need it to do, no matter how environmentally friendly it is. These are the kinds of voids that we need to start filling if we want environmentally sustainable options to become competitive and even popular.

307 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:30:43am

On a side note, I've been trying to find a job in a truly 'green' industry, or at an advocacy group, or anything else that would actually be good, in my eyes, for about three years now, and I haven't found anything. I've barely found anything I can apply for.

I'm hoping that I can eventually go back to school, old as I am, so that I can actually do something in line with my beliefs.

308 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:31:04am

re: #294 Obdicut


If there were a simple way of determining without a doubt that say, 40% of Mrs. McGillicuddy's asthma was caused by emissions from a particular plant, then she could sue the plant for that share of her medical costs.

If enough people did that, it would be incentive enough for the plant to reduce its emissions.

But we can't, and that is what environmental regulations are meant to address.

309 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:31:55am

It's kind of ironic that I found my present job by searching the Internet for "green jobs"

310 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:32:04am

Headed out shortly - but, the pushback on RightWing overreach is phenomenal.

* personhood in MS
* union stripping in ohio
* voting in Maine
* democrat re-elected in Kentucky
* extremist recalled in AZ
Further pushback ballot initiatives are on the cards.

Downside though is the the GOP will completely ignore it all and double down, a couple of months back the GOP house in Arizona voted to gut a non-partisan committee passed on a public initiative.

They don't respect democracy when it goes against them.

311 Summer Seale  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:32:39am

Happy Birthday, Carl Sagan.

Here is one of his most beautiful speeches on a particular human conceit:

Consider Again That Pale Blue Dot.

312 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:32:49am

re: #304 Obdicut

I'm not claiming that for every unsustainable technology and industry we already have a sustainable one waiting to take over. But in the case of the lightbulbs, one of the examples you gave, we definitely do.

The light bulbs are, admittedly, more of a preference/expense issue - almost all the lights in my house are on dimmers, and dimmer-capable CFL's are pricey at best, plus I don't particularly like the quality of light that they produce. Although at least on that last point, they have been improving somewhat.

313 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:34:40am

re: #305 lawhawk

If you think about the permanence of a metal utensil and ceramic plate versus the plastic and bamboo disposable versions of same, the higher energy cost to make the former will over time be far less than having to make the plastic and bamboo items over and over again.

Why do you believe this to be true?

Why do you think the process of converting bamboo into usable products can't be improved? Just because most industries currently make it into rayon doesn't mean that's the only possibility-- just that that's currently the most economically feasible possibility.

Why do you say that a metal or ceramic plate is permanent? In industrial use-- like, a cafeteria-- a ceramic plate has a very limited number of uses. 100-1000, depending on what it's made of, how it's cleaned, etc.

How is that permanent?

314 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:37:17am

re: #306 thedopefishlives

As Obdicut just pointed out, the answer would be neither. Option A is unacceptable due to the cost, as you obviously intended it to be. Option B simply does not fill the basic requirements. It is equally unacceptable because it will not do what I need it to do, no matter how environmentally friendly it is. These are the kinds of voids that we need to start filling if we want environmentally sustainable options to become competitive and even popular.

So what you're saying is, you wouldn't try to find a way to live within the limitations of green technology, even if that would avoid the devastation of 90% of the world's population.

I happen to believe that option A is "more unacceptable" than option B, but maybe there's a need to drive a truck more than 20 miles that outweighs the lives of 6.5 billion people?

315 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:37:21am

re: #307 Obdicut

On a side note, I've been trying to find a job in a truly 'green' industry, or at an advocacy group, or anything else that would actually be good, in my eyes, for about three years now, and I haven't found anything. I've barely found anything I can apply for.

I'm hoping that I can eventually go back to school, old as I am, so that I can actually do something in line with my beliefs.

I was about to suggest the urban gardening movement but it's not really a field where you can get a job and making a career out of it. Maybe that's the catch, most of the truly sustainable and "green" ideas aren't really the kind of thing that's profitable from an employment standpoint.

316 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:37:40am

Shit, about eight of our pieces of wedding china are already chipped. Five have broken. Six of them broke while shipping to us. And that's 'permanent'?

317 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:37:58am

re: #310 wozzablog

Locally, in NJ the State Senate remained in Democrat hands despite Christie politicking and campaigning heavily to get a few vulnerable Democrats booted from the Senate. In fact, the Democrats picked up a seat. Statewide, a ballot measure to get sports book allowed at Atlantic City was approved, but requires federal law changes to enact. It's hoped that the sports book would open a new line of business for Atlantic City, and bring in new revenues.

But nationally, it appears that the trend was to stick with the incumbents - the numbers suggest that despite all the angst over the political situation, people are still in favor of their own representatives despite all the shortcomings.

Speaking of gambling revenues - NYC/NYS hit the jackpot with the opening of the new racino (casino) at Aqueduct. The casino, operated by Genting International finally opened a few weeks back after 10 years in delays and graft in the process. The deal that the casino has with the state is simple: the state gets nearly 2/3 of the take, and the casino has been making $1.5 million a day - and it's not even fully open. That money is supposed to be devoted to education, funding the horse racing industry, and gambling addiction programs, so it's one of the few bright spots in the budget around here.

318 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:38:56am

re: #315 Killgore Trout

I was about to suggest the urban gardening movement but it's not really a field where you can get a job and making a career out of it. Maybe that's the catch, most of the truly sustainable and "green" ideas aren't really the kind of thing that's profitable from an employment standpoint.

That is a large part of the problem. I can't really hold it against anyone to take a job that they need in order to feed their family. And there just aren't a lot of green jobs out there. Our entire economy is basted around waste and profligate energy use. It will take large, top-down efforts to change that, as well as a societal shift. It is daunting in how hard it will be, which is why I don't actually think it'll happen.

319 Killgore Trout  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:40:21am

Well, I'm off to drive downtown for my third attempt at getting a permit for my greenhouse. Wish me luck.

320 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:41:19am

re: #305 lawhawk

...snip

Same thing with vehicles and pretty much everything else. If you get something durable that's going to last longer, it will end up saving energy in the long run.

That's how I justify my 35 yr old 17mpg truck. It has obviated the cradle-to-grave energy costs of producing 7 average cars.

321 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:41:21am

re: #314 iossarian

So what you're saying is, you wouldn't try to find a way to live within the limitations of green technology, even if that would avoid the devastation of 90% of the world's population.

I happen to believe that option A is "more unacceptable" than option B, but maybe there's a need to drive a truck more than 20 miles that outweighs the lives of 6.5 billion people?

How about being a farmer that provides food for some of those 6.5 billion people.

322 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:43:23am

re: #317 lawhawk

Good news about NJ'ers not being bullied by Christie.

Somewhere to watch very closely is Ohio, The "generic" republican there, who people thought would be Kasich has turned in to a sack of manure. GOP need Ohio in '12 -the AEI, Kochs and Kasich could lose Ohio for a generation.

There's an anti-incumbancy mood where the over-reach has been worst.

323 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:43:34am

re: #320 Decatur Deb

And that's perfectly fair. However, it'd be superior to get a new truck that you know would last a long time with much better gas mileage.

The kicker being, of course, that it's pretty hard to figure out which makes and models will actually last a long time. We generate that data over time. Especially with the increased computerization of cars and their dependence on fancy circuitry, there's less reason to put faith into claims of longevity.

And that's assuming China isn't refurbishing the chips in the first place. Which they are.

324 darthstar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:44:17am

re: #269 Alouette

I have a hard time believing that my using cloth grocery bags and never eating fast food has any impact on the environment.

It makes a difference in your personal space. Less trash to take out to the curb. Less crap for your body to process (preservatives, grease, etc.). We went to the farmer's market last two weekends and have been cooking at home more often, and when I took the trash out last night, I was amazed at how light it was. Less waste = less waste...it really does add up, except that it increases only in its absence.

325 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:44:34am

re: #301 thedopefishlives

Not really. If you built an electric truck and tried to sell it to me on the premise that it could go, say, 35 miles on electric power like the Chevy Volt, or 20 miles fully loaded, I would tell you to take that truck and shove it. In a world where 35 miles will get me about 3/4 of the way to my destination, that is simply unacceptable. That's not really competing side-by-side, no matter how big the environmental differences are. It just doesn't fit the requirements.

Considered going to natural gas in the truck? Now in a more urban setting like LA, "Staples" the office supply retailer is starting to use electric delivery trucks.

326 darthstar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:45:48am

re: #316 Obdicut

Shit, about eight of our pieces of wedding china are already chipped. Five have broken. Six of them broke while shipping to us. And that's 'permanent'?

Fewer Greek themed dinner parties would help.

327 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:46:33am

re: #321 thedopefishlives

How about being a farmer that provides food for some of those 6.5 billion people.

Exactly, which is why there is going to have to be massive regulation of energy use, if there's any hope of of balancing the twin requirements of avoiding too much global warming and sustaining the existing population's needs.

Sorry if my previous comment was harsh, BTW, I didn't mean it as a personal slam. I do think we need to be clear about the implications of not tackling the problem, though.

328 darthstar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:47:53am

Mornin' everyone...Too bad yesterday's elections were only a "low turn-out, off-year anomaly" and nothing to really worry about for the GOP. I was kind of hoping they'd be licking their wounds this morning, but their capacity for denial is really quite impressive.

329 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:48:03am

re: #323 Obdicut

And that's perfectly fair. However, it'd be superior to get a new truck that you know would last a long time with much better gas mileage.

The kicker being, of course, that it's pretty hard to figure out which makes and models will actually last a long time. We generate that data over time. Especially with the increased computerization of cars and their dependence on fancy circuitry, there's less reason to put faith into claims of longevity.

And that's assuming China isn't refurbishing the chips in the first place. Which they are.

As long as the parts are made (China/India are also making them) old Landrovers are essentially immortal. The net has made fixing them cheaper and easier than it was 20 years ago. Chips? Only chips in my truck are in the paint.

330 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:48:37am

re: #323 Obdicut

And that's assuming China isn't refurbishing the chips in the first place. Which they are.

Even the military has a difficult time with that. Yesterday we learned about Navy aircraft, now we see missile defense has issues.

331 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:50:23am

It's great switching to electric cars - but while electric is being made from coal, the environmental damage being done is moved from the Seabed to West Virginia.

Hydrogen is the way forward in locomotion.

332 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:50:32am

re: #329 Decatur Deb

A friend of mine out in the Philippines makes 'jeepneys', which are basically hand-fabricated from the frames of old fords with whatever engines, trannies, etc. they have lying around.

The ones based on landrover frames are the most sought-after and expensive. Oddly enough, the VW van frames are also liked a great deal.

333 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:50:56am

re: #327 iossarian

Exactly, which is why there is going to have to be massive regulation of energy use, if there's any hope of of balancing the twin requirements of avoiding too much global warming and sustaining the existing population's needs.

Sorry if my previous comment was harsh, BTW, I didn't mean it as a personal slam. I do think we need to be clear about the implications of not tackling the problem, though.

Oh, no, I agree. All my posts were intended to point out is that there are still some points that need to be resolved in order for environmental solutions to be amenable to larger audiences. Myself, I could probably even get by with an electric car, if I could be reassured that it would last long enough to offset the enormous costs associated with building one of the darn things.

334 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:51:12am

re: #331 wozzablog

Or a real biofuel. Or getting the electricity from sustainable sources. But yeah, that's one of the big current catch 22's.

335 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:51:32am

re: #332 Obdicut

A friend of mine out in the Philippines makes 'jeepneys', which are basically hand-fabricated from the frames of old fords with whatever engines, trannies, etc. they have lying around.

The ones based on landrover frames are the most sought-after and expensive. Oddly enough, the VW van frames are also liked a great deal.

Remember Jeepneys from old National Geographics--a real art form.

336 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:52:23am

re: #332 Obdicut

A friend of mine out in the Philippines makes 'jeepneys', which are basically hand-fabricated from the frames of old fords with whatever engines, trannies, etc. they have lying around.

The ones based on landrover frames are the most sought-after and expensive. Oddly enough, the VW van frames are also liked a great deal.

The Volkswagen Type 2 is a tank among tanks. VW used that frame for just about everything until they built the Golf/Rabbit.

337 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:53:06am

re: #334 Obdicut

Or a real biofuel. Or getting the electricity from sustainable sources. But yeah, that's one of the big current catch 22's.

Unless the bio-fuel is used cooking oil or a natural waste product it's an absolute no go.

Bio-fuels that are harvested are pushing up food prices through the supply chain.

Animal feed is becoming more expensive, bread is becoming more expensive - any crop or agricultural product that relies on growing space is suffering because of the growing of bio-fuels.

338 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:53:55am

re: #305 lawhawk

It's the nature of a disposable economy. Convenience trumps frugality and common sense. If you can get a plastic fork instead of having to wash the regular utensil, someone's likely to go to the plastic.

And bamboo for all of its renewablility is still something that requires quite a bit of energy to turn into a plate/cup/utensil, and the process requires quite a few nasty chemicals at that - similar to those required to make regular paper. So, while you can regrow bamboo quite quickly (but which requires prodigious amounts of water) compared to a tree, which takes a generation or longer to reforest, it isn't quite the panacea either.

It's all about tradeoffs and balancing costs.

If you think about the permanence of a metal utensil and ceramic plate versus the plastic and bamboo disposable versions of same, the higher energy cost to make the former will over time be far less than having to make the plastic and bamboo items over and over again.

Same thing with vehicles and pretty much everything else. If you get something durable that's going to last longer, it will end up saving energy in the long run.

And modern materials and packaging causes a lot of chaos in the developing countries.

Malaysia (chosen as an example since I saw this first hand) has a major educational issue regarding littering and related pollution. In the established culture most things were wrapped/packaged using leaves, bamboo, etc. which were biodegradable and thus could be easily disposed of via a rubbish heap (or arguably dumped in the jungle). So there is an entrenched habit for just throwing stuff away.

Enter packaging using plastic and hard-to-degrade materials and this habit spawns issues with public places getting heavily littered with the attendent problems. Thus your government now needs to start a heavy enforcement and education campaign to change the habit - along with some associated social backlash. (And you also get to complicate the process by adding the "disposable society" complications mentioned above involving many consumer items and even items (like spoons) that used to be kept and used long term.

340 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:55:50am

re: #334 Obdicut

Or a real biofuel. Or getting the electricity from sustainable sources. But yeah, that's one of the big current catch 22's.

The old LR can be converted to LPG for about $200, for $2,000 I can put in a rebuilt biodiesel. (As-is, it can be timed down to the vodka range.) I probably won't convert it until something wears out--it's real job is just to make a 'round-town car unnecessary.

341 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:56:17am

re: #337 wozzablog

I'm talking about biofuels from non-food sources. Algae/bacteria would be the best, but stuff like switchgrass, kudzu, hemp grown on land that's insufficient for food stock would be very nice too.

And yeah, using by-product would be great. There's a ton of agricultural waste that gets dumped into rivers or goes into landfill that could be used for bioefuel.

342 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:57:18am

re: #331 wozzablog

It's great switching to electric cars - but while electric is being made from coal, the environmental damage being done is moved from the Seabed to West Virginia.

Hydrogen is the way forward in locomotion.

In my previous job, I worked on a pretty in-depth study of potential future personal locomotion power sources (the most-used technical term is powertrain).

Regarding hydrogen (combustion or fuel cell), you still have to obtain the hydrogen, which at the moment also involves burning coal (or whatever other large-scale energy source you have on hand). For that, and various other reasons (mostly related to the current state of the technology), I believe that battery/electric is the best current solution.

The main other reason, actually, is that with large adoption of battery-powered cars, you actually put one of the components in place to build a smart grid that can smooth out some of the variable capacity problems associated with renewable energy (specifically wind power).

343 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:57:21am

re: #341 Obdicut

I'm talking about biofuels from non-food sources. Algae/bacteria would be the best, but stuff like switchgrass, kudzu, hemp grown on land that's insufficient for food stock would be very nice too.

And yeah, using by-product would be great. There's a ton of agricultural waste that gets dumped into rivers or goes into landfill that could be used for bioefuel.

Macdonalds in the UK power their trucks on the used cooking oil from the deep fat fryers.

344 darthstar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:57:40am

Cute story, related to recent news about sexual harassment in schools between kids: A buddy at work said an 8th grader came up to his daughter at school the other day and asked her what size her (bra) cups were. She responded, "Bigger than you can handle, fucker."...well, the school was shocked, SHOCKED! that she would use such language and the principal sent him an email about his daughter's foul tongue.

He wrote back asking, "Are you telling me you're aware of sexual harassment in your school and that you're not concerned about it?" The principal quickly replied that she was certain they could resolve the issue off-line.

I told him to keep pushing. And yes, he high-fived his daughter when she got home.

345 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:58:33am

re: #343 wozzablog

Macdonalds in the UK power their trucks on the used cooking oil from the deep fat fryers.

I've thought about converting my Volkswagen diesel to run on biodiesel. Most restaurants that run a fryer will sell their used cooking oil on the cheap.

346 Obdicut  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:58:49am

Alright. Enough ranting and raving on my part. I've got a paperwork backlog, and my wife has a huge test that she'll be coming home from exhausted, so I want to make sure the apartment is nice for her.

347 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 6:59:10am

re: #343 wozzablog

Macdonalds in the UK power their trucks on the used cooking oil from the deep fat fryers.

Yup. But the government gives individuals a bit of crap over road-use taxes.

348 darthstar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:00:05am

re: #339 Obdicut

My favorite Jeepney/bus from when I was in the Philippines (and I've long since lost the picture) had a big mural of Christ on it and, in five inch letters across the back bumper, "I thrust in Jesus"...I thought that was so fucking funny.

349 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:00:23am

re: #345 thedopefishlives

I've thought about converting my Volkswagen diesel to run on biodiesel. Most restaurants that run a fryer will sell their used cooking oil on the cheap.

Thats the way to go until they start taxing it.
Eventually the tax levels will rise on renewables in cars to maintain the roads network.

350 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:01:55am

re: #347 Decatur Deb

Yup. But the government gives individuals a bit of crap over road-use taxes.

Roads need paying for.

351 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:03:44am

BBL.

Have a good day people.

And I will leave you with this -
Email etiquette and when to send kisses
[Link: www.monocle.com...]


xxxx

352 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:04:04am

re: #349 wozzablog

Thats the way to go until they start taxing it.
Eventually the tax levels will rise on renewables in cars to maintain the roads network.

Subsidize Clydesdales

Heh. Actually possibly not a bad idea if the situations where lower horsepower can be identified and they are concentrated in areas where using horses would prove economical.

353 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:04:15am

re: #350 wozzablog

Roads need paying for.

Oh yes. The use of recovered cooking oil has some of the old hippie dumpster-diving ethic about it. ("We live in such a wasteful society that we can live forever on the good garbage.")

354 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:08:10am

re: #352 oaktree

Heh. Actually possibly not a bad idea if the situations where lower horsepower can be identified and they are concentrated in areas where using horses would prove economical.

Check the words to Tull's 'Heavy Horses'. Very prophetic.

Let me find you a filly for your proud stallion seed
to keep the old line going.
And we'll stand you abreast at the back of the wood
behind the young trees growing.
To hide you from eyes that mock at your girth,
and your eighteen hands at the shoulder.
And one day when the oil barons have all dripped dry
and the nights are seen to draw colder
they'll beg for your strength, your gentle power
your noble grace and your bearing.
And you'll strain once again to the sound of the gulls
in the wake of the deep plough, sharing.

Youtube Video
355 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:11:00am

re: #354 Decatur Deb

Jethro... Tull... must... upding... cannot... resist...

356 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:12:54am

re: #354 Decatur Deb

Image: CO_05_Briggs_stratton.jpg

My BIL breeds Clydes out in Colorado. :)

357 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:12:55am

Ian Anderson could teach Mike Tomlin a thing or two about mad staring eyes and that's saying something.

Maybe the Steelers would play better if Tomlin whipped out a flute every so often and started playing folk-rock riffs.

358 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:14:59am

re: #356 oaktree

Image: CO_05_Briggs_stratton.jpg

My BIL breeds Clydes out in Colorado. :)

Cool. Make him your favorite BIL.

359 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:16:26am

re: #348 darthstar

My favorite Jeepney/bus from when I was in the Philippines (and I've long since lost the picture) had a big mural of Christ on it and, in five inch letters across the back bumper, "I thrust in Jesus"...I thought that was so fucking funny.

Jesus shoves you

360 darthstar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:17:54am

Okay...time to run the boys...bbl.

361 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:19:13am

re: #356 oaktree

Image: CO_05_Briggs_stratton.jpg

My BIL breeds Clydes out in Colorado. :)

Are those two horses named "Briggs" and "Stratton"? If so, your BIL is badass.

362 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:20:36am

re: #260 Decatur Deb

Begin planning how to put civilization in Safe Mode.

alt-ctrl-delete; f8f8f8f8f8f8f8f8f8f8

363 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:21:24am

re: #359 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Jesus shoves you

Give your hole self to Jesus.

364 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:22:55am

re: #361 Decatur Deb

Are those two horses named "Briggs" and "Stratton"? If so, your BIL is badass.

Short answer is "yes".

When the picture was taken in '05 Briggs was about 2.5 and Stratton 1.5. Briggs was originally called "Briggs and Stratton" solely, but was shortened to "Briggs" when Stratton was born. They have the same parents. And a year later Stratton was larger than Briggs.

They were at some point both gelded. And have been used as a matched team at stock shows.

And I need to get more pictures from Colorado into that album. Have some other nice shots of the horses and ranch from '05 and '07.

365 darthstar  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:24:33am

Image: Oo68E.jpg

No...he's not bitter.

366 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:24:39am

re: #362 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

alt-ctrl-delete; f8f8f8f8f8f8f8f8f8f8

When Ludwig is in stride, it makes me think of this:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

367 Kronocide  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:26:13am

re: #365 darthstar

Image: Oo68E.jpg

No...he's not bitter.

OMFG. What a punk.

368 Gus  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:27:32am

re: #365 darthstar

Image: Oo68E.jpg

No...he's not bitter.

Wait a minute. That's not the real Kris Humphries.

Not Kris Humphries
@Kris_Humphries
NBA superstar. Former husband of Kim K. Parody account.

369 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:27:41am

re: #365 darthstar

Image: Oo68E.jpg

No...he's not bitter.

[Link: www.footballoutsiders.com...]

Here's another take on that particular piece of popular culture.

370 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:28:10am

re: #27 ProLifeLiberal

Now, we just need to make sure that the Conservative can't get back into power. Get these voter suppression laws out, and get immigration among the disenchanted in Egypt up.

Funneling several million of the disenchanted young people in Egypt whose revolution has failed into the Upper Midwest, especially Michigan, will have a fantastic effect.

And this would be good for Michigan how?

Would it improve the average educational level in MI? No.

Would the new voters vote for gay rights? No.

I guess maybe they'd help Occupy Wall Street stand up to the Copts.

371 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:29:07am

re: #338 oaktree

Malaysia (chosen as an example since I saw this first hand) has a major educational issue regarding littering and related pollution. In the established culture most things were wrapped/packaged using leaves, bamboo, etc. which were biodegradable and thus could be easily disposed of via a rubbish heap (or arguably dumped in the jungle). So there is an entrenched habit for just throwing stuff away.

I saw a similar thing on the Hopi reservation in the 1980's: they were obviously used to tipping their bones and pottery shards over the edge of the mesa, but I recall seeing the side of the mesa littered with pampers, tin cans, pülastic bottles, etc.

372 Gus  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:29:40am

re: #368 Gus 802

Wait a minute. That's not the real Kris Humphries.

Not Kris Humphries
@Kris_Humphries
NBA superstar. Former husband of Kim K. Parody account.

Someone Photoshoped the word "Not" out of that Tweet. This is the original Tweet here.

373 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:33:19am

Mental health worker fired after reporting client searched for child porn on computer.

The client, John Gribble, is charged with sexually abusing a child after a DVD with photos of nude children was found at his house.

The Missoulian reported Wednesday that an employee of Three Rivers Mental Health Solutions contacted police about Gribble on Oct. 17.
The employee first told her supervisors, who told her not to report Gribble. Three Rivers administrator Shea Hennelly says reports that break medical confidentiality must include the names and address of the child involved and the extent of the child's injuries.

"In order to provide mental health services, we can't engage in dual roles. We're not allowed to go to police" unless actual child abuse is observed, Hennelly told The Missoulian. "She didn't witness someone abusing a child. What this woman reported to this office was she saw the tab of Web browsers that said teenage girls. That's a lot different."

Not sure if all the circumstances of the case have been released, but I would say that she was doing her job - and that informing the authorities of the events would have been proper. It's a tough call, but the mental health employee should have been able to keep the job. It was the morally and ethically correct thing to do.

374 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:35:56am

re: #99 ggt

If I understand this correctly:

Basically, anyone working a minimum wage job qualifies for SNAP.

Minimum wage is not a living wage.

Your link specifies the income standard for two people as $1594 per month.

Two workers, each working 30 hours a week at $8.00 per hour, would earn $2160 per month.

So it depends on how many people in the family work, whether minimum wage or thereabouts will qualify for SNAP.

375 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:35:58am

re: #372 Gus 802

A no-talent ass clown in Kardashian is fame whore (who became famous after showing off her goods in a "leaked" sex romp tape and then poses for Playboy, launches tv show with sisters) and married NBA player to make even more money. Media fawns over both for some mystifying reason.

She's got plenty of business sense, but it's mystifying why she's famous other than that she wants to be famous to be famous.

376 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:36:27am

re: #373 lawhawk

FTA:

"She didn't witness someone abusing a child. What this woman reported to this office was she saw the tab of Web browsers that said teenage girls. That's a lot different."

I'm sorry, what? Child pornography may not be actively abusing a child, but it might as well be. I understand doctor-patient confidentiality, but come on.

377 Gus  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:36:42am

re: #375 lawhawk

A no-talent ass clown in Kardashian is fame whore (who became famous after showing off her goods in a "leaked" sex romp tape and then poses for Playboy, launches tv show with sisters) and married NBA player to make even more money. Media fawns over both for some mystifying reason.

She's got plenty of business sense, but it's mystifying why she's famous other than that she wants to be famous to be famous.

I never heard of him.

378 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:38:13am

re: #373 lawhawk

Mental health worker fired after reporting client searched for child porn on computer.

Not sure if all the circumstances of the case have been released, but I would say that she was doing her job - and that informing the authorities of the events would have been proper. It's a tough call, but the mental health employee should have been able to keep the job. It was the morally and ethically correct thing to do.

Interesting case.

Would a law firm fire a lawyer who reported a client's suspected criminal activity to the authorities? How does attorney-client privilege work in those cases?

379 sattv4u2  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:38:24am

re: #377 Gus 802

I never heard of him.

He's never heard of you either!
/

380 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:45:56am

Well, now I feel a might sheepish. Got up early and started getting dressed for work, only to look at my clock in the process and realize I don't work today.

381 lostlakehiker  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:46:26am

re: #307 Obdicut

On a side note, I've been trying to find a job in a truly 'green' industry, or at an advocacy group, or anything else that would actually be good, in my eyes, for about three years now, and I haven't found anything. I've barely found anything I can apply for.

I'm hoping that I can eventually go back to school, old as I am, so that I can actually do something in line with my beliefs.

Our best way out of this is to get to where green energy just beats fossil fuel in the marketplace. If we can do that, then fossil fuel use will collapse as everybody shifts to the cheaper green.

Work that contributes to that can be seemingly far afield. Advanced materials? Check. Better legal environment for high tension power transmission lines? Check. Faster computers, better algorithms? Check.

But there's more. Teach chemistry? Check. [He who knows chemistry, knows enough to cut through the BS of denialist talk.] etc.

382 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:46:44am

re: #370 lostlakehiker

And this would be good for Michigan how?

Would it improve the average educational level in MI? No.

Would the new voters vote for gay rights? No.

I guess maybe they'd help Occupy Wall Street stand up to the Copts.

Yer concern is noted.

383 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:47:06am

re: #378 iossarian

The Professional Rules (see NY for example) for lawyers has sections dealing with attorney client privilege and illegal acts by clients.

As officers of the court, the lawyers are bound to report crimes under certain circumstances, and there are ethical considerations as well. For example:

DR 7-102 [1200.33] Representing a Client Within the Bounds of the Law.

A. In the representation of a client, a lawyer shall not:

1. File a suit, assert a position, conduct a defense, delay a trial, or take other action on behalf of the client when the lawyer knows or when it is obvious that such action would serve merely to harass or maliciously injure another.

2. Knowingly advance a claim or defense that is unwarranted under existing law, except that the lawyer may advance such claim or defense if it can be supported by good faith argument for an extension, modification, or reversal of existing law.

3. Conceal or knowingly fail to disclose that which the lawyer is required by law to reveal.

4. Knowingly use perjured testimony or false evidence.

5. Knowingly make a false statement of law or fact.

6. Participate in the creation or preservation of evidence when the lawyer knows or it is obvious that the evidence is false.

7. Counsel or assist the client in conduct that the lawyer knows to be illegal or fraudulent.

8. Knowingly engage in other illegal conduct or conduct contrary to a Disciplinary Rule.

B. A lawyer who receives information clearly establishing that:

1. The client has, in the course of the representation, perpetrated a fraud upon a person or tribunal shall promptly call upon the client to rectify the same, and if the client refuses or is unable to do so, the lawyer shall reveal the fraud to the affected person or tribunal, except when the information is protected as a confidence or secret.

2. A person other than the client has perpetrated a fraud upon a tribunal shall reveal the fraud to the tribunal.

384 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:47:53am

re: #380 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well, now I feel a might sheepish. Got up early and started getting dressed for work, only to look at my clock in the process and realize I don't work today.

I get up about an hour earlier than normal this week because the cat overlords are still running on Daylight Savings time and thus the "fill the dish NOW" chorus starts up at 6am rather than 7am.

385 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:48:10am

re: #381 lostlakehiker

But there's more. Teach chemistry? Check. [He who knows chemistry, knows enough to cut through the BS of denialist talk.] etc.

A fine-arts friend of mine once recommended that, instead of cutting music and art classes from schools, they should cut biology and other "useless sciences". The thought just astounded me. She may not use them in her everyday life, but that knowledge is extremely valuable in today's denialist environment. Not to mention, some kids DO actually like that stuff and go into those fields, just as much as music and art.

386 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:49:44am

Morning all!

387 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:49:59am

re: #384 oaktree

I get up about an hour earlier than normal this week because the cat overlords are still running on Daylight Savings time and thus the "fill the dish NOW" chorus starts up at 6am rather than 7am.

"FEED ME, SEYMOUR!"

/

388 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:50:22am

re: #383 lawhawk

FAQ from the OH bar about when a lawyer should report crimes.

389 Gus  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:50:23am

re: #386 ggt

Morning all!

Youtube Video
390 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:50:57am

re: #389 Gus 802

[Video]

Yes, that would be me in the morning.

391 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:52:51am

You rang?

392 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:54:08am

It's blustery again in my part of the world. I'd love to curl-up with some puppies.

393 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:55:46am

re: #245 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

In the end (whether we subsidize them or not) "all of us" will still pay the true (and some made-up) costs. Companies always find a way to pass their operating costs (whatever those costs are) on to "all of us".

Which will in turn make alternative energy sources that much more enticing. Right now they can keep the fossil energy prices artificially low (even tho' we are really paying in more hidden ways than one), get the true cost out there and solar, wind, geothermal, water, and other sources close that artificial cost gap quickly.

394 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:56:36am

re: #393 RayFerd

Which will in turn make alternative energy sources that much more enticing. Right now they can keep the fossil energy prices artificially low (even tho' we are really paying in more hidden ways than one), get the true cost out there and solar, wind, geothermal, water, and other sources close that artificial cost gap quickly.

oooh, I'd love a link that itemizes all the ways they keep the prices artifically low.

395 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 7:59:40am

Well, I have to go out into the bluster.

Have a great day all!

396 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:01:23am

re: #392 ggt

It's blustery again in my part of the world. I'd love to curl-up with some puppies.

(((puppies)))

How is Old Puppy doing?

397 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:07:37am

Well, my brain is a-ok. In case anyone was wondering.

398 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:08:12am

re: #388 lawhawk

Thanks for the information!

There's obviously a big gray area where it's someone's job (or, more powerfully, their societal function) to protect/help another person who may be breaking the law.

Still agree that the health worker shouldn't have been fired, but there are arguments to be made on both sides.

399 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:08:36am

Morning guys !
Joe Walsh melts down,"...don't blame the banks...this pisses me off..."

Nice.
He just doesn't want anyone telling him he has to pay child support.

400 recusancy  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:15:27am

Half of China’s millionaires want to leave

Where do China’s millionaires want to move? North America is the top choice. The United States is the most popular immigration destination for Chinese millionaires, attracting 40% of the respondents who are interested in leaving China, followed closely by Canada (37%) followed by Singapore and Europe.

Half of the investors said they want to leave for better overseas education opportunities for their children. About a third invest abroad as a step toward emigration, while a quarter of them do so to diversify and manage risk.

But don't they know that we're socialists hellbent on sucking every last dollar from the rich job creators?

402 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:29:34am

re: #397 000G

Well, my brain is a-ok. In case anyone was wondering.

Did they scan your cat?

/

403 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:30:58am

re: #400 recusancy

Half of China’s millionaires want to leave

But don't they know that we're socialists hellbent on sucking every last dollar from the rich job creators?

What, how can this be?! Don't they know that the rich in this country are already a single tax increase away from leaving en-mass?!

404 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:31:40am

Well...
Is it me, or is this thread deader than Cain's campaign ?

405 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:32:44am

re: #401 OhNoZombies!

State Question 759 in OK--State sen. Ralph Shortey (R), one of the measure’s sponsors, said that the measure shows that Oklahoma is “becoming more color-blind.” ...

"“One of the big reasons we need it is Oklahoma is perceived nationwide, and it is not warranted, as a racially biased state,” he said. “We don’t need that.”"

lmao, who ya foolin'?

406 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:33:13am

re: #404 OhNoZombies!

Well...
Is it me, or is this thread deader than Cain's campaign ?

Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

407 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:33:25am

re: #401 OhNoZombies!

State Question 759 in OK--State sen. Ralph Shortey (R), one of the measure’s sponsors, said that the measure shows that Oklahoma is “becoming more color-blind.” ...

Alrighty then.

Of course. The only way to fight the perception of your state as a hotbed of racism is to pass a law that prevents anyone from trying to undo the effects of generations of racial discrimination.

408 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:35:04am

re: #405 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Himself.

409 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:38:09am

re: #407 iossarian

It's funny how they always forget to mention AA was also to prevent discrimination against women.
//

410 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:38:31am

re: #400 recusancy


Manchurian candidates, all of them, just trying to infiltrate US capitalism to bring it to its knees through tax increases and regulation.

411 William of Orange  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:41:48am

Like many of you I've got a healthy dose of revulsion for Republican politicians, the party otherwise known as the "Party of No!". But this guy Lewis seems to me one of the few exceptions there are around. One particular statement resonated well to my ears.

In Lewis, they would get a man who like Pearce is White, conservative and Mormon, but who repeatedly contrasted himself to Pearce by saying his vision of leadership is to bring all sides together to find solutions, rather than ruling by fiat.

Lewis also pledged not to accept any gifts or special favors, particularly from lobbyists, a reference to the fact that critics skewered Pearce for accepting nearly $40,000 in free trips, hotel stays, meals and college football game tickets from the Fiesta Bowl.

Okay, nobody's perfect but ignoring lobbyists is a good way to start earning my respect. I hope he can keep his word and be strong enough to withstand the storms that will be coming his way.

Source for the quoted text.

412 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:43:26am

re: #411 William of Orange

The thing is, all of them say that. "I'm not going to take bribes, until they offer me the right bribe."

413 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:46:25am

re: #402 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Did they scan your cat?

/

Nope, MRI.

I complained about one particularly loud noise to the doctor.

He just waggled his eyebrows, grinned and said: "Oh, we have a much LOUDER machine."

Germans!

414 iossarian  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:47:00am

BBL

415 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:47:28am

Buck has an insightful and informative LGF page up: Is Occupy Wall Street Anti-Semitic?

///

416 Reverend Mother Ramallo  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:50:04am

Speaking of lobbyists...
Jack Abramoff argues that Capitol Hill staffers should be banned from being lobbyists...

Is he selling a book ?

417 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:50:35am

re: #413 000G

Nope, MRI.

I complained about one particularly loud noise to the doctor.

He just waggled his eyebrows, grinned and said: "Oh, we have a much LOUDER machine."

Germans!

If they bring out the machine that goes "PING" that means that an administrator is making the rounds to check up on them.
/

418 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:50:44am

re: #411 William of Orange


We do not rule by Fiat! That's an Italian import!!! We rule by GM, Ford and Chrysler!!!!!

419 William of Orange  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:51:18am

Another snip of the article I mentioned above is this telling tale. Remember Cortes?

One of the most bizarre tactics, however, involved a Mexican immigrant named Olivia Cortes, whom Pearce supporters admitted helping to get on the ballot in the hopes of draining votes away from Lewis.

Pearce denied any knowledge of how Cortes came to be a candidate, but his supporters, including two of his nieces, carried nominating petitions for Cortes, and several paid petition circulators told signers they were trying to get Cortes on the ballot to benefit Pearce.

Cortes' name appeared on the ballot even though she officially pulled out of the race. Cortes received roughly 250 votes out of more than 20,000 cast.
Sen. Rich Crandall, R-Mesa, said the result did not surprise him.

"I feel bad for Russell from the standpoint that it was the worst-run campaign I've ever seen," Crandall said. "I've never seen more miscues in an election than what happened to him."

Sen. Andy Biggs, R-Gilbert, will be one of several candidates to replace Pearce as Senate president.

"I am profoundly disappointed that he (Pearce) didn't win," he said.

Biggs said the Cortes election flap turned many voters against Pearce and could have cost him 4-5 points in the election. "That was a startling miscalculation," he said.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! And Biggs is unfit to succeed Pearce.

420 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:51:39am

re: #417 oaktree

One ping. One ping only Vasily. /Ramius

421 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:52:22am

re: #418 ralphieboy

Except that Fiat now owns Chrysler, which means that Fiat rules Chrysler, by fiat. /

422 AK-47%  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:52:23am

re: #416 OhNoZombies!

Speaking of lobbyists...
Jack Abramoff argues that Capitol Hill staffers should be banned from being lobbyists...

Is he selling a book ?

Trying to re-brand himself as a pentinent reformer. I am sure that a book and speaking tour are already in the pipeline.

423 Lidane  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:53:32am

Penn State's Joe Paterno to retire

Penn State football coach Joe Paterno will retire at the end of the season, his long and illustrious career brought down because he failed to do all he could about an allegation of child sex abuse against a former assistant.

"I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief," Paterno said in a statement released just after initial reports of his pending retirement.

Joe Paterno will not walk Penn State's sideline again after this season. The Nittany Lions play their final 2011 home game Saturday vs. Nebraska.
"I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.

"That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.

"This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more. My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this university."

424 William of Orange  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:54:19am

re: #412 thedopefishlives

The thing is, all of them say that. "I'm not going to take bribes, until they offer me the right bribe."

I know, the wish is the father of the thought. But seeing that Pearce got most of his warchest outside of his district and outspend Lewis with a 3 to 1 margin, this really looks and is a victory for the underdog. I still hope he's more level headed.

425 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:56:40am

re: #419 William of Orange

Another snip of the article I mentioned above is this telling tale. Remember Cortes?


Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! And Biggs is unfit to succeed Pearce.

He'll serve as a distraction will Luke continues on to destroy the Obama Death Star...
//

426 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 8:57:30am

re: #420 lawhawk

One ping. One ping only Vasily. /Ramius

That line is a running joke with a co-worker when we're troubleshooting network issues.

427 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 9:06:35am

re: #328 darthstar

Mornin' everyone...Too bad yesterday's elections were only a "low turn-out, off-year anomaly" and nothing to really worry about for the GOP. I was kind of hoping they'd be licking their wounds this morning, but their capacity for denial is really quite impressive.

I have been hearing (even from repubs) that low voter turnout favors the repubs. If that has been the historical case, this should have them carrying around fecal matter in their fruit-of-the-looms.

428 Gepetto  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 9:10:29am

re: #122 Gus 802

Right wingers are the most evil people ever to hit the Earth. Think about it. Hitler was a right winger. Stalin was a right winger. Mao was a right winger. Che Guevara was a right winger. Fidel Castro was right winger.

re: #142 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

white bigots, and their admirers, only.

Anyone to the right of Gus is a right-winger, apparently. And Crap thinks a Chinese leader and two Latino leaders are white bigots. Priceless.

429 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 9:16:09am

re: #344 darthstar

Cute story, related to recent news about sexual harassment in schools between kids: A buddy at work said an 8th grader came up to his daughter at school the other day and asked her what size her (bra) cups were. She responded, "Bigger than you can handle, fucker."...well, the school was shocked, SHOCKED! that she would use such language and the principal sent him an email about his daughter's foul tongue.

He wrote back asking, "Are you telling me you're aware of sexual harassment in your school and that you're not concerned about it?" The principal quickly replied that she was certain they could resolve the issue off-line.

I told him to keep pushing. And yes, he high-fived his daughter when she got home.

He should have asked the principal what her cup size was and ask her to describe what shape she shaves her pubes. See how she answers that one.

430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 9:34:56am

re: #428 Gepetto

re: #142 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
And Crap thinks a Chinese leader and two Latino leaders are white bigots. Priceless.

Reading comprehension beyond Private School Vouchers Grad level, pls.

1- The comment chain for #142 goes: 142, 131, 126. "Big tent" in #131 is a rather blindingly obvious reference to the GOP

2- "and their admirers" might clue you in that the remark wasn't solely about "white bigots"

3- either way, the comment had nothing at all to do with Chinese leaders or two Latino leaders.

431 funky chicken  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:07:48am

Hmm. Koch brothers supported Lewis?

[Link: www.npr.org...]

So says a comment about the pic of celebrating Lewis...is that a Koch in the background?

432 Interesting Times  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:39:46am

re: #431 funky chicken

Hmm. Koch brothers supported Lewis?

[Link: www.npr.org...]

So says a comment about the pic of celebrating Lewis...is that a Koch in the background?

If you mean the grinning guy with the crossed arms, I don't think it's David Koch. His expression isn't nearly smug enough.

433 Gepetto  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 10:50:01am

re: #430 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

nonsense. you were talking about the right wing small tent with gus, who is maintaining that Che, Castro, Mao, Stalin etc are right wingers. since some of the right wingers Gus mentioned in his brilliant list are not generally considered white, you must mean they are white bigot admirers. I am sorry I misunderstood your comments about the small right wing white bigot tent that gus admits includes Latino and Chinese communists. Just tryin to follow the crazy train.

434 jamesfirecat  Wed, Nov 9, 2011 4:18:48pm

re: #38 Dark_Falcon

Your dream is my nightmare, and strikes me as utter folly. I don't want to import angry people from an alien culture who've been raised in a media environment dominated by anti-American, anti-Jewish, and anti-Christian propaganda.

You would bring the people who attacked the Israeli Embassy in Cairo here! That's importing a 5th Column in my eyes.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

So long as you are willing to prove how much you love us and came from a culture that loves us because otherwise get the hell right back where you came from!

435 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 10, 2011 6:13:27am

re: #123 Gus 802

Stalin may have been an atheist but he was still mostly a right winger. Stalin had more in common with the Republican Party.

Stalin was a conservative, but not a "right-winger".

He definitively was left-wing. Which is not to say that there wasn't a Left Opposition (that he purged, as well as the Right Opposition).

436 Gus  Thu, Nov 10, 2011 6:16:55am

re: #435 000G

Stalin was a conservative, but not a "right-winger".

He definitively was left-wing. Which is not to say that there wasn't a Left Opposition (that he purged, as well as the Right Opposition).

Hey I was partying when I said all that. Wasn't meant to be taken too seriously. Just letting it all hang out as it were. You know it's difficult to completely express oneself with just words. You had to have been there. ;)

437 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Nov 10, 2011 6:18:13am

re: #436 Gus 802

Hey I was partying when I said all that. Wasn't meant to be taken too seriously. Just letting it all hang out as it were. You know it's difficult to completely express oneself with just words. You had to have been there. ;)

;-)


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