Something beautiful for a Sunday evening: the animated music video for “Sometimes the Stars” by Australian band The Audreys.
Youtube Video1 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:48:24pm |
very tasty....soothing, almost dropped my cocktail
| 2 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:48:47pm |
That initial graphic looks like a still from a Tim Burton movie.
| 3 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:49:51pm |
BTW, after almost 3 years I decided it was time for a new avatar. What does everyone think?
| 4 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:51:03pm |
re: #3 Dark_Falcon
Sure, a change up is good. Do you have something in mind?
| 5 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:51:48pm |
re: #4 Rightwingconspirator
Oh geez your old one is in your post, when I click it I see the new one. Huh. Looks good.
| 6 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:53:59pm |
I donated $100 to the Red Cross today for tsunami relief, and you should donate as much as you can afford too.
[Link: american.redcross.org...]
| 7 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:54:53pm |
re: #3 Dark_Falcon
BTW, after almost 3 years I decided it was time for a new avatar. What does everyone think?
I like my football...honestly I don't pay attention to avatars, but if you like it, it's good
| 8 |
ProGunLiberal Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:56:02pm |
I've wanted to say that I am very pleased with the fact that people at large are beginning to talk Peter King's relationship with the IRA during The Troubles. John Stweart actually mentioned it last week on the Daily Show. I'm hoping King's past is about to bite him.
| 9 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:56:18pm |
Not to get all lecture-y. But Japan's really going to need help after this. We're just starting to understand how huge it is - there are probably going to be tens of thousands dead, and property damage on an unthinkable scale.
I love Japan, and the Japanese people, and my heart goes out to them. I had many Japanese friends growing up in Hawaii, and I lived in Japan for 6 months.
| 10 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:57:56pm |
re: #8 ProLifeLiberal
I've wanted to say that I am very pleased with the fact that people at large are beginning to talk Peter King's relationship with the IRA during The Troubles. John Stewart actually mentioned it last week on the Daily Show. I'm hoping King's past is about to bite him.
I doubt it. He did what many Irish-Americans did at the time. Even during the 1980's, quite a few Irish bars had tip jars "for the lads", and it was known the money was for the IRA.
| 11 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:59:02pm |
re: #9 Charles
Not to get all lecture-y. But Japan's really going to need help after this. We're just starting to understand the scale - there are probably going to be tens of thousands dead, and property damage on an unthinkable scale.
I love Japan, and the Japanese people, and my heart goes out to them. I had many Japanese friends growing up in Hawaii, and I lived in Japan for 6 months.
my sympathies....my own feelings are driven by pictures and vids of the suffering....I gave $40 to the Red Cross, it's all I had....this is an epic tragedy, monumental even....probably the worst in my lifetime
| 12 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Mar 13, 2011 5:59:54pm |
re: #10 Dark_Falcon
I doubt it. He did what many Irish-Americans did at the time. Even during the 1980's, quite a few Irish bars had tip jars "for the lads", and it was known the money was for the IRA.
They're not the ones acting all hypocritical and in power now tho. He was a terrorist sympathizer, let's face it.
| 13 |
Kragar Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:00:19pm |
Still no word from my wife's family. We know their town didn't get hit badly, but power and other services are still out.
| 14 |
Stinky Beaumont Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:03:14pm |
The boss wanted me to let you all know that registration is open.
| 15 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:04:07pm |
This disaster is an important reminder that disasters are not limited to third world nations. Even a modern resilient nation can be rocked on it's heels. Japan will need help. Cash, engineering talent, humanitarian help.
| 16 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:04:35pm |
re: #14 Stinky Beaumont
The boss wanted me to let you all know that registration is open.
wassup Stinky?
been awhile
| 17 |
ProGunLiberal Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:05:26pm |
What was the effect of the Earthquake on Hokkaido? Has anyone heard?
| 18 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:07:20pm |
re: #12 Sergey Romanov
They're not the ones acting all hypocritical and in power now tho. He was a terrorist sympathizer, let's face it.
He was, its a fact. I don't defend his actions, though I will note that many songs sung in Irish clubs, pubs and gatherings still are positive to the IRA. It doesn't justify his actions, but I doubt he thinks he did anything wrong.
| 19 |
Idle Drifter Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:07:40pm |
I can only imagine what's going on at my old duty station at Iwakuni, Japan. 10 years has gone by fast. If the base wasn't hit by the Tsunami the Japanese SAR float planes will be buzzing in and out of there as well as the Air Base being used as a staging area and refueling point.
| 20 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:07:45pm |
I'm seriously thinking of switching to Google Chrome for my default browser. The newest version is really fast.
| 21 |
Idle Drifter Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:13:24pm |
Marines conduct emergency actions in wake of earthquake, tsunami.
Well here's some good news. All personnel accounted for the Marines in Japan and all bases are mobilizing for relief effort.
| 22 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:13:26pm |
re: #18 Dark_Falcon
He was, its a fact. I don't defend his actions, though I will note that many songs sung in Irish clubs, pubs and gatherings still are positive to the IRA. It doesn't justify his actions, but I doubt he thinks he did anything wrong.
Not to mention the IRA-PLO link...
| 23 |
researchok Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:13:53pm |
re: #20 Charles
I'm seriously thinking of switching to Google Chrome for my default browser. The newest version is really fast.
I'm a tech no nothing but I switched to chrome.
Fastest browser I've ever used.
Only the bookmarks feature leaves a bit to be desired,
| 24 |
ProGunLiberal Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:18:10pm |
re: #19 Idle Drifter
Iwakuni should be ok. The earthquake occured off northern Honshu, while Iwakuni is on the southern part of that Island. They'll be busy helping with Rescue and recovery.
| 25 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:19:46pm |
re: #22 Sergey Romanov
Not to mention the IRA-PLO link...
No, that should not be forgotten. Much of the PLO operational skill was imparted by IRA trainers. They also provided the initial bomb-making knowledge.
| 26 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:22:37pm |
re: #3 Dark_Falcon
BTW, after almost 3 years I decided it was time for a new avatar. What does everyone think?
I like the new one.
| 27 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:23:26pm |
re: #3 Dark_Falcon
BTW, after almost 3 years I decided it was time for a new avatar. What does everyone think?
Nice. But a bit "blobby". Hard to get more definition with a black-on-black motif though.
| 28 |
lawhawk Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:25:13pm |
re: #6 Charles
I donated $100 to the Red Cross today for tsunami relief, and you should donate as much as you can afford too.
[Link: american.redcross.org...]
Absolutely. And if not the ARC, then organizations like MSF (Doctors without Borders), Salvation Army, Globalgiving, and several others as compiled by HuffPo, and the NY Times.
| 30 |
Big Joe Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:32:28pm |
re: #23 researchok
I'm a tech no nothing but I switched to chrome.
Fastest browser I've ever used.
Only the bookmarks feature leaves a bit to be desired,
I've been using Chromium but it doesn't have support for some things Chrome provides like video and audio codecs that aren't open source. I like it's portability. I just unzip a new version over the old.
[Link: www.softpedia.com...]
it scores well on the HTML5 test page. (242+) with last Chromium version I downloaded. I see there's version 12 now.
[Link: html5test.com...]
| 31 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:32:39pm |
re: #27 oaktree
Nice. But a bit "blobby". Hard to get more definition with a black-on-black motif though.
It's from Battletech, the insignia for Clan Jade Falcon's Iota Galaxy. A unit from that command, the 305th Assault Cluster, is part of a scenario I'm working on for a game in April.
___
Hur, Hur, Hur. Dork Falcon is playing with plastic robots again. He needs to grow up like us and turn on those liburls.
- Blog of the Damned
| 32 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:33:48pm |
re: #31 Dark_Falcon
It's from Battletech, the insignia for Clan Jade Falcon's Iota Galaxy. A unit from that command, the 305th Assault Cluster, is part of a scenario I'm working on for a game in April.
___
- Blog of the Damned
Makes sense. Good luck with the game.
| 33 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:37:09pm |
| 35 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:37:27pm |
re: #32 oaktree
Makes sense. Good luck with the game.
Incidentally, I originally came up with the name "Dark Falcon" as a name for a small intra-solar system spaceship called a DropShip in the game. I used it register for the main battletech forum when I found out I could not use my then-normal nic. The rest is history, as they say.
| 36 |
Idle Drifter Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:38:48pm |
re: #31 Dark_Falcon
Not Battletech but another expensive hobby. Just a random animation of a Dreadnought from WH40K. The guy who made this short video did a good job. Too bad you have to be dead to use one of those things!
| 37 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:38:49pm |
| 38 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:39:31pm |
re: #3 Dark_Falcon
BTW, after almost 3 years I decided it was time for a new avatar. What does everyone think?
Like it D_F!!!
| 39 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:40:35pm |
re: #14 Stinky Beaumont
The boss wanted me to let you all know that registration is open.
Can I get a new nic? heh
| 40 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:42:06pm |
re: #12 Sergey Romanov
They're not the ones acting all hypocritical and in power now tho. He was a terrorist sympathizer, let's face it.
Good Terrorist vs. Bad Terrorist.
Typical.
| 41 |
Kragar Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:42:20pm |
re: #36 Idle Drifter
Not Battletech but another expensive hobby. Just a random animation of a Dreadnought from WH40K. The guy who made this short video did a good job. Too bad you have to be dead to use one of those things!
[Video]
No, if you're dead, they just take your geneseed. Dreadnoughts are for those injured beyond the point where cybernetic reconstruction is viable and only if they've first proven themselves as worthy.
| 42 |
theheat Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:42:32pm |
I have never played a computer game other than chess or solitaire. This is all alchemy to me.
| 43 |
lawhawk Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:45:57pm |
re: #33 reine.de.tout
I'm kinda partial to MSF, particularly b/c they'll go into the worst places in the world and try to bring critical health care, and the ratio of overhead to money that goes to services is quite good.
| 44 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:46:19pm |
re: #41 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
No, if you're dead, they just take your geneseed. Dreadnoughts are for those injured beyond the point where cybernetic reconstruction is viable and only if they've first proven themselves as worthy.
Like the cyborgs in William Dietz's "Legion of the Damned" and the Shadow Droids of the "Dark Empire" Star Wars comic books.
| 45 |
prairiefire Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:46:29pm |
re: #3 Dark_Falcon
BTW, after almost 3 years I decided it was time for a new avatar. What does everyone think?
Love it. The music is nice, too.
| 46 |
Kragar Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:49:51pm |
re: #44 Dark_Falcon
Like the cyborgs in William Dietz's "Legion of the Damned" and the Shadow Droids of the "Dark Empire" Star Wars comic books.
And then of course it depends on the chapter. Iron Hands view the Dreadnoughts as having achieved the perfect melding of machine and man, while the White Scars would never dream of imprisoning a hero in what they consider a tomb for centuries.
| 47 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:51:15pm |
re: #35 Dark_Falcon
Incidentally, I originally came up with the name "Dark Falcon" as a name for a small intra-solar system spaceship called a DropShip in the game. I used it register for the main battletech forum when I found out I could not use my then-normal nic. The rest is history, as they say.
There are stories behind a lot of nicks I'm sure. Mine is a variation on a nick I've used for years, and that nick has it's own story going back years. I blame IRC...
My time chewer is a couple of solitaire games, plus some other side projects. About ready to start a campaign game of a game called Steel Wolves.
[Link: www.boardgamegeek.com...]
| 48 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:51:44pm |
re: #46 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
And then of course it depends on the chapter. Iron Hands view the Dreadnoughts as having achieved the perfect melding of machine and man, while the White Scars would never dream of imprisoning a hero in what they consider a tomb for centuries.
Amazing that a polity as theocratic and tyrannical as the Empire of Man in 40K would allow such a wide deviation of thought among its fighting units.
| 49 |
Sheila Broflovski Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:52:51pm |
The Magical Balance Fairy is spreading Fairy Dust all over The Land (Haaretz)
Settlers damaging olive trees and spray-painting graffiti = stabbing babies and toddlers to death in their sleep.
I shouldn't have gone there. At least they didn't publish the crime scene photos.
| 50 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:54:05pm |
re: #47 oaktree
There are stories behind a lot of nicks I'm sure. Mine is a variation on a nick I've used for years, and that nick has it's own story going back years. I blame IRC...
My time chewer is a couple of solitaire games, plus some other side projects. About ready to start a campaign game of a game called Steel Wolves.
[Link: www.boardgamegeek.com...]
If you're enjoying that game, do find the time if you every visit Chicago to visit the Museum of Science and Industry. The U505 exhibit is awesome.
| 51 |
Idle Drifter Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:54:51pm |
re: #48 Dark_Falcon
Amazing that a polity as theocratic and tyrannical as the Empire of Man in 40K would allow such a wide deviation of thought among its fighting units.
They're also quick to kill each other for suspected heresy or just getting in each others way.
| 52 |
Interesting Times Sun, Mar 13, 2011 6:55:53pm |
re: #39 Stanley Sea
Can I get a new nic? heh
I regret mine too :( At the time I thought of it, balloon boy and the White House party crashers were recent news. I guess I sort of meant it as a comment on media "ooh, a shiny object" decay.
| 53 |
Kragar Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:00:25pm |
re: #48 Dark_Falcon
Amazing that a polity as theocratic and tyrannical as the Empire of Man in 40K would allow such a wide deviation of thought among its fighting units.
The Marine chapters are given a wider latitude because they predate the Imperium. Additionally, the size and diversity of the Imperium prevents true uniformity of forces. Each world is responsible for a tithe of warriors, but local conditions effect whats produced. A hive world might simply conscript gang members and prisoners, while a forge world would supply tanks and mechanized infantry. Frontier worlds would provide mounted units, scouts, light infantry or other units. The Imperial Guard commands for various sectors provide commissars to ensure loyalty and adherence to Imperial commands. When a crusade is declared, the Lord General will gather any available forces and tailor his campaign to his troops at hand.
| 54 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:03:05pm |
re: #50 Dark_Falcon
If you're enjoying that game, do find the time if you every visit Chicago to visit the Museum of Science and Industry. The U505 exhibit is awesome.
Missed it when I was in Chicago two years ago. But know it's there and plan on taking greater pains the next time around.
I've been on the subs in Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. But that fits more in with the older game, Silent War, which covers the USN sub campaign in the Pacific. (Which I own and have done a few campaign runs of as well.)
| 55 |
prairiefire Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:04:28pm |
re: #50 Dark_Falcon
If you're enjoying that game, do find the time if you every visit Chicago to visit the Museum of Science and Industry. The U505 exhibit is awesome.
That is a great museum. I can smell the hot wax from the figure making machine right now. I spent a lot of time watching the baby chicks hatch.
| 56 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:09:52pm |
re: #55 prairiefire
That is a great museum. I can smell the hot wax from the figure making machine right now. I spent a lot of time watching the baby chicks hatch.
Yes it is. For a time, they had only one of two of those mold machines. But in the last few years, some old ones were refurbished and again took their places making figures for the kids. And the chicks are still there, too.
| 57 |
ProGunLiberal Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:11:19pm |
re: #52 publicityStunted
I kinda regret my nic, but I think of it as showing how I evolved (No longer the PL of PLL).
About the little picture. How can I make it bigger? I want to show the Senussi Libya flag more please.
| 58 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:12:25pm |
re: #56 Dark_Falcon
Yes it is. For a time, they had only one of two of those mold machines. But in the last few years, some old ones were refurbished and again took their places making figures for the kids. And the chicks are still there, too.
The smell of an injection molding machine would give me a different set of memories. I worked in a plastics plant for a year or so after college. An interesting grounding in learning at least part of the manufacturing process, how small companies deal with demand, quality, and maintenance issues. Plus a little bit about worker safety and training as well.
| 59 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:15:45pm |
re: #56 Dark_Falcon
Yes it is. For a time, they had only one of two of those mold machines. But in the last few years, some old ones were refurbished and again took their places making figures for the kids. And the chicks are still there, too.
Hey D_F, we were talking about LaTeX before. Not sure how far along you are into learning to use it (or if you're already an old pro). Would I be outta line in posting links to some tools I've found useful?
| 60 |
Only The Lurker Knows Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:15:47pm |
re: #3 Dark_Falcon
BTW, after almost 3 years I decided it was time for a new avatar. What does everyone think?
Never really looked at you old one, but the new one fits the nic.
BTW, Evening Lizards.
| 61 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:17:40pm |
re: #58 oaktree
The smell of an injection molding machine would give me a different set of memories. I worked in a plastics plant for a year or so after college. An interesting grounding in learning at least part of the manufacturing process, how small companies deal with demand, quality, and maintenance issues. Plus a little bit about worker safety and training as well.
Well, those machines do use plastic, or at least that is what I remember. I could be in error though. Good times still, and great memories. I still visit the Museum of Science and Industry and the Field Museum of Natural History a few times a year. most recently I went to the Field Museum to see their "Gold" and "Horses" exhibits. Both were good, though Gold had more impressive things to be seen. But Horses has some truly interesting things to learn and its opening section was a good look at the evolution of horses.
| 62 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:20:33pm |
re: #61 Dark_Falcon
both museums are world class, to be expected of Chicago...a world class town
| 63 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:22:17pm |
re: #59 McSpiff
Hey D_F, we were talking about LaTeX before. Not sure how far along you are into learning to use it (or if you're already an old pro). Would I be outta line in posting links to some tools I've found useful?
No, post the tools. I'll favorite the posts and then use them the next time I'm over at my parent's house.
| 64 |
Mocking Jay Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:29:25pm |
| 65 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:30:23pm |
re: #52 publicityStunted
I regret mine too :( At the time I thought of it, balloon boy and the White House party crashers were recent news. I guess I sort of meant it as a comment on media "ooh, a shiny object" decay.
; re: #52 publicityStunted
I regret mine too :( At the time I thought of it, balloon boy and the White House party crashers were recent news. I guess I sort of meant it as a comment on media "ooh, a shiny object" decay.
LOL Balloon Boy. Someone here has that photo as their avatar. Oh how something is forgotten.
| 66 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:31:38pm |
Reports of an explosion at reactor 3
From BBC
0227: There were two explosions at Reactor 3, the operator Tepco says - AFP.
0225: Just to remind you: there were fears of a meltdown at Reactor 3 on Sunday. Also: an explosion occurred at Reactor 1 on Saturday but the core was reportedly not exposed.
| 67 |
Interesting Times Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:38:36pm |
| 68 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:38:53pm |
re: #64 JasonA
I thought it was cool where that little white car got the hell out of there.
| 69 |
b_sharp Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:39:05pm |
D_F, I thought you were asking for suggestions for an avatar so I went looking and found something Pythonesque. I used it as my avatar as the simplest way to show you.
| 70 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:41:02pm |
re: #63 Dark_Falcon
No, post the tools. I'll favorite the posts and then use them the next time I'm over at my parent's house.
Awesome.
So for getting a full and complete LaTeX environment setup and kept up to date, I use Tex Live. Includes a nice client to CTAN, the Comprehensive Tex Archive Network, the place to find all kinds of useful Tex software.
I like being able to use my system's OpenType fonts, useful for Unicode support, doing things like 'é' and just generally better font handling than the default LaTeX so I use XeLaTeX, which is included with the Tex Live install. More info on that project is here.
I was until recently a student, and had to deal with papers that had strict requirements on margins, fonts, spacing, headers, etc. I found most classes covered by tutorials were too limited in the ability to set these options, and customizing them yourself to be a real pain. Luckily, there's memoir. Greatly simplified setting up these basic layouts.
If you want to do powerpoint-like presentations in LaTex, you'll want to look into the Beamer class.
If you want something that's a little more Word like in its interface, but still produces high quality output, LyX may interest you.
I'm an Emacs user, which includes the awesome AUCTeX mode.
I'm a big fan of org-mode in general, but I like the fact that it can produce high quality latex documents from its own simplified markup.
That's everything I use day in/day out... if you wanted to give a bit more background on what you're using it for I might be able to think of some other things for you.
| 71 |
abolitionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:41:13pm |
re: #37 Charles
"I thought today was the last day of my life."
Hiromitsu Shinkawa, 60, was rescued nine miles at sea on Sunday. He says his wife was swept away by the tsunami.
So sad.
| 72 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:41:29pm |
| 73 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:41:37pm |
Rep. Michele Bachmann: I'd Release My Birth Certificate
| 74 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:41:49pm |
re: #69 b_sharp
D_F, I thought you were asking for suggestions for an avatar so I went looking and found something Pythonesque. I used it as my avatar as the simplest way to show you.
It's just the thing to scare Jimmy Carter. Luckily, I have Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
/
| 75 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:43:20pm |
re: #70 McSpiff
Awesome.
So for getting a full and complete LaTeX environment setup and kept up to date, I use Tex Live. Includes a nice client to CTAN, the Comprehensive Tex Archive Network, the place to find all kinds of useful Tex software.
I like being able to use my system's OpenType fonts, useful for Unicode support, doing things like 'é' and just generally better font handling than the default LaTeX so I use XeLaTeX, which is included with the Tex Live install. More info on that project is here.
I was until recently a student, and had to deal with papers that had strict requirements on margins, fonts, spacing, headers, etc. I found most classes covered by tutorials were too limited in the ability to set these options, and customizing them yourself to be a real pain. Luckily, there's memoir. Greatly simplified setting up these basic layouts.
If you want to do powerpoint-like presentations in LaTex, you'll want to look into the Beamer class.
If you want something that's a little more Word like in its interface, but still produces high quality output, LyX may interest you.
I'm an Emacs user, which includes the awesome AUCTeX mode.
I'm a big fan of org-mode in general, but I like the fact that it can produce high quality latex documents from its own simplified markup.
That's everything I use day in/day out... if you wanted to give a bit more background on what you're using it for I might be able to think of some other things for you.
Thanks. favorited and updinged.
| 76 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:44:29pm |
re: #73 Killgore Trout
I bet she doesn't release her history test scores.
| 77 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:44:39pm |
re: #68 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I thought it was cool where that little white car got the hell out of there.
I can only imagine them thinking, "It can't keep rising, right? It has to stop at some point."
First the cars move, then the debris is coming in, then the houses are coming up the street.
| 78 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:44:47pm |
re: #73 Killgore Trout
Rep. Michele Bachmann: I'd Release My Birth Certificate
[Video]
She course she would. What she wouldn't release are the medical records that would that after she was born she was dropped on her head.
/Hey, its as good an explanation as any as to why she's a raving loon.
| 79 |
Kragar Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:44:49pm |
re: #73 Killgore Trout
Rep. Michele Bachmann: I'd Release My Birth Certificate
[Video]
I'm sorry, but the format she provides is one I don't recognize as being valid.
| 80 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:46:32pm |
re: #79 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm sorry, but the format she provides is one I don't recognize as being valid.
And you will refuse to recognize it as valid no matter how many people patiently explain it is a perfectly legal form of birth documentation, and no, Mars does not issue birth certificates for people born on Jupiter.
| 81 |
ProGunLiberal Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:47:44pm |
re: #80 EmmmieG
Really, cause I thought she came from a little farther out, Solar System wise.
| 82 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:48:27pm |
You have to admit that it's currently easier to explain politics to a six year-old than it ever has been. You just say that it's just like the kids on the playground...
| 83 |
Kragar Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:48:54pm |
re: #81 ProLifeLiberal
Really, cause I thought she came from a little farther out, Solar System wise.
[insert Uranus joke here]
| 84 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:49:51pm |
So, the only clocks I really use are my cell phone and my computer. They changed themselves automatically. Didn't know time had changed until someone told me. What an antiquated system.
| 85 |
Mocking Jay Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:50:46pm |
re: #83 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
[insert Uranus joke here]
To hell with you for using "insert" and "Uranus" in the same sentence, Mister!!!
| 87 |
Bear Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:51:30pm |
re: #66 Rightwingconspirator
Kyodo News also reports the #3 explosion. What Next?
| 88 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:51:33pm |
re: #84 McSpiff
So, the only clocks I really use are my cell phone and my computer. They changed themselves automatically. Didn't know time had changed until someone told me. What an antiquated system.
I still hold that all legislators should be forced to watch, all day, a toddler for the two weeks after the DST change.
It's miserable. They don't cope well with losing an hour of sleep, and you can't just tell them to go to bed earlier.
| 89 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:52:50pm |
re: #84 McSpiff
So, the only clocks I really use are my cell phone and my computer. They changed themselves automatically. Didn't know time had changed until someone told me. What an antiquated system.
I saw a cool documentary on Buckingham Castle. There's a guy that does nothing but care for the clocks. It takes him weeks to go around and change all the clocks by hand.
| 90 |
lawhawk Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:52:56pm |
Conflicting reports over whether another tsunami is imminent - no significant quakes are reported in the vicinity, but there are reports that a hydrogen explosion involved reactor 3, the other reactor at Fukushima that was of serious concern.
| 91 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:54:36pm |
re: #90 lawhawk
Conflicting reports over whether another tsunami is imminent - no significant quakes are reported in the vicinity, but there are reports that a hydrogen explosion involved reactor 3, the other reactor at Fukushima that was of serious concern.
thanks for the updates.
| 92 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:57:14pm |
0254: To recap, in the past hour we have had reports of a new tsunami which appears to have been a false alarm, and a blast has wrecked a wall at a nuclear reactor but its containment vessel withstood the impact. We also had reports of 2,000 bodies found on the tsunami-ravaged north-eastern coast.
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
| 93 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:58:09pm |
re: #92 Rightwingconspirator
0254: To recap, in the past hour we have had reports of a new tsunami which appears to have been a false alarm, and a blast has wrecked a wall at a nuclear reactor but its containment vessel withstood the impact. We also had reports of 2,000 bodies found on the tsunami-ravaged north-eastern coast.
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
Tragically, I expect even more bodies to wash up. At least they can be identified.
| 94 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:58:42pm |
re: #92 Rightwingconspirator
0254: To recap, in the past hour we have had reports of a new tsunami which appears to have been a false alarm, and a blast has wrecked a wall at a nuclear reactor but its containment vessel withstood the impact. We also had reports of 2,000 bodies found on the tsunami-ravaged north-eastern coast.
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
I'd really like to hear what the temperatures are in those cores...
| 95 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:58:49pm |
re: #89 Killgore Trout
I saw a cool documentary on Buckingham Castle. There's a guy that does nothing but care for the clocks. It takes him weeks to go around and change all the clocks by hand.
Sounds almost like a bridge-painting job. As soon as your done, it's time to start again. (ooo... Pink Floyd.)
Would be an interesting resume entry though.
| 96 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Mar 13, 2011 7:58:50pm |
Evening lizards!
The news keeps changing in Japan. Incredible and scary.
| 98 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:04:25pm |
Blast rocks stricken Japanese N-reactor, vessel intact
A new explosion rocked Japan's stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power complex on Monday, sending a plume of smoke into the air. Japan's nuclear safety agency said it could not confirm whether or not the hydrogen explosion at the plant's No.3 reactor had led to an uncontrolled leak of radioactivity.
However, the blast did not damaged the plant's No.3 reactor vessel, news agency Jiji said, quoting the plant's owner, Tokyo Electric Power Co.
Operators had earlier halted injection of sea water into the reactor, resulting in a rise in radiation levels and pressure.
The government had warned that an explosion was possible because of the buildup of hydrogen in the building housing the reactor.
Bad news but it could have been worse.
| 99 |
abolitionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:07:31pm |
How the nuclear emergency unfolded - Status of the nuclear reactors at Daini and Daiichi
Multiple pages; be sure to click thru.
| 101 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:17:17pm |
| 102 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:17:43pm |
re: #99 abolitionist
How the nuclear emergency unfolded - Status of the nuclear reactors at Daini and Daiichi
Multiple pages; be sure to click thru.
Interesting, thanks.
| 103 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:18:54pm |
re: #98 NJDhockeyfan
Blast rocks stricken Japanese N-reactor, vessel intact
Bad news but it could have been worse.
Indeed. A full-scale meltdown would be hell on earth.
| 104 |
ProGunLiberal Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:21:59pm |
From Al-Jazeera Live Blog on Libya:
01:51am Chuck Schumer, a US democratic senator, has said that imposing a no fly zone on Libya "is more likely" because the Arab League supports the move.
If this happens, it will be the 5th time the US has attacked or invaded Libya.
1: 1st Barbary War
2: 2nd Barbary War
3: World War II
4: Incidents in the 80's
Also, the US military will be doing
4
things at once
1: Residual Forces in Iraq
2: War in Afghanistan
3: Assistance to Japanese Recovery
I would support an attack on Gaddafi and his forces. It may not seem Liberal, but he has proven himself to be a monster, and is threatening to kill all those against him. We can find the money to pay for an operation, and we can repair any damage our reputation takes, but you cannot get the lives that this creature will kill back.
| 105 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:24:06pm |
re: #104 ProLifeLiberal
From Al-Jazeera Live Blog on Libya:
If this happens, it will be the 5th time the US has attacked or invaded Libya.
1: 1st Barbary War
2: 2nd Barbary War
3: World War II
4: Incidents in the 80'sAlso, the US military will be doing
things at once
1: Residual Forces in Iraq
2: War in Afghanistan
3: Assistance to Japanese RecoveryI would support an attack on Gaddafi and his forces. It may not seem Liberal, but he has proven himself to be a monster, and is threatening to kill all those against him. We can find the money to pay for an operation, and we can repair any damage our reputation takes, but you cannot get the lives that this creature will kill back.
It's Liberal in the sense of bringing life and liberty. Sometimes that requires armed force.
| 106 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:27:45pm |
0328: Seven people are missing and three people have been injured by the explosion at the Fukushima 1 nuclear plant, the AFP news agency reports, quoting an official from Tepco, the company which operates the plant.
| 107 |
ProGunLiberal Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:29:59pm |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
Yes, I think the same. Sometimes, there can be a Humanitarian reason for war. At thispoint, I think Gaddafi needs to end up like Ceaucescu.
| 108 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:31:15pm |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
It's Liberal in the sense of bringing life and liberty. Sometimes that requires armed force.
The Libs wanted non of that in Iraq. I would be shocked if they supported a military attack on Libya. I certainly support it and I think it's overdue.
| 109 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:32:17pm |
re: #108 NJDhockeyfan
The Libs wanted non of that in Iraq. I would be shocked if they supported a military attack on Libya. I certainly support it and I think it's overdue.
What circumstances warrant a U.S. intervention? Anywhere in the world, I mean.
| 110 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:37:13pm |
re: #109 SanFranciscoZionist
What circumstances warrant a U.S. intervention? Anywhere in the world, I mean.
Every circumstance is different obviously but when a dictator is committing genocide in their own country I don't have a problem saving lives by attacking the murderous tyrants.
| 111 |
Kronocide Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:39:10pm |
re: #108 NJDhockeyfan
The Libs wanted non of that in Iraq.
Nice way to turn a complex geopolitical situation into a cheap sleight at your political counterparts. Have a downding.
| 112 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:40:18pm |
Who the hell thought venting hydrogen into an enclosed space was a good idea? Were they trying to keep radiation levels down by not venting straight to the outside, or did the design not permit them to vent outside? Either way this seems like an enormous miscalculation.
| 113 |
quiet reader Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:42:30pm |
re: #110 NJDhockeyfan
Every circumstance is different obviously but when a dictator is committing genocide in their own country I don't have a problem saving lives by attacking the murderous tyrants.
Did that view extend to the murderous right wing dictators in Latin America who were responsible for the deaths of countless peasants during the eighties?
| 114 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:43:20pm |
re: #112 goddamnedfrank
Who the hell thought venting hydrogen into an enclosed space was a good idea? Were they trying to keep radiation levels down by not venting straight to the outside, or did the design not permit them to vent outside? Either way this seems like an enormous miscalculation.
Someone who had forgotten about the Hindenburg disaster, that's for sure. Large amounts hydrogen and heat are a time bomb. You knew that already, of course, but this is one of the times we agree on something.
| 115 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:44:40pm |
re: #112 goddamnedfrank
If that blows the containment vessel itself, thats far far worse. So they vent. Which BTW they did at Three Mile Island.
| 116 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:45:18pm |
re: #113 quiet reader
Did that view extend to the murderous right wing dictators in Latin America who were responsible for the deaths of countless peasants during the eighties?
In some cases, their removal would have opened the door to communists who were even worse. The Sandanistas were even worse than Somoza, as an example. The thing we need to get better at is moving allies away from dictatorships.
| 118 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:48:30pm |
re: #110 NJDhockeyfan
Every circumstance is different obviously but when a dictator is committing genocide in their own country I don't have a problem saving lives by attacking the murderous tyrants.
But what's the goal in Libya? Is there a functioning government that can emerge if we back their supporters? If not, are we prepared to go in and do nation-building in yet a third location?
How do we pick?
| 119 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:50:36pm |
re: #116 Dark_Falcon
In some cases, their removal would have opened the door to communists who were even worse. The Sandanistas were even worse than Somoza, as an example. The thing we need to get better at is moving allies away from dictatorships.
We made the same calculation with Saddam Hussein, and now I routinely see the massacres he carried out during that time cited as a reason for invading Iraq.
I'm not adverse to realpolitik, but I hate to see it confused with morality.
| 121 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:51:16pm |
re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist
But what's the goal in Libya? Is there a functioning government that can emerge if we back their supporters? If not, are we prepared to go in and do nation-building in yet a third location?
How do we pick?
In Libya right now there's an active rebellion which may be crushed with huge loss of life unless we act. That's reason enough for me. 'Turn the Air Force and Navy loose' sounds like the right course.
| 122 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:52:08pm |
re: #114 Dark_Falcon
Someone who had forgotten about the Hindenburg disaster, that's for sure. Large amounts hydrogen and heat are a time bomb. You knew that already, of course, but this is one of the times we agree on something.
Difference is the Hindenburg burned at the edges, it didn't mix with oxygen first and then detonate. Releasing the gasses straight to the atmosphere would have allowed the hydrogen to rise up and away. Odds would be against it finding an ignition source before dissipation. Radiation levels would have increased outside much faster, but that's a done deal now. A flare tower might work, if it didn't produce tritiated water and radioactive cesium hydroxide, both of which were probably produced in these explosions.
| 123 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:53:50pm |
re: #113 quiet reader
Did that view extend to the murderous right wing dictators in Latin America who were responsible for the deaths of countless peasants during the eighties?
Left wing, right wing...I don't care who they are. If they are murdering civilians they need to be stopped. Murder is murder, don't turn this type of vicious criminal behavior by tyrants into something political.
| 124 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:54:48pm |
re: #122 goddamnedfrank
From working with hydrogen gas in torches, I was taught one scary thing about hydrogen is the sheer speed of detonation. Far faster than methane or propane. This means you get a far more forceful detonation. Oh and unlike methane the concentration it will detonate at is very wide.
| 125 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:55:06pm |
re: #121 Dark_Falcon
In Libya right now there's an active rebellion which may be crushed with huge loss of life unless we act. That's reason enough for me. 'Turn the Air Force and Navy loose' sounds like the right course.
Why does the United States have a vested interest in this, and not many other conflicts around the world?
| 126 |
quiet reader Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:55:47pm |
Someone who had forgotten about the Hindenburg disaster
The venting of the gas was a last ditch effort, they had no choice but to release the gas. This is unscripted, the use of ocean water as a direct coolant is unprecedented. After what occurred at the #1 reactor, it was obvious that explosion was possible. Most likely, they had other choice than to take that risk in order to save the containment dome.
| 127 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:56:00pm |
re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist
Why does the United States have a vested interest in this, and not many other conflicts around the world?
Good will in the Arab world and Oil.
| 128 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:56:07pm |
re: #121 Dark_Falcon
In Libya right now there's an active rebellion which may be crushed with huge loss of life unless we act. That's reason enough for me. 'Turn the Air Force and Navy loose' sounds like the right course.
But, why does it always have to be the US?
Are we the only ones that truly care enough to save lives and human rights?
I think Obama and Clinton before him were both elected partially because the citizenry wanted to focus on domestic issues. Is there the support for another military intervention?
| 129 |
abolitionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:57:41pm |
re: #115 Rightwingconspirator
If that blows the containment vessel itself, thats far far worse. So they vent. Which BTW they did at Three Mile Island.
From p6 of my #99 [Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
Nuclear analyst Kenneth D. Bergeron describes the primary containment vessels as "not particularly robust," better than Chernobyl, but not as good as Three Mile Island.
The graphics (pp 3,4,5,6) make clear that the 1st-reported hydrogen explosion was outside the primary steel/concrete containment structure, but inside the secondary containment (the rectangular building), and that the primary containment was left intact. I hope that is also the case for the #3 unit.
| 130 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:58:22pm |
re: #128 ggt
But, why does it always have to be the US?
Are we the only ones that truly care enough to save lives and human rights?
I think Obama and Clinton before him were both elected partially because the citizenry wanted to focus on domestic issues. Is there the support for another military intervention?
There was a surprising amount of grumbling in Canada when it was announced that a frigate was being stationed off Libya. After Afghanistan the Canadian people have no stomach for anything that even looks like another military intervention.
| 131 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:58:35pm |
re: #122 goddamnedfrank
Difference is the Hindenburg burned at the edges, it didn't mix with oxygen first and then detonate. Releasing the gasses straight to the atmosphere would have allowed the hydrogen to rise up and away. Odds would be against it finding an ignition source before dissipation. Radiation levels would have increased outside much faster, but that's a done deal now. A flare tower might work, if it didn't produce tritiated water and radioactive cesium hydroxide, both of which were probably produced in these explosions.
Is this normal hydrogen or does it have more Neutrium and Tritium than normal?
| 132 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:58:49pm |
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
0351: Full quotes from Yukio Edano on the explosion: "We believe that there is a low possibility that a massive amount of radiation has been leaked. But it is similar to the time when the hydrogen explosion took place in number 1 reactor (which exploded on Saturday). In the case of number 3 reactor, we can see higher level of radiation. We are now collecting information for the concentration of the radiation and the dose."
| 133 |
Mocking Jay Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:59:05pm |
Ah, I see we've learned all the right lessons from Iraq...
| 134 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Mar 13, 2011 8:59:50pm |
re: #118 SanFranciscoZionist
But what's the goal in Libya? Is there a functioning government that can emerge if we back their supporters? If not, are we prepared to go in and do nation-building in yet a third location?
How do we pick?
Sitting on the sidelines watching Mo murder civilians & now journalists is not something we can just continue to do don't you think? People in these small countries used to think they could count on the US and the West for help if their leaders turned on them. I would hope that's still the case.
| 135 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:01:01pm |
re: #130 McSpiff
There was a surprising amount of grumbling in Canada when it was announced that a frigate was being stationed off Libya. After Afghanistan the Canadian people have no stomach for anything that even looks like another military intervention.
They shouldn't worry. This is some cruise missiles for them, at most. No one is talking about ground troops going in.
| 136 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:01:29pm |
re: #134 NJDhockeyfan
Sitting on the sidelines watching Mo murder civilians & now journalists is not something we can just continue to do don't you think? People in these small countries used to think they could count on the US and the West for help if their leaders turned on them. I would hope that's still the case.
You're not actually making an argument. There are numerous civil wars going on across Africa. What makes this one special? Why not intervene in Darfour or go back to Somalia?
| 137 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:01:37pm |
re: #123 NJDhockeyfan
Left wing, right wing...I don't care who they are. If they are murdering civilians they need to be stopped. Murder is murder, don't turn this type of vicious criminal behavior by tyrants into something political.
You started with 'the libs' and their stance on Iraq.
How many murderous little wars are going on worldwide? Why is this the one we need to step into?
| 138 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:02:21pm |
re: #135 Dark_Falcon
They shouldn't worry. This is some cruise missiles for them, at most. No one is talking about ground troops going in.
Agreed. I actually have a friend on ship. Like many military operations, right now their biggest problem is boredom.
| 139 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:02:39pm |
re: #127 Dark_Falcon
Good will in the Arab world and Oil.
OK. That's an answer. Can we really protect either with military intervention at this point?
| 140 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:04:19pm |
re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist
OK. That's an answer. Can we really protect either with military intervention at this point?
I think so. Goodwill if we lay the groundwork right, and oil if we protect the eastern oil fields from damage.
| 141 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:04:32pm |
re: #132 Rightwingconspirator
We believe that there is a low possibility that a massive amount of radiation has been leaked.
I don't like the sound of that.
| 142 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:06:08pm |
Some 2,000 bodies found on quake-hit Miyagi's coastal areas
It's one of the grimmest tasks for someone in law enforcement or the military - picking up dead bodies.
While I really do believe the Japanese, in their own way, will rebuild some of these communities, NE Japan just won't be the same. Like Katrina did to NOLA, the effects will go on for a very long time.
| 143 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:06:12pm |
re: #127 Dark_Falcon
Good will in the Arab world and Oil.
I'd like to think the Good Will was a good reason, but I need something I can take to the bank.
Security in the region, maybe?
I'd like to see the Arab World find their way to democracy without anymore of our intervention.
If the International Community won't step-up the plate, I don't think we should invest more of our resources.
I whole-heartedly support our intervention in Iraq, but I don't see it in the stars for Libya.
| 144 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:09:29pm |
re: #126 quiet reader
The venting of the gas was a last ditch effort, they had no choice but to release the gas. This is unscripted, the use of ocean water as a direct coolant is unprecedented. After what occurred at the #1 reactor, it was obvious that explosion was possible. Most likely, they had other choice than to take that risk in order to save the containment dome.
That's what I figured, they never planned this and had no way to vent outside the structure.re: #131 Dark_Falcon
Is this normal hydrogen or does it have more Neutrium and Tritium than normal?
The vast majority of it is just normal hydrogen. However the presence of Cesium indicates that the fuel rods have partially melted, mixing fission byproducts with the water, which is where the radioactive iodine and any tritium would come from. These boiling water reactors have no secondary coolant loop like we're used to, the water that cools the reactors also cycles the turbines. It's a fucked up design.
| 145 |
NJDhockeyfan Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:10:21pm |
re: #136 McSpiff
There are numerous civil wars going on across Africa. What makes this one special? Why not intervene in Darfour or go back to Somalia?
re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist
How many murderous little wars are going on worldwide? Why is this the one we need to step into?
Good question. The UN seems to be the ones calling the shots trying to stop the violence in those wars and haven't done shit. Maybe NATO and other friendly countries should help us try to stop all this. I wouldn't bet on it though.
| 146 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:11:10pm |
re: #134 NJDhockeyfan
Sitting on the sidelines watching Mo murder civilians & now journalists is not something we can just continue to do don't you think? People in these small countries used to think they could count on the US and the West for help if their leaders turned on them. I would hope that's still the case.
Sure we can sit on the sidelines. We do it all the time.
People in small countries we deemed important enough to address, sure. Probably over five million people have died in Congo over the last twelve-thirteen years. What have we done? What have we done all over Africa? What did we do in East Timor?
Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against going into Libya, if there's something actually to be gained for anyone from our doing so. I'm arguing that this is far from a clear-cut moral decision.
| 147 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:11:36pm |
re: #136 McSpiff
You're not actually making an argument. There are numerous civil wars going on across Africa. What makes this one special? Why not intervene in Darfour or go back to Somalia?
Libya has a chance of being civilized under, aside from having more economic and strategic relevance to us (if that sounds self serving, that's life) Darfour or Somalia can't be ruled by law in our lifetimere: #144 goddamnedfrank
The vast majority of it is just normal hydrogen. However the presence of Cesium indicates that the fuel rods have partially melted, mixing fission byproducts with the water, which is where the radioactive iodine and any tritium would come from. These boiling water reactors have no secondary coolant loop like we're used to, the water that cools the reactors also cycles the turbines. It's a fucked up design.
.
| 148 |
ProGunLiberal Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:11:57pm |
re: #134 NJDhockeyfan
Qatar lost a citzen because of that bastard. I would imagine they will start screaming for blood.
If I'm not mistaken, the Enterrise, plus some other ships are nearby. Essentially, they can just take potshots at their Air Force and artillery.
re: #143 ggt
Remember, we didn't get our democracy on our own. We had allies in France, Spain and the Netherlands. Morocco threw their ports open to us, and after the war we signed an alliance between the two of our nations. Yeah, that last sentence went a bit off topic, but I see no reason to say they have to do this on their own. Because we sure as heck didn't.
| 150 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:12:22pm |
re: #140 Dark_Falcon
I think so. Goodwill if we lay the groundwork right, and oil if we protect the eastern oil fields from damage.
I'd feel more sure of that if I knew more about who the opposition is.
| 151 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:12:42pm |
re: #145 NJDhockeyfan
re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist
Good question. The UN seems to be the ones calling the shots trying to stop the violence in those wars and haven't done shit. Maybe NATO and other friendly countries should help us try to stop all this. I wouldn't bet on it though.
Uhh, I'm probably one of the largest supporters of NATO on this board, but you better believe if they ever advocate changing the mandate from one based on mutual defense to Africa's police force I will be the first to advocate for the complete dismantling of the alliance.
| 152 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:13:00pm |
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
The Pentagon was expected to announce that the aircraft carrier Ronald Reagan, which is sailing in the Pacific, passed through a radioactive cloud from stricken nuclear reactors in Japan, causing crew members on deck to receive a month’s worth of radiation in about an hour, government officials said Sunday.
| 153 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:14:03pm |
re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist
Sure we can sit on the sidelines. We do it all the time.
People in small countries we deemed important enough to address, sure. Probably over five million people have died in Congo over the last twelve-thirteen years. What have we done? What have we done all over Africa? What did we do in East Timor?
Just to be clear, I'm not arguing against going into Libya, if there's something actually to be gained for anyone from our doing so. I'm arguing that this is far from a clear-cut moral decision.
Clear-cut moral decisions have nothing to do with why the US gets involved in a conflict... it's political decisions. Clear-cut moral reasons are simply the public realations for consumption at home.
| 154 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:14:24pm |
re: #147 Naso Tang
Libya has a chance of being civilized under, aside from having more economic and strategic relevance to us (if that sounds self serving, that's life) Darfour or Somalia can't be ruled by law in our lifetimere: #144 goddamnedfrank
.
Libya has a chance of being civilized? I'm not sure that comes across the way you want it to.
| 155 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:14:25pm |
re: #144 goddamnedfrank
That's what I figured, they never planned this and had no way to vent outside the structure.re: #131 Dark_Falcon
The vast majority of it is just normal hydrogen. However the presence of Cesium indicates that the fuel rods have partially melted, mixing fission byproducts with the water, which is where the radioactive iodine and any tritium would come from. These boiling water reactors have no secondary coolant loop like we're used to, the water that cools the reactors also cycles the turbines. It's a fucked up design.
Thanks for the info. I'm glad our reactors are better built than those the are in peril. Any ways to cool the cores that haven't been tried? (Not pushing, just trying to brain-storm).
| 156 |
prairiefire Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:14:43pm |
re: #61 Dark_Falcon
The designated bus that runs out there is handy.
| 157 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:15:16pm |
re: #153 Walter L. Newton
Clear-cut moral decisions have nothing to do with why the US gets involved in a conflict... it's political decisions. Clear-cut moral reasons are simply the public realations for consumption at home.
I couldn't agree more.
I just don't believe in letting myself think we ever bomb just because it will save lives.
| 158 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:15:33pm |
re: #154 McSpiff
Libya has a chance of being civilized? I'm not sure that comes across the way you want it to.
It is not under the likes of Gaddafi is what I meant.
| 159 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:16:23pm |
Debone Chicken
| 160 |
prairiefire Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:16:41pm |
re: #146 SanFranciscoZionist
Pres. George Bush funded AIDS relief to Africa, saving millions of lives.
| 161 |
Big Joe Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:17:00pm |
re: #155 Dark_Falcon
Thanks for the info. I'm glad our reactors are better built than those the are in peril. Any ways to cool the cores that haven't been tried? (Not pushing, just trying to brain-storm).
Actually there are 23 reactors in the US of that design by General Electric.
| 162 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:17:03pm |
re: #154 McSpiff
Libya has a chance of being civilized? I'm not sure that comes across the way you want it to.
It's true though--Libya's a reasonably functional nation, albeit one that's been ruled by a lunatic for a long time, and they will probably be a reasonably functional nation again under whoever wins this scramble.
Somalia is genuinely in shambles, no longer really a nation at all at this point.
| 163 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:17:43pm |
| 164 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:17:56pm |
re: #160 prairiefire
Pres. George Bush funded AIDS relief to Africa, saving millions of lives.
That's true. We've provided a great deal of foreign aid over the years.
I was thinking of military intervention, and spoke too broadly.
| 165 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:18:31pm |
re: #152 Rightwingconspirator
One of my pet peeves about "the media" is how they through around terms that push buttons but don't really describe what is going on. Ok, so everyone does that, but is it really too much to write "radioactive isotopes of cesium and iodine" instead of "radiation".
Everyone everywhere, at all times, are receiving "radiation" from their surroundings. You and me, right now, are being inundated as such.
The danger from Fukushima reactors is that easily absorbed (into the human body) salts of short lived isotopes of cesium and iodine will fall (via dust or precipitation) on humans, be ingested or inhaled, thus raising the amount of radioactive elements in body organs (e.g. thyroid.)
| 166 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:18:34pm |
re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist
It's true though--Libya's a reasonably functional nation, albeit one that's been ruled by a lunatic for a long time, and they will probably be a reasonably functional nation again under whoever wins this scramble.
Somalia is genuinely in shambles, no longer really a nation at all at this point.
There's a difference between nation state and civilization. Bringing civilization to Africa has colonial overtones that I'm not comfortable with.
| 168 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:18:53pm |
| 169 |
prairiefire Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:19:45pm |
re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist
The closer the society is to western capitalism, the more educated the people are. The wealthy and elite send their kids to the UK for schooling.
| 170 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:19:59pm |
re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist
I couldn't agree more.
I just don't believe in letting myself think we ever bomb just because it will save lives.
I don't agree. Both factors play a role. Why did we get involved in Bosnia? Humanitarian reasons were as great as any, but on the political side we always have an interest in stability and a stability that shares something with us. I see nothing wrong or hypocritical with that.
| 171 |
sagehen Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:21:03pm |
re: #155 Dark_Falcon
Thanks for the info. I'm glad our reactors are better built than those the are in peril. Any ways to cool the cores that haven't been tried? (Not pushing, just trying to brain-storm).
No they're not. Our reactors are built exactly like that.
| 172 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:21:24pm |
re: #166 McSpiff
There's a difference between nation state and civilization. Bringing civilization to Africa has colonial overtones that I'm not comfortable with.
Fair enough objection, then.
| 173 |
sagehen Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:22:29pm |
re: #160 prairiefire
Pres. George Bush funded AIDS relief to Africa, saving millions of lives.
Yes, the medications were very helpful.
You know what would have saved even more lives? Condom distribution.
| 174 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:23:17pm |
re: #170 Naso Tang
I don't agree. Both factors play a role. Why did we get involved in Bosnia? Humanitarian reasons were as great as any, but on the political side we always have an interest in stability and a stability that shares something with us. I see nothing wrong or hypocritical with that.
Bosnia was in Europe. We would never have gotten involved if they were not.
I don't have an objection to the U.S. acting on our own best interests. However, as everyone here has probably noted, I do have a violent allergic reaction to the pretense that humanitarian concerns come first.
| 175 |
prairiefire Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:25:15pm |
re: #173 sagehen
Yes, the medications were very helpful.
You know what would have saved even more lives? Condom distribution.
President Obama recsinded the Mexico City Policy, which lifts the gag rule on foriegn dealings:[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 176 |
ProGunLiberal Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:26:42pm |
re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist
Unrecognized Somaliland in the northern part of the nation is doing okay. Not sure if we should recognize their government or not, but it is interesting.
| 177 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:26:48pm |
re: #155 Dark_Falcon
Thanks for the info. I'm glad our reactors are better built than those the are in peril. Any ways to cool the cores that haven't been tried? (Not pushing, just trying to brain-storm).
Nothing I can think of. Seawater and boric acid means they've already written the reactors off completely, and now the containment domes are sitting under a pile of rubble.
| 178 |
prairiefire Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:26:49pm |
re: #175 prairiefire
President Obama recsinded the Mexico City Policy, which lifts the gag rule on foriegn dealings:[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
I don't have a link to how the Africa stream of money would be affected. I think it might be all doled out.
| 179 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:29:31pm |
re: #174 SanFranciscoZionist
Bosnia was in Europe. We would never have gotten involved if they were not.
I don't have an objection to the U.S. acting on our own best interests. However, as everyone here has probably noted, I do have a violent allergic reaction to the pretense that humanitarian concerns come first.
Doesn't that depend on who you ask? I suspect the politicians and military will focus first on strategic issues, which is what they are supposed to do, but the public will likely see mostly the humanitarian aspects if it not a matter of obvious self defense.
| 180 |
quiet reader Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:29:49pm |
re: #144 goddamnedfrank
That's what I figured, they never planned this and had no way to vent outside the structure
From what I have been reading, there still is a significant risk of a complete meltdown and breach of containment. This isn't over until the core is cooled, heat is the enemy.
| 181 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:30:36pm |
re: #179 Naso Tang
Doesn't that depend on who you ask? I suspect the politicians and military will focus first on strategic issues, which is what they are supposed to do, but the public will likely see mostly the humanitarian aspects if it not a matter of obvious self defense.
The public doesn't send troops.
| 182 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:31:34pm |
| 183 |
Big Joe Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:32:55pm |
It looks like Fukushima Dai-ichi reactor #1 is the smallest reactor at 460 MW, #2-4 are all 784 MW units.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 184 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:33:03pm |
re: #161 mracb
Actually there are 23 reactors in the US of that design by General Electric.
I hope somebody takes this as a lesson and figures out how to vent those fuckers properly, and puts in another stage of backup power for the cooling pumps. I would suggest an onsite RTG mounted somewhere high above sea level since most of them probably have plenty of spent fuel waste sitting around anyway.
| 185 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:33:35pm |
re: #182 Naso Tang
Ultimately, in our system, it does.
Very indirectly. We don't vote on it, except in retrospect.
| 186 |
Big Joe Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:36:41pm |
re: #184 goddamnedfrank
I hope somebody takes this as a lesson and figures out how to vent those fuckers properly, and puts in another stage of backup power for the cooling pumps. I would suggest an onsite RTG mounted somewhere high above sea level since most of them probably have plenty of spent fuel waste sitting around anyway.
Make the generators safe from tsunami and things should work out. The tsunami took out the backup generators. That was a predictable is preventable issue with those reactors built on the ocean in earthquake area and known for large tsunami. It should have been planned for better. Risk management should have identified that long ago.
| 187 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:36:45pm |
re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist
Very indirectly. We don't vote on it, except in retrospect.
We might as well do away with the military if we decided to have a vote on every military decision. Nothing would ever happen, or if it did it would be too late.
My point is simply that we are all, collectively, responsible for the system we have.
| 188 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:38:44pm |
re: #187 Naso Tang
We might as well do away with the military if we decided to have a vote on every military decision. Nothing would ever happen, or if it did it would be too late.
My point is simply that we are all, collectively, responsible for the system we have.
Sure. Which to me means that we should not hide from understanding how we make decisions as a nation.
| 189 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:41:35pm |
re: #186 mracb
Make the generators safe from tsunami and things should work out. The tsunami took out the backup generators. That was a predictable is preventable issue with those reactors built on the ocean in earthquake area and known for large tsunami. It should have been planned for better. Risk management should have identified that long ago.
Yes, it seems very strange that they could not shut down completely. I'm no expert on these matters, but surely they have to be able to do a more complete and stable shutdown just for things like refueling?
I wonder whether the quake did not do some internal damage that prevented some fuel or damping rods from activating.
| 190 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:42:36pm |
re: #188 SanFranciscoZionist
Sure. Which to me means that we should not hide from understanding how we make decisions as a nation.
OK, but I wasn't debating that.
| 191 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:44:11pm |
re: #189 Naso Tang
Yes, it seems very strange that they could not shut down completely. I'm no expert on these matters, but surely they have to be able to do a more complete and stable shutdown just for things like refueling?
I wonder whether the quake did not do some internal damage that prevented some fuel or damping rods from activating.
It takes time to go from full production to shut down temperature. You can completely SCRAM a reactor and the daughter products from the main reaction will keep popping off particles for quite a while.
| 192 |
sagehen Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:44:28pm |
re: #186 mracb
Make the generators safe from tsunami and things should work out. The tsunami took out the backup generators. That was a predictable is preventable issue with those reactors built on the ocean in earthquake area and known for large tsunami. It should have been planned for better. Risk management should have identified that long ago.
About 40 years ago, my class took a field trip to San Onofre. They told us nuclear power was absolutely guaranteed safe, there's never been a fatal accident at a nuclear power plant, never been any radiation getting out into the world, couldn't possibly ever happen (I'm sure they've changed the spiel since then, if they even still do class field trips), it could withstand earthquakes or plane crashes or anything that could ever ever happen. I was young enough to believe them.
That being said, please take note that the reactor core is cooled with circulating sea water, the beaches nearby are popular due to being significantly warmer than the entire rest of the Pacific Ocean. Surfers comes from miles around to enjoy the warm nuclear waters, where you don't need a wetsuit and there aren't any fish. And I'm sure it's entirely coincidental that the researchers at Scripps Oceanography, a few miles downcurrent, have discovered in their tidepools any number of marvelous new mutations in their starfish and crabs and anemones.
| 193 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:45:03pm |
| 194 |
Big Joe Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:46:38pm |
re: #189 Naso Tang
Yes, it seems very strange that they could not shut down completely. I'm no expert on these matters, but surely they have to be able to do a more complete and stable shutdown just for things like refueling?
I wonder whether the quake did not do some internal damage that prevented some fuel or damping rods from activating.
They shutdown completely, they pushed the control rods in and cut the fission reaction. but the reactor is still really hot. They lost power from the grid and the generators cut in but then the tsunami took out the generators. That took out the cooling water pumps. water levels dropped as the water boiled and turned to steam, exposing about one third of the core. The steam pressure had to be vented out to the outer containment room. Lots of hydrogen gas in the outer room ignited and blew the top off it. That is my understanding of the events. Anybody correct me on that?
| 195 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:47:10pm |
re: #192 sagehen
I believe there are designs that are inherently fail safe, although I don't recall the details right now.
| 196 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:47:45pm |
re: #191 goddamnedfrank
It takes time to go from full production to shut down temperature. You can completely SCRAM a reactor and the daughter products from the main reaction will keep popping off particles for quite a while.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that from the git-go, they lost all power and any emergency power, and there for they couldn't control/activate/turn on etc. anything to help them shut down safely?
| 197 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:50:37pm |
re: #196 Walter L. Newton
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that from the git-go, they lost all power and any emergency power, and there for they couldn't control/activate/turn on etc. anything to help them shut down safely?
I read that they did have an automatic shutdown, and that they had battery backup for that purpose, but that would not have been enough to run ongoing cooling as well.
I wonder if they designed for a 9.0 quake and if there wasn't other relevant quake damage that we haven't heard about (aside from tsunami).
| 198 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:50:40pm |
re: #186 mracb
Make the generators safe from tsunami and things should work out. The tsunami took out the backup generators. That was a predictable is preventable issue with those reactors built on the ocean in earthquake area and known for large tsunami. It should have been planned for better. Risk management should have identified that long ago.
I'd like a solution that doesn't rely on regular fuel deliveries and traditional batteries area joke. I'd prefer two on site RTG's designed to meet or exceed the rated power need for at least twenty years.
| 199 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:51:24pm |
Always campaigning . . .?
West Virginia Democrat Joe Manchin Goes Rogue
""Now, I may be just a freshman senator, but I'll be blunt — this whole process does not make a lot of sense to me," he said. "And I'm afraid it doesn't make sense to a lot of West Virginians, or a lot of our fellow Americans."
Manchin spoke shortly before the Senate voted on rival bills to keep the government in business. One, passed by House Republicans, chopped $61 billion from federal programs over the next six months, what Democrats called the meat-ax approach to austerity; the Democrats proposed far more modest cuts. Everyone, including Manchin, knew in advance that both measures would be rejected. But Congress, he said, can't break this stalemate.
"This debate, as important as it is, will not be decided by House Republicans or by Senate Democrats negotiating with each other — or past each other," Manchin said. "The debate will be decided when the president leads these tough negotiations. And right now, that's not happening."
Later, in an interview, Manchin explained his presidential tongue-lashing.
"As the governor, I had to put budgets together," he said. "You have to basically sit down with the parameters and put your priorities in what we believe. And that's all I'm asking."
| 200 |
quiet reader Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:52:29pm |
re: #194 mracb
There was another backup system that was to use coolant to spin steam turbines that would generate electricity to power pumps, obviously that system also failed to work.
| 202 |
Big Joe Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:53:07pm |
re: #198 goddamnedfrank
I'd like a solution that doesn't rely on regular fuel deliveries and traditional batteries area joke. I'd prefer two on site RTG's designed to meet or exceed the rated power need for at least twenty years.
Yeh, I'd like one for my home too. Personal home nukes, or some sort of sealed plutonium battery. We could make lots from our supply of weapons.
| 204 |
goddamnedfrank Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:54:11pm |
re: #196 Walter L. Newton
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that from the git-go, they lost all power and any emergency power, and there for they couldn't control/activate/turn on etc. anything to help them shut down safely?
No, they shut down immediately once the earthquake hit. Then the tsunami killed the backup generators, and the batteries only had so much capacity.
| 205 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:54:41pm |
I've heard "diet, diet, diet" for so long, I don't know what to believe . . .
Study: Diet May Help ADHD Kids More Than Drugs
According to Pelsser, 64 percent of children diagnosed with ADHD are actually experiencing a hypersensitivity to food. Researchers determined that by starting kids on a very elaborate diet, then restricting it over a few weeks' time.
"It's only five weeks," Pelsser says. "If it is the diet, then we start to find out which foods are causing the problems."
Teachers and doctors who worked with children in the study reported marked changes in behavior. "In fact, they were flabbergasted," Pelsser says.
"After the diet, they were just normal children with normal behavior," she says. No longer were they easily distracted or forgetful, and the temper tantrums subsided.
| 206 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:55:12pm |
re: #199 ggt
Remember, WVa was a supposedly Democratic state... many of whose citizens didn't want to vote for Obama in 2008.
| 207 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:55:21pm |
re: #202 mracb
Yeh, I'd like one for my home too. Personal home nukes, or some sort of sealed plutonium battery. We could make lots from our supply of weapons.
Could double as a home generator?
| 208 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:55:52pm |
re: #206 freetoken
Remember, WVa was a supposedly Democratic state... many of whose citizens didn't want to vote for Obama in 2008.
Didn't Obama lose WVA?
| 210 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Mar 13, 2011 9:56:28pm |
| 211 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:00:23pm |
Maya Angelou wrote about her "Russian perid", and I went thru one too. Does every avid reader?
Returning To Hemingway: The Books We Come Back To And The Books We Forget
But I also think of it as my "Russian period," the only time in my life I could immerse myself for hours in the world of Russian novels with complete abandon. I charged through Dostoeyevsky: Crime and Punishment, The Brothers Karamazov, The Idiot. I got lost in Anna Karenina and even accomplished that great literary feat: reading all of War and Peace. I loved them all. And yet, if you asked me today to tell you the details of their plots or name their major characters, I would be at a loss. The truth is, I need to read them again.
. . . .
A while back on this site, we wrote about our Shelf Of Constant Reproach, those books we all think we should have read, but are ashamed to admit we haven't. Well, here's a whole new challenge: What are the books you've already read, but feel you need to return to someday? And what books were better, or worse, the second time around?
| 213 |
Big Joe Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:01:14pm |
RTGs are Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generators, mini nuke heat generators that are buried in a bunker for their life and they power a neighborhood steam generator. They are a very safe design that needs no maintenance and work for about 20 years. Here's wiki on it...
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 214 |
McSpiff Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:01:21pm |
re: #195 Naso Tang
I believe there are designs that are inherently fail safe, although I don't recall the details right now.
I believe the CANDU and other similar heavy water designs can handle this type of situation better... from wiki:
The large thermal mass of the moderator provides a significant heat sink that acts as an additional safety feature. If a fuel assembly were to overheat and deform within its fuel channel, the resulting change of geometry permits high heat transfer to the cool moderator, thus preventing the breach of the fuel channel, and the possibility of a meltdown. Furthermore, because of the use of natural uranium as fuel, this reactor cannot sustain a chain reaction if its original fuel channel geometry is altered in any significant manner.
| 215 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:02:46pm |
i just had a shock - saw the front page and an advert for something LuapDnar is hawking was staring me down.........
| 216 |
abolitionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:03:46pm |
re: #197 Naso Tang
I read that they did have an automatic shutdown, and that they had battery backup for that purpose, but that would not have been enough to run ongoing cooling as well.
I wonder if they designed for a 9.0 quake and if there wasn't other relevant quake damage that we haven't heard about (aside from tsunami).
Some shocking details here: At two reactors, a race to contain meltdowns
Guess where the pool of spent fuel rods was. ABOVE the reactor. Yikes.
[snip] fears mounted about the threat posed by the pools of water where years of spent fuel rods are stored.At the 40-year-old Fukushima Daiichi unit 1, where an explosion Saturday destroyed a building housing the reactor, the spent fuel pool, in accordance with General Electric’s design, is placed above the reactor. Tokyo Electric said it was trying to figure out how to maintain water levels in the pools, indicating that the normal safety systems there had failed, too. Failure to keep adequate water levels in a pool would lead to a catastrophic fire, said nuclear experts, some of whom think that unit 1’s pool may now be outside.
“That would be like Chernobyl on steroids,” said Arnie Gundersen, a nuclear engineer at Fairewinds Associates and a member of the public oversight panel for the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant, which is identical to the Fukushima Daiichi unit 1.
[snip]
The Kyodo News Agency cited Tokyo Electric as saying that more than three yards of a mox nuclear-fuel rod had been left above the water level, raising concerns that bits of plutonium or its byproducts may already be mixed into vapors or molten material.
| 217 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:17:02pm |
So, did you folks from outside the Bay Area see the coverage of the kid who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived?
| 218 |
Big Joe Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:19:34pm |
re: #217 SanFranciscoZionist
So, did you folks from outside the Bay Area see the coverage of the kid who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived?
hah, I haven't seen it yet but I heard the interviews on the radio. I've jumped from more than 100 feet once. I won't do that again.
| 219 |
abolitionist Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:21:03pm |
re: #218 mracb
hah, I haven't seen it yet but I heard the interviews on the radio. I've jumped from more than 100 feet once. I won't do that again.
The phrase hard water has a special meaning for you, huh?
| 220 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:21:42pm |
As expected, the Nikkei dropped like a rock today:
[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]
Lost productivity in the major export industries (autos, electronics) is driving the share sell off.
| 221 |
Big Joe Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:23:05pm |
re: #219 abolitionist
The phrase hard water has a special meaning for you, huh?
Even with shoes on my feet hurt. I had a lot of time to regret stepping off the train bridge on my way down.
| 222 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:25:44pm |
been up all night chatting with the girlfriend.
5:30am here, 00:30 there.
*sigh*
| 224 |
Wozza Matter? Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:26:12pm |
re: #222 wozzablog
been up all night chatting with the girlfriend.
5:30am here, 00:30 there.
*sigh*
by which i mean g'night.
| 225 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:27:12pm |
re: #217 SanFranciscoZionist
So, did you folks from outside the Bay Area see the coverage of the kid who jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge and survived?
I heard about it from someone, that's about it.
| 226 |
ProGunLiberal Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:27:56pm |
re: #224 wozzablog
One of you needs to move to the other, or to some third location. :)
| 227 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Mar 13, 2011 10:43:05pm |
Night all. And a bit of King Crimson as a nightcap.
| 230 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 13, 2011 11:36:42pm |
So I'm watching the nuclear plant crisis and the first thing that comes to mind is "STALKER: Shadow of Fukushima."
Equipment must be liberally sprinkled with Hello Kitty and other stickers. Anime rules dictate that the LESS body armor one wears, the MORE armored they actually are.
Mutants include tentacle monsters (sea life washed in by the tsunami, mutated by theradiation). Possible superpowers include improved item and weapon storage in hammerspace.
/yeah, i'm not being very hopeful about the whole thing.
| 231 |
boxhead Sun, Mar 13, 2011 11:42:10pm |
re: #230 laZardo
/yeah, i'm not being very hopeful about the whole thing.
/must be a function of time.....
but.... damn.... I am thinking any of the older nukes should be replaced with the newer models ASAP.
/but oh no, we can't do that here... it is like we can't do any damn thing for our Country.
*very loud grumbles*
| 232 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 13, 2011 11:55:49pm |
re: #231 boxhead
I'm averse to the idea of any nuclear power built on the Ring of Fire, to be honest. It's hard making preparations for "the inevitable" when you have something like this inevitably happening.
| 233 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 13, 2011 11:57:51pm |
Vid posted of the water coming in near the port in Sendai.
All those little boxes of something - food?
| 234 |
boxhead Sun, Mar 13, 2011 11:58:53pm |
re: #232 laZardo
I'm averse to the idea of any nuclear power built on the Ring of Fire, to be honest. It's hard making preparations for "the inevitable" when you have something like this inevitably happening.
yeah... that makes sense...
But I'd like to see it modern nukes built in non earthquake zones along the coast with desalinization plants tethered to them. We need more potable water and that takes power.
| 235 |
Kronocide Mon, Mar 14, 2011 12:21:14am |
re: #233 freetoken
Yeah, that looks like a corner grocery store. It is amazing all that water, energy moving through.
| 236 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 12:31:45am |
re: #235 BigPapa
It looks like a warehouse was being emptied out.
Here is a video from Kesennume, of the approaching water and the move to higher floors. The guy shooting this is saying on the phone "a bit of a tsunami... I'm fine..." . A definite understatement:
| 237 |
Eclectic Infidel Mon, Mar 14, 2011 12:37:12am |
Anti-Israel trolls appear late in the thread here.
| 238 |
Kronocide Mon, Mar 14, 2011 1:01:01am |
re: #236 freetoken
It looks like a warehouse was being emptied out.
Here is a video from Kesennume, of the approaching water and the move to higher floors. The guy shooting this is saying on the phone "a bit of a tsunami... I'm fine..." . A definite understatement:
Yah, could be a warehouse.
I can imagine underestimating it since it starts out so slow and not too bad, but it keeps coming, and coming, and coming... then it maintains that level for a while. Amazing.
| 239 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 1:07:56am |
re: #238 BigPapa
Yeah, the guy ended up on the roof and the water was had reached the floor just below him, at peak.
There are smaller towns too from which video is now coming in... Here is what is left of Otsuchi, in Iwate Prefecture:
And here is what it used to look like:
[Link: maps.google.com...]
| 240 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 1:16:43am |
Back in Kesennume, here back on top of the large building (I believe it was a hospital) with all those people, a couple of hours after the tsunami hit and the water is receding... portions of the city were consumed with fire, which starts off in the distance. About a half hour later, just after sunset, the burning material and oil comes floating by - creepy:
| 241 |
boxhead Mon, Mar 14, 2011 1:34:21am |
I have become saturated with this. Kind of a helpless feeling wishing I could do some something concrete to help.... arrrrrr
Of course we can talk about the defunding of the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii.
/
| 242 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 1:35:16am |
re: #241 boxhead
As more people are rescued I expect more first hand ground videos to come on Youtube.
| 243 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 1:53:06am |
re: #241 boxhead
I guess I've become numb from all of it...
Anyway, here is another video, this one from the town of Ofunato. Starting at about 1:00 in, before they roll the actual footage they show a map of where the camera was located. The cameraman started shooting before the tsunami, and zoomed in on some moored boats to show the usual high water mark. As the water comes in he has to move up his little hill... and then they also show what happened as the water returned to the sea:
| 244 |
boxhead Mon, Mar 14, 2011 2:13:29am |
re: #242 freetoken
As more people are rescued I expect more first hand ground videos to come on Youtube.
some are pretty sad.... we are just lint compared to mother earth... humbling to say the least.
| 245 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 2:37:18am |
re: #244 boxhead
No kidding.
Here is a vid just posted, from what appears to be shot by a JDF person as he walks down a street, somewhere near Sendai I think:
| 247 |
steve Mon, Mar 14, 2011 3:14:01am |
Wow, nice relaxing video for my 0300 break. Lost power to several buildings and have been working since 1730 to get them back up. No simple task. Needed that bit of relaxation(sp) before going back to work.
| 249 |
researchok Mon, Mar 14, 2011 3:31:48am |
re: #233 freetoken
Vid posted of the water coming in near the port in Sendai.
[Video]All those little boxes of something - food?
Incredible video.
| 250 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 3:54:46am |
Medvedev officially made Kaddafi persona non grata.
| 251 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 3:56:27am |
I love daylight savings time when it starts to get dark later. But, I forget about waking up at six fifteen AM and it is still "darker than the inside of a cow, second stomach" outside.
| 252 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 3:58:52am |
I grew up in Indiana and Arizona, two states where they do not do Daylight Savings. I find it an abomination unto the Lord.
| 253 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:01:08am |
re: #252 ralphieboy
I grew up in Indiana and Arizona, two states where they do not do Daylight Savings. I find it an abomination unto the Lord.
Heh. Russia won't do the daylight savings starting this year.
| 255 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:02:15am |
From about 25 minutes ago:
BREAKING NEWS: Fuel rods at No. 2 reactor of Fukushima No. 1 nuke plant partially exposed
So unit 2 joins unit 1 in this manner. And unit 3 is ?
| 256 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:03:12am |
re: #252 ralphieboy
Note I said "when it starts to get dark later".
I don't have a clue why they'd ever want it to get dark earlier.
Saving on candles, my ass.
| 257 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:07:26am |
re: #256 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
In Arizona they simply start work earlier: offices work 7am-4pm and construction crews work from 5am-2pm.
Also, there is not that great a difference between winter and summer daylight that far south.
| 258 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:09:40am |
re: #252 ralphieboy
You purposefully sought out states to grow up in that did not have DST?
| 259 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:10:16am |
re: #252 ralphieboy
I grew up in Indiana and Arizona, two states where they do not do Daylight Savings. I find it an abomination unto the Lord.
Indiana instituted DST in 2005 (or '06?). You would have thought that the Gov had proposed slaughtering goats on the circle in a witchcraft ceremony the way people flipped out. The only problem I have with it is we should be on central time not eastern.
| 260 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:15:24am |
re: #258 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I think it was the Grace of God trying to spare me the abomination. I left Indiana in 1978, nearly two decades before it succumbed to the temptations of DST (Dark Satan Triumphs).
And especially as there is no school in summer months and America hasalmost nothing in the way of regulated shop opening hours or similar legislation, it would be easy enough to just adapt local working and opening hours to fit local conditions.
| 261 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:15:35am |
First batch of BoA docs is released.
| 262 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:17:35am |
| 263 |
laZardo Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:18:00am |
re: #250 Sergey Romanov
Medvedev officially made Kaddafi persona non grata.
I'm sure he might reconsider after Kaddafi puts those rebels down.
/which, unfortunately, could happen. :C
| 264 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:18:23am |
[Link: bankofamericasuck.com...]
| 265 |
laZardo Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:19:15am |
re: #255 freetoken
From about 25 minutes ago:
BREAKING NEWS: Fuel rods at No. 2 reactor of Fukushima No. 1 nuke plant partially exposed
So unit 2 joins unit 1 in this manner. And unit 3 is ?
| 266 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:19:17am |
re: #241 boxhead
I have become saturated with this. Kind of a helpless feeling wishing I could do some something concrete to help... arrr
Of course we can talk about the defunding of the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii.
/
The president proposed spending $5.4 billion on NOAA which included $1.1 Billion in new satellite programs. The repubs countered by removing the $1.1 satellite funding from the presidents request which leaves all the current NOAA projects/responsibilities fully funded at $4.3 Billion. There are currently zero tsunami centers that are being targeted/defunded.
| 267 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:19:36am |
re: #263 laZardo
I'm sure he might reconsider after Kaddafi puts those rebels down.
/which, unfortunately, could happen. :C
No, in such a case he will simply be a pariah without many travel routes.
| 268 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:20:11am |
| 269 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:21:25am |
| 271 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:25:30am |
re: #268 RogueOne
Anything interesting in them?
It looks like much of correspondence is with a former Balboa Insurance employee(which used to be owned by the bank) who is sharing information about improper mortgage processes the bank had in place.
| 272 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:26:20am |
It seems like the actual internal emails in the Anonymous release are between Balboa Insurance employees and BofA employees, but tough to tell if there’s anything truly damning in the e-mails.The informant tells Anonymous that he has emails revealing BofA’s order to mismatch loan numbers from their documents in order to foreclose on homeowners.
Forbes
| 273 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:27:51am |
re: #265 laZardo
Arrgh....
Osaka's most famous landmark... had a sweet little date once that included watching the sunset from the top of that thing.
| 274 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:36:25am |
re: #271 Sergey Romanov
That doesn't surprise me. They were all playing fast and loose with the foreclosure rules.
| 275 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:42:38am |
re: #266 RogueOne
The president proposed spending $5.4 billion on NOAA which included $1.1 Billion in new satellite programs. The repubs countered by removing the $1.1 satellite funding from the presidents request which leaves all the current NOAA projects/responsibilities fully funded at $4.3 Billion. There are currently zero tsunami centers that are being targeted/defunded.
You and you facts!//
Good Morning Lizards!
| 276 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:42:48am |
I think the big unanswered question is who is the Japanese equivalent to Alan Jackson? Do they have a vibrant country/folk music scene? Who is going to write the inevitable remembrance song?
| 277 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:45:21am |
re: #275 rwdflynavy
You and you facts!//
Good Morning Lizards!
I heard Bill Maher trying to float the same "closing tsunami centers" stuff this weekend. He was on a roll, I'll let someone else deal with his views on a certain religion.
| 278 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:48:41am |
re: #277 RogueOne
Sorta like the story about how Fox Nation picked up a parody story on an Islamic Council in Pakistan banning padded bras:
[Link: www.salon.com...]
and repeated it as if it were true.
But it confirms a certain preconceived notion, the rants are already there and ready to spew, all they need is a story, no matter how spurious (and easily followed up on) to set them rolling.
| 279 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:50:04am |
re: #266 RogueOne
Dude, why do you insist on posting that again when I gave you the actual context to that yesterday? Your explanation is a disingenuous one.
The GOP’s bill would tear $1.2 billion (21 percent) out of the president’s proposed budget for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, or NOAA. On the surface, cutting NOAA may seem like an obvious choice. The FY 2011 request for the agency included a 16 percent boost over 2010 levels that would have made this year’s funding level of $5.5 billion the largest in NOAA’s history.
Even this total funding level, however, is woefully insufficient for an agency tasked with managing such fundamental resources as the atmosphere that regulates our climate, the 4.3 million square miles of our oceanic exclusive economic zone, the ecological health of coastal regions that are home to more than 50 percent of all Americans, response to environmental catastrophes including the Deepwater Horizon oil spill, and fisheries that employ thousands of Americans and annually contribute tens of billions of dollars to the national economy.
More than $700 million of the president’s proposed 2011 increase in NOAA funding would be tagged for overhauling our nation’s aging environmental satellite infrastructure. Satellites gather key data about our oceans and atmosphere, including cloud cover and density, miniscule changes in ocean surface elevation and temperatures, and wind and current trajectories. Such monitoring is integral to our weather and climate forecasting and it plays a key role in projections of strength and tracking of major storms and hurricanes—things most Americans feel are worth keeping an eye on.
With the amount the GOP wants to cut from the necessary spending, our predictive ability is going to degrade. That's the reality.
| 280 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:51:24am |
And again:
The $700 billion maritime commerce industry moves more than 90 percent of all global trade, with arrival and departure of quarter-mile long container ships timed to the minute to maximize revenue and efficiency. Shipping companies rely on accurate forecasts to set their manifests and itineraries.
Forecasting capabilities are particularly strained at high latitudes and shippers have estimated that the loss of satellite monitoring capabilities could cost them more than half a billion dollars per year in lost cargo and damage to vessels from unanticipated heavy weather.
When a hurricane makes landfall, evacuations cost as much as $1 million per mile. Over the past decade, NOAA has halved the average margin of error in its three-day forecasts from 250 miles to 125 miles, saving up to $125 million per storm.
Commercial fishing is the most dangerous profession in the country with 111.8 deaths per 100,000 workers. A fisherman’s most valuable piece of safety equipment is his weather radio.
When disaster strikes at sea, polar-orbiting satellites receive emergency distress beacons and relay positioning data to rescuers. This resulted in 295 lives saved in 2010 alone and the rescue of more than 6,500 fishermen, recreational boaters, and other maritime transportation workers since the program began in 1982.Farmers rely on NOAA’s drought predictions to determine planting cycles. Drought forecasts informed directly by satellite data have been valued at $6 billion to 8 billion annually.
NOAA’s volcanic ash forecasting capabilities received international attention last spring during the eruption of the Icelandic volcano, Eyjafjallajökull. The service saves airlines upwards of $200 million per year.
NOAA’s polar-orbiting satellites are America’s only source of weather and climate data for vast areas of the globe, including areas key to overseas military operations. Their data are integral to planning deployments of troops and aircraft—certain high-atmosphere wind conditions, for example, can prohibit mid-air refueling operations.
So here’s the choice: Spend $700 million this year for continuous service or $2 billion to $3.5 billion at some point in the future for the same equipment and a guaranteed service interruption.
The choice is between cheaper and more expensive. I'd rather do things the cheaper way. I have no idea why supposed fiscal conservatives prefer to do things the more expensive way.
| 281 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:52:45am |
re: #279 Obdicut
The NOAA says the number is $1.1 Billion for the satellite program and the repub offer is $4.3 billion. $5.4 - $1.1 = $4.3
This isn't hard.
| 282 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:53:04am |
re: #280 Obdicut
And again:
The choice is between cheaper and more expensive. I'd rather do things the cheaper way. I have no idea why supposed fiscal conservatives prefer to do things the more expensive way.
Because they like to think in terms of "running the country like a business", and business decisions are determined by the short-term bottom line and maximum benefits to shareholders, not long-term benefits to the general public.
| 283 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:54:02am |
re: #281 RogueOne
Sure, it's not hard. It's also not really hard to see those numbers don't tell the actual story, whereas a more detailed look, like I posted above, does. If we make this cut from the budget, we're going to wind up paying more money down the road. It's penny-wise and dollar-foolish, like so many things the GOP proposes.
| 284 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:56:00am |
re: #282 ralphieboy
Most businesses have a little bit more long-sight than this, though, even though they're short-term profit driven. Only the most risk-loving companies will endorse a plan that involves an immediate savings of 700 million but a projected cost of 3 to 5 billion.
It's not just that the GOP wants the government run like a business, it's that they want it run as a short-sighted business. It's like a caricature of what good companies are like.
| 285 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:56:16am |
re: #280 Obdicut
Their contention is that the satellites will have to be replaced eventually and it's cheaper to do it now rather than later, an assertion with nothing to back it up. Those numbers ($2 - $3.5 B) are pulled straight out of their ass. Eventually I'm going to need to replace my truck but that doesn't justify my borrowing money I don't have to spend to do it now when it isn't needed.
| 286 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:57:55am |
re: #277 RogueOne
I heard Bill Maher trying to float the same "closing tsunami centers" stuff this weekend. He was on a roll, I'll let someone else deal with his views on a certain religion.
Maher is usually an equal opportunity offender when it comes to religions. He was a bit over the top in that segment (hate on every page in Quran, yeah, as if).
| 287 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:58:03am |
re: #285 RogueOne
Their contention is that the satellites will have to be replaced eventually and it's cheaper to do it now rather than later, an assertion with nothing to back it up.
Great. So you do think that the scientists are lying.
The numbers are, in fact, detailed in what I wrote. Not pulled out of an ass.
Eventually I'm going to need to replace my truck but that doesn't justify my borrowing money I don't have to spend to do it now when it isn't needed.
So you, Rogue, claim that you know better when climate-monitoring satellites need to be replaced than scientists. Why do you think this?
| 288 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 4:58:38am |
re: #285 RogueOne
one more thing. They repeat there will be an 18 month interruption without making it clear that it won't be an interruption in satellite coverage but in the plan to put new satellites in orbit. The satellite program is an 18 month plan from start to orbit.
| 289 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:03:31am |
re: #287 Obdicut
Great. So you do think that the scientists are lying.
he numbers are, in fact, detailed in what I wrote. Not pulled out of an ass.
So you, Rogue, claim that you know better when climate-monitoring satellites need to be replaced than scientists. Why do you think this?
No, those numbers are pulled out of their ass. It's a guess at how much more it might cost if the program is delayed. They don't have anything to back those numbers up other than their contention that things get more expensive in the future.
The new satellites are probably very nice and I'm sure they are an upgrade to the current systems. I believe they're an upgrade because the NOAA says they are. No one is suggesting the current system is running the risk of falling into the ocean....no one but the writers at climate progress I guess.
I assume you would agree that none of this argument has anything to do with tsunami warning centers. Even without the new satellites their funding is not being cut.
| 290 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:05:11am |
re: #289 RogueOne
No one is suggesting the current system is running the risk of falling into the ocean...no one but the writers at climate progress I guess.
What are you talking about? You're saying that the satellites aren't actually reaching the end of their life cycle?
Nice hyperbole on 'falling into the ocean', by the way. Always a sign of a strong argument.
| 291 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:06:22am |
From the horses mouth:
[Link: www.nesdis.noaa.gov...]
The president's FY 2011 budget request reflects the recent White House decision to improve federal management for the nation's next generation of polar orbiting satellite by restructuring the management of the program. The FY 2011 budget includes $1.1 billion in the NOAA budget for NOAA's portion of the program, the new Joint Polar Satellite System (JPSS).
That $1.1 is what has been cut by the repubs.
| 292 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:07:10am |
re: #290 Obdicut
What are you talking about? You're saying that the satellites aren't actually reaching the end of their life cycle?
Nice hyperbole on 'falling into the ocean', by the way. Always a sign of a strong argument.
We're all reaching the end of our life cycles.
| 293 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:07:29am |
re: #291 RogueOne
The word 'improve' their modified 'federal management', Rogue. What do you think you're proving with that quote, exactly?
| 294 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:09:41am |
re: #293 Obdicut
The word 'improve' their modified 'federal management', Rogue. What do you think you're proving with that quote, exactly?
A.) That tsunami warning centers are not being cut.
B.) That the new satellite program is not a replacement but an upgrade.
Are you willing to admit that the argument is over the need of the new satellite program and has nothing to do with the tsunami warning centers?
| 295 |
Sionainn Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:14:52am |
re: #282 ralphieboy
Because they like to think in terms of "running the country like a business", and business decisions are determined by the short-term bottom line and maximum benefits to shareholders, not long-term benefits to the general public.
Smart successful businesses run their businesses thinking in the long-term. Too bad smart is in short supply these days.
| 296 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:15:15am |
re: #294 RogueOne
A.) That tsunami warning centers are not being cut.
What does a tsunami warning center look like, Rogue? What do you think they depend on?
B.) That the new satellite program is not a replacement but an upgrade.
That quote doesn't make any commentary on that whatsoever. Why on earth do you think it does?
Furthermore, what the hell does whether the program is a replacement or an upgrade (it's both, since the satellites are reaching the end of life, and the new ones will give us better predictive capacity) matter?
| 297 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:21:43am |
re: #296 Obdicut
So you're unwilling to admit that even without the new satellite program our forecast/warning systems will remain funded at exactly the rate the president requested.
More straight from the NOAA:
Data and imagery obtained from the JPSS will increase timeliness, accuracy, and cost-effectiveness of public warnings and forecasts of climate and weather events, thus reducing the potential loss of human life and property and advancing the national economy.
It's an upgrade to our current system. I'm sure an upgrade would be nice but my argument is we are running over a $1.5 Trillion annual deficit and we need to focus on actual needs not wants.
| 298 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:26:16am |
re: #297 RogueOne
So you're unwilling to admit that even without the new satellite program our forecast/warning systems will remain funded at exactly the rate the president requested.
No, because that's not true. why are you saying it is? You're admitting the White House proposed that 1.1 billion that the GOP is cutting, right?
It's an upgrade to our current system. I'm sure an upgrade would be nice but my argument is we are running over a $1.5 Trillion annual deficit and we need to focus on actual needs not wants.
Again, the sattellites really are reaching the end of their useful lives. They are going to start failing. When they do fail, you can't just chuck one up there in an afternoon. Your bizarre claim that you know better than scientists on this one is crazypants.
Even if it were an upgrade, it's for a useful service, as I provided above-- if it could be shown that that expenditure would save more money, then it would still make fiscal sense. That would make this an actual need: anytime you can do something in a cheaper way, or save money by doing it, that's a wise fiscal choice.
Setting ourselves up for spending more money down the road is going to add to the deficit. Not doing this satellites now is going to add to the deficit.
Penny-wise and dollar-foolish: it's what passes as fiscal conservatism these days.
| 299 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:27:50am |
BREAKING NEWS: Fuel rods at No. 2 reactor of Fukushima No. 1 nuke plant partially exposed
Fuel rods at the quake-hit Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant's No. 2 reactor were fully exposed at one point after its cooling functions failed, the plant operator said Monday, indicating the critical situation of the reactor's core beginning to melt due to overheating.[...]
| 300 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:29:06am |
re: #295 Sionainn
and bad businesses are allowed to go bankrupt - unlesss they are too big to fail...
| 301 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:29:54am |
I'm so depressed. Japan in a shambles, a family murdered in Israel. There were some crises here at work but I fixed them. Should be happy but it is so insignificant in the scheme of things.
| 302 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:30:06am |
JPSS:
Is a national priority – essential for meeting both civil and military weather-forecasting, storm tracking, and climate-monitoring requirements
Will provide next generation polar-orbiting operational environmental satellite capability
Will be procured by NOAA, through NASA, as it does with its GOES-R program
Will be used by the National Weather Service in models for long-term weather forecasting
Will allow scientists and forecasters to monitor and predict weather patterns with greater speed and accuracy
Is key for continuity of long-standing climate measurements, allowing study of long-term climate trends
Will improve and extend climate measurements for 30 different Environmental Data Records of the atmosphere, land, ocean, climate, and space environment
| 303 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:34:28am |
re: #298 Obdicut
Penny-wise and dollar-foolish: it's what passes as fiscal conservatism these days.
That about sums it up.
| 304 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:34:31am |
re: #298 Obdicut
No, because that's not true. why are you saying it is? You're admitting the White House proposed that 1.1 billion that the GOP is cutting, right?
$5.4 Billion - $1.1 Billion for new satellites = $4.3 Billion which is the total the repubs came up with. You can't argue with the numbers. Funding for everything the NOAA does, minus the new satellite program, is not being cut.
Again, the sattellites really are reaching the end of their useful lives. They are going to start failing. When they do fail, you can't just chuck one up there in an afternoon. Your bizarre claim that you know better than scientists on this one is crazypants.
Find me the contention from anywhere that we're about to lose satellite coverage.
Even if it were an upgrade, it's for a useful service, as I provided above-- if it could be shown that that expenditure would save more money, then it would still make fiscal sense. That would make this an actual need: anytime you can do something in a cheaper way, or save money by doing it, that's a wise fiscal choice.Setting ourselves up for spending more money down the road is going to add to the deficit. Not doing this satellites now is going to add to the deficit.
Penny-wise and dollar-foolish: it's what passes as fiscal conservatism these days.
A.) Everything is moving closer to the end of its useful service. Does that mean we need to go ahead and replace every piece of federal equipment since it would be cheaper to do it now rather than later?
B.) Back up those numbers ($2 to $3.5 billion) they toss out or admit they pulled them out of thin air based on the belief that everything gets more expensive over time.
| 305 |
laZardo Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:36:47am |
re: #301 Alouette
I'm so depressed. Japan in a shambles, a family murdered in Israel. There were some crises here at work but I fixed them. Should be happy but it is so insignificant in the scheme of things.
Look on the bright side. EVERYTHING is equally insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
/yeah, i'm not good at cheering people up either
| 306 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:38:02am |
re: #302 freetoken
I'm sure the new satellites are probably a very nice upgrade to our current models (probably come with cruise control) but unless someone can justify borrowing $15 billion for a want (since we can't afford to pay for it ourselves) I'm having a hard time getting around the fact that we're broke.
I'm still waiting for someone to admit that this argument is about a new satellite program and has nothing to do with funding current NOAA responsibilities.
| 307 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:38:53am |
I don't think there could ever be a tsunami on the Great Lakes. I could be wrong, though.
| 308 |
Sionainn Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:39:18am |
re: #304 RogueOne
B.) Back up those numbers ($2 to $3.5 billion) they toss out or admit they pulled them out of thin air based on the belief that everything gets more expensive over time.
When one is talking about newer better satellites, it's common sense that they are going to cost more later. It's always that way with new technology for systems such as those that aren't going to be mass produced on a large scale. It's not just a "belief," but rather a fact.
| 309 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:40:00am |
re: #304 RogueOne
$5.4 Billion - $1.1 Billion for new satellites = $4.3 Billion which is the total the repubs came up with. You can't argue with the numbers. Funding for everything the NOAA does, minus the new satellite program, is not being cut.
Except that cutting the satellite program is stupid, given that the ones we currently have are aging and will need to be upgraded and/or replaced at some point. Why not fund it now? It makes no sense. And arguing that we can't afford it is asinine. Let the Republicans cut an obsolete weapons system or bloated defense contract instead of something that's actually useful.
| 310 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:40:51am |
re: #307 Alouette
I don't think there could ever be a tsunami on the Great Lakes. I could be wrong, though.
| 311 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:41:07am |
re: #307 Alouette
Ever seen me jump into a lake?
| 312 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:41:40am |
re: #307 Alouette
I don't think there could ever be a tsunami on the Great Lakes. I could be wrong, though.
Big meteor/asteroid hit in the middle would make huge waves.
Not sure but I think if there was an earthquake under them and in the right place it could make waves too.
| 313 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:41:55am |
re: #304 RogueOne
The Future of Polar-orbiting Satellites:
On May 5, 1994, President Clinton made the landmark decision to merge the nation's military and civil operational meteorological satellite systems into a single, national system capable of satisfying both civil and national security requirements for space-based remotely sensed environmental data. Convergence of these programs is the most significant change in U.S. operational remote sensing since the launch of the first weather satellite in April 1960.
[...]The President’s FY2011 budget takes significant new steps. The White House has announced that NOAA and the Air Force will no longer continue to jointly procure the polar-orbiting satellite system called NPOESS. This decision is in the best interest of the American public to preserve critical operational weather and climate observations into the future.
The three agencies (DOD, NOAA and NASA) have and will continue to partner to ensure a successful way forward for the respective programs, while utilizing international partnerships to sustain and enhance weather and climate observation from space.
The major challenge of NPOESS was jointly executing the program between three agencies of different size with divergent objectives and different acquisition procedures. The new system will resolve this challenge by splitting the procurements. NOAA and NASA will take primary responsibility for the afternoon orbit, and DOD will take primary responsibility for the morning orbit. The agencies will continue to partner in those areas that have been successful in the past, such as a shared ground system. The restructured programs will also eliminate the NPOESS tri-agency structure that that has made management and oversight difficult, contributing to the poor performance of the program.
NOAA and the Air Force have already begun to move into a transition period during which the current joint procurement will end. A detailed plan for this transition period will be available in a few weeks. The agencies will continue a successful relationship that that they have developed for their polar and geostationary satellite programs to date. NOAA’s portion will notionally be named the “Joint Polar Satellite System” (JPSS) and will consist of platforms based on the NPOESS Preparatory Project (NPP) satellite.In addition, these Agencies have a strong partnership with Europe through the European Organisation for the Exploitation of Meteorological Satellites (EUMETSAT) that will continue to be a cornerstone of our polar-orbiting constellation, and will ensure our ability to provide continuous measurements.
These changes to the NPOESS program will better ensure continuity of crucial civil climate and weather data in the future. Decisions on future satellite programs will be made to ensure the best plan for continuity of data.
While the Air Force continues to have remaining Defense Meteorological Satellite Program (DMSP) polar-orbiting satellites available for launch for the next few years, NOAA launched its final polar-orbiting satellite in February 2009. Given that weather forecasters and climate scientists rely on the data from NOAA’s current on-orbit assets, efforts will focus development of the first of the JPSS platforms on ensuring both short- and long-term continuity in crucial climate and weather data.
[...]
By cutting the NOAA portion of the project, the NASA and DoD portion will be affected as well.
The JPSS is so we can have polar orbiting weather satellites through 2024.
That's too forward looking for some people, I guess.
| 314 |
Sionainn Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:42:25am |
| 315 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:43:28am |
re: #306 RogueOne
I'm having a hard time getting around the fact that we're broke.
Funny. I thought that deficits didn't matter. That's what the GOP says every time they're in power and are running up huge bills. Why so worried now?
| 316 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:43:53am |
| 317 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:44:32am |
Die Krupps - Fatherland
| 318 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:44:43am |
re: #304 RogueOne
$5.4 Billion - $1.1 Billion for new satellites = $4.3 Billion which is the total the repubs came up with. You can't argue with the numbers. Funding for everything the NOAA does, minus the new satellite program, is not being cut.
What the NOAA does depends on the satellites. So that's a little like Bradley telling Patton that he still had plenty of other supplies, so why was he kicking about having no gasoline?
Find me the contention from anywhere that we're about to lose satellite coverage.
Nice hyperbole; we're not going to lose satellite coverage, we're going to start seeing degradation of satellite coverage. And it's not a contention; it's a fact that the satellites we have are reaching the end of their projected lifetimes.
And here's the source:
[Link: www.sbv.spacenews.com...]
The United States plans to launch in October a polar-orbiting weather satellite known as the NPOESS Preparatory Project (NPP) projected to remain in service through 2016. While NOAA had hoped to launch JPSS in 2014 to achieve a multiyear overlap with NPP, officials are now bracing for the possibility of a coverage gap in 2017 if NPP expires before JPSS completes its on-orbit testing.
Continued JPP funding woes threaten to exacerbate any gap.
“Additional delays because of lack of resources will delay that program even further, and what that means is down the road we will inevitably have a gap where we will not have the capability to do severe storm warnings as we do today,” Lubchenco warned lawmakers. “It is highly likely we will have a gap, and the longer we wait, the longer that gap gets.”
As for this:
A.) Everything is moving closer to the end of its useful service. Does that mean we need to go ahead and replace every piece of federal equipment since it would be cheaper to do it now rather than later?
You're just ignoring reality at this point. No, it makes sense to replace those things that are actually nearing the end of their useful service. That everything is moving towards that is a fatuous truism.
Whatever. You're not even bothering to actually put together an argument. This is like a five year old explaining why he shouldn't wash his hands because they're going to get dirty again anyway.
B.) Back up those numbers ($2 to $3.5 billion) they toss out or admit they pulled them out of thin air based on the belief that everything gets more expensive over time.
Yeah, those scientists are always bullshitting that way. They're so sneaky. Obviously your calculations that this won't cost anything because it fits in with your ideology to believe that is much better.
Why are you ignoring that a large part of that cost is the money we lose through the service interruption?
Oh, right, it's because you're also denying there will be a service interruption.
| 319 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:44:44am |
I would respectfully suggest that "we shouldn't spend now to save later because we can't afford it because we are broke" is a false premise.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Sample:
To put this in context, you have to realize two things about the fiscal state of America. First, the nation is not, in fact, “broke.” The federal government is having no trouble raising money, and the price of that money — the interest rate on federal borrowing — is very low by historical standards. So there’s no need to scramble to slash spending now now now; we can and should be willing to spend now if it will produce savings in the long run.
Second, while the government does have a long-run fiscal problem, that problem is overwhelmingly driven by rising health care costs. The Congressional Budget Office expects Social Security outlays as a percentage of G.D.P. to rise 30 percent over the next quarter-century, as the population ages, but it expects a near doubling of the share of G.D.P. spent on Medicare and Medicaid.
So if you’re serious about deficits, you shouldn’t be pinching pennies now; you should be looking for ways to rein in health spending over the long term. And that means taking exactly the steps that had those G.O.P. staffers sneering.
| 320 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:45:15am |
re: #315 Lidane
Both sides just run up big bills with different objectives.
We're screwed either way.
| 321 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:45:35am |
re: #308 Sionainn
When one is talking about newer better satellites, it's common sense that they are going to cost more later. It's always that way with new technology for systems such as those that aren't going to be mass produced on a large scale. It's not just a "belief," but rather a fact.
It's a baseless contention. Not everything goes up in price even when counting in inflation (That box your typing into is a good example). Even if I'm willing to concede that point it doesn't change the facts that the numbers they use are pulled out of thin air and current NOAA responsibilities are being funded at a level the president requested.
I don't mind having the argument about the necessity of the new satellite program. What I do mind is people using that argument to claim current NOAA responsibilities are being slashed and they want to close down warning centers.
| 322 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:47:32am |
re: #321 RogueOne
What I do mind is people using that argument to claim current NOAA responsibilities are being slashed and they want to close down warning centers.
The problem is that those responsibilities aren't being slashed. They still have all that responsibility, but now they're going to have an aging satellite network that will start to fail in order to do it.
| 323 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:48:21am |
re: #307 Alouette
I don't think there could ever be a tsunami on the Great Lakes. I could be wrong, though.
I was at my Aunts cottage on Huron one summer. It was sunny and you could see this band of clouds in the distance approaching the shore. It was breezy and then all of a sudden it just stopped. It happened so fast it was really eerie. The the water on the shore started going out. At first I thought I was seeing things but nope it just kept going down and out. I actually thought...hey that's what supposed to happen when you get a Tsunami, really weird. Then all of sudden this strong wind came in from the lake and about 30 seconds later the water rushed back in and some huge waves hit the shore. It was pretty amazing to watch.
| 324 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:48:27am |
re: #313 freetoken
I'd like to see where your coming up with the year 2024. If I'm willing to concede that we need the satellites by then since it's an 18-month program we'll have to get on it by 2020 to be safe.
NOAA launched its final polar-orbiting satellite in February 2009.
According to the NOAA site they say the new satellites should last 50 years which would take us out to 2059.
| 325 |
Sionainn Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:48:30am |
re: #321 RogueOne
It's a baseless contention. Not everything goes up in price even when counting in inflation (That box your typing into is a good example). Even if I'm willing to concede that point it doesn't change the facts that the numbers they use are pulled out of thin air and current NOAA responsibilities are being funded at a level the president requested.
I don't mind having the argument about the necessity of the new satellite program. What I do mind is people using that argument to claim current NOAA responsibilities are being slashed and they want to close down warning centers.
Please, name me one thing that hasn't gone up in price over time. Remember, it needs to be something that is highly specialized and not mass produced for the masses.
| 326 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:48:40am |
Legal challenges starting up in Wisconsin.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 327 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:50:33am |
re: #323 Jadespring
I was at my Aunts cottage on Huron one summer. It was sunny and you could see this band of clouds in the distance approaching the shore. It was breezy and then all of a sudden it just stopped. It happened so fast it was really eerie. The the water on the shore started going out. At first I thought I was seeing things but nope it just kept going down and out. I actually thought...hey that's what supposed to happen when you get a Tsunami, really weird. Then all of sudden this strong wind came in from the lake and about 30 seconds later the water rushed back in and some huge waves hit the shore. It was pretty amazing to watch.
That's what is called a "seiche." Not a true tsunami, but I just learned about it five minutes ago, thanks to Sionann's link.
| 328 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:50:49am |
Oy. Today is going to be a long day. Better get moving.
Have a good one, everyone!
| 329 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:52:20am |
re: #325 Sionainn
Please, name me one thing that hasn't gone up in price over time. Remember, it needs to be something that is highly specialized and not mass produced for the masses.
A. Electronics
B. Satellite launches:
[Link: www.aviationweek.com...]
Measured by kilograms-to-orbit, and adjusted for inflation, analysis by The Tauri Group finds a 34% drop in launch costs from 1999 to 2008. Measured in 2008 dollars, the price for launching a kilogram of payload to GEO fell to $21,000 in 2007-08 from an average of $32,000 in 1999-2000.
| 330 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:53:31am |
re: #327 Alouette
I walked near a schul down in Chelsea, by the way, and ran into some very nice Chabad guys standing outside getting ready to study. They were asking passer-bys (who looked Jewish) if they wanted to come study with them; is this kind of (very polite and sweet) proselytizing a Chabad thing, or are these dudes just doing their own deal?
They were very gracious when I said no, and they were fun to talk to. Nice eager young guys, exuberant.
| 331 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:53:39am |
| 332 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:55:09am |
re: #330 Obdicut
I walked near a schul down in Chelsea, by the way, and ran into some very nice Chabad guys standing outside getting ready to study. They were asking passer-bys (who looked Jewish) if they wanted to come study with them; is this kind of (very polite and sweet) proselytizing a Chabad thing, or are these dudes just doing their own deal?
They were very gracious when I said no, and they were fun to talk to. Nice eager young guys, exuberant.
This is typical for Chabad.
| 333 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:55:32am |
| 334 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:56:33am |
re: #332 Alouette
Well, if you've gotta proselytize, it's nice having it done in such a friendly and community-based way.
| 335 |
Sionainn Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:56:39am |
re: #329 RogueOne
A. Electronics
B. Satellite launches:
[Link: www.aviationweek.com...]
A. What kind of electronics?
B. I don't think this fits with what I asked for. The technology for launches was already there and hasn't really had to be improved upon.
| 336 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:57:35am |
OT:
It will be interesting to see who steps up on behalf of the banks to oppose mortgage reform.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
Heer's what the dispute is about:
To get an idea of what we’re talking about here, look at the complaint filed by Nevada’s attorney general against Bank of America. The complaint charges the bank with luring families into its loan-modification program — supposedly to help them keep their homes — under false pretenses; with giving false information about the program’s requirements (for example, telling them that they had to default on their mortgages before receiving a modification); with stringing families along with promises of action, then “sending foreclosure notices, scheduling auction dates, and even selling consumers’ homes while they waited for decisions”; and, in general, with exploiting the program to enrich itself at those families’ expense.
The end result, the complaint charges, was that “many Nevada consumers continued to make mortgage payments they could not afford, running through their savings, their retirement funds, or their children’s education funds. Additionally, due to Bank of America’s misleading assurances, consumers deferred short-sales and passed on other attempts to mitigate their losses. And they waited anxiously, month after month, calling Bank of America and submitting their paperwork again and again, not knowing whether or when they would lose their homes.”
Still, things like this only happen to losers who can’t keep up their mortgage payments, right? Wrong. Recently Dana Milbank, the Washington Post columnist, wrote about his own experience: a routine mortgage refinance with Citibank somehow turned into a nightmare of misquoted rates, improper interest charges, and frozen bank accounts. And all the evidence suggests that Mr. Milbank’s experience wasn’t unusual.
How anyone could look at the behavior of the financial services sector over the last 10 years and think that laissez faire works is beyond me. They need effective regulation.
| 337 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 5:58:52am |
re: #336 garhighway
Even Greenspan has admitted that laissez faire was very obviously a failure when it came to the financial industry.
| 338 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:00:28am |
And yet we'll see a bunch of people in Congress (on both sides of the aisle) fighting reform. That industry has spread a lot of cash around in Washington.
| 339 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:02:20am |
re: #335 Sionainn
The cost of launching a satellite isn't germane to the question of hypothetical satellite costs? How do you figure?
The climate progress site contends that by waiting to build/launch these satellites it will end up costing us more money. I'm actually willing to buy that argument but the numbers they use ($2 - $3.5 Billion) are nothing more than a wild guess. The only evidence of their costs has been provided by me and it shows the opposite of their contention.
| 340 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:02:36am |
I really don't like hearing about explosions at nuclear plants.
Big heeby jeebies.
| 341 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:05:08am |
re: #339 RogueOne
Again: That cost is not just for what the sattelites will cost, it's also the cost of the service interruption.
And the numbers are predictions done by the people whose job it is to put satellites up. For whatever goddamn reason, you think you know better than them about this.
It always amazes me how many people think that whatever the hell they think somehow is more expert than entire groups of scientists who dedicate their lives to this shit.
| 342 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:05:38am |
Yet another turtle-on-a-fence-post moment... At around 1:06 in the video here (click on the small vid capture on the left side of the top entry to expand the flash player):
[Link: www.news24.jp...]
| 343 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:06:45am |
re: #340 Jadespring
Just remember, though nuclear is scary, a big-ass refinery fire or coal plant explosion would be just as bad, if not worse.
| 344 |
Sionainn Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:09:25am |
re: #339 RogueOne
The cost of launching a satellite isn't germane to the question of hypothetical satellite costs? How do you figure?
The climate progress site contends that by waiting to build/launch these satellites it will end up costing us more money. I'm actually willing to buy that argument but the numbers they use ($2 - $3.5 Billion) are nothing more than a wild guess. The only evidence of their costs has been provided by me and it shows the opposite of their contention.
Okay, if you insist on adding the costs of launching the new satellite, we can do that. New satellites use new technology which is going to cost considerably more money than that thousands saved in the launch of that new satellite.
| 345 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:09:55am |
re: #341 Obdicut
Again: That cost is not just for what the sattelites will cost, it's also the cost of the service interruption.
There is no defined "service interruption". The fact that you keep saying it isn't going to make it come true. The interruption mentioned in the Climate Progress site is the interruption of the program, not in service. 18 months start to launch of the new satellite.
And the numbers are predictions done by the people whose job it is to put satellites up. For whatever goddamn reason, you think you know better than them about this.It always amazes me how many people think that whatever the hell they think somehow is more expert than entire groups of scientists who dedicate their lives to this shit.
No, the numbers you keep referencing come from a AGW website that wants those new satellites. If the $2 - $3.5 billion in additional costs is accurate then you won't have a problem showing me where those numbers come from. I'll wait....
| 346 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:11:38am |
re: #343 Obdicut
Ain't enough water in a tsunami to put it out either.
| 347 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:12:34am |
re: #345 RogueOne
You're just not bothering to read links, and now you're saying "AGW website" as though that cast some kind of doubt on their credibility.
Whatever.
| 348 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:13:12am |
Idiot of the Day:
"Wave will hit 8am them crazy white boys gonna try to go surfing."
"Look this is very serious people I had to evacuate all my hoess from LA, Hawaii and Japan. I had to do it. Lol"
| 349 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:13:35am |
re: #344 Sionainn
Okay, if you insist on adding the costs of launching the new satellite, we can do that. New satellites use new technology which is going to cost considerably more money than that thousands saved in the launch of that new satellite.
I see the contention, again, but I'm not seeing anything to back it up. One more link suggesting that the costs are not rising at all but in fact dropping:
[Link: www.space.com...]
PARIS - A 10-year forecast of satellite and launcher markets has good news and bad news for hardware manufacturers: There will be many more satellites to build and launch, but the average manufacturing and launch price will increase only marginally, if at all, and may even drop after accounting for inflation.
| 351 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:13:57am |
| 352 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:14:29am |
re: #347 Obdicut
You're just not bothering to read links, and now you're saying "AGW website" as though that cast some kind of doubt on their credibility.
Whatever.
It does have an effect on their credibility. They want the new satellites so they're going to argue the point from that perspective. That doesn't make them evil, it makes them human.
| 353 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:14:51am |
| 354 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:15:33am |
re: #343 Obdicut
Just remember, though nuclear is scary, a big-ass refinery fire or coal plant explosion would be just as bad, if not worse.
I just doesn't give off radiation...
| 355 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:16:41am |
re: #354 ralphieboy
If it's burning hot enough to ash it, then it does.
[Link: www.scientificamerican.com...]
| 356 |
Sionainn Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:16:48am |
re: #349 RogueOne
I see the contention, again, but I'm not seeing anything to back it up. One more link suggesting that the costs are not rising at all but in fact dropping:
[Link: www.space.com...]
I'm no expert by any stretch, but your article is talking about telecommunications satellites, not specialized satellites such as those we were talking about.
| 357 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:17:27am |
re: #343 Obdicut
Just remember, though nuclear is scary, a big-ass refinery fire or coal plant explosion would be just as bad, if not worse.
Sure they do but nuclear explosions have the fun potential to spread radiation all over the place which has nasties that last forever. Not that those other types don't spread particles of nasty too, they're just less nasty and less long term nasty the nuclear crap.
| 358 |
Sionainn Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:17:39am |
re: #350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Ooh! Happy Pi Day!
What kind of pi(e) are you going to eat today? My favorites are pumpkin and cherry.
/
| 359 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:18:11am |
re: #354 ralphieboy
I just doesn't give off radiation...
But a god awful amount of pollution. From the Wiki...
This was a world where no human could live, hotter than the planet Mercury, its atmosphere as poisonous as Saturn's. At the heart of the fire, temperatures easily exceeded 1,000 degrees [Fahrenheit]. Lethal clouds of carbon monoxide and other gases swirled through the rock chambers. - David DeKok (1986)
| 360 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:19:17am |
| 361 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:19:53am |
| 362 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:20:35am |
re: #352 RogueOne
It does have an effect on their credibility. They want the new satellites so they're going to argue the point from that perspective. That doesn't make them evil, it makes them human.
Are their facts wrong?
| 363 |
Sionainn Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:20:48am |
re: #360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I love pie flavored pie.
'Ceptin' Key Lime Pie. Hate the shit.
I hear ya on key lime pie, although I do like the key lime pie flavor Yoplait yogurt.
| 364 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:20:59am |
re: #358 Sionainn
What kind of pi(e) are you going to eat today? My favorites are pumpkin and cherry.
/
chicken pot
| 365 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:21:18am |
re: #360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I love pie flavored pie.
'Ceptin' Key Lime Pie. Hate the shit.
I make awesome Key Lime pie.
| 366 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:21:39am |
| 367 |
Sionainn Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:21:46am |
re: #361 Obdicut
Really? I like tart pie.
My favorite kind of pie is basil-rhubarb.
I've never had the guts to try rhubarb...and basil in pie? Color me skeptical.
| 368 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:22:22am |
re: #362 garhighway
Are their facts wrong?
Whether they are or not, the point remains that if we want to continue to have polar orbiting weather satellites we need replacements of those we now use.
Apparently the GOP no longer believes the US should continue our decades long project of having polar orbiting satellites, at least for weather and scientific purposes.
| 369 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:23:19am |
re: #367 Sionainn
Rhubarb is less challenging than you'd think. Just get a nice fresh one. And yeah, basil probably isn't for everyone. I'm not really a sweet-tooth guy; I also like cayenne lollipops.
| 370 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:23:19am |
Just think of the celebration they would have had in 1592, had they already coined the term, Pi. Not until 1709, though.
I looked it up. Didn't know that.
I had four years of Algebra I, remember?
| 371 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:23:22am |
re: #360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I love pie flavored pie.
'Ceptin' Key Lime Pie. Hate the shit.
The only key lime pie I've ever had and liked was some key lime pie I had at a restaurant in Key West.
| 372 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:23:24am |
I found a bunch of mini pie crusts in the freezer, so I am giving away little pies for Purim. All different flavors, Key Lime, Blueberry, Cherry.
Last year I gave away homemade sushi.
| 373 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:24:45am |
The radio this morning in NYC had a piece about protests regarding a proposed Islamic community center in Brooklyn, led by...? You guessed it: Pam Geller!
So at downtown, it was about its proximity to Ground Zero. But Brooklyn?
[Link: www.wnyc.org...]
| 374 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:24:47am |
re: #372 Alouette
Last year I gave away homemade sushi.
Is there a such thing as homemade sushi? Ain't it made by momma fish?
(Cherry Pie, please)
| 375 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:25:23am |
re: #373 garhighway
Its proximity to non-Muslims?
| 376 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:25:38am |
re: #362 garhighway
Are their facts wrong?
No but the only "facts" in the piece referenced is the dollar amounts which proves my point about the funding levels remaining the same. (Actually they're off by $.1 Billion but I'm willing to believe that's an honest mistake)
The dollar amounts tossed out to "prove" the costs will rise are pulled out of thin air and aren't based on anything other than a hunch. Even if they were accurate it doesn't really change the argument. No one has been able to show we're in dire need of these new programs and we're going to have to spend the money to replace them within the next few years. The only argument I've seen made is "they're getting old" which is weird because someone just posted a link where the last one was launched just 2 years ago.
| 377 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:25:43am |
re: #373 garhighway
The radio this morning in NYC had a piece about protests regarding a proposed Islamic community center in Brooklyn, led by...? You guessed it: Pam Geller!
So at downtown, it was about its proximity to Ground Zero. But Brooklyn?
[Link: www.wnyc.org...]
Too close to the Jewish settlement areas for her taste, I guess...
| 378 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:26:09am |
re: #368 freetoken
Whether they are or not, the point remains that if we want to continue to have polar orbiting weather satellites we need replacements of those we now use.
Apparently the GOP no longer believes the US should continue our decades long project of having polar orbiting satellites, at least for weather and scientific purposes.
I have been continuing the struggle you started at the San Diego UT site. I'm about done, though.
| 379 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:26:28am |
| 380 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:26:34am |
re: #372 Alouette
Last year I gave away homemade sushi.
I am sure that everyone was pleased to be able to say "So long and thanks for all the fish!"
| 381 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:27:09am |
re: #377 ralphieboy
Too close to the Jewish settlement areas for her taste, I guess...
If within 1 AU is too close, then yes, I suppose.
| 382 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:33:11am |
Cleric planned terrorist camp trip
JAKARTA: The radical Muslim cleric, Abu Bakar Bashir, planned to visit a terrorist training camp before the US President, Barack Obama, visited Indonesia last year, a court was told yesterday.
However, the visit to the secret camp in Aceh, which Mr Bashir is accused of setting up as part of plans to prepare for a holy war, was later cancelled because of a shortage of funds held by Jemaah Ansharut Tauhid (JAT), the group he allegedly used as a front to raise money.
The trial of Mr Bashir on seven terrorism charges related to the Aceh camp resumed in the South Jakarta District Court yesterday with testimony from the first of the 130 prosecution witnesses expected to give evidence over the coming months.
| 383 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:35:48am |
Uh-oh. I've seen the movie, I know how this ends:
Newhall Memorial appoints Dr. Frankenstein as interim chief medical officer
[Link: www.the-signal.com...]
| 384 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:36:11am |
Somebody's trapping hipsters...
| 385 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:38:00am |
re: #383 RogueOne
Uh-oh. I've seen the movie, I know how this ends:
Newhall Memorial appoints Dr. Frankenstein as interim chief medical officer
[Link: www.the-signal.com...]
That's Frahhnnkensteen, not Fraynkinstine...no relation.
| 386 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:39:56am |
re: #383 RogueOne
Uh-oh. I've seen the movie, I know how this ends:
Newhall Memorial appoints Dr. Frankenstein as interim chief medical officer
[Link: www.the-signal.com...]
That's Franken-STEEN!!!
| 387 |
laZardo Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:40:28am |
| 388 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:40:40am |
re: #383 RogueOne
Judge: "I see you want to change your name."
Man: "Yes, your honor."
Judge: "What is your name?"
Man: "Henry Buzzardbreath."
Judge: "I can see why. To what do you want it changed?"
Man: "George Buzzardbreath."
| 389 |
BishopX Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:40:46am |
re: #358 Sionainn
What kind of pi(e) are you going to eat today? My favorites are pumpkin and cherry.
/
I'm going to be making what we bastard Americans call shepard's pie (most of places it's cottage pie).
I'm using Trader Joe's fire roasted corn, bell peppers, ground turkey and homemade beef gravy for the filling and mashed yukon gold potatoes for the top, with turnips and parsnips added in for flavor.
Morning all!
| 390 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:41:26am |
Saudi sends troops, Bahrain Shi'ites call it "war"
MANAMA (Reuters) - Saudi Arabia sent troops into Bahrain on Monday to help put down weeks of protests by the Shi'ite Muslim majority, a move opponents of the Sunni ruling family on the island called a declaration of war.
Analysts saw the troop movement as a mark of concern in Saudi Arabia that political concessions by Bahrain's monarchy could embolden the Saudi kingdom's own Shi'ite minority.
About 1,000 Saudi soldiers entered Bahrain to protect government facilities, a Saudi official source said, a day after mainly Shi'ite protesters overran police and blocked roads.
| 391 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:41:44am |
re: #108 NJDhockeyfan
The Libs wanted non of that in Iraq. I would be shocked if they supported a military attack on Libya. I certainly support it and I think it's overdue.
Of course the situation in Iraq was not even minimally comparable.
| 392 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:43:57am |
re: #391 Sergey Romanov
Of course the situation in Iraq was not even minimally comparable.
We had an embargo and no-fly zone for years in Iraq, I recall very few complaints about it from any side.
| 393 |
freetoken Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:44:24am |
re: #378 garhighway
I have been continuing the struggle you started at the San Diego UT site. I'm about done, though.
The SDUT/Signonsandieogo site really only wants to generate hits, not resolve issues. Its one of those things I see in most of these fading newspaper sites - the writers and editors of articles seem oblivious to the comments they generate. As such, the writers and editors just throw out articles in hopes of getting more web hits; I really wish they'd both to follow up with more articles specifically addressing items brought up in comments.
My proposal is that if writers/editors would do so then they would find a benefit not only to themselves but others too.
The tirade of ideological talking points repeated ad nauseam only finds a home where "pushing the peanut" is the name of the game by the writers/editors.
The AGW-is-a-hoax crowd really are cut from the same cloth as Evolution-is-a-lie crowd. Eventually evidence and reasoning isn't even recognized as the defense of the worldview becomes paramount in the psyche of the naysayers.
| 394 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:44:47am |
The US Navy's unflinching support for relief efforts... Flying through hazardous air to bring supplies, sortie after sortie.
| 395 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:46:37am |
re: #391 Sergey Romanov
My opinion? I see some similarities.
A raging despot in Libya, ruling with an iron fist and by fear over his citizens.
Main difference I see is we thought Iraq had WMD and thought that they were going to use them.
If we go into Libya, it looks to me as though it is purely for humanitarian reasons, not in what we claimed (please note I said claimed) was defense.
| 396 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:50:57am |
'Blood money' university funding
Durham University and other institutions linked to Middle East dictatorships should have their funding cut, MPs have been told.
Conservative Robert Halfon called for Government cash to institutions such as the London School of Economics (LSE) and Exeter and Durham universities to be slashed because they accepted "blood money" from hardline regimes.
The LSE was given £1.5 million from a charity run by Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's son Saif, who received his PhD from the university in 2009, forcing LSE council director Sir Howard Davies to quit.
Mr Halfon (Harlow) said: "On top of the LSE, it has emerged that Durham University has done deals with the Iranian regime and that the Muslim Research Centre at my old university of Exeter was funded by the Muslim Brotherhood."
Speaking at Business Questions in the Commons, he added: "If a university takes blood money, it should lose an equivalent amount in public subsidy."
Leader of the House Sir George Young said: "Universities are autonomous organisations and accountable for what they do."
| 397 |
laZardo Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:51:04am |
I think if the rebels are asking for a no-fly zone then we could at least give them that. I'm still not going with the full military intervention option though...so as not to vindicate what few supporters Gaddafi has left.
| 398 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:51:12am |
Ugh, watching the news with lots of Japan info of course. Still find some of the pics and vids quite unreal.
Makes me glad I did move out of the West Coast of BC though. Same type of quake will happen there some day.
| 399 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:51:33am |
re: #395 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My opinion? I see some similarities.
A raging despot in Libya, ruling with an iron fist and by fear over his citizens.
Main difference I see is we thought Iraq had WMD and thought that they were going to use them.
If we go into Libya, it looks to me as though it is purely for humanitarian reasons, not in what we claimed (please note I said claimed) was defense.
Exactly. Iraq did not warrant an immediate humanitarian intervention. Hence a completely different situation.
| 400 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:51:35am |
re: #394 Rightwingconspirator
It is who we are.
| 401 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:52:22am |
re: #399 Sergey Romanov
Despot is a similarity, no?
| 402 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:54:06am |
re: #401 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Yes, they were also males, another similarity. Both similarities, however, are quite irrelevant to what we're discussing. "The Libs" were correct when they were against the Iraq invasion.
| 403 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:54:37am |
re: #396 njdhockeyfan
Should we also not pay any money to any company that does business with Saudi Arabia?
| 404 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:55:14am |
re: #395 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
One correction: Bush KNEW Iraq didn't have WMDs and could not use them. THAT is why he chose to invade Iraq. It was like taking the Chicago Bears to play against a Pee-wee League team. A guaranteed win.(based on pathetically short term thinking)
| 405 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:56:33am |
I love Norm MacDonald's tweets:
What part of Angroecum sesquipedale may be the key to this whole thing did you not understand?
| 406 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:56:40am |
re: #404 darthstar
One correction: Bush KNEW Iraq didn't have WMDs and could not use them. THAT is why he chose to invade Iraq. It was like taking the Chicago Bears to play against a Pee-wee League team. A guaranteed win.(based on pathetically short term thinking)
Are you sure he didn't believe his own BS? I'm not sure I have seen evidence of "Bush lied...".
| 407 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:57:26am |
re: #404 darthstar
Please, dear god, note the word CLAIMED! Precisely why I put it there.
| 408 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:59:20am |
re: #406 Sergey Romanov
Are you sure he didn't believe his own BS? I'm not sure I have seen evidence of "Bush lied...".
He was high on his new found power as president. All of his strutting around, his "bring it on" bravado after American soldiers were killed...to him, it was just political theatre.
He knew.
| 409 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 6:59:32am |
re: #406 Sergey Romanov
Are you sure he didn't believe his own BS? I'm not sure I have seen evidence of "Bush lied...".
I'd love to be able to bash the CIA for falling down during their "it's a slam dunk" bit but when every intel agency believed the same thing it's kind of hard to do.
| 410 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:01:21am |
re: #407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Please, dear god, note the word CLAIMED! Precisely why I put it there.
Yes, yes...I see it. But I disagreed with the "we thought Iraq had WMD" part...we were told repeatedly that they did by people with a personal interest in convincing us of that.
| 411 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:01:41am |
re: #408 darthstar
There are quotes going around that are mostly confirmed by Snopes that show that the belief in WMD was bipartisan. And yes, all those Dems did not call for the invasion based on this, but this is another issue. The issue is whether Bush believed in WMDs or not. I think this bipartisan belief gives credence to the former.
| 412 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:02:15am |
re: #409 RogueOne
I'd love to be able to bash the CIA for falling down during their "it's a slam dunk" bit but when every intel agency believed the same thing it's kind of hard to do.
Can you confirm "every intel agency"?
| 413 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:03:02am |
re: #409 RogueOne
I'd love to be able to bash the CIA for falling down during their "it's a slam dunk" bit but when every intel agency believed the same thing it's kind of hard to do.
The invasion was a slam dunk. On that part they were right. The US kicked the living shit out of the Iraqi military (which, for the most part, just fled and didn't fight back)...
It was the occupation after the party that wasn't a slam dunk.
| 414 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:04:26am |
re: #409 RogueOne
I'd love to be able to bash the CIA for falling down during their "it's a slam dunk" bit but when every intel agency believed the same thing it's kind of hard to do.
UK Telegraph -
Intelligence agencies were concerned about Iraq WMD dossier, emails reveal
British intelligence agencies were concerned that the Government's notorious dossier on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction exaggerated the threat, secret emails have revealed.
Saddam had WMD - which were degraded and under Arms Inspector seal. I don't know anyone who isn't willing to say that - the bone of contention is whether that was enough to warrant invasion - particulalrly when there was consternation among intelligence agencies and officers.
| 415 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:05:31am |
re: #411 Sergey Romanov
Yes, Joe Lieberman was a Democrat back then even. I don't trust most Democrats any more than I trust most Republicans on this topic. Their opinions are, for the most part, formed on the "how will it look politically?" scale. Two years after 9/11 it was political suicide to question the President on matters of national security.
| 416 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:06:53am |
re: #414 wozzablog
UK Telegraph -
Saddam had WMD - which were degraded and under Arms Inspector seal. I don't know anyone who isn't willing to say that - the bone of contention is whether that was enough to warrant invasion - particulalrly when there was consternation among intelligence agencies and officers.
The UK government was selling the intel to MI6 as being solid, not the other way around - and that is never the way it should work - ever.
| 417 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:07:59am |
re: #410 darthstar
Dammit... forgot to put claimed in the previous paragraph.
Well, you got me.
Fuck.
| 418 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:08:10am |
re: #415 darthstar
Yes, Joe Lieberman was a Democrat back then even. I don't trust most Democrats any more than I trust most Republicans on this topic. Their opinions are, for the most part, formed on the "how will it look politically?" scale. Two years after 9/11 it was political suicide to question the President on matters of national security.
Many quotes are from long before 9/11.
| 419 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:09:42am |
re: #415 darthstar
Yes, Joe Lieberman was a Democrat back then even. I don't trust most Democrats any more than I trust most Republicans on this topic. Their opinions are, for the most part, formed on the "how will it look politically?" scale. Two years after 9/11 it was political suicide to question the President on matters of national security.
[Link: www.snopes.com...]
| 420 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:09:50am |
re: #417 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Dammit... forgot to put claimed in the previous paragraph.
Well, you got me.
Fuck.
Don't worry about it. It was the thought, not you, I was disagreeing with. We're on similar pages here.
| 421 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:10:43am |
I didn't think Bush was evil, nor do I do I think that Obama is evil.
So, I'm naive. Bush was evil, Obama is pure goodness.
Thanks guys, I think I've got it now.
| 422 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:11:21am |
Interesting discussion from another site regarding where to send donations for Japan and the possibility that the Red Cross might not be the best place to put those donations.
Against:
Haiti: Where did all the money go?
[Link: www.ajc.com...]
My organization has attempted for nearly a year to get the Red Cross to account for the money they collected for Haiti. In a recent meeting, I was told that 70 percent of their donations remain in “reserve” for longer-term reconstruction.Long-term development to secure transitional and permanent housing, build infrastructure outside of Port-au-Prince and promote public health campaigns are all extremely important. But if the Red Cross, whose mandate and expertise lie in emergency and crisis management, is not responding to continued immediate emergencies on the ground, then who is? Who is responsible for the deteriorating quality of life and preventable suffering faced by those most affected by the earthquake?
and considerations before giving:
The Do's and Don'ts of Disaster Donations
[Link: goodintents.org...]
| 423 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:12:12am |
re: #421 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I didn't think Bush was evil, nor do I do I think that Obama is evil.
So, I'm naive. Bush was evil, Obama is pure goodness.
Thanks guys, I think I've got it now.
Bush wasn't pure evil - he had an agenda and surrounded himself with folks who shared that agenda - and much of it was executed poorly, but that only makes him one thing - POTUS.
| 424 |
The Left Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:13:40am |
re: #421 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I didn't think Bush was evil, nor do I do I think that Obama is evil.
So, I'm naive. Bush was evil, Obama is pure goodness.
Thanks guys, I think I've got it now.
I don't think anyone is saying Bush is evil here. You can do the wrong things for the right reasons (and vice versa). Too many unknown unknowns here.
| 425 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:13:54am |
re: #419 Sergey Romanov
[Link: www.snopes.com...]
Clinton's comments from 1998 are no longer relevant in 2003. Five years (more - it started in 1991) of no-fly zones and US bombing missions over Iraqi military targets (longest period without a US bomb falling on Iraqi soil during Clinton's 8 years? 6 days) ensured that Iraq's military strength was waning, and not waxing, leading up to the US invasion.
I don't put you in this category, but I do love the fact that Bush's biggest defenders continued to use Clinton as validation for Bush's decisions.
| 426 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:14:16am |
re: #424 iceweasel
I don't think anyone is saying Bush is evil here. You can do the wrong things for the right reasons (and vice versa). Too many unknown unknowns here.
Not enough known knowns, or known unknowns.
| 427 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:15:21am |
re: #423 wozzablog
Bush wasn't pure evil - he had an agenda and surrounded himself with folks who shared that agenda - and much of it was executed poorly, but that only makes him one thing - POTUS.
Iraq invasion/WMDs were possibly due to intellectual negligence by Bush (as well as conscious agenda of his circle), so passively evil or unintentionally evil. Some things were actively evil (torture). Some were good (AIDS help).
| 428 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:15:28am |
"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
| 429 |
McSpiff Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:15:52am |
re: #421 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I didn't think Bush was evil, nor do I do I think that Obama is evil.
So, I'm naive. Bush was evil, Obama is pure goodness.
Thanks guys, I think I've got it now.
Bush wasn't evil, but I think he was seriously misled. He surrounded himself with a lot of old cold warriors from his father's days. The world had seriously changed since 91, let alone Vietnam.
| 430 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:16:11am |
"We know that he has stored away secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
| 431 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:16:12am |
re: #422 RogueOne
Japan has an existing industrial infrastructure and will, in about three years, look like this disaster never hit. Hell, they bounced back from nuclear attack in a single generation to dominate the auto industry.
Haiti is a whole different ball of wax. They'll be fucked for years.
| 432 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:16:43am |
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
| 433 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:16:58am |
re: #425 darthstar
Clinton's comments from 1998 are no longer relevant in 2003. Five years (more - it started in 1991) of no-fly zones and US bombing missions over Iraqi military targets (longest period without a US bomb falling on Iraqi soil during Clinton's 8 years? 6 days) ensured that Iraq's military strength was waning, and not waxing, leading up to the US invasion.
I don't put you in this category, but I do love the fact that Bush's biggest defenders continued to use Clinton as validation for Bush's decisions.
We're not talking about whether it was waning or waxing though, but whether it was possible to consciously believe in non-existent WMDs while not being a liar.
| 434 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:17:03am |
re: #412 Sergey Romanov
Can you confirm "every intel agency"?
Fine, go ahead and be pedantic about it.//
The big 3 against invasion (the germans, french, and russians) all believed the same thing the CIA was spouting.
| 435 |
Varek Raith Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:17:10am |
re: #425 darthstar
Lol. Seeing it now...
I don't put you in this category, but I do love the fact that Bush's biggest defenders continued to use Clinton as validation for Bush's decisions.
| 436 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:17:25am |
"My position is very clear: The time has come for decisive action to eliminate the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. I'm a co-sponsor of the bipartisan resolution that's presently under consideration in the Senate. Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave threat to America and our allies..."
John Edwards (D, NC), Oct. 7, 2002
| 437 |
kirkspencer Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:17:48am |
re: #393 freetoken
The SDUT/Signonsandieogo site really only wants to generate hits, not resolve issues. Its one of those things I see in most of these fading newspaper sites - the writers and editors of articles seem oblivious to the comments they generate. As such, the writers and editors just throw out articles in hopes of getting more web hits; I really wish they'd both to follow up with more articles specifically addressing items brought up in comments.
My proposal is that if writers/editors would do so then they would find a benefit not only to themselves but others too.
The tirade of ideological talking points repeated ad nauseam only finds a home where "pushing the peanut" is the name of the game by the writers/editors.
The AGW-is-a-hoax crowd really are cut from the same cloth as Evolution-is-a-lie crowd. Eventually evidence and reasoning isn't even recognized as the defense of the worldview becomes paramount in the psyche of the naysayers.
Not entirely.
A significant underlying principle of the anti-AGW crowd is the perception - the belief - that the goal of AGW is really to hamper the United States.
Our production, our wealth, is all as a result of expended energy. Throttling back also cuts our economy; it is self-strangulation.
We're ahead, and "they" want us to walk or even walk backward so they can catch up and pass us.
Thus their response to "cut back" is "you first" -- pointing fingers especially at China, but with plenty left for other major industrial areas trying to capture markets from us.
It is a very difficult argument to defeat.
It is also significantly different from the anti-evolution crowd. Pretending they are the same leads to making arguments effective and valid for one group which are worthless if not antagonistic to the other.
I don't have an answer what to do, but I know we can't lump them in the same camp.
And I also know that if I must convince only one, I will take the anti-AGW crowd. For the children of tomorrow.
| 438 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:18:47am |
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime .... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction .... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
| 439 |
McSpiff Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:18:52am |
re: #430 njdhockeyfan
"We know that he has stored away secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
re: #434 RogueOne
Fine, go ahead and be pedantic about it.//
The big 3 against invasion (the germans, french, and russians) all believed the same thing the CIA was spouting.
So Bush had access to the same intelligence as the French and German leaders, yet he was the only one to draw the conclusion that invasion was the correct course. Again, not exactly a sterling endorsement of his leadership ability.
| 440 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:19:31am |
re: #434 RogueOne
Fine, go ahead and be pedantic about it.//
The big 3 against invasion (the germans, french, and russians) all believed the same thing the CIA was spouting.
While I believe I read something to that effect, can you support it?
| 441 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:19:36am |
re: #432 njdhockeyfan
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
Why don't you use the whole statement?
| 442 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:19:51am |
I have many more quotes just like that. Who was lying, all of them or just George W Bush?
| 443 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:20:30am |
re: #442 njdhockeyfan
Regarding the TEd KEnnedy quote - why don't you use the full paragraph?
| 444 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:21:11am |
re: #438 njdhockeyfan
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ..."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
Politically motivated cowards - all of them. I didn't realize you were such a big fan of Democrats that you kept a keepsake of all their comments.
| 445 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:21:13am |
re: #437 kirkspencer
Not entirely.
A significant underlying principle of the anti-AGW crowd is the perception - the belief - that the goal of AGW is really to hamper the United States.
Our production, our wealth, is all as a result of expended energy. Throttling back also cuts our economy; it is self-strangulation.
We're ahead, and "they" want us to walk or even walk backward so they can catch up and pass us.
Thus their response to "cut back" is "you first" -- pointing fingers especially at China, but with plenty left for other major industrial areas trying to capture markets from us.
No, climate deniers' response is to deny AGW or even GW itself. And the arguments used are all from the arsenal of evolution deniers, Holocaust deniers and similar groups.
| 446 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:21:28am |
I even went along wtiht the premise that Saddam had WMD's, for me the question was whether their existence posed enough of a potential threat to the US and its allies to warrant military intervention.
I did not think so. I grudgingly accepted the invasion as a case of erring on the side of safety, and was even more annoyed when it turned out that it was just an error - and one that made us less safe in the end.
| 448 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:22:41am |
Also the Russians told us their intelligence had discovered Saddam was planning terrorist attacks in the US.
| 449 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:22:50am |
Senator Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002:
We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction. Our intelligence community is also deeply concerned about the acquisition of such weapons by Iran, North Korea, Libya, Syria and other nations. But information from the intelligence community over the past six months does not point to Iraq as an imminent threat to the United States or a major proliferator of weapons of mass destruction.
| 450 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:22:50am |
re: #439 McSpiff
re: #434 RogueOne
So Bush had access to the same intelligence as the French and German leaders, yet he was the only one to draw the conclusion that invasion was the correct course. Again, not exactly a sterling endorsement of his leadership ability.
I hate to rehash this argument but the deciding factor for the invasion wasn't based solely on the WMD's by themselves.
| 451 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:22:51am |
re: #445 Sergey Romanov
No, climate deniers' response is to deny AGW or even GW itself. And the arguments used are all from the arsenal of evolution deniers, Holocaust deniers and similar groups.
Don't stop at AGW or GW, deny the validity of science and ignore the nature of scientific inquiry and the scientific method.
Failing that, put your hands over your ears and make a loud humming noise...
| 452 |
laZardo Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:23:24am |
re: #444 darthstar
That's why I'm still trying to go Green.
/still waiting to kick out McKinney tho...
| 453 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:23:43am |
re: #444 darthstar
Politically motivated cowards - all of them. I didn't realize you were such a big fan of Democrats that you kept a keepsake of all their comments.
Why bother? Support for the starting of the war was an issue among the top Democrats running for the president in 2008. Yes, Democrats supported the war, many came to admit it was a mistake. And it was. Look who's cheering for an invasion of Libya. You can't put a good Neo-Con down for trying.
Other then that...he's dead Jim.
| 454 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:23:44am |
re: #448 njdhockeyfan
Also the Russians told us their intelligence had discovered Saddam was planning terrorist attacks in the US.
Linky?
| 455 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:24:24am |
re: #447 iceweasel
This, times eleventy.
Which is why I laugh when people think they've got some kind of "upper hand" with quotes from Kerry, Edwards, Gore, Pelosi, etc. Their asshole still lied this country into a war. Our assholes just stood by and watched.
| 456 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:24:32am |
re: #444 darthstar
Politically motivated cowards - all of them. I didn't realize you were such a big fan of Democrats that you kept a keepsake of all their comments.
Just wanted to set the record straight. The left was constantly saying GWB lied about Iraq's WMDs. I thought it should be noted that everyone thought the exact same thing.
| 457 |
Varek Raith Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:24:39am |
re: #448 njdhockeyfan
Also the Russians told us their intelligence had discovered Saddam was planning terrorist attacks in the US.
The same intelligence agency that targets journos and dissidents?
| 458 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:25:03am |
re: #448 njdhockeyfan
Also the Russians told us their intelligence had discovered Saddam was planning terrorist attacks in the US.
This, I would like to hear.........
| 459 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:25:34am |
So in the end there is no firm evidence that Bush knew there were no WMDs, and therefore lied/intentionally told an untruth on this.
| 460 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:25:40am |
And the Kursk was sunk by a collision with a foreign spy submarine...
| 461 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:26:07am |
re: #450 RogueOne
I hate to rehash this argument but the deciding factor for the invasion wasn't based solely on the WMD's by themselves.
Saddam's attempt to assassinate one of our Presidents probably weighed in on the decision.
| 462 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:26:24am |
re: #456 njdhockeyfan
Just wanted to set the record straight. The left was constantly saying GWB lied about Iraq's WMDs. I thought it should be noted that everyone thought the exact same thing.
Well, I guess you missed my #419.
| 463 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:27:06am |
re: #456 njdhockeyfan
Just wanted to set the record straight. The left was constantly saying GWB lied about Iraq's WMDs. I thought it should be noted that everyone thought the exact same thing.
The fucker WAS lying. And the Democrats let him. Of course they're equally to blame because they actually had a majority in 2002 and could have stopped him. But they didn't. That doesn't excuse his dishonesty to this country.
| 464 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:27:19am |
re: #456 njdhockeyfan
Just wanted to set the record straight. The left was constantly saying GWB lied about Iraq's WMDs. I thought it should be noted that everyone thought the exact same thing.
And the same people who thought Bsh lied were not exactly ennamered with the Democrats who decided to go to war.
But - i said up therad - very few people who wanted to be taken at all seriously denied that Saddam had some WMD - and no one said he hadn't used them at one point or another.
Basically - you are painting "the left" as Code Pink?, rather than people who actually knew what the hell was going on and now essentially have the same position as Colin Powell.
| 465 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:27:49am |
| 466 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:28:11am |
re: #458 wozzablog
This, I would like to hear...
Sorry, I don't have audio. How about a CNN article?
Putin: Russia warned U.S. of Iraq terror
(CNN) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin said his country warned the United States several times that Saddam Hussein's regime was planning terror attacks on the United States and its overseas interests.
Putin's comments in Kazakhstan came amid a new debate in the United States about the extent of ties between Saddam and the al Qaeda terrorist network triggered by a preliminary report from the commission investigating the September 11 attacks.
"I can confirm that after the events of September 11, 2001, and up to the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said.
The Russian leader did not elaborate on any details of the warnings of terror plots or mention whether they were tied to the al Qaeda terror network.
| 467 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:28:31am |
re: #459 Sergey Romanov
So in the end there is no firm evidence that Bush knew there were no WMDs, and therefore lied/intentionally told an untruth on this.
There was no evidence that WMDs existed. It's a logical fallacy to prove that they don't, which is what Saddam had to do to prevent the invasion. So yes, the lie stands.
| 468 |
BishopX Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:28:57am |
re: #456 njdhockeyfan
i'd like to not that naming well regarded democrats does not mean everyone bought in to it. Yes, there was support from both sides of the aisle, that's why the anti-war movement went nowhere. None of the dems were willing to come out and say that they didn't trust the CiC, especially after 9/11. Plenty of people knew that the WMD argument was bullshit before the war. Most the the elected democrats just didn't care.
| 469 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:29:06am |
I saw Colin Powell's speech to the UN Security Council (which he now admits is a blot on his record) as a bit of self-sealing logic: once we attacked Saddam, he would use his WMD's, thus proving their existence and their potential threat.
When he did not use them, I was a bit perplexed, but later it became clear that there was never any serious threat from him, certainly not one enough to justify an invasion.
| 470 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:29:17am |
re: #463 darthstar
The fucker WAS lying. And the Democrats let him. Of course they're equally to blame because they actually had a majority in 2002 and could have stopped him. But they didn't. That doesn't excuse his dishonesty to this country.
Got proof he was lying?
| 471 |
darthstar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:29:32am |
Okay, time to go run the dogs. You'll all have to be wrong about Iraq without me for a while. :)
| 472 |
BishopX Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:30:02am |
re: #468 BishopX
I'd like to note that naming well regarded democrats does not mean everyone bought in to it. Yes, there was support from both sides of the aisle, that's why the anti-war movement went nowhere. None of the dems were willing to come out and say that they didn't trust the CiC, especially after 9/11. Plenty of people knew that the WMD argument was bullshit before the war. Most the the elected democrats just didn't care.
PIMF
| 473 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:30:07am |
re: #465 Sergey Romanov
?
That was one of the explanations given by Russian authorities as to its demise.
Weeks later, when the Moscow television tower caught fire, there were runors that it was caused by a collision with a foreign spy TV tower...
| 474 |
The Left Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:30:19am |
re: #455 darthstar
Which is why I laugh when people think they've got some kind of "upper hand" with quotes from Kerry, Edwards, Gore, Pelosi, etc. Their asshole still lied this country into a war. Our assholes just stood by and watched.
Our assholes collaborated where they could, when it would give them political advantage. And let's not even get into the msm coverage-- feh.
I don't like rehashing the Iraq issue purely because there's plenty of blame to go around, and we have to deal with the situation we're left with now.
While I loathed Bush as POTUS, I can still acknowledge that he's left a great legacy in Africa. Etc. i tend to feel he was more a victim of the company he kept than actively evil.
| 475 |
Varek Raith Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:30:39am |
| 476 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:31:29am |
re: #467 darthstar
There was no evidence that WMDs existed. It's a logical fallacy to prove that they don't, which is what Saddam had to do to prevent the invasion. So yes, the lie stands.
Um, I don't follow your logic. That there was no credible evidence that WMDs existed doesn't mean people wouldn't sincerely believe that WMDs existed. Some people think there is actually credible evidence for astrology, God and UFOs, there's neither but these people are not necessarily liars. So prove that Bush told the untruth with intent to deceive.
| 477 |
Varek Raith Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:31:45am |
re: #459 Sergey Romanov
So in the end there is no firm evidence that Bush knew there were no WMDs, and therefore lied/intentionally told an untruth on this.
I'm with you on this one.
| 478 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:32:06am |
re: #466 njdhockeyfan
Sorry, I don't have audio. How about a CNN article?
Which were so credible it seems they warranted no mentions in the post war report on pre-war intelligence.
| 479 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:33:11am |
re: #473 ralphieboy
That was one of the explanations given by Russian authorities as to its demise.
In the beginning there were all sorts of explanations, including that a US submarine torpedoed Kursk. Those were made just as wild hypotheses before the official version.
| 480 |
njdhockeyfan Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:34:47am |
Gotta go...later lizards.
BUSH LIED, PEOPLE DIED!
//
| 481 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:35:02am |
re: #425 darthstar
But... of course, Clinton is no longer relevant.
| 482 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:35:07am |
re: #466 njdhockeyfan
Frankly, Putin _is_ a man who will lie without batting an eye, so that's not very credible.
| 483 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:35:16am |
re: #479 Sergey Romanov
In the beginning there were all sorts of explanations, including that a US submarine torpedoed Kursk. Those were made just as wild hypotheses before the official version.
Well, they did not want to blame it on any shortcomings on the part of the Russian navy, that would be unpatriotic. I personally blame it on the Jews.
/
| 484 |
The Left Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:35:39am |
re: #477 Varek Raith
I'm with you on this one.
Me too. You can have a false belief that is nonetheless sincerely held. I tend to think that's what was going on with most folks on this.
| 485 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:36:43am |
re: #440 Sergey Romanov
While I believe I read something to that effect, can you support it?
on 2 of 3. The only links I can find re: russia are just quotes from various u.s. politicians not actual evidence. I found a bunch of links "proving" the russians helped the iraqis move them to syria though....
| 486 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:37:03am |
re: #474 iceweasel
While I loathed Bush as POTUS, I can still acknowledge that he's left a great legacy in Africa. Etc. i tend to feel he was more a victim of the company he kept than actively evil.
With Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Abrahams and the Bush Doctrine, what could go wrong?
| 487 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:37:09am |
The truth surrounding the threat posed by Iraq was stretched to it's absolute breaking point repeatedly. The Uk Government needed to "sex up" it's dossier on Iraq's threat and lifted portions off a students website.
Ahab had to go get a whale.
| 488 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:37:28am |
re: #459 Sergey Romanov
So in the end there is no firm evidence that Bush knew there were no WMDs, and therefore lied/intentionally told an untruth on this.
He was aware that they posed no credible threat to the US, they just served as a conventient excuse to go forward with his neocon policy of regime change.
| 489 |
The Left Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:39:03am |
re: #486 Jeff In Ohio
With Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Abrahams and the Bush Doctrine, what could go wrong?
It's the premise for a wacky situation comedy?
| 490 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:39:13am |
re: #483 ralphieboy
Well, they did not want to blame it on any shortcomings on the part of the Russian navy, that would be unpatriotic. I personally blame it on the Jews.
/
If they didn't want to blame it on ourselves, why was there a 2000 pp. official report doing exactly that?
| 491 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:39:28am |
re: #474 iceweasel
While I loathed Bush as POTUS, I can still acknowledge that he's left a great legacy in Africa. Etc. i tend to feel he was more a victim of the company he kept than actively evil.
And he had a reasonable attitude towards Islam and immigration reform, which his own party could not bring itself to support.
| 492 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:39:39am |
re: #488 ralphieboy
He was aware that they posed no credible threat to the US, they just served as a conventient excuse to go forward with his neocon policy of regime change.
Now that is a good way to look at this.
| 493 |
iossarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:43:55am |
re: #488 ralphieboy
He was aware that they posed no credible threat to the US, they just served as a conventient excuse to go forward with his neocon policy of regime change.
Exactly.
As for his legacy, any bright spots have to be considered in the context of the whole, which includes banning contraceptives in Africa and his "crusade" against terrorism.
No-one's a 100% fuckup, but GWB runs it pretty close.
| 494 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:44:33am |
re: #488 ralphieboy
He was aware that they posed no credible threat to the US, they just served as a conventient excuse to go forward with his neocon policy of regime change.
He had to go eventually. Think of how much money we saved by doing it then instead of now, somewhere between $2 - $3.5 trillion would be my guess.//
| 495 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:44:39am |
re: #492 Sergey Romanov
Now that is a good way to look at this.
Um...so he's just dishonest and not a liar? Do you need help shoving that camel through that needle?
| 496 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:46:22am |
Frankly - any notion that the Iraq intelligence regarding a threat was credible died when the UK Government said Saddam could hit UK bases in Cyprus within 45 minutes of an order being given.
That was on it's face rediculous.
| 497 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:46:58am |
Greets and saluts from the still soggy NYC metro area. Floodwaters are receding across North Jersey, but that's a minor inconvenience compared to the ongoing nightmare facing millions of Japanese who are dealing with ongoing aftershocks, the threat of additional tsunami, and nuclear emergencies at multiple reactors. Reports indicate that the core at a third reactor at the Fukushima plant was briefly exposed above coolant levels - causing a temperature spike and increasing worries about a major radiation leak.
Already, the USS Ronald Reagan has moved away from the projected radiation plume from Fukushima because several crews have been subjected to radiation. This is going to further hinder relief efforts in the region as the Reagan and her task force are critical for logistical assistance with the Japanese relief efforts - helicoptering in SAR and relief.
| 498 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:47:27am |
re: #494 RogueOne
He had to go eventually. Think of how much money we saved by doing it then instead of now, somewhere between $2 - $3.5 trillion would be my guess.//
He could well be going the way of Qaddafi or Mubarak: we might have save those trillions and thousands of lives...
| 499 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:48:02am |
re: #495 Jeff In Ohio
Dude, you're confusing the issues. There is no firm evidence he lied about the existence of WMDs. On the matter of their danger to the US, however, I have less doubts that he stretched the truth.
| 500 |
iossarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:49:34am |
re: #496 wozzablog
Frankly - any notion that the Iraq intelligence regarding a threat was credible died when the UK Government said Saddam could hit UK bases in Cyprus within 45 minutes of an order being given.
That was on it's face rediculous.
The SUPERGUN!
Made of drainpipes, as I recall.
| 501 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:50:32am |
A quaint, photographic analogy of the Bush administration Iraq policy.
[Link: i.crackedcdn.com...]
| 502 |
RogueOne Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:52:53am |
I have work to do, enjoy the rest of the day people.
| 503 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:52:58am |
re: #500 iossarian
The SUPERGUN!
Made of drainpipes, as I recall.
Wrose. Taxi driver gossipp about nothing which MI6 was verifiably inacurate, but who's disclaimer Downing Street ignored.
[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]
Gossiping taxi driver source of Iraq 45-minute WMD claim
Michael Evans, Defence EditorAn Iraqi taxi driver who overheard two military commanders talking about Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction was allegedly the “intelligence sub-source” quoted in the Government’s dossier to prove that chemical missiles could be fired in 45 minutes, according to a report by a Tory MP.
A house of fucking cards.
| 504 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:52:58am |
re: #499 Sergey Romanov
Dude, you're confusing the issues. There is no firm evidence he lied about the existence of WMDs. On the matter of their danger to the US, however, I have less doubts that he stretched the truth.
Gotcha. One would be a dishonest attempt to lead the US into a war the other is a dishonest attempt to lead the US into a war.
| 505 |
iossarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:53:20am |
re: #501 Jeff In Ohio
A quaint, photographic analogy of the Bush administration Iraq policy.
[Link: i.crackedcdn.com...]
I dunno - that looks like an innovative and ultimately successful pooling of limited resources.
Whereas the Bush Iraq policy was a careless squandering of resources that could have been far more effectively used elsewhere.
Like the photo though (especially the de rigeur cigarette).
| 506 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:54:30am |
re: #504 Jeff In Ohio
Gotcha. One would be a dishonest attempt to lead the US into a war the other is a dishonest attempt to lead the US into a war.
mate, seriously - there were WMD. Honestly - we found them, rotting mustard gas cannisters buried in the desert, rotting shells of chemicals untouched since they were sealed by inspectors.
We found WMD - none of it was viable, all of which we knew about before the war, but we found it.
| 508 |
Varek Raith Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:57:02am |
| 509 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:57:22am |
re: #504 Jeff In Ohio
Gotcha. One would be a dishonest attempt to lead the US into a war the other is a dishonest attempt to lead the US into a war.
That is correct.
| 510 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:57:27am |
| 512 |
iossarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:58:02am |
re: #510 Jeff In Ohio
I like it in my tea.
"If you were my husband, I'd poison your coffee."
"If you were my wife, I'd drink it."
| 513 |
Wozza Matter? Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:58:41am |
The only damage saddam's wmd could do in 2003 was maim or poison anyone attempting to use it.
The British intelligence agency knew this - the British Foreign Office knew this.
| 514 |
Varek Raith Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:58:42am |
re: #511 iceweasel
That's it-- we're invading.
Did I say sarin?
I meant saccharin.
I always mix up the two.
Would you like some coffee???
| 515 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:58:42am |
re: #512 iossarian
"If you were my husband, I'd poison your coffee."
"If you were my wife, I'd drink it."
Now there is a foreign policy I can get behind.
| 516 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 14, 2011 7:59:14am |
re: #514 Varek Raith
Did I say sarin?
I meant saccharin.
I always mix up the two.
Would you like some coffee???
No, but I could use a massive infusion of marijuana.
| 517 |
Jeff In Ohio Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:00:59am |
Once again, George Bush has worn me out. I'm off.
| 519 |
iossarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:01:39am |
Meanwhile, our old chums the Saudis move in to quell dissent in Bahrain...
They are there to guard key oil facilities and financial institutions, apparently. Got to keep the oil flowing!
[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]
| 520 |
AK-47% Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:01:59am |
| 523 |
Bear Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:14:54am |
Kyodo News now reporting fuel rods again fully exposed. ([Link: english.kyodonews.jp...]
| 524 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:16:20am |
re: #507 Jeff In Ohio
I like mustard on a
h"Notdog".
| 525 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:17:06am |
re: #514 Varek Raith
Just don't mix up the "Skinny and Sweet".
| 526 |
Buck Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:18:46am |
re: #503 wozzablog
Wrose. Taxi driver gossipp about nothing which MI6 was verifiably inacurate, but who's disclaimer Downing Street ignored.
[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]
A house of fucking cards.
The SUPERGUN, if I remember right was built by a Canadian, and it almost worked....
The Mossad took him out, according to rumor...
| 527 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:23:00am |
My father-in-law (80) volunteers regularly (almost full time) at the local rescue mission/homeless shelter. The "residents" use rags to dry off after they shower.
I had the idea of getting the folks in my church to bring their used bath and kitchen towels in for me to take to the mission. Everybody of means has ten or fifteen bath towels that sit in their closets day after day, not being used because they're frayed, bleach stained, whatever. They're actually in the way. So, I asked them to start bringing them in.
We've donated over 200 towels already and the my FIL says the guys say they've never had it so good.
It doesn't always have to hurt to help someone.
Just wanted to plant that little seed elsewhere.
| 528 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:27:42am |
More photos of the devastation in Japan, including a Japanese SDF F-2 fighter swept into a building at the Matsushima base, checking for radiation exposure among evacuees and survivors, ships rammed ashore and dropped on top of buildings,
It's that photo that shows just how high the tsunami was - easily above 10 meters (30+ feet).
| 529 |
abolitionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:38:50am |
The videos of the Fukushima unti1 and unit3 explosions appear to be qualitatively very different. In the latter, one can see a very prominent fast-rising plume (as if convection-driven) and a significant mass that falls back down. I'm unconvinced by official reports that the 2nd event was similar to the unit1 explosion.
| 530 |
Randy W. Weeks Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:40:21am |
Horrific images of Japan from MSNBC
Also saw from @breakingnews that the AP is reporting that Japanese officials say the nuclear fuel rods appear to be melting inside all three of the most troubled nuclear reactors. (no link...sorry)
Awful beyond belief.
| 531 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:41:51am |
| 532 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:42:39am |
re: #531 Killgore Trout
Beck On Japan Earthquake: "There's A Message Being Sent" From God
Oh, gawd.
Glenn Beck is SUCH AN IDIOT.
| 533 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:44:03am |
re: #531 Killgore Trout
Beck On Japan Earthquake: "There's A Message Being Sent" From God
Drats. I was betting on Pat. /
| 534 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:44:13am |
re: #531 Killgore Trout
Beck On Japan Earthquake: "There's A Message Being Sent" From God
Yes, Climate Change May Cause More Tsunamis. No, That's Not Alarmism
[Link: www.treehugger.com...]
| 535 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:44:43am |
re: #531 Killgore Trout
Beck On Japan Earthquake: "There's A Message Being Sent" From God
There's too much gay marriage in Japan!1!
| 536 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:47:13am |
re: #529 abolitionist
It could be the result of the hydrogen exploding in a different part of the containment building - resulting in different portions of the structure failing - or being flung out of the structure. We simply don't have all the information needed.
TEPCO issued a notice about what they believed to be a hydrogen gas event, and a list of ongoing notifications.
For the moment it doesn't appear that there has been a breach of the reactor vessels - which would mean significant radiation exposures, but that doesn't mean that the situation is under control by any stretch - they are trying to get the coolant flow restored to bring the temperatures down.
Bear in mind that the reactors went offline after the quake, but the coolant systems and their backups failed when the power flow was disrupted, and damage to the coolant backups from the tsunami haven't helped either.
| 537 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:47:29am |
re: #532 reine.de.tout
Oh, gawd.
Glenn Beck is SUCH AN IDIOT.
He even implies it's because people aren't following the 10 commandments. Right out of Pat Robertson/Phelps' playbook.
| 538 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:48:05am |
There's something strange going on. It's not the first time I see "Reuters Middle East Watch" downding aigle who posts the CAMERA stuff.
| 539 |
iossarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:48:37am |
re: #534 Walter L. Newton
Yes, Climate Change May Cause More Tsunamis. No, That's Not Alarmism
[Link: www.treehugger.com...]
Et tu, Walter?
| 540 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:49:37am |
re: #534 Walter L. Newton
*eyeroll*
| 542 |
Lidane Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:50:06am |
Just got out of the Net Neutrality speech that Sen. Al Franken gave. Good stuff. Up next: breakfast. Heh.
| 543 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:50:24am |
re: #538 Sergey Romanov
There's something strange going on. It's not the first time I see "Reuters Middle East Watch" downding aigle who posts the CAMERA stuff.
huh, I usually just skim past their postings. I wonder what the issue is.
| 544 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:51:02am |
re: #538 Sergey Romanov
There's something strange going on. It's not the first time I see "Reuters Middle East Watch" downding aigle who posts the CAMERA stuff.
Like:
1Link rated by: Reuters Middle East WatchLink: Ha'aretz Buries Fogel Funeral
1Link rated by: Reuters Middle East Watch
Link: Israel to CNN: Apologize for Biased Coverage
(Those are downdings.)
| 545 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:51:28am |
re: #540 Sergey Romanov
*eyeroll*
Put your eyes back in your head. You may need them to find your lost sarcasm, because you certainly missed it.
| 546 |
The Left Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:51:57am |
re: #531 Killgore Trout
Beck On Japan Earthquake: "There's A Message Being Sent" From God
There sure is:
Dan Le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip - Letter from God
| 547 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:52:09am |
re: #544 Sergey Romanov
And another one just now. (S)he just goes through aigle and downdings. Wassup with that?
| 548 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:52:16am |
re: #537 Killgore Trout
He even implies it's because people aren't following the 10 commandments. Right out of Pat Robertson/Phelps' playbook.
I need to get up and do something else, I guess. I'm in no mood for idiocy today.
Last night, locally, some idiots who had been drinking and who were playing chase or tag with somebody else on the interstate, left the interstate and crashed into oncoming car, which immediately burst into flames killing all 5 people in the car, including a young child. When the firemen got the flames out, here's what was left of the car.
The idiots in the truck survived, barely apparently, they are in intensive care. Right now, I have exactly ZERO sympathy for them. Those poor people in that car were going about their business, and just happened to be in the way of some idiot who felt like his needs/wants were more important than theirs. And now they are dead. I'm so upset about this I could spit. This is a section of interstate my daughter has to travel on regularly. Just scary as hell.
| 549 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:52:32am |
| 550 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:53:03am |
re: #545 Walter L. Newton
Put your eyes back in your head. You may need them to find your lost sarcasm, because you certainly missed it.
*reverse eyeroll*
| 551 |
Interesting Times Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:56:08am |
re: #540 Sergey Romanov
If the point is to ridicule connections between climate change and earthquakes, however, see the update I posted on my latest page - note that's a NASA study. Eerily enough, I posted it before this earthquake took place.
| 552 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:56:13am |
re: #538 Sergey Romanov
There's something strange going on. It's not the first time I see "Reuters Middle East Watch" downding aigle who posts the CAMERA stuff.
I don't have much patience for posters like aigle and macondo who just spam the links with their blogs (not even bothering to post an excerpt) but never comment here.
| 553 |
Buck Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:58:15am |
'Family Guy' Writer: "Wanna Feel Better About Japan Quake - Google 'Pearl Harbor Death Toll'”
Read more: [Link: www.newsbusters.org...]
| 555 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:59:30am |
re: #553 Buck
'Family Guy' Writer: "Wanna Feel Better About Japan Quake - Google 'Pearl Harbor Death Toll'”
Read more: [Link: www.newsbusters.org...]
Cocksucker.
| 556 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 8:59:59am |
re: #551 publicityStunted
Nah, there's nothing analogous between these interpretations - even if faulty - and crazyspeak from Beck and Pat. Thus the eyeroll.
| 557 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:00:54am |
re: #548 reine.de.tout
I need to get up and do something else, I guess. I'm in no mood for idiocy today.
Last night, locally, some idiots who had been drinking and who were playing chase or tag with somebody else on the interstate, left the interstate and crashed into oncoming car, which immediately burst into flames killing all 5 people in the car, including a young child. When the firemen got the flames out, here's what was left of the car.
The idiots in the truck survived, barely apparently, they are in intensive care. Right now, I have exactly ZERO sympathy for them. Those poor people in that car were going about their business, and just happened to be in the way of some idiot who felt like his needs/wants were more important than theirs. And now they are dead. I'm so upset about this I could spit. This is a section of interstate my daughter has to travel on regularly. Just scary as hell.
oh geez, Rein. How horrible.
Yes, I can see how you have little patience today.
| 558 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:01:53am |
re: #557 ggt
oh geez, Rein. How horrible.
Yes, I can see how you have little patience today.
It's zero tolerance for idiots today.
| 559 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:02:54am |
This message from G-d crap.
You know, I don't think G-d communicates that way. I think he communicates thru baby smiles and dog tail wags.
| 560 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:05:07am |
If people believe in a personal G-d, why would he communicate in such an impersonal way?
| 561 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:06:45am |
re: #553 Buck
Well, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. (I didn't even click the link.)
| 562 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:09:02am |
re: #553 Buck
'Family Guy' Writer: "Wanna Feel Better About Japan Quake - Google 'Pearl Harbor Death Toll'”
Read more: [Link: www.newsbusters.org...]
"Family Guy" sucks.
| 563 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:09:18am |
re: #561 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Well, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. (I didn't even click the link.)
really!
I didn't click the link either.
| 564 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:10:12am |
| 565 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:11:14am |
re: #562 Alouette
I think that Family Guy's funny. I'm just glad it wasn't Seth MacFarlane.
| 566 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:11:53am |
re: #561 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Well, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. (I didn't even click the link.)
I'm thinking that the next step is the claim that all this is part of an insidious Japanese plot for the Main Islands to sneak up on, and *ram* Pearl Harbor. 10cm at a time, and many thousands of years in the future... The ultimate kamikaze attack as one's whole country descends upon the enemy at once.
//
| 567 |
laZardo Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:11:58am |
re: #565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Oh, Family Guy Writer. Good catch.
| 568 |
laZardo Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:12:40am |
re: #566 oaktree
I'm thinking that the next step is the claim that all this is part of an insidious Japanese plot for the Main Islands to sneak up on, and *ram* Pearl Harbor. 10cm at a time, and many thousands of years in the future... The ultimate kamikaze attack as one's whole country descends upon the enemy at once.
//
They already got us back for getting them back for Pearl Harbor by giving us animé.
/and yes, I did think of Chinpokomon.
| 569 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:13:12am |
| 570 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:13:26am |
re: #566 oaktree
Dammit, I nearly spewed my drink while reading that! LOL
| 572 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:14:13am |
re: #565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I think that Family Guy's funny. I'm just glad it wasn't Seth MacFarlane.
Family Guy sucks, in fact all the Fox cartoon shows (except for Simpsons) suck. South Park and Simpsons rule.
| 573 |
Varek Raith Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:14:32am |
Fuel rods in earthquake-damaged Japanese nuclear reactor have become exposed again, Kyodo News agency reports.
| 574 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:14:34am |
re: #568 laZardo
They already got us back for getting them back for Pearl Harbor by giving us animé.
/and yes, I did think of Chinpokomon.
I thought the Bomb pretty much took care of that score and then some.
why bring up past history that has been turned into a positive for both countries?
| 575 |
abolitionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:14:43am |
re: #536 lawhawk
Besides the reactor cooling issues, the same power and coolant shortages affect the pools in which spent fuel rods are stored. Uncovered, these would overheat too. It is my understanding that these pools are typically located above the reactors.
| 576 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:15:14am |
re: #572 Alouette
You shouldn't hold back so much. You'll get ulcers.
| 578 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:16:14am |
re: #576 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
You shouldn't hold back so much. You'll get ulcers.
And the Cleveland Show blows.
| 579 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:16:23am |
re: #572 Alouette
Futurama is awesome as well.
And Archer is disturbing as hell, but brilliant.
Best of all is Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law.
| 580 |
Varek Raith Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:17:00am |
re: #579 Obdicut
Futurama is awesome as well.
And Archer is disturbing as hell, but brilliant.
Best of all is Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law.
HAHAHA last laugh!
| 581 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:17:11am |
re: #579 Obdicut
Futurama is awesome as well.
And Archer is disturbing as hell, but brilliant.
Best of all is Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law.
Mat Groening: rules
Seth McFarlane: drools
| 582 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:17:19am |
re: #578 Alouette
Any Adult Swim series?
| 583 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:17:49am |
| 585 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:18:59am |
In honor of pi day, I've decided to buy everyone a morning round:
| 586 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:19:08am |
| 587 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:19:37am |
re: #583 Alouette
I think you'd appreciate the insanity of Harvey Birdman.
| 589 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:19:48am |
CNN: Fuel rods in earthquake-damaged Japanese nuclear reactor have become exposed again, Kyodo News agency reports.
| 590 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:20:09am |
re: #579 Obdicut
It's hilarious what they can get away with on Archer.
| 591 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:20:55am |
re: #590 lawhawk
And yet it's not descending into total gross-out pastiche, like I feel Aqua Teen Hunger Force did.
| 592 |
Buck Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:21:35am |
Experts at the NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) led by geophysicist Richard Gross have determined that Friday's devastating 8.9-magnitude earthquake in north-eastern Japan was powerful enough to shift the Earth's axis by about 6.5 inches (17 centimetres). Our planet's rotation may have also accelerated, shortening the length of the day.
Everyone reset your Japan GPS maps.
Also if the rotation is increased, the stationary satellites are all going to have to be fixed....
[Link: www.onenewspage.com...]
| 593 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:23:09am |
double WOW!
How A Son's Betrayal Brought Down Chicago's Mob
"He used to like to talk in the bathroom with the fan going and the water running in case there was any kind of bugs in the house," says Frank Jr. "I could just see his adrenaline going. And he was telling me that they killed somebody. And the reason they did it was because the guy was dealing drugs and he was disobeying his boss. He's telling me this and I'm thinking 'Is this what other kids hear when they come home and their father comes home from work?'"
But Frank Calabrese Sr. was no ordinary father. He was one of the central figures in the Chicago mafia and responsible for a series of loansharking and illegal gambling operations. He was also suspected of murdering several people — but the FBI didn't have the evidence to pin those crimes on him.
In 1997, Frank Sr. was sent to prison along with his brother Nick and Frank Jr. on a series of racketeering charges. The feds had enough evidence to keep him in jail for 118 months — meaning Frank Sr. would have been a free man when he turned 70.
But then Frank Jr. wrote a letter the FBI, offering to help bring down his father's murderous Chicago crime family.
"[I wrote that] I didn't want immunity. I didn't want any kind of deal. I didn't want to lose any time but I want[ed] to help [the government] keep my father locked up."
| 594 |
Kronocide Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:23:35am |
re: #564 Alouette
It's Newsbusters. They suck too.
Of course Newsbusters loved it, a chance to build on the liberal Hollywood jerk meme, noting he dated Sarah Silverman.
But it was a seriously offensive thing to say.
| 595 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:23:54am |
Fox Nation links to Alex Jones: U.S. West Coast in Path of Japan Nuke Fallout
Read the full story at prisonplanet-dot-com
| 596 |
Varek Raith Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:24:12am |
re: #595 Killgore Trout
Fox Nation links to Alex Jones: U.S. West Coast in Path of Japan Nuke Fallout
Oh geez.
| 597 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:24:14am |
re: #587 Obdicut
I think you'd appreciate the insanity of Harvey Birdman.
Is that on Fox or Comedy channel? I had to cancel my cable subscription, can't get comedy channel any more.
| 598 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:24:31am |
re: #591 Obdicut
And yet it's not descending into total gross-out pastiche, like I feel Aqua Teen Hunger Force did.
"I'll call him Hand-Banana."
"Tonight...you."
"HAHAHA...What?"
| 599 |
theheat Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:25:39am |
re: #548 reine.de.tout
Last fall I witnessed a boy die in the street after the van he was in was hit by a drunk driver. Dumb kid wasnt wearing a seat belt, and he was ejected into the street. I was one of the first people to come to the intersection when it happened, so I was right there first in line to see everything, with no way to turn around or exit.
I watched the paramedics try to bring him back, then finally give up. The man who administered CPR reached down and held the boy's hand for moment, as a gesture of comfort, and that's when I burst into tears. I had been so hopeful.
Poor kid died in the street because a group of assholes were drunk and speeding, and it was all over in the blink of an eye. Saying "Sorry" doesn't cut it, and it doesn't bring the victims back.
| 600 |
William Barnett-Lewis Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:25:43am |
re: #553 Buck
'Family Guy' Writer: "Wanna Feel Better About Japan Quake - Google 'Pearl Harbor Death Toll'”
Read more: [Link: www.newsbusters.org...]
I'm reminded why I hate TV. Ignorant [censored].
| 601 |
Simply Sarah Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:26:16am |
re: #591 Obdicut
And yet it's not descending into total gross-out pastiche, like I feel Aqua Teen Hunger Force did.
I never really understood the hype around ATHF. Granted, I didn't see the early stuff, but when I did watch some of it, I generally didn't care much for it. Sure, some things were clever, but much of it just seemed really stupid. The best I can say about it is that it at least seemed better than "Tom Goes To The Who The Hell Thought It Was A Good Idea To Give You Guys A TV Show?"/
| 602 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:26:37am |
re: #598 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"I'll call him Hand-Banana."
"Tonight...you."
"HAHAHA...What?"
The inflatable Hitler: "Embrace me, and we will work together to put our differences aside so we may once and for all, DESTROY THE GAYS!" *pop*
| 604 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:27:14am |
re: #601 Simply Sarah
I never really understood the hype around ATHF. Granted, I didn't see the early stuff, but when I did watch some of it, I generally didn't care much for it. Sure, some things were clever, but much of it just seemed really stupid. The best I can say about it is that it at least seemed better than "Tom Goes To The Who The Hell Thought It Was A Good Idea To Give You Guys A TV Show?"/
I never understood Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or, especially, Power Rangers.
I figured they were just a marketing tool to sell advertising and licensed toy products.
| 605 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:28:15am |
re: #596 Varek Raith
Oh geez.
9-11 Truther Andrew Napolitano interviewed Sarah Palin this weekend on Fox. The Truthers have been completely accepted by the wingnuts.
| 606 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:28:59am |
#
1552: Japan has officially asked the UN nuclear watchdog the IAEA for experts to help in the current nuclear crisis, AFP reports, citing IAEA chief Yukiya Amano.
Sounds like Japan needs all the help they can get. Good luck to them.
| 607 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:31:51am |
re: #604 ggt
I never understood Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or, especially, Power Rangers.
Just remember that the original Ninja Turtles were psychotic killers. The pizza and surfer dude talk was just meant to sell it to the kids.
| 608 |
theheat Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:32:09am |
re: #605 Killgore Trout
9-11 Truther Andrew Napolitano interviewed Sarah Palin this weekend on Fox. The Truthers have been completely accepted by the wingnuts.
Wow, and Sarah is usually so careful about who she speaks to.
And who she campaigns for.
And who ghostwrites her books.
//
| 609 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:32:19am |
re: #597 Alouette
For me, it's on Netflix. I don't have any TV but what I get from netflix and other stuff through our Roku.
Netflix is like $9 a month. Well worth it. Roku is one-time cost of $60-$100.
[Link: www.roku.com...]
| 610 |
Simply Sarah Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:32:35am |
re: #604 ggt
I never understood Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or, especially, Power Rangers.
I figured they were just a marketing tool to sell advertising and licensed toy products.
Well...yeah, they largely were. That said, at least those shows could be, uh, entertaining at times.
| 611 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:34:51am |
Drudge is linking to Alex Jones this morning too "USA West Coast in Path of 'Fallout'?". The wingnuts are send so much traffic they've almost crashed his site.
| 612 |
abolitionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:36:01am |
re: #611 Killgore Trout
Drudge is linking to Alex Jones this morning too "USA West Coast in Path of 'Fallout'?". The wingnuts are send so much traffic they've almost crashed his site.
Hey, the East Coast is too. //
| 613 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:36:31am |
re: #611 Killgore Trout
God, what counterproductive jackasses they are.
| 614 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:36:56am |
re: #611 Killgore Trout
Drudge is linking to Alex Jones this morning too "USA West Coast in Path of 'Fallout'?". The wingnuts are send so much traffic they've almost crashed his site.
How long before he announces Vault-Tec is a proud sponsor?
| 615 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:39:44am |
re: #614 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
How long before he announces Vault-Tec is a proud sponsor?
Or the City of Berkeley's nutjob anti-nuclear-at-all-costs front, for that matter.
| 616 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:40:10am |
Japanese workers clearing streets in Asahi city:
One of the things I read earlier today was that when the tsunami warnings were first made, people rushed to the tsunami evacuation points in some towns, but they turned out to be still too close to the shore/low lying areas to avoid being swept away and that some people might not have heard the warnings to get to higher evacuation points. With waves over 10m tall, it overwhelmed everything in its path for miles inland.
Entire buildings are floating by seemingly intact, which are then churned into bits by the roaring wave action.
| 617 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:43:49am |
#
1640: As fears grow of a meltdown at the Fukushima plant, officials in the Philippines are warning residents not to believe hoax messages reporting a meltdown has already happened with radiation dangers for neighbouring countries.
| 618 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:44:01am |
Oil Prices Continue To Slide As Japan Economy Hit
"Oil prices fell Monday as analysts sorted out how much the disaster in Japan will affect global energy demand, but U.S. gasoline prices rose to a national average of $3.56 per gallon, up about 5 cents from a week ago.Japan, the world's third-largest oil consumer, was hit Friday with a devastating earthquake and tsunami. Some parts of northeastern Japan are still without electricity. Three of five major oil refineries have shut down, and authorities are still trying to stabilize damaged nuclear plants.
Analysts expect the country's energy demand will fall in the short-term. Japan will likely compensate for the shutdown of nuclear power plants by running other generators with oil, which should boost crude imports.
Benchmark West Texas Intermediate for April delivery fell $1.05 to $100.10 per barrel in morning trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Earlier it dropped below $99. In London Brent crude lost 19 cents at $113.65 on the ICE Futures exchange."
The price of gas is a conundrum I'll never work-out.
| 619 |
dmon Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:45:16am |
re: #616 lawhawk
I was always struck by the newsreel footage of Japan after the atomic bombs were dropped, huge piles of debris everywhere but the streets were meticulously cleared, not a path, cleared curb to curb. I've been seeing the same thing the last few days after the tsunami.
Japanese culture is very organized.
| 620 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:45:38am |
re: #618 ggt
The demand for oil is going to be lower since Japan's economy is going to be hard-hit by this. All of those housholds up there that used heating oil, all the industry that supplied them, all the infrastructure that depended on it, all the cars, all the industry that directly used oil; that's all gone right now.
The rest of Japan will suffer lower demand as well, as efforts are turned towards reconstruction.
| 621 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:46:08am |
re: #611 Killgore Trout
A little bit of knowledge and a whole lot of crazy is a dangerous thing.
Thanos' page is a good primer on keeping the nuclear emergency in perspective, and the IAEA currently ranks this as a category 4 event on a 7 point scale (Chernobyl being a 7). TMI was a 5. The Fukushima reactors might have an actual partial meltdown involving the fuel rods melting and causing additional problems, but thus far the containment vessels appear to be holding. *fingers crossed*
| 622 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:48:15am |
re: #621 lawhawk
A little bit of knowledge and a whole lot of crazy is a dangerous thing.
Thanos' page is a good primer on keeping the nuclear emergency in perspective, and the IAEA currently ranks this as a category 4 event on a 7 point scale (Chernobyl being a 7). TMI was a 5. The Fukushima reactors might have an actual partial meltdown involving the fuel rods melting and causing additional problems, but thus far the containment vessels appear to be holding. *fingers crossed*
It's really hard to sort out the news. The MSM is doing a terrible job keeping up with events and sorting out the potential dangers. I kind of gave up and I'm just hoping for the best.
| 623 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:49:40am |
re: #622 Killgore Trout
It's really hard to sort out the news. The MSM is doing a terrible job keeping up with events and sorting out the potential dangers. I kind of gave up and I'm just hoping for the best.
I think most of the journalists are as clueless as the public about anything nuclear.
My Dad (The Engineer) could have explained it in language I could understand.
| 624 |
Simply Sarah Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:50:28am |
re: #622 Killgore Trout
It's really hard to sort out the news. The MSM is doing a terrible job keeping up with events and sorting out the potential dangers. I kind of gave up and I'm just hoping for the best.
To be fair, they can only go on what they're being told, and information on what's going on at the plants seems to be spotty, at best. With the lack of information, it has turned into a lot of hand wringing, speculation, and jumping at every new thing (OK, those *are* the fault of the MSM).
| 625 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:51:19am |
#
1648: Yukiya Amano, head of the UN's nuclear watchdog, says Fukushima's reactor vessels "have held and radioactive release is limited" despite the effects of the earthquake and tsunami.
| 626 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:53:18am |
re: #624 Simply Sarah
To be fair, they can only go on what they're being told, and information on what's going on at the plants seems to be spotty, at best. With the lack of information, it has turned into a lot of hand wringing, speculation, and jumping at every new thing (OK, those *are* the fault of the MSM).
I think those directly involved are too busy to stop and explain it to ANYONE. It's not like they have the luxury of appointing a public spokesman to interface with the press right now.
In truth, I think this is all most of us can do. Hope and Pray for the people of Japan and those trying to deal with the chaos right now.
| 627 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:54:45am |
There's the IAEA's page for updates on the nuclear issues in Japan:
[Link: www.iaea.org...]
| 628 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:56:22am |
Hey all. Anyone here take anti-depressants before?
| 629 |
BishopX Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:57:05am |
re: #622 Killgore Trout
It's really hard to sort out the news. The MSM is doing a terrible job keeping up with events and sorting out the potential dangers. I kind of gave up and I'm just hoping for the best.
The NYTimes as a good article detailing what's going on in the reactor cores, how they were built and what the various terms mean. I found it helpful.
| 630 |
Interesting Times Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:57:16am |
re: #628 Jadespring
Hey all. Anyone here take anti-depressants before?
I have. No longer do, due to nasty side effects.
| 631 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:57:47am |
| 632 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:58:58am |
re: #622 Killgore Trout
It's really hard to sort out the news. The MSM is doing a terrible job keeping up with events and sorting out the potential dangers. I kind of gave up and I'm just hoping for the best.
The MSM alternates between headlines claiming a meltdown in progress and reporting on the explosions as a sign that a meltdown is imminent.
I don't have any special insight into what's going on - but based on what I've read, the Japanese govt and TEPCO are claiming that containment is holding on the reactor cores - that's the most important thing. If they can hold containment, then the crisis can be averted.
It is possible that the cores have partially or full melted within the containment vessels due to lack of coolant, but the reactor vessels may be able to contain that (and did when the TMI reactor suffered a partial meltdown) - Chernobyl lacked a containment vessel due to the design of the RBMK reactor - so that when the building exploded, the core components were flung in all directions and the explosion sent the radioisotopes in to the air downwind of the plant, eventually reaching the Scandinavian countries, which sounded the alarm of a major event in the Soviet Union.
The real issue is can they hold containment and if it fails, then those downwind could potentially be exposed to radioactive particles from the core, including cesium 137, iodine (which is why the Japanese are stockpiling iodine tablets to prevent iodine uptake in to the thyroid), and other radioisotopes created during a nuclear reaction. Exposure would then a function of the kinds of isotopes released, the half life of the particles, and the size.
| 633 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Mar 14, 2011 9:59:30am |
re: #618 ggt
Oil Prices Continue To Slide As Japan Economy Hit
The price of gas is a conundrum I'll never work-out.
As a former employee of a refining company I learned a lot by osmosis about gasoline and refining product pricing. (And outside of the refining part itself there's a lot little tweaks involving demand, transportation costs, local storage, etc.)
But at the refining side in the US there are at least three things going on regarding gasoline production:
1. What are the current costs regarding required additives (such as ethanol for instance)*
2. What are the production capacities and inventory compared to immediate and projected short-term demand.
3. Given a barrel of oil - what is currently the most profitable set of products I can make from it.
#3 is pretty much the ruling factor. If aviation fuel is the key part of the most profitable crack spread then avgas will be producted rather than regular fuel. Until there is enough avgas on the market and/or regular gas wholesale prices rise far enough to make that the more profitable spread.
*- Gasoline additivie laws in the US are so different by locale that gasoline is essentially a "specialty chemical". And since the ethanol is corrosive in storage it is often not added until the fuel is in a local storage facility in any case. Plus, I've seen some numbers that for some refiners the ethanol cost was an appreciable part (like ~25%) of the fuel production cost.
| 634 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:00:11am |
re: #632 lawhawk
The MSM alternates between headlines claiming a meltdown in progress and reporting on the explosions as a sign that a meltdown is imminent.
I don't have any special insight into what's going on - but based on what I've read, the Japanese govt and TEPCO are claiming that containment is holding on the reactor cores - that's the most important thing. If they can hold containment, then the crisis can be averted.
It is possible that the cores have partially or full melted within the containment vessels due to lack of coolant, but the reactor vessels may be able to contain that (and did when the TMI reactor suffered a partial meltdown) - Chernobyl lacked a containment vessel due to the design of the RBMK reactor - so that when the building exploded, the core components were flung in all directions and the explosion sent the radioisotopes in to the air downwind of the plant, eventually reaching the Scandinavian countries, which sounded the alarm of a major event in the Soviet Union.
The real issue is can they hold containment and if it fails, then those downwind could potentially be exposed to radioactive particles from the core, including cesium 137, iodine (which is why the Japanese are stockpiling iodine tablets to prevent iodine uptake in to the thyroid), and other radioisotopes created during a nuclear reaction. Exposure would then a function of the kinds of isotopes released, the half life of the particles, and the size.
If it were the USA, the MSM and politicans would be telling us how badly we are handling it and how wrong we were to have nuclear in the first place. . . .
| 635 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:01:56am |
re: #633 oaktree
As a former employee of a refining company I learned a lot by osmosis about gasoline and refining product pricing. (And outside of the refining part itself there's a lot little tweaks involving demand, transportation costs, local storage, etc.)
But at the refining side in the US there are at least three things going on regarding gasoline production:
1. What are the current costs regarding required additives (such as ethanol for instance)*
2. What are the production capacities and inventory compared to immediate and projected short-term demand.
3. Given a barrel of oil - what is currently the most profitable set of products I can make from it.#3 is pretty much the ruling factor. If aviation fuel is the key part of the most profitable crack spread then avgas will be producted rather than regular fuel. Until there is enough avgas on the market and/or regular gas wholesale prices rise far enough to make that the more profitable spread.
*- Gasoline additivie laws in the US are so different by locale that gasoline is essentially a "specialty chemical". And since the ethanol is corrosive in storage it is often not added until the fuel is in a local storage facility in any case. Plus, I've seen some numbers that for some refiners the ethanol cost was an appreciable part (like ~25%) of the fuel production cost.
I watched the annual C-SPAN showing of the House hearings on the price of gas a few years ago. I decided the hearings were basically a dog and pony show to satisfy public confusion. It is so complex.
| 636 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:03:41am |
#
1656: The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission says that Japan has asked the US for help with cooling its damaged nuclear reactors, Reuters reports.
| 637 |
dmon Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:05:04am |
You just can't make this stuff up.
Wisconsin State Senator’s Wife Joins Recall Effort Against Him
[Link: nymag.com...]
| 638 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:05:51am |
Oh, this is awesome.
As I mentioned, my friend's younger sister tried to kill herself.
The hospital, it turns out, released her after this, even though she explicitly said she wished that it had worked and they judged her to be a harm to herself and others.
The reason given was that they had no psychiatric beds, due to budget cuts.
This is Arizona.
Anyone know if a hospital can actually discharge someone they determine to be a danger to themselves? Is that allowed?
| 639 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:05:54am |
| 640 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:06:42am |
re: #638 Obdicut
Oh, this is awesome.
As I mentioned, my friend's younger sister tried to kill herself.
The hospital, it turns out, released her after this, even though she explicitly said she wished that it had worked and they judged her to be a harm to herself and others.
The reason given was that they had no psychiatric beds, due to budget cuts.
This is Arizona.
Anyone know if a hospital can actually discharge someone they determine to be a danger to themselves? Is that allowed?
Depends on the laws of the State. Seems unlikely tho. They'd have to contact social services, at least . . . .
| 641 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:07:03am |
| 642 |
jaunte Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:07:04am |
re: #637 dmon
You just can't make this stuff up.
Wisconsin State Senator’s Wife Joins Recall Effort Against Him
[Link: nymag.com...]
That does sound like an Onion story. 'Randy Hopper' indeed.
| 643 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:08:13am |
re: #639 Jadespring
I used Wellbutrin to quit smoking and it gave me the side effect of being incredibly annoyingly cheerful. Somehow I figure that's not your deal.
| 644 |
dmon Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:08:32am |
re: #638 Obdicut
Obi,
Can't speak for AZ, her in Ohio a hospital can hold someone (pink slip them) for evalaution for 48 hrs, more than that requires a judge's order.
I would think a hospital releasing someone they determine to be a risk before the legal time would open them to liabity
| 645 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:08:50am |
re: #638 Obdicut
Oh, this is awesome.
As I mentioned, my friend's younger sister tried to kill herself.
The hospital, it turns out, released her after this, even though she explicitly said she wished that it had worked and they judged her to be a harm to herself and others.
The reason given was that they had no psychiatric beds, due to budget cuts.
This is Arizona.
Anyone know if a hospital can actually discharge someone they determine to be a danger to themselves? Is that allowed?
seems they'd have to find a bed for her at another facility.
Something is definitely hinky here.
So sorry you and your friend and his sister are going thru this.
| 646 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:09:04am |
re: #635 ggt
I watched the annual C-SPAN showing of the House hearings on the price of gas a few years ago. I decided the hearings were basically a dog and pony show to satisfy public confusion. It is so complex.
Correct. Which is why I'm very suspicious of any group or politician offering "simple solutions" to just about any issue. Once you start digging the complex inter-relations and add-on effects show up and the so-called "solution" is obviously unworkable. At that point you need to decide what the motive was for the group publicizing that particular approach in the first place.
| 648 |
Simply Sarah Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:10:48am |
re: #638 Obdicut
Oh, this is awesome.
As I mentioned, my friend's younger sister tried to kill herself.
The hospital, it turns out, released her after this, even though she explicitly said she wished that it had worked and they judged her to be a harm to herself and others.
The reason given was that they had no psychiatric beds, due to budget cuts.
This is Arizona.
Anyone know if a hospital can actually discharge someone they determine to be a danger to themselves? Is that allowed?
Doing that dangerous thing were I make a statement on basically 100% speculation, it may be possible that she was released on grounds that they had no room and the beds they did have were filled with high-risk patients. Doesn't make it right or wise or anything close to that, though...
| 649 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:10:59am |
re: #646 oaktree
Correct. Which is why I'm very suspicious of any group or politician offering "simple solutions" to just about any issue. Once you start digging the complex inter-relations and add-on effects show up and the so-called "solution" is obviously unworkable. At that point you need to decide what the motive was for the group publicizing that particular approach in the first place.
Every spring the price of gas goes up (due to the change in formulation). then the House holds hearings on the price-of-gas. Everyone complains as tho they price of gas has never fluxuated before . . .
It is historically high right now, but it will fluxuate yet again.
| 650 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:11:28am |
re: #647 Jadespring
How do I make my nic blue for email?
click the box at the top of the post area by the "log out" button when you reply to this post.
| 651 |
Interesting Times Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:12:23am |
re: #639 Jadespring
If it's not to personal what side effects did you get?
Effexor (an SSRI) worked for a while, but then had a kind of "deadening" effect on me. I did something dumb and quit it cold turkey, which resulted in nasty, nasty withdrawal symptoms (the most vivid being "brain shivers" - hard to explain what this is like, but you kind of hear a sound like rushing water, get extremely dizzy, and your brain feels as if it's pulsating inside your head. I got them several times an hour, then several times a day, then a few times per week, until they finally dwindled down to nothing).
I also tried Lamictal, and though it worked better than Effexor, it started to cause hair loss (lucky for me I had really thick hair to start out with, otherwise I could have wound up with bald spots. After I quit - tapering off this time, instead of cold turkey - the hair loss stopped, and it all grew back).
Which med were you considering?
| 652 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:12:52am |
re: #638 Obdicut
It's going to depend on the state's voluntary/involuntary confinement laws.
There are procedures to get involuntary confinement if you can prove that he or she is a threat to themselves or others, so the family could contact the courts to see that she is confined until the threat has passed.
You might be able to get more info from the health professionals listed here.
| 653 |
BishopX Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:13:12am |
re: #642 jaunte
That does sound like an Onion story. 'Randy Hopper' indeed.
Randy hopper is currently living with his mistress in Madison. His mistress, a 25 year old former state senate staffer, is currently employed by a right wing advocacy group with an innuendo rich name, Persuasion Partners inc.
| 654 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:13:50am |
re: #653 BishopX
Randy hopper is currently living with his mistress in Madison. His mistress, a 25 year old former state senate staffer, is currently employed by a right wing advocacy group with an innuendo rich name, Persuasion Partners inc.
Truth is stranger than the Onion?
| 655 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:13:51am |
re: #645 ggt
Meh. It's not really something I'm going through, except to try to be a good friend to him. He's one of those 'bottle it up inside' types.
re: #652 lawhawk
They held her for 24 hours and then said they couldn't hold her beyond that. I guess maybe that's the law, and they need to get a judge's order.
She's in such a state that I worry about her harming the kids.
| 657 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:14:45am |
re: #650 ggt
click the box at the top of the post area by the "log out" button when you reply to this post.
Cool thanks.
| 658 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:15:20am |
re: #632 lawhawk
The MSM alternates between headlines claiming a meltdown in progress and reporting on the explosions as a sign that a meltdown is imminent.
I don't have any special insight into what's going on - but based on what I've read, the Japanese govt and TEPCO are claiming that containment is holding on the reactor cores - that's the most important thing. If they can hold containment, then the crisis can be averted.
It is possible that the cores have partially or full melted within the containment vessels due to lack of coolant, but the reactor vessels may be able to contain that (and did when the TMI reactor suffered a partial meltdown) - Chernobyl lacked a containment vessel due to the design of the RBMK reactor - so that when the building exploded, the core components were flung in all directions and the explosion sent the radioisotopes in to the air downwind of the plant, eventually reaching the Scandinavian countries, which sounded the alarm of a major event in the Soviet Union.
The real issue is can they hold containment and if it fails, then those downwind could potentially be exposed to radioactive particles from the core, including cesium 137, iodine (which is why the Japanese are stockpiling iodine tablets to prevent iodine uptake in to the thyroid), and other radioisotopes created during a nuclear reaction. Exposure would then a function of the kinds of isotopes released, the half life of the particles, and the size.
The other interesting long-term thing is that introducing sea water into the core to cool it means you have given up on salvaging that core. The reactor is effectively destroyed. So Japan is, in effect, scrapping a significant fraction of its base load generating capacity as a result of the EQ/tsunami. that will be a problem for them for quite a while.
| 659 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:17:10am |
| 660 |
Simply Sarah Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:17:40am |
re: #658 garhighway
Which all makes it really, really, really clear just how serious the situation is.
| 661 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:17:55am |
gotta get ready to go run errands
sigh
Have a great afternoon all!
| 662 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:18:11am |
re: #660 Simply Sarah
Which all makes it really, really, really clear just how serious the situation is.
Exactly. You don't scrag the core if you have better choices.
| 663 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:19:07am |
re: #658 garhighway
From what I read, Fukushima Daiichi's #1 reactor (the one that had that hydrogen explosion Saturday) was going to be shut down sometime this month, though there were thoughts on trying to extend its use for a while longer. Obviously, the choice is now out of their hands.
There are plans for two new reactors at the plant in a few years, sometime around 2013 or so, but with the loss of two other reactors (Daiichi has a total of 7 reactors), their power generating ability has been severely cut.
| 664 |
wee fury Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:19:28am |
The people of Japan are well mannered and polite to each other in their society. Those traits are imbedded into the fabric of their culture.
| 665 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:20:11am |
re: #658 garhighway
I think some of the delay initially in the response to the coolant problem was to salvage the reactors, and when those failed, they were left with an option that will effectively mean the end of these reactors as a power generating source.
Reactor 1 was actually scheduled to shut down in February but had its operating license extended 10 years, but the other 2 reactors at Fukushima that are in a nuclear emergency were going to continue operating well into the future. The Fukushima complex generated 4.7 gigawatts of power - and that can't be easily made up.
Another thing that is lost on people is that had this been a LNG or a coal powered plant, the possibility of a catastrophic explosion from the quake could have been significant - causing a tremendous loss of life at the outset of the tsunami, rather than a prolonged crisis. There are dangers will power sources that are commonly used to generate much of the world's power - and it took a 9.0 quake and a massive tsunami to reveal major flaws in the backup systems for the reactors (the reactors themselves survived both intact).
| 666 |
Shropshire_Slasher Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:20:54am |
re: #664 wee fury
I guess we could learn a thing or two from them.
| 667 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:21:27am |
re: #651 publicityStunted
Effexor (an SSRI) worked for a while, but then had a kind of "deadening" effect on me. I did something dumb and quit it cold turkey, which resulted in nasty, nasty withdrawal symptoms (the most vivid being "brain shivers" - hard to explain what this is like, but you kind of hear a sound like rushing water, get extremely dizzy, and your brain feels as if it's pulsating inside your head. I got them several times an hour, then several times a day, then a few times per week, until they finally dwindled down to nothing).
I also tried Lamictal, and though it worked better than Effexor, it started to cause hair loss (lucky for me I had really thick hair to start out with, otherwise I could have wound up with bald spots. After I quit - tapering off this time, instead of cold turkey - the hair loss stopped, and it all grew back).
Which med were you considering?
My doc gave me effexor to try. First time I've ever taken a any of these types of pills. I don't like pills and have done everything possible to try to avoid that route but it was failing to work. Unfortunately it looks like I have the family curse too...Grandparents, parents and siblings who have all had problems to a certain extent. Though the doc thinks mine is more realted to a Seasonal Affective Disorder because it happens mostly in the winter and every winter I seem to be hit with it worse. All the non- pill routes don't see to work though...frustrating because intellectually I know what's going on (seen it with my family) but am unable to stop it. Finally gave in a said okay I'll try a pill because it's getting ridiculous.
| 668 |
The Yankee Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:22:20am |
Hey morbid curiosity if an atom has less neutrons then protons is that atom an Isotope or something else. And what are they use for?
| 669 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:23:36am |
re: #665 lawhawk
I think some of the delay initially in the response to the coolant problem was to salvage the reactors, and when those failed, they were left with an option that will effectively mean the end of these reactors as a power generating source.
Reactor 1 was actually scheduled to shut down in February but had its operating license extended 10 years, but the other 2 reactors at Fukushima that are in a nuclear emergency were going to continue operating well into the future. The Fukushima complex generated 4.7 gigawatts of power - and that can't be easily made up.
Another thing that is lost on people is that had this been a LNG or a coal powered plant, the possibility of a catastrophic explosion from the quake could have been significant - causing a tremendous loss of life at the outset of the tsunami, rather than a prolonged crisis. There are dangers will power sources that are commonly used to generate much of the world's power - and it took a 9.0 quake and a massive tsunami to reveal major flaws in the backup systems for the reactors (the reactors themselves survived both intact).
I gather that this event has highlighted the need to view an EQ event in conjunction with a tsunami when designing these plants. They survived the actual quake OK, but the tsunami-related flooding has made it impossible to re-establish normal cooling, and that is the real problem.
| 670 |
Varek Raith Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:24:29am |
| 671 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:24:49am |
re: #655 Obdicut
I'm real sorry to hear that and if you and her family are concerned about her safety or the safety of her kids, then contacting the court for an involuntary order seems prudent.
This kind of thing makes for real ugly situations and the police hate these situations like no other - and they often can't do anything because the person has yet to harm themselves or others, and may be coherent/sane enough to avoid being taken to the hospital.
Good luck in a real sucky situation.
| 672 |
Interesting Times Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:25:24am |
re: #667 Jadespring
Though the doc thinks mine is more realted to a Seasonal Affective Disorder because it happens mostly in the winter and every winter I seem to be hit with it worse. All the non- pill routes don't see to work though...frustrating because intellectually I know what's going on (seen it with my family) but am unable to stop it. Finally gave in a said okay I'll try a pill because it's getting ridiculous.
Sorry to hear that :( I can tell you what has worked for me, so far (knock wood) - a daily regimen of 1000 mg Vitamin D, three salmon oil capsules (can't remember mg total offhand), and 100 mg B-Complex. I also have Zopiclone I take occasionally for insomnia, because I've noticed that lack of sleep really triggers episodes for me.
Perhaps the "sunshine vitamin" might help you with SAD symptoms? Have you tried it?
| 673 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:25:31am |
re: #638 Obdicut
Oh, this is awesome.
As I mentioned, my friend's younger sister tried to kill herself.
The hospital, it turns out, released her after this, even though she explicitly said she wished that it had worked and they judged her to be a harm to herself and others.
The reason given was that they had no psychiatric beds, due to budget cuts.
This is Arizona.
Anyone know if a hospital can actually discharge someone they determine to be a danger to themselves? Is that allowed?
This why it's such a joke when people say "why didn't someone get him help?" in regard to some mentally ill gunman who shoots a bunch of people. I'm bipolar with no health insurance. Help is as hard as hell to get when you want it badly and have the wherewithal to deal dozens of different applications to dozens of different places and turning all your financial information over to anyone that asks and then waiting for a couple months.
I've been stable for over ten years and hope I stay that way because it's a struggle to deal with all the paperwork when my brain is working right. There is no way a person with broken brain could do it.
State psych hospitals are useless anyway. They do no therapy. They just watch you and keep you drugged until you're too out of it to care anymore and send you home with the IQ of a carrot. Real treatment after a suicide attempt costs at minimum $20k a week and insurance pays 3/4ths of it if you're lucky.
| 674 |
BishopX Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:25:43am |
re: #667 Jadespring
I would have a really serious talk with your doc effexor specifically, it can be a really bad match for some people, and getting off it can be a pain in the ass because of the withdrawal symptoms.
I'm in the same boat as you are in terms of the family curse angle, although I think I'm still a ways from medicating. Sucks doesn't it?
| 675 |
Simply Sarah Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:26:01am |
re: #668 The Yankee
Hey morbid curiosity if an atom has less neutrons then protons is that atom an Isotope or something else. And what are they use for?
The number of protons is what determines which element the atom is. The number of neutrons determines which isotope of the element it is.
I'm not sure how to respond to your second question, though. Various isotopes of elements can do different things, some which we have uses for, others we don't.
| 676 |
abolitionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:26:37am |
re: #668 The Yankee
Hey morbid curiosity if an atom has less neutrons then protons is that atom an Isotope or something else. And what are they use for?
If it has fewer neutrons than protons, it's going to be very unstable --very short half-life. ALL elements are isotopes. The term refers to variations in the number of neutrons, for any particular number of protons.
| 677 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:26:38am |
re: #668 The Yankee
Hey morbid curiosity if an atom has less neutrons then protons is that atom an Isotope or something else. And what are they use for?
Here you go...
[Link: wiki.answers.com...]
| 678 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:27:00am |
My fridge broke.
My "President's Choice Maine Blueberry Cheesecake Ice-Cream"?
Melted.
Putting Japan in context... this is only semi-tragic.
/
| 679 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:27:54am |
re: #667 Jadespring
My doc gave me effexor to try. First time I've ever taken a any of these types of pills. I don't like pills and have done everything possible to try to avoid that route but it was failing to work. Unfortunately it looks like I have the family curse too...Grandparents, parents and siblings who have all had problems to a certain extent. Though the doc thinks mine is more realted to a Seasonal Affective Disorder because it happens mostly in the winter and every winter I seem to be hit with it worse. All the non- pill routes don't see to work though...frustrating because intellectually I know what's going on (seen it with my family) but am unable to stop it. Finally gave in a said okay I'll try a pill because it's getting ridiculous.
Have you tried a SAD light? A real one, not the $30 ones you get at Walgreens?
I've been on nearly 40 different meds since I was 16 or so. They become like vitamins after a while.
| 680 |
abolitionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:28:23am |
re: #676 abolitionist
Ordinary hydrogen is an exception --stable with a single proton, no neutron.
| 681 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:28:49am |
re: #669 garhighway
The Fukushima plant did have a sea wall, but it was inadequate to protect the backup systems. Going forward, I would expect that backup systems will be fortified to an extent that would protect it not only against a 9 quake, but a tsunami of the heights seen across the Japanese coast. It might involve either elevating the backup systems significantly above the highest tsunami point experienced, or relocating those systems so that they are in less exposed positions.
Or, new nuclear plant designs include self-correcting nuclear reactors that aren't susceptible to the problems we're seeing.
| 682 |
The Yankee Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:28:53am |
re: #676 abolitionist
If it has fewer neutrons than protons, it's going to be very unstable --very short half-life. ALL elements are isotopes. The term refers to variations in the number of neutrons, for any particular number of protons.
I think this is the best answer to my question I knew that the protons determine what element the atom was. Didn't realized thou that basically all real world atoms were Isotope. Always thought there were a few that had an equal number of protons to neutrons.
| 683 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:30:23am |
re: #682 The Yankee
I think this is the best answer to my question I knew that the protons determine what element the atom was. Didn't realized thou that basically all real world atoms were Isotope. Always thought there were a few that had an equal number of protons to neutrons.
The luckier Isotopes get to play in Springfield.
| 684 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:31:14am |
re: #681 lawhawk
The Fukushima plant did have a sea wall, but it was inadequate to protect the backup systems. Going forward, I would expect that backup systems will be fortified to an extent that would protect it not only against a 9 quake, but a tsunami of the heights seen across the Japanese coast. It might involve either elevating the backup systems significantly above the highest tsunami point experienced, or relocating those systems so that they are in less exposed positions.
Or, new nuclear plant designs include self-correcting nuclear reactors that aren't susceptible to the problems we're seeing.
Well before this they didn't think this strong a quake was possible on this faultline. They had already designed for many times stronger than what they thought the worst case scenario could be.
| 685 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:32:29am |
re: #673 Conservative Moonbat
My wife and I found a discarded pill bottle on the street-- the medicine spilled all over the ground. It was a medication used to treat bipolar behavior. I felt so bad for the guy who'd thrown it away.
| 686 |
Simply Sarah Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:32:30am |
re: #682 The Yankee
I think this is the best answer to my question I knew that the protons determine what element the atom was. Didn't realized thou that basically all real world atoms were Isotope. Always thought there were a few that had an equal number of protons to neutrons.
Well, Helium-3 is, in my understanding, pretty stable (Although also extremely rare) despite having 2 protons and 1 neutron.
Many of the lower numbered elements have stable isotopes (And sometimes the most common isotope) with an equal number of protons and neutrons.
| 687 |
The Yankee Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:32:58am |
re: #677 garhighway
Here you go...
[Link: wiki.answers.com...]
This was pretty good response too thanks
As we move up the periodic table and atomic nuclei get larger, the repulsive forces created by all those positively charged protons gets really large. And the nucleus needs increasing binding energy to hold all the protons together. The "extra" or increased binding energy needed to stabilize the nucleus come from neutrons. At the lower end of the periodic table, there is an approximately one-to-one ratio of neutrons to protons. But as we move up the periodic table, the ratio increases gradually as the neutrons begin to outnumber the protons. This explains why as we move up the periodic table, atoms have more neutrons than protons.
| 688 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:33:10am |
re: #684 Conservative Moonbat
Well before this they didn't think this strong a quake was possible on this faultline. They had already designed for many times stronger than what they thought the worst case scenario could be.
Again, the problem with dealing with every conceivable contingency is that sooner or later, the inconceivable happens.
| 689 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:33:37am |
Et tu Jerusalem Post?
I can understand the nasty comments at Haaretz, but now JP has "talkback" comments that compare the Fogel family to the worst nazis and devils, and they "had it coming."
Why, why do I read this shit? I mean, about 2/3s of the comments that I submit to JPost are never approved, and yet this crap gets through? That's fucked up.
| 690 |
Shropshire_Slasher Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:33:59am |
re: #628 Jadespring
After the baby blues my wife started taking Zoloft. Wouldn't recommend. Loss of sex drive, weight gain, and it has really bad with drawl symptoms. I was on terrazadone (spelling) to help me sleep, worked well, except when I stopped taking it, I was hyper for a week.
Good luck with whatever you decide to try.
| 691 |
Interesting Times Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:35:31am |
re: #679 Conservative Moonbat
Have you tried a SAD light? A real one, not the $30 ones you get at Walgreens?
I've been on nearly 40 different meds since I was 16 or so. They become like vitamins after a while.
Are you familiar with these studies?
[Link: www.healthyplace.com...]
[Link: www.psycheducation.org...]
| 692 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:35:50am |
re: #682 The Yankee
Typically, the lighter elements had a roughly 1-1 ratio of protons to neutrons (electrons have a 1-1 ratio with protons regardless of where they are on the periodic table when stable).
Nuclear reactions take advantage of bumping neutrons off those elements that are unstable - releasing significant energy. Uranium is one such element - where the neutrons can bump off enough neighboring neutrons to release energy that can be harnessed safely (at a reactor normally) or explosively - as in an atomic weapon. When those neutrons hit other elements, they can cause still more neutrons to fly off, releasing energy, and causing those elements to break down into radioisotopes of varying types.
Some of those isotopes can be quite hazardous because of the radioactivity associated with them - like cesium and strontium.
| 693 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:36:25am |
re: #690 Shropshire_Slasher
After the baby blues my wife started taking Zoloft. Wouldn't recommend. Loss of sex drive, weight gain, and it has really bad with drawl symptoms. I was on terrazadone (spelling) to help me sleep, worked well, except when I stopped taking it, I was hyper for a week.
Good luck with whatever you decide to try.
I have taken zoloft and it worked for me. I was depressed about being unemployed. When I found a job, voila, I wasn't depressed any more. And yet I have continued taking the zoloft, after my car wreck I was getting panic attacks while driving, and the zoloft has helped with that.
| 694 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:37:16am |
re: #684 Conservative Moonbat
If anything it may force a redesign/reinforcement of nuclear reactors in the US - which may be on known faults as in CA, or those that might be near historic fault areas (such as in New Madrid, Charlston SC, etc.) - and a definitely improvement of backup systems.
| 695 |
abolitionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:37:51am |
re: #686 Simply Sarah
Well, Helium-3 is, in my understanding, pretty stable (Although also extremely rare) despite having 2 protons and 1 neutron.
Many of the lower numbered elements have stable isotopes (And sometimes the most common isotope) with an equal number of protons and neutrons.
Right. Except for the very lightest elements, the number of neutrons is typically equal to or greater than the number of protons, for stable nuclei.
| 696 |
Simply Sarah Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:38:00am |
re: #667 Jadespring
There's nothing wrong with getting some help from a pill if nothing else works. It's a lot better than the alternatives (Assuming, of course, it works correctly). You'll just need to be careful about tracking your moods and any other side-effects it seems to be having, as this stuff tends to really work differently depending on the person. And, as some people have somewhat alluded to, you probably want to avoid any sudden stoppage of one. If you're want to stop, let your doctor know so you can gradually ramp stuff down properly.
| 697 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:39:20am |
re: #688 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Again, the problem with dealing with every conceivable contingency is that sooner or later, the inconceivable happens.
Like being pursued by Wesley.
| 699 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:40:26am |
re: #672 publicityStunted
Sorry to hear that :( I can tell you what has worked for me, so far (knock wood) - a daily regimen of 1000 mg Vitamin D, three salmon oil capsules (can't remember mg total offhand), and 100 mg B-Complex. I also have Zopiclone I take occasionally for insomnia, because I've noticed that lack of sleep really triggers episodes for me.
Perhaps the "sunshine vitamin" might help you with SAD symptoms? Have you tried it?
Yep. I do all of that.
I also make sure I get regular exercise and when it is sunny out to spend time outside.
The same thing has happened the last few winters but every year it starts earlier, is worse and lasts longer.
| 700 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:41:26am |
re: #690 Shropshire_Slasher
After the baby blues my wife started taking Zoloft. Wouldn't recommend. Loss of sex drive, weight gain, and it has really bad with drawl symptoms. I was on terrazadone (spelling) to help me sleep, worked well, except when I stopped taking it, I was hyper for a week.
Good luck with whatever you decide to try.
I gained 100 pounds on one med. Another causes male lactation. Thankfully I didn't get that. You have to judge the side effects relative to the positive effects. If a drug makes you grow a third arm but is the only thing that gives you your humanity back, it can be worth it.
Chemo drugs have some nasty side effects too but you don't hear near as many people bitching about those side effects as you do people complaining about psych med side effects. Most chemo patients just take it in stride as part of what's required to live to see another day. Such is the case with psych meds as well. You've just got to compare the benefits to the side effects.
Compared to a lot of other stuff, SSRIs are some of the mildest medications in the psychophacutical pharmacopia.
| 701 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:42:17am |
re: #685 Obdicut
Thought I was being car jacked the other night. Was an addict looking for his methodone prescription bottle that he had dropped at a park and ride. The cops called me later and told me the situation.
Don't feel bad for calling the cops, the dude was acting really scary, but; feel bad for the dude.
| 702 |
The Yankee Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:42:27am |
re: #684 Conservative Moonbat
Well before this they didn't think this strong a quake was possible on this faultline. They had already designed for many times stronger than what they thought the worst case scenario could be.
I have heard that the problem wasn't the reactor but the tsunami that came after. The reactors are on the beach and everything was going well until the waves came in and flooded the backup generators, that were below sea level. If they left the reactor on they would not of had this cooling problem. Or if the reactors where not next to the ocean or below sea level.
| 703 |
BishopX Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:43:10am |
re: #688 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Again, the problem with dealing with every conceivable contingency is that sooner or later, the inconceivable happens.
This is my main problem with nuclear power. Any discussion of uranium based nuclear power has to include mitigating the effects of by-products on 1,000 year scale. We have about 80 years of good seismic data and maybe 150 of solid weather data (weather as opposed to climate, we have aggregate data going back much further but it isn't useful for predicting storms/floods etc). Now how do you design something to last twenty times as long as your entire scientific record, particularly when you're dealing with semi-random events with long intervals in between? That's what really worries me about nuclear issues, that we cannot comprehend the kind of measures it would take to use this stuff responsably.
| 704 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:43:47am |
re: #691 publicityStunted
Are you familiar with these studies?
[Link: www.healthyplace.com...]
[Link: www.psycheducation.org...]
Yes, I take 6g fish oil a day. I think it helps a little bit. The sleep thing is a little bit impractical, plus I'm not a rapid cycler.
| 705 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:43:50am |
re: #700 Conservative Moonbat
I gained 100 pounds on one med. Another causes male lactation. Thankfully I didn't get that. You have to judge the side effects relative to the positive effects. If a drug makes you grow a third arm but is the only thing that gives you your humanity back, it can be worth it.
Chemo drugs have some nasty side effects too but you don't hear near as many people bitching about those side effects as you do people complaining about psych med side effects. Most chemo patients just take it in stride as part of what's required to live to see another day. Such is the case with psych meds as well. You've just got to compare the benefits to the side effects.
Compared to a lot of other stuff, SSRIs are some of the mildest medications in the psychophacutical pharmacopia.
I've been in situations where a third arm would come in handy. Male lactation, not so much.
| 706 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:44:57am |
re: #705 garhighway
I've been in situations where a third arm would come in handy. Male lactation, not so much.
You never know when you might find an abandoned baby.
| 707 |
The Yankee Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:45:10am |
re: #690 Shropshire_Slasher
After the baby blues my wife started taking Zoloft. Wouldn't recommend. Loss of sex drive, weight gain, and it has really bad with drawl symptoms. I was on terrazadone (spelling) to help me sleep, worked well, except when I stopped taking it, I was hyper for a week.
Good luck with whatever you decide to try.
And not everyone gets the same side affects or them nearly as bad. I took meds for my depression too. Took a long time to find the right one with side affects I could handle.
The more I learn about the brain and hormones the more it amazes me that more people are not crazy.
| 708 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:45:30am |
Ha, Politico's headline:
'She's becoming Al Sharpton, Alaska edition'
Not a good sign for Sister Sarah.
[Link: www.politico.com...]
| 709 |
Velvet Elvis Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:45:38am |
re: #702 The Yankee
I have heard that the problem wasn't the reactor but the tsunami that came after. The reactors are on the beach and everything was going well until the waves came in and flooded the backup generators, that were below sea level. If they left the reactor on they would not of had this cooling problem. Or if the reactors where not next to the ocean or below sea level.
It's kind of a catch-22. THe reactors were deliberately built by the ocean so they could flood them with seawater in as a last ditch cooling mechanism, as they have done with at least one of the reactors now.
| 710 |
Simply Sarah Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:45:57am |
re: #700 Conservative Moonbat
I gained 100 pounds on one med. Another causes male lactation. Thankfully I didn't get that. You have to judge the side effects relative to the positive effects. If a drug makes you grow a third arm but is the only thing that gives you your humanity back, it can be worth it.
Chemo drugs have some nasty side effects too but you don't hear near as many people bitching about those side effects as you do people complaining about psych med side effects. Most chemo patients just take it in stride as part of what's required to live to see another day. Such is the case with psych meds as well. You've just got to compare the benefits to the side effects.
Compared to a lot of other stuff, SSRIs are some of the mildest medications in the psychophacutical pharmacopia.
Exactly. All medications have side effects (And that side effect is, apparently, dry mouth), it's just working out if the benefit gained outweighs the problems that may be caused, which isn't always obvious.
| 711 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:46:02am |
re: #700 Conservative Moonbat
I'm reminded of these lines on the show "Scrubs" (paraphrasing)
Drug Rep: Three possible side effects are explosive diarrhea, pre-mature ejaculation and extreme anxiety.
Dr. Cox: I'm getting two of the three just thinking about it.
| 712 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:46:48am |
re: #705 garhighway
I've been in situations where a third arm would come in handy. Male lactation, not so much.
You could nurse a baby panda.
| 713 |
Obdicut Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:46:55am |
SomethingAwful nails it sometimes:
| 714 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:47:18am |
re: #674 BishopX
I would have a really serious talk with your doc effexor specifically, it can be a really bad match for some people, and getting off it can be a pain in the ass because of the withdrawal symptoms.
I'm in the same boat as you are in terms of the family curse angle, although I think I'm still a ways from medicating. Sucks doesn't it?
Totally sucks. Especially when I finally admitted to myself what was happening I realized that I had been unconsciously taking a bit of pride in the fact that I had avoided it thus far...it was depressing. (I can joke about it at least :) ) I've seen how bad it can get though with other family members, my Dad in particular who was even hospitalized at one point because he lived in denial for a very long time so figure it's best to suck it up and deal with it so things like that won't happen.
| 715 |
Sheila Broflovski Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:48:05am |
re: #705 garhighway
I've been in situations where a third arm would come in handy. Male lactation, not so much.
There is a story in the Talmud, about a man whose wife died, leaving him with a newborn infant. He prayed for the means to nourish it and lo and behold! A miracle happened and he grew breasts so that he could feed the baby.
Some people said, "What a saintly man to have such a miracle performed in his honor!"
Others said, "What a wicked man, that G-d should make him into a freak instead of providing him with a job so that he could afford to hire a wet nurse!"
| 716 |
Kragar Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:48:55am |
I love when a drug introduces a "Non-drowsy" formula and then lists one of the major side effects as drowsiness.
| 717 |
Simply Sarah Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:49:00am |
re: #706 Alouette
You never know when you might find an abandoned baby.
See, lactation doesn't really feel like it would be a huge drawback for me (Outside of maybe making some awkward situations if it triggered easily enough to muss up clothing), but, uh, I realize I'm not quite coming at it from the same angle as a guy generally would...
| 718 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:49:13am |
re: #703 BishopX
I watched a show on Tsunamis on the Science Channel once. Showed where a tsunami went two thousand feet up a mountainside. This was thousands of years ago, but, can you imagine what has happened on Earth over the past 6,000 - 60,000,000,000 years? (covering all of my bases here).
| 719 |
Shropshire_Slasher Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:50:41am |
re: #717 Simply Sarah
Think about how much money you would save on coffee creamer!
//
| 720 |
The Yankee Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:51:29am |
re: #718 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I watched a show on Tsunamis on the Science Channel once. Showed where a tsunami went two thousand feet up a mountainside. This was thousands of years ago, but, can you imagine what has happened on Earth over the past 6,000 - 60,000,000,000 years? (covering all of my bases here).
Tsunamis have also defended the Japanese against a major Chinese naval invasion. And I think either an hurricane or a tsunamis defended the English against the Spanish Navy once as well.
| 721 |
Interesting Times Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:52:13am |
re: #715 Alouette
Others said,
"What a wicked man, that G-d should make him into a freak instead of providing him with a job so that he could afford to hire a wet nurse!"
Didn't realize Rush Limbaugh fans were around back then.
| 722 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:52:55am |
re: #720 The Yankee
And the English must've said, "God loves us."
The Spaniards must've said, "We have angered God."
| 723 |
Jadespring Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:53:07am |
Thanks everyone for the advice. Just hearing about other people's experience helps a lot. Makes me feel better about it what I'm getting into too.
| 724 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:53:25am |
| 725 |
lawhawk Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:54:48am |
re: #718 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Much more recently, Lituya Bay, Alaska witnessed a tsunami/seiches caused a wave that was nearly 2,000 feet tall. It resulted from a landslide caused by a 7+ quake.
| 726 |
The Yankee Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:55:37am |
re: #722 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
And the English must've said, "God loves us."
The Spaniards must've said, "We have angered God."
No but the spanish did fire their weather man.
I believe there is a few baseball teams in Japan with the nickname Tsunamis. I bet good money they are going to change their names.
| 727 |
garhighway Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:56:11am |
| 728 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:56:43am |
Here's the actual "Scrubs" quote.
Julie Keaton: Plomox is the most effective antiarrhythmic drug on the market right now, and it has minimal side effects — only nausea, impotence, and anal leakage.
Dr. Cox: [smiling] I'm gettin' two out of three just from the conversation!
Really liked that show. There were three of four of these gems in every episode.
| 729 |
theheat Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:57:08am |
re: #637 dmon
I hope she finds the younger and hotter poolboy of her dreams.
| 730 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:58:34am |
re: #724 garhighway
Why do you hate Pandas?!?
| 731 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Mar 14, 2011 10:59:53am |
re: #725 lawhawk
That might be the one. My rememberer was broken.
| 732 |
BishopX Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:02:47am |
re: #714 Jadespring
For me, it's my grandfather, who has major bi-polar disorder that probably should have led to hospitalization several times during his life. The scary thing is that I can sort of see how my moods and personality echoes his. I'm just praying that a non-abusive childhood and not serving as an infantryman in Normandy with mitigate the genes.
| 733 |
General Nimrod Bodfish Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:08:35am |
#
1806: The European Commission has asked the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to convene an extraordinary meeting in Vienna next week following the nuclear crisis in Japan, AFP news agency reports.
| 734 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:16:36am |
re: #718 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I watched a show on Tsunamis on the Science Channel once. Showed where a tsunami went two thousand feet up a mountainside. This was thousands of years ago, but, can you imagine what has happened on Earth over the past 6,000 - 60,000,000,000 years? (covering all of my bases here).
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
1,700 ft one in 1958. Pretty much localized to one bay in Alaska, but would you have wanted to be one of the fisherman caught by that one?
| 735 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:27:57am |
re: #315 Lidane
Funny. I thought that deficits didn't matter. That's what the GOP says every time they're in power and are running up huge bills. Why so worried now?
We've been broke a long time. Somehow, it became a crisis recently.
| 736 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:38:17am |
re: #330 Obdicut
I walked near a schul down in Chelsea, by the way, and ran into some very nice Chabad guys standing outside getting ready to study. They were asking passer-bys (who looked Jewish) if they wanted to come study with them; is this kind of (very polite and sweet) proselytizing a Chabad thing, or are these dudes just doing their own deal?
They were very gracious when I said no, and they were fun to talk to. Nice eager young guys, exuberant.
It's a total Chabad thing. Outreach to Jews to bring them to Torah.
| 737 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:46:15am |
re: #373 garhighway
The radio this morning in NYC had a piece about protests regarding a proposed Islamic community center in Brooklyn, led by...? You guessed it: Pam Geller!
So at downtown, it was about its proximity to Ground Zero. But Brooklyn?
[Link: www.wnyc.org...]
Protesting a mosque in Temecula, CA was a big clue that this is not actually about Ground Zero.
| 738 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:49:38am |
re: #388 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Judge: "I see you want to change your name."
Man: "Yes, your honor."
Judge: "What is your name?"
Man: "Henry Buzzardbreath."
Judge: "I can see why. To what do you want it changed?"
Man: "George Buzzardbreath."
"Sir, why do you want the court to grant you a petition of name change?"
"Because I'm a pediatric dentist."
"And?"
"You'd be amazed how hard it is to get a child to open wide for a dentist called Dr. Herter."
(True story.)
| 739 |
abolitionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:52:15am |
re: #733 commadore183
1806: The European Commission has asked the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to convene an extraordinary meeting in Vienna next week following the nuclear crisis in Japan, AFP news agency reports.
Next week?! Sounds like they are might be getting serious about the situation.
/ eleventy
| 740 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:53:17am |
re: #421 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I didn't think Bush was evil, nor do I do I think that Obama is evil.
So, I'm naive. Bush was evil, Obama is pure goodness.
Thanks guys, I think I've got it now.
Did anyone say anything about Obama being good?
//
| 741 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 11:57:23am |
re: #439 McSpiff
re: #434 RogueOne
So Bush had access to the same intelligence as the French and German leaders, yet he was the only one to draw the conclusion that invasion was the correct course. Again, not exactly a sterling endorsement of his leadership ability.
Realistically, if anyone was going to invade, it was going to be us. That's our job. We are the 'tank' of the G8.
| 742 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Mar 14, 2011 12:22:08pm |
re: #527 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My father-in-law (80) volunteers regularly (almost full time) at the local rescue mission/homeless shelter. The "residents" use rags to dry off after they shower.
I had the idea of getting the folks in my church to bring their used bath and kitchen towels in for me to take to the mission. Everybody of means has ten or fifteen bath towels that sit in their closets day after day, not being used because they're frayed, bleach stained, whatever. They're actually in the way. So, I asked them to start bringing them in.
We've donated over 200 towels already and the my FIL says the guys say they've never had it so good.
It doesn't always have to hurt to help someone.
Just wanted to plant that little seed elsewhere.
Nice idea. My mom gives her old towels and linens to the SPCA--they always need towels, for cleanups, dog bedding, and the like.
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