Jim Hoft’s Dishonest Post of the Day: The Tea Party Rapist That Was

Imagine that - a popular right wing blogger who lies outright
Wingnuts • Views: 30,315

DERPJim Hoft, the “GatewayPundit,” has long been known as the Internet’s Dumbest Wingnut. But lately he’s been competing for the title of Internet’s Most Dishonest Wingnut too.

Today the right wing religious fanatic is furiously trying to claim that the former public relations director of the San Diego Tea Party, Michael John Kobulnicky, who was recently arrested for kidnapping and rape, has no connection whatsoever to the Tea Party movement: Breaking: So-Called California Tea Party Spokesman/Rapist IS NOT TEA PARTY Member or Spokesman | the Gateway Pundit.

Hoft includes this image to make sure his readers get the point:

BIG UPDATE—–

The So Cal Tax Revolt Coalition released this statement, via Lipstick Underground. Kobulnicky is not a member, spokesman or volunteer with the group. The whole story was made up by the media.

But you see, Kobulnicky never claimed to be a member of that group, and nobody in the media (or anyone else) ever made this claim either.

Michael Kobulnicky’s website, however, makes it pretty clear that he was the leader of a Tea Party group in San Diego:

Currently the Co-Organizer and Public Relations Representative for the San Diego Tea Party with over 1,200 members!

And at the website of the National Council of Americans, Inc., we discover that Kobulnicky was also deeply involved with many other Tea Party organizations, not just in San Diego, but on the national level:

Michael J. Kobulnicky, MBA

November 9, 2010 Speech 6PM Tri-City Tea Party Group

November 18, 2010 Speech 12PM CSU San Marcos College Republicans

December 2, 2010 Radio Interview 12PM US Tea Party Show Live usteapartyradio.com 

December 6, 2010 Radio Interview 9:00PM The Rick Amato Show Live at: KCBQ 1170AM Radio !!!

December 7, 2010 Speech 12 PM Chula Vista/Bonita Republican Women Federated Group (See pictures)

December 9, 2010 Speech 7PM Orange County Oath Keepers of OC

January 17, 2011 Speech 11:30AM The Military Order of World Wars (MOWW-San Diego Chapter) at the Seven Seas Lodge (See pictures)

January 26, 2011 Speech 12 PM Del Mar Seacoast Republican Women Federated Group (See pictures)

January 28, 2011 Speech 12PM 405/605 Tea Party Patriots hosting multi-Tea Party Summit with 10 groups. First meeting. (See pictures)

February 9, 2011 Speech 7PM Poway: Liberty Tree Tea Party (See pictures)

February 20, 2011 Speech 5:30PM Tea Party US at Doubletree Golf Resort in Rancho Penasquitos

February 25-27, 2011 Tea Party Patriots Policy Summit at the Phoenix Convention Center. Mr. Kobulnicky will be meeting with the top leaders in the National Tea Party and networking with up to 5,000 top members! He and others will take part in policy briefings and discussions that will help write a new chapter in American history as Tea Party Patriots become as effective at shaping public policy as it was shaping the last election. The American Policy Summit will bring together leading experts, scholars and political heavyweights for a series of exciting presentations and discussions that focus on our core values and the Five Pathways to Liberty: education, legislation, judicial, culture and elections.

Does this mean that the Tea Party is promoting a “culture of rape?” No — no more than the Occupy Wall Street movement does.

But it’s important to note that Jim Hoft is simply lying about Kobulnicky’s connections to the Tea Party, in a pitifully lame attempt to divert attention back to his constant outrageous smearing of the Occupy movement.

A more accurate image for Hoft’s dishonest post might be:

Related

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203 comments

1 HappyWarrior  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:31:44am

I’m shocked, shocked I tell you that Jim Hoft would claim a rape represented OWS and then would try to dismiss the Tea Party creds of a Tea Party member who was a rapist. Honestly, a rapist’s a rapist. I am not high on either movement but neither movement is pro rape.

2 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:31:53am

I read something about him resigning due to ‘personal problems’ from his stuff at Tea Party things, so he may have been cracking up for awhile.

3 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:32:30am

Right-wing violence = disturbed loner outsider
OWS/Islamist violence = part and parcel of the movement/religion

4 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:33:05am
February 25-27, 2011 Tea Party Patriots Policy Summit at the Phoenix Convention Center. Mr. Kobulnicky will be meeting with the top leaders in the National Tea Party and networking with up to 5,000 top members! He and others will take part in policy briefings and discussions that will help write a new chapter in American history as Tea Party Patriots become as effective at shaping public policy as it was shaping the last election. The American Policy Summit will bring together leading experts, scholars and political heavyweights for a series of exciting presentations and discussions that focus on our core values and the Five Pathways to Liberty: education, legislation, judicial, culture and elections.
[Link: www.ncoam.org…]
5 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:33:05am

Any crime committed within a mile of an OWS event is by default an OWS crime.

Kilgore will back me up on this.

He can’t be a Tea Bagger, because even though there is copious evidence showing his affiliation with the Tea Party, No True Tea Bagger, etc, etc.

6 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:33:38am

What is The National Council of Americans All About?
Why Every American Should Care
By Michael J. Kobulnicky, MBA
President/CEO, National Council of Americans
[Link: www.ceai.org…]

7 Targetpractice  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:35:12am

re: #5 Kragar

Any crime committed within a mile of an OWS event is by default an OWS crime.

Kilgore will back me up on this.

He can’t be a Tea Bagger, because even though there is copious evidence showing his affiliation with the Tea Party, No True Tea Bagger, etc, etc.

No no, you’ve got it wrong. When it happens within five miles of an OWS camp, then OWS is responsible.

When it involves the Tea Party, then we’re just paying attention to it because we’re a bunch of partisan hacks. Or something like that.

//

8 euphgeek  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:35:28am

Hey Tea Party! Behave yourselves! Stop raping people!
//

9 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:36:36am

re: #8 euphgeek

Hey Tea Party! Behave yourselves! Stop raping people!
//

10 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:37:03am

I like Hoft’s helpful caption, in case his readers can’t get the gist of his post by reading all the words.

11 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:38:00am
12 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:38:09am

re: #5 Kragar

Any crime committed within a mile of an OWS event is by default an OWS crime.

Kilgore will back me up on this.

He can’t be a Tea Bagger, because even though there is copious evidence showing his affiliation with the Tea Party, No True Tea Bagger, etc, etc.

Security and sanitation problems in the occupy camps was a serious issue and it was a bad idea for the occupiers to ignore that. It was bad for the movement and bad for their fellow protesters. Of course Hoft’s defense is stupid but that’s what partisans do. Always find an excuse to split hairs to defend the indefensible.

13 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:39:18am

re: #3 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Right-wing violence = disturbed loner outsider
OWS/Islamist violence = part and parcel of the movement/religion

More than likely Mr. Kobulnicky’s crime was caused by personal stress.

//

14 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:39:50am

This invocation of the MBF is disingenuous. Everybody knows the OWS was rapey and stabby, both.

15 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:40:17am

re: #13 Gus

More than likely Mr. Kobulnicky’s crime was caused by personal stress.

//

Mr. Kobulnicky was an instrument of God’s will.
/

16 aagcobb  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:42:12am

re: #15 Kragar

Mr. Kobulnicky was an instrument of God’s will.
/

We can only hope he proved to be the instrument of God’s desire to give this woman a baby./

17 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:42:27am

re: #14 A Little Bit Shady

This invocation of the MBF is disingenuous. Everybody knows the OWS was rapey and stabby, both.

In addition it is rabid and strappy

18 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:43:21am

re: #3 Ministry of Fairness and Balance

Right-wing violence = disturbed loner outsider
OWS/Islamist violence = part and parcel of the movement/religion

That’s a double edged sword that cuts both ways. It’s the sad truth.

19 ReamWorks SKG  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:44:19am

Ok! Maybe the Tea Party rapes, just like OWS. But has the Tea Party stabbed anyone?

20 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:44:30am

re: #18 Killgore Trout

That’s a double edged sword that cuts both ways. It’s the sad truth.

Imagine all of the Taliban and Al Qaeda suffering from PTSD and not receiving treatment. Who knows what this leads them to do.

21 Batman  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:44:39am

Michael Kobulnicky was clearly a liberal plant.

22 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:45:38am

re: #16 aagcobb

We can only hope he proved to be the instrument of God’s desire to give this woman a baby./

And that anyone who sympathizes with the woman doesn’t have any evil intentions of stifling his free speech by calling attention to what he did and said.

///

23 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:46:05am

re: #10 jaunte

I like Hoft’s helpful caption, in case his readers can’t get the gist of his post by reading all the words.

I had to add that to my post, along with my own version.

24 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:46:18am

re: #19 ReamWorks, SKG (fka Reuven)

Ok! Maybe the Tea Party rapes, just like OWS. But has the Tea Party stabbed anyone?

You owe me royalties for the use of that idea.

25 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:46:20am

re: #19 ReamWorks, SKG (fka Reuven)

Ok! Maybe the Tea Party rapes, just like OWS. But has the Tea Party stabbed anyone?

HELL NO!

Why do you think they bring guns to their rallies?

26 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:46:55am

re: #25 Kragar

HELL NO!

Why do you think they bring guns to their rallies?

Does this count?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

:P

27 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:49:49am

re: #26 Gus

Does this count?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

:P

He didn’t stab anyone!

28 Kronocide  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:50:35am

re: #19 ReamWorks

Ok! Maybe the Tea Party rapes, just like OWS. But has the Tea Party stabbed anyone?

Pretty rare. TP events were one day only, no camping, lots of older folks caravaning or bussed in.
OWS was camping events in high density/charged situations, and anybody else in proximity could mix in.

But the reality is that the TP events raped common sense and stabbed you with idiotic ideology.

29 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:51:11am

re: #27 Kragar

He didn’t stab anyone!

Does stabbing in the dark count?

//

30 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:53:43am

re: #29 Gus

Does stabbing in the dark count?

//

Were they wild?

31 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:53:52am

Atlanta Tea Party Patriots joins labor groups, enviros to oppose protest legislation

One of the state’s most organized and vocal tea party groups has joined labor unions, eco-advocates, and civil rights activists to oppose legislation sponsored by state Sen. Don Balfour, R-Snellville, that would place new restrictions on acts of civil disobedience and change how labor unions organize members. Writes the Dacula-based Atlanta Tea Party Patriots in an email to members:

The bill at face value, apprears to be geared toward labor unions, but the devil is in the details… it clearly adds a “person or organization”, which could include not only big labor, but also Tea Party activists, those protesting outside abortion clinics, or many other scenarios. Please see below…

32 Big Steve  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 11:57:19am

I had not heard that Mr Kobulnicky had been convicted of anything.

33 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:00:03pm

re: #32 Big Steve

I had not heard that Mr Kobulnicky had been convicted of anything.

Neither are most of the population at GITMO!

//Jumps into foxhole.

34 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:03:06pm

re: #33 Gus

Neither are most of the population at GITMO!

//Jumps into foxhole.

Drone strike!

35 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:03:39pm

“. . He dragged her out of the car and sexually assaulted her pretty brutally,” San Diego Police Lt. Andra Brown told ECM news partner 10 News in late February, shortly after the February 25 assault occurred . .

Should we trust the police?

36 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:04:35pm

re: #35 jaunte

“. . He dragged her out of the car and sexually assaulted her pretty brutally,” San Diego Police Lt. Andra Brown told ECM news partner 10 News in late February, shortly after the February 25 assault occurred . .

Should we trust the police?

Luckily the suspect wasn’t walking around with a bag of Skittles and a can of soda pop.

37 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:04:53pm

re: #35 jaunte

“. . He dragged her out of the car and sexually assaulted her pretty brutally,” San Diego Police Lt. Andra Brown told ECM news partner 10 News in late February, shortly after the February 25 assault occurred . .

Should we trust the police?

Obviously the police should have gone in with 9mm and shotguns…

38 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:05:09pm

re: #32 Big Steve

I had not heard that Mr Kobulnicky had been convicted of anything.

Says ‘arrested for kidnapping and rape’ above, had you heard that?

39 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:05:35pm

re: #36 Gus

Luckily the suspect wasn’t walking around with a bag of Skittles and a can of soda pop.

I did read a bit about that story this weekend. It might not by what it appears to be.

40 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:05:58pm

re: #39 Killgore Trout

I did read a bit about that story this weekend. It might not by what it appears to be.

Heh.

41 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:06:40pm

Dana Loesch, making stuff up again:

“Some progressive talking heads seem gleeful at the misery of Kobulnicky’s alleged victim.”
[Link: danabusted.blogspot.com…]

42 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:10:03pm

re: #40 Gus

Trayvon Martin 911 tapes: Who screamed for help before shot rang out?

Police and the parents of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager shot by a neighborhood watch captain, differ in their interpretation of 911 tapes, specifically about who was yelling for help.

43 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:11:27pm

re: #41 jaunte

Dana Loesch, making stuff up again:

Says the women who gleefully endorsed pissing on corpses.

44 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:12:34pm

re: #42 Killgore Trout

Trayvon Martin 911 tapes: Who screamed for help before shot rang out?

Who’s dead? Who went up to Trayvon after he was specifically told by the police to stay in the vehicle? Who more than likely precipitated the confrontation? Who has a record for assaulting a police officer?

45 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:13:49pm

re: #35 jaunte

“. . He dragged her out of the car and sexually assaulted her pretty brutally,” San Diego Police Lt. Andra Brown told ECM news partner 10 News in late February, shortly after the February 25 assault occurred . .

Should we trust the police?

They wouldn’t have arrested him if he wasn’t guilty.
///

46 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:15:02pm

re: #41 jaunte

Dana Loesch, making stuff up again:

I’d tell her to stop being stupid, but …

47 Skeetghazi  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:15:24pm

Omg

48 allegro  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:16:01pm

re: #44 Gus

Who’s dead? Who went up to Trayvon after he was specifically told by the police to stay in the vehicle? Who more than likely precipitated the confrontation? Who has a record for assaulting a police officer?

Also, who went out armed in his car trolling for a “suspect”?

49 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:16:53pm

re: #44 Gus

When people go vigilante, people get hurt and killed. Sometimes it’s a criminal— doesn’t make it right.

50 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:17:26pm

re: #48 allegro

Also, who went out armed in his car trolling for a “suspect”?

Seriously. I wasn’t aware that I can drive around at night and walk up to people looking like a civilian and waving a gun around demanding to know what they were doing. Then after I start a fight I can shoot them in the head and go home to my cat.

51 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:18:56pm

re: #48 allegro

Also, who went out armed in his car trolling for a “suspect”?

Who, who wrote the book of love?

52 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:19:20pm

re: #49 Obdicut

When people go vigilante, people get hurt and killed. Sometimes it’s a criminal— doesn’t make it right.

In this case a black teenager with a clean record. IOW, “white south” doesn’t care.

53 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:21:11pm

re: #51 A Little Bit Shady

Who, who wrote the book of love?

Pompadous

54 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:21:37pm

re: #50 Gus

Seriously. I wasn’t aware that I can drive around at night and walk up to people looking like a civilian and waving a gun around demanding to know what they were doing. Then after I start a fight I can shoot them in the head and go home to my cat.

Not only that, but Zimmerman apparently had a history of calling 911 claiming suspicious activity in the area or whatever.

He needs to be in jail for murder, full stop.

55 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:23:45pm

re: #54 Lidane

He needs to be in jail for murder, full stop.

He needs and deserves a proper investigation and a fair trial first.

56 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:25:03pm

re: #54 Lidane

Not only that, but Zimmerman apparently had a history of calling 911 claiming suspicious activity in the area or whatever.

He needs to be in jail for murder, full stop.

Imagine if the cops pulled up to the scene and the roles were reversed with Trayvon holding the gun? Ha. We know the answer to that. Heck, look at what the cops did to Sgt. Manuel Loggins Jr. in San Diego.

57 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:25:21pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

He needs and deserves a proper investigation and a fair trial first.

Really?

58 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:25:46pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

He needs and deserves a proper investigation and a fair trial first.

People suspected of murder are often held in jail during the investigation. Or granted bail if a judge allows.

59 allegro  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:26:28pm

re: #54 Lidane

Not only that, but Zimmerman apparently had a history of calling 911 claiming suspicious activity in the area or whatever.

He needs to be in jail for murder, full stop.

I find it rather hard to buy a self defense argument with the facts that we have. Even if the kid punched him, he was the one who was being stopped and hassled, perhaps accused of wrong-doing by some dude who was not a police officer. It’s likely that he felt reasonably threatened under the circumstances. The police/DA blowing it off as self defense seems really wrong. I thought I read in another article that it was the kid who called 911. Is that correct?

60 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:27:53pm

Outrageous Outrage!

New George Washington dollar coin missing “In God We Trust”
There were dire warnings:

It had better be somewhere on the coin.
Sooner or later, something will be the “last straw” and this country will revolt.

A dwindling number of freepers still trust their lying eyes over an internet post, though, and the revolt had hardly begun before they directed the poster to this article: “In God We Trust” IS on the new dollar coin..

The motto is stamped on the side of the coin, where anyone can see it.

This revelation did not entirely mollify the outrage, however:

Since when, in this country, did Faith become a “side” issue?

61 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:28:10pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

People suspected of murder are often held in jail during the investigation. Or granted bail if a judge allows.

Often but not always. If the police don’t have legal grounds to bring charges the arrest needs to wait until they do. I don’t think they’ve closed the case yet.

62 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:28:45pm

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

63 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:28:52pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Often but not always. If the police don’t have legal grounds to bring charges the arrest needs to wait until they do. I don’t think they’ve closed the case yet.

The cops have shown little interest in investigating this case.

64 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:29:18pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

He needs and deserves a proper investigation and a fair trial first.

Well, yes, this being America, with that pesky constitution and all.

65 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:30:23pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

I’m not seeing it.

66 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:30:28pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

Maybe a Lizard Deflector was installed?
/

67 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:30:31pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

It went straight to her site.

68 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:31:04pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

No re-directs on my end.

69 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:31:05pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

And Trayvon Martin should still be alive instead of gunned down by a racist maniac looking for a suspect to shoot.

Arrest Zimmerman for murder and hold him while the investigation is ongoing. He’s clearly dangerous.

70 makeitstop  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:31:44pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

Nope, got her site. Time for a shower.

71 Kronocide  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:31:45pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

I got to her site no prob.

72 Interesting Times  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:31:58pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

I got her page, 1st entry plugging her latest appearance on Fox and Friends (as if one needed more reasons to have no respect whatsoever for that show).

Didn’t bother waiting for her entire site to load, however (in case the redirects you’re seeing only happen after it does)

73 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:32:09pm

They still have Geller on Fox News? lol What a joke. What a piece of shit “news” organization they are.

74 erik_t  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:32:10pm

re: #60 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

Outrageous Outrage!

New George Washington dollar coin missing “In God We Trust”

Totally cool to start stupid wars, deny rights to large swaths of the population, stick probes in a woman’s ‘V’, or lock up quasi-POWs until the heat death of the universe, but BY GOD THAT COIN HAD BETTER HAVE A CERTAIN SEVERAL WORDS THAT WE USED TO FIGHT COMMUNISTS IN THE 1950s. AND EVEN IF IT DOES HAVE THEM, RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.

75 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:32:12pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

Not only am I seeing no redirect, I am seeing a dude in bad need of some shampoo wielding an ax.

A redirect would be nice.

76 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:32:37pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

Sadly, no, it goes to her site, although it’s still, you know, loading….

77 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:35:22pm

re: #76 wrenchwench

Sadly, no, it goes to her site, although it’s still, you know, loading…

…still loading….

78 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:35:29pm

Santorum’s Warning: Breaking Christian ‘Moral Bounds’ Will Lead To ‘A Very Dangerous Place’

SANTORUM: If everybody goes out and says, ‘I’ll do whatever I want, I’ll be my own government. I’ll love my life under my rules.’ Go out and leave here and drive down the left side of the highway and see how well that works out. You can’t live according to your own rules. We have to live to rules that are good and descent and moral and fair that allow us all to pursue our dreams. And when people break those moral bounds and society becomes a very dangerous place and government gets bigger, we have to hire more people in uniforms here in this country and we are less free.

Yes, we all have to have the freedom to live our dreams, as long as Rick Santorum approves of them.

79 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:35:40pm

Hmm, now it’s not redirecting. I think she’s ineptly trying to make some change to her site, probably some Javascript that she doesn’t know how to install.

81 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:36:21pm

re: #79 Charles Johnson

Hmm, now it’s not redirecting. I think she’s ineptly trying to make some change to her site, probably some Javascript that she doesn’t know how to install.

Re-direct like Indymedia used to do?

82 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:36:40pm

re: #78 Kragar

Santorum’s Warning: Breaking Christian ‘Moral Bounds’ Will Lead To ‘A Very Dangerous Place’

Yes, we all have to have the freedom to live our dreams, as long as Rick Santorum approves of them.

Torquemada in a sweater vest. Simple as that.

83 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:38:33pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

How are you trying to get to the site? I’ve been having getting weird redirects to every sight I try to get through using a google search recently…

84 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:38:38pm

re: #78 Kragar

Go out and leave here and drive down the left side of the highway and see how well that works out.

I knew it! The British are heretics!

85 Kragar  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:38:54pm
86 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:39:18pm

re: #84 jaunte

I knew it! The British are heretics!

Ok, let me hop in my tank.

87 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:39:27pm

re: #80 Lidane

Parents of Trayvon Martin are calling on FBI to get involved with shooting investigation

Sanford police Sgt. David Morgenstern said the department stands by its investigation but welcomes help from any outside agency. FBI agent David Couvertier said the agency has been in contact with Sanford police and is monitoring the case. U.S. Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla. and Sanford Mayor Jeff Triplett said Friday they supported federal involvement.

“We want the oversight,” Triplett said. “We want the review of it.”

Good, it looks like the system is working.

88 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:42:19pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

He needs and deserves a proper investigation and a fair trial first.

So all the other murder suspects in the USA should be released until their trial (no refusal of bond).

89 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:43:11pm

And sorry no. If someone punches me in the face during a confrontation I have no right to kill that person. It would have to be one pretty rough fight before that’s justified — if even then. This kind of thing wasn’t even allowed in the proverbial “Wild West”. You don’t shoot an unarmed man and if you did you faced the gallows.

Cowboy Codes of the West: 6. Never shoot an unarmed man.

90 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:44:09pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

People suspected of murder are often held in jail during the investigation. Or granted bail if a judge allows.

Replied to the original comment before I got to this one, but YEAH.

91 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:44:19pm

re: #89 Gus

What happened during the fight is just the second part. Disobeying the instruction to not get involved in the first place is the root of the stupidity.

92 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:44:31pm

re: #85 Kragar

Yeah, that about sums it up. I used to love The History Channel when they, you know, showed historical programs.

93 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:44:59pm

re: #92 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Yeah, that about sums it up. I used to love The History Channel when they, you know, showed historical programs.

Ancient astronauts!

94 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:45:20pm

re: #91 Obdicut

What happened during the fight is just the second part. Disobeying the instruction to not get involved in the first place is the root of the stupidity.

Yes. I’d go even further back and ask “what the hell was this nut doing with a concealed weapons permit in the first place?”

95 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:46:11pm

re: #90 RayFerd

Replied to the original comment before I got to this one, but YEAH.

Of course, they can’t put him in jail until they arrest him, which is the point here, I think. Should he be arrested before the investigation is complete? If not, why not? Is there zero chance of him running away? He’s obviously the only suspect.

96 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:46:33pm

re: #93 Varek Raith

the ancient Aliens show actually works as a series if you look at it in historical “what if” terms. Only in America with Larry the cable Guy on the other hand…

97 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:46:36pm

re: #83 jamesfirecat

How are you trying to get to the site? I’ve been having getting weird redirects to every sight I try to get through using a google search recently…

You should do a virus check — that sounds like your computer may have gotten infected.

98 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:47:05pm

Still loading.

I’m closing it now…

99 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:47:11pm

re: #94 Gus

Yes. I’d go even further back and ask “what the hell was this nut doing with a concealed weapons permit in the first place?”

This means two things to me: A) Mr. Zimmerman should face criminal charges and murder in the 2nd degree and B) civil penalties should be levied against the authoring agency that granted a gun permit to Mr. Zimmerman which can be the state of Florida and/or the city of Sanford.

100 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:47:49pm

re: #92 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Yeah, that about sums it up. I used to love The History Channel when they, you know, showed historical programs.

Watching MASH on the History Channel right now.

101 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:48:03pm

re: #98 wrenchwench

Still loading.

I’m closing it now…

Geller puts 100 pages worth of material on one page. Give or take a few pages.

102 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:48:04pm

re: #94 Gus

Florida actually has a loophole for that:

Adjudicated Incapacitated Or Committed To A Mental Institution
If you have been adjudicated incapacitated under Section 744.331, Florida Statutes, or similar laws of any other state; committed to a mental institution under Chapter 394, Florida Statutes, or similar laws of any other state; or adjudicated mentally defective in any court, you are not eligible for licensure unless you have received federal relief from disabilities.
[Link: licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us…]

103 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:48:28pm

re: #102 jaunte

Florida actually has a loophole for that:

Figures. Welcome to Murica.

104 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:48:47pm

re: #102 jaunte

Florida actually has a loophole for that:

Facepalm.

105 jamesfirecat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:49:08pm

re: #97 Charles Johnson

You should do a virus check — that sounds like your computer may have gotten infected.

Yeah I know it’s something I’m going to do soon just wanted to make sure you weren’t having the same problem.

106 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:51:39pm

re: #99 Gus

This means two things to me: A) Mr. Zimmerman should face criminal charges and murder in the 2nd degree and B) civil penalties should be levied against the authoring agency that granted a gun permit to Mr. Zimmerman which can be the state of Florida and/or the city of Sanford.

I’m amazed that someone who assaulted a police officer was allowed to buy a gun legally. Talk about a red flag.

107 erik_t  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:51:51pm

re: #102 jaunte

Florida actually has a loophole for that:

Of course, no such luck if all you want to do is vote.

In order to register to vote in Florida, you must:

Not now be adjudicated mentally incapacitated with respect to voting in Florida or any other state without having the right to vote restored;

Floriderp.

108 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:52:03pm

re: #95 wrenchwench

Of course, they can’t put him in jail until they arrest him, which is the point here, I think. Should he be arrested before the investigation is complete? If not, why not? Is there zero chance of him running away? He’s obviously the only suspect.

It seems he’s cooperating with the investigation and the initial results didn’t find cause to to have him charged. The local authorities are cooperating with federal authorities and the investigation is going to be reviewed. This system appears to be working.

109 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:52:56pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

It seems he’s cooperating with the investigation and the initial results didn’t find cause to to have him charged. The local authorities are cooperating with federal authorities and the investigation is going to be reviewed. This system appears to be working.

Not if you’re that kids parents.

110 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:53:31pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

It seems he’s cooperating with the investigation and the initial results didn’t find cause to to have him charged. The local authorities are cooperating with federal authorities and the investigation is going to be reviewed. This system appears to be working.

It’s working in one of the two or more ways that it usually works. I think if the races were reversed, it would be working in the other of the two or more ways that it usually works.

111 erik_t  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:53:51pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

It seems he’s cooperating with the investigation and the initial results didn’t find cause to to have him charged. The local authorities are cooperating with federal authorities and the investigation is going to be reviewed. This system appears to be working.

The system isn’t/shouldn’t be evaluated as a binary failure/success. When failures occur at lower levels, higher levels must work to mitigate or solve the problem. The fact that the higher levels are functioning properly in this case does not mean we should sing and dance and clap our hands and throw a party. Somebody is still dead, and they shouldn’t be. That’s a shitty definition of complete success.

112 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:54:39pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

It seems he’s cooperating with the investigation and the initial results didn’t find cause to to have him charged. The local authorities are cooperating with federal authorities and the investigation is going to be reviewed. This system appears to be working.

The system is barely working. And if it appears to be moving somewhere it’s only because there’s been a strong public outcry both on the internet, the news, and on the streets. If there were no public outcry and every stayed home or didn’t say a word then nothing would even be done about this gross injustice. It’s moving and may move because people are active. It still remains to be seen.

113 BongCrodny  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:55:07pm

re: #100 A Little Bit Shady

Watching MASH on the History Channel right now.

The Korean War lasted eleven years. Not many people know that, but I do.

114 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:56:09pm

re: #113 BongCrodny

The Korean War lasted eleven years. Not many people know that, but I do.

Is it actually over, or just in a cease-fire?

115 allegro  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:56:11pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

It seems he’s cooperating with the investigation and the initial results didn’t find cause to to have him charged. The local authorities are cooperating with federal authorities and the investigation is going to be reviewed. This system appears to be working.

If by “working” you mean that considerable public outcry and attention from national media have MAYBE resulted in keeping the case open for reconsideration from a local police department that initially simply called it self defense and walked away.

116 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:56:22pm

Poll: More Americans now back domestic drilling

Struggling with rising prices at the pump, Americans are voicing a greater willingness to develop domestic fossil fuels than they did just a year ago, according to a new poll.

Support for offshore oil drilling has bounced back to levels seen before the 2010 Gulf of Mexico oil spill, according to the new survey by the Pew Research Center for People & the Press. Almost two-thirds (65%) back the expansion of offshore drilling, compared with 57% a year ago and 44% in June 2010, during the gulf spill.

Conducted from March 7 to March 11, the survey interviewed 1,503 adults who were just about evenly split among Republicans, Democrats and Independents…

Derp.

117 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:56:47pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

He needs and deserves a proper investigation and a fair trial first.

He’s entitled to that but deserves exactly the same consideration he gave the kid he shot.

118 celticdragon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:56:50pm

re: #113 BongCrodny

The Korean War lasted eleven years. Not many people know that, but I do.

I was beginning to wonder if they were going to have to substitute in Huey medivac choppers and move the unit to Da Nang by the end of the tenth season…

119 engineer cat  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:57:05pm

re: #60 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator

Outrageous Outrage!

New George Washington dollar coin missing “In God We Trust”
There were dire warnings:

A dwindling number of freepers still trust their lying eyes over an internet post, though, and the revolt had hardly begun before they directed the poster to this article: “In God We Trust” IS on the new dollar coin..

The motto is stamped on the side of the coin, where anyone can see it.

This revelation did not entirely mollify the outrage, however:

New George Washington Dollar Coin Rather Ugly

120 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:57:41pm

re: #110 wrenchwench

It’s working in one of the two or more ways that it usually works. I think if the races were reversed, it would be working in the other of the two or more ways that it usually works.

Zimmerman is Hispanic so I’m not so sure white privilege is involved.

121 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:58:01pm

re: #110 wrenchwench

It’s working in one of the two or more ways that it usually works. I think if the races were reversed, it would be working in the other of the two or more ways that it usually works.

Race? This has nothing to do with race! We live in a color blind society!

//

122 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:58:21pm

re: #117 leftynyc

He’s entitled to that but deserves exactly the same consideration he gave the kid he shot.

Well that would be none. He charges that kid guilty the moment he laid eyes on him.

123 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:58:33pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Zimmerman is Hispanic so I’m not so sure white privilege is involved.

And the opposite here is?

…I’ll wait for the answer.

124 jaunte  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:58:41pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

In Florida, ‘hispanic’ is not usually the same as ‘non-white.’

125 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:58:51pm

re: #123 Gus

And the opposite here is?

…I’ll wait for the answer.

I’ll help…

The victim is?

126 celticdragon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:58:56pm

re: #116 Gus

Poll: More Americans now back domestic drilling

Derp.

Because we all love it when our tap water catches on fire and our kids get rare cancerous lesions after swimming in the pool.
//

If you haven’t seen it yet, watch the documentary Gasland.

127 BongCrodny  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:58:59pm

re: #114 A Little Bit Shady

Is it actually over, or just in a cease-fire?

It’s over. It ended in 1983.

128 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:59:35pm

re: #116 Gus

Poll: More Americans now back domestic drilling

Derp.

Both fuel prices and oil prices are determined by the market which is affected by global conditions. No amount of drilling in the US will affect global markets more than a tiny amount.

129 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 12:59:48pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Zimmerman is Hispanic so I’m not so sure white privilege is involved.

As I keep telling people, “Hispanics can be of any race”.

As my Hispanic former employee said, referring to the Hispanic cops around here, “I wear a cowboy hat when I’m driving so they’ll think I’m white”.

130 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:00:15pm

re: #115 allegro

If by “working” you mean that considerable public outcry and attention from national media have MAYBE resulted in keeping the case open for reconsideration from a local police department that initially simply called it self defense and walked away.

Yes. It seems the press, the police and politicians are all doing the right thing so far. Even dopey Al Sharpton is showing up to free publicity. Everybody doing what they’re supposed to do so far.

131 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:01:08pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Zimmerman is Hispanic so I’m not so sure white privilege is involved.

It’s because the victim is black. And when the people are looking at the paper work before seeing the shooter they’re reading his name, George Zimmerman. Does that SOUND Spanish to you?

132 celticdragon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:01:34pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Zimmerman is Hispanic so I’m not so sure white privilege is involved.

Keep in mind you are dealing with law enforcement in the state where this atrocity happened…

133 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:02:04pm

re: #131 Gus

It’s because the victim is black. And when the people are looking at the paper work before seeing the shooter they’re reading his name, George Zimmerman. Does that SOUND Spanish to you?

Maybe he changed it from Jorge Zimmermano.

134 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:02:50pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

It seems he’s cooperating with the investigation and the initial results didn’t find cause to to have him charged. The local authorities are cooperating with federal authorities and the investigation is going to be reviewed. This system appears to be working.

Yeah, for somebody.

135 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:03:13pm

re: #117 leftynyc

He’s entitled to that but deserves exactly the same consideration he gave the kid he shot.

Lovely. Good luck with that.

136 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:04:07pm

re: #132 celticdragon

Keep in mind you are dealing with law enforcement in the state where this atrocity happened…

I know there’s a lot of history but we’re still a nation of laws. Let the system do its thing.

137 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:05:19pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

I know there’s a lot of history but we’re still a nation of laws. Let the system do its thing.

Right. Didn’t Martin Luther King say that?

//

138 allegro  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:05:34pm

re: #130 Killgore Trout

Yes. It seems the press, the police and politicians are all doing the right thing so far. Even dopey Al Sharpton is showing up to free publicity. Everybody doing what they’re supposed to do so far.

Well, aren’t we just adorably clever finding a way to turn a tragic event of a young man’s unnecessary and apparently unjustified death into a “lefties just looking for attention” troll. Because nobody really cares about the tragedy, it’s all for show.

//

139 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:06:13pm

re: #117 leftynyc

He’s entitled to that but deserves exactly the same consideration he gave the kid he shot.

Exactly.

140 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:06:34pm

re: #124 jaunte

In Florida, ‘hispanic’ is not usually the same as ‘non-white.’

How many frikkin’ races are there?

141 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:08:23pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

Lovely. Good luck with that.

I show murderers no mercy other than not allowing the state to kill them in revenge. This bigot was looking for trouble and he found it. Fuck him.

142 celticdragon  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:08:36pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

I know there’s a lot of history but we’re still a nation of laws. Let the system do its thing.

The system did its thing to Brendan Butler, which included a savage beating from a police officer and having a gun held to his head until he “confessed”.

The officers still work for the police dept in Jacksonvill btw, since the Grand Jury decided they didn’t have enough to indict on (the pictures of bruises on Brendans face and body taken when he was processed into the juvenile facility just aren’t enough, it seems.)

The system is a joke and it is blatantly racist.

143 erik_t  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:08:51pm

re: #140 A Little Bit Shady

How many frikkin’ races are there?

One, in my dreams.

144 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:08:56pm

re: #117 leftynyc

He’s entitled to that but deserves exactly the same consideration he gave the kid he shot.

No, that’s calling for his execution without trial. That’s dumb.

145 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:09:11pm

re: #138 allegro

Well, aren’t we just adorably clever finding a way to turn a tragic event of a young man’s unnecessary and apparently unjustified death into a “lefties just looking for attention” troll. Because nobody really cares about the tragedy, it’s all for show.

//

I see a few people here that seem to be advocating that Zimmerman be shot without a fair trial. Call be a right wing radical wingnut but I don’t think that’s fair.

146 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:09:19pm

re: #139 Lidane

Exactly.

You really want him just shot?

147 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:10:11pm

re: #144 Obdicut

No, that’s calling for his execution without trial. That’s dumb.

Hooray!. It’s been a while since we’ve agreed on anything.

148 erik_t  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:10:35pm

I’m going to assume some folks meant that both parties deserve the full protection and recognition of the law, as the alternative is stupid vigilantism.

149 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:10:53pm

re: #143 erik_t

One, in my dreams.

In science there is only one. The number of alleles we have for any given trait is very small.

150 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:11:10pm

re: #147 Killgore Trout

Hooray!. It’s been a while since we’ve agreed on anything.

I’ll pop the champagne!

151 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:11:50pm

re: #150 sattv4u2

I’ll pop the champagne!

I’ll get the hookah!

152 b_sharp  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:11:55pm

re: #150 sattv4u2

I’ll pop the champagne!

No way dude, you’ll drink it all.

I’ll open it.

153 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:11:56pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Interesting — it looks like Geller’s site may have been hacked somehow, or maybe she screwed something up.

When I go to her front page, I’m getting redirected to sites like “buzzya.com” and “therugged.com”. Are any of you seeing the same thing?

[Link: atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com…]

I’m getting the same pamcrap. Some spam would have been better.

154 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:12:15pm

re: #144 Obdicut

No, that’s calling for his execution without trial. That’s dumb.

It most certainly is not calling for his execution - he’s entitled to a fair trial because he’s in the United States. Doesn’t mean he deserves it which is an entirely different argument.

155 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:12:34pm

re: #152 A Little Bit Shady

No way dude, you’ll drink it all.

I’ll open it.

{hic},,, huh??

Ya snooze, ya lose !

156 allegro  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:12:50pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

I see a few people here that seem to be advocating that Zimmerman be shot without a fair trial. Call be a right wing radical wingnut but I don’t think that’s fair.

A response that has exactly zero anything to do with the subject of the post you made that I responded to.

157 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:13:16pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

I’ll get the hookah!

I ain’t payin for your sexcapade

158 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:14:11pm

re: #154 leftynyc

It most certainly is not calling for his execution - he’s entitled to a fair trial because he’s in the United States. Doesn’t mean he deserves it which is an entirely different argument.

Then you’re using the word pretty loosely. If you say someone doesn’t deserve a fair trial that generally means you’d be happy if they didn’t get one.

159 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:15:50pm

re: #145 Killgore Trout

I see a few people here that seem to be advocating that Zimmerman be shot without a fair trial. Call be a right wing radical wingnut but I don’t think that’s fair.

Nobody is advocating his being shot without trial. Are you unable to understand the difference between being entitled to something and being deserving of something? Apparently not - which would be your problem.

160 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:16:45pm

re: #158 Obdicut

Then you’re using the word pretty loosely. If you say someone doesn’t deserve a fair trial that generally means you’d be happy if they didn’t get one.

There is no happiness to be found anywhere in this situation. That’s just your interpretation of my words.

161 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:18:31pm

re: #160 leftynyc

There is no happiness to be found anywhere in this situation. That’s just your interpretation of my words.

Thank you for clarifying, but the common usage of saying someone deserves something is saying that that’s what you want them to get. And you said he deserved the same consideration he gave the kid he killed.

I fully accept you meant on some metaphysical level, but that sort of language gets tricky fast.

162 erik_t  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:19:05pm

re: #159 leftynyc

Nobody is advocating his being shot without trial. Are you unable to understand the difference between being entitled to something and being deserving of something? Apparently not - which would be your problem.

In the context of basic human rights, I cannot qualify a difference between being entitled and being deserving. It’s a fundamentally unsound question.

163 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:19:12pm

re: #130 Killgore Trout

Yes. It seems the press, the police and politicians are all doing the right thing so far. Even dopey Al Sharpton is showing up to free publicity. Everybody doing what they’re supposed to do so far.

Do you really think Al Sharpton doesn’t actually care about racial injustice in the legal system?

164 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:19:19pm

re: #161 Obdicut

I will try and be more careful.

165 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:21:01pm

re: #128 A Little Bit Shady

Both fuel prices and oil prices are determined by the market which is affected by global conditions. No amount of drilling in the US will affect global markets more than a tiny amount.

Unless drilling unleashes the radon monsters leading to large decrease in driving and other petroleum use by Americans.

Which is just about the only way to get back to $2.50 a gallon gas. Trigger a massive cut-back in domestic demand by eliminating cars, drivers, and willingness to make the trips.

166 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:21:41pm

re: #146 Obdicut

You really want him just shot?

Of course not. I want him in prison for murder.

167 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:22:11pm

re: #166 Lidane


Well, that’s more consideration than he gave the kid that he shot.

168 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:22:50pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Maybe he changed it from Jorge Zimmermano.

I’m working with a Brazilian contractor whose last name is Ishizawa.
:)

169 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:23:51pm

re: #55 Killgore Trout

He needs and deserves a proper investigation and a fair trial first.

Not a drone? Damn.

170 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:24:46pm

re: #167 Obdicut

Here’s the thing, though — I want him in jail now. I want the cops who tried to walk away from this with “self-defense” to be put on administrative leave and I want the feds to dig into this story.

Zimmerman was told to not get involved. He was told not to follow Martin. He CHOSE to shoot an unarmed kid. For that, he should be in jail for murder. Full stop.

171 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:26:03pm

re: #170 Lidane

I think that given his previous assault on a police officer, he should probably be being held without bail. Sure, they can’t arrest him without the evidence yet, but standard police procedure would be hold him for forty-eight hours while getting testimony from him.

172 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:28:44pm

re: #171 Obdicut

Previous assault on a police officer should have gotten him held pending charges given that he shot an unarmed teenager. The fact that he’s out free is disgusting to me. He should be behind bars.

He didn’t give any consideration to Trayvon Martin’s rights, so why should his be honored? Let his ass sit in jail while an investigation takes place. Simple as that.

173 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:29:07pm

re: #171 Obdicut

I think that given his previous assault on a police officer, he should probably be being held without bail. Sure, they can’t arrest him without the evidence yet, but standard police procedure would be hold him for forty-eight hours while getting testimony from him.

Here’s where my distinction comes in - he’s entitled to the benefit of the doubt until all the evidence is in. He’s in no way deserving of it.

174 erik_t  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:30:42pm

re: #172 Lidane

He didn’t give any consideration to Trayvon Martin’s rights, so why should his be honored? Let his ass sit in jail while an investigation takes place. Simple as that.

Precisely what he was thinking during the possible commission of a crime has nothing to do with whether he should be treated according to the conventions and laws of this society. Following the law is far superior to following the law-plus-whatever-righteous-anger-you-might-have.

175 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:31:13pm

re: #173 leftynyc

Here’s where my distinction comes in - he’s entitled to the benefit of the doubt until all the evidence is in. He’s in no way deserving of it.

To me, that’s a distinction without a difference. And that’s not what you originally said— you said he deserved the same consideration he gave the kid, which was none. Less than none.

176 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:32:50pm

re: #172 Lidane

He didn’t give any consideration to Trayvon Martin’s rights, so why should his be honored? Let his ass sit in jail while an investigation takes place. Simple as that.

You can’t just hold a person in jail indefinitely without charging them. As I said, forty-eight hours hold is allowable while they gather evidence, and that they didn’t do that is pretty shocking. Generally, they would have been asking him to tell and retell his story to see if any inconsistencies came up.

But yes, we have to give his rights consideration otherwise the whole system goes to shit.

177 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:33:40pm

re: #174 erik_t

Normally I would agree with you, but in this case I’m making an exception.

He deliberately shot and killed an unarmed teenager because that kid was black in a gated community. He was told not to intervene, that the police would handle things. He was told not to follow Trayvon Martin. He CHOSE to ignore the police and shoot anyway.

He also has a history of violence and an assault charge when he attacked a cop. Why is he out on the streets again?

178 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:35:36pm

re: #163 Obdicut

Do you really think Al Sharpton doesn’t actually care about racial injustice in the legal system?

I think he does in his own way but he has a history of being on the wrong side of a lot of cases. Tawana Brawley for example. He may actually care about about racial justice but his real problem is he doesn’t care enough about the truth.

179 erik_t  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:35:59pm

re: #177 Lidane

He also has a history of violence and an assault charge when he attacked a cop. Why is he out on the streets again?

Acting wholly within the law, implication in this crime combined with a history of violence would seem to be enough to hold him in custody at this time. Blacks, gated community, etc etc etc need not enter in this.

180 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:36:05pm

re: #175 Obdicut

To me, that’s a distinction without a difference. And that’s not what you originally said— you said he deserved the same consideration he gave the kid, which was none. Less than none.

Exactly (and I’m not understanding your not seeing a difference). As this happened in a US city, he’s entitled to all the consideration our constitution gives. Does he deserve it? Not in my mind.

181 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:37:37pm

re: #178 Killgore Trout

I think he does in his own way but he has a history of being on the wrong side of a lot of cases. Tawana Brawley for example. He may actually care about about racial justice but his real problem is he doesn’t care enough about the truth.

He also has a history of being on the right side of a bunch of cases. Insinuating he’s just showing up for publicity is dumb. He’s spent his entire life on civil rights work and there’s no reason to disbelieve his sincerity, even if he is a pompous ass about it and often lets zeal blind him.

182 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:38:48pm

re: #180 leftynyc

Exactly (and I’m not understanding your not seeing a difference). As this happened in a US city, he’s entitled to all the consideration our constitution gives. Does he deserve it? Not in my mind.

I don’t know any other way to put it. In common English usage, if you say someone doesn’t deserve something, you’re saying it should be taken away from them. If you say someone deserves something, you’re saying that’s what they should get.

You’re using it in a way contrary to common usage; you explained yourself, so that’s fine, but don’t expect people to understand you’re using it in this alternate meaning.

183 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:39:11pm

re: #179 erik_t

Acting wholly within the law, implication in this crime combined with a history of violence would seem to be enough to hold him in custody at this time. Blacks, gated community, etc etc etc need not enter in this.

Except that black in a gated community is what got this guy following Trayvon Martin in the first place. Do you honestly think he would have freaked out if the kid had been white?

This guy is unbalanced and has a history of violence. He’s attacked police officers before. He shot an unarmed kid for racist reasons after being told by the police not to get involved and not to interfere. He’s a danger and shouldn’t be walking around free.

184 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:39:17pm

re: #180 leftynyc

As this happened in a US city, he’s entitled to all the consideration our constitution gives. Does he deserve it? Not in my mind.

Interesting. He’s entitled to protections he doesn’t deserve. Does it follow that that you think it’s justified to remove that entitlement because he’s undeserving?

185 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:40:37pm

re: #183 Lidane

If they don’t have enough evidence to charge him, they can hold him at most for forty-eight hours. That’s all there is to it. Unless you’re saying he should be committed, which is a pretty dangerous road.

186 erik_t  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:42:00pm

re: #183 Lidane

This guy is unbalanced and has a history of violence. He’s attacked police officers before. He shot an unarmed kid for racist reasons after being told by the police not to get involved and not to interfere. He’s a danger and shouldn’t be walking around free.

Precisely correct, insofar as we act within the law’s definition of a ‘danger’, and act within the law in terms of how we keep him from being free. Now what, again, does this have to do with a discussion of what rights were or were not honored by whom, and who does and does not deserve other rights?

Other than the right to not get shot, obviously.

187 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:42:08pm

re: #185 Obdicut

They didn’t even try to look for evidence to charge him. They believed his “self-defense” bullshit and let him go. WTF.

188 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:44:51pm

Bringing Al Sharpton into the argument. Classic poisoning of the well.

Facepalm!

189 Varek Raith  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:46:03pm

I’m against whatever the LGF community is for!!!!
/

190 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:47:23pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Interesting. He’s entitled to protections he doesn’t deserve. Does it follow that that you think it’s justified to remove that entitlement because he’s undeserving?

Not unless you want to throw the constitution out the window - which I don’t. As far as him being entitled to something he doesn’t deserve - that’s exactly it. In my mind those are two entirely different things but I’m getting the message that others don’t differentiate so I’ll try and be more clear in the future.

191 Gus  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:47:31pm

Every time race comes up invariably Al Sharpton comes into the argument. Just like every time AGW came up Al Gore was brought up. How old school can you get. That’s something we leave for Hot Air or Michelle Malkin.

192 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:48:56pm

re: #182 Obdicut

I think the difference is that entitled is a legal distinction, deserving is a moral distinction.

195 Lidane  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:52:28pm

re: #192 leftynyc

I think the difference is that entitled is a legal distinction, deserving is a moral distinction.

That’s a distinction I can get behind.

Yeah, there are laws and procedures to follow. I know that. I get it. However, I don’t think Zimmerman deserves them because his actions to me are immoral and unforgivable. He’ll get whatever rights he’s entitled to under the law, but IMO he should count himself lucky that he has those rights, especially since he was so quick to deny those same rights to a kid.

196 sattv4u2  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:53:30pm

re: #194 Killgore Trout

Boycott!

Army Cot!

Image: militarycots.h5.jpg

197 leftynyc  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:54:17pm

re: #195 Lidane

That’s a distinction I can get behind.

Yeah, there are laws and procedures to follow. I know that. I get it. However, I don’t think Zimmerman deserves them because his actions to me are immoral and unforgivable. He’ll get whatever rights he’s entitled to under the law, but IMO he should count himself lucky that he has those rights, especially since he was so quick to deny those same rights to a kid.

Oy Vey - Exactly - I was obviously having trouble saying what you did quite eloquently. Thank you.

198 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:59:50pm

re: #82 Lidane

Torquemada in a sweater vest. Simple as that.

And spewing Falangist ideology.

199 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 1:59:59pm

re: #187 Lidane

They didn’t even try to look for evidence to charge him. They believed his “self-defense” bullshit and let him go. WTF.

Yes, and that’s dumb. As I said.

200 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 2:01:03pm

re: #195 Lidane

But you don’t actually know what his actions are yet. We don’t know the actual story. We may never. We know that he did one terrible thing— disobeying the cops to go vigilante. But as to the killing itself, we don’t have a clear picture right now.

201 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 3:00:25pm

The National Council of Americans, Inc?

That’s really fucking offensive.

202 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 3:07:25pm

re: #185 Obdicut

If they don’t have enough evidence to charge him, they can hold him at most for forty-eight hours. That’s all there is to it. Unless you’re saying he should be committed, which is a pretty dangerous road.

Well, I believe he certainly meets the criterion of being a threat to himself and others. What kind of freak thinks he needs to chase strangers out of his neighborhood after dark, and furthermore thinks he needs to pack heat while doing it?

If Florida can’t figure out how to prosecute this loser, I hope the feds step in. The guy deserves to spend the rest of his life in prison. I have a teenage son who likes to stroll down to Sonic late at night to buy a slush or an ice cream sometimes…if we had a 7/11 close, he’d go there. I just can’t believe this story—in 2012, in the USA, a kid got killed with skittles and iced tea because he was black.

203 Obdicut  Mon, Mar 19, 2012 3:43:53pm

re: #202 funky chicken

I really don’t like committing people on that basis. It should only be after a psychiatric diagnosis. I’m fine with him getting a psych workup, and, as I said, he ought to have been held for 48 and interviewed heavily— and given an alcohol/tox screen— but he wasn’t.


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