Bolton Attacks Obama for Wikileaks, Beclowns Self

Politics • Views: 30,721

Former UN Ambassador John Bolton has a piece on Wikileaks in the Guardian’s “Comment is free” section today: WikiLeaks cables: Barack Obama is a bigger danger.

It’s a slightly less crazed version of yesterday’s whacked out Pamela Geller rant (which makes sense, given that Bolton wrote the foreword for Geller’s book). Bolton turns everything about Wikileaks into an attack on the Obama administration; “weak, wrong-headed, erratic, incorrect, uncomprehending, not interested, indifferent, failing, unwilling to act,” etc.

After several paragraphs of this kind of stuff, here’s the real kicker:

The more appropriate response is to prosecute everyone associated with these leaks to the fullest extent of US law, which the justice department at least appears to be considering.

Oh, for Pete’s sake. After whining and complaining and twisting and distorting everything about the Wikileaks scandal into a complete failure for Obama, suddenly Bolton admits that the administration’s Justice Department is already taking the action Bolton himself thinks is appropriate.

Rarely have I seen such a monumental self-beclowning.

Bolton’s other recommendation is to have the Pentagon stage cyber attacks against servers hosting Wikileaks.

Finally, the Pentagon’s cyber-warriors need target practice in this new form of combat, and they could long ago have practised by obliterating WikiLeaks’ electrons. Had we acted after the first release in July, there might not have been subsequent leaks, and lives and critical interests would have been protected.

Yeah, obliterate them electrons! Great idea. The US government attacking privately owned web servers that host material it doesn’t like. What could possibly go wrong?

Excuse me, I think I need an ibuprofen after this one.

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606 comments
1 Virginia Plain  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:12:13pm
Yeah, obliterate them electrons! Great idea. The US government attacking privately owned web servers that host material it doesn’t like. What could possibly go wrong?

It's coming.

2 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:12:30pm

I think Bolton should read Gates, and shut the fuck up.

[Link: smallwarsjournal.com...]

3 Lidane  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:14:56pm

re: #2 Obdicut

Pfft. What the hell does the Secretary of Defense know anyway? He doesn't even have that Bolton 'stache, so he can't have any credibility at all.

///

4 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:16:34pm

"Finally, the Pentagon’s cyber-warriors need target practice in this new form of combat, and they could long ago have practised by obliterating WikiLeaks’ electrons."

The internet is not a big truck its a series of tubes!

5 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:18:03pm

Otoh, Ron Paul and his ilk champion wikileaks and hope to bend it to their purposes. The right's own Assange, Alex Jones, is upset because he has been claiming to leak classified info for years and Assange is getting all the credit.

Like a cage full of enraged monkeys, the right will eventually stop screeching at the spectators and turn on each other.

6 SpaceJesus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:18:13pm

oh my god what a giant idiot

7 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:23:32pm

The authoritarian mind at work.

8 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:24:36pm

re: #1 Virginia Plain

It's coming.

We already have president Lieberman strong arming.

9 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:25:18pm

Bolton / Fetus Inna Jar '12

10 AntonSirius  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:25:24pm

re: #7 recusancy

The authoritarian mind at work.

I think you'd be hard-pressed to prove that Bolton has a mind, or if he does that it actually works.

11 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:25:59pm

re: #3 Lidane

Well, that stache... It can get you in strangest places.

///ducks///

12 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:26:20pm

Behold the new fruit born of my continual quest to compress all the idiocy I can find on the internet down into easily copy-pasta lol cat form!

[Link: jamesfirecat.deviantart.com...]


Dream the impossible dream.....

13 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:26:24pm

The idea that it's even possible to "obliterate Wikileaks' electrons" is a major instance of headdesk.

14 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:26:24pm

re: #3 Lidane

Pfft. What the hell does the Secretary of Defense know anyway? He doesn't even have that Bolton 'stache, so he can't have any credibility at all.

///

Besides, he's an Aggie; the Great Chief Aggie in fact, outranking all the Redpots, Buttpots, and mascot corporals put together.
///

15 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:30:01pm
16 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:30:04pm

re: #13 Charles

The idea that it's even possible to "obliterate Wikileaks' electrons" is a major instance of headdesk.

The US needs to neutralize Wikileak's Electrons with an awesome attack of Free Radicals.

In Bizarro World, Palin is Obama and Bolton is Biden. 2012 can't come fast enough, it's going to be a Cirkus Mikircus of monumental proportions

17 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:31:14pm

I didn't see the words "attack Iran" anywhere in the piece. Did Bolton really write this?

18 jaunte  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:32:18pm

Mustache vs. physics.

19 elizajane  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:33:44pm

This one was too crazy for even the Washington Post to publish. So the Guardian took it, so that everybody in Britain could make fun of the lunacy that is the American Right (which they like to mistake for all of America).

Thanks a lot, Guardian!
//

20 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:35:04pm

re: #17 Amory Blaine

I didn't see the words "attack Iran" anywhere in the piece. Did Bolton really write this?

Although he did say they were a threat. He must be getting soft in his old age.

21 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:36:14pm

re: #17 Amory Blaine

I didn't see the words "attack Iran" anywhere in the piece. Did Bolton really write this?

He's anti-Israel!!! ///

22 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:36:20pm

I like old NFL uniform day.

23 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:36:31pm

re: #19 elizajane

This one was too crazy for even the Washington Post to publish. So the Guardian took it, so that everybody in Britain could make fun of the lunacy that is the American Right (which they like to mistake for all of America).

Thanks a lot, Guardian!
//

America is like Britain's version of Disneyland a place that is too loud, too dramatic and too exciting too be truly real...

24 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:37:50pm

Wait. Wasn't it written that only commies and antisemites write for CiF?

/

25 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:39:36pm

re: #9 Jeff In Ohio

Bolton / Fetus Inna Jar '12

You never fail to make me laugh.

26 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:40:32pm

re: #22 Amory Blaine

I like old NFL uniform day.

yeah. loved the Packers throwbacks.

27 Mark Winter  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:45:08pm

All your electrons are belong to us

28 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:45:36pm

re: #25 Stanley Sea

You never fail to make me laugh.

That one is never going to get old. I'm thinking tshirts and bumper stickers.

29 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:48:47pm

self beclowning....ha!
another gem

30 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:50:06pm

re: #13 Charles

The idea that it's even possible to "obliterate Wikileaks' electrons" is a major instance of headdesk.

Excuse me, but you're under jurisdiction of the US law, and I don't remember the Euro-weenie energy conservation laws being on the books.

//

31 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:51:43pm

Economy making steady gains, except for jobs

everything going according to plans

32 Charleston Chew  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:53:46pm

re: #13 Charles

Republican Problem Solving Flow Chart:

1. Bomb it.
2. Is it fixed? If not, go to 1.

33 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:54:48pm

re: #32 Charleston Chew

Republican Problem Solving Flow Chart:

1. Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb it.
2. Is it fixed? If not, go to 1.

FTFY.

34 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:55:01pm

re: #31 engineer dog

Economy making steady gains, except for jobs

everything going according to plans

When the everyone is secure in their tax break

and we quit concerning ourselves about the immediate needs of the unemployed

and we reduce the deficit,

and we unmasked those tricksie scientists,

then the fairies that create jobs can get back to work.

35 Charleston Chew  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:56:39pm

re: #19 elizajane

Reminds me a bit of back in the 80s when Geraldo Rivera would have the Klan on his talk show so he could lecture them on the evils of racism.

36 theheat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:58:04pm
the Pentagon’s cyber-warriors need target practice in this new form of combat, and they could long ago have practised by obliterating WikiLeaks’ electrons.

As I was saying earlier, chest out, fist in the air, dumb as a piece of fucking wood. Yeah, that pretty much covers it.

37 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:58:49pm

re: #34 Jeff In Ohio

When the everyone is secure in their tax break

and we quit concerning ourselves about the immediate needs of the unemployed

and we reduce the deficit,

and we unmasked those tricksie scientists,

then the fairies that create jobs can get back to work.

...when those pesky workers finally learn to stop bothering us job creators with their socialist demands for decent wages

wage pressures! class warfare!

38 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 1:59:41pm

re: #32 Charleston Chew

Republican Problem Solving Flow Chart:

1. Bomb it.
2. Is it fixed? If not, go to 1.

Democrat problem solving chart:

If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.

39 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:00:44pm

re: #36 theheat

As I was saying earlier, chest out, fist in the air, dumb as a piece of fucking wood. Yeah, that pretty much covers it.

"More than that, it gets old when that becomes the acid test of a POTUS' mettle, whether they're willing to kill any ole body at the drop of a hat. Too "Off with their head!" / Alice in Wonderland for me."

Concur. We are almost through the looking glass at this point.

40 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:01:18pm

re: #38 Aceofwhat?

Democrat problem solving chart:

If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. If it stops moving, subsidize it.

Blue dog version: what the Dems say. Then bomb it.

41 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:02:08pm

re: #40 Sergey Romanov

Blue dog version: what the Dems say. Then bomb it.

Ahaaa, nicely done.

42 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:02:10pm

re: #37 engineer dog

...when those pesky workers finally learn to stop bothering us job creators with their socialist demands for decent wages

wage pressures! class warfare!

America is the land of the Ironic. It is the price of freedom and I, for one, will gladly pay that price.

43 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:02:51pm

How's the fiscal health of the WT? This seems desperate. Like Rev Moon is asking me for 75 cents..

44 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:03:41pm

re: #40 Sergey Romanov

Blue dog version: what the Dems say. Then bomb it.

Then expound at length about how important compromise is between both parties and bemoan how toxic the atmosphere is in Washington...

45 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:04:31pm

re: #44 jamesfirecat

and bemoan how toxic the atmosphere is in Washington...

"WHY R U ALL LOOKIN AT ME? I DIDNT DO IT!"

//

46 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:04:58pm

re: #39 Stanley Sea

"More than that, it gets old when that becomes the acid test of a POTUS' mettle, whether they're willing to kill any ole body at the drop of a hat. Too "Off with their head!" / Alice in Wonderland for me."

Concur. We are almost through the looking glass at this point.

An then there's Newt, douchebag in wiating:

"I've never seen an administration, even the Carter administration was never as routinely chaotic," Gingrich told CNN in reference to Obama's recent trip to Afghanistan. "Every time you turn around, this administration is fumbling somewhere around the world."

HEY NEWT, PUT YOUR PENIS BACK IN YOUR PANTS!

47 elizajane  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:05:29pm

Just noticed and earlier thread (I was at CHURCH this morning, Sarah, notice that even liberals sometimes go to CHURCH):

Sarah, you are going to kill a COW? In what way exactly does this show courage, grit, and bravery? It's a big, slow, dim-witted herbivorous animal that will just stand still while it's slaughtered. There is no skill or danger involved. Is the point that you're not afraid of some blood? Or that you just like killing things, anything, and having done sea and land you will perhaps shoot down some birds on the next show?

I assume that your family will then EAT every single bit of this cow, like my family always did whenever my Mennonite grandfather killed a cow.
Mennonite, Sarah. Like, pacifist, non-materialist, socialist help-your-neighbor type people, who are like the Amish with University educations. They kill cows. They don't make a (literally) bloody religion, or public spectacle, out of it.

Geez. How do you appall me, Sarah? Let me count the ways.

48 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:05:37pm
49 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:06:27pm

re: #44 jamesfirecat

Then expound at length about how important compromise is between both parties and bemoan how toxic the atmosphere is in Washington...

If I see Pelosi and Gingrich holding hands and singing Kumbaya I'm moving to Canada.

50 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:06:30pm

re: #48 Eymerich

There has been no quorum. The official policy has been kicked back to committee. Can you get everyone a coffee?

51 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:07:01pm

re: #48 Eymerich

my policy is that your grammar is going to be almost as much of an impediment as your attitude. but that's just me.

52 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:07:26pm

re: #50 Jeff In Ohio

There has been no quorum. The official policy has been kicked back to committee. Can you get everyone a coffee?

ooh, and i'll have a croissant.

53 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:07:43pm

re: #48 Eymerich

Here's a tag search for "wikileaks", very very easy to do a search, if you are truly interested in finding an answer to your question.

54 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:08:14pm

re: #48 Eymerich

Go get me a beer.

55 Lidane  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:08:29pm

re: #48 Eymerich

I'm pretty sure the standard policy here at LGF is that trolls and socks get tossed on the grill for snacks.

56 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:08:51pm

re: #50 Jeff In Ohio

There has been no quorum. The official policy has been kicked back to committee. Can you get everyone a coffee?

I'm drinking Alterra Blue Heeler.

57 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:09:39pm

re: #52 Aceofwhat?

ooh, and i'll have a croissant.

Oooo, make that two.

Eymerich, can you heat them in the toaster oven, not the microwave. Bread gets so weird in the microwave. Something to do with the electrons and gluten, I'm sure John Bolton can explain it to you.

58 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:10:49pm

re: #54 BigPapa

What goes good with troll meat?

59 Lidane  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:11:31pm

re: #50 Jeff In Ohio

Can you get everyone a coffee?

And a red velvet cupcake for me. I need the sugar fix.

60 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:11:32pm

re: #48 Eymerich

So... what's the LGF policy about Wikileaks?

Right-wing Charles would have asked for his execution.

I'm guessing Left-wing Charles cherishes at his success?

Okay guys you know what this is?

This si not a test, we are actually going to see the LGF trollcat system in action in...

Tminus 5

Timinus 4

Timinus 3

Timnius 2

Timinius 1

[Link: jamesfirecat.deviantart.com...]

Lift off.... we have lift off?


By the way what exactly has Charles done recently that's made you think he's on the left wing now?

He's been for sanity and rationality now just like he always has been.

61 Interesting Times  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:11:39pm

re: #48 Eymerich

Why, I do believe it's trollcat time...

62 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:11:49pm

re: #57 Jeff In Ohio

Oooo, make that two.

Eymerich, can you heat them in the toaster oven, not the microwave. Bread gets so weird in the microwave. Something to do with the electrons and gluten, I'm sure John Bolton can explain it to you.

Well, if we're going to have them warm (which is genius, btw), then we should just get the pain au chocolat, because the dark chocolate in the middle gets warm and melty, and heavenly things ensue.

Oh, and Eymerich - i take splenda and cream in my coffee. Giddyup.

63 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:12:10pm

re: #58 Sergey Romanov

What goes good with troll meat?

Something delightfully rancid, yet unrefined. Warm Pabst Blue Ribbon seems to cover up the gameyness.

64 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:12:55pm

re: #54 BigPapa

Go get me a beer.

ha!

65 Lidane  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:13:05pm

re: #63 BigPapa

Something delightfully rancid, yet unrefined. Warm Pabst Blue Ribbon seems to cover up the gameyness.

What covers up the taste of the warm PBR?

66 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:13:21pm

re: #58 Sergey Romanov

What goes good with troll meat?

it's actually quite soft, surprisingly. they tend not to be terribly active, so there's a lot of marbling...

67 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:13:29pm

re: #61 publicityStunted

Why, I do believe it's trollcat time...

GMTA, great to see them in action!

68 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:14:07pm

Eymerich, since you are going, Pinot for me. Thanks!

69 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:14:25pm

re: #65 Lidane

Vomit :)

70 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:15:41pm

re: #65 Lidane

What covers up the taste of the warm PBR?

Jax.
ick

71 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:15:49pm

re: #65 Lidane

What covers up the taste of the warm PBR?

when i lived in Chicago and didn't want to run up a big bar tab, i'd drink 3 parts PBR to 1 part lemonade in the summer. not too shabby.

72 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:16:03pm

re: #48 Eymerich

i'll take 'false dichotomy' for $500, alex

73 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:16:04pm

re: #66 Aceofwhat?

it's actually quite soft, surprisingly. they tend not to be terribly active, so there's a lot of marbling...

A Cheetos dust rub compliments the meat.

74 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:18:07pm

re: #73 Amory Blaine

A Cheetos dust rub compliments the meat.

Cheetos dry rub compliments a Slim Jim stuffing quite nicely.

75 [deleted]  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:21:03pm
76 jaunte  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:22:15pm

re: #75 Eymerich

Here, let me search that for you:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

77 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:22:18pm

re: #75 Eymerich

at the risk of delaying my pain au chocolat and my coffee, how would you describe the "left-wing" stance on Wikileaks these days?

78 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:23:03pm

re: #75 Eymerich

Sock puppet said what?

79 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:23:55pm

re: #75 Eymerich

Charles has no tuck with the organized GOP as it currently stands, that doesn't mean he views conservative ideas they support as bunk (for example being fiscally conservative) or being pro-Israel.

(Hope I'm not putting words in his mouth...)

80 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:24:55pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

Fairwell sweet troll mocking and troll quoting post, this world was never meant for one as beautiful as you....

81 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:30:33pm

And that's why you don't send troll for anything. Their life-span is too short.

82 jaunte  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:30:33pm

No expects the 2-post inquisition.

83 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:30:43pm

re: #63 BigPapa

Something delightfully rancid, yet unrefined. Warm Pabst Blue Ribbon seems to cover up the gameyness.

Went to an upscale restaurant in Solana Beach recently.

Soooo trendy.

They serve their 3.50 PBR in the can on a little plate with a white napkin.

oh geeze. And yes, some of the guys dining with us happily ordered it.

84 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:35:03pm

re: #83 Stanley Sea

Went to an upscale restaurant in Solana Beach recently.

Sooo trendy.

They serve their 3.50 PBR in the can on a little plate with a white napkin.

oh geeze. And yes, some of the guys dining with us happily ordered it.

Brushing with the hoi poloi how droll!!

85 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:35:28pm

re: #83 Stanley Sea

Went to an upscale restaurant in Solana Beach recently.

Sooo trendy.

They serve their 3.50 PBR in the can on a little plate with a white napkin.

oh geeze. And yes, some of the guys dining with us happily ordered it.

Solana beach down by San Diego? I am so jealous

86 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:36:59pm

re: #85 HoosierHoops

Solana beach down by San Diego? I am so jealous

My hood!

87 Amory Blaine  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:38:39pm

Last time I went to San Diego I went to Blacks beach and burned every inch of my Irish-Norwegian American body.

88 Lidane  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:39:50pm

re: #83 Stanley Sea

I know people who willingly drink PBR. It makes no damned sense.

89 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:41:16pm

re: #86 Stanley Sea

My hood!

I really could live on the beach at Oceanside and drink Starbucks my whole life..
/Legoland cracks me up

90 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:43:13pm

re: #87 Amory Blaine

Last time I went to San Diego I went to Blacks beach and burned every inch of my Irish-Norwegian American body.

One of my best memories is going to Blacks. What a time we had. And yes, we got fried.

91 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:44:15pm

re: #89 HoosierHoops

I really could live on the beach at Oceanside and drink Starbucks my whole life..
/Legoland cracks me up

My old neighbor put in the huge aquarium @ Legoland. One day I need to go at the opening hour (before there are too many kids, ha) to see it.

92 Mark Winter  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:44:44pm

Unfortunately I can't make up my mind - right or left wing - about the cables.

I think it's important that whistleblowers can reveal serious wrongdoings by any government, whatever classification the document has. This comes with the responsibility not to put anyone in harm's way.

I would suppose and hope that such information is better guarded. The cables have underwhelmed me. They look interesting for anyone studying history, they confirm a lot of things we already suspected but whether the publishing of all those files is really necessary I simply cannot say.

The drama around WL and Assange is definitely overblown and the - unwarranted - hysteric reaction of the U.S. government has given those files an exposure they probably shouldn't have gotten.

It should have been clear to U.S. official that once the files - which 2,5 million people had access to after all - there was no way to stop them from being know to the general public. Yet it was the U.S. government (and to a greater extent the right wing media) who really pushed that thing over the edge. Whatever happened to the Internet Czar, damage control and all that?

What if Hillary had said that all this was mainly embassy gossip and analysis embassy interns write?

Of these files only a fraction rises above the confidential level, and even those "secret" files are boring most of the time.

Instead they have hyped Assange's ego so much that he could commit suicide by climbing up his ego and jumping down.

Assange isn't doing "his" case any favor. If the media isn't doing its job it's good to have a free platform to go to, with people knowing what responsibility means. Assange instead is using Wikileaks to fight his personal crusade against the U.S. and adhering to some stupid hacker ethics that claims that every information need to be published.

No, it does not. Government needs control, but foreign policy cannot be conducted the way Assange wants it.

But it can be justified to publish even "top secret" info after careful review. Imagine a future U.S. government suppressing essential info on AGW, for example, and slapping a "top secret" on those docs.

Should we publish them? Hell yes, if we can.

93 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:45:27pm

I'm not particularly well suited to blazing beach sunlight either. I go from white, to bright red, to bright red and peeling, to white again within 48 hours.

I was denied whatever gene it is that actually allows for tanning. The closest I get is an armada of freckles conspiring to consume the bridge of my nose.

94 b_sharp  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:50:15pm

re: #93 Fozzie Bear

I'm not particularly well suited to blazing beach sunlight either. I go from white, to bright red, to bright red and peeling, to white again within 48 hours.

I was denied whatever gene it is that actually allows for tanning. The closest I get is an armada of freckles conspiring to consume the bridge of my nose.

My, never ever had a burn, because I turn brown in two seconds, wife laughs herself silly at my two minute blister burn with no tan.

95 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:51:22pm

re: #82 jaunte

No expects the 2-post inquisition.

Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again.

96 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:53:03pm

My sons took me and Zedushka out to lunch at a new fancy restaurant, just so I shouldn't pass my birthday in New York without a meal out. The food was meh, the service not so great, and the prices, need I say more?

OK now I am going to get dressed for my grandson's Bar Mitzvah, the reason that I came here in the first place. :)

97 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:53:27pm

re: #96 Alouette

My sons took me and Zedushka out to lunch at a new fancy restaurant, just so I shouldn't pass my birthday in New York without a meal out. The food was meh, the service not so great, and the prices, need I say more?

OK now I am going to get dressed for my grandson's Bar Mitzvah, the reason that I came here in the first place. :)

hope you're starting to feel better!

98 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:53:32pm

Is it wrong to envy black people for their ability to spend more than a couple of hours in bright sun? Racism aside, I feel like my pasty ass lost the genetic lottery sometimes.

These are the sorts of thoughts I really should keep to myself. I'll be the guy over in the corner, ashamed, with an umbrella, zinc paste all over his face, and a wide brimmed hat looking like some kind of beleaguered British tourist.

99 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:54:27pm

re: #97 Aceofwhat?

hope you're starting to feel better!

Better living through chemistry. :)

100 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:54:47pm

re: #92 Mark Winter

Unfortunately I can't make up my mind - right or left wing - about the cables.

I think it's important that whistleblowers can reveal serious wrongdoings by any government, whatever classification the document has. This comes with the responsibility not to put anyone in harm's way.

I would suppose and hope that such information is better guarded. The cables have underwhelmed me. They look interesting for anyone studying history, they confirm a lot of things we already suspected but whether the publishing of all those files is really necessary I simply cannot say.

The drama around WL and Assange is definitely overblown and the - unwarranted - hysteric reaction of the U.S. government has given those files an exposure they probably shouldn't have gotten.

It should have been clear to U.S. official that once the files - which 2,5 million people had access to after all - there was no way to stop them from being know to the general public. Yet it was the U.S. government (and to a greater extent the right wing media) who really pushed that thing over the edge. Whatever happened to the Internet Czar, damage control and all that?

What if Hillary had said that all this was mainly embassy gossip and analysis embassy interns write?

Of these files only a fraction rises above the confidential level, and even those "secret" files are boring most of the time.

Instead they have hyped Assange's ego so much that he could commit suicide by climbing up his ego and jumping down.

Assange isn't doing "his" case any favor. If the media isn't doing its job it's good to have a free platform to go to, with people knowing what responsibility means. Assange instead is using Wikileaks to fight his personal crusade against the U.S. and adhering to some stupid hacker ethics that claims that every information need to be published.

No, it does not. Government needs control, but foreign policy cannot be conducted the way Assange wants it.

But it can be justified to publish even "top secret" info after careful review. Imagine a future U.S. government suppressing essential info on AGW, for example, and slapping a "top secret" on those docs.

Should we publish them? Hell yes, if we can.

I think you're going a bit to far to say " Assange instead is using Wikileaks to fight his personal crusade against the U.S. and adhering to some stupid hacker ethics that claims that every information need to be published."

For the moment what I've seen of Assange (which I'll admit was one interview on the Colbert Report) argues that while he doesn't realize that some things are better left unsaid, I have yet to personally be convinced that his actions are being driven by a desire to bring harm to the US as oppose to abide by that "hacker code of ethics" you mentioned above...

What do you other lizards think and why do you think it?

101 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:55:42pm

re: #96 Alouette
Enjoy your grandson's Bar Mitzvah.

102 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:57:24pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

truth is truth. That's all I got.

Everyone so worked up (kill him! terrorist!) amuses me really.

Truth is truth. Bummer it got out.

103 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 2:58:25pm

re: #96 Alouette

a bar mitzvah is a very good mitzvah! enjoy!

104 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:00:33pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

I would say for the most part, the closest thing to a widely-held "hacker ethic" that there is out there would be the FOSS movement, which is more about the wide availability of algorithmic information (i.e., programs) than it is about other people's secrets.

if anything, I would say the bulk of the "hacker" set are more concerned with the privacy of information, not less.

The "information wants to be free" set care more about music/movies/programs than they do about state department memos.

There does exist a more extreme subset, but they aren't represented by Assange.

105 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:01:48pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

I think you're going a bit to far to say " Assange instead is using Wikileaks to fight his personal crusade against the U.S. and adhering to some stupid hacker ethics that claims that every information need to be published."

For the moment what I've seen of Assange (which I'll admit was one interview on the Colbert Report) argues that while he doesn't realize that some things are better left unsaid, I have yet to personally be convinced that his actions are being driven by a desire to bring harm to the US as oppose to abide by that "hacker code of ethics" you mentioned above...

What do you other lizards think and why do you think it?

Assange has been known to engage in selective editing to distort information, just as the idiot O'Keefe has done.

I think they're both dishonest and sneaky and sniveling, and I have no respect for either of them.

106 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:02:37pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

What do you other lizards think and why do you think it?

I think he's a pompous prick who has no intellectual depth whatsoever. He's not brave enough to release information about countries who might seriously consider shady action against him (but who might actually be plotting something significant or committing serious human rights abuses), isn't smart enough to realize that what he's leaked so far has had zero beneficial effect on the global community, isn't competent enough to avoid ham-handed editing or clumsily outing confidential sources, and apparently isn't man enough to keep his hands off of women.

107 Mark Winter  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:06:30pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

Maybe I'm going too far but it's not that everyone at WL is happy with is dictatorial style and the way he directs all his attention to the U.S. government.

Right now you couldn't leak other important stuff because WL is occupied.

I wish everybody would take it down two or three notches: WL and the U.S.

This "war" does not help us

108 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:07:00pm

no. california in rinse cycle this afternoon

109 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:07:17pm

re: #100 jamesfirecat

He's not following a hacker code of ethics, but a weird libertarianism of information. If he really thinks all information should be free, he should be publishing all of his emails and other such information constantly.

His interviews have clearly shown that he's anti-government. That's nothing to do with a hacker code of ethics.

I agree that I don't think that he's particularly anti-American as opposed to anti-government in general, but I do think he's a pussy for mainly going after the US.

110 FQ Kafir  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:08:19pm

For the lizards who don't know, WikiLeaks has a twitter account.

One of his latest tweets:

Obama must come clean or resign

111 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:08:26pm

re: #109 Obdicut

He's not following a hacker code of ethics, but a weird libertarianism of information. If he really thinks all information should be free, he should be publishing all of his emails and other such information constantly.

His interviews have clearly shown that he's anti-government. That's nothing to do with a hacker code of ethics.

I agree that I don't think that he's particularly anti-American as opposed to anti-government in general, but I do think he's a pussy for mainly going after the US.

///Well how many libertarians do you know who aren't pussies when you get right down to it?

112 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:08:44pm

re: #110 FQ Kafir

For the lizards who don't know, WikiLeaks has a twitter account.

One of his latest tweets:

Obama must come clean or resign

Sure that's not #tcot you've got there?

113 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:10:01pm

WL isn't, and never was, the problem.

The problem is shitty information security within the US government. Wikileaks could VERY easily be replaced by another method of getting information out there. IRC, Tor, Bittorrent, etc, there are a bajillion ways to distribute information.

There are, on the other hand, a limited amount of ways to get the information out there in the first place. The focus on Assange as culprit is misguided, and won't yield any real results. He might be the biggest dick in the world, but he didn't steal anything. He took what others stole and made it available, which is something ANYONE can do.

114 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:11:06pm

re: #110 FQ Kafir

For the lizards who don't know, WikiLeaks has a twitter account.

One of his latest tweets:

Obama must come clean or resign

Did you click the think in that tweet?
Here's what it leads to:

Obama should resign if approved UN spying: WikiLeaks founder
(AFP) – 51 minutes ago
MADRID — President Barack Obama should resign if it can be shown that he approved spying by US diplomatic figures on UN officials, the founder of WikiLeaks said in an interview published Sunday.

"The whole chain of command who was aware of this order, and approved it, must resign if the US is to be seen to be a credible nation that obeys the rule of law. The order is so serious it may well have been put to the president for approval," Julian Assange told Spanish daily El Pais.

"Obama must answer what he knew about this illegal order and when. If he refuses to answer or there is evidence he approved of these actions, he must resign," he added during an Internet chat interview published online.

115 Charles Johnson  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:11:40pm

When I commented that Assange is an "anarchist" the other day, I wasn't just tossing an insult -- if you read his own writings he was heavily influenced by anarchist philosophers. If he has any real politics at all, it's: "Smash the state, man." I think at one point he wrote that he wanted to destroy every single organ of government and start fresh and clean in a utopia where no one will ever need to have secrets.

116 reine.de.tout  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:12:54pm

And a tweet from "wikileaks" - clearly, here's what Assange was going for:
wikileaks WikiLeaks
'Wikileaks' now twice as known as well known as 'Wikipedia' according to Google.
4 Dec Favorite Retweet Reply

117 Mark Winter  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:13:07pm

Of course we don't know why WL does not publish Russian or Chinese classified info.

Maybe Russia and China simply guard their sensitive stuff better. Or when somebody obtains it he will rather sell it to U.S. intelligence.

More lucrative and you get more protection. I wouldn't want to worry about polonium in my food every day.

118 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:14:19pm

re: #116 reine.de.tout
Going for his fifteen minutes of fame?

119 engineer cat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:14:34pm

assange

i had always thought that if one was going to leak secret and potentially damaging information, it would behoove one to have a very good reason for it

assange seems to have missed that part

120 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:14:38pm

re: #115 Charles

When I commented that Assange is an "anarchist" the other day, I wasn't just tossing an insult -- if you read his own writings he was heavily influenced by anarchist philosophers. If he has any real politics at all, it's: "Smash the state, man." I think at one point he wrote that he wanted to destroy every single organ of government and start fresh and clean in a utopia where no one will ever need to have secrets.

Which is of course as foolish a view for a utopia as a collectivist state where the government will make sure that everyone is given just as much as everyone else and so no one need suffer from hunger ever again, or a conservative god fearing nation based around religious principles where people don't just obey the law, but also are made more moral by the governments control of their lives....

121 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:15:14pm

re: #115 Charles

When I commented that Assange is an "anarchist" the other day, I wasn't just tossing an insult -- if you read his own writings he was heavily influenced by anarchist philosophers. If he has any real politics at all, it's: "Smash the state, man." I think at one point he wrote that he wanted to destroy every single organ of government and start fresh and clean in a utopia where no one will ever need to have secrets.

Complete and utter douchebag.

122 jaunte  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:16:47pm

re: #116 reine.de.tout

Assange said he believed the "ripples are just starting to flow throughout the world" from the release of the State Department cables.

"But I believe geopolitics will be separated into pre and post cablegate phases," he said.[Link: www.google.com...]


In his mind he's the most important man in geopolitical history.

123 FQ Kafir  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:16:52pm

re: #114 reine.de.tout

Yes, I clicked it. He pretty much said the same thing about Hillary the other day.

My opinion is that Assange and Cablegate just gave a major gift to Hillary.

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:22:37pm

re: #110 FQ Kafir

For the lizards who don't know, WikiLeaks has a twitter account.

One of his latest tweets:

Obama must come clean or resign

Heh. He doesn't know when to stop, does he.

125 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:22:59pm

The function Assange performs, for good or ill, could just as easily be performed by Tor. He's just not important. At all.

But, don't think for a second that if Assange and WL is shut down, that this will somehow stop the broader phenomenon of information security breaches that Assange so desperately wishes he could be synonymous with.

126 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:24:52pm

re: #125 Fozzie Bear

The function Assange performs, for good or ill, could just as easily be performed by Tor. He's just not important. At all.

But, don't think for a second that if Assange and WL is shut down, that this will somehow stop the broader phenomenon of information security breaches that Assange so desperately wishes he could be synonymous with.

Yep. Tor or I2P or any other anonymous network that will readily spring up if needed. There is a WL mirror either on Tor or on I2P akshully, I forgot where.

127 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:25:48pm

re: #125 Fozzie Bear

re: #126 Sergey Romanov

Sex charges for all!

128 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:25:50pm

re: #124 Sergey Romanov

Please excuse the disparaging language. Diarrhea of the mouth or Athlete's tongue?

129 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:26:47pm

re: #128 PhillyPretzel

Logorrhea.

130 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:27:16pm

re: #127 Stanley Sea

LOLWUT

131 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:27:17pm

re: #120 jamesfirecat

Which is of course as foolish a view for a utopia as a collectivist state where the government will make sure that everyone is given just as much as everyone else and so no one need suffer from hunger ever again, or a conservative god fearing nation based around religious principles where people don't just obey the law, but also are made more moral by the governments control of their lives...

heh, that's funny, i was going to describe an anarchist utopian as a person whose grasp of history was as poor as a below-average member of the Texas Board of Education...

132 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:28:19pm

re: #129 Sergey Romanov
Okay. that works.

133 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:28:23pm

re: #130 Sergey Romanov

LOLWUT

If you can't get them through regular lawful means, fucking a, throw a sex charge at em.

134 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:30:25pm

re: #133 Stanley Sea

Heh. Kinda reminds me of what happened this summer. Someone released videos of a girl Katya having sex with some of the Russian opposition figures. Oy, that hurt.

135 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:30:53pm

re: #133 Stanley Sea

If you can't get them through regular lawful means, fucking a, throw a sex charge at em.

Eh, i don't know. Seems like every time a person grandstands on principle, there's a yucky sex story in there somewhere.

And besides - did Sweden really have anything to lose in the latest round of leaks?

136 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:32:30pm

re: #110 FQ Kafir

For the lizards who don't know, WikiLeaks has a twitter account.

One of his latest tweets:

Obama must come clean or resign

Do his socks smell?

137 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:33:17pm

re: #134 Sergey Romanov

Abs. NSFW.

138 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:33:45pm

I sure hope Assange enjoys the fact that he has finally unified every major government on Earth with making sure they have a tighter, more restricitive policy in regards to the Internet. I see a whole slew of new regulations regarding internet providers, shared networks, and web hosting in the near future.

139 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:35:04pm

re: #138 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I hope you are wrong, but you may be right. :(

140 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:36:31pm

re: #137 Sergey Romanov

Abs. NSFW.

For some context: one of the people is a (now former) editor of Russian Newsweek, another is a leader of a nationalist movement, another is a famous journalist, yet another - Eduard Limonov of NBP fame.

141 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:36:58pm

re: #133 Stanley Sea

Please don't assume that the charges made by the women are false or unwarranted just because a lot of people are happy about the sex charges.

The two things really have nothing to do with each other, except that the only reason we know about the charges are because he's a high-profile individual.

142 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:39:05pm

re: #135 Aceofwhat?

Eh, i don't know. Seems like every time a person grandstands on principle, there's a yucky sex story in there somewhere.

And besides - did Sweden really have anything to lose in the latest round of leaks?

To me it's the typical back door way. Al Capone example. Never for the murders. but for the tax evasion. Same with Martha Stewart (crazy comparison) Couldn't get her on inside trading, so get her for lying to investigators.

It's the slimy side of law.

Oh my! All of a sudden Assange is a sexual predator! oooh

143 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:40:49pm

re: #141 Obdicut

Please don't assume that the charges made by the women are false or unwarranted just because a lot of people are happy about the sex charges.

The two things really have nothing to do with each other, except that the only reason we know about the charges are because he's a high-profile individual.

ok, ok.

144 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:40:50pm

re: #131 Aceofwhat?

heh, that's funny, i was going to describe an anarchist utopian as a person whose grasp of history was as poor as a below-average member of the Texas Board of Education...

There are as many flavors of anarchy as there are of Christians. You do yourself a disservice when you lumped bomb throwers like Assange and Berkman in with folks like Bakunin and Anne Hutchinson.

145 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:41:47pm

re: #142 Stanley Sea

Al Capone really did evade taxes.

146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:41:55pm

re: #140 Sergey Romanov

This is apparently how the FSB works. Kind of a small joke. Then again, maybe it's just Nashi. I wonder what CIA can do.

147 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:42:24pm

re: #140 Sergey Romanov

Are sex scandals really a big deal in Russia?

148 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:44:28pm

re: #137 Sergey Romanov

Abs. NSFW.

wow, that wasn't safe for any location...i think i need to wash my eyes out with soap...

149 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:45:55pm

re: #147 Obdicut

Are sex scandals really a big deal in Russia?

Um. Depends. There's this. Then again, when it was revealed that Vasya Yakemenko slept with a 15-y.o. girl in Nashi's camp on Seliger, it was "big" only in the blogosphere, same as with the above clip. But then, as I wrote here, he has ties to a cruel gang and yet nothing happens, so people who are needed have a thick teflon cover.

150 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:46:32pm

re: #148 Aceofwhat?

Imagine what their wives said to them.

151 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:48:06pm

re: #145 Obdicut

152 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:48:39pm

re: #151 Stanley Sea

What? All I typed disappeared into the ether? ugh

153 lostlakehiker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:49:19pm

re: #98 Fozzie Bear

Is it wrong to envy black people for their ability to spend more than a couple of hours in bright sun? Racism aside, I feel like my pasty ass lost the genetic lottery sometimes.

These are the sorts of thoughts I really should keep to myself. I'll be the guy over in the corner, ashamed, with an umbrella, zinc paste all over his face, and a wide brimmed hat looking like some kind of beleaguered British tourist.

It's all about location. If you lived in Ireland pre-vitamin-D, you'd be very much at risk of rickets without that pasty skin to pass whatever little solar UV is available down to the D-machinery in your skin.

Living in many sunny areas of the globe, it's the other way around. Without dark skin, you're fixing to get burned frequently and severely, absent sunscreen, zinc oxide, etc. etc.

There are now technological fixes to both mismatches of skin tone with solar flux. Enjoy. Skin tone isn't the deciding factor in who can live where that it used to be.

154 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:49:39pm

re: #152 Stanley Sea
It happened to me a while ago.

155 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:49:57pm

re: #144 Jeff In Ohio

There are as many flavors of anarchy as there are of Christians. You do yourself a disservice when you lumped bomb throwers like Assange and Berkman in with folks like Bakunin and Anne Hutchinson.

eh. sometimes we lump Christians together, too/

(although your point is quite valid)

156 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:50:31pm

re: #152 Stanley Sea

What? All I typed disappeared into the ether? ugh

Bolton's mustache eated yer electrons.

157 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:50:46pm

re: #152 Stanley Sea

It's okay. I read between the lions.

158 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:51:02pm

re: #157 Obdicut

LOL

159 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:51:14pm

re: #145 Obdicut

Al Capone really did evade taxes.

True enough, but that's not really why they prosecuted him for evading taxes.

160 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:53:09pm

Ahh the original three tenors in concert. Even with PBS pledge breaks it is still good.

161 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:54:51pm

re: #160 PhillyPretzel

Ahh the original three tenors in concert. Even with PBS pledge breaks it is still good.

Three of the most amazing voices in a generation.

162 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:55:22pm

re: #159 Fozzie Bear

They prosecuted him for tax evasion and violations of the Volstead Act because those were federal crimes, and the Chicago police department and court system had been corrupted.

It wasn't a 'slimy' part of the law. It was simply the best way to get a conviction against him for his crimes.

163 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:55:42pm

re: #161 Fozzie Bear

Oh yes. And I am not a huge opera fan. It is a wonderful concert.

164 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:55:48pm

re: #156 goddamnedfrank

re: #157 Obdicut

It's okay. I read between the lions.

OMG, love it!

165 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:56:03pm

re: #161 Fozzie Bear

Three of the most amazing voices in a generation.

P.J. Harvey, Tom Waits, and Bjork?

166 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:56:52pm

re: #165 Obdicut
Carreras, Domingo, Pavarotti in Concert

167 FQ Kafir  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:57:09pm

One thing you can't argue...

Assange's choice to use the Wiki- prefix was masterful.

168 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:57:24pm

Right on schedule, Bolton and the rest of the wingnut minions jump on the "blame Obama first" bandwagon. I remember back in the Bush days one was severely chastised for attempting to blame anything on Bush. Most of them are still in denial about Valerie Plame.

169 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:57:50pm

I blame Obama for male pattern baldness. Fucker.

170 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:58:27pm

re: #169 Fozzie Bear
LOL

171 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:59:08pm

re: #142 Stanley Sea

To me it's the typical back door way. Al Capone example. Never for the murders. but for the tax evasion. Same with Martha Stewart (crazy comparison) Couldn't get her on inside trading, so get her for lying to investigators.

It's the slimy side of law.

Oh my! All of a sudden Assange is a sexual predator! oooh

Clinton was impeached for lying to congress.

What did he lie to congress about?

Something that while humiliating to admit to, was in no way illegal.

So yeah if Clinton had just said "Yes I had sex with that woman." And sat there smiling the second half of his term would have been completely different...

172 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:59:48pm

Hello LGF.

It's my daily...

Senator John McCain is a slimy panderer. Flip flops, lies, incoherence.

He soo moved the goalposts on DADT. What a (senile?) panderer.

12/05/2010

173 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 3:59:55pm

re: #171 jamesfirecat

Yes. It would have been different

174 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:01:03pm

re: #168 Gus 802

Right on schedule, Bolton and the rest of the wingnut minions jump on the "blame Obama first" bandwagon. I remember back in the Bush days one was severely chastised for attempting to blame anything on Bush. Most of them are still in denial about Valerie Plame.

Traitors! UnAmerican.

Us Dems will never forget. Well, at least I wont.

You're not with us, you're against us BS?

175 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:01:40pm

On a more serious note, Obama indirectly brings this shit upon himself. When he was running for president, he was a blank template upon which many projected their hopes. Now, due to his apparent unwillingness or inability to take a strong stand against his opponents, he has become a blank template upon which many project their fears.

Were he a stronger leader, less of the random shit thrown at him would stick.

(I voted for him, but I am disappointed in his seemingly endless willingness to "compromise" with the uncompromising.)

176 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:01:57pm

re: #174 Stanley Sea

Traitors! UnAmerican.

Us Dems will never forget. Well, at least I wont.

You're not with us, you're against us BS?

I think you forgot "disagreeing with the president in a time of war is unpatriotic!"

177 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:02:59pm

re: #175 Fozzie Bear

On a more serious note, Obama indirectly brings this shit upon himself. When he was running for president, he was a blank template upon which many projected their hopes. Now, due to his apparent unwillingness or inability to take a strong stand against his opponents, he has become a blank template upon which many project their fears.

Were he a stronger leader, less of the random shit thrown at him would stick.

(I voted for him, but I am disappointed in his seemingly endless willingness to "compromise" with the uncompromising.)

Yeah I wouldn't dislike him as much if he just wasted time trying to talk with Republicans, but the fact that he gives stuff away without getting anything for it, makes me think that I could do a better job negotiating...

178 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:03:16pm

re: #176 jamesfirecat

I think you forgot "disagreeing with the president in a time of war is unpatriotic!"

Does not apply to Kenyans.
///

179 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:03:52pm

re: #172 Stanley Sea

Hello LGF.

It's my daily...

Senator John McCain is a slimy panderer. Flip flops, lies, incoherence.

He soo moved the goalposts on DADT. What a (senile?) panderer.

12/05/2010

McCain feel far from the 2000 election. He started falling even more during the 2008 election campaign and further this year while competing against J.D. Hayworth in the GOP primary.

Now, after 10 long years we are seeing the worse of John McCain in the DADT hearing. He has lost his mind.

It's official then. John McCain is Mongo much like J.D. Hayworth.

180 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:04:09pm

re: #175 Fozzie Bear

There's a good piece about it at DK posted today.

181 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:06:08pm

re: #179 Gus 802

McCain feel far from the 2000 election. He started falling even more during the 2008 election campaign and further this year while competing against J.D. Hayworth in the GOP primary.

Now, after 10 long years we are seeing the worse of John McCain in the DADT hearing. He has lost his mind.

It's official then. John McCain is Mongo much like J.D. Hayworth.

MONGO STRAIGHT!

182 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:06:25pm

re: #169 Fozzie Bear

I blame Obama for male pattern baldness. Fucker.

otoh, it probably means that you have plenty of dihydrotestosterone. let's put some more weight on that bench press!

183 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:07:36pm

re: #182 Aceofwhat?

otoh, it probably means that you have plenty of dihydrotestosterone. let's put some more weight on that bench press!

More weight!!!!

Wait... that didn't work out so well for the other guy that said it.

184 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:07:36pm

re: #172 Stanley Sea

Hello LGF.

It's my daily...

Senator John McCain is a slimy panderer. Flip flops, lies, incoherence.

He soo moved the goalposts on DADT. What a (senile?) panderer.

12/05/2010

Pardon me while I whip this out. Already posted here, but it never gets old.

185 Interesting Times  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:08:12pm

re: #180 Sergey Romanov

There's a good piece about it at DK posted today.

I read that and it's absolutely sickening - if there existed a long-term conspiracy to drag the Overton Window so far to the right that moderate Republican policies are the only safe "liberal" positions to take, it's been a smashing success. That's why I think someone like Palin really could become president.

186 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:08:43pm

re: #176 jamesfirecat

I think you forgot "disagreeing with the president in a time of war is unpatriotic!"

OH YEAH.

187 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:08:54pm

re: #183 Fozzie Bear

More weight!!!

Wait... that didn't work out so well for the other guy that said it.

don't worry, i'm an excellent spotter. unless you slip. in that case, i'm excellent at dialing 911...

188 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:09:02pm

re: #174 Stanley Sea

Traitors! UnAmerican.

Us Dems will never forget. Well, at least I wont.

You're not with us, you're against us BS?

They laid themselves out quite a large "free speech zone". Being the GOP they are the true moral authority. They are more American, more religious, and more patriotic. It's the year of "Real Americans" and of course they toss out moral consistency because not only is Obama a liberal but because, he is a black American.

189 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:09:57pm

re: #183 Fozzie Bear

It worked out well. His stepsons got their inheritance.

Giles Corey rules.

190 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:10:07pm

P.J. Harvey...... sad imitation of Gwen Stefani

Tom Waits....... throat gravel.

Bjork? ........ really? She sucks.

191 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:10:34pm

re: #179 Gus 802

McCain feel FELL far from the 2000 election...

Yeesh.

192 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:10:54pm

re: #182 Aceofwhat?

The Chargers are losing to the RAIDERS. omg.

Watch #59 Brandon Siler...at least

193 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:11:25pm

re: #190 Mr Pancakes

P.J. Harvey... sad imitation of Gwen Stefani

Tom Waits... throat gravel.

Bjork? ... really? She sucks.

select all
copy
ctrl+tab
paste

194 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:11:32pm

re: #191 Gus 802
Spell checkers do not catch every mistake.

195 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:11:52pm

If Jerry Falwell were alive today the "new" John McCain would be there wiping his ass and getting him warm milk and massaging his feet.

196 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:12:14pm

re: #184 Sergey Romanov

Pardon me while I whip this out. Already posted here, but it never gets old.

LOL, never ever gets old. (my first time seeing, but wth)

197 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:12:27pm

re: #192 Stanley Sea

The Chargers are losing to the RAIDERS. omg.

Watch #59 Brandon Siler...at least

Joe Haden is dominating with the Browns, btw.

198 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:12:57pm

re: #190 Mr Pancakes

P.J. Harvey... sad imitation of Gwen Stefani

Tom Waits... throat gravel.

Bjork? ... really? She sucks.

Chris Cornell

Fiona Apple

Ceelo Green

199 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:13:12pm

re: #190 Mr Pancakes

P.J. Harvey... sad imitation of Gwen Stefani

You are joking, right?

Neither her music, nor her voice, bear any relationship to Gwen Stefani.

Are you thinking of someone else?

200 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:13:19pm

re: #198 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Chris Cornell

Fiona Apple

Ceelo Green

Much better choices

201 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:13:32pm

re: #195 Gus 802

If Jerry Falwell were alive today the "new" John McCain would be there wiping his ass and getting him warm milk and massaging his feet.

Dude... why did you have to shove that image in my head?

202 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:13:42pm

re: #196 Stanley Sea

That's what he does now, really. Singing to his vegetable electorate.

203 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:13:51pm

re: #186 Stanley Sea

OH YEAH.

Best clip I can find at least he says it near the end...

204 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:13:55pm

re: #199 Obdicut

You are joking, right?


[Video]Neither her music, nor her voice, bear any relationship to Gwen Stefani.

Are you thinking of someone else?

You are addressing me excuse me?

205 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:14:09pm

re: #197 Aceofwhat?

Joe Haden is dominating with the Browns, btw.

I follow that young kid on twitter. yeah!!!!!!!

206 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:15:12pm

I'm serious too. The reason being that I voted for that jackass McCain in 2008. After the stunt he pulled on JCS Admiral Mullen and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates I am embarrassed to admit that I ever voted for him. For that I will say this. I am sorry I ever voted for McCain. Please forgive me.

207 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:15:25pm

re: #204 Mr Pancakes

Syrup time!

208 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:15:37pm

re: #190 Mr Pancakes

Tom Waits... throat gravel.

WUT?! HERETIC!

The balm on my heart.

209 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:15:58pm

re: #206 Gus 802

I'm serious too. The reason being that I voted for that jackass McCain in 2008. After the stunt he pulled on JCS Admiral Mullen and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates I am embarrassed to admit that I ever voted for him. For that I will say this. I am sorry I ever voted for McCain. Please forgive me.

Hey don't sweat it we forgive Charles for the exact same sin don't we?

210 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:15:59pm

re: #206 Gus 802

I'm serious too. The reason being that I voted for that jackass McCain in 2008. After the stunt he pulled on JCS Admiral Mullen and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates I am embarrassed to admit that I ever voted for him. For that I will say this. I am sorry I ever voted for McCain. Please forgive me.

wait, which stunt? did i miss something during the week?

211 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:16:10pm

re: #207 Stanley Sea

Syrup time!

WRESTLING!

212 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:16:19pm

re: #204 Mr Pancakes

You are addressing me excuse me?

I would have thought that was obvious by the way that I replied to your post.

I've never heard anyone compare Gwen Stefani and P.J. Harvey before. They don't sound a thing alike.

213 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:16:46pm

re: #206 Gus 802

I'm serious too. The reason being that I voted for that jackass McCain in 2008. After the stunt he pulled on JCS Admiral Mullen and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates I am embarrassed to admit that I ever voted for him. For that I will say this. I am sorry I ever voted for McCain. Please forgive me.

I'm surprised Palin wasn't enough to convince you to stay home that day.

214 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:17:29pm

re: #206 Gus 802

I'm serious too. The reason being that I voted for that jackass McCain in 2008. After the stunt he pulled on JCS Admiral Mullen and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates I am embarrassed to admit that I ever voted for him. For that I will say this. I am sorry I ever voted for McCain. Please forgive me.

With your permission, I will use this statement on my daily John McCain is an ass post.

215 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:17:36pm

re: #210 Aceofwhat?

wait, which stunt? did i miss something during the week?

In a nutshell he questioned Admiral Mullens command and leadership both past and present. He also falsely claimed that Robert Gate never served in the military. Both of this was done openly in the Senate DADT hearing.

216 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:17:41pm

re: #210 Aceofwhat?

wait, which stunt? did i miss something during the week?

McCain's absurd and embarrassing tantrum during the DADT hearings.

217 Kronocide  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:17:42pm

re: #190 Mr Pancakes

P.J. Harvey... sad imitation of Gwen Stefani

Tom Waits... throat gravel.

Bjork? ... really? She sucks.

Oh shit, this could get nasty.

Gwen Stefani = Lindeman's Bin 65 Chardonnay
PJ Harvey = Don Julio 1942 anejo tequila
Tom Waits= Laphroig 10 year single malt

218 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:19:01pm

re: #212 Obdicut

I would have thought that was obvious by the way that I replied to your post.

I've never heard anyone compare Gwen Stefani and P.J. Harvey before. They don't sound a thing alike.

Oh... ok.... it's alright for you to address me when you requested that I don't address you....... gotcha nimrod.

What's wrong with you? Whatever it is it's probably hard to pronounce.

219 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:19:05pm

re: #213 JasonA

I'm surprised Palin wasn't enough to convince you to stay home that day.

I know. You know what I did though? I actually ignored Palin until I finally heard the Couric interview in January of 2009. That's when I had a "WTF I voted for that idiot?" moment. Plus I was drinking way too much in 2008.

220 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:19:35pm

re: #215 Gus 802

In a nutshell he questioned Admiral Mullens command and leadership both past and present. He also falsely claimed that Robert Gate never served in the military. Both of this was done openly in the Senate DADT hearing.

holy crap. and, i imagine, in service of a policy which should be stricken from the records with all possible haste?

221 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:19:46pm

re: #218 Mr Pancakes

Oh Christ get over yerself.

222 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:19:52pm

re: #215 Gus 802

In a nutshell he questioned Admiral Mullens command and leadership both past and present. He also falsely claimed that Robert Gate never served in the military. Both of this was done openly in the Senate DADT hearing.

Asshole. And thank you so very much for you fail of investigation of Palin. We are fucked because of you. Senator John McCain. Hero once, now?

223 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:20:00pm

re: #219 Gus 802

I know. You know what I did though? I actually ignored Palin until I finally heard the Couric interview in January of 2009. That's when I had a "WTF I voted for that idiot?" moment. Plus I was drinking way too much in 2008.

I can forgive you, but only because they lost.

Someday they might even start acting like it.

224 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:20:21pm

re: #218 Mr Pancakes

I asked you not to talk to me when you were creepily fantasizing about my death. If you can avoid doing that, talk to me all you like.

And Gwen Stefani and P.J. Harvey still sound absolutely nothing alike.

225 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:21:23pm

re: #221 Fozzie Bear

Oh Christ get over yerself.

NEVER!re: #224 Obdicut

I asked you not to talk to me when you were creepily fantasizing about my death. If you can avoid doing that, talk to me all you like.

And Gwen Stefani and P.J. Harvey still sound absolutely nothing alike.

Gawd you're goofy....... What am I? Flypaper to the goofii?

226 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:21:42pm

re: #210 Aceofwhat?

wait, which stunt? did i miss something during the week?

[Link: thinkprogress.org...]

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]

227 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:21:44pm

I take on the Dark Falcon persona.

Chill brothers! NOW

228 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:21:55pm

re: #220 Aceofwhat?

holy crap. and, i imagine, in service of a policy which should be stricken from the records with all possible haste?

One that he once said he would consider if the Joints Chiefs of Staff recommended it to him and the Senate. John McCain, "I was for it before I was against it."

229 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:22:26pm

To validate my earlier nominees;

230 blueraven  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:22:32pm

re: #199 Obdicut

You are joking, right?


[Video]Neither her music, nor her voice, bear any relationship to Gwen Stefani.

Are you thinking of someone else?

More like a bad imitation of Patti Smith.

231 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:22:44pm

Joints should be Joint.

232 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:22:53pm

re: #227 Stanley Sea

I take on the Dark Falcon persona.

Chill brothers! NOW

Say "bitch be cool."

SAY "BITCH, BE COOL!"

233 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:23:04pm

re: #228 Gus 802

Poor John Kerry. He gave an honest, if absurdly inartful, answer, and will forever be the poster boy for waffling as a result.

234 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:23:34pm

re: #230 blueraven

More like a bad imitation of Patti Smith.

Yea...... works for me..... PJ never had any success.

235 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:24:14pm

re: #233 Fozzie Bear

Poor John Kerry. He gave an honest, if absurdly inartful, answer, and will forever be the poster boy for waffling as a result.

The Swift Boating of John Kerry was one of the worst political smear jobs in American political history.

236 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:25:15pm

re: #235 Gus 802

The Swift Boating of John Kerry was one of the worst political smear jobs in American political history.

Don't forget what happened to Max Cleland too.

237 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:25:46pm

re: #228 Gus 802

One that he once said he would consider if the Joints Chiefs of Staff recommended it to him and the Senate. John McCain, "I was for it before I was against it."

Wow. Yeah, i remember that.

Oh, wait, this is why we have civilian leadership over the military. So that they can, you know, lead.

238 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:26:05pm

re: #220 Aceofwhat?

holy crap. and, i imagine, in service of a policy which should be stricken from the records with all possible haste?

Yeah see for yourself as Jon Stewart Slams the point home...

239 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:26:08pm

re: #236 recusancy

Don't forget what happened to Max Cleland too.

Who?

240 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:26:21pm

re: #233 Fozzie Bear

Poor John Kerry. He gave an honest, if absurdly inartful, answer, and will forever be the poster boy for waffling as a result.

I mean, couldn't he have just said "Well, I changed my mind because I realized I was wrong"? Noooooo he had to go and say "I was for it before I was against it."

That was a serious facepalm moment for me. I can still remember sitting at my kitchen table watching the Bush/Kerry debates, my head resting in my hand, at that moment fully realizing that we would have four more years of Bush because the DNC candidate was about as verbally coordinated as President Ford was physically.

241 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:26:22pm

re: #229 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cee-Lo's voice is really fucking astonishing. I love his stuff.

I'm also a sucker for these guys, too:

242 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:27:23pm

re: #235 Gus 802

The Swift Boating of John Kerry was one of the worst political smear jobs in American political history.

John Kerry is a douchebag. He deserved what he got.

243 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:27:37pm

PJ first published in '87, No Doubt's first album came in '92. Just sayin'.

Bevis and Butthead listening to PJ Harvey Size of Me:

244 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:27:41pm

re: #239 JasonA

Who?

[Link: lmgtfy.com...]

245 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:27:59pm

re: #242 rwdflynavy

John Kerry is a douchebag. He deserved what he got.

Go fuck yourself.

246 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:28:31pm

re: #242 rwdflynavy

What was done to him didn't just injure him, so that's a moot point.

247 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:28:34pm

re: #244 recusancy

[Link: lmgtfy.com...]

Heh.

Bite me. :)

248 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:28:38pm

re: #236 recusancy

Don't forget what happened to Max Cleland too.

2000. Of course Bush had to stab McCain in the back several times especially in South Carolina. Then they proceeded to smear Kerry. Year later, McCain forgave Bush and like a fool hugged him in public. Nice folks.

249 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:28:39pm

re: #245 recusancy

Go fuck yourself.

No thanks.

250 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:28:47pm

re: #242 rwdflynavy

John Kerry is a douchebag. He deserved what he got.

Nobody in a presidential election deserves to have lies told about them, not even Sarah Palin.

251 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:28:54pm

re: #241 Obdicut

Cee-Lo's voice is really fucking astonishing. I love his stuff.

I'm also a sucker for these guys, too:


[Video]

I had my mom singing along to the "Fuck You" song (and dancing) the other day. If you knew my mom, trust me, it's a funny sight.

252 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:29:30pm

re: #235 Gus 802

The Swift Boating of John Kerry was one of the worst political smear jobs in American political history.

Eh, we'll never know the actual truth, which is likely somewhere in between.

Still, grandstanding on the backs of his fellow servicemen isn't exactly a point in his favor.

253 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:29:53pm

re: #242 rwdflynavy

John Kerry is a douchebag. He deserved what he got.

No he didn't. Most of what you heard about Kerry was pure 100 percent bullshit. Pure disinformation based on fabrications. Granted there is room to oppose Kerry but the Swift Boating was out of line.

254 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:30:44pm

re: #252 Aceofwhat?

Eh, we'll never know the actual truth, which is likely somewhere in between.

Still, grandstanding on the backs of his fellow servicemen isn't exactly a point in his favor.

Oh hey, maybe one side was telling the truth and the other was pulling BS out of their ass to try and start a meme which would prove useful to them in the coming election!

The truth isn't always in the middle.

255 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:31:02pm

re: #253 Gus 802

No he didn't. Most of what you heard about Kerry was pure 100 percent bullshit. Pure disinformation based on fabrications. Granted there is room to oppose Kerry but the Swift Boating was out of line.

So he released his military records to clear his name right? No he didn't. He broke his promise.

Like I said, deserved what he got.

256 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:31:21pm

re: #253 Gus 802

No he didn't. Most of what you heard about Kerry was pure 100 percent bullshit. Pure disinformation based on fabrications. Granted there is room to oppose Kerry but the Swift Boating was out of line.

Yeabutt.... I only buy Hunt's catchup now because of his wife.

257 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:31:22pm

re: #252 Aceofwhat?

No, the truth is not likely somewhere in between.

It's fine to dislike Kerry for his actions of throwing his medals away. Or for any other reason.

But casting doubt on whether or not he deserved the medals he won, doubt sown by men who were not present at the time, most of whom didn't serve with him, and most of whom can be easily shown to be politically motivated-- that is low, low, low. And it harms every other member of the military to do so.

It was an awful, terrible smear. I wish I could say it was a low point in US politics, but it was rather the sign at the top of the slope.

258 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:31:23pm

re: #250 jamesfirecat

Nobody in a presidential election deserves to have lies told about them, not even Sarah Palin.

It's not that they were lies. It's that his service to his country was desecrated. Max Cleland's was even more egregious. It's why Bush will forever be scum.

259 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:31:27pm

re: #253 Gus 802

No he didn't. Most of what you heard about Kerry was pure 100 percent bullshit. Pure disinformation based on fabrications. Granted there is room to oppose Kerry but the Swift Boating was out of line.

Jerome Corsi is a stain on the underwear of journalism.

260 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:31:32pm

re: #252 Aceofwhat?

Eh, we'll never know the actual truth, which is likely somewhere in between.

Still, grandstanding on the backs of his fellow servicemen isn't exactly a point in his favor.

We do know that the swftboat thing was complete and utter fabrication of bullshit. There's no excuse for it. the people who did that are lower than snakeshit.

261 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:32:03pm

re: #255 rwdflynavy

So he released his military records to clear his name right? No he didn't. He broke his promise.

Like I said, deserved what he got.

Using that logic then Bush got what he deserved. Did Bush ever completely release his National Guard records? Or his record at Yale?

262 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:32:08pm

re: #254 jamesfirecat

Oh hey, maybe one side was telling the truth and the other was pulling BS out of their ass to try and start a meme which would prove useful to them in the coming election!

The truth isn't always in the middle.

the key word in your post is "maybe". it also works in other sentences, like "maybe when we don't know for sure we ought to act like we don't know for sure".

263 theheat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:32:22pm

re: #251 Fozzie Bear

My mom asked me where you could get one of those fuck you shirts, the ones that say fuck this, that, everything, and fill the entire front and back of the shirt with all kinds of foul stuff.

My mom is going on 70, doesn't "do" typos, and has perfect diction.

264 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:32:24pm

re: #255 rwdflynavy

So he released his military records Birth Certificate to clear his name right? No he didn't. He broke his promise.

Like I said, deserved what he got.


FTFY....

265 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:32:24pm

re: #252 Aceofwhat?

Eh, we'll never know the actual truth, which is likely somewhere in between.

Still, grandstanding on the backs of his fellow servicemen isn't exactly a point in his favor.

I heard you have sex with goats. What's that, you say you don't? The truth is probably somewhere in between.

266 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:32:37pm

re: #240 Fozzie Bear

I mean, couldn't he have just said "Well, I changed my mind because I realized I was wrong"? Nooo he had to go and say "I was for it before I was against it."

That was a serious facepalm moment for me. I can still remember sitting at my kitchen table watching the Bush/Kerry debates, my head resting in my hand, at that moment fully realizing that we would have four more years of Bush because the DNC candidate was about as verbally coordinated as President Ford was physically.

It ranks up there with this exchange:

- You tell me: what happened with your submarine?
- It sunk.
267 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:33:12pm

Who can forget this image from the 2008 campaign?

Image: kerry-fonda-rally.jpg

268 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:33:23pm

re: #265 recusancy

I heard you have sex with goats. What's that, you say you don't? The truth is probably somewhere in between.

In Ace's case it probably depends on how you define "sex."

269 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:33:33pm

re: #264 jamesfirecat

FTFY...

Hey, he promised it. Lied. Again.

270 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:33:42pm

re: #262 Aceofwhat?

the key word in your post is "maybe". it also works in other sentences, like "maybe when we don't know for sure we ought to act like we don't know for sure".

Actually, there is no "maybe" about the charges levied against Kerry re: the swift boat "incident". They have been fully revealed to be fabrications.

271 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:34:01pm

re: #266 Sergey Romanov

It ranks up there with this exchange:

Or

"It depends what your definition of 'is' is...

Which I hear actually made perfect sense and was a reasonable question to ask in context...

272 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:34:12pm

Care to comment on that image? Guess what? It's a Photoshop. A complete fabrication.

[Link: www.snopes.com...]

273 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:36:01pm

re: #269 rwdflynavy

Hey, he promised it. Lied. Again.

And Obama "promised" us that he'd do away with Gitmo.

The people who run for office can't always live up to their promises, this doesn't justify knowingly lying about their past.

274 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:36:09pm

re: #235 Gus 802

The Swift Boating of John Kerry was one of the worst political smear jobs in American political history.

Support the Troops!!! falls so flat after that.

275 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:36:17pm

Hey. Kerry isn't perfect. But the reality is that Kerry could have died in Vietnam while Bush was busy getting drunk, snorting coke, and putting vodka in fish aquariums. Not that there's anything wrong with getting drunk and snorting coke.

276 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:36:50pm

re: #274 Stanley Sea

Support the Troops!!! falls so flat after that.

Reminiscent of Genghis Khan...

277 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:37:11pm

Kerry 2012!
/What are we fighting about?

278 elizajane  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:37:56pm

re: #235 Gus 802

The Swift Boating of John Kerry was one of the worst political smear jobs in American political history.

To me, that was the moment that defined Republican shamelessness.

You've got a candidate who managed to stay out of active service by pulling strings and being well-connected? Then accuse his opponent, a highly decorated veteran, of cowardice and duplicity. Of not being enough of a hero.

It's a strategy they have continued to use, with amazingly good results.

279 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:37:59pm

re: #242 rwdflynavy

John Kerry is a douchebag. He deserved what he got.

Support the troops. Till they disagree with your warmongering mindset.

god I hate this stance.

280 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:38:15pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Kerry 2012!
/What are we fighting about?

Holdover wingnuts still spouting bullshit. Nothing new.

281 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:38:15pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Kerry 2012!
/What are we fighting about?

PJ Harvey's sucky-ness.

282 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:38:27pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Kerry 2012!
/What are we fighting about?

We're fighting about the apologists for scum bags who desecrated the service of war veteran.

283 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:38:37pm

re: #276 rwdflynavy

Reminiscent of Genghis Khan...

So Kerry didn't have the right to express himself under the 1st Amendment protections of free speech?

You know, Norm Coleman was an anti-war protester during the Vietnam War. Unlike Kerry, Norm Coleman was state side smoking pot and drinking beer.

284 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:39:02pm

re: #268 JasonA

In Ace's case it probably depends on how you define "sex."

now THAT is how it's done.

285 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:39:53pm

re: #283 Gus 802

So Kerry didn't have the right to express himself under the 1st Amendment protections of free speech?

You know, Norm Coleman was an anti-war protester during the Vietnam War. Unlike Kerry, Norm Coleman was state side smoking pot and drinking beer.

He absolutely had that right. Likewise, I have the right to consider him a douchebag. Cambodia, Christmas Eve, I still have the hat!

286 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:40:06pm

re: #277 Killgore Trout

Kerry 2012!
/What are we fighting about?

Jhonn F'n Krrey,swfft bots, RARG!!!

/channeling the ghost of lizards past

287 Stanghazi  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:40:09pm

re: #253 Gus 802

No he didn't. Most of what you heard about Kerry was pure 100 percent bullshit. Pure disinformation based on fabrications. Granted there is room to oppose Kerry but the Swift Boating was out of line.

This is so fucking true. Dupes.

288 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:40:23pm

re: #242 rwdflynavy

John Kerry is a douchebag. He deserved what he got.

He was on Meet the Press this morning and he was awesome. Mostly talking about the Republican agenda to keep the tax cuts for the top 1% earners permanent. He put Mitch McConnell in his place who kept evading the issue and wouldn't talk about what they're discussing on the Hill.

Kerry speaks after McConnell and said this among othrethings:

SEN. KERRY: Well, David, I think that there will be an agreement because yesterday's vote made it very, very clear this enormous divide between the Republicans and the Democrats. The Republicans are fighting to keep in place a tax policy that has failed over the last eight years. It has failed. We have had a net loss of jobs, and what we've seen is a Republican Party that's absolutely prepared to deny unemployment insurance to people who have been laid off, who can't pay their bills, who want to, you know, put food on the table for their families. They've said, "No, we're willing to hold that hostage so that we can give the wealthiest people in the country a bonus tax cut." And what I mean by that is, you know, people aren't focused on the fact that, under the Democratic proposal, everybody in America got a tax cut. The wealthiest people in America got a tax cut, up to the $250,000 of income. What they're fighting for is to give those people who earned more than a million dollars a year a bonus tax cut above that, even though it's the least effective way of creating jobs and, and putting impact into the economy.

289 Aceofwhat?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:40:53pm

alrighty, i'm gonna go...uhhh..."pet" my goat. peace, all.

290 darthstar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:41:17pm

Evenin' goat fuckers...what's up?

291 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:41:30pm

re: #286 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Jhonn F'n Krrey,swfft bots, RARG!!!

/channeling the ghost of lizards past

This is why politics is dirty. People could care less after a few years no matter how dirty and shameless you play. There's no consequences.

292 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:42:08pm

re: #278 elizajane

To me, that was the moment that defined Republican shamelessness.

You've got a candidate who managed to stay out of active service by pulling strings and being well-connected? Then accuse his opponent, a highly decorated veteran, of cowardice and duplicity. Of not being enough of a hero.

It's a strategy they have continued to use, with amazingly good results.

Ms Hotair herself on CNN intoning that Kerry had managed to (on purpose) shoot himself in the head with a bazooka and live just to get one of his purple hearts.......... (a bazooka......really, on purpose, in the head).

All that made me mad as hell - a pox on the house of all those who side with Jerome Corsi.

293 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:42:20pm

re: #285 rwdflynavy

He absolutely had that right. Likewise, I have the right to consider him a douchebag. Cambodia, Christmas Eve, I still have the hat!

OK, well. I'm just arguing with you anyway. It's not like I said you can't call him a douche bag.

294 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:42:27pm

re: #275 Gus 802

Hey. Kerry isn't perfect. But the reality is that Kerry could have died in Vietnam while Bush was busy getting drunk, snorting coke, and putting vodka in fish aquariums. Not that there's anything wrong with getting drunk and snorting coke.

Only if you're considering a run for Pres ;)

295 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:42:38pm

re: #257 Obdicut

No, the truth is not likely somewhere in between.

It's fine to dislike Kerry for his actions of throwing his medals away. Or for any other reason.

But casting doubt on whether or not he deserved the medals he won, doubt sown by men who were not present at the time, most of whom didn't serve with him, and most of whom can be easily shown to be politically motivated-- that is low, low, low. And it harms every other member of the military to do so.

It was an awful, terrible smear. I wish I could say it was a low point in US politics, but it was rather the sign at the top of the slope.

Larry Thurlow is such a shameless liar:

In newspaper interviews and a best-selling book, Larry Thurlow, who commanded a Navy Swift boat alongside Kerry in Vietnam, has strongly disputed Kerry's claim that the Massachusetts Democrat's boat came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory on March 13, 1969. Kerry won a Bronze Star for his actions that day.

But Thurlow's military records, portions of which were released yesterday to The Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act, contain several references to "enemy small arms and automatic weapons fire" directed at "all units" of the five-boat flotilla. Thurlow won his own Bronze Star that day, and the citation praises him for providing assistance to a damaged Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

re: #255 rwdflynavy

So he released his military records to clear his name right? No he didn't. He broke his promise.

Like I said, deserved what he got.

Kerry's citations were released along with Larry Thurlow's, and they corroborate each other, you pig ignorant lying piece of trash.

296 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:43:13pm

re: #293 Gus 802

OK, well. I'm just arguing with you anyway. It's not like I said you can't call him a douche bag.

Thanks Gus!

297 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:43:24pm

Support our (straight) troops!

298 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:43:42pm

re: #292 wozzablog

Ms Hotair herself on CNN intoning that Kerry had managed to (on purpose) shoot himself in the head with a bazooka and live just to get one of his purple hearts... (a bazooka...really, on purpose, in the head).

All that made me mad as hell - a pox on the house of all those who side with Jerome Corsi.

How... the fuck... do you shoot yourself in the head with a bazooka?

299 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:43:54pm

re: #293 Gus 802

OK, well. I'm just arguing with you anyway. It's not like I said you can't call him a douche bag.

John McCain and John Kerry are both douche bags....... now I should be everyone's friend.

300 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:44:13pm

re: #297 JasonA

Support our (straight) troops!

Until they stop serving.............

301 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:44:26pm

re: #298 Fozzie Bear

How... the fuck... do you shoot yourself in the head with a bazooka?

There's an app for that.

302 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:45:03pm

re: #299 Mr Pancakes

John McCain and John Kerry are both douche bags... now I should be everyone's friend.

No argument from me!

303 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:45:23pm
304 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:45:43pm

re: #295 goddamnedfrank

Larry Thurlow is such a shameless liar:

re: #255 rwdflynavy

Kerry's citations were released along with Larry Thurlow's, and they corroborate each other, you pig ignorant lying piece of trash.

Easy GDF, you'll blow a gasket!

305 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:46:09pm

re: #297 JasonA

Support our (straight) troops!

Well obviously if they're straight they can't just "support" themselves!

306 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:47:05pm

re: #298 Fozzie Bear

How... the fuck... do you shoot yourself in the head with a bazooka?

Fire it straight up.

307 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:47:23pm

re: #298 Fozzie Bear

How... the fuck... do you shoot yourself in the head with a bazooka?

Don't ask me.

He got one purple heart for a self inflicted wound when a piece of kit he was using discharged (presumably blow back or misfire).

Ms Hotair decided that meant he tried to shoot himself inthe head with a bazooka. She just kept repeating "self inflicted wound" "self inflicted wound"....... when ever the host said "are you saying he did it on purpose", she just said the report said the wound was "self inflicted".

Ms Hotair is Pond scum.

308 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:47:56pm

re: #295 goddamnedfrank

Memory is such a fragile thing that I wouldn't necessary call Thurlaw a liar, I seem to recall (heh) that he was genuinely surprised by the released documents.

309 darthstar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:47:57pm

Y'all may not like Kerry much, but he did rip the Republicans a new asshole today on MTP.

SEN. KERRY: I think it's critical for people to understand what the Republican--how bankrupt, how fundamentally reckless their position is and has been. And the fact is--I mean, let me go a little bigger here for a minute. Our country is challenged economically as never before. You know, people talk about American exceptionalism and how there's sort of this automatic for America. Yes, we are exceptional, but we're exceptional when we do exceptional things, when we behave exceptionally. We're not doing that today. We're locked down into a gridlock status where other countries are racing by us. I'll give you an example. Over the next 20 years, $600 billion is going to be invested in green technology and green energy. New jobs. New jobs that could be for Americans. Ninety percent of that investment's going to be in other countries, David.

310 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:48:24pm

re: #303 recusancy

'I Cried Uncontrollably for 2 1/2 Years'

T. Boone Pickens never served either.

311 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:48:26pm

re: #303 recusancy

'I Cried Uncontrollably for 2 1/2 Years'

How Bush could so shamelessly smear such an incredible man, is beyond me. That made me so incredibly angry, and just reading it again makes me angry again.

It's hardly a surprise he turned out to be such a piece of shit as president.

312 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:48:59pm

re: #309 darthstar

Y'all may not like Kerry much, but he did rip the Republicans a new asshole today on MTP.

I like Kerry. He ran an awful/scared/defensive campaign. But he's come into his own since.

313 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:49:06pm

re: #309 darthstar


What you didn't tell them is that there's probably another 50 pages of him talking from that interview...

/

314 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:49:43pm

re: #311 Fozzie Bear

How Bush could so shamelessly smear such an incredible man, is beyond me. That made me so incredibly angry, and just reading it again makes me angry again.

It's hardly a surprise he turned out to be such a piece of shit as president.

Yup.

315 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:49:46pm

re: #311 Fozzie Bear

How Bush could so shamelessly smear such an incredible man, is beyond me. That made me so incredibly angry, and just reading it again makes me angry again.

It's hardly a surprise he turned out to be such a piece of shit as president.

Jean Schmidt too.

316 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:51:00pm

re: #304 rwdflynavy

Easy GDF, you'll blow a gasket!

I'll take that as an admission that you're a greasy slithering little troll turd with no defense whatsoever for the bullshit you've been spewing in this thread. You have no reason not to have known better, you made a conscious decision to lie while wearing a simpering smile.

Trash, pure trash.

317 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:51:25pm

re: #311 Fozzie Bear

I'm not on board with Kerry being an incredible man. To me, he was a very weird pick as presidential candidate, and he's another mostly corporatist Democrat.

But I'm fully on board with the idea that the Swift Boat smear was an incredibly douchetastic, weird as hell, shameless incident that did a great deal of damage to the state of political discourse. If the GOP had rejected it when it came up, they wouldn't suffering a lot of the problems they are now.

318 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:51:30pm

If a vet turns into a democrat there obviously must be something wrong with their record.

What really happened on PT 109...?

319 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:51:38pm

By the way folks if I ever make a Jon McCain opposing DADT troll cat it would be hard because how exactly do you really show "old" in a cat, it's a lot harder to do than with a human what with them having fur and all

That's what I thought until I started looking a pictures of hairless cats of course!

Image: sphynxface.jpg

I think there's a passing resemblance, am I right?

320 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:52:07pm

re: #317 Obdicut

I'm talking about Cleland. I like Kerry, but he's not a hero of mine or anything like that.

321 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:52:36pm

re: #319 jamesfirecat

No, I love Sphynx. Use this.

Image: 399px-Tired_20-year-old_cat.jpg

322 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:53:00pm

re: #320 Fozzie Bear

Ah, okay. Yes, Cleland really is an amazing human being, and the attack against him was even more fucking disgusting.

323 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:53:21pm

I mentioned Kerry and everything blew up!

/

324 darthstar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:53:38pm

Heh...Sarah Palin's IQ: 83

Okay...turns out it was a fake, but it's still fun to throw out there.

325 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:53:47pm

re: #318 JasonA

If a vet turns into a democrat there obviously must be something wrong with their record.

What really happened on PT 109...?

///Are you really gonna believe that JFK swam to safety dragging a fellow crewman with just his teeth? Really?

326 darthstar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:54:50pm

re: #313 JasonA

What you didn't tell them is that there's probably another 50 pages of him talking from that interview...

/

Brevity is the soul of wit. Kerry doesn't have a lot of soul. But he has been pretty good responding to Republicans since his milquetoast campaign in 2004.

327 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:54:52pm

re: #325 jamesfirecat

I heard it wasn't his teeth, if you know what I mean.

Time for a history lesson.

JFK:

(NSFW)

328 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:55:00pm

re: #318 JasonA

If a vet turns into a democrat there obviously must be something wrong with their record.

What really happened on PT 109...?

Hey. Everybody knows that all true war veterans are Republicans.

//

329 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:55:03pm

re: #325 jamesfirecat

///Are you really gonna believe that JFK swam to safety dragging a fellow crewman with just his teeth? Really?

Considering your age I'm kind of impressed that you got that reference.

330 darthstar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:55:31pm

re: #312 recusancy

I like Kerry. He ran an awful/scared/defensive campaign. But he's come into his own since.

Yep. The way to beat Bush in 2004 was to go on the offense. Kerry didn't do that.

331 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:55:34pm

Lee Marvin was a Democrat.

332 bratwurst  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:55:35pm

re: #323 Gus 802

I mentioned Kerry and everything blew up!

/


Whatever you do, don't mention Immyjay Artercay...if you can understand Pig Latin.

334 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:56:49pm

re: #316 goddamnedfrank

I'll take that as an admission that you're a greasy slithering little troll turd with no defense whatsoever for the bullshit you've been spewing in this thread. You have no reason not to have known better, you made a conscious decision to lie while wearing a simpering smile.

Trash, pure trash.

I'm still waiting for you to show where Kerry released his military record, not one award citation.

Reading is fundamental GDF.

335 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:56:55pm

re: #332 bratwurst

Whatever you do, don't mention Immyjay Artercay...if you can understand Pig Latin.

Ogeray. I won't mention Laay Oregay either.

336 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:57:16pm

re: #325 jamesfirecat

///Are you really gonna believe that JFK swam to safety dragging a fellow crewman with just his teeth? Really?

No, no, he chopped off his own arms and legs to make himself smaller, then ingested them, then pulled himself and 10 injured men through a small hole in the wall using only his penis and his teeth in a bizarre move known only as "the trebuchet", then hurled himself through the hole, regurgitated his severed limbs, and finally sewed them back on using a combination of jungle vines and jaguar saliva.

337 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:57:21pm

re: #327 Obdicut

1:03! 1:03!!

338 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:57:25pm

re: #329 JasonA

Considering your age I'm kind of impressed that you got that reference.

It is well before my time and I never learned it in school...

Luckily there is always cracked....

[Link: www.cracked.com...]

339 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:58:11pm

re: #336 Fozzie Bear

No, no, he chopped off his own arms and legs to make himself smaller, then ingested them, then pulled himself and 10 injured men through a small hole in the wall using only his penis and his teeth in a bizarre move known only as "the trebuchet", then hurled himself through the hole, regurgitated his severed limbs, and finally sewed them back on using a combination of jungle vines and jaguar saliva.

Wait, are we supposed to be drinking tonight?

340 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 4:58:32pm

re: #339 JasonA

Wait, are we supposed to be drinking tonight?

You missed the memo?

341 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:01:09pm

re: #334 rwdflynavy

I'm still waiting for you to show where Kerry released his military record, not one award citation.

Reading is fundamental GDF.

[Link: news.findlaw.com...]

It's rather extensive. They also have some of Bush's records there at that link. You can read his dental records.

/

342 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:02:01pm

re: #317 Obdicut

I'm not on board with Kerry being an incredible man. To me, he was a very weird pick as presidential candidate, and he's another mostly corporatist Democrat.

But I'm fully on board with the idea that the Swift Boat smear was an incredibly douchetastic, weird as hell, shameless incident that did a great deal of damage to the state of political discourse. If the GOP had rejected it when it came up, they wouldn't suffering a lot of the problems they are now.

He's a very good man and I'm ashamed of myself for listening to a lot of BS rhetoric about him, here and elsewhere.

I always say that Kerry is a wonderful liberal, but he's more than that. He's a wonderful public servant for this country starting from his anti-war activism in the early 70s. No one wanted us in that war by then except for Nixon and his goons.

You know he was also a pivotal part of exposing Ollie North and the Iran/Contra scandal. His office did their own investigations.

They want to hate on Kerry because he's a good liberal.

343 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:02:02pm

Military Records of Lieutenant (Junior Grade) John F. Kerry for U.S. Navy Military Service During The Vietnam War, 1968 - 1969 Note: Kerry was promoted to (Full) Lieutenant on Jan. 1, 1970 prior to requesting a discharge

* Purple Heart Awards (3) (PDF) For wounds received in action on Dec. 2, 1968, Feb. 20, 1969, and Mar. 17, 1969
* Silver Star (PDF) For displaying "courage under fire, outstanding leadership, and exemplary professionalism" while acting as the Officer in Charge of a Tactical Command on Feb. 28, 1969.
* Bronze Star (PDF) For "professionalism, great personal courage under fire, and complete dedication to duty" in rescuing, while wounded, a man overboard following a mine explosion, directing his gunners to provide supporting fire for the rescue, and towing a damaged boat to safety under enemy fire on March 13, 1969
* Acceptance of Discharge Naval Reserve (PDF) July 13, 1978
* Background Information (PDF) Feb. 1, 1966
* Bupers Orders to Gridley (PDF) Nov. 17, 1966
* Change of Duty (PDF) July 8, 1968
* DD214 (PDF)
* Duty Recommendations (PDF)
* Emergency Data (PDF) Sept. 12, 1967
* Enlistment Contract (PDF) Feb. 18, 1966
* Enlistment Photo (PDF) Dec. 16, 1966
* Fitness Reports (PDF) Apr. 12, 1967
* Honorable Discharge from Reserve (PDF) Feb. 16, 1978
* Leave Record (PDF)
* National Defense Service Medal (PDF)
* Naval Messages (PDF) Dec. 8, 1969
* Naval OCS Report (PDF)
* Nuclear Weapons Training Certificate (PDF) For training from May 8 - 11, 1967
* Office Order Memos (PDF) Dec. 5, 1969
* Officer Candidate Agreement (PDF) Feb. 18, 1966
* Order to Officer Candidate (PDF) July 14, 1966
* Pay Entry Base Date (PDF) Listed as Feb. 18, 1966
* Personnel Casualty Report (PDF)
* Presidential Unit Citation (PDF) "For Extraordinary Herosim" from Dec. 6, 1968 to Mar. 31, 1969
* Qualifying Questionnaire (PDF) Oct. 16, 1970
* Recommendations for Next (PDF) Nov. 24, 1969
* Record of Discharge (PDF)
* Release From Active Duty (PDF) Jan. 2, 1970
* Report of Home of Record (PDF) Dec. 1966
* Request for History of Service (PDF) May 24, 1986
* Request for Swiftboat Duty (PDF) Feb. 10, 1968
* Research Sheet F4-15 (PDF) June 21, 1967
* Reserve Office Appointment (PDF) Dec. 16, 1966
* Security Clearances (PDF) Dec. 16, 1966
* Service Record (PDF) Prepared Jan. 25, 1985
* Serviceman's Life Insurance (PDF) Dec. 8-9, 1968
* Statement of Service (PDF) June 21, 1967
* Thrice Wounded Reassignment (PDF) March 17, 1969
* Top Secret Clearance (PDF) April 28, 1969
* Training School Record (PDF) Feb. 18, 1968
* Transfer to Standby Reserve (PDF) March 1, 1972
* Travel Payment Order (PDF) Undated
* Vietnam Service Medal (PDF) April 8, 1968
(Source: John Kerry for President, Inc.).

344 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:02:34pm

re: #343 Gus 802

Yeah, but why didn't he release the long form?

345 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:02:35pm

re: #334 rwdflynavy

I'm still waiting for you to show where Kerry released his military record, not one award citation.

Reading is fundamental GDF.

Here you go, it takes two seconds on google, which you're either too stupid to do for yourself, or too dishonest to admit having already done. The release is only more than five years old after all.

346 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:02:39pm

And here are the ones for Bush. ;)


* Jan. 6, 1973 USAF Dental Exam Record for 1st Lt. George W. Bush (HTML) [PDF version] Released by White House on Feb. 11, 2004
* Memorandum of Lt. Col. Albert C. Lloyd, Jr. (Ret.) (HTML) [PDF version] (Analysis of Military Payroll Records for George W. Bush for service from 1972 to 1973) Released by White House on Feb. 10, 2004
* USAF Reserve Personnel Record Card for 1st Lt. George W. Bush (HTML) [PDF version] (Covers period from 27 May 1972 to 26 May 1973) Released by White House on Feb. 10, 2004
* ARF 1st Statement of Points Earned by 1st Lt. George W. Bush (1972-1973) (HTML) [PDF version] Released by White House on Feb. 10, 2004
* ARF 2nd Statement of Points Earned by 1st Lt. George W. Bush (1973) (HTML) [PDF version] Released by White House on Feb. 10, 2004
* Military Payroll Records of 1st Lt. George W. Bush (1972-1973) (HTML) [PDF version] Released by White House on Feb. 10, 2004
347 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:03:28pm

Here's the military record for Karl Rove...

(_|_)

348 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:04:26pm

re: #342 marjoriemoon

He's a very good man and I'm ashamed of myself for listening to a lot of BS rhetoric about him, here and elsewhere.

I always say that Kerry is a wonderful liberal, but he's more than that. He's a wonderful public servant for this country starting from his anti-war activism in the early 70s. No one wanted us in that war by then except for Nixon and his goons.

You know he was also a pivotal part of exposing Ollie North and the Iran/Contra scandal. His office did their own investigations.

They want to hate on Kerry because he's a good liberal.

Hating on people because they're good liberals unquestionably happens, (not saying it happened in Kerry's case) look at how much hate their is for Nancy Pelosi and how little reason their is besides the fact that she gets the f***ing job done in the house...

349 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:04:30pm

Good Night to my fellow Lizards

350 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:04:49pm

re: #343 Gus 802

For accuracies sake, he didn't release all of that during the campaign, but after.

However, there was nothing being hidden.

351 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:05:46pm

re: #334 rwdflynavy

I'm still waiting for you to show where Kerry released his military record, not one award citation.

Reading is fundamental GDF.

You do realize that you are parroting a talking point that never had any basis whatsoever in fact, don't you?

His record is and was a matter of public record. Gus posted it above.

Fucking wingnuts. they REFUSE to even look at evidence right in front of them. It's like reality is the enemy or something.

352 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:06:17pm

re: #341 Gus 802

[Link: news.findlaw.com...]

It's rather extensive. They also have some of Bush's records there at that link. You can read his dental records.

/

I stand corrected. I had been lead to believe he never released them. Should have googled. Mea Culpa.

353 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:06:23pm

re: #350 Obdicut

For accuracies sake, he didn't release all of that during the campaign, but after.

However, there was nothing being hidden.

True. But that's pretty typical. I think John Kerry's military record is a lot like Obama's birth certificate.

354 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:06:28pm

re: #351 Fozzie Bear

You do realize that you are parroting a talking point that never had any basis whatsoever in fact, don't you?

His record is and was a matter of public record. Gus posted it above.

Fucking wingnuts. they REFUSE to even look at evidence right in front of them. It's like reality is the enemy or something.

KDS is as KDS does.

355 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:06:58pm

re: #348 jamesfirecat

Hating on people because they're good liberals unquestionably happens, (not saying it happened in Kerry's case) look at how much hate their is for Nancy Pelosi and how little reason their is besides the fact that she gets the f***ing job done in the house...

It looked like it was going to rain today. I'm sure that was Obama's fault.

356 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:07:14pm

re: #352 rwdflynavy

I stand corrected. I had been lead to believe he never released them. Should have googled. Mea Culpa.

Google is your friend. Well, unless you're Chinese.

//

357 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:07:19pm

re: #347 Gus 802

Here's the military record for Karl Rove...

(_|_)

Here let me put in a song format....

358 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:08:39pm

re: #353 Gus 802

True. But that's pretty typical. I think John Kerry's military record is a lot like Obama's birth certificate.

BTW correct me if I'm wrong, but we'll see the long form in 2012 given the birther-pushed laws, right?

359 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:09:10pm

re: #357 jamesfirecat

Here let me put in a song format...


[Video]

or.........

360 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:09:42pm

re: #342 marjoriemoon

He's a very good man and I'm ashamed of myself for listening to a lot of BS rhetoric about him, here and elsewhere.

I always say that Kerry is a wonderful liberal, but he's more than that. He's a wonderful public servant for this country starting from his anti-war activism in the early 70s. No one wanted us in that war by then except for Nixon and his goons.

You know he was also a pivotal part of exposing Ollie North and the Iran/Contra scandal. His office did their own investigations.

They want to hate on Kerry because he's a good liberal.

re: #342 marjoriemoon

He's a very good man and I'm ashamed of myself for listening to a lot of BS rhetoric about him, here and elsewhere.

I always say that Kerry is a wonderful liberal, but he's more than that. He's a wonderful public servant for this country starting from his anti-war activism in the early 70s. No one wanted us in that war by then except for Nixon and his goons.

You know he was also a pivotal part of exposing Ollie North and the Iran/Contra scandal. His office did their own investigations.

They want to hate on Kerry because he's a good liberal.

I didn't know Kennedy and Johnson were Nixon goons.//

361 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:10:02pm

re: #358 Sergey Romanov

BTW correct me if I'm wrong, but we'll see the long form in 2012 given the birther-pushed laws, right?

If it exists... (cue dramatic chipmunk)

362 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:10:07pm

From Snopes.

Claim: John Kerry's Vietnam War service medals (a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts) were earned under "fishy" circumstances.

Status: FALSE

363 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:10:23pm

re: #360 rwdflynavy

re: #342 marjoriemoon

I didn't know Kennedy and Johnson were Nixon goons.//

He said in the early 70's, Kennedy wasn't even alive at that point...

364 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:10:28pm

John Bolton is weapons grade stupid, well done, mustachehole

365 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:11:06pm

re: #353 Gus 802

True. But that's pretty typical. I think John Kerry's military record is a lot like Obama's birth certificate.

Ah Haa! It's a certificate of live birth, so it doesn't count!!
//

366 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:11:23pm

Ok this is a completely random linux question, so if nobody knows the answer, don't let this derail conversation, but:

My Google-fu is failing me. Is there a way to keep cron from writing to /var/log/auth.log every hour even if it doesn't run any jobs that hour? (Meaning, I want to keep cron logging on, but only for those hours when it actually runs a job.)

I've nearly given up.

367 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:11:44pm

re: #361 JasonA

I just want to taste the tears of birthers, so yummy and sweet. /

368 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:11:52pm

re: #242 rwdflynavy

John Kerry is a douchebag. He deserved what he got.

lol, guess I missed this

369 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:12:17pm

re: #342 marjoriemoon

He's a very good man and I'm ashamed of myself for listening to a lot of BS rhetoric about him, here and elsewhere.

I always say that Kerry is a wonderful liberal, but he's more than that. He's a wonderful public servant for this country starting from his anti-war activism in the early 70s. No one wanted us in that war by then except for Nixon and his goons.

You know he was also a pivotal part of exposing Ollie North and the Iran/Contra scandal. His office did their own investigations.

They want to hate on Kerry because he's a good liberal.

The problem was his wife, and that he looked like "Lurch" from the Addams Family.

370 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:12:51pm

re: #368 WindUpBird

lol, guess I missed this

By all means WUB, pile on. I still think Kerry is a douche, but I was wrong about getting what he deserved.

371 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:13:16pm

re: #369 Mr Pancakes

The problem was his wife, and that he looked like "Lurch" from the Addams Family.

Yeah, he and his family aren't exactly star material, to put it mildly.

372 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:14:00pm

re: #367 Sergey Romanov

I just want to taste the tears of birthers, so yummy and sweet. /

Salty and bitter, bro.

373 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:14:07pm

re: #360 rwdflynavy

re: #342 marjoriemoon

I didn't know Kennedy and Johnson were Nixon goons.//

Nixon was president in the early 70s when Kerry started his activism.

We went into that war thinking it was a good thing to do. It turned at to be a terrible thing, and a very long and costly war for us, namely for the 1000s of men who gave their lives.

374 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:14:31pm

re: #190 Mr Pancakes

P.J. Harvey... sad imitation of Gwen Stefani

Tom Waits... throat gravel.

Bjork? ... really? She sucks.

thius is the dumbest post of the thread

"Nick Cave, a sad imitation of Third Eye Blind"

375 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:15:08pm

re: #370 rwdflynavy

By all means WUB, pile on. I still think Kerry is a douche, but I was wrong about getting what he deserved.

just sorta took me by surprise is all!

376 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:15:50pm

Another Snopes page on Kerry.

Although the men quoted above are often identified as "John Kerry's shipmates," only one of them, Steven Gardner, actually served under Lt. Kerry's command on a Swift boat. The other men who served under Kerry's command continue to speak positively of him...

So you have only one, count 'em, one guy that actually served under Kerry on a Swift Boat. Media Matters reports otherwise:

Gardner admitted that "he was not on the boat with Kerry during the incidents for which Kerry got his medals," reported The Columbus Dispatch on August 6. And as a guest on Michael Savage's radio show, Savage Nation, on August 2, Gardner said that of Kerry's three Purple Hearts, he could only attest to the first; Gardner later admitted to Savage that he was "not on the boat with him [Kerry]" when that injury occurred.

Quiet the cluster fuck they created. It also involved Michael Savage and Glenn Beck. The same media assholes behind smearing Obama were behind smearing Kerry.

377 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:16:04pm

re: #374 WindUpBird

thius is the dumbest post of the thread

"Nick Cave, a sad imitation of Third Eye Blind"

I had let it slide.

Two of my meat space gal pals would have had aneurysms.

378 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:16:10pm

re: #375 WindUpBird

just sorta took me by surprise is all!

It's fun to get the bottom comment every now and again. Gotta keep the karma from getting too high. I am a Republican after all...
//

379 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:16:51pm

re: #374 WindUpBird

thius is the dumbest post of the thread

"Nick Cave, a sad imitation of Third Eye Blind"

"thius" you should stay in Portland and get rained on.

Nick Cave sucks too.... sorry.

380 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:17:23pm

re: #369 Mr Pancakes

The problem was his wife, and that he looked like "Lurch" from the Addams Family.

They made fun of him, of course, and took his wife down with him. Like politicians do, but the relentless attack on his war record was one of the worst spectacles brought on by the Republicans.

381 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:17:28pm

re: #379 Mr Pancakes

"thius" you should stay in Portland and get rained on.

Nick Cave sucks too... sorry.

haha of course he does, lol

382 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:17:38pm

re: #378 rwdflynavy

It's fun to get the bottom comment every now and again. Gotta keep the karma from getting too high. I am a Republican after all...
//

This dovetails nicely with the original comment about someone getting what they deserved, no?

383 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:17:52pm

re: #378 rwdflynavy

It's fun to get the bottom comment every now and again. Gotta keep the karma from getting too high. I am a Republican after all...
//

Don't blame it on being Republican. Blame it on your own ignorance.

384 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:18:21pm

Godflesh is just a sad imitation of REO Speedwagon

385 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:18:38pm

re: #383 recusancy

Don't blame it on being Republican. Blame it on your own ignorance.

What, no "go fuck yourself" this time? You've got quite the way with words.//

386 darthstar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:19:13pm

re: #384 WindUpBird

Godflesh is just a sad imitation of REO Speedwagon

Who would want to imitate REO Speedwagon?

387 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:19:45pm

re: #378 rwdflynavy

It's fun to get the bottom comment every now and again. Gotta keep the karma from getting too high. I am a Republican after all...
//

No, but seriously, now that you know what you know about the swift boat thing, don't you think it was a shitty thing to do to smear him like that? I know you don't like Kerry, but is completely fabricating stories about the guy, whole cloth, acceptable? Is it ok to take someone's military record and trash it based on lies?

Do you want the kind of person who would do that to be president?

388 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:19:53pm

re: #384 WindUpBird

Godflesh is just a sad imitation of REO Speedwagon

How dare you you defile Godflesh!

389 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:19:57pm

Das Ich is just a sad imitation of Erasure

390 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:20:24pm

re: #371 Fozzie Bear

Yeah, he and his family aren't exactly star material, to put it mildly.

I guess he has no pizazz, but what kind of pizazz did McCain have? George Bush? I guess George was the Every Day guy. Clinton was an Every Day guy. Although two completely different days!

Maybe people want to feel like they could have a beer with their president or they aren't worth being president. But you know, that's pretty stupid.

391 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:20:39pm

re: #389 WindUpBird

Das Ich is just a sad imitation of Erasure

Das Ich? They have an ointment for that.

392 elizajane  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:20:44pm

BTW, I think that the verb "beclown" should not only be entered as a new tag on LGF, but should be nominated for the OED's next "Words of the Year" award. It actually contributes something to the English language, is much neater than "makes an asshat of himself."

Unlike say "refudiate" which is just a malapropism that people liked because a brainless celebrity said it.

393 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:20:48pm

re: #387 Fozzie Bear

Nope. I agree it was a shitty thing to do.

394 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:21:51pm

re: #390 marjoriemoon

Americans want the president to be a mensch, but they also want him to be cunning and harder than diamonds. Those qualities don't always go together.

395 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:22:12pm

re: #389 WindUpBird

Das Ich is just a sad imitation of Erasure

Who is Goat Whore a sad imitation of?

I heard them on Sirius radio driving around last Christmas time with my autistic son at 4am. Couldn't believe it was the name a real group...

396 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:23:40pm

Unfit for Command:

At the same time the book was being criticized, Swift Vets and POWs for Truth group was being criticized because "None of those in the attack ad by the Swift Boat group actually served on Kerry's boat. And their statements are contrary to the accounts of Kerry and those who served under him."

After controversial statements made by Corsi became public, O'Neill denied Corsi's coauthorship of the book, saying that Corsi was "simply an editor and not really any sort of co-author." However, portions of the book contain material also found in articles posted under Corsi's name at WinterSoldier.com, a website critical of John Kerry, and O'Neill is cited in a later book as describing Corsi as helping to write "Unfit for Command," and urging him to back out of media appearances after the controversial comments became public.

You should recognize that name, Jerome Corsi.

397 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:24:06pm

Swiftboating of Kerry
Birthers...

398 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:24:42pm

re: #380 marjoriemoon

They made fun of him, of course, and took his wife down with him. Like politicians do, but the relentless attack on his war record was one of the worst spectacles brought on by the Republicans.

A part of the problem was that he made his claims re American war crimes after serving only about 4 months in Vietnam.

He also drew grief when he pushed to end the missing POW hearings and investigations. That was immediately followed by his family's investment in Vietnam.

Lots of bad PR.

399 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:24:44pm

re: #396 Gus 802

Jerom F'n Freeper Corsi.

400 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:24:56pm

re: #383 recusancy

Don't blame it on being Republican. Blame it on your own ignorance.

what a sweet comment...undies bunched again?

401 darthstar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:25:31pm

Okay...Pittsburgh v. Baltimore is more interesting than John Kerry or the swift boat fucktards.

Later kids.

402 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:26:53pm

re: #387 Fozzie Bear

No, but seriously, now that you know what you know about the swift boat thing, don't you think it was a shitty thing to do to smear him like that? I know you don't like Kerry, but is completely fabricating stories about the guy, whole cloth, acceptable? Is it ok to take someone's military record and trash it based on lies?

Do you want the kind of person who would do that to be president?

when and how were those accusations proven?....Kerry folded like a napkin, why?....he was going to bring out the truth

403 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:26:54pm

re: #397 Gus 802

Swiftboating of Kerry
Birthers...

Guest on Alex Jones more than a couple of times...

404 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:26:55pm

MMFA investigates: Who is Jerome Corsi, co-author of Swift Boat Vets attack book?

While much has been written about the identity and history of John E. O'Neill -- one of the authors of the forthcoming Regnery book Unfit for Command: Swift Boat Veterans Speak Out Against John Kerry (whose links in the GOP go back to his days as "protégé of Nixon-era dirty trickster Charles Colson") -- little has been said about his co-author, Jerome R. Corsi, PhD.

* Corsi on Islam: "a worthless, dangerous Satanic religion"

* Corsi on Catholicism: "Boy buggering in both Islam and Catholicism is okay with the Pope as long as it isn't reported by the liberal press"

* Corsi on Muslims: "[bigoted word]S are Boy-Bumpers as clearly as they are Women-Haters -- it all goes together"

* Corsi on "John F*ing Commie Kerry": "After he married TerRAHsa, didn't John Kerry begin practicing Judiasm? He also has paternal grandparents that were Jewish. What religion is John Kerry?"

* Corsi on Senator "FAT HOG" Clinton: "Anybody ask why HELLary couldn't keep BJ Bill satisfied? Not lesbo or anything, is she?"

Unfit for Command has received wide media coverage recently, in part because of hype on The Drudge Report and the website Human Events Online, which is offering a sample chapter via e-mail, and in part as a result of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth's new attack ad on Kerry's service in Vietnam. The book has skyrocketed to the top of the Amazon.com "Top Sellers" list, as of August 6...

405 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:26:58pm

re: #398 researchok

A part of the problem was that he made his claims re American war crimes after serving only about 4 months in Vietnam.

He also drew grief when he pushed to end the missing POW hearings and investigations. That was immediately followed by his family's investment in Vietnam.

Lots of bad PR.

"A part of the problem was that he made his claims re American war crimes after serving only about 4 months in Vietnam."

What do you mean by this argument exactly?

That you have to have been in Vietnam at least 6 months before you could possibly have seen a warcrime?

406 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:27:09pm

re: #4 jamesfirecat

"Finally, the Pentagon’s cyber-warriors need target practice in this new form of combat, and they could long ago have practised by obliterating WikiLeaks’ electrons."

The internet is not a big truck its a series of tubes!

On that point I agree with Bolton. We should knock Wikileaks offline. I view it as worth the potential damage.

407 Mark Winter  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:27:24pm

Maybe Assange should claim that he has Obama's REAL birth certificate (Kenia, for example), but it's classified as top secret. What to do with it?

Then watch Fox explode

408 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:27:41pm

re: #397 Gus 802

Swiftboating of Kerry
Birthers...

He's also the nut job who thinks oil is created continuously in the earth and that we'll never run out of it. On top of that I think he's a truther too.

409 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:28:15pm

re: #406 Dark_Falcon

On that point I agree with Bolton. We should knock Wikileaks offline. I view it as worth the potential damage.

You should see my face the next time you cry about the government getting too big and powerful, DF.

410 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:28:42pm

re: #408 recusancy

He's also the nut job who thinks oil is created continuously in the earth and that we'll never run out of it. On top of that I think he's a truther too.

Yep, here's Jerome Corsi @ LGF.

411 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:28:44pm

re: #406 Dark_Falcon

On that point I agree with Bolton. We should knock Wikileaks offline. I view it as worth the potential damage.

I'm just arguing that even if he is saying something that one might agree with he said it in an incredibly stupid way.

I take it you can agree with me on that Dark?

412 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:29:10pm

re: #406 Dark_Falcon

On that point I agree with Bolton. We should knock Wikileaks offline. I view it as worth the potential damage.

The damage would ultimately be to your ability to use the internet anonymously and securely.

413 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:29:24pm

re: #405 jamesfirecat

"A part of the problem was that he made his claims re American war crimes after serving only about 4 months in Vietnam."

What do you mean by this argument exactly?

That you have to have been in Vietnam at least 6 months before you could possibly have seen a warcrime?

It means that many who were there far longer did not see anything to substantiate Kerry's claims. John Kerry defamed his nation to advance his political career and that is all there is to it.

414 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:29:49pm

shoot the messenger....works often enough to try I guess

415 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:29:55pm

Swiftboating
Birthers
Troofers
Alex Jones
World Net Daily
Clinton Conspiracies

It's all from the same wingnut factory.

416 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:30:43pm

re: #411 jamesfirecat

I'm just arguing that even if he is saying something that one might agree with he said it in an incredibly stupid way.

I take it you can agree with me on that Dark?

That I can agree to.

417 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:30:49pm

re: #409 JasonA

You should see my face the next time you cry about the government getting too big and powerful, DF.

THIS

418 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:30:53pm

re: #415 Gus 802

Swiftboating
Birthers
Troofers
Alex Jones
World Net Daily
Clinton Conspiracies

It's all from the same wingnut factory.

don't forget creationists, maybe the worst of the lot...fucking nutters

419 Fart Knocker  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:31:39pm

Good Night Lizards!

420 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:31:54pm

re: #405 jamesfirecat

"A part of the problem was that he made his claims re American war crimes after serving only about 4 months in Vietnam."

What do you mean by this argument exactly?

That you have to have been in Vietnam at least 6 months before you could possibly have seen a warcrime?

I don't mean anything by that.

All I'm saying is that a lot of the fuel against Kerry came about because he was only in combat for 4 months, testified in front of Congress as if he were an expert, etc. As to the substance of the testimony, I can't say.

In any event, 4 months is not a whole lot of time. He also testified at the My Lai hearings, despite not having been there.

421 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:32:01pm

John O'Neill. Main author of "Unfit for Duty":

The PBS program Frontline covered O'Neill's ongoing effort to discredit Kerry in an October 2004 report titled The Choice 2004.

According to "Be Honest," ideamouth.com, 2004: "John O'Neill, the leader of the swiftboat veterans 'for truth' is on record as having lied about the role of the swift boat operators in Cambodia. In 1971, this was his videotaped conversation with Nixon [Scroll down to segment.]:

O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.
NIXON: In a swift boat?
O'NEILL: Yes, sir.

"However, he later claimed that no one could cross the border by river and he claimed in an audio tape that his publicist played to CNN that he, himself, had never been to Cambodia either."

"One would think that O'Neill, as the leader of this group, would actually have known something about Kerry's service - especially after reading an OP-Ed he wrote, entitled: 'I was on Mr. Kerry's boat in Vietnam. He doesn't deserve to be commander in chief.' However, he did not serve with Kerry. He arrived in Vietnam after Kerry had already left. O'Neill provided $25,000 of the group's funding."

422 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:33:13pm

re: #412 Fozzie Bear

The damage would ultimately be to your ability to use the internet anonymously and securely.

We should not be anonymous or secure from the military's Cyber Command.

423 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:33:23pm

re: #421 Gus 802

John O'Neill. Main author of "Unfit for Duty":

whole thing = crock of shit.

424 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:34:00pm

re: #420 researchok

I don't mean anything by that.

All I'm saying is that a lot of the fuel against Kerry came about because he was only in combat for 4 months, testified in front of Congress as if he were an expert, etc. As to the substance of the testimony, I can't say.

In any event, 4 months is not a whole lot of time. He also testified at the My Lai hearings, despite not having been there.

those riverine guys had it about as easy as it gets

425 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:35:09pm

re: #423 wozzablog

whole thing = crock of shit.

why didn't Kerry prove them otherwise?...he said he would....some serious charges to just blow off, let alone the presidency

426 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:35:17pm

re: #398 researchok

A part of the problem was that he made his claims re American war crimes after serving only about 4 months in Vietnam.

He also drew grief when he pushed to end the missing POW hearings and investigations. That was immediately followed by his family's investment in Vietnam.

Lots of bad PR.

Kerry served from 1966-1970. After that time he started his anti-war activism. I don't know where you got that.

As to the POW hearings, McCain also was skeptical that there were any POWs left behind, but you don't hear about that.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Running the committee was seen as politically risky for Kerry, and one that his advisors recommended he not do.[10][11][12] Indeed, as Bob Kerrey later said, "Nobody wanted to be on that damn committee. It was an absolute loser. Everyone knew that the POW stories were fabrications, but no one wanted to offend the vet community."[9]

And yet, they did work with the Vietnamese government to access their records and declassified over a million pages of documents.


The committee was responsible for getting the Department of Defense to declassify over one million pages of documents.[22] Kerry and McCain and others were able to get the Vietnamese government to give full access to their records.[22] The committee had full-time investigators or delegations stationed in Moscow and other parts of Russia, North Korea, and Southeast Asia.[23] In all, the committee would conduct over 1000 interviews, take over 200 sworn depositions, and hold over 200 hours of public hearings.[23] Some of the hearings were telecast on C-SPAN.[23]

The senators' work was often hands-on. Smith would get leads about possible whereabouts of a POW, and then Kerry would follow up on them.[24] Because of Kerry's activities with Vietnam Veterans Against the War, the North Vietnamese deemed him honorable and opened their facilities to him.[24] There had been persistent reports of U.S. prisoners held under the Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum in Hanoi or in nearby tunnels;[24] Smith had stated in hearings that the Vietnamese Defense Ministry had an underground prison in its compound near the mausoleum, which a Vietnamese official called "a myth and an affront to the people of Vietnam."[25] Kerry and Smith were personally led through a patchwork of tunnels and catacombs under Hanoi, until Smith was satisfied that no Americans were being held there.[24] The number of live-sighting searches, include those on short notice, sometimes led to Vietnamese officials accusing the whole process of being a cloak for espionage.[25]

His family investing in Vietnam, I never heard, but it what does that have to do with it? He was a soldier who enlisted himself, not drafted.

427 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:35:23pm

re: #424 albusteve

those riverine guys had it about as easy as it gets

Lots of truth to that, I've heard.

To be clear, ASW is a long way from that theater, so I shall stay....distant.

428 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:35:38pm

re: #420 researchok

I don't mean anything by that.

All I'm saying is that a lot of the fuel against Kerry came about because he was only in combat for 4 months, testified in front of Congress as if he were an expert, etc. As to the substance of the testimony, I can't say.

In any event, 4 months is not a whole lot of time. He also testified at the My Lai hearings, despite not having been there.

If you were serving, and within 4 months saw stuff committed by your own side that was beyond the pale - would you stand up and say something?.

429 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:35:50pm

Regarding John Bolton. He was essentially fired from his position as United States Ambassador to the United Nations

In office: August 1, 2005 – December 9, 2006

Barely over a year in office.

Oh, and before I forget:

Bolton supported the Vietnam War and enlisted in the Maryland Army National Guard, but did not serve in Vietnam.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

430 Mark Winter  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:36:13pm

re: #406 Dark_Falcon

Maybe you could knock Wikileaks offline (for a while), but not the info.
It's out there. And there are a thousand ways to spread it.

431 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:36:20pm

hey DF, how about Da Bears?...awesome, and Cutler gets better every week
(while Denver goes into the tank)

432 sizzleRI  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:36:22pm

re: #413 Dark_Falcon

It means that many who were there far longer did not see anything to substantiate Kerry's claims. John Kerry defamed his nation to advance his political career and that is all there is to it.

But many did agree and substantiated Kerry's claims. It is not like he is the only Vietnam vet to make these types of claims.

433 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:36:26pm

re: #424 albusteve

those riverine guys had it about as easy as it gets

Not true. there were ambushes and on them. Kerry was caught in one of those, that much is not contested.

434 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:36:42pm

re: #413 Dark_Falcon

It means that many who were there far longer did not see anything to substantiate Kerry's claims. John Kerry defamed his nation to advance his political career and that is all there is to it.

"It means that many who were there far longer did not see anything to substantiate Kerry's claims."


Dark step up your game.

This is a gambler's fallacy argument at its core.

If there were X war crimes committed by the US during Vietnam (and we know X>0 considering My Lai) then it is completely possible that John Kerry saw one of those X events while someone who was there longer didn't.

Also Kerry didn't start running for office till 2 years after he testified...

435 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:37:13pm

re: #425 albusteve

why didn't Kerry prove them otherwise?...he said he would...some serious charges to just blow off, let alone the presidency

Sometimes you just have to take someones word that they did not try to intentionally blow their own head off with a bazooka for a purple heart - and also take as true the logs signed by other people detailing the combat.

436 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:37:21pm

re: #420 researchok

I don't mean anything by that.

All I'm saying is that a lot of the fuel against Kerry came about because he was only in combat for 4 months, testified in front of Congress as if he were an expert, etc. As to the substance of the testimony, I can't say.

In any event, 4 months is not a whole lot of time. He also testified at the My Lai hearings, despite not having been there.

He was not! Where did you get 4 months?

[Link: www.vietnamwar.net...]

437 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:37:22pm

re: #427 researchok

Lots of truth to that, I've heard.

To be clear, ASW is a long way from that theater, so I shall stay...distant.

I'm gonna drop it...the whole thing stinks

438 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:38:01pm

re: #433 Dark_Falcon

Not true. there were ambushes and on them. Kerry was caught in one of those, that much is not contested.

one?....oh my

439 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:38:15pm

Obama, BAD!

/

440 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:39:05pm

re: #364 WindUpBird

John Bolton...mustachehole

lol, classic.

441 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:39:10pm

re: #416 Dark_Falcon

That I can agree to.

Thanks, also I think the US should not unilaterly act to take down anyone's website.

This is really the kind of thing that I'd feel much happier if the UN could act on in a world where the UN could act as a functional representation of the majority of the world's nations. (Not going to argue if this is or is not that world)

I'm just saying you're setting a dangerous precedent Dark.

One day we take down the web sites of those who release information without trying them first the next....

442 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:39:32pm

re: #432 sizzleRI

But many did agree and substantiated Kerry's claims. It is not like he is the only Vietnam vet to make these types of claims.

Most of those people's "testimony" has since been refuted or rejected as unsubstantiated. American troops did occasionally commit atrocities, but those were the rare exception. Our soldiers in the main conducted themselves well and honorably.

443 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:39:34pm

re: #435 wozzablog

Sometimes you just have to take someones word that they did not try to intentionally blow their own head off with a bazooka for a purple heart - and also take as true the logs signed by other people detailing the combat.

logs were 'modified' every day over there....gotta at least break even if you can fudge it out

444 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:39:50pm

re: #441 jamesfirecat

Thanks, also I think the US should not unilaterly act to take down anyone's website.

This is really the kind of thing that I'd feel much happier if the UN could act on in a world where the UN could act as a functional representation of the majority of the world's nations. (Not going to argue if this is or is not that world)

I'm just saying you're setting a dangerous precedent Dark.

One day we take down the web sites of those who release information without trying them first the next...

Websites hosted in allied countries, no less...

445 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:40:02pm

re: #426 marjoriemoon

Kerry served from 1966-1970. After that time he started his anti-war activism. I don't know where you got that.

As to the POW hearings, McCain also was skeptical that there were any POWs left behind, but you don't hear about that.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

And yet, they did work with the Vietnamese government to access their records and declassified over a million pages of documents.

His family investing in Vietnam, I never heard, but it what does that have to do with it? He was a soldier who enlisted himself, not drafted.

I believe he was in theater with River Boats for 4 months. He left that duty because he was entitled to, having received three Purple Hearts.

I was making a statement as to why I believed Kerry received such a hard time.

A lot of eyes went wide when his family did get that huge reals estate/development deal in Vietnam. For a lot of people, that sealed the deal with Kerry as far as they were concerned.

McCain received little flack because of his record- very different than Kerry's.

446 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:40:02pm

re: #429 Gus 802

Regarding John Bolton. He was essentially fired from his position as United States Ambassador to the United Nations

In office: August 1, 2005 – December 9, 2006

Barely over a year in office.

Oh, and before I forget:

Bolton supported the Vietnam War and enlisted in the Maryland Army National Guard, but did not serve in Vietnam.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Did Bolton ever find a war (besides the one on poverty) he didn't support?

447 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:40:10pm

re: #422 Dark_Falcon

We should not be anonymous or secure from the military's Cyber Command.

So much for freedom and liberty huh?

448 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:40:24pm

re: #441 jamesfirecat

Thanks, also I think the US should not unilaterly act to take down anyone's website.

This is really the kind of thing that I'd feel much happier if the UN could act on in a world where the UN could act as a functional representation of the majority of the world's nations. (Not going to argue if this is or is not that world)

I'm just saying you're setting a dangerous precedent Dark.

One day we take down the web sites of those who release information without trying them first the next...

agreed....makes sense

449 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:40:37pm

re: #431 albusteve

hey DF, how about Da Bears?...awesome, and Cutler gets better every week
(while Denver goes into the tank)

The Bears might well have lost this week but they were able to get it together and win.

450 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:41:21pm

re: #447 recusancy

So much for freedom and liberty huh?

Next up: personal tracking devices! The bad news: they have to be taken as a suppository.

451 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:41:34pm

re: #442 Dark_Falcon

Most of those people's "testimony" has since been refuted or rejected as unsubstantiated. American troops did occasionally commit atrocities, but those were the rare exception. Our soldiers in the main conducted themselves well and honorably.

Nobody is arguing otherwise.

Kerry said there were atrocities - you've said there were atrocities.

452 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:42:03pm

re: #379 Mr Pancakes

"thius" you should stay in Portland and get rained on.

Nick Cave sucks too... sorry.

Dad, is that you? How's is it at the home? Are they letting you play your James Taylor?

453 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:42:24pm

re: #441 jamesfirecat

Thanks, also I think the US should not unilaterly act to take down anyone's website.

This is really the kind of thing that I'd feel much happier if the UN could act on in a world where the UN could act as a functional representation of the majority of the world's nations. (Not going to argue if this is or is not that world)

I'm just saying you're setting a dangerous precedent Dark.

One day we take down the web sites of those who release information without trying them first the next...

As to the bolded part: Don't hold your breath.

And to the last bit: I don't think the slope is that slippery. I think you can draw a bright line at acts of violence.

454 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:43:20pm

re: #442 Dark_Falcon

Most of those people's "testimony" has since been refuted or rejected as unsubstantiated. American troops did occasionally commit atrocities, but those were the rare exception. Our soldiers in the main conducted themselves well and honorably.

they fought their asses off in the very worst conditions...they deserve more credit than they will ever get...they liquidated the VC and decimated the NVA, causing them to take at least two years to refit into any kind of force...by then congress handed them the field and it was over

455 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:43:20pm

re: #452 Jeff In Ohio

Dad, is that you? How's is it at the home? Are they letting you play your James Taylor?

James Taylor sucks

456 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:43:35pm

re: #451 wozzablog

Nobody is arguing otherwise.

Kerry said there were atrocities - you've said there were atrocities.

Oh who cares. Even when the US does partake in atrocities (see Guatemala) we just glaze over it and shrug our shoulders.

457 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:43:40pm

re: #453 Dark_Falcon

As to the bolded part: Don't hold your breath.

And to the last bit: I don't think the slope is that slippery. I think you can draw a bright line at acts of violence.

But Assange hasn't committed any acts of violence Dark!

458 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:43:47pm

re: #428 wozzablog

If you were serving, and within 4 months saw stuff committed by your own side that was beyond the pale - would you stand up and say something?.

Of course I would and lots of people did, but Kerry was different. He presented himself an expert and an authority and he testified in matters he had no first hand knowledge..

That kind of expertise just doesn't happen in 4 months.

Now, do I blame Kerry? Hell no. At the time he was being used by anti war factions. He may have shared some of their sentiments, but he was being used first and foremost in my opinion.

459 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:44:26pm

re: #443 albusteve

logs were 'modified' every day over there...gotta at least break even if you can fudge it out

i realise there's no point engaging any further if that's going to be how it's going to be.

Suffice to say - i hope you are feeling better than yesterday, my best regards for your continuing recovery.

460 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:44:41pm

re: #449 Dark_Falcon

The Bears might well have lost this week but they were able to get it together and win.

I'm pulling for them...always do, they are living history and I have a soft spot for the Big Windy

461 Fozzie Bear  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:45:08pm

re: #422 Dark_Falcon

We should not be anonymous or secure from the military's Cyber Command.

I find this position to be frightening. You need to read more history.

462 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:45:13pm

re: #450 JasonA

Next up: personal tracking devices! The bad news: they have to be taken as a suppository.

credit cards are more effective

463 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:45:28pm

re: #445 researchok

McCain received little flack because of his record- very different than Kerry's.

Gee, I wonder why. Maybe the Democrats have more respect for veterans.

He served 4 years. This is part of the Kerry bashing. The 3 years leading up to his swiftboat duties was just shit? Tell a vet that their service meant nothing if they're just "training."

464 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:45:51pm

re: #462 albusteve

credit cards are more effective

They were when we all had credit...

465 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:46:26pm

re: #424 albusteve

those riverine guys had it about as easy as it gets

Really? And this is based on... Let's have a look...

The brown water sailors were highly trained and motivated. Many volunteered for the duty and served one-year tours in Vietnam. Casualties were high. The numbers of wounded were proportionally higher than other types of unit[s] and were the highest within the Navy.

Vietnam Riverine Craft 1962-75

466 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:46:31pm

Okay, here's something to put a stop in all the Kerry/Bush talk.

Happy goddamn Hannukah! Awesome freaking song.

Included is a link for donations to Israel for the wildfires.

467 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:46:41pm

re: #459 wozzablog

i realise there's no point engaging any further if that's going to be how it's going to be.

Suffice to say - i hope you are feeling better than yesterday, my best regards for your continuing recovery.

thanks a bunch...it's a long haul...as for Kerry and those dark times, I see no reason to pursue much of it...it's over

468 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:47:07pm

re: #457 jamesfirecat

But Assange hasn't committed any acts of violence Dark!

I'm not arguing that he has. I meant that covert action to close off leaks can be kept within limits, and thus the slippery slope argument you used can be nullified.

469 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:47:07pm

re: #458 researchok

Of course I would and lots of people did, but Kerry was different. He presented himself an expert and an authority and he testified in matters he had no first hand knowledge..

That kind of expertise just doesn't happen in 4 months.

Now, do I blame Kerry? Hell no. At the time he was being used by anti war factions. He may have shared some of their sentiments, but he was being used first and foremost in my opinion.

The guy was wounded 3 or more times - decorated, saw bad shit going down and spoke his mind about it after he educated himself and speaking to other veterans who had returned home.

He went on to be a dedicated public servant.

Two sides to every coin.

470 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:48:00pm

re: #468 Dark_Falcon

I'm not arguing that he has. I meant that covert action to close off leaks can be kept within limits, and thus the slippery slope argument you used can be nullified.

But the argument you suggest to keep things within limits would place Wikileaks on the side that you can't use covert action to close off!

So your two arguments taken together seem to be self defeating!

471 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:48:03pm

re: #463 marjoriemoon

Gee, I wonder why. Maybe the Democrats have more respect for veterans.

He served 4 years. This is part of the Kerry bashing. The 3 years leading up to his swiftboat duties was just shit? Tell a vet that their service meant nothing if they're just "training."

Why would you say I was bashing Kerry? I wanted to point out the reasons as to why Kerry was a target.

All I said was that he was in River Boat theater for 4 months.

All military service is meritorious.

472 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:48:21pm

re: #464 JasonA

They were when we all had credit...

LOL!....in that case I'm well under the radar

473 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:48:32pm

re: #466 Obdicut

Okay, here's something to put a stop in all the Kerry/Bush talk.

Happy goddamn Hannukah!

Well... that was awfully rude.

474 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:48:34pm

re: #466 Obdicut

Okay, here's something to put a stop in all the Kerry/Bush talk.

Happy goddamn Hannukah! Awesome freaking song.


[Video]Included is a link for donations to Israel for the wildfires.

Good video, but you're statement is inappropriate and rude.

475 Jeff In Ohio  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:48:47pm

re: #455 Mr Pancakes

James Taylor sucks

Like sex with a rubber.

476 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:48:56pm

re: #460 albusteve

I'm pulling for them...always do, they are living history and I have a soft spot for the Big Windy

They have the best team they've had since the 1980's this year. They're going to the playoffs, I feel certain. From there, we'll have to see.

477 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:49:14pm

re: #475 Jeff In Ohio

Like sex with a rubber.

Your what hurts?

478 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:49:21pm

re: #469 wozzablog

The guy was wounded 3 or more times - decorated, saw bad shit going down and spoke his mind about it after he educated himself and speaking to other veterans who had returned home.

He went on to be a dedicated public servant.

Two sides to every coin.

I never bashed the guy.

479 sizzleRI  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:49:44pm

re: #442 Dark_Falcon

Most of those people's "testimony" has since been refuted or rejected as unsubstantiated. American troops did occasionally commit atrocities, but those were the rare exception. Our soldiers in the main conducted themselves well and honorably.

I never said otherwise. I think members of the military mostly serve honorably, often under conditions that could break any person's moral compass. But atrocities did occur, will always occur during war. (And there's still plain old death.) I trust the guys who served when they testify to what happened until proven otherwise, because they were there and I wasn't.

480 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:50:08pm

re: #472 albusteve

LOL!...in that case I'm well under the radar

I'm off the grid too.

*this message was typed on an android phone at coordinates...*

481 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:50:30pm

re: #474 marjoriemoon

Good video, but you're statement is inappropriate and rude.

It's not rude, though it is inappropriate.

Awesome video. I love it to death. They're adorable and awesome.

482 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:51:30pm

re: #481 Obdicut

It's not rude, though it is inappropriate.

Awesome video. I love it to death. They're adorable and awesome.

You don't get it..... it was RUDE asshole.

483 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:51:34pm

re: #470 jamesfirecat

But the argument you suggest to keep things within limits would place Wikileaks on the side that you can't use covert action to close off!

So your two arguments taken together seem to be self defeating!

No, it wouldn't. Covert action does not need to be violent, nor does its justification need to be the use of violence by the leaker. The justification to me is simply that the information being leaked will cause serious damage to our war effort.

484 Killgore Trout  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:52:12pm
485 recusancy  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:52:31pm

re: #483 Dark_Falcon

No, it wouldn't. Covert action does not need to be violent, nor does its justification need to be the use of violence by the leaker. The justification to me is simply that the information being leaked will cause serious damage to our war effort.

Wow. Orwell speaks from the grave.

486 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:53:17pm

re: #483 Dark_Falcon

No, it wouldn't. Covert action does not need to be violent, nor does its justification need to be the use of violence by the leaker. The justification to me is simply that the information being leaked will cause serious damage to our war effort.

Oh sorry, you're arguing that the line to be drawn is that it's wrong to commit violence, not that committing violence makes it okay to take down someone's website right?

That said Dark ask yourself, are you okay with taking down any website which holds information that may "cause serious damage to our war effort"?

487 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:53:30pm

re: #482 Mr Pancakes

Whatever.

Here's the naked link to donate to victims of the forest fires in Israel, for any Lizards who, during this holiday season, have some extra dosh lying around for those less fortunate:

[Link: secure2.convio.net...]

488 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:53:55pm

re: #487 Obdicut

Whatever.

Here's the naked link to donate to victims of the forest fires in Israel, for any Lizards who, during this holiday season, have some extra dosh lying around for those less fortunate:

[Link: secure2.convio.net...]

Up yours

489 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:53:58pm

re: #487 Obdicut

Whatever.

Here's the naked link to donate to victims of the forest fires in Israel, for any Lizards who, during this holiday season, have some extra dosh lying around for those less fortunate:

[Link: secure2.convio.net...]

Dead link for me.

490 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:54:20pm

re: #471 researchok

Why would you say I was bashing Kerry? I wanted to point out the reasons as to why Kerry was a target.

All I said was that he was in River Boat theater for 4 months.

All military service is meritorious.

I've been here a long time. I listened to the biggest Kerry hater this side of the blogosphere. They have lots of reasons not to like him, none of which make any sense to me.

If anyone took the time to actually read about Kerry, they would have known better. That's not bad PR. That's plain old lying BS.

491 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:55:21pm

re: #481 Obdicut

It's not rude, though it is inappropriate.

Awesome video. I love it to death. They're adorable and awesome.

I'll let go of the asshole part, but yea, it was rude.

492 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:55:42pm

re: #489 JasonA

Damn it. This should work:

[Link: www.jnf.org...]

493 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:55:48pm

re: #490 marjoriemoon

I've been here a long time. I listened to the biggest Kerry hater this side of the blogosphere. They have lots of reasons not to like him, none of which make any sense to me.

If anyone took the time to actually read about Kerry, they would have known better. That's not bad PR. That's plain old lying BS.

All true.

But I never bashed the guy. I voiced an opinion as to why he was bashed mercilessly.

494 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:56:13pm

re: #478 researchok

I never bashed the guy.

Not saying you've been engaged in KDS.

Your appraisal of his testimony differs from how i construe it. Simple as, on that - no more no less.

495 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:56:20pm

re: #479 sizzleRI

I never said otherwise. I think members of the military mostly serve honorably, often under conditions that could break any person's moral compass. But atrocities did occur, will always occur during war. (And there's still plain old death.) I trust the guys who served when they testify to what happened until proven otherwise, because they were there and I wasn't.

The problem is that so many of the stories were proven wrong. There was systematic lying going on to undermine the war. Of all the cases John Kerry claimed to bring to light, only two could be substantiated well enough to be considered to have happened, and in only one case could fault be determined enough for charges to be contemplated. And that reality did not measure up to Kerry's rhetoric at all. The United States Army did not "ravage the land in the manner of Genghis Khan" and Kerry should have known better than to say that it had.

496 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:56:42pm

re: #491 marjoriemoon

Alrighty then. Just enjoy the awesome song celebrating the holiday and, if you can, send money along to the charity. It's a very worthy cause.

497 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:56:56pm

So, one of the neighbors is moving away, asked if I wanted about $800 bucks worth of 40K stuff he had sitting around.

Sweet.

498 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:57:30pm

re: #497 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, one of the neighbors is moving away, asked if I wanted about $800 bucks worth of 40K stuff he had sitting around.

Sweet.

$800 you say?

That's what, about 12 models?

499 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:57:32pm

re: #494 wozzablog

Not saying you've been engaged in KDS.

Your appraisal of his testimony differs from how i construe it. Simple as, on that - no more no less.

I do believe he was sincere. I also believe he was used, first and foremost.

And he paid the price years later, IMO.

500 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:57:41pm

re: #496 Obdicut

Alrighty then. Just enjoy the awesome song celebrating the holiday and, if you can, send money along to the charity. It's a very worthy cause.

No apologies here.... nope.

501 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:57:44pm

re: #497 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Painted or unpainted?

502 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:57:59pm

re: #493 researchok

All true.

But I never bashed the guy. I voiced an opinion as to why he was bashed mercilessly.

Ok, well if I misunderstood you, I'm sorry. It looked to be you agreed, or somehow understood the reasons for the bashing.

503 tradewind  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:58:27pm

re: #441 jamesfirecat

This is really the kind of thing that I'd feel much happier if the UN could act on in a world where the UN could act as a functional representation of the majority of the world's nations.


Sorry to step on your happy place, but I'm so thankful that no responsible party's going to let that happen.

504 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:58:44pm

re: #486 jamesfirecat

Oh sorry, you're arguing that the line to be drawn is that it's wrong to commit violence, not that committing violence makes it okay to take down someone's website right?

That said Dark ask yourself, are you okay with taking down any website which holds information that may "cause serious damage to our war effort"?

I will clarify that to read "classified or secret information". That has to be distinguished from a reporter simply reporting what they saw in the field.

505 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:59:18pm

Heh.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT
Let's say that the Wikileaks cables hadn't been State Department cables but rather the final tracks of Lady Gaga's next album or perhaps each episode of next season's Mad Men? How long do you think they would have stayed online?

--Josh Marshall

506 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:59:21pm

re: #504 Dark_Falcon

I will clarify that to read "classified or secret information". That has to be distinguished from a reporter simply reporting what they saw in the field.

If that information is going to be reported/commented on on a major news Network.... where do you stand?

507 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:59:28pm

re: #498 jamesfirecat

$800 you say?

That's what, about 12 models?

SHUSH!

2000+pts of Orks, 1500pts Kroot carnivore Merc Army, plus some other stuff

508 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:59:52pm

re: #495 Dark_Falcon

The problem is that so many of the stories were proven wrong. There was systematic lying going on to undermine the war. Of all the cases John Kerry claimed to bring to light, only two could be substantiated well enough to be considered to have happened, and in only one case could fault be determined enough for charges to be contemplated. And that reality did not measure up to Kerry's rhetoric at all. The United States Army did not "ravage the land in the manner of Genghis Khan" and Kerry should have known better than to say that it had.

Big deal. Yep, sorry to say it but big deal. John Kerry was 28 years old when he said that. He may have been out of line but at least he earned the right to say it. But if we're going to judge him for what he said in his 20s then we should judge everyone for what they said or did in their 20s.

509 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:59:54pm

re: #498 jamesfirecat

$800 you say?

That's what, about 12 models?

No, more like 20. :)

510 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 5:59:57pm

re: #501 Obdicut

Painted or unpainted?

Painted, plus some full conversion stuff, and bits.

511 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:00:14pm

re: #502 marjoriemoon

Ok, well if I misunderstood you, I'm sorry. It looked to be you agreed, or somehow understood the reasons for the bashing.

Thank you.

512 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:00:17pm

re: #510 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dibs on the bits!

513 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:00:42pm

re: #510 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Painted, plus some full conversion stuff, and bits.

I gotz dah best bitz fah dis fight!

514 Jimmah  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:01:38pm

re: #243 goddamnedfrank

PJ first published in '87, No Doubt's first album came in '92. Just sayin'.

Bevis and Butthead listening to PJ Harvey Size of Me:


[Video]

So, they don't sound remotely alike, and PJ Harvey's musical style was already well defined years before Stefani even got started. I'm no lawyer, but I'd say the charges of imitation against Ms Harvey are looking pretty weak right now.

515 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:01:45pm

Dibs on the bits!

They're nifty and adorable!

516 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:02:20pm

If they put a mic in front of me when I was 28 years old you would hear a different person than what you hear today.

517 tradewind  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:02:35pm

re: #504 Dark_Falcon
If the following report is accurate, someone above him should have seen this one coming:
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

518 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:02:46pm

re: #512 Obdicut

Dibs on the bits!

Bits are the fun part.

"Whats that gun?"
"Its a bolt pistol with a sight mount from a IG special weapons team, the barrel of a flamer cut down and the drum feed from a chaos storm bolter.

519 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:02:47pm

re: #515 Mr Pancakes

Can you please, please get over this weird obsession with me? It's seriously creepy.

520 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:03:26pm

re: #518 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I think the chaos kits should be all bits. It's chaos. You should just have to weld random crap together to make everything.

521 Kragar  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:05:12pm

re: #520 Obdicut

I think the chaos kits should be all bits. It's chaos. You should just have to weld random crap together to make everything.

Thats what the mutation and spiky bits pack are for.

522 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:06:08pm

Sheesh. David Horowitz was a Communist during the Vietnam War.

523 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:06:52pm

re: #519 Obdicut

Can you please, please get over this weird obsession with me? It's seriously creepy.

Creepy like a zombie? Or creepy like something other than a zombie?

524 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:07:54pm

re: #465 Gus 802

Really? And this is based on... Let's have a look...

The brown water sailors were highly trained and motivated. Many volunteered for the duty and served one-year tours in Vietnam. Casualties were high. The numbers of wounded were proportionally higher than other types of unit[s] and were the highest within the Navy.

Vietnam Riverine Craft 1962-75

everybody has their story...life was much easier for those guys than for ground troops

525 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:08:22pm

re: #413 Dark_Falcon

It means that many who were there far longer did not see anything to substantiate Kerry's claims. John Kerry defamed his nation to advance his political career and that is all there is to it.

I like how you back off the Kerry smears for a while, then pop up with them again at a later date

526 Jimmah  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:09:01pm

UK rapper demands that Bethesda get a move on with Elder Scrolls V:

527 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:09:13pm

re: #524 albusteve

It was also much fucking harder than someone sitting back in the States. Or in Germany.

528 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:09:25pm

re: #312 recusancy

I like Kerry. He ran an awful/scared/defensive campaign. But he's come into his own since.

It's interesting how realizing they aren't going to get that top prize does that to some people. Teddy Kennedy (another favorite of many lizards, I know) was a much better senator for Mass and the US after 1980 than he ever was before it.

It's also why I don't think Hillary will try again but will instead probably stay at Foggy Bottom (where she has been doing a very good job) as long as she can.

529 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:09:36pm

re: #476 Dark_Falcon

They have the best team they've had since the 1980's this year. They're going to the playoffs, I feel certain. From there, we'll have to see.

they need to spank Green Bay, then they are in

530 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:10:35pm

re: #527 Obdicut

It was also much fucking harder than someone sitting back in the States. Or in Germany.

right...have I dissed those guys?...no, don't look for trouble where there is none

531 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:10:59pm

re: #524 albusteve

everybody has their story...life was much easier for those guys than for ground troops

Sure but you said they had it "easy as it gets" and that's simply not true. The one on the boats at Yankee Station had it easier but the one stationed in Thailand had it made unless they were part of a combat flight crew. By no means did the Riverines have it "easy".

532 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:11:00pm

re: #527 Obdicut

It was also much fucking harder than someone sitting back in the States. Or in Germany.

Or Preaching Mormonism in France.

(Mitt Romney)

533 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:11:24pm

re: #393 rwdflynavy

Nope. I agree it was a shitty thing to do.

And aren't you pissed off at whoever it was that led you to believe this mendacity, these pernicious lies about a veteran's service, and repeat them, years later, while ostensibly working for the Navy, from the Pentagon?

Mea Culpa.

I get that, but aren't you also angry about being misled, or are you going to continue rewarding the people who misled you?

534 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:11:37pm

Ones not one. Yeesh.

535 Jimmah  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:13:27pm

re: #374 WindUpBird

thius is the dumbest post of the thread

"Nick Cave, a sad imitation of Third Eye Blind"

Heh. Billie Holiday, sad imitation of Amy Winehouse.

536 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:13:39pm

re: #532 jamesfirecat

Or Preaching Mormonism in France.

(Mitt Romney)

Don't knock Mormon Missionary work, please. It is decent and honorable work.

537 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:14:41pm

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

Don't knock Mormon Missionary work, please. It is decent and honorable work.

He's not mocking the work - he's mocking the chickenhawk.

538 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:15:00pm

re: #529 albusteve

they need to spank Green Bay, then they are in

Better to have things wrapped up before Jan. 2nd. Green Bay will be very tough to beat in that game. The Bears can win it, but they won't 'spank' the Packers.

539 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:15:19pm

re: #531 Gus 802

Sure but you said they had it "easy as it gets" and that's simply not true. The one on the boats at Yankee Station had it easier but the one stationed in Thailand had it made unless they were part of a combat flight crew. By no means did the Riverines have it "easy".

excuse me for not providing more context....poor verbage I guess...they say their share of violence, but it's all relative

540 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:16:14pm

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

Don't knock Mormon Missionary work, please. It is decent and honorable work.


I wasn't trying to knock the work itself... only the way Romney used it.


Same way I don't intend to knock the National Guard which does important work when I talk about Bush's history with it...

541 Mark Winter  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:16:41pm

re: #505 JasonA

All that stuff is online

542 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:16:48pm

re: #525 WindUpBird

I like how you back off the Kerry smears for a while, then pop up with them again at a later date

What I said was not a smear and it has been my consistent position since 2004. Someone brought up the issue and I waded in.

543 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:17:05pm

re: #538 Dark_Falcon

Better to have things wrapped up before Jan. 2nd. Green Bay will be very tough to beat in that game. The Bears can win it, but they won't 'spank' the Packers.

they both keep winning and it will be a classic game....I love NFL football...Bears/Packers is as good as it gets when they are both rolling

544 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:18:28pm

re: #542 Dark_Falcon

What I said was not a smear and it has been my consistent position since 2004. Someone brought up the issue and I waded in.

I'll give you that Dark, you are nothing if not consistent though I feel you may give John Kerry more hate than he deserves and have even stronger feelings that you do so to Nancy Pelosi...

(Or maybe I'm mixing you up with someone else on the Pelosi thing)

545 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:19:18pm

re: #535 Jimmah

Heh. Billie Holiday, sad imitation of Amy Winehouse.

Amy Winehouse sucks. Although in her drunken, drugged out stupor..... she has a better future than you.

546 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:20:38pm

re: #545 Mr Pancakes

Amy Winehouse sucks. Although in her drunken, drugged out stupor... she has a better future than you.

Winehouse is the pits....comparing her talents to Billie Holiday is ludicrous

547 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:20:45pm

re: #545 Mr Pancakes

Politely - Pancakes, quit it or scroll on by.

548 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:21:13pm

re: #546 albusteve

Winehouse is the pits...comparing her talents to Billie Holiday is ludicrous

Agreed

549 Gus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:22:03pm

re: #539 albusteve

excuse me for not providing more context...poor verbage I guess...they say their share of violence, but it's all relative

I'll live. Just don't call me fat.

//

550 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:22:16pm

re: #543 albusteve

they both keep winning and it will be a classic game...I love NFL football...Bears/Packers is as good as it gets when they are both rolling

Cowboys beat the Colts in OT..Very painful game for me..
Congrads Steve

551 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:22:56pm

re: #546 albusteve

Winehouse is the pits...comparing her talents to Billie Holiday is ludicrous

And this is why LGF needs sarc tags.

552 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:23:06pm

re: #549 Gus 802

I'll live. Just don't call me fat.

//

Look at the bright side.

He could have called you a vegetarian.

553 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:23:19pm

re: #543 albusteve

they both keep winning and it will be a classic game...I love NFL football...Bears/Packers is as good as it gets when they are both rolling

That's the odd thing: Though the Bears and Packers have been rivals for a very long time, it has been rare to find both franchises fielding a quality team at the same time. Most of the time one team or the other has been crap. This year it's different and that game may well be epic.

I say "may well" because if the Bears were to have locked in their place in the playoffs prior to the game Lovie Smith would pull most of their starters to reduce the risk of injuries. He's a cautious soul who is not concerned with the drama of the game.

554 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:24:11pm

re: #549 Gus 802

I'll live. Just don't call me fat.

//

555 Jimmah  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:24:15pm

re: #545 Mr Pancakes

Amy Winehouse sucks. Although in her drunken, drugged out stupor... she has a better future than you.

Dearie me.

Tell me about your pain:

556 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:24:25pm

re: #545 Mr Pancakes

What the heck is wrong with you tonight?! Jimmah didn't deserve that shot.

557 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:24:53pm

re: #555 Jimmah

Dearie me.

Tell me about your pain:


[Video]

Sorry no clicky.... my statement was true.

558 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:24:58pm

re: #549 Gus 802

I'll live. Just don't call me fat.

//

never, but that skirt does make your butt look...

559 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:25:03pm

re: #555 Jimmah

Dearie me.

Tell me about your pain:


[Video]

Ahem, I believe you mean [Link: jamesfirecat.deviantart.com...]

Why use old retired youtube posts when you could try out the new LGF edition troll cats?

560 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:25:33pm

re: #559 jamesfirecat

Ahem, I believe you mean [Link: jamesfirecat.deviantart.com...]

Why use old retired youtube posts when you could try out the new LGF edition troll cats?

You know he made those, right?

561 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:26:01pm

re: #550 HoosierHoops

Cowboys beat the Colts in OT..Very painful game for me..
Congrads Steve

fun game eh?...CBoys finally win a close one...Manning is still a genius, maybe the best ever?

562 researchok  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:26:16pm

re: #559 jamesfirecat

Ahem, I believe you mean [Link: jamesfirecat.deviantart.com...]

Why use old retired youtube posts when you could try out the new LGF edition troll cats?

You are very, very strange.

I like that.

563 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:26:45pm

re: #561 albusteve

fun game eh?...CBoys finally win a close one...Manning is still a genius, maybe the best ever?

Congrats Steve......

564 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:27:06pm

re: #551 JasonA

And this is why LGF needs sarc tags.

I don't use them...should there be a rule not to criticize Whinehouse?

565 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:27:11pm

re: #560 JasonA

You know he made those, right?

Oh sorry my bad, who am I to get between a man and his own handiwork!

566 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:27:47pm

re: #528 wlewisiii

It's interesting how realizing they aren't going to get that top prize does that to some people. Teddy Kennedy (another favorite of many lizards, I know) was a much better senator for Mass and the US after 1980 than he ever was before it.

It's also why I don't think Hillary will try again but will instead probably stay at Foggy Bottom (where she has been doing a very good job) as long as she can.

Hillary will stay Madam Secretary for as long as Obama is in and wants her, but I think after that she'd run again. And I'd vote for her again.

My Boston cousins got angry at Kerry prior to the election in 2004. He missed some votes, I think because of campaigning. I thought it was a pretty harsh assessment, considering that's what usually happens with senators when they run for office. Not that it's a good thing, but it is what it is.

Actually, another good reason that there should be campaign time limits. You cannot campaign no more than 6 months prior to an election, or less even.

567 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:28:28pm

re: #553 Dark_Falcon

That's the odd thing: Though the Bears and Packers have been rivals for a very long time, it has been rare to find both franchises fielding a quality team at the same time. Most of the time one team or the other has been crap. This year it's different and that game may well be epic.

I say "may well" because if the Bears were to have locked in their place in the playoffs prior to the game Lovie Smith would pull most of their starters to reduce the risk of injuries. He's a cautious soul who is not concerned with the drama of the game.

32 teams and the quest for parity is a terrific burden on the old rivalries

568 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:28:34pm

re: #564 albusteve

I don't use them...should there be a rule not to criticize Whinehouse?

Heck, no. Given the way she ran her life into the ground, criticism is warranted.

569 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:28:39pm

re: #553 Dark_Falcon

That's the odd thing: Though the Bears and Packers have been rivals for a very long time, it has been rare to find both franchises fielding a quality team at the same time. Most of the time one team or the other has been crap. This year it's different and that game may well be epic.

I say "may well" because if the Bears were to have locked in their place in the playoffs prior to the game Lovie Smith would pull most of their starters to reduce the risk of injuries. He's a cautious soul who is not concerned with the drama of the game.

Yep, they need to go into it tied. Win or go home ... :) Now that could be a game to rival the Ice Bowl.

570 Wozza Matter?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:28:50pm

g'night peeps.

try to remain civil..........

571 Jimmah  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:28:56pm

re: #559 jamesfirecat

Ahem, I believe you mean [Link: jamesfirecat.deviantart.com...]

Why use old retired youtube posts when you could try out the new LGF edition troll cats?

I like it :) But the work of the Butthurt Level Alert System will never be done while there is still butthurt in this world.

572 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:29:03pm

re: #564 albusteve

I don't use them...should there be a rule not to criticize Whinehouse?

Oh no, go for it. I'm just pointing out that Jimmah wasn't seriously comparing them.

573 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:30:29pm

re: #566 marjoriemoon

Hillary will stay Madam Secretary for as long as Obama is in and wants her, but I think after that she'd run again. And I'd vote for her again.

My Boston cousins got angry at Kerry prior to the election in 2004. He missed some votes, I think because of campaigning. I thought it was a pretty harsh assessment, considering that's what usually happens with senators when they run for office. Not that it's a good thing, but it is what it is.

Actually, another good reason that there should be campaign time limits. You cannot campaign no more than 6 months prior to an election, or less even.

she stated this week she was done with public service, for what that's worth

574 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:31:26pm

re: #557 Mr Pancakes

Sorry no clicky... my statement was true.

Have you listened to Amy prior to her fall into addiction? An unbelievable raw talent that will make the hair on your arms stand up.

575 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:31:33pm

re: #568 Dark_Falcon

Heck, no. Given the way she ran her life into the ground, criticism is warranted.

of course...a self destructive brat as far as I can tell

576 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:32:00pm

re: #567 albusteve

32 teams and the quest for parity is a terrific burden on the old rivalries

Parity....... great graphic here.

[Link: www.midwestsportsfans.com...]

577 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:32:13pm

re: #572 JasonA

Oh no, go for it. I'm just pointing out that Jimmah wasn't seriously comparing them.

I didn't catch that...pardone

578 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:34:06pm

re: #567 albusteve

32 teams and the quest for parity is a terrific burden on the old rivalries

I really want to see Lovie have his share of success....he's one of the good guys

579 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:37:34pm

re: #576 Mr Pancakes

Parity... great graphic here.

[Link: www.midwestsportsfans.com...]

I give up...I don't get it

580 Jimmah  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:37:59pm

re: #575 albusteve

of course...a self destructive brat as far as I can tell

She is also the only modern singer that Keith Richards rates:

[Link: www.thisislondon.co.uk...]

581 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:38:03pm

re: #569 wlewisiii

Yep, they need to go into it tied. Win or go home ... :) Now that could be a game to rival the Ice Bowl.

A tie isn't really need. What I'd like is for the Bears to be fighting for a first-round bye and the Packers to be playing for a wildcard spot. That would mean a fierce game while still allowing the Bears the 2 wins I think they can get prior to 1/2/11. I say two wins because they won't beat both New England and the Jets. One of them they can do, but not both.

582 Jimmah  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:38:22pm

re: #577 albusteve

I didn't catch that...pardone

No probs.

583 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:38:53pm

re: #574 marjoriemoon

Have you listened to Amy prior to her fall into addiction? An unbelievable raw talent that will make the hair on your arms stand up.

sadly, a scenario that gets played over and over...reminds me of the 27 Club

584 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:39:08pm

re: #573 albusteve

she stated this week she was done with public service, for what that's worth

I didn't hear. I can see that also. It's a younger person's job.

585 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:39:43pm

re: #580 Jimmah

She is also the only modern singer that Keith Richards rates:

[Link: www.thisislondon.co.uk...]

Wow. If Keith Richards is telling you to get off the drugs, you are seriously messed up. Granted, he's kept his talent, but he is the exception (and what a glorious exception he is).

586 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:41:12pm

re: #579 albusteve

I give up...I don't get it

Every team has beaten a team that has beat another team that beat them...... you gotta stare at it awhile.

587 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:41:39pm

re: #580 Jimmah

She is also the only modern singer that Keith Richards rates:

[Link: www.thisislondon.co.uk...]

that's some serious cred...I'd like nothing more than for her to turn it around, but it's up to her...it's so easy to check in, but so hard to check out

588 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:43:10pm

re: #580 Jimmah

She is also the only modern singer that Keith Richards rates:

[Link: www.thisislondon.co.uk...]

That was in 2008? I can see that and Keith is right on, but I think she's actually on an upswing now. I hope she can hold on to it.

She's not a Britney or a Paris. I was absolutely blown away by her voice, mostly because I thought she was a Britney or a Paris.

589 albusteve  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:43:56pm

re: #586 Mr Pancakes

Every team has beaten a team that has beat another team that beat them... you gotta stare at it awhile.

I booked it...my denseness just popped up

590 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:45:11pm

re: #589 albusteve

I booked it...my denseness just popped up

No prob man..... I just found it mildly entertaining when you mentioned parity..... so true.

591 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:48:12pm

re: #585 Dark_Falcon

Wow. If Keith Richards is telling you to get off the drugs, you are seriously messed up. Granted, he's kept his talent, but he is the exception (and what a glorious exception he is).

Jon Belushi was good for what little time we had him, haven't seen a movie performance of his that I don't like.

He manages to act so calm in the most outrageous of situations...

592 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:49:04pm

re: #579 albusteve

I give up...I don't get it

For once we agree, Steve. I really don't get it either.

593 Four More Tears  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:50:28pm

re: #591 jamesfirecat

Jon Belushi was good for what little time we had him, haven't seen a movie performance of his that I don't like.

He manages to act so calm in the most outrageous of situations...

Four fried chickens and a coke.

594 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:51:13pm

re: #586 Mr Pancakes

Every team has beaten a team that has beat another team that beat them... you gotta stare at it awhile.

Ah. How do you tell that from the graphic though? The color of the score?

595 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:51:32pm

re: #591 jamesfirecat

Jon Belushi was good for what little time we had him, haven't seen a movie performance of his that I don't like.

He manages to act so calm in the most outrageous of situations...

True. His death was a very sad thing. Addiction is a horror.

596 jamesfirecat  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:52:14pm

re: #593 JasonA

Four fried chickens and a coke.

This place has got everything.

597 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:54:47pm

re: #594 wlewisiii

Ah. How do you tell that from the graphic though? The color of the score?

No the color of the score only indicates the team colors..... if you go clockwise..... team "A" beat team "B" team "B" beat team "C" and so on.... it probably doesn't happen every year.

598 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 6:59:16pm

re: #588 marjoriemoon

That was in 2008? I can see that and Keith is right on, but I think she's actually on an upswing now. I hope she can hold on to it.

She's not a Britney or a Paris. I was absolutely blown away by her voice, mostly because I thought she was a Britney or a Paris.

She is looking better, that's a fact.

599 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 7:01:26pm

So it's ok to call her Caribou Barbie now?

600 What, me worry?  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 7:01:55pm

Oops wrong thread lol

601 SpaceJesus  Sun, Dec 5, 2010 8:27:48pm

amy winehouse rules, mr. pancakes

602 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 6, 2010 12:42:36am

re: #546 albusteve

Winehouse is the pits...comparing her talents to Billie Holiday is ludicrous

Sarcasm: MISSED

603 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 6, 2010 12:43:39am

re: #545 Mr Pancakes

Amy Winehouse sucks. Although in her drunken, drugged out stupor... she has a better future than you.

You really are heading down the Cato path

604 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Dec 6, 2010 12:45:57am

re: #488 Mr Pancakes

Up yours

yep, definitely the Cato path

605 Jimmah  Mon, Dec 6, 2010 4:37:23am

re: #603 WindUpBird

You really are heading down the Cato path

Yep - some differences though, chief among them being that poor old Mr Pancakes is an inconsequential git who won't be missed by anyone. And he knows it.

606 iceweasel  Mon, Dec 6, 2010 9:39:26am

re: #545 Mr Pancakes

Amy Winehouse sucks. Although in her drunken, drugged out stupor... she has a better future than you.

This is definitely making you look good. Keep it up!


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