Our Friends the Saudis

World • Views: 3,112

The highest Islamic authority in Saudi Arabia comes out strongly in favor of child molestation.

Saudi Arabia’s most senior Muslim cleric has been quoted as saying it is ‘okay’ for 10-year-old girls to marry.

Sheik Abdul-Aziz Al Sheikh was quoted as saying those who think such girls are too young to marry are doing them an injustice. Al-Hayat newspaper quotes Sheik Abdul-Aziz Al Sheikh, the country’s grand mufti, as also saying during a lecture on Monday that critics who say women should not marry before the age of 25 are following a ‘bad path’.

The mufti’s comments showed the conservative clergy’s opposition to a drive by Saudi rights groups, including government ones, to define the age of marriage and put an end to the phenomenon of child marriages.

‘It is wrong to say it’s not permitted to marry off girls who are 15 and younger,’ Sheik Abdul-Aziz Al Sheikh was quoted as saying.

‘A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable and those who think she’s too young are wrong and are being unfair to her,’ he said during a Monday lecture, according to the pan-Arab Al-Hayat newspaper.

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953 comments
1 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:57:14am

Islam, it's for the kids

2 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:57:18am

Oy vay!

3 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:57:25am

Are we SURE this isn't a planted story?

'Cause, there's a whole bunch of this stuff I read out there, and I gotta tell ya', it makes the Muslims look pretty bad.

//

4 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:57:25am
A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable and those who think she’s too young are wrong and are being unfair to her

That's the most warped thing I've read in a while.

5 Sizzlack  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:57:29am

I give it fifteen minutes before someone from UC Berkeley comes up with a way to excuse this in the name of religious tolerance.

6 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:57:51am

Sick. Sick. Sick. This asshat is SICK in the moral dept.
bigtime.

7 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:58:16am

I won't be surprised if a Muslim is caught molesting children in the US, and claims he is being persecuted because of his religious beliefs.
The ACLU and other leftards will be jumping all over themselves to defend him.

8 Diamond Bullet  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:58:18am
‘A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable and those who think she’s too young are wrong and are being unfair to her,’

Ahh...so it's a ruling in FAVOR of women's rights. Now I get it.

/

9 dhg4  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:58:33am

I never understand why it is the Left that stands up for the religious, misogynistic regimes of the Middle East at the expense of Israel. I realize that there are folks like Pat Buchanan, but for the most part the Israel-bashers are of the Left, and yet they give aid and comfort to those whose values are presumably antithetical to their own.

10 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:58:59am

10-year-olds? I see they're chasing after older women now.

11 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:59:35am
12 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:59:40am
... being unfair to HER.

Methinks the grand mufti has a grand case of projection.

13 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:00:29am

Of course- mohammed had a child bride, so they see it as permissible.

14 pat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:00:32am

If you bring up the child right train the slave, you will have no problems teaching her duties.

15 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:00:38am

do it for the kids*

damn edit buttons aren't existent here ;)

16 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:00:46am

The grand mufti doesn't want to be hard on little girls.

/or does he?

17 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:01:21am

Saudi Arabia National Bring Your ChildSpouse to Work Day!

18 Sizzlack  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:01:31am
‘A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable and those who think she’s too young are wrong and are being unfair to her,’

I thought being unfair to a 10-12 year old was saying they could not see the latest PG-13 movie.

But clearly to the Saudis 4th grade is the ideal age for marriage.

19 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:01:40am

re: #7 Kosh's Shadow

I won't be surprised if a Muslim is caught molesting children in the US, and claims he is being persecuted because of his religious beliefs.
The ACLU and other leftards will be jumping all over themselves to defend him.

Seeing how so many people want to start using International Laws as a mainspring for American Jurisprudence I would not be surprised if some non-Muslim child molester used this as a defense.

Michael Jackson must be loving his recent conversion to Islam now.

20 davinvalkri  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:02:08am

Quick, somebody call social services and the battered women's shelters...what do you mean they don't have those in Saudi Arabia?!
Oh right, they're backwards morons!

21 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:02:16am

re: #17 wiffersnapper

Saudi Arabia National Bring Your ChildSpouse to Work Day!

From what I hear about Arab consanguinity, six of one, a half-dozen of the other.

22 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:02:18am

This promotion of marriage of children and the acceptance of multiple wives is nothing more than encouraging the rapid growth of the Islamic populace.

23 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:02:36am

How could they have concluded otherwise?
Mohammed's going after Aisha set the example for Muslims to follow.

24 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:02:40am

Maybe the UN would like to weigh in on this?

25 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:02:58am

Married at 10, stoned to death at 11. Sunrise, Sunset.

26 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:03:17am

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Maybe the UN would like to weigh in on this?

The only thing they have been doing lately is condemn Israel and the US.

27 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:03:18am

Women get short-shrift all over the Islamic world.

One morning two months ago, Shamsia Husseini and her sister were walking through the muddy streets to the local girls' school when a man pulled alongside on a motorcycle and posed what seemed like an ordinary question.

"Are you going to school?" Then the man pulled Shamsia's burqa from her head and sprayed her face with burning acid. Scars, jagged and discolored, are now spread across Shamsia's eyelids and most of her left cheek. These days, her vision goes blurry, making it hard to read.

But if the acid attacks against Shamsia and 14 other students and teachers, which carried the tell-tale marks of the Taliban, were meant to terrorize the girls into staying home, they appear to have failed completely.

Today, nearly all of the wounded girls are back at the Mirwais School for Girls, including Shamsia, whose face was so badly burnt that she had to be sent abroad for treatment. Perhaps even more remarkable, nearly every other female student in this deeply conservative community has returned as well - about 1,300 in all.

"My parents told me to keep coming to school even if I am killed," Shamsia, 17, said in a moment after class. Shamsia's mother, like nearly all of the adult women in the area, is unable to read or write. "The people who did this to me don't want women to be educated. They want us to be stupid things."

In the five years since the Mirwais School for Girls was built here by the Japanese government, it appears to have sparked something of a social revolution. Even as the Taliban tighten their noose around Kandahar, the girls flock to the school each morning. Many of them walk more than three kilometers, or two miles, from their mud-brick houses up in the hills.

The girls burst through the school's walled compound, many of them flinging off head-to-toe garments, bounding, cheering and laughing in ways that are inconceivable outside - for females of any age. In Mirwais's muddy byways, there is no regular electricity, no running water, no paved streets. Women are rarely seen, and only then while clad in burqas that make their bodies shapeless and their faces invisible.

SNIP

After class, Shamsia blended in with the other girls, standing around and laughing and joking.

She seemed unselfconscious of her disfigurement, until she began to recount her ordeal.

"The people who did this," she said, "do not feel the pain of others."

28 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:03:36am

In a related development, they're now holding the prom in kindergarten.

29 pat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:03:38am

re: #9 dhg4

I never understand why it is the Left that stands up for the religious, misogynistic regimes of the Middle East at the expense of Israel. I realize that there are folks like Pat Buchanan, but for the most part the Israel-bashers are of the Left, and yet they give aid and comfort to those whose values are presumably antithetical to their own.

Perhaps they are not so antithetical. There is a strong hedonistic, pedophilic, sadistic, strain of thought in left.

30 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:03:38am

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Maybe the UN would like to weigh get in on this?

Fixed it for ya/

31 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:03:42am

Arab's are hurting the feelings of all their male camels, swiping their girl friends.

Perhaps an inter-species marriage would be in order.

/Barney Frank could advise upon it

32 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:03:49am

re: #28 JammieWearingFool

lol

33 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:03:54am

re: #19 FurryOldGuyJeans

Seeing how so many people want to start using International Laws as a mainspring for American Jurisprudence I would not be surprised if some non-Muslim child molester used this as a defense.

Michael Jackson must be loving his recent conversion to Islam now.

The Mufti spoke about underage girls not underage boys. But I'm sure a lecture will address this in the near future, one I'm sure Jackson will eagerly attend.

34 Sizzlack  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:04:01am

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Maybe the UN would like to weigh in on this?

Hah. Yea the UN will probably say 10 is too old.

35 bulwrk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:04:12am

If you marry three ten year old's its the same as marring one thirty year old.

Islamic math
/

36 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:04:26am

'A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable and those who think she’s too young are wrong and are being unfair to her,’ he said during a Monday lecture, according to the pan-Arab Al-Hayat newspaper.

Unfair to HER? I think not goat-fu**er! HER feelings, attitude and emotional well being are not even in consideration here and you know that's true.

37 davinvalkri  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:04:43am

re: #25 wiffersnapper

Married at 10, stoned to death at 11. Sunrise, Sunset.

But remember, it's the western world that discriminates against women!
/argh!

38 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:04:43am

re: #7 Kosh's Shadow

I won't be surprised if a Muslim is caught molesting children in the US, and claims he is being persecuted because of his religious beliefs.
The ACLU and other leftards will be jumping all over themselves to defend him.

it will happen without a doubt....just when

39 broomer  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:04:54am

Carry over from the other thread:

Muqata Channel 10 News: CeaseFire agreement between Israel and Hamas does not include return of kidnapped IDF soldier, Gilad Shalit.

Absolutely disgusting!

40 Dar ul Harb  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:05:01am

re: #23 Dar ul Harb

Along with normalizing countless other types of violence, cruelty and depravity.

41 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:05:10am

They use religion to justify child molestation and terrorism, but what's worse is we have people who defend this with protests, people preventing our soldiers from learning about this, and a media completely blind, deaf and mute on this and think they're doing it for diversity, peace, and inclusiveness.

They're really enabling child rape.

42 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:05:16am

They can't even sell them off for beer! What's the point then?

43 Sizzlack  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:05:26am

re: #35 bulwrk

If you marry three ten year old'scamels its the same as marring one thirty year old.

Islamic math
/

Much better.

44 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:05:51am

re: #5 Sizzlack

I give it fifteen minutes before someone from UC Berkeley comes up with a way to excuse this in the name of religious tolerance.

Didn't Jocelyn Elders, Clinton's Surgeon General, write the forward to a book suggesting that parents should actively teach sexual activity to children?

This isn't just an Islamic thing. It's also a leftist thing.

45 toadbelly  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:05:52am

Happy Imam: So what's the problem, the prophet Mohamed, Allah be praised, did it so why not us? He also killed Jews so what? What's the problem here, kill Jews and marry 10 year old girls- what?
Just don't marry a 10 year old Jew girl, then there's a problem. Unless of course you "convert" her first, then she can help you kill Jews too.

46 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:05:52am

Fucking savages

47 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:06:04am

Umm... you guys have it all wrong. He's going to get himself fatwa'd, because he didn't authorize marrying girls young enough. They're supposed to be six years old, just as Mohammad had done with Aisha. He's violating hadiths and Sharia. /

This is yet another manifestation of the misogynistic society imposed by Islamic law.

48 Sabnen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:06:14am

re: #22 notutopia

This promotion of marriage of children and the acceptance of multiple wives is nothing more than encouraging the rapid growth of the Islamic populace.

10 year olds cannot reproduce unless these children are unusually mature.

49 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:06:31am

re: #24 Walter L. Newton

Maybe the UN would like to weigh in on this?


Ha,ha, ha! Thanks for the chuckle Walter!

50 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:06:35am

It's such a modern, up-to-date religion.

51 Gella  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:06:56am

so she can't procreate at 10, but u can marry her? there is not enough therapy for these kids

52 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:07:00am

re: #12 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I posted a response to your question on the past thread. I don't know how to link it like you did mine, but it's near the end.

53 soccerdad  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:07:09am

Is it too late to add this guy to the Fiskie list?

54 Elcid  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:07:18am

What Would Mo'Do (as differentiated from MoDo who in reality, is a much an idiot as Islamics, her who couldn't get laid in a mens prison, A fudgie, maybe...That's what their use to).

Why Mo'Do took a nine year old, isn't that correct?

55 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:07:18am

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

56 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:07:48am

re: #53 soccerdad

Is it too late to add this guy to the Fiskie list?

I think, nay, I hope, he's on the Almighty's List.

57 Sizzlack  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:07:53am

re: #44 Taqiyyotomist

While I agree, there is definitely a difference between teaching your 10 year old about sex and marrying your 10 year old off to actually have sex.

They're both creepy, the second being far, far worse.

58 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:07:57am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

They've defined evil.

59 UberInfidel67  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:08:01am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101 **crickets**

60 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:08:13am

re: #28 JammieWearingFool Huh, I thought for sure it was pre-school!
These people are barbarians. Period.

61 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:08:14am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

I can name things DEstructive!

62 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:08:18am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

Carpets

63 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:08:21am

Why do men want to "marry" a little girl? Aren't they a little bit underdeveloped in all areas? Doesn't nature's voice shout out the obvious? I don't get it at all.

64 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:08:32am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

It caused me to learn history.

65 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:08:47am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

Population Control.

////

66 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:08:48am

Bombs

67 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:08:56am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

Made a lot of work for folks in the metal-detector, explosives-sniffing industries. Made (and, sadly, filled) a lot of jobs as airport screeners.

68 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:08:59am
69 davinvalkri  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:09:09am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

Algebra (much to the lament of students everywhere) but that was over a millennia ago. Architechturally interesting structures, but again, about 700 years ago, and primarily for mosques. I haven't got a clue what they've contributed other than piracy and pain for the past 233 years.

70 Gella  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:09:41am

i say, castrate them

71 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:09:50am

He can't imagine a higher calling than allowing a 60 year old geezer to shove his tongue down the throat of a 10 year old - and worse. Kind of like sexual martyrdom.

72 LGoPs  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:10:05am

What a bunch of madcap knuckleheads....ya just gotta love 'em....
////////*Spit*

73 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:10:18am

There is no minimum age under Shariah law, girls are sometimes married off at 8 years old to get the dowry. According to the Shariah, marriage can be held but it can be consummated only when a girl reaches puberty. (Yea, right /s)

74 bulwrk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:10:20am

re: #69 davinvalkri

Those predate islam

75 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:10:20am

re: #57 Sizzlack

I don't think you quite understand what I wrote, or I wrote it unclearly.
She wrote the forward to a book encouraging parents to engage in sexual activity with their children.

76 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:10:21am

re: #63 midwestgak

Why do men want to "marry" a little girl? Aren't they a little bit underdeveloped in all areas? Doesn't nature's voice shout out the obvious? I don't get it at all.

Because they can control them completely both physically and psychologically.

77 SummerSong  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:10:24am

"..critics who say women should not marry before the age of 25 are following a ‘bad path’.

Oh sure, God forbid you marry an adult.

78 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:10:46am
79 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:10:49am

re: #77 SummerSong

"..critics who say women should not marry before the age of 25 are following a ‘bad path’.

Oh sure, God forbid you marry an adult.

Allah forbid*

80 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:11:08am

We're talking about little girls married off to older men, likely with other wives already, and who knows how old these men are. Anywhere from 20s to 80s. Imagine being a ten year old girl on her wedding night with an 80 year old man.

Disgusting.

And it's wonderful to hear there's a rights group in saudi arabia that's working against this and they haven't been banned or bombed. Best of luck to them in stopping this nightmare.

81 Gella  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:11:24am

re: #77 SummerSong

well D'oH u can't make her into ur slave

82 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:11:24am

So basically, aside from torturing students with math and a few cool looking buildings, the Islamic World has contributed nothing to the planet that contributes to the greater good.

I think if I was a Muslim, I'd feel like a loser.

83 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:11:37am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

They stored some Aristotle for us.

84 Lee Coller  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:11:53am

Not surprising from a society that refuses to treat women of any age as adults.

85 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:05am

Actually, they are pretty smart.

They have figured out how to let Westerners build great nations and weapons. Then take over their media and their countries without using any weapons.

86 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:10am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

Nothing they didn't steal from some other culture.

87 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:13am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

The aquaduct?

88 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:19am

re: #80 Sharmuta

We're talking about little girls married off to older men, likely with other wives already, and who knows how old these men are. Anywhere from 20s to 80s. Imagine being a ten year old girl on her wedding night with an 80 year old man.

Disgusting.

And it's wonderful to hear there's a rights group in saudi arabia that's working against this and they haven't been banned or bombed. Best of luck to them in stopping this nightmare.

Don't you think Saudi Arabia is obsessed with gaining the world's respect?/sarc

89 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:20am
‘A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable and those who think she’s too young are wrong and are being unfair to her,’ he said during a Monday lecture, according to the pan-Arab Al-Hayat newspaper.

Taqiyya

90 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:26am
91 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:27am

re: #63 midwestgak
Hi ya gak! You're not supposed to get it!
They want to marry females who have no sexual experiences so they can compare those to the performance (or lack thereof) of their "husband".

92 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:37am

re: #87 spirochete

The aquaduct?

Wasn't that the Romans?

93 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:42am

re: #39 broomer

Carry over from the other thread:

Muqata Channel 10 News: CeaseFire agreement between Israel and Hamas does not include return of kidnapped IDF soldier, Gilad Shalit.

Absolutely disgusting!

If they agree to that, they might as well pull donw the flag of Israel and emigrate, lock stock and barrel, all of them.

However - I don't quite believe what TV channels, even sIsaeli oens, are saying.

'Hamas says will reject ceasefires that would 'harm resistance', reports ynet.

So, lets keep our cool ...

94 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:49am
95 LGoPs  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:12:56am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

Helping us calibrate our GPS targeting systems.....?

96 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:05am

The Ummah is a nightmare world.

97 davinvalkri  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:05am

re: #78 buzzsawmonkey

Algebra was not an Islamic invention; by most accounts, the Muslims merely claimed credit (and supplied an Arabic name for) something they came across in India.

Silly me, then. Scratch that off the list.

98 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:06am

re: #48 Sabnen

10 year olds cannot reproduce unless these children are unusually mature.

This is an article on Islamic Fertility. It is a fact that it is in a decline. What better way to increase the populace than to implore more possibility of conception success at an earlier age...
[Link: www.prb.org...]

99 wiffersnapper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:06am

re: #90 buzzsawmonkey

Like firearms in a mosque

100 Sizzlack  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:09am

re: #75 Taqiyyotomist

I don't think you quite understand what I wrote, or I wrote it unclearly.
She wrote the forward to a book encouraging parents to engage in sexual activity with their children.

Ok I definitely misunderstood you. So she was advocating incest and pedophilia? And people haven't burned her at the stake yet?

101 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:19am

"Conservative clergy"

There you go.

The press uses the word "conservative" when the term should be:
• "14th century throwback clergy" or
• "radical islamist clergy" or
• "this is where Saudi oli money goes when not spent on hookers and boys in the French Riviera clergy"

102 Pyrocles  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:25am

The founder of his religion married a six-year-old, consumating the marriage when she was nine. How can a cleric of that faith be expected to think differently?

103 bulwrk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:26am

re: #87 spirochete

Sorry, Rome

104 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:27am

re: #87 spirochete

The aquaduct?

Sorry, that was the Romans.

105 Sabnen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:44am

re: #68 buzzsawmonkey

But it takes a few years for the husband to whip 'em into shape.

Yes. I think you are correct . . . they literally 'whip' them into shape.

Okay, who swiped my anti-depressants?! I've thought enough about this!

106 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:50am

re: #78 buzzsawmonkey

Algebra was not an Islamic invention; by most accounts, the Muslims merely claimed credit (and supplied an Arabic name for) something they came across in India.

The Muslims at one time were a great cataloger of knowledge, which filtered to the West following the Crusades. The West and Christianity subsequently underwent the Reformation and Enlightenment. Islam remained firmly rooted in the 7th century.

107 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:55am

re: #6 notutopia

Sick. Sick. Sick. This asshat religion disease Islam is SICK in the moral dept.
bigtime.

/I can't think of a worse word to put in...

108 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:13:58am

re: #90 buzzsawmonkey

So the entire Ummah's value was basically that of a medieval-era U-Stor-It facility?

Now let me dig in the sands of Iraq and Syria and see what else they're storing.

109 UberInfidel67  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:14:06am

re: #84 Lee Coller
It's funny you should say that. It is completely backward with these people. Little girls are available for the grown up life of marriage, but grown women cant go anywhere without a male escort. WTF?

110 Texas Heathen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:14:13am

Damn... I have a 10 year old daughter. No way she is walking down the aisle any time soon. I'm not gonna let her even date until she's ....er .... um .... 25

111 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:14:20am

re: #84 Lee Coller

Not surprising from a society that refuses to treat women of any age as adults human beings.


There, fixed that for you!

112 FrogMarch  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:14:22am

//////The other really neato deal is that Islamic males can rape the young girl - and then stone her to death. Because - you know - she was raped.

113 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:14:36am

re: #94 buzzsawmonkey

Nope. Roman.

I meant it as the Monty Python quote, not as fact.

114 Lee Coller  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:14:38am

re: #106 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Muslims at one time were a great cataloger of knowledge, which filtered to the West following the Crusades. The West and Christianity subsequently underwent the Reformation and Enlightenment. Islam remained firmly rooted in the 7th century.

Actually I think most of their advanced knowledge predated Islam.

115 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:15:02am

re: #84 Lee Coller

Not surprising from a society that refuses to treat women of any age as adults.

Islam refuses to admit that women are even human, adult would be a stretch.

116 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:15:04am

re: #113 spirochete

I meant it as the Monty Python quote, not as fact.

But aside from that, what have the Romans given us?

117 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:15:07am

re: #97 davinvalkri

Actually, most of the arabic peoples of early islam were nomadic.

Quite a bit of what would be claimed as credit was from the roman empire.

118 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:15:22am

re: #80 Sharmuta

We're talking about little girls married off to older men, likely with other wives already, and who knows how old these men are. Anywhere from 20s to 80s. Imagine being a ten year old girl on her wedding night with an 80 year old man.

Disgusting.

And it's wonderful to hear there's a rights group in saudi arabia that's working against this and they haven't been banned or bombed. Best of luck to them in stopping this nightmare.

The liberal Saudi press has been pushing a 18 year age for a few years, but like allowing women to drive or be in the same room with a man not her husband is going no where. BTW, "liberal Saudi press" is a oxymoron by our standards.

119 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:15:37am

re: #78 buzzsawmonkey

Algebra was not an Islamic invention; by most accounts, the Muslims merely claimed credit (and supplied an Arabic name for) something they came across in India.

Algebra - from "Al Ji'ibra" meaning "first of a long string of lies to tell the infidel"

120 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:15:56am

re: #116 Guanxi88

But aside from that, what have the Romans given us?

Roads?

121 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:16:03am

re: #52 spirochete

I posted a response to your question on the past thread. I don't know how to link it like you did mine, but it's near the end.

Yes, I got it. I've got that article up in another window now.

Thanks very much!

122 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:16:20am

Fox just said Israel's being bombed from Lebanon.

123 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:16:41am

re: #114 Lee Coller

Actually I think most of their advanced knowledge predated Islam.

As I said they cataloged it; I didn't say they invented/discovered any.

124 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:16:45am

re: #120 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Roads?

do you like gladiators?

125 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:16:50am

re: #120 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Roads?

Well, of course the roads. And sanitation.

But aside from that?

126 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:16:51am

re: #122 MandyManners

Fox just said Israel's being bombed from Lebanon.

racist

127 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:16:52am

re: #116 Guanxi88

But aside from that, what have the Romans given us?

Sophia Loren.

128 subsailor68  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:16:52am

"Where is that little girl I married?"

Feh.

129 davinvalkri  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:16:53am

re: #117 formercorpsman

Actually, most of the arabic peoples of early islam were nomadic.

Quite a bit of what would be claimed as credit was from the roman empire.

re: #119 karmic_inquisitor

Algebra - from "Al Ji'ibra" meaning "first of a long string of lies to tell the infidel"

Scratch...a lot off the list...hmmm...inspiration for the U.S.M.C. "...to the shores of Tripoli", then?
/Die, barbary pirates! HAHA!

130 maddogg  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:16:56am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

I understand there are over 100 patents in Saudi Arabia for buzzing prayer rugs and forehead lotion.

131 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:17:05am

Yet another example of Mr. Obama naivite. It's gonna be an interesting four years*

*Eight if the Republicans can't get their shit together.

132 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:17:08am

re: #91 realwest

Hi ya gak! You're not supposed to get it!
They want to marry females who have no sexual experiences so they can compare those to the performance (or lack thereof) of their "husband".

Hi real - I thought that girls/women who have premarital "encounters" are put to death. Oh, I get it now. No way to compare encounters this way either. Catch 22.

133 CommonCents  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:17:14am

re: #78 buzzsawmonkey

Algebra was not an Islamic invention; by most accounts, the Muslims merely claimed credit (and supplied an Arabic name for) something they came across in India.

I thought they picked it up from Greeks?

134 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:17:17am

re: #122 MandyManners

Right off the bat, that tells me, this cease fire was a chess move from Iran via Samah.

135 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:17:36am

re: #115 FurryOldGuyJeans
See my #111 - GMTA!

136 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:18:13am

re: #129 davinvalkri

I realize it now, went back and read the interaction.

I laughed when it dawned on me.

137 bulwrk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:18:21am

re: #116 Guanxi88

You mean besides the blue print for modern military organization?

138 ThinkRight  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:18:24am
Sheik Abdul-Aziz Al Sheikh was quoted as saying those who think such girls are too young to marry are doing them an injustice


F-ing pervs
Take their viagra away and all the little girls will be safe

139 SummerSong  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:18:31am

"A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable manageable."

Fixed it for him.

140 Sabnen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:18:37am

re: #98 notutopia

This is an article on Islamic Fertility. It is a fact that it is in a decline. What better way to increase the populace than to implore more possibility of conception success at an earlier age...
[Link: www.prb.org...]

Now, you're making me sick thinking about this and I can't find my anti-depressants . . . so it looks like an early cocktail hour today, starting . . . now!

141 JammieWearingFool  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:18:42am

re: #60 realwest

Huh, I thought for sure it was pre-school!
These people are barbarians. Period.

That's the junior prom.

142 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:18:59am

re: #122 MandyManners

Fox just said Israel's being bombed from Lebanon.

They say how many rockets, what type? Did they hit anything?

143 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:19:09am

re: #131 unreconstructed rebel

Yet another example of Mr. Obama naivite. It's gonna be an interesting four years*

*Eight if the Republicans can't get their shit together.

It took 8 years of Clinton to perform that miracle the last time.

144 JustABill  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:19:11am

Without defending the practice in any way, the Islamic culture has examples in its history of marriages of young girls where the marriage is not consummated until sometimes later. By our standards its a difference between "Are you insane young" and "thats still way too young".

It is possible that the cleric in question talked about a deferred consummation of this type of marriage and that part of the discussion did not make it into the quotes we see.

Still barbaric, but not quite as barbaric...

145 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:19:42am

Harmful to Minors: the Perils of Protecting Children From Sex
Google books.

Brought to you by the Academic Elites at University of Minnesota Press.

Forward by Jocelyn Elders.

146 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:19:47am

re: #140 Sabnen

Now, you're making me sick thinking about this and I can't find my anti-depressants . . . so it looks like an early cocktail hour today, starting . . . now!

dont be depressed...it will never happen here

147 Texas Heathen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:19:52am

re: #120 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Roads?

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads.

148 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:19:58am

Is this before or after female genital mutilation. This is a culture of sociopathy and pedophiles, and citizen/hostages.

I will quote Ann Coulter:

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"

The student who just left Hamas would agree with me. Obviously not practical, nor possible, Saudi Arabia for sure is beyond cultural redemption.

149 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:20:08am

Average age of puberty is decreasing every year in recent research studies.
Girls, average at 10 to 11 year age.
Boys, average at 12 year age.
[Link: www.patient.co.uk...]

150 griffon  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:20:08am

It's too bad this maroon never volunteered to be a splodeydope.
/

151 Racer X  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:20:20am

[deleted]

152 claspur  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:20:23am

...and MSN commences reporting this in 12,000,000,000,6...12,000,000,000,5...12,000,000,000,4... *yawwwn....

153 CommonCents  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:20:35am

Muqata also reports....

Senior Hamas member, Rafat Nasif: Hamas will not agree to harm their tunnel operation which connects Gaza to Egypt. We reject any attempt to stop our resistance, and any commitment [to a casefire] would harm it. As long as the occupation continues, our resistance will continue"

This whole ceasefire thing sounds like Israeli leftists trying to get their way through disinformation. I can't imagine even Olmert is stupid enough to quit now and say "okay, back to they way things were 3 weeks ago, one year from now". That's just foolishness.

154 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:20:59am
The rocket fire from Lebanon caused no injuries, but sent residents scurrying to bomb shelters.

The AP equates Jews with rats that scurry

155 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:21:04am

re: #133 CommonCents

I thought they picked it up from Greeks?

The number Zero is credited to the Indians and that is the fundamental innovation that most associate with higher math.

- snip -


The nr. zero was invented independently in India and
by the Maya. In India a decimal system was used, like
ours, but they used an empty space for zero up to 3rd
Century BC. This was confusing for an empty space was
also used to separate numbers, and so they invented
the dot for a zero. The first evidence for the use of
the symbol that we now know as zero stems from the 7th
century AD. The Maya invented the number zero for
their calendars in the 3rd century AD.
The number zero reached European civilisation through
the Arabs after 800 AD. The Greek and Roman did not
need the number zero for they did their calculations
on an abacus. The name 'zero' comes from the arabic
'sifr'.
(Data from the book "the calender" by D. E. Duncan).


- end snip -

156 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:21:32am

re: #149 notutopia

Average age of puberty is decreasing every year in recent research studies.
Girls, average at 10 to 11 year age.
Boys, average at 12 year age.
[Link: www.patient.co.uk...]

BGH?

157 Opinionated  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:21:37am

Some pedophiles we hate and lock up.

Some pedophiles we give State dinners in honor of, sell weapons to, and fuck Israel to appease.

Location. Location. Location.

Let that be a lesson to all you who want to molest young kids. The price of immunity is oil.

158 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:21:40am

re: #150 griffon

It's too bad this maroon never volunteered to be a splodeydope.
/

His type don't.
They get others to do it.
He's got a good thing going, why should he ruin it?

159 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:21:44am
... are wrong and are being unfair to her, ...

Let me see if I'm getting this .... not doing the goat is unfair to the goat?

160 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:21:44am

When will NOW start their protests against this?

161 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:21:46am

re: #141 JammieWearingFool Ah, you're right, my bad!

162 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:22:03am

Iran is starting to panic. I say - hold on tight - here we gooooooooo.........

163 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:22:14am

re: #148 DistantThunder


I will quote Ann Coulter:
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity"


Are you talking about our country?

no sarc

164 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:22:26am

re: #162 DistantThunder

Iran is starting to panic. I say - hold on tight - here we gooooooooo.........

?

165 CommonCents  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:22:32am

re: #157 Opinionated

Some pedophiles we hate and lock up.

Some pedophiles we give State dinners in honor of, sell weapons to, and fuck Israel to appease.

Location. Location. Location.

Let that be a lesson to all you who want to molest young kids. The price of immunity is oil.

And some are in congress on the finance committee, frankly.

166 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:22:42am

Mike Huckabee on Palin:


"Unlike John McCain's daughter Meghan, former GOP Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee doesn't have a policy against talking about Sarah Palin. In an interview with A.J. Jacobs from Esquire released Tuesday, Huckabee refused to join Palin's cabal against Katie Couric, saying the anchor was "extraordinarily gentle, even helpful" to the candidate. Read the excerpt on Palin below from the article.

I ask him if she was treated fairly by the media. "There were a lot of unfair things. Sexist things that would never have been asked of a male candidate." He pauses. "Now I must say I did not think that either the Charlie Gibson interview or the Katie Couric interviews were unfair. In fact, if anything, Katie Couric was extraordinarily gentle, even helpful. [Palin] just...I don't know what happened. I can't explain it. It was not a good interview. I'm being charitable."

He pauses. "I think it was over preparation. She'd been hammered by McCain's aides, 'Say this, don't say that.' "

167 subsailor68  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:23:02am

re: #162 DistantThunder

Iran is starting to panic. I say - hold on tight - here we gooooooooo.........

Didn't catch that story. Over loss of oil revenue? Discontent in the younger population? Both?

168 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:23:11am

Sound of a jet engine on the Gaza cam, then a blam.
No video of it though. Rats.

169 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:23:16am

re: #164 jwb7605

?

Rockets being fired from Lebannon - this is all a proxy war with Iran - and they have chosen to open up a new front. Why?

170 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:23:26am

re: #149 notutopia

Average age of puberty is decreasing every year in recent research studies.
Girls, average at 10 to 11 year age.
Boys, average at 12 year age.
[Link: www.patient.co.uk...]

Global Warming, no doubt.

Just like the spread of AIDS is caused by Global Warming

171 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:23:31am

re: #155 karmic_inquisitor

-The number Zero is credited to the Indians and that is the fundamental innovation that most associate with higher math. -

I thought that Obama created The Zero?

172 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:23:48am

re: #163 faraway

Are you talking about our country?

no sarc

Too late for that I'm afraid

173 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:24:19am

re: #160 FurryOldGuyJeans

When will NOW start their protests against this?


Ha, ha, ha! Thanks for the chuckle!

174 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:24:34am

re: #156 MandyManners

BGH?

Benign Gonadic Hypertrophy?

175 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:24:35am

re: #153 CommonCents

Cease fire? When did this happen? Please don't tell me Israel that agreed to stop the fight..

176 CommonCents  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:24:40am

re: #169 DistantThunder

Rockets being fired from Lebannon - this is all a proxy war with Iran - and they have chosen to open up a new front. Why?

Their "charity" shipment has been turned away from Gaza ports twice by the IDF Navy. Maybe they are just pissed the suicide bomb vests are getting used.

177 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:24:43am

SO, from reading Jpost just now: Hama has accepted an Egyptian cease-fire proposal, but since nobody's asked the IDF what they think about, we can still see stuff on the Rooster-cam?

Is that about right?

178 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:24:45am

re: #171 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I thought that Obama created The Zero?

Or The Japanese

179 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:24:57am

re: #148 DistantThunder


I will quote Ann Coulter:

So will I:

"I have never seen anything like the transforming effects of Christianity."

She said this during an interview with the perky one.

180 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:24:59am

re: #171 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I thought that Obama created The Zero?

the media created the Zero (same thing really)

181 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:25:02am

Sheik Abdul-Aziz Al Sheikh may have a point in his particular cultural context.

10-12 years is mature for a female...

...goat.

/Hey Aziz - the little woman has a nice beard on her.

182 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:25:03am

re: #169 DistantThunder

Rockets being fired from Lebannon - this is all a proxy war with Iran - and they have chosen to open up a new front. Why?

Why would Iran choose to open a new front?
easy question.
Israel gets hobbled beginning Jan 20, and Iran knows it.

183 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:25:12am

re: #166 avanti

Mike Huckabee on Palin:

"Unlike John McCain's daughter Meghan, former GOP Presidential candidate Mike Huckabee doesn't have a policy against talking about Sarah Palin. In an interview with A.J. Jacobs from Esquire released Tuesday, Huckabee refused to join Palin's cabal against Katie Couric, saying the anchor was "extraordinarily gentle, even helpful" to the candidate. Read the excerpt on Palin below from the article.

I ask him if she was treated fairly by the media. "There were a lot of unfair things. Sexist things that would never have been asked of a male candidate." He pauses. "Now I must say I did not think that either the Charlie Gibson interview or the Katie Couric interviews were unfair. In fact, if anything, Katie Couric was extraordinarily gentle, even helpful. [Palin] just...I don't know what happened. I can't explain it. It was not a good interview. I'm being charitable."

He pauses. "I think it was over preparation. She'd been hammered by McCain's aides, 'Say this, don't say that.' "

He is such an obnoxious suck up - Couric said she had an Anti-palin prep team.

184 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:25:14am

re: #174 notutopia

Benign Gonadic Hypertrophy?

Bovine Growth Hormone.

185 rusty_armor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:25:45am

I plumbed the deepest, darkest recess's of my soul where unnameable perversions lie, and could not find a place in there for a 10 year old bride. I guess this is one place among a zillion others that just doesn't march with Islam.

186 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:25:57am

re: #184 MandyManners

Bovine Growth Hormone.

You are truly wonderful Mandy!

187 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:25:57am

re: #179 midwestgak

I will quote Ann Coulter:

So will I:

"I have never seen anything like the transforming effects of Christianity."

She said this during an interview with the perky one.

Took the perk right out of her!

188 CommonCents  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:25:59am

re: #175 x-wing

Cease fire? When did this happen? Please don't tell me Israel that agreed to stop the fight..

Muqata blog post from 7:47 PM (Israel time)

7:47 PM Good G-d. Channel 10 is reporting about the upcoming "ceasefire agreement". Channel 10 claims that Israel will open border crossings to Gaza. Hamas will not return Gilad Shalit, Hamas will only cease shooting rockets at Israel for a year.

For this we went to war?

189 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:02am

re: #171 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I thought that Obama created The Zero?

uh ... with respect, and compassion ... you need to get better at grammar.
He was created (as) The Zero.

(-:

190 BigMoo  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:02am

We are truly living in 'Historic Times'...between global economic upheaval, the bullying attempts of multiple despots (Chavez, Putin, Lil' Kim, Achmed of Iran etc), Multiple Jihads and a looming ice age (lol), one can only hope that Obama will deliver us.
In Obama we trust....

191 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:10am

re: #180 albusteve

the media created the Zero (same thing really)

Spontaneous Generation is operative now.

192 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:15am

Lights are back on in Gaza.

193 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:18am
‘A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable and those who think she’s too young are wrong and are being unfair to her,’ he said during a Monday lecture, according to the pan-Arab Al-Hayat newspaper.


This is nothing new. The late Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran himself married a ten-year-old girl when he was twenty-eight. Khomeini called marriage to a prepubescent girl “a divine blessing,” and advised the faithful: “Do your best to ensure that your daughters do not see their first blood in your house.”

A Moroccan Islamic theologian, Mohamed Ben Sheikh Abderrahman Al, has caused a great stir by stating "A nine-year-old girl has the same sexual capacities as a woman of 20 and over" He issued a fatwa (Islamic edict) where he "legalizes" the union between a child and an adult male. "We found that girls of that age give better benefits than adult women," he says. "Consequently they are so trained to marry as young of 20 years."

In such a sexually repressed culture as Islamic cultures are, why should we not be surprised to find 10 year old girls being married off thus preventing pre-marital sex issues and ensuring the men get their virgin bride.

Maybe it prevents comparison issues with the sexually insecure men?

194 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:25am

re: #149 notutopia

Average age of puberty is decreasing every year in recent research studies.
Girls, average at 10 to 11 year age.
Boys, average at 12 year age.
[Link: www.patient.co.uk...]

More evidence supporting my thesis. Who did this "study"? Academic elites.

195 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:28am

re: #176 CommonCents

Their "charity" shipment has been turned away from Gaza ports twice by the IDF Navy. Maybe they are just pissed the suicide bomb vests are getting used.

Or they know that Olmert is on his way out and that BeBe, their worst nightmare is on his way in. They may be figuring to make their big move against Israel now rather than later.

196 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:28am

re: #148 DistantThunder

Is this before or after female genital mutilation. This is a culture of sociopathy and pedophiles, and citizen/hostages.

I will quote Ann Coulter:


The student who just left Hamas would agree with me. Obviously not practical, nor possible, Saudi Arabia for sure is beyond cultural redemption.

Iraq:

1. check.
2. check.
3. working on it.

197 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:28am

re: #131 unreconstructed rebel

Yet another example of Mr. Obama naivite. It's gonna be an interesting four years*

*Eight if the Republicans can't get their shit together.


But it was just an honest mistake. Did you hear this 'honest mistake' quote from almost every msm commenter? I love when Rush plays those clips of the msm and the democrat talking points.

198 apachegunner  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:33am

re: #144 JustABill

Without defending the practice in any way, the Islamic culture has examples in its history of marriages of young girls where the marriage is not consummated until sometimes later. By our standards its a difference between "Are you insane young" and "thats still way too young".

It is possible that the cleric in question talked about a deferred consummation of this type of marriage and that part of the discussion did not make it into the quotes we see.

Still barbaric, but not quite as barbaric...

Good Bill, now I dislke them less

199 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:35am

re: #169 DistantThunder
They've chose to open a new front to try to take the pressure off Hamas/Gaza, where they are losing badly.
Pure and simple.

200 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:26:45am

re: #175 x-wing

Cease fire? When did this happen? Please don't tell me Israel that agreed to stop the fight..

They did not - and in view of the demands by Hams I doubt it will.
Any politician tehre thinking of election/re-election will know that to accept tehse Hamas-demands will mean not just the death of their ambitions but of all of Israel.

Not going to happen.

201 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:27:00am

re: #169 DistantThunder

Rockets being fired from Lebannon - this is all a proxy war with Iran - and they have chosen to open up a new front. Why?

Because the other front is out of ammo, out of options, and running out of personnel.

And if Hezbollah opens a Lebanon front, the non Hezbollah Lebanese may put an end to their dark reign in the south - Lebanese don't want another "victorious" engagement with Israel to lay waste to what is left of the country.

And just think, all this is happening while Iran sees fewer oil revenues and deals with hyper inflation.

Suppose it is time to start stoning more rape victims.

202 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:27:10am

re: #192 MandyManners

Lights are back on in Gaza.

The sun came up, eh?

203 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:27:19am

re: #171 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I thought that Obama created The Zero?

My bad.

204 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:27:26am

re: #194 Taqiyyotomist

More evidence supporting my thesis. Who did this "study"? Academic elites.

Google the topic. You will find many more just like it.

205 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:27:36am

re: #187 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Took the perk right out of her!

Did you see that interview with an athiest NGO worker in Africa who said the continent absolutely needed Christianity to improve and that all the non-Christian NGO's did not have the same effect - wells or no wells.

206 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:27:36am

re: #171 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I thought that Obama created The Zero?

NO - he IS the Zero.

207 maddogg  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:27:42am

re: #148 DistantThunder

Is this before or after female genital mutilation. This is a culture of sociopathy and pedophiles, and citizen/hostages.

I will quote Ann Coulter:


The student who just left Hamas would agree with me. Obviously not practical, nor possible, Saudi Arabia for sure is beyond cultural redemption.

Actually no, not if your willing to meet or exceed Islamic brutality. The Spaniards converted the whole of South and Central America in a single lifetime. With fire, swords, torture, and Priests.

208 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:27:49am

re: #179 midwestgak

I will quote Ann Coulter:

So will I:

"I have never seen anything like the transforming effects of Christianity."

She said this during an interview with the perky one.

Ann is right. You cannot replace Islam with nothing.

209 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:28:03am

re: #162 DistantThunder


Speaking of Iran. At least they raised the age for marriage to 13 or 14 a few years back. And look who runs' that place.

210 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:28:13am

So statutory rape is legal in Saudi Arabia? Well that should attach sex tourism to the kingdom! :-(

211 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:28:15am

re: #144 JustABill

Without defending the practice in any way, the Islamic culture has examples in its history of marriages of young girls where the marriage is not consummated until sometimes later. By our standards its a difference between "Are you insane young" and "thats still way too young".

It is possible that the cleric in question talked about a deferred consummation of this type of marriage and that part of the discussion did not make it into the quotes we see.

Still barbaric, but not quite as barbaric...

except it s consummated at a young age.

A Moroccan Islamic theologian, Mohamed Ben Sheikh Abderrahman Al, has caused a great stir by stating "A nine-year-old girl has the same sexual capacities as a woman of 20 and over" He issued a fatwa (Islamic edict) where he "legalizes" the union between a child and an adult male. "We found that girls of that age give better benefits than adult women," he says. "Consequently they are so trained to marry as young of 20 years."

212 CommonCents  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:28:21am

re: #176 CommonCents

Their "charity" shipment has been turned away from Gaza ports twice by the IDF Navy. Maybe they are just pissed the suicide bomb vests are AREN'T getting used.

Nads. I knew what I was thinking when I typed it.

213 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:28:21am

re: #194 Taqiyyotomist

More evidence supporting my thesis. Who did this "study"? Academic elites.

My take is that it is scientific.

214 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:28:25am

re: #182 jwb7605

Why would Iran choose to open a new front?
easy question.
Israel gets hobbled beginning Jan 20, and Iran knows it.

myself I would not bank on that...Israel is gonna clobber Iran sooner or later regardless of what BO says....they have to and starts in Lebanon so be it

215 subsailor68  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:28:35am

re: #175 x-wing

Cease fire? When did this happen? Please don't tell me Israel that agreed to stop the fight..

I really hope not....like the lines from The Untouchables:

Ness:
Never stop fighting till the fight is done.

Capone:
What did you say?.

Ness:
l said, never stop fighting till the fight is done.

Here endeth the lesson.

216 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:29:04am

I wonder what the age minimum for gay marriage will be? 13? 15?

217 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:29:19am

re: #193 Outrider

I'll bet their women are sexually retarded at 20 - and they live in a completely repressive society there for the sexuals skills of a 10 year old might not differ greatly than those of a 20 year old. FActor in FGM and it's no surprise.

218 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:29:32am

re: #206 realwest

NO - he IS the Zero.

He does seem to be a lightweight, I'll give him that.

219 BigMoo  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:30:10am

re: #214 albusteve

I'd suspect Israel is gonna continue the spanking right up until BHO gets crowned, knowing that handcuffs are coming...Iran ? I'm not so sure even THEIR cajones are that large at this point...

220 Gella  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:30:16am

re: #216 faraway
its not possible with in Islam, gays are banned from their world completely, it will ruin Islam

221 DistantThunder  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:30:48am

re: #207 maddogg

Actually no, not if your willing to meet or exceed Islamic brutality. The Spaniards converted the whole of South and Central America in a single lifetime. With fire, swords, torture, and Priests.

It has worked in Germany, Japan and now Iraq. What we teach with modern democracy is an offshoot of what our founding fathers understood about Christianity.

222 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:30:55am

re: #220 Gella

its not possible with in Islam, gays are banned from their world completely, it will ruin Islam

What? Do leftists know this?

/

223 bulwrk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:30:57am

re: #218 jwb7605

Wasn't there a song popular in the 80's called saved by zero?

224 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:31:21am

re: #214 albusteve

myself I would not bank on that...Israel is gonna clobber Iran sooner or later regardless of what BO says....they have to and starts in Lebanon so be it

I hope your right (about not being hobbled). Time will tell about the rest, and I wouldn't bank on anything. Either way.

225 ThinkRight  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:31:22am

re: #131 unreconstructed rebel

Yet another example of Mr. Obama naivite. It's gonna be an interesting four years*

*Eight if the Republicans can't get their shit together.

re: #216 faraway

I wonder what the age minimum for gay marriage will be? 13? 15?


7 maybe ?

226 Spider Mensch  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:31:53am

re: #201 karmic_inquisitor

Because the other front is out of ammo, out of options, and running out of personnel.

And if Hezbollah opens a Lebanon front, the non Hezbollah Lebanese may put an end to their dark reign in the south - Lebanese don't want another "victorious" engagement with Israel to lay waste to what is left of the country.

And just think, all this is happening while Iran sees fewer oil revenues and deals with hyper inflation.

Suppose it is time to start stoning more rape victims.

and hanging some drug addicts and homosexuals from construction cranes in the village square always seems to perk up the iranian people's spirit...

/gag

227 Gella  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:32:06am

re: #222 faraway
are u talking about Muslim Leftists? do they exist?

228 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:32:10am

re: #188 CommonCents

calm down - its from a TV station, you all know whatt alking heads are like.

Have a look at this:

Hamas representative Salah Bardawil said at a press conference in Cairo Wednesday that the group still had reservations regarding the Egyptian ceasefire initiative in Gaza.

And look at this:
IDF officers say army gaining achievements against Hamas

Olmert wants to go ahead with phase three of this operation - IDF Special Forces are in Gaza - Hamas is not accepting a cease fire without ahving lots of conditions - its not going happen the hamasthug way!

229 itellu3times  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:32:46am

isn't "molestation" rather understating things?

230 Dianna  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:32:56am

re: #122 MandyManners

Fox just said Israel's being bombed from Lebanon.

Welcome to the wider war.

231 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:33:09am

Conception is a World Health Issue. Not just for the evolution of mankind either in Genetic diversity.
Not to mention subsets, concerns for the government,
religions, ......
[Link: www.yhpho.org.uk...]

232 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:33:15am

re: #227 Gella

are u talking about Muslim Leftists? do they exist?

Yes. They're the ones who blame Global Warming on the Joos.

233 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:33:16am

re: #223 bulwrk

Wasn't there a song popular in the 80's called saved by zero?

I searched YouTube and found this. I don't remember it, though.

Youtube Video
234 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:33:25am

re: #229 itellu3times

isn't "molestation" rather understating things?

To describe what these beasts have approved would get you banned on this blog, and the site blocked in most places.

235 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:33:35am

Gotta go. My employer is expecting work for wages.

236 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:33:38am

re: #209 x-wing

Speaking of Iran. At least they raised the age for marriage to 13 or 14 a few years back. And look who runs' that place.

When the Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran took power from the Shah, one of his first edicts was to lower the age of consent to ten. The present government thought it prudent to raise it to 13, but marriages of 10 are still common.

The age of consent is difficult to place in Saudi Arabia. But there are cases such as:

According to a news article by Yahoo news a Saudi court has rejected a plea to divorce an eight-year-old girl married off by her father to a man who is 58, saying the case should wait until the girl reaches puberty, a lawyer involved told AFP.
237 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:33:39am

Oh boy. We may get the opportunity to occupy Mexico.

Yipeee.

Talk about dealing with grievance theater - if we end up going down there to stabilize their government we will be making reparations payments and whatnot for centuries. We already get to deal with the "yanqui" piñata as it is.

238 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:33:54am

re: #219 BigMoo

I'd suspect Israel is gonna continue the spanking right up until BHO gets crowned, knowing that handcuffs are coming...Iran ? I'm not so sure even THEIR cajones are that large at this point...

I seriously doubt it...the IDF holds all the cards right now...their northern border is well defended and they are anything but spent in Gaza..they truly have Iran where they want them...but perhaps the Mullahs dont grok this....imo

239 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:34:22am

re: #237 karmic_inquisitor

Oh boy. We may get the opportunity to occupy Mexico.

Yipeee.

Talk about dealing with grievance theater - if we end up going down there to stabilize their government we will be making reparations payments and whatnot for centuries. We already get to deal with the "yanqui" piñata as it is.

Well, I suppose occupying them would be just returning the favor.

240 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:34:23am

re: #125 Guanxi88

Well, of course the roads. And sanitation.

But aside from that?

Legal system?

Wine?

And for those of you who are missing the joke;

Youtube Video
241 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:34:28am

re: #188 CommonCents

? Good Lord, I'm sure Hamas will hold up their end. This is suicide with only six days until they probably wont be able to do anything.

242 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:34:31am

re: #235 unreconstructed rebel

Gotta go. My employer is expecting work for wages.

Did you inform him that kind of thinking is outdated now that The One is President?

243 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:34:45am

re: #235 unreconstructed rebel

Gotta go. My employer is expecting work for wages.

The noive of dem!
Hope to see you later on!

244 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:34:49am

re: #223 bulwrk

Wasn't there a song popular in the 80's called saved by zero?

The Fixx.

Youtube Video
245 bulwrk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:35:01am

re: #233 jwb7605

That's the one.

246 JustABill  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:35:22am

re: #211 Outrider

except it s consummated at a young age.

A Moroccan Islamic theologian, Mohamed Ben Sheikh Abderrahman Al, has caused a great stir by stating "A nine-year-old girl has the same sexual capacities as a woman of 20 and over" He issued a fatwa (Islamic edict) where he "legalizes" the union between a child and an adult male. "We found that girls of that age give better benefits than adult women," he says. "Consequently they are so trained to marry as young of 20 years."

Yep, should have done more than skimmed the linked article...

247 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:35:36am

re: #230 Dianna

Welcome to the wider war.

Poor Mads Gilbert is gonna' spread himself too thin!

248 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:35:41am

re: #226 Spider Mensch

and hanging some drug addicts and homosexuals from construction cranes in the village square always seems to perk up the iranian people's spirit...

/gag

Just think if they hanged some homosexuals on inauguration day - Americans could blame Rick Warren in particular and Christians in general!

249 zombie  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:35:48am
‘A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable and those who think she’s too young are wrong and are being unfair to her,’ he said during a Monday lecture, according to the pan-Arab Al-Hayat newspaper.

One thing that's always bothered me:

The Islamic calendar is 354 days long. Which means it is 11.25 days out of whack from a true sidereal year. I once read that, in pre-modern times, people's ages in Arab countries were (naturally) calculated using the Islamic calendar. However, their stated age is then actually higher than it really is biologically.

As the classic example, Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6, but didn't have sex with her until she was 9. But she wasn't necessarily 9 biologically -- she had aged 9 Islamic years. Which means that her ninth birthday happened when she was (11.25 x 9 = 101.25 days; 9 years - 101.25 days =) 8 years 8 months and 19 days old. Which basically means there was about a 30% chance that Aisha was biologically 8 years old when Mohammed violated her.

So, in this new circumstance -- are girls' ages still calculated using the Islamic calendar? It seem that this must be the case, because it would be confusing and absurd to calculate one's birthday according to a calendar that is not used in your country. Thus, a girl that he says can be married at 10 or 12 could actually be 9 or 11 in true years.

250 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:35:56am

re: #239 Guanxi88

Well, I suppose occupying them would be just returning the favor.

Far too many Mexicans already think that way about us, re. 1848.

251 Opinionated  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:36:21am

re: #122 MandyManners

Fox just said Israel's being bombed from Lebanon.

If Israel does not respond quickly, it will fall into the same pattern of rockets form Lebanon at the barbarians' will, with the World not giving a damn.

Until years months or years from now when Israel is forced finally to act.

252 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:36:24am

re: #247 MandyManners

Poor Mads Gilbert is gonna' spread himself too thin!

Edited, for clarity and accuracy.
Friggin' Norse Nancy-Boy

253 BigMoo  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:36:31am

re: #238 albusteve

I don't have the thread handy, but it sounds like the Mullahs have their own internal issues, as the price of oil has just about wiped out their 'rainy day fund' to keep the populace at bay-one can only hope...but as BHO is about to find out, hope is NOT a strategy...

254 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:36:49am

re: #183 DistantThunder

Obama is sucking up to the right and dissing the left. He's meeting with George Wil, Bill Kristal and the like, but not the New York Times.

255 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:37:06am

re: #250 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Far too many Mexicans already think that way about us, re. 1848.

SO, would be even, then. Is this one of those "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts will?"

256 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:37:14am

re: #247 MandyManners

Poor Mads Gilbert is gonna' spread himself too thin!

Where's the nearest Israeli bulldozer?

257 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:37:35am

re: #249 zombie

Go spread your blasphemy elsewhere!

/

258 Sabnen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:37:54am

re: #149 notutopia

In the opening statement I think they get it right when they cite the study that identifies "better nutrition" as the cause for earlier onset of puberty.

I'd heard, years ago, that hitting 100 pounds was a puberty trigger in girls, also a diet high in fat brought it on.

259 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:38:04am

re: #253 BigMoo

I don't have the thread handy, but it sounds like the Mullahs have their own internal issues, as the price of oil has just about wiped out their 'rainy day fund' to keep the populace at bay-one can only hope...but as BHO is about to find out, hope is NOT a strategy...

How do really big wars usually start?

260 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:38:05am

re: #249 zombie

Interesting thought, Zomb. I don't know the answer, but I do know in health care, if you see someone's birthday as 1/1/anything, it's usually a moslem. Something about birthdays being anti Allah.

261 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:38:13am

Nothing like listening to The Fixx and GazaCam at the same time.

262 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:38:17am

re: #254 avanti

Obama is sucking up to the right and dissing the left. He's meeting with George Wil, Bill Kristal and the like, but not the New York Times.

Clever tactic.

263 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:38:26am

re: #249 zombie

I learn something new here at LGF every day. I should be sending Charles my student loan payments, instead of my Alma Mater.

264 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:38:30am

re: #254 avanti

Obama is sucking up to the right and dissing the left. He's meeting with George Wil, Bill Kristal and the like, but not the New York Times.

Dissing the left?

Close Gitmo. Commissions for Bush and Cheney war crimes.

That's pretty centrist.

265 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:38:38am

And while I'm at it, here is another interesting piece of information:
The International Criminal Court prosecutor in The Hague said on Wednesday it lacks jurisdiction to investigate war crimes allegedly committed in the Gaza Strip.

Yep, some hamasthug-lovers tried to get Israel indicted - no deal.

266 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:38:42am

re: #256 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Where's the nearest Israeli bulldozer?

That'll spread him thin.

267 BigMoo  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:38:56am

re: #254 avanti
I'd call it the 'Illinois Two-Step'...grab video with the right to trianglulate on the center-then consulte with George Soros off camera...

268 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:39:02am

re: #265 yma o hyd

And while I'm at it, here is another interesting piece of information:
The International Criminal Court prosecutor in The Hague said on Wednesday it lacks jurisdiction to investigate war crimes allegedly committed in the Gaza Strip.

Yep, some hamasthug-lovers tried to get Israel indicted - no deal.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

269 vapig  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:39:11am

From the article:

"On Sunday, the government-run Human Rights Commission condemned marriages of minor girls, saying such marriages are an 'inhumane violation' and rob children of their rights.
The commission's statement followed a ruling by a court in Oneiza in central Saudi Arabia last month that dismissed a divorce petition by the mother of an eight-year-old girl whose father married her off to a man in his 50s.
Newspaper reports said the court argued that the mother did not have the right to file such a case on behalf of her daughter and said that the petition should be filed by the girl when she reaches puberty."

So, the mother of a minor doesn't have the right to file on behalf of her daughter, but the child herself must wait until puberty? Who determines when that is? And why can she only speak for herself at the time of puberty, yet she is old enough for marriage beforehand?

This is insane and sick! Just disgusting!

270 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:39:13am

So let me see if I get this latest cease fire straight;

Hamas promises to:
Keep Gilad Shalit
Keep building tunnels
Keep firing rockets
Keep trying to destroy Israel

and in return, Israel gets to stop killing Hamas.

Thats quite a deal they got going there.

271 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:39:30am

re: #264 faraway

Dissing the left?

Close Gitmo. Commissions for Bush and Cheney war crimes.

That's pretty centrist.

Gitmo, center-left.
War crimes-left.

272 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:39:32am

re: #253 BigMoo

I don't have the thread handy, but it sounds like the Mullahs have their own internal issues, as the price of oil has just about wiped out their 'rainy day fund' to keep the populace at bay-one can only hope...but as BHO is about to find out, hope is NOT a strategy...

The price of oil has just about wiped out our economy.

273 BigMoo  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:39:43am

re: #259 jwb7605

Uh, to distract your own people ?

274 Opinionated  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:39:44am

re: #265 yma o hyd

And while I'm at it, here is another interesting piece of information:
The International Criminal Court prosecutor in The Hague said on Wednesday it lacks jurisdiction to investigate war crimes allegedly committed in the Gaza Strip.

Yep, some hamasthug-lovers tried to get Israel indicted - no deal.

Related:

Bolivia breaks ties with Israel

Bolivian President Evo Morales said Bolivia has broken relations with Israel over its invasion of the Gaza Strip and will seek to charge top Israeli officials with genocide in the International Criminal Court.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

275 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:39:49am

re: #261 MandyManners

Nothing like listening to The Fixx and GazaCam at the same time.

Lots of things in Gaza land are going to need the fix when this is all done.

276 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:39:53am

In case you are not aware, little girls as young as 10 or younger are engaging in sexual acts in the US.
Ever heard of 'rainbow parties'?
bill clinton and the liberals have told girls oral sex is not sex.

277 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:40:20am

re: #269 vapig
As I keep saying, they are barbarians. Period.

278 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:40:26am

Machine cannon (helicopter?) in the distance on the webcam

279 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:40:36am

re: #276 newsjunkie_ky

In case you are not aware, little girls as young as 10 or younger are engaging in sexual acts in the US.
Ever heard of 'rainbow parties'?
bill clinton and the liberals have told girls oral sex is not sex.

I was hoping this wouldn't come up. I have a ten year old daughter.

280 Opinionated  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:40:48am

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So let me see if I get this latest cease fire straight;

Hamas promises to:
Keep Gilad Shalit
Keep building tunnels
Keep firing rockets
Keep trying to destroy Israel

and in return, Israel gets to stop killing Hamas.

I'm Jimmy Carter and I approved this message.

281 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:41:00am

re: #211 Outrider

These people should be thrown in jail. Look how many young girls in Africa are damn near damaged for life giving birth at a young age, before there hips are fully developed.

You'd think that would be reason enough for the old pervs. to let the little girls alone.

282 Dianna  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:41:03am

re: #233 jwb7605

I searched YouTube and found this. I don't remember it, though.

[Video]

The Fixx!

283 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:41:37am

Charles,
Mass-Upding Tool needed.
Most every comment above requires an upding.
It seems subject matter this close to heart seems to spur the creative juices amongst Lizards.

284 Kenneth  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:42:09am

re: #251 Opinionated

When a couple rockets were fired into Israel from Lebanon last week, Hezbollah was very quick to declare they were not responsible. It seems, tough talk aside, Nasrallah is not so stupid to risk another ass-whooping.

Israel will wait to be sure who did it. It could be another fringe group (such as al Qaeda) trying to start a wider war.

285 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:42:13am

re: #253 BigMoo

I don't have the thread handy, but it sounds like the Mullahs have their own internal issues, as the price of oil has just about wiped out their 'rainy day fund' to keep the populace at bay-one can only hope...but as BHO is about to find out, hope is NOT a strategy...

at some point in time Israel will have to trust itself alone...I hope that time is now...they really have alot going for them right now...all the air strikes in Gaza could be only a few fighters...munitions are spent wisely....they already ponder taking down Irans nuke program...and any provocation by Iran right could mean suicide...it would take very little effort to kill her refinery and severely damage here shipping facilities...mine her litorial waters etc...the possibilities are endless and in retalition Iran has little but some 2nd rate missles....

286 davinvalkri  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:42:14am

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So let me see if I get this latest cease fire straight;

Hamas promises to:
Keep Gilad Shalit
Keep building tunnels
Keep firing rockets
Keep trying to destroy Israel

and in return, Israel gets to stop killing Hamas.

Thats quite a deal they got going there.

Why do I suddenly have the urge to make some kind of space laser weapon that can wipe these Hamassholes out with the wrath of God?

287 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:42:27am

re: #244 MandyManners

The Fixx.


[Video]

Which has been picked up more than once by automakers for zero percent financing commercials.

288 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:42:35am

re: #213 MandyManners

My take is that it is scientific.

I think its a bit of both. Science and its use to change public opinion. Could it be that the age of puberty is going down in direct inverse proportion to the amount of audio and visual sexuality kids are exposed to? MTV, Hollywood, the music industry have been quite actively pushing sex to a younger and younger crowd. Little girls were singing Barbie Girl (look at the lyrics) and It's Getting Hot in Here, So Take Off All Your Clothes (ditto). That was almost 10 years ago, IIRC. What are they pushing today? I have no idea. I haven't listened to any new pop music in a long time. Same with films...movies geared towards kids have sexual innuendo and worse. American Pie 1,2,3,4 rented by the older kids, watched by the younger kids.

It is what they want. Its not just the profit motive (although, for Islam, it is the prophet motive.)

The press-hyped stories following these research studies, which may indeed have been done for altruistic purpose, seem to have a tone to them which is a "push". I don't know how to explain, sometimes, trends that I see in the "science press", but the phrase "cultural brainwashing" comes to mind.

289 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:42:36am

re: #262 Ward Cleaver

Clever tactic.

Smoke screen.

What Bill Kristal says, "Well, Mr. President, we think you should cut taxes."

What the new President hears, "blah, Mr. President, blah blah blah raise taxes.

290 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:42:45am

re: #258 Sabnen

In the opening statement I think they get it right when they cite the study that identifies "better nutrition" as the cause for earlier onset of puberty.

I'd heard, years ago, that hitting 100 pounds was a puberty trigger in girls, also a diet high in fat brought it on.


Then, don't you find it very interesting that nearly all the states school systems have adopted Weight and portion control practices. Nutrition advisories sent home to parents.
We have seen the newest trends in near anorexic women "models" here in the USA. At least that's what Madison Ave. would like you to believe.

291 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:42:50am

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So let me see if I get this latest cease fire straight;

Hamas promises to:
Keep Gilad Shalit
Keep building tunnels
Keep firing rockets
Keep trying to destroy Israel

and in return, Israel gets to stop killing Hamas.

Thats quite a deal they got going there.


yea..But we get the Rooster

292 Cognito  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:08am

re: #276 newsjunkie_ky

In case you are not aware, little girls as young as 10 or younger are engaging in sexual acts in the US.
Ever heard of 'rainbow parties'?
bill clinton and the liberals have told girls oral sex is not sex.

Don't fall for urban legends. Makes your argument stronger.

293 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:08am

re: #273 BigMoo

Uh, to distract your own people ?

WINNING ANSWER!
.. and it's one, two, three, what are we fighting for?
don't ask me, I don't give a damn...

294 subsailor68  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:08am

OT

Another reason I hate the MSM, this headline:

Retail sales plummet 2.7 percent in December

When you actually read the article, the figures were adjusted to 2.7 from an earlier estimate of 1.2. Is it a drop? Yes. Is it bad? Yes. Is a drop of 2.7 from an estimate of 1.2 a "plummet"? No, it's hyperbole.

Then they go on to say that weakness in consumer spending is a prime contributing factor. Really? What'd you expect after using terms like "plummet"?

How about "Retail sales estimates for December revised", then let the readers decide?

295 zombie  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:10am

re: #276 newsjunkie_ky

In case you are not aware, little girls as young as 10 or younger are engaging in sexual acts in the US.
Ever heard of 'rainbow parties'?
bill clinton and the liberals have told girls oral sex is not sex.

Yes, young girls may be raped or molested in the US by deranged perverts -- but it is illegal!

Bad things happen everywhere. The difference between a healthy society and an evil society is that the healthy society condemns and penalizes the bad acts; the evil society facilitates and legalizes them.

296 BigMoo  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:15am

re: #272 faraway

Think about the past 8 years in this country....Tech bubble, 9/11, recession, Afghanistan, Iraq, Katrina, incredible oil price increases...and it takes a bunch of community organizers and Congress to gut this nation like a fish with toxic mortgages....
Oil slowed us down, CRA/Freddie/Fannie/Congress gutted us...

297 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:22am

re: #274 Opinionated
OMG - your link says Venezuela is close to breaking ties with Israel, too! What will Israel do without Bolivia and Venezuela on their side?
/very heavy.

298 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:26am

re: #276 newsjunkie_ky

In case you are not aware, little girls as young as 10 or younger are engaging in sexual acts in the US.
Ever heard of 'rainbow parties'?
bill clinton and the liberals have told girls oral sex is not sex.

Big difference - in the US if someone has sexual relations with a minor they are arrested and placed in the care of hostile criminals. Under Sharia law hostile criminals have sexual relations with minors whom they arrest and stone if they dare try to care for themselves.

299 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:29am

re: #274 Opinionated

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Good luck with, Hugo's Mini-Me.

300 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:35am

re: #254 avanti

Hardly. As Limbaugh noted, he's trying to co-opt the right-wing pundits inside the beltway, and also identify them as the "legitimate" spokesmen for the right, as opposed to Limbaugh and Coulter. On the side, he's promised them access to his administration and probably invitations to the White House and the DC social scene.

In short, he's trying to charm them and buy them off. We'll see if it works.

301 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:39am

re: #160 FurryOldGuyJeans

When will NOW start their protests against this?

We haven't heard from NOW for a long time. What have they denounced recently other than the nomination of Sarah Palin?

302 CommonCents  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:43:58am

re: #265 yma o hyd

And while I'm at it, here is another interesting piece of information:
The International Criminal Court prosecutor in The Hague said on Wednesday it lacks jurisdiction to investigate war crimes allegedly committed in the Gaza Strip.

Yep, some hamasthug-lovers tried to get Israel indicted - no deal.

So are they confessing that they have no authority to prosecute Hamas thugs either? What good are they if they only prosecute the good guys?

303 Kenneth  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:04am

re: #271 spirochete

Gitmo, center-left.
War crimes-left.

Obama is not going to close Gitmo. He's going to give a nice speech & rename it. Problem solved.

304 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:11am

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So let me see if I get this latest cease fire straight;

Hamas promises to:
Keep Gilad Shalit
Keep building tunnels
Keep firing rockets
Keep trying to destroy Israel

and in return, Israel gets to stop killing Hamas.

Thats quite a deal they got going there.

Yeah, nice wish-list from the hamassholes.

Pity that Father Christmas only comes once a year ... and he's just been ...

305 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:16am

re: #289 midwestgak

Smoke screen.

What Bill Kristal says, "Well, Mr. President, we think you should cut taxes."

What the new President hears, "blah, Mr. President, blah blah blah raise taxes.

Like the Far Side cartoon, "what dogs hear".

306 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:17am

Look at this:

[Link: www.operationrooster.com...]

307 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:22am

re: #274 Opinionated

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Bolivia is to Venezulea as the Vichy were to the Nazis, lapdog bitches

308 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:23am

re: #286 davinvalkri

Why do I suddenly have the urge to make some kind of space laser weapon that can wipe these Hamassholes out with the wrath of God?

"All I want are sharks with frikkin' laser beams attached to their heads!"
/Dr. Evil

309 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:23am

Flares and gunfire right over yonder.

310 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:29am

re: #279 spirochete

I was hoping this wouldn't come up. I have a ten year old daughter.


Need to have the talk. It is so sad that the clintons, the msm, hollyweird, and trash mags have aged our children.

Guess it is just the evolution of the human species./

311 BigMoo  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:41am

re: #293 jwb7605

LMAO- the more things change...the more they stay the same, eh ?

312 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:51am

Some nice flares and such on Gaza-cam. Pretty orangey-red tracers, too.

313 jorline  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:56am

ROP...Religion Of Pedophiles.

314 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:44:57am

re: #303 Kenneth

Obama is not going to close Gitmo. He's going to give a nice speech & rename it. Problem solved.

"The George W. Bush Retreat Center".

315 CommonCents  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:45:30am

re: #288 Taqiyyotomist

I think its a bit of both. Science and its use to change public opinion. Could it be that the age of puberty is going down in direct inverse proportion to the amount of audio and visual sexuality kids are exposed to? MTV, Hollywood, the music industry have been quite actively pushing sex to a younger and younger crowd. Little girls were singing Barbie Girl (look at the lyrics) and It's Getting Hot in Here, So Take Off All Your Clothes (ditto). That was almost 10 years ago, IIRC. What are they pushing today? I have no idea. I haven't listened to any new pop music in a long time. Same with films...movies geared towards kids have sexual innuendo and worse. American Pie 1,2,3,4 rented by the older kids, watched by the younger kids.

It is what they want. Its not just the profit motive (although, for Islam, it is the prophet motive.)

The press-hyped stories following these research studies, which may indeed have been done for altruistic purpose, seem to have a tone to them which is a "push". I don't know how to explain, sometimes, trends that I see in the "science press", but the phrase "cultural brainwashing" comes to mind.

My wife says that Victoria Secret has a section for young girls now. My 8 yr old niece wanted a VS gift certificate for Xmas. WTF?!?!?

316 subsailor68  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:45:38am

re: #314 Ward Cleaver

"The George W. Bush Retreat Center".

I kinda like "Club Dead"

317 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:45:39am

re: #288 Taqiyyotomist

That article was not from the popular press but from a scientific journal.

318 davinvalkri  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:45:49am

re: #308 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

"All I want are sharks with frikkin' laser beams attached to their heads!"
/Dr. Evil

Not sharks...dogs and foxes equipped with the wrath of God!
And while we're at it, maybe pigs with class IV lasers on their heads.

319 BigMoo  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:46:13am

re: #313 jorline
LMAO
Someone is gonna Jihad your @ss.

320 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:46:22am

re: #260 spirochete

Not everyone celebrates birthdays. Greeks celebrate "name days", which are the days celebrating saints after whom Greek kids are named. So the celebration, or lack of celebration, of birthdays is cultural.

321 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:46:35am

re: #297 realwest

OMG - your link says Venezuela is close to breaking ties with Israel, too! What will Israel do without Bolivia and Venezuela on their side?
/very heavy.


How you doing RW? Trip to the dentist fix ya up? Did he give you some good meds to make you all loopy?

322 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:46:40am

re: #292 Cognito

Don't fall for urban legends. Makes your argument stronger.

excuse me? what urban legend?

323 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:46:45am

re: #318 davinvalkri

Not sharks...dogs and foxes equipped with the wrath of God!
And while we're at it, maybe pigs with class IV lasers on their heads.

There's a user I don't miss ...

324 Opinionated  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:46:58am

re: #284 Kenneth

Israel will wait to be sure who did it. It could be another fringe group (such as al Qaeda) trying to start a wider war.

That is exactly the trap. It was what was said about terror in Israel and when rockets started coming from Gaza. That the perpetrators were not State actors.

Lebanon is a sovereign country, there should be no fringe group myth that should absolve them of the responsibility of controlling their territory- preventing attacks on Israel. It is their sole responsibility.

325 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:47:14am

re: #264 faraway

Dissing the left?

Close Gitmo. Commissions for Bush and Cheney war crimes.

That's pretty centrist.

You are correct on Gitmo, but he's spoken many times against any witch hunts. A few Democratic loons may want it, but Obama says he does not.

326 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:47:31am

re: #274 Opinionated

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

I'll wait with bated breath on Bolivia's proofs about said 'genocide'.
Funny genocide when Gazans breed like rabbits ...

And even funnier 'genocide' when forces elsewhere - not just Darfur, but DR Congo, Sri Lanka, have killed more people than Israel ever did, in all her wars against Arabs.

Facts are such pesky things ...

327 Spider Mensch  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:47:40am

re: #303 Kenneth

Obama is not going to close Gitmo. He's going to give a nice speech & rename it. Problem solved.

Pee Wee's TV fun house?

328 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:47:50am

re: #295 zombie

Yes, young girls may be raped or molested in the US by deranged perverts -- but it is illegal!

Bad things happen everywhere. The difference between a healthy society and an evil society is that the healthy society condemns and penalizes the bad acts; the evil society facilitates and legalizes them.

Not talking about rape or molestation but kids of similar age engaging in sexual acts.

329 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:48:07am

re: #305 Ward Cleaver

Like the Far Side cartoon, "what dogs hear".

Love the {Far Side}

330 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:48:29am

re: #298 DaddyG

Big difference - in the US if someone has sexual relations with a minor they are arrested and placed in the care of hostile criminals. Under Sharia law hostile criminals have sexual relations with minors whom they arrest and stone if they dare try to care for themselves.


You are missing the point.

331 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:48:33am

re: #326 yma o hyd

Forgotten conflicts... Curiously, MSNBC forgot three of the more serious ones of recent years - and all three are Islamic in origin.

332 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:48:36am

re: #249 zombie

Wow. You might be the first to ask that. Interesting.

333 itellu3times  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:48:42am

re: #315 CommonCents

My wife says that Victoria Secret has a section for young girls now. My 8 yr old niece wanted a VS gift certificate for Xmas. WTF?!?!?

OK, now Larry Flynt needs to start a mag for 8 year old boys.

Y'know, nothing much good is going to come from this whole topic.

334 prince of dorkness  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:48:53am

Allah another name for Satan.

335 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:48:55am

Watching cease-fire negotiations on Rooster-cam right now. The Israelis seem to be making a quite a compelling case.

336 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:49:05am

re: #324 Opinionated

That is exactly the trap. It was what was said about terror in Israel and when rockets started coming from Gaza. That the perpetrators were not State actors.

Lebanon is a sovereign country, there should be no fringe group myth that should absolve them of the responsibility of controlling their territory- preventing attacks on Israel. It is their sole responsibility.

exactly...there has to be a clear line here because people are going to die...I hope you're right...Lebanon is a sovereign nation or it isnt....strategies vary

337 apachegunner  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:49:09am

re: #329 midwestgak

Love the {Far Side}

gotta far side calendar right here in front of me :>)

338 zombie  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:49:11am

re: #288 Taqiyyotomist

I think its a bit of both. Science and its use to change public opinion. Could it be that the age of puberty is going down in direct inverse proportion to the amount of audio and visual sexuality kids are exposed to?

No.

Environmental stimuli like songs and TV cannot possibly affect biological processes such as the onset of pubescence.

However, girls can certainly start acting sexual at younger ages due to cultural influences (which is definitely happening). Thus, a 13-year-girl in the 19th century may have hit puberty but still acted demure and modest. But a 13-year-old girl today who hits puberty has actually been practicing acting sexual since she was 8 years old -- so she's already mentally prepared to begin acting sexual the moment she is capable of it.

339 jorline  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:49:26am

re: #319 BigMoo

LMAO
Someone is gonna Jihad your @ss.

I guess I should draw a cartoon to go with it. ;)

340 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:49:51am

re: #321 HoosierHoops
Hey Hoops - trip to dentist was fine, got all fixed up, but no happy pills.
OTOH, no need for an extraction, either and that's better than an even trade off!

341 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:50:11am

re: #325 avanti

You are correct on Gitmo, but he's spoken many times against any witch hunts. A few Democratic loons may want it, but Obama says he does not.

Really? Better tell the leftists - and Obama. Obama Considering Commission on Bush Admin Torture

342 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:50:17am

re: #324 Opinionated

That is exactly the trap. It was what was said about terror in Israel and when rockets started coming from Gaza. That the perpetrators were not State actors.

Lebanon is a sovereign country, there should be no fringe group myth that should absolve them of the responsibility of controlling their territory- preventing attacks on Israel. It is their sole responsibility.

See Monopoly on Violence

Either they launched it, or thru action or inaction, allowed the launches to occur. Either they are responsible for the outcome or they cease to be a legitimate state.

343 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:50:17am

I saw this this morning. Still sick to my stomach.

344 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:50:17am

re: #334 prince of dorkness

Allah another name for Satan.

That is completely out of line.

345 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:50:31am

re: #249 zombie

Women are property in these societies in any event. Having sex with an underage "bride" certainly teaches her who's boss in a hurry! No protection from her parents, either. ;-(

346 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:50:49am

re: #324 Opinionated
Excellent comment, just spot on! Thanks.

347 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:51:12am

re: #292 Cognito

Don't fall for urban legends. Makes your argument stronger.

Here is an interesting link.

The events were well documented as it became a public health matter when the group sex these teens were involved in produced a syphilis outbreak. The excerpt here cites "six white female subjects (four of whom were younger than 16 years of age)" and goes on to describe the minors as only being under the age of 16.

It is over a decade since it happened, but IIRC at least one of the four was 10 when she contracted syphilis. I will look further for the links, but thought you'd find the sources credible.

348 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:51:43am

re: #337 apachegunner

gotta far side calendar right here in front of me :>)

Cool. What's today's cartoon?

349 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:51:56am

re: #341 faraway

Really? Better tell the leftists - and Obama. Obama Considering Commission on Bush Admin Torture

if it comes to it...indicting retired presidents for crimes while in office is just insane on every level

350 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:52:00am

re: #337 apachegunner

gotta far side calendar right here in front of me :>)

I couldn't find one this year! :( I had to settle for a small sized Simpsons calendar.

351 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:52:08am

re: #15 wiffersnapper

do it for to the kids*

352 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:52:11am

re: #326 yma o hyd
"Facts are such pesky things ..."
That's why the Left never let's 'em stand in their way!

353 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:52:16am

re: #302 CommonCents

So are they confessing that they have no authority to prosecute Hamas thugs either? What good are they if they only prosecute the good guys?

I'd hazard the guess (not a lawyer, me) that Israel, being a state, might actually have a case against Hamas, since the missiles fired by Hamas were against purely civilian targets, aimed to do maximum damgae.

354 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:52:31am

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Islamophobia.

355 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:52:32am

re: #349 albusteve

if it comes to it...indicting retired presidents for crimes while in office is just insane on every level

Civil War will ensue.

356 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:52:53am

Here is a research study that shows:
Increasing paternal age is associated with delayed conception in a large population of fertile couples: evidence for declining fecundity in older men

Older men have to copulate more for conception to occur...

[Link: humrep.oxfordjournals.org...]

357 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:53:05am

re: #292 Cognito

Cog, as someone in medicine, I can attest to the validity of this.

I won't go into details, but suffice it to say, I can verify there was a huge flare up with this in one of our local schools a couple of years ago where I am near.

(lab testing, records, etc.)

358 unrealizedviewpoint  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:53:13am

re: #7 Kosh's Shadow

I won't be surprised if a Muslim is caught molesting children in the US, and claims he is being persecuted because of his religious beliefs.
The ACLU and other leftards will be jumping all over themselves to defend him.

I suppose this probably occurs daily (in Muslim homes) throughout the West. It's gotta be near impossible to detect. Who's gonna talk?

359 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:53:31am

re: #344 jwb7605

That is completely out of line.

A saudi apostate told me the same thing.

360 Texas Heathen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:53:31am

re: #288 Taqiyyotomist

my 6yo was singing "I kissed a girl and I liked it" last night. :(

361 Pietr  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:53:34am

OT-Gaza Cam few minutes back showed a FLARE?, at ground level-but it appeared to highlight an IDF tank to the left of it. Cam has since gone left about 60 degrees, seems to show a bright lit street, over mid left.....

362 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:53:46am

re: #356 notutopia

Here is a research study that shows:
Increasing paternal age is associated with delayed conception in a large population of fertile couples: evidence for declining fecundity in older men

Older men have to copulate more for conception to occur...

[Link: humrep.oxfordjournals.org...]

Viva Viagra!

363 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:54:02am

re: #349 albusteve

if it comes to it...indicting retired presidents for crimes while in office is just insane on every level

upding. I wish I could add something to that comment.

364 zombie  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:54:12am

re: #328 newsjunkie_ky

Not talking about rape or molestation but kids of similar age engaging in sexual acts.

Well, yes, kids who have reached puberty are encouraged by modern American culture to act sexual (with each other). But I think that kids who haven't reached puberty are going to be pretty hard to convince to engage in sex, since it will hold no interest for them yet.

I'm quite sure these 10-year-old girls getting married off against their will in Muslim countries are not yet even pubescent.

365 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:54:27am

re: #295 zombie

Yes, young girls may be raped or molested in the US by deranged perverts -- but it is illegal!

Bad things happen everywhere. The difference between a healthy society and an evil society is that the healthy society condemns and penalizes the bad acts; the evil society facilitates and legalizes them.

Um, unless they're from the nation to the south of us. They are allowed. Mexican girls as young as 12 and 13 are giving birth to anchor babies on our dime, with no questions asked. It's "CULTURAL", doncha know, and we can't judge them.

366 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:54:29am

re: #334 prince of dorkness

Allah another name for Satan.

That's my take.

367 Amer-I-Can  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:54:37am

Start the brainwashing training early.

368 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:54:42am

re: #154 faraway

VERY SHARP OBSERVATION! DING DING DING DING.

369 apachegunner  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:54:44am

re: #348 midwestgak
errrrrr, it's last years calendar. A dog in a dress, looking out the window and the bottom of the cartoon is missing :>(

370 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:54:48am

re: #360 Texas Heathen

my 6yo was singing "I kissed a girl and I liked it" last night. :(


I give it an 85..It has a good beat and it's fun to dance to.
/

371 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:54:52am

re: #300 quickjustice

Hardly. As Limbaugh noted, he's trying to co-opt the right-wing pundits inside the beltway, and also identify them as the "legitimate" spokesmen for the right, as opposed to Limbaugh and Coulter. On the side, he's promised them access to his administration and probably invitations to the White House and the DC social scene.

In short, he's trying to charm them and buy them off. We'll see if it works.

Not going to disagree with any of that. I'm sure it was a political calculation to isolate Limbaugh and Coulter. Even Karl Rove would be impressed. Obama knows the likes of Kristal and O'reily will never agree with his politics, but they might like him personally and he's tossing them a bone by giving them a seat at the table. By so doing, he may hope they'll play nice to keep the seat.

372 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:54:58am

re: #355 faraway

Civil War will ensue.

Ya really think so? I don't.

Seems to me that folk are rather inured to that sort of thing these days; "ho, hum! Oh, look, they're going after that 'W' fellow." "What'd he do?" "roughed up some goatherders or something."

373 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:55:17am

re: #330 newsjunkie_ky

You are missing the point.

Obviously - but if you care to elaborate don't bother going down the moral equivocation road. Evil dictators have been using the sins of our popular culture as justification for their own perverse means as long as we've been a country.

374 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:55:24am

re: #7 Kosh's Shadow

I won't be surprised if a Muslim is caught molesting children in the US, and claims he is being persecuted because of his religious beliefs.
The ACLU and other leftards will be jumping all over themselves to defend him.

Well, there was already the case of the Saudi in Colorado who was convicted of practicing slavery, and of course he cried that he was being persecuted for his "religious observances."

I just hope he got an African-American cellmate.

375 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:55:46am

re: #249 zombie

‘A female who is 10 or 12 is marriageable and those who think she’s too young are wrong and are being unfair to her,’ he said during a Monday lecture, according to the pan-Arab Al-Hayat newspaper.

One thing that's always bothered me:

The Islamic calendar is 354 days long. Which means it is 11.25 days out of whack from a true sidereal year. I once read that, in pre-modern times, people's ages in Arab countries were (naturally) calculated using the Islamic calendar. However, their stated age is then actually higher than it really is biologically.

As the classic example, Mohammed married Aisha when she was 6, but didn't have sex with her until she was 9. But she wasn't necessarily 9 biologically -- she had aged 9 Islamic years. Which means that her ninth birthday happened when she was (11.25 x 9 = 101.25 days; 9 years - 101.25 days =) 8 years 8 months and 19 days old. Which basically means there was about a 30% chance that Aisha was biologically 8 years old when Mohammed violated her.

So, in this new circumstance -- are girls' ages still calculated using the Islamic calendar? It seem that this must be the case, because it would be confusing and absurd to calculate one's birthday according to a calendar that is not used in your country. Thus, a girl that he says can be married at 10 or 12 could actually be 9 or 11 in true years.

Ooooh! That is a great insight to a question that needs answering.

376 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:55:57am

re: #200 yma o hyd

They did not - and in view of the demands by Hams I doubt it will.
Any politician tehre thinking of election/re-election will know that to accept tehse Hamas-demands will mean not just the death of their ambitions but of all of Israel.

Not going to happen.

They may have, This from Jerusalem Post:
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

377 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:55:58am

re: #347 karmic_inquisitor

OK - a source at this site (password protected - try google cache) puts the youngest to contract syphillis at "around 12" when diagnosed. But at that time the "sex ring" had over 200 members and had been going for a few years.

Still looking for a "10".

378 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:56:02am

re: #360 Texas Heathen

I gave one of my kids a long talk about that idiotic song. It's not popular in my house.

379 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:56:33am

Here's today's Calvin & Hobbes cartoon.

380 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:56:37am

re: #361 Pietr

OT-Gaza Cam few minutes back showed a FLARE?, at ground level-but it appeared to highlight an IDF tank to the left of it. Cam has since gone left about 60 degrees, seems to show a bright lit street, over mid left.....

I couldn't make out a tank, and was studying the scene.

Re cam going left, I suspect that the cameraman doesn't want to show us anything which doesn't have propaganda value.

Huge violent explosions do. Ground operations close by? ... Well, ask Baghdad Bob what he thinks of them.

381 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:56:58am

re: #341 faraway
Ah, no, not really. Aside from the fact that your link is to Huffington Post, it says

"Despite the hopes of many human-rights advocates, the new Obama Justice Department is not likely to launch major new criminal probes of harsh interrogations and other alleged abuses by the Bush administration," Newsweek's Michael Isikoff reports. "But one idea that has currency among some top Obama advisers is setting up a 9/11-style commission that would investigate counterterrorism policies and make public as many details as possible."

"At a minimum, the American people have to be able to see and judge what happened," said one senior adviser, who asked not to be identified talking about policy matters. The commission would be empowered to order the U.S. intelligence agencies to open their files for review and question senior officials who approved "waterboarding" and other controversial practices.

Obama aides are wary of taking any steps that would smack of political retribution.


Doesn't really match the headline, does it?

382 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:57:03am

re: #357 formercorpsman

Cog, as someone in medicine, I can attest to the validity of this.

I won't go into details, but suffice it to say, I can verify there was a huge flare up with this in one of our local schools a couple of years ago where I am near.

(lab testing, records, etc.)


Same thing in the small city where I used to live. Little girls with STDs were the #1 reason of hospital stays for awhile.

383 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:57:21am

re: #362 MandyManners

Viva Viagra!


Exactly! That is why the high trade value of blackmarketed VIAGRA in Saudi and the middle east!
Worth it's weight in GOLD.

384 Amer-I-Can  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:57:23am

re: #364 zombie

Well, yes, kids who have reached puberty are encouraged by modern American culture to act sexual (with each other).

How sad is that... :-( And I have a teenager at home that I fight this battle with almost daily.

385 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:57:30am
386 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:57:31am

re: #357 formercorpsman

Cog, as someone in medicine, I can attest to the validity of this.

I won't go into details, but suffice it to say, I can verify there was a huge flare up with this in one of our local schools a couple of years ago where I am near.

(lab testing, records, etc.)

One of my daughters during "that time" was invited to a Rainbow party. She was talking to a couple of friends about being invited, and she seemed horrified that "her friend" would even consider it. The friends she was talking to were shocked, too.

I never did find out what a Rainbow party was, I never tried, still don't know, and this statement is not an urban legend.

387 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:57:43am

re: #371 avanti

By so doing, he may hope they'll play nice to keep the seat.

Pay to play?/

388 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:58:20am

re: #317 MandyManners

And science never aims to influence public opinion on matters.
/

389 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:58:25am

re: #364 zombie

Well, yes, kids who have reached puberty are encouraged by modern American culture to act sexual (with each other). But I think that kids who haven't reached puberty are going to be pretty hard to convince to engage in sex, since it will hold no interest for them yet.

I'm quite sure these 10-year-old girls getting married off against their will in Muslim countries are not yet even pubescent.

May or may not. A lot of girls are reaching maturity at a very early age.

390 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:58:27am

re: #338 zombie

Environmental stimuli like songs and TV cannot possibly affect biological processes such as the onset of pubescence.

However, girls can certainly start acting sexual at younger ages due to cultural influences (which is definitely happening). Thus, a 13-year-girl in the 19th century may have hit puberty but still acted demure and modest. But a 13-year-old girl today who hits puberty has actually been practicing acting sexual since she was 8 years old -- so she's already mentally prepared to begin acting sexual the moment she is capable of it.

I have a beautiful 9 yr. old girl who is so blessedly unaware of these cultural forces that I give thanks every day. We don't block all tv or anything, she just has no interest in those things. I lovingly refer to her (just to my wife) as "my little dork". I know it will change to some degree soon, but I'm loving it. One of her 5 yr. old brothers on the other hand? We drove by a sign downtown for an strip club. It was just an outline drawing of a pouty girl in a bikini but he saw it and said "She's a bad girl".

391 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:58:31am

This should be a reason to deny any person from KSA an immigrant or most nonimmigrant visas.

392 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:58:32am

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Kragar, you are one smart kafir.

393 Rexatosis  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:58:33am

The moral depravity of this "Islamic opinion" is completely @$�$*ing evil. It is also biologically just completely nuts, whacko, and not good for the species.

394 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:58:40am

re: #383 notutopia

Exactly! That is why the high trade value of blackmarketed VIAGRA in Saudi and the middle east!
Worth it's weight in GOLD.

There were 10 cases stolen from near here awhile back.
Police were looking for a harden criminal

395 Kenneth  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:58:41am

re: #324 Opinionated

The problem is Lebanon cannot control it's territory. Hezbollah controls vast sections of territory. Syria continues to "influence" the country. Palestinian refugee camps are no-go areas for Lebanese authorities. The West has been trying to strengthen Lebanese sovereignty, and it has helped a bit. But it will be some time before the central gov't is really in charge over the whole country. If Israel raids Lebanon to deal with these terrorists tacking pot-shots, they will only succeed in reducing Lebanese sovereignty further. The terrorist groups gain from that. Lebanon is very different from Gaza.

396 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:59:08am

re: #328 newsjunkie_ky

Not talking about rape or molestation but kids of similar age engaging in sexual acts.

There is cause to condemn the media for their sexualization of minor children. I don't know a single 10 year old who would voluntarily come to the conclusion that sex play was more fun than dolls or trains. In every instance I've seen these kids were introduced to this behavior by being exposed to inappropriate media or wrose a predator.

397 little boomer  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:59:20am

re: #344 jwb7605

That is completely out of line.

No offense, but have you read the Koran?

398 apachegunner  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:59:43am

re: #348 midwestgak

Cool. What's today's cartoon?


heres one. two cave men standing outside their cave holding a lab coat on a hanger saying "we've got the labcoats. now we need a good excuse to wear them" bottom of cartoon says @The Birth of Science@

399 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:59:44am

re: #383 notutopia

Exactly! That is why the high trade value of blackmarketed VIAGRA in Saudi and the middle east!
Worth it's weight in GOLD.

I see a promising career! Now, if I could figure out how to get there without flying.

400 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:07am

Mandy, you rock.

401 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:10am

re: #34 Sizzlack

Hah. Yea the UN will probably say 10 is too old.

No. The UN is good with that. Head of UN refugee agency: "disturbing allegations" and six years later, UN chief pledges yadda yadda here we go again.

But wait, there's more

Last year, one of the many stories of U.N. scandal involved peacekeepers committing terrible acts of sex abuse on children in the Congo.

This year, one of the many stories of U.N. scandal involves peacekeepers committing terrible acts of sex abuse on children in the Congo.

And no, this is not a recording.

Reuters reported last week: "The United Nations is investigating a suspected child prostitution ring involving its peacekeepers and government soldiers in the Democratic Republic of Congo, the U.N. mission said on Thursday."

After reports emerged last year that U.N. peacekeepers were trading food for sex with girls as young as 10 or 11, the world body promised to clean up its act. So, naturally, it drafted a new policy – a code of conduct for its peacekeepers. It claimed it was investigating. It sent one French peacekeeper home. (No word on whether he was allowed to eat his supper.)

And now, in the same place, within the same peacekeeping mission, the same charges have emerged yet again.


The root of all evil is the love of ---well----err, gack. The propensity seems to be widespread. Power tends to corrupt. Anywhere, in any religion or culture. Trouble is, some cultures dish up far too many situations that fit right in with this propensity, putting men into positions of unchecked and unanswerable authority.

Islam needs to cleanse itself of people such as this Mufti, but Dar al UN could use a good Herculean cleaning as well.

402 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:17am

I think Islam has a lot of issues with sex and sexuality.

403 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:31am

re: #381 realwest

Ah, no, not really. Aside from the fact that your link is to Huffington Post, it says


Doesn't really match the headline, does it?

Obama on Sunday talk show:

OBAMA: We're still evaluating how we're going to approach the whole issue of interrogations, detentions, and so forth. And obviously we're going to look at past practices. And I don't believe that anybody is above the law.

404 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:40am

LIBERALS OUTRAGED AT INAUGURATION COSTS!

In Sunday's New York Times, John Tierney examined the delicate balancing act administrations face when throwing a lavish inauguration celebration against the backdrop of unsettling world events. Tierney wrote that inaugurations "become even trickier during times of war, particularly when television images of dancers in black tie can be instantly juxtaposed with soldiers in body armor."

Tierney must be confusing the D.C. press corps as it might be expected to function -- posing uncomfortable questions to those in power -- with the press corps that exists in Washington today.

Oops. Thats from 2005 and Bush's inauguration, doesn't apply to the coronation of the Messiah-King

405 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:48am

re: #402 WriterMom

I think Islam has a lot of issues with sex and sexuality.

Because mohammed was a pervert.

406 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:48am

re: #388 Taqiyyotomist

And science never aims to influence public opinion on matters.
/

I retort by saying public opinion never aims to influence science, either.
/Al Gore

407 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:49am

re: #377 karmic_inquisitor

In 1993, 16% of Georgia's children reported first having sex prior to age 13.

That was before internet pron.

Still looking for "10"

408 mjwsatx  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:50am

from Wikipedia:

Rainbow party (sexuality)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

A rainbow party is an urban legend about a group sex event involving oral sex. At these parties, said to be increasingly popular among adolescents, females wear various shades of lipstick and supposedly take turns fellating males in sequence; this leaves a "rainbow" of colors on their penises. The idea was first publicized by Oprah Winfrey's talk show in 2003. Deborah Tolman, director of the Center for Research on Gender and Sexuality at San Francisco State University writes: "This 'phenomenon' has all the classic hallmarks of a moral panic. One day we have never heard of rainbow parties and then suddenly they are everywhere, feeding on adults' fears that morally-bankrupt sexuality among teens is rampant, despite any actual evidence, as well as evidence to the contrary."[1]

409 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:51am

re: #349 albusteve

That's not a war crime trial as was suggested, from your link:


"Despite the hopes of many human-rights advocates, the new Obama Justice Department is not likely to launch major new criminal probes of harsh interrogations and other alleged abuses by the Bush administration," Newsweek's Michael Isikoff reports.

"But one idea that has currency among some top Obama advisers is setting up a 9/11-style commission that would investigate counterterrorism policies and make public as many details as possible."

410 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:00:59am

re: #64 spirochete

It caused me to learn history.

Sure. But you have to go back about 500 years. When the West was in it's Middle Ages (about 800 AD-1400 AD), the Islamic world was in fact the leader in science and also in toleration. Amazing, but true. They were well advanced in astronomy, math and most other scientific endeavors. They were also surprisingly tolerant of other beliefs of people who lived among them. Certainly more so than almost all of the West.

411 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:01:19am

re: #394 HoosierHoops

There were 10 cases stolen from near here awhile back.
Police were looking for a harden criminal


LoL.
They need to look for the newest Swiss vault account!

412 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:01:39am

re: #395 Kenneth

But isn't the U.N. on the border, to stop rocket attacks from happening ?

/////

413 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:01:59am

re: #398 apachegunner

heres one. two cave men standing outside their cave holding a lab coat on a hanger saying "we've got the labcoats. now we need a good excuse to wear them" bottom of cartoon says @The Birth of Science@

LOL. I repeat. Love the {Far Side}.

414 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:01:59am

re: #404 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Wicked! Sent it to Hot Air. HAHAHAHHAHA!

415 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:02:01am

re: #382 newsjunkie_ky


I think it actually might be tapering off just slightly now.

But about ten years ago, it was a huge deal where I am.

Talk of the town and then some. Of course, I am not allowed to divulge anything anyway, but it made my jaw drop.

416 A.W.  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:02:03am

re: #5 Sizzlack

I give it fifteen minutes before all of this is somehow blamed on Bush.

417 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:02:36am

re: #403 faraway

Obama on Sunday talk show:

OBAMA: We're still evaluating how we're going to approach the whole issue of interrogations, detentions, and so forth. And obviously we're going to look at past practices. And I don't believe that anybody is above the law.


that lie isnt even veiled...what an idiot

418 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:02:44am

re: #408 mjwsatx

from Wikipedia:

Rainbow party (sexuality)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

A rainbow party is an urban legend about a group sex event involving oral sex. At these parties, said to be increasingly popular among adolescents, females wear various shades of lipstick and supposedly take turns fellating males in sequence; this leaves a "rainbow" of colors on their penises. The idea was first publicized by Oprah Winfrey's talk show in 2003. Deborah Tolman, director of the Center for Research on Gender and Sexuality at San Francisco State University writes: "This 'phenomenon' has all the classic hallmarks of a moral panic. One day we have never heard of rainbow parties and then suddenly they are everywhere, feeding on adults' fears that morally-bankrupt sexuality among teens is rampant, despite any actual evidence, as well as evidence to the contrary."[1]

I updinged your post for the information, but I wish I still didn't know.

419 Racer X  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:02:45am

I was going to post a wisecrack about 'a perfect ten' or perhaps mention the Bo Derek movie '10', but then I realized this really isn't a humorous subject.

So I won't.

420 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:02:51am

re: #387 midwestgak

By so doing, he may hope they'll play nice to keep the seat.

Pay to play?/

Exactly, you scratch me, and I'll scratch you, it's politics.

421 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:03:10am

re: #328 newsjunkie_ky
I agree with you on that.
BTW, nice new avatar you've got there!

422 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:03:12am

re: #338 zombie

I'm not suggesting a link between merely audio and visuals. Music and movies and TV all convey Philosophy. Everything you watch and listen to conveys a Philosophical worldview.

423 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:03:17am

re: #154 faraway

The AP equates Jews with rats that scurry

Mice. See Maus

424 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:03:35am

re: #276 newsjunkie_ky

In case you are not aware, little girls as young as 10 or younger are engaging in sexual acts in the US.
Ever heard of 'rainbow parties'?
bill clinton and the liberals have told girls oral sex is not sex.

but here they are not sanctioned and encouraged by the state and the religious groups.

425 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:03:47am

re: #376 CapeCoddah

They may have, This from Jerusalem Post:
[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Looks to me as if there are talks about talks and proposals - with Israel's demands not on the table yet, and the hamasthugs in Damscus saying 'nyet', in Arabic.

Meanwhile, the IDF is fighting on -and will go on fighting.

426 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:03:51am

OT: I think this is a great quote IRT why we elect our officials.

This is why I’ve long held that the average person is not as bright as you might hope. Once you get beyond discussing the weather, the state of the roads, TV programs, and sports, there’s often no one home. And that’s the average person. But by definition, 50% of the population is less than average. And they all vote. It’s not hard to figure how they’ll vote, in that an estimated 47% of Americans over 18 don’t pay income taxes. I admit to being somewhat removed from life among these people, but it’s hard to see how they can even live on so little money. Maybe they’re smarter than I think. But then, people are tolerably competent at running their own lives; the problem arises when they try to run everyone else’s too. The problem arises when they become politically active.

It would appear they elected Bush, twice, during the boom, because a boom – like a bull market – makes everyone think he’s a genius. The average guy initially liked Bush because they sensed he was a moron, and it was easy to feel superior to him. The problem was the average guy was right about Bush being a moron (which, incidentally, is a clinical term, not just a pejorative). But only an imbecile (another clinical term, referring to a person even less intelligent than a moron) would trust a moron to control the fate of a country. Now they all look like idiots (which is your classification if you don’t quite make the grade as an imbecile).


-Doug Casey

427 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:03:53am

re: #344 jwb7605

That is completely out of line.

I concur. It should be Iblis.

/now it should make sense to them culturally.

428 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:03:56am

WICKED!

Gorgeous Israeli law student from Sderot confronts UN on "Human Rights".

429 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:04:01am
yesterday, the House Judiciary committee got behind a very different approach, releasing a nearly 500-page report that recommends establishing a blue-ribbon commission -- along the lines of the 9/11 commission, but with subpoena power -- to investigate whether crimes were committed. (Last week, as we reported over at Election Central, Judiciary chair John Conyers and nine other lawmakers introduced a bill to set up such a commission.)

The report also advocates an investigation by the Justice Department, potentially involving a special prosecutor. And in addition to focusing on issues of torture, wiretapping, and the like, the report also recommends continuing to probe matters like the leaking of the name of former CIA agent Valerie Plame, and the US Attorney firings.

430 Texas Heathen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:04:15am

re: #378 WriterMom

I gave one of my kids a long talk about that idiotic song. It's not popular in my house.

My reaction was pretty much the same. :)

431 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:04:26am

re: #407 karmic_inquisitor

In 1993, 16% of Georgia's children reported first having sex prior to age 13.

That was before internet pron.

Still looking for "10"

Look in Child Sex Abuse case statistics.

432 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:04:40am

re: #409 avanti

That's not a war crime trial as was suggested, from your link:

"Despite the hopes of many human-rights advocates, the new Obama Justice Department is not likely to launch major new criminal probes of harsh interrogations and other alleged abuses by the Bush administration," Newsweek's Michael Isikoff reports.

"But one idea that has currency among some top Obama advisers is setting up a 9/11-style commission that would investigate counterterrorism policies and make public as many details as possible."

it was not my link...and I was not speaking necessarily of war crimes

433 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:04:58am

re: #403 faraway
Well I say let 'em bring it on - I like the precedent of investingating former presidents - especially with this one coming into office.

434 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:05:21am

re: #403 faraway

Translation: We'll waterboard if we have to, we just wont tell Joe Public. The Media wont touch it.

435 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:05:23am

SO, I hear conflicting opinions on the Rooster-cam:

Is the operator pointing away from the real action, focusing instead on the photogenic flares and such, and thus avoiding showing IDF kicking the tabbouleh out of the brave resistance fighters?

OR

Is there really nothing much going on, and so not much to film? Although the close-in flares from earlier make this one seem unlikely.

OR

Is there no rooster at all?

436 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:05:23am

re: #366 MandyManners

That's my take.

Mine, too. And yes, the opinions of many ex-Muslims seem to coincide.

437 prince of dorkness  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:05:41am

re: #334 prince of dorkness

Allah another name for Satan.

That is completely out of line.

I think not. What other religion has the tenets that Islam has? Even Mohamed thought his religious "visions" were from Satan. It was one of his uncles that convinced him that it was the angel Gabriel delivering the visions. From a religious perspective why is it beyond reason that Mo's first impression wasn't the correct one? And wasn't "Allah" the name of a pre-Islamic/pagan moon god?

I'm not saying all Muslims are evil. I'm suggesting they have been fooled. "Prince of Lies" and all that.

438 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:06:37am

re: #425 yma o hyd

Send the Israeli Cabinet on vacation to one of the tiny islands south of Tahiti. Find one where cellular service doesn't reach.

439 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:06:37am

re: #425 yma o hyd

Looks to me as if there are talks about talks and proposals - with Israel's demands not on the table yet, and the hamasthugs in Damscus saying 'nyet', in Arabic.

Meanwhile, the IDF is fighting on -and will go on fighting.

I hope so. They cannot stop now. They just can't.

440 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:06:43am

re: #408 mjwsatx

from Wikipedia:

Rainbow party (sexuality)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

A rainbow party is an urban legend about a group sex event involving oral sex. At these parties, said to be increasingly popular among adolescents, females wear various shades of lipstick and supposedly take turns fellating males in sequence; this leaves a "rainbow" of colors on their penises. The idea was first publicized by Oprah Winfrey's talk show in 2003. Deborah Tolman, director of the Center for Research on Gender and Sexuality at San Francisco State University writes: "This 'phenomenon' has all the classic hallmarks of a moral panic. One day we have never heard of rainbow parties and then suddenly they are everywhere, feeding on adults' fears that morally-bankrupt sexuality among teens is rampant, despite any actual evidence, as well as evidence to the contrary."[1]


Well then it must be an urban legend if Wikipedia or snopes says so. They are such reliable, non-agenda driven sources.
//////////

441 hellosnackbar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:06:47am

Immigration Official" Is the child in the push chair entered on your passport Sir?"
Middle aged muslim male "That's my wife you're talking about"

442 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:06:58am

re: #407 karmic_inquisitor

Here is a MSM story about a rash of Birth Control Pill prescriptions being written for 10 year old girls.

Verifiable info. One can assume girls on the pill are either sexually active or expect to be so soon.

So - Cognito - why the stick up your ass about that assertion being an urban legend when you could have done what I did if you thought it weak?

443 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:07:19am

re: #433 realwest

Well I say let 'em bring it on - I like the precedent of investingating former presidents - especially with this one coming into office.

you have a good point there!...

444 Noah's Arrrgh  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:07:31am

re: #106 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Muslims at one time were a great cataloger of knowledge, which filtered to the West following the Crusades. The West and Christianity subsequently underwent the Reformation and Enlightenment. Islam remained firmly rooted in the 7th century.

Even before that, in the Middle Ages, there was a flourishing of innovation, as is documented, among others, by the historian Regine Pernoud. Other historians, like Hilaire Belloc, note that many of the innovations of Islam happened at the beginning when muslim culture had not yet been degraded by Islam, in other words, while muslim societies were still drawing much of their inspiration from their Christian and Jewish patrimony.

My point is that it is more than just being rooted in the 7th century, as if that was the nadir of human existence. The crimes of Nazism and Communism in the 20th century far outstrip it. The real problem is that Islam normalizes and rationalizes things that are objectively evil, such as lying, sexual slavery, polygamy, holy war, etc. What's more, it is said that the danger of a lie is in proportion to the truth it retains, and it is just so with Islam. It keeps just enough truth and goodness in its theology to be able foster large societies. Societies with severe, profound pathologies never become large enough to bother their neighbors too much, because they never manage to sustain themselves (eg Sparta). But Islam, with about a billion adherents, has the human resources to be able to create a lot of mischief in the world.

445 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:07:33am

re: #428 WriterMom

WICKED!

Gorgeous Israeli law student from Sderot confronts UN on "Human Rights".

My youngest brother is six. The rockets have been falling for eight years. He knows no other reality.

Started tearing up at that.

446 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:07:35am

re: #330 newsjunkie_ky

You are missing the point.

believe you have missed the point. we are not talking about the age kids experiment with sex. history is full of stories of such.

The story is state sanctioned and religious group sanctioned child brides.

447 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:07:45am

re: #437 prince of dorkness

Psssssssssttttttt...how's about giving the "quote" button a try?

448 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:07:56am

re: #410 MJBrutus

Sure. But you have to go back about 500 years. When the West was in it's Middle Ages (about 800 AD-1400 AD), the Islamic world was in fact the leader in science and also in toleration. Amazing, but true. They were well advanced in astronomy, math and most other scientific endeavors. They were also surprisingly tolerant of other beliefs of people who lived among them. Certainly more so than almost all of the West.

Tolerant if you pay the Jizya, yeah. I don't consider "pay me or I kill you" as a terribly tolerant attitude. And I'm not entirely sure the advanced in sciences meme is entirely accurate either.

449 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:07:56am

re: #381 realwest

Ah, no, not really. Aside from the fact that your link is to Huffington Post, it says


Doesn't really match the headline, does it?

I noticed that to, they sure as hell spun the headline.

450 realwest  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:08:06am

Well y'all I'm outta here for a while. Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

451 little boomer  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:08:13am

re: #437 prince of dorkness

Mohammad himself admits to not being able to tell the difference between a divine and satanic revelation.

452 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:09:25am

re: #442 karmic_inquisitor

Here is a MSM story about a rash of Birth Control Pill prescriptions being written for 10 year old girls.

Verifiable info. One can assume girls on the pill are either sexually active or expect to be so soon.

So - Cognito - why the stick up your ass about that assertion being an urban legend when you could have done what I did if you thought it weak?

It's easier to take swipes from Mount Olympus. He did the same yesterday with the photograph of the Gazan market yet he oh-so slyly called the Lizard who posted it a liar.

453 subsailor68  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:09:51am

re: #433 realwest

Well I say let 'em bring it on - I like the precedent of investingating former presidents - especially with this one coming into office.

Just a question - honestly, I don't really know - but given the Founding Fathers' inclusion of impeachment in the Constitution, might not the Supreme Court find the use of a panel/commission, etc. unconstitutional when looking at the President or Vice President?

454 Miss Trixie  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:10:05am

re: #305 Ward Cleaver

Like the Far Side cartoon, "what dogs hear".

Here.

:D

455 newsjunkie_ky  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:10:42am

re: #424 Outrider

but here they are not sanctioned and encouraged by the state and the religious groups.


This is true and thank goodness for that.
I can not write what I feel about the practice of child molestation and rape in islam, I would surely be banned.

456 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:10:45am

re: #437 prince of dorkness

re: #334 prince of dorkness

Allah another name for Satan.

That is completely out of line.

I think not. What other religion has the tenets that Islam has? Even Mohamed thought his religious "visions" were from Satan. It was one of his uncles that convinced him that it was the angel Gabriel delivering the visions. From a religious perspective why is it beyond reason that Mo's first impression wasn't the correct one? And wasn't "Allah" the name of a pre-Islamic/pagan moon god?

I'm not saying all Muslims are evil. I'm suggesting they have been fooled. "Prince of Lies" and all that.

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
Galatians I, 1:8-9
In another letter, St. Paul warns that Satan can disguise himself as an angel.

457 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:11:02am

Woohoo! New camera shot, two shiny flares!

458 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:11:02am

The fire-fight's back again.

459 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:11:07am

re: #451 little boomer

Mohammad himself admits to not being able to tell the difference between a divine and satanic revelation.

Talk about not knowing the difference between one's butt and a hole in the ground!

460 faraway  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:11:11am

I thought my Internet was running fast today. 107 MPS - or 40x T1 speed

461 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:11:17am

re: #454 Miss Trixie

Here.

:D

Obviously, the cartoonist has never been owned by a dog!

462 red satellite  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:11:32am
'Our mothers and before them, our grandmothers, married when they were barely 12,' said Al Sheikh, according to the Al-Hayat newpaper.

Grandmothers at 24 years old? Great Grandmothers at 36? Aha! That explains Maureen Dowd

463 Racer X  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:11:34am

re: #442 karmic_inquisitor

Here is a MSM story about a rash of Birth Control Pill prescriptions being written for 10 year old girls.

Verifiable info. One can assume girls on the pill are either sexually active or expect to be so soon.

So - Cognito - why the stick up your ass about that assertion being an urban legend when you could have done what I did if you thought it weak?

I wouldn't panic just yet.

A study of GP practices and family planning clinics found that at least two 10-year-olds were among 23 girls aged under 13 who were given the Pill last year.

464 gop_patriot  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:11:38am

OK so what's up with the flares on the Gaza Cam. Who is shooting them? What is the purpose?

Any military lizards want to help me out?

465 Kenneth  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:11:50am

re: #428 WriterMom

One million updings!

"My youngest brother is six. The rockets have been falling for eight years. He knows no other reality."

466 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:11:52am

re: #457 Guanxi88

Woohoo! New camera shot, two shiny flares!

I think it might be on a loop; saw the same flares and orange-red tracers, on the same path, not long ago

467 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:12:27am

Despite what every parent thinks half of humanity are of below average intelligence. If you want to be practical and call everything within one standard deviation of the mean as 'normal' then about one in six are at the low end tail. I have no idea how they vote but I do believe that far to many people do vote.

468 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:12:32am

re: #457 Guanxi88

Woohoo! New camera shot, two shiny flares!

Those are white phosphorus flares! War crime! War crime!
/

469 Dave the.....  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:13:05am

A left wing chruch, supporting right wingers in the mideast, has this on their web site:

Violence in Gaza has compromised the services of medical clinics and limited people's access to food, water and other basic necessities, according to Megan Bradfield, associate director for international development and disaster response, ELCA Global Mission.

Since air raids in Gaza began in late December, more than 900 Palestinians have died, including nearly 400 women and children. Ten Israeli soldiers and three Israeli civilians have died, according to news reports.

I want that fact-checked. Where is the most reliable source for stats? This place is very dramatic in their propaganda so I want to call them on it.

470 Miss Trixie  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:13:08am

re: #402 WriterMom

I think Islam has a lot of issues with sex and sexuality.

Yup and yup.

'round and 'round it goes.

471 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:13:19am

re: #428 WriterMom

WICKED!

Gorgeous Israeli law student from Sderot confronts UN on "Human Rights".

I won't hold my breath for a response.

I gotta run and go do life things.

Continue the fight.

472 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:13:37am

There's a bill they want to pass that gives, in part, the Treasury Secretary authority to ensure the economic well being of Americans. TARP.

How is that even . . . . .? Never mind.

473 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:13:56am

re: #453 subsailor68

Just a question - honestly, I don't really know - but given the Founding Fathers' inclusion of impeachment in the Constitution, might not the Supreme Court find the use of a panel/commission, etc. unconstitutional when looking at the President or Vice President?

yes..I do...taken further it sets up a politburo type scenario...anybody can do that but to be sanctioned by congress I would bet is unconstitutional...at least I hope so...there is a distinct separation of powers issue here

474 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:14:00am

re: #464 gop_patriot

OK so what's up with the flares on the Gaza Cam. Who is shooting them? What is the purpose?

Any military lizards want to help me out?

It's a fire-fight on the ground.
Most (if not all) of those flares are from the ground, not from aircraft.
I doubt that Hamas or the IDF are shooting at themselves.

475 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:14:21am

re: #453 subsailor68

Just a question - honestly, I don't really know - but given the Founding Fathers' inclusion of impeachment in the Constitution, might not the Supreme Court find the use of a panel/commission, etc. unconstitutional when looking at the President or Vice President?

For a sitting President no, but a panel or commission reviewing past policies like 9-11, the intelligence failures on WMD, the mortgage mess and such are fair game.

476 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:14:21am
477 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:14:22am

re: #452 MandyManners

Really. That's obnoxious.

478 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:14:47am

re: #469 Dave the.....

A left wing chruch, supporting right wingers in the mideast, has this on their web site:

I want that fact-checked. Where is the most reliable source for stats? This place is very dramatic in their propaganda so I want to call them on it.

900 Gazans? 400+ women and children? We have only their word for it. And some Norwegian doctors word. ;-)>

479 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:14:52am

re: #445 Oh no...Sand People!

And that plea will fall on deaf ears because some people are more equal than others; some dead count for more, and others count for so much less. Israeli dead? Not so much. Those who try to kill Israelis? Heroes.

That's the UN (and HRC) logic for you in a nutshell. /[deleted]

480 subsailor68  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:14:56am

re: #473 albusteve

yes..I do...taken further it sets up a politburo type scenario...anybody can do that but to be sanctioned by congress I would bet is unconstitutional...at least I hope so...there is a distinct separation of powers issue here

Thanks! That was my feeling as well...and I think your use of the word "politburo" is right on.

481 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:15:01am

re: #468 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Those are white phosphorus flares! War crime! War crime!
/

The only "war crimes" I see are crappy camera-work, piss-poor connectivity, and a lack of anything really cool close to the camera.

482 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:15:16am

re: #476 buzzsawmonkey

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I honestly cannot believe that you just put Saudi Arabia, toy, teddy bear and tampon in the same post.

483 spirochete  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:15:24am

citibank down 21%

484 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:15:44am

re: #435 Guanxi88

SO, I hear conflicting opinions on the Rooster-cam:

Is the operator pointing away from the real action, focusing instead on the photogenic flares and such, and thus avoiding showing IDF kicking the tabbouleh out of the brave resistance fighters?

OR

Is there really nothing much going on, and so not much to film? Although the close-in flares from earlier make this one seem unlikely.

OR

Is there no rooster at all?

I'd say yes to the first question.
There are too many ambulances rushing about for 'nothing' to be happening.

And tehhe is a rooster - heard him meself, yesterday.
Its either too early for him, or not bright enough - or someone wrung his neck and he's stew by now ...

485 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:15:58am

re: #472 midwestgak

There's a bill they want to pass that gives, in part, the Treasury Secretary authority to ensure the economic well being of Americans. TARP.

How is that even . . . . .? Never mind.

pure and simple communism....right there

486 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:16:28am

re: #463 Racer X

Not a panic. "Urban Legend" means a myth. Something not real. For those "at least" 2 one can expect to find more, and then one can also expect to find others who did not seek a prescription for the pill.

Pandemic? No. Is it happening? Yes.

So is "10 year olds engaging in sexual activity" and urban legend? It provably is not a myth - it is happening. And Cognito demanded proof after having asserted that it was an Urban Legend - clearly an assertion he failed to support since it was false.

487 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:16:57am

re: #456 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.
Galatians I, 1:8-9
In another letter, St. Paul warns that Satan can disguise himself as an angel.

I will post this once, and drop things.
SandPeople is correct in his #427 reply. I wish he had used the Wikipedia link, instead of just bolding the text.
(maybe it's a her)

488 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:16:58am

Good Afternoon Lizards! The weather hasn't changed in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

Congrats to Small Dead Animals and Ace of Spades!

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

489 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:17:04am

re: #483 spirochete

citibank down 21%

dow down 222

490 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:17:13am

re: #481 Guanxi88

The only "war crimes" I see are crappy camera-work, piss-poor connectivity, and a lack of anything really cool close to the camera.


Bring back mobilecam. Bring back mobilecam!

491 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:17:16am

bbl

492 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:17:21am

re: #484 yma o hyd

I'd say yes to the first question.
There are too many ambulances rushing about for 'nothing' to be happening.

SO, is that HAMAS relocating its leadership, or moving men and materiel to the front?

493 gop_patriot  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:17:22am

re: #474 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It's a fire-fight on the ground.
Most (if not all) of those flares are from the ground, not from aircraft.
I doubt that Hamas or the IDF are shooting at themselves.

Well I figured there was something going on. But I am not sure what the purpose of flares during a battle is. To light up the ground below? Show someone's location (that's what they're used for in the movies lol)? I didn't expect that they were being used as weapons to shoot at each other with.

494 subsailor68  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:17:26am

re: #475 avanti

For a sitting President no, but a panel or commission reviewing past policies like 9-11, the intelligence failures on WMD, the mortgage mess and such are fair game.

I think albusteve in 473 hit on it. Looking into the issues you raise to determine if there was a better way to do things is one thing, but to use it to prosecute a former President seems to me to be a dangerous route.

495 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:17:38am
496 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:17:43am

re: #488 ggt

Good Afternoon Lizards! The weather hasn't changed in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

Congrats to Small Dead Animals and Ace of Spades!

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

Hey ggt. Did you just get to work?////

497 mikeymom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:17:43am

could someone please post a link to gazacam? mine dont seem to be working.

498 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:18:03am

re: #484 yma o hyd

I'd say yes to the first question.
There are too many ambulances rushing about for 'nothing' to be happening.

And tehhe is a rooster - heard him meself, yesterday.
Its either too early for him, or not bright enough - or someone wrung his neck and he's stew by now ...

You know how it is with roosters. You boil one and another will pop-up up to replace him.


:0

499 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:18:16am

re: #475 avanti

For a sitting President no, but a panel or commission reviewing past policies like 9-11, the intelligence failures on WMD, the mortgage mess and such are fair game.

of course...the only problem and it's a big one is politicizing the whole affair...there is payback and backs to stab etc etc...

500 Pietr  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:18:20am

re: #458 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The fire-fight's back again.

Re this and your previous...that center left bldg; it's odd shape fooled me. especially since a lot of tracers have gone toward it, or the area in front of it...crap, nopw we're back on that street scene.....ratzulfazzul.....

501 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:18:25am

re: #438 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Send the Israeli Cabinet on vacation to one of the tiny islands south of Tahiti. Find one where cellular service doesn't reach.

Good point.

I'm getting the impression that olmert is playing hard-man so as to put a spoke into Barak's wheel.

Mind - I have the even stronger feeling that the IDF top brass is calling the shots behind closed doors, and that Barak will be toast when this is over.

502 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:18:30am

re: #490 x-wing

Bring back mobilecam. Bring back mobilecam!

Hows about Monkey-Cam?

503 Ben Hur  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:18:40am

He's conservative.

504 Cognito  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:18:57am

re: #452 MandyManners

It's easier to take swipes from Mount Olympus. He did the same yesterday with the photograph of the Gazan market yet he oh-so slyly called the Lizard who posted it a liar.

No, Mandy. I thought that photo was great, and said so.

As for "rainbow parties" sweeping the nation: No, I don't feel a need to stage an elaborate argument to the contrary. People are smart enough to see their way to the truth.

505 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:19:13am

re: #503 Ben Hur

He's conservative.

who?

506 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:19:28am

re: #484 yma o hyd

It's a seagull.

507 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:19:30am

re: #496 midwestgak

Hey ggt. Did you just get to work?////

No, I'm sitting in front of my computer with my jammies on--like a good Lizard.

How ya' doin'?

508 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:19:34am

re: #484 yma o hyd


Signed -off this A.M. just before 0700. Hadn't heard the Rooster crow for awhile. I'm worried.

509 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:19:58am

re: #469 Dave the.....

A left wing chruch, supporting right wingers in the mideast, has this on their web site:


I want that fact-checked. Where is the most reliable source for stats? This place is very dramatic in their propaganda so I want to call them on it.


there is no reliable source for stats coming from Gaza.
All 'sources' are screened by Hamas just as Hezbo screens everything out of south Lebanon.

510 Prince of Dorkness  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:20:12am

As a very infrequent poster and a horrible typist, I ain't used to all these fancy bells and whistles, but i will take your advice and give it a try. Old dogs and new tricks...


re: #447 MandyManners

Psssssssssttttttt...how's about giving the "quote" button a try?

511 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:20:29am

re: #483 spirochete

citibank down 21%

not my fault, i made my payment.

512 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:20:30am

re: #477 WriterMom

Really. That's obnoxious.

Got my knickers in a twist for a few. Then, when the date of the photograph was proven, he didn't even acknowledge it. (Or, maybe he did and I missed it.)

513 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:20:43am

re: #489 CapeCoddah

dow down 222

Ouch. I don't think tomorrow will be much better.

OT: You still up for getting the Mass. Lizards together?

514 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:20:45am

re: #490 x-wing

Bring back mobilecam. Bring back mobilecam!

Send Al Franken there to recreate his "one man mobile uplink" from the old SNL skits

515 Peacekeeper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:20:55am

re: #482 WriterMom

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


ZA?

516 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:21:05am

re: #497 mikeymom

could someone please post a link to gazacam? mine dont seem to be working.

And which link are you using pray tell?

517 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:21:14am

re: #510 Prince of Dorkness

As a very infrequent poster and a horrible typist, I ain't used to all these fancy bells and whistles, but i will take your advice and give it a try. Old dogs and new tricks...

No, next time try typing you reply BELOW the quote. It will come with time.
/

518 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:21:17am

re: #514 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Send Al Franken there to recreate his "one man mobile uplink" from the old SNL skits

I thought he was there already.

519 Racer X  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:21:27am

re: #486 karmic_inquisitor

I think he was talking about the "Rainbow parties".

520 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:22:00am

Roostercam.

[Link: switch206-01.castup.net...]

521 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:22:00am

re: #519 Racer X

I think he was talking about the "Rainbow parties".

beer and hallucinagens (sp) ?

522 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:22:12am

re: #508 x-wing

Signed -off this A.M. just before 0700. Hadn't heard the Rooster crow for awhile. I'm worried.

Save the Roosters
Image: 18072.jpg

523 MJ  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:22:26am

The New York Times is now promoting the murder of the State of Israel:

Could There Be a One-State Solution?


[Link: thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...]

524 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:23:20am

re: #503 Ben Hur

Good.
One.
HAHAHAHA

525 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:23:27am

re: #488 ggt

Good Afternoon Lizards! The weather hasn't changed in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

Congrats to Small Dead Animals and Ace of Spades!

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

how far west?

526 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:23:43am

OT

Race is still an issue for America...

Wow, for a moment there, I was worried.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

527 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:23:55am

it's......Howdy Rooster Time y'all!

he'll be back...he's following the hens

528 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:23:57am

re: #515 Peacekeeper

YOU. You never write, never ding....

/Jewish mother guilt attempt

529 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:24:09am

re: #479 lawhawk

And that plea will fall on deaf ears because some people are more equal than others; some dead count for more, and others count for so much less. Israeli dead? Not so much. Those who try to kill Israelis? Heroes.

That's the UN (and HRC) logic for you in a nutshell. /[deleted]

Drives me insane.

If that is the game we play. I will take quality over quantity.

1.4 billion = 9 (ambiguous for some) nobel prizes.
13-14 million = 184 nobel prizes.

nuff. said.

530 mikeymom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:24:13am

re: #520 x-wing

thanks

531 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:24:14am

re: #501 yma o hyd

Good point.

I'm getting the impression that olmert is playing hard-man so as to put a spoke into Barak's wheel.

Mind - I have the even stronger feeling that the IDF top brass is calling the shots behind closed doors, and that Barak will be toast when this is over.

I'm glad I stayed for a minute after posting "bbl". Yes, Barak's is the obscenity who worries me. Olmert worries me too, because I think he's an opportunistic chameleon. Flush the lot of 'em!

/a Yank, spouting off

NOW I'm out of here for a while!

532 gymmom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:24:43am

re: #360 Texas Heathen

I have xm radio in my care and can see the titles of the songs. I have been censoring songs for years. My child isn't going to hear the song "Promiscuous", now she's 11 and doesn't hear "I kissed a girl". I have a 14 yr old too, both girls. They have friends (in their catholic school) who watched Tila Tequila!

533 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:24:56am
534 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:25:01am

re: #523 MJ

The New York Times is now promoting the murder of the State of Israel:

Could There Be a One-State Solution?

[Link: thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...]

I propose folding the NYT into a one media solution in which most of the present staff will be terminated and a committee of Lizards replaces the editorial board.

535 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:25:02am

re: #525 Eowyn2

how far west?

Aurora --cornfields to the left of me, Dick Daley to the right.

536 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:25:33am

re: #478 Outrider

900 Gazans? 400+ women and children? We have only their word for it. And some Norwegian doctors word. ;-)>

Are the female 10 yr olds considered women or children? do they get to be counted twice?

537 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:25:37am

re: #507 ggt

No, I'm sitting in front of my computer with my jammies on--like a good Lizard.

How ya' doin'?

Nice for you.

Got to work okay. Hope for the same going home.

538 Racer X  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:25:42am

Don't fear the Rooster.

539 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:25:56am

re: #523 MJ

The New York Times is now promoting the murder of the State of Israel:

Could There Be a One-State Solution?

[Link: thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...]

What life was like for Jews in the "One State Solution"

540 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:26:04am
541 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:26:08am

re: #538 Racer X

Fear the Feetballs. And the IDF.

542 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:26:09am

re: #528 WriterMom

YOU. You never write, never ding....

/Jewish mother guilt attempt

That's nothing. My mother was the premier travel agent for guilt trips.

543 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:26:35am

re: #514 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Send Al Franken there to recreate his "one man mobile uplink" from the old SNL skits

Last night they showed a feed out in the field, Carcamera and then footcamera. They were at a cemetary that Israel supposedly hit.

That was a little ironic because earlier there was an article saying Palis. were running out of room to bury their dead.

544 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:26:47am

Moonlight over Gaza on Rooster-cam right now.

Or is that some new Zionist weapons system?

545 Peacekeeper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:26:48am

re: #538 Racer X

Don't fear the Rooster.


Don't go off half cocked.

546 jorline  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:26:51am

re: #527 albusteve

it's......Howdy Rooster Time y'all!

he'll be back...he's following the hens

According to Sheik Abdul-Aziz Al Sheikh they must be young chicks!

547 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:26:53am

There's some intensifying of ground attacks seen on the Gaza cam right now.

548 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:27:17am

re: #504 Cognito

No, Mandy. I thought that photo was great, and said so.

As for "rainbow parties" sweeping the nation: No, I don't feel a need to stage an elaborate argument to the contrary. People are smart enough to see their way to the truth.

Nice goal post move there.

549 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:27:19am

re: #492 Guanxi88

SO, is that HAMAS relocating its leadership, or moving men and materiel to the front?

Heh.
Both, probably.

(Whats left of both of it, that is ...)

550 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:27:42am

re: #540 ploome hineni

good parental control here

what is a rainbow party?...i've not been following

551 jorline  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:27:57am

re: #537 midwestgak

Nice for you.

Got to work okay. Hope for the same going home.

Good afternoon, {gak}.

552 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:28:35am

re: #482 WriterMom

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I honestly cannot believe that you just put Saudi Arabia, toy, teddy bear and tampon in the same post.

And I got crap for my make up sex joke the other day.

553 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:28:54am

re: #547 notutopia

There's some intensifying of ground attacks seen on the Gaza cam right now.

As noted earlier, the Israelis are just continuing their ceasefire negotiations. What they taught me in Negotiation was that if the other party aren't sincere or trustworthy, you remove them from the room.

554 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:28:59am

re: #533 buzzsawmonkey

Who is this asshat Robert Mackey?

He is a mega-moonbat, mmkay.

555 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:28:59am

need a link foe the Gazatron....please

556 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:29:02am

re: #476 buzzsawmonkey

In other news, the new Saudi Arabian stuffed toy company has brought out a line of teddy bears that double as tampon cozies.

That's appropriate - the Taliban's body bags double as douche cozies.

557 Opinionated  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:29:09am

re: #326 yma o hyd

I'll wait with bated breath on Bolivia's proofs about said 'genocide'.
...

We're condeming Israel- We don't need no stinking proof.

558 MJ  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:29:09am

re: #533 buzzsawmonkey

Who is this asshat Robert Mackey?

I could be a cynic and say he's Pinch Sulzberger's Nom De Guerre.

Actually, he's this guy:

Robert Mackey is a web producer for the New York Times. He also writes, blogs and shoots video for the Times and has written for GQ and Slate, shot photographs for Wired, produced radio segments for The Al Franken Show and produced television reports for the Associated Press, Britain's Channel 4 and the United Nations.

559 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:29:31am

re: #526 Walter L. Newton

OT

Race is still an issue for America...

Wow, for a moment there, I was worried.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Around the World in 80 days

560 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:29:31am

re: #533 buzzsawmonkey

He worked for Air America. Must be a fantastic guy.

561 jorline  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:29:46am

bbl

562 rondeldon  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:29:54am

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

563 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:30:04am
564 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:30:17am

re: #552 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Linky, please.

565 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:30:31am

re: #558 MJ

I could be a cynic and say he's Pinch Sulzberger's Nom De Guerre.

Actually, he's this guy:

Robert Mackey is a web producer for the New York Times. He also writes, blogs and shoots video for the Times and has written for GQ and Slate, shot photographs for Wired, produced radio segments for The Al Franken Show and produced television reports for the Associated Press, Britain's Channel 4 and the United Nations.

Then there is the head-chopping Robert Mackey.

566 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:30:37am

re: #506 Walter L. Newton

It's a seagull.

Oh no it isn't!

We've got seagulls ensting on the rooftops here - nasty big bygers - and their calls are nothing at all like that rooster's.

567 debutaunt  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:30:54am

re: #27 MandyManners

These morons are terrified of women's intelligence and sexuality, so they remove women's primary sexual organ and prevent them from learning. How nice for us.

568 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:30:57am

re: #536 Eowyn2

Are the female 10 yr olds considered women or children? do they get to be counted twice?


I get the feeling that a female is considered a "women" when she starts menstrating. IIRC, some ethnic groups start puberty earlier than others, and "health" plays a part. I don't think marriages are consumated until menstration starts.

Remember this is a medieval culture. Marriage is about "protecting" the girls--getting them out of their fathers household --where they have no valule and into their husband's household where they can produce babies. Females are a resource, not people. It's a different concept of marriage from what we believe all together.

569 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:31:04am
570 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:31:26am

re: #537 midwestgak

Nice for you.

Got to work okay. Hope for the same going home.

I get those days every once in a while.

571 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:31:35am

re: #523 MJ

The New York Times is now promoting the murder of the State of Israel:

Could There Be a One-State Solution?

[Link: thelede.blogs.nytimes.com...]

Who's quotables are included? None other than Edward Said? Enough said.

Said sought Israel's destruction through diplomacy. The Times blog seeks to reestablish it. At least some of the commenters have picked up on it.

The rest are arguing that Israel is inhumane, acting as an apartheid state, or worse. Let's just ignore the terror attacks and that the Palestinians have shown themselves unwilling to live in peace with Israel when given the opportunity. They could have used the past three years to build a workable society in Gaza, but chose the terrorist group that seeks immediate war with Israel; Hamas.

572 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:31:50am

re: #508 x-wing

Signed -off this A.M. just before 0700. Hadn't heard the Rooster crow for awhile. I'm worried.

Haven't heard him either - am worried, too.

But what chance has that poor bird got, with all those starving Gazans ...

573 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:32:06am

re: #448 spirochete

Tolerant if you pay the Jizya, yeah. I don't consider "pay me or I kill you" as a terribly tolerant attitude. And I'm not entirely sure the advanced in sciences meme is entirely accurate either.

It's not a meme, it's history. As they say, you can look it up. Why do you suppose so many starts have Arabic names? Sure, infidels did have to pay up, but in the West, they were treated worse. See the history of the Jews in medieval Europe, for example.

As I see it, when the West was dominated by an earlier and stricter form of Christianity, it was not a society that any of us would have wanted to live in. The West underwent an age of enlightenment and Christianity most assuredly adopted and internalized the advances that arose. Islam today has retreated to the kind of mindset that the West had back then. Today Christianity is a benign influence on people and Islam is dominated by a backwards, barbaric dogma. But it wasn't always that way.

574 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:32:22am

re: #539 Alouette

What life was like for Jews in the "One State Solution"

The end re: #532 gymmom

I have xm radio in my care and can see the titles of the songs. I have been censoring songs for years. My child isn't going to hear the song "Promiscuous", now she's 11 and doesn't hear "I kissed a girl". I have a 14 yr old too, both girls. They have friends (in their catholic school) who watched Tila Tequila!

Tila Tequila - the woman who managed to dumb down MTV!

575 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:32:29am

re: #520 x-wing

Roostercam.

[Link: switch206-01.castup.net...]

576 Peacekeeper  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:32:39am

re: #564 WriterMom

Kinky, please.


behave

577 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:32:58am

re: #532 gymmom

I hate that show. I hate MTV, won't let the kids near it.

578 Opinionated  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:33:05am

re: #560 WriterMom

He worked for Air America.

That, and some cheating and stealing, is good enough to get you a Senate seat from Minnesota.

579 Desert Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:33:29am

re: #567 debutaunt

These morons are terrified of women's intelligence and sexuality, so they remove women's primary sexual organ and prevent them from learning. How nice for us.

Real "manly" men! It must suck to be a women in that culture, of course, it sucks to be a man there as well....let's face it, that culture just sucks!

580 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:33:32am
581 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:33:43am
582 Desert Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:34:09am

re: #572 yma o hyd

Haven't heard him either - am worried, too.

But what chance has that poor bird got, with all those starving Gazans ...

He's on the menu at Gaza Fried Chicken already.....extra crispy

583 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:34:17am

re: #510 Prince of Dorkness

As a very infrequent poster and a horrible typist, I ain't used to all these fancy bells and whistles, but i will take your advice and give it a try. Old dogs and new tricks...

See? It wasn't that hard!

584 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:34:20am
585 Prince of Dorkness  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:34:25am

I'd say that's splitting hairs. A "satan" as opposed to THE "Satan". I certainly could be wrong in my theory, maybe it was one of Satan's lieutenants and not the boss himself. Again thats a distinction without a difference. Also I'm a dude.

re: #487 jwb7605

586 Racer X  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:34:33am

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.


Huh?

So if someone believes in evolution they have no morals?

587 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:34:50am

re: #576 Peacekeeper

Naughty boy.

588 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:35:10am

re: #577 formercorpsman

I hate that show. I hate MTV, won't let the kids near it.

MTV is so bad, I have it blocked & I live alone!

589 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:35:26am

re: #497 mikeymom

could someone please post a link to gazacam? mine dont seem to be working.

There you go.

590 MJ  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:35:27am

re: #569 ploome hineni

they mean Jordan

:P

The Times is really trying to legitimize the "One State Solution", which, of course, is the Final Solution as far as Israel is concerned.
This, from a newspaper whose owners started the group which tried to prevent Israel from coming into being while Jews were being gassed to death: The American Council for Judaism.

591 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:35:33am

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

Of course, you are 6 years old, right, because your question begs any hint of intelligence or the ability to critically think, which in itself, is an indication of an evolved creature, which you certainly cannot be.

592 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:35:44am

re: #513 Jetpilot1101

Ouch. I don't think tomorrow will be much better.

OT: You still up for getting the Mass. Lizards together?

Absolutely... lets get it on!

593 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:36:01am

re: #540 ploome hineni

good parental control here

Not sure if that is praise or contempt.

594 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:36:09am
595 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:36:10am

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

Do we play with him or have lunch?

596 jorline  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:36:33am

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

You masked yourself since April 08 to post that?

Well earned down ding.

597 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:37:01am

re: #582 Desert Dog

He's on the menu at Gaza Fried Chicken already.....extra crispy

Cooked in The Mullah's secret recipe of herbs & spices

598 Opinionated  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:37:02am

re: #395 Kenneth

The problem is Lebanon cannot control it's territory.

Then as an act of self defense, Israel should "help" them get it under control.

In no way, should Israel be a sitting target to rocket fire because the Lebanese can't or won't control their territory.

599 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:37:04am

re: #595 Walter L. Newton

Do we play with him or have lunch?

Depends - what's for lunch? Cause if it's just a PB&J, then yeah, kicking this guy a round might be fun.

600 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:37:10am

re: #535 ggt

Aurora --cornfields to the left of me, Dick Daley to the right.

My in-laws are from Montgomery and we just had a great wedding reception in the Paramount. The big front room with the double staircase? Got some great pics of the family all dressed up.

601 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:37:19am

re: #551 jorline

Good afternoon, {gak}.

Hey {jorline}!

602 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:37:21am

re: #562 rondeldon

Please, expound.

I have no doubt we are on the cusp of a magnificent biologic dissertation.

603 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:37:34am

Jetpilot, my nic is blue, e-mail me some contact info, and we can get started. I have loppy's contact info, we can get the others as the day goes on...

604 Texas Heathen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:38:00am

re: #532 gymmom

I have xm radio in my care and can see the titles of the songs. I have been censoring songs for years. My child isn't going to hear the song "Promiscuous", now she's 11 and doesn't hear "I kissed a girl". I have a 14 yr old too, both girls. They have friends (in their catholic school) who watched Tila Tequila!

That has to be among the most morally bankrupt shows on tv. Followed closely by Girls of the PB Mansion.
*shakes head* I was shocked when I first heard the premise of that show.

605 DeafDog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:38:05am

re: #483 spirochete

citibank down 21%

Robert Reuben's star has fallen

606 Desert Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:38:33am

re: #602 formercorpsman

Please, expound.

I have no doubt we are on the cusp of a magnificent biologic dissertation.

And we all know how painful that can be!

607 Daisy  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:38:39am

Technically, having 'marital' sex with children is not 'molestation', it's rape. Mainly, it's old men 'marrying' these very young girls.'

Glad to hear someone or other in Saudi Arabia is even mentioning aloud not marrying until the age of 25. I wonder how long it will take for a death fatwah to be issued against such blasphemers?

608 Prince of Dorkness  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:38:42am

re: #583 MandyManners

I'll struggle with this for a while so don't laugh when I don't get it quite right.

609 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:38:59am

re: #581 Iron Fist

He's just following his Pedophile Prophet to the logical conclusion that Islam supports pedophillia. If the Big Mo did it, it's okay, whether its butchering Jews or banging babies. Or any of a number of lovely things associated with the most successful gangster in history.

Knowing this, when I hear a Muslim say that "Mohammed (PBUH*) was the most perfect man that ever lived", I have a hard time restraining myself.
*Pork and Bacon Upon Him

610 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:39:15am

re: #582 Desert Dog

He's on the menu at Gaza Fried Chicken already.....extra crispy

That figures!

Gaza Fried Rooster for he hamasthugs - to feed a few.
Rooster-Soup would feed many women and children ..

611 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:39:16am

re: #604 Texas Heathen

That has to be among the most morally bankrupt shows on tv. Followed closely by Girls of the PB Mansion.
*shakes head* I was shocked when I first heard the premise of that show.

The new series is even worse. It involves sisters.

612 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:39:21am
613 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:39:28am

re: #591 Walter L. Newton

Of course, you are 6 years old, right, because your question begs any hint of intelligence or the ability to critically think, which in itself, is an indication of an evolved creature, which you certainly cannot be.

No, Walter, he is the 40 y/o who thinks it's evolutionary
appropriate to have intercourse with the 6 y/o.

614 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:39:40am

re: #539 Alouette

What life was like for Jews in the "One State Solution"

I think a Jewish State would be fine.
very interesting link.

615 LGoPs  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:39:41am

re: #568 ggt

I get the feeling that a female is considered a "women" when she starts menstrating. IIRC, some ethnic groups start puberty earlier than others, and "health" plays a part. I don't think marriages are consumated until menstration starts.

Remember this is a medieval culture. Marriage is about "protecting" the girls--getting them out of their fathers household --where they have no valule and into their husband's household where they can produce babies. Females are a resource, not people. It's a different concept of marriage from what we believe all together.

And of course remember that no culture can be judged better than any other culture. Which is no doubt why NOW is so happy for them....
/Major League Sarc

616 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:40:21am

re: #554 Alouette

He is a mega-moonbat, mmkay.

He made it to O-5, bet he was a joy to work with.

617 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:40:23am

re: #582 Desert Dog

He's on the menu at Gaza Fried Chicken already.....extra crispy


It wouldn't surprise me. I can't believe he held on this long.

618 Ben Hur  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:40:23am

re: #505 jwb7605

who?

Him.

619 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:40:25am

re: #605 DeafDog

Robert Reuben's star has fallen

Paul Reuben ain't so hot (still) either.

620 Texas Heathen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:40:27am

re: #538 Racer X

Don't fear the Rooster.

Isn't there a song They come to kill the Rooster?

621 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:40:44am

re: #584 ploome hineni

which I find shocking

what a thing for a 'father' to say

?
Whatever.
Not being a perfect parent has always been one of my weaknesses.

622 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:40:52am

re: #612 buzzsawmonkey

The Peanut Butter Mansion? Is that located on the Big Rock Candy Mountain?

Do you mean where the little streams of alcohol come tricklin' down the rocks?

623 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:41:02am

re: #588 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I'm tellin you Beer, I am in no way a prude, have done quite a few things I would never comment on, but that channel has slid a long, long way from the days of me watching video's of Meatloaf's movie Roadie there.

624 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:41:05am

re: #605 DeafDog

Robert Reuben's star has fallen

Citibank is down 21 percent. And the government gave them 35 billion. Boy, all this bailout money is sure helping, I don't know who, but it's got to be helping someone.

Would 3 Wood like to jump in on this discussion?

625 gop_patriot  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:41:11am

serious action on the Gaza Cam, far away though.

God be with the IDF

626 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:41:19am
627 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:41:39am

re: #595 Walter L. Newton

Do we play with him or have lunch?

Well - I'll be having dinner ...

Give him a bit of rope - we'll need something for afters.

628 opnion  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:41:57am

re: #581 Iron Fist

He's just following his Pedophile Prophet to the logical conclusion that Islam supports pedophillia. If the Big Mo did it, it's okay, whether its butchering Jews or banging babies. Or any of a number of lovely things associated with the most successful gangster in history.

That's it, tghats why Muslim clerics defend pedophelia with young females. The Prophet married Ayisha when she was 6 & dud her whwn she was 9. As Mohammod is considered the "Perfect" man, they must defend the practice.

629 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:00am
630 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:03am

re: #595 Walter L. Newton

Do we play with him or have lunch?

2 comments since May, negative karma . . . .hmmmm, I don't think he'll play nice . . .

631 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:10am

re: #620 Texas Heathen

Isn't there a song They come to kill the Rooster?



Stone Temple Pilots - Rooster

632 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:13am

re: #564 WriterMom

Linky, please.

Here ya go

633 godfrey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:20am

re: #622 Guanxi88

No tricklin' for me, thanks, but there's no Big Neat Candy Mountain.

634 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:26am
635 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:30am

Multiculturalism and diversity are just grand, until you have to deal with pedophilia and cannibalism (ritual or otherwise). Then it gets sticky.

636 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:41am

re: #535 ggt

Aurora --cornfields to the left of me, Dick Daley to the right.

more of a Naperville suburb?

637 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:47am

The Prisoner's Patrick McGoohan dies aged 80

He died yesterday after a short illness, his son-in-law film producer Cleve Landsberg said.

McGoohan played the title character Number Six in the surreal 1960s show filmed in Portmeirion in Wales.

Youtube Video

/so long Number Six

638 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:50am

re: #618 Ben Hur

Him.

Thanks! I was afraid you meant her!

639 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:53am

MLRS firing going on at Fort Stewart today. Never known them to fire from the Eastern firing pads before. Taken with video from Gaza, all seems to fit fairly well. ;-)>

640 bulwrk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:54am

re: #613 notutopia

I got the impression he is a creationist who thinks if you believe in evolution than you should not have a problem with prepubescent sex.

641 Cathypop  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:42:55am

re: #591 Walter L. Newton

Of course, you are 6 years old, right, because your question begs any hint of intelligence or the ability to critically think, which in itself, is an indication of an evolved creature, which you certainly cannot be.

Good one Walter.

642 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:43:00am

re: #562 rondeldon

Nice knowing ya.

643 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:43:17am

re: #600 Spenser (with an S)

My in-laws are from Montgomery and we just had a great wedding reception in the Paramount. The big front room with the double staircase? Got some great pics of the family all dressed up.

The Paramount is very cool! It was the first theatre of it's kind. They spent a gob of money redoing it a few years ago.

644 lobo91  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:43:24am

re: #616 lifeofthemind

He made it to O-5, bet he was a joy to work with.

These days, he main requirements for making O-5 in the Army are completing the required level of military education (50% completion of Command & General Staff College or equivalent), having the required time in service and time in grade as a major, and not having your most recent OER being a "relief for cause."

A pulse is desireable, but not required.

645 Desert Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:43:42am

re: #605 DeafDog

Robert Reuben's star has fallen

But his smell lingers on and on an on......

646 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:43:49am

re: #633 godfrey

No tricklin' for me, thanks, but there's no Big Neat Candy Mountain.

Yeah, but you know, the hens lay soft-boiled eggs.

647 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:44:13am

re: #585 Prince of Dorkness

Also I'm a dude.

Of course you are, Prince!

648 godfrey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:44:24am

I'm late to the party. What justifies raping a 10-year-old in this Islamic fossil's excuse for a mind?

649 Desert Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:44:28am

re: #631 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey


Stone Temple Pilots - Rooster

Alice in Chains, not STP

650 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:44:32am

re: #620 Texas Heathen

Isn't there a song They come to kill the Rooster?


Alice in Chains.

651 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:44:42am

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

I thought this was just missing the sarc tag?!

Jazz music and Chocolate Chip Cookies are man made constructs too. I'm not ready to give up modern civilization.

652 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:44:52am

re: #632 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Here ya go

You mean that was a joke? I kept looking for the link over at Kos!
/

653 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:44:55am

re: #635 OldLineTexan

Multiculturalism and diversity are just grand, until you have to deal with pedophilia and cannibalism (ritual or otherwise). Then it gets sticky.

Or you ignore it totally like England.

654 godfrey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:44:57am

re: #646 Guanxi88

I thought the preference around here ran to the hard-boiled.

655 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:45:18am
656 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:45:19am

re: #648 godfrey
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOODFREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY

657 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:45:26am

re: #654 godfrey

I thought the preference around here ran to the hard-boiled.

No, that's how we take our fiction.

658 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:45:29am

re: #608 Prince of Dorkness

I'll struggle with this for a while so don't laugh when I don't get it quite right.

Do it a few dozen times and you'll be an old pro shortly.

659 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:45:36am

re: #634 Iron Fist

Rooster, by Alice in Chains. It's about Vietnam.

can you give a quick synopsis?

660 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:45:37am

re: #649 Desert Dog

Alice in Chains, not STP

I stand corrected. I never could get the 90s music that every one else was listening to in college. I was still blaring "Back in Black" & "1984."

661 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:45:38am

re: #655 buzzsawmonkey

You know what it is.

662 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:45:45am

re: #631 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey


Stone Temple Pilots - Rooster

Thats Alice in Chains, knucklehead

663 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:45:58am
664 godfrey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:46:01am

WRITERMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

and others, of course

665 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:46:09am

OT- Are there any Christian lizards who can help me out with a Christian response to an idiot sending me the article below on US torture? I can't say "They do worse to themselves every day" and I can't say "I wish they had done more" which are my first thoughts. He says we have now given up any moral authority in the world, yadayadayada.


The top Bush administration official in charge of deciding whether to bring Guantanamo Bay detainees to trial has concluded that the U.S. military tortured a Saudi national who allegedly planned to participate in the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, interrogating him with techniques that included sustained isolation, sleep deprivation, nudity and prolonged exposure to cold, leaving him in a "life-threatening condition."

"We tortured [Mohammed al-]Qahtani," said Susan J. Crawford, in her first interview since being named convening authority of military commissions by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates in February 2007. "His treatment met the legal definition of torture. And that's why I did not refer the case" for prosecution

.

666 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:46:13am

re: #637 Killian Bundy

The Prisoner's Patrick McGoohan dies aged 80

[Video]

/so long Number Six

Sorry to hear this

667 debutaunt  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:46:28am

re: #642 WriterMom

Nice knowing ya.

Jeez - I wonder what his only other comment was.

668 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:46:31am

re: #647 MandyManners

Of course you are, Prince!

clever nic...I may have to change mine

669 Texas Heathen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:46:35am

re: #631 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Yep that was it. I have that cd.

re: #634 Iron Fist

No it was the STP one. Nice try though.

670 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:47:00am

re: #661 WriterMom

You know what it is.

Lutherans. He's just afraid to say it out loud.

671 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:47:20am

re: #641 Cathypop

Good one Walter.

Thank you.

672 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:47:20am

re: #653 Walter L. Newton

Multiculturalism and diversity are just grand, until you have to deal with pedophilia and cannibalism (ritual or otherwise). Then it gets sticky.

Or you ignore it totally like England.

That might actually improve English cuisine.
/

673 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:47:29am

re: #663 buzzsawmonkey

That's the one.

There is no other.

674 godfrey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:47:36am

So, is it the Shining (Path) example of Mohammad that is taken to justify this kind of morally incoherent and vicious absurdity?

675 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:47:39am

Charles, I think you have a bug afoot. This thread and all the spinoffs all show the same number of up-dings. A highly unlikely scenario.

676 Ben Hur  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:47:56am

If Muslims didn't have child brides, NatGeo wouldn't have photographers.

677 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:48:11am

re: #672 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

That might actually improve English cuisine.
/

Brings a new meaning to spotted dick

678 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:48:27am

re: #660 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

As soon as Nirvana hit, I knew my time had passed.

All those runs up 95 to the Spectrum, and JFK, slamming a 6 pack down before searching the parking lot for scalps 5 minutes before a show.

679 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:48:28am

re: #677 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Brings a new meaning to spotted dick

LOL!

680 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:48:30am

re: #673 Guanxi88

There is no other.

Crap. I followed that backwards and ended up with Coors beer.

681 lifeofthemind  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:48:35am

re: #644 lobo91

How many MacKeys are we looking at here? Will the real doofus please stand up.

682 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:48:43am

re: #655 buzzsawmonkey

My question is: What is the source of the madness that drives so many in Washington--and the media, and academia--to bend their energies so singlemindedly towards insisting on a "solution" to the self-inflicted problems of the "Palestinians?"

Don't say, "oil." The "Palestinians" have no oil. If any Arab nation with oil were to say something about "Palestinians," all that Washington need do is say, "We want to buy your oil. We don't care one whit about the "Palestinians." And if you want anything from us, you will not bother mentioning them to us."

That would probably go a hell of a lot farther towards solving the problems of the Middle East than anything else, because if the Arabs learned that they could not get the West's attention by yapping about the "Palestinians" they would stop funding them.

The Arabs don't fund them - they fund 7% of the Pali income, The rest is from the USA, Europe and the UN.

This was in one of the Israeli blogs - sorry, didn't bookmark it - no linky ...

683 DeafDog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:48:47am

re: #619 OldLineTexan

Paul Reuben ain't so hot (still) either.

Is that a pee-wee herman refernce (should be Reubens) or is there a Reuben sandwich reference, or is there a new Reuben that I don't know about

684 Desert Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:49:13am

re: #653 Walter L. Newton

Or you ignore it totally like England.

Or, just let them sort it out amongst themselves in their own special courts. What possess the UK to do that? Do they think they will not get blown up if they bow down and/or bend over for that segment of their population? They have achieved just the opposite if that was the intent.

685 gymmom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:49:16am

re: #577 formercorpsman

I have blocked MTV, VH1, and the lesbian/gay channel that came with digital cable! Also anything rated tv-14 and above. They claim it blocks the Sponge Bob movie! What a rough life, they have to ask if it's blocked and know not to ask for most of it. My 6th grader taped the bachelorette the other day - it was erased before she was home from school. A school friend had recommended it. Luckily she's too busy for TV and isn't interested in much of it anyway. I hate having to explain to my sweet little thing why I have to block all these shows/music!

686 gop_patriot  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:49:23am

re: #663 buzzsawmonkey

That's the one.

There's a lake of stew and of lemonade too, you can paddle all around 'em in a big canoe.

LOL When I was little, my dad would sing that song to me. Our favorite line, that we would sing out loud together, was "Where they hung the jerk who invented work". :)

687 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:49:47am

re: #651 DaddyG
re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

I thought this was just missing the sarc tag?!

Jazz music and Chocolate Chip Cookies are man made constructs too. I'm not ready to give up modern civilization.


Thanks DaddyG . I'm still grieving and my fight meter is still pretty low on fight energy.

688 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:49:47am

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

Go fuck yourself sideways.

689 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:50:18am

re: #678 formercorpsman

As soon as Nirvana hit, I knew my time had passed.

All those runs up 95 to the Spectrum, and JFK, slamming a 6 pack down before searching the parking lot for scalps 5 minutes before a show.

I had a friend in high school (I grew up in South Jersey) whose car broke down in the parking lot of the Spectrum while at an AC/DC show. He returned to class three days later, missing his shoes, but his pockets were full of "Angus Bucks"

690 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:50:27am

re: #686 gop_patriot

There's a lake of stew and of lemonade too, you can paddle all around 'em in a big canoe.

LOL When I was little, my dad would sing that song to me. Our favorite line, that we would sing out loud together, was "Where they hung the jerk who invented work". :)

I always heard "There's a lake of stew, and whiskey, too."

But then, my upbringing was, perhaps, a little less gentle than others'.

691 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:50:49am

re: #678 formercorpsman

As soon as Nirvana hit, I knew my time had passed.

All those runs up 95 to the Spectrum, and JFK, slamming a 6 pack down before searching the parking lot for scalps 5 minutes before a show.

Nirvana was pitiful as was grunge in general...imo

692 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:50:52am

re: #630 ggt

2 comments since May, negative karma . . . .hmmmm, I don't think he'll play nice . . .

Wow. I didn't know you could achieve negative karma.

693 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:50:54am
694 x-wing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:50:56am

re: #660 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I stand corrected. I never could get the 90s music that every one else was listening to in college. I was still blaring "Back in Black" & "1984."


LOL, I'm an '80s guy myself. I thought all the '90s rock bands sounded like Pearl Jam.

/ the '90s were not good years for rock music.

695 Racer X  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:51:03am

re: #682 yma o hyd

The Arabs don't fund them - they fund 7% of the Pali income, The rest is from the USA, Europe and the UN.

This was in one of the Israeli blogs - sorry, didn't bookmark it - no linky ...

The Kaffirs support them. As it should be.

/

696 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:51:11am

re: #625 gop_patriot

serious action on the Gaza Cam, far away though.

God be with the IDF

and bucky

697 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:51:11am

re: #688 Alouette

Go fuck yourself sideways.

Momma Charles told us there'd be days like this.

698 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:51:15am

re: #688 Alouette

Go fuck yourself sideways.

Do it on the Rooster-cam, please, cause the twinkling lights are getting kinda dull.

699 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:51:23am

re: #670 jwb7605

OMG LAUGHING MAH ASS ALL THE WAY OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

700 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:51:54am

re: #688 Alouette

I think you are the sassisest frum Bubbie on the whole frikkin internet.

701 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:52:10am
702 Texas Heathen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:52:12am

re: #669 Texas Heathen

Yep that was it. I have that cd.

re: #634 Iron Fist

No it was the STP one. Nice try though.

That whole post was fouled up. The STP link was the song I was thinking of but it linked to Alice in Chains so yes the song was Rooster by Alice in Chains. thanks for the answer guys

703 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:52:27am

re: #694 x-wing

LOL, I'm an '80s guy myself. I thought all the '90s rock bands sounded like Pearl Jam.

/ the '90s were not good years for rock music.

Watching the new season of 24 & seeing Janine Garafallo again makes me wonder how we ever got out of that decade alive.

704 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:52:34am

re: #700 WriterMom

I think you are the sassisest frum Bubbie on the whole frikkin internet.

I am the Vicious Babushka!

705 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:52:56am

re: #703 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Watching the new season of 24 & seeing Janine Garafallo again makes me wonder how we ever got out of that decade alive.

We didn't. Nobody told you, huh?

706 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:52:59am

dang, they still have large buses running in Gaza.

707 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:53:20am

re: #519 Racer X

I think he was talking about the "Rainbow parties".

He never said that. That is how Cognito works - a demand for specifics without giving specifics followed by a demand for context without ceding context to the person he is lecturing. Re-read the thread. That is his act.

When lawyers and interrogators do it to witnesses it is called "badgering".

708 Desert Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:53:22am

re: #660 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I stand corrected. I never could get the 90s music that every one else was listening to in college. I was still blaring "Back in Black" & "1984."

STP, I think, is (was?) an LA band. Alice in Chains was one of the first Grunge Rock bands....Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, then Nirvana.....a nice little explosion of music from that area for a while.

709 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:53:33am

re: #685 gymmom

I still catch VH1 sometimes because I like maybe 1 or 2 of their programs like behind the music.

As far as the gay channel, my wife likes HGTV, and they are not too blatant with anything so I am ok with it.

My kids do not have an x-box, playstation, etc. They play football out in the front yard, skate, and that sort of thing.

It is a fine line, because so many things have degraded so much. Like I said, if you are an adult, have at it. Kids can only be kids for so long though.

710 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:53:45am

re: #704 Alouette

I am the Vicious Babushka!

And your website has been recommended to a friend. (Lutheran)

711 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:53:51am

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

You're a fucking moron.

712 LGoPs  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:54:05am

re: #577 formercorpsman

I hate that show. I hate MTV, won't let the kids near it.

When I lived in Saudi, one of the most popular channels was MTV. No wonder the Arabs have such a loathing of us.......I used to tell them that MTV was in no way representative of the way Americans live.
We really do a disservice to ourselves in the way the popular media portrays us........

713 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:54:06am

re: #701 buzzsawmonkey

All the more reason for the funding to be withdrawn. The Arabs can fund their own, or not--their choice.

Yep - which would also mean less money for all those hideous mega-mosques they build all over the world!

714 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:54:09am

re: #667 debutaunt

Jeez - I wonder what his only other comment was.

I don't know why, but that made me LOL. Thanks

715 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:54:09am

re: #693 Iron Fist

I can't get to you tube at work, or I'd give you a link there. It's a pretty decent song. IIRC, it's about the dude's dad, who was a Vietnam Vet.

cool thanks....was too lazy to do it...I've heard the song

716 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:54:15am

re: #675 Shr_Nfr

The first load does not. After the first load, when anybody posts to the thread, it sets them at the thread up-ding number.

717 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:54:18am

re: #706 Outrider

dang, they still have large buses running in Gaza.

Ray Nagin has been resupplying them.

718 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:54:28am

re: #689 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

sweet.

719 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:54:30am

re: #682 yma o hyd

The Arabs don't fund them - they fund 7% of the Pali income, The rest is from the USA, Europe and the UN.

This was in one of the Israeli blogs - sorry, didn't bookmark it - no linky ...

They get the West to pay jizzya to the Palestinians, because no Arab (or Moslem) state wants the "Palestinians" to move there. Get the West to keep them in camps, and use them as a way to deflect criticism of the corrupt leaders of Arab states.

720 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:54:32am

re: #711 MandyManners

You're a fucking moron.

Elegant in its subtle understatement.

721 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:54:33am

re: #683 DeafDog

Is that a pee-wee herman refernce (should be Reubens) or is there a Reuben sandwich reference, or is there a new Reuben that I don't know about

Reubens, whatever. Guy with a trenchcoat and naughty hands. Picky, picky, picky.

/

722 gop_patriot  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:55:14am

re: #690 Guanxi88

I always heard "There's a lake of stew, and whiskey, too."

But then, my upbringing was, perhaps, a little less gentle than others'.

No, that is probably what it says. :) Lemonade is mentioned somewhere in the song though... I need to bring out the O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack and listen again. lol My dad's version might have been different though, he was singing from memory a song he heard years before.

723 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:55:14am

re: #689 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

What part of SJ?

724 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:55:42am

re: #707 karmic_inquisitor

He never said that. That is how Cognito works - a demand for specifics without giving specifics followed by a demand for context without ceding context to the person he is lecturing. Re-read the thread. That is his act.

When lawyers and interrogators do it to witnesses it is called "badgering".

Cognito is much smarter than most of us understand, and certainly more intelligent than he ought to be.

That's why I like him!

725 WriterMom  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:55:46am

re: #711 MandyManners

Mandy Mandy Mandy-as always, concise and to the point.

726 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:55:48am
727 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:55:51am

re: #691 albusteve

I never got it.

728 Kragar  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:55:54am

re: #708 Desert Dog

STP, I think, is (was?) an LA band. Alice in Chains was one of the first Grunge Rock bands....Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, then Nirvana.....a nice little explosion of music from that area for a while.

Seattle Bands.

729 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:56:10am

re: #723 formercorpsman

What part of SJ?

Gloucester County

730 LGoPs  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:56:17am

re: #711 MandyManners

You're a fucking moron.

Exquisitely nuanced and descriptive.....
:)

731 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:56:24am
732 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:56:27am

re: #717 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Ray Nagin has been resupplying them.

heh. thought all his got ruined because he abandoned them in the floods. Guess he found a way to get rid of them and beat the insurance hikes? lol

733 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:56:30am

re: #722 gop_patriot

No, that is probably what it says. :) Lemonade is mentioned somewhere in the song though... I need to bring out the O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack and listen again. lol My dad's version might have been different though, he was singing from memory a song he heard years before.

Grew up in Appalachia. Rough, rough, place.

734 DeafDog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:56:30am

re: #655 buzzsawmonkey

My question is: What is the source of the madness that drives so many in Washington--and the media, and academia--to bend their energies so singlemindedly towards insisting on a "solution" to the self-inflicted problems of the "Palestinians?"

Don't shoot the messenger, but the honest answer, IMO, in a word is Israel.

The longer answer is more complicated, but certainly the creation of Israel is a part of it. Also part of the longer answer is the sad truth that "Arabia" is blessed with gobs of cheap oil, but are unfortunately cursed with an 11th or 12th century mindset. No enlightenment in their history.

735 subsailor68  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:56:41am

re: #711 MandyManners

You're a fucking moron.

Well put. I don't quite get his point anyway. I mean, what's the "if we" all about? Assuming he's right, and we are evolved animals, it would explain why a) we stopped licking our own butts, and b) developed a set of morals.

Not sure in what order though.

:-)

736 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:57:06am

re: #687 notutopia

Thanks DaddyG . I'm still grieving and my fight meter is still pretty low on fight energy.

Welcome - it is a fight isn't it.

I have four daughters and three sons who range from 9 to 19. It is constant vigilence, constant discussions, constant teaching and constant listening that has kept us in tact and morally straight.

They tend to be very open with us. A good sense of humor and resisting the temptation to freak out when they aren't perfect helps. I think they sometimes enjoy sharing the latest pop culture perversion just to see my eyes get wide and my jaw drop.

I have to credit the kids for making some great judgements and choosing to hang with good crowds.

737 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:57:07am
738 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:57:24am

re: #731 buzzsawmonkey

I have no idea what a "Rainbow Party" is, and am thankfully unfamiliar with most of the TV shows mentioned above. But I have to say that the discussion of TV makes me less interested in considering cable, and less concerned that I have not gotten my converter box coupons.

Buzz, you dont want to know, unless you have young daughters. then, you DO want to know.

739 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:57:26am

re: #733 Guanxi88

Grew up in Appalachia. Rough, rough, place.


Tougher than New Orleans?

740 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:57:42am

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

To everyone who insulted the author of this post, what is the marriageable age for girls/women, and why?

Just curious.

741 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:01am

re: #724 Walter L. Newton

Cognito is much smarter than most of us understand, and certainly more intelligent than he ought to be.

That's why I like him!

Yeah, [deleted]. I end up defending his viewpoints less infrequently than I would like. You guys do that on purpose, don't you? [deleted]. Friends. [deleted].

742 godfrey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:02am

"Rainbow party." Doesn't that involve fancy mixed drinks and careful pouring?

743 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:04am

re: #722 gop_patriot

No, that is probably what it says. :) Lemonade is mentioned somewhere in the song though... I need to bring out the O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack and listen again. lol My dad's version might have been different though, he was singing from memory a song he heard years before.

Big Rock Candy Mountain

One evening as the sun went down and the jungle fire was burning
Down the track came a hobo hiking and he said boys I'm not turning
I'm headin for a land that's far away beside the crystal fountains
So come with me we'll go and see the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains there's a land that's fair and bright
Where the handouts grow on bushes and you sleep out every night
Where the boxcars are all empty and the sun shines every day
On the birds and the bees and the cigarette trees
Where the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains all the cops have wooden legs
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth and the hens lay soft boiled eggs
The farmer's trees are full of fruit and the barns are full of hay
Oh, I'm bound to go where there ain't no snow
Where the rain don't fall and the wind don't blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains you never change your socks
And the little streams of alcohol come a-trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats and the railroad bulls are blind
There's a lake of stew and of whiskey too
You can paddle all around 'em in a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains the jails are made of tin
And you can walk right out again as soon as you are in
There ain't no short handled shovels, no axes saws or picks
I'm a goin to stay where you sleep all day
Where they hung the jerk that invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

I'll see you all this coming fall in the Big Rock Candy Mountains

744 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:21am

re: #635 OldLineTexan

Multiculturalism and diversity are just grand, until you have to deal with pedophilia and cannibalism (ritual or otherwise). Then it gets sticky.

Stoning,
Drawing and Quartering
chopping off hands (unless you're a giant bunny)
honor killing (patricide, matricide, fratricide)
and the everpopular self-imolation

745 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:24am
746 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:26am

re: #740 mrseener

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

To everyone who insulted the author of this post, what is the marriageable age for girls/women, and why?

Just curious.

You cannot be serious.

747 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:33am

re: #712 LGoPs

What were you doing in the Kingdom?

748 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:38am
749 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:46am
750 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:52am

re: #742 godfrey

"Rainbow party." Doesn't that involve fancy mixed drinks and careful pouring?



Not so much anymore.

751 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:53am

re: #729 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Franklinville Roller Rink, heh.

752 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:55am

re: #719 Kosh's Shadow

They get the West to pay jizzya to the Palestinians, because no Arab (or Moslem) state wants the "Palestinians" to move there. Get the West to keep them in camps, and use them as a way to deflect criticism of the corrupt leaders of Arab states.

Yep - why change something which has worked for 60 years ...

753 3 wood  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:55am

OT:

The market is taking it on the chin today again. Dow down 2.47%, NASDAQ and S&P down 2.7%

Of the 3041 issues traded today only 235 or 7.7% have gained so far on the day.

Gold futures are down, and bond yields are down.

It's going to be ugly for a while.

754 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:58:55am

re: #711 MandyManners

You're a fucking moron.

Forgot my link.

755 Texas Heathen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:59:00am

re: #711 MandyManners

You're a fucking moron.

That's what I like about you Mandy. You never pull a punch.

756 godfrey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:59:02am

Rondeldon

Before you get on a high horse and sniff at the abuse you're justly getting, you should know that there are people here who are *both* evolutionists and religious believers with robust moral systems.

Weird as that might seem to you.

757 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:59:05am

re: #727 formercorpsman

I never got it.

musically there is nothing to get...it's all marketing to the disgruntled masses of droolers...

758 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:59:27am
759 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:59:28am

re: #685 gymmom

I have blocked MTV, VH1, and the lesbian/gay channel that came with digital cable!

MTV & VH1 used to show music videos. Now MTV and VH1 are some of the raunchiest programs on basic cable airwaves.

760 Desert Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:59:48am

re: #712 LGoPs

When I lived in Saudi, one of the most popular channels was MTV. No wonder the Arabs have such a loathing of us.......I used to tell them that MTV was in no way representative of the way Americans live.
We really do a disservice to ourselves in the way the popular media portrays us........

I am sure the guys spewing forth the bile from the music and movie industry are very concerned about that, as they have their chauffeur drive the Rolls down to the bank to deposit another load of gold bars.

My wife grew up in the Philippines. When she first got her, she told me the first thing she discovered was "this place is nothing like the movies or TV". The sad thing is, the purveyors of the music videos and such know that they are sending out a very negative message about the very place that is making them so filthy rich. And, to top it off, I am sure they all sleep well at night in their mansions too.

761 debutaunt  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 11:59:49am

re: #711 MandyManners

You're a fucking moron.

It kind of sounds like a Woody Allen monologue.

762 bulwrk  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:00:01pm

re: #722 gop_patriot

Big Rock Candy MountainYour text to link...

763 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:00:10pm

re: #749 Iron Fist


I knew it. I knew I was not the only one.

Every night in bed, my wife has it on.

I just sleep.

764 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:00:15pm

re: #740 mrseener

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

To everyone who insulted the author of this post, what is the marriageable age for girls/women, and why?

Just curious.

In my case, 53, but my wife would need to pass away first.
I'm hoping I can say 93 someday.
Let me amend that. I'm hoping she can say 93 someday.

765 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:00:15pm

re: #717 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Ray Nagin has been resupplying them.

You need to run over them with a Sham-Wow first, though. Look at how it just picks up all that flood moisture. Wring it out in the Dead Sea. No problem, no mess. Order now, and we'll send you disgraced New Orleans Mayor Ray "Yellow Submarine" Nagin as a bonus. You just pay shipping and handling.

766 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:01:02pm

re: #741 jwb7605

Yeah, [deleted]. I end up defending his viewpoints less infrequently than I would like. You guys do that on purpose, don't you? [deleted]. Friends. [deleted].

Of course, you did see my comment as a purposely confusing compliment, didn't you? Meant as sarcasm, right? Because I barely can stand Cognito, and he knows it, so I don't feel like I'm talking behind his back.

767 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:01:09pm

re: #761 debutaunt

It kind of sounds like a Woody Allen monologue.

She's our very own David Mamet!

768 Desert Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:01:12pm

re: #728 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Seattle Bands.

yep, forgot to insert Seattle in that sentence

769 notutopia  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:01:22pm

re: #740 mrseener

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

To everyone who insulted the author of this post, what is the marriageable age for girls/women, and why?
mrseener. If YOU are curious, do what we do...research your question. When you have facts, come back and post them. Then we'll discuss them.

Just curious.

770 LGoPs  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:01:36pm

re: #747 formercorpsman

What were you doing in the Kingdom?

Working as a contractor. Spent 5 years there back in the 90's. What a crazy place. Truly medieval, but with the trappings of modernity, i.e. cars, guns, planes......

771 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:02:01pm

re: #770 LGoPs

Working as a contractor. Spent 5 years there back in the 90's. What a crazy place. Truly medieval, but with the trappings of modernity, i.e. cars, guns, planes......

Kinda like Chicago...

772 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:02:01pm

re: #745 buzzsawmonkey

As a student of societal depravity, I'm dying to find out--even though I have no practical need for the knowledge.

nobody is sayin....I'm curious too..what's the big deal?

773 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:02:12pm

re: #743 Outrider

Big Rock Candy Mountain

One evening as the sun went down and the jungle fire was burning
Down the track came a hobo hiking and he said boys I'm not turning
I'm headin for a land that's far away beside the crystal fountains
So come with me we'll go and see the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains there's a land that's fair and bright
Where the handouts grow on bushes and you sleep out every night
Where the boxcars are all empty and the sun shines every day
On the birds and the bees and the cigarette trees
Where the lemonade springs where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains all the cops have wooden legs
And the bulldogs all have rubber teeth and the hens lay soft boiled eggs
The farmer's trees are full of fruit and the barns are full of hay
Oh, I'm bound to go where there ain't no snow
Where the rain don't fall and the wind don't blow
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains you never change your socks
And the little streams of alcohol come a-trickling down the rocks
The brakemen have to tip their hats and the railroad bulls are blind
There's a lake of stew and of whiskey too
You can paddle all around 'em in a big canoe
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

In the Big Rock Candy Mountains the jails are made of tin
And you can walk right out again as soon as you are in
There ain't no short handled shovels, no axes saws or picks
I'm a goin to stay where you sleep all day
Where they hung the jerk that invented work
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains

I'll see you all this coming fall in the Big Rock Candy Mountains

So, is that going to be the new National Anthem, what with Barry O coming in? Or did somebody just put his agenda to music?

774 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:02:42pm

re: #744 Eowyn2

Stoning,
Drawing and Quartering
chopping off hands (unless you're a giant bunny)
honor killing (patricide, matricide, fratricide)
and the everpopular self-imolation

That I'm OK with for many, as long as they don't violate the local fire code.

Now MAKING the dead guy's wife jump in the fire...not nice.

775 Desert Dog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:02:47pm

re: #765 OldLineTexan

You need to run over them with a Sham-Wow first, though. Look at how it just picks up all that flood moisture. Wring it out in the Dead Sea. No problem, no mess. Order now, and we'll send you disgraced New Orleans Mayor Ray "Yellow Submarine" Nagin as a bonus. You just pay shipping and handling.

But you have to order now, we can't make this offer all day, ya know!

776 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:02:50pm

746 CapeCoddah

You cannot be serious.

I am serious. Why not? How do we decide what is too young?

777 gop_patriot  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:02:53pm

re: #733 Guanxi88

Grew up in Appalachia. Rough, rough, place.

I'll say! I grew up in Memphis. My Dad's family were farmers from Mississippi, but his father worked in a factory in North Memphis. Dad went to school with Elvis. lol One year behind him at Humes. Almost everyone from his neighborhood, which was rough, became pretty successful. They knew how to work hard, and that they didn't want to work in the factories like their fathers!

778 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:03:17pm

re: #766 Walter L. Newton

Of course, you did see my comment as a purposely confusing compliment, didn't you? Meant as sarcasm, right? Because I barely can stand Cognito, and he knows it, so I don't feel like I'm talking behind his back.

I stand by my statement, and updinged you.
Sarcasm? Did I make you look? [deleted!]

779 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:03:32pm

re: #685 gymmom

I have blocked MTV, VH1, and the lesbian/gay channel that came with digital cable! Also anything rated tv-14 and above. They claim it blocks the Sponge Bob movie! What a rough life, they have to ask if it's blocked and know not to ask for most of it. My 6th grader taped the bachelorette the other day - it was erased before she was home from school. A school friend had recommended it. Luckily she's too busy for TV and isn't interested in much of it anyway. I hate having to explain to my sweet little thing why I have to block all these shows/music!

do what I did. get rid of cable/satellite. Tell them that you can't afford it. My poor deprived children grew up without cable. They still speak to me:)

780 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:03:42pm

re: #478 Outrider

900 Gazans? 400+ women and children? We have only their word for it. And some Norwegian doctors word. ;-)>

Could be a rerun of Jenin ...

781 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:03:46pm

There is some good stuff on TV. Like last night, I saw how a true Samurai sword is made, and that if you work at it, you can make a good one from regular steel.
Another night, I saw how huge coal trains work.
And of course, I got to see a cement truck blown up.

Stick to Discovery, History, Science, National Geographic, History International, and the Military channel.
Plus SciFi for Battlestar Galactica and Sanctuary.
BSG returns this week!

782 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:03:56pm

re: #776 mrseener

746 CapeCoddah

I am serious. Why not? How do we decide what is too young?

Sounds like an argument a pedophile would make.

783 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:03:58pm

re: #773 Guanxi88

So, is that going to be the new National Anthem, what with Barry O coming in? Or did somebody just put his agenda to music?

I seriously doubt if the Chosen One ever heard this song, even knows what Bluegrass is, or has ever been in a position where he can empathize with these lyrics.

784 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:04:00pm

re: #740 mrseener

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

To everyone who insulted the author of this post, what is the marriageable age for girls/women, and why?

Just curious.

Do you have children?

785 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:04:12pm

re: #770 LGoPs

I had some very enticing job offers there after the Navy. (monetarily)

Never did it.

786 yma o hyd  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:04:19pm

Have a quick look at Israellycool's blog
He's laying into AP, its a joy to behold!

787 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:04:50pm

Gotta run. Y'all have fun!

788 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:05:34pm

re: #784 Oh no...Sand People!

Do you have children?

Dearlore, I hope not, nor should it, ever!

789 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:05:55pm

re: #788 CapeCoddah

Dearlore, I hope not, nor should it, ever!

PIMF>Dear lord...

790 formercorpsman  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:06:02pm

re: #776 mrseener

I'm just a bill, yes I'm only a bill, and I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill..

791 Prince of Dorkness  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:06:06pm

re: #735 subsailor68

Well put. I don't quite get his point anyway. I mean, what's the "if we" all about? Assuming he's right, and we are evolved animals, it would explain why a) we stopped licking our own butts, and b) developed a set of morals.

Not sure in what order though.

:-)

re: #711 MandyManners
You're a fucking moron.

Lizardish eloquence at it's best!

;-)

792 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:06:08pm
793 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:06:16pm

Marriageable age depends on the maturity of the child and their ability to hold their own in the world, raise (not just birth) healthy children, complete their education, hold a productive job (if they choose to work outside the home or not), etc... but with few exceptions certainly sometime after they are no longer a minor (18 yrs)

794 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:06:34pm

re: #724 Walter L. Newton

Cognito is much smarter than most of us understand, and certainly more intelligent than he ought to be.

That's why I like him!

Cognito is a hypocrite who doesn't realize he is and refuses any introspection on the matter - like any "good journalist" these days.

Cog started by telling someone he was spreading an untruth and should provide links (the Cognito "demand for specificity," which is usually how these badgering sessions start). It should be noted that Cognito failed the specificity test himself by not pointing out which assertion represented an untruth.

Others provided specifics in support of the different assertions made.

Cognito then tells Mandy that we should all be adults and look at the context and decide from there (the Cognito "demand for context"). It should be noted in the very same paragraph Cognito defends himself over a prior thread where he throws out the context and counter asserts that his postion was mischaracterized (without providing any specifics to back up his counter assertion.)

Making this all the more delicious in terms of irony, one can re-read to post that Cognito attacked and realize that it was an appeal for context!

Cognito, intelligent or not, is either a cad or is not self aware. And that is not an exclusive "or" by the way.

795 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:07:17pm
796 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:07:19pm
797 DaddyG  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:07:53pm

re: #776 mrseener

746 CapeCoddah


I am serious. Why not? How do we decide what is too young?

Because we are not a bass-ackwards 8th century poor excuse for a civilization.

798 LGoPs  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:08:37pm

re: #760 Desert Dog

I am sure the guys spewing forth the bile from the music and movie industry are very concerned about that, as they have their chauffeur drive the Rolls down to the bank to deposit another load of gold bars.

My wife grew up in the Philippines. When she first got her, she told me the first thing she discovered was "this place is nothing like the movies or TV". The sad thing is, the purveyors of the music videos and such know that they are sending out a very negative message about the very place that is making them so filthy rich. And, to top it off, I am sure they all sleep well at night in their mansions too.

I did observe that the way the media culture portrays us - all sex, drugs and rock and roll - is particularly problematic in such a medieval and repressed culture. The sex drive is one of the strongest, if not the strongest urges in human nature. The male culture is extremely suppressed (not to mention the female - which is neanderthalic in its repression), what with no contact with females except in arranged marriages. The threat that the West poses, with this badly skewed portrayal, is very threatening to the very bedrock of their natures.
I don't excuse their conduct in the slightest but do offer this observation as a way of describing the impact our culture has on them.

799 Buck  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:08:53pm

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

Of course, I could list a few reasons why were are different than animals...and what damage babies having babies does to society...

BUT, I probably should sum it up with a simple concept.... CONSENT.

Unlike animals, sex without consent is RAPE, and RAPE damages humans. Free thinking, self aware humans. Humans who can contribute to society, and will if they are not damaged.

So in order for our society to continue to grow and develop we protect our young, FROM RAPE.

We know that 10 year olds cannot CONSENT to sex, or marriage for that matter.

So we pick a good average age and hope that we have brought them to the point where they can make a good decision about sex and marriage. I know it was not old enough for me, and I screwed up my life by marrying way to young (20). However we know that 18 is better than 16, and 16 is much better than 10.

800 LGoPs  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:09:07pm

re: #771 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Kinda like Chicago...

LOl.... I hear ya....grew up in Chicago......

801 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:09:08pm

re: #742 godfrey

"Rainbow party." Doesn't that involve fancy mixed drinks and careful pouring?

Is it a gay thing or a Jessie Jackson thing?/

802 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:09:33pm
803 Texas Heathen  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:09:49pm

re: #772 albusteve

nobody is sayin....I'm curious too..what's the big deal?

Ok. You asked for it. Linky

804 NY Nana  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:09:51pm

re: #794 karmic_inquisitor

Does your American Honco Party take new registrants?

805 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:10:02pm

re: #740 mrseener

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

To everyone who insulted the author of this post, what is the marriageable age for girls/women, and why?

Just curious.

Depends on the state you live in but most states in the US require 18 without parental consent. 16 with parental consent. there is a huge difference in the west between a young woman of 16 and a child of 10. In a closed society, where women are no more than chattel, between a 10 yr old female and a 50 yr old female. In an islamic society, once a child is 8 yrs old, they leave their mother's care to whatever degree the father insists on. No recourse for the mothers. Its one of the reasons I love watching the msm go nuts about the 'mothers' of homicide bombers; chances are that most of the young men haven't been near their mothers in years.

806 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:10:16pm

re: #776 mrseener

746 CapeCoddah

I am serious. Why not? How do we decide what is too young?

Make your point, stop beating around the bush. Nobody likes being led to a point with seeminly innocuous questions. You have a point to make, and its obvious. Make it.

This is not the place to discuss the shortcomings of a belief in godless evolution, and I know that is your point, and that other dude's that you were defending, his/her point as well. Both points made using obfuscatory and sarcastic tactics. You will not make any headway at LGF with that, you will not have or get a discussion, and will only leave with more downdings than Gordon.

807 Kenneth  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:10:27pm

re: #655 buzzsawmonkey

My question is: What is the source of the madness that drives so many in Washington--and the media, and academia--to bend their energies so singlemindedly towards insisting on a "solution" to the self-inflicted problems of the "Palestinians?"

I'll take a wild guess:

Jew hatred? Racism? Marxism? Moral relativism?

All of the above.

808 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:10:36pm

how can one 'play' with a 'troll' when they are flamed away by the very first reply?....things have changed round here....let them speak, what harm does it do?...everyone has a point of view no matter how wacky....used to be that they were debated until cornered not instantly runoff...that was the fun of it....stretch it out a little at least...jus sayin

809 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:10:58pm
810 CapeCoddah  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:11:03pm

re: #806 Taqiyyotomist

Make your point, stop beating around the bush. Nobody likes being led to a point with seeminly innocuous questions. You have a point to make, and its obvious. Make it.

This is not the place to discuss the shortcomings of a belief in godless evolution, and I know that is your point, and that other dude's that you were defending, his/her point as well. Both points made using obfuscatory and sarcastic tactics. You will not make any headway at LGF with that, you will not have or get a discussion, and will only leave with more downdings than Gordon.

I think a GAZE for both would be in order.

811 Eowyn2  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:11:53pm

re: #776 mrseener

746 CapeCoddah


I am serious. Why not? How do we decide what is too young?

you dont marry someone whom you would give a barbie to for their birthday.

812 LGoPs  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:12:10pm

re: #785 formercorpsman

I had some very enticing job offers there after the Navy. (monetarily)

Never did it.

They are enticing, I know. Only reason to go there....certainly not for the culture.....
:)

813 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:12:39pm

re: #793 DaddyG

Marriageable age depends on the maturity of the child and their ability to hold their own in the world, raise (not just birth) healthy children, complete their education, hold a productive job (if they choose to work outside the home or not), etc... but with few exceptions certainly sometime after they are no longer a minor (18 yrs)

Arguably, I would not exist if my grandmother had not married my grandfather at 15.

Please do not see this as an argument in favor of child marriage. I have four daughters. The oldest was married at 22, and I am hoping the other three will hold off until after they complete a college-level education of some type. However, we must remain cognizant of the fact that even our society is NOT what it was, even less than 100 years ago, and her father viewed her marriage as completely appropriate.

814 jwb7605  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:12:50pm

re: #797 DaddyG

Because we are not a bass-ackwards 8th century poor excuse for a civilization.

We're certainly trying, though. I read an article this morning indicated that the minimum age for having sex with a student is still 18 ...

815 Daisy  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:13:04pm

re: #648 godfrey

I'm late to the party. What justifies raping a 10-year-old in this Islamic fossil's excuse for a mind?

Mohammad repeatedly raped 9 year old Ayesha (amongst others). He was perfect, therefore, if one rapes children, one is striving towards that same perfection. That, plus females tend to be much more compliant when raped as children. It's a win win situation for Islamists. But you already know that.

Leaving for work .. where I help people recover from these, and other - lesser - kinds of atrocities. It's a hard recovery process - and almost impossible when socially endorsed/justified.

816 VioletTiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:13:06pm

re: #740 mrseener
Are you joking? I think the author of that post insulted us. Believing in evolution has no connection to pedophilia. We are not animals, regardless of how we evolved. (exceptions taken for pedophiles and terrorists--they stopped at the pond scum stage).

People old enough to enter into marriage are old enough to understand it and choose it. That excludes anybody still young enough to believe in Santa Claus.

817 Spider Mensch  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:13:35pm

re: #776 mrseener

746 CapeCoddah


I am serious. Why not? How do we decide what is too young?

when you come to pick up my under 18 y.o. child, that cracking sound you hear just before you lose permanent conciousness will be my baseball bat upside your formerly thick skull...that pretty much will decide it! are we clear? good!

818 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:13:41pm

782 CapeCoddah


I am serious. Why not? How do we decide what is too young?

Sounds like an argument a pedophile would make.

It's a question, not an argument.

784 Oh no...Sand People!

Do you have children?

I, in fact, happen to have a 10 year old daughter, two other daughters ages 8 and 5 and a 6 year old son.

I'm not sure why some of you seem to think I'm saying/implying 10 years old is old enough. I'm not, and I don't think rondeldon was saying that either. But it's a discussion I've had with several people. How/who/what decides when is the appropriate for sex/marriage/children? In "Western" society, it's becoming acceptable for 18 year olds to have sex no problem, but that's creeping downwards. Hardly anyone bats an eye anymore about 17 or 16 year old sex. Most people think it's too young for marriage and children. But how do people decide.

For myself and my family, my girls won't even start dating until they're about 19 or 20, and then only with the aim of finding a husband.

819 midwestgak  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:13:46pm

re: #771 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Kinda like Chicago...

good one

820 albusteve  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:13:57pm

re: #803 Texas Heathen

Ok. You asked for it. Linky

the link had no pictures!...what's up with that?

thanks

821 DeafDog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:14:04pm

re: #665 Spenser (with an S)

OT- Are there any Christian lizards who can help me out with a Christian response to an idiot sending me the article below on US torture? I can't say "They do worse to themselves every day" and I can't say "I wish they had done more" which are my first thoughts. He says we have now given up any moral authority in the world, yadayadayada.

.

First, although some folks have been aggressively questioned, none have been permenantly maimed.

Second, I would ask a rhetorical question.....let me get this straight....
1. The US maintained its moral authority when our forefathers pushed the native americans off their lands and - in many cases - killed them.
2. The US maintained its moral authority when our forefathers participated in slavery and all of the injustices around that outrage.
3. The US maintained its moral authority when our forefathers faught a brutal Civil War, suspended habeus corpus during it.
4. The US maintained its moral authority when it incarcerated Japanese Americans during WWII.
5. The US maintained its moral authority when we did nothing durning massacres in Cambodia and Rowanda.
6. The US maintained its moral authority despite having a death penalty for capital crimes since the republic began.

But because 3 or 4 people had (legitimatly) had stressful questioning, now all is lost? That is ridiculous.

Third, I would say that these, rare, instances of enhanced interrogation saved innocent lives. As a christian - if your friend is indeed stressing a christian argument and not a political one - is he/she willing to sacrafice these innocent lives for his principal? What if his life was the one saved?

822 jcbunga  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:14:14pm

These guys are so plainly freaked by intelligent, mature, self-assured women. Any 19 yr. old female Marine could jam the whole lot of them in a trash can.

823 Gella  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:14:22pm

re: #813 Atlantic's

Arguably, I would not exist if my grandmother had not married my grandfather at 15.

Please do not see this as an argument in favor of child marriage. I have four daughters. The oldest was married at 22, and I am hoping the other three will hold off until after they complete a college-level education of some type. However, we must remain cognizant of the fact that even our society is NOT what it was, even less than 100 years ago, and her father viewed her marriage as completely appropriate.

15 is not 10, also back then. life span was shorter then now
10 is not childbearing age

824 Prince of Dorkness  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:14:48pm

Gotta go Lizards, duty calls.

825 DeafDog  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:17:00pm

re: #721 OldLineTexan


Sorry. I wasn't trying to be a twit, it just happened.

826 Outrider  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:18:07pm

re: #818 mrseener

782 CapeCoddah

I, in fact, happen to have a 10 year old daughter, two other daughters ages 8 and 5 and a 6 year old son.

I'm not sure why some of you seem to think I'm saying/implying 10 years old is old enough. I'm not, and I don't think rondeldon was saying that either. But it's a discussion I've had with several people. How/who/what decides when is the appropriate for sex/marriage/children? In "Western" society, it's becoming acceptable for 18 year olds to have sex no problem, but that's creeping downwards. Hardly anyone bats an eye anymore about 17 or 16 year old sex. Most people think it's too young for marriage and children. But how do people decide.

For myself and my family, my girls won't even start dating until they're about 19 or 20, and then only with the aim of finding a husband.

physically able doesn't equate to mentally capable. ;-)>

827 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:18:16pm

Look, I don't believe in (g)odless evolution.

I'm not on the ID train, either, and I avoid those threads.

But I don't come to LGF to debate/debase people who do believe.

That's just being a troll.

828 JHW  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:18:31pm

This BBC article is from 2002, but very pertinent to this discussion.According to the article in India the current legal age for marriage is 18. One group is agitating to change the law for their group. Guess who?

"Muslim personal law says you can marry at 12, so I didn't see a problem with it. There are lots of bad things in society these days, so the sooner a girl gets married, the better." ...
In the slums, where she works, a typical girl might be married and a mother at 13.
Aruna says: "No one has ever given her the right to recreation, the right to education, right to shelter, right to food, nutrition. So she doesn't know these things to pass on to the next generation. And the grandmothers are probably in their late 20s.
In Barkas, a part of old Hyderabad, it is men who have traditionally been the predators. In the closely clustered houses, Arabs regularly fly in from abroad and, taking advantage of customary law, marry very young Muslim girls.

But often, after a few weeks, they leave and the girl soon gets divorce papers in the post.

That practice is not likely to stop if the Supreme Court does rule in favour of Muslims marrying at puberty.

The traditionalist Muslim Personal Law Board is supporting the Sajjad family in fighting for such a ruling. Its secretary, Mohammad Quraishi, refutes suggestions that it is a licence for paedophilia.

Battle Over India's Marriage Age

829 NY Nana  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:19:09pm

re: #796 buzzsawmonkey

I was reading from the bottom up, and just knew that was you! ;)

830 Spenser (with an S)  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:19:14pm

re: #821 DeafDog

Thanks, DeafDog. I'm cutting and pasting as we speak.

831 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:20:54pm

re: #823 Gella

15 is not 10, also back then. life span was shorter then now
10 is not childbearing age

No kidding. Here I thought I had explained myself with the first sentence of the second paragragh. Well, so much for trying.

BTW, my grandmother died at 94.

For the folks who can read through an entire post, once a female child begins menstruating she is arguably fertile and is therefore (LIKE IT OR NOT) of "childbearing age".

The social and/or religious mores that dictate WHEN the "child" is considered a "woman" are typically one-size fits all legal constructs.

The question, if phrased properly, is interesting. NATURE dictates that a ovulating female is ready to reproduce; NURTURE (rightly so, IMO) steps in to delay that so as to benefit society.

832 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:21:18pm

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

Get a clue. The reason that the age of marriage was raised had nothing to do with imposing moral values. It had to do with keeping the girl alive.

EARLY MARRIAGE

From the Article.

The risks of early pregnancy and child-
birth are well documented: increased risk
of dying, increased risk of premature
labour, complications during delivery, low
birth-weight, and a higher chance that the
newborn will not survive.
Pregnancy-related deaths are the lead-
ing cause of mortality for 15-19 year-old
girls (married and unmarried) worldwide.
Mothers in this age group face a 20 to 200
per cent greater chance of dying in preg-
nancy than women aged 20 to 24. Those
under age 15 are five times as likely to die
as women in their twenties.
The main causes are haemorrhage, sepsis, pre-
eclampsia/eclampsia and obstructed labour.


Sorry it to me so long to post a rebuttal, but I had to find a source.

833 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:21:26pm

re: #825 DeafDog

Sorry. I wasn't trying to be a twit, it just happened.

I put a sarc tag in so you would know I luvs ya!

834 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:21:41pm

re: #629 ploome hineni

Islam conquered peoples by subjugating and terrorizing and STEALING intellectual and scientific achievments from the subjugated peoples

read carefully, now

in ARABIA...where islam began....and there was no other indiginous culture............there never NEVER was any demonstration of intellectual activity....not artistic, not literature, not scientific NOTHING

only when islam FORCEBALY SUBJUGATED other mote advanced civilization....and FORCED ISLAM ON THESE CIVILIATION and designated all subsequent achievement as ISLAMIC...do you have any so called, islamic learning

it take centuries for civilizations to shrivel and die

ROME, BYZANTIUM became the Ottoman Empire...and finally Turkey

another islamic shithole

Islam took over, Persia, HInduIndia, the Assyriasn, the Maronites, the Copts, Egypt and the Greeks for a long time

and look what happened to these ancient and once great civiliations

Islam IS DEATH

Conquest and colonization was the norm in ancient times. Islam was a much more benevolent conqueror than say the Romans were or any of the Western nations for many centuries. Please don't try to tell me that Western nations did not FORCE Christianity on the people who they subjugated. The historical fact is that the Byzantines and Turks were hugely innovative in the sciences while Medieval Europe was a waste. Try to distinguish between what was and what is.

Today, virtually all Islamic nations are shit holes. No argument there. As were Christian nations in many respects prior to the age of enlightenment.

835 LGoPs  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:22:34pm

re: #665 Spenser (with an S)

OT- Are there any Christian lizards who can help me out with a Christian response to an idiot sending me the article below on US torture? I can't say "They do worse to themselves every day" and I can't say "I wish they had done more" which are my first thoughts. He says we have now given up any moral authority in the world, yadayadayada.


.

This ain't necessarily a canonical response but my question would be "How moral is it to stand by and allow hundreds and perhaps thousands to die, sacrificed on the altar of your sanctimonious sensibilities"
I would also state that happily, at the end of our alleged torture sessions, the interrogatees head is still firmly attached to his neck.
Then I'd spit......

836 nyc redneck  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:24:04pm

the koran demented moslems who engage in raping young girls should be receiving the harshest treatment from women's rights groups.
constant exposure and condemnation. everywhere in the world.
it is mind numbing that so few speak up abt. this terrible abuse.
there is no way to justify it.
it is evil.

837 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:24:15pm

I had to step away and now I have to go.

Have a great afternoon Lizards!

838 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:26:45pm
839 JHW  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:28:54pm

Wiki Article on Child Marriage mostly only Muslim countries allow the practice.

840 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:28:59pm
841 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:29:51pm

re: #818 mrseener

782 CapeCoddah

I, in fact, happen to have a 10 year old daughter, two other daughters ages 8 and 5 and a 6 year old son.

I'm not sure why some of you seem to think I'm saying/implying 10 years old is old enough. I'm not, and I don't think rondeldon was saying that either. But it's a discussion I've had with several people. How/who/what decides when is the appropriate for sex/marriage/children? In "Western" society, it's becoming acceptable for 18 year olds to have sex no problem, but that's creeping downwards. Hardly anyone bats an eye anymore about 17 or 16 year old sex. Most people think it's too young for marriage and children. But how do people decide.

For myself and my family, my girls won't even start dating until they're about 19 or 20, and then only with the aim of finding a husband.

In my opinion, the age should have something to do with whether or not the girl is capable of contributing to society and taking on adult responsibilities such as caring for a child, paying bills, making contracts, holding a job. In our society, all of these are important because relying on a husband to provide all of life's necessities is fool hardy and, when it fails, will make her a burden on society.

Add to that the other good points already made here.

842 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:32:09pm

Some of you are as intolerant as some leftists I know. Can't even ask a question and start a discussion that might cause you guys to think about morality/amorality without being dinged down, shouted at, and almost called a pedophile.

832 Bubblehead II

Get a clue. The reason that the age of marriage was raised had nothing to do with imposing moral values. It had to do with keeping the girl alive

I've never ever ever heard that as an argument against girls marrying young. Certainly not in the U.S. and other "developed countries" where 1000's of young girls are having babies with very low mortality rates.

843 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:32:45pm

re: #816 VioletTiger

Are you joking? I think the author of that post insulted us. Believing in evolution has no connection to pedophilia.

Of course it doesn't. This is how fanatics scare each other into believing they have to deny science. They tell each other: believe in evolution and you're doomed to become a Nazi pedophile ACLU supporter, and then burn in hell forever.

It's a pathetic argument, and implies that if they themselves were not religious, and didn't have the threat of eternal agony hanging over their heads, there would be nothing to hold them back from committing all manner of moral depravity. Pretty bleak view of human beings.

844 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:33:10pm

re: #838 ploome hineni

you are, of course ignoring the my core argument, that islam born in Arabia

is most pure in arabia, without the learning of any conquered people

islam is at its core, ignorant, bestial and based on submission

I am surprised that you do not take into account the punishment meted out to people who tell the truth about islam

how dangerous that is

I wasn't try to ignore it. Merely to place it in context. If you go back 500 years you will find barbarism (by today's standards) to the same scope and cruelty practiced everywhere. When one compares Christian societies to contemporary Islamic ones back then you will see that the Islamic were more civilized and advanced.

Today, of course, is an entirely different matter. I'm sorry, but it's not quite as simple as Islam == bad and Christianiaty == good on a full historical time line.

845 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:33:44pm

re: #840 ploome hineni

your attempt at comparing the two is nauseating me

have a good life, Achmed

Stay classy.

846 nikis-knight  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:36:34pm

re: #831 OldLineTexan


The social and/or religious mores that dictate WHEN the "child" is considered a "woman" are typically one-size fits all legal constructs.

I think that that is because age, or the start of menstration, are the only objective definitite criteria.
"When she is mature enough" is subjective, and "When she can raise children of her own" is impossible to tell until after the fact.
There are valid reasons to delay marriage until well after being physically capable of child birth, but since those require judgement calls on a case by case basis, the law has to have a more objective measurement, and age works well enough even if in some cases a female can be too immature after or mature enough before.

847 UberInfidel67  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:37:05pm
Youtube Video

The Rooster

848 nikis-knight  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:39:43pm

re: #834 MJBrutus

You miss the point. The great marvels of science that Islam is touted for comes from the conquered peoples before they were fully islamicized, not from those raised or willingly coverted to Islam, the followers of which did not achieve what is often attributed to them.

That's the arguement, anyway, I can't say I have evidence of it, but the present state of affairs certainly makes it credible.

849 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:40:00pm
850 avanti  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:43:15pm

re: #813 OldLineTexan

Arguably, I would not exist if my grandmother had not married my grandfather at 15.

2000 years ago, women were married off at a very tender age and having children at 12-15. It's likely that Mary would have been younger than the modern legal age of consent, but you died in your 30's and 40's back then. Today, we want girls to be mature enough both mentally and physically to wed.

851 NY Nana  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:44:15pm

Hmm, interesting:

Karma: -24

rondeldon

Registered since: May 4, 2008 at 6:54 pm
No. of comments posted: 2
No. of links posted: 0

/Seems to have taken a loooooong time to formulate the second post....very sloooooowly.

852 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:45:15pm

re: #842 mrseener

Check out the mortality rares during childbirth in the mid 1800's thru the mid 1900's in the United States. They were very high. For two reasons. The girls were allowed to marry at a young age and the medical care wasn't exactly what you would call cutting edge by today's standards.

853 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:47:23pm

re: #848 nikis-knight

You miss the point. The great marvels of science that Islam is touted for comes from the conquered peoples before they were fully islamicized, not from those raised or willingly coverted to Islam, the followers of which did not achieve what is often attributed to them.

That's the arguement, anyway, I can't say I have evidence of it, but the present state of affairs certainly makes it credible.

And I referred to evidence to the contrary when I cited how so many starts came to have Arabic names. Granted that was a rather oblique reference, so I'll do a little better for you.

From Islamic Science

Another common feature during the Islamic Golden Age was the large number of Muslim polymaths or "universal geniuses", scholars who contributed to many different fields of knowledge. Muslim polymaths were known as "Hakeems" and they had a wide breadth of knowledge in many different fields of religious and secular learning, comparable to the later "Renaissance Men", such as Leonardo da Vinci, of the European Renaissance period. Polymath scholars were so common during the Islamic Golden Age that it was rare to find a scholar who specialized in any single field at the time.[37] Notable Muslim polymaths included al-Biruni, al-Jahiz, al-Kindi, Abu Bakr Muhammad al-Razi, Ibn Sina, al-Idrisi, Ibn Bajja, Ibn Zuhr, Ibn Tufayl, Ibn Rushd, al-Suyuti[38] Geber, al-Khwarizmi, the Banū Mūsā, Abbas Ibn Firnas, al-Farabi, al-Masudi, al-Muqaddasi, Alhacen, Omar Khayyám, al-Ghazali, al-Khazini, Avempace, al-Jazari, Ibn al-Nafis, Nasīr al-Dīn al-Tūsī, Ibn al-Shatir, Ibn Khaldun, and Taqi al-Din, among many others

Most of this at a time when Western science resembled that scene from, "Monty Python And The Holy Grail."

854 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:52:52pm

843 Charles

Of course it doesn't. This is how fanatics scare each other into believing they have to deny science. Believe in evolution and you're doomed to become a Nazi pedophile ACLU supporter, and then burn in hell forever.

It's a pathetic argument, and implies that if they themselves were not religious, there would be nothing to hold them back from committing all manner of moral depravity. Pretty bleak view of human beings.

My view is that you can't have morality without religion. But that doesn't mean you are doomed to be immoral, just as religious people are not assured of being moral. Without religion, you can have ethics, which may or may not lead to morality.

I heard an interesting story a couple of weeks ago.

There was an Israeli girl who was born to a secular family that traveled to India after her national service was over. She became very attached to some guru there and stayed in India to be with him.

Her grandmother, who she was very close to, passed away, and she took the opportunity to return to Israel for the funeral. She told her parents about the guru and that she was planning on returning to India and staying there.

Her parents were very upset and tried to convince her to stay in Israel. They were very secular and had not been to religious services in who knows how long, but they had an idea maybe if they took their daughter to a religious service in Israel, she might be attracted to that and realize she can fulfill her spiritual needs in Israel. So they went to some synagogue or shul or something.

They arrived a few minutes before services were to begin. Someone was just finishing a class teaching about the laws of returning lost objects. They listened to the last few minutes of the class. After the class, the daughter argued with the person who had taught the class that it was stupid to have such complex specific laws about returning lost objects. Of course any moral person, if they found something that was lost, would return it to its rightful owner.

The whole experience appeared to be a failure. After the service, the family went home. The parents were very upset, but they didn't know what to do.

The daughter went back to India and back to the guru. There was a whole group of the guru's followers that were going to make some trek up some mountain or something. Just as they were about to ascend the mountain, the Israeli girl, who was walking next to the guru, spotted a wallet on the ground. The guru spotted it too. He picked it up and put it in his pocket and continued walking. There were many other groups of people around the base of the mountain, and the girl wasn't sure if the wallet belonged to someone in their group, so she told the guru maybe it would be better if they tried to find the owner now before they ascended. The guru said to her "What do you mean? god put that wallet there for me."

The girl soon returned to Israel. I don't know what's become of her since, but I thought it was an interesting story.

855 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 12:56:49pm

849 ploome hineni 1/14/09 12:40:00 pm reply quote


I've never ever ever heard that as an argument against girls marrying young. Certainly not in the U.S. and other "developed countries" where 1000's of young girls are having babies with very low mortality rates.

source please

# Kaufmann RB et al. The decline in US teen pregnancy rates, 1990-1995. Pediatrics 1998; 102:1141-47.
# Centers for Disease Control & Prevention. National and state-specific pregnancy rates among adolescents, United States, 1995-1997. Morbidity & Mortality Weekly Report 2000; 49:605-11.

856 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:03:04pm
857 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:04:16pm
858 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:06:35pm
859 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:06:37pm

re: #818 mrseener

782 CapeCoddah

I, in fact, happen to have a 10 year old daughter, two other daughters ages 8 and 5 and a 6 year old son.

I'm not sure why some of you seem to think I'm saying/implying 10 years old is old enough. I'm not, and I don't think rondeldon was saying that either. But it's a discussion I've had with several people. How/who/what decides when is the appropriate for sex/marriage/children? In "Western" society, it's becoming acceptable for 18 year olds to have sex no problem, but that's creeping downwards. Hardly anyone bats an eye anymore about 17 or 16 year old sex. Most people think it's too young for marriage and children. But how do people decide.

I will concede that in the world of secular 'moral relativity' that the age of 'acceptability' will begin to drop as depravity, malfeasance, deviance and fiendishness are more and more tolerated. Those are judgmental words on my part, but they are part of my 'moral relativity' in relation to myself and my personal world view. NAMBLA is all over that goal as just one group off the top of my head, as obviously Islam.

Also in my personal world view and sphere of influence, my children, are going to be monitored, coached, and educated about my personal world view of 18 34 (lol.) as being the minimum age to be married. In a 'secular' society we only have the law to go by. Which, I fear, is under attack at all times. Part of that attack will eventually concede that 14 - 17 are good enough as to the 'age of consent'... if not possibly lower.

As for now my children are under my watch for their whole lives as an attempted 'good parent' and I will always be there to have some sort of influence, but under watch of the law at 18 they are free to do what they want. So I will go with 18.

My religious beliefs are such that even if the 'moral relativity' world may tell me it is lower I will not allow it to happen. I have my own 'line in the sand' as do you. Then if events are such that the laws are so backwards that a 'social service' worker can intervene for some, IMHO, deviant law that is passed, I will have a clean conscious doing what I can to defend my family from the morally relative government all the while explaining and doing what I can to persuade my children why those laws are not 'good' laws.

In short. I have to agree with you. In a secular world...there is nothing to stop it but a lot of psychological studies and statistics that may show damage to the 'organism'. And we know how accurate statistics are. It's a moral cesspool with no foundation.

So yeah. My opinion.

860 Bubblehead II  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:06:45pm

re: #856 ploome hineni

GMTA. See my 832

861 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:08:56pm
862 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:10:06pm
863 JHW  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:13:13pm

Maternal Mortality in Islamic and Arabic Countries

The shocking estimated numbers are in Africa and Asia where all Islamic and Arabic countries exist. The highest MMR in Sierra Leone(2,000), Afghanistan(1,900), Niger(1,600), Mali(1,200), Chad, guinea-Bissau, Somalia(1,100 each), Burkina, Mauritania, Mozambique(1000 each), Uganda(880), Nigeria(800), Senegal(690), Sudan(590), Yemen(570), and Pakistan(500).[6]

These numbers indicate that there is a real problem in Islamic and Arabic countries, and that shouldn't be a problem because women do not die from disease but during the normal, life-enhancing process of procreation. Most of these deaths could be avoided if preventive measures were taken and adequate care were available.
In Islamic and Arabic countries, many women are assisted in delivery by traditional birth attendants or only by relatives; many deliver alone. Only 53% of women have the assistance of skilled health personnel (a midwife or doctor), and only 40% give birth in a hospital or health centre.
n Islamic and Arabic countries reductions in maternal mortality can be achieved primarily by improving the position of women in society rather than by raising the general standard of living or making available appropriate health services. Education has been found to be a most effective tool against maternal and neonatal death, because studies have shown that where mothers are educated, there has been low records of such deaths. Women in Islamic and Arabic countries will never achieve satisfactory health outcomes until they themselves, through the acquisition of knowledge and learning, are able to compete, at all levels of society, for their fair and equitable share of power and influence. Governments need to take actions to promote safe pregnancy by:

* Reform of laws that prevent women from attaining the highest possible levels of health and nutrition needed for safe pregnancy and childbirth such as laws requiring women in need of health care to seek the authorization of husbands or other family members first.
* Implementation of laws that prohibit child marriage, female genital mutilation, rape, and sexual abuse. Every effort should be made to implement laws that encourage the healthy timing of births, such as those that support the education of girls, set a minimum age for marriage, and ensure women's access to essential health care.
* Application of human rights in national legislation and policy to advance safe pregnancy.

864 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:13:36pm
865 itellu3times  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:17:05pm

re: #848 nikis-knight

You miss the point. The great marvels of science that Islam is touted for comes from the conquered peoples before they were fully islamicized, not from those raised or willingly coverted to Islam, the followers of which did not achieve what is often attributed to them.

That's the arguement, anyway, I can't say I have evidence of it, but the present state of affairs certainly makes it credible.

Tis true, wherever there was even a hiccup of science under Islam, it was brutally supressed within a generation. I am not an expert either, but I do not believe there are any exceptions.

866 godfrey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:20:07pm

re: #853 MJBrutus

Most of those guys are Persians and early (medieval) in Islamic history.

Undeniably, alHazen's work on optics was important. The difference that makes all the difference is that European scientists had better tools and a better culture for discussion and the making of even better tools. They also had many other cultural advantages that, taken together, explain the burst of knowledge and creativity of the West -- which has brought the world where it is today.

No one denies that there were smart people in Persia way back when, and that they were Muslims of one sort or another (forcibly converted, nominal, minimalist, rhetorically pious, sincere but methodologically irrelevant, etc.). The question here is whether Islam and its culture is more of a help or a hindrance to science and its spin-offs/practical developments.

The answer is plainly that Islam has been more of a hindrance. For many reasons, most of which have to do with self-stupefying pride.

867 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:21:24pm

856 ploome hineni


Young maternal age was associated with increased risk of postneonatal death in full term, healthy infants

You're missing my point. What is your evidence that this was the reason for raising the marriageable age?

mrseener.....you have more attitude than brains to do the minimum resarch before you make your rediculous assertions

This from someone who can't find a "Pediatrics" article when the issue, year, and page numbers are supplied to you?

to promote your special agenda

Thanks for saying my agenda is special. What is my agenda anyway?

868 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:21:39pm
869 itellu3times  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:22:15pm

re: #834 MJBrutus

Conquest and colonization was the norm in ancient times. Islam was a much more benevolent conqueror than say the Romans were or any of the Western nations for many centuries. Please don't try to tell me that Western nations did not FORCE Christianity on the people who they subjugated. The historical fact is that the Byzantines and Turks were hugely innovative in the sciences while Medieval Europe was a waste. Try to distinguish between what was and what is.

Today, virtually all Islamic nations are shit holes. No argument there. As were Christian nations in many respects prior to the age of enlightenment.

I doubt you have a single supportable fact in that entire paragraph. Western nations did not force Christianity on such colonies as they had, India never turned Christian, did it? The Romans didn't force their paganism on their subjects, certainly not on the Jews, though there was some friction there (harumph). Much of the innovation in the east was pre-Islamic, or trivial by modern standards. And really, conquest and colonization were never the "norm", they just happen to constitute our history, because the long boring periods between, don't make for good reading.

870 godfrey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:22:37pm

re: #853 MJBrutus

Read the wiki you link to:

During the early Muslim conquests, the Muslim Arab forces, led primarily by Khalid ibn al-Walid, conquered the Sassanid Persian Empire and more than half of the Byzantine Roman Empire, establishing the Arab Empire across the Middle East, Central Asia, and North Africa, followed by further expansions across Pakistan, southern Italy and the Iberian Peninsula. As a result, the Islamic governments inherited the knowledge and skills of the ancient Middle East, of Greece, of Persia and of India [26]

"Inherited" is a disgusting euphemism. "Took" is more accurate.

871 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:22:46pm

859 Oh no...Sand People!

Thank you for your thoughtful interesting answer. And also to the several others that also responded with an answer and not an attack.

872 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:28:11pm
873 baconeatingkaffir  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:28:16pm

None of hte crazy shit that the headquarters of the doomsday cult dishes out amazes me anymore. These people are lke rabid street dogs. If Mohammeddid it... they can do it too.
This joke may be a bit
q.Why do they call the camel the "ship of the desert"?

I'll not post the answer but anyone with a good imagination can get the puncline.


I think I picked that one up from my time in the sandbox but as time goes by...it seems more realistic. If it breaths and moves.. its a candidate.

874 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:30:20pm
875 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:30:54pm

re: #871 mrseener

859 Oh no...Sand People!

Thank you for your thoughtful interesting answer. And also to the several others that also responded with an answer and not an attack.

I definitely can see both sides of the equation. A few reasons are way to close to home to go into. But if the proverbial spade is a spade. My new years resolution is to remove my blanket of cynicism. I have to believe that most people are inherently good. So if a society in the far distant, or if I am wrong, closer distant future chooses something completely an affront to common sense...that society will not last long with decent people standing by the wayside. I hope.

876 godfrey  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:33:05pm

re: #871 mrseener

What is a "marriage"? That is another way to approach the question in purely secular terms. Is it just a contractual arrangement, a kind of acquisition? Or is it something more? And if it is something more, what is it?

What does "marriage" mean if it is between a man of fifty and a girl who is just entering puberty at nine? Or, if you like, between a boy of fifteen and a girl of nine?

How low is one willing to lower the bar, especially at this time in history?

877 baconeatingkaffir  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:46:47pm

re: #874 ploome hineni

what changed your mind?

I dont want to have a poste deleted maybe...

878 mjbrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 1:57:38pm

re: #869 itellu3times

I doubt you have a single supportable fact in that entire paragraph. Western nations did not force Christianity on such colonies as they had, India never turned Christian, did it? The Romans didn't force their paganism on their subjects, certainly not on the Jews, though there was some friction there (harumph). Much of the innovation in the east was pre-Islamic, or trivial by modern standards. And really, conquest and colonization were never the "norm", they just happen to constitute our history, because the long boring periods between, don't make for good reading.

Puh-lease! Why do you suppose just about all of South America is Christian? Or the Philippines? Or any of a hundred other places? Of course it was the norm. It was how dictatorial rulers behaved. In the case of the West, primogeniture ensured a fresh stock of younger sons to go out and conquer places to rule.

879 suitepotato  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:01:35pm

re: #703 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Watching the new season of 24 & seeing Janine Garafallo again makes me wonder how we ever got out of that decade alive.

Janine Garafallo is an excellent example. The more primitive the human society, the greater the tendency to treat childhood less as a thing in and of itself, and more to treat it as far too short a time to acclimate the person to being an adult, which is where they spend the vast majority of their time on planet Earth.

A girl 10-12 years old, having started from the time she could first walk to help her mother keep the home, carry water, prepare food, take care of younger siblings, might well be mature enough in that society to marry for all intents and purposes, especially if there is a tacit shared recognition in that society of the idea that no amount of adulthood makes you prepared to be good enough a person to handle marriage better than otherwise. If anything, I think social conservatives might agree that living together first for years has never made marriages stronger, but instead what makes marriages strong is simple choice: commitment to seeing it through.

However, as the modern world runs along, the trend of human modernization is towards embrace of childhood as its own experience and not to use it to train people to be ready to be adults and indeed in the USA, immature loudmouths like JG are an excellent example that being young hot and trendy and a stand-up comic doesn't make you particularly wise, brainy, or insightful. Turn on your television and you can see what treating childhood romantically instead of functionally is doing: people who can't manage relationships, handle work and careers, support themselves, keep themselves sober or well behaved, and a general lackadaisical slouch towards chaos.

Is there a happy medium between bare subsistence and modern comforts? Of course there is but it entails recognition of the need for balance. Adults should not look back on their childhood and imagine themselves more innocent than they were. Consider when you first noticed girls and when you got those feelings and a yearning to descramble the Playboy channel and when you first stole a beer from dad. Neither should we imagine that children are capable of being as stable as an eighty year old world traveled professor. A basic lack of functional experience precludes that.

Balance. Education. Commitment. Cultural reinforcement.

If we cannot come up with a coherent picture of what our way stands for and why we have it, we have no chance of making headway against people like this sheikh and those who agree with him because from the very start we have nothing like a solid argument against his interpretation of his world, its requirements, and their idea of what childhood is for because to this day, we have no clue what it is for either.

Do you really need to look farther than our popular culture to know that? Can't stand for principles you can't expound upon because you don't actually know what they are.

880 debutaunt  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:05:32pm

re: #858 ploome hineni

what is the basis of 'morality' to an atheist?

What is the basis of morality to anyone?

881 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:16:02pm
882 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:19:10pm
883 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:21:09pm

re: #866 godfrey

Most of those guys are Persians and early (medieval) in Islamic history.

Undeniably, alHazen's work on optics was important. The difference that makes all the difference is that European scientists had better tools and a better culture for discussion and the making of even better tools. They also had many other cultural advantages that, taken together, explain the burst of knowledge and creativity of the West -- which has brought the world where it is today.

No one denies that there were smart people in Persia way back when, and that they were Muslims of one sort or another (forcibly converted, nominal, minimalist, rhetorically pious, sincere but methodologically irrelevant, etc.). The question here is whether Islam and its culture is more of a help or a hindrance to science and its spin-offs/practical developments.

The answer is plainly that Islam has been more of a hindrance. For many reasons, most of which have to do with self-stupefying pride.

Does the name Galileo ring a bell? For that matter, tell me about those ID/Creationist trogs are anything but a Christian hindrance to science?

Unlike you most posters here wouldn't lift a finger to do ANY research on their own. In fact, algebra (an Arabic word) was invented by Muslims during this era! Here a just a few more examples.

Omar Khayyam was an Islamic scholar who was a poet as well as a mathematician. He compiled astronomical tables and contributed to calendar reform and discovered a geometrical method of solving cubic equations by intersecting a parabola with a circle.

In Islamic physics, Ibn Bajjah's law of motion was equivalent to the principle that uniform motion implies absence of action by a force. This principle would later form the basis of modern mechanics and have a subsequent influence on the classical mechanics of physicists such as Galileo Galilei. Ibn Bajjah's definition of velocity was also equivalent to Galileo's definition of velocity

There era of science in the Muslim world pretty much ended with Taqi Al-Din, who was something of an Islamic DaVinci:

The particular significance of Taqī al-Dīn in the tradition of Islamic science is that he personifies the best of Islamic science in the 16th century. With his work, Islamic science was still original and creative. Being highly original, his work can be compared with Tycho Brahe and with Italian engineers, whom he preceded in the design of original machines and instruments. However, he was one of the last original and prolific scientists to practice and write science in Arabic following the centuries-old Islamic scientific tradition. After him, the rate of originality will decrease, and at the same time modern European science will experience a real and exponential take-off with Kepler, Galileo, and later with Newton.

By then the candle passed to the West who built ON TOP OF KNOWLEDGE that we in turn INHERITED/STOLE/ACQUIRED/BORROWED from the Muslim world.

884 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:22:33pm
885 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:24:00pm
886 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:25:52pm

re: #869 itellu3times

I doubt you have a single supportable fact in that entire paragraph. Western nations did not force Christianity on such colonies as they had, India never turned Christian, did it? The Romans didn't force their paganism on their subjects, certainly not on the Jews, though there was some friction there (harumph). Much of the innovation in the east was pre-Islamic, or trivial by modern standards. And really, conquest and colonization were never the "norm", they just happen to constitute our history, because the long boring periods between, don't make for good reading.

Oh really? Please tell me how just about all of Latin America came to practice Christianity? And please enlighten me as to how the same occurred in the Philippines and the extensively colonized regions of Africa. I'm dying to hear the cleaned-up, Christian apologetic version.

887 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:26:51pm

re: #885 ploome hineni

maybe you could tell us about scientific and intellectual life in ARABIA

WITHOUT CHRISTIAN JEWISH ETC?

If I seem to be ignoring you, it's because I am.

888 uptight  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:27:25pm

If the Federation could make peace with a primitive, violent clan like the Klingons, maybe there's hope we'll one day see eye-to-eye with Saudi Arabia and just accept their barbarity as "just a cultural thing".

I can't see it happening until we all shed our moral compasses and value things like radical posturing instead.

Youtube Video
889 uptight  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:29:41pm

re: #884 ploome hineni
can you show us any intellectual accomplishments from ARABIA?

They pioneered the modern Suicide Bomber

890 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:33:49pm
891 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:35:10pm
892 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:37:58pm
893 derecho  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:39:51pm

ref: #13

Of course it has to be all right, if not, Muslims would be admitting that Mohammed was a pedophile.

894 Maui Girl  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:45:56pm

re: #55 Jetpilot1101

Can anyone name ONE thing constructive that the Islamic world has contributed to modern society?

nope

895 happy_days  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 2:48:55pm

I really don't believe that Sheik-a-dizzy-sheikh has considered how difficult it would be for a 10 year old married girl to complete her high school education /sarc

896 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 3:02:41pm
897 neomexicon  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 3:10:18pm

sick. plainly, simply sick.

898 ceemack  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 3:29:29pm

re: #858 ploome hineni

what is the basis of 'morality' to an atheist?


It could be a desire to live a good life, in peace and security. If you take out the first of the Ten Commandments, the other nine actually make a pretty good set of basic rules for all in a civil society to follow.

Or it could be a desire to hold oneself to a high standard of conduct.

Or a desire to live without regret...to be able to look oneself in the mirror without shame every morning.

Religion is no guarantee of morality, and atheism is no guarantee of immorality.

899 Wilderstad  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 3:31:24pm

re: #156 MandyManners

Mandy, most girls now reach puberty once they hit 100lbs body weight. That appears to be the magic number to kick off menses. These days that's not hard to do, in the past when food was not so plentiful, it was a different story.
rBGH might be an influence, it's certainly connected with the development of cancer.

900 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 3:46:35pm
901 claire  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 4:12:27pm

#900 Ploome:

Not sure where you are going with this, but Atheism gets it's morals from the Golden Rule.

902 uptight  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 4:17:33pm

re: #901 claire

#900 Ploome:

Not sure where you are going with this, but Atheism gets it's morals from the Golden Rule.

never eat yellow snow?

903 The Sanity Inspector  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 4:27:16pm

Islam: it's a man's man's man's world!

'Course, this ruling doesn't speak well for the Saudi clergy's social lives.

904 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 4:28:51pm
905 PayBackTime  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 4:39:09pm

Plus Saudi Arabia is using the same team find the perpetrators of 9/11 that OJ is using to find the killer of his wife and Ron Goldman.

906 jrausta  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 5:20:38pm

Do they still get prizes, like a Star Wars burka, with their happy meals and $.99 burgers--with an ice cream cup--at Applebee's?

907 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 5:25:25pm

re: #900 ploome hineni

I realize I am having a problem articulating the question

what is the basis for 'moral' to an atheist?

where does the concept and how are the behaviors determined?

you mean atheists determine morality using the 10 commandments, based on Jewish law, minus the first one of course?

"ploomie" -

More like the Seven (7) of Noah - AND - you got the Idea.

-S-

908 Daisy  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 5:34:00pm

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

Let me guess: Member in good standing of NAMBLA or just your everyday sexual predator of children?

909 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 5:35:55pm

re: #901 claire

#900 Ploome:

Not sure where you are going with this, but Atheism gets it's morals from the Golden Rule.

I can't say I know where you or anyone of the other posters on this topic are going. Atheism says one thing and one thing only. That is that there are no god(s). Atheism says nothing about morality, golden rules, commandments, pitchforks or any of the rest. The implication of there being no god(s) is that it is up to individual atheists to decide what morality means for themselves.

910 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 5:38:54pm

re: #562 rondeldon

If we are just evolved animals what difference does it make? Age limit is nothing but an artificial constraint we have invented. Animals have sex when both parties are capable. Evolutionists are so inconsistent in trying to impose moral values when they have no right to do so.

I will attempt a reasoned response. People who understand that evolution is a scientific fact do not, with that act of comprehension, throw off all the chains of morality and descend into the darkest depravity. We still know something about right and wrong.

Let's say you're correct about God's law. Why should we not have some knowledge of good and evil? Isn't it right there in the Bible that Man has eaten of the fruit of knowledge thereof? That innate knowledge of good and evil predates the Ten Commandments and the rest. There is, by the Biblical account, a morality, a right and wrong, accessible to all and prior to the detailed Biblical law. Some of us "evolutionists" may balk at accepting all the moral law laid down in the Bible, though if Descartes is any example, reason gets you to the same place on most of the big issues. But still, give us a bit of credit as human beings with a soul and a knowledge of good and evil.

Forcing girls who have only just hit puberty and aren't ready to bear the rigors of pregnancy or the emotional storms of a newly developed sexuality is wrong. It's obviously wrong. They're too young and inexperienced to be able to give informed consent. Their own interests are wholly traduced: why should they bear the child of a much older man, who is likely to sire a defective child on them? Why should they have no say in who their mate will be? Why should they have no say in when they will become pregnant? Young as they are, they won't even have any say in what's for dinner.

What about an education? Their duties as wife, and, soon enough, mother, will rob from them the time they need to become any sort of informed and capable adult. That sort of a marriage isn't a marriage, it's slavery.

But say you're wrong about God and God's moral law. Then maybe we're right. Maybe we have the winning insight into the distinction between good and evil. And we tell you this business of forcing children aged ten or less into marriage is profoundly wrong.

Oh, and animals sometimes commit what among humans would count as rape. A considerable fraction of orangutan matings are forcible copulation, and orangs have been known to force human females as well. For orangs, among orangs, that is their nature. But for humans, we know good and evil, and some of us choose evil, and most choose good, but almost everybody knows the difference.

911 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 5:40:03pm
912 Daisy  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 5:49:49pm

re: #900 ploome hineni

I realize I am having a problem articulating the question

what is the basis for 'moral' to an atheist?

where does the concept and how are the behaviors determined?

you mean atheists determine morality using the 10 commandments, based on Jewish law, minus the first one of course?

I don't see any problem w/how you articulated the question. You are stating a wonderfully logical question with perfect clarity. It's providing an honest answer to the question that gives rise to difficulty and avoidance.

913 MJBrutus  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 5:58:12pm

re: #912 Daisy

I don't see any problem w/how you articulated the question. You are stating a wonderfully logical question with perfect clarity. It's providing an honest answer to the question that gives rise to difficulty and avoidance.

That is because it is rather like asking where do NY Giant fans get their morality? Or where do plumbers get their morality? Since atheism says the one and only thing about our world view that I mentioned above, the answer is as diverse as the individual.

P.S. To that ploome idiot who has decided to follow me around like a lost puppy in this thread and who thinks he knows me so well, I ain't no ROP'er, I'm an atheist.

914 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 6:09:02pm

910 lostlakehiker

But for humans, we know good and evil, and some of us choose evil, and most choose good, but almost everybody knows the difference.

I totally disagree with you. Evil people almost never consider themselves, or what they are doing, as evil.

Like the guru in the story I related above, they have a way of justifying what they do. I'm not saying I think the guru was/is evil. That's the only story I know about him. I have no hesitation in saying that what he did in that particular instance was morally wrong.

Forcing girls who have only just hit puberty and aren't ready to bear the rigors of pregnancy or the emotional storms of a newly developed sexuality is wrong.

I had a babysitter who was a Jew born and brought up in Morocco. She was married at age 12 and had 4 children pretty young. I don't know if this was the case when she was young, but it used to be that unmarried Jewish girls in Islamic lands were at risk of being kidnapped and wed to a Muslim. So they married them early to protect them. The custom possibly extended past when the threat did. But the point is that in some cultures it can be argued that it was the right thing to do.

Being that Saudi culture is just about as misogynist as they come, I have no problem assuming that what this cleric said about 10 year olds being eligible to marry is just a part of their misogynist culture, but sometimes things are not as black and white as one might think. I think the cleric really believes what he said was true and good and not evil.

915 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 6:34:52pm

re: #914 mrseener

910 lostlakehiker


I had a babysitter who was a Jew born and brought up in Morocco. She was married at age 12 and had 4 children pretty young. I don't know if this was the case when she was young, but it used to be that unmarried Jewish girls in Islamic lands were at risk of being kidnapped and wed to a Muslim. So they married them early to protect them. The custom possibly extended past when the threat did. But the point is that in some cultures it can be argued that it was the right thing to do.

Being that Saudi culture is just about as misogynist as they come, I have no problem assuming that what this cleric said about 10 year olds being eligible to marry is just a part of their misogynist culture, but sometimes things are not as black and white as one might think. I think the cleric really believes what he said was true and good and not evil.

I would add to this that I think that the Saudis have an extreme form of a problem I see in some extreme Orthodox Jewish communities--embracing a deliberately antiquated and extreme version of religious practice to combat modernism and its evils, especially its feminist evils. It may make sense for a twelve-year-old girl in a pre-modern society to marry--and usually to marry a boy not much older than she--with the intent of creating ties between families, children, and a functioning work unit.

It's different to marry a pre-pubescent girl off to a much older man, in a society that does so with a conscious intent to prevent her from gaining any kind of independence, education, or skills. All the more so when the more progressive elements in the same society are encouraging later marriages.

I read an article not too long ago about a Bedouin woman in Israel who'd gotten a doctorate in something academic. Most of the women in her family had married in their early teens, but she wanted to finish school. Her father was threatened by relatives because they saw her remaining single and going to school as a threat to the tribe's reputation. He told them to get lost, it was his kid, and she'd do what he said she would.

That's where hope lies, in people like that, and Saudis who say that their daughter isn't getting married until she's eighteen no matter what the neighbors say.

916 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 7:38:04pm
It's different to marry a pre-pubescent girl off to a much older man, in a society that does so with a conscious intent to prevent her from gaining any kind of independence, education, or skills. All the more so when the more progressive elements in the same society are encouraging later marriages.

But I don't think most of them do it out of maliciousness. They think what they are doing is right and good for both the women , the tribe, and the society as a whole.

I remember reading an article about Waris Dirie in "TV Guide" many years ago. She said how her mother held her down while she was horribly mutilated. Her mother didn't do this out of malice. She thought that this was what was best for her. She wouldn't be able to get married without it and an unmarriageable girl was probably at great risk in her society.

Her father was threatened by relatives because they saw her remaining single and going to school as a threat to the tribe's reputation.

And that could be a terrible thing in Bedouin society where reputation and honor are very important. You applaud the father because you automatically identify with him, but I assume you never bothered to check on the tribe to see how his daughter's decision affected them, their livelihood, their families, and and their relations with other tribes etc.

I think there is quite a bit of chauvinism at play here. I remember after watching the movie "The Witness" I was discussing it with my aunt. She said "Why didn't she just leave the Amish so she could be with him?" I said "Well, why didn't he just leave the rest of the society, join the Amish, and be with her?" My aunt looked at me like "My goodness, that would never occur to me." We have been brought up to believe that "Western world" is better than these other "backwards" cultures. And anything that goes against "Western values" we automatically label as being not as good, or even as evil.

But I really am curious how people justify this without religion. People attacked me and dinged me for asking. But really, I find it very interesting to hear what people think about this.

917 ratherdashing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:14:50pm

re: #915 SanFranciscoZionist

That's where hope lies, in people like that, and Saudis who say that their daughter isn't getting married until she's eighteen no matter what the neighbors say.

I read an article recently about a Saudi doctor refusing to conduct the mandatory pre-marital blood test on an underage girl scheduled to be married. He took a stand and prevented the marriage. It may get overruled in Sharia Court, but it's a start.

I'll look for the link.

918 Wilderstad  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:18:43pm

re: #916 mrseener

So you argue it's perfectly alright to sacrifice the well being of the one for the many. Especially if the one it affects most negatively has no say.
You sir betray an individual's right to self autonomy, determination and security of the person. FOAD.

919 ratherdashing  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:20:24pm

re: #917 ratherdashing

I read an article recently about a Saudi doctor refusing to conduct the mandatory pre-marital blood test on an underage girl scheduled to be married. He took a stand and prevented the marriage. It may get overruled in Sharia Court, but it's a start.

I'll look for the link.

Found it:

Saudi Arabia: Doctor stops wedding with five year-old

920 Macker  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:21:45pm

re: #12 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Methinks the grand mufti has a grand case of projection.

Please, you insult the Toasters with that!

921 mrseener  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:47:46pm

918 Wilderstad

So you argue it's perfectly alright to sacrifice the well being of the one for the many. Especially if the one it affects most negatively has no say.
You sir betray an individual's right to self autonomy, determination and security of the person. FOAD.

I'm not saying anything is alright or not alright. Goodness gracious! I wonder what percentage of LGF readers can pass the most basic of reading comprehension exams.

However, are you saying it's perfectly alright to sacrifice the well being of the many for the one?

Who determines what a individual's rights are, anyway?

I'm not a sir.

922 Claire  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 8:55:22pm

re: #904 ploome hineni

so you think 'atheism get's its morals' from the Bible?

I don't know- Probably some do as a form of osmosis from the best aspects of society and intuition by observing what makes a pleasant life for all. I know a few atheists who have never read the bible and didn't grow up in western society and they lead moral lives. How did that happen, lol.

Did the bible introduce the idea originally? Had it not occurred to any society as a concept of how to treat each other until the point the book came out? Are we all just blank slates waiting for one good idea to spread, like the wheel, or can we generate them independently using our own cognitive powers at different times in different societies?

Are ethics intuitive or learned? I think it's some of both.

923 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:18:09pm

re: #921 mrseener

I believe the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many, because if the one is not valued, how can there be value on more than one? If the rights of an individual are not maintained, your rights mean nothing.

If we give a pass to cultures by saying that's just the way they are, then we stifle humanity. We cannot improve as a species by giving barbarism an excuse.

924 Roses  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:25:25pm

mrsneener, You are surely NOT justifying this child abuse? This record and pattern and POLICY of abuse?

Please say you are not.

925 Roses  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:27:26pm

You cannot be saying that it is wrong to protect ONE child if fifty adult men want to 'marry' her? one v many?

I'm with Sharmuta on this one.

926 Roses  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:34:52pm

"We have been brought up to believe that "Western world" is better than these other "backwards" cultures. And anything that goes against "Western values" we automatically label as being not as good, or even as evil."

No. What makes them backwars is forcing women to wear burkhas, killing them if they walk on a street without a husband or father with them, stoning a teenager to death for having a boyfriend, beheading a woman on a soccer field like it is a sporting event, honor killings - NOTHING - and I mean NOTHING! justifies that. It is 'backwards.' And much worse.

927 Wilderstad  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:40:29pm

re: #921 mrseener

918 Wilderstad

I'm not saying anything is alright or not alright. Goodness gracious! I wonder what percentage of LGF readers can pass the most basic of reading comprehension exams.


Who determines what a individual's rights are, anyway?

Do as ye be done by.

I'm not a sir.


You insulting all of us with a slur upon our reading ability does you no credit. We can read and pass comprehension exams.

You're defending this position are you not? Here you are speaking of Waris Dirie's FGM experience and by extension the Saudi ruling on marrying 10 year olds: "I don't think most of them do it out of maliciousness. They think what they are doing is right and good for both the women , the tribe, and the society as a whole."

Right - Male self interest and control of female fertility and desire doesn't enter into this at all.

However, are you saying it's perfectly alright to sacrifice the well being of the many for the one?

I'm saying the rights of the community to impose harm on others ( and both examples you present are clearly harm) should be limited severely even if it benefits others.

As to your question: "Who determines what a individual's rights are, anyway?"
Woman, most cultures have the concept of :" Do as you would be done by" or the Golden Rule.
Your attempts at moral/cultural equivalence fail here.

Why don't we cut your achilles tendons and hobble you. It's after all for the greater good, so you can't run away so that you're an easier target for those poor disadvantaged criminals out there. They have needs too.

928 Canoe Train  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:56:41pm

re: #776 mrseener

We can legislate ages of consent, in order that young people are not taken advantage of by adults who know better and are counting upon the relative unsophistication of the young people.

929 Canoe Train  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 9:57:58pm

Oh. One more thing. FOAD, mrseener.

930 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 14, 2009 10:11:21pm

re: #923 Sharmuta

I believe the needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many, because if the one is not valued, how can there be value on more than one? If the rights of an individual are not maintained, your rights mean nothing.

If we give a pass to cultures by saying that's just the way they are, then we stifle humanity. We cannot improve as a species by giving barbarism an excuse.

Just to elaborate, so I'm crystal clear on this- if the rights of the one are sacrificed for the "greater good", than every individual's rights are subject to the same violation and have no real foundation or meaning. It's tyranny.

931 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 3:00:02am
932 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 3:10:24am
933 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 3:16:20am
934 Mrseener  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 5:33:49am

933 ploome hineni


the Western World is better,, show me a civilization that affords the individual more, dignity, opportunity and freedom

You are starting from the premise that giving an individual dignity, opportunity and freedom is preferable to not. This seems self evident to you, but without religion, how can you justify it? Even in the Declaration of Independence, they said "endowed by their creator." This is the crux of the matter I was interested in hearing people's opinions. The original poster was saying without religion, how are we different than animals? Why should we have more rights than animals? Would a society that gives animals (and maybe plants and bacteria too) dignity, opportunity and freedom) be preferable to ours? PETA thinks so. In other words, does our superior brains give us superior inherent value? Why or why not?

anything that goes against "Western values" we automatically label as being not as good, or even as evil.....example please

Read what you just said above. Perfect example.

you are very immature

I'm not the one telling people FOAD. I'm trying to have a discussion. I'm sorry if it makes you uncomfortable. Don't participate if you don't want to.

935 Canoe Train  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 7:05:24am

Mrseener, you type that you're "just trying to have a discussion." In that case, I think it repulsive to continue a practice such as child marriage into times when the child is not even capable of bearing offspring, much less considering all of the ramifications of what marriage entails. I also consider it repulsive and barbaric when this practice is done for the purpose not of sharing one's life with another, or experiencing happy lives together, but rather for reasons of physical gratification and abuse.

In other words, I think child marriage is wrong.

Now, if the young individual in question were to be, say, 20 years old, that would be different, because at 20 the individual can relate to the world as an adult and can consider the possible ramifications and consequences of a given action. That is different, because it would be between one adult and another adult, and not between a child and an adult who clearly knows better and has ulterior, less than wholesome, motives.

936 Canoe Train  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 7:08:42am

I also wonder just where an organization like the PEO, or the Order of the Eastern Star, would stand on a topic like this. PEO was founded so that young women could have educational opportunities, and, judging by the rates of university attendance and graduation in North America, it may have outlived its usefulness here. Send them to Saudi Arabia.

937 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 7:32:20am

re: #934 Mrseener

You are starting from the premise that giving an individual dignity, opportunity and freedom is preferable to not. This seems self evident to you, but without religion, how can you justify it?

Are you seriously asking this, or are you just playing Devil's advocate?

938 Mrseener  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 8:00:54am

927 Wilderstad


You're defending this position are you not?

If your reading comprehension skills were as good as you claim, you would know that I am not. I'm playing devil's advocate for the purposes of having a discussion.

I'm saying the rights of the community to impose harm on others ( and both examples you present are clearly harm) should be limited severely even if it benefits others.

But you are implying that the rights of an individual to impose harm on a community should not be limited severely because it benefits the individual. So we should all selfishly pursue whatever we desire with little or no thought how it affects our communities or our families?

Western-minded people may automatically applaud the Bedouin girl who chose to pursue her own interests over those of her community possibly because they see little or no value in Bedouin society. So let's change the scenario a bit. Let's say the girl lived in the U.S. She's 18 and she has three siblings ages 8, 5, and 2, and an elderly grandparent lives with them in the house. The girl's parents die in a car crash the summer before the girl is going off to an ivy league with a full scholarship to pursue her dream of becoming a doctor. The parents had no life insurance or other assets. They have no family or friends that can help. Would you criticize the elderly grandparent for pressuring the girl to find a job, take care of and keep the family together?

As to your question: "Who determines what a individual's rights are, anyway?"
Woman, most cultures have the concept of :" Do as you would be done by" or the Golden Rule.
Your attempts at moral/cultural equivalence fail here.

It seems to me, though, that you are assuming all humans want (or should want) the same things. This is an extreme example, but I certainly wouldn't want a masochist to apply the golden rule to me.

Why don't we cut your achilles tendons and hobble you. It's after all for the greater good, so you can't run away so that you're an easier target for those poor disadvantaged criminals out there. They have needs too.

In Western societies, sometimes it seems criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens. It is already hard to protect ourselves against criminals without having our Achilles tendons cut.

939 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 8:04:44am

re: #938 Mrseener

I'm playing devil's advocate for the purposes of having a discussion.

That's what I thought. I'm not interested in playing games so consider yourself on GAZE.

940 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 8:10:58am

re: #938 Mrseener

Oh- and your analogy is bullshit. No one has the right to force the 18 year old American girl to provide for her siblings. We might all consider her selfish, but her grandparents asking her to make a sacrifice is not the same as imposing one upon her.

Back to GAZE

941 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 8:16:00am

Games creationists play.

942 Mrseener  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 8:27:30am

940 Sharmuta

Oh- and your analogy is bullshit.

I provided the analogy for the purposes of showing that we are culturally chauvinistic.

No one has the right to force the 18 year old American girl to provide for her siblings.

But we do have the right to force her grandparent into a nursing home and her siblings into separate foster homes.

We might all consider her selfish,

Be honest. Would you have ever thought to consider the Bedouin girl or her father selfish?

but her grandparents asking her to make a sacrifice is not the same as imposing one upon her.

We are all forced to make sacrifices. You're just so used to some of them you don't think twice about it. Personally, I think 99% of my taxes are wasted on stupid unnecessary things, but I'm forced to pay them anyway. That's annoying. But there are other sacrifices I willingly make because they benefit society as a whole, like I have to sacrifice my time when I stop at a red light or I obey the speed limit. I have to sacrifice my freedom and convenience for the sake of security (at airports for example).


Back to GAZE

Whatever...

943 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 8:44:06am
944 MrsEener  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 8:48:36am

941 Charles

Games creationists play.

I'm not playing games.

I come from a secular, liberal family. I was agnostic and very much into moral relativism. It made complete sense to me and to my group of friends. It was what we were taught in our homes, our schools, and of course in college.
And now I feel bombarded by it from the mainstream media. Good and evil depend on your point of view. It still makes sense to me if I leave religion out of the equation.

So I really am curious how people can be so rock solid sure about good and evil without religion.

So far I'm leaning toward the explanation that it is cultural chauvinism. "My society is the best so it is the yardstick by which good and evil are measured."

945 MrsEener  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 8:55:52am

943 ploome hineni

well...I admit, Western Values are the best........and some cultures are based on evil, based on theft and enslavement of others

Many of our founding fathers in the U.S. had slaves. And many argue we stole this whole country from the aboriginal inhabitants. That was what the U.S. was based on. OK, we've moved passed a lot of that. But still...

the best thing about western values, is tha if you find them not to your liking...you can always LEAVE

planes depart hourly for the shithole of YOUR dreams can share values and customs you prefer

What if no countries suit your liking? Then you become an anarchist and try to bring about a revolution to usher in your Utopian dream society.

946 MrsEener  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 9:15:27am

I wonder how long it would take for me to reach a karma of -100 from just trying to have a reasonable discussion.

I find it interesting that in two posts where people told me FOAD they received 2 updings. I used to have a lot more respect for you, Charles, and your blog. I'll still come here for interesting information, but you can go ahead and delete my account or ban me or whatever cause I'm not posting here anymore. Not that I expect you to be sad about that or anything. In fact, go ahead and cheer and pat yourselves on the back and enjoy your one-sided "discussions."

947 insomniac  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 9:45:50am
410 MJBrutus 1/14/09 11:00:59 am reply quote

.....you have to go back about 500 years. When the West was in it's Middle Ages (about 800 AD-1400 AD), the Islamic world was in fact the leader in science and also in toleration. Amazing, but true. They were well advanced in astronomy, math and most other scientific endeavors.

...."Islamic science" means mathematics, physics, chemistry, and the rest, produced within this Islamic civilization and expressed normally in Arabic, occasionally in one of the other languages of Islam. Much of this science.......is the work not of Muslims but of Christians and Jews living in Islamic lands and constituting a part of the Islamic civilization in which they were formed.
The Jews of Islam by Bernard Lewis, pp 5, 6

They were also surprisingly tolerant of other beliefs of people who lived among them. Certainly more so than almost all of the West.

You know, my brethren, that on account of our sins God has cast us into the midst of this people, the nation of Ishmael [the Arabs], who persecute us severely, and who devise ways to harm us and to debase us. This is as the Exalted had warned us: "Even our enemies themselves being judges" (Deut. 32:31). No nation has ever done more harm to Israel. None has matched it in debasing and humiliating us. None has been able to reduce us as they have.
Jewish Philosopher Maimonides in a letter to the Jews of Yemen in 1172

948 Claire  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 10:22:01am

re: #934 Mrseener

You are starting from the premise that giving an individual dignity, opportunity and freedom is preferable to not. This seems self evident to you, but without religion, how can you justify it?

The proof is in the pudding. You can easily see how well a population is thriving in one circumstance vs. the other, present day and throughout history. Dignity, opportunity and freedom have resulted in the healthiest, most innovative societies in history as measured by just about every metric you can imagine.

You ask what separates us from animals? Our brains, obviously, self-awareness, logic and ability to project actions and consequences. The only thing religion brings to this (IMHO) is a coercive effect based on what happens to you after death. The exact same ethics can be derived and applied without that particular threat a part of the equation. There are consequences for bad behavior in real time that are self evident as to their detrimental effects on one's well being, one's families well being and one's comminities well being as an interconnected system.

You must view societies as static. I don't at all. Even the Bedouin are going to be grabbed by the dish-dash as some point into the 21st century and their society is going to readjust to take the individual into consideration. All societies move toward this, some faster then others, but I think it's inevitable, though it's not always in a straight path. Women's status is a driver for these changes.

949 Wilderstad  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 1:22:08pm

re: #938 Mrseener

You're defending this position are you not?

If your reading comprehension skills were as good as you claim, you would know that I am not. I'm playing devil's advocate for the purposes of having a discussion.

Again with the snideness.

I'm saying the rights of the community to impose harm on others ( and both examples you present are clearly harm) should be limited severely even if it benefits others.

But you are implying that the rights of an individual to impose harm on a community should not be limited severely because it benefits the individual. So we should all selfishly pursue whatever we desire with little or no thought how it affects our communities or our families?

Now, I think your reading skills are impaired! No where in my sentence is the implication the individual may cause harm. The harm I speak of is real, physical, provable harm, or harm caused protecting and defending oneself from harm. not imagined slights, hurt feelings, or threat to the power or power structures that be.
I'm for individual bodily integrity and the right to determine one's own path and make one's own choices in life. Not a license to harm others by stealing, killing, assaulting or otherwise practicing criminal behaviours.

Western-minded people may automatically applaud the Bedouin girl who chose to pursue her own interests over those of her community possibly because they see little or no value in Bedouin society. So let's change the scenario a bit. Let's say the girl lived in the U.S. She's 18 and she has three siblings ages 8, 5, and 2, and an elderly grandparent lives with them in the house. The girl's parents die in a car crash the summer before the girl is going off to an ivy league with a full scholarship to pursue her dream of becoming a doctor. The parents had no life insurance or other assets. They have no family or friends that can help. Would you criticize the elderly grandparent for pressuring the girl to find a job, take care of and keep the family together?

I wouldn't blame the grandparent for asking, but at the same time, I wouldn't blame the girl if she chose otherwise. It's her life and her choice to say no, or make other arrangements, or come to a compromise.

As to your question: "Who determines what a individual's rights are, anyway?"
Woman, most cultures have the concept of :" Do as you would be done by" or the Golden Rule.
Your attempts at moral/cultural equivalence fail here.

It seems to me, though, that you are assuming all humans want (or should want) the same things. This is an extreme example, but I certainly wouldn't want a masochist to apply the golden rule to me.


In general most people want to be treated with: respect, kindness, thoughtfulness,politeness and without threat to their physical well being.
I am not assuming they all want the same things beyond these basics. You assume much.

Why don't we cut your achilles tendons and hobble you. It's after all for the greater good, so you can't run away so that you're an easier target for those poor disadvantaged criminals out there. They have needs too.


In Western societies, sometimes it seems criminals have more rights than law abiding citizens. It is already hard to protect ourselves against criminals without having our Achilles tendons cut.

What a sad attempt to avoid the question. You were speaking of greater good. If it meets your mythical society's need to have your tendons cut and give society's criminals a chance to meet their needs, no matter how violent, with you as a sacrificial member why then shouldn't you be the one sacrificed?

To answer that question and keep this brief, see Sharmutas post 923.

950 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 2:59:09pm

re: #946 MrsEener

Whatever. You originally jumped in to defend a creationist comment, and I prefer that people come out and say what they mean.

951 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Jan 15, 2009 7:29:27pm

re: #853 MJBrutus

Most of this at a time when Western science resembled that scene from, "Monty Python And The Holy Grail."

True. I remember Neil De Grasse Tyson at the 'Beyond Belief' lectures making this point about Islamic astronomy being way ahead of anything else at the time, resulting in them getting all the 'naming rights' for the stars they discovered. He went to describe how the caliph Al Ghazali put a stop to scientific innovation in the 11th century with his pronouncement that mathematics was the work of the devil (from his "The Incoherence of the Philosophers"), and that the Islamic world never recovered. To date only 2 nobel prizes have been won in the sciences by muslims. Seems like when Islam took an interest in science, it was very bad news for science. And the same is true of Christianity, although unlike Islam, it has grudgingly come to accomodate science - even today though, sadly, the example of the ID crowd shows that ancient habits have not yet died out completely.

952 wltzacrsstxs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:16:51pm

#916 mrseener

That's the kind of moral/cultural relativism that's going to get us all killed. The "oh, we can't judge other people" bs that has become a sacred cow to the left.

Newsflash: not all cultures are equal. There are good ones, there are bad ones, and yes, we can tell the difference. Treating evil people like a quaint little oddity in the zoo is not doing us or them any favors. If you want a quaint little oddity to keep as a lap dog, and enourage how badly they treat women with a "why we can't JUDGE anybody, that would be wrong, after all, not too long ago we were baaaaad too" - then why don't you focus on the Amish or the polygamists, who aren't actively trying to kill us.

People who throw acid in little girl's faces [Link: news.bbc.co.uk...] , mothers who lie to their little girls with the promise of a party, then hold them down while they are mutilated [Link: www.washingtonpost.com...] and people who kill a U.S. Servicewoman by dousing them in gasoline and setting them ablaze because - horrors - said woman had the nerve to speak to a man [Link: blog.wired.com...] deserve to perish from this earth. They will never let any of the rest of us live in peace.

953 rondeldon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:26:45pm

Sorry, I missed all the intelligent responses about evolutionist 1) having morals 2) how much of an idiot I am, and 2) Go _UCK Yourself arguments one often reads on DailyKos.

My point was not that you guys don't have morals and values, but that you inconsistently try to impose your morals and values on another society. You have no basis to say a 12 year old is too young to be married besides your own subjective laws. Those who believe we are evolved monkeys have no objective basis to stipulate it is morally wrong for a 40 year old to marry a 12 year old. You are reading your own subjective culture as the arbiter of a moral truth that doesn't exist if evolution is true. Even Richard Dawkins has admitted as much in his most honest moments.


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