Islamists Lose Ground in the Middle East

Middle East • Views: 2,495

Joshua Muravchik looks at recent developments that show Islamists Losing Ground in the Middle East.

Are George W. Bush’s “democratization” policies bearing fruit?

The results of Kuwait’s elections last month — in which Islamists were rebuffed and four women were elected to parliament — will likely reinvigorate the movement for greater democracy in the region that has stalled since the hopeful “Arab spring” of 2005. It also puts pressure on the Obama administration to end its deafening silence on democracy promotion.

Although ruled by a hereditary monarch, Kuwait is the most democratic of the Arab countries. The press is relatively free, parliament has real power, and politicians are chosen in legitimate elections. However, Kuwait is a part of the Persian Gulf, where the subordination of women is traditionally most severe. Historically, Kuwait’s political process was for males only. But in 2005 parliament yielded to female activists and approved a bill giving women the right to vote and hold office.

In 2006 and 2008, several women ran for parliament, though none won. The women that captured four of the 50 seats last month weren’t aided by quotas; they won on their own merits. Their success will undoubtedly inspire a new wave of women’s activism in nearby countries.

Almost as significant as the women’s gains were the Islamist losses. The archconservative Salafist Movement’s campaign for a boycott of female candidates obviously fell flat, and the number of seats held by Sunni Islamists fell sharply.

Read the whole thing…

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399 comments
1 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:35:21am

Good News! Yay!

2 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:35:30am

See? Obama has brought democracy to the Middle East!

/HURL!

3 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:35:31am

No doubt Obama will be quiet about this in Egypt

4 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:36:00am
Are George W. Bush’s “democratization” policies bearing fruit?

I sincerely hope so. I just would like Bush to get credit for it.

5 aRedPhishhead  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:36:33am

Bush's fault.

6 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:36:54am

Don't worry. The Bamster will go apologize for these developments.

7 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:37:18am

How soon before FCBBHO takes credit?

8 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:37:21am

re: #1 acwgusa

Good News! Yay!

What the hell does "Million Dollar Man" have against this comment? It is good news.

9 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:37:26am

The election of women to Kuwait's parliament is incredibly encouraging and woefully underreported.

10 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:38:00am

It's wonderful to see that mysogyny is finally losing its foothold in the Middle East.

11 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:38:16am

I'm waiting to see what happens in Lebanon, but I don't think the results there will be as encouraging.

12 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:38:17am

re: #8 Honorary Yooper

What the hell does "Million Dollar Man" have against this comment? It is good news.

Ok, I'll admit to being slow, but what? This IS good news.

13 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:38:18am

re: #8 Honorary Yooper

What the hell does "Million Dollar Man" have against this comment? It is good news.

Did not seem sincere...

14 joo-liz  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:38:43am

I've never heard of this so called "Arab Spring" of 2005... any care to fill me in?

Also, this sounds like good news, but while there are some promising new developments, there have also been plenty of backwards steps in the region.

My feeling is that it's a very ying-yang situation in the Middle East. Democracy gains a bit in one area, and loses a bit in the other. Hopefully I'm wrong.

15 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:38:53am

Obviously "Million Dollar Man" won't tell us why he thinks it's not good news.

16 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:38:58am

re: #13 Million Dollar Man

Did not seem sincere...

You're a tough crowd, Million Dollar Man.

17 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:39:07am

re: #13 Million Dollar Man

Did not seem sincere...

Shove it in a sunless location.

18 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:39:25am

re: #11 Kosh's Shadow

I'm waiting to see what happens in Lebanon, but I don't think the results there will be as encouraging.

As I noted earlier; I heard on NPR news this morning (but haven't seen it in print yet) that Obama stated that he could "imagine" direct talks with Hizballah, as long as they win elections.

Madness.

19 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:39:25am

re: #15 Honorary Yooper

Obviously "Million Dollar Man" won't tell us why he thinks it's not good news.

See #13

20 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:40:20am

re: #19 Million Dollar Man

See #13

I did. Posted before I read yours.

21 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:40:33am

re: #18 Occasional Reader

As I noted earlier; I heard on NPR news this morning (but haven't seen it in print yet) that Obama stated that he could "imagine" direct talks with Hizballah, as long as they win elections.

Madness.

Obama would probably visit them before Israel.
Interesting that on this trip, he's not going to Israel.

22 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:40:45am

re: #7 MandyManners

How soon before FCBBHO takes credit?

I'm sure, in his mind, he already is.

23 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:41:25am

Kuwaiti's, nothing but a bunch of blasphemous infidels.
/

24 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:41:37am

re: #13 Million Dollar Man

Did not seem sincere...

Again, shove it. It was sincere.

25 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:42:04am

OK, people, get it together. My SF Pro-Israel list is descending to the level of "I'm rubber, you're a supporter of Arab terrorism", and now we're bickering about downdings? I rely on you guys for the snappy patter.

26 Russkilitlover  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:42:06am

re: #7 MandyManners

How soon before FCBBHO takes credit?

He won't take credit. He'll pull the rug out from under it pronto.

27 zombie  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:42:06am

re: #9 doppelganglander

The election of women to Kuwait's parliament is incredibly encouraging and woefully underreported.

But it was reported here on LGF! Included was a picture of Kuwaiti "election babes."

(Bigger version here.)

28 Baier  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:42:08am

I don't think Obama really believes our system is superior. Obama believes in cultural relativism. If genital mutilation, oppression of women, instituted policy of genocide, and public execution is part of your culture, Obama is cool with it.

29 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:42:19am

Just as 0bama is giving up on it. By the time 0bama's done, Carter will look like Abraham Lincoln compared to him.

30 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:42:24am

Sooner or later they had to be dragged out of the 7th Century. It was inevitable.

31 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:42:37am
32 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:42:49am

re: #24 acwgusa

Again, shove it. It was sincere.

Yay!

33 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:43:23am

re: #32 Million Dollar Man

Yay!

Yeah, you can DIAF, idiot.

34 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:43:50am

re: #27 zombie

But it was reported here on LGF! Included was a picture of Kuwaiti "election babes."

(Bigger version here.)

The one on the left reminds me of Lisa Bonet.

35 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:43:50am

The al-Sabahs of Kuwait are as liberal as the al-Sauds aren't.

IIRC, the Emir was one of the driving forces behind the institution of suffrage.

36 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:43:57am

re: #18 Occasional Reader

As I noted earlier; I heard on NPR news this morning (but haven't seen it in print yet) that Obama stated that he could "imagine" direct talks with Hizballah, as long as they win elections.

Madness.

His people already have talked with them.
LFG from 10/10.

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:45:00am

re: #28 Baier

I don't think Obama really believes our system is superior. Obama believes in cultural relativism. If genital mutilation, oppression of women, instituted policy of genocide, and public execution is part of your culture, Obama is cool with it.

I'm gonna hate myself for asking this, but on what grounds do you think so? Have his words or political actions implied this more than any previous president's?

38 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:45:18am

re: #30 JohnnyReb

Sooner or later they had to be dragged out of the 7th Century. It was inevitable.

Kuwait was always more "progressive," at least by mideast standards.

39 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:45:21am

Speaking of elections, and closer to home... El Salvador's new president was sworn in yesterday, a hard-left winger and former member of the FMLN guerrillas, the guys our Special Forces were fighting there in the 1980s.

And Hillary Clinton was in attendance at the swearing-in.

40 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:45:45am

re: #18 Occasional Reader

As I noted earlier; I heard on NPR news this morning (but haven't seen it in print yet) that Obama stated that he could "imagine" direct talks with Hizballah, as long as they win elections.

Madness.

Neville Hussein Chamberlain.

41 S'latch  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:45:45am

It appears that this progress occurred before Obama became president. However, I doubt that fact will stop Obama from taking credit for it if he finds an opportunity to do so. Naturally, the media will oblige.

42 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:46:01am

re: #38 Million Dollar Man

Kuwait was always more "progressive," at least by mideast standards.

Precisely.

Women go shopping in jeans.

43 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:46:11am

And just in the nick of time:

Mr Obama has started scrapping that policy in the name of “political realism”, the currently fashionable phrase in Washington. The “political realist” school could also be called the “let them stew in their juices” school. It argues that Arabs, and other Muslims, are not ready for democracy and may not even like it if they encountered it. Rather than trying to shock “traditional societies” out of their sleep of centuries, Western powers, especially America, should try to maintain stability.

In her recent visit to Cairo to prepare for Mr Obama's visit, his Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, made no mention of human rights, democratisation and good governance. Vice-President Biden's visit to Lebanon, where a crucial election is due on June 7, was designed to hammer home a similar message: Mr Obama is more interested in the country's stability than the victory of democratic forces.

The problem is that the status quo in the Middle East was and remains unstable. Sixty years of “political realist” support for the regimes in the region produced five Arab-Israel wars, civil wars in Lebanon and Yemen, military coups d'état in eight Arab countries, the Islamic revolution in Iran, and two wars between US-led international coalitions and Iraq under Saddam Hussein.

Change!

44 humpty dumpty was pushed  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:46:21am

What`s with the "deafening silence on democracy promotion" of the Obama administration thing? Obama has made clear that we should lead by example only. As in, not silent...

"The danger, I think, is when the United States, or any country, thinks that we can simply impose these values on another country with a different history and a different culture," Obama said.

45 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:46:21am

re: #39 Occasional Reader

Speaking of elections, and closer to home... El Salvador's new president was sworn in yesterday, a hard-left winger and former member of the FMLN guerrillas, the guys our Special Forces were fighting there in the 1980s.

And Hillary Clinton was in attendance at the swearing-in.

Damn Yanqui!

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:46:22am

re: #30 JohnnyReb

Sooner or later they had to be dragged out of the 7th Century. It was inevitable.

To fill in the broader picture though, women have held public office in a lot of areas of the Middle East over the past thirty years or so. This is cool, but not unheard of. More unheard of for the oil states, I suppose.

47 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:46:33am

Obama-style Orientalism
US administration’s approach sure to lead to another Mideastern clash

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

48 Ojoe  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:46:36am

All in all, civilization is winning.

49 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:46:37am

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm gonna hate myself for asking this, but on what grounds do you think so? Have his words or political actions implied this more than any previous president's?

There's no evidence Obama is a "cultural relativist," nor that he is "cool" with genocide, public executions, and genital mutilation.

50 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:47:11am

re: #28 Baier

I don't think Obama really believes our system is superior. Obama believes in cultural relativism. If genital mutilation, oppression of women, instituted policy of genocide, and public execution is part of your culture, Obama is cool with it.

Diversity!

51 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:47:22am

re: #13 Million Dollar Man

Did not seem sincere...

musta been the way he said it.

52 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:47:26am

re: #40 Ward Cleaver

Neville Hussein Chamberlain.

Pieces in our time.

53 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:47:42am

re: #48 Ojoe

All in all, civilization is winning.

Yeah, and the game is pretty cool, too!

54 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:47:48am

re: #28 Baier

I don't think Obama really believes our system is superior. Obama believes in cultural relativism. If genital mutilation, oppression of women, instituted policy of genocide, and public execution is part of your culture, Obama is cool with it.

That is a silly remark. You may not agree with his politics, you may not agree with his policies or his diplomatic acumen (or lack of it), but there is no way you can make that remark and back it up with any critical proof.

Sounds like WND, Jones, Hannity and the whole bunch of conservatives nut cases.

55 Baier  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:47:49am

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm gonna hate myself for asking this, but on what grounds do you think so? Have his words or political actions implied this more than any previous president's?

I think it is his actions are evidence to me. He is building better relationships with despots and dictators, and alienating our allies, like Israel, France, and the UK.

56 alegrias  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:47:50am

re: #21 Kosh's Shadow

Obama would probably visit them before Israel.
Interesting that on this trip, he's not going to Israel.

* * * *
Wouldn't be prudent!

I heard on the radio two days ago that Jewish settlers were protesting & accusing Hillary of being racist for telling them Jewish people could not add on to their homes in Israel.

Israeli Jewish settlers apparently said Hillary wouldn't get away with denying Jewish people the right to add on to their homes in New York or New Jersey.

57 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:48:43am

re: #32 Million Dollar Man

Yay!

How is walking the edge today working out for you?
You haven't been around long enough to start downdinging comments you don't deem sincere...Today is not the the day..Trust me

58 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:48:50am

re: #43 Kenneth

And just in the nick of time:


Change!

I blame the British. If they had not up and quit their Empire, none of this would be happening.

59 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:49:04am

OT: I like robots....

60 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:49:08am

re: #51 unrealizedviewpoint

musta been the way he said it.

The `yay' bit was a little suspicious.

61 LC LaWedgie  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:49:11am

After Obama finishes apologizing to the Muslim world, they will hasten a return to the status quo. Simply too much unwarranted hatred of the West and Israel to effect a lasting change.

62 alegrias  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:49:13am

re: #39 Occasional Reader

Speaking of elections, and closer to home... El Salvador's new president was sworn in yesterday, a hard-left winger and former member of the FMLN guerrillas, the guys our Special Forces were fighting there in the 1980s.

And Hillary Clinton was in attendance at the swearing-in.

* * * * *
Si Se Puede~!
Viva La Revolucion Communista!

(just getting back to their college radical roots)

63 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:49:24am

The trouble with Cairo
by Irshad Manji

How will Obama reach out to Muslims while looking over his shoulder at his authoritarian Egyptian hosts?

Barack Obama has speech problems.

True, he delivers a message mellifluously. But even before giving a major address to the Muslim world this Thursday, America's communicator-in-chief sounds confused.

Consider his choice of setting. Cairo, according to White House press secretary Robert Gibbs, “in many ways represents the heart of the Arab world.” Confusion No. 1: Arabs and Muslims are interchangeable.

...Perhaps all will be clear after the speech. Perhaps the alchemy of a silver tongue and sturdy teleprompter will bring into sharp relief the strategy crafted by a shrewd disciple of diplomacy. Perhaps.

64 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:49:25am

re: #31 Iron Fist

"Million Dollar Man" has been sucking the glass dick too much to take as a credible source. Just ignore him.

*Smoking the bong, for those who don't know.

65 Sheepdogess  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:49:32am

OT - here's some bad news. GM (government motors) just sold hummer to the chicoms.

66 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:49:50am

re: #55 Baier

I think it is his actions are evidence to me. He is building better relationships with despots and dictators, and alienating our allies, like Israel, France, and the UK.

I don't see it. You may dislike his diplomacy, but I don't see evidence of any kind of belief in cultural relativism there, except for the kind U.S. foreign policy has always practiced--see the Saudis for the biggest, most obnoxious example of that.

67 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:50:01am

re: #42 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Precisely.

Women go shopping in jeans.

That was my first thoughts when reading this. Any influence we may have had there is a compliment to what is certainly a more "progressive" Muslim country.

68 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:50:22am

Stability is the new black.

69 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:50:31am

Please , please put this on the teleprompter.
Dennis Prager's speech that President Obama should give.
[Link: dennisprager.townhall.com...]

70 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:50:32am

I blame Bush.

Er, wait.

71 zelnaga  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:50:32am

I think it's reasonable that Bush be given credit for the waning violence in Iraq - he advocated a troop surge and the waning violence seems to be the result of that surge.

But giving Bush credit for women being elected to Kuwait's parliament... what did he do that would have helped that? I'm not particularly familiar with his "democratization" policies and as such am not really in a position to evaluate. If someone could enlighten me, that'd be appreciated.

72 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:50:40am

re: #65 Sheepdogess

OT - here's some bad news. GM (government motors) just sold hummer to the chicoms.

Link?

73 Baier  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:50:47am

re: #44 humpty dumpty was pushed

What`s with the "deafening silence on democracy promotion" of the Obama administration thing? Obama has made clear that we should lead by example only. As in, not silent...

"The danger, I think, is when the United States, or any country, thinks that we can simply impose these values on another country with a different history and a different culture," Obama said.

So, even if the current Government is a violent murderous regime, hey, it's cool...that's your culture man...whatever...but, hey, if you're interested, look how we don't kill people without trial in the streets.

74 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:50:51am

re: #57 HoosierHoops

How is walking the edge today working out for you?
You haven't been around long enough to start downdinging comments you don't deem sincere...Today is not the the day..Trust me

Uh oh, is Stinky grumpy?

75 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:50:53am

re: #65 Sheepdogess

OT - here's some bad news. GM (government motors) just sold hummer to the chicoms.

New Hummer IV - with extra melamine!

76 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:51:01am

re: #41 Lawrence Schmerel

It appears that this progress occurred before Obama became president. However, I doubt that fact will stop Obama from taking credit for it if he finds an opportunity to do so. Naturally, the media will oblige.

He needs show how appeasement and Taqiya works, no?

77 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:51:04am

re: #31 Iron Fist

re: #64 Racer X

Please don't blame THE WEED!

78 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:51:14am

re: #60 Million Dollar Man

The `yay' bit was a little suspicious.

You can go right ahead and fuck off.

79 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:51:15am

i'm so glad to see this.
moslem men need to listen to the 51% of their population that they have ground down for too many years.
that kind of oppression can only cause a toxic culture.

also as women gain rights in one moslem country, other women will be empowered to speak up. it will balance their society.
where are women's groups, from around the world, to applaud this development, to acknowledge pres. bush for believing democracy could take hold in the m.e.?

80 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:51:17am

re: #65 Sheepdogess

OT - here's some bad news. GM (government motors) just sold hummer to the chicoms.

Wow.

Source?

81 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:51:41am

Islamists Lose Ground in the Middle East
Gain Ground in Minneapolis/

82 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:51:50am

re: #71 zelnaga

I think it's reasonable that Bush be given credit for the waning violence in Iraq - he advocated a troop surge and the waning violence seems to be the result of that surge.

But giving Bush credit for women being elected to Kuwait's parliament... what did he do that would have helped that? I'm not particularly familiar with his "democratization" policies and as such am not really in a position to evaluate. If someone could enlighten me, that'd be appreciated.

Kuwait was already on a gradual (very gradual) road to liberalization. Bush probably helped it along by keeping the issue on the agenda.

83 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:52:06am

re: #27 zombie

But it was reported here on LGF! Included was a picture of Kuwaiti "election babes."

(Bigger version here.)

Of course. The only reason I know anything that goes on in the world is LGF. I just didn't see it get much play in the MSM beyond the initial reporting.

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:52:07am

re: #63 Kenneth

The trouble with Cairo
by Irshad Manji

How will Obama reach out to Muslims while looking over his shoulder at his authoritarian Egyptian hosts?

I love Irshad!

85 dhg4  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:52:43am

re: #4 Honorary Yooper

I sincerely hope so. I just would like Bush to get credit for it.

Jeff Jacoby has a great interview with Saad Eddin Ibrahim today. (Mr Ibrahim also has an op-ed in the WSJ today.) This is from the end of the Jacoby interview:

Q: What happened to George W. Bush's "freedom foreign policy"?

A: The election of Hamas frightened him. First he called himself a "fellow dissident," but then he backtracked, he weakened. And his successor is not as committed to that agenda - if anything, he wants to distance himself from it.

Q: Do you hold out high hopes for Obama's visit to Egypt?

A: No. I have been burned so many times. I do hope he will withhold his support from the autocrats. At least allow the democrats some space.

Q: How can Americans promote Arab democracy?

A: They can pressure their government to withhold aid from the autocrats. Use your aid to support five things: rule of law, freedom of speech, civil society, gender equality, and minority rights. Those are the ingredients that will make democracy come naturally.

86 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:52:48am

re: #78 acwgusa

You can go right ahead and fuck off.

Acwgusa, either you're trolling or have no idea how to use a /sarc tag.

87 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:52:52am

re: #55 Baier

I think it is his actions are evidence to me. He is building better relationships with despots and dictators, and alienating our allies, like Israel, France, and the UK.

That's no evidence, that's your opinion. Show me statements, show me where Obama has supported genital mutilation. Show us?

88 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:53:01am

re: #63 Kenneth

The trouble with Cairo
by Irshad Manji

How will Obama reach out to Muslims while looking over his shoulder at his authoritarian Egyptian hosts?

... according to White House press secretary Robert Gibbs, “in many ways represents the heart of the Arab world.”

Gibbs must've been reading up on Nasser.
Nasser would've left out "in many ways".

/Egypt is NOT an Arab nation, Egyptians are NOT Arabs

89 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:53:13am

re: #39 Occasional Reader

Speaking of elections, and closer to home... El Salvador's new president was sworn in yesterday, a hard-left winger and former member of the FMLN guerrillas, the guys our Special Forces were fighting there in the 1980s.

Are there any books about our operations in Central America during the 1980s, I mean ones that aren't filled with Seymour Hersch-esque conspiracy theories?

90 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:53:17am
Rendell Drinks The Obama Kool-Aid — Literally

After Obama locked up the nomination, Pennsylvania Gov. and ardent Clinton supporter Ed Rendell got a note from an Obama supporter attached to a can of Kool-Aid telling him to drink up.

So the next day at a Philadephla fundraiser for the Pennsylvania Democratic Party, the ever-demonstrative governor poured it into a glass of water and proclaimed: "Now I feel that Senator Obama is the most wonderful person ever to have lived in the United States of America. The smartest, most sensitive most decent and honorable man. Now I understand what you guys have been feeling for the last six months."

*puke*

91 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:53:38am

re: #65 Sheepdogess

OT - here's some bad news. GM (government motors) just sold hummer to the chicoms.

That's one Chinese automaker I hadn't heard of - Sichuan Tengzhong. I don't think that will do anything for their sales, at least among patriotic Americans. They might as well fold up their tent now.

92 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:53:39am

re: #88 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Gibbs must've been reading up on Nasser.
Nasser would've left out "in many ways".

/Egypt is NOT an Arab nation, Egyptians are NOT Arabs

What are they?

93 humpty dumpty was pushed  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:54:00am

re: #73 Baier

Yup. Path of least resistance and all that.

94 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:54:08am

re: #82 Million Dollar Man

Kuwait was already on a gradual (very gradual) road to liberalization. Bush probably helped it along by keeping the issue on the agenda.

Well, except for that whole invasion by Saddam part.

Do you think before you post?

95 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:54:11am

re: #86 Million Dollar Man

Acwgusa, either you're trolling or have no idea how to use a /sarc tag.

Yeah, I'm going to let a just registered moron with -22 karma call me a troll. You can stick that sarc tag.

96 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:54:16am

re: #89 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Are there any books about our operations in Central America during the 1980s, I mean ones that aren't filled with Seymour Hersch-esque conspiracy theories?

I don't know of any. I consider Predator to be the most authoritative piece on the subject.

//

Lunch.

97 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:54:21am

re: #90 Racer X

*puke*

That's uh...bizarre on so very many levels.

98 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:54:40am
99 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:55:08am

re: #86 Million Dollar Man

You need to hush up right now, hatchling.

100 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:55:08am

I just got an email from Roseanne on behalf of ACORN!

Nuts for Nuts!

101 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:55:13am
re: #94 Racer X

Well, except for that whole invasion by Saddam part.

Do you think before you post?

Which Bush are we talking about?

102 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:55:31am

More evidence that the world is on a slippery slope towards democracy.

103 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:55:34am

Bracing for a flounce.

104 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:55:39am

re: #90 Racer X

The smartest, most sensitive most decent and honorable man

One quick aside; It almost sounds like he was consciously parroting Frank Sinatra in The Manchurian Candidate.

Now, lunch.

105 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:55:49am

re: #102 Jimmah

More evidence that the world is on a slippery slope towards democracy.

Well, except for HERE.

106 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:56:08am

re: #100 Kenneth

I just got an email from Roseanne on behalf of ACORN!

Nuts for Nuts!

Did she grab her ACORNs, and spit?

107 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:56:09am

re: #86 Million Dollar Man

Acwgusa, either you're trolling or have no idea how to use a /sarc tag.

Acwgusa is a troll now? That's 2 strikes for you on this thread...
Keep it up newbie....one more gets you shredded with a new toaster for a consolation prize...

108 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:56:21am

re: #101 Million Dollar Man

Which Bush are we talking about?

Correct.

109 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:56:24am

re: #38 Million Dollar Man

Kuwait was always more "progressive," at least by mideast standards.

I've noted that here, but WTF does it have to do with whether a post appears "sincere" or not?

110 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:56:32am

Apparently, this Million Dollar Man ain't man enough to own up to being wrong.

111 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:56:40am

re: #102 Jimmah

More evidence that the world is on a slippery slope towards democracy.


Was.

The One has on 2 occassions already has assured the various ME dictators that those "failed policies" of the past will not be continued.

112 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:56:44am

Islamists may be losing ground in Kuwait and Egypt (where the crackdowns on the Islamists continue), but the Islamist continue to garner support from the usual suspects in Iran and Syria. Those two odious regimes continue to use terror groups as proxies for their own interests, and the situation is particularly dire in Lebanon and Gaza and West Bank. That bodes poorly for the people of those regions, and for Israel - who remains the target with the big bullseye from the Islamists.

Moderation and ending the misogyny can't come soon enough for the region, and those are good things - even if they are taking far too long. While it can't happen overnight, it is a change for the better. Those changes are also going to get pushback from the Islamists - who will resort to the usual intimidation campaigns and terror to cow the population into submission. Those who stand against the Islamists should be applauded as they are on the front lines here and need to be encouraged to do more.

By the by, the idea of spreading democracy around the world is a fundamentally liberal idea - in the classical sense (and definition of the term). It took the so-called neo-con Bush Adminstration to spread democracy and human freedoms to the region.

Now, what will Obama do? Will he apologize, or will he help nurture these countries and efforts? I hope he does the latter, but if he does the former, it will severely undermine those efforts to moderate the regimes and expand human rights.

113 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:56:50am

re: #88 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Like the new avatar - I have a 3 pack of Navy model airplanes from "The Yatch Club" - A-6, F-8 & A-4.

114 Clemente  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:57:26am

From Muravchik, an observation that applies beyond Kuwait:

If elections produce victory for parties that are not themselves democratic in practice or philosophy, then democracy is at a dead end.
115 wiffersnapper  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:57:33am

Sweet!

116 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:57:35am

re: #72 Nevergiveup

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

117 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:57:36am

Morning all! I hope everyone's having a great day.

On the issue of cultural relativism, I remember a story (paraphrased - guess I could find a link) about a young Royal Navy lieutenant sent to treat with a native king in the South Pacific. During the talks, the king noted that:

"You do understand that in my culture we eat people."

The young lieutenant replied:

"Yes your majesty. But you should know that in my culture we shoot people who eat people."

I believe that ended the practice of cannibalism - at least on that island.

Same here, it seems to me. Democracy and the rule of law, individual freedom, and respect for others is a universal "culture", and superior to many others.

118 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:57:49am

re: #113 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Like the new avatar - I have a 3 pack of Navy model airplanes from "The Yatch Club" - A-6, F-8 & A-4.

You mean the Yacht Club?

119 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:57:50am

re: #109 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I've noted that here, but WTF does it have to do with whether a post appears "sincere" or not?

Nothing. Different subjects completely.

120 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:58:03am
121 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:58:10am

re: #107 HoosierHoops

Acwgusa is a troll now? That's 2 strikes for you on this thread...
Keep it up newbie....one more gets you shredded with a new toaster for a consolation prize...

Does it have a bagel setting?

122 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:58:20am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

My girlfriend says she feels more empathy for robots than she does for humans. In a lot of cases, I agree with her.

123 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:58:52am

re: #101 Million Dollar Man

Which Bush are we talking about?

Look at this back pedaling. Now he's gonna say he was referencing Bush Sr.

124 badger1970  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:59:04am

re: #96 Occasional Reader

With two governors starring in it. How could it not be shown to all classes regarding Central American history? /

125 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:59:11am

re: #122 Jimmah

My girlfriend says she feels more empathy for robots than she does for humans. In a lot of cases, I agree with her.

I feel sad when my roomba drives into a wall. Then I realized I programmed it, and feel worse!

126 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:59:20am
127 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:59:22am

re: #90 Racer X

Rendell was probably aping the Manchurian Candidate line - he's always been a Clintonista, & not that bad of a mayor, now governor.

128 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:59:26am

re: #65 Sheepdogess

OT - here's some bad news. GM (government motors) just sold hummer to the chicoms.

Actually good news. Better for GM to get some cash from the civilian Hummer rather then just shut it down.

129 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:59:35am

re: #123 unrealizedviewpoint

Look at this back pedaling. Now he's gonna say he was referencing Bush Sr.

Um? You do realize Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990, right?

GWB was not president back then.

130 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 9:59:48am

re: #98 Ward Cleaver

Here's the Hummer sale link, BTW.

All of his peers are snickering that he had to pay for a Hummer.

131 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:00:08am
132 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:00:25am

re: #126 Iron Fist

They are offering Hummers 50% off here. I still can't afford one, but it is tempting.

My driveway is too narrow, and there are stone walls on each side.
Besides, I rarely need something that large.

133 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:00:53am

re: #113 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Like the new avatar - I have a 3 pack of Navy model airplanes from "The Yatch Club" - A-6, F-8 & A-4.

Excellent!
My squadron flew the A4-C, then the E.

134 badger1970  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:00:57am

re: #117 subsailor68

I thought that was in reference to India where as the British were told that burning the widow was part of Indian culture and the Birt replied with the line about shooting those who burn widows.

135 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:01:17am

re: #118 Ward Cleaver

You mean the Yacht Club?

PIMF.

136 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:01:41am

re: #134 badger1970

I thought that was in reference to India where as the British were told that burning the widow was part of Indian culture and the Birt replied with the line about shooting those who burn widows.

Actually it was hanging. But same idea.

137 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:01:47am

re: #129 Million Dollar Man

Um? You do realize Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990, right?

GWB was not president back then.

Just read that in your history book?

138 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:01:52am

re: #133 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Excellent!
My squadron flew the A4-C, then the E.

What squadron? I might just have the decals!

139 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:02:00am

re: #65 Sheepdogess

OT - here's some bad news. GM (government motors) just sold hummer to the chicoms.

Here's a question for some of youse guys who follow the auto industry closer than I.

Hummer used to be a military vehicle. It is poorly suited to regular highway travel (sits too high, is way too wide, slow, noisy, sucks gas like...er...uses a lot of gas). Now Ahnuld out in Cali started driving one, other celebs and wannabes piled on, and Hummer went commercial.

Some small sanity or simple market economics led to the Hummer2 and Hummer3, both smaller truck-based vehicles. They ain't really Hummers, or more precisely they're Hummers like a Radio Flyer is a dump truck.

Anyway, where is the military Hummer made now? Does GM put it out, or is that a separate division?

140 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:02:08am
141 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:02:33am

Actually, due to differences in pronunciation, the Chinese thought they were buying Hummer, but pronounced it Hummel during the negotiations.

They were really ticked when a cargo ship full of little carved figures arrived.

142 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:02:35am

So selling out the Chinese is a good thing? How about putting up the White House for sale? Oops. Guess that's already sold.

143 Million Dollar Man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:02:38am

re: #137 unrealizedviewpoint

Just read that in your history book?

I have no idea what your point is.

144 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:02:38am

re: #91 Ward Cleaver

That's one Chinese automaker I hadn't heard of - Sichuan Tengzhong. I don't think that will do anything for their sales, at least among patriotic Americans. They might as well fold up their tent now.

They'll sell like hot cakes in China, they love status cars.

145 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:02:47am

re: #129 Million Dollar Man

Um? You do realize Saddam invaded Kuwait in 1990, right?

GWB was not president back then.

You may just want to lurk awhile.

146 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:02:54am

re: #126 Iron Fist

They are offering Hummers 50% off here. I still can't afford one, but it is tempting.

I though they were $10, same as in town?
/

147 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:02:57am
148 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:03:01am

O/T Update on Military Assassinations in AR
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

149 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:03:10am

re: #120 Iron Fist

Hey, man, check it out.

[Link: cgi.ebay.com...] hawk_W0QQitemZ140324244797QQihZ004QQcategoryZ41182 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Is that not too cool? I'm not totally sold on it. The one I want is the lower one of these.

That isn't happening anytime soon. $760? It'd better fight for me for that price.

Holy Cow..760 bucks for a hatchet? What can you do with that? I wouldn't use it for camping..Too expensive.. LOL
How are you today IF?

150 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:03:23am

re: #98 Ward Cleaver

Here's the Hummer sale link, BTW.

So we sold a car company that is based on a US Military vehicle to the Chinese? Hell why not they got the plans for the F-35 already?

151 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:04:23am
152 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:04:27am

re: #134 badger1970

I thought that was in reference to India where as the British were told that burning the widow was part of Indian culture and the Birt replied with the line about shooting those who burn widows.

Hi badger! Hmm, that could be right. It makes sense. I just remember reading the story as I posted it, but it could be simply a modification to make the same point. (I'll try to find the source I read.)

153 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:04:40am

re: #103 Ward Cleaver

Bracing for a flounce.

my flounce is torn, the duke of earl stepped on it during the waltz.

154 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:04:46am

Is Sharmuta on? If so, please check your email!

155 aggieann  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:04:48am

re: #4 Honorary Yooper

I sincerely hope so. I just would like Bush to get credit for it.

Credit for IMPOSING OUR VALUES on the rest of the world? Surely there's a hotline number I can call to report you to Dear Leader.

/

156 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:05:08am

re: #138 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

What squadron? I might just have the decals!

VA-212

157 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:05:10am

re: #142 kansas

Take the story with a grain of salt. It's possible but it's from a single anonymous source and there are a lot of stories being pushed by the MSM with the intent of making conservatives embarrass themselves by having hysterical flip outs.

158 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:05:24am

re: #150 Nevergiveup

So we sold a car company that is based on a US Military vehicle to the Chinese? Hell why not they got the plans for the F-35 already?

No we did not. The civilian Hummer shares the name a basic shape, and little else.

159 alegrias  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:05:30am

OT
LIVE
Sen. Leahy (D) says it's outrageous Sotomayor has been called a bigot by Republicans...unfair attacks on her....

(Clarence Thomas & Robert Bork rolling their eyes right now)

160 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:05:34am

re: #143 Million Dollar Man

I have no idea what your point is.

High schoolers often have difficulty with this class.

161 kansas  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:05:42am

Mohammed: "Yeah, I did it, but I'm not guilty." Anyone doubt the necessity for military tribunals now? Well other than the fucking Democrats.

162 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:05:44am

re: #153 Eowyn2

my flounce is torn, the duke of earl stepped on it during the waltz.

Shall we have one of our stalwarts step forward to avenge this clumsy insult?

163 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:05:57am

re: #111 Ben Hur

Was.

The One has on 2 occassions already has assured the various ME dictators that those "failed policies" of the past will not be continued.

People say a lot of things in the course of politics, especially Obama. The left have already acknowledged he is not the leftist stooge they had hoped for.

164 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:05:57am

re: #154 Dianna

Is Sharmuta on? If so, please check your email!

If she's not on, should someone try to turn her on?

165 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:06:04am

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

166 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:06:28am

re: #117 subsailor68

Morning all! I hope everyone's having a great day.

On the issue of cultural relativism, I remember a story (paraphrased - guess I could find a link) about a young Royal Navy lieutenant sent to treat with a native king in the South Pacific. During the talks, the king noted that:

"You do understand that in my culture we eat people."

The young lieutenant replied:

"Yes your majesty. But you should know that in my culture we shoot people who eat people."

I believe that ended the practice of cannibalism - at least on that island.

Same here, it seems to me. Democracy and the rule of law, individual freedom, and respect for others is a universal "culture", and superior to many others.

The version I've heard has to do with suttee, and an English officer commenting that it is British tradition to hang men who burn a woman alive. Same basic concept.

Unfortunately, geopolitics often drives nations, including our own, to make buddies with people whose behavior we would not like to be associated with.

167 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:06:31am

re: #161 kansas

Mohammed: "Yeah, I did it, but I'm not guilty." Anyone doubt the necessity for military tribunals now? Well other than the fucking Democrats.

To wit they should reply, "well, we don't believe in being locked up for life, but you will be."

168 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:06:42am

re: #144 avanti

They'll sell like hot cakes in China, they love status cars.

I saw quite a few Hummers in western China and even Tibet.

169 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:06:56am

re: #150 Nevergiveup

So we sold a car company that is based on a US Military vehicle to the Chinese? Hell why not they got the plans for the F-35 already?

They'll be called Hummels now.

/racist!

/do they come with a free figurine?

170 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:06:58am

re: #158 avanti

No we did not. The civilian Hummer shares the name a basic shape, and little else.

Avanti it was tongue in cheek for G-D's sake!

171 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:07am

re: #150 Nevergiveup

So we sold a car company that is based on a US Military vehicle to the Chinese? Hell why not they got the plans for the F-35 already?

I'm not too worried, they were probably knocking them off and selling them anyway, like everything else.

172 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:08am

re: #139 razorbacker

Here's a question for some of youse guys who follow the auto industry closer than I.

Hummer used to be a military vehicle. It is poorly suited to regular highway travel (sits too high, is way too wide, slow, noisy, sucks gas like...er...uses a lot of gas). Now Ahnuld out in Cali started driving one, other celebs and wannabes piled on, and Hummer went commercial.

Some small sanity or simple market economics led to the Hummer2 and Hummer3, both smaller truck-based vehicles. They ain't really Hummers, or more precisely they're Hummers like a Radio Flyer is a dump truck.

Anyway, where is the military Hummer made now? Does GM put it out, or is that a separate division?

Near the old Studebaker plant in Mishawaka In

link...

173 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:11am

re: #157 Killgore Trout

Take the story with a grain of salt. It's possible but it's from a single anonymous source and there are a lot of stories being pushed by the MSM with the intent of making conservatives embarrass themselves by having hysterical flip outs.

Is CNN a reliable source?

174 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:13am

re: #150 Nevergiveup

So we sold a car company that is based on a US Military vehicle to the Chinese? Hell why not they got the plans for the F-35 already?

At least someone will be flying them. re: #139 razorbacker

Anyway, where is the military Hummer made now? Does GM put it out, or is that a separate division?

According to Wiki, they're made by AMC.

175 aggieann  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:19am

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm gonna hate myself for asking this, but on what grounds do you think so? Have his words or political actions implied this more than any previous president's?

Are you SERIOUS?

176 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:25am

re: #164 pre-Boomer Marine brat

If she's not on, should someone try to turn her on?

Only if they do it courteously, and with her happy participation. Otherwise, the person involved is taking his life in his hands. Or keyboard?

177 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:32am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

Thank you.

178 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:45am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

Oh, bless you!

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:50am

re: #125 acwgusa

I feel sad when my roomba drives into a wall. Then I realized I programmed it, and feel worse!

Totally OT: Anyone seen the NCIS Halloween episode where the roomba tries to clean up the crime scene and scares the hell out of DiNozzo?

180 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:07:57am
181 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:08:02am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

Edgar was a total dick...I knew something wasn't right with that boy...

182 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:08:15am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

I miss Edgar. Hi, Edgar, remember me?
/

183 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:08:32am

re: #177 MandyManners

Thank you.

{Mandy}

184 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:08:51am

re: #163 Jimmah

People say a lot of things in the course of politics, especially Obama. The left have already acknowledged he is not the leftist stooge they had hoped for.

It wasn't in the "course of politics"

It was an important and first interview on an Arab Saudi TV channel (essentially an address to the Arab world) and in the Turkish parliment.

It's been in policy action as well - by removing the strings GWB attached to Egyptian aid -that a % of the funds HAD to go to pro-Democracy groups.

185 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:08:52am

re: #173 MandyManners

Their story is based on the same anonymous insider.

186 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:08:53am

re: #156 pre-Boomer Marine brat

VA-212

I'll check, though, oddly enough given the thread's topic, I plan on modeling my A-4 in the Free Kuwaiti colors of 1991.

187 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:08:57am

re: #131 Iron Fist

That means she's falling in love with her vibrator...

:-)

Heh. Not to get too personal but she doesn't have/need one.

188 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:08:57am

re: #150 Nevergiveup

So we sold a car company that is based on a US Military vehicle to the Chinese? Hell why not they got the plans for the F-35 already?

The H2 is based on the GMT800 platform (previous generation Chevy Tahoe), while the H3 is based on the Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon pickups.

189 FabioC.  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:09:02am

Also the Indonesian general election of April saw the Islamist parties losing ground.

But I cannot locate a source right now.

190 Irish Rose  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:09:13am

Good afternoon, lizards.
Damn, I missed the morning DT again.

191 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:09:17am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

Who would have thought someone named Edgar would have a puppet?

192 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:09:32am

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

I miss Edgar. Hi, Edgar, remember me?
/

IRRC, he got his ass stomped the first time.

193 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:09:48am
194 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:09:58am

re: #174 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

According to Wiki, they're made by AMC.

It's AM General, which used to be part of AMC.

195 John Neverbend  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:10:10am

re: #18 Occasional Reader

As I noted earlier; I heard on NPR news this morning (but haven't seen it in print yet) that Obama stated that he could "imagine" direct talks with Hizballah, as long as they win elections.

Madness.

As long as it stays in his imagination and not in reality, I can just about live with it.

196 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:10:13am

re: #142 kansas

So selling out the Chinese is a good thing? How about putting up the White House for sale? Oops. Guess that's already sold.

I am not big on conspiracy stuff, but from my read on GM, Hummer was one of the profitable units they had. Why the heck would you sell one of the things that you actually make a profit on? And double secret probation stuff, why the heck sell it to someone in China when the hold about 2 gazillion dollars of our debt? Come on seriously you can't make this stuff up.

197 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:10:16am

re: #176 Dianna

Only if they do it courteously, and with her happy participation. Otherwise, the person involved is taking his life in his hands. Or keyboard?

Life

/heh

198 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:10:17am

re: #181 HoosierHoops

Edgar was a total dick...I knew something wasn't right with that boy...

What's he gonna' do for the rest of the summer break? Clean out his mom's basement.

199 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:10:34am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

Hey Edgar, Charles says "Nevermore."

200 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:10:36am

re: #170 Nevergiveup

Avanti it was tongue in cheek for G-D's sake!

Sorry, I missed the sarcasm and I'll bet we'll hear just that from some.

201 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:10:40am

re: #193 Iron Fist

I only vaugly remember the name. Maybe we need troll cards to keep them straight :-)

You could probably just go to the stalkerblog and find the names there...

202 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:10:40am

re: #180 Iron Fist

Actually, I'm sick as a dog. I have, yet again, an infection in my lungs. That's the kind of shit that damn near killed me back in the spring. I've never really gotten over it, just better at times, and worse at times. I called in to work today, which is a day's pay out of pocket I can't really afford to spend, but I am too sick to go in.

Other than that, things are great :-)

Thanks for asking.

Has your doctor prescribed Advair? It saved me. I hate steroids, but they help, immensely.

203 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:10:44am

Ok, Bloomberg has checked more sources....

General Motors Corp. plans to sell its Hummer brand of sport-utility vehicles to Sichuan Tengzhong Heavy Industrial Machinery Co. Ltd., a Chinese equipment maker, according to five people familiar with the situation.
204 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:10:55am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

For such a new one he sure knew a lot about sarc tags & karma points didn't he?

205 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:11:10am

re: #201 MrSilverDragon

You could probably just go to the stalkerblog and find the names there...

But I recommend a good long hot shower afterwards.

206 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:11:10am

re: #186 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I'll check, though, oddly enough given the thread's topic, I plan on modeling my A-4 in the Free Kuwaiti colors of 1991.

Sounds good

207 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:11:27am

re: #181 HoosierHoops

Well, he was a bug.

208 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:11:28am

re: #185 Killgore Trout

Their story is based on the same anonymous insider.

I reckon I'll wait for confirmation before I start foaming at my mouth.

209 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:11:37am

re: #184 Ben Hur

It was an important and first interview on an Arab Saudi TV channel (essentially an address to the Arab world) and in the Turkish parliment.

If that isn't politics, what is?

Aside from that, we'll see.

210 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:11:48am

re: #165 Charles

Oh man, Edgar was a nasty troll. Good riddance.

(scraping shoe...)

211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:11:51am

re: #202 Dianna

Are you sure he is not a professional baseball player? Hmmm? You could get him in trouble.

212 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:11:51am

re: #191 CyanSnowHawk

Who would have thought someone named Edgar would WOOD have a puppet?

FTFY

213 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:12:07am

re: #208 MandyManners

I reckon I'll wait for confirmation before I start foaming at my mouth.

Foam away. It looks like the story checks out.

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:12:09am

re: #193 Iron Fist

I only vaugly remember the name. Maybe we need troll cards to keep them straight :-)

A deck of cards? Hey, actually, we should have a deck for regular lizards, and then a Troll Deck. Anyone do graphics?

215 Irish Rose  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:12:15am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

Get a life, moron.

216 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:12:17am

re: #198 MandyManners

What's he gonna' do for the rest of the summer break? Clean out his mom's basement.

Why do people come back after they are not wanted here? What is the end game?
Good Job Charles...

217 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:12:21am

re: #209 Jimmah

If that isn't politics, what is?

Aside from that, we'll see.

When a president speaks publicly, as president, it's policy, IMO.

218 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:12:32am

DETROIT — Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday its U.S. sales fell 24 percent in May from a year ago, but sales rose 20 percent from April as the automaker continues to gain market share from its competitors now under bankruptcy protection.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

219 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:12:48am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

If he'd still been here after Obamanomics took hold, he'd have to change his nic to "Twenty-Six Thousand Dollar Man".

/adjusted for inflation

220 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:12:55am

re: #196 JohnnyReb

I am not big on conspiracy stuff, but from my read on GM, Hummer was one of the profitable units they had.

WAS, is the operative word, sales have tanked.

221 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:13:01am

re: #10 MrSilverDragon

It's wonderful to see that mysogyny is finally losing its foothold in the Middle East.

maybe

222 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:13:06am

For Edgar...

223 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:13:17am

re: #213 Killgore Trout

Foam away. It looks like the story checks out.

Can I lather, too?

224 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:13:28am

re: #216 HoosierHoops

Why do people come back after they are not wanted here? What is the end game?
Good Job Charles...

Punks?

225 badger1970  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:13:41am

re: #152 subsailor68

No problem. It's one of those quotes that when you hear it it sticks but can't ever remember who, what and where it was said.

226 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:13:47am

re: #205 MrSilverDragon

Please, stop, and leave it all alone. It's just so sad.

227 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:13:57am

re: #104 Occasional Reader

One quick aside; It almost sounds like he was consciously parroting Frank Sinatra in The Manchurian Candidate.

Why don't you pass the time by playing a little solataire?

228 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:14:06am

Obama should not address "Islam" in a political speach.

He should address specific nation states.

229 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:14:07am

re: #193 Iron Fist

I only vaugly remember the name. Maybe we need troll cards to keep them straight :-)

Could we have a designated panel of judges too?
Olympic style?
MMM was nowhere near as good as Edgar.

230 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:14:16am

re: #223 MandyManners

Go for it.

231 Ziggy Standard  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:14:40am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

"We have separation"

232 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:14:43am

re: #211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Are you sure he is not a professional baseball player? Hmmm? You could get him in trouble.

I've met Iron Fist in person. I'd rather he took steroids and stuck around.

233 Gang of One  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:14:44am

re: #216 HoosierHoops

Why do people come back after they are not wanted here? What is the end game?
Good Job Charles...

I'd say it's some kind of weird combination of vengeance, attention-seeking, arrogance [I'm smarter than all of you, especially Charles] and just plain LLL mean-spiritedness.

234 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:14:48am

re: #172 avanti

Near the old Studebaker plant in Mishawaka In

link...

No, that's not my question. I don't care where the civilian versions are made. Send 'em to China, for all I care (strictly personal, I wasn't going to buy one anyways).

But I am going to help buy a load of HUMVEEs for the military. Am I going to be sending my cash to China, to chase after my electronic's cash and my Wally-World cash and my Lowes cash and my Home Depot cash and my Target cash and my ...well you see where I'm going here.

235 Rednek  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:15:01am

Time to PANIC!

The fire and brimstone sermons of old have been replaced buy this eco-panic.

236 brookly red  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:15:10am

re: #218 Nevergiveup

DETROIT — Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday its U.S. sales fell 24 percent in May from a year ago, but sales rose 20 percent from April as the automaker continues to gain market share from its competitors now under bankruptcy protection.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

buy & hold...

237 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:15:17am

re: #220 avanti

WAS, is the operative word, sales have tanked.


Nope they actually made a profit in 2008. An eight figure profit. And sales remain reasonable.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

238 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:15:28am

re: #199 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Hey Edgar, Charles says "Nevermore."

Poe. ... Really Poe.
(Do better next time.)

239 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:15:34am

re: #165 Charles

'Million Dollar Man' was a sock puppet for the previously banned troll 'Edgar', and now he's out of here again.

I am not surprised at this turn of events. MDM knew too intimately the conventions of lgf etiquette and usage, such as sarc tags, to be a true hatchling.

240 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:15:41am

re: #228 experiencedtraveller

Obama should not address "Islam" in a political speach.

He should address specific nation states.

Amir Taheri agrees with you...

Barack Obama is blind to his blunders over Islam

Rich in symbolism, Obama's “address to Islam” is also full of political implications. Obama is the first major Western leader, after Bonaparte, to address Islam as a single bloc, thus adopting the traditional Islamic narrative of dividing the world according to religious beliefs. This ignores the rich and conflict-ridden diversity of the 57 Muslim-majority nations and fosters the illusion, peddled by people such as Osama bin Laden and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, that Islam is one and indivisible and should, one day, unite under a caliphate.

241 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:15:43am

re: #226 Dianna

Please, stop, and leave it all alone. It's just so sad.

Will do.

242 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:15:54am

re: #222 Kenneth

For Edgar...


I have a shorter one.
WARNING: NOT FOR EPILEPTICS.

Hat tip to Charles.

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:15:54am

re: #216 HoosierHoops

Why do people come back after they are not wanted here? What is the end game?
Good Job Charles...

I don't entirely understand it. This is a nice site, but if I annoyed people enough to get kicked out, I...well, I admit it, I might try to come back as someone else.

But the repeated attempts, the dramatic flame-outs...it's not THAT cool a site that if you don't get along with the people here you should dedicate a lot of time out of your life to bothering them.

244 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:16:09am

re: #218 Nevergiveup

DETROIT — Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday its U.S. sales fell 24 percent in May from a year ago, but sales rose 20 percent from April as the automaker continues to gain market share from its competitors now under bankruptcy protection.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I wish I could afford a new car. I'd trade my old Explorer in for a new one, just to be good to Ford.

245 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:16:17am

re: #223 MandyManners

Can I lather, too?

Do the whole angry shower thing.

246 gymmom  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:16:36am

re: #222 Kenneth

I love Edgar Winter! My first concert - my whole family went. Had to ask my dad why they were sharing cigarettes!

247 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:16:44am

re: #240 Kenneth

Obama and his peeps don't have a clue.

248 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:16:45am

re: #179 SanFranciscoZionist

Totally OT: Anyone seen the NCIS Halloween episode where the roomba tries to clean up the crime scene and scares the hell out of DiNozzo?

No, but given the way my dogs react to vacuum cleaners, I'm not getting a Roomba. They'd tear it to shreds. We have to crate them when we take the vacuum cleaner out, and even bumping into it in the closet sets them off.

249 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:16:51am

re: #234 razorbacker

No, that's not my question. I don't care where the civilian versions are made. Send 'em to China, for all I care (strictly personal, I wasn't going to buy one anyways).

But I am going to help buy a load of HUMVEEs for the military. Am I going to be sending my cash to China, to chase after my electronic's cash and my Wally-World cash and my Lowes cash and my Home Depot cash and my Target cash and my ...well you see where I'm going here.


Don't worry AM General builds the HUMVEE.

250 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:17:05am

re: #223 MandyManners

Can I lather, too?

CAN WE WATCH?!

251 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:17:46am

re: #218 Nevergiveup

DETROIT — Ford Motor Co. said Tuesday its U.S. sales fell 24 percent in May from a year ago, but sales rose 20 percent from April as the automaker continues to gain market share from its competitors now under bankruptcy protection.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I wonder how long it will be before 0bama tries to knock Ford down a peg? After all, the government hates competition. Ford is already worried about having a level playing field:

FORD STATEMENT ON GM BANKRUPTCY FILING

DEARBORN, Mich., June 1, 2009 – Today's announcement that GM is filing for Chapter 11 bankruptcy is another important development during this unprecedented period for the auto industry and the global economy.

The Ford team continues to monitor the industry environment and plan for all contingencies to ensure our transformation plan remains on track. At this time, we do not expect any major disruptions to our operations as a result of today's news.

We share President Obama's hope that GM's bankruptcy will be controlled and orderly, and we continue to believe it is important that our governmental leaders and the U.S. Automotive Task Force remain focused on the stability of the supply chain and on ensuring that a healthy U.S. auto industry emerges from this difficult economic period. We look forward to working with the Obama administration to ensure that the government's majority ownership of GM will not change the industry's competitive dynamics and that a level playing field will be maintained.

Ford remains absolutely committed to continuing to make progress on our transformation plan without accessing emergency taxpayer assistance from the U.S. government. We have been executing our plan for several years and now gaining market share and new customers with an unprecedented number of new high-quality, fuel-efficient vehicles, such the new Ford Fusion, F-150, Lincoln MKS and Lincoln MKZ. Coming soon are the highly acclaimed Ford Taurus, Lincoln MKT and Transit Connect.

252 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:18:15am

re: #196 JohnnyReb

I am not big on conspiracy stuff, but from my read on GM, Hummer was one of the profitable units they had. Why the heck would you sell one of the things that you actually make a profit on? And double secret probation stuff, why the heck sell it to someone in China when the hold about 2 gazillion dollars of our debt? Come on seriously you can't make this stuff up.

It doesn't fit Obama's plans for the cars he thinks we should have.

253 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:18:17am

Maybe, maybe not.

This ain't the magna carta and king john, y'know.

I am reticent, oh yes, reticent!
I could not say,
I could not say,
at this time!

/hermione gingold

254 Dave the.....  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:18:19am

Yesterday Charles gave equal weight to the two wacko murderers (abortion doctor killer and military killer). My morning paper had two large articles related to abortion killer. One national wire service, one with a local angle. One two paragraph small note on the military killer....buried in the misc news page.

Now, not saying editors need to do a word count so all stories have equal weight, but a ratio of...probably 25 to 1 in column inches shows where they are coming from. Is the Kansas killing 25 times more of a news story than an anti-military killer doing a driveby in war time?

255 Gang of One  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:18:20am

re: #250 pre-Boomer Marine brat

CAN WE WATCH?!

**SMACK**

Took care of it for ya, Mandy.
// just kidding, Boomer :>)

256 Racer X  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:18:27am

re: #223 MandyManners

Can I lather, too?

Link?

257 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:18:37am

,,, OT ,,,,
Pending Home Sales See Biggest Rise in More Than Seven Years- AP
Pending U.S. home sales in April posted the biggest monthly jump in nearly eight years, a sign that home sales are finally coming to life after a long and painful slump.

[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

As many if not all economic indicators keep turnimg upwards, can we now PLEASE start contacting our congesscritters to put a HALT on the "stimulus" spending not yet in the pipeline? Seems as if the economy is self stimulated without the 95% + of the monies not scheduled to be spent until a year from now and beyond

258 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:19:02am

re: #234 razorbacker

No, that's not my question. I don't care where the civilian versions are made. Send 'em to China, for all I care (strictly personal, I wasn't going to buy one anyways).

But I am going to help buy a load of HUMVEEs for the military. Am I going to be sending my cash to China, to chase after my electronic's cash and my Wally-World cash and my Lowes cash and my Home Depot cash and my Target cash and my ...well you see where I'm going here.

The military plant is in Mishawaka too, and owned by AM general and not part of the sale.

259 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:19:32am

re: #238 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Poe. ... Really Poe.
(Do better next time.)

Are you trying to Usher in a new pun thread?

260 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:19:34am

You guys....

261 brookly red  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:19:47am

re: #247 Nevergiveup

Obama and his peeps don't have a clue.

I fear that they do...

262 Mithrax  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:20:10am

re: #260 MandyManners

You guys....

Hey, some of us are just lurking, don't lump us in too!

263 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:20:19am

re: #259 Kosh's Shadow

Are you trying to Usher in a new pun thread?

I'm just a raven maniac.

264 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:20:20am

re: #257 sattv4u2

,,, OT ,,,,
Pending Home Sales See Biggest Rise in More Than Seven Years- AP
Pending U.S. home sales in April posted the biggest monthly jump in nearly eight years, a sign that home sales are finally coming to life after a long and painful slump.

[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

As many if not all economic indicators keep turnimg upwards, can we now PLEASE start contacting our congesscritters to put a HALT on the "stimulus" spending not yet in the pipeline? Seems as if the economy is self stimulated without the 95% + of the monies not scheduled to be spent until a year from now and beyond

These home sales are most likely the houses that were foreclosed on, and were selling for a song, and are not indicative of true home sales.

265 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:20:20am

I don't understand America's obsession with vacuums. It's as if they are a commodity. jeez. When did it become so damn important... this bigger better faster vacuum craze?

266 Ben Hur  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:20:20am

re: #250 pre-Boomer Marine brat

CAN WE WATCH?!

I wish I was a loofah.

/Captain Stillman

267 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:20:22am
268 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:20:41am

re: #260 MandyManners

You guys....

I think they all need spankings, Mandy.

*pulls up chair*

269 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:20:54am

re: #261 brookly red

I fear that they do...

And which is worse?

270 Rednek  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:21:19am

Smart Power


In a new overture to Iran, the Obama administration has authorized US embassies around the world to invite Iranian officials to Independence Day parties they host on or around July 4th.

A State Department cable sent to all US embassies and consulates late last week said that US diplomats could ask their Iranian counterparts to attend the festivities, which generally feature speeches about American values, fireworks, and, of course, hot dogs and hamburgers.

271 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:21:21am

re: #258 avanti

The military plant is in Mishawaka too, and owned by AM general and not part of the sale.

And the civilian H1 (out of production now) was built by AM General. The only thing the H2 and H3 have in common with the H1 is the Hummer name.

272 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:21:26am

re: #265 unrealizedviewpoint

I don't understand America's obsession with vacuums. It's as if they are a commodity. jeez. When did it become so damn important... this bigger better faster vacuum craze?

I don't know, but I want one of the ones that uses a ball rather than wheels, so the angles are easier to do. In red.

273 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:21:29am

re: #250 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Previously unreleased photo of Mandy washing her car.

274 Gang of One  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:21:32am

re: #268 Noam Sayin'

I think they all need spankings, Mandy.

*pulls up chair*

Gonna put it up on YouTube?

275 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:21:46am

re: #260 MandyManners

You guys....

I would give you a hug, but I'll wait 'til you hang up the towel.

/*diving under the desk*

276 alegrias  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:21:49am

OT

Kim Il Jong's 26 year old son & designated successor, was educated in Switzerland.

I am not comforted by this "progress"--Kim Jong Un could by like the chinless pro-Hezbollah, Iranian stooge Bashir al Assad, opthalomologist trained in England.

277 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:21:59am

re: #247 Nevergiveup

Obama and his peeps don't have a clue.

he is too arrogant to even look at what is going on.
he has an agenda to push and he is committed to it.
even if it is wrong or needs to be adjusted.
he is an ideologue w/ no nuance.
as he tromps around the m.e. even moslem are scratching their beards wondering wtf?

278 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:22:02am

Of course it's legitimate *wink, wink, nudge, nudge*:

Obama says Iran's energy concerns legitimate
By NANCY ZUCKERBROD
The Associated Press
Tuesday, June 2, 2009 9:24 AM

LONDON -- President Barack Obama suggested that Iran may have some right to nuclear energy _ provided it proves by the end of the year that its aspirations are peaceful.

In a BBC interview broadcast Tuesday, he also restated plans to pursue direct diplomacy with Tehran to encourage it set aside any ambitions for nuclear weapons it might harbor.

Iran has insisted its nuclear program is aimed at generating electricity. But the U.S. and other Western governments accuse Tehran of seeking atomic weapons.

"What I do believe is that Iran has legitimate energy concerns, legitimate aspirations," Obama said, adding that the international community also "has a very real interest" in preventing a nuclear arms race.

The president has indicated a willingness to seek deeper international sanctions against Tehran if it does not respond positively to U.S. attempts to open negotiations on its nuclear program. Obama has said Tehran has until the end of the year to show it wants to engage with Washington.

And what will be the options when Tehran tells O he can shove it at year's end?

279 aggieann  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:22:06am

re: #259 Kosh's Shadow

Are you trying to Usher in a new pun thread?

Only if he's stark raven mad.

280 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:22:16am

re: #264 acwgusa

These home sales are most likely the houses that were foreclosed on, and were selling for a song, and are not indicative of true home sales.

Probably. I know I bought one as an investment property. Even so the bigger issue is that buyers (speculators and/ or investors and/ or those that plan to live there) are out BUYING them, meaning that they are getting LOANS, meaning the banks are LENDING.

281 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:22:31am

re: #264 acwgusa

These home sales are most likely the houses that were foreclosed on, and were selling for a song, and are not indicative of true home sales.

It doesn't matter - it means that the banks aren't saddled with those houses, and people are living in them.

282 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:22:55am

re: #276 alegrias

OT

Kim Il Jong's 26 year old son & designated successor, was educated in Switzerland.

I am not comforted by this "progress"--Kim Jong Un could by like the chinless pro-Hezbollah, Iranian stooge Bashir al Assad, opthalomologist trained in England.

I think that the mere fact that he went back home demonstrates a certain lack of reason to be optimistic.

283 brookly red  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:22:59am

re: #269 Nevergiveup

And which is worse?

I guess the results will be the same.

284 KansasMom  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:23:00am

re: #265 unrealizedviewpoint

I don't understand America's obsession with vacuums. It's as if they are a commodity. jeez. When did it become so damn important... this bigger better faster vacuum craze?

I dunno, but my Roomba is pretty cool...
Named it 'Jaws'.

285 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:23:18am

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know, but I want one of the ones that uses a ball rather than wheels, so the angles are easier to do. In red.

I have a Dyson Animal Ball.

Unfortunately, it's purple.

286 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:23:58am

re: #285 Dianna

I have a Dyson Animal Ball.

Unfortunately, it's purple.

Do you like it?

287 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:23:58am

re: #260 MandyManners

You guys....

Hey, you were the one that took her clothes off at a gas station.

288 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:24:12am

re: #237 JohnnyReb

Nope they actually made a profit in 2008. An eight figure profit. And sales remain reasonable.

[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]

Old news, sales tanked since then, down 67%.

Hummer.

290 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:24:29am

re: #162 Dianna

Shall we have one of our stalwarts step forward to avenge this clumsy insult?

the cur is already dancing with a bespeckled matron with three feathers in her hair and a low decoletage.

291 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:24:34am

re: #280 sattv4u2

Probably. I know I bought one as an investment property. Even so the bigger issue is that buyers (speculators and/ or investors and/ or those that plan to live there) are out BUYING them, meaning that they are getting LOANS, meaning the banks are LENDING.

Much to people's dismay, I think this is a short upturn, which will run out when GM starts laying people off, California starts radically slashing spending, and the commercial real estate market starts reflecting the housing market.

292 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:24:34am

re: #276 alegrias

OT

Kim Il Jong's 26 year old son & designated successor, was educated in Switzerland.

I am not comforted by this "progress"--Kim Jong Un could by like the chinless pro-Hezbollah, Iranian stooge Bashir al Assad, opthalomologist trained in England.

The sooner the rotten tyranny in North Korea collapses the better.

I look forward to Kim Il Jong's hanging.

293 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:24:48am

re: #272 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't know, but I want one of the ones that uses a ball rather than wheels, so the angles are easier to do. In red.

You're serious aren't you? It's mindboggling to me. It's so damn unimportant to me. I wipe my feet on the way in and the place really doesn't get that dirty. Once a month or so I break out the 6-10 yr old vacuum and rake the carpets. No big deal. Put it this way - I'm not thinking about installing central vacuuming.

294 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:24:48am

re: #285 Dianna

I have a Dyson Animal Ball.

Unfortunately, it's purple.

How does that do on pet hair?

295 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:25:08am

Kim Gandy (NOW) being interviewd on NBC (being taped) re: where women will go now that Dr. Tiller was murdered.

(you'll most likely see it on tonights evening news)

296 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:25:10am

re: #273 Kenneth

Previously unreleased photo of Mandy washing her car.

The kink reverts to the front page, but I tracked through the menus far enough to confirm my suspicion.

Good One!

297 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:25:19am

re: #287 CyanSnowHawk

Hey, you were the one that took her clothes off at a gas station.

That was a funny story..Poor Mandy..I'll bet she carries extra clothes in her car from now on..
{Mandy}

298 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:25:21am

Israel smoldering in a nuclear cloud...

Obama on Teleprompter:
"This is not the Iran I once knew..."

/Hooray for words!

299 alegrias  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:25:37am

re: #240 Kenneth

* * * *
What next, after addressing "All Caliphate", Obama will address "All Christendom"? Why not, if he's going to pander to individual religions?

It's typical Marxist division by groups, denying individuality. For example, Indonesia's a bigger & better moslem country than Egypt. So is India, which is a democracy.

300 Mithrax  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:25:40am

re: #296 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The kink reverts to the front page, but I tracked through the menus far enough to confirm my suspicion.

Good One!

your Freud slipped :P

301 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:25:44am

BTW, Newsweek has a cover story on Oprah and bad science being promoted on her show. Just started reading, but not bad so far. Lizards following the anti-vaccination threads may want to check it out.

302 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:25:48am
303 Pianobuff  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:26:06am

re: #257 sattv4u2

,,, OT ,,,,
Pending Home Sales See Biggest Rise in More Than Seven Years- AP
Pending U.S. home sales in April posted the biggest monthly jump in nearly eight years, a sign that home sales are finally coming to life after a long and painful slump.

[Link: finance.yahoo.com...]

As many if not all economic indicators keep turnimg upwards, can we now PLEASE start contacting our congesscritters to put a HALT on the "stimulus" spending not yet in the pipeline? Seems as if the economy is self stimulated without the 95% + of the monies not scheduled to be spent until a year from now and beyond

Freshly posted on whitehouse.gov (I keep checking back there hoping to see a statement on yesterday's murder of our US soldier. but alas none yet) - "Vice President Biden Hosts Roundtable with Business Leaders on Recovery Act"

"New York – Vice President Joe Biden today hosted a roundtable with business leaders from across the country highlighting how the Recovery Act is not just creating and saving jobs, but also creating new business opportunities just 100 day into the two-year program......"

304 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:26:24am

Breathless admiration of Obama by a media dolt of the day award winner:

To be in the hallway when the president walks by with a handful of M&Ms, popping them in his mouth as he goes to visit his chief of staff -- it was unbelievable! - Brian Williams

I think I'm going to be sick...

305 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:26:30am

re: #286 SanFranciscoZionist

Do you like it?

I love it. It works, and even picks up both the dogs' fur.

306 KansasMom  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:26:35am

re: #293 unrealizedviewpoint

You're serious aren't you? It's mindboggling to me. It's so damn unimportant to me. I wipe my feet on the way in and the place really doesn't get that dirty. Once a month or so I break out the 6-10 yr old vacuum and rake the carpets. No big deal. Put it this way - I'm not thinking about installing central vacuuming.

I'm guessing you don't have pets? Dealing with shedding fur makes vacuums more important.

307 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:26:38am

re: #285 Dianna

I have a Dyson Animal Ball.

Unfortunately, it's purple.

I couldn't get my cat out of the Dyson Animal Ball after I put her in there. Not pretty. :)
/

308 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:26:50am

re: #291 acwgusa

Much to people's dismay, I think this is a short upturn, which will run out when GM starts laying people off, California starts radically slashing spending, and the commercial real estate market starts reflecting the housing market.

How is banks lending money to "peoples dismay"? Also, every OTHER economic indicator is in an upturn, except for employment which is always last. But even there the cuts the past 2 months were less than "predicted"

309 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:26:52am

re: #296 pre-Boomer Marine brat

From a great movie, too!

310 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:27:05am

re: #294 doppelganglander

How does that do on pet hair?

Fantastic. For once, an object is precisely as advertised.

311 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:27:12am

re: #300 Mithrax

your Freud slipped :P

Soap it would seem.

312 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:27:26am

re: #308 sattv4u2

How is banks lending money to "peoples dismay"? Also, every OTHER economic indicator is in an upturn, except for employment which is always last. But even there the cuts the past 2 months were less than "predicted"

I phrased that wrong. Sorry.

313 StillAMarine  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:27:34am

re: #251 Ward Cleaver

I wonder how long it will be before 0bama tries to knock Ford down a peg? After all, the government hates competition.

Yeah. That is why extortion is illegal in the United States. The government doesn't want any competition.

314 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:27:40am

re: #273 Kenneth

Previously unreleased photo of Mandy washing her car.

Not gonna click on that 'til I get home.

315 Baier  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:27:43am

re: #66 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't see it. You may dislike his diplomacy, but I don't see evidence of any kind of belief in cultural relativism there, except for the kind U.S. foreign policy has always practiced--see the Saudis for the biggest, most obnoxious example of that.

If a leader goes to Egypt or Saudi Arabia, where citizens are brutalized by the governments, and bows and makes nice, as far as I'm concerned you are giving tacit support to that regimes actions. As far as quotes go, Obama has said he doesn't believe democracy is compatible with every culture.

"The danger, I think, is when the United States, or any country, thinks that we can simply impose these values on another country with a different history and a different culture"
316 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:27:54am

re: #309 Kenneth

From a great movie, too!

Indeed!

317 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:27:57am

re: #304 Kenneth

Breathless admiration of Obama by a media dolt of the day award winner:

I think I'm going to be sick...

How could he pop anything in his mouth when Brian already...uh...never mind.

318 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:28:04am

re: #161 kansas

Mohammed: "Yeah, I did it, but I'm not guilty." Anyone doubt the necessity for military tribunals now? Well other than the fucking Democrats.

I dont think he is too bright. Should have been smart enough to pick a state without the death penalty.

319 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:28:09am

re: #303 Pianobuff

jjjeeezzzz!

TRANSLATION: ,, we really haven't done anything yet but seeing it's good news we're going to take credit for it!

320 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:28:10am

re: #293 unrealizedviewpoint

You're serious aren't you? It's mindboggling to me. It's so damn unimportant to me. I wipe my feet on the way in and the place really doesn't get that dirty. Once a month or so I break out the 6-10 yr old vacuum and rake the carpets. No big deal. Put it this way - I'm not thinking about installing central vacuuming.

Well, not so serious, because I have no money right now, and the old vacuum that the in-laws left behind will do for a while. But yes, I would love to get one.

It's just one of those things...

321 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:28:28am

re: #264 acwgusa

These home sales are most likely the houses that were foreclosed on, and were selling for a song, and are not indicative of true home sales.

Here in CT a whole bunch of banks are getting extremely nervous and selling houses at a tremendous loss just to get rid of them. We had 4 sell in our neighborhood that were all held by the same bank. In one of those sales I know for a fact they took over $100K in loss. And that is not even counting over a year or so worth of property tax, that my crappy ex-neighbors had failed to pay.

322 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:28:32am

re: #299 alegrias

* * * *
What next, after addressing "All Caliphate", Obama will address "All Christendom"? Why not, if he's going to pander to individual religions?

It's typical Marxist division by groups, denying individuality. For example, Indonesia's a bigger & better moslem country than Egypt. So is India, which is a democracy.

Obama's speech writers are still working on how to fit Dar al-Harb and Dar al-Islam into an anecdote about his childhood.

323 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:28:32am

re: #306 KansasMom

I'm guessing you don't have pets? Dealing with shedding fur makes vacuums more important.

I didn't think about that...
oh wait..yes I have..
no pets!
Actually, I keep my pets at friends homes, they care for them for me.

324 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:28:53am

re: #306 KansasMom

I'm guessing you don't have pets? Dealing with shedding fur makes vacuums more important.

Or just get poodles, which don't shed. But hate vacuum cleaners.

325 KansasMom  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:29:01am

re: #310 Dianna

Fantastic. For once, an object is precisely as advertised.


Thanks for the tip! (BTW, the Roomba is surprisingly good with pet fur too. Plus its funny how it seems to chase the cats.)

326 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:29:12am

Now I know why the military recruiting station shooting isn't getting the press like the abortion doctor killing...

"Before the not guilty plea, authorities said Bledsoe waived his Miranda rights Monday and gave a video statement indicating that there were "political and religious" motives in the shooting."

"He "stated that he was a practicing Muslim, that he was mad at the U.S. military because of what it had done to Muslims in the past," homicide detective Tommy Hudson said in a police report."

I'm glad Bledsoe cleared that up for us.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

327 Pianobuff  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:29:23am

re: #319 sattv4u2

jjjeeezzzz!

TRANSLATION: ,, we really haven't done anything yet but seeing it's good news we're going to take credit for it!

This claim is made later....

"The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act was signed into law by President Obama on February 17, 2009 as the nation faced the greatest economic crisis in half a century. Just over 100 days in, over 150,000 jobs have been created or saved by the Recovery Act and over $126 billion has been obligated to stimulative programs and projects."

328 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:29:47am

re: #314 Ward Cleaver

Not gonna click on that 'til I get home.

Mind you, I've only heard rumors about Brian's Drive-*n Theat*r ...

329 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:29:53am

re: #304 Kenneth

Breathless admiration of Obama by a media dolt of the day award winner:

I think I'm going to be sick...

"He's so... dreamy!"

/williams sighs, faints

330 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:30:13am

re: #294 doppelganglander

How does that do on pet hair?

I've got the older Dyson Animal package. It does pretty good on the cat hair that we have all over the place. Best vacuum I've ever had.

331 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:30:51am

re: #326 Walter L. Newton

Now I know why the military recruiting station shooting isn't getting the press like the abortion doctor killing...

"Before the not guilty plea, authorities said Bledsoe waived his Miranda rights Monday and gave a video statement indicating that there were "political and religious" motives in the shooting."

"He "stated that he was a practicing Muslim, that he was mad at the U.S. military because of what it had done to Muslims in the past," homicide detective Tommy Hudson said in a police report."

I'm glad Bledsoe cleared that up for us.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

And if this were the Islamic Republic of Iran, they would have taken him out and hanged him already?

332 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:31:04am

re: #257 sattv4u2

,
As many if not all economic indicators keep turnimg upwards, can we now PLEASE start contacting our congesscritters to put a HALT on the "stimulus" spending not yet in the pipeline? Seems as if the economy is self stimulated without the 95% + of the monies not scheduled to be spent until a year from now and beyond

Quite for now, if just saying we'll throw money at the problem works, wait a bit before we say "Just kidding" and let it keep improving.
The market goes up, the consumer thinks things are better and spends money, more money spent will bring jobs, jobs bring tax money. Once we think thinks are better, they will be.

333 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:31:24am

re: #315 Baier

Egypt has long been the recipient of huge amounts of U.S. aid, and the Saudis have long just been the recipient of huge amounts of U.S. money, tolerance, and protection. I suppose I don't see Obama as doing any worse in this area than many another U.S. president--which is not to say that I don't wish he would do better.

334 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:31:35am

Does this mean the Bush doctrine worked? Or does Obama get credit for the sudden drop in sympathy for Islamists in the Middle East?

335 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:31:45am

re: #297 HoosierHoops

That was a funny story..Poor Mandy..I'll bet she carries extra clothes in her car from now on..
{Mandy}

I LOL'ed at that for a long time. Still smile to think of it. Thanks {Mandy}.

336 Pianobuff  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:31:46am

re: #326 Walter L. Newton

Now I know why the military recruiting station shooting isn't getting the press like the abortion doctor killing...

"Before the not guilty plea, authorities said Bledsoe waived his Miranda rights Monday and gave a video statement indicating that there were "political and religious" motives in the shooting."

"He "stated that he was a practicing Muslim, that he was mad at the U.S. military because of what it had done to Muslims in the past," homicide detective Tommy Hudson said in a police report."

I'm glad Bledsoe cleared that up for us.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Actually, Obama could kinda hop on this and get a double win.... He could blame Bush policies for creating this sentiment and at the same time use this as further justification why not to release photos, etc....

337 Dianna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:31:54am

Back to work.

338 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:32:00am

re: #310 Dianna

Fantastic. For once, an object is precisely as advertised.

I'll have to look into it (and possibly take out a second mortgage, since they're so expensive). I have not had good experiences with bagless vacuums in the past. My Kenmore Progressive is pretty good and got a good rating from Consumer Reports, but it's no match for the fluffy mutt and 3 cats.

339 KansasMom  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:32:17am

re: #333 SanFranciscoZionist

Egypt has long been the recipient of huge amounts of U.S. aid, and the Saudis have long just been the recipient of huge amounts of U.S. money, tolerance, and protection. I suppose I don't see Obama as doing any worse in this area than many another U.S. president--which is not to say that I don't wish he would do better.

Really, we give money to the Saudis? Are you talking about oil revenues or aid?

340 acwgusa  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:32:33am

re: #332 avanti

Quite for now, if just saying we'll throw money at the problem works, wait a bit before we say "Just kidding" and let it keep improving.
The market goes up, the consumer thinks things are better and spends money, more money spent will bring jobs, jobs bring tax money. Once we think thinks are better, they will be.

So, economics is about feelings now, not actual numbers?

341 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:32:37am

re: #331 Nevergiveup

And if this were the Islamic Republic of Iran, they would have taken him out and hanged him already?

Well, it's evident that he was a "practicing Muslim" since if he didn't need the practice, he would have succeeded in not getting caught or blown himself up. Bad, Muslim, Bad.

342 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:32:42am

[BBC News]
Page last updated at 05:02 GMT, Tuesday, 2 June 2009 06:02 UK
Obama hopeful on Mid-East peace
President Obama looks ahead to his trip to the Middle East

US President Barack Obama has told the BBC he believes his country can help to get serious Middle East peace negotiations back on track.

Mr Obama's first interview with a UK broadcaster comes on the eve of a trip to the Middle East and Europe.

On Iran, he said he hoped to see progress by the end of the year, through "tough, direct diplomacy".

But he said, rather than imposing its values on other countries, the US should act as a role model.

{snip}

"What I have said is that it is in the world's interests for Iran to set aside ambitions for a nuclear weapon," he said, and the best way for that to be accomplished was "through tough direct diplomacy".

"Although I don't want to put artificial timetables on that process, we do want to make sure that, by the end of this year, we've actually seen a serious process move forward".

Timetables are bad now that O's in the driver's seat, he'd look bad if he isn't up to actually doing something.

And to say he is against timetables and with virtually same breath tell Iran they have until year's end to do something shows the utter disconnect with reality the man enjoys.

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:32:42am

re: #325 KansasMom

Thanks for the tip! (BTW, the Roomba is surprisingly good with pet fur too. Plus its funny how it seems to chase the cats.)

There's some YouTube footage up of a cat that rides one.

344 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:32:59am

re: #289 razorbacker


Okay then, carry on. As long as the HMMWV is still made here, I don't really mind about those Hummers. Just another thing that we'll buy, and not make. Add it to the list.

According to my contacts back home, the Hummers will still be made in Mishawaka, by Hoosiers, just owned by the Chinese

345 Mithrax  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:33:00am

re: #338 doppelganglander

I'll have to look into it (and possibly take out a second mortgage, since they're so expensive). I have not had good experiences with bagless vacuums in the past. My Kenmore Progressive is pretty good and got a good rating from Consumer Reports, but it's no match for the fluffy mutt and 3 cats.

I have the small portable dyson vacuum, and it works like a hot damn with the Incredible Shedding Machine living here.

346 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:33:28am

re: #338 doppelganglander

I'll have to look into it (and possibly take out a second mortgage, since they're so expensive). I have not had good experiences with bagless vacuums in the past. My Kenmore Progressive is pretty good and got a good rating from Consumer Reports, but it's no match for the fluffy mutt and 3 cats.

This reminds me of a joke. What's the difference between a hoover and a harley?

Position of the dirtbag.
*rimshot*

/no offense to bikers or harleys or hoovers...

347 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:34:07am

re: #326 Walter L. Newton

Now I know why the military recruiting station shooting isn't getting the press like the abortion doctor killing...

"Before the not guilty plea, authorities said Bledsoe waived his Miranda rights Monday and gave a video statement indicating that there were "political and religious" motives in the shooting."

"He "stated that he was a practicing Muslim, that he was mad at the U.S. military because of what it had done to Muslims in the past," homicide detective Tommy Hudson said in a police report."

I'm glad Bledsoe cleared that up for us.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]


The suspect is a Muslim convert who has also gone by Carlos Bledsoe and Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad.

He changed his name from the latter April 23, citing religious reasons, court records show

.

Huh? He changed his name from Muhammad to Bledsoe for religious reasons?

348 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:34:21am

re: #340 acwgusa

So, economics is about feelings now, not actual numbers?

Yep, consumer confidence drives the economy and that makes real numbers.

349 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:34:49am

re: #336 Pianobuff

Actually, Obama could kinda hop on this and get a double win.... He could blame Bush policies for creating this sentiment and at the same time use this as further justification why not to release photos, etc....

Ya mean instead of doing what is best for the US of A he might do what's best for him? Whoda figured that?

350 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:34:52am

re: #327 Pianobuff

This claim is made later....

"The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act was signed into law by President Obama on February 17, 2009 as the nation faced the greatest economic crisis in half a century. Just over 100 days in, over 150,000 jobs have been created or saved by the Recovery Act and over $126 billion has been obligated to stimulative programs and projects."

sigh

351 Eowyn2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:35:11am

re: #337 Dianna

Back to work.


out to lunch

352 Baier  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:35:13am

re: #333 SanFranciscoZionist

Egypt has long been the recipient of huge amounts of U.S. aid, and the Saudis have long just been the recipient of huge amounts of U.S. money, tolerance, and protection. I suppose I don't see Obama as doing any worse in this area than many another U.S. president--which is not to say that I don't wish he would do better.

I believe that US policy has been consistently ridiculous. I think Obama is worse in this area than most previous presidents.

353 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:35:28am

re: #339 KansasMom

Really, we give money to the Saudis? Are you talking about oil revenues or aid?

Oil money. Less now than we used to, but it's there.

354 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:35:32am

re: #318 Eowyn2

I dont think he is too bright. Should have been smart enough to pick a state without the death penalty.

If he's executed, does he still get his virgins?

355 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:35:48am

re: #346 Oh no...Sand People!

This reminds me of a joke. What's the difference between a hoover and a harley?

Position of the dirtbag.
*rimshot*

/no offense to bikers or harleys or hoovers...

Cute. How's things?

356 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:36:00am

re: #347 MandyManners

.

Huh? He changed his name from Muhammad to Bledsoe for religious reasons?

Looks like clueless editing on that report.

357 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:36:16am

OT, but interesting:

Feds spike voter citizenship checks in Georgia

From the article:

"This flawed system frequently subjects a disproportionate number of African-American, Asian and/or Hispanic voters to additional, and more importantly, erroneous burdens on the right to register to vote," Loretta King, acting assistant attorney general of the Justice Department's civil rights division, said.

The logic escapes me. If the Georgia policy to check SSN/driver's licenses when people register to vote, is this woman implying that Georgia only asks African-American, Asian, and Hispanics to show them? Is she saying that Georgia doesn't ask the same of white registrants? She doesn't say that, so the objection based on "additional" burdens seems baseless to me.

358 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:36:19am

re: #340 acwgusa

So, economics is about feelings now, not actual numbers?

Economics is about feelings. If it was just about numbers, it would be easier.

359 alegrias  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:36:42am

re: #344 avanti

According to my contacts back home, the Hummers will still be made in Mishawaka, by Hoosiers, just owned by the Chinese

* * * * *
Chinese factory management rocks! Ask any Chinese factory worker.

Work all day to make 50 cents a day, that's living large--in the company dormitory.

That's change all right.

360 Pianobuff  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:36:51am

re: #348 avanti

Yep, consumer confidence drives the economy and that makes real numbers.

Didn't someone get lambasted for suggesting that there were psychological factors involved in the economy last year?

361 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:37:25am

re: #352 Baier

I believe that US policy has been consistently ridiculous. I think Obama is worse in this area than most previous presidents.

OK, that's fair enough.

362 gymmom  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:37:56am

#340 acwgusa

So, economics is about feelings now, not actual numbers?


Interesting show on cnbc

This was called Meeting of the Minds: The future of Capitalism. I found it interesting, an actual discussion.

363 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:38:15am

re: #356 Kenneth

Looks like clueless editing on that report.

And, writing. There is no excuse to confuse latter with former.

364 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:39:31am

re: #360 Pianobuff

Didn't someone get lambasted for suggesting that there were psychological factors involved in the economy last year?

I keep clicking the + button but I can only give you one ,, DAMN!

365 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:40:34am

re: #304 Kenneth

Breathless admiration of Obama by a media dolt of the day award winner:

I think I'm going to be sick...

actually this fawning and frothing over every little thing abt. o,
is doing a grave disservice to him. as his sense of grandeur and entitlement grows, he is, at some point going to go too far and many people will recognize it.
he is starting to act like royalty now. more pompous, arrogant and impatient than ever before. it will be things like hopping on 3 planes and a helicopter to fly up to nyc for a evening date w/ wab, after he had just admonished us to get use to sacrificing. and get used to our children sacrificing.
this really shows he has no awareness beyond his own kingly fabulousness.
it is going to his head.
the genuflecting msm is setting him up. his hubris is already becoming ugly.
it is just not possible that he is so perfect and beyond reproach.

366 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:40:49am

re: #357 subsailor68

OT, but interesting:

Feds spike voter citizenship checks in Georgia

From the article:

"This flawed system frequently subjects a disproportionate number of African-American, Asian and/or Hispanic voters to additional, and more importantly, erroneous burdens on the right to register to vote," Loretta King, acting assistant attorney general of the Justice Department's civil rights division, said.

The logic escapes me. If the Georgia policy to check SSN/driver's licenses when people register to vote, is this woman implying that Georgia only asks African-American, Asian, and Hispanics to show them? Is she saying that Georgia doesn't ask the same of white registrants? She doesn't say that, so the objection based on "additional" burdens seems baseless to me.

The way it works is, they have a program that scans the voter roles, compares it to other federal and state databases, and kicks out potential non-citizens. About half the names generated in this way belonged to citizens. Also, most of the questionable names belonged to black, Hispanic, or Asian residents. I read about one naturalized couple from Jamaica who had a lot of trouble getting the DoS to accept their documents proving they're citizens.

I agree that the current method is flawed and should be corrected to produce fewer mistakes. I'm annoyed that the civil rights grievance industry has to turn it into a racial matter.

367 Jack Burton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:41:10am

re: #327 Pianobuff

This claim is made later....

"The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act was signed into law by President Obama on February 17, 2009 as the nation faced the greatest economic crisis in half a century. Just over 100 days in, over 150,000 nutjobs have been created or saved by the Recovery Act"

FTFY

368 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:41:32am

re: #332 avanti

Quite for now, if just saying we'll throw money at the problem works, wait a bit before we say "Just kidding" and let it keep improving.
The market goes up, the consumer thinks things are better and spends money, more money spent will bring jobs, jobs bring tax money. Once we think thinks are better, they will be.

You really are a liberal, aren't you, avanti? Wow. I think you have just nailed the media's Assist Obama™ strategy, however.

369 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:41:48am

re: #344 avanti

According to my contacts back home, the Hummers will still be made in Mishawaka, by Hoosiers, just owned by the Chinese

Now you're confusing me again. I must be extra stupid today. Follow me around the bush again.

AM General makes the HMMWV. GM makes the Hummer. Two different critters. GM sold the Hummer to Chinese interests. As I understand it, AM General and GM are not the same. So, why would HMMWV workers be working for the Chinese?

370 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:42:16am

re: #367 ArchangelMichael

"The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act was signed into law by President Obama on February 17, 2009 as the nation faced the greatest economic crisis in half a century. Just over 100 days in, over 150,000 GOVERNMENT nutjobs have been created or saved by the Recovery Act"

FTFY

FTFY too !

371 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:43:13am

re: #297 HoosierHoops

That was a funny story..Poor Mandy..I'll bet she carries extra clothes in her car from now on..
{Mandy}

that story is one among many captured forever in VOLUME 1 OF THE COOKBOOK.

Click my nic to purchase

OR

to send me a contribution for VOLUME 2 now in the works.
Deadline is June 30th.

do it now, or Sharmuta will yell at you.

372 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:43:28am

re: #369 razorbacker

Now you're confusing me again. I must be extra stupid today. Follow me around the bush again.

AM General makes the HMMWV. GM makes the Hummer. Two different critters. GM sold the Hummer to Chinese interests. As I understand it, AM General and GM are not the same. So, why would HMMWV workers be working for the Chinese?

Better Hot and Sour Soup

373 Jack Burton  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:43:29am

re: #344 avanti

According to my contacts back home, the Hummers will still be made in Mishawaka, by Hoosiers, just owned by the Chinese

Aren't they made in Shreveport, LA?

374 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:44:16am

re: #355 doppelganglander

Cute. How's things?

Alot of the same and doing alright regardless. lol.

375 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:44:37am

re: #370 sattv4u2

These numbers are unsupportable. The claim could as easily be "Obama farted, and saved a million jobs thereby". He also increased greenhouse gases thereby.

376 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:45:10am

re: #374 Oh no...Sand People!

Alot of the same and doing alright regardless. lol.

{Sand People}

377 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:46:26am

re: #344 avanti

According to my contacts back home, the Hummers will still be made in Mishawaka, by Hoosiers, just owned by the Chinese

Only thru 2010

378 Pianobuff  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:46:51am

re: #375 quickjustice

These numbers are unsupportable. The claim could as easily be "Obama farted, and saved a million jobs thereby". He also increased greenhouse gases thereby.

I wish I had been prescient enough to bid on making Recovery Act road signs. Would have made some real bucks off of that.....

379 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:47:10am

re: #375 quickjustice

These numbers are unsupportable. The claim could as easily be "Obama farted, and saved a million jobs thereby". He also increased greenhouse gases thereby.

Here's the math (Obama style0

I want to lose 10 lbs.
In that I didn't GAIN 100 lbs while losing the 10 lbs, I actually SAVED OR LOST 110 lbs

380 razorbacker  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:47:12am

re: #368 capitalist piglet

You really are a liberal, aren't you, avanti? Wow. I think you have just nailed the media's Assist Obama™ strategy, however.

Avanti, IMNHO, overspeaks. You cannot deny that consumer confidence plays a part in economics. Witness the steady drumbeat since the before the first Clinton election about the 'worst economy since the Great Depression' every time a Republican is the incumbent.

If enough people tell you that you are sick you might start to feel a little peaked.

381 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:47:35am

re: #375 quickjustice

These numbers are unsupportable. The claim could as easily be "Obama farted, and saved a million jobs thereby". He also increased greenhouse gases thereby.

Doesn't matter. You nor anyone else can prove those numbers are false. They can actually make up any reasonable number they want. Can't go too high too soon though.

Sort of like the number of people who die from global warming every year. Or the totally unsupported figure of over 300,000 US citizens die each year from second hand smoke. Both numbers are totally unsupported by any facts.

382 Drider  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:48:12am

Americans losing ground in North America kinda plucks the bloom off of any rose dealing with Islamics taking it on the chin and anyhow, our Dear Leader just mentioned how Iran has a right to nuclear power and my question is, what Country ever developed their own nuclear power and DIDN'T end up making the bomb?

Seems to me the Islamics are making great gains in some areas that will override others, of course we Americans are still moving from stall mode into a flat spin mode.Oh, well.Peace be upon you yada,yada,yada,yada.

383 sattv4u2  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:49:16am

re: #381 JohnnyReb

Both numbers are totally unsupported by any facts

To qoute The 0ne

"you haven;t seen anything yet"!

384 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:49:34am

re: #359 alegrias

* * * * *
Chinese factory management rocks! Ask any Chinese factory worker.

Work all day to make 50 cents a day, that's living large--in the company dormitory.

That's change all right.

The 50 cents a day figure is perhaps 20 years out of date, the average is about $1.00 hour, but skilled workers make much more, and living costs are much lower there.

China labor costs are still low...but they're rising.
February 26, 2008

The data is in from the first comprehensive wage study conducted in China and the results are instructive for US managers who source goods from China. The summary is:

* The average China hourly wage is $0.98/hr, so there is still a significant wage difference between the US and Chinese labor costs
* Benefits actually are a larger percentage of the hourly wage in China vs. the US
* Benefits rates are going up
* There is upward price pressure on wages that has and will continue to erode a portion of China's low cost manufacturing position amongst its global competitors (India, Vietnam, etc) but as they move up the value curve, China remains an attractive place to locate manufacturing and develop supplier partners.

link...

385 avanti  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 10:54:48am

re: #369 razorbacker

Now you're confusing me again. I must be extra stupid today. Follow me around the bush again.

AM General makes the HMMWV. GM makes the Hummer. Two different critters. GM sold the Hummer to Chinese interests. As I understand it, AM General and GM are not the same. So, why would HMMWV workers be working for the Chinese?

Sorry, the civilian version will be owned by the Chinese, but they'll all be built by Americans. The GM Hummer is built at the AM General plant, confused yet ?

386 gtrs  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:01:59am

OT- jameer nelson practices with team; GO MAGIC

387 Land Shark  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:04:11am

I do hope this trend continues. More democracy, less Islamist Fundamentalism. Let's hope it spreads, the forces against freedom in the Middle East will not go away quietly.

388 Truck Monkey  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:04:19am

re: #238 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Poe. ... Really Poe.
(Do better next time.)

Dudes a Raven lunatic!

389 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:11:11am

re: #124 badger1970

With two governors starring in it. How could it not be shown to all classes regarding Central American history? /

To this day, if you fly on a Central American airline, rather than saying "we will be boarding by rows, beginning with Business Class and those requiring extra time to board [etc.]", they simply bellow GET TO THE CHOPPAH!

A profoundly influential movie.

390 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:19:10am

re: #359 alegrias

The Rise of Chimerica!

391 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:22:02am

re: #379 sattv4u2

Here's the math (Obama style0

I want to lose 10 lbs.
In that I didn't GAIN 100 lbs while losing the 10 lbs, I actually SAVED OR LOST 110 lbs

No quite. The Obama diet plan is:

I want to lose 10 lbs.
I gain 190 lbs.
Hurray, I lost 10 lbs less than the 200 lbs I might otherwise have gained!

392 jvic  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:34:16am

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #134 badger1970

re: #117 subsailor68

Wikipedia:

General Sir Charles James Napier GCB (10 August 1782 – 29 August 1853) was a British general and Commander-in-Chief in India, famous for conquering Sindh province in present-day Pakistan.
...
In 1842, at the age of 60, he was appointed as Major-General to the command of the Indian army within the Bombay Presidency. Here Lord Ellenborough's policy led Napier to Sindh, for the purpose of quelling the Muslim rulers of the region, who had made various hostile demonstrations against the British government after the termination of the First Anglo-Afghan War. His campaign against these chieftains resulted, after the victories of Meanee (Miani) and Hyderabad, in the complete subjugation of the province of Sindh, and its annexation to eastern dominions. In doing so, he contrravened direct orders; he was sent only to put down the rebels, not conquer. Napier is supposed to have despatched to headquarters a short, famous message, "Peccavi" – Latin for "I have sinned" (a pun for "I have Sindh").
...
A story for which Napier is famous involves a delegation of Hindu locals approaching him and complaining about prohibition of Sati, often referred to at the time as suttee, by British authorities. This was the custom of burning widows alive on the funeral pyres of their husbands. The exact wording of his response varies somewhat in different reports, but the following version captures its essence:
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."

Rule Britannia. Our Founders well knew that the British Empire was far from perfect, but it stood for more than naked imperialism.

393 Orangutan  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:52:23am

Thanks for passing this along, wouldn't have seen it otherwise. Definite day-brightener.

394 jcbunga  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:53:23am

re: #285 Dianna

I have a Dyson Animal Ball.

Unfortunately, it's purple.

I have one as well. It works very well. I swear it would pull a Canadian Goose right out of formation.

395 filetandrelease  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:55:51am

IMO mulsim woman are the best hope to bring (drag) islam into the 21st century. Kicking and screaming all the way.

396 Render  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 11:59:06am

re: #385 avanti

Just to confuse things even further there are already two different Chinese companies making crude copies of the Hummer/HMMWV.

[Link: www.chinacartimes.com...]

China is in the beginning stages of a huge military upgrade across the board. Light 4 wheel vehicles would be part of that upgrade.

Given that all three companies are either wholly or partially owned by the PLA*, my guess is this third company doesn't care so much about the GM brand they've bought as much as they care about getting the plans, diagrams, and tooling used to make the Hummers. See Varyag...

I wonder if they even realized (or cared) that it wasn't the actual AM General HMMWV company they were buying?

*I have links for that, but they're not safe.

GREAT
WALLS
AFIRE,
R

397 quiet man  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 12:04:44pm

No country can be truely free who holds 1/2 of it's population as voiceless slaves.

This is good news.

398 Leon77  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 12:06:18pm

Signs of improvement are good, I love the comment about Obama bringing peace..heh. I hope that muslim nations will be able to shed their extremists without a full blown "reformation" and the inevitable civil war that would follow.

Wishful thinking?

399 kynna  Tue, Jun 2, 2009 12:07:52pm

Bush won't get any credit for this. Obama's "apologist diplomacy" will get credit. Until that fails -- because it's always failed before (giving cred to the terrorists and the cold shoulder to our allies -- and then Bush will be blamed for the collapse.

Unless, of course, the non-extremists can hold it. That would be a truly great thing to see.

And, for now, great news!


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