Tom Waits on the Fallon Show: Raised Right Men

It takes a raised right man to keep a happy hen
Music • Views: 41,039

The new album by Tom Waits is a fantastic piece of work. Here he is on the Jimmy Fallon show, crooning “Raised Right Men” from Bad as Me. (He cut out a verse from this shortened TV version.)

There ain’t enough raised right men
it takes a raised right man to keep a happy hen
I said there ain’t enough raised right men

heavens to murkatroid
miners to coal
a good woman can make a diamond out of a measly lump of coal
and you need the patience of a glacier
if you can wait that long
open up his window and admit it when he’s wrong

there ain’t enough raised right men
it takes a raised right man to keep a happy hen

Mackey Debiasi
was a complicated man
he quarreled with his woman
and she quarreled with her man
his head was just too thick
so she knocked out a tooth
he’s that lonely man on the turnpike in the
toll takers booth

there ain’t enough raised right men

Gunplay Maxwell and
Flat Nose George
Ice Pick Ed Newcomb
on a slab in the morgue
Flat Nose looked at Gunplay
and they all looked at me
with a good woman’s love we
could have saved all three

and there ain’t enough raised right men
It takes a raised right man to keep a happy hen
there ain’t enough raised right men

Jump to bottom

362 comments
1 Big Joe  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 6:39:30pm

Heh, where did my handle come from?!

2 prairiefire  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 6:43:03pm

Amen.

3 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 6:44:22pm

After much hoo haw on the original report (and self satisfied pats on the back)

OCCUPY DNA MURDER LINK NOW THOUGHT TO BE LAB ERROR

Pitiful the rush to judgement, and to cheer like a football game. ALL OVER THE INTERNETS this a.m.

Really, this is where I support OWS, because the people against it have such an agenda to discredit it. Why?

4 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 6:45:26pm

Such a brand new, shiny, clean thread... and here am I, going to dirty it up:

Following up on my downstairs post linking to the Slate article which points out the political value to Romney for being booed by the NAACP, WND jumps on the front of the charge:

Romney faces boos at NAACP speech

with all the (intended audience) Stormfront wanna-bes joining in the comments:

Joe
Big city Blacks are clueless little chickens who come out of their chicken coop and pick up the seed the government throws them and then runs back inside clucking. These people are hopeless, and they don't want to work.
9 minutes ago

---

and so forth.

5 sattv4u2  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 6:50:09pm

Well well

Here's a blast from the past

I had forgotten all about him!!

[Link: tv.yahoo.com...]

Robert Blake to Piers Morgan: 'Nobody Tells Me I'm a Liar'

6 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 6:51:14pm

Waits should make a serious video out of "Hell Broke Luce" from this album. Very powerful song, to the point of being a little disturbing.

7 Big Joe  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 6:57:51pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Waits should make a serious video out of "Hell Broke Luce" from this album. Very powerful song, to the point of being a little disturbing.

[Embedded content]


Lyrics

8 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 6:59:22pm

re: #3 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

From the parent article:

Ellen S. Borakove, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner’s office, said, “We’ve excluded all medical examiner’s office personnel.” She added, “We are still actively investigating the match.”

One person familiar with the investigation said that the DNA came from a supervisor in the Police Department’s laboratory, which is also involved in such testing.

Looks like the OCME only attempted to run exclusions on its own personnel instead of including NYPD evidence handlers. That's one hell of a bureaucratic fuck up, 100% foreseeable and preventable. Also, somebody needs to teach this weirdo supervisor to stop rubbing his unwashed taint all over the evidence (or whatever the fuck it is he's doing), generally one doesn't leave testable amounts of DNA on objects simply by touching or holding them.

9 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 6:59:38pm

Furthering the idea that getting booed is part of the political strategy:

Romney Says It’s OK He Got Booed, Defends His NAACP Speech

Addressing a private fundraiser this evening, Mitt Romney made reference to his speech to the NAACP when he was booed several times by the crowd, telling supporters, “I don’t give different speeches to different audiences.”

“I gave the same same speech,” said Romney at the event, which was held at the Daly Mansion in Hamilton, Montana, and was open to a small group of reporters. “When I mentioned I am going to get rid of Obamacare they weren’t happy.”

The crowd in Houston earlier Wednesday held a sustained boo — for about 15 seconds — when Romney vowed to eliminate Obamacare, a program he called “expensive” and “non-essential.”

“That’s OK,” said Romney, of the response he received at the NAACP. “I want people to know what I stand for and if I don’t stand for what they want, go vote for someone else, that’s just fine.”

[...]

It was all planned.

10 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:06:59pm

There are few things Romney could have done (in public) that would have been more effective, in getting the atavists on his side, than getting booed by the NAACP.

11 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:08:43pm

re: #9 freetoken

Furthering the idea that getting booed is part of the political strategy:

Romney Says It’s OK He Got Booed, Defends His NAACP Speech

It was all planned.

Shh, don't tell anyone but:

Mitt Romney: I Have Secret Black Supporters

Mitt Romney told Fox News Wednesday that black leaders support him, but are afraid to say so publicly.

After his speech to the NAACP national convention Wednesday, Romney said he connected with black leaders in private and was assured that the loud and sustained booing he got for promising to repeal the health care reform law didn’t represent the feelings of all African American voters, even if they can’t say so in public.

12 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:09:45pm

re: #9 freetoken

Furthering the idea that getting booed is part of the political strategy:

Romney Says It’s OK He Got Booed, Defends His NAACP Speech

It was all planned.

Yep, looks like it. Romney is totally committed to winning the far right Republican base.

13 Big Joe  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:10:40pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Yep, looks like it. Romney is totally committed to winning the far right Republican base.

Free Republic hates him so much they are banning his vocal supporters.

14 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:10:52pm

re: #3 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

Really, this is where I support OWS, because the people against it have such an agenda to discredit it. Why?

Reactionary much?

15 nines09  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:11:07pm

Tom Waits has been plugged into the source forever. He is a National Treasure. Brought me to tears more than once and his songs are bare wires with sharp edges. They cut me. Just how do the Angels get to sleep when the Devil leaves his porch light on?

16 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:11:18pm

Tom Waits, right

and there ain’t enough raised right men

17 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:12:00pm

re: #8 goddamnedfrank

From the parent article:

Looks like the OCME only attempted to run exclusions on its own personnel instead of including NYPD evidence handlers. That's one hell of a bureaucratic fuck up, 100% foreseeable and preventable. Also, somebody needs to teach this weirdo supervisor to stop rubbing his unwashed taint all over the evidence (or whatever the fuck it is he's doing), generally one doesn't leave testable amounts of DNA on objects simply by touching or holding them.

And...how many people are in jail due to this I bet typical fuck up.

18 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:12:15pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Romney's political strategy to win the reactionary right's vote: The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

19 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:12:41pm

re: #9 freetoken

Furthering the idea that getting booed is part of the political strategy:

Romney Says It’s OK He Got Booed, Defends His NAACP Speech

It was all planned.

WHISTLE

20 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:13:23pm

re: #11 Kragar

Shh, don't tell anyone but:

Mitt Romney: I Have Secret Black Supporters

Slippery Mitt.

21 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:13:28pm

I expect Mitt to be stepping down Sunday, to make room for the Chosen One.

“God Wants Ron Paul to Be President” – Nebraska Republican Delegates Should Obey God

“God wants Ron Paul to be President. Paul is the only Christian still running who beat Obama in polls, but will Christians and pastors obey God?” says Pastor Steven Andrew, president of USA Christian Ministries.

“We must obey God and vote for Christians. Noah Webster used Exodus 18:21 for American voting. John Jay said “select and prefer Christians for [our] leaders” (Mark 12:30, Psalm 1, Psalm 33:12).

“Comparing Ron Paul, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama, we see Paul will cut the deficit $1 trillion in year one, but Obama and Romney would increase the deficit. Americans will have more jobs with Paul,” says the pastor.

“Christians follow Jesus. We aren’t right or left. The left isn’t following God. Obama says to leave living babies to die who survive botched abortions, covers Jesus’ name and cross at Georgetown, fights unjust wars that result in Muslims persecuting Christians, and mocks God and our Founding Fathers’ Christian laws,” he adds.

“The right isn’t following God with Mitt Romney. Jesus Christ is the second Person of the Godhead but, as a Mormon, Romney thinks: Jesus is a created being, the spirit brother of Lucifer; that men become Gods and that Christians are inferior people. Christians know Mormonism is Satanic,” he adds.

22 nines09  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:13:31pm

It was all a photo opp. Then Romney opened his yap.

23 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:14:23pm

re: #22 Some Assembly Required, Batteries Not Included,

It was all a photo opp. Then Romney opened his yap.

"The boos were just the right volume."

24 nines09  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:15:19pm

re: #23 Kragar

Perfect pitch.

25 jaunte  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:16:10pm


Reactions to Romney's NAACP speech

"I don't think he's familiar with how many poor people there are in this country..."

26 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:19:02pm

re: #25 jaunte


Reactions to Romney's NAACP speech

"I don't think he's familiar with how many poor people there are in this country..."

"But I never see any poor people at the Equestrian show or while I'm out on the lake. How big a problem can it be?"

27 Ojoe  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:19:07pm

Tonight's Towercam sunset; San Gabriel Mountains of California, Pacific time zone.

It is July 11, feast day of St. Benedict, patron saint of civil engineers.

Good night all.

28 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:20:31pm

re: #27 Ojoe

It is July 11, feast day of St. Benedict, patron saint of civil engineers.

I love his eggs recipe. Good work.

29 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:21:04pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

I love his eggs recipe. Good work.

haha

30 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:21:05pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

Much more militaristic, than his usual crooning. I like it.

31 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:21:53pm

re: #11 Kragar

Mitt Romney: I Have Secret Black Supporters

32 palomino  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:22:15pm

re: #3 Residence: Hopeandchangeistan 2012

After much hoo haw on the original report (and self satisfied pats on the back)

OCCUPY DNA MURDER LINK NOW THOUGHT TO BE LAB ERROR

Pitiful the rush to judgement, and to cheer like a football game. ALL OVER THE INTERNETS this a.m.

Really, this is where I support OWS, because the people against it have such an agenda to discredit it. Why?

Uh oh. You said OWS. It's Trout bait.

33 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:24:18pm

re: #31 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

I didn't need that image.

34 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:25:29pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Yep, looks like it. Romney is totally committed to winning the far right Republican base.

Rmoney's got no choice, because he'll get fuckall from blacks and other minorities.

35 jaunte  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:27:05pm

re: #34 SunshineSuperman

Angry Black Lady:

At some point, Romney also said that black folks would like him if we only understood him. Because that’s not condescending at all:
[Link: angryblackladychronicles.com...]

36 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:28:24pm

We'll never see what is in the magic chest at this rate!

37 darthstar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:29:02pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

I love his eggs recipe. Good work.

I went to the Waldorf Astoria in NYC recently. Birthplace of Eggs Benedict. Started when a wealthy patron came in for breakfast with a hangover and asked for eggs, bacon, hollandaise and an english muffin. The chef liked it so much he named the dish after the guy...Benedict.

38 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:29:56pm

re: #32 palomino

Uh oh. You said OWS. It's Trout bait.

Trout's already posted it, so don't worry.

39 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:31:30pm

re: #35 jaunte

Angry Black Lady:

a rich white dude who just gave a nervous speech in front of black folks so you can go back and tell other rich white dudes that you stood strong in a room full of black people

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:33:18pm

re: #11 Kragar

Shh, don't tell anyone but:

Mitt Romney: I Have Secret Black Supporters

I totally have a boyfriend who's on the football team, but he goes to another school, and you wouldn't know him.

41 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:37:18pm
42 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:39:22pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

I totally have a boyfriend who's on the football team, but he goes to another school, and you wouldn't know him.

"Yeah Mitt, we totally support you, we just can't tell anyone about it yet. Now tell us about how Romneycare is totally different from Obamacare. (Yeah, I know, this is awesome. I'm going to see if we can get him to swallow a goldfish later. Have the camera ready.) No, we're listening Mitt, you go ahead."

43 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:44:15pm
44 jaunte  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:44:50pm
"...But I hope people understand this, your friends who like Obamacare, you remind them of this, if they want more stuff from government tell them to go vote for the other guy-more free stuff. But don't forget nothing is really free. it has to paid for by people in the private sector creating goods and services, and if people want jobs more than they want free stuff from government, then they are going to have to get government to be smaller..."[Link: gretawire.foxnewsinsider.com...]

Defense contractors must be shaking in their boots.

45 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:47:09pm

re: #9 freetoken

Furthering the idea that getting booed is part of the political strategy:

Romney Says It’s OK He Got Booed, Defends His NAACP Speech

It was all planned.

But it was a bad plan. He already has all the rwnjobs that are sane enough to find the polling places. He's going to help energize the disappointed and disaffected in my crowd.

46 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:49:06pm

God, make this happen and I may start believing in you again.

Scientologists plan Hollywood TV studio

Scientologists plan Hollywood TV studio


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By Ronald Grover and Lisa Baertlein
July 11 | Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:41am IST
(Reuters) - The Church of Scientology, the religion whose followers include actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta, plans to start a religious broadcasting center to promote its teachings over TV, radio and the Internet.

The center, located near the church's West Coast headquarters in Hollywood, would occupy the nearly five-acre studio property the church bought last year from Los Angeles public TV station KCET for $42 million. The station would elevate the public profile of a religion that has mostly relied on pamphlets and books by its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, to proselytize for new members.

"The church plans to establish a central media hub for our growing world network of churches and to move into the production of religious television and radio broadcasting," said Karin Pouw, a spokeswoman for Church of Scientology International, in an email.

She said there is no timetable for when operations would begin.

Scientology TV could be similar to Pat Robertson's Christian Broadcasting Network or the Trinity Broadcast Network. Trinity creates Christian programming at a production center in Irving, Texas, and airs it on TV stations and cable channels, said Rick Ross, whose non-profit Rick A. Ross Institute in Trenton, New Jersey, maintains an online archive of data on cults and controversial movements.

47 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:51:48pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

I totally have a boyfriend who's on the football team, but he goes to another school, and you wouldn't know him.

And, he's HOT!
*waves*

48 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:52:27pm

re: #46 It's a cookbook!

God, make this happen and I may start believing in you again.

Scientologists plan Hollywood TV studio

Battleship. Earth.

49 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:53:21pm

re: #46 It's a cookbook!

She said there is no timetable for when operations would begin.

When hell freezes?

50 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:54:12pm

re: #48 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Battleship. Earth.

That was Battlefield Earth. You're getting your Hollywood bombs mixed up I think. Honest mistake.

51 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:54:24pm
52 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:54:51pm

re: #45 Decatur Deb

But it was a bad plan. He already has all the rwnjobs that are sane enough to find the polling places. He's going to help energize the disappointed and disaffected in my crowd.

At this point, it's not so much about winning over the nutjobs as it is keeping the ones who've been fooled into supporting him to keep that support going. Meanwhile, he's alienating every voter bloc that isn't white, straight, or male.

53 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:55:11pm

re: #49 Dancing along the light of day

When hell freezes?

Knowing them they're probably just trying to fleece their believers out of even more cash.

54 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:56:16pm

re: #52 Targetpractice

At this point, it's not so much about winning over the nutjobs as it is keeping the ones who've been fooled into supporting him to keep that support going. Meanwhile, he's alienating every voter bloc that isn't white, straight, or male.

55 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:57:09pm

re: #50 It's a cookbook!

That was Battlefield Earth. You're getting your Hollywood bombs mixed up I think. Honest mistake.

I promise you I did not watch it. Not even a trailer.

I could smell the stench of bomb just from the photo of Travolta with thingies up his nose.

56 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:57:51pm

re: #52 Targetpractice

At this point, it's not so much about winning over the nutjobs as it is keeping the ones who've been fooled into supporting him to keep that support going. Meanwhile, he's alienating every voter bloc that isn't white, straight, or male.

I'm old, white, straight, and male. His mojo isn't working.

57 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:58:09pm

re: #52 Targetpractice

Meanwhile, he's alienating every voter bloc that isn't white, straight, or male.

Hey, he's doing his fair share there too.

58 jaunte  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:58:39pm

re: #51 Varek Raith

[Link: maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com...]

That's a lot of red pinheads.

59 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:58:46pm

re: #56 Decatur Deb

I'm old, white, straight, and male. His mojo isn't working.

See, there's the old part, total disqualifier. Now off to the tar pits with you.

//

60 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:58:51pm

re: #55 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I promise you I did not watch it. Not even a trailer.

I could smell the stench of bomb just from the photo of Travolta with thingies up his nose.

I can say I actually sat thru the whole thing.

61 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:59:27pm

re: #60 Kragar

I can say I actually sat thru the whole thing.

It was one of those movies that makes the case for theater seats coming equipped with barf bags. Ugh.

62 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 7:59:43pm

re: #60 Kragar

I can say I actually sat thru the whole thing.

And then they released the restraints.

63 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:00:15pm

re: #60 Kragar

I can say I actually sat thru the whole thing.

Same...
:/

64 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:01:17pm

Leaked image of Kragar casually sitting through a viewing of Battlefield Earth.

[Link: t3.gstatic.com...]

65 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:01:17pm

re: #59 Targetpractice

See, there's the old part, total disqualifier. Now off to the tar pits with you.

//

Our movement, the NRA faction of the AARP, has a slogan:
"You can always take one with you."

Lookin' at you, Windup.

66 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:01:38pm

Nope, Watched it with some buddies and we ripped on it the whole time.

"So these Harriers have been sitting in a hangar for 1000 years, and they're still fully functional and gassed up? DRINK!"

67 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:03:27pm

re: #66 Kragar

Nope, Watched it with some buddies and we ripped on it the whole time.

"So these Harriers have been sitting in a hangar for 1000 years, and they're still fully functional and gassed up? DRINK!"

Full disclosure: I watched it too. On cable, at least. Eagerly awaiting The Master starring Phillip Seymour Hoffman, loosely based on Hubbard.

68 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:03:33pm

re: #66 Kragar

Nope, Watched it with some buddies and we ripped on it the whole time.

"So these Harriers have been sitting in a hangar for 1000 years, and they're still fully functional and gassed up? DRINK!"

Were your buddies made from a catcher's mitt and a gumball machine respectively?

/

69 prairiefire  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:04:20pm

I think NPR was enjoying replaying the audio from the NAACP convention today. The part where Romney got booed.

70 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:06:03pm

Megaforce has a higher rating on IMDB than Battlefield Earth

71 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:07:50pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

Were your buddies made from a catcher's mitt and a gumball machine respectively?

/

Lacrosse helmet, thank you very much.

A catcher's mitt? The nerve of some people.

72 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:08:19pm

re: #70 Kragar

Was that the one with the cars that had some kind of active camo going on?

73 jaunte  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:08:23pm

Yosemite webcam: [Link: www.yosemiteconservancy.org...]

74 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:08:32pm

re: #66 Kragar

Nope, Watched it with some buddies and we ripped on it the whole time.

"So these Harriers have been sitting in a hangar for 1000 years, and they're still fully functional and gassed up? DRINK!"

You mean like Lara Croft charging around through old ruins where everything is crumbling...except for the death traps?

75 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:09:36pm

re: #71 Kragar

Lacrosse helmet, thank you very much.

A catcher's mitt? The nerve of some people.

Never correct me when I'm making a mistake!

//

76 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:09:37pm

Battlefield Earth would have gotten a higher rating if Angelina Jolie had been in it.

Wearing short shorts, of course.

77 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:09:47pm

re: #66 Kragar

Nope, Watched it with some buddies and we ripped on it the whole time.

"So these Harriers have been sitting in a hangar for 1000 years, and they're still fully functional and gassed up? DRINK!"

NO.

78 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:10:33pm

re: #72 It's a cookbook!

Was that the one with the cars that had some kind of active camo going on?

They turned black at night.

79 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:11:24pm

re: #76 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Battlefield Earth would have gotten a higher rating if Angelina Jolie had been in it.

Wearing short shorts, of course.

Nah. They would have put her in the same crappy makeup they threw on Travolta and Forest Whitaker.

80 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:12:58pm

re: #79 It's a cookbook!

Nah. They would have put her in the same crappy makeup they threw on Travolta and Forest Whitaker.

I feel sorry for any director who cannot figure out what to do with Ms. Jolie.

81 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:14:33pm

re: #78 Kragar

They turned black at night.

I had to use Google to make sure you weren't fucking with me. You're in the clear.

82 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:14:43pm

re: #66 Kragar

Nope, Watched it with some buddies and we ripped on it the whole time.

"So these Harriers have been sitting in a hangar for 1000 years, and they're still fully functional and gassed up? DRINK!"

Kinda figured your BS-meter pegged when they found the Harriers in Fort Hood.

83 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:15:16pm

re: #80 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I feel sorry for any director who cannot figure out what to do with Ms. Jolie.

Geez, I never figured the dirtiest sentence on a thread to come out of your mouth...

84 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:16:16pm

re: #51 Varek Raith

[Link: maddowblog.msnbc.msn.com...]

You linked to MSNBC with CHARTS AND GRAPHS!!11ty

[Faints]

85 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:17:14pm

re: #82 Targetpractice

Kinda figured your BS-meter pegged when they found the Harriers in Fort Hood.

How did he figure out how to fly it? That movie is one incomprehensible blob of crap to me now.

86 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:17:34pm

re: #82 Targetpractice

Kinda figured your BS-meter pegged when they found the Harriers in Fort Hood.

The library filled with readable books after being a bombed out ruin for centuries broke it earlier.

87 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:18:31pm

re: #85 It's a cookbook!

How did he figure out how to fly it? That movie is one incomprehensible blob of crap to me now.

The had a flight simulator.

Seriously, the tribals spent a few hours each in a flight simulator and came out fighter pilots.

88 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:18:34pm

re: #86 Kragar

The library filled with readable books after being a bombed out ruin for centuries broke it earlier.

Well, maybe they were using Fallout physics...

/

89 palomino  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:19:03pm

re: #52 Targetpractice

At this point, it's not so much about winning over the nutjobs as it is keeping the ones who've been fooled into supporting him to keep that support going. Meanwhile, he's alienating every voter bloc that isn't white, straight, or male.

And sadly Mitt's still in decent position to win in Nov. He's managed to be bland enough to seem presidential compared to the imbeciles and lunatics campaigning against him in the primaries. And, with some help from the obstructionist GOP Congress, he can run against a generic bad economy.

But the reactionary angry slant you see in the gop is a result of this no longer being the "white Christian country" that many old white guys thought it was growing up. And of course there's a great deal of resentment against women who no longer know their place like they did back in the good old days.

90 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:19:22pm

re: #87 Kragar

The had a flight simulator.

Seriously, the tribals spent a few hours each in a flight simulator and came out fighter pilots.

Not just fighter pilots, but pilots with the training needed to tame the Harrier, an aircraft that has killed more than a handful of experienced pilots.

91 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:19:35pm

re: #83 It's a cookbook!

Geez, I never figured the dirtiest sentence on a thread to come out of your mouth...

Seriously, though, if you paid millions of dollars for her in the film, and then made her ugly...

Duh.

92 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:22:44pm
93 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:23:05pm

re: #87 Kragar

The had a flight simulator.

Seriously, the tribals spent a few hours each in a flight simulator and came out fighter pilots.

Oh.

94 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:23:24pm

Thank God a nuclear warhead a couple cavemen yanked out of a cruise missile was able to operate after a millennium, despite the fact they only took the detonator and not the fissionable material.

95 CarleeCork  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:24:29pm

re: #25 jaunte


Reactions to Romney's NAACP speech

"I don't think he's familiar with how many poor people there are in this country..."

Most people aren't aware.

96 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:24:37pm

All this Battlefield Earth reminiscing, I need to see something to make me feel better.

97 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:25:49pm

re: #94 Kragar

Thank God a nuclear warhead a couple cavemen yanked out of a cruise missile was able to operate after a millennium, despite the fact they only took the detonator and not the fissionable material.

And, of course, that all the materials were totally functional, despite 1000 years of radioactive decay.

98 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:27:59pm

re: #95 CarleeCork

Most people aren't aware.

That's not purely an accident. Wife is working with a minister who runs a homeless project. Our county is quite good at hiding them.

99 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:28:52pm
100 palomino  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:29:51pm

re: #95 CarleeCork

Most people aren't aware.

It's a lot easier to sleep at night if you just ignore the problem, or blame it on the poor themselves. This reaction by so many Americans suggests that we're not really as compassionate a nation as we love to loudly proclaim.

101 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:31:43pm

re: #99 Varek Raith

[Link: www.moviemistakes.com...]

The aliens are obsessed with gold and have sensors which can find a vein buried underground while flying overhead, yet miss the entire stockpile at Fort Knox for centuries.

102 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:32:00pm

re: #100 palomino

It's a lot easier to sleep at night if you just ignore the problem, or blame it on the poor themselves. This reaction by so many Americans suggests that we're not really as compassionate a nation as we love to loudly proclaim.

103 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:32:39pm

re: #101 Kragar

104 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:33:29pm

re: #101 Kragar

The aliens are obsessed with gold and have sensors which can find a vein buried underground while flying overhead, yet miss the entire stockpile at Fort Knox for centuries.

It's best not to think about it at all.

105 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:34:43pm

re: #104 Varek Raith

It's best not to think about it at all.

106 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:35:15pm

re: #103 Dancing along the light of day

Where did the comment go?

107 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:38:31pm

re: #106 Kragar

Where did the comment go?

Wormhole.

108 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:38:45pm

re: #106 Kragar

Where did the comment go?

What's said in comment 103 stays in comment 103.

109 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:38:59pm

Cone of Silence.

110 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:39:01pm
111 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:39:16pm

re: #108 Mostly sane, most of the time.

What's said in comment 103 stays in comment 103.

I'll wait around for 301 and catch it there.

112 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:39:18pm

re: #110 Gus

NO.

113 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:39:47pm

re: #112 Varek Raith

NO.

Dance.

114 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:41:34pm

re: #113 Gus

Dance.

Okay

115 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:41:48pm

Ah. Now I see. Based on a book by L. Ron Hubbard.

Drink!

116 jaunte  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:41:54pm

re: #101 Kragar

The aliens are obsessed with gold and have sensors which can find a vein buried underground while flying overhead, yet miss the entire stockpile at Fort Knox for centuries.

M. Night Shyamalan must have studied this movie to write his story of the aliens who can't stand water, so they ship out to another solar system to invade a water planet.

117 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:42:40pm

re: #116 jaunte

M. Night Shyamalan must have studied this movie to write his story of the aliens who can't stand water, so they ship out to another solar system to invade a water planet.

STOP IT

118 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:43:37pm

re: #116 jaunte

M. Night Shyamalan must have studied this movie to write his story of the aliens who can't stand water, so they ship out to another solar system to invade a water planet.

Yes, but the tragedy is that Shyamalan is CAPABLE of making great films.

However lousy Signs was, Sixth Sense is a classic.

119 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:43:45pm

re: #115 Gus

Ah. Now I see. Based on a book by L. Ron Hubbard.

Drink!

Yep. The evil aliens were called the Psychlos.

Hubbard had a passionate hatred for psychiatry.

No one ever accused him of being a subtle writer.

And by subtle I mean "good."

120 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:44:10pm

re: #118 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Yes, but the tragedy is that Shyamalan is CAPABLE of making great films.

However lousy Signs was, Sixth Sense is a classic.

I liked Unbreakable.

121 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:44:13pm

re: #117 Varek Raith

STOP IT

Quiiiiitttt it! Ma! Mikey won't stop hitting me! Quiiiittt it!

122 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:44:28pm

re: #120 Kragar

I liked Unbreakable.

Loved it. I thought it was great.

123 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:44:39pm

Nate Silver has been running his 2012 Presidential model for a month. Almost no change. That's behind some of the 'concern' coming out of the GOP cheerleader flaks.

[Link: fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com...]

124 Mocking Jay  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:45:07pm

re: #120 Kragar

I liked Unbreakable.

I loved Unbreakable. All downhill from there.

Until The Happening. So bad it's good frickin' amazing!

125 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:45:52pm

re: #116 jaunte

M. Night Shyamalan must have studied this movie to write his story of the aliens who can't stand water, so they ship out to another solar system to invade a water planet.

Or how about when Uwe Boll cast Tara Reid as a noted anthropologist.

126 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:46:23pm

re: #122 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Loved it. I thought it was great.

I liked the scene where he was lifting weights with his kid.

127 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:46:25pm
128 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:46:53pm

re: #125 Kragar

Or how about when Uwe Boll cast Tara Reid as a noted anthropologist.

*PEWPEWPEW*

129 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:47:43pm

re: #128 Varek Raith

*PEWPEWPEW*

Stallone as Judge Dredd...

130 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:49:02pm

re: #125 Kragar

Or how about when Uwe Boll cast Tara Reid as a noted anthropologist.

They must at least be able to FAKE intelligence.

The young woman I put the page up for with the 3 Wolf Moon shirt--I know her, and she's actually really smart as well as beautiful.

You can be both, but smart is more than putting on glasses.

131 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:50:12pm

Uwe Boll should be shot into space.
/...?

132 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:50:39pm

re: #131 Varek Raith

Uwe Boll should be shot into space.
/...?

Don't give him any ideas.

133 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:52:51pm

re: #132 Gus

Don't give him any ideas.

Why not???

134 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:54:04pm

In today's big news, Kim Kardashian is still in the running to be the world's most viewed woman in a bathing suite:

135 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:55:35pm

re: #106 Kragar

Where did the comment go?

Twas there in preview!

136 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:55:56pm

re: #134 freetoken

In today's big news, Kim Kardashian is still in the running to be the world's most viewed woman in a bathing suite:

[Embedded content]

Isn't she a little old for that? I don't mean the bathing suit thing. But taking pictures of herself and putting them up on the intertoobs.

137 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:57:41pm

re: #134 freetoken

And the prize would be?
No, don't answer that. I NEED those brain cells.

138 Targetpractice  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:58:04pm

re: #131 Varek Raith

Uwe Boll should be shot into space.
/...?

And forced to watch cheesy movies til his mind breaks?

139 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 8:58:10pm
140 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:01:02pm

re: #136 Gus

... But taking pictures of herself and putting them up on the intertoobs.

But, that is what life is all about.

Promoting oneself.

141 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:01:11pm
142 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:01:28pm

re: #140 freetoken

But, that is what life is all about.

Promoting oneself.

It is? I'm failing.

143 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:01:43pm

re: #141 Gus

Boeing 787 Farnborough 2012 (Wednesday)

[Embedded content]

Crazy ass bank angles here.

144 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:02:00pm

re: #136 Gus

re: #142 Mostly sane, most of the time.

It is? I'm failing.

Life in 2012 is not for the meek.

145 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:02:35pm

The Meek shall not inherit Twitter.

146 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:03:04pm

re: #138 Targetpractice

And forced to watch cheesy movies til his mind breaks?

I don't really care as long as he's millions of miles away from any movie making equipment.

147 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:03:16pm

re: #144 freetoken

re: #142 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Life in 2012 is not for the meek.

The people I gave birth to will happily explain that I am the dorkiest dork that ever was a dork.

148 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:03:29pm

re: #143 Gus

Crazy ass bank angles here.

But enough about Kim Kardashian.

149 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:04:31pm

re: #144 freetoken

re: #142 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Life in 2012 is not for the meek.

Talk show success.

150 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:05:36pm
151 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:07:18pm

The hypothesis on Mitt's true motivation for his speech is gathering steam:

Romney On NAACP Booing: If They Want More Free Stuff From The Government Vote Obama

There has been a lot of speculation today about Mitt Romney‘s motivation for giving a speech to the annual NAACP Convention, and trashing Obamacare in the process. Romney himself said he “expected” to be booed for it, and in remarks first reported on The Rachel Maddow Show tonight, he demonstrated why. According to a pool report from Romney’s Hamilton, Montana fundraiser, he brought up the booing, and told donors “if they (Obamacare supporters) want more stuff from government tell them to go vote for the other guy – more free stuff. But don’t forget nothing is really free.”

The quote is so tone-deaf, and such a naked appeal to the “welfare queen” brand of racial and class resentment, that it’s almost hard to believe it’s real. Here’s how Rachel Maddow reported it on her show Wednesday night: [...]

152 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:07:56pm
153 Interesting Times  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:08:04pm

re: #151 freetoken

154 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:08:19pm
155 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:08:40pm

Mongo like airplane.

[Dobro slide]

157 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:12:21pm
158 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:12:49pm
159 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:14:02pm

re: #158 Gus

[Embedded content]

Vegetarian.

160 prairiefire  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:14:10pm

Yo, comic con geeks! Post YouTube videos!

161 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:15:49pm

re: #159 Varek Raith

Vegetarian.

Hot dang that's one scene.

162 Varek Raith  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:16:39pm

re: #161 Gus

Hot dang that's one scene.

We need a JP.
Then we'll send creationists there.

163 CarleeCork  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:18:28pm

re: #100 palomino

It's a lot easier to sleep at night if you just ignore the problem, or blame it on the poor themselves. This reaction by so many Americans suggests that we're not really as compassionate a nation as we love to loudly proclaim.

I don't blame it on the poor or ignore the problem. I understand what's happening is intentional and paid for by the wealthy. Democracy depends on an informed electorate. The wealthy know this, and know they must control the infotainment to retain control.

I don't sleep well, I have five grandchildren.

165 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:27:01pm
166 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:29:22pm

F/A-18 Farnborough 2012 (Wednesday)

Watch closely. This is some nice flying.

167 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:31:08pm

Texas judge rules atmosphere, air to be protected like water, may aid climate change lawsuits

A Texas judge has ruled that the atmosphere and air must be protected for public use, just like water, which could help attorneys tasked with arguing climate change lawsuits designed to force states to cut emissions.

The written ruling, issued in a letter Monday by Texas District Court Judge Gisela Triana, shot down arguments by the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality that only water is a “public trust,” a doctrine that dates to the Roman Empire stating a government must protect certain resources — usually water, sometimes wildlife — for the common good.

[...]

TYRANTS IN BLACK ROBES!!

168 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:35:06pm

re: #167 freetoken

Texas judge rules atmosphere, air to be protected like water, may aid climate change lawsuits

TYRANTS IN BLACK ROBES!!

BUT GOD GAVE THEM TO US!
///

169 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:40:15pm

re: #167 freetoken

Texas judge rules atmosphere, air to be protected like water, may aid climate change lawsuits

TYRANTS IN BLACK ROBES!!

A true industrialist would welcome the challenge of climate change. But no. Instead we are stuck between two...

170 Kragar  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:42:29pm

re: #160 prairiefire

Yo, comic con geeks! Post YouTube videos!

OK

171 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 9:54:43pm

President signs Wage and Price control bill (includes rent control):

172 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 10:10:13pm

re: #171 freetoken

President signs Wage and Price control bill (includes rent control):

[Embedded content]

Communism has taken over the United States of America.

174 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 10:17:48pm

How to be a conservative in less that 4 words.

I hate everything.

Damn you kids. You Commies get off me lawn!!

175 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 10:18:16pm

Polonium!

176 Gus  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 10:23:20pm

The less there is of fear, the less there is of danger. And remember to buy Amoco gas.

177 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 10:38:48pm

Speaking of communists, here is Paul Robeson, from the 1932 Columbia release (on 78) with Victor Young and his Orchestra:

178 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 10:54:10pm

re: #177 freetoken

Such a voice

179 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 11:04:55pm

WOOT WOOT WOOT. THat is all

180 ozbloke  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 11:08:09pm

re: #177 freetoken

Speaking of communists, here is Paul Robeson, from the 1932 Columbia release (on 78) with Victor Young and his Orchestra:

[Embedded content]

Classic Freetoken thanks.

181 freetoken  Wed, Jul 11, 2012 11:29:03pm

re: #178 Dancing along the light of day

Such a voice

Speaking of voices, during WWI none other than Enrico Caruso sang a bit of patriotic propaganda:

182 researchok  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:03:10am

Morning, all

183 freetoken  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:07:08am

ACLU alleges Michigan school district violated students’ ‘right to learn to read’

In the first case of its kind, the American Civil Liberties Union is charging that the state of Michigan and a Detroit area school district have failed to adequately educate children, violating their “right to learn to read” under an obscure state law.

The ACLU class-action lawsuit, to be filed Thursday, says hundreds of students in the Highland Park School District are functionally illiterate.


“None of those adults charged with the care of these children . . . have done their jobs,” said Kary L. Moss, executive director of the ACLU of Michigan. “The Highland Park School District is among the lowest-performing districts in the nation, graduating class after class of children who are not literate. Our lawsuit . . . says that if education is to mean anything, it means that children have a right to learn to read.”


[...]

If you go to the PDF of the sample writings of the 14 year old it's pretty clear that they are way behind. Question is, how can cases like this be fixed?

184 researchok  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:11:02am

re: #177 freetoken

re: #181 freetoken

Our own wayback machine.

Nice.

185 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:12:38am

re: #181 freetoken

Speaking of voices, during WWI none other than Enrico Caruso sang a bit of patriotic propaganda:

[Embedded content]

One of the great voices of our generation, Chris Cornell covering Michael Jackson

186 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:21:55am

Stayed up late to put the finishing touches on my latest project, a Space Marine chapter champion. Its one of the more complex kitbashes I've attempted. The left arm alone, which is maybe a half inch long, is comprised of 15 separate pieces. I just set the ink wash and I'm letting it dry before I go back and high light the final details.

187 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:25:47am

re: #186 Kragar

Since we are the only nerds up, I have been painting Samurai figures, a project I have been putting off for ages. Now have around 250 figures near completion. Even the simplest foot soldier is much more complex than the fanciest Napoeonic figure.

188 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:29:39am

re: #187 Expand Your Ground

Since we are the only nerds up, I have been painting Samurai figures, a project I hve been putting off for ages. Now have around 250 figures near completion. Even the simplest foot soldier is much more complex than the fanciest Napoeonic figure.

Yeah, the Napoleonic era uniforms were big on solid color schemes, nice and easy to paint. I learned my lesson about infantry painting when I started Cadians. "Why don't I go with a mottled urban camouflage? How hard could it be?"

*shudder*

189 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:35:29am

What techniques are you using on the samurai?

190 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:44:48am

re: #189 Kragar

acrylic. Prime 'em, base coat, dark wash and then highlights with dry brush.

191 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 1:46:44am

re: #190 Expand Your Ground

acrylic. Prime 'em, base coat, dark wash and then highlights with dry brush.

Pretty much the same. Acrylic is so much easier to cleanup and work with.

192 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:04:50am

there is the pain in the butt of having to prime them with spray, but after that, it is nice to be able to sit down, work for a half hour or so and not worry about cleaning up smelly solvents.

193 freetoken  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:15:59am

Our America for July 11 comes to us from the sunny state of Florida:

House District 17 candidates present agendas

[...]
The three Republican candidates for House District 17 on Wednesday seemed to have taken some of their talking points from their party’s platform [...]

Possibly the biggest stunner of the night was agreement by all three that creationism should be taught along with evolution in St. Johns County science classes, not just in church or at home.

Renuart said, “Evolution is still a theory. It should be taught as a theory, not as a fact. Creationism, divine intervention — a lot of people share this belief.”

Kendall agreed with that statement.

“Evolution standards are being thrust on our students in science class,” she said. “Academic freedom allows our students to question that science has it right.”

Davis said, “The school should present both ideas.”

No one in the auditorium challenged or commented on those statements, which equated “scientific creationism,” essentially religious dogma, to empirical science.

[...]

194 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:20:12am

re: #193 freetoken

These people do not understand what a scientific theory is or what it means.

Neither do they understand that creationism, in whatever for it is presented, can never be a valid scientific theory because it cannot be objectively tested.

195 freetoken  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:55:17am

There seems to be a trend:

San Bernardino 3rd California city to seek bankruptcy

Californian cities were built with the delusion that housing booms always go on, and housing prices always go up.

And now, the reality of the universe is being revealed to them.

196 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:56:30am

re: #195 freetoken

I understand why some people can be lulled into this sort of thinking, but that was the very thinking that was behind the 2008 crash...and seemed to "catch bankers by surprise"

197 freetoken  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 2:59:53am

re: #196 Expand Your Ground

Ah, but the bankers claimed, at a well publicized Congressional hearing, that crashes happen every 5 to 7 years, and that they weren't surprised.

The surprise was on the customers marks.

198 freetoken  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:19:02am

For example, yesterday we learned:

U.S. billionaire revealed as buyer of ‘The Scream’

U.S. billionaire Leon Black is the mystery buyer who paid a record $120 million for Edvard Munch’s masterpiece The Scream at Sotheby’s in May, the most-expensive work of art ever sold at auction, TheWall Street Journal reported yesterday.

[...]

Leon Black made his money selling junk bonds, raiding companies, etc. A true modern "capitalist".

Now, he's a known art lover and possibly in his will he'll donate his vast art fortune to a museum, all well and good. But to think that somehow the very rich in this country can't have their taxes raised because it would destroy the the American economy falls flat when such examples of obsession (and yes, paying $120 million for a single painting qualifies as an obsession) clearly show that the disposable income available to the very rich is vast.

199 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 3:20:04am

re: #198 freetoken

It will all trickle down to us if we just lower taxes, abolish unions and loosen safety & environmental regulations...

/

200 freetoken  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:14:52am
201 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:22:06am

Bryan is derping early this morning:

202 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:27:05am

But that is exactly what is expected of Mitt in his choice of running mate: a staunch, male, mainstream Protestant social conservative.

203 freetoken  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:36:50am

re: #202 Expand Your Ground

But that is exactly what is expected of Mitt in his choice of running mate: a staunch, male, mainstream Protestant social conservative.

And thus, the smart money is on the former governor of Minnesota.

And I don't mean Jesse Ventura.

204 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:38:52am

re: #202 Expand Your Ground

But that is exactly what is expected of Mitt in his choice of running mate: a staunch, male, mainstream Protestant social conservative.

I'll be surprised (but not shocked) if he does pick a middle aged white male

That stated, his instinct to protect his "Mormon problem" amongst other Christian sects must be strong

205 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:41:53am

re: #204 sattv4u2

I'll be surprised (but not shocked) if he does pick a middle aged white male

That stated, his instinct to protect his "Mormon problem" amongst other Christian sects must be strong

Anyone think that Mitt could "Pikachu"? (Eric Cantor)

206 freetoken  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 4:54:01am

re: #205 Learned Mother of Zion

He loves him some Mitt.

207 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:11:47am

Mixed bag from John Crudele today, Libor scandal continues, he praises Chevrolet, and he bitch slaps Chevy.[Link: www.nypost.com...]
Don't overheat your car, not good. Aluminum heads and blocks can't take a beating like a cast steel block.

208 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:22:48am

re: #205 Learned Mother of Zion

Anyone think that Mitt could "Pikachu"? (Eric Cantor)

Out of the question. McCain is said to have wanted Joe Liebermann, but tht would have cost him a wide swath of the Religious Right.

209 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:24:30am

re: #208 Expand Your Ground

Out of the question. McCain is said to have wanted Joe Liebermann, but tht would have cost him a wide swath of the Religious Right.

Joe Lieberman is not a Republican. He was formerly a Dem, but still too liberal for the GOP.

210 freetoken  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:29:13am

re: #207 Tommy's cone of shame

Don't overheat your car, not good. Aluminum heads and blocks can't take a beating like a cast steel block.

We've been hearing that for 30 years.

Time to do away with the internal combustion engine.

211 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:29:16am

re: #209 Learned Mother of Zion

Joe Lieberman is not a Republican. He was formerly a Dem, but still too liberal for the GOP.

Not really (imho)

The right looks at him favorably for bucking liberal orthodoxy on Iraq and the WOT in general, and also for campaigning with McCain in 08

212 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:30:02am

Little Joe would've been a great choice for the general election and could've drawn a lot of middle-of-the-road support, but the GOP would not have him for various reasons.

213 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:32:18am

re: #211 sattv4u2

Not really (imho)

The right looks at him favorably for bucking liberal orthodoxy on Iraq and the WOT in general, and also for campaigning with McCain in 08

Then why were so many flipping out when Lieberman was brought up as a name for McCain in 2008? They may respect him but I doubt they want him as VP either.

214 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:35:12am

re: #151 freetoken

The hypothesis on Mitt's true motivation for his speech is gathering steam:

Romney On NAACP Booing: If They Want More Free Stuff From The Government Vote Obama

The "nothing really is free" comment is rich coming from that party.

215 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:36:48am

re: #213 HappyWarrior

Then why were so many flipping out when Lieberman was brought up as a name for McCain in 2008? They may respect him but I doubt they want him as VP either.

"many" were

But even more weren't

Like any running mate (regardless of party) there are going to be a faction of people that are displeased with it

Do you think the dems were 100% united behind Biden? I seem to recall a huge push for Hillary (DREAM TICKET, I believe they were calling it)

Many on the right weren't thrilled that Bush chose Cheney ("recycled ,,we need fresh and new,,, a woman or a minority")

216 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:42:52am

Romney cannot choose another Mormon, that is right out. He needs someone who is mainstream Protestant, one who can present himself as being solidly socially conservative.

217 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:45:50am

re: #215 sattv4u2

"many" were

But even more weren't

Like any running mate (regardless of party) there are going to be a faction of people that are displeased with it

Do you think the dems were 100% united behind Biden? I seem to recall a huge push for Hillary (DREAM TICKET, I believe they were calling it)

Many on the right weren't thrilled that Bush chose Cheney ("recycled ,,we need fresh and new,,, a woman or a minority")

Fair points but the preemptive reaction to the very thought that McCain was considering Lieberman was more against than those who were in favor. I remember reading about people threatening not to vote. I don't doubt that there were some in favor of Lieberman but they were judging by the reaction a minority compared to those who wanted McCain to choose someone else. I understand why. Many on the left had a similar reaction when Kerry was rumored to have considered McCain himself in 2004. It's natural not to want someone from another party as the number 2 especially if that someone only four years prior had ran for president in that party.

218 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:47:33am

re: #216 Expand Your Ground

Romney cannot choose another Mormon, that is right out. He needs someone who is mainstream Protestant, one who can present himself as being solidly socially conservative.

He does have a conundrum on his hands

As I stated he needs someone to protect his "Mormon Problem" flank from other Christian sects, while at the same time he needs to appease minorities and females

If Rubio were a female he would be almost perfect
/ (somewhat)

219 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:48:27am

As far as I recall, McCain was threatened with a religious right third-party candidate unless he showed more "resolve" on socon issues.

That ruled out Liebermann and made him very open to someone like Sarah Palin, who was ideologically perfect, just a train wreck in nearly other aspect...

220 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:49:07am

re: #216 Expand Your Ground

Romney cannot choose another Mormon, that is right out. He needs someone who is mainstream Protestant, one who can present himself as being solidly socially conservative.

Would a Catholic be seen as acceptable? All the big time social conservatives that are being vetted are Catholic as I recall. He is in a tough spot though and I think the pick will be someone with a solid socially conservative background given that Mitt's wavering on social issues is why he struggled with the social conservatives in the primaries.

221 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:49:21am

re: #217 HappyWarrior

Yes, but there was also the appeal (choosing Lieberman) of "sticking it in the eye of the Dems" by choosing him!

Sort of like dating your mortal enemies ex-girl/boy friend

222 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:51:05am

Is it possible that Mitt could choose for VP one of the other candidates who ran against him in the primaries? (Rick Perry, Santorum, Newt?) Ron Paul is right out, he would never accept a #2 slot.

223 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:51:28am

Of almost equal interest, what of the speculation that Biden will be replaced on the ticket (he'll fall on the sword stating "medical issues")

224 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:52:34am

re: #222 Learned Mother of Zion

Is it possible that Mitt could choose for VP one of the other candidates who ran against him in the primaries? (Rick Perry, Santorum, Newt?) Ron Paul is right out, he would never accept a #2 slot.

Too much bad blood between Perry/ Romney and Newt/ Romney imho

(but then again there was an ocean of bad blood between Kennedy and Johnson, so you never know)

225 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:53:20am

re: #222 Learned Mother of Zion

Is it possible that Mitt could choose for VP one of the other candidates who ran against him in the primaries? (Rick Perry, Santorum, Newt?) Ron Paul is right out, he would never accept a #2 slot.

Haven't heard about any of them being vetted.

226 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 5:57:37am

A Catholic might do, especially one with a strong pro-life, anti-contraception background. That is just the sort of job-creation message the GOP needs to get motivated...

227 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:00:49am

re: #226 Expand Your Ground

A Catholic might do, especially one with a strong pro-life, anti-contraception background. That is just the sort of job-creation message the GOP needs to get motivated...

Jindal then. I read an article about Jindal being strongly pushed by Romney's conservative advisers. I think if Rubio had more experience in the Senate, he'd be my bet but the fact remains that he's only been in office since last year and I would think they're desperate to avoid another Palin.

228 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:06:26am

re: #227 HappyWarrior

Jindal then. I read an article about Jindal being strongly pushed by Romney's conservative advisers. I think if Rubio had more experience in the Senate, he'd be my bet but the fact remains that he's only been in office since last year.

Didn't dissuade the dems from taking Obama in 08!
Rubio was in the Florida house of reps for 9 years, the last two of which he was speaker

229 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:11:29am

re: #228 sattv4u2

Didn't dissuade the dems from taking Obama in 08!
Rubio was in the Florida house of reps for 9 years, the last two of which he was speaker

Obama had been in the Senate since 2005 not 2007. Plus, these aren't Republican primary voters but rather Romney and his advisers. Obama like Rubio had experience in his state legislature though was never in a position of leadership. Just saying, I think they're going to want someone with a strong track record to bolster Romney's conservative creds. Jindal was in the House for a few terms before he became governor so he has both legislative and executive experience, which in my observation of Romney seems to be something he values. Plus Re: Obama, he like him or not is one of the better campaigners out there. A senator with similar experience but not the campaign gravitas would have struggled in 2008 to beat Hilliary.

230 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:15:01am

re: #229 HappyWarrior

though was never in a position of leadership.

Speaker of the Florida house for two years! I think that qualifies as "leadership"

231 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:17:01am

re: #230 sattv4u2


though was never in a position of leadership.

Speaker of the Florida house for two years! I think that qualifies as "leadership"

Obama was never in a position of leadership is what I said. I knew Rubio was Speaker of the House.

232 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:22:26am

Anyhow I'm of the thought that experience helps but the individual matters more. James Buchanan had the perfect resume in what you want out of a leader: Member of the House/Senate, various Ambassadorships, and Secretary of State which at that time was the springboard that had delivered Jefferson, Monroe, and Quincy Adams to the presidency. Now contrast that with Lincoln who I think served a little in his state legislature but had one term as a member of the US House during the Mexican American War. Buchanan is remembered as perhaps the worst president in history and Lincoln well we know his legacy.

233 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:25:59am

re: #231 HappyWarrior

Obama was never in a position of leadership is what I said. I knew Rubio was Speaker of the House.

Sorry, when you stated "Obama like Rubio had experience in his state legislature though was never in a position of leadership" I thought you meant both

234 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:29:43am

re: #223 sattv4u2

Of almost equal interest, what of the speculation that Biden will be replaced on the ticket (he'll fall on the sword stating "medical issues")

Too late--already got the bumper stickers.

235 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:29:45am

re: #233 sattv4u2

Sorry, when you stated "Obama like Rubio had experience in his state legislature though was never in a position of leadership" I thought you meant both

It's cool. I should have made that point more clear

236 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:33:01am

re: #235 HappyWarrior

It's cool. I should have made that point more clear

n/p

Was probably me

At the tail end of a 12 hour overnight shift, and I didn't get my usual power nap before heading in last night

237 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:34:19am

re: #234 Decatur Deb

Too late--already got the bumper stickers.

LOL

SOMEONE GET A SHARPIE ,, STAT!!!

238 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:36:45am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. The Penn State report is out, (full report here) and it appears that the university is in trouble. They concealed all kinds of critical information on a repeated basis, and held Spanier, Schultz, Curry, and Paterno responsible for ongoing failures to protect against Sandusky's child abuse, essentially empowering Sandusky to continue abusing children.

239 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:39:09am

re: #238 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. The Penn State report is out, (full report here) and it appears that the university is in trouble. They concealed all kinds of critical information on a repeated basis, and held Spanier, Schultz, Curry, and Paterno responsible for ongoing failures to protect against Sandusky's child abuse, essentially empowering Sandusky to continue abusing children.

Wait, you mean JoePa was in on the whole cover-up? He cared more about his reputation than he did enforcing the law?

Say it ain't so!

///^nth

240 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:50:00am

re: #239 Targetpractice

Paterno's family is pushing back, noting that emails show that he was not comfortable with some of the actions taken, but those emails also show that Paterno did nothing to protect the kids once he learned of abuse allegations.

Silence = assent to the abuse.

Paterno could have canned Sandusky at any point once allegations of abuse were made (especially when multiple allegations were made), but never did.

Spanier failed in his duties as president when he failed to notify the board of allegations of abuse in 1998 and 2001. Likewise, the Board failed in its obligations by not pressing for info about those allegations, and inquiring about university matters, as well as holding officials accountable.

Protecting the university's reputation was the key driver in the actions of those involved - ignoring just how bad the school's reputation might be damaged as a result of ignoring the Sandusky abuse for years on end.

241 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:52:43am

and on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons

242 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:58:33am

re: #240 lawhawk

I know a few Penn State alums, and there seems to be a fair amount of them in South Jersey/Philly. I've seen Tea Baggers less devoted to Reagan than these folk are to Paterno. You just can't have a discussion about Paterno unless you exonerate him of all blame in this tragedy.

243 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:02:49am
244 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:03:50am
245 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:05:22am

re: #242 Mattand

I know a few Penn State alums, and there seems to be a fair amount of them in South Jersey/Philly. I've seen Tea Baggers less devoted to Reagan than these folk are to Paterno. You just can't have a discussion about Paterno unless you exonerate him of all blame in this tragedy.

I mean yes, he did enable years of child abuse. But let's not be so blind as to forget that he also coached college football.

246 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:09:16am

re: #244 Gus

[Embedded content]

"You can't blame Romney for that, he wasn't in charge of Bain."

"Uh, yes he was, here's the documents to prove it."

"Well, he says he wasn't in charge, so that's all that matters."

247 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:11:04am

re: #246 Targetpractice

"You can't blame Romney for that, he wasn't in charge of Bain."

"Uh, yes he was, here's the documents to prove it."

"Well, he says he wasn't in charge, so that's all that matters."

Yep. So all this time when he was using the excuse that he had already left Bain was a lie. Tack on 3 years to his tenure.

248 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:12:11am

Bain monkey seems to be growing. Not good news for Mitt.

249 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:12:51am

re: #242 Mattand

There's an almost ruthless devotion to Paterno, and the allegations and facts and circumstances of the abuse case Paterno as someone who not only covered up the abuse to protect the football program, but who regularly overruled school officials on discipline of his players and others in the athletic department. He created a fiefdom of power separate and above those of everyone else in the school.

And the irony is that his "protection of the athletic program" could (and should) mean the end of that program, if the NCAA decides to take up the matter and disciplining the football program.

250 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:13:04am

re: #248 HappyWarrior

It reminds us just what "running the country like a successful business" really means to him.

251 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:13:37am

re: #248 HappyWarrior

Bain monkey seems to be growing. Not good news for Mitt.

Not when the polls show that ads concerning his time at Bain are helping Obama take the lead in swing states.

252 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:13:56am

re: #250 Expand Your Ground

It reminds us just what "running the country like a successful business" really means to him.

Yep, and voters in swing rust belt states like Ohio, Pennsylvania, and others aren't going to like that.

253 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:16:56am

It's morning.

I haven't payed (paid) attention to the world since Monday. Did anything earth-shattering happen. (figuratively speaking)

and how are you?

254 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:17:15am

re: #248 HappyWarrior

Bain monkey seems to be growing. Not good news for Mitt.

It should be interesting to see what his defense team will conjure up today. Perhaps they'll blow it off as a "moonbat, communist inspired hit piece by the Mother Jones-MSNBC-DailyKos-Industrial Complex."

//

255 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:17:31am

Jobless claims drop to lowest level in four years. That due, in part, to the fact that automakers have not gone with their usual summer shutdown, instead opting to run second shifts because demand for vehicles has picked up domestically.

However, Europe is still in the doldrums, and that's weighing down the markets.

256 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:18:55am

re: #248 HappyWarrior

Bain monkey seems to be growing. Not good news for Mitt.

Yeah, the public opinion of big business right now isn't high. Especially when their execs get rewarded for screwing up with big bonuses instead of losing their jobs and being brought up on charges.

And, now, one of them wants to be elected to the Oval Office?

/right

257 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:19:01am

re: #253 ggt

It's morning.

I haven't payed (paid) attention to the world since Monday. Did anything earth-shattering happen. (figuratively speaking)

and how are you?

Romney appeared before the NAACP, gave a stock speech, got booed repeatedly, then went to a fundraiser the same night to boast that the booers were "free-loaders" who should just vote for Obama.

And I'm still in the process of waking up.

258 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:19:51am

re: #257 Targetpractice

Romney appeared before the NAACP, gave a stock speech, got booed repeatedly, then went to a fundraiser the same night to boast that the booers were "free-loaders" who should just vote for Obama.

And I'm still in the process of waking up.

Yeah they "just want free stuff". What an arrogant ass.

259 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:20:11am

re: #257 Targetpractice

Romney appeared before the NAACP, gave a stock speech, got booed repeatedly, then went to a fundraiser the same night to boast that the booers were "free-loaders" who should just vote for Obama.

And I'm still in the process of waking up.

I saw the "free loader" report. Not sure but isn't that post hoc?

260 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:21:43am

re: #257 Targetpractice

Romney appeared before the NAACP, gave a stock speech, got booed repeatedly, then went to a fundraiser the same night to boast that the booers were "free-loaders" who should just vote for Obama.

And I'm still in the process of waking up.

But, I thought the NAACP was a racist organization and they didn't count?

So, it's ok.

gah

261 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:22:03am

aaah, gotta take Brat Puppy for training.

bbl

262 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:22:15am

re: #256 ggt

Yeah, the public opinion of big business right now isn't high. Especially when their execs get rewarded for screwing up with big bonuses instead of losing their jobs and being brought up on charges.

And, now, one of them wants to be elected to the Oval Office?

/right

Precisely. Plus, I think many voters see a double standard when Romney talks tough on China but evidence shows Bain played a role in moving jobs to China. If he had a Huntsman like approach to China, this wouldn't be a big deal but because Mitt likes to act tough and huff & puff it rings hollow.

263 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:24:05am

re: #260 ggt

But, I thought the NAACP was a racist organization and they didn't count?

So, it's ok.

gah

That's pretty much all the response I've been hearing from the wingnuts, something along the lines of "So what if he got booed? The NAACP's just a bunch of racists anyway!"

264 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:24:09am

re: #258 HappyWarrior

Yeah they "just want free stuff". What an arrogant ass.

This is an argument advanced on restricting voting rights for "freeloaders", they will always just vote for a government that gives them more free stuff.

265 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:26:47am

re: #264 Expand Your Ground

This is an argument advanced on restricting voting rights for "freeloaders", they will always just vote for a government that gives them more free stuff.

Yeah you see it said about younger voters all the time. They also call us socialists.

266 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:27:05am

Uh oh! The New York Times agrees with teh Daily Kos blogger dude that "made his own charts!!"

The Road to More Jobs
Published: July 11, 2012

How different would conditions be today economically and politically if unemployment were 7 percent instead of its current 8.2 percent? For one thing, some two million unemployed workers would have jobs, and the rate of economic growth would be comfortably above 2 percent, instead of below that pace. This scenario could have been possible if federal aid to states had been bolstered, saving hundreds of thousands of public-sector jobs.

Mr. Obama can make a convincing case that his policies — especially the stimulus and auto industry rescue — helped cushioned the effects of the recession he inherited, which pushed the jobless rate from an already elevated 7.8 percent in January 2009 to 10 percent by October 2009. It has come down, more or less, steadily since then. But it is still higher than when he took office — a point that Mitt Romney and Congressional Republicans have seized upon as evidence of failed policies.

Actually, it was the Republicans’ relentless opposition to constructive policies that has kept unemployment high, from their resistance to the 2009 stimulus to their blockage of Mr. Obama’s proposed $450 billion jobs bill in late 2011. Federal aid to states was a mainstay of both of those efforts. As the stimulus ended and further aid was delayed and denied, the effect on state budgets — and on jobs — has been catastrophic.

Continues.

267 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:28:48am

re: #247 Gus

Yep. So all this time when he was using the excuse that he had already left Bain was a lie. Tack on 3 years to his tenure.

It's old news and I doubt this is going to change any of the fact checker's ratings.
The Obama campaign’s suspect claim about Romney’s role in store closings

The problem is that Romney did not legally extricate himself from Bain Capital until shortly before his Olympic tenure ended. (A 2002 Boston Globe article said he retained a key financial interest until August of 2001.) So a 2002 statement he filed with the Massachusetts State Ethics Commission on his financial interests lists ownership of various Bain entities, some of which appear to intersect with the funds that invested in KB Toys.

The document says that Romney is “a passive, limited partner [with] no management capacity” in many of these funds, and so it appears he certainly profited from the KB Toys transaction. But the controversial payout took place in 2002, after he formally left Bain.

So the 2003 tax filing would have been for the 2002 fiscal year. This is nothing we already didn't know.

268 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:29:37am

re: #267 Killgore Trout

It's old news and I doubt this is going to change any of the fact checker's ratings.
The Obama campaign’s suspect claim about Romney’s role in store closings

So the 2003 tax filing would have been for the 2002 fiscal year. This is nothing we already didn't know.

Thanks Mr. Rove.

269 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:31:53am

So Romney falls back on the old "passive, blind and without management capacity" defense. Just what we need to hear to restore our faith in his abilities...

270 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:33:33am

re: #269 Expand Your Ground

So Romney falls back on the old "passive, blind and without management capacity" defense. Just what we need to hear to restore our faith in his abilities...

Which of course runs counter to his claims of job creating glory. IOW, he uses his experience with Bain in a highly passive-aggressive style. One moment he's a capitalist superman and the next moment he's "a passive, limited partner [with] no management capacity." Which is it?

271 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:42:08am

re: #270 Gus

Which of course runs counter to his claims of job creating glory. IOW, he uses his experience with Bain in a highly passive-aggressive style. One moment he's a capitalist superman and the next moment he's "a passive, limited partner [with] no management capacity." Which is it?

Both. He's Schrodinger's Candidate.

272 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:46:45am

re: #269 Expand Your Ground

So Romney falls back on the old "passive, blind and without management capacity" defense. Just what we need to hear to restore our faith in his abilities...

I don't think Mitt has weighed in on this "new bombshell" document yet but the fact checkers have already seen them and quoted them in their debunking. I assume TPM and motherjones already know this, it took me under a minute to figure this out. They are just repackaging old and previously debunked lies.

273 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:49:31am

re: #272 Killgore Trout

It is never about the facts, it is about the image that this news creates. Bain Capital is being held up as an image of predatory, job-destroying capitalism and Mitt Romney as one of its champions.

274 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:49:36am

...and I know the outsourcing thing is the latest partisan pie fight but outsourcing is just an economic reality in the modern global economy. I don't think either candidate is going to seriously pursue a protectionist/isolationist economic agenda so it's pretty much a fight over populist rhetoric.

275 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:51:32am

If you'd like a real world perspective on outsourcing....
Who's the real 'outsourcer in chief'? Why Obama, Romney both shoulder blame.

The trend of outsourcing US jobs predates either President Obama or Mitt Romney, but both have contributed to it in different ways, according to one economist.

276 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:51:36am

Bullshit.

277 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:53:00am

Romney stayed longer at Bain
Firm’s 2002 filings identify him as CEO, though he said he left in 1999

Government documents filed by Mitt Romney and Bain Capital say Romney remained chief executive and chairman of the firm three years beyond the date he said he ceded control, even creating five new investment partnerships during that time.

Romney has said he left Bain in 1999 to lead the winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, ending his role in the company. But public Securities and Exchange Commission documents filed later by Bain Capital state he remained the firm’s “sole stockholder, chairman of the board, chief executive officer, and president.”

Also, a Massachusetts financial disclosure form Romney filed in 2003 states that he still owned 100 percent of Bain Capital in 2002. And Romney’s state financial disclosure forms indicate he earned at least $100,000 as a Bain “executive” in 2001 and 2002, separate from investment earnings.

The timing of Romney’s departure from Bain is a key point of contention because he has said his resignation in February 1999 meant he was not responsible for Bain Capital companies that went bankrupt or laid off workers after that date.

Continue reading at the Boston Globe.

278 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:54:42am

re: #273 Expand Your Ground

It is never about the facts, it is about the image that this news creates. Bain Capital is being held up as an image of predatory, job-destroying capitalism and Mitt Romney as one of its champions.

True. It's about fooling the rubes into voting one way or the other and factual accuracy doesn't count for much. I'm cool with that but it's not my goal to be the biggest rube and promote easily debunked lies to advance my personal political agenda. I'll leave that to other people.

279 Gus  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:55:15am

Think I'll go do something productive.

280 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:56:49am

re: #279 Gus

Think I'll go do something productive.

I tried that, then realized that I suck at it, so I've been busying myself with planning planetary conquest.

/

281 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:57:23am

Outsourcing is a reality but voters in parts of the country that have lost jobs to it don't want to hear about a prospective president who may have benefited from them losing their jobs. That's the problem Romney has. It's one thing arguably to support policies that result in outsourcing, it's another to be part of a company that benefits from it. I'm no protectionist but I understand why people don't like outsourcing.

282 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:58:03am

re: #278 Killgore Trout

True. It's about fooling the rubes into voting one way or the other and factual accuracy doesn't count for much. I'm cool with that but it's not my goal to be the biggest rube and promote easily debunked lies to advance my personal political agenda. I'll leave that to other people.

Dude, it was a couple of weeks ago that you were breathlessly parrotting Romney campaign press releases as THE TRUTH.

Spare us the self-righteousness.

283 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 7:59:24am

re: #281 HappyWarrior

Outsourcing is a reality but voters in parts of the country that have lost jobs to it don't want to hear about a prospective president who may have benefited from them losing their jobs. That's the problem Romney has. It's one thing arguably to support policies that result in outsourcing, it's another to be part of a company that benefits from it. I'm no protectionist but I understand why people don't like outsourcing.

I agree, it's a dirty word and a political hot potato. The claims and accusations can be politically effective regardless of truth or economic reality.

284 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:01:20am

re: #283 Killgore Trout

I agree, it's a dirty word and a political hot potato. The claims and accusations can be politically effective regardless of truth or economic reality.

What does "regardless of truth" mean?

Are you saying that Romney hasn't benefitted personally from outsourcing?

If so, what is your basis for that claim?

And do you want me to go and dig up your comments that turned out to have been sourced from Romney campaign press releases?

285 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:02:27am

re: #282 iossarian

Dude, it was a couple of weeks ago that you were breathlessly parrotting Romney campaign press releases as THE TRUTH.

Spare us the self-righteousness.

That's not true. I was using the WaPo factchecker. My mistake was checking the article just for the company names, I failed to notice the difference in the date ranges being discussed. When the fact checker clarified that the distinguishing factor was the date ranges I acknowledged my error.

286 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:07:18am

re: #285 Killgore Trout

That's not true. I was using the WaPo factchecker. My mistake was checking the article just for the company names, I failed to notice the difference in the date ranges being discussed. When the fact checker clarified that the distinguishing factor was the date ranges I acknowledged my error.

The fact is that you recycled a Romney campaign talking point. Whether that was due to negligence or partisanship is irrelevant - you're not in any position to lecture people on promoting their agenda by playing fast and loose with the facts.

287 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:08:15am

It does look like Bain set KB Toys up for failure, and Romney did profit from it. It may not be the same as personally setting the company on fire, but it hardly puts Romney in the clear.

288 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:08:52am

Update to yesterday's EPIC FAIL:

289 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:11:36am

re: #283 Killgore Trout

I agree, it's a dirty word and a political hot potato. The claims and accusations can be politically effective regardless of truth or economic reality.

Well to people who have been hurt by it, it's more than a dirty word, it's a reality. You have to understand that in many of these industrial towns that the jobs go from generation to generation. When I took economics, I read an article by an economist who proposed training workers who had lost their jobs due to outsourcing in new fields. I liked that idea. Still do. As I said, I'm not a protectionist but free traders need to realize the human cost of labor lost.

290 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:12:32am

re: #289 HappyWarrior

Free traders don't care because it's rarely their jobs that go overseas.

291 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:13:39am

re: #289 HappyWarrior

I'm not a protectionist but free traders need to realize the human cost of labor lost.

This could be a real part of the discourse: do we want an economy that looks on labor merely as another expense to be minimized at any and all costs, or are we going to build a system to consider the human coefficient of labor?

Pity that it won't be and the winner will come down to the one most successful at labelling and name-calling...

292 wrenchwench  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:14:55am

re: #290 Mattand

Free traders don't care because it's rarely their jobs that go overseas.

When their jobs go overseas, they go with 'em, and get a nice chalet or something.

293 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:17:34am

We are supposed to benefit from the cheap consumer products. And, of course, our ability to purchase more of them on the salaries we earn from our minimum-wage jobs selling them at the Wal-Mart...

294 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:18:32am

re: #291 Expand Your Ground

This could be a real part of the discourse: do we want an economy that looks on labor merely as another expense to be minimized at any and all costs, or are we going to build a system to consider the human coefficient of labor?

Pity that it won't be and the winner will come down to the one most successful at labelling and name-calling...

Have you read The World is Flat?

What Friedman means by "flat" is "connected": the lowering of trade and political barriers and the exponential technical advances of the digital revolution have made it possible to do business, or almost anything else, instantaneously with billions of other people across the planet. This in itself should not be news to anyone. But the news that Friedman has to deliver is that just when we stopped paying attention to these developments--when the dot-com bust turned interest away from the business and technology pages and when 9/11 and the Iraq War turned all eyes toward the Middle East--is when they actually began to accelerate. Globalization 3.0, as he calls it, is driven not by major corporations or giant trade organizations like the World Bank, but by individuals: desktop freelancers and innovative startups all over the world (but especially in India and China) who can compete--and win--not just for low-wage manufacturing and information labor but, increasingly, for the highest-end research and design work as well. (He doesn't forget the "mutant supply chains" like Al-Qaeda that let the small act big in more destructive ways.) Friedman tells his eye-opening story with the catchy slogans and globe-hopping anecdotes that readers of his earlier books and his New York Times columns will know well, and also with a stern sort of optimism. He wants to tell you how exciting this new world is, but he also wants you to know you're going to be trampled if you don't keep up with it. His book is an excellent place to begin. -

He makes an excellent case for free trade and he's not a Paulian fundamentalist. Good book.

295 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:23:28am

re: #293 Expand Your Ground

We are supposed to benefit from the cheap consumer products. And, of course, our ability to purchase more of them on the salaries we earn from our minimum-wage jobs selling them at the Wal-Mart...

...and that's where I acknowledge my own hypocrisy. I think our consumer culture is insane, destructive and probably unsustainable. I personally don't participate in it but if everybody followed my model our economy would collapse. I haven't seen many good or realistic alternatives. The best idea I've seen recently came from the AdBuster's guy (whose name I forget). He proposed that the constant need for economic growth isn't necessary and that it's possible for economies to function on a "no-growth" model. I don't know how realistic the idea is but I found it interesting.

296 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:25:10am

re: #294 Killgore Trout

Have you read The World is Flat?

He makes an excellent case for free trade and he's not a Paulian fundamentalist. Good book.

I remember Clinton recommending the book when I saw him interviewed not long after its release. Anyhow, I like free trade, I also like giving workers protections especially in third world countries where there are no or little protections. So, I'm not like Buchanan or Ralph Nader on trade issues. I personally think opening up trade with the Chinese was a good thing for both parties involved so I'm not opposed to outsourcing but as pointed out, the human labor factor needs to be examined. It's ironic since Capitalism is often championed over Communism because it theoretically values the individual. Problem to me is it seems that many large corps now undervalue the individual in labor and capital.

297 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:31:42am

If we are competing with other nations based on labor costs, then that can be a good thing: it motivates us to be more efficient.

But if we are letting them compete based on laxer safety or environmental regulations, then we are doing nobody a favor: neither the industries we are undercutting or the residents of foreign countries whose health is suffering.

298 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:32:30am

On another economics topic, I think it's not only right but also smart for companies to pay and treat their employees well. I read a study about companies that pay their employees better not just cash but also benefits tend to be more productive and profitable.

299 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:32:48am

like the way the automatic censor-sensor blotted out my initial misspelling of "counries" without the "o"...

300 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:35:58am

Fischer: Jesus' Teaching is 'Virtually the Foundation of the Second Amendment'

And Jesus did say, "Thou shalt have my weapons whenst thou pry them from my cold, dead hands."

301 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:40:25am

Rep. Tom Reed's Racist Friends Ridicule His Opponent's Asian Ancestry

Reed’s radio buddies caused trouble for him on Friday when they repeatedly ridiculed the Asian ancestry of Reed’s opponent Nate Shinagawa, a Democratic county legislator and hospital administrator from Ithaca. Shinagawa is a third-generation Japanese America whose grandfather was interned in California during World War II, only to enlist in the Marines upon release.

But that stuff doesn’t matter to WYSL host Bill Nojay and owner Bob Savage. They think Shinagawa has a funny name and must not be from around these parts. Here’s what Nojay, Savage, and a producer had to say about Shinagawa last Friday:

Nojay: Now you should be impressed that I know how to pronounce Shinagawa. Shinagawa ready to face Reed. He’s the guy who won the Democrat primary. He hails from the People’s Republic.
Producer: He’s gonna lose, just because of his name.
Nojay: Now that’s not a particularly nice thing to say.
Savage (in a stereotypical, derogatory Asian voice): Xenophobic. Xenophobic.

302 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:41:15am

The World is Flat

It's a bit long but worth watching if you have the time.

303 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:41:23am

re: #300 Kragar

Fischer: Jesus' Teaching is 'Virtually the Foundation of the Second Amendment'

And Jesus did say, "Thou shalt have my weapons whenst thou pry them from my cold, dead hands."

This is an as bigger epic fail as David Barton saying John Knox or was it Calvin were more important to the formation of American values than Thomas Jefferson. I mean if Fischer wants to say our culture helped lay the foundation for it, fine by me but saying that Jesus Christ's teachings, written over a thousand years before the first gun was invented then he's downright delusional but we knew that already.

304 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:43:12am

re: #297 Expand Your Ground

If we are competing with other nations based on labor costs, then that can be a good thing: it motivates us to be more efficient.

But if we are letting them compete based on laxer safety or environmental regulations, then we are doing nobody a favor: neither the industries we are undercutting or the residents of foreign countries whose health is suffering.

Yeah, that's the other half to the "economic reality" of outsourcing, namely that we're outsourcing to the lowest bidder in every respect, whether it be environmental regulation, worker safety, civil rights, or so forth. The more realistic look at it is we've outsourced our jobs to whichever slave nation offers the biggest profit for the smallest input.

305 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:45:08am

re: #304 Targetpractice

Yeah, that's the other half to the "economic reality" of outsourcing, namely that we're outsourcing to the lowest bidder in every respect, whether it be environmental regulation, worker safety, civil rights, or so forth. The more realistic look at it is we've outsourced our jobs to whichever slave nation offers the biggest profit for the smallest input.

I think about this every so often when I fire up my Apple equipment or put on a pair of sneakers.

306 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:46:35am

Henry David Thoreau: 12 quotes on his birthday
My favorite....
6. Morality

“Do not be too moral. You may cheat yourself out of much life so. Aim above morality. Be not simply good, be good for something.”

307 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:48:08am

re: #297 Expand Your Ground

If we are competing with other nations based on labor costs, then that can be a good thing: it motivates us to be more efficient.

But if we are letting them compete based on laxer safety or environmental regulations, then we are doing nobody a favor: neither the industries we are undercutting or the residents of foreign countries whose health is suffering.

And those environments don't just stay there in their country. We all live in this 'closed' system called Earth. As someone said about smoking sections in restaurants, "It's like having a peeing section in a pool". We all are affected by everything that happens in some way or another. Like our US industries SO2 polluting the clouds so acid rain falls on Canada (to note, Canada also contributes but we produce at least 6 timers more SO2 pollution than they).

308 ShaunP  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:48:30am

re: #300 Kragar

Fischer: Jesus' Teaching is 'Virtually the Foundation of the Second Amendment'

And Jesus did say, "Thou shalt have my weapons whenst thou pry them from my cold, dead hands."

This makes my head hurt...

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Matthew 26:52

309 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:50:46am

re: #307 RayFerd

And those environments don't just stay there in their country. We all live in this 'closed' system called Earth. As someone said about smoking sections in restaurants, "It's like having a peeing section in a pool". We all are affected by everything that happens in some way or another. Like our US industries SO2 polluting the clouds so acid rain falls on Canada (to note, Canada also contributes but we produce at least 6 timers more SO2 pollution than they).

True, it the people abroad who suffer first and worse, but we are basically just encouraging it worldwide.

I am for import tariffs based on a simple system: how much would the product cost to produce at US standards of work and environmental safety?

That difference should be factored in the cost, it would incentivize other contries to clean up their act to escape the tariff.

310 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:51:32am

re: #306 Killgore Trout

Henry David Thoreau: 12 quotes on his birthday
My favorite...
6. Morality

Sensitivity Moment

When I lived in Massachusetts I used to love going to Waldens Pond with a Thoreau or Emerson book and just sit and read and listen to the solitude

311 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:57:37am

re: #308 ShaunP

This makes my head hurt...

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
Matthew 26:52

So Romney is just like Jesus; they're both flip-floppers.

312 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:57:52am

re: #310 sattv4u2

Sensitivity Moment

When I lived in Massachusetts I used to love going to Waldens Pond with a Thoreau or Emerson book and just sit and read and listen to the solitude

I made a pilgrimage to Walden in my college years. Thoreau was very influential on me. I really should reread Walden again. It's been a while.

313 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:00:09am

re: #303 HappyWarrior

This is an as bigger epic fail as David Barton saying John Knox or was it Calvin were more important to the formation of American values than Thomas Jefferson. I mean if Fischer wants to say our culture helped lay the foundation for it, fine by me but saying that Jesus Christ's teachings, written over a thousand years before the first gun was invented then he's downright delusional but we knew that already.

Well, you have to "turn the other cheek" if you are going to open sight down the barrel.

314 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:01:33am

Wapo Fact Checker on the new bombshell document...
Mitt Romney and his departure from Bain

We have looked at this issue before, back in January, and thought we had settled it.

But now the Boston Globe has raised the issue again. The story seems to hinge on a quote from a former Securities and Exchange Commission member, which would have more credibility if the Globe had disclosed she was a regular contributor to Democrats. (Interestingly, “The Real Romney,” a book on the former Massachusetts governor, by Boston Globe reporters, states clearly that he left Bain when he went to run the Olympics and details the turmoil that ensued when he suddenly quit, nearly breaking up the partnership)

We’re considering whether to once again take a deeper look at this, though it really feels like Groundhog Day again. There appears to be some confusion about how partnerships are structured and managed, or what SEC documents mean. (Just because you are listed as an owner of shares does not mean you have a managerial role.)

To accept some of the claims, one would have to believe that Romney, with the advice of his lawyers, lied on government documents and committed a criminal offense. Moreover, you would have to assume he willingly gave up his share to a few years of retirement earnings — potentially worth millions of dollars — so he could say his retirement started in 1999.

For interested readers, below is a summary of what we, FactCheck.org and Fortune magazine have concluded.

Nothing new.

315 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:03:07am

re: #314 Killgore Trout

Wapo Fact Checker on the new bombshell document...
Mitt Romney and his departure from Bain

Nothing new.

Won't change any minds, however

316 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:07:25am

re: #278 Killgore Trout

True. It's about fooling the rubes into voting one way or the other and factual accuracy doesn't count for much. I'm cool with that but it's not my goal to be the biggest rube and promote easily debunked lies to advance my personal political agenda. I'll leave that to other people.

Ah. So when you called the women who got maced in NYC "marxist trust-funders" and said that they deserved it for being violent, that was based on some heavy research.

Weird, because it turned out to just be an easily-debunked lie.

317 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:11:18am

Regardless of the truth of the latest accusations, Romney's time at Bain seems to be much like his time as governor: He takes credit for any successes but can't show what he did to make them possible, while mumbling excuses for why he can't be held responsible for any failures/losses.

318 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:11:54am

Tapping into a couple of themes of the current thread: A tanker truck crashed in Nigeria, and then a bunch of people came running to scoop up the fuel. The truck then exploded - killing 91 people. That's the latest in a long string of similar disasters.

A 1998 pipeline explosion killed more than 1,000 people (debate over whether it was caused by negligence of the pipeline company or that scavengers intentionally ruptured the pipeline. Other pipeline explosions have killed hundreds - often caused by scavengers trying to tap the lines for personal use or for reselling to others.

Nigeria lacks sufficient infrastructure, safety protocols, and regularly experiences oil shortages (causing the scavengers to do their thing).

And one of Nigeria's largest oil export partners? The US.

319 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:12:59am

re: #317 Targetpractice

Regardless of the truth of the latest accusations, Romney's time at Bain seems to be much like his time as governor: He takes credit for any successes but can't show what he did to make them possible, while mumbling excuses for why he can't be held responsible for any failures/losses.

Can you imagine what the right would be saying had Obama received a six-figure salary for years from an organization that made its money by shipping US jobs overseas?

And what their reaction would be if he defended himself by claiming that he was uninvolved in the day-to-day operations of that organization?

Give me a fucking break.

320 Targetpractice  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:15:51am

re: #319 iossarian

Can you imagine what the right would be saying had Obama received a six-figure salary for years from an organization that made its money by shipping US jobs overseas?

And what their reaction would be if he defended himself by claiming that he was uninvolved in the day-to-day operations of that organization?

Give me a fucking break.

Particularly if he was going "Yes, my leadership created real successes, but any failures were somebody else's fault. I might have had my name on the paper, but I wasn't in charge, so I take no responsibility for the fuck-ups of others."

321 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:16:24am

re: #318 lawhawk

Tapping into a couple of themes of the current thread: A tanker truck crashed in Nigeria, and then a bunch of people came running to scoop up the fuel. The truck then exploded - killing 91 people. That's the latest in a long string of similar disasters.

A 1998 pipeline explosion killed more than 1,000 people (debate over whether it was caused by negligence of the pipeline company or that scavengers intentionally ruptured the pipeline. Other pipeline explosions have killed hundreds - often caused by scavengers trying to tap the lines for personal use or for reselling to others.

Nigeria lacks sufficient infrastructure, safety protocols, and regularly experiences oil shortages (causing the scavengers to do their thing).

And one of Nigeria's largest oil export partners? The US.

Obviously they just need to loosen restrictions and regulations on the free market and all those problems will go away.
/

322 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:17:19am

re: #316 Obdicut

Ah. So when you called the women who got maced in NYC "marxist trust-funders" and said that they deserved it for being violent, that was based on some heavy research.

Weird, because it turned out to just be an easily-debunked lie.

There was also the whole "Talking Points Memo is not the same thing as ThinkProgress" debacle.

SOME PEOPLE LIKE TO THROW AROUND WILD UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS TO FURTHER THEIR PARTISAN GOALS BUT I AM ABOVE SUCH PETTY SQUABBLES

323 Kragar  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:20:22am

Romney On NAACP Booers: They’re Freeloaders

Mitt Romney has found a new spin for the resounding chorus of boos he triggered at the NAACP on Wednesday. At a fundraiser in Montana that night, Romney boasted about the boos to a very different crowd, saying: “If they want more stuff from the government, tell them to go vote for the other guy–more free stuff. But don’t forget nothing is really free.”

Given Romney’s fraught history with the organization–Mother Jones reported yesterday on his antagonistic relationship with the Boston NAACP while governor–invoking the “welfare queen” stereotype against NAACP members who support Obamacare is tone deaf, if not a deliberate attempt to stoke conservative resentment against so-called government freeloaders.

324 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:23:37am

Bologna and cheese on whole wheat with spicy brown mustard

because that's just how I roll!!

325 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:25:38am

re: #324 sattv4u2
hold the mustard and put catsup on mine.

326 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:25:46am

Ugh. I just had a visit from the cops. That distinctive "cop knock" on the door really gets the heart pumping. It seems the hit and run accident out front from a few weeks ago was a couple gang bangers. One a whom got out of the car and posed as a passerby/rubbernecker. I really hope I don't end up having to testify in court.

327 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:26:07am

re: #324 sattv4u2

Bologna and cheese on whole wheat with spicy brown mustard

because that's just how I roll!!

Elitist!

328 AK-47%  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:32:16am

Real Americans use real American mustard: French's or Heinz.

329 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:32:20am

re: #323 Kragar

Romney On NAACP Booers: They’re Freeloaders

As I said earlier, thte whole nothing really is free coming from the Republican party is awfully rich considering they want to repeal ACA but keep its popular parts yet wiil oppose any tax that may help pay for it.. Oh, and Mitt's a condescending asshole. I hope Obama or Biden call him out on this pathetic dog whistle soon because that's exactly what it is, it's a shout out to the morons in the Republican party who believe people vote Democratic because they want free stuff. So sick of that crap and that it's being spread by a guy like Romney who embodies the word privilege it's laughable.

330 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:32:46am

re: #327 Killgore Trout

Elitist!

Nahh,,, I'm just lucky!

331 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:33:41am

re: #325 Tommy's cone of shame

hold the mustard and put catsup on mine.

GAK!!!

Mind you. I LOVE catsup, but on bologna and cheese,,, nuh uh!

332 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:36:24am

Good morning afternoon lizards!

333 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:36:41am

re: #319 iossarian

Can you imagine what the right would be saying had Obama received a six-figure salary for years from an organization that made its money by shipping US jobs overseas?

And what their reaction would be if he defended himself by claiming that he was uninvolved in the day-to-day operations of that organization?

Give me a fucking break.

Am I missing something, or do those filings really say that Romney owned 100% of Bain stock?

334 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:37:01am

re: #331 sattv4u2

GAK!!!

Mind you. I LOVE catsup, but on bologna and cheese,,, nuh uh!

I love it on scrambled eggs.

335 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:37:18am

NBC, Microsoft Getting Online Divorce

NBC executives have grown frustrated at not having sole control of the MSNBC website, which does original reporting as well as aggregating content from the AP, Reuters, New York Times and elsewhere. At the same time, as the MSNBC channel has forged a separate identity as the liberal home of Rachel Maddow, Chris Matthews, Ed Schultz and others, the company has worried about the brand confusion caused by its straight-news site bearing the same name. And the cable channel has lacked a site solely devoted to pushing its personalities.

Two years ago, NBC and Microsoft held serious negotiations about changing the name of MSNBC.com to alleviate that confusion. Once Microsoft withdraws, NBC may create a second site with the MSNBC name simply to promote the cable channel’s offerings.

Smart move. Confusion between the hyper partisan MSNBC and the regular mainstream NBC reporting is problematic.

336 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:37:30am

re: #333 Obdicut

Am I missing something, or do those filings really say that Romney owned 100% of Bain stock?

There seems to be a difference between Bain Capital Inc. and Bain LLC (or something). I think one is a kind of holding company.

337 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:37:37am

re: #332 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning afternoon lizards!

Mandate Fine Tax for tardiness

338 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:38:19am

re: #334 NJDhockeyfan

I love it on scrambled eggs.

I prefer not to hear about your sexual position preferences

339 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:38:22am

re: #337 sattv4u2

Mandate Fine Tax for tardiness

Penalty: No fruit cup

340 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:38:39am

re: #337 sattv4u2

Mandate Fine Tax for tardiness

I couldn't help it. I had to actually do some work this morning.

341 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:39:41am

re: #340 NJDhockeyfan

I couldn't help it. I had to actually do some work this morning.

feh

I just got home from work

I hear my pillow gently calling my name

342 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:39:59am

re: #341 sattv4u2

feh

I just got home from work

I hear my pillow gently calling my name

Why, you may ask, did I buy a talking pillow

343 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:41:42am

My mom is on the way down from NJ. We are all headed to TN on Saturday morning :)

344 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:44:06am

re: #343 NJDhockeyfan

My mom is on the way down from NJ. We are all headed to TN on Saturday morning :)

Just an FYI

Elvis has left the building

345 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:44:37am

re: #339 Killgore Trout

Penalty: No fruit cup

Ah, the good ole days!

346 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:51:21am

What a great idea!
//

Hamid Karzai says Taliban chief Mullah Omar can run for Afghan presidency

Afghan President Hamid Karzai called on Thursday on Taliban supreme leader Mullah Omar to give up fighting his US-backed government in return for the chance to run for president of the war-torn nation.

Maybe he can get Ayman al-Zawahiri to be his VP.

347 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:54:12am

When Black Metal's Anti-Religious Message Gets Turned on Islam

An underground scene of bands in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East are finding new use for heavy music's blasphemous potential.

"Burn the Quran! Burn the fucking Quran!" a woman screams hoarsely, over and over again. Tinny guitars course beneath her howls, sawing away at any semblance of melody. Sampled snippets of fundamentalist Islamic rhetoric filter through, and muffled voices exhort their unseen audience to praise Allah and to destroy the infidel.
...
The overall effect is chilling, which is, of course, exactly its creator's intent. Her name is Anahita, and she is the 28-years-old voice and vitriol behind Janaza, Iraq's very first female-fronted, black-metal band. Allow that notion—Iraq's very first female-fronted, black-metal band—to sink in for a moment. Her first recording, Burn the Pages of Quran, boasts five distorted, primitive tracks that altogether run just shy of an unlucky 13 minutes. She, along with a handful of other acts hailing from the Middle East, are repurposing black metal's historically anti-Christian ferocity to rail against Islam. In doing so, these bands are serving up another example of how art and dissent can intersect in a region where dissent can sometimes have deadly consequences.

348 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:55:09am

re: #346 NJDhockeyfan

What a great idea!
//

Hamid Karzai says Taliban chief Mullah Omar can run for Afghan presidency

Maybe he can get Ayman al-Zawahiri to be his VP.

Given that Queen Elizabeth II recently shook Martin McGuinness's hand, I would say that such developments might lead to increased peace and stability.

349 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 9:59:07am

re: #346 NJDhockeyfan

Well, it would make it easier to know where they are for the inevitable UAV airstrike. /

350 Obdicut  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:00:03am

re: #348 iossarian

Given that Queen Elizabeth II recently shook Martin McGuinness's hand, I would say that such developments might lead to increased peace and stability.

I never thought I'd see that day. When I was a kid, the Troubles seemed unresolveable, eternal, only worsening over time. Absolutely amazing that we've come this far since then.

351 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:00:54am

re: #348 iossarian

Given that Queen Elizabeth II recently shook Martin McGuinness's hand, I would say that such developments might lead to increased peace and stability.

I dunno. There hasn't been the equiv of a Good Friday Agreement in Afghanistan which helped the peace efforts in NI tremendously. Plus McGuinness was shaking hands with the queen rather than someone like Ian Paisley.

352 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:03:55am
353 sattv4u2  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:04:17am

re: #349 lawhawk

Well, it would make it easier to know where they are for the inevitable UAV airstrike. /

On Omar,,, or Karzai!?!?!

/

354 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:07:51am

re: #351 HappyWarrior

I dunno. There hasn't been the equiv of a Good Friday Agreement in Afghanistan which helped the peace efforts in NI tremendously. Plus McGuinness was shaking hands with the queen rather than someone like Ian Paisley.

So pursue a Good Friday agreement with the Taliban then. Split off a reasonable negotiating group and leave the rest to self-destruct.

Obviously it isn't an easy process. Those who followed the Northern Ireland process will know that it takes a long time and there are many setbacks to be overcome.

But McGuinness ran the IRA, who assassinated the Queen's cousin. So I don't think it's an unreasonable comparison. And he is involved in a political process that includes Ian Paisley and his ilk.

355 Mattand  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:11:07am

re: #352 NJDhockeyfan

Jordanian Cleric Riyadh al-Bustanji: I Brought My Daughter to Gaza to Learn Jihad and Martyrdom-Seeking

I wonder what the homework assignments are like?

They're da bomb.

356 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:14:47am

re: #355 Mattand

They're da bomb.

This field trip was cancelled by the IDF.

IAF Aircraft Thwart Rocket Fire Attack from the Gaza Strip

14:45 GMT, July 12, 2012 A short while ago, Israeli Air Force (IAF) aircraft targeted a terrorist in the northern Gaza Strip. The terrorist was concluding preparations to fire a rocket at Israel. A direct hit was confirmed.

Earlier today, Israel Defense Forces (IDF) artillery forces and IAF aircraft targeted a Hamas terrorist squad in the Gaza Strip. The squad was in position to launch an anti-tank missile at IDF soldiers performing routine activity near the security fence. A hit was confirmed.

357 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:16:04am

re: #354 iossarian

So pursue a Good Friday agreement with the Taliban then. Split off a reasonable negotiating group and leave the rest to self-destruct.

Obviously it isn't an easy process. Those who followed the Northern Ireland process will know that it takes a long time and there are many setbacks to be overcome.

But McGuinness ran the IRA, who assassinated the Queen's cousin. So I don't think it's an unreasonable comparison. And he is involved in a political process that includes Ian Paisley and his ilk.

Reasonable points. I think you need something to set a Good Friday like agreement in motion. What that is I haven't a clue. You need reasonable men on both sides. Take, John Hume on the republican and David Trimble on the unionist side in the NI case. You need guys like that. I don't know if there is anyone like that in the Taliban. Plus, I think Afghanistan is a different situation from Northern Ireland.in that the Taliban unlike Sinn Fein and the IRA had power in the country. It's a tough situation and I hope peace can be achieved.

358 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:19:14am

FWIW I read some of an article yesterday that had the Serbian president who is a huge Serbian nationalist willing to compromise with the Kosovars so maybe there's some hope yet. I think the situation and history of the Balkans is more closer to Iraq than Afghanistan though so that's another story.

359 iossarian  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:21:35am

re: #357 HappyWarrior

Reasonable points. I think you need something to set a Good Friday like agreement in motion. What that is I haven't a clue. You need reasonable men on both sides. Take, John Hume on the republican and David Trimble on the unionist side in the NI case. You need guys like that. I don't know if there is anyone like that in the Taliban. Plus, I think Afghanistan is a different situation from Northern Ireland.in that the Taliban unlike Sinn Fein and the IRA had power in the country. It's a tough situation and I hope peace can be achieved.

I think the situation is similar but different :)

Similar in that in both cases there were areas of the country that were de facto, if not de jure, under the control of the non-governmental "terrorist" organization (the IRA and Taliban, respectively).

I would also have to say that there are virtually always reasonable people at some level in an organization. But it's true that we don't know, in the case of the Taliban, to what extent those people hold any power or influence. You can't just judge it by the leaders' public rhetoric though, since maintaining power often requires adopting a virulently anti-government stance. Would the Taliban leadership accept a power-sharing situation? It's at least possible.

I do agree that structurally and economically speaking, Afghanistan has far further to go than Northern Ireland ever did.

360 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:23:02am

re: #357 HappyWarrior

Not to mention a nasty tendency for those who might be willing to negotiate with or for the Taliban being assassinated for holding those views by more militant groups of Taliban and/or AQ affiliated groups. Further complicating matters is that Afghanistan still holds to a largely warlord based govt - Kabul doesn't really hold sway over large parts of the country and there's the incessant influence coming in via Pakistan's frontier provinces.

361 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:24:16am

The UN is going to 'endow an academic chair' at a Gaza terrorism-linked school. Israel is not amused.

Israeli fury at UNESCO academic chair in Gaza

Israeli officials have reacted with anger to UNESCO's decision to endow an academic chair at the Islamic University of Gaza (IUG). This, claim the Israelis, is an "endorsement of terrorism".

"The chair," said one Israeli official, "is seen as a stamp of approval from the international body, implying recognition of the university's importance as an academic institution." The Israelis regard the IUG as a "terrorist organisation" as many of those who resist Israel's occupation of Palestine are graduates.

The Israeli ambassador to UNESCO has held intense discussions with the organisation and announced that he is going to submit a formal letter of protest.

362 HappyWarrior  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:28:21am

re: #360 lawhawk

Not to mention a nasty tendency for those who might be willing to negotiate with or for the Taliban being assassinated for holding those views by more militant groups of Taliban and/or AQ affiliated groups. Further complicating matters is that Afghanistan still holds to a largely warlord based govt - Kabul doesn't really hold sway over large parts of the country and there's the incessant influence coming in via Pakistan's frontier provinces.

I think they need a unifying leader who can help modernize the country. Who that is and what he stands for is beyond me. It's a tricky region. I think the best comp since you brought up warlords would be China from the fall of the Qing Dynasty to the Japanese-Chinese war or some may even say Mao's consolidating of power in 1949.


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