No, the NDAA Does Not Authorize Indefinite Detention of US Citizens

The left has fake outrages too
Politics • Views: 34,839

Fake outrages are not just a right wing phenomenon. Adam Serwer deftly debunks a fake outrage of the leftist kind: The Defense Bill Passed. So What Does It Do? | Mother Jones:

Following the Obama administration’s withdrawal of its veto threat Wednesday, the National Defense Authorization Act passed both houses of Congress easily and is now headed to the president’s desk.�

So what exactly does the bill do? It says that the president has to hold a foreign Al Qaeda suspect captured on US soil in military detention—except it leaves enough procedural loopholes that someone like convicted underwear bomber and Nigerian citizen Umar Abdulmutallab could actually go from capture to trial without ever being held by the military. It does not, contrary to what many media outlets have reported, authorize the president to indefinitely detain without trial an American citizen suspected of terrorism who is captured in the US. A last minute compromise amendment�adopted in the Senate, whose language was retained in the final bill, leaves it up to the courts to decide if the president has that power, should a future president try to exercise it. But if a future president does try to assert the authority to detain an American citizen without charge or trial, it won’t be based on the authority in this bill.�

So it’s simply not true, as the Guardian wrote yesterday, that the the bill “allows the military to indefinitely detain without trial American terrorism suspects arrested on US soil who could then be shipped to Guant�namo Bay.” When the New York Times editorial page writes that the bill would “strip the F.B.I., federal prosecutors and federal courts of all or most of their power to arrest and prosecute terrorists and hand it off to the military,” or that the “legislation could also give future presidents the authority to throw American citizens into prison for life without charges or a trial,” they’re simply wrong.

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525 comments
1 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:37:43pm

It seems a reasonable fact checking. I clicked the URL and it goes to Mother Jones. LOL! Were there some editorial changes over there? They also debunked the lefty "Israel trained US to crack down on OWS" conspiracy theory. It's nice to see some honest reporting from them.

2 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:38:33pm

Thank you very much. Just a few minutes ago I posted about the lack of clarity as far as my reading could find. I have some faith in the ACLU, but with a little reservation. So I went with their take. Glad to hear it's not such a threat.

3 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:40:21pm

re: #2 Rightwingconspirator

Thank you very much. Just a few minutes ago I posted about the lack of clarity as far as my reading could find. I have some faith in the ACLU, but with a little reservation. So I went with their take. Glad to hear it's not such a threat.

If you check the end of the article....

UPDATE: In case it's not clear, I still think the president should veto the bill. What it does is bad enough. It just doesn't do what a lot of people are saying it does.

I think that's a very reasonable and honest opinion. I'm not convinced but it's a very well done opposition to the bill.

4 JAFO  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:41:31pm

So they can hold a US citizen in indefinite detention unless that person takes it to court, which he has no access to, to challenge the law.

edited for clarity

5 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:41:49pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

This stuff comes up regularly. At the end of the day I have to admit it's often hard to truly discern from where I sit.

6 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:42:30pm

No way, we lefties are never wrong!!1

I demand a recount!

7 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:45:32pm

Surveying the web:

We are all doomed. Obama is going to kidnap us, throw us in jail, hold us indefinitely, and then murder us. The bill of rights has been negated. Alex Jones thinks that Obama will use this to destroy the internets.

Oh, and our little dogs, too.

8 HAL2010  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:46:48pm

And on that note, goodnight. It has been ... interesting.

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:47:01pm

Alex Jones' survival seeds ad shows a little boy, dressed up as an elf, holding the seeds.

Ho. Ho. Ho. Merry Christmas kid. I'm sure you wanted these seeds as badly as legos.

10 researchok  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:49:59pm

re: #7 EmmmieG

They found the keys to the Bush concentration camps.

11 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:51:14pm

re: #10 researchok

They found the keys to the Bush concentration camps.

The elf kid had 'em.

12 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:54:58pm

I have to say, though - the left's fake outrages tend to be based on exaggerations of real issues, while the right's fake outrages are usually completely delusional.

13 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:57:43pm

Maybe the streams of left and right outrage will cross, when Obama indefinitely detains Orly Taitz.

14 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 6:58:04pm

Sexist Republican is Sexist

From the department of inappropriate attacks, a challenger to Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-WA) accused her of supporting access to Plan B for minors because she is not married.

In an email to supporters Thursday, State Sen. Michael Baumgartner (R), slammed Cantwell for her support of making Plan B available to minors — a policy recently supported by the FDA but overturned by the Obama administration. According to the Seattle Times, the email noted that Cantwell is unmarried and votes frequently - as the email put it - to “undermine the role of parents in child rearing.”

stay classy, republicans

15 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:01:02pm

Kudos to Adam Serwer for staying focused on reality. The pressure to follow the prevailing memes can be intense.

16 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:06:12pm

re: #12 Charles

I have to say, though - the left's fake outrages tend to be based on exaggerations of real issues, while the right's fake outrages are usually completely delusional.

i did take care to copy this article back to my firebagger friends who are convinced that obama is worse than six george w bushs

mother jones ought to cut some ice

17 justaminute  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:10:00pm

Why do we need this bill in the first place?

18 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:12:51pm

re: #17 justaminute

Why do we need this bill in the first place?

There is a massive world shortage of bills.

19 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:13:52pm

re: #17 justaminute

From one of the links at Mother Jones:

Robert Chesney: "So what is really accomplished by 1022? Well, it does require articulation of the screening/slotting processes, and sharing of them with Congress such that there might be a basis for auditing/investigation how well the procedures worked (or were complied with) in particular cases. And there is the sheer symbolic impact of passing language widely perceived as requiring military detention in such cases; taking the civilian prosecution right may become politically more costly going forward, even though it is perfectly permissible under the terms of the actual statute. That’s a mixed bag, really. More careful thinking and articulation of procedures can certainly be viewed positively, whereas there’s not much good to be said for creating additional reasons to allow political consequences to influence disposition decisions."

The Conference Version of the NDAA: Mandatory Military Detention Is Not Very Mandatory

20 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:14:07pm

My goodness, isn't Alex Jones' site amusing. I like this comment:

December 16, 2011 at 9:04 pm

and obviously you do not know their is probably aluminum or ammonia in your shampoo………… and further more there are more sites that tell the same truths about what is in products…………… beat yourself out of your own brainwashed mind.

I am now going to try to find out why aluminum in the shampoo is a problem. (As opposed to the aluminum wrapped around your next coke.) Will report back.

21 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:17:00pm

re: #17 justaminute

Why do we need this bill in the first place?

it requires mommy to certify in writing that the entire underside of the bed has beecn checked for bogeymen

22 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:18:35pm

Fact 1: ammonium is what is in your shampoo, not ammonia. Not the same thing.

23 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:19:17pm

re: #21 engineer dog

it requires mommy to certify in writing that the entire underside of the bed has beecn checked for bogeymen

Concise and precise. I like it.

24 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:21:24pm

Fake outrages are not just a right wing phenomenon. Adam Serwer deftly debunks a fake outrage of the leftist kind: The Defense Bill Passed. So What Does It Do? | Mother Jones:

Lordy, yes. Thank you for this post, Charles!

25 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:22:50pm

re: #20 EmmmieG

My goodness, isn't Alex Jones' site amusing. I like this comment:

December 16, 2011 at 9:04 pm

and obviously you do not know their is probably aluminum or ammonia in your shampoo………… and further more there are more sites that tell the same truths about what is in products…………… beat yourself out of your own brainwashed mind.

I am now going to try to find out why aluminum in the shampoo is a problem. (As opposed to the aluminum wrapped around your next coke.) Will report back.

Aluminum is the world's most common metal.

And you can make thermite with it.

26 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:23:45pm

re: #25 b_sharp

Aluminum is the world's most common metal.

And you can make thermite with it.

I'm still researching this one. I'm trying to find a website that can explain why I should worry about aluminum in my shampoo that ISN'T trying to sell me something.

27 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:24:14pm

Thank you Charles. I have a couple of moonbats that I talk guns with who need a reality check on this issue.

One thing I find is that a moonbat is far more likely to back down from an outragous outrage when shown evidence than a wingnut is. Hopefully that will be the case there.

28 BishopX  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:26:34pm

The other thing to keep in mind is that memes have inertia. Much of the outrage was over draft versions of this bill. The legislative process worked in that the really extreme stuff got removed. The only problem is the outrage caused by those provisions sticks around longer than the actual language in the bill.

So while some of the outrage is just plain wrong, most of it is just outdated.

29 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:26:58pm

re: #26 EmmmieG

It might be here, under aluminum acetate:
[Link: www.google.com...]

30 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:27:10pm

re: #26 EmmmieG

I'm still researching this one. I'm trying to find a website that can explain why I should worry about aluminum in my shampoo that ISN'T trying to sell me something.

Allegedly, and this nuttiness goes back to at least the mid-70's, too much aluminum in our diet, shampoo, tin-foil hats, causes Alzheimer's. We had a consumer product saftey question one of my years in high school debate & I remember one of my class mates, a budding moonbat if there ever was, arguing that we should ban the use of aluminium.

31 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:27:22pm

re: #13 jaunte

Maybe the streams of left and right outrage will cross, when Obama indefinitely detains Orly Taitz.

Say 'Orly Taitz' out loud 3 times.

Then wait for the Hell Mouth to open up.

32 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:27:34pm

Just found one shampoo that contains aluminum acetate, but it's also a prescription medication for specific conditions. It also specifies it is not for ophthalmic use.

In other words, it's not supposed to go in your eyes.

Thanks for that tip.

How am I doing at unbrainwashing myself?

33 justaminute  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:29:37pm

Well, why doesn't someone from the WH come out and state it. You know the saying that a lie can travel around the world and back while the truth is just getting it's shoes on. This and the oil sands project that the Dems have to swallow to get the tax cut's through. Even if it's just a 2 month process where the President gets to say 'yes' or 'no.' Because even the Dems are not great fact checkers. This needs better messaging. Cause you know an election is coming up.

34 jaunte  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:29:50pm

re: #32 EmmmieG

I've used 2Heads & 3Shoulders for years.

35 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:31:23pm

re: #26 EmmmieG

I'm still researching this one. I'm trying to find a website that can explain why I should worry about aluminum in my shampoo that ISN'T trying to sell me something.

You should worry about it because somebody used their imagination with some questionable correlations and a bit of bad logic that told them it was ooky.

36 freetoken  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:31:26pm

re: #25 b_sharp

Aluminum is the world's most common metal.

Hmmm... should I go all pedantic here... or should I just shut up and play some Christmas music?

Choice made:

37 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:33:20pm

re: #28 BishopX

The other thing to keep in mind is that memes have inertia. Much of the outrage was over draft versions of this bill. The legislative process worked in that the really extreme stuff got removed. The only problem is the outrage caused by those provisions sticks around longer than the actual language in the bill.

So while some of the outrage is just plain wrong, most of it is just outdated.

We can build inertial dampeners to fix that can't we?

38 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:33:34pm

Aluminum acetate is definitely not meant to be eaten. (Again, thanks for the tip; I'll remember not to put it in my broth.) It has an astringent effect,which is what it is used for, and according to the government MSDS sheet, is non-permeable on the skin.

Meaning, don't drink it and it can't get in your skin.

39 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:34:52pm

re: #32 EmmmieG

Just found one shampoo that contains aluminum acetate, but it's also a prescription medication for specific conditions. It also specifies it is not for ophthalmic use.

In other words, it's not supposed to go in your eyes.

Thanks for that tip.

How am I doing at unbrainwashing myself?

You need more aluminum in your diet.

40 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:35:25pm

re: #7 EmmmieG

Surveying the web:

We are all doomed. Obama is going to kidnap us, throw us in jail, hold us indefinitely, and then murder us. The bill of rights has been negated. Alex Jones thinks that Obama will use this to destroy the internets.

Oh, and our little dogs, too.

Now, the problem is that according to all the lefty blogs, the Bill of Rights was already negated back under Bush. So what happened. Did we bring it back and then negate it again?

41 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:36:02pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, the problem is that according to all the lefty blogs, the Bill of Rights was already negated back under Bush. So what happened. Did we bring it back and then negate it again?

It's kind of like a zombie, I guess.

We could try feeding it aluminum acetate and ammonium.

42 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:36:21pm

re: #9 EmmmieG

Alex Jones' survival seeds ad shows a little boy, dressed up as an elf, holding the seeds.

Ho. Ho. Ho. Merry Christmas kid. I'm sure you wanted these seeds as badly as legos.

They use a lot of kids in the photos. Very clean, well-nourished, suburban looking kids, not at all what your children are going to look like after society crumbles.

43 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:38:05pm

re: #26 EmmmieG

I'm still researching this one. I'm trying to find a website that can explain why I should worry about aluminum in my shampoo that ISN'T trying to sell me something.

Back when I was still on a bunch of 'young feminist' blogs, the thing was how antiperspirants poisoned you.

44 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:38:21pm

re: #36 freetoken

Hmmm... should I go all pedantic here... or should I just shut up and play some Christmas music?

Choice made:

[Video]

Aluminium 8% Iron 6% Calcium 5% Magnesium 3% Sodium 2.5% Potassium 1.5%

I've personally used up most of the lithium.

45 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:38:22pm

re: #25 b_sharp

Aluminum is the world's most common metal.

And you can make thermite with it.

but where can i get thermite poison?

46 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:38:41pm

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

Back when I was still on a bunch of 'young feminist' blogs, the thing was how antiperspirants poisoned you.

I'll be honest; I was trying to figure out how there could be ammonia in my shampoo without me smelling it.

47 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:39:02pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

Now, the problem is that according to all the lefty blogs, the Bill of Rights was already negated back under Bush. So what happened. Did we bring it back and then negate it again?

Yeah but no but yeah but no but yeah because Obama is the same as Bush, so yeah.

48 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:41:23pm

re: #43 SanFranciscoZionist

Back when I was still on a bunch of 'young feminist' blogs, the thing was how antiperspirants poisoned you.

The most dangerous toxin in the world is Dihydrogen Oxide.

Unless you get it in powdered form (Just add water and stir).

49 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:43:01pm

re: #48 b_sharp

The most dangerous toxin in the world is Dihydrogen Oxide.

Unless you get it in powdered form (Just add water and stir).

That stuff'l kill you.

50 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:43:09pm

re: #45 engineer dog

but where can i get thermite poison?

At the Ferric Oxide store.

51 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:43:11pm

I'm sitting here thinking that the average US female would put arsenic in her hair if it made it look good enough.

52 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:44:07pm

re: #48 b_sharp

The most dangerous toxin in the world is Dihydrogen Oxide.

Unless you get it in powdered form (Just add water and stir).

Check out the DiHydrogen Monoxide MSDS sheet!

[Link: www.dhmo.org...]

53 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:45:25pm

re: #50 b_sharp

At the Ferric Oxide store.

that's nice. i'd like to have a pet ferric

54 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:45:42pm

re: #51 EmmmieG

I'm sitting here thinking that the average US female would put arsenic in her hair if it made it look good enough.

Well, we no longer put powdered lead in face powder, OTOH there was that weird story with the woman in Florida who was injecting people's butts with Fix-A-Flat.

55 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:46:08pm

re: #32 EmmmieG

Just found one shampoo that contains aluminum acetate, but it's also a prescription medication for specific conditions. It also specifies it is not for ophthalmic use.

In other words, it's not supposed to go in your eyes.

Thanks for that tip.

How am I doing at unbrainwashing myself?

What good is a shampoo if I can't wash my eyeballs with it? I'm calling David Horowitz.

56 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:46:18pm

re: #53 engineer dog

that's nice. i'd like to have a pet ferric

Ferrics are illegal in California.

57 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:46:40pm

re: #52 engineer dog

Check out the DiHydrogen Monoxide MSDS sheet!

[Link: www.dhmo.org...]

Now that really is funny.

58 Cap'nDave  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:48:05pm

SEC. 1031. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE
AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF MILITARY FORCE.

(a) In General.--Congress affirms that the authority of the
President to use all necessary and appropriate force pursuant to the
Authorization for Use of Military Force (Public Law 107-40) includes
the authority for the Armed Forces of the United States to detain
covered persons (as defined in subsection (b)) pending disposition
under the law of war.
(b) Covered Persons.--A covered person under this section is any
person as follows:
(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided
the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or
harbored those responsible for those attacks.
(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported
al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in
hostilities against the United States or its coalition
partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent
act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such
enemy forces.
(c) Disposition Under Law of War.--The disposition of a person
under the law of war as described in subsection (a) may include the
following:
(1) Detention under the law of war without trial until the
end of the hostilities authorized by the Authorization for Use
of Military Force.
(2) Trial under chapter 47A of title 10, United States Code
(as amended by the Military Commissions Act of 2009 (title
XVIII of Public Law 111-84)).
(3) Transfer for trial by an alternative court or competent
tribunal having lawful jurisdiction.
(4) Transfer to the custody or control of the person's
country of origin, any other foreign country, or any other
foreign entity.
(d) Construction.--Nothing in this section is intended to limit or
expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization
for Use of Military Force.
(e) Authorities.--Nothing in this section shall be construed to
affect existing law or authorities, relating to the detention of United
States citizens, lawful resident aliens of the United States or any
other persons who are captured or arrested in the United States.
(f) Requirement for Briefings of Congress.--The Secretary of
Defense shall regularly brief Congress regarding the application of the
authority described in this section, including the organizations,
entities, and individuals considered to be ``covered persons'' for
purposes of subsection (b)(2).

SEC. 1032. REQUIREMENT FOR MILITARY CUSTODY.

(a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War.--
(1) In general.--Except as provided in paragraph (4), the
Armed Forces of the United States shall hold a person described
in paragraph (2) who is captured in the course of hostilities
authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force
(Public Law 107-40) in military custody pending disposition
under the law of war.
(2) Covered persons.--The requirement in paragraph (1)
shall apply to any person whose detention is authorized under
section 1031 who is determined--
(A) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an
associated force that acts in coordination with or
pursuant to the direction of al-Qaeda; and
(B) to have participated in the course of planning
or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against
the United States or its coalition partners...

....(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident
Aliens.--
(1)United states citizens.--The requirement to detain a
person in military custody under this section does not extend
to citizens of the United States.

(2) Lawful resident aliens.--The requirement to detain a
person in military custody under this section does not extend
to a lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of
conduct taking place within the United States, except to the
extent permitted by the Constitution of the United States.

59 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:49:55pm

re: #52 engineer dog

Check out the DiHydrogen Monoxide MSDS sheet!

[Link: www.dhmo.org...]

That was brilliant.

Since it can also be used to treat dehydration, I'm starting a company to market it in powder form. I'm contemplating selling kits complete with mixing container and water as a reagent.

60 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:50:47pm

re: #12 Charles

I have to say, though - the left's fake outrages tend to be based on exaggerations of real issues, while the right's fake outrages are usually completely delusional.

I'd also like to point out that the Liberal fake outrages are often self-debunking. Every time there is something like antivax bs, NDAA hyperventilation, etc from liberals other prominent liberals stand up and say "you are fscking morons". How often does that happen with right wing outrages?

61 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:51:21pm

re: #53 engineer dog

that's nice. i'd like to have a pet ferric

We have a colony of wild ferrics just west of the city in the red hills.

62 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:52:14pm

re: #52 engineer dog

Check out the DiHydrogen Monoxide MSDS sheet!

[Link: www.dhmo.org...]

They're a bit misleading on this point:

Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.

In fact, excessive ingestion can lead to an electrolytic imbalance, which in turn can cause fatal heart attacks. I would characterize that as "life threatening".

63 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:53:13pm

re: #60 prononymous

I'd also like to point out that the Liberal fake outrages are often self-debunking. Every time there is something like antivax bs, NDAA hyperventilation, etc from liberals other liberals stand up and say "you are fscking morons". How often does that happen with right wing outrages?

Every blue moon.

64 engineer cat  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:54:27pm

re: #59 b_sharp

That was brilliant.

Since it can also be used to treat dehydration, I'm starting a company to market it in powder form. I'm contemplating selling kits complete with mixing container and water as a reagent.

the authors give away their identities in the list of people and agencies known to use DMHO:

by software engineers, including those producing DICOM programmer APIs and other DICOM software tools including DICOM routers

hackerz rule d00d!

65 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 7:56:51pm

re: #60 prononymous

How often does that happen with right wing outrages?

I try frequently within my own family, but some members are biblical literalists, sooo...

66 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 8:02:05pm

re: #65 Slumbering Behemoth

I try frequently within my own family, but some members are biblical literalists, sooo...

Yeah, there are plenty of individual conservatives (not major public figures) that are willing to speak up against a fake RW outrage. There are plenty of such fine freethinkers here, for example. But I would argue that many conservatives would reject you as one of their own for doing so. While I imagine most liberals will accept that Adam Serwer is still a liberal even if they don't agree with this particular point.

67 b_sharp  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 8:02:30pm

G'night.

68 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 8:02:37pm

re: #7 EmmmieG

Surveying the web:

We are all doomed. Obama is going to kidnap us, throw us in jail, hold us indefinitely, and then murder us. The bill of rights has been negated. Alex Jones thinks that Obama will use this to destroy the internets.

Oh, and our little dogs, too.

Business networking site LinkedIn made the mistake of featuring this piece of dreck as a 'most linked to' earlier today. I was shocked to see its level of hate and stupidity.

Thank you, Charles, for once again working to knock OUTRAGEOUS OUTRAGE!!1 stories on the head.

69 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 8:13:00pm

re: #66 prononymous

Yeah, there are plenty of individual conservatives (not major public figures) that are willing to speak up against a fake RW outrage.

:waves hand:

But I would argue that many conservatives would reject you as one of their own for doing so.

:sad waves hand:

I'm just another filthy RINO. At least until the next primary.

Although I do know many conservative leaning folk, like me, who are sick of the modern GOP, like me.

70 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 8:25:41pm

re: #69 Slumbering Behemoth

:waves hand:

:sad waves hand:

I'm just another filthy RINO. At least until the next primary.

Although I do know many conservative leaning folk, like me, who are sick of the modern GOP, like me.

I don't care what label you take, you are good company. Fools don't know what they are missing.

71 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 8:43:29pm

re: #70 prononymous

Kind of you to say, thanks. :)

The GOP could care less about my company, and the feeling is mutual. They've gone full BONSAI! with this fundamentalist christian crap, and with me not being religious, they really couldn't give a flying fuck about appealing to my sense of conservatism.

There are some republican politicians out there that haven't lost their mind, but they aren't in my part of CA, and they certainly aren't the ones on the national tickets lately.

72 prairiefire  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 8:48:09pm

re: #71 Slumbering Behemoth

Hey, sleepy, hope you are well!

73 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 8:53:28pm

My thoughts on the 60-day payroll tax holiday deal:

I think the short-term deal reflects a general 'truce of mutual exhaustion' in Congress. It has been a very combative year and members of Congress simply don't want to continue to fight about the budget anymore for right now, so they compromised. It's not the start of a trend, but rather an admission that both sides are weary and in need of rest. The issue will return in a month, but at least the budget is going through (this last is important to me as it will lift the Continuing Resolution, and allow government organizations more leeway to attend events).

74 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 8:54:47pm

re: #58 Cap'nDave

(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or aided
the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or
harbored those responsible for those attacks.
(2) A person who was a part of or substantially supported
al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in
hostilities against the United States or its coalition
partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent
act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such
enemy forces.

This is what I haven't understood about this bill from the beginning. How is the "Covered Person's" Status to be determined? Are they tried in absentia before the military apprehends them?

How can due process be served if the person is determined guilty before trial?

75 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 8:57:24pm

regardless of stripe a kitteh is still a kitteh

76 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:01:27pm

re: #71 Slumbering Behemoth

Hopefully one day you will get some local politicians that align with your principles and aren't crazy. I'm really sad about the state of the Republican party. Even though most would consider me a liberal* I really wish Republicans would get their shit together because it helps keep Democrats honest. But if the only other party is bat-shit insane then Democrats think they have the sane vote by default and get lazy and stupid.

*Personally, I don't really like the conservative and liberal labels. It's like you can be defined as somewhere along a continuous spectrum. But I think of my views more as an emission spectrum. The light might be perceived as a single color by eye, but when broken down with a prism individual lines show up spread all across the spectrum in various places. I was even going to call it Quantum Politics and make a little essay about it but inspiration hasn't really hit yet.

77 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:03:26pm

re: #74 ggt

This is what I haven't understood about this bill from the beginning. How is the "Covered Person's" Status to be determined? Are they tried in absentia before the military apprehends them?

How can due process be served if the person is determined guilty before trial?

Non-citizens found to be part of Al Qaeda are not entitled to due process, beyond perhaps a hearing to show some evidence they are part of the terror network. But once that evidence is shown (and the standard is not "beyond a reasonable doubt", its at most "clear and convincing evidence"), then non-citizen can be held for the duration of hostilities.

78 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:03:36pm

re: #75 ggt

Awww. :)

79 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:04:46pm

re: #75 ggt

regardless of stripe a kitteh is still a kitteh

Yeah, but that tiger cub will grow up to be able to tear you to pieces in seconds. That tempers the cuteness a bit.

80 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:05:16pm

re: #72 prairiefire

Hey, sleepy, hope you are well!

Not really. Been sick with an asskicker of a sinus infection. I'm on the mend, though. This year hasn't been so swell for the Behemoth clan either, and this last month the worst what with all the high winds knocking down trees all over the damn place.

I'll tell you this, anyone who says owners of residential rental property are swimming in money is either stupid, ignorant, or full of shit. And that's all the bitching I'm gonna do for now.

81 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:10:56pm

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, but that tiger cub will grow up to be able to tear you to pieces in seconds. That tempers the cuteness a bit.

YOu say that every time and I just don't buy it.

A baby is a baby.

Cuter when the baby is a kitten in a box.

82 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:12:11pm

re: #81 ggt

YOu say that every time and I just don't buy it.

A baby is a baby.

Cuter when the baby is a kitten in a box.

I guess it just comes back to how I see things.

83 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:16:52pm

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, but that tiger cub will grow up to be able to tear you to pieces in seconds. That tempers the cuteness a bit.

True, they can be dangerous - if they want to be. Though I found this touching, granted it's a lion not a tiger:

84 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:18:52pm

Is everyone playing video games?

85 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:19:49pm

re: #76 prononymous

Hopefully one day you will get some local politicians that align with your principles and aren't crazy.

Heh. The Dems in my area likely look more like Reps from other areas. When we've got prime time commercial slots where local retailers talk about "Putting Christ Back In Christmas" while peddling their stock, I really don't see the wacko-fundie influence fading in my neck of CA any time soon.

86 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:21:26pm

re: #77 Dark_Falcon

Non-citizens found to be part of Al Qaeda are not entitled to due process, beyond perhaps a hearing to show some evidence they are part of the terror network. But once that evidence is shown (and the standard is not "beyond a reasonable doubt", its at most "clear and convincing evidence"), then non-citizen can be held for the duration of hostilities.

Well. that is the claim. There are those of us who would argue, instead, that anyone covered by the judicial system of our nation would be entitled to all the legal protections of citizens. When one remembers the kinds of judicial excesses that lead, in part, to our revolution, I have no doubt that I'd get between 50 & 70 % of the proverbial "founding fathers" agreeing with me. They would consider it as part of keeping "government" in general in check and, as a result, a good thing. It goes along with the concept (heresy these days) that it's better for a guilty person to go free than an innocent to be condemned.

Beyond a reasonable doubt must be the minimum for all judicial proceedings IMO & all that.

87 Interesting Times  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:22:03pm

re: #83 prononymous

True, they can be dangerous - if they want to be.

The most vicious, deadly, and horrific predators on Earth.

88 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:24:44pm

re: #87 publicityStunted

The most vicious, dangerous, and horrific predators on Earth.

I'd say "successful" but other than that, well, yeah. Top of that food chain and a 150 gr. .30-30 to provide dinner.

;)

89 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:24:59pm

re: #83 prononymous

I showed that to my mom a couple of years back. Much squee ensued.

I'm not going to lie, though. If I were one of those two guys crazy enough to take that chance, I would have defecated food eaten in past lives the second that lion went into a trot. Could've gone either way.

90 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:25:35pm

re: #1 Killgore Trout

It seems a reasonable fact checking. I clicked the URL and it goes to Mother Jones. LOL! Were there some editorial changes over there? They also debunked the lefty "Israel trained US to crack down on OWS" conspiracy theory. It's nice to see some honest reporting from them.

It's only honest when it supports your position on a given subject. Otherwise, it's just propaganda. Please make a note of this.

91 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:26:15pm

re: #85 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah. Really ticks me off. When are we going to get over religion as a litmus test? It's supposed to be WE the people but I can guarantee I would never be elected as an open Atheist. Not very "representative" if you ask me. :(

92 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:27:15pm

re: #87 publicityStunted

The most vicious, dangerous, and horrific predators on Earth.

Yep...I wouldn't trust these fuckers as far as I could throw them.

93 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:29:00pm

re: #91 prononymous

Yeah. Really ticks me off. When are we going to get over religion as a litmus test?

WHEN EVERYONE ON THE PLANET ACCEPTS JESUS AS THEIR FUCKING SAVIOR AND NOT A MOMENT SOONER! Got it?

94 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:29:33pm

re: #90 darthstar

It's only honest when it supports your position on a given subject. Otherwise, it's just propaganda. Please make a note of this.

Now, now, don't be going and expecting honesty there. You might accidentally think you could get a rational discussion on OWS for example.

95 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:30:53pm

re: #91 prononymous

Things may look drastically different, in a good way, for our grand-children's generation.

Well, yours anyway. I'm not having any kids myself.

96 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:31:02pm

re: #89 Slumbering Behemoth

Lol, indeed. That trot was fairly ambiguous.

97 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:33:16pm

How is a person's citizenship determined? By a politican, a law enforment officer an administrator or a judge?

I that that anyone on US soil was considered a US Person and thus entitled to all rights --including due process.

98 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:33:31pm

OWS?

:tap tap: I'm out. Peace Lizards, until next time.

99 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:33:52pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

Good night.

100 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:34:53pm

re: #86 wlewisiii

The whole point of these rules is to establish that a non-citizen captured overseas is not in the judicial system and is not entitled to its protections. They are not being detained as a criminal, they are being detained
as an enemy combatant.

101 Kronocide  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:35:08pm

Facebook people: please Like the Elf Foundation.

It's focus is to fund home theaters in children's hospitals, bringing 5.1 channels of 1080P distraction for a few hours for kids in need. They sort of died down with the economy but us pros want to kick this thing back up.

102 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:35:59pm

The good people at Lucas gave my wife a 25% discount on the Wampa but still...it's not a dog bed. It's a 120 dollar chew toy that will be spread all over the floor when we wake up tomorrow.

103 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:36:40pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

OWS?

:tap tap: I'm out. Peace Lizards, until next time.

No masturbating in the tent...we can hear it all the way across the square!

104 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:38:25pm

re: #97 ggt

How is a person's citizenship determined? By a politican, a law enforment officer an administrator or a judge?

I that that anyone on US soil was considered a US Person and thus entitled to all rights --including due process.

I disagree, but the bill makes that the president's call, though the courts are explicitly granted the right to review it (this last seems a possible add-on to forstall "Tenther" ideas of withdrawing such a decisions from judicial review).

105 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:39:12pm

re: #100 Dark_Falcon

The whole point of these rules is to establish that a non-citizen captured overseas is not in the judicial system and is not entitled to its protections. They are not being detained as a criminal, they are being detained
as an enemy combatant.

Understood. I have simply always argued that I believe they are not soldiers, not combatants but criminals no different than mafiosa or columbian drug lords. As a result they should be treated the same.

WHY do they deserve to be treated like honorable soldiers when 99.99% of them will not act like soldiers? No, they are simply criminals to be dealt with, and disposed of, accordingly. To do otherwise grants them more respect than they deserve.

106 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:40:25pm

re: #103 darthstar

No masturbating in the tent...we can hear it all the way across the square!

SB wasn't masturbating, he was getting some! That noise you heard was the hippie chick getting hers!

/I am so gonna catch it for this one.

107 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:41:34pm

There are a few people who probably believe Obama qualifies as an Al Quaeda member and a non-citizen.

What processes are in place to make sure a tyrannical Theocratic POTUS doesn't decide it's ok to "detain" citizens he doesn't like?

Seriously, I have issues with due process being denied.

108 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:42:18pm

Unbelievable 15 yr. old guitarist!!! super fast acoustic shredding - phunkdified justin king


Just filler while the roadies set up for the next act
109 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:42:23pm

re: #101 BigPapa

Facebook people: please Like the Elf Foundation.

It's focus is to fund home theaters in children's hospitals, bringing 5.1 channels of 1080P distraction for a few hours for kids in need. They sort of died down with the economy but us pros want to kick this thing back up.

Okay, okay, I liked the fuckin' elves...I'm getting more and more involved in non-profits these days...just adoped some little fucker named Ahmed for Xmas through the club...wanted a Fisher Price truck (he's two)...spent a good hour in ToysRus hell trying to pick out the best truck to give him. Two doors down is Coastside Hope (a community outreach center)...dropped off a bunch of food yesterday, but realized that, since we're going to be around over the holidays, we can probably volunteer some time with them. I'm turning into a fucking good samaritan here...I used to just do good shit for the sake of doing it...now I'm actually thinking about it in advance.

110 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:43:10pm

re: #105 wlewisiii

Understood. I have simply always argued that I believe they are not soldiers, not combatants but criminals no different than mafiosa or columbian drug lords. As a result they should be treated the same.

WHY do they deserve to be treated like honorable soldiers when 99.99% of them will not act like soldiers? No, they are simply criminals to be dealt with, and disposed of, accordingly. To do otherwise grants them more respect than they deserve.

Hence their designation as "unlawful combatants". It is also needed for cases where we capture someone who is fighting us, but who cannot be linked to an act of terrorism. To set that person free would simply allow him to resume the fight, but he may not be eligible for a trial. For such foreign nationals, detention is the best policy.

111 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:44:47pm

re: #106 Dark_Falcon

SB wasn't masturbating, he was getting some! That noise you heard was the hippie chick getting hers!

/I am so gonna catch it for this one.

"Hippie chicks" like fucking, and they don't see anything wrong with it (they're right, by the way)...I enjoyed my hippie days. But I do love being married to the woman I am now married to all the same.

112 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:45:00pm

re: #107 ggt

There are a few people who probably believe Obama qualifies as an Al Quaeda member and a non-citizen.

What processes are in place to make sure a tyrannical Theocratic POTUS doesn't decide it's ok to "detain" citizens he doesn't like?

Seriously, I have issues with due process being denied.

An attempt to hold someone captured within the US in military custody will be eligible for judicial review. The judicial review is the safeguard.

113 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:45:00pm

re: #92 darthstar

Them? Let me let you in on a secret: Don't let your guard down. Not even for a second.

They will own you and everything you have in a heartbeat.

Trust me.

114 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:45:22pm

OK, a bit of clarity has some good information.

I feel better.

115 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:46:23pm

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

An attempt to hold someone captured within the US in military custody will be eligible for judicial review. The judicial review is the safeguard.

Unless the panel for the "judicial review" is a bunch of bigoted assholes. (and yes, we do have bigoted assholes in this country too)

116 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:47:31pm

Just got home from the Moose lodge.. I have to go to work early in the morning..
I blew the Lodge away.. I sang Loser by 3 doors down...You know I'm not shy..It was so much fun...I'm not your topical Oklahoma kind of guy...
I sing with no issue..
How are you guys tonight?

117 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:47:40pm

re: #113 EmmmieG

Them? Let me let you in on a secret: Don't let your guard down. Not even for a second.

They will own you and everything you have in a heartbeat.

Trust me.

I only wish I was as smart and calculating as they are when I was their age...I'd be set for life.

118 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:48:31pm

re: #116 HoosierHoops

Just got home from the Moose lodge.. I have to go to work early in the morning..
I blew the Lodge away.. I sang Loser by 3 doors down...You know I'm not shy..It was so much fun...I'm not your topical Oklahoma kind of guy...
I sing with no issue..
How are you guys tonight?

Did you sing it to the tune of "Holly Jolly Christmas"...that would have been impressive.

119 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:50:23pm

re: #110 Dark_Falcon

Such concerns didn't stop us in Panama.... :oops:

The problem is that it tries to pretend there is something, a category, that is neither criminal or soldier. We have centuries of experience dealing with POW's & with arrested criminals. We do not have room for something else within the context of our system. Why should we try to shoehorn an unnecessary new definition in there? I have yet to see a valid reason given. Either they are criminals (have the police haul them away) or they are soldiers (POW camps like in WWII.) Simple and tons of case law dealing with both cases.

120 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:50:53pm

re: #115 darthstar

Unless the panel for the "judicial review" is a bunch of bigoted assholes. (and yes, we do have bigoted assholes in this country too)

The first one will go all the way to the Supreme Court, which has no bigoted assholes. So have confidence, because the safeguard is good.

121 reine.de.tout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:51:20pm

re: #102 darthstar

The good people at Lucas gave my wife a 25% discount on the Wampa but still...it's not a dog bed. It's a 120 dollar chew toy that will be spread all over the floor when we wake up tomorrow.

Sorta like what my daughter's dog did over the course of 3 days at my house?

122 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:52:18pm

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

The first one will go all the way to the Supreme Court, which has no bigoted assholes. So have confidence, because the safeguard is good.

Well, if you don't count Thomas, Scalia, Alito or Roberts. Those fuckers are as closed-minded as Boehner or McConnell.

123 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:52:50pm

ACLU seems be agin' it (HB 1540).

124 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:52:51pm

re: #121 reine.de.tout

Sorta like what my daughter's dog did over the course of 3 days at my house?

That's a good dog.

125 reine.de.tout  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:53:28pm

re: #124 darthstar

That's a good dog.

That is actually a most excellent dog.

126 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:53:40pm

re: #116 HoosierHoops

Just got home from the Moose lodge.. I have to go to work early in the morning..
I blew the Lodge away.. I sang Loser by 3 doors down...You know I'm not shy..It was so much fun...I'm not your topical Oklahoma kind of guy...
I sing with no issue..
How are you guys tonight?

Moose club... my Uncle is in the local Moose. I've never been too hip on those social clubs but I always had a soft spot for the Moose. Glad you're having fun there.

127 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:56:18pm

re: #118 darthstar

Did you sing it to the tune of "Holly Jolly Christmas"...that would have been impressive.

No..I had 4 shots and rocked the joint out...It was so much fun my bro..
I've been lucky that God has giving me a better good voice...It was fun tonight.. There are some here that have heard me sing and play.. It's fun..
I'm shouldn't brag but I'm not shy.. I will play and sing with anyone...Doesn't mean I'm good.. It means I will sing or play with anyone..It it doesn't matter to me...
It is fun to do

128 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:56:21pm

re: #126 wlewisiii

Moose club... my Uncle is in the local Moose. I've never been too hip on those social clubs but I always had a soft spot for the Moose. Glad you're having fun there.

My dad was an Elk. And a Rotarian. I learned a few years ago that Rotarians are, by and large, about as fucked up and conservative as the Chamber of Commerce - of which most of them were also members.

Yeah...my dad still thinks Obama was born in Kenya...sometimes I think he's one of the conservative lizards we have here when I read their comments.

129 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:58:02pm

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

The first one will go all the way to the Supreme Court, which has no bigoted assholes.

lmao

130 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:58:22pm

re: #126 wlewisiii

Moose club... my Uncle is in the local Moose. I've never been too hip on those social clubs but I always had a soft spot for the Moose. Glad you're having fun there.

Hey Bro.. When I move to a new town I join a new club..I meet new people

131 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:58:37pm

re: #127 HoosierHoops

I only do Neil Diamond or Grateful Dead songs at Karaoke. Neil Diamond because I have had his songs memorized since childhood. The Dead because I love their music. But I find once I get into Neil it's hard to stop me...and the "DJs" usually start pulling songs for me to sing from Neil so I don't have to read their catalog.

132 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:59:07pm

re: #127 HoosierHoops

LOL! Not shy! Hello, you!

133 freetoken  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 9:59:57pm
134 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:00:36pm

re: #132 Floral Giraffe

LOL! Not shy! Hello, you!

Hi You!
I'm heading back to Cali Soon.. how are you my friend?

135 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:00:54pm

re: #133 freetoken

[Video]

That song so fuckin' rocks.

136 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:01:05pm

re: #122 darthstar

Well, if you don't count Thomas, Scalia, Alito or Roberts. Those fuckers are as closed-minded as Boehner or McConnell.

I disagree, strongly. And none of them are bigoted. Do you think that all conservatives are "bigoted"? Because that's kind of what it sounds like.

137 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:01:16pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

Very fine, how are you? Your Pops?

138 prairiefire  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:02:22pm

re: #101 BigPapa

Facebook people: please Like the Elf Foundation.

It's focus is to fund home theaters in children's hospitals, bringing 5.1 channels of 1080P distraction for a few hours for kids in need. They sort of died down with the economy but us pros want to kick this thing back up.

That looks like a great effort!

139 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:02:39pm

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

I disagree, strongly. And none of them are bigoted. Do you think that all conservatives are "bigoted"? Because that's kind of what it sounds like.

No, I don't believe all conservatives are bigoted assholes, but I do believe that those four fuckers are damn close, if not full-on to, being bigoted assholes.

140 Kronocide  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:02:48pm

re: #125 reine.de.tout

That is actually a most excellent dog.

99% of dogs are excellent. Except for the ones messed up by peoples.

141 darthstar  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:03:55pm

Banjo is sleeping on his new Wampa. I think I'll take the missus and head to bed.

See you all tomorrow. Please try not to be wrong in my absence.

142 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:04:54pm

re: #131 darthstar

I only do Neil Diamond or Grateful Dead songs at Karaoke. Neil Diamond because I have had his songs memorized since childhood. The Dead because I love their music. But I find once I get into Neil it's hard to stop me...and the "DJs" usually start pulling songs for me to sing from Neil so I don't have to read their catalog.

If I actually have enough strong drink in me to do karaoke and yet not so much as to be incoherent, I'm doing either my Rodger Daltry impression (Who are you? or You Better You Bet) or my BOC impression (Burning For You, Don't Fear The Reaper, or (if it's a really good Karaoke system) In Thee)

143 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:05:07pm

There are some fucking excellent dogs!

And, of course, my new favorite video.

144 prairiefire  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:08:39pm

re: #131 darthstar

Cracklin' Rosie sing me a song...

145 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:13:54pm

Goodnight, all.

146 freetoken  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:14:29pm
147 freetoken  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:14:48pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

148 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:16:26pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Goodnight, all.

Good night as well. Till the morrow, all.

149 A Man for all Seasons  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:17:55pm

re: #137 Floral Giraffe

Very fine, how are you? Your Pops?

Hi You.. Pops has very little time left...It hurts more than you can believe..
You know a couple of years ago I teased everyone here that if the old man passed on I'd move back home.. Yes folks Pops has several houses in Napa Valley but I never thought It would come to this...The pain is so much...
I love my dad.. I'd give up my life for him...I love him so much..
I will protect the art work that mom and him put together..The house..
The life they put together.. I'll be back home soon.. And I hate every moment of it...Every second...

150 prairiefire  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:20:08pm

re: #149 HoosierHoops

Courage, friend. God bless.

151 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:22:29pm

re: #149 HoosierHoops

*smooch*
And a big (((hug)))

152 freetoken  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:24:26pm
153 Stanghazi  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:29:11pm

re: #149 HoosierHoops

Aw geeze Hoops. So hard. You can make it, we all have to. Speaking as one who sees this in the near future.

Thoughts your way.

154 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:30:05pm

re: #149 HoosierHoops

Hi You.. Pops has very little time left...It hurts more than you can believe..
You know a couple of years ago I teased everyone here that if the old man passed on I'd move back home.. Yes folks Pops has several houses in Napa Valley but I never thought It would come to this...The pain is so much...
I love my dad.. I'd give up my life for him...I love him so much..
I will protect the art work that mom and him put together..The house..
The life they put together.. I'll be back home soon.. And I hate every moment of it...Every second...

Yeah, I remember being there with my mother.

There was a story I read when I was staying in Japan a lifetime ago. A man visited a famous calligrapher. After they had talked for awhile, the mad asked the calligrapher for a hanging. The calligrapher thought for a moment then painted:

Grandfather dies.
Father dies.
Son dies.

Needless to say, the man got all worked up at how horrible this was. But the calligrapher explained it this way - for his work to come to be, then life must pass as we hope it will. First the grandfather will live a long full life, then pass on. Next the father will live a long full life and then pass on. Finally the son will live an equally long full life before passing on. In this way, the best way of the world is expressed.

155 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:33:01pm

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

And none of them are bigoted.

Yes, some of them are.

Do you think that all conservatives are "bigoted"? Because that's kind of what it sounds like.

e_e

Persecution complex. The reference was to less than 5 people. Do five people represent "all conservatives" to you? Do you think they all look alike?

156 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:42:09pm

Now, g'night for real :)

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Dec 16, 2011 10:55:01pm

re: #79 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, but that tiger cub will grow up to be able to tear you to pieces in seconds. That tempers the cuteness a bit.

Love 'em while they're little.

158 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:39:04am

Hello o o o o .

159 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:40:00am

re: #158 Stanley Sea

It's late. We should be sleeping.
*waves*

160 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:45:50am

re: #159 Floral Giraffe

It's late. We should be sleeping.
*waves*

Hey Ms. Floral! I'm sitting around fire pit with really, tonight, asshole politically defunct roommates. Usually cool, tonight ugh.

Haha please save me LGF'rs!!

161 Dancing along the light of day  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:51:20am

re: #160 Stanley Sea

It's frraking cold. Tell them you're cold & go to bed!
Sleep tight. Don't let the bedbugs bite!

162 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:59:26am

re: #160 Stanley Sea

Hey Ms. Floral! I'm sitting around fire pit with really, tonight, asshole politically defunct roommates. Usually cool, tonight ugh.

Haha please save me LGF'rs!!

163 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:01:14am

Oops.

164 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:04:32am

I'm taking a trip down memory lane. Paul the world cup sage.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

165 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:05:31am

I love cephalopods. :)

166 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:13:54am

Night!

167 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:14:15am

Good night.

168 researchok  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:18:02am

Morning, all

169 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:18:42am

Good morning, researchok. :)

170 researchok  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:18:47am

re: #152 freetoken

[Video]

'File not found'

171 researchok  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:19:41am

re: #169 prononymous

Morning to you too.

Assuming you changed your mind about the good night thing.

172 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:27:19am

re: #171 researchok

I was saying good night to Stanley Sea. Though I may have to follow that course of action myself soon.

173 researchok  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:32:44am

re: #172 prononymous

Well, it is pretty quiet this time of night/day.

I use the early AM to get ready for my day (work wise). Lots of reading, email to deal with, like that.

174 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:37:23am

re: #173 researchok

That's a good strategy. I wish I was a morning person, but I'm roughly 180 degrees out of phase. I use the early AM to finish up misc projects before sleep.

175 engineer cat  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:38:41am

i'm watching Fame, 1980

it takes place in america i recognize, the vital, colorful, optimistic america of the late 20th century. these days something seems drained, beat, mechanical, scared

in 1930 people were scared, but they expected things to get better soon. by 1931 they realized they were sure enough screwed for a long time to come and who knew how bad things were going to get

its been over ten years now, twelve really, since the last boom. waiting for things to pick up is getting gritty and stale

america will shine again, i'm sure. but there's something i've learned from my divorce - to be reborn, you have to die some first

176 researchok  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:43:41am

re: #174 prononymous

I'm no morning person.

I do this out of necessity. And I never get used to it.

I suppose that's why they call it work. very few people get up and says 'Hey, I'm off to fun!'

177 researchok  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:44:30am

re: #175 engineer dog

More than a bit of truth to that.

178 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:47:47am

re: #176 researchok

I'm sorry to hear it.

I think my work is fun and rewarding. I just have insomnia so I do the boring stuff last.

179 researchok  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:50:20am

re: #178 prononymous

I do enjoy much of the work.

It's the grind that gets to me. I'm swamped.

180 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:53:04am

re: #179 researchok

Oh. I can see that. I'm not looking forward to how little free time I will soon have when I ramp production...

181 researchok  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:56:44am

re: #180 prononymous

Sleep while you can....

182 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 2:00:20am

re: #181 researchok

Heh, thanks. I guess the upshot is that exhaustion will probably slay my insomnia.

183 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 4:41:49am

morning all!

184 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:02:57am
185 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:04:17am

re: #184 Varek Raith

Image: 143e3a38-adae-45fe-bf82-07e6b702db70.jpeg

I had an argument?

186 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:04:47am

It's snowing in the Very Far Western Parts of Chicagoland.

Dogs think it's cool. Brat Puppy thinks it's especially cool.

187 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:05:28am

So I saw in the other thread Hitchens' claim about Reagan and the Russian word for freedom.

Of course, I had to find that speech immediately.

[Link: www.reagan.utexas.edu...]

Mr. Widlake. Mr. Shultz is off to Moscow on Saturday to do the groundwork for this summit fully aware, as he himself admits, that there are major differences between the United States and Russia. Apart from the paranoia which you talked about, what are those differences as you see them?

The President. Oh, my heavens. Here are two systems so diametrically opposed that -- I'm no linguist, but I've been told that in the Russian language there isn't even a word for freedom.

LOL@stupid

188 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:06:09am

re: #185 ggt

I had an argument?

Yes...

Morning.

:P

189 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:07:02am

re: #188 Varek Raith

- No I don't.
- Now you do.

190 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:07:38am

re: #188 Varek Raith

Yes...

Morning.

:P

I never argue with the undead
-
-
---
-
-
-
-

-
-
-in the morning.

191 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:08:40am

I'm having a hard time seeing how both of these statements from Serwer can be true at the same time:

FTA:

So it's simply not true, as the Guardian wrote yesterday, that the the bill "allows the military to indefinitely detain without trial American terrorism suspects arrested on US soil who could then be shipped to Guantánamo Bay." When the New York Times editorial page writes that the bill would "strip the F.B.I., federal prosecutors and federal courts of all or most of their power to arrest and prosecute terrorists and hand it off to the military," or that the "legislation could also give future presidents the authority to throw American citizens into prison for life without charges or a trial," they're simply wrong.

From one of his supporting links re: the compromise:
[Link: motherjones.com...]

The bill also authorizes the indefinite military detention of American citizens and permanent residents if they are suspected of links to Al Qaeda, something so controversial that even the Bush administration balked at it, slipping Jose Padilla back into the criminal justice system after years of military detention in order to avoid a confrontation with the Supreme Court. Congress is preparing to overturn a precedent that was followed almost without exception by the Bush administration: Domestic terrorism arrests are the province of law enforcement, not the military. The provision passed out of the Democratic-controlled Senate Armed Services Committee with only a single dissenting vote, from Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.).

Am I missing something? The whole piece seems like he's having a semantic argument with himself. The bill doesn't make it mandatory that the president turn over American citizens to the military but it does authorize him to do so if he wants. I don't think the fact that it isn't mandatory (thanks to loopholes) is going to calm the nerves of groups like the ACLU.

192 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:09:17am

re: #185 ggt

I had an argument?

It's not "morning" everywhere. You need to be more precise in your greetings.//

193 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:10:11am

re: #190 ggt

I never argue with the undead
-
-
---
-
-
-
-

-
-
-in the morning.

Image: funny-pictures-itteh-bitteh-tetris-kitteh-committeh.jpg

194 Amory Blaine  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:10:20am

re: #175 engineer dog

Fuckin' a man.

195 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:10:59am

re: #187 Sergey Romanov

So I saw in the other thread Hitchens' claim about Reagan and the Russian word for freedom.
.....
LOL@stupid

Is it водка?

196 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:11:39am

re: #191 RogueOne

Yeah, I also read that and kinda wondered.

197 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:13:19am

re: #195 RogueOne

Is it водка?

Commie bastard.

198 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:14:05am

re: #195 RogueOne

Is it водка?

That's a philosophical question.

199 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:14:18am

re: #194 Amory Blaine

Fuckin' a man.

Hope it's consensual.

200 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:17:24am

re: #198 Sergey Romanov

That's a philosophical question.

One of my duties as a young officer was to escort a russian officer around during a joint meeting in the early 90's. The love of vodka can really bring people together.

201 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:18:30am

re: #200 RogueOne

One of my duties as a young officer was to escort a russian officer around during a joint meeting in the early 90's. The love of vodka can really bring people together.

202 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:20:10am

So, I'm driving into work last night and figure I;ll stop at Krogers (grocery store) to get a box of cereal and a banana for breakfast this morning (instead of the usual collection of glazed donuts of coffee cake that's always in the kitchen)

So, I go to have a nice healthy bowl of said cereal w/ banana only to discover THERE'S NO MILK IN THE FRIDGE

)well hello, glazed donut,,, you look mighty fine this a.m.)

203 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:20:17am

re: #200 RogueOne

I got nothing. I almost never drink vodka.

204 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:21:13am

re: #203 Sergey Romanov

I got nothing. I almost never drink vodka.

I only drink Vodka when I'm having a martini (or straight!)
I only have a martini when we go out to dinner (or stay home for dinner)

:)

205 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:21:19am

re: #203 Sergey Romanov

I got nothing. I almost never drink vodka.

Can't they revoke your citizenship for saying something like that? Off to the Gulag traitor!

206 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:22:12am

re: #205 RogueOne

Can't they revoke your citizenship for saying something like that? Off to the Gulag traitor!

From your fervor seems like you're ready to be a commissar! /

207 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:23:35am

Vodkaa is so... mundane. Clinical.

I like color in my liquors.

209 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:24:02am

re: #206 Sergey Romanov

From your fervor seems like you're ready to be a commissar! /

I keep a steady supply in the house. I was grocery shopping with the spouse last night and asked how much I had left as I was putting a bottle in the cart. My wife seems to think I have a years supply but I figure you can't be too careful, especially around the holidays.

210 Amory Blaine  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:24:16am

The first Russian friend I had I must have been about 20. Russian Greg was his nick (so original). I took a real shine to the guy. The first time I met him, he walks into this house and asks for something like $18.45 worth of weed. I nearly pissed myself I laughed so hard.

211 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:25:33am

re: #207 BigPapa

Vodkaa is so... mundane. Clinical.

I like color in my liquors.

I prefer Hoegaarden. :P

212 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:25:44am

re: #207 BigPapa

Vodkaa is so... mundane. Clinical.

I llike color in my liquors.

Add a slice of lemon

Problem solved!

213 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:26:10am

re: #192 RogueOne

It's not "morning" everywhere. You need to be more precise in your greetings.//

Well, my morning brain doesn't work that well.

214 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:27:04am

re: #209 RogueOne

I keep a steady supply in the house. I was grocery shopping with the spouse last night and asked how much I had left as I was putting a bottle in the cart. My wife seems to think I have a years supply but I figure you can't be too careful, especially around the holidays.

You're ready for taiga.

215 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:28:04am

No cream, almost out of milk and I'm only on my 2nd cuppa.

Hope the kid wakes up soon so I can send him out in the snow for more cow juice.

216 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:29:08am

re: #215 ggt

No cream, almost out of milk and I'm only on my 2nd cuppa.

Hope the kid wakes up soon so I can send him out in the snow for more cow juice.

see 202
:(

have him get me a gallon while he's there!!!

217 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:29:35am

re: #212 sattv4u2

Add a slice of lemon

Problem solved!

No!

Moskau, Moskau. Wodka trinkt man pur und kalt, das macht hundert Jahre alt, oh, oh, oh, hey!

218 Amory Blaine  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:29:44am

I wonder how much melamine would make a suitable substitute.

219 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:31:10am

re: #217 Sergey Romanov

No!

Moskau, Moskau. Wodka trinkt man pur und kalt, das macht hundert Jahre alt, oh, oh, oh, hey!

[Video]

Sorry, but didn't you understand when I said I didn't have my cereal? No need to open the box, so I didn't get my Free Decoder Ring!!!

//

220 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:31:54am

re: #217 Sergey Romanov

Was ist das?!?!

221 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:32:15am

Brat Puppy thinks the snow is sooool kewl he has now asked to go out 4 times (in the last hour).

222 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:32:32am

re: #220 Varek Raith

Was ist das?!?!

dat?

223 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:32:59am

re: #219 sattv4u2

Sorry, but didn't you understand when I said I didn't have my cereal? No need to open the box, so I didn't get my Free Decoder Ring!!!

//

"Drink vodka pure and cold and you'll live to be 100 years old."

224 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:33:03am

Kids these days:

225 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:33:22am

re: #223 Sergey Romanov

"Drink vodka pure and cold and you'll live to be 100 years old."

I plan on living forever

So far, so good!

226 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:35:32am

re: #225 sattv4u2

I plan on living forever

So far, so good!

Oh Gravel, WHY?

227 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:36:15am

re: #226 ggt

Oh Gravel, WHY?

To laugh as the universe collapses.

After then it will be boring tho.

228 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:36:43am

re: #227 Sergey Romanov

To laugh as the universe collapses.

After then it will be boring tho.

I'll make sure I have a magazine!

229 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:36:46am

re: #225 sattv4u2

I plan on living forever

So far, so good!

Step one - Transfer your soul to a phylactery.
Step two - Open a sub-dimensional pocket.
Step three - Store said phylactery in sub-dimensional pocket for safe keeping.
Step four - Immortality.
Simple.

230 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:37:02am

re: #227 Sergey Romanov

To laugh as the universe collapses.

After then it will be boring tho.

eh, you'll be sitting at a window table sipping a glass of vodka in the Restaurant at the End of the Universe.

231 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:37:12am

re: #228 sattv4u2

I'll make sure I have a magazine!

Make sure it's fire-proof! //

232 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:37:44am

re: #229 Varek Raith

Step one - Transfer your soul to a phylactery.
Step two - Open a sub-dimensional pocket.
Step three - Store said phylactery in sub-dimensional pocket for safe keeping.
Step four - Immortality.
Simple.

Those phylacteries are damned expensive tho.

233 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:37:52am

re: #229 Varek Raith

Step one - Transfer your soul to a phylactery.
Step two - Open a sub-dimensional pocket.
Step three - Store said phylactery in sub-dimensional pocket for safe keeping.
Step four - Immortality.
Simple.

Then what?

234 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:38:37am

re: #233 Sergey Romanov

Then what?

You're officially a Lich..

235 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:39:09am

re: #233 Sergey Romanov

Then what?

Put your left foot is, take your left foot out,,,,

236 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:40:07am

re: #234 Varek Raith

You're officially a Lich..

If you're not free to die, are you free?

237 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:41:13am
238 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:41:27am

re: #236 Sergey Romanov

If you're not free to die, are you free?

In that case, you just destroy the object you anchored your soul to.

239 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:41:32am

re: #235 sattv4u2

240 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:42:00am

re: #238 Varek Raith

In that case, you just destroy the object you anchored your soul to.

Sure, and if you've lost it (or forgot the password).

241 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:42:32am

re: #240 Sergey Romanov

Sure, and if you've lost it (or forgot the password).

Well... hope some adventuring goody good finds it?
:P

242 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:43:01am

re: #241 Varek Raith

Well... hope some adventuring goody good finds it?
:P

Yeah, but then she will destroy you.

243 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:44:35am

I don't know if they make fire-proof tefillins?

244 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:45:26am

re: #243 ggt

I don't know if they make fire-proof tefillins?

How did we get here from there?
/

245 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:46:09am

re: #244 Sergey Romanov

How did we get here from there?
/

You talked about phylacteries-no?

You'd want them fire-proof if they are anchored to your soul-no?

246 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:47:01am

re: #245 ggt

You talked about phylacteries-no?

You'd want them fire-proof if they are anchored to your soul-no?

I didn't. :P

247 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:47:09am

going to the door, with leash for the 5th time.

248 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:48:07am

re: #245 ggt

BTW, is it normative in English to use "tefillins" in plural (as "tefillin" is already plural)?

249 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:48:47am

re: #246 Sergey Romanov

I didn't. :P

Well, anyway, we got from there to here one step-at-a-time.

250 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:48:50am

re: #248 Sergey Romanov

BTW, is it normative in English to use "tefillins" in plural (as "tefillin" is already plural)?

Yes(s)

251 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:48:58am

re: #248 Sergey Romanov

BTW, is it normative in English to use "tefillins" in plural (as "tefillin" is already plural)?

No clue, I'm not Jewish. I just winging it.

252 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:50:46am

re: #250 sattv4u2

Yes(s)

Don't be as(s)! //

253 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:51:12am

re: #248 Sergey Romanov

BTW, is it normative in English to use "tefillins" in plural (as "tefillin" is already plural)?

When I moved from Boston to Atlanta, I had to get used to the dialect here

Someone would ask me if "ya'all" was going to do something

So I asked whats the plural of "ya'all"

Answer ,,, "All ya'all"

254 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:51:33am

My(y)(y)(y) precious(s)(s)(s)(s)(s)

255 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:51:51am

CAJUN ALERT!!!

256 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:52:03am

re: #253 sattv4u2

When I moved from Boston to Atlanta, I had to get used to the dialect here

Someone would ask me if "ya'all" was going to do something

So I asked whats the plural of "ya'all"

Answer ,,, "All ya'all"

Yeah, that makes sense.

257 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:52:36am

re: #256 ggt

Yeah, that makes sense.

THAT WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT!

Srsly.

258 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:52:47am

I had a latin teacher who used "you-all" for 2nd person plural.

259 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:53:41am

re: #257 Sergey Romanov

THAT WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT!

Srsly.

SRSLY?

260 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:54:33am

re: #253 sattv4u2

When I moved from Boston to Atlanta, I had to get used to the dialect here

Someone would ask me if "ya'all" was going to do something

So I asked whats the plural of "ya'all"

Answer ,,, "All ya'all"

ha!
"YOU" is the singular.
"Y'all" always refers to more than one person. Usually you and your family or one or more of group you're with or whatever. "Are y'all going to the cafeteria for lunch?" = are you and/or any of the folks you're with going to the cafeteria for lunch?

"All 'a y'all" means no options - "All 'a y'all follow me into the next room, now!".

261 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:54:54am

re: #257 Sergey Romanov

THAT WAS MY FIRST THOUGHT!

Srsly.(s)

262 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:55:24am

re: #260 reine.de.tout

ha!
"YOU" is the singular.
"Y'all" always refers to more than one person. Usually you and your family or one or more of group you're with or whatever. "Are y'all going to the cafeteria for lunch?" = are you and/or any of the folks you're with going to the cafeteria for lunch?

"All 'a y'all" means no options - "All 'a y'all follow me into the next room, now!".

How is Sam?

263 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:55:45am

"Are y'all doin' OK these days?" = Are you and your family doing well?

264 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:56:28am

re: #263 reine.de.tout

"Are y'all doin' OK these days?" = Are you and your family doing well?

"Y'all OK?"

more likely.

Perhaps:

"Howdy, y'all OK?"

265 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:56:39am

re: #260 reine.de.tout

"Y'all" always refers to more than one person
Not here always

i'd be standing by myself and one of the engineers would ask me "are ya'll going to install and test that equipment today"

I'd look over both shoulders to see if anyone else was standing with me ,,, NOPE!

266 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:57:16am

re: #265 sattv4u2

"Y'all" always refers to more than one person
Not here always

i'd be standing by myself and one of the engineers would ask me "are ya'll going to install and test that equipment today"

I'd look over both shoulders to see if anyone else was standing with me ,,, NOPE!

They know yous well!

267 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:57:40am

re: #262 ggt

How is Sam?

Sam has NOT yet eaten the couch. Although he did eat my daughter's roommate's leather recliner a couple of months back - he's now learned he should NOT mess with the furniture.

Otherwise, he's doing well. My daughter thinks he's something like one of these black mouth curs.

268 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:57:51am

re: #266 ggt

They know yous well!

Thats what the engineer from New Joisey said

269 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:58:00am

re: #265 sattv4u2

"Y'all" always refers to more than one person
Not here always

i'd be standing by myself and one of the engineers would ask me "are ya'll going to install and test that equipment today"

I'd look over both shoulders to see if anyone else was standing with me ,,, NOPE!

(Pssst. He knows about the voices!)

///
//

270 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:58:35am

re: #267 reine.de.tout

Sam has NOT yet eaten the couch. Although he did eat my daughter's roommate's leather recliner a couple of months back - he's now learned he should NOT mess with the furniture.

Otherwise, he's doing well. My daughter thinks he's something like one of these black mouth curs.

awwwwww!

He needs bones from the butcher's shop!

271 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:58:48am

re: #265 sattv4u2

"Y'all" always refers to more than one person
Not here always

i'd be standing by myself and one of the engineers would ask me "are ya'll going to install and test that equipment today"

I'd look over both shoulders to see if anyone else was standing with me ,,, NOPE!

What he means is, are you and/or somebody in your work group or one of the other guys who does the same job you do going to install and test the equipment. He really is NOT asking if YOU personally are going to do it - just if SOMEBODY is going to do it. Seriously.

272 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:59:06am

Saw a nine year old girl last night wearing, in my opinion, the greatest t-shirt for a 9 year old (or ninety year old) girl to wear.

It was printed with this simple lovely phrase.

"LOVE WHO YOU ARE".

I thought it was fantastic.

Busy day, can't hang out.

(Does my Karma make me look fat?)

273 Holidays are Family Fun Time  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 5:59:51am

I'm going to finish my night's sleep.

Hopefully exchange my morning brain for an afternoon brain.

Have a good one yous!

274 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:00:13am

re: #272 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

(Does my Karma make me look fat?)

Not at all,,, but the muffin top does

BUY BIGGER PANTS!

275 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:01:16am

re: #264 ggt

"Y'all OK?"

more likely.

Perhaps:

"Howdy, y'all OK?"

You're right.
I was trying to be all proper and all

276 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:01:46am

Apropos of nothing,,, but I wish I had Rick Steves job

277 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:02:27am

re: #276 sattv4u2

Apropos of nothing,,, but I wish I had Rick Steves job

Who is Rick Steves?

278 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:02:34am

re: #255 sattv4u2

CAJUN ALERT!!!

After my favorite seafood/cajun restaurant in Indy closed a couple years ago I've been looking for a replacement. In the last couple of months I've found 2, I'm supposed to check one of them out today. It's a 70 minute drive but I've heard it's worth it. Plus, it was on "Diners, Dives, and Drive-thru's"


279 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:02:54am

re: #274 sattv4u2

(Does my Karma make me look fat?)

Not at all,,, but the muffin top does

BUY BIGGER PANTS!

Image: 6259f4d4-9cb8-4514-bd93-c2c2d9804224.jpg

280 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:03:51am

re: #277 reine.de.tout

Who is Rick Steves?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

His books and media deal with travel mainly in Europe, and are directed at an American audience. As host, writer, and producer of the popular and long running Oregon Public Broadcasting television series Rick Steves' Europe, and through his travel books, he encourages Americans to become what he calls "temporary locals." He encourages his readers and viewers to discover not only major cities, but also cozy villages away from popular tourist routes.

281 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:04:28am

re: #278 RogueOne

After my favorite seafood/cajun restaurant in Indy closed a couple years ago I've been looking for a replacement. In the last couple of months I've found 2, I'm supposed to check one of them out today. It's a 70 minute drive but I've heard it's worth it. Plus, it was on "Diners, Dives, and Drive-thru's"

[Video]

I expect a full report (as well as a doggy bag if it's any good)

282 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:04:43am

re: #280 sattv4u2

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

His books and media deal with travel mainly in Europe, and are directed at an American audience. As host, writer, and producer of the popular and long running Oregon Public Broadcasting television series Rick Steves' Europe, and through his travel books, he encourages Americans to become what he calls "temporary locals." He encourages his readers and viewers to discover not only major cities, but also cozy villages away from popular tourist routes.

oooh. That would be a great job.

283 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:05:57am

Has anybody already read King's latest novel?

284 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:06:09am

re: #282 reine.de.tout

oooh. That would be a great job.

His show runs all the time on HD/ Net,, but you can probably also find it on your local PBS channel(s)

285 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:06:30am

re: #278 RogueOne

After my favorite seafood/cajun restaurant in Indy closed a couple years ago I've been looking for a replacement. In the last couple of months I've found 2, I'm supposed to check one of them out today. It's a 70 minute drive but I've heard it's worth it. Plus, it was on "Diners, Dives, and Drive-thru's"

[Video]

That Cajun food looks like it's the real deal!

286 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:07:33am

re: #285 reine.de.tout

That Cajun food looks like it's the real deal!

Do you Gah-un-tee that??

287 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:08:15am

re: #286 sattv4u2

Do you Gah-un-tee that??

He's got TASSO!
yeah, it looks good.

288 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:10:48am

re: #287 reine.de.tout

He's got TASSO!
yeah, it looks good.

DON'T TASSO ME, BRO

289 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:12:09am

Remember the layaway payoffs at K-Mart earlier in the week? It's spreading:

Layaway 'angels' help shoppers rescue kids' holiday presents
[Link: www.oregonlive.com...]

The Salem father missed his first payment and said he wasn't sure he'd have all the money in time for Christmas.

But on Friday, someone beat him to it.

Schaecher, 32, got a call from the Salem Kmart that a stranger had paid off all but a penny of his layaway bill.

"It makes me feel awesome, I'm at a loss for words," said Shaecher, who'd heard about anonymous layaway "angels" on the radio as he drove to work Friday morning. "I'm heading home now to wrap it all up."

There have been other reports across the country of similar Secret Layaway Santas. Kmart, likely most famous for its long-held layaway program, says the giving practice has been going on for a while. The retailer says a store in Michigan was the first of this holiday season, but others have popped up in Oregon, Washington and numerous other states.

290 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:14:01am

re: #276 sattv4u2

Apropos of nothing,,, but I wish I had Rick Steves job

I really like Anthony Bourdain and his show. He goes to a lot of really out of the way places that could be a lot of fun.

291 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:14:10am

re: #289 RogueOne

Heh, awesome. (Had to look up "layaway").

> at K-Mart earlier in the week

Linky?

292 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:14:26am

re: #289 RogueOne

[Link: www.freep.com...]

293 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:15:01am

re: #291 Sergey Romanov

292

294 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:15:28am

re: #285 reine.de.tout

That Cajun food looks like it's the real deal!

Which is weird since Mooresville is surrounded by corn fields. Should be fun. My wife is going shopping around Indy with the women folk today so the guys are going to eat.

295 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:16:35am

re: #293 sattv4u2

Thankee-sai!

296 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:18:03am

re: #291 Sergey Romanov

Heh, awesome. (Had to look up "layaway").

> at K-Mart earlier in the week

Linky?

I was grocery shopping at WalMart last night and the layaway line was about 100 people deep.

297 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:19:04am

re: #296 RogueOne

I was grocery shopping at WalMart last night and the layaway line was about 100 people deep.

o_o
Do they spend hours there?

298 Flounder  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:20:54am

re: #225 sattv4u2
Of best laid plans of mice and men...
Just an observation, turkey bacon is not bacon.

299 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:23:34am

re: #292 sattv4u2

[Link: www.freep.com...]

Indianapolis people are ultra-friendly. I have a couple friends who are volunteers for the Super Bowl festivities. All they're going to be doing is wandering around welcoming people to Indianapolis, "HI! Welcome to Indy!". I told him he needed to do it like the costco greeter in Idiocracy:

300 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:24:14am

re: #297 Sergey Romanov

o_o
Do they spend hours there?

It looked like it.

301 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:25:25am

re: #299 RogueOne

Indianapolis people are ultra-friendly. I have a couple friends who are volunteers for the Super Bowl festivities. All they're going to be doing is wandering around welcoming people to Indianapolis, "HI! Welcome to Indy!". I told him he needed to do it like the costco greeter in Idiocracy:

[Video]

302 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:26:11am

re: #299 RogueOne

"HI! Welcome to Indy!"

If I heard that more than three times, it would start to get annoying!

303 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:27:33am

6 days more and I have 3+ weeks off! Yay!

304 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:28:28am

re: #303 Sergey Romanov

6 days more and I have 3+ weeks off! Yay!

5 more years and I have the rest of my life off

Yay!!!

305 Flounder  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:29:47am

People who use Neti Pots should beware of the brain eating amoeba:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
We are on a well and my wife likes to use hers, should I tell her?!

306 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:32:27am

re: #305 Shropshire_Slasher

People who use Neti Pots should beware of the brain eating amoeba:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
We are on a well and my wife likes to use hers, should I tell her?!

Wifey uses one too
They just closed open enrollment for our work benefits, so it's too late to up her life insurance, so I may as well tell her!!!

////TOTALLY!!!!

307 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:33:14am

re: #301 sattv4u2

Dick Cheney: WalMart greeter

308 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:34:00am

re: #305 Shropshire_Slasher

People who use Neti Pots should beware of the brain eating amoeba:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
We are on a well and my wife likes to use hers, should I tell her?!

> use distilled, sterile or previously boiled water to make up the irrigation solution.

Uh, duh?

309 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:35:42am

re: #304 sattv4u2

5 more years and I have the rest of my life off

Yay!!!

Sooo, it's the first day of the rest of the first part of your life?

310 RogueOne  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:37:15am

Hitting the gym early. If I'm not back, enjoy your saturday people!

311 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:38:03am

re: #310 RogueOne

Hitting the gym early.

That's gym abuse right there!//

G'luck.

312 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:38:14am

re: #310 RogueOne

Hitting the gym early. If I'm not back, enjoy your saturday people!

tragic gym accident??

313 Flounder  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:39:23am

The President looks great considering he just ran from the camera after setting the timer. Man how kids grow, reminds me of JFK and pics of his kids when he was in office. [Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

314 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:39:32am

re: #309 Sergey Romanov

Sooo, it's the first day of the rest of the first part of your life?

2nd part

Everything before I started working,,,, 1st
Everything since I started working ,,,, 2nd
Everything after I stop working ,,,,,,,,,,3rd

315 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:40:40am

re: #313 Shropshire_Slasher

Gotta love Bo's paw imprint.

316 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:41:32am

re: #314 sattv4u2

2nd part

Everything before I started working,,, 1st
Everything since I started working ,,, 2nd
Everything after I stop working ,,,3rd

Well, if you're anything like Newt Gingrich, you've obviously worked since you were 3 months old!

317 Flounder  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:43:15am

re: #315 Sergey Romanov

That is cute I missed it, unfortunately I scrolled to the comments, don't endorse that, sorry all!

318 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:45:04am

re: #316 Sergey Romanov

Well, if you're anything like Newt Gingrich, you've obviously worked since you were 3 months!

Not quite that young,,, but I did have jobs in my (very) early teens (over and above the typical snow shoveling/ leaf raking/ etc "jobs" even younger than that)

319 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:48:58am

Big Asteroid to Cross Earth-Moon Orbit Tuesday

An asteroid the size of an aircraft carrier is to soar past the Earth this week and, while NASA is certain that the space rock will not hit us, it will be our closest encounter with such a large chunk of rock in three decades.

The 400-yard-wide asteroid is called 2005 YU55 and at the point of closest approach it will graze our planet at 201,700 miles — about 10 percent closer to Earth than the Moon’s typical orbit.

320 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:48:59am

Good Morning Lizards!

Sunny morning in Philadelphia. Steeling myself with a cup of tea (laced with iron? yes it is!) before setting forth to a mall to finish Christmas shopping. Though it is also a location of a monthly board game meeting as well. So I get to mix business and pleasure.

My niece wanted origami paper for Christmas. I found some yesterday in a good stationary store here in Center City. Not cheap, but since I am the doting uncle I am allowed to spend extra to spoil her.

321 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:51:00am

re: #316 Sergey Romanov

Well, if you're anything like Newt Gingrich, you've obviously worked since you were 3 months old!

Why, I've even heard conservatives exit the womb hard-working, independent-thinking entrepreneurial individualists! /

Unlike those inner city kids, who don't have any role models for what real hard work is all about! //

322 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:53:10am

re: #317 Shropshire_Slasher

That is cute I missed it, unfortunately I scrolled to the comments, don't endorse that, sorry all!

I simply make it a point to avoid comments at other sites.

323 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:53:13am

re: #321 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Why, I've even heard conservatives exit the womb hard-working, independent-thinking entrepreneurial individualists! /

Unlike those inner city kids, who don't have any role models for what real hard work is all about! //

Well, you do know what role models the confederates want them to adopt.
/

324 sattv4u2  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:53:51am

And on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons!

And when I get there, I get to install my Christmas present ,,,, our new energy efficient front door!!!

Oh ,, Joy !!

325 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:53:59am

Well - this "confederate" is outta here.
Hope all a' y'all have a great day!

326 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:54:30am

Morning Honcos. Wifi is down at the lieberrie and not sure how long I have this dinosaur to work on.:)

327 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:58:03am

Before I left yesterday, I said this...
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Today, I report this...
[Link: www.bradenton.com...]
WOOT!!!

328 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 6:58:13am

re: #285 reine.de.tout

That Cajun food looks like it's the real deal!

Nobody shows us how to cook cajun food like Justin Wilson!

329 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:07:20am

re: #319 BigPapa

Big Asteroid to Cross Earth-Moon Orbit Tuesday

First Movie of Asteroid 2005 YU55

330 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:09:59am

Classic.

331 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:24:38am

After months careful analysis, scientists have come to the conclusion that there is more of a chance of finding intelligent life on 2005 YU55 than in the halls of Congress.

332 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:27:28am

re: #331 NJDhockeyfan

After months careful analysis, scientists have come to the conclusion that there is more of a chance of finding intelligent life on 2005 YU55 than in the halls of Congress.

Maybe, but would an asteroid give us the thrill of the threat of a gubment shut down every year and fix everything just before it happens? I am sure they are congratulating themselves right about now.

333 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:28:14am

re: #331 NJDhockeyfan

After months careful analysis, scientists have come to the conclusion that there is more of a chance of finding intelligent life on 2005 YU55 than in the halls of Congress.

Sorry, if the scientists say it, I doubt it.

334 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:29:32am

re: #315 Sergey Romanov

Gotta love Bo's paw imprint.

I got my Xmas card from Michelle yesterday...put it on the mantle above the fireplace.

335 Lidane  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:30:16am

BREAKING: Senate OKs short-term extension of payroll tax cut

The Senate has approved a two-month extension of a cut to the Social Security payroll tax and jobless benefits for the long-term unemployed.

It's a partial victory for President Barack Obama's year-end jobs agenda.
Democratic and GOP leaders went with just a short extension after failing to agree on big enough spending cuts to pay for a full-year renewal of the payroll tax cut.
.

336 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:31:29am

re: #334 darthstar

A printed card, or with a real sig?

337 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:32:00am
338 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:33:52am

re: #335 Lidane

BREAKING: Senate OKs short-term extension of payroll tax cut

Eight weeks. Great long term vision Boehner, you asshole. Didn't you just release a 2012 schedule that has you working no more than two weeks per month next year? This is going to fuck up your fundraising trips.

339 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:35:36am

re: #336 Sergey Romanov

A printed card, or with a real sig?

Printed. It also had a fundraising flier in it, but I ignored that part. I was just glad that she remembered me.

340 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:36:20am

re: #338 darthstar

Eight weeks. Great long term vision Boehner, you asshole. Didn't you just release a 2012 schedule that has you working no more than two weeks per month next year? This is going to fuck up your fundraising trips.

I thought the headline said the Senate passed it.

342 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:38:52am

re: #341 NJDhockeyfan

Ron Paul Spelled Backwards: "Luap Nor" (Arabic For Nuke Israel)

I thought it was American for "crazy uncle"?

343 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:39:48am

Hey Darth, what's the reaction there to the Barry Bonds sentence?

344 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:40:50am

re: #340 Cannadian Club Akbar

I thought the headline said the Senate passed it.

They passed what the House gave them. The House writes it. If the Senate wrote it, there'd be no oil pipeline ransom note attached (if Obama doesn't approve the oil pipeline in two months, the poor people get it!), and then Boehner would cry that they're not following the rules and letting the House write the bill.

345 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:41:27am

re: #343 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hey Darth, what's the reaction there to the Barry Bonds sentence?

Barry Bonds spoke an entire sentence? When?

346 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:42:46am

re: #323 oaktree

Well, you do know what role models the confederates want them to adopt.
/

I've heard something about that, yes. lol

347 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:43:04am

re: #345 darthstar

Barry Bonds spoke an entire sentence? When?

Some writers asked why he could hit the ball so far and still throw like a girl and he responded with "leave me alone".

348 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:43:26am

re: #325 reine.de.tout

this "confederate" is outta here.

e_e

Your words, no one else's.

349 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:44:32am

re: #345 darthstar

Barry Bonds spoke an entire sentence? When?

Holy crap! 30 days of home detention? He's going to be unbeatable at Angry Birds after thirty days.

350 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:44:46am

intrigue in the house of khamenei ...

[Link: caspianintelligence.blogspot.com...]

when they start eating their own, that could be seen as a good sign.

351 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:45:20am

re: #349 darthstar

Holy crap! 30 days of home detention? He's going to be unbeatable at Angry Birds after thirty days.

Actually, no detention yet. He's free while he appeals.

352 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:47:34am

re: #350 _RememberTonyC

intrigue in the house of khamenei ...

[Link: caspianintelligence.blogspot.com...]

when they start eating their own, that could be seen as a good sign.

Interesting blog. Thx for the link.

353 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:49:24am

re: #351 Cannadian Club Akbar

Actually, no detention yet. He's free while he appeals.

Couldn't he get two hours of community service? Let the punishment fit the crime.

Seriously, he's done with baseball...this is all he has left...like the Jackson family, he'll soon be starving for attention. Just ask OJ.

354 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:50:39am

re: #350 _RememberTonyC

intrigue in the house of khamenei ...

[Link: caspianintelligence.blogspot.com...]

when they start eating their own, that could be seen as a good sign.

Agreed as to could. But could easily be the other way round. Remember Stalin's purges and how many innocents died during the elite clashes.

355 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:52:01am

re: #353 darthstar

Couldn't he get two hours of community service? Let the punishment fit the crime.

Seriously, he's done with baseball...this is all he has left...like the Jackson family, he'll soon be starving for attention. Just ask OJ.

I thought he did get community service. BUT, if he spends all day filming a PSA or something he can knock down hours easy. And he could grease the palm of the director/producer to give him more hours.

356 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:52:33am

Cockroaches are fleeing one of their nests...

Hamas flees from its Syrian headquarters

When a radical Islamic terrorist group evacuates an Arab country, that's a sign of a dangerous situation even the most bloodthirsty killers fear. According to sources in Israel, the Palestinian terrorist group Hamas began evacuating its Syrian external headquarters this week..

According to the Meir Amit Center, by Thursday most of the Hamas operatives had already left Syria. While hundreds of Hamas members were stationed in Damascus, their headquarters is now staffed by a only few dozen men.

"Evacuating Hamas' external headquarters from Damascus 13 years after it was moved there from Jordan, is, in our assessment, a watershed event in the history of the Hamas movement and liable to have repercussions in the internal Palestinian arena and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

"Initially, it is a result of the worsening situation of Bashar Assad's regime and regional fluctuations in general. In our assessment, the recent dramatic developments in Syria make it necessary for the Syrian-sponsored terrorist organizations, among them Hamas and Hezbollah, to reexamine their relations with Bashar Assad's regime after years of activity under a Syrian-Iranian aegis," officials at Meir Amit stated.

357 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:54:03am

re: #356 NJDhockeyfan

Cockroaches are fleeing one of their nests...

Hamas flees from its Syrian headquarters

HA!

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

358 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:55:44am

Hamas. Buncha pussies. While fleeing, are they hiding behind some women and children?

359 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 7:57:25am

re: #357 Sergey Romanov

One of those unintended consequences with possibly far-reaching results, I guess.

360 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:02:51am

re: #358 Cannadian Club Akbar

Hamas. Buncha pussies. While fleeing, are they hiding behind some women and children?

And placing other children into terror training schools.

361 BishopX  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:04:58am

re: #360 NJDhockeyfan

What is that link supposed to mean? It links to pictures of a burning tanker and an Obama speech. Neither children nor terror schools are apparent.

362 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:06:14am

re: #361 BishopX

What is that link supposed to mean? It links to pictures of a burning tanker and an Obama speech. Neither children nor terror schools are apparent.

I changed the link. I tried to link it to Picture #36 but it wont work.

363 Cannadian Club Akbar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:06:36am

re: #361 BishopX

What is that link supposed to mean? It links to pictures of a burning tanker and an Obama speech. Neither children nor terror schools are apparent.

Give it a minute. Same thing happened to me. It will show up.

364 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:10:06am

re: #360 NJDhockeyfan

And placing other children into terror training schools.

They look like American kids on Xmas morning.

367 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:12:37am

re: #364 darthstar

They look like American kids on Xmas morning.

Good thing the American kids don't get their education like these kids...

368 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:13:01am

re: #364 darthstar

They look like American kids on Xmas morning.

Except the writing on their bandanas is Arabic, which makes them cockroaches.

Of course, if it were in so-called Ebonics, they'd be subject to the same epithet from the usual suspects, so...

369 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:15:56am

re: #365 NJDhockeyfan

Well, whaddaya know. Joseph Goebbels wrote in early 1942 in his diary that 60% of Jews will be killed, while 40% will be made to work. (What happens when they can't work was not specified.) Some minds think alike.

370 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:16:37am

Hope all lizards have a good weekend. That was an interesting thread to read w/ regards to Summer's Google post that used Nazi imagery to object against what she perceived to be fascist tactics by Google.
At what point do freedom of speech and bigotry meet? Can they run parallel and not intersect?

371 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:17:49am

re: #370 prairiefire

> At what point do freedom of speech and bigotry meet

What do you mean? Expressions of bigotry are a subset of freedom of speech.

372 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:18:22am

re: #76 prononymous

Personally, I don't really like the conservative and liberal labels. It's like you can be defined as somewhere along a continuous spectrum.

I find the Jeffersonian labels more useful.

Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties: 1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes. 2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise depositary of the public interests. In every country these two parties exist, and in every one where they are free to think, speak, and write, they will declare themselves. Call them, therefore, Liberals and Serviles, Jacobins and Ultras, Whigs and Tories, Republicans and Federalists, Aristocrats and Democrats, or by whatever name you please, they are the same parties still and pursue the same object. The last one of Aristocrats and Democrats is the true one expressing the essence of all.

I also add a third category: Barbarians. Described by H. Beam Piper as 'those who don't understand civilization and wouldn't like it if they did.'

I consider the current GOP to be barbarians.

373 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:19:47am

re: #88 wlewisiii

I'd say "successful" but other than that, well, yeah. Top of that food chain and a 150 gr. .30-30 to provide dinner.

;)

There's only one dangerous animal, but most of the time you have to act as if he's as sweet and loving as a cobra. - Robert A. Heinlein

374 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:22:07am

re: #105 wlewisiii

Understood. I have simply always argued that I believe they are not soldiers, not combatants but criminals no different than mafiosa or columbian drug lords. As a result they should be treated the same.

WHY do they deserve to be treated like honorable soldiers when 99.99% of them will not act like soldiers? No, they are simply criminals to be dealt with, and disposed of, accordingly. To do otherwise grants them more respect than they deserve.

This. Plus saying we're at war with them ennobles their cause, gives it legitimacy. As criminals they won't have the aura that soldiers have.

375 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:28:57am

re: #371 Sergey Romanov

> At what point do freedom of speech and bigotry meet

What do you mean? Expressions of bigotry are a subset of freedom of speech.

Summer used a Nazi cartoon with anti-semitic imagery to make a point against what she perceived as fascist tactics by Google. Many lizards found the image offensive and ~seemed~ to make the connection that Summer was anti-semite to use the image in the first place.
It's a hurtful image, as are many others.
I don't think Summer is an anti-semite from what I have read of her posts over years.

376 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:32:35am

re: #375 prairiefire

and ~seemed~ to make the connection that Summer was anti-semite to use the image in the first place

Shame if so. Bad judgment doesn't necessarily make one an antisemite.

377 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:39:54am

re: #375 prairiefire

Summer used a Nazi cartoon with anti-semitic imagery to make a point against what she perceived as fascist tactics by Google. Many lizards found the image offensive and ~seemed~ to make the connection that Summer was anti-semite to use the image in the first place.
It's a hurtful image, as are many others.
I don't think Summer is an anti-semite from what I have read of her posts over years.

Of course she's not. I stayed out of that debate because I think my defense would have only increased the attacks on her. I strongly suspect that debate had more to do with other issues not related to the image or antisemitism. It was unnecessarily ugly and mean. That's all I have to say about that.

378 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:45:15am

When I was growing up, the derogatory imagery in the popular culture against women and minorities was constant.
I'm very glad that has all lessened. I also do not think there is a vault somewhere where every offensive image is stored and is static, frozen in time.
Images that might offend Muslims are offered quite often in American culture in recent times.

379 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:48:13am

re: #376 Sergey Romanov

Shame if so. Bad judgment doesn't necessarily make one an antisemite.

I looked at that thread now. I was actually participating in parallel to that discussion and simply scrolled it. I don't think Obdi was implying anything about Summer except her/his bad judgment.

380 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:49:24am

re: #377 Killgore Trout

I never clicked the image. Guess it riled people up? I skimmed the conversation, but didn't read it all because, like Prairie, after reading Summer all this time, I "feel" I know where she's coming from, and don't doubt her character at all.

Peace Summer!

381 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:50:14am

re: #380 Stanley Sea

I never clicked the image. Guess it riled people up? I skimmed the conversation, but didn't read it all because, like Prairie, after reading Summer all this time, I "feel" I know where she's coming from, and don't doubt her character at all.

Peace Summer!

And she is definitely a "she"! : )

382 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 8:53:39am

Oh, & good morning all!

383 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:01:47am

re: #382 Stanley Sea

Oh, & good morning all!

Good morning! My brother and sister in law are coming over this Friday and I need to do something about my hoarder filled house! Several trips to the donation center is needed, I think. Law, I can't have company at the moment! It's a busy time of the year.

384 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:05:04am

re: #378 prairiefire

When I was growing up, the derogatory imagery in the popular culture against women and minorities was constant.
I'm very glad that has all lessened. I also do not think there is a vault somewhere where every offensive image is stored and is static, frozen in time.
Images that might offend Muslims are offered quite often in American culture in recent times.

I see quite a lot of offensive stereotypes of the "classic bad guys" in your pop culture, like Arabs, Muslims and Russians.

385 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:05:32am

re: #384 Sergey Romanov

I see quite a lot of offensive stereotypes of the "classic bad guys" in your pop culture, like Arabs, Muslims and Russians.

Yep.

386 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:07:06am

re: #383 prairiefire

Good morning! My brother and sister in law are coming over this Friday and I need to do something about my hoarder filled house! Several trips to the donation center is needed, I think. Law, I can't have company at the moment! It's a busy time of the year.

Aw geeze, good luck! I used to look forward to company in a way, cause then I'd finally do the deep clean. Or hire someone to do it!

387 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:09:04am

re: #386 Stanley Sea

Aw geeze, good luck! I used to look forward to company in a way, cause then I'd finally do the deep clean. Or hire someone to do it!

Exactly! I will hire myself and pay myself with a new pair of shoes, or something. Maybe just a platter of peanut brittle and chocolate dipped pretzels.
((Stanley)) Happy Holidays!

388 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:09:05am

re: #384 Sergey Romanov

I see quite a lot of offensive stereotypes of the "classic bad guys" in your pop culture, like Arabs, Muslims and Russians.

You aren't all mobsters?

389 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:10:04am

re: #388 Stanley Sea

You aren't all mobsters?

:)

I take exception to this ad. It's cute.

390 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:10:21am

re: #384 Sergey Romanov

I see quite a lot of offensive stereotypes of the "classic bad guys" in your pop culture, like Arabs, Muslims and Russians.

Yes. Just look at how easy we accept Russians in the Nazi role in the latest Indiana Jones movie.

391 Stanghazi  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:10:42am

re: #387 prairiefire

Exactly! I will hire myself and pay myself with a new pair of shoes, or something. Maybe just a platter of peanut brittle and chocolate dipped pretzels.
((Stanley)) Happy Holidays!

Happy holidays to you too Prairie!

392 BishopX  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:12:10am

re: #390 wlewisiii


It' amazing what 90 years of cultural conditioning can do.

393 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:12:16am

"This is Peegyyy"

394 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:19:12am

re: #393 prairiefire

"This is Peegyyy"

(Said by a gruff, slavic sounding man)

395 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:21:23am

Yeah, I do recall a classmate who said he wasn't voting for Obama again because of "this" outrage.

396 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:22:30am

re: #375 prairiefire

Many lizards found the image offensive and ~seemed~ to make the connection that Summer was anti-semite to use the image in the first place

Yeah, that didn't happen, at all.

All I said was:

A) Comparing Google to the Nazis is silly.

B) Using an image that contains an offensive stereotype of a Jew when it's not critical to your argument is a bad decision.

We're all probably a bit jaded, but offensive images are still offensive. I don't like seeing stereotypical depictions of Jews. It really does make me react negatively. It's not going to stop happening, apparently, since I've seen tons of them by now and it still happens.

And then when the final point is that Google is being an asshole in ways that are not in the least, at all, comparable to what the Nazis did to Jews, it just leaves me baffled and annoyed.

397 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:23:48am

re: #394 prairiefire

(Said by a gruff, slavic sounding man)

I sometimes have a hard time distinguishing between the "German Nazi" and "Commie Russian" accents in the Hollywood flicks :P

398 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:27:40am

This one is good though.

399 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:32:54am

re: #397 Sergey Romanov

There's so many layers of annoying and offensive, too. There's subtle stuff like "Where are the Asians?"-- most TV shows have incredibly small numbers of Asian cast members, especially in proportion to their representation in the world. Aside from Dexter and Heroes, I can't think of a major TV show with an Asian in the main cast.

And the whole question of whether having an actor play a different 'race' is offensive, or enlightened. Chinese playing as Japanese and vice versa is always kind of darkly funny, given the traditional relationships between those ethnic groups.

400 Gepetto  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:40:50am

[Link: www.salon.com...]

plenty of sources dispute Mother Jones, including the ACLU, Al Franken, Bernie Sanders and Salon.com. the wording essentially changed from "mandatory" to "optional", introducing a selective element to an already shaky approval of the suspension of habeus corpus. Think of it this way: if this portion of the bill does not enhance, support or change existing procedures, why even put it in there?

401 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:41:28am

re: #289 RogueOne

Remember the layaway payoffs at K-Mart earlier in the week? It's spreading:

Layaway 'angels' help shoppers rescue kids' holiday presents
[Link: www.oregonlive.com...]

That is really a nice thing to do for the holidays.

(Making a note for next Christmas, when I am determined to have some more money.)

402 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:42:22am

re: #291 Sergey Romanov

Heh, awesome. (Had to look up "layaway").

> at K-Mart earlier in the week

Linky?

Grand old American tradition, the layaway. Especially at Christmas.

403 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:44:54am

re: #305 Shropshire_Slasher

People who use Neti Pots should beware of the brain eating amoeba:
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]
We are on a well and my wife likes to use hers, should I tell her?!

Can you just boil the water, or must it be distilled and crap?

When I had classroom fish that needed purified water I just got a gallon of distilled from the grocery store (cheap Safeway brand, the fish didn't seem to care). One of those should last her months.

404 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:45:17am

re: #399 Obdicut

In a generally stupid Russian comedy Shirli-Myrli there's a genial episode where three identical twins separated at birth meet. They're Jewish by birth, one was raised as a Jew, another as a Gypsy and a third as a Russian. All three are "nationalists" of their respective identities, so they engage in a comical debate on which ethnic groups are bad and which are good, with all the stereotypical arguments and insults.
In the end they find some common ground:

Russian brother: - All these "nationalities" are bullshit. It all depends on the person. Even among the Jews there are good people.
Jewish brother: - And Russians are not all drunks.
Gypsy brother: - Of course! Russians are good, Jews are great. Only Gypsies are all swindlers!
Russian brother: - Who gives a damn about... Wait, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm about the blacks. After all, they're not like us, white people. True, huh?
Jewish brother: - Well, no, of course I'm not a racist... But ... I don't let blacks get too close.
Gypsy brother: - Well, to be honest... there's some such feeling. Discomfort, I would say.
Toast: for the White Man!

(This episode skewering racism is marred by the fact of the blackface. However, it's not seen as offensive in Russian context.)

405 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:46:16am

re: #384 Sergey Romanov

I see quite a lot of offensive stereotypes of the "classic bad guys" in your pop culture, like Arabs, Muslims and Russians.

That seems to vary over time as well. If you watch old movies and read older novels you can see a gamut as the "flavor of the week" changes. In the 50s and 60s lots of stuff with the Russians and Chinese, or communism in general. With the drug culture stuff coming into the 80s you get South Americans (mainly Columbians) and also stuff like really vicious Jamaican drug gangs. With the Middle Eastern turmoil (and especially after the bombing in Beirut that killed a lot of US Marines) it went over to Arab terrorists and supporting regimes.

There is essentially a large popular market for action films and novels that are almost stereotypical in portraying larger-than-life heroes fighting whomever is the current "bad guy" attacking American (or Western) culture. The US doesn't need a propaganda ministry churning out media about our culture being superior and winning against all attackers, Hollywood does it on it's own since it's a way to make a buck.

Heck, simply look at a list of the films Golan-Globus produced with the Cannon Group in the 80s.

406 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:49:21am

re: #390 wlewisiii

Yes. Just look at how easy we accept Russians in the Nazi role in the latest Indiana Jones movie.

Gack. I finally saw that one recently (the last Indiana Jones film.) Criminal waste of Cate Blanchett in that role. (What, you didn't realize that was Cate Blanchett behind that thick accent and lousy role? Neither did I initially.)

407 Flounder  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:50:34am

re: #403 SanFranciscoZionist
Yeah it says you can boil it, obviously and let it cool lol.

408 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:52:01am

re: #375 prairiefire

Summer used a Nazi cartoon with anti-semitic imagery to make a point against what she perceived as fascist tactics by Google. Many lizards found the image offensive and ~seemed~ to make the connection that Summer was anti-semite to use the image in the first place.
It's a hurtful image, as are many others.
I don't think Summer is an anti-semite from what I have read of her posts over years.

It seemed excessively over the top to me, from what I understood of the dispute in question.

I did not actually think people thought that Summer was an anti-Semite, merely that she wasn't showing an educated understanding of the emotional baggage of using the material, and how it might affect others.

409 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:53:25am

re: #406 oaktree

Gack. I finally saw that one recently (the last Indiana Jones film.) Criminal waste of Cate Blanchett in that role. (What, you didn't realize that was Cate Blanchett behind that thick accent and lousy role? Neither did I initially.)

Not the best to be sure, but OTOH, I'd rather a bad pulpy Indiana Jones (or James Bond - love the newest 2) than 99% of the rest of Hollywood's production.

410 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:53:38am

re: #390 wlewisiii

Yes. Just look at how easy we accept Russians in the Nazi role in the latest Indiana Jones movie.

Fifties setting. They needed something topical, since the Nazis were done by then.

411 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:54:23am

re: #399 Obdicut

There's so many layers of annoying and offensive, too. There's subtle stuff like "Where are the Asians?"-- most TV shows have incredibly small numbers of Asian cast members, especially in proportion to their representation in the world. Aside from Dexter and Heroes, I can't think of a major TV show with an Asian in the main cast.

And the whole question of whether having an actor play a different 'race' is offensive, or enlightened. Chinese playing as Japanese and vice versa is always kind of darkly funny, given the traditional relationships between those ethnic groups.

The ideal is seeing presentations where a minority (or whomever) is used where it doesn't matter that they are a minority. And especially if it isn't played upon either. They're a person (well, a role) and the fact they're white/black/asian/Jewish whatever is of secondary importance. Though I presume cultural differences might be used as a plot device at some point - but that could be based on education, upbringing, experience, etc. as well.

412 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:56:03am

re: #399 Obdicut

There's so many layers of annoying and offensive, too. There's subtle stuff like "Where are the Asians?"-- most TV shows have incredibly small numbers of Asian cast members, especially in proportion to their representation in the world. Aside from Dexter and Heroes, I can't think of a major TV show with an Asian in the main cast.

And the whole question of whether having an actor play a different 'race' is offensive, or enlightened. Chinese playing as Japanese and vice versa is always kind of darkly funny, given the traditional relationships between those ethnic groups.

My favorite fail on that front was a short-lived medical show that was supposed to be set in a hospital in San Francisco. There were no Asians among the doctors. It was hilariously wrong.

413 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:57:59am

re: #409 wlewisiii

Not the best to be sure, but OTOH, I'd rather a bad pulpy Indiana Jones (or James Bond - love the newest 2) than 99% of the rest of Hollywood's production.

True. But you should also be able to hold Spielberg to a higher standard since you know he's capable of bringing a lot more to the table.

Part of what made the Star Wars Ep 1-3 bad was seeing Lucas squander Natalie Portman's talents as an actress. Though to a certain degree right now I view Lucas as a hack with a good visual talent who in a way got lucky.

414 prairiefire  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:58:50am

re: #396 Obdicut

The Nazis did ask people to inform on their neighbors.

415 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 9:59:32am

re: #412 SanFranciscoZionist

My favorite fail on that front was a short-lived medical show that was supposed to be set in a hospital in San Francisco. There were no Asians among the doctors. It was hilariously wrong.

Monk, which I otherwise really like, was pretty bad in that regards as well. Set in San Francisco, but almost zero Asians except in very trivial roles.

416 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:01:06am

re: #411 oaktree

The ideal is seeing presentations where a minority (or whomever) is used where it doesn't matter that they are a minority. And especially if it isn't played upon either. They're a person (well, a role) and the fact they're white/black/asian/Jewish whatever is of secondary importance. Though I presume cultural differences might be used as a plot device at some point - but that could be based on education, upbringing, experience, etc. as well.

To be fair, although there are general regional differences in facial features and such across East Asia, individuals vary an awful lot. One of my Chinese gfs is forever being mistaken for Japanese--sometimes by people who will speak Cantonese in front of here, assuming she can't understand them. In casting, it's believability that counts, not matching the character genetically.

417 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:01:46am

re: #414 prairiefire

The Nazis did ask people to inform on their neighbors.

And when they did, they killed the neighbors. I think that's the distinction people are having a hard time getting over.

418 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:01:55am

re: #414 prairiefire

The Nazis did ask people to inform on their neighbors.

Yes, they did. But the consequences were rather different, weren't they?

419 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:01:59am

re: #412 SanFranciscoZionist

My favorite fail on that front was a short-lived medical show that was supposed to be set in a hospital in San Francisco. There were no Asians among the doctors. It was hilariously wrong.

I think part of the issue had been a limit on talent in certain ethnic groups in Hollywood. It has been alleviated in recent years by an influx of said talent and also hiring and writing to use them. I've noticed the Japanese/Chinese thing in older movies (e.g. Mako in _The Sand Pebbles_) but it's also using what you have. You go back further in movies and there are a lot of cases where Orientals/American Indians etc. were constantly being played by whites in appropriate make-up, even in major roles.

420 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:02:21am

re: #415 Obdicut

Monk, which I otherwise really like, was pretty bad in that regards as well. Set in San Francisco, but almost zero Asians except in very trivial roles.

San Francisco in film and TV is, in general, a much whiter city than San Francisco in reality.

421 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:04:33am

re: #411 oaktree

The ideal is seeing presentations where a minority (or whomever) is used where it doesn't matter that they are a minority.

I do think that Dexter does that well, where the most important thing about the creepy tech dude isn't that he's Asian, but that he's creepy. There's nothing stereotypically Asian about him at all.

I also like Supertroopers, where the ethnicity of the lead is played for laughs because dumb bigots keep thinking he's Hispanic, but otherwise his race doesn't matter at all to anyone.

422 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:04:39am

re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist

To be fair, although there are general regional differences in facial features and such across East Asia, individuals vary an awful lot. One of my Chinese gfs is forever being mistaken for Japanese--sometimes by people who will speak Cantonese in front of here, assuming she can't understand them. In casting, it's believability that counts, not matching the character genetically.

Thus the wonderful career of Anthony Quinn.

423 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:05:30am

re: #413 oaktree

True. But you should also be able to hold Spielberg to a higher standard since you know he's capable of bringing a lot more to the table.

Part of what made the Star Wars Ep 1-3 bad was seeing Lucas squander Natalie Portman's talents as an actress. Though to a certain degree right now I view Lucas as a hack with a good visual talent who in a way got lucky.

Granted.

Star Wars... well, my son loves Attack of the Clones & Return of the Jedi best of the six, and loves the current Clone Wars toon (Lucas must be hands off on that though - it actually is well written and makes you care about Anakin as a character.)

His biggest lucky break was when he got the first draft of Empire from Leigh Brackett shortly before her death. It gave them a basis that allowed them to build the best movie of the bunch because she'd been writing great space opera her whole life. Without that, I'm not sure there would have been a third movie much less 4 more.

424 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:05:51am

re: #421 Obdicut

I do think that Dexter does that well, where the most important thing about the creepy tech dude isn't that he's Asian, but that he's creepy. There's nothing stereotypically Asian about him at all.

I also like Supertroopers, where the ethnicity of the lead is played for laughs because dumb bigots keep thinking he's Hispanic, but otherwise his race doesn't matter at all to anyone.

I love Masuka. He's just awful.

425 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:06:33am

re: #421 Obdicut

I do think that Dexter does that well, where the most important thing about the creepy tech dude isn't that he's Asian, but that he's creepy. There's nothing stereotypically Asian about him at all.

I also like Supertroopers, where the ethnicity of the lead is played for laughs because dumb bigots keep thinking he's Hispanic, but otherwise his race doesn't matter at all to anyone.

That was one of Heinlein's points in the novel. The culture there was a bit beyond a bunch of the US ethnic hang-ups at that time. (Let's please not diverge over into the governmental forms debate at this time.)

426 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:07:15am

re: #425 oaktree

That was one of Heinlein's points in the novel. The culture there was a bit beyond a bunch of the US ethnic hang-ups at that time. (Let's please not diverge over into the governmental forms debate at this time.)

No, Supertroopers.

Very different movie.

427 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:07:50am

re: #425 oaktree

That was one of Heinlein's points in the novel. The culture there was a bit beyond a bunch of the US ethnic hang-ups at that time. (Let's please not diverge over into the governmental forms debate at this time.)

Er, Supertroopers, not Starship Troopers.

428 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:10:53am

Damn, I'm in that weird part of YouTube again.

429 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:11:01am

re: #426 Obdicut

No, Supertroopers.

Very different movie.

Oops. My bad. :(

430 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:13:46am
431 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:13:48am

re: #423 wlewisiii

Granted.

Star Wars... well, my son loves Attack of the Clones & Return of the Jedi best of the six, and loves the current Clone Wars toon (Lucas must be hands off on that though - it actually is well written and makes you care about Anakin as a character.)

His biggest lucky break was when he got the first draft of Empire from Leigh Brackett shortly before her death. It gave them a basis that allowed them to build the best movie of the bunch because she'd been writing great space opera her whole life. Without that, I'm not sure there would have been a third movie much less 4 more.

Well, Empire cemented Darth Vader as a classic movie villain; something of a cosmic bad-ass (a bit overconfident however). Lucas then spent four movies doing a thorough character assassination.

432 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:15:57am

re: #428 Sergey Romanov

Damn, I'm in that weird part of YouTube again.

Just listened to a short lecture on the evidence that the Earth is ruled by aliens. The guy says, there are 400 tons of gold mined in Russia every year. So think about how much is mined throughout the world. How much was mined throughout history. Where is it? Of course. It's taken by hermaphrodite aliens called rakshasa's to their home plant. (And Jews are human-rakshasa hybrids.)

433 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:17:21am

re: #432 Sergey Romanov

I mean that's the only explanation of where all the gold is.

434 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:17:52am

re: #433 Sergey Romanov

I mean that's the only explanation of where all the gold is.

What do they do with it?

435 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:19:19am

re: #431 oaktree

Well, Empire cemented Darth Vader as a classic movie villain; something of a cosmic bad-ass (a bit overconfident however). Lucas then spent four movies doing a thorough character assassination.

I could live with that, I really could, if he'd just stop making the movies worse with all the "new & improved" versions. I want a copy of Star Wars as I had it on VHS back when it was first released not the current version.

436 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:19:44am

re: #434 oaktree

What do they do with it?

Epic cosmic bling.

437 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:19:56am

re: #434 oaktree

What do they do with it?

They thrive on sun energy and gold is an accumulator of sun energy. That's why every Jew must have a pot of gold at home, otherwise they lose their human form.

Don't blame me, that's what that neo-pagan guru said.

438 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:22:17am

Humanity is pretty hopeless.

439 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:22:45am

re: #435 wlewisiii

I could live with that, I really could, if he'd just stop making the movies worse with all the "new & improved" versions. I want a copy of Star Wars as I had it on VHS back when it was first released not the current version.

I have one of the VHS versions. :)

Yea, watching that and then watching the "improved" one with all the added in stuff is part of what made me think Lucas had lost it (if he ever had it.)

The original Mos Eisley with the open and mainly empty streets gave you the feel of an bad Old West town. Plus an economy of view had you concentrate on the characters. The "improved" version has stuff running all over the place like runaway screen savers. Including a short-range droid going across the bottom of the screen that completing ruins the framing of one distant shot. :P

440 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:24:15am

re: #437 Sergey Romanov

They thrive on sun energy and gold is an accumulator of sun energy. That's why every Jew must have a pot of gold at home, otherwise they lose their human form.

Don't blame me, that's what that neo-pagan guru said.

Wikipedia:
Gold has been a valuable and highly sought-after precious metal for coinage, jewelry, and other arts since long before the beginning of recorded history. Gold standards have been the most common basis for monetary policies throughout human history, being widely supplanted by fiat currency only in the late 20th century. Gold has also been frequently linked to a wide variety of symbolisms and ideologies.

A total of 165,000 tonnes of gold have been mined in human history, as of 2009.[1] This is roughly equivalent to 5.3 billion troy ounces or, in terms of volume, about 8500 m3, or a cube 20.4 m on a side.

The world consumption of new gold produced is about 50% in jewelry, 40% in investments, and 10% in industry.[2]

441 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:25:50am

re: #440 oaktree

YOU BELIEVE THE MSM?!?!?! SHEEPLE!!!1

/

442 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:27:46am

re: #441 Sergey Romanov

YOU BELIEVE THE MSM?!?!?! SHEEPLE!!!1

/

Oh. Are you to log onto Wikipedia and attempt to correct it?
;)

443 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:29:24am

re: #437 Sergey Romanov

They thrive on sun energy and gold is an accumulator of sun energy. That's why every Jew must have a pot of gold at home, otherwise they lose their human form.

Don't blame me, that's what that neo-pagan guru said.

I'm surprised a rant like that hasn't come out of Cartman's mouth on South Park yet.

444 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:30:54am

re: #443 oaktree

I'm surprised a rant like that hasn't come out of Cartman's mouth on South Park yet.

I wonder if this guy plagiarized the "pot of gold" thing from South Park :)

445 Atlas Fails  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:33:56am

Thanks to one of Thanos's links, I came across an awesome blog called The Thinking Housewife. I admit, I thought it was satire at first, but after some perusing, I'm pretty sure it's not. This particular post wins the internet, by the way.

446 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:36:43am

re: #445 Atlas Fails

Thanks to one of Thanos's links, I came across an awesome blog called The Thinking Housewife. I admit, I thought it was satire at first, but after some perusing, I'm pretty sure it's not. This particular post wins the internet, by the way.

I wonder what that blogger thinks about the correlation between piracy and global warming.
//

447 Atlas Fails  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:38:45am

re: #446 oaktree

I wonder what that blogger thinks about the correlation between piracy and global warming.
//

Depends. Are any of those pirates women wasting their fertile years? Also, I think "Laura" is actually a dude. A dude who has never heard of sports bras, apparently.

448 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:40:03am

re: #447 Atlas Fails

Depends. Are any of those pirates women wasting their fertile years? Also, I think "Laura" is actually a dude. A dude who has never heard of sports' bras, apparently.

I forwarded the link to a friend of mine who runs marathons. I'm curious where on the scale from laughing to rage she will land regarding it.

449 Feline Fearless Leader  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:43:05am

re: #444 Sergey Romanov

I wonder if this guy plagiarized the "pot of gold" thing from South Park :)

Should be pinning it on the Indians. Same wiki page says that Indian households buy about 800 tons of gold jewelry a year. (Collectively, not individually.)

450 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:44:49am

Orthodox excorcism:

451 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:46:41am

Oh, great.
You're all PaulBots now.
GOLD!
:P

452 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:47:45am

Jinn exorcism in Chechnya:

453 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:48:01am

re: #435 wlewisiii

I could live with that, I really could, if he'd just stop making the movies worse with all the "new & improved" versions. I want a copy of Star Wars as I had it on VHS back when it was first released not the current version.

It is said that one's "great work" is never finished, just "taken away". I don't think Lucas will really be able to stop tinkering as long as he is able to, for great works are only truly finished when their creator dies.

454 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:49:53am

re: #451 Varek Raith

Oh, great.
You're all PaulBots now.
GOLD!
:P

Well, Ron Paul did properly articulate why Congress should not be able to subpoena federal judges, after Newt floated that idea. It was a little shocking to hear Ron Paul being the sane one, but there it is.

455 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:52:45am

Image: 374846_331312660231527_205344452828349_1242234_1041369320_n.jpg

Gorgeous day on the coast, by the way...T-shirt and shorts weather. No wind, ran the dog through the waves for an hour and he was begging for more when we finally left.

Thinking 20 mile bike ride in a bit.

456 Atlas Fails  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:52:53am

re: #454 Dark_Falcon

Well, Ron Paul did properly articulate why Congress should not be able to subpoena federal judges, after Newt floated that idea. It was a little shocking to hear Ron Paul being the sane one, but there it is.

On O'Reilly last night, Ann Coulter (!!!) took the words right out of my mouth, saying it was the job of the courts to uphold the Constitution, not Newt's idea of "American Exceptionalism."

Ladies and gentlemen, the current GOP's voice of reason!

457 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 10:54:53am

re: #456 Atlas Fails

On O'Reilly last night, Ann Coulter (!!!) took the words right out of my mouth, saying it was the job of the courts to uphold the Constitution, not Newt's idea of "American Exceptionalism."

Ladies and gentlemen, the current GOP's voice of reason!

She's not, it's just that Ann Coulter and Ron Paul understand the basic structure of the Constitution. To allow Congress to subpoena federal judges would render the courts subservient to Congress, which the Founders did not want.

BBL

458 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:02:07am

re: #452 Sergey Romanov

Looks like those guys were doing a bang up job.

459 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:04:06am

On Fox, Gasparino Blames Environmentalists (!) For Severity Of BP Oil Spill

Like, what?
Idiots.
No, it was so far off shore because...
THAT'S WHERE THE FUCKING OIL IS!

Mah haid hurtz.

460 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:04:33am

re: #458 BigPapa

Looks like those guys were doing a bang up job.

Sure. The guy had a medical vest (or however it is called). That means they're serious, wise specialists.

461 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:06:44am

re: #459 Varek Raith

From the same camp as

People who cry racism are the real racists

Extra marks for consistency in their positions.

462 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:08:41am

Job Search Activities - Unemployed w/benefits vs. without.
The Republican argument that extending benefits will only make people less likely to look for work is full of as much shit as the rest of their jobs platform.

Article here: [Link: www.epi.org...]

463 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:10:11am

re: #422 oaktree

Thus the wonderful career of Anthony Quinn.

See also the career of Alfred Molina: Ambiguously Brown Character Actor.

re: #432 Sergey Romanov

Just listened to a short lecture on the evidence that the Earth is ruled by aliens. The guy says, there are 400 tons of gold mined in Russia every year. So think about how much is mined throughout the world. How much was mined throughout history. Where is it? Of course. It's taken by hermaphrodite aliens called rakshasa's to their home plant. (And Jews are human-rakshasa hybrids.)

The villains of the Ramayana were gold-hoarding Space Jews? That explains everything.

Hold on...no, it explains nothing.

464 freetoken  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:10:30am

re: #459 Varek Raith

Yes, as I tried in my last Page to stress, delusions abound about oil.

Today Lawrence Solomon jumps on that bandwagon, tying the idea of freeing those supposedly vast oil supplies in the West to helping Jews get off that nasty wind-solar-nuke bandwagon:

Why Jews like climate policy

[...]

As with the push for nuclear, the push for global-warming legislation has done nothing to protect Israel. The renewables industry is now crashing, as it was doomed to - like nuclear, wind and solar remain unaffordable. If anything, the Jewish drive to protect Israel by promoting nuclear and renewables was counterproductive, because it helped send society down the wrong road.

To make the West energy independent, the West needs only to develop its own fossil fuels. They are both bountiful and affordable, so much so that imports from hostile Middle East countries could be quickly eliminated. Jews in the West who care about Israel, and who want the foreign policies of their own governments to be formed free of fear of retribution from Middle East oil states, can best help their cause by working to remove senseless restrictions on homegrown energy development.

The whole thing is just so twisted and not based on reality.

465 jaunte  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:12:01am

re: #459 Varek Raith

On Fox, Gasparino Blames Environmentalists (!) For Severity Of BP Oil Spill

Don't confuse him with facts, he's on a roll.

466 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:12:12am

re: #463 The Ghost of a Flea

Something that explains everything always explains nothing.

467 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:12:58am

re: #466 Sergey Romanov

Something that explains everything always explains nothing.

Like arrows in knees.

468 HappyWarrior  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:13:57am

re: #459 Varek Raith

On Fox, Gasparino Blames Environmentalists (!) For Severity Of BP Oil Spill

Like, what?
Idiots.
No, it was so far off shore because...
THAT'S WHERE THE FUCKING OIL IS!

Mah haid hurtz.

Nothing is ever a corporation's fault. Silly liberal :D.

469 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:15:17am

re: #464 freetoken

Nice Page yesterday FT.

470 darthstar  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:15:25am
471 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:18:49am

re: #467 Varek Raith

Like arrows in knees.

Arrows in knees are natural part of the sorting algorithm of fantasy economies. If entrepreneurship means killing progressively larger critters and taking their stuff, then the basic work pool is going to filled with slightly-maimed ex adventurers who have a skill-set that makes them shoe-ins for law enforcement and security work.

472 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:19:54am

re: #459 Varek Raith

Also note from that clip

(Chinese) want to destroy us
Selling oil to China causes worse pollution than consuming it here

That would be a Trifecta.

473 jaunte  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:20:54am

re: #464 freetoken

"To make the West energy independent, the West needs only to develop its own fossil fuels."

I was wondering yesterday while reading some of the arguments about
Keystone, how much of an impact it would have. Some estimates show that the Keystone XL oil pipeline may bring another 830,000 barrels a day to U.S. refineries.
Not all of the refined product will be staying in the country.

In 2009 U.S. consumption was 18,690,000 barrels a day.

474 Kronocide  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:21:45am
475 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:25:47am

re: #473 jaunte

I was wondering yesterday while reading some of the arguments about
Keystone, how much of an impact it would have. Some estimates show that the Keystone XL oil pipeline may bring another 830,000 barrels a day to U.S. refineries.
Not all of the refined product will be staying in the country.

In 2009 U.S. consumption was 18,690,000 barrels a day.

What's the efficiency of bitumen refinement? I know it takes a lot of tar sand to make a barrel of oil, but how much energy goes into the process prior to refinement into fuel?

476 jaunte  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:30:59am

re: #475 The Ghost of a Flea

I can't find exact numbers on energy use, but I've seen rough estimates of a carbon footprint 2-3 times that of light/medium oil.

477 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:33:11am

re: #471 The Ghost of a Flea

Arrows in knees are natural part of the sorting algorithm of fantasy economies. If entrepreneurship means killing progressively larger critters and taking their stuff, then the basic work pool is going to filled with slightly-maimed ex adventurers who have a skill-set that makes them shoe-ins for law enforcement and security work.

Nobody said there would be math!

478 jaunte  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:38:14am

re: #475 The Ghost of a Flea

Fun tar sands fact:

Due to its stickiness, bitumen can’t move through a pipeline without being diluted with natural gas condensate or light oil. Canada now imports “diluent” from Russia and Indonesia, and transports these lighter hydrocarbons by train across the Rocky Mountains to tar sands in Fort McMurray.

479 jaunte  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:44:25am

Via Grist: The best sustainable Christmas tree ever:
[Link: www.mymodernmet.com...]

480 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:45:02am

re: #476 jaunte

I can't find exact numbers on energy use, but I've seen rough estimates of a carbon footprint 2-3 times that of light/medium oil.

Answering own question: from Wikipedia--

1.0-1.25 Gigajoule input per barrel bitumen, which outputs 6.117 Gigajoules.

Reading about the industrial waste issues all I can think is it sounds like fracking plus MTR mining in terms of the waste disposal and remediation issues.

481 freetoken  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:49:38am

re: #473 jaunte

I was wondering yesterday while reading some of the arguments about
Keystone, how much of an impact it would have. Some estimates show that the Keystone XL oil pipeline may bring another 830,000 barrels a day to U.S. refineries.
Not all of the refined product will be staying in the country.

In 2009 U.S. consumption was 18,690,000 barrels a day.

Careful. The word "oil" is multiply defined and the consumption figures almost never actually delineate between petroleum products and other liquids which run quite the gamut.

In the US the past couple of years, increased petroleum production by advanced drilling in North Dakota has just slightly outpaced natural depletion from Alaska and other lower 48 onshore production (of petroleum.)

Tar sand products can be many, and include products that are also made from petroleum.

So the important analysis would look at end products, what can be produced from which sources. Increases in tar sand products and natural gas liquids (which are the lighter hydrocarbons) can offset some of the petroleum production decline from various North American older fields. However, that is still a big jump from being abel to replace all the crude and products that are imported from elsewhere.

Additionally, none of this addresses the call to increase manufacturing in the US, which will require increased resources also. For example, Asia imports lots of middle east oil, which it then turns around into various made goods to be shipped to the US.

482 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:50:29am

Given the recent turn of events and the sudden support of Bradley Manning by Occupy Wall Street, I will no longer support the Occupy Wall Street movement.

483 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:51:20am

re: #482 Gus 802

Given the recent turn of events and the sudden support of Bradley Manning by Occupy Wall Street, I will no longer support the Occupy Wall Street movement.

Is the support general? (I would suspect so, but I stopped paying attention a long time ago.)

484 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:54:16am

re: #483 Sergey Romanov

Is the support general? (I would suspect so, but I stopped paying attention a long time ago.)

I don't know but that's what I'm seeing in my Twitter feed. Several events over the weekend "honoring" their "hero" Bradley Manning. This is amongst other things including the cognitively dissonant and sudden support of Ron Paul by many of the same. Or in their words "an alternative to voting for Obama" given their misconception of the NDAA legislation as mischaracterized by the infamous Glenn Greenwald. Basically that's all they seem to be focused on since the trial for that weasel Manning began.

485 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:55:21am

Seriously? Ron Paul? That man is no friend to the left nor liberalism. It's pathetic.

486 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:55:49am

re: #484 Gus 802

OK, so my fear that with time the extremists would take the movement over from the more mainstream folks (who themselves took it over from extremists like AdBusters) probably was correct.

487 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:57:59am

re: #485 Gus 802

Hi Gus! {Gus}

488 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:58:25am

re: #485 Gus 802

Glad you're back :P

489 BishopX  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:58:42am

re: #486 Sergey Romanov

More like once the encampments were cleared, only the committed activists stayed involved.

490 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 11:59:31am

re: #489 BishopX

More like once the encampments were cleared, only the committed activists stayed involved.

Yes, though back then I tied the possible takeover with the weather rather then the clearings.

491 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:00:22pm

re: #484 Gus 802

I don't know but that's what I'm seeing in my Twitter feed. Several events over the weekend "honoring" their "hero" Bradley Manning. This is amongst other things including the cognitively dissonant and sudden support of Ron Paul by many of the same. Or in their words "an alternative to voting for Obama" given their misconception of the NDAA legislation as mischaracterized by the infamous Glenn Greenwald. Basically that's all they seem to be focused on since the trial for that weasel Manning began.

The NYC Occupy general assembly passed a resolution of support yesterday for Manning with 100% consensus.

492 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:00:51pm

re: #486 Sergey Romanov

OK, so my fear that with time the extremists would take the movement over from the more mainstream folks (who themselves took it over from extremists like AdBusters) probably was correct.

It's getting worse. Lots of linking to Russia Today which was referencing Michel Chossudovsky. Some are bordering on "Illuminati" talk. The usual fringe/conspiracy talk. I can't say they all speak for OWS but that's what I'm increasingly seeing. Had to unfollow some folks because of this. Then reading the trash from John Cook of Gawker and Glenn Greenwald regarding Christopher Hitchens threw me over the edge this morning.

493 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:02:53pm

re: #492 Gus 802

I've noticed linking to Russia Today (and PressTV) from the folks with that "I don't trust MSM"/"marginal sources are better!" complex. The proportion of such folks has increased on the dissatisfied far left, so there you go. I noticed a good climate for Chavistas at DKos, for example.

494 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:03:15pm

re: #492 Gus 802

It's getting worse. Lots of linking to Russia Today which was referencing Michel Chossudovsky. Some are bordering on "Illuminati" talk. The usual fringe/conspiracy talk. I can't say they all speak for OWS but that's what I'm increasingly seeing. Had to unfollow some folks because of this. Then reading the trash from John Cook of Gawker and Glenn Greenwald regarding Christopher Hitchens threw me over the edge this morning.

Occupy activists are also doing interviews with Iranian Press TV in support of Manning today. Pretty disgusting.

495 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:06:00pm

Breitbart just published video on Normal Ficklestien speaking at Occupy Boston.

496 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:06:27pm

re: #495 Killgore Trout

Breitbart just published video on Normal Ficklestien speaking at Occupy Boston.

Wow!

What's the topic and the reaction?

497 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:08:16pm

re: #496 Sergey Romanov

Wow!

What's the topic and the reaction?

So far he's just talking about revolution and shit. It's a 30 minute long video, I don't know how much of it I'll make through. Sun is shining and there's dirt to be moved.

498 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:08:34pm

Testing. Connection problem here.re: #491 Killgore Trout

The NYC Occupy general assembly passed a resolution of support yesterday for Manning with 100% consensus.

Their loss. I'm done with them. Manning has nothing to do with economic injustice or any other similar topic. Manning wasn't acting out of ideology or morals. He leaked that information only as a personal vendetta he had with the US Army which he voluntarily joined. And he also put the lives of his fellow soldiers in danger during this cowardly act. He's no hero by any stretch of the imagination.

IMO

499 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:08:35pm

No need for Breitbart, here's from the horse's mouth.

[Link: www.normanfinkelstein.com...]

500 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:09:34pm

re: #498 Gus 802

I'll ask you this question, though, and don't think I'm just trying to split hairs. Are they, en masse, supporting what Manning did or are they protesting his alleged treatment?

501 Killgore Trout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:10:17pm

re: #499 Sergey Romanov

No need for Breitbart, here's from the horse's mouth.

[Link: www.normanfinkelstein.com...]

Ah, thanks.

502 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:12:38pm

re: #500 Sergey Romanov

I'll ask you this question, though, and don't think I'm just trying to split hairs. Are they, en masse, supporting what Manning did or are they protesting his alleged treatment?

Well. See #491. They passed that at the main OWS center being OWS in NYC. Can I say "en masse" with full confidence right now? No, not really.

503 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:14:20pm

re: #482 Gus 802

Given the recent turn of events and the sudden support of Bradly Manning by Occupy Wall Street, I will no longer support the Occupy Wall Street movement.

You're back!

504 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:14:30pm

re: #500 Sergey Romanov

I'll ask you this question, though, and don't think I'm just trying to split hairs. Are they, en masse, supporting what Manning did or are they protesting his alleged treatment?

Or just look through these.

Seems to be rather widespread.

505 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:15:03pm

re: #502 Gus 802

OK, their loss.

506 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:17:43pm

And just to be clear, if all Manning did was leak that video, I would support him myself. I would applaud him in fact. That's not the main thing he is accused of, of course. And I've seen his supporters misrepresent the reason behind his troubles as the leaking of that video, without mentioning the cables.

507 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:18:45pm

re: #503 Varek Raith

You're back!

Yeah. For now at least. Seems as though I strayed off far from the reservation and saw some strange things out there. I kept seeing Glenn Greenwald, Alex Jones, Andrew Sullivan and Ron Paul on the horizon being filmed by Press TV and Bradley Manning dancing a liturgical piece.

508 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:19:43pm

re: #507 Gus 802

Helps to keep the perspective, though :)

509 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:22:01pm

re: #507 Gus 802

I get all hot for liturgical dance.

510 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:23:23pm

re: #508 Sergey Romanov

Helps to keep the perspective, though :)

I'm still going to burn in hell. ;)

511 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:24:03pm

re: #510 Gus 802

I'm still going to burn in hell. ;)

At least frost won't be a problem anymore! /

512 Obdicut  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:24:27pm

re: #510 Gus 802

513 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:25:49pm

re: #512 Obdicut

[Video]

Amazing. A man of innumerable talents.

514 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:26:08pm

re: #512 Obdicut

[Video]

Funny. A liturgical dance piece always works well as a comedy prop. //

515 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:26:37pm

re: #510 Gus 802

I'm still going to burn in hell. ;)

It's really nice this time of year.

516 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:27:06pm

re: #515 Varek Raith

Been there?

517 Gus  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:27:57pm

re: #516 Sergey Romanov

Been there?

And back.

//

518 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:28:15pm

re: #498 Gus 802

The basic structural issue of the modern protest movement (as I griped about way back when on this very board): you've got a volatile mix of uninformed people looking for things to structure their anger, and segments of true believers seeking direct the crowd into backing their (poorly thought-through, crackpot) agenda. The zenith of OWS was when people came out spontaneously...amusingly, I would propose in spite of the agenda of the organizing groups...with a vague agenda relating to Wall Street and the economy.

You could see the meme decay set in awhile back: from here on out, that's going to be a continuing trend. The ideogogues are going to keep appropriating that moment of spontaneous power of the OWS protest, glomming their highly-specific agenda onto the vague "something ain't right here" that got people out in numbers. And they'll be enough professionally outraged folk still milling around Occupy sites for them to make a go of it.

*sigh*

519 reine.de.tout  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:48:07pm

re: #510 Gus 802

I'm still going to burn in hell. ;)

No, you're not.

520 Varek Raith  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 12:49:55pm

re: #516 Sergey Romanov

Been there?

Vacation home.

521 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:30:53pm

re: #404 Sergey Romanov

In a generally stupid Russian comedy Shirli-Myrli there's a genial episode where three identical twins separated at birth meet. They're Jewish by birth, one was raised as a Jew, another as a Gypsy and a third as a Russian. All three are "nationalists" of their respective identities, so they engage in a comical debate on which ethnic groups are bad and which are good, with all the stereotypical arguments and insults.
In the end they find some common ground:

Russian brother: - All these "nationalities" are bullshit. It all depends on the person. Even among the Jews there are good people.
Jewish brother: - And Russians are not all drunks.
Gypsy brother: - Of course! Russians are good, Jews are great. Only Gypsies are all swindlers!
Russian brother: - Who gives a damn about... Wait, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm about the blacks. After all, they're not like us, white people. True, huh?
Jewish brother: - Well, no, of course I'm not a racist... But ... I don't let blacks get too close.
Gypsy brother: - Well, to be honest... there's some such feeling. Discomfort, I would say.
Toast: for the White Man!

Well, that was predictable.

522 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:32:10pm

re: #494 Killgore Trout

Occupy activists are also doing interviews with Iranian Press TV in support of Manning today. Pretty disgusting.

Mullah Television.

Swell.

523 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 1:36:18pm

re: #495 Killgore Trout

Breitbart just published video on Normal Ficklestien speaking at Occupy Boston.

Norman reminds me of Herman Cain.

For some reason. /

524 TedStriker  Sat, Dec 17, 2011 2:43:43pm

re: #427 SanFranciscoZionist

Er, Supertroopers, not Starship Troopers.

Dear Mother of God...

///

525 boxhead  Sun, Dec 18, 2011 1:20:57am

Good job by MJ. Nice to see what many would call an extreme Leftist site publish a well researched article which promotes a position that disputes what many others have opined. I did think the NDAA allowed indefinite detention of US Citizens arrested in USA. I am glad I was wrong. MJ posting this article is like FOX saying... well anything true that goes against the GOP machine... or is it the Tea Baggers FOX loves now? I get confused. heh


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