The Bob Cesca Show: Quicksand

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Today’s program from our podcasting affiliate, The Bob Cesca Show:

Quicksand: David ‘T Rex’ Ferguson from Rawstory is here today; Trump cut a big darn dill with Schumer and Pelosi on DACA and border security; Trump supporters are freaking out; Trump says McConnell and Paul Ryan are on board; Trump dives into another quicksand pit; Bannon, Kushner and Flynn implicated in Crown Prince meeting; Devin Nunes derps again; Mike Flynn promoted a nuclear power plant deal with Russia while serving in the White House; The exploitation of Facebook is terrifying; Buy Bob’s reading of the Steele Dossier via Patreon and Band Camp; and much more.

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363 comments
1
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:22:45pm

Listen, I have to laugh through my pain sometimes and this is just hilarious.

2
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:27:56pm
3
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:33:23pm

re: #2 goddamnedfrank

And like a pyro…he may jump back in with matches at any moment. He has found his special brand of power that has a fake shot of plausible deniability (for the the susceptible) and is completely watered down by his addiction to hate.

4
austin_blue  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:35:26pm

re: #1 JordanRules

Listen, I have to laugh through my pain sometimes and this is just hilarious.

[Embedded content]

They know how to talk to him.

They know how to push his buttons.

They know how politics work.

Ryan and McConnell only know how to say “No”.

This is why the R’s are incapable of running a government. It is why they will fail.

(On the other hand, they will still stock the Juduciary with assholes who will rule the benches for the next twenty years. That they can do. Scary.)

5
teleskiguy  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:35:29pm

Why are these wingnuts speaking at U.C. Berkeley? I don’t see a lot of moonbats speaking at Bob Jones University.

6
austin_blue  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:38:16pm

re: #5 teleskiguy

Why are these wingnuts speaking at U.C. Berkeley? I don’t see a lot of moonbats speaking at Bob Jones University.

Moonbats aren’t Nazis and White Supremacists?

Just a thought…

7
Belafon  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:39:11pm

re: #1 JordanRules

Listen, I have to laugh through my pain sometimes and this is just hilarious.

[Embedded content]

This is why Republicans are right to fear empathy. In the right hands it is a very powerful weapon.

8
FormerDirtDart  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:41:25pm

She’s still invited to come speak at an event, just withdrawing the “Visiting Fellow” title

9
scottslemmons  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:41:37pm

re: #5 teleskiguy

Why are these wingnuts speaking at U.C. Berkeley? I don’t see a lot of moonbats speaking at Bob Jones University.

Bob Jones University and Liberty University don’t allow liberals to speak on campus.

10
Belafon  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:43:58pm

re: #5 teleskiguy

Why are these wingnuts speaking at U.C. Berkeley? I don’t see a lot of moonbats speaking at Bob Jones University.

Because you’re not going to get the spectacle of liberals protesting at Liberty. Boring lectures aren’t going to get you wingnut welfare.

11
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:44:14pm

re: #7 Belafon

It really is and seeing folks wield it masterfully for the greater good is one of my favorite things.

12
Belafon  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:45:11pm

About Ben: Remember when he spoke at that high school and got booed out?

13
The Ghost of a Flea  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:48:35pm

re: #5 teleskiguy

Why are these wingnuts speaking at U.C. Berkeley? I don’t see a lot of moonbats speaking at Bob Jones University.

The specific point of these visits is to cry victim. The audience isn’t the college students at all.

14
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:50:51pm

re: #4 austin_blue

The judiciary being stacked is their win and it is devastating. We’re really trying to make sure they don’t notch anymore Ws.

I sometimes think about ways we can counteract it. Hearts and minds seems like the only answer but I don’t know that these judges can be reached once they are entrenched with such secure and enduring power.

15
goddamnedfrank  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:50:59pm

re: #5 teleskiguy

Why are these wingnuts speaking at U.C. Berkeley? I don’t see a lot of moonbats speaking at Bob Jones University.

The argument is that publicly funded universities have to make themselves available as First Amendment soapboxes.

It’s a bullshit argument because virtually all universities are publicly funded if they accept federally backed student loans and Pell grants. Also, these speakers aren’t actually being paid for their time by the local conservative student groups that “invite” them, the tours are entirely funded by the likes of the Mercers and other outside ideologues with no connection to the schools.

16
Joe Bacon 🌹  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:53:57pm

re: #3 JordanRules

And like a pyro…he may jump back in with matches at any moment. He has found his special brand of power that has a fake shot of plausible deniability (for the the susceptible) and is completely watered down by his addiction to hate.

Benjyboy reminds me of Gene Wilder in Silver Streak. He continually gets tossed off the crazy train and still schemes to get back on it…and thrown off again…he sneaks on again…and gets tossed out…over and over again!

17
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:57:27pm

re: #16 Joe Bacon 🌹

18
Big Beautiful Door  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:58:31pm

re: #14 JordanRules

The judiciary being stacked is their win and it is devastating. We’re really trying to make sure they don’t notch anymore Ws.

I sometimes think about ways we can counteract it. Hearts and minds seems like the only answer but I don’t know that these judges can be reached once they are entrenched with such secure and enduring power.

Its a major reason why its so important to make Trump a one-term President.

19
BeachDem  Sep 14, 2017 • 9:58:58pm

re: #1 JordanRules

Listen, I have to laugh through my pain sometimes and this is just hilarious.

[Embedded content]

He thinks he’s more on a “cosmopolitan” level with Chuck and Nancy, but they are SOOOOO much smarter and more savvy than he is (especially, IMO, Nancy) that I can only hope/believe they are playing him like a fiddle.

20
petesh  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:02:06pm

re: #19 BeachDem

He thinks he’s more on a “cosmopolitan” level with Chuck and Nancy, but they are SOOOOO much smarter and more savvy than he is (especially, IMO, Nancy) that I can only hope/believe they are playing him like a fiddle.

Nancy’s big advantage is that she is female and therefore Trump thinks she’s dumb.

21
BeachDem  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:04:14pm

re: #8 FormerDirtDart

She’s still invited to come speak at an event, just withdrawing the “Visiting Fellow” title

[Embedded content]

Now Harvard can go on and explain these bonehead choices (per Charlie Pierce)

Joe and Mika, and this list of misanthropes: The roster of IOP fellows in 2017 includes Benghazi faker Jason Chaffetz, professional political thug Corey Lewandowski, professional bad liar Sean Spicer, and run-of-the-mill wingnuts Mary Katherine Ham and Guy Benson.

22
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:07:16pm

re: #19 BeachDem

Totally. I don’t think there is any question that they know what they’re dealing with. I expect concern trolling, purity policing and some of the usual circular firing squad from Dems as we watch this weird and transitory alliance come and go…and come back and go again.

They know they are in a soap opera with him. And they’re just trying to stop the very real set from burning down.

23
austin_blue  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:11:07pm

So She Who Must Be Obeyed is playing with Ollie Rajamani this Saturday at the Carver Center in East Austin. Oliver melds Indian, gypsy, and western music into something unique.

Here’s a sample:

Flamenco India - Mara-Oliver Rajamani-Oud music with orchestra

I’m stage managing, as usual.

24
FormerDirtDart  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:14:00pm

OK, now I’m curious.
How the hell did he manage to shoot himself in the shoulder?

25
Kragar  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:19:30pm

re: #24 FormerDirtDart

ricochet?

26
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:20:06pm
27
I cannot.  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:22:13pm

re: #24 FormerDirtDart

That is a super-awkward angle.

Holding it close while he hunches over to show someone the Forbidden Toy, that COULD do it.

28
austin_blue  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:29:59pm

And good night, dear Lizards. 10 AM Tech Rehearsal. Big band, 11 instruments, including SWMBO who is bringing both the Salvi concert pedal harp and the Starfish lever harp to the show. The gig is Saturday. Lovely little concert hall.

I hate tech rehearsals. Hate hate hate.

29
Kragar  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:37:31pm

We’re getting another Eisenhorn book finally

Gregor Eisenhorn

Gregor Eisenhorn is an Inquisitor of the Ordo Xenos. Initially a Puritan of the Amalathian faction, Eisenhorn’s Inquisitorial ideology would alter over the course of his career so dramatically towards the philosophy of Radical Xanthism that other members of the Inquisition consider him a possible heretic. Indeed, Eisenhorn has officially been considered a traitor by the Inquisition at least twice in his Inquisitorial career, only to be proved a righteous servant of the Emperor of Mankind both times.

30
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:39:54pm

Interesting thread here. Prolly needs to be looked into a bit more.

31
teleskiguy  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:40:30pm
32
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:43:14pm
33
teleskiguy  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:44:16pm

Out of 16 questions I only got three wrong.

34
BeachDem  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:46:46pm

re: #26 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

You’re never alone,
You’re never disconnected!
You’re home with your own:
When company’s expected,
You’re well protected!

Go get him, Amber. (And tell him who your daddy is!)

35
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:51:47pm

re: #34 BeachDem

Ayyye!!!
When you’re a Jet!!

36
Kragar  Sep 14, 2017 • 10:55:14pm

re: #35 JordanRules

37
Amory Blaine  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:02:04pm

38
Kragar  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:03:39pm

re: #37 Amory Blaine

39
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:05:57pm

re: #23 austin_blue

So She Who Must Be Obeyed is playing with Ollie Rajamani this Saturday at the Carver Center in East Austin. Oliver melds Indian, gypsy, and western music into something unique.

I recall when he collaborated on a rap album, “Boyz ‘n’ the Oud”

40
sagehen  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:06:31pm

re: #34 BeachDem

You’re never alone,
You’re never disconnected!
You’re home with your own:
When company’s expected,
You’re well protected!

Go get him, Amber. (And tell him who your daddy is!)

That was more than 50 years ago.

This is who he’s been more recently:

twin peaks
41
Amory Blaine  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:06:52pm

re: #38 Kragar

42
Kragar  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:09:16pm

re: #41 Amory Blaine

43
Ace-o-aces  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:10:50pm
44
Ace-o-aces  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:12:02pm
45
BeachDem  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:16:14pm

re: #40 sagehen

That was more than 50 years ago.

This is who he’s been more recently:

[Embedded content]

But—when you’re a Jet you stay a Jet.

46
Kragar  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:21:19pm

re: #45 BeachDem

47
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:36:46pm

Well, we got through the Shapiro visitation without much damage, it seems. Even the helicopters have gone home to sleep — which means I can too.

I can handle unruly crowds and wingnut appearances — but I hate helicopters with the fire of a thousand suns.

48
JordanRules  Sep 14, 2017 • 11:38:56pm

re: #47 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

Sweet. Thanks for the report.
Sleep tight!

49
teleskiguy  Sep 15, 2017 • 12:05:38am

A track from the album:

Lemme Take You To The Beach

So cheesy. I love it!

50
sagehen  Sep 15, 2017 • 12:31:20am

re: #45 BeachDem

But—when you’re a Jet you stay a Jet.

From your first cigarette to your last dying day.

51
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 12:49:31am
52
Kragar  Sep 15, 2017 • 1:20:01am
53
Kragar  Sep 15, 2017 • 1:23:59am
54
Kragar  Sep 15, 2017 • 1:26:55am
55
Kragar  Sep 15, 2017 • 1:38:37am
56
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 1:49:38am

re: #55 Kragar

A remote detonator is certainly different than the type of bombings seen as of late. That’s like a classic IRA-type bombing (well, without the telephoned warning).

57
Kragar  Sep 15, 2017 • 1:53:21am
58
Kragar  Sep 15, 2017 • 1:53:47am
59
Kragar  Sep 15, 2017 • 2:01:47am
60
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 2:16:12am

re: #59 Kragar

Seems like an IED that thankfully sort of fizzled.

61
Kragar  Sep 15, 2017 • 2:18:49am

re: #60 Dr Lizardo

Reports say lots of flames, so wondering it it was meant to be an incendiary or chemical based

62
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 2:24:24am

re: #61 Kragar

Reports say lots of flames, so wondering it it was meant to be an incendiary or chemical based

Whatever it was, it was a plastic bucket, covered with some sort of textile material (probably to conceal it) in a Lidl bag. The photo I’m seeing of it shows the (apparent) textile material smoldering, with the wires off to the side, one of which appears to be burning itself.

63
sagehen  Sep 15, 2017 • 2:36:46am

re: #62 Dr Lizardo

Whatever it was, it was a plastic bucket, covered with some sort of textile material (probably to conceal it) in a Lidl bag. The photo I’m seeing of it shows the (apparent) textile material smoldering, with the wires off to the side, one of which appears to be burning itself.

[Embedded content]

It looks pretty intact for something that “exploded”.

64
dog philosopher ஐஒஔ௸  Sep 15, 2017 • 2:42:22am

Ben Shapiro hits ‘pathetic, lying, stupid jackasses’ protesting Berkeley speech

well, after a well thought out, closely reasoned argument like that, what can i say?

65
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 2:43:11am

re: #63 sagehen

It looks pretty intact for something that “exploded”.

I think it fizzled - it was probably meant to explode but for whatever reason, it mercifully failed to completely detonate.

66
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 2:53:31am

This is of note……a passenger told Sky News that he noticed “…a chemical smell came from the train and then a stampede followed as people ran.”

He described the item on the train as a “white builder’s bucket” with flames coming from it, wires hanging from it and emitting a strong smell of chemicals.

He added: “A chemical smell more than a burning smell.”

Maybe some kind of attempted chemical weapon attack? Or simply using easily-available chemicals to construct an explosive IED?

I guess we’ll find out as soon as the Metropolitan Police do their investigation. And hopefully they’ll find the assclown who did this PDQ; I’d imagine CCTV footage is being closely scrutinized as I write this.

67
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 2:59:19am

Looking again at the photo I posted in #62, aren’t those Christmas tree lights? They sure look like it.

68
sagehen  Sep 15, 2017 • 3:28:17am

re: #66 Dr Lizardo

I guess we’ll find out as soon as the Metropolitan Police do their investigation. And hopefully they’ll find the assclown who did this PDQ; I’d imagine CCTV footage is being closely scrutinized as I write this.

A bomb that doesn’t explode has fingerprints all over it.

And some of the chemicals may only be available at limited places.

69
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 3:42:39am

re: #68 sagehen

A bomb that doesn’t explode has fingerprints all over it.

And some of the chemicals may only be available at limited places.

On the first part, yes, unless they either wore gloves or wiped it first, which I rather doubt. On the second part, I’m fairly sure a bomb could be made using common household chemicals, the kind of things you can buy at a hypermarket. But if they were trying to build something more exotic, then yeah, the bombmaker might’ve needed access to speciality chemicals, which could be traced back.

If the idea was in fact to have an explosive device, then the bombmaker(s) probably figured any evidence would be completely obliterated in the blast.

Were I a betting man, I’d wager that 5-0 will have someone in custody in about 72 hours…..maybe less.

70
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 3:46:42am

This thread. Holy shitballs.

The Icelandic government has fallen because their conservatives pardoned and then covered up pardoning a bunch of child molesters. All of whom were pardoned at the request of the PM’s father.

71
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 3:49:19am

re: #18 Big Beautiful Door

Its a major reason why its so important to make Trump a one-term President.

Or less. Preferably less.

(in my best Ben Stein voice: Mueller. Mueller.)

72
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 3:50:18am

re: #21 BeachDem

Now Harvard can go on and explain these bonehead choices (per Charlie Pierce)

Joe and Mika, and this list of misanthropes: The roster of IOP fellows in 2017 includes Benghazi faker Jason Chaffetz, professional political thug Corey Lewandowski, professional bad liar Sean Spicer, and run-of-the-mill wingnuts Mary Katherine Ham and Guy Benson.

Honestly, the one that gets me the most is Lewandowski. The guy is a violent thug.

73
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:06:42am
74
I cannot.  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:10:35am

re: #72 MsJ

Honestly, the one that gets me the most is Lewandowski. The guy is a violent thug.

Yep, I mean, Chelsea is a somewhat weird AnCom-like person, but she’s sweet and means well.

Lewandowski is a fucking thug that works for a thug.

75
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:16:15am

re: #74 I cannot.

Yep, I mean, Chelsea is a somewhat weird AnCom-like person, but she’s sweet and means well.

Lewandowski is a fucking thug that works for a thug.

I have zero love for Chelsea. What she did was as abhorrent as Snowden. She served her time. Great. She’s a criminal who harmed our country.

76
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:25:52am

Wow. Equifax has direct integration with Social Security’s system. The company that used admin/admin as a password has a direct fucking link to all Social Security records and full access.

I feel so safe now.

77
sagehen  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:25:52am

re: #75 MsJ

I have zero love for Chelsea. What she did was as abhorrent as Snowden. She served her time. Great. She’s a criminal who harmed our country.

She actually didn’t serve her time; that’s what commuting her sentence was for.

But not a pardon. Still a convicted felon.

78
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:26:31am

re: #77 sagehen

She actually didn’t serve her time; that’s what commuting her sentence was for.

She still served like eight years. That’s a fair amount of time. More than some rapists and murderers get.

79
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:26:47am
80
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:27:28am

re: #33 teleskiguy

[Embedded content]

Out of 16 questions I only got three wrong.

That was honestly difficult. 10/16.

81
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:28:06am

re: #79 Dr Lizardo

Oops. As per BBC, the IED in London was on a timer. A good old-fashioned time bomb. That’s something London hasn’t seen in quite awhile.

82
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:41:05am

While I get the point, I think if there are fewer health insurance companies (if single payer is enacted, there will always be supplementary plans for things healthcare won’t cover like private rooms, etc.), more doctors will take Medicare, or whatever it is called. But Bernie does little more than poison the well. No details. All promises. Just like always.

I so dislike him.

83
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:47:21am

NASA Mission Control Live: Cassini’s Finale at Saturn (360 video)

As of this moment, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory estimates that the Cassini mission to Saturn will lose its signal as it dives into Saturn in about ten minutes.

JPL is broadcasting live on the feed linked above.

84
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:47:27am

re: #82 MsJ

While I get the point, I think if there are fewer health insurance companies (if single payer is enacted, there will always be supplementary plans for things healthcare won’t cover like private rooms, etc.), more doctors will take Medicare, or whatever it is called. But Bernie does little more than poison the well. No details. All promises. Just like always.

I so dislike him.

[Embedded content]

This is what I was trying to say when I said he wasn’t a good leader. Merely being on the right side of most issues doesn’t make you a leader. He’s not helping when he does stuff like this.

85
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:48:16am

From the BBC regarding today’s IED incident in London:

A device with a timer obviously suggests someone left it behind - although it is entirely possible the attacker intended to stay with the bomb until the end.

Specialist CCTV search officers will now be looking for who was carrying the distinctive Lidl freezer bag and its bulky contents on to the Tube.

The London Underground is smothered with CCTV - and there were five stations to the south of Parsons Green that could have been the entrance point for the attackers and the device.

Whoever carried the device would have been captured on scores of cameras during their journey. Once the attacker has been spotted, the officers will then have to work out if they were alone and where they came from before they joined a train.

Like I said earlier, the authorities will probably have someone in custody lickety-split. Unless the bomber has somehow fled the country, they’ll likely find them in short order.

86
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:53:00am

Estimated speed of Cassini is 75,000 mph … so far its systems are still reporting they are nominal. NASA estimates a loss of signal in four minutes.

87
Targetpractice  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:53:01am

re: #82 MsJ

While I get the point, I think if there are fewer health insurance companies (if single payer is enacted, there will always be supplementary plans for things healthcare won’t cover like private rooms, etc.), more doctors will take Medicare, or whatever it is called. But Bernie does little more than poison the well. No details. All promises. Just like always.

I so dislike him.

[Embedded content]

This is the crux of much of the criticism towards the man’s proposals: They’re largely composed of wishful thinking, rather than hard numbers or solid ideas. Medicare-For-All is a nice suggestion, but unless you’ve got things down to a science, all you’re doing is giving the critics ammunition when they tear the bill apart to show how laughably naive it is. 15 Senators may like the idea, but they’re going to look like fools when this bills implodes due to lack of planning.

88
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:55:46am

Cassini is now in the atmosphere, still transmitting.

89
Targetpractice  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:57:24am

re: #88 Anymouse 🌹

Cassini is now in the atmosphere, still transmitting.

It feels like just yesterday that mission began and now here she goes for the final plunge.

90
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:57:48am

The signal from Cassini has been lost.

91
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 4:59:53am

re: #87 Targetpractice

This is the crux of much of the criticism towards the man’s proposals: They’re largely composed of wishful thinking, rather than hard numbers or solid ideas. Medicare-For-All is a nice suggestion, but unless you’ve got things down to a science, all you’re doing is giving the critics ammunition when they tear the bill apart to show how laughably naive it is. 15 Senators may like the idea, but they’re going to look like fools when this bills implodes due to lack of planning.

Which is why HRC was a better candidate and would be a better president than him.

92
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:00:25am

The project manager has called the end of the mission. The video shows applause and tears, and the spacecraft should now be crushed by the gravity of Saturn.

93
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:07:27am

Wikipedia doesn’t waste any time: It’s article on the Cassini mission has already been updated to show the information about the final destruction of the spacecraft.

en.wikipedia.org

94
Targetpractice  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:07:57am

re: #91 HappyWarrior

Which is why HRC was a better candidate and would be a better president than him.

I can’t begin to imagine what things would have looked like if the race had been Sanders/Trump, but I can imagine that it would have devolved largely into a shitfest. Both sides would have spent more time attacking each other personally than on the issues because neither side had any grasp of said issues beyond “This is what I’d like to see happen.”

95
sagehen  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:09:58am

re: #87 Targetpractice

This is the crux of much of the criticism towards the man’s proposals: They’re largely composed of wishful thinking, rather than hard numbers or solid ideas. Medicare-For-All is a nice suggestion, but unless you’ve got things down to a science, all you’re doing is giving the critics ammunition when they tear the bill apart to show how laughably naive it is. 15 Senators may like the idea, but they’re going to look like fools when this bills implodes due to lack of planning.

And I’m opposed to national single payer at all.

The UK went full socialized medicine because they were rebuilding almost from scratch after a devastating war. Between the military medical corps and civil defense emergency medicine… that was about 80% of the entire country’s health care. And half the hospitals were rubble. It wasn’t a big stretch to combine them, add in that last 20%… but even so, NHS suffers from being too big (70 million people), too many layers of administration and not as flexible as it could be.

Canada only has as many people as California; and even there, making single payer work required breaking it down into separate provincial plans; each with own administration.

I’d like to see a patchwork of state plans (maybe Cali needs 3, NY Metro can be separate from upstate, the Dakotas could pair up, or triple up with Nebraska…), with some sort of reciprocity agreements administered by the Federal govt.

We don’t all have the same needs, after all — Florida and Arizona have a lot of geriatrics who are on Medicare and wouldn’t be on the state plan, Minnesota has built their protocols around the Mayo Clinic paradigm (but nobody else has a Mayo), Utah has a high percentage of non-smoking, non-drinking outdoorsy folk and could probably have a much cheaper per capita plan than anywhere else, Mississippi has more obesity and diabetes than most places, states with megalopolises can make cost-effective use trauma centers that would be a colossal waste of money in the more sparsely populated states, West Virginia and other Appalachian states might be best served by a bunch of RV-sized clinics that spend 2-3 days a month at each of a dozen sites….

96
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:12:13am

re: #94 Targetpractice

I can’t begin to imagine what things would have looked like if the race had been Sanders/Trump, but I can imagine that it would have devolved largely into a shitfest. Both sides would have spent more time attacking each other personally than on the issues because neither side had any grasp of said issues beyond “This is what I’d like to see happen.”

Two old fogeys going at it. Part of Sanders mystique is that he’s never had to seriously discuss the issues beyond what he wants to happen. For someone in elected politics for a long time, I’d expect Sanders to have a better understanding of implementation. Unfortunately he’s more close to Trump than Clinton on understanding that and even more unfortunately too many voters are.

97
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:12:14am

re: #87 Targetpractice

This is the crux of much of the criticism towards the man’s proposals: They’re largely composed of wishful thinking, rather than hard numbers or solid ideas. Medicare-For-All is a nice suggestion, but unless you’ve got things down to a science, all you’re doing is giving the critics ammunition when they tear the bill apart to show how laughably naive it is. 15 Senators may like the idea, but they’re going to look like fools when this bills implodes due to lack of planning.

When we had a functioning government they wouldn’t even talk about any kind of stuff until it was scored by the CBO. Now, we’re broken. Pie in the sky, or worse yet, who cares what the CBO says.

98
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:14:15am

re: #95 sagehen

Oregon and Washington could team up - like Utah, a lot of real outdoors types, but also a lot of people who love their daily ganja. That would affect premiums rates as well. Generally, the PNW is considered healthier than other regions of the US (I’m looking at you, Deep South) but a “one-size fits all” approach might not be workable.

That being said, the conversation needs to start.

99
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:14:46am

VIP

100
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:18:03am

I mean for all my criticism of Sanders, I do think he means well but the so called most popular politician in America needs to be smarter than he is but then again I think part of why he retains popularity is he makes things seem easier to obtain than they are. I still remember his idea of protests if the R’s wouldn’t pass his agenda. Sorry Bernie but that would not cut it. It would be your job as President and your advisors to get around R obstruction. People even those with me who would support a lot of the agenda would grow tired of constantly protesting for a President who doesn’t understand how to get legislation passed.

101
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:19:20am
102
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:20:52am

re: #100 HappyWarrior

I mean for all my criticism of Sanders, I do think he means well but the so called most popular politician in America needs to be smarter than he is but then again I think part of why he retains popularity is he makes things seem easier to obtain than they are. I still remember his idea of protests if the R’s wouldn’t pass his agenda. Sorry Bernie but that would not cut it. It would be your job as President and your advisors to get around R obstruction. People even those with me who would support a lot of the agenda would grow tired of constantly protesting for a President who doesn’t understand how to get legislation passed.

I am not sure I agree with that. I think Bernie means well for Bernie. He has a populist message and espouses it regularly because it’s populist. For as long as he has been around, how often has he written bills for his rhetoric?

I have no respect for him and I think he is the flipside of Trump. Both are full of shit and have puffed up egos - and are do nothing but talk kind of people.

103
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:24:29am

re: #102 MsJ

I am not sure I agree with that. I think Bernie means well for Bernie. He has a populist message and espouses it regularly because it’s populist. For as long as he has been around, how often has he written bills for his rhetoric?

I have no respect for him and I think he is the flipside of Trump. Both are full of shit and have puffed up egos - and are do nothing but talk kind of people.

That’s a fair observation. And you do make a good point. How often has he actually written bills that match the rhetoric which again brings me to my criticism of him as a legislator and leader. I dunno. Sanders to me is a tough nut to crack. I do think he’s more like Trump than he is Obama or any successful leader.

104
I cannot.  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:42:44am

Friend found another one…one who thinks he knows more about Superman than Dan Jurgens

105
Targetpractice  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:48:02am

re: #104 I cannot.

Friend found another one…one who thinks he knows more about Superman than Dan Jurgens

[Embedded content]

Right, never in the decades of its existence has DC gone political.

//////

106
Weaselone  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:48:08am

re: #104 I cannot.

Wait. He’s been reading Superman comics for 57 years and thinks they’ve been free of political argument until now?

107
I cannot.  Sep 15, 2017 • 5:56:42am

re: #105 Targetpractice

And at least DC never made Superman a Nazi during a very tense time in the US…unlike another MARVELOUS publisher which I shall not name.

108
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:03:49am

re: #104 I cannot.

Friend found another one…one who thinks he knows more about Superman than Dan Jurgens

[Embedded content]

Comics and media have always had political messages.

109
Sir John Barron  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:08:54am

re: #1 JordanRules

Politico reporting that Trump, in essence, finds Ryan and McConnell too boring to deal with:
— Sopan Deb

Sorry, pal, you wanted to president, them’s the breaks.

110
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:11:05am

Greets and saluts from the Resistance in the NYC metro area. Graham Cassidy is now making the rounds, and it is yet another Zombie Trumpcare plan that screws tens of millions of people.

This is GOP redistribution of wealth. In this instance, it’s stealing from states like CA and NY that have funded health coverage for its citizens and giving a fraction of that money to states that didn’t expand Medicaid. Everyone is still ending up with less, but the biggest losers are the states that made the biggest gains in improving coverage.

It’s absolutely horrific that the GOP thinks that they’ve got a plan to provide health coverage and it is yet another indication that all the GOP cares about is tax cuts for millionaires.

Nothing in this latest GOP plan improves coverage or care, and CBO scoring will be just as bad as all the other Trumpcare plans.

Meanwhile, it’s interesting watching the spin around Sanders’ Medicare for all plan. Consider first that there’s no mechanism in the proposal that pays for any of it - that’s still TBD. Without that, you can’t even get a CBO score.

Media outlets are trying to spin this as though there’s some sea-shift in how Democrats are viewing health care or that Bernie’s some kind of trailblazer.

Hillary had a far more encompassing plan in 1993. That went down in flames thanks to the insurance industry and lobbyists. Much more recently, Rep. John Conyers has been introducing a similar plan in every Congressional session with little fanfare. But with Sanders and now other possible Democratic contenders for the WH signing on, there’s a push.

Democrats have a plan (or at least an outline). The GOP are busy trying to roll back rights and programs in a push to gut the role of government and abdicate their role to provide for the general welfare (once again, the GOP ignores the Constitution and the Bill of Rights other than the 2A).

111
GlutenFreeJesus  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:17:35am

OMG NM. Gateway pundit fool.

112
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:19:39am

re: #90 Anymouse

The signal from Cassini has been lost.

*sniff* A tangible bit of scientific excellence is gone, metal vapors.

113
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:19:55am

re: #111 GlutenFreeJesus

The Bern in 1987: if we expanded Medicaid to everybody, we would bankrupt the nation.”

[Embedded content]

Neolib!

114
I cannot.  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:20:38am
115
GlutenFreeJesus  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:25:34am

re: #113 HappyWarrior

Neolib!

Dammit you caught that quick. lol

116
John Carter  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:26:13am

re: #95 sagehen

And I’m opposed to national single payer at all.

The UK went full socialized medicine because they were rebuilding almost from scratch after a devastating war. Between the military medical corps and civil defense emergency medicine… that was about 80% of the entire country’s health care. And half the hospitals were rubble. It wasn’t a big stretch to combine them, add in that last 20%… but even so, NHS suffers from being too big (70 million people), too many layers of administration and not as flexible as it could be.

Canada only has as many people as California; and even there, making single payer work required breaking it down into separate provincial plans; each with own administration.

I’d like to see a patchwork of state plans (maybe Cali needs 3, NY Metro can be separate from upstate, the Dakotas could pair up, or triple up with Nebraska…), with some sort of reciprocity agreements administered by the Federal govt.

We don’t all have the same needs, after all — Florida and Arizona have a lot of geriatrics who are on Medicare and wouldn’t be on the state plan, Minnesota has built their protocols around the Mayo Clinic paradigm (but nobody else has a Mayo), Utah has a high percentage of non-smoking, non-drinking outdoorsy folk and could probably have a much cheaper per capita plan than anywhere else, Mississippi has more obesity and diabetes than most places, states with megalopolises can make cost-effective use trauma centers that would be a colossal waste of money in the more sparsely populated states, West Virginia and other Appalachian states might be best served by a bunch of RV-sized clinics that spend 2-3 days a month at each of a dozen sites….

You can’t break off health people in Utah from obese Mississippi people to make it cheaper for some people than others. That is not how insurance works.

117
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:29:42am
118
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:30:47am
119
jeffreyw  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:33:22am

Imgur


Good morning!

120
dangerman  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:35:18am

i’ll not be sticking around this am - just catching up on whatever it was ive been missing this last week

two stories caught my eye that made me confident that things are still as odd as always

from politico trump on shaking hands, he is a:

germaphobe who has described shaking hands as “terrible,” “barbaric” and “one of the curses of American society”

and on sander’s single payer, cnbc

Trump calls Bernie Sanders’ single-payer health plan ‘a curse on the US,’

bolds mine

enjoy the day

121
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:35:58am

I woke up a little hungry.

122
Le Coquí Résistance  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:36:39am

re: #95 sagehen

And I’m opposed to national single payer at all.

The UK went full socialized medicine because they were rebuilding almost from scratch after a devastating war. Between the military medical corps and civil defense emergency medicine… that was about 80% of the entire country’s health care. And half the hospitals were rubble. It wasn’t a big stretch to combine them, add in that last 20%… but even so, NHS suffers from being too big (70 million people) and not as flexible as it could be.

Canada only has as many people as California; and even there, making single payer work required breaking it down into separate provincial plans; each with own administration.

I’d like to see a patchwork of state plans (maybe Cali needs 3, NY Metro can be separate from upstate, the Dakotas could pair up, or triple up with Nebraska…), with some sort of reciprocity agreements administered by the Federal govt.

We don’t all have the same needs, after all — Florida and Arizona have a lot of geriatrics who are on Medicare and wouldn’t be on the state plan, Minnesota has built their protocols around the Mayo Clinic paradigm (but nobody else has a Mayo), Utah has a high percentage of non-smoking, non-drinking outdoorsy folk and could probably have a much cheaper per capita plan than anywhere else, Mississippi has more obesity and diabetes than most places, states with megalopolises can make cost-effective use trauma centers that would be a colossal waste of money in the more sparsely populated states, West Virginia and other Appalachian states might be best served by a bunch of RV-sized clinics that spend 2-3 days a month at each of a dozen sites….

It’s a nice idea, except with one problem: these are today’s needs. We don’t know what’s going to happen in a 5 year span. What if the next retiree generation decides that Utah is a great place to retire? Now Utah-care will be playing catch up, trying to snag doctors to help handle the new load.

A one-size-fits-all approach might not bring that many savings, but it’s much more flexible should the need arises.

123
makeitstop  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:51:32am

Good point.

124
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:51:37am

re: #95 sagehen

Expanding Medicare is probably a path to single payer because it shows that the system can already bend health care costs (by reducing reimbursements and having negotiating power with hospitals and doctors). Enlarging this group over time might be the way to do it.

Right now, Medicare kicks in for people who are 65 and over.

Over a 10 year period, you could reduce that from 65 to 55, 45, 35, 25, and then everyone else.

Who’d fight the shift? Insurance companies and doctors. Why? Jobs for the former, and lower reimbursements for the latter. How could you overcome those? Insurance companies could do the processing of these new age cohorts following the federal rules. You could sell doctors on this by indicating that by going to Medicare for all, you’d reduce your overhead and eliminate the need to have insurance billing specialists because there’d be only one insurer at the end of the road and that would be a significant cost savings to them and their patients. Everyone could spend more time getting care and focused on the patient than fighting on billing with separate insurers.

The real issue is how all of this is paid for.

Right now, employees are paying for Medicare tax plus employers and employees are paying for the employer-based plans. Those costs are not insubstantial. It’s a hidden cost, but it’s there. Shifting those costs out of the benefits package and identifying it as a tax would be a tough sell, but ultimately it’s the same money.

In other words, if you’ve got a health care plan where you’re contributing $200 biweekly for your health insurance, you’ll have paid $5,200 annually - combined with the employer contribution of the same, and your coverage is worth $10,400. That’s $10,400 that would go to Medicare coverage. You’d still have the health coverage and it’s the same amount you’re paying now, but where the money goes and how it reflects on your paycheck is different.

You could even treat is amount ($5,200 employer share/$5,200 employee share) in the same fashion for tax purposes, so that there’s no additional tax burden.

125
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:52:54am

re: #123 makeitstop

Something rather revealing in Trump calling “antifa” the “other side”

again: anyone who is anti-fascist or anti-white supremacist has to be lumped in with antifa so they can be rhetorically written off…

126
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:53:58am

re: #32 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Just spent my morning writing my favorite Senator Rob Portman about this new attempt to mess up health insurance with the Graham-Cassidy-Heller Non-Healthcare Act.
Next up: Mitch McConnell.

I’m pissed!!!

And it is Friday. No one should be pissed on a Friday. WTF!

127
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 6:56:11am

re: #95 sagehen

And I’m opposed to national single payer at all.

The UK went full socialized medicine because they were rebuilding almost from scratch after a devastating war. Between the military medical corps and civil defense emergency medicine… that was about 80% of the entire country’s health care. And half the hospitals were rubble. It wasn’t a big stretch to combine them, add in that last 20%… but even so, NHS suffers from being too big (70 million people), too many layers of administration and not as flexible as it could be.

Canada only has as many people as California; and even there, making single payer work required breaking it down into separate provincial plans; each with own administration.

I’d like to see a patchwork of state plans (maybe Cali needs 3, NY Metro can be separate from upstate, the Dakotas could pair up, or triple up with Nebraska…), with some sort of reciprocity agreements administered by the Federal govt.

We don’t all have the same needs, after all — Florida and Arizona have a lot of geriatrics who are on Medicare and wouldn’t be on the state plan, Minnesota has built their protocols around the Mayo Clinic paradigm (but nobody else has a Mayo), Utah has a high percentage of non-smoking, non-drinking outdoorsy folk and could probably have a much cheaper per capita plan than anywhere else, Mississippi has more obesity and diabetes than most places, states with megalopolises can make cost-effective use trauma centers that would be a colossal waste of money in the more sparsely populated states, West Virginia and other Appalachian states might be best served by a bunch of RV-sized clinics that spend 2-3 days a month at each of a dozen sites….

We already have national single-payer plans administered by the US government, as long as you’re part of the “correct group.”

Medicare for the elderly, CHAMPUS/Tricare for military dependants and retirees are good everywhere in the country, at every hospital and clinic.

My wife fell when we were in Michigan and injured herself; I took her straight to a hospital knowing Tricare would pay everything there just as it does here a thousand miles away. Same paperwork, &c.

There is no reason the wealthiest nation in the history of the world cannot provide that for all its citizens instead of select groups: “It’s too hard” is not much of an excuse, and “saving money” is even less of one (unless you value money over people).

As for trauma centres in sparsely-populated states, I guess agricultural work accident victims should just suck it up (trauma is one of the principal injuries in agriculture). Of course we never have car wrecks out here either (better wreck your car in LA or New York, rural folks).

And mobile clinics for Appalachia that go to a place a couple times a month? “I’m sorry dear, you can’t get your broken arm set until the 15th of the month.”

128
Belafon  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:02:02am

re: #124 lawhawk

I would have the law require employers report to employees the money the company pays for health care as an actual part of the employee’s salary, and list it as being taken out of their salary for health care. That would force employees to actually see the higher number their salary truly is.

129
Eventual Carrion  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:30:28am

re: #123 makeitstop

Good point.

[Embedded content]

Yes, if anti-fascist is the ‘other side’ then that makes him fascist.

130
I cannot.  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:32:31am

re: #129 Eventual Carrion

I mean, it *COULD* be “the side that’s not fascist” and not “the people opposing MY team”.

Yeah, I don’t believe that either.

131
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:33:49am

re: #129 Eventual Carrion

Yes, if anti-fascist is the ‘other side’ then that makes him fascist.

Didn’t we already suspect/know that?

This is no big reveal to me just another indication of what has been Trump all along.

132
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:33:56am

Lots of short delays on the LA red line subway this morning. No extra police visible yet.

133
Ace-o-aces  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:39:55am
134
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:42:18am

re: #133 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

Can you imagine Obama going off on each and everyone who went after him. ESPN doesn’t owe Trump shit. As for ratings, just shut the fuck up about ratings.

135
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:43:55am

re: #51 JordanRules

Y’know, I hadn’t heard of this case. But Kaepernick is disrespecting America, right? When a cop can plant a gun on an unarmed man, premeditate his murder, have these actions captured on video, and still get off clean?

And the concern is the *protestors*?

136
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:46:33am
137
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:47:55am

re: #135 Bass Reeves

Y’know, I hadn’t heard of this case. But Kaepernick is disrespecting America, right? When a cop can plant a gun on an unarmed man, premeditate his murder, have these actions captured on video, and still get off clean?

And the concern is the *protestors*?

A lot of white people especially men can’t stand the truth that racism still is a problem and we white men are are a big part of the problem when we either refuse to empathize, vote Republican as a bloc, and continue to portray ourselves as the “real victims” in 21st century America when we bitch up a storm about Happy Holidays or Kaep kneeling for the national anthem.

138
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:50:09am
139
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:50:50am

re: #136 lawhawk

lawhawk @lawhawk
One thing warms @realDonaldTrump’s black heart - free labor.
10:45 AM - Sep 15, 2017
Replies Retweets 1 1 like

I’m waiting for them to turn this into a teaching moment for America’s youth. They will use that kid as an example of a future business leader and how he could start his own all White lawn maintenance company. If you get my drift…

140
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:51:04am

re: #138 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

“If I’d been doing what she did, I’d be in jail.” You’re right Mike except you were doing all that you accused of her doing.

141
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:51:55am

re: #139 ObserverArt

I’m waiting for them to turn this into a teaching moment for America’s youth. They will use that kid as an example of a future business leader and how he could start his own all White lawn maintenance company. If you get my drift…

Oh you know that’s coming on FNC. They’ll use this kid as a model of today’s youth and attack the college kids who dared to show their displeasure with Shapiro showing up on their campus last night to spew his bullshit.

142
Barefoot Grin  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:54:32am
143
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:57:55am

re: #142 Barefoot Grin

[Embedded content]

Which means he’s going to.

144
makeitstop  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:58:25am

re: #142 Barefoot Grin

[Embedded content]

Trump’s tweet and police reaction -

145
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 7:58:53am

I do wish Hillary’s book hadn’t come out so people would focus on what’s actually going on rather than bitching at her but then again they would have done that regardless of tis release date.

146
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:00:05am

re: #144 makeitstop

Trump’s tweet and police reaction -

[Embedded content]

This is so fucking embarrassing. A Congressman shouldn’t be doing this. A President? Man we fucked ourselves with Trump. UK doing the Brexist was bad and very stupid but this, this is the kind of thing that we may look back and say was the start of our nation’s decline not just as a leader in the world but as a force for good.

147
makeitstop  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:00:16am

Sounds like Mueller’s guys have Manafort all wrapped up and tied with a pretty bow - or they will soon.

148
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:00:43am

re: #137 HappyWarrior

I’m talking about “our” side. The “Antifa are morons” side. The side that takes the Civil Rights Movement and whitewashes it just as much as the Republicans do. The people that look at this situation and place a higher priority on peace than effective change.

149
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:02:03am

re: #148 Bass Reeves

I’m talking about “our” side. The “Antifa are morons” side. The side that takes the Civil Rights Movement and whitewashes it just as much as the Republicans do. The people that look at this situation and place a higher priority on peace than effective change.

Oh, I agree with you on that too. But yes the people who say “MLK wouldn’t approve” to BLM and groups like that too.

150
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:04:49am

re: #142 Barefoot Grin

[Embedded content]

Embarrassment might be an understatement.

Hell, it is downright deplorable.

151
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:05:05am

re: #139 ObserverArt

I’m waiting for them to turn this into a teaching moment for America’s youth. They will use that kid as an example of a future business leader and how he could start his own all White lawn maintenance company. If you get my drift…

This wingnut meme has been out there for years:

152
wheat-dogg  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:05:43am

re: #133 Ace-o-aces

He’s blowing smoke. Sports fans are not going to drop ESPN anytime soon.

153
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:06:53am

re: #151 The Vicious Babushka

Easiest way to get rich is to avoid paying other people for work.

It’s how Trump does it.
It’s how Mnunchin does it. It’s what the GOP wants to see done.

154
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:06:54am

re: #151 The Vicious Babushka

This wingnut meme has been out there for years:

[Embedded content]

It’s just so stupid. Wingnuts really think getting a job these days is easy as submitting a resume and the hiring manager calling you in a couple days and getting an interview and then you answer some questions and hey you got a job! It’s not like that and it just shows how out of touch with reality they are.

155
wheat-dogg  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:07:31am

re: #154 HappyWarrior

It’s just so stupid. Wingnuts really think getting a job these days is easy as submitting a resume and the hiring manager calling you in a couple days and getting an interview and then you answer some questions and hey you got a job! It’s not like that and it just shows how out of touch with reality they are.

Easier if you’re a white guy.

156
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:12:22am

re: #155 wheat-dogg

Easier if you’re a white guy.

With a name and connections too.

157
makeitstop  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:14:02am

Seen on Facebook:

Hillary Clinton could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and do nothing,
and they would say she shot somebody.

158
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:14:43am

re: #155 wheat-dogg

Easier if you’re a white guy.

Depends on your age and your line of work.

Like take a 58 year old white graphic artist in a market that is full of young graphic artists being turned out of a very good local art college and with the healthcare issues everyone faces.

Ask me how I know.

Edit to add: internships.

159
Joe Bacon 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:20:07am

re: #76 MsJ

Wow. Equifax has direct integration with Social Security’s system. The company that used admin/admin as a password has a direct fucking link to all Social Security records and full access.

I feel so safe now.

[Embedded content]

Aw shaaaavvvvviiiiinnnngggg cream!

Glad I’m in the dentist chair this morning instead of hearing all hell breaking loose on the phones!

160
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:22:56am

re: #157 makeitstop

Seen on Facebook:

I saw that on twitter this morning, too.

161
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:23:33am

re: #160 MsJ

I saw that on twitter this morning, too.

It’s true. She can do no right with many people even those who agree with her more than they don’t.

162
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:24:42am

If you have Twitter, start tweeting away.

163
Citizen K  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:26:30am

Ex-cop Jason Stockley found not guilty in black man’s death

A St. Louis judge on Friday found former police officer Jason Stockley not guilty of first-degree murder in the 2011 shooting death of black motorist Anthony Lamar Smith.

“This Court, in conscience, cannot say that the State has proven every element of murder beyond a reasonable doubt, or that the State has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense,” St. Louis Circuit Judge Timothy Wilson wrote in his ruling.

What the CNN article seems to lack is…this choice bit of justification.

Keep in mind too, this asshole said, on dashcam, he was going to kill Smith.

There’s literally nothing a cop can’t get away with.

164
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:27:00am

re: #162 MsJ

Haven’t been able to get thru to McCain or Flake’s office in DC yet.
My redial finger is working out today!

165
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:28:01am

re: #163 Citizen K

Wow. Wow. Wow.

This is so fucked up.

166
Belafon  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:28:53am

re: #148 Bass Reeves

I’m talking about “our” side. The “Antifa are morons” side. The side that takes the Civil Rights Movement and whitewashes it just as much as the Republicans do. The people that look at this situation and place a higher priority on peace than effective change.

Just a question: What effective change does Antifa represent?

167
Citizen K  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:29:31am

re: #165 JordanRules

Wow. Wow. Wow.

This is so fucked up.

And yet it’s our reality. This is why Black Lives Matters matters. It’s why it’s fought tooth and nail and treated as a “terrorist organization”.

It’s why changing it is so hard short of fucking revolution, it seems: the institutions are rotten to the core and inoculate themselves fully and utterly.

168
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:31:03am

re: #163 Citizen K

Ex-cop Jason Stockley found not guilty in black man’s death

What the CNN article seems to lack is…this choice bit of justification.

[Embedded content]

Keep in mind too, this asshole said, on dashcam, he was going to kill Smith.

There’s literally nothing a cop can’t get away with.

So fucking awful. I don’t care if the guy was a drug dealer or not. He still had rights.

169
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:31:36am

re: #167 Citizen K

And yet it’s our reality. This is why Black Lives Matters matters. It’s why it’s fought tooth and nail and treated as a “terrorist organization”.

It’s why changing it is so hard short of fucking revolution, it seems: the institutions are rotten to the core and inoculate themselves fully and utterly.

You’re absolutely right.

170
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:31:39am

re: #167 Citizen K

To the core! Self-perpetuating. Baked in.

171
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:32:20am

re: #166 Belafon

Just a question: What effective change does Antifa represent?

To stop normalizing fascism. I agree with the goal. I do not agree with the tactics. I think they are hurting the cause (which I 100% support). Which infuriates me.

That said, let’s do a flipside. A woman was killed by fascist nazi wannabe scumbag in VA. So maybe I am the one who is thinking the tactics are wrong.

172
Stanley Sea  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:32:24am

re: #159 Joe Bacon 🌹

JOE!!!

I tweeted out your famous #19 on an onion roll photo & tagged @langersdeli on 9/6 & today they re-tweeted it!

HA

173
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:33:01am

Deleted tweet….

174
Barefoot Grin  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:33:11am

My only problem with this tweet is the past tense. Not “tried”; “still trying.” Jason Chavetz was on Fox this morning accusing Rice still of inappropriate unmasking. This will go on and on.

175
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:33:16am

re: #168 HappyWarrior

So fucking awful. I don’t care if the guy was a drug dealer or not. He still had rights.

Apparently not in America any longer.

176
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:34:17am

re: #175 MsJ

Apparently not in America any longer.

Yeah I meant he should. Sigh. Fucking lynch mob mentality in this country.

177
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:34:36am

re: #76 MsJ

Wow. Equifax has direct integration with Social Security’s system. The company that used admin/admin as a password has a direct fucking link to all Social Security records and full access.

I feel so safe now.

I’m at four out of five agencies in freezing my credit. I’m not sure what else there is to do besides pay attention.

178
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:34:47am

re: #174 Barefoot Grin

My only problem with this tweet is the past tense. Not “tried”; “still trying.” Jason Chavetz was on Fox this morning accusing Rice still of inappropriate unmasking. This will go on and on.

[Embedded content]

Susan’s sin was working for Obama. Nothing more, nothing less. Chaffetz is a chickenshit weasel.

179
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:35:12am

I’m so disillusioned with this country lately.

180
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:35:27am
181
William Lewis  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:35:34am

re: #168 HappyWarrior

So fucking awful. I don’t care if the guy was a drug dealer or not. He still had rights.

“You have the right not to be killed!
Murder is a crime!
Unless it was done by a policeman…
Or an Aristocrat…”

The Clash

Know your enemy everyone.

182
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:36:05am

You can kill an unarmed man, talk about how you’re going to klil him, and get off if you’re a cop. Meanwhile you can still have your entire life ruined if you commit some petty offenses.

183
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:36:32am

re: #180 MsJ

Cc: Ana Navarro

184
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:36:42am

re: #181 William Lewis

“You have the right not to be killed!
Murder is a crime!
Unless it was done by a policeman…
Or an Aristocrat…”

The Clash

Know your enemy everyone.

I miss Joe.

185
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:36:57am

re: #183 JordanRules

Cc: Ana Navarro

Ditto. That party isn’t worth saving.

186
Citizen K  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:40:05am

re: #171 MsJ

To stop normalizing fascism. I agree with the goal. I do not agree with the tactics. I think they are hurting the cause (which I 100% support). Which infuriates me.

That said, let’s do a flipside. A woman was killed by fascist nazi wannabe scumbag in VA. So maybe I am the one who is thinking the tactics are wrong.

Keep in mind the double standards at work here too. APparently, the murder and other direct attacks in Charlottesville were somehow not interconnected or evidence of some larger organizing, thus “lone wolves”, but some Black Bloc morons breaking windows and assaulting journalists (objectively bad things, mind) means the entirety of Antifa or anyone opposing white supremacists are the REAL terrorists and are all collectively guilty and evil.

It’s a fucking Catch-22 we’re perpetually stuck in because anything WE do is somehow proof of a vast group/population/demographic/etc-wide pathology, but anything THEY do gets the benefit of individual agency and separation, and the media seems to willfully reinforce this time and time and time a-fucking-gain.

187
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:42:39am

re: #186 Citizen K

Keep in mind the double standards at work here too. APparently, the murder and other direct attacks in Charlottesville were somehow not interconnected or evidence of some larger organizing, thus “lone wolves”, but some Black Bloc morons breaking windows and assaulting journalists (objectively bad things, mind) means the entirety of Antifa or anyone opposing white supremacists are the REAL terrorists and are all collectively guilty and evil.

It’s a fucking Catch-22 we’re perpetually stuck in because anything WE do is somehow proof of a vast group/population/demographic/etc-wide pathology, but anything THEY do gets the benefit of individual agency and separation, and the media seems to willfully reinforce this time and time and time a-fucking-gain.

My point about white privilege is as white men, people like me never get ask to hold others in our group accountable by politicians and the media. Timothy McVeigh? Ted Bundy? Straight white males who committed their heinous crimes. No one was saying that white men needed to condemn this or that. They were “crazy.” Just as Adam Lanza was. But if something like what happens in Orlando or Chicago, it’s the fault of every last Muslim or black person and that’s wrong.

188
Eventual Carrion  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:42:41am

re: #144 makeitstop

Trump’s tweet and police reaction -

[Embedded content]

Guess that is a nice way of saying, “Shutup you fucking idiot!”

189
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:43:16am

re: #188 Eventual Carrion

Guess that is a nice way of saying, “Shutup you fucking idiot!”

It’s better if read in a British accent, I assure you.

190
Citizen K  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:43:43am

re: #179 HappyWarrior

I’m so disillusioned with this country lately.

I’ve been disillusioned for a while. At this point, I’m simply sick and convinced the country is setting itself for purges and pogroms of the ‘undesirables’ soon.

191
Decatur Deb  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:45:42am

re: #190 Citizen K

I’ve been disillusioned for a while. At this point, I’m simply sick and convinced the country is setting itself for purges and pogroms of the ‘undesirables’ soon.

You’ve got about three years to make sure that doesn’t happen. After that, all bets are off.

192
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:45:58am

re: #190 Citizen K

I’ve been disillusioned for a while. At this point, I’m simply sick and convinced the country is setting itself for purges and pogroms of the ‘undesirables’ soon.

I can’t say I blame you. We’re at an important moment in our history. We have a long way to go and I’m afraid we’ve made huge steps backwards.

193
Belafon  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:46:20am

re: #171 MsJ

To stop normalizing fascism. I agree with the goal. I do not agree with the tactics. I think they are hurting the cause (which I 100% support). Which infuriates me.

That said, let’s do a flipside. A woman was killed by fascist nazi wannabe scumbag in VA. So maybe I am the one who is thinking the tactics are wrong.

I realize we’re debating a Malcom X vs MLK style of resistance, but, to me, an organization that is threatening force had better scare people. And Shaprio went to Berkley because he’s not scared of Antifa. He went there to get Antifa to break things so he, and other right wing groups, could use them.

Right now, they are not effective, and their current form of organizing and acting isn’t scaring anyone who matters.

194
Citizen K  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:48:03am

re: #191 Decatur Deb

You’ve got about three years to make sure that doesn’t happen. After that, all bets are off.

That’s half the problem: I’m not sure we HAVE three years before it starts.

195
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:48:18am

re: #193 Belafon

I realize we’re debating a Malcom X vs MLK style of resistance, but, to me, an organization that is threatening force had better scare people. And Shaprio went to Berkley because he’s not scared of Antifa. He went there to get Antifa to break things so he, and other right wing groups, could use them.

Right now, they are not effective, and their current form of organizing and acting isn’t scaring anyone who matters.

I agree with that. They help write the right’s script for them. At the same time though, I do feel we need to confront the fascists and I include Shapiro in that.

196
Decatur Deb  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:49:01am

re: #194 Citizen K

That’s half the problem: I’m not sure we HAVE three years before it starts.

My faith and hope reside in a hidebound bureaucracy.

197
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:50:24am

The thing that troubles me though is the divide within the left. We got the pragmatists and the others who demand purity in a time we can’t have purity.

198
Citizen K  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:54:44am

re: #196 Decatur Deb

My faith and hope reside in a hidebound bureaucracy.

Here’s hoping. We’ve seen how quickly Bureaucracy parts like the Red Sea in the face of strongarm authoriarianism. And about the only thing that a GOP pol can do to get colleagues and base to turn on them is ‘work with Demcrats’

199
Belafon  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:56:17am

re: #195 HappyWarrior

I agree with that. They help write the right’s script for them. At the same time though, I do feel we need to confront the fascists and I include Shapiro in that.

Agree, including Shapiro. And I know that any attempt at resistance will help the right. And I would like any fascists to be afraid of gathering in groups because, while God might also show up, a mob will show up that isn’t afraid of them.

Here’s how you can tell the right isn’t afraid of Antifa: There’s been nearly zero discussion of banning masks at rallies in any city. It’s not like wingers have a sudden interest in first amendment rights.

200
GlutenFreeJesus  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:57:23am
201
GlutenFreeJesus  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:58:31am

St Louis cop: not guilty

And it’s also a day ending in y.

202
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 8:59:06am

I think we need to watch Andy closely for the next week. (He was Obama’s ACAPP guy.)

Thread.

203
William Lewis  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:00:03am

re: #196 Decatur Deb

My faith and hope reside in a hidebound bureaucracy.

It will come down to the mid-term elections. If the usual happens, the Constitution will cease to have any more meaning than the Soviet Constitution did.

All I really wonder anymore is how many generations long the interregnum between the first and second American republics will be…

204
Decatur Deb  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:00:57am

re: #198 Citizen K

Here’s hoping. We’ve seen how quickly Bureaucracy parts like the Red Sea in the face of strongarm authoriarianism. And about the only thing that a GOP pol can do to get colleagues and base to turn on them is ‘work with Demcrats’

Before it parts, the machine must give the authoritarian a good bit of the strong arm.

205
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:01:54am

I hate Republicans. To the depth of my soul.

The last tweet below is the money shot.

206
Decatur Deb  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:03:11am

re: #199 Belafon

Agree, including Shapiro. And I know that any attempt at resistance will help the right. And I would like any fascists to be afraid of gathering in groups because, while God might also show up, a mob will show up that isn’t afraid of them.

Here’s how you can tell the right isn’t afraid of Antifa: There’s been nearly zero discussion of banning masks at rallies in any city. It’s not like wingers have a sudden interest in first amendment rights.

Antifa/Black Bloc have been infiltrated and influenced by the RW from their beginning.

207
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:03:13am

Based on my over 60 years of observations of racial issues in this country a Judge in St. Louis not being a bigot and having a prejudiced view of people of color is an anomaly.

I just love decisions based on averages and what-ifs.

Damn, between this, Graham-Cassidy-Heller healthcare legislation and Trump being a national embarrassment this is a tough day to face.

208
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:06:32am

I think you can’t erase prejudice but you can damn well try to overcome it. Too many are not interested in overcoming their prejudices.

209
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:07:25am
210
Belafon  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:08:09am

re: #205 MsJ

I hate Republicans. To the depth of my soul.

The last tweet below is the money shot.

So, there are no Republican representatives in blue states?

211
Decatur Deb  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:08:16am

re: #208 HappyWarrior

I think you can’t erase prejudice but you can damn well try to overcome it. Too many are not interested in overcoming their prejudices.

It would be good if we knew whether we want a reform, a revolution, or a religious revival.

212
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:09:59am

re: #211 Decatur Deb

It would be good if we knew whether we want a reform, a revolution, or a religious revival.

Honestly, that depends on the issue. We need reform in some areas and a revolution in others.

213
Decatur Deb  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:10:36am

re: #212 HappyWarrior

Honestly, that depends on the issue. We need reform in some areas and a revolution in others.

It doesn’t work that way.

214
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:10:42am
215
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:11:52am

Shameless Page Promotion:

Equifax Used the Word «ADMIN» for the Login and Password of a Database (CNBC reports on the findings of a computer security firm)

216
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:12:53am

re: #214 JordanRules

So far, btw, there has been no claim of responsibility.

217
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:12:55am

re: #210 Belafon

So, there are no Republican representatives in blue states?

This is what buying votes looks like. This is the money they are moving around to get these fucking assholes to bring back pre-existing conditions, caps on insurance coverage and other neat Fuck You America things.

Look how much is coming out of, say, CA and NY and how much is going to TX, etc.

218
Teukka  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:14:44am

re: #215 Anymouse 🌹

Shameless Page Promotion:

Equifax Used the Word «ADMIN» for the Login and Password of a Database (CNBC reports on the findings of a computer security firm)

DAFUQ?

219
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:16:07am
220
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:16:26am

re: #215 Anymouse 🌹

Shameless Page Promotion:

Equifax Used the Word «ADMIN» for the Login and Password of a Database (CNBC reports on the findings of a computer security firm)

Not only did they use Admin/Admin but if you viewed the source, you could **see** the passwords.

221
Flying Squirrel Girl  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:16:30am

re: #217 MsJ

And they don’t even need to entice Texas with extra money, our assholes will vote for anything as long as it’s cruel enough.

222
Dragonomics  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:18:18am

Nobody can “dump” ESPN. The cable/satellite companies would have to dump ESPN, and they won’t. It would force ESPN’s hand to go streaming, and with that, the package deal business model dies as would numerous useless garbage channels.

223
electrotek  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:19:29am

I got up this morning to the news of a bomb blast in London and immediately texted my friend to see if she was alright. Here are the texts of our convo this morning:

224
BeachDem  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:21:48am

re: #139 ObserverArt

I’m waiting for them to turn this into a teaching moment for America’s youth. They will use that kid as an example of a future business leader and how he could start his own all White lawn maintenance company. If you get my drift…

Smells sounds a lot like Newt’s idea for poor kids to do janitorial work in schools. (And the support he got from the yam)

From 2011 (now referred to as our halcyon days)

And he enlisted Trump to this cause. The two men said Trump agreed to Gingrich’s suggestion to create 10 paid apprenticeships for poor New Yorkers.

reuters.com

225
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:23:07am

re: #203 William Lewis

It will come down to the mid-term elections. If the usual happens, the Constitution will cease to have any more meaning than the Soviet Constitution did.

All I really wonder anymore is how many generations long the interregnum between the first and second American republics will be…

Well, if turnouts in recent special elections have any meaning, then things aren’t entirely dark.

As I noted in an E-mail to dejected friends and family yesterday …

In the Oklahoma special election Tuesday (to replace a Republican state representative who resigned to lead the Norman Chamber of Commerce), the Democratic challenger lost all sixteen precincts in November. In this election, he carried fifteen of sixteen, plus the absentee ballots and early voting. According to the secretary of state, the turnout was double that of a normal election. Encouraged by this, the Democrats are focusing on the three remaining special elections in Oklahoma, on November 14.

That is the third of three special elections in Oklahoma that have flipped to the Democrats.

As Nate Silver of FiveThirtyEight noted at his electoral analysis site, Democrats have been overperforming everywhere in special elections since January 20. While House seats rarely flip in special elections, many Republican seats in state or local elections have—despite millions of dollars spent to defend what should be safe seats. One wonders how long those in the House and Senate GOP caucuses will allow this to go on. It was the prospect of an electoral bloodbath that caused the GOP to move against President Nixon (self-preservation, not impeaching a criminal). Does the GOP have the same self-preservation sense today?

226
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:23:44am

re: #219 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Well considering how few women Trump has in his cabinet, it’s a legitimate question. I don’t care what some has been VJ on FNC says.

227
m0nkeyb0y  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:24:07am

re: #44 Ace-o-aces

[Embedded content]

This is a great idea.
If the press has to report that x times as many new voters were registered than showed up to support Ben/Trump, it might take the wind out of these stupid publicity stunts

228
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:27:01am

re: #224 BeachDem

Off topic

8r7X/WC8Cj3f+21WG2fmAp+bYjqkAfBlUH6fZCDV8wH4r5VHp7jmobM5XkRNu1dqBLWFhqqyfwMJLhxajEP0DPuHwX3dL1wwQUaM/R0N2KDXxqGawK/ae2ctBT9F9cBrF9O9FzZWWAQVYlGHJBo6cwoySeCG8BaptNKzP0Bq9idlIufpIiCOggxiT8a0wP/U

229
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:27:26am

re: #184 HappyWarrior

I miss Joe.

This isn’t Joe’s song, but he made it so, at least to me.

And sometimes when I am bummed out, like I am a bit today, I’ll play this…

Redemption Song - Joe Strummer

230
electrotek  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:28:05am
231
electrotek  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:30:30am
232
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:36:08am

re: #193 Belafon

I would disagree that they are ineffective in scaring people. Part of the issue is of course, that the system protects the truly awful elements of our society, but only as long as those elements are perpetuating violence (physical, economic, legislative) against minorities. Shapiro and others *feel safe because the system protects them*. But you know who doesn’t feel safe in front of Antifa? Richard Spencer.

And you have it slightly wrong. I’m not arguing Malcom versus Martin. I’m arguing that Martin was only successful *because of* Malcom. And King knew it. I’m arguing that it is ludicrous to think nonviolence can defeat two ideologies (Nazis/Confederacy) who have only ever suffered serious setbacks as a direct result of violence, or the threat thereof. The counter protest in Boston didn’t work because it was nonviolent, it worked because they outnumbered the racists 4-1, and the racists knew they couldn’t gain pull their antics without suffering actual injury to themselves. So when our side condemns the tactics of wearing masks and minor property damage when the other side is literally killing us with impunity and paid vacation, or getting pardoned even after conviction, THAT MAKES RACISTS FEEL SAFER.

233
I cannot.  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:39:55am
234
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:41:02am

re: #229 ObserverArt

This isn’t Joe’s song, but he made it so, at least to me.

And sometimes when I am bummed out, like I am a bit today, I’ll play this…

[Embedded content]

Yeah! That was my kid brother’s first favorite song.

235
stpaulbear  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:42:29am

re: #177 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

I’m at four out of five agencies in freezing my credit. I’m not sure what else there is to do besides pay attention.

What are the five agencies? I know about Transunion, Experion and Equifax, but what are the other two you contacted? How much are they charging to freeze your credit?

236
electrotek  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:42:49am
237
Belafon  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:43:04am

re: #232 Bass Reeves

The counter protest in Boston didn’t work because it was nonviolent, it worked because they outnumbered the racists 4-1, and the racists knew they couldn’t gain pull their antics without suffering actual injury to themselves.

And this is my point. They were worried about getting injured, but it was because of the overwhelming crowd, not Antifa. And while there are many things set up to protect people like Shapiro, what will scare them all is people.

Try this: If Antifa were the only people showing up, would anything at all change? If the mask wearing Antifa people don’t show up at mass rallies, are the Nazis going to be not scared?

And Antifa is in no way equal to the Malcom X and his groups. They got gun restrictions in CA. Antifa can’t get anything but headlines, which they’re stealing from others. (I know they protected some people in VA, but they’re not changing minds.)

238
Interesting Times  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:43:08am
239
stpaulbear  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:46:50am

re: #238 Interesting Times

andrew kaczynski 🤔 ✔ @KFILE
How is there literally a tweet for everything.

Because Donald has never known when to shut up?

240
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:48:03am

AAARRGGGHHHH!

241
Skip Intro  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:50:20am

re: #240 MsJ

AAARRGGGHHHH!

[Embedded content]

I would arrest his worthless ass if he ever stepped foot in Great Briton for encouraging violence against the police.

242
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:54:45am

re: #226 HappyWarrior

Well considering how few women Trump has in his cabinet, it’s a legitimate question. I don’t care what some has been VJ on FNC says.

What, you don’t think Omarosa Manigault would make a good National Security Council chief?

Liberals are the real misogynists!

243
Belafon  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:57:09am

The racism sign at the Red Sox game was done by wingers that like to pose as Antifa: dailykos.com.

244
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:57:59am

I need a break. Today is too insane. I am waiting for Andy’s final two tweets on HC. Then..I am going away.

245
I Would Prefer Not To  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:58:27am

Suggestion for band names part 452466: JOSE’S CONE OF UNCERTAINTY

Also I live in NYC in an area that is a flood zone.

246
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:58:28am

re: #209 MsJ

Andy Slavitt ✔ @ASlavitt
8/ NEWS this AM: Arizona has had $ moved to it and is now a new positive. All in order to get McCain of course.

Just wrote to Senator McCain based off this tweet.

Here is his contact page: https://contactsenators.com/arizona/john-mccain

Here is what I wrote in case it helps any others here with a little inspiration. I started by blowing some smoke up his butt.

Read if you like.

U8P7vfj9y1TqWbpGWlHtkhcPxe3U6SdpT73Wpwtro9aHTXYYs+vZeWrr4FL83dWLgex2ZP19sG9/HB6hrCbYvILEv39wkT4NUX/XihVj+sk8+9sMTbS+zlA7ayiGlCbJW6X5V4WcF72rBRxunnHq+AVFgzOWJvC/nDBaB+ji/iLVwBbGq/N9Ynh5gbFBGBw/nPOvYfIBDx6vA00CDSJCXEXH6ujxLrL/Bb8j5iXA1GmR43focWqE/j0a2xRaF4IIz4UG6Nc69KzyAOQDbJrTYGyP3kS5KVTS4chqTuSjyq9R/KUkzf0ORG6RUAP4vDEiiPigV1nTZu4+zOz/GKA60CaCn/b6hCE13IgMk4URBY/B2qfN2piGqKMa3MEMOXKxlGTdmQkFdML+RM9Hh1mGbzJMn+u+hRyCZneNGCV+IsIaYo6B0zOJrhQ/iZNX/VMsnOf9YvSwbRhVQ4gc+4HlT5ascgjftimqBQfdimeLuvTC/0LmdkingVgsTCDKqdx0FqSwdY6Fv976ThDlQRMj6G92s1xQkHbeEPQOkHrcHXj8gmO7OU/8BFM7tumF0wYhvrSKNbpprru7qBRePpRBuK2YRxZfqj6tCKH0U17p4RxyJGb0hvaEMVnKxo9bfNnFVSxKGkpDszoWQA4zWIHtH1ffOAVHG6Bcf/AS7l02EyW5H3V4jznYukkmm1+aRHpCc4wBZLWEy3mGCgUkyeYXjHVF+B9XFvHxxtOXtC/H2c3j+nTP1Y+4EHNnxyAv79tkPNrfBsNZ4qzH6MVUoMLfwCImF8OvR4qjJB89YUdu+zxaA/zjTqcnakdt3QOGLlNz2BSTEvRl0dXIbxtBfp3Xrm9YFN+6WFdze3vsQigP0xGkE97TSVT3F3FTQScnyLTY43SSTZh60D3PoK2FqVT8wV5HQpDc2377AJp24W1ExeDZPF8vZSbIPA5e0wx5C5uVayp766qfa/ixiRm2iy1f+t+rg4xM+V77+uVVXiCvGN3STGSh/N6LLf7LnvlLVm0dCsQjF8bgh4TUtJwuk+t/q4+BAswA0CpXX35BETVZdx2yICRhQAjX0aNUHOantxkgJYJZlKKszfbFqcNvy/QpnbGZ9mhTVmjHRVYGgGHI0/hWaeJxe9RkT3OeAnJRnevudk2urMDs5i5mv5CJkUrlzD9ocxWqG3dlyJnb0AnKyHt5q5zX0kI0PYb4cwrywaOwiSkERYqRq/FmNh+EuRbOkc0n4cMkcPh+hvMXVQaQ5YbH7JSIR7io0ngmRuCXhsPXiFTlt4RfKHodSIgMpsu6KfJFiXUCdDNq9DLm2xljftu/m5KmGc1Vr76gdG1TFiv/+lObvIExlddTAaJ3QQLxmFrdUTn6QMctGVKcap9OCjRY66YqV6PnhAEAtSiDqhsdNEGGxiswYvKrJXPutzanXnGvRhySJoUe8eiAViIojzNGvnN9fdYNTu5W8N9NvKDB4Gt/24GvLDZQHx1ndeswq6QKRsYQ0dKBGUCj3lemB8oMgyzYo2PE6lM4kefVfnwxMEBjEw2xjpULAAeIc9/ySRHaf2oErSzSLqVCz5ybtECH5wvPFE4pcmnpv5/uxCxvZYUMmsJ66fgDfU7lcU50Ozg4NmWetxqb9nNySbtr07N8Wh6KvhJAmlu0+1rLJx5fxjMLAq++TSVUAzz/DCa2accj0U9Gh7aBTxuTG+maDX24HAwE8hkhCkuP+dopvnmFK7TicD/YlpDoMxq/GqP3YbSCOtZeGH9yCuZHULozN+s5oybSCcJbd3GInm9qdihfL4OA17Zqbo8Y6w1DTI+BAz19107OcOyt587klUzHSBUg6msnuBEDz2d6JM1iUz9LCaPl/8mUYw+Yb7Yc1VPNKnlgh19iBUFVp/+8Rd+AXB5sbP/i+OoMDF5fnunQK1ecy48iGRWjjFRXD33I5nUQdCnkdEwAfzf7uaFqa9eMzwZwDw00oiNQv4k9nPLbieJf9JDW6hJRwcz3LG++P/QE9CRwB4nxsMOYFBDvEqwWhr2lqiucm6sqrqmDRQa6rHTfzL3zBU0ThyJnnWE7Y3ZPMWH3UdS8dSQRjjzC++Ik0r/uoZ9KuFTMHjpRChUcapBfWU85QjavaeEHEaKmSjqo3w29rrjHmDA4iudbmD2AgNjPdR8mO7BC+ESdsdmjGDj1slsJpLqmAuMRKMUH2COyPDc72SCauMMnuUFZnveiWDHwu8hWZyo6x/Kab0fi0zWLE1BaQiYOavpN3qMCu/1IkdbgqZqet2hqnkCpr7JqaZ6mtflOvmd5J3nxNJy+sSV2awSkpuFd7qmQwslyYMvkWMZcnb4lCI0mK/VZ9baYHzVwdOogmr4X7xUt5EXbaxcBv3c6c68pv92ocwjBJC0QlI7nnE8LN7a2rNR1tdS1h+eUWPWzmunupeQ8uqhpViFJ8ffYWGUB0pJAKwJU/1rJM7jamdn70D3yNa0VmIogjiT4S4JOFCv4y+R5VMnxnzLVT01SJut+mdBMd7abwJua4Bj4jLAlNra+ZooTYHl5q56mURelnqC/pM8Pyr6/HPbHiVcGxAI4/jXEk9NA0LZZIG/N8gRIbN0abAqn+DkvjbFWB0TrOoFclgDbh6Mv48GTe2Ts3G6fEFiJ55G2ieuTbcnzLWG3A8bW

247
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 9:59:54am

re: #210 Belafon

So, there are no Republican representatives in blue states?

Sure, doesn’t mean you can’t hate them. Look how often they work as a group, speak as a group. There are very few individuals in that party.

248
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:00:00am

And here are those two. See ya all latah.

249
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:00:20am

re: #237 Belafon

(cut)

And Antifa is in no way equal to the Malcom X and his groups. They got gun restrictions in CA. Antifa can’t get anything but headlines, which they’re stealing from others. (I know they protected some people in VA, but they’re not changing minds.)

Gun restrictions came about from African-Americans exercising their open-carry rights under California law. Ronald Reagan couldn’t sign the Mulford Act fast enough to end that.

250
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:00:53am

re: #244 MsJ

Does Alex realize that a good many Libertarians are open borders? Not all, mind you, but quite a few of them are.

251
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:04:03am

re: #245 I Would Prefer Not To

Suggestion for band names part 452466: JOSE’S CONE OF UNCERTAINTY

Also I live in NYC in an area that is a flood zone.

Keep an eye to the south, and do what I suggested my brother-in-law (Houston) and my son (Jacksonville) do:

If the storm continues to move in your direction, move your keepsakes and irreplaceable items as high in your home as you can. It might be a lot of work for nothing if the storm doesn’t come near, but if it does, you won’t have time to move your irreplaceable property to save it.

Let’s hope that José recurves back out over the open ocean.

252
Citizen K  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:04:22am

re: #249 Anymouse 🌹

Gun restrictions came about from African-Americans exercising their open-carry rights under California law. Ronald Reagan couldn’t sign the Mulford Act fast enough to end that.

Half the reason MLK was successful as he was was because he could point to the more extreme groups, sympathize with their goals if not their tactics, and tell white folks ‘You can deal with us, who are willing to talk if approached like human beings…or you can deal with the language of the unheard’.

253
Weaselone  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:05:08am

re: #246 ObserverArt

How exactly does Arizona have money moved to it? Isn’t that the sort of thing that could subject the bill to legal challenges?

254
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:06:46am

re: #244 MsJ

Infowars endrosing the Rock for office?

What the fuck?

255
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:07:43am

Tropical Storm (soon to be Hurricane) José isn’t the only thing to worry about out there. (The Air Force is flying out now to José to see if it is now a hurricane.)

nhc.noaa.gov

A disturbance halfway across the Atlantic has a 90% chance of becoming a tropical cyclone within five days, and another disturbance near the Cape Verde Islands should become a tropical storm today.

256
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:09:04am

re: #244 MsJ

I need a break. Today is too insane. I am waiting for Andy’s final two tweets on HC. Then..I am going away.

[Embedded content]

Haha

257
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:10:10am

re: #253 Weaselone

How exactly does Arizona have money moved to it? Isn’t that the sort of thing that could subject the bill to legal challenges?

The point of the bill (aside from ending Medicaid) is to change they payout system from a per-person system to a block grant to the states.

Since it is a bill, the only legal challenge it can get is from Congress. Should it become law, then it would depend on whether a case against its constitutionality can be made.

258
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:11:53am

re: #253 Weaselone

How exactly does Arizona have money moved to it? Isn’t that the sort of thing that could subject the bill to legal challenges?

It is part of the block grants they are giving to states to help pay for each state’s own way of dealing with state Medicaid coverage, exchanges, etc.

Yeah, it does seem to be sleazy, but I doubt it is really illegal. These are Republicans, they seem to be able to do what the hell they want since America gave them full control of the government.

259
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:12:01am

re: #237 Belafon

And this is my point. They were worried about getting injured, but it was because of the overwhelming crowd, not Antifa. And while there are many things set up to protect people like Shapiro, what will scare them all is people.

Try this: If Antifa were the only people showing up, would anything at all change? If the mask wearing Antifa people don’t show up at mass rallies, are the Nazis going to be not scared?

And Antifa is in no way equal to the Malcom X and his groups. They got gun restrictions in CA. Antifa can’t get anything but headlines, which they’re stealing from others. (I know they protected some people in VA, but they’re not changing minds.)

A bunch of people standing around aren’t actually scary if there is no threat of violence. Antifa has not shown anything near the capacity for violence of the Black Panthers, yet they still scared the alt-right enough to shut down at least two rallies since Charlottesville.

Real talk: White Supremacists were not scared at Charlottesville. They were scared in Boston. They were scared in Berkeley. Black Panthers (not a Malcom X group) ended up getting gun laws changed in CA because that was part of the system continuing to perpetuate racism.

An 8 year old boy was lynched, and law enforcement is trying to protect the futures of the perpetrators. It is the second lynching of a pre-teen in two years. Yet (even in this community, which I very much enjoy) more time is spent on how Antifa is unhelpful to the cause than on how we still have lynchings in 2016 and 2017 in America. Do y’all not realize how safe it is to be a white supremacist in America right now? Literally the last KKK member I heard of being seriously harmed was killed by his own family.

I agree belafon, that Antifa is not that much of a threat. So why are we reacting like they are the next iteration of leftist terrorism? Because we’re trying to distance ourselves to curry favor with white supremacists? We’re too civilized to throw down on people whose stated goal is the elimination of whatever minority they deem not useful?

260
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:12:38am

re: #249 Anymouse

Gun restrictions came about from African-Americans exercising their open-carry rights under California law. Ronald Reagan couldn’t sign the Mulford Act fast enough to end that.

The end of open carry. The other 999 California gun control laws (it seems) are of varying and sometimes dubious origin.

261
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:13:28am

Trump isn’t good for Republicans.
Trump isn’t good for Democrats.

Trump is only good for himself and other people named Trump.

And the sooner congress puts him out on his ass, the better off we’ll be.

262
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:13:49am

Apparently hunting season for something opened up here today: There is a whole bunch of gunfire coming from the river.

263
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:14:44am

re: #254 Eclectic Cyborg

Infowars endrosing the Rock for office?

What the fuck?

Fuck the Rock.

What is he going to do, raise an eyebrow to show his concern.

Fuck actors and other popular people that are not politicians. My God, hasn’t St. Reagan and Donny Trumpfffft been enough of an example.

And with that, I am out. Got stuff to do, and reading all of this is not helping my head.

Arrrrgh!

264
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:16:31am

re: #263 ObserverArt

To be fair Arnold Schwarzenegger did an okay job as CA Governor didn’t he?

Also, Al franken.

265
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:18:51am

re: #264 Eclectic Cyborg

To be fair Arnold Schwarzenegger did an okay job as CA Governor didn’t he?

Also, Al franken.

Most Californians I know don’t speak highly as him as governor. As for Franken, he’s also someone who went to Harvard and graduated with a degree in poli sci.

266
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:21:30am

re: #263 ObserverArt

Fuck the Rock.

What is he going to do, raise an eyebrow to show his concern.

Fuck actors and other popular people that are not politicians. My God, hasn’t St. Reagan and Donny Trumpfffft been enough of an example.

And with that, I am out. Got stuff to do, and reading all of this is not helping my head.

Arrrrgh!

I have no idea who that guy is. Probably better for me that way. I’m certain I have more political experience than he does, anyway.

On the question of “he’s an outsider and I want to shake up Washington,” I don’t want an electrician doing my neurological examinations, a software engineer fixing my shotgun (or a gunsmith fixing my computer), &c. Like any other job, I want my political representatives and apointees to work their way up the ladder and learn how to be politicians. Even local politics is hard. National politicians can ruin our nation if they don’t know what they’re doing.

We know Mr. Trump listens to Alex Jones’s show. This might be Mr. Jones’s way of reminding Mr. Trump what the GOP’s voters voted for.

267
Unshaken Defiance  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:22:03am

re: #139 ObserverArt

I’m waiting for them to turn this into a teaching moment for America’s youth. They will use that kid as an example of a future business leader and how he could start his own all White lawn maintenance company. If you get my drift…

Anyone ask why he is not in school getting STEM lessons? WTF

268
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:22:10am

re: #264 Eclectic Cyborg

To be fair Arnold Schwarzenegger did an okay job as CA Governor didn’t he?

Also, Al franken.

Arnold was okay on some things, yeah. But As an Ohioan, I’ll let others more familiar with him as Governor address that.

Al Franken to me is different. Sure he was on TV, but not a major star.

Also…I was addressing popular figures as Presidents. Your examples were a Governor and a Senator.

At least if they had run or do run, they would have at least some experience. Hell St. Ron had some experience too, but he used his popularity to slide a lot of crap past people. That is my fear with popular people. It helps lead to cult-like status…say like Trump.

Okay…out!

269
Eclectic Cyborg  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:22:48am

re: #268 ObserverArt

Ah, missed the President bit. My bad.

270
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:23:00am

I’m with OA. I’m sick of people who have no idea how government works just using their celebrity to get office. Anyhow I don’t dislike the Rock as a person but I hope like hell he has the good sense not to run.

271
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:23:33am

I must admit, lately I have to reach up to make sure I haven’t grown a fro with a black power afro pick sticking out of it. I’m not rolling around my neighborhood with a shotgun and a leather jacket, I’m just saying that the reflexive automatic condemnation of actual disturbance is aggravating and (to me) betrays both history AND the actual current situation.

272
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:24:06am

re: #265 HappyWarrior

Most Californians I know don’t speak highly as him as governor. As for Franken, he’s also someone who went to Harvard and graduated with a degree in poli sci.

At least the Governator understands that anthropogenic climate change is a real thing, and worked then (and is working now) to try to get conservatives to understand the problem.

(My sister despised him when he was Governor of California, but she does respect his views toward science—he isn’t a wingnut who thinks God is going to fix everything.)

273
Joe Bacon 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:24:43am

re: #264 Eclectic Cyborg

To be fair Arnold Schwarzenegger did an okay job as CA Governor didn’t he?

Also, Al franken.

No. The Asshole Steroid Junky was the worst Governor we ever had! Asshole Ah-Nold let the red ink flow like the dam was broke. He forced State disability claim workers to take a furlough one day a week and drove claim processing times go through the roof.

And he let the Enron manipulators off the hook. Fuck him!

274
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:25:14am

re: #272 Anymouse 🌹

At least the Governator understands that anthropogenic climate change is a real thing, and worked then (and is working now) to try to get conservatives to understand the problem.

(My sister despised him when he was Governor of California, but she does respect his views toward science—he isn’t a wingnut who thinks God is going to fix everything.)

No argument there.

275
ObserverArt  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:25:15am

re: #269 Eclectic Cyborg

Ah, missed the President bit. My bad.

No problem. And I am just a little flummoxed as it were with today’s politics so I a may not be too clear on some of my comments.

276
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:26:47am

This will be my first time calling our Governor.

277
William Lewis  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:29:39am

YES!!! They coughed up the unused vacation pay!

Happy dance time.

278
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:29:56am

re: #266 Anymouse 🌹

I have no problem if Mr. Johnson (the Rock) wants to run for elected office; in fact, I would encourage him to do so. He should start at his local level - perhaps get elected to his city council, or if he’s feeling particularly ambitious, he can go for mayor. And he can work his way up from there.

That’s how it goes. The people who don’t like this fact are, I’ve found, often of the “burn it all down!!” variety.

279
Backwoods_Sleuth  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:30:46am

even though the Brits told the WH to shut up…

280
Stanley Sea  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:33:08am

re: #277 William Lewis

YES!!! They coughed up the unused vacation pay!

Happy dance time.

HOO RAY!!

281
Big Beautiful Door  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:35:27am

re: #126 ObserverArt

Just spent my morning writing my favorite Senator Rob Portman about this new attempt to mess up health insurance with the Graham-Cassidy-Heller Non-Healthcare Act.
Next up: Mitch McConnell.

I’m pissed!!!

And it is Friday. No one should be pissed on a Friday. WTF!

I won’t bother with McConnell; he’s a lost cause. I’ll be calling Rand Paul to tell him to vote no on Obamacare lite.

282
electrotek  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:37:47am
283
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:39:01am

re: #166 Belafon

Just a question: What effective change does Antifa represent?

Antifa represents mob rule.

284
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:41:12am

re: #283 Nyet

Well…that is a new one for me. I’m interested in your take.

285
sagehen  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:41:32am

re: #127 Anymouse 🌹

As for trauma centres in sparsely-populated states, I guess agricultural work accident victims should just suck it up (trauma is one of the principal injuries in agriculture). Of course we never have car wrecks out here either (better wreck your car in LA or New York, rural folks).

The difference between a trauma center and a regular ER only makes a difference if the EMT’s get to you within 10 minutes of the incident, and have you in the OR within 20 minutes of that. In a big city trauma center, that’s 3-4 cases every week. In Wyoming or Montana or the Dakotas, it’s unlikely to be twice a year.

Thresher accidents and bull-gorings are very sad, but after 40 minutes a trauma center can’t do anything different than an ordinary emergency room. The extra staff, extra training and extra machines are cost-effective only if there’s a million people within the 10-minute radius.

286
Big Beautiful Door  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:42:16am

re: #192 HappyWarrior

I can’t say I blame you. We’re at an important moment in our history. We have a long way to go and I’m afraid we’ve made huge steps backwards.

Many civilizations have collapsed in the past. If ours does in this century, future historians will mark this year as the date that the fall began in earnest.

287
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:42:45am

The GOP will never give up on zombie Trumpcare.

All they want are tax cuts for the rich, and this is the method they’ve chosen. Destroy health coverage for tens of millions of people. Every prior iteration failed on the basic math, and this isn’t any different. In some respects, this is even more craven, because they’re taking money from states that have been most willing to expand coverage to give a portion to those that didn’t expand coverage at all, while pocketing the balance in the form of tax cuts to millionaires.

288
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:43:24am
289
Big Beautiful Door  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:46:31am

re: #222 Dragonomics

Nobody can “dump” ESPN. The cable/satellite companies would have to dump ESPN, and they won’t. It would force ESPN’s hand to go streaming, and with that, the package deal business model dies as would numerous useless garbage channels.

I already get ESPN through the SlingTV streaming service.

290
Dragonomics  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:47:12am

Germany, 2008… neo-nazi trash plans to violently attack punk rock show where I am in attendance. Antifa repels the bastards and police arrest the bastards. Antifa was a force for good that day.

291
Dragonomics  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:48:50am

re: #289 Big Beautiful Door

Maybe the end of bundles is nigher than I knew.

292
Belafon  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:49:57am

I know I complain about Antifa here. But, if they are ever brought up outside of here, (I hope) my response will be something like the following:

Here’s what I think of Antifa. You know that man who ran over the woman in Charlottesville? That wasn’t Antifa, that was a white supremacist. You know the men who beat that black man in Charlottesville? That wasn’t Antifa, those were white supremacists. You know the cops that keep getting off for killing blacks, even when we know they planted evidence? That wasn’t Antifa. Yeah, they may have broken some stuff, but they have protected people - once again in Charlottesville - and broken things are kind of tiny on the scale of life.

They’re a bit like the dickish brother who helps you with jobs like pruning trees.

293
lawhawk  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:52:45am

re: #288 JordanRules

There’s a military response for everything out there. Hate how another country acts? War.
Hate their economic policy? War.

War is the last resort precisely because it is so terrible and costly.

Going to war with North Korea opens a can of worms none of the nitwits in the Trump WH can even begin to comprehend.

Trump thinks using nukes is okay and wonders why we haven’t used them elsewhere. A nuclear exchange against North Korea is likely to irradiate two of our closest trading partners/allies (South Korea, Japan), and depending on which way the wind blows, could also affect China, Vietnam, and the US itself downwind. North Korea could also chuck nukes at South Korea or Japan and even if they don’t hit their intended targets, could do incalculable damage.

Trump’s all in on that and thinks his bluster and tough talk will deter Jong Un. The problem is Jong Un knows how to play crazy than Trump. Trump doesn’t know when bluster equals BS, and thinks that if he blusters enough he’ll win.

So far, Jong Un keeps getting the better of him. Red lines have been crossed. Launching IRBMs have crossed those lines.
Testing a nuclear weapon with a purported yield of 250kt is a major leap forward for North Korea. All of this is happening within the span of months with Trump. There’s no one else to blame here.

And it’s important to note that Iran’s been sidelined by the 6 party deal, which Trump wants to shred. If that were to happen, Iran would be following behind North Korea in short order. The reason North Korea isn’t constrained is because we couldn’t get to a Six Party-type deal there.

294
danarchy  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:54:53am

re: #290 Dragonomics

Germany, 2008… neo-nazi trash plans to violently attack punk rock show where I am in attendance. Antifa repels the bastards and police arrest the bastards. Antifa was a force for good that day.

In 2017 Antifa protested at the G20 meeting in Germany. There were fires and looting and over 200 injured police. Antifa was a force for evil that day.

295
Shropshire Slasher  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:55:04am

re: #243 Belafon

The racism sign at the Red Sox game was done by wingers that like to pose as Antifa: dailykos.com.

Not an accurate portrayal:

There were also mixed signals over who had hung the banner. A group calling itself “Boston Antifa” had quickly claimed responsibility on social media, but many have pegged their accounts as a parody of the larger antifascist movement.

296
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:56:51am

re: #278 Dr Lizardo

I have no problem if Mr. Johnson (the Rock) wants to run for elected office; in fact, I would encourage him to do so. He should start at his local level - perhaps get elected to his city council, or if he’s feeling particularly ambitious, he can go for mayor. And he can work his way up from there.

That’s how it goes. The people who don’t like this fact are, I’ve found, often of the “burn it all down!!” variety.

Yup. A lot of such people who aim for a high office (such as the speculation of Mark Zuckerberg considering a shot at President) seem to fall into only a few categories:

a) How hard can it be? I already do (name a hard job).
b) I know more about subject X than politician Y

For the most part, I don’t think a person running for office is specifically looking to ruin the office or government, that person just overestimates his or her abilities.

Political parties need privates as well as generals. I know my capabilities, and I don’t think I would make a good senator or representative without a lot more experience. (There are a lot of things you can’t learn about those jobs unless you hold them, but you should have some knowledge about the office you seek.)

I knew what a village board (city councilmember) was required to do before I ran in the special election here in 2012 to replace a deceased board member. I’d been to every board meeting since I moved here, I knew the basic issues people in town wanted addressed.

The same applied when I became chair pro-tempore (analogous to vice-mayor).

I wouldn’t think of starting out thinking “how hard can state governor be?” when the largest organisation I ever ran before was a large aviation electronics shop in the Navy.

There isn’t a “Presidenting for Dummies” book. The job is uniquely difficult.

That said, if Donald Trump was willing to accept advice from anyone other than his loyal sycophants, he has five previous presidents he could ask for advice or guidance. I have no doubt that any one of the five would be more than happy to help him if he asked for that. He seems to be proud of his ignorance about the job.

Some sixty million American are fine with that.

Mr. Trump is who he is, and they said “that’s the guy for me.”

I didn’t know a whole lot about him other than knowing he ran once before as a vanity project, and he once had a television show I’d never seen. I was entirely unaware of things such as his bankruptcies or his treatment of contractors and those he does business with.

But I was aware he had diddly for experience in any level of governance. That single fact was enough for me to reject him, even not knowing what I know now about him.

What is it about business owners who seem to think they can just jump into a political position (aside from the grift for their fortunes)? Running government is not like running a business, no matter how many times conservatives say it is.

Politicians at any level of governance have to be able to identify the issues, relate those to their constituents, find qualified people who can help them formulate and implement policy, work toward some sort of consensus with other politicians that may have different ideas: In short, everything a business owner doesn’t have to do.

Donald Trump never had to do any of those things (Mark Zuckerberg never did either). A business owner says “this is what we’re going to do” and that’s what happens. Government never works like that.

297
Big Beautiful Door  Sep 15, 2017 • 10:56:59am

re: #291 Dragonomics

Maybe the end of bundles is nigher than I knew.

Cable is dead. Long live cable! You will be getting bundles through internet streaming services, and the internet providers are basically the same companies that wired your house for cable.

298
Dragonomics  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:00:00am

re: #294 danarchy

Maybe so. There were also fascist members in attendance at the G20 from Russia and the USA. German Antifa is extra sensitive where the rise of fascism is concerned. For some reason.

299
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:00:54am

Thank God the Antifa is around to protect everyone from disabled old people and nerds with free speech signs.

300
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:02:49am

re: #299 Nyet

You um…forgot about Heather Heyer already, eh? What about Deandre Harris? Doesn’t ring a bell?

301
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:03:42am

re: #300 Bass Reeves

Eh?

302
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:04:19am

Still no reply from my sister, the one who posted that HRC’s book blamed everyone but herself and to whom I said, “You’ve read her book then? Great! Send it to me!”

So I went out last night and bought a copy.

Also bought Al Franken’s book, Naomi Klein’s book, and ‘Hyperbole and a Half’. This is my first time in a bookstore (the local Barnes and Noble) in probably at least a year. Sure, it was a Thursday night after 8 PM, but the place was EMPTY! At least 4 clerks asked me if I was finding everything.

Is it just the timing? Or is it really THAT BAD in the retail, Brick And Mortar world? If The Older Boy was still dating the woman who worked at Williams Sonoma, I’d feel compelled to go buy something.

303
Citizen K  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:06:05am

People have to understand with Antifa is that it’s not an overarching organization, and in some cases, it’s not even really a “movement”. It’s a generalized banner, in the same vein somewhat as BLM or Occupy. Which unfortunately means that anyone’s free to pick it up, and some who do are a lot more irresponsible with the banner than the general whole might be. Unfortunately, like Occupy (and not quite so with BLM), Black Bloc morons have been the types most eager to pick up the banner and use it as an excuse rather than really stepping up. Which is why you have Antifa folks being credited in Charlottesville in protecting fellow counter-protestors, while others carrying the same banner are assaulting journalists and breaking windows like idiots (and protest movements in general on the West Coast seem to have a long standing problem with Black Bloc-ers co-opting).

304
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:06:54am

re: #297 Big Beautiful Door

Cable is dead. Long live cable! You will be getting bundles through internet streaming services, and the internet providers are basically the same companies that wired your house for cable.

Well, I’m safe then, since there isn’t any cable service for dozens of miles in any direction. /s

I’m beholden to my telephone company. My telephone bill would only be about one-sixth what I pay now if I didn’t have Internet service.

305
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:07:34am

re: #303 Citizen K

The thing the Right has come to understand about antifa is that it is useful to paint anyone who is anti-fascist as antifa so that their “both sides” argument seems less ludicrous.

306
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:07:56am

re: #293 lawhawk

Hillary addressed this well on Maddow last night.

And I know I’m preaching to the choir. Of course she did, because she’s Presidential! She did not mince words about the risks this regime poses (that would be the US regime, not North Korea, heh).

307
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:08:55am

re: #301 Nyet

I guess, my point is, however large a group of numpties you consider Antifa, the people they are opposing have a pretty impressive body count for old people and nerds.

308
Dragonomics  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:09:51am

re: #303 Citizen K

This is true. I’ve been familiar with Antifa since 2006. They put on shows, operate squats, run record labels and range from pacifists to shit kickers.

309
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:10:11am

re: #307 Bass Reeves

I guess, my point is, however large a group of numpties you consider Antifa, the people they are opposing have a pretty impressive body count for old people and nerds.

I’m not sure your point is in any way related to mine.

310
BeachDem  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:11:20am

Mnuchin’s latest explanation/excuse for taking a government plane to KY on the day of the eclipse is even more ridiculous than his bullshit about asking for a plane for his honeymoon.

‘You know, people in Kentucky took this stuff very serious,” Mnuchin said at an event hosted by Politico. “Being a New Yorker … I was like, the eclipse? Really? I don’t have any interest in watching the eclipse.’”

Such. An. Asshole.

311
Hecuba's daughter  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:12:59am

re: #302 Blind Frog Belly White

Still no reply from my sister, the one who posted that HRC’s book blamed everyone but herself and to whom I said, “You’ve read her book then? Great! Send it to me!”

So I went out last night and bought a copy.

Also bought Al Franken’s book, Naomi Klein’s book, and ‘Hyperbole and a Half’. This is my first time in a bookstore (the local Barnes and Noble) in probably at least a year. Sure, it was a Thursday night after 8 PM, but the place was EMPTY! At least 4 clerks asked me if I was finding everything.

Is it just the timing? Or is it really THAT BAD in the retail, Brick And Mortar world? If The Older Boy was still dating the woman who worked at Williams Sonoma, I’d feel compelled to go buys something.

I fear that Amazon will be the death of book stores. Unlike clothing, where certain die hards (like me!) insist on trying on the merchandise before purchasing, there is typically no need to go to a book store to sample the wares; fewer people are reading and, of those that do, most get recommendations from others. It’s far simple to order online than to drive several miles, park, find the book(s), and then potentially wait in line. You do have the advantage that if the book is in stock, you can get a copy immediately. But that is irrelevant if you are using a Kindle or iPad to read anyway.

—minor edit

312
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:13:34am
313
BeachDem  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:13:35am

re: #306 JordanRules

Hillary addressed this well on Maddow last night.

And I know I’m preaching to the choir. Of course she did, because she’s Presidential! She did not mince words about the risks this regime poses (that would be the US regime, not North Korea, heh).

I started her book last night. Only 50 pages in and I’ve already laughed, cried and found myself liking her more than I already did (which was a lot.)

314
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:14:24am

re: #311 Hecuba’s daughter

Well, Powell’s Books in Portland, OR seems to be doing well. They’ve been there forever. And it’s enormous - the bookstore is an entire city block.

315
Belafon  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:14:27am

re: #302 Blind Frog Belly White

Still no reply from my sister, the one who posted that HRC’s book blamed everyone but herself and to whom I said, “You’ve read her book then? Great! Send it to me!”

So I went out last night and bought a copy.

Also bought Al Franken’s book, Naomi Klein’s book, and ‘Hyperbole and a Half’. This is my first time in a bookstore (the local Barnes and Noble) in probably at least a year. Sure, it was a Thursday night after 8 PM, but the place was EMPTY! At least 4 clerks asked me if I was finding everything.

Is it just the timing? Or is it really THAT BAD in the retail, Brick And Mortar world? If The Older Boy was still dating the woman who worked at Williams Sonoma, I’d feel compelled to go buy something.

Some of it’s timing. Sometimes I go into the BN near me and it’s empty, sometimes I’m dodging people. BN has done a fairly decent job of bridging the physical-internet divide so they’re surviving.

316
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:15:15am

re: #311 Hecuba’s daughter

I fear that Amazon will be the death of book stores.

Maybe, but I still like getting books from the library for free.

317
HappyWarrior  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:15:40am

re: #312 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

JFC.

318
Belafon  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:16:06am

re: #316 The Vicious Babushka

Maybe, but I still like getting books from the library for free.

The Koch’s are trying to take care of that.

319
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:16:13am

re: #309 Nyet

Maybe you could make your point in something more than a sentence? I must have missed the nuance due to your distillation.

Thank God the Antifa is around to protect everyone from disabled old people and nerds with free speech signs.

To me, that was a sardonic statement explaining you consider the people the Antifa are opposing currently consist of disabled old people and nerds with free speech signs (harmless). I was merely pointing out the people Antifa are opposing (regardless of what you think of Antifa’s tactics) are actually killing people, or attempting to, on a regular basis. Possibly, I am an unintentional victim of your pithiness. It has happened before, I’m sure it will happen again.

320
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:16:18am

re: #313 BeachDem

I’m looking forward to reading it!

I had so many feelings racing through me watching the interview last night. Whew.

Long live bookstores!!!!

321
BeachDem  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:18:21am

HuffPo Main:

U.K. TO TRUMP: STFU

322
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:19:13am

re: #320 JordanRules

I’m looking forward to reading it!

I had so many feelings racing through me watching the interview last night. Whew.

Long live bookstores!!!!

It’s a good read, and completely unlike what those who haven’t read it (like, say, my sister) say it is.

Yes, you will end up liking her more, but really she’s who I always thought she was, and frankly I’ve always liked her. Which is why it burns my biscuits that saying you never liked her is some kind of badge of honor on the Left. WTF is wrong with people?

323
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:19:34am

re: #171 MsJ

If Antifa is initiating violence, I condemn them for doing that. If they are protecting anti-racist protesters, I have zero problems if any violence attributable to them is in self defense.

To the best of my knowledge, zero people have been killed by Antifa. Can’t say the same for White Supremacists.

324
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:21:18am

re: #323 Patricia Kayden

If Antifa is initiating violence, I condemn them for doing that. If they are protecting anti-racist protesters, I have zero problems if any violence attributable to them is in self defense.

To the best of my knowledge, zero people have been killed by Antifa. Can’t say the same for White Supremacists.

and that is the one bit of the “both sides” argument that no amount of spin doctoring will remove…until someone’s death or injury can be attributed to someone connected with antifa, and then we will never hear the end of it…

325
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:21:18am

re: #290 Dragonomics

Germany, 2008… neo-nazi trash plans to violently attack punk rock show where I am in attendance. Antifa repels the bastards and police arrest the bastards. Antifa was a force for good that day.

That perfectly sums up why I have no problem with Antifa. They do good by repelling and violently opposing White Supremacists.

326
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:22:38am

re: #312 JordanRules

[Embedded content]

Just suspended??

327
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:22:53am

re: #326 Patricia Kayden

Yup!!!!!

328
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:23:28am

re: #308 Dragonomics

This is true. I’ve been familiar with Antifa since 2006. They put on shows, operate squats, run record labels and range from pacifists to shit kickers.

A great number of conservative politicians will do that with any group they don’t like.

A huge number of people still seem to think that “liberal” means hippie, anti-American, welfare recipient, anti-religious, all out to grab everyone’s guns, &c.

Are some liberals non-religious? Sure. The Democratic Party is a lot more welcoming of the non-religious, though the overwhelming majority of it’s members are religious. Do some liberals want heavy restrictions (or even bans) on guns? Yes, some do.

It is much easier to strawman all liberals with the ideas of those who are at the margin however.

The old political rule of “if you’re explaining, you’re losing” applies. If conservatives can get liberals lost in the weeds trying to explain the difference between property-destroying jerks and a larger movement fighting against authoritarianism, then liberals are losing that political discussion.

If conservatives can conflate “property damage” with “violence,” then they can paint everyone involved as “violent” and that discussion is lost in the weeds as well.

The best response I can think of for protesters is to quickly identify those who would stir up trouble and out them to the police. People show up in masks or whatnot, eject them.

Millions showed up for the Women’s March, the March for Science, and in protest against fascists/racists around the nation without any violence.

The press isn’t helping here: a burning car makes good visuals for television. Protests need to be organised and work with local authorities so such people can be rousted out of a protest before such things happen. The Women’s March was peaceful precisely because of organisation and relations with local police.

329
stpaulbear  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:23:59am

re: #302 Blind Frog Belly White

Still no reply from my sister, the one who posted that HRC’s book blamed everyone but herself and to whom I said, “You’ve read her book then? Great! Send it to me!”

So I went out last night and bought a copy.

Also bought Al Franken’s book, Naomi Klein’s book, and ‘Hyperbole and a Half’. This is my first time in a bookstore (the local Barnes and Noble) in probably at least a year. Sure, it was a Thursday night after 8 PM, but the place was EMPTY! At least 4 clerks asked me if I was finding everything.

Is it just the timing? Or is it really THAT BAD in the retail, Brick And Mortar world? If The Older Boy was still dating the woman who worked at Williams Sonoma, I’d feel compelled to go buy something.

I’ll say from my own experience that I’ve been ordering too much stuff on-line from companies that have b&m stores nearby. I’m feeling guilty about it and trying to support the actual store more often (although I bought my Hillary book on-line). I mentioned to the manager of a local Petco that I was buying food on-line and he politely asked that I consider coming to the store instead. It’s hard to beat the convenience of buying on-line but it’s also good to get out of the house more often. I’m lucky that the Barnes & Noble near me is one of their largest stores with a great music department.

330
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:26:51am

re: #318 Belafon

The Koch’s are trying to take care of that.

They can’t have our public library. We won’t let ‘em. Phhhht.

331
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:27:44am

re: #328 Anymouse 🌹

I will never forget this silly display by the press.

Grasping for Metaphor, Reporters Flock to Burning DC Garbage Can
washingtonian.com

332
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:27:57am

re: #319 Bass Reeves

What some of the people antifa are opposing are doing is truly neither here, nor there. They don’t get brownie points for opposing bad guys among others.

My point wasn’t that the people the antifa have abused consist of elderly disable people and nerds with signs. It was that they include those people.

That’s quite aside from the mob rule issue. No, vigilantes don’t get to abuse the far-right who haven’t first abused them (i.e. not as a matter of self-defense). I say that as someone who supports hate speech laws and thinks that the state should put people in prison for the more extreme racist propaganda.

There was this Russian neo-Nazi, Tesak, who publicly abused men wanting to sleep with male minors (which would include pedo- and ephebophiles). His videos used to be quite popular in Russia. In the West it was recognized that such mob “justice” is sick, regardless of the fact that most of Tesak’s adult victims might actually deserve to be in prison.

333
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:30:54am

re: #332 Nyet

What are you talking about when you refer to “mob justice” in context of Antifa? When and how has Antifa engaged in “mob justice”? They oppose White Supremacists and act violently in self defense which is perfectly fine.

334
FormerDirtDart  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:31:37am
335
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:32:04am

re: #329 stpaulbear

I’ll say from my own experience that I’ve been ordering too much stuff on-line from companies that have b&m stores nearby. I’m feeling guilty about it and trying to support the actual store more often (although I bought my Hillary book on-line). I mentioned to the manager of a local Petco that I was buying food on-line and he politely asked that I consider coming to the store instead. It’s hard to beat the convenience of buying on-line but it’s also good to get out of the house more often. I’m lucky that the Barnes & Noble near me is one of their largest stores with a great music department.

Interestingly, one of the reasons my sister gives for hating Hillary Clinton is that she was on the board of Walmart, which, she claimed, ‘killed her hometown’, which is funny because the last time I was in our hometown, you couldn’t buy a parking space near the Square for love or money.

We on the Left tend to bitch and moan about how Walmart and other Big Box Stores killed Mom and Pop stores, but then we all go gaga for things like Amazon and Uber and such that just as surely kill off lots of B&M stores and jobs, etc. I read the other day that lots of taxi drivers in NYC spent years saving up enough, and borrowing money to buy a license, which Uber is rendering worthless.

But Uber is cool, trendy, hip, etc.

336
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:34:41am

re: #335 Blind Frog Belly White

Funny you should mention Uber - the taxi drivers in Prague are livid at Uber operating there. Now in this case, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for Prague’s taxi drivers, as their well-deserved infamy for being rip-off artists of the highest order is European-wide.

If you’re ever in Prague, never take a taxi. They’ll rob you blind.

337
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:34:48am

re: #333 Patricia Kayden

What are you talking about when you refer to “mob justice” in context of Antifa? When and how has Antifa engaged in “mob justice”? They oppose White Supremacists and act violently in self defense which is perfectly fine.

If they only acted in self-defense we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

338
JordanRules  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:36:45am

They just don’t give a damn and essentially do whatever they please.

339
The Vicious Babushka  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:37:33am

re: #336 Dr Lizardo

Funny you should mention Uber - the taxi drivers in Prague are livid at Uber operating there. Now in this case, I don’t have a lot of sympathy for Prague’s taxi drivers, as their well-deserved infamy for being rip-off artists of the highest order is European-wide.

If you’re ever in Prague, never take a taxi. They’ll rob you blind.

When we stayed in Prague two years ago, we booked an apartment from AirBnB and the landlady sent a car to pick us up at the airport and take us back to the airport because she didn’t want us to be ripped off taking a taxi anywhere.

340
CongoJack  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:39:03am

re: #294 danarchy

In 2017 Antifa protested at the G20 meeting in Germany. There were fires and looting and over 200 injured police. Antifa was a force for evil that day.

I believe you are confusing antifa with anarchists.

341
allegro  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:40:24am

Meeting Overlord demands…. or how I spent my week and most of my pension check for this month:

Since my motorhome windshield generates pizza oven level heat in the summer, I had it covered inside with that bubble/foil insulation stuff and just kept the drapes closed. My TV was centered, sitting on the fireplace in front of the drapes. I could not keep the kittens out of there - they pretty much tore up the insulation and were close to taking out ALL of my sound system wiring and the TV. It was a matter of solving the problem or saying goodbye to the now 3 month old kittens.

Looking at the space through kitten eyes I had to admit that if I was a cat that’s where I would want to hang out too. Several hundred dollars later for an external windshield cover, a ceiling TV mount in the corner and hiring a guy to do the installations with the addition of a faux grass rug runner that I cut to fit the space, Princess Onyx and Little Lord Storm now have their own “room”. Peace and harmony now once again rule at Casa Allegro. :)

342
Dr Lizardo  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:40:28am

re: #339 The Vicious Babushka

When we stayed in Prague two years ago, we booked an apartment from AirBnB and the landlady sent a car to pick us up at the airport and take us back to the airport because she didn’t want us to be ripped off taking a taxi anywhere.

And that was very nice of her. I learned my lesson back in 2001 when I got charged the equivalent of $75 for a four kilometer trip.

Never again.

The problem is legendary. The former Mayor of Prague once went incognito, posing as a tourist, and noted that all four taxi trips he took over the course of a day, he was overcharged on average 250%.

343
stpaulbear  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:41:26am

re: #335 Blind Frog Belly White

Interestingly, one of the reasons my sister gives for hating Hillary Clinton is that she was on the board of Walmart, which, she claimed, ‘killed her hometown’, which is funny because the last time I was in our hometown, you couldn’t buy a parking space near the Square for love or money.

We on the Left tend to bitch and moan about how Walmart and other Big Box Stores killed Mom and Pop stores, but then we all go gaga for things like Amazon and Uber and such that just as surely kill off lots of B&M stores and jobs, etc. I read the other day that lots of taxi drivers in NYC spent years saving up enough, and borrowing money to buy a license, which Uber is rendering worthless.

But Uber is cool, trendy, hip, etc.

I’m trying to avoid patronizing anything that markets itself as cool, trendy or hip.

There used to be LOTS of really nice independent bookstores on the west side of St. Paul, but they all went under around the time that Borders and B&N started invading the Twin Cities. The only independent book store now is Garrison Keillor’s bookstore that’s also supported by Macalester College. I can’t stand Keillor so I haven’t been in the store. Minneapolis still has a few good independent bookstores, but they’re mostly used books.

344
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:42:24am

re: #294 danarchy

In 2017 Antifa protested at the G20 meeting in Germany. There were fires and looting and over 200 injured police. Antifa was a force for evil that day.

and that was used en masse by the German media to portray anyone who was against G-20, corporatism and globalization to be a car-burning, looting enemy of polite society.

And images of burning cars upset Germans worse than images of beheadings…

345
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:42:24am

re: #335 Blind Frog Belly White

Fortunately, the nearest Wal*Mart to me is sixty miles away.

I have a problem with Wal*Mart for the way they treat their employees—horrendous personal experience behind the hide bar.

When we lived in Oklahoma, our next-door neighbour was dying. His son and daughter lived with him, and the daughter’s daughter (age six) did too.

Wal*Mart would frequently schedule both of them for the midnight shift, leaving the six-year-old with her dying grandfather.

One morning about two a.m. the granddaughter came to our house to tell us her grandfather had died.

I called Wal*Mart to speak with the manager to ask him to send one of them home. He refused, saying that company policy required such things go through the Bentonville office, and he would not pass my message.

I drove to the store and found the girl’s mother and told her, while my wife consoled the granddaughter at home. The mother of course lost it in the store, and when she asked the manager for time to go home, he told her “no” and had me ejected from the store.

She quit her job right then.

All Wal*Mart’s work like that. Schedule changes have to go through the home office in Arkansas as their computer systems write the schedules. (Easier that way to ensure someone is not actually getting full-time so they would have to give them benefits and such.)

My sister used to be the assistant manager of a Wal*Mart in Florida. I won’t mention what happened there (it was worse).

Wal*Mart will never see a dime of my money.

346
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:43:29am

re: #337 Nyet

If they only acted in self-defense we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

When did antifa run someone down with a car or beat someone with a baseball bat in a parking garage? I forget.

347
CongoJack  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:44:01am

re: #346 Anymouse 🌹

If it would have happened I am quite certain it with be on FNC 24/7.

348
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:44:22am

re: #337 Nyet

You are making very specific claims about Antifa, such as that they routinely engage in “mob justice”. When and how did Antifa engage in “mob justice”? Can you answer that question or not?

Antifa defended anti White Supremacist protesters in Charlottesville. To the best of my knowledge, they use violence in self defense. So I’d really like to hear more about this “mob justice” of which you speak.

349
Stanley Sea  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:45:00am

re: #341 allegro

What a GREAT photo!!!

They are so cute.

350
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:45:22am

re: #312 JordanRules

And nine times out of ten they are the poorest excuse for being supreme in any way.

351
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:46:12am

re: #346 Anymouse 🌹

When did antifa run someone down with a car or beat someone with a baseball bat in a parking garage? I forget.

Black-clad antifa members attack peaceful right-wing demonstrators in Berkeley

352
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:47:52am

re: #332 Nyet

What some of the people antifa are opposing are doing is truly neither here, nor there. They don’t get brownie points for opposing bad guys among others.

My point wasn’t that the people the antifa have abused consist of elderly disable people and nerds with signs. It was that they include those people.

That’s quite aside from the mob rule issue. No, vigilantes don’t get to abuse the far-right who haven’t first abused them (i.e. not as a matter of self-defense). I say that as someone who supports hate speech laws and thinks that the state should put people in prison for the more extreme racist propaganda.

There was this Russian neo-Nazi, Tesak, who publicly abused men wanting to sleep with male minors (which would include pedo- and ephebophiles). His videos used to be quite popular in Russia. In the West it was recognized that such mob “justice” is sick, regardless of the fact that most of Tesak’s victims might actually deserve to be in prison.

The KKK has always included old people and nerds. They may not be physically able to string me up, they support the ones who can. Aligning yourself with white supremacists doesn’t mean you get a pass because you’re old or are only carrying a sign.

As for the rest of it, that’s fine that you don’t agree with a preventative self-defense. End of the day, Antifa goes away if the alt-right goes away, the opposite is not true. Oh and the opposition to Antifa are holocaust deniers, except for the ones who want to do it again. So there’s that.

353
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:48:33am

re: #348 Patricia Kayden

littlegreenfootballs.com

You know, if you are not even aware of such basic facts, maybe a continuation of this conversation does not make sense.

354
MsJ  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:49:20am

re: #323 Patricia Kayden

If Antifa is initiating violence, I condemn them for doing that. If they are protecting anti-racist protesters, I have zero problems if any violence attributable to them is in self defense.

To the best of my knowledge, zero people have been killed by Antifa. Can’t say the same for White Supremacists.

My question: are they AntiFa (anti fascist), anarchists playing AntiFa or rat fuckers trying to “frame” AntiFa?

That is my question.

355
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:51:02am

re: #352 Bass Reeves

> preventative self-defense

Nice newspeak.

Anyway, I can’t prove to you that lynch mobs are bad. Morality is notoriously subjective. Nor am I in the mood.

356
Blind Frog Belly White  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:51:43am

re: #345 Anymouse 🌹

Interestingly, the same sister who bemoans the ‘killing’ of our hometown by Walmart worked for years at Home Depot, which killed any number of Mom and Pop hardware stores, INCLUDING the one in our hometown, with the guy who knew exactly where to find the right nuts for that bolt you brought him.

357
Patricia Kayden  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:52:53am

re: #353 Nyet

That’s fine. Don’t speak to me then.

358
gocart mozart  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:53:24am

re: #43 Ace-o-aces

359
Bass Reeves  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:54:09am

re: #355 Nyet

Mkay, get back to me when Antifa starts lynching, I’ll call them out with you. Even though I actually linked an attempted lynching of a 12 year old, and there was an 8 year old with rope burns on his neck *last week*, you keep on…doing whatever.

360
Anymouse 🌹  Sep 15, 2017 • 11:56:35am

re: #355 Nyet

> preventative self-defense

Nice newspeak.

Anyway, I can’t prove to you that lynch mobs are bad. Morality is notoriously subjective. Nor am I in the mood.

A beatdown of a person is certainly bad. It is not a “lynch mob,” which has a very specific meaning in the context of groups like the Klan.

Perhaps because you don’t have a neo-Nazi for a next-door neighbour, or a wingnut up the road from you flying Nazi Party flags from his ranch gate, or a wingnut in your county seat flying Confederate battle flags in freakin’ Nebraska, or a church up the road from you that calls for death to atheists and liberals you see it differently.

That goes back to organisation: A protest group must be organised to be able to identify those who would hijack it for other purposes (like violence).

361
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 12:01:05pm

re: #360 Anymouse 🌹

I’ll take your correction about the term “lynch”.

362
Nyet  Sep 15, 2017 • 12:03:44pm

Then again, the black guy who saved that alt-righter from the masked antifa thugs did assume he was dealing with a lynch mob:

“I was scared they were going to kill him,” Letson said. “So the only thing I could think was I wanted to get on top of him to protect him.”

revealnews.org

363
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Sep 15, 2017 • 1:49:05pm

re: #235 stpaulbear

What are the five agencies? I know about Transunion, Experion and Equifax, but what are the other two you contacted? How much are they charging to freeze your credit?

Innovis is one, I’ll get the other when I get home. So far, Experian is the only one that charged ($10). That depends on your state, though.


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