New Peace Talks Imminent

Apparently we’re on the brink of peace in the Middle East: U.S. officials: Abbas announcement imminent, details not yet finalized.

Excuse me if I don’t break out the champagne just yet.

U.S. officials told Jewish community leaders on a private conference call this afternoon that they believe Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is on the verge of joining Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in accepting an invitation to resume peace talks.

But the officials�acknowledged that details of the talks have yet to be finalized, plans for a presidential visit to the region remain unclear, and hopes of drawing other Arab leaders and Hamas into the process ride on the momentum of the talks themselves.

“The sun has now set and [Abbas] is conducting what is going to be one final round of consultations and we expect a positive announcement to come quite soon after he finishes,” said deputy special envoy David Hale, attributing delay in the Abbas announcement to the Ramadan holiday.

Hale acknowledged, however, that�details of the talks�— announced to great fanfare today�— have yet to be finalized.

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349 comments

1 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 5:59:51pm

Ooh! Piss talks!

Can we get a preemptive excision from the PA charter of those tasty bits calling for the destruction of Israel? 'Cuz you know, that has never happened yet, despite the blind faith of various moonbats that it has.

2 Kragar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:00:04pm

second verse same as the first

3 abolitionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:01:04pm

Abbas doesn't speak for Hamas, presumably.

4 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:01:44pm

Wonderful. And the US government leaders will continue their delusional chase for the brass ring in the belief that their particular administration/party will be the one to bring final and lasting peace to the Middle East.

I wish a more realistic viewpoint would sink in that while some influence on policy can be attempted the real solution is totally dependent on the residents of those lands and the governments they elect and/or tolerate to administer those lands.

5 Kragar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:03:29pm

Luckily, there are no other powder kegs in the region waiting to go off and destabilize the situation.

Lebanon Braces for Judgment Day

On the eve of the judgment, with everyone preparing to finger Hezbollah for the crime, Lebanon is once again bracing for a political firestorm that could quickly turn violent. The irony is that Rafiq Hariri’s son, Saad Hariri, is now the man who has to keep the lid on the simmering pot.

Unfortunately, this is going to be exceedingly difficult for the younger Hariri to accomplish. He is in a tough position regardless of who is blamed for his father’s murder.

Prime Minister Hariri can either put his firm weight and political support behind the commission’s ruling, making his position known to the world but hurt his appeal with the majority of the Lebanese population (who happen to be Shī’ah and highly supportive of Hezbollah as a social organization). Or he could endorse Hezbollah’s position and denounce the results. He may also choose to order the creation of a new independent commission aiming to uncovering evidence that may have been previously overlooked by the original investigation. This move, however, would hurt him with the United States and Israel at a time when Lebanon is already experiencing a harsh rebuke over the Israeli border incident.

So what can Hariri do?

So far, he’s been trying to straddle both sides by largely keeping his mouth shut and letting the tribunal do its job. This is what Hariri is probably going to do until a verdict is reached.

If Hezbollah isn’t fingered, Hariri has dodged a bullet. But if Hezbollah is in fact implicated, then Hariri may choose to call another investigation in order to keep a potentially violent situation from getting out of control. The Lebanese Government’s main concern is to limit a potential civil war between Sunnis and Shiites. The best way to do that is to divert pressure to an outside actor.

Gee, I wonder who in the region they could deflect the blame onto?

6 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:09:24pm

re: #3 abolitionist

Abbas doesn't speak for Hamas, presumably.

Well, the West Bank is a lot more modern than Gaza. It's actually become a bit of a party place.

The barrier walls here are certainly intimidating, and Ramallah doesn’t have the holy mystique of Bethlehem, but this city on the West Bank has become a destination for thousands of young North Americans, Europeans and offspring of the Palestinian elite. Some work for locally based non-governmental organizations or new businesses; others are visiting. Many of the hot spots are set in restored Ottoman buildings, streamlined Art Deco houses that date from the British mandate, or atop new high-rises. Some residents say the scene is an undiscovered challenge to what Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Amman, Jordan — each a few miles but a psychological world away — offer young people in the Middle East.

I think if you ask most Israelis, they prefer the West Bank to Gaza.

7 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:09:34pm

Que the infitada!

8 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:10:17pm

Things here still aren't working right for me. This is the only place I'm having a problem with.

9 Kragar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:11:47pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

Que the infitada!

Hello Mudda,
Hello Fadda,
I've declared
The Intafada

10 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:12:57pm

Too bad we can't settle our international differences by putting our leaders in the ring with their opponents. Mano a mano.

11 celticdragon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:13:36pm

The moment anything successful appears on the negotiation horizon, Hamas or a splinter group will blow up 50 people and scupper the damn process...again. They made an art form of it back in the 90's.

As long as the most violent and psychopathic people in the area have effective veto control over any agreement, this is simply killing time to save face. We all know this isn't going anywhere.

12 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:13:49pm

As long as Netanyahu's involved, I wouldn't hold out much hope. But something is sure better than nothing.

13 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:14:03pm

re: #9 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hello Mudda,
Hello Fadda,
I've declared
The Intafada

I'll build a New York mosque and name it Cordaba.
/Almost fits

14 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:15:31pm

re: #8 Cannadian Club Akbar

Things here still aren't working right for me. This is the only place I'm having a problem with.

By not working right, what do you mean?

15 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:15:42pm

Hamas has already rejected the talks -

"[It] is a new attempt to exert trickery against the Palestinian people," Hamas spokesman, Sami Abu Zuhri, told Xinhua.

Rotating title? "a new attempt to exert trickery "

16 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:16:30pm

re: #15 karmic_inquisitor

Hamas has already rejected the talks -


Rotating title? "a new attempt to exert trickery "

It's got my nomination.

17 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:16:44pm

I'm skeptical like Charles, but I always hold out for hope, as small as it may be.

If the territories could end up looking like Dubai, and there really is no reason they couldn't, that would be enough for Israel. That doesn't mean the anti-Semitism is going away or the radical ideology, but it would be a peace we all could live with.

18 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:16:47pm

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

By not working right, what do you mean?

No preview and can't see my post until I reload.

19 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:16:59pm

re: #12 elbruce

As long as Netanyahu's the Middle East is involved, I wouldn't hold out much hope. But something is sure better than nothing.

FTFY

20 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:17:56pm

re: #12 elbruce

As long as Netanyahu's involved, I wouldn't hold out much hope. But something is sure better than nothing.

What's that supposed to mean?

21 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:18:29pm

Hope?

Up with Dope, Down with Hope.

That is my new motto.

22 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:18:57pm

Semi ot: Daily Life has been running these pics a couple time a week for the past month....
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

Palestinian women dig a hole to build a pool at a farm, part of a project implemented by the Agricultural Union of Agricultural Work Committees funded by the European Union, in Deir al-Balah, in the centre of the Gaza Strip, on August 10, 2010.


[Link: www.daylife.com...]

Palestinian Hamas policemen burn in Gaza City on August 10, 2010 large quantities of illegal narcotics, alcohol and sexual enhancing products found in the Gaza Strip.

I haven't spotted any common landmarks but I can't help but speculate everytime I see the pics.

23 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:19:27pm

re: #20 Varek Raith

What's that supposed to mean?

Maybe he thinks strong leaders make shitty bargainers?

24 Kragar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:19:30pm

re: #12 elbruce

As long as Netanyahu's involved, I wouldn't hold out much hope. But something is sure better than nothing.

Yes, because we know the long standing line of Israeli PMs who have blown peace deals by aggravating the Palis by doing such outrageous things like breathing and walking around.

25 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:19:46pm

re: #21 karmic_inquisitor

Hope?

Up with Dope, Down with Hope.

That is my new motto.

*Cheetos*

26 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:20:23pm

I'm a bit cynical on both sides of this. To me, the whole thing is in Black and Gray morality territory. I do hope that the Palestinians can get a whole un-interupted territory out of this. I know this might not be popular to say, but just my two cents.

I just got back to OU. Holy Hell is it hot here. I don't think it was this hot last year.

27 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:20:52pm

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

No preview and can't see my post until I reload.

I don't know. Once in a blue moon, I find that some after visiting a web site in another tab, some feature or small thing goes wrong with my LGF tab. I don't know a lot about so of the client side code snippets that Charles send along with a LGF page, but I have wondered what happens if two different web sites sends a programatic feature to you, will one process possibly step on another...

I sort of know what I am saying, but it may sound vague to you, I don't know how else to describe it.

If Charles is monitoring, maybe he can take what I am saying and make sense of it.

28 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:20:57pm

re: #22 Killgore Trout

burn in Gaza City on August 10, 2010 large quantities of illegal narcotics, alcohol and sexual enhancing products found in the Gaza Strip

They burned the VIAGRA?

29 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:21:13pm

re: #26 ProLifeLiberal

I'm a bit cynical on both sides of this. To me, the whole thing is in Black and Gray morality territory. I do hope that the Palestinians can get a whole un-interupted territory out of this. I know this might not be popular to say, but just my two cents.

I just got back to OU. Holy Hell is it hot here. I don't think it was this hot last year.

Huh?
You do know what that would entail, yes?
:/

30 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:21:44pm

re: #26 ProLifeLiberal

I'm a bit cynical on both sides of this. To me, the whole thing is in Black and Gray morality territory. I do hope that the Palestinians can get a whole un-interupted territory out of this. I know this might not be popular to say, but just my two cents.

I just got back to OU. Holy Hell is it hot here. I don't think it was this hot last year.

Not until Hamas and its ilk are dust.

31 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:22:08pm

re: #28 MandyManners

They burned the VIAGRA?

There must be some sort of boner fatwa.

32 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:22:15pm

re: #29 Varek Raith

Huh?
You do know what that would entail, yes?
:/

Oh come on... let's give it to them... it's theirs to start with...
///

33 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:23:13pm

And, let's not forget that the P.A. repeatedly incites their population.

At least with Hamas, the bastards are in-your-face about their desire to kill Jews.

34 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:23:39pm

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

No preview and can't see my post until I reload.

Format C:

It's the only way to be sure.

///

35 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:23:47pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

There must be some sort of boner fatwa.

*SHRIEKS*

ROFLMAO!

36 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:24:39pm

re: #28 MandyManners

They burned the VIAGRA?

Duffle bags full of it, it would appear.

Question - why didn't they form those sexual enhancing products in rings, set them on fire and have police cadets leap through them at graduation?

37 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:26:02pm

re: #33 MandyManners

And, let's not forget that the P.A. repeatedly incites their population.

At least with Hamas, the bastards are in-your-face about their desire to kill Jews.

If you haven't already, just check out the Palestinian Media Watch site.

Go down to the PMW bulletins to get a taste of the pro-terrorist rhetoric that the PA feeds to its people.

38 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:26:39pm

re: #36 karmic_inquisitor

Duffle bags full of it, it would appear.

Question - why didn't they form those sexual enhancing products in rings, set them on fire and have police cadets leap through them at graduation?

Barbarians.

39 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:26:44pm

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

No preview and can't see my post until I reload.

Still funky? Does Firefox have an upgrade you haven't installed?

40 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:26:52pm

re: #20 Varek Raith

What's that supposed to mean?

re: #23 MandyManners

Maybe he thinks strong leaders make shitty bargainers?

That's one way of putting it. Another is that Netanyahu historically refuses to compromise on anything, even measures that he has agreed to in the past. There's not much point in trying to negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate.

Not to say that the other side is perfect either; but their problem seems to be less a complete unwillingness to compromise, but the organizational inability to fulfill their promises.

41 swamprat  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:27:16pm

re: #26 ProLifeLiberal

I'm a bit cynical on both sides of this. To me, the whole thing is in Black and Gray morality territory. I do hope that the Palestinians can get a whole un-interupted territory out of this. I know this might not be popular to say, but just my two cents.

I just got back to OU. Holy Hell is it hot here. I don't think it was this hot last year.

Yes! End the siege! Free the Palestinians! Stop the blockade that starves the Innocent! Give them some land of their own. Egypt must be held accountable!

What, you forgot they had other borders?

42 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:28:20pm

re: #30 MandyManners

It took 30 years for the IRA to moderate. And frankly, I've heard about a lot of stories that go against the idea Israel has been completely innocent of all wrong-doing. Like the issue of wells in the West Bank.

43 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:28:37pm

re: #40 elbruce

re: #23 MandyManners

That's one way of putting it. Another is that Netanyahu historically refuses to compromise on anything, even measures that he has agreed to in the past. There's not much point in trying to negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate.

Not to say that the other side is perfect either; but their problem seems to be less a complete unwillingness to compromise, but the organizational inability to fulfill their promises.

He gave away Hebron didn't he? I mean, that wasn't a good thing, but it could explain why he's gone the other way.

I don't believe in land for peace anyway.

44 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:28:58pm

re: #40 elbruce

re: #23 MandyManners


That's one way of putting it. Another is that Netanyahu historically refuses to compromise on anything, even measures that he has agreed to in the past. There's not much point in trying to negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate.

Not to say that the other side is perfect either; but their problem seems to be less a complete unwillingness to compromise, but the organizational inability to fulfill their promises.

Please show me how having in their charter the demand that Israel cease to exist is anything BUT a complete unwillingness to compromise. Link?

45 Varek Raith  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:29:02pm

D'oh!

46 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:29:29pm

re: #42 ProLifeLiberal

It took 30 years for the IRA to moderate. And frankly, I've heard about a lot of stories that go against the idea Israel has been completely innocent of all wrong-doing. Like the issue of wells in the West Bank.

Um... you want to be a little more specific?

47 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:29:33pm

re: #42 ProLifeLiberal

It took 30 years for the IRA to moderate. And frankly, I've heard about a lot of stories that go against the idea Israel has been completely innocent of all wrong-doing. Like the issue of wells in the West Bank.

Has anyone said that the Israelis are perfect?!

48 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:29:51pm

re: #41 swamprat

I never mentioned the Gaza Strip. Hamas must be shown that their hellish way of doing things brings nothing. Ignore them for the time being, politically speaking.

49 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:30:16pm

re: #42 ProLifeLiberal

It took 30 years for the IRA to moderate. And frankly, I've heard about a lot of stories that go against the idea Israel has been completely innocent of all wrong-doing. Like the issue of wells in the West Bank.

This shit has been going on for a lot longer than 30 years.

50 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:30:38pm

re: #37 MandyManners

If you haven't already, just check out the Palestinian Media Watch site.

OK.

On the ax that destroys the Star of David is the word: "Boycott!" in the imperative tense. Youth are invited to watch the PA TV program calling for a boycott of Israel. In the program the host acknowledges that they are aware that the boycott is illegal but they have chosen to ignore this

The boycott is what now? I've never heard of a boycott being "illegal" in my life, except perhaps in former Soviet dictatorships. How do you force someone to not not buy something?

In any case, I'm usually pretty skeptical of any site whose name ends with "watch."

51 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:31:42pm

re: #48 ProLifeLiberal

I never mentioned the Gaza Strip. Hamas must be shown that their hellish way of doing things brings nothing. Ignore them for the time being, politically speaking.

But, Abu Abbas is basically the same as Ismail Haniyeh, just in a better suit.

52 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:32:20pm

So, I keep reading that Imam Rauf tapes are incoming....
Can't wait.

53 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:34:01pm

re: #50 elbruce

OK.


The boycott is what now? I've never heard of a boycott being "illegal" in my life, except perhaps in former Soviet dictatorships. How do you force someone to not not buy something?

In any case, I'm usually pretty skeptical of any site whose name ends with "watch."

Where did I say boycotting is illegal? I'm not talking about the BDS. I'm talking about the demonization of Israelis by the PA government.

Why don't you read more instead of dismissing it out of hand? It painstakingly shows how the PA categorically demonizes the Israelis.

54 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:34:16pm

re: #44 MandyManners

Please show me how having in their charter the demand that Israel cease to exist is anything BUT a complete unwillingness to compromise. Link?

Link:

In August 1993, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin insisted on changes to the Charter as part of the Oslo Accords. Following Yasser Arafat's commitment to "submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval" the changes to the Charter confirming that "those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid" in the September 9, 1993 letters of mutual recognition, the PNC met in Gaza and voted on 24 April 1996. The decision was adopted by a vote of: 504 in favor, 54 against, and 14 abstentions.

Looks like a willingness to compromise to me.

55 Kragar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:34:32pm

Saying Netanyahu can't be trusted because the Israelis have been "less than perfect" is beyond ridiculous.

56 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:35:03pm

re: #50 elbruce

OK.


The boycott is what now? I've never heard of a boycott being "illegal" in my life, except perhaps in former Soviet dictatorships. How do you force someone to not not buy something?

In any case, I'm usually pretty skeptical of any site whose name ends with "watch."

BTW, here is the BDS site. Your text to link...

57 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:35:32pm

test

58 Stonemason  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:35:34pm

re: #40 elbruce

re: #23 MandyManners

That's one way of putting it. Another is that Netanyahu historically refuses to compromise on anything, even measures that he has agreed to in the past. There's not much point in trying to negotiate with someone who refuses to negotiate.

Not to say that the other side is perfect either; but their problem seems to be less a complete unwillingness to compromise, but the organizational inability to fulfill their promises.

Well, that and their desire to kill all the Jews...

59 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:35:54pm

re: #55 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Saying Netanyahu can't be trusted because the Israelis have been "less than perfect" is beyond ridiculous.

Quite Concur.

60 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:35:54pm

re: #54 elbruce

Link:


Looks like a willingness to compromise to me.

What has happened since 1993 that could possibly have hardened the Isreali willingness to compromise? Hmmm?

61 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:36:37pm

re: #39 marjoriemoon

Still funky? Does Firefox have an upgrade you haven't installed?

I love me some marjoriemoon. Thank you.:)

62 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:36:45pm

I will let every people to have piss..

63 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:36:50pm

re: #53 MandyManners

Why don't you read more instead of dismissing it out of hand? It painstakingly shows how the PA categorically demonizes the Israelis.

Oh, I'm plenty aware of it, trust me. They do really need to knock it off if they ever do want peace. But speech isn't as bad as action, and I tend to cut more slack to the weaker party in any conflict, in terms of who I choose to wag my finger at more. Hopefully such propaganda will be one of the things on the table for negotiation.

64 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:36:57pm

re: #57 Cannadian Club Akbar

test

What's up?

65 spikester  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:37:10pm

re: #51 MandyManners

I've poked around this page for a few hrs
You may be the last lgf voice of descent

all you dingbats be sure to hit my - sign

66 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:37:29pm

re: #64 HoosierHoops

What's up?

Had a problem with LGF. All good now.

67 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:38:14pm

re: #63 elbruce

Oh, I'm plenty aware of it, trust me. They do really need to knock it off if they ever do want peace. But speech isn't as bad as action, and I tend to cut more slack to the weaker party in any conflict, in terms of who I choose to wag my finger at more. Hopefully such propaganda will be one of the things on the table for negotiation.

What in the world informs attitude other than speech? What in the world informs action other than attitude?

Oh, I give up.

68 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:38:52pm

re: #65 spikester

I've poked around this page for a few hrs
You may be the last lgf voice of descent

all you dingbats be sure to hit my - sign

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

69 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:38:59pm

re: #65 spikester

I've poked around this page for a few hrs
You may be the last lgf voice of descent

all you dingbats be sure to hit my - sign

Shut yo' mouth!!!

(Long time, no see. How's it going?)

70 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:39:02pm

re: #65 spikester

I've poked around this page for a few hrs
You may be the last lgf voice of descent

all you dingbats be sure to hit my - sign

Hey cake face... I resent you calling Mandy the last voice of descent... you evidently don't hang around much... which is probably to our benefit.

71 swamprat  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:39:09pm

re: #65 spikester

Stick around, spikey.

72 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:39:19pm

re: #68 JasonA

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Yeah, typos suck.

73 Tumulus11  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:39:25pm

. Hamas' incineration of the ceremonial dove was simply a cultural misunderstanding. //

74 jordash1212  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:39:32pm
Excuse me if I don’t break out the champagne just yet.

While I don't blame you for being reluctant to foresee a great peace spread throughout the Middle East, you must admit that any progress is good progress when it comes to Palestinians and Israelis sitting down for direct talks.

However, I will admit that between Abu Mazen's corruption and two-faced politics and Israel's hawkish coalition, I won't expect to be drinking that champagne anytime soon either. It'll most likely end with a debate over UNSCR 242.

75 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:39:43pm

re: #66 Cannadian Club Akbar

Had a problem with LGF. All good now.

It's halftime on Fox Football tonight..
Now I have to scan the thread to kick somebodies ass...
*wink* Hot today in Indiana.. 94...Wimps...

76 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:39:44pm

re: #68 JasonA

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

I used it too... was copying from the comment... stupid me.

77 spikester  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:39:46pm

do you know what I mint?
re: #68 JasonA

78 Kragar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:40:25pm

re: #73 Tumulus11

. Hamas' incineration of the ceremonial dove was simply a cultural misunderstanding. //

AK AK AK, AK AK AK AK!

79 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:40:25pm

I don't know spikester all that well, but she/he doesn't seem determined to track pig shit onto the carpet as Adam Khan was the other morning.

80 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:40:38pm

re: #75 HoosierHoops

It's halftime on Fox Football tonight..
Now I have to scan the thread to kick somebodies ass...
*wink* Hot today in Indiana.. 94...Wimps...

Thanks. Didn't know there was any on.

81 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:40:40pm

more trouble out of Lebanon:

Israel's Barak calls planned flotilla a 'provocation'

Jerusalem (CNN) -- Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak said Friday a planned Gaza-bound aid flotilla from Lebanon "has nothing to do with humanitarian aid and is an act of hostile provocation."

The flotilla, which is expected to leave Sunday or Monday, comes nearly three months after a deadly confrontation between Israeli commandos and activists on a ship in an aid flotilla, the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara. Nine Turkish nationals, including one with a dual U.S. citizenship, were killed.

"This action is meant to aid a terror organization whose purpose is to kill Israeli civilians," Barak said in a statement issued by the Israel Defense Forces.

Barak asked the Lebanese government to stop the flotilla leaving its territory. Israel has been blockading the Palestinian territory of Gaza to prevent weapons being smuggled to militants there. Critics of the move say the policy has caused a humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

The IDF statement says that Israel allows humanitarian aid into Gaza and will allow the flotilla to enter the Israeli port of Ashdod or travel to Egypt.

Barak asked those in the international community with influence in Lebanon to "stop this provocative act." But he said if the flotilla insists on arriving in Gaza, Israel will stop it and force it to its port in Ashdod.

Gabriela Shalev, Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, expressed her "deeply troubling" concerns about the planned flotilla in a letter to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon on Friday.

She said people "with suspected ties to the Hezbollah terrorist organization" announced the flotilla voyage, which she reiterated was a provocation and that Israel reserves the right to prevent the ships from breaking its blockade.

"The organizers -- similar to previous attempts by others -- seek to incite a confrontation and raise tension in our region."

She also said "goods that are not weapons or materiel for war-like purposes are now entering the Gaza Strip through appropriate mechanisms that ensure their delivery as well as their civilian nature."

Speaking with media Thursday from the Lebanese coastal city of Tripoli, flotilla organizer Samar al Hajj said dozens of female activists from Europe, Egypt, Bahrain and India will set sail carrying cancer medication for women and children in addition to diapers, books, and toys.

The activists are planning to depart Lebanon on the Safinat Mariam, a boat named after the Virgin Mary.

Expected to join the Mariam is another vessel sponsored by the Free Gaza Movement and a group called Journalists Without Borders.

SNIP (emphasis mine)

Absolutely sick. Invoking Mary's name as a cover for their Jew-hate. The people who devised that blasphemy must repent of it and their hate, or they will surely go to Hell.

82 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:40:50pm

re: #65 spikester

I've poked around this page for a few hrs
You may be the last lgf voice of descent

all you dingbats be sure to hit my - sign

You, sir, are an idiot.

83 swamprat  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:40:51pm

There's a "going down" joke here, but I will voice my dissent about using it.

84 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:41:06pm

re: #46 marjoriemoon

I'm refering to some issues I have heard about with the fact that many wells drilled by Israel have undercut Palestinian wells, and the Palestinians I have heard are not allowed to drill deeper. I'm trying to find a good (but short) specific source, but only have a 154 page report from the World Bank. Frankly, I read both this Blog and the Daily Dish. A lot of things I've seen there have disturbed me.

85 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:41:06pm

re: #79 MandyManners

I don't know spikester all that well, but she/he doesn't seem determined to track pig shit onto the carpet as Adam Khan was the other morning.

Did King Douche get the stick?

86 Obdicut  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:41:22pm

re: #79 MandyManners

Really? Even though he just insulted every single other Lizard other than you?

87 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:41:35pm

re: #54 elbruce

Link:

Looks like a willingness to compromise to me.

Keep reading, my friend.

Reportedly, an internal PLO document from the Research and Thought Department of Fatah stated that changing the Covenant would have been "suicide for the PLO" and continued:

The text of the Palestinian National Covenant remains as it was and no changes whatsoever were made to it. This has caused it to be frozen, not annulled. The drafting of the new National Covenant will take into account the extent of Israeli fulfillment of its previous and coming obligations... evil and corrupt acts are expected from the Israeli side... The fact that the PNC did not hold a special session to make changes and amendments in the text of the National Covenant at this stage... was done to defend the new Covenant from being influenced by the current Israeli dictatorship.[18][19]

In January 1998, before the second Gaza meeting, Faisal Hamdi Husseini, head of the legal committee appointed by the PNC, stated "There has been a decision to change the Covenant. The change has not yet been carried out".[5][20]

PLO spokesman Marwan Kanafani was videotaped telling reporters, "This is not an amendment. This is a license to start a new charter."[6][7]

And of course, we know that Arafat walked out of the Camp David peace talks in 2000, turning his back on all of Gaza and 90% of the West Bank (yes, there IS a God).

88 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:41:59pm

Dishwasher is making strange noises after heap-bit fest. bbiasec

89 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:42:04pm

re: #52 JasonA

So, I keep reading that Imam Rauf tapes are incoming...
Can't wait.

I'm still waiting for Michelle Obama tapes from two years ago.

.

re: #67 MandyManners

What in the world informs attitude other than speech? What in the world informs action other than attitude?

I'm an American, so I tend to err on the side of free speech and come down on the side of actual violence. I do realize that one can lead to the other, but I also draw a distinction between them.

But of course, trying to keeps score of which side did more worse things when and why is pretty much guaranteed to perpetuate the conflict forever. Which is not something that I want, at least. So, sure. Israel is the good guys and all Palestinians are evil. Now can we haz peace talks?

90 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:42:10pm

re: #61 Cannadian Club Akbar

I love me some marjoriemoon. Thank you.:)

((hug hug kiss kiss))

You can thank me for not voting for Rick Scott :p

91 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:42:19pm

re: #72 MandyManners

Yeah, typos suck.

That's not a typo.
Tis is a typo.
Thiss is a typo.
This is typo.
Not knowing the correct word to use? That's not a typo.

92 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:43:09pm

re: #90 marjoriemoon

((hug hug kiss kiss))

You can thank me for not voting for Rick Scott :p

That guy needs to be in jail. Go Alex!!

93 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:43:39pm

re: #40 elbruce

FWIW, it isn't like Netanyahu had led anyone to think he'd compromise. His whole thing about "no preconditions" was repeated over and over and Abbas could not even get an agenda negotiated because the agenda would be a "precondition".

So the article snip that Charles posted ends with "Hale acknowledged, however, that details of the talks — announced to great fanfare today — have yet to be finalized."

Holding a summit or talks on Israel/Palestine is a sort of effort designed to create the illusion of progress when in fact it simply creates a new set of opportunities for the antagonists to antagonize each other. Both sides know this and go along with American presidents who have allowed themselves to be flattered into thinking that the peace can be won by said president's special skills or unique insights. Both sides know American aid flows when they agree to these get togethers and both sides know that, even if they wanted to do a deal, there are enough people with competing agendas back home to prevent any such thing from happening.

Which modern president has not fallen for this? Which one can point to discernible "progress" in the last 50 years? Progress in terms we would have signed up to in the beginning? The US keeps signing up for this and I see little that we get out of it except that Israel manages to survive.

94 swamprat  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:43:49pm

re: #86 Obdicut

Really? Even though he just insulted every single other Lizard other than you?

Well what better reason? Mandy's ok by him, but you're on your own.

95 spikester  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:44:01pm

re: #82 Charles

dont't know how to respond to that.

96 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:44:49pm

Hope it works or at least brings about a framework for future talks. Israel has already removed a section of the wall in Gilo, Jerusalem. Any movement forward would be welcome. History of course has made me rather cynical but there has to be resolution to this once and for all.

97 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:44:54pm

re: #89 elbruce

I'm still waiting for Michelle Obama tapes from two years ago.

.

re: #67 MandyManners

I'm an American, so I tend to err on the side of free speech and come down on the side of actual violence. I do realize that one can lead to the other, but I also draw a distinction between them.

But of course, trying to keeps score of which side did more worse things when and why is pretty much guaranteed to perpetuate the conflict forever. Which is not something that I want, at least. So, sure. Israel is the good guys and all Palestinians are evil. Now can we haz peace talks?

We can talk to them, but Israel shouldn't make any concessions unless the Palis are willing to do something of real substance and announce it in Arabic.

98 Ziggy Standard  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:44:58pm

A lot of people thought that peace would be impossible in Northern Ireland - entrenched territorial dispute with religious complications, negotiating with terrorists etc.

There is a difference between difficult and impossible.

99 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:45:14pm

re: #92 Cannadian Club Akbar

That guy needs to be in jail. Go Alex!!

Really?! Now, I love me some CCA!

100 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:45:18pm

re: #65 spikester

I've poked around this page for a few hrs
You may be the last lgf voice of descent

all you dingbats be sure to hit my - sign

What exactly does the word "descent" mean in your cretin's lexikon?

101 Kragar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:45:35pm

re: #95 spikester

dont't know how to respond to that.

Stunned silence perhaps?

102 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:45:54pm

re: #95 spikester

dont't know how to respond to that.

You aren't going to believe this.. But thousands of people knew that long before you did...

103 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:46:20pm

re: #65 spikester

Obvious troll is obvious.

104 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:46:22pm

re: #69 MandyManners

Shut yo' mouth!!!

(Long time, no see. How's it going?)

What does "descent" mean in your cretin's lexikon?

105 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:46:31pm

re: #102 HoosierHoops

You aren't going to believe this.. But thousands of people knew that long before you did...

Heh. Ding.

106 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:46:47pm

re: #93 karmic_inquisitor

Which one can point to discernible "progress" in the last 50 years? Progress in terms we would have signed up to in the beginning? The US keeps signing up for this and I see little that we get out of it except that Israel manages to survive.

There's Carter / Sadat / Begin. Israel and Egypt have been at peace ever since then, so that's one down, twenty-odd to go...

107 spikester  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:47:19pm

re: #69 MandyManners

not sure...
looks like the world has "moved on"

108 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:47:35pm

re: #106 elbruce

There's Carter / Sadat / Begin. Israel and Egypt have been at peace ever since then, so that's one down, twenty-odd to go...

That worked out well for Sadat, huh?
//

109 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:47:49pm

re: #95 spikester

dont't know how to respond to that.

Give it some time. I'm sure you'll "think" of something.

110 swamprat  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:48:01pm

re: #95 spikester

dont't know how to respond to that.


Witty rejoinder, not your forte?


Oh, come on. You come to bait, and THAT is your goad?


You are only half-witty, today?

111 jordash1212  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:48:40pm

re: #108 Cannadian Club Akbar

It's worked for Hosni Mubarak, though he's more of a fascist. It's also worked for the Jordanians.

112 Kragar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:49:01pm

re: #106 elbruce

There's Carter / Sadat / Begin. Israel and Egypt have been at peace ever since then, so that's one down, twenty-odd to go...

Of course Sadat was killed by his own people and we've been paying off protection money ever since then.

Plus the whole sword of damocles option Israel could hit Egypt with.

113 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:49:18pm

re: #103 Gus 802

Obvious troll is obvious.

Tamm SegdeH?

WeLCoMe!

114 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:49:37pm

re: #105 Cannadian Club Akbar

Heh. Ding.

Hi Bro! How the heck are you tonight?

115 Kragar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:49:50pm

re: #111 jordash1212

It's worked for Hosni Mubarak, though he's more of a fascist. It's also worked for the Jordanians.

The Jordanians have played off all sides in every war they've ever had in the region.

116 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:50:36pm

re: #113 iceweasel

Tamm SegdeH?

WeLCoMe!

Hello, Ice! How's Scotland?

117 jordash1212  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:50:47pm

re: #115 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That does not change the fact that they have normalized relations with the Israelis when every other country in the Middle East, save Egypt, does not.

118 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:51:05pm

re: #114 HoosierHoops

Hi Bro! How the heck are you tonight?

WIDE AWAKE!! Which means I'll be up until 4 AM. Which is fine. I need to clean house.:)

119 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:51:15pm

re: #108 Cannadian Club Akbar

That worked out well for Sadat, huh?

What is this, criticizing peace? So it cost him his life. I'd think that might be worth it to some people. Certainly if war is worth dying over, then peace certainly is too. The point remains that even him dying didn't end the peace, so it was more than just him who was invested in it.

120 swamprat  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:51:43pm

I feel like the scene in the "Emporor of The Pole" when the cop wanders into the hobo camp...and they offer him a swig of whiskey, and he don't drink...

121 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:51:50pm

re: #86 Obdicut

Really? Even though he just insulted every single other Lizard other than you?

i'm still not sure on that. have we figured out what a 'voice of descent' is yet?

admittedly, i'm working my way up a la SFZ, so i may yet encounter the answer to the riddle...

122 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:51:54pm

re: #96 Gus 802

Hope it works or at least brings about a framework for future talks. Israel has already removed a section of the wall in Gilo, Jerusalem. Any movement forward would be welcome. History of course has made me rather cynical but there has to be resolution to this once and for all.

No, there doesn't. If the Arab-Muslim world continues to demonize Israel, there doesn't have to be any resolution beyond continued defensive preparedness on the part of the Israelis.

And that, frankly, is what I expect to see for the rest of my lifetime.

Anything else would come as a shock, one that would make the fall of the Soviet Union seem like a preordained magic trick.

123 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:52:34pm

re: #119 elbruce

Go back and embrace the sarc tags.

124 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:52:45pm

re: #106 elbruce

There's Carter / Sadat / Begin. Israel and Egypt have been at peace ever since then, so that's one down, twenty-odd to go...

You call that peace?

and the price tag in terms of billions in aid annually? And we prop up a regime in Egypt that is still anti-Soviet (the selling point at the time) but pretty much is a corrupt dictatorship that has zero interest in seeing a pluralistic, democratic Middle East.

If we have 20 more in the pipeline we are all screwed.

125 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:52:58pm

re: #106 elbruce

There's Carter / Sadat / Begin. Israel and Egypt have been at peace ever since then, so that's one down, twenty-odd to go...

Egypt and Jordan are not the PLO. Israel has peaceful relations with the former and most of the Arab countries outside of some extremist factions (i.e. Hizbollah in Lebanon). If you don't know the difference, there's some serious history you're missing.

126 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:52:59pm

re: #122 Cato the Elder

No, there doesn't. If the Arab-Muslim world continues to demonize Israel, there doesn't have to be any resolution beyond continued defensive preparedness on the part of the Israelis.

And that, frankly, is what I expect to see for the rest of my lifetime.

Anything else would come as a shock, one that would make the fall of the Soviet Union seem like a preordained magic trick.

Agreed. Until the incitement stops, no peace is possible.

127 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:53:00pm

re: #121 Aceofwhat?

i'm still not sure on that. have we figured out what a 'voice of descent' is yet?

admittedly, i'm working my way up a la SFZ, so i may yet encounter the answer to the riddle...

My first guess was "baritone."

128 The Shadow Do  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:53:40pm

re: #63 elbruce

Oh, I'm plenty aware of it, trust me. They do really need to knock it off if they ever do want peace. But speech isn't as bad as action, and I tend to cut more slack to the weaker party in any conflict, in terms of who I choose to wag my finger at more. Hopefully such propaganda will be one of the things on the table for negotiation.

Core flaw of the left, right there.

You do know the weaker party in a criminal case is the criminal, right?

129 Ziggy Standard  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:53:53pm

re: #65 spikester

I've poked around this page for a few hrs
You may be the last lgf voice of descent

all you dingbats be sure to hit my - sign

"Dingbat"? Haven't heard that one since that moron Bagua got banned.

130 SteveC  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:54:00pm
Apparently we’re on the brink of peace in the Middle East

Again????

Still?????

131 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:54:07pm

re: #127 JasonA

My first guess was "baritone."

I can play the baritone.
/take that sci-fi geeks!!

132 jordash1212  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:54:24pm

On another note, what was the one thing Khalid Islambouli said after he killed Sadat? "Pharoah is dead." The situation in Egypt was dire and economic and social situations were terrible. Sadat was on the path of Westernization (or Westoxification in the eyes of some). He was reversing many of Nasser's social programs, decreasing education and reducing the bureaucracy. I won't say his peace with Israel didn't help justify his assassination, but it sure was not the main reason.

133 Kragar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:54:31pm

re: #121 Aceofwhat?

i'm still not sure on that. have we figured out what a 'voice of descent' is yet?

admittedly, i'm working my way up a la SFZ, so i may yet encounter the answer to the riddle...

I think it goes something like "AAAHHH" as you realize you're not wearing a parachute

134 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:54:53pm

re: #133 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think it goes something like "AAAHHH" as you realize you're not wearing a parachute

I hate when that happens.

135 spikester  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:55:01pm

re: #129 Jimmah

sorry dont know who Bagua was / is

136 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:55:14pm

re: #127 JasonA

My first guess was "baritone."

it's almost some witty play on evolution...lacking only the wit and the play...

137 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:55:50pm

Good evening LGF.

138 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:55:56pm

re: #135 spikester

sorry dont know who Bagua was / is

Keep it up and I'm sure you'll be meeting him soon.

139 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:56:26pm

re: #125 marjoriemoon

Egypt and Jordan are not the PLO. Israel has peaceful relations with the former and most of the Arab countries outside of some extremist factions (i.e. Hizbollah in Lebanon). If you don't know the difference, there's some serious history you're missing.

Israel has only a cold peace with the Egyptian government. The Egyptian populace hates Israel and supports Jew-murder.

140 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:56:39pm

re: #95 spikester

dont't know how to respond to that.

That settles that.

141 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:57:17pm

re: #135 spikester

The Bullshit Detector is getting a reading...

142 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:57:25pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

Israel has only a cold peace with the Egyptian government. The Egyptian populace hates Israel and supports Jew-murder.

Don't they also have a wall built to keep out the Pali's?

143 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:57:37pm

re: #137 Spare O'Lake

Good evening LGF.

Hi Spare! Are you watching Football on Fox like all good Americans? Or do we need to send the Saprono's after your ass? *wink*

144 SteveC  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:57:38pm

re: #131 Cannadian Club Akbar

I can play the baritone.

I'll learn to work the saxophone
I'll play just what I feel
Drink Scotch whisky all night long
And die behind the wheel
They got a name for the winners in the world
I want a name when I lose
They call Alabama the Crimson Tide
Call me Deacon Blues

145 jordash1212  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:57:41pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

Says who...

146 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:57:46pm

re: #116 Dark_Falcon

Hello, Ice! How's Scotland?

Freaking COLD!

over 100 degrees in nyc in july-- since i've been here we've never broken 73 degrees i swear.

it's going to be 45 degrees tomorrow night. Its too cold to wear sandals, its too cold to wear a tshirt and not have a coat with you-- it's so freaking windy that i have to take down the baskets with plants outside, hide certain plants, and window baskets, fuhhgeddaboit.

Today i said to Jimmah 'wow, look at all that fog awae the brae (over the hills)'-- he said "Ah tha's nae fog, it's rain". It was and it arrived. WTF?

But I love it and him and this crazy place. How are you??

147 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:58:02pm

re: #122 Cato the Elder

No, there doesn't. If the Arab-Muslim world continues to demonize Israel, there doesn't have to be any resolution beyond continued defensive preparedness on the part of the Israelis.

And that, frankly, is what I expect to see for the rest of my lifetime.

Anything else would come as a shock, one that would make the fall of the Soviet Union seem like a preordained magic trick.

If there doesn't than why would Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have accepted the invitation today? Obviously Israel finds these talk in their interest. These talks are not regarding overal Arab-Muslim sentiment of Israel and instead will focus on direct talks between Israel and Palestine.

The point of course is that there won't be complete resolution to this conflict because of these talks. As I stated I remain cynical however whatever good can come from it the better.

That Israel will remain in "continued defensive preparedness" will continue regardless of the outcome due to the hostility of neighboring states towards the state of Israel.

148 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:58:44pm

re: #143 HoosierHoops

Hi Spare! Are you watching Football on Fox like all good Americans? Or do we need to send the Saprono's after your ass? *wink*

Vick is definitely not as fast as he used to be...not that i have any sympathy, mind you...

149 Ziggy Standard  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:59:17pm

re: #138 JasonA

Keep it up and I'm sure you'll be meeting him soon.

I think the meeting of minds has already occurred.

150 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:59:37pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

Israel has only a cold peace with the Egyptian government. The Egyptian populace hates Israel and supports Jew-murder.

Radical Islam is Mubarak's mortal enemy.

151 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:59:42pm

re: #142 Cannadian Club Akbar

Don't they also have a wall built to keep out the Pali's?

Yes.

152 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:59:49pm

Sadat was shaking down the Americans for a better deal than the Soviets could make. All he had to do was make nice with Isreal and he got a nice big desert back and access to better weapons for the parades (ooops), a bag of money and some access to intelligence with which to oppress his opposition (not that it worked out that well for him, but his successor benefited).

Cold war politics. Nothing more.

153 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 6:59:50pm

re: #148 Aceofwhat?

Vick is definitely not as fast as he used to be...not that i have any sympathy, mind you...

You'd think he would be in shape, chasing dogs and all.
///poor taste, right there.

154 swamprat  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:00:02pm

re: #121 Aceofwhat?

i'm still not sure on that. have we figured out what a 'voice of descent' is yet?

admittedly, i'm working my way up a la SFZ, so i may yet encounter the answer to the riddle...

First floor,sir?
Railing was looooooooose!
Ballast tanks are empty sir! What are your orders?
We can get to the basement through this stairwell.
Hold your horses "john", until I finish my beer and take out the gum.

155 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:00:26pm

re: #149 Jimmah

I think the meeting of minds has already occurred.

oh, so that's what the empty coconut knocking sound was...two likeminded heads coming together;)

156 Ziggy Standard  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:00:37pm

re: #146 iceweasel

Freaking COLD!

over 100 degrees in nyc in july-- since i've been here we've never broken 73 degrees i swear.

it's going to be 45 degrees tomorrow night. Its too cold to wear sandals, its too cold to wear a tshirt and not have a coat with you-- it's so freaking windy that i have to take down the baskets with plants outside, hide certain plants, and window baskets, fuhhgeddaboit.

Today i said to Jimmah 'wow, look at all that fog awae the brae (over the hills)'-- he said "Ah tha's nae fog, it's rain". It was and it arrived. WTF?

But I love it and him and this crazy place. How are you??

Never mind the temperatures, feel the day length!

157 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:00:51pm

re: #146 iceweasel

Keep off the moors, stick to the road...

158 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:01:09pm

re: #156 Jimmah

Never mind the temperatures, feel the day length!

3 hours?
/

159 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:01:13pm

re: #150 Spare O'Lake

Radical Islam is Mubarak's mortal enemy.

True. What happens to Egypt when he dies or retires is a serious worry of mine.

160 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:01:33pm

re: #154 swamprat

First floor,sir?
Railing was looose!
Ballast tanks are empty sir! What are your orders?
We can get to the basement through this stairwell.
Hold your horses "john", until I finish my beer and take out the gum.

i admit, that went over my head. a little help?

161 Turu The Terrible  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:01:41pm

re: #27 Walter L. Newton

I don't know. Once in a blue moon, I find that some after visiting a web site in another tab, some feature or small thing goes wrong with my LGF tab. I don't know a lot about so of the client side code snippets that Charles send along with a LGF page, but I have wondered what happens if two different web sites sends a programatic feature to you, will one process possibly step on another...

Maybe you need to toss your cookies. The ones in your webbrowser.

162 SteveC  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:02:07pm

re: #157 Killgore Trout

Keep off the moors, stick to the road...

Release the hounds!

163 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:02:22pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

Israel has only a cold peace with the Egyptian government. The Egyptian populace hates Israel and supports Jew-murder.

I would be wary of saying "the Egyptian populace" as though it were monolithic.

But yes, given the torrent of anti-Semitic, anti-Israel programming that spews forth from Egyptian airwaves, many of them do.

The thing we must remember is that people have to be taught whom to hate. Generation by generation.

In fact, I do believe there's a song about that.

164 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:02:32pm

re: #161 Turu The Terrible

Maybe you need to toss your cookies. The ones in your webbrowser.

I just upgraded my browser. Thanks again, Marjoriemoon.

165 ProGunLiberal  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:03:13pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

Frankly, we're going to get and Arab version of Iran, at least for a little while. This is where Qutb came from, and where the Islamist movement got its start.

166 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:03:25pm

re: #157 Killgore Trout

Keep off the moors, stick to the road...

[Video]

One of my favourite movies ever.

The locals here are super friendly I must say. In truth I suspect they just love american accents.

167 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:03:38pm

re: #146 iceweasel

Hey, Ice is back! Good to...ah..."see" you again, girl, and glad that you're reunited with your tartan man-

('seeing' doesn't feel right but i'm at a loss for a better verb at the moment...)

168 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:03:40pm

re: #146 iceweasel

Freaking COLD!

over 100 degrees in nyc in july-- since i've been here we've never broken 73 degrees i swear.

it's going to be 45 degrees tomorrow night. Its too cold to wear sandals, its too cold to wear a tshirt and not have a coat with you-- it's so freaking windy that i have to take down the baskets with plants outside, hide certain plants, and window baskets, fuhhgeddaboit.

Today i said to Jimmah 'wow, look at all that fog awae the brae (over the hills)'-- he said "Ah tha's nae fog, it's rain". It was and it arrived. WTF?

But I love it and him and this crazy place. How are you??

I'm good. I got a big sale and work today at double commission. My first big sale of the month and I really needed it. Today was a good day.

169 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:05:21pm

re: #165 ProLifeLiberal

Frankly, we're going to get and Arab version of Iran, at least for a little while. This is where Qutb came from, and where the Islamist movement got its start.

That would be a God-awful nightmare. An Islamist Egypt would be a nightmare for Israel and for us too.

170 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:05:51pm

re: #146 iceweasel

I would take the weather you describe in that post over almost any conceivable day in Baltimore. Wanna trade?

171 swamprat  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:06:00pm

re: #160 Aceofwhat?

i admit, that went over my head. a little help?

All quotes from those descending, or "going down".

Dissent vs descent

voice of dissent
is not
voice of descent

172 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:06:11pm

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

I'm good. I got a big sale and work today at double commission. My first big sale of the month and I really needed it. Today was a good day.

nice, dude. big sales are as helpful to the psyche as they are to the wallet...i bet that Monday will be easier to face with the added momentum.

173 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:06:13pm

re: #143 HoosierHoops

Hi Spare! Are you watching Football on Fox like all good Americans? Or do we need to send the Saprono's after your ass? *wink*

The TV has been commandeered and The General's Daughter is the only game in town for the next hour or so. Woods is so much better than Travolta.

174 Ziggy Standard  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:06:22pm

re: #158 Cannadian Club Akbar

3 hours?
/

In winter perhaps (don't tell ice though). But now in summer, and I do mean summer, it's light till 10 pm. All this and the northern lights too :)

175 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:07:34pm

re: #171 swamprat

All quotes from those descending, or "going down".

Dissent vs descent

voice of dissent
is not
voice of descent

gotcha.

i was wondering if he/she meant 'decent'...then i asked myself why i was attempting to make logic out of wordsalad.

it's dead, Jim.

176 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:07:36pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

Israel has only a cold peace with the Egyptian government. The Egyptian populace hates Israel and supports Jew-murder.

The relations are tenuous, like many areas all over the M.E. Sometimes they seem to be hanging on a thread, but they're still hanging. I'm not sure how to otherwise express that. It's ok as long as it doesn't get worse and there's enough dark corridors to find than going out looking for them. You know?

177 swamprat  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:09:16pm

re: #160 Aceofwhat?

1 elevator operator
2 construction worker
3 submarine officer
4 real estate salesperson
5 hooker

178 Gus  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:09:18pm

BIAB

179 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:09:19pm

re: #142 Cannadian Club Akbar

Don't they also have a wall built to keep out the Pali's?

The Philidelphi corridor has always been a problem for Israel with smuggling of weapons and construction materials.

180 Ziggy Standard  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:09:52pm

re: #157 Killgore Trout

Keep off the moors, stick to the road...

[Video]

Heh. Brings back memories of The Slaughtered Lamb on West 4th st and 6th Ave.

181 Killgore Trout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:11:17pm

re: #166 iceweasel

One of my favourite movies ever.


I rewatched it recently and was surprised how well it held up over time. A lot of movies from that era just don't work anymore.

182 SteveC  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:12:18pm

Awww shit.

Joshua was born on the 16th with Hypoplastic Left Heart Syndrome (non-medical: for all practical purposes, the left half of his heart isn't there) and he had surgery yesterday. He was doing really good most of today but now his blood pressure is all over the chart and his heart rate is doing strange things.

Joshua's mom is a friend, so I'm sure she would appreciate it if you could keep a kind thought for him.

183 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:12:43pm

re: #124 karmic_inquisitor

You call that peace?

Um, yeah. Unless you can point to a more recent Israel/Egypt battle.

.


re: #125 marjoriemoon

Egypt and Jordan are not the PLO.

Didn't say they were. Just saying there's one example of when an American President has helped to broker a lasting peace in the Middle East. The only one, but one nonetheless. I refer you to the question I was answering.

.


re: #128 The Shadow Do

Core flaw of the left, right there.

You do know the weaker party in a criminal case is the criminal, right?

Or at least the accused...

184 prairiefire  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:13:02pm

"Old Dark House"

185 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:13:35pm

re: #182 SteveC

On it.

186 Stanghazi  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:13:41pm

re: #182 SteveC

Awww shit.

Joshua was born on the 16th with Hypoplastic Left Heart Syndrome (non-medical: for all practical purposes, the left half of his heart isn't there) and he had surgery yesterday. He was doing really good most of today but now his blood pressure is all over the chart and his heart rate is doing strange things.

Joshua's mom is a friend, so I'm sure she would appreciate it if you could keep a kind thought for him.

Will do.

You are admirable, the work you do.

187 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:15:08pm

re: #183 elbruce

Um, yeah. Unless you can point to a more recent Israel/Egypt battle.

By that standard Israel is at peace with just about all of the Middle East.

Problem Solved

188 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:15:21pm

re: #68 JasonA

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

It is the highest form of patriotic.

189 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:16:10pm

re: #147 Gus 802

If there doesn't than why would Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have accepted the invitation today?

Um...because he has to?

I don't mind talks, but given the maximalist starting points (1967 borders, return of East Jerusalem, right of return for every bastard son of a "refugee" from sixty years ago, removal or evacuation of every last "settlement"), I expect they'll have the same success that I would "negotiating" with the neighbor down the street who hates my dog, the dogs of the ladies upstairs, and every dog in the neighborhood, and wants to see all dogs gone from this corner of Baltimore.

190 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:16:25pm

re: #172 Aceofwhat?

nice, dude. big sales are as helpful to the psyche as they are to the wallet...i bet that Monday will be easier to face with the added momentum.

Very true. I really needed the money and it helped me relax a good bit.

191 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:16:46pm

re: #188 goddamnedfrank

It is the highest form of patriotic.

Didn't Hillary say the same thing?

192 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:17:00pm

re: #124 karmic_inquisitor

and the price tag in terms of billions in aid annually? And we prop up a regime in Egypt that is still anti-Soviet (the selling point at the time) but pretty much is a corrupt dictatorship that has zero interest in seeing a pluralistic, democratic Middle East.

Sounds like just about everybody we're giving foreign aid to over there. And although they do have problems with their democratic process, at least they have one, so I don't think "corrupt dictatorship" really applies. More like "corrupt democracy," a la Afghanistan under Karzai.

193 BARACK THE VOTE  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:17:12pm

re: #181 Killgore Trout

I rewatched it recently and was surprised how well it held up over time. A lot of movies from that era just don't work anymore.

I think that particular movie is pretty clever. More clever than it was given credit for at the time. bits of it are truly creepy.

The feverish nightmares he has in the hospital are what always stayed with me.

194 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:17:16pm

re: #183 elbruce

Didn't say they were. Just saying there's one example of when an American President has helped to broker a lasting peace in the Middle East. The only one, but one nonetheless. I refer you to the question I was answering.

There are people who won't give Carter his due with Israel. I'm not one of them, although I detest the man.

What was the question?

195 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:18:27pm

re: #183 elbruce


Um, yeah. Unless you can point to a more recent Israel/Egypt battle.
re: #125 marjoriemoon
Didn't say they were. Just saying there's one example of when an American President has helped to broker a lasting peace in the Middle East. The only one, but one nonetheless. I refer you to the question I was answering.
re: #128 The Shadow Do
Or at least the accused...

Unfortunately, Anwar Sadat and King Hussein were aberrations in the Arab world.

196 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:18:28pm

re: #187 karmic_inquisitor

By that standard Israel is at peace with just about all of the Middle East.

Except for Lebanon and of course the Palestinians themselves.

197 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:20:58pm

re: #194 marjoriemoon

There are people who won't give Carter his due with Israel. I'm not one of them, although I detest the man.

What was the question?

well, i don't want to speak for others, but Carter's more recent...uhh..."positions" have done much to reverse whatever actual good work he might have done back in the day.

198 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:21:52pm

Wow. Vick is S-L-O-W

199 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:22:54pm

re: #192 elbruce

Sounds like just about everybody we're giving foreign aid to over there. And although they do have problems with their democratic process, at least they have one, so I don't think "corrupt dictatorship" really applies. More like "corrupt democracy," a la Afghanistan under Karzai.

How many changes in government have happen by ballot (not bullet) in Egypt in the last 30 years?

200 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:23:07pm

re: #198 Aceofwhat?

Wow. Vick is S-L-O-W

Someone should set some dogs on his ass.

201 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:23:33pm

re: #196 elbruce

Except for Lebanon and of course the Palestinians themselves.

Israel has never been at peace with Syria.

202 Four More Tears  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:23:41pm

re: #200 Cato the Elder

Someone should set some dogs on his ass.

I do believe you've just created a new sport.

203 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:23:59pm

re: #191 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't Hillary say the same thing?

While the Dems were the party out of power, yes.

204 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:24:44pm

re: #190 Dark_Falcon

Very true. I really needed the money and it helped me relax a good bit.

Personally, I don't know how anyone can stand to work "on commission". The uncertainty would drive me nuts, and I'm afraid I'd turn into an asshole trying to get people to buy stuff they don't really want or need.

Kudos to you if you can handle it.

205 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:24:51pm

re: #197 Aceofwhat?

well, i don't want to speak for others, but Carter's more recent...uhh..."positions" have done much to reverse whatever actual good work he might have done back in the day.

I don't know if it reverses it exactly, but he went to a very bad place, indeed. Certainly I think he incited hatred against Israel.

206 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:24:57pm

re: #200 Cato the Elder

Someone should set some dogs on his ass.

I admit to taking pleasure in observing his decline.

207 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:25:04pm

re: #198 Aceofwhat?

Wow. Vick is S-L-O-W

This game is a joke. And Vick has always sucked. Fast, sure.(not now) But he sucks. Check out his stats against the Bucs.:)

208 Stanghazi  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:25:31pm

Dunlap, nice! (Ace)

209 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:25:34pm

re: #196 elbruce

Except for Lebanon and of course the Palestinians themselves.

Bringing us right back to square one. Why does this occupy so much focus of US presidencies? What do we hope to gain from all of this?

Peace is more likely to come from keeping it at a stalemate and the merchants of the different sides learning to evade the various embargoes of the other.

210 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:26:23pm

re: #208 Stanley Sea

Dunlap, nice! (Ace)

There was a Riley Cooper sighting, too!

211 SteveC  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:26:50pm

re: #209 karmic_inquisitor

Bringing us right back to square one. Why does this occupy so much focus of US presidencies? What do we hope to gain from all of this?

Legacy! Everybody wants to be in the history books.

212 Ziggy Standard  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:27:08pm

Gotta' git. Microwaving a pork chop with my ipod and it's making a terrible clanking noise. Iceweasel says goodnight too :)

213 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:28:22pm

re: #212 Jimmah

Gotta' git. Microwaving a pork chop with my ipod and it's making a terrible clanking noise. Iceweasel says goodnight too :)

Anything those things can't do?
/

214 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:28:27pm

re: #211 SteveC

Legacy! Everybody wants to be in the history books.

That, plus some desire to counterbalance the warped lens through which much of the world views the situation.

215 prairiefire  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:28:44pm

re: #200 Cato the Elder

Someone should set some dogs on his ass.

I wonder if there is something planned for him in the afterlife?

216 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:28:51pm

re: #212 Jimmah

Gotta' git. Microwaving a pork chop with my ipod and it's making a terrible clanking noise. Iceweasel says goodnight too :)

I need that app...//

217 freetoken  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:28:54pm

We had a semi-flounce down in the last science thread. It's kind of strange - not that people might disagree with what some blogger (Charles) might write ... but that so many of them really think by leaving a snotty little tidbit that they will somehow impress somebody or other.

218 Mich-again  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:29:12pm

Watching The Waterboy. Bobby Boucher's momma would make a fine GOP candidate for office these days. She's an X in every box on the purity test.

219 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:31:30pm

re: #211 SteveC

Legacy! Everybody wants to be in the history books.

"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
Hitchhiker's Guide

220 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:31:58pm

re: #217 freetoken

We had a semi-flounce down in the last science thread. It's kind of strange - not that people might disagree with what some blogger (Charles) might write ... but that so many of them really think by leaving a snotty little tidbit that they will somehow impress somebody or other.

Did the troll get clubbed? I've got some charcoal so I can grill it.

221 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:32:05pm

re: #147 Gus 802

If there doesn't than why would Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have accepted the invitation today? Obviously Israel finds these talk in their interest. These talks are not regarding overal Arab-Muslim sentiment of Israel and instead will focus on direct talks between Israel and Palestine.

The point of course is that there won't be complete resolution to this conflict because of these talks. As I stated I remain cynical however whatever good can come from it the better.

That Israel will remain in "continued defensive preparedness" will continue regardless of the outcome due to the hostility of neighboring states towards the state of Israel.


Israel has nothing to lose with talks. Talk is cheap. Israel knows that they don't have a partner in peace and aren't going to offer up anything that hasn't already been discussed previously.

The real issue is that this may give Abbas more leverage - some token advance on the discussions (such as to hold further discussions or to loosen some security arrangements in the West Bank) may be seen as a way to improve Fatah's standing vis-a-vis Hamas. The problem however is that Fatah doesn't speak for all Palestinians and doesn't control or have access to land in question - Gaza - that any decision or potential deal is necessarily limited.

222 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:32:06pm

I'm not getting into a pissing contest with anyone tonight - suffice to say i wish these talks every success of succeeding and that a reasonable solution can be reached.

223 SteveC  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:32:13pm

re: #215 prairiefire

I wonder if there is something planned for him in the afterlife?

Oh, I am sure they are holding a spot for him stokin' the boiler!

224 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:32:59pm

re: #218 Mich-again

Watching The Waterboy. Bobby Boucher's momma would make a fine GOP candidate for office these days. She's an X in every box on the purity test.

i don't know...anyone who thinks that football is the debil is going to have a tough road.

225 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:33:43pm

re: #217 freetoken

We had a semi-flounce down in the last science thread. It's kind of strange - not that people might disagree with what some blogger (Charles) might write ... but that so many of them really think by leaving a snotty little tidbit that they will somehow impress somebody or other.

The amazing thing is that they feel absolutely no compunction about lying, even when they very obviously are aware that they're not telling the truth.

Anti-AGW fanatics are exactly like creationists in that respect. They give themselves permission to lie and deceive, because they're doing God's work.

226 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:33:56pm

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

i don't know...anyone who thinks that football is the debil is going to have a tough road.

Worse if it were Nascar......

just sayin'

227 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:34:03pm

re: #223 SteveC

Oh, I am sure they are holding a spot for him stokin' the boiler!

i was thinking spiritual nipple clamps and an ethereal set of jumper cables, but sure...boiler is good...

228 Mich-again  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:34:58pm

A pork chop in the microwave? Thats odd. I don't think I've ever cooked a piece of meat in the microwave. Thats gotta be tougher than Chinese math.

229 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:35:00pm

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

i don't know...anyone who thinks that football is the debil is going to have a tough road.

I can carry the South in a Presidential race if I can make a UF, FSU, UM, LSU Georgia, Alabama shirt.:)

230 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:35:53pm

re: #229 Cannadian Club Akbar

I can carry the South in a Presidential race if I can make a UF, FSU, UM, LSU Georgia, Alabama shirt.:)

*snort*
You would, indeed.

231 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:36:08pm

re: #228 Mich-again

A pork chop in the microwave? Thats odd. I don't think I've ever cooked a piece of meat in the microwave. Thats gotta be tougher than Chinese math.

You only nuke hot dogs.

232 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:36:18pm

re: #229 Cannadian Club Akbar

I can carry the South in a Presidential race if I can make a UF, FSU, UM, LSU Georgia, Alabama shirt.:)

it's funny 'cause it's tru

233 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:36:37pm

Given the current realities just within Israel-"Palestine", I give these talks as much chance of succeeding as spit on a griddle of turning into a snowball.

Not that I'd mind being proven wrong.

234 Mich-again  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:36:57pm

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

i don't know...anyone who thinks that football is the debil is going to have a tough road.

Momma comes around to being a football fan in the end. She's actually a heavier redhead version of Sarah Palin.

235 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:37:52pm

'lo Lizards

236 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:38:13pm

re: #221 lawhawk

FWIW - the longer Gaza and the West Bank are governed separately the sooner many of the issues of a "single state cut in half" go away. best case outcome in the next 20 years is that the west bank makes a deal and lives with Israel while Gaza becomes the sole grievance outpost and the same invective aimed at Israel continues (at the same levels from the same parties worldwide). But at least Israel has one group to focus on instead of two (leaving Hezbollah aside for the moment).

237 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:38:44pm

re: #224 Aceofwhat?

i don't know...anyone who thinks that football is the debil is going to have a tough road.

What's the definition of a queer in Texas? A boy who likes girls more than he does football.

238 Aceofwhat?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:39:00pm

re: #234 Mich-again

Momma comes around to being a football fan in the end. She's actually a heavier redhead version of Sarah Palin.

good point. and she apparently grills a mean 'gator...

239 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:39:16pm

re: #209 karmic_inquisitor

Bringing us right back to square one. Why does this occupy so much focus of US presidencies? What do we hope to gain from all of this?

Peace is more likely to come from keeping it at a stalemate and the merchants of the different sides learning to evade the various embargoes of the other.

There can be no peace in the ME unless and until Iran is contained.

240 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:40:34pm

re: #238 Aceofwhat?

good point. and she apparently grills a mean 'gator...

Tastes like chicken!

241 Wozza Matter?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:40:35pm

catcha all on the flip, at some point.

242 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:41:38pm

re: #240 PT Barnum

Tastes like chicken!

And you can order it here.

243 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:42:11pm

re: #236 karmic_inquisitor

That would be a three-state solution, which is the de facto situation. The Palestinians still don't want that situation. They don't want a 2-state solution, and their leadership hasn't given up on that either. But Fatah may be slightly more pragmatic and see long-term power if they cut some kind of a deal with Israel and leave Gaza hanging (literally and physically).

I just don't see Abbas as the guy who will make that deal; his character is sorely lacking - lacks the temperament of a Sadat or even King Hussein. He is no peacemaker and is not willing to make concessions because he is in no position to enforce a deal with Israel.

244 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:42:52pm

re: #242 reine.de.tout

And you can order it here.

I've always wanted to go into a KFC, order the chicken dinner, take a bite and yell in my best redneck voice "Hey! This tastes just like alligator!"

245 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:43:17pm

re: #225 Charles

They give themselves permission to lie and deceive, because they're doing God's work.

Well God id that whole "Dinosaur headfake" thing when he created Earth 5,000 years ago with pre-aged bones placed inconspicuously in Utah hillsides.

I still think Noah was an asshole for not letting Woolly Mammoths on the ark. Maybe God told him "No Mammoths!"

246 freetoken  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:43:19pm

re: #220 Dark_Falcon

Did the troll get clubbed? I've got some charcoal so I can grill it.

Kind of a scrawny troll, so even though clubbed it won't make much of a meal. Recommend chopping into small pieces and making a stew.

247 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:43:32pm

re: #243 lawhawk

That would be a three-state solution, which is the de facto situation. The Palestinians still don't want that situation. They don't want a 2-state solution, and their leadership hasn't given up on that either. But Fatah may be slightly more pragmatic and see long-term power if they cut some kind of a deal with Israel and leave Gaza hanging (literally and physically).

I just don't see Abbas as the guy who will make that deal; his character is sorely lacking - lacks the temperament of a Sadat or even King Hussein. He is no peacemaker and is not willing to make concessions because he is in no position to enforce a deal with Israel.

Think it'll turn into a Schroedinger's cat situation? Won't be either until somebody looks?

248 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:44:04pm

re: #245 karmic_inquisitor

Well God id that whole "Dinosaur headfake" thing when he created Earth 5,000 years ago with pre-aged bones placed inconspicuously in Utah hillsides.

I still think Noah was an asshole for not letting Woolly Mammoths on the ark. Maybe God told him "No Mammoths!"

Not to mention not getting rid of the evil ducks, whales, dolphins etc.

249 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:44:54pm

re: #246 freetoken

Kind of a scrawny troll, so even though clubbed it won't make much of a meal. Recommend chopping into small pieces and making a stew.

I ate it's liver with a fine chianti and some fava beans...

pht-pht-pht-pht

250 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:45:20pm

re: #246 freetoken

Kind of a scrawny troll, so even though clubbed it won't make much of a meal. Recommend chopping into small pieces and making a stew.

OK. We'll have Troll and Noodle soup!

251 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:46:09pm

re: #194 marjoriemoon

There are people who won't give Carter his due with Israel. I'm not one of them, although I detest the man.

"Detest the man?" Dude, that's harsh. He's been a stolid evangelical Christian all his life, and has pretty much dedicated himself to service to others.

It's one thing to discuss whether he was effective or not, or to disagree with his judgement on a number of issues, but "detest the man?" He's one of the best human beings there is, all politics aside.

re: #199 karmic_inquisitor

How many changes in government have happen by ballot (not bullet) in Egypt in the last 30 years?

Egypt seems to be kind of the way Mexico was until about the last decade - all the democratic machinery is there, but there's only ever one person to vote for, or not. I'm not going to argue that they're an ideal of democracy. Obviously they aren't. But I still think there's a big difference between a corrupt democracy and a corrupt dictatorship.

re: #201 Spare O'Lake

Israel has never been at peace with Syria.

I was referring there to actual armed conflicts since the Six Day war. Syria hasn't had the guts to actually throw down.

re: #209 karmic_inquisitor

Bringing us right back to square one. Why does this occupy so much focus of US presidencies? What do we hope to gain from all of this?

They all want to get that next handshake in the Rose Garden followed by a Nobel Peace Prize. All of them since, Republican or Democrat, has tried to duplicate that. Fortunately, Oslo threw a Nobel Peace Prize at Obama early on (admittedly for nothing), so maybe he doesn't feel the need to work for a Mideast peace deal as much as his predecessors... but I'd bet you anything that Hillary does. And her fingerprints are aaalll over this.

re: #209 karmic_inquisitor

Peace is more likely to come from keeping it at a stalemate and the merchants of the different sides learning to evade the various embargoes of the other.

Then maybe the focus of these initial negotiations should be opening up free trade and movement so that can happen. But as it is, they're kept apart by razor wire and checkpoints pretty much everywhere. Free trade is nonexistent.

252 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:46:30pm

re: #249 PT Barnum

I ate it's liver with a fine chianti and some fava beans...

pht-pht-pht-pht

Good evening, Dr. Lector.

253 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:47:14pm

Marjorie...server for the guild is Sarlona..jes so you know.

254 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:47:42pm

re: #244 PT Barnum

I've always wanted to go into a KFC, order the chicken dinner, take a bite and yell in my best redneck voice "Hey! This tastes just like alligator!"

LOL.
A friend of mine went into - hm, I think it was Office Depot - and yelled, "WOW! That's a really low price!".

She reported back that 3 employees hollered it back to her!
LOL.

255 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:48:21pm

re: #253 PT Barnum

Marjorie...server for the guild is Sarlona..jes so you know.

Ah otay! Thanks!

256 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:48:30pm

If I have to reboot one more thing, there might be a fire.
/

257 SteveC  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:48:32pm

re: #246 freetoken

Kind of a scrawny troll, so even though clubbed it won't make much of a meal. Recommend chopping into small pieces and making a stew.

Oh man of G-d! There is death in the pot!

258 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:48:54pm

re: #239 Spare O'Lake

There can be no peace in the ME unless and until Iran is contained.

Don't get me started on Iran.

The hope (and unofficial foreign policy) now is that a regime change will happen there and they will decommission like South Africa did. Meanwhile, the Mullahs use American and European network management software to detect, hunt and kill opponents of the state. It is vile and disgusting that we have allowed that to happen and find ourselves having to find ways to thwart the technology.

Just the same, you have ancient grudges there that go beyond "simple" religious and national identity. A pluralistic Middle East is generations away regardless of what happens to the mullahs.

259 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:49:09pm

re: #257 SteveC

Oh man of G-d! There is death in the pot!

Or find some sheep intestine and make sausage.

260 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:50:26pm

re: #258 karmic_inquisitor

Don't get me started on Iran.

Just the same, you have ancient grudges there that go beyond "simple" religious and national identity. A pluralistic Middle East is generations away regardless of what happens to the mullahs.

Even more reason to disengage ourselves from the region or at least make ourselves somewhat immune from it. A sane energy policy would be a good start.

261 Charles Johnson  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:50:29pm

re: #251 elbruce

But I still think there's a big difference between a corrupt democracy and a corrupt dictatorship.

True. The corrupt dictatorship is much, MUCH worse.

262 What, me worry?  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:50:30pm

re: #251 elbruce

Writing an entire book about how Israel is an apartheid state does NOT make him one of the best human begins there is, but interesting that you think so.

263 cliffster  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:50:33pm

howdy errbody, looks like a lively thread this friday..

264 SteveC  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:50:45pm

re: #259 PT Barnum

Or find some sheep intestine and make sausage.

Troll, it's whats for dinner! :)

265 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:51:04pm

re: #259 PT Barnum

Or find some sheep intestine and make sausage.

I know how to make sausage. No intestine needed.

266 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:51:47pm

re: #263 cliffster

howdy errbody, looks like a lively thread this friday..


Hi Cliff!
{insert unintiontially offensive statement here}

267 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:51:55pm

re: #236 karmic_inquisitor

FWIW - the longer Gaza and the West Bank are governed separately the sooner many of the issues of a "single state cut in half" go away. best case outcome in the next 20 years is that the west bank makes a deal and lives with Israel while Gaza becomes the sole grievance outpost and the same invective aimed at Israel continues (at the same levels from the same parties worldwide). But at least Israel has one group to focus on instead of two (leaving Hezbollah aside for the moment).

If Abbas actually makes peace with Israel without including Gaza, he probably signs his own death warrant. The pressure on him is intense.

268 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:52:09pm

re: #265 Cannadian Club Akbar

I know how to make sausage. No intestine needed.

Not if you want it to have that snap!

269 Nervous Norvous  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:52:28pm

ooops gotta go for a bit...bbl

270 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:52:31pm

re: #251 elbruce

"Detest the man?" Dude, that's harsh. He's been a stolid evangelical Christian all his life, and has pretty much dedicated himself to service to others.

It's one thing to discuss whether he was effective or not, or to disagree with his judgment on a number of issues, but "detest the man?" He's one of the best human beings there is, all politics aside.

Horseshit. Carter accused Israel of practicing apartheid, repeatedly attacked George W. Bush in harsh, partisan terms (though that can be written off as partisan mudslinging) and was saying the Iraq war was lost even as the Anbar Awakening had begun to turn things around. Cater is a shithead.

271 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:52:46pm

re: #266 PT Barnum

Hi Cliff!
{insert unintiontially offensive statement here} Fuck you!!

272 cliffster  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:55:12pm

re: #271 Cannadian Club Akbar

I didn't know it was that kind of party...

273 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:56:20pm

re: #272 cliffster

I didn't know it was that kind of party...

I thought is was a request by PT. My bad.
//

274 lawhawk  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:57:14pm

Carter's legacy on the Middle East is the direct result of being fortuitous enough to be around when Anwar Sadat made his historic trip to Jerusalem and determined that Egypt's future relied on peace with Israel. Ending the state of war between the two countries, normalization of relations, and using US foreign aid to paper over differences, and the Israeli loss of the Sinai were key.

Carter was there to help paper the differences, but since then, he's shown himself to be a rabid anti-Israeli fanatic who reeks of anti-Semitism and has no problem sitting down with terrorists like Hamas at every opportunity.

Carter had no problem visiting Hamas leaders, but did nothing to press the issue of Gilad Shalit - at a time when Carter could have played humanitarian. The issue never came up - and Carter never pressed Hamas on respecting human rights.

Instead, Carter myopically looks at Israel making concession after concession ignoring the fact that the Palestinians have not only repeatedly failed to fulfill their obligations under Oslo, but that the Palestinians repeated engage in terror attacks against Israelis, violating Israel's sovereign rights - and attacking Israel's sovereign right to defend itself from attack (and its attackers).

275 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:58:34pm

re: #258 karmic_inquisitor

A pluralistic Middle East is generations away regardless of what happens to the mullahs.

Behold Pu-239, makes the melting pot melt faster.

276 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:58:50pm
re: #251 elbruce

I was referring there to actual armed conflicts since the Six Day war. Syria hasn't had the guts to actually throw down.

Have you forgotten 1973?

277 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:59:38pm

re: #275 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Behold Pu-239, makes the melting pot melt faster.

It also makes great fission line. ;)

278 cliffster  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 7:59:40pm

re: #273 Cannadian Club Akbar

I thought is was a request by PT. My bad.
//

this is nuts. back in the day, there would have already been 50 comments after you made this one, people would be cussing each other out, couple people banned. FNDT, where'd you go??

279 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:00:42pm

Honest to goodness, I sometimes wish that I not hire anyone to help. A mis-placed fork can fuck up a dish-washer very quickly, and very badly.

But, that's not important.

We had a wonderful evening. Cyril brought loads of flowers--he's a jewel!

Alison's big batch of green beans cooked with new taters was THE END!!!!

A chunk of fat-back!!!

Oh, the humongous tomatoes scraped out and filled with chunks of cukes and diced beans and snippets of cheese.

Corn cut from the cob this morning, and cooked with huge chunks of butter.

The funds we raised, beyond compare.

280 cliffster  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:02:15pm

re: #279 MandyManners

awesome, what was the occasion?

281 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:03:11pm

WHITE POWER on the History Channel!!!
/really, it is on.

282 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:03:18pm

re: #274 lawhawk

Carter's legacy on the Middle East is the direct result of being fortuitous enough to be around when Anwar Sadat made his historic trip to Jerusalem and determined that Egypt's future relied on peace with Israel. Ending the state of war between the two countries, normalization of relations, and using US foreign aid to paper over differences, and the Israeli loss of the Sinai were key.

Carter was there to help paper the differences, but since then, he's shown himself to be a rabid anti-Israeli fanatic who reeks of anti-Semitism and has no problem sitting down with terrorists like Hamas at every opportunity.

Carter had no problem visiting Hamas leaders, but did nothing to press the issue of Gilad Shalit - at a time when Carter could have played humanitarian. The issue never came up - and Carter never pressed Hamas on respecting human rights.

Instead, Carter myopically looks at Israel making concession after concession ignoring the fact that the Palestinians have not only repeatedly failed to fulfill their obligations under Oslo, but that the Palestinians repeated engage in terror attacks against Israelis, violating Israel's sovereign rights - and attacking Israel's sovereign right to defend itself from attack (and its attackers).

Whenever I think of the phrase "Jew-hating bastard", Carter is in my mind.

283 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:04:12pm

re: #188 goddamnedfrank

It is the highest form of patriotic.

I agree!

284 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:05:13pm

re: #237 PT Barnum

What's the definition of a queer in Texas? A boy who likes girls more than he does football.

ahahahahaha yes

285 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:05:35pm

re: #281 Cannadian Club Akbar

WHITE POWER on the History Channel!!!
/really, it is on.

Watching now. This bunch of racist scum seem like a real threat.

286 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:06:22pm

re: #280 cliffster

awesome, what was the occasion?

Just a pot-luck harvest fest. No big deal. About 25 people.

There might be another one next weekend. I have no part in it.

287 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:06:49pm

re: #285 Dark_Falcon

Watching now. This bunch of racist scum seem like a real threat.

I would say only on a small scale.

288 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:07:00pm

re: #274 lawhawk

Carter's legacy on the Middle East is the direct result of being fortuitous enough to be around when Anwar Sadat made his historic trip to Jerusalem and determined that Egypt's future relied on peace with Israel. Ending the state of war between the two countries, normalization of relations, and using US foreign aid to paper over differences, and the Israeli loss of the Sinai were key.

Carter was there to help paper the differences, but since then, he's shown himself to be a rabid anti-Israeli fanatic who reeks of anti-Semitism and has no problem sitting down with terrorists like Hamas at every opportunity.

Carter had no problem visiting Hamas leaders, but did nothing to press the issue of Gilad Shalit - at a time when Carter could have played humanitarian. The issue never came up - and Carter never pressed Hamas on respecting human rights.

Instead, Carter myopically looks at Israel making concession after concession ignoring the fact that the Palestinians have not only repeatedly failed to fulfill their obligations under Oslo, but that the Palestinians repeated engage in terror attacks against Israelis, violating Israel's sovereign rights - and attacking Israel's sovereign right to defend itself from attack (and its attackers).

Carter is a terrible person.

289 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:07:23pm

re: #65 spikester

I've poked around this page for a few hrs
You may be the last lgf voice of descent

all you dingbats be sure to hit my - sign

Which one, the Interplay game?

Or the board game?

You may also be thinking of the film Descent!

290 cliffster  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:07:44pm

re: #286 MandyManners

Just a pot-luck harvest fest. No big deal. About 25 people.

There might be another one next weekend. I have no part in it.

Awesome. I missed my invite.. must have gone into my spam folder.. ;)

291 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:07:59pm

re: #287 Cannadian Club Akbar

I would say only on a small scale.

True, but even a small group of racist scum can stir up a lot of fear an animosity.

292 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:08:33pm

re: #288 Spare O'Lake

Carter is a terrible person.

LOL!

Speak the truth.

Carter is a Jew-hating bastard.

Fuck him and fuck his fans.

293 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:09:15pm

re: #291 Dark_Falcon

True, but even a small group of racist scum can stir up a lot of fear an animosity.

Reagan and Nixon mask. Heh.

294 Cannadian Club Akbar  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:10:12pm

Phone. Gotta take it. BBIAB.

295 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:11:18pm

re: #293 Cannadian Club Akbar

Reagan and Nixon mask. Heh.

Kind of ironic given how Reagan's DoJ under Edwin Meese hammered the Neo-Nazis and violent White Nationalists back in the 80's.

296 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:15:12pm

re: #292 MandyManners

LOL!

Speak the truth.

Carter is a Jew-hating bastard.

Fuck him and fuck his fans.

Amen, sister.

297 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:15:53pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

Kind of ironic given how Reagan's DoJ under Edwin Meese hammered the Neo-Nazis and violent White Nationalists back in the 80's.

haha yeah? this Ed Meese?

U.S News & World Report: You criticize the Miranda ruling, which gives suspects the right to have a lawyer present before police questioning. Shouldn't people, who may be innocent, have such protection?
Meese: Suspects who are innocent of a crime should. But the thing is, you don't have many suspects who are innocent of a crime. That's contradictory. If a person is innocent of a crime, then he is not a suspect.

This is seriously one of the most unamerican privileged fat white douchebag things anyone in the US government has ever said. A lot of black people would take issue with this statement in our fair United States.

Republican Attorneys General, gotta love them

298 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:15:55pm

re: #292 MandyManners

LOL!

Speak the truth.

Carter is a Jew-hating bastard.

Fuck him and fuck his fans.

Quite Concur.

299 MandyManners  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:18:56pm

re: #290 cliffster

Awesome. I missed my invite.. must have gone into my spam folder.. ;)

It's a thing for the neighbors.

Hell, we have one who has varied his golf course repeatedly.

300 cliffster  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:19:34pm

Trekkie sausage

Image: 6115.jpg

301 prairiefire  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:19:42pm

re: #297 WindUpBird

I don't like him either, WUB.
Hey, is there any way you can live blog from Burning Man?

302 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:20:12pm

re: #10 MandyManners

Too bad we can't settle our international differences by putting our leaders in the ring with their opponents. Mano a mano.

I think there was a scene like that in "All Quiet On The Western Front", where the young man imagines letting the generals slug it out in person.

303 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:21:13pm

re: #17 marjoriemoon

I'm skeptical like Charles, but I always hold out for hope, as small as it may be.

If the territories could end up looking like Dubai, and there really is no reason they couldn't, that would be enough for Israel. That doesn't mean the anti-Semitism is going away or the radical ideology, but it would be a peace we all could live with.

Dubai, probably not. The way Beirut used to be before the Unpleasantness? Hell, why not?

304 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:21:29pm

Judicial Tyranny! Get it used for five bucks! With Ed Meese, James Dobson, Phyllis Schlafly, and Alan Keyes!

God bless them, every one, lol

Meese serves as an Adjunct Fellow at the Discovery Institute

And he's a creationist! Double lol.

305 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:22:07pm

re: #297 WindUpBird

haha yeah? this Ed Meese?

This is seriously one of the most unamerican privileged fat white douchebag things anyone in the US government has ever said. A lot of black people would take issue with this statement in our fair United States.

Republican Attorneys General, gotta love them

A lot of people, period.

306 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:22:38pm

re: #301 prairiefire

I don't like him either, WUB.
Hey, is there any way you can live blog from Burning Man?

In theory, if there's a computer there! But I won't be bringing an laptop or anything. I'd probably just check in, say OMG HI GUYS IT'S AWESOME and then disappear for days :D

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:24:09pm

re: #52 JasonA

So, I keep reading that Imam Rauf tapes are incoming...
Can't wait.

What, he said 'whitey'?

//

308 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:24:13pm

re: #305 reine.de.tout

A lot of people, period.

of course! The West Memphis Three, anyone? But that whole presumed innocent thing, the machinery of the judicial system was canted away from actual justice in the south if you were distinctly pigmented.

309 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:25:30pm

re: #65 spikester

I've poked around this page for a few hrs
You may be the last lgf voice of descent

all you dingbats be sure to hit my - sign

Done. Now, Mandy is the voice of 'descent'?

310 prairiefire  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:25:52pm

re: #306 WindUpBird

I hope you have a great time. Please share stories when you get back. I have never none anyone who has gone to it before.

311 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:27:05pm

re: #297 WindUpBird

I'd like to submit for the record that our Very Own Windsagio was in fact an innocent suspect who was railroaded into spending thousands of dollars on legal representation, only to have the police drop the charges right before it went to trial of course.

But you know, Reagan's attorney general, he knows better, whee!

312 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:27:52pm

re: #310 prairiefire

I hope you have a great time. Please share stories when you get back. I have never none anyone who has gone to it before.

Oh you'll probably be begging me to STOP sharing stories when I get back, I'll be wigging out about it, I'm sure

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:27:56pm

re: #84 ProLifeLiberal

I'm refering to some issues I have heard about with the fact that many wells drilled by Israel have undercut Palestinian wells, and the Palestinians I have heard are not allowed to drill deeper. I'm trying to find a good (but short) specific source, but only have a 154 page report from the World Bank. Frankly, I read both this Blog and the Daily Dish. A lot of things I've seen there have disturbed me.

Clearly, this is the sort of thing that would need to be discussed at a peace talk.

Like I always say, water is key to all of this.

Now, my question would be what is preventing West Bankers from drilling as deep as needed?

314 prairiefire  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:28:08pm

re: #309 SanFranciscoZionist

Done. Now, Mandy is the voice of 'descent'?

"Descent into madness, bwhaa, haa, ha, ha." Just kidding. I just was itching to use that.

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:29:44pm

re: #111 jordash1212

It's worked for Hosni Mubarak, though he's more of a fascist. It's also worked for the Jordanians.

Israel's treaties in the area have been slow to come, but they have lasted, Egypt being an excellent example.

316 Stanghazi  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:30:45pm

re: #308 WindUpBird

of course! The West Memphis Three, anyone? But that whole presumed innocent thing, the machinery of the judicial system was canted away from actual justice in the south if you were distinctly pigmented.

Haven't heard about them in awhile. They are just rotting away in jail.

Wonder if we'll read about their release in 20 yrs.

317 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:31:39pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

Israel has only a cold peace with the Egyptian government. The Egyptian populace hates Israel and supports Jew-murder.

And yet, the peace holds.

318 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:33:07pm

re: #175 Aceofwhat?

gotcha.

i was wondering if he/she meant 'decent'...then i asked myself why i was attempting to make logic out of wordsalad.

it's dead, Jim.

I think it was 'dissent'. But who knows?

319 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:35:18pm

re: #311 WindUpBird

I'd like to submit for the record that our Very Own Windsagio was in fact an innocent suspect who was railroaded into spending thousands of dollars on legal representation, only to have the police drop the charges right before it went to trial of course.

But you know, Reagan's attorney general, he knows better, whee!

And our very own Reine and her Roi were "profiled" and stopped, cops came outta their car with guns drawn. I was 3 months pregnant at the time, scared the ever-lovin' dickens outta me.

320 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:36:06pm

re: #316 Stanley Sea

Haven't heard about them in awhile. They are just rotting away in jail.

Wonder if we'll read about their release in 20 yrs.

It's sort of my exhibit A about how fucked up and third-world southern small town justice is. :(

321 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:39:08pm

re: #319 reine.de.tout

And our very own Reine and her Roi were "profiled" and stopped, cops came outta their car with guns drawn. I was 3 months pregnant at the time, scared the ever-lovin' dickens outta me.

I've been stopped with guns drawn! They thought my dirtbag rusting yellow 1978 corolla matched another dirtbag yellow corolla driven by some criminal. They thought they had their man, and they were surprised to discover a ver polite and very freaked out dork. I was on pins and needles, hands on the wheel, didn't know what to do, didn't want to make any sudden moves. Stopped is one thing, arrested, booked, and charged on no evidence whatsover and then made to empty your bank account to defend yourself from police harassment, that's something different. :/

322 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:40:44pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

Israel has only a cold peace with the Egyptian government. The Egyptian populace hates Israel and supports Jew-murder.

yeah? And politicians and dominionists in America support queer murder. Your point?

323 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:44:30pm

re: #321 WindUpBird

I've been stopped with guns drawn! They thought my dirtbag rusting yellow 1978 corolla matched another dirtbag yellow corolla driven by some criminal. They thought they had their man, and they were surprised to discover a ver polite and very freaked out dork. I was on pins and needles, hands on the wheel, didn't know what to do, didn't want to make any sudden moves. Stopped is one thing, arrested, booked, and charged on no evidence whatsover and then made to empty your bank account to defend yourself from police harassment, that's something different. :/

Oh, of course, arrested, booked, etc., is much different and worse.
I was just putting in my .02.

We happened to be a couple in a white Ford LTD, and we had stopped outside a house where apparently there was drug activity going on, and they were looking for a couple in a white Ford LTD.

Here a silly thing: While we sat there, a buncha guys in a mustang drove past us, turned around, came back, stopped and asked if we needed help. We said no, we're waiting for our friends to drive around, we're going to follow them to a restaurant. The mustang drove off, and I said, "Gee, they've got a GREAT neighborhood watch program here!".

LOL. Naive, I was. The Roi thinks this group in the mustang was a bunch of cops checking us out, and apparently they decided we looked really suspicious because we drove off, and next thing we knew, a cop was after us.

324 abolitionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:44:42pm

re: #321 WindUpBird

Are you saying you were also arrested, booked, and charged on no evidence whatsover ?

325 reine.de.tout  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:45:55pm

re: #324 abolitionist

Are you saying you were also arrested, booked, and charged on no evidence whatsover ?

I think he's pointing out my little story is pretty lame.
Which I guess in the grand scheme of things, it was.
Just not to me.

326 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 8:47:56pm

It is an insult to the natural order of things that Ed Meese should still be alive and spewing his fatassed fatheaded fatfaced bile when a good man like Daniel Schorr is in the grave.

Fuck you, Ed!

327 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 9:02:16pm

And if anyone wants to know why I hate the memory of Saint Reagan, it's because he appointed drooling shitemouths like Meese to the highest offices in the land.

Anyone remember James Watt?

Fuck you too, Ronald, you weren't half as smart as the horse you rode in on.

328 Mich-again  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 9:05:34pm

From what I can gather about Jimmy Carter's take on the "Plight of the Palestinians" (TM). There are two sets of standards, one for the Israelis, another for the Palistinians. Its the soft racism of lowered expectations.

329 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 9:29:26pm

re: #276 Spare O'Lake

Have you forgotten 1973?

Sorry, since the "Yom Kippur war," not the "Six Day war" is what I should have said. If you're old enough that 1967 and 1973 make a huge diffence to you, then I apologize for my inability to tell late 60's Mideast politics from early 70's mideast politics. I'm sure that most people would understand how they are significantly different today.

But when I said "Syria hasn't had the guts to actually throw down." I was just responding to someone else, with whom you should perhaps direct your objections, who said:

re: #201 Spare O'Lake

Israel has never been at peace with Syria.

I know of no Israel/Syria war either since back when Sid 'n Marty Kroft were all the rage (Gen X'ers, are ya with me?) so I'm going to say that whatever lack of peace that Israel and Syria have had since back in the day also constitutes no more than a "cold war." Or, whatever lack of open hosilities have occurred constitute the same.

Again, I may not be entirely informed on the issues on the ground, so if Israel and Syria have had open conflict since "the Space Nuts" was on Saturday mornings, please do let me know.

Until then, I'm going to assume that a cold peace is assumed, and that a real peace is the goal for both sides.

re: #328 Mich-again

From what I can gather about Jimmy Carter's take on the "Plight of the Palestinians" (TM). There are two sets of standards, one for the Israelis, another for the Palistinians. Its the soft racism of lowered expectations.

Yes.

The fact is, Palestinians have to carry special identification cards that identify them as second class citizens subject to higher security standards. It's literally apartheid: two classes of citizenry who are treated differently in the same country. If you live in the nation called "Israel" and happen to be a Palestinian, then a completely different set of laws apply to you than to an "Israeli citizen." The word for that is: Apartheid. If you disagree, then imagine that the same situation was playing out in any other country besides Israel. It would be apartheid. It is apartheid.

330 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 9:38:07pm

re: #329 elbruce


Yes.

The fact is, Palestinians have to carry special identification cards that identify them as second class citizens subject to higher security standards. It's literally apartheid: two classes of citizenry who are treated differently in the same country. If you live in the nation called "Israel" and happen to be a Palestinian, then a completely different set of laws apply to you than to an "Israeli citizen." The word for that is: Apartheid. If you disagree, then imagine that the same situation was playing out in any other country besides Israel. It would be apartheid. It is apartheid.

Palestinians are not citizens of Israel, so there are not 'two classes of citizenry'.

Israeli Arabs are citizens of Israel.

Please explain what you're talking about.

331 Reginald Perrin  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 9:44:50pm

re: #330 SanFranciscoZionist

Palestinians are not citizens of Israel, so there are not 'two classes of citizenry'.

Israeli Arabs are citizens of Israel.

Please explain what you're talking about.

SFZ
I know ElBruce and can vouch that he isn't here to troll.
He is into intellectual debate and never plays games. I am not enamoured of his choice of thread, this is a touchy subject here. Give him a chance and debate him fairly, I promise you will have a debate with a real adult

332 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 9:46:20pm

re: #331 Reginald Perrin

SFZ
I know ElBruce and can vouch that he isn't here to troll.
He is into intellectual debate and never plays games. I am not enamoured of his choice of thread, this is a touchy subject here. Give him a chance and debate him fairly, I promise you will have a debate with a real adult

Good to know.

333 Reginald Perrin  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 9:52:50pm

re: #332 SanFranciscoZionist

Good to know.

He is from Think Progress and he is Ludwig on valium. He likes to make well reasoned arguments and on other less "sticky" issues, he is a good debating partner. I have never seen him lose it, he is always calm.

You may not agree with everything he says but you will agree with the way he presents his argument, like an adult.

334 elbruce  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 11:40:11pm

re: #330 SanFranciscoZionist

Palestinians are not citizens of Israel, so there are not 'two classes of citizenry'.

Israeli Arabs are citizens of Israel.

Please explain what you're talking about.

The next time you see a headline reading "Palestinians and Israelis clash..." look at a map. Draw a line around the country where the Palestinians and Israelis live. Now tell me, who runs the country? Which country are they both supposed to be citizens of? Are they both counted as citizens of the country they live in? No? Only some of them? Then that system is called "apartheid."

If you disagree, then find me the country where the Palestinians have full rights to citizenship. I'll wait over here until you can point at any piece of ground in the world where one Palestinian is being afforded his full civil and human rights. Tick tock.

The simple fact is, if you say "these boundaries define my country" and then you have to have more than one class of citizens inside those boundaris, then you are failing to run your nation, at least as far as civil and human rights are concerned.

335 Cato the Elder  Fri, Aug 20, 2010 11:43:01pm

re: #334 elbruce

I see we have a "one-state-solutionist" here.

Go back to Think Progress and tell them we're not ready for your brand of insanity yet.

336 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:03:31am

re: #325 reine.de.tout

I think he's pointing out my little story is pretty lame.
Which I guess in the grand scheme of things, it was.
Just not to me.

I'm not saying it's lame, I'm just saying that I've know a few too many people who were arrested, and their lives thrown into turmoil for being in the wrong place, to ever subscribe to what Ronald Reagan's attorney general feels

337 Michael McBacon  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:20:18am

re: #334 elbruce

The next time you see a headline reading "Palestinians and Israelis clash..." look at a map. Draw a line around the country where the Palestinians and Israelis live. Now tell me, who runs the country? Which country are they both supposed to be citizens of? Are they both counted as citizens of the country they live in? No? Only some of them? Then that system is called "apartheid."

How come these days we hear about "Israeli Arabs" and no "Palestinian Jews"?
Whose "apartheid"?

If you disagree, then find me the country where the Palestinians have full rights to citizenship.

Hint: It's a democracy.

I'll wait over here until you can point at any piece of ground in the world where one Palestinian is being afforded his full civil and human rights.

Umm... there is a Palestinian Authority.

338 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:55:08am

re: #335 Cato the Elder

I see we have a "one-state-solutionist" here.

Hey, if you want to split it up and give the Palestinians full sovereignty over their own portion, let's talk. Doesn't sound so horrible to me. I was just talking about what is, not what could be.

re: #337 UNIXon

How come these days we hear about "Israeli Arabs" and no "Palestinian Jews"?
Whose "apartheid"?

I'm looking at a map of the middle east, and the region in question is called "Israel." They're the people in charge of that region bounded by those borders. If some of the native people living in that region aren't considered citizens of that country, then that's what apartheid is.

.

re: #337 UNIXon

Umm... there is a Palestinian Authority.

And they're in charge of what exactly? Whatever Israel lets them be in charge of. Which most of the time is nothing. Certainly no bounded region of a sovereign state, which is what would be required to be a citizen of your own nation instead of a subject of apartheid living in somebody else's nation.

.

Look people, if you have a different definition of apartheid than "lives within the contiguous boundaries of this country but is not a citizen of any country" then I'd be fascinated to hear it. But so far, I've heard nothing to logically differentiate the current Palestinian situation from the previous South African (native) situation. If you can explain the difference, please do.

339 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:07:12am

re: #338 elbruce

Hey, if you want to split it up and give the Palestinians full sovereignty over their own portion, let's talk.

What do you think Israel and the Yishuv has been trying to do several times since 1937? Why didn't the Palestinians accept a state in 1937, 1947, after 1967 and in 2000?

If some of the native people living in that region aren't considered citizens of that country, then that's what apartheid is. ...And they're in charge of what exactly? Whatever Israel lets them be in charge of. Which most of the time is nothing. Certainly no bounded region of a sovereign state,

So according to your worldview, autonomy based on internationally binding agreements signed by the PLO (The 1993 Statement of Principles, the Oslo Accords, and the Wye River Agreements) are now a form of institutionalized apartheid.

If you were talking about the rights of Palestinians in neighboring Arab countries, you might have a point. Also, you might want to ask why the Jordanians unilaterally revoked the citizenship of the West Bank Palestinians.

340 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:14:59am

The journalists who hype up peace talks are the same ones who frame the Israeli government as "hardline right wing" (ironic, since Labor is in the government) and the PA as "moderates".

The reality is that the Palestinians have no political spectrum other than secular and religious hardliners and terrorists. There is no center or left that can survive and thrive in this environment.

341 elbruce  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 2:42:22am

re: #339 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

What do you think Israel and the Yishuv has been trying to do several times since 1937? Why didn't the Palestinians accept a state in 1937, 1947, after 1967 and in 2000?

Sounds like news to me. What was offered to them in 2000?

.

re: #339 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

So according to your worldview, autonomy based on internationally binding agreements signed by the PLO (The 1993 Statement of Principles, the Oslo Accords, and the Wye River Agreements) are now a form of institutionalized apartheid.

Either they have sovereign control over their own bounded sphere of land such that the people who live there are full citizens of that nation, or they are subject to some other sovereign entity who controls the bounded sphere of land and the residents are not full citizens of that nation. Pick one.

.

re: #339 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

If you were talking about the rights of Palestinians in neighboring Arab countries, you might have a point. Also, you might want to ask why the Jordanians unilaterally revoked the citizenship of the West Bank Palestinians.

It would be really nice if Jordan said that all Palestinians are Joradanian citizens. Is Israel willing to cede the land currently surrounding those citizens to Jordan?

.

The reality is that the Palestinians have no political spectrum other than secular and religious hardliners and terrorists. There is no center or left that can survive and thrive in this environment.

I'm sure it's helpful of you to tell them what they are in advance to rig the game. It's not like asking them what they believe would help lead to peace...

342 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 4:57:03am

re: #341 elbruce

Sounds like news to me. What was offered to them in 2000?

.

re: #339 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey


Either they have sovereign control over their own bounded sphere of land such that the people who live there are full citizens of that nation, or they are subject to some other sovereign entity who controls the bounded sphere of land and the residents are not full citizens of that nation. Pick one.

.

re: #339 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey


It would be really nice if Jordan said that all Palestinians are Joradanian citizens. Is Israel willing to cede the land currently surrounding those citizens to Jordan?

.


I'm sure it's helpful of you to tell them what they are in advance to rig the game. It's not like asking them what they believe would help lead to peace...

Instead of parroting the ignorant talking points of the Jew-haters, why don't you try doing a little research and independent thinking? Or are the facts on the ground too inconvenient for you?

343 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:04:49am

re: #341 elbruce

Either they have sovereign control over their own bounded sphere of land such that the people who live there are full citizens of that nation, or they are subject to some other sovereign entity who controls the bounded sphere of land and the residents are not full citizens of that nation. Pick one.

That's a false dichotomy. See my explanation above about autonomy and take Spare's advice on more doing research before dropping the apartheid accusation.

344 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:08:24am

re: #341 elbruce

Note: I used the word "dropping" by mistake. I meant that you should do more research before accusing Israel of apartheid.

345 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:41:41am

re: #329 elbruce

Israel fought Syrian forces while in Lebanon. Syria was busy meddling in Lebanon, who along with the PLO destroyed Lebanon in its civil war. They used the conflict in Lebanon to draw Israel in with repeated attacks on Israel's northern border in 1982 forward. Since then, there have been several assorted skirmishes, but Syria has lately taken to going after Israel via its proxies - Hizbullah and Hamas.

Syria backs those terror groups, providing them with logistics, safe havens for their leadership in Damascus, and as a conduit for weapons from Iran.

346 lawhawk  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 5:46:59am

re: #341 elbruce

Under Oslo the Palestinians do have sovereign control over areas in the West Bank. They have full control over what goes on in Gaza in its entirety. When Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005 - the Palestinians had a choice. Peace with Israel or war. The Gazans chose war. They backed Hamas. They backed rocket attacks on Israel because Israel refused to let Hamas terrorists engage in suicide attacks much as they did from the moment Oslo was signed.

As for what Israel offered - it was nearly all of the West Bank, all of Gaza, no right of return, and the Palestinians never even had the courtesy to provide a counter offer. Their response was attacking Israel with rockets.

The Palestinians have no interest in peace.

Name one instance where the Palestinians showed a willingness to make a single concession in the name of peace. Have they given up the right of return? No.

Have they given up their desire to drive Israel from the Old City of Jerusalem? No. Have they sought to protect religious freedom of non Muslims in the West Bank or Gaza? No.

Have the Palestinians even bothered to stop the incitement to violence and indoctrination into anti-Israel sentiment as per the Oslo Accords? No.

If the Palestinians can't even be bothered to stop the indoctrination against Israel, how can Israel expect the Palestinians to live up to any other obligation. Indeed, the Palestinians have created conditions entirely of their own making that prevent peace. When the Palestinians themselves decide that they want peace, they have a willing partner in Israel. The Palestinians have shown no interest in peace.

347 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 6:55:19am

re: #341 elbruce

Sounds like news to me. What was offered to them in 2000?

Almost 100% of the land and State they supposedly want (with border adjustments) plus the division of Jerusalem and billions of dollars in international aid for the the real and fake refugees (2nd, 3rd and 4th generation "refugees") - all in return for a commitment to end of the conflict.

They said no and launched a war.

348 davesax  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 12:59:40pm

re: #343 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

I'm not a middle east analyst, but my amature impression, after reading Jeffrey Goldberg's piece in the Atlantic, is that this is really all about Iran.

According to that piece, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and UAE are pushing for an attack on Iran by either the U.S. or Israel. Saudi Arabia is even willing to allow the Israeli airforce to refuel on Saudi soil to achieve this.

The unspoken deadline is July 2011, and virtually noone in the middle east believes Iran can be stopped by sanctions alone.

So, in addition to Obama's ambitions to broker a deal, I bet that the Saudis, Egyptians, etc, leaned on Abbas to engage in direct talks, as a counterbalance to the inevitable outcry that is expected when war breaks out.

349 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Sat, Aug 21, 2010 1:43:57pm

re: #348 davesax

Thanks for that interesting analysis, but I'm not sure about the conclusion. Here's my amateur impression: Turkey's influence has been on the rise recently, so maybe this is Saudi Arabia's and Egypt's way of getting back in the game. The latter also have a strong interest that the PA and Hamas reconcile so that Gaza returns to PA rule.

In any case, I tend to believe that regardless of who's in power in the US, there's a dynamic at play that requires each administration to show some kind of virtual progress on the "peace process" even when it's hopeless.


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