Anti-Gay CA Republican Arrested for DWI After Leaving Gay Bar

US News • Views: 3,284

What is this, the third or fourth California Republican caught recently with his pants down?

California state Senator Roy Ashburn, a “family values” candidate and vehement opponent of gay rights, was arrested yesterday for driving under the influence — right after leaving a downtown Sacramento gay nightclub with an unidentified male in his state-owned vehicle. Oops.

Here’s a report from local TV station CBS13:

Youtube Video

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194 comments
1 iceweasel  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:50:19am

Family values!

2 Locker  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:51:54am

Hilarious. I said this on an earlier thread but Faces is more of a disco that is popular with the gay folks. That being said I normally wouldn’t expect to find a family values/anti-gay Republican hanging out there for a few beers. It would take a maximum of 3 seconds to see a man/man or girl/girl kiss, dance, hug or whatever.

3 Bubblehead II  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:52:20am

“with an unidentified male in his car.”

Wonder if his first name was Larry?

4 Spider Mensch  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:53:27am

it makes me think of the ex marine neighbor in American Beauty..hell it even looks a bit like that actor who played the role, who’s name escapes me, he’s actualy a very fine character actor….I better go imdb the movie..

5 Locker  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:54:27am

re: #2 Locker

My point about the club is that it’s a mixed crowd. Lots of gay folks but lots of straight folks as well. It’s a popular joint and I think they finished the pool out back.

[Link: www.faces.net…]

The drag show is great… so I’ve heard ;)

6 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:55:21am

re: #5 Locker

My point about the club is that it’s a mixed crowd. Lots of gay folks but lots of straight folks as well. It’s a popular joint and I think they finished the pool out back.

[Link: www.faces.net…]

The drag show is great… so I’ve heard ;)

It’s the DWI that worries me…

7 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:55:38am

the dumbest thing anyone can do is drive in Sacto under the influence. it’s a place with super aggressive DUI enforcement. just the other day, an NBA player for the Sacto Kings was busted (and suspended) for DUI. It’s also home base for MADD.

8 [deleted]  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:56:24am
9 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:56:33am

He was doing opposition research, of course.

And, as RememberTonyC says, it was real stupid of him. It’s like he wanted to get caught.

10 Ojoe  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:56:51am

GOP = toast, in general.

11 webevintage  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:57:47am

Of course he was.
Stories like this make me believe that there just might be a God up there….every time a family values guy gets caught doing teh!ghay an angel gets its wings.

Know what else proves the existence of God?
The fact that Palin could be shopping around a reality show.
Yeah, my prayers seem to have been answered.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

Please, oh please let someone pick this show up.

12 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:58:53am

re: #4 Spider Mensch

it makes me think of the ex marine neighbor in American Beauty..hell it even looks a bit like that actor who played the role, who’s name escapes me, he’s actualy a very fine character actor…I better go imdb the movie..

Chris Cooper. Great actor, overrated movie.

13 Ojoe  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:58:56am

re: #11 webevintage

the existence of Dolly Parton is a good one if you are looking for “proof” that there is a God.

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:59:06am

Ashburn is, however, the author of legislation to fight Valley Fever.

DWI still not OK.

15 webevintage  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:59:21am

re: #12 Mad Al-Jaffee

Chris Cooper. Great actor, overrated movie.

July Johnson.

16 iceweasel  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:59:31am

re: #9 Obdicut

He was doing opposition research, of course.

And, as RememberTonyC says, it was real stupid of him. It’s like he wanted to get caught.

There is a homophobe fundie organisation whose leader (poss also founder) has spent lots of times attending gay clubs, gay fetish conventions, and watching gay porn…all in the name of ‘research’. His excessively detailed descriptions of his ‘observations’ betray an…uh, overwhelming dedication, let’s say.

It’s not one of the big or famous organisations; I’ll see if I can remember the guy and dig up a link later.

17 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 10:59:34am

re: #11 webevintage


Know what else proves the existence of God?
The fact that Palin could be shopping around a reality show.
Yeah, my prayers seem to have been answered.
[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]

Please, oh please let someone pick this show up.

She’s gonna be on Jersey Shore?

18 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:00:48am

re: #16 iceweasel

There is a homophobe fundie organisation whose leader (poss also founder) has spent lots of times attending gay clubs, gay fetish conventions, and watching gay porn…all in the name of ‘research’. His excessively detailed descriptions of his ‘observations’ betray an…uh, overwhelming dedication, let’s say.

It’s not one of the big or famous organisations; I’ll see if I can remember the guy and dig up a link later.

I was going to ask if they needed a researcher, but my husband isn’t that desperate for work. Yet.

19 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:01:26am

re: #15 webevintage

July Johnson.

He was great in Lone Star, probably John Sayles’ best movie.

20 kingkenrod  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:02:33am

He’s not running for re-election…sounds like he decided to go scorched earth with his career…I do find it amusing that environment-friendly CA state govt is issuing 14 MPG Tahoes to its VIP’s. Hypocrisy abounds…

21 badger1970  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:02:59am

“What a piece of work is a man”.

There’s no way he’s going to be able to weasel out of this example of hypocrisy in motion.

22 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:03:35am

re: #6 SanFranciscoZionist

It’s the DWI that worries me…

Well, in all seriousness, that was my comment about it on the earlier thread. Whether he touts his family values or not in a hypocritcial way is small potatoes compared to the damage that could’ve been done physically to some poor soul crossing the street or trying to drive home to their family.

23 theliel  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:03:35am

re: #3 Bubblehead II

“with an unidentified male in his car.”

Wonder if his first name was Larry?

they were probobly just having a toe tapping good time a the club.

24 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:04:27am

I have “blued” my nic for anyone wanting to email me on the following - I have volunteered to help Mickey Kaus run for Senate here in California.

I don’t agree with him on everything, but I know him to be an earnest, level headed and honest person who would inject a bit of candor and integrity into what is shaping up to be a circus-of-mindless partisan platitudes and distortions that the coming California Senate Race is about to become.

Let me know if you want to help, either on the ground or electronically.

Charles - if this is bad form, let me know by deleting this post.

25 Spider Mensch  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:05:53am

I wonder if the unidentified male’s nickname is Johnnycakes??

/anyone get the reference??

26 Kragar  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:06:23am

Maybe he was doing some undercover work?

/nudge nudge, wink wink, Say no more, Squire!

27 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:07:07am

re: #25 Spider Mensch

I wonder if the unidentified male’s nickname is Johnnycakes??

/anyone get the reference??

Sopranos.

28 Skeetghazi  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:07:24am

Wow, add the passenger and the State owned vehicle, it’s a little worse than I thought!!

29 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:09:10am

re: #28 Stanley Sea

Wow, add the passenger and the State owned vehicle, it’s a little worse than I thought!!

I’m not sure why this is a problem. If more and more of the politicians who are gay or bi get outed, the closer we will come to having a society who’s government will not be so damn concerned what sexual goes on between consenting adults.

I want to see a lot more of this.

30 albusteve  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:09:24am

re: #25 Spider Mensch

I wonder if the unidentified male’s nickname is Johnnycakes??

/anyone get the reference??

or maybe Flapjack?

31 albusteve  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:10:21am

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

I’m not sure why this is a problem. If more and more of the politicians who are gay or bi get outed, the closer we will come to having a society who’s government will not be so damn concerned what sexual goes on between consenting adults.

I want to see a lot more of this.

OUT THE GAYS!

32 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:10:36am

Maybe he’ll take a wider stance on things now.

Seriously, this man needs therapy.

33 Kragar  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:10:37am

Now for the really telling question.

Does he like pie?

34 researchok  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:10:46am

Ashburn needs to resign. There should be no redemption for his kind of hypocrisy.

There are some things that cannot be fixed.

35 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:11:05am

Another fine argument for gay marriage. Let gay people be gay. This guy’s family has to deal the fallout from this crap. If he accepted himself and chosen to live a gay lifestyle he wouldn’t be ruining other people’s lives.

36 Skeetghazi  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:11:12am

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

I’m not sure why this is a problem. If more and more of the politicians who are gay or bi get outed, the closer we will come to having a society who’s government will not be so damn concerned what sexual goes on between consenting adults.

I want to see a lot more of this.

Oh I’m for getting rid of these hypocritical holier than thou types. But the vehicle and passenger make it harder for him to just say it was just a DUI, as I would expect.

37 albusteve  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:11:26am

re: #32 EmmmieG

Maybe he’ll take a wider stance on things now.

Seriously, this man needs therapy.

I imagine his wife will too

38 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:12:38am

re: #36 Stanley Sea

Oh I’m for getting rid of these hypocritical holier than thou types. But the vehicle and passenger make it harder for him to just say it was just a DUI, as I would expect.

No, no, no… let’s not get rid of them. let then keep outing themselves, but let them keep their jobs (unless we find them doing something outright illegal)… I want them to stay in office, and then maybe they will consider their stance the next time certain issues come up.

39 badger1970  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:13:04am

re: #37 albusteve

…or start a blog like Huffington. //

40 Kragar  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:13:16am

re: #37 albusteve

I imagine his wife will too

I’m hoping he comes home to his shit on the lawn and the locks changed.

41 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:13:53am

re: #35 Killgore Trout

Another fine argument for gay marriage. Let gay people be gay. This guy’s family has to deal the fallout from this crap. If he accepted himself and chosen to live a gay lifestyle he wouldn’t be ruining other people’s lives.

Or, he would. I mean, straight politicians can be open about their sexuality, and they still end up doing stupid shit and disgracing themselves and embarassing their families.

42 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:14:06am

re: #37 albusteve

I imagine his wife will too

That part always makes me wonder. Where does she think he is until 2 am?

“Honey, I have to work until very, very late, and no, I can’t do it here.”

He’s a state senator, it’s not like he has sensitive CIA data he can’t take out of a certain room.

43 RogueOne  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:14:13am

re: #39 badger1970

…or start a blog like Huffington. //

That was harsh and cold. I like it.

44 theheat  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:15:32am

Teh gay rays were too much for Ashburn, and sucked him in like a tractor beam. What, with their sexy music and fabulous clothes, is a homophobic father of four senator to do? It’s only obvious he was doing an undercover expose of they gay lifestyle, but once the liquor started flowing he lost his judgment.

No doubt, some intense counseling by his church and a few couples workshops (with his wife steadfast by his side) will suck the gay right back out of him. A few sheepish interviews from now, where he adamantly denies his love of penis and rhinestones, he’ll be right back in the Republican saddle.

The gay is like Satan. It weasels its way into godly, unsuspecting Republicans with the aid of music, fashion, and dollar well drinks. It’s like convincing them to believe in climate change or evolution, just lots sexier. Way sexier. In fact, if the next climate conference was held at a gay club during a drag show, I think more Republicans would get on board.

45 Sully33  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:15:49am

Bwaahaaahaaa…

46 Kragar  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:16:01am

re: #41 SanFranciscoZionist

Or, he would. I mean, straight politicians can be open about their sexuality, and they still end up doing stupid shit and disgracing themselves and embarassing their families.

And all it takes to do that is a hike thru the Appalachians.

47 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:16:38am

This story is really sad.
AGW deniers have nothing on these self-hating gays.

48 Skeetghazi  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:17:10am

re: #38 Walter L. Newton

No, no, no… let’s not get rid of them. let then keep outing themselves, but let them keep their jobs (unless we find them doing something outright illegal)… I want them to stay in office, and then maybe they will consider their stance the next time certain issues come up.

Nah, not rewarding hypocrisy. Resign now hypocrite!

49 Slap  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:18:27am

re: #19 Mad Al-Jaffee

If I had more than one upding, I’d give it. Lone Star was, imo, brilliant. And Sayles, despite being somewhat uneven at times, always is worth a look. (I think Eight Men Out was pretty damned fine, too — but the source material was so rich to begin with….)

50 cliffster  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:18:29am

Ever wonder how homosexuality even stays in existence? I mean, mating with the same sex means not having offspring with your genes, right?

How gay men perpetuate their genes

51 psyence  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:18:30am

re: #32 EmmmieG

Maybe he’ll take a wider stance on things now.

Seriously, this man needs therapy.

LOL.. Wide stance sounds familiar….

“Craig stated “that he has a wide stance when going to the bathroom and that his foot may have touched mine,” the report states. Craig also told the arresting officer that he reached down with his right hand to pick up a piece of paper that was on the floor.

“It should be noted that there was not a piece of paper on the bathroom floor, nor did Craig pick up a piece of paper,” the arresting officer said in the report.

52 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:19:02am

We already knew that the “conservative” (religious) Right are completely immune to the concepts of Sarcasm or Hypocrisy. So no, this does not surprise me in the least, most of them seem to be preaching “do as I say (or the “good book says”) and not as I actually do. The only difference between him and your average run of the mill hypocrite is that this one had the power to attempt to legislate his humanly unattainable and empathy free beliefs upon others.

53 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:19:23am

This episode is one of a great many that illustrate the following:

1) That Social Conservatives took over the California Republican Party and imposed litmus tests;

2) That the take over and litmus tests resulted in fewer and fewer Republicans being elected;

3) That many who simply opted to run under the litmus test were liars who were not “true believers” in a bizarrely Calvinist social agenda but ran in safe districts to get a cushy job protected by Gerrymandering;

4) That the fire breathers who still insist the litmus test stay in place know all of this but keep it in place because we here in California are always on the cusp of a Calvinist Revolution where our collective sin will be expunged and no Libural or Ghey will escape the hell fire, so it is all worth the trouble of ineffectiveness, losing elections, and having absolutely no ability to stop the California fiscal train wreck that Willie Brown set into motion 20 years ago and used to be kept in check by fiscal conservatives (who are all RINOs destined for the same nasty hell fire).

54 eastsider  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:19:30am

we’ll call this a solid 8.3 on the hypocrisy scale.

55 Racer X  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:19:53am

re: #45 Sully33

Bwaahaaahaaa…

Quite concur.

56 sakublock  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:20:31am

Be even funnier if he had one of those “bring out the gimp” outfits from pulp fiction.

57 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:20:47am

re: #48 Stanley Sea

Nah, not rewarding hypocrisy. Resign now hypocrite!

Ok… I don’t agree. You get rid of them, then the base tries even harder to get someone in office that is a stronger anti-gay politician.

58 Racer X  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:22:34am

I kinda agree with Walter on this one. If more in the GOP are exposed as being gay, it should help with the acceptance of homosexuals by the far right.

Now the drunk driving is another matter entirely, and this guy should be punished severely for that.

59 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:23:02am

re: #56 sakublock

Be even funnier if he had one of those “bring out the gimp” outfits from pulp fiction.

Maybe he can borrow O’Keefe’s?

60 Slap  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:24:07am

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

lol - yeah, and maybe one of ‘em will actually turn out to be STRAIGHT….

61 windsword  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:24:18am

These stories always rub me the wrong way. The way I see it, once you include pundits, religious figures, activists, politicians, whatever, there must be tens of thousands of outspoken “anti-gay rights” people (which I assume includes being against gay marriage). How many get outed every year? Two? At the most? But I’ll be damned if it hasn’t become almost a talking point by many supporters of gay rights.

Not to mention the (incorrect) assumption that one can’t be gay AND against gay marriage.
re: #50 cliffster
You’re assuming that homosexuality has its roots in genetics. This is a complicated issue, and there really isn’t much of a scientific consensus on it yet.

62 eastsider  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:25:05am

re: #58 Racer X

I kinda agree with Walter on this one. If more in the GOP are exposed as being gay, it should help with the acceptance of homosexuals by the far right.

Now the drunk driving is another matter entirely, and this guy should be punished severely for that.

I agree with you. But I would change the words “exposed as” to “proudly and openly”

The shift in acceptance of homosexuality has happened as more and more people have voluntarily (and involuntarily as you note) come out. Its one thing to hate on some scary group of guys that hangout at scary bars and do bad things. Its another thing entirely to hate on your friends, family, colleagues, and, in this case, members of your political party.

63 Cato the Elder  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:25:42am

Cue the Jimmy Swaggart come-to-Jesus video.

And it’s another victory for Homo Erectus! Damn that evolution!

64 albusteve  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:26:08am

re: #62 eastsider

I agree with you. But I would change the words “exposed as” to “proudly and openly”

The shift in acceptance of homosexuality has happened as more and more people have voluntarily (and involuntarily as you note) come out. Its one thing to hate on some scary group of guys that hangout at scary bars and do bad things. Its another thing entirely to hate on your friends, family, colleagues, and, in this case, members of your political party.

everybody is somebody else

65 windsagio  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:26:14am

re: #58 Racer X

I suspect that rather than helping acceptance, it’ll engender paranoia.

you have the “Wow, they’re EVERYWHERE”

and the “Oh no, they converted and destroyed another good man!”

66 Jaerik  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:27:08am

I used to think the “homophobic = must be gay” meme was trite and overplayed, but I’ve changed my mind.

It’s vitally important for people like this hypocritical douchebag, and folks like Ted Haggart (who’s “not gay,” by the way; he just “struggles with same sex attraction”) to define sexual orientation as a simple behavioral choice, and violently object to any legislation or expansion of civil rights that would imply it’s not.

That way, they can continue their repressed existence, and avoid the painful realization that they’re living a lie

67 eastsider  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:28:16am

re: #61 windsword

These stories always rub me the wrong way. The way I see it, once you include pundits, religious figures, activists, politicians, whatever, there must be tens of thousands of outspoken “anti-gay rights” people (which I assume includes being against gay marriage). How many get outed every year? Two? At the most? But I’ll be damned if it hasn’t become almost a talking point by many supporters of gay rights.

Not to mention the (incorrect) assumption that one can’t be gay AND against gay marriage.

You’re assuming that homosexuality has its roots in genetics. This is a complicated issue, and there really isn’t much of a scientific consensus on it yet.

and how many in those 10,000s are closeted as gay? The stories have resonance because of

1) the blatant hypocrisy…people love to catch a person in a “do as I say, not as I do” moment

2) Even a single outing serves as validation that the 10,000 are not monolithically heterosexual. If there are 2 who are dumb enough to get caught, there are certainly more who are smart enough to keep the secret.

So yeah, it might be overblown, but the point the story is making is generally correct and worth publicizing.

68 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:29:03am

re: #61 windsword

These stories always rub me the wrong way. The way I see it, once you include pundits, religious figures, activists, politicians, whatever, there must be tens of thousands of outspoken “anti-gay rights” people (which I assume includes being against gay marriage). How many get outed every year? Two? At the most? But I’ll be damned if it hasn’t become almost a talking point by many supporters of gay rights.

Not to mention the (incorrect) assumption that one can’t be gay AND against gay marriage.

You’re assuming that homosexuality has its roots in genetics. This is a complicated issue, and there really isn’t much of a scientific consensus on it yet.

And consider this. Here is an anti-gay politician who actually MAKES LAWS. He can do more good or damage than tens of thousands of anti-gay protestors, because he can ACT on their anti-gay sentiment.

I’m assuming that an adult that want to right to have sex and live with another consenting adult should be able to do so. I don’t give a fuck if it’s genetic or something that someone gets up one morning and decides to do.

69 eastsider  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:32:41am

re: #64 albusteve

everybody is somebody else

MIND = BLOWN

But yeah, your point is true. What shocks me is how easy it is for some to “otherize” groups of people. Just because they live somewhere else, go to a different church, have different color skin, do different things in a bedroom.

And once you’ve stripped away even a little bit of their humanity, you can blame them for your problems, label them as enemies, and bomb/shoot/lynch/deride/segregate to your hearts delight.

Its an important step in life, when you realize that everybody is a full blown human being. Unfortunately, some people never get there, and make a career out of dehumanizing and demonizing groups of people.

70 Gus  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:36:06am

Didn’t know about this last night.

Let’s see, Family Values, divorced, anti gay marriage, and now a DUI. Yep, fits the profile.

71 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:37:35am

Charles… video is not available…

72 windsword  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:37:37am

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

And consider this. Here is an anti-gay politician who actually MAKES LAWS. He can do more good or damage than tens of thousands of anti-gay protestors, because he can ACT on their anti-gay sentiment.

I’m assuming that an adult that want to right to have sex and live with another consenting adult should be able to do so. I don’t give a fuck if it’s genetic or something that someone gets up one morning and decides to do.


In California at least, the question of gay marriage is entirely out politicians hands. Arguably, activists have MORE power in changing the laws.

And the part about homosexuality and genetics was targeted towards cliffster, not commenters in general. Personally, I don’t think whether or not gay people were “born that way” has any barring on any political issues.

73 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:38:19am

Someone on an earlier thread pointed out that this isn’t a “gay bar.” Gays go there; apparently, so do lots of other people.

So what we know is that this guy left the bar with another guy. There’s nothing in the article that leads to a conclusion that either or both of them are gay.

Back when I was single, I used to go to bars with other men all the time. And, unfortunately, we often left together, as well, even though the whole point was to score. With women.

The DUI is certainly inexcusable, if it stands. But I think, once again, we’re seeing a rush to judgment on other issues, and a willingness to convict without benefit of actual evidence, that is disturbingly common and frequent. Even the DUI, at this point, is a charge - he hasn’t been convicted, he’s presumed innocent, and like everyone else he’s allowed his day in court.

There’ll be plenty of time to demonize and villify once actual facts are known and allegations proven. The lynch mob mentality on display here by some is extremely offputting.

74 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:38:24am

re: #72 windsword

In California at least, the question of gay marriage is entirely out politicians hands. Arguably, activists have MORE power in changing the laws.

And the part about homosexuality and genetics was targeted towards cliffster, not commenters in general. Personally, I don’t think whether or not gay people were “born that way” has any barring on any political issues.

There’s a bit more to gay legal issues than simply marriage. And at this point, it’s in the hands of the courts.

75 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:38:25am

re: #61 windsword

These stories always rub me the wrong way. The way I see it, once you include pundits, religious figures, activists, politicians, whatever, there must be tens of thousands of outspoken “anti-gay rights” people (which I assume includes being against gay marriage). How many get outed every year? Two? At the most? But I’ll be damned if it hasn’t become almost a talking point by many supporters of gay rights.

Not to mention the (incorrect) assumption that one can’t be gay AND against gay marriage.

That gets our “Most Confused Attempt to Spin” award for the day.

76 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:38:27am

re: #50 cliffster

Ever wonder how homosexuality even stays in existence? I mean, mating with the same sex means not having offspring with your genes, right?

How gay men perpetuate their genes

Sigh…really simple, between 1.0% and almost 3% of any given generation is going to be gay depending on what part of the world you live in. Science still has not shown a conclusive cause even after hundreds of genetic studies and hundreds more that dealt with enviroment and upbringing.

Studies on twins “suggest” that their “might” be a genetic component but have the problem that typically twins are also raised identically and in the same enviroment. So far the causes of natural attraction to the same sex remain elusive and hypothetical.

I really don’t need to know, I accept that some males are attracted to males just as much as I am atrracted to females and the same applies to some females who are attracted to others of their sex. The ONLY thing that makes this “evil” is adherence to certain outdated and basically irrelevant religious prohibitions.

They don’t have to “pass on their genes” they are just born, hell it wasn’t even possible for them to actually pass on their genes at all until just a couple of decades ago when invitro fertilization came along.

People are gay, or not, get over it already.

77 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:39:03am

re: #72 windsword

In California at least, the question of gay marriage is entirely out politicians hands. Arguably, activists have MORE power in changing the laws.

And the part about homosexuality and genetics was targeted towards cliffster, not commenters in general. Personally, I don’t think whether or not gay people were “born that way” has any barring on any political issues.

Then let’s just get down to brass tacks… is homosexuality a sin?

78 Yashmak  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:39:14am

What’s next…Barney Frank caught egging a gay pride march after leaving an Ethics Addicts Anonymous meeting?

79 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:39:21am

re: #68 Walter L. Newton

And consider this. Here is an anti-gay politician who actually MAKES LAWS. He can do more good or damage than tens of thousands of anti-gay protestors, because he can ACT on their anti-gay sentiment.

I’m assuming that an adult that want to right to have sex and live with another consenting adult should be able to do so. I don’t give a fuck if it’s genetic or something that someone gets up one morning and decides to do.

If it’s genetic, maybe stem cell research can find a cure!

///

80 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:39:53am

re: #73 SixDegrees

Someone on an earlier thread pointed out that this isn’t a “gay bar.” Gays go there; apparently, so do lots of other people.

So what we know is that this guy left the bar with another guy. There’s nothing in the article that leads to a conclusion that either or both of them are gay.

Back when I was single, I used to go to bars with other men all the time. And, unfortunately, we often left together, as well, even though the whole point was to score. With women.

The DUI is certainly inexcusable, if it stands. But I think, once again, we’re seeing a rush to judgment on other issues, and a willingness to convict without benefit of actual evidence, that is disturbingly common and frequent. Even the DUI, at this point, is a charge - he hasn’t been convicted, he’s presumed innocent, and like everyone else he’s allowed his day in court.

There’ll be plenty of time to demonize and villify once actual facts are known and allegations proven. The lynch mob mentality on display here by some is extremely offputting.

Agreed. If he’s cheating on someone, that’s his own affair. If he’s single and dating, which gender may make me snicker, based on his legislative record, but not my business.

Driving drunk on California roads, however, is NOT OK.

81 theheat  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:40:53am

re: #70 Gus 802

The next RNC Powerpoint presentation: How to Stay in the Closet. The playbook reads:
1. Denial
2. Deflection
3. Redemption
4. Condemnation
5. Re-election
5. (most important) Plain Brown Wrapper Gay Pr0n charged to debit cards your wife doesn’t know about… for “research” purposes

82 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:40:55am

re: #73 SixDegrees

Someone on an earlier thread pointed out that this isn’t a “gay bar.” Gays go there; apparently, so do lots of other people.

So what we know is that this guy left the bar with another guy. There’s nothing in the article that leads to a conclusion that either or both of them are gay.

Faces - Sacramento Wiki.

Billed as “Sacramento’s Premier Gay Nightclub” Faces certainly is the largest and most established gay venue in Sacramento. Faces features numerous bars and dance floors that attract different segments of Sacramento’s gay community. A new expansion of Faces was recently completed, expanding the club to two floors.

83 cliffster  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:41:20am

re: #76 ausador

alrighty then. Need that prescription refilled?

84 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:42:21am

re: #76 ausador

Sigh…really simple, between 1.0% and almost 3% of any given generation is going to be gay depending on what part of the world you live in. Science still has not shown a conclusive cause even after hundreds of genetic studies and hundreds more that dealt with enviroment and upbringing.

Studies on twins “suggest” that their “might” be a genetic component but have the problem that typically twins are also raised identically and in the same enviroment. So far the causes of natural attraction to the same sex remain elusive and hypothetical.

I really don’t need to know, I accept that some males are attracted to males just as much as I am atrracted to females and the same applies to some females who are attracted to others of their sex. The ONLY thing that makes this “evil” is adherence to certain outdated and basically irrelevant religious prohibitions.

They don’t have to “pass on their genes” they are just born, hell it wasn’t even possible for them to actually pass on their genes at all until just a couple of decades ago when invitro fertilization came along.

People are gay, or not, get over it already.

The question has been, if there is a genetic component, why is gayness so prevalent in the human gene pool? Some of the theories that have been come up with on that, one of which I think cliffster linked to—link went wrong for me—are really interesting from a human evolutionary perspective.

85 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:42:52am

re: #73 SixDegrees

That he’s anti-gay in the first place is pretty damn awful. That he’s whooping it up at a gay-friendly nightclub and then getting into a DUI on his way out— that’s jerkass behavior. I don’t care if he’s actually gay or not.

I do wish that everyone who was such a bigot towards gays (and any other group) had a simple, mystical penalty: not being able to enjoy a single thing produced by that group. You hate ‘em so much? You want them not to be part of mainstream culture? You can do without what they add to our culture and our world.

86 eastsider  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:43:22am

re: #73 SixDegrees

Someone on an earlier thread pointed out that this isn’t a “gay bar.” Gays go there; apparently, so do lots of other people.

So what we know is that this guy left the bar with another guy. There’s nothing in the article that leads to a conclusion that either or both of them are gay.

Back when I was single, I used to go to bars with other men all the time. And, unfortunately, we often left together, as well, even though the whole point was to score. With women.

The DUI is certainly inexcusable, if it stands. But I think, once again, we’re seeing a rush to judgment on other issues, and a willingness to convict without benefit of actual evidence, that is disturbingly common and frequent. Even the DUI, at this point, is a charge - he hasn’t been convicted, he’s presumed innocent, and like everyone else he’s allowed his day in court.

There’ll be plenty of time to demonize and villify once actual facts are known and allegations proven. The lynch mob mentality on display here by some is extremely offputting.

Good points. I’m guilty of “lynch mob” with my hypocrisy comments. The guy deserves a fair shake to explain himself for being at a gay-friendly bar and a court date for the DUI. For the record, I couldn’t care less that he was at a gay bar.

HOWEVER

I don’t like leaders who favor laws that restrict rights to a large group of people. His record is not in contention at all on that front, and so for that I say to him “you’re an insensitive bigot in the way of social equality.”

87 windsword  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:43:40am

re: #77 Walter L. Newton
Umm… no. It’s not. I’m also for gay rights.

Besides, people aren’t opposed to gay marriage because they’re religious, they’re opposed because they’re secretly gay, remember?

88 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:43:45am

re: #85 Obdicut

That he’s anti-gay in the first place is pretty damn awful. That he’s whooping it up at a gay-friendly nightclub and then getting into a DUI on his way out— that’s jerkass behavior. I don’t care if he’s actually gay or not.

I do wish that everyone who was such a bigot towards gays (and any other group) had a simple, mystical penalty: not being able to enjoy a single thing produced by that group. You hate ‘em so much? You want them not to be part of mainstream culture? You can do without what they add to our culture and our world.

You think this guy will really pine away and die if we take away his Sistine Chapel coffeetable books?

//

89 teleskiguy  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:43:49am

I still can’t wait ‘til Ryan Sorba has his embarrassing coming out!

90 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:44:21am

re: #88 SanFranciscoZionist

And his personal computer, don’t forget. Thank you, Mr. Turing.

91 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:44:23am

re: #85 Obdicut

That he’s anti-gay in the first place is pretty damn awful. That he’s whooping it up at a gay-friendly nightclub and then getting into a DUI on his way out— that’s jerkass behavior. I don’t care if he’s actually gay or not.

I do wish that everyone who was such a bigot towards gays (and any other group) had a simple, mystical penalty: not being able to enjoy a single thing produced by that group. You hate ‘em so much? You want them not to be part of mainstream culture? You can do without what they add to our culture and our world.

I don’t think that would be much of a punishment. There is plenty of creativity and innovation coming from all segments of society, regardless of their sexual preferences.

92 theheat  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:44:27am

re: #84 SanFranciscoZionist

Somewhat related, gender-bending frogs linked to pesticides.

93 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:44:52am

re: #87 windsword

Umm… no. It’s not. I’m also for gay rights.

Besides, people aren’t opposed to gay marriage because they’re religious, they’re opposed because they’re secretly gay, remember?

Best T-shirt to come out of the Prop 8 craziness: “Sooo—Which Sacrament Are We Going To Let The State Define Next?”

94 oldegeezr  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:45:06am
“What is this, the third or fourth California Republican caught recently with his pants down?”

Whatsa madda you…
Haven’t you ever heard of undercover opposition research…Breitbart is a past master of it.

It takes one to catch one!

95 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:45:27am

re: #89 teleskiguy

I still can’t wait ‘til Ryan Sorba has his embarrassing coming out!

That one I have suspicions about.

96 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:46:06am

re: #90 Obdicut

And his personal computer, don’t forget. Thank you, Mr. Turing.

Oh, God. Poor Turing.

97 cliffster  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:46:14am

re: #89 teleskiguy

I still can’t wait ‘til Ryan Sorba has his embarrassing coming out!

That dude keeps his p0rn stash locked down TIGHT.

98 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:46:25am

re: #91 Walter L. Newton

Doing without computers would be a pretty harsh punishment, I think.

99 Racer X  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:46:32am

#1 Daytime show = Ellen
#1 Nighttime show = American Idol with Ellen

America has less of a problem with homosexuals than some would have you believe.

100 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:46:53am

re: #87 windsword

Umm… no. It’s not. I’m also for gay rights.

Besides, people aren’t opposed to gay marriage because they’re religious, they’re opposed because they’re secretly gay, remember?

No… I don’t remember, since I have never said that, I don’t care and I am a atheist. I don’t judge a persons sexuality according to their opinions on sex.

Most of us forget that those are two different issues.

101 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:47:01am

re: #80 SanFranciscoZionist

Agreed. If he’s cheating on someone, that’s his own affair. If he’s single and dating, which gender may make me snicker, based on his legislative record, but not my business.

Driving drunk on California roads, however, is NOT OK.

It certainly isn’t, and not only in California. However, guilt is not yet established, and won’t be until trial. And often, at trial, the defendant in such cases is found not guilty. The police, after all, aren’t perfect.

Judgment will come, but it hasn’t arrived yet.

The drinking comments were largely tangential, and were included because they amplified my overall point. Of the two claims - being drunk and being gay - they’re the ones that are probably on firmer ground. Whether he was gay, or just leaving with his wing man, can’t really be determined from anything I’ve read. Like another article yesterday whose headline proclaimed that a religious group want to “stone the whale” that killed it’s trainer in Florida, the headline isn’t borne out by the facts presented.

102 albusteve  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:47:05am

re: #79 SixDegrees

If it’s genetic, maybe stem cell research can find a cure!

///

quick honey, where are my pills?

103 Gus  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:47:59am

Oh, that he just left Faces - Sacramento is new to me. Yeah, I suppose the 24 hour rule applies but until then here’s their Myspace page:

Faces Nightclub (Probably NSFW because of the background image.)

Regular web page: Faces Sacramento

Looks like someone else posted the web page.

104 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:48:04am

re: #96 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks for saving us from the Nazis, Mr. Turing. Now we shrink your balls off.

Ungrateful doesn’t even begin to cover it.

105 Racer X  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:48:18am

re: #102 albusteve

quick honey, where are my pills?

Fiagra?

106 eastsider  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:48:34am

re: #94 oldegeezr

Whatsa madda you…
Haven’t you ever heard of undercover opposition research…Breitbart is a past master of it.

It takes one to catch one!

Patience sir! In a week we’ll get the edited video of the official dressed in a village person costume with patrons of the bar confessing to breaking into schools to infect the kiddies with “teh gay” under the auspices of a society benefiting movement.

/

107 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:48:54am

re: #99 Racer X

#1 Daytime show = Ellen
#1 Nighttime show = American Idol with Ellen

America has less of a problem with homosexuals than some would have you believe.

They’re just studying Ellen closely to find out the secret of getting a babe like Portia.

108 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:49:05am

re: #82 Charles

That isn’t what an earlier poster, who lives in the neighborhood, says. And it doesn’t alter my point, either.

110 drcordell  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:49:47am

re: #99 Racer X

#1 Daytime show = Ellen
#1 Nighttime show = American Idol with Ellen

America has less of a problem with homosexuals than some would have you believe.

This is true. But tolerating open homosexuality in mass media is a completely different issue than preventing homosexuals from having fundamental rights. Black minstrel shows were popular in an era when blacks were second-class citizens.

111 Racer X  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:49:51am

re: #107 SanFranciscoZionist

They’re just studying Ellen closely to find out the secret of getting a babe like Portia.

Is she still with Portia?

Please tell me I have a shot again.

112 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:50:23am

re: #108 SixDegrees

That isn’t what an earlier poster, who lives in the neighborhood, says. And it doesn’t alter my point, either.

The club bills itself as “Sacramento’s Premier Gay Nightclub.” I don’t know what more they have to do to qualify as a gay bar.

113 iceweasel  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:50:59am

re: #108 SixDegrees

That isn’t what an earlier poster, who lives in the neighborhood, says. And it doesn’t alter my point, either.

Uh, that would be Locker, who also posted above. Maybe you should check that out, as well as Charles’s links and Gus802’s.

114 Jimmah  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:51:10am

re: #101 SixDegrees

Like another article yesterday whose headline proclaimed that a religious group want to “stone the whale” that killed it’s trainer in Florida, the headline isn’t borne out by the facts presented.

Bollocks. Replied to you on that in the thread concerned:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

115 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:51:40am

re: #103 Gus 802

Oh, that he just left Faces - Sacramento is new to me. Yeah, I suppose the 24 hour rule applies but until then here’s their Myspace page:

Faces Nightclub (Probably NSFW because of the background image.)

Regular web page: Faces Sacramento

Looks like someone else posted the web page.

Yep. It’s a gay bar. The MySpace page leaves, uh, very little doubt.

116 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:51:44am

re: #109 Walter L. Newton

Making threats? Whatever, Walter.

The modern computer comes hugely from Turing’s work. My ‘mystical’, and obviously impossible ‘punishment’ is not meant as a ‘threat’— which is an absurdly dramatic interpretation— but as a thought exercise to get people to think about how much homosexuals have contributed to our culture.

Oh, and Liebnitz never wrote out the math for true Turing machines. He had the idea, but he never got there completely. He was awesome, though.

117 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:52:02am

re: #86 eastsider

Good points. I’m guilty of “lynch mob” with my hypocrisy comments. The guy deserves a fair shake to explain himself for being at a gay-friendly bar and a court date for the DUI. For the record, I couldn’t care less that he was at a gay bar.

HOWEVER

I don’t like leaders who favor laws that restrict rights to a large group of people. His record is not in contention at all on that front, and so for that I say to him “you’re an insensitive bigot in the way of social equality.”

I completely agree. I’m not even remotely arguing in favor of his proposed policies; I’m not even arguing in favor of him, period. My point was the rush to judgment in the absence of evidence, and nothing more or less than that.

118 theheat  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:52:07am

re: #113 iceweasel

And they really do have dollar well drinks! I knew it!

119 cliffster  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:52:28am

I didn’t even know bars had sex

120 Gus  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:52:46am

re: #115 Charles

Yep. It’s a gay bar. The MySpace page leaves, uh, very little doubt.

Yep, “all 13 inches of it” as Samantha Bee on the Daily Show would say. ;)

121 eastsider  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:52:56am

re: #112 Charles

The club bills itself as “Sacramento’s Premier Gay Nightclub.” I don’t know what more they have to do to qualify as a gay bar.

Maybe the representative was simply unaware and mistaken.

I know! He should propose a bill that all gay bars, and gay men, should be legally required to announce their affiliation. Perhaps a rainbow star affixed to their lapels.

/godwin

122 oldegeezr  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:52:58am

re: #106 eastsider

Like I said…!

123 iceweasel  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:53:02am

re: #118 theheat

And they really do have dollar well drinks! I knew it!

Loved your earlier comment, btw. teh ghey ray alone was priceless. (that was you, right?)

124 Skeetghazi  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:53:17am

re: #103 Gus 802

Oh, that he just left Faces - Sacramento is new to me. Yeah, I suppose the 24 hour rule applies but until then here’s their Myspace page:

Faces Nightclub (Probably NSFW because of the background image.)

Regular web page: Faces Sacramento

Looks like someone else posted the web page.

Oh yeah!!

125 Jimmah  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:53:37am

re: #112 Charles

The club bills itself as “Sacramento’s Premier Gay Nightclub.” I don’t know what more they have to do to qualify as a gay bar.

“Has it been established beyond a shadow of a doubt that the “gay”referenced here is intended in the profane modern sense that some people of a bohemian persuasion are apt to do? Maybe its just a happy place for people to drink in?”///

126 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:54:25am

re: #125 Jimmah

It could also be a bar for celibate gay men. That hasn’t been disproven either.

127 eastsider  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:54:31am

re: #118 theheat

And they really do have dollar well drinks! I knew it!

And so its proven: Gays=Communists.

Glenn Beck was right all along.

128 Gus  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:54:55am

re: #113 iceweasel

Uh, that would be Locker, who also posted above. Maybe you should check that out, as well as Charles’s links and Gus802’s.

Maybe fire inspections are a hobby of Roy Ashburn. When asked about his being at the Faces nightclub in Sacramento Senator Ashburn defended himself by saying, “I was only there to perform a personal fire inspection.”

//

129 iceweasel  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:56:04am

re: #128 Gus 802

Maybe fire inspections are a hobby of Roy Ashburn. When asked about his being at the Faces nightclub in Sacramento Senator Ashburn defended himself by saying, “I was only there to perform a personal fire inspection.”

//

“Let’s not ‘rush’ to judgement…”
//

130 drcordell  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:56:17am

re: #127 eastsider

And so its proven: Gays=Communists.

Glenn Beck was right all along.

From each according to his own sobriety, to each according to his own need.

/

131 windsword  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:56:32am

re: #100 Walter L. Newton

No… I don’t remember, since I have never said that, I don’t care and I am a atheist. I don’t judge a persons sexuality according to their opinions on sex.

Most of us forget that those are two different issues.


Am I to understand that in asking me whether or not homosexuality is a sin, you weren’t implying that my defense of gay rights opponents was religiously based? Because that was certainly the impression I got. If it wasn’t, I apologize.

132 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:56:35am

re: #112 Charles

The club bills itself as “Sacramento’s Premier Gay Nightclub.” I don’t know what more they have to do to qualify as a gay bar.

I’ll happily concede the point, if you think it’s important. It doesn’t change the point of my original post in any way.

133 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:56:40am

re: #116 Obdicut

Making threats? Whatever, Walter.

The modern computer comes hugely from Turing’s work. My ‘mystical’, and obviously impossible ‘punishment’ is not meant as a ‘threat’— which is an absurdly dramatic interpretation— but as a thought exercise to get people to think about how much homosexuals have contributed to our culture.

Oh, and Liebnitz never wrote out the math for true Turing machines. He had the idea, but he never got there completely. He was awesome, though.

The fact that he was gay has nothing to do with what he created, and there was almost 400 years of computational concepts and actual machines. Turing was a big part of the recent puzzle, but not the only part, and even if he didn’t even exist, there were many other people who could have stepped into the place he held.

Like I say, it cheapens gay right if you make this punitive statement “I do wish that everyone who was such a bigot towards gays (and any other group) had a simple, mystical penalty: not being able to enjoy a single thing produced by that group.”

134 Mad Al-Jaffee  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:57:03am

This reminds me of one of my favorite South Park episode, where Butters secretly sees his father “wrestling” with other men and going to a movie called “Fisting Firefighters.”

135 theheat  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:57:14am

re: #123 iceweasel

Yeah. I’ve done my own ‘research’ of gay clubs and drag shows. The dollar well drinks was an educated guess. But driving drunk? Never cool.

136 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:58:06am

re: #131 windsword

Am I to understand that in asking me whether or not homosexuality is a sin, you weren’t implying that my defense of gay rights opponents was religiously based? Because that was certainly the impression I got. If it wasn’t, I apologize.

No… I didn’t. But I can see how you would take it that way. Sorry.

137 theheat  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:58:39am

re: #127 eastsider

Pie and well drinks. Satan’s elixir.

138 Gus  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:58:54am

re: #129 iceweasel

“Let’s not ‘rush’ to judgement…”
//

True!1111! It’s also possible he was there on a “new media” undercover assignment for Big Government.

/

139 oldegeezr  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:00:16pm

re: #127 eastsider

…and #118 theheat…

As far as drinkin’ on the job goes…Sam Spade did it all the time…even kept a bottle and a small fruit jar in his desk…

Helps yah keep yer edge…!
If you know what I mean…?

140 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:00:53pm

re: #116 Obdicut

Making threats? Whatever, Walter.

The modern computer comes hugely from Turing’s work. My ‘mystical’, and obviously impossible ‘punishment’ is not meant as a ‘threat’— which is an absurdly dramatic interpretation— but as a thought exercise to get people to think about how much homosexuals have contributed to our culture.

Oh, and Liebnitz never wrote out the math for true Turing machines. He had the idea, but he never got there completely. He was awesome, though.

And to correct a fact, you already know that Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse had more to do with breaking the Enigma code than anyone.

141 iceweasel  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:01:03pm

re: #138 Gus 802

True!1111! It’s also possible he was there on a “new media” undercover assignment for Big Government.

/

Release the unedited tapes!
Because i definitely want to see the outfits.
/

142 Gus  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:02:40pm

re: #141 iceweasel

Release the unedited tapes!
Because i definitely want to see the outfits.
/

Hard hat, sailor’s cap, or a cowboy hat?

/

143 Jimmah  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:03:37pm

re: #129 iceweasel

“Let’s not ‘rush’ to judgement…”
//

That’s a Karl Popper quote, right?

144 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:03:50pm

lol

145 theheat  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:06:15pm

re: #139 oldegeezr

Wasn’t Sam Spade was self employed? There are days when that will drive you to drink. You’re just not supposed to actually drive afterward. Most film noir characters never did their own driving, anyway, as witnessed by how they’d maintain a conversation, but never actually look at the road.

146 theheat  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:06:51pm

re: #142 Gus 802

Village People!

147 webevintage  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:10:12pm

I posted and then went away to piss off my dogs by giving them baths, but while I was bathing the herd I was thinking how sad it is that in 2010 gays/lesbians/bisexuals feel the need to sneak around.

Not that a hypocrite does not deserve a good mocking because, yeah, they do, but that there are so many people out there living lives that are basically a lie and they do not feel they can openly be whomever they are.

It sucks and it contributes to so much pain for so many people.

148 darthstar  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:10:53pm

Ha! I knew about the DUI, but I didn’t realize he was hanging out at Faces…which, I will admit, was a fun club to go dancing at, even as a straight guy…back when I lived in Sacramento.

149 oldegeezr  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:13:01pm

re: #145 theheat

You never asked me what the “small fruit jar” was for…?

Ok, ok, I’ll tell you…his office was in the low rent district and there was no rest room on the same floor.

Sunshine…at 2AM on a very cold, damp, dreary, dark night…!

150 iceweasel  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:13:07pm

re: #143 Jimmah

That’s a Karl Popper quote, right?

This is just one of many reasons why I love you so.
[insert little line of hearts]

151 Jimmah  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:16:35pm

re: #150 iceweasel

This is just one of many reasons why I love you so.
[insert little line of hearts]

152 Jimmah  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:17:30pm

re: #150 iceweasel

Youtube Video
153 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:18:41pm

re: #133 Walter L. Newton

Way to miss the point.

154 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:20:00pm

re: #140 Walter L. Newton

Actually, even in those books, Waterhouse didn’t break Enigma. That had already been done when he arrived at Bletchley.

155 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:20:04pm

Another one? I’ve lost count.

156 Skeetghazi  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:20:17pm

re: #152 Jimmah

[Video]

Jimmah, hope you are getting your arse to NY soon.

157 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:31:35pm

All I can say is HAHAHAHAHA

158 Lanzman  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:37:39pm

I love these kinds of stories. ^_^

159 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 12:59:54pm

The hates the gheys cause … cause…

Self loathing assholes.

160 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:00:05pm

re: #148 darthstar

Ha! I knew about the DUI, but I didn’t realize he was hanging out at Faces…which, I will admit, was a fun club to go dancing at, even as a straight guy…back when I lived in Sacramento.

No, that’s not possible. Faces is, apparently, a gay bar. Straight people couldn’t have danced there.

/

161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:03:20pm

Wonder if his “Ash-burned”.

162 What, me worry?  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:07:32pm

My favorite part of this article:

I am deeply sorry for my actions and offer no excuse for my poor judgment….

Deeply sorry for his actions or deeply sorry he got caught? His “confession” shouldn’t be accepted because he doesn’t mean it. Oh, he certainly is sorry he got caught, but anyone who rambles on about the evils of homosexuality and turns out to be gay OR hangs out in a gay bar is a manipulator. If he did something out of ignorance, it would be a different story. And drinking and driving is so very 1980.

My mother sent me a story about a Polish neo-Nazi who after finding out he had Jewish relatives, converted to Judaism and is now Orthodox. No one had to “catch” him at anything. He wasn’t humiliated into making his choice other than the shame he felt when he found out his roots. His sorry is a true change of heart. Not one forced upon him by the camera and public opinion.

Tiger Woods would have gone on his merry way, screwing countless porn stars if he didn’t get caught. He didn’t know that was wrong? No, he just didn’t care. Ashburn didn’t care.

163 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:08:20pm

re: #157 LudwigVanQuixote

All I can say is HAHAHAHAHA

I will join you in the lulz :D

164 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:11:22pm

re: #162 marjoriemoon

My favorite part of this article:

Deeply sorry for his actions or deeply sorry he got caught? His “confession” shouldn’t be accepted because he doesn’t mean it. Oh, he certainly is sorry he got caught, but anyone who rambles on about the evils of homosexuality and turns out to be gay OR hangs out in a gay bar is a manipulator. If he did something out of ignorance, it would be a different story. And drinking and driving is so very 1980.

My mother sent me a story about a Polish neo-Nazi who after finding out he had Jewish relatives, converted to Judaism and is now Orthodox. No one had to “catch” him at anything. He wasn’t humiliated into making his choice other than the shame he felt when he found out his roots. His sorry is a true change of heart. Not one forced upon him by the camera and public opinion.

Tiger Woods would have gone on his merry way, screwing countless porn stars if he didn’t get caught. He didn’t know that was wrong? No, he just didn’t care. Ashburn didn’t care.

I read that story about the Pole. Pretty amazing story. And I agree he’s sorry because he got caught. I feel bad for his family of course since this no doubt will be tough on his family.

165 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:11:52pm

re: #132 SixDegrees

I’ll happily concede the point, if you think it’s important. It doesn’t change the point of my original post in any way.

Well, since you’re questioning my description of Faces as a “gay bar” in the title of the post, yes, I thought I should point out that the description is completely accurate, and that the club advertises itself as a gay nightclub.

re: #160 SixDegrees

No, that’s not possible. Faces is, apparently, a gay bar. Straight people couldn’t have danced there.

/

And it’s rather unlikely that a married “family values” GOP politician with four kids would be hanging out at a place like that for completely innocent reasons.

166 wee fury  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:12:50pm

Perhaps he was doing research.

167 wee fury  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:13:31pm

/ (forgot it)

168 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:14:15pm

re: #99 Racer X

#1 Daytime show = Ellen
#1 Nighttime show = American Idol with Ellen

America has less of a problem with homosexuals than some would have you believe.

ahahahaha yes, they’re totally fine with applauding when we do a little softshoe, a little fiddle playin’, there’s just this little problem with great big hunks of the republican party not wanting us anywhere near a school…

America also didn’t have much of a problem with blacks in the 1960s, because hey! I Spy!

169 What, me worry?  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:23:52pm

re: #166 wee fury

Perhaps he was doing research.

lol I don’t think you needed the tag, but then I’m pretty anti-tag.

Of course, now that I said that, I wouldn’t be caught dead in a TAG BAR! HA!

170 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:24:59pm

re: #165 Charles

And it’s rather unlikely that a married “family values” GOP politician with four kids would be hanging out at a place like that for completely innocent reasons.

So far, we’ve had two posters claiming straights hang there, as well as gays. Frankly, this matches my own experience in “gay” bars; it’s a mixed bag.

But as I said - I’m happy to concede the point if you think it’s that important. It doesn’t affect the point I was making in my original post in any way, even if they card customers at the entrance and turn away all straights.

171 mich-again  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:25:45pm

Did someone say Gay Bar?

Not every thread do I get to work in an Electric Six song. Ha.

Youtube Video
172 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:26:49pm

re: #111 Racer X

Is she still with Portia?

Please tell me I have a shot again.

Sorry. As far as I know, they’re still wildly happy together.

173 What, me worry?  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:31:31pm

re: #170 SixDegrees

So far, we’ve had two posters claiming straights hang there, as well as gays. Frankly, this matches my own experience in “gay” bars; it’s a mixed bag.

But as I said - I’m happy to concede the point if you think it’s that important. It doesn’t affect the point I was making in my original post in any way, even if they card customers at the entrance and turn away all straights.

Hmmm… A “Family Values” candidate shouldn’t be anywhere near a gay bar. He shouldn’t be anywhere near a dance club without his wife either. If he’s going to preach all those lovely family values with wifey and kiddies at his side, he shouldn’t be drunk and dancing up a storm without his wife.

I’da taken a golf club to his ass.

174 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:33:12pm

re: #173 marjoriemoon

Hmmm… A “Family Values” candidate shouldn’t be anywhere near a gay bar. He shouldn’t be anywhere near a dance club without his wife either. If he’s going to preach all those lovely family values with wifey and kiddies at his side, he shouldn’t be drunk and dancing up a storm without his wife.

I’da taken a golf club to his ass.

I’d suggest that you read my original post. Some of the earlier follow-ups might be worthwhile, too.

175 mich-again  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:33:13pm

Maybe he was just a wingman?
/

176 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 1:38:34pm

Hey, hey, hey! Even anti-gay Republicans need to get their groove on.
Use condoms Roy. Safe sex = the best sex.

177 What, me worry?  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 2:08:58pm

re: #174 SixDegrees

I’d suggest that you read my original post. Some of the earlier follow-ups might be worthwhile, too.

I read it. I don’t agree with you.

As other posters already said, He, this bigoted man who makes anti-gay statements, shouldn’t be anywhere near a gay bar. But he is probably gay. Most of these douchebags are closet cases.

I don’t know if you’re married with children, but I don’t know any hetrosexual married men with children who go to gay bars. Single going dancing? Totally different story. And that only really applies if you’re not a Senator harping about the evils of homosexuality. In fact, most married men I know go to sports bars if any bars. Maybe strip clubs if their wives don’t know. They ain’t going to a dance/night club without their wives. In fact, had it been a strip club, it would have been just as scandalous. All he would need is a meth dealer hiding in his car.

He wasn’t there just to help a friend, pick up a friend, whatever. He already apologized for his indiscretion.

178 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 2:47:39pm

re: #170 SixDegrees

So far, we’ve had two posters claiming straights hang there, as well as gays. Frankly, this matches my own experience in “gay” bars; it’s a mixed bag.

But as I said - I’m happy to concede the point if you think it’s that important. It doesn’t affect the point I was making in my original post in any way, even if they card customers at the entrance and turn away all straights.

There’s a lesbian bar in SE Portland that the chef I know hangs at a lot. He’s a straight guy, and welcome there, but it’s DEFFFFINITELY a lesbian bar, and not someplace an anti-gay GOP congressman would be welcome. ;-)

179 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 2:51:58pm

re: #177 marjoriemoon

I read it. I don’t agree with you.

As other posters already said, He, this bigoted man who makes anti-gay statements, shouldn’t be anywhere near a gay bar. But he is probably gay. Most of these douchebags are closet cases.

I don’t know if you’re married with children, but I don’t know any hetrosexual married men with children who go to gay bars. Single going dancing? Totally different story. And that only really applies if you’re not a Senator harping about the evils of homosexuality. In fact, most married men I know go to sports bars if any bars. Maybe strip clubs if their wives don’t know. They ain’t going to a dance/night club without their wives. In fact, had it been a strip club, it would have been just as scandalous. All he would need is a meth dealer hiding in his car.

He wasn’t there just to help a friend, pick up a friend, whatever. He already apologized for his indiscretion.

That’s all very interesting, and I agree with a good deal of it. But it doesn’t have anything to do with what I was talking about.

180 celticdragon  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 3:08:01pm

re: #9 Obdicut

He was doing opposition research, of course.

And, as RememberTonyC says, it was real stupid of him. It’s like he wanted to get caught.

I’m sure he was “witnessing the word of God” or some such…heh!

181 celticdragon  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 3:16:13pm

re: #140 Walter L. Newton

And to correct a fact, you already know that Lawrence Pritchard Waterhouse had more to do with breaking the Enigma code than anyone.

Fail.

There should be no question in anyone’s mind that Turing’s work was the biggest factor in Hut 8’s success. In the early days he was the only cryptographer who thought the problem worth tackling and not only was he primarily responsible for the main theoretical work within the Hut but he also shared with Welchman and Keen the chief credit for the invention of the Bombe. It is always difficult to say that anyone is absolutely indispensable but if anyone was indispensable to Hut 8 it was Turing. The pioneer’s work always tends to be forgotten when experience and routine later make everything seem easy and many of us in Hut 8 felt that the magnitude of Turing’s contribution was never fully realised by the outside world.
—Alexander, Sir C. Hugh O’D. Cryptographic History of Work on the German Naval Enigma. The National Archives, Kew, Reference HW 25/1.

182 Obdicut  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 3:18:15pm

re: #181 celticdragon

Waterhouse is a fictional character. But Walter’s wrong even in the context of the book. He broke a lot of stuff, but not Enigma.

183 mr.JA  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 3:38:21pm

re: #76 ausador

Sigh…really simple, between 1.0% and almost 3% of any given generation is going to be gay depending on what part of the world you live in. Science still has not shown a conclusive cause even after hundreds of genetic studies and hundreds more that dealt with enviroment and upbringing.

Studies on twins “suggest” that their “might” be a genetic component but have the problem that typically twins are also raised identically and in the same enviroment. So far the causes of natural attraction to the same sex remain elusive and hypothetical.

I really don’t need to know, I accept that some males are attracted to males just as much as I am atrracted to females and the same applies to some females who are attracted to others of their sex. The ONLY thing that makes this “evil” is adherence to certain outdated and basically irrelevant religious prohibitions.

They don’t have to “pass on their genes” they are just born, hell it wasn’t even possible for them to actually pass on their genes at all until just a couple of decades ago when invitro fertilization came along.

People are gay, or not, get over it already.

It is an interesting question actually. There’s an other hypothesis that was published 2 years ago, that argued that woman with a high fecundity had more chance of getting homosexual sons. This would indicate that the genes responsible for homosexuality would be evolutionary good if it ends up in a woman, but have other consequences if it would end up in a man. It is most likely a complex, multi-gene trait combined with strong environmental effects. But homosexuality has definitely evolved, otherwise there wouldn’t be homosexuality in the animal kingdom, and as a matter of fact, there is…

184 What, me worry?  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 3:43:30pm

re: #179 SixDegrees

That’s all very interesting, and I agree with a good deal of it. But it doesn’t have anything to do with what I was talking about.

Not what you’re talking about? Maybe you’re talking about… pie? And I missed it?

You were trying to say that the man doesn’t have to be gay because straight people also go to gay clubs for music, dancing, etc. and I responded to that. You said,

My point was the rush to judgment in the absence of evidence, and nothing more or less than that.

which you repeated in various forms. So if there is another point, you can say it.

185 Kruk  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 4:07:33pm

It is not right to gloat. It is not right to gloat. It is not right to gloat.

Oh, the hell with it.

Muahahahahahhahaha!

186 Yashmak  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 4:27:12pm

re: #115 Charles

Yep. It’s a gay bar. The MySpace page leaves, uh, very little doubt.

I could’ve told you that. :) Even though I live a city away from Sacto, it’s been public knowledge for YEARS.

187 Yashmak  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 4:34:52pm

re: #170 SixDegrees

So far, we’ve had two posters claiming straights hang there, as well as gays. Frankly, this matches my own experience in “gay” bars; it’s a mixed bag.

Let me make myself a 3rd. I’ve gone to a couple of gay bars with friends, even though I’m not gay.

But it should also be noted that I’ve never publicly expressed anti-gay sentiment, or led a ‘family values’ sort of political campaign, etc. etc. If I was an elected official who had done so, I would ABSOLUTELY not be caught at a gay nightclub…because one of only three things would be thought of me if I were.

1) I was actually gay.
2) I was incredibly stupid.
3) Both 1) and 2)

188 William of Orange  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 4:59:56pm

Video is pulled by CBS….

Roy Ashburn. So people are asking for it, with a name like that….

189 SixDegrees  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 6:05:10pm

re: #184 marjoriemoon

which you repeated in various forms. So if there is another point, you can say it.

I’ll direct you, one more time, to my original post.

Beyond that, I tire of repeating myself if you’re not willing to listen, and are going to insist on hearing only what you want to hear instead of what was actually said.

On another note, and not related to your post: the outright homophobia being expressed here is astonishing, and disturbing. Even more so given that it’s emanating from the side of the ideological spectrum I would least expect to find it.

190 MartiansAteMyCat  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 7:14:03pm

re: #16 iceweasel

There is a homophobe fundie organisation whose leader (poss also founder) has spent lots of times attending gay clubs, gay fetish conventions, and watching gay porn…all in the name of ‘research’. His excessively detailed descriptions of his ‘observations’ betray an…uh, overwhelming dedication, let’s say.

It’s not one of the big or famous organisations; I’ll see if I can remember the guy and dig up a link later.

His name is Peter LaBarbera, head of Americans For “Truth” About Homosexuality. (Quotes are mine.)

Not only does the excellent blog Box Turtle Bulletin have an award satirically named after him, but just last year, he decided to email an unprovoked attack against a gay man who was getting married in Connecticut—legally.

He is a nasty little man and a real piece of work.

191 idioma  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 7:39:51pm

This idea that “outing” more republicans will somehow help promote gay rights is completely diluted. Ted Haggard was outed in arguably the most definitive way possible. Today, he is still the same anti-gay bible thumping idiot he has always been. He is trying desperately to convince the entire world that he is not gay - he just has occasionally uncontrollable impulses to to gay things.

How many of the world’s strongest opponents of gay rights need to be outed before we are willing to admit that anti-gay sentiments transcend personal knowledge?

192 William of Orange  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 7:47:07pm

This one still works. (For the time being….)

Youtube Video
193 mikhailtheplumber  Thu, Mar 4, 2010 11:12:18pm

Man, I just love it when things like this happen.
Sometimes I think the more socially reactionary a person (particularly republicans, I guess), the more he secretly craves for that he seeks to forbid.

194 Yashmak  Fri, Mar 5, 2010 7:13:37am

re: #191 idioma

re: #190 MartiansAteMyCat

One has to wonder if guys likeTed Haggerd and Peter LaBarbera are in fact deeply closeted gays themselves, and have a truly magnificent degree of self-loathing going on, or if there is some other sort of thing going on there.


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