Khaled Abu Toameh on the West Bank and Gaza

Middle East • Views: 3,162

A must-read presentation by Jerusalem Post journalist Khaled Abu Toameh, at Totten’s place: A Minority Report from the West Bank and Gaza.

There are so many things that are obvious in this part of the world that international leaders, diplomats, all these people in the West who are dealing with the Palestinian issue turn a blind eye to and don’t want to see. Before we go to the Q&A and I take your questions, I want to give you one small example of how people in the West don’t want to understand what’s going on over here.

Before the January 2006 parliamentary election, the PLO people went to Condoleeza Rice and said “You are making a huge mistake by forcing us to go and have a free and democratic election. Our people don’t trust us. We are corrupt and we will lose. Hamas will win. So please let’s not hold an election. This is not the right time.”

“No, don’t worry,” she said. “Let Hamas participate in the election. Hamas will not win. Everything will be okay.”

They asked her how she knew Hamas was not going to win. She said she warned the Palestinians that if they vote for Hamas, she will punish them.

That warning, by the way, gave Hamas ten more points in the election. Hamas took Rice’s statement and made huge banners out of it that said Condoleeza Rice says no to Hamas.

So Rice, knowing that Hamas is a terrorist organization, did not set any preconditions for Hamas’ participation in the election. Even in Israel, by the way, Hamas candidates were openly campaigning in Israel, in Jerusalem. In East Jerusalem, okay, but in Israel. They were campaigning openly. They were saying “reforms, democracy, and by the way we want to destroy Israel.”

What made Rice, after they won the election, say Hamas is a terrorist organization? Before the election they were not a terrorist organization? She bears responsibility for the fact that Hamas is in power. It was a huge mistake. Instead of learning from their mistakes after Hamas came to power, they continued with the same mistakes. And look at the mess we are in now.

Jump to bottom

324 comments
1 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:44:39pm

But Jimmah says we can trust them? Maybe I picked the wrong week to stop drinking?

2 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:45:16pm
3 Racer X  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:45:49pm

Thanks Condi.

/dumbass

4 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:46:23pm
What made Rice, after they won the election, say Hamas is a terrorist organization? Before the election they were not a terrorist organization? She bears responsibility for the fact that Hamas is in power.

And a serious stain it will be on her legacy. Shameful.

5 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:46:24pm

Barak calls for Palestinian tunnel linking Gaza with West Bank

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

What could possibly go wrong?

6 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:47:42pm

re: #3 Racer X

Thanks Condi.

/dumbass

Say this for Condi:

She was better than Albright, and Hillary will be worse. Damning with faint praise, to be sure, but there it is. Always thought she was just sort of out-of-her-depth most of the time. With the other two, no such luck - Albright knew exactly what she was doing, but couldn't tell you why. Hillary knows what she'll do, but WON'T tell you why.

7 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:47:50pm

re: #5 Nevergiveup

Barak calls for Palestinian tunnel linking Gaza with West Bank

/Its about the only thing they are good at.

8 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:48:19pm
9 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:48:51pm

And it's this kind of dumbass thinking that just gives more rise for mistrust of Americans as any sort of helping hand. This idea screwed the Israelis and America as well.

10 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:49:02pm

Elections 2009 / Livni: These elections are about peace

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

A little piece of this, A little piece of that? Hey how did that work out in Anatefka?

11 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:49:08pm

HOW TO MAKE A HAMAS HERO ?


12 pass the moonbaticide  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:50:23pm

Hands up all who believe that George Mitchell will be better than Condi.

/ Anyone at all ?

13 Racer X  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:51:06pm

I'm trying to think of ONE thing Condi got right.

Blank.

14 NYCHardhat  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:51:16pm

I don't know what to think of her now.

15 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:51:42pm

Really excellent.

16 gopninja  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:51:51pm

Wait, how is this not a reflection on George Bush?

17 MJ  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:52:14pm
“No, don’t worry,” she said. “Let Hamas participate in the election. Hamas will not win. Everything will be okay.”

Rice was just terrible, not only as a Secretary of State but also as a National Security adviser.

If Bush's second term was a near disaster, you can look at Rice and know she shares a huge portion of the blame.

18 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:52:19pm

Rice was Bush's worst mistake.

19 mean Gene  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:52:35pm

re: #5 Nevergiveup

Barak calls for Palestinian tunnel linking Gaza with West Bank

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

What could possibly go wrong?

Calls for it?
Just so long as Israel doesn't build it for them.
Just give them permission to build the tunnel then give them each 1/2 of the money.
Whatever they do with it is their own problem.
And of course Israel can defend itself if it is attacked with weapons imported or built with all that money.
I pretty much guarantee that no tunnel will be built under my plan.

20 Guanxi88  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:52:39pm

re: #12 pass the moonbaticide

Hands up all who believe that George Mitchell will be better than Condi.

/ Anyone at all ?

Well, he'll at least be able to excuse his coming down on the wrong side on the basis of his party and ethnicity, so that's something, I guess.

21 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:53:04pm
And to be honest with you, I find it ironic that as an Arab Muslim living in this part of the world that I have to work for a Jewish newspaper or for the international media in order to be able to practice any kind of real journalism. Why? Because we don't have any free media.

Those claiming to support the palestinian cause either don't know, don't care or both. But heaven forbid you try to limit their sense of free media- then you're a fascist. But they would never think to call hamas such a thing. Hypocrites!

22 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:53:15pm

re: #18 opinionated

Rice was Bush's worst mistake.

Not getting rid of her after her incompetence became apparent was the mistake.

23 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:53:40pm

Not to defend Rice, but did the PLO have to go along with her suggestion? Obviously allowing Hamas to participate in an election was insane, and Rice shares a big part of the responsibility here, but let's not ignore the PLO's part in this. I admit that I am relatively new around here and was not nearly as informed back in '06 as I am now after finding LGF, but how, exactly, did she 'force' then to do this?

24 rwmofo  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:53:42pm

Whew. Now we don't need to blame the "Palestinians" after all.

/

25 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:53:48pm

And during the Annapolis conference, when the Paliterrorists refused to accept Israel's right to exist, she went on with the conference.
The right thing to do would have been to say
"The Palestinians will not accept Israel's right to exist. Without that, there can be no peace. Everybody go home; this is a waste of time."

26 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:53:55pm

Today's bit o' bias: New Gaza Exchanges Strain Truce

Palestinian militants on Monday fired two mortar shells from southern Gaza at Israel and Israel carried out an air strike against what the military said were members of the launching squad as they tried to flee in a vehicle, further straining the tenuous two-week-old Gaza truce.

At least one militant was killed and three others were wounded in the strike, according to news reports from Gaza. The mortars directed at Israeli territory fell in an open area, causing no casualties.

The truce faced its most severe test yet Sunday, when Palestinian militants lobbed at least four rockets and a shower of mortars from Gaza into Israeli territory. The Israeli Air Force responded with a nighttime bombing raid on Gaza.

That's the headline and opening paragraphs from the NYT report on Hamas continuing to ignore hudnas, truces, ceasefires or whatever you want to call it.

It's not shaky.

It's not troubled.

It's Hamas engaging in war.

And Israel's restraint is going to get people killed.

27 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:54:16pm

You know, a lot of people on LGF were pretty pissed at people like me and Maine's Michael and a few others for our stance on Condi Rice-High Preistess of the Cult of Palestinianism.

NOW DO YOU GET IT?

28 Gretchen  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:54:45pm

Rice was a fool, but let's remember, the Palis VOTED for Hamas. So let's for once give them a bit of blame too.

29 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:55:13pm

re: #24 rwmofo

I blame the chronic loser jihadi terrorist Palestinians AND their enablers, the Euroweenies, the UN and the United States State Department.

30 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:55:15pm

Everyone can be sued and punished for fucking up due to incompetence and stupidity, except government officials who do the worst and most lasting damage.

31 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:55:32pm

re: #25 Kosh's Shadow

And during the Annapolis conference, when the Paliterrorists refused to accept Israel's right to exist, she went on with the conference.
The right thing to do would have been to say
"The Palestinians will not accept Israel's right to exist. Without that, there can be no peace. Everybody go home; this is a waste of time."

Right to exist? If I remember correctly they refused to walk in the entrance as Israel? Yup I'm sure they want peace?

32 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:55:58pm

re: #23 Ford_Prefect

Not to defend Rice, but did the PLO have to go along with her suggestion? Obviously allowing Hamas to participate in an election was insane, and Rice shares a big part of the responsibility here, but let's not ignore the PLO's part in this. I admit that I am relatively new around here and was not nearly as informed back in '06 as I am now after finding LGF, but how, exactly, did she 'force' then to do this?

Probably by threatening to stop paying jizya. That would put Hamas in power as well. No money for Fatah to pay salaries of terrorists means the terrorists will go work for Hamas.

33 x-wing  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:56:13pm

re: #13 Racer X

I'm trying to think of ONE thing Condi got right.

Blank.

The knee high black boots?

I really thought she was smarter than she actually is. Then again we are talking about the State Dept..

34 MJ  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:56:17pm

re: #22 Creeping Eruption

Not getting rid of her after her incompetence became apparent was the mistake.

What Rice was good at was bureaucratic infighting. She got rid of Donald Rumsfeld and sidelined Dick Cheney. She removed the influence of the Defense Department from helping shape policy regarding the Middle Est and brought it back to the State Department.

Rice was also opposed to the surge.

35 iowavette  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:56:24pm

Condi was between a rock, State, and a hard place, compassionate conservatism. She's a brilliant individual very happy to be out of the limelight. My best to her. Now, I'm eyeing Hillary and waiting for humiliation, hers and the country's. The MSM will dress it up but there will be little doubt as to the new and lower depths we will have sunk.

36 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:56:33pm
My argument is as follows. The fact that Arafat was crooked didn't surprise us Palestinians. We were only surprised by the fact that the international community kept giving him money and refused to hold him accountable when he stole our money. Why didn't they invest something? They didn't want to believe it.

This sort of bullshit fuels their anger. It would fuel mine, and I don't have the fallback of the koran on my side. The west supporting thugs only causes the people the west thinks they're helping to hate us more. It has to stop.

37 dgax65  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:56:50pm

Gee, thanks Condi.
Maybe Israel should try that good, old fashioned approach of defeating your enemies and then dictating the terms of peace to them? I bet that would work.

38 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:56:56pm

re: #31 Nevergiveup

She also said that she really understood the Palestinians because she was a black person in America where there had been racism in the south. What a crock.

39 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:57:01pm

re: #28 Gretchen

Rice was a fool, but let's remember, the Palis VOTED for Hamas. So let's for once give them a bit of blame too.

Well lets not excuse Fatah. They ran TWO, Yes count hem TWO, separate lines in those elections so as to better split the moderate vote?

40 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:57:18pm

re: #22 Creeping Eruption

Not getting rid of her after her incompetence became apparent was the mistake.

Why was she hired in the first place except as affirmative action?

41 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:57:40pm
When I tried to alert my foreign colleagues in 1995, 1996, and 1997, to the fact that there was corruption in the Palestinian Authority, many of them asked me if I was on the payroll of the Jewish Lobby. I wanted to know where was this Jewish Lobby? If there was one maybe they would pay me.

I told them: “This is what I am hearing. The writing is on the wall. Come and listen to what Palestinians are saying.” And they told me they weren't interested in that story. They told me they wanted anti-Israel stories because it made their lives so much easier.

The msm is the enemy.

42 jwb7605  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:57:40pm

re: #27 WriterMom

You know, a lot of people on LGF were pretty pissed at people like me and Maine's Michael and a few others for our stance on Condi Rice-High Preistess of the Cult of Palestinianism.

NOW DO YOU GET IT?

Condi is an excellent example of the Peter Principle.

43 dhg4  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:58:18pm

Apparently the archive for 2006 isn't up yet, but Rice's mistake is attributable to the President who said in a statement that he figured that if Hamas won, it would be restrained by the need it had to govern. I wish I could find the quote.

44 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:58:25pm

re: #28 Gretchen

They "voted" for Hamas? A real democratic vote? Just because you put the word "vote" on it, doesn't mean it's good or democratic. And what is the difference between Hamas and Fatah anyway. Same goals, same tactics. May both of them destroy each other in a fratricidal bloodbath AMEN.

45 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:58:40pm
Let me give you an example. In 1997, 29 Palestinian professors signed a petition demanding Yasser Arafat end the corruption. They found themselves either shot or killed or thrown into jail or they had to run away from the country. And of course this is not a story you would see on CNN. I don't think even the New York Times reported that.

The msm is the enemy.

46 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:59:17pm

re: #38 WriterMom

She also said that she really understood the Palestinians because she was a black person in America where there had been racism in the south. What a crock.

what she call em. The Negroes of the Middle East? That is when I really knew we were in trouble.

47 DeafDog  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:59:20pm

re: #18 opinionated

Rice was Bush's worst mistake.

Scott McClennen was Bush's worst Mistake.

Bush's strategy to the ME (and elsewhere) was to push elections. Hamas's victory in the Pali election was a fly in the aointment, for sure, but I can't fault the strategy. I think free/fair elections are good and I'd like to see more of them.

48 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 12:59:58pm

re: #42 jwb7605

An excellent example of why terrorists should not be funded, armed and rehabilitated into public consumption. And why your State Department sucks and is complicent in the murder of Jews and non-Jewish infidels everywhere.

49 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:00:10pm

I still don't blame Condi. The State Dept implements policies as directed by the President. How effectively those policies are implemented is the responsibility of the Secretary of State but the policies themselves come directly for the president. Bush was very keen on spreading democracy in the Middle East and whether or not Condi also thought it was a good idea is unknown. In this case she was doing her job.

50 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:00:23pm
Well, to us it does make sense. This is how our Arab dictators survive. They constantly blame the miseries of our people on the Jews and the West and the Crusaders and the infidels and the Zionist lobby and the imperialists. They use all these slogans. Arab leaders always need to make sure that their people are busy hating somebody else, preferably the Jews and the Americans. Otherwise their people might rebel, and God forbid they might demand reforms and democracy.

This guy really gets it. This is a great piece. I'm glad Michael is sharing this.

51 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:01:00pm

re: #42 jwb7605

Condi is an excellent example of the Peter Principle.

Rice, like Colin Powell, is an example that Republicans should stick to principle and base hiring and promotion on merit and not try to score points - that they will not be credited with anyway- proving how they too are inclusive.

52 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:02:18pm

re: #45 Sharmuta

The msm is the enemy.

Josef Goebbels would be green with envy the amount of propaganda the FMSM is able to spew daily.

53 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:02:19pm

Everyone should read this whole thing. It's really good.

54 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:02:38pm

re: #47 DeafDog

Scott McClennen was Bush's worst Mistake.

Bush's strategy to the ME (and elsewhere) was to push elections. Hamas's victory in the Pali election was a fly in the aointment, for sure, but I can't fault the strategy. I think free/fair elections are good and I'd like to see more of them.

Rice fucked up much more then the Mideast. See Russia. See N Korea. See the globe.

Better yet, ask John Bolton.

55 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:03:09pm

re: #40 opinionated

Why was she hired in the first place except as affirmative action?

re: #51 opinionated

Rice, like Colin Powell, is an example that Republicans should stick to principle and base hiring and promotion on merit and not try to score points - that they will not be credited with anyway- proving how they too are inclusive.

I get the impression that you think that any Black person in Bush's government was there because of their color and no other reason. Any basis for this other than you disagreeing with how they performed?

56 MJ  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:03:39pm

re: #54 opinionated

Rice fucked up much more then the Mideast. See Russia. See N Korea. See the globe.

Better yet, ask John Bolton.

Right.

For those of you who don't know, Rice was the person who sank John Bolton's nomination to the UN.

57 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:04:00pm

re: #43 dhg4

Yes, this was a Bush blunder.....
Bush Is Conciliatory in Accepting Victory of Hamas

President Bush accepted the stunning election results in the Palestinian territories yesterday with a conciliatory tone, saying the landslide victory of the militant Islamic group Hamas was rejection of the "status quo" and a repudiation of the "old guard" that had failed to provide honest government and services.

"There's something healthy about a system that does that," Bush said at a news conference. He reiterated that he will not work with Hamas, formally known at the Islamic Resistance Movement, as a "partner of peace" until it renounces its goal of destroying Israel and disarms its militias. But he left unsaid what a Hamas-led government will mean for the distribution of U.S. financial assistance and for American involvement in trying to reach a peace deal.
....
The Bush administration has spent nearly $500 million in the past year to bolster the Palestinian Authority and the ruling Fatah party, which was nonetheless crushed by Hamas at the polls. Against the advice of Israeli officials, the administration had pushed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to hold the elections without delay, believing that the voting would strengthen his hand in disarming militia groups. Instead, the plan backfired, and an organization that has claimed credit for dozens of suicide bombings -- some resulting in the deaths of Americans -- is poised to take power.

58 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:04:32pm

US sending badminton team to Teheran in bid to engage Iranian people

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

I just want to cry

59 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:04:56pm
Israel was the only country in the world that sent troops and helicopters and gunships and ambulances to save Muslims from being slaughtered by Muslims, to save the PLO people from being slaughtered by Hamas. Israel took them and dumped them in the West Bank.

And naturally Israel gets no credit for this, but instead they get called genocidal nazis. Maddening.

60 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:04:56pm

re: #56 MJ

Right.

For those of you who don't know, Rice was the person who sank John Bolton's nomination to the UN.

How did she do that?

61 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:05:15pm
62 Kragar  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:05:55pm

Any plan for dealing with terrorists which does not include a judicious amount of high explosives is doomed to failure.

63 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:06:15pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

I still don't blame Condi.

Day to day work is left to the Sec of State.

It was not just the election of Hamas. Rice pressured Israel on arrangements that allowed in the end Hamas to be able take over Gaza.

Annapolis was all Rice's too.

64 DeafDog  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:06:29pm

I find it hard to stomach that folks here at LGF are arguing against elections.

Have you all lost your mind?

So Hamas won that round. And they punished badly (I thought Israel ended too soon, but that's another debate). How else - without elections - was the debate ever going to move forward?

Now, the election strategy is paying dividends in Iraq. Do you think the folks elsewhere in the ME don't see that? Had Bush/Rice not pushed for free elections than the Iraqi success would be seen in a different light.

65 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:06:37pm

re: #56 MJ

Right.

For those of you who don't know, Rice was the person who sank John Bolton's nomination to the UN.

Bush certainly didn't stand up for the man.

66 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:07:22pm

re: #59 Sharmuta

And naturally Israel gets no credit for this, but instead they get called genocidal nazis. Maddening.

Of course. What else would they be called for being the real humanitarians here?
/

67 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:07:27pm

re: #58 Nevergiveup

US sending badminton team to Teheran in bid to engage Iranian people

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

I just want to cry

It "worked" with Communist China, so why not try again what failed once?

68 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:09:08pm

Hillary being sworn in right now. Joe Biden is a goofball. He can't even maintain on stage.

69 Killian Bundy  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:09:36pm

Ooh, they're swearing in Hillary, surrounded by all that's wrong with this country.

/it's amazing the stage doesn't collapse under the weight oh all that [expletive deleted]

70 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:09:42pm

re: #55 Creeping Eruption

I get the impression that you think that any Black person in Bush's government was there because of their color and no other reason. Any basis for this other than you disagreeing with how they performed?

You would be wrong.

My vitriol is directed specifically at Rice and Powell, both faux Republicans who did damage and who both voted for Obama.

71 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:09:46pm

re: #58 Nevergiveup

US sending badminton team to Teheran in bid to engage Iranian people

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

I just want to cry

Hostages.
I think we need to show them an enormous birdie, with a nuclear charge in it.
We can use a B-2 named "Bad Minton Racket"

72 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:10:01pm

re: #68 bellamags

Hillary being sworn in right now. Joe Biden is a goofball. He can't even maintain on stage.

Our enemies are cowering, I'm sure.

/s

73 The Optimist  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:10:14pm

Just an off-topic thought. Israel telephones civilians in target areas that they have 5 minutes to leave to safety before the terrorist Hamas weapon storage buildings are blown up.
Of course, the Israelis make the call and watch where palestinians are running from. Its a highly reliable way to know where the terrorist weapons are stored.
/should someone tell the palis?

74 Kragar  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:10:19pm

re: #68 bellamags

Hillary being sworn in right now. Joe Biden is a goofball. He can't even maintain on stage.

They need to buy him a jester's costume.

75 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:10:52pm

re: #70 opinionated

You would be wrong.

My vitriol is directed specifically at Rice and Powell, both faux Republicans who did damage and who both voted for Obama.

Fair enough. - Didn't know condi voted for the O either

76 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:11:01pm

re: #72 FurryOldGuyJeans

Our enemies are cowering, I'm sure.

/s

look at the body language on stage.

77 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:11:13pm

Virginia Man to Search for Noah's Ark in Turkey

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Personally, I'd search for it in Orlando. The Hotels are better.

78 The Optimist  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:11:37pm

I refuse to capitalize "palestinians" since it is not the specific name of a state, region, or whatever.

79 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:11:42pm

re: #74 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

They need to buy him a jester's costume.

LOL. yellow and green checkerboard and the matching shoes with bells on them.

80 akak  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:11:43pm
US Threatened Document Whistleblower
Reported: 19:49 PM - Feb/02/09
(IsraelNN.com) The woman who blew the whistle on a blunder by the United States consulate in Jerusalem which left potentially sensitive documents in file cabinets she bought at auction said she was threatened with criminal charges of blackmail and theft by American officials if she did not return the papers.
The Jerusalem-area woman known only as Paula notified Fox News in order "to get this story outside of Israel" and make sure the blunder would not happen again. She called Israel National News after the consulate called her and threatened to file criminal charges against her if she did not return the documents immediately. The consulate demanded the documents before Fox or Israel National News broke the story, saying that the official papers "should have been shredded."
"The Israeli police were kind and supportive when they took the documents," Paula concluded. "They assured me that they would tell the Americans to leave me alone. I had done my duty by protecting their documents."


Nice goin Barry & Shrill!

81 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:11:45pm

re: #76 bellamags

look at the body language on stage.

I was too busy trying to keep my lunch down.

82 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:11:49pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

I still don't blame Condi. The State Dept implements policies as directed by the President. How effectively those policies are implemented is the responsibility of the Secretary of State but the policies themselves come directly for the president. Bush was very keen on spreading democracy in the Middle East and whether or not Condi also thought it was a good idea is unknown. In this case she was doing her job.

yes but maybe Bush deferred to her supposed brilliant expertise....who knows

83 DeafDog  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:11:56pm

re: #54 opinionated

Rice fucked up much more then the Mideast. See Russia. See N Korea. See the globe.

Better yet, ask John Bolton.

I say McClennsan was the worst press secretary ever.

84 vagabond trader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:12:04pm

re: #69 Killian Bundy

It's also amazing a thunderbolt doesn't shoot down from the sky .

85 mean Gene  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:12:14pm

re: #73 Venezuela lover

Nah!
Don't tell them.
If Hamas would have really won the war with Israel's IDF/IAF they would be able to force people to run into where weapons are being stored.
This is just more proof that Hamas lost, even in the eyes of the Gazans.

86 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:12:58pm

re: #81 FurryOldGuyJeans

I was too busy trying to keep my lunch down.

Bill's imagining its him.

87 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:12:59pm

I read the whole thing, and am absolutley staggered.

Thanks for posting this, Charles.

88 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:13:02pm

re: #68 bellamags

Hillary being sworn in right now. Joe Biden is a goofball. He can't even maintain on stage.

Well, it is after noon. He has probably already had a few drinks.

89 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:13:02pm

Syria says that it's willing to restart its talks with Israel if Israel engages in comprehensive talks. Oh, I'm sure that's all that Syria wants. Give up the Golan, ensure right of return, and otherwise bend over and lie prostrate before the Islamists, and then Syria might have a peace deal.

Memo to Syria.

You already have peace with Israel and have pretty much had peace with Israel since 1983. You don't attack Israel directly, and Israel doesn't destroy your air force and army. Again.

It's not a perfect situation, but you've done without the Golan, and Israel doesn't have to worry about the Syrians firing rockets down on the Israeli communities in the Galilee. It's a constant reminder that Israel is just a stone's throw from taking Damascus.

No, if Syria wants peace, here's what Israel must demand. No return of the Golan. Normalization of relations, and Syria turns over Hamas and Hizbullah thugs for detention/trial/execution for war crimes, crimes against humanity, and inciting others to engage in genocide.

Everything else is window dressing.

90 MJ  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:13:17pm

She also helped Israel lose the Lebanon War:

Israeli official: Bolton said Rice caved on truce terms to end 2006 Lebanon war

The former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, accused Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice of giving in to French and Lebanese demands over the terms of the cease-fire that halted the 2006 Second Lebanon War, according to a document recently obtained by Haaretz. ...

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

By the way, one of her main Arabist in the State Department is still there-
Nick Burns.

91 Golem Akbar  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:13:22pm

re: #27 WriterMom

You know, a lot of people on LGF were pretty pissed at people like me and Maine's Michael and a few others for our stance on Condi Rice-High Preistess of the Cult of Palestinianism.

NOW DO YOU GET IT?

A lot of Israelis also believed the Pali election was a good thing. Let's face it, a lot of Israelis still do -- although it appears Kadima/Labor will be a minority party following these upcoming elections. [L-rd willing]

92 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:14:00pm

re: #67 FurryOldGuyJeans

It "worked" with Communist China, so why not try again what failed once?

That was ping pong.
At that time, I'd play ping pong, and a friend of mine, just before slamming the ball, wanted to yell something in Chinese. All he could come up with was "moo goo gai pan", so that became what we'd yell.
Hard to play ping pong in a basement with a low ceiling, though. If the ball hits the ceiling, is it still in play?

93 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:14:01pm

re: #86 bellamags

Bill's imagining its him.

Nah, Bill has a porn video running through his head 24/7.

94 Kragar  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:14:11pm

re: #79 bellamags

LOL. yellow and green checkerboard and the matching shoes with bells on them.

the floppy jester's hat with the bells that jingle every time he bobs his head.

95 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:14:36pm

re: #64 DeafDog

What happened in Gaza was not a truly democratically run election. It has as much validity as one run in The People's Republic of China, Cuba, or any other dictatorship.

96 DeafDog  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:14:41pm

re: #56 MJ

Right.

For those of you who don't know, Rice was the person who sank John Bolton's nomination to the UN.

Doubtful. John Bolton gets a lot of ire from many on the left. This, too, was part of the calculus in not pushing for a permanent UN job for him.

97 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:14:42pm

re: #88 Ford_Prefect

Well, it is after noon. He has probably already had a few drinks.

I was thinking the same thing!

98 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:15:22pm

re: #93 Ford_Prefect

Nah, Bill has a porn video running through his head 24/7.

eeeewwww

99 MJ  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:15:57pm

re: #60 Nevergiveup

How did she do that?

She's the source for all the media leaks regarding how "difficult" Bolton was to those under him. She also bad mouthed him to Senators.

100 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:16:12pm

re: #92 Kosh's Shadow

I know it was ping pong.

Trying to play sports with Jihadis and Islamic countries would only really work if it was explosive vests at 3 paces. ;)

101 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:16:41pm

re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

the floppy jester's hat with the bells that jingle every time he bobs his head.

yes, that would be great. we could also throw the Pinocchio thing in as well. every time he lies his nose will grow.

102 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:17:07pm

re: #83 DeafDog

I say McClennsan was the worst press secretary ever.

Bush hired and kept more then his fair share of incompetents.

A bad press sec may do damage to a Presidency- as he did- a bad Sec of State does damage to the United States and our allies that continues well past her tenure.

103 mean Gene  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:17:28pm

Yeah.
We elected a couple of drinkers all right.
I cannot imagine people getting so drunk at the White House that they are climbing up on the White House chairs.
And it is weird to read about one drinking party at the White House after another.

104 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:17:29pm

re: #99 MJ

She's the source for all the media leaks regarding how "difficult" Bolton was to those under him. She also bad mouthed him to Senators.

Just icing on the already baked cake the Dems had. He was not going to have been confirmed no matter what Condi did.

105 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:17:39pm

re: #89 lawhawk

Why does Syria think it can get Israel to the table in the first place?

106 MJ  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:18:23pm

re: #96 DeafDog

Doubtful. John Bolton gets a lot of ire from many on the left. This, too, was part of the calculus in not pushing for a permanent UN job for him.

Sorry DeafDog but you simply are incorrect. Rice was feeding the media all those negative stories about Bolton. Also, read Bolton's book.

107 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:18:42pm

re: #101 bellamags

yes, that would be great. we could also throw the Pinocchio thing in as well. every time he lies his nose will grow.

I am not entirely sure you can call them lies in Joe's case. That would imply that he actually has some control over what comes out of his mouth.

108 DeafDog  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:18:58pm

re: #95 FurryOldGuyJeans

What happened in Gaza was not a truly democratically run election. It has as much validity as one run in The People's Republic of China, Cuba, or any other dictatorship.

I do not doubt that.

What I call exception too, however, is the USA standing against elections. I think we need to promote fair and free elections. Eventually, they will get it right. Until then, they will keep being punished when they act foolishly.

109 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:19:34pm
The Egyptians are hypocrites. They are busy killing African refugees who are trying to get asylum in Israel. They opened fire on an African mother and son who were trying to run away from Sudan and were trying to seek refuge inside Israel. I haven't heard that the Egyptians are destroying tunnels or anything. I haven't heard it.

What a cluster f*ck.

110 Killian Bundy  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:19:41pm

Informality Excess: Obama Replacing 'Hail to the Chief' With Sting's 'Desert Rose'?

Veteran CBS Radio White House correspondent Mark Knoller reports that President Obama is relaxing more than the dress code at the presidential mansion. Pomp is giving way to piano-bar pop:
On Day One of his presidency, everywhere Mr. Obama went they played "Hail to the Chief" for him – but not since. In fact the U.S. Marine Band's duties at the White House over the last 10 days appear to have been dramatically downsized.
Instead of the usual contingent of trumpets, tubas and drums, a single piano player now provides musical interludes before and after the president's appearance.

And the tunes have little connection to the military marching music of John Phillips Souza [sic] that is the usual accompaniment to presidential appearances. These days the pianist's repertoire includes Cole Porter's "Night and Day" and Sting’s "Desert Rose."

"He's not a 'Pomp and Circumstance' kind of guy," says press secretary Robert Gibbs of the new president.

/or maybe he's not a friend of the military

111 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:19:46pm

Rice was against Israel taking out the Syrian nuclear facility.

Israel would be in much better shape today- as would the US- if Israel had ignored her more frequently.

112 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:20:02pm

What amazed me about this was how this Palestinian's view/estimation of the reality matches up so well with all of the things people have been reading here for years and disagreeing with.

113 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:20:10pm

re: #105 godfrey

Why does Syria think it can get Israel to the table in the first place?

All they have to do is whisper "peeeeeeece for the Golan" and moonbats have orgasms.

114 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:20:29pm

re: #107 Ford_Prefect

I am not entirely sure you can call them lies in Joe's case. That would imply that he actually has some control over what comes out of his mouth.

true.

115 capitalist piglet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:20:59pm

re: #70 opinionated

You would be wrong.

My vitriol is directed specifically at Rice and Powell, both faux Republicans who did damage and who both voted for Obama.

She did?

116 dhg4  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:21:15pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Yes, this was a Bush blunder.....
Bush Is Conciliatory in Accepting Victory of Hamas

Yes, but the quote I mentioned was before the victory. This is of course the MSM doing its best Hamas boosting.

117 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:21:28pm

re: #110 Killian Bundy

Obama is just prepping the field for the complete loss of USA stature and identity.

118 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:21:40pm

re: #108 DeafDog

I do not doubt that.

What I call exception too, however, is the USA standing against elections. I think we need to promote fair and free elections. Eventually, they will get it right. Until then, they will keep being punished when they act foolishly.

Therein lies the crux, FREE and FAIR elections. The Iraqi elections required a lot of baby-sitting. The same should have happened with the Gaza elections. All they got was Mr. Carter overlooking the process.

119 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:22:16pm

Absolute proof of how much damage Rice did to the United States.

Although the Administration and most of its players were routinely criticized, Rice was rarely- if ever -criticized by the NY Times and/or Washington Post.

120 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:22:21pm
Iran did not want Hamas to sign the ceasefire. Iran wants to fight to the last Palestinian. And they will do it through Hamas, through Hezbollah. They have their own agenda, these Iranians. Hamas could not have taken control of the Gaza Strip in 2007 had it not been for support from Iran and Syria. They had logistical and financial support, which means weapons. Most of the weapons coming into Gaza are being financed by Iran and facilitated by Syria.

And our president wants to talk to iran. God help us all.

121 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:22:22pm

I must say that I am shocked at all this info about Condi. Never really heard any negative things about her before now.

122 Angel  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:22:39pm

How dare we criticize Condhimmi Rice or Hussein O..how racist.

123 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:22:47pm

re: #117 godfrey

Obama is just prepping the field for the complete loss of USA stature and identity.

Learned the Carter lessons well, this young apprentice has.

124 DeafDog  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:23:05pm

re: #102 opinionated

Bush hired and kept more then his fair share of incompetents.

A bad press sec may do damage to a Presidency- as he did- a bad Sec of State does damage to the United States and our allies that continues well past her tenure.


If the two were equally bad, then I would concede the argument.

McClennan was simply awful. The worst ever. He did damage to the GWB strategies that will take decades to correct.

Condi was not perfect, but she did ok. Regarding the specific issue at hand, I can't fault her - or any SecState - for promoting regularly scheduled elections as the best way to select a people's leadership.

125 opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:23:16pm

re: #115 capitalist piglet

She did?

Read the praise she heaped upon him, his candidacy and his election.

126 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:23:16pm

it's human nature to complicate a simple problem...few people have any say in Israels problems...just give Gaza one more lump of money and send them home (someone elses idea), support Israel implicitly, tell the UN we will pay 1 1/160th of the cost of running the UN, and stiff them on every HR violation votes put up...the problem will take car of itself....simple....seething is human nature as well...so be it

127 jwb7605  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:23:50pm

re: #121 bellamags

I must say that I am shocked at all this info about Condi. Never really heard any negative things about her before now.

You must have consciously ignored the election.
Powell actually endorsed O, and Condi had "good things to say about him".

128 capitalist piglet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:23:59pm

re: #125 opinionated

Read the praise she heaped upon him, his candidacy and his election.

I knew she had made some statements that kind of raised my eyebrows, but I didn't know there was confirmation she had voted for him.

129 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:24:08pm

Report: Team Obama Has Been Talking To Iran And Syria For Months

[Link: ace.mu.nu...]

Last few months, eh? I seem to recall Obama being sworn in less than two weeks ago. So much for one President at a time.

I guess we can add the Logan Act to the Internal Revenue Act to the list of laws Team Obama just doesn't care much about.

130 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:24:16pm

re: #127 jwb7605

You must have consciously ignored the election.
Powell actually endorsed O, and Condi had "good things to say about him".

yep

131 J.S.  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:24:31pm

Maybe Rice and others were too willing to listen to people such as Amos Oz -- who wrote a book, published in 2006 (prior to the HAMAS election victory), titled: "How to cure a Fanatic." yeah, the "fanatic", of course, turns out to be none other than Oz himself...(and everyone can keep hoping he'll eventually apply that "cure" to himself and "wise up"...)...anyway, the last few pages which express all the optimism about the "pacifist" Palis, and how they'll all en masse reject HAMAS, and vote in the moderates, is really, really priceless (that's in understanding the mind-set of the die-hard pacifist)...(the die-hard pacifists are as dangerous as the die-hard terrorists, imo).

132 debutaunt  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:24:32pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

I still don't blame Condi. The State Dept implements policies as directed by the President. How effectively those policies are implemented is the responsibility of the Secretary of State but the policies themselves come directly for the president. Bush was very keen on spreading democracy in the Middle East and whether or not Condi also thought it was a good idea is unknown. In this case she was doing her job.

I think she was hired for her expertise as an expert in Russian affairs. It turned out that Russia was mostly on the sidelines after 2001.

133 Salamantis  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:24:35pm

Khaled Abu Toameh is conclusive proof that Muslims can be objective, insightful, understanding, sophisticated, penetrating and taqqiya-free journalists.

We could really use, in fact we direly need, a thousand more like him.

134 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:24:52pm

re: #127 jwb7605

You must have consciously ignored the election.
Powell actually endorsed O, and Condi had "good things to say about him".

And yet their support had nothing to do about race.

/s

135 capitalist piglet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:25:18pm

re: #120 Sharmuta

And our president wants to talk to iran. God help us all.

It's Roll Over and Urinate Diplomacy™. It's all the rage right now.

136 vagabond trader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:25:18pm

It always seemed to me that W and Condi got squishy with the Pals after Arafat checked out and Sharon went into a coma.

137 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:25:29pm

re: #120 Sharmuta

And our president wants to talk to iran. God help us all.

yupner...go IDF!

138 monkeytime  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:25:37pm

Just walked by the TV in the waiting room to see Hillary sworn in as SOS.

139 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:26:13pm

re: #125 opinionated

Read the praise she heaped upon him, his candidacy and his election.

She was just following the lead of McCain. :%P%

140 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:26:42pm

I'm just surprised at the willingness of some Arans to be puppets for Persians.

But then I guess Jew hate trumps all.

141 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:26:57pm

re: #127 jwb7605

You must have consciously ignored the election.
Powell actually endorsed O, and Condi had "good things to say about him".

I new Powell was a RINO, after what he said to Bush regarding the war, but I really never heard anything bad about Condi. I do remember the horrible way she was treated by the MSM and some cartoonists and various newspapers and the outrage by the Republican party to defend her -

142 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:27:01pm

re: #128 capitalist piglet

I knew she had made some statements that kind of raised my eyebrows, but I didn't know there was confirmation she had voted for him.

Based on her statements about Obama it would seem to be impossible that she didn't.

143 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:27:22pm

re: #140 Sharmuta

But then I guess Jew hate trumps all.

'bout sums it up.

144 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:27:22pm

re: #132 debutaunt

Condi was also a thorough Bushie. She was close to Bush Sr. and got to know Bush Jr. as well.

145 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:27:48pm

re: #140 Sharmuta

I'm just surprised at the willingness of some Arans to be puppets for Persians.

But then I guess Jew hate trumps all.

You mean Arabs? ;)

The Koran trumps all.

146 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:28:30pm

re: #138 monkeytime

Just walked by the TV in the waiting room to see Hillary sworn in as SOS.

Yup and she made some crack about we are all now on "America's" team. I guess when President Bush was in the WH, they were on some other team? But we all already knew that!

147 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:28:36pm

the US and the UN are a huge part of the problem with regard to Gaza....we are making it worse by handcuffing Israel...the UN is criminal and an enemy of Israel...not too many dots really and I like simple solutions

148 DeafDog  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:28:41pm

re: #118 FurryOldGuyJeans

Therein lies the crux, FREE and FAIR elections. The Iraqi elections required a lot of baby-sitting. The same should have happened with the Gaza elections. All they got was Mr. Carter overlooking the process.


The place is a basket case. I posit that they have to go through the shitty to get to the good. If they didn't have the shitty in 2006, then they would have had the shitty in 2007 or 2008. Now that they've seen the shitty, they will try to make it better. With the success growing in Iraq, too, they have an example of what the good looks like.

149 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:28:59pm

re: #145 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yeah. That too.

150 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:29:05pm

re: #144 Kenneth

Condi was also a thorough Bushie. She was close to Bush Sr. and got to know Bush Jr. as well.

Neither known for their stance on Conservatism.

151 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:29:09pm

We will all enter the New Utopia when Samantha Power is on board as an adviser.

152 jwb7605  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:29:44pm
153 capitalist piglet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:30:26pm

re: #151 godfrey

We will all enter the New Utopia when Samantha Power is on board as an adviser.

I think she already is, right? Is this Utopia then? Weird. They told me it would be better than this.

154 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:30:37pm

re: #145 FurryOldGuyJeans

You mean Arabs? ;)

The Koran trumps all.

there you have it...they just posture around trying to find an advantage here or there....they all hate themselves and each other anyway....after a few decades what's the point?

155 Dave the.....  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:30:46pm

We talk about how well the liberals in the US are good a politicizing everything to try to convert people (they show Algore's movies at my workplace for example). And two of my favorite subjects is left wing Protestant churches, and how good the Palestinian-Arabs and Christians are good with PR (launch rockets at Israeli civilians, then hid amongst your own civilians to try to get casualties for PR purposes).

Was visiting the parents recently and went to church with them. Was reading the church's newsletter. Palestinian-Christians brought over all the leaders of this church to the mideast. Took them on a victim tour. Then the bishops came back to the US to talk about how horrible and evil the Israelis are. It's sad and funny at the same time to read what they wrote about the trip. It goes something like this:


"We met Mary. Mary is sad because her father cannot get to work due to the separation barrier. Mary cannot understand why the Israeli's are so mean. She asked us what's it's like in America, where one can travel to visit your sick grandmother without getting searched many times for no reason. We told her that Israel should end the illegal occupation."

156 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:31:01pm

re: #151 godfrey

We will all enter the New Utopia when Samantha Power is on board as an adviser.

That happened on 4 November, 2008. Now comes the bill for the entrance fee.

157 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:31:25pm

The problem isn't Condi, it was her acceptance of the state dept strat that runs all the way back to Dhimmi Carter.

158 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:32:05pm
159 Dave the.....  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:32:17pm

To complete my point, so the anti-Israeli types have gotten every church in this synod to bash Israel.

160 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:32:19pm

re: #153 capitalist piglet

I'm glad she's pro-Armenian. I wonder whether Hillary is.

161 dhg4  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:32:22pm
So Rice, knowing that Hamas is a terrorist organization, did not set any preconditions for Hamas’ participation in the election. Even in Israel, by the way, Hamas candidates were openly campaigning in Israel, in Jerusalem. In East Jerusalem, okay, but in Israel. They were campaigning openly. They were saying “reforms, democracy, and by the way we want to destroy Israel.”

It wasn't just Rice, here's the Boston Globe:

Banners draped the walls calling for ''Change and Reform." Candidates pumped the hands of priests in cassocks and schoolteachers in gray tweed. A union leader stepped to the microphone to deliver an uplifting, if innocuous, message: ''We will all work together to serve the country!"

Party organizers handed out sweet squares of baklava to congratulate the Hamas-backed candidates who had just won 13 of 15 seats on the city council of Nablus, the West Bank's largest city, as a new slate of candidates launched a campaign for Palestinian legislative elections scheduled for Jan. 25.

For the first time, Hamas is plunging wholeheartedly into the electoral battleground, a decision that has thrown Palestinian and Israeli politics into confusion as both sides wonder whether joining an elected Palestinian government will moderate Hamas, or whether Hamas will radicalize the government.

No one is sure whether Hamas's political campaign is a Trojan horse to push Palestinian society closer to Islamic rule and return it to all-out war with Israel, or a sign that the increasingly influential group is becoming more pragmatic.

This is typical of the MSM at the time, pretending that Hamas didn't mean what it said it meant. There was no "confusion." Clarity is not something that Hamas lacks. And I could find maybe one regular MSM site that acknowledged that Hamas's popularity stemmed as much from its rejection of Israel as from its "good government" slogans.

And look what I just found:

Visiting Washington a couple of months ago, Abbas convinced President Bush that bringing Hamas into the political process would enable him to moderate them. He also said that after the election he is going to ask parliament to enact new legislation outlawing militias and enforcing his "one law, one gun" policy. It's very hard to see him doing so now, with the "many guns" party in the majority.

So Fatah wanted Hamas. I had forgotten that.

162 Silhouette  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:32:34pm

re: #146 Nevergiveup

Yup and she made some crack about we are all now on "America's" team. I guess when President Bush was in the WH, they were on some other team? But we all already knew that!

I've always said that they didn't really love America, which is of course a set of ideas about liberty, but when they said they loved America, they meant they loved the real estate it was sitting upon and thought it would be a great place to build their socialist utopia one day.

Sadly, it now seems as if they have the deed and are measuring the windows for new drapes.

163 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:32:45pm

I do like his end assessment : Maybe we need to just separate, and to wait.

164 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:33:01pm

re: #157 Thanos

The problem isn't Condi, it was her acceptance of the state dept strat that runs all the way back to Dhimmi Carter.

it's all failed and meanwhile people die and there is no brokered resolution...fuck that....go IDF!

165 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:33:11pm

re: #90 MJ

Israel did not "loose" the Hezbollah rocket war. While Israel did not make all her objectives, she did succeed in teaching Hezbollah to behave, which they have done. Did you notice Hezbollah sat on their hands during the Gaza war last month? That was no accident. Also, Hezbollah also lost significant standing in Lebanon. Where the situation has sipped, is in the subsequent diplomatic front, where Israel has little influence. The UN was allowed to undue some of the Israeli success.

166 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:33:28pm

re: #152 jwb7605

re: #142 Opinionated

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07 /condi-rice-obam.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/05/rice-cong ratulates-obama_n_141414.html

First two Google links for the phrase "Condoleeza Rice Barack Obama"

It was a race race for her (and Powell) big f*cking surprise.

167 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:34:14pm

re: #152 jwb7605

WASHINGTON -- An emotional Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice reveled Wednesday in Barack Obama's election, calling it an "extraordinary step forward" for the nation.

Anyone else doubt is she voted for Obama?

168 capitalist piglet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:34:56pm

re: #152 jwb7605

re: #142 Opinionated

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/07 /condi-rice-obam.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/05/rice-cong ratulates-obama_n_141414.html

First two Google links for the phrase "Condoleeza Rice Barack Obama"

One quote from your source:

She never said who she planned to vote for, but had hinted broadly that she would support McCain by repeatedly stressing that she is a Republican.

Has she actually said who she voted for anywhere?

169 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:35:24pm

re: #167 Opinionated

Anyone else doubt is she voted for Obama?

I would be surprised if she hadn't been so worshipful of Our Messiah-King.

170 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:35:31pm

re: #157 Thanos

The problem isn't Condi, it was her acceptance of the state dept strat that runs all the way back to Dhimmi Carter.

BS

It was Rice who believed the barbarian's "struggle" was the same as the American Civil Right struggle.

171 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:36:04pm

re: #167 Opinionated

Anyone else doubt is she voted for Obama?

bedazzled...no surprise....she's black to and highly succeptable to BOs voo doo

172 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:36:37pm

re: #167 Opinionated

More people voted that way than you think. "It was time," is what I hear. "Policy?" Whatever. "Lack of experience?" Racist! Too few people wanted to be the party-pooper who said, "Hang on, it won't be long until we see a really good black candidate." Nope. Instant gratification. Now we're stuck.

173 MJ  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:36:43pm

Why was my post deleted? It was State Department notification. There's no copyright on those.

174 akak  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:36:48pm

re: #170 Opinionated

BS

It was Rice who believed the barbarian's "struggle" was the same as the American Civil Right struggle.


the oppressed Pali's if I recall

175 Van Helsing  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:37:05pm
So Rice, knowing that Hamas is a terrorist organization, did not set any preconditions for Hamas’ participation in the election. Even in Israel, by the way, Hamas candidates were openly campaigning in Israel, in Jerusalem. In East Jerusalem, okay, but in Israel. They were campaigning openly. They were saying “reforms, democracy, and by the way we want to destroy Israel.”

And the same could be said of any of the commie rat bastards that want to destroy the uniqueness that is America.

Destroy from within is what are doing.

176 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:37:20pm

re: #168 capitalist piglet

Has she actually said who she voted for anywhere?

Well we still have the secret ballot here in America. At least for the time being?

177 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:37:23pm

re: #163 Thanos

Exactly. There is no 'solution' to this problems. Americans tend to think of all problems as having a solution. With the Arab-Israeli conflict, which is really the jihad-kufar problem in a microcosm, the solution is NO SOLUTION. Just separate, stay the hell out of each other's lives, and don't expect combined hora dancing evenings in Ramallah. NOT EVER.

178 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:37:31pm

re: #172 godfrey

More people voted that way than you think. "It was time," is what I hear. "Policy?" Whatever. "Lack of experience?" Racist! Too few people wanted to be the party-pooper who said, "Hang on, it won't be long until we see a really good black candidate." Nope. Instant gratification. Now we're stuck.

Colin Powell

179 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:37:58pm

Israel is a free country that abides by the rule of law. By contrast, if a writer were to go to Gaza or Iran, for instance, and start writing bad words, he might wind up on the news, dead. Israel allows Christians and Arab Muslims to worship freely, while Hamas wants to see us all at the bottom of the sea. Hamas, supported by Iran, is clear about their goals: they want to wipe out Israel completely, utterly, with finality. But it’s not just Israel that Hamas wants to kill; they want to kill all Jews everywhere. Complete genocide.

And when Iran has the capacity to launch rockets over to Europe or the United States, one can count on it happening. If they can manage to hatch nuclear weapons, we could see Israeli cities annihilated, leaving Israelis with little choice other than to respond with nuclear weapons, which could leave millions dead. If Iran gets nuclear weapons, Iraq will want them, as will other nations who are threatened by Iran. I’ve lived in Europe for about six years, and it is easy to imagine Europe being engulfed in a massive religious and race war. America is relatively sedate on the racial front, but Europe could explode if a serious terrorism wave were to sweep through.

It is simply astounding that many foreign governments do not see this for what it is. Good Muslims are murdered by Muslim extremists in probably dozens of countries, yet certain European governments insist that there is some sort of moral equivalence between Hamas and the democracy called Israel.


[Link: hotair.com...]

180 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:38:14pm

re: #178 albusteve

And I disagree with Powell on plenty of things, but there's no question he would've at least passed the CinC test.

181 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:38:23pm

re: #173 MJ

Charles has a policy of not posting addresses, phone numbers, or email addy's regardless of source, if you repost w/o the email addy's it will probably stay up?

182 MJ  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:38:34pm

USA Women's Badminton Team to Visit Iran February 02, 2009
Public Affairs

Office of the Spokesman

Washington, DC


The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs will send a delegation of 12 Americans, including eight female athletes, coaches, and managers representing USA Badminton, to Tehran, Iran, from February 3-9th. The team will compete in the Fajr International Badminton Tournament at the invitation of the Iranian Badminton Federation.

[Link: www.state.gov...]

183 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:38:35pm

re: #155 Dave the.....

... "We met Mary. Mary is sad because her father cannot get to work due to the separation barrier. Mary cannot understand why the Israeli's are so mean. She asked us what's it's like in America, where one can travel to visit your sick grandmother without getting searched many times for no reason. We told her that Israel should end the illegal occupation."

Er, Mary, when your grandmother stops letting people with rockets launch them from her back porch, then maybe you will be able to visit her. Until then, tough shit.

184 jaunte  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:38:35pm

"Khaled Abu Toameh: First of all, Hamas and Fatah are fighting over who is going to receive the international aid."

This suggests an inexpensive way to bring peace.

185 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:38:39pm

re: #165 Kenneth

Israel did lose. Israel lost its deterrence.

186 MJ  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:39:03pm

re: #181 Thanos

Charles has a policy of not posting addresses, phone numbers, or email addy's regardless of source, if you repost w/o the email addy's it will probably stay up?

OK. Done.

187 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:39:47pm

re: #180 godfrey

And I disagree with Powell on plenty of things, but there's no question he would've at least passed the CinC test.

he had my vote in 2000 if he had run...I loved the guy back then....but I had wives like that too...you never know

188 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:39:49pm

re: #184 jaunte

It shows what their real priority is, which is only second to killing Jews.

189 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:40:08pm

re: #182 MJ

USA Women's Badminton Team to Visit Iran February 02, 2009
Public Affairs

Office of the Spokesman

Washington, DC

The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs will send a delegation of 12 Americans, including eight female athletes, coaches, and managers representing USA Badminton, to Tehran, Iran, from February 3-9th. The team will compete in the Fajr International Badminton Tournament at the invitation of the Iranian Badminton Federation.

[Link: www.state.gov...]

That needs to be canceled!

190 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:41:04pm

re: #183 Walter L. Newton

Er, Mary, when your grandmother stops letting people with rockets launch them from her back porch, then maybe you will be able to visit her. Until then, tough shit.

tough titty said the kitty...
remember that one?

191 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:41:04pm

re: #173 MJ

Why was my post deleted? It was State Department notification. There's no copyright on those.

To quote the conditions above:

Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted...

192 capitalist piglet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:41:15pm

re: #189 Dustyvet

That needs to be canceled!

Stupid question alert: What do they wear when they play?

193 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:41:15pm

re: #187 albusteve

he had my vote in 2000 if he had run...I loved the guy back then....but I had wives like that too...you never know

I never like him

194 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:41:23pm

re: #182 MJ

All we are doing is sending hostages and human shields to Iran.

195 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:41:27pm

re: #182 MJ

USA Women's Badminton Team to Visit Iran February 02, 2009
Public Affairs

Office of the Spokesman

Washington, DC


The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs will send a delegation of 12 Americans, including eight female athletes, coaches, and managers representing USA Badminton, to Tehran, Iran, from February 3-9th. The team will compete in the Fajr International Badminton Tournament at the invitation of the Iranian Badminton Federation.

[Link: www.state.gov...]

Didn't we do that with wrestling a few years back? How'd that turn out?

196 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:42:21pm

re: #184 jaunte

"Khaled Abu Toameh: First of all, Hamas and Fatah are fighting over who is going to receive the international aid."

This suggests an inexpensive way to bring peace.

What's disgusting is these bodies are corrupt, and will not actually help their own people. And turning to an international organization will also not help the people who need aid because what organization is there to help them but the corrupt UN?

Seems the only people doing anything to help palestinians are the Israelis.

197 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:42:23pm

re: #190 albusteve

tough titty said the kitty...
remember that one?

Nope, I've never had a pussy say that to me. We are talking cats, yes?

198 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:42:38pm

re: #189 Dustyvet

No, it needs to go on so the proper U.S. agencies can get their "badminton coaches and managers" through the front door of a hostile foreign country

199 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:43:00pm

re: #192 capitalist piglet

Stupid question alert: What do they wear when they play?

snuggies

200 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:43:25pm

re: #192 capitalist piglet

Stupid question alert: What do they wear when they play?

Something like this?


201 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:43:33pm

re: #197 Walter L. Newton

Nope, I've never had a pussy say that to me. We are talking cats, yes?

holy crap Walter. LOL

202 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:43:34pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

What's disgusting is these bodies are corrupt, and will not actually help their own people. And turning to an international organization will also not help the people who need aid because what organization is there to help them but the corrupt UN?

Seems the only people doing anything to help palestinians are the Israelis.

I think Elder has a post up about the shopping the Hamas reps did while in Egypt, they don't look like they'd be any different that Arafish if granted full authority.

203 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:43:40pm

re: #184 jaunte

"Khaled Abu Toameh: First of all, Hamas and Fatah are fighting over who is going to receive the international aid."

This suggests an inexpensive way to bring peace.

I think so, let them fight....who cares about elections or terrorist leadership?...if Hamas/Fatah shoot rockets or smuggle arms punish them severely

204 NYCHardhat  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:43:46pm

re: #138 monkeytime

Just walked by the TV in the waiting room to see Hillary sworn in as SOS.

America has jumped the shark.

205 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:44:29pm

re: #198 Creeping Eruption

Its the old radiation detector in the badminton racket trick.

206 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:45:06pm

re: #165 Kenneth

Israel did not "loose" the Hezbollah rocket war

But did it "lose" that war?

/What's up with that persistent "lose"/"loose" typo (or "thinko"), anyway...
I see it all the time. It requires study of some sort.

207 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:45:11pm

re: #205 the1sgjohns

Its the old radiation detector in the badminton racket trick.

LOL. Exactly

208 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:45:23pm

re: #205 the1sgjohns

Its the old radiation detector in the badminton racket trick.

We had to do something after they caught all the robot infiltrator squirrells.

209 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:45:25pm

re: #196 Sharmuta

The EU Commission used to give aid with utterly insane accountability requirements like "basic record keeping." As far as I know, they've simply abandoned them. It's just a fuel line of cash, spraying all over the place. The Arafish and his Arawife made off with millions.

210 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:46:16pm

re: #206 Occasional Reader

But did it "lose" that war?

/What's up with that persistent "lose"/"loose" typo (or "thinko"), anyway...
I see it all the time. It requires study of some sort.

You want accuracy and competence from public schooling?!? ;)

211 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:46:25pm

re: #202 Thanos

I think Elder has a post up about the shopping the Hamas reps did while in Egypt, they don't look like they'd be any different that Arafish if granted full authority.

I doubt they'd be any different. Their main source of funding needs to be dealt with, and that means Iran. Iran's the one pulling strings. I wonder how well hamas, hizbullah and syria would do without them.

212 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:46:26pm

After meeting Sarkozy, Palestinian president tells reporters situation in Gaza 'remains fragile'

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

Hey Bub, if them rockets were coming towards your bedroom, I don't think "Fragile" is the word you would be using?

213 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:46:27pm

OT: Muslims Slaughter Muslims in Gaza, World Yawns.

REPRISALS!

Not murder or terror!

214 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:46:29pm

re: #204 NYCHardhat

America has jumped the shark.

Frankly, to my mind, given the Parade of Horribles of the Obama Administration, Hillary as SoS is comparatively a bright spot. (Note that I said "comparatively".)

215 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:46:56pm

re: #212 Nevergiveup

His balls are fragile.

216 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:46:56pm

re: #201 bellamags

holy crap Walter. LOL

Thank goodness you have a sense of humor, because I need some humorous slack today. My ranting this morning on other threads will either get me elected for something or arrested.

217 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:47:25pm

re: #214 Occasional Reader

Frankly, to my mind, given the Parade of Horribles of the Obama Administration, Hillary as SoS is comparatively a bright spot. (Note that I said "comparatively".)

A shiny turd in a pile of diarrhea? ;)

218 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:47:50pm

re: #214 Occasional Reader

Did you EVAH, EVAH think you would hear yourself say-well, at least Hilary is SoS? I sure as hell never thought I would.

219 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:48:10pm

re: #208 Thanos

We had to do something after they caught all the robot infiltrator squirrells.

Not sure what you call the 'ball' they use in badminton but, give a few of those away to high ranking people in Iran as "gifts" and have it just listen.

220 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:48:24pm

re: #213 WriterMom

OT: Muslims Slaughter Muslims in Gaza, World Yawns.

REPRISALS!

Not murder or terror!

Get this:

Palestinians in human rights organisations are reluctant to speak publicly about what is a sensitive issue,

It's just not polite to mention Palestinians murdering each other, see. It's a sensitive issue. Kind of like asking someone "how's your divorce going?".

221 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:48:39pm

re: #216 Walter L. Newton

Thank goodness you have a sense of humor, because I need some humorous slack today. My ranting this morning on other threads will either get me elected for something or arrested.

Poor little M being questioned by a cop..."Where were you on the night of?"

M: WHAT?

222 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:48:43pm

re: #214 Occasional Reader

Frankly, to my mind, given the Parade of Horribles of the Obama Administration, Hillary as SoS is comparatively a bright spot. (Note that I said "comparatively".)

I'll be she won't be wearing a hijab, or burka, or bag, or whtchacallit during her visits to the ME.

Maybe she'll take her 'testicle lockbox' with her, just in case.

223 capitalist piglet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:48:59pm

re: #200 Dustyvet

Something like this?

LMAO

224 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:49:00pm

re: #209 godfrey

My point wasn't in pointing out the corruption everywhere- even the palis see it.

My point was the only group of people doing anything to really help is Israelis, who get zero credit for sending water, food, and allowing palis into their hospitals.

225 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:49:01pm

re: #219 the1sgjohns

Not sure what you call the 'ball' they use in badminton but, give a few of those away to high ranking people in Iran as "gifts" and have it just listen.

It's called a bird, really. So, give them the bird.

226 DeafDog  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:49:02pm

re: #214 Occasional Reader

Frankly, to my mind, given the Parade of Horribles of the Obama Administration, Hillary as SoS is comparatively a bright spot. (Note that I said "comparatively".)

Like Fatah is moderate

/

227 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:49:11pm

re: #211 Sharmuta

I doubt they'd be any different. Their main source of funding needs to be dealt with, and that means Iran. Iran's the one pulling strings. I wonder how well hamas, hizbullah and syria would do without them.

make Gaza a bottom less pit for their investment....strike often and hard...

228 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:49:22pm

Elections are still a good idea. However... the response by the US, EU, UN & Israel is very important. The problem isn't that the honest thugs of Hamas won the election over the corrupt thugs of Fatah. They are both terrorist organizations dedicated to destroying Israel. One is not better or worse than the other, they are just different in insignificant details. The problem is that the US & some people in Israel seem to think Fatah is better. The problem is that the UN & the EU decided to fund the Hamas thugs because "they won the election". Those decisions were the real mistakes, not the elections.

Let them have elections. Whomever the Palestinians elect, ask them if they are willing to make true peace with Israel and recognize Israel's right to exist. If yes, then proceed very carefully. If no, fuck 'em. No money, no aid, no support. If they start a war -and that includes any terrorism or rockets or whatever, let the IDF hit them hard and make them stop. The Palestinian people will have an opportunity to consider the wisdom of electing terrorist organizations as their government. In a while the Palestinians may want to hold another election. Repeat the process as necessary.

Unfortunately, the process the UN, EU, US, & the Palestinians are engaged in now, and which is erroneously called the "peace process", in practice really should be called the "terrorism process", because that's what it rewards. If we want a different outcome, we need a different process. One that rewards peace and punishes terrorism.

In fact, this tough love approach to democracy may be the only true "peace process". It is the process by which the Palestinian people will come to learn that peace is better for them than terrorism.

229 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:49:31pm

re: #218 WriterMom

/butting in

I didn't think she'd stoop to it.

230 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:49:35pm

re: #221 Dustyvet

Poor little M being questioned by a cop..."Where were you on the night of?"

M: WHAT?

LOL

231 Van Helsing  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:49:43pm

re: #216 Walter L. Newton

Thank goodness you have a sense of humor, because I need some humorous slack today. My ranting this morning on other threads will either get me elected for something or arrested.

You're not competing with me to be Emperor, are you?

232 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:49:46pm

re: #216 Walter L. Newton

Thank goodness you have a sense of humor, because I need some humorous slack today. My ranting this morning on other threads will either get me elected for something or arrested.

You need some chicken soup with extra marjoram. (wink)

233 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:50:05pm

re: #217 FurryOldGuyJeans

A shiny turd in a pile of diarrhea? ;)

Indeed, she seems more "solid" than a lot of the others...

234 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:50:59pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

I get you, and I agree, I'm just trying to put more bar nuts in the bowl.

235 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:50:59pm
236 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:51:04pm

re: #220 Occasional Reader

It's just not polite to mention Palestinians murdering each other, see. It's a sensitive issue. Kind of like asking someone "how's your divorce going?".

That was good!

237 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:51:20pm

re: #220 Occasional Reader

It's just not polite to mention Palestinians murdering each other, see. It's a sensitive issue. Kind of like asking someone "how's your divorce going?".

something sort of incestuous about it....genocidal in fact...I think attrition is the only solution

238 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:51:28pm

re: #225 Walter L. Newton

It's called a bird, really. So, give them the bird.

....or 'shuttle cock', but that has a vaguely sexual connotation. I mean really, we can't just have those 'cock things' flying around during a family outing can we?

239 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:51:32pm

re: #220 Occasional Reader

It's just not polite to mention Palestinians murdering each other, see. It's a sensitive issue. Kind of like asking someone "how's your divorce going?".

So how's that kneecapping going?

240 OldLineTexan  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:51:54pm

IOW, it's Bush's fault.

And it may well be.

But it's kind of like crying "WOLF!" at this point.

Or a car alarm in a big city.

241 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:52:12pm

re: #110 Killian Bundy

Stars and Stripes forever! /also known as the Disaster March in circus and theater circles

242 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:52:12pm

re: #232 bellamags

You need some chicken soup with extra marjoram. (wink)

Thats just what Phelps thought, now look at what happened.

243 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:52:32pm

re: #155 Dave the.....

We talk about how well the liberals in the US are good a politicizing everything to try to convert people (they show Algore's movies at my workplace for example). And two of my favorite subjects is left wing Protestant churches, and how good the Palestinian-Arabs and Christians are good with PR (launch rockets at Israeli civilians, then hid amongst your own civilians to try to get casualties for PR purposes).

Was visiting the parents recently and went to church with them. Was reading the church's newsletter. Palestinian-Christians brought over all the leaders of this church to the mideast. Took them on a victim tour. Then the bishops came back to the US to talk about how horrible and evil the Israelis are. It's sad and funny at the same time to read what they wrote about the trip. It goes something like this:

"We met Mary. Mary is sad because her father cannot get to work due to the separation barrier. Mary cannot understand why the Israeli's are so mean. She asked us what's it's like in America, where one can travel to visit your sick grandmother without getting searched many times for no reason. We told her that Israel should end the illegal occupation."

The last time we visited Canada, the US border patrol practically tore down our vehicle because my husband declared 2 cartons of cigarettes from the duty-free when he actually bought 3.

244 turn  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:52:47pm

Way late to the game here today but this was the money quote for me:

"Well, to us it does make sense. This is how our Arab dictators survive. They constantly blame the miseries of our people on the Jews and the West and the Crusaders and the infidels and the Zionist lobby and the imperialists. They use all these slogans. Arab leaders always need to make sure that their people are busy hating somebody else, preferably the Jews and the Americans. Otherwise their people might rebel, and God forbid they might demand reforms and democracy."

That's it in a nutshell.

245 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:52:48pm

re: #219 the1sgjohns

Not sure what you call the 'ball' they use in badminton but, give a few of those away to high ranking people in Iran as "gifts" and have it just listen.


shhhhh

246 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:52:51pm

re: #185 WriterMom

But Hezbollah has been deterred. And the recent operation in Gaza greatly reasserted Israel's deterrence. But these so-called "wars" are just battles in one long war that has been running since 1948. Like any battle, the outcome can be mixed. The enemy was wounded but not completely defeated. More battles will come before that.

247 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:52:53pm

re: #238 eschew_obfuscation

....or 'shuttle cock', but that has a vaguely sexual connotation. I mean really, we can't just have those 'cock things' flying around during a family outing can we?

oh yes. that would be fun.

248 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:52:53pm

re: #221 Dustyvet

Poor little M being questioned by a cop..."Where were you on the night of?"

M: WHAT?

Regis Philbin: Alright, Maisey, now for one million dollars: What 18th-century Scottish engineer is credited with inventing the steam engine?

Maisey: Watt?

Regis: That's right! YOU'RE A MILLIONAIRE!

Maisey: What?

249 buzzdroid  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:53:09pm

Why Britain Is Lost

Chapter 3,481

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

DR PIPPA HAYES, a Devon GP, has a conscientious objection. She believes couples should restrict their families to two children - and says she would not help to provide fertility treatment for women who want to have exceptionally large families.

Hayes, who underwent sterilisation after the birth of her second son, despite wanting a daughter, believes that large families place an insupportable burden on the planet’s resources. She states her beliefs on the website of her Exeter-based practice.

This weekend she said she would formally decline to help certain patients.

“If a mother of four came to me and said, ‘Will you refer me for fertility treatment so that I can have a fifth baby’, I would say, ‘Sorry, this is something which is against my beliefs, but I suggest you go and see one of my partners’. I believe I would have a right to be a conscientious objector if it happened.”

She said of her decision to sacrifice the chance of having a daughter: “I always knew two were the limit. That is all we are entitled to.

“I elected to have a female sterilisation a year or so after baby number two. I had no doubt it was a final decision. The question we always ask patients is, ‘What if your family is wiped out?’ but I don’t tend to think like that.

“I wanted a daughter in the first place but my lot was to have boys and I have got two lovely sons. My husband originally thought a nice big family was what he wanted, but he was happy to go along with my beliefs.”

Hayes is a member of the Optimum Population Trust, a campaign group that tells couples to “stop at two”. Membership of the group has doubled in the past 12 months to about 1,000 and it aims to double its membership to 2,000 this year.

This month an international group of scientists and academics is launching a campaign called Global Population Speak Out to publicise the “fundamental link between the size and growth of the human population and environmental degradation”.

250 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:53:10pm

re: #235 buzzsawmonkey

Yeh, and so we must all ask, with hands over our hearts, what we can do to become acceptable in the eyes of Hamas. To restore America's moral stature. To become great again.

251 bellamags  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:53:24pm

re: #242 Creeping Eruption

Thats just what Phelps thought, now look at what happened.

LOL.

252 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:53:25pm

re: #225 Walter L. Newton

It's called a bird, really. So, give them the bird.

it's called a 'shuttlecock'....get's your facts straight or you wont get your lollypop

253 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:53:40pm

re: #213 WriterMom

OT: Muslims Slaughter Muslims in Gaza, World Yawns.

REPRISALS!

Not murder or terror!

I was going to exclaim surpise that it was published in the guardian.

Then I read this:

But there was not yet enough evidence to suggest this was an organised campaign by Hamas, he said......."We don't know who's doing the killing," the worker said. "Some are individuals, some might be from Hamas. It's been happening over several days, all across Gaza. It's not all necessarily Hamas actions against Fatah."

My guess is the mystery killers are Martians. Martian Zionists?

254 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:54:06pm
255 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:54:14pm

re: #249 buzzdroid

Why Britain Is Lost

Chapter 3,481

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

DR PIPPA HAYES, a Devon GP, has a conscientious objection. She believes couples should restrict their families to two children - and says she would not help to provide fertility treatment for women who want to have exceptionally large families.

Hayes, who underwent sterilisation after the birth of her second son, despite wanting a daughter, believes that large families place an insupportable burden on the planet’s resources. She states her beliefs on the website of her Exeter-based practice.

This weekend she said she would formally decline to help certain patients.

“If a mother of four came to me and said, ‘Will you refer me for fertility treatment so that I can have a fifth baby’, I would say, ‘Sorry, this is something which is against my beliefs, but I suggest you go and see one of my partners’. I believe I would have a right to be a conscientious objector if it happened.”

She said of her decision to sacrifice the chance of having a daughter: “I always knew two were the limit. That is all we are entitled to.

“I elected to have a female sterilisation a year or so after baby number two. I had no doubt it was a final decision. The question we always ask patients is, ‘What if your family is wiped out?’ but I don’t tend to think like that.

“I wanted a daughter in the first place but my lot was to have boys and I have got two lovely sons. My husband originally thought a nice big family was what he wanted, but he was happy to go along with my beliefs.”

Hayes is a member of the Optimum Population Trust, a campaign group that tells couples to “stop at two”. Membership of the group has doubled in the past 12 months to about 1,000 and it aims to double its membership to 2,000 this year.

This month an international group of scientists and academics is launching a campaign called Global Population Speak Out to publicise the “fundamental link between the size and growth of the human population and environmental degradation”.

I had 9 kids without receiving any fertility treatment.

256 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:54:33pm

re: #253 Opinionated

My guess is the mystery killers are Martians. Martian Zionists?

intergalactic racist!

257 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:54:35pm

re: #249 buzzdroid

Good Lord. Frightening.

258 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:54:39pm

I never thought I would be thankful she was running the SOS Hillary but given some of the other choices, I would like a tough bitch to settle the kids down in Gaza. Just so long as she doesn't bend over for Islamofacist states. Like most of them are.

259 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:54:43pm

re: #249 buzzdroid

launching a campaign called Global Population Speak Out to publicise the “fundamental link between the size and growth of the human population and environmental degradation”

Needless to say, this is a complete crock of sh*t.

260 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:54:45pm

re: #105 godfrey

Because Israel and Syria have been engaging in backchannel negotiations for some time over dealing with the Golan, the terrorist mess, etc., and note also that Syria hasn't exactly been vocal about Israel's raid on their al-Kibar nuclear facility. They know that Israel knew exactly what was going on there...

261 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:54:57pm

re: #206 Occasional Reader

I absolutely cannot tell which spelling is correct & spell checkers don't help me, ok? even if you tell me the correct spelling today, I will screw it up tomorrow. It's just the way it is.

262 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:54:59pm

re: #253 Opinionated

ZHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS?

263 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:55:47pm

re: #254 buzzsawmonkey

Pardon me while I throw up in my hat.

Demi Moore just pledge to Be The President's Servant and clean up the upchuck produced by his policies.

264 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:55:53pm
265 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:56:03pm

re: #220 Occasional Reader

It's just not polite to mention Palestinians murdering each other, see. It's a sensitive issue. Kind of like asking someone "how's your divorce going?".

ROFLMAO!

All I want to know is where can I get some more popcorn.

266 OldLineTexan  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:56:17pm

re: #258 the1sgjohns

I never thought I would be thankful she was running the SOS Hillary but given some of the other choices, I would like a tough bitch to settle the kids down in Gaza. Just so long as she doesn't bend over for Islamofacist states. Like most of them are.

Great. Now my mind's eye is blind.

267 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:56:55pm

re: #261 Kenneth

I absolutely cannot tell which spelling is correct & spell checkers don't help me, ok? even if you tell me the correct spelling today, I will screw it up tomorrow. It's just the way it is.

To be clear, I wasn't referring to only you. Sorry if that's how it came across.

268 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:57:14pm

re: #264 buzzsawmonkey

The best thing that the US could do at this point with regard to the Arab-Israeli conflict is stay the hell out of it, and concentrate on savaging Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, shoring up the Iraqi regime, and preventing Iran from going nuclear.

pretty simple...therefore it will not happen

269 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:57:19pm

re: #245 Thanos

shhhhh

Achmed forget I said that......mark'tar stealth haze being employed now...you see nothing, you are getting sleepy, you just want to launch some rockets...yes have some more hummus.

270 nyc redneck  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:57:22pm

this really shows how the west just doesn't understand jihadi ideology.
we have people in charge who can't grasp the basics abt. their murderous nature.
condi wanted to equate palis w/ blacks in the south.
she brought her own baggage to the world stage and acted based on her experiences. and we got killers calling the shots.
and now we have O trying to cloud our understanding of the enemy by designating that benign euphemisms should be used in place of hard core truths to describe them.

jihadis don't give a shite abt. democracy except to use it to get power and then discard it.
this failure to see our enemy and know them for what they are will be disastrous.

271 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:57:46pm

re: #264 buzzsawmonkey

Buzz... (placing Obama hand on shoulder and staring into eye) that is entirely too sensible, and so we must dare to do the opposite. Dare to change. Because when it comes to peace, I believe it's better to spread it around. And listen, next time, when I want a doughnut, I'll ask for one.

272 WriterMom  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:57:46pm

re: #220 Occasional Reader

Imagine that? A sensitive topic. Sensitive like-say something about this and we'll throw you off a building sensitive? Or sensitive like-say something about it and you'll be committing suicide with a bullet to the back of your head? That kind of sensitive?

273 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:57:52pm

re: #264 buzzsawmonkey

The best thing that the US could do at this point with regard to the Arab-Israeli conflict is stay the hell out of it, and concentrate on savaging Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, shoring up the Iraqi regime, and preventing Iran from going nuclear.

No no no no no.

Obama is such an accomplished man that surely HE can "solve" these persistent issues! Just think of what a testament it will be to his legacy!

/ The advice that Obama is getting.

274 buzzdroid  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:58:03pm

Why hallo mein Ubersturmgruppenfuhrer von der S.S. Das Reich...
how nice to meet you again..

[Link: gpso.wordpress.com...]

if these fuckers get their way, we all know who they'll exclude from their "population limits".

yeah. its those folks who think old Mo is a "prophet"...

275 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:58:42pm
276 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:58:55pm

re: #249 buzzdroid

The eco-leftist neo-luddite nutcases always preach this kind of crap, and always want others to put their own lives and undermine their standards of living, while they get to live comfortably (see Gore, Al as prime example).

The only difference between those eco-nuts and this one, is that she's practicing what she preaches and isn't having any further kids. It just isn't her place to preach to others what they should do.

The fact is that the wealthier a nation becomes, the more environmentally responsible they are; they actually improve the climate by reducing the need for cutting forests and can return more farmland to prairie and forest - see what's happening in the rain forests today and you'll find that they're actually increasing rain forest acreage because more people are giving up subsistence farming for living in urban areas and a better life.

277 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:59:09pm

"The President's Own" United States Marine Band


278 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:59:15pm

re: #275 buzzsawmonkey

Too specific! Small-minded! We are the Ones we've been waiting for!

279 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:59:49pm

re: #267 Occasional Reader

No offensse taiken. I axept the fakt I cant spel

280 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 1:59:58pm
281 OldLineTexan  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:00:14pm

re: #274 buzzdroid

Why hallo mein Ubersturmgruppenfuhrer von der S.S. Das Reich...
how nice to meet you again..

[Link: gpso.wordpress.com...]

if these fuckers get their way, we all know who they'll exclude from their "population limits".

yeah. its those folks who think old Mo is a "prophet"...

So I have to go home and send three of the kids "back"?

Woo-hoo, I can see ALL kinds of chores getting done this week as they try to curry favor ...

282 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:00:22pm

re: #276 lawhawk

In short, to make themselves feel good, they take it out on the kids. Typical.

283 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:00:48pm

re: #248 Occasional Reader

A man and his dog walked into a talent agent's office.
The man told the agent that his dog could talk.
"OK, let's see"
"When a house is built, what goes on top?"
Roof! Roof!
"What does sandpaper feel like?"
Rough! Rough!
"Who was the greatest baseball player?"
Ruth! Ruth!
"Get out of here! He's not talking; he's just barking"

On the way out, the dog turned to the man and said "DiMaggio?"

284 OldLineTexan  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:00:54pm

re: #275 buzzsawmonkey

The Anointed One and his advisors would far rather spend their energies on a currently-intractable problem than address the problems which actually have achievable solutions.

They are playing at sleight-of-hand.

Kindly watch the hand they asked you to watch.

285 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:00:58pm

re: #261 Kenneth

I absolutely cannot tell which spelling is correct & spell checkers don't help me, ok? even if you tell me the correct spelling today, I will screw it up tomorrow. It's just the way it is.

You're clearly a victim of "spellist" thinking. I think you could have some money coming from the government's Inishiative to Elimitate Spellism and Mathist Bigatry.

286 godfrey  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:01:22pm

re: #280 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, but it's one of those fancy ecologickle communitarian organic buses!

287 Scion9  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:01:35pm

re: #248 Occasional Reader

Swords for 500, Alex.

288 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:01:49pm

re: #275 buzzsawmonkey

The Anointed One and his advisors would far rather spend their energies on a currently-intractable problem than address the problems which actually have achievable solutions.

it's hypnotic...whoever deals the right hand wins all the fame and legacy...the deck is stacked and they refuse to believe it....like an addiction

289 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:01:58pm

re: #265 Kenneth

ROFLMAO!

All I want to know is where can I get some more popcorn.

And yet, ROLFMAOing aside, just ponder for a moment the monumental "doublethink" that went into the journo's writing of that little phrase.

If Israeli Likudniks massacred a bunch of Labour supporters, do you think that journos from The Guardian would engage in any polite coughs about "sensitive issues"?

290 OldLineTexan  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:02:05pm

re: #280 buzzsawmonkey

"We are the ones we've been waiting for" always makes me feel like a bus.

I'd rather be a hammer bus than a nail inconvenient Obama relationship ...


/lacks rhythm

291 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:02:34pm

re: #285 eschew_obfuscation

You're clearly a victim of "spellist" thinking. I think you could have some money coming from the government's Inishiative to Elimitate Spellism and Mathist Bigatry.

Dude, I can do math just fine. Spelling is my problem. People who can't do long division in their heads are the freaks not me, ok? //

292 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:02:42pm

re: #280 buzzsawmonkey

"We are the ones we've been waiting for" always makes me feel like a bus.

or a Nazi

293 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:04:05pm

re: #280 buzzsawmonkey

"We are the ones we've been waiting for" always makes me feel like a bus.

Not surprising. Your ass got huge over the holidays.

294 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:04:53pm

re: #291 Kenneth

Dude, I can do math just fine. Spelling is my problem. People who can't do long division in their heads are the freaks not me, ok? //

That's great news! At least you won't have to fill out that massive application for the Math grant ;~)

295 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:05:07pm

re: #289 Occasional Reader

I thought that was just you making a satirical joke... you mean somebody actually referred to factional Pali fighting as "sensitive issues"? Cripes!

I'm still an innocent! I can still be shocked by the hypocrisy of the media. Thank you, OR, thank you!

296 monkeytime  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:05:21pm

re: #182 MJ

USA Women's Badminton Team to Visit Iran February 02, 2009
Public Affairs

Office of the Spokesman

Washington, DC

The U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs will send a delegation of 12 Americans, including eight female athletes, coaches, and managers representing USA Badminton, to Tehran, Iran, from February 3-9th. The team will compete in the Fajr International Badminton Tournament at the invitation of the Iranian Badminton Federation.

[Link: www.state.gov...]

Wait - I found a picture of the Women's Badminton Team that is to visit Iran. I liked them so much that I used their picture for my Avatar. I think it will be GREAT for them to go!

/if only :>)

297 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:05:31pm

re: #283 Kosh's Shadow

A man and his dog walked into a talent agent's office.
The man told the agent that his dog could talk.
"OK, let's see"
"When a house is built, what goes on top?"
Roof! Roof!
"What does sandpaper feel like?"
Rough! Rough!
"Who was the greatest baseball player?"
Ruth! Ruth!
"Get out of here! He's not talking; he's just barking"

On the way out, the dog turned to the man and said "DiMaggio?"

A lady awoke one morning and discovered her dog was not moving. She called her vet who asked her to bring the dog in. After a brief examination, the vet pronounced the dog dead.

"Are you sure?", the distraught woman asked. "He was a great family pet. Isn't there anything else you can do?"

The vet paused for a moment and said, "There is one more thing we can do." He left the room for a moment and came back carrying a large cage with a cat in it. The vet opened the cage door and the cat walked over to the dog. The cat sniffed the dog from head to toe and walked back to the cage.

"Well, that confirms it." the vet announced. "Your dog is dead."

Satisfied that the vet had done everything he possibly could, the woman sighed, "How much do I owe you?"

"That will be $330." the vet replied.

"I don't believe it!", screamed the woman. "What did you do that cost $330!?

"Well", the vet replied, "it's $30 for the office visit and $300 for the cat scan."

298 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:05:52pm

re: #284 OldLineTexan

They are playing at sleight-of-hand.

Kindly watch the hand they asked you to watch.

lying with his eyes
while his hands are busy working overtime

JLennon

299 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:06:16pm

re: #295 Kenneth

I thought that was just you making a satirical joke... you mean somebody actually referred to factional Pali fighting as "sensitive issues"? Cripes!

Yep. See WriterMom's Guardian link above.

300 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:06:18pm
301 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:06:24pm

re: #293 Occasional Reader

Not surprising. Your ass got huge over the holidays.

ZING!....too funny!

302 OldLineTexan  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:06:46pm

re: #293 Occasional Reader

Not surprising. Your ass got huge over the holidays.

Yo mama so fit, she got bumpers. And they don't jes say "GM"; they say GMC Truck & Coach Division, General Motors Corp., Detroit, Michigan.

303 Kragar  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:06:50pm

re: #266 OldLineTexan

Great. Now my mind's eye is blind.

No no no. All wrong, its supposed to be more like this.

THE GOGGLES! THEY DO NOTHING! *GAK*

304 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:06:52pm

re: #293 Occasional Reader

Not surprising. Your ass got huge over the holidays.

Yeah, Buzz and Jessica Simpson both

305 Soona'  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:07:26pm

re: #258 the1sgjohns

I never thought I would be thankful she was running the SOS Hillary but given some of the other choices, I would like a tough bitch to settle the kids down in Gaza. Just so long as she doesn't bend over for Islamofacist states. Like most of them are.

I would love to see Hillary tell Hamas to go to hell, BUT, she does answere to the zero and her constituants are the same as the rest of the liberal dems. This isn't going to be pretty for Israel.

306 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:07:28pm

re: #274 buzzdroid

Why hallo mein Ubersturmgruppenfuhrer von der S.S. Das Reich...
how nice to meet you again..

[Link: gpso.wordpress.com...]

if these fuckers get their way, we all know who they'll exclude from their "population limits".

yeah. its those folks who think old Mo is a "prophet"...

1. One of the historical roots of the taboo involves understandable concern about some past human rights abuses carried out in the name of “population control.” (There were reports in the mid-1970s, for example, of forced sterilizations in some states in India.)

No shit. What about those reports from China? Funny they don't mention that.

307 sas  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:07:43pm

"I told them: “This is what I am hearing. The writing is on the wall. Come and listen to what Palestinians are saying.” And they told me they weren't interested in that story. They told me they wanted anti-Israel stories because it made their lives so much easier. They told me they didn't want to write anything bad about Palestinians, that Arafat was a man of peace and should be given a chance. I heard this from major American journalists, by the way. Leading American journalists. I don't want to give you their names right now, but I was really frustrated. And angry.""

Sickening. What, exactly, is the value of a free press to the people? I have long forgotten.

308 Silhouette  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:08:26pm

re: #249 buzzdroid

Ultimately, most leftist policies boil down to, "People are icky and the less the better."

309 OldLineTexan  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:09:05pm

"Fuzzy Purple Trident" next thread up.

Great. Now Poseidon is out of the closet.

310 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:10:13pm

re: #300 buzzsawmonkey

I have been wondering--in these pages, as well as in my own head--why there has been no push to re-institute trolley buses in urban centers, as long as we're being all ecological.

Most cities had trolley buses not so long ago; Chicago, where I grew up, had an extensive trolley bus system which--with brilliant timing--it scrapped just in time for Carter's energy crisis.

Trolley buses, of course, are standard buses (i.e., they run on tires, not tracks), which take their power from overhead cables. In other words, the buses themselves are completely non-polluting, and do not have to use expensive and duplicative "hybrid" technology, or cumbersome batteries. The buses are as clean as the energy used to provide the electrical current that runs them.

This technology has a proven decades-long track record. Yet it is completely ignored by our current eco-nuts.

I wonder why.

I believe Denver has an old time trolly with overhead wires running around right downtown and Larimer Sq....then of course NO still has a coupla lines...not
exactly mass transit tho

311 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:10:33pm

re: #309 OldLineTexan

"Fuzzy Purple Trident" next thread up.

Great. Now Poseidon is out of the closet.

Greek dude, hung out at the beach all the time. Go figure.

312 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:11:29pm

re: #309 OldLineTexan

"Fuzzy Purple Trident" next thread up.

Great. Now Poseidon is out of the closet.

Don't start a pun war, or Mandy will jump right in. You know what a nauti-lass she is.

313 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:13:06pm
314 Kenneth  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:13:40pm

re: #299 Occasional Reader

From the link,

Palestinians in human rights organisations are reluctant to speak publicly about what is a sensitive issue, but one respected human rights worker in Gaza said he believed between 40 and 50 people had been killed in reprisal attacks since the start of the war. But there was not yet enough evidence to suggest this was an organised campaign by Hamas, he said

On the other hand, human rights organisations aren't at all shy when it comes to screaming about alleged Israeli abuses, even without a shred of evidence to support it.

315 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:14:39pm

re: #204 NYCHardhat

America has jumped the shark.

Jumped the shark? Hell, we're jumping right into the sharks wide-open jaws.

THIS.IS.NOT.GOOD.

316 albusteve  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:16:07pm

re: #313 buzzsawmonkey

Until the mid-'70s, the entire city of Chicago was covered with an overhead cable network on which the electric buses ran. There may have been a few diesel buses, but they were the minority; most of the public transit for the city was run on an electric cable network.

Again, this was not a bus system that ran on tracks. The buses had tires, and ran just as "normal" buses do--except that their power came from the overhead cables. It's perfectly practical, has a proven safety record, does not require fancy new batteries or hybrid technology--and nobody is even talking about it.

too practical....let's hear no more about it

317 buzzdroid  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:27:32pm

how do you american lizards feel about the bbc calling the NFL and Superbowl "socialist"?

dont believe me? well, they just did - on the ten o clock mainstream news tonight.

318 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:31:32pm
319 guest77  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:37:37pm

Excellent discussion by the Palestinian journalist who reports for the Jerusalem Post. He confirms that Condi Rice was responsible for allowing Hamas to participate and win in the 2006 elections.

Condi, was an ignorant asshat she turned out to be. The only person in either the Bush or Obama administration who really knows what is going on and speaks his mind is John Bolton. That's why he didn't last too long in the UN.

320 Lynn B.  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 2:45:25pm

Interesting. Khaled spoke at the Jewish Federation in Philadelphia today. I just got back from there a little while ago. Part of his talk was this same thing, pretty much verbatim. But some of it was quite different.

For one thing, he mentioned that he had been invited to sit down and talk with Obama, face to face, before the election, and explained a lot of this stuff to him. He said Obama told him he had never heard these things before. I wonder if Obama believed any of it. I wonder if he remembers any of it.

I took notes but now I have to sort out what wasn't already included in Totten's report and I probably won't get to that until tomorrow.

One other thing I do remember off the top of my head is that in response to a direct question "off the record" he said that Israeli did not do what it needed to do in Gaza. He said that Israel always seems to quit when it's on the verge of winning and he drew a comparison to Lebanon in 06. He also said that you can't schedule a war according to the timing of an inauguration in another country.

And he also said that he was very proud to be an Israeli. That under Israeli so-called "apartheid," he, an Arab Muslim, bought a house in a Jewish neighborhood near the Green Line, got a government mortgage and a subsidy for "strengthening Jerusalem."

More later if I can get my act together...

321 Achilles Tang  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 3:32:00pm

When it comes to the Middle East Republican can be even more naive than Democrats. They seem to think that elections mean democracy and that people whose leaders speak English must be civilized.

322 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 3:37:19pm
323 hopperandadropper  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 7:41:30pm

I can't entirely agree with the premise that the US Secretary of State is responsible for Hamas. However, Condi Rice was a freakin' disaster as SOS, and not much better as NSA. Not that Rumsfeld was a whole lot better, but Condi just started slinging UN-speak about five seconds after she took over and never really stopped. Just like he did with Rumsfeld, Bush just stuck with her even though it was obvious that she was a train wreck. Remember how she was crawfishing like crazy about the State of the Union address when Bush said Iraq had sought uranium from Niger? That was absolutely true, but instead of whacking the opposition for distorting the truth she just caved and started backing up at top speed (the definition of crawfishing, by the way). She should go back to academia where she belongs, and stay there.

324 hro001  Mon, Feb 2, 2009 8:27:37pm

re: #53 Sharmuta

Everyone should read this whole thing. It's really good.

Sharmuta, I couldn't agree more! The article is quite long, but very much worth the read. KAT is the "moderate" Muslim voice we've been waiting for (pun only slightly intended!) What the MSM (and unfortunately many Israelis) continue to ignore is:

If I were Israeli I would talk to any Palestinian who wants to talk to me, and I would shoot any Palestinian who shoots at me. I wouldn't ask if they were Hamas. You know what? Believe me, if you listen to Hamas and Fatah in Arabic there isn't much of a difference, especially these days. Fatah fought alongside Hamas in Gaza. Today they said they lost 36 fighters and fired 900 rockets at Israel. Fatah. [emphasis mine -hro]

What's also interesting, albeit equally disheartening (earlier in his speech) KAT said:

The question we should ask ourselves in the wake of this scenario is whether or not there is really a partner on the Palestinian side for any deal, let alone a peace agreement. Any kind of deal. Is there really a partner on the Palestinian side? And the answer is simple. No.

He also alludes to the fact that prior to the implementation of Oslo, the Arabs in the disputed territories were, in fact, better off than they were under Arafat:

[...]I wish the problem with the media was the only problem that we have over there, but as you all know it's a very messy situation. I'm one of those who has been arguing for the past fifteen years that things have been going in the wrong direction in this part of the world. For a few months after signing Oslo we reached the point where many Jews and many Arabs missed the good old days before the peace process began.

Now, what do I mean by that? Oslo was not bad. Oslo was based on the idea of a two-state solution and ending the military occupation in one way or another. So the idea of Oslo was not bad. Separation between Jews and Palestinians who did not want to live together. And as such I supported it. I thought it was a good idea.

But the way Oslo was implemented brought disaster on both Jews and Arabs.


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