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1 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:46:26pm

Do we have to have a thread with a video to watch this late at night? Charles you’re mean!

(East Coast catnip smoking liberal so I’m 3 hours ahead of you…)

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:46:29pm

In other words, this is a nazi group and comparing these scum to nazis is utterly appropriate. They are literally nazis.

3 freetoken  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:51:03pm

Repost from downstairs:

AL Gubernatorial Candidate Tim James Calls His English-Only Ad ‘Just Common Sense’

[James] defined his “brand” as “common sense,” and declared it a “roadway safety issue” rather than an immigration one. He also expressed support for all kinds of immigrants– from Ireland, Russia, Germany, etc. Williams defined his ad as “pandering” to xenophobia and possibly detrimental to the Alabama economy. James responded, in his colorful way, that Williams’ take was “the biggest argument I’ve never heard more nonsense in my life.”

Between the Arizonans and their laws, my own Congressman (Hunter) with his statement about wanting to deport children born in this country, and this guy James and his “roadway safety” bullcrap… I’d say the GOP has had a rousingly good xenophobic week, eh?

4 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:51:09pm

“To govern is to populate” is a direct quote from Hitler’s 1929 Nuremberg address.

5 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:52:07pm

This is really fucking amazing to watch. Could you imagine the next presidential debate when the Republican candidate has to defend legislation written by White Nationalists? It’s beyond fucked up and will never play well with the electorate. Bad, really really bad.

6 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:52:37pm

re: #4 LudwigVanQuixote

“To govern is to populate” is a direct quote from Hitler’s 1929 Nuremberg address.

So not only are they racists, they’re also plagiarists!

7 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:52:44pm

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

Give it a FUCKING REST!!!
Can you name ONE Canadian gang?
Eskimo gang?
…Native American Gang?
Jewish gang?
We lost a Deputy Sheriff here to a POS that had been
deported 3 times…went back to the same “job” …
Dealing drugs and stolen weapons!
Why ?

8 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:52:46pm

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

I think the Nazi meme is being overused. Not that what this bill is trying to do, is right. I just think that comparing it to the Nazi’s demeans what the Holocaust was.

9 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:53:50pm

Cliffster, stop your kneejerk dings. That is a direct quote from that address that I have quoted here twice. Care to dispute that fact? Care to address how the asshole who founded this is actually a nazi.

SPLC has no credibility while we are at it?

10 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:54:01pm

re: #7 reloadingisnotahobby

Give it a FUCKING REST!!!
Can you name ONE Canadian gang?
Eskimo gang?
…Native American Gang?
Jewish gang?
We lost a Deputy Sheriff here to a POS that had been
deported 3 times…went back to the same “job” …
Dealing drugs and stolen weapons!
Why ?

Dude you can be as pissed off about the problem as you want, but defending this bill is no better then someone trying to force the US to bankrupt itself by paying extra money for all the oil we burn. You’ve noticed a real problem, but the solution you’re promoting is ass backwards and insane.

11 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:54:42pm

re: #4 LudwigVanQuixote

“To govern is to populate” is a direct quote from Hitler’s 1929 Nuremberg address.

I sounds like Hitler, too. It fits right in with his obsession with expanding the “Aryan Race” both in amount of space and population numbers. The former part of that obsession proven Hitler’s undoing, for it lead him to attack the Soviet Union, thereby starting a battle that Germany had little chance of winning.

12 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:55:05pm

re: #3 freetoken

Repost from downstairs:

AL Gubernatorial Candidate Tim James Calls His English-Only Ad ‘Just Common Sense’

Between the Arizonans and their laws, my own Congressman (Hunter) with his statement about wanting to deport children born in this country, and this guy James and his “roadway safety” bullcrap… I’d say the GOP has had a rousingly good xenophobic week, eh?

Repost my response….

Also if the son of a bitch was actually crazy enough to do this they’d no longer be in compliance with federal regulations, the good news for anyone in any of the other 49 states is that we can use the money we won’t be sending to Alabama to pay down the national debt!

13 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:56:06pm

re: #8 Floral Giraffe

I think the Nazi meme is being overused. Not that what this bill is trying to do, is right. I just think that comparing it to the Nazi’s demeans what the Holocaust was.

Damn it Floral, I lost family to those monsters back in Europe. I am saying this with the utmost respect for my very own dead.

That is a direct quote from Hitler, like it or not. It was made by a Eugenics preaching fellow who wants to keep America white and has a notion that there are different species of humans.

I know a Nazi when I see one.

These fuckers are nazis.

14 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:56:24pm

re: #11 Dark_Falcon

It sounds like Hitler, too. It fits right in with his obsession with expanding the “Aryan Race” both in amount of space and population numbers. The former part of that obsession proven Hitler’s undoing, for it lead him to attack the Soviet Union, thereby starting a battle that Germany had little chance of winning.

PIMF

15 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:56:55pm

re: #11 Dark_Falcon

I sounds like Hitler, too. It fits right in with his obsession with expanding the “Aryan Race” both in amount of space and population numbers. The former part of that obsession proven Hitler’s undoing, for it lead him to attack the Soviet Union, thereby starting a battle that Germany had little chance of winning.

Confucius says, impetuous youth who pokes sleeping lion soon become kiddy kitty kibble…

(I know I should have used something involving bears but I’m not that awake right now…)

16 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:58:33pm

re: #10 jamesfirecat

Not promoting a solution of any kind friend!

17 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 8:58:42pm

re: #9 LudwigVanQuixote

Cliffster, stop your kneejerk dings. That is a direct quote from that address that I have quoted here twice. Care to dispute that fact? Care to address how the asshole who founded this is actually a nazi.

SPLC has no credibility while we are at it?

LVQ, I gave up on trying to have an intelligent conversation with you the last time you made accusations of me being a bad person and drew kneejerk conclusions about the points I was making. I’m sorry it’s difficult for you to think clearly on political topics, but the net-net is that I don’t discuss them with you. I will, however, continue to downding you when you say stupid shit.

18 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:00:08pm

re: #13 LudwigVanQuixote

Damn it Floral, I lost family to those monsters back in Europe. I am saying this with the utmost respect for my very own dead.
That is a direct quote from Hitler, like it or not. It was made by a Eugenics preaching fellow who wants to keep America white and has a notion that there are different species of humans.
I know a Nazi when I see one.
These fuckers are nazis.

You have the right to call these people what you choose to call them.
I am NOT denying your losses in the past.
I am trying to politely say, that we are not talking about death camps, tattoos, or trains to nowhere. I am trying to discuss securing our borders, and finding a path to integrate the immigrants, already here. Before we let any more in. I think that’s fair, to the legal immigrants here, who have spent YEARS getting legal. Why should an illegal immigrant get a free pass on the US laws?

19 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:01:27pm

From a simple fishing guide, a suggestion that would have been a simple solution to this oil spill:

Cade Thomas, a fishing guide in Venice, worried that his livelihood will be destroyed. He said he did not know whether to blame the Coast Guard, the federal government or oil company BP PLC.

“They lied to us. They came out and said it was leaking 1,000 barrels when I think they knew it was more. And they weren’t proactive,” he said. “As soon as it blew up, they should have started wrapping it with booms.”

May have contained enough of it for long enough to get other measures started.

20 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:01:29pm

re: #17 cliffster

Fling an insult, get a downding.

21 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:02:21pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

Fling an insult, get a downding.

Completely miss a guy being a complete asshole to me over and over again, get a downding.

22 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:02:32pm

re: #18 Floral Giraffe

You have the right to call these people what you choose to call them.
I am NOT denying your losses in the past.
I am trying to politely say, that we are not talking about death camps, tattoos, or trains to nowhere. I am trying to discuss securing our borders, and finding a path to integrate the immigrants, already here. Before we let any more in. I think that’s fair, to the legal immigrants here, who have spent YEARS getting legal. Why should an illegal immigrant get a free pass on the US laws?

Votes. Period.

23 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:02:34pm

re: #17 cliffster

LVQ, I gave up on trying to have an intelligent conversation with you the last time you made accusations of me being a bad person and drew kneejerk conclusions about the points I was making. I’m sorry it’s difficult for you to think clearly on political topics, but the net-net is that I don’t discuss them with you. I will, however, continue to downding you when you say stupid shit.

Quote from Hitler:

When we examine the concept of power more closely, we see that power has three factors: First, in the numerical size of the population itself. This form of power is no longer present in Germany.

62 million people who seem to hold together are no longer a power factor in a world in which groups with 400 million are increasingly active, nations for which their population is their major tool of economic policy.

If numbers themselves are no longer a power factor, the second factor is territory. This, too, is no longer a power factor for us, even seeming laughable when one can fly across our German territory in a mere four hours. That is no longer an amount of territory that provides its own defense, as is the case with Russia. Its size alone is a means of security. If the first two sources of power, population and territory, are inadequate, there remains always the third, that which rests in the inner strength of a people. A nation can do astounding things when it carries this power in its own internal values. When, however, we examine the German people, we must to our horror see that this last power factor is no longer present.

Truly these three points that form the intrinsic strength of a people are no longer regarded in Germany. The opposite. As I have said, today one places no value on our blood, on the intrinsic value of our race, but rather apostles proclaim that it is completely irrelevant whether one is Chinese, Kaffir, or Indian. If a nation internalizes such thinking, its own values are of no use. It has renounced the protection of its values, for they too must be protected and encouraged.

That leads to what the large parties proclaim, namely to a nation that thinks internationally, follows the path of democracy, rejects struggle, and preaches pacifism. A people that has accepted these three human burdens, that has given up its racial values, preaches internationalism, that limits its great minds, and has replaced them with the majority, that is inability in all areas, rejecting the individual mind and praising human brotherhood, such a people has lost its intrinsic values.

Now read this. Understand it and stop dodging the facts.

What is white separatism? What about educability statements? What are these sorts of folks are these?

Look at the reality. Watch this video.

These folks are fucking Nazis.

24 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:03:19pm

re: #7 reloadingisnotahobby

If you lay down with dogs, you’re going to get fleas. I don’t care who this piece of shit is against, I will not compromise my principals by supporting legislation written by white supremacist. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

25 erraticsphinx  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:04:22pm

re: #23 LudwigVanQuixote


I really don’t like comparisons to Nazis….but I think LVQ is not wrong here.

FAIR has taken money from neo-nazis and “racialist” organizations.

Walks like…..quacks like…

26 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:04:31pm

re: #23 LudwigVanQuixote

Now read this. Understand it and stop dodging the facts.

What is white separatism? What about educability statements? What are these sorts of folks are these?

Look at the reality. Watch this video.

These folks are fucking Nazis.

I hate Illinois Arizona Nazis..

27 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:05:10pm

re: #18 Floral Giraffe

You have the right to call these people what you choose to call them.
I am NOT denying your losses in the past.
I am trying to politely say, that we are not talking about death camps, tattoos, or trains to nowhere. I am trying to discuss securing our borders, and finding a path to integrate the immigrants, already here. Before we let any more in. I think that’s fair, to the legal immigrants here, who have spent YEARS getting legal. Why should an illegal immigrant get a free pass on the US laws?

I am not talking about that either.

I have said over and over that these folks sound exactly like the early Nazis.

Erectus walks among us - black folks are apes?

Eugenics?

I have said that we are not in a nazi state yest. I have said that these people are using the same memes as the Nazis and many are themselves actual Nazis. Right?

They are using the same words and the same ideas. This is a nascent movement. But it is still something that the early Nazis would recognize.

28 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:05:29pm

re: #21 cliffster

Completely miss a guy being a complete asshole to me over and over again, get a downding.

Ludwig upbraided you for what he felt were pointless downdings, but he did not insult you. You, however, reacted with a insult, and so you got the downding.

29 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:06:36pm

re: #23 LudwigVanQuixote

These folks are fucking Nazis


It gives me no pleasure to upding that statement.

30 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:06:36pm

re: #24 McSpiff

For the record, I’m not saying nothing should be done. I’d just rather see people who aren’t evil fucks writing the legislation. Give me honest legislation, that attempts to deal with the real issues involved and isn’t simply “Durr Hurr Brown people commit crimes” and we’ll talk. This legislation ain’t it.

31 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:07:12pm

re: #26 jamesfirecat

I hate Illinois Arizona Nazis..

32 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:08:08pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

Ludwig upbraided you for what he felt were pointless downdings, but he did not insult you. You, however, reacted with a insult, and so you got the downding.

Sorry, dude, Ludwig has over and over again made stupid accusations of me being a basically bad human being. Me pointing that out to him is perfectly warranted. I’m sorry you don’t approve.

33 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:08:23pm

re: #24 McSpiff

He is an ASSHOLE!
Why are they putting his face and words at the forefront of a debate on National Security and States Rights?

34 bratwurst  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:08:53pm

re: #9 LudwigVanQuixote

SPLC has no credibility while we are at it?

Outrageous. When you hear someone says this, it is time to strongly consider that you might well be listening to listening to an idiot and/or a racist arsehole.

35 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:09:30pm

re: #33 reloadingisnotahobby

Because the bums in the AZ capital decided to listen to these fools?

36 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:09:45pm

re: #34 bratwurst

Outrageous. When you hear someone says this, it is time to strongly consider that you might well be listening to listening to an idiot and/or a racist arsehole.

oh yeah. First step: attack the people who do the research.

37 Bagua  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:10:06pm

re: #25 erraticsphinx

[…]

Walks like…quacks like…

This sort of lazy thinking blunts the unique horror of what the real Nazi’s did. Their place is unique in history and the few that remain will soon die off.

Walking and quacking like a Nazi is to be neo-Nazi, many groups currently deserve that label, but use the term correctly.

38 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:10:39pm

re: #27 LudwigVanQuixote

I am not talking about that either.
I have said over and over that these folks sound exactly like the early Nazis.
Erectus walks among us - black folks are apes?
Eugenics?
I have said that we are not in a nazi state yest. I have said that these people are using the same memes as the Nazis and many are themselves actual Nazis. Right?
They are using the same words and the same ideas. This is a nascent movement. But it is still something that the early Nazis would recognize.

I hear what you are saying.
I am saying that I do not hear a “racial purity” message in the Arizona Bill.
I don’t hear an Aryan nation in it, not even deep in the underbrush, of whisperings below the surface. It may be there, and I am not hearing it. What I am hearing , is an expression of the frustration of those who live with the lack of enforcement of the exsisting laws on immigration. And, I see the politics of crossing the border to evade prosecution, like Pancho Villa played it. IIRC the Apache Nation also played across the border. And, in both instances, it took Federal intervention to resolve the issue.
Be well, my friend.
None of this, is worth losing a friend over.
Rhetoric, isn’t worth it.

39 jaunte  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:10:42pm

Dan Stein is sure using the “out of context” excuse a lot.

40 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:10:43pm

re: #18 Floral Giraffe

Before we let any more in. I think that’s fair, to the legal immigrants here, who have spent YEARS getting legal. Why should an illegal immigrant get a free pass on the US laws?

I have never said that we should just open the boarders or allow illegal immigration. I am all for making as certain as possible that only legal residents are here.

However, that is not the point of this bill however much people may try to spin it. It certainly was not the motivation of these Nazi scum who penned it.

If you really want to help the illegals and solve the problem you go after the folks who exploit them and dry up the money.

41 cineaste  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:10:55pm

re: #7 reloadingisnotahobby

Give it a FUCKING REST!!!
Can you name ONE Canadian gang?
Eskimo gang?
…Native American Gang?
Jewish gang?
We lost a Deputy Sheriff here to a POS that had been
deported 3 times…went back to the same “job” …
Dealing drugs and stolen weapons!
Why ?

? Have you never heard of Dutch Schultz, Longi Zwillman and Murder Inc? What about black gangs? What about white supremacist gangs? What about the Russian Mob? What about the Italian Mob. What about the Irish Mob?

Yep, it’s only the latinos who deal drugs and kill people… Hell, even the Amish have gangs you nitwit.

42 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:11:20pm

re: #13 LudwigVanQuixote

Damn it Floral, I lost family to those monsters back in Europe. I am saying this with the utmost respect for my very own dead.

That is a direct quote from Hitler, like it or not. It was made by a Eugenics preaching fellow who wants to keep America white and has a notion that there are different species of humans.

I know a Nazi when I see one.

These fuckers are nazis.

This AZ law is stupidity and awfulness.

But I think it’s also true that people in Arizona are feeling under seige from the very dangerous criminal element sneaking into their state. They have a reasonable concern (although this law is not the solution), and I think it’s important that their concerns are recognized, just as we can recognize that this law is terrible.

If the folks responsible for the security of our borders (Washington, DC, going back for decades) had done their jobs instead of bowing to pressures, then perhaps AZ would not have become so desperate that they felt they needed their own law. And if the folks responsible for the security of our borders don’t take this as a wake-up call and figure out how to deal with these problems, I’m afraid other states will take it upon themselves to try to deal with, with similarly awful laws.

Calling those who had input into this law Nazis - it may be absolutely true!
But it does nothing to help the folks in AZ. What could help them is communication with your congress-critters that DC needs to wake up and figure this out.

43 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:11:24pm

re: #29 Killgore Trout

It gives me no pleasure to upding that statement.

It makes me nauseated to have to make it.

44 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:11:24pm

re: #33 reloadingisnotahobby

He is an ASSHOLE!
Why are they putting his face and words at the forefront of a debate on National Security and States Rights?

Because FAIR is so tone deaf that those who are not fascists don’t understand how bad Nazis sound to freedom-loving people.

45 engineer cat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:11:45pm

it would seem that an objective nazi test, if such a thing were possible, would be very useful considering the state of political debate in this country at the moment

yet, when racism, which is much easier to define, is present, nazism can hardly be far off

46 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:12:01pm

re: #36 WindUpBird

oh yeah. First step: attack the people who do the research.

/I’m not racist, it’s the fact that people keep bringing up the fact that I’m racist our truly racist! If they’d just stay quite it’d all be good, because then I wouldn’t be racist because no one would be accusing me of being racist!

47 swamprat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:12:13pm

”Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose”.

I full well expect some moron to defend FAIR.

Fjordman(s), of the world, we are waiting.
Please tell us how we have to accept this vile garbage in order to save…our race, or America, or the so-called white culture (tuna salad sandwiches on mushy cotton?) Or whatever half-assed justification you think is acceptable for America to give up everthing she stands for, so that you can assage your lack of self worth by telling yourself that your racial background makes you better than other people rather than actually demonstrating it by doing something worthwhile.

And no, I did not watch the video. I have heard this song before, and it is disgusting.

48 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:12:43pm

re: #42 reine.de.tout

This AZ law is stupidity and awfulness.

But I think it’s also true that people in Arizona are feeling under seige from the very dangerous criminal element sneaking into their state. They have a reasonable concern (although this law is not the solution), and I think it’s important that their concerns are recognized, just as we can recognize that this law is terrible.

I thought violent crime in AZ has been going down?

49 122 Year Old Obama  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:13:11pm

In response to the Hitler analogies:
tvtropes.org
:D

//

50 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:13:16pm

re: #41 cineaste

? Have you never heard of Dutch Schultz, Longi Zwillman and Murder Inc? What about black gangs? What about white supremacist gangs? What about the Russian Mob? What about the Italian Mob. What about the Irish Mob?

Yep, it’s only the latinos who deal drugs and kill people… Hell, even the Amish have gangs you nitwit.

I hear they’re cornering the market in counterfit butter churns next!

51 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:13:40pm

re: #7 reloadingisnotahobby

Give it a FUCKING REST!!!
Can you name ONE Canadian gang?
Eskimo gang?
…Native American Gang?
Jewish gang?
We lost a Deputy Sheriff here to a POS that had been
deported 3 times…went back to the same “job” …
Dealing drugs and stolen weapons!
Why ?

Why?
Because bad shit happens and it could have just as easily been some American citizen who killed that sheriff.
Does something need to be done?
Of course.

Btw, is AZ crime rates any worse then the rest of the country?

And yes, every ethnic group has gangs and/or organized criminals.

52 Cineaste  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:13:50pm

re: #19 reine.de.tout

From a simple fishing guide, a suggestion that would have been a simple solution to this oil spill:

May have contained enough of it for long enough to get other measures started.

Not sure that would have helped so much. The oil isn’t coming from a surface leak, it’s being spit out of a leaking head on the well, 5000 feet down. By the time that oil gets to the surface it has already spread far and wide.

53 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:13:56pm

re: #35 McSpiff

Because the bums in the AZ capital decided to listen to these fools?

I think the “folks at the Capital are listening to the majority
of the citizens of Arizona!
How much weight do think this idiot has??
…As much as the media and we give him!
Fuck that racist bastard and give him no air time!

54 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:14:10pm

re: #42 reine.de.tout

This AZ law is stupidity and awfulness.

But I think it’s also true that people in Arizona are feeling under seige from the very dangerous criminal element sneaking into their state. They have a reasonable concern (although this law is not the solution), and I think it’s important that their concerns are recognized, just as we can recognize that this law is terrible.

If the folks responsible for the security of our borders (Washington, DC, going back for decades) had done their jobs instead of bowing to pressures, then perhaps AZ would not have become so desperate that they felt they needed their own law. And if the folks responsible for the security of our borders don’t take this as a wake-up call and figure out how to deal with these problems, I’m afraid other states will take it upon themselves to try to deal with, with similarly awful laws.

Calling those who had input into this law Nazis - it may be absolutely true!
But it does nothing to help the folks in AZ. What could help them is communication with your congress-critters that DC needs to wake up and figure this out.

And the GOP scuttled their own president when he tried to.

Just like they dropped the climate bill over this - or at least used that as an excuse.

Look, if you really want to solve this issue it is super simple, you go after the people who are paying for it. You prosecute the employers who are breaking the law - and you enforce the minimum wage. Justice would be that you have the back salaries of illegals paid by the employer up to minimum wage in one fat check handed to the illegal before he was deported. However, the GOP won’t have that.

55 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:14:37pm

re: #48 WindUpBird

I thought violent crime in AZ has been going down?

Maybe. But this is from a year ago.
judicialwatch.org

56 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:15:03pm

For the record, I am against calling human beings “aliens”. Talk about dehumanization!

Call them immigrants, legal or illegal. Don’t try to jerk my feelings around by making me think of things with gills, fins, hyperbaric breathing chambers or big, alligator-toothed mouths with smaller mouths that stick out and suck your blood when you’re angry.

We might as well talk about “illegal vampires”.

57 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:15:26pm

re: #37 Bagua

I’d almost consider these groups proto-Nazi. They aren’t saying the United States should bow down before the Swastika, they’re just really concerned about some of the same things Hitler wrote about in Mein Kamf. They’re walking a similar road, or at least parallel. But I don’t think I’d use the term Nazi or even Neo-Nazi for the reasons you listed. If we’re waiting to see “Arbeit macht frei”, we’ll miss the real warning signs. Because I don’t think they have any intention of erecting that sign.

58 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:16:13pm

re: #53 reloadingisnotahobby

I think the “folks at the Capital are listening to the majority
of the citizens of Arizona!
How much weight do think this idiot has??
…As much as the media and we give him!
Fuck that racist bastard and give him no air time!

No, f*** this racist bastard and give him lots of air time. Everyone should know where and what he stands for.

The racists among us should be given a great huge spotlight so no one can miss when they throw tomatoes at them.

59 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:16:17pm

re: #52 Cineaste

Not sure that would have helped so much. The oil isn’t coming from a surface leak, it’s being spit out of a leaking head on the well, 5000 feet down. By the time that oil gets to the surface it has already spread far and wide.

Well, they know or could have estimated how much it would spread and could have planned accordingly.

And does it spread? It doesn’t actually disperse in the water, does it? I thought it was waves and wind that cause it to disperse.

60 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:16:21pm

re: #34 bratwurst

Outrageous. When you hear someone says this, it is time to strongly consider that you might well be listening to listening to an idiot and/or a racist arsehole.

Amen! And that by the way Floral is the Aryan nation part in the underbrush. SPLC took out the Klan and many Neo Nazi groups. Hating them means you like the other two.

61 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:16:49pm

re: #56 Cato the Elder

For the record, I am against calling human beings “aliens”. Talk about dehumanization!

Call them immigrants, legal or illegal. Don’t try to jerk my feelings around by making me think of things with gills, fins, hyperbaric breathing chambers or big, alligator-toothed mouths with smaller mouths that stick out and suck your blood when you’re angry.

We might as well talk about “illegal vampires”.

I vant to cross your border!

62 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:17:30pm

re: #56 Cato the Elder

For the record, I am against calling human beings “aliens”. Talk about dehumanization!

Call them immigrants, legal or illegal. Don’t try to jerk my feelings around by making me think of things with gills, fins, hyperbaric breathing chambers or big, alligator-toothed mouths with smaller mouths that stick out and suck your blood when you’re angry.

We might as well talk about “illegal vampires”.

Don’t give them any ideas. Sucking the lifeblood from us is exactly what they want people to think is going on.

63 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:17:32pm

re: #53 reloadingisnotahobby

I think the “folks at the Capital are listening to the majority
of the citizens of Arizona!
How much weight do think this idiot has??
…As much as the media and we give him!
Fuck that racist bastard and give him no air time!

How much of what the the majority of the citizens of Arizona think they know is actually true.

Are illegals committing more violent crimes the American citizens?
What are the crime rates in Arizona compared to other parts of the country.

For that matter are illegals more violent then American citizens?

(and of course when someone is found out to be an illegal alien the laws already on the books should be followed.)

64 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:17:33pm

re: #54 LudwigVanQuixote

And the GOP scuttled their own president when he tried to.

Just like they dropped the climate bill over this - or at least used that as an excuse.

Look, if you really want to solve this issue it is super simple, you go after the people who are paying for it. You prosecute the employers who are breaking the law - and you enforce the minimum wage. Justice would be that you have the back salaries of illegals paid by the employer up to minimum wage in one fat check handed to the illegal before he was deported. However, the GOP won’t have that.

LVQ - I don’t disagree that that our politicians at the federal level have dropped the ball. But it ain’t just the GOP; the Dems loooooooove that Hispanic vote.

And I don’t see much of anything happening right now.

65 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:17:59pm

Just got finished watching the vid. I wonder if Dan Stein is in fact Jewish. If he is, then he is doubly foolish for hanging around with Nazis like that. Once they’ve ‘dealt with’ Hispanics, they’ll turn on any Jews around.

66 swamprat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:18:10pm

Godwin always hits a nerve.
But I would submit that it might be appropriate in this case.
Take a close look.

and my previous post should have used the word “assuage”.

Assuage.

67 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:19:14pm

re: #56 Cato the Elder

For the record, I am against calling human beings “aliens”. Talk about dehumanization!

Call them immigrants, legal or illegal. Don’t try to jerk my feelings around by making me think of things with gills, fins, hyperbaric breathing chambers or big, alligator-toothed mouths with smaller mouths that stick out and suck your blood when you’re angry.

We might as well talk about “illegal vampires”.


al·ien
   /ˈeɪlyən, ˈeɪliən/ Show Spelled[eyl-yuhn, ey-lee-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).

2.
a foreigner.
3.
a person who has been estranged or excluded.
4.
a creature from outer space; extraterrestrial.

68 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:19:49pm

re: #64 reine.de.tout

LVQ - I don’t disagree that that our politicians at the federal level have dropped the ball. But it ain’t just the GOP; the Dems looove that Hispanic vote.

And I don’t see much of anything happening right now.

You know what, that is fair.

The GOP gets paid by the exploiters of the immigrants and the Dems exploit the sensibilities of Latinos.

You are correct.

Neither of course would be willing to do what is right and obvious.

I agree that both suck.

69 erraticsphinx  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:19:59pm

re: #37 Bagua

News flash. The Nazis had to start somewhere, “Kill all the Jews!” wasn’t exactly their rallying cry to get to power. A far more insidious way of pandering to xenophobia, and lamenting about the heroic past of the Nordic race was their way to get into “normal” people’s heads.

I feel very comfortable calling these people Nazis, whatever prefix you want to put on it.

70 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:20:26pm

My issue with the term Nazi or Fascism as applied to American/Canadian politics, summed up in easy poster form:

chicksontheright.com

For the record this was a popular image during the Bush days, so take from it what you will.

71 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:20:39pm

re: #63 webevintage

How much of what the the majority of the citizens of Arizona think they know is actually true.

Are illegals committing more violent crimes the American citizens?
What are the crime rates in Arizona compared to other parts of the country.

For that matter are illegals more violent then American citizens?

(and of course when someone is found out to be an illegal alien the laws already on the books should be followed.)

Mexican Cartels Make Phoenix U.S. Kidnap Capital

From Cannadian Club Akbar, upthread a bit.

72 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:21:21pm

re: #70 McSpiff

My issue with the term Nazi or Fascism as applied to American/Canadian politics, summed up in easy poster form:

[Link: chicksontheright.com…]

For the record this was a popular image during the Bush days, so take from it what you will.

Well, I’d be that obvious.
:shrugs:

73 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:21:35pm

re: #68 LudwigVanQuixote

You know what, that is fair.

The GOP gets paid by the exploiters of the immigrants and the Dems exploit the sensibilities of Latinos.

You are correct.

Neither of course would be willing to do what is right and obvious.

I agree that both suck.

On this issue, yes, they both suck.

74 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:21:36pm

re: #47 swamprat

”Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose”.

I full well expect some moron to defend FAIR.

Fjordman(s), of the world, we are waiting.
Please tell us how we have to accept this vile garbage in order to save…our race, or America, or the so-called white culture (tuna salad sandwiches on mushy cotton?) Or whatever half-assed justification you think is acceptable for America to give up everthing she stands for, so that you can assage your lack of self worth by telling yourself that your racial background makes you better than other people rather than actually demonstrating it by doing something worthwhile.

And no, I did not watch the video. I have heard this song before, and it is disgusting.

Indeed - though the original German lyrics have a sort of growl to them that makes them more easy for many to recognize.

75 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:21:46pm

re: #67 reine.de.tout

Thank you. I was talking about the pop-culture implications, which I think are significant.

Ever watched “District 9”?

76 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:21:58pm

re: #72 Varek Raith

Well, I’d be that obvious.
:shrugs:

But can they dance? Heh.

77 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:22:00pm

re: #63 webevintage

How much of what the the majority of the citizens of Arizona think they know is actually true.

Are illegals committing more violent crimes the American citizens?
What are the crime rates in Arizona compared to other parts of the country.

For that matter are illegals more violent then American citizens?

(and of course when someone is found out to be an illegal alien the laws already on the books should be followed.)

Arizona homicides per capita: # 22 Arizona: 0.168 per 1 million people

statemaster.com

2001 stats.

78 Cineaste  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:22:00pm

re: #59 reine.de.tout

Well, they know or could have estimated how much it would spread and could have planned accordingly.

And does it spread? It doesn’t actually disperse in the water, does it? I thought it was waves and wind that cause it to disperse.

It doesn’t dissolve in water (part of the problem). It does spread. Think of it this way, you release a drop of oil, 5000’ down, that drop then drifts to the surface because oil floats on water. In the course of that journey to the surface, all the underwater currents push and pull that drop. By the time it reaches the surface it might be miles away from the well head. Those currents change throughout the day from the tides and voila, you have oil spread across a colossal area. Sadly it’s much, much harder than putting a boom around a leaking ship.

79 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:22:06pm

re: #41 cineaste

Did they walk across our border by the thousand per month??
Take your nitwit and shove it!
The gangs you mention are not at issue!
Take a walk in east L.A. ,Fresno,Bakersfield,Yuma, Las Vegas..etc with a
Rolex in your 2010 BMW!
I’ll take odds you lose both if not your life!
Been there done that!
…I drove repo for 4 years in So.Cal in the 80’s…Still carry a little lead
and plenty of scars!

80 Bagua  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:22:15pm

According to ADL National Director Abraham H. Foxman:

“No matter how odious, bigoted, biased and unconstitutional Arizona’s new law may be, let’s be clear that there is no comparison between the situation facing immigrants, legal or illegal, in Arizona and what happened in the Holocaust. Let’s remember that the Nazi identity cards were part and parcel of a plan to force Jews into ghettos and for their ultimate deportation to extermination camps.”

Link

81 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:23:10pm

re: #75 Cato the Elder

Thank you. I was talking about the pop-culture implications, which I think are significant.

Ever watched “District 9”?

*shudder*
yes, what a creepy movie. I couldn’t stop watching it, though!

I actually do get your point, and agree that “illegal immigrant” might be easier on the ears, as we are talking about humans.

82 freetoken  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:23:13pm

re: #69 erraticsphinx

From my limited understanding of history, the National Socialists came to power due to economic malaise, and the suppressed nationalism, of Germans.

83 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:23:59pm

re: #73 reine.de.tout

re: #74 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #79 reloadingisnotahobby

I think that we all agree that immigration is a “hot button” issue.
And, that there are very many facets to it, and the solution is not a simple one. I appreciate the conversations on the issue!

84 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:24:23pm

re: #75 Cato the Elder

Thank you. I was talking about the pop-culture implications, which I think are significant.

Ever watched “District 9”?

Have any historically clueless friends in the 20-30 year old range who saw this movie? Other than me? Blow their minds with one link: en.wikipedia.org

85 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:24:24pm

re: #72 Varek Raith

Well, I’d be that obvious.
:shrugs:

Yes, but you also told me to make sure the Stormtrooper parade had fly-bys by our new TIE Defenders and Scimitar Assault Bombers. It took a while to get them working, so the parade had to start without them. Sorry about that. You can Force-Choke the lead tech if it will help.

/Stay on Target!

86 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:24:45pm

re: #67 reine.de.tout

al·ien
   /ˈeɪlyən, ˈeɪliən/ Show Spelled[eyl-yuhn, ey-lee-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).

2.
a foreigner.
3.
a person who has been estranged or excluded.
4.
a creature from outer space; extraterrestrial.

Dude you can say that the “N” word can trace its roots linguistically back to mean someone who is a miser (niggardly with money) but that doesn’t mean that its the image people associate with the word.

When people hear “Alien” they think E. T not Jaun….

87 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:25:04pm

re: #83 Floral Giraffe

re: #74 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #79 reloadingisnotahobby

I think that we all agree that immigration is a “hot button” issue.
And, that there are very many facets to it, and the solution is not a simple one. I appreciate the conversations on the issue!

{FLO)
You’re such a sweetie!

I agree there is no simple solution.
But there needs to be one, and soon, I think.

88 erraticsphinx  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:25:58pm

re: #82 freetoken

It was a toxic mixture of wanting their old territory back (I forget the word, starts with an “r”), the economy, the humiliation of Germany after WWI, and yeah, just plain old racism in an attractive package.

89 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:26:00pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Reine ain’t a dude.

90 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:26:34pm

re: #87 reine.de.tout

{FLO)
You’re such a sweetie!

I agree there is no simple solution.
But there needs to be one, and soon, I think.

Well, I think the fact that we are at least discussing the issue, is moving in the right direction. It’s not a simple problem, and it’s NOT going to have a simple solution.

91 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:26:55pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Dude you can say that the “N” word can trace its roots linguistically back to mean someone who is a miser (niggardly with money) but that doesn’t mean that its the image people associate with the word.

When people hear “Alien” they think E. T not Jaun…

OK, James.
Calm down.
I was just trying to piss off Cato.
Besides, “alien” doesn’t trace back to anything, it means exactly what it means.

And I’m actually a “dudette”.

92 jaunte  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:27:06pm

re: #89 Cannadian Club Akbar

Reine ain’t a dude.

That’s practically a tradition.

93 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:27:25pm

re: #89 Cannadian Club Akbar

Reine ain’t a dude.

A Gal Queen am I!

94 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:27:40pm

So crime is down in Arizona:
cnn.com

Except for the kidnapping for ransom stuff:
latimes.com

“Phoenix police say they have never lost a victim during a rescue attempt. But detectives wondered how long their record would hold, and how long they could stave off the violence that has left more than 8,000 people dead in Mexico in the last two years.”

I guess the question I have then are the kidnappings being done illegal to illegal or are they kidnapping American citizens and people here legally?
(not that it would make it OK if they are only kidnapping other people here illegally.)

95 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:27:57pm

re: #93 reine.de.tout

A Gal Queen am I!

AND FABULOUS!!!! :)

96 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:28:05pm

re: #92 jaunte

That’s practically a tradition.

Well, that and people using my actual real name.
LOL.

97 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:28:45pm

re: #95 Cannadian Club Akbar

AND FABULOUS!!! :)

*blush*
Of course!

98 Cineaste  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:28:49pm

re: #79 reloadingisnotahobby

Did they walk across our border by the thousand per month??
Take your nitwit and shove it!
The gangs you mention are not at issue!
Take a walk in east L.A. ,Fresno,Bakersfield,Yuma, Las Vegas..etc with a
Rolex in your 2010 BMW!
I’ll take odds you lose both if not your life!
Been there done that!
…I drove repo for 4 years in So.Cal in the 80’s…Still carry a little lead
and plenty of scars!

Good point. The Irish, the Italians, the Russians, the whites, the blacks… none of them came from somewhere else.

I’m fine with building a fence and making people come in legally. I’m not fine with:

1) Making my wife, who is hispanic and born a US citizen in New York, think whether she has to bring a birth certificate when travelling in Arizona because she might be detained as suspicious.

2) Having any person in this country, regardless of immigration status, being afraid to come forward as a witness to a crime.

99 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:28:50pm

re: #89 Cannadian Club Akbar

Reine ain’t a dude.

Dude

100 Racer X  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:29:30pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

Mexican Cartels Make Phoenix U.S. Kidnap Capital

From Cannadian Club Akbar, upthread a bit.

A major U.S. city long known as an illegal immigrant sanctuary has the nation’s highest rate of ransom kidnappings, virtually all of them connected to Mexican drug cartels that have penetrated the area in the last few years.

Federal law enforcement officials have crowned Phoenix the country’s kidnap-for-ransom capital, according to a news report published this week. Arizona’s largest city, also the nation’s fifth most populous, by far has more ransom kidnappings than any other U.S. municipality and most every victim and suspect is connected to Mexican drug smugglers from Sinaloa which is located along the Pacific Coast several hours south of Arizona.

Easy to see why people living in Arizona are wanting something to change.

101 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:29:41pm

re: #94 webevintage

So crime is down in Arizona:
[Link: www.cnn.com…]

Except for the kidnapping for ransom stuff:
[Link: www.latimes.com…]

“Phoenix police say they have never lost a victim during a rescue attempt. But detectives wondered how long their record would hold, and how long they could stave off the violence that has left more than 8,000 people dead in Mexico in the last two years.”

I guess the question I have then are the kidnappings being done illegal to illegal or are they kidnapping American citizens and people here legally?
(not that it would make it OK if they are only kidnapping other people here illegally.)

I would think that the criminal activity would make it dangerous for anyone around or nearby, regardless of status.

102 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:29:42pm

re: #94 webevintage

My guess? You got money, I’ll kidnap you. Drug gangs don’t care where you are from.
PS. I wouldn’t actually kidnap you.

103 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:30:07pm

re: #91 reine.de.tout

OK, James.
Calm down.
I was just trying to piss off Cato.
Besides, “alien” doesn’t trace back to anything, it means exactly what it means.

And I’m actually a “dudette”.

I was using “dude” like a surfer (its late at night)

Anyway I’m just arguing that what it says in the dictionary about a word for better or worse maters little compared to the public perception/common usage of that word.

If we asked a 100 people to describe an alien for us, how many do you think would talk about Mexican immigrants and how many do you think would talk about Ewoks, Wookies, Ferengi, Vulcans, Romulans, and so on and so forth?

104 Cato the Elder  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:30:12pm

re: #86 jamesfirecat

Dude you can say that the “N” word can trace its roots linguistically back to mean someone who is a miser (niggardly with money) but that doesn’t mean that its the image people associate with the word.

When people hear “Alien” they think E. T not Jaun…

No you can’t. You can’t say that at all. The two words - the “n-word” and “niggard” - have nothing historically or etymologically in common. One is Latin and means “black” and the other is from Middle English and means “stingy”.

Do not try to be a language poser while I’m on the board, or I will not be niggardly about my abuse of your ignorance.

105 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:30:22pm

re: #88 erraticsphinx

It was a toxic mixture of wanting their old territory back (I forget the word, starts with an “r”), the economy, the humiliation of Germany after WWI, and yeah, just plain old racism in an attractive package.

The territories in question were the Sudetenland part of Czechoslovakia, West Prussia (given to Poland), and Alsace-Lorraine (France). The Rhineland was not taken from Germany but Germany was forbidden to place troops in it.

106 jaunte  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:30:44pm

re: #94 webevintage


I guess the question I have then are the kidnappings being done illegal to illegal or are they kidnapping American citizens and people here legally?
(not that it would make it OK if they are only kidnapping other people here illegally.)

Illegal immigrants are a vulnerable population. Did you see this article about the hazards of traveling through Mexico?

Kidnappings of migrants, mainly for ransom, reached new heights in 2009, with the National Human Rights Commission (CNDH) reporting that nearly 10,000 were abducted over six months and almost half of interviewed victims saying that public officials were involved in their kidnapping.
amnesty.org
107 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:30:44pm

re: #82 freetoken

From my limited understanding of history, the National Socialists came to power due to economic malaise, and the suppressed nationalism, of Germans.

And they used a message that a corrupt and weak government was loyal to foreigners before Germany (sound familiar?),

that the real Germans couldn’t make it in Germany anymore because of those traitors within (sound familiar?),

that Communists secretly controlled the government and would take over and destroy all German liberties (sound familiar)

and pitched all manner of outrageous conspiracy theories (sound familiar) all designed to play upon the racial fears of Germans who felt they had no control over their lives (sound familiar)

It was backed by well funded industrialists who spread a disproportionate voice to the movement through the media. (Sound familiar?)

108 reloadingisnotahobby  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:30:52pm

re: #87 reine.de.tout

{FLO)
You’re such a sweetie!

I agree there is no simple solution.
But there needs to be one, and soon, I think.

My solution is a steak and an ice cream and sleep on it!!
My world view is tainted….
Sadly ,by losing friends and witnessing senseless violence within
40 to 100 ft of my home!No, they were not all “south of the border
perps”!
The old old saw…” It has to start with you”!!
Is now,”It has to stop now”!!

109 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:31:27pm

re: #103 jamesfirecat

I was using “dude” like a surfer (its late at night)

Anyway I’m just arguing that what it says in the dictionary about a word for better or worse maters little compared to the public perception/common usage of that word.

If we asked a 100 people to describe an alien for us, how many do you think would talk about Mexican immigrants and how many do you think would talk about Ewoks, Wookies, Ferengi, Vulcans, Romulans, and so on and so forth?

Did you just finish drinking an entire pot of coffee?

110 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:31:40pm

re: #102 Cannadian Club Akbar

My guess? You got money, I’ll kidnap you. Drug gangs don’t care where you are from.
PS. I wouldn’t actually kidnap you.

Thanks.
All I have are cats and pie to give as ransom.
Oh and an annoying teenager. He is hard worker though if you pay him in video games.

111 engineer cat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:31:50pm

plain old racism in an attractive package

naturally, american style racism comes with slick packaging, theme songs, TV commercials, sales drives, and memberships giving you half-off if you act now

112 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:32:14pm

re: #109 reine.de.tout

Did you just finish drinking an entire pot of coffee?

I think he got some really good Chronic.
///

113 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:32:35pm

re: #103 jamesfirecat

I was using “dude” like a surfer (its late at night)

Anyway I’m just arguing that what it says in the dictionary about a word for better or worse maters little compared to the public perception/common usage of that word.

And actually, yes, I agree with you and would add, that certain words, for better or worse, have negative connotations when the word itself has no actual negative meaning. Makes for difficult communication sometimes.

114 cliffster  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:33:02pm

re: #112 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think he got some really good Chronic.
///

bubonic chronic

115 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:33:10pm

re: #110 webevintage

Thanks.
All I have are cats and pie to give as ransom.
Oh and an annoying teenager. He is hard worker though if you pay him in video games.

All you pie is MINE!!
/And I will share it with FBV.:)

116 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:33:32pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

And they used a message that a corrupt and weak government was loyal to foreigners before Germany (sound familiar?),

that the real Germans couldn’t make it in Germany anymore because of those traitors within (sound familiar?),

that Communists secretly controlled the government and would take over and destroy all German liberties (sound familiar)

and pitched all manner of outrageous conspiracy theories (sound familiar) all designed to play upon the racial fears of Germans who felt they had no control over their lives (sound familiar)

It was backed by well funded industrialists who spread a disproportionate voice to the movement through the media. (Sound familiar?)

…andddd this is the post where you connect the dots and hit it out of the park, for me at least. Well done sir. I agreed with you before this post but this really sums it up nicely.

117 erraticsphinx  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:34:12pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

I will be the first to say that I don’t agree with everything Ludwig says, but he is spot on with this one.

118 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:34:41pm

Ohh and historical correction… The rally speech I quoted was from 1927, not 1929.

119 swamprat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:34:51pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

I do not live in a badly written novel.

I do not live in a badly written novel.

I do not live in a badly written novel.

(Opens eyes)

Is it working?

120 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:35:02pm

re: #110 webevintage

Thanks.
All I have are cats and pie to give as ransom.
Oh and an annoying teenager. He is hard worker though if you pay him in video games.

If you work it right, they’ll be paying you to take him back!

121 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:35:16pm

re: #116 McSpiff

…anddd this is the post where you connect the dots and hit it out of the park, for me at least. Well done sir. I agreed with you before this post but this really sums it up nicely.

re: #117 erraticsphinx

I will be the first to say that I don’t agree with everything Ludwig says, but he is spot on with this one.

If you had any idea how much I wished I was wrong.

122 reine.de.tout  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:35:59pm

re: #115 Cannadian Club Akbar

All you pie is MINE!!
/And I will share it with FBV.:)

And if you don’t, he’ll be kidnapping YOU!

123 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:36:17pm

re: #103 jamesfirecat

I was using “dude” like a surfer (its late at night)

Anyway I’m just arguing that what it says in the dictionary about a word for better or worse maters little compared to the public perception/common usage of that word.

If we asked a 100 people to describe an alien for us, how many do you think would talk about Mexican immigrants and how many do you think would talk about Ewoks, Wookies, Ferengi, Vulcans, Romulans, and so on and so forth?

ILLEGAL ALIEN

124 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:36:38pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

And they used a message that a corrupt and weak government was loyal to foreigners before Germany (sound familiar?),

that the real Germans couldn’t make it in Germany anymore because of those traitors within (sound familiar?),

that Communists secretly controlled the government and would take over and destroy all German liberties (sound familiar)

and pitched all manner of outrageous conspiracy theories (sound familiar) all designed to play upon the racial fears of Germans who felt they had no control over their lives (sound familiar)

It was backed by well funded industrialists who spread a disproportionate voice to the movement through the media. (Sound familiar?)

Again, I’m thankful we don’t have the explosive mix of defeat in war and economic disaster that Germany had. We’d be fucked if we did.

125 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:37:26pm

re: #65 Dark_Falcon

Just got finished watching the vid. I wonder if Dan Stein is in fact Jewish. If he is, then he is doubly foolish for hanging around with Nazis like that. Once they’ve ‘dealt with’ Hispanics, they’ll turn on any Jews around.

That is the lesson that Pam Geller et all should really get clear.

We have a whole holiday about that idea too. It is called Purim.

126 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:37:44pm

re: #123 WindUpBird

ILLEGAL ALIEN

That’s one Alien no one would oppose keeping out.

127 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:38:18pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

Again, I’m thankful we don’t have the explosive mix of defeat in war and economic disaster that Germany had. We’d be fucked if we did.

exactly. If the economy tanks, these loons take over.

The other part of course is the religious fervor and the image of a homeland that never was but will be “gloriously taken back” in a purge.

128 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:38:35pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

Again, I’m thankful we don’t have the explosive mix of defeat in war and economic disaster that Germany had. We’d be fucked if we did.

/Yeah it’s not like our economy was recently on the brink of disaster and there is no way the US might at the moment be feeling emasculated militarily because we can’t even manage to properly force too small countries in the middle of nowhere to fully submit to us!

129 erraticsphinx  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:38:39pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

I think our democracy is far, far, stronger than the hideous Weimar Republic.
If people like the Nazis ever actually get into real power here, American ain’t going down without a fight.

130 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:39:07pm

An interesting read, for those who would like some history on the immigration debate, is written by Victor Davis Hanson, a native Californian from the central valley, and a family of farmers. I really enjoyed the different perspectives in this book
Mexifornia: A State of Becoming, Encounter Books, 2003. ISBN 1-893554-73-2

amazon.com

131 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:39:07pm

re: #126 Dark_Falcon

That’s one Alien no one would oppose keeping out.

Unless you’re Weyland-Yutani, of course 8-)

132 Querent  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:39:14pm

re: #123 WindUpBird

ILLEGAL ALIEN

was it Phil Collins had a song that runs “it’s no fun - being an illegal alien…”

whoever it was, i’ve got the damned thing in my brain now from reading this thread…

133 Bagua  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:39:45pm

re: #69 erraticsphinx

News flash. The Nazis had to start somewhere, “Kill all the Jews!” wasn’t exactly their rallying cry to get to power. A far more insidious way of pandering to xenophobia, and lamenting about the heroic past of the Nordic race was their way to get into “normal” people’s heads.

I feel very comfortable calling these people Nazis, whatever prefix you want to put on it.

I see that. Others feel comfortable with terms like spelling-Nazi, and such. The word eventually loses its meaning. There are sites that tcan explain the true history of the actual Nazis better than I can or care to, and can explain why it is a mistake to use the term loosely.

134 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:40:05pm

re: #129 erraticsphinx

I think our democracy is far, far, stronger than the hideous Weimar Republic.
If people like the Nazis ever actually get into real power here, American ain’t going down without a fight.

Assuming people realize the fact in time.

“When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross”

135 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:40:08pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

My only point would be, what other factors that are unique to America do we need to take into account that might push groups over the edge? Having a leader viewed as an outsider did not occur in Germany (as far as I know) but that’s an issue facing America with the birthers.

I don’t believe Germany can be used as a map, but I do believe there are lessons to be learned. Every situation is ultimately unique however.

136 Varek Raith  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:41:26pm

re: #131 WindUpBird

Unless you’re Weyland-Yutani, of course 8-)

:)

137 erraticsphinx  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:41:35pm

re: #127 LudwigVanQuixote

It seems like very far right extremist movement on Earth has that ridiculous “We need to return to the days of *insert nostalgic days that never really existed* and we must stop the enroachment of *insert scapegoat here* !”.

They all have the same mixture of grievance, resentment and hate.

138 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:43:47pm

re: #135 McSpiff

My only point would be, what other factors that are unique to America do we need to take into account that might push groups over the edge? Having a leader viewed as an outsider did not occur in Germany (as far as I know) but that’s an issue facing America with the birthers.

I don’t believe Germany can be used as a map, but I do believe there are lessons to be learned. Every situation is ultimately unique however.

True. The key to keeping the crazies out of power is to de-legitimize them, and not let any leaders they put up attain great power. This latter may mean smearing said people and will certainly mean negative campaigning.

139 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:44:10pm

re: #137 erraticsphinx

It seems like very far right extremist movement on Earth has that ridiculous “We need to return to the days of *insert nostalgic days that never really existed* and we must stop the enroachment of *insert scapegoat here* !”.

They all have the same mixture of grievance, resentment and hate.

Quite Concur.

140 erraticsphinx  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:44:15pm

re: #133 Bagua

The word shouldn’t lose it’s meaning, of course. I don’t think it does in this instance, but you can disagree.

141 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:45:14pm

You know, politically we might be all over the map. But when the topic becomes attacks on democracy itself, everyone here closes ranks and really hashes out some great stuff. I’m seriously very impressed with what I’m reading, think we’re doing something very important here and quite frankly am proud of my own small contribution. Kudos to all.

142 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:45:56pm

re: #138 Dark_Falcon

True. The key to keeping the crazies out of power is to de-legitimize them, and not let any leaders they put up attain great power. This latter may mean smearing said people and will certainly mean negative campaigning.

It should also mean laughing at them to remind them how pathetic and untrue their beliefs are and how the “golden age” they long for never actually existed.

143 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:46:20pm

re: #141 McSpiff

Whoa!! You mean we use logic?
/

144 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:47:34pm

re: #143 Cannadian Club Akbar

For good, not evil!

145 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:48:17pm

re: #135 McSpiff

My only point would be, what other factors that are unique to America do we need to take into account that might push groups over the edge? Having a leader viewed as an outsider did not occur in Germany (as far as I know) but that’s an issue facing America with the birthers.

I don’t believe Germany can be used as a map, but I do believe there are lessons to be learned. Every situation is ultimately unique however.

Yes there are second order differences, but this is the central evil message in history, it goes back to the Ancient world.

You are the (master race, workers, Roman Centurions, immortal warriors, true Christian knights, true Samurai, proud sons of France, Patriots…) But look at you. We should be taking our rightful place at the head of the world but we have been betrayed from within and without by ( communists, fascists, blacks, Jews, Europeans, Muslims, Christians) who weaken what it means to be (German, Italian, Japanese, American, Russian). They sap our strength with there perversions of all that is good and holy. It is not your fault that times are hard. It is their fault and their wealthy enablers who live off the sweat of your brow. But we will purge them and create a (1000 year Reich, Fatherland, Motherland, Workers Paradise, Empire) and take back what is rightfully ours. We will return to our core values and shine through and then (God, the Force of history, racial destiny) will shine upon us. It will be grim work but some times the tree of liberty must be fed with the blood of patriots

You get the idea?

It is a very old message.

146 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:48:42pm

Holy crap! The stuff you don’t know.

Western icon Ty Hardin played John F. Kennedy’s executive officer, Leonard J. Thom, in the 1963 movie

PT-109

. It is a fine film and has held up better than many war movies of that period.

I saw PT-109 earlier today on TCM and, curious to know what had become of Hardin, googled him up.

I found this:

In the 1980s, Ty Hardin organized a militia group known as the Arizona Patriots. The group, headquartered in Prescott, Arizona, was anti-Semitic and fashioned after the Posse Comitatus. He formed the Common Law Institute which taught that the sovereignty of the people was supreme and sovereign citizens were not bound by any rules or regulations of the government.[citation needed] He published a monthly tabloid called the Arizona Patriot which printed anti-United States government articles. The Federal Reserve System and the Internal Revenue Service were among targets the group felt should be abolished.[citation needed] As the group advocated stockpiling weapons and ammunition to protect the people from government, an FBI investigation was triggered which lasted for two years. As a result, federal agents raided a Patriot camp confiscating a cache of weapons and several members of the group were arrested for conspiracy against the U.S. government. Hardin left Arizona soon after and the group ceased to function. Hardin fled to Costa Rica, a country with no active extradition treaties and reportedly had become involved with the local ecology and rain forest movements.[citation needed] He has since returned to the United States.

Hardin, now 79, still espouses basically the same views in this very recent “special message.”

You’re entitled to believe what you like, but Men of God seeking religious freedom established this nation and we own them our allegiance even if we don’t believe in their God of Creation. Our currency carries their trade mark “In God we Trust” Live with it and respect it, for if we don’t, we will reap a whirl wind of disaster like has never been witnessed before in our History. You may not agree with our founding fathers but the sub-humans that now control our monetary system are destroying our nation’s freedoms with financial bondage and their no-win wars. …..
Put a stash away of food and ammo. We will be called on to retake our land for God. I’m referring to the Bible’s prediction of the last days. What if God is right? Call me an alarmists or a bible thumper, but I am preparing for the worst and praying for a revival. This present collapse of our economy is just a clear picture of the events to come. Having a black president may be a giant step in your eyes for equal opportunity but it was not as it does make a gigantic statement? When the economy hits a brick wall, the frustrations of despair and hunger goes too the streets, the armed masses will be the most lethal mass of humanity in the entire world. What do you think their Homeland security is all about? They can’t augment their One World Order without disarming or killing Patriots and they well know it. Folks, freedom is walking on thin ice looking for a miracle. What if our Black President cannot unite our nation, restore the Constitution. All Hell Will Break Loose.
147 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:48:48pm

re: #142 jamesfirecat

It should also mean laughing at them to remind them how pathetic and untrue their beliefs are and how the “golden age” they long for never actually existed.

Also Concur.

148 engineer cat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:48:48pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

And they used a message that a corrupt and weak government was loyal to foreigners before Germany (sound familiar?),

that the real Germans couldn’t make it in Germany anymore because of those traitors within (sound familiar?),

that Communists secretly controlled the government and would take over and destroy all German liberties (sound familiar)

and pitched all manner of outrageous conspiracy theories (sound familiar) all designed to play upon the racial fears of Germans who felt they had no control over their lives (sound familiar)

It was backed by well funded industrialists who spread a disproportionate voice to the movement through the media. (Sound familiar?)

this post should be printed up and posted in a public place

149 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:48:48pm

re: #137 erraticsphinx

It seems like very far right extremist movement on Earth has that ridiculous “We need to return to the days of *insert nostalgic days that never really existed* and we must stop the enroachment of *insert scapegoat here* !”.

They all have the same mixture of grievance, resentment and hate.

The far far left does too. In that way at least, in terms of the memes used, they are the same.

150 swamprat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:48:51pm

re: #103 jamesfirecat


re: #123 WindUpBird

…And that guy hanging from the bar, he is just working out. And he’s not “snarling”, he’s just got a cold. And the reason I shot the little girl is she is WAY too young to be readin’ those books she’s carrying, and I’d appreciate it if you would stop hassling’ me about it.

Results of an “immigration test”
Subject passed.
MEN IN BLACK

151 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:49:06pm

re: #144 McSpiff

For good, not evil!

I introduced the owner of where I work to this place a few weeks ago. Tonight I saw him lurking. Heh.

152 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:50:55pm

re: #146 shiplord kirel

Sheesh! It’s getting late:
Ty Hardin at wikipedia (first quote)

153 SpaceJesus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:51:50pm

halts maul alle, der fuhrer ist am fernseher!

154 swamprat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:52:06pm

re: #150 swamprat

155 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:52:25pm

re: #153 SpaceJesus

Jawhol, spacejesus.

(What’d he say?)

156 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:53:06pm

re: #151 Cannadian Club Akbar

I introduced the owner of where I work to this place a few weeks ago. Tonight I saw him lurking. Heh.

You better hope he doesn’t know your nic! Or, you’re t-o-a-s-t!

157 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:53:11pm

re: #153 SpaceJesus

halts maul alle, der fuhrer ist am fernseher!

No entiendo este. Hablamos solamente Ingles aqui.

158 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:53:31pm

re: #146 shiplord kirel

Holy crap! The stuff you don’t know.

Western icon Ty Hardin played John F. Kennedy’s executive officer, Leonard J. Thom, in the 1963 movie

The man is now a survivalist theocrat. I’m glad all he did was play JFK’s XO, because Hardin today would not be worthy to lace JFK’s shoe. He’s a piece of crap advancing racism and war.

159 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:53:35pm

re: #155 Floral Giraffe

Jawhol, spacejesus.

(What’d he say?)

He said:
Dog mauls deer, and an air freshener.
/

160 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:53:41pm

re: #157 shiplord kirel

Bueno, mi amigo!

161 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:54:01pm

re: #145 LudwigVanQuixote

Agreed 100%, and again your post drives home my point. America will have its own unique groups and causes, but you’re right. Ultimately it will be the same old song. Defiantly something we can detect, track and defeat.

Totally OT but you just reminded me.

For the military geeks, specifically those interested in counter insurgency operations, here’s a nice gem. It says the price is $36.00 but if you read close, that’s just the printed volume. There’s a link right on that page for the free pdf:

How Insurgencies End
Cover: How Insurgencies End

By: Ben Connable, Martin C. Libicki

This study tested conventional wisdom about how insurgencies end against the evidence from 89 insurgencies. It compares a quantitative and qualitative analysis of 89 insurgency case studies with lessons from insurgency and counterinsurgency (COIN) literature. While no two insurgencies are the same, the authors find that modern insurgencies last about ten years and that a government’s chances of winning may increase slightly over time.

SNIP

162 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:54:09pm

re: #156 Floral Giraffe

You better hope he doesn’t know your nic! Or, you’re t-o-a-s-t!

He knows it!!

163 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:54:10pm

re: #153 SpaceJesus

With all my heart, the fuhrer is a hamster?

Stop my beating heart, the fuhrer is a pickle?

I knew I should have taken German in there somewhere.

164 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:54:52pm

re: #162 Cannadian Club Akbar

He knows it!!

Ruh roh!

165 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:55:04pm

re: #148 engineer dog

this post should be printed up and posted in a public place

Thank you.

166 SpaceJesus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:55:04pm

re: #157 shiplord kirel

No entiendo este. Hablamos solamente Ingles aqui.

papiere bitte

167 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:55:37pm

re: #163 EmmmieG

EmmieG bakes a mean cookie!
;)

168 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:55:52pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

papiere bitte

You should have thought of that before you went in there. I think we’re out.

169 SpaceJesus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:55:56pm

re: #163 EmmmieG

With all my heart, the fuhrer is a hamster?

Stop my beating heart, the fuhrer is a pickle?

I knew I should have taken German in there somewhere.

“shut up everyone, the leader is on tv”

170 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:55:56pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

Bite paper?

171 shiplord kirel  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:56:04pm

re: #166 SpaceJesus

papiere bitte

ROFLMAO!

172 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:56:30pm

re: #169 SpaceJesus

“shut up everyone, the leader is on tv”

Quick! Hit the mute button!

173 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:56:57pm

re: #167 Floral Giraffe

EmmieG bakes a mean cookie!
;)

New thing, (unfortunately): Bake your chocolate chip cookies in a mini-muffin tin. Mmmm…

174 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:57:17pm

re: #170 Floral Giraffe

Bite paper?

“Papers, please.”

175 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:58:07pm

I would like to say clearly to any of my fellow Jews who think that hanging out with Nazi scum, like the ones who penned this bill, or the ones who call for the murder of all Muslims, or the ones who are simply fascists, who are currently pointed at others is a grievous sin. If you recall the point of Purim, G-d already told you that they will come for you no matter how much you try to blend in.

176 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:58:16pm

re: #173 EmmmieG

New thing, (unfortunately): Bake your chocolate chip cookies in a mini-muffin tin. Mmmm…

My mom bought those tins at the Dollar Store. They are the best.

177 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 9:59:46pm

re: #30 McSpiff

For the record, I’m not saying nothing should be done. I’d just rather see people who aren’t evil fucks writing the legislation. Give me honest legislation, that attempts to deal with the real issues involved and isn’t simply “Durr Hurr Brown people commit crimes” and we’ll talk. This legislation ain’t it.

That’s the problem. This is indefensible on several levels, but the last stand of excuse for it always turns out to be “but something MUST be done! Do you want to do nothing?”

That has never been a good reason for doing something stupid.

178 windsagio  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:00:51pm

re: #79 reloadingisnotahobby

-1 for effing insane paranoia.

“OMG Don’t you dare walk around Vegas with a *gasp* NICE WATCH! There are gangs of rapists and muggers at every corner, and you PROBABLY WON’T MAKE IT OUT!”

179 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:02:00pm

re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote

A tad over the top, maybe?
I don’t disagree with the sentiments, but, really, you are yelling at the very people who are on your side.

180 windsagio  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:02:19pm

re: #178 windsagio

whew, just inside 100 posts >

181 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:02:21pm

re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote

I would like to say clearly to any of my fellow Jews who think that hanging out with Nazi scum, like the ones who penned this bill, or the ones who call for the murder of all Muslims, or the ones who are simply fascists, who are currently pointed at others is a grievous sin. If you recall the point of Purim, G-d already told you that they will come for you no matter how much you try to blend in.

Quite Concur. Sadly, Jews will always be regarded as “the other’ by racists and those looking to divide and conquer. That makes them tempting targets. Best way to avoid being so targeted is to make sure power stays in the hands of people who do not need to target.

182 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:03:00pm

re: #179 Floral Giraffe

A tad over the top, maybe?
I don’t disagree with the sentiments, but, really, you are yelling at the very people who are on your side.

No I am not. I was thinking of people like Pam Geller.

183 erraticsphinx  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:03:25pm

re: #175 LudwigVanQuixote

Somewhere, a shrieking harpy is typing indiscriminate scribble to respond to that.

184 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:03:36pm

Out for the nighty. I wish you all a happy morn.:)

185 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:03:40pm

re: #47 swamprat

”Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose”.

I full well expect some moron to defend FAIR.

Fjordman(s), of the world, we are waiting.
Please tell us how we have to accept this vile garbage in order to save…our race, or America, or the so-called white culture (tuna salad sandwiches on mushy cotton?) Or whatever half-assed justification you think is acceptable for America to give up everthing she stands for, so that you can assage your lack of self worth by telling yourself that your racial background makes you better than other people rather than actually demonstrating it by doing something worthwhile.

And no, I did not watch the video. I have heard this song before, and it is disgusting.

I got seven minutes in, and this guy has nothing to say. If I heard someone say something like that about an org I worked with, and it wasn’t true, you had fucking better believe I’d have a better comeback than ‘this is out of context, and SPLC is lame’.

186 erraticsphinx  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:03:41pm

re: #182 LudwigVanQuixote

!

187 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:04:03pm

re: #182 LudwigVanQuixote

LOL! You think the shreiking harpy reads here, or cares?
Well, OK, maybe she does. I don’t know.

188 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:04:14pm

re: #182 LudwigVanQuixote

No I am not. I was thinking of people like Pam Geller.

re: #183 erraticsphinx

Somewhere, a shrieking harpy is typing indiscriminate scribble to respond to that.

Heh.

189 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:04:16pm

re: #48 WindUpBird

I thought violent crime in AZ has been going down?

It’s lower than a number of non-border states, certainly.

190 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:04:44pm

re: #188 Cannadian Club Akbar

Jenius, even!

191 swamprat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:05:00pm

re: #178 windsagio

Gambler gangs.

Never a threat if know their weakness.

“I’ll bet, if you close your eyes for one minute, I can make a white pigeon appear and fly in three circles around you.”

192 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:05:03pm

I see the stalkers are at it again; Flinging insults at Ludwig while not even attempting to counter the points he makes.

193 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:05:04pm

re: #183 erraticsphinx

Somewhere, a shrieking harpy is typing indiscriminate scribble to respond to that.

Indeed… Besides I am the top topic of conversation amongst certain people who think they know what being a Jew means but none the less think that being buddies with scum like this is OK. If they are going to talk about this then I wish to give them something for their very damaged neshama.

194 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:05:24pm

re: #189 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s lower than a number of non-border states, certainly.

Only because they do half of their damage over the border.
//sorta

195 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:06:10pm

re: #187 Floral Giraffe

LOL! You think the shreiking harpy reads here, or cares?
Well, OK, maybe she does. I don’t know.

No but many of her followers do, and many of them claim to be Jews. We Jews have a duty to one another when one of us is going down a fools path to destruction.

196 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:06:49pm

re: #192 Dark_Falcon

You give them credibility by looking at them.
They are stupid & suck.
And I look occasionally, but truly, I am embarased when I look there.

197 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:07:07pm

re: #193 LudwigVanQuixote

Indeed… Besides I am the top topic of conversation amongst certain people who think they know what being a Jew means but none the less think that being buddies with scum like this is OK. If they are going to talk about this then I wish to give them something for their very damaged neshama.

Translation?

198 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:07:22pm

re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist

I got seven minutes in, and this guy has nothing to say. If I heard someone say something like that about an org I worked with, and it wasn’t true, you had fucking better believe I’d have a better comeback than ‘this is out of context, and SPLC is lame’.

Of course its true. These people do not go to particular lengths to hide their hobbies.

199 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:07:35pm

re: #197 Dark_Falcon

Translation?

soul.

200 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:07:49pm

re: #195 LudwigVanQuixote

No but many of her followers do, and many of them claim to be Jews. We Jews have a duty to one another when one of us is going down a fools path to destruction.

Ok. Happy to see you proud of doing your duty.

201 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:08:02pm

G’nite.

202 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:09:01pm

re: #196 Floral Giraffe

You give them credibility by looking at them.
They are stupid & suck.
And I look occasionally, but truly, I am embarased when I look there.

I’ve cut back on it, but when they start in with the Ludwig-hate I feel compelled to speak up. Its the same thing as iceweasel; Just mindless attacks wherein the sole objective is to run the targeted person down. No addressing the issue, just name-calling.

203 Walking Spanish Down the Hall  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:09:04pm

This is a very disturbing thread following a very disturbing trend in the US.

I see it reflected in western Canada.

I’m not taking enough Effexor.

204 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:09:05pm

re: #201 EmmmieG

Sleep tight!

205 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:09:36pm

re: #173 EmmmieG

New thing, (unfortunately): Bake your chocolate chip cookies in a mini-muffin tin. Mmmm…

Making individual cookies annoys me so I always makere: #185 SanFranciscoZionist

I got seven minutes in, and this guy has nothing to say. If I heard someone say something like that about an org I worked with, and it wasn’t true, you had fucking better believe I’d have a better comeback than ‘this is out of context, and SPLC is lame’.

Tomorrow Rachael will be back and will have fact checked everything he said tonight.

206 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:09:58pm

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

I’ve cut back on it, but when they start in with the Ludwig-hate I feel compelled to speak up. Its the same thing as iceweasel; Just mindless attacks wherein the sole objective is to run the targeted person down. No addressing the issue, just name-calling.

Meh, they are as meaningful as the wind. Wind from your nether parts, that is!

207 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:10:01pm

re: #202 Dark_Falcon

I’ve cut back on it, but when they start in with the Ludwig-hate I feel compelled to speak up. Its the same thing as iceweasel; Just mindless attacks wherein the sole objective is to run the targeted person down. No addressing the issue, just name-calling.

If you can’t control us here, I doubt you’ll have any luck with them there….

And with that particular insight out of the way I’m for bed….

208 erraticsphinx  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:10:11pm

re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist

Though I wasn’t registered here yet during the great post-Eurofascism revelations bannings of 2007-2008, that was a very common excuse judging by the threads I read on the Vlaams-Belang, Sweden Democrats, BNP etc.

“But but but SOMETHING must be done….*insert ridiculously racist and violent thing that supposedly should be done here * ”

*take out popcorn*

209 webevintage  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:10:45pm

Oh sorry about the messed up post, obviously it is past my bedtime.
Night y’all.

210 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:11:00pm

re: #107 LudwigVanQuixote

Started a reply. Ended up stopping half way through writing what was turning into an essay.

So I’ll go with the synopsis:

Yes, when you start putting it together and look at the ‘whole’ it sounds very familiar. It’s the underlying pattern that’s familiar.

211 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:11:13pm

re: #199 LudwigVanQuixote

soul.

Thank you. Sorry I have to keep asking, but you are far too well spoken for me not to know what you are saying.

212 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:12:01pm

re: #211 Dark_Falcon

Thank you. Sorry I have to keep asking, but you are far too well spoken for me not to know what you are saying.

Really.. that’s kind, but when I get drowsy, I type like a palsied chimp.

213 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:12:06pm

re: #207 jamesfirecat

If you can’t control us here, I doubt you’ll have any luck with them there…

And with that particular insight out of the way I’m for bed…

The point is to call those folks out for their actions.

214 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:12:07pm

re: #63 webevintage

How much of what the the majority of the citizens of Arizona think they know is actually true.

Are illegals committing more violent crimes the American citizens?
What are the crime rates in Arizona compared to other parts of the country.

For that matter are illegals more violent then American citizens?

(and of course when someone is found out to be an illegal alien the laws already on the books should be followed.)

A reprint, from me:

Before we get too carried away with the Wild Wild West thing here, some notes from the 2007 census numbers:

Arizona has a lower murder rate than seven other states, including such places as South Carolina and Maryland. They run even with Georgia, Mississippi and Nevada.

Thirteen states are ahead of them for robbery, including Ohio.

Eighteen states beat them out for aggravated assault.

Before anyone starts keening this is not advocacy for an open border—just a reminder that this image of a helpless war-torn state overrun by the narcotrafficantes may be slightly premature.

BTW, Alaska leads the nation in forcible rape, by such a far margin that it ain’t even funny.

215 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:12:15pm

re: #210 Jadespring

Started a reply. Ended up stopping half way through writing what was turning into an essay.

So I’ll go with the synopsis:

Yes, when you start putting it together and look at the ‘whole’ it sounds very familiar. It’s the underlying pattern that’s familiar.

Then you get my point entirely.

216 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:13:09pm

re: #213 Dark_Falcon

The point is to call those folks out for their actions.

My point is that if they are screaming at the tops of their lungs then I know for a fact that I am saying something that is correct and true.

217 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:13:18pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

Mexican Cartels Make Phoenix U.S. Kidnap Capital

From Cannadian Club Akbar, upthread a bit.

Palomino posted some other material that indicated that the immigrant population might in fact be bringing crime rates down in AZ.

218 McSpiff  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:14:20pm

Night all.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:15:55pm

re: #77 Gus 802

Arizona homicides per capita: # 22 Arizona: 0.168 per 1 million people

[Link: www.statemaster.com…]

2001 stats.

That’s state prisons, no? They don’t seem to break down homicides per capita on that site.

220 palomino  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:18:11pm

One of the effects of all this is the reawakening of a sleeping giant. More people marched—nationwide—on a single day in April 2006 in pro-immigrant rallies than on any day in the last year of highly publicized tea parties. Protests of April 2006

This is likely to get much more intense, and ugly, before anything gets solved. But the far right is living a fantasy if they think there won’t be massive pushback from immigration supporters. There were protests in over 100 cities on April 10, 2006. And that was with little time to get coordinated and mobilized. This time immigration supporters will really have their act together, so the numbers will be astronomical.

221 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:18:39pm

re: #212 LudwigVanQuixote

BS.

222 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:19:59pm

re: #214 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s all those hot wimmin that look like scary spice, AKA Sarah!
/// sorta.
I think it’s really more about the isolation.

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:21:14pm

re: #194 Floral Giraffe

Only because they do half of their damage over the border.
//sorta

Yeah, well, not so much we can do about that.

224 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:21:48pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

That’s state prisons, no? They don’t seem to break down homicides per capita on that site.

You can look through here:

fbi.gov

225 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:22:29pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah, well, not so much we can do about that.

Well, we COULD secure the border. But, we don’t seem to have the will to do that.

226 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:23:21pm

re: #222 Floral Giraffe

It’s all those hot wimmin that look like scary spice, AKA Sarah!
/// sorta.
I think it’s really more about the isolation.

And the gender imbalance, I’d imagine.

It’s freaking scary, though, it’s like four times the rest of the country.

227 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:24:12pm

re: #224 Gus 802

You can look through here:

[Link: www.fbi.gov…]

Here’s another on by region.

fbi.gov

Show Arizona at -7.4 percent in 2008 for violent crime.

228 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:27:57pm

re: #225 Floral Giraffe

Well, we COULD secure the border. But, we don’t seem to have the will to do that.

Wouldn’t do anything about what’s done on the other side. Did I miss a turn in your point?

229 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:28:21pm

re: #220 palomino

Ugly, yes, we are there already. And there isn’t even any legislation yet!
Put your helmets on & prepare for incoming!

230 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:29:14pm

re: #228 SanFranciscoZionist

Stop it crossing incoming or outgoing.
It couldn’t hurt to try.

231 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:30:48pm

Man, I left for a while and missed all the fun!

232 Jadespring  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:32:01pm

Well, I guess it’s that time.

Night all.

233 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:32:17pm

And a big shout out to my “updingers”.
Thank you for hitting me up to 10,000.
I appreciate your dings.
Now, off to shop at the “ding store”. Gee, a toaster, or a blender?
Maybe Killgore would cook for me for a weekend?
Scratch that, I’d get fed slugs fresh from the garden!
OK. Silliness off, now.
Returning to your regular programming!

234 yenta-fada  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:37:09pm

The use of the words “holocaust” and “Nazi” are used much too freely. Whether it is Seinfeld talking about the ‘soup Nazi’ or one of the Jewish financial bloggers referring to derivatives as a “holocaust” financially, I don’t like to see the trend develop. It will be used in the wrong places for the wrong reasons. Words have power and meaning. Even Neo-Nazi is off. Maybe ‘Hitler revivalists/supporters” or something, but not Nazis. These words are co-opted by Palestinian terror groups and their ilk.

235 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:38:12pm

OK, and I just bitched out an attorney.
Haven’t heard “boo” from him since 12/28.
YO! It’s the end of April!
What’s up?

236 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:41:13pm

Remember, they don’t hate, they just want to be “separate”.
They aren’t racists, they are racialists…
////

237 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:41:31pm

re: #216 LudwigVanQuixote

My point is that if they are screaming at the tops of their lungs then I know for a fact that I am saying something that is correct and true.

And on that note, goodnight. Sleep well, all.

238 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:44:55pm

re: #227 Gus 802

Here’s another on by region.

[Link: www.fbi.gov…]

Show Arizona at -7.4 percent in 2008 for violent crime.

Using the FBI’s tables for 2008, Arizona seems to come in 21st for overall violent crime per capita, behind all the other border states, closest to Massachusetts and Alabama in its overall numbers.

Basically, whatever problems they may be having, I’m calling bogus on the idea of an out-of-control level of violence. They’re in the middle of the pack as far as the US is concerned.

239 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:45:48pm

re: #230 Floral Giraffe

Stop it crossing incoming or outgoing.
It couldn’t hurt to try.

We do try. That’s the thing. Everyone’s talking like the Feds sit around doing their nails all day. The border can’t be sealed, but are we doing that lousy a job of it, in terms of what realistically can be done?

240 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:46:34pm

re: #238 SanFranciscoZionist

Using the FBI’s tables for 2008, Arizona seems to come in 21st for overall violent crime per capita, behind all the other border states, closest to Massachusetts and Alabama in its overall numbers.

Basically, whatever problems they may be having, I’m calling bogus on the idea of an out-of-control level of violence. They’re in the middle of the pack as far as the US is concerned.

Yep. Seems safer than Colorado. My initial link to the Statemaster homicide numbers had Arizona at #22.

241 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:50:14pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Yep. Seems safer than Colorado. My initial link to the Statemaster homicide numbers had Arizona at #22.

Safer than Tennesee or South Carolina by a long shot.

Hell, my aunt always used to talk about moving her family to Arizona because it was supposed to be so safe compared to SoCal. And that was before their drop in violent crime.

242 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:54:22pm

re: #239 SanFranciscoZionist

We do try. That’s the thing. Everyone’s talking like the Feds sit around doing their nails all day. The border can’t be sealed, but are we doing that lousy a job of it, in terms of what realistically can be done?

Yes, we are. There are far too many ‘coyotes’ leading people across the border. For many reasons. It’s far too porous. We can do better than we are currently doing.

243 Gus  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:55:10pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

Safer than Tennesee or South Carolina by a long shot.

Hell, my aunt always used to talk about moving her family to Arizona because it was supposed to be so safe compared to SoCal. And that was before their drop in violent crime.

Violent crime is still trending downwards all across the country. My guess would have been that Arizona is safer than SoCal. Of course that’s still dependent on particular counties or cities. Arizona of course was the state that many southern Californians “escaped” to during the 90s. That and Oregon and Washington state.

I don’t know. On a more normal aspect it’s too darned hot down there and not enough trees. You have to be a real desert person to like living in Arizona.

244 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 10:57:43pm

I used to hate Rachel, but tonight she rocked.

245 tnguitarist  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 11:01:11pm

re: #241 SanFranciscoZionist

Safer than Tennesee or South Carolina by a long shot.


I’ll get right on that.

246 solomonpanting  Thu, Apr 29, 2010 11:27:10pm

re: #234 yenta-fada

The use of the words “holocaust” and “Nazi” are used much too freely. Whether it is Seinfeld talking about the ‘soup Nazi’ or one of the Jewish financial bloggers referring to derivatives as a “holocaust” financially, I don’t like to see the trend develop. It will be used in the wrong places for the wrong reasons. Words have power and meaning. Even Neo-Nazi is off. Maybe ‘Hitler revivalists/supporters” or something, but not Nazis. These words are co-opted by Palestinian terror groups and their ilk.

Andy Warhol was onto something:


“In the future, everyone will be world-famous for 15 minutes a Nazi.”

247 Tigger2005  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 1:16:58am

I’ve had it with those damn extraterrestrials too. Always scooping me up and probing me.

re: #67 reine.de.tout

al·ien
   /ˈeɪlyən, ˈeɪliən/ Show Spelled[eyl-yuhn, ey-lee-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a resident born in or belonging to another country who has not acquired citizenship by naturalization (distinguished from citizen).

2.
a foreigner.
3.
a person who has been estranged or excluded.
4.
a creature from outer space; extraterrestrial.

248 [deleted]  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 1:58:09am
249 windsagio  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 1:59:06am

re: #234 yenta-fada

you’re thinking too hard, or perhaps over-romanticizing (for lack of a better term, don’t hurt me) the labels.

Especially holocaust, it has plenty of ‘lowercase’ meanings >>

250 PAUL_MACDONALD  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 4:50:26am

re: #7 reloadingisnotahobby

Well, we have a couple of Native American gangs here called “The Indian Posse” and their rivals “The Indian Posse Killers” (as well as splinter groups from both). They control prostitution and drugs for a couple of western Canadian cities.

Then, there are some east Indian gangs in Vancouver.

I don’t know if the various white gangs have been covered. I just saw the post and was compelled to respond.

251 yoshicastmaster  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 6:44:26am

“at a library.”

LOL- I cracked up when she said that.

Basically, Maddow is still my hero.

This guy avoids discussing content by impugning Maddow’s motives. Of course, Maddow is remains on target and he looks ridiculous.

Maddow you ROCK. ps… can you please come speak at my graduation next year????

252 cenotaphium  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 6:59:39am

Comment deleted? Really?

253 celticdragon  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 7:09:43am

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

Ouch.

I have noted that particular parallel as well.

Economic hardship, bad foreign policy decisions and stewing ethnic tensions can lead to very, very bad outcomes.

I really do have to agree with ludwig in his assessment. I have read Mein Kampf and the bullshit coming from supporters of the Arizona law sounds real familiar.

254 celticdragon  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 7:10:54am

re: #247 Tigger2005

I’ve had it with those damn extraterrestrials too. Always scooping me up and probing me.

They like you because you are so pouncy bouncy flouncy.

255 jamesfirecat  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 8:26:06am

re: #254 celticdragon

They like you because you are so pouncy bouncy flouncy.

Not to mention the only one of their kind.

256 garhighway  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 9:13:14am

re: #79 reloadingisnotahobby

Did they walk across our border by the thousand per month??
Take your nitwit and shove it!
The gangs you mention are not at issue!
Take a walk in east L.A. ,Fresno,Bakersfield,Yuma, Las Vegas..etc with a
Rolex in your 2010 BMW!
I’ll take odds you lose both if not your life!
Been there done that!
…I drove repo for 4 years in So.Cal in the 80’s…Still carry a little lead
and plenty of scars!

It would have to be a pretty big BMW if you can take a walk in it.

257 andres  Fri, Apr 30, 2010 10:10:32am

This is an interesting take on the Arizona Anti-Immigration Law:

businesspundit.com


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