WATCH LIVE: The Trump Impeachment Hearings - Day 5 — Hill, Holmes to Testify

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Fiona Hill, former National Security Council senior director for Europe and Russia, will testify before the House Intelligence Committee on Thursday, Nov. 21, in the impeachment probe into President Donald Trump. Hill told lawmakers in closed-door testimony last month that then-national security adviser John Bolton expressed concerns that the Trump administration was trying to pressure Ukrainian officials. The focus of the impeachment inquiry is a July 25 phone call in which Trump asked Ukraine’s president to investigate 2020 presidential candidate Joe Biden. Lawmakers are seeking answers on whether Trump tied that investigation to U.S. aid for Ukraine.

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272 comments
1
jaunte  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:02:36am
2
Patricia Kayden  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:03:29am
3
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:04:05am

CL’d:

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area.

The GOP will continue to distance themselves from reality, and Fiona Hill is testifying under oath today. Her testimony will continue to corroborate what we already know that everyone in Trumpworld was in on Trump’s attempt to bribe/extort Ukraine into announcing an investigation of Bidens by withholding military aid that they desperately needed.

Expect Trump to attack her because she’s bringing the fire.

Trump wanted the investigation to be announced because it would hurt Biden. He didn’t care if the investigation went anywhere. The announcement would be sufficient. Trump didn’t give a shit about corruption, except where he could profit from it.

Now we also learn that Lev Parnas was involved in setting up a meeting between Nunes and Ukrainian officials.

4
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:07:58am

So, last night’s debate. Funny how women seem to be defined based on their accomplishments, but guys are defined on their potential.

Weird. Pete has a fraction of the accomplishments of someone like Warren or Harris, but media hot takes give him an edge why? Because of what potential he brings? What about Warren’s potential or that of Harris.

Pete is a mayor of a small market city. Heck, it’d barely rate as a neighborhood in a place like Los Angeles or Brooklyn NY (which itself is a fraction of NYC). And yet Kamala is US Senator from California and a distinguished prosecutor and Warren is also a US Senator who has signature legislation to her credit.

I don’t get it.

But I do get that everyone should be dunking on Tulsi even more than they have.

5
Citizen K  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:08:12am

Since I got CL’d as well:

And thus we see why Kamala ceased to get any purchase after that 2nd debate: they deigned only to define her by that debate alone and her perceived ‘failures’ and refused to update any expectations or give credit for anything else after that. Her status was forever set in stone.

6
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:08:43am

re: #4 lawhawk

So, last night’s debate. Funny how women seem to be defined based on their accomplishments, but guys are defined on their potential.

Weird. Pete has a fraction of the accomplishments of someone like Warren or Harris, but media hot takes give him an edge why? Because of what potential he brings? What about Warren’s potential or that of Harris.

Pete is a mayor of a small market city. Heck, it’d barely rate as a neighborhood in a place like Los Angeles or Brooklyn NY (which itself is a fraction of NYC). And yet Kamala is US Senator from California and a distinguished prosecutor and Warren is also a US Senator who has signature legislation to her credit.

I don’t get it.

But I do get that everyone should be dunking on Tulsi even more than they have.

Exactly.

7
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:10:40am
8
FFL (GOP Delenda Est)  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:12:33am

The other thing that will slowly shift is the understanding that “Trump’s party” does not mean that Trump belongs to the GOP, but that the GOP belongs to Trump.

9
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:14:42am

re: #7 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

And that needs to be our narrative- you’ve seen the evidence, the Republicans in Congress have ignored. Vote him out once and for all.- We need to offer transparent and open government too along with a foreign policy that exists for the country’s benefit rather than the President’s wallet and ego.

10
A hollow voice says, Impeachmoot now!  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:15:06am

Good morning, all. Another jet-lagged day, another hearing. And another revelation of the appalling spectacle that our national government has become.

While there is satisfaction in seeing DT and his minions exposed and flailing, I take no pleasure in any of this.

11
Citizen K  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:15:22am

re: #7 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Not just Republican officials. They’re seeing the idea that GOP voters aren’t shifting as a sign that this all doesn’t matter and therefore it must be bad for Dems despite the obvious and revealed criminality.

Because again, only GOP voters matter or even exist, ever.

12
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:16:10am

re: #8 FFL (GOP Delenda Est)

The other thing that will slowly shift is the understanding that “Trump’s party” does not mean that Trump belongs to the GOP, but that the GOP belongs to Trump.

Exactly. They’re stuck with him. He will define their party’s direction.

13
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:16:55am

Good news watch:

14
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:18:13am

I ask this of the media. Has Trump gotten more people on his side since this? Nope. He’s rallied his base but his base isn’t enough. We saw this in Louisiana and Kentucky.

15
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:19:13am

re: #13 lawhawk

Good news watch:

[Embedded content]

“Cites health.” Yeah, having your head that far up your own ass isn’t healthy.

16
Patricia Kayden  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:19:26am
17
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:21:09am

Nunes is repeating the same opening from day to day, and the bulkshit spewed is worthy of a mute.

18
A hollow voice says, Impeachmoot now!  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:23:15am

Oooh, Devin has a new word: thoughtcrime!

19
jaunte  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:23:17am

“NO, U!”

Nunes, basically.

20
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:23:19am
21
jaunte  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:23:40am

re: #18 A hollow voice says, Impeachmoot now!

22
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:23:46am

“Nude photos”! DRINK!

23
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:24:03am

Nude photos! Drink!

24
jaunte  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:24:46am

Meanwhile, Fiona Hill:

25
jaunte  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:27:31am
26
i(m)p(each)sos  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:29:18am

Is the report more valid when it’s slammed on the desk in front of Schiff?

Moo.

27
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:29:58am

That had to be one of the most passive-aggressive moments from Nunes’ in these hearings.

28
Belafon  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:30:25am

re: #27 Targetpractice

That had to be one of the most passive-aggressive moments from Nunes’ in these hearings.

If we had any more days, Nunes would bring in a cane.

29
Citizen K  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:32:37am

re: #27 Targetpractice

That had to be one of the most passive-aggressive moments from Nunes’ in these hearings.

I’m not sure Nunes has any other kinds of moments.

30
Jebediah, RBG  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:32:54am

Has anyone taken the name Kid Pro Quo for their hiphop act?

31
Citizen K  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:34:54am

re: #30 Jebediah, RBG

Has anyone taken the name Kid Pro Quo for their hiphop act?

There apparently is an artist listing for a “Kid Pro Quo” on Apple Music, but the first few hits are for the Law and Order ep by that name.

32
Eventual Carrion  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:35:04am

re: #30 Jebediah, RBG

Has anyone taken the name Kid Pro Quo for their hiphop act?

Kid Pro Quo

33
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:35:07am

re: #4 lawhawk

So, last night’s debate. Funny how women seem to be defined based on their accomplishments, but guys are defined on their potential.

Weird. Pete has a fraction of the accomplishments of someone like Warren or Harris, but media hot takes give him an edge why? Because of what potential he brings? What about Warren’s potential or that of Harris.

Pete is a mayor of a small market city. Heck, it’d barely rate as a neighborhood in a place like Los Angeles or Brooklyn NY (which itself is a fraction of NYC). And yet Kamala is US Senator from California and a distinguished prosecutor and Warren is also a US Senator who has signature legislation to her credit.

I don’t get it.

But I do get that everyone should be dunking on Tulsi even more than they have.

I got CL’d downstairs too. I’ve said it before but…

As a woman it infuriates me.

A woman at the top of the dem ticket is going to be hard, really hard, because women have it much harder than (1) white men, then (2) any other men. Fact of life.

Black men got the vote before women did.

It’s like we barely matter, have to work 100x harder, have to prove what where others (meaning men) are assumed. Where men are strong and assertive, women are bitches. We don’t fucking smile enough.

Don’t get me wrong, I am in no way a man hater and I think you all know that, but this is just a fact of life.

Christ, fucking Pakistan elected a woman decades ago. Yet here we are.

Smile gals…and for god’s sake be nice. Otherwise, you’re invisible (see Kamala and Amy both).

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

34
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:36:01am

re: #7 lawhawk

Reporters are slowly locking in on the following narrative: “Trump committed criminal conduct but he won’t be removed from office because Republicans in the Senate won’t do it.” ON TO 2020

And that ought to be the DNC rallying cry: “The Senate had a job to do and punted. Voters, get out there and finish the task that they were too cowardly to face!!!”

35
Barefoot Grin  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:36:43am

re: #30 Jebediah, RBG

Has anyone taken the name Kid Pro Quo for their hiphop act?

No, but we just taught our dog to “shake” for a treat—a quid paw quo, if you will.

36
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:38:02am

re: #13 lawhawk

Good news watch:

[Embedded content]

I wonder how much the Roger Stone thing plays into this. Lying is a bad look, especially since it winds wearing orange. Yesterday was a hell of a day for liars. If I was any of those bootlickers who suddenly found Jesus, they have got to be looking in the rear view mirror a lot right now.

Suddenly, the rest of the millionaires/billionaires who thought buying their way into whatever are having second thoughts.

37
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:38:42am

re: #15 Targetpractice

“Cites health.” Yeah, having your head that far up your own ass isn’t healthy.

Fear of perpetually having to wear Orange. :-D

38
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:40:02am

re: #33 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

I got CL’d downstairs too. I’ve said it before but…

As a woman it infuriates me.

A woman at the top of the dem ticket is going to be hard, really hard, because women have it much harder than (1) white men, then (2) any other men. Fact of life.

Black men got the vote before women did.

It’s like we barely matter, have to work 100x harder, have to prove what where others (meaning men) are assumed. Where men are strong and assertive, women are bitches. We don’t fucking smile enough.

Don’t get me wrong, I am in no way a man hater and I think you all know that, but this is just a fact of life.

Christ, fucking Pakistan elected a woman decades ago. Yet here we are.

Smile gals…and for god’s sake be nice. Otherwise, you’re invisible (see Kamala and Amy both).

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

I don’t think you’re coming off as hating men at all. The fact is there are certain advantages that men get. Look at Trump’s experience versus HRC’s or his demeanor versus his. Or hell Bernie versus HRC in 2016. And as much as I like Biden the man, that he’s known to be “gaffe prone” is something that a woman would never get the same pass for.

39
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:41:02am

re: #36 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

I wonder how much the Roger Stone thing plays into this. Lying is a bad look, especially since it winds wearing orange. Yesterday was a hell of a day for liars. If I was any of those bootlickers who suddenly found Jesus, they have got to be looking in the rear view mirror a lot right now.

Suddenly, the rest of the millionaires/billionaires who thought buying their way into whatever are having second thoughts.

For Sammy Gravano, it was simple as hearing Gotti badmouth him on the wires that they had in the Ravenite.

40
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:42:06am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

I don’t think you’re coming off as hating men at all. The fact is there are certain advantages that men get. Look at Trump’s experience versus HRC’s or his demeanor versus his. Or hell Bernie versus HRC in 2016. And as much as I like Biden the man, that he’s known to be “gaffe prone” is something that a woman would never get the same pass for.

Who was the female politician who recently had to resign over an affair? Imagine something like that stopping a male politician these days…

41
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:42:53am

re: #40 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Who was the female politician who recently had to resign over an affair? Imagine something like that stopping a male politician these days…

Katie Hill.

42
Citizen K  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:43:12am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

I don’t think you’re coming off as hating men at all. The fact is there are certain advantages that men get. Look at Trump’s experience versus HRC’s or his demeanor versus his. Or hell Bernie versus HRC in 2016. And as much as I like Biden the man, that he’s known to be “gaffe prone” is something that a woman would never get the same pass for.

Biden’s continued support and high marks seems to be resignation at the altar of ‘electability’ at its finest. Just the sense that the powers that be won’t allow anyone but an old white male to be president anymore, so you might as well hitch your star now and focus on beating Trump first, because getting another Obama won’t be ‘allowed’ anymore.

43
Rightwingconspirator  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:44:31am

“Rudy effs everything up” is my quote of the morning.

44
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:45:11am

re: #40 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Who was the female politician who recently had to resign over an affair? Imagine something like that stopping a male politician these days…

She didn’t resign over an affair…she resigned because her husband had a ton of revenge porn pics and videos he threatened her with releasing through right-wing sites.

45
makeitstop  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:45:33am

This Holmes guy has an edge. He’s going to be a handful for the Rs, as he’s clearly upset at how they’ve trashed State Department professionals like Yovanovich.

And it looked like it took every ounce of Fiona Hill’s self-restraint to not take Nunes’ ‘report’ and throw it across the room.

46
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:45:56am

The thing is that this sexism and racism does exist throughout our society. Yes, some is more open and more insidious but that a median presidential age candidate who has been her home county’s DA, then her state’s AG, and then their Senator. And did I mention that this is the largest population wise state in the country and one of the most diverse? If Kamala was Kam Harris, a man especially a white man, the media would be pushing him so much. Is Kamala perfect? No but at this point, I’d probably take her over all the other Dems running since I think she has the right experience, temperament, and ideological mindset to be President. I guess what I’m saying is if she’s tehre in February, I’ll vote for her in Virginia.

47
makeitstop  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:47:04am

Wait, Jay Leno? What the what??

48
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:47:31am

re: #42 Citizen K

Biden’s continued support and high marks seems to be resignation at the altar of ‘electability’ at its finest. Just the sense that the powers that be won’t allow anyone but an old white male to be president anymore, so you might as well hitch your star now and focus on beating Trump first, because getting another Obama won’t be ‘allowed’ anymore.

See that’s the thing. That someone like Kamala or to a smaller extent Liz would break the glass ceiling is great to me but it’s that Kamala offers a lot. I actually think Biden’s not totally useless. I think of the four frontrunners he by far would be the best on FP. But I also think he’s naive as hell about the Republican Party of the present.

49
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:47:39am

re: #45 makeitstop

This Holmes guy has an edge. He’s going to be a handful for the Rs, as he’s clearly upset at how they’ve trashed State Department professionals like Yovanovich.

And it looked like it took every ounce of Fiona Hill’s self-restraint to not take Nunes’ ‘report’ and throw it across the room.

Yeah, she had her jaw set so tight she could probably bite through a steel plate as Nunes was talking.

50
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:48:07am

re: #44 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

She didn’t resign over an affair…she resigned because her husband had a ton of revenge porn pics and videos he threatened her with releasing through right-wing sites.

Exactly. Read about this incident.
en.wikipedia.org

51
sagehen  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:48:22am

re: #38 HappyWarrior

I don’t think you’re coming off as hating men at all. The fact is there are certain advantages that men get. Look at Trump’s experience versus HRC’s or his demeanor versus his. Or hell Bernie versus HRC in 2016. And as much as I like Biden the man, that he’s known to be “gaffe prone” is something that a woman would never get the same pass for.

Try to imagine a woman behaving as Kavenaugh did at his hearing.

QED

52
Citizen K  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:49:42am

re: #48 HappyWarrior

See that’s the thing. That someone like Kamala or to a smaller extent Liz would break the glass ceiling is great to me but it’s that Kamala offers a lot. I actually think Biden’s not totally useless. I think of the four frontrunners he by far would be the best on FP. But I also think he’s naive as hell about the Republican Party of the present.

He just seems way too indicative of the segment of the Dem party that values comity and bipartisanship over actually getting anything done, which has been such a proven failure against the modern GOP to the point that even Obama’s idealism eventually hardened on that measure.

53
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:51:35am

re: #51 sagehen

Try to imagine a woman behaving as Kavenaugh did at his hearing.

QED

Yeah. Remember Lumpy just last week saying Ambassador Yovanovitch would cry. Kavanaugh literally cried before the Judiciary Committee about his love of beer. Another woman who was there and calm as can be? Amy Klobuchar. I think she’s another one that has been hurt by sexist double standards. I don’t doubt she’s probably a tough person to work for but similar stories never hurt Sanders’ image.

54
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:52:50am

re: #46 HappyWarrior

The thing is that this sexism and racism does exist throughout our society.

I think it does. And I think if we could see a scatter chart by age, sex and location - and party affiliation, there would be some very interesting results.

Gamergate shows how much this affects young guys. Incels. Men who hate their woman boss (would likely hate any boss, but I digress). Old men who want to go back to the wimmenfolk listening and behaving. Religious nuts who think women are chattel to the man.

I think this is broadly throughout American society. For varying reasons.

55
Jebediah, RBG  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:53:27am

re: #31 Citizen K

There apparently is an artist listing for a “Kid Pro Quo” on Apple Music, but the first few hits are for the Law and Order ep by that name.

Hmm. A sleeper rapper, maybe, waiting for Devin Nunes to speak the activation code words?
Maybe something like “I beat the fictional cow in court?”

56
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:53:39am

re: #52 Citizen K

He just seems way too indicative of the segment of the Dem party that values comity and bipartisanship over actually getting anything done, which has been such a proven failure against the modern GOP to the point that even Obama’s idealism eventually hardened on that measure.

He would be great if the whole of the aftermath of the Cold War hadn’t happened. I really want to give him a chance but he makes it hard. I’m not that big on Pete either. Of the big four, I probably like Warren the most but I keep on waiting for a staunch social liberal, fiscal pragmatist, and foreign policy realist to emerge in the hearts of the voters and it’s not happening sadly.

57
Jebediah, RBG  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:54:38am

re: #32 Eventual Carrion

Kid Pro Quo

I will have to watch that one and see how hiphop it is

58
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:55:04am

re: #48 HappyWarrior

See that’s the thing. That someone like Kamala or to a smaller extent Liz would break the glass ceiling is great to me but it’s that Kamala offers a lot. I actually think Biden’s not totally useless. I think of the four frontrunners he by far would be the best on FP. But I also think he’s naive as hell about the Republican Party of the present.

I think that there are many Americans who want there to be this big reconciliation between parties so we can all sing kumbaya and get along like everyone cares about the country and not about getting and keeping power. I have to think that is why you hear politicians saying that.

It’s utter bullshit but that’s my take.

59
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:55:21am

re: #54 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

I think it does. And I think if we could see a scatter chart by age, sex and location - and party affiliation, there would be some very interesting results.

Gamergate shows how much this affects young guys. Incels. Men who hate their woman boss (would likely hate any boss, but I digress). Old men who want to go back to the wimmenfolk listening and behaving. Religious nuts who think women are chattel to the man.

I think this is broadly throughout American society. For varying reasons.

I mean there’s a reason why MeToo has resulted in high profile men in all walks of life and ages being caught up in it. And your point about Gamergate is why you don’t see me go “Ok Boomer”, our problems are with individual mindsets rather than generational.

60
Jebediah, RBG  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:56:05am

re: #35 Barefoot Grin

No, but we just taught our dog to “shake” for a treat—a quid paw quo, if you will.

Ah ha ha ha ha!
You and the pup win

61
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:56:29am

re: #58 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

I think that there are many Americans who want there to be this big reconciliation between parties so we can all sing kumbaya and get along like everyone cares about the country and not about getting and keeping power. I have to think that is why you hear politicians saying that.

It’s utter bullshit but that’s my take.

I do not like Chris Christie, but I admire him for the way he worked with Obama on aid for hurricane Sandy.

But that was the last gasp of a dying tradition.

62
plansbandc  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:56:34am

re: #33 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

If I could, I would give you all the updings.

63
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:56:51am

re: #2 Patricia Kayden

Wednesday was a significant day in the impeachment inquiry into President Trump.

Gordon Sondland’s dramatic testimony shook the impeachment debate and undercut the president
— The Washington Post

But, did we really need Sondland’s testimony to do that? The president* has been undercutting himself since day 1.

64
plansbandc  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:58:18am

re: #35 Barefoot Grin

Oh no.

65
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:58:20am

re: #58 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

I think that there are many Americans who want there to be this big reconciliation between parties so we can all sing kumbaya and get along like everyone cares about the country and not about getting and keeping power. I have to think that is why you hear politicians saying that.

It’s utter bullshit but that’s my take.

Yeah and I think that’s what Biden is trying to play at. I just think it’s naive especially given what we saw in the Obama years. Biden can try all he wants but it was never a Tip O’Neill-Reagan relationship that Obama had with Congressional R’s. Trump is awful and maybe him being gone will make some things easier but as Congressional Republicans resign and retire, tehy just get replaced with other nutty Republicans. Look at Matt Gaetz. A few years ago we were talking about Michele Bachmann. The names may change but the type of Republican that goes to Washington these days as a freshman and who will be growing in teh ranks in the next decade will not be a moderate but a true believer in the Trump brand. And I think that’s what Elise Stefanik and Nikki Haley have banked on.

66
Citizen K  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:58:26am

re: #58 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

I think that there are many Americans who want there to be this big reconciliation between parties so we can all sing kumbaya and get along like everyone cares about the country and not about getting and keeping power. I have to think that is why you hear politicians saying that.

It’s utter bullshit but that’s my take.

Except taking this kind of cant feels like the political equivalent of the NYT’s ‘both sides same thing’ coverage, where all it does in the end is legitimize the GOP’s malfeasance and bad faith negotiating by exalting ‘civility’ and trying to treat the playing field as fully level. It’s a mistake of both politics and strategy and severely misreading the political power of promising some sort of reconciliation.

67
Belafon  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:58:41am

re: #63 Sir John Barron

But, did we really need Sondland’s testimony to do that? The president* has been undercutting himself since day 1.

The difference is, a lot of the country had just been accepting that as the stuff of a crazy uncle. Yesterday, we found out that uncle had been stealing cars and reselling them.

68
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 6:59:28am

Any Republican moderate enough to work with the Democrats would never survive a GOP primary.

69
jaunte  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:01:05am
70
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:01:09am

re: #53 HappyWarrior

Yeah. Remember Lumpy just last week saying Ambassador Yovanovitch would cry. Kavanaugh literally cried before the Judiciary Committee about his love of beer. Another woman who was there and calm as can be? Amy Klobuchar. I think she’s another one that has been hurt by sexist double standards. I don’t doubt she’s probably a tough person to work for but similar stories never hurt Sanders’ image.

I think Klobuchar has really handled herself well through this whole process. Glad to see she has stuck around amidst the rising and falling of various candidates.

71
Belafon  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:02:07am

re: #58 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

I think that there are many Americans who want there to be this big reconciliation between parties so we can all sing kumbaya and get along like everyone cares about the country and not about getting and keeping power. I have to think that is why you hear politicians saying that.

It’s utter bullshit but that’s my take.

Which would be fine, but one side is saying “We can be neighbors again, but you’ll need to end abortion, stop giving minorities benefits, and let us be in charge.”

72
The Pie Overlord!  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:05:10am

He’s all wound up this morning:

I hear other people’s phone calls all the time. Mostly when they are using a bluetooth and they are standing in the supermarket aisle and shouting at the top of their lungs.

73
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:05:30am

re: #71 Belafon

Which would be fine, but one side is saying “We can be neighbors again, but you’ll need to end abortion, stop giving minorities benefits, and let us be in charge.”

And what’s this about Cow Nunes wanting a ‘GOP Day of Testimony’ or some such bulshike?

I hope the Dem answer to that is ‘No’.

74
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:05:55am

re: #70 Sir John Barron

I think Klobuchar has really handled herself well through this whole process. Glad to see she has stuck around amidst the rising and falling of various candidates.

She reminds me of my mom and I mean that as the strongest compliment to both women.

75
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:06:08am

re: #72 The Pie Overlord!

He’s all wound up this morning:

IM GREAT I MAKE GREAT PHONE CALLS IM VARY SMART GENUIS

76
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:06:37am

re: #59 HappyWarrior

I mean there’s a reason why MeToo has resulted in high profile men in all walks of life and ages being caught up in it. And your point about Gamergate is why you don’t see me go “Ok Boomer”, our problems are with individual mindsets rather than generational.

The thread on twitter last night about a female border patrol person was one of the most difficult things I have ever read in my life. It was a gut punch like i haven’t felt in years.

77
Belafon  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:06:43am

re: #73 Sir John Barron

And what’s this about Cow Nunes wanting a ‘GOP Day of Testimony’ or some such bulshike?

I hope the Dem answer to that is ‘No’.

Schiff will shut that down pretty quickly.

78
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:06:48am

re: #72 The Pie Overlord!

He’s all wound up this morning:

I HAVE THE BEST HEARING I HEAR GRATE SO GREAT AND NEVER HEAR OTHERS ON THE PHONE BELIEVE ME

79
Eventual Carrion  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:07:22am

re: #72 The Pie Overlord!

He’s all wound up this morning:

[Embedded content]

I hear the other side of cell phone calls all the time. Loud talker on other end and volume all the way up on receiver, easy to hear. And I have mediocre hearing. But with tRump, any lie will do.

80
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:07:41am

re: #74 HappyWarrior

She reminds me of my mom and I mean that as the strongest compliment to both women.

My concern about her was I thought she lacked the chops for the job, but I think she is holding up well and continuing to give a good impression.

81
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:08:11am

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Do you think Biden is playing on the Kumbaya thing? I don’t think he is. I think he is in complete denial.

82
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:08:37am

re: #77 Belafon

Schiff will shut that down pretty quickly.

Yeah, I mean, which party controls the House?

/

83
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:09:40am

re: #76 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

The thread on twitter last night about a female border patrol person was one of the most difficult things I have ever read in my life. It was a gut punch like i haven’t felt in years.

I bet. I think sexism is one of those things like racism where people think it has to be something really in your face for it to be it. And I’ll be the first to admit that there have been some things that were probably sexist that I overlooked because of our cultural narrative and simply being male just like I’ve probably done the same with race. I am trying not to. I really don’t like the term woke in this sense but aware. Aware that there are different standards put on men and women just as there with race.

84
Eventual Carrion  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:09:40am

Mr. “Sherlock” Holmes is really laying it on. Good

85
The Pie Overlord!  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:09:50am

OK one more baby picture and then I’ll stop, I promise!

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

86
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:10:53am

re: #80 Sir John Barron

My concern about her was I thought she lacked the chops for the job, but I think she is holding up well and continuing to give a good impression.

She seems to be a hard worker. What I like about her is she’s very much grounded in reality. Sometimes and I say this as someone who is probably economically to the Sanders/Warren wing than I am hers but the former group needs to be kicked in the ass sometimes about reality.

87
jaunte  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:11:18am

re: #85 The Pie Overlord!

kUF2zAxpZqBp7w0ddN9L5Q3pfyE2Q+tDp6x0q3fU8mPiS2VWZL7CdRs2Rx1ReSot

88
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:11:52am

re: #85 The Pie Overlord!

OK one more baby picture and then I’ll stop, I promise!

[Embedded content]

jnTaLqC2qiSrGRHcu6qPAuHxYd+KWwnBHtMjSrWvgOOJotgWUwuAd/otv6IZ0jM6gtHcxquRmOuUrilZsJu6b8U6LjXVijSgNGfdLA8HbV+v0pVN2RD0+8uFUwliVoxGM54gS+3xdYDvpPRf39i0/gTZyTZmd/deL4dzi1lYYCm8Y4H6aB/CWA==

89
makeitstop  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:12:57am

Not to be completely superficial here, but Fiona Hill’s accent has completely won me over already. :)

90
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:13:08am

re: #87 jaunte

[Embedded content]

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

91
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:13:36am

re: #89 makeitstop

Not to be completely superficial here, but Fiona Hill’s accent has completely won me over already. :)

Indeed.

92
b.d. (Where is Rudy?)  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:14:13am

re: #72 The Pie Overlord!

He’s all wound up this morning:

[Embedded content]

I hear other people’s phone calls all the time. Mostly when they are using a bluetooth and they are standing in the supermarket aisle and shouting at the top of their lungs.

I AM GOING TO USE THE PRESIDENTIAL ALERT SYSTEM TO CALL EVERY CELL PHONE IN AMERICA, I BET YOU CAN’T HEAR ME IF DON’T HAVE THE PHONE AGAINST YOUR EAR!!

93
plansbandc  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:14:50am

re: #81 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Not a fan of Biden. Wish we lived in a country that would elect Harris or Warren, be we don’t. So it will be a dude. And Biden, in my opinion will be the dude. And I will vote for him.

I think he belongs to a time far gone. I think he will struggle to keep things from getting worse without making things appreciably better. While that is more than a bit depressing, it is world’s better than the fat orange tyrant having another term.

That being said, I will vote for any Dem over the fot. I won’t vote for Tulsi, but she’s not a Dem.

94
makeitstop  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:16:05am
95
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:16:17am

re: #34 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

And that ought to be the DNC rallying cry: “The Senate had a job to do and punted. Voters, get out there and finish the task that they were too cowardly to face!!!”

The Senate has to do many jobs — and it’s ignoring everything except populating the bench with unqualified racist federalist society puppets. A reminder: the most powerful woman in the United States now is the Speaker — who has passed scores of bills, including gun control and election security legislation — while these bills languish in the McConnell Senate. She is the first woman to run the House and she is brilliant at her job.

It is infuriating that Kamala is not getting the support she deserves — and part of that has to be laid at the feet of the BernieBros who saw her as a threat early on and attacked her early and viciously, demeaning her at every opportunity.

96
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:16:19am

re: #93 plansbandc

Not a fan of Biden. Wish we lived in a country that would elect Harris or Warren, be we don’t. So it will be a dude. And Biden, in my opinion will be the dude. And I will vote for him.

I think he belongs to a time far gone. I think he will struggle to keep things from getting worse without making things appreciably better. While that is more than a bit depressing, it is world’s better than the fat orange tyrant having another term.

That being said, I will vote for any Dem over the fot. I won’t vote for Tulsi, but she’s not a Dem.

I just hope Biden surrounds himself with good people.

97
GlutenFreeJesus  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:17:20am

re: #93 plansbandc

Yup. We are too worried about 2020 and not looking at how to hold onto 2024 as well.

98
b.d. (Where is Rudy?)  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:17:43am

re: #94 makeitstop

[Embedded content]

Someone will have to explain to Nunes that he was being called an idiot.

99
jaunte  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:18:20am

re: #93 plansbandc

If we wind up with Biden, I sincerely hope he’s smart enough to put Harris on the ticket.

100
plansbandc  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:20:21am

re: #99 jaunte

I do believe he will pick excellent people. Guy isn’t stupid. Plus, Obama has his back. So there’s that.

101
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:21:05am

re: #97 GlutenFreeJesus

Yup. We are too worried about 2020 and not looking at how to hold onto 2024 as well.

Exactly. Because who knows what the hell the GOP is going to look like in 2024? Biden I think could be a good band-aid but I don’t want a band aid. I want someone like what Obama was supposed to be- full on rubbing alcohol. Sorry for the stupid analogy but I guess my point is I think Harris would lead us on issues that previous Presidents had not or had ignored. Obama by far was the most progressive we’ve ever had on LGBT rights and for religious minorities too. I was looking forward to a Clinton presidency because I knew that HRC based on her experience would help make the US a global leader on women’s rights. The one solace I have with Biden is I think is that he will have smart people around him. Sanders? Bernie seems to be in to yes men and women. I really haven’t looked at who is advising Pete and Warren as much.

102
Citizen K  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:21:07am

re: #81 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Do you think Biden is playing on the Kumbaya thing? I don’t think he is. I think he is in complete denial.

He definitely comes off as a sincere believer in the collegiality of the Senate, what with his history, and that’s a gigantic fucking landmine when dealing with McConnell, possibly the single most responsible person for the total shredding of comity and norms.

That said…

re: #93 plansbandc

Not a fan of Biden. Wish we lived in a country that would elect Harris or Warren, be we don’t. So it will be a dude. And Biden, in my opinion will be the dude. And I will vote for him.

I think he belongs to a time far gone. I think he will struggle to keep things from getting worse without making things appreciably better. While that is more than a bit depressing, it is world’s better than the fat orange tyrant having another term.

That being said, I will vote for any Dem over the fot. I won’t vote for Tulsi, but she’s not a Dem.

Essentially this. If Biden is the nom, I will vote for him without hesitation, because Trump absolutely needs to go, any Trump replacement (however unlikely) needs to go, and Dems need some modicum of control back in Washington.

I just fear he will play an even softer hand against the GOP than Obama did initially and find himself even more stonewalled by GOP intransigence than ever. A holding pattern is better than shit actively getting worse, but that’s not comforting to think of when the usual time limit the American electorate gives the Dems to fix GOP fuck-ups looms.

103
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:21:45am

re: #97 GlutenFreeJesus

Yup. We are too worried about 2020 and not looking at how to hold onto 2024 as well.

Stop scaring me.

104
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:22:03am

re: #100 plansbandc

I do believe he will pick excellent people. Guy isn’t stupid. Plus, Obama has his back. So there’s that.

Biden could I guess agree to be a one term President which wouldn’t be terrible. We haven’t had that in a very long time since power is well power and you like to win the second time to prove the first wasn’t a fluke.

105
Belafon  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:23:15am

re: #99 jaunte

If we wind up with Biden, I sincerely hope he’s smart enough to put Harris on the ticket.

I’m trying to decide on that. I agree that Biden’s VP needs to be a woman, but I wonder if some of the candidates would be better in other roles:
Harris: Senator or Attorney General
Warren: Senator or Head of SEC, or Commerce, or Treasury
Klobuchar: Maybe a good VP choice?

106
jaunte  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:24:03am

re: #105 Belafon

Whatever will strengthen the Obama coalition.

107
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:24:10am

re: #103 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Stop scaring me.

I think it’s just that we have to be looking at our candidate not just being our 2020 candidate but what liberalism will mean for the 20’s. There seems to be a divide emerging on the left on what that is. And to be honest, I feel stuck because there are things we need badly to reform but I feel the more economic left types don’t get how that takes time and patience. I dunno. Seeing how ACA got trashed makes me very wary that at this moment that M4A is the prescription.

108
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:24:40am

re: #85 The Pie Overlord!

OK one more baby picture and then I’ll stop, I promise!

[Embedded content]

Us2NsLBdXPyiYFB0fEZOowUPjriT9ijNVgIFrQMDA8EWCOTIAGdr4kqDMIY5pl1+

109
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:25:08am
110
makeitstop  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:25:23am

Hill is all business, and she’s come to drop truth on this committee.

She’s not going to be the least bit afraid to call out the conspiracy mongerers.

111
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:25:43am

Man, Trump is really off the rails this morning. Of course, to be fair that seems to be his default setting these days.

112
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:26:12am

re: #105 Belafon

I’m trying to decide on that. I agree that Biden’s VP needs to be a woman, but I wonder if some of the candidates would be better in other roles:
Harris: Senator or Attorney General
Warren: Senator or Head of SEC, or Commerce, or Treasury
Klobuchar: Maybe a good VP choice?

How about Tammy Baldwin for Joe. She’s progressive, midwestern, and would help him rally support with the emerging left. Warren if she’s not it, I would prefer her stay in the Senate and become what Ted Kennedy did after not being nominated- a great legislator. Klobuchar I’m not sure on yet. Harris I think would make an excellent AG or member of SCOTUS if she were to be not on the ticket.

113
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:26:21am

I will never be able to see the name Fiona and not think of Shrek.

114
Eric The Fruit Bat  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:27:21am

re: #111 Eclectic Cyborg

Man, Trump is really off the rails this morning. Of course, to be fair that seems to be his default setting these days.

FTFY

115
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:27:26am

re: #113 Eclectic Cyborg

I will never be able to see the name Fiona and not think of Shrek.

Shameless for me. I think it’s a pretty name but I’m a sucker for Celtic names.

116
plansbandc  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:27:41am

re: #113 Eclectic Cyborg

I always think this:

Fiona Apple - Criminal

117
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:27:58am

re: #105 Belafon

I’m trying to decide on that. I agree that Biden’s VP needs to be a woman, but I wonder if some of the candidates would be better in other roles:
Harris: Senator or Attorney General
Warren: Senator or Head of SEC, or Commerce, or Treasury
Klobuchar: Maybe a good VP choice?

I think Biden/Castro would be unbeatable and I mean in terms of voter demographics.

Men. Check.

Latino. Check (58mm Latinos in the US).

Could bring home Texas. Checkmate.

118
makeitstop  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:28:44am

re: #115 HappyWarrior

Shameless for me. I think it’s a pretty name but I’m a sucker for Celtic names.

I have a friend in UK who is married to a lovely woman named Fiona. I always think of her.

119
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:29:45am

re: #117 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

I think Biden/Castro would be unbeatable and I mean in terms of voter demographics.

Men. Check.

Latino. Check (58mm Latinos in the US).

Could bring home Texas. Checkmate.

I definitely want to see Castro having some role. I’ve really liked what he’s offered. He’s another guy who it frustrates me that Pete has overtaken. Not only was he mayor of a larger city but he was also head of a cabinet department.

120
Belafon  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:29:58am

re: #113 Eclectic Cyborg

I will never be able to see the name Fiona and not think of Shrek.

Apple.

Fiona Hill makes me think she should pick up a guitar.

121
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:30:11am

re: #85 The Pie Overlord!

OK one more baby picture and then I’ll stop, I promise!

[Embedded content]

don’t make a promise you can’t keep ;-)

122
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:30:19am

re: #118 makeitstop

I have a friend in UK who is married to a lovely woman named Fiona. I always think of her.

Name association is funny isn’t it?

123
Patricia Kayden  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:30:58am

124
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:31:15am

re: #116 plansbandc

I always think this:

[Embedded content]

Such a great song

125
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:31:18am

re: #94 makeitstop

r’s huddled cowering in a corner saying “we are so fucked”
then saying “we gotta come up with something”

126
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:31:50am

re: #110 makeitstop

Hill is all business, and she’s come to drop truth on this committee.

She’s not going to be the least bit afraid to call out the conspiracy mongerers.

…to their faces

127
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:32:08am

I mean if it sounds like I’m shitting on Pete a little here, I apologize. I do like some of what he offers but other times he makes me go “Dude, no.” But I guess the other thing is I think he’s not qualified to be POTUS. I think he could be a cabinet member or a governor/senator but POTUS? Maybe it’s coming from a large county and also reading about his not so stellar record on race relations in Indiana that bothers me.

128
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:33:55am

re: #104 HappyWarrior

Biden could I guess agree to be a one term President which wouldn’t be terrible. We haven’t had that in a very long time since power is well power and you like to win the second time to prove the first wasn’t a fluke.

I don’t mind the idea of his possibly not running for a second term, but I don’t think he should announce that ahead of time.

Maybe let it be known in year 3 if that is the decision, so that other candidates can enter and line up support and get $$$ but I don’t think it’s a good idea to start out a lame duck.

129
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:34:40am

I think you need a woman and or a person of color on the ballot. Two white guys would be a mistake. The fact is it is women and especially minority women that are the strongest supporters of the Democratic party. They support Democratic candidates even in the toughest of years. Now there are white people who do that too and I’m a white male among them and I know some of you are too but we need to acknowledge our base and thus our country’s diversity. When I look at the Trump administration not just seeing the brazen corruption, I don’t see a lot of diversity in backgrounds and experiences.

130
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:35:36am

re: #98 b.d. (Where is Rudy?)

Someone will have to explain to Nunes that he was being called an idiot.

But idiots are usually too idiotic to know when they’re being called an idiot or to know that they are in fact idiots.

131
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:35:44am

re: #127 HappyWarrior

I mean if it sounds like I’m shitting on Pete a little here, I apologize. I do like some of what he offers but other times he makes me go “Dude, no.” But I guess the other thing is I think he’s not qualified to be POTUS. I think he could be a cabinet member or a governor/senator but POTUS? Maybe it’s coming from a large county and also reading about his not so stellar record on race relations in Indiana that bothers me.

Shit away. There are a bunch of folks who will not vote for him…even the Dem or Die people are balking.

We need broad electability. Not what the news people say and not what the whiter than Wonder Bread people in Iowa want to give us (hello, Steve Fucking King anyone?)

132
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:36:07am

re: #128 Sir John Barron

I don’t mind the idea of his possibly not running for a second term, but I don’t think he should announce that ahead of time.

Maybe let it be known in year 3 if that is the decision, so that other candidates can enter and line up support and get $$$ but I don’t think it’s a good idea to start out a lame duck.

That’s true too and probably why he won’t do it. I just wish I could have a pulse on what the Democratic base wants in our candidates. I really find myself in between the two wings that are fighting for the soul of the party right now.

133
Mescalero09  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:36:13am
134
Jay C  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:36:17am

re: #89 makeitstop

Not to be completely superficial here, but Fiona Hill’s accent has completely won me over already. :)

My wife was quite impressed that I could place Dr. Hill’s accent as “somewhere North of Yorkshire” - I looked it up, and she’s from Durham.

135
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:36:35am

re: #127 HappyWarrior

I mean if it sounds like I’m shitting on Pete a little here, I apologize. I do like some of what he offers but other times he makes me go “Dude, no.” But I guess the other thing is I think he’s not qualified to be POTUS.

Yes, I find him highly admirable but unqualified.

Still more qualified than Trump in any case…

136
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:36:52am

Holmes is setting fire to every last shred of GOP narrative, and we haven’t even gotten to the Fiona Hill portion of the testimony.

137
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:37:31am
138
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:37:37am

re: #131 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

Shit away. There are a bunch of folks who will not vote for him…even the Dem or Die people are balking.

We need broad electability. Not what the news people say and not what the whiter than Wonder Bread people in Iowa want to give us (hello, Steve Fucking King anyone?)

I hate that New Hampshire and Iowa whose electorates do not look like the Democratic Party as a whole play such a big role in establishing momentum so early on. Now certain things have changed. Nevada and South Carolina are earlier this time as is California.

139
makeitstop  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:37:48am

re: #134 Jay C

My wife was quite impressed that I could place Dr. Hill’s accent as “somewhere North of Yorkshire” - I looked it up, and she’s from Durham.

I recognized it straight away as the same ‘Northern accent’ often referred to a certain Doctor. :)

140
Patricia Kayden  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:38:23am
141
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:38:32am

re: #136 lawhawk

Holmes is setting fire to every last shred of GOP narrative, and we haven’t even gotten to the Fiona Hill portion of the testimony.

Ayep. Though, I have to admit that after yesterday, today just seems more like the digestif than the main course.

142
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:38:54am

re: #135 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Yes, I find him highly admirable but unqualified.

Still more qualified than Trump in any case…

A lot of people are/were more qualified than Trump so that’s not quite good enough for me. I’ll vote for him if he’s the nominee but he really shouldn’t be running for POTUS. I get he’s polling well and even winning in a couple of em but I guess I think it’s a bit egotistical to go from mayor of a small city to the big show just like that and there’s still a lot he needs to learn.

143
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:39:16am

re: #139 makeitstop

I recognized it straight away as the same ‘Northern accent’ often referred to a certain Doctor. :)

Lots of planets have a North!

//

144
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:40:22am

re: #140 Patricia Kayden

From FDR/Churchill to Reagan/Thatcher, Bush/Blair to Trump/Johnson. We’ve fallen a long way baby.

145
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:40:55am

re: #140 Patricia Kayden

He really is Trump with less money and an even worse haircut.

146
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:41:22am

re: #141 Targetpractice

Ayep. Though, I have to admit that after yesterday, today just seems more like the digestif than the main course.

I think Hill’s going directly at the GOP narrative, such as it exists today, while Sondland caused the GOP to change their narrative after getting blindsided that Sondland said there was a quid pro quo.

Holmes heard the call with Sondland - confirming that he sought an investigation of the Bidens as part of the whole affair.

147
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:42:22am

re: #142 HappyWarrior

A lot of people are/were more qualified than Trump so that’s not quite good enough for me. I’ll vote for him if he’s the nominee but he really shouldn’t be running for POTUS. I get he’s polling well and even winning in a couple of em but I guess I think it’s a bit egotistical to go from mayor of a small city to the big show just like that and there’s still a lot he needs to learn.

Whenever I cannot get away from discussing Trump, I simply point out that he had never held public office, and since his private record is at best patchy, that makes him unqualified in terms of experience, not to mention character.

He has done absolutely nothing to change my opinion.

Pete at least has a transparent and generally admirable record of public service.

Not sufficient for the Presidency IMO, but more than Trump in any case.

148
plansbandc  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:42:34am

re: #127 HappyWarrior

He makes me say, “Dude, no.” way more than “Yes Dude!”

149
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:42:41am

Counsel: Another way to describe that…corrupt?

Holmes: Yes.

150
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:44:00am

re: #146 lawhawk

I think Hill’s going directly at the GOP narrative, such as it exists today, while Sondland caused the GOP to change their narrative after getting blindsided that Sondland said there was a quid pro quo.

Holmes heard the call with Sondland - confirming that he sought an investigation of the Bidens as part of the whole affair.

Fair points. I suspect why I feel the way I do is that Sondland’s testimony yesterday was a total shock to most everybody. By contrast, Dr. Hill and Mr. Holmes seem to be giving us much of what we expected.

151
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:44:19am

re: #145 Eclectic Cyborg

He really is Trump with less money and an even worse haircut.

Funny story. But my cousin’s two children are British/US citizens since their Dad is British and they live in England. Anyhow, my cousin was visiting in July with her two kids. The little boy made a crack about Johnson. My niece who is a year younger also likes making cracks about Trump. My niece doesn’t have any first cousins yet since neither me, my other brother, our brother’s in laws have kids but she always remembers her second cousins from the UK I think because I told her that she had cousins that talked like Peppa Pig which amused her. But it’s also sort of neat since they both have a parent who is not from the US. My cousin’s husband in their case and my SiL in my niece’s case.

152
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:45:11am

re: #147 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

Whenever I cannot get away from discussing Trump, I simply point out that he had never held public office, and since his private record is at best patchy, that makes him unqualified in terms of experience, not to mention character.

He has done absolutely nothing to change my opinion.

Pete at least has a transparent and generally admirable record of public service.

Not sufficient for the Presidency IMO, but more than Trump in any case.

I get that. I just think after this mess I would like someone with a little more experience. If it comes down to him and Trump, of coures I’m votign for Pete. It’s easy but if I have a choice before hand, there’s a few men and women I would vote for before Pete.

153
Dave In Austin  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:46:28am

Just a reminder:

Click to Reveal
Would you buy a used car from this couple?
154
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:47:04am

re: #148 plansbandc

He makes me say, “Dude, no.” way more than “Yes Dude!”

I don’t mind that he’s religious even though I’m agnostic but he’s way way too generous to people who think LGBT people are demonic and ruining society by simply existing open and free. He also likes to play the both sides are to blame for our current problems game way too much. He bugs me more than Biden and Biden is enough to be my grandfather and Pete’s only five years older than I am. Again, there’s a reason why I don’t “Ok Boomer.”

155
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:48:30am
156
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:49:32am

Trump took Rudy’s stance on Ukraine over those of the entire intelligence community.

This is a pattern. Trump didn’t care about facts or logic. He followed those who told Trump what he wanted to hear.

157
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:49:36am

re: #153 Dave In Austin

Just a reminder:

[Embedded content]

Gah! Who opened the Ark of the Covenant?!

158
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:50:57am

re: #155 lawhawk

Awaiting the “Donald Trump was elected to fire people like Fiona Hill” that ignores that her latest presidential employer is some guy named Trump. And yeah he absolutely has done that. I get why she phrased it the way she did but he has. He loves a good conspiracy theory and that’s what is truly alarming about this president. He’ll use conspiracy theories if they fit his narrative rather than facts. I don’t know what the hell Putin has on him but it’s something. Of if it’s not dirt, it’s that Trump trusts Putin more than our own IC which should scare you too.

159
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:51:32am

re: #156 lawhawk

Trump took Rudy’s stance on Ukraine over those of the entire intelligence community.

This is a pattern. Trump didn’t care about facts or logic. He followed those who told Trump what he wanted to hear.

That’s been the pattern throughout his presidency and political career. It’s scary as hell.

160
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:51:42am

re: #141 Targetpractice

Ayep. Though, I have to admit that after yesterday, today just seems more like the digestif than the main course.

sondland implicated everyone and said there’s a doc trail no one’s allowed to see

these two are saying the R’s pushback conspiracy theories are bug nuts

now neither one has used “bug nuts” yet, but it’s still just the first hour

161
Mescalero09  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:52:00am
162
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:52:50am

re: #153 Dave In Austin

Just a reminder:

[Embedded content]

No but both of those pulpit pimps need to be locked up!

163
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:54:12am

Kash Patel is now implicated in giving Trump information outside the usual channels.

Patel is one of Nunes’ people.

164
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:54:32am

re: #136 lawhawk

Holmes is setting fire to every last shred of GOP narrative, and we haven’t even gotten to the Fiona Hill portion of the testimony.

Yeah but why can’t we have our witnesses that testify about Ukraine corruption and how Ukraine hacked the DNC and other imaginary conspiracies we haven’t even thought of yet?

165
makeitstop  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:54:39am

re: #156 lawhawk

Trump took Rudy’s stance on Ukraine over those of the entire intelligence community.

This is a pattern. Trump didn’t care about facts or logic. He followed those who told Trump what he wanted to hear.

I’d wager that his BFF Putin probably told him that Ukraine did it, too.

Everybody knows Putin would never, ever lie to his friend Trump.
/////////////////////

166
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:55:15am

re: #163 lawhawk

Kash Patel is now implicated in giving Trump information outside the usual channels.

Sounds like a rude insult in Klingon.

167
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:55:50am

re: #158 HappyWarrior

Awaiting the “Donald Trump was elected to fire people like Fiona Hill” that ignores that her latest presidential employer is some guy named Trump

And the whole argument about electing him to fire people like NAME is just lame anyway, and completely uncritical and unreasoned.

168
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:56:17am

Hill and Holmes both acknowledge that “Burisma = Bidens” and that anybody who worked in the spring and summer in that area understood that to be the case. You know, other than Volker, Morrison, and Sondland, i.e. the men at the middle of these “drug deals.”

169
b.d. (Where is Rudy?)  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:56:47am

re: #161 Mescalero09

[Embedded content]

what does this mean?

170
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:57:15am
171
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:57:52am

re: #167 Sir John Barron

And the whole argument about electing him to fire people like NAME is just lame anyway, and completely uncritical and unreasoned.

Oh it’s incredibly lame. Both my mom and my dad’s father were lifelong public servants like Vindman, Hill, and the others that have been trashed by Trump and his allies as “the swamp” but the fact of the matter is they’re what keeps the government running. Both my mom and dad’s dad had strong political opinions but they did not act as moderate and liberal democrats during their careers. Trump wants our public servants to be loyal to him. That’s not how the federal government is supposed to work.

172
Jay C  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:58:35am

So basically Holmes and Hill’s public testimony today is going to pin a huge part of the Ukrainian shit on Rudy Giuliani?

So how can the WH spin this?

“Rudy WHO?” ?

173
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:58:51am

re: #170 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

When the guy making the most sense on your panel is this guy, maybe it’s time to shut down shop and just rename your show the “Donald Trump Pep Rally.”

174
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 7:59:12am

re: #172 Jay C

So basically Holmes and Hill’s public testimony today is going to pin a huge part of the Ukrainian shit on Rudy Giuliani?

So how can the WH spin this?

“Rudy WHO?” ?

Rudy just got Trump coffee.

175
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:02:55am

This testimony is amazing.

176
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:04:56am

Break in testimony. Repubs up next after votes.

I will be in a meeting. Thank god.

177
makeitstop  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:05:00am

re: #172 Jay C

So basically Holmes and Hill’s public testimony today is going to pin a huge part of the Ukrainian shit on Rudy Giuliani?

So how can the WH spin this?

“Rudy WHO?” ?

I think Hill’s mission is to discredit the whole Ukraine/Crowdstrike conspiracy theory.

I can’t wait for Nunes to challenge her on it. Sh’e not going to mince words.

178
Belafon  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:06:06am

re: #172 Jay C

So basically Holmes and Hill’s public testimony today is going to pin a huge part of the Ukrainian shit on Rudy Giuliani?

So how can the WH spin this?

“Rudy WHO?” ?

“The buck stops with Rudy.”

179
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:06:14am

re: #177 makeitstop

I think Hill’s mission is to discredit the whole Ukraine/Crowdstrike conspiracy theory.

I can’t wait for Nunes to challenge her on it. Sh’e not going to mince words.

That is the only thing that makes me sad that I will be in a meeting.

I hope someone is live tweeting or commenting. I am going to be fascinated by how that plays out.

180
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:07:09am

I’m half of a mind that Hunter Biden announce he’s willing to testify under oath, just to watch the GOP squirm.

And then Hunter reminds everyone that his actions were legal, no one found any wrongdoing in anything he did, all while Trump’s own kids are busy breaking the law repeatedly while Trump is currently in office.

181
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:11:33am

Reminder: Government funding runs out tonight at Midnight unless the Senate acts before then on the CR.

182
Belafon  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:12:01am

re: #180 lawhawk

I’m half of a mind that Hunter Biden announce he’s willing to testify under oath, just to watch the GOP squirm.

And then Hunter reminds everyone that his actions were legal, no one found any wrongdoing in anything he did, all while Trump’s own kids are busy breaking the law repeatedly while Trump is currently in office.

That would be pretty awesome, except Hunter doesn’t seem like the most stable of people, and the GOP talking points would be “It seems you had a child in Arkansas. How can we trust your testimony here?”

183
Amory Blaine  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:14:10am

Chuck Todd is the textbook example of white male privilege. Middling to low abilities propped up by plutocrats. Human garbage.

184
Jay C  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:14:40am

re: #175 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

This testimony is amazing.

I dunno: this stuff isn’t particularly riveting ( mainly because it’s mostly stuff that has already been reported), but I know it’s important to get it all down on the formal record (and in public).

Schiff is really doing a bang-up job laying out his case: I’m just wondering how Devin Dimbulb and his buffoons are going to try to spin this later.

We had to turn off the TV, Mrs. Jay got a headache from it (And the Republicans weren’t even on yet!)

185
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:16:28am

re: #182 Belafon

That would be pretty awesome, except Hunter doesn’t seem like the most stable of people, and the GOP talking points would be “It seems you had a child in Arkansas. How can we trust your testimony here?”

But then why did they want his testimony? Except, of course, to try to catch him on perjury.

186
Mike Lamb  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:16:32am

re: #102 Citizen K

He definitely comes off as a sincere believer in the collegiality of the Senate, what with his history, and that’s a gigantic fucking landmine when dealing with McConnell, possibly the single most responsible person for the total shredding of comity and norms.

That said…

Essentially this. If Biden is the nom, I will vote for him without hesitation, because Trump absolutely needs to go, any Trump replacement (however unlikely) needs to go, and Dems need some modicum of control back in Washington.

I just fear he will play an even softer hand against the GOP than Obama did initially and find himself even more stonewalled by GOP intransigence than ever. A holding pattern is better than shit actively getting worse, but that’s not comforting to think of when the usual time limit the American electorate gives the Dems to fix GOP fuck-ups looms.

One thing about Biden—I think he has a pretty deep bench to draw from in terms of creating a cabinet. He might have a bit of an advantage there over some of the other candidates. I still much prefer Warren, but if Biden put together an all-star cabinet, and empowered them to implement their vision, we can make a lot of progress. Some big “ifs”, I know.

187
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:19:08am

re: #184 Jay C

I dunno: this stuff isn’t particularly riveting ( mainly because it’s mostly stuff that has already been reported), but I know it’s important to get it all down on the formal record (and in public).

Schiff is really doing a bang-up job laying out his case: I’m just wondering how Devin Dimbulb and his buffoons are going to try to spin this later.

We had to turn off the TV, Mrs. Jay got a headache from it (And the Republicans weren’t even on yet!)

upding for Devin Dimbulb

188
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:19:59am

re: #177 makeitstop

I think Hill’s mission is to discredit the whole Ukraine/Crowdstrike conspiracy theory.

I can’t wait for Nunes to challenge her on it. Sh’e not going to mince words.

She’s really bringing it

189
steve_davis  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:20:38am

CNN at the moment paying a heavy, heavy price for deciding they needed to “balance” their panel. Several panelists look prepared to gang-tackle fat baldy trump flack. Cuomo keeps speaking to him with undisguised contempt.

190
Amory Blaine  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:21:49am

I am convinced with no doubt that our next leader must be a woman. The danger of rewarding POTUS to a man is more malaise mascarading as wisdom. Women don’t have that privilege, imo they will be the ones to tackle the important issues with all of their own abilities. Not propped up by decades of unearned deference that the men “command”.

191
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:22:36am

re: #177 makeitstop

I think Hill’s mission is to discredit the whole Ukraine/Crowdstrike conspiracy theory.

I can’t wait for Nunes to challenge her on it. Sh’e not going to mince words.

i’ve got “bug nuts” within 20 minutes in the pool

if she goes for “bat shit crazy”, i dont know what i’ll do

192
Patricia Kayden  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:23:52am

re: #25 jaunte

193
Yeah Sure WhatEVs  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:24:33am

re: #181 Eclectic Cyborg

Reminder: Government funding runs out tonight at Midnight unless the Senate acts before then on the CR.

I thought a CR was already done on this.

194
Hecuba's daughter  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:24:38am

re: #189 steve_davis

CNN at the moment paying a heavy, heavy price for deciding they needed to “balance” their panel. Several panelists look prepared to gang-tackle fat baldy trump flack. Cuomo keeps speaking to him with undisguised contempt.

MSNBC so much better — they decided they don’t need liars on their panel. However, MSNBC is a partisan network; CNN is supposed to be nonpartisan, which seems to mean that you need flat-earthers to balance those who accept the theory that the earth is round.

195
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:24:59am

re: #182 Belafon

That would be pretty awesome, except Hunter doesn’t seem like the most stable of people, and the GOP talking points would be “It seems you had a child in Arkansas. How can we trust your testimony here?”

ahem “marla maples”

196
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:25:25am

re: #193 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

I thought a CR was already done on this.

Passed the House. Has not passed Senate yet.

197
Jay C  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:26:30am

re: #189 steve_davis

CNN at the moment paying a heavy, heavy price for deciding they needed to “balance” their panel. Several panelists look prepared to gang-tackle fat baldy trump flack. Cuomo keeps speaking to him with undisguised contempt.

All depends on how said flack comes across: as usual with anything Trump-related, most “defenses” typically end up making 1) Trump look worse, and 2) the apologist look like an idiot….

198
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:26:48am

re: #186 Mike Lamb

One thing about Biden—I think he has a pretty deep bench to draw from in terms of creating a cabinet. He might have a bit of an advantage there over some of the other candidates. I still much prefer Warren, but if Biden put together an all-star cabinet, and empowered them to implement their vision, we can make a lot of progress. Some big “ifs”, I know.

no one wants to work for this admin
most any normal person would work for any of the top dems

199
jaunte  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:27:02am
200
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:27:47am

re: #189 steve_davis

CNN at the moment paying a heavy, heavy price for deciding they needed to “balance” their panel. Several panelists look prepared to gang-tackle fat baldy trump flack. Cuomo keeps speaking to him with undisguised contempt.

same thing’s happening on pbs

201
The Pie Overlord!  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:27:49am
202
Belafon  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:28:07am

re: #193 Yeah Sure WhatEVs

I thought a CR was already done on this.

The state of things is described here crfb.org. I can’t copy it because I suspect javascript issues.

203
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:28:49am

re: #199 jaunte

I suspect Nunes will avoid directly questioning Hill for precisely that reason. She might lay all that out for the committee, leading to self-combustion by multiple GOPers.

204
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:31:03am

Ah place this under your Holiday Tree!

205
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:31:37am

prez is hosting a lunch for some senate R’s

blatantly working the jury pool

206
Amory Blaine  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:31:51am

a credible argument can be made that Biden was picked by Obama to allay fears among the lilly white new England states that a bank friendly “centrist” will keep the hordes of the angry poor at bay while reducing their own liabilities.

207
The Pie Overlord!  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:32:11am
208
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:33:10am

cnn is doing the ‘can you hear me now” test live with cuomo’s mom

209
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:33:34am

Lre: #201 The Pie Overlord!

[Embedded content]

Lying sack of shit.

210
plansbandc  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:33:54am

Did you ever get extremely happy over a social engagement getting canceled?

That would be me today.

(Really like the person, was OK with doing it, but the relief of not having to do it. OMG)

Social anxiety is real.

211
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:34:18am

re: #201 The Pie Overlord!

[Embedded content]

Careful, Donny, you’re gonna stress yourself into another “annual physical.”

212
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:35:27am

re: #210 plansbandc

That kind of happened to me yesterday.

I told the guy I’d love to go but couldn’t due to transportation issues. I was worried he’d reply and be like “no worries, bro. I’ll give you a ride” but instead I got “okay, I understand. Catch you later.”

213
Amory Blaine  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:36:14am

When are they coming back to the hearings?

214
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:37:41am

re: #207 The Pie Overlord!

If you had Bibi in the corruption pool getting indicted first, step right up.

He beat out Trump in that respect.

Bibi always had the inside track to that win.

The real question is what this does to the election situation since we’re now in the free-for-all portion of the failure to form a coalition govt under the existing law.

If no one in the Knesset can form a coalition govt within the next month, it’ll mean Rivlin will have to call for new elections that aren’t any more likely to result in a new election. At least, that’s what you’d think before Bibi’s indictment.

Now that he’s indicted, does the #2 in Likud make his own move to distinguish himself and seek to form a coalition govt that Ganz is willing to go with.

So much of Israeli politics revolves around personalities, so that even though voters vote on slates to fill knesset seats, the parties are really a reflection of the party leader(s). With Bibi sidelined, it opens up opportunities for a new direction for Likud.

215
Jay C  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:37:54am

re: #205 DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)

prez is hosting a lunch for some senate R’s

blatantly working the jury pool

Heh. Wonder if they would all tell him:
“Better have Melania call the movers - we’re all gonna vote “Guilty” ?

216
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:39:52am

re: #207 The Pie Overlord!

[Embedded content]

Glorious to see so much Karmic retribution today!

217
Patricia Kayden  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:39:58am

Wowzers!! May the same happen to his pal, Donald.

218
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:41:00am

re: #189 steve_davis

CNN at the moment paying a heavy, heavy price for deciding they needed to “balance” their panel. Several panelists look prepared to gang-tackle fat baldy trump flack. Cuomo keeps speaking to him with undisguised contempt.

Ayeah, he’s insisting upon a standard of evidence he knows will not be achieved because the relevant people are being prevented from testifying. He insists that there needs to be somebody who says “the aid was withheld by OMB to get the investigations,” gets read Mick Mulvaney’s own words to that effect…and says that it doesn’t count because Mulvaney didn’t say it under oath before Congress.

219
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:42:39am
220
Jay C  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:44:36am

re: #214 lawhawk

So, indictments notwithstanding, does Bibi have to “step aside” or “step down”?

AFAIC, it would be entirely in character for him to simply say “Screw you, see you in court”, and just go on with his crooked politicking unless/until the police physically haul him out of his office….

221
steve_davis  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:45:20am

re: #210 plansbandc

Did you ever get extremely happy over a social engagement getting canceled?

That would be me today.

(Really like the person, was OK with doing it, but the relief of not having to do it. OMG)

Social anxiety is real.

Never mind original post. That was not a reply :-)

222
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:47:53am

re: #214 lawhawk

If you had Bibi in the corruption pool getting indicted first, step right up.

He beat out Trump in that respect.

Bibi always had the inside track to that win.

The real question is what this does to the election situation since we’re now in the free-for-all portion of the failure to form a coalition govt under the existing law.

If no one in the Knesset can form a coalition govt within the next month, it’ll mean Rivlin will have to call for new elections that aren’t any more likely to result in a new election. At least, that’s what you’d think before Bibi’s indictment.

Now that he’s indicted, does the #2 in Likud make his own move to distinguish himself and seek to form a coalition govt that Ganz is willing to go with.

So much of Israeli politics revolves around personalities, so that even though voters vote on slates to fill knesset seats, the parties are really a reflection of the party leader(s). With Bibi sidelined, it opens up opportunities for a new direction for Likud.

That’s the danger of full proportional representation. If the threshold was raised to 5% a lot of those splinter parties would be eliminated and it would be easier to form a coalition!

223
plansbandc  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:48:05am
224
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:48:09am
225
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:48:44am

re: #210 plansbandc

Did you ever get extremely happy over a social engagement getting canceled?

That would be me today.

(Really like the person, was OK with doing it, but the relief of not having to do it. OMG)

Social anxiety is real.

Yes, it often takes an awful lot of effort on my part to talk myself into them and I am sometimes more relieved than disappointed when they are cancelled.

I am looking forward to Thanksgiving dinner with some expat friends next week, though.

226
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:48:51am

re: #220 Jay C

He’s got a presser scheduled for later today, so we’ll see his position.

It’s also important to note who else was involved in the indictments:

Netanyahu is accused of involvement in a media bribery scheme in which Walla! owner Shaul Elovitch gave him positive coverage in exchange for Netanyahu making government policies favor Elovitch’s Bezeq company to the tune of around NIS 1.8 billion.
In Case 1000, Netanyahu is accused of receiving hundreds of thousands of shekels in gifts from rich tycoons, mostly from Arnon Milchin, in exchange for a variety of help with business and personal-legal initiatives. The charge itself is for acting in situations in which Netantahu had a conflict of interest, since no actual quid pro quo could be proven.
In Case 2000, Netanyahu was accused of working with Yediot and Yisrael Hayom to reduce Yisrael Hayom’s competition with Yediot in exchange for positive coverage for Netanyahu in Yediot. The deal never went through, but the law has crimes of attempted bribery and breach of trust which can apply even if a deal does not go through.

Bibi was working with and against various media outlets to damage his rivals.

227
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:48:53am

re: #224 Targetpractice

[Embedded content]

Exactly

228
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:51:04am

re: #222 Joe Bacon 🌹

I think the threshold would need to be much higher than that. And it still wouldn’t result in a party that could get to a majority without forming a coalition.

I think you’d need to get a threshold of at least 15 to eliminate much of the splintering we see right now - or the formation of joint lists.

One of the reasons for the low threshold is the notion that the Israeli government should reflect all the views of the Israeli electorate. That invariably leads to chaos and inability to form a govt.

229
stpaulbear  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:52:00am

re: #89 makeitstop

Not to be completely superficial here, but Fiona Hill’s accent has completely won me over already. :)

I loved her comment about how her “working class” accent would have prevented her from rising in the ranks in England. She made a point about how her accent in no way affected her ability to advance in the US. It was a surprising statement.

230
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:52:11am

Also, in the same statement, Nancy made clear that the Dems do not intend to wait out every single court case just to get testimony that might help their case against Trump. They feel that they have enough evidence now to make the case and plan to move forward without those witnesses. That they could be made available to the Senate trial, depending on the timeline there, but the Dems are not going to play the WH’s game of waiting weeks or months per witness. The calculus seems to be that it hurts the WH’s case more than it helps to have these witnesses gagged at Trump’s order.

231
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:53:55am

At the time, the GOP was sharply divided between pro-labor liberals like Nelson Rockefeller (though he wasn’t yet the leader) and the stridently anti-labor Taft faction (of Taft-Hartley fame). This division dated back a long way. In 1940, for example, the Taft Republicans were the backbone of the pro-Nazi isolationist movement, but the nomination was actually won by a visionary internationalist, Wendell Wilkie. The latter was probably to the left of FDR himself on many issues, particularly segregation and racial justice.

232
Sir John Barron  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:54:58am

re: #210 plansbandc

Did you ever get extremely happy over a social engagement getting canceled?

That would be me today.

(Really like the person, was OK with doing it, but the relief of not having to do it. OMG)

Social anxiety is real.

I feel ya

233
Belafon  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:56:18am

re: #229 stpaulbear

I loved her comment about how her “working class” accent would have prevented her from rising in the ranks in England. She made a point about how her accent in no way affected her ability to advance in the US. It was a surprising statement.

“This is a great country. One party is trying to f it up.”

234
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:57:35am

re: #231 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

[Embedded content]

At the time, the GOP was sharply divided between pro-labor liberals like Nelson Rockefeller (though he wasn’t yet the leader) and the stridently anti-labor Taft faction (of Taft-Hartley fame). This division dated back a long way. In 1940, for example, the Taft Republicans were the backbone of the pro-Nazi isolationist movement, but the nomination was actually won by a visionary internationalist, Wendell Wilkie. The latter was probably to the left of FDR himself on many issues, particularly segregation and racial justice.

Willkie if he hadn’t died prematurely could have been a great leader for the GOP post WWII. Not presidential material but a fine man.

235
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:57:55am

re: #233 Belafon

“This is a great country. One party is trying to f it up.”

yes, it goes beyond simply not doing its job (like the McConnel Senate) but by inflicting long-term or permanent damage on the Judiciary and on foreign policy & trade relations

236
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 8:58:55am

re: #234 HappyWarrior

Willkie if he hadn’t died prematurely could have been a great leader for the GOP post WWII. Not presidential material but a fine man.

I found an old Dewey-Warren campaign button among my family heirlooms. I display it proudly

237
plansbandc  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:00:41am
238
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:02:05am

re: #230 Targetpractice

Also, in the same statement, Nancy made clear that the Dems do not intend to wait out every single court case just to get testimony that might help their case against Trump. They feel that they have enough evidence now to make the case and plan to move forward without those witnesses. That they could be made available to the Senate trial, depending on the timeline there, but the Dems are not going to play the WH’s game of waiting weeks or months per witness. The calculus seems to be that it hurts the WH’s case more than it helps to have these witnesses gagged at Trump’s order.

all of that will likely go into the obstruction of justice article

239
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:02:24am

re: #234 HappyWarrior

Willkie if he hadn’t died prematurely could have been a great leader for the GOP post WWII. Not presidential material but a fine man.

He was actually younger than Eisenhower (born 1892 vs. 1890). If he had survived his heart attack at age 52, he could have been a factor into the 1970s.

240
stpaulbear  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:02:24am

I’m feeling sorry for this guy on C-Span who has to stand and listen to caller comments while the hearing is on a l-o-n-g break. I’ve got the sound muted but every time I check in he’s just rocking back and forth with a ‘whatever’ look on his face.

241
Disloyal Archangel  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:02:59am

“The State of Israel Against Binyamin Netanyahu”

This leading headline from Israel’s largest news site will probably be dwarfed by the ones to be printed in the Friday morning papers in Israel (a little piece of timing that simply couldn’t be worse for Netanyahu news-wise - Israel’s Friday morning papers have a bit of cultural impact that’s unique in a country that formally shuts down between Friday afternoon and Saturday evening).
Mind you, as bad as having indictments for not one but 3 different cases might be, the worst is actually yet to come for Bibi. Of the four investigations that Netanyahu was involved in (known as Cases 1000, 2000, 3000 and 4000), the most volatile of them all hasn’t been concluded yet - Case 3000. That one involves allegations of corruption surrounding the sale of submarines to Israel and has national security aspects that makes it so much more significant than any of the indictments of the other cases.
That it’s still being held back at this point is telling.

242
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:03:14am

re: #236 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I found an old Dewey-Warren campaign button among my family heirlooms. I display it proudly

Would have voted for Truman but Dewey was good too. The real downhill slope begins imo when the GOP welcomed Strom Thurmond into the party in ‘62.

243
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:03:57am

re: #239 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

He was actually younger than Eisenhower (born 1892 vs. 1890). If he had survived his heart attack at age 52, he could have been a factor into the 1970s.

So many what ifs of history. I like Ike too tho.

244
sagehen  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:04:26am

re: #139 makeitstop

I recognized it straight away as the same ‘Northern accent’ often referred to a certain Doctor. :)

“That doesn’t have to mean North of England. Lots of countries have a North.”

245
LadyBehir  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:08:01am

Lots of planets have a North.

Need moar grandbaby pictures, not fewer, from the Grandmother Extraordinaire.

246
Patricia Kayden  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:08:26am

Meanwhile in the Senate

247
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:09:48am

re: #246 Patricia Kayden

Meanwhile in the Senate

[Embedded content]

This is why I reluctantly support packing scotus.

248
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:10:04am

current mood - hearings notwithstanding

YouTube

249
Jebediah, RBG  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:13:32am

re: #85 The Pie Overlord!

OK one more baby picture and then I’ll stop, I promise!

[Embedded content]

1FWfr8JeOPTLltGTDFDMGhYdJZLvrJo4

250
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:15:59am

re: #246 Patricia Kayden

Meanwhile in the Senate

[Embedded content]

They’re going to ram through as many as they can as fast they can.

251
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:18:08am

re: #242 HappyWarrior

Would have voted for Truman but Dewey was good too. The real downhill slope begins imo when the GOP welcomed Strom Thurmond into the party in ‘62.

Dewey may be best known today as the butt of this famous photograph:

That wasn’t his only moment of embarrassing over-confidence though.

On election night, Dewey asked his wife, “How will it be to sleep with the president of the United States?” She replied, “A high honor, and quite frankly, darling, I’m looking forward to it.”

Next morning, at breakfast, after Dewey’s defeat, Mrs. Dewey said, “Tell me, Tom, am I going to Washington or is Harry coming here?”

252
Disloyal Archangel  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:18:37am

re: #85 The Pie Overlord!

OK one more baby picture and then I’ll stop, I promise!

[Embedded content]

3wnp53l1DEuAk4CePXLFGheqVo5TOmx9p8vsYYdsObSAB2sODi60ZgQdW1Has7Az

253
lawhawk  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:20:11am

re: #237 plansbandc

254
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:20:15am

re: #251 Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel

Dewey may be best known today as the butt of this famous photograph:

[Embedded content]

That wasn’t his only moment of embarrassing over-confidence though.

Haha. Never heard that one about Mrs. Dewey. From what I recall it was Dewey who advised Ike to select that bushy eye browed guy from Whittier as his running mate.

255
Flying Squirrel Girl  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:21:50am

Hope someone takes him up on the offer:

256
Flying Squirrel Girl  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:22:51am

He’s putting it out there:

257
Eclectic Cyborg  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:24:47am

re: #256 Flying Squirrel Girl

It’s not a quid pro quo, he’ s offering nothing in return.

Or was he being sarcastic there?

258
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:25:08am

re: #254 HappyWarrior

Haha. Never heard that one about Mrs. Dewey. From what I recall it was Dewey who advised Ike to select that bushy eye browed guy from Whittier as his running mate.

Grandpa told that about Charles Evans Hughes in 1916…

259
HappyWarrior  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:27:07am

re: #258 Joe Bacon 🌹

Grandpa told that about Charles Evans Hughes in 1916…

Yeah that was another one that surprised people. I do wonder how history turns out if Hughes wins in ‘16. From the little I know of Justice Hughes, he was more progressive minded than Taft but more conservative than Teddy Roosevelt. I have no idea how he deals with WWI or the rise of the industrial unions and leftist movements of that period. I’m not a fan of Wilson which is funny since Wilson’s FP probably closest matches mine of the prominent people in that period.

260
sagehen  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:28:36am

re: #229 stpaulbear

I loved her comment about how her “working class” accent would have prevented her from rising in the ranks in England. She made a point about how her accent in no way affected her ability to advance in the US. It was a surprising statement.

Because by American aesthetics, her accent is utterly charming.

(ETA: Chuck Yeager’s accent is part of what kept him off the astronaut list. Everyone knew he was the best test pilot on the base, but the military’s PR team didn’t want a guy from West Virginia representing them on TV and radio.)

261
Jay C  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:32:55am

re: #260 sagehen

Because by American aesthetics, her accent is utterly charming.

While Brits will probably hear that specific set of vowel tones and think: “God, how grating!!”

262
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:33:03am

re: #248 DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)

current mood - hearings notwithstanding

Video

I bought that album when it came out.

263
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:38:15am

re: #258 Joe Bacon 🌹

Grandpa told that about Charles Evans Hughes in 1916…

The story may date back to ancient Greece for all I know but it’s probably most widely associated with Dewey as a semi-mythical illustration of electoral hubris.

264
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:45:50am

I dedicate this next song to the members of this committee, who seem to be dragging ass to get back:

Jeopardy Theme

265
Shiplord Kirel, Friend of Moose and Squirrel  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:45:54am

re: #259 HappyWarrior

Yeah that was another one that surprised people. I do wonder how history turns out if Hughes wins in ‘16. From the little I know of Justice Hughes, he was more progressive minded than Taft but more conservative than Teddy Roosevelt. I have no idea how he deals with WWI or the rise of the industrial unions and leftist movements of that period. I’m not a fan of Wilson which is funny since Wilson’s FP probably closest matches mine of the prominent people in that period.

Teddy Roosevelt loyally backed Hughes in 1916 but didn’t especially like him, referring to him as “the bearded lady” and “Wilson with whiskers.”

266
Joe Bacon 🌹  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:47:01am

267
Charles Johnson  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:47:07am
268
DangerMan (misuser of the sarc tag)  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:48:04am

re: #264 Targetpractice

I dedicate this next song to the members of this committee, who seem to be dragging ass to get back:

[Embedded content]

269
Targetpractice  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:49:03am

re: #267 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

So, who wants to point out to them that they were doing Putin’s job by attempting to set the stage that if Joe Biden did win next year, his own legitimacy would be in question due to “investigations” into him and his son?

270
stpaulbear  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:54:39am

Hill and Holmes are back in the chamber. Hopefully be starting up again soon.

I don’t think I can stand listening to Nunes and Co. cross-exam. They won’t dare ask any questions. It’s going to be rants all the way down.

271
Florida Panhandler  Nov 21, 2019 • 9:58:04am

re: #267 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Russia’s goal is not to delegitimize the President of the United States. Putin’s goal is to delegitimize the United States itself. President Trump is incompetent. Causing him to be elected via the Electoral College as per the present Constitution was the method used to undermine US standing and authority in the world.

Putin’s operational attack on the US has been the most successful on a cost/benefit ratio since 9/11. Decades from now history classes the world over will marvel at Putin’s tremendous success in undermining an enemy country from within and leveraging the power of social media in utilizing tribal notions of white supremacy to greatly decrease US hegemony.

272
Eric The Fruit Bat  Nov 21, 2019 • 10:06:42am

re: #245 LadyBehir

Need moar grandbaby pictures, not fewer, from the Grandmother Extraordinaire.

What’s the Hebrew translation of ‘Quiverfull’?


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