GOP Crowd Boos Gay Soldier Serving in Iraq, While Santorum Babbles About Sex
Get down with the sickness
Wingnuts • Views: 38,967
685 comments
1 |
laZardo Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:00:41pm |
I'm sure I'm not the only one here that disagrees with the "reasons" that patriots like Stephen Hill are sent to the wars we send them to, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they serve with as much honor as they can given the pressures of combat (as well as de jure DADT up until Tuesday, de facto I'm not sure about.)
There are really no words for the slander that this so-called political party places upon that honor.
| 2 |
Iwouldprefernotto Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:01:02pm |
Since when is it a special privilege to die for one's country?
| 4 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:01:20pm |
Is it just me, or is this steady stream of GOP debates more than a year before the election, a little weird?
| 5 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:02:12pm |
How are gay servicemen now getting special privileges?
| 6 |
bratwurst Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:02:25pm |
Awful...but do we REALLY expect more from the same type of audience that cheered executions and shouted out in favor of the death of uninsured sick people?
| 7 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:02:40pm |
"Any type of sexual activity has no place in the military"
Thats right you majority of 18-25 year old service members. Keep your mind on fighting for Jesus.
| 8 |
jaunte Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:02:41pm |
re: #4 ggt
It does seem counterproductive for the GOP to let everyone see their best talent on stage.
| 9 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:02:58pm |
The sad part? That there's still roughly 3 months left of debates like these before we even hit the first primary, meaning we haven't even hit rock bottom yet. I thought they couldn't outdo last week's cheering over the suggestion that poor people be allowed to die if they can't afford their medical bills, but then tonight's performance showed me how wrong I was.
The candidates keep invoking St. Reagan of California, and I find that one of his more famous quotes perfectly explains what we've witnessed in these debates so far:
"It's been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first."
| 10 |
Varek Raith Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:03:11pm |
It's all about the culture war.
The GOP base cares about nothing else.
| 11 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:03:57pm |
re: #8 jaunte
It does seem counterproductive for the GOP to let everyone see their best talent on stage.
Are they doing this in an attempt to put and keep their issues in the public mind and in the process control the climate of the election?
| 12 |
The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:04:39pm |
re: #4 ggt
Is it just me, or is this steady stream of GOP debates more than a year before the election, a little weird?
Given their structure and content, I don't think they're actually about the elections yet. The debates act as platforms for talking points. My guess is the stuff we hear candidates spinning now will be treated as facts as we get close to the election...and ultimately what they're hoping is that the [repetition = truth] thing makes it all stick.
| 13 |
okonkolo Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:04:45pm |
Every GOP debate recently has had a really revolting/WTF audience reaction (the others being applauding record Texas executions and dying because of no health care). So maybe the GOP nominee will be printing bumper stickers to "Support Our STRAIGHT Troops"
| 14 |
laZardo Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:05:14pm |
re: #1 laZardo
There are really no words for the slander that this so-called political party places upon that honor.
I'd probably get timed-out if I found those words though.
| 15 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:05:30pm |
Are there any black people in the audience?
| 16 |
jaunte Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:06:16pm |
re: #11 ggt
I don't think it's well thought out. Maybe just the usual symbiosis of the politicians need for publicity and cable news need for content.
| 17 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:06:58pm |
re: #15 ggt
Are there any black people in the audience?
I was only listening to the debate, so as to keep up with the running commentary, but the audience shots I have seen show them all to be white as the driven snow. And looking like a commercial for the AARP.
| 18 |
Kronocide Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:07:36pm |
Gays are receiving 'special rights?'
This is a caricature of insane logic.
| 19 |
The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:09:37pm |
re: #18 BigPapa
Gays are receiving 'special rights?'
This is a caricature of insane logic.
Existing while not submissive to wingnutism is a special right.
| 21 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:10:22pm |
Love to know why the frothy mixture thinks the repeal of DADT gives gay service members free license to bang each other in the barracks...
| 22 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:10:23pm |
re: #4 ggt
Is it just me, or is this steady stream of GOP debates more than a year before the election, a little weird?
I don't ever remember a group quite like this before.
| 23 |
Gus Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:11:09pm |
You know the drill. According to right wing extremists, i.e. the Republican Party, Constitutionally guaranteed freedom and liberty for gays in the military equals "special rights".
| 24 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:11:56pm |
Everyone needs top point these things out to everyone they know at every chance that is appropriate.
| 26 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:12:58pm |
Speaking of that, I found something special on Twitter:
| 27 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:13:05pm |
re: #18 BigPapa
Gays are receiving 'special rights?'
This is a caricature of insane logic.
They are allowed not only to live, but to live with us.
/gah
| 28 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:13:10pm |
re: #23 Gus 802
You know the drill. According to right wing extremists, i.e. the Republican Party, Constitutionally guaranteed freedom and liberty for gays in the military equals "special rights".
Hell, I'm convinced that just being out of the closet these days is a "special right," the way the bigots speak. They seem absolutely convinced that things were so much better back in the days when homosexuality was considered a mental illness, which required one being committed for "treatment."
| 29 |
laZardo Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:13:34pm |
re: #26 ProLifeLiberal
The requested content cannot be loaded.
Please try again later.
| 30 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:13:36pm |
This Stephen Hill looks soldierly enough to me. (And I would know).
Did Sand-scrotum really say that no type of sexual activity has any place in the military? My father was in the Air Force when I was conceived. Would I be prohibited then?
This is not "social experimentation." The rest of society has resolved this and moved on. The military would have done so decades ago if not for the meddling of religious zealots.
| 31 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:14:07pm |
re: #28 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Hell, I'm convinced that just being out of the closet these days is a "special right," the way the bigots speak. They seem absolutely convinced that things were so much better back in the days when homosexuality was considered a mental illness, which required one being committed for "treatment."
White Male Bigots seem to need their closet rent boys.
makes them feel special.
| 32 |
austin_blue Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:14:10pm |
"Special" means that equal protection under the law does not apply to homosexual men and women. Duh! They're different than the rest of us, and therefore, not worthy of Constitutional protection.
| 33 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:14:48pm |
re: #30 Shiplord Kirel
This Stephen Hill looks soldierly enough to me. (And I would know).
Did Sand-scrotum really say that no type of sexual activity has any place in the military? My father was in the Air Force when I was conceived. Would I be prohibited then?
This is not "social experimentation." The rest of society has resolved this and moved on. The military would have done so decades ago if not for the meddling of religious zealots.
White, married, missionary style only.
| 34 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:14:49pm |
| 35 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:15:16pm |
re: #30 Shiplord Kirel
This Stephen Hill looks soldierly enough to me. (And I would know).
Did Sand-scrotum really say that no type of sexual activity has any place in the military? My father was in the Air Force when I was conceived. Would I be prohibited then?
This is not "social experimentation." The rest of society has resolved this and moved on. The military would have done so decades ago if not for the meddling of religious zealots.
It's the last-ditch effort to find a reason why gay soldiers can't serve. "Well--none of 'em should be having sex--and if they have a sexual orientation, they're having sex!!!!"
We do not have a celibate military. We've never aspired to a celibate military.
End of story.
| 36 |
Interesting Times Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:15:27pm |
re: #33 ggt
White, married, missionary style only.
Except in airport bathrooms, where wide stances are a permitted variation.
| 37 |
Lidane Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:15:32pm |
And there you have it, ladies and gents -- your 2012 GOP base.
An active duty military soldier in Iraq gets booed because he's gay. That's real patriotism at work.
| 38 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:15:50pm |
| 39 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:16:01pm |
re: #18 BigPapa
Gays are receiving 'special rights?'
This is a caricature of insane logic.
Not being driven out and their careers ruined because they're sinning = special rights
| 40 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:16:09pm |
re: #32 austin_blue
"Special" means that equal protection under the law does not apply to homosexual men and women. Duh! They're different than the rest of us, and therefore, not worthy of Constitutional protection.
Yeah, what kinda example you think it sets to have the youngins see gays on the street holding hands and kissing? How are we gonna raise them to be good, God-fearin' Christians if the people we tell them are sinners in the eyes of the Lord are being allowed to get away with this kinda shit by the government?! We need to outlaw the normalization of homosexuality!
| 43 |
kwb2003 Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:17:05pm |
Well since the Republicans work for God, you need to be morally pure to stop a bullet for them.
| 44 |
Kronocide Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:17:09pm |
re: #32 austin_blue
"Special" means that equal protection under the law does not apply to homosexual men and women. Duh! They're different than the rest of us, and therefore, not worthy of Constitutional protection.
Those uppity gays trying to be normal. How dare them.
| 45 |
jaunte Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:17:23pm |
Curious Lurker tweeted a Military Times article just now, and the comment thread is crawling with crazies.
771. K Gore Says: ...if the military puts a stamp of approval on that type of perversion, then pedophilia is probably next. It is what it is. This emasculating of out military will bring on serious curses to this country. Natural disasters like never before and more lawlessness. Notice after NY passed gay marriage the earthquake and hurricane hit. This is not coincidence. Abominations have defiled the land. Our president is a sidomite and supports the sodomite agenda...
....
773. Unknown Says:
Bottom line is GOD said it is an abomination. So no matter what obama or any of you say…. It’s wrong and we all know what happens to people who stand against God’s word….. He wiped out a whole town for this sin.
[Link: militarytimes.com...]
| 46 |
Lidane Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:17:52pm |
re: #7 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"Any type of sexual activity has no place in the military"
Because really, what could go wrong in forcing a bunch of well-trained, well armed people into celibacy?
| 47 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:18:16pm |
re: #42 laZardo
I claim no credit. Someone off of the internet radio show I watch every week found it, and put it on their twitter.
| 48 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:18:22pm |
Luckily, the Onion has a detailed report on why Gays should not serve in the military
| 49 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:19:17pm |
re: #45 jaunte
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Greek City-State that used Gays as a fighting force?
| 50 |
The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:19:51pm |
re: #49 ProLifeLiberal
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Greek City-State that used Gays as a fighting force?
The Sacred Band of Thebes
| 51 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:20:00pm |
re: #5 JasonA
How are gay servicemen now getting special privileges?
because heterosexual soldiers will be kicked out of the military if they dare to mention anything that would indicate that they aren't gay
right?
| 52 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:20:00pm |
re: #45 jaunte
Curious Lurker tweeted a Military Times article just now, and the comment thread is crawling with crazies.
| 53 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:20:08pm |
re: #49 ProLifeLiberal
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Greek City-State that used Gays as a fighting force?
The sacred band of Thebes
| 54 |
Interesting Times Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:21:06pm |
re: #45 jaunte
Curious Lurker tweeted a Military Times article just now, and the comment thread is crawling with crazies.
Notice after NY passed gay marriage the earthquake and hurricane hit. This is not coincidence.
O'rly? Then how does this illustrious internet commenter explain the droughts and forest fires in God-fearing Texas? Oh, I get it - it's because Perry doesn't have enough hate for undocumented children 9_9
| 55 |
darthstar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:21:36pm |
Look at the bright side...they might have booed a soldier(gay or not) risking his life in Iraq, but at least they didn't cheer for people dying without health insurance.
| 56 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:21:57pm |
| 58 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:22:57pm |
Also, this happened:
I remember being a kid, and thinking the idea of a major city like Detroit privatizing its police force was just way too ridiculous. Not so much anymore...
| 59 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:23:08pm |
re: #51 engineer dog
because heterosexual soldiers will be kicked out of the military if they dare to mention anything that would indicate that they aren't gay
right?
Apparently, the argument now is that setting up a situation where bigots in the ranks will either have to shut up and serve or leave hurts our military's effectiveness. Better to keep the gays in the closet, because then our fighting men don't have to live in worry that they're being checked out in the showers.
Meanwhile, the rest of our allies are happy to see that we've graduated from the ranks of "special" children and decided to join the 21st century.
| 60 |
jaunte Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:24:06pm |
"Maverick" responds to "J"
J: “We know you are there. Quit fucking screaming it in our faces, waving flags, wearing t-shirts that say “I’m Gay.”, and crying every time someone says something about it. I’m straight, and you wont ever see me waving that in ANY of your faces, wearing a t-shirt that says “I’m straight.”, or crying because you don’t agree. ”
Maverick: ^ When we get equal civil rights, maybe we’ll shut the fuck up. Ever think of that?
| 61 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:24:14pm |
| 62 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:24:27pm |
re: #58 JasonA
Also, this happened:
I remember being a kid, and thinking the idea of a major city like Detroit privatizing its police force was just way too ridiculous. Not so much anymore...
At this rate, we may get that cyborg police officer any day now.
/
| 63 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:25:00pm |
re: #49 ProLifeLiberal
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Greek City-State that used Gays as a fighting force?
sparta was of course the number one military oriented state of its time, and a very very weird place to boot
if anybody qualified for the title of el mas macho culture of the iron age, it was certainly the spartans
its culture essentially expected men to be gay
older men were expected to take younger men under their wing, and sleep with them, engaging in what might delicately be described as a non-penetrating sex practice
if you want to hear some other rather unusual things, try looking up spartan wooing and marriage practices
| 64 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:25:28pm |
re: #49 ProLifeLiberal
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Greek City-State that used Gays as a fighting force?
re: #50 The Ghost of a Flea
The Sacred Band of Thebes
They were an organized unit of homosexuals, but homosexuality between those who fought together in the phalanx was tolerated to a good degree in Greece. Victor Davis Hanson once wrote about it. He made the point that for the most part, such encounters were not seen as romantic (Eros), they were more about the brotherhood of those serving together (Philos). In any case, as he pointed out, it was not something that bothered the Greeks a great deal. And Thermopylae and Platea proved that even a phalanx of ordinary Greek hoplites were the equals of the best soldiers the Persian Empire could muster.
| 65 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:25:42pm |
re: #49 ProLifeLiberal
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Greek City-State that used Gays as a fighting force?
| 66 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:25:59pm |
re: #62 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
At this rate, we may get that cyborg police officer any day now.
/
Somebody call Red Foreman
| 67 |
Mocking Jay Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:26:14pm |
re: #62 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
At this rate, we may get that cyborg police officer any day now.
/
You have no idea how happy I am that someone got that.
| 68 |
laZardo Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:26:38pm |
re: #66 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Somebody call Red Foreman
"You have the right to remain silent."
"And I have the right to plant my foot in your shiny metal ass!"
| 69 |
Gus Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:26:40pm |
re: #59 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Apparently, the argument now is that setting up a situation where bigots in the ranks will either have to shut up and serve or leave hurts our military's effectiveness. Better to keep the gays in the closet, because then our fighting men don't have to live in worry that they're being checked out in the showers.
Meanwhile, the rest of our allies are happy to see that we've graduated from the ranks of "special" children and decided to join the 21st century.
Obviously it will work both ways. Which means gays in the military won't be able to bash heterosexuals either. Neither will any raunchy talk be tolerated. Knowing the military it will be applied equally so those whiners will have the opportunity to report someone who they feel has bashed their own lifestyle -- be it gay or straight. So yeah, I think everyone will have to shut up and serve and leave the BS talk for the time they're on leave.
| 70 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:27:07pm |
re: #59 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Apparently, the argument now is that setting up a situation where bigots in the ranks will either have to shut up and serve or leave hurts our military's effectiveness. Better to keep the gays in the closet, because then our fighting men don't have to live in worry that they're being checked out in the showers.
Meanwhile, the rest of our allies are happy to see that we've graduated from the ranks of "special" children and decided to join the 21st century.
i worked for the army for a couple of years, and i have a lot of trouble imagining the army people i worked with giving a rat's ass as to whether anybody was gay or not
| 71 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:27:16pm |
| 72 |
Gus Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:27:24pm |
re: #62 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
At this rate, we may get that cyborg police officer any day now.
/
Outsourcing American prisons to China.
//
| 73 |
Lidane Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:27:29pm |
re: #62 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
At this rate, we may get that cyborg police officer any day now.
/
Skynet Google's already working on an app for that.
///
| 74 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:27:44pm |
re: #68 laZardo
"You have the right to remain silent."
"And I have the right to plant my foot in your shiny metal ass!"
"Bitches leave."
| 75 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:27:49pm |
re: #51 engineer dog
because heterosexual soldiers will be kicked out of the military if they dare to mention anything that would indicate that they aren't gay
right?
My brother-in-law is married to a woman...but possibly these guys don't see that as an admission that one isn't gay.
| 76 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:28:31pm |
They should just hold their next debate in front of the baboon enclosure at the Cincinatti zoo, if not in it. That way, the screeching and feces-flinging will not embarrass any actual humans who might be in the audience.
| 77 |
darthstar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:29:07pm |
I predicted that booing a gay soldier wasn't going to work well for Republicans...thanks, Charles, for starting the process.
| 78 |
Lidane Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:30:07pm |
re: #76 Shiplord Kirel
They should just hold their next debate in front of the baboon enclosure at the Cincinatti zoo, if not in it. That way, the screeching and feces-flinging will not embarrass any actual humans who might be in the audience.
I didn't come from no monkey! Put the next debate on the White House lawn!
///
| 79 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:31:40pm |
re: #56 ProLifeLiberal
re: #53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I thought so. And apparently, it may have been effective. They broke Sparta.
That was less the Sacred Band and more the tactics pf the Theban commander at Leutra, Epaminondas. Speaking again of Victor Davis Hanson, he has a novel coming out about that very battle:
In this sweeping and deeply imagined historical novel, acclaimed classicist Victor Davis Hanson re-creates the battles of one of the greatest generals of ancient Greece, Epaminondas. At the Battle of Leuktra, his Thebans crushed the fearsome army of Sparta that had enslaved its neighbors for two centuries.
We follow these epic historical events through the eyes of Mêlon, a farmer who has left his fields to serve with Epaminondas-swept up, against his better judgment, in the fever to spread democracy even as he yearns to return to his pastoral hillside.
With a scholar's depth of knowledge and a novelist's vivid imagination, Hanson re-creates the ancient world down to its intimate details-from the weight of a spear in a soldier's hand to the peculiar camaraderie of a slave and master who go into battle side by side. The End of Sparta is a stirring drama and a rich, absorbing reading experience.
| 80 |
darthstar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:32:36pm |
re: #78 Lidane
///
Republicans should be forced to hold their debates before an audience of minorities, homosexuals, and immigrants.
| 81 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:32:47pm |
re: #5 JasonA
How are gay servicemen now getting special privileges?
2nd class citizens/dhimmis are getting special privileges by being regarded as equals by the government! It's not permitted in States Rights America!
| 82 |
palomino Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:32:48pm |
re: #4 ggt
Is it just me, or is this steady stream of GOP debates more than a year before the election, a little weird?
No, Dems did same thing starting in the middle of 2007. So did Repubs for that matter. Hillary and Barack had nearly 20 debates.
The first primaries are only 4(?) months away. And you don't want to pack a lot of debates into Nov. and Dec., just before the primaries begin, because no one will pay attention while they're trying to enjoy the holidays.
| 83 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:32:58pm |
re: #69 Gus 802
Obviously it will work both ways. Which means gays in the military won't be able to bash heterosexuals either. Neither will any raunchy talk be tolerated. Knowing the military it will be applied equally so those whiners will have the opportunity to report someone who they feel has bashed their own lifestyle -- be it gay or straight. So yeah, I think everyone will have to shut up and serve and leave the BS talk for the time they're on leave.
There will be a short fragile period, where people feel out whether they wish to come out of the closet or not, and how open they want to be about it. But the tales of conquest and bullshitting will continue, because it's part of the culture. Clamping down on that would only amplify latent hostility, not damp them.
| 84 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:33:59pm |
re: #69 Gus 802
Obviously it will work both ways. Which means gays in the military won't be able to bash heterosexuals either. Neither will any raunchy talk be tolerated. Knowing the military it will be applied equally so those whiners will have the opportunity to report someone who they feel has bashed their own lifestyle -- be it gay or straight. So yeah, I think everyone will have to shut up and serve and leave the BS talk for the time they're on leave.
Wouldn't it be easier, if two people have a problem with each other, if they just put on the boxing gloves and went into the ring. It seems to me that in a military setting, it would do more good that filing paper complaints and having sensitivity training.
| 85 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:34:10pm |
re: #61 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The Spartans weren't exactly known for their rampant heterosexuality either.
Well, no one was. Classical Greek sexual culture is an interesting thing.
The thing that always cracks me up, and reminds me that there will always be those guys in the far end of the Kinsey scale one way or another, is a bit in Mary Renault's novel about the Peloponnesian War. The narrator comments about Xenophon, who is a friend, that he's realized the poor guy is one of those people who can't form a normal relationship with another man.
| 86 |
Kronocide Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:35:12pm |
J: “We know you are there. Quit fucking screaming it in our faces, waving flags, wearing t-shirts that say “I’m Gay.”, and crying every time someone says something about it. I’m straight, and you wont ever see me waving that in ANY of your faces, wearing a t-shirt that says “I’m straight.”, or crying because you don’t agree. ”
J, you're the one who's crying.
| 87 |
Gus Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:35:28pm |
re: #84 ggt
Wouldn't it be easier, if two people have a problem with each other, if they just put on the boxing gloves and went into the ring. It seems to me that in a military setting, it would do more good that filing paper complaints and having sensitivity training.
Sure. That would be the usual route. But you know if you have two people that can't stand each other they won't go that route.
| 88 |
Gus Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:36:02pm |
@BenariLee Benari
To the GOP audience who boo'ed a Soldier: that gay dude you hate loves his country more than you do. #GIJew #TweetThePress
| 89 |
freetoken Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:36:15pm |
re: #11 ggt
Are they doing this in an attempt to put and keep their issues in the public mind and in the process control the climate of the election?
I suspect there are at least three things going on in parallel:
1) the media need something to cover and they will manufacture events to sell ad time if necessary (and it looks like Google was the buyer today);
2) certain Republicans and their advisors know that name recognition is critical and are trying to get as many 15-seconds-of-fame moments as possible;
3) other political operatives know that the more the empty-heads talk on the record the more ammunition that will be available later for clips and adverts.
I personally think it is a dangerous game for group #3 to play because memes can be so powerfully entrenched into human psyches simply by repetition, and the more nut-job throwbacks like Ron Paul are allowed to cry about their pet issues the more likely that impressionable not-very-bright listeners will latch onto those ideas as some sort of truth.
| 90 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:36:42pm |
re: #70 engineer dog
i worked for the army for a couple of years, and i have a lot of trouble imagining the army people i worked with giving a rat's ass as to whether anybody was gay or not
My folks did 20 a-piece, while all my mothers siblings with the exception of one did at least 4 years. And each has told me the same thing, which is there were folks in the service that they knew were gay or at least highly suspected, but said nothing and did nothing because they didn't flaunt it and they were damned good at their jobs. It's that attitude that I expect will win out in the end.
| 91 |
darthstar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:37:42pm |
for the tweeters, how did Chris Mathews (#chrismathews_hardball) respond to the booing of the gay soldier in real time? Watching Mathews without a filter can be fun.
| 92 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:37:45pm |
re: #63 engineer dog
older men were expected to take younger men under their wing, and sleep with them, engaging in what might delicately be described as a non-penetrating sex practice
One of the theories I've heard about why homosexual relationships became so iconic in Greek culture has to do with the idea that these relationships created a way to bring younger men into extant military units--you came in as Bob's lover, and he was responsible for you, and people would cut you some slack because they respected Bob.
| 93 |
freetoken Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:37:53pm |
re: #15 ggt
Are there any black people in the audience?
I didn't see any in the segments I viewed. There were some that looked Latino, probably Cuban.
| 94 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:38:03pm |
re: #80 darthstar
Republicans should be forced to hold their debates before an audience of minorities, homosexuals, and immigrants.
...and other people who, like the above mentioned, are more representative of normal americans than the people in florida this evening...
| 95 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:39:19pm |
Now to ape '300', Prepare For DERPing!
The 'hilarious' photo of Obama 'moronically' waving
In a group photo with world leaders, Obama's waving hand blocks the face of Mongolia's president — and incites a fresh round of internet ridicule
Whoops. A "hilarious" photo of President Obama — taken during his visit this week to the United Nations — is eliciting chuckles worldwide. In a group shot of world leaders at an Open Government Partnership event, the president "moronically" waves his hand — blocking the face of Mongolian President Tsakhia Elbegdorj. (See the image at right and below). While many people initially suspected that this image was a Photoshop creation, it appears to be the real deal. Naturally, commentators are cracking wise. Here, a sampling:
Presidential privilege
"Don't worry about the dude right behind you, Obama," says Dan Amira at New York. "Just go ahead and be the only person to wave to the camera."Show of hands
"All incompetent leaders who have no clue what you're doing, raise your hand," quips The Jawa Report.Not his finest moment
Let's just call this "Photo Op FAIL Of The Day: International Not-So-Much-Diplomacy Edition," says Doug Mataconis at Outside the Beltway.A true portrait
This "gaffe-tastic photo" confirms what we already knew,says Zombie at Pajamas Media. "Our president is a clueless narcissist."Punk'd?
Maybe, says Kerry Picket at The Washington Times, "the other leaders played a prank and all planned on waving at the same time and then left Mr. Obama waving by himself, while they snickered amongst themselves towards the camera."A plausible explanation
"Maybe someone was throwing a shoe at the guy," suggests Tommy Christopher at Mediaite. "Or maybe someone waved at the president."
The comments are sure to be bad, since it's Yahoo.
| 96 |
Kronocide Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:39:29pm |
That soldier has way more patriotism than those neanderthals, fighting for a country that disapproves of him. Not his sexual orientation, but him personally.
| 98 |
Hal_10000 Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:40:17pm |
This just illustrates how out of touch the GOP field (and parts of the crowd) are. Ending DADT polls a majority or near-majority among conservatives, according to the last poll I saw.
| 99 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:40:46pm |
re: #92 SanFranciscoZionist
One of the theories I've heard about why homosexual relationships became so iconic in Greek culture has to do with the idea that these relationships created a way to bring younger men into extant military units--you came in as Bob's lover, and he was responsible for you, and people would cut you some slack because they respected Bob.
sounds plausible
and, in the end, it wasn't their internal social order that did the spartans in but the opportunity given to other greek states because of what assholes the spartans were in relation to the helots
| 100 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:41:15pm |
re: #88 Gus 802
@BenariLee Benari
To the GOP audience who boo'ed a Soldier: that gay dude you hate loves his country more than you do. #GIJew #TweetThePress
Yep, he's a veteran of a war that not a single member in that audience is likely to say they opposed. He put his life on the line, time and time again, so they could sit on their asses and bitch that allowing gays to serve openly is a "social experiment."
| 101 |
Gus Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:41:21pm |
re: #95 Dark_Falcon
Now to ape '300', Prepare For DERPing!
The 'hilarious' photo of Obama 'moronically' waving
The comments are sure to be bad, since it's Yahoo.
Yeah. Moronic according to that idiot that runs Weasel Zippers. How's the for irony. You know that moron used to be a Lizard?
| 102 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:41:31pm |
re: #80 darthstar
Republicans should be forced to hold their debates before an audience of minorities, homosexuals, and immigrants.
Ugh, who would go to see them. Don't want 'em, don't need 'em.
| 103 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:42:22pm |
re: #102 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Ugh, who would go to see them. Don't want 'em, don't need 'em.
What if it were a Town Hall?
| 104 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:42:43pm |
| 105 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:42:48pm |
re: #93 freetoken
I didn't see any in the segments I viewed. There were some that looked Latino, probably Cuban.
Could have been other Caribbean Latinos as well. Marco Rubio got a number of such folks in Florida to vote Republican last year.
| 106 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:43:50pm |
re: #103 ggt
What if it were a Town Hall?
I don't want our communities used as some kind of punishment for those dumb bigots. Let them go to their own town halls and get yelled at there.
| 107 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:44:04pm |
re: #104 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Probably. Why?
Usually gives me a good indication of who is most interested or is supporting the candidates.
Seems to be a big difference between the GOP and the Democrat audiences.
One looks like Leave it to Beaver and the other looks like real life.
| 108 |
Gus Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:44:22pm |
re: #101 Gus 802
Yeah. Moronic according to that idiot that runs Weasel Zippers. How's the for irony. You know that moron used to be a Lizard?
Oh yeah. And promoted by that homophobe and BDSM -- Folsom Street Fair!!11ty -- voyeur, Zombie. Another former Lizard.
Who cares. GWB used to do stupid shit almost daily.
| 109 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:44:37pm |
re: #105 Dark_Falcon
Could have been other Caribbean Latinos as well. Marco Rubio got a number of such folks in Florida to vote Republican last year.
There are a lot of dumb, stupid bigots in the world.
| 110 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:45:09pm |
re: #107 ggt
Usually gives me a good indication of who is most interested or is supporting the candidates.
Seems to be a big difference between the GOP and the Democrat audiences.
One looks like Leave it to Beaver and the other looks like real life.
I see. Symbolic.
| 111 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:45:32pm |
re: #106 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I don't want our communities used as some kind of punishment for those dumb bigots. Let them go to their own town halls and get yelled at there.
I'd love to see how the candidates would respond to the questions the "rest" of us would ask. Not just minorities.
What about women's health?
What about Contraception?
What about teaching Science in schools?
Do you understand what Herd Compliance means in relation to Vaccines?
etc . . .
| 112 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:46:11pm |
| 113 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:46:26pm |
re: #108 Gus 802
homophobe and BDSM -- Folsom Street Fair!!11ty -- voyeur
Usually the types who scream for special rights for heteros, but think porn "lesbians" are hot. He's not alone, believe me.
| 114 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:46:50pm |
re: #101 Gus 802
Yeah. Moronic according to that idiot that runs Weasel Zippers. How's the for irony. You know that moron used to be a Lizard?
Yep. And here are some 'choice' comments from the article:
lephilosophe about an hour ago
Now back to breaking knee caps the Chicago way (Boeing, Gibson guitars, etc.).
Reply
Robert
7Please sign in to rate!Please sign in to rate!0
Robert about an hour agoThis is really a bad case of timing. There is an old joke about how you get a monkey out of a tree. You wave at it.
Nothing racist here, no siree.
/dripping
| 115 |
The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:47:03pm |
re: #64 Dark_Falcon
re: #50 The Ghost of a Flea
They were an organized unit of homosexuals, but homosexuality between those who fought together in the phalanx was tolerated to a good degree in Greece. Victor Davis Hanson once wrote about it. He made the point that for the most part, such encounters were not seen as romantic (Eros), they were more about the brotherhood of those serving together (Philos). In any case, as he pointed out, it was not something that bothered the Greeks a great deal. And Thermopylae and Platea proved that even a phalanx of ordinary Greek hoplites were the equals of the best soldiers the Persian Empire could muster.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
The phalanx was the best heavy infantry in that part of the world for quite a long time, but the Greeks triumphing versus Persia thing is overhyped and omits details like the Persians allocating only a portion of their forces to any of their campaigns in Greece, and fun stuff like the army at Platea being a third to one-half helots (bonded slaves). Persian bureaucratic materials paint a rather different picture of resource distribution and effort placed into the two invasions.
And VDH's Carnage and Culture take on Greek warfare is a joke, subset to a comedy routine in which "the Western Way of War" has to do with a bunch of values he clumsily smears across Europe regardless of their regional and temporal relevance. It sounds good, but it makes no damn sense, and in spite of his condemnation of racial interpretation his Occidental/Oriental simplifications are just as dishonest and hamhanded.
| 116 |
Gus Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:47:53pm |
re: #114 Dark_Falcon
Yep. And here are some 'choice' comments from the article:
Nothing racist here, no siree.
/dripping
The comments are a sewer.
It's weird reading them. They're all stuck in 2008. They're using the same deranged talking points for the most part.
| 117 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:48:20pm |
re: #112 ggt
Yes and no.
We're not symbols or mere indicators of some abstraction, we're people.
I would not be surprised if there were some Blk Ppl there.
| 118 |
Lidane Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:49:06pm |
re: #80 darthstar
Republicans should be forced to hold their debates before an audience of minorities, homosexuals, and immigrants.
They should be forced to hold their debates with moderators who actually call them on their bullshit instead of letting them just push out sound bites.
| 119 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:49:42pm |
Acchh! I just learned the Cincinatti zoo does not in fact have a baboon enclosure. They'll have to hold the debate in Philadelphia, which does have baboons as well as Phillies and Eagles fans:
| 120 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:50:24pm |
re: #116 Gus 802
The comments are a sewer.
It's weird reading them. They're all stuck in
201908. They're using the same deranged talking points for the most part.
fixed
The Birth of a Nation Generation lives.
| 121 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:50:28pm |
re: #117 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
We're not symbols or mere indicators of some abstraction, we're people.
I would not be surprised if there were some Blk Ppl there.
Yes, and why aren't more people of color voting for the GOP?
I think it is a valid question and one way for me to tell who is supporting who is to look at the audience.
| 122 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:51:11pm |
re: #118 Lidane
They should be forced to hold their debates with moderators who actually call them on their bullshit instead of letting them just push out sound bites.
"Answer the fooking question!"
| 123 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:51:25pm |
re: #118 Lidane
They should be forced to hold their debates with moderators who actually call them on their bullshit instead of letting them just push out sound bites.
That assumes that the moderators are actually there to moderate, instead of simply being paid to toss softballs and provoke fights that can be mined for soundbytes.
| 124 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:52:12pm |
re: #118 Lidane
They should be forced to hold their debates with moderators who actually call them on their bullshit instead of letting them just push out sound bites.
Their own communities should be taking them to task instead of farming them out to us to be the scourges, feh.
| 125 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:53:27pm |
re: #121 ggt
Yes, and why aren't more people of color voting for the GOP?
I think it is a valid question and one way for me to tell who is supporting who is to look at the audience.
That's a good way to lapse into the same kind of tokenism that puts the 1-2 Black People in the audience on display.
Having been one, not just for the cons, I know this. Liberals, progs, etc., are every bit as bad.
| 126 |
Lidane Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:53:44pm |
Oh joy. What are the odds we're going to have another government shutdown?
House GOP Passes Government Funding Bill, With Partisan Budget Cut For Disaster Aid
House Republicans closed ranks just after midnight on Friday morning, and passed legislation to avert a government shutdown at the end of the month. The vote tally was 219-203.
| 127 |
Lidane Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:55:17pm |
re: #123 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
That assumes that the moderators are actually there to moderate, instead of simply being paid to toss softballs and provoke fights that can be mined for soundbytes.
True.
I'll just settle for an audience filled with people fact checking the candidates in real time and holding up this sign as needed.
| 128 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:55:40pm |
re: #125 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
That's a good way to lapse into the same kind of tokenism that puts the 1-2 Black People in the audience on display.
Having been one, not just for the cons, I know this. Liberals, progs, etc., are every bit as bad.
I do the same at with gender. Am I making myself a token?
| 129 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:55:58pm |
i think one unusual and interesting thing about homosexuals as relates to politics is that they are a group that by its nature cuts across all social, ethnic, and economic groups without any possible regard to any of our socially conditioned stereotypes about such groups
i'm not gay, but (among my other adventures in life such as working for the army) i happen to have worked as a cook in the castro back about 1980 in the middle of the blossoming of that phenomenon
it was instructive to observe that persons from all manner of conditions and places gathered together there and bonded together
| 130 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:56:35pm |
Social experimentation? Hmmm I think I saw that same crap excuse flung at Truman when he desergerated the military. Disgraceful that the crowd would boo the soldier like that. And fuck Rick Santorum for trying to say this was about sex. The man just happens to be gay. He should be allowed to be open with who he is in our military. It works for our allies the British, Canadians, Israelis, and others, why can't it work for us? Because a bunch of socon assholes are paranoid about gay people?
| 131 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:58:02pm |
Oh, here we go. From Yemen
AJELive AJELive
BREAKING: State TV reports President Saleh has returned to Yemen amid national turmoil.
Meanwhile, the war in Libya is winding down. Sabha fell in the past 48 hours, and on Sirte, Bani Walid, Ghat, and Fuqaha remain. The last two are very small provincial centers. I give this to the end of October.
| 132 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:59:44pm |
What the fuck with Republicans, they loudly applaud the idea that gays not having to live a lie is some kind of special privilege. They swallow Santorum's (sorry ... no I'm not) bullshit line about going back to a policy where "sex is not an issue." Yeah, sex wasn't an issue for straight people. The intellectual dishonesty displayed by that audience is simply astounding, typical and not the least bit surprising, but still astounding in its sheer magnitude.
| 133 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 9:59:52pm |
re: #126 Lidane
Oh joy. What are the odds we're going to have another government shutdown?
House GOP Passes Government Funding Bill, With Partisan Budget Cut For Disaster Aid
So Boehner's tactic now is to strongarm enough of his own caucus into passing the CR, then close the House down, leaving the Senate the options of either passing the CR or forcing a government shutdown.
I say let it happen. The Senate already passed a clean disaster-relief fund bill and the House shot it down. Reid's under no obligation to play party to Boehner's stunt.
| 134 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:01:45pm |
Did they ask Michele Bachman to produce the lady that said her daughter became mentally retarded because of Gardasil?
| 135 |
Gus Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:02:08pm |
re: #133 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
So Boehner's tactic now is to strongarm enough of his own caucus into passing the CR, then close the House down, leaving the Senate the options of either passing the CR or forcing a government shutdown.
I say let it happen. The Senate already passed a clean disaster-relief fund bill and the House shot it down. Reid's under no obligation to play party to Boehner's stunt.
Talking Points Memo
@TPM Talking Points Memo
And that's how you take care business RT @brianbeutler: Jeb Hensarling says he's headed home. All up to Harry Reid now.
Yep. Taking care of business. The Republican way.
| 136 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:02:36pm |
re: #115 The Ghost of a Flea
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
The phalanx was the best heavy infantry in that part of the world for quite a long time, but the Greeks triumphing versus Persia thing is overhyped and omits details like the Persians allocating only a portion of their forces to any of their campaigns in Greece, and fun stuff like the army at Platea being a third to one-half helots (bonded slaves). Persian bureaucratic materials paint a rather different picture of resource distribution and effort placed into the two invasions.
And VDH's Carnage and Culture take on Greek warfare is a joke, subset to a comedy routine in which "the Western Way of War" has to do with a bunch of values he clumsily smears across Europe regardless of their regional and temporal relevance. It sounds good, but it makes no damn sense, and in spite of his condemnation of racial interpretation his Occidental/Oriental simplifications are just as dishonest and hamhanded.
I don't really agree. The Persians could never muster their full army for one campaign, because much of it was needed for anti-bandit and internal security work. For Platea, are you referring to the Greek army as a whole or just the Spartans (and the helots were more serfs than slaves, though the Spartans were worse than most medieval lords)?
Hanson backs up his case on Greek Warfare in A War Like None Other. He really does know his stuff for ancient Greece.
| 137 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:02:49pm |
re: #132 goddamnedfrank
What the fuck with Republicans, they loudly applaud the idea that gays not having to live a lie is some kind of special privilege. They swallow Santorum's (sorry ... no I'm not) bullshit line about going back to a policy where "sex is not an issue." Yeah, sex wasn't an issue for straight people. The intellectual dishonesty displayed by that audience is simply astounding, typical and not the least bit surprising, but still astounding in its sheer magnitude.
Somehow, I think sex is always an issues for the 18-25 year olds, regardless of gender or sexual preference.
:0
| 138 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:03:01pm |
The thing that amuses me about this is Santorum and the dipshits in the audience are convinced that they are for individual rights. I can think of no greater violation of one's rights than telling a man or woman that their sexual orientation should disqualify them from serving their country. You'd think that conservatives who claim they want a strong military would want the best men and women we could get but noooo it's obvious they care more about being superficial bigots. Stephen Hill is proof that gay men can and do serve this country honorably. Look at 9-11. Two of the biggest heroes of that tragedy happened to be gay but assholes like Santorum are so juvenile that they only think about who they're sexually attracted to as their means of forming their opinion of a person's worth. It's pathetic especially in this day and age.
| 140 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:05:00pm |
re: #132 goddamnedfrank
What the fuck with Republicans, they loudly applaud the idea that gays not having to live a lie is some kind of special privilege. They swallow Santorum's (sorry ... no I'm not) bullshit line about going back to a police where "sex is not an issue." Yeah, sex wasn't an issue for straight people. The intellectual dishonesty displayed by that audience is simply astounding, typical and not the least bit surprising, but still astounding in its sheer magnitude.
I don't know Frank. One thing's for damn sure, it seems to me that the Republican Party instead of moving forward on issues like this is stuck in the dark ages. It amazes me that Barry Goldwater, a man older than all four my grandparents was more forward thinking on gays than Rick Santorum whom is younger than my parents. I by and large feel this is a generational issue but sometimes I don't know considering that some of the biggest homophobes in the Republican Party are younger people.
| 141 |
freetoken Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:05:03pm |
Speaking of all of this social/racial stuff... I've been publicly chastising myself here for being slow in putting up a Page on genetics and ancestry and how racism/racists are creeping in or exploiting results and reports.
Anyway, the big science story of the day:
Australian Aborigine Hair Tells a Story of Human Migration
A lock of hair, collected by a British anthropologist a century ago, has yielded the first genome of an Australian Aborigine, along with insights into the earliest migration from the ancestral human homeland somewhere in northeast Africa.
The Aboriginal genome bolsters earlier genetic evidence showing that once the Aborigines’ ancestors arrived in Australia, some 50,000 years ago, they somehow kept the whole continent to themselves without admitting any outsiders.[...]
The actual science paper is here:
An Aboriginal Australian Genome Reveals Separate Human Dispersals into Asia
There are many things to be said about all of this, but the first is how the popular media slaughters the actual science and put in their own biases and beliefs. The NYT story is not too bad, better than Murdoch's Australian, which in turns isn't as bad as some of the derivative online sites.
Anyway, racism runs deep, real deep, and I don't expect the Tea Partying GOP to be too self-aware or introspective on this subject, since they are in full atavism mode. Still, I think it is important to realize that what we see surfacing in American politics is just that - the surface of what lay beneath and I expect it to get worse.
Even beyond that, though, are people writing (blogs, books, forums) their own spin on this stuff.
| 142 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:05:11pm |
re: #128 ggt
I do the same at with gender. Am I making myself a token?
Two different issues. What you do, and how your image is used as a mere audience participant are two different things.
But I never, EVER, hear anyone of any gender asking if there are any women, of any stripe, in an audience. Tokenism.
| 143 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:05:17pm |
re: #131 ProLifeLiberal
Also, the last roads out of Libya from Sirte were cut off today. If Qaddafi hasn't escaped by now, he's trapped. Same deal with Bani Walid.
| 144 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:05:25pm |
re: #133 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
So Boehner's tactic now is to strongarm enough of his own caucus into passing the CR, then close the House down, leaving the Senate the options of either passing the CR or forcing a government shutdown.
I say let it happen. The Senate already passed a clean disaster-relief fund bill and the House shot it down. Reid's under no obligation to play party to Boehner's stunt.
I've got lots to say about this, but I'm not going to. It's too close when I need to sign off for the night.
| 145 |
Petero1818 Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:05:51pm |
re: #2 Iwouldprefernotto
Since when is it a special privilege to die for one's country?
since you got rid of the draft.
| 146 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:09:48pm |
re: #141 freetoken
Speaking of all of this social/racial stuff... I've been publicly chastising myself here for being slow in putting up a Page on genetics and ancestry and how racism/racists are creeping in or exploiting results and reports.
Steve Sailer, dumb confederate, has had a jump on them for a while.
I expect it to get worse.
It's been far worse than this. And yeah, I expect absolutely no one to stop it from getting worse, expect us, the targets. Nothing's ever inevitable. But some things are predictable.
| 147 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:10:27pm |
re: #136 Dark_Falcon
the helots were more serfs than slaves, though the Spartans were worse than most medieval lords
definitely serfs - the helots lived apart from the spartans in their own families and farms, but were not allowed to leave
the spartans had a coming of age tradition where every year the helots were ceremonially declared to have "revolted", altho of course they had done nothing of the kind, in order for it to be legal for young spartans to prove their mettle by going out and killing them
| 148 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:10:32pm |
re: #142 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Two different issues. What you do, and how your image is used as a mere audience participant are two different things.
But I never, EVER, hear anyone of any gender asking if there are any women, of any stripe, in an audience. Tokenism.
I guess I don't count. I didn't ask on this particular occasion because I knew there were Tea Party Women there.
I do look myself. When I go into an office, I look to see if there are women doing jobs besides answering the phones . . ..
In the early-days of the abortion protests, it seemed the majority were men, so now I look for women there too.
Sorry if you didn't like my question.
| 149 |
freetoken Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:10:56pm |
re: #146 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
As far as the online stuff... it goes far beyond Sailer.
| 150 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:11:02pm |
re: #130 HappyWarrior
Social experimentation? Hmmm I think I saw that same crap excuse flung at Truman when he desergerated the military. Disgraceful that the crowd would boo the soldier like that. And fuck Rick Santorum for trying to say this was about sex. The man just happens to be gay. He should be allowed to be open with who he is in our military. It works for our allies the British, Canadians, Israelis, and others, why can't it work for us? Because a bunch of socon assholes are paranoid about gay people?
It's not that they think it won't work, it's that they are pretty sure it will work, and that scares the hell out of them.
| 151 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:11:45pm |
re: #134 ggt
Did they ask Michele Bachman to produce the lady that said her daughter became mentally retarded because of Gardasil?
I totally think I know what happened there, but we may never know.
| 152 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:13:10pm |
re: #141 freetoken
I saw that.
A long time ago, I watched a show that documented the migration of genes from Afrika around the globe. I remember the Australian Aborigine stating that they should have started in Australia. I think the show tied in the discovery of "Lucy" with the mitochondrial DNA study.
He was adamant about the research being wrong because their creation myths specifically say that life began in Australia.
ha!
| 153 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:13:24pm |
re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist
It's not that they think it won't work, it's that they are pretty sure it will work, and that scares the hell out of them.
True change has that effect on people like Santorum and this audience. I mean to me it's a simple issue. There are plenty of gay men and women such as the man whom asked Santorum this question who would make a much better soldier than I ever would. I wouldn't last long in Iraq and yet Santorum and these jerks think that somehow just because I happen to be straight that I'd make a better soldier than a guy like Hill who just happens to be gay. It's 2011 and these jerks want to set back the clock as far back as possible.
| 154 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:14:29pm |
re: #138 HappyWarrior
The thing that amuses me about this is Santorum and the dipshits in the audience are convinced that they are for individual rights.
Santorum et al are for individual rights of hetero white property owning males, ONLY.
The rest of us...we all look alike.
Everyone who doesn't fit into that narrow box is to be their dhimmis, with that status enforced by the government.
| 155 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:15:06pm |
re: #151 SanFranciscoZionist
I totally think I know what happened there, but we may never know.
| 156 |
freetoken Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:15:52pm |
For example, the first comment on the MSNBC story on the Science paper:
Curious Bob
Africa still one of the world's most dangerous continents and people are still leaving it...Some things never change.....Is there an indication of a propensity for violence in any of those strands...or is that just called a "survival instinct"?
1 vote
#1 - Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:49 PM EDT
Fortunately some other commenters jumped on that as veiled racism.
| 157 |
HappyWarrior Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:17:36pm |
I am calling it a night people. Early class. Glad I missed the debate. This tidbit though is exactly why I have no respect for the current Republican Party at all.
| 158 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:17:59pm |
Are we going to see any Democratic Debates?
| 159 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:18:18pm |
| 160 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:18:49pm |
re: #159 SanFranciscoZionist
No surprises.
Guess she is going to get a pass from the Party on that one . . .
| 161 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:19:09pm |
re: #148 ggt
I guess I don't count. I didn't ask on this particular occasion because I knew there were Tea Party Women there.
I do look myself. When I go into an office, I look to see if there are women doing jobs besides answering the phones . . ..
In the early-days of the abortion protests, it seemed the majority were men, so now I look for women there too.
Sorry if you didn't like my question.
It doesn't matter if I like the question. I just found it to be problematic and didn't have a problem saying so. TV is staged and produced. A broadcast on television is much different from an office setting or even abortion protest.
I'll also add that in that model, Black women count as "Blacks" and not "Women". Same for any other minority "women" -- we have no gender in that model.
| 162 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:20:23pm |
re: #158 ggt
Are we going to see any Democratic Debates?
Only if the leftydoodles come up with someone to "primary Obama" /Schadenfreude
| 163 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:20:52pm |
re: #150 SanFranciscoZionist
It's not that they think it won't work, it's that they are pretty sure it will work, and that scares the hell out of them.
It scares them because history shows what happens when you remove barriers in the military. The service of black men in WWII was enough to convince Truman and many brass that desegregation of the services was something worth doing. It was many of those veterans, men who came home with chests covered with medals and honors up the yin-yang, who sparked questions about segregation when folks saw them being forced to accept menial jobs or being treated like second-class citizens. After all, if a black man can take a bullet just as well as a white man, why should he be treated differently?
And that's what scares the bigots so much, because when you start stripping away the years of silence and see that gay men and women have fought, bled, and died for a nation that says they can't get married or raise a family in peace, then public sentiment is going to shift and the bigots are going to find themselves on the losing end of history yet again.
| 166 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:23:10pm |
Monster Puppy won Best in Class in his show today.
His sister won Best of Puppy. Girls always do better.
I don't understand the Confirmation Ring. I do Obedience. So the titles classification's mystify me. All I know is that the competition was a total of 18 puppies. The number of dogs determines the point value etc . . .
So Monster Puppy and Sis did very well.
| 167 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:23:57pm |
re: #160 ggt
Guess she is going to get a pass from the Party on that one . . .
Guess so. My theory that if this woman really exists, and did not make her story up out of whole cloth, what we really have here is a kid starting junior high, being retested and being formally classified for the first time as mildly retarded, rather than borderline low intelligence. Mom doesn't understand the diagnosis, freaks, and develops a post hoc ergo propter hoc connection with the Gardasil. And pours it all out on Michele Bachmann, who will understand.
| 168 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:24:51pm |
Okay, I have questions about the reputations of a Greek organization on my campus that is national. Any College Grads want to help?
| 169 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:25:09pm |
re: #161 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
It doesn't matter if I like the question. I just found it to be problematic and didn't have a problem saying so. TV is staged and produced. A broadcast on television is much different from an office setting or even abortion protest.
I'll also add that in that model, Black women count as "Blacks" and not "Women". Same for any other minority "women" -- we have no gender in that model.
It being staged, to me, is even more of an indication which voters they are pandering to. It bothers me that the candidates/Party wouldn't be courting all Americans.
Each wants to be POTUS of white so-called Christian people only, IMHO.
| 170 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:27:13pm |
re: #168 ProLifeLiberal
Okay, I have questions about the reputations of a Greek organization on my campus that is national. Any College Grads want to help?
From what I understand, there is lots of sexual activity in Fraternity and Sorority houses. Kinda like in prison.
:0
| 171 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:27:42pm |
| 172 |
freetoken Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:27:50pm |
re: #152 ggt
Some of the press in Australia are getting reactions from some aboriginals - one in the Australian was that the interviewee was going to stick with his creation myth.
Almost all media stories are glossing over the complexities of the migration events, trying to over-simplify what really can't be. For example, trying to say there were multiple migrations out of Africa post 70,000 years ago is too simple. What could have happened is that a single migration out of Africa into the Levant and Arabia, and from there multiple groups set out eastward, and then some northward.
The paper in Science makes the point that the eastward migration had to happen in at least two different groups - the first being the group that interbred the Denisovans and ended up in Australia and PNG area, and a second group moved through central Asia after the Denisovans went extinct, and ended up in the Orient (China and surrounds.)
So it's not so much as Out of Africa as much as Out of Wherever. There are many, many possibilities.
The critical issue as far as our culture wars go is that modern anthropology and genetics have shown pretty conclusively that human evolution these past 100,000 years or so is highly complex and there was interbreeding from closely related people that are not thought of as H. sapiens.
Thus the accusation, implied usually and not explicitly stated, by some is that certain groups of people are more evolved than others.
The whole concept of "more evolved" is daffy and springs from the religious model of a creation ladder, where one species is "above" another. All living organisms are evolved, period.
| 173 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:29:00pm |
re: #163 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
The service of black men in WWII was enough to convince Truman and many brass that desegregation of the services was something worth doing...After all, if a black man can take a bullet just as well as a white man, why should he be treated differently?
Actually, moves to desegregate the military date back to at least the Civil War. Like Obama and the end of DADT, the move to get rid of DADT began about the same time it was imposed. i.e. 2 decades ago.
There are a lot of differences in the two cases, mainly around the problem of visibility, and the way anti-Black and antigay measures were imposed by the military over the years.
But a lot of anti-segregation activism that led to Truman's decision began in earnest after WW1, when Black GIs came back hoping/expecting their service would earn them a better place and instead were met by Red Summer, when some of the country's worst race riots occurred from veterans demanding their rights.
And that's what scares the bigots so much, because when you start stripping away the years of silence and see that gay men and women have fought, bled, and died for a nation that says they can't get married or raise a family in peace, then public sentiment is going to shift and the bigots are going to find themselves on the losing end of history yet again.
That's a part of it. The main thing with both situations is that the bigot whites simply cannot compete without government paving the way for them by holding back competitors.
| 174 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:30:25pm |
re: #168 ProLifeLiberal
Okay, I have questions about the reputations of a Greek organization on my campus that is national. Any College Grads want to help?
I did my degree on two campuses. Transfered junior year. Neither of 'em had Greeks. Or a football team.
I had a weird college experience.
| 175 |
goddamnedfrank Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:30:35pm |
re: #140 HappyWarrior
I don't know Frank. One thing's for damn sure, it seems to me that the Republican Party instead of moving forward on issues like this is stuck in the dark ages.
The Dark Ages were in fact more enlightened than the modern GOP, they had affrerement.
"The very existence of affrèrements shows that there was a radical shift in attitudes between the sixteenth century and the rise of modern antihomosexual legislation in the twentieth."
| 176 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:31:25pm |
re: #170 ggt
Haha, very funny.
In any case, a person (an officer to be exact) who ignored a message about being disaffected at Alpha Phi Omega is also part of Alpha Gamma Delta. What is the reputation of the latter.
When this valley girl and one of her friends weren't officers last year, I had a much better time. In fact this person (an easily offended Republican) essentially pushed out the person who was my big when I was pledging (a tiny little Muslim Pakistani Woman).
| 177 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:32:58pm |
re: #170 ggt
From what I understand, there is lots of sexual activity in Fraternity and Sorority houses. Kinda like in prison.
:0
I graduated from Mills. I like to tell people that what they say about men's prisons and women's colleges is all true.
(My dear Irish Catholic granny, when she heard I was transferring to Mills, raised an eyebrow, and said, "Isn't that a...lesbian school?")
| 178 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:33:24pm |
| 179 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:33:38pm |
re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist
Your Grandmother sounds precious!
| 180 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:33:59pm |
re: #172 freetoken
Some of the press in Australia are getting reactions from some aboriginals - one in the Australian was that the interviewee was going to stick with his creation myth.
Almost all media stories are glossing over the complexities of the migration events, trying to over-simplify what really can't be. For example, trying to say there were multiple migrations out of Africa post 70,000 years ago is too simple. What could have happened is that a single migration out of Africa into the Levant and Arabia, and from there multiple groups set out eastward, and then some northward.
The paper in Science makes the point that the eastward migration had to happen in at least two different groups - the first being the group that interbred the Denisovans and ended up in Australia and PNG area, and a second group moved through central Asia after the Denisovans went extinct, and ended up in the Orient (China and surrounds.)
So it's not so much as Out of Africa as much as Out of Wherever. There are many, many possibilities.
The critical issue as far as our culture wars go is that modern anthropology and genetics have shown pretty conclusively that human evolution these past 100,000 years or so is highly complex and there was interbreeding from closely related people that are not thought of as H. sapiens.
Thus the accusation, implied usually and not explicitly stated, by some is that certain groups of people are more evolved than others.
The whole concept of "more evolved" is daffy and springs from the religious model of a creation ladder, where one species is "above" another. All living organisms are evolved, period.
One thing I always wonder. What did the Earth look like 70K years ago. Were the Continents as far apart? I know there were more land bridges that made travel easier (Alaksa to Russia --and all the little Islands in the South Pacific etc).
There is always the question of the similarity of architecture between South America and Egypt.
The map they showed on the Austrialian Hair DNA article I saw showed no difference between the current map of Australia and the South Pacific and what it probably looked like when the humans migrated (ess water, more land--making an migration easier)
| 181 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:34:32pm |
re: #169 ggt
It being staged, to me, is even more of an indication which voters they are pandering to. It bothers me that the candidates/Party wouldn't be courting all Americans.
Why? White confederate conservatives started on this road with the GOP beginning in the mid 60s -- when have they ever court all Americans, let alone us?
Best they have along those lines is spittling in our faces that we're voting for the klan if we vote Democratic. Not much of a strategy for getting one of the country's most coveted voting blocs.
If they want a regional party that appeals to one kind of voter because they think that kind of voter has all the money and will be their benefactors, that's their problem. It would be nice to have two legitimate parties in a two-party system, though. From the looks of things, I'm not counting on it any time soon.
| 182 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:34:57pm |
re: #180 ggt
Things 70,000 years ago were in roughly the same location, albeit probably with different sea levels.
| 184 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:36:05pm |
re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist
I graduated from Mills. I like to tell people that what they say about men's prisons and women's colleges is all true.
(My dear Irish Catholic granny, when she heard I was transferring to Mills, raised an eyebrow, and said, "Isn't that a...lesbian school?")
Pillow Friends?
| 185 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:36:33pm |
re: #179 ProLifeLiberal
Your Grandmother sounds precious!
She was a firecracker.
This is the one who, at my graduation, as the terrible boyfriend of one my friends ranted on about how women should not be in combat, because they could be raped, leaned forward and said, sweetly, "Well, so could you be, dear, but you haven't let that stop you from a career in the military. I think that's very brave."
He shut up. Actually, he turned pale and shut up. (He was also, we learned later, lying about his military background.)
| 186 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:37:37pm |
re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist
I graduated from Mills. I like to tell people that what they say about men's prisons and women's colleges is all true.
(My dear Irish Catholic granny, when she heard I was transferring to Mills, raised an eyebrow, and said, "Isn't that a...lesbian school?")
A grad school friend of mine was chaplain at Mills. Also an alumna.
| 187 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:38:46pm |
re: #181 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Why? White confederate conservatives started on this road with the GOP beginning in the mid 60s -- when have they ever court all Americans, let alone us?
Best they have along those lines is spittling in our faces that we're voting for the klan if we vote Democratic. Not much of a strategy for getting one of the country's most coveted voting blocs.
If they want a regional party that appeals to one kind of voter because they think that kind of voter has all the money and will be their benefactors, that's their problem. It would be nice to have two legitimate parties in a two-party system, though. From the looks of things, I'm not counting on it any time soon.
Humans make such a mess of things.
sigh!
| 188 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:39:00pm |
re: #184 ggt
Pillow Friends?
There are some lovely photographs taken by an early Mills student. One of them shows two girls in Edwardian nightgowns kissing in what is clearly one of the old dorm rooms.
Yes, there are people who will (and did) insist that this was just a display of sisterly affection.
In much the same way Greek soldiers making out was a display of brotherly solidarity.
| 189 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:39:33pm |
re: #186 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
A grad school friend of mine was chaplain at Mills. Also an alumna.
Linda Moody was the chaplain in my day.
| 190 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:41:18pm |
re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist
Your grandmother was awesome. My grandparents are cool, but I couldn't see them doing that.
Looking at the internet, it seems the Sorority in question has a decent reputation. No the question now is whether she is a bad apple, or whether the chapter is a bad apple. Another of their members has become big this semester, and has been rather trashy at our functions with music at them.
| 191 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:41:20pm |
| 192 |
freetoken Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:41:34pm |
re: #180 ggt
Sea level was lower, though it didn't bottom out until the peak of the last glaciation 20 some thousand years ago.
So the populating of Australia would still have had to been by boat, though the journey would have been shorter than today. However, much of Indonesia could have been walked, or the water crossings were so short a simple raft (tree trunk) would have sufficed.
The continents don't move far enough over 70,000 years to make a big difference.
Convergence in culture (e.g., architecture) has more to do with human physiology and language requirements. All humans have the same binocular vision and hearing response (more or less) so we make things that look similar. All humans are tribal animals so we build our living places to accommodate the tribe. Etc.
Language similarities can be used to trace origins, but that falls apart the farther back one goes.
Only anatomy (skeletons primarily) and genotype can be used to any confidence to understand origins and evolutionary changes. Cultural remains are useful but too far back and the details sort of vanish. We know our ancestors were using tools of a certain type a million years ago, but we don't know much else about what they did.
| 193 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:42:46pm |
re: #180 ggt
One thing I always wonder. What did the Earth look like 70K years ago. Were the Continents as far apart? I know there were more land bridges that made travel easier (Alaksa to Russia --and all the little Islands in the South Pacific etc).
There is always the question of the similarity of architecture between South America and Egypt.
The map they showed on the Austrialian Hair DNA article I saw showed no difference between the current map of Australia and the South Pacific and what it probably looked like when the humans migrated (ess water, more land--making an migration easier)
i don't think the land masses have migrated much in that time but keep in mind that 70k bc is 60k years or so before the end of the ice age and considerably more coastal land was exposed
some idea of what this must have been like can be gleaned by looking at a map that shows undersea topography and noting which areas are relatively shallow coastal shelf
btw the first migrations out of africa are estimated at about 60k bc with the aborigines arriving in australia about 40k and the first anatomically modern humans intruding into neanderthal territory in europe at about 45k bc
| 194 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:44:30pm |
re: #191 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Gay till graduation.
It's funny. Practically all of my college friends identified as lesbians when we were in school.
One of them is now married to a woman, although they have a poly relationship that includes at least one man.
All the rest are now with men.
The woman I called 'the last lesbian left standing' for years is now married to a man. They have two little boys. It was the end of an era.
| 195 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:44:43pm |
re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist
She was a firecracker.
This is the one who, at my graduation, as the terrible boyfriend of one my friends ranted on about how women should not be in combat, because they could be raped, leaned forward and said, sweetly, "Well, so could you be, dear, but you haven't let that stop you from a career in the military. I think that's very brave."
He shut up. Actually, he turned pale and shut up. (He was also, we learned later, lying about his military background.)
The ones with the most to prove usually are the ones who cannot compete.
| 196 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:44:52pm |
re: #192 freetoken
We know our ancestors were using tools of a certain type a million years ago, but we don't know much else about what they did.
I think they probably did much the same as we do today. Eat, drink, sleep, work to sustain themselves, have sex, have babies . . . .fight with each other, sing, dance, get drunk . . .
| 197 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:46:23pm |
re: #187 ggt
Humans make such a mess of things.
sigh!
I heard the Pink Panther say it first: Humans are the craziest people.
| 198 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:46:50pm |
Where did this 70k come from? We all know 6k is the absolute max it could possibly be.
| 199 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:47:23pm |
re: #197 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I heard the Pink Panther say it first: Humans are the craziest people.
Pink Panther never said anything. You're thinking Snagglepuss.
| 200 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:49:58pm |
re: #177 SanFranciscoZionist
I graduated from Mills. I like to tell people that what they say about men's prisons and women's colleges is all true.
(My dear Irish Catholic granny, when she heard I was transferring to Mills, raised an eyebrow, and said, "Isn't that a...lesbian school?")
My older daughter graduated from MIT. It first started to look like she might get to go there back when she was a junior in high school. I will never forget the discussion I had about it with her mother. The older daughter's mother is my notorious first wife, aka Jezebel and sometimes worse (though not in front of our daughter). Jezebel said, "Gee, Jimmy, I don't know if I want JJ to go there. I hear all the boys there are gay."
Instead of pointing out that this could not possibly be true I just said, "So, is this a problem? Sounds like an ideal safe environment for her to me."
Jezebel huffed, as she is prone to do, and demanded to know if I could be serious about anything.
She isn't sure about our daughter going to one of the best schools in the world because of an idiotic and scurrilous rumor, and she wants me to be serious?
(The daughter met her husband there, btw, proving her mother wrong yet again.)
| 201 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:51:57pm |
re: #194 SanFranciscoZionist
It's funny. Practically all of my college friends identified as lesbians when we were in school.
One of them is now married to a woman, although they have a poly relationship that includes at least one man.
All the rest are now with men.
The woman I called 'the last lesbian left standing' for years is now married to a man. They have two little boys. It was the end of an era.
I knew quite a few "gay till graduation"/who-ya-foolin types. The people like your friends you describe...eh, everyone goes through their transitions; to an extent, I can relate to them, since I also like men. It's the ones who turn homophobic after being head of the LGBT campus group, so they can get their inheritance or keep their unearned social privileges, etc., them cn go jump in lake. Known a few of those.
| 202 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:53:49pm |
re: #201 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I knew quite a few "gay till graduation"/who-ya-foolin types. The people like your friends you describe...eh, everyone goes through their transitions; to an extent, I can relate to them, since I also like men. It's the ones who turn homophobic after being head of the LGBT campus group, so they can get their inheritance or keep their unearned social privileges, etc., them cn go jump in lake. Known a few of those.
Like some parents I know whose kids think they were virgins when they got married and never did any drug harder than alcohol. They outright lie to their kids and to anyone else.
Even me, who they know, knows better.
| 203 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:54:12pm |
re: #199 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Pink Panther never said anything. You're thinking Snagglepuss.
Yes! I am thinking of Snagglepuss.
Hey, it was the early 70s. A preschooler can get confused...I did, often, between Snagglepuss.
In fact, I was so confused, I didn't get why I didn't enjoy Pink Panther movies when they came on tv. :/
Looks like I'm still confused. /thewayitgoes
| 204 |
Shiplord Kirel Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:54:45pm |
re: #180 ggt
One thing I always wonder. What did the Earth look like 70K years ago. Were the Continents as far apart? I know there were more land bridges that made travel easier (Alaksa to Russia --and all the little Islands in the South Pacific etc).
There is always the question of the similarity of architecture between South America and Egypt.
The map they showed on the Austrialian Hair DNA article I saw showed no difference between the current map of Australia and the South Pacific and what it probably looked like when the humans migrated (ess water, more land--making an migration easier)
70 thousand years is the blink of an eye in geological terms. The topography was pretty much what it is today, with short term variations in sea level and a few changes because of localized catastropes like the Santorini eruption and the effects of glaciation.
| 205 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:56:04pm |
actually, i have read up on prehistoric european archeology quite a bit - basically from the time that people like us got there about 54k bc to the time that the romans brought most of the continent into recorded history about 100 bc
the time of gathering and big game hunting during the ice age lasts until about 10k bc - more than 30 thousand years compared to the 12 thousand or so since the ice age ended. during the ice age europeans created the cave paintings that show such astonishing technique, essentially founding the human practice of making great art
the thousands of years of european history after the end of the ice age, especially after the coming of farming to europe at about 6000 bc, is fascinating to me but for some reason much less familiar to most people than what the sumerians and egyptians were doing at the same time
of course the europeans at that time were backwoods hillbillies with nothing much to show but nicely painted pottery and colorful textiles and suchlike
| 206 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:56:08pm |
re: #203 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yes! I am thinking of Snagglepuss.
Hey, it was the early 70s. A preschooler can get confused...I did, often, between Snagglepuss.
In fact, I was so confused, I didn't get why I didn't enjoy Pink Panther movies when they came on tv. :/
Looks like I'm still confused. /thewayitgoes
Bryan Fischer's nightmare part 2: Bears in a flying ark
| 207 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:57:49pm |
re: #202 ggt
Like some parents I know whose kids think they were virgins when they got married and never did any drug harder than alcohol. They outright lie to their kids and to anyone else.
Even me, who they know, knows better.
Yeah, it's very similar. My bff has a history way more colorful than mine, and has a kindergartener, so we've talked about this. It's like...hey, I'll never tell, but if you pull that social morality trip on her and I'm around? we will indeed be having that little hey-can-i-talk-to-you-in-the-other-room conversation lol
| 208 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:57:53pm |
I'm right now dealing with the aforementioned 'lady" who is the Vice-President of Membership. You will hear how this ends up.
I won't too hurt though. The Geography Club (my major) has accepted me with open arms (One person there who was formerly part of APO criticized those who are now officers) and the Pakistani Student Association has as well (despite the fact that I am whiter than a Snowflake).
| 209 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:58:55pm |
re: #201 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I knew quite a few "gay till graduation"/who-ya-foolin types. The people like your friends you describe...eh, everyone goes through their transitions; to an extent, I can relate to them, since I also like men. It's the ones who turn homophobic after being head of the LGBT campus group, so they can get their inheritance or keep their unearned social privileges, etc., them cn go jump in lake. Known a few of those.
All of my friends have remained pretty cool, at least those who were cool in college. But WOW they turned straight. In a mere fifteen years.
| 210 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 10:59:35pm |
re: #205 engineer dog
actually, i have read up on prehistoric european archeology quite a bit - basically from the time that people like us got there about 54k bc to the time that the romans brought most of the continent into recorded history about 100 bc
the time of gathering and big game hunting during the ice age lasts until about 10k bc - more than 30 thousand years compared to the 12 thousand or so since the ice age ended. during the ice age europeans created the cave paintings that show such astonishing technique, essentially founding the human practice of making great art
the thousands of years of european history after the end of the ice age, especially after the coming of farming to europe at about 6000 bc, is fascinating to me but for some reason much less familiar to most people than what the sumerians and egyptians were doing at the same time
of course the europeans at that time were backwoods hillbillies with nothing much to show but nicely painted pottery and colorful textiles and suchlike
I remember reading a very scholarly book about that some time ago. Well, I actually remember very little. Only that Europe was kind of isolated because of the sea, the mountains and the steppes. Afrika & Asia had more of an opportunity for migration . . .and trade, etc.
| 211 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:00:53pm |
re: #206 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Bryan Fischer's nightmare part 2: Bears in a flying ark
[Video]
Ok so a this or that/which do you prefer game.
Hanna-Barbera or Warner Brothers
| 212 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:00:53pm |
re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist
All of my friends have remained pretty cool, at least those who were cool in college. But WOW they turned straight. In a mere fifteen years.
So see, Michelle Bachmann is right, you can pray away teh ghey . . .
/gah
| 213 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:03:48pm |
re: #208 ProLifeLiberal
She doesn't want to discuss things over Private FB messaging. This promises to be special. I get the feeling she wants to create a scene. I'll deny her this.
Sorry about having drama on here.
| 214 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:03:51pm |
re: #202 ggt
Like some parents I know whose kids think they were virgins when they got married and never did any drug harder than alcohol. They outright lie to their kids and to anyone else.
Even me, who they know, knows better.
My folks were hip. Neither has lied to us about their younger years. If anything, some of the funniest stories I remember growing up were about the shit my old man got away with when he was younger. Of course, he came of age in the 70s, so most of what he got away with would be frowned upon these days.
| 215 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:03:57pm |
re: #209 SanFranciscoZionist
All of my friends have remained pretty cool, at least those who were cool in college. But WOW they turned straight. In a mere fifteen years.
Hafta say, mine didn't; I have a few who are in opposite-sex marriages and relationships (self included from time to time) but still consider themselves, um, "somebody's sister".
There are so many queer equivalents for "MOtT" or "brotha/sista", etc., "somebody's sister" seemed good as any lol
| 216 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:04:36pm |
re: #212 ggt
So see, Michelle Bachmann is right, you can pray away teh ghey . . .
/gah
Well, the former Last Lesbian Left Standing is in fact an Episcopal priest. As is her husband.
OTOH, the one who is married to a woman is married to a woman who is a priestess of Bast. So prayer seems to work in both directions on this.
| 217 |
freetoken Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:04:56pm |
re: #205 engineer dog
... for some reason much less familiar to most people than what the sumerians and egyptians were doing at the same time
Writing.
The great river cultures in Egypt and Mesopotamia invented writing to keep track of their accounting.
Yes, the bean counters invented writing.
BTW, the "Europeans" of today aren't necessarily the ones dug up from the mesolithic or the neolithic. That's one of the discoveries of population genetics. It looks like the spread of agriculture was often accomplished by replacement as much as interbreeding.
Fascinating stuff... but quite foreign to most people.
I wonder what would have happened in the "debate" tonight if one of the candidates would have mentioned any of this?
| 218 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:05:27pm |
re: #211 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Ok so a this or that/which do you prefer game.
Hanna-Barbera or Warner Brothers
[Video]
Yes.
| 220 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:06:07pm |
re: #210 ggt
I remember reading a very scholarly book about that some time ago. Well, I actually remember very little. Only that Europe was kind of isolated because of the sea, the mountains and the steppes. Afrika & Asia had more of an opportunity for migration . . .and trade, etc.
the neolithic gets some attention from us berkeley hippie types because of all the goddess worshiping that seems to have been going on
also, for linguistics nerds, there is the contentious and unsettled question: Who Were The Original Indo Europeans, Anyway, Already, Ferchrissakes
| 221 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:06:18pm |
re: #214 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
My folks were hip. Neither has lied to us about their younger years. If anything, some of the funniest stories I remember growing up were about the shit my old man got away with when he was younger. Of course, he came of age in the 70s, so most of what he got away with would be frowned upon these days.
The thing is that you don't have to answer any of the questions your kid might ask. Or you can answer by not answering.
We always told our kid that what we did shouldn't have any bearing what he does. He has to make his own choices.
Now that he is older we talk more freely. He is actually the one who is uncomfortable hearing what we did.
HA!
| 222 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:06:32pm |
re: #219 freetoken
Let's here it for the bean counters!
I thought we were talking about bean flickers?
| 223 |
ProGunLiberal Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:07:10pm |
re: #215 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Speaking of gender issues, I was minorly amused when you confused me for a woman. Not offended at all.
My friends in High School took the place of my dad when learning how to act. They were all women. So I am aware that I act a bit "off" compared to other men.
Still straight, just eccentric as all hell.
| 224 |
The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:07:14pm |
re: #136 Dark_Falcon
Hanson backs up his case on Greek Warfare in A War Like None Other. He really does know his stuff for ancient Greece.
Sorry, but no. Hansen has made his career as a popular historian by abandoning rigor in favor of claiming a two-and-half millenia continuity of civic values between Greek and modern Europe/America, glossing around details that fail to buttress this position. Basically, he's continuing a tradition of historians of past ages that have created narrative propaganda in which their empire recapitulates that positive attributes of the Classical Greeks...and in turn the Classical Greeks have had their rough edges smoothed away, and the idylls of their finest scholars are uniformly and universally held by every Hellene. Hansen fortifies his position and grouses about political correctness and multiculturalism transforming our understanding of the past, but he actively chooses to present a simplistic narrative in which the cultural features of Classical Greek have been not only rendered palatable to a modern reader, but exist to flatter the reader with a sense of moral continuity with the (fictive) enlightened men of the past.
His works on other periods similarly rely upon projection and anachronism, plus a laughable degree of assigning deep principles to desperate fights for survival...which, coincidentally, all concern how European-ness allows Europeans to triumph militarily over non-Europeans. He also makes dramatic and foolish errors with factual materials...again, coincidentally, these factual errors increase the efficacy of the described European combatants. For example, describing Rorke's Drift, he doubles the known Zulu casualties from 381 to 800, and see no contradictory in arguing that disciplined fire and marksmanship training is what permitted Chard's forces to survive while giving the (accurate) number of discharged cartridges as 20,000.
A War Like None Other is a joke because it discusses the Peloponnesian War without mention of the Delian League or the campaign for Sicilian Syracuse as aspects of the conflict...all the more glaring considering US-Athens and Middle East/terrorism-Sparta parallels Hansen maintains--all of which demonstrates that his intent is not accuracy--after all, he's willing to cut-and-paste Thucydides and ignore his interpretations even as he lauds the scholar--but the creation of a tidy story. I have no idea whether Hansen "knows his stuff" but frankly he chooses to write and present such that history services his talking points, and more often than not his present-day political opinions.
| 225 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:08:57pm |
re: #220 engineer dog
the neolithic gets some attention from us berkeley hippie types because of all the goddess worshiping that seems to have been going on
also, for linguistics nerds, there is the contentious and unsettled question: Who Were The Original Indo Europeans, Anyway, Already, Ferchrissakes
I thought they were planted there by aliens? --no
Oh, wait it was the God of Abraham.
oh, wait. No, it was the people from the Indian Penninsula --the Ayrans--
um, um,
I just can't remember . . . .
:)
| 226 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:10:02pm |
re: #212 ggt
So see, Michelle Bachmann is right, you can pray away teh ghey . . .
/gah
I always say -- to the consternation of many of my peers -- eh, so what if you could, every person is privy to the SAME civil rights and the SAME treatment by the government.
That's really what Bachmann and the rest of the Original Sin states rights dhimmitude misanthropes have the problem with. Dorks.
| 227 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:10:28pm |
re: #220 engineer dog
the neolithic gets some attention from us berkeley hippie types because of all the goddess worshiping that seems to have been going on
also, for linguistics nerds, there is the contentious and unsettled question: Who Were The Original Indo Europeans, Anyway, Already, Ferchrissakes
Always amazes me how much people seem to know about a religion of group of people who didn't write and about which the Romans destroyed all remnants.
| 228 |
freetoken Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:11:25pm |
re: #224 The Ghost of a Flea
It's Hanson.
Other than that, I agree that VDH is now more into a propagandistic narrative propagation than anything else.
Other than selling tickets for his cruises.
| 229 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:12:29pm |
I just realized that the guy who asked the YouTube question "Which department would you eliminate and why?" during the GOP debate last night was a former lizard.
| 230 |
The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:12:32pm |
re: #225 ggt
I thought they were planted there by aliens? --no
Oh, wait it was the God of Abraham.
oh, wait. No, it was the people from the Indian Penninsula --the Ayrans--
um, um,
I just can't remember . . .
:)
Standing theory is that proto-Indo-European starts somewhere around the Urals, then pushes out in multiple waves of migration. At one point the theoried group were associated with burial mounds (kurgan) in that region, resulting in the name, the Kurgan Hypothesis.
As in Clancy Brown's character in the original Highlander. I shit you not.
| 231 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:12:48pm |
re: #221 ggt
The thing is that you don't have to answer any of the questions your kid might ask. Or you can answer by not answering.
We always told our kid that what we did shouldn't have any bearing what he does. He has to make his own choices.
Now that he is older we talk more freely. He is actually the one who is uncomfortable hearing what we did.
HA!
Yeah, that's pretty much my folks in a nutshell: "We're not going to say 'Don't do that,' but we're not going to hold your hand either." To some kids these days, that would be an open invitation to get away with murder, but I never gave into the temptation. Never drank, never did drugs stronger than caffeine and Tylenol, and never engaged in less-than-legal activities besides speeding now and then. Though I'm pretty sure part of it also has to do with my grandmother, who has mastered the art of the Guilt Trip.
| 232 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:13:18pm |
re: #229 000G
I just realized that the guy who asked the YouTube question "Which department would you eliminate and why?" during the GOP debate last night was a former lizard.
...bwah?
| 233 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:14:13pm |
re: #223 ProLifeLiberal
Speaking of gender issues, I was minorly amused when you confused me for a woman. Not offended at all.
My friends in High School took the place of my dad when learning how to act. They were all women. So I am aware that I act a bit "off" compared to other men.
Still straight, just eccentric as all hell.
Dear, I get confused online for male all the time. Online, at least.
Now admittedly, this particular screen name does not help lol But that started long before this screen name.
Offline, never get called "sir" when in professional garbdrag/suited up. That's on purpose. I think it's funny.
| 234 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:14:25pm |
re: #230 The Ghost of a Flea
Standing theory is that proto-Indo-European starts somewhere around the Urals, then pushes out in multiple waves of migration. At one point the theoried group were associated with burial mounds (kurgan) in that region, resulting in the name, the Kurgan Hypothesis.
As in Clancy Brown's character in the original Highlander. I shit you not.
Yes, I remember THE KURGAN and some basis for him choosing the name.
I think what the Whacko's have such a hard time with is that we have to adjust our perceptions as more discovery's are made. We can't adjust the discoveries to our perceptions. . . .
| 235 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:15:20pm |
re: #232 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
...bwah?
This is his YT channel: [Link: www.youtube.com...]
I forgot what his account name on here was. Devil's Advocate or something… He was a Paulbot.
| 236 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:15:30pm |
re: #227 ggt
Always amazes me how much people seem to know about a religion of group of people who didn't write and about which the Romans destroyed all remnants.
not really
the greeks and the romans, not to mention the celts, were their descendents, and remembered and related the past as much as they remembered
but, having said that, there is indeed a lot of speculation and little if any hard knowledge about neolithic religion to be gleaned from pots and statuettes
btw the celts originated in the area around austria/switzerland and at the time of the early romans basically dominated southern germany and france
| 237 |
freetoken Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:16:56pm |
re: #236 engineer dog
but, having said that, there is indeed a lot of speculation and little if any hard knowledge about neolithic religion to be gleaned from pots and statuettes
... and the dildos... don't forget the dildos.
| 238 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:17:02pm |
re: #231 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Yeah, that's pretty much my folks in a nutshell: "We're not going to say 'Don't do that,' but we're not going to hold your hand either." To some kids these days, that would be an open invitation to get away with murder, but I never gave into the temptation. Never drank, never did drugs stronger than caffeine and Tylenol, and never engaged in less-than-legal activities besides speeding now and then. Though I'm pretty sure part of it also has to do with my grandmother, who has mastered the art of the Guilt Trip.
Oh, I've learned to appreciate the Art of the Catholic Guilt Trip. It has it's purposes.
I don't go for specifics, drugs, sex etc.
I just try to instill a basis respect for self and other human beings as well as a respect for natural consequences.
If you do this, what will happen? Yes, I'll be mad, but what else will happen?
Do the right thing . . .
| 239 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:17:47pm |
re: #235 000G
This is his YT channel: [Link: www.youtube.com...]
I forgot what his account name on here was. Devil's Advocate or something… He was a Paulbot.
Ah, must have been after I went on extended hiatus. Seems that not a week goes by without finding out about the loonies who roamed these lands in my absence.
| 240 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:18:02pm |
re: #225 ggt
I thought they were planted there by aliens? --no
Oh, wait it was the God of Abraham.
oh, wait. No, it was the people from the Indian Penninsula --the Ayrans--
um, um,
I just can't remember . . .
:)
the most popular candidates for Original Indo European Speakers are cultures from various locations around the black sea from about 6000 to 4000 bc
getting any more specific than that involves intellectual fistfights
| 241 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:18:43pm |
re: #236 engineer dog
not really
the greeks and the romans, not to mention the celts, were their descendents, and remembered and related the past as much as they remembered
but, having said that, there is indeed a lot of speculation and little if any hard knowledge about neolithic religion to be gleaned from pots and statuettes
btw the celts originated in the area around austria/switzerland and at the time of the early romans basically dominated southern germany and france
oh geez, reading about Roman History is so confusing --Gaul across the Alps, Britannia and that strange land covered in ice .. .
LOL
| 242 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:19:39pm |
re: #237 freetoken
... and the dildos... don't forget the dildos.
dildos... they found dildo looking things in paleolithic caves... and flutes...
dildos and flutes... they go all the way back, man....
| 243 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:21:41pm |
re: #242 engineer dog
dildos... they found dildo looking things in paleolithic caves... and flutes...
dildos and flutes... they go all the way back, man...
They weren't dildos --They were icons of their G-d . . .
:0
| 244 |
laZardo Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:22:36pm |
re: #243 ggt
...the flying spaghetti monster?
/you don't want to be "touched" by all those noodly appendages
| 245 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:23:22pm |
re: #230 The Ghost of a Flea
Standing theory is that proto-Indo-European starts somewhere around the Urals, then pushes out in multiple waves of migration. At one point the theoried group were associated with burial mounds (kurgan) in that region, resulting in the name, the Kurgan Hypothesis.
As in Clancy Brown's character in the original Highlander. I shit you not.
mmmmm i don't like the kurgans so much and i take colin renfrew's point of view that it was the people who brought farming over from anatolia to the balkans at about 6000 bc makes more sense
marija gimbutas likes the kurgans but she's not a linguist
| 246 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:23:31pm |
re: #239 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Ah, must have been after I went on extended hiatus. Seems that not a week goes by without finding out about the loonies who roamed these lands in my absence.
Here is his profile. Gus 802 identified him initially for me: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 247 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:23:52pm |
re: #244 laZardo
Third and last try: Show email.
| 248 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:24:12pm |
re: #243 ggt
They weren't dildos --They were icons of their G-d . . .
:0
that's what i told her but she slapped me
| 249 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:24:51pm |
re: #246 000G
Here is his profile. Gus 802 identified him initially for me: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
And this is why, presumably, he is a former lizard: [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 250 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:25:04pm |
re: #244 laZardo
...the flying spaghetti monster?
/you don't want to be "touched" by all those noodly appendages
I have images in my head of some Victorian nerdy archaelogist finding a dildo and assuming it was a primitive form of worship. Then the slaves he got to work with him from the local villages all snickering and laughing behind his back.
| 251 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:25:13pm |
re: #238 ggt
Oh, I've learned to appreciate the Art of the Catholic Guilt Trip. It has it's purposes.
I don't go for specifics, drugs, sex etc.
I just try to instill a basis respect for self and other human beings as well as a respect for natural consequences.
If you do this, what will happen? Yes, I'll be mad, but what else will happen?
Do the right thing . . .
My grandmother was raised a Southern Baptist, so her Guilt Trips are downright eerie. She can just look at you and make you break down in apologies. At the same time, she's bullheaded when it comes to making up her mind, a trait that she passed on to all her offspring, including my mother (ugh). It's just easier to admit you screwed up when arguing with her, because the only other conclusion is stomping off in a fit of rage.
But yeah, all my life growing up, the general guiding philosophy was "Go ahead, try it, but beware that there will be consequences." Mostly, I like to joke that my old man's purpose in life these days is to serve as a warning to others. At least, when he's not making me worry that he'll drop dead at any given moment.
| 252 |
Kragar Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:26:18pm |
re: #244 laZardo
...the flying spaghetti monster?
/you don't want to be "touched" by all those noodly appendages
Cthulhu has awoken, but he got a job doing hentai instead of world domination
| 253 |
Targetpractice Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:27:33pm |
re: #252 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Cthulhu has awoken, but he got a job doing hentai instead of world domination
Huh, thought that looked like him in that one...ad...I saw...briefly. Right, I...uhm...think I left the...toaster on. *slowly backs out*
//
| 255 |
The Ghost of a Flea Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:29:26pm |
re: #245 engineer dog
mmm i don't like the kurgans so much and i take colin renfrew's point of view that it was the people who brought farming over from anatolia to the balkans at about 6000 bc makes more sense
marija gimbutas likes the kurgans but she's not a linguist
The theories that don't involve Clancy Brown acting like a complete nutter with a big sword tend to slip from my recall.
But you're absolutely correct that there's multiple ideas about how the language moved--doubtless things have moved on since the Kurgan hypothesis, and likely with good reason, so I ain't going to argue. I haven't kept up on theories and don't really have a strong opinion, but I used to be a little wary of the old linguist theories that had Indo-European as the language of some conquering group. Now that I've glanced at the concept, I guess I'll go look at what the newer thinking is saying.
| 256 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:31:54pm |
re: #255 The Ghost of a Flea
The theories that don't involve Clancy Brown acting like a complete nutter with a big sword tend to slip from my recall.
But you're absolutely correct that there's multiple ideas about how the language moved--doubtless things have moved on since the Kurgan hypothesis, and likely with good reason, so I ain't going to argue. I haven't kept up on theories and don't really have a strong opinion, but I used to be a little wary of the old linguist theories that had Indo-European as the language of some conquering group. Now that I've glanced at the concept, I guess I'll go look at what the newer thinking is saying.
The only thing I remember about the development of language is that babies almost all speak the "mmmm" sound first and it is associated with "mother". Most of the words for Mother start with an 'M" sound.
| 257 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:33:42pm |
re: #256 ggt
The only thing I remember about the development of language is that babies almost all speak the "mmm" sound first and it is associated with "mother". Most of the words for Mother start with an 'M" sound.
Except that actually, 'dada' usually comes before 'mama'.
| 258 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:34:21pm |
re: #254 laZardo
Fill in your email in the box that says "Email:" (right above the posting input field) and also check the box next to it that says "Show email".
| 259 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:36:32pm |
re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist
Except that actually, 'dada' usually comes before 'mama'.
I'm so behind on this stuff.
| 260 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:36:47pm |
re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist
Except that actually, 'dada' usually comes before 'mama'.
Wish I could find my notes right now, but I remember a paper I once did on this theory that not even identified similarity in baby talk across cultures for words for parents but also for cousins and the siblings of parents depending on whether it was the mother's or the father's siblings.
| 261 |
engineer cat Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:36:50pm |
re: #255 The Ghost of a Flea
The theories that don't involve Clancy Brown acting like a complete nutter with a big sword tend to slip from my recall.
But you're absolutely correct that there's multiple ideas about how the language moved--doubtless things have moved on since the Kurgan hypothesis, and likely with good reason, so I ain't going to argue. I haven't kept up on theories and don't really have a strong opinion, but I used to be a little wary of the old linguist theories that had Indo-European as the language of some conquering group. Now that I've glanced at the concept, I guess I'll go look at what the newer thinking is saying.
i once read an interesting book where an archaeologist tried to track down the archeological culture most likely to be the aryans properly so called, that is, the people who wrote the bhagavad gita and the vedas, the people supposed to have brought indo european sanskrit to india and who claimed to have invaded and conquered it
about two thirds of the way through the book he says "you will have noticed by now that i haven't found anything that looks remotely like archeological evidence of an aryan invasion"
| 262 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:38:26pm |
re: #261 engineer dog
i once read an interesting book where an archaeologist tried to track down the archeological culture most likely to be the aryans properly so called, that is, the people who wrote the bhagavad gita and the vedas, the people supposed to have brought indo european sanskrit to india and who claimed to have invaded and conquered it
about two thirds of the way through the book he says "you will have noticed by now that i haven't found anything that looks remotely like archeological evidence of an aryan invasion"
I'll go with Aliens for $500 Alex.
:0
| 263 |
laZardo Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:39:40pm |
re: #258 000G
Okay, why do you ask?
Also, if you fill in "Web Site," it shows first even if you do click Show email.
| 264 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:44:06pm |
Did anyone's fb get any better today?
Mine still sucks.
| 265 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:51:18pm |
re: #263 laZardo
Okay, why do you ask?
'cause I wanted to send you an email. Which I've done now, btw.
| 267 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Thu, Sep 22, 2011 11:57:39pm |
re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist
re: #260 000G
Found it, sort of:
"Kin Tongue – A Study of Kin Nursery Terms in Relation to Language Acquisition – With a Historical and Evolutionary Perspective", by Pierre J. Bancel and Alain Matthey de l’Etang
"Tracing the Ancestral Kinship System: The Global Etymon KAKA
Part I: a linguistic study", by Pierre J. Bancel and Alain Matthey de l’Etang
"The Global Distribution of (P)APA and (T)ATA and their Original Meaning", by Alain Matthey de l’Etang and Pierre J. Bancel
Proto-language stuff. Not uncontroversial, IIRC.
| 268 |
ssn697 Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:02:14am |
The Republican Party is now proud of their hatred. They are actually wearing it as a badge of honor now.
| 269 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:04:05am |
re: #268 ssn697
The Republican Party is now proud of their hatred. They are actually wearing it as a badge of honor now.
So "christian". . .
/gah
| 270 |
SteveMcG Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:09:30am |
re: #257 SanFranciscoZionist
Except that actually, 'dada' usually comes before 'mama'.
I thought dada came insi- nah, too easy.
It's worth keeping in mind that language is first of all a spoken form of expresiion. I remember hearing all kinds of people complain about the English language and it's funny spelling rules and stuff like that.
| 271 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:11:20am |
All that money and Zuckerberg is still wearing jeans and an grey t-shirt.
Yes, it's a shameless self Pages plug. You have to click the link to see the picture.
| 272 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:27:44am |
This is hilarious:
| 274 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:41:41am |
re: #268 ssn697
The Republican Party is now proud of their hatred. They are actually wearing it as a badge of honor now.
Democrats 1912 has indeed morphed into Republicans 2012.
Too bad for them all Native Americans have a vote now (since 1924), all women have a vote now (since 1965), the US is for everyone and not just Europeans (also since 1965); theoretically, no gay can be booted out of the military, and nonwhite soldiers don't have to serve in segregated units under white-only officers.
And! people with disabilities can actually get ON the bus, let alone be segregated to the back! //
Sux to be a dumb, stupid confederate these days, /Schadenfreude
| 275 |
laZardo Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:46:37am |
re: #274 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
All good things must come to an end.
/
//seriously, convince me otherwise.
| 276 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:47:19am |
re: #275 laZardo
There is no end to entropy.
| 277 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:51:04am |
JFTR, after having seen all of this: Santorum is despicable, and so are the people who booed the gay soldier serving their country, as well as the people who cheered Santorum for taking pride in his stupid bigotry.
They really do want lies to rule their societies. That's the essence of their thinking.
| 278 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:52:10am |
re: #275 laZardo
All good things must come to an end.
/
//seriously, convince me otherwise.
Eh, they pull this b.s. every generation, with shrillness to match their increasing impotence. We're just witnessing this generation's iteration.
| 279 |
laZardo Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:52:26am |
| 280 |
laZardo Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:53:32am |
re: #278 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Eh, they pull this b.s. every generation, with shrillness to match their increasing impotence. We're just witnessing this generation's iteration.
We abolished slavery 60 years after the British. The Russians removed sexual orientation restrictions on their military in 2000. Whatever they're doing, it works.
| 281 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:54:03am |
re: #279 laZardo
Aggressor against artful alliterations!
| 282 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:55:34am |
re: #280 laZardo
We abolished slavery 60 years after the British. The Russians removed sexual orientation restrictions on their military in 2000. Whatever they're doing, it works.
Not terribly well. If it did, they would not be on the verge of having a stroke out of anger and rage, every minute of the day. /Schadenfreude
F'em.
| 283 |
laZardo Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:56:39am |
re: #281 000G
Aggressor against artful alliterations!
Speaking of which, I must abscond to my air-mattress. Nighty!
| 284 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:56:41am |
re: #280 laZardo
OTOH, I might have misunderstood who you meant by "they", there. I was talking about the dumb bigots in my #280.
| 285 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:56:57am |
| 286 |
laZardo Fri, Sep 23, 2011 12:57:50am |
re: #284 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yeah, that's the one.
| 287 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 1:02:06am |
re: #279 laZardo
Btw, I thought the joke was obvious: Entropy is the concept behind concepts like heat death, i.e. the end of all processes. So there being no end to entropy is, at least on some conceptual level (without going into the obvious difference between concepts and processes and how those terms relate to each other), an oxymoron.
I need more coffee. Or less.
| 288 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 1:02:42am |
re: #285 ggt
G-d's going to destroy the earth by HEAT!
OMG!
/
Lol in an effort to try and get me to turn from my wicked ways, my mother once tried to convince me that "Chernobyl" means "wormwood".
I was like, hey that's cool you're taking Russian. /// What other vocabulary do you know? /// ///
Silence/change of subject.
I wish I'd known at the time that real wormwood is the main ingredient in Absinthe. lol that would have added quite a bit to the conversation, I bet.
| 289 |
AK-47% Fri, Sep 23, 2011 1:32:15am |
re: #268 ssn697
The Republican Party is now proud of their hatred. They are actually wearing it as a badge of honor now.
They see it as being the Party of Ideological Purity, and feel justified, if not compelled, to loudly shout their disapproval of any other viewpoints.
So far they have sat back and made no comment as people cheer the death penalty, cheer letting uninsured people die, and now people booing a serviceman risking his life for his country.
But that all just serves to demonstrate their dedication to their ideals of American Exceptionalism...
| 291 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 1:38:24am |
re: #288 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Lol in an effort to try and get me to turn from my wicked ways, my mother once tried to convince me that "Chernobyl" means "wormwood".
I was like, hey that's cool you're taking Russian. /// What other vocabulary do you know? /// ///
Silence/change of subject.
I wish I'd known at the time that real wormwood is the main ingredient in Absinthe. lol that would have added quite a bit to the conversation, I bet.
OMG, the mental gymnastics it takes to try to make pertinent a passage from a book spoken in an ancient language, transcribed into another and translated many, many times by people of different langauges into still more languages.
| 294 |
AK-47% Fri, Sep 23, 2011 2:07:18am |
re: #291 ggt
OMG, the mental gymnastics it takes to try to make pertinent a passage from a book spoken in an ancient language, transcribed into another and translated many, many times by people of different langauges into still more languages.
It's called a Leap of Faith, and the stronger the Faith, the longer the Leap...
| 296 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 2:13:01am |
| 297 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 2:14:28am |
Autumn started here 10 minutes ago. Should only be 89 today instead of 90.
| 298 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 2:19:52am |
re: #291 ggt
OMG, the mental gymnastics it takes to try to make pertinent a passage from a book spoken in an ancient language, transcribed into another and translated many, many times by people of different langauges into still more languages.
| 299 |
researchok Fri, Sep 23, 2011 2:25:08am |
re: #297 Cannadian Club Akbar
Autumn started here 10 minutes ago. Should only be 89 today instead of 90.
Gonna be frosty here as well...82
| 300 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 2:28:22am |
re: #299 researchok
Gonna be frosty here as well...82
I was gonna go skiing today, then I remembered Florida is flat.
| 301 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 2:48:35am |
Well, at least they're trying.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
| 303 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 3:30:51am |
I walk outside to smoke a cigarette. My friend comes outside to get his clothes out of the dryer. He goes back inside, locks the door and jumps in the shower. Wonder if he's trying to send me a message.
/
| 304 |
Obdicut Fri, Sep 23, 2011 3:33:32am |
re: #303 Cannadian Club Akbar
Well, he definitely isn't sending signals to join him in the shower.
| 305 |
Meitantei Fri, Sep 23, 2011 3:38:25am |
Good morning, everyone.
To those who watched the debate: my colleagues on another non-politics forum told me Romney crushed Perry, but didn't explain how. Are they right?
| 306 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 3:48:12am |
re: #304 Obdicut
Shot you an email.
| 308 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 3:49:16am |
I see Ron Paul is going to be on The Daily Show next week...
heh
Jon, Jon! Ask him about Contagion and eliminating the CDC! Ask him if there’s any govt agencies he likes besides the Coast Guard.
| 309 |
AK-47% Fri, Sep 23, 2011 3:49:50am |
I read it this way: Romney is the candidate of choice of the GOP establishemnt, and they are trying to reassert themselves over the populist darling Perry, who is showing signs of being unelectable against Obama.
So they are leaning on the media to the extent that they can to present the results as a smashing win for Romney.
That is just my subjective view.
It will depend on the outcome of the first primaries. If Perry can position himself as the leader and Great White Hope for defeating obama (in more than the figurative sense) then even the GOP establishment will have to get on board and back him unconditionally.
I hope that Rick Santorum places well enough that he contines to hold on, but only for the entertainment value. I regulary go into Google and search "Santorum" just to help keep the sexual neologism hit at the top of the listing.
| 310 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 3:49:54am |
re: #305 Meitantei
Good morning, everyone.
To those who watched the debate: my colleagues on another non-politics forum told me Romney crushed Perry, but didn't explain how. Are they right?
I didn't watch and every online poll has Luap Nor winning by 30 points.
| 311 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Sep 23, 2011 4:13:41am |
It will depend on the outcome of the first primaries.
Not really
2008 Huckabee won in Iowa by almost 10 points over #2 (who was Romney, btw ,,,and the eventual winner, McCain was 21% points behind in 4th place)
| 312 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 4:21:35am |
I know it is wrong to line people up and shoot them, but something has to be done.
/half
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]
| 313 |
RogueOne Fri, Sep 23, 2011 4:29:46am |
Drudge has this story labelled as "White House Push-back on Solyndra" but I'm not seeing much cover for the administration in it other than the title:
In Rush to Assist Solyndra, U.S. Missed Warning Signs
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
But behind the pomp and pageantry, Solyndra was rotting inside, hemorrhaging cash so quickly that within weeks of Mr. Obama’s visit, the company canceled plans to offer shares to the public. Barely a year later, Solyndra has become one of the administration’s most costly fumbles after the company declared bankruptcy, laid off 1,100 workers and was raided by F.B.I. agents seeking evidence of possible fraud.
.....
The government’s backing of Solyndra, which could cost taxpayers more than a half-billion dollars, came as the politically well-connected business began an extensive lobbying campaign that appears to have blinded government officials to the company’s financial condition and the risks of the investment, according to a review of government documents and interviews with administration officials and industry analysts.
| 314 |
Mickey Blumental Fri, Sep 23, 2011 4:30:12am |
Don't ask don't tell means that you don't tell anyone you're gay, but even if someone finds out by chance (lets say someone from your unit sees you holding hands with a guy while on holiday) you still get kicked out of the military. What does sex has to do with anything?
Soldiers aren't allowed to have sex with each other while on duty and that was always the case. It's not like now gay soldiers are going to get king size beds to have sex on.
Social experimentation? Well, the experiment seemed to kinda work for other countries like Israel. You'd think America is the first one.
| 316 |
Obdicut Fri, Sep 23, 2011 4:36:51am |
re: #314 Udon
Yeah. Having gay people around is a social experiment that's lasted for thousands of years.
Turns out you get the best results when you don't persecute them.
| 317 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 4:51:32am |
re: #314 Udon
Social experimentation? Well, the experiment seemed to kinda work for other countries like Israel. You'd think America is the first one.
DADT and other gay-expulsion policy *was* the social experiment.
Same for Jim Crow, women as property, etc.
| 318 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:07:03am |
According to the Dead Louse blog, I'm a neo-Stalinist. Too bad my Stalinist detractors in Russia don't know that and think that I'm a paid American/Polish/Jewish shill that blackens the Great Leader's name for money.
Oh, and good day.
| 319 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:13:56am |
re: #318 Sergey Romanov
Troother-type mentality. Lol lord knows how many times I've been labeled a neocon Ford Foundation Cass Sunstein sayanim shill. No exaggeration. 9_9
| 320 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:17:44am |
| 321 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:21:27am |
re: #319 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Troother-type mentality. Lol lord knows how many times I've been labeled a neocon Ford Foundation Cass Sunstein sayanim shill. No exaggeration. 9_9
Even troofers are more intelligent than those folks. Many people believe in urban legends and various incorrect memes, this doesn't make these people stupid. It's the reaction to the new scholarship that revises or debunks the old "canons" that shows who is who. The ignorant turn against scholarship, the smart ones accept it. "What do you mean the earth is not flat?! Godless atheist!"
| 322 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:27:41am |
How to spin the TPGOP audience: GOProud launched an attack on Santorum without mentioning the reaction to the soldier's question.
[Link: www.goproud.org...]
| 323 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:32:28am |
re: #322 Decatur Deb
Lol are there ANY gay people in GOProud?
| 324 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:34:32am |
re: #321 Sergey Romanov
Funny you should mention that in your last sentence. I have always regarded troothers as failed evangelicals.
| 325 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:35:46am |
Morning.
Kind of funny. This will make wingnut heads explode...
Barack Obama as a Zionist Captain America on the cover of Maariv Magazine
| 326 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:41:44am |
re: #168 ProLifeLiberal
Okay, I have questions about the reputations of a Greek organization on my campus that is national. Any College Grads want to help?
I use to do volunteer work for a national Greek organization. Ask away. If I don't know anything off-hand I can talk to someone who probably has a more educated opinion*.
* - Current Executive Director of a fraternity and former college Greek Advisor.
| 327 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:46:00am |
re: #325 Gus 802
I hope that was not some kind of an ironic cover ;)
| 328 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:49:00am |
re: #325 Gus 802
Morning.
Kind of funny. This will make wingnut heads explode...
Barack Obama as a Zionist Captain America on the cover of Maariv Magazine
"This was said to be one of the most difficult weeks in the history of the State [of Israel]. Zion was suffering in the halls of the United Nations and no one to stand up for her. Then Barack Obama saved the day."
[I'm not positive about the accuracy of my translation, I'll have to ask Zedushka later this afternoon]
| 329 |
aagcobb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:49:00am |
Does anyone else think that if you take what frothy mix said literally, under his administration everyone would have to conceal their sexuality, and if a soldier came out as a heterosexual they would be expelled? That's how he made it sound as he attempted to appear "fair and balanced" rather than bigoted.
| 330 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:52:13am |
BTW, isn't Maariv right-wing?
| 331 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:52:35am |
re: #327 Sergey Romanov
I hope that was not some kind of an ironic cover ;)
I thought the same thing but thought otherwise after reading the description of Maariv and definitely not after reading Alouette's translation.
| 332 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:54:59am |
re: #330 Sergey Romanov
BTW, isn't Maariv right-wing?
The only right-wing Israel media sources are Jerusalem Post and Arutz Sheva, all the others are more or less leftist. YNet and Maariv are left, and Haaretz is LEFT LEFT LEFT, like further left than "The Guardian."
| 333 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:56:09am |
re: #323 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Lol are there ANY gay people in GOProud?
Probably more in GOPhabulous
| 334 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:57:23am |
Boy, this hotel sucks.
Just thought I'd share.
| 335 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 5:58:20am |
re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Boy, this hotel sucks.
Just thought I'd share.
She kick you out again? Was it the goat?
| 336 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:05:28am |
Watching coverage from the debate last night. Is Newt going for the "Taft" look? He needs to take better care of himself.
| 337 |
Lidane Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:05:40am |
Could someone explain this idiocy to me? My Wingnut-to-English translator is on the fritz:
Former IRS lawyer Michele Bachmann has an interesting approach to taxation: she thinks Americans should get to keep “every dollar” they earn, though she says the government needs to get money somehow.
| 338 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:07:32am |
re: #335 Decatur Deb
Yeah. She liked the goat better than me.
| 339 |
Lidane Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:08:31am |
Also, here's the post-debate spin addressing the boos against the gay soldier:
[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
| 340 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:14:27am |
re: #337 Lidane
Could someone explain this idiocy to me? My Wingnut-to-English translator is on the fritz:
She has to be one of the dumbest people in the world.
How does she expect her salary and healthcare to be paid? Or does she not think before she opens her stupid trap, cripes. Don't these people know there are tape recorders going?
| 341 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:17:41am |
re: #339 Lidane
Also, here's the post-debate spin addressing the boos against the gay soldier:
[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
I really expect some future debates to be held as a 'serious' event, without a pesky audience. These circuses are not very predictive of the primary outcomes, but they sure will be at play in the general election video.
| 342 |
Obdicut Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:27:05am |
re: #339 Lidane
I like this bit:
Johnson, who is not a social conservative, opposes the death penalty and supports the repeal of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, said that the angrier members of the audiences at the debates are not the whole of the GOP.
“In my opinion, when you have booing this is not indicative of Republicans,” he said. “This is not the Republican Party that I belong to.”
Yes it is. That's why you didn't say shit while you were on stage. That is the GOP that you belong to.
The GOP's party planks on gays are bigoted. Simply bigoted. That's the GOP. It's anti-gay. They run on it.
So if you belong to a GOP that's not anti-gay, there's a strong chance it's imaginary. That GOP guy who said "Fuck it" and supported gay marriage was bucking the entire flow of his party.
How can Johnson pretend that's not the reality of his party? It's great he thinks different, but in order to actually change it you'd have to acknowledge where it's at.
| 343 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:29:03am |
It's OK to boo a soldier if you have your hand over your heart.
| 344 |
Obdicut Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:31:36am |
re: #343 Decatur Deb
The GOP proved they have no compunctions about going after veterans when Swift Boaters were held to high acclaim instead of being castigated for the dishonorable pukes that they were. The purple heart bandaids were an utter disrespect to the honor, made even worse by the gross hypocrisy of those wearing them babbling about Kerry throwing away his medals.
| 345 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:33:53am |
re: #344 Obdicut
The GOP proved they have no compunctions about going after veterans when Swift Boaters were held to high acclaim instead of being castigated for the dishonorable pukes that they were. The purple heart bandaids were an utter disrespect to the honor, made even worse by the gross hypocrisy of those wearing them babbling about Kerry throwing away his medals.
The GOP moved from 'opposition' to 'chickenhawk pukes' when they went after Max Cleland's patriotism.
| 346 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:34:56am |
re: #339 Lidane
Also, here's the post-debate spin addressing the boos against the gay soldier:
[Link: 2012.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
This is the 3rd time in a row that the focus is on the ugly wingnut audience reaction. Somebody should notice this is a serious problem.
| 347 |
Daniel Ballard Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:35:29am |
Oh crap. Some fool has vandalized an Obama campaign office. The media is whipped up about a "shooting" of a window but it was a BB gun, not nearly so deadly. Still though this does not bode well. The partisan/wingnut anger is just beyond all reason and rationale.
Paged
| 348 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:36:40am |
re: #346 Killgore Trout
This is the 3rd time in a row that the focus is on the ugly wingnut audience reaction. Somebody should notice this is a serious problem.
Striptease of the GOP Soul.
| 349 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:36:53am |
House GOP Jams Senate With Government Funding Bill, Partisan Budget Cuts For Disaster Aid
House Republicans closed ranks just after midnight on Friday morning, and passed legislation to avert a government shutdown at the end of the month. The vote tally was 219-203.
But the bill received almost no Democratic support and faces an uncertain future in the U.S. Senate because Republicans have used the funding bill as a vehicle for disaster relief money, and insisted it be paid for by slashing funds for jobs programs Democrats support. Dems say the GOP legislation provides insufficient aid, and sets a dangerous precedent by requiring those funds to be offset with partisan budget cuts.
| 350 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:36:58am |
re: #343 Decatur Deb
It's OK to boo a soldier if you have your hand over your heart.
(spit)
Serious question given the prevalence of chicken hawks in the TP?GOP. I know Perry used to fly cargo for the Air Force. Are any of the others vets? My google-fu is failing this morning.
I won't even get started on their moral cowardice, due to the fact all of them have proven themselves equal in that.
| 351 |
RogueOne Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:37:06am |
re: #343 Decatur Deb
It's OK to boo a soldier if you have your hand over your heart.
I would have hoped someone sitting behind whatever idiot it was that booed would have slapped him in the back of his head. That didn't happen but at least people got on him:
[Link: www.slate.com...]
The person who booed was just a few rows in front of us. The booing got an immediate and angry reaction from nearly everyone sitting around him, who hissed and shushed at him. Lots of loud gasps, "Shhhh!" "No!" "Shut up, you idiot!" etc.
Santorum gave an awful answer to the question. I'm not sure what he's running for, he doesn't have a shot at winning a primary much less the nomination. He couldn't even win his own seat as an incumbent.
| 352 |
BongCrodny Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:41:19am |
re: #351 RogueOne
I would have hoped someone sitting behind whatever idiot it was that booed would have slapped him in the back of his head. That didn't happen but at least people got on him:
[Link: www.slate.com...]
Only one person booed?
| 353 |
aagcobb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:42:07am |
| 354 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:42:32am |
re: #334 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Boy, this hotel sucks.
Just thought I'd share.
Player piano playing all night long and into the morning. Sounds of guns firing as the saloon bellows sounds reminiscent of the Old West. Sounds of breaking chairs and fists upon glass jaws.
//
| 355 |
darthstar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:44:42am |
| 356 |
RogueOne Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:44:44am |
re: #352 BongCrodny
Watch the video. It doesn't sound like more than a couple to me. Either way it was disgusting enough that someone should have slapped them and someone on the stage should have called them out publicly.
| 357 |
RogueOne Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:45:29am |
re: #355 darthstar
Nobody applauded the active serviceman.
That would have been the appropriate response to the boos
| 358 |
darthstar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:46:35am |
re: #356 RogueOne
Watch the video. It doesn't sound like more than a couple to me. Either way it was disgusting enough that someone should have slapped them and someone on the stage should have called them out publicly.
The candidates are afraid of their own base. The fact that that question was given to Santorum (a non-candidate) in the first place shows that Fox wanted to keep it as far from Romney and Perry as possible. If there's another debate, they should all be asked that question...until one of them gets the answer right.
| 359 |
bratwurst Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:47:07am |
Just as with the cheering for the death of an uninsured sick person, it was obviously not the whole crowd...but it was also more than just one or two people.
| 360 |
BongCrodny Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:47:23am |
re: #356 RogueOne
Watch the video. It doesn't sound like more than a couple to me. Either way it was disgusting enough that someone should have slapped them and someone on the stage should have called them out publicly.
Agreed.
Why do you suppose they didn't?
I find the leadership quotient on that stage enormously lacking.
| 362 |
darthstar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:48:31am |
re: #360 BongCrodny
Agreed.
Why do you suppose they didn't?
I find the leadership quotient on that stage enormously lacking.
They. Fear. Their. Base.
It's a primary fight, not the general. They're playing to the lowest common denominator.
| 363 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:49:09am |
re: #359 bratwurst
Just as with the cheering for the death of an uninsured sick person, it was obviously not the whole crowd...but it was also more than just one or two people.
Yep. As far as I'm concerned the GOP and Fox News owns this. The booing of the active duty soldier is all over the news this morning. It's their baby and so far only Huntsman condemned this and that was after the fact.
| 364 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:49:15am |
re: #350 wlewisiii
(spit)
Serious question given the prevalence of chicken hawks in the TP?GOP. I know Perry used to fly cargo for the Air Force. Are any of the others vets? My google-fu is failing this morning.
I won't even get started on their moral cowardice, due to the fact all of them have proven themselves equal in that.
I'm having connection troubles too--several sites mention 'one other', but I can't determine who. Could even be Ron Paul.
| 365 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:50:43am |
And once again. For those wingnut homophobes that claim to support Israel... The IDF has been allowing gays in the military for a long time.
| 366 |
RogueOne Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:52:15am |
re: #358 darthstar
I don't think their base is the problem, at least not with DADT. It's not even close with white evangelicals. That's why it's more than a little disappointing that no one on the stage stepped up to say something:
[Link: voices.washingtonpost.com...]
_______Reps Evang.
Yes 81 75
No 7 15
| 367 |
BishopX Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:52:32am |
re: #350 wlewisiii
(spit)
Serious question given the prevalence of chicken hawks in the TP?GOP. I know Perry used to fly cargo for the Air Force. Are any of the others vets? My google-fu is failing this morning.
I won't even get started on their moral cowardice, due to the fact all of them have proven themselves equal in that.
Huntsman - no
Cain - Worked for the navy doing ballistics (as a civilian)
Newt - Np
Romney - No (and he Wikipedia paged needs to be cleaned up after his pr people vomited on it)
Bachmann - No
Paul - Flight surgeon 1963-5, air reserves until 68
Santorum - no
| 368 |
darthstar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:52:32am |
Getting to Santorum for a second...how the fuck did he ever learn to reproduce? He looks like someone threw an imaginary bucket of cooties at him...eww! ick! gay!
| 369 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:52:58am |
Oh. And the response from these assholes shouldn't be about the booing. They should not be defending or trying to explain this away. They should instead condemn it if that's the way they feel.
| 370 |
RogueOne Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:53:03am |
re: #360 BongCrodny
Agreed.
Why do you suppose they didn't?
I find the leadership quotient on that stage enormously lacking.
I have no idea. IMO, it was a safe call and the right one.
| 371 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:53:18am |
re: #364 Decatur Deb
I'm having connection troubles too--several sites mention 'one other', but I can't determine who. Could even be Ron Paul.
Ok, thanks. BBIAB, I gotta go do my Altar Guild duties.
| 372 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:54:26am |
re: #351 RogueOne
I would have hoped someone sitting behind whatever idiot it was that booed would have slapped him in the back of his head. That didn't happen but at least people got on him:
[Link: www.slate.com...]
Santorum gave an awful answer to the question. I'm not sure what he's running for, he doesn't have a shot at winning a primary much less the nomination. He couldn't even win his own seat as an incumbent.
Santorum rode a wave up and it already crashed.
He was an up-and-comer when he first got elected to the House (and was one of those "we're gonna change Washington" freshmen who got beat/bribed into line once he got there.) Area of SW Pennsylvania he represented was fairly conservative and he beat a 7-term Democrat Congressman (Walgren) who ran a piss-poor.
His district got gerrymandered by the Democrats to be something like 60% Democratic*. And he won re-election because the Democrats put up a hack to run against him thinking the election was in the bag.
He got to the Senate by winning the election in 1994 beating Wofford. Wofford was finishing out the term of John Heinz that he'd gotten by special election in 1991. And 1994 was the off-term election that gave the GOP the House and Senate (and Newt as SotH).
And he won re-election to the Senate in 2000 against Ron Klink - who was virtually unknown in eastern PA.
In the 1990s and 2000s PA was pretty much two Republican Senators (Spector and someone else) and the governorship switching back and forth every few terms because of term limitations.
*- That redistricting made him my representative at the time.
| 373 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:54:42am |
"Only one guy booed in the audience last night."
"So, do you defend this active duty soldier and honor his service regardless of him being gay?"
[crickets]
| 374 |
BongCrodny Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:55:22am |
re: #363 Gus 802
Yep. As far as I'm concerned the GOP and Fox News owns this. The booing of the active duty soldier is all over the news this morning. It's their baby and so far only Huntsman condemned this and that was after the fact.
I noticed that both Huntsman and Rick Perry's spokesman both used the word "unfortunate."
I'd like to think somebody would have used used stronger words than "unfortunate." As far as condemnations go, "unfortunate" seems rather mild.
| 375 |
RogueOne Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:55:39am |
re: #372 oaktree
Maybe he's holding out for a shot at VP. He doesn't have a chance at winning anything on his own.
| 376 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:56:15am |
re: #373 Gus 802
You know, in 10 years some of these people will look back and will see what bigoted jerks they were. (Some won't.)
| 377 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:56:26am |
re: #375 RogueOne
Maybe he's holding out for a shot at VP. He doesn't have a chance at winning anything on his own.
Prolly a cabinet position.
| 378 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:57:29am |
re: #374 BongCrodny
I noticed that both Huntsman and Rick Perry's spokesman both used the word "unfortunate."
I'd like to think somebody would have used used stronger words than "unfortunate." As far as condemnations go, "unfortunate" seems rather mild.
Saying that it was "unfortunate" is a self centered response. IOW, it's "unfortunate" that the whole world got to see the seamy underbelly of today's Republican Party?
| 379 |
RogueOne Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:57:46am |
re: #377 Cannadian Club Akbar
Prolly a cabinet position.
Maybe. I can't think of one that he'd be a good fit for though.
| 380 |
Obdicut Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:58:08am |
re: #377 Cannadian Club Akbar
He can be Secretary of the Miseducation department.
I'm starting to get worried. This bunch of buffoons has a real chance of being our leadership.
| 381 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:58:25am |
re: #376 Sergey Romanov
You know, in 10 years some of these people will look back and will see what bigoted jerks they were. (Some won't.)
Yep. Just think. We're still waiting for them to see what a bunch of jerks they were 47 years ago. As in 1964 if you know what I mean.
| 383 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 6:59:40am |
re: #381 Gus 802
That's what I meant too. I think a lot of oldtimers do think - "WTF was that?".
| 384 |
aagcobb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:00:59am |
re: #363 Gus 802
Yep. As far as I'm concerned the GOP and Fox News owns this. The booing of the active duty soldier is all over the news this morning. It's their baby and so far only Huntsman condemned this and that was after the fact.
He only joined the military so he could ogle real men in the showers!
| 385 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:00:59am |
re: #362 darthstar
They. Fear. Their. Base.
It's a primary fight, not the general. They're playing to the lowest common denominator.
You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.
/
| 386 |
Obdicut Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:02:42am |
re: #384 aagcobb
I love how the GOP lives in this world where it's so hard for gay guys to find men to ogle they have to join the military.
Ah, yeah, gay culture? Not really that inhibited. Plenty of places you can go if you just want to ogle.
It's like they've never met a real gay person, just crouched behind bushes and watched them.
| 387 |
darthstar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:03:01am |
Okay, so let's see what we've got for the Republican platform so far:
1. Cheering for executions...
2. "Let him die!" on health care...
3. Booing active servicemen (for being honest about their sexuality)
October 11 is the next debate...what will they do to make an impression next time?
| 388 |
darthstar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:03:42am |
re: #385 oaktree
You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.
/
Blazing Saddles should be aired simultaneously with every debate. It would make a perfect soundtrack.
| 389 |
Obdicut Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:03:54am |
re: #328 Alouette
Wow. Just saw that. That's pretty damn amazing.
| 390 |
Artist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:04:00am |
re: #387 darthstar
Okay, so let's see what we've got for the Republican platform so far:
1. Cheering for executions...
2. "Let him die!" on health care...
3. Booing active servicemen (for being honest about their sexuality)October 11 is the next debate...what will they do to make an impression next time?
I will not be surprised if it's going to be cheering for slavery.
| 391 |
Obdicut Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:04:32am |
re: #387 darthstar
Oh, and the stimulus didn't create a single job. Government can't create jobs, said by someone with a government job.
| 392 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:05:02am |
re: #388 darthstar
Blazing Saddles should be aired simultaneously with every debate. It would make a perfect soundtrack.
And CGI Obama's face onto the sheriff? That would set off all the right dog whistles.
| 393 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:05:42am |
re: #382 Obdicut
It's the weakest possible condemnation.
Yep. So it's unfortunate yet they're the very same people that create if not inspire an environment that leads to this kind of behavior. It gets even worse when one looks at the strong allies of the Republican Party with the American Family Association and comments from people like Tim Wildmon, Bryan Fischer, Tony Perkins especially. It is taught in their churches. There was reason we heard boos against this active duty soldier last night and it speaks to their ideology and superstitions.
| 394 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:07:03am |
re: #387 darthstar
Okay, so let's see what we've got for the Republican platform so far:
1. Cheering for executions...
2. "Let him die!" on health care...
3. Booing active servicemen (for being honest about their sexuality)October 11 is the next debate...what will they do to make an impression next time?
Rosa Parks will be invited, and seated in the back of the auditorium.
| 396 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:17:38am |
A belated good morning from very gray and rainy Philadelphia to all Lizards.
With the PA being all googly about getting a declaration of statehood (or is this simply a recognition of independent statehood already existing?) from the UN I do wonder how this jives with the constant propoganda blah blah blah about how the 1947 UN declared partition that created Israel as an independent state wasn't legal.
I expect that it's simply hypocrisy in action along with some hairsplitting to make this declaration "different" from the other one.
| 397 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:29:36am |
re: #321 Sergey Romanov
Even troofers are more intelligent than those folks. Many people believe in urban legends and various incorrect memes, this doesn't make these people stupid. It's the reaction to the new scholarship that revises or debunks the old "canons" that shows who is who. The ignorant turn against scholarship, the smart ones accept it. "What do you mean the earth is not flat?! Godless atheist!"
Apropos urban legends and incorrect memes: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 398 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:32:22am |
re: #397 000G
Apropos urban legends and incorrect memes: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Was there anything wrong with my comment?
| 399 |
aagcobb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:32:50am |
re: #386 Obdicut
I love how the GOP lives in this world where it's so hard for gay guys to find men to ogle they have to join the military.
Ah, yeah, gay culture? Not really that inhibited. Plenty of places you can go if you just want to ogle.
It's like they've never met a real gay person, just crouched behind bushes and watched them.
On the wingnut blogs you can tell who the closet cases are by their detailed fantasies of the gay rape that is going to occur in the barracks now.
| 400 |
lawhawk Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:37:57am |
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. I'm kinda late to the party here, but here's my 2 cents. It's symptomatic of the problems with the GOP and the crop of candidates that it and the TP have spawned that someone would be booed (by what sounded like IMO at least 3-4 people though it could have been more than that) for asking about DADT and its end. Even worse that the person being booed was a soldier and therefore would be in a position to be directly affected by any such change in policy.
That none of the candidates stood up for the questioner at the time and all otherwise deflected the question speaks volumes about where these candidates stand for equal rights and protection under the law.
This is not a winning issue for the GOP, no matter how much it seems to rile up the GOP base, as the booing would indicate that they don't want the subject discussed or disagree with the end of DADT. And I can only hope that moderators of the general debates keep this in mind when asking questions about the military, civil rights, and the application of Executive powers.
| 401 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:40:07am |
I saw Perry's excuse for not saying anything about the booing on Gus's page about this. He claims they were caught in a moment. What kind of shitty ass excuse is that. These people booed an active duty serviceman because he happens to be gay. I mean damn after years of being told I was somehow anti military and unpatriotic by the right because I happen to be a left winger this greatly amuses me that a Republican debate audience would actually boo a military member.
| 402 |
lawhawk Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:40:37am |
Damn... I missed this and it was in my own backyard. NASA scientist James Hansen was at Bergen Community College to talk about climate change and global warming and what to do about it:
On Thursday, Hansen called the cap-and-trade idea “cockamamie,” but he sounded some notes of hope that there might be movement on the issue in the national sphere. The best solution, Hansen said, would be a carbon tax, which the Obama administration has said is not politically viable.
“There’s a huge gap between rhetoric and reality,” Hansen said at the event, which was sponsored by the North Jersey Public Policy Network. “Politicians have learned to say the right words. … But they’re not actually taking any actions.”
Hansen has a long public history with the issue, sparring with administrations of both parties while looking for solutions.
In 2001, Hansen was invited to brief then-Vice President Dick Cheney, who was intrigued by Hansen’s opinion then that mitigating soot in the atmosphere should be prioritized over curbing carbon dioxide because it was cheaper and more effective. Three years later, Hansen came out publicly for Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. In 2006, he accused the Bush administration of trying to silence him after he gave a speech calling for cuts in greenhouse-gas emissions.
Since then, Hansen has retained his post at NASA while continuing to press for more national action on climate change, including a carbon tax. This approach has again put him at odds with the president, and Hansen was arrested while protesting in front of the White House in 2009.
Hansen said that a persistent gap between what scientists understood and what the public knew about the subject pushed him further into the public sphere, years after he made waves with his Congressional testimony.
| 403 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:41:48am |
re: #400 lawhawk
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. I'm kinda late to the party here, but here's my 2 cents. It's symptomatic of the problems with the GOP and the crop of candidates that it and the TP have spawned that someone would be booed (by what sounded like IMO at least 3-4 people though it could have been more than that) for asking about DADT and its end. Even worse that the person being booed was a soldier and therefore would be in a position to be directly affected by any such change in policy.
That none of the candidates stood up for the questioner at the time and all otherwise deflected the question speaks volumes about where these candidates stand for equal rights and protection under the law.
This is not a winning issue for the GOP, no matter how much it seems to rile up the GOP base, as the booing would indicate that they don't want the subject discussed or disagree with the end of DADT. And I can only hope that moderators of the general debates keep this in mind when asking questions about the military, civil rights, and the application of Executive powers.
If I was a betting man I say would those were probably Luap Nor supporters.
| 404 |
palomino Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:42:35am |
re: #401 HappyWarrior
I saw Perry's excuse for not saying anything about the booing on Gus's page about this. He claims they were caught in a moment. What kind of shitty ass excuse is that. These people booed an active duty serviceman because he happens to be gay. I mean damn after years of being told I was somehow anti military and unpatriotic by the right because I happen to be a left winger this greatly amuses me that a Republican debate audience would actually boo a military member.
Good point. Being "caught in a moment" isn't an excuse for a debater, at any level. The whole idea of having a debate is to see how a person thinks and responds on his feet, in a situation with some pressure. It's sort of a test for the presidency. Last night they all failed.
| 405 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:43:15am |
re: #403 NJDhockeyfan
If I was a betting man I say would those were probably Luap Nor supporters.
Why?
| 406 |
palomino Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:43:20am |
re: #403 NJDhockeyfan
If I was a betting man I say would those were probably Luap Nor supporters.
How can you tell?
| 407 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:44:43am |
re: #403 NJDhockeyfan
If I was a betting man I say would those were probably Luap Nor supporters.
Something about a Scotsman...
| 408 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:45:07am |
re: #403 NJDhockeyfan
If I was a betting man I say would those were probably Luap Nor supporters.
I think they're run-of-the-mill Republicans who hate gays and don't want them to have equal civil rights.
| 409 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:45:49am |
re: #406 palomino
How can you tell?
You can't tell but I see most of y'all have already blamed the GOP supporters for it. Ron Paul hasn't hidden his distaste for war or the military. I would assume his supporters feel the same way.
| 410 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:46:14am |
re: #408 iossarian
I think they're run-of-the-mill Republicans who hate gays and don't want them to have equal civil rights.
Right, gotcha.
/
| 411 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:46:49am |
re: #401 HappyWarrior
I saw Perry's excuse for not saying anything about the booing on Gus's page about this. He claims they were caught in a moment. What kind of shitty ass excuse is that. These people booed an active duty serviceman because he happens to be gay. I mean damn after years of being told I was somehow anti military and unpatriotic by the right because I happen to be a left winger this greatly amuses me that a Republican debate audience would actually boo a military member.
So true. Complain about the absurd fetishization of the military in contemporary America and you're a despicable traitor. Boo an active member of the military and you're just defending all that is good and true in the USA.
| 412 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:47:22am |
re: #410 NJDhockeyfan
Right, gotcha.
/
Name a Republican candidate for president who thinks that gays should have equal civil rights.
| 413 |
palomino Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:47:54am |
re: #408 iossarian
I think they're run-of-the-mill Republicans who hate gays and don't want them to have equal civil rights.
Gingrich, Bachmann and Santorum are certainly just as, if not more, anti-gay than Paul. In fact the only one up there who's not anti-gay is the ghost of Mitt Romney (when he was gov of MA, he was a big supporter of gay rights, but now he needs primary votes from all across the country.)
| 414 |
kirkspencer Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:48:09am |
re: #401 HappyWarrior
I saw Perry's excuse for not saying anything about the booing on Gus's page about this. He claims they were caught in a moment. What kind of shitty ass excuse is that. These people booed an active duty serviceman because he happens to be gay. I mean damn after years of being told I was somehow anti military and unpatriotic by the right because I happen to be a left winger this greatly amuses me that a Republican debate audience would actually boo a military member.
Had any single candidate on stage said something at the time to condemn those boos, I'd have said you were looking at the next president of the United States. 3 or 4 people booing in an audience of what, a hundred or so? And none of them had what it took to get in front of the majority?
Opportunity knocked and they barred the door.
| 415 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:48:14am |
re: #323 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Lol are there ANY gay people in GOProud?
People like Andrew Breitbart and Tammy Bruce, probably.
| 416 |
Lidane Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:48:23am |
Watching a Linux-fanboy IT pro with a long list of high-level certifications ranting because of a corporate Facebook profile that won't accept the new password he just created is hilarious. That is all.
It's a great Friday so far. How's it going, Lizards?
| 417 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:48:37am |
re: #409 NJDhockeyfan
You can't tell but I see most of y'all have already blamed the GOP supporters for it. Ron Paul hasn't hidden his distaste for war or the military. I would assume his supporters feel the same way.
Are you forgetting that Ron Paul himself served in our military? Also note the fact that they cheered when Santorum started going on and on about "special privileges" and crap like that. These were anti gays in the military people booing Stephen Hill not Paulites and I say that as someone who disdains Ron Paul.
| 418 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:48:46am |
| 419 |
lawhawk Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:49:08am |
re: #409 NJDhockeyfan
Whether they're supporters of an individual candidate is quite besides the point. The GOP has actively courted the social conservatives who are against DADT, gay rights generally, and it's a problem that can't merely be confined to a single candidate on that stage.
That none of the candidates would say anything about the booing should tell you that the GOP candidates - all of them - are trying to court that very audience segment through their silent assent.
None of them rose above the rancor to address the booing.
| 420 |
Obdicut Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:49:26am |
re: #409 NJDhockeyfan
Are you seriously claiming this guy was booed for being in the military, not for being gay?
| 421 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:49:44am |
What would Faux News be saying if a soldier had been booed by the audience during a Democratic debate?
| 422 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:50:08am |
re: #409 NJDhockeyfan
You can't tell but I see most of y'all have already blamed the GOP supporters for it. Ron Paul hasn't hidden his distaste for war or the military. I would assume his supporters feel the same way.
No shit? I wonder why.
So you're saying that Paul is anti-war, so therefore they boo a gay soldier. Ignorant of the fact that the entire GOP and majority of it's supporters as being anti-gay rights and heavily homophobic.
| 423 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:50:51am |
re: #409 NJDhockeyfan
You can't tell but I see most of y'all have already blamed the GOP supporters for it. Ron Paul hasn't hidden his distaste for war or the military. I would assume his supporters feel the same way.
Really? So the Republicans don't prostrate themselves to groups like American Family Values and Family Research Council? Bryan Fischer and Tony Perkins don't ring a bell? Let's see, what else. Oh right. It was a Fox News debate. The private news channel for the Republican Party? Actually, it was Ron Paul supporters who were supporting gays at the last CPAC -- even though Ron Paul has flip flopped on DADT himself. Sorry man but you're pulling a "no true Scotsman" here.
| 424 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:50:55am |
re: #412 iossarian
Name a Republican candidate for president who thinks that gays should have equal civil rights.
I don't know who does or doesn't. I've been working my ass off and haven't been watching the news. I missed last night's debate too.
| 425 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:51:08am |
re: #420 Obdicut
Are you seriously claiming this guy was booed for being in the military, not for being gay?
I don't know, do you?
| 426 |
lawhawk Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:51:21am |
re: #416 Lidane
Facebook's new format is asinine and that they don't allow users to kill bandwith hogs like that scroll on the side of the page makes no sense Whatsoever.
As if I need to see people are playing mafia wars or farmville 50x endless loops (or that others see me doing same?).
| 427 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:52:06am |
re: #421 iossarian
What would Faux News be saying if a soldier had been booed by the audience during a Democratic debate?
Pandemonium.
| 428 |
palomino Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:52:18am |
re: #409 NJDhockeyfan
You can't tell but I see most of y'all have already blamed the GOP supporters for it. Ron Paul hasn't hidden his distaste for war or the military. I would assume his supporters feel the same way.
What? Your statemtents make no sense.
First, it makes sense to blame "GOP supporters" for what happens at a GOP debate. And Ron Paul is in the GOP, so whether it was his supporters or someone else's, it reflects badly on the whole party. Moreover, no candidate bothered to even object to the booing. What courage.
Second, the booing wasn't because the guy's a soldier, it was because he's gay. Can you really not figure that out?
| 429 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:52:25am |
re: #424 NJDhockeyfan
I don't know who does or doesn't. I've been working my ass off and haven't been watching the news. I missed last night's debate too.
Ah, the "I don't pay attention to such things" gambit. A little-used variant of the "that's not a big voting issue for me" strategy.
| 430 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:53:35am |
I think it's clear they were booing him because he was gay. Listen to teh boos when he says he's gay and tells his story, and listen to the rousing ovation that Santorum gets when he talks about how allowing openly gay people to serve amounts to special privileges. These to me weren't anti military intervention Ron Paul fans booing a soldier, these were homophobic assholes booing a man because he's gay and their delusional thought that gays in the military will destroy the military. And in grudging defense of Ron Paul and his supporters who I make no secret of my disliking, the latter tend to be less homophobic than the others in my observation. Maybe it's because Paul supporters are by and large a younger crowd, I dunno.
| 431 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:54:23am |
re: #425 NJDhockeyfan
I don't know, do you?
Are you going to answer the question or not? Why do you think it was Paul supporters booing the gay soldier and not the unequivocally anti-gay and homophobic GOP?
Say what you really mean.
| 432 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:55:45am |
re: #413 palomino
Gingrich, Bachmann and Santorum are certainly just as, if not more, anti-gay than Paul. In fact the only one up there who's not anti-gay is the ghost of Mitt Romney (when he was gov of MA, he was a big supporter of gay rights, but now he needs primary votes from all across the country.)
If you work it a bit "Ghost of Mitt Romney" could be a worthy meme.
| 433 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:56:09am |
re: #431 BigPapa
Are you going to answer the question or not? Why do you think it was Paul supporters booing the gay soldier and not the unequivocally anti-gay and homophobic GOP?
Say what you really mean.
I think I answered that on #409.
| 434 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:56:16am |
re: #411 iossarian
So true. Complain about the absurd fetishization of the military in contemporary America and you're a despicable traitor. Boo an active member of the military and you're just defending all that is good and true in the USA.
It pisses me off man. I had right wingers tell me that I was somehow anti American for protesting the Iraq War and that old hippies like my Dad aided and abetted the enemy by protesting Vietnam. Shit pisses me off so much. Meanwhile these guys boo an active miltiary member. And there's guys like retired General Boykin who seem to think that non Christians should basically have second class status in our military. My cousin's husband, an atheist and former Marine corpsman, and guy who was in Gulf War I is somehow less a patriot to Boykin and those like him because he doesn't believe in God. Shame dicks they are.
| 435 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:59:30am |
re: #430 HappyWarrior
I think it's clear they were booing him because he was gay. Listen to teh boos when he says he's gay and tells his story, and listen to the rousing ovation that Santorum gets when he talks about how allowing openly gay people to serve amounts to special privileges. These to me weren't anti military intervention Ron Paul fans booing a soldier, these were homophobic assholes booing a man because he's gay and their delusional thought that gays in the military will destroy the military. And in grudging defense of Ron Paul and his supporters who I make no secret of my disliking, the latter tend to be less homophobic than the others in my observation. Maybe it's because Paul supporters are by and large a younger crowd, I dunno.
No. You're right. A lot, if not most, Ron Paul supporters are not homophobic... Or...
Ron Paul: Constituents changed my mind on 'don't ask, don't tell'
So why did Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.), after supporting "don't ask, don't tell" since its introduction in 1993, vote to begin the process to repeal it?
"I have received several calls and visits from constituents who, in spite of the heavy investment in their training, have been forced out of the military simply because they were discovered to be homosexual," Paul said Friday. "To me, this seems like an awful waste. Personal behavior that is disruptive should be subject to military discipline regardless of whether the individual is heterosexual or homosexual. But to discharge an otherwise well-trained, professional, and highly skilled member of the military for these reasons is unfortunate and makes no financial sense."
Paul's vote was the lone surprise among the five Republicans who bucked their party to vote for the amendment sponsored by Rep. Patrick Murphy (D-Penn.).
Paul voted for the repeal of DADT. The booing last night was not from Ron Paul supporters.
| 436 |
lawhawk Fri, Sep 23, 2011 7:59:34am |
re: #400 lawhawk
Oh and another thing about Equal Protection and equal rights under the law.
There's no qualifying words or limitations in the US Constitution about rights:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws
No person can be denied equal protection under the law - that it not limited because of someone's race, gender, or sexual orientation.
An originalist may try to claim that based on the context of the 14th at time of passage that they were referring to race, but that ignores the plain meaning of the words as used today - and to give weight to the words as written and their contextual use within the 14th - "any person" means just that - any person.
| 437 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:02:36am |
re: #433 NJDhockeyfan
I think I answered that on #409.
This was your answer?
Ron Paul hasn't hidden his distaste for war or the military. I would assume his supporters feel the same way.
So you're saying that the gay soldier got booed because he's in the military?
Which means, he didn't get booed because he's gay. Right?
| 438 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:03:22am |
re: #435 Gus 802
No. You're right. A lot, if not most, Ron Paul supporters are not homophobic... Or...
Ron Paul: Constituents changed my mind on 'don't ask, don't tell'
Paul voted for the repeal of DADT. The booing last night was not from Ron Paul supporters.
There you go, injecting facts into the debate.
| 439 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:04:14am |
re: #434 HappyWarrior
It pisses me off man. I had right wingers tell me that I was somehow anti American for protesting the Iraq War and that old hippies like my Dad aided and abetted the enemy by protesting Vietnam. Shit pisses me off so much. Meanwhile these guys boo an active miltiary member. And there's guys like retired General Boykin who seem to think that non Christians should basically have second class status in our military. My cousin's husband, an atheist and former Marine corpsman, and guy who was in Gulf War I is somehow less a patriot to Boykin and those like him because he doesn't believe in God. Shame dicks they are.
Protesting against any war is not anti-American at all. It's allowed and is one thing that puts this country far ahead of all the others.
This is anti-American and traitorous IMO.
| 440 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:04:59am |
| 441 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:05:04am |
re: #437 BigPapa
This was your answer?
So you're saying that the gay soldier got booed because he's in the military?
Which means, he didn't get booed because he's gay. Right?
I said I didn't know. It was my opinion. If you know something I don't know go ahead and tell me.
| 442 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:05:39am |
re: #435 Gus 802
No. You're right. A lot, if not most, Ron Paul supporters are not homophobic... Or...
Ron Paul: Constituents changed my mind on 'don't ask, don't tell'
Paul voted for the repeal of DADT. The booing last night was not from Ron Paul supporters.
I can't believe only five Republicans voted to repeal DADT in the House. That's uh pathetic. Anyhow that surprises me that Paul supported DADT for the longest time. Seems inconsistent with his whole philosophy. I mean I know he's not the consistent guy his supporters make him out to be but I am surprised to hear that nonetheless. I think the people booing Hill last night were IMO socons, the kind that are vital to the GOP base and have more influence on the party than Paul and his supporters do.
| 443 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:06:13am |
re: #440 iossarian
Haha. Whining about Jimmy Carter in 3... 2... 1...
I don't like that terrorist supporting anti-Semitic fool but I don't know what that has to do with anything.
| 444 |
Lidane Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:06:33am |
re: #439 NJDhockeyfan
Protesting against any war is not anti-American at all. It's allowed and is one thing that puts this country far ahead of all the others.
O RLY? Then explain why Fox News and the entire right wing howler monkey contingent spent eight goddamn years trashing anyone and everyone who protested Iraq and/or disagreed with the Bush administration as anti-American, terrorist sympathizing traitors who would sell this country out to Al Qaeda?
| 445 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:07:36am |
re: #439 NJDhockeyfan
Protesting against any war is not anti-American at all. It's allowed and is one thing that puts this country far ahead of all the others.
This is anti-American and traitorous IMO.
Oh please. Ummm. Being able to be against these things is an American value. You're comment is in fact anti-American. If you want people to fall in lock step to every American policy then perhaps you're thinking of the Soviet Union.
| 446 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:07:41am |
re: #441 NJDhockeyfan
I said I didn't know. It was my opinion. If you know something I don't know go ahead and tell me.
All the Republican candidates for President, with the possible exception of Ron Paul (whom you apparently deride) are fiercely opposed to the notion that gay people should have the same civil rights as gay people.
This makes them viable candidates in the primaries, because most Republicans are also opposed to this notion. Hence "run-of-the-mill Republicans". Ron Paul is many things but he is not run-of-the-mill.
So now you know. Please do not use this weak excuse again.
| 447 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:08:23am |
re: #444 Lidane
O RLY? Then explain why Fox News and the entire right wing howler monkey contingent spent eight goddamn years trashing anyone and everyone who protested Iraq and/or disagreed with the Bush administration as anti-American, terrorist sympathizing traitors who would sell this country out to Al Qaeda?
If you parse NJD's sentence, the only possible conclusion is that the right-wing media are anti-American.
| 448 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:08:33am |
Jane Fonda card!
OK, maybe I should go back to work. Seriously? Jane Fonda again?
Too much.
| 449 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:09:15am |
re: #444 Lidane
O RLY? Then explain why Fox News and the entire right wing howler monkey contingent spent eight goddamn years trashing anyone and everyone who protested Iraq and/or disagreed with the Bush administration as anti-American, terrorist sympathizing traitors who would sell this country out to Al Qaeda?
Right, that's the attitude I was talking about. Of course it's funny because these same people had no problem opposing Obama's foreign policy which is their right but damnit if I didn't see a lot of questioning whether it was patriotic to disagree with the president during war during hte Bush years. Funny how that's quieted some since the White House changed party hands.
| 450 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:09:39am |
Google has stopped giving me the 'cache' hot button on search returns. Is this a bug or a new feature?
| 451 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:11:18am |
re: #450 Decatur Deb
Google has stopped giving me the 'cache' hot button on search returns. Is this a bug or a new feature?
I noticed that the other day.
| 452 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:11:25am |
re: #448 Gus 802
Jane Fonda card!
OK, maybe I should go back to work. Seriously? Jane Fonda again?
Too much.
To be fair, when complaining about right-wing nuttiness, I often dig up the antics of 70s celebrities to reinforce my argument.
/
| 453 |
Lidane Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:11:39am |
re: #448 Gus 802
OK, maybe I should go back to work. Seriously? Jane Fonda again?
Too much.
For those of us who weren't even alive during Vietnam, this is Jane Fonda:
The rest of it is just something we read about in history class.
| 454 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:11:53am |
I got downdinged for calling Jimmy Carter what he is.
LOL!
| 455 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:11:56am |
re: #452 iossarian
To be fair, when complaining about right-wing nuttiness, I often dig up the antics of 70s celebrities to reinforce my argument.
/
Morton Downey? :)
| 456 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:12:07am |
re: #441 NJDhockeyfan
I said I didn't know. It was my opinion. If you know something I don't know go ahead and tell me.
What is your opinion based on?
I could say 'NJDhockeyfan murders kittens. I don't know, it's just my opinion.' People would say WTF, and I would say 'I don't know, it's just my opinion.'
Sounds like Mos Defian philosophy to me.
| 457 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:12:36am |
| 458 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:14:00am |
re: #453 Lidane
For those of us who weren't even alive during Vietnam, this is Jane Fonda:
[Video]The rest of it is just something we read about in history class.
Well I have to say she was in great shape back then. My mom bought that video, worked out with it a couple times, and let it collect dust after that. She wasn't into exercising much.
| 459 |
Artist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:14:52am |
re: #453 Lidane
For those of us who weren't even alive during Vietnam, this is Jane Fonda:
[Video]The rest of it is just something we read about in history class.
Didn't she also marry Ted Turner at some point?
| 460 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:15:49am |
I have to admit as someone who has studied the presidency the parts of the right whom make Carter in to a boogeyman for all things left and the left who wants to reincarnate President Carter as the "last liberal president" amuse me. I mean there's a reason why Teddy Kennedy challenged Carter in 1980 and it obviously wasn't because Teddy thought Jimmy was too liberal heh.
| 461 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:16:00am |
re: #453 Lidane
For those of us who weren't even alive during Vietnam, this is Jane Fonda:
[Video]The rest of it is just something we read about in history class.
That space is on Maiden Lane in San Francisco. I worked in an office that used that same location. Well, they owned the building too.
| 462 |
KingKenrod Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:16:27am |
re: #436 lawhawk
Oh and another thing about Equal Protection and equal rights under the law.
There's no qualifying words or limitations in the US Constitution about rights:
No person can be denied equal protection under the law - that it not limited because of someone's race, gender, or sexual orientation.
An originalist may try to claim that based on the context of the 14th at time of passage that they were referring to race, but that ignores the plain meaning of the words as used today - and to give weight to the words as written and their contextual use within the 14th - "any person" means just that - any person.
Reading the amendment, I note that it is a restriction on the States, not the Federal government. The Feds can deny its own granted rights and privileges to citizens, as long as they don't run afoul of other parts of the Constitution. Or do I have that wrong?
| 463 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:17:03am |
re: #454 NJDhockeyfan
I got downdinged for calling Jimmy Carter what he is.
LOL!
No, you did not get downdinged for calling Carter 'what he really is.' I have a feeling you would either reject or not understand why you were downdinged so it's probably not worth the time.
| 464 |
palomino Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:17:36am |
re: #439 NJDhockeyfan
Protesting against any war is not anti-American at all. It's allowed and is one thing that puts this country far ahead of all the others.
This is anti-American and traitorous IMO.
Geez, that was 41 years ago. Get over it. Her acting career is virtually non-existent now, she's ancient history.
| 465 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:17:41am |
re: #463 BigPapa
No, you did not get downdinged for calling Carter 'what he really is.' I have a feeling you would either reject or not understand why you were downdinged so it's probably not worth the time.
Probably not.
| 466 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:18:43am |
FrumForum is asking an existential question: "Who Controls the GOP?"
Hah.
[Link: www.frumforum.com...]
| 467 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:19:15am |
Booing active duty soldiers... blaming Ron Paul supporters... Vietnam War... Jane Fonda... Jimmy Carter... to antisemitism...
Erm... wut?
| 468 |
Mocking Jay Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:20:57am |
re: #467 Gus 802
Booing active duty soldiers... blaming Ron Paul supporters... Vietnam War... Jane Fonda... Jimmy Carter... to antisemitism...
Erm... wut?
Writing "We Didn't Start the Fire" part 2?
| 469 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:21:06am |
re: #467 Gus 802
Booing active duty soldiers... blaming Ron Paul supporters... Vietnam War... Jane Fonda... Jimmy Carter... to antisemitism...
Erm... wut?
To be fair I brought up Vietnam when I brought up how I hated the fact that every Vietnam War protester was accused of "aiding and abetting".
| 470 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:21:08am |
re: #467 Gus 802
Booing active duty soldiers... blaming Ron Paul supporters... Vietnam War... Jane Fonda... Jimmy Carter... to antisemitism...
Erm... wut?
The dance of the seven figleaves.
| 471 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:21:52am |
re: #466 Decatur Deb
FrumForum is asking an existential question: "Who Controls the GOP?"
Hah.[Link: www.frumforum.com...]
Conclusion....
McCain’s ’08 candidacy offered some hope for a power shift inside the party that could have begun to improve matters. His failure left the GOP at the mercy of its darkest impulses. In its wake have come the Tea Party, the Birthers, and a whole sweeping movement away from reality-based politics.
The party will recover at some point because it must. People who value reason over passion, truth over fantasy, reality over propaganda, in other words – responsible adults – will at some point regain some influence. But in the meantime the country is paying a price. One day we will have to clean up the wreckage, but for now the damage continues to pile up.
Sadly, it's not going to happen anytime soon. I don't see much light at the end of the tunnel.
| 472 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:22:09am |
...The former president said peace in the Middle East would only come if Israel would “withdraw from the occupied territories and that’s something that so far the Israeli government has been unable to do.”
| 473 |
RealityBasedSteve Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:22:25am |
The Wingnuts over at FreeRepublic are there usual rational selves about this. I've been banned so many time without even my first posting showing up that I'd hate to cause them more cognitive dissidence by pointing out that Israel, the country that can do NO wrong in their eyes, who's military is the sword of God in their eyes, has had acknowledged gay and lesbian service members since 1993.
Steve
| 474 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:23:29am |
It seems Perry was the big loser last night. The wingnuts seem to have noticed he's unelectable.
| 475 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:24:10am |
re: #473 RealityBasedSteve
The Wingnuts over at FreeRepublic are there usual rational selves about this. I've been banned so many time without even my first posting showing up that I'd hate to cause them more cognitive dissidence by pointing out that Israel, the country that can do NO wrong in their eyes, who's military is the sword of God in their eyes, has had acknowledged gay and lesbian service members since 1993.
Steve
I am glad you pointed that out. I point that all the time to right wingers who talk about how they love Israel and the Israeli people yet completely ignore that the Israel did that. I point out that the British and Canadians do too. Though the Canadians doing anything doesn't seem to matter to people like that since they're like the American ambasador in the South PArk movie- "Fuck Canada."
| 476 |
wrenchwench Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:25:26am |
re: #471 Killgore Trout
Conclusion...
Sadly, it's not going to happen anytime soon. I don't see much light at the end of the tunnel.
I kinda feel sorry for Frum. He's been wrestling with this for years now. He just can't face the reality of today's GOP.
If he keeps struggling instead of facing it much longer, my sympathy will erode to zero.
| 477 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:27:33am |
re: #475 HappyWarrior
I am glad you pointed that out. I point that all the time to right wingers who talk about how they love Israel and the Israeli people yet completely ignore that the Israel did that. I point out that the British and Canadians do too. Though the Canadians doing anything doesn't seem to matter to people like that since they're like the American ambasador in the South PArk movie- "Fuck Canada."
That's because to most Americans Canada is just the snowy roof that keeps the Russkies out and provides the occasional entertainer.
/
| 478 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:28:54am |
re: #474 Killgore Trout
It seems Perry was the big loser last night. The wingnuts seem to have noticed he's unelectable.
I agree with that.
| 479 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:28:56am |
re: #467 Gus 802
Booing active duty soldiers... blaming Ron Paul supporters... Vietnam War... Jane Fonda... Jimmy Carter... to antisemitism...
Erm... wut?
Mos Defianism. Don't fight it: you'll get drug down to that level then bludgeoned by your opponent's experience.
| 480 |
Lidane Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:30:32am |
re: #474 Killgore Trout
It seems Perry was the big loser last night. The wingnuts seem to have noticed he's unelectable.
I wish the voters here in Texas would notice that. It'd be nice to finally get him the hell out of the governor's mansion. =P
| 481 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:32:35am |
Politico thinks Mitt has found his campaign theme:
'There are a lot of reasons not to elect me'
[Link: www.politico.com...]
| 482 |
TNChuckster Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:32:55am |
re: #462 KingKenrod
when they talk about 'inalienable rights', those are natural rights we all have. The government cannot take away your right to free speech, they didn't grant it in the first place.
| 483 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:33:12am |
re: #464 palomino
Geez, that was 41 years ago. Get over it. Her acting career is virtually non-existent now, she's ancient history.
Fonda/Viet Nam: Never Forget
| 484 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:35:07am |
re: #483 BigPapa
Fonda/Viet Nam: Never Forget
She's an embarrassment. We're Democrats, we swim through embarrassment like a trout through a mountain stream.
| 485 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:35:08am |
re: #409 NJDhockeyfan
You can't tell but I see most of y'all have already blamed the GOP supporters for it. Ron Paul hasn't hidden his distaste for war or the military. I would assume his supporters feel the same way.
You are kidding yourself. Paulians don't really give a shit about gay rights. They are not against them nor really for them, either.
The GOPers who booed were clearly more of the Freeper kind.
| 486 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:37:59am |
re: #484 Decatur Deb
She's an embarrassment. We're Democrats, we swim through embarrassment like a trout through a mountain stream.
I think it's hilarious that posters who would be horrified to have some LGF comments from a couple of years ago dug up are happy to define someone by a single event over 30 years ago.
| 487 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:38:31am |
re: #485 000G
You are kidding yourself. Paulians don't really give a shit about gay rights. They are not against them nor really for them, either.
The GOPers who booed were clearly more of the Freeper kind.
That's possible. They are the fringe part of the right. It's been a while since I visited their website.
| 488 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:40:33am |
re: #487 NJDhockeyfan
That's possible. They are the fringe part of the right. It's been a while since I visited their website.
These debate auditorium seats are hand-picked plums. Isn't that worrisome?
| 489 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:41:16am |
re: #487 NJDhockeyfan
That's possible. They are the fringe part of the right. It's been a while since I visited their website.
No, no, please, my sides.
Fringe?
What's the "mainstream" Republican view right now on abortion, gay rights, single parenthood etc.?
Fringe my bottom.
| 490 |
Lidane Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:42:03am |
re: #481 Decatur Deb
Politico thinks Mitt has found his campaign theme:
'There are a lot of reasons not to elect me'
[Link: www.politico.com...]
If he gets the nomination, expect a series of ads with the soundbite of him saying that, followed by some variation of "We agree."
| 491 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:43:07am |
re: #487 NJDhockeyfan
That's possible. They are the fringe part of the right. It's been a while since I visited their website.
You haven't been paying attention. They are not the fringe: they are a significant minority if not a majority. Freepers are the GOP, not a teeny part of the GOP.
| 494 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:44:53am |
Fringe:
@thinkprogress ThinkProgress
UPDATE: Boehner holding disaster funding hostage to more partisan spending cuts. Reid not paying the ransom.
| 495 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:45:30am |
re: #430 HappyWarrior
And in grudging defense of Ron Paul and his supporters who I make no secret of my disliking, the latter tend to be less homophobic than the others in my observation. Maybe it's because Paul supporters are by and large a younger crowd, I dunno.
Make no mistake: Ron Paul has explicitly stated that he supports the rights of States to criminialize specific sexual conduct, of course including homosexual conduct:
Consider the Lawrence case decided by the Supreme Court in June. The Court determined that Texas had no right to establish its own standards for private sexual conduct, because gay sodomy is somehow protected under the 14th amendment “right to privacy.” Ridiculous as sodomy laws may be, there clearly is no right to privacy nor sodomy found anywhere in the Constitution. There are, however, states' rights — rights plainly affirmed in the Ninth and Tenth amendments. Under those amendments, the State of Texas has the right to decide for itself how to regulate social matters like sex, using its own local standards. But rather than applying the real Constitution and declining jurisdiction over a properly state matter, the Court decided to apply the imaginary Constitution and impose its vision on the people of Texas.
[Link: www.lewrockwell.com...]
Paulbots generally don't give a shit, though. I figure they are too high most of the time to realize that they support a paleo-socon theocrat who doesn't give a fuck about the SCOTUS (from the above linked article):
The real tragedy is that our founders did not intend a separation of church and state, and never envisioned a rigidly secular public life for America. They simply wanted to prevent Congress from establishing a state religion, as England had. The First amendment says “Congress shall make no law” — a phrase that cannot possibly be interpreted to apply to the city of San Diego.
Furthermore:
The notion of a rigid separation between church and state has no basis in either the text of the Constitution or the writings of our Founding Fathers. On the contrary, our Founders' political views were strongly informed by their religious beliefs. Certainly the drafters of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, both replete with references to God, would be aghast at the federal government's hostility to religion. The establishment clause of the First Amendment was simply intended to forbid the creation of an official state church like the Church of England, not to drive religion out of public life.
The Founding Fathers envisioned a robustly Christian yet religiously tolerant America, with churches serving as vital institutions that would eclipse the state in importance. Throughout our nation's history, churches have done what no government can ever do, namely teach morality and civility. Moral and civil individuals are largely governed by their own sense of right and wrong, and hence have little need for external government. This is the real reason the collectivist Left hates religion: Churches as institutions compete with the state for the people's allegiance, and many devout people put their faith in God before their faith in the state. Knowing this, the secularists wage an ongoing war against religion, chipping away bit by bit at our nation's Christian heritage. Christmas itself may soon be a casualty of that war.
[Link: www.lewrockwell.com...]
| 496 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:46:30am |
re: #491 BigPapa
You haven't been paying attention. They are not the fringe: they are a significant minority if not a majority. Freepers are the GOP, not a teeny part of the GOP.
Right, just like the racists and anti-Semites at HuffPo are the 'significant minority if not a majority' of the Democrats.
| 497 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:46:58am |
re: #484 Decatur Deb
She's an embarrassment. We're Democrats, we swim through embarrassment like a trout through a mountain stream.
That was a long time ago, and she's really not relevant to politics. Some Viet Nam vets still have a visceral reaction to her and I understand that. However, for the rest of us, the Fonda/Never Forget meme is a cheap rhetorical cudgel. I don't think today's liberals need to feel any shame for Fonda's stunt 40 years ago.
| 498 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:48:04am |
re: #496 NJDhockeyfan
Right, just like the racists and anti-Semites at HuffPo are the 'significant minority if not a majority' of the Democrats.
So um. HuffPo is equal to a nationally televised Republican presidential debate?
| 499 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:48:30am |
re: #496 NJDhockeyfan
Right, just like the racists and anti-Semites at HuffPo are the 'significant minority if not a majority' of the Democrats.
The only difference being that the Freepers have all of their policy points firmly accepted by the current candidates for President, whereas the HuffPo people have none.
I accept, it's a small difference (100% vs. 0%), but a difference none the less, I'm sure you'll agree.
| 500 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:49:17am |
re: #435 Gus 802
No. You're right. A lot, if not most, Ron Paul supporters are not homophobic... Or...
Ron Paul: Constituents changed my mind on 'don't ask, don't tell'
Paul voted for the repeal of DADT. The booing last night was not from Ron Paul supporters.
Heh. Lookie there…
| 501 |
The Left Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:50:00am |
re: #498 Gus 802
So um. HuffPo is equal to a nationally televised Republican presidential debate?
Heh.
| 502 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:50:07am |
re: #493 Gus 802
Fringe:
@TPM Talking Points Memo
Romney declares war on small classroom sizes and those darn teachers unions who love them: [Link: t.co...]
Romney's a jackass. Small classrooms are good for students. Anyone who actually understands education even a little knows that. But Mitt thinks this is just about the teachers unions.
| 504 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:51:08am |
re: #497 BigPapa
That was a long time ago, and she's really not relevant to politics. Some Viet Nam vets still have a visceral reaction to her and I understand that. However, for the rest of us, the Fonda/Never Forget meme is a cheap rhetorical cudgel. I don't think today's liberals need to feel any shame for Fonda's stunt 40 years ago.
I got out of the Army in '67 and started anti-war stuff in '68, so she's an embarrassment now and an obstacle then.
| 505 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:51:44am |
Ow Gawd, this guy is a real sick bastard:
John Mearsheimer Endorses a Hitler Apologist and Holocaust Revisionist
Gilad Atzmon is a jazz saxophonist who lives in London and who has a side gig disseminating the wildest sort of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. He is an ex-Israeli and a self-proclaimed "self-hater" who traffics in Holocaust denial and all sorts of grotesque, medieval anti-Jewish calumnies.
...Atzmon also believes that the Jews persecuted Hitler
...He has also suggested that Jews specialize in the trafficking of body parts
...Atzmon is quite obviously a twisted and toxic hater. His antisemitism is so blatant that activists of the so-called BDS movement (boycott, divestment and sanctions), which seeks the elimination of Israel, refuse to have anything to do with him. But Atzmon still has at least one friend among anti-Israel activists: The R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science at the University of Chicago, and co-author of "The Israel Lobby," John J. Mearsheimer.
Rather unbelievably (or believably, depending on where you sit) Mearsheimer has written an endorsement of Atzmon's new book, "The Wandering Who?"
...In this new book, Atzmon suggests, among other things, that scholars should reopen the question of medieval blood libels leveled against Jews-- accusations that Jews used the blood of Christian children to make matzo, and which provoked countless massacres of Jews in many different countries.
It gets worse if you have the stomach to read the rest.
| 506 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:52:18am |
re: #496 NJDhockeyfan
Right, just like the racists and anti-Semites at HuffPo are the 'significant minority if not a majority' of the Democrats.
YeahButWhatAboutThem-ism.
You think Freepers are the 'fringe' but it's been pretty clear they are not the fringe, they are a significant part of the GOP. You're in denial, that's why you blame a bunch of fucking homophobic bigots booing a gay soldier at a Fox News sponsored GOP 'debate' as 'probably Paulbots' even though that's your opinion and can't explain why that's your opinion.
The GOP if a putrid mess of a political ideology. Leave the cult dude, you'll feel better after deprogramming.
| 507 |
The Left Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:52:31am |
re: #503 Gus 802
Earth First! John Kerry!
//
let's talk about kerry and jane fonda! Pay no attention to the calender! We're embarking on a magikal voyage through time!/
| 508 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:52:34am |
re: #442 HappyWarrior
Seems inconsistent with his whole philosophy. I mean I know he's not the consistent guy his supporters make him out to be but I am surprised to hear that nonetheless.
Then you haven't been paying that much attention: Ron Paul is a conman, not a libertarian. The "principled" stick is part of his con.
| 509 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:53:16am |
I guess it would have been political suicide for one of the candidates to say, "What kind of patriot boos any American Soldier currently serving his country?"
That says something about that crowd. I want nothing to do with them.
| 510 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:53:30am |
re: #508 000G
Then you haven't been paying that much attention: Ron Paul is a conman, not a libertarian. The "principled" stick is part of his con.
I know he's not a real libertarian but it still surprised me he supported DADT.
| 511 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:53:51am |
re: #502 HappyWarrior
Romney's a jackass. Small classrooms are good for students. Anyone who actually understands education even a little knows that. But Mitt thinks this is just about the teachers unions.
I agree up to a point. I think the "small class == better education" argument works in some cases (e.g., 40 students vs. 25 students to a class) but may break down somewhat at lower numbers (25 vs. 20 or 20 vs. 15), where the benefit of a smaller class might be outweighed by other factors (teacher time allocation, availability of "special" teachers, etc.).
If you've got a fixed budget, it may be that you're better off paying teachers more, or giving teachers more prep time, or whatever, than simply going for the smallest possible class size.
But, of course, people voting Republican are not aiming to maximize educational outcomes - they're aiming to reduce the cost of education so that they can keep more of their "hard-earned money".
| 512 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:54:06am |
re: #507 iceweasel
let's talk about kerry and jane fonda! Pay no attention to the calender! We're embarking on a magikal voyage through time!/
It's 2008 all over again. Forget the booing. Forget the cheering of executions. Forget the calls for letting people without health insurance die. It's all about Jane Fonda and Jimmy Carter man!
Look at the birdie!
| 513 |
Lidane Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:54:09am |
re: #508 000G
Then you haven't been paying that much attention: Ron Paul is a conman, not a libertarian. The "principled" stick is part of his con.
Yep. He's about as sincere in his "principled libertarian" stance as Pat Paulsen was in running for POTUS.
| 514 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:55:15am |
re: #508 000G
Then you haven't been paying that much attention: Ron Paul is a conman, not a libertarian. The "principled" stick is part of his con.
That's our Ron Paul all right!
[Ron] Paul doesn’t just support pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan, but wants to close U.S. bases all across the globe. He not only wants to withdraw all foreign aid, and end our “entangled alliance” with Israel, but he’s spoken out against Israel’s efforts to defend its citizens against terrorist groups. When Israel invaded Gaza to prevent Hamas rocket attacks in 2009, Paul recorded a video calling it a ‘sad day for the whole world.’ He said Palestinians were living in a ‘concentration camp’ (a thinly-veiled attempt to liken Israelis to Nazis) and said terrorists had just ‘a few small missiles.’ Well, try telling that to the Israelis whose daily lives were being disrupted by thousands of missiles being aimed at houses, schools, bus stations, hospitals, grocery stores and other civilian locations at random moments, with only seconds of notice.
| 516 |
The Left Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:55:24am |
re: #512 Gus 802
It's 2008 all over again. Forget the booing. Forget the cheering of executions. Forget the calls for letting people without health insurance die. It's all about Jane Fonda and Jimmy Carter man!
Look at the birdie!
I propose we use "Look at the birdie" throughout this election season, to signal the use of old tropes by wingnuts.
| 517 |
laZardo Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:55:24am |
Morning folks. Checked out twitter and apparently the LGF stalkers are finally aware of my existence.
I'VE NEVER BEEN SO HAPPY IN MY LIFE.
;p
| 520 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:57:01am |
| 522 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:57:09am |
re: #466 Decatur Deb
FrumForum is asking an existential question: "Who Controls the GOP?"
Hah.[Link: www.frumforum.com...]
More like "what".
A: resentment
| 523 |
The Left Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:57:39am |
re: #520 iossarian
He eats food! But he thinks YOU shouldn't be ALLOWED to eat food!!!
Lol, that's almost exactly what they say about Michelle Obama.
| 524 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:57:43am |
re: #513 Lidane
Yep. He's about as sincere in his "principled libertarian" stance as Pat Paulsen was in running for POTUS.
He scores high or wins a lot of polls but always fails in getting many actual votes during a presidential election.
| 526 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:57:57am |
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
OT, but I crack me up.
| 527 |
Achilles Tang Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:58:08am |
I'm sure this has already been pointed out in the previous 500 posts, but Santorum obviously contradicts himself by saying sex or orientation should not be an issue, and then claims that gays want special privileges when all they want is the same recognition as heterosexuals, and he then finishes by saying he will discriminate based on sexual orientation by discharging anyone found to be gay.
One can't expect better from him and his idiot audience, but we should expect better from those posing the questions, when they let something so obvious pass.
| 528 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:58:16am |
re: #511 iossarian
I agree up to a point. I think the "small class == better education" argument works in some cases (e.g., 40 students vs. 25 students to a class) but may break down somewhat at lower numbers (25 vs. 20 or 20 vs. 15), where the benefit of a smaller class might be outweighed by other factors (teacher time allocation, availability of "special" teachers, etc.).
If you've got a fixed budget, it may be that you're better off paying teachers more, or giving teachers more prep time, or whatever, than simply going for the smallest possible class size.
But, of course, people voting Republican are not aiming to maximize educational outcomes - they're aiming to reduce the cost of education so that they can keep more of their "hard-earned money".
I agree with that. The problem is that many Republican candidates and voters seem to care about what you said below along with weakening public education and strengthening private schools via vouchers. I am not automatically opposed to vouchers for what it's worth, however as a large majority of American schoolchildren attend public schools, we should be focused on making our schools a healthy learning environment and focus on public schools since after all our tax dollars fund them.
| 529 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 8:58:44am |
Ah, the CarterKerry Sundae with a Fonda cherry on top.
A classic Never Forget dessert.
| 534 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:02:02am |
re: #528 HappyWarrior
I agree with that. The problem is that many Republican candidates and voters seem to care about what you said below along with weakening public education and strengthening private schools via vouchers. I am not automatically opposed to vouchers for what it's worth, however as a large majority of American schoolchildren attend public schools, we should be focused on making our schools a healthy learning environment and focus on public schools since after all our tax dollars fund them.
Somehow, i suspect, 'vouchers' doesn't mean the same thing in Wisconsin and Vermont as it does in Alabama and Mississippi.
| 535 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:02:03am |
I heard Markos is a love child of Abbie Hoffman and Fonda.
I don't believe it, but I'm just asking questions...
| 536 |
iossarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:02:48am |
re: #528 HappyWarrior
I agree with that. The problem is that many Republican candidates and voters seem to care about what you said below along with weakening public education and strengthening private schools via vouchers. I am not automatically opposed to vouchers for what it's worth, however as a large majority of American schoolchildren attend public schools, we should be focused on making our schools a healthy learning environment and focus on public schools since after all our tax dollars fund them.
Vouchers are a tax cut, pure and simple. A targeted one, but a tax cut nonetheless. The beneficiaries are those people who have kids in private schools. Ergo, a tax cut for the wealthy.
Flexibility in choosing schools achieves pretty much the same thing, but favors poor people a bit more. Which is why the GOP supports measures such as jailing the (low-income) woman in Cleveland who tried to put her kid in the next school over. Because we can't have educational opportunity if it benefits the poor!
| 537 |
The Left Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:02:53am |
re: #533 Gus 802
...
Code Pink! ANSWER! La Raza! ACOOOOOOOOOOORN!
Wingnut stream of consciousness is easy to write, painful to think.
| 538 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:03:13am |
re: #535 BigPapa
I heard Markos is a love child of Abbie Hoffman and Fonda.
I don't believe it, but I'm just asking questions...
Yeah. I heard he listen to Dixie Chicks and eats French fries as opposed to Freedom Fries!
//2003
//
| 540 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:03:25am |
re: #533 Gus 802
Sean Penn
The Great Salt and Pepper Satan, just sayin...
All Your Memes Are Belong To Us
| 541 |
The Left Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:03:42am |
re: #538 Gus 802
Yeah. I heard he listen to Dixie Chicks and eats French fries as opposed to Freedom Fries!
//2003
//
2003 FOREVER!1!
| 542 |
laZardo Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:04:04am |
re: #537 iceweasel
Wingnut stream of consciousness is easy to write, painful to think.
GOLD STANDARD!
| 543 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:04:05am |
re: #537 iceweasel
Wingnut stream of consciousness is easy to write, painful to think.
...
La Raza is teh just like the Klu Klutz Klan I tells ya!
Eleventy!
| 544 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:04:52am |
re: #538 Gus 802
Yeah. I heard he listen to Dixie Chicks and eats French fries as opposed to Freedom Fries!
//2003
//
Wish I could like the Dixie Chicks--can never hold my head up at cell meetings.
| 545 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:05:03am |
re: #536 iossarian
Vouchers are a tax cut, pure and simple. A targeted one, but a tax cut nonetheless. The beneficiaries are those people who have kids in private schools. Ergo, a tax cut for the wealthy.
Flexibility in choosing schools achieves pretty much the same thing, but favors poor people a bit more. Which is why the GOP supports measures such as jailing the (low-income) woman in Cleveland who tried to put her kid in the next school over. Because we can't have educational opportunity if it benefits the poor!
I have to admit I haven't really studied the issue. The problem I have of course is the GOP seems to have many candidates and we've seen them quoted here on LGF as having disdain for public schools. Are public schools perfect? No, but that means we should strengthen them not weaken them. And I think many Republicans like Romney don't get that or pander to people who don't.
| 546 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:05:21am |
Really? nobody but Decatur... oh well. Back to the drawing board.
| 547 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:05:42am |
re: #528 HappyWarrior
I agree with that. The problem is that many Republican candidates and voters seem to care about what you said below along with weakening public education and strengthening private schools via vouchers. I am not automatically opposed to vouchers for what it's worth, however as a large majority of American schoolchildren attend public schools, we should be focused on making our schools a healthy learning environment and focus on public schools since after all our tax dollars fund them.
Maybe their goal is nice vouchers to send their white bread children to schools with workable class sizes and educational potential while the "other" children get sent to large-class underfunded public schools where the sole goal will become social control, teaching obedience, and education based on maintaining the status quo since the texts will say we were always at war with East Asia.
And I watched the restored "Metropolis" again the other day. It's a cautionary tale, not a blueprint...
| 548 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:06:15am |
re: #510 HappyWarrior
I know he's not a real libertarian but it still surprised me he supported DADT.
Why were you surprised?
| 549 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:06:24am |
re: #509 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I just watched the video... See the guns on that dude?
Total bad-ass.
| 550 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:06:40am |
Oh, Dixie Chicks Ding. When CD burning melting became patriotic.
| 551 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:07:35am |
re: #548 000G
Why were you surprised?
I thought he would have felt that the government should stay out of something like that. I don't like the guy at all but I thought he would have felt that way.
| 552 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:07:42am |
re: #546 imp_62
Really? nobody but Decatur... oh well. Back to the drawing board.
Dinged for the perceived irony in the headline, but the link-through seems to have moved on to other news.
| 553 |
Kronocide Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:08:13am |
Nothing like a good MEMESTORM!!! to start off the day. #Winning
| 554 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:08:35am |
re: #550 BigPapa
Oh, Dixie Chicks Ding. When CD
burningmelting became patriotic.
Imagine what the cognitive dissonance would have been if the Dixie Chicks had printed Confederate Battle Flag emblems on their CDs!
| 555 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:08:39am |
re: #550 BigPapa
Oh, Dixie Chicks Ding. When CD
burningmelting became patriotic.
...
We could have lost the war because of them wimins. Good thing the radio stations took care of them!!11ty
| 556 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:08:43am |
re: #552 Decatur Deb
Dinged for the perceived irony in the headline, but the link-through seems to have moved on to other news.
Still links for me... I think it is a subscription issue. Anyway, it's the headline as written that is funny.
| 557 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:14:05am |
re: #554 oaktree
Imagine what the cognitive dissonance would have been if the Dixie Chicks had printed Confederate Battle Flag emblems on their CDs!
Well. Then it would have been OK. You see. All you have to do to get a free pass on being anti-war in wingnut world is dress it in neo-Confederate/Libertarian symbolism and rhetoric. Then it's OK for the wingers.
The invasion of Iraq was just another war of the Northern Invasion!
Of course right now it's OK to be an anti-war winger. After all. They've managed to turn Afghanistan into "Obama's war."
| 558 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:14:29am |
How is it going this morning everyone?
Hello.
| 559 |
Eventual Carrion Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:14:44am |
re: #313 RogueOne
Drudge has this story labelled as "White House Push-back on Solyndra" but I'm not seeing much cover for the administration in it other than the title:
In Rush to Assist Solyndra, U.S. Missed Warning Signs
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
[Link: www.grist.org...]
May 2005: Just as a global silicon shortage begins driving up prices of solar photovoltaics, Solyndra is founded to provide a cost-competitive alternative to silicon-based panels.
July 2005: The Bush administration signs the Energy Policy Act of 2005 into law, creating the 1703 loan guarantee program.
February 2006 - October 2006: In February, Solyndra raises its first round of venture financing, worth $10.6 million from CMEA Capital, Redpoint Ventures, and U.S. Venture Partners. In October, Argonaut Venture Capital, an investment arm of George Kaiser, invests $17 million into Solyndra. Madrone Capital Partners, an investment arm of the Walton family, invests $7 million. Those investments are part of a $78.2 million fund.
December 2006: Solyndra applies for a loan guarantee under the 1703 program.
Late 2007: Loan guarantee program is funded. Solyndra was one of 16 clean-tech companies deemed ready to move forward in the due diligence process. The Bush administration DOE moves forward to develop a conditional commitment.
October 2008: Then Solyndra CEO Chris Gronet touted reasons for building in Silicon Valley and noted that the "company's second factory also will be built in Fremont, since a Department of Energy loan guarantee mandates a U.S. location."
November 2008: Silicon prices remain very high on the spot market, making non-silicon based thin film technologies like Solyndra's very attractive to investors. Solyndra also benefits from having very low installation costs. The company raises $144 million from ten different venture investors, including the Walton-family run Madrone Capital Partners. This brings total private investment to more than $450 million to date.
January 2009: In an effort to show it has done something to support renewable energy, the Bush administration tries to take Solyndra before a DOE credit review committee just one day before President Obama is inaugurated. The committee, consisting of career civil servants with financial expertise, remands the loan back to DOE because it wasn't ready for conditional commitment.
March 2009: The same credit committee approves the strengthened loan application. The deal passes on to DOE's credit review board. Career staff (not political appointees) within the DOE issue a conditional commitment setting out terms for a guarantee.
June 2009: As more silicon production facilities come online while demand for PV wavers due to the economic slowdown, silicon prices start to drop. Meanwhile, the Chinese begin rapidly scaling domestic manufacturing and set a path toward dramatic, unforeseen cost reductions in PV. Between June of 2009 and August of 2011, PV prices drop more than 50 percent.
September 2009: Solyndra raises an additional $219 million. Shortly after, the DOE closes a $535 million loan guarantee after six months of due diligence. This is the first loan guarantee issued under the 1703 program. From application to closing, the process took three years -- not the 41 days that is sometimes reported.
January - June 2010: As the price of conventional silicon-based PV continues to fall due to low silicon prices and a glut of solar modules, investors and analysts start questioning Solyndra's ability to compete in the marketplace. Despite pulling its IPO (as dozens of companies did in 2010), Solyndra raises an additional $175 million from investors.
| 560 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:16:57am |
re: #551 HappyWarrior
I thought he would have felt that the government should stay out of something like that. I don't like the guy at all but I thought he would have felt that way.
Ron Paul has consistently proven that he only actually objects to government when it comes to the Federal government but would basically allow States governments to do anything. He and his doped-up followers have been pretty successful at obfuscating those nastier aspects of their candidate. I guess when there is some GOP person opposed to foreign interventions, some right-wingers will swallow anything.
Ron Paul is a neoconfederate. And the GOP gets more and more openly embracing of his kind.
| 561 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:17:37am |
BTW, is Beck still pushing gold? Also, it would be interesting to hear what the economic genius Luap Nor has to say about the stability of US currnecy in the event of a return to the gold standard:
Gold Spot 23 Sep
| 562 |
HappyWarrior Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:18:06am |
re: #560 000G
Ron Paul has consistently proven that he only actually objects to government when it comes to the Federal government but would basically allow States governments to do anything. He and his doped-up followers have been pretty successful at obfuscating those nastier aspects of their candidate. I guess when there is some GOP person opposed to foreign interventions, some right-wingers will swallow anything.
Ron Paul is a neoconfederate. And the GOP gets more and more openly embracing of his kind.
Yeah, well it surprised me nonetheless. Agree with your point about Paul as a whole. As I said, I am not a fan.
| 564 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:20:21am |
re: #563 Varek Raith
Sup
Nobody understands my sense of humour, Ron Paul is clearly a tweaker, and the GOP has surrendered to the Tea Party.
IOW - Nothing is up.
| 566 |
palomino Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:23:13am |
re: #496 NJDhockeyfan
Right, just like the racists and anti-Semites at HuffPo are the 'significant minority if not a majority' of the Democrats.
Pretty easy to test that assertion. Did the Dem candidates for prez in 2008 make the extreme left Huffpo type of anti-semitic racist remarks during the debates of 2007-2008? Answer is no.
Are the GOP candidates now making the type of extremist right arguments found on freeper? Yes.
So there's your difference. And the magical balance fairy crashes again.
| 567 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:23:46am |
Well, all, the world has changed again. All My Children is/has gone off the air. No more Erica Kane. I actually remember the first episode because my mother was excited about the "new" soap opera.
I haven't watched the Soaps since my kid was a baby and there was nothing else to watch and I needed mindless entertainment.
I have to wonder how many Tea Party heads are exploding because this simple, inevitable change has happened. Still wonder how many more won't realize it for 10 years.
| 568 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:23:59am |
re: #560 000G
Ron Paul has consistently proven that he only actually objects to government when it comes to the Federal government but would basically allow States governments to do anything. He and his doped-up followers have been pretty successful at obfuscating those nastier aspects of their candidate. I guess when there is some GOP person opposed to foreign interventions, some right-wingers will swallow anything.
Ron Paul is a neoconfederate. And the GOP gets more and more openly embracing of his kind.
Yeah. After putting his name on the map by working for... the Federal government. Technically that association started when he joined the USAF. What a douche.
| 569 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:24:18am |
re: #560 000G
Ron Paul has consistently proven that he only actually objects to government when it comes to the Federal government but would basically allow States governments to do anything. He and his doped-up followers have been pretty successful at obfuscating those nastier aspects of their candidate. I guess when there is some GOP person opposed to foreign interventions, some right-wingers will swallow anything.
Ron Paul is a neoconfederate. And the GOP gets more and more openly embracing of his kind.
It's time we pushed hard for 'county rights' Those Yankees up around Huntsville are diluting Alabama's glorious culture.
(There is an Italian political sentiment called "Belltowerism". It means "everything of importance occurs within sound of my village churchbell".)
| 571 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:25:06am |
| 572 |
wrenchwench Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:25:39am |
re: #569 Decatur Deb
It's time we pushed hard for 'county rights' Those Yankees up around Huntsville are diluting Alabama's glorious culture.
(There is an Italian political sentiment called "Belltowerism". It means "everything of importance occurs within sound of my village churchbell".)
Some of the militia types believe that only the county level of government is legitimate. Hence the worship of certain Sheriffs.
| 573 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:26:33am |
re: #567 ggt
Well, all, the world has changed again. All My Children is/has gone off the air. No more Erica Kane. I actually remember the first episode because my mother was excited about the "new" soap opera.
I haven't watched the Soaps since my kid was a baby and there was nothing else to watch and I needed mindless entertainment.
I have to wonder how many Tea Party heads are exploding because this simple, inevitable change has happened. Still wonder how many more won't realize it for 10 years.
We're still waiting for many to come to their senses after 1964.
| 574 |
The Left Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:27:14am |
re: #572 wrenchwench
Some of the militia types believe that only the county level of government is legitimate. Hence the worship of certain Sheriffs.
They also like the uniforms and the quasi-military nature of law enforcement.
| 575 |
palomino Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:27:15am |
re: #498 Gus 802
So um. HuffPo is equal to a nationally televised Republican presidential debate?
And Huffpo is hardly the monolith that it once was, many years ago. The comment section at Huffpo used to lean heavily left, but since they hooked up with AOL, they've got quite a few conservative commenters. Even a few of their articles and opinion pieces are written by conservatives.
| 576 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:27:32am |
Dixie Chicks pissed-me off at the time. Mostly because I thought they dissed the soldiers along with the war.
| 577 |
wrenchwench Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:28:18am |
re: #574 iceweasel
They also like the uniforms and the quasi-military nature of law enforcement.
So long as they ain't Feds!!1!
| 578 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:28:31am |
re: #575 palomino
And Huffpo is hardly the monolith that it once was, many years ago. The comment section at Huffpo used to lean heavily left, but since they hooked up with AOL, they've got quite a few conservative commenters. Even a few of their articles and opinion pieces are written by conservatives.
Not that I disagree with your overall sentiment, but doesn't
Even a few of their articles and opinion pieces are written by conservatives
sound lot like "some of my best friends are Jews"?
| 579 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:30:51am |
Wife told me to pick a bowl of Basil. Mmmm pesto. BBL
| 580 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:31:08am |
re: #575 palomino
And Huffpo is hardly the monolith that it once was, many years ago. The comment section at Huffpo used to lean heavily left, but since they hooked up with AOL, they've got quite a few conservative commenters. Even a few of their articles and opinion pieces are written by conservatives.
I think the more sane people from both sides of the aisle are finding common ground in our discontent with Congress.
| 581 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:31:16am |
re: #505 NJDhockeyfan
Ow Gawd, this guy is a real sick bastard:
John Mearsheimer Endorses a Hitler Apologist and Holocaust Revisionist
It gets worse if you have the stomach to read the rest.
Wow. Just wow. What a scumbag.
| 582 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:32:10am |
re: #567 ggt
My wife DVRs General Hospital and watches it faithfully.
The thing for me? I wouldn't like most of these people in real life and wouldn't spend a minute on purpose with any of them.
So I am (silently) praying for the moment that GH ends. (Along with most reality programming).
Please don't tell my wife I said that.
| 583 |
palomino Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:32:18am |
re: #578 imp_62
Not that I disagree with your overall sentiment, but doesn't
sound lot like "some of my best friends are Jews"?
I was thinking it sounded more like "even Fox has a few liberal commentators around." Though they are mostly there to be punching bags.
| 584 |
Varek Raith Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:33:11am |
| 585 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:34:10am |
re: #572 wrenchwench
Some of the militia types believe that only the county level of government is legitimate. Hence the worship of certain Sheriffs.
Which is probably the closest our currrent society gets to living under the potential local tyranny* that would emulate medieval society. Destroy the interstates and transportation networks to prevent the downtrodden from fleeing and we'd get even closer.
* - You as an individual are generally small and not normally worthy of special attention from the state and nation. That changes once the jurisdiction gets small enough. Plus the fact that if you become the target of the local power it is persuasive and essentially everywhere at that scale.
| 586 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:35:29am |
re: #583 palomino
I was thinking it sounded more like "even Fox has a few liberal commentators around." Though they are mostly there to be punching bags.
Best Zappa lyric ever:
Don't they pay you good for the
Stuff that you do?
Well, you know, I can't complain when the checks come through...
| 587 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:35:34am |
re: #582 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My wife DVRs General Hospital and watches it faithfully.
The thing for me? I wouldn't like most of these people in real life and wouldn't spend a minute on purpose with any of them.
So I am (silently) praying for the moment that GH ends. (Along with most reality programming).
Please don't tell my wife I said that.
Ahh, haha, when my kid was a toddler, he'd rush to the TV room when he heard the opening theme for GH.
My neighbor would come over and we'd watch it together & drink coffee. It was the only "girl-time" I had for those years.
"Daytime Drama" has run it's course --now it's reality TV.
In a way, it's too bad because it was a way into the industry for some very talented actors. GH, in particular, dealt with some real-life issues and brought good information to the public that might not have otherwise gotten it (AIDS and Breast Cancer are two I remember). So, there was some good aspects to otherwise mindless drama.
| 588 |
MicheleR Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:36:23am |
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
Did this get posted yet? Sorry computer is slow today
| 589 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:36:53am |
re: #581 Sergey Romanov
Wow. Just wow. What a scumbag.
I think Gilad Atzmon is just an attention queen. Come on, if he really believed in all that nazi crap, he would have already sucked on a .44 and put an end to his Jewness.
He wants ATTENTION by being the BIGGEST JEWNAZI of ALL TIME.
| 590 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:37:18am |
| 592 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:38:54am |
re: #589 Alouette
I think Gilad Atzmon is just an attention queen. Come on, if he really believed in all that nazi crap, he would have already sucked on a .44 and put an end to his Jewness.
He wants ATTENTION by being the BIGGEST JEWNAZI of ALL TIME.
Heh, like Izya Shamir, he calls himself an "ex-Jew". I guess that helps to cope :)
| 593 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:39:25am |
I have to go for a while.
Have a great afternoon all!
| 595 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:40:15am |
| 596 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:40:30am |
Anti-Immigrant Groups Founded By White Supremacist Wield Influence Over Google/Fox News Debate
The Google/Fox News debate last night featured a new online question submission platform, allowing the “viewing public for the first time to weigh in with votes on questions they want asked.” Steve Grove, an executive at Google, was quoted in a Fox News article saying the new format will “bring more voices into the arena to create an informed and lively dialogue about the future of our country.”
But one of the YouTube questions came from Kristen Williamson, a spokeswoman from Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), a conservative advocacy hate group that lobbies for less immigration. Chris Wallace did not introduce Williamson’s question as one selected by viewers. However, the format of the question appeared as the other user-submitted videos.
Earlier during the debate program, NumbersUSA, a right-wing grassroots group also dedicated to decreasing the number of legal immigrants, aired a new national television ad.
Among the many white supremacy connections between the two groups, both were founded with help from John Tanton, an infamous anti-immigrant activist. An advocate of eugenics and other racist beliefs, Tanton has said that his immigration philosophy is guided by the goal of preserving a “European-American majority.” Watch the NumbersUSA ad, followed by the FAIR question about E-Verify to Newt Gingrich...
Continues.
| 597 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:41:16am |
What a load of crap. They actually go a question from Lee Doren? Seriously?
| 598 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:42:21am |
re: #314 Udon
Don't ask don't tell means that you don't tell anyone you're gay, but even if someone finds out by chance (lets say someone from your unit sees you holding hands with a guy while on holiday) you still get kicked out of the military. What does sex has to do with anything?
There's one case of a woman being ratted out by someone with a personal grudge for living with another woman in a house an hour's drive from the base she was working at. And being instantly bounced.
But they're getting desperate, and 'we just don't think gay couples should be having sex behind the bushes on the obstacle course' is something almost everyone will agree with, whereas, 'we just don't think that a woman should be allowed to stay in military if we know she has a girlfriend in Wichita she writes loves letters to from Iraq' is increasingly NOT.
| 599 |
wrenchwench Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:42:58am |
re: #596 Gus 802
Anti-Immigrant Groups Founded By White Supremacist Wield Influence Over Google/Fox News Debate
The mainstreaming of Tanton and his ilk is the most disturbing among many disturbing trends.
| 600 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:44:18am |
re: #318 Sergey Romanov
According to the Dead Louse blog, I'm a neo-Stalinist. Too bad my Stalinist detractors in Russia don't know that and think that I'm a paid American/Polish/Jewish shill that blackens the Great Leader's name for money.
Oh, and good day.
It's OK Sergey. I'm an anti-Christian Hispanophobe, who dodges Katyusha rockets from Berkeley, and believes in bringing Sharia law to America. Also, I don't have the guts to wear a Che t-shirt in Florida, and believe that it's possible for Japan to melt and fall into the ocean in a literal sense.
You learn some amazing things about yourself over there.
| 601 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:44:37am |
Alex Jones sez Skynet is in control of the government already (if the script fudges this up: skip 10:40):
But maybe not… maybe it's the evil psychopathic NERDS who control the New World Order government:
It's 1337 PROGRAMMERS keeping the microchipped population as pets:
Harblegarble Scientific Dictatorship harblegarble:
He really understands this science stuff, see:
But don't worry, Alex is a tough guy and will save you. He's just a little brain-damaged. But that is a GOOD thing:
| 602 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:46:52am |
I gotta get moving. Watch out for that big ole' bus sized weather monitoring satellite... It might hit North America... Al Gore further tries to destroy America.
| 603 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:47:50am |
re: #330 Sergey Romanov
BTW, isn't Maariv right-wing?
Relatively, yes, and more so in recent years, but the "OMG, Obama hates us" routine is more rooted in among the right-wing Anglim. Maariv caters more to a sabra crowd from a diverse background.
| 604 |
Varek Raith Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:48:35am |
re: #602 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I gotta get moving. Watch out for that big ole' bus sized weather monitoring satellite... It might hit North America... Al Gore further tries to destroy America.
From Nasa;
As of 10:30 a.m. EDT on Sept. 23, 2011, the orbit of UARS was 100 miles by 105 miles (160 km by 170 km). Re-entry is expected late Friday, Sept. 23, or early Saturday, Sept. 24, Eastern Daylight Time. Solar activity is no longer the major factor in the satellite’s rate of descent. The satellite’s orientation or configuration apparently has changed, and that is now slowing its descent. There is a low probability any debris that survives re-entry will land in the United States, but the possibility cannot be discounted because of this changing rate of descent. It is still too early to predict the time and location of re-entry with any certainty, but predictions will become more refined in the next 12 to 18 hours.
| 605 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:48:39am |
re: #596 Gus 802
Anti-Immigrant Groups Founded By White Supremacist Wield Influence Over Google/Fox News Debate
Did you notice [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] and [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] ?
| 607 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:49:50am |
re: #603 SanFranciscoZionist
Relatively, yes, and more so in recent years, but the "OMG, Obama hates us" routine is more rooted in among the right-wing Anglim. Maariv caters more to a sabra crowd from a diverse background.
Does not compute:
re: #332 Alouette
The only right-wing Israel media sources are Jerusalem Post and Arutz Sheva, all the others are more or less leftist. YNet and Maariv are left, and Haaretz is LEFT LEFT LEFT, like further left than "The Guardian."
| 608 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:49:51am |
re: #605 000G
Did you notice [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] and [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...] ?
Ah. Missed that. Didn't watch the debate and this is the first I heard of this astroturfing.
| 609 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:51:17am |
re: #597 Gus 802
What a load of crap. They actually go a question from Lee Doren? Seriously?
Ah, so that's the name of "Devil's Advocate".
| 610 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:51:36am |
re: #331 Gus 802
I thought the same thing but thought otherwise after reading the description of Maariv and definitely not after reading Alouette's translation.
There's an old joke that the phrase from the prayer book, "Baruch atah adonai, ha-maariv aravim", meaning 'Praised are you, Lord, who makes evening fall' can also be translated 'Praised are you Lord, who brings evening papers to Arabs'.
I imagine late afternoon light falling golden over East Jerusalem, as an invisible hand flicks copies of Maariv onto doorsteps...
| 611 |
Varek Raith Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:52:14am |
re: #600 SanFranciscoZionist
It's OK Sergey. I'm an anti-Christian Hispanophobe, who dodges Katyusha rockets from Berkeley, and believes in bringing Sharia law to America. Also, I don't have the guts to wear a Che t-shirt in Florida, and believe that it's possible for Japan to melt and fall into the ocean in a literal sense.
You learn some amazing things about yourself over there.
O_o
o_O
| 612 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:52:23am |
re: #337 Lidane
Could someone explain this idiocy to me? My Wingnut-to-English translator is on the fritz:
Bakesales. She's thinking about bakesales.
| 614 |
wrenchwench Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:53:36am |
| 615 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:53:49am |
re: #356 RogueOne
Watch the video. It doesn't sound like more than a couple to me. Either way it was disgusting enough that someone should have slapped them and someone on the stage should have called them out publicly.
It's not a full-scale crowd response, but more than a couple. But agreed about the response.
| 616 |
wrenchwench Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:54:39am |
| 617 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:54:43am |
re: #612 SanFranciscoZionist
Bakesales. She's thinking about bakesales.
All i can think of when I see Bachmann is how the writers on Ally McBeale would have had a field day with her throat "waddle".
| 618 |
Varek Raith Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:55:32am |
| 619 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:55:41am |
Abbas: Time has come to end Palestinian suffering
Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas said that the time has come for Palestinians to end "63 years of the Nakba (catastrophe)" and suffering.
Abbas said that it was time for the "Palestinian Spring," as he called in, in reference to the so-called Arab Spring protests that spread this last year throughout the Middle East.
"My people desire the right to enjoy a regular life, like the rest of humanity," Abbas said.
Ya know, if they stopped firing rockets into Israel, strapping bombs to their children in order to kill Israelis, and teaching their children to hate Jews instead of teaching them the three R's, they might enjoy a regular life.
| 620 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:55:58am |
| 622 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:57:25am |
re: #384 aagcobb
If a guy is willing to go to Iraq to ogle men in the shower, I say, let him ogle.
| 623 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:57:25am |
re: #619 NJDhockeyfan
Abbas: Time has come to end Palestinian suffering
Ya know, if they stopped firing rockets into Israel, strapping bombs to their children in order to kill Israelis, and teaching their children to hate Jews instead of teaching them the three R's, they might enjoy a regular life.
Unfortunately, many generations of Palestinians have been taught that this is their regular life.
| 624 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:57:32am |
Man. Rick Perry has wingnut bus tire tracks all over him this morning.
| 625 |
Alexzander Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:57:46am |
My apolgoies if this has already been discussed, but what the hell; why is Clinton stirring trouble like this?
Bill Clinton: Netanyahu to blame for failure of peace process
NEW YORK - Former US President Bill Clinton is blaming the failure of the peace process with the Palestinians on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Yearning for leaders of the past, Clinton said, "The two great tragedies in modern Middle Eastern politics, which make you wonder if God wants Middle East peace or not, were Rabin's assassination and Sharon's stroke."
[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]
| 626 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:59:04am |
re: #403 NJDhockeyfan
If I was a betting man I say would those were probably Luap Nor supporters.
I wouldn't say that would be a bad bet--except that they could also be Bachmann supporters, or Santorum supporters, or even Cain supporters...there are too many crazy people with crazy fans involved in this to be sure.
| 627 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:59:09am |
re: #624 Gus 802
Man. Rick Perry has wingnut bus tire tracks all over him this morning.
[Link: livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
Scroll down for more.
| 628 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 9:59:44am |
re: #409 NJDhockeyfan
You can't tell but I see most of y'all have already blamed the GOP supporters for it. Ron Paul hasn't hidden his distaste for war or the military. I would assume his supporters feel the same way.
You think they were booing because they don't like the war?
I wish I had your confidence.
| 629 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:00:07am |
re: #625 Alexzander
My apolgoies if this has already been discussed, but what the hell; why is Clinton stirring trouble like this?
He's pissed at Buck.
| 630 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:00:08am |
TPM Livewire
TPM Livewirerss
12:51 PM | | #
Rasmussen: Obama 48, Bachmann 32Rep. Michele Bachmann has continued her fade in the GOP presidential primary, as Rasmussen released a poll showing her way down in a matchup versus President Obama. Bachmann was only able to garner 32 percent against Obama’s 48 in a survey of 1,000 likely voters nationally.
12:51 PM | | #
Ann Coulter Disses PerryIn a series of tweets last night during the debate, conservative firebrand Ann Coulter repeatedly did what she does best: insult people. Singling out Gov. Rick Perry’s views on immigration, Coulter tweeted that the candidate’s “hair had to immigrate to Florida for the debate.”
She also agreed with the analysis being provided by most other political commentators today, telling her followers “Governor Perry losing debate with his own tongue.”
12:20 PM | | #
The Perry Backlash Video Mash-UpTPM has been chronicling the conservative backlash against Rick Perry’s debate performance. But now you can watch it, too. Below is a highlights reel of pundits piling in on Perry.
12:19 PM | | #
Byron York: Perry Sounds Like A 'Liberal' On EducationThe GOP attack on Gov. Rick Perry’s support for in-state tuition for illegal aliens keeps intensifying. Last night, Perry defended his position, calling out those who don’t support the measure as heartless. In an appearance on Fox News, conservative commentator Byron York launched a counter-offensive:
“That thing about having no heart really does not sit well with Republicans. To them, to Republican ears, it sounds like a liberal talking.”
12:12 PM | | #
'Perry Is Finished' Says Anti-Illegal Immigration GroupLast night, Gov. Rick Perry “destroyed” his chances of winning the GOP nomination when he defended his support for in-state tuition for illegal aliens, according to ALI-PAC, an anti-illegal immigration group.
“Rick Perry proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is not the right choice for America by supporting these radical illegal immigration attracting measures,” said William Gheen, President of ALIPAC in a statement. “Perry’s support for in-state tuition for illegals forces taxpayers to pay to replace their own children in the limited seats in our colleges!”
ALI-PAC claims that in-state tuition for illegal aliens is opposed by 81% of Americans, and has defeated measures allowing it in over 20 states.
| 631 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:00:18am |
| 632 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:00:34am |
re: #627 Gus 802
[Link: livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
Scroll down for more.
11:19 AM | | #
Santorum: I Didn't Hear The Boos Of Gay Soldier
GOP Presidential Rick Santorum said after the Fox News/Google Republican debate last night that he didn’t hear anything from the crowd after a video question from a gay soldier on the repeal of DADT. Huffington Post grabbed the quote: “I didn’t hear the boos so I can’t make anything from something I didn’t hear.” Santorum said.
What a load of crap. he actually paused during his answer so the boos could subside.
| 633 |
Varek Raith Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:02:26am |
re: #632 imp_62
11:19 AM | | #
Santorum: I Didn't Hear The Boos Of Gay SoldierWhat a load of crap. he actually paused during his answer so the boos could subside.
| 634 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:02:32am |
re: #439 NJDhockeyfan
Protesting against any war is not anti-American at all. It's allowed and is one thing that puts this country far ahead of all the others.
This is anti-American and traitorous IMO.
That was also taken before I was born. I ain't a little girl any more. Bringing us back to the present, many of remember a certain amount of recent rhetoric about the motivations and human worthiness of anyone who would oppose the war in Iraq in which we are still involved.
| 635 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:02:34am |
re: #625 Alexzander
My apolgoies if this has already been discussed, but what the hell; why is Clinton stirring trouble like this?
He's been on a tear lately.
| 636 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:04:30am |
re: #461 Gus 802
That space is on Maiden Lane in San Francisco. I worked in an office that used that same location. Well, they owned the building too.
Pricey!!
| 637 |
Varek Raith Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:04:34am |
Re-entry in ~10 hours.
If any piece lands near me, IT'S MINE!
Piss off NASA, I'm keeping it!
:P
| 638 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:04:59am |
re: #634 SanFranciscoZionist
That was also taken before I was born. I ain't a little girl any more. Bringing us back to the present, many of remember a certain amount of recent rhetoric about the motivations and human worthiness of anyone who would oppose the war in Iraq in which we are still involved.
Opposing the war in Iraq is understandable. I don't remember someone hanging out with the terrorists to help their propaganda machine though. Thank goodness for that.
| 639 |
Kragar Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:05:32am |
re: #637 Varek Raith
Re-entry in ~10 hours.
If any piece lands near me, IT'S MINE!
Piss off NASA, I'm keeping it!
:P
Enjoy your space cancer.
| 640 |
garhighway Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:05:44am |
re: #632 imp_62
11:19 AM | | #
Santorum: I Didn't Hear The Boos Of Gay SoldierWhat a load of crap. he actually paused during his answer so the boos could subside.
Maybe he had some Santorum in his ears.
| 641 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:06:19am |
re: #637 Varek Raith
Re-entry in ~10 hours.
If any piece lands near me, IT'S MINE!
Piss off NASA, I'm keeping it!
:P
If it lands on you, and you merge with the equipment to become some kind of weather-predicting, crime fighting superhero -
THAT WOULD BE SO COOL!!!
| 642 |
wrenchwench Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:06:23am |
OK, Ry Cooder is singing 'Simple Tools'. That's my cue to get to work.
| 643 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:06:35am |
re: #625 Alexzander
My apolgoies if this has already been discussed, but what the hell; why is Clinton stirring trouble like this?
I have it on good authority that it's OK not to like Netanyahu. In fact, close to 40 percent of Israelis feel the same way.
| 645 |
Alexzander Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:08:20am |
Check out that amazing signature of one Jacob Lew.
Wow it took me five minutes to write that - I'm out until the next thread. My computer cant handle 500 plus comments.
| 646 |
shutdown Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:10:46am |
re: #645 Alexzander
Check out that amazing signature of one Jacob Lew.
Wow it took me five minutes to write that - I'm out until the next thread. My computer cant handle 500 plus comments.
Which reminds me that Hilton has announced that there were, in fact, no $16 muffins. Their receipts were misinterpreted, according to Hilton. The $16 included muffins, fresh fruit, coffee and soft drinks. Or so they say - makes sense.
| 649 |
The Ghost of a Flea Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:13:30am |
re: #600 SanFranciscoZionist
It's OK Sergey. I'm an anti-Christian Hispanophobe, who dodges Katyusha rockets from Berkeley, and believes in bringing Sharia law to America. Also, I don't have the guts to wear a Che t-shirt in Florida, and believe that it's possible for Japan to melt and fall into the ocean in a literal sense.
You learn some amazing things about yourself over there.
Sorry guys. Apparently you're taking the misdirected blame for my vast leftist-occultist-liberal-Islamist world-spanning plot. When the dividends start paying out I'll be sure to send some your way (warning: shares are cashed out in the form of the future world currency, the souls of unbaptized children. You should probably get a humidor to maintain their freshness and commodity value).
| 650 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:13:54am |
re: #646 imp_62
Which reminds me that Hilton has announced that there were, in fact, no $16 muffins. Their receipts were misinterpreted, according to Hilton. The $16 included muffins, fresh fruit, coffee and soft drinks. Or so they say - makes sense.
Well yeah. If you're going to cater 100 cans of Pepsi to a meeting you're not going to charge them 75 cents a pop either. The price will include service or overhead.
| 651 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:14:41am |
re: #619 NJDhockeyfan
Abbas: Time has come to end Palestinian suffering
"Abbas said that it was time for the "Palestinian Spring," as he called in, in reference to the so-called Arab Spring protests that spread this last year throughout the Middle East."
Ya know, if they stopped firing rockets into Israel, strapping bombs to their children in order to kill Israelis, and teaching their children to hate Jews instead of teaching them the three R's, they might enjoy a regular life.
And even beyond that, they tried it in Gaza. Is it any surprise Hamas smacked it down?
| 652 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:14:49am |
re: #645 Alexzander
My real signature is very John Hancock-esque... Two inches tall and four inches long... yeah... ego... sue me!
I became a notary... then it became a couple wacky crazy lines.
| 653 |
garhighway Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:17:07am |
re: #643 Gus 802
I have it on good authority that it's OK not to like Netanyahu. In fact, close to 40 percent of Israelis feel the same way.
It's Ok for Israelis to not like Netanyahu.
It is not Ok for Democratic politicians in the US to criticize him: it means that they are "anti-Israel".
| 654 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:17:56am |
re: #475 HappyWarrior
I am glad you pointed that out. I point that all the time to right wingers who talk about how they love Israel and the Israeli people yet completely ignore that the Israel did that. I point out that the British and Canadians do too. Though the Canadians doing anything doesn't seem to matter to people like that since they're like the American ambasador in the South PArk movie- "Fuck Canada."
NOTE: What I am about to say is not meant to denigrate the genuine interest in, and affection for, the State of Israel by many conservatives and Republicans both in and out of public office. For real.
The U.S. political right wing has almost no interest in Israel as a country, they have an interest in Israel because ostentatious 'love' for Israel is appealing to a section of their voting block, because they hope that it will peel some Jews off the Democrats finally, and in the pat decade or so, because protecting Israel's interests in the region has been successfully morphed in their minds with foreign policy in the ME that they favor. It is, despite the kudos and pats they get for it, a very safe position to take.
As a result, it is possible to cry in front of five thousand people about how you love Israel so much it makes you cry in public, but not know much about the government, the culture, the history, the people, the food, or the internal politics of the place. Michele Bachmann, who actually spent some time on a kibbutz as a girl is a rarity among them.
Even when wingnuts hold up Israel as a model, it is often with an incredible ignorance of what it's actually like. There was a mantra at one point that we should have airport profiling, 'because Israel does it'. At the time, I pointed out, often, that what Israel does is infinitely more sophisticated and expensive than pulling all the Arabs out of line, and also, that Israel's flight security involves a level of nosing into your private life that the wingnuts would never, never tolerate from TSA--but they didn't get it. It kept coming back to "But Israel profiles!"
| 655 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:18:13am |
re: #653 garhighway
It's Ok for Israelis to not like Netanyahu.
It is not Ok for Democratic politicians in the US to criticize him: it means that they are "anti-Israel".
Well. That is unfortunate and a false and biased conclusion. Of which I assume you will agree.
| 656 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:18:29am |
re: #638 NJDhockeyfan
Opposing the war in Iraq is understandable. I don't remember someone hanging out with the terrorists to help their propaganda machine though. Thank goodness for that.
Please. Lol "why do you hate America" got quickly relegated to Clichéland for a reason.
Oppose the war in Iraq, automatically get called a terrorist ANSWER simp who hates America and loves evil. Short memory for barely 5 years ago; but grudges are still held against what Jane Fonda said and apologized for 40 years ago.
| 657 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:19:27am |
re: #495 000G
Make no mistake: Ron Paul has explicitly stated that he supports the rights of States to criminialize specific sexual conduct, of course including homosexual conduct:
[Link: www.lewrockwell.com...]
Paulbots generally don't give a shit, though. I figure they are too high most of the time to realize that they support a paleo-socon theocrat who doesn't give a fuck about the SCOTUS (from the above linked article):
Furthermore:
[Link: www.lewrockwell.com...]
How is it possible to believe in personal liberty, and yet say that the state you're living in has the right to criminalize what you and another consenting adult do with your naughty bits?
| 658 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:20:05am |
re: #619 NJDhockeyfan
Abbas: Time has come to end Palestinian suffering
Ya know, if they stopped firing rockets into Israel, strapping bombs to their children in order to kill Israelis, and teaching their children to hate Jews instead of teaching them the three R's, they might enjoy a regular life.
Palestinians are "suffering" as long as there are Jews on "their" land. And by "their" land they mean this.
| 659 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:20:16am |
re: #638 NJDhockeyfan
I don't remember someone
hanging outpalling around with the terrorists to help their propaganda machine though. Thank goodness for that.
Updated for the contemporary era.
| 660 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:20:27am |
| 661 |
garhighway Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:21:15am |
re: #655 Gus 802
Well. That is unfortunate and a false and biased conclusion. Of which I assume you will agree.
Of course it is false and biased. I was channeling the GOP.
Is there a tag for that?
| 662 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:21:22am |
re: #505 NJDhockeyfan
Ow Gawd, this guy is a real sick bastard:
John Mearsheimer Endorses a Hitler Apologist and Holocaust Revisionist
It gets worse if you have the stomach to read the rest.
I protested a speech by Atzmon in Oakland, last spring.
He's a real messed-up situation.
| 663 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:22:34am |
re: #643 Gus 802
I have it on good authority that it's OK not to like Netanyahu. In fact, close to 40 percent of Israelis feel the same way.
Netanyahu is just another rwnj. Why is liking/disliking him even discussed?
| 664 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:23:18am |
re: #657 SanFranciscoZionist
How is it possible to believe in personal liberty, and yet say that the state you're living in has the right to criminalize what you and another consenting adult do with your naughty bits?
I'll give this another try: Because it's basically conservative versus liberal ideology on sex. Conservative ideology says whatever the majority's morals on sex say represents what is right. Liberal ideology says whatever consenting, sane adults agree to when it comes to sex is fine.
You cannot be a Conservative on sex and believe in personal liberty.
| 665 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:25:55am |
re: #607 000G
Does not compute:
re: #332 Alouette
Alouette and I may have different views on what makes 'right wing'. I'm talking solely about how their foreign policy related political views would stack up against a rough equivalent in the United States. Doesn't mean they're not basically socialists.
Or, I could totally be wrong. I don't follow Maariv closely, since they don't have an English-language version.
| 666 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:29:28am |
re: #663 Sergey Romanov
Netanyahu is just another rwnj. Why is liking/disliking him even discussed?
I'm not really familiar with his social positions. He seems OK for the most part. But there are points of disagreement. It just seems like people walk on eggshells when discussing Netanyahu as though he is this infallible leader. Many people in Israel for example dislike -- or disagree with -- Obama but that doesn't mean they hate America.
| 667 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:31:44am |
re: #638 NJDhockeyfan
Opposing the war in Iraq is understandable. I don't remember someone hanging out with the terrorists to help their propaganda machine though. Thank goodness for that.
Well, Code Pink was accused of that, I think.
| 668 |
lawhawk Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:33:26am |
re: #653 garhighway
It's Ok for Israelis to not like Netanyahu.
It is not Ok for Democratic politicians in the US to criticize him: it means that they are "anti-Israel".
So much about the Arab Israeli conflict is about structural issues - but even more is overcome by the personal character of the leaders.
The Palestinians do not have anyone willing to pull a Sadat and make the trip to Jerusalem to pursue peace - a real peace (even if it turns out to be cold). The rhetoric remains the same from Palestinian leaders, whether it was Arafat, or Abbas, or the Hamas/PIJ thugs.
Israel, for its part has gone from Rabin and Peres to Kadima's Sharon - a former Likudnik who split to pursue a more moderate course, and ended up going for the Gaza disengagement to not only limit Israel's contact with Palestinians that caused friction in Gaza, but was meant to improve Israel's security situation.
Not only did the opposite occur, with the rocket war ensuing shortly after Israel put in place a more secure barrier between Gaza and Israel, but Sharon was felled by a stroke. That left the incompetent Ehud Olmert trying to carry on with similar policies and his weaknesses were exposed during the rocket war and the Hizbullah war.
The disengagement and the rocket war/Hizbullah war left Israelis realizing that they do not have partners in peace, despite Oslo obligations with the Palestinian Authority.
Netenyahu is from that mold - he doesn't see the Palestinians as a partner in peace and isn't afraid to say that to the consternation of diplomats who would willingly paper over that inescapable fact in pursuit of a deal.
Clinton had to deal with Netenyahu while he was President, and I don't think the two ever really got along (which again goes to how diplomacy is as much about personal relationships between parties as it is about the actual conflict at hand).
But there is a further complication when dealing with US/Israel relations in that criticism is perceived as being so much more - up to and including a repudiation of Israel and its policies, when that shouldn't be the case. Then, the spin takes over and the spin overtakes the reality - becoming its own new reality.
| 669 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:34:59am |
re: #653 garhighway
It's Ok for Israelis to not like Netanyahu.
It is not Ok for Democratic politicians in the US to criticize him: it means that they are "anti-Israel".
Anyone who doesn't like Binyamin Netanyahu is allowed. It is still a little alarming to see Bill Clinton popping out of the bushes this week of all weeks to yell "It's Bibi's fault!"
OTOH, I imagine this is rough week for Bill. He had high hopes when he was in office that his work would take us somewhere better than this with the conflict.
And I agree with him about Rabin and Sharon. I honestly believe Sharon had the sheer giant clanging balls, and the street cred, to pull off a better peace than we're likely to get now.
| 670 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:36:38am |
| 671 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:38:06am |
re: #664 000G
I'll give this another try: Because it's basically conservative versus liberal ideology on sex. Conservative ideology says whatever the majority's morals on sex say represents what is right. Liberal ideology says whatever consenting, sane adults agree to when it comes to sex is fine.
You cannot be a Conservative on sex and believe in personal liberty.
But Ron Paul says that an individual can not let black people in his business, and the state cannot stop him. He says he believes this because he puts personal liberty above all other considerations.
Does the majority's morality apply ONLY to sex? I mean, evidently, but what a freaking hypocrite.
| 672 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:39:43am |
re: #666 Gus 802
I'm not really familiar with his social positions. He seems OK for the most part. But there are points of disagreement. It just seems like people walk on eggshells when discussing Netanyahu as though he is this infallible leader. Many people in Israel for example dislike -- or disagree with -- Obama but that doesn't mean they hate America.
Well, so much worse for those people. That's an unhealthy situation. Supporting a state doesn't mean supporting the current government. Case in point - the US under Bush.
| 673 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:39:43am |
re: #667 SanFranciscoZionist
Well, Code Pink was accused of that, I think.
That's right. They brought $650,000 to the terrorists we were fighting in Fallujah. That was insane.
| 674 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:40:18am |
re: #669 SanFranciscoZionist
Anyone who doesn't like Binyamin Netanyahu is allowed. It is still a little alarming to see Bill Clinton popping out of the bushes this week of all weeks to yell "It's Bibi's fault!"
OTOH, I imagine this is rough week for Bill. He had high hopes when he was in office that his work would take us somewhere better than this with the conflict.
And I agree with him about Rabin and Sharon. I honestly believe Sharon had the sheer giant clanging balls, and the street cred, to pull off a better peace than we're likely to get now.
Sad what happened with Sharon. He's still alive too. About the stroke that is.
| 675 |
Gus Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:41:48am |
re: #672 Sergey Romanov
Well, so much worse for those people. That's an unhealthy situation. Supporting a state doesn't mean supporting the current government. Case in point - the US under Bush.
Yep. Or Russia under Putin. Italy under Berlusconi.
| 676 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:42:19am |
re: #673 NJDhockeyfan
That's right. They brought $650,000 to the terrorists we were fighting in Fallujah. That was insane.
Deep sigh. I don't recall all the details of this, and I'm not going to look it all up again, but they really, really didn't.
| 677 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:45:32am |
re: #674 Gus 802
Sad what happened with Sharon. He's still alive too. About the stroke that is.
As awful as the Gaza withdrawal was, I had a lot of faith at the time that he knew what he was doing. I wish he'd had longer to do it.
| 678 |
garhighway Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:51:31am |
re: #668 lawhawk
But there is a further complication when dealing with US/Israel relations in that criticism is perceived as being so much more - up to and including a repudiation of Israel and its policies, when that shouldn't be the case. Then, the spin takes over and the spin overtakes the reality - becoming its own new reality.
My point exactly: if a Democrat so much as looks sideways at Netanyahu, we end up with nonsense like "10 examples of why Obama hates Israel".
I have no idea what the right thing to do is in the Middle East. I have no idea whether Netanyahu is a good guy or a bad guy. All I know is that the willingness to give him a blank check in American blood and gold has become some sort of litmus test on whether any politician, especially any Democratic politician "supports Israel", which I find weird and dysfunctional.
| 679 |
lawhawk Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:52:39am |
re: #677 SanFranciscoZionist
I think a lot of Israelis - and other observers like myself - would agree. I don't think he would have let the rocket war carry on the way it did - and he would have found a way to show that it wasn't Israel's fault for a lack of action on the peace process, that it was the Palestinians themselves that were the impediment to a deal.
After all, the disengagement should have put the lie about Israel not wanting to give up land for peace to bed, but that still somehow hold on despite all facts and evidence to the contrary.
It showed that land for peace with the Palestinians is insufficient for the Palestinians. They simply refuse to accept any existence of Israel - and will violently carry on as Hamas continues to do.
| 680 |
SanFranciscoZionist Fri, Sep 23, 2011 10:58:22am |
re: #678 garhighway
My point exactly: if a Democrat so much as looks sideways at Netanyahu, we end up with nonsense like "10 examples of why Obama hates Israel".
I have no idea what the right thing to do is in the Middle East. I have no idea whether Netanyahu is a good guy or a bad guy. All I know is that the willingness to give him a blank check in American blood and gold has become some sort of litmus test on whether any politician, especially any Democratic politician "supports Israel", which I find weird and dysfunctional.
There's been a concerted effort to portray Obama and his administration as anti-Israel. I don't love everything he's done, but the stupidity of this effort pisses me off.
I wouldn't say that Israel has ever gotten a 'blank check in American blood and gold", blood especially. We give them aid. We also give a lot of other places aid.
| 681 |
lawhawk Fri, Sep 23, 2011 11:00:35am |
re: #678 garhighway
The right thing to do isn't the same if you're coming at this from a US, Western, Russian, Arab, Palestinian, or Israeli standpoint.
So many conflicting issues and agendas - stoked by religious passions in some instances, and political grievances that go back decades and reinforced by diplomatic actions since Israel's founding.
For Arabs and Palestinians in particular, they see the right thing as eliminating Israel from the lexicon and asserting Palestinian dominion.
That runs headlong into the Israeli position, which has been to abide by a 2-state solution.
The US, West, and Russia (and Soviet Union before it) would play in turns the Cold War, balancing politics, and stability to ensure oil flows to the rest of the world and for arms sales, access to markets, etc.
I fear that it would really take a war between Israel and the Palestinians to settle this one way or the other - and the Palestinians might not like the end result. Their leadership needs to be forced into accepting a very public defeat and rebuke to give up the ghost of a long term goal of eliminating Israel. Israel's magnanimity in aiding the Palestinians build a real productive state with integrating the Palestinian refugees from the rest of the Middle East in the Palestinian state would be key - and doable, but for ongoing Palestinian refusal to budge on its demands for a right to return to Israel.
| 682 |
garhighway Fri, Sep 23, 2011 11:09:31am |
re: #680 SanFranciscoZionist
I wouldn't say that Israel has ever gotten a 'blank check in American blood and gold", blood especially. We give them aid. We also give a lot of other places aid.
Agreed. But when the line on the campaign trail becomes "we should never let there be any daylight between our position and Israel's" (I may not have gotten the quote exactly right, but I know I'm close enough) then it seems to me they are saying we have to conform to whatever the Israeli government wants. How else could one guarantee that lack of daylight? If they veer right, we'd have to do likewise, right? How else could that work?
Israel is a sovereign nation. So are we. We are each entitled to act in our own best interests. Usually, our courses and interests coincide, because we have so much in common. But to even contemplate that once in a blue moon we might disagree gets a D labeled "anti-Israel". It's bizarre.
| 683 |
Sheila Broflovski Fri, Sep 23, 2011 11:11:08am |
re: #677 SanFranciscoZionist
As awful as the Gaza withdrawal was, I had a lot of faith at the time that he knew what he was doing. I wish he'd had longer to do it.
It blew, and it it blows to this day.
| 684 |
(I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was) Fri, Sep 23, 2011 11:13:10am |
re: #671 SanFranciscoZionist
But Ron Paul says that an individual can not let black people in his business, and the state cannot stop him. He says he believes this because he puts personal liberty above all other considerations.
Does the majority's morality apply ONLY to sex? I mean, evidently, but what a freaking hypocrite.
Sometimes, when Conservatives lose majorities, they pander to majorities that only exist in the heads of their traditional constituency. "Silent majorities", or the majorities of the past, for instance.
But, with the "not serving blacks" thing: Again, he points to States Rights... He says they would be bad laws, but States should be allowed to have racist, segregational laws. I guess people then would vote those States down with their feet or something, in Paul's mind.
| 685 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Fri, Sep 23, 2011 11:23:16am |
re: #684 000G
Sometimes, when Conservatives lose majorities, they pander to majorities that only exist in the heads of their traditional constituency. "Silent majorities", or the majorities of the past, for instance.
But, with the "not serving blacks" thing: Again, he points to States Rights... He says they would be bad laws, but States should be allowed to have racist, segregational laws. I guess people then would vote those States down with their feet or something, in Paul's mind.
Which points directly to the often huge chasm between the theory and the reality of these ideas.
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