Obama News Conference

Politics • Views: 1,732

Here’s a thread to discuss President Obama’s news conference, now beginning …

UPDATE at 6/23/09 10:12:31 am:

Here are Obama’s opening remarks on Iran, for the record:

The United States and the international community have been appalled and outraged by the threats, beatings, and imprisonments of the last few days. I strongly condemn these unjust actions, and I join with the American people in mourning each and every innocent life that is lost.

I have made it clear that the United States respects the sovereignty of the Islamic Republic of Iran, and is not at all interfering in Iran’s affairs. But we must also bear witness to the courage and dignity of the Iranian people, and to a remarkable opening within Iranian society. And we deplore violence against innocent civilians anywhere that it takes place.

The Iranian people are trying to have a debate about their future. Some in the Iranian government are trying to avoid that debate by accusing the United States and others outside of Iran of instigating protests over the elections. These accusations are patently false and absurd. They are an obvious attempt to distract people from what is truly taking place within Iran’s borders. This tired strategy of using old tensions to scapegoat other countries won’t work anymore in Iran. This is not about the United States and the West; this is about the people of Iran, and the future that they – and only they – will choose.

The Iranian people can speak for themselves. That is precisely what has happened these last few days. In 2009, no iron fist is strong enough to shut off the world from bearing witness to the peaceful pursuit of justice. Despite the Iranian government’s efforts to expel journalists and isolate itself, powerful images and poignant words have made their way to us through cell phones and computers, and so we have watched what the Iranian people are doing.

This is what we have witnessed. We have seen the timeless dignity of tens of thousands Iranians marching in silence. We have seen people of all ages risk everything to insist that their votes are counted and their voices heard. Above all, we have seen courageous women stand up to brutality and threats, and we have experienced the searing image of a woman bleeding to death on the streets. While this loss is raw and painful, we also know this: those who stand up for justice are always on the right side of history.

As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people have a universal right to assembly and free speech. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect those rights, and heed the will of its own people. It must govern through consent, not coercion. That is what Iran’s own people are calling for, and the Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government.

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692 comments
1 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:33:13am

There goes my 401(k) AGAIN!

*sigh*

2 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:33:37am

Is it on yet?

3 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:33:48am

He ----> did it.

Bye.

4 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:34:13am

Dow starts at -20.

5 saberry0530  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:34:16am

The only words that I would like to hear from HIm is "Effective immediately, I resign from the office of President of the United States"

HEH, a guy can dream!

6 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:34:19am

re: #1 CIA Reject

Well it depends. Is he talking economy, world events, or his latest family outing?

/sorry, that last one is just a little too snarky.

7 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:34:39am

Too painful to watch. I'll wait here for the play-by-play.

8 jorline  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:34:57am

PBO...Loss of life is painful and wrong.

9 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:34:58am

Little late there isn't it O?

10 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:03am

Obama is talking about Iran. Will he actually do anything?

11 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:15am

He just linked his Cairo speech with what's happening in Iran.

12 Baier  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:20am

Just get they guy his own TV station already...oh wait...he already has several.

13 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:30am

Now to the important stuff. Higher taxes on engery.

14 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:38am

re: #5 saberry0530

The only words that I would like to hear from HIm is "Effective immediately, I resign from the office of President of the United States"

HEH, a guy can dream!

You really want to hear the words, "President Biden"?

15 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:41am

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

He just linked his Cairo speech with what's happening in Iran.

Hubris...

16 jorline  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:42am

Now that's out of the way...let's talk to clean energy.

17 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:50am
18 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:52am
As I said in Cairo, Suppressing ideas doesn't make them go away.

Doesn't sound the way he intends it. Sounds like advice for how to make ideas go away, by avoiding common mistakes. Who writes this stuff, and then lets him repeat it again and again.

19 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:54am

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

He just linked his Cairo speech with what's happening in Iran.

Funny thing is, I think several people mentioned that he'd do this quite some time ago.

20 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:56am

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

Obama is talking about Iran. Will he actually do anything?

He's offering them hope for change.

21 Baier  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:35:59am

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

He just linked his Cairo speech with what's happening in Iran.

That is going to backfire. Mark my words.

22 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:36:03am

re: #15 BlueCanuck

Hubris...

Bless you.

23 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:36:05am

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

He just linked his Cairo speech with what's happening in Iran.

He did- what did he say

24 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:36:10am

now he's talking about "clean energy". Oh brother. As an aside, it looks like he's reading from cards.

25 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:36:13am

I wish his ears would grow every time he lied.

26 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:36:27am

re: #14 Son of the Black Dog

You really want to hear the words, "President Biden"?

I do. At least he wouldn't be on TV every day.

27 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:36:32am

Obama: The US will build nuclear power plants and drill offshore oil resources.///
NOT

28 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:36:37am

re: #14 Son of the Black Dog

You really want to hear the words, "President Biden"?

I want to hear "President Bolton" or at least "Secretary of State John Bolton"

29 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:36:42am

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

now he's talking about "clean energy". Oh brother. As an aside, it looks like he's reading from cards.

Is he ruining the coal industry as he promised?

30 sonofsheldon  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:36:45am

On the one hand, he's kind of wishy washy on Iran, speaking in generalities. But on the other hand, unless the Iranians overthrow the mullahs, will there be any change between the old president and the new president?

Oh crap, "clean energy". Same old same old. Aargh!

31 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:36:46am

"...will be paid for by the polluters"

32 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:37:08am

re: #6 BlueCanuck

Well it depends. Is he talking economy, world events, or his latest family outing?

/sorry, that last one is just a little too snarky.

Heh- guess it's too late to get some puts in on the Dow though, eh? I really should pay more attention to his calendar- I could probably make a lot of money by doing just that...

33 Baier  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:37:09am

re: #25 MandyManners

I wish his ears would grow every time he lied.

We could get rid of Air Force One by now

34 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:37:13am

re: #31 haakondahl

"...will be paid for by the polluters"

Sending a bill to China?

35 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:37:17am

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

now he's talking about "clean energy". Oh brother. As an aside, it looks like he's reading from cards.

TOTUS fall over?

36 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:37:44am

re: #23 Nevergiveup

He did- what did he say

Something about (paraphase) "As I said in Cario..." as he was discussing that Iran's people are free to make their feeling known.

37 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:37:45am

During the depression taxes were raised. Same thing now.

38 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:37:46am

Time for some basic literacy in logic:

A tautology is the opposite of a contradiction.

In a contradiction, two coupled propositions can never evaluate to true.

In a tautology, the two coupled propositions can never evaluate to false.

Our president reframes issues using strawmen and other rhetorical fallacies to create tautologies in support of his proposed course of action. Then he tells you that it would be irrational to not follow his proposed course of action.

His critics are sucked into arguing his propositions when they should attack the fallacies that were used to place the tautological pairing of said propositions in the first place.

39 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:37:56am

re: #35 Son of the Black Dog

TOTUS fall over?

Union rules preclude its working at this time.

40 saberry0530  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:38:02am

re: #14 Son of the Black Dog

You really want to hear the words, "President Biden"?

At least there would be a comedy of errors versus a Greek tragedy.

41 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:38:04am

re: #20 Kosh's Shadow

He's offering them hope for change.

groan... I have to get going or I'll miss my lunch. I also can't watch that, that, Obamination without becoming furious. Take care all.

42 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:38:07am

I think he's reading from notes...he isn't watching the usual tennis match.

43 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:38:28am

re: #14 Son of the Black Dog

You really want to hear the words, "President Biden"?

Idiots are more easily survived than megalomaniacs.

44 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:38:32am

re: #37 kansas

During the depression taxes were raised. Same thing now.

That did a nifty job of extending the Depression.

45 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:38:41am

It was too hot in the rose garden for TOTUS --must have collapsed.

46 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:38:50am

Come together and pass it!

Sounds like two bodily functions. Must be speaking to the Germans again.

47 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:39:00am

It's health care, not the trillions of dollars of the stimpulus that is ruining America.

Believe that? Wanna buy a bridge?

48 Ron Bacardi  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:39:09am

Barely anything on Iran..... disgusting.

49 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:39:19am

re: #33 Baier

We could get rid of Air Force One by now

President Dumbo!

50 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:39:27am

I'll bet he only takes 3 comments/questions from his peeps: NBC, CBS, HuffPost

51 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:39:44am

Pipe down people, our Dear Leader is speaking!
/

52 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:39:50am

"Cannot throw good money after bad habits."

Hmmm...

53 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:39:55am

Time for Uh count?

54 Ron Bacardi  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:09am

Just "profound" and we're "waiting to see"?! Are you insane, Mr. President?


I never thought that I would start MISSING Bush this early, but I friggin am.... I can't believe this.

55 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:32am

Ya know?

56 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:32am

The other day, after seeing Obama in a superhero cartoon parody, My little boy said he looked like a teletubby.

57 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:36am

OT - I forget who was asking about spy books yesterday, but this one is really good:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

58 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:37am

Iran must stop exporting terrorism outside of its borders.

Fokker.

59 Kragar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:39am

Did they scatter rose petals before him as he entered the room?

60 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:39am

re: #25 MandyManners

I wish his ears would grow every time he lied.

That's terribly unfair to Jar Jar Binks!

61 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:46am

"In the midst of an extraordinary debate taking place in Iran..."

62 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:51am

Ed Shultz is bothered by the bi-partisan tenor of Obama's portion of his press conference.

63 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:55am

He just called the protests and deaths an "extraordinary debate taking place". What a fucking ignorant idiot.

64 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:55am

re: #52 haakondahl

"Cannot throw good money after bad habits."

Hmmm...

Wonder if that's to do with his smoking?

65 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:40:56am

extraordinary "debate" taking place in iran?

you must be fuckin kidding me

66 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:41:13am

"We will monitor . . ." I feel better now./

67 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:41:19am

re: #57 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - I forget who was asking about spy books yesterday, but this one is really good:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

That would be me. Thanks for the link.

68 Kragar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:41:21am

re: #61 haakondahl

"In the midst of an extraordinary debate taking place in Iran..."

People getting gunned down in the streets = debate

/

69 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:41:26am

re: #25 MandyManners

I wish his ears would grow every time he lied.

Seven people were injured when the President suddenly turned around today....

70 blangwort  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:41:28am

re: #35 Son of the Black Dog

TOTUS fall over?

Biden broke it, remember?

71 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:41:31am

re: #62 Walter L. Newton

Ed Shultz is bothered by the bi-partisan tenor of Obama's portion of his press conference.

I'm bothered by Ed Shultz.

72 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:41:38am

International rules that are universal.

Uh, does this mean that there are no disagreements about what is acceptable?

73 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:41:38am

re: #57 Mad Al-Jaffee

OT - I forget who was asking about spy books yesterday, but this one is really good:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

I missed the list, but I liked this one - Spycraft

74 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:41:49am

re: #63 MandyManners

He just called the protests and deaths an "extraordinary debate taking place". What a fucking ignorant idiot.

So if I want to have an extraordinary debate with the leftards in my neighborhood, can I break out the AKs?

/

75 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:42:05am

Huff Po? Fuck me.

76 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:42:06am

Does this fucker really think that a point scored in a debate is equal to the death of a human being?

77 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:42:06am

Bingo--Huffpost.

78 JustABill  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:42:24am

re: #5 saberry0530

The only words that I would like to hear from HIm is "Effective immediately, I resign from the office of President of the United States"

HEH, a guy can dream!

As long as its not followed by a Hillary resignation, that would be great. If both he and Hillary resigned, heaven help us...

79 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:42:26am

re: #58 SasquatchOnSteroids

Iran must stop exporting terrorism outside of its borders.

Fokker.

Well, they've started importing terrorists to deal with their citizens.

80 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:42:28am

re: #76 MandyManners

Does this fucker really think that a point scored in a debate is equal to the death of a human being?

Yes.

81 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:42:31am

Relaying Q from Iranian:

82 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:42:37am

re: #76 MandyManners

Does this fucker really think that a point scored in a debate is equal to the death of a human being?

Yes.

83 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:42:50am

re: #47 midwestgak

It's health care, not the trillions of dollars of the stimpulus that is ruining America.

Believe that? Wanna buy a bridge?

Medical Tourism is a growth industry. What they won't tell you is that 70%+ of all medical tourists ENTER the United States.

84 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:42:59am

I really like letting the Iranians ask him a question. Like that.

85 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:43:00am

re: #80 katemaclaren

GMTA!

86 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:43:12am

re: #76 MandyManners

Does this fucker really think that a point scored in a debate is equal to the death of a human being?

Hell yes!

87 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:43:12am

re: #67 Creeping Eruption

I think you'll like it. Mendez is also in the Erol Morris series "First Person." That's how I first heard of him. You can get that from Netflix.

88 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:43:13am

re: #72 haakondahl

International rules that are universal.

Uh, does this mean that there are no disagreements about what is acceptable?

I thought that "universalities" posed a HUGE issue for the left since assertions of truth are always culturally defined and therefore an act of oppression when the "truth claim" is applied universally.

89 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:43:37am

"There *is* significant questions".

90 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:43:43am

re: #65 _RememberTonyC

extraordinary "debate" taking place in iran?

you must be fuckin kidding me

Debate? --possibly like one with Don Corleone.

91 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:05am

re: #76 MandyManners

Does this fucker really think that a point scored in a debate is equal to the death of a human being?

No. Not at all.

It is worth much more.

92 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:05am

It has gotten to the point that I just can't listen to Obama speak anymore. Voiced doublespeak and forced bullshit makes me livid. I will just read transcripts to get what he's saying instead of raising my blood pressure.

93 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:17am

MUTE.

94 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:27am

Obama's classic straddle: "On the one hand, one must mourn the loss of innocents lives in Iran. On the other hand, we respect Iranian sovereignty, and the right of the Iranian government to govern its citizens as it sees fit."

95 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:30am

re: #72 haakondahl

International rules that are universal.

Care to review the international rules on the sanctity of Embassy grounds, Mr. President?

96 ointmentfly  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:40am

He is such a wuss.... "Its up to the Iranian people to choose their leaders"? Bullets and batons seem to be working against that notion. This guy is such an empty suit.

97 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:40am

The benefits of no tv....

98 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:44am

re: #11 Walter L. Newton

He just linked his Cairo speech with what's happening in Iran.

OMG this guy will say anyting for political gain.

99 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:47am

If Obama accepts MA, isn't that a betrayal?

"We didn't have observers, we didn't watch polling places.
Sizable percent of Iranians considered the election invalid. Not isolated grumbling here and there. ... Up to the Iranians ...

Int'l norms [again, third time] dealing with peaceful dissent

"Not too late for Iran gov't to realize that there is a peaeful path that will lead to peace and prosperity, hope they take it"

100 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:54am

re: #50 katemaclaren

I'll bet he only takes 3 comments/questions from his peeps: NBC, CBS, HuffPost

I'm waiting...oh oh oh..I forgot Reuters! Well, now I also forgot Al Jazeera and AP.

101 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:44:58am

Q: Mr. President, used "Neda" in a sentence.
O: I neda cigarette.
/ sigh

102 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:45:15am

re: #92 MrSilverDragon

It has gotten to the point that I just can't listen to Obama speak anymore. Voiced doublespeak and forced bullshit makes me livid. I will just read transcripts to get what he's saying instead of raising my blood pressure.

Think: ORWELL.

103 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:45:16am

If what is happening in Iran is "Debate" then maybe "tough diplomacy" will include bombing.

/ Hope

104 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:45:24am

re: #88 karmic_inquisitor

I thought that "universalities" posed a HUGE issue for the left since assertions of truth are always culturally defined and therefore an act of oppression when the "truth claim" is applied universally.

Zackly! What it means is that he will decide

Can you say UNCONSTRAINED VISION ?

105 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:45:31am

re: #93 MandyManners

MUTE.

Who was it that was calling the MUTE button on the remote the "TOTUS STFU button"?

LOL!

106 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:45:34am

44 has just thrown the whole of the Iranian opposition under the bus.

Grow a pair.
*SPIT*

107 Sacred Plants  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:45:43am

honk against tyranny when driving into the refill station

108 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:01am

FCBBHO is not worthy of licking Neda's tennis shoes.

109 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:01am

re: #92 MrSilverDragon

It has gotten to the point that I just can't listen to Obama speak anymore. Voiced doublespeak and forced bullshit makes me livid. I will just read transcripts to get what he's saying instead of raising my blood pressure.

uh, what did you say?
/

110 Irish Rose  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:02am

Hope! Change! Not!

111 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:04am

Obama makes me long for the halcyon days of Bill Clinton...

112 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:13am
113 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:18am

A bullet thru the heart ain't a fuckin' talking point, dipshit.

114 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:27am

3rd Q. Will there be a fourth?

115 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:29am

re: #111 tfc3rid

Obama makes me long for the halcyon days of Bill Clinton...

Anybody

116 quickjustice  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:34am

re: #38 karmic_inquisitor

And the GOP fall into his rhetorical trap every time. Dumb and Dumber.

117 jorline  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:38am

re: #107 Sacred Plants

honk against tyranny when driving into the refill station

Smoke another one...just before noon here.

118 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:38am

Don't you think he's reading the answers from somewhere? Like a tiny blackberry embedded into his podium? Like Soap Opera actors do...lines on the lamps, in a drawer, on the sofa...

119 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:43am

re: #102 katemaclaren

Think: ORWELL.

Don't need to think it, it's already understood...

...and that's double plus ungood.

120 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:49am

Hey KT -

Is Obama a right wing nut job for claiming his Cairo speech has contributed to the protest movement in Iran?

121 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:51am

When the only tool you have is a speech, every problem looks like a debate.

122 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:54am

re: #105 CIA Reject

LOL, that's funny! Was is OR?

123 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:46:58am

re: #106 Erik The Red

44 has just thrown the whole of the Iranian opposition under the bus.

Grow a pair.
*SPIT*

That's a freakin' BIG bus! Grayhound ain't got nuttin dat big!

124 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:47:02am

I bet no fourth. He got his economy question, and he's going long into the evening on it.

125 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:47:05am
"extraordinary debate"

I grant that it's wise for him to be cautious, even a bit circumspect regarding direct (Direct!) statements.

That said, Obama is waffling away from even "timid".

In a political/statesmanship metaphor, this is approaching the criminal.

126 Irish Rose  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:47:06am

re: #97 Sharmuta

The benefits of no tv....

I'm with you, better company in here.

127 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:47:23am

re: #94 quickjustice

Obama's classic straddle: "On the one hand, one must mourn the loss of innocents lives in Iran. On the other hand, we respect Iranian sovereignty, and the right of the Iranian government to govern its citizens as it sees fit."

Hey, that isn't "straddling"- that's nuance!

*SPIT*

128 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:47:28am

after this press conference is over, Charles Krauthammer is standing by on FOX News to comment. I am quite sure he'll address the "extraordinary debate" comment and the absolute joke that it was.

129 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:47:30am

re: #102 katemaclaren

Think: ORWELL.

"I do not write lies; I simply substitute one bit of nonsense for another. I correct the statements and the Ministry of Truth will see to it that no matter where the original statement appeared; newspaper, book, publication or film, these items will be destroyed and replaced with current copies. Everything fades away into this shadow-world where even the date of the current day will become uncertain."

130 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:47:35am

re: #98 turn

OMG this guy will say anyting for political gain.

Will, and has. He does go on and on and on after answering a question, Arg.

Shut Up!1

131 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:47:42am

re: #101 Cannadian Club Akbar

Q: Mr. President, used "Neda" in a sentence.
O: I neda cigarette.
/ sigh

Wow. That's a good one. Upding.

132 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:47:43am

This is really shallow on my part, but his voice drives me nuts. I realize I should listen to what he says, not his phrasing and pitch, but...

fingernails on chalkboard...

133 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:47:56am

re: #122 turn

LOL, that's funny! Was is OR?

I think so...

134 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:48:04am

Would he dare give George W. Bush credit for trying to bring a level of freedom to the Middle East cesspool and maybe that had something to do with this?

Nah, didn't think so... history started on 1/20/2009 at Noon.

135 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:48:08am

Is the Fd getting too powerful?

We are not so much expanding its power as focusing it...

136 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:48:17am

re: #132 EmmmieG

This is really shallow on my part, but his voice drives me nuts. I realize I should listen to what he says, not his phrasing and pitch, but...

fingernails on chalkboard...

Uh uh and uh uh.

137 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:48:26am

The Iranian Protesters are in Obama's way.

They are impeding his solution to the middle east, which includes coddling oppressors in exchange for "stability".

Same policy that brought us 9/11.

Hope! Change!

138 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:48:34am

re: #119 MrSilverDragon

Sooooooo true.

139 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:48:50am

Major?

140 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:48:52am

OMG==FOX!

141 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:48:52am

Hope AFN carries Krauthammer...

142 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:48:53am

re: #90 katemaclaren

Debate? --possibly like one with Don Corleone.

Don Corleone is an angel compared to the mullahs

143 Hhar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:48:59am

re: #5 saberry0530

The only words that I would like to hear from HIm is "Effective immediately, I resign from the office of President of the United States"

HEH, a guy can dream!


Hope! Change!

144 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:02am

re: #97 Sharmuta

The benefits of no tv....

Yeah, I'm at work with no tv and we're not allowed to access any kind of video feeds that I'm aware of. No speakers on my pc either.

145 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:05am

Ouch!

146 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:18am

OOOOOh...a tough question.

147 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:19am

re: #121 Son of the Black Dog

When the only tool you have is a speech, every problem looks like a debate.

Wow, that's heavy and fits O to a T

148 badger1970  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:19am

bo's moral equivalency is something to behold / *shivers in an non-ac 100 degree room*

149 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:24am

re: #134 tfc3rid

Would he dare give George W. Bush credit for trying to bring a level of freedom to the Middle East cesspool and maybe that had something to do with this?

Nah, didn't think so... history started on 1/20/2009 at Noon.

I was wandering through my local Target the other day, looking at movies while shopping for the Mrs. Fish. I actually saw a full-blown DVD of "A Historic Moment: The Inauguration of Barack Obama." I kid you not. I almost puked right there in the aisle.

150 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:31am

As I've said.

151 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:40am

re: #142 _RememberTonyC

Don Corleone is an angel compared to the mullahs

True--at least he makes you an offer.

152 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:45am

"You said you were appalled. What took so long?"

Thin Skin in 3,2,1...

153 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:54am

Major Garrett .... challenges Obama .... and Obama gets very defensive ...

154 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:49:56am

re: #149 thedopefishlives

I was wandering through my local Target the other day, looking at movies while shopping for the Mrs. Fish. I actually saw a full-blown DVD of "A Historic Moment: The Inauguration of Barack Obama." I kid you not. I almost puked right there in the aisle.

Clean up in aisle...

155 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:13am

re: #101 Cannadian Club Akbar

Q: Mr. President, used "Neda" in a sentence.
O: I neda cigarette.

Is that what Chris Matthews says after he "watches" an Obama speech?

156 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:19am

We're gonna be consistent in flapping our gums.

157 ngroup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:29am

Major: What took you so long?

Way to go!

(Lies and equivocation follow...)

158 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:32am

When did he ever say any of the shit that is coming out his mouth right now?

159 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:35am

re: #152 haakondahl

"You said you were appalled. What took so long?"

Thin Skin in 3,2,1...

You can HEAR and FEEL the anger in his voice. Flashing black eyes...sexy to Huffpo guy.

160 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:38am

re: #137 karmic_inquisitor

The Iranian Protesters are in Obama's way.

They are impeding his solution to the middle east, which includes coddling oppressors in exchange for "stability".

Same policy that brought us 9/11.

Hope! Change!

It's now apparent that he's willing to cut a deal with whomever/whatever it takes to get what he wants.

He . has . no . conscience.

161 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:41am

re: #136 kansas

Uh uh and uh uh.

And I, I, I, I, and I, I, I. My, we, us exponentially.

162 debutaunt  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:44am

re: #89 MandyManners

"There *is* significant questions".

President eloquent?

163 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:46am

re: #153 _RememberTonyC

Major Garrett .... challenges Obama .... and Obama gets very defensive ...

And replies with a rambling answer that goes no where.

164 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:51am

Freedom of Assembly and Freedom of Speech "Universal" values.

165 ointmentfly  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:50:52am

He is firing laser beams into Major Garrett's throat right now! Man he loves FOX.

166 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:51:08am

re: #149 thedopefishlives

I was wandering through my local Target the other day, looking at movies while shopping for the Mrs. Fish. I actually saw a full-blown DVD of "A Historic Moment: The Inauguration of Barack Obama." I kid you not. I almost puked right there in the aisle.

Was that the one with the DVD and commemorative hardcover book, too? I saw one just like it!

167 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:51:20am

re: #108 MandyManners

FCBBHO is not worthy of licking Neda's tennis shoes.

No he is not but he is doing an extraordinary job of licking the Supreme Fubar's & Ahmadi's gonads.

168 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:51:21am

re: #153 _RememberTonyC

Major Garrett .... challenges Obama .... and Obama gets very defensive ...

If he were a cat, his back would be two feet higher than his head and tail.

169 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:51:22am

In other words Iran gets red carpet to the 4th party.

170 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:51:25am

re: #155 Mad Al-Jaffee

Is that what Chris Matthews says after he "watches" an Obama speech?

Very funny! It's the petite morte.

171 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:51:31am

The Iranians have choices to make? How fast to bleed to death?

172 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:51:33am

re: #130 midwestgak

121. right on. This guy is running this contry as if he were in some polictical debate.

173 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:51:47am

Props to the Pres. where due. Taking many questions.

174 Kragar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:51:51am

re: #168 MandyManners

If he were a cat, his back would be two feet higher than his head and tail.

In a related story, Gibbs has soiled himself.

175 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:51:51am

re: #151 katemaclaren

True--at least he makes you an offer.

i crossed a lawyer with a godfather. he made me an offer I couldn't understand.

176 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:52:08am

re: #168 MandyManners

If he were a cat, his back would be two feet higher than his head and tail.

hahahahaha! and the whiskers a'tremble.

177 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:52:08am

Health care reform? Get off that. You can't fix shit, dumbo.

178 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:52:23am

re: #175 SteveC

i crossed a lawyer with a godfather. he made me an offer I couldn't understand.

You're killing me! hahaha.

179 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:52:25am

re: #172 turn

121. right on. This guy is running this contry as if he were in some polictical debate.

Thank heavens not a vigorous debate.

180 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:52:37am
181 badger1970  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:52:38am

re: #137 karmic_inquisitor

It's his ego getting in the way, not a bunch of shot-up, beaten up protesters. Remember Iran is a peaceful country that bo can talk into disarming. /

182 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:52:38am

re: #165 ointmentfly

He is firing laser beams into Major Garrett's throat right now! Man he loves FOX.

Aim for the Telepromter!

183 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:52:46am

re: #173 haakondahl

Props to the Pres. where due. Taking many questions.

Answers are the same.

184 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:52:47am

Morning all!

Let's see, what should I do? Listen to another Obama press conference or have an unnecessary spinal tap?

Hmm, which would hurt more?

Ah, decisions, decisions!

185 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:53:03am

Health care--he SMOKES!

186 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:53:09am

He gets animated when talking about his plans to fuck us over with socialized health care but, when answering Major Garrett's question about Iran, he withdrew.

187 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:53:23am

re: #184 subsailor68

Morning all!

Let's see, what should I do? Listen to another Obama press conference or have an unnecessary spinal tap?

Hmm, which would hurt more?

Ah, decisions, decisions!

Go for something in between. Try an enema.

188 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:53:26am

re: #179 haakondahl

Thank heavens not a vigorous debate.

Indeed, apparently by his definition a vigorous debate requires the use of firearms and light artillery.

189 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:53:28am

re: #163 Walter L. Newton

And replies with a rambling answer that goes no where.


Obama needs to be challenged like this much more in the future. I wish someone would have the balls to ask him this:

"Mr President, you said it was wrong to interfere in the internal affairs of iran, so why is it OK to interfere in the internal affairs of Israel?"

190 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:53:28am

re: #152 haakondahl

"You said you were appalled. What took so long?"

Thin Skin in 3,2,1...

"Track what I've said"

"I'll have some frozen custard, no nuts"

//

A released statement is what he "said".
Lame.

191 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:53:32am
192 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:53:43am

re: #184 subsailor68

Morning all!

Let's see, what should I do? Listen to another Obama press conference or have an unnecessary spinal tap?

Hmm, which would hurt more?

Ah, decisions, decisions!

Drink, brother/sister drink.

193 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:53:54am

He's in his "Community Organizer" mode now....snake oil

194 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:53:55am

re: #163 Walter L. Newton

And replies with a rambling answer that goes no where.

upding. Rambling is the perfect word to describe his responses. No where is the place he goes.

195 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:54:10am

paid for? With what?

196 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:54:19am

re: #184 subsailor68

Morning all!

Let's see, what should I do? Listen to another Obama press conference or have an unnecessary spinal tap?

Hmm, which would hurt more?

Ah, decisions, decisions!

Spinal Tap! At least you can turn that all the way to 11!

197 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:54:22am

re: #188 CIA Reject

Indeed, apparently by his definition a vigorous debate requires the use of firearms and light artillery.

I counter your thesis with a Molotov riposte!

198 Kragar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:54:33am

re: #193 katemaclaren

He's in his "Community Organizer" mode now....snake oil

ACCURSED MOUNTEBANK!

/haven't gotten to use that one in a while

199 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:54:42am

Reallocating? Soak the middle class and whatever is left of the community that is supposedly rich? They're outta here.

200 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:54:46am

re: #184 subsailor68

Morning all!

Let's see, what should I do? Listen to another Obama press conference or have an unnecessary spinal tap?

Hmm, which would hurt more?

Ah, decisions, decisions!

I'm not listening, because my head would explode.

201 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:54:50am

re: #189 _RememberTonyC

Obama needs to be challenged like this much more in the future. I wish someone would have the balls to ask him this:

"Mr President, you said it was wrong to interfere in the internal affairs of iran, so why is it OK to interfere in the internal affairs of Israel?"

then follow with.."no Mr President , that was not the question...let me ask again"

202 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:54:51am

re: #187 kansas

Go for something in between. Try an enema.

LOL! Terrific suggestion!

(Now, where'd I put that Tobasco sauce?)

;-)

203 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:54:51am

What load of absolute shit.

204 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:55:09am
205 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:55:11am

re: #186 MandyManners

He gets animated when talking about his plans to fuck us over with socialized health care but, when answering Major Garrett's question about Iran, he withdrew.

His answer should have been... "Major, considering my statements in regards to the Iranian election in the last week, there is nothing I could say that would be helpful to the people of Iran... they are on their own."

206 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:55:21am

re: #197 haakondahl

I counter your thesis with a Molotov riposte!

Hmm- that requires me to mull over a nuclear response...

207 ointmentfly  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:55:28am

re: #186 MandyManners

He gets animated when talking about his plans to fuck us over with socialized health care but, when answering Major Garrett's question about Iran, he withdrew.

You'd be animated if you were getting ready to spend a trillion dollars harvested from a tree in the backyard too...

208 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:55:32am

re: #198 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

ACCURSED MOUNTEBANK!

/haven't gotten to use that one in a while

Oh! I love you! Have NEVER heard that word used except in 19th Century Lit books! Do it again!

209 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:55:34am

re: #189 _RememberTonyC

"Mr President, you said it was wrong to interfere in the internal affairs of iran, so why is it OK to interfere in the internal affairs of Israel?"

Not pre-approved question by the TOTUS

210 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:55:38am

re: #149 thedopefishlives

I was wandering through my local Target the other day, looking at movies while shopping for the Mrs. Fish. I actually saw a full-blown DVD of "A Historic Moment: The Inauguration of Barack Obama." I kid you not. I almost puked right there in the aisle.

I hope you re-shelved that with the horror flicks.

211 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:56:01am

re: #184 subsailor68

Morning all!

Let's see, what should I do? Listen to another Obama press conference or have an unnecessary spinal tap?

Hmm, which would hurt more?

Ah, decisions, decisions!

Go with the spinal tap, at least you'll learn something unlike listening to this guy ramble on. Actually I'm not listening but I can only imagine the umms and ahs.

212 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:56:02am

Sob story.

213 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:56:07am

re: #210 Son of the Black Dog

I hope you re-shelved that with the horror flicks.

Ironically enough, it was in the comedy section.

214 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:56:09am

Ask me why I am moving back to the USA? Oh yeah, I remember now.

WE ARE STILL THE BEST AND STRONGEST COUNTRY I THE WORLD.

215 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:56:10am

re: #203 kansas

What load of absolute shit.

You have just confirmed Kansas' idea.

"This town needs an enema!"

216 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:56:19am

re: #205 Walter L. Newton

His answer should have been... "Major, considering my statements in regards to the Iranian election in the last week, there is nothing I could say that would be helpful to the people of Iran... they are on their own."

Well, he basically said that.

217 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:56:37am

re: #196 SteveC

Spinal Tap! At least you can turn that all the way to 11!

Hello Cleveland!

218 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:56:48am

re: #216 haakondahl

Well, he basically said that.

Heh, you noticed.

219 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:56:48am

He's on a roll now--he's going to take up all the time with the health care issue--and probably planted the question with the reporter to do it.

Tool...notice how much he uses that word? I wonder what's on his mind. Paging Michelle.

220 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:56:53am

re: #132 EmmmieG

This is really shallow on my part, but his voice drives me nuts. I realize I should listen to what he says, not his phrasing and pitch, but...

fingernails on chalkboard...

I can't bear to hear him speak, or even to look at him. Every word and gesture is calculated to obfuscate.

221 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:57:16am

re: #202 subsailor68

LOL! Terrific suggestion!

(Now, where'd I put that Tobasco sauce?)

;-)

re: #203 kansas

What load of absolute shit.

Was that sequence of posts a coincidence? I think not! :-)

222 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:57:31am

re: #213 thedopefishlives

Ironically enough, it was in the comedy section.

We're STILL not laughing!

223 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:57:54am

Foundering now.

224 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:57:54am

Mr. President, why would my husband's company provide health care if they are also being taxed to provide public health care?

225 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:57:54am

Can't take anymore of this drip, drip, drip.

Oh, getting a little testy.

226 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:57:55am

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY MORE!

227 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:58:33am

Poltergeist is on AMC.

228 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:58:33am

this health care answer is disingenuous in the extreme. you can keep your own plan if you like it. except if my private insurer is competing against the subsidized plan from the govt, the competition will not be fair.

229 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:58:40am

re: #226 MandyManners

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANY MORE!

See my 225. GMTA

230 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:58:41am

If they pass a health care plan we are really screwed. He doesn't have a clue, does he?

231 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:58:47am

Deeply disingenuous to say that the Public Option will not t--

YES! Somebody asked the Key Question--

Won't you drive them out of business>

He actually stepped from foot to foot and wagged his finger and said, "wait, wait, wait!"

232 badger1970  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:58:48am

re: #149 thedopefishlives

I just put a different dvd in front of it, usually horror. That was two weeks ago, my local Wal-mart still hasn't caught it.

233 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:59:04am

re: #227 MandyManners

Poltergeist is on AMC.

Obama's press conference is on AMC?

234 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:59:12am

re: #227 MandyManners

Poltergeist is on AMC.

And a noisy ghost is having a news conference. How can you tell the difference?

235 JustABill  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:59:14am

Someone needs to ask Obama about the vigorous abortion debate going on in that church in Wichita, Kan

236 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:59:20am

The Beverly Hillibillies is on TVLAND.

237 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:59:22am

Timid and Weak Heh.

238 jorline  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:59:39am

re: #225 midwestgak

Can't take anymore of this drip, drip, drip.

Oh, getting a little testy.

Morning {gak}

I was thinking the same thing...testy.

239 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:59:40am

re: #220 doppelganglander

I can't bear to hear him speak, or even to look at him. Every word and gesture is calculated to obfuscate.

"All the world's a stage" --he's acting--as fast as he can--because he's out in front of the curtain right now. He's electioneering--comes naturally to charlatans--or or mountebanks!

240 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:59:45am

My local station just cut away from the O, is it over?

241 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:59:48am

It must be difficult writing something like this with your head up your ass, but kudos to the NYT reporter for pulling it off:

Mr. Obama has very much upped the ante in his rhetoric on Iran. These are much sharper and to-the-point comments then anything than the more measured tones he struck last week on Iran.

242 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 9:59:56am

arrogant bastard

243 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:00am

...did you see that face with the "timid" question? Oooooh I'm scared.

244 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:03am

re: #236 MandyManners

The Beverly Hillibillies is on TVLAND.

Ooh, I do love those televised White House tours!

245 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:09am

The truth?

"I'm not as tough as John McCain's toenails."

246 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:13am

Mr. Tautology does it again -

1) Health care is too expensive
2) Those who say we should accept the status quo are wrong (a strawman - who is saying that? Ever heard of an MSA?)

Therefore -

You must accept bold and radical change to health care.

Morons fall for this. What are the factors making Health Care too expensive? What can be done to reduce those costs? What of those costs are endemic to the industry (health care will always be labor intensive and the skill level required increases as therapies become more advanced, while the other areas of the economy benefit from automation, thus making health care more and more expensive relative to all other things).

247 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:18am

but I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

248 badger1970  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:18am

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

"They're here" isn't quite the same as "He's here" but the cheesy effects are the same.

249 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:21am

re: #227 MandyManners

Poltergeist is on AMC.

*rolls eyes* So even the movie channels are carrying this wreck?

250 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:21am

re: #231 haakondahl

No way. way?

251 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:24am

They can't compete against a public plan because public funded insurance has a seemingly bottomless treasury and can undersell private carriers. They'll run the private companies out of business because of cost, but still won't be able to run the business.

252 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:30am

FCBBHO would confiscate Jed's oil and keep him in that shack in the mountains.

253 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:32am

re: #213 thedopefishlives

Ironically enough, it was in the comedy section.

Obviously, someone got there ahead of you.

254 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:33am

Power Broker. Where's my cut.

255 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:34am

re: #247 katemaclaren

but I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

*dramatic pause*

256 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:41am

HUUUUUUBRRRRIIIIS.

257 anubis_soundwave  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:00:50am

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

And a noisy ghost is having a news conference. How can you tell the difference?

The movie on AMC is entertaining, and it only lasts 2 hours.

Is it 2012 yet?

258 jorline  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:01:03am

re: #240 kansas

My local station just cut away from the O, is it over?

I've heard nothing but static for months now.

259 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:01:09am

So if you are going to be misrepresented in Iranian media, why not just meddle?

260 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:01:12am

What a FUCKING NEWBIE. Only I am the President of the US. I KNOW WHAT IS BEST.

261 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:01:24am

Math for dummies time.

Health care to be paid for via tobacco taxes.

Bear with me.

The higher the taxes are, the fewer people seek out tobacco, which means you need to raise taxes more to cover the revenue previously sought.

It begins a cycle of tax hikes, which further drives down the number of people buying the tobacco.

It's what happened with SCHIP, and the revenues that fall short have to be made up elsewhere.

Making it more difficult still to buy tobacco and sell it legally is all well and good, but tying health care to tobacco revenues is a bad idea because at some point all those shortfalls have to be made up elsewhere in the form of still more taxes.

Hiking taxes into the teeth of a recession is a spectacularly bad idea, and yet it's the only one Democrats have. Cutting costs doesn't even enter their rationale.

262 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:01:45am

DID YOU HEAR THAT? THE CIA IS BEHIND THIS? He must have slipped that in...and another I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!

interrupts...pissed off POTUS. I deplored the violence. I wonder if that translates into Farsi?

263 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:01:51am

Obama is against violence.

Wow. A beam of light shines on us all.

264 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:01:56am

re: #260 Erik The Red

What a FUCKING NEWBIE. Only I am the President of the US. I KNOW WHAT IS BEST.

I am the GREAT OZ.

265 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:04am

re: #241 Creeping Eruption

Mr. Obama has very much upped the ante in his rhetoric on Iran. These are much sharper and to-the-point comments then anything than the more measured tones he struck last week on Iran.

Upped the ante? What does that even mean? Gawd.

266 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:05am

I'm president of the United States, nananana.

267 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:08am

The top of the hour news (radio) pulled a cut from Obama's Iranian situation remark (from the news conference) and called his comment "outrage."

Tool.

268 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:16am

FCBBHO would confiscate Granny's tonic.

269 n2stox  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:16am

re: #63 MandyManners

He just called the protests and deaths an "extraordinary debate taking place". What a fucking ignorant idiot.

Updinged so hard, I may need a new mouse.

270 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:18am

re: #227 MandyManners

Poltergeist is on AMC.

It's on all the major networks too. Oh, sorry, thought you were talking the O speech.

"I am the president of the United States. . . " Anyone keeping track of how many times he has shoved that in our face? He just said it again within one minute!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Running away into the distant horizon.

271 Kragar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:22am

re: #247 katemaclaren

but I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

"We won. It's our time. It's supposed to be our time!"

272 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:27am
273 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:39am

re: #236 MandyManners

The Beverly Hillibillies is on TVLAND.

Open Thread, eh?

274 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:41am

A young woman gets shot on the street.

A nameless young woman

275 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:44am

re: #272 buzzsawmonkey

No, he's a lightweight. Only half an Oz.

Pay no attention to the flapping lips behind the curtain.

276 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:55am

re: #265 kansas

Mr. Obama has very much upped the ante in his rhetoric on Iran. These are much sharper and to-the-point comments then anything than the more measured tones he struck last week on Iran.

Upped the ante? What does that even mean? Gawd.

Beats me. Direct ass-to-typing finger-transmission.

277 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:02:55am

Oh Oh Oh....Chuck Todd...doesn't seem to be soft-pedaling...Oh CHUCK.

Won't answer the question ....

278 JustABill  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:03:02am

re: #228 _RememberTonyC

this health care answer is disingenuous in the extreme. you can keep your own plan if you like it. except if my private insurer is competing against the subsidized plan from the govt, the competition will not be fair.

Exactly. What the Republicans in congress need to do is offer an amendment to whatever health care legislation comes along stating that any govt program must be exclusively funded by premiums, Not tax dollars and not additional debt. If they want Govt/Private competition, make sure its fair...

No chance in hell of it passing, but it needs to be brought up loudly and repeatedly...

279 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:03:11am

OH TEEESTY.

280 badger1970  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:03:18am

re: #261 lawhawk

Yes, unfortunately our esteemed legislature and potus fell asleep in their high school economics class.

281 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:03:23am

Nervous laughter.

282 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:03:28am
283 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:03:36am

Go Tapper. Don't back down.

284 Kragar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:03:39am

If you listen carefully, you can almost hear him mutter "Bloody peasants."

285 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:03:47am

re: #238 jorline

Morning {gak}

I was thinking the same thing...testy.

{jorline}. Afternoon here.

286 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:03:50am

re: #275 thedopefishlives

Pay no attention to the flapping lips behind the curtain.

"You have let the Party become your mother, your nursemaid, your priest and your judge. You have let the Party hollow you out, fill you with endless contradictions and then erase you when you have outlived your purpose. And when it is all over not one single person will even have a memory of you. You will become a unperson."

287 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:03:54am

re: #246 karmic_inquisitor

Thank you for your spot-on analysis of his technique. I see the same thing with the immigration debate -- it's either deport them all (no one is suggesting that) or give them all amnesty. I'm sick of slick liars presenting false choices to people too dumb to realize they're being played.

288 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:04:10am

Granny would be taxed to death for smoking crawdads.

289 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:04:10am

re: #261 lawhawk

Plus people will just start growing it, what are they going to do outlaw that too?

290 JohnnyReb  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:04:11am

Lets face it, no matter how much Obama pumps up his health care plan and how much friggin time the MSM gives him for free, it is not going to happen. Congress and more importantly the people have seen the price tag on this mess, and it is frightening. With one notable exception, all of the polls say we do not want this. If he thinks he can ram this through congress, he should think again. This will make all the phone calls and emails to our Reps during the amnesty crap look tiny.

He is starting to realize that people in the US are getting pissed at him and his spending so he is going to do a full court press to attempt to shove this down our throats. Next they will bring out the racist guilt angle.

291 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:04:13am
292 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:04:17am

"We don't know this is going to play out" In other words lets see who wins so I can be on the winning side.

GOD HELP IRAN AND THE REST OF THE WORLD

293 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:04:24am

Dow moved up a bit, he must be done?

294 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:04:40am

False assumption -

Not for profit will yield a lower cost than for profit will.


Where has that worked out in the long run? Anywhere? Where has socialism thrived over market systems.

Journalists are idiots.

295 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:04:48am

re: #267 Walter L. Newton

The top of the hour news (radio) pulled a cut from Obama's Iranian situation remark (from the news conference) and called his comment "outrage."

Tool.

Hey, if the media calls him outraged over the situation in Iran, I'll take it - even if it is a misrepresentation.

Whatever good he said in his prepared comments was undone the moment he called the government's crackdown on protesters an "extraordinary debate". I doubt Neda had a debating retort in mind when the Basij's bullet struck her in the chest and she exsanguinated in the arms of friends and strangers who offered her comfort in her last living moments.

296 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:04:54am

re: #260 Erik The Red

What a FUCKING NEWBIE. Only I am the President of the US. I KNOW WHAT IS BEST.

That's a very common theme among Maxists- that "True Communism" hasn't yet been accomplished because those who have attempted (and failed) in the past are not as smart as I AM! It'll work this time because I'M DOING IT!

Good luck with that...

297 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:04:58am

Consequences?

We can't take sides until we know which side wins.

AKA: Nope.

/seems to me he's great at talking a lot without saying a thing.

298 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:05:04am

re: #293 kansas

Dow moved up a bit, he must be done?

Good bond auction.

More Kool Aide for the economy.

299 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:05:14am

ACORN would occupy the Clampett's mansion.

300 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:05:43am

re: #299 MandyManners

ACORN would occupy the Clampett's mansion.

*sigh*

301 jorline  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:05:49am

What ever happened to the test pattern that use to come on the TV at the end of the broadcasting day back in the 60's? The one with the Indian and the hum.

Here it is.

302 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:05:50am

re: #270 midwestgak

It's on all the major networks too. Oh, sorry, thought you were talking the O speech.

"I am the president of the United States. . . " Anyone keeping track of how many times he has shoved that in our face? He just said it again within one minute!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Running away into the distant horizon.

Remember when poor Bush said that he had earned capital from the election? This is more than the equivalent...

303 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:06:17am

"Nobody was paying attention to what was being peddled to consumers"

Uh, don't the consumers keep tabs on that? CONSUMER REPORTS is the most feared regulatory body for retail.

304 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:06:22am

re: #289 turn

Free range tobacco... heh. I'm sure some people will pay a premium for that...

Then again, with this Administration hoping to open the doors to Cuba, the primary export will be what? Sugar and tobacco and both are on the endangered species list due to taxation by the nanny staters.

305 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:06:34am

re: #282 buzzsawmonkey

But if you tax tobacco so high that nobody smokes it, people won't need healthcare, and so the costs will go down.

/moonbat off

The ugly truth is that smokers consume fewer Federal health care dollars than non-smokers. They don't live as long, and tend to die from things that make you die quick.

306 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:06:53am

"Different rules for all insurance companies"

Translation -

Nationalization.

307 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:07:00am

It is my game and I will make up the rules.

308 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:07:01am

re: #303 haakondahl

"Nobody was paying attention to what was being peddled to consumers"

Uh, don't the consumers keep tabs on that? CONSUMER REPORTS is the most feared regulatory body for retail.

$30 a year for an online subscription, and it saves us hundreds of dollars every year.

309 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:07:27am

re: #305 Son of the Black Dog

The ugly truth is that smokers consume fewer Federal health care dollars than non-smokers. They don't live as long, and tend to die from things that make you die quick.

Trust me, that's not always the case. Dying from COPD can take a long, long time.

310 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:07:29am

re: #295 lawhawk

Hey, if the media calls him outraged over the situation in Iran, I'll take it - even if it is a misrepresentation.

Whatever good he said in his prepared comments was undone the moment he called the government's crackdown on protesters an "extraordinary debate". I doubt Neda had a debating retort in mind when the Basij's bullet struck her in the chest and she exsanguinated in the arms of friends and strangers who offered her comfort in her last living moments.

Really,

Hmmm, so, if the media has to prop him up, just so their headlines attract attention, that's ok with you?

The news person didn't broadcast the "extraordinary debate" part of his statements. The whole little segment on the radio made it sound like Obama was outraged, and nothing less.

If that works for you, well...

311 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:07:35am

re: #301 jorline

What ever happened to the test pattern that use to come on the TV at the end of the broadcasting day back in the 60's? The one with the Indian and the hum.

Here it is.

I don't think that's politically correct anymore.

312 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:07:45am

re: #304 lawhawk

I grew it one time, amazing plant. The seeds are about the size of flyshit and the plant grows HUGE! Screwed up the curing, couldn't even smoke the stuff.

313 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:08:05am

How can he demonize Insurance companies yet say that he won't take away the choice to use them, when those companies will compete with his Public Option.

NICE QUESTION! Who is that guy, Mr. "two-part question"?

314 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:08:05am

For those of us late to the thread here's Obama's comments on Iran....

315 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:08:09am

From Drudge...POLITICO: OBAMA-HUFFPO CONSPIRE ON STAGED 'IRAN' QUESTION...

316 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:08:13am

I think Jake Tapper is doing a good job trying to trip him up.

317 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:08:17am

Someone sounds skeptical of claims by free marketeers.

unable to articulate what the free market has to offer. Stumbles on it.

Out of his field of vision.

318 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:08:28am

If we send Mandy to a White House presser, think 0bama'd ask here if she had anything to say?

319 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:08:40am
320 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:08:41am

re: #305 Son of the Black Dog

The ugly truth is that smokers consume fewer Federal health care dollars than non-smokers. They don't live as long, and tend to die from things that make you die quick.

Wow. I didn't think of that. I've never smoked, thank the fates.

321 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:08:57am

re: #246 karmic_inquisitor

What are the factors making Health Care too expensive? What can be done to reduce those costs?

1) Malpractice awards are through the roof, making malpractice insurance expensive. These costs are passed on to the consumer. (Sick folks - us)

2) In order to prevent being hit with a malpractice suit, many doctors practice defensive medicine - ordering X-rays AND an MRI AND a boane scan to diagnose a broken ankle.

True reform of the Malpractice insurance/lawsuit system will bring down the cost of insurance and end the practice of ordering three tests when one will do. Healthcare costs should go down.

322 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:09:10am

Uh oh. Smoker questions....

323 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:09:20am

WILL HE ANSWER THESE?

324 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:09:21am
325 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:09:25am

No.

326 kansas  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:09:26am

The ugly truth is that smokers consume fewer Federal health care dollars than non-smokers. They don't live as long, and tend to die from things that make you die quick.

Free ciggies for seniors.

327 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:09:29am

I don't actually care if this man smokes or not.

328 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:09:37am

re: #303 haakondahl

"Nobody was paying attention to what was being peddled to consumers"

Uh, don't the consumers keep tabs on that? CONSUMER REPORTS is the most feared regulatory body for retail.

And the world has known that tobacco and smoking is bad for you since the warnings were first put on cigarette cartons decades ago. The new bill requires half the box to be devoted to warnings.

As if yelling that smoking can kill you on the box will do any more good?

Consumer Reports is a great resource and their reliability ratings are top notch. They fall short on electronics and gizmos because their testing for reliability often puts the items tested out of the marketplace for obsolescence. It works for cars and big ticket items, and some of their tips to save money are top notch.

329 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:09:42am

re: #304 lawhawk

Free range tobacco... heh. I'm sure some people will pay a premium for that...

Then again, with this Administration hoping to open the doors to Cuba, the primary export will be what? Sugar and tobacco and both are on the endangered species list due to taxation by the nanny staters.


I have 5 acres to grow tobakkie and inside the house, an inner " cool dark place" to grow beer.

330 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:09:44am

re: #289 turn

Nope, but they will legislate it nine ways to sunday will permits, liscencing, and fees. Making it even more expensive to home grow.

331 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:09:53am
332 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:10:00am

re: #314 Killgore Trout

For those of us late to the thread here's Obama's comments on Iran....

As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people have a universal right to assembly and free speech. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect those rights, and heed the will of its own people. It must govern through consent, not coercion. That is what Iran's own people are calling for, and the Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government.

333 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:10:02am

re: #315 tfc3rid

Drudge is an idiot.

334 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:10:03am

She's TRYING to tell him she's serious. FORMER smoker!? Fallen off the wagon? If you smoke, you smoke.

335 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:10:09am

Smoking question from Margaret who smokes, and told us that.

At least the Pres. whacked her for being stupid about it.

336 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:10:11am

Ooh. I absolutely believe he doesn't smoke in front of Michelle.

337 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:10:16am

Addicts are always addicts.

338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:10:34am

re: #327 EmmmieG

I don't actually care if this man smokes or not.

I do. The last thing that someone with an important new job needs to do is quit smoking. We should ask him his favorite brand and have them shipped to him.

339 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:10:35am

re: #333 Killgore Trout

Drudge is an idiot.

Then what he says must be false. Always. Q.E.D.

340 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:10:37am

Did he say, those of us who go to AA?

341 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:10:47am

re: #332 karmic_inquisitor

I saw that. He's not claiming credit of the Iranian uprising.

342 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:11:04am

Let's see, Obama has his fingers in:

The banking industry.
The automobile industry.
The insurance industry.
The tobacco industry.
The soft drink industry.
The energy industry.
The heath care industry.
The education industry.

What's left?

"The President appeared before reporters today with band-aids around three of his fingers. 'It has become clear that there needs to be more federal regulation of the Swedish do-it-yourself furniture industry."

IKEA was unavailable for comment.

343 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:11:07am

re: #338 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I do. The last thing that someone with an important new job needs to do is quit smoking. We should ask him his favorite brand and have them shipped to him.

Boy , do I agree with that.

344 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:11:09am

re: #333 Killgore Trout

Drudge is an idiot.

Via Politico as well... Defensive? Slobbering love affair?

345 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:11:21am

re: #299 MandyManners

ACORN would occupy the Clampett's mansion.

They'll find me and Miss Ellie in the Cement Pond....

346 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:11:23am

re: #322 katemaclaren

Uh oh. Smoker questions....

"It's not about me. It's about future generations."

Bull. What's good for you doesn't apply to me is more like it.

Bring up alcoholics. Cheap shot. Deflection. Deflection. Deflection.

347 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:11:25am

Victim, struggle, mess up.

Just say that once in a while you have one, despite it being a very bad idea.

348 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:11:26am

... in other news ... Michelle is proud ...

... and an Iranian girl is dead

/but don't worry, Michelle's self-gratification hasn't been diminished

349 Baier  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:11:34am

re: #337 katemaclaren

Addicts are always addicts.

You're telling me. 4 years without a cigarette and I still want one almost daily.

350 FrogMarch  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:11:46am

re: #186 MandyManners

He gets animated when talking about his plans to fuck us over with socialized health care but, when answering Major Garrett's question about Iran, he withdrew.

Socialists have their priorities.

351 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:12:04am

re: #310 Walter L. Newton

What I mean by that is that the protesters in Iran may see those comments - distorted as they are - as being more supportive and provide encouragement to continue the good fight against the evil regime. Ahmadinejad already sees the US meddling regardless of what he says, but supportive words to the protesters are a step in the right direction.

352 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:12:39am

re: #333 Killgore Trout

Drudge is an idiot.

Well, Drudge didn't write the story, just linked to it. Is everyone that links to a story an idiot? It happens here all the time, doesn't it?

[Link: www.politico.com...]

353 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:12:52am

re: #315 tfc3rid

From Drudge...POLITICO: OBAMA-HUFFPO CONSPIRE ON STAGED 'IRAN' QUESTION...

Wow. I wonder how they know? Politico might be there...and they have these questions submitted ahead of time--plus they are crammed into the same room--easy to overhear.

354 badger1970  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:13:13am

re: #351 lawhawk

Tell that to the Kurds after Gulf War Part I.

355 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:13:14am

Oh.... did he mention that he was President? I read that somewhere...

356 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:13:51am

re: #329 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sounds like you are set with tax free vices. You can order the seeds over the internet, many different varieties available. The shit is hard to germinate, you have to really take care with that.

357 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:13:59am

re: #352 Walter L. Newton

Well, Drudge didn't write the story, just linked to it. Is everyone that links to a story an idiot? It happens here all the time, doesn't it?

[Link: www.politico.com...]

He may be many things--but Drudge is NOT an idiot.

358 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:14:11am

re: #355 SteveC

Oh.... did he mention that he was President? I read that somewhere...

When doesn't he?

359 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:14:17am

re: #314 Killgore Trout

For those of us late to the thread here's Obama's comments on Iran....

"... I think that when a young woman is shot on the street when she gets out of her car," that's a human rights violation.

IMHO, it's murder.

/but WTF do I know?!

360 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:14:22am

re: #344 tfc3rid

It's a non-story. The guy from huffpo has been doing better coverage than the MSM or any other blogger. It's not suspicious that Obama was aware of his coverage.

361 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:14:35am

re: #351 lawhawk

What I mean by that is that the protesters in Iran may see those comments - distorted as they are - as being more supportive and provide encouragement to continue the good fight against the evil regime. Ahmadinejad already sees the US meddling regardless of what he says, but supportive words to the protesters are a step in the right direction.

Okay, but I'm too black and white. I don't want to see the media spin and stretch the truth, period. For any purpose, or for any outcome.

362 CIA Reject  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:14:43am

re: #355 SteveC

Oh.... did he mention that he was President? I read that somewhere...

Yeah, it's right here in the WAPO along with something about a guy named Kerry who was in Viet Nam...

363 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:14:50am

From Politico:

In a clearly coordinated exchange, President Obama called on the Huffington Post's Nico Pitney near the start of his press conference and requested a question directly from Iran.

“Nico, I know you and all across the internet, we've been seeing a lot of reports coming out of Iran,” Obama said, addressing Pitney. “I know there may actually be questions from people in Iran who are communicating through the internet. Do you have a question?”

Pitney, as if ignoring what Obama had just said, said: “I wanted to use this opportunity to ask you a question directly from an Iranian.”

That sounds staged to me.

364 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:14:50am
365 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:14:53am

re: #352 Walter L. Newton

Well, Drudge didn't write the story, just linked to it. Is everyone that links to a story an idiot? It happens here all the time, doesn't it?

[Link: www.politico.com...]

In a clearly coordinated exchange, President Obama called on the Huffington Post's Nico Pitney near the start of his press conference and requested a question directly from Iran.
“Nico, I know you and all across the internet, we've been seeing a lot of reports coming out of Iran,” Obama said, addressing Pitney. “I know there may actually be questions from people in Iran who are communicating through the internet. Do you have a question?”

366 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:14:54am

re: #355 SteveC

Oh.... did he mention that he was President? I read that somewhere...

At this point, I consider him "resident" of the White House, and that's about it... and that brings me to my next comment, that I'd really like to tell Obama, "P off."

367 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:15:01am

re: #355 SteveC

Oh.... did he mention that he was President? I read that somewhere...

We need a counting device--like with Pelosi's eyeblinks. "I'm the POTUS" meter.

368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:15:02am

re: #345 SteveC

They'll find me and Miss Ellie in the Cement Pond....

Miss Ellie is from Dallas, silly goose. You're thinking "Ellie Mae".

369 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:15:18am

Changing the channel to live Rugby.

370 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:15:18am

re: #360 Killgore Trout

It's a non-story. The guy from huffpo has been doing better coverage than the MSM or any other blogger. It's not suspicious that Obama was aware of his coverage.

Ummm, they coordinated the question... That's a pretty big deal...

371 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:15:51am

Oh--oops--a second stimulus package--NOT YET!? Oh baby.

372 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:15:52am

re: #370 tfc3rid

It's nonsense but don't let me stop you guys from freaking out.

373 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:15:55am

re: #356 turn

Sounds like you are set with tax free vices. You can order the seeds over the internet, many different varieties available. The shit is hard to germinate, you have to really take care with that.

Hmmm, question. Now that the tobacco industry is under the FDA, with more regulation and oversight, might it not be illegal to grow tobacco without permission from that administration?

374 ointmentfly  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:15:58am

re: #261 lawhawk

Math for dummies time.

Health care to be paid for via tobacco taxes.

Bear with me.

The higher the taxes are, the fewer people seek out tobacco, which means you need to raise taxes more to cover the revenue previously sought.

It begins a cycle of tax hikes, which further drives down the number of people buying the tobacco.

It's what happened with SCHIP, and the revenues that fall short have to be made up elsewhere.

Making it more difficult still to buy tobacco and sell it legally is all well and good, but tying health care to tobacco revenues is a bad idea because at some point all those shortfalls have to be made up elsewhere in the form of still more taxes.

Hiking taxes into the teeth of a recession is a spectacularly bad idea, and yet it's the only one Democrats have. Cutting costs doesn't even enter their rationale.


The law of unintended consequences is such a small part of the calculus for a party judged almost solely on good intentions by our watchdogs in the MSM.

375 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:16:12am

re: #330 BlueCanuck

Nope, but they will legislate it nine ways to sunday will permits, liscencing, and fees. Making it even more expensive to home grow.

I doubt they will go to that extent, tobacco is legal to grow and would be too difficult and expensive to police. Hell look how much pot is grown here in CA. Hey, is it legal to grow pot up there?

376 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:16:20am

Our military will look like Washington's at Valley Forge next winter.

377 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:16:22am
378 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:16:31am

When I read these comments describing the address and the follow-up pundits it is very entertaining to pretend they are being spoken in a Howard Cosell voice.

Very entertaining.

379 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:16:35am

waiting for the "inherited" remark....

380 nom de boom  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:16:40am

The violence this President does to the English language is appalling. Everything is calculated to obscure or soft-pedal what he actually means. This is intolerable and--to use Barry's language--unsustainable in a representative government. He needs to be called on it at every press conference BY the press, although I'm fairly certain that won't happen. "No, Mr. President. Re-allocation is a euphemism for taxes, so why don't we stop talking about healthcare in isolation and start talking about it in the context of HOW YOU'RE GOING TO FRIGGING PAY FOR IT?!"

381 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:16:50am

"nobody knew how bad the economy was". Wrong. Half of us knew how bad the stimulus was.

382 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:16:50am

re: #370 tfc3rid

Ummm, they coordinated the question... That's a pretty big deal...

Oh really, no, you're just seething, now stop that...
////////////////////////

383 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:16:58am

re: #370 tfc3rid

Ummm, they coordinated the question... That's a pretty big deal...

The White House is using the press to get its agenda out there and the press, in this case HuffPo, is complicit in propaganda.

384 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:00am

re: #377 buzzsawmonkey

This one has natural scented oils for better stimulation.

LOL

385 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:07am

re: #321 SteveC

1) Malpractice awards are through the roof, making malpractice insurance expensive. These costs are passed on to the consumer. (Sick folks - us)

2) In order to prevent being hit with a malpractice suit, many doctors practice defensive medicine - ordering X-rays AND an MRI AND a boane scan to diagnose a broken ankle.

True reform of the Malpractice insurance/lawsuit system will bring down the cost of insurance and end the practice of ordering three tests when one will do. Healthcare costs should go down.

Another reason - developing a new pharmaceutical is EXPENSIVE, and most don't make it. We've been subsidizing the rest of the world's medications for years.

As for malpractice, it has gotten out of hand, but actual damages should be covered. Unfortunately, that one won't help obstetricians, as babies that would have died years ago, now can be kept alive and grow up- but need a lifetime of medical care. However, covering that from health insurance, would bring down the cost of malpractice insurance. (For example, let someone disabled stay on the parents' health insurance even over the age 25)
The cost still has to get covered somehow (otherwise, what do you do? Throw the person in a box?) but it gets spread out better.

386 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:13am

He admits he has no crystal ball!

387 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:16am

re: #368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Miss Ellie is from Dallas, silly goose. You're thinking "Ellie Mae".

*Forehead slap*

/Noooo, Miss Ellie.... stick with the one piece....

388 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:26am

...or was that ball(s)?

389 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:27am

re: #333 Killgore Trout

Drudge is an idiot.

Why do you say that KT?

390 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:32am

re: #382 Walter L. Newton

Oh really, no, you're just seething, now stop that...
////////////////////////

Yeah, I guess that's not shady or anything...

391 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:38am

re: #326 kansas

The ugly truth is that smokers consume fewer Federal health care dollars than non-smokers. They don't live as long, and tend to die from things that make you die quick.

Free ciggies for seniors.


Isn't that a plan in Denmark? (But not tobacco cigs) /

392 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:41am

re: #382 Walter L. Newton

Oh really, no, you're just seething, now stop that...
////////////////////////

And, freaking out!

393 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:52am

re: #372 Killgore Trout

It's nonsense but don't let me stop you guys from freaking out.

There you go again with your all inclusive "you guys." Why don't you stop speaking for all of us?

394 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:17:52am

From Obama's prepared remarks

As I said in Cairo [why insert that?] , suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away [really? is that the case in North Korea? how popular is the idea of forming political parties there? posting comments on the internet?]. The Iranian people have a universal right to assembly and free speech [what universal right is that? people are born with rights that governments cannot take away without due process. who is protecting iranians as they exercise this "universal right?"]. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community [who says it does seek that? not their president or their supreme leader. we have countless remarks over their nuclear non-compliance that indicate they don't care about respect in the international community], it must respect those rights [false proposition undermines assertion], and heed the will of its own people [false proposition undermines assertion]. It must govern through consent, not coercion [what government keeps order without coercion? what happens if I don't pay my taxes? or if I walk down the street naked?]. That is what Iran's own people are calling for, and the Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government [they may judge those actions, but why should the government give a shit?].

395 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:18:07am

But, but, but. Most sense he's made.

396 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:18:09am

re: #370 tfc3rid

Ummm, they coordinated the question... That's a pretty big deal...

Run the old pick and roll, just like Kobe and Shaq used to. Worked like a charm.

397 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:18:33am

Here it comes....waiting....
worst depression since....
waiting...waiting...

(aside: he noticed poll numbers going down...)

398 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:18:50am

re: #372 Killgore Trout

It's nonsense but don't let me stop you guys from freaking out.

Who's freaking out? Did you read the Politico link? Or are you okay with the "free and independent press" acting as a mouthpiece for the administration?


Reporters typically don’t coordinate their questions for the president before press conferences. It was departure from from White House protocol by calling on The Huffington Post second, in between the AP and Reuters.

CBS Radio's Mark Knoller, a veteran White House correspondent, said over Twitter it was "very unusual that Obama called on Huffington Post second, appearing to know the issue the reporter would ask about."

According to POLITICO's Carol Lee, The Huffington Post reporter was brought out of lower press by Deputy Press Secretary Josh Earnest and placed just inside the barricade for reporters a few minutes before the start of the press conference

.

399 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:18:52am

re: #396 SteveC

Run the old pick and roll, just like Kobe and Shaq used to. Worked like a charm.

Thought it was more like the ol' Statue of Liberty play...

Give Major Garrett big kudos for asking a tough Q.

400 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:19:08am

re: #393 Walter L. Newton

There you go again with your all inclusive "you guys." Why don't you stop speaking for all of us?

I don't expect an answer. But thanks for the up dings.

401 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:19:09am
402 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:19:19am

re: #391 DaddyG

Isn't that a plan in Denmark? (But not tobacco cigs) /

This must be why Italy and France have no health care pay problems--everyone smokes...a lot.

403 Baier  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:19:26am

This President really reminds me of James Taggart in Atlas Shrugged. The character claims to only do things for the greater good, and not because he wants to do it, but because the circumstances force him to. He can never be held responsible and takes no personal responsibility. It really is amazing.

404 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:19:36am

re: #389 turn

Why do you say that KT?


He's been pushing a lot of bogus stories lately. Last week he was implying that the White House vegetable garden was fake.

405 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:19:50am

re: #401 buzzsawmonkey

Crazy words, crazy tune
All that I ever hear him croon
Vo-do-do, Vo-do-do-de-o-do
Do-do-do
Sits around, all night long
Sings the same words to every song
Vo-do-do, Vo-do-do-de-o-do

Where does that come from?

406 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:19:53am

re: #261 lawhawk

Math for dummies time.

Health care to be paid for via tobacco taxes.

Bear with me.

The higher the taxes are, the fewer people seek out tobacco, which means you need to raise taxes more to cover the revenue previously sought.

It begins a cycle of tax hikes, which further drives down the number of people buying the tobacco.

It's what happened with SCHIP, and the revenues that fall short have to be made up elsewhere.

Making it more difficult still to buy tobacco and sell it legally is all well and good, but tying health care to tobacco revenues is a bad idea because at some point all those shortfalls have to be made up elsewhere in the form of still more taxes.

Hiking taxes into the teeth of a recession is a spectacularly bad idea, and yet it's the only one Democrats have. Cutting costs doesn't even enter their rationale.

That concept is so simple that a5 year old could understand it. Unfortunately, our Harvard educated elites have so much education that they've actually become stupid and no longer understand basic concepts.

407 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:20:09am

re: #387 SteveC

*Forehead slap*

/Noooo, Miss Ellie.... stick with the one piece....

HAHAHAHAHA!

408 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:20:11am

Fucksocks. AFN just switched to CNN. No Krauthammer for me.

409 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:20:18am

re: #402 katemaclaren

This must be why Italy and France have no health care pay problems--everyone smokes...a lot.

That and the lack of air conditioning in the summer. /too soon?

410 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:20:18am

re: #397 katemaclaren

Here it comes....waiting....
worst depression since....
waiting...waiting...

(aside: he noticed poll numbers going down...)

Potato famine, 1845.

My sons gonna freak.

411 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:20:25am

re: #349 Baier

Do what I did, start chewing. Actually Dianna warned me it's more dangerous than smoking so maybe I should go back to smoking and quit chewing. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

412 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:20:27am

Did he really just imply that clean energy programs would HELP the economy?

413 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:20:37am

Did FOX already cut away?

414 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:20:40am
415 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:20:46am

re: #333 Killgore Trout

Drudge is an idiot.

drudge doesn't write news stories...so what?...I surf there everyday

416 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:20:56am

re: #398 doppelganglander

Did you read the Politico link?


yes, they have no evidence. It was a normal question, no more unusual than any of the other questions despite their claim it was "clearly staged".

417 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:21:05am

"I don't feel satisfied with the progress we have made"

Nice rhetorical device - pat yourself on the back for making progress while brandishing false humility by demanding more from oneself.

Who agrees that we have made progress? His naked assertion of progress draws no critique whatsoever.

Press: clueless and blind.

418 avanti  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:21:28am

re: #383 doppelganglander

The White House is using the press to get its agenda out there and the press, in this case HuffPo, is complicit in propaganda.

Why would the POTUS want a tough question and provide a fairly lame response if he knew the content. It defies common sense that he knew the content of the question, perhaps that it was coming, but not what was asked.
I thought the Huffington question was far from a slow ball in the strike zone, and Obama certainly did not hit it out of the park.

419 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:21:36am

April...AA employment rate--20 percent
Why not target intervention now--stop the bloodletting in AA community--Latino?

He's going to be in trouble with this answer--for sure.

420 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:21:40am

"rising tide lifts all boats." Good answer.

421 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:21:45am

re: #415 albusteve

drudge doesn't write news stories...so what?...I surf there everyday

But, but... Drudge links to stories, that's like, well, seething or something... ///////////// :)

422 Baier  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:21:52am

re: #411 turn

Do what I did, start chewing. Actually Dianna warned me it's more dangerous than smoking so maybe I should go back to smoking and quit chewing. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

My dad chewed tobacco to try to quit smoking and told me chew it is much more addictive. I'm just never going to touch nicotine in any form for the rest of my life.

423 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:21:54am

re: #373 subsailor68

Hmmm, question. Now that the tobacco industry is under the FDA, with more regulation and oversight, might it not be illegal to grow tobacco without permission from that administration?

When I checked into it about a month ago, I could grow for personal consumption. I wouldn't be adding anything like nicotine so the FDA can bite me.

424 aggieann  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:22:01am

re: #247 katemaclaren

but I'M THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

I WON!

425 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:22:28am

re: #420 haakondahl

"rising tide lifts all boats." Good answer.

JFK thanks you for noticing!

426 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:22:44am

re: #415 albusteve

So do I.

427 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:23:09am

re: #421 Walter L. Newton

But, but... Drudge links to stories, that's like, well, seething or something... ///////////// :)

LOL

428 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:23:09am

re: #417 karmic_inquisitor

"I don't feel satisfied with the progress we have made"

Nice rhetorical device - pat yourself on the back for making progress while brandishing false humility by demanding more from oneself.

Who agrees that we have made progress? His naked assertion of progress draws no critique whatsoever.

Press: clueless and blind.

I'm not so sure that is purely rhetorical. The progress he desires is what scares me. Nationalized nation anyone? Who can we distribute wealth to next?

429 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:23:32am

re: #424 aggieann

I WON!

Okay...GAME ON.

430 Kragar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:23:35am

CA cuts tax exemptions for kids

To help balance its budget, California has reduced the state tax credit for dependents.

The change will increase a family's California taxes for 2009 by about $210 per dependent compared with 2008.

A family with one dependent that normally gets a state-tax refund will get back $210 less when they file their 2009 return next year. A family that normally owes money will have to pay $210 more. Multiply that by two or more dependents, and it really adds up.

Fuck you CA. I need to get out of this shit

431 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:23:40am

NEDA from Suzanne Malveaux; tossed as a softball.

432 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:23:42am

Second stimulus? 'Not yet"

433 aggieann  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:23:44am

re: #266 Pvt Bin Jammin

I'm president of the United States, nananana.

And the MSM WILL PERSUADE YOU that Michelle is hot!

434 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:23:56am

Fundamentally F-----G UNJUST?

435 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:24:28am

Urgent issue of unemployment is turned to a response pushing a multiyear training program for inter-city unemployables.

Take the crisis to forge the new socialism.

436 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:24:30am

re: #431 haakondahl

NEDA from Suzanne Malveaux; tossed as a softball.

Well at least she didn't blow him

437 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:24:46am

re: #423 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I checked into it about a month ago, I could grow for personal consumption. I wouldn't be adding anything like nicotine so the FDA can bite me.

Upding for that!

;-)

438 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:24:55am

Helen Thomas is still alive?

439 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:24:59am

Crikey. The mummy speaks.....Helen Thomas...let out of the sarcophagus...

440 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:25:00am

HT clawing her way out of her coffin. He's holding it shut, but can't hold on for long!

441 DisturbedEma  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:25:13am

re: #436 Nevergiveup

Well at least she didn't blow him


She had to wait for Chris Matthews to get done. . .

442 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:25:18am

re: #421 Walter L. Newton

But, but... Drudge links to stories, that's like, well, seething or something... ///////////// :)

I'm a bit late here but Drudge is just Druge....I have to think one would be a bit paranoid to think he's trying to influence anybody...if it's crap then so be it...and I'm getting a bit tired of this 'you guys' shit too

443 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:25:23am

"we are watching."

Radio Free Europe should have used that in the cold war. Would have ended in a week.

444 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:25:23am

re: #436 Nevergiveup

Well at least she didn't blow him

....bet she's willing!

445 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:25:26am

re: #375 turn

I doubt they will go to that extent, tobacco is legal to grow and would be too difficult and expensive to police. Hell look how much pot is grown here in CA. Hey, is it legal to grow pot up there?

Nope, still not legal here at all. Some areas it's a misdemeanor to possess, quite a few advocacy groups though.

446 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:25:31am

Obama voters calling John Gibson on Fox News Radio expressing buyers remorse...

Just a Persian man on who was crying that his people want freedom and this man who he thought would do everything is doing nothing...

447 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:25:49am

re: #438 midwestgak

Helen Thomas is still alive?

What's your definition of "Alive"?

448 ointmentfly  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:00am

re: #430 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

CA cuts tax exemptions for kids


Fuck you CA. I need to get out of this shit

Meanwhile.... Illegal aliens will continue to use the welfare system, ER healthcare and have as many kids as they want. Taxes? What taxes?

449 eschew_obfuscation  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:00am

re: #412 EmmmieG

Did he really just imply that clean energy programs would HELP the economy?

Interesting side note.... my daughter lives in Texas where they have a web site that allows consumers to chose an energy provider (electricity) from a large list of companies. Some provide solely wind power, some power from a mix of sources, some purely from coal. Without fail, the "green" sources are the most expensive.

450 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:01am

re: #430 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

CA cuts tax exemptions for kids


Fuck you CA. I need to get out of this shit

I thought everthing the Democrats did was for the chhhhiiiildren.
Hypocritical bastards.

451 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:01am

re: #439 katemaclaren

Crikey. The mummy speaks.....Helen Thomas...let out of the sarcophagus...

GMTA. See my #438

452 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:01am

re: #430 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

CA cuts tax exemptions for kids

Fuck you CA. I need to get out of this shit

Son of a friend of mine wanted to go to college in California. Has partial scholarship but needs financial aid. I told him to grab his stuff and go in the opposite direction - ANYWHERE but Cali!

Not looking so dumb now, am I, Phil?

453 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:02am

OMG she didn't get to ask a question...there will be hell to pay.

454 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:12am

Outrage!

455 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:37am

re: #446 tfc3rid

Obama voters calling John Gibson on Fox News Radio expressing buyers remorse...

Just a Persian man on who was crying that his people want freedom and this man who he thought would do everything is doing nothing...

That man is therefore a right wing nut job. Hasn't he read any of KTs posts?

456 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:38am

re: #446 tfc3rid

Gibby's my favorite. Christine and Angry Rich make the show perfect.

457 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:44am

re: #373 subsailor68

Hmmm, question. Now that the tobacco industry is under the FDA, with more regulation and oversight, might it not be illegal to grow tobacco without permission from that administration?

Don't know, let me check. Yes it appears to still be legal. Here is where I bought the seeds

[Link: www.seedman.com...]

458 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:26:52am

Helen Thomas looking to ask another anti-semetic question?

459 haakondahl  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:27:05am

re: #438 midwestgak

Helen Thomas is still alive?

re: #439 katemaclaren

Crikey. The mummy speaks.....Helen Thomas...let out of the sarcophagus...

re: #440 haakondahl

HT clawing her way out of her coffin. He's holding it shut, but can't hold on for long!

BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!

460 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:27:07am

re: #441 DisturbedEma

She had to wait for Chris Matthews to get done. . .

LOL

461 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:27:08am

re: #433 aggieann

And the MSM WILL PERSUADE YOU that Michelle is hot!

It's all about the "toned" arms.

462 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:27:08am

re: #456 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Gibby's my favorite. Christine and Angry Rich make the show perfect.

Darn tootin'.

463 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:27:10am

re: #458 tfc3rid

Helen Thomas looking to ask another anti-semetic question?

Does she ask any other kind?

464 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:27:30am

re: #463 Nevergiveup

Does she ask any other kind?

Good point...

465 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:27:43am

re: #442 albusteve

I'm a bit late here but Drudge is just Druge....I have to think one would be a bit paranoid to think he's trying to influence anybody...if it's crap then so be it...and I'm getting a bit tired of this 'you guys' shit too

Well, it seems that according to the up dings some of us are getting on this "train of thought," you're not the only one getting tired of the "you guys" shit and the "go seethe" rhetoric.

Getting old.

466 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:27:55am

re: #431 haakondahl

NEDA from Suzanne Malveaux; tossed as a softball.

Cousin to Julianne, another fucking idiot.

467 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:27:56am

Where in history have men and women been liberated for tyranny by the finesse of a rhetorician?

468 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:27:59am

re: #436 Nevergiveup

Well at least she didn't blow him

re: #439 katemaclaren

Crikey. The mummy speaks.....Helen Thomas...let out of the sarcophagus...

PLEASE! Do not tell me if Helen Thomas plans to blow TOTUS

469 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:28:06am

re: #446 tfc3rid

Obama voters calling John Gibson on Fox News Radio expressing buyers remorse...

Shit. Was in a hotel lobby with LGF...but this has got to be fun....

maybe I can get it on the intertubes...

470 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:28:18am
471 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:28:25am

re: #464 tfc3rid

Good point...

Hey how does your team keep wining with no major league ballplayers on the team and my team, well, sucks?

472 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:28:26am

re: #416 Killgore Trout

yes, they have no evidence. It was a normal question, no more unusual than any of the other questions despite their claim it was "clearly staged".

The set-up sounds very rehearsed, and as did the HuffPo reporter's canned response, which did not naturally follow from what the President said. And then there's this:

According to POLITICO's Carol Lee, The Huffington Post reporter was brought out of lower press by Deputy Press Secretary Josh Earnest and placed just inside the barricade for reporters a few minutes before the start of the press conference.

It's not conclusive evidence, but it makes me very suspicious.

473 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:28:41am

re: #462 tfc3rid

Darn tootin'.

Loved Fargo.

474 jwb7605  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:29:11am

re: #442 albusteve

I'm a bit late here but Drudge is just Druge....I have to think one would be a bit paranoid to think he's trying to influence anybody...if it's crap then so be it...and I'm getting a bit tired of this 'you guys' shit too

Upding, and I basically agree, except Drudge is trying to influence people.
It would be a bit difficult to run a popular website trying not to influence people.

I totally agree with the 'you guys' stuff.

475 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:29:15am

re: #466 MandyManners

Cousin to Julianne, another fucking idiot.

I wondered about that. I can't stand either one, but Su-ZAHN really grates on my nerves.

476 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:29:17am

re: #471 Nevergiveup

Hey how does your team keep wining with no major league ballplayers on the team and my team, well, sucks?

Just wait and see... Things will change...

477 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:29:29am

re: #404 Killgore Trout

And last week I posted within minutes of your link here that Bob Owens (Confederate Yankee) debunked that story and slammed Drudge for running with that nonsense.

478 itellu3times  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:29:37am

Well heck, the prepared speech posted at the top of this thread, reads as pretty reasonable stuff, not bad. Not great, but OK, even better than just OK. However, it does not mention the issues of the aggression of Iran against the west. That leaves a nice academic little speech as absurd on its own, like Obama never noticed that Iran is busy building nukes to attack Israel, and that it is a religious theocracy in the first place, with its leading/winning candidate a lunatic. Nope, can't mention any of that. So actually, Obama has many of the same rhetorical faults as the Bushes, and to a greater extent - he focuses on some small part and ignores inconvenient truths, one might say.

479 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:29:39am

sorry OT- what does GMTA stand for?

480 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:29:42am

re: #465 Walter L. Newton

Well, it seems that according to the up dings some of us are getting on this "train of thought," you're not the only one getting tired of the "you guys" shit and the "go seethe" rhetoric.

Getting old.


Man are all of you guys touchy.

/I kid I tease...

Blanket pronouncements like "you guys" and "we think" are a very common and simple way to avoid responsibility in an exchange. Usually followed by "where did I criticize you specifically?" or similar worm glurge.

481 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:29:50am

re: #404 Killgore Trout

He's been pushing a lot of bogus stories lately. Last week he was implying that the White House vegetable garden was fake.

I don't think he implies anything by his selection of links, he's like Rush in that he uses controversy to increase the traffic to his site. There is a really good article about Drudge out there on the internet, quite a different type of guy. I think you are reading too much into this.

482 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:29:57am

re: #473 midwestgak

Loved Fargo.

Saw it up in a theater near Whitebear Lake, MN myself. It adds to the hilarity when everyone around you sounds like they do in the movie.

483 Yankee Division Son  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:30:35am

re: #479 Cannadian Club Akbar

Great Minds Think Alike

484 Dianna  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:30:38am

re: #411 turn

Do what I did, start chewing. Actually Dianna warned me it's more dangerous than smoking so maybe I should go back to smoking and quit chewing. Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Turn, it's better not to do either!

Then you can play "none so pure as the purified!" too; it's going to be America's favorite game show, before long.

485 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:30:41am

re: #472 doppelganglander

It's not conclusive evidence, but it makes me very suspicious.


It's not even remotely suspicious. The more conservatives concentrate of bogus and paranoid conspiracy theories the happier the liberals get.

486 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:30:44am

re: #479 Cannadian Club Akbar

sorry OT- what does GMTA stand for?

Great Minds Think Alike.

487 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:30:48am

re: #479 Cannadian Club Akbar

sorry OT- what does GMTA stand for?

Good Muffins Taste Awesome.

488 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:30:56am

re: #474 jwb7605

Upding, and I basically agree, except Drudge is trying to influence people.
It would be a bit difficult to run a popular website trying not to influence people.

I totally agree with the 'you guys' stuff.

maybe he put certain stories up for laughs...who knows?...I don't see it as a big deal at all

489 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:31:17am
490 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:31:19am

re: #487 MandyManners

Good Muffins Taste Awesome.

Sure you mean Muffins?

491 jwb7605  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:31:23am

re: #479 Cannadian Club Akbar

sorry OT- what does GMTA stand for?

Who is OT?

492 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:31:23am

re: #404 Killgore Trout

He's been pushing a lot of bogus stories lately. Last week he was implying that the White House vegetable garden was fake.

You're "seething" over Drudge.

493 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:31:27am

re: #485 Killgore Trout

It's not even remotely suspicious. The more conservatives concentrate of bogus and paranoid conspiracy theories the happier the liberals get.

Or is it that they try and smokescreen and say it will 'hurt' to get people off the trail?

494 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:31:30am

re: #422 Baier

Good on ya. I'm not the typical tobacco junkie, I can go all day and not even think about it. But when I crack a beer, look out!

495 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:31:41am

re: #491 jwb7605

Who is OT?

Oliver twist

496 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:31:45am

re: #465 Walter L. Newton

Well, it seems that according to the up dings some of us are getting on this "train of thought," you're not the only one getting tired of the "you guys" shit and the "go seethe" rhetoric.

Getting old.

Walter--what does this mean? I'm lost (really, not kidding) about the "you guys" and "go seethe" rhetoric.

497 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:31:53am

re: #489 buzzsawmonkey

Greater Metropolitan Transit Authority.

Actually, that should be Greater Metropolitan Transportation Authority...

498 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:32:14am

re: #490 Nevergiveup

Sure you mean Muffins?

You don't mean Muppets, do you?

499 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:32:22am

re: #484 Dianna

Turn, it's better not to do either!

Then you can play "none so pure as the purified!" too; it's going to be America's favorite game show, before long.

I'd suck at that game, ha!

500 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:32:22am

re: #490 Nevergiveup

Sure you mean Muffins?

You got something against muffins?

501 redstateredneck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:32:39am

re: #482 Creeping Eruption

Saw it up in a theater near Whitebear Lake, MN myself. It adds to the hilarity when everyone around you sounds like they do in the movie.

Oh, yah, yah....

502 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:32:43am

re: #496 katemaclaren

Walter--what does this mean? I'm lost (really, not kidding) about the "you guys" and "go seethe" rhetoric.

It means Killgore is turning into a Progressive.

503 jwb7605  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:32:48am

re: #495 Nevergiveup

Oliver twist

I thought he got the stick!

504 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:32:51am

I missed Krauthammer...

505 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:08am

re: #491 jwb7605

Who is OT?

over time

506 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:10am

re: #480 DaddyG

"glurge"--I love that word! I am adding it to my vocab. Thanks!

507 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:16am

re: #502 Noam Sayin'

It means Killgore is turning into a Progressive.

Careful.

508 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:24am

re: #490 Nevergiveup

Sure you mean Muffins?

Must...restrain....brain......

509 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:26am

re: #487 MandyManners

Good Muffins Taste Awesome.

she told me to

walk this way, walk this way
walk this way, walk this way
walk this way, walk this way
walk this way, walk this way
just gimme a kiss
like this!

510 yochanan  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:29am

the zero still wants to shake the bloody hands of the iranian short shit.

511 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:37am

re: #500 MandyManners

You got something against muffins?

I had a dog named "Muffins" once. Bit people.

512 avanti  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:46am

re: #485 Killgore Trout

It's not even remotely suspicious. The more conservatives concentrate of bogus and paranoid conspiracy theories the happier the liberals get.

I think he decides who he will call on and perhaps Huffington asked if it would be OK to ask a question from a Iranian. I think it was obvious that he did not know the content of the question, but did know it was coming.

513 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:49am

re: #496 katemaclaren

It's part of the constant bickering that derails substantive discussions around here lately. Certain groups of lizards are trying to run various individuals off the blog. It's probably best to not get involved. These things usually don't go well.

514 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:49am

re: #502 Noam Sayin'

It means Killgore is turning into a Progressive.

Killgore is fighting one set of fallicies by adopting a whole new set of fallacies.

515 jwb7605  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:52am

re: #496 katemaclaren

Walter--what does this mean? I'm lost (really, not kidding) about the "you guys" and "go seethe" rhetoric.

Unlax. Walter is easy to piss off.

Watch this: { HI Walter! }

516 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:55am

I like Mandy's best. Thanks guys.

517 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:33:58am

re: #500 MandyManners

You got something against muffins?

really...I'm a stud muffin

518 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:34:02am

Someone should try to get the names of the dead and the disappeared. Jeanne Kirkpatrick used to read the names of the political prisoners in the gulags on the floor of the UN. We'll never see it, but it would have been nice.

519 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:34:02am

For 900 years have I trained Jedi.

He is too old, yes, too old to begin training.

520 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:34:12am

re: #507 Walter L. Newton

Careful.

Oh, very very careful
;-)

521 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:34:14am

re: #510 yochanan

the zero still wants to shake the bloody hands of the iranian short shit.

Well, we've been really mean to them for no reason for so long...

//////

522 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:34:26am

re: #481 turn

I think you are reading too much into this.

Killgore hasn't read too much into it. He's got an agenda to tarnish by attempting to discredit. He mostly fails because you people are way too smart for him.

523 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:03am

re: #522 unrealizedviewpoint

He's a ton smarter than me.

524 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:03am

re: #513 Killgore Trout

It's part of the constant bickering that derails substantive discussions around here lately. Certain groups of lizards are trying to run various individuals off the blog. It's probably best to not get involved. These things usually don't go well.

Thanks KT--I get it--and I'll be sure to stay out of it. Don't like these little tempests. Thanks again!

525 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:10am

re: #480 DaddyG

Man are all of you guys touchy.

/I kid I tease...

Blanket pronouncements like "you guys" and "we think" are a very common and simple way to avoid responsibility in an exchange. Usually followed by "where did I criticize you specifically?" or similar worm glurge.

Worm glurge.
Great description.

526 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:13am

re: #515 jwb7605

Unlax. Walter is easy to piss off.

Watch this: { HI Walter! }

What did you mean by HIGH?

527 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:13am

re: #511 katemaclaren

I had a dog named "Muffins" once. Bit people.

Shoulda' named it "Killer" and it woulda' been a sweetie.

528 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:22am

re: #467 karmic_inquisitor

Where in history have men and women been liberated for tyranny by the finesse of a rhetorician?


Neville Chamberlain... never mind.

529 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:23am

re: #498 Walter L. Newton

You don't mean Muppets, do you?

Ugh, no. I think you know what I mean. Just peeking to see of Mandy has her bat out?

530 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:29am

re: #512 avanti

I think he decides who he will call on and perhaps Huffington asked if it would be OK to ask a question from a Iranian. I think it was obvious that he did not know the content of the question, but did know it was coming.

It's not anything that hasn't happened at millions of other press conferences for the past 100 years or so. Maybe longer.

531 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:34am

re: #485 Killgore Trout

It's not even remotely suspicious. The more conservatives concentrate of bogus and paranoid conspiracy theories the happier the liberals get.

It's hardly a conspiracy theory. It's putting together simple observations of events that occurred in the same place within a few minutes and noticing something seems odd. Someone else might pick this up and try to turn it into a huge big deal, but I'm not. To me, it's just another example of the MSM fellating the Chief Executive and helping him advance his agenda. You seem to be okay with that, which tells me a lot about you.

532 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:37am

re: #430 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

CA cuts tax exemptions for kids


Fuck you CA. I need to get out of this shit

No shit. Hey I got an idea CA, how about cutting state spending and stop approving all these financially irresponsible initiatives?

533 Rednek  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:39am
534 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:46am

re: #508 BlueCanuck

Must...restrain....brain......

GMTA LOL.
Great Muff Tastes Awesome

535 [deleted]  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:46am
536 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:57am

re: #517 albusteve

really...I'm a stud muffin

A six pack of abs and buns of steel?

537 Dianna  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:35:58am

re: #485 Killgore Trout

Politico? GOP? Conservative?

In what dream world?

538 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:36:42am

re: #515 jwb7605

Unlax. Walter is easy to piss off.

Watch this: { HI Walter! }

I like Walter. He knows it. I'm not trying to make him mad--at all. ;-)

539 jcm  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:36:44am

re: #521 tfc3rid

Well, we've been really mean to them for no reason for so long...

//////

Time to apologize for putting that embassy with walls and gates in where the youts couldn't resist seeing what was inside.

///

540 Dianna  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:36:56am

re: #513 Killgore Trout

It's part of the constant bickering that derails substantive discussions around here lately. Certain groups of lizards are trying to run various individuals off the blog. It's probably best to not get involved. These things usually don't go well.

No, that's your paranoia and martyr complex speaking.

Knock it off.

541 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:37:04am

the iranian people are not trying to have a debate.
they are dying in the streets for freedom from the worst tyranny the world has to offer.
o is a disgrace.
is there no one in the white house to tell him how bad he looks.
him and his fcking cairo speech.

542 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:37:04am

re: #529 Nevergiveup

Ugh, no. I think you know what I mean. Just peeking to see of Mandy has her bat out?

No really, i thought you wanted to gum a Muppet :)

543 subsailor68  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:37:06am

re: #536 MandyManners

A six pack of abs and buns of steel?

Sigh. All I've got is a six pack and a box of buns.

544 nom de boom  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:37:22am

re: #485 Killgore Trout


Johnny One-Note

545 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:37:29am

re: #536 MandyManners

A six pack of abs and buns of steel?

Steel buns--better than muffins.

546 mikeymom  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:37:30am

as for chewing tobacco-- a good friends son- 50 yrs old--just had about 1/3 off his face removed due to cancer of the mouth.

547 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:37:33am

re: #536 MandyManners

A six pack of abs and buns of steel?

abs like kegs nowdays....my buns are just whole wheat...I might have misled you

548 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:37:37am

re: #530 Killgore Trout

It's not anything that hasn't happened at millions of other press conferences for the past 100 years or so. Maybe longer.

HuffPo's reporter happens to be one of the best sources of information on the Iranian situation - better even than the big media outlets like Reuters, AP, CNN, FoxNews.

In a way, I'm glad Obama called on her because it shows that someone in the Administration has been paying attention to what has been written, even if they haven't said the right things and muddled their way through hoping to end up on the right side of history via serendipity.

549 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:37:37am

re: #542 Walter L. Newton

No really, i thought you wanted to gum a Muppet :)

Ever go Muff diving?

550 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:38:19am

re: #506 katemaclaren

"glurge"--I love that word! I am adding it to my vocab. Thanks!

Stole it from Snopes.com - its the category they use for saccharine and substance-less stories.

551 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:38:20am

re: #494 turn

Good on ya. I'm not the typical tobacco junkie, I can go all day and not even think about it. But when I crack a beer, look out!

I had to quit drinking morning coffee. Too tempting to light up and "enjoy."

552 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:38:39am

re: #541 nyc redneck

If you follow some of the WH press people's twitter comments, you can see the love affair... It's sickening...

553 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:38:50am

re: #549 Nevergiveup

Ever go Muff diving?

/Need a snorkel for that?

554 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:38:53am

re: #526 Walter L. Newton

What did you mean by HIGH?

LOL!

555 Tumulus11  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:38:56am

CNN'S Suzanne Malveaux almost begs Mr. Obama for a condemnation of the killings and a warning to the Iranian dictatorship but this President is no Ronald Reagan:

Malveaux: 'We also have people on the ground that have been seeing that the streets are quieter now and that is because they fear that they are paralyzed by fear - fear of people gone missing, fear of violence - that perhaps this is a movement that's gone underground - that perhaps this is a movement which is dying. Do you have any concern over that?'

President Obama:
'I think it's important for us to make sure that we let the Iranian people know that we are watching.'

556 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:39:09am

re: #445 BlueCanuck

Nope, still not legal here at all. Some areas it's a misdemeanor to possess, quite a few advocacy groups though.

I heard a lot of pot in the US comes from Canada, it's all over northern CA. Biggest cash crop of many counties, more than grapes.

557 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:39:10am

KT -

Do you or do you not concede that David Axelrod used the technique (and coined the term) "astroturfing?"

If you concede he has (not sure you do), does he stand above suspicion in using simillar techniques as a White House official?

Would not planting questions (an allegation made and supported before) be beyond such a person?

Should allegations simply be dismissed because you use an ad hominem against the person who linked the story?

558 jwb7605  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:39:13am

re: #538 katemaclaren

I like Walter. He knows it. I'm not trying to make him mad--at all. ;-)

Now that will piss him off. You're on your own now. There are certain things he just won't tolerate.

559 avanti  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:39:19am

re: #530 Killgore Trout

It's not anything that hasn't happened at millions of other press conferences for the past 100 years or so. Maybe longer.

I know, but you need to let some folks vent now and then, it's good for their sanity.

560 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:39:21am

Where's the ball washer? Michelle let me have a couple today if I promised to play golf with them.

561 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:39:30am

re: #549 Nevergiveup

You are a BAD dog!

562 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:39:39am

re: #551 midwestgak

I had to quit drinking morning coffee. Too tempting to light up and "enjoy."

/SO what do drinking a morning coffee and doing bongs have to do with each other?

563 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:39:46am

re: #501 redstateredneck

Oh, yah, yah....

He was kinda funny lookin.

564 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:40:03am

re: #555 Tumulus11

CNN'S Suzanne Malveaux almost begs Mr. Obama for a condemnation of the killings and a warning to the Iranian dictatorship but this President is no Ronald Reagan:

Malveaux: 'We also have people on the ground that have been seeing that the streets are quieter now and that is because they fear that they are paralyzed by fear - fear of people gone missing, fear of violence - that perhaps this is a movement that's gone underground - that perhaps this is a movement which is dying. Do you have any concern over that?'

President Obama:
'I think it's important for us to make sure that we let the Iranian people know that we are watching.'

drooling voyeur

565 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:40:09am

re: #558 jwb7605

Now that will piss him off. You're on your own now. There are certain things he just won't tolerate.

LOL!

566 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:40:17am

re: #513 Killgore Trout

It's part of the constant bickering that derails substantive discussions around here lately. Certain groups of lizards are trying to run various individuals off the blog. It's probably best to not get involved. These things usually don't go well.

Killgore is talking about me. If I didn't want to see Killgore on this blog, I would simply leave the blog, that would save me a lot of time and energy.

567 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:40:19am

re: #549 Nevergiveup

Ever go Muff diving?

Old Scuba diver saying.
No Muff To Tough We Dive At Five.

Sorry ladies. It has only been one week since my wife has left. I have 5 more to go. I may get the stick before than. :)

568 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:40:21am

re: #553 Creeping Eruption

/Need a snorkel for that?

Depends if you have to ride the wave in?

569 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:40:22am

re: #555 Tumulus11

Nice royal plural Balmy Boy.

570 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:40:29am

re: #562 Creeping Eruption

/SO what do drinking a morning coffee and doing bongs have to do with each other?

It's a mighty fine rollercoaster ride... so I've heard... ;)

571 SteveC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:40:54am

re: #560 Shr_Nfr

Where's the ball washer? Michelle let me have a couple today if I promised to play golf with them.

Don't lose those in the rough, the President uses them occasionally.

Very occasionally.

572 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:41:09am

re: #561 katemaclaren

You are a BAD dog!

I know but it's been a long day

573 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:41:17am

re: #568 Nevergiveup

Depends if you have to ride the wave in?

That gave me a squickgiggle. Upding.

574 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:41:22am

re: #568 Nevergiveup

Email me, I've got something to copy/paste to you that you'll find fascinating that doesn't belong in this thread.

575 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:41:30am

re: #446 tfc3rid

Obama voters calling John Gibson on Fox News Radio expressing buyers remorse...

Just a Persian man on who was crying that his people want freedom and this man who he thought would do everything is doing nothing...

it is tragic, right now, to have such a self serving pompous lump of grandiosity in the white house.

576 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:41:33am

re: #558 jwb7605

Now that will piss him off. You're on your own now. There are certain things he just won't tolerate.

Right, like speaking for me jerk :)

577 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:41:47am

re: #568 Nevergiveup

Depends if you have to ride the wave in?

I regret that I have but one up-ding to give.

578 Kragar  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:41:54am

re: #532 turn

No shit. Hey I got an idea CA, how about cutting state spending and stop approving all these financially irresponsible initiatives?

Studying for my CISSP right now. Soon as I get it, I'm getting a job outside of this state.

579 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:41:57am

re: #555 Tumulus11

CNN'S Suzanne Malveaux almost begs Mr. Obama for a condemnation of the killings and a warning to the Iranian dictatorship but this President is no Ronald Reagan:

Malveaux: 'We also have people on the ground that have been seeing that the streets are quieter now and that is because they fear that they are paralyzed by fear - fear of people gone missing, fear of violence - that perhaps this is a movement that's gone underground - that perhaps this is a movement which is dying. Do you have any concern over that?'

Name names. Start with "Neda"

President Obama:
'I think it's important for us to make sure that we let the Iranian people know that we are watching.'

580 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:42:09am

I'm shocked the President wasn't asked by his adoring fans what he thinks about the divorce of Jon and Kate Gosselin...

581 Rancher  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:42:09am

Strongest response to date. I wonder if all those who said he was doing the right thing with his tepid appeasement of the regime will now criticize him? Doubt it.

582 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:42:13am

re: #467 karmic_inquisitor

Yeah, and like talk is cheap too.

583 avanti  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:42:17am

re: #540 Dianna

No, that's your paranoia and martyr complex speaking.

Knock it off.

How about dog piling me for a bit, KT is just one against many. You may not agree with him, but he's a important part of the lively discussion on here.

584 redstateredneck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:42:20am

re: #563 midwestgak

He was kinda funny lookin.

Funny lookin in what way?
:-)

585 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:42:26am

re: #574 tfc3rid

Email me, I've got something to copy/paste to you that you'll find fascinating that doesn't belong in this thread.

OK but how do I e-mail you? I never knew how to do that here?

586 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:42:54am

re: #585 Nevergiveup

OK but how do I e-mail you? I never knew how to do that here?

Click on my blue link.

587 doppelganglander  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:43:33am

re: #513 Killgore Trout

It's part of the constant bickering that derails substantive discussions around here lately. Certain groups of lizards are trying to run various individuals off the blog. It's probably best to not get involved. These things usually don't go well.

Oh, grow up. No one's trying to drive you off the blog. We are challenging your nonsense and forcing you to defend your statements. If you want to see and example of derailing substantive discussion, look no further than your mirror. Every day you bring up something related to Ron Paul, the Tea Parties, nirth sertificits, and the like. You want to get us all riled up so you can sit back and self-righteously put us in the same box as the truly deranged, foaming-at-the-mouth freepers and haters. We do not take the bait, but you usually manage to steer us into defending ourselves, conveniently making yourself the center of attention. And that is exactly what's going on here, and why I am done responding to you on this issue. When you've got something worthwhile to contribute (and to be fair, you often do), I'd be happy to engage in dialog with you.

588 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:43:38am

re: #576 Walter L. Newton

Hey Walt--you're in good form as usual! I always imagine that you have a twinkle in your eye.

589 jwb7605  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:43:48am

re: #557 karmic_inquisitor

KT -

Do you or do you not concede that David Axelrod used the technique (and coined the term) "astroturfing?"

If you concede he has (not sure you do), does he stand above suspicion in using simillar techniques as a White House official?

Would not planting questions (an allegation made and supported before) be beyond such a person?

Should allegations simply be dismissed because you use an ad hominem against the person who linked the story?


I find it interesting that "planted questions" would even be open as a debate topic, given the infomercial that ABC will be providing (tomorrow?)

590 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:43:51am

Obama to world press: "Violence is bad. I will watch some more and if there is more violence, I will boldly say again "violence is bad".

world press to Obama: "Where have you been all of these years? Such brilliant insights and bold actions."

And to think that Jefferson thought a free press would restrain government excess.

591 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:43:53am

re: #581 Rancher

Strongest response to date. I wonder if all those who said he was doing the right thing with his tepid appeasement of the regime will now criticize him? Doubt it.

No, they won't...

That said, why is it so important to not make the regime angry with our response... Who cahhhes what they think...

592 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:44:13am

I just read a great John Bolton quote on Obama: "The man just doesn't do crisis."

593 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:44:14am

re: #555 Tumulus11

CNN'S Suzanne Malveaux almost begs Mr. Obama for a condemnation of the killings and a warning to the Iranian dictatorship but this President is no Ronald Reagan:

Malveaux: 'We also have people on the ground that have been seeing that the streets are quieter now and that is because they fear that they are paralyzed by fear - fear of people gone missing, fear of violence - that perhaps this is a movement that's gone underground - that perhaps this is a movement which is dying. Do you have any concern over that?'

President Obama:
'I think it's important for us to make sure that we let the Iranian people know that we are watching.'


He's saying we're watching because he doesn't want to get into a situation where the people of Iran expect the US to come in and back them directly with force. He's trying to thread a needle on striking the right balance between support and distancing himself so that he doesn't make promises he can't keep (but which results in unintended consequences in any event).

This is not the same situation as Iraq after GWI, where US forces were inside the country and President Bush called for uprisings, which led to the violent crackdown by Saddam against the Kurds and Marsh Arabs - ethnic cleansing and genocide.

The Iranian people have to decide for themselves that they will persevere to overthrow the mullahs and change their form of government. It will not be by the hand of the US, although we can and should provide economic incentives for a new regime free and clear of the old one - reminding the Iranian people that we don't consider them our enemy, only a regime that considers everyone but their loyal followers the enemy.

594 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:44:21am

"We are watching" silently followed by the unspoken "to see what stance will ultimately be of greatest political advantage to me."

Just when I thought "under the bus" was full he finds more room to throw a whole dang country there.

595 capitalist piglet  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:44:37am

re: #513 Killgore Trout

It's part of the constant bickering that derails substantive discussions around here lately. Certain groups of lizards are trying to run various individuals off the blog. It's probably best to not get involved. These things usually don't go well.

Speaking of paranoia and conspiracy theories.

Who on earth is "trying to run various individuals off the blog"? Are you a target of this dark plot, Killgore?

596 redstateredneck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:44:57am

re: #592 Mad Al-Jaffee

I just read a great John Bolton quote on Obama: "The man just doesn't do crisis."

Perfect!

597 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:45:14am

re: #583 avanti

598 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:45:22am

re: #575 nyc redneck
Nice epitaph.

599 jwb7605  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:45:34am

re: #576 Walter L. Newton

Right, like speaking for me jerk :)

I only did that so you could leave the blog for a while to seethe.

600 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:45:38am

re: #562 Creeping Eruption

/SO what do drinking a morning coffee and doing bongs have to do with each other?

um, nothing. Absolutely nothing. hee. Only one bong BTW, with mineral water. Very green. And I slouch by that./

601 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:45:56am

re: #590 karmic_inquisitor

Obama to world press: "Violence is bad. I will watch some more and if there is more violence, I will boldly say again "violence is bad".

world press to Obama: "Where have you been all of these years? Such brilliant insights and bold actions."

And to think that Jefferson thought a free press would restrain government excess.

GOOOOOOD ONE! Outta da park!

602 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:46:17am

re: #598 DaddyG

Nice epitaph.


Let me be clear... not referring to his life just his political career. Just so stinky and the Secret Service don't misconstrue my meaning.

/checks for black helicopters...

603 Watcher  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:46:21am

It’s Over %P% 1:31 p.m. %P% Sheryl Stolberg: Mr. Obama leaves the room. “No questions about Iraq or Afghanistan?” a reporter cries out. The question hangs in the air. It does seem amazing, not a single question for the American president about the nation’s two wars.

Source.

604 sadhu  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:46:40am

worst president ever

605 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:46:51am

re: #586 tfc3rid

Click on my blue link.

OK I was there and then what do I click?

606 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:46:54am

re: #597 albusteve

avanti...attention whore

607 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:46:58am

re: #595 capitalist piglet

Speaking of paranoia and conspiracy theories.

Who on earth is "trying to run various individuals off the blog"? Are you a target of this dark plot, Killgore?

I'm here a lot of the time (sometimes lurking), and I can tell you, IMO no one is trying to run anyone off.

608 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:47:01am

Not quite OT, but certainly worth a developing situation.

Apparently there's a new video out that shows Ahmadinejad and mullahs discussing items in Farsi. The translations so far speak to laying the groundwork for the events we've seen unfolding.

Farsi translators need to get their hands on this.

609 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:47:19am

re: #588 katemaclaren

Hey Walt--you're in good form as usual! I always imagine that you have a twinkle in your eye.

Yep. And most people that know me personally know that I am a feisty talker, debater and sometimes a jerk, but barely a hateful bone in my body.

Unfortunately, I have met people who have some sort of need to be hated, and can't separate healthy disagreement from anger.

610 Dianna  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:47:19am

re: #583 avanti

How about dog piling me for a bit, KT is just one against many. You may not agree with him, but he's a important part of the lively discussion on here.

Avanti, don't take this the wrong way, but butt out of anything I have to say to KT.

I am very fond of KT. I admire him, I read his links.

However, he also has a few tics that worry me. 1) His recent kick of insisting that every bit of strangeness is "conservative" or "GOP"; to say nothing of his increasing (erroneous) conviction that Ron Paul (?!) is the new leader of the GOP. I note that Ross Perot was exposed as a nut the first time he ran, and did even worse the next time, and I expect exactly the same fate to overtake RP. 2) His recent displays of what I can only describe as paranoia (he deliberately provokes a reaction with broad based slurs, then cries that he is being persecuted - which he is not). 3) His increasing martyr complex, displayed very clearly on this thread and his remark to Kate McClaren.

611 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:47:25am

re: #605 Nevergiveup

OK I was there and then what do I click?

Follow the instructions on the page... Charles has a safe email thingy set up...

612 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:47:36am

re: #592 Mad Al-Jaffee

I just read a great John Bolton quote on Obama: "The man just doesn't do crisis."

I am a John Bolton fan. Boy can he talk while chewing gum.

613 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:47:40am

re: #603 Watcher

The bloggers at the NYT are all right wing idiots.

/

614 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:47:58am

re: #548 lawhawk

HuffPo's reporter happens to be one of the best sources of information on the Iranian situation - better even than the big media outlets like Reuters, AP, CNN, FoxNews.

In a way, I'm glad Obama called on her because it shows that someone in the Administration has been paying attention to what has been written, even if they haven't said the right things and muddled their way through hoping to end up on the right side of history via serendipity.

Agreed. He also posted a few hours ago that he was soliciting questions from Iranians to ask at the press conference. It's not surprising that he was called on. The only bummer is that the left wing coverage of Iran has been so much better than right wing coverage. This whole situation has been a huge windfall for Huffpo.

615 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:48:03am

re: #587 doppelganglander

Oh, grow up. No one's trying to drive you off the blog. We are challenging your nonsense and forcing you to defend your statements. If you want to see and example of derailing substantive discussion, look no further than your mirror. Every day you bring up something related to Ron Paul, the Tea Parties, nirth sertificits, and the like. You want to get us all riled up so you can sit back and self-righteously put us in the same box as the truly deranged, foaming-at-the-mouth freepers and haters. We do not take the bait, but you usually manage to steer us into defending ourselves, conveniently making yourself the center of attention. And that is exactly what's going on here, and why I am done responding to you on this issue. When you've got something worthwhile to contribute (and to be fair, you often do), I'd be happy to engage in dialog with you.

100 updings if I had them. :)

616 midwestgak  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:48:12am

re: #584 redstateredneck

Funny lookin in what way?
:-)

You know. Funny lookin.

617 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:48:17am

re: #567 Erik The Red

Old Scuba diver saying.
No Muff To Tough We Dive At Five.

Does that include Helen Thomas'? Janet Reno's?

618 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:48:24am

re: #595 capitalist piglet

Speaking of paranoia and conspiracy theories.

Who on earth is "trying to run various individuals off the blog"? Are you a target of this dark plot, Killgore?


You know... "certain groups". Like the Lizard who shall not be named.

619 _RememberTonyC  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:48:30am

re: #319 MandyManners

He'd take away Cousin Bessie's gun.


Jethro would kick his scrawny butt

620 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:49:18am

re: #609 Walter L. Newton

Yep. And most people that know me personally know that I am a feisty talker, debater and sometimes a jerk, but barely a hateful bone in my body.

Unfortunately, I have met people who have some sort of need to be hated, and can't separate healthy disagreement from anger.

I thought so, you sly fox.

621 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:49:24am

re: #584 redstateredneck

Funny lookin in what way?
:-)

He wasn't circumcised?

622 Rancher  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:49:33am

re: #591 tfc3rid

No, they won't...

That said, why is it so important to not make the regime angry with our response... Who cahhhes what they think...


He still harbors hope that he can negotiate with the Mullahs. What he should recognize, and maybe he has, is that the ones whose opinions really matter, the ones who actually have an open mind concerning America and the west, are the protesters in the street.

623 jwb7605  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:49:37am

re: #612 katemaclaren

I am a John Bolton fan. Boy can he talk while chewing gum.

I am SO stealing that line!

624 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:49:49am

re: #583 avanti

They get really pissed when people debunk whatever conspiracy they're pushing. Charles caught a lot of shit from conservative blogs for being able to read the DHS memo. So it goes.

625 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:49:52am

Dude... My bad... Fixed it now, I think...

626 Watcher  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:50:12am

re: #613 karmic_inquisitor

NYT is a like a hornet's nest of right-wing nuts.
/

627 lawhawk  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:50:19am

re: #614 Killgore Trout

The only bummer is that the left wing coverage of Iran has been so much better than right wing coverage. This whole situation has been a huge windfall for Huffpo.

For one blogger at Huffpo who has contacts and her efforts are definitely commendable, and excitable Andy Sullivan. That's the sum total of the left wing coverage worth relating.

The right side of the blogosphere is more than holding its own here, if you only bother to look.

628 DaddyG  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:51:19am

re: #617 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does that include Helen Thomas'? Janet Reno's?

Would you ruin a good chain saw on petrified wood? Just sayin' /

629 Erik The Red  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:51:19am

re: #617 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does that include Helen Thomas'? Janet Reno's?

BRAIN BLEACH. ewwwwww

630 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:51:25am

re: #546 mikeymom

gulp ...

631 avanti  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:51:39am

re: #610 Dianna

Avanti, don't take this the wrong way, but butt out of anything I have to say to KT.

I am very fond of KT. I admire him, I read his links.

I should not attached by comment to your post, or any lizard's in particular. I just though KT could use a break to take a breath.

632 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:51:41am

Well, so long everyone--I have to go to Toys R Us--for a Terminator action figure. Then I can play out my fantasies (just kidding)--it's my boy--he's saved up for this glorious purchase, and I promised if he had good grades. Sigh. What we do for love.

633 Rancher  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:51:42am

re: #627 lawhawk

The right side of the blogosphere is more than holding its own here, if you only bother to look.


Including this here site!

634 MandyManners  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:51:43am

re: #619 _RememberTonyC

Jethro would kick his scrawny butt

That would be Ellie Mae. Jethro would out-cipher him.

635 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:51:48am

The left has some cognitive dissonance to deal with on the horizon when the Iranian Protest movement is literaly crushed and Obama later flies to Tehran to do his "America Eats Humble Pie" tour

636 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52:02am

re: #623 jwb7605

I am SO stealing that line!

You may SO be my guest!

637 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52:10am

The tragedy and the missed opportunity here is that the protesters in Iran are not asking for the 82nd Airborne. They are asking for moral support and the knowledge that one of the beacons of freedom in the world stands behind them in principle. Given that they will do the heavy lifting. Absent that, the spirit collapses. Reagan didn't send the Marines into Berlin either. He spoke with moral authority and the forces of freeedom did the rest.
All Obama has to do is use that reputed silver tongue of his and historic events would likely follow. He will not because he is a vacant man. A poseur and nothing else. Sad for the Iranian people and sad for the world.

638 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52:26am

re: #627 lawhawk

There's been some coverage but the big dogs (Malkin, hot air, instapundit, PJM) coverage hasn't even been close to Huffpo. Sullivan has done some really good coverage but decided to mix in some really bad conservative/neo-con bashing nonsense.

639 redstateredneck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:52:45am

re: #616 midwestgak

You know. Funny lookin.

I never get tired of watching that movie. My older daughter can't stand it. I usually adopt the accent for the rest of the day after I've seen it which adds to her distaste!

640 Dianna  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:53:04am

re: #624 Killgore Trout

I read it, too.

I disagree with you and Charles. I will continue to state my grounds for disagreement.

Note: I am not saying there are not right-wing extremists.

I am saying that the DHS memo was useless. I stand by that.

641 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:53:19am

re: #631 avanti

I should not attached by comment to your post, or any lizard's in particular. I just though KT could use a break to take a breath.

bullshit...you envy anyone getting hammered, it's your schtick to be the lone martyr

642 poteen  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:53:24am
As I said in Cairo, suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. The Iranian people have a universal right to assembly and free speech. If the Iranian government seeks the respect of the international community, it must respect those rights, and heed the will of its own people. It must govern through consent, not coercion. That is what Iran’s own people are calling for, and the Iranian people will ultimately judge the actions of their own government.

The opportunity is there. The Iranian government's domestic trouble trumps their international ambition.
So send the covert aid already!

643 LGoPs  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:53:38am

re: #639 redstateredneck

I never get tired of watching that movie. My older daughter can't stand it. I usually adopt the accent for the rest of the day after I've seen it which adds to her distaste!

Oh yeah.
:)

644 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:54:02am

re: #631 avanti

It's ok, I'm used to scrolling past. It only becomes a problem when it's on a serious thread. The bickering just makes it hard to find relevant information.

645 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:54:09am

re: #632 katemaclaren

Well, so long everyone--I have to go to Toys R Us--for a Terminator action figure. Then I can play out my fantasies (just kidding)--it's my boy--he's saved up for this glorious purchase, and I promised if he had good grades. Sigh. What we do for love.

I miss my G.I. Joe with Kung Fu grip. When I discovered my folks sold it at a flea market, I nearly shed a tear... Ah, the things we miss.

646 Dianna  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:54:37am

re: #627 lawhawk

For one blogger at Huffpo who has contacts and her efforts are definitely commendable, and excitable Andy Sullivan. That's the sum total of the left wing coverage worth relating.

The right side of the blogosphere is more than holding its own here, if you only bother to look.

But he might encounter Ron Paul! Or, worse, he might not, and he'd really worry, then.

/BTW - I'm teasing. Poking fun. Not attacking.

647 albusteve  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:54:46am

re: #644 Killgore Trout

It's ok, I'm used to scrolling past. It only becomes a problem when it's on a serious thread. The bickering just makes it hard to find relevant information.

Ron Paul is relevant!

648 jwb7605  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:54:48am

re: #635 karmic_inquisitor

The left has some cognitive dissonance to deal with on the horizon when the Iranian Protest movement is literaly crushed and Obama later flies to Tehran to do his "America Eats Humble Pie" tour

The "cognitive dissonance" phrase made Juan Williams pop into my head. That guy is having serious issues with himself defending Obama lately, and it shows.

649 turn  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:54:50am

re: #551 midwestgak

I had to quit drinking morning coffee. Too tempting to light up and "enjoy."

The turnwife smokes, I know all about that morning coffee thing. It's the same with me and chewing at beer thirty. I wish she would quit though but I don't harrang her. Good for ya gal.

650 Sergeant Major  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:55:01am

I have a couple of great ideas: Lets watch innocent people get killed then invite the leadership of their country to visit us on our day of independence....after that I will fix health care for everyone but you won't be able to get to your doctor because you can't afford to put gas in your car... what did you say? those ideas have already been taken?...Damn!

651 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:55:22am

re: #610 Dianna

I suspect everyone who updinged this comment, including myself, likes Killgore, but we will call bullshit when we see it.

652 redstateredneck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:55:23am

re: #621 Mad Al-Jaffee

He wasn't circumcised?

Was he funny lookin apart from that?

653 tfc3rid  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:55:40am

re: #648 jwb7605

The "cognitive dissonance" phrase made Juan Williams pop into my head. That guy is having serious issues with himself defending Obama lately, and it shows.

He can't defend him anymore... He is not defending him...

654 poteen  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:56:13am

re: #617 Mad Al-Jaffee

Does that include Helen Thomas'? Janet Reno's?

// 99 years on the waterboard for that you goofy bastard.!

655 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:56:27am

re: #645 MrSilverDragon

I miss my G.I. Joe with Kung Fu grip. When I discovered my folks sold it at a flea market, I nearly shed a tear... Ah, the things we miss.

So true.

656 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:56:42am
657 redstateredneck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:56:47am

Back to work.
See y'all.

P.S. Did I mention I'm going on vacation?
:D

658 avanti  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:57:00am

re: #624 Killgore Trout

They get really pissed when people debunk whatever conspiracy they're pushing. Charles caught a lot of shit from conservative blogs for being able to read the DHS memo. So it goes.

Well, what do you expect, it's the "kill the messenger" syndrome.

659 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:57:11am

re: #632 katemaclaren

Well, so long everyone--I have to go to Toys R Us--for a Terminator action figure. Then I can play out my fantasies (just kidding)--it's my boy--he's saved up for this glorious purchase, and I promised if he had good grades. Sigh. What we do for love.

You'll be back.

660 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:57:45am

re: #659 Kosh's Shadow

You'll be back.

Hasta la vista--baby.

661 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:58:00am

Summary for anyone scrolling past the KT / avanti exchange -

Our critics are irrational and immature. We are big enough to ignore their criticisms and not respond.

662 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:58:20am

re: #608 lawhawk

Not quite OT, but certainly worth a developing situation.

Apparently there's a new video out that shows Ahmadinejad and mullahs discussing items in Farsi. The translations so far speak to laying the groundwork for the events we've seen unfolding.

Farsi translators need to get their hands on this.

I think it's in the works.
Yma posted some "tweets" about this earlier today

663 Dianna  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:59:04am

re: #658 avanti

Well, what do you expect, it's the "kill the messenger" syndrome.

Do not feed the martyr complex. It's cruel.

664 rightside  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 10:59:27am

re: #657 redstateredneck

Enjoy, and be safe.

665 avanti  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:00:19am

re: #641 albusteve

bullshit...you envy anyone getting hammered, it's your schtick to be the lone martyr

Odd, that you know what's in my head, when I don't have a clue as to what's going on in yours. I have tried my best to avoid being hammered for my minority opinion. If I craved that attention, I would just need to get snarky.

666 nyc redneck  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:02:05am

re: #552 tfc3rid

If you follow some of the WH press people's twitter comments, you can see the love affair... It's sickening...

it is almost fascinating, in a perverse way, what we are witnessing.
this inept inexperienced buffoon transformed by the msm into a deity, held high to the world as a savior of all man kind.
and the narcissist is not the least bit uncomfortable w/ that.
only a sociopath could stalk around, in kingly fashion, arrogantly spewing stupidity like he does.
he is going to wear out his welcome w/ the public.
no matter how the msm will try to insist that he deserves to sit on the throne and wear a crown.
they are underestimating the common sense of the american voter.

667 nom de boom  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:04:29am

OT: Someone posted this link in the Neda thread last night. I was lurking, as I usually do, and so I thought I would repost so that more lizards could see the horrifying ideological dilemma some on the left are facing, namely that a regime change in Iran will expose Iran to imperialism. Decisions, decisions. Take a look at the comments.

668 Sergeant Major  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:06:41am

re: #657 redstateredneck

Back to work.
See y'all.

P.S. Did I mention I'm going on vacation?
:D


Have fun,
My wife and I just got back from Jamaica.....what a great time.

669 Daria Emmons  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:13:29am

Obama's words were stronger, but not strong enough.

This idea about respecting Iran's sovereignty is patently absurd. Obama has no problem disrespecting Israeli sovereignty.

But moreover, Obama made it seem like the USA is just witnessing what is going on and can do nothing at all. In fact, the following can and should be done:

(1) State clearly that all negotiations with Iran regarding its nuke program will be ground to a halt until there is a showing they respect the rule of law. (including disinviting the mullahs to the US 4th of July picnic)

(2) Convene nations together and convince those we can affect to stop exporting processed fuel into Iran. This means telling Germany, India, Bahrain, and other countries that they will feel the American might if they do not stop selling processed fuel to Iran.

(3) Stop calling Iran the "Islamic Republic of Iran." That itself grants legitimacy to the Iranian regime.

This is for starters.

670 Challenger  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:14:28am

Well thank goodness we're respecting their sovereignty...
/s

Dingbat. Dictators have NO sovereignty.

671 horse  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:15:02am

re: #333 Killgore Trout

Drudge is an idiot.

Hmmm, I traced the long thread of posts back to this comment. You do realize the story is not Drudge's, it was written by Michael Calderone at Politco - [Link: www.politico.com...] It is a pretty well documented article with several sources. So, all your somewhat snide comments about drudge etc.. are irreverent to the actual story. You might want to actually read the story and get the details before you spend numerous comments deriding it and the people mentioning it.

672 SecondComing  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:15:41am

re: #442 albusteve

and I'm getting a bit tired of this 'you guys' shit too

here here!

673 vestalmiss  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:29:14am

I have a question, what was the Spock reference about ? Which reporter made the reference and why?

674 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:41:24am

Sorry, this is a hit and run comment, but I saw these updates on Politico (linked from Drudge who someone thought was posting unreliable info from Politico concerning presser question on IRAN) and thought this interesting. Go to Politico to read the whole thing.

CBS Radio's Mark Knoller, a veteran White House correspondent, said over Twitter it was "very unusual that Obama called on Huffington Post second, appearing to know the issue the reporter would ask about."

According to POLITICO's Carol Lee, The Huffington Post reporter was brought out of lower press by deputy press secretary Josh Earnest and placed just inside the barricade for reporters a few minutes before the start of the press conference.

(This post was rewritten shortly after the exchange and updated in the text. Initially, I wrote the exchange was "clearly coordinated," but have since put the question to a Huffington Post spokesperson and the White House for more elaboration. See updates: There was discussion between the White House and Pitney about asking an Iran question).

UPDATE: Deputy press secretary Bill Burton responds: "We did reach out to him prior to press conference to tell him that we had been paying attention to what he had been doing on Iran and there was a chance that he’d be called on. And, he ended up asking the toughest question that the President took on Iran. In the absence of an Iranian press corps in Washington, it was an innovative way to get a question directly from an Iranian."

UPDATE 2: Knoller, again via Twitter: "Huffington Post's Nico Pitney says the WH called him this morning and invited him to ask his Iran questions at the news conference."

675 katemaclaren  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:42:06am

re: #671 horse

Look at the updates. Confirmed Drudge.

676 danrudy  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 11:46:56am

re: #63 MandyManners

He just called the protests and deaths an "extraordinary debate taking place". What a fucking ignorant idiot.

Next time Israel feels the need to go into Gaza to combat rocket launchers and everyone is screaming about "innocents" dying I will just have to remember to say "relax dude, they are just having a vigorous debate".

677 kaymad  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 12:09:23pm

re: #446 tfc3rid

Obama voters calling John Gibson on Fox News Radio expressing buyers remorse...

Just a Persian man on who was crying that his people want freedom and this man who he thought would do everything is doing nothing...

It makes one wonder what Obama ever said to make anyone think that he might go to war over anything, especially Iran? Apparently Obama was and is a blank slate that gullible people saw what they wanted to see. It would be sad if we weren't having to pay such a steep price for their stupidity.

678 hazzyday  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 12:32:47pm

re: #671 horse

Hmmm, I traced the long thread of posts back to this comment. You do realize the story is not Drudge's, it was written by Michael Calderone at Politco - [Link: www.politico.com...] It is a pretty well documented article with several sources. So, all your somewhat snide comments about drudge etc.. are irreverent to the actual story. You might want to actually read the story and get the details before you spend numerous comments deriding it and the people mentioning it.

Kilgore being a unique prolific mostly positive commenter has reached the fork in the road he was aiming for. All this broad based brushing of the LGF members and conflating them with the crazies is something he is shooting for. I think the lesson here is on Kilgore's side not on the members side. When one feels passionate about issues it is sometimes hard to maintain a reasonable perspective. It takes effort that one doesn't always want to make. It's a theme particular to LGF logic. We disagree with something and we unable to define the focus of our disagreement. All,More, some, most, you, it are neutral words that acquire a context of intent and emotion. It seems wise inside the blog to make the effort to respond to honest questions and to be specific on issues. And have some links or facts to back the statements up. For Kilgores volume of commentary he does this as well as anyone. Even in the fast moving threads.

A lot of the noise generation Kilgore is complaining about is Kilgore generated. Kilgore has stepped up a lot of times for the blog. The noise generation is just a personal weakness that's up to him if he wants to overcome it or not. It adds some flavor but can also give heartburn.

Sharmuta, Kilgore, Zombie, and Charles(and others) have all put themselves out there. Open to criticism on a constant basis. I have not. I can retreat easily away from my sniping. They do the yeomans work.

But over time I do think we are seeing a rise in the level of discussion. A quickness and sharpness in deflating the fallible balloons people launch. Much to their dismay.

679 guftafs  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 12:42:16pm
The Iranian people are trying to have a debate about their future. Some in the Iranian government are trying to avoid that debate by accusing the United States and others outside of Iran of instigating protests over the elections.

The Iranian people can speak for themselves. That is precisely what has happened these last few days.

Who wrote this awful piece of bs?

680 realwest  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 1:26:45pm

Is there some reason President Obama doesn't like to use words like "Freedom" or "Demcracy" when he talks about Iran?

681 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 1:31:31pm

re: #669 Daria Emmons


Obama's words were stronger, but not strong enough.

This idea about respecting Iran's sovereignty is patently absurd. Obama has no problem disrespecting Israeli sovereignty.

But moreover, Obama made it seem like the USA is just witnessing what is going on and can do nothing at all. In fact, the following can and should be done:

This is precisely the problem the US has: if Obama even suggests the US is or can do somehting to help the pro-democracy protestors, he will hand the regime a useful propaganda weapon.

(1) State clearly that all negotiations with Iran regarding its nuke program will be ground to a halt until there is a showing they respect the rule of law. (including disinviting the mullahs to the US 4th of July picnic)

To tie these protests to a conflict over Iran's nuclear weapons is a sure fire way to destroy any hope the peopl may have of defeating the mullahs. First, get rid of the mullahs, then we can deal with the nukes.

(2) Convene nations together and convince those we can affect to stop exporting processed fuel into Iran. This means telling Germany, India, Bahrain, and other countries that they will feel the American might if they do not stop selling processed fuel to Iran.

See above.

IMO, Obama's speech was very very good. He showed compassion and empathy for the people, praised their courage, condemned the regime violence and reminded everybody, this is Iran's problem to solve. He should have given this speech a week ago, but I'll take it now.

682 ladycatnip  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 1:33:12pm

Who writes for this man? The tripe that The One exhales is empty rhetoric. According to Obama, what we've seen for the last week or so is just the Iranians speaking for themselves and trying to have a debate? Unbelievably offensive, asinine, and plain stupid for him to say that. Why are we surprised - this from a man who only voted present for most of his 143-day "career" in the senate.

683 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 1:35:26pm

re: #680 realwest

Is there some reason President Obama doesn't like to use words like "Freedom" or "Demcracy" when he talks about Iran?

Actually, there might be. To Mulsims, the word "freedom" smacks to much of chaos and sin. To Islamic ears, the opposite of tyranny is not "freedom", but justice. He used that word twice. To Muslims, the concept of "justice" in government is profound and will resonate in Iran. There is an Islamic proverb: The ruler who is not just, is not legitimate.

684 horse  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 1:36:16pm

re: #675 katemaclaren

Look at the updates. Confirmed Drudge.

What do you mean by "look at the updates" and "confirmed drudge"? Whose update where? Michael Calderone did the work and wrote the actual article, drudge just linked to it. The drudge [Link: www...] doesn't do reporting, it is just a bulletin board of links. What was your point? Thanks.

685 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 1:42:28pm

Actually, Obama said "justice" twice and "unjust" once. It's no accident. Yup, his Iranian policy advisers know what those words will mean in Iran. Well chosen.

686 horse  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 1:44:52pm

re: #678 hazzyday

Thank you for the extended comment. I am not entirely certain of the core message, but it appears the gist is that Kilgore posts a lot, and sometimes he may post a little too quickly; something many of us do from time to time. I do find a number of his posts to be valuable, even if I don't always agree with them. The point of my comment was he spent an entire thread (rather than just a single comment) digging a hole he didn't need to dig.

687 ladycatnip  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 1:45:28pm

#683 Kenneth

To Islamic ears, the opposite of tyranny is not "freedom", but justice.

Really? I guess it depends upon which islamic ears we're talking about. Justice is all abut sharia law in muslim countries, and it's not what the freedom-loving west would ever consider just.

688 zzzzzzzzzz.....  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 1:46:28pm

The first rule of holes: When in a hole stop digging

689 Kenneth  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 1:53:04pm

re: #687 ladycatnip

You are partly right. Sharia law is part of what justice means in Islam. But in the context of this election, in which the protoestors are shouting "Death to the dictator", and "Where's my vote" it is also true "justice" is about the legitimacy of the regime.

690 ladycatnip  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 3:01:06pm

#689 Kenneth

I see your point, but it leads us to a massive disconnect - under sharia law, justice is cutting off the hand that stole; justice is whipping a rape victim to death or stoning to death; justice is killing a family member who may have dishonored her family; justice is whipping drinkers and gamblers. Under sharia, Islam allows husbands to hit their wives; under sharia, islam allows an injured plaintiff to exact revenge - an eye for a physical eye. Justice under sharia commands that robbers be crucified. Justice under sharia is to execute all homosexuals. Under sharia, justice means putting critics of Mohammad and islam to death.

The list is endless, but for Obama to speak their language in terms understood by sharia, is to endorse them.

Bottom line, there is no justice under sharia.

691 odorlesspaintthinner  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 4:01:58pm

The problem with this speech is the problem with Obama.

He sees televised images of violence and feels he "has" to say something. But what he says has no substance, because he "respects the sovereignty of the Islamic Republic of Iran" so we all know he will do nothing about this. After all, sovereignty cannot be violated. So he makes speeches with no teeth. This is speaking loudly and carrying no stick. And by extension, they will read into this what he will do about their nuclear program.

Does he have to make threats to be effective? Not necessarily, but he also does not have to broadcast that he has no intentions. Let the natural paranoia of our enemies fill in the gaps between the lines. Leave some ambiguity. Remember just the threat of Reagan the cowboy got us our hostages back.

The unfortunate truth is this quality of Obama is what will likely cause a war, because emboldened tyrants always start wars thinking they have bullied the great powers into submission. Once Ahmadinejad settles back in, he will call Hugo Chavez and they will both make note of America the toothless, and then he will decide on some new venture in Lebanon or Gaza and use the Palestinians to provoke the Israelis to their own crackdown, at which point he will draw moral equivalence and blame Obama for not issuing the same protests. I'm writing that scenario practically in my sleep because it's so foregone.

692 Formercorpsman  Tue, Jun 23, 2009 6:29:37pm

Too little.

Too late.


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