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240 comments
1 tigger2005  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:24:05am

Really? I just saw on the news that Obama was waiting for a face-to-face with McChrystal before making any decision.

2 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:24:29am

Let the spin begin.

3 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:25:01am

So lets just skip all the vitriol and hurling of invectives and cut to the chase.

Who is getting the job now?

4 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:25:15am

re: #2 Fozzie Bear

Let the spin begin.

The wingnuts are already rallying behind him.

5 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:25:25am

re: #1 tigger2005

Really? I just saw on the news that Obama was waiting for a face-to-face with McChrystal before making any decision.

They already met and rumor was going around earlier that Obama was already in the hunt for a new general to put forward for confirmation.

Another general bets the farm against the House and loses it all.

6 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:25:56am

"Gripes go up the chain of comand, not down!"

-Tom Hanks as Captain Miller in "Saving Private Ryan"

7 webevintage  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:26:03am

OMG!!111!!! He threw him under the bus!!111!!!
No one can criticize THE ONE.....
Just who the hell does Obambi think he is!
/

Just thought I would get that out there since I'm sure that is going to become the narrative.

8 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:26:24am

Petraeus replaces McChrystal

9 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:26:29am

re: #7 webevintage

Yep. Pretty much.

10 blueraven  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:26:53am

Patreaus taking over!

11 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:27:25am

Obama hates the military because it sees through his un-Amercann-ness

Next phase of naarative. For your approval. Here in the Twilight Zone

/

12 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:27:37am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That guy that just got passed over for command of the Marine corps looks good for it. And the white house has had a copy of the article for 2 weeks. Is this why he got passed over maybe?

13 avanti  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:27:41am

Petraeus to replace McCrystal.

14 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:27:47am

McChrystal will probably take a few weeks off and resurface as a military expert on one of the news networks.

15 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:27:55am

re: #4 iceweasel

The wingnuts are already rallying behind him.

Yup, they are thrilled that the nation has been embarrassed.

16 Lidane  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:28:30am

re: #14 _RememberTonyC

McChrystal will probably take a few weeks off and resurface as a military expert on Fox.

FTFY.

17 TheMatrix31  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:28:51am

Some of you are absolutely obsessed with this "wingnut" nonsense. It's absolutely pathetic.

18 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:28:52am

re: #14 _RememberTonyC

McChrystal will probably take a few weeks off and resurface as a military expert on one of the news networks.

I don't think it's much mystery which network wants him the most.

19 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:29:04am

is there anything positive that will come of this? if so, could someone please cheer me up and let me know what it is?

20 erraticsphinx  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:29:44am

re: #15 Killgore Trout

They don't believe in civilian control of the military. Or even know that it is the hallmark of a free country.

OBAMUZ SOCIALISM TRIUMPHS AGAIN!

21 TheMatrix31  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:29:49am

Love the Petraeus pick, btw. LOVE it.

22 blueraven  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:29:51am

re: #17 TheMatrix31

Some of you are absolutely obsessed with this "wingnut" nonsense. It's absolutely pathetic.

And some of you have severe ODS. Pathetic!

23 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:30:03am

re: #18 Killgore Trout

I don't think it's much mystery which network wants him the most.

whomever coughs up the most money will likely get him. but I agree that FNC would be going after him.

24 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:30:05am

re: #17 TheMatrix31

Some of you are absolutely obsessed with this "wingnut" nonsense. It's absolutely pathetic.

Clearly, you have been living on the moon or something, where the GOP still gives a shit.

25 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:30:06am

re: #17 TheMatrix31

Some of you are absolutely obsessed with this "wingnut" nonsense. It's absolutely pathetic.

Well, you are so well acquainted with "pathetic" that you are the best person to sniff it out, aren't you?

26 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:30:23am

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

is there anything positive that will come of this? if so, could someone please cheer me up and let me know what it is?

I don't think he was doing a very good job in Afghanistan. Petraeus will probably do a better job.

27 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:30:24am

Meanwhile, the wingnut blogs are turning on Michael Yon now. I almost can't believe what I just read at Blackfive.

28 TheMatrix31  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:30:34am

re: #25 JasonA

Exactly.

29 brennant  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:30:52am

re: #27 Charles

That is just depressing.

30 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:31:00am

re: #27 Charles

Oh no. He is one of the best ever. I'm a huge fan.

31 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:31:25am

re: #21 TheMatrix31

Love the Petraeus pick, btw. LOVE it.

It's also smart because Republicans would be hard pressed to attempt blocking the nomination. They might but probably not.

32 avanti  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:31:30am

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

is there anything positive that will come of this? if so, could someone please cheer me up and let me know what it is?

Petraeus is a great replacement, might be more aggressive in the war and has more sense than to diss the chain of command.

33 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:32:00am

I wonder how the wingnuts are going to slam Obama for picking Petraeus.

Not if, how.

34 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:32:00am

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

is there anything positive that will come of this? if so, could someone please cheer me up and let me know what it is?

McCrystal will have a lot more time to spend with family?
//

35 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:32:03am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I don't think he was doing a very good job in Afghanistan. Petraeus will probably do a better job.

i hope you are right

36 webevintage  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:32:18am

re: #17 TheMatrix31

Some of you are absolutely obsessed with this "wingnut" nonsense. It's absolutely pathetic.


No I'm obsessed with crazy people who are taken seriously by serious people even though their concerns and comments have no basis in reality.
I'm concerned about a narrative that has no purpose other then to delegitimize the President and any actions he may take.
I'm obsessed (and at times delighted) with the willingness of the Republican party to embrace the and support wingnuts.

37 TheMatrix31  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:33:22am

re: #36 webevintage

I remember "General Betray-us". Maybe my memory is fuzzy.

38 erraticsphinx  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:34:32am

re: #37 TheMatrix31

No, you're just a wingnut.

39 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:34:56am

re: #27 Charles

Meanwhile, the wingnut blogs are turning on Michael Yon now. I almost can't believe what I just read at Blackfive.

McChrystal can't show a little fucking tact and its Yon's and the media's fault? WTF

40 webevintage  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:35:02am

re: #37 TheMatrix31

I remember "General Betray-us". Maybe my memory is fuzzy.

No one says there are not crazy morons on the other side....
Why do you assume that I thought the "Betray-us" crap was a good idea?

and really the "they did it too" argument never worked with our moms, why should it work in political discussions?

41 blueraven  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:35:47am

re: #37 TheMatrix31

I remember "General Betray-us". Maybe my memory is fuzzy.

And Move On was soundly criticized by Democrats for that little stunt.

42 TheMatrix31  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:35:56am

re: #40 webevintage

Why do people assume I'm a wingnut? I don't know. Ask the sphinx.

43 albusteve  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:36:04am

re: #19 _RememberTonyC

is there anything positive that will come of this? if so, could someone please cheer me up and let me know what it is?

I don't see it...easier to predict just the opposite...all's not well in Afghanistan, policy is getting our people killed

44 TheMatrix31  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:37:06am

Anyway, I have to leave. The US won one of the most amazing games I've ever witnessed, and now it's Germany's turn.

Later.

45 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:37:07am

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

McChrystal can't show a little fucking tact and its Yon's and the media's fault? WTF

Go read what Uncle Jimbo at Blackfive did. It's so fucking insane I almost think I dreamed it.

46 webevintage  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:37:18am

re: #42 TheMatrix31

Why do people assume I'm a wingnut?

I have no idea since I don't assume you are a wingnut.
Did I call you a wingnut?

47 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:37:19am

re: #42 TheMatrix31

Ask the sphinx.

BTW, Why do I have watermelon on my feet?

48 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:38:01am

re: #38 erraticsphinx

No, you're just a wingnut.

Nah. Give him the grace DF gave Ice last night--Matrix is a righty who is sane, partisan, and often wrong.

49 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:38:03am

re: #37 TheMatrix31

I remember "General Betray-us". Maybe my memory is fuzzy.

It's as if the wingnuts all follow a script that only they don't see coming.

50 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:38:30am

re: #45 Charles

Go read what Uncle Jimbo at Blackfive did. It's so fucking insane I almost think I dreamed it.

The Liddy clip?

51 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:39:14am

re: #47 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

BTW, Why do I have watermelon on my feet?

*Looks at the watermelon on Kragar's feet, then back up in confusion* I don't remember telling you to do that.

52 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:39:40am

re: #27 Charles

They're turning on Yon? Seriously? Yon had panned McChrystal months ago finding him woefully unprepared for the position - which reflects badly on President Obama who made that choice in the first place. Blackfive thinks that because Yon didn't give McChrystal a heads up about things with the pending RS piece (assuming that he provided background on McChrystal), that he was somehow wrong? Sorry, but I don't buy that - and moreover McChrystal got an advance on the RS piece and approved it (according to RS editors who said that they gave him a chance to rebut or make factual corrections).

McChrystal had a bad temperament and allowed this kind of behavior on his executive staff. That had to end and it did.

Gen. Petraeus now has more than a full plate in trying to deal with worldwide obligations and theater obligations. Lots of work on his plate, and we've got to hope he's up to the job. He's got my respect and if anyone can straighten things out, it's Petraeus.

For one thing - they better figure out the ROE and give the guys on the front lines more leeway to conduct operations and go after the bad guys instead of letting them appear to be sitting ducks who have to be fired upon first before returning fire.

53 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:39:55am

re: #50 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Liddy clip?

No -- he wrote an email to Michael Yon, using the name of his "best friend" -- who is DEAD. And now he's using it to smear Yon's credibility, because he didn't realize the email was a fake.

These people are completely out of control.

54 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:39:55am

Will somebody with a stronger stomach for idiocy than me please describe what Charles is talking about. I don't even want to go look for myself.

55 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:41:36am

re: #53 Charles

No -- he wrote an email to Michael Yon, using the name of his "best friend" -- who is DEAD. And now he's using it to smear Yon's credibility, because he didn't realize the email was a fake.

These people are completely out of control.

WTF

56 darthstar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:41:46am

Obama to speak live in two minutes...maybe throw the feed on up top, Charles?

57 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:42:09am

Do you know what is really bumming me out? The fact that Afghanistan is one of those places that I don't really think can be decisively "won." So we can make good progress there and perhaps kill a lot of the bad guys, but in that country, it seems that even the "good guys" are not very good. So at some point we will exhaust our political and military patience and then pull out. And as soon as we do that, we will be seen as having been defeated and those really good guys who did try to help us will have their heads cut off as the islamists gloat. It almost seems that only an unthinkable level of brutality on our part can lead to a sea change there. And I don't believe Obama or any other POTUS has the stomach for that.

58 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:42:17am

re: #39 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

McChrystal can't show a little fucking tact and its Yon's and the media's fault? WTF

This is from June first from Yon:

In the absence of success, Yon believes the military ended his embed to stifle an independent voice and steer coverage to a less experienced, more docile stenographer pool of reporters. "If McChrystal is perceived to fail in Kandahar, the Taliban will just about have us in media checkmate for 2011. This can have tremendous negative consequences and the Taliban leadership fully understands that."

He "turned" on McChrystal before the Rolling Stone article.

59 Leonidas Hoplite  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:42:37am

Well, he wanted an ass to kick, and McChrystal provided one.

60 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:43:45am

re: #57 _RememberTonyC

There's always been a problem with defining what victory there would be and how we could measure it.

61 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:44:19am

re: #58 wrenchwench

Go back to April. Even then he thought that McChrystal was in over his head.

62 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:44:29am

re: #57 _RememberTonyC

Do you know what is really bumming me out? The fact that Afghanistan is one of those places that I don't really think can be decisively "won." So we can make good progress there and perhaps kill a lot of the bad guys, but in that country, it seems that even the "good guys" are not very good. So at some point we will exhaust our political and military patience and then pull out. And as soon as we do that, we will be seen as having been defeated and those really good guys who did try to help us will have their heads cut off as the islamists gloat. It almost seems that only an unthinkable level of brutality on our part can lead to a sea change there. And I don't believe Obama or any other POTUS has the stomach for that.

Of course. The crime here is that so many who knew better portrayed it as winnable for so long, for political points.

63 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:44:58am

re: #57 _RememberTonyC

Do you know what is really bumming me out? The fact that Afghanistan is one of those places that I don't really think can be decisively "won." So we can make good progress there and perhaps kill a lot of the bad guys, but in that country, it seems that even the "good guys" are not very good. So at some point we will exhaust our political and military patience and then pull out. And as soon as we do that, we will be seen as having been defeated and those really good guys who did try to help us will have their heads cut off as the islamists gloat. It almost seems that only an unthinkable level of brutality on our part can lead to a sea change there. And I don't believe Obama or any other POTUS has the stomach for that.

I think the Russians tried the "unthinkable brutality' bit. Didn't play well on the road.

64 darthstar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:45:01am

Taking the high ground on the insubordination...good for you, Mr. President.

65 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:45:10am

Michael Yon’s criticism of McChrystal deemed prophetic

Long before Rolling Stone published the story, war correspondent Michael Yon had also levied criticism at McChrystal. Yon came under fire from some milbloggers for his dispatches, and at least one military blog came close to character assassination because of what Yon wrote about McChrystal.

Yon has consistently turned out major stories about the war that others missed, such as the Canadian Brigadier General who not only fired his weapon negligently but also was accused of having an affair with a female staffer. The military and media lagged in that coverage.

Yon also pinpointed a serious blunder that left a vital bridge unsecured in Afghanistan, leading to deaths and injuries for soldiers and civilians.

In a dispatch on Yon's Facebook Fan Page where approximately 35,000 fans read his posts, he wrote: “If a Colonel under General McChrystal's chain of command publicly dismissed General McChrystal in a major magazine, McChrystal would be forced to fire him or appear weak and not in control.”

66 albusteve  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:47:29am

re: #61 lawhawk

Go back to April. Even then he thought that McChrystal was in over his head.

Stan is a special ops guy....he blew away AQ in Iraq....this Afghan assignment does not fit his style or temperment

67 OldnGrumpy  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:47:50am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So lets just skip all the vitriol and hurling of invectives and cut to the chase.

Who is getting the job now?

Gen Patraeus

68 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:47:50am

re: #60 iceweasel

There's always been a problem with defining what victory there would be and how we could measure it.

The culture of that country is backward and very much ingrained. I suppose that is sadly typical of many nations in that region. I agreed with Obama upping the ante there, but the russians tried straight up brutality and it didn't subdue the country. We tried something more surgical and humane, but the locals seem unwilling to embrace us either. So what is left?

69 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:49:01am

re: #68 _RememberTonyC

The culture of that country is backward and very much ingrained. I suppose that is sadly typical of many nations in that region. I agreed with Obama upping the ante there, but the russians tried straight up brutality and it didn't subdue the country. We tried something more surgical and humane, but the locals seem unwilling to embrace us either. So what is left?

Not getting stuck in a land war in Asia.

70 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:49:08am

re: #68 _RememberTonyC

The culture of that country is backward and very much ingrained. I suppose that is sadly typical of many nations in that region. I agreed with Obama upping the ante there, but the russians tried straight up brutality and it didn't subdue the country. We tried something more surgical and humane, but the locals seem unwilling to embrace us either. So what is left?

There never was a possibility of a lasting victory there.

71 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:49:08am

re: #57 _RememberTonyC

Do you know what is really bumming me out? The fact that Afghanistan is one of those places that I don't really think can be decisively "won." So we can make good progress there and perhaps kill a lot of the bad guys, but in that country, it seems that even the "good guys" are not very good. So at some point we will exhaust our political and military patience and then pull out. And as soon as we do that, we will be seen as having been defeated and those really good guys who did try to help us will have their heads cut off as the islamists gloat. It almost seems that only an unthinkable level of brutality on our part can lead to a sea change there. And I don't believe Obama or any other POTUS has the stomach for that.

Afghanistan, rightly or wrongly, is going to be portrayed as a "comedy of errors." About how we repeatedly had "victory" within our grasp, that if only we'd do this or that right, it would have been ours. Like Vietnam, we'll be told that we won all the battles that mattered, but the politicians ultimately lost the war.

72 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:49:26am

Right wingers on Twitter are overwhelmingly taking McChrystal's side.

73 erraticsphinx  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:49:58am

He just pronounced Pakistan is such a liberal elite way. We hatessss him.

74 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:50:09am

re: #68 _RememberTonyC

The culture of that country is backward and very much ingrained. I suppose that is sadly typical of many nations in that region. I agreed with Obama upping the ante there, but the russians tried straight up brutality and it didn't subdue the country. We tried something more surgical and humane, but the locals seem unwilling to embrace us either. So what is left?

How about just leaving and continue flying drones so the ability of the terrorists to use Afghanistan as a base is disrupted. The Taliban wasn't the problem it was the terrorist training camps they allowed to flourish, wasn't it?

I don't think this is winnable.

75 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:50:14am

re: #68 _RememberTonyC

The culture of that country is backward and very much ingrained. I suppose that is sadly typical of many nations in that region. I agreed with Obama upping the ante there, but the russians tried straight up brutality and it didn't subdue the country. We tried something more surgical and humane, but the locals seem unwilling to embrace us either. So what is left?

The inevitable claim that Obama 'lost' or 'bungled' the war when we leave.
There are no conditions under which we will leave that will be a conventional form of victory. ODS sufferers and various other political opportunists can be counted on to blame Obama for this.

76 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:50:28am

Typical Twitter posts from wingnuts:

Obama the LIAR. He didn't fire #McChrystal because of national security. He WAS angry. His press secretary admitted that yesterday.


[...]

Obama's ego more important than making wise decision for America. Typical .. we've seen it over & over. WAKE UP AMERICA!

77 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:50:33am

re: #72 Charles

Right wingers on Twitter are overwhelmingly taking McChrystal's side.

Weren't a bunch of them producing a lot of hot air about the RS article and his attitude towards Obama just last night?

78 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:50:34am

re: #72 Charles

Right wingers on Twitter are overwhelmingly taking McChrystal's side.

MacArthur Deux.

79 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:50:42am

re: #66 albusteve

McChrystal was a spec ops guy who was operating at the behest and discretion of Petraeus and his staff. The special ops stuff is subordinate to the larger role of dealing with the entire theater of operations and all that entails.

Yon's postings and interactions with McChrystal and his staff showed that he wasn't up to the task of dealing with the entire theater.

Soldiers (or Generals) may excel in one role but do poorly in others. It happens. It's the bad judgment on his part that irks me - that he enabled his underlings to openly question the chain of command like that.

80 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:50:46am

re: #56 darthstar

If I may save him the trouble...

81 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:50:51am

When I was opposed to the invasion of Iraq after 9/11, I was called a coward and a traitor numerous times, and asked why I hated my country. All this, for speaking my mind.

Apparently, this doesn't cut both ways.

82 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:50:53am

re: #72 Charles

Right wingers on Twitter are overwhelmingly taking McChrystal's side.

Naturally. Now if McChrystal had said the same things about Bush, they'ld be calling for his head.

83 albusteve  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:51:09am

re: #68 _RememberTonyC

The culture of that country is backward and very much ingrained. I suppose that is sadly typical of many nations in that region. I agreed with Obama upping the ante there, but the russians tried straight up brutality and it didn't subdue the country. We tried something more surgical and humane, but the locals seem unwilling to embrace us either. So what is left?

I didn't..I never liked this war from the beginning, we are over our heads and said so many times...30k troops was a pitance, but for a guy that denied the success of the Iraqi surge well into his campaign, I'm not surprised by the gesture

84 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:51:36am

re: #76 Charles

Typical Twitter posts from wingnuts:

That's typical of the reaction over at Hot Air too.

85 erraticsphinx  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:51:50am

re: #72 Charles

Yeah, I'm also gonna guess that's gonna put a damper on the Petraeus '12! crowd.

86 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:51:54am

re: #82 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Naturally. Now if McChrystal had said the same things about Bush, they'ld be calling for his head.

Consistency has never been one of their strengths.

87 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:53:11am

re: #75 iceweasel

The inevitable claim that Obama 'lost' or 'bungled' the war when we leave.
There are no conditions under which we will leave that will be a conventional form of victory. ODS sufferers and various other political opportunists can be counted on to blame Obama for this.

I've disagreed with Obama on plenty of things, but I always felt he was correct to up the ante in afghanistan. I want him to be succesful there because it means WE will all benefit. This should not be about assessing blame, it should be about the good of the country. I'll disagree with the POTUS on other things, but not this.

88 darthstar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:53:29am

re: #72 Charles

Right wingers on Twitter are overwhelmingly taking McChrystal's side.

And if Obama hadn't accepted the resignation, they'd be going off on that...there's no pleasing those people.

89 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:53:31am

Why does McCrystal hate America? Niel Cavuto is dying to know. /

90 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:53:44am

re: #86 PT Barnum

Consistency has never been one of their strengths.


They would never talk that way about him Bush loved the military, heck, he almost served in it once, remember?

91 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:54:07am

re: #72 Charles

Right wingers on Twitter are overwhelmingly taking McChrystal's side.

I'm no Obama fan, but McCrystal's antics left him no choice.

92 Renaissance_Man  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:54:15am

re: #81 Fozzie Bear

When I was opposed to the invasion of Iraq after 9/11, I was called a coward and a traitor numerous times, and asked why I hated my country. All this, for speaking my mind.

Apparently, this doesn't cut both ways.

Of course it cuts both ways. When lefties and progs oppose war, it's because they're cowards and traitors. When patriots oppose war, it's because they're opposing prog cowards and traitors. That's what being bipartisan means.

93 albusteve  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:54:43am

re: #79 lawhawk

McChrystal was a spec ops guy who was operating at the behest and discretion of Petraeus and his staff. The special ops stuff is subordinate to the larger role of dealing with the entire theater of operations and all that entails.

Yon's postings and interactions with McChrystal and his staff showed that he wasn't up to the task of dealing with the entire theater.

Soldiers (or Generals) may excel in one role but do poorly in others. It happens. It's the bad judgment on his part that irks me - that he enabled his underlings to openly question the chain of command like that.

I have not read Yons stuff yet...I'll dig it up and get more informed...I consider Yon an expert

94 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:54:51am

Article 88 of the UCMJ

“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

(1) That the accused was a commissioned officer of the United States armed forces;

(2) That the accused used certain words against an official or legislature named in the article;

(3) That by an act of the accused these words came to the knowledge of a person other than the accused; and

(4) That the words used were contemptuous, either in themselves or by virtue of the circumstances under which they were used. Note: If the words were against a Governor or legislature, add the following element

(5) That the accused was then present in the State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession of the Governor or legislature concerned.

95 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:55:00am

gotta run to a 2pm meeting ...... later folks

96 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:55:49am

re: #76 Charles

Typical Twitter posts from wingnuts:

Sheesh! They guy was publicly insubordinate. Even the fat mlitia kooks must understand that the military will not work without a chain of command.

97 OldnGrumpy  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:56:40am

It has happened before.

POTUS is commander-in-chief,piss-off the boss....lose your job.

Gen.Douglas Macarthur comed to mind.

98 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:56:52am

Another Twitter comment:

Poor BHO got his feeling hurt becuz of McChrystal's remarks. Prez get thicker skin. U r looking like a wimp to the rest of the world

99 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:57:19am

Well, there are plenty of people, even posters here, who "don't see what the big deal is" about what McCrystal said. It's astounding.

100 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:57:26am

re: #87 _RememberTonyC

I've disagreed with Obama on plenty of things, but I always felt he was correct to up the ante in afghanistan. I want him to be succesful there because it means WE will all benefit. This should not be about assessing blame, it should be about the good of the country. I'll disagree with the POTUS on other things, but not this.

Right-- I know that about you. I definitely didn't have you in mind when I mentioned ODS sufferers and political opportunists blaming him, btw. I wasn't even thinking about any posters here so much as I was the gasbags and loons in right wing media/politics.

(also some assorted cranks on the left)

101 Lidane  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:57:28am

re: #76 Charles

*sigh*

So much idiocy. Still, I refuse to let those imbeciles bring me down from my World Cup high. The US not only won the match today, but also won their group for the first time in 80 years. This was HUGE.

Fuck those people sideways with a 2x4, no kiss, and no lube. Seriously. Could they be any more contemptible?

102 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:58:00am

re: #98 Charles

Another Twitter comment:

McCrystal, Obey the Uniformed Code of Military Justice!!

103 albusteve  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:58:38am

re: #75 iceweasel

The inevitable claim that Obama 'lost' or 'bungled' the war when we leave.
There are no conditions under which we will leave that will be a conventional form of victory. ODS sufferers and various other political opportunists can be counted on to blame Obama for this.

Afghanistan stands squarely on BO shoulders...there is no partisan spinning it other wise...he wanted it and he got it, however it turns out will be on him, and rightly so...that's the way it works...ODS and that partisan tripe is only a side effect and has nothing to do with prosecuting the war or it's outcome

104 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:59:01am

Watching a conspiracy theory be born:

Did Obama just tie Petraeus up through the 2012 cycle?

105 darthstar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:59:38am

re: #101 Lidane

*sigh*

So much idiocy. Still, I refuse to let those imbeciles bring me down from my World Cup high. The US not only won the match today, but also won their group for the first time in 80 years. This was HUGE.

Fuck those people sideways with a 2x4, no kiss, and no lube. Seriously. Could they be any more contemptible?

It was huge...and all thanks to this guy...well, the whole team played well, and Dempsey should have gotten a penalty kick for taking an elbow to the face in the box. Two goals stolen by refs (one today, and one against Slovenia) and we still came out on top. That's perseverence.

(image from The Onion, of course)

106 cliffster  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:59:52am

McChrystal seems to be a moron. Back in the fall, when Obama finally decided to send more troops, McChrystal said he had a good plan. All the leftie partisans swarmed around him - Proof that Obama doing things right! McChrystal was on a pedestal because he seemed to help the Obama cause.

Now, it's the rightie partisans swarming around McChrystal. He is put on their pedestal because he seems to help the anti-Obama cause.

Moral of this story - partisan people have no actual core beliefs. They are just shallow kneejerks who lack any moral stones.

107 Lidane  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:59:52am

re: #104 Charles

Did Petraeus ever ever give any indication of wanting to run for office at all?

108 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 10:59:57am

re: #103 albusteve

Afghanistan stands squarely on BO shoulders...there is no partisan spinning it other wise...he wanted it and he got it, however it turns out will be on him, and rightly so...that's the way it works...ODS and that partisan tripe is only a side effect and has nothing to do with prosecuting the war or it's outcome

Yeah. Just like Nixon gets all the blame for Vietnam...

109 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:00:21am

Any General whose aides talk like that to a reporter from "Rolling Stone" (really?) has fostered a climate of insubordination and disrespect for the national command authority amongst his staff.

What in the hell was he thinking even taking the weeks long "interview" to start with? He already got himself in trouble at least twice with his big mouth during the review of the Afghanistan strategy by Obama and the NSC. He was told in no uncertain terms to shut the hell up and follow orders by the pentagon brass and now he went and pulled this loony stunt?

The man has obviously read MacArthur's biography a few too many times or something...

110 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:00:26am

Big picture:

Afghanistan was, is, and may still remain a mess. The US policy now that the President sacked Gen. McChrystal is a mess, but hopefully Gen. Petraeus will find a way to fix things and get things back on to a positive track. Petraeus had a knack for knowing when and how to use the forces and politics at his disposal.

In the theater, having a general in charge who commands the kind of attention and respect that Petraeus does is invaluable. That will go a long way to improving matters with the Afghan govt - those warlords and local leaders who might lean towards US assistance against the Taliban, etc.

Siding with McChrystal because Obama sacked him just because it was McChrystal makes little sense. McChrystal was wrong and was insubordinate and such actions cannot be tolerated in the chain of command. Obama had little choice but remove McChrystal.

That doesn't mean that President Obama was right either. He was the one who made the judgment call to select McChrystal for the position despite some evidence going in that he wasn't right for the job. That reflects poorly on the President.

Correcting that error shows that the President is capable of learning from his mistakes.

Still, there is one thing (of many) that worries me.

When there are big problems with the military, all roads seemingly lead to one guy - Petraeus. That's not good for the long term.

When there are big problems with economics matters - all roads lead to one guy - Feinberg. That too isn't good for the long term. We have to have more expertise and competence than just two men. I'm glad we've got 'em where we do, but it is troubling that there aren't more who can shoulder that burden.

111 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:00:36am

I'll bet this conspiracy theory is going to spread like wildfire through the wingnut blogs: Obama put Petraeus in charge to keep him out of the 2012 election.

112 albusteve  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:01:12am

re: #91 rwdflynavy

I'm no Obama fan, but McCrystal's antics left him no choice.

of course not...maybe the guy is playing politics, now BO has to explain the whole thing and what he intends on doing to fight the war successfully...BO is in a very tight spot

113 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:01:13am

re: #111 Charles

I'll bet this conspiracy theory is going to spread like wildfire through the wingnut blogs: Obama put Petraeus in charge to keep him out of the 2012 election.

Dude, I wouldn't be surprised if you just started it...

114 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:01:14am

re: #78 Decatur Deb

MacArthur Deux.

Just what I was thinking. I was just looking for a MacArthur quote about a, "temporary occupant of the white house". Can't find the whole quote or context.

115 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:01:29am

re: #107 Lidane

Did Petraeus ever ever give any indication of wanting to run for office at all?

Last I saw, no one even knows if he's a Repub or a Dem. (And rightly so.)

116 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:02:25am

re: #111 Charles

I'll bet this conspiracy theory is going to spread like wildfire through the wingnut blogs: Obama put Petraeus in charge to keep him out of the 2012 election.

If they attribute this one to you, i'll flip my shit.

117 RadicalModerate  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:02:38am

As usual, freepers don't disappoint in their delusional and violent fantasies.

Isn’t it a shame that an illegal alien, muslim, muslim sympathizer, and impostor can even be in the same room as someone with the credential as McChrystal . . . and to have that punk “relieve” him of command is such an insult to a loyal American.
When will this madness end.
10 posted on Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:34:42 PM CST by laweeks

(referring to Obama)
A TseTse fly would be wonderful!
73 posted on Wed 23 Jun 2010 12:53:25 PM CST by Red_Devil 232 (VietVet - USMC All Ready On The Right? All Ready On The Left? All Ready On The Firing Line!)

118 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:02:58am

re: #115 Decatur Deb

Last I saw, no one even knows if he's a Repub or a Dem. (And rightly so.)

Same as Eisenhower: he was courted by both parties.

119 cliffster  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:03:11am

re: #109 ausador

Or his "McChrystal 2012" bumper sticker and yard sign order came in.

120 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:03:17am

re: #111 Charles

I'll bet this conspiracy theory is going to spread like wildfire through the wingnut blogs: Obama put Petraeus in charge to keep him out of the 2012 election.

And now Schwarzkopf can make his move unopposed!

121 Nadnerb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:03:28am

I hope that Obamas choice of Petraeus gives greater hope to the troops in this fight than did McChrystal-he surely knows what he's doing and had achieved much success in Iraq. I think despite the stupidity of this (McChrystal et al mouthing off to Rolling Stone) Obama has shown leadership here that inspires confidence in me and I pray within the troops.

The talking point I've heard is that Obamas skin is 'too thin.' This has happened before at critical times during war and he's upholding the chain of command precedent. The choice of Petraeus seems very smart to this armchair general....

122 albusteve  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:03:29am

re: #108 JasonA

Yeah. Just like Nixon gets all the blame for Vietnam...

I never heard that one...Nixon finally ended our involvement on the ground

123 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:03:34am

re: #101 Lidane

*sigh*

So much idiocy. Still, I refuse to let those imbeciles bring me down from my World Cup high. The US not only won the match today, but also won their group for the first time in 80 years. This was HUGE.

How many touchdowns did they score?

124 Lidane  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:03:48am

re: #111 Charles

I'll bet this conspiracy theory is going to spread like wildfire through the wingnut blogs: Obama put Petraeus in charge to keep him out of the 2012 election.

Isn't that what they said about Obama appointing Huntsman as Ambassador to China?

I still maintain that Huntsman saw the wingularity on the horizon and got out while the getting was good, but I remember a whole lot of conspiracy talk about that appointment too.

125 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:04:40am

re: #123 Mad Al-Jaffee

How many touchdowns did they score?

Only one run crossed the plate, silly!

126 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:04:47am

re: #109 ausador

What in the hell was he thinking even taking the weeks long "interview" to start with?

I'm not defending him by any means, but the interview was only supposed to be over 2-3 days. Then the Icelandic volcano grounded everyone, and the reporter wound up with them for a few weeks.
But according to the interviews I've read with the reporter, the worst stuff was said in the first couple of days anyway-- and RS editorial and the reporter confirm that McChrystal and aides saw the quotes before finalisation. They had a chance to walk back the worst statements, and didn't.

127 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:04:48am

As a military martyr, "McChrystal" just doesn't have the same ring to it as "MacArthur".

128 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:06:39am

re: #127 Cato the Elder

You're back! You've been missed around here.

129 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:06:39am

So lets see, first a few appearance on Fox, then he'll hit the radio circuit to promote his lecture tour, book deal announced right before the elections, with some "leaks" to help stir the pot.

130 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:08:08am

Another lovely #tcot comment:

So does this mean McChrystal is free to lead a military coup and kick out the Obama admin now?

131 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:08:13am

My ultra conservative, rightwing boss came in this morning saying that McCrystal's men are now planning a military coup and it's been "a long time coming". The sick thing about it, he was almost salivating as if he'd start it himself if he could.

132 Ericus58  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:08:23am

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

Well, there are plenty of people, even posters here, who "don't see what the big deal is" about what McCrystal said. It's astounding.

I must have missed the posts by any of the regulars here that support McChrystal. I have to doubt you on that.

Being ex-military myself, and with several friends who are ex-military, we all thought this was out-of-line and his being relieved was required. He showed a complete lack of judgment, leadership and trust. The President had to replace him.

What we cannot afford to do from both a military and political stand point is to give the appearance of backing out on our commitment there. You think we have an issue dealing with a resurgent Taliban now, just watch over the coming months if it seems we are going to abandon the ground there before a stable government and military are established.
The Afghans are not dummies. If they think we consider this effort a lost cause and are just looking for an exit, NO ONE there will stick around on that sinking ship and be left holding the bag as the head-choppers regain power.

This is a crossroads for the Afghan people and us.

133 tnguitarist  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:08:53am

re: #45 Charles

I went and read some on that site. They really don't understand civilian control of the military and why it is important. I believe they would just as soon have martial law as the law of the land.

134 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:09:05am

re: #130 Charles

Another lovely #tcot comment:

The word on the street as it were.

135 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:09:11am

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So lets just skip all the vitriol and hurling of invectives and cut to the chase.

Who is getting the job now?

Petraeus. Who is a better man for the job.

136 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:09:15am

re: #130 Charles

wtf?

137 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:09:38am

re: #132 Ericus58

I'm not going to call people out. There were several regulars yesterday who didn't think he actually did anything wrong.

138 rwmofo  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:09:59am

The General was obviously wrong, but imagine if George Bush were President. McChrystal the "whistelblower" would be a hero to ABC/NBC/CBS/MSNBC/NY Times and primed for a book deal.

139 wrenchwench  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:10:26am

re: #136 JasonA

wtf?

Put it together with marjorie's that follows it.

O:

140 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:10:33am

My mother in Tucson is going to join a new group, called the Coffee Party in retaliation against the Tea Party. I haven't talked to her about it (she sent me an e-mail). Anyone heard of it?

141 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:10:51am

re: #131 marjoriemoon

My ultra conservative, rightwing boss came in this morning saying that McCrystal's men are now planning a military coup and it's been "a long time coming". The sick thing about it, he was almost salivating as if he'd start it himself if he could.

Long time coming? There is NO chance of any such thing. None. It will rain little green leather oblong balls in hell before the U.S. sees a coup d'etat.

142 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:10:53am

My presser embed is dead. The natural fate of live video embeds I'm sure. When I find a recorded version I'll re do the page on this conference.

143 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:10:57am

re: #130 Charles

Another lovely #tcot comment:

You know, it was fucking pathetic when the moonbats dreamed about storming the White House and holding a coup to oust Bush and its fucking pathetic when the wingnuts dream about doing it to Obama.

144 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:12:02am

re: #140 marjoriemoon

My mother in Tucson is going to join a new group, called the Coffee Party in retaliation against the Tea Party. I haven't talked to her about it (she sent me an e-mail). Anyone heard of it?

It's a lefty, semi-mocking answer to the TPs. I think its time came and went.

145 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:12:05am

re: #143 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The moonbats don't plan these kinds of things, they just vapidly dream. I'm not sure about the current batch of right wing crazies.

146 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:12:17am

re: #111 Charles

I'll bet this conspiracy theory is going to spread like wildfire through the wingnut blogs: Obama put Petraeus in charge to keep him out of the 2012 election.

Petraeus is already out of the 2012 election. He has all but issued the Sherman declaration:

If nominated, I will not run. If elected, I will not serve.

147 abolitionist  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:12:47am

re: #114 EdDantes

Just what I was thinking. I was just looking for a MacArthur quote about a, "temporary occupant of the white house". Can't find the whole quote or context.

MacArthur and Truman

Truman said, "Then why did you refuse my direct order and give a personal ultimatum to the Chinese?"
MacArthur fired back, "Your gag order was part of the dangerous concept- that armed forces owe their primary allegiance to you temporary occupants of the White House - instead of to the Country and the Constitution we're sworn to defend!"
"Mac, you should have listened to the Joint Chiefs: 'It's fundamental that all military commanders must be governed by the constitutional guarantee of CIVILIAN control over the military.' People who think they're God get themselves in trouble. Americans have common sense- when you get too far out of line, they're gonna put you out of business."
MacArthur insisted, "But once war has been forced upon us, war's very object is victory, not prolonged indecision. There can be no substitute for victory. History teaches that appeasement only begets new and bloodier war. Like blackmail, it lays the basis for new, increasingly greater demands, until violence is the only alternative!"
148 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:12:57am

re: #145 Fozzie Bear

The moonbats don't plan these kinds of things, they just vapidly dream. I'm not sure about the current batch of right wing crazies.

The irony is that these individuals dream of someone else doing it...

149 KingKenrod  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:13:03am

re: #138 rwmofo

The General was obviously wrong, but imagine if George Bush were President. McChrystal the "whistelblower" would be a hero to ABC/NBC/CBS/MSNBC/NY Times and primed for a book deal.

And the right-wingers would be defending Bush.

150 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:13:10am

re: #128 JasonA

You're back! You've been missed around here.

Needed a break. Family stuff. My mom's in the hospital.

And I've been distracting myself by speed-watching "Lost" on Netflix Instant.

Damn you, Walter.

151 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:13:56am

re: #150 Cato the Elder

Needed a break. Family stuff. My mom's in the hospital.

And I've been distracting myself by speed-watching "Lost" on Netflix Instant.

Damn you, Walter.

I've been watching "Angel" for the last 2 weeks.

152 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:14:23am

re: #147 abolitionist

Ah, Thank you!

153 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:14:39am

re: #150 Cato the Elder

Needed a break. Family stuff. My mom's in the hospital.

And I've been distracting myself by speed-watching "Lost" on Netflix Instant.

Damn you, Walter.

Holy shit. My mom's in the hospital, too. Best wishes to you two.

154 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:14:56am

Battlestar Galactica is my latest addiction.

Great frakkin show. I don't know how I missed it.

155 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:15:04am

re: #150 Cato the Elder

Best to your mom!

156 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:15:38am

re: #150 Cato the Elder

Needed a break. Family stuff. My mom's in the hospital.

And I've been distracting myself by speed-watching "Lost" on Netflix Instant.

Damn you, Walter.

I recently watched most of "Party Down" on Netflix. Hilarious show.

157 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:15:38am

I hope all is well with mom, Cato, or at least trending that way.

158 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:15:40am

re: #154 Fozzie Bear

Battlestar Galactica is my latest addiction.

Great frakkin show. I don't know how I missed it.

Stop watching it at the end of season 4.0. They had a perfect ending... and then they made 10 more episodes.

159 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:15:48am

re: #140 marjoriemoon

My mother in Tucson is going to join a new group, called the Coffee Party in retaliation against the Tea Party. I haven't talked to her about it (she sent me an e-mail). Anyone heard of it?

It's big on facebook. Generally dedicated to bringing back civility in public discourse and actually discussing the issues instead of just shouting at each other.

160 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:16:27am

re: #144 Decatur Deb

It's a lefty, semi-mocking answer to the TPs. I think its time came and went.

Sounds kinda cute. My mom's a lefty, too. I'll have to ask her more. I thought I heard something about it before.

161 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:16:30am

re: #158 JasonA

Stop watching it at the end of season 4.0. They had a perfect ending... and then they made 10 more episodes.

They made 10 episodes after season 4?!?!?!

Are you talking about Caprica, or something else?

162 tnguitarist  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:17:02am

re: #130 Charles

Another lovely #tcot comment:

My point exactly.

163 cliffster  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:17:19am

re: #159 PT Barnum

It's big on facebook. Generally dedicated to bringing back civility in public discourse and actually discussing the issues instead of just shouting at each other.

you just made me shoot coffee out my nose.

164 erraticsphinx  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:17:40am

I don't remember who it was, but somebody here mentioned the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series by George RR Martin.

Whoever it was, thank you. One of the best things I've ever read.

165 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:17:47am

re: #154 Fozzie Bear

Battlestar Galactica is my latest addiction.

Great frakkin show. I don't know how I missed it.

I've only seen the pilot/movie. I have season on in my queue. Next up for me is season 3 of Burn Notice.

166 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:18:11am

re: #163 cliffster

you just made me shoot coffee out my nose.

I know..fat chance that's ever gonna happen, right.

By the way I burned a steak the other night.

:)

167 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:18:16am

re: #159 PT Barnum

It's big on facebook. Generally dedicated to bringing back civility in public discourse and actually discussing the issues instead of just shouting at each other.

Sounds like the League of Women Voters.

168 harrylook  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:18:20am

Definitely happy with the Petraeus pick. Hopefully we can move on from this now and kick some ass in Afghanistan.
Loved the comments in yesterday's thread. The insight here is often ahead of, or even better than, what you get in the MSM.

169 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:18:40am

re: #159 PT Barnum

It's big on facebook. Generally dedicated to bringing back civility in public discourse and actually discussing the issues instead of just shouting at each other.

In other words, bound to fail in the current politicial, social and economic climate.

170 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:18:45am

re: #161 Fozzie Bear

They made 10 episodes after season 4?!?!?!

Are you talking about Caprica, or something else?

No no no. They split their seasons. Like you'll see they have DVD sets for Season 2.0 and 2.5. The ending of the first half of season 4 was picture perfect for that series. I was partially joking; you should watch the rest. I'm just of the opinion that they shouldn't have made them.

171 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:18:52am

re: #164 erraticsphinx

I don't remember who it was, but somebody here mentioned the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series by George RR Martin.

Whoever it was, thank you. One of the best things I've ever read.

Tyrion is the man!

172 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:19:08am

re: #167 Decatur Deb

Sounds like the League of Women Voters.

I get the sense they want to be more militant about it then the LWV. I never hear about them except around debate time.

173 cliffster  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:19:20am

re: #166 PT Barnum

I know..fat chance that's ever gonna happen, right.

By the way I burned a steak the other night.

:)

Awesome. I hope you only burned the outside and left the inside pink. I did a nice number on some chicken breast last night with the help of my good friend Bobby Flay.

174 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:19:56am

re: #172 PT Barnum

I get the sense they want to be more militant about it then the LWV. I never hear about them except around debate time.

League of Militantly Civil Voters.

175 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:19:59am

re: #158 JasonA

Stop watching it at the end of season 4.0. They had a perfect ending... and then they made 10 more episodes.

You watch your mouth, you frakin' toaster. I think the fleet send-off in the finale was one of the best scenes of the show!

176 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:20:10am

re: #169 ralphieboy

In other words, bound to fail in the current politicial, social and economic climate.

I think this will meet the same fate as the Unity '08 effort that folded when an actual centrist was nominated by the Democrats.

177 erraticsphinx  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:20:19am

re: #171 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It's going to be agonizing waiting for the next book to come out. Boooo.

178 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:20:23am

re: #27 Charles

Meanwhile, the wingnut blogs are turning on Michael Yon now. I almost can't believe what I just read at Blackfive.


Michael Yon is our Ernie Pyle, our Vassily Grossman perhaps. Just hoping he doesn't suffer Pyle's fate.

179 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:20:58am

re: #178 lostlakehiker

Michael Yon is our Ernie Pyle, our Vassily Grossman perhaps. Just hoping he doesn't suffer Pyle's fate.

Or Robert Capa's.

180 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:21:03am

re: #174 Decatur Deb

League of Militantly Civil Voters.

I think there is a desire to start calling people out for their bad behavior. Too bad the press won't do it.

181 Four More Tears  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:21:14am

re: #175 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

:P

Alright, it's time for me to get out of here and visit mom. Be well, everyone.

182 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:21:21am

re: #141 lostlakehiker

Long time coming? There is NO chance of any such thing. None. It will rain little green leather oblong balls in hell before the U.S. sees a coup d'etat.

Oh my boss hates Obama. He's really a libertarian but not a religious conservative. I don't know how we survive working together although we like each other...even though we couldn't be farther away politically.

Ever since the election, I've been staying out of political discussion with him. Since he IS my superior and I like being employed :)

183 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:21:37am

re: #181 JasonA

Good Luck.

184 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:21:48am

re: #181 JasonA

:P

Alright, it's time for me to get out of here and visit mom. Be well, everyone.

Best wishes, my friend. I may not be a prayin' man, but ya'll are in my thoughts.

185 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:22:01am

re: #159 PT Barnum

It's big on facebook. Generally dedicated to bringing back civility in public discourse and actually discussing the issues instead of just shouting at each other.

That's very cool. I'll tell her.

186 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:22:52am

re: #182 marjoriemoon

Oh my boss hates Obama. He's really a libertarian but not a religious conservative. I don't know how we survive working together although we like each other...even though we couldn't be farther away politically.

Ever since the election, I've been staying out of political discussion with him. Since he IS my superior and I like being employed :)

speaking of hating obama, I just got my drivers license renewed. the return email for questions was ods@dot.iowa.gov

I didn't know they had a whole department for that!
/

187 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:22:54am

re: #154 Fozzie Bear

Were you stuck in an airlock somewhere? /

188 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:23:33am

re: #185 marjoriemoon

That's very cool. I'll tell her.

It does trend left, but there seems to be a concerted effort to call people out when they devolve into name calling.

189 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:23:48am

re: #131 marjoriemoon

My ultra conservative, rightwing boss came in this morning saying that McCrystal's men are now planning a military coup and it's been "a long time coming". The sick thing about it, he was almost salivating as if he'd start it himself if he could.

I wish more bosses were aware of the amount of productivity they cost their companies in time spent causing their employees to roll their eyes and then mark the exits.

190 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:24:17am

re: #167 Decatur Deb

re: #172 PT Barnum

My mom joined the LWV back when it was first formed as well as NOW. I think she's still a member of the League, but not NOW. Back in the day, these women's groups simply didn't exist. They were the first. And my mom was a Women's Libber as they were called hehe

Gawd I love my mommy.

191 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:24:31am

re: #177 erraticsphinx

It's going to be agonizing waiting for the next book to come out. Booo.

I'm waiting till November and the next WoT book.

192 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:25:27am

re: #178 lostlakehiker

Michael Yon is our Ernie Pyle, our Vassily Grossman perhaps. Just hoping he doesn't suffer Pyle's fate.

Any candidates for our Bill Mauldin? Can't help but wonder what Willie and Joe would think of all this mess.

193 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:25:45am

re: #188 PT Barnum

It does trend left, but there seems to be a concerted effort to call people out when they devolve into name calling.

So, like an LGF Party?
//

194 erraticsphinx  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:26:06am

re: #191 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Would I like WoT if I liked A Song of Ice and Fire?

I have the whole summer to read stuff.

195 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:26:10am

Okay..I gotta go back to work...this code ain't gonna write itself. One of the benefits of working at home and being your own boss..you get to screw around without getting fired for it.

196 Targetpractice  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:26:44am

re: #189 goddamnedfrank

I wish more bosses were aware of the amount of productivity they cost their companies in time spent causing their employees to roll their eyes and then mark the exits.

Too bad we can't get claim "Brain cells killed by stupid bosses forcing us to bang our heads against a wall" as disability.

197 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:27:01am

re: #186 PT Barnum

speaking of hating obama, I just got my drivers license renewed. the return email for questions was ods@dot.iowa.gov

I didn't know they had a whole department for that!
/

OMG is that funny. What does the ODS stand for? Official Driver's ???

Btw, you didn't have to retake your picture and all that? I had to and pass an eye test. I also had to bring DNA, blood, hair and urine samples

(I kid... although at the time, that's what it felt like.)

198 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:27:34am

Ontario/Quebec just got hit by a 5.5 Earthquake.

I'm away in Indiana... but family is all reporting they felt the tremors.

The ONE time EVER that an EARTHQUAKE hits Canada, and I've gotta be in the US.... what's the deal!

(No reports of injuries... people are just startled, earthquakes aren't known to happen in the area).

Tweeters are already joking "Quebec is finally separating!"

199 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:28:14am

re: #190 marjoriemoon

re: #172 PT Barnum

My mom joined the LWV back when it was first formed as well as NOW. I think she's still a member of the League, but not NOW. Back in the day, these women's groups simply didn't exist. They were the first. And my mom was a Women's Libber as they were called hehe

Gawd I love my mommy.

We got interested in them again when we looked for electoral reform (electoral college) after the 2000 Florida debacle. They are not always thought well of around here because of association with Civil Rights Era reforms. (Yeah, where I live the LWV is considered a bunch of radicals.)

200 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:28:16am

re: #193 rwdflynavy

So, like an LGF Party?
//

Pretty much except you actually get to see each other. I almost sometimes wish there was a way to do a ventrillo server so that people could actually talk to each other. One of the things I really enjoyed about WoW wasn't the gaming aspect as much as the witty repartee that happened with the group I played with.

LGF is my reasonable substitute for that since I don't play MORPGS anymore

201 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:28:41am

Well shiver my timbers, I just got two surprises:
1. Obama actually is going to fire McChrystal; and,
2. We just had a 5.5 earthquake in Southern Ontario, which is almost unheard of in these parts.
I guess the earthquake was more of a shock, but not by much.
BTW does anyone know whether his resignation was accepted or he was fired, and whether it makes any difference?

202 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:28:50am

re: #197 marjoriemoon

OMG is that funny. What does the ODS stand for? Official Driver's ???

Btw, you didn't have to retake your picture and all that? I had to and pass an eye test. I also had to bring DNA, blood, hair and urine samples

(I kid... although at the time, that's what it felt like.)

Office of Drivers Services

203 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:28:58am

re: #194 erraticsphinx

Would I like WoT if I liked A Song of Ice and Fire?

I have the whole summer to read stuff.

Well, if you start WoT now, you might be able to get caught up by the end of summer. I like both series.

204 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:29:09am

re: #192 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Any candidates for our Bill Mauldin? Can't help but wonder what Willie and Joe would think of all this mess.

Doonesbury.

205 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:30:09am

re: #189 goddamnedfrank

I wish more bosses were aware of the amount of productivity they cost their companies in time spent causing their employees to roll their eyes and then mark the exits.

During the Clinton/Obama campaign, he'd walk by my desk, fists pumping air shouting, "Go Hillary! She's my girl!" (I was a Hillary supporter.) I finally asked him what that was all about. I know he doesn't like her! Of course, he figured McCain would beat the pantsuit off her so he wanted her to win. Obama, he was scared about.

206 sffilk  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:30:24am

re: #8 _RememberTonyC

Petraeus replaces McChrystal

Is that going to be a good thing?

207 RadicalModerate  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:30:31am

BTW, that Wimbledon match mentioned downstairs tied at 29 games apiece a little while back?

... they're at 46-46 now. Match is closing in on EIGHT AND ONE HALF HOURS.

208 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:30:49am

re: #197 marjoriemoon

When I got my license renewed this year, the clerk told everyone waiting in line "Anyone renewing a Maryland driver's license can step over here. Make sure you have your expired license with you."

I told her mine wasn't expired, and she got pretty testy with me. I really wasn't sure if she meant only people with expired licenses or everyone renewing. The guy in line next to me was also not sure. We exchaned a smile and eye roll over that.

209 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:30:50am

re: #197 marjoriemoon

OMG is that funny. What does the ODS stand for? Official Driver's ???

Btw, you didn't have to retake your picture and all that? I had to and pass an eye test. I also had to bring DNA, blood, hair and urine samples

(I kid... although at the time, that's what it felt like.)

I had to have my picture taken, but they told me not to smile, apparently so that my picture would look appropriately menacing if I was arrested for terrorism or something.

210 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:32:23am

Is it just me, or does the general's name sound made-up?

Like someone took a hillbilly grrrl's name with a cute spelling and slapped a Scottish "Mac" on it to make a surname.

A brand of Highland bottled water for upjumped Scots yuppies?

211 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:32:25am

OH FOR FUCKS SAKE!

A BP Submersible drone has apparently crashed and made the oil flow into the Gulf WORSE.

Problem With Cap Causes More Oil to Gush in Gulf

"a remote-controlled submersible operating a mile beneath the surface had most likely bumped a vent and compromised the system. Live video from the seafloor showed oil and gas storming out of the well unrestricted."

212 EdDantes  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:33:15am

re: #201 Spare O'Lake

I'm in California. We don't recognize 5.5 as an earthquake. :)

213 lawhawk  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:33:28am

re: #198 Joo-LiZ

Well, those kinds of quakes aren't common to Ontario and the Eastern US - particularly upstate NY, but do happen from time to time.

214 blueraven  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:35:54am

re: #201 Spare O'Lake

Well shiver my timbers, I just got two surprises:
1. Obama actually is going to fire McChrystal; and,
2. We just had a 5.5 earthquake in Southern Ontario, which is almost unheard of in these parts.
I guess the earthquake was more of a shock, but not by much.
BTW does anyone know whether his resignation was accepted or he was fired, and whether it makes any difference?

Hope no one was injured in the earthquake!

Why is the McChrystal "firing" as you call it, such a shocker?

215 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:36:08am

re: #208 Mad Al-Jaffee

When I got my license renewed this year, the clerk told everyone waiting in line "Anyone renewing a Maryland driver's license can step over here. Make sure you have your expired license with you."

I told her mine wasn't expired, and she got pretty testy with me. I really wasn't sure if she meant only people with expired licenses or everyone renewing. The guy in line next to me was also not sure. We exchaned a smile and eye roll over that.

It took me 3 tries. First, I didn't pass the eye test. Then they told me to return w/o an appt and bring some paperwork they gave me, but when I did they said they needed different paperwork and I needed an appt.

The third time, I was told I needed not just the expired license, but an original birth certificate, visa or green card PLUS two pieces of snail mail with my address. No one in the line brought any of that crap because no notices were sent that you needed it. I watched as they turned away dozens of people.

Miami, FL is not a small town either.

216 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:37:35am

re: #194 erraticsphinx

Would I like WoT if I liked A Song of Ice and Fire?

I have the whole summer to read stuff.

I really enjoyed both. Very different reads, but give it a shot. WOT drags on, but there is so much detail and so many character plotlines and the characters themselves are really great.

I hate the Darryl K. Sweet cover art, but as they say, you shouldn't judge a book by its...well, you know...

217 What, me worry?  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:38:42am

re: #200 PT Barnum

Pretty much except you actually get to see each other. I almost sometimes wish there was a way to do a ventrillo server so that people could actually talk to each other. One of the things I really enjoyed about WoW wasn't the gaming aspect as much as the witty repartee that happened with the group I played with.

LGF is my reasonable substitute for that since I don't play MORPGS anymore

Get out. What server did you play on? I've met so many gamer geeks here, we should make a guild.

218 Mad Al-Jaffee  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:38:44am

re: #215 marjoriemoon

I just needed my license and had to pass the eye test. No problems at all. And I renewed my car registration online.

219 tnguitarist  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:38:45am

re: #209 PT Barnum

I had to have my picture taken, but they told me not to smile, apparently so that my picture would look appropriately menacing if I was arrested for terrorism or something.

My daughter asked, "Why do you look like you're mad in you driver's license picture?". I said, "Because that's how I'm gonna look when they pull me over".

220 Radical Rafe  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:38:50am

I predice Rolling Stone magazine will now have a grossly inflated sense of self-importance...

221 Nadnerb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:38:57am

Since I have a day off, and some much needed blog-time, I checked out Blackfive. I listened to an above referenced clip of Michael Yon on the Liddy show with a total peckerhead called Jim Hanson. It is beyond insane the way the Blackfive guy goes after him, ad hominem style, calling him a chicken hawk, and deriding him as a 'mere' reporter. Better toe the line with these Blackfive folks who'd happily welcome an armed rebellion. Off the rails is the phrase of the day...

222 Radical Rafe  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:39:06am

PIMF

predict

223 teh flowah  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:40:47am

It's true that what McChrystal said was pretty egregious and unacceptable, but... too many articles I read on the issue questioned whether it would be a smart move to just have him gone. If anyone can take over the mission in Afghanistan its Petraeus, but, I really hope this hasn't shot the mission there in the foot.

Some sort of public apology maybe.

Oh well, here's hoping.

224 erraticsphinx  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:40:53am

re: #216 rwdflynavy

Thanks. They're going on my list.

225 simoom  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:40:56am

re: #138 rwmofo

The General was obviously wrong, but imagine if George Bush were President. McChrystal the "whistelblower" would be a hero to ABC/NBC/CBS/MSNBC/NY Times and primed for a book deal.

What was he supposed to have been whistle-blowing on though? That Jim Jones is a clown? That having to eat dinner with a NATO ally was f'ing "gay"? McChrystal won the internal AfPak review strategy debate. A version of his policy was implemented and he signed off on it (including the time table).

This wasn't a case of whistle-blowing, it was just, literally, barroom trash-talking. The part of the article painting the COIN strategy as doomed to fail wasn't McChrystal's narrative, it was Rolling Stone's (and if his team had done their done their homework on previous RS exposés they could have seen it coming).

226 Kragar  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:41:14am

re: #216 rwdflynavy

I really enjoyed both. Very different reads, but give it a shot. WOT drags on, but there is so much detail and so many character plotlines and the characters themselves are really great.

I hate the Darryl K. Sweet cover art, but as they say, you shouldn't judge a book by its...well, you know...

Oh come on, there is so much going on back and forth and implied that you have to read between the lines and catch all the threads to put them together. People who know what to look for could already see the return of the Seanchan just from one line in book 3. I love all the little things there to try and catch.

227 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:42:58am

re: #223 teh flowah

It's true that what McChrystal said was pretty egregious and unacceptable, but... too many articles I read on the issue questioned whether it would be a smart move to just have him gone. If anyone can take over the mission in Afghanistan its Petraeus, but, I really hope this hasn't shot the mission there in the foot.

Some sort of public apology maybe.

Oh well, here's hoping.

I'm sure Yon's been talked about a lot this thread (haven't looked it over), but Yon thinks McChrystal's handling of the war is garbage, and wants someone new to come in. (He mentioned Mattis would probably be good)

228 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:43:48am

re: #100 iceweasel

Right-- I know that about you. I definitely didn't have you in mind when I mentioned ODS sufferers and political opportunists blaming him, btw. I wasn't even thinking about any posters here so much as I was the gasbags and loons in right wing media/politics.

(also some assorted cranks on the left)


thanks ..... I try to be a team player .... and if I'm going to criticize the Prez when I disagree, I am also going to give him credit when I feel he does well.

229 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:44:33am

re: #219 tnguitarist

My daughter asked, "Why do you look like you're mad in you driver's license picture?". I said, "Because that's how I'm gonna look when they pull me over".

After a year in Israel, I was required to get a local license, or an International. Those can only be obtained in a country you are not driving in, so I got one on a training trip back to the States. I wound up in a AAA office at 7:00 AM, after a totally-screwed up 50-hour trip back. I can repel zombies with my license photo.

230 Neutral President  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:46:07am

re: #131 marjoriemoon

My ultra conservative, rightwing boss came in this morning saying that McCrystal's men are now planning a military coup and it's been "a long time coming". The sick thing about it, he was almost salivating as if he'd start it himself if he could.

I long for a time back when people remembered that you don't discuss politics or religion in most settings... especially the work place.

I've noticed people who are really partisan seem to assume everyone around them is on the same page with them too and tend to run their mouth incessantly at awkward times. I'm getting really tired of trying to come up with quick conversation changers when I notice a moonbat or wingnut going off and not noticing or caring that everyone around them looks totally uncomfortable or pissed.

231 Nervous Norvous  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:46:21am

re: #217 marjoriemoon

Get out. What server did you play on? I've met so many gamer geeks here, we should make a guild.

To tell the truth I don't remember the server name, as it's been a couple of years ago now.

Funny story, though

I was playing and my wife came in. I told the group "hey my wife just walked in" and they turned toward my character and waved, which made it look like they were waving at her. The funny thing was She waved back

232 Daniel Ballard  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:50:15am

re: #201 Spare O'Lake

He's a goner. Shopping for a network and a fishing pole.

233 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 11:54:32am

I'm reading that Petraeus has been placed in charge of Afghanistan now

234 Teh Flowah  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 12:11:07pm

re: #227 Joo-LiZ

That's reassuring. Yon provides a unique perspective, having been on the ground. He never provided the falsely and unjustified optimism that would later shatter to reality. I can trust his judgment.


We can only hope that this move works out.

235 OldnGrumpy  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 1:06:27pm

CNN is reporting that McChrystal has resigned.

Does that mean that he resigned his commission?

I know that any officer, in any service,at any time, can resign his commission and return to civilian life.

236 Right Brain  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 1:07:02pm

An inventive and successful General with 34 years in the military is fired by a detached jerk who never served a day in his life.

President Clinton also had a roque general, considerably more rogue actually, but chose to ignore it. We all knew that Obama is thin skinned and cannot imagine that some people think poorly of him. Clinton was smarter, Obama will not survive this. He is barely surviving the oil spill with 41% approval.

Here's betting in a week it drops into the 30's.

237 OldnGrumpy  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 1:10:35pm

ooooops there are certain circumstances when officers are required to serve a certain period before they can resign i.e. West Point grads and ROTC grads

238 Fozzie Bear  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 1:43:20pm

re: #236 Right Brain

An inventive and successful General with 34 years in the military is fired by a detached jerk who never served a day in his life.

President Clinton also had a roque general, considerably more rogue actually, but chose to ignore it. We all knew that Obama is thin skinned and cannot imagine that some people think poorly of him. Clinton was smarter, Obama will not survive this. He is barely surviving the oil spill with 41% approval.

Here's betting in a week it drops into the 30's.

Thank you for proving my earlier point that we have a few morons here.

re: #99 Fozzie Bear

Well, there are plenty of people, even posters here, who "don't see what the big deal is" about what McCrystal said. It's astounding.

239 tradewind  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 2:09:57pm

re: #111 Charles
You can't blame them.... after all, sending Huntsman to China worked out well..../

240 tradewind  Wed, Jun 23, 2010 2:14:44pm

re: #220 Radical Rafe
Whaddya mean ' will have '?
That ship sailed long ago.
Regardless, the General should have been especially careful to guard against loose-lip syndrome.


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