Video: ShapeShifter
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573 comments
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Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:43:42pm |
Anyone who use that 'A-word' on this thread will get SMACKED. Except for Charles, of course.
| 3 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:44:56pm |
"perfect imperfections" what a wonderful line. Of course, I've already forgotten the whole phrase that was used.
Very kewl!
| 5 |
Reginald Perrin Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:49:00pm |
re: #2 Dark_Falcon
Anyone who use that 'A-word' on this thread will get SMACKED. Except for Charles, of course.
Alinsky?
| 6 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:50:01pm |
re: #2 Dark_Falcon
Anyone who use that 'A-word' on this thread will get SMACKED. Except for Charles, of course.
Aardvark?
| 9 |
Reginald Perrin Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:53:02pm |
| 11 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:54:06pm |
"Transcendent through infinite possibilities."
What a great idea!
We're too limited in our perspectives, today.
IMO.
| 12 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:54:47pm |
| 13 |
BryanS Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:55:35pm |
Argentina? It's Argentina, isn't it? Those bastards keep gettin' in the way of the Brit's rightful claim of the Falklands. Ohhh, now you've gone and riled me up.
/Alinsky
| 14 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:56:05pm |
| 16 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:56:56pm |
I just can't figure out if this article is serious. It seem as thought the author admits to child abuse--Lizards, please weigh in.
| 17 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:57:11pm |
| 18 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:57:45pm |
re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I'm only a dolphin, ma'am
a landdolphin?
I prefer landdauphin myself.
| 20 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 10, 2011 9:58:58pm |
Getting Breitbart wound up again on Twitter. It's becoming a habit.
| 21 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:00:14pm |
A Slinky
Akin Sly
Nail Sky
Lain Sky
Lanky Is
Yaks Nil
Yak Nils
Las Inky
Slay Kin
Slay Ink
Lays Kin
Lays Ink
Lay Skin
Lay Inks
Lay Sink
An Silky
Nays Ilk
Nay Silk
Nay Ilks
Any Silk
Any Ilks
Say Kiln
Say Link
Ay Slink
Ay Links
Ay Kilns
Ya Slink
Ya Links
Ya Kilns
A Kin Sly
A Ink Sly
A Nil Sky
La In Sky
| 22 |
Reginald Perrin Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:00:34pm |
| 23 |
Amory Blaine Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:01:18pm |
| 24 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:02:03pm |
re: #22 Reginald Perrin
[Link: www.spike.com...]
| 25 |
Reginald Perrin Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:02:11pm |
| 26 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:02:12pm |
| 27 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:02:48pm |
| 28 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:03:42pm |
| 31 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:05:03pm |
re: #16 ggt
I just can't figure out if this article is serious. It seem as thought the author admits to child abuse--Lizards, please weigh in.
Yes, she's serious.
And I know some people who were very badly screwed up by their Chinese parents, doing exactly what's being described, so maybe this chick should get over how awesome and high-achieving she is.
Whatever.
| 32 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:08:37pm |
Alinky in Alinksy
| 33 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:09:12pm |
| 34 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:09:35pm |
re: #16 ggt
I just can't figure out if this article is serious. It seem as thought the author admits to child abuse--Lizards, please weigh in.
The problem with accepting nothing but 1st place as a parent is it leaves your child miserable if they simply are not as good at something as someone else. A person may excel at math and science, but simply not be as good when it comes to interpreting a play for English. That's no disgrace, in my eyes its wrong to treat it as one. Yes, kids need to be pushed, and I've grow the most when I was pushed, but if you push someone beyond their limits for too long what you end up doing is breaking them.
| 35 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:10:42pm |
I looked at Arizona shooter Jared Loughner's mugshot a little earlier. He certainly looks like a fiend from hell. Appearances can deceive but probably not in this case.
He also looks to have been roughed up a bit. I think it speaks well of the people who were there that they didn't beat him to death right on the spot. There was a big crowd and no police for a couple of minutes or so. There are many places in the world where he would literally have been torn to pieces in that short time, especially after a child had been murdered.
| 36 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:11:02pm |
re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist
Yes, she's serious.
And I know some people who were very badly screwed up by their Chinese parents, doing exactly what's being described, so maybe this chick should get over how awesome and high-achieving she is.
Whatever.
Chinese mothers can say to their daughters, "Hey fatty—lose some weight." By contrast, Western parents have to tiptoe around the issue, talking in terms of "health" and never ever mentioning the f-word, and their kids still end up in therapy for eating disorders and negative self-image.
First, Western parents a-plenty tell their daughters that they're fat. Trust me.
Second, my best friend from high school became anorexic her first year at college, after years of being harassed and put on drastic diets by her Chinese mother.
Just mentioning.
| 37 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:11:17pm |
New Dawn of War Expansion and they're going to have Imperial Guard as playable. Hell yeah.
| 39 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:13:58pm |
re: #36 SanFranciscoZionist
The body image that we project on our daughters, and female relatives is disgusting. I do not understand why we cannot seem to make healthy decisions, and pass them along.
| 40 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:14:35pm |
re: #20 Charles
Getting Breitbart wound up again on Twitter. It's becoming a habit.
High strung as I am, I've often been the target of attempts to get me wound up, even here. So my conscience almost makes me want to ask you to lay off Andrew Breitbart.
Almost
But what turns it around for me is what Breitbart does: He lies continuously and without remorse. And a scumbag like him deserves no mercy. Get him, Charles!
| 41 |
Reginald Perrin Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:14:59pm |
re: #33 Charles
I have no idea why he keeps saying that. He's demented.
I have managed to stay out of trouble for almost 2 whole years, it might be fun to see if I can have a little fun at his expense.
| 42 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:15:27pm |
re: #37 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
New Dawn of War Expansion and they're going to have Imperial Guard as playable. Hell yeah.
What is that? A WH 40K computer game?
| 43 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:15:44pm |
| 44 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:17:58pm |
| 45 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:18:10pm |
Now Breitbart is threatening me:
@Lizardoid The more you bring her up, the weirder it's going to be for you. I promise.
| 46 |
Kragar Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:19:04pm |
| 47 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:19:22pm |
re: #45 Charles
Now Breitbart is threatening me:
You have a problem with weird?
Strange way to threaten someone.
| 48 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:20:16pm |
| 50 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:23:08pm |
re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist
This woman's a professor at Yale Law. I imagine she'd have to be a hell of a lot worse than this before social services got involved.
'til one of her kids or a kid she knows commits suicide.
I can't imagine being raised that way.
| 51 |
JAFO Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:24:49pm |
re: #45 Charles
Now Breitbart is threatening me:
Well, when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.
| 52 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:25:55pm |
re: #50 ggt
Suicide is not anything to mess around with.
Have you experienced a loved on comitting suicide?
It's a big, old emotional mess.
Please don't even mention it.
It makes my heart break, all over again.
| 53 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:26:12pm |
My reply:
And by the way, you couldn't possibly make it weird enough for me.
| 54 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:26:36pm |
re: #51 mracb
Upding!
Hunter Thompson reply!
| 55 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:26:55pm |
re: #52 Floral Giraffe
Suicide is not anything to mess around with.
Have you experienced a loved on comitting suicide?
It's a big, old emotional mess.
Please don't even mention it.
It makes my heart break, all over again.
Sorry, I just know it is higher in Chinese culture.
| 56 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:28:46pm |
re: #48 SanFranciscoZionist
This woman's a professor at Yale Law. I imagine she'd have to be a hell of a lot worse than this before social services got involved.
Agreed. The rules are somewhat different for lawyers, because they know how to give police a hard time and they tend to be better at structuring their actions to avoid running afoul of the law.
| 57 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:30:53pm |
re: #55 ggt
Sorry, I just know it is higher in Chinese culture.
True, but some of that is the fact that suicide does not have the stigma in Asian cultures that it does in Western ones. In places like china and Japan, suicide is still seen at times as a honorable way of of avoiding a shameful failure.
| 58 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:31:44pm |
re: #57 Dark_Falcon
True, but some of that is the fact that suicide does not have the stigma in Asian cultures that it does in Western ones. In places like china and Japan, suicide is still seen at times as a honorable way of of avoiding a shameful failure.
I'm not going to follow this line of the topic as Floral Giraffe asked.
| 59 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:32:04pm |
re: #50 ggt
'til one of her kids or a kid she knows commits suicide.
I can't imagine being raised that way.
She seems to me like someone who's gotten very good at deflecting criticism of her parenting style, even from her husband, by claiming it's cultural. There's a basis for that--a lot of what she says about Chinese parentingstyle is true--but she's clearly set herself up as being the only one who knows what she's doing, and is ignoring other input.
I'm glad I'm not her student. She must be a treat to ask for an extension.
| 60 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:35:09pm |
Oh my, what a childish insult.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 61 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:35:12pm |
re: #44 SanFranciscoZionist
Hey, blued da nic, SF invite, maybe.
| 62 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:35:49pm |
re: #58 ggt
I'm not going to follow this line of the topic as Floral Giraffe asked.
OK, then I'll step back as well.
| 63 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:37:04pm |
re: #59 SanFranciscoZionist
She seems to me like someone who's gotten very good at deflecting criticism of her parenting style, even from her husband, by claiming it's cultural. There's a basis for that--a lot of what she says about Chinese parentingstyle is true--but she's clearly set herself up as being the only one who knows what she's doing, and is ignoring other input.
I'm glad I'm not her student. She must be a treat to ask for an extension.
I guess I don't think I need to decide what areas my son needs to "perfect" in. As far as I'm concerned, he is perfect the way G-d made him. I do expect him to work hard, not because I want to be proud of him, but I don't want him to be disappointed in himself later.
I know there is a cultural difference in that in the West we seem to do everything for our children, and in the East they do everything for the elders. I'm not raising someone to support me when I am old, I just want him to be able to support himself.
| 64 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:38:10pm |
Projection Level 7 over there on Twitter.
| 65 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:39:13pm |
I'm glad I don't do Twitter. I can barely keep up with facebook for iPhone.
| 66 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:40:03pm |
re: #63 ggt
Unfortunately, we seem to be the "sandwich generation" caught in the middle of doing as much good as we ca for our ageing parents, and our underemployed children. It 's tough to be in the middle.
| 67 |
Charles Johnson Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:40:22pm |
re: #60 BigPapa
Oh my, what a childish insult.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
And stupid too. Breitbart knows absolutely nothing about my life. He's making up an insult that has no relationship to reality, just like he made up his smear of Shirley Sherrod.
| 68 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:41:10pm |
re: #61 Floral Giraffe
I'm sorry will you mail me? Blued MY nic. I accidentally set it so it keeps going to this Russian e-mail site.
| 69 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:43:11pm |
re: #66 Floral Giraffe
Unfortunately, we seem to be the "sandwich generation" caught in the middle of doing as much good as we ca for our ageing parents, and our underemployed children. It 's tough to be in the middle.
Yes, I'm living it right now. Although my son is in high school, he does work.
I think expectations were raised a little too high because of the boom after WWII. There are soooo many more people now, just being able to support a family of your own is tough enough. I think people, some people anyway, are beginning to realize that Mommy and Daddy's checkbook is running out. We have to take responsibility for our own health and well being. That means making tough choices about what kind of lifestyle we will have.
Nobody is building McMansions around where I live right now. . . .
| 70 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:45:31pm |
re: #67 Charles
And stupid too. Breitbart knows absolutely nothing about my life. He's making up an insult that has no relationship to reality, just like he made up his smear of Shirley Sherrod.
That doesn't sound weird. Did you tell him you are disappointed?
| 71 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:46:09pm |
LA TIMES: Spirit of unity after Arizona slayings may be fleeting
Away from Capitol Hill, debate raged over whether a vitriolic political atmosphere played a role in the Tucson rampage.
Uh, no. Try this:
Away from Capitol Hill, vitriolic political debate raged over whether a vitriolic political atmosphere played a role in the Tucson rampage.
Mo bettah. It's going to get worse.
| 72 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:46:57pm |
re: #64 BigPapa
Projection Level 7 over there on Twitter.
And massive butthurt as well. I do however, think I may enjoy watching 'Breitbart Baiting' a little too much. But he such a deceitful, arrogant, toad of an individual that It's impossible not enjoy him getting ripped on.
| 73 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:49:58pm |
I shared this downstairs between the A-words.
In a better world, no one would attempt to exploit his madness for political gain. We would instead focus on the contributions of Ms. Giffords, by all accounts a laudable public servant. We would celebrate the lives of the other victims, and we would praise the survivors who intervened to tackle Mr. Loughner and disarm him before he could kill others—like 74-year-old retiree Bill Badger, who was grazed in the head by a bullet before helping to restrain the shooter.
& I'll add:
President Obama does have an opportunity here, but it is not to link—"deftly" or otherwise—his political opponents to Mr. Loughner. This would only further poison and polarize our public debate. Mr. Obama can lift the level of public discourse by explaining the reality of Mr. Loughner's illness and calling out those on the right and left who want to blame the other side for murder. That would be a genuinely Presidential act of leadership, and it would have the added advantage of being honest about the murders in Tucson.
| 74 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:51:06pm |
re: #63 ggt
I guess I don't think I need to decide what areas my son needs to "perfect" in. As far as I'm concerned, he is perfect the way G-d made him. I do expect him to work hard, not because I want to be proud of him, but I don't want him to be disappointed in himself later.
I know there is a cultural difference in that in the West we seem to do everything for our children, and in the East they do everything for the elders. I'm not raising someone to support me when I am old, I just want him to be able to support himself.
It's very different. And I guess I get irritated with people who think its their way or the highway, and people who put down American culture, and people who are too pleased with themselves, so this article was custom-made to hack me.
That said, I grew up in a very Asian neighborhood, and I've seen the good and the bad sides of it as my friends wrestled with their parents. And one of my college friends is raising her boys from her first marriage with a boyfriend who was brought up in Singapore, and I see how he struggles to balance his idea of appropriate expectations with the culture the kids are actually being raised in.
I'm reminded of a story my rabbi told me. His wife grew up in Germany before the war, and her father felt it wasn't good for her to stress too much over her schoolwork, so for every 'B', she got twenty shillings in pocket money. Nothing for an 'A'. Now, I assume even getting a B in a pre-war German gymnasium took some studying, but that's an approach I'm more comfortable with.
| 75 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:51:57pm |
re: #71 BigPapa
LA TIMES: Spirit of unity after Arizona slayings may be fleeting
Away from Capitol Hill, debate raged over whether a vitriolic political atmosphere played a role in the Tucson rampage.
Uh, no. Try this:
Away from Capitol Hill, vitriolic political debate raged over whether a vitriolic political atmosphere played a role in the Tucson rampage.
Mo bettah. It's going to get worse.
There was a spirit of unity? I missed it.
| 76 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:53:05pm |
| 77 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:54:32pm |
re: #76 Dark_Falcon
That's worth saying. So far Obama has taken the high road on this tragedy. If he keeps up with that, he'll come out the better for having done so.
It would be nice if sanity came from the White House.
| 78 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:55:39pm |
re: #68 SanFranciscoZionist
Can't get it to work, will try tomorrow.
Good night, all.
| 79 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:56:38pm |
| 80 |
sagehen Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:56:40pm |
re: #16 ggt
I just can't figure out if this article is serious. It seem as thought the author admits to child abuse--Lizards, please weigh in.
Wow.
Jewish mothers are plenty pushy, and produce plenty of high-achieving offspring, without pulling that kind of shit.
| 81 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 10:59:39pm |
re: #79 WindUpBird
does this opinion article have a credit? or is it just mystery meat wall street op ed
Lots of newspapers have unsigned editorials from their editorial board. Nothing really wrong with it.
| 82 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:00:33pm |
re: #79 WindUpBird
does this opinion article have a credit? or is it just mystery meat wall street op ed
re: #79 WindUpBird
does this opinion article have a credit? or is it just mystery meat wall street op ed
It seems it is mystery meat. I tried the "print" feature and it didn't show a credit either. How bizarre.
Good Catch.
| 83 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:02:17pm |
re: #81 Dark_Falcon
Lots of newspapers have unsigned editorials from their editorial board. Nothing really wrong with it.
I know, but I don't like it. I don't think I would have posted it if I was paying attention to the credits.
| 84 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:04:45pm |
re: #83 ggt
I know, but I don't like it. I don't think I would have posted it if I was paying attention to the credits.
Fair enough.
I'm going to go to bed now, since I'm starting to fade. Goodnight, all.
| 85 |
Shiplord Kirel Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:08:36pm |
Uh oh!
This is from conspiracy site Above Top Secret
We here at AboveTopSecret.com, our owners, staff, and membership find ourselves in the unfortunate position of apparently being one of the largest (if not the largest) repositories of online postings by someone who has been classified as a "monster" (among other things) due to his (accused) actions of two days ago. Online research that began on Reddit, and continued here on ATS has resulted in an overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence to support the notion that the "erad3" member account here is Jared Loughner. Indeed, the content found in more than 4,000 Google search returns (including some pages in the mainstream press) have drawn the same conclusion.
Loughner was a spaceflight denialist who believed that the Shuttle and the Mars Rovers were hoaxes. He doesn't mention the Moon landings but his beliefs about that that would seem obvious.
Given that Congresswoman Giffords's husband is a NASA astronaut this could be a significant connection.
| 86 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:08:53pm |
Will the laundry ever end?
| 88 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:11:14pm |
re: #80 sagehen
Wow.
Jewish mothers are plenty pushy, and produce plenty of high-achieving offspring, without pulling that kind of shit.
Catholic ones are specifically talented at using the "guilt" card. :)
| 89 |
Amory Blaine Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:14:08pm |
I don't know if this is appropriate, but I got this link from a WSJ message board.
Bill Ayers, communist provided Arizona shooter's curriculum?
High school part of learning community funded jointly by Obama and domestic terrorist
| 90 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:15:55pm |
Giffords is responding to further commands and gave a thumbs up.
| 91 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:17:41pm |
OK. Because you guys are my neat friends, I am going to share with you my dorkiness, and ask for some advice.
I just started an online MFT program. I am hoping (praying) to take out a Stafford Loan to cover the expenses, and also hopefully give us a little boost until we get my sweetie working again.
In an excess of dorky enthusiasm, I decided to take not the one class they recommend starting with, but TWO. Damnit. So I signed up for Class One (required) and Class Two.
(I became an overachiever in early middle age, after slacking through my teens and twenties. What can be done?)
So, today, it dawned on me for the first time that this is the situation with Class 2:
1. It requires two books, in the most recent edition, both of which are very hard to find and expensive. One of them is VERY expensive, and apparently not available in the latest edition until next month, but nevermind...
2. I ordered the two books in recent, but not totally new editions on Half.com where they were dirt cheap, but they still won't get here until probably late next week. I am FAR too broke, and will be until the Stafford (please God) comes in to buy the books, especially the hundred-and-thirty-five-dollar one.
3. No local libraries have both these books. As I pondered this earlier today, I thought, "Aha! I am near Berkeley. I will go to UC Berkeley, and photocopy the chapters I will need." Alas, the second book, the hellaciously expensive one, is not in any UC library.
4. Is a book really worth reading if NO library in the University of California system has bothered to buy it? Methinks not. I mean, a romance novel, maybe, but a serious academic work?
5. I have a paper due on Saturday night on the first chapters of both books.
6. Apparently the call-ins for Class One and Class Two happen at the same time.
I'm thinking of writing to the intructor, confessing my dorkdom, and dropping the class, but I'm mortified at the thought of telling the student services/registrar lady, after so merrily insisting on putting myself in the class to begin with.
Thoughts?
| 92 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:18:22pm |
re: #86 ggt
Will the laundry ever end?
No. It just begins again.
This is why my husband hates doing dishes.
As soon as you are done, someone eats something.
| 93 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:19:36pm |
re: #90 BigPapa
Giffords is responding to further commands and gave a thumbs up.
That is one tough and lucky woman. And that intern deserves a damn medal.
| 94 |
Amory Blaine Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:20:40pm |
re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist
Why don't you want to take the other class?
| 95 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:20:42pm |
Dreams
What are dreams?
Moments etched in time
Swept in strokes on twilight canvases
Vast as the cosmos
Quiet lullabies echoing through the purple dawn
Dreams
Farthest reaches of imagination, fulfilled
Endlessly evolving
Hidden
Leaps and bounds
Hidden beauty in unexpected places
Sculptures of perfect imperfections
These are dreams
Sublime journeys beyond the extraordinary
Sad shadows of requiems long ago
Forms and formlessness
Textures that radiate cascading visions and colorful sounds
Dreams that shimmer between wishes and stars
Mystery
Majesty
Transcendently soar
Through infinite possibilities
— Dreams by Fitzgerald Scott
| 96 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:21:44pm |
re: #94 Amory Blaine
Why don't you want to take the other class?
The first one? I'm taking the first one. It's the second one that's making itself difficult.
| 97 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:22:37pm |
re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist
OK. Because you guys are my neat friends, I am going to share with you my dorkiness, and ask for some advice.
I just started an online MFT program. I am hoping (praying) to take out a Stafford Loan to cover the expenses, and also hopefully give us a little boost until we get my sweetie working again.
In an excess of dorky enthusiasm, I decided to take not the one class they recommend starting with, but TWO. Damnit. So I signed up for Class One (required) and Class Two.
(I became an overachiever in early middle age, after slacking through my teens and twenties. What can be done?)
So, today, it dawned on me for the first time that this is the situation with Class 2:
1. It requires two books, in the most recent edition, both of which are very hard to find and expensive. One of them is VERY expensive, and apparently not available in the latest edition until next month, but nevermind...
2. I ordered the two books in recent, but not totally new editions on Half.com where they were dirt cheap, but they still won't get here until probably late next week. I am FAR too broke, and will be until the Stafford (please God) comes in to buy the books, especially the hundred-and-thirty-five-dollar one.
3. No local libraries have both these books. As I pondered this earlier today, I thought, "Aha! I am near Berkeley. I will go to UC Berkeley, and photocopy the chapters I will need." Alas, the second book, the hellaciously expensive one, is not in any UC library.
4. Is a book really worth reading if NO library in the University of California system has bothered to buy it? Methinks not. I mean, a romance novel, maybe, but a serious academic work?
5. I have a paper due on Saturday night on the first chapters of both books.
6. Apparently the call-ins for Class One and Class Two happen at the same time.
I'm thinking of writing to the intructor, confessing my dorkdom, and dropping the class, but I'm mortified at the thought of telling the student services/registrar lady, after so merrily insisting on putting myself in the class to begin with.
Thoughts?
Romance novel, what is it. I'm pretty good at finding obscure titles. Bibliophile that I am.
| 98 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:24:59pm |
| 99 |
Amory Blaine Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:25:53pm |
re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist
That's what I meant, why don't you want to take the second class?
| 100 |
SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:27:10pm |
re: #99 Amory Blaine
That's what I meant, why don't you want to take the second class?
Because I don't think I can get the materials organized in time.
| 101 |
Amory Blaine Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:27:56pm |
No shame in dropping it then. They recommend only the one class anyways.
| 102 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:31:19pm |
| 103 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:31:57pm |
| 104 |
goddamnedfrank Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:32:39pm |
re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist
You're a teacher, you know the first rule, always talk with your instructor first.
Have you tried Google Books? Amazon eBooks? I know odds are slim if it's that obscure, just trying to present possible options.
| 105 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:33:58pm |
on abe.com there are tons of the previous edition for $1. HA!
I'm off,
Have a great morning all!
| 106 |
Prononymous, rogue demon hunter Mon, Jan 10, 2011 11:36:53pm |
re: #91 SanFranciscoZionist
Thoughts?
I'd email the instructor and explain the situation. If they work with you, either by helping you obtain the relevant text or excepting you from the homework then all is good. If they don't work with you to resolve the issue, then dropping the class is a reasonable response.
| 107 |
freetoken Tue, Jan 11, 2011 12:38:51am |
re: #98 SanFranciscoZionist
The textbook racket is one of the sins of modern academia.
Something like this ought to be released electronically (kindle, iPad) if it is going to be revised so often.
The publishers push this on academia. They do it even for non-changing subjects, like classical (first year Newtonian) physics. That standard intro 1st year physics text is now in three parts and costs a couple of hundred dollars, when the original version (I used the condensed original version) can be had for a buck. And the subject hasn't changed.
By all means talk to the instructor.
Congrats on taking on the new task (MFT.) Wish you well. Study well. Your other half is fortunate to be married to a person like you.
| 108 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 12:44:06am |
re: #107 freetoken
The textbook racket is one of the sins of modern academia.
The publishers push this on academia.
yep... Having a son in college I feel this pain.
By all means talk to the instructor.
good luck with that.... :p
| 110 |
deranged cat Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:07:13am |
that was pretty awesome. and you know, if there was a silent version, it'd be just as cool too.
| 112 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:18:53am |
I was looking at Loughner's mug shot and I heard the words, "I'll help you catch him, Clarice". Creepy
| 113 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:24:57am |
My poker buddy needed a surround sound and and distributed audio system so I provided equipment at cost and installed/programmed it for free.
He made me a table.
I got the better end of the bargain!
| 114 |
freetoken Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:27:34am |
| 116 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:28:59am |
Unusual Green Blob in space.
This handout photo provided by NASA, taken April 12, 2010 by the Hubble Space Telescope, shows an unusual, ghostly green blob of gas appears to float near a normal-looking spiral galaxy. NASA released Monday the Hubble Space Telescope’s first picture of the mysterious giant glowing green blob of gas called Hanny’s Voorwerp. The blob is the size of our Milky Way galaxy and is 650 million light years away. Each light year is about 6 trillion miles. The blob was discovered in 2007 by Dutch school teacher Hanny van Arkel
| 117 |
freetoken Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:30:54am |
re: #116 BigPapa
Neat picture. Lots of astro-news this week in conjunction with the annual AAS meeting. IIRC, Hanny discovered this while flipping through Galaxy Zoo classifying galaxies.
| 118 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:31:22am |
re: #115 EdDantes
What kind of wood is the center portion?
It's stressed mango. The black 'imperfections' are black bacterial growth.
It's just got so much going on in it the pic doesn't do it justice. Me and Wifey just love it and look at it every day.
| 120 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:33:48am |
re: #118 BigPapa
You scored big , indeed. I would love to have it. Looks beautiful.
| 121 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:34:19am |
re: #117 freetoken
Yes, I think it was a common person that they use to help go through all the data and catalogs. This is somewhat the incentive for amateurs to help, to make the discovery.
It would be mind bending to peer through a real telescope. I live about 60 minutes from Mauna Kea observatory and know a guy who does the systems there, maybe I should buy him a pint.
| 122 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:38:43am |
re: #81 Dark_Falcon
Lots of newspapers have unsigned editorials from their editorial board. Nothing really wrong with it.
just kinda...doesn't seem like something I'd care for. ;-) I don't care what a corporate entity thinks about culture, I DO care what people think.
| 123 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:40:05am |
re: #121 BigPapa
You must at all hazard and risk drive the 10K feet but you must content yourself to look at a monitor. But buy him two pints :)
| 124 |
freetoken Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:40:41am |
re: #121 BigPapa
The big scopes these days don't really use human eyeballs, but are constantly in use with various sensors and automated systems.
I used to stargaze with binocs. Even though I had an 8" Celestron it stayed in the box most of the time as it took so long to set up.
Stargazing with a good pair of binoculars is quite rewarding. The ideal pair is low power (say 8x) with large objectives (say 50mm). Binoculars may not sound like much, but just that extra bit of light collection (the human iris at max is around 10mm) means a lot. With 25x the light gathering (remember it's the ratio of the area difference) the binocs can reveal thousands and thousands of more stars, and items such as the brighter clusters. Using both eyes help, too.
| 125 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:40:56am |
re: #120 EdDantes
Hey thanks! Papa just proud.
The guy who made it is dry/sarcastic from Philly. We click. I told him we wanted to put glass on the top to protect it.
"don't you fackin put glass on it, I don't approve. You touch that shit and rough it up then call me in a few years when it needs a new finish."
| 126 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:43:35am |
re: #124 freetoken
MY 7x50 Celestron binoculars have served me well for 26 years.
| 128 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:45:12am |
re: #124 freetoken
Stargazing with a good pair of binoculars is quite rewarding. The ideal pair is low power (say 8x) with large objectives (say 50mm).
If I understand, the 'objectives' are the front lenses that if larger let in more light? That's interesting. Thanks for the tip, I'm interested in getting a piece.
| 129 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:47:42am |
re: #125 BigPapa
That was my next question: Is their glass over it? Glass is not necessary just wipe it to keep clean and don't drop you bowling ball on it!
| 130 |
freetoken Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:49:41am |
re: #126 EdDantes
re: #128 BigPapa
The neat thing with binoculars is that one can layback in a folding lawnchair and be totally relaxed. Plus, they're both easy to carry out into the field (and put in the car) in you need to drive to a dark place.
There are specialized (for stargazing) binoculars available from brands (such as Celestron) for the enthusiast, but one can start with any old pair.
Yes, in this case the objective is the largest lens at the front.
| 131 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:50:03am |
re: #129 EdDantes
Yah, no glass just thick lacquer because I told him I'd use it a lot. Mango is pretty hard except for bowling balls.
| 132 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:53:07am |
re: #130 freetoken
Wow good tip FT. I never thought of binocs for stargazing, always thought of telescopes. It would be nice to kick back on a lounge chair and blow my mind for a few hours. Easy to do here.
| 133 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:59:31am |
re: #132 BigPapa
Wow good tip FT. I never thought of binocs for stargazing, always thought of telescopes. It would be nice to kick back on a lounge chair and blow my mind for a few hours. Easy to do here.
The tricky thing with binoculars is to have a very steady hand. Booze does not mix. So that hurts me... :)
| 134 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:13:16am |
re: #133 boxhead
There is no booze in star gazing!- Tom Hanks
| 135 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:19:41am |
re: #134 EdDantes
There is no booze in star gazing!- Tom Hanks
I thought that was baseball!
arrrr.. i went through about 5 different comments talking about the shape of large telescopes and how booze might relate all ended in questionable finishes. I erased them all... I surrender!
| 136 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:23:08am |
re: #135 boxhead
Baseball, stargazing what's the difference? They are both long and boring and consume a lot of real estate.
| 137 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:27:54am |
re: #136 EdDantes
Baseball, stargazing what's the difference? They are both long and boring and consume a lot of real estate.
What?!?!??!
heh.... since I love em both, does make me..... what is the word to describe one who likes the details in life.. who revels in the space between rain drops.... who loves loves a no hitter more than a blow out... cosmic gases before lactose intolerance induced gases?
lol
//
| 138 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:36:50am |
re: #137 boxhead
// I didn't understand any of that except the part about lactose intolerant gases.
I am, sir, a practitioner!
| 139 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:47:46am |
re: #137 boxhead
What?!?!??!
heh... since I love em both, does make me... what is the word to describe one who likes the details in life.. who revels in the space between rain drops... who loves loves a no hitter more than a blow out... cosmic gases before lactose intolerance induced gases?
lol
//
Now that I think about it that would make you as boring as Glenn Beck on Quaaludes.
| 141 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:53:16am |
re: #138 EdDantes
// I didn't understand any of that except the part about lactose intolerant gases.
I am, sir, a practitioner!
I was just trying to be eloquent but ended up ghetto...lol
| 142 |
freetoken Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:53:46am |
re: #132 BigPapa
There are also many inexpensive books to get you started:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]
A few accessories to add later:
A star chart meant to be taken in the field (especially good are those with spiral bindings that will stay open and flat): [Link: www.amazon.com...]
And a small red LED flashlight.
| 143 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:56:44am |
re: #139 EdDantes
Now that I think about it that would make you as boring as Glenn Beck on Quaaludes.
Glenn Beck is a train wreck... Holk Hogan is a better actor then Beck. I am a nerd.. :) I buy T-shirts from Think Geek!
OT: I find it very frustrating that good friends of mine think Beck tell no lies.... And they are intelligent people.... I feel like I should look for the potion that will get me out of this looking glass world..
| 144 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:58:12am |
re: #142 freetoken
There are also many inexpensive books to get you started:
[Link: www.amazon.com...]A few accessories to add later:
A star chart meant to be taken in the field (especially good are those with spiral bindings that will stay open and flat): [Link: www.amazon.com...]
And a small red LED flashlight.
do you have and recommendation for a good started telescope? I had one years ago and want to get back into it...
| 145 |
freetoken Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:06:02am |
re: #144 boxhead
The reason I suggested binoculars earlier is because too many people buy a telescope and then rarely use it. I always found the binoculars a more rewarding experience than a telescope.
The last time I was into stargazing was before digital cameras, though. These days I'd only buy a telescope if I had plans to hook up a DSLR to it... and then that is another expenditure (along with a motor drive.)
Unless you live in a dark area you will also have to haul the telescope.
| 146 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:06:57am |
re: #143 boxhead
I agree with Beck on many things but I do not like his histrionics. He very often does himself a disservice by his hyperbole.
I am much affected by his past as an alcoholic (and I respect him for overcoming that), but I hold him to the same standard that I have for all pundits: Do not talk to me as if I were an idiot!
| 147 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:08:17am |
re: #145 freetoken
The reason I suggested binoculars earlier is because too many people buy a telescope and then rarely use it. I always found the binoculars a more rewarding experience than a telescope.
The last time I was into stargazing was before digital cameras, though. These days I'd only buy a telescope if I had plans to hook up a DSLR to it... and then that is another expenditure (along with a motor drive.)
Unless you live in a dark area you will also have to haul the telescope.
I go camping enough that it would put to use. I need a device that has a tripod to make the most of it.
| 148 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:08:27am |
re: #146 EdDantes
I agree with Beck on many things but I do not like his histrionics. He very often does himself a disservice by his hyperbole.
I am much affected by his past as an alcoholic (and I respect him for overcoming that), but I hold him to the same standard that I have for all pundits: Do not talk to me as if I were an idiot!
it'd also be sorta sweet if he didn't lie all the time and try and rile up the groundlings into committing violence
that'd be okay
| 149 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:09:32am |
re: #148 WindUpBird
it'd also be sorta sweet if he didn't lie all the time and try and rile up the groundlings into committing violence
that'd be okay
Damn you have high standards!
//
| 150 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:10:36am |
Good Morning Lizards!
I want to be Robin to Bush's Batman.
Dan Quayle
| 152 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:11:22am |
re: #146 EdDantes
I agree with Beck on many things but I do not like his histrionics. He very often does himself a disservice by his hyperbole.
I am much affected by his past as an alcoholic (and I respect him for overcoming that), but I hold him to the same standard that I have for all pundits: Do not talk to me as if I were an idiot!
I admit that I do not listen to him much, I find him worse than then The View. What I do know about him is from others posting clips and commenting. I assume those clips are cherry picked but damn, from I have seen he is right there with L. Ron Hubbard.
| 153 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:15:57am |
re: #151 EdDantes
When did he advocate violence?
Not so much violence, but when he says USA will fall unless something happens, one can take the position that his intention is to rile folks. Face it, he makes his money by being very controversial. Truth is not something, IMHO, is part of it. Creating fissures in USA public is.
| 154 |
freetoken Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:16:28am |
re: #147 boxhead
I go camping enough that it would put to use. I need a device that has a tripod to make the most of it.
Solid tripods are necessary for any real use of a telescope. Tripod and scope weight combined becomes too heavy to haul far. I had a small refractor and wooden tripod as a child. Then some years ago I had a Celestron 8" and metal tripod, but used them only in my backyard because they were too heavy to haul to the mountains. Fortunately I lived on the very edge of the city in the foothills and night was reasonably dark enough, but nothing like in the desert or mountains.
For sheer visual pleasure the famous Astroscan has been popular for many years. I remember in college one of the astronomy students ( I often hung out with the astro crowd) had one which I used briefly.
The sky is the limit (heh) when it comes to telescopes. Best to start inexpensively and see if stargazing is something that you really want to do.
| 155 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:18:09am |
Damn, I never thought I would be defending Glen Beck ( because I think he is clownish) but what violence did he advocate?
| 156 |
boxhead Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:18:22am |
re: #154 freetoken
For sheer visual pleasure the famous Astroscan has been popular for many years. I remember in college one of the astronomy students ( I often hung out with the astro crowd) had one which I used briefly.
The sky is the limit (heh) when it comes to telescopes. Best to start inexpensively and see if stargazing is something that you really want to do.
thanks for the suggestion... I will look into it...(heh back at u)
| 158 |
freetoken Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:23:33am |
re: #156 boxhead
The nice thing about the Astroscan, for the casual viewer is that it is a wide-field telescope. When used with one of its included eyepieces you'll get a 3 degree view - which is quite wide compared to many of the cheap refractors one finds in drug stores or Walmart.
The wide-field means you will see a large enough chunk of sky to see visually stunning fields of stars.
| 159 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:25:58am |
Another funny one.
Instead of giving a politician the keys to the city, it might be better to change the locks.
Doug Larson
| 160 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:27:08am |
Wndupbird, you are educated. You know that groundling is a term used in Elizabethan England for those who could only afford a penny to see a play. When did Glen Beck advocate violence?
| 163 |
Shiplord Kirel Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:30:11am |
I've been dredging the ultimate cesspool of the internet this morning, the Yahoo News comments. These are absolutely infested with Nazis and illiterate conspiracy buffs. The theme this morning seems to be that the Arizona shooter is actually a Jew and right-thinking American Aryans should therefore be excused from complicity. I've had some fun posting nasty responses. A sample:
Good thing for you there are so few B-17s still flying. You'd probably run for the cellar every time you heard one.
| 164 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:33:22am |
re: #163 Shiplord Kirel
That's silly. This has never been about politics. It's obvious that it was his choice in music and video games that caused this tragedy.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
| 165 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:39:11am |
Did everyone see this yesterday?
Exclusive: Loughner Friend Explains Alleged Gunman's Grudge Against Giffords
In a MoJo interview, the friend shares a message sent hours before the massacre.
[Link: motherjones.com...]
At 2:00 a.m. on Saturday—about eight hours before he allegedly killed six people and wounded 14, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), in Tucson—Jared Lee Loughner phoned an old and close friend with whom he had gone to high school and college. The friend, Bryce Tierney, was up late watching TV, but he didn't answer the call. When he later checked his voice mail, he heard a simple message from Loughner: "Hey man, it's Jared. Me and you had good times. Peace out. Later."That was it. But later in the day, when Tierney first heard about the Tucson massacre, he had a sickening feeling: "They hadn't released the name, but I said, 'Holy shit, I think it's Jared that did it.'"
......
One of the last times Loughner and Tierney saw each other, a mutual friend had recently purchased a .22-caliber rifle. Until then, Loughner had never shown much interest in guns, Tierney says. "My friend had just gotten a .22, and Jared kept saying we should go shooting together." But Tierney and the friend who had bought the .22 demurred. "We were sketched out," Tierney says, "and we were like, 'I don't think Jared's a good person to go shooting with.'"
| 166 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:40:00am |
re: #162 Obdicut
Goes back aways and I like to hear the context. But Beck was clearly wrong regardless. That was wrong at all times under all circumstances that is just wrong!
| 169 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:46:33am |
| 170 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:49:28am |
re: #169 rwdflynavy
Thank you! Glen Beck sucks big donkey dick.
| 171 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:51:54am |
DC area is supposed to get 2-4 inches of snow this afternoon. We haven't had a significant accumulation yet. We shall see. If we do get any snow, DC drivers won't disappoint with their antics.
| 172 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:52:30am |
| 173 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:52:47am |
Stormfront and Duke now go with "Loughner is Jewish" based on unconfirmed info from his friend that his mother is Jewish,
| 174 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:55:58am |
re: #173 Sergey Romanov
Stormfront and Duke now go with "Loughner is Jewish" based on unconfirmed info from his friend that his mother is Jewish,
Sergey, you are a braver man than I to brave those sites. What a bunch of snivelling douchnozzles.
| 176 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:56:34am |
| 177 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:56:51am |
re: #173 Sergey Romanov
Stormfront and Duke now go with "Loughner is Jewish" based on unconfirmed info from his friend that his mother is Jewish,
Everything spins back to the Jews. Fuck me up the goat ass!
| 178 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:57:56am |
| 180 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:58:37am |
| 181 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:59:34am |
re: #177 EdDantesConsidering what a small minority Jews represent across all ethnicities, they certainly are a busy bunch causing all the problems in the world. You have to admire that kind of work ethic.
//
| 182 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:00:42am |
| 183 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:00:50am |
re: #181 rwdflynavy
Considering what a small minority Jews represent across all ethnicities, they certainly are a busy bunch causing all the problems in the world. You have to admire that kind of work ethic.
//
I'm surprised no one has blamed Jews for the bad weather.
Of course, the day is still young.
| 184 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:01:36am |
re: #180 researchok
Actually, I take my apology back. I meant it :)
| 185 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:02:33am |
| 186 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:03:04am |
re: #183 researchok
I'm surprised no one has blamed Jews for the bad weather.
Of course, the day is still young.
You don't think Bush built the hurricane machine by himself do you? You know some smart Zionist Scientist built that thing!!
//
| 187 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:05:35am |
re: #185 Obdicut
Yes, yes we do.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
I need to invest in that weather tech...
| 188 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:05:46am |
re: #182 rwdflynavy
I'm more concerned that you have a goat ass.
//
It is my burden. I got it from an Adam Sandler cd in the late 90's.
| 189 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:06:30am |
re: #183 researchok
I'm surprised no one has blamed Jews for the bad weather.
Of course, the day is still young.
Um.
Stormfront links to this
[Link: www.cuttingedge.org...]
with this headline: "Jews Use Weather Control Technology as Weapons"
Have a nice day ;-)
| 190 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:09:22am |
re: #189 Sergey Romanov
Um.
Stormfront links to this
[Link: www.cuttingedge.org...]
with this headline: "Jews Use Weather Control Technology as Weapons"
Have a nice day ;-)
Unbelievable.
If Beirut and Damascus get fogged in during the first hours of the next conflict, we'll know for sure.
We can only hope.
| 191 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:10:57am |
re: #189 Sergey Romanov
Ah, I see we're also causing global warming. Because Jews apparently love massive forest fires in Israel.
| 192 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:11:33am |
re: #189 Sergey Romanov
/Jews control everything. Didn't you get the memo?
| 193 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:12:08am |
re: #191 Obdicut
Ah, I see we're also causing global warming. Because Jews apparently love massive forest fires in Israel.
I'm sure it was a plot to add to the global warming /
| 194 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:13:50am |
Here's a hot one
| 195 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:14:47am |
re: #193 Sergey Romanov
Yeah, on a serious note, the high temperatures in Israel right now aren't good at all. It's part of an ongoing drought, and really does raise the risk of more forest fires, as well as low crop yields.
Not good.
| 196 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:22:45am |
re: #194 researchok
I don't at all see what got him heat from his original comments, anyway. He wasn't saying all Pakistanis did this, or this was a normal thing. There's nothing new about men from one ethnic group targeting those of another ethnic group for exploitation because of taboos in their own culture.
As long as people are not saying "Pakistani's do this" but "This problem exists inside the Pakistani community", there's no racism involved.
| 197 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:23:29am |
re: #39 Floral Giraffe
The body image that we project on our daughters, and female relatives is disgusting. I do not understand why we cannot seem to make healthy decisions, and pass them along.
The fashion industry needs to turn itself around, and stop calling normal-shaped women "plus size."
| 198 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:24:09am |
re: #195 Obdicut
Yeah, on a serious note, the high temperatures in Israel right now aren't good at all. It's part of an ongoing drought, and really does raise the risk of more forest fires, as well as low crop yields.
Not good.
And Australia is under water.
Doubleplus ungood.
| 199 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:26:00am |
re: #197 Alouette
My wife is trying to lose weight right now. She's a teensy bit overweight. I support her, of course, but a selfish part of me doesn't want her to, because I think she looks awesome like this.
| 200 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:26:32am |
re: #197 Alouette
The fashion industry needs to turn itself around, and stop calling normal-shaped women "plus size."
Blame "Twiggy", she started this insanity.
| 201 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:27:21am |
re: #196 Obdicut
I don't at all see what got him heat from his original comments, anyway. He wasn't saying all Pakistanis did this, or this was a normal thing. There's nothing new about men from one ethnic group targeting those of another ethnic group for exploitation because of taboos in their own culture.
As long as people are not saying "Pakistani's do this" but "This problem exists inside the Pakistani community", there's no racism involved.
The fact it was talkeds about is big news.
Subjects like that are traditionally taboo in the UK.
| 202 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:32:49am |
re: #197 Alouette
My wife got Wii Fit for Christmas (her decision, not mine). She set it up the other day and made me get on it.
The Wii Fit said that I am 75 pounds overweight. I think of myself as being about 30lbs over where I should be.
75 POUNDS!?!? They want everyone (guys included) to be built like Manute Bol.
| 203 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:34:15am |
re: #201 researchok
I think a large part of that problem is most of the time the 'problems' being raised really aren't unique in any way to the Pakistani community, and are being raised by obvious racists. The Boy Who Cried Pakistani problem.
I know while I lived in Britain there was some allegation that Pakistani doctors were committing lots of sexual assaults on women, and after a brief brou-ha-hah it was showed they had much lower rates than ethnic British doctors.
| 205 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:35:26am |
re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My wife got Wii Fit for Christmas (her decision, not mine). She set it up the other day and made me get on it.
The Wii Fit said that I am 75 pounds overweight. I think of myself as being about 30lbs over where I should be.
75 POUNDS!?!? They want everyone (guys included) to be built like Manute Bol.
We got a kinect for xmas. I'm in pretty good shape but the boxing game I got with it kicked my ass, literally and in game play. I don't want to work that hard while playing a video game.
| 206 |
EdDantes Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:36:53am |
re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Manute Bol. San Fransisco Warriors, early nineties, center, loved to shoot 3 pointers.
| 207 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:37:08am |
re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Yeah. I'm a pretty heavily muscled guy, and when I exercise to lose fat, I also gain muscle. So it's really hard for me to 'lose weight'-- I generally just swap fat for muscle. So I'm always technically 'overweight' on the BMI scale, even when I have like 10% body fat.
(which hasn't happened in a long time, I'll grant you.)
| 208 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:40:07am |
re: #202 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My wife got Wii Fit for Christmas (her decision, not mine). She set it up the other day and made me get on it.
The Wii Fit said that I am 75 pounds overweight. I think of myself as being about 30lbs over where I should be.
75 POUNDS!?!? They want everyone (guys included) to be built like Manute Bol.
My workplace started a "fitness program" and whoever enrolls gets 50% off their health insurance premiums.
So yeah, I signed up for the "fitness challenge." I have to chat with a "fitness counselor" over the phone. OK, I'm good with that.
NOT going to Weight Watchers. Yes you may lose weight in the short term but they encourage OCD habits.
| 209 |
researchok Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:41:30am |
re: #203 Obdicut
I think a large part of that problem is most of the time the 'problems' being raised really aren't unique in any way to the Pakistani community, and are being raised by obvious racists. The Boy Who Cried Pakistani problem.
I know while I lived in Britain there was some allegation that Pakistani doctors were committing lots of sexual assaults on women, and after a brief brou-ha-hah it was showed they had much lower rates than ethnic British doctors.
This is being acknowledged by some in the Pakistani community as a real issue and not simply conjecture.
The real issue here is that it seems the issue is being addressed responsibly.
In Australia the issue was swept under the rug during the infamous rape trials and in some European countries, the same holds true. Crime statistics have been tweaked in some countries so as not to reflect badly on some communities.
| 211 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:44:51am |
re: #209 researchok
I get that it's a real issue. I'm saying that a large part of the problem is that "The darkies/Jews/Irish are after our womenfolk" is not exactly a new claim; it's one of the most repeated refrains of racists. So it creates an automatic resistance to a new allegation of the same sort.
But, as I said, given that Straw framed his statement very specifically to say that a small percentage of Pakistani men were engaged in this, rather than it being a mainstay of Pakistani culture, he shouldn't have gotten heat for it in the first place.
| 212 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:49:58am |
So far we've had people blame political rhetoric, gun laws, talk radio, and music for the AZ shooting. Frum ups the ante:
Did Pot Trigger Giffords Shooting?
[Link: www.frumforum.com...]
Video games are next.
| 213 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:52:50am |
re: #212 RogueOne
So far we've had people blame political rhetoric, gun laws, talk radio, and music for the AZ shooting. Frum ups the ante:
Did Pot Trigger Giffords Shooting?
[Link: www.frumforum.com...]Video games are next.
Upthread was a reference to Stormfront douchebags claiming the guy is Jewish, so add that to the list.
| 214 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:53:16am |
re: #212 RogueOne
Watching journalists try to interpret science is not a pretty sight.
Not only that, but he seems to miss the really, really obvious thing: if smoking marijuana was legal, then it'd be a lot easier to identify and treat schizophrenics for whom it's an aggravating factor.
The basic failure of his argument there is he acts as though our criminalization of marijuana makes it hard to acquire. It doesn't.
| 215 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:55:04am |
The reason for the mass bird deaths last week is finally explained. The repeal of DADT:
| 216 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:55:24am |
re: #207 Obdicut
For years I've been calling myself "fat" (hence the nic) understanding that I am heavy (considering the other vegetarians I've seen). But it was tongue in cheek.
Wii called me overweight, and I tipped the scale to just below obese.
I called it stupid and turned it off.
Heh. I do that to you guys sometimes.
| 217 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:56:30am |
re: #216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I called it stupid and turned it off.Heh. I do that to you guys sometimes.
You sound fat.
| 218 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:57:46am |
re: #217 RogueOne
I didn't add a sarc tag because I assumed you would know I was joking...but now I want to make sure everyone else knows it.
| 219 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:59:29am |
| 220 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:01:42am |
Yeah! Got my personal web server up and running!
| 221 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:07:11am |
Kind of a weird pairing:
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
Fox News President Roger Ailes had some new marching orders for his conservative host troops in the wake of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' shooting: tone it down.In a discussion with Russell Simmons posted on the Def Jam founder's website on Monday, Ailes said he wanted to change the tone of fiery rhetoric in the country, which many critics attribute to anchors on his network.
"I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually," Ailes said. "You don't have to do it with bombast. I hope the other side does that."
.........
Simmons, who is also busy plugging his new book "Super Rich," said the issue is something he and Ailes have discussed for some time."It's easy to do the cheap seats but to have the lasting and stability in your branding you have to be a little more creative," the hip hop star told the Daily News.
| 222 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:17:43am |
Assange must feel like he's lost the media focus over the last week because...
"LONDON – WikiLeaks will step up its publication schedule of secret documents, founder Julian Assange announced Tuesday, promising more revelations based on the group's stash of confidential U.S. embassy cables and other leaks."
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
| 223 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:18:46am |
The weather folks missed big time last night. It was predicted that it would be -10 or -11 degrees (f) overnight... hell... it only got down to -3.2.
| 224 |
dmon Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:31:38am |
re: #221 RogueOne
The other side?????? You mean all this time Fox news had a side???? I thought they were fair and balanced, they report you decide, no spin zone.............
Wow....knock me over with a feather!
| 225 |
Boondock St. Bender Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:31:48am |
| 226 |
Boondock St. Bender Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:41:26am |
re: #224 dmon
Thats funny! now i got coffee on my moniter
| 227 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:44:06am |
LOL, Coelho's books were banned in Iran.
[Link: paulocoelhoblog.com...]
| 228 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:47:46am |
re: #212 RogueOne
So far we've had people blame political rhetoric, gun laws, talk radio, and music for the AZ shooting. Frum ups the ante:
Did Pot Trigger Giffords Shooting?
[Link: www.frumforum.com...]Video games are next.
backwards masking in Judas Priest records
| 229 |
BishopX Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:50:35am |
| 230 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:56:04am |
| 231 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:58:26am |
re: #230 RogueOne
Wow.
Times like this, my pappy used to tell me
"Son, times like this, you headbutt the internet. Makes it stop doing...all that bullshit."
| 232 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:07:34am |
Andy Breitfart is showcasing his racism on Twitter.
@AndrewBreitbart
@Lizardoid Thank God for patronizing ponytailed PC libs protecting helpless black people. Where would America be without hippie sanctimony?
| 233 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:11:35am |
re: #232 Reginald Perrin
Andy Breitfart is showcasing his racism on Twitter.
Twitter: it's the new backstop behind school after the three o'clock bell. We fight there or I call you a sissy in P.E. tomorrow.
I think Breitbart has a man-crush on Charles. He's jealous of the fact that Charles still has a full head of hair, that Charles doesn't feel the need to say stupid shit to get himself on TV, and he'll do anything to get Charles to engage with him.
| 234 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:15:38am |
re: #232 Reginald Perrin
Andy Breitfart is showcasing his racism on Twitter.
The minute the so-called "PC" is gone, the likes of Chuck Adkins AKA PaleoPat of the Political Byline will start calling Andy a well-financed Jew neo-Con. And yes, that is merely an un-PC term, as Patchuck explained ("The original version of this rebuttal contained some words, that would not be considered “Politically Correct”"). Andy Butthurt is merely "continioually ignoring PC firewall". So did Adkins. I wonder if Andy Butthurt would have any problem with that.
| 235 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:16:38am |
re: #233 darthstar
Twitter: it's the new backstop behind school after the three o'clock bell. We fight there or I call you a sissy in P.E. tomorrow.
I think Breitbart has a man-crush on Charles. He's jealous of the fact that Charles still has a full head of hair, that Charles doesn't feel the need to say stupid shit to get himself on TV, and he'll do anything to get Charles to engage with him.
Maybe if Little Moron Andy came out of the closet, he wouldn't be so tense all the time.
| 236 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:20:39am |
re: #235 Reginald Perrin
Maybe if Little Moron Andy came out of the closet, he wouldn't be so tense all the time.
I don't think this is sexual. I think it runs at an even more base level than simple sexual desire. Breitbart needs Charles to validate him.
| 237 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:26:46am |
re: #236 darthstar
I don't think this is sexual. I think it runs at an even more base level than simple sexual desire. Breitbart needs Charles to validate him.
I know that, what I am doing is stooping to his level and rattling the bars on his cage.
Reggie has never claimed to be a nice person and at times RP can be a real son of a bitch with assholes like Andy.
| 238 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:26:46am |
RSM:
Far from being a right-wing extremist, the guy was an atheist dopehead psychotic who, among other kooky grievances, objected to the “In God We Trust” motto on U.S. currency.
Oh yeah, because to be a right-wing extremist one must be a straight-laced god-fearing citizen, right? Besides, see RSM's assertion there? It is derived from this reporting:
Yet he does exclaim in his YouTube video, "No! I won't trust in God!"
Wow, that's quite an interpretation.
| 239 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:26:56am |
Andrew Breitbart is the silver-medal Harry Knowles of Conservative Twitterers
| 240 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:28:20am |
re: #237 Reginald Perrin
I know that, what I am doing is stooping to his level and rattling the bars on his cage.
Reggie has never claimed to be a nice person and at times RP can be a real son of a bitch with assholes like Andy.
people on the internet really are a blast, aren't they?
TWITTER BOTCHED FRAUD WEIRDO WANTS YOUR ATTENTION, FILM AT ELEVEN
| 241 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:31:11am |
re: #237 Reginald Perrin
I know that, what I am doing is stooping to his level and rattling the bars on his cage.
Reggie has never claimed to be a nice person and at times RP can be a real son of a bitch with assholes like Andy.
My guess is Breitbart lurks at lgf about as much as the other stalkers. He's probably reading this now...and liking it.
| 242 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:31:49am |
Good morning lizards. Getting ready for work. Just wanted to say hi!
| 243 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:35:08am |
That creepy picture of lunatic Jared Loughner looks like Uncle Fester.
| 244 |
Taqyia2Me Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:35:13am |
re: #242 NJDhockeyfan
Very glad you are back to being able to work, NJDHF!!
| 245 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:35:24am |
re: #241 darthstar
My guess is Breitbart lurks at lgf about as much as the other stalkers. He's probably reading this now...and liking it.
Teenage fanclub!
Just like all the other fanclub members on the "stalker blog" as they refer to it around these alleys. OH MAN A DUDE SAID A THING, LET'S BE ANGRY AND YET FEIGN DISINTEREST ON OUR BLOG. CHARLES JOHNSON IS BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN OUR LIVES MONTHS AFTER WE WERE BANNED FROM HIS INTERNETS.
| 246 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:36:16am |
re: #244 Taqyia2Me
Very glad you are back to being able to work, NJDHF!!
Thanks! It feels good to get back at it. I was going nuts trapped at home.
| 247 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:36:18am |
re: #245 WindUpBird
and then of course, the wedding cake wilts, months turn to years, years turn to decades, and haters turn to drink
| 248 |
BishopX Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:39:21am |
So I know most of the left coasters are probably still asleep (except for WUB who probably hasn't gone to bed), but does anyone have an opinion on Cali's new budget?
From what I've seen it's a 50/50 split between cuts (both service cuts and pay cuts) and tax increases.
| 249 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:40:05am |
re: #230 RogueOne
See the threat to "flag" any user responses? Flag with what? Gonna report me to HQ?
New category
Awful Pages.
| 250 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:40:45am |
Uncle Fester, huh. (Warning, randomness ahead.)
| 251 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:41:18am |
Good morning Obdicut, I appreciate your response there.
*Tips hat*
| 252 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:43:04am |
re: #249 Rightwingconspirator
See the threat to "flag" any user responses? Flag with what? Gonna report me to HQ?
New category
Awful Pages.
Oh Crap! I've been turned in!
| 253 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:44:16am |
re: #245 WindUpBird
Teenage fanclub!
Just like all the other fanclub members on the "stalker blog" as they refer to it around these alleys. OH MAN A DUDE SAID A THING, LET'S BE ANGRY AND YET FEIGN DISINTEREST ON OUR BLOG. CHARLES JOHNSON IS BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN OUR LIVES MONTHS AFTER WE WERE BANNED FROM HIS INTERNETS.
The trolls down at the stalker site had declared war on Charles and LGF, long before the "ringleaders were banned. They were talking about taking down LGF three years ago.
| 254 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:49:18am |
re: #252 RogueOne
What happened to my link? Argg.
The right one
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
An awful page. Note I'll respect his conditions in order to avoid a nasty argument, I have no fear of flagging.
| 255 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 6:55:50am |
re: #252 RogueOne
Good morning. Thanks for pointing that out. For some reason my right click did not over write the older link from last night in the memory. Weird.
| 256 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:00:13am |
re: #253 Reginald Perrin
The trolls down at the stalker site had declared war on Charles and LGF, long before the "ringleaders were banned. They were talking about taking down LGF three years ago.
So driving more traffic to a site that is funded by advertising based on how much traffic a site gets is their master plan for taking the site down? Good luck with that. How do I start a blog and get on their bad list?
| 257 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:01:26am |
re: #254 Rightwingconspirator
What happened to my link? Argg.
The right one
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
An awful page. Note I'll respect his conditions in order to avoid a nasty argument, I have no fear of flagging.
If marijuana creates a alternate reality then that alternate reality has been created.
If that creation is a good creation, then good has been created.
Nonetheless, then marijuana is good.
Jared
//
| 258 |
albusteve Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:01:28am |
U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' doctor said he is encouraged by her progress and that she has not suffered additional brain swelling today, the important third day after surgery when potentially dangerous swelling peaks in many patients.
"There is no change, and as frustrating as that may sound, that's a good thing," Dr. Michael Lemole, the head of neurosurgery at University Medical Center in Tucson, Ariz., told NBC's "Today" show.
excellent news
[Link: www.aolnews.com...]
| 259 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:09:45am |
re: #256 darthstar
So driving more traffic to a site that is funded by advertising based on how much traffic a site gets is their master plan for taking the site down? Good luck with that. How do I start a blog and get on their bad list?
It;s not quite that simple, the stalkers were attacking LGF at the behest of tea party founder Eric Odom. What we at LGF call stalkers, several progressive blogs call trolls. Rick Martinez is an attention whore and he could resist the urge to brag about their trolling operation. If it wasn't for the Tampa Twit, there is no way I would now know so much about Odom's odious network of trolls.
| 260 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:12:04am |
re: #259 Reginald Perrin
It;s not quite that simple, the stalkers were attacking LGF at the behest of tea party founder Eric Odom.
Did it start when Charles began to criticize the right?
| 261 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:13:30am |
re: #259 Reginald Perrin
It;s not quite that simple, the stalkers were attacking LGF at the behest of tea party founder Eric Odom. What we at LGF call stalkers, several progressive blogs call trolls. Rick Martinez is an attention whore and he could resist the urge to brag about their trolling operation. If it wasn't for the Tampa Twit, there is no way I would now know so much about Odom's odious network of trolls.
Odom hasn't paid me in months.,,, I'm getting pissed.
| 262 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:16:09am |
re: #261 Walter L. Newton
Odom hasn't paid me in months.,,, I'm getting pissed.
Ha! I was just wondering how one applied for a position in this network of trolls. The internet is such a funny place. Who knew it had unions?
| 263 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:18:24am |
WASHINGTON — Within minutes of the first reports Saturday that Representative Gabrielle Giffords, an Arizona Democrat, and a score of people with her had been shot in Tucson, pages began disappearing from the Web. One was Sarah Palin’s infamous “cross hairs” map from last year, which showed a series of contested Congressional districts, including Ms. Giffords’s, with gun targets trained on them. Another was from Daily Kos, the liberal blog, where one of the congresswoman’s apparently liberal constituents declared her “dead to me” after Ms. Giffords voted against Nancy Pelosi in House leadership elections last week.
'Dead to me?' Are you fucking kidding? Lets go to DKos and see...
DKOS: My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!
by BoyBlue
Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 11:07:17 AM PST
...Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is dead to me now. I won't lift a finger, make one phone call, nor will i EVER vote for her in the future. And why did she do this? Giffords never told me she was conservative Democrat. And her voting record is okay. Damn.
Disgusting....and from the comments...
she has told me personally that she is a
BDINO = Blue Dog In Name Only
So, yeah, i did know that. And she comes from a rich family so let her finance her own goddam elections from now on. But i hope she loses. Rumor has it Arizona's "Independent" Re-Districting Commission (but in reality, is a GOP shill group) is planning on tossing her and Grijalva into the same CD for next time. Well, hmmm, since i helped them BOTH in 2010, and now this backstabbing from Giffords, who do you think i will work for next time??? Hint: i LOVE Raul and he is a friend as well and is sooo strong on my signature issues of gay rights.
Not a single issue voter, but if I was, gay rights would be it. I just want Democrats to be tough. And I wish Obama were tougher. That's all. I'm a proud gay!
by BoyBlue on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 11:26:47 AM PST
ProgressivePunch rates Giffords almost dead last among Democrats when it comes to voting on the right side in the areas of Aid to the Less Advantaged, Fair Taxation, and Making the Government Work for Everybody, Not Just the Rich and Powerful.by TooFolkGR on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 11:29:19 AM PST
okay, so she's a liar and i am an idiot. (1+ / 0-)she's STILL dead to me.
by BoyBlue on Thu Jan 06, 2011 at 11:31:19 AM PST
What a sick vile disgusting person.
| 264 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:18:36am |
re: #262 darthstar
Ha! I was just wondering how one applied for a position in this network of trolls. The internet is such a funny place. Who knew it had unions?
Click on my name and email me... I have the applications... do you want it in WORD format or a PDF? Remember, I've been tag as a troll, so I should be the "don't go" to guy here at LGF.
| 265 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:20:44am |
re: #260 Sergey Romanov
Did it start when Charles began to criticize the right?
I think it was instigated in part by Charles banning of what are now high profile bloggers. It is likely that this hate of Charles is also related to some business outside of LGF. I have no concrete proof, but lots of circumstantial evidence.
| 266 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:22:06am |
re: #263 NJDhockeyfan
'Dead to me?' Are you fucking kidding? Lets go to DKos and see...
DKOS: My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!
Disgusting...and from the comments...
What a sick vile disgusting person.
Boy Blue was a volunteer for Giffords. Worked on her campaign. Was upset when she didn't vote for Pelosi. So he wrote a diary saying that she was "dead to me" and also explained that he wouldn't do any more volunteer work or campaigning on her behalf.
It was NOT a death threat. Any person with a third grade education could figure that out.
| 267 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:22:44am |
re: #263 NJDhockeyfan
Apparently you missed his extensive apology.
| 268 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:22:50am |
re: #266 darthstar
What a sick vile disgusting person.Boy Blue was a volunteer for Giffords. Worked on her campaign. Was upset when she didn't vote for Pelosi. So he wrote a diary saying that she was "dead to me" and also explained that he wouldn't do any more volunteer work or campaigning on her behalf.
It was NOT a death threat. Any person with a third grade education could figure that out.
FIxed...that line was yours.
| 269 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:23:38am |
re: #267 Obdicut
Apparently you missed his extensive apology.
NJD doesn't care about that. This is just a cheap point he's trying to score by jumping on the Democrats threatened her! bandwagon of bullshit.
| 270 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:24:23am |
re: #266 darthstar
What a sick vile disgusting person.
Boy Blue was a volunteer for Giffords. Worked on her campaign. Was upset when she didn't vote for Pelosi. So he wrote a diary saying that she was "dead to me" and also explained that he wouldn't do any more volunteer work or campaigning on her behalf.
It was NOT a death threat. Any person with a third grade education could figure that out.
It's not a death threat but it's still disgusting don't you think?
| 271 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:25:19am |
re: #267 Obdicut
Apparently you missed his extensive apology.
The apology wasn't included with the astro turf talking points.
| 272 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:25:41am |
re: #263 NJDhockeyfan
LOL, "dead to me" contains not even a hint of a threat and there is nothing disgusting about it, though it is hyperbolic. It's about the attitude of the subject, nothing else. And this is the only phrase that wingnuts quote all over, which is kinda illustrative.
Also: [Link: www.dailykos.com...]
| 273 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:26:26am |
re: #270 NJDhockeyfan
It's a choice of words I'd never use. Given his long, extensive apology, I don't see any need to harp on it any more.
Why do you?
| 274 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:26:56am |
re: #270 NJDhockeyfan
It's not a death threat but it's still disgusting don't you think?
No, it's just bad timing. Had she not been shot, you never would have noticed that diary...it would have been just another angry rant by someone who was emotionally invested in politics and got his feelings hurt by one internal party vote.
| 275 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:27:03am |
re: #267 Obdicut
Apparently you missed his extensive apology.
After getting bad press from everyone from right wing blogs to the NYT you bet he apologized. It doesn't make the comments any better. Boy Blue posted some foul things, is wrong and I don't care if he/she is sorry.
| 276 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:27:24am |
re: #271 Reginald Perrin
The apology wasn't included with the astro turf talking points.
It was in my daily memo. But we were asked not to link to it. The memo was just pointing out that the apology existed, sort of a FYI note in the memo.
| 277 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:27:39am |
re: #275 NJDhockeyfan
After getting bad press from everyone from right wing blogs to the NYT you bet he apologized. It doesn't make the comments any better. Boy Blue posted some foul things, is wrong and I don't care if he/she is sorry.
What foul things?
| 278 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:28:15am |
re: #270 NJDhockeyfan
The magic balance fairy had a late night and isn't here at the moment, so you are out of luck.
| 279 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:28:21am |
re: #275 NJDhockeyfan
He apologized. More than anyone else who's engaged in much, much, much worse rhetoric has done.
Why aren't you going after them to apologize? Why focus on this guy?
| 280 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:28:38am |
re: #275 NJDhockeyfan
After getting bad press from everyone from right wing blogs to the NYT you bet he apologized. It doesn't make the comments any better. Boy Blue posted some foul things, is wrong and I don't care if he/she is sorry.
Do you watch Jersey Shore? You sound like a Snooki fan.
| 281 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:28:51am |
[Link: en.wiktionary.org...]
Adjective
dead3. (of another person) So hated by that they are absolutely ignored.
He is dead to me.
It's English, baby.
| 282 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:29:08am |
re: #274 darthstar
No, it's just bad timing. Had she not been shot, you never would have noticed that diary...it would have been just another angry rant by someone who was emotionally invested in politics and got his feelings hurt by one internal party vote.
I wouldn't have noticed it because I don't go there for obvious reasons. DKos has a long history of allowing screwballs to post disgusting threads & comments. To have the NYT expose them is amazing to me.
| 283 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:29:32am |
re: #279 Obdicut
He apologized. More than anyone else who's engaged in much, much, much worse rhetoric has done.
Why aren't you going after them to apologize? Why focus on this guy?
Because he's a dKos leftie loon. NJD isn't exactly big on nuance.
| 284 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:30:24am |
re: #282 NJDhockeyfan
I wouldn't have noticed it because I don't go there for obvious reasons. DKos has a long history of allowing screwballs to post disgusting threads & comments. To have the NYT expose them is amazing to me.
So did many other blogs, including this one, once upon a time. So?
| 285 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:30:26am |
re: #278 Reginald Perrin
The magic balance fairy had a late night and isn't here at the moment, so you are out of luck.
Yes I am... I'm here. But I covered this KOS diary two days ago, got 30 or more down dings... not bad... NJDhockeyfan couldn't even come close to topping that.
| 286 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:30:28am |
re: #282 NJDhockeyfan
Aside from the one phrase, what other disgusting things did he say?
| 287 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:30:31am |
re: #280 darthstar
Do you watch Jersey Shore? You sound like a Snooki fan.
No, never seen the show and Snooki is originally from LI, not NJ. I have no idea why she's on the show.
| 288 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:31:50am |
re: #285 Walter L. Newton
Yes I am... I'm here. But I covered this KOS diary two days ago, got 30 or more down dings... not bad... NJDhockeyfan couldn't even come close to topping that.
And just for that I updinged you. Just to spite you. (Bwahaha.)
| 289 |
lawhawk Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:32:28am |
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. While we await what is expected to be a pretty nasty Nor'easter (averaging a foot of snow throughout the NYC metro area, with areas in CT seeing even more and less on Eastern LI and Southern NJ), here's a gorgeously shot video of the NYC metro area:
| 290 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:33:08am |
re: #285 Walter L. Newton
Yes I am... I'm here. But I covered this KOS diary two days ago, got 30 or more down dings... not bad... NJDhockeyfan couldn't even come close to topping that.
I've been busy back at the job. Sorry I missed that one. Heh.
| 291 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:34:11am |
re: #287 NJDhockeyfan
No, never seen the show and Snooki is originally from LI, not NJ. I have no idea why she's on the show.
Because she has that look, that "a bit chubby" big thighed, full chested Jersey Shore party girl look. I worked on the Jersey shore for a number of years... I live in Jersey for 10 years... it wouldn't matter if she was from the moon... it's a TV show... she's perfect in the part.
(Note: I don't watch the show, have just perused a few videos).
| 292 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:34:46am |
Gotta go to work now. Have a great day lizards!
| 293 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:35:20am |
re: #291 Walter L. Newton
Because she has that look, that "a bit chubby" big thighed, full chested Jersey Shore party girl look. I worked on the Jersey shore for a number of years... I live in Jersey for 10 years... it wouldn't matter if she was from the moon... it's a TV show... she's perfect in the part.
(Note: I don't watch the show, have just perused a few videos).
South Park did a great job on her. I laughed my ass off.
| 294 |
albusteve Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:35:38am |
who is Blue Boy?...someone important?re: #285 Walter L. Newton
Yes I am... I'm here. But I covered this KOS diary two days ago, got 30 or more down dings... not bad... NJDhockeyfan couldn't even come close to topping that.
30!....good job
so who is Blue Boy and why is he above criticism?
| 295 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:35:52am |
re: #290 NJDhockeyfan
I've been busy back at the job. Sorry I missed that one. Heh.
Well... the memo suggested that we don't link to the apology, so, you didn't know the apology existed, you linked only to the diary, you did good... I'll put in a good word to Ruffini and Odom for you.
| 296 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:35:55am |
| 297 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:36:12am |
re: #270 NJDhockeyfan
It's not a death threat but it's still disgusting don't you think?
Why don't you explain to us just what is sick and disgusting about it and we'll tell you if we agree or not rather than just posting a big lump of text?
| 298 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:38:27am |
re: #291 Walter L. Newton
Memo to self: Your fast typing English stinks.
| 299 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:40:09am |
103 years ago today, President Theodore Roosevelt declared the Grand Canyon a National Monument.
| 300 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:43:47am |
re: #297 jamesfirecat
Why don't you explain to us just what is sick and disgusting about it and we'll tell you if we agree or not rather than just posting a big lump of text?
You know, it's sick, man. Disgusting...Icky. Blecch! Eww...gross. WHAT-EVA. Sheesh.
Do you need more explanation?
///
| 301 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:44:28am |
Morning all!
Is it cold where you are?
| 302 |
darthstar Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:45:23am |
re: #301 ggt
Morning all!
Is it cold where you are?
I've got my wife snoozing next to me, a dog on top of the sheets by my feet, and a cat against my other arm...nope. It's quite cozy, in fact.
| 303 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:45:45am |
re: #302 darthstar
I've got my wife snoozing next to me, a dog on top of the sheets by my feet, and a cat against my other arm...nope. It's quite cozy, in fact.
awwwwww!
| 304 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:46:28am |
re: #301 ggt
Morning all!
Is it cold where you are?
Was about -2 (f) when I got up, it's warm now at +6 (f).
| 305 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:46:39am |
Its about 25 degrees and snowing in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.
| 306 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:47:01am |
re: #304 Walter L. Newton
Was about -2 (f) when I got up, it's warm now at +6 (f).
You should get up again, it might get warmer.
| 307 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:47:27am |
| 308 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:48:37am |
My back hurts. I don't want Physical Therapy, shots, meds or surgery. So I'm not going back to the doctor.
ha!
| 309 |
lawhawk Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:49:11am |
re: #299 darthstar
Roosevelt's declarations creating the foundations of the national park system is one of the greatest gifts by any president - protecting those lands from development and showcasing those natural wonders for all time.
It's an idea that was ahead of its time, but which has now spread to countries all over the world and many create these national parks to protect all manner of natural and man made wonders from harm as well as to commemorate various historical events.
| 310 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:49:51am |
re: #305 ggt
Its about 25 degrees and snowing in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.
We got 3-4 inches up here Sun/Mon... you're probably getting out storm now... down hill, Denver area and right up against the foothills, they actually got more than we did, this was an upslope storm, and it didn't have the power to push the moisture west into the foothills... so we got some, but 3-4 inches is nothing up here.,, that's a flurry.
| 311 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:50:33am |
re: #310 Walter L. Newton
We got 3-4 inches up here Sun/Mon... you're probably getting out storm now... down hill, Denver area and right up against the foothills, they actually got more than we did, this was an upslope storm, and it didn't have the power to push the moisture west into the foothills... so we got some, but 3-4 inches is nothing up here.,, that's a flurry.
They've shut down Atlanta from what I hear. Even the malls closed.
wimps.
| 312 |
McSpiff Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:50:50am |
re: #285 Walter L. Newton
Yes I am... I'm here. But I covered this KOS diary two days ago, got 30 or more down dings... not bad... NJDhockeyfan couldn't even come close to topping that.
Because you're literate enough to know that a phrase like "dead to me" isn't a threat at all.
| 313 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 7:55:13am |
re: #312 McSpiff
Because you're literate enough to know that a phrase like "dead to me" isn't a threat at all.
Hey look... if the memo tells me to link to it... I link to it. We trolls are more like zombies... blank stares... stiff necked... can't look to the left... right handed... we just follow orders.
Mmmm'kay.
| 314 |
Romantic Heretic Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:03:02am |
re: #16 ggt
I just can't figure out if this article is serious. It seem as thought the author admits to child abuse--Lizards, please weigh in.
Those poor kids. She doesn't give a damn about them, only about herself. She's using them as props for her own ego.
Stage mom to the 10th power.
Those poor kids.
| 315 |
McSpiff Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:04:24am |
re: #313 Walter L. Newton
Hey look... if the memo tells me to link to it... I link to it. We trolls are more like zombies... blank stares... stiff necked... can't look to the left... right handed... we just follow orders.
Mmmm'kay.
I still prefer your more insidious works. I've found myself yelling "stop agreeing with him, he's mocking you!" at my screen more than once the last few days...
| 316 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:04:41am |
Just took the dogs out.
You know, they look especially cute when they get a clump of snow on their nose.
| 317 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:06:46am |
re: #315 McSpiff
I still prefer your more insidious works. I've found myself yelling "stop agreeing with him, he's mocking you!" at my screen more than once the last few days...
A fan... you can't live with them, you can't live without them... thanks. I try to find a few minutes to live comment from Paris after Friday... I can pick up a few extra annoying tricks from the French :)
| 318 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:08:13am |
re: #315 McSpiff
I still prefer your more insidious works. I've found myself yelling "stop agreeing with him, he's mocking you!" at my screen more than once the last few days...
I don't have this reaction, but I am amused in such instances, yes.
| 319 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:08:37am |
re: #316 ggt
Just took the dogs out.
You know, they look especially cute when they get a clump of snow on their nose.
The kind of dumps we get up here, you have to be careful you don't loose them in the snow.
Our husky love the snow (go figure?)... he's outside right now, just sitting in on a mound of snow in the yard... happy as all shit. It's 8 degrees (f) out there and he doesn't feel a thing.
| 320 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:08:49am |
re: #316 ggt
Just took the dogs out.
You know, they look especially cute when they get a clump of snow on their nose.
Cute, yes
But it takes me about a half an hour (each) to get those clumps of snow off the fur under my dogs bellies and on their legs plus drying them!
Cute ends soon while bent over a bathtub trying to corral a pooch!
| 321 |
iossarian Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:08:59am |
re: #314 Romantic Heretic
Those poor kids. She doesn't give a damn about them, only about herself. She's using them as props for her own ego.
Stage mom to the 10th power.
Those poor kids.
Whoa. That is fucked up.
I love the part about "not allowed to be less than #1 in any class".
What if there are two "Chinese mothers" in the same school? Is there some kind of weird face-off ritual involving ceremonial scissors?
| 322 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:09:53am |
No Smoking Orchestra - Sanela
| 323 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:11:04am |
re: #320 sattv4u2
Cute, yes
But it takes me about a half an hour (each) to get those clumps of snow off the fur under my dogs bellies and on their legs plus drying them!
Cute ends soon while bent over a bathtub trying to corral a pooch!
Try drying them off in the microwave... takes about 2 minutes.
| 324 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:12:31am |
re: #323 Walter L. Newton
Try drying them off in the microwave... takes about 2 minutes.
We go through more dogs (and microwaves) that way!!
| 325 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:13:30am |
re: #320 sattv4u2
Cute, yes
But it takes me about a half an hour (each) to get those clumps of snow off the fur under my dogs bellies and on their legs plus drying them!
Cute ends soon while bent over a bathtub trying to corral a pooch!
My just shake them off.
| 326 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:14:27am |
re: #325 ggt
My just shake them off.
Mine (try to) also
But then I have clumps of snow (then lil puddles) all over the family room!
| 327 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:15:01am |
re: #325 ggt
My just shake them off.
Hands still aren't working well this am.
My dogs just shake off the snow clumps --all over the kitchen --ha!
Actually, we keep a stack of "doggie" towels by the door.
| 328 |
sattv4u2 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:20:03am |
re: #327 ggt
Hands still aren't working well this am.
My dogs just shake off the snow clumps --all over the kitchen --ha!
Actually, we keep a stack of "doggie" towels by the door.
Put em in Walters microwave after I take my dogs out!
| 329 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:25:27am |
re: #262 darthstar
Ha! I was just wondering how one applied for a position in this network of trolls. The internet is such a funny place. Who knew it had unions?
The morons who did Odom's odious deeds were not paid, the money from the Koch's didn't trickle that far down.
| 330 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:30:56am |
re: #263 NJDhockeyfan
'Dead to me?' Are you fucking kidding? Lets go to DKos and see...
DKOS: My CongressWOMAN voted against Nancy Pelosi! And is now DEAD to me!
Disgusting...and from the comments...
What a sick vile disgusting person.
Keep clinging to that blog. It provides the balance you cherish.
| 331 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:32:07am |
Poll: Americans Don't Blame "Political Tone" for Tucson Killings
[Link: www.slate.com...]
Overall, 57 percent of respondents said the harsh political tone had nothing to do with the shooting, compared to 32 percent who felt it did. Republicans were more likely to feel the two were unrelated - 69 percent said rhetoric was not to blame; 19 percent said it played a part. Democrats were more split on the issue - 49 percent saw no connection; 42 percent said there was.That's still around a third of the country that blames rhetoric for the attack, despite evidence that it had nothing to do with it.
| 332 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:32:37am |
re: #329 Reginald Perrin
The morons who did Odom's odious deeds were not paid, the money from the Koch's didn't trickle that far down.
Not quite correct. It's starts out as an intern thing, you're basically working for the cause, getting you chops, learning the ropes and being tutored by the handlers.
You can advance to the point of being an actual paid operative. It's not easy, it has a lot to do with certain quality skills... cleverness, being able to work "on your feet" impromptu, your grasp of current issues and past cultural history and most important is your loyalty.
The Koch's have more than enough money, and they are very careful that everyone above intern level gets a comfortable salary. I don't know anyone who complains about the money.
Then there are those bonuses.
//
| 333 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:35:17am |
re: #331 RogueOne
Poll: Americans Don't Blame "Political Tone" for Tucson Killings
[Link: www.slate.com...]
"I'm uncomfortable the rhetoric, therefore it must be responsible." Is what I think that 1/3 is really feeling.
emotional illogic
| 334 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:35:35am |
re: #332 Walter L. Newton
I'm sure the Koch brother pay their whores well, as they are very effective whores.
| 335 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:36:34am |
re: #334 Fozzie Bear
I'm sure the Koch brother pay their whores well, as they are very effective whores.
That's my point above... Reggie is claiming that the money doesn't trickle down... it does.
| 336 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:38:39am |
re: #314 Romantic Heretic
It's very telling that she defines success in terms of events during childhood, high school, and college. It doesn't really seem to be about how the adult is formed out of that, but merely passing through checkpoints.
It's a ridiculous article, based on anecdotal evidence, containing massive logical fallacies, and with no assessment, at all, of potential risks or downsides. It doesn't address, for example, the high rate of suicide among Asian teens, who, despite generally having more stable families and wealthier backgrounds than black teens, kill themselves at much higher rates. In addition, Asians have higher rates of cheating in college than their contemporaries; this is partially because many come from backgrounds in China with fewer academic ethics than in the US, but I also feel it represents pressure put on those kids.
There are two things she says that are completely right, but she buries them in sadistic crap: One is to spend a lot of time with your kids. That alone is the single most indicative factor of success in kids; how much time is spent by the parents with them. Second is to set high expectations for your children-- but you don't need to do so by telling them not achieving to that ultimate level is failure. You can encourage kids to try to do amazing things without them fitting into some hierarchy of 'best'.
| 338 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:39:24am |
re: #333 ggt
"I'm uncomfortable the rhetoric, therefore it must be responsible." Is what I think that 1/3 is really feeling.
emotional illogic
The rhetoric is dangerous, even if it wasn't responsible for this incident.
That's what most people are expressing, and yet people keep ignoring that. It's really weird.
| 340 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:39:54am |
re: #281 Sergey Romanov
[Link: en.wiktionary.org...]
It's English, baby.
Words mean things. It's even funnier when somebody from another country has to clarify English to Americans.
(wink)
| 341 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:40:47am |
re: #337 ggt
Yeah. 48 million in climate change disinformation. They really are shitheads.
| 342 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:40:50am |
re: #334 Fozzie Bear
I'm sure the Koch brother pay their whores well, as they are very effective whores.
The pimps like Eric Odom pocket the cash, the trolls get compensated with meaningless titles at blogs such as Pajamas Media.
| 343 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:41:09am |
re: #337 ggt
Excerpt from that link...
"The Charles G. Koch Charitable Foundation was established with the stated purpose of advancing social progress and well-being through the development, application and dissemination of "the Science of Liberty". Charles' and David's foundations have together quietly provided millions of dollars to a variety of organizations, usually libertarian or conservative think tanks, such as Americans for Prosperity Foundation, the Cato Institute, the Mercatus Center, the Institute for Humane Studies, Citizens for a Sound Economy, the Institute for Justice, the Alexis de Tocqueville Institution, the Institute for Energy Research, the Foundation for Research on Economics and the Environment, Heritage Foundation, the Manhattan Institute, the George C. Marshall Institute, the Reason Foundation and the American Enterprise Institute.[5][6]"
... and trolls.
| 344 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:42:11am |
re: #338 Obdicut
The rhetoric is dangerous, even if it wasn't responsible for this incident.
That's what most people are expressing, and yet people keep ignoring that. It's really weird.
It would be nice if people actually studied rhetoric in school. Do people even know that it is a separate field of study on it's own? As someone who appreciates (although is very much a neophyte) classical education, this really frustrates me.
| 345 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:42:48am |
re: #343 Walter L. Newton
A lot of those institutions basically are trolls.
| 346 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:43:19am |
re: #345 Obdicut
A lot of those institutions basically are trolls.
I know. But thanks for your help.
| 347 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:43:39am |
re: #338 Obdicut
The rhetoric is dangerous, even if it wasn't responsible for this incident.
That's what most people are expressing, and yet people keep ignoring that. It's really weird.
Unfortunately, without constantly pushing a message of fear of liberalism, much of the right would lose electoral support. It's not really something that they can opt to stop at this point.
| 348 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:44:28am |
re: #338 Obdicut
The rhetoric is dangerous, even if it wasn't responsible for this incident.
That's what most people are expressing, and yet people keep ignoring that. It's really weird.
You are absolutely correct, all points.
Here's where it gets sticky, when a few begin to go beyond the message "the rhetoric is dangerous", and actually BLAME the rhetoric instead of this guy's obviously lunacy, and with it blaming conservative ideology, causing people to become defensive, and making it very difficult to get the message across. Seen it happening here, or at least getting very very close.
| 349 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:44:53am |
re: #344 ggt
It would be nice if people actually studied rhetoric in school. Do people even know that it is a separate field of study on it's own? As someone who appreciates (although is very much a neophyte) classical education, this really frustrates me.
I know it's a field of study all its own.
And I did study it in college.
| 350 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:45:00am |
re: #341 Obdicut
Yeah. 48 million in climate change disinformation. They really are shitheads.
From the Wiki on the family, which I didn't link, it said that the elder Koch did business in Russia during Stalin's regime in the 1930's and came away with an intense hatred of Communism. Wrote a book about it. All well and good, but this is 2011.
The world has changed, and is still changing fast!. I myself find the cognitive dissonance blinding. But I am trying to focus and remain in the here and now.
| 351 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:45:12am |
re: #344 ggt
People do still study rhetoric in school. Obviously, the people constructing the syllogism "There's no proof that this guy was motivated by inflammatory rhetoric. Therefore, inflammatory rhetoric doesn't motivate people to violence" didn't study it, but some do. I did, for example.
This is a brilliant book if you've never read it:
[Link: www.press.uchicago.edu...]
| 352 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:45:33am |
| 353 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:45:50am |
re: #348 reine.de.tout
You are absolutely correct, all points.
Here's where it gets sticky, when a few begin to go beyond the message "the rhetoric is dangerous", and actually BLAME the rhetoric instead of this guy's obviously lunacy, and with it blaming conservative ideology, causing people to become defensive, and making it very difficult to get the message across. Seen it happening here, or at least getting very very close.
You should keep this post in your pocket and pull it out the next time a politician gets blown away.
| 354 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:46:27am |
re: #353 Amory Blaine
You should keep this post in your pocket and pull it out the next time a politician gets blown away.
Oh, you hang onto it and pull it out when you think it's necessary.
| 355 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:46:49am |
re: #347 Fozzie Bear
Unfortunately, without constantly pushing a message of fear of liberalism, much of the right would lose electoral support. It's not really something that they can opt to stop at this point.
What does liberalism mean anymore?
I thought it originally meant classical liberalism. Now it seems to be a synonym for socialism.
| 356 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:48:06am |
re: #348 reine.de.tout
You are absolutely correct, all points.
Here's where it gets sticky, when a few begin to go beyond the message "the rhetoric is dangerous", and actually BLAME the rhetoric instead of this guy's obviously lunacy, and with it blaming conservative ideology, causing people to become defensive, and making it very difficult to get the message across. Seen it happening here, or at least getting very very close.
Lunacy driven by rhetoric is kind of hard to distinguish from regular lunacy. Nobody will even know what causal factors there were in this shooting, because the mind of this kid is incomprehensible to anyone besides himself.
It is however impossible to ignore that this kid was steeped in vehement anti-government propaganda of exactly the sort that people have been warning, right here on this blog, would inevitably lead to violence.
| 357 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:48:22am |
re: #349 reine.de.tout
I know it's a field of study all its own.
And I did study it in college.
I wish I had. I got thru Latin and Logic and some Philosophy courses. Now, well if I just had 48 hours a day to read, I'd be able to learn all I want.
:)
| 358 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:48:47am |
re: #348 reine.de.tout
You are absolutely correct, all points.
Here's where it gets sticky, when a few begin to go beyond the message "the rhetoric is dangerous", and actually BLAME the rhetoric instead of this guy's obviously lunacy, and with it blaming conservative ideology, causing people to become defensive, and making it very difficult to get the message across. Seen it happening here, or at least getting very very close.
Those people are in the incredibly distinct minority, though. I think that the defensiveness on the part of most on the 'right'-- like Brietbart, Limbaugh, Beck, Judson Phillips, Palin etc.-- to this incident is not because they are objecting to a false conflation of the violent rhetoric on the right and actual, legitimate conservative ideology, but because they're guilty of inflammatory rhetoric and they know it. And they can't take responsibility, or stop themselves.
| 359 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:50:07am |
re: #353 Amory Blaine
You should keep this post in your pocket and pull it out the next time a politician gets blown away.
The next time a politician gets 'blown away', it still won't be because of 'conservative ideology', but because for so many on the 'right', conservative ideology has been replaced by reflexive, violent rhetoric.
Again: political violence isn't naturally more at home at any particular part of the spectrum, any more than violence belongs to one religion more than another one.
| 360 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:51:20am |
re: #359 Obdicut
The next time a politician gets 'blown away', it still won't be because of 'conservative ideology', but because for so many on the 'right', conservative ideology has been replaced by reflexive, violent rhetoric.
Again: political violence isn't naturally more at home at any particular part of the spectrum, any more than violence belongs to one religion more than another one.
It IS naturally more at home in movements that advocate violence. That's a no brainer.
| 361 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:51:40am |
re: #358 Obdicut
Those people are in the incredibly distinct minority, though. I think that the defensiveness on the part of most on the 'right'-- like Brietbart, Limbaugh, Beck, Judson Phillips, Palin etc.-- to this incident is not because they are objecting to a false conflation of the violent rhetoric on the right and actual, legitimate conservative ideology, but because they're guilty of inflammatory rhetoric and they know it. And they can't take responsibility, or stop themselves.
I can't disagree with that, as the beginning point for the defensiveness.
We saw that immediately.
For someone like me, trying to convince people to take a good hard look at what's going on, who then point to the extreme statements - well, makes my job harder.
| 362 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:51:57am |
re: #351 Obdicut
People do still study rhetoric in school. Obviously, the people constructing the syllogism "There's no proof that this guy was motivated by inflammatory rhetoric. Therefore, inflammatory rhetoric doesn't motivate people to violence" didn't study it, but some do. I did, for example.
This is a brilliant book if you've never read it:
[Link: www.press.uchicago.edu...]
Thank you, I found a used copy on Amazon. I'm still trying to get thru the Trivium. There just isn't the time I'd like to have.
| 363 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:53:48am |
re: #359 Obdicut
The next time a politician gets 'blown away', it still won't be because of 'conservative ideology', but because for so many on the 'right', conservative ideology has been replaced by reflexive, violent rhetoric.
Again: political violence isn't naturally more at home at any particular part of the spectrum, any more than violence belongs to one religion more than another one.
re: #359 Obdicut
The next time a politician gets 'blown away', it still won't be because of 'conservative ideology', but because for so many on the 'right', conservative ideology has been replaced by reflexive, violent rhetoric.
Again: political violence isn't naturally more at home at any particular part of the spectrum, any more than violence belongs to one religion more than another one.
If conservative ideology has been replaced by reflexive violent rhetoric, then that ideology has changed into a new ideology.
| 364 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:54:01am |
re: #362 ggt
Thank you, I found a used copy on Amazon. I'm still trying to get thru the Trivium. There just isn't the time I'd like to have.
This is another good one:
Language in Thought and Action
| 365 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:54:33am |
re: #353 Amory Blaine
You should keep this post in your pocket and pull it out the next time a politician gets blown away.
The guy is nuts. The charged rhetoric dominated by the wingers and baggers surely added to the fire, maybe even put him over the edge. But first and foremost he was nucking futz.
No matter the exact equation of causation the charged rhetoric is unhealthy, not conservatism in and of itself.
| 367 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:55:22am |
| 368 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:55:31am |
re: #360 Fozzie Bear
It IS naturally more at home in movements that advocate violence. That's a no brainer.
Yes. But 'conservative' and 'liberal', being wholly artificial creations, neither recommend or are disinclined towards violence.
It is a no-brainer: those people advocating violence and using violent rhetoric, those people who think taking guns to political events is a-OK, are the ones fostering an atmosphere of violence. It doesn't matter if they're the Black Panthers (the real ones), the black-mask anarchists, or Tea Party idiots.
| 369 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:56:53am |
re: #368 Obdicut
Yes. But 'conservative' and 'liberal', being wholly artificial creations, neither recommend or are disinclined towards violence.
It is a no-brainer: those people advocating violence and using violent rhetoric, those people who think taking guns to political events is a-OK, are the ones fostering an atmosphere of violence. It doesn't matter if they're the Black Panthers (the real ones), the black-mask anarchists, or Tea Party idiots.
That's all true. But the fact is, overwhelmingly, they are tea party idiots. There's no equivalent to that movement either in tone or in scope in the US right now.
| 370 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:56:59am |
re: #363 Amory Blaine
re: #359 Obdicut
If conservative ideology has been replaced by reflexive violent rhetoric, then that ideology has changed into a new ideology.
That's fallacy. The ideology has been replaced, as you just said. It's not been changed.
I hope you're not blaming conservative ideology, that would be a mistake.
| 371 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:57:04am |
| 372 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:57:15am |
re: #367 reine.de.tout
Many on the right = most of the republican party. Or are they republicans like N Korea is a democratic republic?
| 373 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:58:26am |
re: #363 Amory Blaine
re: #359 Obdicut
If conservative ideology has been replaced by reflexive violent rhetoric, then that ideology has changed into a new ideology.
I would say it would be more accurate and descriptive to say that conservative ideology has fractured (in the US) into violent extremist factions, leaving moderate conservatives wondering WTF happened to their party.
| 374 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:58:40am |
re: #369 Fozzie Bear
That's all true. But the fact is, overwhelmingly, they are tea party idiots. There's no equivalent to that movement either in tone or in scope in the US right now.
Sure. And there are actual GOP officials and-- sadly even more importantly in the modern GOP-- media moguls who are promoting that violent rhetoric. It's not just a base-level phenomenon.
| 375 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:59:33am |
re: #372 Amory Blaine
You're really not making much sense. The GOP is in a bad way right now. Reine has frequently expressed her feelings that the GOP has basically imploded. So why are you trying to beat her up about the GOP?
| 376 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 8:59:41am |
re: #374 Obdicut
Sure. And there are actual GOP officials and-- sadly even more importantly in the modern GOP-- media moguls who are promoting that violent rhetoric. It's not just a base-level phenomenon.
Of course. You can't be a relatively low-level party member and get away with calling the president an enemy of humanity without some cover from above.
| 377 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:00:04am |
You said conservative ideology has been replaced, for many, by reflexive violent rhetoric. If that's the case, "many" have changed their ideology haven't they?
| 378 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:01:24am |
re: #359 Obdicut
re: #361 reine.de.tout
Jon Stewart weighs in with his customary cut through the baloney logic-
[Link: www.politico.com...]
I must admit I agree with him on this.
| 380 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:01:49am |
re: #375 Obdicut
You're really not making much sense. The GOP is in a bad way right now. Reine has frequently expressed her feelings that the GOP has basically imploded. So why are you trying to beat her up about the GOP?
Because I'm basically a conservative, and we're all eeevil?
I'm getting upset, and so, I will see you good folks later.
| 381 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:01:54am |
re: #377 Amory Blaine
You said conservative ideology has been replaced, for many, by reflexive violent rhetoric. If that's the case, "many" have changed their ideology haven't they?
I think the point is that if you acknowledge a "fracturing" rather than a "transformation", then you are giving people a chance to self-identify out of that group, which is a good thing. You WANT to give people an out from that kind of movement.
| 382 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:03:23am |
I'll keep documenting the never ceasing violent rhetoric on the right along with all their failed policies. You can excuse them all you want.
| 383 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:04:53am |
re: #382 Amory Blaine
I'll keep documenting the never ceasing violent rhetoric on the right along with all their failed policies. You can excuse them all you want.
Without a quote, it is difficult to tell who you are directing your comments toward.
| 384 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:05:17am |
re: #382 Amory Blaine
I'll keep documenting the never ceasing violent rhetoric on the right along with all their failed policies. You can excuse them all you want.
Who are you talking to?
Reine has expressed disgust with those on the right espousing violent rhetoric.
So have I, obviously.
So has Fozzie.
So who are you actually talking to?
I've got a feeling that you're angry at those who are actually espousing this violent rhetoric-- but they're not around to confront. You aren't choosing your targets very wisely.
| 385 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:05:27am |
So will we see a spike in gun and ammo and extended magizines sales
with the statements/rhetoric from the left??
Be interesting to see how this plays out with some of the 2nd amendment
issues before the court!
| 386 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:05:45am |
re: #382 Amory Blaine
I'll keep documenting the never ceasing violent rhetoric on the right along with all their failed policies. You can excuse them all you want.
Who is excusing them?
| 387 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:06:25am |
I think perhaps we should redefine the radical right wingers as Whackos. Did we go thru something like this over fundamentalism. A lot of (now former) Lizards who identified themselves as fundamentalist Christian really took offense. When really, they were rather mainstream and understood the difference between personal beliefs and public policy.
Lets see, how would it go:
All Conservatives are Right Wingers
Not all right wingers are Whackos.
Not all Conservatives are Whackos
???help
| 388 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:06:41am |
re: #382 Amory Blaine
I'll keep documenting the never ceasing violent rhetoric on the right along with all their failed policies. You can excuse them all you want.
There is a sliver of sanity on the right in the US, however small. Even in the fucking Nazi party, there were some who were trying to tear it down from the inside in the early days. It's not monolithic, it just appears to be because that's the image projected by Fox et. al..
| 389 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:10:40am |
re: #388 Fozzie Bear
I think it's really, really important to note how powerful the propaganda actually is. The views of those in the GOP on climate change have shifted-- in the wrong direction-- over the past ten years due to persistent, anti-intellectual, anti-science propaganda. It hasn't been from the ground up. It's been from powerful media figures, from the Koch Brothers, etc. Sure, the tactic also depends on ground-level people who have a vindictive streak towards scientists who will parrot the attacks on CRU, for example, without actually understanding the science at all, but they wouldn't be doing that without having the path laid for them by the bigwigs.
Exposing the manipulation is important. Castigating people for being manipulated seems much less effective to me.
| 390 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:11:25am |
re: #381 Fozzie Bear
I think the point is that if you acknowledge a "fracturing" rather than a "transformation", then you are giving people a chance to self-identify out of that group, which is a good thing. You WANT to give people an out from that kind of movement.
I agree, but try as I might, most republicans I know call Glennn Beck a conservative, not a whacko.
| 391 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:11:28am |
re: #384 Obdicut
Who are you talking to?
Reine has expressed disgust with those on the right espousing violent rhetoric.
So have I, obviously.
So has Fozzie.
So who are you actually talking to?
I've got a feeling that you're angry at those who are actually espousing this violent rhetoric-- but they're not around to confront. You aren't choosing your targets very wisely.
And in case no one noticed, you can include me in that list. The BeckLimbuaghPalinetc speak in the least wrong, and at the most, dangerous.
| 392 |
nonono Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:11:30am |
I'm so busy these days with work no time to do research.
Any one here know why the BBC is doing a freedom of information request on the Cameron Govt. regarding their
forecast on this winters weather. What has Cameron and his ministers have to do with weather forecast any how.
Any one have any idea, I have to run out of the office for a bit, I'll check back. Thanks
| 393 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:12:32am |
re: #390 Amory Blaine
I agree, but try as I might, most republicans I know call Glennn Beck a conservative, not a whacko.
And are of the republicans you know on LGF?
| 394 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:15:36am |
prop·a·gan·da
/ˌprɒpəˈgændə/ Show Spelled[prop-uh-gan-duh] Show IPA
–noun
1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.
4. Roman Catholic Church .
a. a committee of cardinals, established in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV, having supervision over foreign missions and the training of priests for these missions.
b.a sc hool (College of Propaganda) established by Pope Urban VIII for the education of priests for foreign missions.
5. Archaic . an organization or movement for the spreading of propaganda.
rhet·o·ric
/ˈrɛtərɪk/
–noun
1. (in writing or speech) the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast.
2. the art or science of all specialized literary uses of language in prose or verse, including the figures of speech.
3. the study of the effective use of language.
4. the ability to use language effectively.
5. the art of prose in general as opposed to verse.
6. the art of making persuasive speeches; oratory.
7. (in classical oratory) the art of influencing the thought and conduct of an audience.
8. (in older use) a work on rhetoric.
| 395 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:17:33am |
re: #393 Walter L. Newton
No. That's why I lurked her after the "change". And then requested registration. Because I felt there is a contingent that wants to engage meaningfully with the other side. If I thought all republicans were a lost cause, I would have never applied here. And I vehemently disagree with the poll that concludes the rhetoric doesn't contribute to violence.
| 396 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:17:42am |
seems there is a fine line between propaganda and rhetoric.
| 397 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:17:53am |
re: #359 Obdicut
Again: political violence isn't naturally more at home at any particular part of the spectrum, any more than violence belongs to one religion more than another one.
There are religions that are demonstrably more violent than others (in a historical, statistical sense – not in a sense of comparing ideals). Of course, none of this has to do with nature.
| 398 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:18:18am |
re: #394 ggt
prop·a·gan·da
/ˌprɒpəˈgændə / Show Spelled[prop-uh-gan-duh] Show IPA
–noun
1. information, ideas, or rumors deliberately spread widely to help or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc.
2. the deliberate spreading of such information, rumors, etc.
3. the particular doctrines or principles propagated by an organization or movement.
4. Roman Catholic Church .
a. a committee of cardinals, established in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV, having supervision over foreign missions and the training of priests for these missions.
b.a sc hool (College of Propaganda) established by Pope Urban VIII for the education of priests for foreign missions.
5. Archaic . an organization or movement for the spreading of propaganda.rhet·o·ric
/ˈrɛtərɪk/
–noun
1. (in writing or speech) the undue use of exaggeration or display; bombast.
2. the art or science of all specialized literary uses of language in prose or verse, including the figures of speech.
3. the study of the effective use of language.
4. the ability to use language effectively.
5. the art of prose in general as opposed to verse.
6. the art of making persuasive speeches; oratory.
7. (in classical oratory) the art of influencing the thought and conduct of an audience.
8. (in older use) a work on rhetoric.
Hmmm... and why is there RUSSIAN on that page... "prɒpəˈgændə, ˈrɛtərɪk" something fishy about that page.
| 399 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:19:00am |
re: #395 Amory Blaine
So again, who are you actually talking to?
| 400 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:20:14am |
re: #397 000G
Yeah, but run the simulation again and it'd be a different religion. Plus, a lot of the religions that are seen as peaceful really aren't. I mean, Buddhism-- huge wars, nobody ever remembers. Not to mention Imperial Japan.
| 401 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:24:30am |
re: #395 Amory Blaine
No. That's why I lurked her after the "change". And then requested registration. Because I felt there is a contingent that wants to engage meaningfully with the other side. If I thought all republicans were a lost cause, I would have never applied here. And I vehemently disagree with the poll that concludes the rhetoric doesn't contribute to violence.
Then you don't help your "mission" much if you make comments that tend to make broad conclusions. If you found "republicans" here that you feel you can engage with meaningfully, then that in itself, implies there are other "republicans" out there that have similar opinion as you find here.
And stop lumping conservatives with Republicans. Not all conservatives are Republicans, not all conservatives are Socon, and many conservatives are registered non-affiliated or small "l" libertarian.
And hyperbole like "lost cause" doesn't help.
| 402 |
Ericus58 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:24:33am |
re: #378 Rightwingconspirator
re: #361 reine.de.tout
Jon Stewart weighs in with his customary cut through the baloney logic-
[Link: www.politico.com...]
I must admit I agree with him on this.
I enjoy John more and more.
Even if his position isn't a mirror to mine, I can respect it and appreciate his points.
| 403 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:24:37am |
I can't seem to hang 'Bushitler' on liberalism. I hang it on hate and extremism.
I don't connect liberalism or conservatism with hate or extremism. Or am I being an MBF'er?
| 404 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:25:32am |
Words used to communicate, words used to influence. But, I think what we are seeing more of is Words used to make money.
Listen if Beck didn't have an audience buying his product, he wouldn't be on the air. If we were "dishonered", but people were still willing to buy the product, another talking head would appear in his place.
Palin has also become a product and she is selling like hot cakes.
I don't get it.
| 405 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:25:56am |
re: #399 Obdicut
So again, who are you actually talking to?
re: #333 ggt
"I'm uncomfortable the rhetoric, therefore it must be responsible." Is what I think that 1/3 is really feeling.
emotional illogic
This is the post I disagree with. At what point is it logical and not emotional to connect the violent rhetoric with violence?
| 406 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:25:57am |
re: #403 BigPapa
"liberalism" and "conservatism" on their own, don't actually mean anything. I mean, from any sensible viewpoint, the modern GOP is not 'conservative'. They're not trying to moderate change, they're pushing immoderate, radical change.
| 407 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:26:12am |
re: #394 ggt
Propaganda is nothing more or less than the use of media (posters, signs, mail, email, video, audio, print) to cause the target audience to take a specific action intended by the propagandist.
Advertising is propaganda, all politics is propaganda, and PR is propaganda. It's just a technique. What distinguishes it from other kinds of rhetoric is the motivation of the speaker. Sadly, that is sometimes impossible to discern from the outside.
| 408 |
wrenchwench Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:26:55am |
Rush just said he personally called Sheriff Dupnik.
Rush is quite the jerk.
/music playing now...
| 409 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:27:27am |
re: #405 Amory Blaine
re: #333 ggt
This is the post I disagree with. At what point is it logical and not emotional to connect the violent rhetoric with violence?
It can't be connected in any given incident. It doesn't need to be. It can be connected overall-- violent rhetoric is dangerous. It doesn't need to be proved to be linked to a specific event; it's simply obviously a bad fucking thing in the first place.
| 410 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:29:53am |
re: #405 Amory Blaine
re: #333 ggt
This is the post I disagree with. At what point is it logical and not emotional to connect the violent rhetoric with violence?
AT the point the individual, who chose to listen to the rhetoric, pulled the trigger. Individuals are responsible for their actions.
Anyone who feels that the rhetoric was repsonsible isn't thinking.
| 411 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:30:21am |
re: #403 BigPapa
I can't seem to hang 'Bushitler' on liberalism. I hang it on hate and extremism.
I don't connect liberalism or conservatism with hate or extremism. Or am I being an MBF'er?
First of all, let's agree to discuss only the social side of things - social liberalism and social conservatism, because economics is neither here nor there in the discussion about hatred.
Historically, social conservatism is connected to hatred - ultra-nationalism (the ethnic kind as well as the state kind), sexism, homophobia and other forms of xenophobia, the notion that tradition trumps human rights, that women shouldn't have reproductive rights, etc. Segregationists were mostly socially conservative compared to integrationists. Anti-abolitionists were more socially conservative than abolitionists. And so one. This, by the way, is true regardless of right/left divisions - obviously a social conservative can be a "left-winger" in a certain sense (cf. Soviet Commies).
| 412 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:31:11am |
re: #409 Obdicut
I agree with this. If a radical Muslim leader calls for violence against his political enemy, and one of his adherents commits an act. That leader can't be literally tied to the violence. But is he responsible?
| 413 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:32:45am |
re: #412 Amory Blaine
Of course. But that's not the most congruent example, since it's an explicit call to violence. The best example, I think, would be the White Supremacists who, while never actually saying that their followers should go commit racial violence, dehumanize others and legitimize violence to the point that it occurs.
| 414 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:35:00am |
re: #413 Obdicut
A leader doesn't have to explicitly say "go kill so and so", they know all the dog whistles that will rile the rubes though.
| 416 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:37:29am |
re: #411 Sergey Romanov
(Which is why I have a hard time calling most self-identified conservatives here "conservatives" - this may be true in the US political coordinates, but most of them are really fiscally right-wing social liberals who are also probably "big" on the defense angle).
| 417 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:37:46am |
re: #406 Obdicut
"liberalism" and "conservatism" on their own, don't actually mean anything. I mean, from any sensible viewpoint, the modern GOP is not 'conservative'. They're not trying to moderate change, they're pushing immoderate, radical change.
I would agree. It seems conservatism as considered by many of us here is wholly indicted: it is inclusive of extremism and violent imagery, as if they are part of the ideology.
What about me who considers myself conservative (for a few more days) but wholly rejects many of these constructs being associated with conservatism?
This seems similar to me as the wholesale damnation of liberalism that irked me from right wing pundits long ago.
| 418 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:38:20am |
Rep. Peter King to introduce bill making it illegal to carry a gun within 1,000 feet of ‘high-profile’ government official
[Link: dailycaller.com...]
New York Republican Rep. Peter King said Tuesday that he will introduce legislation to ban the carrying of any firearm within 1,000 feet of what he described as “high-profile government officials.”“It is imperative that we do all that we can to give law enforcement the tools they need to ensure the safety of New Yorkers and prevent an attack before it happens,” King said during a press conference with New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. “That is why, as chairman of the Homeland Security Committee and co-chair of the Congressional Task Force on Illegal Guns, I will be introducing legislation that would make it illegal to knowingly carry a gun within a 1,000 feet of certain high-profile government officials.”
| 419 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:39:25am |
re: #418 RogueOne
Wow. The most significant restriction on gun rights coming out of this yet, and it's from a Republican.
| 420 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:39:53am |
re: #418 RogueOne
Rep. Peter King to introduce bill making it illegal to carry a gun within 1,000 feet of ‘high-profile’ government official
[Link: dailycaller.com...]
Unless you plan to kill that politician, in which case you may not be overly concerned about breaking that particular law.
| 421 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:40:27am |
re: #418 RogueOne
Rep. Peter King to introduce bill making it illegal to carry a gun within 1,000 feet of ‘high-profile’ government official
[Link: dailycaller.com...]
Meh, I don't think that would help and I doubt it would prevent any crimes.
| 422 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:40:46am |
re: #416 Sergey Romanov
(Which is why I have a hard time calling most self-identified conservatives here "conservatives" - this may be true in the US political coordinates, but most of them are really fiscally right-wing social liberals who are also probably "big" on the defense angle).
You're probably correct, that would define me almost to a tee. Except when I'm being obtuse on purpose or trying to make a point sarcastically.
| 424 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:41:36am |
re: #420 rwdflynavy
In a country where there's 9 guns for every 10 people, it probably is useless to try to restrict them.
| 425 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:44:51am |
re: #421 Killgore Trout
Meh, I don't think that would help and I doubt it would prevent any crimes.
You're right. The problem, as I see it, is this incident will be the reason behind a barrage of bad laws trying to stop/cure a problem that isn't. As of right now all the signs point to a young man who was seriously mentally unbalanced and in his own little weird world. No gun laws or speech restrictions will stop a crazy person from being crazy.
| 426 |
lawhawk Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:45:06am |
re: #421 Killgore Trout
Efforts to ban the extended ammo clips make more sense (and Sen. Lautenberg has proposed reimposing the 10 round cap that expired in 2004). Rep. King's proposal wont prevent attempted assassinations or other attacks on gov't officials. It would simply add another criminal charge to a laundry list of charges if someone did decide to attack those gov't officials.
Moreover, it would criminalize anyone within 1,000 feet of the official who possesses a handgun - problematic particularly urban areas - enforcement would be an issue.
Might be more workable with a smaller area affected - 250 feet or 500 feet, but wont deter someone who wants to do harm to those officials.
Yet, it's interesting that King would be the one to propose the ban. He's a GOPer, but one from NYC. Not sure how much weight that would carry with the GOP at large though.
| 427 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:46:47am |
re: #422 Walter L. Newton
You're probably correct, that would define me almost to a tee. Except when I'm being obtuse on purpose or trying to make a point sarcastically.
Since you very obviously post a lot of comments just to get people upset, why are you outraged and surprised when they get upset?
That's why people call you a troll, by the way, because you post comments intended solely to elicit an emotional reaction, often without any logic or sense.
You work so hard at being a troll - why not just be who you are?
| 428 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:47:01am |
re: #424 Amory Blaine
In a country where there's 9 guns for every 10 people, it probably is useless to try to restrict them.
How so. They are restricted right now. We can't take then on planes (and that seems to be working most of the time), most public court houses, prisons, city and country buildings are off limits (and that seems to be working most of the time)... I could go on.
The point is, they are restricted in certain situations. But there is no reason to throw out the baby with the bath water. I think restricting them from political events is probably a good idea, and workable.
May not stop someone really intent on bringing a gun or other dangerous item into a political event, but it sure would give us some boundary's that would enable us to set up the proper security measures.
| 429 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:47:06am |
re: #425 RogueOne
And simply concentrating on dismissing this guy as an isolated incident will allow those pushing violent rhetoric to dismiss the dangers of their rhetoric-- until the next killing.
Threats against politicians are up by a huge, huge percentage. We've had way too many incidents already. And yet those perpetuating the stupid violent rhetoric are just smirking about it.
Personally, I think King is recognizing they've gone too far, that things are out of control, and just wants to keep his own ass safe.
| 430 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:47:34am |
re: #427 Charles
Since you very obviously post a lot of comments just to get people upset, why are you outraged and surprised when they get upset?
That's why people call you a troll, by the way, because you post comments intended solely to elicit an emotional reaction, often without any logic or sense.
You work so hard at being a troll - why not just be who you are?
What are you telling me?
| 431 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:49:36am |
re: #418 RogueOne
That looks pretty sensible to me. Bars forbid guns in Arizona. Many restaurants do too. I have no problem with that proposal at all. Leave it in the car.
re: #419 Obdicut
Nah. I think Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.) got well ahead of this issue, looking to restrict magazines. Which I oppose. I support the restriction of magazines that extent well beyond the factory specs. Not a "ten rounds fits all" approach.
In any case this is just the beginning.
| 432 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:50:35am |
re: #425 RogueOne
You're right. The problem, as I see it, is this incident will be the reason behind a barrage of bad laws trying to stop/cure a problem that isn't. As of right now all the signs point to a young man who was seriously mentally unbalanced and in his own little weird world. No gun laws or speech restrictions will stop a crazy person from being crazy.
I don't think he is quite as mentally ill as it first appeared. He latched on to a very obscure and strange philosophy. There aren't any laws that can prevent that. Aside from increased security for elected officials I don't think there's much that can be done.
| 433 |
Stanghazi Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:50:47am |
Good news for Reine!
espn
Les Miles to remain coach at LSU - [Link: es.pn...]
| 434 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:51:34am |
A poll that says most Americans don't believe that violent political rhetoric influences violent behavior tells you absolutely nothing about whether violent political rhetoric actually does influence violent behavior.
| 435 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:52:16am |
re: #431 Rightwingconspirator
I think the restriction on weapons around political leaders is more aggressive than a restriction on magazines. It would also be basically impossible to enact, and would result in a lot of people who were just innocently carrying unaware of the presence of the politician getting arrested for it.
| 436 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:52:34am |
re: #432 Killgore Trout
Every high profile shooting gets exploited by the gun control advocates.
| 437 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:52:55am |
re: #432 Killgore Trout
I don't think he is quite as mentally ill as it first appeared. He latched on to a very obscure and strange philosophy. There aren't any laws that can prevent that. Aside from increased security for elected officials I don't think there's much that can be done.
And the "guilty before innocent" nature of high security won't help the "openness" of our politics and will further the cynicism.
| 438 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:53:40am |
re: #164 RogueOne
That's silly. This has never been about politics. It's obvious that it was his choice in music and video games that caused this tragedy.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
When I posted some facts about the shooter and his sanity or lack thereof, and cast doubt on the proposition that he did it because he was an extreme right winger, observing that your generic right winger is no fan of Karl Marx, I got a storm of downdings.
Of course, apart from Republicans, everybody knows that Loughner got his cue from politics and is a Tea Party jihadist. Right?
Plurality of Democrats reject link between ideology and AZ shooter.
| 439 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:53:55am |
re: #411 Sergey Romanov
First of all, let's agree to discuss only the social side of things - social liberalism and social conservatism, because economics is neither here nor there in the discussion about hatred.
Historically, social conservatism is connected to hatred - ultra-nationalism (the ethnic kind as well as the state kind), sexism, homophobia and other forms of xenophobia, the notion that tradition trumps human rights, that women shouldn't have reproductive rights, etc. Segregationists were mostly socially conservative compared to integrationists. Anti-abolitionists were more socially conservative than abolitionists. And so one. This, by the way, is true regardless of right/left divisions - obviously a social conservative can be a "left-winger" in a certain sense (cf. Soviet Commies).
That's probably a good idea. My ideas of conservatism focus mostly on the economic. You make great points that I can agree with specifically but it depends on the definition of conservatism. At it's core level conservatism means 'no change' which is pretty benign in and of itself, but as you pointed out above it's anything but. However, today's 'conservative' ideology doesn't have a position on abolition, though it seems there's some kooks who want to rewrite history about the Civil War.
It seems my definition of conservative and Amory Blaine's is different: he's associating the things above to conservatism, I'm not.
| 440 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:54:08am |
re: #434 Charles
A poll that says most Americans don't believe that violent political rhetoric influences violent behavior tells you absolutely nothing about whether violent political rhetoric actually does influence violent behavior.
Half the country can't find Canada on the map .
| 441 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:54:56am |
re: #438 lostlakehiker
Why are you saying he's a fan of Karl Marx, exactly?
| 442 |
lawhawk Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:54:58am |
re: #426 lawhawk
Also, can you imagine the outrage if a Democrat made the identical proposal - ban firearms within 1000 feet of an official. The calls that the Democrats were taking away their rights/socialists/etc. would be coming fast and furious.
Also, obdicut has a good point - King may be attempting to dial back the crazy and looking to protect himself and his fellow members from the crazy contingent.
| 443 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:55:39am |
re: #438 lostlakehiker
When I posted some facts about the shooter and his sanity or lack thereof, and cast doubt on the proposition that he did it because he was an extreme right winger, observing that your generic right winger is no fan of Karl Marx, I got a storm of downdings.
Of course, apart from Republicans, everybody knows that Loughner got his cue from politics and is a Tea Party jihadist. Right?
Plurality of Democrats reject link between ideology and AZ shooter.
See Charles' re: #434 Charles
| 444 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:56:09am |
re: #438 lostlakehiker
Plurality of Democrats reject link between ideology and AZ shooter.
Irrelevant.
A majority of Americans think evolution is bullshit.
Doesn't mean they are correct.
| 445 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:56:35am |
re: #440 Amory Blaine
Half the country can't find Canada on the map .
It's the thing that's shaped like a boot!
| 446 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:56:56am |
re: #430 Walter L. Newton
What are you telling me?
I don't know how to be any clearer than that. I saw a lot of comments from you belittling people who called you out on your trolling, but you also openly admit that it's what you do. It gets old, Walter.
| 447 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:56:58am |
re: #442 lawhawk
I think judges are actually the most at risk-- historically, they've been the ones most often attacked, and the whole 'activist judge' rhetoric, plus the fact that they're the ones who step in to smack down the irresponsible legislation, puts them in the firing line.
Is King proposing that judges be some of these 'high profile' government officials? There's a lot of judges. A moving 1000 foot zone around each of them would make gun ownership really freaking complicated.
| 448 |
RogueOne Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:58:16am |
Heading out into the snow again, enjoy the rest of your day people.
| 449 |
Danny Tue, Jan 11, 2011 9:59:57am |
re: #426 lawhawk
Efforts to ban the extended ammo clips make more sense (and Sen. Lautenberg has proposed reimposing the 10 round cap that expired in 2004).
Hello. I disagree. The law that expired did not ban possession or sale of magazines with more than 10-round capacity, just domestic manufacture (and maybe import, can't remember). You could legally and easily find and buy them even during the banned period.
| 450 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:00:47am |
re: #435 Obdicut
Well I disagree with your assessment there. Responsible gun owners already comply with a range of restrictions on where they can carry or shoot. So the precedent is established. Magazine capacity laws are 24/7 and all encompassing area wise. Not circumstantial by area or event.
So by definition they are more broad than specific event restrictions.
| 451 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:00:56am |
re: #418 RogueOne
Rep. Peter King to introduce bill making it illegal to carry a gun within 1,000 feet of ‘high-profile’ government official
[Link: dailycaller.com...]
Trying to score points with NY anti-gunners by proposing something that will never pass and wouldn't do any good if it did? Gee, Beaver, what a neat idea!
| 452 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:01:59am |
re: #450 Rightwingconspirator
I'm sorry, what is it that a magazine restriction prevents a gun owner from actually doing?
| 453 |
lawhawk Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:03:10am |
re: #447 Obdicut
Wont know until he introduces the legislation. It would be unworkable as you say if federal official includes federal judges even though they're the ones who are often most at risk of being attacked.
| 454 |
Danny Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:04:13am |
re: #452 Obdicut
As previously legislated, nothing, really. It was feel-good legislation to make Clinton look good to the gun control lobby.
| 455 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:04:20am |
re: #434 Charles
A poll that says most Americans don't believe that violent political rhetoric influences violent behavior tells you absolutely nothing about whether violent political rhetoric actually does influence violent behavior.
That's not what the poll said. It said that most Americans don't believe that in this instance, this particular, seriously mentally ill fellow got his cue from RW rhetoric.
On top of that, when a plurality of those who stand to win political advantage by pinning the tail on the other side's donkey reject that reading of events, maybe it's because it's just not a logical conclusion.
Violent political rhetoric is perfectly capable of inciting sane people of violent temper and narrow understanding to violence. Witness Al Sharpton's barely oblique call for an arson attack on a building he said was owned by Jews. That had consequences. And historically, many assassinations have been carried out by conspirators working to a political plan.
This is a different situation. While it remains possible that some connection may emerge, the evidence so far does not support the conclusion that Loughner was prompted to his act by political rhetoric.
Anybody who answers an algebra question on an exam with a screed on mind control is probably unable to understand political rhetoric.
| 456 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:04:20am |
nice roundup of violent right wing rhetoric from TPM...
Before Shooting, A Campaign Season Rife With Gun Rhetoric
Although I doubt the irresponsible rhetoric is directly responsible in this case I still think it's a valid point of criticism. Wingnuts have universally decided to continue and they are within their rights but they;re still going to look like douchebags when they put cross hairs on somebody who end up getting shot. That's life.
| 457 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:06:44am |
re: #441 Obdicut
Why are you saying he's a fan of Karl Marx, exactly?
Because he listed "The Communist Manifesto" as one of his favorites.
Not that I think he'd read it and understood it, mind you. Just that if we postulate that he was sane, which he is not, then even so, he would not be RW because a liking for "Communist Manifesto" is incompatible with RW ideology.
| 458 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:06:53am |
re: #449 Danny
Hello. I disagree. The law that expired did not ban possession or sale of magazines with more than 10-round capacity, just domestic manufacture (and maybe import, can't remember). You could legally and easily find and buy them even during the banned period.
Exactly. The whole of the "Assault Weapon Ban" was an insanely badly written piece of dreck even by Washington standards. There were more loopholes than in a Republican tax bill and more logical fallacies than in either party's budgets. Trying to ban specific rifles by brand name or by having certain easy to change cosmetic features for examples.
There may be an argument in favor of limiting magazine capacity for civilians thought I don't think I could ever agree with it. I would prefer the debate to happen about six months from now when it might actually be possible to be, oh, I dunno, a debate?
| 459 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:07:26am |
re: #446 Charles
I don't know how to be any clearer than that. I saw a lot of comments from you belittling people who called you out on your trolling, but you also openly admit that it's what you do. It gets old, Walter.
I am old Charles, and I'm not doing anything I haven't done for about 7 years. Nothing has changed from my end. And I make my points in various ways, and there is always going to be someone who doesn't like it. I'm not sure if my job is to play nice with everyone, there's just some people and some ideas I don't agree with.
I do nothing in the blogosphere to throw any dispersions on LGF, I don't hang around the stalkers blogs, I don't cross post, I don't scheme and plan behind anyones back, I'm quite out in the open.
And when I get into a snit with another Lizard, we work it out. Either on here, or in personal communications. But bottom line, some people don't like me, maybe you included, but that's what makes politics, as they say.
| 460 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:07:42am |
re: #457 lostlakehiker
Because he listed "The Communist Manifesto" as one of his favorites.
Not that I think he'd read it and understood it, mind you. Just that if we postulate that he was sane, which he is not, then even so, he would not be RW because a liking for "Communist Manifesto" is incompatible with RW ideology.
He must also be a Nazi, then.
You know, since he listed Mein Kampf as a favorite as well.
| 461 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:08:35am |
re: #456 Killgore Trout
nice roundup of violent right wing rhetoric from TPM...
Before Shooting, A Campaign Season Rife With Gun Rhetoric
Although I doubt the irresponsible rhetoric is directly responsible in this case I still think it's a valid point of criticism. Wingnuts have universally decided to continue and they are within their rights but they;re still going to look like douchebags when they put cross hairs on somebody who end up getting shot. That's life.
There is no "directly responsible" to be had. Remember we're dealing with "a movement, not an organization" that preaches "leaderless resistance" to "lone wolves". The deniability was in place from the start.
| 462 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:08:39am |
re: #460 Varek Raith
He must also be a Nazi, then.
You know, since he listed Mein Kampf as a favorite as well.
Do we even know if the guy could read at the 6th grade level?
| 463 |
lawhawk Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:10:22am |
re: #449 Danny
I'd have to look at the specific language of the now repealed statute, but all of the reports I've seen on Maloney and Lautenberg's proposal refer to a ban on the extended clips.
"The only reason to have 33 bullets loaded in a handgun is to kill a lot of people very quickly. These high-capacity clips simply should not be on the market," Lautenberg said. "Before 2004, these ammunition clips were banned, and they must be banned again. When the Senate returns to Washington, I will introduce legislation to prohibit this type of high-capacity clip."Lautenberg was referring to an issue that has been highlighted in recent days by senior federal law enforcement officials: the manufacture of the kind of high-capacity magazines the suspect had with him at the Tucson shopping mall was barred under a federal assault weapons ban that was passed by Congress and signed by President Bill Clinton in 1994.
If that's the case, then Lautenberg is misquoting the language relating to the ammo in the 1994-2004 assault weapons ban legislation.
| 464 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:10:37am |
re: #426 lawhawk
Look at the restrictions that got proposed after Reagan was shot. All kinds of stuff that had zero bearing on that assassination attempt. Ergo we have established that gun control advocates will exploit events way beyond the actual facts of the shooting.
Heck we joke that black rifles with black stack and removable magazines are all it takes to be restricted as an assault gun. Of course every real assault gun has a full auto mode. Restricted since the days of Bonnie & Clyde for heavens sake!
IMHO-Forget the party of origin for any of these proposals. I would happily leave my gun away from a political event like a meet and greet, a town hall meeting or a politicians office. I oppose magazine capacity restrictions that reduce the designed capacity of a firearm. For "sidestack" magazines (Glock, Browning Hi Power, most L.E. approved pistols)
I would support restricting magazines that enlarge the factory design capacity.
Who might be sensible to exempt? Police on or off duty, and perhaps certain shooting sports while at the range only.
| 465 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:11:08am |
re: #444 Varek Raith
Irrelevant.
A majority of Americans think evolution is bullshit.
Doesn't mean they are correct.
And 92 percent of Americans believe in some god or higher power... doesn't mean they are correct either.
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
| 466 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:11:11am |
re: #457 lostlakehiker
No, liking the Communist Manifesto is not incompatible with 'right-wing' ideology. It's a book. It is a critique of capitalism. Liking it doesn't not mean that you agree with its conclusions.
"Right" and "left" are meaning-free except in context; in the context of current US politics, being a goldbug, anti-government, NASA-is-a-conspiracy, the-Constitution-was-better-before-the-Civil War whackjob places someone on the 'right'.
The point, again, is not to specifically say this person was influenced by the violent rhetoric present in the US. The point is that violent, irresponsible rhetoric is here, and it should be stopped. And, at the very least, crazy-ass conspiracy stories about currency control and the government's illegitimacy should be quashed, rather than encouraged by standing members of congress.
| 467 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:11:41am |
re: #460 Varek Raith
He must also be a Nazi, then.
You know, since he listed Mein Kampf as a favorite as well.
Anybody who lists both Mein Kampf and Communist Manifesto as favorites doesn't have any coherent political philosophy. Just a passion for destruction. Both ideologies are at their roots full of hatred of life itself, and seek the ruin of their own people along with everybody else.
And it was this that our shooter somehow discerned through the fog of his mental illness.
| 468 |
Stanghazi Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:12:22am |
re: #456 Killgore Trout
nice roundup of violent right wing rhetoric from TPM...
Before Shooting, A Campaign Season Rife With Gun Rhetoric
Although I doubt the irresponsible rhetoric is directly responsible in this case I still think it's a valid point of criticism. Wingnuts have universally decided to continue and they are within their rights but they;re still going to look like douchebags when they put cross hairs on somebody who end up getting shot. That's life.
That post is insane. Thanks for putting it up.
| 469 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:14:20am |
re: #462 ggt
Do we even know if the guy could read at the 6th grade level?
Yes, we know that, and he could. At tenth grade level or better. Past tense, at any rate. Now, he'd probably go off on some wild tangent if asked to read and comment on a news story about the weather. But he'd pick up that snow was in the forecast.
| 470 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:14:37am |
re: #467 lostlakehiker
Anybody who lists both Mein Kampf and Communist Manifesto as favorites doesn't have any coherent political philosophy. Just a passion for destruction. Both ideologies are at their roots full of hatred of life itself, and seek the ruin of their own people along with everybody else.
And it was this that our shooter somehow discerned through the fog of his mental illness.
Or they like dense translations. My only shock is that "Fountainhead" wasn't on the list. Probably too sexy.
| 471 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:15:11am |
re: #452 Obdicut
Carrying a capacity as designed by the manufacturer. Which reduces ones ability to configure for the threat that is deemed likely.
At work in the office and shop, we deliberately went for high capacity guns because of the nature of the threat, and the proven wisdom that in a gunfight there is no time to reload. Now, for CCW, I use a seven round capacity gun. In CCW, we have to be aware of the crowd around us, the sheer weight of the gun and it's visibility. (I'm thin) If your CCW gun becomes visible, you are in serious violation of the terms of CCW.
| 472 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:16:07am |
re: #455 lostlakehiker
Irrelevant to my point. People believe all sorts of things that have no relationship to reality. Public opinion tells you absolutely nothing about whether a claim is true or not.
| 473 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:16:32am |
re: #452 Obdicut
I'm sorry, what is it that a magazine restriction prevents a gun owner from actually doing?
Shooting 33 rounds into a crowd without reloading. Or, slaying a large herd of deer without reloading.
It's absolutely retarded that large magazines like that are perfectly legal. There's no legitimate use for them.
| 474 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:16:52am |
re: #468 Stanley Sea
That post is insane. Thanks for putting it up.
Another similar theme article from today...
Campaigns equate guns, strength
[Link: www.politico.com...]
| 475 |
Unions = Innovation slash slash Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:16:55am |
re: #472 Charles
Irrelevant to my point. People believe all sorts of things that have no relationship to reality. Public opinion tells you absolutely nothing about whether a claim is true or not.
If only politicians understood this concept more fully.
| 476 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:17:31am |
re: #467 lostlakehiker
Anybody who lists both Mein Kampf and Communist Manifesto as favorites doesn't have any coherent political philosophy.
I've read both of those books too. Well, sort of read them. They're tedious in the extreme.
Does that mean I don't have a coherent political philosophy?
You're drawing conclusions based on non sequiturs.
| 477 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:17:33am |
re: #469 lostlakehiker
Yes, we know that, and he could. At tenth grade level or better. Past tense, at any rate. Now, he'd probably go off on some wild tangent if asked to read and comment on a news story about the weather. But he'd pick up that snow was in the forecast.
Thanks for the response. Mentally Ill with a fairly high literacy capacity.
| 478 |
tnguitarist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:17:50am |
re: #467 lostlakehiker
Anybody who lists both Mein Kampf and Communist Manifesto as favorites doesn't have any coherent political philosophy. Just a passion for destruction. Both ideologies are at their roots full of hatred of life itself, and seek the ruin of their own people along with everybody else.
And it was this that our shooter somehow discerned through the fog of his mental illness.
I've read plenty of books by people or about ideologies that I don't agree with.
| 479 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:18:37am |
re: #432 Killgore Trout
I don't think he is quite as mentally ill as it first appeared. He latched on to a very obscure and strange philosophy. There aren't any laws that can prevent that. Aside from increased security for elected officials I don't think there's much that can be done.
What philosophy? That dreams are more real than reality? I've been around the block when it comes to education, and it's not every day that an algebra quiz comes back full of political-sounding words and paragraphs that make no sense and that in any case have nothing at all to do with the questions.
That's a textbook example of plain old, literal, insanity.
| 480 |
Henchman Ghazi-808 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:19:06am |
People list crap on their FB pages all the time which doesn't necessarily mean anything.
| 481 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:19:19am |
It's just weird to me that people think they can divine a person's political orientation from their reading list.
| 482 |
lawhawk Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:19:22am |
re: #458 wlewisiii
Here's the text of the 1994 Act, which includes the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. Section 110101 lists several weapons, and then further indicates that weapons with particular characteristics are considered assault weapons for purposes of the legislation:
The term ‘semiautomatic assault weapon’ means—
‘‘(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the
firearms in any caliber, known as—
‘‘(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat
Kalashnikovs (all models);
‘‘(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and
Galil;
‘‘(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC–70);
‘‘(iv) Colt AR–15;
‘‘(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
H. R. 3355—203
‘‘(vi) SWD M–10, M–11, M–11/9, and M–12;
‘‘(vii) Steyr AUG;
‘‘(viii) INTRATEC TEC–9, TEC–DC9 and TEC–22; and
‘‘(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar
to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;
‘‘(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept
a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of—
‘‘(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
‘‘(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath
the action of the weapon;
‘‘(iii) a bayonet mount;
‘‘(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed
to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
‘‘(v) a grenade launcher;
‘‘(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept
a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of—
‘‘(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol
outside of the pistol grip;
‘‘(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel
extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
‘‘(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter
to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being
burned;
‘‘(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when
the pistol is unloaded; and
‘‘(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm;
and
‘‘(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of—
‘‘(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
‘‘(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath
the action of the weapon;
‘‘(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds;
and
‘‘(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.’’.
Further, the 1994 legislation defines large capacity ammunition feeding device:
DEFINITION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING
DEVICE.—Section 921(a) of title 18, United States Code, as amended
by section 110102(b), is amended by adding at the end the following
new paragraph:
‘‘(31) The term ‘large capacity ammunition feeding device’—
‘‘(A) means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar
device manufactured after the date of enactment of the Violent
Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 that has
a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted
to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; but
‘‘(B) does not include an attached tubular device designed
to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire
ammunition.’’.
The prohibition was written such that it was unlawful to transfer or possess those items except if they were otherwise lawfully possessed on or before the enactment date (1994) and there were certain additional exemptions from the requirement.
| 483 |
Charles Johnson Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:21:14am |
And by the way, all you really know from the fact that Loughner posted a list of books is that he posted a list of books. You don't even know that he actually read them. He could have copied and pasted that list just to impress people.
There's an awful lot of jumping to conclusions based on that one flimsy piece of evidence.
| 484 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:21:56am |
re: #481 Charles
It's just weird to me that people think they can divine a person's political orientation from their reading list.
.. and not from their extensive writings, apparently.
| 485 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:23:10am |
re: #481 Charles
It's just weird to me that people think they can divine a person's political orientation from their reading list.
I would think a varied reading list would be a sign of freedom.
| 486 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:23:38am |
re: #472 Charles
Irrelevant to my point. People believe all sorts of things that have no relationship to reality. Public opinion tells you absolutely nothing about whether a claim is true or not.
Sure it does. Especially in the realm of ordinary human experience, such as with people who are rational or not. Public opinion has limited value, but it's a lot like one of the "lifelines" in "who wants to be a millionaire". It's information.
The public can be wrong. But individuals can be wrong too. And it's not as if expert opinion [mental health experts, in this case] has coalesced on "sane but under the influence of violent rhetoric".
| 487 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:23:44am |
re: #471 Rightwingconspirator
It's not just proven wisdom that there's no time to reload, it's that in the average shootout-- which is an incredibly, incredibly, incredibly rare incident in the first place-- there are very few shots actually fired. The police are the ones who most often engage in firefights; they've mostly found that the number of shots fired in a shootout is about six-- at or below the capacity of the handgun carried, and there was usually no reload.
There are no cases that I have ever heard of a policeman being killed while reloading. Do you have any such cases?
| 488 |
Danny Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:23:55am |
re: #482 lawhawkThe prohibition was written such that it was unlawful to transfer or possess those items except if they were otherwise lawfully possessed on or before the enactment date (1994) and there were certain additional exemptions from the requirement.
All that meant was if the hi-cap mags were legally manufactured and possessed prior to the ban (millions were), then you could buy and sell those. You just couldnt make and sell new ones. They were legally on the market during that time frame.
| 490 |
tnguitarist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:24:54am |
re: #479 lostlakehiker
What philosophy? That dreams are more real than reality? I've been around the block when it comes to education, and it's not every day that an algebra quiz comes back full of political-sounding words and paragraphs that make no sense and that in any case have nothing at all to do with the questions.
That's a textbook example of plain old, literal, insanity.
Diagnosing from afart? Frist?
| 491 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:25:07am |
re: #483 Charles
And by the way, all you really know from the fact that Loughner posted a list of books is that he posted a list of books. You don't even know that he actually read them. He could have copied and pasted that list just to impress people.
There's an awful lot of jumping to conclusions based on that one flimsy piece of evidence.
I saw the book list the other day. I have every one of those books in this house, and if I remember (don't have the list in front of me or bookmarked), I've read every one of those books at one time or another in my life. Yet, most people here have a basic idea of my political and social ideologies.
So, since I've read those books, what does that make me?
| 493 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:26:12am |
re: #479 lostlakehiker
What philosophy? That dreams are more real than reality? I've been around the block when it comes to education, and it's not every day that an algebra quiz comes back full of political-sounding words and paragraphs that make no sense and that in any case have nothing at all to do with the questions.
That's a textbook example of plain old, literal, insanity.
This is getting lost in the partisan bs but he didn't invent this stuff out of his own insanity.....
What motivated Arizona shooting suspect?
Some observers have found disparate philosophical threads in his writings. They point to the rhetoric of the antigovernment "Patriot" movement, for instance Loughner's suspicions about the government using grammar to enslave Americans – a position espoused by David Wynn Miller, a prominent Patriot leader. The Department of Homeland Security is also reportedly exploring "possible links" between Loughner and American Renaissance, a magazine devoted to what the ADL calls "intellectualized white supremacy."
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 494 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:26:34am |
| 495 |
Ericus58 Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:26:51am |
re: #491 Walter L. Newton
I saw the book list the other day. I have every one of those books in this house, and if I remember (don't have the list in front of me or bookmarked), I've read every one of those books at one time or another in my life. Yet, most people here have a basic idea of my political and social ideologies.
So, since I've read those books, what does that make me?
Old.
| 496 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:28:15am |
What legitimate civilian use is there for 33 round magazines? Can anybody defend the legality of this kind of magazine?
| 497 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:28:19am |
| 498 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:29:18am |
re: #483 Charles
And by the way, all you really know from the fact that Loughner posted a list of books is that he posted a list of books. You don't even know that he actually read them. He could have copied and pasted that list just to impress people.
There's an awful lot of jumping to conclusions based on that one flimsy piece of evidence.
Yep. And mountains of evidence of violent rhetoric from republicans shows that violent rhetoric has nothing to do with violence.
//
| 499 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:29:36am |
re: #496 Fozzie Bear
What legitimate civilian use is there for 33 round magazines? Can anybody defend the legality of this kind of magazine?
"I don't go anywhere without my mutated anthrax......for duck hunting."
| 500 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:29:57am |
re: #496 Fozzie Bear
What legitimate civilian use is there for 33 round magazines? Can anybody defend the legality of this kind of magazine?
Loading magazines is tedious? IDK..
| 501 |
Danny Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:30:41am |
| 502 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:31:25am |
re: #496 Fozzie Bear
I would note that banning those magazines would have just lowered the death toll here, it wouldn't have stopped the incident.
| 503 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:31:42am |
re: #496 Fozzie Bear
What legitimate civilian use is there for 33 round magazines? Can anybody defend the legality of this kind of magazine?
You've obviously never faced down a herd of turnip-crazed rabbits, their teeth gleaming in the moonlight...
| 504 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:31:55am |
re: #502 Obdicut
I would note that banning those magazines would have just lowered the death toll here, it wouldn't have stopped the incident.
Yes, of course. But it would have lowered the death toll.
| 505 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:31:55am |
re: #487 Obdicut
The Onion Field shootings were one example. The cops had revolvers. The details are in tactical texts, hard to link. The dead cop had brass in his shirt pocket, from his reload. Range discipline encroached on the gunfight.
Link to incident
| 506 |
tnguitarist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:32:10am |
re: #500 Amory Blaine
Loading magazines is tedious? IDK..
My FIL actually bought me one for my 9. I used it once at the range just to check it out. It sucks, anyway. Used it once and it jammed up 3 times. Seemed kinda senseless.
| 507 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:32:25am |
| 508 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:33:13am |
re: #503 Decatur Deb
..BAN THE DAMN TURNIPS!!!
/
| 509 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:33:27am |
re: #496 Fozzie Bear
What legitimate civilian use is there for 33 round magazines? Can anybody defend the legality of this kind of magazine?
I'm far from knowledgeable about gun laws or even guns (even though I have a shit load of them here, know how to shoot them), anyway, is the 33 shot magazine legal? Legal in Arizona?
I don't think legitimate and legal equates. I do know gun owners who think any piece of shooting equipment is legitimate, and probably could come up with a reasonable reason for ownership of that sort of equipment (reasonable for a gun owner).
I guess what I'm asking, does a piece of weaponry have to have a legitmate use to be legal?
| 510 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:33:31am |
re: #502 Obdicut
I would note that banning those magazines would have just lowered the death toll here, it wouldn't have stopped the incident.
If the guy wasn't an idiot, he would have bought a second gun on credit.
| 511 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:34:08am |
re: #481 Charles
It's just weird to me that people think they can divine a person's political orientation from their reading list.
Give it a shot:
August 1914, Solzhenitsyn
Babi Yar, Anatoly Kuznetsov
Milton Friedman, Capitalism and Freedom
Flooded Earth, Peter David Ward
Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis
Life and Fate, Vassily Grossman
Escape from Leipzig, Harald Fritzsch
essayists: Theodore Dalrymple, Thomas Sowell,
But reading list is not the same thing as "endorsed". There are good reasons to read books that advance wrong ideas. You just maintain the distinction between reading and believing.
| 512 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:35:29am |
re: #505 Rightwingconspirator
I'm sorry, but that story doesn't contain any gunplay between the policeman and their murderers. The kidnappers disarmed the policemen and took them away to a field to shoot them.
Can you cite the part with a gunfight?
| 513 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:35:33am |
| 514 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:36:38am |
| 515 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:36:42am |
re: #511 lostlakehiker
"But reading list is not the same thing as "endorsed". There are good reasons to read books that advance wrong ideas. You just maintain the distinction between reading and believing."
Reading varied materials exercises your brain prevents what I call cognitive inbreeding. Which is really the wrong term totally, but I think you get my meaning.
| 516 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:36:47am |
re: #513 reloadingisnotahobby
But your legs will look marvelous!!!
Whoa... is that you in the pictures?
| 517 |
Danny Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:37:25am |
re: #502 Obdicut
I would note that banning those magazines would have just lowered the death toll here, it wouldn't have stopped the incident.
Perhaps. Had he been unable to obtain hi-cap mags and decided instead to carry several guns, or been adept at quickly changing 10-cap magazines, or driven a vehicle into the crowd at high speed, or used a fertilizer/diesel fuel bomb, perhaps not.
| 518 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:37:53am |
| 519 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:39:08am |
| 520 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:39:24am |
re: #482 lawhawk
Yep, and as you read it note how simple it is to avoid the restrictions listed. "Pre-Ban" and "Post-Ban" were very common in gun circles. Pre-ban weapons and magazines remained legal and transferable while post-ban were simply those modified with funky looking "thumbhole" stocks and removal of things like flash suppressors and bayonet lugs that only really are of cosmetic value. Pre-ban did command a higher value but it was very possible to own a legal "assault weapon" that simply didn't fall under those restrictions. The Australian Inch Pattern FAL I rebuilt from a parts kit for example (wish I still owned it. It was fun to shoot).
| 521 |
dmon Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:39:52am |
In an interview with the hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons, which was posted on his Web site, Mr. Ailes said that his network would try to cool the heated rhetoric.
“I told all of our guys, shut up, tone it down, make your argument intellectually,” Mr. Ailes said. “You don’t have to do it with bombast. I hope the other side does that.”
Wow....watching Palin trying to make an intellectual point will be priceless.
| 522 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:39:52am |
| 523 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:40:41am |
re: #487 Obdicut
It's not just proven wisdom that there's no time to reload, it's that in the average shootout-- which is an incredibly, incredibly, incredibly rare incident in the first place-- there are very few shots actually fired. The police are the ones who most often engage in firefights; they've mostly found that the number of shots fired in a shootout is about six-- at or below the capacity of the handgun carried, and there was usually no reload.
There are no cases that I have ever heard of a policeman being killed while reloading. Do you have any such cases?
There was a shootout between two well armed killers and 8 FBI agents. The FBI won the firefight only because a gravely wounded man came off the deck and finished off the remaining active shooter. Hundreds of rounds were fired. The FBI, despite their numerical advantage, were heavily outgunned. Whether they were killed while reloading is beside the point. They weren't able to get off enough rounds without interruption to put down proper suppressive fire.
Two FBI were KIA, 5 WIA. Both suspects were killed.
There was a movie made about it: "The FBI murders".
| 524 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:40:58am |
re: #519 Amory Blaine
I just bought a pair of Sorels for the wife. Sexy!!
With the Faux Fur???
Admit it...they for YOUI!!
| 525 |
Amory Blaine Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:42:23am |
re: #524 reloadingisnotahobby
With the Faux Fur???
Admit it...they for YOUI!!
I tried to get her to get those but the fur didn't wrap "completely" around her calf. Oh well I tried ;)
| 526 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:42:36am |
Actually, the Jimmy Choo's could be effective in close combat.
| 528 |
Varek Raith Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:43:28am |
re: #526 ggt
Actually, the Jimmy Choo's could be effective in close combat.
*Note; Do not piss off ggt*
| 530 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:43:40am |
re: #523 lostlakehiker
Whether they were killed while reloading is beside the point.
Er, no, that is actually exactly the point when discussing extended magazines.
That was rifle vs. handguns. That has nothing to do with the subject of reloading. At all.
| 531 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:44:17am |
| 532 |
Decatur Deb Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:45:05am |
| 533 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:45:11am |
re: #512 Obdicut
Not easily. I'd have to contact some fellow instructors at ISI or Front Sight to find the report and the lesson plans/tactical training adjustments that followed. Then put them up where I could link it. For cops-no magazine restrictions should apply. Certainly not for SWAT guys.
Take my word for it this time?
| 534 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:45:37am |
| 535 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:45:55am |
re: #493 Killgore Trout
This is getting lost in the partisan bs but he didn't invent this stuff out of his own insanity...
What motivated Arizona shooting suspect?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
When you write that DHS is "reportedly" investigating, you're probably correct. But by whose report, and with what reliability? Let's wait and see what the investigation reveals, if there even is one.
| 536 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:46:53am |
re: #523 lostlakehiker
There was a shootout between two well armed killers and 8 FBI agents. The FBI won the firefight only because a gravely wounded man came off the deck and finished off the remaining active shooter. Hundreds of rounds were fired. The FBI, despite their numerical advantage, were heavily outgunned. Whether they were killed while reloading is beside the point. They weren't able to get off enough rounds without interruption to put down proper suppressive fire.
Two FBI were KIA, 5 WIA. Both suspects were killed.
There was a movie made about it: "The FBI murders".
What could be more on point when discussing whether extended magazines increase the potential body count?
| 537 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:48:49am |
The anti-government grammar of :David-Wynn: Miller
:g-gt:
That is the correct way to do the punctuation to get out of taxes?re: #493 Killgore Trout
or is it:
:g-g:t
??
| 538 |
Fozzie Bear Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:48:59am |
re: #535 lostlakehiker
When you write that DHS is "reportedly" investigating, you're probably correct. But by whose report, and with what reliability? Let's wait and see what the investigation reveals, if there even is one.
Why not look at it yourself. Look at the shooter's writings, then look at DWM's writings. If you don't see a resemblance, I don't know what to say to you.
Don't act like DHS are the only people who can draw conclusions based on this. You have full access to the writings of both the shooter and DWM. Look at them. Then tell me it isn't obvious that the shooter read DWM.
| 539 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:49:11am |
re: #487 Obdicut
I
There are no cases that I have ever heard of a policeman being killed while reloading. Do you have any such cases?
Many officers have died over the years while reloading. Especially in the days when revolvers were carried and many departments would not allow those new fangled Speedloaders (round gadget holds six rounds ready to drop in place. I keep two around when I have the need.) Now it's less common but still happens because in stressfull situations it's very easy to go through 14 or 15 rounds in a magazine without hitting anyone. Those 6 shot gunfights might be average but there are 1 shot ones and 50 shot ones at the extremes.
A dirty little secret of the gun world is that the vast majority of crooks are extremely poor shots who have never fired their weapon until the crime is being committed. Another secret is that until relatively recently most police officers were little better because what range training they had bore no resemblance to reality. I'll see if I can scare up some links, probably to Massad Ayoob.
| 540 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:50:49am |
re: #536 Fozzie Bear
The incident has literally nothing to do with what I was talking about. Every single FBI agent killed during that shootout was killed by the .223 rifle. That was the main problem. The other complaint from the FBI agents was the lack of stopping power of their guns. Absolutely not mentioned as a problem: magazine capacity.
| 541 |
McSpiff Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:50:49am |
re: #537 ggt
:g-gt:
That is the correct way to do the punctuation to get out of taxes?
or is it:
:g-g:t
??
More like...
[Link: xkcd.com...]
| 542 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:50:52am |
re: #490 tnguitarist
Diagnosing from afart? Frist?
Armchair diagnosis, yeah. But one has to start somewhere.
The legal standard for an insanity defense is very high. But to get the death penalty, prosecutors normally need to show that there is nothing remotely like an exonerating or mitigating factor in the situation.
I predict conviction on all sorts of counts, but no death penalty, and mandatory psychiatric treatment. Given the number of people he killed, he'll probably serve a life sentence and die in prison.
| 543 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:51:10am |
re: #539 wlewisiii
"I'll see if I can scare up some links, probably to Massad Ayoob."
I have one of his books --about home firearm safety. It's one of the books I give to gently encourage people to overcome their irrational fear of firearms--when they are interested in doing so.
Wonderful book.
| 544 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:52:49am |
re: #542 lostlakehiker
Armchair diagnosis, yeah. But one has to start somewhere.
The legal standard for an insanity defense is very high. But to get the death penalty, prosecutors normally need to show that there is nothing remotely like an exonerating or mitigating factor in the situation.
I predict conviction on all sorts of counts, but no death penalty, and mandatory psychiatric treatment. Given the number of people he killed, he'll probably serve a life sentence and die in prison.
You don't think the head shrinkers will want to study him? More likely Psych lock-up.
| 545 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:53:12am |
re: #539 wlewisiii
I think that points to the problem being more firing discipline than magazine capacity; I completely agree with you that most criminals, and, sadly, most police officers's, gun skills in a real-life situation are unrealistic.
Bullets have to land somewhere; that's another problem with extended magazines, even for police use.
| 546 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:53:49am |
re: #536 Fozzie Bear
What could be more on point when discussing whether extended magazines increase the potential body count?
Oh, they do. And that was my point. It's not so much that you can get killed while reloading. It's that your partner can get killed while you're reloading rather than laying down enough rounds to keep the bad guys' heads down.
And of course from the perspective of the bad guys, you can get tackled while reloading. Which is just what happened.
| 547 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:54:35am |
I've go to do laundry and stuff,
I will not go up-thread, I will not go up-thread, I will not go up-thread . . .
Have a great day all!
| 548 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 10:55:55am |
re: #546 lostlakehiker
Why are you ignoring what the actual FBI said was the problems in that shootout?
1. The suspects had a rifle
2. The FBI's handguns had insufficient stopping power
3. The tactical vests, which most weren't wearing, were only handgun resistant, not up to the .223.
The problem they cited with reloading wasn't about magazine capacity, but that reloading a revolver is much harder than reloading a semiautomatic.
| 549 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:02:37am |
re: #540 Obdicut
If capacity is not an issue, why did cops go from revolvers to high cap semi auto guns? It's not stopping power, the 9mm and .38 are about the same in +p+ configuration, and .357 is as strong as .45 in kinetic energy.
Revolvers are much more reliable less expensive and are now available in all the calibers. But cops carry semi auto guns. They reload easier/faster.
I made a couple calls for incident reports, but I think this answers you point. I may have cited the wrong shoot with Onion Field. When it comes to reloading, faster is safer of cops and CCW. And have more than you need and not using them is better than coming up 1 shot short.
| 550 |
Spocomptonite Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:06:39am |
| 551 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:08:58am |
re: #457 lostlakehiker
Because he listed "The Communist Manifesto" as one of his favorites.
Not that I think he'd read it and understood it, mind you. Just that if we postulate that he was sane, which he is not, then even so, he would not be RW because a liking for "Communist Manifesto" is incompatible with RW ideology.
He also listed Mein Kampf. So?
| 552 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:12:33am |
re: #548 Obdicut
I just got a call back, with more info-Not the Onion Field incident. I'll follow up further if you like. Ca highway patrol-Area Castaic or ridge route. There was a chase to a store like a 7-11. A firefight ensued-The cop got charged upon and shot by the bad guy as the patrolman reloaded his revolver.
| 553 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:13:37am |
re: #549 Rightwingconspirator
If capacity is not an issue, why did cops go from revolvers to high cap semi auto guns?
Because revolvers are really hard to reload.
It's not stopping power, the 9mm and .38 are about the same in +p+ configuration, and .357 is as strong as .45 in kinetic energy.
Argue that with the FBI.
And have more than you need and not using them is better than coming up 1 shot short.
If you're firing in a panic, it really doesn't matter if you have 14 or 6. Increased firing discipline would seem a hell of a lot better.
| 554 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:14:02am |
re: #552 Rightwingconspirator
I'll fully grant that revolvers are really hard to reload.
| 555 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:15:03am |
re: #467 lostlakehiker
Anybody who lists both Mein Kampf and Communist Manifesto as favorites doesn't have any coherent political philosophy. Just a passion for destruction. Both ideologies are at their roots full of hatred of life itself, and seek the ruin of their own people along with everybody else.
And it was this that our shooter somehow discerned through the fog of his mental illness.
LOL, he also listed Orwell, who is as anti-totalitarian as one can be.
| 556 |
Political Atheist Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:17:07am |
re: #553 Obdicut
Okay so we see reloading is a factor-too slow and you die. Argues well for hi capacity in cops and home defense. As to panic fire, well that is strictly a training issue. Not a gun issue. And BTW being aggressively addressed at academies all over.
I have no need to argue anything with the FBI. They carry semi auto guns. Not understanding your point there.
Gotta go work is picking up.
| 557 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:18:50am |
re: #552 Rightwingconspirator
I just got a call back, with more info-Not the Onion Field incident. I'll follow up further if you like. Ca highway patrol-Area Castaic or ridge route. There was a chase to a store like a 7-11. A firefight ensued-The cop got charged upon and shot by the bad guy as the patrolman reloaded his revolver.
I'm pretty sure that's one of the cases I was thinking of. He was crouching behind the squad car's door trying to load one at a time from belt loops, IIRC. Revolvers are good tools but they demand more skill than people realize.
| 558 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:21:21am |
re: #511 lostlakehiker
Give it a shot:
August 1914, Solzhenitsyn
Babi Yar, Anatoly Kuznetsov
Milton Friedman, Capitalism and Freedom
Flooded Earth, Peter David Ward
Screwtape Letters, C.S. Lewis
Life and Fate, Vassily Grossman
Escape from Leipzig, Harald Fritzschessayists: Theodore Dalrymple, Thomas Sowell,
But reading list is not the same thing as "endorsed". There are good reasons to read books that advance wrong ideas. You just maintain the distinction between reading and believing.
This reading list is supposed to be the glimpse into one's ideology (apparently, with emphasis on anti-Nazi and anti-Commie anti-totalitarianism, Christianity and free markets). We don't know that about Loughner's list, despite the word "favorite" he used.
PS: good choice on Kuznetsov's book; not so much with Solzh's book which has antisemitic overtones by emphasizing the Jewishness of Stolypin's assassin, while in reality he was quite assimilated and didn't call himself "Mordko"; but I digress).
| 559 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:22:34am |
re: #556 Rightwingconspirator
Argues well for hi capacity in cops and home defense.
No. It argues for easy-to-reload.
| 560 |
lostlakehiker Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:23:32am |
re: #360 Fozzie Bear
It IS naturally more at home in movements that advocate violence. That's a no brainer.
The same goes for religion. There are religions with a prominent violent streak, e.g. Aztec [war for the purpose of getting victims for human sacrifice] and others, e.g. Jain, that have been remarkably peaceful. In the middle, one has for instance Christianity, Judaism, and Hinduism, with a mix of warlike eras and efforts at keeping the peace.
But Left and Right both have their violent streak, with Communism and Nazism at the endpoints.
Violent rhetoric is not all that diagnostic here. What really clinches the case is when political movements have "direct action" arms: IRA, brownshirts, etc. In Europe today, "anti-fascist" leagues and EDL goons come to mind.
| 561 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:31:44am |
An above average hunter/shooter with a high powered hunting/sniper rifle
with great DISIPLINE would be able to score 7-8 hits out of ten round fire.
As Obdict pointed out....
Proper cover position and clear field of fire.....It's a good thing no one
with that mind set and skills has "Gone off" in a while!
| 562 |
Ziggy Standard Tue, Jan 11, 2011 11:59:41am |
re: #348 reine.de.tout
Here's where it gets sticky, when a few begin to go beyond the message "the rhetoric is dangerous", and actually BLAME the rhetoric instead of this guy's obviously lunacy, and with it blaming conservative ideology, causing people to become defensive, and making it very difficult to get the message across. Seen it happening here, or at least getting very very close.
I absolutely do blame the rhetoric, while not in any sense dismissing the role of the murderer's lunacy.
Armory Blaine is not alone in reading your post as a blatant and bizarre attempt to get the rhetoric, and by implication the assholes who have been promoting it, off the hook.
Anyone who engages in creating an atmosphere of political hate including incitements to violence absolutely DOES bear a heavy weight of responsibility for actual political violence that follows.
| 563 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 12:05:38pm |
re: #562 Jimmah
No. They bear a heavy weight of responsibility even if no actual political violence follows. The rhetoric is wildly irresponsible even if no one actually follows through.
Kind of the other end of the pipe.
| 564 |
Ziggy Standard Tue, Jan 11, 2011 12:16:44pm |
re: #563 Obdicut
No. They bear a heavy weight of responsibility even if no actual political violence follows. The rhetoric is wildly irresponsible even if no one actually follows through.
Kind of the other end of the pipe.
Yes, they also bear responsibility for creating this climate of hatred and extremism among their followers even if no murders ensue. And when murders do ensue as they have done here, they absolutely do bear responsibility for them.
As Curious Lurker pointed out the other day, no-one would think for a moment of trying to excuse jihadist rhetoric by questioning the sanity of those who follow through on it.
| 565 |
Ziggy Standard Tue, Jan 11, 2011 12:22:26pm |
re: #459 Walter L. Newton
And when I get into a snit with another Lizard, we work it out. Either on here, or in personal communications.
No you fucking don't.
| 566 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 12:23:38pm |
re: #564 Jimmah
And when murders do ensue as they have done here, they absolutely do bear responsibility for them.
It depends what you mean by 'responsibility', I guess. I think there's a much stronger causal link between tobacco executives and the deaths of people from lung cancer. However, our legal system doesn't at all work that way.
If you mean ethically, then what I'm saying is that their dangerous rhetoric means assigning responsibility for individual incidents is a moot point; what they're doing is, on its own, incitement to violence. The actual violence doesn't really matter. Even if everyone rose above it and ignored their calls to violence, they'd still be assholic shitheads for trying to promote violence.
They were no less guilty of inciting violence the day before this shooting-- especially since we've already had so much politically motivated violence over the past two years.
| 567 |
Obdicut Tue, Jan 11, 2011 12:23:52pm |
re: #565 Jimmah
No you fucking don't.
Heh. It's always an open question on whether Walter believes his own bullshit.
| 568 |
Ziggy Standard Tue, Jan 11, 2011 1:27:54pm |
Ok then 'wee fury' - since you disagreed with my comment - tell me how Walter "worked it out" with me after calling my wife a prostitute?
Piece of shit.
| 569 |
Reginald Perrin Tue, Jan 11, 2011 2:04:04pm |
re: #567 Obdicut
Heh. It's always an open question on whether Walter believes his own bullshit.
It just a big game to him, it's about feeding his insatiable hunger for attention. On a positive note, there is one supermarket in Colorado that no longer has to pass out ear plugs to customers in his checkout line.
| 570 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 3:07:50pm |
re: #562 Jimmah
I absolutely do blame the rhetoric, while not in any sense dismissing the role of the murderer's lunacy.
Armory Blaine is not alone in reading your post as a blatant and bizarre attempt to get the rhetoric, and by implication the assholes who have been promoting it, off the hook.
Anyone who engages in creating an atmosphere of political hate including incitements to violence absolutely DOES bear a heavy weight of responsibility for actual political violence that follows.
If you bother to read what I've written, you will see that I abhor and denounce the violent incendiary rhetoric, and yes indeed, those who promote it are assholes and need to stop it.
General conservative ideology, however, is not evil, and there are conservatives like myself, ideologically conservative who who denounce that rhetoric.
And that's the distinction I'm making that your friend Amory is not; too blinded by his hate for anything different, I suppose, to understand that difference. As you apparently are, as well.
| 571 |
Ziggy Standard Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:42:38pm |
re: #570 reine.de.tout
I have 'bothered' to read what you have written, that is one reason why your choice of words here seems bizarre to say the least.
You see, (as I think I made perfectly clear btw) I am not talking about your remarks about "general conservative ideology". I am talking about what appears to be your attempt to absolve extremist rhetoric of blame.
If you had simply written about the unfairness of blaming "general conservative ideology" - without trying to simultaneously deflect blame from the rhetoric then I wouldn't have had cause to take issue with what you said.
You wrote :
Here's where it gets sticky, when a few begin to go beyond the message "the rhetoric is dangerous", and actually BLAME the rhetoricinstead of this guy's obviously lunacy
But I guess it's just my 'blind hatred' that is making me see those words, right?
| 572 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jan 11, 2011 4:58:50pm |
re: #571 Jimmah
I have 'bothered' to read what you have written, that is one reason why your choice of words here seems bizarre to say the least.
You see, (as I think I made perfectly clear btw) I am not talking about your remarks about "general conservative ideology". I am talking about what appears to be your attempt to absolve extremist rhetoric of blame.
If you had simply written about the unfairness of blaming "general conservative ideology" - without trying to simultaneously deflect blame from the rhetoric then I wouldn't have had cause to take issue with what you said.
You wrote :
But I guess it's just my 'blind hatred' that is making me see those words, right?
My statement may have been clumsily written; but I have nowhere tried to deflect from the heinousness of the rhetoric. Jared Lee Loughner responded to the heated rhetoric by arming himself and shooting Giffords and a bunch of other people. I have nowhere denied that.
It sure seems to me that you just actively search for opportunities to use words like "bizarre" and "blatant deflection" and other negatives in a response to something I've posted, rather than seeking a clarification from me, you just jump in with guns blazing. Have at it.
| 573 |
Ziggy Standard Tue, Jan 11, 2011 5:17:40pm |
re: #572 reine.de.tout
My statement may have been clumsily written; but I have nowhere tried to deflect from the heinousness of the rhetoric.
And I have updinged several of your posts and pages where you have made sensible points on the subject. But in this case you said :
a few begin to go beyond the message "the rhetoric is dangerous", and actually BLAME the rhetoric instead of this guy's obviously lunacy
It looked to me, and others here, like you were trying to steer blame away from those spouting this kind of rhetoric and make it all about the murderer's mental illness - which happens to be a major wingnut talking point right now.
If you are now admitting that your post was clumsily written, then why are you accusing those who merely read it the way it actually reads of being 'blinded by hate'?
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