A classic moment from last night’s MSNBC coverage, as Chris Matthews asks a glassy-eyed robotic Michele Bachmann if she’s been hypnotized.
In the parallel universe of right wing blogs, they’re all cheering about how Bachmann “humiliated,” “slapped down,” “pulverized,” “mocked,” “crushed,” and “punked” Matthews. Heh.
2 |
MinisterO Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:49:09pm |
I didn’t see what the righties saw. Crazy woman looked crazy. Matthews didn’t seem angry or shocked.
| 3 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:49:41pm |
I’ve been told she ‘punked’ him.
Right here on LGF.
| 4 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:49:49pm |
I did not consider this scenario: the Tea Baggers are all going to vehemently insist that everything the do not like should be investigated and will make a crusade out of it, and even the cooler heads of the GOP will be powerless to shut them up.
| 5 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:49:51pm |
Michelle Bachmann proved to me she was insane when she said she would start having committee hearings to investigate “anti American” sentiment in the government. Seriously, Michelle people who disagree with you aren’t anti American. They just disagree with you. I know that shocks you that I an American liberal actaully love my country but it’s true. Also, this is the woman who blamed the tariff that caused the depression on FDR and the Dems getting its name wrong and neglecting to mention it was Hoover who signed it.
| 6 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:50:45pm |
re: #2 MinisterO
I didn’t see what the righties saw. Crazy woman looked crazy. Matthews didn’t seem angry or shocked.
Actually, you did:
The difference is, we call it zoned out space cadet crazy, they just think it’s how people are supposed to behave
| 7 |
Shiplord Kirel Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:51:12pm |
I get a tingle when I see Bachmann——-right at the back of my neck——-like some nutbar sniper is watching me through a scope.
| 8 |
theheat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:51:27pm |
Sharpie toxicity. From the eyebrows directly to the brain. More dangerous than cell phones, and seriously underreported.
| 9 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:51:52pm |
Could be that she just forgot to take her meds in all the excitement…
| 10 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:52:00pm |
Her eyes are glazed, her affect is completely flat, and if you saw the whole thing she was robotically parroting the same words over and over. I laughed out loud when Matthews asked this question, because I was thinking the same thing.
| 11 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:52:11pm |
re: #5 HappyWarrior
she was also fixated on Teach America (or some such) being some commie plot for a while - until her own son refudiated her and signed up.
| 12 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:52:28pm |
GOP Lives Up To Rhetoric, Demands TARP Money Back From Banksters, Eliminates Harmful And Expensive Subsidies And Tax Breaks To Multinational Corporations That Move Jobs Overseas, Harm The American Middle Class And Small Businesses, And Expatriate Profits To Offshore Tax Havens
in other news, pigs make startling new breakthroughs in aerodynamic efficiency
| 13 |
wrenchwench Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:52:34pm |
re: #9 ralphieboy
Could be that she just forgot to take her meds in all the excitement…
I’m thinkin’ she doubled up.
| 14 |
Vambo Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:52:46pm |
Bein’ a conservative free marketer, it means ya don’t haveta answer them liberal gotcha media questions. Or any questions, from anyone.
| 15 |
Sergeant Major Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:53:06pm |
I’m glad I don’t watch MSNBC…judging by their ratings I’m not the only one.
| 16 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:53:06pm |
| 17 |
3eff Jeff Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:53:14pm |
re: #8 theheat
Sharpie toxicity. From the eyebrows directly to the brain. More dangerous than cell phones, and seriously underreported.
You think you’re joking (3rd paragraph): [Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 18 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:53:22pm |
re: #11 wozzablog
she was also fixated on Teach America (or some such) being some commie plot for a while - until her own son refudiated her and signed up.
She really is something else. Muy loco.
| 19 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:53:47pm |
re: #7 Shiplord Kirel
I get a tingle when I see Bachmann—-right at the back of my neck—-like some nutbar sniper is watching me through a scope.
When i was a kid, a friend of mine had a mother that Bachmann reminds me of, she would literally lose her son in her own house, call our house looking for him, then later she’d discover he was upstairs in his room playing guitar the whole time
She always had that flattened affect not-really-communicating-with-you thing going on
| 20 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:53:59pm |
re: #12 engineer dog
GOP Lives Up To Rhetoric, Demands TARP Money Back From Banksters, Eliminates Harmful And Expensive Subsidies And Tax Breaks To Multinational Corporations That Move Jobs Overseas, Harm The American Middle Class And Small Businesses, And Expatriate Profits To Offshore Tax Havens
in other news, pigs make startling new breakthroughs in aerodynamic efficiency
the swine.
| 21 |
darthstar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:54:23pm |
re: #10 Charles
Her eyes are glazed, her affect is completely flat, and if you saw the whole thing she was robotically parroting the same words over and over. I laughed out loud when Matthews asked this question, because I was thinking the same thing.
Michele Bachmann…America wants to know…Are you…experienced? Have you ever been experienced?
| 22 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:54:38pm |
re: #15 Sergeant Major
I’m glad I don’t watch MSNBC…judging by their ratings I’m not the only one.
why would anybody?…some things are best left ignored
| 23 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:54:42pm |
re: #15 Sergeant Major
I’m glad I don’t watch MSNBC…judging by their ratings I’m not the only one.
Yes, because it’s totally MSNBC’s fault that Bachmann downed a bunch of percosets and drooled in front of a television camera for an entire segment
| 24 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:54:43pm |
Matthews was mocking her personally for her inarticulate repetitive answers, and more generally the fact that the gop has few new ideas. Just slogans like cutting taxes and balancing the budget with no concrete plans for how to do either responsibly.
Righties like it because she brought up the tingling leg. It’s their equivalent to Andy McCarthy’s statement back in 2008 that Palin’s convention speech made him “sit up straighter in his chair and see starbursts.” Sexual metaphors generally backfire on political pundits.
| 26 |
theheat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:55:02pm |
re: #8 theheat
Per Yahoo answers:
Sharpies contain: n-propanol, n-butanol, diacetone alcohol, xylene, and cresol. I think these are relatives of acetone “diacetone” is likely a very close chemical to acetone.
She may as well be mainlining that stuff.
| 27 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:55:34pm |
re: #3 Obdicut
I’ve been told she ‘punked’ him.
Right here on LGF.
This sweet morning. I laughed, typed a snide response, then just decided the argument wasn’t worth it.
rotflmao dude. (that’s how I always see his nic)
| 28 |
3eff Jeff Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:56:36pm |
re: #26 theheat
Wikipedia says the same thing. They go right through the skin and burn up brain cells.
| 29 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:56:44pm |
re: #25 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Stepford Wives much anyone?
Exactly how Charles described that Blackburn creature from TN.
| 30 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:56:48pm |
re: #3 Obdicut
I’ve been told she ‘punked’ him.
Right here on LGF.
People see what they want to see. If she made a comment about the tingling leg, that trumps everything to some righties because she insulted him, and substance doesn’t really matter anyway. This was a backlash election, demagogued by the gop all along; substance is irrelevant in such a strategy.
| 32 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:57:10pm |
| 33 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:57:20pm |
re: #19 WindUpBird
When i was a kid, a friend of mine had a mother that Bachmann reminds me of, she would literally lose her son in her own house, call our house looking for him, then later she’d discover he was upstairs in his room playing guitar the whole time
She always had that flattened affect not-really-communicating-with-you thing going on
How was the show???
| 34 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:57:28pm |
re: #26 theheat
Per Yahoo answers:
She may as well be mainlining that stuff.
huffing krylon in the women’s room, reading her bible upside down, then some aide bursts in. “MICHELLE! YOU HAVE TO BE ON IN TWO MINUTES!”
“mmmkaaay..lemme git muh notes…I god theesh talking possthshhh…”
| 35 |
theheat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:58:16pm |
re: #28 3eff Jeff
Sharpies contain: n-propanol, n-butanol, diacetone alcohol and cresol. The first of these, n-propanol, is commonly used in cosmetics. The other three, however, are industrial solvents, chemicals that should not be sniffed, eaten, or put on the skin. As solvents, they penetrate the skin and fingernails and can enter the bloodstream.
Substance abuse, pure and simple.
| 36 |
wrenchwench Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:58:37pm |
re: #19 WindUpBird
When i was a kid, a friend of mine had a mother that Bachmann reminds me of, she would literally lose her son in her own house, call our house looking for him, then later she’d discover he was upstairs in his room playing guitar the whole time
She always had that flattened affect not-really-communicating-with-you thing going on
Sharpies and Xanax?
| 37 |
darthstar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:58:54pm |
After Eric Cantor’s interview (which followed Bachmann’s, but was more steeped in fecal matter), Lawrence O’Donnell said, “Why do we even bother talking to these people? They never say anything!” Keith and Chris started to defend interviewing Republicans, and Lawrence said, “It’s just a waste of time talking to them.”
| 38 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:58:57pm |
re: #26 theheat
Per Yahoo answers:
She may as well be mainlining that stuff.
probably Vicoden….lots of junkies out tjere
| 39 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:59:09pm |
| 40 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:59:10pm |
re: #15 Sergeant Major
I’m glad I don’t watch MSNBC…judging by their ratings I’m not the only one.
Because only ratings indicate quality?
By that standard, American Idol and Housewives of Beverly Hills are the best shows on TV, while Mad Men and old shows like the Sopranos were crap.
You’re parroting Limbaugh re Fox. Neither bright nor original.
| 41 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:59:20pm |
| 42 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 3, 2010 1:59:56pm |
re: #31 Stanley Sea
Meds. And supporters.
Sure, her and Steve King are going to be happy now that they will have more crazies in their midst in the new Congress.
| 43 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:00:10pm |
re: #40 palomino
Because only ratings indicate quality?
By that standard, American Idol and Housewives of Beverly Hills are the best shows on TV, while Mad Men and old shows like the Sopranos were crap.
You’re parroting Limbaugh re Fox. Neither bright nor original.
And don’t forget Macdonalds serves the worlds finest gourmet food - otherwise why would so many people eat there?
| 44 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:00:16pm |
re: #23 WindUpBird
Yes, because it’s totally MSNBC’s fault that Bachmann downed a bunch of percosets and drooled in front of a television camera for an entire segment
In her defense it was a tough nite, and her mental illness requires LOTS of medication.
| 45 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:00:55pm |
re: #40 palomino
Because only ratings indicate quality?
By that standard, American Idol and Housewives of Beverly Hills are the best shows on TV, while Mad Men and old shows like the Sopranos were crap.
You’re parroting Limbaugh re Fox. Neither bright nor original.
The Sergeant Major listens to a lot of Britney Spears and O-Town and Justin Bieber
“hey, this is great music! The ratings are AWESOME! Did you know how many albums these people sell?”
| 47 |
theheat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:01:48pm |
re: #38 albusteve
“Vicodin does not make your eyebrows look like two arched cats in heat, I don’t give a shit how much you ingest.” (Sort of paraphrasing George Clooney, in From Dusk Til Dawn.)
She’s suffering for her art. Her eyebrow art. It shows how much she cares.
| 48 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:02:24pm |
re: #45 WindUpBird
The Sergeant Major listens to a lot of Britney Spears and O-Town and Justin Bieber
“hey, this is great music! The ratings are AWESOME! Did you know how many albums these people sell?”
A sergeant major who loves Justin Bieber? Wonder how he feels about DADT?
| 49 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:02:34pm |
re: #45 WindUpBird
The Sergeant Major listens to a lot of Britney Spears and O-Town and Justin Bieber
“hey, this is great music! The ratings are AWESOME! Did you know how many albums these people sell?”
Is he a Twilight fan? :D
| 50 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:02:58pm |
Notes from the Zionist Occupation of Remulak.
Android engineer second class [redacted] was disciplined last night with a forced probulation and being forced to watch Paris Hilton interviews and music videos for 8 hours without break.
Android engineer second class [redacted] failed to update the glitchy emotional response software on the Bachmann unit. He had been given accolades for cutting costs by using the CPU of an Atari 2600 as the core AI reasoning hardware in the unit which is why his discipline was so mild.
After he recovers, he will be placed back on active duty.
| 51 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:03:08pm |
re: #48 palomino
A sergeant major who loves Justin Bieber? Wonder how he feels about DADT?
he won’t tell if we don’t ask……………
is he still here?
| 52 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:03:26pm |
re: #43 wozzablog
And don’t forget Macdonalds serves the worlds finest gourmet food - otherwise why would so many people eat there?
I love these waxy hershey’s chocolate bars, they’re awesome because so many other people eat them, that makes them way more delicious than any of that liberal hippie chocolate with all that “cacao” I mean, what does that word even mean
| 53 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:03:52pm |
re: #47 theheat
“Vicodin does not make your eyebrows look like two arched cats in heat, I don’t give a shit how much you ingest.” (Sort of paraphrasing George Clooney, in From Dusk Til Dawn.)
She’s suffering for her art. Her eyebrow art. It shows how much she cares.
twas merely a guess…and in fact I meant to say Valium…I’m the Vicodin junkie
| 54 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:03:55pm |
re: #48 palomino
A sergeant major who loves Justin Bieber? Wonder how he feels about DADT?
DADT? I don’t know, how many albums did they sell?
| 55 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:03:55pm |
re: #10 Charles
Her eyes are glazed, her affect is completely flat, and if you saw the whole thing she was robotically parroting the same words over and over. I laughed out loud when Matthews asked this question, because I was thinking the same thing.
Again, it was a shocking failure in our tech department. The Zionists of Remulak expect much better quality control.
| 56 |
theheat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:04:08pm |
re: #38 albusteve
Again, replace psychos with Vicodin, and sunlight with Sharpies… you get the idea.
| 57 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:04:16pm |
re: #51 wozzablog
he won’t tell if we don’t ask…
is he still here?
I think he had to go salute something
| 58 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:04:31pm |
Populism = (by extension) Quality FTW!!!!!!
| 59 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:04:39pm |
re: #38 albusteve
probably Vicoden…lots of junkies out tjere
she can’t be a junkie. she IS family values, she said so herself.
| 60 |
darthstar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:05:00pm |
This woman deserves “Best Mother of the Year”…
So a few weeks before Halloween, Boo decides he wants to be Daphne from Scooby Doo, along with his best friend E. He had dressed as Scooby a couple of years ago. I was hesitant to make the purchase, not because it was a cross gendered situation, but because 5 year olds have a tendency to change their minds. After requesting a couple of more times, I said sure and placed the order. He flipped out when it arrived. It was perfect.
…snip…
If you think that me allowing my son to be a female character for Halloween is somehow going to ‘make’ him gay then you are an idiot. Firstly, what a ridiculous concept. Secondly, if my son is gay, OK. I will love him no less. Thirdly, I am not worried that your son will grow up to be an actual ninja so back off.
Read the whole thing…it’s pretty awesome.
| 61 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:05:09pm |
re: #57 WindUpBird
I think he had to go salute something
his Bachmann shrine?…………. (if thats what the kids are calling it these days)
| 62 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:05:38pm |
re: #60 darthstar
OMG what a cute kid :D :D
| 63 |
darthstar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:05:43pm |
| 64 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:05:50pm |
re: #22 albusteve
why would anybody?…some things are best left ignored
add fox to that list. but it’s a bright shiny object, how can it be ignored?
| 65 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:06:03pm |
re: #53 albusteve
twas merely a guess…and in fact I meant to say Valium…I’m the Vicodin junkie
When you’re in pain, Vicodin does not get you high, it just stops the pain.
| 66 |
darthstar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:06:11pm |
re: #62 WindUpBird
OMG what a cute kid :D :D
And a great story. I love the way the mother handled the other mothers.
| 67 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:06:27pm |
re: #59 palomino
she can’t be a junkie. she IS family values, she said so herself.
addiction…a typical aspect of the fabric of family life
| 68 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:08:03pm |
Speaking of Halloween, I should have been Alan from the Hangover.
| 69 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:08:11pm |
re: #67 albusteve
addiction…a typical aspect of the fabric of family life
that’s for damn sure. and all the work/denial it takes to be so really good at hiding it.
| 70 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:08:31pm |
And then Mom C approaches. She had been in the main room, saw us walk in, and followed us down the hall to let me know her thoughts. And they were that I should never have ‘allowed’ this and thank God it wasn’t next year when he was in Kindergarten since I would have had to put my foot down and ‘forbidden’ it. To which I calmly replied that I would do no such thing and couldn’t imagine what she was talking about. She continued on and on about how mean children could be and how he would be ridiculed.
If Mom C said such a thing to my mother about what I was wearing for halloween, her bitch ass would be on the floor, heh
| 71 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:08:55pm |
I hope everyone noticed how the great scandal of a few days ago, in which Sarah Palin and practically every right wing blog hyped the Andrew Breitbart story about the reporters plotting how to sabotage Joe Miller’s campaign, seems to have completely vanished into the mist.
| 72 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:09:00pm |
re: #65 Alouette
When you’re in pain, Vicodin does not get you high, it just stops the pain.
it doesn’t even stop the pain for me anymore…but my pain levels are way down from what they were so I’m good there…I’ve intoxicated myself but good a few times in the last 2 years and rarely use it now….a milestone for me, and btw I never got a decent buzz from the stuff anyway
| 73 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:09:01pm |
| 74 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:09:13pm |
I hear ev’ry mother say
Mother needs something today to calm her down
And though she’s not really ill
There’s a little yellow pill
She goes running for the shelter of a mother’s little helper
And it helps her on her way, gets her through her busy day
| 75 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:09:47pm |
re: #66 darthstar
And a great story. I love the way the mother handled the other mothers.
Sometimes, you just gotta look at a parent and go “yep, you’re a dumbass and your kid’s either going to be pumping gas or selling cars”
| 76 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:10:00pm |
re: #74 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I hear ev’ry mother say
Mother needs something today to calm her down
And though she’s not really ill
There’s a little yellow pill
She goes running for the shelter of a mother’s little helper
And it helps her on her way, gets her through her busy day
Damn good song, updinged.
| 77 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:10:05pm |
re: #71 Charles
The reporters got fired for unprofessionalism, but the station held firm that they were in no way planning sabotage.
| 78 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:10:47pm |
re: #74 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I hear ev’ry mother say
Mother needs something today to calm her down
And though she’s not really ill
There’s a little yellow pill
She goes running for the shelter of a mother’s little helper
And it helps her on her way, gets her through her busy day
good one
2 pts
| 79 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:12:01pm |
re: #71 Charles
I hope everyone noticed how the great scandal of a few days ago, in which Sarah Palin and practically every right wing blog hyped the Andrew Breitbart story about the reporters plotting how to sabotage Joe Miller’s campaign, seems to have completely vanished into the mist.
I am not surprised. Whole thing stank honest It’s not like Breitbart is credible at all. Not that it stopped Palin. I love that it looks like Murkowski is going to beat Miller. Not because I particularly like her but because Palin’s political capital looks to be in the dump because of that,
| 80 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:12:37pm |
Here’s a graphic that helps to explain a lot of the differences between the 2008 and 2010 results.Turnout reversal from 2008.
| 81 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:13:22pm |
re: #79 HappyWarrior
I am not surprised. Whole thing stank honest It’s not like Breitbart is credible at all. Not that it stopped Palin. I love that it looks like Murkowski is going to beat Miller. Not because I particularly like her but because Palin’s political capital looks to be in the dump because of that,
Murkowski has the right kind of enemies at this point.
| 82 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:13:36pm |
re: #77 Obdicut
The reporters got fired for unprofessionalism, but the station held firm that they were in no way planning sabotage.
I think it’s ridiculous to fire the reporters, honestly. Are they trying to create an atmosphere in which their journalists are afraid to brainstorm ideas?
But the real point is that there were no more tapes or transcripts. That was it. That was all Breitbart had. And once again, innocent people were hurt because of his smears.
| 83 |
Slap Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:14:41pm |
re: #77 Obdicut
Yeah, the paper handled that right — they poured bright light all over everything and stood their ground.
Bright light and wacko paranoia don’t usually mix.
| 84 |
HappyWarrior Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:15:00pm |
re: #81 wozzablog
Murkowski has the right kind of enemies at this point.
Yes, it seems that Palin’s whole vendetta against her stems from her getting the seat when Palin felt I guess she was more qualified than Murkowski for that seat. Of course the irony is Palin ends up supporting Joe Miller who I don’t even know if he’s been elected anywhere before.
| 85 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:15:07pm |
Just to reiterate Humans…
Intergalactic Zionism is about a lot more than conquering Earth. Due to resource demands (mostly due to our activities in what you would call the Arcturus cluster) we have had to make do with some shoddy import work from the Greys.
Those creeps always try to undercut the market! Sometimes, they make some really good stuff, but in general, they will try to sell you a nickel for a dollar and make some really horrible knock off stuff out of substandard parts. Greys even defraud their own people. The things I could tell you about what they add to their foodstuffs in order to pass minimal government standards! But I digress…
For sometime, many parts for our GOP bots have been subcontracted out to horrible Grey sweatshop labor in order to cut costs.
I had argued that you Humans would surely notice the blank stares, processing glitches and $cientologist like zombie looks of the GOP bots. Our psycho-linguistics department said you monkey boys were too stupid to notice.
It looks like we were both right. Some of you noticed. However, enough of you did not notice, that the plans of Remulak continue unabated!
| 86 |
Political Atheist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:16:31pm |
I get two impressions, different than Chris or Charles-
I swear she was out smoking Prop 19 substances before the interview, and then the crowd drowned out Chris almost entirely. Or an alien robotron is in her head…
| 87 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:16:32pm |
re: #71 Charles
I hope everyone noticed how the great scandal of a few days ago, in which Sarah Palin and practically every right wing blog hyped the Andrew Breitbart story about the reporters plotting how to sabotage Joe Miller’s campaign, seems to have completely vanished into the mist.
It was never more than mist to begin with.
| 88 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:16:55pm |
gach, and i haven’t even said
Bachmann (R) - Z’ha’Dum
yet……… as is my tradition.
| 89 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:16:56pm |
Add Ken Buck to the list of Tea Party senate republican fail
| 90 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:17:14pm |
re: #85 LudwigVanQuixote
Just to reiterate Humans…
Intergalactic Zionism is about a lot more than conquering Earth. Due to resource demands (mostly due to our activities in what you would call the Arcturus cluster) we have had to make do with some shoddy import work from the Greys.
Those creeps always try to undercut the market! Sometimes, they make some really good stuff, but in general, they will try to sell you a nickel for a dollar and make some really horrible knock off stuff out of substandard parts. Greys even defraud their own people. The things I could tell you about what they add to their foodstuffs in order to pass minimal government standards! But I digress…
For sometime, many parts for our GOP bots have been subcontracted out to horrible Grey sweatshop labor in order to cut costs.
I had argued that you Humans would surely notice the blank stares, processing glitches and $cientologist like zombie looks of the GOP bots. Our psycho-linguistics department said you monkey boys were too stupid to notice.
It looks like we were both right. Some of you noticed. However, enough of you did not notice, that the plans of Remulak continue unabated!
Show off.
//
| 91 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:17:36pm |
I’m still laughing at Sister Sarah’s twitter meltdown over the Politico article.
Who watched Obama today at the presser? In your mind, conjure up a comparison of how that idjit would handle it.
St. RR’s 100th birthday. Just wait.
| 92 |
theheat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:17:36pm |
re: #84 HappyWarrior
Funny thing, a quitter being so concerned about what happens in ber political backyard after she quits. The woman wears stupid like a merit badge.
| 93 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:18:13pm |
re: #82 Charles
I think it’s ridiculous to fire the reporters, honestly. Are they trying to create an atmosphere in which their journalists are afraid to brainstorm ideas?
But the real point is that there were no more tapes or transcripts. That was it. That was all Breitbart had. And once again, innocent people were hurt because of his smears.
too bad that gig didn’t get more traction….he needs a major cred takedown
| 94 |
webevintage Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:19:38pm |
re: #37 darthstar
After Eric Cantor’s interview (which followed Bachmann’s, but was more steeped in fecal matter), Lawrence O’Donnell said, “Why do we even bother talking to these people? They never say anything!” Keith and Chris started to defend interviewing Republicans, and Lawrence said, “It’s just a waste of time talking to them.”
I thought Lawrence O’Donnell and Maddow did a really good job last night.
Matthews and Olberman…not so much.
But yeah, the Bachman interview was hilarious….
| 95 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:20:45pm |
re: #85 LudwigVanQuixote
Just to reiterate Humans…
Intergalactic Zionism is about a lot more than conquering Earth. Due to resource demands (mostly due to our activities in what you would call the Arcturus cluster) we have had to make do with some shoddy import work from the Greys.
Those creeps always try to undercut the market! Sometimes, they make some really good stuff, but in general, they will try to sell you a nickel for a dollar and make some really horrible knock off stuff out of substandard parts. Greys even defraud their own people. The things I could tell you about what they add to their foodstuffs in order to pass minimal government standards! But I digress…
For sometime, many parts for our GOP bots have been subcontracted out to horrible Grey sweatshop labor in order to cut costs.
I had argued that you Humans would surely notice the blank stares, processing glitches and $cientologist like zombie looks of the GOP bots. Our psycho-linguistics department said you monkey boys were too stupid to notice.
It looks like we were both right. Some of you noticed. However, enough of you did not notice, that the plans of Remulak continue unabated!
Asking if you could successfully dupe a Tea Partier is like asking if the God-Emperor sits much.
| 96 |
MurphysMom Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:21:13pm |
Michelle Bachman’s eyes have always seemed a little strange to me. Almost too light-colored for her skin tone and hair … maybe it’s her makeup. But I think Matthews was just upset about the snarky sign in the background. (I would be, too, but he’s supposed to be a professional.) The proof, and the best part, was at the end when he got all defensive about getting a thrill up his leg.
| 97 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:21:44pm |
I think politics is going to start to get very interesting now that these people have some power. I’m sure they’ll waste a lot of time with bullshit and investigations. They are going to do as little as possible but they are going to have to actually govern and the Tea Party agenda doesn’t work in the real world.
Make way for gridlock
One of the first tests of his ability to discipline populist revolutionaries fresh from the electoral barricades will come when the new Congress is asked to raise the federal debt limit from $12.4 trillion to $14.3 trillion. No Congress has ever refused to approve such an increase and, if such a refusal were to occur, the consequences for the global financial system would be apocalyptic. Many of the new senators and House members have pledged to vote against an increase in the debt. Tim Phillips, president of Americans for Prosperity — one of the more active national tea party groups — told Politico this week that the Republicans’ new House majority “cannot fold on the debt.”
It’s a very spooky prospect. What will they do? Follow the Tea Party and cause a global financial catastrophe? They are going to have to vote to raise the debt limit. They have to, there’s no choice.
| 98 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:22:10pm |
re: #85 LudwigVanQuixote
You need to take this show on the road. Remember that PBS guy who did political commentary with a piano and music? He was terrific.
And, you could do that Haider Collision song, a cappela.
| 99 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:23:00pm |
re: #92 theheat
Funny thing, a quitter being so concerned about what happens in ber political backyard after she quits. The woman wears stupid like a merit badge.
then consider her supporters
| 100 |
Jack Burton Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:23:25pm |
re: #88 wozzablog
gach, and i haven’t even said
yet… as is my tradition.
For her I prefer Bachmann (R) - Mars (or perhas Bachmann (R) - Tantalus IV)
Had O’Donnell or Angle been elected I would have probably used:
Sharron Angle (R) - Korriban and Christine O’Donnell (R) - Dromund Kaas
| 101 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:23:35pm |
re: #93 albusteve
too bad that gig didn’t get more traction…he needs a major cred takedown
Eventually, that story will get told.
| 103 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:25:42pm |
re: #97 Killgore Trout
I think politics is going to start to get very interesting now that these people have some power. I’m sure they’ll waste a lot of time with bullshit and investigations. They are going to do as little as possible but they are going to have to actually govern and the Tea Party agenda doesn’t work in the real world.
Make way for gridlock
It’s a very spooky prospect. What will they do? Follow the Tea Party and cause a global financial catastrophe? They are going to have to vote to raise the debt limit. They have to, there’s no choice.
Boehner will have to keep his house under control…wide eyed newbies might have to be smacked around for a while….I don’t think it’s going to be an issue
| 104 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:26:06pm |
| 105 |
JeffFX Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:27:09pm |
re: #88 wozzablog
Between the sharpies and Xanax last summer, and the Babylon 5 reference, I want to party with wozzablog.
| 106 |
Slap Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:27:38pm |
re: #104 researchok
I’m always good for random bits of music-related trivia.
Mrs. Slap tolerates it very sweetly.
| 107 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:27:49pm |
re: #96 MurphysMom
Michelle Bachman’s eyes have always seemed a little strange to me. Almost too light-colored for her skin tone and hair … maybe it’s her makeup. But I think Matthews was just upset about the snarky sign in the background. (I would be, too, but he’s supposed to be a professional.) The proof, and the best part, was at the end when he got all defensive about getting a thrill up his leg.
“Defensive?” I don’t see that at all.
And it’s not unprofessional to ask someone who appears to be hypnotized if they are, in fact, hypnotized.
| 108 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:27:53pm |
re: #101 researchok
Eventually, that story will get told.
ordinarily I wouldn’t give a shit about the guy at all, not really being media oriented….but abusing people is a thing a won’t forgive…I’d bust him myself if I could, the fucking bully
| 109 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:28:51pm |
re: #103 albusteve
Boehner will have to keep his house under control…wide eyed newbies might have to be smacked around for a while…I don’t think it’s going to be an issue
There’s a problem with that. The Tea Parties aren’t going to be happy is the new Republican congress governs responsibly. What are the chances that the Tea Parties and Fox News are going to continue to support Republicans after voting to raise the debt limit?
| 110 |
darthstar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:29:38pm |
re: #96 MurphysMom
Michelle Bachman’s eyes have always seemed a little strange to me. Almost too light-colored for her skin tone and hair … maybe it’s her makeup. But I think Matthews was just upset about the snarky sign in the background. (I would be, too, but he’s supposed to be a professional.) The proof, and the best part, was at the end when he got all defensive about getting a thrill up his leg.
Given that Bachmann was wearing Cougar-tramp chic, I’d say that leg tingling was projection on her part.
| 111 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:30:01pm |
re: #108 albusteve
ordinarily I wouldn’t give a shit about the guy at all, not really being media oriented…but abusing people is a thing a won’t forgive…I’d bust him myself if I could, the fucking bully
I had to laugh- Breitbart complained ABC ‘hurt his brand’.
Like that is his problem.
| 112 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:31:10pm |
re: #105 JeffFX
Between the sharpies and Xanax last summer, and the Babylon 5 reference, I want to party with wozzablog.
Everybody does………… but no-one seems to remember.
| 113 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:31:57pm |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
There’s a problem with that. The Tea Parties aren’t going to be happy is the new Republican congress governs responsibly. What are the chances that the Tea Parties and Fox News are going to continue to support Republicans after voting to raise the debt limit?
you say that as if it’s a bad thing…I don’t have an answer, but it will sort itself out…lets hope the TP is past it’s zenith already, maybe they will fade or evolve into something more reasoned
| 114 |
Political Atheist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:32:36pm |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
There’s a problem with that. The Tea Parties aren’t going to be happy is the new Republican congress governs responsibly. What are the chances that the Tea Parties and Fox News are going to continue to support Republicans after voting to raise the debt limit?
It’s quite possible the Tea Parties will fold, in the sense that A-The GOP PAC that backs the TP has a better grasp of political reality (no Social Security takedown will be contemplated) And B-The Tea Party will have the same experience the left did as Obama kept Gitmo open, failed to get the full blown public option Medical reform out there, and kept many Bush era policies on spying for the GWOT. In other words reality is a harsh teacher.
| 115 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:32:39pm |
re: #111 researchok
I had to laugh- Breitbart complained ABC ‘hurt his brand’.
Like that is his problem.
thinks he’s Gene Simmons
| 117 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:33:35pm |
re: #90 researchok
Show off.
//
You can’t beat the forces of Remulak. I tell you humans this because it will plant the horrible truth in your minds as a possibility.
The horrible truth is, like I said, that we are going to let you fuck up your planet to the brink of extinction - so badly that even your Republicans will not be able to miss it was all your fault.
Then when we take over, you will love us. We will clean up your messes, re-educate the more useful ones like you and put the GOP true believers into zoos for the amusement of children. And you will love us for it!
We could easily, barrage your cities from orbit and crush your military. We want you scared of that possibility. Why do you think we have been making movies for the last 60 years where aliens come and beat the snot out of your planet? That way, when we come to save you, you will be doubly grateful.
I mean get real, we have the capacity for interstellar travel, and you guys are so primitive that you still think the internet is for porn. Well it is… but you can also use it to get the collected knowledge of civilizations instantly, something you lot have missed.
But I digress. If we crushed your military and vaporized your cities from orbit, it would take generations of re-education to get you to stop hating us. It is much more efficient to let you nearly wipe yourselves out and then have you love us. And boy are you monkey boys good at that. You actually think Palin is smart!
Can you lot read thermometers? Civilizations vastly more primitive than yours can do that. It isn’t hard! There are all of your thermometers, and you are stupid enough to think they aren’t going up! Less than one out of a thousand planets is a garden planet like yours, and you treat it like it is nothing - before you even have the capacity to leave it! Even your pets know not to shit where they sleep! Then you get back to using the internet for porn - and many of you pleasure yourselves while thinking of Palin!
You do realize that we constructed her from zoological waste and the genes of a hairless howler monkey? No… probably not. Heh, when we take over your planet, and turn it into a resort, and you are serving us umbrella drinks on the beaches of Pennsylvania, many of you will still think she’s hot! When we take your most beautiful and intelligent females (the real reason we are here) for ourselves, and whisk them off to a live of luxury, enlightenment and hyper-dimensional sexual gratification, you will still think the internet is for porn!
But you will be alive and you will love us for it, because you know full well how you lot can’t be left to run your own planet.
| 118 |
Joanne Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:34:04pm |
re: #10 Charles
Her eyes are glazed, her affect is completely flat, and if you saw the whole thing she was robotically parroting the same words over and over. I laughed out loud when Matthews asked this question, because I was thinking the same thing.
She looked higher than a kite to me. She had a Stepford smile and seemed like a robot stuck in the spin cycle of lather, rinse and repeat, saying the same thing again and again, apropos to nothing. It was freaky weird.
I laughed my a$$ off while shaking my head at the same time. THIS is what we have for representation AND she keeps getting reelected.
I don’t get it.
| 119 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:34:29pm |
re: #95 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Asking if you could successfully dupe a Tea Partier is like asking if the God-Emperor sits much.
You do realize that Agent Herbert wrote those books as an intelligence test for your species. He even laid out how we are breeding some of you!
| 120 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:36:07pm |
re: #119 LudwigVanQuixote
You do realize that Agent Herbert wrote those books as an intelligence test for your species. He even laid out how we are breeding some of you!
I aint talking about that filthy, Xenos tainted bastard Worm Boy.
| 121 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:36:13pm |
What Now? An Epic Election Meets the Future
…..expect an energized Republican majority to vigorously attempt to limit the size of the increase, which is based on Treasury projections. Failing to increase the debt limit would not necessarily lead the nation to default on its obligations, as the Treasury can take drastic (but legal) action to avoid increasing the debt in the near term. But it can’t stop-gap without harming confidence in the economy itself.
Read the whole thing. Worth the effort.
| 122 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:37:00pm |
re: #119 LudwigVanQuixote
You do realize that Agent Herbert wrote those books as an intelligence test for your species. He even laid out how we are breeding some of you!
Yes, but California voted down the proposition to legalize the Spice trade…
| 123 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:37:59pm |
re: #122 ralphieboy
Yes, but California voted down the proposition to legalize the Spice trade…
Did I mention that your species was so primitive that you still think the internet is for porn?
| 124 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:38:57pm |
Just talked to my Yellow Dog Democrat Aunt in Las Vegas.
Said a union guy was knocking on their door at 5 p.m. yesterday to check to see if they voted.
Harry Reid had some great support. GOTV in action. It’s what counts.
| 125 |
JeffFX Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:39:43pm |
re: #112 wozzablog
Everybody does… but no-one seems to remember.
From now on I’m going to think of Michelle Bachmann popping Xanax and Vicoden to make her Keeper go to sleep, so she can have a little peace. This struggle explains any bizarre behavior, and she has a lot to explain.
[Link: babylon5.wikia.com…]
| 126 |
darthstar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:40:26pm |
re: #121 Killgore Trout
What Now? An Epic Election Meets the Future
Read the whole thing. Worth the effort.
Watch for Republicans to hold the debt limit hostage in return for tax cuts for the rich.
| 127 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:40:33pm |
re: #125 JeffFX
From now on I’m going to think of Michelle Bachmann popping Xanax and Vicoden to make her Keeper go to sleep, so she can have a little peace. This struggle explains any bizarre behavior, and she has a lot to explain.
[Link: babylon5.wikia.com…]
Involved and accurate upding……..
| 128 |
Joanne Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:40:41pm |
| 129 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:40:46pm |
re: #125 JeffFX
From now on I’m going to think of Michelle Bachmann popping Xanax and Vicoden to make her Keeper go to sleep, so she can have a little peace. This struggle explains any bizarre behavior, and she has a lot to explain.
[Link: babylon5.wikia.com…]
Big upding for the B5 reference.
| 130 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:41:23pm |
re: #123 LudwigVanQuixote
Did I mention that your species was so primitive that you still think the internet is for porn?
What do think we used print and analog film media for back when there was no Internet?
| 131 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:42:16pm |
I did, thanks
Will the Republicans have to incorporate someone with Tea Party credentials into the leadership, especially if Rep. Mike Pence leaves the ranks to run for President? (Rep. Kevin McCarthy is a logical candidate for a promotion.)
we will soon find out who or what emerges from the TP agenda…me thinks their ranks are thinner than than what Fox promotes
| 133 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:43:29pm |
re: #124 Stanley Sea
Just talked to my Yellow Dog Democrat Aunt in Las Vegas.
Said a union guy was knocking on their door at 5 p.m. yesterday to check to see if they voted.
Harry Reid had some great support. GOTV in action. It’s what counts.
so does C Rangle, high grade dirtbag
| 134 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:43:56pm |
re: #126 darthstar
Watch for Republicans to hold the debt limit hostage in return for tax cuts for the rich.
Well, the two issues are already linked. Those tax cuts for the rich raise the deficit because of lost revenue.
| 135 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:45:46pm |
We’ll see how much cutting the people will put up with. I hope the Tea Party DEMANDS cuts. Until the GOP actually cuts spending, they are just hypocrites.
| 136 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:46:27pm |
re: #129 LudwigVanQuixote
Big upding for the B5 reference.
Oh, B five… I was wondering why you were calling BS. I gotta clean my glasses more often.
| 137 |
Joanne Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:46:33pm |
re: #96 MurphysMom
Michelle Bachman’s eyes have always seemed a little strange to me.
She has that Runaway Bride look to her. (She also looks like my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, cute on a dog, but….)
| 138 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:46:33pm |
re: #134 Killgore Trout
Well, the two issues are already linked. Those tax cuts for the rich raise the deficit because of lost revenue.
The tax cuts must be retained - along with a written promise from the recipients that they will invest at least 50% of the money they save in domestic job creation.
/
| 139 |
MurphysMom Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:46:43pm |
re: #107 Charles
I watched the Youtube version, which is a little longer, and Matthews goes on for about a half-minute describing the leg-thrill incident. Seemed a bit defensive about it to me - ended with a pouty statement something along the lines of “and now they’re making fun of me for it”. But … maybe defensiveness is in the eye of the beholder.
As to the hypnotized part, do you suppose he REALLY thought she’d been hypnotized? Or was it a rhetorical and snarky question? I can’t imagine a serious journalist dismissing the idea that she wanted to say what SHE wanted to say, no matter what he asked … and instead going with the notion that The Amazing Kreskin got a hold of her.
| 140 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:47:12pm |
re: #134 Killgore Trout
Well, the two issues are already linked. Those tax cuts for the rich raise the deficit because of lost revenue.
too bad….jobs and growth would more than make up for it…we need a Dept of Waste Management, a czar to find and delete waste
| 141 |
Sol Berdinowitz Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:47:40pm |
re: #137 JustJay
She has that Runaway Bride look to her. (She also looks like my Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, cute on a dog, but…)
Those eyes remind me more of a Weinaraner Image: weimaraner.jpg
| 142 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:47:56pm |
Small government for thee but not for me! I love the way politicians like Bachmann will take in 1000s of dollars in farm subsidies and who knows how many government business loans and/or programs yet talk the big talk of small government.
Adding to this is that when you come down to it Bachmann has been a “government employee” since she entered the Minnesota Senate in 2001. Much like another crypto-free marketeer, Ron Paul, who’s been employed by Uncle Sam since he joined the Air Force in the 1960s. Bullshit artists all of them.
| 144 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:48:58pm |
re: #117 LudwigVanQuixote
You can’t beat the forces of Remulak. I tell you humans this because it will plant the horrible truth in your minds as a possibility.
The horrible truth is, like I said, that we are going to let you fuck up your planet to the brink of extinction - so badly that even your Republicans will not be able to miss it was all your fault.
Then when we take over, you will love us. We will clean up your messes, re-educate the more useful ones like you and put the GOP true believers into zoos for the amusement of children. And you will love us for it!
We could easily, barrage your cities from orbit and crush your military. We want you scared of that possibility. Why do you think we have been making movies for the last 60 years where aliens come and beat the snot out of your planet? That way, when we come to save you, you will be doubly grateful.
I mean get real, we have the capacity for interstellar travel, and you guys are so primitive that you still think the internet is for porn. Well it is… but you can also use it to get the collected knowledge of civilizations instantly, something you lot have missed.
But I digress. If we crushed your military and vaporized your cities from orbit, it would take generations of re-education to get you to stop hating us. It is much more efficient to let you nearly wipe yourselves out and then have you love us. And boy are you monkey boys good at that. You actually think Palin is smart!
Can you lot read thermometers? Civilizations vastly more primitive than yours can do that. It isn’t hard! There are all of your thermometers, and you are stupid enough to think they aren’t going up! Less than one out of a thousand planets is a garden planet like yours, and you treat it like it is nothing - before you even have the capacity to leave it! Even your pets know not to shit where they sleep! Then you get back to using the internet for porn - and many of you pleasure yourselves while thinking of Palin!
You do realize that we constructed her from zoological waste and the genes of a hairless howler monkey? No… probably not. Heh, when we take over your planet, and turn it into a resort, and you are serving us umbrella drinks on the beaches of Pennsylvania, many of you will still think she’s hot! When we take your most beautiful and intelligent females (the real reason we are here) for ourselves, and whisk them off to a live of luxury, enlightenment and hyper-dimensional sexual gratification, you will still think the internet is for porn!
But you will be alive and you will love us for it, because you know full well how you lot can’t be left to run your own planet.
Blog. Or publish.
In any language you want.
| 145 |
JeffFX Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:49:16pm |
re: #136 brookly red
Oh, B five… I was wondering why you were calling BS. I gotta clean my glasses more often.
There’s no upding for BS at LGF.
| 146 |
Vambo Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:49:26pm |
re: #140 albusteve
too bad…jobs and growth would more than make up for it...we need a Dept of Waste Management, a czar to find and delete waste
socialize WM?!?!?!
[Link: www.wm.com…]
| 148 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:50:27pm |
re: #142 Gus 802
Small government for thee but not for me! I love the way politicians like Bachmann will take in 1000s of dollars in farm subsidies and who knows how many government business loans and/or programs yet talk the big talk of small government.
Adding to this is that when you come down to it Bachmann has been a “government employee” since she entered the Minnesota Senate in 2001. Much like another crypto-free marketeer, Ron Paul, who’s been employed by Uncle Sam since he joined the Air Force in the 1960s. Bullshit artists all of them.
Here’s the Bachmann-Welfare™ information:
In the period from 1995 through 2006, the Bachmann family farm as a whole received $251,973 in federal subsidies, chiefly for dairy and corn price supports.
| 149 |
Jeff In Ohio Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:50:30pm |
Check out this longer version of this Mathews/Bachman exchange at about the 1:20 minute mark - some guy holds up a faux book cover of Michelle ala Sarah Palin with the title “Going Crazy”.
[Link: www.mediaite.com…]
[Link: blogs.citypages.com…]
| 150 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:50:57pm |
I wish Christine O’Donnell would just fade away.
Seriously.
| 151 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:51:00pm |
re: #140 albusteve
too bad…jobs and growth would more than make up for it…we need a Dept of Waste Management, a czar to find and delete waste
the public sector equivalent an “efficiency expert-consultant”?
| 152 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:51:22pm |
re: #148 Gus 802
Here’s the Bachmann-Welfare™ information:
In the period from 1995 through 2006, the Bachmann family farm as a whole received $251,973 in federal subsidies, chiefly for dairy and corn price supports.
ouch!
nice snag
| 153 |
Joanne Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:52:12pm |
re: #103 albusteve
Boehner will have to keep his house under control…
You think that’s possible? Bachmann already said she wouldn’t support Boehner as SOTH and that she wants a leadership position. She also said she is going to have a tea party caucus (where she is going to teach newcomers constitution classes).
I think Teh Stoopid has been released and there is no one in the GOP who can stop it.
| 154 |
Lidane Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:52:29pm |
re: #150 researchok
I’ve been saying that about Caribou Barbie for the last two years, but she’s still around. Dammit.
| 156 |
JeffFX Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:52:42pm |
re: #148 Gus 802
Here’s the Bachmann-Welfare™ information:
In the period from 1995 through 2006, the Bachmann family farm as a whole received $251,973 in federal subsidies, chiefly for dairy and corn price supports.
About 25K a year. Life’s easy when you leech off the state.
| 158 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:54:28pm |
So, here is the list of anti-nominees submitted by individual LGFers. I still don’t have all the results, so fill me in if you know.
Michele Bachmann (R - Mars) IN
Rand Paul, R, KY, Senate. IN
Ron Paul, R TX, US House IN
Kesha Rogers, D, TX US House? OUT
Carl Paldino, R, NY, Governor OUT
Sharon Angle, R, Nevada, Senate OUT
Christine O’Donnell, R, Delaware, Senate OUT
Joe Miller, R(TP), AK Senate Prob OUT
Ken Buck - R - Colorado, Senate OUT
Bill Brady - R - Illinois, Governor
Jason Plummer - R - Illinois, Lt. Governor
Rick Perry - R - Texas, Governor IN
Jan Brewer, R, AZ, Governor IN
Ron Johnson, R WI Senate
Seems like reason enough to drink, to celebrate or to forget.
| 159 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:55:08pm |
re: #156 JeffFX
About 25K a year. Life’s easy when you leech off the state.
Yep. And you know how “corn price supports” go. Usually it means you get payed to do nothing.
| 160 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:55:55pm |
Michelle Bachman Anointed Czar And Princess Nembutal Barbie Of Looking Like A Deer Caught In The Headlights While Repeating Moronic Slogans
job pays $50 mil a year in gov subsidies and other things she hates
| 161 |
Locker Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:57:22pm |
re: #27 Stanley Sea
This sweet morning. I laughed, typed a snide response, then just decided the argument wasn’t worth it.
rotflmao dude. (that’s how I always see his nic)
You don’t have to do that man, you should remain your normal, nice self. I’ll take care of the snide responses, it’s expected from me anyway. ;-)
| 162 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 2:58:45pm |
re: #159 Gus 802
Yep. And you know how “corn price supports” go. Usually it means you get payed to do nothing.
just curious, do they still subsidize corn? I thought that prices went up with the demand for ethanol… could be wrong, we don’t have many farms in NYC.
| 164 |
Sergeant Major Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:00:20pm |
re: #45 WindUpBird
How did you guess I liked Justin Beiber? Oh Baby baby….. It’s also nice to see you know so much about me as only only said: I’m glad I don’t watch MSNBC. As I can make this assessment about you… You must be a Charter member of the Chris Matthews FAN CLUB (feel the tingle down your leg).
BTW not a fan of Spears…..
| 165 |
Lidane Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:00:41pm |
| 166 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:00:43pm |
Tennessee Legislators Just Want To Hang Out With Their Blackface Pastors
Tennessee Republican Terri Lynn Weaver has SOMEHOW gotten into controversy by posting a photo of herself with her fat pastor dressed as a blackface Aunt Jemima, which you can see at left. What you can’t see at left is the comment Weaver wrote on this photo, “Aunt Jemima, you is so sweet.”
| 168 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:01:58pm |
re: #163 Gus 802
hmmm it would seem that as recently as 09 yes… OK there is something we can cut me thinks.
| 169 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:02:05pm |
re: #162 brookly red
just curious, do they still subsidize corn? I thought that prices went up with the demand for ethanol… could be wrong, we don’t have many farms in NYC.
Found this here: United States Corn Subsidies || EWG Farm Subsidy Database
Corn Subsidies** in the United States totaled $73.8 billion from 1995-2009.
Year Subsidy Amount
1995 $2,934,905,729
1996 $2,119,058,660
1997 $2,906,300,158
1998 $5,064,623,703
1999 $7,567,377,481
2000 $8,058,490,168
2001 $5,982,553,435
2002 $2,498,438,680
2003 $3,439,944,865
2004 $5,308,631,480
2005 $10,121,533,998
2006 $5,796,986,247
2007 $3,806,081,790
2008 $4,194,744,978
2009 ** $3,975,606,299
| 170 |
tigger2005 Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:02:12pm |
re: #60 darthstar
I’ve dressed as Cher and as Olive Oyl for costume contests at work (a lady coworker dressed as Sonny and as Popeye). When I did Cher, I wore bell bottoms that were tight around my thighs. I had a few women tell me they wished their legs looked as good as mine :)
| 171 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:02:30pm |
re: #168 brookly red
hmmm it would seem that as recently as 09 yes… OK there is something we can cut me thinks.
Kaching!
| 172 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:02:55pm |
re: #166 Killgore Trout
Tennessee Legislators Just Want To Hang Out With Their Blackface Pastors
Shoot me.
/
Another example from the Grand Canyon of Stupid.
Now you know why I support school vouchers.
| 173 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:03:12pm |
does bachmann actually do anything besides stand around acting like a mannequin? has she introduced legislation?
| 174 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:04:15pm |
re: #169 Gus 802
Found this here: United States Corn Subsidies || EWG Farm Subsidy Database
73 billion…
that could buy a whole shitload of drones.
| 175 |
Varek Raith Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:06:53pm |
| 176 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:07:17pm |
re: #158 Decatur Deb
So, here is the list of anti-nominees submitted by individual LGFers. I still don’t have all the results, so fill me in if you know.
Michele Bachmann (R - Mars) IN
Rand Paul, R, KY, Senate. IN
Ron Paul, R TX, US House IN
Kesha Rogers, D, TX US House? OUT
Carl Paldino, R, NY, Governor OUT
Sharon Angle, R, Nevada, Senate OUT
Christine O’Donnell, R, Delaware, Senate OUT
Joe Miller, R(TP), AK Senate Prob OUT
Ken Buck - R - Colorado, Senate OUT
Bill Brady - R - Illinois, Governor
Jason Plummer - R - Illinois, Lt. Governor
Rick Perry - R - Texas, Governor IN
Jan Brewer, R, AZ, Governor IN
Ron Johnson, R WI SenateSeems like reason enough to drink, to celebrate or to forget.
Funny how the way to deal with both victory and defeat is the same: time to have a drink.
| 177 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:07:20pm |
1 Texas $1,474,373,975 9.6% 9.6%
2 Iowa $1,161,474,362 7.5% 17.1%
3 Illinois $936,952,338 6.1% 23.2%
4 Kansas $883,018,738 5.7% 28.9%
5 Minnesota $877,636,121 5.7%
| 178 |
Lidane Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:07:40pm |
re: #173 engineer dog
does bachmann actually do anything besides stand around acting like a mannequin?
She rants like a crazy person and makes up shit.
has she introduced legislation?
Aside from a truly idiotic piece of legislation that bravely defended the dollar from being replaced by a currency that doesn’t exist, I don’t know.
| 179 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:07:56pm |
A classic bit where Olberman nails Limbaugh and Robertson to the wall.
I bring this because it is worth remembering the icons of the new congrescritters and how depraved and immoral they are.
So we’ve been bitching for two years about these loons. It is really time to man up and actually put this country back on the right track.
If not now, when? If not us who?
And that quote my friends is about 2,000 years older than the 80’s. Every generation faces its challenges. We should consider putting our war faces on for ours. The Dems are too weak and spineless to do it. We perhaps should galvanize them. If astroturfing can create hordes of idiot teabags then perhaps starting with each lizard, we can create a real coffee movement - or whatever you want to call it.
But such things start when we all say enough is enough.
| 180 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:07:59pm |
| 181 |
Varek Raith Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:08:35pm |
| 182 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:09:06pm |
Total Direct Payments in 6th district of Minnesota (Rep. Michele Bachmann), 1995-2009
Subsidy Recipients 1 to 20 of 3,792
Recipients of Total Direct Payments from farms in 6th district of Minnesota (Rep. Michele Bachmann) totaled $61,523,000 in from 1995-2009.
1 Imholte Farms ∗ Clear Lake, MN 55319 $428,294
2 Olson Family Partnership Msrk ∗ Becker, MN 55308 $403,522
3 T J Farms Ltd ∗ Saint Cloud, MN 56304 $280,498
4 John R Dearing Annandale, MN 55302 $278,864
5 Dahlman Farms Inc ∗ Cokato, MN 55321 $277,270
6 Mark Olean Annandale, MN 55302 $274,456
7 Brose Brothers Co ∗ Howard Lake, MN 55349 $264,580
8 Patrick Wayne Lee Cedar, MN 55011 $245,786
9 Janet F Lee Cedar, MN 55011 $242,268
10 Dumonceaux Farms Inc ∗ Foley, MN 56329 $241,642
11 Schlichting Farms Inc ∗ Rice, MN 56367 $237,319
12 Larry Hoffman Annandale, MN 55302 $232,365
13 Jeffrey A Meuleners Montrose, MN 55363 $231,171
14 Mary Ann M Meuleners Montrose, MN 55363 $231,137
15 Tom Gilyard Clear Lake, MN 55319 $230,538
16 Tnt Farms Inc ∗ Cokato, MN 55321 $228,652
17 Martin Moritz Elk River, MN 55330 $227,951
18 Kapseg Inc ∗ Maple Lake, MN 55358 $226,695
19 Barbara Olean Annandale, MN 55302 $221,722
20 Darrell Laplant Waverly, MN 55390 $220,230
| 183 |
Varek Raith Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:09:54pm |
re: #177 Gus 802
1 Texas $1,474,373,975 9.6% 9.6%
2 Iowa $1,161,474,362 7.5% 17.1%
3 Illinois $936,952,338 6.1% 23.2%
4 Kansas $883,018,738 5.7% 28.9%
5 Minnesota $877,636,121 5.7%
Gee, I see a pattern of some sort with those states…
I just can’t put my finger on it….
/
| 184 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:09:54pm |
re: #181 Varek Raith
Did you do the math on that???
no but I am a trained estimator… and I buy wholesale.
| 185 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:10:09pm |
re: #181 Varek Raith
Did you do the math on that???
Its a simple coversion between ounces and shitloads.
| 186 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:10:26pm |
re: #172 researchok
Shoot me.
/Another example from the Grand Canyon of Stupid.
Now you know why I support school vouchers.
Homeschooling and religious schools - those things that would profit the most from the GOP plan to completely gut free public education - I mean the voucher program are what would result. It would create more loons like that in states like that. Bad idea.
| 187 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:10:32pm |
re: #169 Gus 802
Found this here: United States Corn Subsidies || EWG Farm Subsidy Database
Looks like a good place to start those Small Government, Free Markets cuts.
| 188 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:11:17pm |
re: #178 Lidane
thx
check this out
Bachmann became an outspoken critic of public education and opponent of Minnesota’s Profile of Learning and School-to-Work policies. In a 1999 column, Bachmann said: “School-to-Work alters the basic mission and purpose of K-12 academic education away from traditional broad-based academic studies geared toward maximizing intellectual achievement of the individual. Instead, School-to-Work utilizes the school day to promote children’s acquisition of workplace skills, viewing children as trainees for increased economic productivity.”
(via wiksterpedia)
| 189 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:12:53pm |
re: #139 MurphysMom
I watched the Youtube version, which is a little longer, and Matthews goes on for about a half-minute describing the leg-thrill incident. Seemed a bit defensive about it to me - ended with a pouty statement something along the lines of “and now they’re making fun of me for it”. But … maybe defensiveness is in the eye of the beholder.
As to the hypnotized part, do you suppose he REALLY thought she’d been hypnotized? Or was it a rhetorical and snarky question? I can’t imagine a serious journalist dismissing the idea that she wanted to say what SHE wanted to say, no matter what he asked … and instead going with the notion that The Amazing Kreskin got a hold of her.
Here’s the whole thing — I don’t see any defensiveness in what Matthews says about the ‘tingle’ business. And what he points out about Bachmann’s calls for investigations of ‘un-American’ activity is vastly more important. Sure, he’s poking fun at Bachmann, but she doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously.
I wish more journalists would ask the kind of off-the-wall questions Matthews does. That’s when things get interesting.
| 190 |
Kronocide Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:13:06pm |
I’m dying to know if Murkowski won. What’s the consensus on how long it will take to get the write ins counted?
| 191 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:13:11pm |
re: #187 Decatur Deb
Looks like a good place to start those Small Government, Free Markets cuts.
I think so. Good question to pose to Bachmann. Good luck getting an answer.
| 192 |
Lidane Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:13:19pm |
OT, but how reliable are both Myers-Briggs and Kolb Learning Style Inventory tests? I had to take both for my HR class and I’m sitting here going over the results. They sound like fair assessments, but I’m not sure how seriously to take them.
| 193 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:13:46pm |
re: #183 Varek Raith
Gee, I see a pattern of some sort with those states…
I just can’t put my finger on it…
/
The biggest bashers of “earmarks”
hbd!
| 194 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:14:00pm |
Forgot the video - here it is:
| 195 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:14:17pm |
re: #190 BigPapa
I’m dying to know if Murkowski won. What’s the consensus on how long it will take to get the write ins counted?
It’s probably going be a matter of weeks.
| 196 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:15:16pm |
idiot cleanup on aisle 7: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
| 197 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:15:34pm |
re: #195 Charles
It’s probably going be a matter of weeks.
Someone quoted 18 Nov as a drop-dead date.
| 198 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:15:53pm |
re: #179 LudwigVanQuixote
So we’ve been bitching for two years about these loons. It is really time to man up and actually put this country back on the right track.
If not now, when? If not us who?
And that quote my friends is about 2,000 years older than the 80’s. Every generation faces its challenges. We should consider putting our war faces on for ours. The Dems are too weak and spineless to do it. We perhaps should galvanize them. If astroturfing can create hordes of idiot teabags then perhaps starting with each lizard, we can create a real coffee movement - or whatever you want to call it.
But such things start when we all say enough is enough.
thats one way to get on a watchlist ;)
| 199 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:16:34pm |
re: #190 BigPapa
I’m dying to know if Murkowski won. What’s the consensus on how long it will take to get the write ins counted?
Apparently the court ruled to speed up the process. Until today it was Nov. 17th.
Extremely informative Q & A with The Mudflats on WaPo. Many questions about the AK Senatorial election answered. (read it folks!)
[Link: live.washingtonpost.com…]
| 200 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:17:17pm |
re: #198 brookly red
So we’ve been bitching for two years about these loons. It is really time to man up and actually put this country back on the right track.
If not now, when? If not us who?
And that quote my friends is about 2,000 years older than the 80’s. Every generation faces its challenges. We should consider putting our war faces on for ours. The Dems are too weak and spineless to do it. We perhaps should galvanize them. If astroturfing can create hordes of idiot teabags then perhaps starting with each lizard, we can create a real coffee movement - or whatever you want to call it.
But such things start when we all say enough is enough.
thats one way to get on a watchlist ;)
It would be horrible to get through life, and never be on a list.
| 201 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:17:18pm |
re: #196 WindUpBird
idiot cleanup on aisle 7: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
harmless enough…are you offended?
| 202 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:17:39pm |
re: #186 LudwigVanQuixote
Homeschooling and religious schools - those things that would profit the most from the GOP plan to completely gut free public education - I mean the voucher program are what would result. It would create more loons like that in states like that. Bad idea.
Not so fast.
In cities like DC, poor and minority families are lining up for vouchers (Catholic schools, mostly). The competition is so intense in many places they have instituted a lottery system.
Money has been poured into urban public schools systems for decades- and we both know the result (not enough lipstick, LVQ).
We both know where the problem lies- but that is a third rail issue. I’d be for throwing yet more money at public schools- but the way things are now, that is a bottomless money pit.
Until that unspoken ‘third rail’ is dealt with (and their leadership booted for good) I’ll back vouchers. I’m not happy but I’m a pragmatist.
| 203 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:19:59pm |
re: #202 researchok
Not so fast.
In cities like DC, poor and minority families are lining up for vouchers (Catholic schools, mostly). The competition is so intense in many places they have instituted a lottery system.
Money has been poured into urban public schools systems for decades- and we both know the result (not enough lipstick, LVQ).
We both know where the problem lies- but that is a third rail issue. I’d be for throwing yet more money at public schools- but the way things are now, that is a bottomless money pit.
Until that unspoken ‘third rail’ is dealt with (and their leadership booted for good) I’ll back vouchers. I’m not happy but I’m a pragmatist.
public education will not improve til the back of the NEA is broken
| 204 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:20:21pm |
re: #201 albusteve
harmless enough…are you offended?
He’s spamming dead threads. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
I thought that was something that was considered to be not cool on LGF
| 205 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:20:40pm |
re: #202 researchok
We both know where the problem lies- but that is a third rail issue.
A vastly inflated number of administrators compared to teachers? Because that number has been rising and rising and rising over the past decades. The ratio is insane now.
That’s what you mean, right?
| 206 |
webevintage Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:21:32pm |
File under “why am I not surprised”….
Asked If Untaxed Corporations Like Exxon Are Taxed Too Much, Tea Party Leaders Say Yes
[Link: thinkprogress.org…]
ThinkProgress attended the presser and asked the Tea Party leaders about some of their top priorities, namely taxes and repealing President Obama’s reforms. Presented with the fact that some of the most profitable American corporations in the world, like ExxonMobil and Bank of America, paid essentially zero corporate income taxes in 2009, we asked Meckler if he believed corporations are indeed “taxed enough already?” Meckler responded that he still believed in a tax-cutting agenda, and suggested that corporations even deserve a tax holiday. Similarly, we asked Martin about Rep. Eric Cantor’s (R-VA) pledge last night to defund the historic financial regulatory reform passed by President Obama to shore up Wall Street. She said she had “no idea” what to think about that, and said her 280,000 strong membership had never substantially commented to her about Obama’s Wall Street reforms
| 207 |
jaunte Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:21:48pm |
re: #177 Gus 802
1 Texas $1,474,373,975 9.6% 9.6%
2 Iowa $1,161,474,362 7.5% 17.1%
3 Illinois $936,952,338 6.1% 23.2%
4 Kansas $883,018,738 5.7% 28.9%
5 Minnesota $877,636,121 5.7%
You can see from that how sincere Rick Perry is when he talks about seceding.
| 208 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:22:00pm |
re: #203 albusteve
public education will not improve til the back of the NEA is broken
I’ll ask my daughter how that’s going, the one they tried to discipline for teaching “To Kill a Mockingbird”.
| 209 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:22:50pm |
re: #204 WindUpBird
He’s spamming dead threads. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
I thought that was something that was considered to be not cool on LGF
let em bitch
| 210 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:23:07pm |
re: #208 Decatur Deb
I’ll ask my daughter how that’s going, the one they tried to discipline for teaching “To Kill a Mockingbird”.
Wait, what?
| 211 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:23:32pm |
re: #207 jaunte
You can see from that how sincere Rick Perry is when he talks about seceding.
And of course most of that goes to corporate farms. Gone are the days of the small farmer.
| 212 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:23:48pm |
re: #202 researchok
In cities like DC, poor and minority families are lining up for vouchers (Catholic schools, mostly). The competition is so intense in many places they have instituted a lottery system.
Yeah I wonder why the church and parochial schools are so for this program. The GOP does not get to gut public education - and then say that since it is ruined (by them!) that it should be gutted further.
Given the way that congress treats DC as an after-thought by both parties (and remember that I am in the DC area!) to bring that up is simply stacking the book. If there was ever proof that congress critters can’t be left to govern anything on their own, it would be DC.
The bottom line is that the only way to stem the tide of ignorance is to have good, accessible, well funded public schools, with actual education standards, where science is taught and the separation of church and state prevails. Vouchers are a perfect bank shot on attacking both those things from the GOP point of view.
Now I don’t mean to crap on Catholic schools per se - some are quite good - but in no way should the federal government be subsidizing the church and putting people in a position where that is the only option left. This is also much larger than the Church. I don’t even want to go into all the Christian academies - and to my chagrin Yeshivot who are lined up for that money.
| 213 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:24:01pm |
re: #208 Decatur Deb
I’ll ask my daughter how that’s going, the one they tried to discipline for teaching “To Kill a Mockingbird”.
gahhhhhh what state was that?
| 214 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:24:33pm |
re: #207 jaunte
You can see from that how sincere Rick Perry is when he talks about seceding.
Interesting stuff!
| 215 |
Nervous Norvous Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:24:34pm |
evening all… Wish I still drank. Would help for the next two years.
| 216 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:25:17pm |
re: #215 PT Barnum
Don’t you worry, I can do enough drinking for the both of us.
| 217 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:25:40pm |
re: #211 Gus 802
And of course most of that goes to corporate farms. Gone are the days of the small farmer.
well if there is any silver lining to the economy, it is causing more people to grow their own food.
| 218 |
Nervous Norvous Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:25:50pm |
re: #216 Slumbering Behemoth
Don’t you worry, I can do enough drinking for the both of us.
Get started. I am partial to Guinness and Newcastle
| 219 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:25:54pm |
re: #210 Slumbering Behemoth
Wait, what?
Rural Alabama, within 50 miles of Atticus’ house. She was accused by a black aide who found it offensive. (She teaches from an autographed copy.)
| 220 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:26:01pm |
re: #205 Obdicut
A vastly inflated number of administrators compared to teachers? Because that number has been rising and rising and rising over the past decades. The ratio is insane now.
That’s what you mean, right?
No, although that is a real and different issue.
I’m referring to the refusal to take competency exams and the difficulty in removing bad teachers.
The bottom line is clear- if we were producing good students, parents would not be interested in vouchers ore having their kids attend private schools.
| 221 |
avanti Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:26:03pm |
re: #52 WindUpBird
I love these waxy hershey’s chocolate bars, they’re awesome because so many other people eat them, that makes them way more delicious than any of that liberal hippie chocolate with all that “cacao” I mean, what does that word even mean
You just reminded me of my favorite eats while in Vegas, a In-Out burger and fries, both animal style. You guys out west are so lucky.
| 222 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:26:14pm |
re: #208 Decatur Deb
I’ll ask my daughter how that’s going, the one they tried to discipline for teaching “To Kill a Mockingbird”.
what a shame, a brilliant book….I had few beefs with my school system back in the day, but still it was a culture of elitists….parents need to pay more attention to their school boards
| 223 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:26:45pm |
re: #215 PT Barnum
evening all… Wish I still drank. Would help for the next two years.
Well, you could always sniff glue instead.
| 224 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:26:56pm |
re: #217 brookly red
well if there is any silver lining to the economy, it is causing more people to grow their own food.
True. I would if I could.
| 225 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:27:05pm |
re: #215 PT Barnum
evening all… Wish I still drank. Would help for the next two years.
man up…BO will likely be gone after that….one and done
| 226 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:27:20pm |
re: #215 PT Barnum
evening all… Wish I still drank. Would help for the next two years.
I assumed this would happen, because historically it happens a great deal, one party wins the presidency, other party gains in midterms.
Now, if they had taken the Senate, I’d be a lot more worried ;-)
| 227 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:28:28pm |
re: #204 WindUpBird
He’s spamming dead threads. [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
I thought that was something that was considered to be not cool on LGF
It isn’t cool. Its one of the stalker trolls with a left over sock from 2007. It astonishes me how many socks they have! The sort of mind that thinks - just in case, I need ten of me, to post here is beyond me.
Stevo is being his normal irascible and uncool self.
| 228 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:28:45pm |
re: #219 Decatur Deb
Rural Alabama, within 50 miles of Atticus’ house. She was accused by a black aide who found it offensive. (She teaches from an autographed copy.)
I’m trying to figure that out, and I’m coming up with nothing. I haven’t read that book in :mumblemumble: years. What did the aide find so offensive?
| 229 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:30:02pm |
re: #221 avanti
You just reminded me of my favorite eats while in Vegas, a In-Out burger and fries, both animal style. You guys out west are so lucky.
There’s a crazy burger arms race in California, I guess the new thing are Five Guys burgers, might have to do a taste test when I’m in the bay this January
| 230 |
Nervous Norvous Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:30:18pm |
re: #223 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Well, you could always sniff glue instead.
Um..isn’t that where they got the new crop of Congresscritters? No Thanks.
| 231 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:30:28pm |
re: #227 LudwigVanQuixote
It isn’t cool. Its one of the stalker trolls with a left over sock from 2007. It astonishes me how many socks they have! The sort of mind that thinks - just in case, I need ten of me, to post here is beyond me.
Stevo is being his normal irascible and uncool self.
I didn’t read the post as spamming….would I be cool if I saw something that wasn’t there, like you?
| 232 |
Lidane Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:30:50pm |
re: #225 albusteve
Yep. Just like Clinton was a one and done President. Or Dubya. Or Reagan.
Trying to predict anything two years before the next Presidential election is asinine. It’s wishful thinking at best.
| 233 |
Nervous Norvous Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:31:37pm |
re: #229 WindUpBird
There’s a crazy burger arms race in California, I guess the new thing are Five Guys burgers, might have to do a taste test when I’m in the bay this January
Best burgers are never made by chains.
I had an amazing burger a couple of weeks ago at a little hole in the wall bar by where I work. I really wish I could have had a cold beer with it, but oh well.
| 234 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:31:50pm |
re: #220 researchok
Competency exams are extremely difficult to fairly administrate. I have no problem with simply subject-based ones, but they can get extremely difficult, extremely quickly if you go beyond the simplest test. And the ability to pass a test does not in any way judge the competence of someone to teach that subject.
It is difficult to remove bad teachers. It is also difficult to remove good teachers. That aspect never seems to get mentioned.
The bottom line is clear- if we were producing good students, parents would not be interested in vouchers ore having their kids attend private schools.
We produce a lot of very good students, in many excellent public school districts. There are many districts with huge, systemic problems. Given that, it should be rather obvious that public education in and of itself is not the problem.
The main issue with private schools is that they can be selective in who attends them. When you are measuring the relative success of private schools to public schools, you are measuring the success of institutions that can select membership against ones that can’t.
There are public schools that can select for population; magnet schools and the like. Unsurprisingly, these schools are far more effective than standard private schools. For example:
[Link: www.capitalprep.org…]
| 235 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:31:56pm |
re: #229 WindUpBird
There’s a crazy burger arms race in California, I guess the new thing are Five Guys burgers, might have to do a taste test when I’m in the bay this January
Five Guys have come to ABQ and they are the rage!….have not tried them yet
| 236 |
Nervous Norvous Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:32:01pm |
re: #232 Lidane
Yep. Just like Clinton was a one and done President. Or Dubya. Or Reagan.
Trying to predict anything two years before the next Presidential election is asinine. It’s wishful thinking at best.
In Steve’s case it’s ODS writ large
| 237 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:32:14pm |
re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth
I’m trying to figure that out, and I’m coming up with nothing. I haven’t read that book in :mumblemumble: years. What did the aide find so offensive?
Aide was making a case to cover her tracks, found the language and descriptions offensive. Ironic that the trouble came from the PC Left angle. The AEA would have helped out if the school (a youth prison) had wanted a chance to press.
| 238 |
garhighway Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:32:17pm |
re: #15 Sergeant Major
I’m glad I don’t watch MSNBC…
I’m glad that you have the motor and cognitive skills to work the remote for yourself.
| 239 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:32:36pm |
re: #231 albusteve
There is more than one post and if you can’t tell the signs of a troll by its droppings, I can’t educate you. Though, since you are now, and have been one of the largest regular trolls here, perhaps it is a misguided courtesy on your part to be so blind.
I feel sorry for your medical problems. It doesn’t give you leave though to continue to be such a jackass.
| 240 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:33:35pm |
re: #232 Lidane
Yep. Just like Clinton was a one and done President. Or Dubya. Or Reagan.
Trying to predict anything two years before the next Presidential election is asinine. It’s wishful thinking at best.
I predict it will be ugly… wanna say that is asinine? ;)
| 241 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:33:40pm |
re: #233 PT Barnum
Best burgers are never made by chains.
I had an amazing burger a couple of weeks ago at a little hole in the wall bar by where I work. I really wish I could have had a cold beer with it, but oh well.
Oh I know, i usually only eat burgers from the Deschutes pub in downtown Portland, because man, my system could not handle burgers more frequently than that :D
| 242 |
Varek Raith Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:34:02pm |
I congratulate the GOP on it’s victory.
May the crazies be controlled.
Lol, who am I kidding.
:)
| 243 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:34:13pm |
re: #237 Decatur Deb
We read that in my english class, freshman year of HS. Then watched the film. Classics, both. It’s sad that someone would use that great work in such a way.
| 244 |
jaunte Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:34:18pm |
re: #228 Slumbering Behemoth
To Kill A Mockingbird is apparently in 4th place on the ban list.
[Link: fresnobeehive.com…]
| 245 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:34:28pm |
re: #235 albusteve
Five Guys have come to ABQ and they are the rage!…have not tried them yet
Five Guys is pretty damn good. Don’t expect anything but burgers and fries. because that is *all* they serve. They don’t have chicken, or shakes. Oh, they have peanuts to munch on and soft drinks.
Burgers… mmm good burgers too… They remind me of cooking on the grill burgers… so if you like that kind of burger… 5 Guys is amazinggggg (yes, it deserves that many g’s)
| 246 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:34:43pm |
re: #232 Lidane
Yep. Just like Clinton was a one and done President. Or Dubya. Or Reagan.
Trying to predict anything two years before the next Presidential election is asinine. It’s wishful thinking at best.
where have you been?….the predictions right here the last few days have gone right over the top with regard to GOP victories…I’m not trying to be asinine, just having fun, remember that stuff?
| 247 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:34:50pm |
re: #212 LudwigVanQuixote
Yeah I wonder why the church and parochial schools are so for this program. The GOP does not get to gut public education - and then say that since it is ruined (by them!) that it should be gutted further.
Given the way that congress treats DC as an after-thought by both parties (and remember that I am in the DC area!) to bring that up is simply stacking the book. If there was ever proof that congress critters can’t be left to govern anything on their own, it would be DC.
The bottom line is that the only way to stem the tide of ignorance is to have good, accessible, well funded public schools, with actual education standards, where science is taught and the separation of church and state prevails. Vouchers are a perfect bank shot on attacking both those things from the GOP point of view.
Now I don’t mean to crap on Catholic schools per se - some are quite good - but in no way should the federal government be subsidizing the church and putting people in a position where that is the only option left. This is also much larger than the Church. I don’t even want to go into all the Christian academies - and to my chagrin Yeshivot who are lined up for that money.
It’s the parents who are demanding these programs.
There was a story here in NC about a minority parent who couldn’t get their kid into a private school. It was heartbreaking to watch. She’s a single mom, works two jobs and wanted her kids to have a chance. The dejection was palpable.
A few years ago I was in Savannah with some mucky muck. We were in the car on a Sunday afternoon, driving through what was clearly a poor neighborhood. I saw a kid playing in the well kept front yard, dressed in a neat shirt and pressed trousers. Obviously, he had been to church. It was clear he was well cared for. His mother was chatting with her neighbor all the while keeping an eye on that boy. I remarked to my friend how pleasant that scene was and this kid would grow into a fine young man and joked we may be looking at a future president.
My friend bitterly remarked, ‘That kid doesn’t have a shot in hell. His school will abandon him long before he quits’.
Sometimes anecdotes tell the bigger story.
| 248 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:35:34pm |
re: #244 jaunte
To Kill A Mockingbird is apparently in 4th place on the ban list.
[Link: fresnobeehive.com…]
“page not found” :(
| 249 |
Nervous Norvous Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:35:44pm |
Interesting article in Esquire
The people we are about to hand over the reins to
There’s something admirable about them. They come to the meetings when nobody else does. They listen. They take notes. They are involved in the civic life of their communities. They are also monomaniacal. Every point they make is conclusive. Every argument they make is definitive. No event is singular. One thing — always, inevitably — leads to another. They are not conspiracy theorists, per se – although some of them are – but simply people who have lost faith in coincidence. Every act is a deliberate act connected to another deliberate act, connected to another one, back through the decades. Sometimes, they’re even right, which is always a good thing. More often, they make the meetings longer and more pointless, and everybody starts sweating and cursing under their breath, and then not under their breath, because the old steam-heat radiators are crackling and whistling and parboiling democracy and nothing’s getting done. They sail blithely on, smiling their secret smiles, and they will be back next week. And the week after that.
And, by this time tomorrow, they are the people who are probably going to be ruling these United States of America.
Read more: [Link: www.esquire.com…]
| 250 |
jaunte Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:36:17pm |
re: #248 Slumbering Behemoth
Try that link again:
[Link: fresnobeehive.com…]
| 251 |
webevintage Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:37:14pm |
re: #237 Decatur Deb
Aide was making a case to cover her tracks, found the language and descriptions offensive. Ironic that the trouble came from the PC Left angle. The AEA would have helped out if the school (a youth prison) had wanted a chance to press.
And that is why Teachers need a union….
| 252 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:37:22pm |
re: #240 brookly red
I predict it will be ugly… wanna say that is asinine? ;)
my best prediction at this point is that mooselini will savage smiley mcmormonpants in the primaries and fatally weaken him, but that the old line gop will pull strings and get him nominated anyway because they know mooselini would be a 40 state loss
that’ll be ugly
| 253 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:37:49pm |
re: #239 LudwigVanQuixote
There is more than one post and if you can’t tell the signs of a troll by its droppings, I can’t educate you. Though, since you are now, and have been one of the largest regular trolls here, perhaps it is a misguided courtesy on your part to be so blind.
I feel sorry for your medical problems. It doesn’t give you leave though to continue to be such a jackass.
I don’t consider right wing posts or memes trolling….it bothers me not and I enjoy the difference of opinion…do you need to be so juvenile?
| 254 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:38:06pm |
re: #250 jaunte
Try that link again:
[Link: fresnobeehive.com…]
Thanks. I love librarians, and would never want to cross one.
| 255 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:38:13pm |
re: #250 jaunte
That one works.
The reason people want this book banned: racism, offensive language, unsuited to age group.
Ugh. Some people are so fucking stupid.
| 256 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:38:31pm |
re: #234 Obdicut
Competency exams insure that teachers will teach to a bubble test rather than actually teach.
It is impossible to create a real exam in bubble format. The best that can be created is a sort of test of trivia they thought was important. I suppose it can have a limited application in terms of basic history but they are useless for, mathematics, science or literature. In fact, they essentially insure that no actual learning - as in learning actual applicable knowledge gets done.
Even with history, it is impossible. You can not ask a good history question that demonstrates some notion of cause and effect, without essays.
Knowing that Gettysburg happened in July is trivia. Knowing things that caused the Civil war is knowledge.
Being able to rule out wrong math or science answers and guess the right one out of the two left based on units of algebra tricks is a certain skill - but it is not the same thing as understanding science.
The more I look at GOP ideas about education, the more I am shocked, in that the comprehensive way they wish to destroy it could not be better evolved.
| 257 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:38:58pm |
| 258 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:39:16pm |
re: #255 Slumbering Behemoth
That one works.
Ugh. Some people are so fucking stupid.
TKaMB is often attacked on RW revisionist blogs.
| 259 |
jaunte Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:39:17pm |
re: #255 Slumbering Behemoth
Scanning only the offending words, and not reading for the meaning of the story, they miss a lot.
| 260 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:39:30pm |
re: #234 Obdicut
Competency exams are extremely difficult to fairly administrate. I have no problem with simply subject-based ones, but they can get extremely difficult, extremely quickly if you go beyond the simplest test. And the ability to pass a test does not in any way judge the competence of someone to teach that subject.
It is difficult to remove bad teachers. It is also difficult to remove good teachers. That aspect never seems to get mentioned.
We produce a lot of very good students, in many excellent public school districts. There are many districts with huge, systemic problems. Given that, it should be rather obvious that public education in and of itself is not the problem.
The main issue with private schools is that they can be selective in who attends them. When you are measuring the relative success of private schools to public schools, you are measuring the success of institutions that can select membership against ones that can’t.
There are public schools that can select for population; magnet schools and the like. Unsurprisingly, these schools are far more effective than standard private schools. For example:
[Link: www.capitalprep.org…]
Obdi, we can go round and round on this issue. That may even serve a purpose.
Nevertheless, when poor and minority parents beg and plead for a space in a private school, the details somehow lose importance. Maybe being in the South (NC) amplifies the situation.
All I know is what I see and hear.
For you, there might be a political element- and there probably is, to be sure.
For me, I just see the heartbreak. And now, there is talk of what amounts to to re-segregation here in Wake County.
| 261 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:39:32pm |
re: #247 researchok
If there were proper schools in her district, she wouldn’t have to send her kid to a private school.
| 262 |
Nervous Norvous Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:39:43pm |
re: #257 albusteve
everybody has their pet DS…even you!
Yes…mine is SMMDS…Simple Minded Memes Derangement Syndrome
| 263 |
webevintage Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:39:56pm |
| 264 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:40:04pm |
re: #207 jaunte
You can see from that how sincere Rick Perry is when he talks about seceding.
Texas also gets oil subsidy money. That usually comes in the form of tax subsidies. This is rationalized by Susan Combs, Texas Comptroller in the Energy Report - Government Financial Subsidies. She perhaps provides a reasonable case. However, I sincerely doubt that it’s anything remotely approaching “what are founding fathers” designed nor within a strict Constitutional reading. It is in the end a form of collectivism on that even these faux Adam Smiths in Texas have their hand in.
| 265 |
Nervous Norvous Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:40:30pm |
| 266 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:41:02pm |
re: #258 Decatur Deb
TKaMB is often attacked on RW revisionist blogs.
Now that would make sense. But from the overly race sensitive on the left? Do they even know what the story is about?
| 267 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:41:04pm |
re: #247 researchok
It’s the parents who are demanding these programs.
There was a story here in NC about a minority parent who couldn’t get their kid into a private school. It was heartbreaking to watch. She’s a single mom, works two jobs and wanted her kids to have a chance. The dejection was palpable.
A few years ago I was in Savannah with some mucky muck. We were in the car on a Sunday afternoon, driving through what was clearly a poor neighborhood. I saw a kid playing in the well kept front yard, dressed in a neat shirt and pressed trousers. Obviously, he had been to church. It was clear he was well cared for. His mother was chatting with her neighbor all the while keeping an eye on that boy. I remarked to my friend how pleasant that scene was and this kid would grow into a fine young man and joked we may be looking at a future president.
My friend bitterly remarked, ‘That kid doesn’t have a shot in hell. His school will abandon him long before he quits’.
Sometimes anecdotes tell the bigger story.
I went to public school as my sister did… between us we have 5 degrees. I have a lot of issues with our public education system but in all fairness like anything else in life you get out what you put in.
| 268 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:41:40pm |
re: #262 PT Barnum
Yes…mine is SMMDS…Simple Minded Memes Derangement Syndrome
there you go…and further, the designated hitter rule ruined baseball and I’m still pissed
| 269 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:41:49pm |
re: #264 Gus 802
Texas also gets oil subsidy money. That usually comes in the form of tax subsidies. This is rationalized by Susan Combs, Texas Comptroller in the Energy Report - Government Financial Subsidies. She perhaps provides a reasonable case. However, I sincerely doubt that it’s anything remotely approaching “what are founding fathers” designed nor within a strict Constitutional reading. It is in the end a form of collectivism on that even these faux Adam Smiths in Texas have their hand in.
Shhhh!!! That ain’t no gubmint money. It’s just like how the gubmint keeps its hands off of Texan’s Medicare! Besides, that money is for OIL companies. They deserve it more than poor people!
| 270 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:41:52pm |
re: #256 LudwigVanQuixote
Competency exams insure that teachers will teach to a bubble test rather than actually teach.
It is impossible to create a real exam in bubble format. The best that can be created is a sort of test of trivia they thought was important. I suppose it can have a limited application in terms of basic history but they are useless for, mathematics, science or literature. In fact, they essentially insure that no actual learning - as in learning actual applicable knowledge gets done.
Even with history, it is impossible. You can not ask a good history question that demonstrates some notion of cause and effect, without essays.
Knowing that Gettysburg happened in July is trivia. Knowing things that caused the Civil war is knowledge.
Being able to rule out wrong math or science answers and guess the right one out of the two left based on units of algebra tricks is a certain skill - but it is not the same thing as understanding science.
The more I look at GOP ideas about education, the more I am shocked, in that the comprehensive way they wish to destroy it could not be better evolved.
Double edged sword.
We have science and math teachers here in NC who do not know their subject matter- and they laugh about it, knowing they can’t get fired.
LVQ, the political climate is one thing. That we’re not teaching our kids is a whole other problem.
| 271 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:42:37pm |
re: #252 engineer dog
my best prediction at this point is that mooselini will savage smiley mcmormonpants in the primaries and fatally weaken him, but that the old line gop will pull strings and get him nominated anyway because they know mooselini would be a 40 state loss
that’ll be ugly
Mooselini? what is that Bulwinkile’s Italian cousin?
| 272 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:43:22pm |
| 273 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:43:47pm |
re: #236 PT Barnum
In Steve’s case it’s ODS writ large
And education DS and social security DS and Degree DS. But other than that, the man is totally balanced.
| 274 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:44:42pm |
re: #270 researchok
Double edged sword.
We have science and math teachers here in NC who do not know their subject matter- and they laugh about it, knowing they can’t get fired.
LVQ, the political climate is one thing. That we’re not teaching our kids is a whole other problem.
And I get the results of that system in my classes at university. At this point, I have had over 6,000 students. I will keep my own council as to what is wrong.
| 275 |
deranged cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:45:06pm |
re: #79 HappyWarrior
I am not surprised. Whole thing stank honest It’s not like Breitbart is credible at all. Not that it stopped Palin. I love that it looks like Murkowski is going to beat Miller. Not because I particularly like her but because Palin’s political capital looks to be in the dump because of that,
re: #81 wozzablog
i am really curious to see how she votes, or rather how she feels about the GOP. Murkowski was kicked to the curb by the GOP (especially Palin), and the GOP (or certain GOP members) actively tried to sabotage her campaign (with the registration of 150 names, etc). According to 538, she was the 4th most liberal GOP Senator (5th most after Brown).
needless to say, i would be pissed. that is a LOT of betrayal right there. Anybody she’ll become an independent? And on a related note, when she wins… what is she winning as? she wouldnt be a republican, right?
| 276 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:45:19pm |
re: #266 Slumbering Behemoth
Now that would make sense. But from the overly race sensitive on the left? Do they even know what the story is about?
The aide’s case was bogus—she just looked about for a weapon. The school came down for the daughter (County Teacher of the of the Month and Year). She sets up virtual video classroom visits with far distant schools. Some freak when they see all her students are in orange jump suits.
| 277 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:45:41pm |
re: #273 LudwigVanQuixote
And education DS and social security DS and Degree DS. But other than that, the man is totally balanced.
heh….don’t get lost on your detour bro, you make a lousy bully
| 278 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:45:41pm |
re: #269 LudwigVanQuixote
Shhh!!! That ain’t no gubmint money. It’s just like how the gubmint keeps its hands off of Texan’s Medicare! Besides, that money is for OIL companies. They deserve it more than poor people!
Oil is an essentially component to our national security! Why do you hate America?!?!
Eleventy!
/
| 279 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:46:02pm |
re: #270 researchok
Double edged sword.
We have science and math teachers here in NC who do not know their subject matter- and they laugh about it, knowing they can’t get fired.
LVQ, the political climate is one thing. That we’re not teaching our kids is a whole other problem.
Maybe that’s a problem with NC not funding their schools?
I had science and math teachers in Washington state that ran their own prostethic limb consulting firms and coded their own Macintosh applications. I had art classes in public school run by a graphic designer who’s done jobs for fortune 500 companies.
Public school. I’d put my public school trig/C++/pascal teacher against any private school math teacher in the country. She’d lay waste to anyone with her gigantic brain.
And probably also wouldn’t get hired at a catholic school because she was an out very butch lesbian and would not fit into the culture of most private schools at all.
| 280 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:46:07pm |
re: #267 brookly red
I went to public school as my sister did… between us we have 5 degrees. I have a lot of issues with our public education system but in all fairness like anything else in life you get out what you put in.
I can tell you there are plenty of parents and kids who want to get an education. I can also tell you many public schools make it virtually impossible.
This is not about politics, or least should not be.
This is the one subject on which I am most bitter. Everyone has let these kids down for decades- and no one gives a damn.
Maybe it is because I’m a divorced parent and wasn’t near my kid 24/7.
I take issues that affect kids really seriously. I could care less about political ideology.
| 281 |
allegro Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:46:20pm |
| 282 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:46:31pm |
re: #274 LudwigVanQuixote
And I get the results of that system in my classes at university. At this point, I have had over 6,000 students. I will keep my own council as to what is wrong.
I’ll take your opinion over his, one anecdote versus dude who teaches college :D
| 283 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:46:43pm |
re: #280 researchok
I can tell you there are plenty of parents and kids who want to get an education. I can also tell you many public schools make it virtually impossible.
This is not about politics, or least should not be.
This is the one subject on which I am most bitter. Everyone has let these kids down for decades- and no one gives a damn.
Maybe it is because I’m a divorced parent and wasn’t near my kid 24/7.
I take issues that affect kids really seriously. I could care less about political ideology.
This is bullshit
| 284 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:47:13pm |
re: #274 LudwigVanQuixote
And I get the results of that system in my classes at university. At this point, I have had over 6,000 students. I will keep my own council as to what is wrong.
As I noted once, same page, LVQ.
And therein is a whole other essay. Or two. Or three.
| 285 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:47:22pm |
re: #260 researchok
Obdi, we can go round and round on this issue. That may even serve a purpose.
Nevertheless, when poor and minority parents beg and plead for a space in a private school, the details somehow lose importance.
Well, they shouldn’t. Not if you actually want to solve the problem.
There are huge problems in the public school system. However, the fact that we have very, very, very many successful school districts, including ones with 100% minority students, shows us that the problem is not inherent in public education.
There is no possibility of simply handing the problem off to private schools to fix. You can’t force private schools to take any and all students. As much as it’d be great if that solution were actually possible, it is not. Pretending that it is will not fix the problem.
| 286 |
allegro Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:47:36pm |
re: #275 deranged cat
She said a couple of days ago that she will continue to caucus with Reps.
| 287 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:48:21pm |
re: #225 albusteve
man up…BO will likely be gone after that…one and done
and then things will get better? under president who? Palin?
| 288 |
darthstar Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:48:23pm |
re: #286 allegro
She said a couple of days ago that she will continue to caucus with Reps.
She was bragging about it last night and this morning too.
| 289 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:48:41pm |
re: #282 WindUpBird
I’ll take your opinion over his, one anecdote versus dude who teaches college :D
Do you think LVQ and I are on different pages?
Maybe in how we address the problem, but no more.
Of that I’m pretty sure.
| 290 |
Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:48:42pm |
That’s my thoughts on the last 24 hours
| 291 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:48:53pm |
re: #280 researchok
I can tell you there are plenty of parents and kids who want to get an education. I can also tell you many public schools make it virtually impossible.
This is not about politics, or least should not be.
This is the one subject on which I am most bitter. Everyone has let these kids down for decades- and no one gives a damn.
Maybe it is because I’m a divorced parent and wasn’t near my kid 24/7.
I take issues that affect kids really seriously. I could care less about political ideology.
no, I think you are a bit off here, everyone gives a damn… we just can’t agree on how to fix it.
| 292 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:49:15pm |
re: #282 WindUpBird
I’ll take your opinion over his, one anecdote versus dude who teaches college :D
some of the worst human beings I’ve ever encountered were university instructors…you just cannot stereotype
| 293 |
deranged cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:49:55pm |
| 294 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:49:57pm |
re: #287 palomino
and then things will get better? under president who? Palin?
hahaha!
it could happen, then what?
| 295 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:50:28pm |
re: #279 WindUpBird
Maybe that’s a problem with NC not funding their schools?
The problem is usually not just funding— some school districts are very well funded and still failing. The problem is often how the funding is being applied, and the ways that parents are being engaged with. The problem is often the administrators and the attitude towards the student body.
The main problem is that public schools have to take on every student, and that that is an enormous problem. It leads to massive discipline, morale, and other problems.
We have working examples of public school systems that are successes. Exporting that learning is a challenge, especially in the face of local school boards who are much more interested in moral issues than educational ones.
| 296 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:50:39pm |
re: #285 Obdicut
Well, they shouldn’t. Not if you actually want to solve the problem.
There are huge problems in the public school system. However, the fact that we have very, very, very many successful school districts, including ones with 100% minority students, shows us that the problem is not inherent in public education.
There is no possibility of simply handing the problem off to private schools to fix. You can’t force private schools to take any and all students. As much as it’d be great if that solution were actually possible, it is not. Pretending that it is will not fix the problem.
I don’t know what the solution is.
What I do know is that for decades, we have been failing, repeating the same mistakes over and over.
I submit the solution is many faceted. I just refuse to get into the politics of it. These kids have been let down for decades.
| 297 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:51:16pm |
re: #295 Obdicut
The problem is usually not just funding— some school districts are very well funded and still failing. The problem is often how the funding is being applied, and the ways that parents are being engaged with. The problem is often the administrators and the attitude towards the student body.
The main problem is that public schools have to take on every student, and that that is an enormous problem. It leads to massive discipline, morale, and other problems.
We have working examples of public school systems that are successes. Exporting that learning is a challenge, especially in the face of local school boards who are much more interested in moral issues than educational ones.
Thank you. Well said.
| 298 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:52:43pm |
re: #285 Obdicut
Well, they shouldn’t. Not if you actually want to solve the problem.
There are huge problems in the public school system. However, the fact that we have very, very, very many successful school districts, including ones with 100% minority students, shows us that the problem is not inherent in public education.
There is no possibility of simply handing the problem off to private schools to fix. You can’t force private schools to take any and all students. As much as it’d be great if that solution were actually possible, it is not. Pretending that it is will not fix the problem.
Maybe the problem is that an Alabama beginning teacher makes less than 1/500 of Rothlisberger’s take, and he can’t even get Pittsburgh to the SB.
| 299 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:52:48pm |
re: #296 researchok
I submit the solution is many faceted. I just refuse to get into the politics of it. These kids have been let down for decades.
I’m sorry, but when you flat-out state that the problem is the teachers union’s leadership, you certainly have engaged with the politics of it. When you state that you support school vouchers, you have engaged with the politics of it.
I think you’ve done so with a good heart and the best of all intentions, and I do think there are many lessons to be learned from private schools. But I can’t see how on earth you can say you haven’t engaged with the politics of it.
| 300 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:53:21pm |
re: #294 albusteve
hahaha!
it could happen, then what?
I don’t know, probably entertaining at least. What do you think?
| 301 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:54:13pm |
re: #280 researchok
I can tell you there are plenty of parents and kids who want to get an education. I can also tell you many public schools make it virtually impossible.
This is total bullshit
Let’s see, of the close friends of mine from high school I’m still in touch with, all of us went to public school, K-12:
Friend one: Served on a nuclear sub, has a masters, now in the FBI
Friend two: linguist who’s trying to save dying indian languages
Friend three: real estate whiz in alaska
Friend four: gallery artist in new york city, studied with masters around the world in various printmaking disciples
Friend five: works high up writing software for weaponry for boeing (or a contractor for boeing, it gets complicated) has security clearances he can’t even talk about
Friend six: has her own landscaping company, grew up DIRT POOR and now is essentially doing her dream job, which is high end gardening and outdoor sculpture for a living
Friend seven: serves on the water board of his district, works for the park service, has a lot of crazy responsibilities for their IT department
Friends eight and nine: corporate lawyers
And friend eight who went to a catholic school? Shat on constantly, beat up, dissed by his idiot classmates, couldn’t wait to get into the International Baccalauerate program at his public school after he got out of catholic school.
So yeah. Anecdote wars!
| 302 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:54:16pm |
re: #291 brookly red
no, I think you are a bit off here, everyone gives a damn… we just can’t agree on how to fix it.
Not taking a stand and debating and doing nothing all the while is a choice.
Only poor and minority kids have to live with the consequences.
I may be right of center but when it comes to kids, society has a compact with them that is non ideological.
We have to care for them and educate them as best we can.
Children ought not have to pay because of our political narcissism.
| 303 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:55:15pm |
re: #295 Obdicut
The problem is usually not just funding— some school districts are very well funded and still failing. The problem is often how the funding is being applied, and the ways that parents are being engaged with. The problem is often the administrators and the attitude towards the student body.
The main problem is that public schools have to take on every student, and that that is an enormous problem. It leads to massive discipline, morale, and other problems.
We have working examples of public school systems that are successes. Exporting that learning is a challenge, especially in the face of local school boards who are much more interested in moral issues than educational ones.
My brother has a teaching degree, he’s told me terrible stories about top heavy administration, yes o_o
And yeah, bolded for truth.
| 304 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:55:36pm |
re: #114 Rightwingconspirator
It’s quite possible the Tea Parties will fold, in the sense that A-The GOP PAC that backs the TP has a better grasp of political reality (no Social Security takedown will be contemplated) And B-The Tea Party will have the same experience the left did as Obama kept Gitmo open, failed to get the full blown public option Medical reform out there, and kept many Bush era policies on spying for the GWOT. In other words reality is a harsh teacher.
Good points but I think there’s a difference. Obama thankfully moved to the center after the election but the Dems still had some good ideas they could deliver on. They’ve been trying to get healthcare reform for decades and finally got it passed. They’re also funding alternative energy stuff. The Republicans have a few ideas they can reasonably deliver on like tax cuts for the rich, investigating global warming scientists and defunding groups like ACORN. It might keep their base happy but these are all pretty much dead ends or meaningless. Their bigger promises like smaller government, etc are never going to happen.
| 305 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:55:45pm |
re: #300 palomino
I don’t know, probably entertaining at least. What do you think?
I’ll move to Jamaica…seriously, Palin gags me….her theatrics, bravado and over the top histrionics are bad for the country…she’s got nothin and it’s a damned shame her and her ilk have come so far
| 306 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:55:46pm |
re: #302 researchok
Not taking a stand and debating and doing nothing all the while is a choice.
Only poor and minority kids have to live with the consequences.
I may be right of center but when it comes to kids, society has a compact with them that is non ideological.
We have to care for them and educate them as best we can.
Children ought not have to pay because of our political narcissism.
But you’re taking the exact Republican stand on schools
and then claiming it’s non-political?
Yeahno. Not buying it
| 307 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:55:52pm |
re: #298 Decatur Deb
Maybe the problem is that an Alabama beginning teacher makes less than 1/500 of Rothlisberger’s take, and he can’t even get Pittsburgh to the SB.
I do definitely think that what Ludwig said about Jewish culture the other day is a big part of it. Jewish culture holds learning up as the highest achievement, and a doctor, a professor, is far more cherished than a franchise owner or an athelete.
In general American culture, we lionize kids who are sports stars. We ostracize kids that are nerds and scientists. And the GOP publicly castigates scientists as everything from immoral to greedy liars. We have a gigantic anti-science, anti-intellectual streak in this country, and one of the major parties celebrates it on a daily basis. But it’s far beyond the GOP; the anti-intellectual streak in the US runs wide, and deep, and they did not start it nor are they the source of it.
We need to change our culture. We need to celebrate scientists, and we need to stop pretending that everyone who earns a million dollars is somehow proved to be worthy or intelligent or anything else by virtue of doing so.
| 308 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:57:16pm |
re: #307 Obdicut
I do definitely think that what Ludwig said about Jewish culture the other day is a big part of it. Jewish culture holds learning up as the highest achievement, and a doctor, a professor, is far more cherished than a franchise owner or an athelete.
In general American culture, we lionize kids who are sports stars. We ostracize kids that are nerds and scientists. And the GOP publicly castigates scientists as everything from immoral to greedy liars. We have a gigantic anti-science, anti-intellectual streak in this country, and one of the major parties celebrates it on a daily basis. But it’s far beyond the GOP; the anti-intellectual streak in the US runs wide, and deep, and they did not start it nor are they the source of it.
We need to change our culture. We need to celebrate scientists, and we need to stop pretending that everyone who earns a million dollars is somehow proved to be worthy or intelligent or anything else by virtue of doing so.
THIS
FOR
EVER
| 309 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:58:14pm |
We gotta educate our children better!
And then we have to demonize the smartest members of our society as elitists and evil!
| 310 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:58:17pm |
re: #270 researchok
Double edged sword.
We have science and math teachers here in NC who do not know their subject matter- and they laugh about it, knowing they can’t get fired.
LVQ, the political climate is one thing. That we’re not teaching our kids is a whole other problem.
We have social studies teachers here in NYC without basic understandings of economics or geography.
I’ve been at conferences and classes with history teachers who would fail the New York State Regents exam in history.
I don’t know what the answer is but I do know that protecting incompetent teachers screws our kids.
| 311 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:58:52pm |
| 312 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:59:01pm |
re: #310 alexknyc
The problem you run into right after firing them, however, is replacing them.
| 313 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:59:13pm |
re: #307 Obdicut
We need to change our culture. We need to celebrate scientists…
I completely agree but, good luck with that.
| 314 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:59:30pm |
re: #299 Obdicut
I’m sorry, but when you flat-out state that the problem is the teachers union’s leadership, you certainly have engaged with the politics of it. When you state that you support school vouchers, you have engaged with the politics of it.
I think you’ve done so with a good heart and the best of all intentions, and I do think there are many lessons to be learned from private schools. But I can’t see how on earth you can say you haven’t engaged with the politics of it.
I disagree. The unions have shortchanged the kids.
In Bend Oregon, (I have a very close friend from there) the school districts are talking about or have already shortened the school week because of budgetary restraints.
Increased allotments of funds from state government were used to fund teachers pensions as opposed to going to students or education. Mediocre teachers are retiring on $85,000 a year pensions.
My friend just moved to Virginia and put her daughter in a public school there. She says the difference is like night and day- and teachers don’t get paid as well as they do in Bend.
This isn’t political in the party politics way. I don’t care about that.
The kids are getting screwed. What’s wrong with this picture?
| 315 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 3:59:43pm |
re: #281 allegro
Well this is… discouraging:
The Senate. The last bastion of equality.
It’s going to take 2-3 generations I’m afraid.
| 316 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:00:37pm |
re: #292 albusteve
some of the worst human beings I’ve ever encountered were university instructors…you just cannot stereotype
I’m pretty sure LUDWIG is not one of the worst human beings you’ve encountered.
I get anecdotes from one guy, versus informed opinions from someone who actually has experience with high school kids entering college that (I think) is pretty respected around here. I’m not stereotyping, I’m talking about the actual real person who posts on this board who teaches at university. 9_9
| 317 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:00:45pm |
re: #310 alexknyc
We have social studies teachers here in NYC without basic understandings of economics or geography.
I’ve been at conferences and classes with history teachers who would fail the New York State Regents exam in history.
I don’t know what the answer is but I do know that protecting incompetent teachers screws our kids.
If a school system can’t shake off an incompetent, non-fixable teacher, that is a management failure, not a union failure. Get better administrators who know how to use their vast advantages.
| 318 |
kirkspencer Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:00:58pm |
re: #296 researchok
I don’t know what the solution is.
What I do know is that for decades, we have been failing, repeating the same mistakes over and over.
I submit the solution is many faceted. I just refuse to get into the politics of it. These kids have been let down for decades.
A fascinating discovery I ran across is that one of the best indicators of student performance is parental involvement, a good proxy of which is parent volunteerism.
Now it may or may not be obvious, but if both parents are working a job and a half, they’re not going to be available to volunteer, and probably aren’t going to do much in support at home. There’s a decent (though not critical) correlation between the gradual change to both parents working and the decrease in student performance.
In simple sexism, when Mom had to start working so the family could pay the bills, Johnny quit learning as well at school.
| 319 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:01:48pm |
re: #306 WindUpBird
But you’re taking the exact Republican stand on schools
and then claiming it’s non-political?
Yeahno. Not buying it
Yeah, decades of Dem rule in the south has produced great schools.
/
This isn’t a dem/GOP issue, no matter how badly you want it to be so.
| 320 |
allegro Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:02:11pm |
re: #302 researchok
Not taking a stand and debating and doing nothing all the while is a choice.
Only poor and minority kids have to live with the consequences.
I may be right of center but when it comes to kids, society has a compact with them that is non ideological.
We have to care for them and educate them as best we can.
Children ought not have to pay because of our political narcissism.
A big part of kids learning is having a home support system. This means having a home that isn’t a car where there is food on the table, healthcare, parents who aren’t both working 2 jobs, clothes to wear, living without daily fear. It isn’t just schools. No school can overcome these things.
| 321 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:02:16pm |
re: #314 researchok
I am really at a loss as to what your anecdote was supposed to relate. Giving teachers pensions is always a bad thing? In Virginia they don’t have pensions?
How on earth did your anecdote support the contention that ‘the unions have shortchanged the kids’?
Why are you so insistent on defining your position as apolitical? I can agree your motives are apolitical. Your position, however, is not, nor would any action that would be taken as a result of your position be non-political. Public school education discussions are, by their very nature, political discussions.
| 322 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:02:29pm |
re: #318 kirkspencer
A fascinating discovery I ran across is that one of the best indicators of student performance is parental involvement, a good proxy of which is parent volunteerism.
Now it may or may not be obvious, but if both parents are working a job and a half, they’re not going to be available to volunteer, and probably aren’t going to do much in support at home. There’s a decent (though not critical) correlation between the gradual change to both parents working and the decrease in student performance.
In simple sexism, when Mom had to start working so the family could pay the bills, Johnny quit learning as well at school.
Upding, but redeem yourself with the notion that the critical stay-at-home could be dad.
| 323 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:03:26pm |
re: #322 Decatur Deb
Upding, but redeem yourself with the notion that the critical stay-at-home could be dad.
Or a gay uncle, with a nod to Dawkin’s selfish gene theory.
| 324 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:03:33pm |
re: #318 kirkspencer
ding ding ding
Moving money out of public education and into vouchers is just rearranging the same deck chairs, only rearranging them so that rich people and Christians are made happier.
As if every private school would suddenly become really easy to afford for poor people with some vouchers. People I worked with at my health care job with kids, had barely the money to buy SCHOOL SUPPLIES.
| 325 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:03:41pm |
re: #301 WindUpBird
This is total bullshit
Let’s see, of the close friends of mine from high school I’m still in touch with, all of us went to public school, K-12:
Friend one: Served on a nuclear sub, has a masters, now in the FBI
Friend two: linguist who’s trying to save dying indian languages
Friend three: real estate whiz in alaska
Friend four: gallery artist in new york city, studied with masters around the world in various printmaking disciples
Friend five: works high up writing software for weaponry for boeing (or a contractor for boeing, it gets complicated) has security clearances he can’t even talk about
Friend six: has her own landscaping company, grew up DIRT POOR and now is essentially doing her dream job, which is high end gardening and outdoor sculpture for a living
Friend seven: serves on the water board of his district, works for the park service, has a lot of crazy responsibilities for their IT department
Friends eight and nine: corporate lawyersAnd friend eight who went to a catholic school? Shat on constantly, beat up, dissed by his idiot classmates, couldn’t wait to get into the International Baccalauerate program at his public school after he got out of catholic school.
So yeah. Anecdote wars!
You are right.
The drop out rate and failure rates in large urban areas are a myth.
| 326 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:03:53pm |
re: #316 WindUpBird
I’m pretty sure LUDWIG is not one of the worst human beings you’ve encountered.
I get anecdotes from one guy, versus informed opinions from someone who actually has experience with high school kids entering college that (I think) is pretty respected around here. I’m not stereotyping, I’m talking about the actual real person who posts on this board who teaches at university. 9_9
both are anecdotal…you simply have more faith in one story than another…no harm in that tho
| 327 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:04:26pm |
re: #323 Obdicut
Or a gay uncle, with a nod to Dawkin’s selfish gene theory.
Or grandparent, if those damn kids hadn’t moved their families all over the East.
| 328 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:04:31pm |
re: #319 researchok
Yeah, decades of Dem rule in the south has produced great schools.
/This isn’t a dem/GOP issue, no matter how badly you want it to be so.
You’re the one repeating all the GOP platforms, dude
Oh yeah, and did you ever respond to my list of everyone I know who went to HORRIBLE TERRIBLE PUBLIC SCHOOLS?
| 329 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:04:53pm |
re: #305 albusteve
I’ll move to Jamaica…seriously, Palin gags me…her theatrics, bravado and over the top histrionics are bad for the country…she’s got nothin and it’s a damned shame her and her ilk have come so far
Agreed on Palin. I think she has less of a chance at the nod now than I did a year ago. Her influence over races last night wasn’t spectacular. And you’ve got establishment republicans like Rove sort of testing the waters by questioning her competency for the job.
Then again, the gop base has a lot of tea partiers. And they will have a say in the primaries. Maybe she won’t even run, she doesn’t seem like a tireless worker needed to run; and she doesn’t seem to have bothered to learn policy over the last 2 years.
| 330 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:05:08pm |
re: #312 Obdicut
The problem you run into right after firing them, however, is replacing them.
I agree.
And New York State makes it nearly impossible to gain teacher certification if you actually teach for a while before going to grad school.
Again, I don’t have a solution but the problems are quite clear.
| 331 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:05:31pm |
re: #326 albusteve
both are anecdotal…you simply have more faith in one story than another…no harm in that tho
Ludwig isn’t lying about being a teacher.
| 332 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:06:02pm |
re: #307 Obdicut
I do definitely think that what Ludwig said about Jewish culture the other day is a big part of it. Jewish culture holds learning up as the highest achievement, and a doctor, a professor, is far more cherished than a franchise owner or an athelete.
In general American culture, we lionize kids who are sports stars. We ostracize kids that are nerds and scientists. And the GOP publicly castigates scientists as everything from immoral to greedy liars. We have a gigantic anti-science, anti-intellectual streak in this country, and one of the major parties celebrates it on a daily basis. But it’s far beyond the GOP; the anti-intellectual streak in the US runs wide, and deep, and they did not start it nor are they the source of it.
We need to change our culture. We need to celebrate scientists, and we need to stop pretending that everyone who earns a million dollars is somehow proved to be worthy or intelligent or anything else by virtue of doing so.
And there you have it. A culture that values education creates good schools and doesn’t tolerate BS in them.
One that thinks that “book smart” is both an insult, and something less than whatever kind of not smart they are going to promote as a sop to being ignorant, will produce public schools like the ones we have in all too many areas.
I really don’t have the time tonight to get into an endless education debate or discussion. The very short form is that if you pay enough for enough good people to become teachers such that individual kids get individual attention - fit to their learning styles - coupled with actual standards of syllabus - or you get left behind a grade, you get a functioning school system.
On the other hand, is kids don’t do well on tests so the obvious answer becomes lowering standards so everyone can feel like they have passed when they haven’t and if voters act like they are bleeding when it comes to paying for schools and teacher salaries, we get the mess we have.
To do it right we need to double teacher salaries to insure that talented people do the job - it isn’t like they are doing anything important, like educating the next generation or anything right (!?!) and we need to double or triple the number of teachers. That means we need to pay for it.
In terms of actual money spent - it really isn’t all that much. The Federal government needs to subsidize poorer areas so the standards are the same, rather than basing everything on property taxes, and strong real standards of hat constitutes an education need to be set by educators and professors, not politicians.
The simple fact of the matter is that kids in almost every other Western nation dut ours and they end up paying less than we do over all or per capita. Then again in a nation like Israel, if it is a choice between buying text books for a school or building a new gym, the books win every time. In America, the Gym wins every time.
| 333 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:06:14pm |
re: #325 researchok
You are right.
The drop out rate and failure rates in large urban areas are a myth.
haha that’s what i thought, no answer
| 334 |
kirkspencer Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:06:16pm |
re: #322 Decatur Deb
Upding, but redeem yourself with the notion that the critical stay-at-home could be dad.
Note the intentionally ironic “in simple sexism” opening. I didn’t add a sarc tag because the intent of the whole wasn’t sarcastic.
| 335 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:06:16pm |
re: #50 LudwigVanQuixote
By the way, I keep meaning to urge everyone who posts to LGF Pages, to set your personal Pages URL as your ‘Homepage’ in your Account. Then it will automatically be linked to your username when you post a comment.
For example, LVQ’s personal URL is:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/pages/LudwigVanQuixote
Then if someone wants to see your Pages, they can just click on your name in any comment.
| 336 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:06:36pm |
re: #307 Obdicut
roger that, i am a big fan of an excellent education for all children
but i think a big part of the corporate agenda in this country is to force american workers to be “less expensive”, and making education harder to get is part of that agenda
at the same time this is good - as an utterly selfish and heartless matter - for all of us who already have educations and find that there is now a shortage of trained people for professional and, especially, techical jobs
| 337 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:06:55pm |
I went to an “experimental” public high school and it was a good experience. It was set up like a college in as much as we had a core curriculum + elective credits both academic and vocational… it worked well in my opinion. Allowing student to have some input into to what they study would help IMO.
| 338 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:07:27pm |
re: #321 Obdicut
I am really at a loss as to what your anecdote was supposed to relate. Giving teachers pensions is always a bad thing? In Virginia they don’t have pensions?
How on earth did your anecdote support the contention that ‘the unions have shortchanged the kids’?
Why are you so insistent on defining your position as apolitical? I can agree your motives are apolitical. Your position, however, is not, nor would any action that would be taken as a result of your position be non-political. Public school education discussions are, by their very nature, political discussions.
OK, you’re right. I’m a cold hearted righty bastard.
Look, pensions are fine- but not at the expense of kids. I don’t care whether it’s a Dem or GOP state.
| 339 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:08:03pm |
re: #332 LudwigVanQuixote
Scientists used to be seen as the rock stars of their day, but that was long ago. Now we just worship rock stars.
| 340 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:08:17pm |
Fucking prepare yourself. As always with Sister Sarah’s verbatim comments, it’s best to read them out loud.
ET’s Mary Hart asks Sarah, “How does it feel to be one of the most polarizing figures in America today?”
“That is a bit perplexing because I think, what is polarizing or extreme about believing, politically speaking, in the United States Constitution? And our Declaration of Independence, and all those things that it stands for? And what our founding mothers and fathers in this country meant for America to keep building upon? Those are the things that I believe in. What’s extreme about that? How is that polarizing? So I’m still perplexed by that, that characterization of the polarization.”
Entertainment Tonight - the perfect stepping stone for the GOP’s next nominee (h/t to albusteve)
| 341 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:09:20pm |
re: #331 WindUpBird
Ludwig isn’t lying about being a teacher.
and I’m not lying about my own three degrees or that anyone else is lying….there are assholes everywhere, that’s all
| 342 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:09:32pm |
re: #333 WindUpBird
haha that’s what i thought, no answer
Actually, that is precisely the answer.
In your world, there is no problem that can be addressed unless the solution fits your narrative.
| 343 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:09:39pm |
re: #317 Decatur Deb
If a school system can’t shake off an incompetent, non-fixable teacher, that is a management failure, not a union failure. Get better administrators who know how to use their vast advantages.
Tenure in the NYC school system is a beast.
Firing an incompetent teacher can take two years or more.
Administrators simply reshuffle the deck— moving bad teachers into other schools (now that the rubber room is gone) and getting the dregs from other schools— because going through the procedure is just too time-consuming.
Gaining tenure in NYC is an absolute nightmare as well. I’ve known several competent well-liked and effective teachers denied tenure in favor of people with personal relationships with principals.
The whole thing is broken and no one (including me) has any idea how to fix it.
| 344 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:09:51pm |
Looking at energy subsidies and such and came across this:
Remarks on Signing the Alternative Motor Fuels Act of 1988
October 14, 1988
Well, Members of Congress and distinguished guests, good afternoon. We’re here today to sign into law an investment in America’s future: the Alternative Motor Fuels Act of 1988. This bill is a landmark in the quest for alternative forms of energy. And believe me, when you’re my age you just love hearing about alternative sources of energy. [Laughter]
I’m particularly proud this afternoon because I remember more than 4 years ago, at a Cabinet meeting in January 1984, and I asked Vice President George Bush to launch a thorough investigation of alternative energy and see what he could find — not pie-in-the-sky demonstration projects but real-world possibilities and realistic options that would help keep our air clean and our nation less dependent on foreign oil.
That’s what’s so exciting about the bill before us today: The forms of energy encouraged by this bill are already in use. Methanol, for example, is used in the Indianapolis 500 and in other race cars because it simultaneously enhances performance and safety. And cars that run on methanol have the potential to reduce emissions by an amazing 50 percent and improve efficiency. For areas like southern California, that could be a Godsend. A few months ago, Vice President Bush dedicated the first methanol pump on Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles. And this bill gives American automobile companies a real incentive to start building cars powered by alternative fuels by adjusting the federally mandated average fuel economy ratings to reflect the gasoline saved by these vehicles.
This legislation also opens up new markets for natural gas and coal, our two most plentiful energy resources in this country. The success of these projects could improve employment and the economies in the hard-pressed oil- and gas-producing areas of the country. This bill takes advantage of existing government programs and mechanisms to assist alternative fuels. Most important, it’s not intended to create massive new bureaucracies or new taxpayer subsidies.
So, I thank you, and may God bless you all. And I’m now going to sign that bill into law.
You should be able to tell who this is by the very first word used in the speech, “well”. This was Ronald Reagan. The bill was S.1518 Title: Alternative Motor Fuels Act of 1988 which was sponsored by Senator Jay Rockefeller (D-WV). It was also co-sponsored by Senators John Kerry (D-MA) and Al Gore (D-TN). Other notable co-sponsors included Harry Reid, Dan Quayle, and Mitch McConnell.
| 345 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:10:13pm |
re: #338 researchok
OK, you’re right. I’m a cold hearted righty bastard.
Why the hell are you pulling this? After I repeatedly say, over and over, that I think your intentions are good, that you have the kids best interests at heart? Why on earth would you stoop to making the accusation that I’m saying you’re a cold-hearted righty bastard?
I just don’t get it. Why do you want to make the conversation go to that level between us? I haven’t taken it there. All I’ve done is insist that a conversation about how public schools— a government institution— need to be dealt with is by nature a political discussion.
It’s really, really bizarre to me that, after I take the time to repeatedly state how much I am sure that your motives are pure and that your intentions are the best, you accuse me of vilifying you.
| 346 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:10:34pm |
re: #341 albusteve
and I’m not lying about my own three degrees or that anyone else is lying…there are assholes everywhere, that’s all
Any luck with the leg, Steve? We want to know so we can stop being nice to you.
| 347 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:10:42pm |
re: #341 albusteve
and I’m not lying about my own three degrees or that anyone else is lying…there are assholes everywhere, that’s all
I have had a coupla 5th degrees…
| 348 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:10:45pm |
what is polarizing or extreme about believing, politically speaking, in the United States Constitution? And our Declaration of Independence, and all those things that it stands for? And what our founding mothers and fathers in this country meant for America to keep building upon?
indeed, what could be polarizing about saying a lot of lying stupid-ass shit and then atttempting to justify it with the most bland and contentless of platitudes?
| 349 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:11:32pm |
re: #328 WindUpBird
You’re the one repeating all the GOP platforms, dude
Oh yeah, and did you ever respond to my list of everyone I know who went to HORRIBLE TERRIBLE PUBLIC SCHOOLS?
What GOP platform is that?
That I give a damn about the schools? Do you? Or is demonizing me more important?
| 350 |
JeffFX Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:11:41pm |
re: #338 researchok
OK, you’re right. I’m a cold hearted righty bastard.
Look, pensions are fine- but not at the expense of kids. I don’t care whether it’s a Dem or GOP state.
As long as you’re not talking about failing to pay pensions that have already been negotiated. That would be a betrayal.
| 351 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:12:59pm |
re: #346 Decatur Deb
Any luck with the leg, Steve? We want to know so we can stop being nice to you.
good one…don’t pull no punches with me…
my leg is doing fine but it’s slow going…I should be fitted with a peg in a few weeks…I’m cool, you can be a jerk now and thanks for asking…it’s been a real trip
| 352 |
allegro Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:13:06pm |
re: #338 researchok
Look, pensions are fine- but not at the expense of kids. I don’t care whether it’s a Dem or GOP state.
Do you really believe that paying teachers is at the “expense of kids”? You do understand that a pension is part of the salary package, don’t you?
| 353 |
JeffFX Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:13:25pm |
re: #347 brookly red
I have had a coupla 5th degrees…
I spun a ‘64 Cadillac Sedan Deville 720 degrees in the snow. Hit nothing.
| 354 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:13:48pm |
re: #275 deranged cat
She’s already said that she’ll be caucusing with the GOP.
| 355 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:13:49pm |
re: #343 alexknyc
Tenure in the NYC school system is a beast.
Firing an incompetent teacher can take two years or more.
Administrators simply reshuffle the deck— moving bad teachers into other schools (now that the rubber room is gone) and getting the dregs from other schools— because going through the procedure is just too time-consuming.
Gaining tenure in NYC is an absolute nightmare as well. I’ve known several competent well-liked and effective teachers denied tenure in favor of people with personal relationships with principals.
The whole thing is broken and no one (including me) has any idea how to fix it.
well just eliminate tenure & have performance reviews/incentives… it work fine in the private sector.
| 356 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:14:16pm |
re: #343 alexknyc
It’s tough, but it’s all worth the effort. Be glad your unions are recognized as such. In Alabama they are folded into an Alabama Education Association, and most people expect them to hold bake sales for the glee club. Outrage sets in when they try to execute a limited role protecting teachers from limitless crap.
| 357 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:14:18pm |
re: #345 Obdicut
Why the hell are you pulling this? After I repeatedly say, over and over, that I think your intentions are good, that you have the kids best interests at heart? Why on earth would you stoop to making the accusation that I’m saying you’re a cold-hearted righty bastard?
I just don’t get it. Why do you want to make the conversation go to that level between us? I haven’t taken it there. All I’ve done is insist that a conversation about how public schools— a government institution— need to be dealt with is by nature a political discussion.
It’s really, really bizarre to me that, after I take the time to repeatedly state how much I am sure that your motives are pure and that your intentions are the best, you accuse me of vilifying you.
Sorry- missed the sarc tag! I know better about you.
The school issue is important to me. As I said, here in Wake County there is a move that will effectively bring back segregation. I cannoty begin to tell you how upsetting that is to me.
Hold on and I’ll get you a link.
| 358 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:14:21pm |
re: #347 brookly red
I have had a coupla 5th degrees…
I’ve had a couple of Fifths myself along the way
| 359 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:15:10pm |
re: #352 allegro
Do you really believe that paying teachers is at the “expense of kids”? You do understand that a pension is part of the salary package, don’t you?
My great friend is a teacher. Special Ed even.
She works her ASS off. It’s a life commitment. One I certainly do not see in my self-employed corporate world.
To in anyway denigrate teachers to me, is fucked up.
| 360 |
MurphysMom Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:15:44pm |
re: #189 Charles
As I said, maybe defensiveness is in the eye of the beholder. I’ve only seen Matthews a few times, so maybe what seems to me to be defensive and pouty is just his natural demeanor.
His question to Bachman about her wanting to investigate people for “un-American” activities was a good one. But it was one she obviously had no interest in answering, either time he asked. And his questions were respectful - right up until the sign showed up in the background. I think the sign was in bad taste, but I think he let it get under his skin and he showed it with the snarky “are you hypnotized” remark.
He should have left it with her non-answers. His invitation to come on the show and actually answer the question someday would have been a reasonable end to the interview. I think a journalist who wants to be taken seriously should treat the people he’s interviewing that way. He should give his audience enough credit to assume they can judge whether or not the person he’s interviewing should be taken seriously, and that they don’t need him to lead them down that path.
Plus, he does his own career a disservice - if he plays it that she’s a nitwit and beneath him, what does that say for his professional standing that he’s the one stuck interviewing her.
| 361 |
MinisterO Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:16:36pm |
re: #310 alexknyc
I don’t know what the answer is but I do know that protecting incompetent teachers screws our kids.
re: #312 Obdicut
The problem you run into right after firing them, however, is replacing them.
There is the conundrum. Good teachers are rare. Teaching in a public school is a shitty job, in terms of pay and respect, and often, working conditions. As a teacher everybody is your boss. In many places the promise of job security is all the public school system has to offer prospective teachers.
| 362 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:16:55pm |
Speaking of scientists…
Implanted chip ‘allows blind people to detect objects’
A man with an inherited form of blindness has been able to identify letters and a clock face using a pioneering implant, researchers say.
—-
Professor Eberhart Zrenner, of Germany’s University of Tuebingen, and colleagues at private company Retina Implant AG initially tested their sub-retinal chip on 11 people.
Some noticed no improvement as their condition was too advanced to benefit from the implant, but a majority were able to pick out bright objects, Prof Zrenner told the BBC.
Too bad Prof. Zrenner can’t end the story with a wicked guitar solo so more folks would pay attention.
/
| 363 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:16:56pm |
re: #357 researchok
Do you mean this?
[Link: www.newraleigh.com…]
The biggest news of the day: the clean sweep by the Republican backed school board candidates who have vowed to end diversity based busing. Chris Malone, Deborah Prickett, and Debra Goldman were all elected by a highly vocal and organized group of parents. John Tedesco defeated incumbent Horace Tart, but may have to have a runoff next month against Cathy Truitt who came in second in November. Truitt is also a neighborhood school supporter. The winning candidates and their supporters believe the existing system of bus based blending decreases the quality of their schools by bringing poorer students to the schools in an effort to have uniform ratios of free and reduced lunch students across the system.
| 364 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:17:00pm |
re: #242 Varek Raith
May the crazies be controlled.
Well, it’s a start.
And the Rangel and Waters trials will be starting soon.
| 365 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:17:42pm |
re: #360 MurphysMom
Matthews was irked at the reference to his leg tingle.
Some things can’t be unsaid.
| 366 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:17:55pm |
re: #355 brookly red
have performance reviews/incentives… it work fine in the private sector.
fine, but this goes against GOP dogma since it would mean not only giving more money (gasp!) to teachers, but imposing more government control over them as well
| 367 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:18:03pm |
re: #362 Slumbering Behemoth
Howsabout a link, then?
| 368 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:18:21pm |
re: #361 MinisterO
re: #312 Obdicut
There is the conundrum. Good teachers are rare. Teaching in a public school is a shitty job, in terms of pay and respect, and often, working conditions. As a teacher everybody is your boss. In many places the promise of job security is all the public school system has to offer prospective teachers.
bring back corporate punishment….beat ‘em into submission…
problem solved
| 369 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:18:31pm |
Busing to end in Wake County, N.C. Goodbye, school diversity?
The Dangerous Drift Back Towards Segregated Schools
Wake school board reverses diversity policy
Start there. That the national news media has not picked this up is an outrage- a real outrage.
| 370 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:18:38pm |
re: #60 darthstar
This woman deserves “Best Mother of the Year”…
Read the whole thing…it’s pretty awesome.
I was once working retail when a little boy came into my store, and fell hysterically in love with a pink stuffed kitty. I was thinking, “Aw, hell.” Some of the parents who wandered through our store could be…problems.
Dad, tough-looking dude in an Army T-shirt and that “I am a working class American man, don’t fuck with me” aura turns to me and says, “How much?”
I tell him, and he says, “OK, buddy, it’s yours,” and goes off with this ecstatic five year old clutching his pink kitty.
Parents who are not crazy are awesome.
| 371 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:19:04pm |
re: #65 Alouette
When you’re in pain, Vicodin does not get you high, it just stops the pain.
Allllllll the pain.
I really like Vicodin.
| 372 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:19:23pm |
re: #363 Obdicut
Do you mean this?
[Link: www.newraleigh.com…]
That’s part of it. See the CSM link above.
| 373 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:19:41pm |
re: #355 brookly red
well just eliminate tenure & have performance reviews/incentives… it work fine in the private sector.
I work with a Learning Disabled population. I take borderline kids and get as many as I can through the Regents Exam to get a high school diploma. I get roughly 80% of them through with an average grade around 75.
Another teacher I work with gets the class with the 120-150 IQs. He has a 100% passing rate and an average score in the 90s.
Incentives and merit pay would reward him, not me. His pass rate is higher and his average score is much better. Why would I want to continue working with the LD population if there are incentives and merit pay in the balance?
| 374 |
kirkspencer Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:20:12pm |
re: #361 MinisterO
re: #312 Obdicut
There is the conundrum. Good teachers are rare. Teaching in a public school is a shitty job, in terms of pay and respect, and often, working conditions. As a teacher everybody is your boss. In many places the promise of job security is all the public school system has to offer prospective teachers.
I seem to recall that a very large proportion of teachers quit after five years.
I do know that the myth of teaching being an easy gig is just that - a myth, at least for the first few years. Add the homework grading and the daily mandatory extra duties and almost mandatory daily meetings before/after school and you work much more than 8 hours a day. Mandatory continuing education then tends to kill much the ‘long vacation’.
| 375 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:20:18pm |
re: #360 MurphysMom
As I said, maybe defensiveness is in the eye of the beholder. I’ve only seen Matthews a few times, so maybe what seems to me to be defensive and pouty is just his natural demeanor.
His question to Bachman about her wanting to investigate people for “un-American” activities was a good one. But it was one she obviously had no interest in answering, either time he asked. And his questions were respectful - right up until the sign showed up in the background. I think the sign was in bad taste, but I think he let it get under his skin and he showed it with the snarky “are you hypnotized” remark.
He should have left it with her non-answers. His invitation to come on the show and actually answer the question someday would have been a reasonable end to the interview. I think a journalist who wants to be taken seriously should treat the people he’s interviewing that way. He should give his audience enough credit to assume they can judge whether or not the person he’s interviewing should be taken seriously, and that they don’t need him to lead them down that path.
Plus, he does his own career a disservice - if he plays it that she’s a nitwit and beneath him, what does that say for his professional standing that he’s the one stuck interviewing her.
Your whole spiel is so verbatim criticism of the the right wing. Lamestream media et al. Critique a Fox commentator the same & I’ll take you seriously.
| 376 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:20:23pm |
re: #372 researchok
The winning candidates and their supporters believe the existing system of bus based blending decreases the quality of their schools by bringing poorer students to the schools in an effort to have uniform ratios of free and reduced lunch students across the system.
That is some of the meanest, stupidest, pettiest shit i have ever heard of in my life.
| 377 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:20:25pm |
re: #368 albusteve
bring back corporate punishment…beat ‘em into submission…
problem solved
Who’s going to watch the kids while we’re beating teachers into submission?
| 378 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:20:33pm |
Joint Statement Following the Soviet-United States Summit Meeting in Moscow
June 1, 1988
In accordance with the understanding reached during the U.S.-Soviet summit meeting in Geneva in November 1985, and confirmed at the Washington summit in December 1987, Ronald W. Reagan, President of the United States of America, and Mikhail S. Gorbachev, General Secretary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union, met in Moscow May 29 - June 2, 1988.
[…]
Global Climate and Environmental Change Initiative
The two leaders expressed their satisfaction with activities since the Washington summit in expanding cooperation with respect to global climate and environmental change, including in areas of mutual concern relating to environmental protection, such as protection and conservation of stratospheric ozone and a possible global warming trend. They emphasized their desire to make more active use of the unique opportunities afforded by the space programs of the two countries to conduct global monitoring of the environment and the ecology of the Earth’s land, oceans and atmosphere. They underscored the need to continue to promote both bilateral and multilateral cooperation in this important area in the future.
| 379 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:20:53pm |
re: #361 MinisterO
re: #312 Obdicut
There is the conundrum. Good teachers are rare. Teaching in a public school is a shitty job, in terms of pay and respect, and often, working conditions. As a teacher everybody is your boss. In many places the promise of job security is all the public school system has to offer prospective teachers.
Good teachers are not rare. That mindset is the problem.
| 380 |
MurphysMom Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:21:06pm |
re: #365 tradewind
As I remember, the “leg tingle” remark came after the “are you hypnotized” question, which came after the “leg tingle” sign. I think the sign was the tingle that broke the interviewer’s leg.
| 381 |
TedStriker Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:21:08pm |
re: #233 PT Barnum
Best burgers are never made by chains.
I had an amazing burger a couple of weeks ago at a little hole in the wall bar by where I work. I really wish I could have had a cold beer with it, but oh well.
For a chain, Five Guys is fantastic…and the fries are fresh, hand-cut, and delicious.
| 382 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:21:36pm |
re: #377 Decatur Deb
Who’s going to watch the kids while we’re beating teachers into submission?
the kids administer the beatings….doh!
| 383 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:21:50pm |
re: #373 alexknyc
I work with a Learning Disabled population. I take borderline kids and get as many as I can through the Regents Exam to get a high school diploma. I get roughly 80% of them through with an average grade around 75.
Another teacher I work with gets the class with the 120-150 IQs. He has a 100% passing rate and an average score in the 90s.
Incentives and merit pay would reward him, not me. His pass rate is higher and his average score is much better. Why would I want to continue working with the LD population if there are incentives and merit pay in the balance?
uhhh you are familiar with marking on a curve? no?
| 384 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:21:57pm |
re: #364 tradewind
Well, it’s a start.
And the Rangel and Waters trials will be starting soon.
obsession
| 385 |
Joanne Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:23:00pm |
re: #340 Stanley Sea
The most self-unaware person I’ve ever seen. She’s spending way too much time in the Fox lair. Perhaps if she was able to manage anything but the softest of softball “interviews” she might understand.
Nah.
| 386 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:23:07pm |
re: #377 Decatur Deb
Who’s going to watch the kids while we’re beating teachers into submission?
/no, no we let the kids beat them… 2 birds one stone.
| 387 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:23:08pm |
re: #376 Obdicut
That is some of the meanest, stupidest, pettiest shit i have ever heard of in my life.
See what I mean? There is a real outrage and no one on the national stage has anything to say.
| 388 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:23:08pm |
re: #374 kirkspencer
In full disclosure, both my parents are university professors. My mother teaches— about to retire— at RIC, and has for years. RIC is Rhode Island College, a smallish state college. She basically teaches remedial high school English to most of the kids in her freshman class.
My dad has taught at UCONN for years as well. They are both amazing, excellent teachers, and they both worked, and work their asses off. And without tenure, my dad would have gotten fired for being a troublemaker— the main trouble he did talk loudly and frequently about how building a new stadium was really irresponsible when the student housing was in such dire and pathetic shape. His students couldn’t study because of terrible conditions in the dorms, sometimes, but UCONN considered the money better spent on a huge new sports complex.
So I do have a personal interest in teachers being protected from firing. It works both ways. It’s hard to fire the bad ones. It’s hard to fire the good ones.
| 389 |
palomino Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:23:13pm |
re: #340 Stanley Sea
Fucking prepare yourself. As always with Sister Sarah’s verbatim comments, it’s best to read them out loud.
Entertainment Tonight - the perfect stepping stone for the GOP’s next nominee (h/t to albusteve)
What “founding mothers” is she talking about? Betsy Ross? Not many women had a chance to be founding mothers because they were essentially second class citizens at the time. But it’s a clever rhetorical ruse, kinda like mama grizzlies.
| 390 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:23:20pm |
re: #374 kirkspencer
There are only three things about being a teacher that are easy:
- June
- July
- August
Other than that, the job is rough.
| 391 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:23:26pm |
re: #160 engineer dog
You might look a little exhausted too if you’d just dodged the Pelosi Death Ray… she was targeted for destruction by madame speaker herself.
| 392 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:23:54pm |
re: #379 Stanley Sea
Good teachers who are respected and valued are rare. How about that.
| 393 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:24:01pm |
| 394 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:24:35pm |
re: #380 MurphysMom
As I remember, the “leg tingle” remark came after the “are you hypnotized” question, which came after the “leg tingle” sign. I think the sign was the tingle that broke the interviewer’s leg.
Which does little to distract one from the fact that Bachmann is bug-fuckin’-nuts stupid.
| 395 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:24:41pm |
Letter to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the Senate Transmitting the Fiscal Year 1990 Budget
January 9, 1989
To the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the Senate:
Eight years ago many in this country were concerned about the future of our economy, our government and, indeed, the Nation itself. Unemployment was high and rising. Inflation and interest rates were reaching record levels. Our Nation’s defense capabilities had been weakened by neglect. The international prestige of the U.S. was at low ebb.
[…]
Because changes in the earth’s natural systems can have tremendous economic and social effects, global climate change is becoming a critical concern. Our ability to understand and predict these changes is currently limited, and a better understanding is essential for developing policies. The budget proposes a coordinated and effective Federal research program on global change. This budget is accompanied by a report by the Committee on Earth Sciences that describes this program and its strategy.
[…]
Over the past eight years, we Americans have made our world a safer place for freedom because we had the will to reinvigorate our economy, rebuild our defenses, and provide for the less fortunate among us. Together, we achieved a new beginning for our country and prepared the way for the next Administration to build on our accomplishments.
Ronald Reagan
January 9, 1989
| 396 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:25:41pm |
re: #383 brookly red
uhhh you are familiar with marking on a curve? no?
I sure am but the Regents is already curved (which is another issue for another day).
What kind of mathematical formula do you think the State of New York will come up with? It’s test scores and passing rates all around. Why would this be different?
| 397 |
MinisterO Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:25:53pm |
re: #379 Stanley Sea
Good teachers are not rare. That mindset is the problem.
I disagree. I tried teaching. I was part of a class of about 30 prospective teachers. I, and pretty much all of them, were awful. The simple fact is that most people are very bad at explaining things.
| 398 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:26:34pm |
re: #387 researchok
See what I mean? There is a real outrage and no one on the national stage has anything to say.
I see that it’s a real outrage. I fail to see how it leads you to the conclusion that vouchers are the solution.
| 399 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:26:58pm |
re: #360 MurphysMom
i was happy that matthews was rude to her. i get tired of watching newspeople ask politicians questions based on facts and logic and getting a bunch of carefully prepared lying rhetoric as an answer
clearly, newpeople are held to a considerably higher standard of accountability than any politician. where’s that at, eh?
| 400 |
dmon Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:27:00pm |
My city was one of the first to embrace charter schools, I was all for the idea, it gave parents a choice, a few of them worked out well, others were closed down due to mishandling of funds or the kids not testing well, its been a mixed bag, on a sample of one city, privatizing hasnt been the answer to education woes
| 401 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:27:06pm |
re: #380 MurphysMom
It was illustrative that out of the three main cable news networks, CNN and Fox both had diverse POVs represented in their panels, while MSNBC clung to the conservative-free- mode.
They’re gonna have to bend over backwards to lean forward at this rate.
| 402 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:28:03pm |
re: #391 tradewind
You might look a little exhausted too if you’d just dodged the Pelosi Death Ray… she was targeted for destruction by madame speaker herself.
well I know a thing or two about death rays… and the first rule (after always assume its loaded) is never employ it in an environment where a mirror may be present…
| 403 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:28:06pm |
re: #394 Slumbering Behemoth
Yet somehow clever enough to elude Pelosi’s arrows.
They really wanted her gone.
| 404 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:28:19pm |
re: #395 Gus 802
Letter to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President of the Senate Transmitting the Fiscal Year 1990 Budget
January 9, 1989
Same letter also found here: [Link: www.presidency.ucsb.edu…]
| 405 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:28:32pm |
re: #399 engineer dog
I don’t even think he was being that rude to her. I think she was being quite rude to him.
| 406 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:28:49pm |
re: #402 brookly red
I don’t think Nancy’s reflection actually appears.////
| 408 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:29:42pm |
re: #335 Charles
By the way, I keep meaning to urge everyone who posts to LGF Pages, to set your personal Pages URL as your ‘Homepage’ in your Account. Then it will automatically be linked to your username when you post a comment.
For example, LVQ’s personal URL is:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
Then if someone wants to see your Pages, they can just click on your name in any comment.
Done!
| 409 |
kirkspencer Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:30:14pm |
re: #383 brookly red
uhhh you are familiar with marking on a curve? no?
I’m sure he is, but read the evaluation proposals that you see submitted and it’s apparent those people aren’t. For example there’s this from Georgia’s SB521:
(c)(1) No later than July 1, 2011, the State Board of Education, in consultation with the Office of Student Achievement, shall establish state-wide common evaluation instruments that take student achievement into consideration when assessing teachers, assistant principals, and principals. The state board may take into consideration one or more of the factors enumerated in paragraph (2) of subsection (b) of this Code section and may consider any other factors such as peer review, student academic growth as defined by the State Board of Education, and parental input that it deems relevant, when establishing the evaluation instruments.
(2) This subsection shall apply to performance evaluations conducted for teachers, assistant principals, and principals by a local unit of administration on and after July 1, 2011.”
Subsection b para 2 does not grant anything about the issue alexknyc mentioned - no curve, in other words.
| 410 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:30:23pm |
re: #392 Obdicut
Good teachers who are respected and valued are rare. How about that.
“we don’t need no thought control!”
| 411 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:30:47pm |
re: #378 Gus 802
Joint Statement Following the Soviet-United States Summit Meeting in Moscow
June 1, 1988
Yeah Even St. Thatcher was on board with that. Of course, that was in the days when conservatives tried to keep science and politics separate.
| 412 |
MurphysMom Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:31:01pm |
re: #375 Stanley Sea
Next time there’s a thread discussing an interview on Fox, I’ll try to be as objective.
| 413 |
brookly red Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:31:28pm |
re: #406 tradewind
I don’t think Nancy’s reflection actually appears.///
who cares… she is no longer relevant.
| 414 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:31:48pm |
re: #411 LudwigVanQuixote
It was back when conservatives actually were jockeying around with positioning themselves as the pro-science party, before they figured out the fundies really hated that idea and that they couldn’t do without the fundies anymore.
| 415 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:32:00pm |
re: #397 MinisterO
I disagree. I tried teaching. I was part of a class of about 30 prospective teachers. I, and pretty much all of them, were awful. The simple fact is that most people are very bad at explaining things.
You are shining a beam back to the university Ed programs. Anything this alarming has a lot of distinct failures feeding it. (Besides a certain cultivated negative perception in the public at large.)
| 416 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:32:19pm |
re: #398 Obdicut
I see that it’s a real outrage. I fail to see how it leads you to the conclusion that vouchers are the solution.
Because they are now the easiest way for poor and minority kids to get a decent education.
It was hard enough before but now it has become even more difficult.
Vouchers are not a long term solution- I know that and I understand the public school system cannot and should not be undermined. But until the schools stop sinking, lets give as many kids as we can a fighting chance.
I just wish some lawmaker- anyone, any party- would just run on a single plank- education.
Use LVQ’s ‘manifesto’.
| 417 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:32:21pm |
re: #399 engineer dog
The questioning of Obama was pretty outrightly hostile.
| 418 |
kirkspencer Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:33:07pm |
re: #390 Slumbering Behemoth
There are only three things about being a teacher that are easy:
- June
- July
- AugustOther than that, the job is rough.
If you are in Georgia, school starts at the beginning of August. You’re normally required to be there a week after school ends and a week before it begins, so you lose the first week of June and the last week of July. In the six to seven weeks remaining, you’re required to take continuing education courses.
| 419 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:33:15pm |
re: #416 researchok
Because they are now the easiest way for poor and minority kids to get a decent education.
For all of them? Is there private school capacity for them all?
Do you accept that the anti-intellectual attitude in this country is a large part of why we can’t fix education?
| 420 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:33:23pm |
re: #407 tradewind
Suspicious package found at UK’s Glasgow Airport
Probably just a false alarm.
| 421 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:33:27pm |
re: #97 Killgore Trout
I think politics is going to start to get very interesting now that these people have some power. I’m sure they’ll waste a lot of time with bullshit and investigations. They are going to do as little as possible but they are going to have to actually govern and the Tea Party agenda doesn’t work in the real world.
Make way for gridlock
It’s a very spooky prospect. What will they do? Follow the Tea Party and cause a global financial catastrophe? They are going to have to vote to raise the debt limit. They have to, there’s no choice.
If the “debt limit” is not raised, it becomes an actual limit. What an apocalyptic notion, that the words should mean anything at all!
Taxes would have to be raised, and spending cut, and both, right quick. Hard choices would have to be made right and left. If they could be made in any sort of approximation to good choices, the upshot might not after all be so apocalyptic. After a few weeks of market swooning, people would look around and note that the value of the dollar was stabilizing, the price of gold was down sharply, the price of oil was stabilizing, and that an unsustainable spending trend that had threatened to bankrupt the nation had been broken.
This has been done before. After the hyperinflation of the early 1920s, the Germans introduced the “Rentenmark”, a currency which their central government promised to not inflate. And the skies were about to fall because of a shortage of money when, behold, people suddenly realized that artificial scarcity of money is the only way that money can be of any use as a lubricant of commerce. A genuine scarcity of paper money is of course impossible, and if it’s abundant, everybody has plenty and doesn’t want it, but wants, instead, real goods and services. Which are always and unavoidably scarce.
Gunning the motor up to the red light and then standing on the brakes is no way to drive, and not raising the debt limit is no way to manage a retreat to lower taxes and spending. But we must make that retreat at some point, and in some manner. When we do, it’ll be painful as any drug withdrawal is. That doesn’t negate the necessity of doing so, at some point. Multi-trillion dollar deficits forever, while enjoying a dollar that amounts to more than fancy wallpaper, is not going to happen.
| 422 |
Sionainn Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:33:32pm |
re: #314 researchok
A few things:
…the school districts are talking about or have already shortened the school week because of budgetary restraints.
How is that a union issue? Sounds like a state government issue.
Increased allotments of funds from state government were used to fund teachers pensions as opposed to going to students or education.
States have contractual obligations to teachers. Teachers worked their 30 years per the contract in exchange for certain things such as pensions.
Mediocre teachers are retiring on $85,000 a year pensions.
How do you know they are mediocre? I’d also like to see where teachers are getting $85,000 a year pensions. Oregon uses PERS and it is a percentage of their final yearly salary, not 100% or even close (60% or so comes to mind).
| 423 |
friarstale Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:33:41pm |
re: #407 tradewind
Dammit, just evacuated airport at Glasgow.
what, again?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFPY25-9ydg
| 424 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:33:50pm |
re: #403 tradewind
Yet somehow clever enough to elude Pelosi’s arrows.
They really wanted her gone.
I guess God really does protect children, idiots, fools, and the bug-fuckin’-nuts.
| 425 |
MurphysMom Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:33:51pm |
re: #399 engineer dog
Unfortunately, dog washers are held to a higher standard of accountability than politicians. And are held in greater esteem.
| 426 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:34:38pm |
re: #411 LudwigVanQuixote
Yeah Even St. Thatcher was on board with that. Of course, that was in the days when conservatives tried to keep science and politics separate.
what a shallow statement….you live in a dreamworld of your own making…the current roster of TP’s are hardly conservatives….why don’t you cook up a new name for these posers and show me you’re not as stupid as you sound?
| 427 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:34:54pm |
re: #392 Obdicut
Good teachers who are respected and valued are rare. How about that.
Oh if I could type verbatim my friend (the teacher’s) rant right now.
Basically she’s saying, she has to concern herself with is the kid hungry, can they hear? etc etc etc.
I’m getting this: support our mandated school system to the max, or pay the price.
| 428 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:35:01pm |
re: #411 LudwigVanQuixote
Yeah Even St. Thatcher was on board with that. Of course, that was in the days when conservatives tried to keep science and politics separate.
True. It’s interesting in that if you Google the phrase “Because changes in the earth’s natural systems can have tremendous economic and social effects, global climate change is becoming a critical concern.” you only get two hits. This sentence would be good to bring up to those AGW deniers who also claim to idolize former President Reagan.
| 429 |
MinisterO Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:35:14pm |
re: #392 Obdicut
Good teachers who are respected and valued are rare. How about that.
If we want to fix education in this country we’ll have to change our attitude about it. We respect money and fame and good looks. We respect lawyers and doctors because we know they make good money. University professors? Not so much. We don’t shun those who openly disdain and mock our eggheads. Instead, we make them leaders of House of Representatives.
| 430 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:35:16pm |
re: #419 Obdicut
For all of them? Is there private school capacity for them all?
Do you accept that the anti-intellectual attitude in this country is a large part of why we can’t fix education?
When our town came under desegregation orders they found a lot of private schools almost overnight. It just the incentive, I say…
| 431 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:35:26pm |
re: #426 albusteve
I like “Teahadis”. Really fits them.
| 432 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:36:09pm |
re: #428 Gus 802
True. It’s interesting in that if you Google the phrase “Because changes in the earth’s natural systems can have tremendous economic and social effects, global climate change is becoming a critical concern.” you only get two hits. This sentence would be good to bring up to those AGW deniers who also claim to idolize former President Reagan.
Ronald Reagan would be considered a RINO but most of these Tea Party types.
| 433 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:36:59pm |
re: #397 MinisterO
I disagree. I tried teaching. I was part of a class of about 30 prospective teachers. I, and pretty much all of them, were awful. The simple fact is that most people are very bad at explaining things.
Well, based on your observation, the next generation and the future is fucked.
Solutions not complaints. Damnit. I’m sitting here w/a teach who works her ass off. Solutions?
| 434 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:37:05pm |
re: #421 lostlakehiker
Um, you’re seriously proposing we replace the dollar?
| 435 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:37:12pm |
re: #428 Gus 802
True. It’s interesting in that if you Google the phrase “Because changes in the earth’s natural systems can have tremendous economic and social effects, global climate change is becoming a critical concern.” you only get two hits. This sentence would be good to bring up to those AGW deniers who also claim to idolize former President Reagan.
Or in today sound bite and editing world we can do this:
Changes in the earth’s natural systems can have tremendous economic and social effects, global climate change is becoming a critical concern. - President Ronald W. Reagan.
| 436 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:37:16pm |
re: #417 Obdicut
He’s certainly dished it out to his ’ enemies ’ recently. No reason to think he can’t handle a little bit of less-than-fawning questioning now and then.
| 437 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:37:20pm |
re: #431 Slumbering Behemoth
I like “Teahadis”. Really fits them.
I saw that earlier…it’s nearly perfect
| 438 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:37:35pm |
re: #419 Obdicut
For all of them? Is there private school capacity for them all?
Do you accept that the anti-intellectual attitude in this country is a large part of why we can’t fix education?
No, as many as can be reasonably handled.
As to the answer to your question, I’d have to agree- though that ‘anti schooling’ takes many forms.
I’m telling you, it really is depressing. Even more so is how many poor and minority parents here in Wake County are just resigned to this debacle.
I just don’t understand it.
| 439 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:38:15pm |
re: #428 Gus 802
True. It’s interesting in that if you Google the phrase “Because changes in the earth’s natural systems can have tremendous economic and social effects, global climate change is becoming a critical concern.” you only get two hits. This sentence would be good to bring up to those AGW deniers who also claim to idolize former President Reagan.
Oh yeah - or the tidbit that one of things that caused Thatcher to get rid of Monckton was that she believed the data. It takes real chutzpah to claim a job you were fired from, for being a fruitcake, by Thatcher as a plus when presenting yourself as an “expert” and her former science advisor.
| 440 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:38:50pm |
re: #434 Obdicut
Um, you’re seriously proposing we replace the dollar?
we should consider using marijuana buds as currency
| 441 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:39:00pm |
re: #420 Killgore Trout
We can only hope.
The thing is, AQ has already accomplished half of what they want, which is to freak out segments of the economy with this stuff.
And I’m flying out to PDX tomorrow, following a Delta jet gathering up boxcutters off the floor of an inbound flight. FBI met it at the gate.
We’d better bring our A game every day.
| 442 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:39:27pm |
| 443 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:39:28pm |
re: #438 researchok
No, as many as can be reasonably handled.
How many is that?
Wouldn’t it stand to reason the private school capacity is actually already full with students, or at least very close to full? How would we rapidly expand private schools while maintaining their capacity?
As to the answer to your question, I’d have to agree- though that ‘anti schooling’ takes many forms.
Do you agree that the hostility to scientists and ‘elitists’ that the GOP is making so much political hay of plays a part in this?
| 444 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:39:45pm |
re: #412 MurphysMom
Next time there’s a thread discussing an interview on Fox, I’ll try to be as objective.
Yeah, funny how you’ve missed all of em.
| 445 |
Sionainn Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:40:25pm |
re: #352 allegro
Do you really believe that paying teachers is at the “expense of kids”? You do understand that a pension is part of the salary package, don’t you?
Teachers are supposed to work for free. After all, it’s “for the kids.”
////////////
| 446 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:40:33pm |
re: #431 Slumbering Behemoth
Almost as catchy as ‘Taliban Dan ‘.
(That worked well for him, btw…)
| 447 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:40:50pm |
re: #439 LudwigVanQuixote
Oh yeah - or the tidbit that one of things that caused Thatcher to get rid of Monckton was that she believed the data. It takes real chutzpah to claim a job you were fired from, for being a fruitcake, by Thatcher as a plus when presenting yourself as an “expert” and her former science advisor.
Good one. These two facts will be good political ammo for the promised Congressional witch hunt investigations.
| 448 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:41:03pm |
| 449 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:41:06pm |
re: #443 Obdicut
How many is that?
Wouldn’t it stand to reason the private school capacity is actually already full with students, or at least very close to full? How would we rapidly expand private schools while maintaining their
capacityquality?
| 450 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:43:01pm |
re: #448 albusteve
free range, non union buds
“I’m from WeedWorkers Local 90, and I want to know who harvested your ganja.”
| 451 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:43:22pm |
re: #447 Gus 802
Good one. These two facts will be good political ammo for the promised Congressional witch hunt investigations.
prediction…
there will be no witch hunts
(but Rangle should start making plans)
| 452 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:43:44pm |
Curious Lurker, I noticed that you were following this story…
Sakineh was not executed today
According to reports received today, global protests have managed to prevent the execution of Iran stoning case Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani as of now. However the threat of imminent execution remains.
A global public outcry immediately followed news of her impending execution on 3 November, which was reported on by all major media outlets. Tens of interviews took place with Mina Ahadi, Spokesperson of the International Committees against Stoning and Execution, Iran Solidarity Spokesperson Maryam Namazie, and other campaigners. Millions took immediate action worldwide by sending letters of protest to the Islamic Republic of Iran and other governments calling for immediate action. A number of governments, including the French, Italian, Swedish, and US and the European Parliament and European Union responded at once and demanded that her execution be stopped. There were a number of demonstrations on 2 November, including in Berlin, Brussels, London, Paris, Rome and Washington, DC.
Once again, the Islamic Republic of Iran clearly saw the widespread global reaction to its decision to execute Ms Ashtiani and did not go ahead with her execution.
| 453 |
lostlakehiker Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:44:03pm |
re: #220 researchok
No, although that is a real and different issue.
I’m referring to the refusal to take competency exams and the difficulty in removing bad teachers.
The bottom line is clear- if we were producing good students, parents would not be interested in vouchers ore having their kids attend private schools.
When TX forced the issue and put competency exams in, there were a number of teachers who couldn’t meet the standard, even after multiple tries. The standard? Basically, 8th grade reading and math. All that was needed, all that was required, was that the teacher demonstrate “proficiency” at the 8th grade level.
If you don’t know it, at all, you can’t teach it.
| 454 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:44:16pm |
re: #425 MurphysMom
Unfortunately, dog washers are held to a higher standard of accountability than politicians. And are held in greater esteem.
dogwashers aren’t allowed to get away with arguing that washing is acually bad for dogs since it disincentivizes them from shampooing themselves
| 455 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:44:31pm |
re: #450 Decatur Deb
“I’m from WeedWorkers Local 90, and I want to know who harvested your ganja.”
our buds simply fall off the stalk into these bags…SCIENCE!
| 456 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:44:41pm |
Q. Mr. President, you and your campaign organization have spent a lot of time trying to increase your support among Hispanic voters, yet you continue to support the controversial immigration bill on the Hill now. Will that not hurt you with Hispanic voters in the fall?
The President [Ronald W. Reagan]. Well, I know that there are people — I can understand their concern and their fear. I think that if we take every precaution we can in that immigration bill to make sure that there is not discrimination simply based on the not wanting to bother as to whether an individual is legal or not, I think we can protect against that.
But the simple truth is that we’ve lost control of our own borders, and no nation can do that and survive. And I think the thing that they should be looking at, that should be of the greatest appeal to them is the very generous amnesty, that all the way up to 1982, we’re ready to give those people permanent residency.
| 457 |
kirkspencer Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:44:44pm |
re: #449 Obdicut
Wouldn’t it stand to reason the private school capacity is actually already full with students, or at least very close to full? How would we rapidly expand private schools while maintaining their
capacityquality?
As mentioned up thread, we don’t. Private schools get to refuse applicants.
One other problem vouchers have had in some places is inflation. Several private schools increase their prices to the voucher plus some.
There’s this magical belief that private industry is always better than public. It amazes me how often it’s shown to either be false or due to an uneven playing field (public has requirements that do not apply to private).
| 458 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:45:07pm |
re: #450 Decatur Deb
’ look for the union label, when you are tokin’ a doobie or joint…. remember somewhere, our members growing, their kids are sowing, to help to send the stuff your way’……
| 459 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:45:51pm |
re: #446 tradewind
I don’t know how accurate ‘Taliban Dan’ is, but ‘Teahadi’ is about as dead on accurate as you can get with those backwards, stone aged, far-right reactionaries known as Tea Partiers.
| 460 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:46:15pm |
re: #443 Obdicut
How many is that?
Wouldn’t it stand to reason the private school capacity is actually already full with students, or at least very close to full? How would we rapidly expand private schools while maintaining their capacity?
Do you agree that the hostility to scientists and ‘elitists’ that the GOP is making so much political hay of plays a part in this?
Those schools know their limits. That’s why there are lotteries for available slots.
As for the hostility toward science, the GOP is partially responsible, yes- and the problem is growing, to be sure. But there is also a cultural antipathy towards education in both the poor and minority communities. That has been written about before. How to address that is a whole other conversation, as you can imagine.
| 461 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:46:44pm |
re: #458 tradewind
’ look for the union label, when you are tokin’ a doobie or joint… remember somewhere, our members growing, their kids are sowing, to help to send the stuff your way’…
Gahd. I was in the ILGWU as a kid. Was very glad to learn it meant “Ladies Garment” and not “Ladies Union”.
| 462 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:47:14pm |
re: #459 Slumbering Behemoth
I don’t know how accurate ‘Taliban Dan’ is, but ‘Teahadi’ is about as dead on accurate as you can get with those backwards, stone aged, far-right reactionaries known as Tea Partiers.
and only a fool would collectively label them conservatives
| 464 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:47:59pm |
re: #453 lostlakehiker
When TX forced the issue and put competency exams in, there were a number of teachers who couldn’t meet the standard, even after multiple tries. The standard? Basically, 8th grade reading and math. All that was needed, all that was required, was that the teacher demonstrate “proficiency” at the 8th grade level.
If you don’t know it, at all, you can’t teach it.
THIS!!!!!!!!!!
| 465 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:48:45pm |
re: #450 Decatur Deb
“I’m from WeedWorkers Local 90, and I want to know who harvested your ganja.”
“Good morning sir. I’m with the United State Department of Marijuana (USDM) and I’m here to do a routine taste test of your crop. Here’s my card. May I come in?”
/
| 466 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:49:18pm |
re: #462 albusteve
and only a fool would collectively label them conservatives
A fool, or someone trying to sell something.
| 467 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:49:45pm |
re: #453 lostlakehiker
When TX forced the issue and put competency exams in, there were a number of teachers who couldn’t meet the standard, even after multiple tries. The standard? Basically, 8th grade reading and math. All that was needed, all that was required, was that the teacher demonstrate “proficiency” at the 8th grade level.
If you don’t know it, at all, you can’t teach it.
I would be very interested to see that test.
| 468 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:49:53pm |
re: #453 lostlakehiker
When TX forced the issue and put competency exams in, there were a number of teachers who couldn’t meet the standard, even after multiple tries. The standard? Basically, 8th grade reading and math. All that was needed, all that was required, was that the teacher demonstrate “proficiency” at the 8th grade level.
If you don’t know it, at all, you can’t teach it.
re: #464 alexknyc
THIS!!!
Was it evil unions or jacked-up administrators who hired those useless teachers into their jobs?
| 469 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:50:51pm |
re: #460 researchok
Those schools know their limits. That’s why there are lotteries for available slots.
Exactly. So they’re not a solution, except on an incredibly, incredibly limited scale.
As for the hostility toward science, the GOP is partially responsible, yes- and the problem is growing, to be sure. But there is also a cultural antipathy towards education in both the poor and minority communities. That has been written about before. How to address that is a whole other conversation, as you can imagine.
I’m glad that you can acknowledge that the GOP’s attacks on science are part of the problem.
I think the minority communities’ attitudes towards school reflect the unfulfilled promises of those schools. It is a whole other conversation, but I think it’s one that would be helped first and foremost by an improvement to those schools themselves.
Also see kirkspencer’s posts about schools raising their prices in the face of vouchers; the free market has that aspect to it as well.
| 470 |
MinisterO Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:50:54pm |
re: #433 Stanley Sea
Well, based on your observation, the next generation and the future is fucked.
Solutions not complaints. Damnit. I’m sitting here w/a teach who works her ass off. Solutions?
Mmmm, yeah, well, see uh actually I um only do the complaints.
| 471 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:52:12pm |
re: #462 albusteve
and only a fool would collectively label them conservatives
this rather begs the question of what you think “conservative” principles are and why teabaggers might differ from them sometimes
| 472 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:52:50pm |
re: #344 Gus 802
Gus, very seriously, this is a place where your talents will be especially useful.
I mostly deal with the science of AGW and whacking the denier arguments that get the most press. I know a fair bit of the history of the various players in teh denier movement - but a full look inot the political end of it is not something I have researched enough.
I know for a fact that during the Reagan years, conservatives took the issue seriously enough to at least say something needed to be done by someone some time.
It would be incredibly useful for someone with the web fu you have to start compiling things on that angle. It would also be good to seriously research the Koch brothers, the Heritage foundation and all the connections of the late, unlamented Fred Steitz, including the lunatic Art Robinson from Oregon. It looks like Robinson didn’t win thank God.
You have great skill in turning leaves over. I would beg you to do so!
| 473 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:53:25pm |
re: #471 engineer dog
this rather begs the question of what you think “conservative” principles are and why teabaggers might differ from them sometimes
I see a complete lack of verified persons of Scottish decent in the future….
| 474 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:54:46pm |
re: #468 Decatur Deb
re: #464 alexknyc
Was it evil unions or jacked-up administrators who hired those useless teachers into their jobs?
My guess?
Hired by administrators (or boards of education) and entered the unions, which then fought the exams tooth and nail.
The unions finally gave in exchange for salary and pension bumps for current teachers as well as exempting current teachers from the exams.
How’d I do?
This scenario, by the way, has happened multiple times with public service unions here in NYC— including the police and fire departments, as well as the MTA.
| 475 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:55:10pm |
re: #459 Slumbering Behemoth
Maybe that’ll help save money… they can just shut off the electricity to the House and turn off the water to the restrooms, since the savages will be clueless as how to use them.//
Doesn’t it bother you even a little to so blithely dismiss the fact that nearly every single Democrat who rode in on Obama’s coattails in ‘08 was defeated?? And not by Christine O’ Donnells and Sharon Angles.
These are not stupid people. Then again, they probably would prefer being ‘misunderestimated’ by the big brains who lost…. makes the transition much smoother.
| 476 |
albusteve Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:55:19pm |
re: #471 engineer dog
this rather begs the question of what you think “conservative” principles are and why teabaggers might differ from them sometimes
Jesus has no place inside the Beltway, period…the JBS is no friend of political conservatives…go ahead and steal the definition, it makes no difference to me what the hell people call yourselves…there will be a reckoning
| 477 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:55:36pm |
re: #473 jamesfirecat
I see a complete lack of verified persons of Scottish decent in the future…
heh
| 478 |
Gus Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:56:23pm |
re: #472 LudwigVanQuixote
Gus, very seriously, this is a place where your talents will be especially useful.
I mostly deal with the science of AGW and whacking the denier arguments that get the most press. I know a fair bit of the history of the various players in teh denier movement - but a full look inot the political end of it is not something I have researched enough.
I know for a fact that during the Reagan years, conservatives took the issue seriously enough to at least say something needed to be done by someone some time.
It would be incredibly useful for someone with the web fu you have to start compiling things on that angle. It would also be good to seriously research the Koch brothers, the Heritage foundation and all the connections of the late, unlamented Fred Steitz, including the lunatic Art Robinson from Oregon. It looks like Robinson didn’t win thank God.
You have great skill in turning leaves over. I would beg you to do so!
Thanks Ludwig. I can do so in spurts as I do here. In order for me to do something of greater value I’d have to first get organized and it would require a blog of sorts. There’s only so far one can go without needing a service like Lexus to dig deeper — especially with individuals like the Koch brothers.
| 479 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:57:01pm |
| 480 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:57:13pm |
re: #474 alexknyc
My guess?
Hired by administrators (or boards of education) and entered the unions, which then fought the exams tooth and nail.
The unions finally gave in exchange for salary and pension bumps for current teachers as well as exempting current teachers from the exams.
How’d I do?
This scenario, by the way, has happened multiple times with public service unions here in NYC— including the police and fire departments, as well as the MTA.
Except for the initial hire, that’s pretty much the way it’s s’posed to work. Schools are sacred institutions, but they are also workplaces.
| 481 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:59:11pm |
re: #475 tradewind
Tea Party = Astroturf Dominionism. ‘nuff said.
| 482 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:59:31pm |
re: #478 Gus 802
Thanks Ludwig. I can do so in spurts as I do here. In order for me to do something of greater value I’d have to first get organized and it would require a blog of sorts. There’s only so far one can go without needing a service like Lexus to dig deeper — especially with individuals like the Koch brothers.
True, but even so, they are all over the web, if one looks. I have tried a little and found much myself already. As to old political speeches by Reagan and Thatcher - well look at this, which was turned up after simply typing Thatcher, Global warming into Google…
In fact, it is time for a quick Ludwig page on this.
| 483 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 4:59:41pm |
re: #480 Decatur Deb
Except for the initial hire, that’s pretty much the way it’s s’posed to work. Schools are sacred institutions, but they are also workplaces.
I agree completely.
But, like every other workplace, there has to be a way of weeding out the bad eggs while protecting the good ones.
| 484 |
tradewind Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:02:16pm |
re: #417 Obdicut
He was probably thankful that no one brought up his assurance to Marion Berry that there was no chance of the house flipping like it did in 92-94 because this time , ’ you have me ‘.
| 485 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:02:35pm |
re: #483 alexknyc
I agree completely.
But, like every other workplace, there has to be a way of weeding out the bad eggs while protecting the good ones.
Sure—but if you’ve got good administrators facing down good union reps, the right people wind up on the street. It’s a miracle.
| 486 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:04:32pm |
re: #469 Obdicut
Exactly. So they’re not a solution, except on an incredibly, incredibly limited scale.
I’m glad that you can acknowledge that the GOP’s attacks on science are part of the problem.
I think the minority communities’ attitudes towards school reflect the unfulfilled promises of those schools. It is a whole other conversation, but I think it’s one that would be helped first and foremost by an improvement to those schools themselves.
Also see kirkspencer’s posts about schools raising their prices in the face of vouchers; the free market has that aspect to it as well.
There is no question the GOP is part of the problem now, but their involvement is relatively recent.
The decline of the schools has been decades in the making and the straying from the basics is another component of that failure.
I saw KS’ post and I do agree. Nevertheless, I do believe we ought to give as many kids as we can a chance.
It isn’t as if Harvard Prep is opening their doors. It is the neighborhood private schools that are stepping in. I believe that is why so many parents are comfortable with the idea. They know the schools and they know what they can produce. In my opinion, if a kid and his or her parents wants to be involved and get their kid educated, lets make the effort to help, until we can fix the public schools.
As you noted earlier, there is no single answer.
| 487 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:05:50pm |
re: #485 Decatur Deb
Sure—but if you’ve got good administrators facing down good union reps, the right people wind up on the street. It’s a miracle.
Miracle is right.
Now you’re bringing the administrators’ union and the teachers union officials into it. Some of the people on both sides of that haven’t been in a classroom in 30 years. And getting those two unions to work together? I think Boehner and Obama will go on vacation together first.
| 488 |
dmon Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:06:55pm |
As a public sector employee I can tell you that union protection does have its merits, basically a citizen complains to the media about a percieved slight and the administrations first reaction is to can the employee to avoid the politics…… do unions make it hard to fire bad employees?…absolutely…… do they also protect good employees from the politics…..absolutely
Imagine if a some unscrupulous blogger were to edit a tape to make it look like a person said something she hadnt…..the politicians then over react and fire the employee?……. I know it sounds far fetched, but…….
| 489 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:08:18pm |
Early night tonight. When the dust settles, I want to look at how different political PR firms fared in the vote. Demon Sheep, anyone?
‘Nite, all.
| 490 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:09:23pm |
re: #488 dmon
Absolutely agree.
The issue seems to be how do you continue to protect the good employees while making it easier to lose the bad ones?
I’m not really sure that you can.
| 491 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:11:56pm |
re: #486 researchok
I saw KS’ post and I do agree. Nevertheless, I do believe we ought to give as many kids as we can a chance.
It is my contention that the number of kids that can be served, and served well, by those private schools is very low. In order to handle significantly more,t hey’d have to grow quickly, and that is never a recipe for success in keeping quality.
It seems like even less than a bandaid, to me.
| 492 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:14:06pm |
Americans Bravely Go To Polls Despite Threat Of Electing Congress
WASHINGTON—Despite the very real threat of electing the 112th Congress, millions of courageous Americans lined up at their polling places today and put their right to vote above the awful possibility of sending a politician to represent them in Washington. “I was afraid the moment I showed up to vote, and now that I’ve cast my ballot, I’m even more terrified,” said Kentucky resident Mary Buchanan, who ran to her car and drove home immediately after exercising her constitutional right. “But I knew I had to face my fear and participate in our democracy, even if my actions could lead to electing another U.S. senator.” The day was not without tragedy, however, as the choice between voting for incumbent Harry Reid and challenger Sharron Angle left 20 Americans dead and injured 13 at a Carson City, NV polling place.
| 493 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:16:22pm |
JFK issues all clear after precautionary cargo inspection - NBC New
| 494 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:18:11pm |
re: #491 Obdicut
It is my contention that the number of kids that can be served, and served well, by those private schools is very low. In order to handle significantly more,t hey’d have to grow quickly, and that is never a recipe for success in keeping quality.
It seems like even less than a bandaid, to me.
No argument here.
| 495 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:19:17pm |
I just heard Meg Whitman’s robotic concession speech on a radio show, it was compared to the dude at the end of Plan 9 From Outer Space, “future events such as these…”
| 496 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:19:19pm |
re: #491 Obdicut
It is my contention that the number of kids that can be served, and served well, by those private schools is very low. In order to handle significantly more,t hey’d have to grow quickly, and that is never a recipe for success in keeping quality.
It seems like even less than a bandaid, to me.
Private schools do not regularly accept special needs kids.
| 497 |
kirkspencer Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:19:43pm |
re: #486 researchok
There is no question the GOP is part of the problem now, but their involvement is relatively recent.
The decline of the schools has been decades in the making and the straying from the basics is another component of that failure.
I saw KS’ post and I do agree. Nevertheless, I do believe we ought to give as many kids as we can a chance.
It isn’t as if Harvard Prep is opening their doors. It is the neighborhood private schools that are stepping in. I believe that is why so many parents are comfortable with the idea. They know the schools and they know what they can produce. In my opinion, if a kid and his or her parents wants to be involved and get their kid educated, lets make the effort to help, until we can fix the public schools.
As you noted earlier, there is no single answer.
As I noted earlier, the thing which seems to have the largest impact is parental involvement. The slow cultural shift that’s hurt the issue is the need for families to put both parents to work.
If’n I were trying for a real long-term solution, I’d be pushing for changes that gave parents more home-time first. Thing is that most of these are those DFH things related to reducing the Gini coefficient; of reducing the separation between rich and poor. The grossest (largest scale, not taste) methods include making taxes significantly more progressive and acting to increase the incomes at the bottom. Both have worked in the past, but history tends to be ignored these days.
Now an interesting different solution looks possible as an outgrowth of home school/ distributed learning systems. There’s a system - an outgrowth of Virginia Tech’s math emporium - that’s got excellent potential. Basically, most of the learning that has to be rote anyway is self-paced automated. There are two tiers of assistance. Tier one is online support, and can be requested by the student or auto-flagged by a certain number of failures. Tier two is done by online support who flags a local in-person instructor to meet for one-on-one help with the problem area. It looks like it’ll work for things like basic english and math, just to give two examples.
Thing is, it will still cost money. And since the biggest deal in so many eyes is cost-cutting instead of superior results we’ll probably not see it happen very much.
| 498 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:20:14pm |
re: #496 Stanley Sea
Private schools do not regularly accept special needs kids.
A libertarian’s dream
| 499 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:20:45pm |
re: #496 Stanley Sea
Private schools do not regularly accept special needs kids.
///What? Why is their parents money not as good as anyone elses’?
| 500 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:20:54pm |
re: #497 kirkspencer
Thing is, it will still cost money. And since the biggest deal in so many eyes is cost-cutting instead of superior results we’ll probably not see it happen very much.
RON PAUL!
| 501 |
rwdflynavy Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:21:11pm |
re: #491 Obdicut
It is my contention that the number of kids that can be served, and served well, by those private schools is very low. In order to handle significantly more,t hey’d have to grow quickly, and that is never a recipe for success in keeping quality.It seems like even less than a bandaid, to me.
Hey, it worked great for our public schools!
//
| 502 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:21:34pm |
re: #496 Stanley Sea
Private schools do not regularly accept special needs kids.
Something tells me the diversity of teachers at private schools might be, shall we say, skewed away from diversity in a way public school teachers are not
| 503 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:21:59pm |
re: #374 kirkspencer
I seem to recall that a very large proportion of teachers quit after five years.
I do know that the myth of teaching being an easy gig is just that - a myth, at least for the first few years. Add the homework grading and the daily mandatory extra duties and almost mandatory daily meetings before/after school and you work much more than 8 hours a day. Mandatory continuing education then tends to kill much the ‘long vacation’.
Teaching is absolute hell, and the younger the kids, the harder it is. It is a very, very tough job. There are jobs that require as much of you, and eat up as much of your time with paperwork, yes. They tend to pay a LOT better.
| 504 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:22:53pm |
re: #497 kirkspencer
Now an interesting different solution looks possible as an outgrowth of home school/ distributed learning systems. There’s a system - an outgrowth of Virginia Tech’s math emporium - that’s got excellent potential. Basically, most of the learning that has to be rote anyway is self-paced automated. There are two tiers of assistance. Tier one is online support, and can be requested by the student or auto-flagged by a certain number of failures. Tier two is done by online support who flags a local in-person instructor to meet for one-on-one help with the problem area. It looks like it’ll work for things like basic english and math, just to give two examples.
I’ve been involved with something similar and it has amazing, amazing potential. What I worked on was using neural nets to guide the level 1 support.
| 505 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:23:54pm |
re: #503 SanFranciscoZionist
Teaching is absolute hell, and the younger the kids, the harder it is. It is a very, very tough job. There are jobs that require as much of you, and eat up as much of your time with paperwork, yes. They tend to pay a LOT better.
Almost no one goes into teaching for the money or the vacations.
And those that do tend to burn out VERY quickly.
| 506 |
rwdflynavy Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:23:56pm |
re: #496 Stanley Sea
Private schools do not regularly accept special needs kids.
There are quite a few special needs private schools. We shopped 4 or 5 in Jacksonville for our 12 year old with autism.
| 507 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:24:52pm |
re: #502 WindUpBird
Something tells me the diversity of teachers at private schools might be, shall we say, skewed away from diversity in a way public school teachers are not
.
It’s also subsidized in the public schools. Ask any special needs kid’s parents without Meg Whitman’s dough. Where is the best place to put their kid for school? Public, all the way.
My politico says: wonder what Sister Sarah’s take on this is with her prop special needs child? ugh
| 508 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:25:13pm |
I have a post up with quotes from Reagan, Bush senior and Thatcher supporting action on AGW. Thatcher’s UN address from 1989 is particularly highlighted.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
Excerpt from Thatcher (read more of her address in my post):
What we are now doing to the world, by degrading the land surfaces, by polluting the waters and by adding greenhouse gases to the air at an unprecedented rate - all this is new in the experience of the earth. It is mankind and his activities that are changing the environment of our planet in damaging and dangerous ways.
The result is that change in future is likely to be more fundamental and more widespread than anything we have known hitherto. Change to the sea around us, change to the atmosphere above, leading in turn to change in the world’s climate, which could alter the way we live in the most fundamental way of all. That prospect is a new factor in human affairs. It is comparable in its implications to the discovery of how to split the atom. Indeed, its results could be even more far-reaching.
The evidence is there. The damage is being done. What do we, the international community, do about it?
| 509 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:25:22pm |
re: #416 researchok
Because they are now the easiest way for poor and minority kids to get a decent education.
It was hard enough before but now it has become even more difficult.
Vouchers are not a long term solution- I know that and I understand the public school system cannot and should not be undermined. But until the schools stop sinking, lets give as many kids as we can a fighting chance.
I just wish some lawmaker- anyone, any party- would just run on a single plank- education.
Use LVQ’s ‘manifesto’.
Vouchers are not a long term solution, and frankly, they are barely a solution except in small, specific settings.
They’re inadequate even as a patch.
| 510 |
engineer cat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:25:24pm |
re: #495 WindUpBird
I just heard Meg Whitman’s robotic concession speech on a radio show, it was compared to the dude at the end of Plan 9 From Outer Space, “future events such as these…”
knowing for sure that mega white man and bonfiorina of the jobs won’t be in office is a substantial consolation…
| 511 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:25:27pm |
Dow gains 26 points today. Drudge finally sees good economic news….
Stocks Climb to Highest In Two Years…
He and every other wingnut have been screaming about the end of the world for two years as the dow gained over 30%. It’s funny that after the election all of a sudden a 26 point gain is a big deal.
| 512 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:25:34pm |
re: #496 Stanley Sea
A relative of mine is homeschooling her special needs kid. She is at her wit’s end.
| 513 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:27:05pm |
re: #497 kirkspencer
As I noted earlier, the thing which seems to have the largest impact is parental involvement. The slow cultural shift that’s hurt the issue is the need for families to put both parents to work.
If’n I were trying for a real long-term solution, I’d be pushing for changes that gave parents more home-time first. Thing is that most of these are those DFH things related to reducing the Gini coefficient; of reducing the separation between rich and poor. The grossest (largest scale, not taste) methods include making taxes significantly more progressive and acting to increase the incomes at the bottom. Both have worked in the past, but history tends to be ignored these days.
Now an interesting different solution looks possible as an outgrowth of home school/ distributed learning systems. There’s a system - an outgrowth of Virginia Tech’s math emporium - that’s got excellent potential. Basically, most of the learning that has to be rote anyway is self-paced automated. There are two tiers of assistance. Tier one is online support, and can be requested by the student or auto-flagged by a certain number of failures. Tier two is done by online support who flags a local in-person instructor to meet for one-on-one help with the problem area. It looks like it’ll work for things like basic english and math, just to give two examples.
Thing is, it will still cost money. And since the biggest deal in so many eyes is cost-cutting instead of superior results we’ll probably not see it happen very much.
Lots to digest here.
Starting with money, that has never been the problem. We have thrown money at the schools for decades with only more decline to show for it.
The other issues you raise are far more interesting.
I absolutely agree that parental involvement is a key issue. Historically, we never had to give parents ‘time off’ to deal with school involvement. That said, if that is what it takes, I’m for it. I’ll put the kids first every time.
I like what you have to say about VA Tech’s math program. I don’t know a damn thing about it but if it works as advertised, I can see School Districts across the country putting that in every home with school age kids in addition to math taught in schools.
What do you think of community based tutor/mentoring programs? As well, what do think of online school/homework help tied to school districts curriculum?
| 514 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:27:18pm |
re: #419 Obdicut
For all of them? Is there private school capacity for them all?
Do you accept that the anti-intellectual attitude in this country is a large part of why we can’t fix education?
Are there private schools that can help all of them get success? I used to work at a charter school. When they opened, the plan was to have a hugely academic program which would enroll all the kids from the harsh neighborhoods in the Richmond’s Iron Triangle.
They ended up kicking all those kids out, back to the public schools, because what they were doing didn’t work, and ended up with some middle-class kids whose parents thought they were too delicate for public school.
Boy, we did the Lord’s fucking work at that place.
| 515 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:27:33pm |
re: #416 researchok
I am utterly opposed to school voucher programs for the many reasons I have enumerated. Please do not link any “manifesto” of mine to supporting them.
| 516 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:28:09pm |
| 517 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:28:23pm |
re: #511 Killgore Trout
Dow gains 26 points today. Drudge finally sees good economic news…
He and every other wingnut have been screaming about the end of the world for two years as the dow gained over 30%. It’s funny that after the election all of a sudden a 26 point gain is a big deal.
Not funny at all. It is basic dishonest political propaganda from hacks who couldn’t tell the truth if there were a gun pointed at their heads.
| 518 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:28:43pm |
re: #509 SanFranciscoZionist
Vouchers are not a long term solution, and frankly, they are barely a solution except in small, specific settings.
They’re inadequate even as a patch.
I don’t disagree, in principle. I just believe that every little bit counts.
I see it in communities with voucher lotteries. The parents are desperate.
What do you make of DC’s school efforts?
| 519 |
rwdflynavy Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:28:44pm |
re: #512 Slumbering Behemoth
A relative of mine is homeschooling her special needs kid. She is at her wit’s end.
Florida has a scholarship program for special needs kids to attend a private school at virtually no charge.
[Link: www.floridaschoolchoice.org…]
| 520 |
MurphysMom Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:28:50pm |
re: #444 Stanley Sea
I registered last evening. I apologize if I’ve missed the chance to contribute to a Fox interview thread, and thereby earn the right to be taken seriously by you. Til the opportunity arises to win your approval, I’ll try my best to … soldier on.
| 521 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:29:10pm |
| 522 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:29:23pm |
| 523 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:30:08pm |
re: #515 LudwigVanQuixote
I am utterly opposed to school voucher programs for the many reasons I have enumerated. Please do not link any “manifesto” of mine to supporting them.
So how you deal with parents who are desperate for the opportunity to send their kids to private schools?
| 524 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:30:24pm |
re: #496 Stanley Sea
Private schools do not regularly accept special needs kids.
Catholic schools do, but have no resources to help them.
| 525 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:30:34pm |
re: #522 SanFranciscoZionist
And were they kept on because ‘they kept such good order’ in the classroom? I could tell you some tales…
I find that the best way to keep order in the classroom is to actually engage the kids with the subject matter.
| 526 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:30:36pm |
re: #21 darthstar
Michele Bachmann…America wants to know…Are you…experienced? Have you ever been experienced?
If you can just get your signs together
And then come to The Mall with me
We’ll hold hands and then we’ll
Watch as Glenn cries
On the Jumbo-Tron TV
But first,
Are you delirious?
Have you ever been delirious?
Well…
I have.
I know, I know
You’ll probably scream and cry
At the Democrats and just tell them “no”
But who in your weaselly little world
Are you trying to prove that
Your meds are controlled
and MICHELEPAC’s gold?
Ohh, but are you delirious?
Have you ever been delirious?
We-he-hell!
I have….
Uh, let me prove it to you…
Matthews and Maddow I can, uh, hear in the distance
I think they’re mocking your brain
Maybe now you can’t hear them, but you could
If you just tried once to be sane.
Ohh, but are you delirious?
Have you ever been delirious?
Not necessarily stoned, but pitiful…
| 527 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:32:38pm |
re: #523 researchok
So how you deal with parents who are desperate for the opportunity to send their kids to private schools?
MAKE PROPER PUBLIC SCHOOLS!
| 528 |
prairiefire Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:32:55pm |
re: #520 MurphysMom
I registered last evening. I apologize if I’ve missed the chance to contribute to a Fox interview thread, and thereby earn the right to be taken seriously by you. Til the opportunity arises to win your approval, I’ll try my best to … soldier on.
Word. -14 karma. Soldier on, soldier.
| 529 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:32:55pm |
re: #525 alexknyc
I find that the best way to keep order in the classroom is to actually engage the kids with the subject matter.
I think you missed my point. Completely.
| 530 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:33:13pm |
re: #527 LudwigVanQuixote
MAKE PROPER PUBLIC SCHOOLS!
//Typical liberal wanting to solve all problems by throwing more money at it….
| 531 |
researchok Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:33:23pm |
| 532 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:33:37pm |
re: #529 SanFranciscoZionist
I think you missed my point. Completely.
I got your point. I’ve seen some things too.
| 533 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:34:01pm |
re: #528 prairiefire
Word. -14 karma. Soldier on, soldier.
Clearly she had some trouble getting out of the egg…
But she didn’t crash and burn so it will be interesting to see what the future holds…
| 534 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:34:35pm |
re: #523 researchok
So how you deal with parents who are desperate for the opportunity to send their kids to private schools?
I find it odd that they find such support among people who generally do not think the poor are owed the same things as the rich.
I get why parents want voucher programs. They want a chance to get THEIR kid someplace better. I can’t fault it. But I also can’t see a future where there isn’t a bigger and worse problem coming down the road if we treat vouchers as anything but a small trick in a big back of tricks.
We have to fix the public schools, or we are fucked.
| 535 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:36:08pm |
re: #533 jamesfirecat
I predict pretzel logic obfuscation running defense for abject goobers like Bachmann.
| 536 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:37:05pm |
re: #532 alexknyc
I got your point. I’ve seen some things too.
I got kids in my ninth grade classroom at the charter school who didn’t know what a fucking noun was. They were coming from a—-hey—-charter school with a very good reputation.
When I talked to my principal, who used to work there, he said that yes, there had been some concern that she wasn’t doing much grammar, and mostly had the kids read books and write reports about them, “but she’s an EXCELLENT teacher. You can hear a pin drop in her room.”
That is how people who can’t do eighth grade math last year in, year out. Not because of the unions. Because administrators will keep someone like that on and hold them up as a role model, because you can hear a pin drop in their classrooms, and the children love them.
| 537 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:37:17pm |
re: #535 Slumbering Behemoth
I predict pretzel logic obfuscation running defense for abject goobers like Bachmann.
Maybe she has good points when she isn’t discussing the mainstream media…
We’ll probably find out come the next thread….
| 538 |
prairiefire Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:37:30pm |
We moved to our “white flight” neighborhood specifically for the good schools. When folks are young in KC, they live downtown. When they get married and have kids, they move to the suburbs.
KC has closed many schools and has a new (again x12) Superintendent. Hopefully, they can improve. There is a lot of neighborhood activism to try to make this happen.
| 539 |
Ojoe Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:38:47pm |
Look now, it will change quickly.
Jerry Brown is governor over those canyons too,
| 540 |
prairiefire Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:40:13pm |
re: #537 jamesfirecat
Maybe she has good points when she isn’t discussing the mainstream media…
We’ll probably find out come the next thread…
I remember when you arrived. *scratches JFC’s chin*
When your start up hits it big, let me know if you need Mid West sales representation.
| 541 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:41:04pm |
| 542 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:41:30pm |
re: #512 Slumbering Behemoth
A relative of mine is homeschooling her special needs kid. She is at her wit’s end.
My friend is so dedicated it blows my mind. I have .0008 the dedication to my job. She’s paid less and has the authorities over her ass every step of the way.
That’s all I’m getting out of this.
Don’t diss the teachers.
| 543 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:41:38pm |
| 544 |
Ojoe Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:41:40pm |
re: #536 SanFranciscoZionist
I recall an old Gary Larson cartoon, “Pirate School,” where they were diagramming sentences on the blackboard & one of the sentences was “I will keelhaul him.”
I think the teacher had a peg leg.
Arrrrrrr!
| 545 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:41:58pm |
re: #540 prairiefire
I remember when you arrived. *scratches JFC’s chin*
When your start up hits it big, let me know if you need Mid West sales representation.
Thanks, today we had a meeting about signing Shaq for endorsement….
His agent was evidently yanking our chain with the version of the deal he suggested we take, but after having our guy talk with Shaq personally we’re now giving that guy from both sides, so something interesting may happen contract wise in the next few weeks….
| 546 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:42:01pm |
| 548 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:42:44pm |
re: #536 SanFranciscoZionist
I got kids in my ninth grade classroom at the charter school who didn’t know what a fucking noun was. They were coming from a—-hey—-charter school with a very good reputation.
When I talked to my principal, who used to work there, he said that yes, there had been some concern that she wasn’t doing much grammar, and mostly had the kids read books and write reports about them, “but she’s an EXCELLENT teacher. You can hear a pin drop in her room.”
That is how people who can’t do eighth grade math last year in, year out. Not because of the unions. Because administrators will keep someone like that on and hold them up as a role model, because you can hear a pin drop in their classrooms, and the children love them.
I hear you.
I have ninth grade Algebra students who can’t add or subtract fractions, ninth and tenth grade World History students who don’t realize the Romans didn’t have fighter jets and eleventh grade American History students who’ve never read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.
But their previous teachers are tenured and get good performance evaluations. Frankly, it’s a disgrace.
| 549 |
dmon Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:43:18pm |
One of our city high schools appointed a principle then gave him total control, he shipped out the troublemakers, the man actually blew his whistle during a basketball game, walked out on the court and escorted off a kid whos grades dropped too low to be eligible, the kids love him, the teachers love him and the school is like a completely diffferent place. The question then becomes, did that school previously suck because of the union or he administration. His goal is a 3.0 average.
| 550 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:44:02pm |
re: #541 Obdicut
…
You think Jerry Brown is going to change the sunset?
No, but he might bring back the Dead Kennedys.
/
| 551 |
Ojoe Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:44:14pm |
| 552 |
MurphysMom Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:46:08pm |
re: #528 prairiefire
Yeah. I figured karma would be bad. I’ve raised teenagers, so I try to keep my eye-rolling to myself. Sometimes, though, it makes its way into print. Have to remember not to take the bait.
| 554 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:47:39pm |
re: #552 MurphysMom
Yeah. I figured karma would be bad. I’ve raised teenagers, so I try to keep my eye-rolling to myself. Sometimes, though, it makes its way into print. Have to remember not to take the bait.
Have anything interesting to say upthread?
| 555 |
Ojoe Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:48:27pm |
re: #520 MurphysMom
I registered last evening. I apologize if I’ve missed the chance to contribute to a Fox interview thread, and thereby earn the right to be taken seriously by you. Til the opportunity arises to win your approval, I’ll try my best to … soldier on.
To hell with approval on this blog.
Keep your eyes open, think, & then say what you think.
| 556 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:50:48pm |
re: #527 LudwigVanQuixote
MAKE PROPER PUBLIC SCHOOLS!
Can’t do that with no $ allocated. GOP = no money to schoolsre: #536 SanFranciscoZionist
I got kids in my ninth grade classroom at the charter school who didn’t know what a fucking noun was. They were coming from a—-hey—-charter school with a very good reputation.
When I talked to my principal, who used to work there, he said that yes, there had been some concern that she wasn’t doing much grammar, and mostly had the kids read books and write reports about them, “but she’s an EXCELLENT teacher. You can hear a pin drop in her room.”
That is how people who can’t do eighth grade math last year in, year out. Not because of the unions. Because administrators will keep someone like that on and hold them up as a role model, because you can hear a pin drop in their classrooms, and the children love them.
If my friend the special ed teacher has the TIME, I am asking her to register and contribute. You both could again attempt to educate the regular people to what’s really happening. Not just the idiot politician’s sound bites - those sound bites have made experts on education out of the regular joe’s
| 557 |
Sionainn Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:53:29pm |
re: #548 alexknyc
I hear you.
I have ninth grade Algebra students who can’t add or subtract fractions, ninth and tenth grade World History students who don’t realize the Romans didn’t have fighter jets and eleventh grade American History students who’ve never read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.
But their previous teachers are tenured and get good performance evaluations. Frankly, it’s a disgrace.
How much of that is a product of poor teachers or could it be that the students were indeed presented the material and didn’t bother to learn it?
| 558 |
Ojoe Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:53:38pm |
| 559 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:54:37pm |
re: #545 jamesfirecat
Thanks, today we had a meeting about signing Shaq for endorsement…
His agent was evidently yanking our chain with the version of the deal he suggested we take, but after having our guy talk with Shaq personally we’re now giving that guy from both sides, so something interesting may happen contract wise in the next few weeks…
As in Shaquille O’Neil?
Sorry, not following.
I love Shaq, the Laker.
| 560 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:54:48pm |
re: #557 Sionainn
How much of that is a product of poor teachers or could it be that the students were indeed presented the material and didn’t bother to learn it?
In some cases, it’s poor teaching. In other cases, it’s student apathy.
In many cases, it’s both.
| 561 |
Ojoe Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:57:17pm |
re: #560 alexknyc
Some kids come to school without having eaten a proper breakfast, too.
| 563 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:58:12pm |
re: #559 Stanley Sea
As in Shaquille O’Neil?
Sorry, not following.
I love Shaq, the Laker.
Yeah that’s the guy.
We’re setting up something that’ll be like a combination of facebook, twitter, ebay, and paypal all in one (to say the least) so having some big name people using us is a good way to prime the pump…
| 564 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 5:59:32pm |
re: #563 jamesfirecat
James: You are almost certainly not supposed to be discussing that.
| 565 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:01:28pm |
re: #564 Obdicut
James: You are almost certainly not supposed to be discussing that.
Its a fine fine line between creating buzz and diseminating information prohibited by that non-disclosure agreement I signed…
Believe me what I just said is just the tip of the ice berg…
| 566 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:01:46pm |
re: #548 alexknyc
I hear you.
I have ninth grade Algebra students who can’t add or subtract fractions, ninth and tenth grade World History students who don’t realize the Romans didn’t have fighter jets and eleventh grade American History students who’ve never read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.
But their previous teachers are tenured and get good performance evaluations. Frankly, it’s a disgrace.
How exactly do you force the children of broken homes to learn
How does a teacher WILL a child to absorb information when they’re being passed along between feuding parents, ignored entirely to drink or do drugs?
to a T, every single one of my more dirtbaggy, stoner/drunk friends when I was in jr. high and high school, all of them had rough home lifes. One of them was being beaten up by his dad, another was living in a vermin infested apartment with a single father who was in the process of drinking himself to death.
My mother started to become their surrogate parent that made sense, once I became the Drummer To Know in high school, the garage bands practiced at my house, and then my friends would just come by and hang out with my mother, even when I wasn’t there, it wa spretty cool, and taught me a lot about how kids crave stability, and how difficult it is for a kid to function when they don’t feel safe.
| 567 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:02:10pm |
re: #561 Ojoe
Some kids come to school without having eaten a proper breakfast, too.
They sure do.
It’s why I have a supply of dry cereal in my classroom and milk in the teachers room fridge.
| 568 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:02:25pm |
re: #565 jamesfirecat
You can’t create buzz if you’re not allowed to say the name of your company.
| 569 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:02:35pm |
Just my real anecdote about real people to combat researchok’s fishy anecote that sounds less like an anecdote and more like something a private school lobbying group wrote for a mailer.
| 570 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:03:30pm |
re: #536 SanFranciscoZionist
I got kids in my ninth grade classroom at the charter school who didn’t know what a fucking noun was. They were coming from a—-hey—-charter school with a very good reputation.
When I talked to my principal, who used to work there, he said that yes, there had been some concern that she wasn’t doing much grammar, and mostly had the kids read books and write reports about them, “but she’s an EXCELLENT teacher. You can hear a pin drop in her room.”
That is how people who can’t do eighth grade math last year in, year out. Not because of the unions. Because administrators will keep someone like that on and hold them up as a role model, because you can hear a pin drop in their classrooms, and the children love them.
Thank you for this
| 571 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:03:53pm |
re: #566 WindUpBird
How exactly do you force the children of broken homes to learn
How does a teacher WILL a child to absorb information when they’re being passed along between feuding parents, ignored entirely to drink or do drugs?
to a T, every single one of my more dirtbaggy, stoner/drunk friends when I was in jr. high and high school, all of them had rough home lifes. One of them was being beaten up by his dad, another was living in a vermin infested apartment with a single father who was in the process of drinking himself to death.
My mother started to become their surrogate parent that made sense, once I became the Drummer To Know in high school, the garage bands practiced at my house, and then my friends would just come by and hang out with my mother, even when I wasn’t there, it wa spretty cool, and taught me a lot about how kids crave stability, and how difficult it is for a kid to function when they don’t feel safe.
You can’t FORCE any kid to learn.
| 572 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:03:55pm |
re: #568 Obdicut
You can’t create buzz if you’re not allowed to say the name of your company.
I think I am, I’m just not gonna do it.
| 573 |
Usually refered to as anyways Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:04:10pm |
re: #508 LudwigVanQuixote
I have a post up with quotes from Reagan, Bush senior and Thatcher supporting action on AGW. Thatcher’s UN address from 1989 is particularly highlighted.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
Excerpt from Thatcher (read more of her address in my post):
Hi Ludwig
Speaking of Bush quotes, on Iraq
“No-one was more shocked or angry than I was when we didn’t find the weapons,”
“I had a sickening feeling every time I thought about it. I still do.”
George Bush: Decision Points
| 574 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:04:31pm |
re: #551 Ojoe
THAT’S really extreme.
Wow.
Tell you what, you try and sort out some world history, some algebra, some trig proofs, you try and focus on that when you’re getting your teeth loosened at night by your abusive dad
| 575 |
kirkspencer Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:05:09pm |
re: #513 researchok
Lots to digest here.
Starting with money, that has never been the problem. We have thrown money at the schools for decades with only more decline to show for it.
The other issues you raise are far more interesting.
I absolutely agree that parental involvement is a key issue. Historically, we never had to give parents ‘time off’ to deal with school involvement. That said, if that is what it takes, I’m for it. I’ll put the kids first every time.
I like what you have to say about VA Tech’s math program. I don’t know a damn thing about it but if it works as advertised, I can see School Districts across the country putting that in every home with school age kids in addition to math taught in schools.
What do you think of community based tutor/mentoring programs? As well, what do think of online school/homework help tied to school districts curriculum?
No, money HAS been the problem. Now part of it is mis-directed money, but we have rarely thrown “enough” money at schools except in wealthier districts. (Oddly (sarc) it seems that wealthier districts that throw extra money at schools do a little better.) Now, everyone tends to focus on teacher wages, but places money doesn’t happen (enough) is capital maintenance and textbooks/supplies. In my opinion a major mis-direction is school sports. At the local high school the basketball team got new uniforms. The physics class had to share textbooks. The example is not atypical.
As to parents, I did not say give them time off. As the study I linked above first noted and more have confirmed after, a parent who is available for homework as well as volunteering at school tends to correlate to a child with good grades. Unfortunately we’ve … ok. I realize this is slightly sexist but it does the best demonstration. In 1970 only 43% of women were in the civilian labor force. By 2000 it was 60%. It’s declined a bit over 1% since 2000, but that’s as much from the jobless recovery/recessions as from less need for dual income families. We have shifted from one adult family member taking care of hearth to neither adult doing so. If you break it by income you discover it’s worse at or below median income levels. We don’t need to just give a parent time off, we need to let the parent do the important job of being family.
VA Tech’s program is oriented at students at VA Tech. It inspired other programs for distributed learning, which I don’t have at my fingertips. Thing is, they seem to work given two critical provisos: enough money is spent, and they aren’t turned into self-study only programs.
| 576 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:07:46pm |
re: #574 WindUpBird
Tell you what, you try and sort out some world history, some algebra, some trig proofs, you try and focus on that when you’re getting your teeth loosened at night by your abusive dad
I don’t know much about you WUB but this seems to have struck a nerve with you.
| 577 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:07:56pm |
re: #571 alexknyc
You can’t FORCE any kid to learn.
exactly.
But it seems like despite this, it’s the teacher’s fault that they can’t force kids to learn
That the teacher is left holding the bag for things that are 100% out of their control
And the hee hee usual republican droids want to blame it on the unions, or the teachers, or oh man, there’s so many bad teachers! We gotta get rdid of them! it’s the eviul unions! Because it’s always the evil unions.
Somehow a UNION is worse than bad parents.
And then! They have the audacity to claim, behind their anecdotes that “this isn’t political” while their anecdote sets up every single obvious privatize-everything paraboid ant-union GOP meme like dominoes
| 578 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:09:05pm |
re: #552 MurphysMom
Yeah. I figured karma would be bad. I’ve raised teenagers, so I try to keep my eye-rolling to myself. Sometimes, though, it makes its way into print. Have to remember not to take the bait.
Seriously, you are trade’s sock. Even without the ////re: #563 jamesfirecat
Yeah that’s the guy.
We’re setting up something that’ll be like a combination of facebook, twitter, ebay, and paypal all in one (to say the least) so having some big name people using us is a good way to prime the pump…
I follow Shaq on twitter if that helps. He’s a good guy, tho no idea what he supports. Try Tim Tebow too.
| 579 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:09:31pm |
re: #563 jamesfirecat
Yeah that’s the guy.
We’re setting up something that’ll be like a combination of facebook, twitter, ebay, and paypal all in one (to say the least) so having some big name people using us is a good way to prime the pump…
And it’s called “real life!” We’ve developed the technology for you to go into a phtysical building and exchange money for goods and services, delivered to you immediately!
It’s insanely great!
(Sorry james, I just…the joke was right there :D )
| 580 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:10:38pm |
re: #579 WindUpBird
And it’s called “real life!” We’ve developed the technology for you to go into a phtysical building and exchange money for goods and services, delivered to you immediately!
It’s insanely great!
(Sorry james, I just…the joke was right there :D )
Real life, bah!
I long for the future where the worlds comforts can be brought straight to me without ever having to stop commenting, or encountering that wretched curse you call “sunlight”…
| 581 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:12:07pm |
re: #577 WindUpBird
exactly.
But it seems like despite this, it’s the teacher’s fault that they can’t force kids to learn
That the teacher is left holding the bag for things that are 100% out of their control
And the hee hee usual republican droids want to blame it on the unions, or the teachers, or oh man, there’s so many bad teachers! We gotta get rdid of them! it’s the eviul unions! Because it’s always the evil unions.
Somehow a UNION is worse than bad parents.And then! They have the audacity to claim, behind their anecdotes that “this isn’t political” while their anecdote sets up every single obvious privatize-everything paraboid ant-union GOP meme like dominoes
All of that may be true, but there are bad teachers.
And unions do make it hard to fire them.
I don’t have a solution for this but those are facts. They may be facts we can’t do anything about but they are facts.
| 582 |
Stanghazi Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:13:38pm |
re: #573 ozbloke
Hi Ludwig
Speaking of Bush quotes, on Iraq
“No-one was more shocked or angry than I was when we didn’t find the weapons,”
“I had a sickening feeling every time I thought about it. I still do.”George Bush: Decision Points
Ya, and Kanye’s response to Katrina WAS THE WORST THING.
gah, do not get me started with his lying “revelations”
| 583 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:13:44pm |
re: #572 jamesfirecat
I think I am, I’m just not gonna do it.
Just trying to make sure you’re on message.
| 584 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:14:04pm |
re: #581 alexknyc
All of that may be true, but there are bad teachers.
And unions do make it hard to fire them.
I don’t have a solution for this but those are facts. They may be facts we can’t do anything about but they are facts.
Facts would also be figuring out how many bad teachers there are and how frequently Unions get in the way of hiring them…..
You know so we knew if it was a major problem or a minor defect….
| 585 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:14:56pm |
re: #576 alexknyc
I don’t know much about you WUB but this seems to have struck a nerve with you.
Yes. It sure has.
Because I knew kids from bad families, very bad families. Smart kids who were being abused, who were literally saved from becoming a waste by their public school teachers. I was a smart kid who played in a lot of metal bands as a teenager, so basically I was the nerdy gifted student whose friends were all from the Wrong Side of Twon, and they were really awesome kids, who got shitty grades, who didn’t do well in school. Who were brilliant. Who made their own bulletin board systems. Who build computers from scratch. Who could code C++ in high school. But they got shitty grades, and got in trouble a lot, and would be considered bad kids by a lot of people on this blog who ar eintellectually vastly inferior to them.
And why were they bad in school? Why’d they have poor attitudes towards authority? Because they didn’t have any room in their lives for school and they had absentee or abusive parents, and when you’re just trying to keep yourself happy and out of harm’s way, school is MEANINGLESS to you.
I’m sick of the whole demonize the idea of public schools in favor of these closed systems for rich people. Makes me sick
| 586 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:15:06pm |
re: #580 jamesfirecat
Real life, bah!
I long for the future where the worlds comforts can be brought straight to me without ever having to stop commenting, or encountering that wretched curse you call “sunlight”…
heehee :D
| 587 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:16:43pm |
re: #584 jamesfirecat
Facts would also be figuring out how many bad teachers there are and how frequently Unions get in the way of hiring them…
You know so we knew if it was a major problem or a minor defect…
First we would have to define what a “bad” teacher is and how to measure it.
All any of us have here is anecdotal. Like Potter Stewart and pornography, I may not be able to define a “bad” teacher but I know one when I see it.
| 588 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:17:20pm |
re: #581 alexknyc
All of that may be true, but there are bad teachers.
And unions do make it hard to fire them.
I don’t have a solution for this but those are facts. They may be facts we can’t do anything about but they are facts.
Unions and bad teachers are not the problem, and vouchers are like an anti-solution. Vouchers and privatizing schools will basically just make rich people who could already afford private school happier, and it’ll fuck over everyone else.
Halliburtonizing public education, which is what would happen if you pulled massive funding from public education. That doesn’t sound very palatable to me. I prever the army to Blackwater.
| 589 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:19:02pm |
re: #587 alexknyc
First we would have to define what a “bad” teacher is and how to measure it.
All any of us have here is anecdotal. Like Potter Stewart and pornography, I may not be able to define a “bad” teacher but I know one when I see it.
basically, you have nothing but generalized talking points from the GOP boilerplate, got it
All anecodtes are not created equal. Ludwig’s anecodtes and SFZs anecdotes carry more weight because
THEY ARE EDUCATORS.
And they’re of course getting pushback from conservative ideologues who don’t seem to have any experience in the matter of education infrastructure except they raised kids, and they hate unions.
| 590 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:19:49pm |
I trust SFZ’s thoughts on this matter more than anyone else on this blog, just thought I’d make that razor clear
| 592 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:21:51pm |
re: #585 WindUpBird
Yes. It sure has.
Because I knew kids from bad families, very bad families. Smart kids who were being abused, who were literally saved from becoming a waste by their public school teachers. I was a smart kid who played in a lot of metal bands as a teenager, so basically I was the nerdy gifted student whose friends were all from the Wrong Side of Twon, and they were really awesome kids, who got shitty grades, who didn’t do well in school. Who were brilliant. Who made their own bulletin board systems. Who build computers from scratch. Who could code C++ in high school. But they got shitty grades, and got in trouble a lot, and would be considered bad kids by a lot of people on this blog who ar eintellectually vastly inferior to them.
And why were they bad in school? Why’d they have poor attitudes towards authority? Because they didn’t have any room in their lives for school and they had absentee or abusive parents, and when you’re just trying to keep yourself happy and out of harm’s way, school is MEANINGLESS to you.
I’m sick of the whole demonize the idea of public schools in favor of these closed systems for rich people. Makes me sick
Your friends were very lucky to have you and your mom in their lives. They were also very lucky to find teachers (public or not) who helped save them.
Criticism of some teachers does not imply criticism of all teachers. There are excellent teachers everywhere.
But not every teacher is a good teacher. The issue is how do we make it easier to get rid of the bad ones while still protecting the good ones?
I’m not sure that the union can do both. And if they can’t, I’d rather they protected teachers rather than make it easier to fire them.
That’s my horse in this race. I recognize that there are others.
| 593 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:23:13pm |
re: #588 WindUpBird
Unions and bad teachers are not the problem, and vouchers are like an anti-solution. Vouchers and privatizing schools will basically just make rich people who could already afford private school happier, and it’ll fuck over everyone else.
Halliburtonizing public education, which is what would happen if you pulled massive funding from public education. That doesn’t sound very palatable to me. I prever the army to Blackwater.
You may be confusing me with someone else.
I’ve never argued in favor of vouchers, pulling money from education or Halliburtonizing public schools.
I don’t believe in any of that.
| 594 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:25:00pm |
re: #589 WindUpBird
basically, you have nothing but generalized talking points from the GOP boilerplate, got it
All anecodtes are not created equal. Ludwig’s anecodtes and SFZs anecdotes carry more weight because
THEY ARE EDUCATORS.
And they’re of course getting pushback from conservative ideologues who don’t seem to have any experience in the matter of education infrastructure except they raised kids, and they hate unions.
I’ve been a teacher for 25 years. I’d like to think I’m an educator, but maybe I’m deluded.
Where do you get the idea I’m some kind of conservative ideologue?
I really think you have me mixed up with someone else here.
| 595 |
MinisterO Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:31:42pm |
My main objection to private schools and vouchers and magnet schools is the brain drain on the regular public system that *most* kids still have to use. Taking away the best students and the best teachers reduces the social and economic mobility of the rest of the kids later in life.
It’s one of the insidious ways that an aristocracy becomes entrenched.
| 596 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:35:21pm |
re: #595 MinisterO
It’s one of the insidious ways that an aristocracy becomes entrenched.
It’s one of the insidious ways that an aristocracy becomes entrenched.
It’s one of the insidious ways that an aristocracy becomes entrenched.
It’s one of the insidious ways that an aristocracy becomes entrenched.
It’s one of the insidious ways that an aristocracy becomes entrenched.
I CANNOT AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT MORE, UPDING
| 597 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:38:05pm |
| 598 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:47:49pm |
re: #594 alexknyc
I’ve been a teacher for 25 years. I’d like to think I’m an educator, but maybe I’m deluded.
Where do you get the idea I’m some kind of conservative ideologue?
I really think you have me mixed up with someone else here.
basically because of this statement:
I hear you.
I have ninth grade Algebra students who can’t add or subtract fractions, ninth and tenth grade World History students who don’t realize the Romans didn’t have fighter jets and eleventh grade American History students who’ve never read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution.
But their previous teachers are tenured and get good performance evaluations. Frankly, it’s a disgrace.
Which gave me the impression that you don’t seem to understand that it’s not actually the teacher’s fault if a kid that is in a bad point in their lives hasn’t read the declaration of indepdendence. That that doesn’t matter to a kid if they have a poor home life.
It basically sounds like talking points straight up to me, so I just assumed you were doing the same thing as researchok and whoever else on this board who just reflexively blames teachers for performance across the board and thinks that the problem lies more or lesscompletely with teachers and unions.
So if you’re a teacher, maybe you just haven’t seen it from the angle of knowing all the incredibly smart kids who were called bad kids because they didn’t prioritize school. None of their teachers did anything wrong, they were simply not learning for other reasons.
That’s the disgrace. That we have so many wrecked kids with ignorant and abusive families.
I can’t imagine where I’d end up if I was a queer kid with abusive or absentee parents. I certainly wouldn’t have been focusing on school.
I knew a sort of “lost boys” group of kids that I hung out with on BBSes, who were on a bulletin board system I called regularly. One of them was learning assembly code and how to access commodore 64 drives through the serial port to experiment with networking. In high school. With no money. Learning how to do shit that today would earn you 6 figures, and he could do it. Wrote his own BBS system. WROTE HIS OWN! Sound like anyone we know?
And he was a teenager who got drunk, smoked weed, got into fights, mouthed off to teachers, and hung out on this bulletin board system named after one of the worst neighborhoods in South Seattle. Where the lived. This BS was where I hung out, and a bunch of other people like this kid hung out. Smart kids who created almost their own “gang” of nerds, a social support group because their parents were gone, they were bad, they were whatever horror you could imagine.
So the yuk yuk this kid doesn’t know the declartraion of independence shit?
yeah. I knew that kid. I knew a few kids like that.
And you know what?
That kid was FAR smarter than you, or me. The declaration of independence to a kid who’s being abused who’s basically putting all his energy into artistic pursuits or nerd pursuits as escapism? The declaratuon of independence is as meaningless as toilet paper. Staying mentally healthy and avoiding getting beat up is a little more important than that.
| 599 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:53:38pm |
re: #597 Obdicut
Please note:
re: #592 alexknyc
yeah, I see now I’m sorta conflating alex with researchkok, apologies to alex for that
But I despise the notion that teachers can will kids in crisis to just magically become good students who care about abstracts, and that a teacher who sees a kid one hour a day, five days a week, will ever be a match for their parents. Which is what sorta uncorked angrybirdmode.
Oh and I haven’t even gotten into the bullying! Which of course affects grades and school performance. Which was the only time in school where my grades dropped, when I was being messed with in junior high, had to transfer classes to get away from the guy, the whole bit
and then he faceplanted his bike a year later, broke his jaw, had to have it wired shut for a semester, and no longer bullied me, and then my grades improved! memories.
| 600 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 6:54:13pm |
re: #598 WindUpBird
But he wasn’t mocking those kids at all. There’s no ‘yuk yuk’ in his statement at all.
I think you’re reading him completely wrong. As a teacher, he’s saying the previous teachers failed. And sometimes that may be too harsh a judgement, but since it’s his own profession, it’s a standard he’s holding himself to.
I think you’re letting passion for your friends carry you into a strange place in this conversation, where you’re now yelling at a dedicated teacher because he said something that you misinterpreted.
| 601 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:03:44pm |
re: #600 Obdicut
But he wasn’t mocking those kids at all. There’s no ‘yuk yuk’ in his statement at all.
I think you’re reading him completely wrong. As a teacher, he’s saying the previous teachers failed. And sometimes that may be too harsh a judgement, but since it’s his own profession, it’s a standard he’s holding himself to.
I think you’re letting passion for your friends carry you into a strange place in this conversation, where you’re now yelling at a dedicated teacher because he said something that you misinterpreted.
Maybe I am. I’m cooling off. But the yukyuk I spoke of was the “wow, those kids don’t know the romans didn’t have fighter jets” I dunno, that just rubbed me the wrong way, as if a teacher was teaching kids that. “Remember kids, the greeks had teleporters and power armor.” No teacher told a kid that, there is no “disgrace”. Maybe I’m a bit sensitive about this issue and how it ties into my experiences. But agreed, it is in a strange place , and what I’m saying is really more just aimed at the conservative arguments against public education and this meme of there just being all these bad teachers and they must be the problem because they should be able to work miracles.
But yeah, apologies to alex
| 602 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:11:55pm |
re: #601 WindUpBird
Oh, in the romans and fighter jets, I think what you’re overlooking is a lot of kids assume technology has been around forever— when they don’t think it was all invented yesterday. History of technology has to actually get caught. So that’s the spirit I interpreted it in.
Maybe I’m a bit sensitive about this issue and how it ties into my experiences.
I think so too. I think it speaks to the cultural stuff I was talking about; I also think a huge part of the problem is our general societal attitude towards teenagers, how we treat them as potential rapist-murderer-sociopath-punk-useless-fuckers, while demanding they be celibate-generous-honest-obedient-angels.
| 603 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:20:00pm |
re: #601 WindUpBird
Maybe I am. I’m cooling off. But the yukyuk I spoke of was the “wow, those kids don’t know the romans didn’t have fighter jets” I dunno, that just rubbed me the wrong way, as if a teacher was teaching kids that. “Remember kids, the greeks had teleporters and power armor.” No teacher told a kid that, there is no “disgrace”. Maybe I’m a bit sensitive about this issue and how it ties into my experiences. But agreed, it is in a strange place , and what I’m saying is really more just aimed at the conservative arguments against public education and this meme of there just being all these bad teachers and they must be the problem because they should be able to work miracles.
But yeah, apologies to alex
No worries on this end.
Have you ever thought about teaching? Your experiences and passion for kids that others may have misunderstood and given up on would serve you well in a school setting.
| 604 |
alexknyc Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:32:14pm |
re: #602 Obdicut
Oh, in the romans and fighter jets, I think what you’re overlooking is a lot of kids assume technology has been around forever— when they don’t think it was all invented yesterday. History of technology has to actually get caught. So that’s the spirit I interpreted it in.
That’s how I meant it.
If WUB misunderstood, maybe I didn’t make that clear enough.
| 605 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:33:39pm |
re: #603 alexknyc
No worries on this end.
Have you ever thought about teaching? Your experiences and passion for kids that others may have misunderstood and given up on would serve you well in a school setting.
I would only ever be qualified to teach art. I’m too involved with nerd counterculture art for it to really be practical to work with kids in an institutional setting in the classroom, it’d probably take a smart kid with google about ten seconds to dig up something I’ve drawn that I would not want spread around on facebook ;-) It seems honestly terriifying to be a teacher in the internet age, kids are so good at digging stuff up on the internet, you’d have to construct concentric circles of anonyimity to have any kind of internet privacy when you have a classroom
In some ways, I sorta do a little teaching just because there’s a lot of people in my community of artists who are learning and want help learning techniques or learning the right habits for learning how to draw. And then of course, I pester people who do arty things better than me for their help (making costumes that light up, are durable, and are well engineered to stand 110 degree heat is hard) But that’s all like forum posts and redlining (correcting) bad anatomy for online critiques and getting together at conventions to do art demos, it’s not really the same thing.
I’d love to run a figure drawing session, like for a local drawing academy or a free studio session, something without a whole lot of structure. Or lessons, like I took guitar lessons or drum lessons. That would be a thing I would probably at least be mediocre at ;-)
Again, sorry about all that, I’m sorta having a bit of a week and I was already wound up by other posts on this thread and then I just went BLURRRGH
| 607 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:36:58pm |
re: #602 Obdicut
Oh, in the romans and fighter jets, I think what you’re overlooking is a lot of kids assume technology has been around forever— when they don’t think it was all invented yesterday. History of technology has to actually get caught. So that’s the spirit I interpreted it in.
I think so too. I think it speaks to the cultural stuff I was talking about; I also think a huge part of the problem is our general societal attitude towards teenagers, how we treat them as potential rapist-murderer-sociopath-punk-useless-fuckers, while demanding they be celibate-generous-honest-obedient-angels.
yeah, you’re right, reading it that way it makes more sense ;-)
And bolded! That’s a really great way of boiling it down. My parents thankfully did not treat me like that, though they were a little too protective at times. And my mother would give my more scruffy friends respect and would treat them like adults and pester them about giving her their band’s demo cassettes.
The older I get, the less I take that for granted, that she was genuinely involved in our “culture” as kids and cared about it, even when we were big pains in the ass
| 608 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:38:14pm |
| 609 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:39:20pm |
re: #606 Obdicut
Also, finally ordered my Puget Systems system. eee o_o
| 610 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:39:23pm |
re: #573 ozbloke
Hi Ludwig
Speaking of Bush quotes, on Iraq
“No-one was more shocked or angry than I was when we didn’t find the weapons,”
“I had a sickening feeling every time I thought about it. I still do.”George Bush: Decision Points
Great quote.
| 611 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:40:57pm |
re: #556 Stanley Sea
Can’t do that with no $ allocated. GOP = no money to schoolsre: #536 SanFranciscoZionist
If my friend the special ed teacher has the TIME, I am asking her to register and contribute. You both could again attempt to educate the regular people to what’s really happening. Not just the idiot politician’s sound bites - those sound bites have made experts on education out of the regular joe’s
I was pretty clear that we need to pay for it to happen!
| 612 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 7:47:49pm |
re: #611 LudwigVanQuixote
I was pretty clear that we need to pay for it to happen!
Wouldn’t it be cool if we really REALLY emphasized education and institutions of learning, instead of fetishizing the military we fetishized learning stuff and making stuff? and funded it accordingly?
ahh man can dream
| 613 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 3, 2010 8:43:10pm |
re: #602 Obdicut
Oh, in the romans and fighter jets, I think what you’re overlooking is a lot of kids assume technology has been around forever— when they don’t think it was all invented yesterday. History of technology has to actually get caught. So that’s the spirit I interpreted it in.
I think so too. I think it speaks to the cultural stuff I was talking about; I also think a huge part of the problem is our general societal attitude towards teenagers, how we treat them as potential rapist-murderer-sociopath-punk-useless-fuckers, while demanding they be celibate-generous-honest-obedient-angels.
My issue is that kids assume all technology has been around forever, and they also assume that what they believe is true. Teachers are dumbasses.
Just did a project on cave art, and after all the looking at resources, and talking about the culture, a kid draws a guy in a cowboy hat riding a horse. I point out that this society did not ride horses., we’ve talked about how far off domesticating horses is. The kid says, “Yes they did.”
I’ll delete the rest of the conversation. It went about as well as the one with the kid who drew Vikings in an eighteenth century Pirates of the Caribbean galleon with cannon. When told to redo it, and draw one like the ones we had studied in detail he told me I was stupid.
| 614 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Wed, Nov 3, 2010 9:37:33pm |
re: #613 SanFranciscoZionist
My issue is that kids assume all technology has been around forever, and they also assume that what they believe is true. Teachers are dumbasses.
Just did a project on cave art, and after all the looking at resources, and talking about the culture, a kid draws a guy in a cowboy hat riding a horse. I point out that this society did not ride horses., we’ve talked about how far off domesticating horses is. The kid says, “Yes they did.”
I’ll delete the rest of the conversation. It went about as well as the one with the kid who drew Vikings in an eighteenth century Pirates of the Caribbean galleon with cannon. When told to redo it, and draw one like the ones we had studied in detail he told me I was stupid.
That kid has a rich future in the game industry
| 615 |
ClaudeMonet Wed, Nov 3, 2010 11:21:41pm |
re: #42 HappyWarrior
Sure, her and Steve King are going to be happy now that they will have more crazies in their midst in the new Congress.
King had better enjoy it while it lasts. It looks like Iowa will lose one of its five House seats in the upcoming reapportionment, and if we’re fortunate perhaps he’ll be the casualty.
re: #180 brookly red
or enough beer to fill lake Erie…
With all the water pouring into it from Lakes Superior, Huron, and Michigan, the beer would soon be watered down to Budweiser.
| 616 |
ClaudeMonet Wed, Nov 3, 2010 11:45:48pm |
re: #274 LudwigVanQuixote
And I get the results of that system in my classes at university. At this point, I have had over 6,000 students. I will keep my own council as to what is wrong.
“counsel”, not “council”
re: #275 deranged cat
re: #81 wozzablog
i am really curious to see how she votes, or rather how she feels about the GOP. Murkowski was kicked to the curb by the GOP (especially Palin), and the GOP (or certain GOP members) actively tried to sabotage her campaign (with the registration of 150 names, etc). According to 538, she was the 4th most liberal GOP Senator (5th most after Brown).
needless to say, i would be pissed. that is a LOT of betrayal right there. Anybody she’ll become an independent? And on a related note, when she wins… what is she winning as? she wouldnt be a republican, right?
She has already stated that she will caucus with the Republicans. It’s the Joe Lieberman story again, only on the Republican side.
re: #368 albusteve
bring back corporate punishment…beat ‘em into submission…
problem solved
That’s corporal punishment.
BTW—glad to hear your leg is getting better.
| 617 |
ClaudeMonet Wed, Nov 3, 2010 11:53:59pm |
re: #429 MinisterO
If we want to fix education in this country we’ll have to change our attitude about it. We respect money and fame and good looks. We respect lawyers and doctors because we know they make good money. University professors? Not so much. We don’t shun those who openly disdain and mock our eggheads. Instead, we make them leaders of House of Representatives.
Given the teachers at Boehner’s HS (a parochial football academy) and the profs we both had at Xavier University, I can see why he holds “eggheads” in disdain. My HS teachers in the “lowly” public schools were far better. In my case, private college was a snap compared to public high school.
| 618 |
ClaudeMonet Thu, Nov 4, 2010 12:03:01am |
re: #507 Stanley Sea
.
It’s also subsidized in the public schools. Ask any special needs kid’s parents without Meg Whitman’s dough. Where is the best place to put their kid for school? Public, all the way.
My politico says: wonder what Sister Sarah’s take on this is with her prop special needs child? ugh
She’d be totally against it. Until it was time for him to go to school. Then it’s the highest priority for everyone.
Think in terms of the many celebrities who don’t give a shit about a given cause—until it hits close to home. Then they’re retroactive lifelong fanatic supporters.
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