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1 prairiefire  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:29:20pm

The Romneys can't have it both ways. Either Ann is his political surrogate with all American ladies, or she's not.

2 EdDantes  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:32:46pm

The Romney's were fortunate that Ann could stay home with the children. But Mitt was right that it takes two working parents to make ends meet.

3 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:42:27pm

I'd love to be able to be a stay-at-home dad. Maybe eventually, when my wife has a faculty position.

4 labman57  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:44:05pm

There is certainly nothing wrong with being a "stay at home" mom. And it definitely can be a full-time job raising kids.
But it is disingenuous to suggest that the viewpoints of an extremely wealthy homemaker represent the needs and concerns of women -- whether married or single, with or without children -- who need to earn a living in the workplace to make ends meet.

Romney to female voters: "The GOP has your back." Alas, Mitt's campaign is based on unabashed lies, frequent flip-flops, and blatant pandering that he believes will help him to get nominated … strategically planning to hit his reset button during the general election.

However, Romney's team appears to unaware of YouTube --the online repository of instantly accessible video clips, providing evidence of the previous policy positions of Mitt v.1, Mitt v.2, Mitt v.3, etc.

Meanwhile, the governor of Wisconsin repeals "equal pay for women" legislation, conservative pundits and politicians claim that men deserve higher pay for equal work because "men need the added income more than do women" or because "men know more stuff than do women", Congressional and state Republican legislators strive to make affordable access to contraception and breast cancer screenings more difficult with their assault on PP and health insurance coverage, and GOP-controlled state legislatures mandate that women seeking an abortion provide social conservative politicians with "a womb with a view". So much for the tea party/conservative movement's mantra: "small, non-intrusive government".

The 2012 GOP campaign slogan: A chicken in every pot and a spy-cam in every uterus.

American women to Republican Party: "WE will decide whether or not our rights are being assaulted by conservative policies, thank you very much."

5 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:48:33pm

Looks like the company he helped found is still going strong today. It's gone international and is helping working families care for their children.
[Link: www.brighthorizons.com...]

Our commitment to providing innovative programs that help children, families, and employers work together to be their very best has received prestigious recognition. Bright Horizons has consistently been the only child care organization named to the "100 Best Companies to Work for in America" list by FORTUNE magazine. In addition, more than half of the organizations on Working Mother magazine’s "100 Best Companies" list are Bright Horizons clients.

I blame Mitt!

6 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:49:53pm

It's really been funny watching the GOP scream about how being a mom is real work like a bunch of first-wave feminists. I wonder if they'd be cool with the government giving an actual living wage to single moms, since it's so important and all.

7 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:50:44pm

I thought Mitt and wife were too rich and privileged to understand working families.
/

8 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:51:40pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

What do you mean by him helping to found it?

9 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:53:15pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

I thought Mitt and wife were too rich and privileged to understand working families.
/

Yeah, once upon a time Mitt also pretended to understand the importance of reproductive freedom (among other things). What one wouldn't do to become a governor of a liberal state!

10 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:54:09pm

Mitt understands everything the focus groups tell him about families.

11 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:56:43pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Looks like the company he helped found is still going strong today. It's gone international and is helping working families care for their children.
[Link: www.brighthorizons.com...]

I blame Mitt!

Bright Horizons was founded in 1986 and bought by Bain Capital in 2008. Mitt Romney left Bain in 1999.

∴ Mitt Romney had nothing to do with either the founding or acquisition of Bright Horizons.

12 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:56:58pm

re: #8 Obdicut

What do you mean by him helping to found it?

he capitalized Bright horizons during his time at Bain Capitol.

13 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:58:25pm

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

No, it appears that original Bright Horizons that then merged with the other company was funded in part by Bain, and one guy wrote a letter saying that Romney recruited the team and set the early strategy. I guess that counts as 'helped to found'.

Anyway, would be cool if Romney lived up to the values displayed by that company.

But he doesn't.

14 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:58:33pm

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

Bright Horizons was founded in 1986 and bought by Bain Capital in 2008. Mitt Romney left Bain in 1999.

∴ Mitt Romney had nothing to do with either the founding or acquisition of Bright Horizons.

Well, he could have off-shored it. Pack the little guttersnipes off to Guangzhou.

15 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:58:43pm

By the time you're ready for your rebuttal against Mitt he's already changed his position. He's a severe conservative flip-flopper.

16 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 6:59:16pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

Looks like the company he helped found is still going strong today. It's gone international an[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] is helping working families care for their children.
[Link: www.brighthorizons.com...]

I blame Mitt!

Bright Horizons Family Solutions is a United States-based child-care provider and is the largest provider of employer-sponsored child care.[1] It is headquartered in Watertown, Massachusetts.

Childcare services funded by and routed through employers?

Being an investor/founder of a FOR-PROFIT childcare company is your clever riposte?

17 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:00:30pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

he capitalized Bright horizons during his time at Bain Capitol.

Yep, found that. It's funny-- the corporate governance of Bright Horizons-- like most successful companies, is pro-gay, tolerant and inclusive. It's funny to see it used as a club by paleocons against Romney.

[Link: www.amycontrada.com...]

I tend to give credit to the actual workers in a company rather than the capital behind it, though.

18 Decatur Deb  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:00:56pm

re: #16 The Ghost of a Flea

Childcare services funded by and routed through employers?

Being an investor/founder of a FOR-PROFIT childcare company is your clever riposte?

Think of it as a pre-school internship.

19 jaunte  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:01:00pm

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

Right wingers are attacking Romney for supporting non-discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, using Bright Horizons as an example:

Mitt Romney's job creation record: supporting companies with radical social policies
...As Governor of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney exposed his big government, social liberal approach when he created a new preschool education department, paving the way for taxpayer funding and government control of day care. For the new department's advisory board, Romney chose a corporate leader who embraced enhanced pro-homosexual, pro-transgender policies in her child care corporation, Bright Horizons Family Solutions. Romney's firm Bain Capital had funded that company as a start-up, later buying it for $1.3 billion.

Romney has always supported non-discrimination policies on the basis of "sexual orientation" in employment and public accommodations, and in the corporations he and/or Bain had a stake in. Romney's adherence to sexual-radical policies effectively undermines the traditional family values he claims to stand for.

20 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:01:10pm

re: #12 Killgore Trout

he capitalized Bright horizons during his time at Bain Capitol.

That's nice. Boeing took over McDonnell Douglas but they still weren't the founders of McDonnell Douglas. The real legacy, hard work and ingenuity lies with the original founders. I don't see what this has to do with Romney's flip-flopping though.

21 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:02:30pm

re: #19 jaunte

What a pity then that the SCOTUS judges he will appoint will vote to take away rights based on sexual orientation.

22 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:03:35pm

re: #18 Decatur Deb

Think of it as a pre-school internship.

I'm not hating on Bright Horizons. It might be a great company...but it's a company. Capitalizing it wasn't a conscientious choice, it was an assessment of growing worth over time. It says fuck all about Romney that he put in money.

23 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:03:58pm

re: #21 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

What a pity then that the SCOTUS judges he will appoint will vote to take away rights based on sexual orientation.

Well. When you come down to it. It's all about Mittens.

Go ahead. Ask me about Amway products.

24 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:04:13pm

re: #20 Gus

It serves as a good distraction and gets some attention, anyway.

I don't think it can possibly be better established that Romney is craven in his pursuit of political power. The thing is, I don't see most of the 'conservatives' viewing this as a bad thing. To them, from what I read, it makes him an employee, a guy who'll do what he's told, who'll appoint anti-choice judges, break down the barriers between church and state, remove environmental protections, weaken labor laws, etc. That he lacks ethical backbone I think is actually a positive to a large swathe of the modern GOP.

Sure, the paleocons can't stand him, but the calculating 'government should be a business' types do.

Which is why it's important to get out the vote for Obama.

25 jamesfirecat  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:04:33pm

MMMMMMMM.... THAT'S GOOOD IRONY!

"Now mom and dad both have to work whether they want to or not...."

Unless you're fucking rich.

26 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:06:48pm

re: #25 jamesfirecat

MMM... THAT'S GOOOD IRONY!

"Now mom and dad both have to work whether they want to or not..."

Unless you're fucking rich.

Heh.

27 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:09:55pm

So. Do you think Mitt knows how much a gallon of milk costs?

28 Digital Display  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:10:16pm

re: #25 jamesfirecat

MMM... THAT'S GOOOD IRONY!

"Now mom and dad both have to work whether they want to or not..."

Unless you're fucking rich.

Hey now.. Do you realize how hard it is to raise a family with only 200 million in your checking account? It's hell I tell ya. There are cooks, gardeners, cleaning ladies, Nannies to manage.
/

29 Lidane  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:10:53pm

re: #11 goddamnedfrank

Bright Horizons was founded in 1986 and bought by Bain Capital in 2008. Mitt Romney left Bain in 1999.

∴ Mitt Romney had nothing to do with either the founding or acquisition of Bright Horizons.

Exactly.

30 EdDantes  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:11:23pm

re: #3 Obdicut

I'd love to be able to be a stay-at-home dad. Maybe eventually, when my wife has a faculty position.

I was a stay-at-home dad. The most responsibility I have had in my entire life, also the the most rewarding and memorable.

31 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:11:23pm

re: #17 Obdicut

Yep, found that. It's funny-- the corporate governance of Bright Horizons-- like most successful companies, is pro-gay, tolerant and inclusive. It's funny to see it used as a club by paleocons against Romney.

[Link: www.amycontrada.com...]

I tend to give credit to the actual workers in a company rather than the capital behind it, though.

Well, shouldn't the managers of the capital get some credit for investing and managing their capital wisely?

32 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:12:08pm

re: #29 Lidane

No, he really was there for the founding of the original Bright Horizons, and arranged capitalization for it, and, according to one person, recruited some of the original team.

And, as I said, while that's obviously important, the success of a company usually comes from the individual workers far more than the capital investment or the CEO-level strategy.

33 Lidane  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:12:49pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

Well, shouldn't the managers of the capital get some credit for investing and managing their capital wisely?

That depends. Do they give credit to the people who actually work at their companies for any success or do they just call themselves a job creator instead?

34 jamesfirecat  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:12:59pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

Well, shouldn't the managers of the capital get some credit for investing and managing their capital wisely?

Tell you what DF if Mitt Romney founded Bright Horizon's, then Al Gore invented the invented (or at least helped invent) the internet.

35 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:13:04pm

re: #27 Gus

So. Do you think Mitt knows how much a gallon of milk costs?

Probably not. But neither do I, off the top of my head. Mitt should just wave that sort of question off and not respond to it. It's a 'gotcha', and the best policy is to ignore those.

36 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:13:13pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

Well, shouldn't the managers of the capital get some credit for investing and managing their capital wisely?

They get lots of money for it. That's the reward.

Do you mean that the managers should get credit when they invest in good companies, like ones providing childcare, rather than in companies that do crap that fucks up the environment or otherwise harms society?

37 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:13:34pm

re: #34 jamesfirecat

Tell you what DF if Mitt Romney founded Bright Horizon's, then Al Gore invented the invented (or at least helped invent) the internet.

That's not what I said, James.

38 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:14:08pm

re: #35 Dark_Falcon

A gallon of milk costs $4 at the corner store, and $2.49 at the Fairway (for the equivalent kind). The really nice kind costs $4 and has a great glass bottle that I use afterwards.

39 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:14:23pm

re: #3 Obdicut

I'd love to be able to be a stay-at-home dad. Maybe eventually, when my wife has a faculty position.

Tenure is 93.67% as evil as socialist.

40 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:14:53pm

re: #35 Dark_Falcon

Probably not. But neither do I, off the top of my head. Mitt should just wave that sort of question off and not respond to it. It's a 'gotcha', and the best policy is to ignore those.

I don't buy milk. Hate the stuff. I'm pretty sure it's about $3.50 a gallon.

41 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:14:57pm

re: #36 Obdicut

They get lots of money for it. That's the reward.

Do you mean that the managers should get credit when they invest in good companies, like ones providing childcare, rather than in companies that do crap that fucks up the environment or otherwise harms society?

What I nean is that a capital manager who manages the money entrusted to him wisely is doing the world a great service.

42 jamesfirecat  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:15:00pm

re: #37 Dark_Falcon

That's not what I said, James.

If you don't want to see Mitt get credit for founding Bright Horizon's, what do you want to see credit for?

Just being a shrewd businessman?

I'd give him that already.

43 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:15:57pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

What I nean is that a capital manager who manages the money entrusted to him wisely is doing the world a great service.

What do you mean by 'wisely', though? If he manages the money to make more money, no, he's not doing the world a great service. If he's investing in companies that pollute and destroy the environment, or exploit workers and deny them healthcare by making them all part-time to avoid having to cover it, no, he's not doing the world a great service.

So, what do you mean by wisely?

44 Lidane  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:17:59pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

What I nean is that a capital manager who manages the money entrusted to him wisely is doing the world a great service.

LOL no. He's not doing anyone a great service except his investors.

People who genuinely try to improve the world are doing a great service. A capital manager? Not so much.

45 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:18:06pm

You see. As Mitt Romney. I was the man behind Bain Capital and it's acquisition of subsequent success of Bright Horizons in 2008. Now you know I left Bain in 1999 but my name is behind it. Now, if you want to ask me about all the bad things Bain did in 2008 you should know that I left Bain in 1999 so I had nothing to do with that.

It's just that simple because I'm the man.

So. How much you wanna spend on a new car?

46 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:19:16pm

re: #16 The Ghost of a Flea

Childcare services funded by and routed through employers?

Being an investor/founder of a FOR-PROFIT childcare company is your clever riposte?

Mitt profits from working families. Babies given candy promoting tooth decay!

47 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:20:06pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

What I nean is that a capital manager who manages the money entrusted to him wisely is doing the world a great service.

A nurse who cares for elderly by cleaning their bed pans and sores is doing the world a great service too. But for some reason we practically worship the one who makes a fuckload of money. The list can go on.

As somebody who works directly for the 1% I am very well aware all the good they do for the world. They also do bad. But they are not due the elevated status it seems conservatives give them.

48 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:20:08pm

re: #14 Decatur Deb

Well, he could have off-shored it. Pack the little guttersnipes off to Guangzhou.

Mitt's toddler gulag!

49 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:20:56pm

re: #4 labman57

Romney to female voters: "The GOP has stabs your back."

There. Now it's accurate.

50 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:21:49pm

A Mitt Romney Abortion Timeline

• Romney in 1994: I support Roe v. Wade
• Romney in 2002: "Unequivocally" pro-choice
• Romney in 2005: I'm pro-life but will maintain the pro-choice status quo
• Romney in 2007: I'd be "delighted" to sign a bill banning abortion across the country
• Romney in 2007: Extend 14th amendment to unborn child, banning abortion
• Romney in 2008: Return abortion to the states
• Romney in 2012: Return abortion to the states

So. How much you wanna spend on a new car?

51 jamesfirecat  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:22:05pm

re: #49 Interesting Times

There. Now it's accurate.

No it isn't. To be entirely accurate be....

"The GOP has stabs your back uterus with a wand."

52 Altermite  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:24:46pm

If I were running an obama superpac (or his campaign, but superpacs are all about the negative), I'd run two series of ads to attack romney.

One would be entitled 10,000 dollar bet, and include that, followed by a clip or info on other 'disconnect' moments.

The second would be 'reset' button, which would start with the 'reset button' quote, or something similar, followed by a handful of then/now on different issues.

53 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:25:08pm

re: #46 Killgore Trout

Mitt profits from working families. Babies given candy promoting tooth decay!

Nobody forces you not to vote for him.

54 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:25:44pm

Company Origins

The origins of Bright Horizons Family Solutions date back a dozen years to the founding of two companies with remarkably similar goals and histories: Bright Horizons Inc. and Corporate Childcare Development, Inc. Both companies saw an opportunity in the growing trend of corporate-sponsored child-care. Throughout the 1980s, companies experimented with ways to attract and hold employees, particularly women. Along with an increased willingness to accommodate flexible scheduling of work hours, job sharing, and telecommuting, more and more companies were establishing work-site day care for the children of their employees. Setting up and running such a center, however, was quite outside the expertise of most companies, requiring them to learn labyrinthine government regulations and to hire and train caregivers.
Bright Horizons, Inc. was designed to provide the expertise needed to set up and manage these corporate day care centers. Founded in 1987, Bright Horizons was the brainchild of husband-and-wife team Linda Mason and Roger Brown. At the time, Brown worked as a management consultant for Bain & Company in Boston. Brown and Mason established the company in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and took advantage of the large urban hub of Boston to find clients. Its first major community service program, the Horizons Initiative, also served the greater Boston area. Beginning in 1988, it provided child-care and other services for homeless children.

55 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:25:46pm

re: #51 jamesfirecat

No it isn't. To be entirely accurate be...

"The GOP has stabs your back uterus with a wand."

Heh. On that note, Bill Maher has a talent for saying things that are incredibly dumb, or things that are incredibly true. In the latter category falls this comment from last night's show:

"When women think of who to vote for, they can choose between free birth control or vaginal probes."

56 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:26:05pm

re: #46 Killgore Trout

Mitt profits from working families. Babies given candy promoting tooth decay!

Way to deflect the point I raised and turn into your own imaginary version of moonbat-speak.

Get back to me when you've finished off that there straw man.

57 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:27:37pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Company Origins

OMG, Mitt helped homeless families too? I'm Outraged!

58 jaunte  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:28:30pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

RINO!

59 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:30:33pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

The investment by Bain in the company wasn't atruistic, though, and I don't think Bain has a reputation as an ethical investor in general, do they?

60 Bunky Bunk  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:31:29pm

re: #30 EdDantes

I've been home with our son for the past nine months and it has been a wild, wild ride. I have always considered myself an "enlightened" man, but it has been eye opening. I'm three credits shy of my MS and working towards the CPA and can barely find the energy to shave my face. Can't say I'd change it, though. Being able to take my kid to visit my wife for lunch at her demanding job (while we're expecting our second, no less) to brighten her day, all while bonding with him has been very rewarding. Miss the moolah, however.

61 Killgore Trout  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:33:40pm

re: #58 jaunte

RINO!

It's actually kind of a bummer that Mitt is running in this election under these circumstances. He's almost surely going to lose and he can't run as himself and defend his record. He's probably a decent guy and seems to have done some good things. I think he'd be a fine president but with today's GOP he can't present himself a the candidate that he is.

62 allegro  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:34:04pm

I will give him credit for supporting a company that helps families as it makes a profit. Why not? Programs like this increase productivity - it's a cheap way to get more out of employees without having to pay them more. That it's helpful to employees happens to be a win-win. I don't for a moment believe that his motivation was anything other than seeing profits from everything we know about the man. I have seen not a shred of genuine empathy in him. It still sounds like a fine company though and I hope it continues to be successful for all of the right reasons.

63 prairiefire  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:34:09pm

re: #60 Bunky Bunk

At least you don't have to shave your legs as well.

64 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:34:47pm

re: #55 Interesting Times

Heh. On that note, Bill Maher has a talent for saying things that are incredibly dumb, or things that are incredibly true. In the latter category falls this comment from last night's show:

"When women think of who to vote for, they can choose between free birth control or vaginal probes."

Important to note that the vaginal probes are NOT free.

65 MikeTheModerateDemocrat  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:35:44pm

Jason Alexander was right about the old Mitt Romney.

Too bad there is no real etch-a-sketch effect. The 1994 Romney would have a snowball's chance of being president.

66 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:35:48pm

Also DH, I'm a business owner. Soon to have employees. I jumped out on my own, I take risks and my ass is really on the line.

If we succeed I'm going to get paid really well. Maybe the employees will make some $ too.

But I don't think that I'm due any extra worship just because I made $ or 'created jobs.' If I didn't start this business, I'd work for another company. Prospective employees would work for those other companies.

If I have 10 employees, that is not zero employees if I didn't start the business at all. Maybe 8 of them would be working for competitors. If this turns out really well maybe I'll 'create' 2 jobs of that 10... but that would be because of all of us, not necessarily me personally.

So you can understand that I take Romney's success with a grain of salt. I don't begrudge him success or fortune but I don't give him the hero's honor I've seen him given nor the level of respect I perceive you give him. I work for some guys that could buy Romney out a few times and some of them are good dudes and very impressive individuals, some not so much. This is not meant as a boast at all, just my perspective on wealth and success and their role in society.

67 allegro  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:35:50pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

It's actually kind of a bummer that Mitt is running in this election under these circumstances. He's almost surely going to lose and he can't run as himself and defend his record. He's probably a decent guy and seems to have done some good things. I think he'd be a fine president but with today's GOP he can't present himself a the candidate that he is.

He could have. He chose not to. This kind of cowardice is how the GOP got to where it is.

68 Bunky Bunk  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:35:59pm

re: #63 prairiefire

Wait, I don't?

69 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:36:23pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Why do continue to believe that Romney has some magical hidden good side to him? Is there any actual basis for that belief, except that most people don't think that it's true so you'll take the contrarian position?

Romney's record, even as governor, is pretty conservative. Where are you seeing the 'decent guy'?

And how do you square that belief with the fact that he is, you know, actually running as the GOP candidate, with the GOP being the atavistic, raving bunch of nutbars that it is these days?

70 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:37:23pm

re: #69 Obdicut

most people don't think that it's true so you'll take the contrarian position?

Bingo.

71 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:39:10pm

In honor of Easter, here is the stuff of nightmares:


Dissection of Creme Egg

72 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:39:55pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

He's probably a decent guy and seems to have done some good things. I think he'd be a fine president but with today's GOP he can't present himself a the candidate that he is.

Poor, poor, poor Mitt Romney. He's forced, I tell you forced, to take funds from sick sociopaths who torture and murder animals:

Presidential hopeful Mitt Romney, who once strapped his dog to the roof of the family station wagon before embarking on a road trip, has again chosen to thumb his nose at the all-important dog vote by throwing a fundraising birthday party for his wife Ann at the house of Frederick Malek III. While to most people, Malek is just another rich guy who respects Romney's Reaganesque hair, to dogs, Malek is a living terror — when he was a youth, he was arrested for animal cruelty after police discovered that he and some friends had killed and barbecued a dog. What the everloving hell is wrong with Mitt Romney?

73 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:40:01pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

OMG, Mitt helped homeless families too? I'm Outraged!

The Government helped homeless families, Bright Horizons profits:

Child Care Benefit (CCB)
Our centre is registered as a provider of “Approved Care” under the Child Care Benefit scheme. There are two ways to receive the CCB subsidy, which are:
1. Reduced Fee: the amount of your fee subsidy is deducted from the daily fee you pay to us, and we collect the CCB subsidy on your behalf from the FAO; or
2. Full Fee: you may elect to pay the full daily fee to us, and then you claim a lump sum refund via the Family Assistance Office at the end of the financial year.

Bright Horizons is a business, not a charity. Mitt Romney belongs to a party that hates and seeks to eliminate exactly this kind of government social safety net spending. It's disturbing to see you spread half truths and lies by omission to try and cast the man as something other than he is. And no matter what Brown's association with Bain and Romney was, whether Mitt provided consulting advice or was a genuine uncredited "founder" like your unsupported claim, there was no altruistic motive at play, it was always about making money.

74 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:40:34pm

re: #72 Interesting Times

Poor, poor, poor Mitt Romney. He's forced, I tell you forced, to take funds from sick sociopaths who torture and murder animals:

Fred Malek counted Jews for Nixon.

75 palomino  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:42:17pm

So, in the 90's, Romney admitted that it wasn't the 1960's anymore. But now that we're in the 2010's, he won't make such a "bold" statement any longer. He's a profile in the opposite of courage. He's got the spine of a jellyfish, and the lack of core convictions to match. Over the last 20 years he's taken virtually every side of every issue. A complete joke of a candidate who may very well win because Obama didn't fix America's worst economy in 80 years overnight, and because the right, including Romney, might have some success with the "Obama's not one of us" lie.

Whatever sacrifices Ann Romney had to make to raise her 5 kids, at least she had a choice. She did NOT have to work, plain and simple. Nothing against her, but it's laughable to think she has the experience to relate to single moms and most working women.

76 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:42:31pm

re: #74 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Fred Malek counted Jews for Nixon.

I was only following orders.

//

77 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:43:21pm

re: #74 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Fred Malek counted Jews for Nixon.

Mitt Romney pals around with sick anti-Semitic sociopaths who engage in Jew-counting, and torture and murder animals. Such a decent guy 9_9

78 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:45:03pm

re: #75 palomino

Romney's best achievement, the one that might make me believe he's got some decency to him and wants to help people, or at least wants the system to work better, was universal health insurance in Massachusetts. Which he's now running away from, lying about, and, more importantly, trying to prevent occurring on a larger scale, for the nation. That's a weird and special kind of shitty behavior.

79 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:45:07pm

re: #77 Interesting Times

Mitt Romney pals around with sick anti-Semitic sociopaths who engage in Jew-counting, and torture and murder animals. Such a decent guy 9_9

Do you think the New Black Panthers should be arrested? Yes or no? How is this different?

//

80 prairiefire  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:45:09pm

With five boys to raise, I would take all the help I could get! I'm glad we stopped at two. The third would probably be sleeping in a box on the back deck./

81 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:46:00pm

re: #77 Interesting Times

I'm not sure there's any signs that Malek himself was an anti-Semite, just willing to go along with an anti-Semitic program. Which is plenty bad enough.

82 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:46:52pm

re: #80 prairiefire

With five boys to raise, I would take all the help I could get! I'm glad we stopped at two. The third would probably be sleeping in a box on the back deck./

By their 5th child Mitt and Ann were living in van down by the river.

//

83 Obdicut  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:48:39pm

Looks like Malek did lie repeatedly about his involvement with demoting Jewish-sounding people, though.

[Link: www.slate.com...]

What an asshole.

84 palomino  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:49:32pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

It's actually kind of a bummer that Mitt is running in this election under these circumstances. He's almost surely going to lose and he can't run as himself and defend his record. He's probably a decent guy and seems to have done some good things. I think he'd be a fine president but with today's GOP he can't present himself a the candidate that he is.

The "candidate that he is?" What IS Romney, other than a shape shifter who desperately wants his party's nod, even if any and all core convictions he ever had must be jettisoned. Not the kind of guy one usually thinks of as "fine" presidential material.

Romney can't even present himself as the same candidate he was back in 2008. That guy defended Romneycare as something he was proud of that could serve as a model to the federal govt. Now he has to defend and malign his own plan simultaneously; but if anyone can pull off such a feat, it's Etch-a-Sketch Mitt.

85 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:49:57pm

Ha ha ha:

86 EdDantes  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:50:14pm

Mitt Romney's entire campaign is predicated on his business acumen. If he were poor that would undermine hi entire campaign. And, yes, Nixon was an anti-Semite.

87 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:50:49pm

re: #69 Obdicut

Why do continue to believe that Romney has some magical hidden good side to him? Is there any actual basis for that belief, except that most people don't think that it's true so you'll take the contrarian position?

For some, I think the fact that he's worth a couple of hundred million means he's OK.

88 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:51:48pm

Wifey wants thai food, BBIAW.

89 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:52:48pm

re: #64 Oblivious Troll

Again, the Republicans essentially want to make virginity tests the law of the land. Oh sure, they call it differently, and they have a different excuse, but it is the same concept.

90 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:54:23pm

PDF of Malek's documents: [Link: nixon.archives.gov...]

91 Vicious Babushka  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:56:24pm

All passed over for this year. My daughter went out to get pizza.

92 palomino  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 7:56:44pm

re: #78 Obdicut

Romney's best achievement, the one that might make me believe he's got some decency to him and wants to help people, or at least wants the system to work better, was universal health insurance in Massachusetts. Which he's now running away from, lying about, and, more importantly, trying to prevent occurring on a larger scale, for the nation. That's a weird and special kind of shitty behavior.

His website makes the case that Obamacare is unconstitutional based on the commerce clause, but that Romneycare is immune to such challenge on the state level due to the state's police power. Fair enough, I suppose, but if Romney really believed in the plan and wasn't afraid to run on it, he'd be encouraging other states to follow MA's lead. Despite the fact that he supported it on a national level two years ago, he now shies away from even supporting it for other states.

As you said, it's the best thing he did as Governor. MA now has one of the lowest uninsured rates in the US, along with very strong approval from the state's voters. Romneycare is the man's signature achievement, but he would rather not talk about it. Completely bass-ackwards.

93 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:06:07pm

re: #71 Obdicut

In honor of Easter, here is the stuff of nightmares:

Dissection of Creme Egg

Halloweaster.

94 BishopX  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:06:23pm

The thing to remember about Romney's tenure as the governor of Massachusetts, is that he didn't have much power, and wasn't interested in what he had. He ran a decent, technocratic administration which was regularly steamrolled by a democratic super majority (more than 700 vetoes overridden) and devoted the last 18 months of his time in office to running for president. He failed to show any kind of leadership with regards to same-sex marriage, didn't handle the big dig follow up well, and generally served as a figure head when he wasn't traveling out of state to promote himself has a presidential candidate.

Yes, he signed health care reform into law, but I wouldn't give him all that much credit for it honestly.

95 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:11:51pm

Live chasing a tornado, video included, about to hit Wichita:

[Link: content.wdtinc.com...]

96 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:12:20pm

re: #95 freetoken

I saw that on Wunderground. Oh shit.

97 EdDantes  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:15:47pm

re: #95 freetoken

When I lived in Oklahoma, we ran away from tornadoes. Color us cautious.

98 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:17:00pm

Republicans are so fucking stupid

FOXX: I went through school, I worked my way through, it took me seven years, I never borrowed a dime of money. He borrowed a little bit because we both were totally on our own when we went to college, totally. [...] I have very little tolerance for people who tell me that they graduate with $200,000 of debt or even $80,000 of debt because there’s no reason for that. We live in an opportunity society and people are forgetting that. I remind folks all the time that the Declaration of Independence says “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” You don’t have it dumped in your lap.

Eat shit, Virginia Foxx, seriously eat shit

give felon pig racist birther G Gordon Liddy a big hug for me, you pigs deserve each other

99 prairiefire  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:18:45pm

re: #95 freetoken

Live chasing a tornado, video included, about to hit Wichita:

[Link: content.wdtinc.com...]

Son of a bunker.

100 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:21:21pm

Funny to look at a near real time map of where the online storm chasers are located - they're right now all piled up on I35 heading into Wichita.

101 prairiefire  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:23:01pm

I've got the weather radio set to "alert". I hate nightime tornados the most. Can't see the son of a bitches coming!

103 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:26:36pm

re: #101 prairiefire

I've got the weather radio set to "alert". I hate nightime tornados the most. Can't see the son of a bitches coming!

True. Though if they hit business/school districts at that time, casualties should be much lower than they'd be during the day.

104 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:27:42pm

That team is now in a dangerous situation.

105 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:28:31pm

Hotspot is Haysville.

107 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:29:13pm

My mom works as a Medical Transcriptionist. One of the accounts she was given by her employer is a clinic in Wichita.

108 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:29:16pm

Barometer: 29.47" (996.8 mb)

109 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:29:35pm

re: #108 Gus

984mb

110 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:31:12pm

re: #109 freetoken

984mb

WU?

111 palomino  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:32:19pm

re: #98 windupbird is in the gravity well

Republicans are so fucking stupid

Eat shit, Virginia Foxx, seriously eat shit

give felon pig racist birther G Gordon Liddy a big hug for me, you pigs deserve each other

She's total trash. Voted against extending the Voting Rights Act, voted against the aid package for Katrina victims...the kind of Rep. you'd expect from a southern predominantly rural district that's 90% white.

When she graduated from a state school (UNC) back in 1968, she probably had extremely low tuition and no need for large loans. But you'd think someone with a doctorate in education might see more value in making college affordable.

112 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:33:30pm

Heh. SNL's opening skit is a reunion of all the candidates.

113 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:33:44pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

I think he'd be a fine president but with today's GOP he can't present himself a the candidate that he is.

The common wisdom is that to win the primaries a presidential candidate has to cater to the party extremists, and once that is accomplished the nominee has to move to the middle for the general election. So Mitt was out there in Iowa trying to hang with the extremists, lest he be left behind.

But when there are 7 people fighting for the nomination, why not be the one candidate who just says no to the extremism and instead appeals to the party centrists right from the start. Let the other 6 fight over the fringe voters while you pull from the other end.

That way you don't have to flip-flop and change tack after the nomination is secure. Mitts undoing was that he feigned the far right streak to win early primaries in States that don't matter all that much in the general. And now when he tries to distance himself from the pandering he did early on, he just comes off as a wet fish who doesn't feel strongly about anything except his desire to get elected.

114 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:33:49pm

re: #98 windupbird is in the gravity well

Republicans are so fucking stupid

Eat shit, Virginia Foxx, seriously eat shit

give felon pig racist birther G Gordon Liddy a big hug for me, you pigs deserve each other

It occurs to me that all "modern" conservative policies can also be summed up with words that begin with c:

- compassionless
- callous
- clueless
- cruel

115 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:33:53pm

TORNADO WARNING
KSC173-150400-
/O.NEW.KICT.TO.W.0032.120415T0309Z-120415T0400Z/

BULLETIN - EAS ACTIVATION REQUESTED
TORNADO WARNING
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE WICHITA KS
1009 PM CDT SAT APR 14 2012

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN WICHITA HAS REISSUED A

* TORNADO WARNING FOR...
SEDGWICK COUNTY IN SOUTH CENTRAL KANSAS...

* UNTIL 1100 PM CDT

* AT 1007 PM CDT...A CONFIRMED LARGE AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TORNADO
WAS LOCATED NEAR CLEARWATER...AND MOVING NORTHEAST AT 30 MPH.

THIS IS A PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS SITUATION.

HAZARD...DAMAGING TORNADO.

SOURCE...SPOTTER CONFIRMED TORNADO.

IMPACT...MAJOR HOUSE AND BUILDING DAMAGE LIKELY AND COMPLETE
DESTRUCTION POSSIBLE. NUMEROUS TREES SNAPPED. MAJOR POWER
OUTAGES IN PATH OF TORNADO HIGHLY LIKELY. SOME ROADS
POSSIBLY BLOCKED BY TORNADO DEBRIS. COMPLETE DESTRUCTION
OF VEHICLES LIKELY.

* LOCATIONS IMPACTED INCLUDE...
DOWNTOWN WICHITA...GODDARD...MULVANE...HAYSVILLE...DERBY...WICHITA
MID CONTINENT AIRPORT...SOUTH WICHITA...WEST WICHITA...MCCONNELL
AIR FORCE BASE...MAIZE...EAST WICHITA...PARK CITY...VALLEY
CENTER...NORTHEAST WICHITA...OAKLAWN...BEL AIRE...JABARA AIRPORT
AND KECHI.

THIS INCLUDES THE KANSAS TURNPIKE BETWEEN MILE MARKERS 34 AND 54.
THIS INCLUDES INTERSTATE 135 BETWEEN MILE MARKERS 0 AND 22.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

TO REPEAT...A LARGE...EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND POTENTIALLY DEADLY
TORNADO IS ON THE GROUND. TO PROTECT YOUR LIFE...TAKE COVER NOW. MOVE
TO AN INTERIOR ROOM ON THE LOWEST FLOOR OF A STURDY BUILDING. AVOID
WINDOWS. IF IN A MOBILE HOME...A VEHICLE OR OUTDOORS...MOVE TO THE
CLOSEST SUBSTANTIAL SHELTER AND PROTECT YOURSELF FROM FLYING DEBRIS.

TORNADOES ARE DIFFICULT TO SEE AND CONFIRM AT NIGHT. TAKE COVER NOW.

&&

LAT...LON 3748 9768 3791 9745 3791 9716 3748 9715
TIME...MOT...LOC 0309Z 215DEG 25KT 3753 9744

TORNADO...OBSERVED
TORNADO DAMAGE THREAT...SIGNIFICANT
HAIL...2.50IN

$$

KLEINSASSER

116 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:34:00pm

re: #109 freetoken

WHAT?!?!?!

That's horribly low for a normal storm system. You usually see that in Strong Category 1 Hurricane

117 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:34:41pm

re: #111 palomino

The more you tell be of this woman, the more I hate that cock-eyed piece of shit.

118 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:34:54pm

re: #116 ProGunLiberal

Were you watching that stream as they were caught om part of the inflow?

They are at the Boeing facility now, looks like lots of metal thrown around.

119 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:36:46pm

re: #118 freetoken

No, I've been following Jeff Master's blog.

120 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:36:53pm

TORNADO WARNING
KSC[no phone numbers allowed]00-
/O.NEW.KICT.TO.W.0035.120415T0327Z-120415T0400Z/

BULLETIN - EAS ACTIVATION REQUESTED
TORNADO WARNING
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE WICHITA KS
ISSUED BY NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TOPEKA KS
1027 PM CDT SAT APR 14 2012

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN WICHITA HAS ISSUED A

* TORNADO WARNING FOR...
WEST CENTRAL BUTLER COUNTY IN SOUTH CENTRAL KANSAS...
EASTERN SEDGWICK COUNTY IN SOUTH CENTRAL KANSAS...

* UNTIL 1100 PM CDT

* AT 1019 PM CDT...TORNADO EMERGENCY FOR THE WICHITA METRO AREA. A
CONFIRMED LARGE...VIOLENT AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TORNADO WAS
LOCATED NEAR HAYSVILLE...AND MOVING NORTHEAST AT 50 MPH.

THIS IS A PARTICULARLY DANGEROUS SITUATION.

HAZARD...DEADLY TORNADO.

SOURCE...RADAR CONFIRMED TORNADO.

IMPACT...THIS IS A LIFE THREATENING SITUATION. YOU COULD BE KILLED
IF NOT UNDERGROUND OR IN A TORNADO SHELTER. COMPLETE
DESTRUCTION OF ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOODS IS LIKELY. MANY WELL
BUILT HOMES AND BUSINESSES WILL BE COMPLETELY SWEPT FROM
THEIR FOUNDATIONS. DEBRIS WILL BLOCK MOST ROADWAYS. MASS
DEVASTATION IS HIGHLY LIKELY MAKING THE AREA
UNRECOGNIZABLE TO SURVIVORS.

* LOCATIONS IMPACTED INCLUDE...
SOUTHERN AND EASTERN WICHITA METRO AREA...PARK CITY...BEL
AIRE...ANDOVER...BENTON...EAST WICHITA...MCCONNELL AIR FORCE
BASE... AND KECHI.

PRECAUTIONARY/PREPAREDNESS ACTIONS...

THIS IS AN EXTREMELY DANGEROUS TORNADO WITH COMPLETE DEVASTATION
LIKELY. YOU COULD BE KILLED IF NOT UNDERGROUND OR IN A TORNADO
SHELTER. DO NOT DELAY...SEEK SHELTER NOW! IF NO UNDERGROUND SHELTER
IS AVAILABLE SEEK SHELTER IN AN INTERIOR ROOM OF THE LOWEST LEVEL OF
A STRUCTURE...OR IF TIME ALLOWS...CONSIDER MOVING TO AN UNDERGROUND
SHELTER ELSEWHERE. MOBILE HOMES AND OUTBUILDINGS WILL OFFER NO
SHELTER FROM THIS TORNADO.

&&

LAT...LON 3791 9728 3773 9701 3753 9729 3761 9745
TIME...MOT...LOC 0326Z 230DEG 45KT 3763 9725

TORNADO...OBSERVED
TORNADO DAMAGE THREAT...CATASTROPHIC
HAIL...2.50IN

$$

GARGAN

121 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:37:11pm

Mitt can NOT win. Ann seems a great gal, but Mitt does NOT have what it takes to beat Obama.

122 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:38:30pm

re: #121 Dancing along the light of day

Mitt can NOT win. Ann seems a great gal, but Mitt does NOT have what it takes to beat Obama.

He does. He has a two party system...

123 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:38:59pm

re: #119 ProGunLiberal

They were in a very dangerous situation, with continuous 70mph winds, probably in the inflow very, very near the actual vortices.

124 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:39:44pm

They've got almost 4000 viewers at peak, and the stream is dying on me, but the tornadoes have moved on.

125 wrenchwench  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:42:04pm

re: #121 Dancing along the light of day

I found this today. I think it's the giraffe that's talking.

126 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:44:54pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

You are such a sweetie!
*smooch*

127 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:44:57pm

CNN has tornado coverage. Fox is discussing our evil socialist C-in-C. MSNBC... prison.

128 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:45:52pm

Looks like it's skirting across McConnell AFB right now. Heading east.

129 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:46:59pm

re: #128 Gus

I hope that everyone is safe!

130 Targetpractice  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:47:06pm

But remember folks, AGW is a massive hoax perpetuated by a international conspiracy of scientists and politicians.

///

131 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:50:38pm

re: #129 Dancing along the light of day

I hope that everyone is safe!

Wanna see something crazy?

[Link: radar.weather.gov...]

132 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:50:41pm

re: #98 windupbird is in the gravity well

Republicans are so fucking stupid

Eat shit, Virginia Foxx, seriously eat shit

give felon pig racist birther G Gordon Liddy a big hug for me, you pigs deserve each other

Selfish stupid old people don't realize how fucking cake things used to be. I can't find data for UNC Chapel Hill where Foxx went to school and got her undergraduate degree in 1968, but here is a historical tuition cost chart for the University of Virginia. The oldest school year on that chart is 1970-71, with a yearly tuition cost of $330. If we correct for inflation that comes out to $1831.94 in 2010 dollars while Virginia tuition for the 2010-11 was $8356, meaning the real cost of tuition alone has outstripped inflation by 456% in that time frame.

133 Varek Raith  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:52:54pm

re: #131 Gus

Wanna see something crazy?

[Link: radar.weather.gov...]

Holy crap Batman!

134 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:53:42pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

Selfish stupid old people

"I'll take 'What do the GOP base, GOP establishment, and GOP donors have in common' for $500, Alex."

135 Targetpractice  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:54:08pm

re: #131 Gus

Wanna see something crazy?

[Link: radar.weather.gov...]

Yegods!

136 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:57:38pm

re: #131 Gus

I've seen much worse. Today was a day of strong tornadoes, but the storms last year were even scarier. Of course, we're justing hitting the peak of the tornado season now, so who knows what's to come.

I remember a few years back the couple of "tornado-canes" that occurred, one in KS, the other in NC I believe. That's when the super-cells start to organize themselves into a larger structure, built around a lower pressure center. Quite impressive to view on RADAR.

137 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:58:15pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

Another way to look at that is if it took 7 years for Virginia Foxx to graduate debt free in 1968, that same accomplishment would take 32 years now, assuming tuition remains flat, which is utterly unrealistic since the largest increases are occurring in the present.

138 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 8:59:54pm

re: #136 freetoken

I've seen much worse. Today was a day of strong tornadoes, but the storms last year were even scarier. Of course, we're justing hitting the peak of the tornado season now, so who knows what's to come.

I remember a few years back the couple of "tornado-canes" that occurred, one in KS, the other in NC I believe. That's when the super-cells start to organize themselves into a larger structure, built around a lower pressure center. Quite impressive to view on RADAR.

Everything seems to be doing OK thus far. A hospital was impacted in Creston, IA. No structural damage. Patients are being evacuated according to CNN.

139 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:00:09pm
140 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:02:04pm

Still waiting to see what happened in Haysville.

141 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:02:35pm

re: #138 Gus

That was earlier today, fortunately the northern end of the warning area didn't turn out as bad as feared.

However, Kansas has had quite a day:

[Link: www.spc.noaa.gov...]

142 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:03:08pm

re: #139 ProGunLiberal

Is this what you are talking about?

Yeah, I think that was one of them.

143 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:03:42pm

re: #137 goddamnedfrank

And I would guess that it takes more credit hours to graduate with a degree now than it did 40 years ago. I know that is true at least for engineering degrees.

144 Interesting Times  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:04:59pm

Every time I hear about massive tornado outbreaks, or see video thereof, this theme music plays in my head o_O

145 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:08:52pm

re: #141 freetoken

That was earlier today, fortunately the northern end of the warning area didn't turn out as bad as feared.

However, Kansas has had quite a day:

[Link: www.spc.noaa.gov...]

Heading towards Eureka County, KS now.

[Link: radar.weather.gov...]

146 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:11:39pm

Approaching or passing through El Dorado, KS now.

147 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:12:35pm

Barometer: 29.53" (999.1 mb)

148 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:15:29pm

A couple of chasers who are broadcasting are following the cell which hit Wichita as it moves NE, but I doubt they'll get any video to compare to the "SWAT Chasers" video I linked first. That team was right next to one of the tornadoes in Wichita, and their video was showing just about anything that wasn't nailed down flying horizontal.

149 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:18:35pm
150 Varek Raith  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:19:02pm

re: #139 ProGunLiberal

Is this what you are talking about?

Epic hook echo is epic.

151 Digital Display  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:20:09pm

re: #130 Targetpractice

But remember folks, AGW is a massive hoax perpetuated by a international conspiracy of scientists and politicians.

///

There will have to be a political solution to this environmental issue we face.
The currents of the debate are deep and complex.
This reminds me of story from a couple weeks ago I was going to post here.
I stopped in at the Lodge and a bunch of older cowboys and farmers were having a beer watching the news and the weather report was on. I walk up to the bar and sat down..The discussion turned to climate change ( I was in shock this is effen Oklahoma with a bar full of Cowboys)
The Cowboys were amazing with their views.. But the reason I wanted to post this was at the end of the bar was this old cowboy in his 10 gallon hat.. He looked like he was 80 and out of the blue he yelled out down the bar.. If anybody doesn't believe in climate change they can just kiss my F*cking ass...everybody was laughing...

152 Varek Raith  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:21:29pm

re: #98 windupbird is in the gravity well

Republicans are so fucking stupid

Eat shit, Virginia Foxx, seriously eat shit

give felon pig racist birther G Gordon Liddy a big hug for me, you pigs deserve each other

15 miles in the snow!

153 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:21:56pm

One report out of Kansas:

75 percent of the town of Thurman was destroyed. The town
has been evacuated with an emergency shelter in a nearby
town. No power in the town. No major injuries.

154 Digital Display  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:24:01pm

re: #153 ProGunLiberal

One report out of Kansas:

It's horrible PGL..Hope everybody stays safe tonight

155 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:28:03pm

re: #153 ProGunLiberal

Wikipedia lists Thurman as a ghost town:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I suspect that name is used informally today by locales to refer to the whole area?

156 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:44:08pm

re: #155 freetoken

Wikipedia lists Thurman as a ghost town:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I suspect that name is used informally today by locales to refer to the whole area?

Iowa

157 Varek Raith  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:44:29pm

re: #156 Gus

Iowa

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

158 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:50:42pm

re: #157 Varek Raith

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: news.google.com...]

159 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:57:45pm

re: #158 Gus

Thanks.

New storm just west of there in SE Nebraska has just popped up another tornado. Plus two more on the ground in KS right now.

Night time tornadoes are scary things.

160 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:58:49pm

And now Lincoln, Nebraska.

161 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:59:34pm
162 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 9:59:50pm

re: #159 freetoken

I wonder how much strength the Wichita cell will have when it gets toward Kansas City.

163 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:01:04pm

re: #162 ProGunLiberal

Apparently, the Wichita tornado is still on the ground, and moving toward Kansas City.

164 jaunte  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:07:04pm

re: #161 Gus

Wayne LaPierre, lifetime lobbyist, gun industry shill, and millionaire. Never a soldier, never a law enforcement officer.
[Link: civilliberty.about.com...]

165 ProGunLiberal  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:07:27pm

re: #163 ProGunLiberal

That clown-hole has been around for 5 fucking hours, and originally spawned in Woodward, OK.

Another one started in OK, came extremely close to Greensburg, then careened through Macksville, St. John, Hudson, Lyons, and Salina

166 abolitionist  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:16:02pm

Rape victims say military labels them 'crazy'
By David S. Martin, CNN

STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Women accuse military of using psychiatric diagnoses to oust sexual assault victims
"I couldn't trust my chain of command to ever back me up," says an alleged victim
3,191 military sexual assaults reported in '11: "Unacceptable," says defense secretary
Pentagon is assessing its training for sexual assault prevention and response

Editor's note: CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta will report further on allegations of sexual assault in the military Saturday and Sunday April 21 and 22 at 7:30 a.m. ET on "Sanjay Gupta MD" on CNN.

A couple websites established by one of the subjects of this article: stopmilitaryrape mydutytospeak

Excerpt from the former:

Our Executive Director
[snip]
Panayiota has worked extensively on issues pertaining to women veterans including serving as the Coordinator for Women Veterans for the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. She worked on women issues on four continents. She also worked under contract for a foreign military improving their sexual assault program.

Panayiota graduated summa cum laude in 2009 with a degree in Sociology and Women Studies and a minor in Criminal Justice. She hold a certification in rape counseling from the Boston Area Rape Crisis Center.

Panayiota awards include:

Peter Vogel Gold Leadership Award (twice)
Peter Vogel Silver Leadership Award
Massachusetts 2010 Unsung Heroine

167 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:16:30pm

Ironic after all of that pearl clutching.

168 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:19:04pm

re: #161 Gus

“In the aftermath of one of Florida’s many daily tragedies, my phone has been ringing off the hook,”

He's a dick. The reason that particular story made headlines is that the authorities tried to sweep a murder under the rug. If the NRA leadership had any sense they would have been out front calling for further investigation instead of just taking the knee-jerk reaction that the white guy with the gun permit must have been justified killing the black kid. This one incident will set the NRA's push for Stand Your Ground back years, for good reason.

169 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:20:52pm

re: #167 Gus

Texas billionaire Harold Simmons pledges $36m to GOP, and calls Obama "the most dangerous American alive."

Good thing McCain-Feingold reformed political financing so well..

170 Kragar  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:22:31pm

Note: verify authenticity before dining at authentic Japanese steakhouse.

171 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:24:40pm

re: #169 Mich-again

Good thing McCain-Feingold reformed political financing so well..

That's a big lump of change. Anyone who thinks that we are all "created equal" in this country is a freaking idiot. Anyone that doesn't think big money doesn't control this nation is also a freaking idiot. With Citizens United and other aspects of the political system I see America become more and more a corporate nation as people get less of a voice. Wingnut, Teabaggers, conservatives, etc, are all the useful idiots of this corporate domination.

172 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:25:10pm

re: #162 ProGunLiberal

I wonder how much strength the Wichita cell will have when it gets toward Kansas City.

Generally speaking, a cell can spawn a very many tornadoes over its lifetime, if it is riding the line between the drier, cooler air mass and a warmer, moister air mass. "Cells" are continually morphing, some lasting longer than others.

What one can see on the current radar image, and I've seen this on nearly every time I've checked a regional radar image, is that individual cells gradually lose their independence and become part of a line of storms. I forget what the technical term is for this line, but the net result is that the cooling in the air around the condensation becomes a large outflow of cold air, and that will eventually flow as a large mass, and the edge of this large mass look like a large bow echo on the radar. However, these bring rain and hail, but not usually tornadoes.

As the air cools overnight (via IR emitting into space) there will be less convection, less chance of tornadoes, until the morning when the sun starts to heat the ground again. Sunday the action if there is any will be in Wisconsin.

173 austin_blue  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:30:12pm

re: #169 Mich-again

Good thing McCain-Feingold reformed political financing so well..

Simmons is the guy who is in charge of this:

[Link: www.wfaa.com...]

Money talks, bullshit walks.

174 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:36:52pm

Spent 14 hours on air planes and in air ports and am now home.

Dogs are home.

All is cool.

How are you-all?

175 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:39:33pm

I know this has been posted before, but we need another viewing.

Cutenss!

176 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:40:02pm
177 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:40:50pm

Kansas Lizards OK?

178 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:44:15pm

Have a great evening/morning all!

179 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:45:30pm

re: #173 austin_blue

That opens a lucrative market for the $450 million facility, the only one of its kind in the nation. It is owned by Dallas billionaire/philanthropist Harold Simmons.

OK, so one old rich dude who bought influence to get the permit gets all the cash for potentially contaminating the whole region. It seems to me, there should be some kind of mining rights in reverse for the people in the surrounding area.

If it was an oil or gas field, the people in the area would share in the cash flow, it wouldn't just all go to the one guy who owned the few acres where the pumps were located. So when someone is dumping waste that affects the value of the land in the surrounding region, everyone nearby should share in the cash that is generated.

180 sagehen  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:48:18pm

re: #179 Mich-again

OK, so one old rich dude who bought influence to get the permit gets all the cash for potentially contaminating the whole region. It seems to me, there should be some kind of mining rights in reverse for the people in the surrounding area.

If it was an oil or gas field, the people in the area would share in the cash flow, it wouldn't just all go to the one guy who owned the few acres where the pumps were located. So when someone is dumping waste that affects the value of the land in the surrounding region, everyone nearby should share in the cash that is generated.

SOCIALIST!!

181 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:51:49pm

re: #176 Gus

Ohh.... icky weird.

182 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:52:36pm

re: #181 Kronocide

Ohh... icky weird.

Zealots. Just as I figured all along.

183 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:57:04pm

Stephen Fry I have no idea why I follow him. He never has anything interesting to say on Twitter. Just a lot of twaddle like Ricky Gervais.

184 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:57:21pm

re: #182 Gus

I just wonder how all the Mormon-istic behavior will affect the SoCon base of the GOP. Will they just ignore it and vote for Mitt anyway, or will they really rebel against the idea of voting for a non-Christian (some say "Satanic") cult?

185 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:59:40pm

re: #184 freetoken

I just wonder how all the Mormon-istic behavior will affect the SoCon base of the GOP. Will they just ignore it and vote for Mitt anyway, or will they really rebel against the idea of voting for a non-Christian (some say "Satanic") cult?

I don't know. Frankly it doesn't seem much different from your typical Republican Christian base.

186 Mich-again  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 10:59:51pm

re: #176 Gus

There's an idea for a business in there.. Customers can live a life of sin guilt free, as long as they pay the fee beforehand for our technicians to convert you after you die. Pay now and we'll throw in a free gift!

187 freetoken  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:06:21pm

re: #185 Gus

I don't know. Frankly it doesn't seem much different from your typical Republican Christian base.

Well, I'd say that about Islam and Judaism also - they are all variations on a theistic religion born out of Canaanite remnants.

However, to each individual variant of theism, the other variants appear extremely different, even "evil", and thus they go to war with each other.

188 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:09:48pm

re: #187 freetoken

Well, I'd say that about Islam and Judaism also - they are all variations on a theistic religion born out of Canaanite remnants.

However, to each individual variant of theism, the other variants appear extremely different, even "evil", and thus they go to war with each other.

There's a great deal of ethnic commonality between Mormons and American Christians. Ethnic as in ancestral and familial bonds.

189 Gus  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:15:58pm

I'm going to find something unrelated to politics to watch and hit the hay. Whew. Mah brain hurts. Later.

190 Digital Display  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:17:44pm

Woodward, OK just got hit by a bad tornado..Hit homes and 2 apt. buildings.
Woodward news got a awesome video on the tornado lit up with background explosions..
Hope everybody is OK The south end of the storm arrives here around 4am.
So I'm not going to freaking bed tonight..It's Sat. Night and this kid isn't hitting the sack until it's safe here...
1) On-Demand movies
2) Food.. Thinking about making the sandwiches and snacks..Went shopping at 9am today..
3) Imported beer..ice cold
4) A bathtub with blankets, pillows and a flashlight ready for me and winston to jump into at 4 freaking AM.
5) blog on LGF

191 Digital Display  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:24:23pm

re: #190 HoosierHoops

Guy on TV says to plug in your cell phone while we still have power.. Good idea!

192 Four More Tears  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:30:23pm

re: #191 HoosierHoops

Guy on TV says to plug in your cell phone while we still have power.. Good idea!

And keep it safe from open toilets. :P

193 Digital Display  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:31:56pm

re: #192 Oblivious Troll

And keep it safe from open toilets. :P

you cut me man..you cut me deep..
*wink*

194 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:39:45pm

re: #192 Oblivious Troll

And keep it safe from open toilets. :P

LOL!

195 Digital Display  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:42:27pm

re: #194 Dancing along the light of day

LOL!

Hi You.. I lost all my contacts from The BlackBerry..Can you call me sometime?

196 Kronocide  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:43:24pm

I'm Following American Thinker.

Hoo Boy, the derp is strong right from the source.

197 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:50:03pm

re: #195 HoosierHoops

You want a ringydingy?

198 Digital Display  Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:52:49pm

re: #197 Dancing along the light of day

You want a ringydingy?

It's about 2am and Winston And I are waiting for the storm to arrive in 2 hours..I'm watching F1 racing, Eating and drinking a beer..Wide awake..
Call Me! LOL

199 boredtechindenver  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 12:03:17am

Snowing in SW Denver. probably moving east.

200 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 12:03:30am

Did a quick survey of the usual atavists (Hotair, Townhall, WND) and I see they are doubling down in coming up with new variations on old outrages. Really challenged when it comes to quantitative thinking, too, as demonstrated with numerous articles on magical oil production and magical economics. The owners of Salem Communications are very rich and very religious and they are doing their best to lower their own tax rates at the expense of the idiots in the pews.

201 Four More Tears  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 12:17:43am

Radio Protector - 65daysofstatic

202 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 12:28:04am

Dammit. How do you cache a web page? I can't seem to remember nor find a place to tell me how to do it.

203 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 12:41:16am

re: #202 Kronocide

Dammit. How do you cache a web page? I can't seem to remember nor find a place to tell me how to do it.

Most browsers have the capability to "Save" a webpage as an "archive", IOW the file saved will include all the images, etc.

If you mean looking for caches others have done online, Google is the most used. In their redesign it's kind of funky, but when you do a simple search on something and scroll over the results the pop-up to the right will be a cache, if there is one, with a link to the cache.

There's also the "Internet Archives" that has some stuff, but only a tiny fraction of what has transpired on the internet:
[Link: archive.org...]

204 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 12:42:34am
205 researchok  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 1:23:40am

Morning, all

206 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 1:31:00am

Video of tornado which hit Wichita:

[Link: www.kwch.com...]

207 Kragar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 2:19:38am

Kind of pissed with myself. Surprised the wife with a birthday dinner at a fancy restaurant instead of our usual place and now we both agree the place was lousy, overrated and overpriced, and we're both starving.

208 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 2:28:42am

re: #207 Kragar

I freaking hate it when that happens. One of the first restaurants my wife and I went to in New York was a fancy Korean and sushi joint. It was really over-decorated, full of people being ostentatious in their conversation, but the food sucked. The sushi had terrible texture. It made me so damn mad, because they must know their food sucks, right? And yet they keep charging high prices for it.

On the other hand, the dinner we just had a week or so ago at this Cuban joint in honor of Cuban Independence Day was a triumphal marge of gustatory goodness.

209 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 2:46:14am

Damn. Gave a sushi joint another chance after about 4 years. Seems pricey, but cute, and close to the water.

Ordered some appetizers (Wifey likes to just eat apps). They all came out together with the main course, plus miso and salad.

Ordered a bottle of sake. New waitress brought Asahi. I said no, cold sake. She asked me why I didn't want hot sake... I said cold sake.

But the sushi was good and Wifey like her teriyaki treats.

210 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 2:52:39am

re: #209 Kronocide

I said no, cold sake. She asked me why I didn't want hot sake... I said cold sake.

Wow. I guess she's not a sake drinker.

My favorite everyday drinking sake is Man's Mountain.

211 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 2:58:10am

Hmm.... bottle looks familiar. I'm pretty sure I'd like it.

212 freetoken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 3:18:56am
213 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 3:20:51am

tokin' for free....

214 Kragar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 3:20:54am
215 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 4:36:29am

Mornin' Cupcakes.

216 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 4:43:00am

re: #215 RogueOne

Mornin' Cupcakes.

Howdy!

217 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 4:45:24am

Good Morning.

218 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 4:46:13am

re: #216 Darth Vader Gargoyle

How's life CPT? Hitting the road pretty often?

219 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 4:48:36am

re: #218 RogueOne

How's life CPT? Hitting the road pretty often?

Got a couple weeks home before we hit the far east. Cali was fun. Toured Google, Oracle, Cisco, Facebook, Apple, Brocade and Juniper. Hit Pier 39, Lombard street and Haight Ashbury during our time off, plus some good brewpubs and wineries. Tough gig.

220 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 4:49:49am

Hoosier Was there much damage in your area from the storms?

221 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 4:50:24am

re: #219 Darth Vader Gargoyle

The life of a warrior can be brutal some days. I wonder if they give purple hearts for paper cuts...

222 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 4:50:57am

George Zimmerman's pic made out of skittles...Skittles!

223 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 4:53:26am

re: #221 RogueOne

The life of a warrior can be brutal some days. I wonder if they give purple hearts for paper cuts...

Also got to see the old blimp hangars at Moffet field. They are in the process of refurbing so half the structure is naked down to the girders. Big ass things.

224 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 4:57:19am

Morning all!

225 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:00:15am

re: #223 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Is that where you flew in? Taking a blimp out for a joyride would be pretty nifty.

226 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:02:21am

Hubby watched the "Price of Gas" bitch fest against Obama on Fox last night with some guy I've never heard of and Sarah Palin.

It's Spring-Time and we have the annual Outrage over the Price of Gas. Never fails. I am so tired of it.

227 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:05:54am

Got to see the most awesome Banyan tree in Lahaina on Maui. It actually made the whole trip worth while. It was the most awesome thing I've ever seen. Honestly.

228 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:11:11am

re: #226 ggt

Stop watching cable news, it's unhealthy. I have zero sympathy for the president on the gas issue. You don't get to use gas prices to bash your opponent in one race and then get the right to complain it's unfair when it's used against you in the next.

229 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:13:50am

re: #225 RogueOne

Is that where you flew in? Taking a blimp out for a joyride would be pretty nifty.

We flew commercial into SFO, stayed at the Moffet Navy Lodge.

230 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:16:40am

re: #228 RogueOne

Stop watching cable news, it's unhealthy. I have zero sympathy for the president on the gas issue. You don't get to use gas prices to bash your opponent in one race and then get the right to complain it's unfair when it's used against you in the next.

I wish, others in the household turn it on. I hear it.

No, I don't care about the politics of it because it's stupid. I'm just tired of hearing about it every Spring.

231 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:18:25am

re: #230 ggt

We'll add it to the list of the sounds of spring. So far we have birds chirping, frogs calling, the sound of gunfire, and bitching about gas prices....

232 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:18:52am

And I still don't understand how drilling here will lower the price HERE. I think it will just benefit the oil companies and the politicans in their pocket.

233 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:21:16am

Cat Overlord has not let us alone since we've been home. I thought he'd be so pissed he wouldn't talk to us for a week.

Did find a nice "present" on our bed, tho.

234 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:25:48am

re: #232 ggt

And I still don't understand how drilling here will lower the price HERE. I think it will just benefit the oil companies and the politicans in their pocket.

It would create jobs here.

235 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:26:33am

re: #234 Darth Vader Gargoyle

It would create jobs here.

ah!

236 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:30:52am

Gotta run get ready for Church. Enjoy the day lizards!!

237 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:31:33am

re: #236 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Put in a good word for me...

238 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:45:09am

re: #176 Gus

Fucking weird.

Yes, the Romneys Converted Mitt’s Dead Atheist Father-in-Law to Mormonism

Interesting how many falsehoods are packed in that piece. Not only Mormons don't convert anyone after their death, Mitt's FiL was not even an atheist.

239 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:46:49am

re: #202 Kronocide

Dammit. How do you cache a web page? I can't seem to remember nor find a place to tell me how to do it.

[Link: webcitation.org...]

240 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:47:29am

re: #207 Kragar

Kind of pissed with myself. Surprised the wife with a birthday dinner at a fancy restaurant instead of our usual place and now we both agree the place was lousy, overrated and overpriced, and we're both starving.

I hear you. Whenever I go to a pricey place and find it less than spectacular, I'm pissed that we didn't just go to one of a couple of Vietnamese places or a Burmese place that are inexpensive and really, really good every single time.

241 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:48:46am

re: #239 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

[Link: webcitation.org...]

However aside from taking screenshots, there is no way to save a page with dynamically loaded content, such as comment section.

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:50:08am

And screenshots can't serve as evidence by themselves, since they are easily forged. They depend strictly on their creator's reputation. Conundrum.

243 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:53:40am

re: #242 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

And screenshots can't serve as evidence by themselves, since they are easily forged. They depend strictly on their creator's reputation. Conundrum.

wrapped in an enigma

244 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:54:56am

re: #161 Gus

Why do these guys all look the same? I mean. Like they're all related or something.

All that constant whining about victimhood has a characteristic way of remolding your facial muscles. It also tends to cause a tell tale deforming of fingers from constantly wiping tears out of your eyes.

245 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:56:00am

Mmmm hmmmm.

[Sling blade]

246 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:57:51am
247 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:59:01am

re: #246 Gus

This is useful:

Counter-Jihad report: International Counter-Jihadists map

Brevik is on their masthead?

248 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:01:10am

re: #247 ggt

Brevik is on their masthead?

Is that a rhetorical question?

249 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:01:29am

re: #248 Gus

Is that a rhetorical question?

maybe?

250 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:04:53am

I'm going back to bed for a while.

I might dream all the answers and all the questions.

251 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:08:02am
252 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:11:55am

re: #246 Gus

Pretty impressive.

253 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:13:00am

re: #247 ggt

Brevik is on their masthead?

A little late here. That's because quite a few of those "counter-Jihad" sociopaths inspired Anders Breivik.

254 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:14:30am

re: #251 Gus

After all the boring noise last week, this "dignity of work" should blow up in his face.

255 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:15:52am

re: #254 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

After all the boring noise last week, this "dignity of work" should blow up in his face.

Here's the quote:

"I wanted to increase the work requirement," said Romney. "I said, for instance, that even if you have a child 2 years of age, you need to go to work. And people said, 'Well that's heartless.' And I said, 'No, no, I'm willing to spend more giving day care to allow those parents to go back to work. It'll cost the state more providing that daycare, but I want the individuals to have the dignity of work.'"

256 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:17:12am

re: #255 Gus

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but he said that stay-at-home moms don't have a dignity of work and therefore they don't actually work.

257 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:17:47am

re: #256 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Why does Mitt Romney hate Ann Romney?//

258 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:18:28am

re: #256 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but he said that stay-at-home moms don't have a dignity of work and therefore they don't actually work.

Hmm. I guess he did.

259 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:19:39am

re: #257 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Why does Mitt Romney hate Ann Romney?//

She had "dignity of work" up until one of his children turned 2. Allegedly.

260 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:20:36am

Fucking tofu.

261 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:20:44am

I'm surprised we never see any "powdered sugar" on Romney's upper lip sometimes.

262 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:23:04am

re: #260 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Fucking tofu.

Fucking Etch-A-Sketch. Did you see the front page?

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

263 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:23:35am

OK. Dick Cheney is doing well now. Fire at will!

264 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:23:54am

re: #262 Gus

There you go.

265 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:25:14am

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

"He has been an unmitigated disaster to the country," Cheney said of President Barack Obama.

Obama should take the gloves off WRT this war criminal.

266 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:27:11am

"I had my doubts about Obama. But thanks to Cheney's anti-endorsement I have no doubt Obama is the right choice!"/

267 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:28:51am

re: #265 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Obama should take the gloves off WRT this war criminal.

Classic no? Here's Dick Cheney who was "second in command" during an era that led us to the worst economic declines in modern history. Most of which was the result of a war based on largely false information to take down a ME dictator who frankly was a creation of the American government to being with. Cheney will just keep on snarling. The Democrats will continue to be afraid of their own shadows.

268 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:29:48am
269 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:30:35am

re: #267 Gus

I don't buy the "puppet Bush" narrative, but certainly Cheney played a role much more significant than Joe Biden (luv him, but let's be honest). Fuck'm.

270 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:32:12am

re: #268 Gus

Ugh.

271 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:33:35am

re: #270 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Ugh.

Who would have thought huh? Well, at least he didn't get shot in the eye with a tear gas canister.

272 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:34:09am

re: #268 Gus

But beyond "ugh", I want to know the backstory. This is not acceptable in any case, but I could understand it if it was some guy shouting antisemitic stuff.

273 Sionainn  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:35:21am

re: #256 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but he said that stay-at-home moms don't have a dignity of work and therefore they don't actually work.

That's what it sounds like to me.

274 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:37:44am

re: #272 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

But beyond "ugh", I want to know the backstory. This is not acceptable in any case, but I could understand it if it was some guy shouting antisemitic stuff.

Oh. It was a "Peaceful Cycling Tour In Palestinian Valley." Let me check...

275 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:38:05am

Context is everything. And since the last week I was on a Minchin binge (listening to his discography):

[Link: naurunappula.com...]

276 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:38:30am

Looking at the Tempest in a Teapot... hang on... ;)

277 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:38:59am

re: #274 Gus

Thanks. What we're seeing is a few seconds, so I'm not jumping to any conclusions yet.

278 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:40:28am

re: #277 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Thanks. What we're seeing is a few seconds, so I'm not jumping to any conclusions yet.

Yeah. Guy says something to an invincible IDF dude and gets his face smashed. Must be a reason since they're usually "always right." ;) Still looking.

279 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:41:54am

re: #278 Gus

Oh, this soldier should be punished in any case. But if he heard something like ... well, I won't even type it... I could understand it as a human. Not saying that's what's happened.

280 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:42:05am

re: #277 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Thanks. What we're seeing is a few seconds, so I'm not jumping to any conclusions yet.

Check your DM on Twitter. Don't want to cause any pearl clutching with the link in here.

281 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:46:05am

re: #280 Gus

Damn. Trying to remember the twitter pass 'ere. :P

282 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:48:56am

re: #274 Gus

Oh. It was a "Peaceful Cycling Tour In Palestinian Valley." Let me check...

For some reason that made me laugh. Next week they're holding their annual "Happy Trail Walkathon" through Damascus.

283 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:49:42am

re: #279 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

one of those "I'm not saying it was right...but I understand" things?

284 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:50:13am

re: #281 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Damn. Trying to remember the twitter pass 'ere. :P

Here's the report. I won't post the link because people still hold a lot of bigoted opinions about this and at the same time one might find themselves siding with bigots from the other end as well:

Israeli forces Saturday broke up with force a cycling tour around the Jordan Valley and assaulted the participants injuring and arresting a number of them, said a press release.

It said Israeli soldiers stopped the 250 participants at road number 60 in the West Bank village of al-Ouja and refused to allow them to start the bicycle tour, which would have taken the participants on a 25 kilometer tour of the Jordan Valley.

When the participants in the event sponsored by the youth group, Sharek, with the participation of water officials from the Water and Environmental Development Center of Al-Ouja Environmental Center, refused to obey orders not to cycle along the highway, the soldiers used force to disperse them.

A number of the participants were injured and taken to hospital in Jericho while others were arrested, Including international participants. The tour was then canceled without the participants being able to complete their environment awareness tour in the Jordan Valley and Jericho area.

The events was intended to also draw attention to the water problems facing the Palestinian village in the Jordan Valley, which is gradually being taken over by Israeli settlers.

285 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:50:29am

re: #283 RogueOne

one of those "I'm not saying it was right...but I understand" things?

Only potential. I'm just withholding the judgment before I hear the other side.

286 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:51:45am

re: #283 RogueOne

one of those "I'm not saying it was right...but I understand" things?

Yeah. Well. All of this kind of reminds me of the "America love it or leave it" mentality. Toss empathy out the window; point and laugh; choose sides for the ball game; and then watch people continue to die. Ain't it great?

287 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:54:32am

I'm not a fan of rw Israeli govt, or of the occupation. I'm just sayin', 48 hour rule.

288 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:55:09am

re: #286 Gus

Just out of curiosity I wonder if the chubby IDF guy was a reservist.

289 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:55:48am

re: #288 RogueOne

Just out of curiousity I wonder if the chubby IDF guy was a reservist.

I was wondering that myself. Seemed like he could have been some kind of "cop."

290 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:56:56am

I'm looking to see if it's too late to join the "Tranquil 10-k Through Tripoli" but I can't find the sign up page.

291 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 6:58:12am

re: #287 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

I'm not a fan of rw Israeli govt, or of the occupation. I'm just sayin', 48 hour rule.

Of course not. But hey. I realize when I talk about this stuff I'm just walking along the "Maginot Line" of logic and reason since this is always seen as a "special case" and where certain conclusion can be easily ascribed to any other country this one is given a wide berth for fear of certain repercussions and false accusations and alliances.

292 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:00:24am

re: #291 Gus

True. However, I've seen so much ugliness from both sides of that conflict that I'm hesitant about quick judgments.

293 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:02:12am

re: #289 Gus

That's a little rough. If he were a cop he would have screamed "Stop resisting!" first and they'd still be kickin' his ass....

294 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:02:25am

re: #292 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

True. However, I've seen so much ugliness from both sides of that conflict that I'm hesitant with quick judgments.

This was just a goofy bike ride/protest. But. I'm sure they were breaking some regulation. Likely they reached a point where they weren't allowed to enter.

295 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:05:26am

re: #294 Gus

Oh, I have no problem with the event as such, but extremists can slither even into goofy events. If there's a fuller video, with the (beaten) guy saying nothing offensive... Well, that's a whole 'nother thing than if he was hurling insults.

296 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:07:00am

re: #295 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Oh, I have no problem with the event as such, but extremists can slither even into goofy events. If there's a fuller video, with the (beaten) guy saying nothing offensive... Well, that's a whole 'nother thing than if he was hurling insults.

Let me look. I'm sure the PA side was riddled with douche bags as well.

297 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:09:38am

re: #296 Gus

If it was one of those Critical Mass rallys he made have had it coming. // Remember this incident?

(edit: I added sarc tags. No pearl clutching!)

298 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:12:27am

re: #295 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Even then it's out of line. When you put on a uniform you have an obligation to not do anything to embarrass the others out there wearing it.

299 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:13:22am

re: #298 RogueOne

Even then it's out of line. When you put on a uniform you have an obligation to not do anything to embarrass the others out there wearing it.

Oh, I've been saying from the start (see above) that it's not acceptable.

300 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:13:58am

re: #299 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Admit it, it's even funnier in slo-mo!

301 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:14:21am

re: #300 RogueOne

Nope, won't. ;)

302 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:16:43am

re: #297 RogueOne

If it was one of those Critical Mass rallys he made have had it coming. // Remember this incident?

[Embedded content] (edit: I added sarc tags. No pearl clutching!)

#Firstworldproblems

303 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:18:31am

re: #297 RogueOne

If it was one of those Critical Mass rallys he made have had it coming. // Remember this incident?

[Embedded content] (edit: I added sarc tags. No pearl clutching!)

Any news of what happened to the cop? That press release from the PD is an absolute joke. Sorry - edited. That police report filled out by the cop is a complete joke.

304 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:22:24am

re: #302 Gus

That one still cracks me up. They arrested that guy for resisting arrest, attempted assault, and disorderly conduct. That's just amazing.

305 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:23:07am

re: #304 RogueOne

That one still cracks me up. They arrested that guy for resisting arrest, attempted assault, and disorderly conduct. That's just amazing.

Some cops simply have to go to prison... with the general population.

306 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:23:59am

re: #303 Talking Point Detective

I remember there being a settlement but I don't know what happened to the officer. He may have gotten a medal for the scratch on his arm from getting assaulted like that.

307 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:24:10am

Ethno-nationalism is still nationalism.

308 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:25:27am

What's the IDF version of the purple heart? That chubby guy stubbed his thumb when he had to brain that blonde kid.

309 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:25:31am

Eggshells!

310 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:27:14am

A counter-revolution is still a revolution.

A counter-revolutionary is still a revolutionary.

Vietnamization.

311 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:27:24am

re: #307 Gus

It's the primary form of nationalism. While I see any nationalism negatively, there's no way but to tolerate moderate forms, since most people are nationalist and this won't go away ever.

312 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:32:41am

re: #311 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

I think it's possible to replace nationalism with something-else-ism, but that's about it.

313 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:33:12am

re: #311 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

It's the primary form of nationalism. While I see any nationalism negatively, there's no way but to tolerate moderate forms, since most people are nationalist and this won't go away ever.

Yep. That's the crux of it all. While you might find yourself opposing ethno-nationalism from the other side you no sooner realize that the side you're defending (which is the easily perceived underdog) is also an ethno-nationalist state or culture. It might not go away. Yes. But while it may seem bad at times it really has gotten better.

The other night I watched "Hearts and Minds" which is a documentary about the Vietnam War as viewed from a leftist perspective. They have some interesting footage there. It focuses of course on Americans and Vietnamese people. People have changed. A lot. Watch it if you get a chance.

314 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:34:04am

As long as it's "our people is so great, I'm partial to someone just because (s)he belongs to the same ethnic group as I am", it's just goofy, but not necessarily harmful. It's radical nationalism when "love own people" becomes hatred for "the other".

315 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:36:12am

The joke of the Vietnam War:

Image: L_B_Johnson_Model_Khe_Sanh.jpeg

316 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:36:52am

re: #315 Gus

Boys and their toys.

317 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:37:11am

Ex-Reporter Sues After Alleged Police Brutality Deleted Off Camera
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Rodda was filming the entrance of the club from the parking lot, when Officer Lopez allegedly pushed a young patron to the ground while working crowd control for the police department. Lopez has reportedly been disciplined for similar conduct in the past.

Rodda was soon asked to leave by a club employee and two officers, including Lopez, who demanded the camera tape, which Rodda refused and tried to leave.

Lopez frisked and searched Rodda's purse without consent, later admitting Rodda was compliant throughout the whole process, according to the suit. The officer took the camera.

When the tape was returned to the station the clip of the patron being thrown to the ground was gone. Lopez later admitted she took the camera home, viewed the tape and did not tag the camera into evidence with the police department.
.....
Rodda was charged with criminal trespass by Lopez in June of last year, and went to trial February of this year. Crow said the prosecution did not present enough evidence to get the case in front of a jury and the case was eventually dismissed by the judge.
...
KOB confirmed Rodda was charged on May 31, 2011. Rodda now works for the New Mexico Corrections Department as director of public information.

I would think the lawsuit might cause a little tension around the office.

318 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:39:27am

re: #316 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Boys and their toys.

You gotta laugh. A teacher and an economist looking over a map of Khe Sanh. Walt Whtiman Rostow was an asshole WRT to Vietnam. As was LBJ. I agree with the film. They all lied about Vietnam: Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon. Thank goodness for Vietnam though they survived and are doing quiet well considering what they went through. We should not look the other way however. We must face our errors and feel shame.

319 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:41:39am

re: #318 Gus

How was that one asshole quoted here quite recently? "America always the greatest force for the good" or something?
I don't mean to bash the US (not that anyone else has been much better), but really.

320 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:41:59am

But if you watch Hearts and Minds... damn... Democrats used to be very conservative compared with today. I was too young to notice at the time.

321 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:42:55am

In this world it's almost always a lesser evil, rather that a greater good.

322 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:43:10am

re: #319 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

How was that one asshole quoted here quite recently? "America always the greatest force for the good" or something?
I don't mean to bash the US (not that anyone else has been much better), but really.

Don't remember or recall. Seems to be a common statement even today.

323 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:44:39am

SNAFU. OK, I gotta work a bit.

324 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:44:44am

re: #321 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

In this world it's almost always the lesser evil, rather that a greater good.

Here's one...

My name is Michele Bachmann.

Entrusted to every American is the responsibility to watch over our republic. You can look back from the time of the pilgrims to the time of William Penn to the time of our founding fathers. All we have to do is look around, because very clearly, we are encompassed about with a great cloud of witnesses that bear witness to the sacrifices that were made to establish the United States and the precious principles of freedom that make it the greatest force for good that has ever been seen on the planet.

325 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:45:34am

Not that any of this crap is important or politically relevant but....
The Other War on Moms: No Nanny, No Maid at the Romney Home

326 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:45:49am

re: #321 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

PS: "it's" pertains to the situation in general, rather than to the US specifically, lest the statement be misconstrued.

327 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:46:26am

re: #325 Killgore Trout

Not that any of this crap is important or politically relevant but...
The Other War on Moms: No Nanny, No Maid at the Romney Home

I thought that people in Romney's tax bracket were supposed to be called "job creators"...

328 RogueOne  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:47:26am

re: #326 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Liar. Why do you hate America, commie!

329 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:48:12am

re: #325 Killgore Trout

Actually, it says no full-time maid.

330 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:48:35am

re: #328 RogueOne

Yeah, well, that statement followed the other, so it could be taken to be referencing it, which it didn't. OK, bbl.

331 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:48:56am

re: #329 Obdicut

Actually, it says no full-time maid.

"part-time job creators", then?

332 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:49:13am
333 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:52:42am

re: #325 Killgore Trout

Not that any of this crap is important or politically relevant but...
The Other War on Moms: No Nanny, No Maid at the Romney Home

He. Did you hear that Fred Malek will be at Ann's birthday party? He's in the Romney inner circle now. He's a also a good buddy with your old friend Sarah Palin. That's the guys that allegedly created a "list of Jews" for Nixon and also BBQ'd a dog once.

334 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:54:02am

Found this on Free Republic. You gotta admit...

Image: 14quc2.jpg

335 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:54:07am

re: #333 Gus

He. Did you hear that Fred Malek will be at Ann's birthday party? He's in the Romney inner circle now. He's a also a good buddy with your old friend Sarah Palin. That's the guys that allegedly created a "list of Jews" for Nixon and also BBQ'd a dog once.

It's not alleged, it's proven that not only did he create the list of supposed Jews for Nixon, but he was then also responsible for demoting or sidelining at least four of them. And he's lied, often, about his role in this.

336 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:54:42am

re: #335 Obdicut

It's not alleged, it's proven that not only did he create the list of supposed Jews for Nixon, but he was then also responsible for demoting or sidelining at least four of them. And he's lied, often, about his role in this.

I like to use the word "alleged" a lot. Allegedly.

337 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:56:30am

re: #336 Gus

I like to use the word "alleged" a lot. Allegedly.

Well, it was a list of alleged Jews, since somehow their investigation was just to find people with "Jewish-sounding" names.

338 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:56:38am

re: #333 Gus

He. Did you hear that Fred Malek will be at Ann's birthday party? He's in the Romney inner circle now. He's a also a good buddy with your old friend Sarah Palin. That's the guys that allegedly created a "list of Jews" for Nixon and also BBQ's a dog once.

Is he the new Bill Ayers/Rev. Wright?

339 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:58:18am

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Is he the new Bill Ayers/Rev. Wright?

Yep.

Fist bump!

340 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 7:58:34am

re: #337 Obdicut

Well, it was a list of alleged Jews, since somehow their investigation was just to find people with "Jewish-sounding" names.

Yeah, I just checked his Wiki page, I'd never heard of him before. He compiled the list of Jewish sounding names, he didn't have access to religious information. He since acknowledge the mistake and apologized.

341 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:00:35am

re: #340 Killgore Trout

He's also continued to lie about whether he was responsible for those people getting demoted, though. So no, he hasn't acknowledge or apologized for the entire affair, which is pretty pathetic.

342 Amory Blaine  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:01:11am

How is it known he didn't have access to religious information?

343 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:03:15am

re: #340 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I just checked his Wiki page, I'd never heard of him before. He compiled the list of Jewish sounding names, he didn't have access to religious information. He since acknowledge the mistake and apologized.

Doesn't matter. Technically speaking that may be correct. But in a campaign where Obama's going to face the same old lying Swift Boating crew you gotta play hardball. Now is not the time to pretend we're in some hipster upper-middle class coffee house and bookstore. Ergo...

Ann Romney birthday guests to include Fred Malek who collected "Jewish sounding names" for the disgraced president, Richard M. Nixon.

Thems the breaks.

344 kirkspencer  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:03:30am

re: #325 Killgore Trout

Not that any of this crap is important or politically relevant but...
The Other War on Moms: No Nanny, No Maid at the Romney Home

The other day, when someone posted the article of Ann saying they'd been poor college students who'd had to sell some of Mitt's stock to pay for college and their apartment, I was additionally boggled and amused when she said they couldn't even afford babysitters except for during classes.

Admittedly this is 1969ish, but still, they could afford babysitters for classes. She didn't have to balance with his classes so one of them was home all the time, she didn't have to sacrifice her education so he could get his (or the rare at the time vice versa).

For what it's worth, i think they're so out of touch they don't realize how out of touch they are. An anecdote to demonstrate.

Years ago I attended a church that had a large number of very wealthy individuals. The women's group my wife attended became enamored of a book suggesting trying to live 'like the poor' for a period of time to gain empathy. The incomes tossed around... The LOWEST income tossed around, for "just two or three months at most", was half again what my family made - $50,000 a year when the median income for the US was around $47,000. We, and over half the population of the US, was "poor" by their measure. The capper: all but one of the women considered themselves middle class. (The one exception was rich by everyone's measure.)

345 kirkspencer  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:05:44am

re: #344 kirkspencer

Clarification on the previous. My income was $50,000. They were talking of "emulating the poor" by trying to live on a bit over $6,000 per month for two or three months.

347 Amory Blaine  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:11:42am
349 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:14:56am

re: #348 Millicent Islam

Good link.

Yeah. Saw it on Twitter. Figured it was good now that big mouth is talking again. That being the liar Dick Cheney. It's safe again now that he's recovered and don't have to deal with the fake right-wing pearl clutching because of his illness. You know how those fakers get.

350 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:15:56am

re: #349 Gus

Yeah. Saw it on Twitter. Figured it was good now that big mouth is talking again. That being the liar Dick Cheney. It's safe again now that he's recovered and don't have to deal with the fake right-wing pearl clutching because of his illness. You know how those fakers get.

Just like the liberals, to attack this poor man when he's sick!

Yeah, I know what you mean.

351 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:17:23am

re: #337 Obdicut

Well, it was a list of alleged Jews, since somehow their investigation was just to find people with "Jewish-sounding" names.

Like "Zimmerman"?

352 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:17:35am

re: #350 Millicent Islam

Yeah, I know what you mean.

How dare you speak ill of her! She HAD cancer! Right. Like they don't do that with libs or Democrats. Which of course was never relevant anyway. People continued to freely criticize Hitchens when he had cancer. He didn't want it any other way. Heck. Hugo Chavez has cancer.

353 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:18:11am

You can't refute me! I have a tooth ache!

354 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:19:43am

BTW. The Secret Service Director, Mark J. Sullivan, is a Bush appointee. Save that for future reference when dealing with some winger idiot. Because you know what's coming down the pike tomorrow.

355 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:20:35am

re: #354 Gus

BTW. The Secret Service Director, Mark J. Sullivan, is a Bush appointee. Save that for future reference when dealing with some winger idiot. Because you know what's coming down the pike tomorrow.

oooh, good catch. I'll forward that to my friend who has to deal with very wingnutty parents.

356 darthstar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:20:39am

re: #334 Gus

Found this on Free Republic. You gotta admit...

Image: 14quc2.jpg

I wouldn't buy a used car from him.

Mornin' everyone.

357 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:21:10am

re: #344 kirkspencer

I have a healthy disdain for the rich too but all these guys are out of touch. Obama too. Remember when he outrageously complained about the price of arugula? Remember the outrage when Bush didn't know the price of milk? How about John Kerry's choice of iced tea? Don't even get me started on the Kennedy family.
Yes, rich people are out of touch douchebags but I really don't think it's important politics. I also balk at the idea of someone's economic or social status invalidates their opinions on a given topic. It would be shitty and bigoted to apply that rule to poor people and it shouldn't be applied to the rich either.

358 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:21:13am

re: #356 darthstar

I wouldn't buy a used car from him.

Mornin' everyone.

How about Amway products? Can I interest you in some Amway products?

//

359 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:23:34am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

I have a healthy disdain for the rich too but all these guys are out of touch. Obama too. Remember when he outrageously complained about the price of arugula? Remember the outrage when Bush didn't know the price of milk? How about John Kerry's choice of iced tea? Don't even get me started on the Kennedy family.
Yes, rich people are out of touch douchebags but I really don't think it's important politics. I also balk at the idea of someone's economic or social status invalidates their opinions on a given topic. It would be shitty and bigoted to apply that rule to poor people and it shouldn't be applied to the rich either.

That's funny because I can go to the grocery store right now and buy myself some arugula. I can't buy myself a car elevator though.

Note: this contains a secret message.

360 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:23:35am

Why do we keep electing the rich while always complaining about how rich they are? It's pretty absurd.

361 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:23:43am

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Is he the new Bill Ayers/Rev. Wright?

Oh, and this is a rather silly comparison, given that Ayers held a fundraiser for Obama quite awhile ago, and Malek is holding fundraisers-- and apparently has other access to-- Romney right now.

362 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:26:03am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

Someone's economic situation doesn't invalidate their opinion, but it does obviously affect it. Romney really isn't going to understand what growing up poor, or coming from a family with no resources, is like. He may empathize with it, but there's a lot he'll miss-- as he's demonstrated.

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that people are saying that because Romney is wealthy and comes from a very privileged background, that his opinions on any topic are invalid, rather than people pointing out, correctly, that being at such a remove and never really having experienced privation is a factor in the way he thinks about such things.

363 darthstar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:26:39am

re: #358 Gus

How about Amway products? Can I interest you in some Amway products?

//

They're still around, and they've gone upscale with their packaging. No more generic plastic tubs of their shitty goop.

I always thought of Amway as some kind of cult when it first started.

364 allegro  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:26:57am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

I have a healthy disdain for the rich too but all these guys are out of touch. Obama too. Remember when he outrageously complained about the price of arugula? Remember the outrage when Bush didn't know the price of milk? How about John Kerry's choice of iced tea? Don't even get me started on the Kennedy family.
Yes, rich people are out of touch douchebags but I really don't think it's important politics. I also balk at the idea of someone's economic or social status invalidates their opinions on a given topic. It would be shitty and bigoted to apply that rule to poor people and it shouldn't be applied to the rich either.

I don't care one whit how rich anyone is. I have known lovely wealthy people, some I call dear friends, and I've known some assholes. What very much IS applicable with respect to Mr. and Mrs. Romny and their politics is that the social and economic policies they promote are clearly in the "I've got mine (including choices), fuck you" arena. They would deny the choices and opportunities they have had to others. Their status does not invalidate their opinions but neither does it shield them as you seem to be calling for here.

365 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:27:29am

A timely article...
Paul Begala on Obama and Romney: Elitists for President

Which candidate will stoop to connect with the middle class?

And so the presidency of the United States has come down to a choice between Thurston Howell III and the Professor. It’s interesting—and surprising—that in this populist time both parties have nominated leaders from their elite wings.

366 darthstar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:27:56am

re: #360 Killgore Trout

Why do we keep electing the rich while always complaining about how rich they are? It's pretty absurd.

Because money=success, and people want to elect someone whom they think is better than themselves.

367 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:28:07am

I think the opposition thinks we're making a big deal about Romney's then we're actually making. That it's some kind of class warfare and such. It's not really about wealth but the man or woman behind that wealth. How he or she uses that power for personal or political gain not only for themselves but for the citizens of the USA -- especially in this context.

368 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:29:25am

re: #365 Killgore Trout

That article is aliding academic 'elite' with monetary 'elite', which is stretching things quite a bit.

Obviously, Obama is from a much less privileged background and far more of his success is due to his own efforts. He's also, well, a lot more successful than Romney is-- unless the bare acquisition of money is now to be considered 'successful'.

369 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:30:32am

re: #365 Killgore Trout

A timely article...
Paul Begala on Obama and Romney: Elitists for President

It's nothing new. People shouldn't act so shocked about this form of political warfare. What? It happened with Kerry. What we're supposed to call a one-sided truce right now? No fucking way. Again. Thems the breaks. Besides, Begala went to CPAC this year to play the role of a liberal Democrat. Meh. He's a DNC brand.

370 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:30:42am

Malek and the dog barbecue

In 1959, at age 22, Malek was arrested along with five other men in Vicary's Park near Peoria, Illinois, after police found their car spattered with blood, and a dog that had been skinned, gutted and spitted over a barbecue pit in the park. Malek and the other men were charged with cruelty to animals, but the charges against Malek were dropped after one of the others confessed to killing the dog and said he acted alone. Malek has claimed that he did not participate in the incident.

Maybe it was some kind of Aqua Buddha cult initiation.

Seems like a lot of present-day conservatives were involved in some exceedingly weird stuff when they were young, and not harmless stuff at that.

371 allegro  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:31:40am

re: #366 darthstar

Because money=success, and people want to elect someone whom they think is better than themselves.

And because no one can afford to run for an office without considerable assets. I don't think we "choose" the wealthy for office. We don't have the opportunity of choice WRT a candidate's wealth because they're all wealthy by necessity.

372 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:32:30am

re: #370 Shiplord Kirel

Popping in for a second: all of them should have been made to eat that dog. That is all.

373 darthstar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:33:37am

re: #365 Killgore Trout

A timely article...
Paul Begala on Obama and Romney: Elitists for President

MBF alert! Obama an elitist because he's made over a million dollars on his books? Elitism has to do with attitude, not bank balance. President Obama spent time in the trenches, if you will, working with and for the poor as a community organizer. The closest Mitt Romney came to working with the poor was his two year "mission" to France which, apparently, was well-funded.

Sorry, KT, but trying to label Obama as an elitist just isn't going to fly. Keep searching for supporting articles though...

And maybe read this:
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

374 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:36:25am

re: #372 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Popping in for a second: all of them should have been made to eat that dog. That is all.

Get off my lawn!

//

375 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:38:43am

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Company Origins

Good find, Killgore. Sorry I dropped off quick last night. I had insomnia the night before and that meant my narcolepsy hit full force. Nothing to do but go to bed and sleep it off.

376 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:41:07am

You gotta love the right wingers though. They don't want us to talk about Ann Romney. Liberals were on the verge of toning things down and talking less about her. Yet, they can't stop talking about her and keep bringing her up possibly more times now including the GOP who is now raising money on Rosengate. So basically the message is "you there, left wingers, stop talking about Ann Romney and let us keep talking about her in an attempt to make you look bad." Again, another one-sided argument that won't work. If the wingers want us to shut up all I can say is that they should go first. Mitt Romney is using her for his campaign. That makes her open for criticism. Otherwise, if he and the wingers want us to shut up then he needs to stop using her as a campaign prop.

377 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:41:07am

re: #375 Dark_Falcon

Since you're back, you might explain what you meant by an investor investing his money 'wisely' improving society as whole.

378 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:41:22am

re: #364 allegro

I don't care one whit how rich anyone is. I have known lovely wealthy people, some I call dear friends, and I've known some assholes. What very much IS applicable with respect to Mr. and Mrs. Romny and their politics is that the social and economic policies they promote are clearly in the "I've got mine (including choices), fuck you" arena. They would deny the choices and opportunities they have had to others. Their status does not invalidate their opinions but neither does it shield them as you seem to be calling for here.

So all the money they give to charity is 'fuck you'? I should think not.

I'm on my new HP today. It should greatly reduce slow-downs, letting me post more often and be more effective.

379 allegro  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:44:12am

re: #378 Dark_Falcon

So all the money they give to charity is 'fuck you'? I should think not.

I'm on my new HP today. It should greatly reduce slow-downs, letting me post more often and be more effective.

Any money they may have donated to charity has nothing whatsoever to do with what I said. Total strawman. The social and economic policies they promote are absolutely in the fuck you department.

380 allegro  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:47:01am

re: #379 allegro

Any money they may have donated to charity has nothing whatsoever to do with what I said. Total strawman. The social and economic policies they promote are absolutely in the fuck you department.

On second thought, perhaps their charitable giving, i.e. tithes to the Morman church may be applicable as well considering how much of that money went to denying LGBT individuals their civil rights.

381 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:47:52am

re: #376 Gus

If the wingers want us to shut up all I can say is that they should go first. Mitt Romney is using her for his campaign. That makes her open for criticism. Otherwise, if he and the wingers want us to shut up then he needs to stop using her as a campaign prop.

I know I have no chance at dissuading you but I think it's bad tactics to emulate the wingnut attacks on Obama's wife and kids. It's low class, looks bad and distracts from serious issues. People used the same logic to attack Palin's children as well. It doesn't look good.

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

382 darthstar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:48:04am

re: #373 darthstar

One of my favorites from that article (Are you an elitist?):

12. You find it profoundly unfair that, while cretinous Fox News charlatans get to sling "elitist" at anyone of nuanced or open-minded intellect who happens to care about the world, the media refuses to pick up "Karl Rove's toe cheese" as a clever counter-epithet.

Read more: [Link: www.sfgate.com...]

And the last...I do like this one.

18. Your most treasured pieces of writing don't feature Muggles, Hobbits, glossy centerfolds of Dale Earnhardt Jr., dogs named Marley, or an angry and omnipotent patriarch who demands unquestioning subservience and strict adherence to often cruel, arbitrary laws of behavior from on high, who forsakeths thou for months and years at a time and never writes or calls and then suddenly reappears without warning only to rain down hellfire and frogs and locusts and totally inconvenient plagues on everyone, and never even apologizes. And then you're supposed to feel all guilty? For like, 2,000 years? Whatever.

383 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:49:04am

re: #360 Killgore Trout

Why do we keep electing the rich while always complaining about how rich they are? It's pretty absurd.

No poor people run. Like there's a choice.

384 allegro  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:50:03am

re: #381 Killgore Trout

I know I have no chance at dissuading you but I think it's bad tactics to emulate the wingnut attacks on Obama's wife and kids. It's low class, looks bad and distracts from serious issues. People used the same logic to attack Palin's children as well. It doesn't look good.

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

No one here is attacking Ann Romney. We are being critical of statements made by her and her husband in public fora. This is not an attack. It is legitimate debate on topics they themselves have introduced and continue to discuss.

385 jaunte  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:50:32am

re: #379 allegro

The social and economic policies they promote are absolutely in the fuck you department.

The Affordable Care Act list of covered services for women, unanimously opposed by Republicans.

Includes "Domestic and interpersonal violence screening and counseling for all women."

386 darthstar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:51:27am

re: #375 Dark_Falcon

Good find, Killgore. Sorry I dropped off quick last night. I had insomnia the night before and that meant my narcolepsy hit full force. Nothing to do but go to bed and sleep it off.

Narcoleptic insomniac? I guess that's better than being a gullible skeptic.

387 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:52:10am

re: #381 Killgore Trout

This situation with Ann Romney is not similar to Palin and Rosen's criticism is far from an 'attack.'

388 Amory Blaine  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:52:14am

Insomnia is hell.

389 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:52:56am

Good article examining the "our schools are failing" meme, taking on Gates' spending on merit pay and privately run charter schools:

Flunking the Test

The American education system has never been better, several important measures show. But you’d never know that from reading overheated media reports about “failing” schools and enthusiastic pieces on unproven “reform” efforts. Fri., March 30, 2012.

Turns out, our schools aren't "failing" - what's happening is that schools can't fight poverty and we have more poor children. The problem is the "achievement gap" is getting worse, and that's exacerbated by more poverty.

[Link: www.ajr.org...]

390 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:53:24am

The last time a "hard-working man" was elected President was Harry Truman, in 1948. Even Truman was an anomaly for the 20th century.

Abraham Lincoln, in spite of all the political advertising about his humble "log cabin" upbringing, was a wealthy lawyer who lived in this nice house..

391 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:53:36am

re: #287 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

This is why I am on no side right now.

392 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:53:53am

re: #387 Kronocide

This situation with Ann Romney is not similar to Palin and Rosen's criticism is far from an 'attack.'

Yeah, I kind of overlooked the inevitable partisan analogy rejection. Oh, well. Like I said not much can be done about it anyways so carry on.

393 kirkspencer  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:53:53am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

I have a healthy disdain for the rich too but all these guys are out of touch. Obama too. Remember when he outrageously complained about the price of arugula? Remember the outrage when Bush didn't know the price of milk? How about John Kerry's choice of iced tea? Don't even get me started on the Kennedy family.
Yes, rich people are out of touch douchebags but I really don't think it's important politics. I also balk at the idea of someone's economic or social status invalidates their opinions on a given topic. It would be shitty and bigoted to apply that rule to poor people and it shouldn't be applied to the rich either.

When Mitt was seven, his father was Chairman/General Manager of GM. George became a millionaire (which in 1954 meant something more than it does today) before Mitt was born.

I submit that Obama, who wasn't a millionaire till long after he'd graduated from college, has a better understanding of the non-rich than Romney does.

394 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:54:29am

re: #386 darthstar

Narcoleptic insomniac? I guess that's better than being a gullible skeptic.

What it means is that Friday night I couldn't sleep much, and that lack of sleep meant that the narcolepsy I suffer from late at night hit earlier and harder.

BBL

395 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:55:30am

re: #390 Learned Mother of Zion

The last time a "hard-working man" was elected President was Harry Truman, in 1948. Even Truman was an anomaly for the 20th century.

Abraham Lincoln, in spite of all the political advertising about his humble "log cabin" upbringing, was a wealthy lawyer who lived in this nice house..

The stove pipe hat is a sure giveaway of an elitist. It's an interesting point that this has been part of our politics for a very long time.

396 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:56:24am

re: #381 Killgore Trout

So have you found God yet?

397 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:56:33am

re: #357 Killgore Trout

I have a healthy disdain for the rich too but all these guys are out of touch. Obama too. Remember when he outrageously complained about the price of arugula? Remember the outrage when Bush didn't know the price of milk? How about John Kerry's choice of iced tea? Don't even get me started on the Kennedy family.
Yes, rich people are out of touch douchebags but I really don't think it's important politics. I also balk at the idea of someone's economic or social status invalidates their opinions on a given topic. It would be shitty and bigoted to apply that rule to poor people and it shouldn't be applied to the rich either.

Do you have anything more substantial than statements about arugula to determine that Obama is "out of touch?" Is liking arugula somehow mutually exclusive with being in touch?

398 jaunte  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:57:42am

It's easier to get your team outraged over a "smear" of one of their celebrities than it is to get them motivated about what happens to the unknown little people as a result of deliberate policies.

399 allegro  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 8:58:16am

re: #397 Talking Point Detective

Do you have anything more substantial than statemetns about arugula to determine that Obama is "out of touch?" Is liking arugula somehow mutually exclusive with being in touch?

It's the only remotely MBF thing he could think of completely ignoring everything else the man has ever said and done to indicate otherwise. But no partisanship here, of course.

400 Amory Blaine  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:00:31am

Anyone even watching roundtables this morning?

401 Gus  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:01:20am

re: #381 Killgore Trout

I know I have no chance at dissuading you but I think it's bad tactics to emulate the wingnut attacks on Obama's wife and kids. It's low class, looks bad and distracts from serious issues. People used the same logic to attack Palin's children as well. It doesn't look good.

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Look buddy. My comments regarding Ann Romney have in no way ever come close to the wingnut attacks on Michelle Obama. If you really believe this you're either not paying any attention or you're rather clueless. Or put another way, that's a big load of crap.

402 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:03:05am

re: #392 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I kind of overlooked the inevitable partisan analogy rejection. Oh, well. Like I said not much can be done about it anyways so carry on.

Your rejection is rejected on the grounds that you're an anti-partisan ideologue. X 1000 more than whatever you say from here on out.

Or we could just stick to reality, which is that Ann Romney is no Palin by every measure.

403 ProGunLiberal  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:04:10am

re: #380 allegro

That is not what tweaks me most about the Latter-Day Saints though.

404 allegro  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:04:18am

re: #401 Gus

Look buddy. My comments regarding Ann Romney have in no way ever come close to the wingnut attacks on Michelle Obama. If you really believe this you're either not paying any attention or you're rather clueless. Or put another way, that's a big load of crap.

Indeed. Anything Mrs. Obama has said or done in the public fora is legitimate for discussion and disagreement on the merits just as Mrs. Romney's statements. I haven't heard anyone call Mrs. Romney a wookie or whatever hateful nonsense is thrown at Mrs. Obama routinely.

405 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:04:34am

re: #401 Gus

You're just saying that because you're partisan!

406 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:06:08am

{yawn}

Nothing like sleeping for 12 hours after 6 straight grueling days at work

So,,,,, who made coffee ,, and most important, where's mine?

407 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:06:22am

re: #72 Interesting Times

Poor, poor, poor Mitt Romney. He's forced, I tell you forced, to take funds from sick sociopaths who torture and murder animals:

One reason I could never make it in politics--you have to be willing to rub shoulders with really disgusting people. That goes for both sides of the aisle, sadly.

408 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:06:29am

Again popping in for a second: "arugula" is an extremely stupid wingnut meme. Someone who uses it should not be surprised if their other analogies are not taken seriously.

409 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:08:53am

re: #404 allegro


ummm,,,, eeerrrrrr


Image: Ann-Romney-70653657006_xlarge.jpeg

410 jaunte  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:09:21am

Mitt Romney: Mothers Should Be Required To Work Outside Home Or Lose Benefits

Recalling his effort as governor to increase the amount of time women on welfare in Massachusetts were required to work, Romney noted that some had considered his proposal "heartless," but he argued that the women would be better off having "the dignity of work" -- a suggestion Ann Romney would likely take issue with.

"I wanted to increase the work requirement," said Romney. "I said, for instance, that even if you have a child 2 years of age, you need to go to work. And people said, 'Well that's heartless.' And I said, 'No, no, I'm willing to spend more giving day care to allow those parents to go back to work. It'll cost the state more providing that daycare, but I want the individuals to have the dignity of work.'"

Regardless of its level of dignity, for Ann Romney, her work raising her children would not have fulfilled her work requirement had she been on TANF benefits.

411 b_Snark  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:09:49am

re: #396 Gus

So have you found God yet?

Is that the old bearded guy living under the fire escape at the Down & Out Hotel?

412 Amory Blaine  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:10:13am

re: #411 retaEtaeMsseluoS

No that's my dad.

413 b_Snark  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:12:52am

re: #412 Amory Blaine

No that's my dad.

Oh, so that's what he meant. He told me to tell you you're forgiven. For what I have no idea, but you probably know.

414 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:13:08am

re: #408 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Again popping in for a second: "arugula" is an extremely stupid wingnut meme. Someone who uses it should not be surprised if their other analogies are not taken seriously.

I think the War on Moms will beat the War on Arugulan Kenyan Muslim Commie Elitist.

415 jaunte  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:13:15am
416 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:14:20am

re: #381 Killgore Trout

I know I have no chance at dissuading you but I think it's bad tactics to emulate the wingnut attacks on Obama's wife and kids. It's low class, looks bad and distracts from serious issues. People used the same logic to attack Palin's children as well. It doesn't look good.

Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

Perhaps more so than some others on this board, I have some agreement with your basic argument here.

But you are not comparing apples to apples. Romney mentioned his wife as a counselor on economic issues; it is entirely germane to then question her background as someone who has an economically elite life.

This "attack on Ann Romney" is nothing other than a highly coordinated campaign strategy targeting Romney's poor poll numbers with women.

Why do you play these stupid games? It isn't necessary to get your point across.

417 darthstar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:15:47am

re: #394 Dark_Falcon

What it means is that Friday night I couldn't sleep much, and that lack of sleep meant that the narcolepsy I suffer from late at night hit earlier and harder.

BBL

That's called fatigue and it's normal.

418 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:16:18am

re: #408 The Nightmare of the five Orders of Beggars

Again popping in for a second: "arugula" is an extremely stupid wingnut meme. Someone who uses it should not be surprised if their other analogies are not taken seriously.

I once had an arugula salad at some pretentiously hip cafe, along with something disgusting I ordered which I thought was supposed to be ravioli, but turned out to be spinach and ricotta balls. Anyway all the food at this hipster eatery was overpriced and gag inducing. I'm glad Zedushka did not go with me, I bought him a burger on the way home.

419 jaunte  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:17:38am
420 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:18:13am

re: #418 Learned Mother of Zion

I've been eating arugula salads all my life, including when we were poor. It's just another kind of lettuce, to me, a nice one. Certainly no more exotic than spinach greens.

421 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:18:14am

re: #418 Learned Mother of Zion

I once had an arugula salad at some pretentiously hip cafe, along with something disgusting I ordered which I thought was supposed to be ravioli, but turned out to be spinach and ricotta balls. Anyway all the food at this hipster eatery was overpriced and gag inducing. I'm glad Zedushka did not go with me, I bought him a burger on the way home.

You know you're in the wrong place when the garnish is larger (and more appealing) than the main dish!

422 b_Snark  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:20:01am

re: #421 sattv4u2

You know you're in the wrong place when the garnish is larger (and more appealing) than the main dish!

I hate places that give just a wee sniff of beef and charge $10.00/sniff.

423 darthstar  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:21:02am

re: #420 Obdicut

I've been eating arugula salads all my life, including when we were poor. It's just another kind of lettuce, to me, a nice one. Certainly no more exotic than spinach greens.

Arugula with a little bit of shaved parmesan, drizzle with evoo and squeeze a little lemon over the top. Heaven.

424 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:21:23am

re: #420 Obdicut

I've been eating arugula salads all my life, including when we were poor. It's just another kind of lettuce, to me, a nice one. Certainly no more exotic than spinach greens.

I freakin love arugula. I think it's really, really good.

Ironically, as a gardener, I would be willing to guess that Killgore likes it also.

425 Eventual Carrion  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:23:57am

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Is he the new Bill Ayers/Rev. Wright?

When Bill and the Rev start showing up at family events for the Obama's, then maybe.

426 allegro  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:24:00am

re: #423 darthstar

Arugula with a little bit of shaved parmesan, drizzle with evoo and squeeze a little lemon over the top. Heaven.

Partisan elitist. DFH even. Fie on you.

427 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:24:23am
428 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:25:20am

re: #426 allegro

Partisan elitist. DFH even. Fie on you.

Clearly someone who's out of touch.

429 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:26:06am

A lot of foods have a weird dual existence, as both 'elite' and 'for the peasants'.

Like ramps. Ramps are eaten by foodies in NYC, and by backwoods holler-dwelling yokels in Tennessee.

430 b_Snark  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:27:03am

re: #429 Obdicut

A lot of foods have a weird dual existence, as both 'elite' and 'for the peasants'.

Like ramps. Ramps are eaten by foodies in NYC, and by backwoods holler-dwelling yokels in Tennessee.

And used in moving vans and snowmobile trailers.

431 allegro  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:27:06am

re: #429 Obdicut

A lot of foods have a weird dual existence, as both 'elite' and 'for the peasants'.

Like ramps. Ramps are eaten by foodies in NYC, and by backwoods holler-dwelling yokels in Tennessee.

What's a ramp?

432 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:27:40am

re: #431 allegro

What's a ramp?

It's a wild leek. You can't cultivate them for some reason.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

433 b_Snark  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:27:47am

re: #431 allegro

What's a ramp?

It's a basic machine. D'oh.

434 allegro  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:27:55am

re: #431 allegro

What's a ramp?

...With respect to food. (anticipating the smart-ass rejoinders)

435 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:27:58am

re: #431 allegro

What's a ramp?

An aspiring Tramp!

436 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:28:27am

re: #338 Killgore Trout

Is he the new Bill Ayers/Rev. Wright?

Killgore -

IIRC (apologies if I'm wrong) - a while back it was outrageous outrage day every day here with posts about Reverend Wrignt and Bill Ayers. Were you a part of that? If you were, how do you explain your change in perspective re: outrageous outrages?

437 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:30:24am

re: #429 Obdicut

A lot of foods have a weird dual existence, as both 'elite' and 'for the peasants'.

Like ramps. Ramps are eaten by foodies in NYC, and by backwoods holler-dwelling yokels in Tennessee.

That's hilarious - ramps are a NYC foodie goody?

I lived in rural NC for a while. They are absolutely crazy about ramps. They're fully convinced that they make you sleepy.

438 Talking Point Detective  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:31:38am

re: #429 Obdicut

A lot of foods have a weird dual existence, as both 'elite' and 'for the peasants'.

Like ramps. Ramps are eaten by foodies in NYC, and by backwoods holler-dwelling yokels in Tennessee.

Or how about the rage of "comfort food." Lot's of hip restaurants in Philly that feature mealoaf or mac and cheese on the menu.

439 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:33:36am

re: #427 Learned Mother of Zion

Some dweeb at my blog is clutching pearls and chastising me for using the word "dweeb" because "Name-calling is prohibited in Judaism." WTF?

Why you foul-mouthed so and so.

440 Eventual Carrion  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 9:41:17am

re: #360 Killgore Trout

Why do we keep electing the rich while always complaining about how rich they are? It's pretty absurd.

Because to run for most higher level (state or national) elected office you need high level contacts (you know, those people that really don't hang around with the lower class that cannot cover a $10,000 bet). You need a lot of money (which you can get from those high level contacts). You need the ability to go for a long time without income because you will be campaigning, and having to pay for your insurance coverage, so basically you will have to absorb a negative cash flow. That insurance part is, of course, negated if you had already held a government office that gave you insurance and a pension for life. That is just the beginning, not even counting the entrance fee and assorted fees to get on the ballot and other sundry expenses.

That nice guy Bob from the sanitary company's mobile delivery squad (trash collector) just doesn't have the means.

441 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 12:39:18pm

re: #427 Learned Mother of Zion

Some dweeb at my blog is clutching pearls and chastising me for using the word "dweeb" because "Name-calling is prohibited in Judaism." WTF?

Tell him that it's also prohibited in Judaism to embarrass someone by publically shaming them for calling people dweebs. Then, while his head is exploding...

442 Obdicut  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 1:33:27pm

re: #357 Killgore Trout

IRemember when he outrageously complained about the price of arugula?

Heh. Just noticed this. I assume you actually know the context in which he was speaking, and so are just spreading the disinformation for your own kicks.

Silly.

443 Stephen T.  Sun, Apr 15, 2012 5:29:14pm

re: #3 Obdicut

I'd love to be able to be a stay-at-home dad. Maybe eventually, when my wife has a faculty position.

It's not all good. I'm a stay-at-home dad by circumstance, not choice. The number of people who believe that day-care is bad and someone should always stay home instead but who call me lazy because I don't work and my wife does is incredible. I can count on one hand using no fingers or thumbs the number of folks who say "good for you" the same way the do for the stay-at-home mom's they meet.


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