On the way to answering the question of why humorists seem to make fun of Christians more often than Muslims, Barrett Brown shamelessly admits that it’s all about the pageviews: Muslims Love the Sweet Taste of Candy: A Message to Judeo-Christian Literalists.
1 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 2:36:32pm |
As a longtime humorist for such outlets as National Lampoon and The Onion who has written a great deal of blasphemy against all three of the largely interchangeable monotheist religions, and who has worked with a great number of other humorists over the years, and who has in fact lived in a country with a near-majority Muslim population and who once shared an apartment with a devout Sunni, I can assure this commenter and everyone else that it has never once crossed my mind that I might actually be killed for mocking the Ismaili branch of the global Yahweh/Elohim/Allah cult, and I sincerely doubt that a single American humorist has ever refrained from writing a single line out of concern that he might be killed for it.
Yes, that's all one sentence, folks.
| 2 |
allegro Fri, May 7, 2010 2:39:12pm |
re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist
LOL I noticed that. It made my eyes cross and got me breathless just reading it.
| 3 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 2:39:14pm |
Uhh, I thought that you kind of liked his stuff and that you were collaborators on a few recent projects. Now he is Persona-non-grata too or something?
Damn your picky Charles... :p
/after all no one is actually perfect.
| 4 |
cliffster Fri, May 7, 2010 2:40:54pm |
re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah, say that out loud without taking a breath.
But nobody could crank out run-on sentences like David Foster Wallace.
| 5 |
SpaceJesus Fri, May 7, 2010 2:41:35pm |
why don't fundamentalist christians stop complaining about getting made fun of exclusively, and start making fun of islam themselves?
oh wait, that requires a sense of humor to begin with.
| 6 |
jaunte Fri, May 7, 2010 2:42:04pm |
re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist
As a longtime humorist for such outlets as National Lampoon and The Onion who has written a great deal of blasphemy against all three of the largely interchangeable monotheist religions, and who has worked with a great number of other humorists over the years, and who has in fact lived in a country with a near-majority Muslim population and who once shared an apartment with a devout Sunni, I can assure this commenter and everyone else that it has never once crossed my mind that I might actually be killed for mocking the Ismaili branch of the global Yahweh/Elohim/Allah cult, and I sincerely doubt that a single American humorist has ever refrained from writing a single line out of concern that he might be killed for it.
Yes, that's all one sentence, folks.
Fueled by caffeine!
I don’t know what atheist jihad entails yet, but I suspect it will involve drinking more coffee, and I’ve already had like a whole big pot of coffee today, so look out, world!
| 7 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 2:42:09pm |
re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist
As a longtime humorist for such outlets as National Lampoon and The Onion who has written a great deal of blasphemy against all three of the largely interchangeable monotheist religions, and who has worked with a great number of other humorists over the years, and who has in fact lived in a country with a near-majority Muslim population and who once shared an apartment with a devout Sunni, I can assure this commenter and everyone else that it has never once crossed my mind that I might actually be killed for mocking the Ismaili branch of the global Yahweh/Elohim/Allah cult, and I sincerely doubt that a single American humorist has ever refrained from writing a single line out of concern that he might be killed for it.
Yes, that's all one sentence, folks.
Look up the "story of Cuthbert Hatch" if you want to see the longest single sentence ever written that is grammatically correct.
| 8 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 2:43:05pm |
re: #5 SpaceJesus
why don't fundamentalist christians stop complaining about getting made fun of exclusively, and start making fun of islam themselves?
oh wait, that requires a sense of humor to begin with.
Also, they actually are afraid that Muslims might kill them. They'd rather some secular comedian make fun of Islam and get killed. Then they could laugh at the jokes, and be irate about Islamic violence, PLUS, still be alive.
| 9 |
Charles Johnson Fri, May 7, 2010 2:43:38pm |
re: #3 ausador
Uhh, I thought that you kind of liked his stuff and that you were collaborators on a few recent projects. Now he is Persona-non-grata too or something?
Damn your picky Charles... :p
/after all no one is actually perfect.
Don't tell me I need to start using sarc tags on my posts.
| 10 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 2:45:24pm |
I once saw a piece by a Palestinian-American comedian from California who went to Israel and reported back. His report was that everyone involved in the conflict looks the same. Also, we all look like Mexicans. He wasn't sure this would get us anywhere, but thought it worth mentioning.
| 11 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 2:46:13pm |
Important life lessons you can learn from the Simpsons, just make fun of everybody and you'll never (well hardly ever) have to say you're sorry.
| 12 |
Neutral President Fri, May 7, 2010 2:47:06pm |
re: #11 jamesfirecat
Important life lessons you can learn from the Simpsons, just make fun of everybody and you'll never (well hardly ever) have to say you're sorry.
Didn't work too well for Matt Stone and Trey Parker after 200 & 201.
| 13 |
SpaceJesus Fri, May 7, 2010 2:48:39pm |
re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist
I once saw a piece by a Palestinian-American comedian from California who went to Israel and reported back. His report was that everyone involved in the conflict looks the same. Also, we all look like Mexicans. He wasn't sure this would get us anywhere, but thought it worth mentioning.
mexican juice?
| 14 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 2:49:43pm |
re: #10 SanFranciscoZionist
I once saw a piece by a Palestinian-American comedian from California who went to Israel and reported back. His report was that everyone involved in the conflict looks the same. Also, we all look like Mexicans. He wasn't sure this would get us anywhere, but thought it worth mentioning.
Wow...
So horribly tasteless.
The only funny joke I ever heard along similar lines was from a comic of Indian decent...
"Please note I'm not Muslim, I'm Hindu. They can't eat pork we can't eat beef. They are connected with 9-11... we are connected with 7-11...."
And that only worked because he was saying it rather than me...
| 15 |
Taqyia2Me Fri, May 7, 2010 2:50:32pm |
Side-note:
Barrett must be young iffn' he wuz takin' Vicodin as a teenager!
| 16 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 2:52:23pm |
Friday is mind numbing data entry day.
With background noise. Click listen now.
| 17 |
Neutral President Fri, May 7, 2010 2:53:16pm |
re: #16 Racer X
Friday is mind numbing data entry day.Click listen now.
I thought it was Hawaiian Shirt Day.
| 18 |
Oh no...Sand People! Fri, May 7, 2010 3:02:21pm |
So does my polytheistic belief get a pass then?
| 19 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, May 7, 2010 3:02:31pm |
There used to be a Muslim humor page, kind of like The Onion, called "IslamicaNews.com (News You Can Lose)"
It is gone now, but they used to have some pretty funny article, like "Local Man Blames His Traffic Tickets on the Jews" and "Muslim Gal Wears Orange Headscarf at her Hooters Job"
| 20 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 3:04:40pm |
re: #19 Alouette
There used to be a Muslim humor page, kind of like The Onion, called "IslamicaNews.com (News You Can Lose)"
It is gone now, but they used to have some pretty funny article, like "Local Man Blames His Traffic Tickets on the Jews" and "Muslim Gal Wears Orange Headscarf at her Hooters Job"
Traffic accident caused by flagrant display of ankle....
| 23 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 3:14:07pm |
re: #9 Charles
Don't tell me I need to start using sarc tags on my posts.
Wouldn't hurt for the sake of those of us that are sarcasm impaired... ;)
Pbbbbtt!
| 24 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 3:15:51pm |
Echo chamber sure is quiet for a Friday evening.
;-)
| 25 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 7, 2010 3:17:10pm |
Aaarrrghhh!
Megyn Kelly interviews Ron Paul on the Greece crisis.
Asked whether the crisis can spread to the US, Paul says,
"“Absolutely, there’s going to be anger. There’s going to be riots in the streets as well. But this is all a consequence of the fact of why and how government could spend like this. It’s because they don’t have sound money."
The perfect storm of crazy. Buy Gold! (Credit, debit and printed Federal Reserve notes accepted).
| 26 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 3:18:19pm |
re: #24 Racer X
Echo chamber sure is quiet for a Friday evening.
;-)
If you want I can post some stuff about how it looks like our economy is doing better and only 20% of our over half a million new jobs are do to the census.
Would that make your evening?
| 27 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 3:18:29pm |
re: #26 jamesfirecat
If you want I can post some stuff about how it looks like our economy is doing better and only 20% of our over half a million new jobs are do to the census.
Would that make your evening?
Over quarter of a million new jobs!
| 28 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 3:18:37pm |
re: #25 Shiplord Kirel
Aaarrrghhh!
Megyn Kelly interviews Ron Paul on the Greece crisis.
Asked whether the crisis can spread to the US, Paul says,
"“Absolutely, there’s going to be anger. There’s going to be riots in the streets as well. But this is all a consequence of the fact of why and how government could spend like this. It’s because they don’t have sound money."
[Video]The perfect storm of crazy. Buy Gold! (Credit, debit and printed Federal Reserve notes accepted).
NUKE THE GOLD!
| 29 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 3:19:09pm |
Well the LGF cookbook didn't arrive today...I guess I can't wait
* Queue to some weird screen wipe *
Cookbook Dreaming....Mama's and Papa's
All the leaves are brown
(All the leaves are brown)
And the sky is gray.
(And the sky is gray).
I've been waiting for the cookbook
Waiting for the cookbook
(To arrive today)
On a springtime day.
(On a springtime day).
I'd be safe and warm
(I'd be safe and warm)
if I was in L.A.
(If I was in L.A.)
California cookbook'
(California cookbook') on such a springtime day.
Stopped in to a church I passed along the way.
Well I got down on my knees
(got down on my knees)
And I pretend to pray.
(I pretend to pray).
You know my mailman just likes to play.
(mailman likes the cold).
He knows I'm gonna stay.
(knows I'm gonna stay).
California cookbook'
(California cookbook) on such a springtime day.
| 30 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 3:19:31pm |
re: #28 Varek Raith
NUKE THE GOLD!
You're forgetting one thing. If I fail to report, 008 replaces me.
| 31 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 3:20:27pm |
re: #26 jamesfirecat
If you want I can post some stuff about how it looks like our economy is doing better and only 20% of our over half a million new jobs are do to the census.
Would that make your evening?
20%?
Fer reals?
| 32 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, May 7, 2010 3:20:38pm |
re: #25 Shiplord Kirel
Aaarrrghhh!
Megyn Kelly interviews Ron Paul on the Greece crisis.
Asked whether the crisis can spread to the US, Paul says,
"“Absolutely, there’s going to be anger. There’s going to be riots in the streets as well. But this is all a consequence of the fact of why and how government could spend like this. It’s because they don’t have sound money."[Video]
The perfect storm of crazy. Buy Gold! (Credit, debit and printed Federal Reserve notes accepted).
Buying gold seems like a really dumb idea to me. If the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and you are holding gold bullion as your hedge against economic disaster, who do you expect will have enough cash to buy it from you?
| 33 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 3:21:57pm |
re: #31 Racer X
20%?
Fer reals?
If you trust Washington Monthly...
[Link: www.washingtonmonthly.com...]
I did the math 290,000 new jobs, with 231,000 from the private sector = 59,000 census jobs = 59,000/290,000 = 0.20344 and some other fiddly bits.
| 35 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 3:22:17pm |
I'm waiting for the market to dip a little more. I didn't grab a few stocks I should have last time, and am hoping for a second chance.
Greedy capitalist bastard that I am.
| 36 |
jaunte Fri, May 7, 2010 3:23:16pm |
re: #29 HoosierHoops
While you wait, here's a few main dishes to anticipate:
Aglio e Olio
Alligator Jambalaya
Baked Parmesan Chicken
Bang Cock, Pat Thigh, Rinse/Lather/Repeat (pad thai)
Beef with Cactus Pieces
Blue Monday Fettuccine
Braised Osso Bucco
Cajun ‘Popcorn’ shrimp
Cajun Chicken Pasta
Caribbean Lamb Curry
Champagne Shrimp
Cheese Blintzes
Chello (Persian Rice)
Chicken Alfredo Lasagna
Chicken Cacciatore.
Chicken Fried Rice
Chicken Shwarma
Chicken Tikka
Chileqillas (Mexican Lasagna)
Chinese Barbecued Pork
Crawfish/Shrimp Etouffee
Eggs a la Madame Begue
Haggis Pakora
Hot Chicken Curry
Israeli Fried Chicken
Jamaican Jerk Barbecued Ribs
Khoreshe Gheymeh
Khoresht-e Fesenjan (Chicken or duck in pomegranate sauce)
Khoresht-e Ghormeh Sabzi (Stewed lamb with black-eyed peas)
Kiteroo's Ziploc Omelets
Lamb Vindaloo
Lamb Roast, Big Papa style
Lasagna di BubbleheadII
Latkes (potato pancakes)
Lemon-Prosciutto Risotto
...and that's just main dishes up to "L"
| 37 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 3:24:00pm |
re: #35 Racer X
I'm waiting for the market to dip a little more. I didn't grab a few stocks I should have last time, and am hoping for a second chance.
Greedy capitalist bastard that I am.
Did you try typing all "b"s into an Entrade order just to see what happens? :p
| 38 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 7, 2010 3:24:27pm |
re: #32 _RememberTonyC
Buying gold seems like a really dumb idea to me. If the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and you are holding gold bullion as your hedge against economic disaster, who do you expect will have enough cash to buy it from you?
Er, Tony, I'm not really a gold bug though it I had any I would cheerfully sell it for enough of what Paul calls counterfeit fiat money.
See here.
| 39 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 7, 2010 3:24:41pm |
re: #25 Shiplord Kirel
Aaarrrghhh!
Megyn Kelly interviews Ron Paul on the Greece crisis.
Asked whether the crisis can spread to the US, Paul says,
"“Absolutely, there’s going to be anger. There’s going to be riots in the streets as well. But this is all a consequence of the fact of why and how government could spend like this. It’s because they don’t have sound money."
[Video]The perfect storm of crazy. Buy Gold! (Credit, debit and printed Federal Reserve notes accepted).
Yeah, Ron Paul has been predicting civil unrest here for a while. It's why the militias and Tea Parties love him so much.
| 40 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 3:25:18pm |
re: #28 Varek Raith
NUKE THE GOLD!
wan't one of the Jame Bond movies about that? it's been a long time...
| 41 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 3:26:01pm |
re: #40 brookly red
wan't one of the Jame Bond movies about that? it's been a long time...
Do you expect me to talk?
| 42 |
Neutral President Fri, May 7, 2010 3:26:28pm |
| 43 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 3:26:34pm |
re: #32 _RememberTonyC
Buying gold seems like a really dumb idea to me. If the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and you are holding gold bullion as your hedge against economic disaster, who do you expect will have enough cash to buy it from you?
cash? no, no, beer...
| 44 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 3:27:16pm |
re: #40 brookly red
wan't one of the Jame Bond movies about that? it's been a long time...
Gold Finger, the Chineses (although they didn't ever identify them, but they sure looked purposefully Chinese).
| 45 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 3:30:33pm |
re: #35 Racer X
I'm waiting for the market to dip a little more. I didn't grab a few stocks I should have last time, and am hoping for a second chance.
Greedy capitalist bastard that I am.
/wait another week and by Greece...
| 46 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 3:31:14pm |
re: #32 _RememberTonyC
Buying gold seems like a really dumb idea to me. If the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and you are holding gold bullion as your hedge against economic disaster, who do you expect will have enough cash to buy it from you?
You've got it all wrong. When the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and society goes down the tubes, you don't sell your gold for cash.
You take that gold ingot you bought for $1200 and trade it for a pound of rice and a roll of toilet paper.
/BUY GOLD!
| 47 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 3:32:11pm |
re: #36 jaunte
While you wait, here's a few main dishes to anticipate:
Aglio e Olio
Alligator Jambalaya
(I ate Alligator tail once..Tastes like chicken! Not! Tasted like a dog's chew toy)
Baked Parmesan Chicken
(5 stars I'm sure)
Bang Cock, Pat Thigh, Rinse/Lather/Repeat (pad thai)
( The first XXX recipe at LGF)
Beef with Cactus Pieces
Blue Monday Fettuccine
Braised Osso Bucco
Cajun ‘Popcorn’ shrimp
Cajun Chicken Pasta
( Drooling )
Caribbean Lamb Curry
(I have never eat'n lamb..Save the lamb!)
Champagne Shrimp
(Tailgating on a Sunday morning...That's what I'm talking about!)
*wink*
| 48 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 3:32:14pm |
re: #46 Slumbering Behemoth
You've got it all wrong. When the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and society goes down the tubes, you don't sell your gold for cash.
You take that gold ingot you bought for $1200 and trade it for a pound of rice and a roll of toilet paper.
/BUY GOLD!
No you fool, gold is heavy, you walk up poor fool with the rice, use the shininess of the gold to blind him and then slam the gold brick into his face and while he's out cold take the rice and run!
| 49 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:32:40pm |
re: #44 ausador
I just happened to reread the book of Goldfinger.
They're supposed to be Korean.
BTW, Ian Fleming REALLY hates Koreans for some reason.
| 50 |
wrenchwench Fri, May 7, 2010 3:33:16pm |
re: #25 Shiplord Kirel
I do believe Luap Nor said the US government is going to fall.
I also believe he has been going way too far with the eyebrow plucking. His right one is almost gone.
| 51 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 7, 2010 3:33:41pm |
re: #40 brookly red
wan't one of the Jame Bond movies about that? it's been a long time...
And which lizardoid has the same make of car as Goldfinger? Anyone wonder why? Buwaahaahaa!
| 52 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 3:34:40pm |
Oh and BTW, excellent polemic Mr. Brown.
| 53 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 3:34:51pm |
OK as to atheism and montheism and isms in general.
The critiques of atheists to religion are necessary. They force religious people to stay honest. However, ironicly, any statement about a deity existing or not is a faith based statement. If one believes in God, the atheist will go on and on about how there is no proof for God. Very well... That is why it is called faith.
However, a definitive statement that God does not exist also is made in the absence of proof - and must always remain unproven since lack of observation can never prove lack of existence.
The irony is the athiest who gets himself in a bunch over this is being just as much a fundamentalist as those he excoriates and for the exact same philosophical reasons.
If you want to get scientific and say that faith is not scientific, you are correct. That is why it is called faith. Again ironicly, there is no scientific reason to definitively say God does not exist. The atheist who chortles about how enlightened he is by "disproving" God has no data to do so.Again, he is arguing his faith.
The only actually scientific stance on the question is agnosticism.
But this is all a side show. The excesses and horrors perpetrated by religious people are terrible to list and impossible to deny. Of course the same could be said about atheists as well. Last I checked the Khmer Rouge and the Red Army and the Chinese Army and the Cultural revolution were all atheist movements. Come to think of it, Imperial Japan was not a religious order either - nor were the Nazis.
From this we can conclude that the horrors of history have more to do with the way that people abuse their beliefs than what those beliefs actually are.
The end argument for thinking people to make, IMHO is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A good debate with a thinking atheist keeps religious folks like me smart and like all philosophical debates helps me to refine my arguments and thoughts. I ask that the other side remember that not every religious statement is horrible a-priori and the many of the teachings that would also be wiped away if you got rid of the whole enterprise, are things you might actually also admire - things like: social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals.
| 54 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:36:16pm |
re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote
Something I've wanted to say since the last time this came up.
"The real pure science position is agnostic, not atheist."
Now I feel better.
| 55 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:36:37pm |
| 56 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 3:37:45pm |
re: #54 windsagio
Something I've wanted to say since the last time this came up.
"The real pure science position is agnostic, not atheist."
Now I feel better.
Does science have to be agnostic about pink space unicorns? Flying spaghetti monsters?
| 57 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:38:56pm |
re: #56 Varek Raith
yup.
You can play the probabilities, but saying they absolutely cannot exist simply isn't scientific.
Also OT: Lol, that stupid Flag thread is still drawing nutjobs.
| 58 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 3:39:03pm |
re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote
However, a definitive statement that God does not exist also is made in the absence of proof - and must always remain unproven since lack of observation can never prove lack of existence.
I think this is proof of the existence of unicorns. I hear they're tasty.
| 59 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 3:39:39pm |
re: #57 windsagio
yup.
You can play the probabilities, but saying they absolutely cannot exist simply isn't scientific.
Also OT: Lol, that stupid Flag thread is still drawing nutjobs.
Heh, that thread is crazy.
| 60 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 7, 2010 3:39:57pm |
re: #56 Varek Raith
Does science have to be agnostic about pink space unicorns? Flying spaghetti monsters?
A girl my dim-bulb cousin used to date was a math atheist. In particular, she thought algebra was a hoax because a letter could not be a number. The rest of us were apparently just dupes for believing in it.
| 61 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:40:10pm |
re: #58 Slumbering Behemoth
I think this is proof of the existence of unicorns. I hear they're tasty.
| 62 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 3:41:20pm |
re: #56 Varek Raith
Does science have to be agnostic about pink space unicorns? Flying spaghetti monsters?
/every time I hear the term "Flying spaghetti monster" I am reminded of this argument I once had with an Italian woman...
well actually IIRC it was linguine, but close enough.
| 63 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 3:41:30pm |
re: #60 Shiplord Kirel
A girl my dim-bulb cousin used to date was a math atheist. In particular, she thought algebra was a hoax because a letter could not be a number. The rest of us were apparently just dupes for believing in it.
Lol, don't get me started on imaginary numbers!
/
| 64 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 3:41:41pm |
re: #60 Shiplord Kirel
A girl my dim-bulb cousin used to date was a math atheist. In particular, she thought algebra was a hoax because a letter could not be a number. The rest of us were apparently just dupes for believing in it.
We should have another one based on whatever current developing event about the entire thing is most most interesting, tommorow . Charles doesn't tend to do many posts on Saturday's and that one could keep us busy for quite a while. I could even invite my newly registered brother to join in the fun!
| 65 |
Obdicut Fri, May 7, 2010 3:41:42pm |
re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote
A definitive statement that impossible things do not exist, however, is an acceptable one.
And I think that you're underestimating the importance of the synthesis of Buddhism and Shintoism that was in Imperial Japan, if you're referring to WWII. Given that the status of Emperor as divine was one of the sticky points in negotiation, WWII Imperial Japan definitely had religion as a large component of its culture.
. I ask that the other side remember that not every religious statement is horrible a-priori and the many of the teachings that would also be wiped away if you got rid of the whole enterprise, are things you might actually also admire - things like: social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals.
None of those are religious statements. They are often statements made by religious people, derived from what they believe god-- or whomever-- wants. But in so far as you have written them, they contain no religious elements.
There's great wisdom in the religious texts; you're absolutely right about that. Everyone should read the Bible, though skimming in Kings is acceptable.
Everyone should also read the Bhagavad Gita, I think.
| 66 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 3:42:39pm |
re: #60 Shiplord Kirel
A girl my dim-bulb cousin used to date was a math atheist. In particular, she thought algebra was a hoax because a letter could not be a number. The rest of us were apparently just dupes for believing in it.
I dated that girl, I think. Was she also into tarot and astrology?
| 67 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 3:43:00pm |
re: #60 Shiplord Kirel
A girl my dim-bulb cousin used to date was a math atheist. In particular, she thought algebra was a hoax because a letter could not be a number. The rest of us were apparently just dupes for believing in it.
try estimating your income @ y dollars & see if the IRS believes in it either...
| 68 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 3:43:38pm |
re: #56 Varek Raith
Does science have to be agnostic about pink space unicorns? Flying spaghetti monsters?
Science is agnostic about alien life... Why could something that looks like a pink unicorn not exist somewhere else? Same for spaghetti monsters.
No data means no data.
Now if I told you that the spaghetti monster, came to times square every Tuesday at noon and fondled girls with his noodlely appendages, that is a measurable and falsifiable claim. There is no need to be agnostic about that.
If I told you that pink unicorns created the magnetic field, when you can go an measure mag fields and know all about moving charges and what relativistic effects do to electric fields, again, I would be SOL.
However, religions only get in trouble when their more stupid adherrents try to ignore facts and evidence.
If you want to say that there are lots of really obnoxious and dumb religious people, I will be right with you. Just be scientific about how you say it and don't forget all the really shitty non-believers out there too.
| 69 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 3:44:18pm |
re: #66 Slumbering Behemoth
I dated that girl, I think. Was she also into tarot and astrology?
/we all dated TAHT girl....
| 70 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 3:44:27pm |
re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote
Science is agnostic about alien life... Why could something that looks like a pink unicorn not exist somewhere else? Same for spaghetti monsters.
No data means no data.
Now if I told you that the spaghetti monster, came to times square every Tuesday at noon and fondled girls with his noodlely appendages, that is a measurable and falsifiable claim. There is no need to be agnostic about that.
If I told you that pink unicorns created the magnetic field, when you can go an measure mag fields and know all about moving charges and what relativistic effects do to electric fields, again, I would be SOL.
However, religions only get in trouble when their more stupid adherrents try to ignore facts and evidence.
If you want to say that there are lots of really obnoxious and dumb religious people, I will be right with you. Just be scientific about how you say it and don't forget all the really shitty non-believers out there too.
I'm just being somewhat annoying.
:)
| 71 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:45:25pm |
re: #70 Varek Raith
Haha good to admit it, I hate the spaghetti monster thing because its outright mockery, and that's not really so cool.
I can say something 'cuz you're upfront about it :D
| 72 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 3:45:51pm |
re: #65 Obdicut
Everyone should read the Bible, though skimming in Kings is acceptable.
I will now read aloud the most humorous portions of the book of Job.
*Ahem*
Well I'm done....
| 73 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 3:46:23pm |
re: #71 windsagio
Haha good to admit it, I hate the spaghetti monster thing because its outright mockery, and that's not really so cool.
I can say something 'cuz you're upfront about it :D
This is what happens when I'm bored.
| 74 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 3:46:28pm |
re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote
If I told you that pink unicorns created the magnetic field...
OMG! So that's how fuckin' magnets work? What a relief, that's had me puzzled for some time.
| 75 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 3:47:35pm |
re: #72 jamesfirecat
I will now read aloud the most humorous portions of the book of Job.
*Ahem*
Well I'm done...
Has the Jesus cartoon show been discussed yet?
| 76 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:48:28pm |
re: #73 Varek Raith
Want me to find you some 'blow the girls clothes off' breakout games for you?
| 78 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 3:48:42pm |
re: #75 brookly red
oh, responded to the wrong post...sorry.
| 79 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 3:49:01pm |
re: #72 jamesfirecat
I will now read aloud the most humorous portions of the book of Job.
*Ahem*
Well I'm done...
Ur doin it rong.
The Book of Job can be funny, you just have to narrate it properly.
| 80 |
wrenchwench Fri, May 7, 2010 3:49:28pm |
I ask that the other side remember that not every religious statement is horrible a-priori and the many of the teachings that would also be wiped away if you got rid of the whole enterprise, are things you might actually also admire - things like: social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals.
This presumes that, as an atheist, I want to get rid of the whole enterprise. I don't care whether you and all the other religious folk continue your practice. It also assumes that "social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals" can't exist outside of the religious enterprises. Not true.
I don't mind anyone saying my belief that there is no god is a "belief", but I think it's incorrect to say that "faith" is part of it. There may be a god, there may not. I don't even have faith that I'll find out after I die.
Just my 2 drachma.
| 81 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 3:49:31pm |
re: #65 Obdicut
A definitive statement that impossible things do not exist, however, is an acceptable one.
You can not definitively say that God is impossible.
And I think that you're underestimating the importance of the synthesis of Buddhism and Shintoism that was in Imperial Japan, if you're referring to WWII. Given that the status of Emperor as divine was one of the sticky points in negotiation, WWII Imperial Japan definitely had religion as a large component of its culture.
OK fine, say I give to you... You still have to find a way to make the Maoists, Stalinist, Khmer Rouge and Nazis religious. Good luck with that.
None of those are religious statements.
Those are all actually direct commandments. You are just wrong on that.
There's great wisdom in the religious texts; you're absolutely right about that. Everyone should read the Bible, though skimming in Kings is acceptable.
Lol, Kings does get a little dry in some places, but it some of the most historically verified accounting in the whole Bible.
Everyone should also read the Bhagavad Gita, I think.
And if you know some kaballah when you do, it is especially fascinating.
| 82 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 3:49:46pm |
Just got back from the bargain movie house... a movie recommendation...
Don't waste you money on "Shutter Island."
| 83 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 3:49:56pm |
re: #77 windsagio
Which one? Flying house?
the one planned by comedy central... don't know anything else about it except it is making some people crazy.
| 84 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:50:42pm |
re: #81 LudwigVanQuixote
I thought Kings was okay, I didn't like the (�(*#@$ lists.
| 85 |
Shiplord Kirel Fri, May 7, 2010 3:50:52pm |
re: #66 Slumbering Behemoth
I dated that girl, I think. Was she also into tarot and astrology?
As a matter of fact she was.
I briefly dated one who had the full catalog of New Age delusions beliefs. She became wildly enthusiastic when I happened to tell her that I had been born in Salisbury England on the twenty-first of June. She realized that this was within sight of Stonehenge (if you climbed a high steeple), on midsummers day no less, and could only mean that I had some kind of enormously developed paranormal powers. She blankly replied, "Oh." when I told her I did not even believe in such things. The relationship deteriorated from there, not that it had been much of anywhere anyway.
| 86 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:52:03pm |
re: #80 wrenchwench
The interesting thing is that its important to you that you don't have "Faith".
I'm sure that means something, but have no idea what :D
| 87 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 3:52:27pm |
re: #54 windsagio
Something I've wanted to say since the last time this came up.
"The real pure science position is agnostic, not atheist."
Now I feel better.
Nope.
| 88 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:53:06pm |
re: #87 b_sharp
I am hugely surprised at your position :P
The one to take it up with is Ludwig tho', if you dare :D
| 89 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:53:52pm |
| 90 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 3:54:29pm |
Shifting gears, we have yet another deep scientific insight from the wingnuts:
millions of people have and will smoke their entire lives without getting lung cancer, it can never be booked as a definate encarcinogen.
But remember these folks know that AGW is not real. Of course the memes used by the tobacco companies were the same ones used against AGW and Evolution by the same sorts of lobby groups. Their garbage was bought by the same sorts of idiots. The same GOP politicians throw it all out ass red meat and legitimatize it.
| 91 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 3:54:39pm |
Hmmm, I may yet get a FTL Drive after all...
;)
| 92 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 3:55:03pm |
re: #85 Shiplord Kirel
Either it's the same gal, or gals like that are a dime a dozen.
Mine broke when I laughed at her for honestly believing the baloney about how a tarot reader is supposed to acquire their cards. And the astrology stuff.
| 93 |
Obdicut Fri, May 7, 2010 3:55:49pm |
re: #81 LudwigVanQuixote
You can not definitively say that God is impossible.
I can definitely say that every well-defined God I've ever been presented with was impossible or would have no possible way of interacting with the world.
But you've read Dennett, so you basically know what my thesis on that would be so I needn't reproduce it here.
OK fine, say I give to you... You still have to find a way to make the Maoists, Stalinist, Khmer Rouge and Nazis religious. Good luck with that.
Why do I have to find a way to do that? I'm just pointing out that using Imperial Japan detracts from your argument; the larger point about it being corruption of belief, not belief itself, as the problem is perfectly true.
Those are all actually direct commandments. You are just wrong on that.
They may be direct commandments. But they are not religious. They involve nothing supernatural. They may exist in religions, as I said, or be said by religious people, but they are not sourced in religion. It is perfectly possible for an atheist to say and believe in all those things out of their own non-religious conception of humanity. I certainly believe and try to practice all of those things, while being an atheist.
Those statements do not depend on the existence of religion for their existence. The implication that they do is mildly insulting to atheists.
| 94 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:55:50pm |
re: #92 Slumbering Behemoth
If its the same gal, she sure gets around. I dated her too >>
| 95 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 3:56:22pm |
re: #90 LudwigVanQuixote
Shifting gears, we have yet another deep scientific insight from the wingnuts:
But remember these folks know that AGW is not real. Of course the memes used by the tobacco companies were the same ones used against AGW and Evolution by the same sorts of lobby groups. Their garbage was bought by the same sorts of idiots. The same GOP politicians throw it all out ass red meat and legitimatize it.
Glad to know that now then excuse me while I light up....
| 96 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 3:57:11pm |
re: #94 windsagio
If its the same gal, she sure gets around. I dated her too >>
Pfft, she's just a figment of your imaginations....
| 97 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 3:57:35pm |
re: #95 jamesfirecat
Geez, you can get three kinds of cancer from just looking at that picture.
| 99 |
Obdicut Fri, May 7, 2010 3:58:11pm |
re: #93 Obdicut
And I don't really consider debating the validity of atheism with religious people polite on my part, so I'm going to leave it there. Also< I have to go commute.
I recommend to everyone Daniel Dennet's book Darwin's Dangerous Idea, for the very best-presented arguments concerning atheism that I'm aware of.
And the book The Ball and the Cross, by G.K. Chesterton, for a very sweet religious conception of atheism.
| 100 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 3:58:32pm |
re: #95 jamesfirecat
I desperately wanted to find the 'Bill's Bazooka barfing' bloom county, but I totally failed >>
Stupid google.
| 101 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 3:58:33pm |
re: #96 Varek Raith
Pfft, she's just a figment of your imaginations...
Nope, she's real. I touched, tasted and smelled her. A lot.
| 102 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 3:59:02pm |
re: #89 windsagio
When cheap japanese animation and cutrate evangelical writing crosspollinate
I still wanna see "the 10 Commandments" in 3D...
| 104 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 3:59:35pm |
re: #90 LudwigVanQuixote
Shifting gears, we have yet another deep scientific insight from the wingnuts:
But remember these folks know that AGW is not real. Of course the memes used by the tobacco companies were the same ones used against AGW and Evolution by the same sorts of lobby groups. Their garbage was bought by the same sorts of idiots. The same GOP politicians throw it all out ass red meat and legitimatize it.
Well you have got to admit this is True..Millions will never get lung Cancer from smoking..They will drop from a heart attack way before that..
| 105 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:00:20pm |
re: #101 Slumbering Behemoth
Nope, she's real. I touched, tasted and smelled her. A lot.
uggg, that damned petchoulie oil....
| 106 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 4:00:20pm |
re: #102 brookly red
I still wanna see "the 10 Commandments" in 3D...
I'm still waiting for "Ten things I hate about Commandments..."
| 107 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:00:31pm |
Anyone who buys gold as their principal form of payment for the post-'pocalyptic polity is a poltroon.
Everyone knows the best thing is going to be silver dollars for major purchases and silver dimes for everyday shopping.
And you can get rolls of pre-debasement pure silver Roosevelt dimes for a very reasonable price.
When TSHTF, one of those dimes is likely to be worth at least ten of today's funny-money back-by-nothing-but-Chinese-debt dollar bills.
| 108 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:01:13pm |
re: #107 Cato the Elder
Anyone who buys gold as their principal form of payment for the post-'pocalyptic polity is a poltroon.
Everyone knows the best thing is going to be silver dollars for major purchases and silver dimes for everyday shopping.
And you can get rolls of pre-debasement pure silver Roosevelt dimes for a very reasonable price.
When TSHTF, one of those dimes is likely to be worth at least ten of today's funny-money back-by-nothing-but-Chinese-debt dollar bills.
No. Bottle caps.
Bottle caps.
| 109 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 4:01:19pm |
re: #57 windsagio
yup.
You can play the probabilities, but saying they absolutely cannot exist simply isn't scientific.
Also OT: Lol, that stupid Flag thread is still drawing nutjobs.
I think you have the wrong idea about what atheism is based on.
In science, if something has a high enough probability it is accepted as valid. An atheist says the same thing. The probability that an invisible giant teapot is not orbiting the Earth is high enough to be accepted as fact. The probability that a god does not exist is high enough that it can be accepted as fact.
| 110 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:01:30pm |
The subject is shifting, but one last 'seriously effed up childrens animation that has something to do with religion'
| 111 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 4:02:05pm |
re: #105 brookly red
uggg, that damned petchoulie oil...
What do you take me for? I would never date a woman who wore that. The only granola I eat is the kind that goes in a cereal bowl.
| 112 |
wrenchwench Fri, May 7, 2010 4:02:38pm |
re: #86 windsagio
The interesting thing is that its important to you that you don't have "Faith".
I'm sure that means something, but have no idea what :D
It's not very important, I'm just pointing out what I think is incorrect. I'm sure I operate on faith in many things, like that the laws of physics aren't going to change when I apply the brakes on my bike.
| 113 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:02:38pm |
re: #93 Obdicut
Those statements do not depend on the existence of religion for their existence. The implication that they do is mildly insulting to atheists.
I hope I am more than just mildly insulting to atheists of the dogmatic Dawkinsian stamp.
If I haven't been up to now, I shall have to try harder.
| 114 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, May 7, 2010 4:02:48pm |
| 115 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:03:52pm |
re: #113 Cato the Elder
Just tell them they have a faith, or even better are part of the 'atheist religion'.
Then step back to keep the spittle off of your nice dinner jacket.
| 116 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:04:10pm |
re: #93 Obdicut
I can definitely say that every well-defined God I've ever been presented with was impossible or would have no possible way of interacting with the world.
Which is why Jewish Tradition, through Rambam, goes on about only being able to ascribe what God is not if you are discussing His actual attributes.
But you've read Dennett, so you basically know what my thesis on that would be so I needn't reproduce it here.
But you've read Guide for the Perplexed, so I need not replicate that either.
They may be direct commandments. But they are not religious. They involve nothing supernatural.
I do not understand how you can say that. They are direct commandments from God as far as the religion is concerned. God certainly counts as supernatural.
They may exist in religions, as I said, or be said by religious people, but they are not sourced in religion. It is perfectly possible for an atheist to say and believe in all those things out of their own non-religious conception of humanity. I certainly believe and try to practice all of those things, while being an atheist.
I never said that being an atheist makes you a bad person, nor did I imply it. However, since the believer can claim that those notions are literally woven into the structure of the creation - as manifested by the will of a creator, they have more authority than the utilitarian arguments that an atheist is forced to use to justify them.
Those statements do not depend on the existence of religion for their existence
Correct, but they do have more "punch" the religious way.
The implication that they do is mildly insulting to atheists.
I never implied that.
| 117 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:05:24pm |
re: #115 windsagio
Just tell them they have a faith, or even better are part of the 'atheist religion'.
Then step back to keep the spittle off of your nice dinner jacket.
If that's what floats your boat.
:P
| 118 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:05:30pm |
re: #107 Cato the Elder
last I checked the melt weight value was 12x the face value...
| 119 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:06:05pm |
re: #117 Varek Raith
If that's what floats your boat.
:P
Its more the bee up my bonnet :D
Were you around for my 'I hate exceptionalism' rant?
| 120 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:06:25pm |
re: #110 windsagio
The subject is shifting, but one last 'seriously effed up childrens animation that has something to do with religion'
[Video]
WTF is this shit.
| 121 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:06:54pm |
re: #120 Varek Raith
Somebody was on seconal I think.
The original story is dark, but not THAT dark.
| 122 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 4:08:35pm |
re: #116 LudwigVanQuixote
However, since the believer can claim that those notions are literally woven into the structure of the creation - as manifested by the will of a creator, they have more authority than the utilitarian arguments that an atheist is forced to use to justify them.
Self justifying argument.
| 123 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:10:22pm |
| 124 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:10:48pm |
re: #121 windsagio
Somebody was on seconal I think.
The original story is dark, but not THAT dark.
Heh, that was freaking awesome.
| 125 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 4:10:57pm |
re: #107 Cato the Elder
Anyone who buys gold as their principal form of payment for the post-'pocalyptic polity is a poltroon.
Everyone knows the best thing is going to be silver dollars for major purchases and silver dimes for everyday shopping.
And you can get rolls of pre-debasement pure silver Roosevelt dimes for a very reasonable price.
When TSHTF, one of those dimes is likely to be worth at least ten of today's funny-money back-by-nothing-but-Chinese-debt dollar bills.
"Time counts and keeps countin', and we knows now finding the trick of what's been and lost ain't no easy ride. But that's our trek, we gotta' travel it. And there ain't nobody knows where it's gonna' lead. Still in all, every night we does the tell, so that we 'member who we was and where we came from... but most of all we 'members the man that finded us, him that came the salvage. And we lights the city, not just for him, but for all of them that are still out there. 'Cause we knows there come a night, when they sees the distant light, and they'll be comin' home."
| 126 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 4:11:36pm |
re: #57 windsagio
yup.
You can play the probabilities, but saying they absolutely cannot exist simply isn't scientific.
Also OT: Lol, that stupid Flag thread is still drawing nutjobs.
A little more.
An agnostic says we can never really rule out the existence of a god because we cannot logically prove a negative so I will live my life as though there probably isn't such a thing, but I'll reserve a bit of space in my mind for a god just in case.
An atheist says we can rule out the existence of a god even though it is not possible to logically prove a negative because the preponderance of evidence shows a god is not only not necessary but not possible given the physical laws as we understand them. I will not bother reserving that bit of space because it would be a waste. However if the evidence changes, I will then make room, but the evidence will have to be spectacular and overturn all previous evidence against. I do not expect that to happen.
An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.
| 127 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 4:14:31pm |
re: #65 Obdicut
A definitive statement that impossible things do not exist, however, is an acceptable one.
And I think that you're underestimating the importance of the synthesis of Buddhism and Shintoism that was in Imperial Japan, if you're referring to WWII. Given that the status of Emperor as divine was one of the sticky points in negotiation, WWII Imperial Japan definitely had religion as a large component of its culture.
None of those are religious statements. They are often statements made by religious people, derived from what they believe god-- or whomever-- wants. But in so far as you have written them, they contain no religious elements.
There's great wisdom in the religious texts; you're absolutely right about that. Everyone should read the Bible, though skimming in Kings is acceptable.
Everyone should also read the Bhagavad Gita, I think.
Ha!
I found 'Time Enough for Love' quite enough, thank you.
(BTW, I read the Bible at 12, and the BG >30 years ago.)
| 128 |
lostlakehiker Fri, May 7, 2010 4:15:27pm |
re: #32 _RememberTonyC
Buying gold seems like a really dumb idea to me. If the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and you are holding gold bullion as your hedge against economic disaster, who do you expect will have enough cash to buy it from you?
Buying gold at today's prices is probably a bad idea. But gold has a good track record as a store of value. It doesn't spoil, it's compact enough that you can hold it without needing a warehouse, it's portable, and it's impossible to counterfeit.
So let's say we have another Jimmy Carter style inflation, but prolonged. Money loses 15 to 20% of its purchasing power a year. You might invest in stocks, or collectible comic books, but gold is likely to hold up fairly well. As to who will have the cash to buy your gold, the problem would be that everybody is flush with cash but unfortunately it doesn't seem to go as far as it used to.
This kind of inflation is bad for the economy. It leads to misdirected efforts and waste. But those who hold gold get hurt less than those who hold dollars in a bank account.
Who can say whether that's what's in store? If fiat money holds up in value, paper money and bank accounts will be a better way to save than buying gold when you have spare cash, selling it when you lack cash.
| 129 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 4:16:03pm |
re: #69 brookly red
/we all dated TAHT girl...
I am that girl. Oops sorry, I'm not a girl. But I do have a set of Tarot cards.
| 130 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:17:11pm |
re: #122 Naso Tang
Self justifying argument.
Well, I am not going to argue the other side.
However, it is not an invalid argument either. The argument that you refrain from killing Larry when he is annoying because Larry has incalculable worth endowed by the fabric of creation itself, is much stronger than you don't kill Larry in order to prevent Larry's friends from killing you or because you think Larry is useful even though annoying.
| 132 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:17:46pm |
re: #118 brookly red
last I checked the melt weight value was 12x the face value...
Which is why you want your silver in small chunks. Cuttin' up silver dollars to pay for stuff is a pain. Silver dimes, by that reckoning, would each be worth $1.20. But that's pre-TSHTF, and I'd imagine that once the Almighty Worthless Paper Dollar becomes birdcage lining, today's dollar valuations would quickly become meaningless.
Of course another thing that may become readily tradeable - in one sense or the other - is ammo.
| 133 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:17:47pm |
re: #130 LudwigVanQuixote
And everyone knows, Larry is damn annoying.
| 134 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 4:17:53pm |
re: #128 lostlakehiker
Buying gold at today's prices is probably a bad idea. But gold has a good track record as a store of value. It doesn't spoil, it's compact enough that you can hold it without needing a warehouse, it's portable, and it's impossible to counterfeit.
So let's say we have another Jimmy Carter style inflation, but prolonged. Money loses 15 to 20% of its purchasing power a year. You might invest in stocks, or collectible comic books, but gold is likely to hold up fairly well. As to who will have the cash to buy your gold, the problem would be that everybody is flush with cash but unfortunately it doesn't seem to go as far as it used to.
This kind of inflation is bad for the economy. It leads to misdirected efforts and waste. But those who hold gold get hurt less than those who hold dollars in a bank account.
Who can say whether that's what's in store? If fiat money holds up in value, paper money and bank accounts will be a better way to save than buying gold when you have spare cash, selling it when you lack cash.
re: #128 lostlakehiker
Buying gold at today's prices is probably a bad idea. But gold has a good track record as a store of value. It doesn't spoil, it's compact enough that you can hold it without needing a warehouse, it's portable, and it's impossible to counterfeit.
So let's say we have another Jimmy Carter style inflation, but prolonged. Money loses 15 to 20% of its purchasing power a year. You might invest in stocks, or collectible comic books, but gold is likely to hold up fairly well. As to who will have the cash to buy your gold, the problem would be that everybody is flush with cash but unfortunately it doesn't seem to go as far as it used to.
This kind of inflation is bad for the economy. It leads to misdirected efforts and waste. But those who hold gold get hurt less than those who hold dollars in a bank account.
Who can say whether that's what's in store? If fiat money holds up in value, paper money and bank accounts will be a better way to save than buying gold when you have spare cash, selling it when you lack cash.
I don't see it in store at the moment too many people seem to use the dollar as a benchmark of value to let it inflate much. Other currencies rise in value above it (Pound worth $2, Canada dollar equal to American dollar which is a form of defacto inflation if you go abroad) but the dollar itself doesn't seem to be inflating here at home...
| 135 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 4:18:24pm |
re: #126 b_sharp
A little more.
An agnostic says we can never really rule out the existence of a god because we cannot logically prove a negative so I will live my life as though there probably isn't such a thing, but I'll reserve a bit of space in my mind for a god just in case.
An atheist says we can rule out the existence of a god even though it is not possible to logically prove a negative because the preponderance of evidence shows a god is not only not necessary but not possible given the physical laws as we understand them. I will not bother reserving that bit of space because it would be a waste. However if the evidence changes, I will then make room, but the evidence will have to be spectacular and overturn all previous evidence against. I do not expect that to happen.
An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.
Sorry I think you have it wrong...All scientists should on the face of it be agnostic...Look everybody knows the first Rainbow wasn't 6000 years ago..Light have passed through water particles for Billions of years...Yes there was a rainbow long before Noah..It's a fable my friends..
That doesn't mean there isn't God..The Lord Almighty...You don't get to prove God in Science...And by keeping it separate Mankind as made wonderful strides in Science...
| 136 |
Neutral President Fri, May 7, 2010 4:18:29pm |
re: #126 b_sharp
A little more.
An agnostic says we can never really rule out the existence of a god because we cannot logically prove a negative so I will live my life as though there probably isn't such a thing, but I'll reserve a bit of space in my mind for a god just in case.
An atheist says we can rule out the existence of a god even though it is not possible to logically prove a negative because the preponderance of evidence shows a god is not only not necessary but not possible given the physical laws as we understand them. I will not bother reserving that bit of space because it would be a waste. However if the evidence changes, I will then make room, but the evidence will have to be spectacular and overturn all previous evidence against. I do not expect that to happen.
An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.
That a bit of arrogant presumption on your part. A literal version of God as presented in various religious texts might fall into that category. Outside of those definitions we can narrow it down to a force/entity responsible for creation of reality/the universe/etc. That is likely to be something that is beyond human comprehension (much as quantum mechanics would be to a lemur), for which you don't even know what evidence for it would be. Such a thing cant be matter-of-fact said to be impossible due to physical laws.
| 137 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:18:50pm |
re: #132 Cato the Elder
Which is why you want your silver in small chunks. Cuttin' up silver dollars to pay for stuff is a pain. Silver dimes, by that reckoning, would each be worth $1.20. But that's pre-TSHTF, and I'd imagine that once the Almighty Worthless Paper Dollar becomes birdcage lining, today's dollar valuations would quickly become meaningless.
Of course another thing that may become readily tradeable - in one sense or the other - is ammo.
hence the shortage...
| 138 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:19:04pm |
| 139 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:19:25pm |
re: #115 windsagio
Just tell them they have a faith, or even better are part of the 'atheist religion'.
Then step back to keep the spittle off of your nice dinner jacket.
Well, if they don't, why do so many insist on capitalizing "Atheist" and "Atheism"?
Things that make you go "hmm"...
| 140 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:20:03pm |
| 141 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 4:20:55pm |
re: #139 Cato the Elder
Well, if they don't, why do so many insist on capitalizing "Atheist" and "Atheism"?
Things that make you go "hmm"...
I never capitalize it, except at the beginning of a sentence. Why would you, it's not a proper noun, is it?
| 142 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:20:55pm |
re: #126 b_sharp
An atheist says we can rule out the existence of a god even though it is not possible to logically prove a negative because the preponderance of evidence shows a god is not only not necessary but not possible given the physical laws as we understand them.
If physical laws as we understand them allowed yu to make this claim, you would have a point. However,they do not. How do Maxwell's equations or QM or SR or chemistry or biology rule out God?
You've made a very bold statement. How do you support it?
I will not bother reserving that bit of space because it would be a waste. However if the evidence changes, I will then make room, but the evidence will have to be spectacular and overturn all previous evidence against. I do not expect that to happen.OK that is fair, but what physical, measurable, scientific evidence do you have against Him?
An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.
Not unless you can back up your remarkable claim.
| 143 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, May 7, 2010 4:21:21pm |
re: #110 windsagio
The subject is shifting, but one last 'seriously effed up childrens animation that has something to do with religion'
[Video]
That was seriously fucked up.
| 144 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:21:24pm |
re: #139 Cato the Elder
Because its not rational. The whole point is in believing that they're different and better, which is the source of my discontent.
| 146 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:21:54pm |
re: #143 Alouette
That was seriously fucked up.
It was seriously awesome.
Or am I just messed up???
:)
| 147 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:22:28pm |
re: #143 Alouette
and remember it was written for and marketed to children, and on Network TV!
| 148 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:22:45pm |
re: #146 Varek Raith
Both? Or maybe all 3 if you include what Aluette said :p
| 149 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:23:13pm |
re: #148 windsagio
Both? Or maybe all 3 if you include what Aluette said :p
Awesome. Three for the price of none!
| 150 |
allegro Fri, May 7, 2010 4:23:16pm |
re: #139 Cato the Elder
Well, if they don't, why do so many insist on capitalizing "Atheist" and "Atheism"?
I don't recall ever seeing one who does not accept the existence of a supreme being capitalize either of those words. Hmmm...
| 151 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 4:23:34pm |
re: #144 windsagio
Because its not rational. The whole point is in believing that they're different and better, which is the source of my discontent.
Who are these atheist you are talking about? Name names?
| 152 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:23:37pm |
re: #126 b_sharp
An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.
Mmm...warm and snuggly Science! Come a little closer, baby.
And fuck that slut, Truth.
| 153 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:24:07pm |
re: #152 Cato the Elder
Mmm...warm and snuggly Science! Come a little closer, baby.
And fuck that slut, Truth.
Lol.
| 154 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:24:54pm |
re: #151 Walter L. Newton
Do I have to? You're asking me to insult people ot their face :P
| 155 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:25:16pm |
| 156 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:25:16pm |
re: #65 Obdicut
Everyone should also read the Bhagavad Gita, I think.
There's a lovely little iPhone app that sings the Gita to you, verse by verse, first in Sanskrit and then in English translation.
| 157 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 4:25:43pm |
re: #81 LudwigVanQuixote
You can not definitively say that God is impossible.
So what? I don't need to have 100% proof of that, all I need is for the evidence to be convincing.
How small does the place a god, or God, could possibly hide have to be, before we accept that he/she/it doesn't exist? That God hiding place keeps getting smaller and smaller.
Why does the idea of a god/God have a different standard of disproof than everything else? The existence of Thor doesn't need to be 100% disproved for it to be rejected. Yahweh is no different.
| 158 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:26:13pm |
| 159 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:26:25pm |
re: #143 Alouette
That was seriously fucked up.
I am not admonishing you, but I have noticed a change in your use of language of late.
Too much nonsense going on?
| 160 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 4:27:14pm |
re: #88 windsagio
I am hugely surprised at your position :P
The one to take it up with is Ludwig tho', if you dare :D
Oh damn! When did I let the cat out of the bag? ;)
| 161 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:27:14pm |
re: #150 allegro
I don't recall ever seeing one who does not accept the existence of a supreme being capitalize either of those words. Hmmm...
I've seen it more times than I can count.
| 162 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 4:28:06pm |
re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote
Hi Ludwig! I shouldn't have said anything about God.. We have a wicked bad storm moving in with large cracks of lightning and Little Winston is under the bed..
We know Nature is not directed by human behavior but by Science...
Now..If the house gets hit by lightning..I may change my mind..
/
| 163 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, May 7, 2010 4:28:26pm |
re: #159 LudwigVanQuixote
I am not admonishing you, but I have noticed a change in your use of language of late.
Too much nonsense going on?
My kids are not around to tell me "Ma, I don't like it when you say 'fuck' on Little Green Footballs."
| 164 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:28:57pm |
re: #162 HoosierHoops
Hi Ludwig! I shouldn't have said anything about God.. We have a wicked bad storm moving in with large cracks of lightning and Little Winston is under the bed..
We know Nature is not directed by human behavior but by Science...
Now..If the house gets hit by lightning..I may change my mind..
/
It's because b_sharp dissed Thor...
| 165 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 4:29:44pm |
| 166 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 4:30:21pm |
re: #113 Cato the Elder
I hope I am more than just mildly insulting to atheists of the dogmatic Dawkinsian stamp.
If I haven't been up to now, I shall have to try harder.
Go for it.
| 167 |
avanti Fri, May 7, 2010 4:30:41pm |
Some of you may have noticed the dog that seems to be a the center of the action at the Greek riots, well, here's his Facebook page.
Riot dog.
"I live in Athens, in exarxeia and this dog is very famous and everybody feeds and loves this animal.BUT his name is LOUK,from Loukanikos a word that means sausage,because he used to eat sausages all the time.He lives on the street,he has no master and he, along with 4-5 other dogs comes to every demonstration here in Athens.You will find him every day in MESOLLOGIOU street,where ALEXANDROS GRIGOROPOULOS,a 15 year old student was shot by the police."
More at the link.
| 168 |
lostlakehiker Fri, May 7, 2010 4:31:26pm |
re: #53 LudwigVanQuixote
OK as to atheism and montheism and isms in general.
The critiques of atheists to religion are necessary. They force religious people to stay honest. However, ironicly, any statement about a deity existing or not is a faith based statement. If one believes in God, the atheist will go on and on about how there is no proof for God. Very well... That is why it is called faith.
However, a definitive statement that God does not exist also is made in the absence of proof - and must always remain unproven since lack of observation can never prove lack of existence.
The irony is the athiest who gets himself in a bunch over this is being just as much a fundamentalist as those he excoriates and for the exact same philosophical reasons.
If you want to get scientific and say that faith is not scientific, you are correct. That is why it is called faith. Again ironicly, there is no scientific reason to definitively say God does not exist. The atheist who chortles about how enlightened he is by "disproving" God has no data to do so.Again, he is arguing his faith.
The only actually scientific stance on the question is agnosticism.
But this is all a side show. The excesses and horrors perpetrated by religious people are terrible to list and impossible to deny. Of course the same could be said about atheists as well. Last I checked the Khmer Rouge and the Red Army and the Chinese Army and the Cultural revolution were all atheist movements. Come to think of it, Imperial Japan was not a religious order either - nor were the Nazis.
From this we can conclude that the horrors of history have more to do with the way that people abuse their beliefs than what those beliefs actually are.
The end argument for thinking people to make, IMHO is not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. A good debate with a thinking atheist keeps religious folks like me smart and like all philosophical debates helps me to refine my arguments and thoughts. I ask that the other side remember that not every religious statement is horrible a-priori and the many of the teachings that would also be wiped away if you got rid of the whole enterprise, are things you might actually also admire - things like: social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals.
Indeed. I'm in the camp of the jury that, when asked to render a verdict guilty or not guilty, returned the verdict not proved. Ethical humanism is a tough row to hoe. "We" owe a huge debt to religion. And here's a metaphor: what are "go" proverbs, anyhow? They're the religion of go players. Proverb believers play one way, free thinkers play another. Proverb believers tend to win. How's that? We absolutely know that "go" is just a game with a decision tree, that there are no "go" miracles, and that everything depends purely and entirely on "if he goes there and I go there then he can go there and that would lead to this" type reasoning. By rights, the scoffer should win. He's right. But---not really. Because although those proverbs are not literally divine commandments, they are the distilled wisdom of many centuries of champions and go teachers. Human minds are incapable of chasing down all the by-ways and intricacies of the he-goes-there-then-I-do-that approach to go. Thus, it is entirely possible that go proverbs are true in the sense that the believer plays better than the scoffer.
Likewise, it is entirely possible that even if there is no miracle worker in the background, that even if there is no God, these religious teachings are nevertheless true---in the sense that we would make less of a mess of our lives than we normally do if we treated them as true.
It is also possible that they're true because faith is a resonance with something real in a sense that physics cannot capture.
| 169 |
McSpiff Fri, May 7, 2010 4:31:38pm |
re: #130 LudwigVanQuixote
Natural selection selected those who were capable of forming social bonds, weeding out the mindless killers the best it can.
| 170 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 4:31:58pm |
re: #164 Varek Raith
It's because b_sharp dissed Thor...
If I get hit during the play-offs..Well I'll...
/So far so good..I can tell the power is going to go out..A couple of years in Indiana with these storms..You know shit is going down...
| 171 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:32:53pm |
re: #157 b_sharp
So what? I don't need to have 100% proof of that, all I need is for the evidence to be convincing.
What convincing evidence against God's existence do you have? That is all I ma asking. I am not asking for 100% evidence or even 5% evidence. What evidence at all, that is physical, measurable and scientific do you have against His existence do you have?
How small does the place a god, or God, could possibly hide have to be, before we accept that he/she/it doesn't exist? That God hiding place keeps getting smaller and smaller.
Respectfully, you are making sloppy work of Feynman's argument.
When Feynman made that argument he was more careful in what he said. If you mean that more and more of the physical world is explained by science as we go on, then yes of course. However, in his arguments he was referring to ancient pagans as examples - even though he falsely extended it to monotheists. If you are a pagan and you worship natural phenomena, then yes indeed, science is going to come and clean your clock, because natural phenomena are subject to scientific investigation.
But that does not apply to God as conceived by monotheism.
Why does the idea of a god/God have a different standard of disproof than everything else? The existence of Thor doesn't need to be 100% disproved for it to be rejected. Yahweh is no different.
Thor is a god of thunder. Thunder is a natural phenomena caused by the interactions of electromagnetism and fluid dynamics. God is conceived as the creator of those physical principles. Hence there is no contradiction in the case of God.
| 172 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:33:27pm |
re: #163 Alouette
My kids are not around to tell me "Ma, I don't like it when you say 'fuck' on Little Green Footballs."
I do adore you. I just want to be clear.
| 173 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:33:27pm |
re: #157 b_sharp
So what? I don't need to have 100% proof of that, all I need is for the evidence to be convincing.
How small does the place a god, or God, could possibly hide have to be, before we accept that he/she/it doesn't exist? That God hiding place keeps getting smaller and smaller.
Why does the idea of a god/God have a different standard of disproof than everything else? The existence of Thor doesn't need to be 100% disproved for it to be rejected. Yahweh is no different.
If I come to die and find myself turned away from Valhalla by Thor along with all the other deluded Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Animists, Pantheists and the rest, I will at least be able to take comfort in the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Atheists amongst the crowd.
| 174 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:34:17pm |
re: #173 Cato the Elder
If I come to die and find myself turned away from Valhalla by Thor along with all the other deluded Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Animists, Pantheists and the rest, I will at least be able to take comfort in the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Atheists amongst the crowd.
I'd roflmao.
| 175 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:35:19pm |
re: #169 McSpiff
Natural selection selected those who were capable of forming social bonds, weeding out the mindless killers the best it can.
What about the social bonds used to kill other groups? You have to be very careful with the minefield (no pun intended) that line of reasoning goes down.
I agree that there is a selective pressure on our species to maintain group bonds. However, that does not remove the possibility that God intended it that way.
| 176 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:37:27pm |
re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote
What about the social bonds used to kill other groups? You have to be very careful with the minefield (no pun intended) that line of reasoning goes down.
I agree that there is a selective pressure on our species to maintain group bonds. However, that does not remove the possibility that God intended it that way.
one of your better IMO.
| 177 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:38:58pm |
re: #173 Cato the Elder
If I come to die and find myself turned away from Valhalla by Thor along with all the other deluded Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Animists, Pantheists and the rest, I will at least be able to take comfort in the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Atheists amongst the crowd.
Dude viking is not so great anyway. You sit around in a giant meade hall getting tanked and brawling with other guests until Ragnarök comes and you and even the gods face total oblivion. Though the boinking valkyries part sounds appealing....
| 178 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:39:01pm |
re: #174 Varek Raith
I'd be more upset that they'd let my dog across the Rainbow Bridge, but not me >>
| 179 |
allegro Fri, May 7, 2010 4:39:41pm |
re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote
What about the social bonds used to kill other groups? You have to be very careful with the minefield (no pun intended) that line of reasoning goes down.
I agree that there is a selective pressure on our species to maintain group bonds. However, that does not remove the possibility that God intended it that way.
Considering the religious wars throughout human history, with those social bonds used to kill other groups, did a god intend it that way?
| 180 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, May 7, 2010 4:39:57pm |
re: #172 LudwigVanQuixote
I do adore you. I just want to be clear.
I find that I am more inclined to use cuss words when I am in a lot of pain. Arthritis has spread from my feet and ankles to my knees and every step is, well, it's unpleasant.
I have vicodin, but I don't like to take it unless the pain gets really, really unbearable. I'd rather grit my teeth and grunt "Scheiss burgers!" than pop pills all day long.
| 181 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:40:23pm |
re: #177 LudwigVanQuixote
Dude viking is not so great anyway. You sit around in a giant meade hall getting tanked and brawling with other guests until Ragnarök comes and you and even the gods face total oblivion. Though the boinking valkyries part sounds appealing...
Ragnarök would be awesome as hell to watch...
| 182 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:40:35pm |
re: #180 Alouette
That's the kind of post you don't know whether to upding or not. Condolances for your pain >
| 183 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:40:53pm |
re: #168 lostlakehiker
Indeed. I'm in the camp of the jury that, when asked to render a verdict guilty or not guilty, returned the verdict not proved. Ethical humanism is a tough row to hoe. "We" owe a huge debt to religion. And here's a metaphor: what are "go" proverbs, anyhow? They're the religion of go players. Proverb believers play one way, free thinkers play another. Proverb believers tend to win. How's that? We absolutely know that "go" is just a game with a decision tree, that there are no "go" miracles, and that everything depends purely and entirely on "if he goes there and I go there then he can go there and that would lead to this" type reasoning. By rights, the scoffer should win. He's right. But---not really. Because although those proverbs are not literally divine commandments, they are the distilled wisdom of many centuries of champions and go teachers. Human minds are incapable of chasing down all the by-ways and intricacies of the he-goes-there-then-I-do-that approach to go. Thus, it is entirely possible that go proverbs are true in the sense that the believer plays better than the scoffer.
Likewise, it is entirely possible that even if there is no miracle worker in the background, that even if there is no God, these religious teachings are nevertheless true---in the sense that we would make less of a mess of our lives than we normally do if we treated them as true.
It is also possible that they're true because faith is a resonance with something real in a sense that physics cannot capture.
I think that is an excellent post.
I can't measure love with a spectrometer or write an equation for joy or beauty.
| 185 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 4:41:19pm |
37% of all atheists utter "Oh God" as their last dying words.
/I'm just saying.
| 187 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:41:44pm |
re: #180 Alouette
I find that I am more inclined to use cuss words when I am in a lot of pain. Arthritis has spread from my feet and ankles to my knees and every step is, well, it's unpleasant.
I have vicodin, but I don't like to take it unless the pain gets really, really unbearable. I'd rather grit my teeth and grunt "Scheiss burgers!" than pop pills all day long.
do you use ginger? it is a very potent anti-inflammatory.
| 188 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:41:55pm |
re: #179 allegro
Considering the religious wars throughout human history, with those social bonds used to kill other groups, did a god intend it that way?
Did he intend it that way when non-religious Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists and Khmer Rouge killed even more?
The scripture is rather clear on the don't murder people stuff.
| 189 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:42:02pm |
re: #185 Racer X
37% of all atheists utter "Oh God" as their last dying words.
/I'm just saying.
Oh, God...
Just kidding!
:P
| 190 |
allegro Fri, May 7, 2010 4:42:35pm |
re: #183 LudwigVanQuixote
I can't measure love with a spectrometer or write an equation for joy or beauty.
Yet the physical and chemical responses in the brain in response to both can be seen and measured.
| 191 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 4:42:38pm |
| 192 |
wrenchwench Fri, May 7, 2010 4:42:49pm |
re: #180 Alouette
{{{Alouette}}}
I think there are fewer side effects from cussing, although I admit I am unfamiliar with potential consequences for your immortal soul.
| 193 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 4:43:14pm |
re: #46 Slumbering Behemoth
You've got it all wrong. When the markets collapse, the economy totally tanks, and society goes down the tubes, you don't sell your gold for cash.
You take that gold ingot you bought for $1200 and trade it for a pound of rice and a roll of toilet paper.
/BUY GOLD!
I know a few people who got through the Second World War like that, but it's not exactly an ideal long-term financial plan.
| 194 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:43:20pm |
re: #177 LudwigVanQuixote
Dude viking is not so great anyway. You sit around in a giant meade hall getting tanked and brawling with other guests until Ragnarök comes and you and even the gods face total oblivion. Though the boinking valkyries part sounds appealing...
If the universe indeed created itself ex nihilo in the Big Bang, the theological notion that whatever gods there are will disappear in the Big Crunch has some scientific merit to it. And drinking and brawling and listening to skalds sing ribald songs in between Valkyrie boinking sessions sounds like a pretty good way to pass the interim time to these lascivious, drunken old ears...
| 195 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, May 7, 2010 4:43:21pm |
re: #187 brookly red
do you use ginger? it is a very potent anti-inflammatory.
I like to cook with ginger. I have a big chunk in the fridge. What should I do, drop a slice in my tea?
| 196 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 4:43:51pm |
re: #49 windsagio
I just happened to reread the book of Goldfinger.
They're supposed to be Korean.
BTW, Ian Fleming REALLY hates Koreans for some reason.
That sort of thing usually goes back to a girl in college...
| 197 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:43:55pm |
re: #185 Racer X
37% of all atheists utter "Oh God" as their last dying words.
/I'm just saying.
If they see it coming. I have seen a number of people buy it with the phrase "oh shit!"
| 198 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:44:21pm |
re: #180 Alouette
I find that I am more inclined to use cuss words when I am in a lot of pain. Arthritis has spread from my feet and ankles to my knees and every step is, well, it's unpleasant.
I have vicodin, but I don't like to take it unless the pain gets really, really unbearable. I'd rather grit my teeth and grunt "Scheiss burgers!" than pop pills all day long.
I understand. My mom has similar problems. She has recently started cussing up a storm I am told. She too does not want to take pain killers until she is about to fall over.
I really think that taking the prescribed dosage if you are actually hurting will not lead to addiction or lead to any long term harm.
| 199 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:44:33pm |
re: #190 allegro
Yet the physical and chemical responses in the brain in response to both can be seen and measured.
Your point being?
| 200 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 4:44:48pm |
re: #197 brookly red
If they see it coming. I have seen a number of people buy it with the phrase "oh shit!"
46% to be precise.
| 201 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 4:44:54pm |
re: #188 LudwigVanQuixote
Did he intend it that way when non-religious Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists and Khmer Rouge killed even more?
The scripture is rather clear on the don't murder people stuff.
Yes it is... and it's also very clear on which city to invade, which populations were worth saving, and which one weren't, how to divide the spoils and how not to divide the spoils and what will happen if you don't follow G-d's rules of warfare.
And your also right... non-religious Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists and Khmer Rouge killed even more.
| 202 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, May 7, 2010 4:45:02pm |
re: #192 wrenchwench
{{{Alouette}}}
I think there are fewer side effects from cussing, although I admit I am unfamiliar with potential consequences for your immortal soul.
Saying stuff like "Scheiss burgers!" is naughty but it's not on the same magnitude of soul damage as cursing the name of G-d.
| 203 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:45:04pm |
re: #197 brookly red
If they see it coming. I have seen a number of people buy it with the phrase "oh shit!"
And don't forget the ever popular, "....".
| 204 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:45:25pm |
re: #190 allegro
Yet the physical and chemical responses in the brain in response to both can be seen and measured.
So if humans have a spiritual component, why could that not be a physical manifestation of it?
| 206 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 4:46:13pm |
re: #130 LudwigVanQuixote
Well, I am not going to argue the other side.
However, it is not an invalid argument either. The argument that you refrain from killing Larry when he is annoying because Larry has incalculable worth endowed by the fabric of creation itself, is much stronger than you don't kill Larry in order to prevent Larry's friends from killing you or because you think Larry is useful even though annoying.
Religion certainly is good for keeping people in line, and for convincing them to take certain actions.
I do however, have trouble accepting the idea we don't kill Larry because Larry has worth. We don't kill Larry because of the cost/benefit ratio. Religion has the ability to skew the belief in what that ratio happens to be, even if it does not reflect reality.
Our current social conscience, which has been partially influenced by religion, does the same thing.
| 207 |
allegro Fri, May 7, 2010 4:46:33pm |
re: #199 Cato the Elder
Your point being?
My point being that most any phenomenon that is used to point to the existence of a supreme being has been, or arguably will at some point, be explained through scientific means and measurements as not supernatural at all.
| 209 |
Gus Fri, May 7, 2010 4:47:06pm |
re: #207 allegro
My point being that most any phenomenon that is used to point to the existence of a supreme being has been, or arguably will at some point, be explained through scientific means and measurements as not supernatural at all.
100 percent of the time.
| 210 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:47:13pm |
re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist
That sort of thing usually goes back to a girl in college...
LOL.
That is so true.
I was talking with the GF about kids names. Several were ruled out because she did not like so and so from college or earlier.
| 211 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 4:47:16pm |
| 212 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:47:53pm |
re: #195 Alouette
I like to cook with ginger. I have a big chunk in the fridge. What should I do, drop a slice in my tea?
that is a good method, if you like the pickled ginger that comes with sushi you can buy a whole jar for a coupla bucks & eat a coupla ounces at a time... it has other benefit too.
| 213 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, May 7, 2010 4:47:58pm |
re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist
That sort of thing usually goes back to a girl in college...
Or, High School!
| 214 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 4:48:26pm |
re: #211 b_sharp
It's that nose picking, isn't it?
More like
All those wedgies he gave
All those shoe strings he tied
All those brownies he made
With the Ex-lax inside....
| 215 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:48:31pm |
While interesting, this debate is pointless. One could never prove nor disprove the existence of any supreme entity.
Carry on!
:)
| 216 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:48:55pm |
re: #206 b_sharp
Religion certainly is good for keeping people in line, and for convincing them to take certain actions.
I do however, have trouble accepting the idea we don't kill Larry because Larry has worth. We don't kill Larry because of the cost/benefit ratio. Religion has the ability to skew the belief in what that ratio happens to be, even if it does not reflect reality.
Our current social conscience, which has been partially influenced by religion, does the same thing.
All cost benefit ratios are by definition subjective when looked at in this way.
My religion for example, will tell you flat out that buying those jeans that were sewn by a five year old is contributing to her murder.
I am actually rather proud that we are taught that sort of awareness.
| 217 |
Gus Fri, May 7, 2010 4:49:16pm |
re: #215 Varek Raith
While interesting, this debate is pointless. One could never prove nor disprove the existence of any supreme entity.
Carry on!
:)
True. It would be difficult for me to prove that something doesn't exist.
| 218 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:49:21pm |
re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist
That sort of thing usually goes back to a girl in college...
or getting your ass kicked by a 5'4" Tia Kawn Dow guy...
| 219 |
wrenchwench Fri, May 7, 2010 4:49:54pm |
| 220 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:50:51pm |
re: #215 Varek Raith
That's kinda the whole point of what LVQ and I have been saying tho >
| 221 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 4:51:14pm |
reine de tout!
Just got my cookbooks and OMG. Fantastic, thank you!!! Jaunte ditto!!
| 222 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:51:23pm |
re: #207 allegro
My point being that most any phenomenon that is used to point to the existence of a supreme being has been, or arguably will at some point, be explained through scientific means and measurements as not supernatural at all.
That is not what LVQ was talking about.
You can measure brain responses to beauty? Big surprise!
Seeing a response to something explains neither the response nor the thing.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." --Gandalf
| 223 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:51:48pm |
re: #218 brookly red
or getting your ass kicked by a 5'4" Tia Kawn Dow guy...
Lol, I have met the 5'4, 65-300 year old short, bald, grinning Asian man... Who promptly picked on me in the dojo because I was so much larger and one of the top students. It is the serene smile of utter self satisfaction they get as you fly through the air upside down that sticks with you.
| 224 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:52:05pm |
re: #217 Gus 802
True. It would be difficult for me to prove that something doesn't exist.
Heh, it's fun though. I used to be the "in your face" kind of atheist. Now, meh, what ever floats your boat. Just as long as you leave me out of your* religious belief.
:)
*Not you, Gus.
| 225 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 7, 2010 4:52:26pm |
re: #221 Rightwingconspirator
reine de tout!
Just got my cookbooks and OMG. Fantastic, thank you!!! Jaunte ditto!!
Glad you like it!
It's pretty awesome! Major kudos to Jaunte, his assistant George G., Cato and everyone who submitted a recipe (or an entire Gardening Section of their Very Own) -
| 226 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 4:52:51pm |
re: #221 Rightwingconspirator
reine de tout!
Just got my cookbooks and OMG. Fantastic, thank you!!! Jaunte ditto!!
Grrr.Still waiting out here in the cornfields!
Thanks Reine!
| 227 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:52:59pm |
re: #220 windsagio
That's kinda the whole point of what LVQ and I have been saying tho >
I still think he/she/they do not exist. I just don't care for endless debates.
:)
| 228 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:53:32pm |
re: #227 Varek Raith
I still think he/she/they do not exist. I just don't care for endless debates.
:)
Well said.
| 229 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 4:53:36pm |
re: #130 LudwigVanQuixote
Well, I am not going to argue the other side.
However, it is not an invalid argument either. The argument that you refrain from killing Larry when he is annoying because Larry has incalculable worth endowed by the fabric of creation itself, is much stronger than you don't kill Larry in order to prevent Larry's friends from killing you or because you think Larry is useful even though annoying.
A self defining argument (a close relative of self justifying).
You don't know squat about why I wouldn't kill someone because they were annoying.
| 230 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:53:37pm |
re: #224 Varek Raith
Thats a sign of growing up. You don't need to prove you're superior to the proles anymore*
*because, of course its already abundantly clear :D
| 231 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 4:54:01pm |
re: #225 reine.de.tout
I am going to do one of these dishes for a party. I do a pool party every year. Heh. BTW-Lizards will be invited.
| 232 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 4:54:16pm |
re: #227 Varek Raith
You can think that all you want, hell you could be right (altho I don't think you are :p)
Saying that its "PROVEN" is just silly tho' ;)
| 233 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 4:54:29pm |
re: #215 Varek Raith
While interesting, this debate is pointless. One could never prove nor disprove the existence of any supreme entity.
Carry on!
:)
Proving or debating on the existence of g-d, from a faith point of view is pointless... if one believes, one believes. Belief is not knowledge, but it is sufficient for a faith in the existence of g-d.
But, you can question one who believes as to what was it, by what manner, by what idea, by... well... what was the foundational reason for that belief.
If a believer answer ANYTHING besides "it's just what I feel, what I feel I know, what I belief, I don't need anything "foundational" for my belief" then you do have a questionable position.
Because if you can attribute your belief to material like holy books, religious stories, assumed miracles or other "proofs" of that nature, then you are open to criticism and scientific disagreement.
You can't base you belief on flawed material, which most people do.
| 234 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:54:47pm |
re: #223 LudwigVanQuixote
Lol, I have met the 5'4, 65-300 year old short, bald, grinning Asian man... Who promptly picked on me in the dojo because I was so much larger and one of the top students. It is the serene smile of utter self satisfaction they get as you fly through the air upside down that sticks with you.
I do the Chinese soft forms, & I could tell you some stories..
| 235 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 4:55:12pm |
re: #223 LudwigVanQuixote
Did they teach you recounters to the moves?
| 236 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 4:56:22pm |
re: #235 Rightwingconspirator
Did they teach you recounters to the moves?
getting out of the way is the best...
| 237 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 4:56:51pm |
re: #232 windsagio
You can think that all you want, hell you could be right (altho I don't think you are :p)
Saying that its "PROVEN" is just silly tho' ;)
Proven, definitely not. Which is why this annoys me, as a deity that exists outside our very reality can never be tested. Just might as well not be there in my mind.
:shrugs: I don't know what the hell I'm talking about. :P
| 238 |
Ojoe Fri, May 7, 2010 4:57:06pm |
All should be made fun of, no exceptions.
It is the only safe way.
I salute Mel Brooks and Monty Python.
| 239 |
Gus Fri, May 7, 2010 4:57:45pm |
re: #224 Varek Raith
Heh, it's fun though. I used to be the "in your face" kind of atheist. Now, meh, what ever floats your boat. Just as long as you leave me out of your* religious belief.
:)
*Not you, Gus.
I've always been tempted to evangelize atheism but my track record proves otherwise. For the most part I've been trained in this society that it's not socially acceptable to do as such. However, society readily accepts the evangelizing of all religions.
That is coming to an end as we're seeing with the rapid growth of atheism. I never expected to see such growth in like minded people in my lifetime. It's about time since those of us that came before us had to endure nearly 2000 years of silence. So if some people want to capitalize Atheism, I welcome it. It's about time.
| 240 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 4:57:55pm |
re: #135 HoosierHoops
Sorry I think you have it wrong...All scientists should on the face of it be agnostic...Look everybody knows the first Rainbow wasn't 6000 years ago..Light have passed through water particles for Billions of years...Yes there was a rainbow long before Noah..It's a fable my friends..
That doesn't mean there isn't God..The Lord Almighty...You don't get to prove God in Science...And by keeping it separate Mankind as made wonderful strides in Science...
Wonderful strides in science are hardly proof of existence. Those wonderful strides were made, possibly, because of the belief in a god, not because of the existence of a god.
God doesn't get an exception from science just because so many people have a huge investment in his/her/its existence.
As long as believers keep putting forward instances of their god(s) affecting reality, those instances can be examined, predictions made, and tests run on their validity.
So far, every instance has been shown to be false. If god/God can't interact with our physical world, then what kind of god is he/she/it?
| 241 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 4:58:32pm |
re: #238 Ojoe
All should be made fun of, no exceptions.
It is the only safe way.
I salute Mel Brooks and Monty Python.
There's a very small percentile,
Who enjoys a dancing gentile,
I'm sad to be the one with this bad news!
But never mind your swordplay,
You just won't succeed on Broadway,
You just won't succeed on Broadway,
If you don't have any Jews!
| 242 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:58:39pm |
re: #235 Rightwingconspirator
Did they teach you recounters to the moves?
Here's one that often works:
| 243 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 4:59:06pm |
re: #229 Naso Tang
A self defining argument (a close relative of self justifying).
You don't know squat about why I wouldn't kill someone because they were annoying.
I claimed that the religious argument in this case is stronger than a utilitarian one or a subjective one. If you have a reason that is neither subjective or utilitarian, I will remove the assertion.
NB: here we see that atheists get just as cranky over their beliefs as believers.
| 244 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 4:59:15pm |
re: #236 brookly red
Agreed. But I refer to the attacker having a recounter to the judo response. In other words breaking the throw at its inception.
| 245 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 4:59:57pm |
re: #239 Gus 802
I've always been tempted to evangelize atheism but my track record proves otherwise. For the most part I've been trained in this society that it's not socially acceptable to do as such. However, society readily accepts the evangelizing of all religions.
That is coming to an end as we're seeing with the rapid growth of atheism. I never expected to see such growth in like minded people in my lifetime. It's about time since those of us that came before us had to endure nearly 2000 years of silence. So if some people want to capitalize Atheism, I welcome it. It's about time.
Fine, but don't start asking for tax-exempt status for your meeting rooms. That's reserved for Religions.
| 246 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:00:04pm |
re: #237 Varek Raith
You're making a hell of a lot of sense for someone who doesn't know what they're talking about :P
| 247 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 5:00:53pm |
re: #245 Cato the Elder
Fine, but don't start asking for tax-exempt status for your meeting rooms. That's reserved for Religions.
And things that look like religions at first glance like the Co$
| 248 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 5:01:14pm |
re: #240 b_sharp
Wonderful strides in science are hardly proof of existence. Those wonderful strides were made, possibly, because of the belief in a god, not because of the existence of a god.
God doesn't get an exception from science just because so many people have a huge investment in his/her/its existence.
As long as believers keep putting forward instances of their god(s) affecting reality, those instances can be examined, predictions made, and tests run on their validity.
So far, every instance has been shown to be false. If god/God can't interact with our physical world, then what kind of god is he/she/it?
How do you know He doesn't? The core of modern physical theory has inherent randomness. This is a very important point. How do you know that He doesn't interact all the time? A wave function collapses here rather than there? Most importantly, if He does act that way, there is no mathematical or observable way you could tell.
| 249 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:01:18pm |
If faith required proof, we would call it science or logic.
| 250 |
Gus Fri, May 7, 2010 5:01:33pm |
re: #245 Cato the Elder
Fine, but don't start asking for tax-exempt status for your meeting rooms. That's reserved for Religions.
Yep. Like Scientology.
| 251 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, May 7, 2010 5:01:45pm |
re: #14 jamesfirecat
Wow...
So horribly tasteless.
The only funny joke I ever heard along similar lines was from a comic of Indian decent...
"Please note I'm not Muslim, I'm Hindu. They can't eat pork we can't eat beef. They are connected with 9-11... we are connected with 7-11..."
And that only worked because he was saying it rather than me...
He probably got that one from Joe Biden.
| 252 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 5:02:05pm |
re: #89 windsagio
When cheap japanese animation and cutrate evangelical writing crosspollinate
Some things are so perverse that even the MPAA can't rate them...
Seriously, though, it gets back to my contention that the literalists really do approach the Bible as a Book of Magick, with the attendant world view.
| 253 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:02:33pm |
re: #80 wrenchwench
This presumes that, as an atheist, I want to get rid of the whole enterprise. I don't care whether you and all the other religious folk continue your practice. It also assumes that "social justice, duty to those in need, kindness and compassion for those around you, love of culture and continuity, self sacrifice, refraining from instant gratification in the face of larger goals" can't exist outside of the religious enterprises. Not true.
I don't mind anyone saying my belief that there is no god is a "belief", but I think it's incorrect to say that "faith" is part of it. There may be a god, there may not. I don't even have faith that I'll find out after I die.
Just my 2 drachma.
I think I can understand where you're coming from on this, since I have similar feelings about the divinity of Christ. Can't tell you how many times I've gone around with this. There are a lot of nice, well-meaning folks, who simply can't comprehend a non-Christian religious belief. They don't understand the idea of a whole different system--they see Judaism (or for that matter, any other religion), as being FORMED around the rejection of Jesus. Not mean people. Not bigots. Just totally unable to realize that people approach faith with a whole different set of elementary premises than their own.
| 254 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:03:19pm |
re: #248 LudwigVanQuixote
Brilliant. His work may well reside in the quantum universe. But of course I take him on faith. Science shows me his footsteps sometimes. More often the science points to his mystery.
| 255 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 5:03:24pm |
re: #250 Gus 802
Yep. Like Scientology.
Ahh now Scientology is something different. They claim that they can develop psychic powers and all sorts of fun things about aliens interacting with the Earth, like setting off giant nukes inside of volcanoes. These are testable and measurable claims - that can then be used to debunk as stupid and evil and grasping cult.
| 256 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 5:04:24pm |
re: #255 LudwigVanQuixote
Ahh now Scientology is something different. They claim that they can develop psychic powers and all sorts of fun things about aliens interacting with the Earth, like setting off giant nukes inside of volcanoes. These are testable and measurable claims - that can then be used to debunk as stupid and evil and grasping cult.
What in the world would setting of nukes in volcanoes accomplish?
| 258 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 5:04:57pm |
re: #248 LudwigVanQuixote
How do you know He doesn't? The core of modern physical theory has inherent randomness. This is a very important point. How do you know that He doesn't interact all the time? A wave function collapses here rather than there?
So, on this comparison of the different interpretations of Quantum Mechanics, where do you fit?
| 259 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:05:18pm |
re: #84 windsagio
I thought Kings was okay, I didn't like the (�(*#@$ lists.
There are a few delightful suggestions of stories tucked away in those endless geneologies, though.
1 Chronicles, 7:24: "His daughter was She'erah, who built lower and upper Beth-horon, also Uzzen-sheerah."
There is no other mention of this woman, she just pops up out of the lists of Chronicles, builds her towns, and blips out of history again, all in one verse.
| 260 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:05:19pm |
re: #244 Rightwingconspirator
Agreed. But I refer to the attacker having a recounter to the judo response. In other words breaking the throw at its inception.
I can't speak for everyone but in my school (Tia Chi/Yang) the emphasis is on "sticking" so as to sense the opponent's direction and defuse it before it takes form... basically it you remain soft the Judo guys have nothing to work with.
| 261 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:05:22pm |
re: #256 Varek Raith
What in the world would setting of nukes in volcanoes accomplish?
Well, if we did it right, it might slow down or even stop AGW.
| 262 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 5:06:27pm |
re: #256 Varek Raith
What in the world would setting of nukes in volcanoes accomplish?
It killed excess alien population that the galactic overlord xenu had shipped here to be slaughtered - by planting them at the base of these volcanoes.
The spirits of these murdered aliens called thetans cling to your body and cause the reactive mind.
Yes the $cientologists actually believe this.
| 263 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:06:48pm |
re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist
There are a few delightful suggestions of stories tucked away in those endless geneologies, though.
1 Chronicles, 7:24: "His daughter was She'erah, who built lower and upper Beth-horon, also Uzzen-sheerah."
There is no other mention of this woman, she just pops up out of the lists of Chronicles, builds her towns, and blips out of history again, all in one verse.
Someone (I'll have to go find the book) wrote a whole novel about Dinah called "The Red Tent". Puts a whole new spin on the book of Genesis.
| 264 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 5:07:35pm |
re: #262 LudwigVanQuixote
It killed excess alien population that the galactic overlord xenu had shipped here to be slaughtered - by planting them at the base of these volcanoes.
The spirits of these murdered aliens called thetans cling to your body and cause the reactive mind.
Yes the $cientologists actually believe this.
SPAWN MORE OVERLORDS!
/starcraft
| 265 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 5:07:49pm |
re: #240 b_sharp
I know God exists in my Heart..Science has nothing to do with it...And never will...And I trash Religion here almost every day..
You shall know them by their fruit...
That's all I got to say about that
| 267 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:08:31pm |
re: #260 brookly red
That would work well with Judo. Soft styles rely in part on incoming energy. At a more subtle level soft on soft, we wait for the overcommitment in position then exploit. Unless/until that is a setup. The you depend on a soft mat or a good re-counter.
But the boxer or kickboxer has some good options at the very inception of a toss. Briefly.
| 268 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 5:09:12pm |
re: #243 LudwigVanQuixote
I claimed that the religious argument in this case is stronger than a utilitarian one or a subjective one. If you have a reason that is neither subjective or utilitarian, I will remove the assertion.
NB: here we see that atheists get just as cranky over their beliefs as believers.
I haven't actually been arguing my belief or non belief, only the strength of your logic, which I find better in other areas. You have been making assumptions about one side of an argument, then composing an answer to counter your assumption, or simply stating your "belief" that one stance is more powerful, in some way, than another.
I would not kill someone because they were annoying because that would make me less human, and it pleases me to think that I am a decent human. You seem to be saying that you would rather please someone/something else to think you were a decent human, whether you are or not.
| 269 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:09:22pm |
re: #173 Cato the Elder
If I come to die and find myself turned away from Valhalla by Thor along with all the other deluded Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Animists, Pantheists and the rest, I will at least be able to take comfort in the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Atheists amongst the crowd.
I don't think Thor minds if you worshipped some other dude. Just meant he didn't have to do anything for you.
However, you only get into Valhalla if you die in battle. Period.
| 270 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:09:42pm |
re: #261 Cato the Elder
Well, if we did it right, it might slow down or even stop AGW.
over population? no problem... a tad of nuclear winter to cool things down... it could work.
| 271 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:09:45pm |
| 272 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:10:12pm |
re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist
Oh man, thats why people want a war on radical islam so bad!
| 273 |
Ojoe Fri, May 7, 2010 5:11:27pm |
God does not exist in creation, of course if you search in the created world you might think there is no God.
| 274 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:11:52pm |
re: #263 Cato the Elder
Someone (I'll have to go find the book) wrote a whole novel about Dinah called "The Red Tent". Puts a whole new spin on the book of Genesis.
Anita Diamant. I have some reservations about it, but quite liked it.
| 275 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 5:12:09pm |
re: #258 freetoken
So, on this comparison of the different interpretations of Quantum Mechanics, where do you fit?
I fall on the none of them, just shut up and calculate school of thought.
What I mean by that is that the model is correct and the equations ar correct and they produce consistent, accurate and reliable results.
Since all of those different interpretations are mathematically and physically indistinguishable, I am equally agnostic to all of them.
IF push comes to shove, I suppose that I am something of a Copenhagen interpretation follower after studying QED. The math of QED says that the electron field intersects our 4-d space time at one point in space time - this lends credence to the picture that the electron is in a definite place even if we can not completely specify it. This also applies to all other field theories.
However, it really does not matter, because we know that QM as currently established can not be the final theory.
So, in the domain of validity that it covers, I shut up and calculate.
| 276 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:12:39pm |
re: #267 Rightwingconspirator
That would work well with Judo. Soft styles rely in part on incoming energy. At a more subtle level soft on soft, we wait for the overcommitment in position then exploit. Unless/until that is a setup. The you depend on a soft mat or a good re-counter.
But the boxer or kickboxer has some good options at the very inception of a toss. Briefly.
soft boxing is very good, ad some chin na, a touch of dan mak, very good.
| 277 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 5:13:18pm |
Interesting, did the Cameron BOP fail or was the spill a case of human error?
Foxnews video
From my own preliminary observations, There are some very major mistakes that were by companies that were involved. -Interior Secretary Ken Salazar
Would that be Haliburton who'd just finished cementing in? Transocean the rig owner? Or BP who was leasing the rig?
And if this proves true, does this leave Cameron off of the hook? What about the Deadman* Fail-safe? Why didn't that activate?
*An eerily appropriate name considering the tragic loss of life of the actual operators.
| 278 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:14:24pm |
re: #269 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't think Thor minds if you worshipped some other dude. Just meant he didn't have to do anything for you.
However, you only get into Valhalla if you die in battle. Period.
I fully intend to die in battle.
Love is a battlefield.
Debate on LGF is battle.
Battling with a translation text is obviously battle.
At my age, peeing can be a real battle.
There's the battle with the bottle, with stupidity, with telephone customer service reps, with unemployment, with misunderstanding, with human cruelty, and with shoelaces.
90% of my waking life is battle, and at night I battle with my nightmares.
I fully expect to qualify for Valhalla.
| 279 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 5:14:27pm |
re: #275 LudwigVanQuixote
So, in the domain of validity that it covers, I shut up and calculate.
Fair enough. However, the text of yours I quoted earlier led me to believe that you really do want a hidden variable, assigned with the name "God".
| 280 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 5:14:44pm |
re: #268 Naso Tang
I haven't actually been arguing my belief or non belief, only the strength of your logic, which I find better in other areas. You have been making assumptions about one side of an argument, then composing an answer to counter your assumption, or simply stating your "belief" that one stance is more powerful, in some way, than another.
I would not kill someone because they were annoying because that would make me less human, and it pleases me to think that I am a decent human. You seem to be saying that you would rather please someone/something else to think you were a decent human, whether you are or not.
How would you be less human. Humans kill all the time. If you remove a spiritual level to this question how can you even make that statement. Your logic is non-existent.
| 281 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 5:14:45pm |
re: #136 ArchangelMichael
That a bit of arrogant presumption on your part. A literal version of God as presented in various religious texts might fall into that category. Outside of those definitions we can narrow it down to a force/entity responsible for creation of reality/the universe/etc. That is likely to be something that is beyond human comprehension (much as quantum mechanics would be to a lemur), for which you don't even know what evidence for it would be. Such a thing cant be matter-of-fact said to be impossible due to physical laws.
Are you postulating the four fundamental forces as God? If not, how far back do you want to go? Everything so far, including everything that happened after the BB can be explained without the need for a God. It's not arrogance to accept that god has not been found or found to be necessary back as far as the BB. If you want to say he exists somewhere before the BB, or in the BB, I can't argue with it because the first Planck second is closed to us right now. However, there have been explanations put forward that can/have and will be tested. The evidence so far says god/God isn't needed for the existence of the universe.
Telling me it could be somewhere where we haven't gone yet, and don't know about, is just meaningless hand waving. We get that from Astrologers and Homeopaths. It is the argument the FSM was invented to address.
Follow the evidence.
| 282 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 5:15:15pm |
| 284 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 5:15:39pm |
re: #279 freetoken
Fair enough. However, the text of yours I quoted earlier led me to believe that you really do want a hidden variable, assigned with the name "God".
Yes that is true, but you need to be very careful what is meant by hidden variable here.
| 285 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:16:14pm |
re: #282 b_sharp
I'll take it back if you're willing to admit that you might be wrong on the subject >>
| 286 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:16:20pm |
re: #277 Bagua
I was hoping you might comment on soft styles...
| 287 |
Nimed Fri, May 7, 2010 5:16:50pm |
re: #173 Cato the Elder
If I come to die and find myself turned away from Valhalla by Thor along with all the other deluded Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Animists, Pantheists and the rest, I will at least be able to take comfort in the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Atheists amongst the crowd.
Among the rejected by an afterlife paradise, atheists will be the happiest of the bunch. After all, we were the ones with the lowest expectations.
| 288 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 5:17:24pm |
re: #280 LudwigVanQuixote
Your logic is non-existent.
Funny thing is, I think I understand yours, by using mine. Pity you can't do the same.
:)
| 289 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 5:17:35pm |
re: #287 Nimed
Among the rejected by an afterlife paradise, atheists will be the happiest of the bunch. After all, we were the ones with the lowest expectations.
Speak for yourself. I didn't pack a toothbrush!
| 290 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 5:18:31pm |
re: #284 LudwigVanQuixote
Yes that is true, but you need to be very careful what is meant by hidden variable here.
Something tells me you would have done well during the reign of Scholasticism.
| 291 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 5:19:57pm |
Talk about not having a sense of humor...
I take it someone may have already mentioned this, but here is the Governor of AZ acting all frumpy over a statement the President made during the comedy routine.
| 292 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 5:20:01pm |
re: #288 Naso Tang
Funny thing is, I think I understand yours, by using mine. Pity you can't do the same.
:)
OK so please explain it to me.
You made a very interesting statement. that you would be less human if you killed Larry.
How would you be less human? Humans kill all the time. If you remove a spiritual level to this question, how can you even make that statement?
I believe that murder does damage the soul, but that is a religious statement. Without invoking some sort of spirituality, how do you say what you are saying though?
| 293 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 5:20:02pm |
re: #139 Cato the Elder
Well, if they don't, why do so many insist on capitalizing "Atheist" and "Atheism"?
Things that make you go "hmm"...
So far, theists are the only ones capitalizing it on this thread.
| 294 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:20:08pm |
re: #276 brookly red
Well said. As I age I enjoy the soft styles more. The subtle timing and sensitivity. I like the "in contact" method, which I first learned in Wing Chung.
| 295 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:20:16pm |
re: #290 freetoken
Something tells me you would have done well during the reign of Scholasticism.
I would have been most at home then. And I hope you don't mean any insult to Scholasticism, or I'll say a novena to Saint Scholastica and make your willy wither!
| 296 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 5:20:46pm |
re: #290 freetoken
Something tells me you would have done well during the reign of Scholasticism.
Lol, well yes, but I am also trying to avoid a long discussion of EPR and Bell's inequalities.
| 297 |
harry91 Fri, May 7, 2010 5:21:03pm |
Totally of topic but funny as hell.
Of course its
Fake it's an ad. Notice the concentration on the shoes.
| 298 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 5:21:23pm |
re: #139 Cato the Elder
Well, if they don't, why do so many insist on capitalizing "Atheist" and "Atheism"?
Things that make you go "hmm"...
BTW, if I capitalize Canadian, does that make Canada a religion?
| 299 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 5:21:33pm |
| 301 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:22:38pm |
re: #298 b_sharp
BTW, if I capitalize Canadian, does that make Canada a religion?
If you type like a texter and don't capitalize "I", does that make you less of an egoist?
| 303 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 5:23:18pm |
I capitalize my name. Therefore, I am GOD!
Or some such nonsense.
| 304 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 5:23:36pm |
re: #299 freetoken
re: #296 LudwigVanQuixote
I'm just waiting for Ludwig to break out a conversation on how many angels can dance on a head of a pin...
Hey, the whole pint of the discussion is that arguing this crap is like arguing angles on heads of pins! You are insulting me with the point I am trying to make!
I am impressed.
| 305 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:23:46pm |
re: #303 Varek Raith
Do Jedi believe in god? (Either kind of Jedi)
| 306 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 5:23:53pm |
| 308 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:24:27pm |
re: #306 Walter L. Newton
Specifically I'm one of those Pseudohippie Christians >>
| 309 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 5:24:35pm |
| 310 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 5:24:43pm |
re: #305 windsagio
Do Jedi believe in god? (Either kind of Jedi)
Well, most just "believe" in the Force. Some Sith start to think themselves gods...
| 311 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 5:24:58pm |
Unites States of Tara has got to be the weirdest show on TV. I like it.
| 313 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 5:25:18pm |
re: #308 windsagio
Specifically I'm one of those Pseudohippie Christians >>
It's doesn't matter if you were one of those New Jersey Christians.
| 314 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:25:44pm |
re: #309 Walter L. Newton
I'm sure like most people. IE, I was introduced to the concept way further back than I can actually remember.
/can we cut to the chase here? :p
| 315 |
Ojoe Fri, May 7, 2010 5:25:48pm |
re: #299 freetoken
Angels can go from one place to another without passing through the intervening space, according to Thomas Aquinas.
Anyway, there are things seen, and things unseen, and it is an assumption to think that the material world is the sum total, if you ask me.
| 316 |
Varek Raith Fri, May 7, 2010 5:25:51pm |
re: #312 windsagio
Like you :p
Not my fault that my ability to crush a Star Destroyer with a mere thought inflates my ego....
| 317 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:25:57pm |
re: #313 Walter L. Newton
I thought you might be curious tho :D
| 318 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:25:59pm |
re: #309 Walter L. Newton
And how were you informed of g-d?
I'm terribly amused by atheists who spell "God" as "G-d", even more so when they do it with a small "g".
It's the best kind of chain-jerking!
| 320 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:27:55pm |
This has been great fun, but I'm two chapters away from finishing the first volume of "A Song of Ice and Fire", so I bid you all Godspeed.
| 321 |
Ojoe Fri, May 7, 2010 5:28:28pm |
re: #298 b_sharp
some info about capital letters:
Capital and small letters are differentiated in the Roman, Greek, Cyrillic, Armenian and Coptic alphabets. Most writing systems (such as those used in Georgian, Glagolitic, Arabic, Hebrew, and Devanagari) make no distinction between capital and lowercase letters (and, of course, logographic writing systems such as Chinese have no "letters" at all). Indeed, even European languages did not make this distinction before about 1300; both majuscule and minuscule letters existed, but a given text would use either one or the other.
| 322 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:28:52pm |
re: #313 Walter L. Newton
It's doesn't matter if you were one of those New Jersey Christians.
If you have ever been to New Jersey the concept of a promised land is very appealing...
| 323 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 5:29:01pm |
re: #320 Cato the Elder
This has been great fun, but I'm two chapters away from finishing the first volume of "A Song of Ice and Fire", so I bid you all Godspeed.
EVERYONE IS READING THAT BOOK
Literally like 10 of my friends, and a couple of my friends' parents, are all reading those RR Martin books.
I guess I should start, huh?
| 324 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:29:06pm |
re: #320 Cato the Elder
Bought a copy of The Battle Cry of Freedom for our upcoming island trip. I'll be ready to crush Neoconfederates faster than ever before!
| 325 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 5:29:08pm |
re: #318 Cato the Elder
I'm terribly amused by atheists who spell "God" as "G-d", even more so when they do it with a small "g".
It's the best kind of chain-jerking!
Fucking cheap shot Cato... I do it out of respect of the believers here, more so the Jewish believers here who prefer that method of rendering that name in text.
Why, because in all my years here, I have been a most respectful atheist. That's why I do it, with no intent to jerk anyones chains.
| 326 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:29:30pm |
| 327 |
Nimed Fri, May 7, 2010 5:29:45pm |
A quick aside for Cato, Ludwig, and whoever has read ASoIaF novels:
This is a picture of the actor that will play Robert Baratheon in the coming HBO series. Click in it at your own peril.
A bit disappointing. Wardrobe and make-up perform miracles, right? Let's hope.
| 328 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 5:29:46pm |
re: #319 windsagio
Its Walter! Whattaya expect?
No, it's out of my respect to those who believe... hows that jerk?
| 329 |
Nimed Fri, May 7, 2010 5:30:16pm |
re: #323 WindUpBird
EVERYONE IS READING THAT BOOK
Literally like 10 of my friends, and a couple of my friends' parents, are all reading those RR Martin books.
I guess I should start, huh?
You really, really should.
| 330 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:30:19pm |
re: #326 windsagio
Or Hawkmoon, I wanna know what you think of Evil-gemmed-beastmask-Thatcher-Britian.
| 331 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 5:30:27pm |
re: #326 windsagio
I'm not!
Also you have to read Dancers at the end of time first, dammit!
I am TOTALLY bringing that to the island, it's right next to my desk :D
I plan on filling my head with hallucinatory Moorcockian wackiness, and then drawing whatever pops into my head afterwards ^_^
| 334 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 5:31:16pm |
| 335 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 5:31:23pm |
re: #329 Nimed
You really, really should.
Especially since a band I am quite taken with is essentially writing songs based on his works...
| 336 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 5:31:37pm |
| 337 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:32:05pm |
re: #334 Walter L. Newton
I did. We've had this discussion before too.
That being said, considering how much you like to mess with people, you should take it better :p
| 338 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:32:14pm |
re: #316 Varek Raith
Not my fault that my ability to crush a Star Destroyer with a mere thought inflates my ego...
Orderly, get me some Thorazine please, oh and a cup of hot chocolate...
| 339 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 5:32:52pm |
re: #328 Walter L. Newton
No, it's out of my respect to those who believe... hows that jerk?
You've explained it many times. Some people choose to believe in their own little nefarious world. You're a good man. Don't let anonymous people on a blog tell you differently.
| 340 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 5:34:26pm |
Re: AGW, recommended reading from today:
Secret Copenhagen recording reveals resistance from China and India
A leaked recording of behind-the-scenes negotiations between world leaders at the Copenhagen climate summit in December has revealed bad-tempered exchanges and clear frustrations from Europeans at what they saw as intransigence by the Chinese.
| 341 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:34:32pm |
re: #327 Nimed
A quick aside for Cato, Ludwig, and whoever has read ASoIaF novels:
This is a picture of the actor that will play Robert Baratheon in the coming HBO series. Click in it at your own peril.
A bit disappointing. Wardrobe and make-up perform miracles, right? Let's hope.
But here's the pick for Arya. Her name is Maisie Williams.
Lucky kid.
| 342 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:35:04pm |
To WUB: Once again, thanks for getting me to DL gimp.
| 343 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:35:04pm |
re: #339 Racer X
nefarious world... if I ever blog I want that site name!
| 344 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 5:35:20pm |
| 345 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:35:28pm |
re: #340 freetoken
Re: AGW, recommended reading from today:
Secret Copenhagen recording reveals resistance from China and India
There's a shock.
| 346 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:36:19pm |
re: #342 windsagio
Also, oh cool, Charles changed the code for avatars so they update right away >
| 347 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Fri, May 7, 2010 5:37:00pm |
re: #340 freetoken
Re: AGW, recommended reading from today:
Secret Copenhagen recording reveals resistance from China and India
More people need to hear this. One of the biggest things that the Indians and Chinese played to was the fact that even if an accord was come up with, there was no way that Senate GOPers would allow a treaty to be ratified.
| 348 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:37:31pm |
re: #335 WindUpBird
Especially since a band I am quite taken with is essentially writing songs based on his works...
/how can you be quite taken with the whole band? the drummer wasn't good enough for you? but nooo you wanted the whole band...
| 349 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:37:31pm |
re: #325 Walter L. Newton
Fucking cheap shot Cato... I do it out of respect of the believers here, more so the Jewish believers here who prefer that method of rendering that name in text.
Why, because in all my years here, I have been a most respectful atheist. That's why I do it, with no intent to jerk anyones chains.
It was not meant personally, Walter. I take my potshots as they offer themselves.
| 350 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 5:39:27pm |
re: #345 Cato the Elder
Perhaps the only shocking thing (other than that there is a recording) is that the French leader was doing the outbursts, and not the supposedly hot-headed Brown.
re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote
When offered a "chicken or the egg" quandary, the only answer I can come up with is that evolution takes time, sometimes lots of time.
| 351 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:39:32pm |
re: #346 windsagio
Oh? That is not cached locally? Web code is not something I learned.
| 352 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 5:39:33pm |
re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote
More people need to hear this. One of the biggest things that the Indians and Chinese played to was the fact that even if an accord was come up with, there was no way that Senate GOPers would allow a treaty to be ratified.
... and that little Betty is why the evil white minority in the GOP caused the destruction of humanity back in in the early 21st century. The dems, and the rest of the world, were powerless to stop them.
| 353 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:39:58pm |
re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote
More people need to hear this. One of the biggest things that the Indians and Chinese played to was the fact that even if an accord was come up with, there was no way that Senate GOPers would allow a treaty to be ratified.
between the Indians and the Chinese we are talking about what? half of the world? do they really care what Senate GOPers think? Get real.
| 354 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:40:13pm |
re: #351 Rightwingconspirator
All I know is I have both my old one and my new one on the same page. I presume they'd all go to new if I reloaded, but you used to have to reload to have it show at all.
| 355 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 5:40:19pm |
re: #342 windsagio
To WUB: Once again, thanks for getting me to DL gimp.
It's a handy little thing! The interface is infuriating to me but that's because I'm a beast of Photoshop and SAI :D
| 356 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:40:34pm |
re: #347 LudwigVanQuixote
More people need to hear this. One of the biggest things that the Indians and Chinese played to was the fact that even if an accord was come up with, there was no way that Senate GOPers would allow a treaty to be ratified.
A convenient excuse for them.
Fact is, China and India are in full-on expansion mode and nothing, but nothing, is going to stop them. A global accord? Might as well hope for sternly-worded letters from the UN to stop Iran's nuke program.
| 357 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 5:40:51pm |
re: #348 brookly red
/how can you be quite taken with the whole band? the drummer wasn't good enough for you? but nooo you wanted the whole band...
hahaha well done
| 358 |
swamprat Fri, May 7, 2010 5:40:58pm |
John Saxe's theological treatise on religion
It was six men of Indostan to learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant (though all of them were blind),
That each by observation might satisfy his mind.The First approached the Elephant, and happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side, at once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant is very like a wall!"The Second, feeling of the tusk, cried, "Ho! what have we here,
So very round and smooth and sharp? To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant is very like a spear!"The Third approached the animal, and happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands, thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant is very like a snake!"The Fourth reached out his eager hand and felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like is mighty plain," quoth he.
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant is very like a tree!"The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear said, "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most; deny the fact who can.
This marvel of an elephant is very like a fan!"The Sixth no sooner had begun about the beast to grope,
Than seizing on the swinging tail that fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant is very like a rope!"And so these men of Indostan disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right, and all were in the wrong!MORAL:
So oft in theologic wars, the disputants, I wean,
Rail on in utter ignorance of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant not one of them has seen!
| 359 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:41:11pm |
re: #355 WindUpBird
All I do is resize aand change the compression of images tho', so its perfect :D
| 361 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:44:05pm |
re: #356 Cato the Elder
A convenient excuse for them.
Fact is, China and India are in full-on expansion mode and nothing, but nothing, is going to stop them. A global accord? Might as well hope for sternly-worded letters from the UN to stop Iran's nuke program.
oh oh oh but but those damn GOPers!
| 362 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 5:44:58pm |
| 363 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 5:45:03pm |
One man, one little orange man, caused the global ecology, nay the global economy, to entirely collapse into ruin. Thats why I hate orange people.
| 364 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 5:45:08pm |
Changing topics a bit, it seems like two science stories have been underplayed in the general media and the blogosphere (outside of the specialist blogs dealing in these matters.)
The first being the story of the neanderthal bits and pieces in the human genome.
The second is this one:
NASA team cites new evidence that meteorites from Mars contain ancient fossils
NASA's Mars Meteorite Research Team reopened a 14-year-old controversy on extraterrestrial life last week, reaffirming and offering support for its widely challenged assertion that a 4-billion-year-old meteorite that landed thousands of years ago on Antarctica shows evidence of microscopic life on Mars.
In addition to presenting research that they said disproved some of their critics, the scientists reported that additional Martian meteorites appear to house distinct and identifiable microbial fossils that point even more strongly to the existence of life.
"We feel more confident than ever that Mars probably once was, and maybe still is, home to life," team leader David McKay said at a NASA-sponsored conference on astrobiology.
There was a time when both of these stories would have made a bigger impact on the American public, I think.
| 365 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 5:45:21pm |
re: #361 brookly red
oh oh oh but but those damn GOPers!
That too, of course.
LVQ is not wrong about them, it's just that the whole Copenhagen process et seq. is irrelevant to reality.
| 366 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:45:43pm |
re: #363 Racer X
One man, one little orange man, caused the global ecology, nay the global economy, to entirely collapse into ruin. Thats why I hate orange people.
tan in a can sucks...
| 367 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 5:46:24pm |
re: #138 windsagio
re: #136 ArchangelMichael
Don't argue with the religious extremist >>
Yeah right, because it is obviously easier to prove that God does not exist without any evidence than to prove that he does...right?
Strident atheism is every bit as bad as strident evangelicalism is, your both trying to prove something to others with no evidence that simply cannot be proved scientifically either way.
In the mean time maybe you'll do us all a favor and stop trying to "convert people" just like you constantly accuse the Christians of trying to do. :p
/I'm not trying to proselytize you to believe, please stop trying to proselytize me to disbelieve. ;)
| 368 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 5:47:16pm |
re: #364 freetoken
Changing topics a bit, it seems like two science stories have been underplayed in the general media and the blogosphere (outside of the specialist blogs dealing in these matters.)
The first being the story of the neanderthal bits and pieces in the human genome.
The second is this one:
NASA team cites new evidence that meteorites from Mars contain ancient fossils
There was a time when both of these stories would have made a bigger impact on the American public, I think.
I'll be much more impressed when the Martian life forms can participate in our economy... and we can realize some monetary return on all the money we've spent trying to prove they were there.
| 369 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:47:47pm |
re: #367 ausador
Duuuuude! You do know who I was calling a religious extremist, right?
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or what :P
| 370 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 5:48:00pm |
re: #364 freetoken
That is wonderful. I have long felt that life is more the driving force given any chance, rather than the rare aberration. Just referring to points made upthread, that fact would increase my faith. God being everywhere within his living creations.
| 371 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:49:07pm |
re: #368 Walter L. Newton
Oy walter, you were asking me a series of questions, and then it just kinda petered out. Do you remember what you were gettin' at? ;)
| 372 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:49:38pm |
re: #368 Walter L. Newton
I'll be much more impressed when the Martian life forms can participate in our economy... and we can realize some monetary return on all the money we've spent trying to prove they were there.
/a voter registered by ACORN was named Martian Q. Lifeforms... they are here.
| 373 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 5:49:54pm |
re: #369 windsagio
Duuude! You do know who I was calling a religious extremist, right?
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or what :P
Wow... you're batting a 1000 tonight.
| 374 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 5:50:37pm |
re: #371 windsagio
Oy walter, you were asking me a series of questions, and then it just kinda petered out. Do you remember what you were gettin' at? ;)
Yes.
| 375 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:51:20pm |
| 376 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 5:52:04pm |
re: #369 windsagio
Duuude! You do know who I was calling a religious extremist, right?
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or what :P
How would I know if your trying to be sarcastic or not, you didn't add a farkin tag, and yes I was being completely serious. Your post certainly read as if it was serious, if it doesn't apply then I guess you don't have to take it personally do you? :p
| 378 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:52:54pm |
re: #376 ausador
I was calling the militant atheist a religious extremist.
| 379 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:53:45pm |
| 380 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:55:44pm |
re: #378 windsagio
I was calling the militant atheist a religious extremist.
non religious extremest no? uh-oh a new group for Janet to worry about...
/yes, atheists, anarchists... it is becoming clearer now...
| 381 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 5:55:50pm |
re: #292 LudwigVanQuixote
OK so please explain it to me.
You made a very interesting statement. that you would be less human if you killed Larry.
How would you be less human? Humans kill all the time. If you remove a spiritual level to this question, how can you even make that statement?
I believe that murder does damage the soul, but that is a religious statement. Without invoking some sort of spirituality, how do you say what you are saying though?
Humans kill for different reasons. So do "gods".
I am a member of humanity and I value what most of us consider valuable. Sentient life is one such thing. Non sentient too, as a part of the whole. I have no problem if you want to consider that concept spiritual in the emotional sense of the word, since we are emotional beings.
My difference with you, I think, is that you don't think you can find something spiritual without either believing it is shared by something outside humanity, or perhaps believing you have it because it is imposed upon you.
| 382 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 5:55:58pm |
| 383 |
cenotaphium Fri, May 7, 2010 5:56:37pm |
Seems like a lot of confusion on this topic is brought about by two different ways of saying the same thing. I've illustrated this before, but once more can't hurt.
One common idea of what separates atheism from theism is a linear scale:
Atheist - Agnostic - Theist
The idea being that atheism is a positive rejection of all gods (as in "I believe there are no gods"), and agnostic something from a passive rejection ("I do not believe there are gods") to some sort of deist "maybe" or just "who cares".
Another way to look at it is much more common among self-professed atheists - instead of using a linear scale, we visualize it as two intersecting axes.
Atheist - Theist on one axis, and Gnostic - Agnostic on the other axis.
Illustrated nicely here.
The point of this is to clarify the "strong" and "weak" positions of both atheism and theism. It is an important distinction to make.
I would agree that the statement "I believe there are no gods" is logically tenuous (it's an assertion of certainty over an unprovable matter). The statement "I do not believe there are any gods" is not. That is called "weak atheism", or "passive atheism" - or by the linear system mentioned earlier, to great confusion, "agnosticism".
I'd also make the point that the logically problematic "strong theism" group is far more populous than the "strong atheism" one.
In absolute numbers. Relative to populations would be tricky, since we'd have to discuss "implicit atheism" and its relevance.
| 384 |
swamprat Fri, May 7, 2010 5:57:48pm |
All of you, who don't believe as I believe, will suffer in eternal pain and anguish.
.
.
.
.
To find out the true path to avoid eternal suffering and anguish, send a self-addressed envelope, and a check or money order...
| 385 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:57:56pm |
re: #383 cenotaphium
Seems like a lot of confusion on this topic is brought about by two different ways of saying the same thing. I've illustrated this before, but once more can't hurt.
One common idea of what separates atheism from theism is a linear scale:
Atheist - Agnostic - TheistThe idea being that atheism is a positive rejection of all gods (as in "I believe there are no gods"), and agnostic something from a passive rejection ("I do not believe there are gods") to some sort of deist "maybe" or just "who cares".
Another way to look at it is much more common among self-professed atheists - instead of using a linear scale, we visualize it as two intersecting axes.
Atheist - Theist on one axis, and Gnostic - Agnostic on the other axis.Illustrated nicely here.
The point of this is to clarify the "strong" and "weak" positions of both atheism and theism. It is an important distinction to make.
I would agree that the statement "I believe there are no gods" is logically tenuous (it's an assertion of certainty over an unprovable matter). The statement "I do not believe there are any gods" is not. That is called "weak atheism", or "passive atheism" - or by the linear system mentioned earlier, to great confusion, "agnosticism".I'd also make the point that the logically problematic "strong theism" group is far more populous than the "strong atheism" one.
In absolute numbers. Relative to populations would be tricky, since we'd have to discuss "implicit atheism" and its relevance.
/damn you
| 386 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:57:58pm |
re: #380 brookly red
calling him religious was the whole point of the exercise tho'.
| 387 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 5:58:55pm |
re: #382 Racer X
would have been better if you'd responded to the post about avatars upthread ;)
| 388 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 7, 2010 5:58:59pm |
"Islam is a degenerate meme, and to the extent that it is actually followed, its expression leads to nonsense and persecution."
- Barrett Brown
Fascinating.
| 389 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 5:59:29pm |
re: #384 swamprat
All of you, who don't believe as I believe, will suffer in eternal pain and anguish.
.
.
.
.
To find out the true path to avoid eternal suffering and anguish, send a self-addressed envelope, and a check or money order...
"Hello, this is Homer Simpson aka Happy Dude! The court has ordered me to call every person in town to apologize for my telemarketing scam. I'm sorry. If you can find it in your heart to forgive me, send one dollar to : Sorry Dude, 742 Evergreen Terrace, Springfield. You have the power!"
| 390 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 5:59:42pm |
re: #386 windsagio
calling him religious was the whole point of the exercise tho'.
The exercise is clear. Needle Walter every chance you get. You don't like him. Got it. Find a new toy.
| 391 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 5:59:48pm |
re: #386 windsagio
calling him religious was the whole point of the exercise tho'.
/calling an atheist religious to discredit them ? brilliantly leftist!
| 392 |
swamprat Fri, May 7, 2010 5:59:52pm |
re: #378 windsagio
I was calling the militant atheist a religious extremist.
The one in the tee shirt, or the one with the beard, or the guy with the tennis shoes, or did you mean the short one in .....
?
| 393 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:00:54pm |
re: #390 Racer X
WTF man, why do you think I was talking about Walter?
Since it's come to this, I was talking about b_sharp.
I like walter alot, I think we rate as 'internet friends'. He is a bit sensitive for my tastes tho :P
| 394 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:01:39pm |
re: #142 LudwigVanQuixote
re: #126 b_sharpAn atheist says we can rule out the existence of a god even though it is not possible to logically prove a negative because the preponderance of evidence shows a god is not only not necessary but not possible given the physical laws as we understand them.
If physical laws as we understand them allowed yu[o] to make this claim, you would have a point. However,they do not. How do Maxwell's equations or QM or SR or chemistry or biology rule out God?
You've made a very bold statement. How do you support it?
That depends on how you define god doesn't it? If you define God as a physical being, or even an energy being, then I can't support that last sentence. If he/she/it is something that is observable, measurable, detectable in any way, then my comment is suspect. However, that also poses a problem for believers because we haven't detected a god, despite our ability to detect everything from Quasars to Fermions and Bosons. If I'm wrong about god being impossible according to current science, then we should be able to test for his/her/its existence. We haven't. That we haven't is strong evidence against the existence. This is basically the same evidence we use to disregard unicorns, Zeus and Odin.
On the other hand, if as many I have argued with tell me, God is not detectable, not mass, not energy, then the equations you mentioned are not applicable. If the physical laws, as we currently know them, can be used to describe and define reality then by definition, a god would have to be within their boundaries to be considered possible (see above). Only if we accept that the boundaries set by current knowledge are permeable can we accept the existence of something without mass/energy. I have it on trusted authority that isn't likely.
I will not bother reserving that bit of space because it would be a waste. However if the evidence changes, I will then make room, but the evidence will have to be spectacular and overturn all previous evidence against. I do not expect that to happen.
OK that is fair, but what physical, measurable, scientific evidence do you have against Him?
Are you requiring me to prove a negative? I do believe I said I couldn't do that, so why ask? That said, the evidence we have against the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent being is the complete failure of any putative instance of his existence to pass inspection. So far, the only data we have to examine and test are the reports of the faithful and the reports in a series of stories. Simply put, they fail the tests.
An atheist is closer to science than an agnostic.
Not unless you can back up your remarkable claim.
My claim is that an atheist embodies the philosophy of science, and the methods of science better, than an agnostic. I did not claim anyone has 100% proof god does not exist. I did however claim science does not demand or even expect a 100% confidence level.
I suggest you reread my original post to see that.
Please LVQ, do not put words in my mouth and then demand I prove them.
| 395 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:01:57pm |
re: #393 windsagio
and I"ll note, B_S got it, and was cool about the dig.
Cuz we might not agree on the subject, but he can handle a little rough-and-tumble.
| 396 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 6:02:10pm |
re: #383 cenotaphium
Nice work reducing the murkiness of the subject.
| 397 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 6:02:12pm |
re: #393 windsagio
WTF man, why do you think I was talking about Walter?
Since it's come to this, I was talking about b_sharp.
I like walter alot, I think we rate as 'internet friends'. He is a bit sensitive for my tastes tho :P
Try a shot of gin first, I taste better.
| 398 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:03:09pm |
re: #397 Walter L. Newton
I dunno we're that kind of friends yet, man >>
| 399 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:03:11pm |
re: #390 Racer X
The exercise is clear. Needle Walter every chance you get. You don't like him. Got it. Find a new toy.
???
| 400 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:03:13pm |
re: #152 Cato the Elder
Mmm...warm and snuggly Science! Come a little closer, baby.
And fuck that slut, Truth.
Define truth.
Define reality without science.
Go ahead, I dare you.
| 401 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 6:04:13pm |
and now it is time for the faithful and the atheists alike to join together and be grateful for beer & pizza, Selah!
| 403 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:04:47pm |
re: #164 Varek Raith
It's because b_sharp dissed Thor...
He deserved it. He pissed on my brother Loki.
| 404 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:05:09pm |
re: #402 Racer X
Apparently Walter thought I meant him too, so maybe I wasn't as clear as I meant it to be >>
we're cool tho'
| 405 |
Charles Johnson Fri, May 7, 2010 6:05:12pm |
Are they still ranting away at me in the Cinco de Mayo thread because I don't support using the American flag as a bullying tool?
What a clusterfark.
| 406 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 6:05:24pm |
re: #400 b_sharp
Define truth.
Define reality without science.
Go ahead, I dare you.
today sucked... get over it.
| 407 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:05:54pm |
re: #405 Charles
I think its funny, but its not my blog having shit thrown on it.
Amazing restraint on not just throwing bans around tho >>
| 409 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:06:19pm |
re: #405 Charles
It's like the red spot on Jupiter, it's an eternal storm now!
| 410 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:06:28pm |
re: #170 HoosierHoops
If I get hit during the play-offs..Well I'll...
/So far so good..I can tell the power is going to go out..A couple of years in Indiana with these storms..You know shit is going down...
I hope things don't get too dicey for you.
| 411 |
swamprat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:07:15pm |
re: #400 b_sharp
Define reality without science.
Reality without science is like a sundae without chocolate syrup.
| 412 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:07:20pm |
| 413 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 6:07:39pm |
re: #394 b_sharp
It is rare that a person opens up his Soul about God on Blogs...You have shown courage and self Honesty to the world...You won't get attacked tonight for that post...OK Lizards..No more talking about God...Things tend to go over the top when somebody brings up God or Religion...
| 414 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:07:55pm |
re: #405 Charles
Are they still ranting away at me in the Cinco de Mayo thread because I don't support using the American flag as a bullying tool?
What a clusterfark.
Maybe we should have another thread on whatever aspect of the developing outrage seems most appropriate tomorrow to really beat the bushes?
| 416 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 6:08:06pm |
re: #405 Charles
Are they still ranting away at me in the Cinco de Mayo thread because I don't support using the American flag as a bullying tool?
What a clusterfark.
I disagree with you on this one too. Doesn't mean we can't get drunk while fishing.
| 417 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:08:31pm |
re: #415 windsagio
Good lord what's that from?
Just what it looks like it's from, it's Hogan's entrance music :D
| 419 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 7, 2010 6:09:22pm |
re: #416 Racer X
I disagree with you on this one too. Doesn't mean we can't get drunk while fishing.
Did you see my post on that yesterday? It wasn't about the flags, they were taunting other students.
| 420 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:09:24pm |
re: #170 HoosierHoops
If I get hit during the play-offs..Well I'll...
/So far so good..I can tell the power is going to go out..A couple of years in Indiana with these storms..You know shit is going down...
Gas generator, maybe? :D
| 421 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 6:09:26pm |
re: #328 Walter L. Newton
No, it's out of my respect to those who believe... hows that jerk?
Is this not one of those things that applies to the believer, not the non believer?
In other words, they are supposed to use a certain spelling. Do they care what you do?
| 423 |
Ojoe Fri, May 7, 2010 6:10:09pm |
re: #368 Walter L. Newton
Walter can you link to the Neanderthal story?
It interests me; I've always thought I was one.
| 424 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:10:11pm |
| 425 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:10:50pm |
| 426 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 6:11:14pm |
re: #405 Charles
Are they still ranting away at me in the Cinco de Mayo thread because I don't support using the American flag as a bullying tool?
What a clusterfark.
I don't know from this came but the entire purpose of a flag is to define property & allegiance, no?
| 427 |
cenotaphium Fri, May 7, 2010 6:11:15pm |
re: #396 Rightwingconspirator
Nice work reducing the murkiness of the subject.
Thank you.
Identifying that as a cause of a lot of grief took way more time than it should have. I guess it's the general volatility of the subject - no time to stop to make sure everyone's got the same definitions.
| 428 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 6:11:30pm |
re: #412 WindUpBird
The amount of money that's been made off of the reflexive tribalism of many Americans is staggering.
| 429 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 6:11:46pm |
re: #419 Killgore Trout
Did you see my post on that yesterday? It wasn't about the flags, they were taunting other students.
I did not see that.
They tend to do stuff like that in high school.
| 430 |
swamprat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:12:00pm |
re: #413 HoosierHoops
It is rare that a person opens up his Soul about God on Blogs...You have shown courage and self Honesty to the world...You won't get attacked tonight for that post...OK Lizards..No more talking about God...Things tend to go over the top when somebody brings up God or Religion...
The hell you say! That is just the sort of thing they said in Germany under the Third R....
oops
I'm doing it, aren't I?
| 431 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:12:04pm |
re: #426 brookly red
I don't know from this came but the entire purpose of a flag is to define property & allegiance, no?
We stole countries with the cunning use of flags!
| 432 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 6:13:09pm |
re: #420 WindUpBird
Gas generator, maybe? :D
We got so lucky Bird..Storm just blew on by...I'm opening the swimming pool in the morning..That's right..The pool will be 40 degrees and sure death upon diving..I don't care..It's springtime in Indiana..Pool gets opened in the morning..:)
| 434 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 6:13:58pm |
re: #408 freetoken
You're clearly not a real American, eh?
When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice-president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates, had the following exchange with then-Vice-President Bush.
Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?
Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.
Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?
Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?
Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.
| 435 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:15:39pm |
re: #434 Naso Tang
When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice-president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates, had the following exchange with then-Vice-President Bush.
Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.
Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?
Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.
Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?
Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.
And this is the older wiser Bush!
| 436 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:16:12pm |
re: #434 Naso Tang
I can't help but notice which faction here keeps bringing this subject back up >>
| 437 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 6:17:17pm |
re: #431 jamesfirecat
We stole countries with the cunning use of flags!
[Video]
I won't get into "we" but uniforms, gang signs, steeples & mitterrands, flags whatever ... all part of the human existance
| 438 |
lostlakehiker Fri, May 7, 2010 6:18:03pm |
re: #198 LudwigVanQuixote
I understand. My mom has similar problems. She has recently started cussing up a storm I am told. She too does not want to take pain killers until she is about to fall over.
I really think that taking the prescribed dosage if you are actually hurting will not lead to addiction or lead to any long term harm.
Fits with what I've seen. Someone I knew well was given heroin when morphine failed. He didn't become addicted. He did report that it floats you away. Not to recommend the stuff, because it's very addictive in other contexts. And this guy had quit smoking cold turkey and made it stick first time, so maybe he wasn't all that susceptible to addictive substances.
| 439 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 6:18:34pm |
re: #434 Naso Tang
That story has some fame, but has anyone shown it to be definitively true, or false?
| 440 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 6:19:14pm |
re: #436 windsagio
I can't help but notice which faction here keeps bringing this subject back up >>
Hello windy. Having trouble coming up with something interesting, are you?
| 441 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 6:20:16pm |
re: #419 Killgore Trout
Did you see my post on that yesterday? It wasn't about the flags, they were taunting other students.
Ahh. Found your post on the subject. That makes it a little more clear then. These students were not reprimanded for wearing a shirt. They were being disruptive. Others wore similar shirts with no problem.
Thanks for the clarification.
| 442 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 7, 2010 6:20:54pm |
re: #440 Naso Tang
Hello windy. Having trouble coming up with something interesting, are you?
He has a very tough job here.
| 443 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:20:57pm |
re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote
re: #157 b_sharp
So what? I don't need to have 100% proof of that, all I need is for the evidence to be convincing.What convincing evidence against God's existence do you have? That is all I ma asking. I am not asking for 100% evidence or even 5% evidence. What evidence at all, that is physical, measurable and scientific do you have against His existence do you have?
Read my previous comment.
How small does the place a god, or God, could possibly hide have to be, before we accept that he/she/it doesn't exist? That God hiding place keeps getting smaller and smaller.
Respectfully, you are making sloppy work of Feynman's argument.
Respectfully, I've not read Feynman's argument, this is my argument. If you want to see the genesis of it, go search for my name at Free Republic.
When Feynman made that argument he was more careful in what he said.
Good for him. When I originally developed my idea, I was more careful. Search Free Republic, and ask The Curmudgeon, he was there.
If you mean that more and more of the physical world is explained by science as we go on, then yes of course. However, in his arguments he was referring to ancient pagans as examples - even though he falsely extended it to monotheists. If you are a pagan and you worship natural phenomena, then yes indeed, science is going to come and clean your clock, because natural phenomena are subject to scientific investigation.
But that does not apply to God as conceived by monotheism.
OK, now you've made an assertion that needs to be explained, and I suspect, backed up.
Why is God different? Both are social constructs to explain phenomena, and to control others. For a God to be used to explain natural phenomena does not demand nature worship, just a lack of understanding.
Why does the idea of a god/God have a different standard of disproof than everything else? The existence of Thor doesn't need to be 100% disproved for it to be rejected. Yahweh is no different.Thor is a god of thunder. Thunder is a natural phenomena caused by the interactions of electromagnetism and fluid dynamics. God is conceived as the creator of those physical principles. Hence there is no contradiction in the case of God.
That is an irrelevant and arbitrary distinction. All you've done is back up a step.
| 444 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:20:58pm |
re: #440 Naso Tang
not at all :P
The point is, there's a pattern where people just can't let being challenged on the subject of theism go, no matter what.
What I'm implying (but can't prove, of course) is that there's some underlying psychology or insecurity there that leads to this... Which ties in to my pet theory about the subject >
| 446 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:21:53pm |
re: #173 Cato the Elder
If I come to die and find myself turned away from Valhalla by Thor along with all the other deluded Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Animists, Pantheists and the rest, I will at least be able to take comfort in the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Atheists amongst the crowd.
Pascal's wager. (roll eyes)
| 447 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:22:59pm |
re: #444 windsagio
not at all :P
The point is, there's a pattern where people just can't let being challenged on the subject of theism go, no matter what.
What I'm implying (but can't prove, of course) is that there's some underlying psychology or insecurity there that leads to this... Which ties in to my pet theory about the subject >
It's so much more fun to believe in an undefiniable higher power that could be a Loving God, could be a cloud, could be the earth itself, could be an intergalactic hive of space beetles :D
You never know! It's a surprise!
| 448 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 6:23:03pm |
re: #446 b_sharp
Pascal's wager. (roll eyes)
In Cato's case, perhaps a better phrase would be Pascal's Bingo.
| 449 |
cenotaphium Fri, May 7, 2010 6:23:11pm |
re: #444 windsagio
What I'm implying (but can't prove, of course) is that there's some underlying psychology or insecurity there that leads to this... Which ties in to my pet theory about the subject
With that much of a build-up you leave out the saucy "pet theory"? Come on, spill the beans. It has to do with a small penis and a strange relationship to mother, doesn't it? :(
| 450 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 6:23:31pm |
re: #439 freetoken
That story has some fame, but has anyone shown it to be definitively true, or false?
Snopes says it has never been denied. Experience makes it totally believable to me, but feel free to research.
| 451 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:23:41pm |
| 452 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:24:27pm |
re: #447 WindUpBird
In one of the Star Trek's, didn't they say something about death being the real final frontier?
| 453 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 6:24:34pm |
re: #444 windsagio
not at all :P
The point is, there's a pattern where people just can't let being challenged on the subject of theism go, no matter what.
What I'm implying (but can't prove, of course) is that there's some underlying psychology or insecurity there that leads to this... Which ties in to my pet theory about the subject >
Well... I can blow that theory out of the water... I rarely argue belief... I don't care what you believe...
On LGF, I will argue theology, I will argue textual criticism of certain holy books I'm familiar with.
If you claim you faith is informed by you knowledge or understanding or even belief in holy scriptures, than I can knock that foundation right out from under you.
But I don't find any insecurity in the fact that you believe.
| 454 |
Ojoe Fri, May 7, 2010 6:24:51pm |
re: #443 b_sharp
Why is God different? Both are social constructs to explain phenomena, and to control others. For a God to be used to explain natural phenomena does not demand nature worship, just a lack of understanding.
God is the uncaused cause, outside of time itself.
Any social construct comes later.
| 455 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:25:12pm |
re: #451 WindUpBird
WE GOT THE TOOLS
WE GOT THE TALENT
WHEN ALL HELLS BREAKING LOOSE YOU'LL BE RIGHT IN THE EYE OF THE STORM!
| 456 |
cenotaphium Fri, May 7, 2010 6:25:22pm |
re: #447 WindUpBird
It's so much more fun to believe in an undefiniable higher power that could be a Loving God, could be a cloud, could be the earth itself, could be an intergalactic hive of space beetles :D
You never know! It's a surprise!
So god is like 15 bad Star Trek plots all wrapped in one?
Why would a.. GOD.. need a.. SPACESHIP?
| 457 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:25:23pm |
re: #449 cenotaphium
haha. I think it has to do with insecurity :P
A need to feel smarter, special, generally superior to the mundanes.
| 458 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 6:25:47pm |
re: #453 Walter L. Newton
Your... your... why can't I find the "r" instead of "you"
| 459 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:26:05pm |
re: #450 Naso Tang
Snopes says it has never been denied. Experience makes it totally believable to me, but feel free to research.
Either way, who cares what Bush Sr said on the trail, he's not president anymore!
| 460 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:26:19pm |
re: #453 Walter L. Newton
Not talking about you Walter, you're pretty levelheaded on the subject.
There are plenty of examples of what I'm talking about in this thread tho'.
| 461 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 6:26:25pm |
re: #444 windsagio
not at all :P
The point is, there's a pattern where people just can't let being challenged on the subject of theism go, no matter what.
What I'm implying (but can't prove, of course) is that there's some underlying psychology or insecurity there that leads to this... Which ties in to my pet theory about the subject >
That's a dumbass statement. It is an interesting subject to just about anyone and some threads are more conducive to it than others; but feel free to feed your pet theories, on the very same subject.
| 462 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:26:27pm |
re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote
What about the social bonds used to kill other groups? You have to be very careful with the minefield (no pun intended) that line of reasoning goes down.
I agree that there is a selective pressure on our species to maintain group bonds. However, that does not remove the possibility that God intended it that way.
God can do anything (or nothing). Therefore nothing can be used to disprove him. I get your point. I just think it is a strange way to live.
| 463 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:26:46pm |
re: #455 jamesfirecat
WHEN ALL HELLS BREAKING LOOSE YOU'LL BE RIGHT IN THE EYE OF THE STORM!
YOU GOT THE TOUCH
YOU GOT THE POOOOWWWERRRR
YEAH!!!
(holds up Matrix of Leadership, Unicron rips himself apart)
| 464 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 6:26:56pm |
re: #405 Charles
Are they still ranting away at me in the Cinco de Mayo thread because I don't support using the American flag as a bullying tool?
What a clusterfark.
It is still going. And beekiller has informed me of the existence of a group called Tea Party Patriots of Silicon Valley. They're rallying for 'the patriotic teens'.
Has anyone here read Avi's "Nothing But The Truth"?
| 465 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:27:08pm |
| 466 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 6:27:17pm |
re: #459 WindUpBird
Either way, who cares what Bush Sr said on the trail, he's not president anymore!
Like father, like son(s)?
| 467 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:27:20pm |
re: #455 jamesfirecat
congratulations, you struck the main nerve of my childhood :D
| 469 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 6:28:01pm |
re: #416 Racer X
I disagree with you on this one too. Doesn't mean we can't get drunk while fishing.
You haven't called him 'Chuck', or endlessly repeated bizarre talking points, though. It does make a difference.
| 471 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:28:35pm |
re: #468 Racer X
a new thread so the people that wanna be on lgf but don't wanna read this >>
Otherwise, stopping us would be ruining it for everyone getting their needs met :D
| 472 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:28:38pm |
re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote
What about the social bonds used to kill other groups? You have to be very careful with the minefield (no pun intended) that line of reasoning goes down.
I agree that there is a selective pressure on our species to maintain group bonds. However, that does not remove the possibility that God intended it that way.
Genetic distance degrades those bonds, social constructs make substitution of bonds other than genetics easier.
| 473 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:28:49pm |
| 474 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 6:28:52pm |
re: #429 Racer X
I did not see that.
They tend to do stuff like that in high school.
They also tend to get in trouble over it. Major part of high school life.
| 475 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:29:23pm |
re: #466 Naso Tang
Like father, like son(s)?
I'm afraid of the access and po of so-con theocrat goons like Focus on the Family and company as much as the next guy, but I don't think atheism is in any danger.
| 476 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:29:38pm |
| 477 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:30:14pm |
| 478 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:30:38pm |
re: #473 jamesfirecat
In a good way?
yeah! I've probably seen Transformers the Movie (the 80's one!) over 50 times. :D
"TELL GRIMLOCK ABOUT PETRORABBITS"
| 479 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:30:55pm |
| 480 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 6:31:05pm |
re: #427 cenotaphium
Agreed. Confusion over terms in philosophy can only obscure.
| 481 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 6:31:15pm |
re: #446 b_sharp
Pascal's wager. (roll eyes)
Terry Pratchett proposes another version of that, where the philosopher explains his belief as a failsafe, and after death finds himself surrounded by annoyed deities with clubs who plan to demonstrate what they think of smart-ass philosophers.
| 482 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:31:32pm |
re: #474 SanFranciscoZionist
They also tend to get in trouble over it. Major part of high school life.
I got detention once for calling someone a "butthole".
| 483 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 7, 2010 6:31:33pm |
| 484 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:31:45pm |
re: #481 SanFranciscoZionist
Somebody actually threw out a reverse Pascal's Wager upthread, was pretty happenin' :)
| 485 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:32:22pm |
re: #199 Cato the Elder
Your point being?
There is no duality. The conscious is not separate from the electrochemical processes in the brain.
| 486 |
swamprat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:32:32pm |
re: #428 freetoken
The amount of money that's been made off of the reflexive tribalism of many Americans is staggering.
A friend of mine told me of his childhood, delivering these little papers, in different ethnic neighborhoods.
The Polish paper had stories about about how the Italians were scheming to do this or that. The Italian paper had similar stories about the Poles and the Germans. The German paper had stories about how the Italians and Poles were trying to get one over on the Germans... And on, and on, in several different ethnic neighborhoods
One guy.
One guy.
One guy, and only one guy, wrote and published all these little neighborhood papers.
He wasn't a racist. He just wanted to sell papers
| 487 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:32:51pm |
re: #456 cenotaphium
So god is like 15 bad Star Trek plots all wrapped in one?
Why would a.. GOD.. need a.. SPACESHIP?
I hope so! Wouldn't that be great? :D
| 488 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 6:33:23pm |
re: #475 WindUpBird
I'm afraid of the access and po of so-con theocrat goons like Focus on the Family and company as much as the next guy, but I don't think atheism is in any danger.
Danger, no, but to be president an atheist would have to be a hypocrite and a liar. Perhaps that's why we haven't had any, or have we?
| 489 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 6:33:30pm |
re: #469 SanFranciscoZionist
You haven't called him 'Chuck', or endlessly repeated bizarre talking points, though. It does make a difference.
Of course not. That would be rude. This is Charles' blog. His rules. I have no problem with that. I disagree with many people here. Not a problem.
If you disagree with someone in real life you don't whine and bitch and revert to name calling. It is impolite. Same rules should apply in cyberspace. I don't get the knuckleheads who show up and dis the guy who runs the blog. Then they whine about how he silenced their opinion. Like they would be passive if the roles were reversed and this was their blog.
| 490 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:33:58pm |
re: #486 swamprat
A friend of mine told me of his childhood, delivering these little papers, in different ethnic neighborhoods.
The Polish paper had stories about about how the Italians were scheming to do this or that. The Italian paper had similar stories about the Poles and the Germans. The German paper had stories about how the Italians and Poles were trying to get one over on the Germans... And on, and on, in several different ethnic neighborhoods
One guy.
One guy.
One guy, and only one guy, wrote and published all these little neighborhood papers.
He wasn't a racist. He just wanted to sell papers
By any chance did he have a name like "Cut my own throat" Dibbler?
| 491 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:34:07pm |
re: #201 Walter L. Newton
Yes it is... and it's also very clear on which city to invade, which populations were worth saving, and which one weren't, how to divide the spoils and how not to divide the spoils and what will happen if you don't follow G-d's rules of warfare.
And your also right... non-religious Nazis, Stalinists, Maoists and Khmer Rouge killed even more.
Didn't those nasties have more people available to kill and better weapons of mass destruction? Including starvation?
| 492 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:34:29pm |
re: #488 Naso Tang
Danger, no, but to be president an atheist would have to be a hypocrite and a liar. Perhaps that's why we haven't had any, or have we?
I think we may have had a couple, they just don't advertise it, yeah.
| 493 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:35:15pm |
re: #488 Naso Tang
I thought the 'we're at risk of annihilation!' was a conservative christian paranoid delusion, primarily
| 494 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 6:35:26pm |
re: #492 WindUpBird
I think we may have had a couple, they just don't advertise it, yeah.
Clinton is my bet.
| 495 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 6:35:39pm |
re: #457 windsagio
haha. I think it has to do with insecurity :P
A need to feel smarter, special, generally superior to the mundanes.
Oh so that is why you spend so much time trying to get others to abandon their belief in God?
| 496 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 6:35:48pm |
re: #466 Naso Tang
Like father, like son(s)?
Well, Bush Jr. is also not president anymore.
Jeb is not president too, but he was not president in the past. He could be president in the future, and then at some future time he would also no longer be the president.
As a matter of record, I would like to add that I find discussions about the question of God's existence, and the precise nature of atheism almost supernaturally boring.
| 497 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:36:12pm |
re: #494 Naso Tang
I'd say there have been a ton of "Don't give a damn really"s, too.
| 498 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:36:23pm |
re: #216 LudwigVanQuixote
All cost benefit ratios are by definition subjective when looked at in this way.
My religion for example, will tell you flat out that buying those jeans that were sewn by a five year old is contributing to her murder.
I am actually rather proud that we are taught that sort of awareness.
I didn't give it any moral value.
I appreciate that type of awareness as well.
| 499 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 7, 2010 6:36:36pm |
Grasping to control
So I better hold on...
Sometimes I give myself the creeps
Sometimes my mind plays tricks on me
| 500 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 6:36:41pm |
re: #486 swamprat
He wasn't a racist. He just wanted to sell papers
His name wasn't Rupert Murdoch, was it?
| 501 |
Dr. Shalit Fri, May 7, 2010 6:36:56pm |
Bottom Line IS -
"...There IS No Humor in Islam..." - Ayatollah Khomeni
Which is why being a Muslim is limiting - to Say The Least. -S-
| 502 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 7, 2010 6:36:58pm |
re: #482 WindUpBird
I got detention once for calling someone a "butthole".
My daughter's boyfriend did not graduate from high school.
Called his religion teacher a name, got kicked out of class, was not allowed to graduate.
However, he had already been accepted at a college, so he went, and is now in his 2nd year, apparently no one has checked to see if he ever graduated from HS.
I love that story.
Well, not the calling the teacher a name part. But the rest of it.
| 503 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:37:47pm |
re: #496 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah, pretty much same here.
I'd like to keep the conversation to important things, like Transformers :D
| 504 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:38:08pm |
re: #495 ausador
I'm sorry I know I'm being dense. Are you joking or not? I can't even tell anymore.
| 505 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 6:38:14pm |
re: #488 Naso Tang
Danger, no, but to be president an atheist would have to be a hypocrite and a liar. Perhaps that's why we haven't had any, or have we?
Well, Madison maybe?
| 506 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:38:35pm |
re: #222 Cato the Elder
That is not what LVQ was talking about.
You can measure brain responses to beauty? Big surprise!
Seeing a response to something explains neither the response nor the thing.
"He that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom." --Gandalf
I bow to your superior argument. Quoting a fictional character will win just about any debate.
| 507 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:38:44pm |
re: #496 SanFranciscoZionist
In fairness you can leave it to the people who don't find it boring >
| 508 |
cenotaphium Fri, May 7, 2010 6:39:05pm |
re: #484 windsagio
Somebody actually threw out a reverse Pascal's Wager upthread, was pretty happenin' :)
I always thought it made much more sense in reverse, since the essence of the argument requires the deity to judge positively or negatively soley based on an individuals belief in said deity (and acting "accordingly"). Firstly, that sounds like a pretty shitty character to worship. Secondly, if we start to clog the example with the specific details of various religions (the "accordingly"), the chance (for some reason being judged "equal") would start to peter out into a bad lottery coupon.
Then again, that would explain a whole lot. Some people will play the lottery no matter how small the chance is to win. Others would rather spend that money and time in something with a more certain dividends.
| 509 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 6:39:10pm |
re: #496 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, Bush Jr. is also not president anymore.
Jeb is not president too, but he was not president in the past. He could be president in the future, and then at some future time he would also no longer be the president.
As a matter of record, I would like to add that I find discussions about the question of God's existence, and the precise nature of atheism almost supernaturally boring.
Hear hear!
| 510 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 6:39:41pm |
| 511 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 6:40:22pm |
re: #502 reine.de.tout
My daughter's boyfriend did not graduate from high school.
Called his religion teacher a name, got kicked out of class, was not allowed to graduate.However, he had already been accepted at a college, so he went, and is now in his 2nd year, apparently no one has checked to see if he ever graduated from HS.
I love that story.
Well, not the calling the teacher a name part. But the rest of it.
Reine - I am the proud GED college graduate. It just doesn't matter. I hated high school.
| 512 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 6:40:41pm |
re: #495 ausador
Oh so that is why you spend so much time trying to get others to abandon their belief in God?
Ausador... I suspect you are confused. Windsagio is a believer and has no where in this thread, or any thread I have ever seen, tried to sway anyone from any belief in g-d, or a god or gods... Why do you keep insisting on this point? It's not so and you are sadly mistaken.
| 513 |
swamprat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:41:11pm |
re: #490 jamesfirecat
By any chance did he have a name like "Cut my own throat" Dibbler?
Don't know, but the city was St. Louis, and this guy was in his eighties when he passed about 10 years ago. Figure 1930-ish. I remember him telling me about workers hiring kids to go get beer in their lunchbuckets.
Kid sneaks a sip.
Brings the pail.
"Did you drink any?"
"No sir!"
"Good kid!"
(doesn't tell kid about the foam on his upper lip)
| 514 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:41:24pm |
re: #512 Walter L. Newton
Thanks walter :D
Now then, think up something for us to argue about, I think the audience is getting restless >>
| 515 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:41:36pm |
re: #501 Dr. Shalit
Bottom Line IS -
"...There IS No Humor in Islam..." - Ayatollah Khomeni
Which is why being a Muslim is limiting - to Say The Least. -S-
Since when has Ayatollah Khomeni had a right to speak for all of Islam?
And with that in mind...
“But Marge, it works for any ayatollah!”
| 516 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 7, 2010 6:42:05pm |
re: #511 Stanley Sea
Reine - I am the proud GED college graduate. It just doesn't matter. I hated high school.
Kudos to you!
I suspect what's going to happen (since I know someone else it happened to), before he graduates from college, someone will figure it out, and he will be required to get a GED. After he's finished college and met all the college coursework requirements for college graduation. Seems a bit silly to me, but hey . . . what do I know?
| 517 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 6:42:14pm |
re: #504 windsagio
I'm sorry I know I'm being dense. Are you joking or not? I can't even tell anymore.
I'm getting tired of Ausador being a fucking jerk. No where in this thread or any thread I can remember have you ever tried to sway anyone from their belief... as you mentioned above, you are a PseudoHippie Christian.
| 518 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:42:29pm |
re: #502 reine.de.tout
My daughter's boyfriend did not graduate from high school.
Called his religion teacher a name, got kicked out of class, was not allowed to graduate.However, he had already been accepted at a college, so he went, and is now in his 2nd year, apparently no one has checked to see if he ever graduated from HS.
I love that story.
Well, not the calling the teacher a name part. But the rest of it.
Hah! I dig it. :D
The only time I really gave a teacher hell, it was a substitute teacher for my Pascal programming class who wouldn't let me turn in my final project because I was busy being the unofficial teacher's aide, helping everyone out. my project was done, it just physically wasn't on his desk when the bell rang) so he wouldn't accept my project that i had worked for 2 weeks on. I just sorta lost it, called him a bunch of nasty stuff, kicked over a trash can, punched a locker, and left. Next day, all was well, my ACTUAL programming teacher explained that I was her star student and there must have been a misunderstanding. And I was nice to the sub next time I had a class with him. All is forgiven, sir! Just don't get between a nerd and his painstakingly crafted sorting routines :D
| 519 |
lostlakehiker Fri, May 7, 2010 6:43:10pm |
re: #444 windsagio
not at all :P
The point is, there's a pattern where people just can't let being challenged on the subject of theism go, no matter what.
What I'm implying (but can't prove, of course) is that there's some underlying psychology or insecurity there that leads to this... Which ties in to my pet theory about the subject >
Believers aren't going to concede that you've disproved God. For one thing, you haven't. You can't. For another, you aren't bringing any original, deep, shattering insight to the table. Anything you say has been said before. It's been dismissed before.
Atheists aren't going to concede that you've proved God is real. You can't do that either, at least not by typing away at a post on a blog.
There's no need to slide in talk about "insecurities". No evidence for the claim either. Stout believers are psychologically pretty solid; they held up better than your average G.I. Joe in N Korean POW camps. And some Russian NKVD commissar type was one of the leaders of the least unsuccessful rebellion at Auschwitz, by report of Miklos Nyisli, an MD (pathologist) camp prisoner who was a witness to it and lived to tell.
Miklos Nyisli, Auschwitz: A Doctor's Eyewitness Account, Arcade Paperbacks (1960)
| 520 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 6:43:30pm |
re: #506 b_sharp
I bow to your superior argument. Quoting a fictional character will win just about any debate.
Oh, stuff it.
| 521 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:43:53pm |
re: #507 windsagio
In fairness you can leave it to the people who don't find it boring >
Athiesm < corvette engine displacement
I don't know if God exists. What I DO know is I want 400 HP under my right foot :D
| 522 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 6:44:03pm |
re: #514 windsagio
Thanks walter :D
Now then, think up something for us to argue about, I think the audience is getting restless >>
the flag! the flag!
| 523 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, May 7, 2010 6:44:08pm |
re: #501 Dr. Shalit
Bottom Line IS -
"...There IS No Humor in Islam..." - Ayatollah Khomeni
Which is why being a Muslim is limiting - to Say The Least. -S-
I'm not sure I would take Khomeni's word on that.
| 524 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 6:44:47pm |
re: #504 windsagio
I'm sorry I know I'm being dense. Are you joking or not? I can't even tell anymore.
I told you the last time you asked that in this thread that I was not joking so I guess your just being dense on purpose, kinda.
you left yourself wide open for that one and are also being extremely rude by trying to argue everyone else here to accept your beliefs even after numerous posted have posted that they would like it to stop.
I'll make it plainer for you:
STFU about religion already!!! Please?
| 525 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 6:45:03pm |
re: #514 windsagio
Thanks walter :D
Now then, think up something for us to argue about, I think the audience is getting restless >>
actually I don't get the restless thing, I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe , and the next guy believes what they believe... it is what it is.
| 526 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 6:45:13pm |
re: #516 reine.de.tout
Kudos to you!
I suspect what's going to happen (since I know someone else it happened to), before he graduates from college, someone will figure it out, and he will be required to get a GED. After he's finished college and met all the college coursework requirements for college graduation. Seems a bit silly to me, but hey . . . what do I know?
It's a test. I don't know if you are required to take classes for it, but it's a one day test, that he will ace.
I bet they never catch it though.
| 527 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, May 7, 2010 6:45:20pm |
re: #509 Stanley Sea
Hear hear!
Is it correctly "hear hear", or "here here"? Both make sense; the former urging others to listen, and the latter proclaiming that agreement can be found 'here'.
| 528 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 6:45:21pm |
re: #523 SanFranciscoZionist
I'm not sure I would take Khomeni's word on that.
The guy makes me laugh.
| 529 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 6:45:23pm |
re: #514 windsagio
Thanks walter :D
Now then, think up something for us to argue about, I think the audience is getting restless >>
Ok... progressive talk show host Thom Hartmann was talking the other day and basically blaming the Obama administration for the BP oil spill problem Something about the administration and some agency sliding by some licensing stuff, or proofs of this or that that BP got a pass on... whatever... Hartmann, being really far left, of course, is disappointed in the way Obama has handled the oil companies in general.
| 530 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:45:24pm |
re: #522 Stanley Sea
the flag! the flag!
The fringe on the flag means it's not the real flag
also income tax is voluntary
| 531 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:45:43pm |
re: #525 brookly red
actually I don't get the restless thing, I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe , and the next guy believes what they believe... it is what it is.
I believe I'll have another beer
| 532 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:45:54pm |
re: #522 Stanley Sea
You're on! But I warn you, it might get people upset :D
Do you wish to continue (MARK ONE AND ONLY ONE)?
___ YES
___ NO
| 533 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 6:46:13pm |
re: #517 Walter L. Newton
I'm getting tired of Ausador being a fucking jerk. No where in this thread or any thread I can remember have you ever tried to sway anyone from their belief... as you mentioned above, you are a PseudoHippie Christian.
Easy...Walter...Easy...
| 534 |
swamprat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:46:21pm |
re: #517 Walter L. Newton
I'm getting tired of Ausador being a fucking jerk. No where in this thread or any thread I can remember have you ever tried to sway anyone from their belief... as you mentioned above, you are a PseudoHippie Christian.
Not true Walter. Because of your persuasive arguments, I am now a militant Christian-believing, theistic, Pagan-embracing, semi-Buddhist.
I hope you're proud.
| 535 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 6:46:22pm |
| 537 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 6:46:28pm |
re: #400 b_sharp
Define truth.
Define reality without science.
Go ahead, I dare you.
Poets have defined reality without science since before recorded history began.
I piss on your doctrine of sola scientia just as I piss on sola scriptura.
| 538 |
lostlakehiker Fri, May 7, 2010 6:46:31pm |
re: #457 windsagio
haha. I think it has to do with insecurity :P
A need to feel smarter, special, generally superior to the mundanes.
How would you account for the religious views of, say, Blaise Pascal? He didn't need any crutch to feel smarter and special. He just was smarter and special.
| 539 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:47:00pm |
re: #529 Walter L. Newton
Ok... progressive talk show host Thom Hartmann was talking the other day and basically blaming the Obama administration for the BP oil spill problem Something about the administration and some agency sliding by some licensing stuff, or proofs of this or that that BP got a pass on... whatever... Hartmann, being really far left, of course, is disappointed in the way Obama has handled the oil companies in general.
I think Obama has been too weak on the oil companies and too weak on the monstrosities of wall street.
The problem is, if I'm to the left of Obama on these issues, who else do I vote for? ;-)
| 540 |
Achilles Tang Fri, May 7, 2010 6:47:02pm |
re: #496 SanFranciscoZionist
As a matter of record, I would like to add that I find discussions about the question of God's existence, and the precise nature of atheism almost supernaturally boring.
If it were a discussion about the "question" I might agree, but as a discussion about the fact, it is no more or less boring than one of, say, evolution or AGW, depending on whose talking.
As to the precise nature of atheism, I agree.
| 541 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 6:47:04pm |
re: #524 ausador
I told you the last time you asked that in this thread that I was not joking so I guess your just being dense on purpose, kinda.
you left yourself wide open for that one and are also being extremely rude by trying to argue everyone else here to accept your beliefs even after numerous posted have posted that they would like it to stop.
I'll make it plainer for you:
STFU about religion already!!! Please?
Ok... I'm mad now... are you a believer in g-d?
| 542 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:47:35pm |
re: #529 Walter L. Newton
Its impossible to blame any one administration for the 30 year pattern of letting companies do whatever-the-fuck they choose.
| 543 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 6:47:54pm |
re: #539 WindUpBird
I think Obama has been too weak on the oil companies and too weak on the monstrosities of wall street.
The problem is, if I'm to the left of Obama on these issues, who else do I vote for? ;-)
Stalin?
| 544 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 6:48:30pm |
re: #530 WindUpBird
The fringe on the flag means it's not the real flag
also income tax is voluntary
yes, I voluntarily pay it to avoid incarceration...
| 545 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:48:48pm |
re: #539 WindUpBird
I think Obama has been too weak on the oil companies and too weak on the monstrosities of wall street.
The problem is, if I'm to the left of Obama on these issues, who else do I vote for? ;-)
Kucinich?
| 546 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:50:10pm |
re: #535 brookly red
bless you.
One of these: Image: rogue%20dead%20guy%20ale%20review.jpg
Also, I have one of these in the fridge: [Link: grizzlygrowler.com...] which is about as good as a northwest heavy ale gets, it's cosmic.
| 547 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 7, 2010 6:50:13pm |
re: #542 windsagio
Its impossible to blame any one administration for the 30 year pattern of letting companies do whatever-the-fuck they choose.
Yes it is.
There is no way any of this is the President's fault.
Nor has the feds' response been "late".
They are all doing what they can do.
And the spill is BP's fault.
| 548 |
lostlakehiker Fri, May 7, 2010 6:50:29pm |
re: #516 reine.de.tout
Kudos to you!
I suspect what's going to happen (since I know someone else it happened to), before he graduates from college, someone will figure it out, and he will be required to get a GED. After he's finished college and met all the college coursework requirements for college graduation. Seems a bit silly to me, but hey . . . what do I know?
Why? A college degree can perfectly well be awarded to someone who has no other formal schooling. The diploma states that the awardee has completed the requirements for the degree. That's it.
There are people who show up from war zones and what not, having been informally home schooled but well schooled, who earn college degrees. Nobody has to go back and patch up a paper trail.
| 549 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 6:50:31pm |
re: #542 windsagio
Its impossible to blame any one administration for the 30 year pattern of letting companies do whatever-the-fuck they choose.
Hartmann's point was he doesn't feel like Obama's administration is going to be any different from any other administration in regards to this... plying it up for the fans, but not really making any meaningful changes.
I'm just passing this on, because if some of the conservatives want to think all the time that Obama is some sort of FAR FAR LEFT RADICAL, they need to listen to some real progressives, like Bernie Sanders, John Dean, Thom Hartmann or Ed Shultz...
Those folks will make you piss in your socialist pants.
| 550 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:50:42pm |
| 551 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 6:51:00pm |
re: #539 WindUpBird
I think Obama has been too weak on the oil companies and too weak on the monstrosities of wall street.
The problem is, if I'm to the left of Obama on these issues, who else do I vote for? ;-)
/if you are too left of Obama the I guess you come back around to Ron Paul...
| 552 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:51:04pm |
| 553 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 7, 2010 6:51:12pm |
re: #547 reine.de.tout
Yes it is.
There is no way any of this is the President's fault.
Nor has the feds' response been "late".They are all doing what they can do.
And the spill is BP's fault.
Ongoing Administration REsponse
Lots and lots of stuff going on.
| 554 |
jamesfirecat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:51:13pm |
re: #544 brookly red
yes, I voluntarily pay it to avoid incarceration...
Richard Nixon: My fellow Earthicans, we enjoy so much freedom, it's almost sickening. We're free to choose which hand our sex-monitoring chip is implanted in. And if we don't want to pay our taxes, why, we're free to spend a weekend with the Pain Monster!
Pain Monster: See you April 15 folks!
| 555 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 6:51:15pm |
re: #527 negativ
Is it correctly "hear hear", or "here here"? Both make sense; the former urging others to listen, and the latter proclaiming that agreement can be found 'here'.
I always wonder. (don't know) I've hesitated before, but this time just said screw it, my point will get across.
| 556 |
Racer X Fri, May 7, 2010 6:51:55pm |
I can't keep focused. This bronchitis has really kicked my ass.
Hasta La Vista
| 557 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, May 7, 2010 6:51:58pm |
Lively Lizards, this evening!
| 558 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 6:52:11pm |
re: #532 windsagio
You're on! But I warn you, it might get people upset :D
Do you wish to continue (MARK ONE AND ONLY ONE)?
___ YES
___ NO
NO, but it's a classic!
I've got to get the burgers off the grill. Will return
| 559 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, May 7, 2010 6:52:17pm |
re: #556 Racer X
I can't keep focused. This bronchitis has really kicked my ass.
Hasta La Vista
Feel better, soon!
| 560 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 7, 2010 6:52:36pm |
re: #548 lostlakehiker
Why? A college degree can perfectly well be awarded to someone who has no other formal schooling. The diploma states that the awardee has completed the requirements for the degree. That's it.
There are people who show up from war zones and what not, having been informally home schooled but well schooled, who earn college degrees. Nobody has to go back and patch up a paper trail.
Well, yes, some states do in fact require a HS diploma or GED before they will award a college degree. I personally know someone in just the situation you describe, went off to Vietnam before finishing HS, came back, attended LSU, and just before graduation, got called in and was required to get a GED.
I think it's silly.
But I don't write these rules.
| 561 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, May 7, 2010 6:52:52pm |
There are times when I begin to seriously suspect that Andy Kaufman faked his death, and currently posts on LGF under at least two pseudonyms.
| 562 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 6:53:12pm |
I mentioned this earlier, but it got no play... I went to a cheap movie house today to see "Shutter Island" What a piece of shit that was... really.
| 563 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 6:53:29pm |
re: #517 Walter L. Newton
I'm getting tired of Ausador being a fucking jerk. No where in this thread or any thread I can remember have you ever tried to sway anyone from their belief... as you mentioned above, you are a PseudoHippie Christian.
Sorry Walter apparently my spread sheet where I list every single member here's political, religious, right to life, and other significant stances that might matter has broken down tonight.
Of course when I find the time on some days to be here for a couple of hours I should know all of that and not need any clues in anyones post to tell me they are being sarcastic.
It is 100% completely my fault.
(I responded to what was typed, if he didn't mean it then he should have effing indicated that, sorry, either way it is getting very damn old even if he was being sarcastic, can we please change the subject now?)
| 564 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:53:38pm |
re: #549 Walter L. Newton
Haha, very true :D
I'm actually only margianally to the left of Obama... Mainly because I don't actually have to get anything done.
Extremism is easy when I'm just lettin' it all hang out on a blog.
To the point, I think that O is mkaing a slight mistake in allowing further drilling, the money would be better spent on other powersources (more wind/solar farms, nuclear.)
Plus I think it'd be great if we could save our reserves until well after peak production :D
| 565 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:53:56pm |
re: #248 LudwigVanQuixote
How do you know He doesn't? The core of modern physical theory has inherent randomness. This is a very important point. How do you know that He doesn't interact all the time? A wave function collapses here rather than there? Most importantly, if He does act that way, there is no mathematical or observable way you could tell.
Please tell me this isn't the quantum observer argument.
If it isn't, it's just a case of special pleading and god of the gaps.
LVQ, you are frustrating the hell out of me. You keep telling me there is no way we can have any proof against his/her/its existence. I agree. But the default should be to not accept the existence of something without evidence for it. If there was no mathematical support for the existence of a quark, would you accept its existence? I suspect you would demand the idea be explored a lot more, and have some physical test that could be run before you would stop being sceptical.
Is that not true?
If you want really good, original arguments for agnosticism over atheism, read John Wilkins' blog.
| 566 |
A Man for all Seasons Fri, May 7, 2010 6:54:29pm |
re: #557 Floral Giraffe
Lively Lizards, this evening!
Hi You!
/It's Friday night..I figure somebody is going to walk into the room with a suitcase Nuke..*wink*
| 567 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:54:37pm |
re: #562 Walter L. Newton
Yeah I saw that, just wasn't sure how t orespond.
So tell us: Why is it terrible?
| 568 |
lostlakehiker Fri, May 7, 2010 6:54:44pm |
re: #256 Varek Raith
What in the world would setting of nukes in volcanoes accomplish?
Not much. Sort of like pissing into a hurricane. It won't make much difference but it does add to the mess and it's breathtakingly stupid.
| 569 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:54:51pm |
re: #554 jamesfirecat
Richard Nixon: My fellow Earthicans, we enjoy so much freedom, it's almost sickening. We're free to choose which hand our sex-monitoring chip is implanted in. And if we don't want to pay our taxes, why, we're free to spend a weekend with the Pain Monster!
Pain Monster: See you April 15 folks!
Richard Nixon's Head: Good evening, ignorant pigs. Put down your crack pipes and your beer bongs and pay attention, as I sign a historic peace accord with ambassador Kong of planet Nintendo 64.
| 570 |
reine.de.tout Fri, May 7, 2010 6:54:56pm |
re: #562 Walter L. Newton
I mentioned this earlier, but it got no play... I went to a cheap movie house today to see "Shutter Island" What a piece of shit that was... really.
Then I'm glad I didn't see it at the theater; I do have it on my netflix queue, though. I can't tell you how many movies I've seen (netflix) that I couldn't watch all the way through, they were so awful.
I saw one today, Have You Heard About the Morgans.
It was just not good. It wasn't cute, it wasn't funny, it wasn't dramatic, it was just - nothing.
| 571 |
What, me worry? Fri, May 7, 2010 6:55:20pm |
re: #561 negativ
There are times when I begin to seriously suspect that Andy Kaufman faked his death, and currently posts on LGF under at least two pseudonyms.
Now you have to tell.
| 572 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:55:58pm |
re: #562 Walter L. Newton
I mentioned this earlier, but it got no play... I went to a cheap movie house today to see "Shutter Island" What a piece of shit that was... really.
I'm about to see the movie Human Centipede this weekend.
Which really brings new meaning to the word "shit" used to describe a film o_o
| 573 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 6:56:18pm |
| 574 |
swamprat Fri, May 7, 2010 6:57:51pm |
re: #542 windsagio
Its impossible to blame any one administration for the 30 year pattern of letting companies do whatever-the-fuck they choose.
And yet, mind-bendingly, both sides have done this for OVER 30 years. We are an amazing country!
Psst! Look up how unions came to be.
Goes back as far as Taft, I believe.
| 575 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, May 7, 2010 6:57:59pm |
The true believer is seldom satisfied with another's belief in just ANY God. For the true believer, only the belief in the true believer's very own personal belief system is tolerable, and anything less is fair game and must be corrected...gently or otherwise.
And the true atheist feels pretty much the same way.
| 576 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 6:58:45pm |
re: #574 swamprat
Unions actually prove a vital purpose, tho' :p
| 578 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 6:59:18pm |
re: #265 HoosierHoops
I know God exists in my Heart..Science has nothing to do with it...And never will...And I trash Religion here almost every day..
You shall know them by their fruit...
That's all I got to say about that
You may find this unusual, but I have no problem with your belief system. I also know most people are completely convinced of god/God's existence based on personal experience.
I'm not trying to convince anyone to give up their belief, I am trying to counter some of the strange ideas theists have of atheist beliefs. If you don't want to debate it, I respect that.
I sure the hell am not going to screw up a friendship over it.
| 579 |
Dancing along the light of day Fri, May 7, 2010 7:00:25pm |
re: #566 HoosierHoops
Hi You!
/It's Friday night..I figure somebody is going to walk into the room with a suitcase Nuke..*wink*
*boom*
Pass the wine, please?
| 580 |
brookly red Fri, May 7, 2010 7:00:32pm |
re: #574 swamprat
And yet, mind-bendingly, both sides have done this for OVER 30 years. We are an amazing country!
Psst! Look up how unions came to be.
Goes back as far as Taft, I believe.
so is there any wonder the throw them all out thingy is becoming so popular?
| 581 |
lostlakehiker Fri, May 7, 2010 7:00:39pm |
re: #527 negativ
Is it correctly "hear hear", or "here here"? Both make sense; the former urging others to listen, and the latter proclaiming that agreement can be found 'here'.
Hear, hear. Hear what he says, for he says it well.
| 582 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:00:45pm |
Bagua's oil spill vigil update™
Here is a picture of the Cameron Type TL 183/4in 15K double[blow out] preventer. There would have been two of these on the Deepwater Horizon, and one Cameron Type TL 18 3/4in 15K single preventer. And also one Cameron DWHC well head connector.
Here is the Deepwater Collet Connector (DWhc) (Picture is the Connector locked on the Hub)
| 583 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 7:01:27pm |
re: #567 windsagio
Yeah I saw that, just wasn't sure how t orespond.
So tell us: Why is it terrible?
Hmmmm... let me count the ways... Decaprio probably only spent 3 hours with a dialect coach ( cheap east coast accent)... I'm sorry, if that was suppose to be film noir, nope, Martin Scorsese doesn't know how to do noir... the music composer came from the "louder is more dramatic" school of music... the editing was horrible (I know, some of the hard edits were on purpose, hints to the real state of the characters mind) but in general, horrible editing... Ben Kingsley phoned in his performance... even in "movie time" characters don't go from insightful to ANGRY in 2 seconds... neither does STORMS... can I go on... oh... the damn plot was so evident 20 minutes in... "The Ninth Configuration" 30 years ago already covered this plot (originally released as "Twinkle Twinkle Killer Kane")... pacing stunk, scenes went on too long, plot could have been moved forward at twice the pacing...
| 584 |
Political Atheist Fri, May 7, 2010 7:01:39pm |
re: #582 Bagua
Nice to see some detail.
| 585 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 7, 2010 7:01:47pm |
The forgotten commandment: Thou shalt giveth the long stroke....
Rekers Paid Escort $75 A Day For Luggage, Massage Services
George Rekers, a leader of the ex-gay movement who was caught recently employing a male escort, paid the escort $75 a day for his services during a 10-day trip to Europe, which included carrying luggage and daily one-hour massages, according to a contract obtained by CNN.
...
He also says nothing sexual happened. Lucien, however, says the daily massages included something called "the long stroke," which included touching Rekers in rather sexual areas.The contract also suggests Rekers had employed the escort before their trip.
He was to give the massages "using the same procedures ("Lucien") provided to George Rekers in Florida."
| 586 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 7:01:55pm |
You know what, I find that it's far more fun playing with the mind of a dogmatically religious person than with the atheist equivalent.
The religious dogmatist will give you hours - days, if you string him along right - of pleasure. Heaven, hell, threats, prayers, scriptural quotations, homilies, concern-trolling your soul, you name it.
The atheist? Dull earnestness and at the very best an eye-roll.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
| 587 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:02:53pm |
re: #285 windsagio
I'll take it back if you're willing to admit that you might be wrong on the subject >>
Of course I might be wrong about the existence of God.
But I'm not wrong about how atheists think about god.
| 588 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 7:03:19pm |
re: #583 Walter L. Newton
"How did I hate it? Let me count the ways" :D
| 589 |
cenotaphium Fri, May 7, 2010 7:03:45pm |
re: #519 lostlakehiker
Believers aren't going to concede that you've disproved God. For one thing, you haven't. You can't. For another, you aren't bringing any original, deep, shattering insight to the table. Anything you say has been said before. It's been dismissed before.
Atheists aren't going to concede that you've proved God is real. You can't do that either, at least not by typing away at a post on a blog.
This is repeated (in sentiment at least) very often when the topic of belief and nonbelief comes up, and frankly I think it's one of the most disturbing claims to haunt such debates. People do change their beliefs. Maybe not as a jump from believer to nonbeliever (or vice versa) in one conversation, but certainly we are challenged to refine, restate and reevaluate our own beliefs when there's a real discussion?
I wouldn't expect a wholly original "magic bullet" argument in any contentious debate, and I don't see why debates about belief is any different.
I have personally seen people reverse their position on the subject over time on chatrooms and forums. I've revised my own positions immensly over the years, and learned a whole lot over a wide span of topics that come up.
Anyone's free to think it's a boring topic, of course. But to tell people to stop talking about it because you think the debate is meaningless seems rude to me.
| 590 |
watching you tiny alien kittens are Fri, May 7, 2010 7:04:29pm |
re: #517 Walter L. Newton
I'm getting tired of Ausador being a fucking jerk.
Sorry for stealing your accustomed role Walter, I'll hand it back over now that you found the need to whine about and all... ;)
| 591 |
freetoken Fri, May 7, 2010 7:05:46pm |
re: #565 b_sharp
Ludwig is probably off to his religious duties by now, so he may not see your reply.
| 592 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 7:06:09pm |
| 594 |
What, me worry? Fri, May 7, 2010 7:06:32pm |
re: #585 Killgore Trout
Oh my!!
Wandering around MIA, ya almost think this guy wanted to get caught.
| 595 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 7:06:44pm |
re: #590 ausador
Sorry for stealing your accustomed role Walter, I'll hand it back over now that you found the need to whine about and all... ;)
Glad to oblige...
| 596 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 7:07:07pm |
re: #585 Killgore Trout
The forgotten commandment: Thou shalt giveth the long stroke...
Rekers Paid Escort $75 A Day For Luggage, Massage Services
The forgotten grammatical rule: "-eth" is the old-fashioned third-person singular form of the verb. "He/she/it giveth." It is not to be used as an infinitive.
| 597 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 7:07:19pm |
re: #593 windsagio
it doesn't work for you? Works for me!
| 598 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:07:20pm |
re: #584 Rightwingconspirator
Nice to see some detail.
Note that Transocean has collected $481 million from a $560 million insurance policy on the Deepwater Horizon rig which was under contract to BP.
Here is the kicker, though, while Transocean share price is down about 24% since the accident, (NYSE:RIG) BP's contract for the rig indemnifies Transocean against all environmental clean-up costs and legal damages. This according to Transocean CEO Steven L. Newman on a conference call.) This is why BP appears on the hook for everything.
The disaster does raise the premiums Transocean is currently negotiating, no surprise there.
| 599 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 7:07:40pm |
re: #597 WindUpBird
I get the 'tripod totally hosted this!' image >
| 600 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Fri, May 7, 2010 7:07:58pm |
A thought on movies, having just slapped together what is probably the most boring homeschool group movie we have made...
I miss "Brian." He was a kid we had in the group that has moved. I didn't realize until today just how important it is to have one total ham in any group if you are making a "movie." Turn the camera on "Brian" and that kid owned the room.
Today? I could just have had them all hold a sign saying, "I don't actually want to do this. When is lunch?"
Last time we made a little movie they loved it.
Sigh.
| 601 |
What, me worry? Fri, May 7, 2010 7:08:17pm |
| 602 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 7:08:20pm |
re: #599 windsagio
I get the 'tripod totally hosted this!' image >
oh bollocks
try this: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 603 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 7:08:46pm |
| 604 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, May 7, 2010 7:09:44pm |
re: #598 Bagua
Note that Transocean has collected $481 million from a $560 million insurance policy on the Deepwater Horizon rig which was under contract to BP.
Here is the kicker, though, while Transocean share price is down about 24% since the accident, (NYSE:RIG) BP's contract for the rig indemnifies Transocean against all environmental clean-up costs and legal damages. This according to Transocean CEO Steven L. Newman on a conference call.) This is why BP appears on the hook for everything.
The disaster does raise the premiums Transocean is currently negotiating, no surprise there.
Is it true Transocean is basically based in Texas but is incorporated in another country? I remember hearing that
| 605 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:10:04pm |
All this suggests the steep sell off of Transocean share price may be overdone, according to an FBR Capital Markets analyst.
Hmmm... buy RIG? That seams counter intuitive.
| 606 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:11:16pm |
re: #604 WindUpBird
Is it true Transocean is basically based in Texas but is incorporated in another country? I remember hearing that
I wrote that here on LGF! It is a Houston based company, which was previously incorporated in the Cayman Islands and is currently incorporated in Switzerland.
I blame the bloody Swiss!
| 607 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 7:11:23pm |
re: #587 b_sharp
Of course I might be wrong about the existence of God.
But I'm not wrong about how atheists think about god.
Really? Atheistic thinking is monolithic?
Let me see, what other kind of thinking begins with the prefix "mono-"?
Monomaniacal, maybe?
Nah, that's not it.
Never mind, I'm sure it'll come to me later.
| 608 |
What, me worry? Fri, May 7, 2010 7:11:41pm |
re: #603 WindUpBird
It worked for me! I even previewed it! Damn tripod :(
Yes but we're looking!
Kinda killed the joke. Sorry lol
| 609 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:12:23pm |
re: #300 windsagio
-for truly awful metaphor.
Cato was implying capitalization of the word atheist adds to the evidence atheism is a religion. I simply supplied a case where capitalization does not support a religious stance.
Cato's argument was silly and illogical. I gave a silly answer.
| 611 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:14:38pm |
| 612 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 7:14:56pm |
re: #572 WindUpBird
I'm about to see the movie Human Centipede this weekend.
Which really brings new meaning to the word "shit" used to describe a film o_o
There is not enough money on earth to pay me to watch that movie. I already feel like I won't sleep for a week just having learned about the "concept".
Feh.
Hope you enjoy it, though.
| 613 |
Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, May 7, 2010 7:15:39pm |
re: #581 lostlakehiker
Hear, hear. Hear what he says, for he says it well.
I see. So, it's about the same thing as "testify!", except from the POV of the catcher's team rather than the pitcher's.
| 614 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:16:13pm |
re: #395 windsagio
and I"ll note, B_S got it, and was cool about the dig.
Cuz we might not agree on the subject, but he can handle a little rough-and-tumble.
And I'm glad you added that little '_' in there.
| 616 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:18:09pm |
re: #542 windsagio
Its impossible to blame any one administration for the 30 year pattern of letting companies do whatever-the-fuck they choose.
Typical and superficial knee-jerk reaction at this early point. The rig was state of the art and there is no evidence of a regulatory inadequacy at this point.
| 617 |
sagehen Fri, May 7, 2010 7:18:16pm |
re: #585 Killgore Trout
The forgotten commandment: Thou shalt giveth the long stroke...
Rekers Paid Escort $75 A Day For Luggage, Massage Services
Florida whores are only $75 a day? Wow. Is that illegal aliens driving down wages, or deflationary effects of the recession?
| 618 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:19:02pm |
re: #617 sagehen
Florida whores are only $75 a day? Wow. Is that illegal aliens driving down wages, or deflationary effects of the recession?
A day? Good Grief! Ripped off again.
| 619 |
Cato the Elder Fri, May 7, 2010 7:19:14pm |
re: #617 sagehen
Florida whores are only $75 a day? Wow. Is that illegal aliens driving down wages, or deflationary effects of the recession?
I assume that's $75 per diem on top of all expenses paid.
| 620 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:20:22pm |
re: #413 HoosierHoops
It is rare that a person opens up his Soul about God on Blogs...You have shown courage and self Honesty to the world...You won't get attacked tonight for that post...OK Lizards..No more talking about God...Things tend to go over the top when somebody brings up God or Religion...
Hoosier, both LVQ and I understand the rules of the debate. Even if either of us gets hot, which I doubt, the debate will end and the relationship will go on as usual.
Thanks for the concern, but no worries.
| 621 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, May 7, 2010 7:20:50pm |
re: #619 Cato the Elder
I assume that's $75 per diem on top of all expenses paid.
[Reading the back of a St. Christopher medal aloud] "I'm a Buddhist. In case of an emergency call a Lama.
| 622 |
What, me worry? Fri, May 7, 2010 7:20:56pm |
re: #619 Cato the Elder
I assume that's $75 per diem on top of all expenses paid.
See, that's where they getcha.
| 623 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:23:42pm |
re: #454 Ojoe
God is the uncaused cause, outside of time itself.
Any social construct comes later.
That's an assertion. I could just as easily say the BB is the uncaused cause.
| 625 |
cenotaphium Fri, May 7, 2010 7:24:13pm |
| 626 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:25:40pm |
re: #481 SanFranciscoZionist
Terry Pratchett proposes another version of that, where the philosopher explains his belief as a failsafe, and after death finds himself surrounded by annoyed deities with clubs who plan to demonstrate what they think of smart-ass philosophers.
Terry Pratchett is god.
| 627 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:29:23pm |
re: #511 Stanley Sea
Reine - I am the proud GED college graduate. It just doesn't matter. I hated high school.
When I first went to Uni, I told them I didn't finish high school. They just gave me an IQ test.
Weird.
| 629 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:31:19pm |
re: #520 Cato the Elder
Oh, stuff it.
You've been trying to get a reaction out of one of us all thread. I guess it didn't work.
| 631 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:33:14pm |
re: #537 Cato the Elder
Poets have defined reality without science since before recorded history began.
I piss on your doctrine of sola scientia just as I piss on sola scriptura.
Pissing into the wind might just get you wet.
| 632 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 7:33:46pm |
re: #628 Stanley Sea
Also I'm still trying to ifght the blood plague in my game > Its a problem
| 633 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:34:02pm |
re: #541 Walter L. Newton
Ok... I'm mad now... are you a believer in g-d?
Walter, what is with the '-' in god?
Am I missing something?
| 634 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 7:34:11pm |
| 635 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 7:36:10pm |
re: #634 Stanley Sea
Once I feel dirty enough, I'm gonna hit WUB's place >
Plumber no sooner than monday :(
| 637 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:37:42pm |
re: #591 freetoken
Ludwig is probably off to his religious duties by now, so he may not see your reply.
I'm always too slow for these threads. Both ways. sigh.
| 638 |
cenotaphium Fri, May 7, 2010 7:37:48pm |
re: #633 b_sharp
Walter, what is with the '-' in god?
Am I missing something?
It's a sign of respect to those here who believe, originating from a jewish taboo against writing out the name of god that has morphed into a shorthand g-d done by non-jews also.
I had to ask a while ago as well.
| 640 |
Inconsequential Consequence Fri, May 7, 2010 7:41:25pm |
re: #638 cenotaphium
It's a sign of respect to those here who believe, originating from a jewish taboo against writing out the name of god that has morphed into a shorthand g-d done by non-jews also.
I had to ask a while ago as well.
Thanks
But why is Walter using it?
| 641 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 7:41:38pm |
re: #639 windsagio
kinda good thing to have around here ya know. Not that I call it out often, but..
| 642 |
Killgore Trout Fri, May 7, 2010 7:42:02pm |
re: #617 sagehen
Florida whores are only $75 a day? Wow. Is that illegal aliens driving down wages, or deflationary effects of the recession?
Doing the jobs Americans won't do.
| 643 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:42:25pm |
| 644 |
Nimed Fri, May 7, 2010 7:45:16pm |
Sim, é um estilo peculiar, e por vezes um pouco pesado. Mas as descrições valem a pena. Esta é a passagem de que estava estava a falar há bocado:
…Bras, who is red-haired and has no sight in his right eye, it will not be long before people start getting the impression that this is a land of disabled men, some with a hump, some with only one hand or one eye, and to accuse us of exaggerating, when all believe that heroes should be handsome and dashing, lithe and sound of limb, that is certainly how we should have preferred them, but there is no avoiding the truth, and the reader should be grateful that we have not wasted any time counting up all those who are blubber-lipped stutterers, lame, heavy-jowled, bow-legged, epileptic, big-eared, half-witted, albinos, and dolts, or suffering from scabies, sores, ring-worm, and scurvy, then you would certainly see a long procession of hunchbacks and lepers wending its way out of Mafra…
| 645 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 7:45:20pm |
re: #643 Bagua
Respect for those who care.
Is it really a faux pas not to follow that though? I am not religious in any sense, therefore it never crosses my mind. Don't those who care kind of understand that?
| 646 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 7:47:43pm |
re: #645 Stanley Sea
My impression is that some people made a big deal about it at some point, and its a carryover from that time.
Just a guess of course.
The really ironic thing is that the prohibition they're following shouldn't apply to the word "God" anyways, but rather to the name of God. >>
| 647 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 7:48:46pm |
re: #646 windsagio
My impression is that some people made a big deal about it at some point, and its a carryover from that time.
Just a guess of course.
The really ironic thing is that the prohibition they're following shouldn't apply to the word "God" anyways, but rather to the name of God. >>
My Catholic family uses Goddamn more than any other phrase.
| 648 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:48:58pm |
re: #646 windsagio
Winsagio the Talmudic expert. Hint: no it is not at all "ironic".
| 649 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 7:51:07pm |
re: #647 Stanley Sea
Its a Jewish thing >
As I remember, when I asked LVQ the same question, he agreed with me, but also said he was respecting others' wishes.
| 650 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:52:15pm |
re: #645 Stanley Sea
Is it really a faux pas not to follow that though? I am not religious in any sense, therefore it never crosses my mind. Don't those who care kind of understand that?
In theory, sort off. The custom is to treat documents with the name of G-d with special respect, to the point of storing and burying them. Some would argue that this would not apply to a digital version seen only on a screen, only to its printout, otherwise, just clicking refresh would be an issue. Still others would argue that it applies only to versions of G-d's name written in Hebrew.
| 651 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 7:53:44pm |
re: #649 windsagio
Its a Jewish thing >
As I remember, when I asked LVQ the same question, he agreed with me, but also said he was respecting others' wishes.
bottom line, I like how goddamnedfrank riles up some folks. It resonates with me. re: #650 Bagua
In theory, sort off. The custom is to treat documents with the name of G-d with special respect, to the point of storing and burying them. Some would argue that this would not apply to a digital version seen only on a screen, only to its printout, otherwise, just clicking refresh would be an issue. Still others would argue that it applies only to versions of G-d's name written in Hebrew.
Hmmm. But it's a blog. With all types of people as members. Better to just accept the differences, which I'm sure the majority do.
| 652 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:54:03pm |
re: #649 windsagio
What's the matter, you want to comment from ignorance and them smart at being called on it? A "sharp tongued" person, as you pride yourself, should not be so sensitive when the comments are directed at you.
| 653 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 7:54:40pm |
re: #651 Stanley Sea
I think its people being flashily respectful, if that makes sense :D
Altho I'm reminded of somebody freaking out over 'goddammit' too, altho' that person wasn't Jewish.
| 654 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:55:08pm |
re: #651 Stanley Sea
Hmmm. But it's a blog. With all types of people as members. Better to just accept the differences, which I'm sure the majority do.
You would have to address that to Walter. Also note that the composition of posters has changed here over the years.
| 655 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 7:55:27pm |
| 656 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 7:56:21pm |
re: #654 Bagua
You would have to address that to Walter. Also note that the composition of posters has changed here over the years.
Yeah, Walter. Love him, Uncle W.
I always say to the changes in the blog - I would not be here without em. Take that as we will.
| 657 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:56:23pm |
re: #655 windsagio
Umm bagua, where was I being upset at whatever?
Yer comin' on a bit strong.
You down dinged my humorous comment #648.
| 658 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 7:57:25pm |
re: #657 Bagua
Like I said, I thought you were comin' on a bit strong. I'm more free with + and - than most people.
Like I alwyas like to say, you'll know if I"m really upset :p
(if you want I can give you an example)
| 660 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 7:59:21pm |
re: #657 Bagua
You down dinged my humorous comment #648.
You know Bagua, not that you care, I disagree with you so much, but your insight and knowledge about Haiti was very important. :) It was excellent and helpful, and definitely makes me read all your posts.
| 661 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 7:59:27pm |
re: #658 windsagio
Like I said, I thought you were comin' on a bit strong. I'm more free with + and - than most people.
Like I alwyas like to say, you'll know if I"m really upset :p
(if you want I can give you an example)
If you can't take a little snark in return you shouldn't hand out so much. Sensitive little guy that you are.
| 663 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 8:00:30pm |
re: #660 Stanley Sea
You know Bagua, not that you care, I disagree with you so much, but your insight and knowledge about Haiti was very important. :) It was excellent and helpful, and definitely makes me read all your posts.
Thank you for that Stanley Sea, and yes I do care about your opinion.
| 664 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 8:01:25pm |
re: #660 Stanley Sea
The Haiti thing was interesting, surprised me, to be frank :D
| 665 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 8:01:33pm |
re: #663 Bagua
Thank you for that Stanley Sea, and yes I do care about your opinion.
I think you got through to a few people during the quake aftermath.
| 666 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 8:03:00pm |
re: #662 windsagio
See now you're just bein' mean *cry*
You are over-reacting, as usual, my comment was good natured. Why do you get so defensive every time I chat with you? Was it and insult because you really fancy yourself knowledgeable about Jewish law?
| 667 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 8:04:16pm |
re: #666 Bagua
Its fun, because its hard to tell whose conning who :D
| 668 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 8:04:45pm |
re: #665 Stanley Sea
I think you got through to a few people during the quake aftermath.
Cheers for that observation, it is good to know some real communication is going on.
| 669 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 8:04:57pm |
re: #667 windsagio
Its fun, because its hard to tell whose conning who :D
Walter has screwed it up lately. my op.
| 670 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 8:05:07pm |
re: #666 Bagua
Oh yeah, to answer your quesiton I"m not terribly knowledgable, but I had asked a few people about that particular thing 'cuz I'd answered too.
| 671 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, May 7, 2010 8:05:29pm |
Not this again. Another dead thread slap-fight. Going upstairs...
| 673 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 8:06:21pm |
re: #668 Bagua
Cheers for that observation, it is good to know some real communication is going on.
Absolutely!
| 674 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 8:07:30pm |
re: #667 windsagio
Its fun, because its hard to tell whose conning who :D
If it's fun (as it should be) then there is no need for the down-dings and the defensive reply. Take kidding as kidding and don't assume hostility unless it is real. Otherwise, how am I supposed to address you, as someone who makes hundreds of snarky comments but can not be addressed occasionally in return?
| 675 |
Stanghazi Fri, May 7, 2010 8:07:41pm |
re: #671 Dark_Falcon
Not this again. Another dead thread slap-fight. Going upstairs...
That thread filled quickly with the one "side". Had to go down!
| 676 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 8:07:47pm |
re: #671 Dark_Falcon
Dude, we're basicly having fun.
Your thread-nazi crap is begginning to annoy me.
| 677 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 8:08:08pm |
re: #671 Dark_Falcon
Not this again. Another dead thread slap-fight. Going upstairs...
No, we are discussing and my intention is to work through the issue.
| 678 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 8:08:33pm |
re: #674 Bagua
If I came off defensive, I'm sorry :)
I'll reverse the downding tho', I really didn't htink you were joking
| 679 |
Bagua Fri, May 7, 2010 8:11:58pm |
re: #678 windsagio
If I came off defensive, I'm sorry :)
I'll reverse the downding tho', I really didn't htink you were joking
Most of the time I am windsagio, I would ignore you if I felt hostile. Perhaps ribbing is more apt than joking, ex. if someone asked about computer games and I proposed answers, one may observe that I am hardly an expert in that field and I wouldn't feel particularly threatened.
As we share a chat room should we not try to communicate?
| 680 |
windsagio Fri, May 7, 2010 8:15:37pm |
re: #679 Bagua
I'll have to keep it in mind I think, I have the impression of you being one of those 'type a' types, and really going after people that disagree.
Maybe I just need to separate major issues from little things.
| 683 |
Querent Fri, May 7, 2010 8:40:20pm |
re: #173 Cato the Elder
If I come to die and find myself turned away from Valhalla by Thor along with all the other deluded Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, Zoroastrians, Wiccans, Animists, Pantheists and the rest, I will at least be able to take comfort in the wailing and gnashing of teeth of the Atheists amongst the crowd.
I expect i'll be in Valhalla -- and i'll vouch for as many Lizards as i can...
| 684 |
MadJadBad Fri, May 7, 2010 8:54:24pm |
from the article:
"But this is true of Judaism and Christianity as well (as dictated by their actual, recognized texts, and not the soft-serve version that their respective modern leaders are more inclined to peddle), both of which have expressed themselves in serfdom, slavery, and genocide in past centuries and which did so on the unambiguous orders of the Old Testament,"
"You Christians ought to remember how much religion-prompted killing your co-religionists perpetrated against each other and others (particularly from the 15th to 18th centuries) before the concept of pluralism came around out here in the West"
I always thought this type of argument was pretty lame. If he was talking about sports his argument would sound like this:
Your favorite team was a bunch of losers and cheaters back in the 50's, so in 2010, even if they are top ranked, they still suck solely because of what they did in the 50's
That's his best argument? Well, I'm not convinced.
Didn't something happen with a SouthPark episode just last week? I heard rumors that fear of retribution was one of the factors.
Reuters: 'South Park' airs 'censored' episode after threat "they're going to end up like Theo Van Gogh"
| 685 |
MadJadBad Fri, May 7, 2010 9:02:26pm |
Unless the whole Southpark censorship was a satirical hoax. Then it would seem to support his argument that it's all about the link clicks.
(And a brilliant marketing idea for the show).
| 687 |
cenotaphium Fri, May 7, 2010 9:13:02pm |
re: #684 MadJadBad
I always thought this type of argument was pretty lame. If he was talking about sports his argument would sound like this:
Your favorite team was a bunch of losers and cheaters back in the 50's, so in 2010, even if they are top ranked, they still suck solely because of what they did in the 50's
Yeah.. only it's not a trivial matter. And it's about atrocities being committed against "fellow man" under a guise of righteousness.
Maybe it'd sound more like "while it is right to judge you preferable at the moment, yours is a line of thinking steeped in blood also". The moral high ground isn't won on the merits of what's expressed in the texts, or the intention of the writers, but in the actions of the adherents.
Look at it this way: claiming that Asatru is superior to other religions, because of the peacefulness of modern adherents is missing the point. It's a religion drenched in blood, justifying slave ownership and murder for reasons considered appalling to modern society. It has good points too (specifying certain rights for slaves for instance). But the virtues of modern adherents lie less in the source material, and more in the way belief is made to conform to the ideals of a society we've made with, but not from, religion.
| 688 |
Querent Fri, May 7, 2010 9:17:33pm |
re: #687 cenotaphium
Yeah.. only it's not a trivial matter. And it's about atrocities being committed against "fellow man" under a guise of righteousness.
Maybe it'd sound more like "while it is right to judge you preferable at the moment, yours is a line of thinking steeped in blood also". The moral high ground isn't won on the merits of what's expressed in the texts, or the intention of the writers, but in the actions of the adherents.
Look at it this way: claiming that Asatru is superior to other religions, because of the peacefulness of modern adherents is missing the point. It's a religion drenched in blood, justifying slave ownership and murder for reasons considered appalling to modern society. It has good points too (specifying certain rights for slaves for instance). But the virtues of modern adherents lie less in the source material, and more in the way belief is made to conform to the ideals of a society we've made with, but not from, religion.
There's not much i can add to that. And i'm the Lizard Nation's representative on that one.
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