The Other ‘Other McCain’

Robert Stacy McCain’s long history of racist statements and associations with extremists
US News • Views: 18,155

Kejda Gjermani has a very good post about white supremacist blogger Robert Stacy McCain (a man who associates with neo-Nazis and outright hate groups like American Renaissance) and his deranged one-sided “war” against me: The Other “Other McCain”.

Unprovoked and unchallenged, Robert Stacy McCain has been harassing Charles Johnson of LittleGreenFootballs relentlessly over the past ten days—twenty posts and counting since September 15th and the archive of hatred and verbose distortions runs deeper. Yesterday, seemingly unsatisfied at the breadth and depth the coverage of Johnson’s evils had received from his own blog, he launched a new outlet for seething against him, carved out of HotAir with its administrators’ approval. From McCain’s inauguratory remarks, we learn that creating the Green Room—as he colorfully calls it—had become necessary because both at his blog and at HotAir, “commenters have been hijacking every thread to discuss the disastrous self-immolation of Charles Johnson.” That HotAir and the Other McCain are plagued by hordes of commenters who care for nothing but trashing Johnson—to the point of needing a separate forum custom-made for this purpose—speaks more about these blogs’ readership and appeal than it does about Johnson.

But let me speak about Charles Johnson for a minute. He does not need me to defend him, but if I keep silent, a few facts may remain understated: For one thing, he never started a blog war with Robert Stacy McCain. All he did was note—in a discreet comment at his site—that Stephen Green of Vodkapundit was promoting McCain, whom Charles rightfully labeled a white supremacist. When Green responded with a passive-aggressive post making excuses for McCain, Charles provided sources to back his assertion. See that? Only two hyperlinks in the next-to-last sentence, because two posts, mainly consisting of outside sources and direct quotes—the most damning ones from McCain himself—were enough to establish McCain’s racist bona fides. Truth is succinct, truth is crisp. It does not seethe, it does not prevaricate, it is not affected.

What McCain has responded with are long-winded heaps of nothingness, shot through the ether in rapid succession. Does he ever address the direct quotes and facts Charles has laid out? No. Here is an example of what he does instead…

Read the whole thing. (And I want to express my sincere gratitude to Kejda for her kind words.)

Also note that even Glenn Reynolds is now linking with approval to McCain. Here’s Instapundit denouncing neo-Confederates in 2005.

Now he’s praising them.

And Hot Air is letting McCain use their site to spew hatred at me.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization that monitors racist hate groups, has several articles featuring Robert Stacy McCain prominently. Here’s one: SPLCenter.org: Intelligence Project Exposes Extremists in Public Life.

Here’s another: SPLCenter.org: Defending Dixie.

And another: The House Cleaning Continues at The Washington Times | Hatewatch | Southern Poverty Law Center.

And another: SPLCenter.org: The News That Fits.

And another: SPLCenter.org: A League of Their Own.

And here’s an index page listing a few of the hundreds of links Robert Stacy McCain posted at Free Republic under the name “BurkeCalhounDabney.” All these links have been deleted (I wonder why?) but the index remains, and you can see that McCain linked not only to American Renaissance, but to the vile neo-Nazi site overthrow.com (now offline), run by McCain’s friend Bill White, currently in jail in Virginia:

Communist Teachers Using Classroom Time To Recruit
April 8, 2001 3:56:37 PM PDT · by BurkeCalhounDabney · 14+ views
LSN/overthrow.com ^ | April 7, 2001 | LSN Staff

Communist Teachers Using Classroom Time To Recruit As If You Needed A Reason To Be Against Public Schooling 4/7/01 3:50:23 PM LSN Staff New York, NY — Members of the radical communist Progressive Labor Party who teach in New York’s and Chicago’s Public Schools have been using classroom time to recruit students into the organization and sell students Communist newspapers. Moises Bernal and Carol Caref, members of the PLP, were recently fired from their jobs at Chicago Vocational Career Academy after it was discovered they were using their position to take their classes on “field trips” to Communist rallies — …

[…]

Slavery Reparations Debate
May 24, 2001 7:07:16 AM PDT · by BurkeCalhounDabney · 7+ views
American Renaissance ^ | May 24, 2001

You are cordially invited to a debate: “The Best Response to the Slavery Reparations Movement” featuring Jared Taylor Author & Editor of American Renaissance versus Samuel Francis Author & Nationally Syndicated Columnist Sunday June 3, 2001, at 7:00pm American Legion Hall Old Town Alexandria, Virginia 400 Cameron Street * admission is free * sponsored by the Capitol Region Chapter, Council of Conservative Citizens The American Legion Hall is in the same building as the historic Gadsby’s Tavern. Signs to Old Town and Gadsby’s are found on any route to Alexandria. Cameron Street is one block north of, and exactly parallel …

Here’s an article McCain wrote for American Renaissance in 2002 under his pseudonym Burke C. Dabney, titled Race and Teenage Pregnancy:

One might well wonder about indiscriminate anti-natalist propaganda when some groups in the country are already below replacement-level fertility. The “success” of such propaganda only accelerates the decline of the white population. If crusaders against teenage motherhood were serious, they would concentrate on the black and Hispanic girls who account for more than half of teenage births. Targeting whites as part of a general campaign is yet another form of racial suicide.

Don’t take my word for it that American Renaissance is an outright white supremacist hate site; here’s a Google cache link. Go ahead, investigate it for yourself and see the kinds of people with whom Robert Stacy McCain associates.

And here’s the Internet Archive’s index of copies of the disgusting neo-Nazi site Overthrow.com. Warning: this one is really bad.

This episode is an ongoing disgrace, from which the right wing blogosphere may never recover.

I’ve made my position very clear — I won’t stand with racists and white supremacists, not now, not in the past, not ever. There’s a very bad craziness on the right, and I won’t have any part of it.

UPDATE at 9/22/09 11:16:27 pm:

In a September 14th entry on his site, Robert Stacy McCain tried to distance himself from neo-Nazi Bill White. His post concluded with this:

Of these three individuals — George Archibald, Bill White, and Charles Johnson — the one who stands out, ironically, is White. Whatever grievous wrongs he has committed, Bill White has never attacked me.

I don’t know why Bill White would attack McCain, since he and McCain are on the same page.

However, in 2008 Bill White did try to track down my home address and the addresses of my family, to post them on overthrow.com and urge his followers to attack me. Physically, not verbally.

Here’s one of the posts at overthrow.com in which Robert Stacy McCain’s friend Bill White explicitly made threats to carry out “actions” against me: Little Green Footballs Little Yellow Cowards:

Commentary — Recently, I’ve received some emails from the website “Little Green Footballs”. I can’t say I’m able to decipher the politics of that website; from reading it, I can’t tell if it is nominally “Republican”, “Democratic”, “conservative” or “liberal”, and I don’t pay enough attention to such things to know what it claims to be. Its actual politis are Jewish, atheist and Bolshevik, but I get a feeling its supporters perceive themselvs as either flag-waving Free Republic-style faggots (flaggots) or some kind of militant Bill Clinton-style liberal. Regardless, they are an angry bunch.

We have begun planning actions against the publishers of several DC area blogs, simply because they are irritating loud mouths, cowards, and people who can easily be smashed not only for our fun and amusement, but for the edification of the general public. Right now, I, personally, am busy planning actions in North Carolina, but its not like these guys are going anywhere, so we have time. I would like to thank, though, the Little Green Footballs commentators for getting so angry as to give me the name of the publisher of that website, so I did not have to work to find it:

Thank you for identifying the name of the publisher of Little Green Footballs for me. That saves time.

As I have explained to others from your site, some retired nitwit who spends his time publishing comments on a website becuase he has nothing to live for is of no interest to me. Our ideal target is someone who is high profile and has a lot going on, both because it generates good press and because they tend to be a lot less brave, out of fear of what they perceive they may lose.

If you can explain why you are important enough that you would make a good target, I would be happy to consider sending someone by. Just forward your address.

Bill White, Commander
American National Socialist Workers Party

Jump to bottom

434 comments
1 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:29:53pm

Hear hear.

2 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:32:10pm

Excellent article, Kejda.

3 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:32:30pm

So how do we rid ourselves of this hateful lunacy?

I am very serious in asking this.

Where is the GOP leadership in stopping this?

Ohhh... they are complicit.

4 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:32:51pm

Bravo Kejda.

5 funky chicken  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:33:11pm

I saw a link to RS McCain at Instapundit a a while ago, accompanied by some kind of "great guy, hardest working man in journalism!" blurb. That was the end of my interest in Instapundit.

How pathetic that people are choosing to thow in with an absolute nut.

6 medaura18586  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:33:29pm

When Instapundit jumped the shark, I realized I have been underestimating the craziness and lack of principles in non-leftist circles by a few orders of magnitude. It's a bitter realization ... and there I thought I could not be disappointed any further.

7 medaura18586  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:34:24pm

Thanks guys, and thanks Charles for the link. It's my pleasure to spell out what should be mother's milk to these grown up men.

8 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:35:43pm

The LGF group on Facebook seems to be turning into a "Charles is a fascist, abortion loving, power hungry, atheist pig!" group. At least by the most recent wall posts there. I'm going to have to drop that group.

9 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:36:01pm

And amazing remarks Kejda

10 Equable  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:36:04pm

Medaura, I just got done reading your article and it was magnificently written; it really set the mental gears turning, as rusty as they can sometimes be.

Hey it's a human thing.

At any rate, congratulations are certainly in order!

11 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:36:19pm

He also freelanced for American Renaissance using a variation of the sock puppet, Burke C. Dabney. Race and Teenage Pregnancy

One might well wonder about indiscriminate anti-natalist propaganda when some groups in the country are already below replacement-level fertility. The “success” of such propaganda only accelerates the decline of the white population. If crusaders against teenage motherhood were serious, they would concentrate on the black and Hispanic girls who account for more than half of teenage births. Targeting whites as part of a general campaign is yet another form of racial suicide.
Burke Dabney is the Internet pen-name of a writer based in Washington, DC.
12 freetoken  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:36:26pm
This is an ongoing disgrace, from which the right wing blogosphere may never recover.

Sad to say, the right-o-sphere may hardly notice.

I say that based on looking at past experiences. For example, how many big name evangelists ran into trouble with sex and money scandals in the 80's and the 90's? Quite a few big names come to mind. Yet that brand of Christianity just kept on doing the same thing, even to this day.

The neo-confederates believe they are still fighting a just cause 144 years after the end of the civil war.

"They" won't stop.

Their beliefs give them meaning in life.

I suspect some fraction of the right-o-sphere to notice, make some comment, and then just go right back to what they were doing before.

13 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:36:46pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

So how do we rid ourselves of this hateful lunacy?

I am very serious in asking this.

Where is the GOP leadership in stopping this?

Ohhh... they are complicit.

the $64 question...and since there really is no GOP leadership, one might presume this stuff is gonna go rampant for a while...

14 jaunte  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:36:47pm
"disastrous self-immolation of Charles Johnson"

This is just an amazing misreading of the truth. Is this projection? Wishful thinking? Just a load of the usual 'don't look at me, look over there' crap?

15 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:37:10pm

re: #8 Mad Al-Jaffee

The LGF group on Facebook seems to be turning into a "Charles is a fascist, abortion loving, power hungry, atheist pig!" group. At least by the most recent wall posts there. I'm going to have to drop that group.

I have nothing to do with that group - I didn't start it, and I don't belong to it. I don't recommend that any LGF reader join it.

16 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:37:26pm

Charles, I might add that RSM linked directly to LGF2, which is a known Charles Johnson stalker/hate site, in discussing recent actions concerning said Johnson involving the banning of some "popular" commenters.

17 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:38:41pm

re: #13 albusteve

and since there really is no GOP leadership,

Sad but true.

18 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:38:48pm

Very nice and well written article, thoughtfully organized.
The only quibble I might have is with the use of the term 'protege ',[sic] in describing The Other's relationship with some of those mentioned.

19 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:39:47pm

re: #7 medaura18586

Thanks guys, and thanks Charles for the link. It's my pleasure to spell out what should be mother's milk to these grown up men.

That was excellent. Don't be surprised if these maniacs start relentlessly attacking you now. They have violent allergic reactions to the truth.

20 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:40:03pm

re: #13 albusteve

the $64 question...and since there really is no GOP leadership, one might presume this stuff is gonna go rampant for a while...

This is what distresses me the most. This would not have been tolerated by Reagan. This should not be tolerated by any of them. They should be speaking out against it, but rather, like craven cyphers, they fan it and bow to it, like some sort of twisted idol.

21 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:40:19pm

re: #15 Charles

I would advise everyone to carefully monitor any Facebook page they associate with, including their own.

22 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:40:41pm

I heart you, Charles.

Seriously. Thanks.

I'd probably be sharpening my pitchfork if not for your sensibility.

Well, probably not, but, thanks again.

23 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:40:56pm

re: #15 Charles

I have nothing to do with that group - I didn't start it, and I don't belong to it. I don't recommend that any LGF reader join it.

I kind of assumed you weren't involved. They have your logo and picture there.

24 McSpiff  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:41:31pm

All around great post. I realize that the truth isn't some sort of popularity contest, but I fully back everything stated, and am proud to be a member of this site.

25 Achilles Tang  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:43:47pm

re: #23 Mad Al-Jaffee

I kind of assumed you weren't involved. They have your logo and picture there.

Is that allowed by Facebook, if one objects?

26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:43:47pm

re: #21 tradewind

I would advise everyone to carefully monitor any Facebook page they associate with, including their own.

Removed myself from the page in two clicks.

Hell, I joined it... never went back. So, why stay?

"I've gooot... youuu baaabe..."

27 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:44:10pm

I once read, "If you don't tell lies, you don't need a good memory" and I guess a variation of that would be, "If you don't write racist screeds using a pen name, you don't need to worry about the Google cache"

28 medaura18586  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:44:11pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

So how do we rid ourselves of this hateful lunacy?

I am very serious in asking this.

Where is the GOP leadership in stopping this?

Ohhh... they are complicit.

Nothing, and I mean, nothing of consequence will be achieved until the SoCons and religious supremacists are rooted out. That much I figured out long ago, and spelled it out in this article--my writing skills then were not as tight, but I think the points are still valid, actually more so than ever. You don't have to be an atheist to agree with me that religion doesn't belong it political circles. And when I wrote that article, I wasn't even aware of how much bigotry lurked under the skins I was scratching. I was speaking from a strictly strategic perspective.

Unless Conservatism reverts back to classical liberalism--distinguished from paleo-conservatism--it just has no future. Not in this country, not with our demographics, not given the American Zeitgeist. Any Conservative too scared or hateful to embrace that shift will wither away...

/my two cents

29 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:44:24pm
30 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:45:29pm

Also note that if anyone wants to take umbrage with Charles or Kedja referring to RSM as a Neo Confederate, you need to understand that other Neo confederates call him that.

WARNING: Link to ODIOUS hate site cache below.

[Link: 74.125.155.132...]

31 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:45:29pm

re: #28 medaura18586

Nothing, and I mean, nothing of consequence will be achieved until the SoCons and religious supremacists are rooted out. That much I figured out long ago, and spelled it out in this article--my writing skills then were not as tight, but I think the points are still valid, actually more so than ever. You don't have to be an atheist to agree with me that religion doesn't belong it political circles. And when I wrote that article, I wasn't even aware of how much bigotry lurked under the skins I was scratching. I was speaking from a strictly strategic perspective.

Unless Conservatism reverts back to classical liberalism--distinguished from paleo-conservatism--it just has no future. Not in this country, not with our demographics, not given the American Zeitgeist. Any Conservative too scared or hateful to embrace that shift will wither away...

/my two cents

I could not agree more.

The flip side is if this insanity takes further root, it will lead to violence.

32 medaura18586  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:45:32pm

re: #19 ArchangelMichael

That was excellent. Don't be surprised if these maniacs start relentlessly attacking you now. They have violent allergic reactions to the truth.

Uh, they've done so already. Multiple times. Since I started going after Robert Spencer -- and I was even ahead of Charles on that front. Google medaura or Kejda, my real name. I could give a dry fig about their blow-hard seething...

33 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:46:11pm

re: #25 Naso Tang

Is that allowed by Facebook, if one objects?

You're not supposed to post anything that's copyrighted, but people do it all the time. A bunch of my profile photos are images I downloaded from the web and posted there.

34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:47:34pm

re: #33 Mad Al-Jaffee

I'm guessing they wait on the owner of the copyright to object.

35 Cato the Elder  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:47:43pm

Congratulations, Kejda!

36 McSpiff  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:48:10pm

re: #29 MikeySDCA

Well put, and fully agreed. If I've learned anything here, it's that I need to be more careful with my language sometimes.

37 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:48:35pm

re: #34 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm guessing they wait on the owner of the copyright to object.

Technically, that preserves their rights under the DMCA if they do so. If they start policing content, they lose their safe harbor provision - similar to an ISP and common carrier status.

38 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:49:03pm

re: #30 Thanos

The neoConfederate concept is new to me. I'm still digesting it.

39 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:50:12pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

The neoConfederate concept is new to me. I'm still digesting it.

Abe Lincoln was a traitor! Think Sam Francis and Joe Sobran.

40 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:50:50pm

Here's Instapundit denouncing neo-Confederates in 2005.

Now he's praising them.

41 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:51:21pm
42 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:51:53pm

And another asshole heard from.

43 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:52:10pm

re: #39 Mich-again

Paulians hate Abe. That reminds me that Instapundit also linked to an article not too long ago likening Obama to Lincoln as a slur. Makes my brain hurt.

44 medaura18586  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:52:16pm

re: #42 Charles

anonymous assholes galore!

45 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:52:26pm

re: #40 Charles

Here's Instapundit denouncing neo-Confederates in 2005.

Now he's praising them.

So much for principles.

46 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:52:35pm

re: #42 Charles

And another asshole heard from.

"We've Got Mail!: Anonymous Asstart Edition"?

47 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:52:39pm

re: #40 Charles

Now he's praising them.

Drinking the Tea.

48 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:53:00pm

re: #42 Charles

Class of 2004 rears its ugly head, yet again.

49 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:53:18pm

OT - it seems like certain celebrity death stories will never stopped being covered. Now it's more about Anna Nicole Smith. Which probably means Michael Jackson developments will be breaking news for at least ten more years.

50 jaunte  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:54:42pm

re: #45 Gus 802

So much for principles.

"One suspects that for a certain sort of infantile mind, pro-Confederacy statements provide the same sort of thrilling sense of nonconformity that Marxism has provided."
-- Glenn Reynolds

Heh. Indeed.

51 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:55:14pm

re: #48 Bagua

Class of 2004 rears its ugly head, yet again.

I'm from the class of 2004. Rathergate Drudge wave.

52 swamprat  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:55:25pm

What McCain has responded with are long-winded heaps of nothingness, shot through the ether in rapid succession. Does he ever address the direct quotes and facts Charles has laid out? No. Here is an example of what he does instead...

Has anyone ever seen fjordman and robert stacy mccain in the same room?

53 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:56:44pm
54 medaura18586  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:56:49pm

re: #40 Charles

Here's Instapundit denouncing neo-Confederates in 2005.

Now he's praising them.

The only way I could excuse his behavior is if he has not been reading McCain's diatribes in full, or your sources exposing him. In which case, he should refrain from weighing in on the debate.

But I have noticed that McCain deliberately goes on crazy verbose tangents. His prose is fluffy, floral, "cutesy" garbage, that can get very tiring after the first few paragraphs. He tries to be so dull and overbearing, that when you're done reading him, you don't remember the gist of what has been said. It's a deliberate tactic, to make it harder to assess the truth of any claim. When done reading, readers feel debilitated. It's Orwellian and sick... and a tell-tale sign that you are dealing with a dishonest writer. I hope against hope that Instapundit links to him without reading him... but I know I am kidding myself.

55 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:56:51pm

re: #52 swamprat

I'll go one better- has anyone seen Pam Gellar and Fran Drescher in the same room?

56 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:56:57pm

re: #51 Mich-again

I'm from the class of 2004. Rathergate Drudge wave.

Yes, tis a Hydra of many variations.

57 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:57:15pm

Hey I just figured out tonight marks my 5th anniversary here. Thanks Charles for letting me hang out here all this time.

58 freetoken  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:57:32pm

Just did a quick survey courtesy of Google, of this blog-o-sphere tug of war, and I must say it is getting some wide play out there.

Now, I don't read many blogs, and hardly any right-o-sphere blogs, so I am not that versed on what goes on.

Yet when I look over links to blogs of which I had no idea existed, and see all the commotion over this expose on RSM's past, I begin to wonder how this will all end.

There are some out there who are crying loudly about this all being about "anti-Southern sentiment" and such.

The "long summer" is now over - it is fall. I'm beginning to think we should name it Free-For-All Fall.

59 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:59:02pm

re: #58 freetoken

Yet when I look over links to blogs of which I had no idea existed, and see all the commotion over this expose on RSM's past, I begin to wonder how this will all end.

You can never go wrong sticking by your principles.

60 swamprat  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 8:59:08pm

re: #55 Fenway_Nation

I'll go one better- has anyone seen Pam Gellar and Fran Drescher in the same room?

Titillating implication.

61 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:00:08pm

re: #59 Mich-again

You can never go wrong sticking by your principles.

exactly right

62 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:00:28pm

re: #58 freetoken

Just did a quick survey courtesy of Google, of this blog-o-sphere tug of war, and I must say it is getting some wide play out there.

Now, I don't read many blogs, and hardly any right-o-sphere blogs, so I am not that versed on what goes on.

Yet when I look over links to blogs of which I had no idea existed, and see all the commotion over this expose on RSM's past, I begin to wonder how this will all end.

There are some out there who are crying loudly about this all being about "anti-Southern sentiment" and such.

The "long summer" is now over - it is fall. I'm beginning to think we should name it Free-For-All Fall.

I've come across that pathetic meme as well. I then have to ask, does Robert Stacy McCain represent the New South? Do Neo-Confederates represent the New South? I doubt that the answer would be yes.

63 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:01:09pm

re: #51 Mich-again

Me too. What was that ' ugly head' thing?

64 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:01:44pm

re: #63 tradewind

Me too. What was that ' ugly head' thing?

you got bad hair?

65 reine.de.tout  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:01:52pm

re: #62 Gus 802

I've come across that pathetic meme as well. I then have to ask, does Robert Stacy McCain represent the New South? Do Neo-Confederates represent the New South? I doubt that the answer would be yes.

For this Southern gal, the answer is NO. In caps and bold.

66 jaunte  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:03:31pm

re: #62 Gus 802

He's just another pathetic groper-for-power trying to build up some feelings of victimization in the people he wants to 'lead.'

67 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:03:35pm

re: #63 tradewind

Me too. What was that ' ugly head' thing?

There seem to be a large number of flouncers who joined in 2004, made very few comments, and then have emerged to flounce angrily in recent weeks.

68 Pawn of the Oppressor  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:03:45pm

Neo-Confederates... fckin' a.

It's bad enough that such people exist. It's worse that anybody pays any attention to them. Even worse than that, people are paying attention to them and agreeing.

Sometimes I'm not sure what century we're actually living in.

69 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:03:53pm

re: #65 reine.de.tout

For this Southern gal, the answer is NO. In caps and bold.

Thank you!

I think it would be an insult to inject of a notion of "Southerness" to the discredited Robert Stacy McCain. It is merely a feeble attempt to poison the well.

70 freetoken  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:06:45pm

re: #62 Gus 802

Well, about the neo-confederates of the neo-south with their neo-history of all things pertaining to the USA... I think I'll change my terminology from right-o-sphere to ugly-o-sphere, given what I am reading.

71 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:07:07pm
72 McSpiff  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:07:44pm

Totally OT, but I'm assuming many here read articles from across the net. This tool I found today (just a special bookmark) helps you defeat broken or painful layouts. I'm using it set to ebook - large - wide and its been great so far. Readability, by arc90

73 freetoken  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:07:49pm

Of all the places I am looking at the web on this topic, RSM just isn't owning up to all he has written and said. Many bloggers are playing dumb about RSM's history at posting at certain sites.

74 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:07:54pm

Two lovely quotes from former lizards at the village of the banned...

I consider it worth while to take a look over there now and again and see what the crazy is saying. I have a place where I am going with this.

does anyone know if CJ has been purging Jews in particular from LGF? Is it simply a matter of time before the other shoe drops and CJ reveals that he’s now a big fan of the Arabs who call themselves “Palestinians”?

As CJ is a leftist now, the Jewish National Homeland has got to be bugging him on some level. I’m just wondering where he’s headed with all this (since he doesn’t seem to have hit bottom yet).

And I am apparently your pet Jew.

LVQ is sorta a court clown. He’ll be kept around.

Yeah... they are very concerned about racism. The point of bringing this stuff here is to say, Charles, you were right all along. These types are precisely what needs to be scrapped from the right.

When I ask where sane conservative leadership is these days, it seems to me, that the largest publicly vocal conservative who is actively taking a stand is you. Of course, what used to be a conservative no longer applies as a label to most who now claim it. They don't count you as one anymore.

To sane people, they of course, were never conservatives to begin with. I am very proud that you are not in their ranks.

Be ready for a meme that you love Jihad.

So says your jester - who after all, was a wise character in Lear.

75 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:08:38pm
76 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:08:51pm

re: #62 Gus 802

This whole South-as-racism-central thing is beyond stupid, especially when if you look into it, the most virulent hotbeds of racism today appear to be headquartered in the Midwest with some really weird outposts in the Mountain NW.
And believing that less than loving feelings towards TOTUS stem from latent... or not so...racist motives ignores the fact that the group that is abandoning Obama's ship the fastest is that of independent , a group responsible for his election. It's not as if one morning since last November they woke up and had bigotry for breakfast.

77 funky chicken  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:09:00pm

fun little OT article:

Then They Came for the Fresca
The growing ambitions of the food police.
By William Saletan
Posted Tuesday, Sept. 22, 2009, at 11:23 AM ET
A nonalcoholic sequel to the Whiskey Rebellion seems to be brewing. And Slate may be joining it. I'll call it the Fresca Rebellion, in honor of our editor, David Plotz, a hard-core addict of the citrus-flavored soft drink.
For a long time, the only discernible libertarian around here was Jack Shafer, a man unable to wean himself from speech, guns, and other annoying constitutional amendments. But lately, other folks seem to be getting a bit Ayn Randy. On Saturday, Jacob Weisberg blew the whistle on New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg for trying to ban outdoor smoking in public parks ("First They Came for the Marlboros"). Yesterday, Daniel Engber went after the hypocrisy and overreaching of soda-tax advocates. And I've become such a knee-jerk defender of burgers and fries that I'm tempted to seek funding from the Competitive Enterprise Institute.

What's going on here? Most of us used to be good liberals. Are we getting conservative in our old age?
I'd say it's the opposite. We're what we were five or 10 years ago: skeptics and fact-mongers with a bias for personal freedom. It's the left that's turning conservative. Well, not conservative, but pushy. Weisberg put his finger on the underlying trend: "Because Democrats hold power at the moment, they face the greater peril of paternalistic overreaching." Today's morality cops are less interested in your bedroom than your refrigerator.

There really do seem to be lots of folks feeling like their political associates have gone nuts.

[Link: www.slate.com...]

78 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:09:12pm

surfing and reading the links...this is an awsome post, maybe the best ever with regard to the subject...very well done Kejda and Charles

79 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:09:51pm

re: #64 albusteve

you got bad hair?

Ha. I wish.

80 apaulogist  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:09:55pm

i haven't been reading this blog (or any other) too much lately, but after checking it just now i'm glad to see that Charles is pointing out all of the big problems i have with the R party these days: theocracy, racism, environmental naivete, paranoia, etc. It's funny that just glancing at the current front-page stories, I would have guessed that this was a Dem blog because of all the Rep-bashing. lol. Anyway, keep up the good work. I'd love to live in a nation where people are rational and moderate enough to engage each other in dialogue. If no Republican leader comes out strongly for moderation and rationality, I'm going to be pretty tempted to vote for obama in 2012.

81 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:11:09pm

re: #79 Mich-again

Ha. I wish.

let me grab my RayBans

82 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:11:34pm

re: #67 Bagua

Oh. That would lead you to think that probably they had not been here, but had been hanging out at the LGF-bashing sites and returned only when they saw the piling onto of Charles by some of those joints.
No loss.

83 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:12:20pm

re: #74 LudwigVanQuixote

LVQ is sorta a court clown. He’ll be kept around.

Damn those stalkers... once again you get all the praise and my hard work goes unrecognized.

84 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:12:27pm

re: #70 freetoken

Well, about the neo-confederates of the neo-south with their neo-history of all things pertaining to the USA... I think I'll change my terminology from right-o-sphere to ugly-o-sphere, given what I am reading.

They also know who they're lying in bed with. Glenn Reynolds is clearly aware of Robert Stacy McCains's stance having denounced "neo-Confederate sentiment" Others such as PJ Media, Hot Air, et al have also joined in alliance with this sympathizer. Putting this in context with the current administration one can only assume that there will be serious consequences to said blogs and one that they will deserve.

85 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:13:35pm

re: #82 tradewind

Oh. That would lead you to think that probably they had not been here, but had been hanging out at the LGF-bashing sites and returned only when they saw the piling onto of Charles by some of those joints.
No loss.

Quite concur, they shall not be missed by me.

86 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:14:47pm

M Steele must be stunned if he's following any of this...hey Mike, what's your take on RSM?

87 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:15:15pm

re: #83 Bagua

Damn those stalkers... once again you get all the praise and my hard work goes unrecognized.

I'm sorry buddy, while you have occasionally been pedantic with me, you still end up being pretty likable.

You just haven't raised the bar to psychotic, paranoid delusional, hate filled crazy.

88 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:15:27pm

re: #71 Sharmuta

More on American Renaissance:

In the world of 'academic racism,' four groups play leading roles.

You'll note the Pioneer Fund is listed as one of the 4 groups. More on the Pioneer Fund:

A controversial minor grantee is the paleoconservative and white nationalist journalist Jared Taylor, the editor of American Renaissance and a member the advisory board of the white nationalist publication the Occidental Quarterly. Many of the key academic white nationalists in both Right Now! and American Renaissance have been funded by the Pioneer and the Pioneer was directly involved in funding the parent organization of American Renaissance, the New Century Foundation.

89 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:16:25pm

re: #86 albusteve
It's quite possible he has no idea who he (RSM) is.
I know I didn't.

90 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:17:15pm

re: #87 LudwigVanQuixote

I'm sorry buddy, while you have occasionally been pedantic with me, you still end up being pretty likable.

You just haven't raised the bar to psychotic, paranoid delusional, hate filled crazy.

Must try harder...

91 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:17:36pm

re: #89 tradewind

It's quite possible he has no idea who he (RSM) is.
I know I didn't.

he does now...I'd bet a dime to a dollar he reads this blog...in fact I'd wager all the players do

92 freetoken  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:18:21pm

re: #84 Gus 802

The reality that they are trying to deny is that their social-political views are indeed the outcast among the general American populace.

"Populism" is a strange term, for it seems to imply some sort of official majority, when in the case of people like Glenn Beck all it means is "mob-ism."

I suspect it is the same with RSM and all of his supporters on what we label as the far-right. There is a substantial, but not majority, number of Americans who will agree with them on a subset of their beliefs. Yet when it comes to supporting the principles of the Confederacy and the like I think that RSM, HA, MM, and the like would find a great number of Americans will shun them.

This they know, I suspect.

93 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:18:53pm

re: #87 LudwigVanQuixote

BTW, my quip meant that I wasn't getting recognition as a clown.

94 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:19:13pm

re: #82 tradewind

Wonder how many more would've shown up if they hadn't forgotten their screen name and/or password.

95 Athos  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:20:50pm

re: #75 MightySkip

I am incredibly disappointed in those whom I thought were cogent and wise pontificators / observers / spokespeople for conservatives. I am seeing sites and writers who I had little problem with - absolutely self-destruct in their embracing of the 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' canard.

They proclaim to stand on values - yet those values seem to be so flexible that they cannot speak out against those who they condemned years ago, they cannot speak out against those who obviously and clearly hold values and principles that should run counter to anyone with common sense, and they have to attack those who are shining a light on their mistakes as opposed to admitting them and correcting themselves. And we thought the left had the monopoly on hubris.

Perhaps it is the lack of a real leader to galvanize and organize the conservative movement. Or perhaps it is the reaction to middle America (not the left) soundly rejecting the GOP which hasn't really embraced real conservative principles since Reagan.

On the basis of a need to regain former stature, too many of us are permitting the fringe elements, those Birchers, Paulians, Beckians, Neo-Confederates, and religious fundamentalists who were delegated to the fringe decades ago, back into the mainstream because they also oppose the policies of the current administration. It is as if WFB and those who fought to cleanse the party decades ago decided to overlook the whackos simply because they and we shared a hatred of communism.

We will lose all of our ability to reach and influence the core middle of the electorate if we sacrifice our core values, principles, ethics, and character in order to look the other way towards racists, white nationalists / supremacists, and fanatical religious fundamentalists who differ very little from the muslim fundamentalists. This is a fight of good and evil and we cannot mortgage our souls in to partner with these people without damning our souls. Either we have values and principles or we do not.

As much as it is easier to go with the flow - this is a flow that we cannot just look the other way or try to deny that these fringe elements are fundamentally wrong in their positions and beliefs. They stand not for the core values of this country - but against those values.

I will not make a deal with the devil for this or any fight. I would rather stay true to myself and lose than help them win and end up marginalized and without my values.

96 medaura18586  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:21:29pm

The usual paranoid conspirators are commenting on my site. Killgore is already involved...

97 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:22:31pm

This my standing answer to neo-Confederates:

98 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:23:04pm

re: #94 Fenway_Nation

Wonder how many more would've shown up if they hadn't forgotten their screen name and/or password.

I was wondering about that too, apparently they abuse the "forgotten password" device.

99 medaura18586  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:23:13pm

re: #96 medaura18586

You see, it's all a big conspiracy. I know things... stuff... explosive stuff... but, you know, I pretend not to,.. err, because,... I am applying the art of war to this blog war...

100 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:23:21pm

re: #93 Bagua

BTW, my quip meant that I wasn't getting recognition as a clown.

I just figured that out! I guess I get to be the clown again...

But I really love the allusion that as Charles begins to purge Jews, I will be kept around. Given the former lizards who I am ashamed to day are Jewish, they knew full well what they meant. The metaphor is of the most pronounced insult.

However, this is not really about me. I am at best amused by them, though deeply saddened at the Jewish ones, who should know better, particularly at this time of year.

The fact is that they really are gearing up to accuse Charles of being a Jihadi sympathizer. That is the point.

101 sngnsgt  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:23:23pm

re: #72 McSpiff

That's cool, thanks for the link.

102 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:23:41pm

re: #89 tradewind

It's quite possible he has no idea who he (RSM) is.
I know I didn't.

If he isn't following any of this, he shouldn't be leading the party. As it is, his silence amidst all the craziness is enough evidence for me that he isn't much of a leader. I might add that I have only ever pulled the straight ticket GOP lever since 1982 without wavering but that tradition is in serious jeopardy right now. I wouldn't have imagined that was a possibility even a few months ago.

103 Lawrior  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:24:13pm

re: #100 LudwigVanQuixote


The fact is that they really are gearing up to accuse Charles of being a Jihadi sympathizer. That is the point.

He isn't?
///

104 Athos  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:24:46pm

re: #76 tradewind

Very true -the bigotry did not start January 21, 2009. With the other McCain and his ilk of the fringe, the neo-confederates, the von Mises Institute and their links to Paul, the Birchers - these people have embraced bigotry for a long period of time.

Their bigotry rightfully had them consigned to the far right fringe of politics - and there is no reason why we need this 10-15% of the electorate when we can remain true to our values and cogently present to the 40% of the independents / center in this country and recruit from them to regain political power.

105 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:24:56pm

re: #92 freetoken

The reality that they are trying to deny is that their social-political views are indeed the outcast among the general American populace.

"Populism" is a strange term, for it seems to imply some sort of official majority, when in the case of people like Glenn Beck all it means is "mob-ism."

I suspect it is the same with RSM and all of his supporters on what we label as the far-right. There is a substantial, but not majority, number of Americans who will agree with them on a subset of their beliefs. Yet when it comes to supporting the principles of the Confederacy and the like I think that RSM, HA, MM, and the like would find a great number of Americans will shun them.

This they know, I suspect.

In a way then RSM, HA, MM, PJM are all widening their lower percentile readership while losing their upper percentile readership. One would not knowingly be a part of a blog that even appear to play the role of an apologist for things such as these.

The same as you mention regarding populism, Glenn Beck, et al. That too has managed to attract a large number of fringe groups into the political dialogue and one that the GOP seems happy to accept given that I have seen or hear not official rhetoric to the contrary. In fact I have only seen the reverse.

106 medaura18586  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:24:58pm

re: #30 Thanos

Also note that if anyone wants to take umbrage with Charles or Kedja referring to RSM as a Neo Confederate, you need to understand that other Neo confederates call him that.

WARNING: Link to ODIOUS hate site cache below.

[Link: 74.125.155.132...]

Yeah, they recognize each-other, alright. But you are transposing the consonants in my name again. It happens all the time.

/sigh...

I'm considering changing my name to Kayda.

107 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:25:59pm

re: #100 LudwigVanQuixote

Yea, hard to make much sense about that fetid bunch, best left for those who specialise in Abnormal Psychology, we have other fish to fry.

108 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:27:43pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

/Let's not go back there/

109 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:27:51pm

re: #107 Bagua

Yea, hard to make much sense about that fetid bunch, best left for those who specialise in Abnormal Psychology, we have other fish to fry.

Well except that I have found that group to be an interesting canary group. The latest and craziest of the crazy filters down there and gets distilled. Reading their comments is a quick heads up on the sick that is out there and what is coming round the pike.

110 BignJames  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:27:55pm

Any flouncings, bannings today?

111 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:29:28pm

re: #110 BignJames


From what I've seen, just some of the 'Registered in 2004-2005, posted less than a dozen comments and *poof*!' variety.

112 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:29:45pm

re: #110 BignJames

Any flouncings, bannings today?

Does the sun rise in the east?

113 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:30:09pm

re: #109 LudwigVanQuixote

Sharmuta made a very pertinent observation last night:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

As did Iceweasel:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

114 BignJames  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:30:25pm

re: #111 Fenway_Nation

From what I've seen, just some of the 'Registered in 2004-2005, posted less than a dozen comments and *poof*!' variety.


Waiting for "Their Moment"?

115 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:32:08pm

re: #90 Bagua

Must try harder...

Also let me, let you in on a secret - many of the ones I give the strongest flak to - and that you chide me for giving that flack too, are the ones who end up there... I sort of know that in advance by what they are writing.

You might notice that someone like Fat Bastard or You or a bunch of others can give me hell and I give it right back but still like them.

The ones who are spouting the crazy lines and the talking points that you see there again and again go straight to the odious idiot treatment.

116 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:32:50pm

re: #102 Mich-again

hey hey
ho ho
Micheal Steele has got to go!

Chairman of the GOP...he's a bust

117 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:32:52pm

re: #113 Bagua

Sharmuta made a very pertinent observation last night:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

As did Iceweasel:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

They are both right on.

118 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:32:52pm

re: #111 Fenway_Nation

From what I've seen, just some of the 'Registered in 2004-2005, posted less than a dozen comments and *poof*!' variety.

Yes, I made a "class of 2004 rears its ugly head" observation above.

(No, not the entire class, just the nitwits)

119 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:32:57pm

re: #108 tradewind

/Let's not go back there/

I don't want go back there either. But I'm a dyed-in-the-blue-wool-Yankee, and I get irritated all the Lost Cause BS Neo-Confederates put out. So I answer them with a song glorifying the Union and General Sherman. My point is pay tribute to the brilliant general and brave soldiers who fought so hard to end the vile system that men like Robert Stacy McCain defend. And to give racists the finger.

120 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:33:32pm

re: #113 Bagua

From Iceweasel..

There's something very weird about the people who can't move on.

True that.

121 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:34:16pm
122 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:34:45pm

re: #117 LudwigVanQuixote

They are both right on.

Yup, and I personally can't be asked to observe them directly just as I don't use my time to instruct children.

123 Ghazicide  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:35:34pm

They're acting guilty Charles.

124 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:36:04pm

re: #102 Mich-again

I haven't voted a straight ticket in, I guess, forever. Our local elections often feature little-d-democrats that you want to see elected. Not , however, on a national level.
Maybe I'm naive, but I have no fear that any of the crazies will be nominated as the GOP presidential nominee. Things have a way of rising to the top.
I wouldn't be surprised to see Petraeus, for example, get into the primary in '12.

125 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:36:11pm

re: #39 Mich-again

Abe Lincoln was a traitor! Think Sam Francis and Joe Sobran.

A traitor to what?

126 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:36:30pm

re: #118 Bagua

Hey...hang on a sec...

I'm class of 2004.

/Jury's still out on that other thing.

127 BignJames  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:36:44pm

re: #121 FamHistoryGuy

Praise for the war crimes of Grant and Sherman?


Huh?

128 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:36:58pm
129 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:37:44pm

re: #124 tradewind

Too bad General Honore isn't interested in running for office. The press conferences alone would rake in a bundle on pay-per-view.

130 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:37:53pm

re: #126 Fenway_Nation

Hey...hang on a sec...

I'm class of 2004.

/Jury's still out on that other thing.

please step over there and remove your shoes--->

131 Equable  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:38:58pm

My name is Equable and I'm class of 2004. And I am a complete dolt. I like it that way.

132 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:39:12pm

re: #115 LudwigVanQuixote

Interesting point, nor do I suffer fools lightly either, however, I believe is it crucial to hold to higher standards, otherwise we jeapodise our moral authority.

133 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:39:15pm

Although I am a frequent poster here, they tend to leave me alone. The last time one of those nimrods decided to make me his cause du jour, I went over to his blog, and over the space of two days, tore him such a capacious new asshole that his own regular commenters were applauding me. I left the poor pathetic loser plaintively begging me to stay.

134 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:39:29pm

re: #128 MikeySDCA

With all due respect, he's brilliant. The only high-ranking Republican with the guts to call Bambi a four-flusher and a lame, albeit not in quite those words.

I don't care if he's brilliant or not and Bambi is not his problem right now...he needs to express some leadership like yesterday

135 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:39:32pm

re: #55 Fenway_Nation

I'll go one better- has anyone seen Pam Gellar and Fran Drescher in the same room?

Please don't insult Fran like that.

136 medaura18586  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:39:37pm

Anyone who knows anything about Kilgore going on a racist rampage at HotAir, I'd be grateful if you elucidated on my blog. The comments are pouring in about it... And I don't know WTF they're all talking about.

If you do, your comments may not appear until morning because I'm going to bed now and moderation will have to wait till morning.

Thanks and goodnight, all.

137 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:40:40pm

re: #136 medaura18586

Anyone who knows anything about Kilgore going on a racist rampage at HotAir, I'd be grateful if you elucidated on my blog. The comments are pouring in about it... And I don't know WTF they're all talking about.

If you do, your comments may not appear until morning because I'm going to bed now and moderation will have to wait till morning.

Thanks and goodnight, all.

Killgore got very pissed off one night at the open racism being posted in Hot Air's comments (calling Michelle Obama a "wookie," "sasquatch," etc. ad nauseam) and decided to see how far he could push it without being deleted. He posted a bunch of deliberately racist comments, to rub it in their faces.

I had absolutely nothing to do with it, and if he'd asked me before he did it I would have advised him not to.

I also emailed Allahpundit and told him this. He said nothing publicly and just let his readers continue believing it was my idea.

138 Flavia  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:40:50pm

Congratulations, Charles - in my own small way, I've been defined by the bigots who hate me, too :-)

139 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:42:17pm

re: #133 Salamantis

Although I am a frequent poster here, they tend to leave me alone. The last time one of those nimrods decided to make me his cause du jour, I went over to his blog, and over the space of two days, tore him such a capacious new asshole that his own regular commenters were applauding me. I left the poor pathetic loser plaintively begging me to stay.

Well, done!

What's a guy got to do to get stalked around here anyway... I gets no respect I tell ya.

140 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:43:07pm

re: #121 FamHistoryGuy

Adios, Johnny Reb.

141 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:43:10pm
142 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:43:30pm

re: #119 Dark_Falcon

One word: pyromaniac.
The hatred for Sherman that persists in the South has less to do with the outcome of the war and more to do with the way it was done. The pointless destruction of property was unnecessary and ... excessive. Even Grant finally said ' stop it, you idiot'.

143 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:43:55pm

re: #58 freetoken

Just did a quick survey courtesy of Google, of this blog-o-sphere tug of war, and I must say it is getting some wide play out there.

Now, I don't read many blogs, and hardly any right-o-sphere blogs, so I am not that versed on what goes on.

Yet when I look over links to blogs of which I had no idea existed, and see all the commotion over this expose on RSM's past, I begin to wonder how this will all end.

There are some out there who are crying loudly about this all being about "anti-Southern sentiment" and such.

The "long summer" is now over - it is fall. I'm beginning to think we should name it Free-For-All Fall.

Can anyone criticize McCain without being accused of anti-Southernism? I'm just asking because it seems like if you object to anything he's doing, the conservative media will brand you as being anti-Southern. McCain's friends just pull out the anti-Southern card off the bottom of the deck any time anyone says anything critical about him...

///seems I may have heard this song before...

144 Equable  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:44:38pm

re: #139 Bagua

I have a another nickname which I use on different message boards, a couple of which I cause absolute terror on. One message board's denizens gave me the label of "legendary flamer", which I donned both proudly and hesitantly - for obvious reasons.

145 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:45:04pm

re: #125 SanFranciscoZionist

A traitor to what?

They think he was a traitor to the Constitution.

146 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:45:59pm

re: #144 Equable


I knew it was you... grrr!

147 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:46:05pm

re: #141 MikeySDCA

Are you sure that the GOP needs a civil war with all the other problems we have, both as a party and a nation? I'm inclined to let the loonies go f*** themselves, while the grown-up worry about Iran and such. I may be wrong.

civil war?...well in this context I guess it's time for a civil war within the GOP

148 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:46:17pm
149 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:46:44pm

And by the way -- please note that Killgore Trout is NOT a racist, and his comments were deliberately over the line to make a point.

The point was that the comments at Hot Air were absolutely FULL of open, unabashed racism ... and nobody was doing anything to stop it. Nobody was even disapproving of it.

I don't approve of his method, but he had a point. A DAMNED good point. And it was only after he pushed the limit that Hot Air started to do anything at all to stop the rampaging bigotry of their commenters.

150 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:47:02pm

re: #89 tradewind

It's quite possible he has no idea who he (RSM) is.
I know I didn't.

I had sure never heard of the man until this flap came along.

151 wee fury  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:47:25pm

FamHistGuy must be a genealogist.
Most likely not a very good one.

152 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:48:03pm

re: #142 tradewind

One word: pyromaniac.
The hatred for Sherman that persists in the South has less to do with the outcome of the war and more to do with the way it was done. The pointless destruction of property was unnecessary and ... excessive. Even Grant finally said ' stop it, you idiot'.

I'm not sure it was all unnecessary. The South had to be made to see that continuing the war meant ruin. Sherman made them see that. And he was right to target the South's ability to wage war rather than its armies. Still, you are correct about the rage he created in the South.

153 Mich-again  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:48:13pm

re: #124 tradewind

I wouldn't be surprised to see Petraeus, for example, get into the primary in '12.

I would prefer him to the cast of retreads from the 2008 primaries.

154 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:49:39pm

re: #142 tradewind

One word: pyromaniac.
The hatred for Sherman that persists in the South has less to do with the outcome of the war and more to do with the way it was done. The pointless destruction of property was unnecessary and ... excessive. Even Grant finally said ' stop it, you idiot'.

agreed...Sherman went overboard, but the decision to pillage to feed his troops was ultimately Grants...way too many troops involved to prevent atrocities...but even so years later Sherman trashed the Sioux using the same tactics

155 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:51:27pm
156 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:52:20pm

re: #145 Mich-again

They think he was a traitor to the Constitution.

Oh.

Well.

Well, they can kiss my ass.

157 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:54:48pm

re: #152 Dark_Falcon

I'm not sure it was all unnecessary. The South had to be made to see that continuing the war meant ruin. Sherman made them see that. And he was right to target the South's ability to wage war rather than its armies. Still, you are correct about the rage he created in the South.

Sherman's March to the Sea is a textbook example of "total war", American style. As a Southerner, it doesn't bother me because it, along with the Union victories on battlefields such as Shiloh (which I've visited many times), brought the Civil War to an end, the former Confederate states back into the Union, and marked the end of slavery in America.

158 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:54:50pm

re: #149 Charles

And by the way -- please note that Killgore Trout is NOT a racist, and his comments were deliberately over the line to make a point.

The point was that the comments at Hot Air were absolutely FULL of open, unabashed racism ... and nobody was doing anything to stop it.

I don't approve of his method, but he had a point. A DAMNED good point. And it was only after he pushed it like that that Hot Air started to do anything at all to stop the rampaging bigotry of their commenters.

BTW, looks like Allaphpundit and Ed Morrissey are allowing them to spread that false "Paypal" rumor in the comments over in the Green Room.

159 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:55:12pm

re: #155 MikeySDCA

derives from te fact that they lost. Or perhaps I should say "we" (ancestor CSA at Shiloh.)

I only recently discovered that I had ancestors in the States pre-1890s. I wonder if any of them were Confederate supporters. Be interesting to find out.

Only reference I can find in the period is a throw-away line that one branch of the family moved at one point because they didn't want to raise the kids in a slave state.

I'm thinking about trying to join the DAR, mostly because it seems incredibly funny.

160 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:55:51pm

Also, for the record, anyone, who says anything to defend the American institution of slavery for any reason is no different to me than anyone who defends Hitler for any reason.

The thing that saddens me the most about those few of the Tribe who are turning a blind eye to this is that we have direct understanding of what that kind of hatred and bigotry does. We have to know better. If we have any lesson at all to take from it, we have to mean Never Again when we say it.

Never includes all people all the time.

There is never any excuse at all for saying such things.

It can not be explained away as sarcasm. It can not be explained away with spin. A sane person who understands the history - as in just how terrible slavery was here, or just how terrible any atrocity, like the Holocaust, or the Rape of Nanking or the Killing fields were, would never ever speak about such things except in the most serious and respectful tones.

Those who say such things are so wrong on so many levels. At best they are utterly callous and ignorant enough that they truly have no clue about the harm contained in their words. At worst, they are nothing more or less than monsters who approve of such things or turn a blind eye when they happen.

Darfur is still going on BTW.

I am so very tired and very saddened by the fact that these views are once again raising up in America. I was always taught and always believed that what made this nation great, was the core belief that all are created equal.

Of course, the so called neo confederates want to secede from such a view. We must be clear that they, and those like them, are enemies of all we stand for.

161 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:56:04pm

re: #158 Gus 802

BTW, looks like Allaphpundit and Ed Morrissey are allowing them to spread that false "Paypal" rumor in the comments over in the Green Room.

That's fine, I don't care. They'll get nowhere with that BS, and they know it. It's a pure smear made up out of thin air.

162 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:56:12pm

The Rebel forces were being supported by the populace. Grant rudely kicked that buttressing scaffolding out from under them, and they quickly folded and fell.

Brutal, yes. Cruel, yes. But undeniably effective. Just like Black Jack Pershing was in the Phillipines against his Muslim opposition.

Could we do it these days? No. Not unless we were existentially threatened, which hasn't happened in the context of open warfare since WW II (Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, etc).

But if those circumstances re-emerged, I have no doubt whatsoever that we would do whatever was necessary to preserve our nation and way of life, however horrific it might be.

163 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:56:25pm

re: #151 wee fury

FamHistGuy must be a genealogist.
Most likely not a very good one.

He said that Grant and Sherman were war criminals. I don't agree. They faced a (mostly)well lead and very determined enemy who was often hard to bring to battle. Given the difficulties in attacking the enemy's armies, he chose to go after the Confederacy's ability to make war by ruining places like Jackson and Meridian, Miss, and Atlanta. It was a brutal tactic, but one used because conventional tactics didn't work.

164 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:56:29pm

re: #158 Gus 802

What paypal rumor? I'm having a hard time keeping up...

165 McSpiff  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:56:34pm

re: #145 Mich-again

They think he was a traitor to the Constitution.

There's also people who think that rainbows are a conspiracy. Nothing you can do about stupid...

166 swamprat  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:57:34pm

Grant ended the Souths' ability to wage war. It was deliberate. Many people starved in the aftermath. It was not done to "punish" the South; It was done to hobble them. War is a nasty business.

167 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:57:43pm
168 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:58:15pm

re: #164 Fenway_Nation

What paypal rumor? I'm having a hard time keeping up...

Should probably let it slide.

169 wee fury  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 9:59:04pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

Sherman said, "War is hell."

170 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:00:07pm

re: #157 talon_262

Sherman's March to the Sea is a textbook example of "total war", American style. As a Southerner, it doesn't bother me because it, along with the Union victories on battlefields such as Shiloh (which I've visited many times), brought the Civil War to an end, the former Confederate states back into the Union, and marked the end of slavery in America.

absolutely. naming my first born sherman. sherman spacejesus.

or tecumseh.

171 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:00:16pm

re: #157 talon_262

Sherman's March to the Sea is a textbook example of "total war", American style. As a Southerner, it doesn't bother me because it, along with the Union victories on battlefields such as Shiloh (which I've visited many times), brought the Civil War to an end, the former Confederate states back into the Union, and marked the end of slavery in America.

Sherman lost control of his troops...what happened to Columbia SC is inexcusable and criminal

172 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:01:54pm

re: #165 McSpiff

There's also people who think that rainbows are a conspiracy. Nothing you can do about stupid...



They're taking away our constitiuonal rights. Sprinkler rainbows! Sprinkler rainbows!

Jesus wept.

173 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:02:32pm
174 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:02:36pm

re: #167 MikeySDCA

I envy your optimism. I'm not sure we have the guts. It scares me.

We'd do it. And then we'd live with it. Just like we have before.

It's dirty businnes, but better than dying.

175 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:03:19pm

re: #164 Fenway_Nation

The raving psychos at the stalker blog have accused me of revealing their personal information based on old Paypal donations they made. It's 100% false. Any names I revealed -- for example "Rodan" is Rick Martinez and "savagenation" is Marc Thomas Donato -- were obtained through searching the internet and correlating information, and I can prove it. See this post for more: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

They're claiming falsely that I got it from Paypal in order to try to get Paypal to cancel my account for violating their terms of service, but it's not going to happen.

176 wee fury  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:04:32pm

re: #173 MikeySDCA

I have.

177 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:05:21pm
178 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:05:54pm

re: #170 spacejesus

absolutely. naming my first born sherman. sherman spacejesus.

or tecumseh.

True story. Today, one of my study hall kids asks for a library pass.

"What are you going to do in the library?" I ask.

"Study," he says.

"Study what?"

"History."

"Cool. What are you doing for history?"

"I have to research this Indian."

By the fact that the kid is a junior (American History year), I deduce we are talking more Sitting Bull than Gandhi. "Which Indian are we speaking of?"

"His name was Sam, I think."

"Sam the Indian?"

"Not Sam. Something else."

I do a quick analysis of where Mrs. Callahan's class is likely to be in US history right now, and come up with the War of 1812. "Tecumseh?"

"Yeah!"

"OK. Go to the library. But before you go, I'm writing down Tecumseh's name for you, so you don't do that same routine to Sister Mary Catherine."

"OK."

179 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:06:11pm

re: #148 MikeySDCA
There are many.
An example:

Sherman ordered Jackson bombarded every five minutes day and night, and then his soldiers sacked and destroyed the city. Sherman told Grant that they had devastated the land for thirty miles around. Sherman’s forces also destroyed the city of Meridian. In the late summer of 1864 Sherman’s army bombarded Atlanta and then destroyed ninety percent of the city. As they marched to Savannah robbing and plundering, Sherman ordered randomly chosen civilians killed in retaliation for attacks by Confederate soldiers. Because South Carolina began the secession movement, Sherman ordered his men to pillage, plunder, and sack cities there even more ruthlessly. His chaplain James Stillwell reported that a majority of the cities, villages, and county houses were burned to the ground.


Grant was not in favor of continuing the ' burn your way to the sea' policy, nor was Lincoln, but it was a little late. The Confederate army would have been defeated just as easily had just their resources and defenses , not personal homes and city blocks, been destroyed.
Another source is
[Link: search.barnesandnoble.com...]

180 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:06:49pm

re: #7 medaura18586

Thanks guys, and thanks Charles for the link. It's my pleasure to spell out what should be mother's milk to these grown up men.

Rock on Kejda!

181 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:07:04pm

hey Night Lizards!

Bad craziness all around?

What's up?

182 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:07:26pm

re: #149 Charles

And by the way -- please note that Killgore Trout is NOT a racist, and his comments were deliberately over the line to make a point.

The point was that the comments at Hot Air were absolutely FULL of open, unabashed racism ... and nobody was doing anything to stop it. Nobody was even disapproving of it.

I don't approve of his method, but he had a point. A DAMNED good point. And it was only after he pushed the limit that Hot Air started to do anything at all to stop the rampaging bigotry of their commenters.

Agreed, I have mixed feelings about it myself. Nothing less extreme would have produced results but I'm not sure the results were worth the extremism. I temproraily changed the comment policy on one blog, I'm not sure if it was worth the stink I created. It is what it is.

183 McSpiff  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:07:44pm

Well lizards, its 2am on the east coast (of Canada), so I must run. Keep your head up, and your stick on the ice.

184 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:08:40pm

re: #179 tradewind

There are many.
An example:


Grant was not in favor of continuing the ' burn your way to the sea' policy, nor was Lincoln, but it was a little late. The Confederate army would have been defeated just as easily had just their resources and defenses , not personal homes and city blocks, been destroyed.
Another source is
[Link: search.barnesandnoble.com...]

yes...excellent google foo...it's all in the record and excusing Sherman is just windy bravado

185 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:08:46pm
186 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:08:56pm

re: #178 SanFranciscoZionist

sam the indian? sounds like he was making that up in order to get out of study hall haha

187 wee fury  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:09:14pm

re: #177 MikeySDCA

?

188 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:09:15pm

re: #175 Charles

Gotchya.

Like I said- getting harder and harder to keep track lately. Epsecially since I haven't been to some of the aforementioned blogs in 2 or 3 years.

189 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:09:56pm
190 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:10:40pm

re: #182 Killgore Trout

P.S. I am not a paid employee of Charles or LGF. I comment here like everyone else. Charles has no control over what I post on other blogs.

191 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:10:47pm

re: #160 LudwigVanQuixote

I think that is what disturbed me most about the ACORN tapes. Importing underage sex slaves --well, slaves at all, I would hope that in America, of all places, would produce an emotional response.

Instead, the one response "you have to train them not to talk about the situation".

WTF???

192 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:11:57pm

One more note on the Paypal thing before I drop it:

I have NEVER publicly revealed personal information I obtained through a Paypal donation, and I NEVER will. That's a promise.

I take the privacy of LGF users very seriously.

193 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:12:20pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

P.S. I am not a paid employee of Charles or LGF. I comment here like everyone else. Charles has no control over what I post on other blogs.

I've already said so over at Kejda's

194 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:12:32pm

re: #158 Gus 802

BTW, looks like Allaphpundit and Ed Morrissey are allowing them to spread that false "Paypal" rumor in the comments over in the Green Room.

Gus-- There is also another agenda. The psychopaths like Rodan at the stalker blog are using this alleged 'outing' by Charles to justify tracking down and posting the names, addresses, and personal information of commenters here.

It's a perfect illustration of the lunacy infecting the entire wingnut world at present. As Jimmah described it brilliantly, it is the morality of the playground: never blame yourself for yelling a racist slur at a kid, but blame the kid who told on you-- and similarly, say "They did it first!" or "I know you are but what am I?" to justify any reprehensible action you or 'your side' wants to undertake.

195 wee fury  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:12:33pm

re: #189 MikeySDCA

I have. Many years ago. I do not remember that passage. I'm sorry.

196 Irenicum  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:12:46pm

re: #160 LudwigVanQuixote

Amen and amen! Extremely well said!

197 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:12:54pm

I haven't seen them bring up the paypal shit in weeks. I was hoping they realized how stupid they were after the first and only post they made about it

198 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:12:56pm

re: #180 iceweasel

sent you a mail.

199 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:12:57pm

re: #184 albusteve

Let's just say that today, they would have been all sent through Courts Martial and everything from My Lai to Abu Ghraib wouldn't even begin to approach the same level.

200 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:12:57pm

re: #171 albusteve

Sherman lost control of his troops...what happened to Columbia SC is inexcusable and criminal

It can't be excused, but it can be understood. The Union felt intense rage towards South Carolina, which had been the first state to secede, as well as a hotbed of secessionist sentiments since the Nullification Crisis. With Charleston having surrendered to local forces before Sherman's army could reach it, Columbia was made the target of the northern wrath. The city was burned in what can only be described as an act of retribution. With its capital in ruins, South Carolina had paid the price of its failed ambitions and it vile social order.

However, as tradewind noted, the brutality of the Union army caused an extreme reaction in the Palmetto State and was one of the reasons SC remained stridently racist until the 1970s. This is also not to excuse the racists, but to explain why they felt the way they did.

201 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:13:06pm

re: #196 Irenicum

Amen and amen! Extremely well said!

Thanks.

202 swamprat  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:13:11pm

The way war prisoners were kept by both sides would qualify as a war crime today. Indians and settlers did things to each other that boggle the mind. Both sides. And also the Mormons vs the rest of the world. Both sides. Mex and Tex. Both sides.

203 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:13:35pm

re: #189 MikeySDCA

I thought you read the book.

Sherman's behavior is common historical knowledge and has been debated since it happened...there are tons of records

204 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:14:01pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

I'll go one better. Right now, I'm nobody's paid employee.

/Thank you, double-digit unemployment!

205 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:14:02pm

re: #192 Charles

One more note on the Paypal thing before I drop it:

I have NEVER publicly revealed personal information I obtained through a Paypal donation, and I NEVER will. That's a promise.

I take the privacy of LGF users very seriously.

I'm sure no one believes you would do such a thing ---except the freaks motivated by their own agenda, who wish to justify their own disgusting tactics.

206 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:14:53pm

re: #199 tradewind

Let's just say that today, they would have been all sent through Courts Martial and everything from My Lai to Abu Ghraib wouldn't even begin to approach the same level.

Of that there is no doubt.

207 swamprat  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:15:19pm

re: #182 Killgore Trout


By god, they know who who you are!

208 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:15:25pm

re: #3 LudwigVanQuixote

So how do we rid ourselves of this hateful lunacy?

I am very serious in asking this.

Where is the GOP leadership in stopping this?

Ohhh... they are complicit.

Some of it is complicit, and that part has to go. The rest is cowed, not complicit. The rest has to man up.

How did we get to the point that RSMcC has any sort of currency at all in the public realm? He has political Tourette's.

209 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:15:27pm
210 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:16:06pm

re: #185 MikeySDCA

The first one is from Sanderson Beck ( no, no relation to that one, people)
[Link: www.san.beck.org...]
As for ' untrue', wow... you must be older than dirt to state that so positively.
There are a zillion sources, including memoirs from the generals themselves.

211 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:18:20pm
212 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:18:45pm

re: #209 MikeySDCA

The burning of Columbia is perhaps a controversial issue in some circles, but Sherman is absolved of responsibility by Shelby Foote, how is by no means a Yankee shill.

Foote can kiss my Yankee butt...wth was Sherman even doing there besides exercising retribution?...the war was lost for the south

213 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:19:06pm

re: #38 Killgore Trout

The neoConfederate concept is new to me. I'm still digesting it.

The Paleolibs and NeoConfederates give each other reach arounds at the Rockford Institute.

214 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:20:19pm
215 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:22:11pm

re: #214 MikeySDCA

A fact which lots of Rebels, including Robert E. Lee, had not noticed at that time.

no excuse...Lincoln, Grant and Sherman all knew it...and you are not giving Lee enough credit to know what the score was

216 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:22:54pm

re: #100 LudwigVanQuixote

I just figured that out! I guess I get to be the clown again...

But I really love the allusion that as Charles begins to purge Jews, I will be kept around. Given the former lizards who I am ashamed to day are Jewish, they knew full well what they meant. The metaphor is of the most pronounced insult.

However, this is not really about me. I am at best amused by them, though deeply saddened at the Jewish ones, who should know better, particularly at this time of year.

The fact is that they really are gearing up to accuse Charles of being a Jihadi sympathizer. That is the point.

They are. They've been building up to accusing him of being anti-Israel for weeks now, if not months. Not just the stalker site but the other loons like the shrieking harpy and Spencer. It's coming.
It will be a complete lie, of course, just like this PayPal bullshit, but others on the right will spread it.

217 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:23:00pm

re: #214 MikeySDCA

A fact which lots of Rebels, including Robert E. Lee, had not noticed at that time.


yes. the south was continuing the war out of sense of pride. lee was contemplating a guerilla style war that would last for years. sherman was extinguishing that pride and will to fight.

218 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:23:23pm
219 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:24:14pm

Here's what I don't understand: With all those speechwriters at his disposal, why doesn't TOTUS have the sense to reverse the order of emphasis here?
Maybe next time he could apologize after acknowledging what has been done by thre: #211 MikeySDCA

e US that is good.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

220 Randall Gross  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:24:25pm

re: #106 medaura18586

Yeah, they recognize each-other, alright. But you are transposing the consonants in my name again. It happens all the time.

/sigh...

I'm considering changing my name to Kayda.

Argg. I like the sound of Kedja better than Kejda I guess... Apologies

221 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:25:16pm
222 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:25:17pm

re: #217 SpaceJesus

yes. the south was continuing the war out of sense of pride. lee was contemplating a guerilla style war that would last for years. sherman was extinguishing that pride and will to fight.

You are correct, SpaceJesus. (At one time, I would have expected my keyboard to burst into flames if I typed that sentence. Now I find myself saying it more and more.)

223 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:25:20pm

Wonder if jorts pioneer Daisy Duke was a neo-Confederate.

//

224 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:25:21pm

re: #142 tradewind

One word: pyromaniac.
The hatred for Sherman that persists in the South has less to do with the outcome of the war and more to do with the way it was done. The pointless destruction of property was unnecessary and ... excessive. Even Grant finally said ' stop it, you idiot'.

It wasn't Grant's intervention. Sherman's army let up immediately on crossing the NC/SC border. South Carolina had been punished, and the war was effectively over.

Sherman had it right. The war was the truly destructive thing, and the remedy was to win it so it'd be over.

225 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:25:35pm

(Whoah/PIMF. Have no idea how that post was as bifurcated as it is, just disregard)

226 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:27:10pm

re: #218 MikeySDCA

Whatever Lee may have known, he fought to the end.

yes, waiting for Europe to rescue him or some nonsense...it was over after Gettysburg, militarily, and he knew it...fighting to the 'end' was needless and only served to unleash Sherman the Brute on him and Davis...ideological jerks

227 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:27:59pm

re: #215 albusteve

no excuse...Lincoln, Grant and Sherman all knew it...and you are not giving Lee enough credit to know what the score was

Lee and the senior Confederate general may have had an idea that the war was lost later on, but I think most of the fault lies with the CSA civilian leadership (Jefferson Davis, especially) that most likely had the generals press on longer than was necessary.

228 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:28:02pm

re: #211 MikeySDCA

Not even in Wikipedia?
You mean no private, amateur contributor even bothered to post their personal-opinion-expressed-as-fact into the not-so-reliable anthology that is Wiki?

229 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:28:23pm
Robert Stacy McCain says:
September 22, 2009 at 11:52 pm

Having never met you, Mrs. Gjermani, I am unaware of what cause you might have to attack me in this manner. However, I regret that you never attempted to contact me to inquire about any of these matters, as I might have warned you against publishing an attack that will cause you so much embarrassment.

What a douchebag.

230 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:28:39pm

re: #227 talon_262

PINF...meant "Lee and the senior Confederate generals"

231 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:28:49pm

re: #221 MikeySDCA

That's false. Lee rejected a guerilla style war the night before he surrendered at Appomatox. He said it would destroy the South.

of course he rejected it when he surrendered. but he still contemplated it. his idea if i remember, was to use light cavalry to harass the union and make life really hard for any southern occupation force.

232 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:29:07pm

re: #227 talon_262

Lee and the senior Confederate general may have had an idea that the war was lost later on, but I think most of the fault lies with the CSA civilian leadership (Jefferson Davis, especially) that most likely had the generals press on longer than was necessary.

yes, Davis was a fanatic

233 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:29:33pm
234 Flyers1974  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:29:57pm

One possible justification for the north's policy towards the south: to discourage the south from instituting a policy of gurreilla warfare once they were unable to continue traditional warfare.

235 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:30:10pm

re: #216 iceweasel

They are. They've been building up to accusing him of being anti-Israel for weeks now, if not months. Not just the stalker site but the other loons like the shrieking harpy and Spencer. It's coming.
It will be a complete lie, of course, just like this PayPal bullshit, but others on the right will spread it.

If they make an organized effort based on fraudulent gossip that may affect the financial income of a person doesn't that fall into racketeering laws or something similar?

236 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:30:15pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

Really douche-y.
He sounds like he has a stick up his rear end.

237 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:30:53pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

What a douchebag.

You can smell the misogyny from here.

238 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:30:55pm

re: #233 MikeySDCA

To call Robert E. Lee an "ideological jerk" is moronic. He was offered the command of the Union Army in 1861, and refused because he was unwilling to make war against Virginia.

to support Sherman's behavior and actions is worse than moronic

239 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:30:56pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

What a douchebag.

Did he contact Charles before he launched all his obsessive attacks?

240 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:31:11pm

so if hot air is the confederacy, and lgf is the union, who gets to be grant and lee?

241 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:31:13pm
242 BignJames  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:31:27pm

re: #200 Dark_Falcon

It can't be excused, but it can be understood. The Union felt intense rage towards South Carolina, which had been the first state to secede, as well as a hotbed of secessionist sentiments since the Nullification Crisis. With Charleston having surrendered to local forces before Sherman's army could reach it, Columbia was made the target of the northern wrath. The city was burned in what can only be described as an act of retribution. With its capital in ruins, South Carolina had paid the price of its failed ambitions and it vile social order.

However, as tradewind noted, the brutality of the Union army caused an extreme reaction in the Palmetto State and was one of the reasons SC remained stridently racist until the 1970s. This is also not to excuse the racists, but to explain why they felt the way they did.


No more so than any other Southern state...SC schools were integrated before the schools in Boston.

243 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:32:26pm
244 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:32:36pm

re: #239 Sharmuta

Did he contact Charles before he launched all his obsessive attacks?

it just keeps piling up...these people are out of their league

245 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:33:04pm

re: #240 SpaceJesus

You mean who's the drunk and who's the demigod?
Dunno...
///

246 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:33:15pm

re: #232 albusteve

yes, Davis was a fanatic

And for that, Sherman's March to the Sea and the Carolinas Campaign, while excessive in many ways, may have been the only way for the Union to break the back of civilian support for the war.

/right or wrong, it's history...

247 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:33:31pm

re: #205 iceweasel

I'm sure no one believes you would do such a thing ---except the freaks motivated by their own agenda, who wish to justify their own disgusting tactics.

I call this kind of tactic: bullying

-Creating websites to make fun of another person such as a classmate or teacher
-Using websites to rate peers as prettiest, ugliest, etc.

Intersting --Adult Cyber Bullying

248 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:34:04pm

re: #229 Killgore Trout

Robert Stacy McCain says:
September 22, 2009 at 11:52 pm
Having never met you, Mrs. Gjermani, I am unaware of what cause you might have to attack me in this manner. However, I regret that you never attempted to contact me to inquire about any of these matters, as I might have warned you against publishing an attack that will cause you so much embarrassment.

And I have to laugh too, just knowing Kejda. That's a very weak and pathetic response, and she's not going to be embarrassed. She didn't back down to Spencer and she's certainly not going to back down to this dillhole.

249 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:34:05pm

re: #239 Sharmuta

Did he contact Charles before he launched all his obsessive attacks?

You can smell the douchebaggery from here.

250 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:34:27pm

re: #242 BignJames

No more so than any other Southern state...SC schools were integrated before the schools in Boston.

That I had not known. South Carolina did have possibly the worst post-Civil War Senator: "Pitchfork" Ben Tilden, a vile racist who defended lynching. At the rate he's going, I expect Robert Stacy McCain to write an article calling Tilden "misunderstood".

251 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:34:50pm

re: #249 ArchangelMichael

You can smell the douchebaggery from here.

Smells like Mountain Dew and Cheetos...

///

252 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:35:02pm

Check out the Internet Archive's copies of Overthrow.com, the neo-Nazi site Robert Stacy McCain posted links to at Free Republic:

[Link: overthrow.com...]

I wonder if Robert Stacy McCain is actually on this site somewhere.

Warning: that is one of the most vile sites you'll ever come across. Possibly worse than Stormfront.

253 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:35:40pm

re: #243 MikeySDCA

Who says I support Sherman's actions?

I do...do you?

254 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:36:05pm

re: #242 BignJames

No more so than any other Southern state...SC schools were integrated before the schools in Boston.

To be fair, Boston schools were "de facto" segregated; they were neighborhood schools, and the neighborhoods were segregated.

But Massachusetts was the first state to implement Jim Crow laws for the railroads, where blacks had to ride in separate cars. Southern states never had such laws, but it was unlikely a black would ride in a "white" car unless he had a good reason, typically involving work for a white boss.

So there, I've pointed out problems and "good" points of both the North and the South.

And now, it is late and I need to go to bed.

Goodnight, lizards

255 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:37:58pm
256 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:38:01pm

re: #246 talon_262

And for that, Sherman's March to the Sea and the Carolinas Campaign, while excessive in many ways, may have been the only way for the Union to break the back of civilian support for the war.

/right or wrong, it's history...

fascinating stuff and some it will never be resolved...it's done now

257 BignJames  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:38:18pm

re: #254 Kosh's Shadow


I knew that about the schools...I didn't know that about the RRs.

258 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:38:22pm

re: #28 medaura18586

Nothing, and I mean, nothing of consequence will be achieved until the SoCons and religious supremacists are rooted out. That much I figured out long ago, and spelled it out in this article--my writing skills then were not as tight, but I think the points are still valid, actually more so than ever. You don't have to be an atheist to agree with me that religion doesn't belong it political circles. And when I wrote that article, I wasn't even aware of how much bigotry lurked under the skins I was scratching. I was speaking from a strictly strategic perspective.

Unless Conservatism reverts back to classical liberalism--distinguished from paleo-conservatism--it just has no future. Not in this country, not with our demographics, not given the American Zeitgeist. Any Conservative too scared or hateful to embrace that shift will wither away...

/my two cents

That's a beautiful essay.

259 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:38:49pm

Can I be General Joseph Hooker?

Failing that can I just partake in some other activity involving hookers?

260 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:38:55pm

re: #240 SpaceJesus

so if hot air is the confederacy, and lgf is the union, who gets to be grant and lee?

Charles is Grant, Killgore is Sherman, Sal is George Thomas, and I'm Winfield Scott Hancock.

The other side has no one worthy of Lee or Jackson. Rodan is Braxton Bragg, Coldwarrior is John Bell Hood, Robert Stacy McCain is Nathan Bedford Forrest, and jorline is Lewis Armistead.

261 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:39:12pm

re: #252 Charles

Check out the Internet Archive's copies of Overthrow.com, the neo-Nazi site Robert Stacy McCain posted links to at Free Republic:

[Link: overthrow.com...]

I wonder if Robert Stacy McCain is actually on this site somewhere.

Warning: that is one of the most vile sites you'll ever come across. Possibly worse than Stormfront.

OK that is a sufficiently vile group of assholes that I want my baseball bat...

262 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:40:12pm

re: #252 Charles

Check out the Internet Archive's copies of Overthrow.com, the neo-Nazi site Robert Stacy McCain posted links to at Free Republic:

[Link: overthrow.com...]

I wonder if Robert Stacy McCain is actually on this site somewhere.

Warning: that is one of the most vile sites you'll ever come across. Possibly worse than Stormfront.

Here's one:

[Link: www.overthrow.com...]

The lead in is by overthrow dot com.

Content warning.

263 Flyers1974  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:40:25pm

Lee contemplates guerrilla warfare.

[Link: books.google.com...]

Guerrilla warfare generally in Virginia

[Link: www.encyclopediavirginia.org...]

264 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:40:28pm

re: #258 lostlakehiker

That's a beautiful essay.

I agree. We need to reinvent the Enlightenment and Classical Liberal Values.

265 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:40:29pm

re: #259 Fenway_Nation

Can I be General Joseph Hooker?

Failing that can I just partake in some other activity involving hookers?

Works for me. You're our Hooker.

266 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:40:47pm

re: #260 Dark_Falcon

Charles is Grant, Killgore is Sherman, Sal is George Thomas, and I'm Winfield Scott Hancock.

The other side has no one worthy of Lee or Jackson. Rodan is Braxton Bragg, Coldwarrior is John Bell Hood, Robert Stacy McCain is Nathan Bedford Forrest, and jorline is Lewis Armistead.

Second-stringers, benchwarmers, B-listers...

267 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:40:59pm

re: #257 BignJames


Yes...some of the segregated railcars continued to be used until about 45 years ago. Even if the train was passing through a non Jim Crow state.

268 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:41:29pm

re: #253 albusteve

Okay, time out/international symbol for whoah... I didn't want to start a do-over of the WONA**, or for sure a threadjack... it was just a reaction to Sherman. When we hear that name, we think ' fire', still. It doesn't even have so much to do with a cause or who won what anymore.
I'm sure Charles is ready for no mas of this.
:)
**war of northern aggression, historically correct title of the Wah.//

269 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:41:30pm

re: #255 MikeySDCA

No more than Shelby Foote does.

good enough I suppose...now move on and read up on Shermans racist attitude toward Indians

270 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:41:53pm

Look who just showed up to down-ding this article: winston06.

271 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:41:58pm

*sigh*

This isn't a replaying of the civil war. This is here and now and the war is being played out by other means. There's a reason I've been discussing scientific racism in the last few weeks. Now we are starting to see some of the connections coming out- RSM is linked to Jared Taylor who is linked to the Pioneer Fund who is linked to vdare who is linked to Malkin who is linked to hot air who is letting RSM smear Charles on their site.

272 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:42:11pm

Whoever that dumbass on Kejda's blog is that trying to claim that Killgore is actually a real racist should be nominated for the Biggest Douche in the Universe award. Yes, I'll take it away from John Edward for this.

Nice how he links to the LDNT from the next day to prove... something I guess, rather than the one while it was occuring where the motivation was being discussed and it is clear what KT was trying to do. I'm not defending the moby-ness of the whole thing, but to try to pretend that KT is an actual racist is like being bukkaked with stupid... yes you heard me fucktards, even 9-11 Troofers aren't that asinine and disingenuous.

273 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:42:36pm
274 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:42:50pm

re: #265 Dark_Falcon

I prefer to be addressed as Fightin' John Joe...

275 Ben G. Hazi  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:42:57pm

re: #270 Charles

Look who just showed up to down-ding this article: winston06.

WTH?

/shakes head

276 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:43:25pm

re: #272 ArchangelMichael

Whoever that dumbass on Kejda's blog is that trying to claim that Killgore is actually a real racist should be nominated for the Biggest Douche in the Universe award. Yes, I'll take it away from John Edward for this.

Nice how he links to the LDNT from the next day to prove... something I guess, rather than the one while it was occuring where the motivation was being discussed and it is clear what KT was trying to do. I'm not defending the moby-ness of the whole thing, but to try to pretend that KT is an actual racist is like being bukkaked with stupid... yes you heard me fucktards, even 9-11 Troofers aren't that asinine and disingenuous.

Psst: you should post that comment over there.

277 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:43:29pm

re: #241 MikeySDCA

When did he consider this? With source, please.

sure. he contemplated the idea, and apparently guerilla warfare was endorsed by jefferson davis himself.

Robert E. Lee: A Biography

from page 362

[Link: books.google.com...]

278 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:45:55pm

re: #276 Charles

Psst: you should post that comment over there.

won't work...they are like a brick wall

279 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:46:18pm

re: #235 Gus 802

If they make an organized effort based on fraudulent gossip that may affect the financial income of a person doesn't that fall into racketeering laws or something similar?

Not so far as I know, but it would fall under defamation (not slander): malicious rumours spread whilst knowing they were false, designed to harm someone's business.

Worth noting that this is one of the few areas online where there have been successful lawsuits.

280 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:46:18pm

Whoa!

Annoying someone via the Internet is now a federal crime.

It's no joke. Last Thursday, President Bush signed into law a prohibition on posting annoying Web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages without disclosing your true identity

Guess it's true

On January 5, 2006, President Bush signed into law: H.R. 3402, the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005," which reauthorizes the Violence Against Women Act for for years 2007-2011, makes amendments to criminal and immigration law, consolidates major law enforcement grant programs and authorizes appropriations for the Department of Justice for for years 2006-2009. According to "TITLE I--ENHANCING JUDICIAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOLS TO COMBAT VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, Section 113. Preventing Cyberstalking ... Whoever ... utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet ... without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person ... who receives the communications ... shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."

281 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:46:38pm

re: #260 Dark_Falcon

No on the Forrest, since a) he freed all his slaves before the war's end, and McCain evidently would still be keeping them. Also, the founding of the klan, which he is forever stuck with in history, was not the bunch of racist yahoos that it devolved into after his death. It was a security detail for women and children who were being raped and attacked, and disbanded by Forrest when it was no longer needed. The evil came after him, when it was twisted into something dark and ugly that persists into today's world.

282 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:47:02pm

re: #260 Dark_Falcon

Charles is Grant, Killgore is Sherman, Sal is George Thomas, and I'm Winfield Scott Hancock.

The other side has no one worthy of Lee or Jackson. Rodan is Braxton Bragg, Coldwarrior is John Bell Hood, Robert Stacy McCain is Nathan Bedford Forrest, and jorline is Lewis Armistead.


Charles is Lincoln I think

283 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:47:16pm

re: #282 SpaceJesus

Charles is Lincoln I think

I think he's Charles.

284 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:47:34pm

re: #279 iceweasel

Not so far as I know, but it would fall under defamation (not slander): malicious rumours spread whilst knowing they were false, designed to harm someone's business.

Worth noting that this is one of the few areas online where there have been successful lawsuits.

Right, online would be a gray area. Offline it would be something that would be clearly illegal if it was a false rumor.

285 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:48:02pm

Rodan has to be Jefferson Davis.

wasn't Davis a cross-dresser?

286 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:48:16pm

re: #272 ArchangelMichael

Whoever that dumbass on Kejda's blog is that trying to claim that Killgore is actually a real racist should be nominated for the Biggest Douche in the Universe award. Yes, I'll take it away from John Edward for this.

Nice how he links to the LDNT from the next day to prove... something I guess, rather than the one while it was occuring where the motivation was being discussed and it is clear what KT was trying to do. I'm not defending the moby-ness of the whole thing, but to try to pretend that KT is an actual racist is like being bukkaked with stupid... yes you heard me fucktards, even 9-11 Troofers aren't that asinine and disingenuous.

I'm still agnostic about my own actions but I'd kinda like that Biggest Douchebag in the Universe award.

287 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:48:31pm

My father was from rural Alabama, and my mother was from rural Mississippi. To state that they were prejudiced would be to put it mildly. It was so bad that my father blew a fuse when, as a teenager working a summer job, I invited a black male co-worker to visit our home, and while in college, I hid a two-year romantic relationship with a brilliant and beautiful black fellow student - one of the finest ladies it has ever been my privilege to know - from their knowledge out of dire necessity.

My mother was severely ill for much of my Mobile, Alabama childhood. My father hired Edna, a black woman, to be a housekeeper and a nanny to me.

Although I was a small child, I can remember her looking at the King protests on the TV when they reached our hometown, and proclaiming to no one in particular and everyone in general, "Look at all those people out there, making fools of themselves!"

But she used the money she made from the job to put her own daughter through college. In that context, I can understand her employment-preserving statement.

288 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:48:53pm

Who is winston06?

289 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:49:37pm

On the other side, who gets to be CSA Major General George Pickett?

290 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:50:25pm

re: #278 albusteve

won't work...they are like a brick wall

The point isn't to convince them. It's to have at least some refutations of the lies on record. Otherwise, they'll just flood her comments -- it's happening already.

291 Flyers1974  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:50:58pm

re: #280 ggt

Whoa!

This should be struck down as being overbroad for starters.

292 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:51:00pm

I've lost track of how many times I've said the vlaams belang rift had yet to finish playing out.

Here we are at the next round, and I think this one will be much more definitive and really allow us to see who is on what side when it comes to bigotry.

293 Blue Belle  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:51:23pm

That overthrow.com site is vile, but now I am beginning to understand what the problem is with Malkin, etc. I haven't read their sites in so long I didn't realize the extent of their derangement.

294 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:51:28pm

re: #287 Salamantis

My father was from rural Alabama, and my mother was from rural Mississippi. To state that they were prejudiced would be to put it mildly. It was so bad that my father blew a fuse when, as a teenager working a summer job, I invited a black male co-worker to visit our home, and while in college, I hid a two-year romantic relationship with a brilliant and beautiful black fellow student - one of the finest ladies it has ever been my privilege to know - from their knowledge out of dire necessity.

My mother was severely ill for much of my Mobile, Alabama childhood. My father hired Edna, a black woman, to be a housekeeper and a nanny to me.

Although I was a small child, I can remember her looking at the King protests on the TV when they reached our hometown, and proclaiming to no one in particular and everyone in general, "Look at all those people out there, making fools of themselves!"

But she used the money she made from the job to put her own daughter through college. In that context, I can understand her employment-preserving statement.

Or perhaps, she was much like most of us here, just some one who thinks extreme protesting is silly. I think my father would call it "maintaining a sense of decorum."

295 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:52:20pm

re: #266 talon_262

Second-stringers, benchwarmers, B-listers...

That's the point. Though I made RSM Forrest to highlight his nastiness, and jorline as Armistead for my own reasons. If you've seen the movie Gettysburg, and remember the role I assigned to myself, you have some idea of what I'm talking about.

BTW: I forgot two roles: Iron Fist as Daniel Harvey Hill, and SpaceJesus as William Grierson. Grierson was Union cavalry commander who lead a brillient raid through Mississippi. SpaceJesus is our raider.

296 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:52:23pm

re: #293 Blue Belle

That overthrow.com site is vile, but now I am beginning to understand what the problem is with Malkin, etc. I haven't read their sites in so long I didn't realize the extent of their derangement.

Malkin has always been over-the-top for me. Once she started filling in for Bill O'Reilly, I pretty much had it with her.

297 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:52:59pm

re: #290 Charles

The point isn't to convince them. It's to have at least some refutations of the lies on record. Otherwise, they'll just flood her comments -- it's happening already.

I'll try again...they are utterly convinced that you sanctioned KT's stealth mission

298 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:53:18pm
299 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:53:25pm

I read half of Malkin's Invasion and decided she was a fear monger.

300 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:53:35pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

That's the point. Though I made RSM Forrest to highlight his nastiness, and jorline as Armistead for my own reasons. If you've seen the movie Gettysburg, and remember the role I assigned to myself, you have some idea of what I'm talking about.

BTW: I forgot two roles: Iron Fist as Daniel Harvey Hill, and SpaceJesus as William Grierson. Grierson was Union cavalry commander who lead a brillient raid through Mississippi. SpaceJesus is our raider.


i nominate ace of spades to be stonewall jackson. not because of his competence, but because he is dense.

301 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:53:41pm

re: #294 ggt

Or perhaps, she was much like most of us here, just some one who thinks extreme protesting is silly. I think my father would call it "maintaining a sense of decorum."

No. I found out much later that her college-bound daughter was one of the protestors, with her mother's permission and approval.

302 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:54:53pm

re: #289 Fenway_Nation

On the other side, who gets to be CSA Major General George Pickett?

song_and_dance_man is Pickett.

303 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:54:53pm

re: #298 Charles

Michelle Malkin's White Supremacist Ties

2006? how come this never got more press

304 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:55:09pm

re: #301 Salamantis

No. I found out much later that her college-bound daughter was one of the protestors, with her mother's permission and approval.

What a shame, she felt she had to provide a "cover". The good ole' days weren't always so good.

305 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:55:33pm

re: #300 SpaceJesus

i nominate ace of spades to be stonewall jackson. not because of his competence, but because he is dense.

OK, SJ. He's in.

306 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:55:56pm

re: #290 Charles

The point isn't to convince them. It's to have at least some refutations of the lies on record. Otherwise, they'll just flood her comments -- it's happening already.

I added a less incendiary version of that comment, but she has comment moderation on so it wont be there until she checks it again.

307 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:57:28pm

re: #303 SpaceJesus

2006? how come this never got more press

Another example of "the enemy of my enemy is not necessarily my friend"

???

308 Flyers1974  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:57:38pm

re: #298 Charles

Michelle Malkin's White Supremacist Ties

According to the article, VDARE is named after Virginia Dare, the first white women born in the new world. I wonder what compelled them to name themselves after her?

309 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:58:19pm

re: #308 Flyers1974

According to the article, VDARE is named after Virginia Dare, the first white women born in the new world. I wonder what compelled them to name themselves after her?

yeah, those pesky spanish and portugese don't count as white huh

310 Flyers1974  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 10:58:42pm

re: #303 SpaceJesus

2006? how come this never got more press

Where the hell was the liberal media on that one?

311 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:00:30pm

re: #299 Sharmuta

I read half of Malkin's Invasion and decided she was a fear monger.

My WTF moment was her book defending internment of Japanese American Citizens during WW2. It not too much of a leap to go from thinking that was OK, to advocating it for Muslims during the WoT.

I cant find the place in the Constitution that says you can ignore the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th Amendments to lock up American citizens without a trial during wartime.

312 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:00:33pm

re: #304 ggt

What a shame, she felt she had to provide a "cover". The good ole' days weren't always so good.

I will tell as much as I can while still trying to preserve my identity.

My mother was raised 20 miles from the Philadelphia, Mississippi dam where the Freedom March civil rights protestors were buried.

My father was raised 15 miles from Selma Alabama.

And one of my uncles related the order from Bull Connor to loose the dogs and fire hoses on the protestors marching actross Edmund Pettis bridge.

313 freetoken  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:00:52pm

re: #262 Gus 802

yes, in that article Bill White (who copied RSM's article from the WT) referred to RSM as his "friend". Now, RSM tried to distance himself from Bill White in a Sept 14th entry on his site. However, given that RSM's conclusion of that article was:

Of these three individuals -- George Archibald, Bill White, and Charles Johnson -- the one who stands out, ironically, is White. Whatever grievous wrongs he has committed, Bill White has never attacked me.

Yup, RSM's conclusion is that someone (CJ) criticizing RSM is worse than the ranting of a nazi-sympathetic anti-semite (Bill White.)

314 Blue Belle  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:01:26pm

I just don't get it. What's Malkin's motivation for ties like that?

315 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:02:25pm

re: #298 Charles

Michelle Malkin's White Supremacist Ties

Once she came out that interning Japanese Americans was a good thing, could there have been any doubt that she is whacked?

316 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:04:00pm

re: #314 Blue Belle

I just don't get it. What's Malkin's motivation for ties like that?


lots of racists tend to be anti-muslim i would guess

317 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:04:02pm

re: #313 freetoken

yes, in that article Bill White (who copied RSM's article from the WT) referred to RSM as his "friend". Now, RSM tried to distance himself from Bill White in a Sept 14th entry on his site. However, given that RSM's conclusion of that article was:

Yup, RSM's conclusion is that someone (CJ) criticizing RSM is worse than the ranting of a nazi-sympathetic anti-semite (Bill White.)

That's really rich.

Of course Bill White never attacked Robert Stacy McCain. Why would he? They're on the same page.

Bill White, by the way, as I wrote in my earlier post about McCain, actually sent me threatening emails and tried to find my home address and telephone number, and the addresses of my family, to place them on Overthrow.com and incite his followers to attack me and my family. And I don't mean verbally.

318 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:04:37pm

re: #299 Sharmuta

I read half of Malkin's Invasion and decided she was a fear monger.

Ya think? I'll be clear and say that I have detested her along with Coulter for years.

What gets me about Malkin is that as a Philippino convert to Judaism she should know better.

319 albusteve  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:04:43pm

re: #314 Blue Belle

I just don't get it. What's Malkin's motivation for ties like that?

fame, recognition, adoration, relevence etc
which all turns into money down the road

320 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:04:57pm

re: #315 LudwigVanQuixote

Once she came out that interning Japanese Americans was a good thing, could there have been any doubt that she is whacked?

And why were German-Americans not similarly interned? After all, Nazi Germany was our main enemy, if not the nation that first attacked us.

Could it be that they were not as ethnically and racially identifiable?

321 Flyers1974  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:05:04pm

re: #314 Blue Belle

I just don't get it. What's Malkin's motivation for ties like that?

Appealing to the Republican base. And no downside.

322 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:05:24pm

re: #308 Flyers1974

According to the article, VDARE is named after Virginia Dare, the first white women born in the new world. I wonder what compelled them to name themselves after her?

They explain it on their site. I won't link to it.

323 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:06:40pm

re: #71 Sharmuta

More on American Renaissance:

In the world of 'academic racism,' four groups play leading roles.

The first group listed is Charles Martel Society/The Occidental Quarterly:

Founded in 2001 by Chicago millionaire publishing scion William H. Regnery, the Charles Martel Society puts out The Occidental Quarterly, a journal devoted to the idea that "race informs culture" that is edited by a Who's Who of the radical right. Its chief editor is Kevin Lamb; its managing editor is Louis R. Andrews and its associate editor is Wayne Lutton, who also works at The Social Contract Press, another hate group. The board of the society includes Andrews, Lamb, American Renaissance Editor Jared Taylor and Sam Dickson, a white supremacist lawyer and luminary of the Council of Conservative Citizens.

More on Regnery.

Regnery has published Spencer and Malkin, among others.

324 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:06:45pm

re: #294 ggt

Or perhaps, she was much like most of us here, just some one who thinks extreme protesting is silly. I think my father would call it "maintaining a sense of decorum."

If you think the protesters side of the march on Selma was anything other than peaceful, dignified and of the highest caliber, you are not in touch with history.

325 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:07:05pm

re: #320 Salamantis

And why were German-Americans not similarly interned? After all, Nazi Germany was our main enemy, if not the nation that first attacked us.

Could it be that they were not as ethnically and racially identifiable?

Ya think?

326 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:07:10pm

re: #312 Salamantis

I will tell as much as I can while still trying to preserve my identity.

My mother was raised 20 miles from the Philadelphia, Mississippi dam where the Freedom March civil rights protestors were buried.

My father was raised 15 miles from Selma Alabama.

And one of my uncles related the order from Bull Connor to loose the dogs and fire hoses on the protestors marching actross Edmund Pettis bridge.

Oh, I remember what it was like on the "other side of racism". I grew up in Detroit in the '70's. So much history was happening and I had no clue. Separate but Equal My Ass! We all lost out.

327 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:07:22pm

In fact ...

Here's one of those posts at Overthrow.com threatening me:

[Link: web.archive.org...]

328 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:07:57pm

re: #318 LudwigVanQuixote

Ya think? I'll be clear and say that I have detested her along with Coulter for years.

What gets me about Malkin is that as a Philippino convert to Judaism she should know better.

Then again Chomsky should know better too. Some people are just nuts.

329 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:08:16pm

re: #324 LudwigVanQuixote

If you think the protesters side of the march on Selma was anything other than peaceful, dignified and of the highest caliber, you are not in touch with history.

I wasn't indicating that it wasn't. People like my parents in their generation felt any showing of such was improper. It was a mindset.

330 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:09:16pm

re: #314 Blue Belle

I just don't get it. What's Malkin's motivation for ties like that?

$$$ -- getting her name out there, selling books, selling ad space on her website?

331 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:09:41pm

re: #329 ggt

I wasn't indicating that it wasn't. People like my parents in their generation felt any showing of such was improper. It was a mindset.

Fair enough, but without the courage of those that stood, nothing would have happened.

332 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:09:48pm

re: #317 Charles

That's really rich.

Of course Bill White never attacked Robert Stacy McCain. Why would he? They're on the same page.

Bill White, by the way, as I wrote in my earlier post about McCain, actually sent me threatening emails and tried to find my home address and telephone number, and the addresses of my family, to place them on Overthrow.com and incite his followers to attack me and my family. And I don't mean verbally.

OMG!!!

333 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:11:04pm

re: #331 LudwigVanQuixote

Fair enough, but without the courage of those that stood, nothing would have happened.

Yes, I know and agree. I don't think I posted anything that indicated otherwise.

334 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:11:08pm

re: #320 Salamantis

And why were German-Americans not similarly interned? After all, Nazi Germany was our main enemy, if not the nation that first attacked us.

Could it be that they were not as ethnically and racially identifiable?

That was part of it, though some German-Americans were interned. But many others fought for the USA. The 83rd Infantry Division (The Rag-Tag Circus) had enough german-speakers to organize an infiltration company that was used to try to capture a bridge across the Rhine. The assault failed: though it came close to the bridge, the ruse was detected and they bridge demolished before they could cross.

335 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:11:10pm

re: #331 LudwigVanQuixote

Fair enough, but without the courage of those that stood, nothing would have happened.

One of my favorite sci-fi authors, Harlan Ellison, was among the Edmund Pettis bridge marchers.

He is Jewish.

336 Blue Belle  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:11:32pm

Well, defending past historical events is one matter, as we can see with the present Civil War or "The War of Rebellion" discussion. (And yes that book was nuts.) But to actually identify oneself with contemporary lunatics, thugs and who-knows-what else as they spin off into hatred, and maybe worse, seems almost suicidal.

337 Gus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:11:41pm

re: #327 Charles

In fact ...

Here's one of those posts at Overthrow.com threatening me:

[Link: web.archive.org...]

Criminals.

338 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:11:46pm

re: #311 ArchangelMichael

My WTF moment was her book defending internment of Japanese American Citizens during WW2. It not too much of a leap to go from thinking that was OK, to advocating it for Muslims during the WoT.

I cant find the place in the Constitution that says you can ignore the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th Amendments to lock up American citizens without a trial during wartime.

I've seen her arguments from that book posed here at LGF.

339 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:12:40pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

That was part of it, though some German-Americans were interned. But many others fought for the USA. The 83rd Infantry Division (The Rag-Tag Circus) had enough german-speakers to organize an infiltration company that was used to try to capture a bridge across the Rhine. The assault failed: though it came close to the bridge, the ruse was detected and they bridge demolished before they could cross.

And a Japanese division, nicknames the Butterheads because of their yellow color, was among the most decorated units in the European campaign.

340 freetoken  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:13:13pm

re: #317 Charles

What's also rich is that PJM is now running an article that tries to deflect criticism of "birthers"... and sure enough, the 'nirthers are coming out in the comments.

341 SpaceJesus  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:13:32pm

Bill White, Commander. hahahaha

342 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:14:05pm

re: #338 Sharmuta

I've seen her arguments from that book posed here at LGF.

I think in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 people were exploring all options in their heads. We didn't know what we were facing. Thank G-d we had, as a country, the sense not to freak-out entirely.

343 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:14:17pm

re: #335 Salamantis

One of my favorite sci-fi authors, Harlan Ellison, was among the Edmund Pettis bridge marchers.

He is Jewish.

I adore Ellison.

One of my favorite marchers was a young attorney from up North. My dad.

He's Jewish too.

344 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:14:37pm

re: #342 ggt

I think in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 people were exploring all options in their heads. We didn't know what we were facing. Thank G-d we had, as a country, the sense not to freak-out entirely.

No- it was just a couple of months ago.

345 BignJames  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:14:44pm

re: #339 Salamantis

442nd RCB...I think.

346 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:15:42pm

re: #311 ArchangelMichael

My WTF moment was her book defending internment of Japanese American Citizens during WW2. It not too much of a leap to go from thinking that was OK, to advocating it for Muslims during the WoT.

I cant find the place in the Constitution that says you can ignore the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th Amendments to lock up American citizens without a trial during wartime.

Uhhh yeah... I was always taught that this was a violation of American values of the highest magnitude.

347 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:15:59pm

re: #344 Sharmuta

No- it was just a couple of months ago.

oh, that's a bit, well, nuts.

348 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:16:43pm

re: #333 ggt

Yes, I know and agree. I don't think I posted anything that indicated otherwise.

Also fair enough. :) Peace.

349 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:16:53pm

I guess it's just hard to wrap around the 'come to Jesus' moments.

In this case the 'come to Jesus' moment is realizing, for a lot of people / conservatives, I am sure, that their party has less than clean hands. Yet blind allegiance to party is winning.

What is really stupid is that instead of washing their hands and moving on they are busy trying to just hide them behind their backs. So now we are getting punched in the face by the nutjobs with both hands tied voluntarily placed behind our backs.

I would love us, well those in a position to do so that people will listen to, to denounce the racists and stop giving them public forum's (Pat Buchanan's running around on T.V. / Hannity interviews etc.) so that we can put our hands back up to defend ourselves as the hits keep piling on...

Just a few thoughts on the matter...

350 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:17:44pm

re: #339 Salamantis

And a Japanese division, nicknames the Butterheads because of their yellow color, was among the most decorated units in the European campaign.

Correct. They fought in Italy. Another notable WWII unit was the 93rd Armored Battalion (The Black Panthers). This all-Black unit served as part of 3rd Army from October of 1944 on. Perhaps their finest moment was taking part in Patton's counterattack that relieved Bastogne and doomed Germany's offensive in the Ardennes.

351 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:18:07pm

I've added Bill White's threatening post in an update above, along with McCain's admission that White is his friend.

352 Blue Belle  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:18:17pm

I have to type faster-well, I have answers as her motivation. It still puts her in the same category as those horrible people threatening Charles and his family.

353 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:18:54pm

re: #327 Charles

Wow! Such nastiness. Did you catch this from the sidebar?
I need a shower now.

" Top articles from 2008"
1. N*$$&^ Candidate Comes Out Against The Constitution

354 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:19:23pm

re: #353 Floral Giraffe

Wow! Such nastiness. Did you catch this from the sidebar?
I need a shower now.

" Top articles from 2008"
1. N*$$&^ Candidate Comes Out Against The Constitution

I wasn't kidding when I said it was really, really bad.

355 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:19:49pm

re: #335 Salamantis

One of my favorite sci-fi authors, Harlan Ellison, was among the Edmund Pettis bridge marchers.

He is Jewish.

Whoa! I love Ellison!

356 Neutral President  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:20:21pm

re: #334 Dark_Falcon

That was part of it, though some German-Americans were interned. But many others fought for the USA. The 83rd Infantry Division (The Rag-Tag Circus) had enough german-speakers to organize an infiltration company that was used to try to capture a bridge across the Rhine. The assault failed: though it came close to the bridge, the ruse was detected and they bridge demolished before they could cross.

The Germans did not appreciate our ruse.

357 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:20:29pm

re: #347 ggt

oh, that's a bit, well, nuts.

Yeah- it got a lot of updings though.

358 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:20:37pm

re: #345 BignJames

442nd RCB...I think.

What I find remarkable about them is that they fought valorously for this country in Europe while their relatives were interned in camps at home.

I think it must have had something to do with proving to the nation that they were patriots, too - and by extension, their families at home.

359 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:20:59pm

I think there are a lot of people out there identifying themselves as Conservative that do so meaning "I'm not one of those Whacky -Folsom Street Fair-type - Liberal Leftists."

Labels are so misleading. I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut at dinner parties, etc.

If asked, I say "I'm a Classical Liberal" and confuse nearly all of them.

360 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:22:17pm

Ludwig- check your email, please.

361 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:23:02pm

re: #351 Charles

I've added Bill White's threatening post in an update above, along with McCain's admission that White is his friend.

Charles,

Another totally evil site that I won't link to here, JW, has this evil shit to say about you... I am only bringing this to keep you aware. I hate this asshole.

At this point virtually everyone in the blogosphere, except CAIR tool Charles Johnson's new Leftist and jihadist allies ... The lies and half-truths Johnson and his accomplices have spread and are spreading continue to do damage -- after all, he is now a primary source of talking points for Hamas-linked CAIR.

The only good thing about this is that if you are damaging these evil creeps so much the better. SOMEONE with real cred on this side needs to take them out.

362 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:23:12pm

re: #357 Sharmuta

Yeah- it got a lot of updings though.

WE are in unchartered waters. I think people are vascillating from one mis-understood label to another --daily.

I find myself thinking --"Now, what exactly does XXX mean and where do I stand on it". When a year or two ago, I thought I knew both with certainty.

That's probably why I'm delving back in to the philosophy books. Trying to figure it out.

363 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:24:43pm

re: #360 Sharmuta

Ludwig- check your email, please.

kk...re: #355 iceweasel

Whoa! I love Ellison!

Yahoo!

364 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:25:27pm

re: #361 LudwigVanQuixote

That's right - Robert Spencer has a post up calling Robert Stacy McCain a "genius."

Robert Spencer is heaping praise on an outright white supremacist.

The mask is totally gone.

365 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:25:41pm

Ok, what is everyone's favorite Harlan Ellison book. I need to put it in my queue. I've never read any of his. Still totally enjoying David Weber and John Ringo.

366 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:26:20pm

re: #365 ggt

Ok, what is everyone's favorite Harlan Ellison book. I need to put it in my queue. I've never read any of his. Still totally enjoying David Weber and John Ringo.

Deathbird Stories. Without question.

367 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:28:07pm

re: #366 Salamantis

Deathbird Stories. Without question.

Seconded.

Ellison is an excellent short story writer.

Here is one of my favourites.

368 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:28:17pm

re: #366 Salamantis

Deathbird Stories. Without question.

thanks

369 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:28:17pm

re: #361 LudwigVanQuixote

The only good thing about this is that if you are damaging these evil creeps so much the better. SOMEONE with real cred on this side needs to take them out.

HAHAHAH!!!

CAIR is using LGF as a 'talking point'! Perfect! They will collapse very quickly then.

I love it when A=A and the whole world is trying to self congratulate and assure each other that "He's on the wrong side...right?...uh...right?".

2+2 does not equal 5 no matter how many rightwing blogs want to assure each other, and tell each other they are right in believing it.

370 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:28:58pm

re: #367 iceweasel

Seconded.

Ellison is an excellent short story writer.

Here is one of my favourites.

you are awesome!

371 [deleted]  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:29:03pm
372 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:29:32pm

New thread is up --my cue to sign-off and get some sleep.

weet dreams all!

373 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:29:38pm

re: #371 Instinct

*facepalm*...

374 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:29:43pm

re: #371 Instinct

Enjoy the fleas.

375 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:30:10pm

re: #371 Instinct

Did anyone ever tell you that intellect and instinct are mutually exclusive?

376 BARACK THE VOTE  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:30:22pm

re: #370 ggt

you are awesome!

Mutual, ggt! {ggt}

377 Cheechako  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:31:10pm

Charles -

Please feel free to borrow part of my personal philosophy:

"You can't go wrong if you're doing what's right!"

Keep up the good work!

378 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:31:13pm

re: #360 Sharmuta

resend then ?

379 freetoken  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:31:21pm

re: #364 Charles

That's right - Robert Spencer has a post up calling Robert Stacy McCain a "genius."

And RSM is calling Bill White a genius... in that article of Sept 14 RSM makes it a point to highlight the intelligence of Bill White and suggest his IQ is over 140.

A whole lot of genius going 'round...

380 tradewind  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:31:23pm

re: #361 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh, this is rich...since I asked Charles just the other day a question about the seeming silence of CAIR lately and he answered me explaining that CAIR had been pretty much discredited as a radical. Hamas-pushing front.
The jerks should do at least a cursory search before they face-plant like that.

381 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:31:26pm

re: #356 ArchangelMichael

The Germans did not appreciate our ruse.

No, they didn't. And we did not apreciate their Greif (Griffin) teams during the Ardennes Offensive. That was actually were the 83rd got the idea. They also aquired a substantial amount of German weapons and equipments. Then they took the Hun's little trick and ran it back on them. And though they did not capture the bridge, they were able to survive the battle as a unit. Most of the Greif teams were caught and executed.

382 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:32:37pm

And her's another one:

If you are receiving flak from both extremes, you must be in the moderate sensible center.

383 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:34:00pm

Harlan Ellison is my absolute favorite essayist as well as SF author.
The part about violence has stuck with me my whole life.

[Link: harlanellison.com...]

384 Athos  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:34:39pm

re: #292 Sharmuta

I've lost track of how many times I've said the vlaams belang rift had yet to finish playing out.

Here we are at the next round, and I think this one will be much more definitive and really allow us to see who is on what side when it comes to bigotry.

Until they can break through and gain the respectability they covet - or until more and more decide to honor their own priniciples and character as opposed to reacting from fear - it will continue.

That type has been at it for decades. It is why we need to remain vigilant.

385 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:34:40pm

re: #379 freetoken

And RSM is calling Bill White a genius... in that article of Sept 14 RSM makes it a point to highlight the intelligence of Bill White and suggest his IQ is over 140.

A whole lot of genius going 'round...

My IQ is waay over 140...that and 5 bucks will get me a cup of cappuchino at Starbuck's.

/It ain't whatcha got, it's whatcha do with it.

386 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:35:06pm

re: #378 LudwigVanQuixote

resend then ?

Um.. okay.

387 fat.elvis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:37:40pm

McCain's writing style irritated the hell outta me long before I knew about his childish Neo-Confederate beliefs.

As far as Reynolds, I hope he'll be honest and stop linking the creep but I fear he "lacks fire".

388 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:37:43pm

re: #386 Sharmuta

Um.. okay.

Got it. Replied. Send more.

389 Athos  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:38:32pm

re: #385 Salamantis

My IQ is waay over 140...that and 5 bucks will get me a cup of cappuchino at Starbuck's.

/It ain't whatcha got, it's whatcha do with it.

Anytime someone has to resort to using an IQ score to make a point - they've already lost the argument.

As you said - smart doesn't equal being able to functionally applying common sense and critical thinking.

390 Sharmuta  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:42:35pm

re: #388 LudwigVanQuixote

Got it. Replied. Send more.

Asking me to send you more of the same is asking for a lot- you are aware of that, no?

391 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:43:12pm

re: #385 Salamantis

My IQ is waay over 140...that and 5 bucks will get me a cup of cappuchino at Starbuck's.

/It ain't whatcha got, it's whatcha do with it.

IQ is a meaningless measure except in the broadest strokes...

Let's say My IQ was also tested to be wayyy over 140.

Richard Feynman was tested at 132.

Now I would love to believe that somehow I am smarter than him. However that is a fever dream.

I can only conclude the test is bogus.

392 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:43:37pm

re: #390 Sharmuta

Asking me to send you more of the same is asking for a lot- you are aware of that, no?

yes...

393 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:45:04pm

re: #390 Sharmuta

Asking me to send you more of the same is asking for a lot- you are aware of that, no?

check your mail.

394 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:45:19pm

re: #391 LudwigVanQuixote

IQ is a meaningless measure except in the broadest strokes...

Let's say My IQ was also tested to be wayyy over 140.

Richard Feynman was tested at 132.

Now I would love to believe that somehow I am smarter than him. However that is a fever dream.

I can only conclude the test is bogus.

IQ tests measure one's ability to take IQ tests. Nothing more.

/Well, maybe something more. But not much.

395 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:45:35pm

re: #394 Salamantis

IQ tests measure one's ability to take IQ tests. Nothing more.

/Well, maybe something more. But not much.

agreed.

396 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:55:08pm

re: #395 LudwigVanQuixote

agreed.

I am a past member of both Mensa (top 2%) and Intertel (top 1%). I dropped out of them both. And never joined all the other exotic IQ societies in which I was offered membership.

Why?

Because I quickly discovered that discussing shit you didn't care about with other purportedly bright people who DO care about it paled to diaphanous pastel in significance, interest, and personal enjoyment compared with discussing shit you really DID care about with other people whom were well informed on the topic being discussed, regardless of their GREs or Stanford-Binets.

/I guess I have to give my supposedly high IQ at least a little credit for figuring out that shit quickly, though...;~)

397 Bagua  Tue, Sep 22, 2009 11:57:50pm

re: #391 LudwigVanQuixote

Richard Feynman, was tested at 132.

Now I would love to believe that somehow I am smarter than him. However that is a fever dream.

Damn-it Ludwig, I've asked you not to use my real name on the internet, it's Bagua, get it, and the test was wrong, I was drunk!

398 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:00:43am

re: #383 LudwigVanQuixote

Thank you for posting this! I enjoyed reading it.
Have you ever witnessed that kind of violence?
It is spectacular and haunting.

399 sagehen  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:02:29am

re: #200 Dark_Falcon

It can't be excused, but it can be understood. The Union felt intense rage towards South Carolina, which had been the first state to secede, as well as a hotbed of secessionist sentiments since the Nullification Crisis. With Charleston having surrendered to local forces before Sherman's army could reach it, Columbia was made the target of the northern wrath. The city was burned in what can only be described as an act of retribution. With its capital in ruins, South Carolina had paid the price of its failed ambitions and it vile social order.

and yet, when they were done with Columbia:

"Early Monday morning, the 20th, the army marched out of the city in three columns, one taking Main Street north to the Winnsboro Road, one going out Taylor Street toward Camden, and one keeping close to the twisted rails of the Charlotte Railroad. In fact, the Federals had resumed their march toward the railroad junction at Goldsboro, North Carolina. Once they crossed the state line, all burning, looting, and foraging ceased. The army gave more to the people of North Carolina than it took, some soldiers observed, by way of redistributing the wealth of South Carolina to the state that was the last and most reluctant to secede from the Union."
[Link: www.sc.edu...]

400 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:05:32am

re: #399 sagehen

and yet, when they were done with Columbia:

"Early Monday morning, the 20th, the army marched out of the city in three columns, one taking Main Street north to the Winnsboro Road, one going out Taylor Street toward Camden, and one keeping close to the twisted rails of the Charlotte Railroad. In fact, the Federals had resumed their march toward the railroad junction at Goldsboro, North Carolina. Once they crossed the state line, all burning, looting, and foraging ceased. The army gave more to the people of North Carolina than it took, some soldiers observed, by way of redistributing the wealth of South Carolina to the state that was the last and most reluctant to secede from the Union."
[Link: www.sc.edu...]

Proportionate recompense.

401 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:14:29am

re: #400 Salamantis

OK, I don't know enough about this.
Would you please recommend a book or two?
Not more than two, though...

402 VioletTiger  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:17:57am

re: #396 Salamantis
Just credit your common sense, Sal!

403 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:20:45am

re: #402 VioletTiger

Just credit your common sense, Sal!

Common sense is like common stock; it's handy to have around, but I'd prefer preferred (read informed)...;~)

404 Salamantis  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:25:48am

re: #401 Floral Giraffe

OK, I don't know enough about this.
Would you please recommend a book or two?
Not more than two, though...

I shoudn't have to. From time immemorial, the most resistant defeated enemies have always, quite understandably, received the most extreme retribution - if for no other reason, to break their spirits in order to ensure that they would not be the source of further difficulties (most of the time this worked; sometimes, not). It's a general principle; the Civil War just provided yet another specific instance.

405 sagehen  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:37:53am

re: #401 Floral Giraffe

OK, I don't know enough about this.
Would you please recommend a book or two?
Not more than two, though...

If you're looking for an overall Civil War book, Battle Cry of Freedom is the one everybody I know raves about. (1989 Pulitzer).

406 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:54:46am

re: #405 sagehen

Thank you! I just ordered it!

407 Mauser  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 1:52:47am

While I may have argued a little with Charles recently over some specifics, in general, I think he's right. And this recent massive blogwar/Falling out is incomprehensible to me. I don't see recent postings on this blog as any kind of "Change" on Charles' part, other than focusing his principles on areas that have been perhaps a little neglected before.

But even if he was not focusing his spotlight on the growing number of ideological cockroaches on the Right, simply the mere fact of what he's unearthed on RSM SHOULD be making all of these other blogs drop him like a hot potato. I can't see ANYTHING even the slightest bit redeeming about him that could possibly justify rallying around him like these blogs are.

Really, Facts are facts, and the facts about RSM should be enough to discredit him anywhere. And if anyone has any problems with Charles over some of his recent topics, well, they're not doing themselves any credit by flocking to this guy.

408 boofar  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 4:44:01am

Kejda is beautiful.

Where do such girls exist? :p

*ahem*

409 MarshallOnellion  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 5:31:49am

Dear Mr. Johnson:

I have admired your writing and thinking for years. I especially admire you for attacking white supremacists. I am old enough to have grown up in the segregated South as a young child. To me, an Anglo man, there is nothing- nothing- admirable about the traitors who seceded from the U.S.A. Lee, David, Stonewall Jackson, et al- traitors to a person. As for the song Dixie- it is irredeemably tainted with the Klan to be admired. The various Confederate battle flags, some of which are used as state flags (e.g., South Carolina)?- Emblems of treason. So, yes, there are Anglo Southerners who spit in the face of such drivel. Good job.

410 FrogMarch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 6:06:58am

I'd never heard of this Stacy McCain person until the 2008 election. I assumed maybe he was related to John McCain in some way? Unless someone were to read it here on LGF - are RS McCain's racist views known by many? Just curious.

411 Achilles Tang  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 6:16:16am

I get confused with all these names that I don't know sometimes, but reading the last piece above from this Bill White I have to comment that the tone and content displays a clear immaturity in the writer. Sounds exactly like a typical schoolyard bully with an adoring audience of fawning ditto heads (I think I remember who made the ditto head term famous).

However, without having researched it, what on earth is a "socialist worker party" doing hanging out with the other primitives?

412 mili  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 6:27:08am

Sorry for my OCD attitude, but this typo is hurting my eyes.

At the very top of this page is written Kejda Germani, while her name is actually Kejda Gjermani, with an J.

413 Chekote  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 7:10:26am

I am sure that with time more and more people on the Right will come around to Charles' view that certain elements need to be purged. Let's not forget that even Buckley initially tolerated the Birchers.

414 Yankee Zionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 7:15:52am

Holy Moly.

I went to the League of the South's website and was redirected to a url with the word dixie in it.

In any event, I discovered that this group supports the dissolution of the USA. They want the South to secede (lawfully and peacefully) but still...

That was enough for me. I'm a Republican. I am probably what you could call a neo-con. But Jesus Christ on a crutch, enough.

Any moron who thinks relations between slaves and slaveowners were "cordial" has his head up his A$$. I've been reading Frederick Douglass' autobiographices -- avail on kindle for cheap. They were not cordial.

This is disgusting. Frikkin' disgusting. I went from thinking Charles was being hysterical to wondering WTF is going on.

415 Yankee Zionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 7:16:53am

Purge these people. Mock them. Expose them. Send them hither. But have nothing to do with them.

416 Yankee Zionist  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 7:18:20am

re: #409 MarshallOnellion


You're darn right! These people support SECESSION. WTF?!!!

Tell me that this is a parody. Tell me these people are just trying to provoke a response.

WTF?!?!?!?!

417 medaura18586  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:13:51am

re: #248 Sharmuta

And I have to laugh too, just knowing Kejda. That's a very weak and pathetic response, and she's not going to be embarrassed. She didn't back down to Spencer and she's certainly not going to back down to this dillhole.

My response: [Link: www.kejda.net...]

418 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:25:17am

re: #417 medaura18586

My response: [Link: www.kejda.net...]

That's the Kejda I know. :D

419 S'latch  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 8:59:18am

I wonder if Glenn Reynolds is correct. Is it impossible to build a successful movement by a process of subtraction? Does the purge approach to coalition politics always fail?

I don't mean to suggest that I know the answer. I am just posing the question.

420 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:01:40am

re: #419 Lawrence Schmerel

I wonder if Glenn Reynolds is correct. Is it impossible to build a successful movement by a process of subtraction? Does the purge approach to coalition politics always fail?

I don't mean to suggest that I know the answer. I am just posing the question.

I could not possibly care less. If this so-called "movement" means that I have to throw my lot in with people like Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, and Robert Stacy McCain, I'm not interested in being a part of it.

421 Sharmuta  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:02:15am

re: #419 Lawrence Schmerel

I wonder if Glenn Reynolds is correct. Is it impossible to build a successful movement by a process of subtraction? Does the purge approach to coalition politics always fail?

I don't mean to suggest that I know the answer. I am just posing the question.

You don't build a successful coalition in American politics with neo-nazis and their friends. It's a one-way ticket to failure and irrelevancy.

422 Gunzip  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:18:10am

(It used to seem pointless to post a comment here, because I assumed that Charles couldn't possibly read them all. But he does seem to have noticed my posts recently, so...)

I'm on CJ's side in this McCain business, besides a bit of language nitpicks.

The specifics of that debate don't matter to what I'm going to talk about. All that matter is that CJ made an assertion with evidence (SM is racist because A, B, and C) and SM responded with lengthy missives that didn't address A, B, and C. At best, SM provided counterexamples (such as X: "I'm friends with and highly admire this other guy who does excellent charity work in Africa") that didn't refute A,B,C but only suggest that SM is a somewhat complicated fellow.

Many people have apparently been satisfied by SM's misdirection, but CJ's argument lies untouched.

My point of this post is: is this the best the Internet can do? We've known the rules of logical arguments for centuries. Can't we come up with a Web 3.0 system in which arguments can be submitted in some kind of XML markup (which would allow only logical arguments), and systems (composed of humans and software) in which arguments and evidence can be weighed in a logical way as quickly as Google ranks pages?

I know this sounds hand-wavey, but I'm a Web Services developer and I've given this a lot of thought and I think it can be done. (I also think that the work involved in developing and encoding sound evidence to support arguments could be the future of the news industry.)

Then people like SM couldn't effectively use massive misdirection like he has.

I know enough about how hard this would be to not try to do alone, but every once an a while I bring this up in hopes that some other software developers will get where I'm coming from and get excited about the idea. (Charles's home-grown site is a testament to his coding skills, and obviously he's interested in truth, so...)

I am also aware that there might already be a project along these lines, in which case I just want to know about it.

423 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:26:04am

re: #419 Lawrence Schmerel

I wonder if Glenn Reynolds is correct. Is it impossible to build a successful movement by a process of subtraction? Does the purge approach to coalition politics always fail?

I don't mean to suggest that I know the answer. I am just posing the question.

I just stole this from a lizard's profile:

There are no eternal friends nor eternal enemies, there are only eternal interests.

"Coalition politics" are ephemeral. It always involves watching your back.

424 wrenchwench  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 9:29:04am

re: #422 Gunzip

Fascinating.

425 medaura18586  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:24:14am

re: #420 Charles

I could not possibly care less. If this so-called "movement" means that I have to throw my lot in with people like Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, and Robert Stacy McCain, I'm not interested in being a part of it.

And that's exactly how the decent average American feels. Glenn Reynolds will never know the full opportunity cost of partnering with them because it will be un-materialized... the millions of people who never joined, because they wanted nothing to do with creeps. I recommend that book by Henry Hazlit to everyone here, by the way. It's about economics, but its lessons can be applied in many other areas. Best of all, it's free.

426 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 10:44:07am

re: #425 medaura18586

Lots of kooks and crypto-racists showing up in your comments, I see. Imagine my surprise!

427 Charles Johnson  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:03:35am

re: #422 Gunzip

It sounds like a good idea, but you're vastly underestimating how slippery some people can be. And the fact is that people like Robert Stacy McCain are not interested in having an honest argument based on facts and logic, because they know they'll be destroyed by their own words.

There's really no way to code these kinds of factors into a piece of software. It's messy human stuff, and it doesn't easily fit (in fact, it doesn't fit at all) into IF...THEN...ELSE statements.

428 medaura18586  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 11:10:38am

re: #426 Charles

Yes,.. hard to keep track of. I'll reread the thread in its entirety when I get some more time, and weed some of it out. Others, I may allow to stand as examples of how truly deranged these people are.

429 Original Kolya  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:09:51pm

re: #420 Charles

I could not possibly care less. If this so-called "movement" means that I have to throw my lot in with people like Robert Spencer, Pamela Geller, and Robert Stacy McCain, I'm not interested in being a part of it.

I've been trying to make sense of why what appeared after 9/11 to be a cohesive blog movement has fractured and polarised so dramatically in the past couple of years. I'm not talking about the factual history of the break-up. I'm talking about the fact that there must have been something wrong with the "movement" even before the rupture happened.

I think part of the answer is that people were attracted to the movement for a mixture of two different motives: 1) because they had a similar vision of what constitutes a decent society and wanted to marshal support in defence of that vision; 2) because they shared a visceral hatred of the people and ideology behind 9/11 and wanted to form the widest possible alliance to confront their common enemy.

For several years, tactical considerations kept these differences in motivation from becoming a source of friction within the movement. But as the focus of the conflict with extreme Islamicism has shifted from the military to the political arena, these differences in fundamental motivation have increasingly come to the fore.

As a result a visible gulf has opened up between those who, on the whole, believe in some form of universal humanist vision of what we are striving for; and those who are predominantly gripped by a sectarian exclusivist dogma that sees particular "other" peoples as intrinsically inferior, and a more or less permanent source of danger to Western civilisation.

I suggest that you, Charles, and your supporters, are more strongly motivated by the former kind of considerations, and your opponents by the latter.

430 medaura18586  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:26:47pm

re: #429 Original Kolya

Well said. From my earlier Trifkovic file:

CAIR is not interested in integrating Muslims into a liberal America, but rather in spearheading subversive movements to empower extremists at home and abroad. Conversely, Trifkovic is not interested in defending America, the institutional product of the Enlightenment, from the advances of radical Islam — in fact his writings and actions suggest he despises America’s liberal, secular, constitutional nature. Philosophically he yearns for the establishment of a tribal, medieval, eugenicist, proto-Christian aggressive state whose glory is defined by the cruelty it can inflict on its neighbors, while pragmatically he seems interested in furthering Belgrade and Kremlin propaganda in American circles. Anti-Islamic polemics is his platform for gaining attention and credibility to promote his true goals.

Effective opposition to the insinuations of radical Islam in the West ought to focus not only on what we oppose, but most importantly on what we affirm. No successful response to Islamofascism — or one worthy of success — can include the likes of Trifkovic and his supporters, including Robert Spencer.

431 korla pundit  Wed, Sep 23, 2009 12:28:01pm

re: #429 Original Kolya

What we're witnessing is the same as we are witnessing in Europe. Any swing to the left always seems to spur a spike on the right. That's the problem with pendulums.

The natural reaction to the perception that ones culture is threatened is a fear that is easily taken advantage of by the more exteme elements of any political bent. That is how tyrants and strongmen the world over have come to power. Make the people afraid that they're losing their heritage, the culture, their power, their jobs, their way of life. Then promise to protect them from the radicals, the traitors, the criminal conspirators of the other side.

People naturally want a government for one main reason: to protect them. Fascists know this well and will use this tactic probably throughout history, since people as a whole never seem to learn.

Considering how far to the left the Obama policies have tried to swerve, I can't say I'm surprised by the emergence of the populists. I only hope that a more balanced Congress can be seated in 2010 and kick the legs out from below the more unbalanced soapboxes.

432 Gunzip  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 5:56:14am

Sure, people like McCain could refuse to play, but part of the idea is that if the system was good enough, gradually more and more people would use it and rely on it, and pay less attention to people who didn't use it. If successful, the systems would become a major go-to site for understanding public debates, and people would be forced to use it if they want to be capture eyeballs and be trusted.

Well, anyway... yeah, I know, it's a "demo or die" thing...

The intelligence community already has dabbled with this sort of thing. Google "argument markup language".

433 [deleted]  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 12:43:38pm
434 Charles Johnson  Thu, Sep 24, 2009 12:48:00pm

Of course, you could just stop coming here. But no, you need to make the big statement.

Deleted. See ya.


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