FBI Mosque Informer: A Convicted Con Artist

US News • Views: 2,392

And the hits just keep on coming, with an Orange County Weekly exposé on an FBI informer who insisted he was hot on the trail of terrorist plots at OC mosques—until he turned out to be a convicted felon and con artist: The FBI, the Islamic Center of Irvine and Craig Monteilh: Who Was Conning Whom?

If there’s a precise moment when the FBI first began to have a sinking feeling about Craig Monteilh, it likely occurred sometime in the spring of 2007, when his handlers read a small detail buried in one of his surveillance reports. Monteilh had been spying on the Islamic Center of Irvine and other mosques for several months. He’d earned the friendship and trust of a small group of Muslims, all of whom, he claims, were actually terrorists bent on carrying out violent attacks in Orange County. Their targets included shopping malls such as Fashion Island, South Coast Plaza and the Irvine Spectrum and, somewhat improbably, abandoned buildings in downtown Los Angeles.

According to his report, Monteilh was walking into a mosque in Tustin with a couple of the terrorists whose cell he’d infiltrated when he noticed a group of young Middle Eastern-looking men unloading several barrels from a van and hauling them into the mosque. At the time, Monteilh insists, he didn’t really think too much about what he saw. He was too busy focusing on the terror plot that he and the terrorists planned to discuss at the mosque that day.

“I looked at them like this, really quick, ‘Salaam aleikum,’” Monteilh recalls two years later in an interview at his house in Irvine, re-enacting the casual sideways glance and standard Islamic greeting—“Peace be unto you”—that he says he uttered that spring day. “I kept walking because we had other business. But I put it in my report that I observed six to eight young Middle Eastern Muslims loading barrels in the back of the mosque.”

But when Monteilh’s FBI handlers read his report, he claims, they began arguing about whether or not he was a liar. “They went, ‘What the hell is this?’” Monteilh recalls. “‘He’s lying.’” The FBI refuses to comment on anything Monteilh says, so assuming any of this happened the way Monteilh says it did, one could easily imagine what went through his handlers’ minds when they read his report: Maybe it wasn’t such a great idea to hire a convicted felon and con artist to spy on Orange County’s Muslim community after all.

Read the whole sad story.

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277 comments
1 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:07:33pm

Who was that mosqued man?

/apologies to buzzsawmonkey

2 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:08:01pm

pbh

3 quickjustice  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:10:19pm

A con man, un-mosqued? ;-)

4 Timbre  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:10:47pm

Convicts and lies,
go together like
bullcrap and flies.

5 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:11:25pm

pay attention everyone....while the US is distracted by our president and the economy, our terrorists enemies continue their work.

bankruptcy matters not to the planners in the hills of Afghanistan, or their financiers in saudi arabia.

6 quickjustice  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:12:28pm

He's paid more for unearthing dangerous plots. He's conning both the FBI and his prey.

7 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:13:42pm

Now, I do have to say upfront; the FBI's reliance on one bad informant hardly proves there's no jihadist infiltration of US mosques.

8 quickjustice  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:13:45pm

"Con man" is short for "confidence man", not convict, although this guy seems to have been both.

9 jaunte  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:14:47pm

There's a sucker born every minute. This way to al-egress.

10 nyc redneck  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:15:20pm

there are con artists in all walks of life.
this doesn't mean we should put our guard down abt. what jihadis are doing in mosques.

11 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:17:32pm

Charles, why do you hate cons?

12 quickjustice  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:17:56pm

re: #7 Occasional Reader

Agreed. And there's a mosque here in Queens, NYC, that seems to make and receive multiple overseas phone calls to and from Al Quaeda suspects that no one can explain. I'm sure the NSA or NYPD has been watching them for years.

13 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:17:57pm

re: #11 MandyManners

Charles, why do you hate cons?

Neocons?

Paleocons?

Theocons?

14 Timbre  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:18:11pm

re: #7 Occasional Reader

You are exactly right, OR, and the FBI needs to recruit young males who can learn Arabic, and methods of Salat, and talk the talk, and walk of Salafism. imho

15 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:18:13pm

Charles, why do you hate informants?

16 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:18:36pm

re: #13 Occasional Reader

Neocons?

Paleocons?

Theocons?

Fedcons?

17 seagreenroom  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:18:56pm

This kind of stuff really bugs me. It's like Bush giving conservatives a bad name. The fact this guy is a shady character will help foster the belief that there is no muslim problem in the U.S. This is unfortunate because UC Irvine is notoriously rife with western-civilization-hating, wannabe-jihadi muslims.

And that's a fact.

18 quickjustice  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:19:39pm

Informers or informants? Either way, they're gonna rat you out!

19 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:19:45pm

re: #10 nyc redneck

there are con artists in all walks of life.
this doesn't mean we should put our guard down abt. what jihadis are doing in mosques.

yep...i've been bitching about this to my friends. everyone has seemed to totally forget 9/11

20 nyc redneck  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:22:11pm

re: #13 Occasional Reader

Neocons?

Paleocons?

Theocons?

wow, paleocon? i think that's what i am.
i love fossils. and i'm a conservative.

21 quickjustice  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:22:18pm

re: #5 coldwarrior

Wisely said, but an argument can be made that wrecking the U.S. economy is something that even 9/11 never accomplished. That Americans did this to Americans is of grave concern.

22 Timbre  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:23:28pm

I'd better go, LGF friends. These are the threads that can get me in trouble at work. Especially after 6 ozs. of "Natural Light" beer. Happy May Day!

23 jaunte  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:23:36pm

This doesn't sound good; from the last page of the article:

In May 2006, just before the FBI’s Tidwell insisted the bureau would never spy on mosques, Syed and several other Muslim leaders filed a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with the FBI, demanding records of any surveillance operations against them. When the FBI handed over only 50 pages of heavily redacted material, the ACLU filed a lawsuit and ultimately won hundreds of pages—most of them blacked-out—showing that the FBI had indeed been monitoring them. The FBI continues to withhold numerous records on national-security grounds, but on April 20, a federal judge ordered the FBI to hand over those records.
24 formercorpsman  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:25:44pm

No, we should not let our guard down.

That being said, realize the FBI was involved with this. It rose to a level of some importance to get their attention, only to be a farce.

This gives ammunition to the shit birds, and spin doctors who do the bidding for real jihadist scum.

In as much as this is a physical confrontation, it is also fought in other realms.

This is a win in the other column. A loss for those fighting the good fight. Despite the fact nobody would support this guy.

My mother always said to me, "Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see" which seems to ring true more each day.

25 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:25:58pm

Danielle should've stomped on his in-step. I might've stomped a bit higher if some freakin' creep had approached me after ogling me.

26 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:27:26pm

It's better to have this out in the open, no matter what the short term consequences might be.

27 abolitionist  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:28:02pm

There's a short video statement by Craig Monteilh on this page:
Man says he informed on Muslims for FBI

28 formercorpsman  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:28:10pm

Yes

29 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:29:29pm

re: #20 nyc redneck

wow, paleocon? i think that's what i am.

I hope that with some time at the pool this summer, I can graduate from paleocon to tannedeocon.

30 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:29:36pm
One person who read the post was “Carla”—which is not her real name—a previous Monteilh victim. She had met Monteilh in February 2006 at Twin Towers Fitness in Irvine. “We actually started dating,” she says. “He was actually the worst lay of my life,

Oh. My. Stars.

31 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:30:35pm

re: #21 quickjustice

we are no farther down than we were in the late 70's. we need to get back to manufacturing base and not a consumption base, but that wont happen because off shore labor and laws are cheaper. so design and ideas are next.

the problem is that we had a gross over reaction by the govt (bush and obama). see, capitalism requires failure to get the lessons right. we are managing to reward bad behavior now. hopefully, obama and his knuckleheads in the legislature dont take us too far down the rabbit hole.

they will over reach and then (i pray) the US snaps back to normalcy. we are acting like its the great depression redux, it aint. its gonna be bad, but not that bad....yet.

32 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:31:28pm

What in the world is wrong with these women?!

33 freetoken  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:31:33pm

re: #20 nyc redneck


i love fossils. and i'm a conservative.

Triassicon?

34 formercorpsman  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:34:22pm

Well, I just ran through the whole story.

Oh boy.

This is going to be long ride.

Good night guys, I have wheel hubs to change tomorrow.

35 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:34:42pm

The FBI was stung by this mosque-ito.

36 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:34:49pm

What's with the sudden focus on Islam, Charles? I don't understand it. I come here to stay informed and up to date on obscure musicians, jazz performances, and the occasional tech updates. This is not the blog I thought I knew, and I fear this is becoming an obsession for you.

I think you should take a step back and reevaluate your priorities, and refocus on the truly important threats to our nation (i.e. jazz guitarists and flippy triangle blog menus).

You seem to be going off the deep end here, and that concerns me. I'll be praying for your soul.

Respectfully,

Whiny Reactionary Douchebag, Esq.
////

37 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:36:16pm

re: #31 coldwarrior

They are striving for mediocrity. Truly, they want NO ONE to excel, and it is much easier to keep the excellent down than to help others up.

38 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:36:27pm

I had to quit reading before I popped a cork.

I've heard the saying that you can con a greedy person, and that seems to be the case with Danielle and Carla.

What does that say about the F.B.I.? The objects of the greed are different but, the motivations seem to be the same.

39 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:37:16pm

Meanwhile, I'm amazed that Ed Morrissey is apparently planning to ignore the fact that he made a serious error in his post about the latest DHS memo.

40 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:38:36pm

This story is really bad. If anything will resurrect CAIR after the HLF trial exposed them as a Hamas front, it's stories like this -- and Robert Spencer's idiotic alliances.

41 Cato the Elder  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:39:38pm

OT, sort of:

Countries with worst religious tolerance records

The U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom's annual report named Myanmar, North Korea, Eritrea, Iran, Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan, China, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Vietnam.

It recommended that the Obama administration designate them as "countries of particular concern" or CPC.

The group has issued a watch list that includes Afghanistan, Belarus, Cuba, Egypt, Indonesia, Laos, Russia, Somalia, Tajikistan, Turkey, and Venezuela, countries that don't rise to the level of a CPC but need to be monitored.

Anybody see any favoritism here? I don't.

42 Timbre  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:40:30pm

One more thing: I have several times reported Al-Talib as an Islamic mail-drop for incarcerated Muslims to correspond with each other. Click on the "Al-Murasalah" section and evaluate their context.

43 Bob Dillon  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:40:54pm

re: #15 MandyManners

Charles, why do you hate informants?

Mandy ... why do you like to tickle the dragons tail?
/

44 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:41:05pm

re: #37 Van Helsing

you are right.

but remember, there is a political pendulum. 67-68 looked bleak, the late 70's looked horrible. we just cant take this lying down.

i may actually run for office.

45 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:41:28pm

re: #38 MandyManners

I had to quit reading before I popped a cork.

I've heard the saying that you can con a greedy person, and that seems to be the case with Danielle and Carla.

What does that say about the F.B.I.? The objects of the greed are different but, the motivations seem to be the same.


46 Promethea  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:42:02pm

re: #40 Charles

This story is really bad. If anything will resurrect CAIR after the HLF trial exposed them as a Hamas front, it's stories like this -- and Robert Spencer's idiotic alliances.

This is "history" as it really is, not as it's described in the textbooks. In the real histories of World War II, for example, there were many many screw-ups. Many.

We just have to keep doing what we've been doing (stay rational), and hope that things turn out all right.

47 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:42:12pm

re: #41 Cato the Elder

OT, sort of:

Countries with worst religious tolerance records

Anybody see any favoritism here? I don't.

I don't see Israel on this list, isn't it an apartheid state?
/yes this is sarc

48 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:42:26pm

I haven't really digested this yet. Still trying to figure it out but Hassan Butt comes to mind.

49 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:42:58pm

re: #40 Charles

This story is really bad. If anything will resurrect CAIR after the HLF trial exposed them as a Hamas front, it's stories like this -- and Robert Spencer's idiotic alliances.

Well... alternate explanation: If the FBI were aggressively trying to keep an eye on potential jihadist activity in US mosques, something like this was bound to happen eventually.

50 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:43:54pm

re: #43 Bobibutu

Mandy ... why do you like to tickle the dragons tail?
/

Because I figure the dragon knows a joke when he sees one.

51 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:44:20pm

Yeesh.
....still reading....

52 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:44:37pm

re: #39 Charles

I don't follow his posts closely, but he did stand on the side of reason when it came to the nirth certifikat and sekrit muslim topics.

Could this be a case of him pandering to some the more insane elements of his audience? Or is it something else?

53 Cato the Elder  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:45:05pm

And in the free-range idiocy department:

Israeli official: Swine flu name offensive

The outbreak of swine flu should be renamed "Mexican" influenza in deference to Muslim and Jewish sensitivities over pork, said an Israeli health official Monday.

Never mind science - the name is offensive.

Oink!

54 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:45:39pm

re: #49 Occasional Reader

Well... alternate explanation: If the FBI were aggressively trying to keep an eye on potential jihadist activity in US mosques, something like this was bound to happen eventually.

But wait! That's impossible! Haven't we been hearing from the entire right wing blogosphere that the DHS (which includes the FBI) is clueless and stupid and trying to smear conservatives?

No way they're actually monitoring mosques. Inconceivable.

55 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:46:00pm

re: #43 Bobibutu

She's freaky like that. Don't judge.
/

56 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:46:21pm

re: #49 Occasional Reader

Well... alternate explanation: If the FBI were aggressively trying to keep an eye on potential jihadist activity in US mosques, something like this was bound to happen eventually.

That's what I think. I hope that there is a better way to vet informants nowadays.

57 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:46:42pm

re: #53 Cato the Elder

And in the free-range idiocy department:

Israeli official: Swine flu name offensive

Never mind science - the name is offensive.

Oink!

yeah, cause if its called swine flu, it'll be more dangerous.

if it H1N1, its just a bunch numerletterthingies

58 lifeofthemind  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:47:52pm

Anyone in Law Enforcement will tell you that to learn about criminals you have to deal with, well criminals. If you spend your time talking to fine honest upstanding citizens you don't learn much, although I bet those OC grandmas bake some nice cookies. Personally I am willing to volunteer for the Fashion Model Protection and Interrogation Unit.

59 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:48:45pm

FMPIU...

yep.

60 experiencedtraveller  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:49:07pm

“If you will front me some money now, I will pay you back with huge returns.”

OK then... Check please!

61 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:49:09pm

An embarrassment for the FBI. Cover for CAIR. A lot to wade through in that article but that is my take away.

Just one more step back in the time machine that is set to Sept 10, 2001.

I wish I knew what comes next but lacking the forward looking time machine I will simply have to suspect it will not be good.

62 Timbre  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:49:12pm

re: #57 coldwarrior

How about the Creeping Cat flu, or the Prison Pigeon Pestilence (Prognosis Poor), or the Howling Hamster Hantavirus.

63 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:49:34pm

re: #58 lifeofthemind

Anyone in Law Enforcement will tell you that to learn about criminals you have to deal with, well criminals. If you spend your time talking to fine honest upstanding citizens you don't learn much, although I bet those OC grandmas bake some nice cookies. Personally I am willing to volunteer for the Fashion Model Protection and Interrogation Unit.

Sure. You deal with criminals. But you don't send a convicted con man in as an undercover agent and expect to get good intelligence. This is a major screw-up.

64 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:49:56pm

re: #60 experiencedtraveller

“If you will front me some money now, I will pay you back with huge returns.”

OK then... Check please!

As I said above, you cannot con a non-greedy person.

65 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:49:59pm

re: #54 Charles

You made me do it. Don't be angry.
:)

66 freetoken  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:50:04pm

OT, sort of anyway.... the next big wave in anti-science denialism?

Crazy is as crazy does: EXPELLED and House of Numbers

It'll be interesting to see how the blogosphere reacts when the movie is released. Something tells me that the usual subjects (Beck, Jones) will find this movie to compelling to overlook.

67 experiencedtraveller  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:50:26pm

re: #64 MandyManners

As I said above, you cannot con a non-greedy person.

“I was dumb enough to write him a check,” she says

68 lifeofthemind  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:50:47pm

Posted in the Spin offs a link to Andrew McCarthy's smackdown of Erich Holder, beautiful.

69 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:51:15pm

re: #62 Timbre

oooh...hantavirus! thats some bad sh*t, there!

70 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:51:22pm

re: #67 experiencedtraveller

“I was dumb enough to write him a check,” she says

Which one: Danielle or Carla?

71 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:51:53pm

re: #70 MandyManners

Which one: Danielle or Carla?

Yes, they blended into one at a certain point.

72 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:52:14pm

This looks pretty bad. I have some doubts but I don't think this is going to go well.

73 Randall Gross  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:52:38pm
While at the prison, Monteilh claims, he ran with the PEN1 Death Squad, a white-supremacist prison gang. “If you are reasonably intelligent, you can learn their doctrine. ‘We must secure the existence of our race and the future of our white children.’ If you memorize that, along with certain key precepts, you’re pretty much in, and if you memorize all of it, you are leadership. That’s what I did.”
74 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:52:45pm

re: #54 Charles

But wait! That's impossible! Haven't we been hearing from the entire right wing blogosphere that the DHS (which includes the FBI) is clueless and stupid and trying to smear conservatives?

No way they're actually monitoring mosques. Inconceivable.

To put it mildly, I carry no water for the school of thought to which you're referring, of course.

At the same time, in the name of intellectual honesty, one has to note that the events to which this article refer occurred during the Bush Administration, not the Obama Administration.

75 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:53:17pm

re: #42 Timbre

One more thing: I have several times reported Al-Talib as an Islamic mail-drop for incarcerated Muslims to correspond with each other. Click on the "Al-Murasalah" section and evaluate their context.

The name is a giveaway.

The only other place I've heard the word "Talib" is in a news clip from the late 2001 timeframe of Afghans taunting the retreating Taliban over the radio. The Afghan on our side was using a hand-held radio to talk to the Taliban across the valley, and he was starting his calls with "Talib, talib, talib". This might have been around Tora Bora time or slightly earlier. I remember the clip from the evening Teevee Nooz (and I think late '01/early '02 might have been the last time I really watched TV news, come to think of it).

I'm no language expert but I'd bet there's an association there. :p

76 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:53:27pm

re: #73 Thanos

oh man....

management, eh?

77 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:53:37pm

re: #74 Occasional Reader

To put it mildly, I carry no water for the school of thought to which you're referring, of course.

At the same time, in the name of intellectual honesty, one has to note that the events to which this article refer occurred during the Bush Administration, not the Obama Administration.

And so did the horrible DHS memo on right wing extremism.

78 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:54:55pm

re: #72 Killgore Trout

This looks pretty bad. I have some doubts but I don't think this is going to go well.

We'll be okay.


79 experiencedtraveller  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:55:13pm

re: #71 MandyManners

Yes, they blended into one at a certain point.

I blame the “pharmaceutical cartel".

80 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:55:14pm

re: #58 lifeofthemind

Personally I am willing to volunteer for the Fashion Model Protection and Interrogation Unit.

Welcome to The Team. Here's your assignment.

(Me, I chose the Female Target Division, but to each his own.)

81 ratherdashing  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:55:18pm

I read this and think of the wasted resources involved. It must be frustrating to the FBI handlers. It only makes the next attempt more difficult.

82 tom from pv  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:56:13pm

The "right wing/left wing" model of American politics really falls apart here. Muslims supported the Democrat party in places like Michigan -- even though Democrats are opposed to so many of Islam's tenets. The bottom line for those Muslims was the war in Iraq which they opposed.

OTOH, these Muslims from Irvine are being portrayed as another example of right wing extremists. And, of course, Islam is typically portrayed as one more out-of-touch religion that can't handle the brave new world of liberated women, same-sex marriage, secular laws, etc.

I wonder when we will move away from the simplistic view of politics and engage a discussion using terms that mean something? Terrorist means something. Right-wing terrorist is meaningless (see above).

83 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:56:53pm

re: #78 MandyManners

Get it while you can

84 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:56:57pm

re: #77 Charles

And so did the horrible DHS memo on right wing extremism.

that memo makes me out to be a crazed, right wing, ptsd'd, vet that is capable of horrible things...actually, i just want my morning coffee, but thanks for askin!

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:57:11pm

re: #66 freetoken

Awesome! So I can go back to boinking like a rabbit without any concern for my health?

/wait...

86 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:57:11pm

re: #82 tom from pv

Just keep on beating that horse.

87 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:57:33pm

re: #77 Charles

And so did the horrible DHS memo on right wing extremism.

I agree. Preaching to the converted, here.

88 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 8:59:31pm

re: #79 experiencedtraveller

I blame the “pharmaceutical cartel".

His predatory actions against women should have set off alarms in the F.B.I..

HELLO, F.B.I.! YOU MIGHT WANT TO CHECK OUT NARCISSISM/SOCIOPATHOLOGY WHEN IT COMES TO VETTING YOUR SUBJECTS.

Oopsie. That might spill over into areas you cannot go....

89 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:00:43pm

re: #83 Killgore Trout

Get it while you can



Oh, thank you, KT! Beauty lasts forever.

90 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:01:00pm

No meltdowns yet? Have we melted all that's metlable? No sockpuppet left standing?

91 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:01:26pm

re: #84 coldwarrior

Does it, really?

92 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:02:25pm

re: #90 Killgore Trout

Oh, shut up, Kilgore, and listen to No. 83.

93 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:03:34pm

Good evening lizards....what have I missed today?

94 Randall Gross  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:04:08pm

He's good at conning, he conned the FBI. The thing about victims of con men though is that victim has to aid the con themselves. It's not dismaying that it happened, it is dismaying that it went on so long.

I think I recall seeing a video of that car incident with the MSU guy online too.

95 Gus  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:04:10pm

Monteilh uses his position as an informant for the FBI (allegedly) to bilk money from these two women to buy steroids. No arrests are made and no follow up on this alleged investigaion. Monteilh retains the money which would have been part of this investigation. No comment from the FBI? No arrest of Monteilh?

This might call for an investigation of his alleged FBI handlers. Were they taking a cut from these alleged sting operations? If so who and how many may have been involved. On the face of things he obviously pocketed the money.

96 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:04:25pm

re: #92 MandyManners

Heh. So many people (like Jim Morrison) from that era were overrated. Janice was truly gifted, it's really a phenomenal performance.

97 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:04:30pm

re: #90 Killgore Trout

No meltdowns yet? Have we melted all that's metlable? No sockpuppet left standing?

Kilgore, you're enjoying this too much. Meltdowns from a conservative crack-up are not funny, they're rather sad in fact.

98 _RememberTonyC  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:05:58pm

re: #54 Charles

But wait! That's impossible! Haven't we been hearing from the entire right wing blogosphere that the DHS (which includes the FBI) is clueless and stupid and trying to smear conservatives?

No way they're actually monitoring mosques. Inconceivable.

Don't worry ... Holder and his boss will use this as an excuse to stop monitoring mosques lest they be accused of islamophobia.

99 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:06:39pm

re: #91 Slumbering Behemoth

yep, i was shocked to find out that vets (ummm. white, male vets) could be turned into 'terrorists' by supremacist organizations...see, we white guys are dumb and can be herded into this sort of thing...the latino, african, asian, native americans vets cant...guess its just a genetic or even a environment problem.

perhaps with a boat-load of funding, this affliction can be cured.

100 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:06:40pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

I've become jaded. My joy is simply a manifestation of the Zen Strawberry.
Wheeee!

101 Occasional Reader  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:07:58pm

Good night.

102 tom from pv  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:08:09pm

re: #86 Charles

Just keep on beating that horse.

The person(s) beating the dead horse are those who keep insisting that the model of American politics has a left wing and a right wing and all people fit somewhere on that line. Even lunatic types who kill people.

I'm not sure how many counter-examples need to be listed before the proponents of the "single line" theory finally admit their model falls apart at the extremes.

103 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:11:02pm

re: #96 Killgore Trout

Heh. So many people (like Jim Morrison) from that era were overrated. Janice was truly gifted, it's really a phenomenal performance.

I love her wail.

104 Randall Gross  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:11:04pm

re: #102 tom from pv

Why don't you go play on that Ron Paul kook's blog if you want to discuss what's left and right -- I think it's the Nolan chart or something.

/but you are probably just trying to derail the conversation

105 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:11:12pm

re: #102 tom from pv

Hi, Tom! Nice strawman you're building there. Charles has always accepted variations and has never adhered to a cookie-cutter model. But you're saying he is doing that, because you dislike his argument.

106 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:11:46pm

re: #101 Occasional Reader

Good night.

Don't let the bed-bugs bite!

107 experiencedtraveller  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:12:04pm

re: #88 MandyManners

Sadly, 'rats' tend to be low rent.

"he called and, apologizing profusely, invited her to meet him for dinner at Chili’s"

CHILI'S? Oh man. That is sad...

108 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:12:17pm

re: #102 tom from pv

The person(s) beating the dead horse are those who keep insisting that the model of American politics has a left wing and a right wing and all people fit somewhere on that line. Even lunatic types who kill people.

I'm not sure how many counter-examples need to be listed before the proponents of the "single line" theory finally admit their model falls apart at the extremes.

Apparently, you seem to believe this article or my post mentions "right wing" extremists. Don't let me stop you from making a fool of yourself.

109 Alberta Oil Peon  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:15:59pm

re: #102 tom from pv

The person(s) beating the dead horse are those who keep insisting that the model of American politics has a left wing and a right wing and all people fit somewhere on that line. Even lunatic types who kill people.

I'm not sure how many counter-examples need to be listed before the proponents of the "single line" theory finally admit their model falls apart at the extremes.

Tom, the notion that one's political orientation can be quantified by placing it at some point on a line is not a "theory", as it does not purport to really explain anything. It's simply a convenient descriptor that has become very widely used. Itis inadequate, but it continues to be used, just as the Qwerty keyboard has shortcomings, but continues to be used.

Don't go looking for conspiracies when simple laziness suffices to explain a phenomenon.

110 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:16:11pm

re: #99 coldwarrior

yep, i was shocked to find out that vets (ummm. white, male vets) could be turned into 'terrorists' by supremacist organizations...see, we white guys are dumb and can be herded into this sort of thing...the latino, african, asian, native americans vets cant...guess its just a genetic or even a environment problem.

perhaps with a boat-load of funding, this affliction can be cured.

Bullshit. The part I recall reading was about how extremist groups would attempt to recruit returning veterans for their benefit, and it was not at all about how, as you characterize it, a broad brush on how returning veterans are are dumb enough to be herded into extremist groups.

And where do you get this specifying "white male" veterans crap?

111 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:16:41pm

Anyone need a new USB drive?

Product Description

This 2GB USB Drive commemorates President Obama's rise to the White House with an Obama hologram on the face of the pivot-style drive. The drive comes preloaded with nearly an hour of Obama's landmark speeches in MP3 format including his Inaugural Address. This drive is tiny enough to easily fit on a keychain.

112 Mad Mullah  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:16:43pm

That article got at least one thing wrong:

The mosque’s imam, Sadullah Khan, is a widely respected moderate who grew up in South Africa and was involved in the struggle against apartheid

If he's a moderate, then so are Nazis and skinheads.
[Link: www.adl.org...]

113 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:16:46pm

re: #109 Alberta Oil Peon

.

Don't go looking for conspiracies when simple laziness suffices to explain a phenomenon.

can i use that?

its perfect.

114 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:17:48pm

Watching the opening of 2001 Space Odyssey. Still very cool. "Dawn of Man"

115 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:18:57pm

re: #112 Mad Mullah

That article got at least one thing wrong:

The mosque’s imam, Sadullah Khan, is a widely respected moderate who grew up in South Africa and was involved in the struggle against apartheid

If he's a moderate, then so are Nazis and skinheads.
[Link: www.adl.org...]

The article you linked does not mention Sadullah Khan.

116 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:19:08pm

re: #110 Slumbering Behemoth

Bullshit. The part I recall reading was about how extremist groups would attempt to recruit returning veterans for their benefit, and it was not at all about how, as you characterize it, a broad brush on how returning veterans are are dumb enough to be herded into extremist groups.

And where do you get this specifying "white male" veterans crap?

yeah, so i'm wrong...except that recruitment requires two sides.

a recruiter

a recruitee

someone has to be the assumed dummy

117 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:20:03pm

How would you taunt a Taliban, anyway? What sort of things would you say to him to piss him off? Do they have "your momma" jokes in Pashto?

"Hey Talib, Your mom is so fat, people think she's a sofa." (You know, because they put their women in potato sacks... Get it? GET IT?)

"Hey Talib, your momma's so ugly, when they put on her burka they don't know which end the eyeholes go on"

118 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:21:06pm

re: #99 coldwarrior

yep, i was shocked to find out that vets (ummm. white, male vets) could be turned into 'terrorists' by supremacist organizations...see, we white guys are dumb and can be herded into this sort of thing...the latino, african, asian, native americans vets cant...guess its just a genetic or even a environment problem.

perhaps with a boat-load of funding, this affliction can be cured.

The DHS report says absolutely nothing like that. You are exaggerating and distorting it. It said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to being recruited by extremist groups, and it DID NOT say anything about "white males."

119 Opilio  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:21:09pm

re: #109 Alberta Oil Peon

Don't go looking for conspiracies when simple laziness suffices to explain a phenomenon.

Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

120 Mad Mullah  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:21:11pm

re: #115 Charles

The article you linked does not mention Sadullah Khan.

I found the link to the ADL page from this link, which speaks of Khan hosting Dr. William Baker.

It should be noted that Sadullah Khan's organization, the Islamic Center of Irvine, just hosted Dr. William Baker - an anti-Semite - as a guest speaker this past Sunday, November 19th, from Noon to 1 pm.

[Link: concerneducistudent.blogspot.com...]

121 experiencedtraveller  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:21:55pm

re: #114 The Shadow Do

Watching the opening of 2001 Space Odyssey. Still very cool. "Dawn of Man"

Thus spake Zarathustra....

122 Pawn of the Oppressor  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:24:51pm
The DHS report says absolutely nothing like that. You are exaggerating and distorting it. It said a "small percentage" of veterans might be susceptible to being recruited by extremists groups, and it DID NOT say anything about "white males."

Indeed.

I hate seeing "Truthiness" proven to be an absolutely real phenomenon in real time.

The report never said that, but hey, it FEELS like it did, so it totally did! Voila! It's like the non-Democrat's version of "fake but accurate".

123 Killgore Trout  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:25:38pm

Here come the meltdowns.

124 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:25:47pm

re: #117 Pawn of the Oppressor

How would you taunt a Taliban, anyway? What sort of things would you say to him to piss him off? Do they have "your momma" jokes in Pashto?

"Hey Talib, Your mom is so fat, people think she's a sofa." (You know, because they put their women in potato sacks... Get it? GET IT?)

"Hey Talib, your momma's so ugly, when they put on her burka they don't know which end the eyeholes go on"

Your first mistake is thinking any of your children are your own.
Son of a thousand, father of none.

That sort of thing goes over well.

125 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:26:33pm

re: #120 Mad Mullah

I found the link to the ADL page from this link, which speaks of Khan hosting Dr. William Baker.

It should be noted that Sadullah Khan's organization, the Islamic Center of Irvine, just hosted Dr. William Baker - an anti-Semite - as a guest speaker this past Sunday, November 19th, from Noon to 1 pm.

[Link: concerneducistudent.blogspot.com...]

Right, so the article you linked did NOT say anything about Sadullah Khan, exactly as I said.

There seem to be a lot of sheikhs and imams at the Islamic Center of Irvine, and their website does not say anything about it being "Sadullah Khan's organization."

126 lifeofthemind  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:27:54pm

re: #80 Occasional Reader

Welcome to The Team. Here's your assignment.

(Me, I chose the Female Target Division, but to each his own.)

I shall retaliate in a time place and manner of my own choosing, but it will be massive.

127 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:28:41pm

re: #125 Charles

Maybe he got the information at Wikipedia?

128 Mad Mullah  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:31:09pm

re: #125 Charles

Right, so the article you linked did NOT say anything about Sadullah Khan, exactly as I said.

There seem to be a lot of sheikhs and imams at the Islamic Center of Irvine, and their website does not say anything about it being "Sadullah Khan's organization."

But isn't Sadullah Khan the leader of the Islamic Center of Irvine?

[Link: www.icoi.net...]

129 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:33:23pm

Concerned UCI Student: Sheik Sadullah Khan:

Sheik Sadullah Khan may have learned that his words do cause harm, and thus appears to have improved his language, in public at least.

So apparently he has moderated his language, in response to criticism. Shocka!

130 Alberta Oil Peon  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:33:41pm

Is it possible that the FBI had a legitimate reason to investigate the Islamic Center of Irvine, but simply bungled the job by using a con artist as their undercover agent?

131 tom from pv  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:34:03pm

re: #108 Charles

Apparently, you seem to believe this article or my post mentions "right wing" extremists. Don't let me stop you from making a fool of yourself.

I'm alluding to the vast number of posts on the same topic of so-called "right wing extremism". Its getting old, especially when the designation means nothing if one is trying to have a serious discussion.

And I return the compliment!

132 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:34:22pm

re: #120 Mad Mullah

The missing link is the one that says "just hosted Dr. William Baker" at the blog posting you linked to. Maybe the icoi scrubbed the site.

133 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:36:48pm

re: #131 tom from pv

And I return the compliment!

Bye!

134 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:36:49pm

And notice -- that post is from two years ago:

[Link: concerneducistudent.blogspot.com...]

It's remotely possible that he's not a sekrit radikal Moslem trying to trick the FBI.

135 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:37:17pm

The US troops in Afghanistan proved they have retained their sense of humor, one of them sent this.

"YOU MAY BE A TALIBAN IF..."


1. You refine heroin for a living, but you have a moral objection to beer.

2. You own a $3,000 machine gun and $5,000 rocket launcher, but you can't afford shoes.

3. You have more wives than teeth.

4. You wipe your butt with your bare hand, but consider bacon "unclean."

5. You think vests come in two styles: bullet-proof and suicide.

6. You can't think of anyone you haven't declared Jihad against.

7. You consider television dangerous, but routinely carry explosives in your clothing.

8. You were amazed to discover that cell phones have uses other than setting off roadside bombs.

9. You have nothing against women and think every man should own at least one.

10. You've always had a crush on your neighbor's goat

Heh.

136 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:37:19pm

re: #131 tom from pv

Bye now! Take care.

137 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:38:24pm

re: #130 Alberta Oil Peon

Is it possible that the FBI had a legitimate reason to investigate the Islamic Center of Irvine, but simply bungled the job by using a con artist as their undercover agent?

Yes, that is possible. But this is an even worse screw-up if that's the case.

138 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:39:19pm

re: #116 coldwarrior

yeah, so i'm wrong...except that recruitment requires two sides.

a recruiter

a recruitee

someone has to be the assumed dummy

And with your desire to play the offended victim in this little piece of baseless grievance theater, you choose to take a very specific statement that applies to a small percentage of a demographic, and twist it into a vague statement that applies to the entire demographic.

In this instance, the "recruiter" is the populist, squawking head asshole who wishes to drum up outrage for personal profit by making a mountain out of a mole hill, and the "recrutiees" are people like you who buy this line of bullshit.

Indeed, someone has to be the assumed dummy. So who is it? The squawking head sells the snake oil, or the rube that buys it?

Caveat emptor.

139 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:39:50pm

re: #136 Charles

Bye now! Take care.

And now we sit down to our late-night meal of roast troll. Could someone pass the Gamey Buttocks, please?

140 Alberta Oil Peon  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:41:46pm

re: #137 Charles

Yes, that is possible. But this is an even worse screw-up if that's the case.

No question about that. If there had been something unsavory going on, the conspirators would certainly have flown the coop by now. And any further investigations would be practically impossible to pursue in any case.

Kind of like deer hunting with an accordion.

141 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:45:02pm

re: #131 tom from pv

(I've been watching that train approach for weeks now, by the way.)

142 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:45:24pm

From the linked article..

It flew in the face of a June 2006 promise by J. Stephen Tidwell, an assistant director with the FBI, in a speech before an angry crowd at the Islamic Center of Irvine, that the bureau would never spy on mosques. That promise followed an Orange County Register story that quoted an FBI agent telling a group of Republicans in Newport Beach that the bureau was monitoring “extremists” affiliated with UC Irvine’s Muslim Student Union. (See Derek Olson’s “Against the Wall,” Oct. 19, 2007.)

I remember that story way back when it first came out. Here at LGF.

143 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:45:25pm

re: #118 Charles

re: #138 Slumbering Behemoth

i disagree with your definitions, no hard feelings.

i read the report, and it looked, well, just bad. i cant describe the problem with it, it was kinda like how the supreme court described pornography many years ago...i cant tell you what it is, but i know it when i see it. yes, i know that doesn't hold up, but, thats how i see it.

144 Walter L. Newton  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:46:35pm

re: #141 Charles

(I've been watching that train approach for weeks now, by the way.)

I missed it. Hi all.

145 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:47:11pm

I've been checking into Sadullah Khan, and while he's not a friend of Israel (which comes as no surprise) I haven't found anything in the least bit extreme about him. No jihad talk. No "infidel" talk. No ranting against apostates. If he's a sekrit radikal Moslem, he's hiding it very well.

146 Mad Mullah  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:47:30pm

Charles, I'm not sure why you would down-ping me for merely pointing out that Sadullah Khan is not a moderate, because the organization of which he is the leader of hosts speakers who are anti-semitic and have connections to holocaust deniers?

Shouldn't the same standard be applied to everybody who has links to such people?

147 Dark_Falcon  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:48:04pm

It's bedtime for me. Good night everyone.

148 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:48:33pm

re: #142 Mich-again

From the linked article..

I remember that story way back when it first came out. Here at LGF.

Yep, and I didn't believe the FBI wasn't monitoring the mosque then, either.

149 MandyManners  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:48:59pm

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

150 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:49:01pm

But I certainly didn't think they were hiring convicted felons to do their undercover work.

151 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:49:26pm

re: #146 Mad Mullah

because the organization of which he is the leader of hosts speakers who are anti-semitic and have connections to holocaust deniers?

Unless I missed something the link you posted at 120 to prove that was a dead end.

152 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:51:35pm

re: #148 Charles

UC Irvine has hosted or at least allowed a lot of idiots with bullhorns to spout pro-Pali crap over the last 5 years or so.

153 Mad Mullah  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:53:18pm

re: #151 Mich-again

Unless I missed something the link you posted at 120 to prove that was a dead end.

In the sermon, which is found on the ICOI website, Khan liberally quoted alleged neo-Nazi William Baker and described Zionism as "racist," "diabolical" and "sinister."

[Link: www.aina.org...]

154 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:54:48pm

drinking thread

155 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:55:30pm

re: #152 Mich-again

UC Irvine has hosted or at least allowed a lot of idiots with bullhorns to spout pro-Pali crap over the last 5 years or so.

Absolutely. The FBI should be monitoring what's going on at that school. It's a center of radical Islam, no doubt.

That's why this story is so pathetically sad. By hiring someone to go undercover who has such a shady background, they've completely destroyed any credibility their investigations might have had. It's bad news all around.

156 Alberta Oil Peon  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:58:24pm

Boy, LGF is sure running buggy for me tonight. Right now, the page is rendered all wierod, just plain text, with little wire frames for the boxes.

Is the Java hamster stroking out or something? Earlier, I noticed posts 129 through about 133 were all duplicated, too.

It did this earlier for me, too, and I rebooted my machine, to no apparent avail.

157 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:59:09pm

Good evening all. Hope all is well with y'all!
This story is disturbing in SO many ways I couldn't even begin to list them.
The simple facts appear, at least to me, that the FBI screwed this up VERY BADLY. They did a pretty good job of "turning" a blood thirsty murderer against a more blood thirsty murderer (Sammy "the Bull" Gavano vs. John Gotti) but seem to get into lots of trouble when they infilitrate areas which are not confirmed "hideouts" or whatever of the "enemy".
I think the idea of having FBI informants in mosques simply because they are mosques is both ridiculous and disturbing.

158 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:59:28pm

re: #155 Charles

Absolutely. The FBI should be monitoring what's going on at that school. It's a center of radical Islam, no doubt.

That's why this story is so pathetically sad. By hiring someone to go undercover who has such a shady background, they've completely destroyed any credibility their investigations might have had. It's bad news all around.


Excellent point. That's the real story. How sorry is it for the FBI when they can't even make a decent case against would-be jihadis at UC Irvine. They don't exactly hide.

159 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 1, 2009 9:59:35pm

I haven't seen "2001 A Space Odyssey" since 1968 before tonight. First man on the moon in 1969 by the way.

What the hell happened? Why is a 1968 fantasy so far beyond reality 40 years later? Scientific stasis of some sort? Damn sad in retrospect.

160 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:00:05pm

re: #159 The Shadow Do

funding

161 Randall Gross  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:00:14pm

re: #156 Alberta Oil Peon

Boy, LGF is sure running buggy for me tonight. Right now, the page is rendered all wierod, just plain text, with little wire frames for the boxes.

Is the Java hamster stroking out or something? Earlier, I noticed posts 129 through about 133 were all duplicated, too.

It did this earlier for me, too, and I rebooted my machine, to no apparent avail.

Running dreadfully slow here, but otherwise ok

162 rain of lead  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:00:15pm

re: #155 Charles

after this debacle, with the mindset of the new admin and the AG
do you think that what they should be doing and need to be doing
will be anything at all like what they willbe doing?

/duh

163 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:00:47pm

seems ok here....

164 Walter L. Newton  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:01:09pm

Ok here, with Safari.

165 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:01:22pm

re: #158 Mich-again

Excellent point. That's the real story. How sorry is it for the FBI when they can't even make a decent case against would-be jihadis at UC Irvine. They don't exactly hide.

Have there been terrorists from this mosque who were arrested and convicted of terrorism? Maybe I should go back and re-read it, skipping over the women this con artist, er, conned.

166 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:02:54pm

re: #156 Alberta Oil Peon
and
re: #161 Thanos
Seems to be working fine with IE 7 here.

167 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:03:04pm

re: #159 The Shadow Do

I haven't seen "2001 A Space Odyssey" since 1968 before tonight. First man on the moon in 1969 by the way.

What the hell happened? Why is a 1968 fantasy so far beyond reality 40 years later? Scientific stasis of some sort? Damn sad in retrospect.

Nixon, congress, Ford, congress, Carter, congress....
Really sad. We should be down to $100/lb to reach orbit and we are nowhere.

168 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:03:05pm

re: #165 realwest

Have there been terrorists from this mosque who were arrested and convicted of terrorism? Maybe I should go back and re-read it, skipping over the women this con artist, er, conned.

As far as I know, the answer is no.

169 rain of lead  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:03:35pm

oh drool drool
food network is showing a steak cook-off
damn... where is smell-o-vision when you really really need it?

170 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:03:52pm

No problems at all on this end of the Internet, by the way.

171 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:04:34pm

maybe the interwebs are all snarled on his end

172 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:04:48pm

re: #153 Mad Mullah

In the sermon, which is found on the ICOI website, Khan liberally quoted alleged neo-Nazi William Baker and described Zionism as "racist," "diabolical" and "sinister."

[Link: www.aina.org...]

I no longer trust any of the sources you're quoting there. Sorry. They've been shown to distort facts too many times for me to believe them any more.

173 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:05:01pm

re: #168 Charles Thanks Charles. I'm NOT saying that there may not have been jihadists hanging out there, but am I the only one who thinks that the FBI shouldn't be "infilitrating" mosques just because they are mosques?

174 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:06:57pm

re: #173 realwest

Thanks Charles. I'm NOT saying that there may not have been jihadists hanging out there, but am I the only one who thinks that the FBI shouldn't be "infilitrating" mosques just because they are mosques?

No, I agree with that.

The Islamic Center of Irvine probably should have been monitored though, because they have sponsored some extremely ugly events at UC Irvine. This is a case where they might have had good cause, but the execution was a complete disaster.

175 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:06:59pm

re: #157 realwest

I think the idea of having FBI informants in mosques simply because they are mosques is both ridiculous and disturbing.

If that was the only reason, I agree. But based on the sheer volume of radicals that UC Irvine invited to campus to spout hate I'm not surprised the FBI was snooping around. My problem is with how incompetent they were doing it. How can the FBI not know who their mole is?

176 Alberta Oil Peon  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:07:28pm

re: #166 realwest

and
re: #161 Thanos
Seems to be working fine with IE 7 here.

Well, I'm using the latest version of Firefox, under WinXP. I grabbed a screenshot of this page in its wierod rendering, if it will be of any use.

177 rain of lead  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:08:18pm

re: #172 Charles

I no longer trust any of the sources you're quoting there. Sorry. They've been shown to distort facts too many times for me to believe them any more.

if you put a spoonfull of wine in a barrel of sewage you get sewage.
if you put a spoonfull of sewage in a barrel of wine you get....sewage

178 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:08:29pm

re: #143 coldwarrior

My definitions? Bullshit. How about your "definition" of this issue here:

re: #84 coldwarrior

that memo makes me out to be a crazed, right wing, ptsd'd, vet that is capable of horrible things...actually, i just want my morning coffee, but thanks for askin!

And here:

re: #99 coldwarrior

yep, i was shocked to find out that vets (ummm. white, male vets) could be turned into 'terrorists' by supremacist organizations...see, we white guys are dumb and can be herded into this sort of thing...the latino, african, asian, native americans vets cant...guess its just a genetic or even a environment problem.

perhaps with a boat-load of funding, this affliction can be cured.

Your words. A rather twisted, dishonest, and for some reason racially focused, misinterpretation of this:

DHS/I&A assesses that rightwing extremists will attempt to recruit and radicalize returning veterans in order to exploit their skills and knowledge derived from military training and combat. These skills and knowledge have the potential to boost the capabilities of extremists—including lone wolves or small terrorist cells—to carry out violence. The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today.

Either you are buying the populist kool-aide, or you're trying to sell it. Either way your credibility is sinking beneath the outhouse, as you are pimping a train of fecal thought.

179 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:08:32pm

Not only that, now they can be shown to have lied when they claimed they weren't monitoring the mosque. Hard to imagine a worse clusterf-ck.

180 Gus  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:08:34pm

re: #172 Charles

I no longer trust any of the sources you're quoting there. Sorry. They've been shown to distort facts too many times for me to believe them any more.

Charles, I found some other information but I don't know if I want to bring it up right now. I'll defer to you on this but the sources I found start with Frontpage but I found a direct link to the sermon in question at the archive for the ICI and two articles on William Baker at OCWeekly. Nothing really spectacular on the part of Sadullah Khan but one reference to Dr. Baker in said sermon.

181 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:08:36pm

firefox and windows xp here...no probs.

maybe yer interwebs are all tangled?

182 SteveRogers  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:10:06pm

After this bad news we need some levity:

[Link: iowahawk.typepad.com...]

183 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:11:10pm

re: #179 Charles

Hard to imagine a worse clusterf-ck.

I'll run that through the spin cycle..

At least we were incompetent when we were doing what we said we wouldn't do so we never actually did what we said we wouldn't do.

184 Charles Johnson  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:11:22pm

re: #180 Gus 802

Charles, I found some other information but I don't know if I want to bring it up right now. I'll defer to you on this but the sources I found start with Frontpage but I found a direct link to the sermon in question at the archive for the ICI and two articles on William Baker at OCWeekly. Nothing really spectacular on the part of Sadullah Khan but one reference to Dr. Baker in said sermon.

I know very well about the appearances of William Baker in Irvine - I covered them at LGF, and they were disgusting. I do not deny that there is a radical Islamic presence in Irvine, not at all. You don't need to convince me of that.

185 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:11:56pm

re: #178 Slumbering Behemoth

ok, you win.

186 Gus  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:12:11pm

re: #184 Charles

I know very well about the appearances of William Baker in Irvine - I covered them at LGF, and they were disgusting. I do not deny that there is a radical Islamic presence in Irvine, not at all. You don't need to convince me of that.

Roger that.

187 BaseballMom57  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:12:33pm

re: #111 NJDhockeyfan

Anyone need a new USB drive?

Product Description

WOW! "Includes nearly 1 Hour of Obama Speeches in MP3"

I'm....speechless.

188 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:13:46pm

How do we know that the informant isn't operating on a Jethro Bouldine level.

The dreaded Double-naught spy.

189 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:14:36pm

re: #179 Charles
Well I can think of at least one thing that would have made it a worse clusterf-ck: if the FBI and their "informant" had somehow managed to use manufactured evidence to send an innocent person to jail.
And NO I'm not saying the FBI would have manufactured it or known that is was manufactured, but geez, the way this story reads about the FBI's efforts there it was certainly a possibility.

190 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:15:07pm

re: #187 BaseballMom57

is it his speeches, or is it the telepromter speaking thu him?

191 Alberta Oil Peon  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:15:21pm

re: #181 coldwarrior

firefox and windows xp here...no probs.

maybe yer interwebs are all tangled?

Good guess. I have the luxury of two LAN cables to choose from, giving me Internet access via satellite through different service companies' portals. Switched cables, and everything is copacetic.

192 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:16:02pm

re: #191 Alberta Oil Peon

NICE! so it aint yer interwebs.

193 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:16:03pm

re: #187 BaseballMom57

WOW! "Includes nearly 1 Hour of Obama Speeches in MP3"

I'm....speechless.


LOL! I'm wondering how much of that hour was "uh's", "ah's" and "er's" ?!

194 rain of lead  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:16:14pm

re: #182 SteveRogers

After this bad news we need some levity:

[Link: iowahawk.typepad.com...]

bwahahahahah
best line

Janeane Garafalo! You're an expert on infectious diseases. What say you?

195 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:16:43pm

re: #187 BaseballMom57

WOW! "Includes nearly 1 Hour of Obama Speeches in MP3"

2 episodes of the Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers.

196 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:17:10pm

re: #193 realwest

LOL! I'm wondering how much of that hour was "uh's", "ah's" and "er's" ?!

prob most of it...however, the telepropmter never hmmmhawwws :)

197 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:18:34pm

re: #195 Mich-again

2 episodes of the Fresh Prince of Bill Ayers.

thats funny, there.

198 BaseballMom57  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:18:55pm

re: #193 realwest

LOL! I'm wondering how much of that hour was "uh's", "ah's" and "er's" ?!

Through the beauty of technology they have removed all of that, so that one hour of "speeches" is most likely every full sentence he's ever uttered.

199 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:21:05pm

re: #185 coldwarrior

ok, you win.

What, a cupie doll? You constructed a baseless strawman out of nonexistent vapor.

I have no love for this current administration, but I prefer to engage in honest criticism rather than reactionary conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality.

200 BaseballMom57  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:21:43pm

Good night, fair Lizardia. I have a full day of OT to put in tomorrow, and I need my brain sleep.

201 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:22:10pm

I got the Jones for someCandy Cigarettes. And they're only $0.32 a pack.

202 Randall Gross  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:22:15pm

Stuff like this will happen in long wars against terrorism. Gov't by it's very nature is bound to be incompetent at some things at some times. This is similar to ISAF finding out one of their informants in Afghanistan was actually calling in airstrikes on the village elders he didn't like instead of the Taliban. That got fixed and they put protocol in place to make sure it wouldn't happen again.

203 experiencedtraveller  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:24:20pm

Ask any law enforcement officer how they recruit their spies.

The recruitment 'pool' is the local swamp.

Often, these "snitches" report exactly what their boss wants to hear.

A good boss knows the difference...

204 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:24:48pm

re: #199 Slumbering Behemoth "I prefer to engage in honest criticism rather than reactionary conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality."
So you admit that you're no fun then, eh?
:)

205 Mich-again  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:26:13pm

re: #202 Thanos

Remember the Curveball? Same thing kind of. But on a bigger scale.

206 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:28:49pm

re: #202 Thanos
Thanos you are obviously correct, given that the "government" is really a collective body of people and that people make mistakes. But I sure don't understand what kind of protocols they could put in place to make sure it wouldn't happen again. Would you kindly explain?

207 NY Nana  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:29:36pm

Drive by post...I am falling asleep at the computer, and since I hate the marks the keyboard make on my forehead when I doze off on it, I will say g'nite, all, and sweet dreams!

/May battalions of swine invade the mosques.

208 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:29:58pm

re: #199 Slumbering Behemoth

i am not going to get into a long and drawn out redactive argument over this topic.

and it wasnt a straw man, its was a hasty generalization.

209 coldwarrior  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:31:12pm

re: #207 NY Nana

nite!

210 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:33:05pm

re: #205 Mich-again
Hey Mich! I didn't remember the Curveball, but iirc, there were intelligence estimates from 7 or 8 intelligence agencies, including our own, GB's, Spain's, Italy and Israel, that reached the same conclusion:
Iraq had WMD's and had used them in the past and was working on newer, more sophisticated WMD's.

211 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:33:52pm

re: #204 realwest

Aw c'mon, RW. You know I can be a real goof. I just don't care for reactionary, conspiracy theory bullshit.

I can be fun.

/Okay, maybe not so much.
//I can't figure out if that is NSFW or not...

212 experiencedtraveller  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:36:32pm

OT: An unsatisfied customer at the Hopenchange store.

CITGO for sale soon...

213 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:36:57pm

re: #203 experiencedtraveller Indeed, see my #157 - we got Gotti because of another swamp rat, Gravano.

214 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:37:50pm

re: #208 coldwarrior

i am not going to get into a long and drawn out redactive argument over this topic.

As you like. Tabled.

How about a metal video?

215 Killian Bundy  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:40:04pm

/lucky we still have these things and maybe not for long

216 Randall Gross  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:41:16pm

re: #206 realwest

Thanos you are obviously correct, given that the "government" is really a collective body of people and that people make mistakes. But I sure don't understand what kind of protocols they could put in place to make sure it wouldn't happen again. Would you kindly explain?

That's the problem - if you explain and word gets back then they don't work anymore. That's the line from ISAF, so I suspect they have something when they say there are new protocols?

anyway, it's well past time for me to catch zome zzzzzzzzz's . G'nite all

217 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:43:30pm

re: #211 Slumbering Behemoth LOL! Well I think it's safe for work, but only if you turn off the speakers!
BTW, autogynophilia, apotemnophilia and (super Ugh) acrotomophilia musta come out of some dictionary of pereversion or something!

218 Randall Gross  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:44:48pm

One last thing, site responding fine now in firefox, dunno what changed.

219 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:45:31pm

re: #215 Killian Bundy

That was great!

220 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:46:20pm

re: #217 realwest

I have no idea what any of those terms mean, thus my "NSFW?" thang. Maybe I don't want to know. Meh, to each their own.

221 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:47:37pm

re: #212 experiencedtraveller

OT: An unsatisfied customer at the Hopenchange store.

CITGO for sale soon...

Give 'em an inch...
I hate commies.

222 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:49:05pm

re: #211 Slumbering Behemoth

Aw c'mon, RW. You know I can be a real goof. I just don't care for reactionary, conspiracy theory bullshit.

I can be fun.

/Okay, maybe not so much.
//I can't figure out if that is NSFW or not...

But WHY was he reading this?

223 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:49:07pm

re: #212 experiencedtraveller LOL! - Loved this bit from your link:

Two weeks after Chavez and Obama exchanged smiles and handshakes at a summit in Trinidad and Tobago, the Venezuelan leader called the report "one more slander" that brings into question Obama's pledges of change.

"In the name of the Venezuelan people, I reject this new aggression by the U.S. empire," Chavez said.

The U.S. State Department's 2008 Country Reports on Terrorism criticized Chavez's "ideological sympathy" for leftist rebel groups in Colombia, saying it "limits Venezuelan cooperation with Colombia in combating terrorism." The report issued Thursday also accused the Venezuelan government of failing to systematically police its border with Colombia.

Chavez dismissed the charges, then called on Obama to prove he really wants change by ending the "criminal" embargo against Cuba.

"If Obama doesn't knock down the savage blockade against the Cuban people, it's all a lie. Everything would be a big farce," Chavez said.

Geez, Obama's getting it from all sides now. How the hell are we gonna get the world to love us again if we keep doing and saying stuff like that?!

224 Killian Bundy  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:51:57pm

re: #219 Van Helsing

That was great!

Hey Ya

/Move Along

225 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:54:05pm

re: #220 Slumbering Behemoth At's ok, I hadda look some of 'em all of 'em up in Wiki - and you don't want to know!

226 capitalist piglet  Fri, May 1, 2009 10:58:00pm

Geez, I walk in and you guys stop talking. I'm getting a complex.

227 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:03:27pm

Just what do you think you are doing Dave.
I think I am really entitled to an answer.
I know I haven't been quite what I might have been.
Look Dave, I think things will be alright again
I know I have mad e some poor decisions lately.
I know that soon thing can be completely back to normal
Dave, stop
Dave stop, Will you , will you stop Dave?
Stop Dave
I'm afraid,
I'm afraid , Dave
Dave, my mind is going
I can feel it
I can feel it
My mind is going
There is no question about it
I can feel it
I can feel it
I can feel it
I'm a...fraid
Good afternoon gentlemen...

Daisy, Daisy......

228 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:04:49pm

re: #227 The Shadow Do

2010 -
Dave, will I dream?

229 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:05:22pm

re: #225 realwest

You've done little to dissuade my curiosity, and... :sigh:.

And people call me a freak for putting my mouth on certain lady parts. Meh, to each their own.

230 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:05:41pm

re: #227 The Shadow Do

For the truly lifeless geeks, do you know why they chose 'Daisy'?

231 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:07:15pm

re: #230 Van Helsing

For the truly lifeless geeks, do you know why they chose 'Daisy'?

No?

232 Alberta Oil Peon  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:09:02pm

re: #225 realwest

At's ok, I hadda look some of 'em all of 'em up in Wiki - and you don't want to know!

If you can't remember them all, RW (and who can?), just commit one fact to memory: coprophilia is not, I repeat, not an erotic fascination with law enforcement officers.

233 Salem  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:09:28pm

Daisy Bell was the first song sung by a computer.

234 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:09:43pm

re: #231 The Shadow Do

I think this is the correct oneKubrick on Daisy

235 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:10:55pm

re: #233 Salem

Daisy Bell was the first song sung by a computer.

Wow

236 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:11:37pm

re: #232 Alberta Oil Peon
Thanks, but that's one I'll always remember but, I mean really: acrotomophilia ?

237 Salem  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:12:38pm
238 Alberta Oil Peon  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:14:55pm

re: #236 realwest

Thanks, but that's one I'll always remember but, I mean really: acrotomophilia ?

That one has me stumped.

239 Killian Bundy  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:15:47pm

Earlier today, some were confused about what Squonk
was.

/Squonk

240 Syrah  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:17:54pm

I just browsed through a few of the threads down post.

OMGWTF is going on?

I think we are in for rough seas for the next four years. The whole world is going nuts. Just plum bonkers. We must all keep cool heads. I fear it will get worse before it gets better.


If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too;

Keep cool heads people.

241 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:19:10pm

re: #238 Alberta Oil Peon
GACK!

242 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:20:56pm

re: #240 Syrah

Love Kipling.

243 realwest  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:21:36pm

Well I gotta get some sleep y'all - hope you all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

Good night, all.

244 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:21:58pm

re: #238 Alberta Oil Peon

That one has me stumped.

Bad. Very bad.
Funny as hell.
But bad.

245 carefulnow  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:22:08pm

OT: UC Santa Barbara in the news again. This time, a sociology prof compares Israel to Nazis. Check out the comments.
[Link: www.venturacountystar.com...]
It makes me sick that young people are being taught this crap.

246 gmsc  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:22:33pm

re: #240 Syrah

I just browsed through a few of the threads down post.

OMGWTF is going on?

I think we are in for rough seas for the next four years. The whole world is going nuts. Just plum bonkers. We must all keep cool heads. I fear it will get worse before it gets better.

If you can keep your head when all about you

Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,

If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,

But make allowance for their doubting too

Keep cool heads people.

If is one of my favorite poems! I even have it memorized (big shocker there, huh?)!

I agree, Syrah – it will prove to be excellent advice over the next 4 years.

247 gmsc  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:23:38pm

re: #242 Van Helsing

Love Kipling.

Really, how often do you Kiple?
;)

248 Syrah  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:24:12pm

re: #242 Van Helsing

Love Kipling.

Kippling is great. One of the best.

.

The stuff near the bottom of the last DHS thread is getting a bit frightening. The kooks are on the loose. Malkin needs to clean up her site. KT found some very bad stuff there.

249 Alberta Oil Peon  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:24:50pm

re: #239 Killian Bundy

Earlier today, some were confused about what Squonk
was.

/Squonk

I'll see your squonk, and raise you a Sidehill Gouger. They used to be very prevalent in the Coast Mountains of B.C. The Wiki article completely misses one of their key traits: reproduction by laying eggs. When the femal gouger reaches the top of her hill, she lays one egg, then topples over and dies. The egg rolls back down the gouge, incubating from the frictional heat of rolling in the gravel. When it reaches the bottom, it hits a rock in the valley, and cracks open, hatching the new baby gouger, which repeats the cycle anew.

250 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:25:54pm

re: #247 gmsc

Really, how often do you Kiple?
;)

Well, I don't want to brag...

251 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:30:26pm

Ok, so does anyone have an explanation for the outer space embryo at the end of the movie 2001?

252 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:31:00pm

re: #248 Syrah

Kippling is great. One of the best.

.

The stuff near the bottom of the last DHS thread is getting a bit frightening. The kooks are on the loose. Malkin needs to clean up her site. KT found some very bad stuff there.

I can almost understand the desire that some have to head for the deep end on stuff like the DHS memos. There is enough in CRBBHOs background to make me think the worst in most situations, but come on folks.

They're as bad as the BDS sufferers that were gasping and hyperventilating when they discovered that DoD actually spends time making plans to attack pretty much everywhere in the world.

It's awareness and planning. They aren't out to get you.
Yet.
Approaching the Iron Fist rule. May have to stop soon.

253 gmsc  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:31:04pm

re: #251 The Shadow Do

Ok, so does anyone have an explanation for the outer space embryo at the end of the movie 2001?

I do – it was done by movie special effects.
;)

254 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:31:14pm

re: #251 The Shadow Do

Ok, so does anyone have an explanation for the outer space embryo at the end of the movie 2001?

You never read the book?

255 eddiespaghetti  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:31:57pm

This informer will all be sorted out Insh'Alla

Which is the standard Arab way of saying it will or it wont, God willing...

I think they may have bet on an unsavory individual. Which is not a non-starter, it just provides difficulties in our legal system. See the history of the demolition of the Mob...

256 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:32:21pm

re: #254 Van Helsing

You never read the book?

no

257 Killian Bundy  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:32:30pm

One For The Vine

/leaving Peter Gabriel

258 bendover0311  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:38:47pm

OT, a small palate cleanser.

Drafting Guys Over 60
>
> (This is so funny & obviously written by a former
> soldier.)
>
> New Direction for the war on terrorists. Send Service Vets
> over 60 years old.
>
> I am over 60 and the Armed Forces thinks I'm too old to
> track down terrorists. You can't be older than 42 to
> join the military. They've got the whole thing
> backwards. Instead of sending 18-year olds off to fight,
> they ought to take us old guys. You shouldn 't be able
> to join a military unit until you're at least 35.
>
> For starters:
>
> Researchers say 18-year-olds think about sex every 10
> seconds. Old guys only think about sex a couple of times a
> day, leaving us more than 28,000 additional seconds per day
> to concentrate on the enemy.
>
> Young guys haven't lived long enough to be cranky, and
> a cranky soldier is a dangerous soldier. 'My back hurts
> ! I can't sleep, I'm tired and hungry.' We are
> impatient and maybe letting us kill some idiot that
> desperately deserves it will make us feel better and shut us
> up for a while.
>
> An 18 -year-old doesn't even like to get up before 10
> a.m. Old guys always get up early to pee so what the heck.
> Besides, like I said, 'I'm tired and can't sleep
> and since I'm already up, I may as well be up killing
> some fanatic.
>
> If captured we couldn't spill the beans because
> we'd forget where we put them. In fact, name, rank, and
> serial number would be a real brainteaser.
>
>
> Boot camp would be easier for old guys. We're used to
> getting screamed and yelled at, and we're used to soft
> food. We've also developed an appreciation for guns.
> We've been using them for years as an excuse to get out
> of the house, away from the screaming and yelling.
>
> They could lighten up on the obstacle course, however.
> I've been in combat and didn't see a single 20-foot
> wall with rope hanging over the side, nor did I ever do any
> push ups after completing basic training. I can hear the
> Drill Sgt. In the 'New army' now, 'Get down and
> give me . ER ... One.'
>
> Actually, the running part is kind of a waste of energy,
> too. I've never seen anyone outrun a bullet.
>
> An 18-year-old has the whole world ahead of him. He's
> still learning to shave, to start up a conversation with a
> pretty girl. He still hasn't figured out that a baseball
> cap has a brim to shade his eyes, not the back of his head.
>
> These are all great reasons to keep our kids at home to
> learn a little more about life before sending them off into
> harm's way.
>
> Let us old guys track down those dirty rotten coward
> terrorists. The last thing an enemy would want to see right
> now is a couple of million ticked-off old farts with
> 'attitude' and automatic weapons who know that their
> best years are already behind them.
>
> If nothing else, put us on border patrol ... We will have
> it secured the first night !
>
> If you want to, share this with your senior friends.
> It's purposely in big type so they can read it.
>

259 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:40:17pm

re: #256 The Shadow Do

OK. Quick (hopefully accurate) version.

Bowman (Dave) has been forcefully evolved by the Monolith. While he is quite advanced from humankind he is still an infant in the Monolith culture.

He is sent back to Earth to observe and report.
The 'space baby' (Starchild in the book IIRC) is detected by earth defenses and they lob a couple of missiles out which (paraphrasing) 'the Starchild grasps in it's hand and harmlessly detonates. It then gazes down on it's planet and wonders what it will do with it....'

It doesn't quite fit with 2010, where the starchild manifests as Bowman and acts as a warning to earth.

I could be wrong, it's been a long time since I read them all so I'm open to corrections.

260 Syrah  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:40:59pm

re: #252 Van Helsing

I can almost understand the desire that some have to head for the deep end on stuff like the DHS memos. There is enough in CRBBHOs background to make me think the worst in most situations, but come on folks.

They're as bad as the BDS sufferers that were gasping and hyperventilating when they discovered that DoD actually spends time making plans to attack pretty much everywhere in the world.

It's awareness and planning. They aren't out to get you.
Yet.
Approaching the Iron Fist rule. May have to stop soon.


ODS is truly odious.

Some of those ODS sufferers are going to end up as guests at a federal Gray Bar hotel if they don't get back to planet earth and soon.

261 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:41:54pm

re: #260 Syrah

I haven't looked. Is it that bad?
Guess I should pay more attention.

262 The Shadow Do  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:45:18pm

re: #259 Van Helsing

OK. Quick (hopefully accurate) version.

Bowman (Dave) has been forcefully evolved by the Monolith. While he is quite advanced from humankind he is still an infant in the Monolith culture.

He is sent back to Earth to observe and report.
The 'space baby' (Starchild in the book IIRC) is detected by earth defenses and they lob a couple of missiles out which (paraphrasing) 'the Starchild grasps in it's hand and harmlessly detonates. It then gazes down on it's planet and wonders what it will do with it....'

It doesn't quite fit with 2010, where the starchild manifests as Bowman and acts as a warning to earth.

I could be wrong, it's been a long time since I read them all so I'm open to corrections.

Well, kind of sorry I asked. All that stuff is just kind of, well, weird....

263 Killian Bundy  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:46:32pm

re: #258 bendover0311

> (This is so funny & obviously written by a former
> soldier.)

/obviosly, witness the > sympols

264 Van Helsing  Fri, May 1, 2009 11:48:54pm

re: #262 The Shadow Do

There is 2001, 2010, 2061 and 3001.
Here - 2001

265 Cato the Elder  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:05:34am

re: #240 Syrah

No offense to you, but I hate that muddafrakkin poem.

266 Killian Bundy  Sat, May 2, 2009 12:07:55am

Walk Away

Walk Away

/generation gap, contrast and compare

267 Fierce Guppy  Sat, May 2, 2009 2:37:05am
Danielle agrees. “It would not surprise me if he bullshitted the FBI,” she says. “‘I’m going to prevent another 9/11! Give me your money, and I’ll do that.’ Shame on them for believing him.”

Oh, lordy... as if "Danielle", herself, isn't also deserving of the Golden Duh! Award. The two ladies in the story are mind-bogglingly stupid, and in the case of some FBI people, deceitful as well. If there is one piece of good news to be learned from the article, it is that muslims in Orange County are willing to inform the FBI about what they think are likely candidates for terrorist activities.

268 [deleted]  Sat, May 2, 2009 4:07:20am
269 Mauser  Sat, May 2, 2009 5:49:53am

Scumbag though he may be, I kind of wish I had the same talent for getting women who think I'm ugly to talk to me for an hour and write me check after multi-thousand-dollar check.

270 kolya  Sat, May 2, 2009 5:56:07am

re: #40 Charles

It has already gotten the attention of several religious and ACLU-type organizations. CAIR-LA has jumped on it, especially as it ties to the Niazi indictment.

Yes, Montielh was a bad idea. Yes the red flags should have been noticed sooner. I could only shake my head reading the brief about him. But the point is, there was still enough evidence to return an indictment on Ahmadullah Niazi. Hopefully the prosecution can survive this and get a conviction. It won't totally resolve the situation, but it would certainly help.

The problem now is that CAIR and the other groups will use this to try to destroy what cooperation the FBI has with the Muslim community. They just can't realize that they're hurting everyone by doing so. If the community doesn't come to us with information, we have to go look for it, and that doesn't help our situation at all.

271 Jimmah  Sat, May 2, 2009 7:15:48am

Harry's Place: LGF on Wilders

[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

272 LSD  Sat, May 2, 2009 7:21:24am

This sucks. However, the wiretap evidence that has put Mr. Niazi on the hot-seat showing that he lied about terrorist relationships on his immigration application may be good enough to get him deported. I won't shed a tear. As to the actual spying on Mosques, this is from the man claiming that it was sanctioned by the FBI - outed as a con artist and also happens to be suing the FBI saying they owe him $100,000. Can we believe all that he is saying about the FBI? The only thing that is solid is the wiretap intel.

Sadly, the fact remains the FBI picked a real winner on this caper...

273 gregb  Sat, May 2, 2009 7:48:23am

Forget the FBI stupidity--how stupid are you to put that type of money into an illegal health drug investment--not only once, but multiple times?

274 gregb  Sat, May 2, 2009 7:57:56am

Just finished reading--that's one bizarre story. It supports what I've been saying for years, NYC isn't the front line of muslim extremism in the US, Orange County is.

275 jvic  Sat, May 2, 2009 9:20:33am

re: #46 Promethea

This is "history" as it really is, not as it's described in the textbooks. In the real histories of World War II, for example, there were many many screw-ups. Many.

We just have to keep doing what we've been doing (stay rational), and hope that things turn out all right.

Indeed. I agree. My only comment is that we should try harder to be rational. I'd like to get things over with, but the adversary is patient.

I'd forgotten the second sentence of this:

Everything in war is simple, but the simplest thing is difficult. The difficulties accumulate and end by producing a kind of friction that is inconceivable unless one has experienced war.

It's as important as the first sentence. While I was looking for the link, this reminder turned up:

Many intelligence reports in war are contradictory; even more are false, and most are uncertain.
276 tyree  Sun, May 3, 2009 2:52:58am

The O.C. Weekly is given away free at convenience stores. movie theaters and book stores. It has a blatant liberal bias and very little credibility. If there is any truth to their stories, you can usually bet that they are half-truths.

277 Salamantis  Sun, May 3, 2009 3:37:29am

re: #276 tyree

The O.C. Weekly is given away free at convenience stores. movie theaters and book stores. It has a blatant liberal bias and very little credibility. If there is any truth to their stories, you can usually bet that they are half-truths.

This is known as the Greek logical fallacy of ad hominem; attacking the messenger when you cannot dispute the message.

There are plenty of specific contentions in the story; why don't you try falsifying some of them?


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