Last Straw for an African American GOP Supporter

Blatant racism drives away long-time Republican

PoliticsJune 2011 • Views: 34,245

Ken Barnes, a long-time Republican from Sacramento, announced today that he’s fed up with the GOP.

Why?

Because he’s an African American, and he’s finally getting the hint: Viewpoints: Racist cartoon of Obama forces me to leave GOP.

I was one of those rare species: a black Republican, the guy willing to spit into the wind of conventional thought, who was often showcased on camera at party events to prove inclusiveness.

But as a proud black man, I can no longer be a member of the Republican Party. …

I have had the pleasure of serving as president of the Sacramento Republican Assembly, a term as a member of the California Republican Party executive committee, and most recently as treasurer of the Sacramento County Republican Party.

Last year alone, I donated more than 400 hours of my time to the Republican Party and made financial contributions to a number of Republican candidates.

As of late, however, when I look at myself in the mirror there is one question which perplexes me: Can I, in good conscience, remain affiliated with an organization whose message purveyors of racism and bigotry find attractive? …

The latest incident in a string of tawdry, race-based actions was the promotion of a racist cartoon by elected Orange County Republican Party Central Committee member Marilyn Davenport. The cartoon depicted President Barack Obama and his parents as chimpanzees, while simultaneously implying that the president is not a legitimate American, but rather an African-born interloper.

While the Orange County GOP chairman and a number of other committee members were quick to condemn the image and Davenport, what’s disturbing is the incredible number of people who continue to defend Davenport’s actions as well as the cartoon itself.

Had this been an isolated event, it could be set aside as a mere aberration. However, when placed in the context of similar offenses by the same self-identified tea party-conservative Republicans, there emerges a disturbing pattern of extreme intolerance.

Over the past two years, we have seen Republicans use long-held racist imagery in portrayals of Obama. The president has been depicted as a communist witch doctor, a man inclined to plant watermelons on the White House lawn, and we watched in disbelief as his face was placed on an “Obama Buck Food Stamp” along with stereotyped pictures of fried chicken, barbecue ribs, Kool-Aid and the obligatory watermelon.

What does any of this have to do with public policy or conservative values? Here is a man who excelled academically at the finest schools in the world, has a wonderful in-tact family, worked hard and rose to become president of the United States. Yet in spite of his accomplishments, the president is still labeled an illegitimate, socialist, African witch doctor and has his face superimposed on a chimpanzee.

If this can be done to a black man who is the leader of the free world, how long will it be before fellow Republicans insert my face on a chimpanzee?

The image that was the final wake-up call:

OC Republican Circulates Racist Email: Obama and His Parents Are Apes

Jump to bottom

815 comments

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:03:32pm

good, maybe it's the last straw for whites, Latinos. Asians and anybody else with common sense as well...the GOP will implode to a little core of extremists, then poof!...gone as we know them

reine.de.tout Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:03:57pm

This is absolutely a MUST READ for any conservative-leaning person.

Obdicut Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:05:32pm

re: #2 reine.de.tout

And, unfortunately, the comments only prove his point even more. The standard claim that blacks voted for Obama solely based on his blackness, not because they really evaluated him as a candidate vs. McCain. The claim that whites are the real victims. Etc. etc.

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:06:24pm

Generally speaking, Republicans are decent people, and naturally, many of my closest friends vote Republican. As with any large organization or group, there will always be people at the fringes who hold views that are not representative of the body.
An organization cannot control the behavior of each individual actor, but it can control its response to abhorrent conduct.

No truer words.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:06:37pm

These behaviors also raise larger issues for African Americans and other minority groups within the GOP. How can I look my parents in the eye and tell them I'm a Republican in spite of these offenses? If he were still living, could my Latino father-in-law be proud that his daughter supports the GOP, in spite of the constant anti-Latino rhetoric that comes from the party? Can gay family members reconcile my support of a party that seeks to strip them of their basic human rights?
These are not issues which pit moderate against conservative views, but rather consequential matters which transcend political positioning and speak to universal human values.

Good for him. He gets it.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:06:40pm

I don't know why cartoons of that sort are tolerated. They're electoral poison and getting the votes of the people who will flounce if you move against them isn't worth the votes from moderates that are lost. It's just stupid.

Obdicut Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:07:37pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

Why is Fox tolerating open racism against the president, as well?

It's twice now with blatant, absolute racism, and the guy hasn't even gotten his hand slapped.

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:08:04pm

re: #4 researchok

No truer words.

the GOP response is rah rah sis boom ba!...extreme tunnel vision

reine.de.tout Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:08:58pm

re: #3 Obdicut

And, unfortunately, the comments only prove his point even more. The standard claim that blacks voted for Obama solely based on his blackness, not because they really evaluated him as a candidate vs. McCain. The claim that whites are the real victims. Etc. etc.

Oh, hell.

I'm more than happy I'm now registered, no party affiliation.
But we need two parties, IMO. And the R's in the spotlight these days (that is, those who are influencing the direction of the party) are pretty damned awful.

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:09:25pm

re: #8 albusteve

the GOP response is rah rah sis boom ba!...extreme tunnel vision

Far too many believe silence buys votes

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:10:14pm

re: #7 Obdicut

Why is Fox tolerating open racism against the president, as well?

It's twice now with blatant, absolute racism, and the guy hasn't even gotten his hand slapped.

because it's vogue, pink so to speak

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:10:45pm

re: #8 albusteve

the GOP response is rah rah sis boom ba!...extreme tunnel vision

No, it's not. These cartoons have met with more internal condemnation than approval but they keep popping up. In my mind the next time this happens the offender needs to be read out of the party. No repentance, no second chance, they're out. That should be repeated as many times as needed to remove the racist trolls.

Interesting Times Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:11:00pm

Over the past two years, we have seen Republicans use long-held racist imagery in portrayals of Obama. The president has been depicted as a communist witch doctor, a man inclined to plant watermelons on the White House lawn, and we watched in disbelief as his face was placed on an “Obama Buck Food Stamp” along with stereotyped pictures of fried chicken, barbecue ribs, Kool-Aid and the obligatory watermelon.

He forgot this one (sent out by Sherri Goforth, a Tennessee GOP legislative staffer for Republican state senator Diane Black).

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:11:37pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

No, it's not. These cartoons have met with more internal condemnation than approval but they keep popping up. In my mind the next time this happens the offender needs to be read out of the party. No repentance, no second chance, they're out. That should be repeated as many times as needed to remove the racist trolls.

Lots of truth there.

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:12:30pm

re: #10 researchok

Far too many believe silence buys votes

we'll see next year just how pathetic the political climate is...regardless of all the predicting, nobody really knows...I don't see an epic conservative rejection of the GOP's extremism tho

Lidane Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:13:29pm

If this can be done to a black man who is the leader of the free world, how long will it be before fellow Republicans insert my face on a chimpanzee?

I've been saying this for the last three years. It's nice to see it in print.

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:13:38pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

No, it's not. These cartoons have met with more internal condemnation than approval but they keep popping up. In my mind the next time this happens the offender needs to be read out of the party. No repentance, no second chance, they're out. That should be repeated as many times as needed to remove the racist trolls.

so link us to the GOP's rejection of this shit, and not some isolated tweet

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:14:14pm

re: #15 albusteve

we'll see next year just how pathetic the political climate is...regardless of all the predicting, nobody really knows...I don't see an epic conservative rejection of the GOP's extremism tho

They've pretty much lost me.

Lots of others as well.

jaunte Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:16:02pm

re: #13 publicityStunted

He forgot this one (sent out by Sherri Goforth, a Tennessee GOP legislative staffer for Republican state senator Diane Black).

She doesn't get it.

Christian Grantham talks to Ms. Goforth, who admits she sent the email.
"When I asked her if she understood the controversial nature of the photo, Goforth would only say she felt very bad about accidentally sending it to the wrong list. When I gave her a second chance to address the controversial nature of the email, she again repeated that she only felt bad about sending it to the wrong list of people."
[Link: newscoma.com...]

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:16:11pm

so how exactly does the GOP toss people out of the party?

Interesting Times Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:16:24pm

re: #18 researchok

They've pretty much lost me.

Lots of others as well.

I predict whoever they nominate - even if it's someone like Palin - is guaranteed at least 40% of the vote.

_{yes, I have that little faith in the voters, because they're that easy to fool and manipulate}

Semper Fi Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:16:52pm

I'm glad this is getting good coverage. Stanley Sea brought it up in 'pages' with already more than 60 Tweets. Now, an important thread. My opinion, based upon my feelings, the repubs have left many behind and I think the 'many' will became a number to haunt them in 2012. I'm one that's not gonna walk down their path.

avanti Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:17:44pm

re: #2 reine.de.tout

This is absolutely a MUST READ for any conservative-leaning person.

What the hell happened to the real conservatives I knew a few years ago ? They have either become rare, or largely silent, and this lefty misses them greatly. We have a few here, but they are damn hard to find.

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:17:45pm

re: #21 publicityStunted

I predict whoever they nominate - even if it's someone like Palin - is guaranteed at least 40% of the vote.

_{yes, I have that little faith in the voters, because they're that easy to fool and manipulate}

They won't win.

Losing has a way of making reality quite clear.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:18:01pm

re: #17 albusteve

so link us to the GOP's rejection of this shit, and not some isolated tweet

It's in the article itself "While the Orange County GOP chairman and a number of other committee members were quick to condemn the image and Davenport". The problem is that simple condemnation isn't enough. The racist troll has to be punished, and right now that punishment needs to be expulsion. The expulsions to continue until the trolls get the message that racism will not be tolerated.

theheat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:18:24pm

Many of the comments about the article are more disturbing than the photo. Victimhood, a few bad apples, denial, equivalence, more bad taste, outright racism... The GOP's representatives and apologists are a loathsome group.

Interesting Times Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:18:31pm

re: #19 jaunte

She doesn't get it.

I like Wonkette's response to that:

Yes, yes, Republicans must be careful not to hit the “wrong button” when sending out the racist bullshit. Sadly, our liberal technology sector has yet to create a button that would only send your racist fuckwad idiocy to fellow mouth-breathing racist cretins who think there is NOTHING as funny as the idea of … people with dark complexions. Even when you’re just sending the Funnies to proper white folk, there is still often a “N.L.” who will complain about old-fashioned Southern comedy.

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:19:08pm

re: #20 albusteve

so how exactly does the GOP toss people out of the party?

They wouldn't need to, they just need to denounce the crap publicly and often.
The racists and bigots would then stop supporting them.

Problem solved.

Jaerik Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:19:10pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

I don't know why cartoons of that sort are tolerated. They're electoral poison and getting the votes of the people who will flounce if you move against them isn't worth the votes from moderates that are lost. It's just stupid.

To a sane, intelligent, level-headed conservative like yourself, who isn't afraid to participate in a forum with alternative viewpoints and thus has a more "50,000 foot view" of the political landscape, you're absolutely right.

To the more fanatical (and primary-voting) member of the party who has willfully and enthusiastically thrust themselves into the depths of the political echo chamber, the balance of the vote calculus may very well seem the opposite of your conclusion.

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:19:11pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

No, it's not. These cartoons have met with more internal condemnation than approval but they keep popping up. In my mind the next time this happens the offender needs to be read out of the party. No repentance, no second chance, they're out. That should be repeated as many times as needed to remove the racist trolls.

I agree they get drummed out Dark... and if you want my suggestion for why this kind of thing keeps happening... well if I was a cynic I'd say that such things are only condemned once they go "off reservation" and get out among the public....

After all the people who keep getting caught with these things never claim to have created them but instead "got them from a friend..." says something about the friend some elected GOP people have don't they?

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:20:42pm

re: #3 Obdicut

And, unfortunately, the comments only prove his point even more. The standard claim that blacks voted for Obama solely based on his blackness, not because they really evaluated him as a candidate vs. McCain. The claim that whites are the real victims. Etc. etc.

"MY feelings are hurt! How dare YOU have your feelings hurt!"

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:20:53pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

It's in the article itself "While the Orange County GOP chairman and a number of other committee members were quick to condemn the image and Davenport". The problem is that simple condemnation isn't enough. The racist troll has to be punished, and right now that punishment needs to be expulsion. The expulsions to continue until the trolls get the message that racism will not be tolerated.

condemn?...what the hell does that mean?...that's punishment?...I ask you again, how does the GOP rid itself of racists?...the GOP has no authority over it's members, if they do link it

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:21:00pm

re: #20 albusteve

so how exactly does the GOP toss people out of the party?

If there is not a mechanism, one could be devised. A good step would be area disciplinary boards that would have limited authority to punish those who bring the party into disrepute.

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:21:28pm

re: #28 ozbloke

They wouldn't need to, they just need to denounce the crap publicly and often.
The racists and bigots would then stop supporting them.

Problem solved.

that's not what's being implied here

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:21:47pm

re: #13 publicityStunted

He forgot this one (sent out by Sherri Goforth, a Tennessee GOP legislative staffer for Republican state senator Diane Black).

Holy hell. I hadn't seen that one.

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:22:34pm

re: #23 avanti

What the hell happened to the real conservatives I knew a few years ago ? They have either become rare, or largely silent, and this lefty misses them greatly. We have a few here, but they are damn hard to find.

This post was written about six years ago today... [Link: kfmonkey.blogspot.com...] but it still manages to ring true today about the demise of the GOP as a constructive force in American politics...

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:22:54pm

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

If there is not a mechanism, one could be devised. A good step would be area disciplinary boards that would have limited authority to punish those who bring the party into disrepute.

wtf are you even talking about?...how does a political party punish people?

theheat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:23:39pm

re: #30 jamesfirecat

I used to get a lot of these with about a million FW FWs in the send line. Sometimes, I was unpleasantly surprised to see who it was that thought *I* would whatever racist shit they were sending was funny, and disappointed it revealed a very unpleasant side of someone I may not have known previous to receiving it.

I used to just quietly shitcan them, but after awhile I started to reply with things about illiterate racist cornfed hillbilly MFs... and they all but dried up.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:24:03pm

re: #29 Jaerik

To a sane, intelligent, level-headed conservative like yourself, who isn't afraid to participate in a forum with alternative viewpoints and thus has a more "50,000 foot view" of the political landscape, you're absolutely right.

To the more fanatical (and primary-voting) member of the party who has willfully and enthusiastically thrust themselves into the depths of the political echo chamber, the balance of the vote calculus may very well seem the opposite of your conclusion.

I vote in all the primaries, Jaerik. Every one of them, and so does many entire extended family (though some of us do vote Democrat, those also always vote in their primary). Not one of us is a nutcase hater, though I admit that my family, though generally Republican, is mostly in the blue states of Illinois, California, and Hawaii.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:24:17pm

re: #37 albusteve

wtf are you even talking about?...how does a political party punish people?

It can't do anything about voters, but it can certainly deal with employees and officials within the party. And in the case of the chimp cartoons, I believe, they were working on that.

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:24:43pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

It's in the article itself "While the Orange County GOP chairman and a number of other committee members were quick to condemn the image and Davenport". The problem is that simple condemnation isn't enough. The racist troll has to be punished, and right now that punishment needs to be expulsion. The expulsions to continue until the trolls get the message that racism will not be tolerated.

Or until you run out of Republicans.

(Sorry that joke is meaner than I normally go but you delivered so but you took care of the set up so wonderfully!)

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:25:08pm

re: #12 Dark_Falcon

No, it's not. These cartoons have met with more internal condemnation than approval but they keep popping up. In my mind the next time this happens the offender needs to be read out of the party. No repentance, no second chance, they're out. That should be repeated as many times as needed to remove the racist trolls.

I don't see it happening. The JBS, creationism, anti-science, anti-choice, anti-equal rights, just to name a few poisons, seem to have taken hold. I doubt a modern day Buckley could emerge as an antidote without being universally shouted down by a chorus of "FUCK YOU COMMIE RINO"!!! It's a pity.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:25:11pm

re: #37 albusteve

wtf are you even talking about?...how does a political party punish people?

By expelling them from it or making their continued participation contingent on them ceasing to spew bile of various sorts.

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:25:46pm

re: #40 SanFranciscoZionist

It can't do anything about voters, but it can certainly deal with employees and officials within the party. And in the case of the chimp cartoons, I believe, they were working on that.

firing somebody will hardly stop their racist posting...take their title away?...so what?

Lidane Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:25:59pm

re: #36 jamesfirecat

This post was written about six years ago today... [Link: kfmonkey.blogspot.com...] but it still manages to ring true today about the demise of the GOP as a constructive force in American politics...

That article might be six years old, but it's been true in some form or fashion for at least 20 years now.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:26:10pm

re: #23 avanti

What the hell happened to the real conservatives I knew a few years ago ? They have either become rare, or largely silent, and this lefty misses them greatly. We have a few here, but they are damn hard to find.

Now you're just ignoring me. :(
/

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:27:18pm

re: #43 Dark_Falcon

By expelling them from it or making their continued participation contingent on them ceasing to spew bile of various sorts.

how do you expel someone from a political party?...your ridiculous idealism is not an answer...the GOP is teeming with these types

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:28:06pm

Racism isn't a one sided problem.

Pretending it is solves nothing

Lidane Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:29:58pm

re: #48 researchok

I don't know anyone who is pretending that racism doesn't exist on all sides.

The problem being highlighted in this article is the institutionalized racism that is tolerated by the GOP that drove away a black man who considered himself a faithful conservative Republican.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:30:18pm

re: #44 albusteve

firing somebody will hardly stop their racist posting...take their title away?...so what?

By booting them you make clear that your organization will not tolerate their racism. No criminal action can be taken, as the 1st Amendment does protect that hateful cartoon from criminal liability, but imposing a major social cost on racism is one way to reduce it, or at least reduce its visibility.

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:30:31pm

the point is there are probably millions of these kooks representing the GOP...you cannot deal with them individually, so the GOP has to maintain a massive PR onslaught against them...where is it?...where was it two years ago...these stupid purging ideas are childish...where is the official GOP condemnation?...there isn't one

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:31:39pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

By booting them you make clear that your organization will not tolerate their racism. No criminal action can be taken, as the 1st Amendment does protect that hateful cartoon from criminal liability, but imposing a major social cost on racism is one way to reduce it, or at least reduce its visibility.

BOOT THEM FROM WHAT?...explain this boot them shit or give it up

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:32:14pm

re: #49 Lidane

I don't know anyone who is pretending that racism doesn't exist on all sides.

The problem being highlighted in this article is the institutionalized racism that is tolerated by the GOP that drove away a black man who considered himself a faithful conservative Republican.

You actually believe racism is only institutionalized by the right?

Are you serious?

Lidane Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:33:43pm

re: #53 researchok

What part of "The problem being highlighted in this article" is hard to understand?

I'm not talking about anything other than what the author of this piece wrote about, which was the racism he's seen in the GOP that drove him away.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:34:17pm

re: #49 Lidane

I don't know anyone who is pretending that racism doesn't exist on all sides.

The problem being highlighted in this article is the institutionalized racism that is tolerated by the GOP that drove away a black man who considered himself a faithful conservative Republican.

And who has now gone into a vast pool of independent voters who are waiting for...something good.

goddamnedfrank Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:34:39pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

By booting them you make clear that your organization will not tolerate their racism. No criminal action can be taken, as the 1st Amendment does protect that hateful cartoon from criminal liability, but imposing a major social cost on racism is one way to reduce it, or at least reduce its visibility.

It's cute watching you pretend that these people aren't your party's base.

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:35:23pm

re: #52 albusteve

BOOT THEM FROM WHAT?...explain this boot them shit or give it up

Since I was so hard to DF earlier I'll spot him an answer to this one (though of course he should feel free to correct me)

I imagine that he feels the following actions should be taken on behalf of the GOP towards these people.

1) Issue multiple press releases stating the GOP no longers considers them to be affiliated with it.

2) State that the GOP considers that they should step down from whatever current position they are in.

3) If they refuse to step down, run a different canadate against them as soon as possible and refuse to give them any sort of support, make it clear that if they manage to win a primary the GOP will support A DEMOCRAT before they would support this person for any elected position.

That should at least be a start for trying to chase someone out of your political party.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:35:51pm

Having now been active in both major political parties, I've discovered the common prohibited activity is critical thinking.
President Ronald Reagan once famously said, "I did not leave the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party left me," and I can now say that I have been abandoned by both Democrats and Republicans.

Bound to happen sooner or later. If you're prone to engage in critical thinking, that is.

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:36:43pm

re: #57 jamesfirecat

Since I was so hard to DF earlier I'll spot him an answer to this one (though of course he should feel free to correct me)

I imagine that he feels the following actions should be taken on behalf of the GOP towards these people.

1) Issue multiple press releases stating the GOP no longers considers them to be affiliated with it.

2) State that the GOP considers that they should step down from whatever current position they are in.

3) If they refuse to step down, run a different canadate against them as soon as possible and refuse to give them any sort of support, make it clear that if they manage to win a primary the GOP will support A DEMOCRAT before they would support this person for any elected position.

That should at least be a start for trying to chase someone out of your political party.

I and many others have already said most of that

Lidane Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:36:57pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

By booting them you make clear that your organization will not tolerate their racism. No criminal action can be taken, as the 1st Amendment does protect that hateful cartoon from criminal liability, but imposing a major social cost on racism is one way to reduce it, or at least reduce its visibility.

Except that this kind of racism is not only tolerated, but enabled and encouraged in venues like Fox News and on AM talk radio.

You're talking about booting people from the GOP for being racist, but the powers that be who are running the party are exploiting that racism and bigoted resentment to get out the anti-Obama vote.

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:37:18pm

re: #56 goddamnedfrank

It's cute watching you pretend that these people aren't your party's base.

'Base' is a word that gets tossed around far too lightly at this point. Let's just say that there's no urge right now in the GOP to purge the crazies. The crazies are useful and easily offended.

Killgore Trout Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:38:19pm

Youtube Video

Kronocide Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:38:39pm

I'm sorry to have voted for this clan for 20 years, Ken.

Interesting Times Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:38:47pm

re: #23 avanti

What the hell happened to the real conservatives I knew a few years ago ? They have either become rare, or largely silent, and this lefty misses them greatly. We have a few here, but they are damn hard to find.

They've been overwhelmed by people like this:

SherilynKD Sherilyn Dyer
by peterose1985
No vote for any1 PC, global warming, anti Israel, pro union, legalized illegals, pro Obamacare, pro homo unions,pro death or anti drilling.

That's how the term "conservative" is defined now by Fox/Breitbart/Red State/Hot Air/Limbaugh ad nauseam. Only people who deviate from these positions are drummed out of the party and/or ridiculed as "not conservative enough."

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:39:03pm

re: #60 Lidane

Except that this kind of racism is not only tolerated, but enabled and encouraged in venues like Fox News and on AM talk radio.

You're talking about booting people from the GOP for being racist, but the powers that be who are running the party are exploiting that racism and bigoted resentment to get out the anti-Obama vote.

exactly...if GOP supporters don't understand this simple notion then they have failed bigtime...booting people that openly express racism and there would be no official party

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:40:04pm

re: #53 researchok

You actually believe racism is only institutionalized by the right?

Are you serious?

I take no issue whatsoever with this article.

That said, when the remark, "The problem being highlighted in this article is the institutionalized racism that is tolerated by the GOP that drove away a black man who considered himself a faithful conservative Republican", you make it sound as if there is a clear distinction between the racism of the right and that of the left.

Not quite accurate.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:40:24pm

re: #63 BigPapa

I'm sorry to have voted for this clan for 20 years, Ken.

Vote for the candidate, not the party. Of course, to do this effectively requires more homework to be done on the voters part. Most voters hate homework.

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:40:43pm

re: #66 researchok

I take no issue whatsoever with this article.

That said, when the remark, "The problem being highlighted in this article is the institutionalized racism that is tolerated by the GOP that drove away a black man who considered himself a faithful conservative Republican", you make it sound as if there is a clear distinction between the racism of the right and that of the left.

Not quite accurate.

Why don't you explain to us where you see the racism on the left so that I can better remove the log from my eye?

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:40:47pm

re: #66 researchok

Give some examples? :p

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:41:52pm

re: #68 jamesfirecat

Youtube Video

(been a while!)

Charles Johnson Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:42:17pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

By booting them you make clear that your organization will not tolerate their racism. No criminal action can be taken, as the 1st Amendment does protect that hateful cartoon from criminal liability, but imposing a major social cost on racism is one way to reduce it, or at least reduce its visibility.

There's a reason why these people are NOT being booted out of the GOP. It's called the "Southern Strategy," and it's a deliberate appeal to the racist, ignorant base of voters on which the GOP relies. It's been this way for decades.

The party of reactionaries needs the reactionary voters. It's that simple.

Lidane Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:42:50pm

re: #66 researchok

Fine. Give me examples of the last time that openly racist imagery was tolerated by the Democratic party, or enabled and encouraged by liberal commentators in the media.

Show me that it's not quite accurate.

SpaceJesus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:43:05pm

The Republican Party is a xenophobic organization. Mistrust, hate, and discrimination against people based on race, religion, and or nationality is an accepted, open and notorious center-piece of the party.

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:44:17pm

re: #71 Charles

Funny thing with the Southern strategy is that they 'apologized' for it, while still continuing.

reine.de.tout Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:44:19pm

re: #23 avanti

What the hell happened to the real conservatives I knew a few years ago ? They have either become rare, or largely silent, and this lefty misses them greatly. We have a few here, but they are damn hard to find.

It depends on who's around.
I'm much less likely to say anything at all if there are a few around who I know will go into a frenzy and start putting words into my mouth if I say anything. Not many like that, really, but enough that I just - basically keep myself to myself.

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:44:32pm

Ted Rall referred to Condaleeza Rice as a 'house nigga'. He's carried bt 140 papers

Clarence Thomas has been referred to an 'Uncle Tom' countless times.

Thomas was denounced as a “pimp” and a “traitor” to the black community. With comparable contempt, the Reverend Joseph Lowery of the Southern Christian Leadership Conference once said, “I have told [Thomas] I am ashamed of him, because he is becoming to the black community what Benedict Arnold was to the nation he deserted; and what Judas Iscariot was to Jesus: a traitor; and what Brutus was to Caesar: an assassin. Missouri Democrat William Clay labels Thomas and other black conservatives “Negro wanderers” whose goal is to “maim and kill other blacks for the gratification and entertainment of ultraconservative white racists.” Similarly, Mr. Clay described black conservative Gary Franks – when Franks was a Connecticut congressman – as a “Negro Dr. Kevorkian, a pariah,” who exhibited a “foot-shuffling, head-scratching brand of Uncle Tomism.”

Former NAACP executive director Benjamin Hooks denounces black conservatives as “a new breed of Uncle Tom [and] some of the biggest liars the world ever saw.” Afrocentric historian John Henrik Clarke calls them “frustrated slaves crawling back to the plantation.” The late Khalid Abdul Muhammad put it still more bluntly: “When white folks can’t defeat you, they’ll always find some Negro, some boot-licking, butt-licking, bamboozled, half-baked, half-fried, sissified, punkified, pasteurized, homogenized n***** that they can trot out in front of you.” It is notable that Muhammad’s words – though very crude – express precisely the same message that Mr. Bond expressed somewhat more delicately.

Civil rights leaders of the 1960s were called Uncle Toms by more militant Blacks. Whitney Young, Executive Director of the Urban League from 1961 to 1971, was a “radical integrationist.” His willingness to work with Whites led to charges that he was an “Uncle Tom.” Reverend Martin Luther King’s unwillingness to advocate retaliatory violence led Stokely Carmichael to accuse him of “Uncle Tomism.” Bayard Rustin, one of the chief tacticians of the Civil Rights Movement, was also called an “Uncle Tom” by Black militants. Roy Wilkens was called an “Uncle Tom” because he publicly stated that Blacks could achieve political power “in the system.” Civil rights leaders were judged to be too passive, too religious, too eager to integrate — too much like the stereotypical Version A “Uncle Tom.” Older, more established Blacks have often been accused of being too conservative, too passive, and too desirous of White approval. In the 1950s Louis Armstong was called an “Uncle Tom” by young bebop musicians.

In recent years the “Uncle Tom” slur has been directed against Christopher Darden, the Black member of the prosecution’s team in the O.J. Simpson murder trial; Detroit Mayor Dennis Archer; Karl Malone, the Utah Jazz basketball player; and Colin Powell. Cornell West, the author of Race Matters and a lifelong civil rights activist, was called an “Uncle Tom” by the African United Front because of his “support” of Jews. The “Uncle Tom” slur has even been appropriated by other ethnic groups to exert in-group pressures on their members. A Native American, for example, who is believed to be too friendly with or admiring of Whites, is called an “Uncle Tomahawk”; Chinese Americans use the term “Uncle Tong.” Even W.E.B. DuBois, arguably the greatest, most sustained civil rights voice of the 20th Century, was called an “Uncle Tom” — by Marcus Garvey, who added that DuBois was “purely and simply a White man’s n*****.”

Plenty more.

Tbogg of Firedog Lake refers to Juan Williamsw as "pants-shitting".

Plenty more.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:44:49pm

re: #71 Charles

They found a way to steal away the KKK demographic from the Democrats, and the Democrats were smart enough to let them take it.

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:45:58pm

re: #71 Charles

There's a reason why these people are NOT being booted out of the GOP. It's called the "Southern Strategy," and it's a deliberate appeal to the racist, ignorant base of voters on which the GOP relies. It's been this way for decades.

The party of reactionaries needs the reactionary voters. It's that simple.

Yes, it is part of a stategy- one that will cost the GOP dearly.

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:46:16pm

re: #76 researchok

That's... a set of terrible examples.

Using Rall is like using David Duke, and an insult to Thomas (dirtbag that he is) doesn't equate a policy of racism.

Dark_Falcon Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:46:25pm

I'm not going to have any fun on this thread so I'm just going to clear out for the night.

I'll be back tomorrow. This is not a reflection on anyone here, since everyone but Frank has been entirely civil, and Frank has been entirely within bounds as well.

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:46:37pm

re: #79 windsagio

That's... a set of terrible examples.

Using Rall is like using David Duke, and an insult to Thomas (dirtbag that he is) doesn't equate a policy of racism.

And the rest?

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:47:01pm

re: #81 researchok

Umm I know what 'Uncle Tom' means as an insult?

reine.de.tout Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:47:10pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

I don't know why cartoons of that sort are tolerated. They're electoral poison and getting the votes of the people who will flounce if you move against them isn't worth the votes from moderates that are lost. It's just stupid.

Yep.
And it's also just wrong.

Kronocide Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:47:13pm

re: #67 Slumbering Behemoth

Vote for the candidate, not the party. Of course, to do this effectively requires more homework to be done on the voters part. Most voters hate homework.

True, but I voted for candidates who happened to be R. I don't know if I can do that anymore. There are a few, very few GOP locals here in Hawaii, but they are typically not the TeaParty type, so maybe I won't hold it against them.

But nationally? Not a freekin chance after what I've seen the last few years. Maybe, maybe I could vote for Mitt if the vote were right now, but I don't see it happening.

SpaceJesus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:47:22pm

re: #76 researchok

African American organizations being racist against themselves?

Lidane Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:47:32pm

re: #76 researchok

I remember a metric shit ton of blowback for Ted Rall from both the left and the right when he said that about Condi. Maybe you missed it.

Also, the stuff about Clarence Thomas? Not quite the same as the Democratic party openly tolerating and encouraging racist imagery in order to get out the vote, which is what the GOP has been doing since Obama got elected.

Try again.

Kronocide Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:48:28pm

Had this been an isolated event, it could be set aside as a mere aberration. However, when placed in the context of similar offenses by the same self-identified tea party-conservative Republicans, there emerges a disturbing pattern of extreme intolerance.

Or, a disturbing pattern of acceptance of extremism. By why quibble.

reine.de.tout Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:48:29pm

re: #67 Slumbering Behemoth

Vote for the candidate, not the party. Of course, to do this effectively requires more homework to be done on the voters part. Most voters hate homework.

absolutely.

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:48:34pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

I'm not going to have any fun on this thread so I'm just going to clear out for the night.

I'll be back tomorrow. This is not a reflection on anyone here, since everyone but Frank has been entirely civil, and Frank has been entirely within bounds as well.

I salute you for knowing your limits Dark.

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:49:06pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

Peace out, but keep this in mind. In the US, party affiliation is like religious affiliation. Anyone can register and run as a Republican, just as any one can declare themselves Muslim and attend a mosque. There's not much to be done, really, to kick people out of either affiliation.

Semper Fi Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:49:23pm

Goodnight folks. I'll read the remainder of this thread early monday. I'll close by saying I'm more than just a little angry with the GOP.

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:49:42pm

re: #89 jamesfirecat

I salute you for knowing your limits Dark.

it's cut and run...bravo

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:49:47pm

re: #82 windsagio

Umm I know what 'Uncle Tom' means as an insult?

The expression is derogatory.

Don't get me wrong- all forms of racism are contemptible.

My point is the reality that racism is not derivative a single political ideology.

Racism is the result of ignorance, not politics.

Interesting Times Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:49:49pm

re: #81 researchok

And the rest?

The "pants-shitting" description of Juan Williams was (I'm guessing) a reference to his comments about being uncomfortable in a plane if there were "traditionally dressed" Muslims on board. It's not a racist insult against Williams at all - the exact same thing would have been said about a white person who made the same comments.

Charles Johnson Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:50:07pm

Marilyn Davenport, who sent this disgusting picture to her email list, is still a member of the Orange County Republican Central Committee. She was "censured," a slap on the wrist, and went right back to work for the party.

She's also a raving anti-Muslim bigot, of course. These things are NOT a problem for the Republican Party.

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:50:20pm

re: #94 publicityStunted

The "pants-shitting" description of Juan Williams was (I'm guessing) a reference to his comments about being uncomfortable in a plane if there were "traditionally dressed" Muslims on board. It's not a racist insult against Williams at all - the exact same thing would have been said about a white person who made the same comments.

And the rest?

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:51:06pm

Hey all, how's life tonite?

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:51:18pm

re: #92 albusteve

it's cut and run...bravo

Considering the kind of crazy shit DF can start spewing when he knows his limits this was clearly the best option for him...

"A fascinating game... the only winning move.... is not to play."

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:51:33pm

re: #85 SpaceJesus

African American organizations being racist against themselves?

No, just being racist at times.

100

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:52:42pm

re: #84 BigPapa

True, but I voted for candidates who happened to be R. I don't know if I can do that anymore. There are a few, very few GOP locals here in Hawaii, but they are typically not the TeaParty type, so maybe I won't hold it against them.

But nationally? Not a freekin chance after what I've seen the last few years. Maybe, maybe I could vote for Mitt if the vote were right now, but I don't see it happening.

I feel ya. Last election, I felt I did my due diligence, my homework, and some of my votes went to republicans, some of them went to democrats. And I still might get screwed no matter what.

101

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:52:47pm

re: #93 researchok

The expression is derogatory.

Don't get me wrong- all forms of racism are contemptible.

My point is the reality that racism is not derivative a single political ideology.

Racism is the result of ignorance, not politics.

wrong, politics can breed whatever ideology it chooses...manipulation is the entire process of election....otherwise why would you ridicule the GOP like you do?...to simply say racism is the product of ignorance is just that

102

SpaceJesus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:53:43pm

re: #23 avanti

What the hell happened to the real conservatives I knew a few years ago ? They have either become rare, or largely silent, and this lefty misses them greatly. We have a few here, but they are damn hard to find.

Oh they all have their own website now.

103

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:54:22pm

Racism is the result of ignorance, not politics.

As the author of the article notes,

Generally speaking, Republicans are decent people, and naturally, many of my closest friends vote Republican. As with any large organization or group, there will always be people at the fringes who hold views that are not representative of the body.

An organization cannot control the behavior of each individual actor, but it can control its response to abhorrent conduct.

He is not indicting the entire Republican Party. His disappointment is with the ignorant fools and the party leadership that wqn't stand up and kick these disgusting bigots to the curb.

Ignorance knows no political boundaries.

104

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:55:20pm

re: #101 albusteve

wrong, politics can breed whatever ideology it chooses...manipulation is the entire process of election...otherwise why would you ridicule the GOP like you do?...to simply say racism is the product of ignorance is just that

Racism is about ignorance.

Exploiting racism is about an evil agenda.

105

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:55:20pm

re: #96 researchok

And the rest?

I count one comment made by one actual elected Democrat on that list, and you've thrown in Marcus Garvey's comments on W.E.B. DuBois, which, while interesting, is not all that relevent. Nor is some basketball player getting called an Uncle Tom.

Sorry, while I still want to personally kick Ted Rall in the ass, and not just over Condi, this does not add up to much except Ted Rall being an asshole, and a certain amount of infighting within black NGOs.

The examples we're seeing from the GOP right now are problematic not because there are racists out there--we all know there are racists out there--but because they're getting through the cracks in the party, and growing roots in there.

106

Charles Johnson Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:55:28pm

re: #103 researchok

Racism is the result of ignorance, not politics.

But only one party deliberately exploits racism to appeal to the ignorant. That party is the GOP.

107

laZardo Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:55:41pm

re: #103 researchok

Racism is the result of ignorance, not politics.

As the author of the article notes,

He is not indicting the entire Republican Party. His disappointment is with the ignorant fools and the party leadership that wqn't stand up and kick these disgusting bigots to the curb.

Ignorance knows no political boundaries.

At that point, it's not just ignorance.

It's quiet complicity by the majority.

108

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:55:58pm

re: #103 researchok

Racism is the result of ignorance, not politics.

As the author of the article notes,

He is not indicting the entire Republican Party. His disappointment is with the ignorant fools and the party leadership that wqn't stand up and kick these disgusting bigots to the curb.

Ignorance knows no political boundaries.

What happened to the one guy who did try to stand-up --he ended up resigning.

IIRC, he was a State Party leader --made the news a couple of months ago--of course, I can't remember the State or his name.

109

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:56:27pm

re: #102 SpaceJesus

Oh they all have their own website now.

I don't. I don't need the fucking headache. To deal with the kind of idiotic bullshit that Charles has to deal with, constantly, and coming from all sides? No thanks.

110

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:56:27pm

re: #106 Charles

But only one party deliberately exploits racism to appeal to the ignorant. That party is the GOP.

currently. these things have a habit of flip flopping.

111

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:56:31pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

I count one comment made by one actual elected Democrat on that list, and you've thrown in Marcus Garvey's comments on W.E.B. DuBois, which, while interesting, is not all that relevent. Nor is some basketball player getting called an Uncle Tom.

Sorry, while I still want to personally kick Ted Rall in the ass, and not just over Condi, this does not add up to much except Ted Rall being an asshole, and a certain amount of infighting within black NGOs.

The examples we're seeing from the GOP right now are problematic not because there are racists out there--we all know there are racists out there--but because they're getting through the cracks in the party, and growing roots in there.

I do not disagree.

The fact remains racism is a cultural probkem and not only a political problem.

112

Interesting Times Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:56:39pm

re: #96 researchok

And the rest?

Already addressed by others. In all honestly, you've served up that bit of copypasta before, and I still don't see it as anything other than a strawman.

No one is saying racism exclusively exists on one political side. They're saying only one political side has a clear, consistent pattern of pandering to it in a very obvious, damaging way at the highest levels (Willie Horton ads, anyone?)

113

jaunte Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:56:41pm

re: #103 researchok

It's a particular problem for Republicans; they don't want to give up the voting power of the racist contingent.

114

Charles Johnson Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:56:53pm

re: #110 ggt

currently. these things have a habit of flip flopping.

It's been this way for the last 40 years at least.

115

SpaceJesus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:56:54pm

re: #103 researchok[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Is he saying that the fringe of the party is nice?

116

Lidane Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:57:35pm

re: #99 researchok

No, just being racist at times.

In the case of Clarence Thomas, it was all blowback against an African-American. There are a whole set of issues there that aren't as simple as all that.

Again find me examples of the Democratic party itself tolerating racist images and enabling racist resentment and bigotry in order to get out the vote.

He is not indicting the entire Republican Party. His disappointment is with the ignorant fools and the party leadership that won't stand up and kick these disgusting bigots to the curb.

Except that the reason the GOP leadership won't stand up and kick these disgusting bigots to the curb is because they need the angry, pissed off bigot vote. They need people pissed off at Obama and angry at the world. They can't win on their ideas because things like the Ryan plan are toxic to the general public. All they've got left right now is anger and resentment. Why would they kick those people out of the party?

117

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:57:59pm

re: #108 ggt

What happened to the one guy who did try to stand-up --he ended up resigning.

IIRC, he was a State Party leader --made the news a couple of months ago--of course, I can't remember the State or his name.

As he should have.

The GOP is guilty of exploiting the racism that is emanating from the fringes.

In pursuit of votes, they are giving that element a platform and stage.

Shame on them

118

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:58:02pm

re: #111 researchok

I do not disagree.

The fact remains racism is a cultural probkem and not only a political problem.

Yes. Of course it is.

But they don't call it 'culture wars' for nothing. Those are two permanently interlinked categories.

119

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:58:17pm

re: #114 Charles

It's been this way for the last 40 years at least.

I have a long-term way of thinking. Yes, since the late 60's.

Nothing is written in stone in politics.

120

SpaceJesus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:58:24pm

The GOP openly wants to make Muslims second-class citizens. It openly wants to treat Hispanics as possible illegal aliens.

These are just a few things that expose the party's xenophobia, and they are universally part of the GOP platform.

121

William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:58:28pm

re: #80 Dark_Falcon

I'm not going to have any fun on this thread so I'm just going to clear out for the night.

I'll be back tomorrow. This is not a reflection on anyone here, since everyone but Frank has been entirely civil, and Frank has been entirely within bounds as well.

"A man's gotta know his limits"

G'night, DF.

122

freetoken Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:58:30pm

re: #104 researchok

Racism is about ignorance.

Racism is also an opportunity, for those who know how to use it for money or power.

We humans are easily manipulated, and I'm sorry to say that we've seen plenty of examples these past couple of years of how vested interests have exploited long held fears of blacks in order to counter the actions of President Obama.

123

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:58:56pm

re: #104 researchok

Racism is about ignorance.

Exploiting racism is about an evil agenda.

look up the definition of ignorance...you have your cart before your horse...ignorance is no excuse for racism, even tho many racists may be ignorant...use the Palistinians as an example

124

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:59:15pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry, while I still want to personally kick Ted Rall in the ass, and not just over Condi

You're husband is lucky he met you first. Just sayin'.
:)

125

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:59:53pm

re: #116 Lidane

In the case of Clarence Thomas, it was all blowback against an African-American. There are a whole set of issues there that aren't as simple as all that.

Again find me examples of the Democratic party itself tolerating racist images and enabling racist resentment and bigotry in order to get out the vote.

Except that the reason the GOP leadership won't stand up and kick these disgusting bigots to the curb is because they need the angry, pissed off bigot vote. They need people pissed off at Obama and angry at the world. They can't win on their ideas because things like the Ryan plan are toxic to the general public. All they've got left right now is anger and resentment. Why would they kick those people out of the party?

I agree with your latter remarks.

Did the Democrats as a group stand up and condemn the Thomas as a 'Uncle Tom' remarks?

126

laZardo Sun, Jun 12, 2011 8:59:59pm

SO I HEARD DALLAS WON THE FINALS.

127

Kronocide Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:00:32pm

re: #100 Slumbering Behemoth

I feel ya. Last election, I felt I did my due diligence, my homework, and some of my votes went to republicans, some of them went to democrats. And I still might get screwed no matter what.

I'll try to keep it open. In Hawaii, birther shit don't fly one bit so I don't have to worry about that. However, any R will have to submit to a litmus test regarding creationism/AGW strict adherence to GOP fiscal policies threatening to shut the government down.

128

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:00:54pm

racism is taught by racists to their kin

129

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:01:05pm

Researchok, the other problem is that as a tactic, it works. The fact that homophobia and racism are effective GotV methods says just about all you can say.

And per 'uncle tom', next think you know, black people will be calling each other 'n---'.

130

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:01:07pm

Could it be, possibly, that these racists have lots of MONEY. For some reason, their money is talking the right language to those that want it.

Who would have thought that William Buckley's death would have such repercussions?

131

Lidane Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:01:29pm

re: #125 researchok

I agree with your latter remarks.

Did the Democrats as a group stand up and condemn the Thomas as a 'Uncle Tom' remarks?

More relevant question: Did the Democrats as a group openly tolerate and encourage racist imagery and resentment to get out the vote? Yes or no?

132

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:02:20pm

re: #122 freetoken

Racism is also an opportunity, for those who know how to use it for money or power.

We humans are easily manipulated, and I'm sorry to say that we've seen plenty of examples these past couple of years of how vested interests have exploited long held fears of blacks in order to counter the actions of President Obama.

You are absolutely right on the money.

We are witnessing the ugliest kind of exploitation.

The truth is, this is the 'blood libel' charges of our time. Few make the charges and the mob follows (I think I'm about to lose whatever conservative frinds I have with that, but it's true).

133

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:02:21pm

re: #114 Charles

It's been this way for the last 40 years at least.

It was "the other way" for over a hundred years. No, that does not make me feel better about what is going on now, nor does it excuse what is going on now. But GGT does have a valid point about long term ebb and flow.

134

jaunte Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:02:22pm

Still digging

Eric Bolling
Hey Liberals, listen carefully...! I don't like that Obama is ruining our once great economy. He spends more time on the golf course and entertaining cop haters and African dictators than working on economic fixes.
2 hours ago

135

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:04:06pm

re: #128 albusteve

I can't find the exact quote now, but its like that section in Huckleberry Finn about how your morals are what you're brought up with.

136

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:04:31pm

re: #131 Lidane

More relevant question: Did the Democrats as a group openly tolerate and encourage racist imagery and resentment to get out the vote? Yes or no?

Nope, no wash.

The Dems are in bed with those people in the same way the GOP got into bed with the TP.

And there is the moral question of silence in the face of racism, etc.

I suspect we are not so far apart. Our differences are less substantive than they are about definitions.

137

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:05:29pm

re: #134 jaunte

Still digging

I like that whole bit about "once great country." When exactly did America start being less than "great" to these guys? Jan 20th, 2009?

138

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:05:54pm

re: #133 Slumbering Behemoth

It was "the other way" for over a hundred years. No, that does not make me feel better about what is going on now, nor does it excuse what is going on now. But GGT does have a valid point about long term ebb and flow.

The one country has ALWAYS been at war with that other country. EastAsia or whatever (I have a hard time remembering specifics tonite--ok, well, usually).

This is why, I have a hard time with absolutes when it comes to labeling people as groups, i.e. political parties.

Conservatives, by nature, do not like change. I think so many the real conservatives in the GOP, literally, have not realized how their party has been yanked out from under them. It takes them a long time to even notice, much less, accept change.

139

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:05:57pm

re: #132 researchok

I'm referring here to current GOP agenda.

140

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:05:57pm

re: #136 researchok

you still haven't shown how the use of the term 'uncle tom' is equivalent to that cartoon... which isn't surprising, because it's not in any way.

141

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:06:28pm

re: #133 Slumbering Behemoth

It was "the other way" for over a hundred years. No, that does not make me feel better about what is going on now, nor does it excuse what is going on now. But GGT does have a valid point about long term ebb and flow.

Honestly at the moment the democrats are obtaining a larger and larger lock on some of the quickest growing segments of the population via the simple strategy of "not being racist" either the modern GOP would have to break up and reform as a functional political party with useful ideas, or the Democrats would have to be idiots for the Democrat party to start embracing racists at this point...

142

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:06:30pm

re: #135 windsagio

I can't find the exact quote now, but its like that section in Huckleberry Finn about how your morals are what you're brought up with.

Huck overcomes his. For this he has been rewarded with a bazillion people trying to get him out of the classroom.

143

Charles Johnson Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:06:54pm

re: #133 Slumbering Behemoth

It was "the other way" for over a hundred years. No, that does not make me feel better about what is going on now, nor does it excuse what is going on now. But GGT does have a valid point about long term ebb and flow.

I seriously doubt it will turn around again. The long term trend is toward progress and against racism. The GOP still exploits racist feelings because they are the reactionary party, longing to return to the bad old days. And it's not just the racism -- they're also reactionary in terms of women's rights, gay rights, and science. All of these things are part of the whole, and it's not a pretty picture.

144

Kronocide Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:06:58pm

re: #128 albusteve

racism is taught by racists to their kin

Racism is un-American, it's destroying America. It's an absolute shame that we seem to be regressing.

145

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:07:13pm

re: #137 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I like that whole bit about "once great country." When exactly did America start being less than "great" to these guys? Jan 20th, 2009?

It's actually "once great economy", which makes it that much more depressingly funny.

146

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:07:30pm

re: #137 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I like that whole bit about "once great country." When exactly did America start being less than "great" to these guys? Jan 20th, 2009?

It was in March of 2011 when we approved Obamacare.

147

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:07:37pm

re: #137 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I like that whole bit about "once great country." When exactly did America start being less than "great" to these guys? Jan 20th, 2009?

What are you trying to say, Its much older than that.
I think it goes all the way back to November 2008.

148

Lidane Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:07:52pm

re: #136 researchok

The point is, the current GOP has been openly exploiting and tolerating racist imagery and resentment of Obama from the racists and bigots in order to get out the vote and to keep the Tea Party galvanized. They're not going to kick anyone out of the party. They're not going to slap anyone on the wrist, or censure them, or anything. It's not in their interest to do so.

I have yet to see anything in the current Democratic party that matches it. There was an ugly racist element to the PUMA assholes in the last election, but they lost, and the Democratic party power structure marginalized them. I haven't seen any evidence yet that they're doing the same things the GOP is doing with respect to race and racist imagery.

149

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:07:59pm

re: #136 researchok

Nope, no wash.

The Dems are in bed with those people in the same way the GOP got into bed with the TP.

And there is the moral question of silence in the face of racism, etc.

I suspect we are not so far apart. Our differences are less substantive than they are about definitions.

Who are we talking about here? The Rev. Lowery and the NAACP?

150

laZardo Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:08:05pm

re: #143 Charles

I seriously doubt it will turn around again. The long term trend is toward progress and against racism. The GOP still exploits racist feelings because they are the reactionary party, longing to return to the bad old days. And it's not just the racism -- they're also reactionary in terms of women's rights, gay rights, and science. All of these things are part of the whole, and it's not a pretty picture.

I do hope that this would lead to the formation of a properly progressive party. America has really only had "far-right" and "center-right" parties for too long.

151

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:08:11pm

re: #137 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

When exactly did America start being less than "great"

26 October 2001.

152

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:08:24pm

re: #137 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I like that whole bit about "once great country." When exactly did America start being less than "great" to these guys? Jan 20th, 2009?

Must be, since that is the date before which, if you referred to America that way, you would have been a traitor.

153

Interesting Times Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:08:25pm

re: #133 Slumbering Behemoth

It was "the other way" for over a hundred years. No, that does not make me feel better about what is going on now, nor does it excuse what is going on now. But GGT does have a valid point about long term ebb and flow.

WUB had a good point about this a while back - he said it isn't so much Republicans vs. Democrats but social conservatives vs social liberals. Social conservatives (especially in the South) used to align themselves with Democrats, but now they align themselves with the GOP.

154

Charleston Chew Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:08:26pm

The problem, ultimately, is that racists vote. They have a right to. The dilemma for politicians is: "Someone is going to get their vote; is it going to be you or your opponent?" It's easy for me to oppose racism because I have nothing to lose for doing so. Politicians have a lot more riding on these decisions. I would never think of Hilary Clinton as racist, and yet when her ass was on the line in the 08 primary and white racist Democrats dangled their votes in front of her she couldn't resist.

But over the long term, if a party goes for the racist votes, the devil gets their soul. The party incorporates the racist vote into the national strategy, and it works. Year after year. But over decades those racist voters eventually become racist campaign volunteers, who become racist organizers, and who eventually become racist candidates and party leaders. The GOP can't be fixed overnight because it took them 40 years to get this way.

And the only cure is a harsh and painful one. President Johnson helped administer the cure to the Democrats when he signed the Civil Rights Bill of 1964, and allegedly said, "We have lost the South for a generation." That's what it took to get the Democrats of the heroin of racists votes. And it weakened the party for decades. But it also paved the way for a black Democrat to become President.

155

jaunte Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:08:31pm

re: #137 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Bolling's looking for the next big Wall Street bubble. That's his definition of a great economy.

156

Shiplord Kirel Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:08:40pm

I know the Civil War has been over a long time, but this is truly a sorry turn of events for a party that was founded for the explicit purpose of fighting the spread of slavery. Indeed, it was the election of the first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, that drove the besieged slavers to finally break from the union.
As recently as the 1950s, practically all southern blacks who could participate in politics did so as Republicans. President Eisenhower's decision to integrate Little Rock High School at bayonet point in 1958 was relatively painless politically because the GOP was not interested in racist votes anyway.

157

Kronocide Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:08:48pm

Bolling exploiting Common can't be any clearer.

158

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:09:00pm

re: #143 Charles

I seriously doubt it will turn around again. The long term trend is toward progress and against racism. The GOP still exploits racist feelings because they are the reactionary party, longing to return to the bad old days. And it's not just the racism -- they're also reactionary in terms of women's rights, gay rights, and science. All of these things are part of the whole, and it's not a pretty picture.

Forever is a long time in American politics.

159

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:09:01pm

re: #143 Charles

I seriously doubt it will turn around again. The long term trend is toward progress and against racism. The GOP still exploits racist feelings because they are the reactionary party, longing to return to the bad old days. And it's not just the racism -- they're also reactionary in terms of women's rights, gay rights, and science. All of these things are part of the whole, and it's not a pretty picture.

THe GOP has become the "Christian" party. Their planks are thinly veneered not to violate the Separation of Church and State.

It is sad, because we need at least 2 parties. Perhaps the Democratic party will become too large and will split into traditional liberals vs. conservatives at some point.

160

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:09:25pm

re: #142 SanFranciscoZionist

You're the teacher, so I'm on shaky ground, but my memory says that the point was that Huck's lack of education protected him.

Tom was the one who still thought slavery was right.

....

Wow, that's a hell of a message when you get right down to it, wtf?

161

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:09:38pm

re: #147 ozbloke

What are you trying to say, Its much older than that.
I think it goes all the way back to November 2008.

I'd peg it farther back than that. Too many wingnuts seem to pine for some 1950s wonderland that exists only in nostalgic memories. You know, a time in America when women were "in the home," minorities "knew their place," white men were treated as lords and masters of America, when God smiled down upon us because we declared ours "one nation under him," and we had an enemy that we could hate without people saying that we were simply creating our own problems.

162

jaunte Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:10:00pm

re: #157 BigPapa

Bolling exploiting Common can't be any clearer.

Image: CanMyTeethBeAnyWhiter_.jpg

163

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:10:01pm

re: #143 Charles

I seriously doubt it will turn around again. The long term trend is toward progress and against racism. The GOP still exploits racist feelings because they are the reactionary party, longing to return to the bad old days. And it's not just the racism -- they're also reactionary in terms of women's rights, gay rights, and science. All of these things are part of the whole, and it's not a pretty picture.

That is an important distinction. Being reactionary is tough to break because it is so closely tied to politics. The GOP will have to implode and then reinvent itself.

That's a tough road to hoe. As the saying goes, 'If you want to make an enemy, propose change'.

164

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:10:09pm

re: #159 ggt

I really think they're only the Christian party as far as it gets them votes ><

165

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:10:32pm

re: #138 ggt

The one country has ALWAYS been at war with that other country. EastAsia or whatever (I have a hard time remembering specifics tonite--ok, well, usually).

This is why, I have a hard time with absolutes when it comes to labeling people as groups, i.e. political parties.

Conservatives, by nature, do not like change. I think so many the real conservatives in the GOP, literally, have not realized how their party has been yanked out from under them. It takes them a long time to even notice, much less, accept change.

I am wholly open to change, but not change simply for change sake. Apply the scientific method and determine whether or not the change in question will bear any positive results.

But that's probably just the moderate in me. I try to keep that one quite with copious amounts of beer and Tri-Tip.

166

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:11:16pm

re: #160 windsagio

You're the teacher, so I'm on shaky ground, but my memory says that the point was that Huck's lack of education protected him.

Tom was the one who still thought slavery was right.

...

Wow, that's a hell of a message when you get right down to it, wtf?

Huck's protected to some degree by his general lack of sivilizing, but I'd argue that he's still a product of his time and place. He knows what he's supposed to believe, even if he doesn't entirely know why.

167

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:12:02pm

re: #164 windsagio

I really think they're only the Christian party as far as it gets them votes ><

The way they keep passing antiabortion bills begs otherwise.

168

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:12:08pm

re: #161 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'd peg it farther back than that. Too many wingnuts seem to pine for some 1950s wonderland that exists only in nostalgic memories. You know, a time in America when women were "in the home," minorities "knew their place," white men were treated as lords and masters of America, when God smiled down upon us because we declared ours "one nation under him," and we had an enemy that we could hate without people saying that we were simply creating our own problems.

To be honest, its the 1950's for us Aussies too.
Happy Days, heyyyy.

169

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:12:25pm

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

Who are we talking about here? The Rev. Lowery and the NAACP?

Yes, for starters. They are closely aligned with the Dems.re: #148 Lidane

The point is, the current GOP has been openly exploiting and tolerating racist imagery and resentment of Obama from the racists and bigots in order to get out the vote and to keep the Tea Party galvanized. They're not going to kick anyone out of the party. They're not going to slap anyone on the wrist, or censure them, or anything. It's not in their interest to do so.

I have yet to see anything in the current Democratic party that matches it. There was an ugly racist element to the PUMA assholes in the last election, but they lost, and the Democratic party power structure marginalized them. I haven't seen any evidence yet that they're doing the same things the GOP is doing with respect to race and racist imagery.

Yes, I agree with the exploitation remarks. I said the same thing, earlier.

Our differences are about definitions.

The Dems have the political support of many disparate groups.

170

the yankee Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:12:35pm

I am a black guy too and the main reason why I could never vote for the GOP is because of the things that I know they don't mind sacrificing to get what they really want. I knew they would sacrifice science, colored people, gays, non-Christians, and poor people. I didn't know they had it in them to go after voting rights, women, and the elderly.

171

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:13:12pm

re: #161 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'd peg it farther back than that. Too many wingnuts seem to pine for some 1950s wonderland that exists only in nostalgic memories. You know, a time in America when women were "in the home," minorities "knew their place," white men were treated as lords and masters of America, when God smiled down upon us because we declared ours "one nation under him," and we had an enemy that we could hate without people saying that we were simply creating our own problems.

The post WWII Boom is indeed a big nostalgic fantasy for a lot of people. Usually the financial types who SHOULD know the history of economics.

Booms don't last and have unintended consequences.

172

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:13:48pm

By the way, I want to thank fellow lizards for a substantive conversation.

This place rocks.

173

windsagio Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:14:00pm

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

You are very right about that ;)

And I'd love to try to get more Twain talk, but I have a job to do, literally!

Nite y'all!

174

laZardo Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:14:06pm

My face when I realized that I still have not changed my voter registration from Republican.

i'm so sorry ;_;

175

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:14:19pm

re: #143 Charles

I seriously doubt it will turn around again. The long term trend is toward progress and against racism. The GOP still exploits racist feelings because they are the reactionary party, longing to return to the bad old days. And it's not just the racism -- they're also reactionary in terms of women's rights, gay rights, and science. All of these things are part of the whole, and it's not a pretty picture.

I certainly hope you're right. And with the younger generations we see, and the opinions they express, I am more optimistic than pessimistic. Maybe one day instead of turning around, it will simply turn to dust. Not sure if I am that optimistic, though.

176

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:14:43pm

re: #164 windsagio

I really think they're only the Christian party as far as it gets them votes ><

I'll agree that their behavior isn't my definition of Christian. But they wholly identify themselves as Christian.

177

jamesfirecat Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:15:48pm

re: #169 researchok

Yes, for starters. They are closely aligned with the Dems.re: #148 Lidane

Yes, I agree with the exploitation remarks. I said the same thing, earlier.

Our differences are about definitions.

The Dems have the political support of many disparate groups.

Wait... isn't the NAACP the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People?

Are you going to say that this organization is racist against African Americans?

That might be a tough sell my friend....

178

freetoken Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:15:55pm

re: #171 ggt

I do believe that our current economic stagnancy is the opportunity that has allowed racists images/memes to be so opportunistically used these past couple of years. Even if we were in boom times there would be those who would still be doing it, but it would not be so readily dismissed by those who want to make an excuse for it.

179

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:17:11pm

re: #161 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'd peg it farther back than that. Too many wingnuts seem to pine for some 1950s wonderland that exists only in nostalgic memories. You know, a time in America when women were "in the home," minorities "knew their place," white men were treated as lords and masters of America, when God smiled down upon us because we declared ours "one nation under him," and we had an enemy that we could hate without people saying that we were simply creating our own problems.

I think there is some truth to the 50's as being an era when one wage would buy a home.
People probably felt more secure in their work places, how many people will be forced now to change jobs as the world changes.
Their was more time to know your neighbors.

I think more choices, had made it more difficult to some degree.
An interesting paradox.

180

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:17:30pm

re: #178 freetoken

I do believe that our current economic stagnancy is the opportunity that has allowed racists images/memes to be so opportunistically used these past couple of years. Even if we were in boom times there would be those who would still be doing it, but it would not be so readily dismissed by those who want to make an excuse for it.

9/11 was a big catalyst for xenophobia.

181

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:18:22pm

re: #150 laZardo

I do hope that this would lead to the formation of a properly progressive party. America has really only had "far-right" and "center-right" parties for too long.

Not sure what that would mean. The definition of the word "progressive" and the political label "progressive" as it is here in the US, is definitely oxymoronic.

182

William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:19:21pm

re: #151 negativ

26 October 2001.

Thank you, Russ Feingold.

183

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:19:29pm

re: #169 researchok

Yes, for starters. They are closely aligned with the Dems.re: #148 Lidane

Yes, I agree with the exploitation remarks. I said the same thing, earlier.

Our differences are about definitions.

The Dems have the political support of many disparate groups.

I persist, perhaps out of pure partisanship, in believing that things that are done by actual political groups, as listed by the man who wrote the column, may, perhaps, place a slightly greater moral obligation on the party than things said by organizations that are 'closely aligned' with the party.

Because if we're going to get into people who are 'closely aligned' with the Republicans, we're never going to see the light of day again.

Right now, I'm seeing the GOP having an increasing problem with this crap coming from within. I'm quite open to concerns that the Democrats might develop a similar problem, in fact, one of my fears is that we will, in an attempt to garner more loose votes. But what you've posted is largely arguable, mostly not recent, and mostly not coming from within the party.

184

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:19:40pm

re: #156 Shiplord Kirel

I know the Civil War has been over a long time

An awful lot of people seem not to have noticed.

185

laZardo Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:20:20pm

re: #181 Slumbering Behemoth

Not sure what that would mean. The definition of the word "progressive" and the political label "progressive" as it is here in the US, is definitely oxymoronic.

In the sense that the United States is left playing "catch up" with the EU and other developed countries when it comes to certain rights (the issuance of which has been constantly derided as "ENCROACHING COMMUSNIM!" by the lingering Red Scare), I could agree.

186

Charleston Chew Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:20:50pm

re: #166 SanFranciscoZionist

Huck's protected to some degree by his general lack of sivilizing, but I'd argue that he's still a product of his time and place. He knows what he's supposed to believe, even if he doesn't entirely know why.

To me, Huck Finn's line, "All right, then, I'll go to hell", when he decides not to turn in Jim is the epitome of selfless compassion because unlike self-righteous do-gooders who really only help others to make themselves feel good, Huck gets no pleasure out of doing the right thing. He just decides he has to do it.

187

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:21:03pm

re: #177 jamesfirecat

Wait... isn't the NAACP the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People?

Are you going to say that this organization is racist against African Americans?

That might be a tough sell my friend...

You could argue that they're letting politics cause them to use racist language against black politicians who don't favor their stands. However, the idea that the Democratic leadership should tell the NAACP to stop being racist seems--loaded--to me. Call me crazy.

188

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:21:19pm

re: #184 negativ

An awful lot of people seem not to have noticed.

Others have, but are still repeating arguments that their ancestors did, about the "good" of the South's cause and the "evil" of the North's.

189

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:21:57pm

re: #177 jamesfirecat

Wait... isn't the NAACP the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People?

Are you going to say that this organization is racist against African Americans?

That might be a tough sell my friend...

Never said that!

What I'm saying is politics is a dirty business built on exploitation. When they can use that, they will. That is true of every politcal organization, from the NAACP to J Street to the Urban League to AIPAC, as examples.

As I noted earlier, that the GOP exploits the racist sentiments of many of it's fringe elements of the party is the real new blood libel.

A few make the racist charges and legions follow or stay silent.

That is the travesty.

190

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:22:11pm

re: #185 laZardo

In the sense that the United States is left playing "catch up" with the EU and other developed countries when it comes to certain rights (the issuance of which has been constantly derided as "ENCROACHING COMMUSNIM!" by the lingering Red Scare), I could agree.

the EU is seething with extremism...I hope the US never catches up to them

191

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:23:11pm

re: #153 publicityStunted

WUB had a good point about this a while back - he said it isn't so much Republicans vs. Democrats but social conservatives vs social liberals. Social conservatives (especially in the South) used to align themselves with Democrats, but now they align themselves with the GOP.

I hate both of those terms, exactly for the reason Mr. Ken Barnes expressed in the OP's link:

These behaviors also raise larger issues for African Americans and other minority groups within the GOP. How can I look my parents in the eye and tell them I'm a Republican in spite of these offenses? If he were still living, could my Latino father-in-law be proud that his daughter supports the GOP, in spite of the constant anti-Latino rhetoric that comes from the party? Can gay family members reconcile my support of a party that seeks to strip them of their basic human rights?

These are not issues which pit moderate against conservative views, but rather consequential matters which transcend political positioning and speak to universal human values.

192

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:23:25pm

re: #189 researchok

Never said that!

What I'm saying is politics is a dirty business built on exploitation. When they can use that, they will. That is true of every politcal organization, from the NAACP to J Street to the Urban League to AIPAC, as examples.

As I noted earlier, that the GOP exploits the racist sentiments of many of it's fringe elements of the party is the real new blood libel.

A few make the racist charges and legions follow or stay silent.

That is the travesty.

I can agree that politics is a dirty business.

193

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:24:29pm

re: #192 SanFranciscoZionist

I can agree that politics is a dirty business.

it's beyond dirty...it's toxic

194

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:24:31pm

re: #183 SanFranciscoZionist

I persist, perhaps out of pure partisanship, in believing that things that are done by actual political groups, as listed by the man who wrote the column, may, perhaps, place a slightly greater moral obligation on the party than things said by organizations that are 'closely aligned' with the party.

Because if we're going to get into people who are 'closely aligned' with the Republicans, we're never going to see the light of day again.

Right now, I'm seeing the GOP having an increasing problem with this crap coming from within. I'm quite open to concerns that the Democrats might develop a similar problem, in fact, one of my fears is that we will, in an attempt to garner more loose votes. But what you've posted is largely arguable, mostly not recent, and mostly not coming from within the party.

And that is precisely my point! Or one of them, anyway.

There are absolutes and racism is one of those absolutes- it can never be tolerated by the party, those in the party or those aligned with the party. Never. Ever. That is one reason I find the Ron and Rand Paul so disgusting.

195

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:24:57pm

What I don't get is the idea that the US was ever a White country. Perhaps by voting rights standards, but by occupancy, the country has never been a White only country.

The idea that marginalizing individuals, based on any category or flavor, seems sooo anti-everything. Anti-American, Anti-Christian, Anti-decency.

I understand the economic concerns of some about "illegal" immigrants, but have yet to hear a workable plan to address it.

It's a Brave New World. Better to work together towards workable solutions than argue ourselves into oblivion about the moral "rights" or "wrongs" of the issues themselves.

Would that make me a 'pragmatist". That has negative political connotations as well. Sigh.

196

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:26:34pm

OT.

I just polished off a 12" Subway sandwich. Way too much.

I'm informing you all as a PSA

197

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:26:59pm

re: #196 researchok

OT.

I just polished off a 12" Subway sandwich. Way too much.

I'm informing you all as a PSA

My teenager would beg to differ.

198

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:27:26pm

re: #195 ggt

What I don't get is the idea that the US was ever a White country. Perhaps by voting rights standards, but by occupancy, the country has never been a White only country.

The idea that marginalizing individuals, based on any category or flavor, seems sooo anti-everything. Anti-American, Anti-Christian, Anti-decency.

I understand the economic concerns of some about "illegal" immigrants, but have yet to hear a workable plan to address it.

It's a Brave New World. Better to work together towards workable solutions than argue ourselves into oblivion about the moral "rights" or "wrongs" of the issues themselves.

Would that make me a 'pragmatist". That has negative political connotations as well. Sigh.

Sure that is our strength- E Pluribus Unum.

We are pretty unique that way.

199

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:27:49pm

re: #197 ggt

My teenager would beg to differ.

Operative word- teenager.

200

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:28:01pm

re: #163 researchok

:pet peeve trigger:

That's a tough road to hoe.

Um.. That would be "hard row to hoe".

A musical example...

Youtube Video

/and no, I am not an "English Major", so please feel free to point out any of your pet peeves in my typing. A target rich environment, really. I fuck up a lot.

201

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:28:41pm

I need some brain bleach.

202

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:28:49pm

re: #197 ggt

My teenager would beg to differ.

We got two still at home, $15 each time either of them open the fridge.

203

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:29:25pm

re: #201 Gus 802

I need some brain bleach.

*Hands over a half-full bottle*

204

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:29:39pm

re: #201 Gus 802

I need some brain bleach.

What, like you noticed this just now?

How are you?

205

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:29:48pm

re: #185 laZardo

In the sense that the United States is left playing "catch up" with the EU and other developed countries when it comes to certain rights (the issuance of which has been constantly derided as "ENCROACHING COMMUSNIM!" by the lingering Red Scare), I could agree.

I don't really know what you mean with that, but as a political label in the US, "Progressives" are often times anything but.

206

freetoken Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:30:12pm

re: #143 Charles

Not sure about the long term progress against racism. It's such an endemic problem in human societies.

We (the US) certainly have made progress these last 50 years or so, especially in regards to the treatment of African descendent populations.

But, as ggt points out, this time has also been one of unparalleled economic boom in the US, which brought not just plenty of work, food, and shelter to most Americans, but also luxuries such as vacations and entertainment. The overwhelming attitude of American society post WWII has been upbeat, looking toward the future, etc.

What if the "declinists" (and I hate that word but that is the word that Santorum is using, inappropriately, against Obama) are correct, and that the US will slowly fade just like our predecessor the British Empire has done?

I think we are better situated for the next 100 years than many nations, but I believe that many Americans are being forced to give up hopes and aspirations, even if previously unarticulated, and that is discouraging many people.

Even though "Tea Party" gatherings are declining in numbers there are plenty of disaffected people out there. If political disenfranchisement becomes widespread there's always the possibility of a movement/leader rising up that will grasp the opportunity to get power, and the tool for doing that will likely be to blame the "other". In this case I doubt the "other" will be black people, or even Mexicans. Rather, I suspect it will be the Chinese.

Listening to people like Cain and Bachmann (or Bolton or ...) and how willingly they want the US to engage in all-or-nothing tactics in foreign affairs is frightening.

207

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:30:22pm

re: #204 researchok

What, like you noticed this just now?

//

How are you?

Seriously verklempt. Decided that I have to hit the road again. This ain't gonna work out.

208

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:31:19pm

re: #200 Slumbering Behemoth

:pet peeve trigger:

Um.. That would be "hard row to hoe".

A musical example...

[Video]/and no, I am not an "English Major", so please feel free to point out any of your pet peeves in my typing. A target rich environment, really. I fuck up a lot.

Yeah, as soon as I saw that I knew I screwed up.

And thank you for that musical selection to illustrate the point.
//

209

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:31:20pm

re: #207 Gus 802

Seriously verklempt. Decided that I have to hit the road again. This ain't gonna work out.

road time is precious...take the scenic way out and think things thru

210

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:32:24pm

re: #207 Gus 802

Seriously verklempt. Decided that I have to hit the road again. This ain't gonna work out.

Where to?

211

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:33:11pm

An interesting comment.

212

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:33:24pm

re: #210 researchok

Where to?

Anywhere but here.

213

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:33:28pm

re: #201 Gus 802

I need some brain bleach.

You cain't have none of mine! I need every ounce I cain git.

214

Max Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:34:23pm

re: #2 reine.de.tout

This is absolutely a MUST READ for any conservative-leaning person.

We need to do better.

215

jaunte Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:34:35pm

re: #200 Slumbering Behemoth

"hard row to hoe." An old phrase:

Old Norse: harðr "hard,"
Old English: ræw "a row, line,"
Old English: heawan "to cut"

216

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:34:54pm

re: #212 Gus 802

Anywhere but here.

How about "No Place In Particular"?

217

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:35:47pm

re: #206 freetoken

Even though "Tea Party" gatherings are declining in numbers there are plenty of disaffected people out there. If political disenfranchisement becomes widespread there's always the possibility of a movement/leader rising up that will grasp the opportunity to get power, and the tool for doing that will likely be to blame the "other". In this case I doubt the "other" will be black people, or even Mexicans. Rather, I suspect it will be the Chinese.

Arianna Huffington said it very well.

The Tea Party is less about politics than it is about 'attitude' and frustration of voters.

218

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:36:47pm

re: #212 Gus 802

Anywhere but here.

Damn good ice cream and custard in Freehold.

219

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:36:56pm

re: #216 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

How about "No Place In Particular"?

That works. It will likely be back to Denver.

220

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:37:27pm

re: #218 researchok

Damn good ice cream and custard in Freehold.

Blech. New Jersey? No thanks.

221

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:37:59pm

re: #217 researchok

Arianna Huffington said it very well.

The Tea Party is less about politics than it is about 'attitude' and frustration of voters.

I think that's absolutely true. From the beginning, they've been extremely vague on policy, but absolutely clear that they feel that something's gone terribly wrong, and they know who they blame for that.

I understand the feeling of frustration. Just not the belief that being really loud and partisan will help with it.

222

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:38:54pm

re: #206 freetoken

Not sure about the long term progress against racism. It's such an endemic problem in human societies.

We (the US) certainly have made progress these last 50 years or so, especially in regards to the treatment of African descendent populations.

But, as ggt points out, this time has also been one of unparalleled economic boom in the US, which brought not just plenty of work, food, and shelter to most Americans, but also luxuries such as vacations and entertainment. The overwhelming attitude of American society post WWII has been upbeat, looking toward the future, etc.

What if the "declinists" (and I hate that word but that is the word that Santorum is using, inappropriately, against Obama) are correct, and that the US will slowly fade just like our predecessor the British Empire has done?

I think we are better situated for the next 100 years than many nations, but I believe that many Americans are being forced to give up hopes and aspirations, even if previously unarticulated, and that is discouraging many people.

Even though "Tea Party" gatherings are declining in numbers there are plenty of disaffected people out there. If political disenfranchisement becomes widespread there's always the possibility of a movement/leader rising up that will grasp the opportunity to get power, and the tool for doing that will likely be to blame the "other". In this case I doubt the "other" will be black people, or even Mexicans. Rather, I suspect it will be the Chinese.

Listening to people like Cain and Bachmann (or Bolton or ...) and how willingly they want the US to engage in all-or-nothing tactics in foreign affairs is frightening.

I think it would be hard for us to go the way of the British Empire. We don't have colonies to lose.

We are unlike any country past or present. The world is unlike it has ever been. We are a global economy. We have global diplomatic corps -per se-in the United Nations. Transportation, communications are all global now.

Like it or not, each country has to think globally while maintaining sovereignty within it's own borders. National integrity is important. Much like our States vs Federal constant struggles.

I do think the US is going to have to accept that our "greatness" is going to seem less as the rest of the world develops IN OUR IMAGE. We have to accept that other countries might do some things better than we do. We have to step up to the plate if we want to compete in a world we have have had a large hand in developing.

It's a tough game, but we did a lot to create it. Our children may and probably will have to find work in other countries. We will have to be bi- or tri- lingual to compete.

Welcome to the Brave New World!

223

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:39:39pm

re: #220 Gus 802

Blech. New Jersey? No thanks.

NC isn't bad,

Good BBQ, too.

And mint julips

224

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:40:30pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that's absolutely true. From the beginning, they've been extremely vague on policy, but absolutely clear that they feel that something's gone terribly wrong, and they know who they blame for that.

I understand the feeling of frustration. Just not the belief that being really loud and partisan will help with it.

I agree. Great minds and all that.

225

freetoken Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:40:30pm

re: #222 ggt

I see that you are an optimist.

226

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:40:38pm

re: #223 researchok

NC isn't bad,

Good BBQ, too.

And mint julips

I've always had my mind on Southern women too.

227

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:40:51pm

re: #225 freetoken

I see that you are an optimist.

I read a lot of science fiction.

228

laZardo Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:40:59pm

re: #221 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that's absolutely true. From the beginning, they've been extremely vague on policy, but absolutely clear that they feel that something's gone terribly wrong, and they know who they blame for that.

The Federal Reserve!

229

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:41:26pm

historically, New Mexico has been a haven for crooks, liars, cheats, cattle thieves, murderers, gamblers, whores and every sort of bad person looking for refuge in a basically lawless land...nothing has changed and that's why I'm here...to lay low and gather my wits while the rest of the worlds blogs their frustration and insignificance...c'mon down here and nobody gives a shit who you are or where you dragged your sorry ass down from...best people in the entire hemisphere

230

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:41:52pm

re: #229 albusteve

historically, New Mexico has been a haven for crooks, liars, cheats, cattle thieves, murderers, gamblers, whores and every sort of bad person looking for refuge in a basically lawless land...nothing has changed and that's why I'm here...to lay low and gather my wits while the rest of the worlds blogs their frustration and insignificance...c'mon down here and nobody gives a shit who you are or where you dragged your sorry ass down from...best people in the entire hemisphere

too damn hot

231

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:41:57pm

re: #222 ggt

I think it would be hard for us to go the way of the British Empire. We don't have colonies to lose.

We are unlike any country past or present. The world is unlike it has ever been. We are a global economy. We have global diplomatic corps -per se-in the United Nations. Transportation, communications are all global now.

Like it or not, each country has to think globally while maintaining sovereignty within it's own borders. National integrity is important. Much like our States vs Federal constant struggles.

I do think the US is going to have to accept that our "greatness" is going to seem less as the rest of the world develops IN OUR IMAGE. We have to accept that other countries might do some things better than we do. We have to step up to the plate if we want to compete in a world we have have had a large hand in developing.

It's a tough game, but we did a lot to create it. Our children may and probably will have to find work in other countries. We will have to be bi- or tri- lingual to compete.

Welcome to the Brave New World!

Beautiful.

I only see things differently in regards to our kids. I believe they will clean up the mess we made.

This country has a tremendous capacity to self correct.

232

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:42:00pm

re: #217 researchok

Arianna Huffington said it very well.

The Tea Party is less about politics than it is about 'attitude' and frustration of voters.

Thing about it is that the Tea Party is not one unified movement, it hasn't been in awhile. Ron Paul's heading one wing, Palin another, Bachmann another, and so forth. There is no one leader, no one set of commandments, no one ultimate goal. And I think that's really going to become more obvious in the primaries, as the various factions break ranks and attack each other over which candidate they wish to brand as carrying their approval.

233

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:42:45pm

My sister is a Class A psycho asshole.re: #229 albusteve

historically, New Mexico has been a haven for crooks, liars, cheats, cattle thieves, murderers, gamblers, whores and every sort of bad person looking for refuge in a basically lawless land...nothing has changed and that's why I'm here...to lay low and gather my wits while the rest of the worlds blogs their frustration and insignificance...c'mon down here and nobody gives a shit who you are or where you dragged your sorry ass down from...best people in the entire hemisphere

California is actually kind of nice. The only asshole around here though is my sister. Oops. Did I say that? I wasn't supposed to say that.

234

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:43:25pm

BRB. Gotta smoke a cig.

235

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:43:35pm

re: #230 ggt

too damn hot

it's hardly intolerable...this isn't Yuma
I love the climate

236

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:43:46pm

re: #232 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Thing about it is that the Tea Party is not one unified movement, it hasn't been in awhile. Ron Paul's heading one wing, Palin another, Bachmann another, and so forth. There is no one leader, no one set of commandments, no one ultimate goal. And I think that's really going to become more obvious in the primaries, as the various factions break ranks and attack each other over which candidate they wish to brand as carrying their approval.

I agree.

The origins of the TP focused in spending.

Then the citizens led movement was hijacked by the conservative/evangelical professional agendistas.

The End.

237

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:44:23pm

re: #225 freetoken

I see that you are an optimist.

Well, the idea that more idiots will cause great wars and splinter the world's population into those with technological capabilities (electricity) and those without scares the shit out of me.

I prefer my version. Scary as it is.

238

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:45:37pm

re: #235 albusteve

it's hardly intolerable...this isn't Yuma
I love the climate

I've been there, it is intolerable.

239

laZardo Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:45:57pm

Headin' back home. BBL

240

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:46:25pm

re: #233 Gus 802

My sister is a Class A psycho asshole.

California is actually kind of nice. The only asshole around here though is my sister. Oops. Did I say that? I wasn't supposed to say that.

Was the plan for you to stay with her while you got set up here?

241

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:47:33pm

re: #238 ggt

I've been there, it is intolerable.

I'll bet you really hate palm trees then...or Caribbean beaches

242

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:47:43pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

Was the plan for you to stay with her while you got set up here?

If Gus is your campaign manager, you're in big trouble.
//

243

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:48:45pm

Electricity is a big concern, IMHO.

It's not just a matter of our "addiction to Saudi Oil" (which is it's own non issue).

How many more people in the world would be exploited if electricity became scarce? The strong would have the weak doing their laundry in the stream. I don't think it would be a matter of skin color.

244

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:49:09pm

re: #241 albusteve

I'll bet you really hate palm trees then...or Caribbean beaches

I hate heat. Especially dry heat.

245

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:49:28pm

re: #242 researchok

If Gus is your campaign manager, you're in big trouble.
//

I wouldn't trust him with a lunch reservation
jus kidding

246

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:50:42pm

re: #236 researchok

I agree.

The origins of the TP focused in spending.

Then the citizens led movement was hijacked by the conservative/evangelical professional agendistas.

The End.

I see what happened with the Tea Party movement to be much like what happened with the "anti-war movement" of the 00's, as in movements that became little more than umbrellas for people to throw hatred at the sitting president and his political party. I know some folks in the audience won't agree, but there were many in the anti-war movement who were in it because they were anti-Bush, not because they were particularly anti-war. It became pretty obvious what was going on when ANSWER was using anti-war protests as impromptu fund drives.

247

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:50:58pm

re: #245 albusteve

I wouldn't trust him with a lunch reservation
jus kidding

I told SFZ to run for office. She is remarkably consistent.

I'd vote for her predicated on that alone.

248

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:51:40pm

re: #233 Gus 802

My sister is a Class A psycho asshole.

California is actually kind of nice. The only asshole around here though is my sister. Oops. Did I say that? I wasn't supposed to say that.

I'm so very sorry. If it were possible, I'd loan you one of mine.

249

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:51:46pm

re: #244 ggt

I hate heat. Especially dry heat.

maybe your ancestors were penguins eh?
swimming down those ice holes, reveling in the frigid waters
kelp!

250

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:52:54pm

re: #247 researchok

I told SFZ to run for office. She is remarkably consistent.

I'd vote for her predicated on that alone.

she needs to cop an attitude...you know, get angry

251

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:53:14pm

re: #248 EmmmieG

I'm so very sorry. If it were possible, I'd loan you one of mine.

Loan? Why loan?

In these tough economic times, renting her out might make more sense.

252

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:53:26pm

re: #249 albusteve

maybe your ancestors were penguins eh?
swimming down those ice holes, reveling in the frigid waters
kelp!

They were definitely Northern European.

I do not tolerate the heat at all. Chicago summers can be hard for me. I like it about 65 degrees.

253

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:53:28pm

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

Was the plan for you to stay with her while you got set up here?

Yeah. But my sister has a vivid imagination and thinks of herself as a psychologist/medical doctor. Even though most of the time she's watching Ellen, soap operas, and the latest talent show on TV. I can't take it anymore. She's just a royal pain in the ass and won't listen to anyone except the voice in her seriously loner head.

254

Shiplord Kirel Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:53:40pm

OT
It's been quite a while since I debuted a new consumer product photoshoppe here. Who better to serve as an inspiration for this revival than our friend, Dim Jim Hoft. His nickname has always reminded me of a popular line of tasty but nutritionally disastrous snack products, so this is the result:
DimJim Teabag Bullshit flavor

255

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:54:16pm

re: #250 albusteve

she needs to cop an attitude...you know, get angry

She doesn't have that in her.

Besides that, anger only works when you can't make a point. She doesn'y have that problem.

256

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:55:47pm

re: #253 Gus 802

Yeah. But my sister has a vivid imagination and thinks of herself as a psychologist/medical doctor. Even though most of the time she's watching Ellen, soap operas, and the latest talent show on TV. I can't take it anymore. She's just a royal pain in the ass and won't listen to anyone except the voice in her seriously loner head.

Ugh. Sorry.

257

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:56:09pm

re: #252 ggt

They were definitely Northern European.

I do not tolerate the heat at all. Chicago summers can be hard for me. I like it about 65 degrees.

I understand...
it's hard to be an Eskimo...
but 65 and I'm freezing my ass off

258

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:56:09pm

re: #251 researchok

Loan? Why loan?

In these tough economic times, renting her out might make more sense.

I just went rummaging in my witty reply bag and came up empty. You'll have to wait until tomorrow.

259

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:56:16pm

re: #255 researchok

She doesn't have that in her.

Besides that, anger only works when you can't make a point. She doesn'y have that problem.

Hey, I can do angry...I don't normally need it around here.

260

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:56:21pm

re: #242 researchok

If Gus is your campaign manager, you're in big trouble.
//

I've been keeping my nose clean. I have my problems but made 1600 in invoicing while here so far and have more coming in. Denver work. I don't play loud music. I do most everything she asks but she's still being a psycho moonbat douche bag. It sucks. Trust me. This sucks.

261

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:57:28pm

re: #260 Gus 802

I've been keeping my nose clean. I have my problems but made 1600 in invoicing while here so far and have more coming in. Denver work. I don't play loud music. I do most everything she asks but she's still being a psycho moonbat douche bag. It sucks. Trust me. This sucks.

Check your email manana

262

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:57:28pm

re: #257 albusteve

I understand...
it's hard to be an Eskimo...
but 65 and I'm freezing my ass off

wimp

263

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:57:51pm

re: #262 ggt

wimp

forgot sarc tag

kinda ;)

264

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:57:51pm

re: #253 Gus 802

Yeah. But my sister has a vivid imagination and thinks of herself as a psychologist/medical doctor. Even though most of the time she's watching Ellen, soap operas, and the latest talent show on TV. I can't take it anymore. She's just a royal pain in the ass and won't listen to anyone except the voice in her seriously loner head.

*Best Clinton voice* I feel your pain.

265

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:57:55pm

And when I don't do something like close the gate right after her first ~~instruction~~ order she calls me retarded. That's a hoot. My IQ is miles above that moron.

266

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:58:12pm

re: #260 Gus 802

I've been keeping my nose clean. I have my problems but made 1600 in invoicing while here so far and have more coming in. Denver work. I don't play loud music. I do most everything she asks but she's still being a psycho moonbat douche bag. It sucks. Trust me. This sucks.

I have a brother like that.

Shithead.

That's his name.

267

albusteve Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:58:49pm

re: #253 Gus 802

Yeah. But my sister has a vivid imagination and thinks of herself as a psychologist/medical doctor. Even though most of the time she's watching Ellen, soap operas, and the latest talent show on TV. I can't take it anymore. She's just a royal pain in the ass and won't listen to anyone except the voice in her seriously loner head.

on your way back to Denver, you might stop at the bunkhouse for a week...blow your mind dude...you haven't lived til you see how I live

268

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:58:50pm

re: #265 Gus 802

And when I don't do something like close the gate right after her first ~~instruction~~ order she calls me retarded. That's a hoot. My IQ is miles above that moron.

Sounds like she opens her mouth to hear herself speak. I'd ignore it.

269

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:59:25pm

re: #267 albusteve

on your way back to Denver, you might stop at the bunkhouse for a week...blow your mind dude...you haven't lived til you see how I live

Why doesn't he just bunk at the LGF sekrit lair in Denver?

270

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:59:31pm

Am I the only person here with terrific siblings?

Hmm. Maybe I should rent them out.

271

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 9:59:48pm

re: #259 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey, I can do angry...I don't normally need it around here.

Well, next time I'm in SF I want a really over the top recommendation to the 3 best burger places in town.

OVER THE TOP

272

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:00:53pm

re: #266 researchok

I have a brother like that.

Shithead.

That's his name.

Yep. Tonight's "incident" she came to me. Started off by joking around. Then she went psycho. I was sitting here minding my own business and being quiet. She made a bunch of shit up too. She's trying to blame these hives I got from being eaten by mosquitoes on some crazy psychological syndrome. It's not psychological I told her. It's the fucking mosquitoes and me scratching my knee like crazy in the sun. Everything is always some hyped up bullshit with her.

273

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:00:55pm

re: #270 EmmmieG

Am I the only person here with terrific siblings?

Hmm. Maybe I should rent them out.

My siblings are cool save for Shithead.

My sister is my favorite.

274

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:02:35pm

re: #272 Gus 802

Yep. Tonight's "incident" she came to me. Started off by joking around. Then she went psycho. I was sitting here minding my own business and being quiet. She made a bunch of shit up too. She's trying to blame these hives I got from being eaten by mosquitoes on some crazy psychological syndrome. It's not psychological I told her. It's the fucking mosquitoes and me scratching my knee like crazy in the sun. Everything is always some hyped up bullshit with her.

Don't you get it?

In her eyes, you are the perfect target.

At some point, you will leave. There will be no ongoing repurcussins to deal with.

275

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:04:55pm

re: #274 researchok

Don't you get it?

In her eyes, you are the perfect target.

At some point, you will leave. There will be no ongoing repurcussins to deal with.

That's what I effectively told her. But told here that I didn't care. Of course she kept on pretending to care while being an utter douche bag. She's nuts. I was having some problems but tried to avoid her. Now, after this, I realized that now she'll come to me to continue her trouble making ways. It's insane.

276

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:06:00pm

re: #272 Gus 802

Yep. Tonight's "incident" she came to me. Started off by joking around. Then she went psycho. I was sitting here minding my own business and being quiet. She made a bunch of shit up too. She's trying to blame these hives I got from being eaten by mosquitoes on some crazy psychological syndrome. It's not psychological I told her. It's the fucking mosquitoes and me scratching my knee like crazy in the sun. Everything is always some hyped up bullshit with her.

"Hmmmm, hives caused by psych issues, aggravated by mosquitos. . . Wow, I never thought of that. Can you find a research study on that, I'd love to read it. Have you ever been on Pubmed.gov?"

I could have a lot of fun with your sister.

277

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:06:49pm

re: #273 researchok

My siblings are cool save for Shithead.

My sister is my favorite.

I vacillate between favorites. There's the one that's fifteen months older than me. There's the way-cooler-than-me brother. There's the amazing sister (four kids, oldest is five, is running her own business). There's the geek queen sister. I think my favorite right now is the baby brother (sixteen years younger than me), because he's going through some tough times and needs to be the favorite.

278

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:07:06pm

re: #275 Gus 802

That's what I effectively told her. But told here that I didn't care. Of course she kept on pretending to care while being an utter douche bag. She's nuts. I was having some problems but tried to avoid her. Now, after this, I realized that now she'll come to me to continue her trouble making ways. It's insane.

Ah...she's the 'caretaker'- with control privileges.

279

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:08:50pm

re: #278 researchok

Ah...she's the 'caretaker'- with control privileges.

Exactly. Too weird.

280

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:09:00pm

re: #278 researchok

Ah...she's the 'caretaker'- with control privileges.

The co-dependent types can be a pain. But, in my evil moments, I have a lot can have a lot of fun.

281

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:09:36pm

re: #277 EmmmieG

I vacillate between favorites. There's the one that's fifteen months older than me. There's the way-cooler-than-me brother. There's the amazing sister (four kids, oldest is five, is running her own business). There's the geek queen sister. I think my favorite right now is the baby brother (sixteen years younger than me), because he's going through some tough times and needs to be the favorite.

Uh, left out one. That won't do. There's the one that looks most like me and that is fun to talk to.

282

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:09:39pm

re: #277 EmmmieG

I vacillate between favorites. There's the one that's fifteen months older than me. There's the way-cooler-than-me brother. There's the amazing sister (four kids, oldest is five, is running her own business). There's the geek queen sister. I think my favorite right now is the baby brother (sixteen years younger than me), because he's going through some tough times and needs to be the favorite.

I'm the oldest child.

I was her protector and she reinforced that by coming to me as a confidante, so to speak.

That and I beat up the boy in 5th grade who tried to take 'liberties' with her.

I was her 7th grade hero.

283

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:09:44pm

I'm an only child. Family dynamics mystify me.

284

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:10:20pm

re: #272 Gus 802

Yep. Tonight's "incident" she came to me. Started off by joking around. Then she went psycho. I was sitting here minding my own business and being quiet. She made a bunch of shit up too. She's trying to blame these hives I got from being eaten by mosquitoes on some crazy psychological syndrome. It's not psychological I told her. It's the fucking mosquitoes and me scratching my knee like crazy in the sun. Everything is always some hyped up bullshit with her.

I knew a gal like that in college.

We haven't spoken in an age.

It's nice like that.

285

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:10:22pm

re: #280 ggt

The co-dependent types can be a pain. But, in my evil moments, I have a lot can have a lot of fun.

Exquisite fun.

Clearly, you have siblings.

286

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:10:53pm

re: #283 ggt

I'm an only child. Family dynamics mystify me.

Boy, I got that wrong!!

287

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:11:18pm

re: #285 researchok

Exquisite fun.

Clearly, you have siblings.

See my #283.

I think the fact than I don't is why I can be so objective.

288

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:11:21pm

re: #284 SanFranciscoZionist

I knew a gal like that in college.

We haven't spoken in an age.

It's nice like that.

She was also into being more Pagan than thou--not hard in my case--and magical influences on stuff.

289

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:11:56pm

re: #288 SanFranciscoZionist

She was also into being more Pagan than thou--not hard in my case--and magical influences on stuff.

Ah, the truly lost.

290

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:13:02pm

re: #287 ggt

See my #283.

I think the fact than I don't is why I can be so objective.

There is great joy in exacting revenge for a sibling who messed with you.

291

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:13:54pm

re: #289 ggt

Ah, the truly lost.

Or, a run of the mill jackass.

292

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:14:19pm

re: #290 researchok

There is great joy in exacting revenge for a sibling who messed with you.

But you have to deal with them the rest of your/their lives.

293

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:15:50pm

re: #292 ggt

But you have to deal with them the rest of your/their lives.

Not so bad....

With one exception I get along with all my siblings.

And I'm crazy about all my nephews and nieces.

294

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:15:59pm

Speaking of xenophobia and science fiction and all:

How do you think the world's population would react if we really made "first contact".

Would liberal/conservative boundries continue as they are now?

295

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:16:28pm

I remember trying to figure out why my mother's family gets along so well and has stood by each other despite their major differences and through so much garbage, when their cousins are rip and tear.

I decided it was the parents. My grandmother rocked. Okay, they had issues with her being an Alpha Plus female (my sister takes after her, more than a little), but she was "enough Mom" for them.

Then I learned that my great aunt had had a huge tragedy in her life that had been kept secret. She had lived for decades with guilt and grief.

No wonder. She was too crippled to be the mother that they needed.

296

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:17:29pm

re: #295 EmmmieG

I remember trying to figure out why my mother's family gets along so well and has stood by each other despite their major differences and through so much garbage, when their cousins are rip and tear.

I decided it was the parents. My grandmother rocked. Okay, they had issues with her being an Alpha Plus female (my sister takes after her, more than a little), but she was "enough Mom" for them.

Then I learned that my great aunt had had a huge tragedy in her life that had been kept secret. She had lived for decades with guilt and grief.

No wonder. She was too crippled to be the mother that they needed.

secrets seem to be really, really bad for families.

297

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:17:43pm

re: #294 ggt

Speaking of xenophobia and science fiction and all:

How do you think the world's population would react if we really made "first contact".

Would liberal/conservative boundries continue as they are now?

Depends on the circumstances of "first contact."

298

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:17:51pm

re: #284 SanFranciscoZionist

I knew a gal like that in college.

We haven't spoken in an age.

It's nice like that.

Yeah. Then she tried to blame it on my smoking. I was like "smoking?" Then it evolved to smoking causing allergies and then reminded her that I had serious hay fever well before I even started smoking. Of course it evolved from there into a whole bunch of other psycho bullshit. Apparently I was also an alcoholic well before I started drinking (pop psychology 101) so then I reminded her that I was pretty straight laced before I met her boyfriend. Just kidding with her but she didn't like that. It's true though even though I really don't give a shit about the chronology of my life.

So yeah. I'm looking at a spider on the wall now too. There's not only mosquitoes everywhere but tons of spiders. I get bitten and hives and I have some stupid nervous breakdown instead. What an idiot.

299

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:19:13pm

re: #295 EmmmieG

I remember trying to figure out why my mother's family gets along so well and has stood by each other despite their major differences and through so much garbage, when their cousins are rip and tear.

I decided it was the parents. My grandmother rocked. Okay, they had issues with her being an Alpha Plus female (my sister takes after her, more than a little), but she was "enough Mom" for them.

Then I learned that my great aunt had had a huge tragedy in her life that had been kept secret. She had lived for decades with guilt and grief.

No wonder. She was too crippled to be the mother that they needed.

Life is not like a fine watch or clock, where everything has to be just so and everything has to work together.

We are a flawed lot.

300

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:20:03pm

re: #299 researchok

Life is not like a fine watch or clock, where everything has to be just so and everything has to work together.

We are a flawed lot.

Yes, but a woman doesn't accidentally kill her own child, keep it a secret, and come out functional.

There is garden variety flawed, and then there is seriously messed up.

301

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:20:33pm

re: #296 ggt

secrets seem to be really, really bad for families.

Always bad.

That doesn't mean there should never be secrets, but the fewer the better

302

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:21:17pm

re: #300 EmmmieG

Yes, but a woman doesn't accidentally kill her own child, keep it a secret, and come out functional.

There is garden variety flawed, and then there is seriously messed up.

Tragic.

303

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:21:25pm

re: #297 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Depends on the circumstances of "first contact."

Really? I think the fact that their are any non-Earthlings out there would be enough to cause some people to totally FREAK out.

The TV pundits would be having a field day.

Because, first of all, the non-Earthlings would OBVIOUSLY not be Christian. Would they have souls?

The implications would be unfathomable to many.

I can hear it now: "Reagan was right with his "Star Wars" . . . . ."

304

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:21:51pm

re: #289 ggt

Ah, the truly lost.

Well, the truly irritating.

305

Shiplord Kirel Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:22:22pm

re: #270 EmmmieG

Am I the only person here with terrific siblings?

Hmm. Maybe I should rent them out.

Since Charles Manson was an only child, I probably have the worst sibling of anyone born in the twentieth century. I refer of course to my notorious brother Judas (whose real name I refuse to use anymore). He had an illicit affair with my first wife, ran off with her, tried to illegally adopt my daughter, and finally became a leading teabagger, theocrat, creationist, and anti-gay hate-monger in his adopted region of New England. He also refused to chip in for my mother's new garage doors.

306

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:22:54pm

re: #294 ggt

Speaking of xenophobia and science fiction and all:

How do you think the world's population would react if we really made "first contact".

Would liberal/conservative boundries continue as they are now?

It would really, really depend on what first contact was like, and how alien was the aliens, I would thing. I mean, "Independence Day" would be a whole different scene from "V", from "District 9".

307

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:23:00pm

re: #300 EmmmieG

Yes, but a woman doesn't accidentally kill her own child, keep it a secret, and come out functional.

There is garden variety flawed, and then there is seriously messed up.

Let me be more specific.

Much as we want to believe- and need to believe in redemption, there are some things that cannot be fixed.

We can be forgiven, of course, but in the end, there are just some things we cannot fix.

308

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:23:16pm

re: #303 ggt

Really? I think the fact that their are any non-Earthlings out there would be enough to cause some people to totally FREAK out.

The TV pundits would be having a field day.

Because, first of all, the non-Earthlings would OBVIOUSLY not be Christian. Would they have souls?

The implications would be unfathomable to many.

I can hear it now: "Reagan was right with his "Star Wars" . . ."

I think it has a lot to do with how we're approached. Do they come with peaceful intentions and the desire to enlighten us and introduce us to the galactic stage?

Or are they simply here for our planet and consider us an inconvenient "pestilence" that has to be exterminated before the strip-mining can begin?

309

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:23:48pm

re: #307 researchok

Let me be more specific.

Much as we want to believe- and need to believe in redemption, there are some things that cannot be fixed.

We can be forgiven, of course, but in the end, there are just some things we cannot fix.

We need to forgive ourselves. I don't know if I could forgive myself something like that.

310

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:24:32pm

Otherwise I really am fuming and biting my tongue. Big time. Seriously big time.

311

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:24:36pm

re: #305 Shiplord Kirel

Since Charles Manson was an only child, I probably have the worst sibling of anyone born in the twentieth century. I refer of course to my notorious brother Judas (whose real name I refuse to use anymore). He had an illicit affair with my first wife, ran off with her, tried to illegally adopt my daughter, and finally became a leading teabagger, theocrat, creationist, and anti-gay hate-monger in his adopted region of New England. He also refused to chip in for my mother's new garage doors.

As the man said, 'Some guys have all the luck, some guys have all the pain'.

312

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:24:51pm

re: #300 EmmmieG

Yes, but a woman doesn't accidentally kill her own child, keep it a secret, and come out functional.

There is garden variety flawed, and then there is seriously messed up.

One of my mother's cousins had something very similar to that happen, and she made it through. It wasn't kept secret, though, although I was in my thirties before anyone told me the story.

313

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:26:03pm

re: #308 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I think it has a lot to do with how we're approached. Do they come with peaceful intentions and the desire to enlighten us and introduce us to the galactic stage?

Or are they simply here for our planet and consider us an inconvenient "pestilence" that has to be exterminated before the strip-mining can begin?

Regardless, some would never believe "peaceful" intentions of some group obviously more powerful than us (they got here and we can't travel like that). Others would want to make "peace at any price".

Let's say "first contact" was a transmission thru SETI (it is SETI isn't it). A simple "Hello, are you there?" message.

314

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:26:15pm

re: #312 SanFranciscoZionist

One of my mother's cousins had something very similar to that happen, and she made it through. It wasn't kept secret, though, although I was in my thirties before anyone told me the story.

I think the fact that she lied about showed the guilt she felt very clearly.

Maybe if she could have opened up about it, and enough people reminded her that it was an accident, who knows.

315

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:26:19pm

re: #309 ggt

We need to forgive ourselves. I don't know if I could forgive myself something like that.

That is the hardest forgiveness to find.

316

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:26:39pm

re: #310 Gus 802

Otherwise I really am fuming and biting my tongue. Big time. Seriously big time.

Best advice: Find an outlet for the rage, post haste. Because otherwise, you're gonna keep biting your tongue and holding it in until one day, she says something or does something that uncorks that dam.

I recommend video games, as they're my drug of choice.

317

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:27:03pm

re: #314 EmmmieG

I think the fact that she lied about showed the guilt she felt very clearly.

Maybe if she could have opened up about it, and enough people reminded her that it was an accident, who knows.

People spend a lifetime blaming themselves for accidents.

318

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:27:16pm

re: #313 ggt

Regardless, some would never believe "peaceful" intentions of some group obviously more powerful than us (they got here and we can't travel like that). Others would want to make "peace at any price".

Let's say "first contact" was a transmission thru SETI (it is SETI isn't it). A simple "Hello, are you there?" message.

Ever see/read Contact?

319

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:27:28pm

re: #316 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Best advice: Find an outlet for the rage, post haste. Because otherwise, you're gonna keep biting your tongue and holding it in until one day, she says something or does something that uncorks that dam.

I recommend video games, as they're my drug of choice.

Video games would probably drive her crazy --good idea (evil :))

And headphones so you can't hear her.

320

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:27:35pm

re: #316 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Best advice: Find an outlet for the rage, post haste. Because otherwise, you're gonna keep biting your tongue and holding it in until one day, she says something or does something that uncorks that dam.

I recommend video games, as they're my drug of choice.

I'm listening to Hendrix now.

321

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:27:42pm

re: #312 SanFranciscoZionist

One of my mother's cousins had something very similar to that happen, and she made it through. It wasn't kept secret, though, although I was in my thirties before anyone told me the story.

Actually, I was let in on it when I was ten, in the fight that ended my mother's relationship with her siblings permanently, but I didn't understand what my aunt was screaming about, so that doesn't count.

322

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:27:49pm

re: #318 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Ever see/read Contact?

Yeah.

Not public enough for my senerio.

323

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:28:02pm

re: #320 Gus 802

I'm listening to Hendrix now.

As long as you're not lighting guitars on fire, that's a good choice.

324

Holidays are Family Fun Time Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:28:44pm

I gotta go.

Have a great morning all!

325

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:29:30pm

I can be up another hour or so, and then I gotta get to bed. Work in the AM.

326

Mostly sane, most of the time. Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:29:33pm

Sleep is a necessity, as soon I will be camping with teenage girls, and I need all the fortifications I can get.

327

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:30:31pm

re: #322 ggt

Yeah.

Not public enough for my senerio.

I see it as exactly the sort of scenario you're talking. If tomorrow, the world was informed that SETI had received a transmission from what they believed to be another intelligence species, the responses would be across the spectrum. You could generally break it down into three camps: Those who are ecstatic, those who are nonplussed, and those who are scared/angry.

328

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:33:19pm

I have 3 regrets.

The first is a day I wish I could take back. I did everything wrong and caused much grief.

The second has to do with my father. I never realized just how big an influence he was in in my life till years after the fact. I wish I had sought his advice and counsel ought long before I did.

The third has to do with the 'girl who got away'. Biggest mistake of my life. I think of her daily. Really.

329

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:34:15pm

re: #208 researchok

Yeah, as soon as I saw that I knew I screwed up.

And thank you for that musical selection to illustrate the point.
//

Heh. I must confess, I was pretty much just using your post as an excuse to link that song. I dig the Black Keys.

330

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:34:50pm

re: #329 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh. I must confess, I was pretty much just using your post as an excuse to link that song. I dig the Black Keys.

Glad to be of service!

331

Shiplord Kirel Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:36:42pm

re: #311 researchok

As the man said, 'Some guys have all the luck, some guys have all the pain'.

I've had my share of luck too, and it's been my experience that revenge will take care of itself. It can also be amusing. The other day I laughed out loud when I ran across a blog entry in which Judas was holding forth on the "Biblical fact" that "marriage must be between one man and one woman." He apparently meant one man at a time, regardless of whom else had been married to her. Of course, he necessarily ignored the Biblical fact and dire consequences of Leviticus 18:16

332

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:38:08pm

re: #331 Shiplord Kirel

I've had my share of luck too, and it's been my experience that revenge will take care of itself. It can also be amusing. The other day I laughed out loud when I ran across a blog entry in which Judas was holding forth on the "Biblical fact" that "marriage must be between one man and one woman." He apparently meant one man at a time, regardless of whom else had been married to her. Of course, he necessarily ignored the Biblical fact and dire consequences of Leviticus 18:16

Perhaps he considers himself to be in a preemptive Levirate marriage.

333

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:38:24pm

re: #331 Shiplord Kirel

I've had my share of luck too, and it's been my experience that revenge will take care of itself. It can also be amusing. The other day I laughed out loud when I ran across a blog entry in which Judas was holding forth on the "Biblical fact" that "marriage must be between one man and one woman." He apparently meant one man at a time, regardless of whom else had been married to her. Of course, he necessarily ignored the Biblical fact and dire consequences of Leviticus 18:16

The best revenge of all comes when the event that caused the grief becomes meaningless.

334

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:42:07pm

Weird. My WinAmp disappears after I start playing some music.

335

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:43:17pm

re: #334 Gus 802

Weird. My WinAmp disappears after I start playing some music.

Hendrix.

That's why.

336

Usually refered to as anyways Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:44:30pm

re: #328 researchok

The third has to do with the 'girl who got away'. Biggest mistake of my life. I think of her daily. Really.

You can keep that memory forever now, as all you have is the past to relate to.
Its not possible to know how it would have worked out with time.

Sorry, not meaning to sound critical.
I have lost a soul mate after 25 years, my current partner should not pay for this, but she does. ;(

337

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:45:09pm

Speaking of video games, I haven't played any in awhile. Maybe that's why my blood pressure's been higher than the stock market recently.

338

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:45:38pm

Alright, I'm outta here.

Manana all.

As usual, Gus is in charge- and he has a taser.

339

researchok Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:46:33pm

re: #336 ozbloke

You can keep that memory forever now, as all you have is the past to relate to.
Its not possible to know how it would have worked out with time.

Sorry, not meaning to sound critical.
I have lost a soul mate after 25 years, my current partner should not pay for this, but she does. ;(

Oh, I understand. Completely.

340

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:47:03pm

re: #333 researchok

The best revenge of all comes when the event that caused the grief becomes meaningless.

Some events simply can not lose their meaning, in as much as certain events must retain their meaning in order for the lesson of certain events to have a permanent affect.

As I have come to understand vengeance on a personal level, I think the best revenge, for me at least, is not to seek it. But that is for common slights.

Do harm to my kith or kin, serious criminal harm, and your best bet is to hope the police find you first.

341

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:48:29pm

re: #338 researchok

Alright, I'm outta here.

Manana all.

As usual, Gus is in charge- and he has a taser.

Thanks. Don't worry. Contrary to what some people might think. I'm cool.

342

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:49:28pm

re: #334 Gus 802

Weird. My WinAmp disappears after I start playing some music.

It hates you for your fickle nature regarding LGF avatars. Seriously, you change 'em quicker than a hooker changes panties. I can't even pick you out of a crowd anymore.
/

343

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:50:52pm

re: #341 Gus 802

Thanks. Don't worry. Contrary to what some people might think. I'm cool.

Lies! You're not cool, you're cruel! Evil! Down with the tyran...*ZAP!*

///

344

Gus Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:52:18pm

re: #342 Slumbering Behemoth

It hates you for your fickle nature regarding LGF avatars. Seriously, you change 'em quicker than a hooker changes panties. I can't even pick you out of a crowd anymore.
/

That's alright by me. That's Del McCoury. I'm also going to vote Republican in 2012 so that way my sister can't get another useless student loan for another useless degree for some career change she's never managed to pursue without freaking out about something or another.

345

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:53:32pm

re: #343 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Lies! You're not cool, you're cruel! Evil!

Sorry. I am failing to see how these things are mutually exclusive.
/

346

SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:53:47pm

re: #344 Gus 802

That's alright by me. That's Del McCoury. I'm also going to vote Republican in 2012 so that way my sister can't get another useless student loan for another useless degree for some career change she's never managed to pursue without freaking out about something or another.

Stafford was a Republican.

Jus' saying.

347

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 10:55:26pm

re: #346 SanFranciscoZionist

Stafford was a ~~Republican~~ fucking RINO.

Jus' saying.

FTFY ;)

348

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:04:15pm

Alright, somebody start talking or I shoot this iPad!

349

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:06:26pm

re: #344 Gus 802

That's alright by me. That's Del McCoury. I'm also going to vote Republican in 2012 so that way my sister can't get another useless student loan for another useless degree for some career change she's never managed to pursue without freaking out about something or another.

I am shocked.. Just shocked!

Youtube Video

350

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:07:02pm

re: #337 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Speaking of video games, I haven't played any in awhile. Maybe that's why my blood pressure's been higher than the stock market recently.

Video games save lives. You can take that to the bank.

I recently picked up a used copy of Ass. Creed II, dirt cheap. Having fun with that.

351

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:07:45pm

re: #348 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Alright, somebody start talking or I shoot this iPad!

/

Shh! Quick, everybody STFU. This is gonna be awesome.

352

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:07:50pm

re: #350 Slumbering Behemoth

Video games save lives. You can take that to the bank.

I recently picked up a used copy of Ass. Creed II, dirt cheap. Having fun with that.

You picked up used ass? nice...

353

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:09:06pm

re: #350 Slumbering Behemoth

Video games save lives. You can take that to the bank.

I recently picked up a used copy of Ass. Creed II, dirt cheap. Having fun with that.

Yeah, I need to start playing again. I've got at least two games that I bought and have yet to actually play.

354

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:09:17pm

re: #352 boxhead

They are all used. Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something.

355

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:09:44pm

re: #353 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Yeah, I need to start playing again. I've got at least two games that I bought and have yet to actually play.

Which two?

356

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:10:00pm

re: #355 Slumbering Behemoth

Which two?

Bioshock 2 and CoD: Black Ops.

357

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:10:14pm

re: #354 Slumbering Behemoth

They are all used. Anyone who tells you different is trying to sell you something.

You mean all those muslim bombers have been lied too! I am shocked! heh..

358

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:10:55pm

re: #356 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Bioshock 2 and CoD: Black Ops.

i just bought and am playing bioshock 1. good game

359

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:11:59pm

re: #356 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Bioshock 2 and CoD: Black Ops.

Funny, I picked up B2 for $9.99 at the same time I picked up ACII. Haven't played it yet, so NO SPOILERS!!!

360

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:12:57pm

re: #359 Slumbering Behemoth

Funny, I picked up B2 for $9.99 at the same time I picked up ACII. Haven't played it yet, so NO SPOILERS!!!

people die digitally... :) and you see dead people

361

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:13:14pm

I'm sitting here though, looking at the two games I haven't played, and at the same time pondering whether or not to buy Duke Nukem Forever when it comes out Tuesday. Or just go down the Gamestop anyway and see how many people try to redeem reserve slips that go back to the turn of the century.

362

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:14:10pm

re: #360 boxhead

people die digitally... :) and you see dead people

People? Just a buncha ones and zeros, man. They're all just a buncha ones and zeros.
/

363

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:15:29pm

re: #361 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm sitting here though, looking at the two games I haven't played, and at the same time pondering whether or not to buy Duke Nukem Forever when it comes out Tuesday. Or just go down the Gamestop anyway and see how many people try to redeem reserve slips that go back to the turn of the century.

there are bald dudes who had a full head of hair when that game was first announced! I will definitely buy it.

Full disclaimer: I still have full head of hair.

364

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:16:20pm

re: #361 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm sitting here though, looking at the two games I haven't played, and at the same time pondering whether or not to buy Duke Nukem Forever when it comes out Tuesday. Or just go down the Gamestop anyway and see how many people try to redeem reserve slips that go back to the turn of the century.

I like the way you think. I may just make a circuit of my local Gamestops on Tuesday.
/no, I won't

365

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:18:21pm

Just out of curiosity, what with you two being gamers...

What unreleased titles, or recently released titles, are y'all looking forward too?

366

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:18:32pm

re: #364 Slumbering Behemoth

I like the way you think. I may just make a circuit of my local Gamestops on Tuesday.
/no, I won't

Well, I'll probably do it mostly because I have Tuesday off, and other than plans for that evening, will be mostly bored out of my skull.

367

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:18:47pm

re: #365 Slumbering Behemoth

Just out of curiosity, what with you two being gamers...

What unreleased titles, or recently released titles, are y'all looking forward too?

diablo 3

368

Alexzander Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:19:17pm

Glad to see others online right now.

369

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:20:55pm

re: #368 Alexzander

Glad to see others online right now.

glad to be seen... digitally, non anthony wiener style

370

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:22:06pm

re: #366 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Well, I'll probably do it mostly because I have Tuesday off, and other than plans for that evening, will be mostly bored out of my skull.

Fucking Varek Raith! That son of a bitch told me that he would let me know when his "Skull Boring/Plan Stealing" device would be ready. That is the last time I take that double-dealing backstabber at his word!
/

371

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:22:44pm

re: #365 Slumbering Behemoth

Just out of curiosity, what with you two being gamers...

What unreleased titles, or recently released titles, are y'all looking forward too?

The big one I'm waiting on just got pushed back til March of next year, and that's Mass Effect 3. Dead Island looks excellent, as does the new Deus Ex game. CoD and Battlefield might be worth a look, though I'm getting a bit burned out on war games.

372

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:23:28pm

re: #367 boxhead

diablo 3

Never been a fan of the series, but "3" does look pretty cool. I doubt my outdated machine could run it, though.

373

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:25:04pm

re: #372 Slumbering Behemoth

Never been a fan of the series, but "3" does look pretty cool. I doubt my outdated machine could run it, though.

loved all of them... for that matter, as a PC gamer, Blizzard has never let me down. Although I do not play WoW cause I am cheap... LOL

374

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:28:42pm

I'm usually a big PC gamer, but right now my system is absolute shite, so until I can scrounge up the money to buy a new one, it's console gaming for me. Not that that's a bad thing, considering most of the games I play work best on consoles, with the exception of first person shooters.

375

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:29:33pm

re: #374 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

other than blizzard games, I tend to play nothing but FPS. :)

376

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:32:39pm

re: #375 boxhead

other than blizzard games, I tend to play nothing but FPS. :)

For me, FPS games are meant to be played with keyboard and mouse, because that's what I was taught. I've gotten to the point now where I can competently fight in FPS games with a controller, but I still don't feel I've got anywhere near the accuracy I did with a mouse.

377

Alexzander Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:33:48pm

OT: I hear a lot about Jim Hoft and Pamela what-ever-her-name is on LGF, who are both in the wing-nut category. What legitimate (if any) right-of-center blogs or websites do people here still read? I read RedState from time to time just to see what one angle of the right is absorbing from the mediasphere.

378

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:34:49pm

re: #371 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Mass Effect is just okay. I do like that they revived the old device of actions in previous games being carried over into sequels.

Dead Island... Well, I love sandbox games, and I love killing zombies, so I'll probably dig that one even if it sucks. It seems to have some RPG elements as well, which is a genre I once favored.

DE3? I am a big fan of the first, and still have a copy that I dust off now and again. Love the whole premise. Not liking the demo they did where a great many things are visually highlighted, like so. I hope it comes with the option of turning that off, 'cuz I don't like games that engage in that kind of "hand holding". For me, it takes out a great deal of the challenge in playing such multi-path games.

379

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:36:25pm

re: #376 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

For me, FPS games are meant to be played with keyboard and mouse, because that's what I was taught. I've gotten to the point now where I can competently fight in FPS games with a controller, but I still don't feel I've got anywhere near the accuracy I did with a mouse.

Keyboard and mouse on PC is what I use... I have not spent any significant time on a console since C64 and that was still a PC.

lol

380

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:37:20pm

re: #373 boxhead

loved all of them... for that matter, as a PC gamer, Blizzard has never let me down. Although I do not play WoW cause I am cheap... LOL

I too do not play WoW because I'm cheap. That, and I am well aware of my addictive nature when it comes to video games. I have categorically avoided MMORPGs since the moment I learned of them.

381

Alexzander Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:39:01pm

re: #380 Slumbering Behemoth

Same. Last thing I need right now is a WoW addiction. I'll still to the regular internet and beer.

382

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:40:31pm

re: #377 Alexzander

OT: I hear a lot about Jim Hoft and Pamela what-ever-her-name is on LGF, who are both in the wing-nut category. What legitimate (if any) right-of-center blogs or websites do people here still read? I read RedState from time to time just to see what one angle of the right is absorbing from the mediasphere.

I still read Heritage Foundation. Not that I agree with is posted, they have not gone all crazy.

(disclaimer: I have not really read them lately so I hope I do not make myself look like an ass :)

383

Alexzander Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:43:04pm

re: #382 boxhead

Thanks I've never really checked them out. PS dont worry about agreeing with it. I agree with less than 90 percent of what I read politically (that might even count for the content here at LGF too; depends on how picky I want to be). Never-the-less, I like to absorb honest opinions from across the spectrum so that I can consider them myself and form my own meta-opinion.

384

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:43:37pm

re: #380 Slumbering Behemoth

I too do not play WoW because I'm cheap. That, and I am well aware of my addictive nature when it comes to video games. I have categorically avoided MMORPGs since the moment I learned of them.

Cheap in time and cash. WoW makes you fish all day to advance... WTF! LOL

Although I must admit, I spent WAY tool much time on Diablo 2. D1 was great, D2 online was too much! There was a hidden level full of cows that was both stupid and fun. Oh and the cows dropped lots of goodies.

385

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:43:40pm

re: #374 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I'm usually a big PC gamer, but right now my system is absolute shite, so until I can scrounge up the money to buy a new one, it's console gaming for me. Not that that's a bad thing, considering most of the games I play work best on consoles, with the exception of first person shooters.

I refuse to invest in "up to date" PC hardware unless something like this crawls back to life.
/or maybe this

386

Targetpractice Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:46:40pm

re: #378 Slumbering Behemoth

Mass Effect is just okay. I do like that they revived the old device of actions in previous games being carried over into sequels.

I think what I really like about the Mass Effect series has been the fairly tight and enjoyable story, something Bioware seems to do well. Yeah, there were things I didn't like about the first two games, whether it be driving the Mako in the first or mining planets in the second, but the gameplay has been fairly challenging and interesting.

Dead Island... Well, I love sandbox games, and I love killing zombies, so I'll probably dig that one even if it sucks. It seems to have some RPG elements as well, which is a genre I once favored.

Yeah, I hadn't even heard about it til a few months ago, now after seeing the gameplay footage, I'm actually interested in buying it. Perhaps it'll finally offer the sort of gameplay that Dead Rising only really teased at.

DE3? I am a big fan of the first, and still have a copy that I dust off now and again. Love the whole premise. Not liking the demo they did where a great many things are visually highlighted, like so. I hope it comes with the option of turning that off, 'cuz I don't like games that engage in that kind of "hand holding". For me, it takes out a great deal of the challenge in playing such multi-path games.

I've heard you're supposed to be able to turn that off, so no worries there. But yeah, I agree that I hate the idea of a game pretty much highlighting things, as though we're too thick to figure out what items we need to grab and which we don't.

387

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:48:54pm

re: #383 Alexzander

Thanks I've never really checked them out. PS dont worry about agreeing with it. I agree with less than 90 percent of what I read politically (that might even count for the content here at LGF too; depends on how picky I want to be). Never-the-less, I like to absorb honest opinions from across the spectrum so that I can consider them myself and form my own meta-opinion.

Check out the radio program, "Left, Right, and Center" on KCRW, public radio. IMHO, it is the best show with diverse points of view minus yelling. They treat each other with respect, like the old days on Firing Line with William F. Buckley, Jr.

Left Right and Center

388

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:49:58pm

re: #381 Alexzander

Same. Last thing I need right now is a WoW addiction. I'll still to the regular internet and beer.

A) I find video games addictive. For me.
B) I find an online community such as LGF addictive. For me.

For me, A+B= an emaciated Behemoth with a beard that reaches his toes, and a painful, physical reaction to direct sunlight.

A man's gotta know his limitations, amirite?

389

boxhead Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:50:45pm

re: #381 Alexzander

Same. Last thing I need right now is a WoW addiction. I'll still to the regular internet and beer.

Beeeerrrrr... ahhhhhhh

390

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Jun 12, 2011 11:59:46pm

re: #386 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I've heard you're supposed to be able to turn that off, so no worries there. But yeah, I agree that I hate the idea of a game pretty much highlighting things, as though we're too thick to figure out what items we need to grab and which we don't.

I should hope so. I find a lot of the "go here, grab that, push this" kind of thing takes the fun out the whole experience. I recently finished (rented) Portal 2. No "hand holding" in that one, and genuinely entertaining and challenging. I don't know how Valve can top that.

391

Targetpractice Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:02:11am

re: #390 Slumbering Behemoth

I should hope so. I find a lot of the "go here, grab that, push this" kind of thing takes the fun out the whole experience. I recently finished (rented) Portal 2. No "hand holding" in that one, and genuinely entertaining and challenging. I don't know how Valve can top that.

Finally releasing Half-Life 2: Episode 3. That's if they can find time to stop digging deeper into people's pockets for accessories on Team Fortress 2.

392

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:11:28am

re: #391 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Finally releasing Half-Life 2: Episode 3. That's if they can find time to stop digging deeper into people's pockets for accessories on Team Fortress 2.

That's another thing I don't much care for in this new DLC gaming environment.

"Hey, here's some shit we meant to include in the original game, but had to cut due to contractual release date deadlines. Only $9.99, and you can have it, soft copy. Oh, and we have at least another six cutting floor remnants coming for you at the same price. How do you like paying $130+ for the game we would have released in full if we had the time? Yeah, that's what we thought, bitch"!

393

Targetpractice Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:19:46am

re: #392 Slumbering Behemoth

That's another thing I don't much care for in this new DLC gaming environment.

"Hey, here's some shit we meant to include in the original game, but had to cut due to contractual release date deadlines. Only $9.99, and you can have it, soft copy. Oh, and we have at least another six cutting floor remnants coming for you at the same price. How do you like paying $130+ for the game we would have released in full if we had the time? Yeah, that's what we thought, bitch"!

I can see that on the one hand, on the other I can see it as a way of keeping a game fresh for awhile longer. Adding a few missions, a few new weapons, even a costume change can make things interesting again. But when you're nickel and diming players for hats, that's just insane.

394

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:33:55am

re: #393 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I can see that on the one hand, on the other I can see it as a way of keeping a game fresh for awhile longer. Adding a few missions, a few new weapons, even a costume change can make things interesting again. But when you're nickel and diming players for hats, that's just insane.

They've hit on a new economic model for games in the DLC age, that is for sure. It irritates me, but I can't really fault them. I fault the gamers. No one is holding a gun to their heads.

As for me, I stick to my old school economic model... wait for that shit to hit the bargain bin.

For instance, Fallout 3 (and rounding up by just a single penny in every case):

FO3 @ $60 + 5 DLCs @ $10 = $110.

The Behemoth Waits: GOTY Edition, fully patched, with all DLCs included @ $30.

Mama Behemoth may have raised a dummy, but at least she raised a frugal dummy.

395

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:45:08am

re: #394 Slumbering Behemoth

For instance, Fallout 3 (and rounding up by just a single penny in every case):

Err... and also not including sales tax.
/drp

396

freetoken Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:32:38am

MP3 Audio

397

freetoken Mon, Jun 13, 2011 1:52:32am

The Peanuts, with "Passion Flower", the version from the 1950's (and not the inferior 1960's re-recording):

MP3 Audio

Beethoven is smiling.

398

SpaceJesus Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:02:49am

Cool video on making dinosaurs out of chickens

Youtube Video

399

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:06:37am

Morning Honcos. Was in bed at 9 last night. Up at 4AM. Went for a mile and a half walk. Humidity is about 87%. 80 degrees. Can't wait 'til the sun comes up!!

400

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:14:11am

Guy gets caught putting cameras in bathroom(s), doesn't wait around to face the music.

401

SpaceJesus Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:18:37am

I can't believe you're awake and doing things and I am up drinking and thinking about dinosaurs

402

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:31:54am

re: #401 SpaceJesus

I can't believe you're awake and doing things and I am up drinking and thinking about dinosaurs

Been a while since I've had a good night of drinking. But my intake always backs down a bit during the summer months.

403

freetoken Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:35:24am

re: #401 SpaceJesus

You might be pleased to learn that this years Evolution meeting, Evolution2011, is being held in ... OKLAHOMA!

[Link: www.evolution2011.ou.edu...]

A big gathering, it does have its public outreach:

EVOLUTION 101: A K-14 teacher workshop is offered to regional teachers on Friday, June 17th. Science educators from across the state of Oklahoma are invited to join evolutionary biologists and other science educators for “Evolution 101” – a one day workshop to be held at the Embassy Suites Hotel and Conference Center in Norman, Oklahoma on June 17th. Come learn about recent research in the field of evolution, talk with evolutionary biologists, and attend sessions that feature hands-on activities for teaching evolution to all ages.

We can only hope.

404

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:35:47am

re: #400 Cannadian Club Akbar

Guy gets caught putting cameras in bathroom(s), doesn't wait around to face the music.

My radio just said this guy shot himself. Guess he didn't have any rope.

405

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:37:57am

re: #403 freetoken

Do creationist ever protest at events like this?

406

freetoken Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:39:31am

re: #405 Cannadian Club Akbar

Don't know. One could look at the past gatherings and see what happened.

407

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:40:30am

re: #406 freetoken

Don't know. One could look at the past gatherings and see what happened.

Did a google search. Found groups but nothing about actually protesting a meeting.

408

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 2:59:52am

re: #407 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did a google search. Found groups but nothing about actually protesting a meeting.

Westboro Baptist Church protest at Comic-Con in San Diego. The counter protest. Look for the kitty!!!!
[Link: www.comicsalliance.com...]

409

iceweasel Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:01:29am

re: #408 Cannadian Club Akbar

Westboro Baptist Church protest at Comic-Con in San Diego. The counter protest. Look for the kitty!!!
[Link: www.comicsalliance.com...]

"God hates Jedi"-- ha!

410

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:05:19am

re: #409 iceweasel

Those douchebags tried to protest the funeral of a soldier literally 2 blocks away from where I am sitting. Then some bikers showed up....heh.

411

iceweasel Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:06:38am

re: #410 Cannadian Club Akbar

Those douchebags tried to protest the funeral of a soldier literally 2 blocks away from where I am sitting. Then some bikers showed up...heh.

Now that sounds like a story with a happy ending. ;)

I liked the time their car broke down and no one in the town would fix it.

412

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:08:55am

re: #411 iceweasel

Now that sounds like a story with a happy ending. ;)

I liked the time their car broke down and no one in the town would fix it.

Didn't hear about the car breaking down. I would have put a sign in the window saying God Hates (make/model of their car).

413

iceweasel Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:12:21am

re: #412 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't hear about the car breaking down. I would have put a sign in the window saying God Hates (make/model of their car).

Westboro Baptist Church Gets Tires Slashed, Locals Refuse To Perform Repairs

414

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:16:19am

re: #413 iceweasel

Westboro Baptist Church Gets Tires Slashed, Locals Refuse To Perform Repairs

I wouldn't have slashed the tires, but removing the schrader valve would be funny. (the schrader valve is the little thingy inside the stem that keeps the air in)

415

iceweasel Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:17:09am

re: #414 Cannadian Club Akbar

I wouldn't have slashed the tires, but removing the schrader valve would be funny. (the schrader valve is the little thingy inside the stem that keeps the air in)

You sound like a man who knows his vandalism!

I like that.

416

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:22:05am

re: #415 iceweasel

You sound like a man who knows his vandalism!

I like that.

When I was a kid, there was an abandoned house in the neighborhood that my friend's and I decided to turn into a summer home. Almost got caught. (I was a bad child)

417

researchok Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:37:45am

Morning, all

418

iceweasel Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:43:38am

re: #417 researchok

Morning, all

Tell us stories of childhood vandalism! ;) Morning.

419

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:49:54am

re: #418 iceweasel

Tell us stories of childhood vandalism! ;) Morning.

We played Cowboys and Indians--real fire, real stake. That's when mom decided I needed more time with the nuns. 'Morning

420

researchok Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:51:18am

re: #418 iceweasel

Tell us stories of childhood vandalism! ;) Morning.

It was a lot worse than vandalism.

And that's as far as I'll go.

421

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:52:10am

I just found out that "I'm taking my talents to South Beach" has become a euphamism for...

1. masturbation
2. telling someone to go fuck themselves
3. taking a crap.

That made me laugh.

422

researchok Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:54:13am

re: #421 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just found out that "I'm taking my talents to South Beach" has become a euphamism for...

1. masturbation
2. telling someone to go fuck themselves
3. taking a crap.

That made me laugh.

Have another cup of coffee.

Please.
//

423

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:54:16am

This might be important to remember this morning if we are talking about stoopid shit we did as kids.:)
[Link: legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...]

424

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:54:36am

euphemism... I even had the red squiggly line and didn't fix it.

Oops.

425

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:55:12am

re: #414 Cannadian Club Akbar

I wouldn't have slashed the tires, but removing the schrader valve would be funny. (the schrader valve is the little thingy inside the stem that keeps the air in)

That's how the nice people slash tires in Cannada.

426

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:56:30am

re: #421 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I just found out that "I'm taking my talents to South Beach" has become a euphamism for...

1. masturbation
2. telling someone to go fuck themselves
3. taking a crap.

That made me laugh.

4. Coming in second.
And let's remember, second place is first loser.

427

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:56:43am

re: #423 Cannadian Club Akbar

This might be important to remember this morning if we are talking about stoopid shit we did as kids.:)
[Link: legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...]

"Statute of Limitations" is the only term I look for.

428

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:57:55am

re: #427 Decatur Deb

"Statute of Limitations" is the only term I look for.

I have my lawyers number programed in my phone. Just in case.

429

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:00:04am

re: #428 Cannadian Club Akbar

Never been busted, but I've arranged a bit of bail.

430

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:04:45am

re: #429 Decatur Deb

Never been busted, but I've arranged a bit of bail.

My brother's friend who was staying at my parent's house (I stay there to be centrally located) got out on bail (battery on a LEO). Then got caught skateboarding at an elementary skool, while out on bail, in the middle of the night. Now? NO BAIL!!! I tried to warn him.

431

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:06:30am

Sun's up, finishing coffee and out of here. (Trying to change the compulsive dog to an early morning walk, we've been in the 100's for a while.)

432

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:08:30am

re: #430 Cannadian Club Akbar

My brother's friend who was staying at my parent's house (I stay there to be centrally located) got out on bail (battery on a LEO). Then got caught skateboarding at an elementary skool, while out on bail, in the middle of the night. Now? NO BAIL!!! I tried to warn him.

Punching a cop in Alabama is still unwise. They're integrated, but no smaller than in Bull Connor's day.

433

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:09:30am

re: #432 Decatur Deb

Punching a cop in Alabama is still unwise. They're integrated, but no smaller than in Bull Connor's day.

He didn't hit a cop. He spit on 2 cops. Dude ain't right.

434

Tigger2005 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:10:20am

re: #143 Charles

I seriously doubt it will turn around again. The long term trend is toward progress and against racism. The GOP still exploits racist feelings because they are the reactionary party, longing to return to the bad old days. And it's not just the racism -- they're also reactionary in terms of women's rights, gay rights, and science. All of these things are part of the whole, and it's not a pretty picture.

We can only hope the GOP will shrink and cease to be relevant in American politics and another, conservative but not reactionary political party will emerge to replace it.

435

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:11:44am

re: #433 Cannadian Club Akbar

He didn't hit a cop. He spit on 2 cops. Dude ain't right.

They never take that the way you mean it...

436

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:16:50am

Checked Weather Underground--we're up for 101 today and tomorrow. Gotta do what I'm gonna do. BBL

437

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:21:14am

Clarence Clemons (Bruce Springsteen and the East Street Band) has had a stroke. Bummer.
[Link: www.allaccess.com...]

438

RogueOne Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:37:03am

Morning all. This article sounded a lot more fun than it turned out:

The Weiner Workout
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

439

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:43:35am

re: #438 RogueOne

Morning all. This article sounded a lot more fun than it turned out:

The Weiner Workout
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

When I think of a Weiner Workout, I picture hanging weights from it ala the "Jim Rose Side Show". :)

440

RogueOne Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:45:56am

re: #439 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I think of a Weiner Workout, I picture hanging weights from it ala the "Jim Rose Side Show". :)

I saw the Jim Rose Travelling Circus in Omaha NE years ago. They were one of the opening acts. Hilarious and very disturbing.

441

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:55:43am

Have you guys been up all night talking about video games, seriously?

How is everyone?

442

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:01:45am

re: #441 ggt

Have you guys been up all night talking about video games, seriously?

How is everyone?

Haven't you ever seen some of the geek threads here?

443

lazardo Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:04:07am

re: #441 ggt

Have you guys been up all night talking about video games, seriously?

How is everyone?

Psyched.

Youtube Video

444

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:05:12am

re: #443 lazardo

Psyched.

[Video]

BFD. Ever heard of Asteroids? Space Invaders? Robotron?
/

445

Randy W. Weeks Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:06:26am

re: #439 Cannadian Club Akbar

When I think of a Weiner Workout, I picture hanging weights from it ala the "Jim Rose Side Show". :)

Oh, no. I am so sorry to hear about that. Love his sax playing.

446

RogueOne Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:08:13am

At least this politico knows how to have a real sex scandal...you actually have to have sex!

State Rep. Investigated For ‘Inappropriate Behavior’ In House Chamber
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

It seems that budget fights turn him on. To each his own I guess.

447

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:11:08am

re: #446 RogueOne

At least this politico knows how to have a real sex scandal...you actually have to have sex!

State Rep. Investigated For ‘Inappropriate Behavior’ In House Chamber
[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

It seems that budget fights turn him on. To each his own I guess.

REAL sex, now who ever thought of that?

448

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:11:11am

re: #446 RogueOne

All I can hear in my head is the dialogue George had with his boss when he was caught having sex with the cleaning lady on Seinfeld. "Was that wrong"? Heh.

449

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:12:44am

re: #448 Cannadian Club Akbar

All I can hear in my head is the dialogue George had with his boss when he was caught having sex with the cleaning lady on Seinfeld. "Was that wrong"? Heh.

Youtube Video

450

lazardo Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:16:30am

re: #444 Cannadian Club Akbar

BFD. Ever heard of Asteroids? Space Invaders? Robotron?
/

WHAT ARE YOU, FIFTY?

451

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:17:26am

Donkey Kong, Mario Brothers, Pacman . . . .

452

Targetpractice Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:17:27am

re: #450 lazardo

WHAT ARE YOU, FIFTY?

/

Is this a blog or a retirement home?

453

Flounder Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:17:49am

I've been to South Beach, is it nice?!

454

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:18:08am

re: #453 Shropshire_Slasher

I've been to South Beach, is it nice?!

Don't remember?

455

RogueOne Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:18:26am

Busy day ahead, gotta run

456

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:19:53am

re: #455 RogueOne

Busy day ahead, gotta run

Have a good one!

457

Flounder Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:19:54am

re: #453 Shropshire_Slasher

oops, Ive NEVER been to South Beach PIMF
dangit

458

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:20:31am

re: #136 researchok

Nope, no wash.

The Dems are in bed with those people in the same way the GOP got into bed with the TP.

And there is the moral question of silence in the face of racism, etc.

I suspect we are not so far apart. Our differences are less substantive than they are about definitions.

Tu quoque doesn't cut it.l

459

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:20:53am

re: #457 Shropshire_Slasher

oops, Ive NEVER been to South Beach PIMF
dangit

teehee!

460

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:21:42am

re: #453 Shropshire_Slasher

I've been to South Beach, is it nice?!

Well, on Ocean Drive there are a bunch of Modeling agencies. And across the street is a portion of the beach which is topless.

461

Flounder Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:21:58am

Ok I actually gotta go to work, my turn to drive piles.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Lotsa love all!

462

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:23:43am

re: #452 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Is this a blog or a retirement home?

/

Just be quiet!! And hand me my pudding.
/

463

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:26:54am

re: #453 Shropshire_Slasher

I've been to South Beach, is it nice?!

Today? Not so much...

464

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:27:37am

re: #462 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just be quiet!! And hand me my pudding.
/

Reminds me of a funny thing - I asked my Rabbi for a sit-down over tea this week (it'll be later today), and I asked whether the rebbetzin could join us, as I needed a woman's advice on this thing as well.

He looks at me, deadpan. "Rebbetzin? What are you, 90? We're Reform, I know you're Conservative, but that doesn't give you the right...."

465

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:28:53am

re: #462 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just be quiet!! And hand me my pudding.
/

But you can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat!

466

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:29:11am

re: #465 ggt

But you can't have your pudding if you don't eat your meat!

You! Yes you, stand still, laddy!

467

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:29:26am

re: #464 Guanxi88

Reminds me of a funny thing - I asked my Rabbi for a sit-down over tea this week (it'll be later today), and I asked whether the rebbetzin could join us, as I needed a woman's advice on this thing as well.

He looks at me, deadpan. "Rebbetzin? What are you, 90? We're Reform, I know you're Conservative, but that doesn't give you the right..."

Well, if you're meeting him to talk about women troubles, I'll save you some time: You were wrong. Just apologize. Hope this helps.

468

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:30:13am

re: #467 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, if you're meeting him to talk about women troubles, I'll save you some time: You were wrong. Just apologize. Hope this helps.

Eh, thing is, it's not exactly about that sort of thing. That whole complicated OTHER woman thing I've got going on.

469

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:30:20am

re: #464 Guanxi88

Reminds me of a funny thing - I asked my Rabbi for a sit-down over tea this week (it'll be later today), and I asked whether the rebbetzin could join us, as I needed a woman's advice on this thing as well.

He looks at me, deadpan. "Rebbetzin? What are you, 90? We're Reform, I know you're Conservative, but that doesn't give you the right..."

The "rebbetzin" is the rabbi's wife. If it's a reform congregation, the "rebbetzin" could be a man.

470

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:31:13am

re: #468 Guanxi88

Eh, thing is, it's not exactly about that sort of thing. That whole complicated OTHER woman thing I've got going on.

You are still wrong, just apologize.

Remember, behind every successful man is a woman,
telling him he is wrong . .

471

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:31:34am

re: #468 Guanxi88

Eh, thing is, it's not exactly about that sort of thing. That whole complicated OTHER woman thing I've got going on.

You've got OTHER woman problems and I can't get a date. Life ain't fair.:)

472

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:31:57am

re: #469 Alouette

The "rebbetzin" is the rabbi's wife. If it's a reform congregation, the "rebbetzin" could be a man.

And the Rabbi would be very surprised, indeed. Still, they're Reform, so different strokes. (Surprisingly, it's hard for me to find a Conservative temple within less than 100 miles of my home. Odd, living in semi-rural Texas, I thought there'd be plenty to choose from.)

473

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:32:12am

re: #471 Cannadian Club Akbar

You've got OTHER woman problems and I can't get a date. Life ain't fair.:)

What about a fig?

474

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:32:58am

re: #471 Cannadian Club Akbar

You've got OTHER woman problems and I can't get a date. Life ain't fair.:)

It's feast or famine - I lived like an anchorite for years, then got married (somehow or other) and then all of a sudden.....

475

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:33:31am

re: #474 Guanxi88

It's feast or famine - I lived like an anchorite for years, then got married (somehow or other) and then all of a sudden...

ah, you became safe. . .

476

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:34:07am

re: #474 Guanxi88

It's feast or famine - I lived like an anchorite for years, then got married (somehow or other) and then all of a sudden...

I had a friend years ago who would wear a wedding band when going out to the bars. It worked.

477

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:34:42am

re: #475 ggt

ah, you became safe. . .

Yes, I've heard that word quite a bit. Something of an insult, in fact. What red-blooded man wants a woman to think of him as "safe" anyway?

478

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:35:02am

re: #476 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had a friend years ago who would wear a wedding band when going out to the bars. It worked.

Yeah, I've never understood, but I guess a married man is less likely to be a violent freak.

479

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:35:22am

re: #477 Guanxi88

Yes, I've heard that word quite a bit. Something of an insult, in fact. What red-blooded man wants a woman to think of him as "safe" anyway?

One who wants to get laid.

480

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:35:30am

re: #476 Cannadian Club Akbar

I had a friend years ago who would wear a wedding band when going out to the bars. It worked.

Thing is, I don't wear a ring - lost my last one ages ago, and the Bitter Half kept throwing hers at me in anger, and so we just sorta stopped wearing them.

481

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:36:56am

re: #480 Guanxi88

Thing is, I don't wear a ring - lost my last one ages ago, and the Bitter Half kept throwing hers at me in anger, and so we just sorta stopped wearing them.

I fakes a marriage once, with a girl I worked with. I wore a wedding ring. Fucking hated it. (FWIW, I don't wear any jewelry)

482

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:38:03am

re: #481 Cannadian Club Akbar

fakes=faked, pimf.

483

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:38:12am

re: #481 Cannadian Club Akbar

I fakes a marriage once, with a girl I worked with. I wore a wedding ring. Fucking hated it. (FWIW, I don't wear any jewelry)

Good man. Hell, I stopped wearing a wristwatch when I inherited my grandfather's pocket watch. Quite a sense of liberation, you know - no jewelry at all. Nothing to suggest anything.

484

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:41:50am

re: #479 ggt

Things with this other one - we've known each other twenty years - never were, and never will tend, along those lines. It's odd; I guess that's the best word - odd. We corresponded for 10 years (even during the first years of her marriage, unbeknownst to me) and then stopped when I got married (the future wife found the correspondence and went simian-feces).

And then all of a sudden, it started up again.

485

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:43:04am

re: #484 Guanxi88

Things with this other one - we've known each other twenty years - never were, and never will tend, along those lines. It's odd; I guess that's the best word - odd. We corresponded for 10 years (even during the first years of her marriage, unbeknownst to me) and then stopped when I got married (the future wife found the correspondence and went simian-feces).

And then all of a sudden, it started up again.

Let it go. You are married and have to keep your wife happy.

486

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:43:42am

re: #485 ggt

Let it go. You are married and have to keep your wife happy.

That's the way I'm tending, but need some advice on how to proceed. I mean, that's a hell of a long history to just cut off abruptly.

487

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:44:37am

re: #486 Guanxi88

That's the way I'm tending, but need some advice on how to proceed. I mean, that's a hell of a long history to just cut off abruptly.

No, you don't owe that person shit, you didn't marry her.

488

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:44:54am

re: #486 Guanxi88

That's the way I'm tending, but need some advice on how to proceed. I mean, that's a hell of a long history to just cut off abruptly.

Actually - given the circumstances (you're married; she's married as well?) - not really.

489

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:45:38am

re: #484 Guanxi88

Drop it. Drop it cold. Tear up correspondence. Delete emails without reading them. Run. Don't be stupid. Get out the back Jack. No need to be coy, Roy.

Shit. Now I'm quoting Rhymin' Simon...

490

Holidays are Family Fun Time Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:48:31am

gotta start my day.

Have a good one all!

491

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:48:48am

I was in a marriage that went sour.

And oh, it was so very tempting to seek attention elsewhere.

Went to counseling - the therapist convinced me it was in my best interests to deal with the marriage FIRST - then seek other companionship once I was truly free.

And he was absolutely right.

492

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:49:03am

re: #488 reine.de.tout

Yes, we're both married. It's - awkward - to say the least, the whole thing. I never would have thought to seek her out, and yet, somehow, she found me and I'm pretty much invisible) after all these years.

Flattering, of course, but awkward.

493

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:49:57am

re: #492 Guanxi88

Yes, we're both married. It's - awkward - to say the least, the whole thing. I never would have thought to seek her out, and yet, somehow, she found me and I'm pretty much invisible) after all these years.

Flattering, of course, but awkward.

Tweet her some photographs. CC: Andrew Breitbart. Problem solved.

494

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:50:38am

re: #492 Guanxi88

Yes, we're both married. It's - awkward - to say the least, the whole thing. I never would have thought to seek her out, and yet, somehow, she found me and I'm pretty much invisible) after all these years.

Flattering, of course, but awkward.

It's flattering - and that is exactly why you are having difficulty breaking it off. You find it flattering - as anyone would! It's normal. But seriously - it's not in YOUR best interests to do this thing, until you've dealt with the marriage. If the marriage can be repaired - good. If not, then you move on when you're free.

495

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:50:47am

re: #492 Guanxi88

Hop on the bus, Gus.

DAMMIT!

496

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:51:04am

re: #491 reine.de.tout

I was in a marriage that went sour.

And oh, it was so very tempting to seek attention elsewhere.

Went to counseling - the therapist convinced me it was in my best interests to deal with the marriage FIRST - then seek other companionship once I was truly free.

And he was absolutely right.

Well, did you fix the marriage or seek other companionship?

497

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:51:16am

re: #493 Decatur Deb

Tweet her some photographs. CC: Andrew Breitbart. Problem solved.

Hell, there's enough sadness and ugliness in this world without photos of my mug floating around.

498

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:51:48am

re: #493 Decatur Deb

Tweet her some photographs. CC: Andrew Breitbart. Problem solved.

Bigger problems created.

499

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:52:08am

re: #493 Decatur Deb

Tweet her some photographs. CC: Andrew Breitbart. Problem solved.

Of me...

500

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:52:08am

re: #495 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hop on the bus, Gus.

DAMMIT!

Just drop off the key, Lee,
And get yourself free.

501

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:52:21am

re: #496 Cannadian Club Akbar

Well, did you fix the marriage or seek other companionship?

The marriage ended.

I continued counseling for another couple of years.

Then I found the Roi. And life is great.

502

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:53:45am

re: #501 reine.de.tout

The marriage ended.

I continued counseling for another couple of years.

Then I found the Roi. And life is great.

Happy ending, or as close as this life can provide to one.

503

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:54:53am

re: #502 Guanxi88

Happy ending, or as close as this life can provide to one.

If I don't have a happy ending soon, someone is gonna get hurt.
/

504

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:55:48am

re: #502 Guanxi88

Happy ending, or as close as this life can provide to one.

Yep.

But the point is - deal with the marriage first.

The other thing just adds to the weight of your problems; that it's flattering feels good to you right now; but it's not the best way to get yourself & your situation straightened out.

505

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:55:48am

re: #503 Cannadian Club Akbar

If I don't have a happy ending soon, someone is gonna get hurt.
/

Sir, this is NOT that kind of establishment.

506

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:56:58am

re: #504 reine.de.tout

Yep.

But the point is - deal with the marriage first.

The other thing just adds to the weight of your problems; that it's flattering feels good to you right now; but it's not the best way to get yourself & your situation straightened out.

hence, I'm meeting the Rabbi and his wife (the rebbetzin - haha!) today to see how best to go about untangling all of this mess. He and I disagree on a good many things, but I respect his judgment and tact.

507

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:58:42am

re: #506 Guanxi88

hence, I'm meeting the Rabbi and his wife (the rebbetzin - haha!) today to see how best to go about untangling all of this mess. He and I disagree on a good many things, but I respect his judgment and tact.

You're on the right track, then!
I hope things work out for you.

508

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 5:58:46am

re: #506 Guanxi88

You may need more of a kick in the nuts than you need tact. The Rabbi may oblige.

509

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:03:44am

Morning, all. A couple of observations on this Monday morning:

The Tony Awards were last night. The broadcast was really good, (Neal Patrick Harris/Doogie Howser was really funny. The opening number was "Broadway: it's not just for gays anymore!") and Book of Mormon kicked ass. I saw that musical a while back, and thought it was tremendous.

And the Heat lost. As a former Clevelander, that makes me very happy.

And finally, the Monday Krugman:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Sample:

And here’s what you need to know: Medicare actually saves money — a lot of money — compared with relying on private insurance companies. And this in turn means that pushing people out of Medicare, in addition to depriving many Americans of needed care, would almost surely end up increasing total health care costs.

The idea of Medicare as a money-saving program may seem hard to grasp. After all, hasn’t Medicare spending risen dramatically over time? Yes, it has: adjusting for overall inflation, Medicare spending per beneficiary rose more than 400 percent from 1969 to 2009.

But inflation-adjusted premiums on private health insurance rose more than 700 percent over the same period. So while it’s true that Medicare has done an inadequate job of controlling costs, the private sector has done much worse. And if we deny Medicare to 65- and 66-year-olds, we’ll be forcing them to get private insurance — if they can — that will cost much more than it would have cost to provide the same coverage through Medicare.

By the way, we have direct evidence about the higher costs of private insurance via the Medicare Advantage program, which allows Medicare beneficiaries to get their coverage through the private sector. This was supposed to save money; in fact, the program costs taxpayers substantially more per beneficiary than traditional Medicare.

510

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:04:40am

re: #506 Guanxi88

hence, I'm meeting the Rabbi and his wife (the rebbetzin - haha!

Rabbi: So, a woman desires your attentions, even though you are both married?
Gx: Yes, Rabbi.
Rabbi: And you are concerned about how this affects you as a Jew.
Gx: No, Rabbi. I'm actually a Catholic.
Rabbi: So, why are you telling me about this?
Gx: I'm telling everybody.

511

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:06:59am

re: #510 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Rabbi: So, a woman desires your attentions, even though you are both married?
Gx: Yes, Rabbi.
Rabbi: And you are concerned about how this affects you as a Jew.
Gx: No, Rabbi. I'm actually a Catholic.
Rabbi: So, why are you telling me about this?
Gx: I'm telling everybody.

You left out a critical component: the guy telling this to the rabbi is 90 years old!

512

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:08:19am

re: #511 Alouette

Well, I was going to throw in that she was really hot or sumsuch; Gx ain't that old. I just left it alone.

But most people've heard the joke, I imagine.

513

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:10:41am

The Rapture Guy, Harold Camping, has suffered a stroke.

I'll refrain from making any Rapture-for-Camping comments.

His family says he's OK, but has slightly slurred speech.

Oh, heck. I'm trying to be nice, but things just keep popping into my head.

514

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:12:36am

re: #513 reine.de.tout
I just deleted a comment.

515

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:12:54am

re: #509 garhighway

From the Krugman link:
And if we deny Medicare to 65- and 66-year-olds, we’ll be forcing them to get private insurance — if they can — that will cost much more than it would have cost to provide the same coverage through Medicare.

Who said to deny Medicare to these people?

516

laZardo Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:13:22am

re: #513 reine.de.tout

The Rapture Guy, Harold Camping, has suffered a stroke.

I'll refrain from making any Rapture-for-Camping comments.

His family says he's OK, but has slightly slurred speech.

Oh, heck. I'm trying to be nice, but things just keep popping into my head.

"Did you think it was just gonna be a painless teleportation to heaven?" - Jesus

/welp. there you go

517

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:15:01am

re: #515 Cannadian Club Akbar

From the Krugman link:
And if we deny Medicare to 65- and 66-year-olds, we’ll be forcing them to get private insurance — if they can — that will cost much more than it would have cost to provide the same coverage through Medicare.

Who said to deny Medicare to these people?

I didn't include the first few paragraphs of the column in my "sample". In those, he mentioned that Joe Leiberman had floated just such a proposal.

518

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:18:12am

re: #517 garhighway

I didn't include the first few paragraphs of the column in my "sample". In those, he mentioned that Joe Leiberman had floated just such a proposal.

Joe Lieberman who is a fully owned, bought and paid for subsidiary of Aetna, the health insurer, of course

519

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:19:32am

re: #518 WindUpBird

Joe Lieberman who is a fully owned, bought and paid for subsidiary of Aetna, the health insurer, of course

That's not fair. I think Travelers and The Hartford own small pieces of him, too.

520

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:20:05am

High today of 82. Sooo much more "like it".

521

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:21:10am

re: #515 Cannadian Club Akbar

From the Krugman link:
And if we deny Medicare to 65- and 66-year-olds, we’ll be forcing them to get private insurance — if they can — that will cost much more than it would have cost to provide the same coverage through Medicare.

Who said to deny Medicare to these people?

The Ryan plan would effectively do so, delayed by a couple election cycles for 'safety'. Ain't working.

522

darthstar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:21:41am

Mornin' pilgrims.

523

darthstar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:24:59am

Aw, crap...I hope he's able to recover.

Clarence Clemons had a stroke

524

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:25:43am

re: #521 Decatur Deb

The Ryan plan would effectively do so, delayed by a couple election cycles for 'safety'. Ain't working.

Under Ryan’s plan, people who turn 65 before 2022 would remain in traditional Medicare, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. Those who turn 65 in 2022 or after, the budget office said, would get a "premium support payment" from Medicare. Rather than getting health insurance from the government, Medicare recipients would use the payment toward the cost of buying private health insurance.

That’s a major change. Moreover, the Congressional Budget Office concluded that future Medicare recipients "would pay more for their health care than they would pay under the current Medicare system."

But when MoveOn.org declared that Ryan’s budget "abolishes Medicare within 10 years," the left-leaning political advocacy group earned a False from us, given that Medicare would change but not go away.

[Link: politifact.com...]

525

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:26:18am

re: #512 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well, I was going to throw in that she was really hot or sumsuch; Gx ain't that old. I just left it alone.

But most people've heard the joke, I imagine.

It also works with a 90-year-old Jewish guy telling the priest in a confessional.

526

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:26:51am

re: #525 Alouette

It also works with a 90-year-old Jewish guy telling the priest in a confessional.

That's how I heard it.

527

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:29:07am

re: #524 Cannadian Club Akbar

Under Ryan’s plan, people who turn 65 before 2022 would remain in traditional Medicare, according to an analysis by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. Those who turn 65 in 2022 or after, the budget office said, would get a "premium support payment" from Medicare. Rather than getting health insurance from the government, Medicare recipients would use the payment toward the cost of buying private health insurance.

That’s a major change. Moreover, the Congressional Budget Office concluded that future Medicare recipients "would pay more for their health care than they would pay under the current Medicare system."

But when MoveOn.org declared that Ryan’s budget "abolishes Medicare within 10 years," the left-leaning political advocacy group earned a False from us, given that Medicare would change but not go away.

[Link: politifact.com...]

Ryan would keep the name, just like Black and Decker keeps their name on Chinese stuff. Inflation and dependence on future legislative action makes the reality a joke.

528

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:29:52am

re: #525 Alouette

(but, he's going to see a Rabbi! sheesh!)
/

529

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:31:45am

re: #525 Alouette

re: #526 Cannadian Club Akbar

Everybody's a critic.

"Pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic." ~Jean Sibelius

530

William of Orange Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:35:36am

Side by side this wake-up call could be a mirror image against the one Charles had a few years before. And we can parallel Charles' wake-up call against the flack he got when he left the right wing bloggers. No doubt Barnes will be hit from the right wing of the right wing of his (former) party. I don't think he will move to the left, more like independent.

531

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:35:47am

re: #529 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #526 Cannadian Club Akbar

Everybody's a critic.

"Pay no attention to what the critics say. A statue has never been erected in honor of a critic." ~Jean Sibelius

Restaurant critics- former servers
Film critics- failed film skool

532

Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:41:44am

Lol@wingnut economics.....
CNN Panel Shoots Down Coulter's Attack On Keynesian Economics

533

Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:43:39am

Oh, Joy. There's a GOP debate tonight....
Let The Games Begin! A Guide To Tonight’s GOP Debate

534

darthstar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:43:52am

Heh...titled "Fun things to do in Bakersfield" by a fb friend who apparently moved there recently.

535

laZardo Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:45:58am

re: #532 Killgore Trout

Spitzer's had quite the comeback, I see.

536

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:46:00am

re: #508 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You may need more of a kick in the nuts than you need tact. The Rabbi may oblige.

Well, that's what he's paid for, isn't it?

537

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:46:28am

re: #534 darthstar

Heh...titled "Fun things to do in Bakersfield" by a fb friend who apparently moved there recently.

Sports talk show host Jim Rome calls Bakersfield "Bakersneck". :)

538

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:47:29am

re: #510 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Rabbi: So, a woman desires your attentions, even though you are both married?
Gx: Yes, Rabbi.
Rabbi: And you are concerned about how this affects you as a Jew.
Gx: No, Rabbi. I'm actually a Catholic.
Rabbi: So, why are you telling me about this?
Gx: I'm telling everybody.

Ya know what's funny? The Other Lady is.... Catholic.

539

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:49:40am

re: #533 Killgore Trout

Oh, Joy. There's a GOP debate tonight...
Let The Games Begin! A Guide To Tonight’s GOP Debate

Cain, Paul and Santorum for guaranteed craziness. Romney for bait in this rabbit hunt.

540

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:49:46am

re: #538 Guanxi88

Ya know what's funny? The Other Lady is... Catholic.

And I'm married with a Protestant.

541

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:50:00am

re: #527 Decatur Deb

Ryan would keep the name, just like Black and Decker keeps their name on Chinese stuff. Inflation and dependence on future legislative action makes the reality a joke.

Exactly. By Politifact's standard, if Ryan had proposed that Medicare get out of the health care business and instead just focused on moving the lawns of random citizens, Politifact would still say that it wasn't being abolished.

Going from the current system to a voucher worth maybe a third of the cost of coverage and dumping everyone into the clearly more inefficient private health care industry would be a disaster: less coverage at a higher cost. The only winners would be the private health insurance carriers (to the extent that they would even want to touch that business).

542

reloadingisnotahobby Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:50:55am

re: #537 Cannadian Club Akbar

There are many names for that armpi....place!
Where I live is like Bakersfield cica 1960....
Peace be upon Ya'll...

543

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:51:11am

re: #539 Decatur Deb

Cain, Paul and Santorum for guaranteed craziness. Romney for bait in this rabbit hunt.

Quandary for Romney: how do you demonstrate that you are the non-crazy candidate without coming across as just dull? That is a tough trick.

544

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:51:49am

re: #543 garhighway

Quandary for Romney: how do you demonstrate that you are the non-crazy candidate without coming across as just dull? That is a tough trick.

I know he's a Mormon, but a stiff drink or two can work wonders....

545

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:51:57am

re: #543 garhighway

Quandary for Romney: how do you demonstrate that you are the non-crazy candidate without coming across as just dull? That is a tough trick.

Take off a shoe and pound it on the podium.:)

546

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:53:05am

re: #537 Cannadian Club Akbar

Sports talk show host Jim Rome calls Bakersfield "Bakersneck". :)

He lost me with that entire Jim "Chrissy" Everett interview

547

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:53:14am

re: #543 garhighway

Quandary for Romney: how do you demonstrate that you are the non-crazy candidate without coming across as just dull? That is a tough trick.

Wear a "Book of Mormon" souvenir t-shirt.

548

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:53:20am

re: #542 reloadingisnotahobby

There are many names for that armpi...place!
Where I live is like Bakersfield cica 1960...
Peace be upon Ya'll...

Bakersfield: We gots more meth labs then Florida!!!

549

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:53:37am

re: #543 garhighway

Quandary for Romney: how do you demonstrate that you are the non-crazy candidate without coming across as just dull? That is a tough trick.

Balloon animals

Works every time

550

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:54:29am

re: #538 Guanxi88

Make her an immediate former lady.

I'm just sayin'. Not judging you.

551

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:54:49am

re: #546 sattv4u2

He lost me with that entire Jim "Chrissy" Everett interview

His radio show was actually small at that time.

552

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:55:03am

re: #548 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bakersfield: We gots more meth labs then Florida!!!

the tiny hill town that contained the crowded mile of my childhood had been identified as one of the leading manufacturing hubs for the stuff in my state. Large chemical industry, lotta unemployed chemists, bills to pay, etc., etc. Bad mix. Would been cheaper just to pay those guys to go on vacation in Bermuda than to clean up when they're done.

553

Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:55:41am

re: #539 Decatur Deb

Cain, Paul and Santorum for guaranteed craziness. Romney for bait in this rabbit hunt.

I'm looking forward to Bachmann. She's as nutty as it gets.

554

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:56:01am

re: #550 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Make her an immediate former lady.

I'm just sayin'. Not judging you.

Yep, I think I just need to hear it from the Rabbi, along with some words of advice on how best to do it without exacerbating things.

One's life can so easily get out of one's control.

555

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 6:57:40am

re: #553 Killgore Trout

I'm looking forward to Bachmann. She's as nutty as it gets.

Could be fun, no matter who gets in. Rather makes up for the expense and tedium of it all - the prospect of the entertainment value.

556

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:01:08am

All right, it's been a while. You guys have earned it, I suppose.

Behold! Ute Lemper sings La Vie en Rose:

Youtube Video

Enjoy.

557

Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:02:14am

re: #554 Guanxi88

Yep, I think I just need to hear it from the Rabbi, along with some words of advice on how best to do it without exacerbating things.

Note: If he tells you that she likes it when you slap her on the ass? He's not really a Rabbi. (Or he is, but just not a good one.)

558

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:04:19am

re: #557 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Note: If he tells you that she likes it when you slap her on the ass? He's not really a Rabbi. (Or he is, but just not a good one.)

Well, he is Reform.

(I kid, I kid. I kid because I love. No, seriously, Reform are great folk - you ever been to one of their Yom Kippur potlucks?)

559

Randy W. Weeks Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:05:18am

OT: We finally had to put Lacey (our 11 year old Lab/Retriever mix) to sleep yesterday. She had fought the cancer for two months, but had quit eating the last couple of days and then couldn't get up.

It's never easy, but it was quick and peaceful for her. My wife is heartbroken, but is better this morning. Gomer (our chocolate rescue Lab) is confused and keeps looking for his friend.

She was a good dog and member of our family and will be missed. I'm sure we'll have another rescue Lab by the end of the week. (as I type this my wife emails me about it)

560

mr.fusion Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:06:05am

re: #20 albusteve

so how exactly does the GOP toss people out of the party?

See: Crist, Charlie; Snowe, Olympia

561

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:06:13am

re: #559 LoneStarSpur

Manly handshake from one who's been there.

562

mr.fusion Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:07:07am

re: #559 LoneStarSpur

so so sad.......had to put my pooch down about a yr ago

it can be very hard.....best thoughts to you and your family

563

SanFranciscoZionist Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:07:18am

re: #559 LoneStarSpur

OT: We finally had to put Lacey (our 11 year old Lab/Retriever mix) to sleep yesterday. She had fought the cancer for two months, but had quit eating the last couple of days and then couldn't get up.

It's never easy, but it was quick and peaceful for her. My wife is heartbroken, but is better this morning. Gomer (our chocolate rescue Lab) is confused and keeps looking for his friend.

She was a good dog and member of our family and will be missed. I'm sure we'll have another rescue Lab by the end of the week. (as I type this my wife emails me about it)

I am so very sorry. Losing a dog is terrible. Give your wife, and Gomer, a hug for me.

564

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:08:55am

re: #560 mr.fusion

See: Crist, Charlie; Snowe, Olympia

With Charlie Crist, it was self inflicted.

565

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:10:49am

re: #551 Cannadian Club Akbar

His radio show was actually small at that time.

iirc,, it was a sit down interview in front of cameras

566

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:11:33am

re: #565 sattv4u2

iirc,, it was a sit down interview in front of cameras

Yes. On ESPN. Everett knocked him to the ground.

567

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:11:43am

re: #559 LoneStarSpur

{{{manly hug}}}}

bt/dt

568

Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:12:27am

re: #559 LoneStarSpur

I'm sorry to hear of your loss. It's always tough.

569

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:15:19am

And another self inflicted speed bump on the road to peace

Palestinian rivals at odds as unity talks near

[Link: www.boston.com...]

570

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:16:22am

re: #569 sattv4u2

And another self inflicted speed bump on the road to peace

Palestinian rivals at odds as unity talks near

[Link: www.boston.com...]

Aristotle argues that all tragedy springs from personal character flaws in the hero, or from improper social and political arrangements. Perhaps the old guy was onto something.

571

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:17:00am

re: #569 sattv4u2

And another self inflicted speed bump on the road to peace

Palestinian rivals at odds as unity talks near

[Link: www.boston.com...]

They will not get a state in September. They will find some way to totally blow the opportunity, as usual.

572

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:17:36am

re: #66 researchok

I take no issue whatsoever with this article.

That said, when the remark, "The problem being highlighted in this article is the institutionalized racism that is tolerated by the GOP that drove away a black man who considered himself a faithful conservative Republican", you make it sound as if there is a clear distinction between the racism of the right and that of the left.

Not quite accurate.

In most cases, it is. Being a former Black Republican myself, I can delineate them. My ticket out -- this was over 2 decades ago -- was somewhat similar...white conservative attitudes about South African apartheid, and of course their emotionally retarded ideas about our own version. I was already an expat by the time Clarence vs Anita Hill hit the news and was reminded again of why I left them. Not much has changed in attitude except the rhetoric.

Now that some time has passed after the Civil Rights movement, they're now trying to bombard us with transparent shyt such as "MLK was a Republican!!!!!1!!!!" and trotting out the 7 black see-and-be-seens on the tea party circuit as the truly-benighted black folks.

Lol like anyone has ever needed white conservative validation on black authenticity. LOL!

573

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:17:41am

re: #571 Alouette

They will not get a state in September. They will find some way to totally blow the opportunity, as usual.

Charlie Brown, meet Lucy

I'm SURE she'll hold the football for you!

574

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:18:41am

re: #569 sattv4u2

And another self inflicted speed bump on the road to peace

Palestinian rivals at odds as unity talks near

[Link: www.boston.com...]

Israel has internal political divisions that make the peace process (whatever that is) more difficult, why wouldn't the Palestinians?

575

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:20:16am

re: #572 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

In most cases, it is. Being a former Black Republican myself, I can delineate them. My ticket out -- this was over 2 decades ago -- was somewhat similar...white conservative attitudes about South African apartheid, and of course their emotionally retarded ideas about our own version. I was already an expat by the time Clarence vs Anita Hill hit the news and was reminded again of why I left them. Not much has changed in attitude except the rhetoric.

Now that some time has passed after the Civil Rights movement, they're now trying to bombard us with transparent shyt such as "MLK was a Republican!!!1!!!" and trotting out the 7 black see-and-be-seens on the tea party circuit as the truly-benighted black folks.

Lol like anyone has ever needed white conservative validation on black authenticity. LOL!

Leaves you little choice other than to become a Black Dem or a White Republican.

576

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:20:19am

re: #574 garhighway

Israel has internal political divisions that make the peace process (whatever that is) more difficult, why wouldn't the Palestinians?

Where in Israels charter does it call for the elimination of a state/ nation/ peoples?

Nice try
but swingandamiss

577

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:20:19am

re: #572 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

In most cases, it is. Being a former Black Republican myself, I can delineate them. My ticket out -- this was over 2 decades ago -- was somewhat similar...white conservative attitudes about South African apartheid, and of course their emotionally retarded ideas about our own version. I was already an expat by the time Clarence vs Anita Hill hit the news and was reminded again of why I left them. Not much has changed in attitude except the rhetoric.

Now that some time has passed after the Civil Rights movement, they're now trying to bombard us with transparent shyt such as "MLK was a Republican!!!1!!!" and trotting out the 7 black see-and-be-seens on the tea party circuit as the truly-benighted black folks.

Lol like anyone has ever needed white conservative validation on black authenticity. LOL!

I would have thought that the Lee Atwater deathbed quotes about the Southern Strategy and the use of racist dogwhistles would have been enough for most.

578

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:20:29am

re: #574 garhighway

Israel has internal political divisions that make the peace process (whatever that is) more difficult, why wouldn't the Palestinians?

I don't think Israel has a party that wants to wipe people off the face of the earth, like say, Hamas.

579

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:21:51am

re: #576 sattv4u2

Where in Israels charter does it call for the elimination of a state/ nation/ peoples?

Nice try
but swingandamiss

I'm not agreeing with the Palestinians or drawing a moral equivalence. I'm pointing out that there are internal political divisions on both sides. Do you disagree? Do you really think that Israel is a political monolith?

580

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:22:12am

Sweet Baby Jesus on a Pogo-Stick!

Just opened a fedex box for the Bitter Half.

It's a goddamned luaPnoR 2012 T-shirt.

Like Lucy, she's got some 'splaining to do.

581

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:22:41am

re: #578 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don't think Israel has a party that wants to wipe people off the face of the earth, like say, Hamas.

You miss my point. See my 578.

582

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:22:54am

re: #579 garhighway

I'm not agreeing with the Palestinians or drawing a moral equivalence. I'm pointing out that there are internal political divisions on both sides. Do you disagree? Do you really think that Israel is a political monolith?

It's not even close, so why try to make it a comparison

(and yes, by bringing it up, you did)

583

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:23:00am

re: #578 Cannadian Club Akbar

I don't think Israel has a party that wants to wipe people off the face of the earth, like say, Hamas.

You see, Fatah and Hamas can agree on something! The only difference is that Hamas wants to destroy Israel all at once, but Fatah is willing to take as many concessions as the U.S. and the Europeans can squeeze out of Israel, while giving up nothing and then renewing attacks on a weakened Israel.

584

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:23:18am

re: #581 garhighway

You miss my point. See my 578.

NO!! YOU SEE MY 578!!
///

585

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:23:21am

re: #580 Guanxi88

Sweet Baby Jesus on a Pogo-Stick!

Just opened a fedex box for the Bitter Half.

It's a goddamned luaPnoR 2012 T-shirt.

Like Lucy, she's got some 'splaining to do.

Now you've spoiled your surprise.

586

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:23:59am

re: #580 Guanxi88

Sweet Baby Jesus on a Pogo-Stick!

Just opened a fedex box for the Bitter Half.

It's a goddamned luaPnoR 2012 T-shirt.

Like Lucy, she's got some 'splaining to do.

Better bring this up to the Rabbi....

587

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:24:10am

re: #585 Decatur Deb

Now you've spoiled your surprise.

If that's the way it's gonna be, maybe I'll just CANCEL that tea time today and go over to the liquor store.

588

iossarian Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:24:14am

re: #585 Decatur Deb

Now you've spoiled your surprise.

"Baby, tonight I'm a right-wing nutcase."

Kinky.

589

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:24:24am

re: #586 Cannadian Club Akbar

Better bring this up to the Rabbi...

Mitigation. Not a bad idea.

590

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:25:44am

re: #588 iossarian

"Baby, tonight I'm a right-wing nutcase."

Kinky.

Eh.... I never was into that kinda dark stuff. Besides, if she got it for that purpose, then she's got EVEN MORE 'splaining to do.

591

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:25:44am

re: #587 Guanxi88

If that's the way it's gonna be, maybe I'll just CANCEL that tea time today and go over to the liquor store.

I'll drive. Can we stop by Taco Bell?
/

592

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:25:44am

re: #580 Guanxi88

re: #588 iossarian

"Baby, tonight I'm a right-wing nutcase."

Kinky.

Just put on YOUR Dennis Kucinich mask and GO FOR IT!!

593

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:27:19am

re: #591 Cannadian Club Akbar

I'll drive. Can we stop by Taco Bell?
/

'course. Taco Cabana's better, but, this being South Texas, there's a ton better places. Loera's comes highly recommended, as does Arrandas #3, conveniently located within easy driving distance of my preferred vendors of mind-numbing intoxicants (defined, for these purposes, as any business engaged in such humanitarian good works).

594

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:27:25am

re: #582 sattv4u2

It's not even close, so why try to make it a comparison

(and yes, by bringing it up, you did)

So you do think Israel is a political monolith? You haven't seen any internal political divisions there that have impacted the peace process?

To repeat, I am not comparing the appropriateness of their political stands. I am commenting on their internal political dynamic. Period.

595

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:27:54am

re: #76 researchok

Ted Rall referred to Condaleeza Rice as a 'house nigga'. He's carried bt 140 papers

...

Tbogg of Firedog Lake refers to Juan Williamsw as "pants-shitting".

Plenty more.

FDL nutroots anti-Obamas are among the worst these days, but they are nothing new. We have had to tolerate them for generations.

Let's also not forget Hillary vs Barack last year.

We have to put up with a lot of Harriet Christian types. They, too, are nothing new.

So the dilemma for Black voters is, now, and has always been, which form of anti-Black bigots are you going to put up with, and at what personal expense. Which is the less virulent, because both are virulent, damaging, and basically see you as a monkey.

Condi once put it in interesting terms, saying, "I decided I'd rather be ignored than patronized." I can relate, though I took the mirror opposite path but for similar reasons. A lot of nonwhite cons are going to be changing their tune like Barnes did. In fact, I still want to know who Condi voted for especially after being so ceremoniously dumped, along with Colin.

Yes, it is worse on the right because conservatives have the most at stake for the status quo staying the same or reverting back to, as Trent Lott put it when there weren't "all these problems". They also have the most reactionary anger and impacted ignorance about others not like them, and they like it that way.

596

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:28:20am

re: #594 garhighway

So you do think Israel is a political monolith? You haven't seen any internal political divisions there that have impacted the peace process?

To repeat, I am not comparing the appropriateness of their political stands. I am commenting on their internal political dynamic. Period.

Where did I even hint at that?

597

Interesting Times Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:29:01am

re: #594 garhighway

So you do think Israel is a political monolith? You haven't seen any internal political divisions there that have impacted the peace process?

I think the argument from others is that, if the Palestinians weren't so extreme, any internal Israeli divisions could be overcome and the peace process could move forward.

598

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:30:40am

re: #125 researchok

Did the Democrats as a group stand up and condemn the Thomas as a 'Uncle Tom' remarks?

Since he recently was the only one voting to overturn parts of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, I certainly hope not.

599

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:30:44am

re: #597 publicityStunted

I think the argument from others is that, if the Palestinians weren't so extreme, any internal Israeli divisions could be overcome and the peace process could move forward.

THAT

No matter what "divisions" have been in Israeli politics they have alays come to the table ready to deal, WITHOUT a faction of them saying "oh, and while we're at it, wipe Gaza off the map"

Geeez Louise

600

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:30:52am

re: #593 Guanxi88

We have vans that are converted into taco trucks here. They fucking rule!!

601

dragonfire1981 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:32:02am

While I agree with the majority of how this guy feels, I think there's one important point he makes that's wrong:

Generally speaking, Republicans are decent people, and naturally, many of my closest friends vote Republican. As with any large organization or group, there will always be people at the fringes who hold views that are not representative of the body.

The problem is this guy has failed to realize that these racist, theocratic and bigoted "fringe" views have taken over the Republican mainstream by force and more or less ARE representative of the body now.

Take a look at the top 3 featured pages right now. Two are about prominent Republicans attacking women on abortion and the other is from our old friend Bryan Fisher. These guys may have been fringe at one point but now they're right out there for all to see.

These kinds of things don't represent elements OF the Republican Party, they represent the Party itself!

BUT...

There is one thing that needs underlining here. I do not mean this to imply I am painting all conservatives with the extremist brush. Don't forget, there can sometimes be a big difference between a Republican and a Conservative.

602

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:32:12am

re: #599 sattv4u2

THAT

No matter what "divisions" have been in Israeli politics they have alays come to the table ready to deal, WITHOUT a faction of them saying "oh, and while we're at it, wipe Gaza off the map"

Geeez Louise

IIRC, President Clinton thought he had a deal, until Arafish took a shit in the punchbowl.

603

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:32:15am

re: #600 Cannadian Club Akbar

We have vans that are converted into taco trucks here. They fucking rule!!

Roach coaches, as they're affectionately known here and elsewhere. Hard to beat the quality of a sit-down place, though. Of course, there's nice old lady Catillo up the road - makes the best damned tamales you ever had; got to get to know her before she'll sell to you though - like a drug dealer or something.

604

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:33:02am

re: #595 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

FDL nutroots anti-Obamas are among the worst these days, but they are nothing new. We have had to tolerate them for generations.

Let's also not forget Hillary vs Barack last year.

We have to put up with a lot of Harriet Christian types. They, too, are nothing new.

So the dilemma for Black voters is, now, and has always been, which form of anti-Black bigots are you going to put up with, and at what personal expense. Which is the less virulent, because both are virulent, damaging, and basically see you as a monkey.

Condi once put it in interesting terms, saying, "I decided I'd rather be ignored than patronized." I can relate, though I took the mirror opposite path but for similar reasons. A lot of nonwhite cons are going to be changing their tune like Barnes did. In fact, I still want to know who Condi voted for especially after being so ceremoniously dumped, along with Colin.

Yes, it is worse on the right because conservatives have the most at stake for the status quo staying the same or reverting back to, as Trent Lott put it when there weren't "all these problems". They also have the most reactionary anger and impacted ignorance about others not like them, and they like it that way.

Until very recently a brightly-lit main street in my town was named "The George C. Wallace Great White Way". The difference is that the Wallaces are tending to move away from the Dems, while the TPGOP is actively courting them.

605

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:33:18am

re: #132 researchok

The truth is, this is the 'blood libel' charges of our time.

No, it isn't.

Especially given actual blood libel still occurs.

606

Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:34:42am

Police Officers, Fed Up with Rick Scott, Leave Republican Party En Masse

Next month the Broward County Police Benevolent Association is holding a "Party to Leave the Party" -- an event coordinated with the Supervisor of Elections where police officers and the general public can switch their voter registrations from Republican to Democratic or Independent.
The reason for the switch? The association, which serves as the bargaining union for the county's law enforcement officers, is unhappy with the leadership of Governor Rick Scott and the results of the past legislative session, including changes to the Florida Retirement System that will require the workers to pay more of their own wages into retirement savings.

The PBA may be a union, but it's not traditionally a bunch of liberals. "You'd be surprised," says Broward PBA President Patrick Hanrihan. "I think most of our police officers and stuff are Republicans." Well, until the party-switching party, that is.

"We've been supporting Republican governors for the past 20 years," Hanrihan continued.

607

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:34:54am

re: #596 sattv4u2

Where did I even hint at that?

Since you refused to answer my question, I guessed at your answer. Did I guess wrong? By answering my question, you could clear that up, and address the only point that I was making.

608

Bulworth Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:35:41am

Maybe Ken Barnes just needs to read conservative convert David Mamet's latest screed about how charming and intelligent right wing hate radio is....

609

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:36:51am

Fellows, fellows! Let's not bicker and argue and fight.

Here, enjoy some music:

Youtube Video

Ute Lemper, ladies and gentlemen, performing "youkali"

610

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:36:59am

re: #602 Cannadian Club Akbar

IIRC, President Clinton thought he had a deal, until Arafish took a shit in the punchbowl.

As stated, the Palestinians have been playing Lucy to the USAs Charlie Brown for decades

611

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:37:05am

re: #595 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Let's also not forget Hillary vs Barack last year.

Last year? I don't know why I said last year. I probably meant last GE season :?

612

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:37:38am

re: #606 Killgore Trout

Police Officers, Fed Up with Rick Scott, Leave Republican Party En Masse

I can see that to make a point. The only thing that will change is their ability to vote in the primaries. (you vote with your party)

613

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:38:24am

re: #607 garhighway

Since you refused to answer my question, I guessed at your answer. Did I guess wrong? By answering my question, you could clear that up, and address the only point that I was making.

I didn't "refuse"

I chose not too

WHY?? It had nothing to do with the topic at hand. You introduced it to try to make it look "even"

I was talking about APPLES,, you decided to talk about snapping turtles

614

Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:39:18am

re: #612 Cannadian Club Akbar

I can see that to make a point. The only thing that will change is their ability to vote in the primaries. (you vote with your party)

I don't think they have much hope of changing the party. They'll just vote dem until the Republicans wake up.

615

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:39:20am

re: #613 sattv4u2

I didn't "refuse"

I chose not too

WHY?? It had nothing to do with the topic at hand. You introduced it to try to make it look "even"

I was talking about APPLES,, you decided to talk about snapping turtles

Refuse, chose not to, Jane, Joan, whatever.

616

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:40:28am

re: #615 garhighway

Refuse, chose not to, Jane, Joan, whatever.

Okay. Lets ask this then

Why bring up internal Israeli politics if you weren't trying to equalize what the story I linked too was?

617

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:40:40am

re: #614 Killgore Trout

I don't think they have much hope of changing the party. They'll just vote dem until the Republicans wake up.

True. But if they find a Repub they like (Senate, etc) they won't have that choice in the primaries.

618

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:40:41am

I watched "Due Date" last night. What an irritating and lame movie that was.

619

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:40:43am

re: #604 Decatur Deb

Until very recently a brightly-lit main street in my town was named "The George C. Wallace Great White Way". The difference is that the Wallaces are tending to move away from the Dems, while the TPGOP is actively courting them.

Haley Barbour has Segregation Academies name for him, and he openly defends the White Citizens Councils that spawn them.

What is funny to me is, over-defensive conservatives will try and tell me all those old segregationists are dead, and finish it off with a dash of Robert Byrd.

All they have is pointing to their history 150 years ago, though when we do the same regarding slavery the same people will shriek to high heaven about us "living in the past".

With all this, they then wonder why they still can't get even us dumbest people on earth to vote for their policies or candidates.

620

Stanghazi Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:40:52am

OH DAMN.

AP The Associated Press

Clarence Clemons, saxophonist with Springsteen's E Street Band and known as the Big Man, suffers a stroke: [Link: apne.ws...] -DS

621

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:43:02am

re: #606 Killgore Trout

Police Officers, Fed Up with Rick Scott, Leave Republican Party En Masse

Whoa.

622

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:43:36am

re: #619 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Haley Barbour has Segregation Academies name for him, and he openly defends the White Citizens Councils that spawn them.

What is funny to me is, over-defensive conservatives will try and tell me all those old segregationists are dead, and finish it off with a dash of Robert Byrd.

All they have is pointing to their history 150 years ago, though when we do the same regarding slavery the same people will shriek to high heaven about us "living in the past".

With all this, they then wonder why they still can't get even us dumbest people on earth to vote for their policies or candidates.

Both parties turned themselves inside-out in the years between Teddy Roosevelt and LBJ. If I were alive then, I would have been a TR Republican.

623

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:44:46am

And on that note,,, off to Auburn Alabama the SATTY family goes for s college visit

624

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:44:53am

So, Father's Day coming up soon, the Bitter half thought to ask me what I'd like for the special occasion.

I tell her "Oh, it doesn't matter. Howzabout we just do what we did last year, and on my previous 5 birthdays?"

She says: "But we didn't do anything last year, and you've always worked on your birthday for as long as I've known you."

Me: "So, it's a date, then?"

625

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:45:31am

re: #623 sattv4u2

And on that note,,, off to Auburn Alabama the SATTY family goes for s college visit

Bring me back a cheerleader with a Southern Drawl. Appreciate it.

626

sattv4u2 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:45:53am

re: #625 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bring me back a cheerleader with a Southern Drawl. Appreciate it.

Can his name be Bubba?

627

Interesting Times Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:45:56am

re: #606 Killgore Trout

Police Officers, Fed Up with Rick Scott, Leave Republican Party En Masse

Good. I was worried about Florida what with all the new voter suppression laws being passed there, but at this rate, GOPers may still lose the state despite stacking the deck.

628

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:46:27am

re: #626 sattv4u2

Can his name be Bubba?

I didn't ask for a Stuckey's Pecan Log!!!!

629

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:47:04am

Hey, a weird question:

Any Lizards in Deutschland?

There's a reason for my asking - it's not idle curiosity or some sort of elaborate smuggling scheme; not this time, anyway.

630

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:47:08am

re: #623 sattv4u2

And on that note,,, off to Auburn Alabama the SATTY family goes for s college visit

Stop at Sprayberry's on the turnpike near or in Noonan. Lewis Grizzard's favorite BBQ (the one in town).

631

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:48:00am

re: #629 Guanxi88

Hey, a weird question:

Any Lizards in Deutschland?

There's a reason for my asking - it's not idle curiosity or some sort of elaborate smuggling scheme; not this time, anyway.

I think Ralphie is in Germany.

632

garhighway Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:49:17am

re: #616 sattv4u2

Okay. Lets ask this then

Why bring up internal Israeli politics if you weren't trying to equalize what the story I linked too was?

As I said before, noting that there are some parallels in their internal political dynamic doesn't imply anything about the merits of their substantive positions.

My point in making my original comment was to point out that the dynamic you were referring to as if it were new, novel or unique, is none of those things, and has a mirrored dynamic on the Israeli side.

Does that make the two sides morally equivalent? Of course not. There's only one side intentionally killing civilians. There's only one side using kids to kill people. There's only one side hiding behind civilians while dealing in death. Nothing I said implied anything to the contrary.

But really now, is this issue so toxic that any time someone wants to comment on any aspect of it they have to repeat all of that as if it were a loyalty oath? Because from where I sit, a fairly benign observation about Israeli politics shouldn't immediately degenerate into a 'you must be a terrorist sympathizer!' (which is where the 'false equivalence' discussion inevitably leads) death spiral.

633

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:49:17am

re: #631 Alouette

I think Ralphie is in Germany.

Ralphie who? I'm trying to track down someone in the Bundesrepublik who's been lurking on one of my "secret" blogs; want to make sure it's not someone I know before I start jumping ugly.

634

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:50:07am

re: #624 Guanxi88

So, Father's Day coming up soon, the Bitter half thought to ask me what I'd like for the special occasion.

I tell her "Oh, it doesn't matter. Howzabout we just do what we did last year, and on my previous 5 birthdays?"

She says: "But we didn't do anything last year, and you've always worked on your birthday for as long as I've known you."

Me: "So, it's a date, then?"

Aw, c'mon.
I'd be bitter too if I got an answer like that.

635

Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:50:37am

re: #621 reine.de.tout

Whoa.

I think it's going to become a national trend. The Gop has decided public servants are enemies of the state. That agenda is bound to have consequences.

636

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:50:40am

re: #631 Alouette

I think Ralphie is in Germany.

We have at least two--one has a short nic, letters/numbers.

637

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:51:15am

re: #634 reine.de.tout

Eh, she's earned it; we are, neither of us, a bargain. I at least have fun with it.

638

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:51:20am

re: #636 Decatur Deb

We have at least two--one has a short nic, letters/numbers.

OOOG.

639

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:51:37am

re: #618 Alouette

I watched "Due Date" last night. What an irritating and lame movie that was.

Then I'm glad I sent it back to Netflix without watching it.

What I have watched lately, that I really enjoyed, were the 3 movies made from the Stiegg Larssen "Girl Who" books.

640

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:52:09am

re: #627 publicityStunted

Good. I was worried about Florida what with all the new voter suppression laws being passed there, but at this rate, GOPers may still lose the state despite stacking the deck.

What voter suppression laws? I ask because I don't know.

641

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:52:25am

re: #637 Guanxi88

Eh, she's earned it; we are, neither of us, a bargain. I at least have fun with it.

{guanxi88}

Really I hope you get it worked out, one way or another, in a way that's satisfying for you.

642

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:52:53am

re: #577 garhighway

I would have thought that the Lee Atwater deathbed quotes about the Southern Strategy and the use of racist dogwhistles would have been enough for most.

Well, it is enough for most i.e. 95%+...has been since the Civil Rights Acts of 64 and 65. White conservatives, of the ilk that wave picket signs of Obama eating waffles, know they will NEVER get our voting bloc en masse, no matter how loudly they wail about Robert Byrd or Abraham Lincoln. Then, they act like the problem is with us, that they can only offer up bigots and aholes for candidates and policies. Tsk tsk, sucks to be them.

643

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:52:59am

re: #639 reine.de.tout

Then I'm glad I sent it back to Netflix without watching it.

What I have watched lately, that I really enjoyed, were the 3 movies made from the Stiegg Larssen "Girl Who" books.

I have those in my "instant watch" queue, but I want to finish the books first before watching the movies.

644

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:53:44am

re: #635 Killgore Trout

I think it's going to become a national trend. The Gop has decided public servants are enemies of the state. That agenda is bound to have consequences.

Oh, yes.

I say that as a former public employee; the governor here seems to believe current (and retired) state employees are the enemy. He's doing everything he can to break down the system that has worked well since 1950.

645

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:53:57am

re: #641 reine.de.tout

{guanxi88}

Really I hope you get it worked out, one way or another, in a way that's satisfying for you.

Like everybody else in the world, I bitch and moan and piss and whine, and go about my business same as always.

Rebbe should be helpful, if nothing else, in providing a bit of clarity for me on the whole thing. Failing that, it's a more or less free lunch, and you know me (Dr. Zoidberg's poor nephew that I am) - I never miss a free feed.

646

reine.de.tout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:54:20am

re: #643 Alouette

I have those in my "instant watch" queue, but I want to finish the books first before watching the movies.

I couldn't keep up with the names - now that I've watched the movies, I'll read the books and be able to keep the characters straight.

647

Bulworth Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:56:49am

re: #618 Alouette

I watched "Due Date" last night. What an irritating and lame movie that was.

Good to know.

648

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:58:21am

After I get back from my tea/lunch, I'm debating leaving #1 Daughter in charge of #2 Daughter, #1 Son, the cats, etc., and heading down to stare at the river for a bit. It occurred to me last night (I work the graveyard shift from hell crunching numbers and yelling at work monkeys to quit making so goddamned much scrap for me to sort through, etc., etc.) that I haven't been alone in something like 6 months or more.

No wonder I'm so freakin' irritable.

649

Interesting Times Mon, Jun 13, 2011 7:59:35am

re: #640 Cannadian Club Akbar

What voter suppression laws? I ask because I don't know.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

650

aagcobb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:00:15am

re: #648 Guanxi88

After I get back from my tea/lunch, I'm debating leaving #1 Daughter in charge of #2 Daughter, #1 Son, the cats, etc., and heading down to stare at the river for a bit. It occurred to me last night (I work the graveyard shift from hell crunching numbers and yelling at work monkeys to quit making so goddamned much scrap for me to sort through, etc., etc.) that I haven't been alone in something like 6 months or more.

No wonder I'm so freakin' irritable.

You need to schedule regular breaks from the rugrats. Thats way too long.

651

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:00:30am

re: #640 Cannadian Club Akbar

What voter suppression laws? I ask because I don't know.

Gov't issued photo ID to vote, only residents allowed to work registration, others. The League of Women Voters, a well-known commie group, has withdrawn from voter registration, saying it cannot risk the penalities in the law.

652

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:02:34am

re: #650 aagcobb

You need to schedule regular breaks from the rugrats. Thats way too long.

Do whiskey naps count? 'Cause I've tried those, and while they're appealing on their own, they lack the virtues of quiet contemplation. Yeah, I gotta figure out some way to get away without risking child abandonment charges.

653

aagcobb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:03:16am

re: #651 Decatur Deb

Gov't issued photo ID to vote, only residents allowed to work registration, others. The League of Women Voters, a well-known commie group, has withdrawn from voter registration, saying it cannot risk the penalities in the law.

The GOP realizes that demographics are working against them as their base gets older and whiter, so they want to put as many roadblocks to voting up to discourage non-traditional voters from even trying.

654

aagcobb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:04:21am

re: #652 Guanxi88

Do whiskey naps count? 'Cause I've tried those, and while they're appealing on their own, they lack the virtues of quiet contemplation. Yeah, I gotta figure out some way to get away without risking child abandonment charges.

They are called teenagers. Useful for babysitting, if nothing else.

655

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:06:54am

re: #654 aagcobb

They are called teenagers. Useful for babysitting, if nothing else.

uggh, I don't know any, don't wanna know any. maybe I'll fob them off on one of my wife's church lady friends or something like that. yeah, as my buddy Stanley will tell you, prolonged human interaction can be draining for some of us.

656

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:06:55am

re: #649 publicityStunted

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

If you move from one county to another you must register there. Was like that in 2004. Or you got a provisional ballot.
Early voting cut was about money. It didn't increase voter turnout. I vote by mail, so I don't have to worry about a packed polling place.
And we have a motor voter law. I don't have a problem with people trying to register others as long as you present the proper ID or whatever, or have an official from the Supervisor of elections there.
I heard about the "getting it on the ballot" thingy, but haven't looked into it very much.

657

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:08:21am

re: #651 Decatur Deb

Gov't issued photo ID to vote, only residents allowed to work registration, others. The League of Women Voters, a well-known commie group, has withdrawn from voter registration, saying it cannot risk the penalities in the law.

I vote by mail. A regular ballot.

658

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:09:42am

And Stanley, is there any way for me to reach you? Got something that might be interesting for you to look at

659

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:10:50am

re: #657 Cannadian Club Akbar

I vote by mail. A regular ballot.

How will you show ID, when you go down to pick up the ballot?

660

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:12:52am

re: #622 Decatur Deb

Both parties turned themselves inside-out in the years between Teddy Roosevelt and LBJ. If I were alive then, I would have been a TR Republican.

Ha, if I were alive then, I wouldn't have a vote -- wrong body parts.

As much as white conservatives sniffle and whimper about the current state of the Black Vote and the Democratic party, people should be aware that we have never held out ANY loyalty to either party, because both have been crappy. You bring up TR, the vote of 1912 was an interesting one. I talk about it often, because that election season was 100 years ago to the date.

I often ask people, ok, you're a Black man in 1912, eligible and registered to vote, i.e., not literacy tested or poll-taxed out. Who are you going to choose. Your choices are: Roosevelt (P - Bigot-Lite), Wilson (D - White Supremacist) and Taft (R - Going Nowhere Fast).

DuBois and other NAACP types very reluctantly threw in with Wilson, having already been burned by Roosevelt. Famously, they got blanket segregation of all federal facilities in 1915, sent to WW1 in segregated armies, and returning to a summer of race riots. Nice.

So when some of my gay friends cry to me about how BETRAYED they felt when Obama got Rick Warren to deliver a prayer for a minute and a half, I cannot help but shake my heads and laugh at them.

661

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:13:10am

re: #659 Decatur Deb

How will you show ID, when you go down to pick up the ballot?

With my ID. If you're walking down the street here and the police have probable cause to stop and speak with you and you don't have ID, they can take you to jail until the ID is brought.

And I don't pick up a ballot. It is sent to me. But I did sign up for that.

662

Stanghazi Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:13:59am

re: #658 Guanxi88

Nic is blue, I think, try it.

663

Stanghazi Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:14:36am

re: #662 Stanley Sea

Nic is blue, I think, try it.

Oh well, you needed to see that video anyway.

Try again.

664

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:14:38am

re: #662 Stanley Sea

Nic is blue, I think, try it.

Brings up your Gatorade commercial.

665

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:14:55am

re: #662 Stanley Sea

History of Gatorade?

666

Stanghazi Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:16:29am

did it work the 2nd time?

667

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:17:38am

re: #666 Stanley Sea

did it work the 2nd time?

Yes.

668

Stanghazi Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:18:12am

Incoming!

Hey, how bout those Mavs last night! Sweet.

669

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:20:54am

re: #661 Cannadian Club Akbar

With my ID. If you're walking down the street here and the police have probable cause to stop and speak with you and you don't have ID, they can take you to jail until the ID is brought.

And I don't pick up a ballot. It is sent to me. But I did sign up for that.

They don't even pull that shit here in Alabama (though they might if you've got low skin reflectivity and the new Alien law isn't booted.)

670

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:21:02am

My friend's son got called into work. I told him he would get there and they would send him home. Wanna guess what happened next? Heh.

671

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:22:23am

re: #669 Decatur Deb

They don't even pull that shit here in Alabama (though they might if you've got low skin reflectivity and the new Alien law isn't booted.)

But, like I said, they have to have probable cause to question you. (hanging around a business that is closed, drinking on the street, etc.)

672

Slap Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:23:33am

re: #26 theheat

Many of the comments about the article are more disturbing than the photo. Victimhood, a few bad apples, denial, equivalence, more bad taste, outright racism... The ~~GOP's representatives and apologists~~SacBee's regular commenters are a loathsome group.

I'm not sure if FTFY is correct -- do we have an abbreviation for "expanded on that a bit for you"....?

As a longtime reader of the Bee, I can only say it's nice to have the face of our local yammering idiocracy on view for the world to see.

You should see 'em lash out whenever a white separatist gets arrested or shot -- it's a regular festival of intellectual bankruptcy and hateness.

673

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:24:45am

re: #672 Slap

I hate Skip Bayless.

674

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:25:16am

re: #669 Decatur Deb

They don't even pull that shit here in Alabama (though they might if you've got low skin reflectivity and the new Alien law isn't booted.)

I don't think it will come to a constitutional crisis over these new alien laws, but these people are trying to stoke old Supremacy Clause/states rights/anti-14th Amendment resentments. It's like same sex marriage -- enough states come up with various, disperate state solutions, the fed government is going to have to do something to standardize them. That's going to be interesting.

675

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:25:19am

re: #660 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

...snip
I often ask people, ok, you're a Black man in 1912, eligible and registered to vote, i.e., not literacy tested or poll-taxed out. Who are you going to choose. Your choices are: Roosevelt (P - Bigot-Lite), Wilson (D - White Supremacist) and Taft (R - Going Nowhere Fast).

DuBois and other NAACP types very reluctantly threw in with Wilson, having already been burned by Roosevelt. Famously, they got blanket segregation of all federal facilities in 1915, sent to WW1 in segregated armies, and returning to a summer of race riots. Nice.
...

From your link:

"On the other hand, Roosevelt’s sense of fairness moderated this racism, especially in his dealings on individual racial issues with individual people of color. At least as president, TR sought to ensure his vision of a square deal for Native Americans and African Americans. He frequently promised to treat everyone on “his merits as a man, giving him no more and no less than he shows himself worthy to have.”

Makes him pretty progressive for his time. Screw whether a politician loves a minority or not, as long as he gives them their due as citizens.

676

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:26:55am

re: #674 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I don't think it will come to a constitutional crisis over these new alien laws, but these people are trying to stoke old Supremacy Clause/states rights/anti-14th Amendment resentments. It's like same sex marriage -- enough states come up with various, disperate state solutions, the fed government is going to have to do something to standardize them. That's going to be interesting.

ACLU and SPLC are preparing to file on our law. With any luck it won't make it to the 1 Sep effective date.

677

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:29:02am

re: #671 Cannadian Club Akbar

But, like I said, they have to have probable cause to question you. (hanging around a business that is closed, drinking on the street, etc.)

Didn't you guys propose a low-hanging pants law? "I stopped him on suspicion of Grand Raggedness and Attempt To Go Naked."

678

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:30:38am

re: #677 Decatur Deb

Didn't you guys propose a low-hanging pants law? "I stopped him on suspicion of Grand Raggedness and Attempt To Go Naked."

I think they did. I would personally pass a law that outlaws wearing a hat sideways. But I'm a traditionalist.
/

679

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:31:36am

re: #678 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think they did. I would personally pass a law that outlaws wearing a hat sideways. But I'm a traditionalist.
/

You'll run straight into the Parrot Head lobby.

680

What, me worry? Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:32:17am

Re the article:

Republicans send out these racist emails because they think they're going to either like minded people or people who don't mind. They also think there aren't enough Blacks in the party to matter anyway. So who cares if they offend a few people.

I hope things like this finally make minorities understand that the Republicans don't want them, not Blacks, Hispanics or gay people. If that wasn't so, they'd be trying to pass law that might help them.

P.S. The Hispanic community has doubled in size in the last 10 years so who is going to have the last laugh?

Btw, Black people aren't the only ones disgusted by racist emails. I'm proud to say I have never voted Republican in my life.

681

Ericus58 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:32:25am

re: #580 Guanxi88

Sweet Baby Jesus on a Pogo-Stick!

Just opened a fedex box for the Bitter Half.

It's a goddamned luaPnoR 2012 T-shirt.

Like Lucy, she's got some 'splaining to do.

.... and that's when the fight started.....

682

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:33:07am

re: #679 Decatur Deb

You'll run straight into the Parrot Head lobby.

I've been here almost 40 years. Every time Jimmy comes around I'm either broke or something else. GAH!!!

683

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:34:42am

re: #681 Ericus58

... and that's when the fight started...

Hell, it's just another brick in the load, at this point. I shoulda put my foot down when she started getting mixed up with the county libertarian party - why couldn't she just take up drinking, and give us something in common, or get herself a nice little drug habit, like so many other young folk these days? But this, this is just too much.

684

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:34:58am

re: #682 Cannadian Club Akbar

I've been here almost 40 years. Every time Jimmy comes around I'm either broke or something else. GAH!!!

With the last ticket prices I saw, down in Mobile, just about everyone would be broke.

685

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:36:00am

re: #675 Decatur Deb

Makes him pretty progressive for his time.

Actually, it makes him quite typical for the time. You should read on. If you get a chance and a library near you has his "Reds, Riots, and Race", you should take a look at it (I own it.) He deserves far harsher epithets than "bigot lite".

The larger point was that all choices were bad choices and would result in our suppression...Roosevelt already had a track record of it, so regardless of the infamous invitation of Booker T to the WH, Black voters were already soured on him, and plenty of people HATED Booker T's Jim Crow accomodationism, anyway. The other alternative was the guy who would later tell us, after getting our vote, that Birth of A Nation is history written in lightning.

686

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:36:03am

re: #666 Stanley Sea

did it work the 2nd time?

yep, it took some sorta weird detour through the mighty processor in my computer but it went out to your yeehaw account.

687

BongCrodny Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:37:39am

In Maine, our new Republican-controlled legislature recently approved a bill that would end same-day voter registration. The vote was pretty much along party lines, with Republicans voting to end same day registration and Democrats opposed.

I guess there was some pressing need to *lower* the participation rate since Maine had the third highest participation rate in the last Presidential election.

Bill Nimitz of the Portland Press Herald recently interviewed Charlie Webster, the Chairman of the Maine Republican Party:

"If you want to get really honest, this is about how the Democrats have managed to steal elections from Maine people," Webster said in an interview that Nemitz recorded. "Many of us believe that the Democrats intentionally steal elections."

(Emphasis mine.)

Bill to end same-day registration approved

In 2008, the Democrats held the State House of Representatives, 95-55. In 2010, the Republicans took over 77-72.

In 2008, the Democrats held the State Senate 20-15. In 2010, Republicans took over 20-14, with one Independent.

If we're stealing elections, we're doing a pretty fucking poor job of it.

688

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:37:43am

re: #683 Guanxi88

Hell, it's just another brick in the load, at this point. I shoulda put my foot down when she started getting mixed up with the county libertarian party - why couldn't she just take up drinking, and give us something in common, or get herself a nice little drug habit, like so many other young folk these days? But this, this is just too much.

ya know, it's not just the unspeakable shame of it all, either. It's the money - I coulda bought a handle of Jim Beam for what that advertisement for goofiness cost.

689

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:38:54am

re: #684 Decatur Deb

With the last ticket prices I saw, down in Mobile, just about everyone would be broke.

I've been to his restaurant in the Keys. Menu read:Cheeseburger in Paradise, served just like the song says. Really, then where's my beer?

690

Interesting Times Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:40:35am

re: #687 BongCrodny

Bill Nimitz of the Portland Press Herald recently interviewed Charlie Webster, the Chairman of the Maine Republican Party:

"If you want to get really honest, this is about how the Democrats have managed to steal elections from Maine people," Webster said in an interview that Nemitz recorded. "Many of us believe that the Democrats intentionally steal elections.

Once again, Republicans prove themselves better at projection than all the IMAX theaters in America.

691

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:40:39am

This is totally off any relevant topic, but seems like this is the kind of place I can ask and people would maybe know the answer.

Why was the Knesset building built on lands rented from the Greek Orthodox church?

692

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:44:39am

re: #676 Decatur Deb

ACLU and SPLC are preparing to file on our law. With any luck it won't make it to the 1 Sep effective date.

Yeah, the ACLU wasted no time wielding the hammer on AZ SB1070 and got a lot of it dumped. Glad to see SPLC is also in on it in AL.

693

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:45:52am

re: #685 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Actually, it makes him quite typical for the time. You should read on. If you get a chance and a library near you has his "Reds, Riots, and Race", you should take a look at it (I own it.) He deserves far harsher epithets than "bigot lite".

The larger point was that all choices were bad choices and would result in our suppression...Roosevelt already had a track record of it, so regardless of the infamous invitation of Booker T to the WH, Black voters were already soured on him, and plenty of people HATED Booker T's Jim Crow accomodationism, anyway. The other alternative was the guy who would later tell us, after getting our vote, that Birth of A Nation is history written in lightning.

Not even a close choice. Haven't read Reds, Riots, and Race. All I have from that era is "Race Riot in East St. Louis, 1917". haven't read it in 30 yrs.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

694

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:46:23am

re: #691 windsagio

This is totally off any relevant topic, but seems like this is the kind of place I can ask and people would maybe know the answer.

~~

Why was the Knesset building built on lands rented from the Greek Orthodox church?

What is your source for claiming that the Greek Orthodox Church owns Givat Ram?

695

Ericus58 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:46:50am

Spanish police website hit by Anonymous hackers

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

"The website of Spain's national police force has been briefly knocked offline by hacker collective Anonymous.

The attack on the site was carried out in retaliation for the arrest of three Spanish men the police claimed were 'core' members of the group.

The hackers managed to keep [Link: www.policia.es...] offline for about an hour from 2130 GMT on 12 June.

Spanish authorities would not confirm that Anonymous was behind the attack, saying only that the site was offline.

However, a statement was posted on a website linked to Anonymous, claimed responsibility for the hack, which it called #OpPolicia."

.......................

696

Ericus58 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:50:00am

Government 'may have hacked IMF'

[Link: www.bbc.co.uk...]

"Hackers who broke into the International Monetary Fund's computer system may have been backed by a nation state, according to security experts.

They point to the sophisticated nature of the attack and the resources needed to develop it.
..............................
A memo circulated internally at the IMF reported that "suspicious file transfers" had been detected.

Tom Kellerman, a security expert who has worked for the IMF and now sits on the board of the International Cyber Security Protection Alliance told Reuters news agency that it was "a targeted attack" with code written specifically to give a nation state a "digital insider presence" on the IMF network.

Graham Titherington, a security analyst with research firm Ovum agreed with the nation state theory.

"Any attack that shows money, time and resources went on it points to a state attack. States and their intelligence agencies have far more resources than criminal gangs," he said."

Remember a week or so ago when the U.S. declared that Cyberwarfare would be viewed as an act of war?

697

ProMayaLiberal Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:51:28am

re: #687 BongCrodny

This is going to have a massive backlash in a few years. The Republicans won under odd circumstances, to put it mildly. Even the loss of voters won't be enough to save them.

698

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:53:29am

re: #694 Alouette

Wiki;

Knesset entry:

The Knesset sits on a hilltop in western Jerusalem in a district known as Sheikh Badr before the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, now Givat Ram. It was financed by James A. de Rothschild as a gift to the State of Israel. It was built on land leased from the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem.[7]

That's the second place tho', I actually saw it last night at work when I was reading about the Greek Orthodox church. Cant' find the original reference now.

Did I walk into some kind of trap/lie? >

699

ProMayaLiberal Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:53:44am

re: #696 Ericus58

I guarantee that it is China.

700

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:54:30am

re: #698 windsagio

oops found it:

Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem entry:

The Orthodox Church has extensive property holdings in Jerusalem and throughout Israel and the Palestinian territories. In addition to numerous churches, seminaries and other properties used for religious purposes, church property holdings include the land on which the Knesset and the prime minister's residence are located, as well as an array of historic buildings in Jerusalem's Old City, including the Imperial and Petra hotels inside the Jaffa Gate of the Old City.[1]

701

What, me worry? Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:56:40am

re: #694 Alouette

What is your source for claiming that the Greek Orthodox Church owns Givat Ram?

Recent BBC and Guardian articles report the new anti-semitic rant that the Knesset was built on stolen Arab farmland (not at my link.)

[Link: www.zionism-israel.com...]

In 1958, the cornerstone of a permanent knesset building was laid in Givat Ram in Jerusalem, on land leased from the Greek Orthodox Church in Jerusalem. The new building was completed August 31, 1966, and has since been modified and renovated a few times.

I don't know if the government still pays rent or bought the land.

What Windsagio's point is, I don't know.

702

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:58:25am

re: #698 windsagio

Wiki;

Knesset entry:

That's the second place tho', I actually saw it last night at work when I was reading about the Greek Orthodox church. Cant' find the original reference now.

Did I walk into some kind of trap/lie? >

The notes in the wiki article do not link to any source that verifies whether Givat Ram is owned by the Greeks Church.

703

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 8:58:40am

re: #701 marjoriemoon

I have no point lol, it just seemed unusual for some reason, and I was wondering if there was something special about the site, or if it was just 'cuz.

The history of the Christian churches there is weird and insane and excellent reading ><

704

Ericus58 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:00:28am

"raises eyebrows"

Okay, where is this train of thought going and why did it come up....

705

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:00:37am

If the Greeks claim they own Givat Ram, it can't belong to the Palestinians. Greeks are not Palestinian.

706

What, me worry? Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:01:54am

re: #703 windsagio

I have no point lol, it just seemed unusual for some reason, and I was wondering if there was something special about the site, or if it was just 'cuz.

The history of the Christian churches there is weird and insane and excellent reading ><

This is not a history about the church though so I wasn't sure about your point, seeing as there's a lot of anti-Semitic rumors flaring up in the BBC and the Guardian (wow, what a surprise) last week how the Jews stole Arab land, particularly where the gov sits.

707

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:02:08am

re: #693 Decatur Deb

Not even a close choice. Haven't read Reds, Riots, and Race. All I have from that era is "Race Riot in East St. Louis, 1917". haven't read it in 30 yrs.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

I'll see if I can get ahold of that one - haven't read it.

Another factor was that Jack Johnson beat the living stew out of Jim Jeffries in 1910. Talk about race riots...people came out of their gourd because their little ideas about white superiority had been trashed, right on camera, in front of God and everybody. Lol like I was saying, sucks to be them, poor things.

708

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:02:14am

re: #705 Alouette

Thats fine, I seriously don't care who it belongs to, I really really really have absolutely no point to prove with this.

It was just a strange factoid, and seriously LGF is my best place to ask if I'm looking for people with knowledge on the subject of Israel :D

Altho its also interesting to read, the Palestinians are pissed at the Church Hierarchy because all of the leadership is traditionally (and currently) Greek.

709

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:03:11am

if its not true, its a pretty interesting scandal tho', that's a new angle :p

710

BongCrodny Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:03:16am

re: #697 ProLifeLiberal

This is going to have a massive backlash in a few years. The Republicans won under odd circumstances, to put it mildly. Even the loss of voters won't be enough to save them.

You kind of expect to hear stuff like that coming from blogs and/or comments; not from the Chairman of the state Republican Party.

Maybe it's true: maybe Democrats have been busing hordes of ineligible voters ~~to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids~~ vote Democrat.

If, however, you subscribe to the Occam's Razor theory, "Charlie Webster is nuts" is certainly the simpler explanation.

711

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:04:03am

re: #706 marjoriemoon

This is not a history about the church though so I wasn't sure about your point, seeing as there's a lot of anti-Semitic rumors flaring up in the BBC and the Guardian (wow, what a surprise) last week how the Jews stole Arab land, particularly where the gov sits.

You never hear Palestinians complaining that Greeks stole their land. Why not? Greeks are more colonial occupiers than Jews.

712

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:04:07am

re: #708 windsagio

Thats fine, I seriously don't care who it belongs to, I really really really have absolutely no point to prove with this.

It was just a strange factoid, and seriously LGF is my best place to ask if I'm looking for people with knowledge on the subject of Israel :D

Altho its also interesting to read, the Palestinians are pissed at the Church Hierarchy because all of the leadership is traditionally (and currently) Greek.

A Greek church is run by Greeks? I'd be pissed too!!!
///

713

ProMayaLiberal Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:06:07am

re: #710 BongCrodny

The next election in Maine (at the state level) will be hilarious. For me and my side.

714

What, me worry? Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:07:17am

re: #711 Alouette

You never hear Palestinians complaining that Greeks stole their land. Why not? Greeks are more colonial occupiers than Jews.

It's not terribly convenient for The Cause, is it.

Facts about the Knessest
[Link: www.jerusalem-insiders-guide.com...]

(I can't copy sorry).

715

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:07:54am

re: #712 Cannadian Club Akbar

The problem is that its the Patriarchate of Jerusalem, so just about all of the actual members are Palestinians or Arabs (if you count them seprately)... just none of the leadership.

~~~

Anywyas, so its probably not true about the ownership? Sounds like its not supposed to be the whole district anyways.

Thanks for the help :p

716

ProMayaLiberal Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:07:58am

re: #712 Cannadian Club Akbar

I think the issue is the fact that the parishioners don't have much power in the church and want more. The local community wants more input.

717

Stanghazi Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:08:47am

pwire Taegan Goddard

Speaker Boehner gets an unexpected thank you note from Qaddaffi for criticizing Obama... [Link: pwire.at...]

718

abolitionist Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:09:20am

Rep. Anthony Weiner's Nissan Pathfinder is unregistered, DMV says
Monday, June 13th 2011, 4:00 AM
Excerpt:

The New York license plate bolted on Weiner's Pathfinder - US Congress 9 - had expired as of 2006, according to the DMV.
"That license plate should not be on a car," a DMV spokeswoman said. It wasn't even issued to the Pathfinder, but to another one of Weiner's cars, a Honda, according to vehicle records.

Everyone was too busy to notice, I suppose.

719

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:09:43am

re: #715 windsagio

re: #716 ProLifeLiberal

Thamks. Didn't think of that.

720

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:09:48am

Here's an interesting little legend that I heard years ago in Jerusalem:

The keys to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre were given to the "Prince of Peace." Who was the "Prince of Peace"? The Roman Catholics and the Greek Orthodox (and later, the Protestants) could not stop squabbling over who controlled the holy site. So the Ottoman ruler, Mehmet Ali, gave the keys to some Arab Muslim guy who then handed it over to the Catholics, the Orthodox and the Protestants in rotation. And they called him "The Prince of Peace."

721

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:11:26am

re: #717 Stanley Sea

pwire Taegan Goddard

Speaker Boehner gets an unexpected thank you note from Qaddaffi for criticizing Obama... [Link: pwire.at...]

Didn't Daffy call President Obama a "brother" not to long ago?

722

Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:11:50am

re: #717 Stanley Sea

pwire Taegan Goddard

Speaker Boehner gets an unexpected thank you note from Qaddaffi for criticizing Obama... [Link: pwire.at...]

Ouch.

723

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:12:32am

re: #717 Stanley Sea

Heh, he's just effing with them ><

724

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:13:17am

re: #720 Alouette

Here's an interesting little legend that I heard years ago in Jerusalem:

The keys to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre were given to the "Prince of Peace." Who was the "Prince of Peace"? The Roman Catholics and the Greek Orthodox (and later, the Protestants) could not stop squabbling over who controlled the holy site. So the Ottoman ruler, Mehmet Ali, gave the keys to some Arab Muslim guy who then handed it over to the Catholics, the Orthodox and the Protestants in rotation. And they called him "The Prince of Peace."

Yes, and the agreement governing the rotating occupation of the site? Status Quo

725

Stanghazi Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:13:42am

K, gotta run. Will check in later. Go Bruins! Thank you Mavs & Gators.

726

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:13:56am

re: #720 Alouette

Its pretty bizarre that they still get into fistfights there (the chair-moving incident was epic!)

The protestants get shafted tho', they dont' get any custody at all.

727

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:14:24am

re: #726 windsagio

Its pretty bizarre that they still get into fistfights there (the chair-moving incident was epic!)

The protestants get shafted tho', they dont' get any custody at all.

Look, ya gotta draw the line SOMEWHERE, don't ya?

728

The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:16:15am

re: #699 ProLifeLiberal

I guarantee that it is China.

There's been a lot of hacks coming out of China. Google accounts, US Government staff...any other big ones recently?

re: #685 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Actually, it makes him quite typical for the time. You should read on. If you get a chance and a library near you has his "Reds, Riots, and Race", you should take a look at it (I own it.) He deserves far harsher epithets than "bigot lite".

Listened to a chunk of "Theodore Rex" during a long drive last month. It quotes some of TR's letters and personal writings regarding his meetings with Booker Washington: for all of his positive impression towards the man, TR had lot of dicey scientific racist ideas, and exposited at length about how Washington was the exception not the rule amongst Negroes [sic]. Having not know about this aspect of TR, I was very disappointed.

729

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:16:23am

re: #721 Cannadian Club Akbar

Didn't Daffy call President Obama a "brother" not to long ago?

Googled Daffy/Obama/brother. Holy shit. Came across an article on the first page that was just fucking awful. From a lovely Christian group.

730

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:17:25am

re: #727 Guanxi88

yeah, those bastards >>

Sorry for the total derail everybody, its just so interesting :D

731

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:19:52am

re: #730 windsagio

yeah, those bastards >>

Sorry for the total derail everybody, its just so interesting :D

Well, it's like this: We know who speaks for the RC, we know who speaks for the Orthodox, but who exactly represents Protestantism?

Wasn't that rather the whole point of their movement?

732

Cannadian Club Akbar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:20:15am

I need to get something done. BBL.

733

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:20:24am

re: #711 Alouette

You never hear Palestinians complaining that Greeks stole their land. Why not? Greeks are more colonial occupiers than Jews.

Same for the brits, though we never hear ppl complaining about the arbitrary boundary lines of other current ME states.

Well, unless it's the Kurds. But ostensibly, pan-Arabism was supposed to be about that, although hey why blame the actual perps when one can just blame Israel for all one's woes. /

734

windsagio Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:22:18am

anyways, done with my bowl of peas, bedtime for bonzo!

735

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:26:23am

re: #734 windsagio

anyways, done with my bowl of peas, bedtime for bonzo!

Finished my bowl of rice, polishing off the last of my miso, then outside to smoke my pipe, then back in for a highball, then off to bed for a bit.

736

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:28:59am

re: #735 Guanxi88

Finished my bowl of rice, polishing off the last of my miso, then outside to smoke my pipe, then back in for a highball, then off to bed for a bit.

Gotta have a nap before the drive to the Rebbe, and don't want to show up famished. It's hard to make your case when your mouth is full of sammiches and such.

737

Kragar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:34:26am

Camping reportedly suffers stroke

Harold Camping, the radio preacher who incorrectly predicted that the Rapture would happen last month, has reportedly been hospitalized after suffering a stroke.
According to the Oakland Tribune, a neighbor said the 89-year-old president of the Oakland nonprofit Family Radio network was taken by ambulance from his home on Thursday night.

738

Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:34:39am

Scientists create a biological laser beam

Malte Gather and Seok-Hyun Yun from Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital have managed to insert a green glowing protein (eGFP) inside a reflective optical cavity of a living cell made from a human embryonic kidney cell line, reports Scientific American. By hitting it with pulses of low energy, the researchers are able to make it glow normally, but when enough energy is applied, the light it emits straightens up, gets brighter, and becomes uniformly green.

739

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:35:12am

re: #728 The Ghost of a Flea

Listened to a chunk of "Theodore Rex" during a long drive last month. It quotes some of TR's letters and personal writings regarding his meetings with Booker Washington: for all of his positive impression towards the man, TR had lot of dicey scientific racist ideas, and exposited at length about how Washington was the exception not the rule amongst Negroes [sic]. Having not know about this aspect of TR, I was very disappointed.

Yeah, that old saw is very much still in effect.

White leaders of the era cast Booker T in those terms because of his perceived accomodationism of a two-tiered society with whites ever-on-top.

It reminds me of today's white conservatives pushing Herman Cain, who has zero state executive experience and kicks off his campaign with phrases like "Awwwww shucky ducky!". Or twenty years ago, Clarence Thomas, a Danforth family stooge, who tries to vote down the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Or touting know-nothings/perpetual fuckups like Christine O'Donnell and Sarah Palin as legitimate candidates for thinking women. Or promoting conservative gays who think the concept of equality is for everyone else first, then themselves last, or never.

There are parallels on the left (I brought it up since there is a parallel conversation in this thread going on about Israel) where the only acceptable Jewish colleagues are those who can't stand the thought of Israel as a country, or even worse, the Satmar/Neturei Karta types, who think Jews are theologically bound/cursed to "wander" and be stateless.

Left, right, D, R, L, P or whatever, all of the above is reactionary conservatism afaic. I don't care what letters are after people's names.

740

Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:36:15am

re: #738 Killgore Trout

"The future's so bright, I gotta wea... Ow!! My fucking eyes!!!"

741

The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:36:27am

re: #733 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Same for the brits, though we never hear ppl complaining about the arbitrary boundary lines of other current ME states.

Well, unless it's the Kurds. But ostensibly, pan-Arabism was supposed to be about that, although hey why blame the actual perps when one can just blame Israel for all one's woes. /

Credit where it's due: back in day the British had a real talent for making the locals fight while ducking there fair share of blame.

These days, it's just that the UK are to distant too be effective scapegoats: fear-based propaganda works best if there's a sense of salient threat.

742

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:39:38am

re: #741 The Ghost of a Flea

Credit where it's due: back in day the British had a real talent for making the locals fight while ducking there fair share of blame.

Hell, that's a useful skill, right there. Get Group A & Group B to slug it out, then mop up the mess later.

"Let's you and him fight"

743

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:40:06am

re: #739 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There are parallels on the left (I brought it up since there is a parallel conversation in this thread going on about Israel) where the only acceptable Jewish colleagues are those who can't stand the thought of Israel as a country, or even worse, the Satmar/Neturei Karta types, who think Jews are theologically bound/cursed to "wander" and be stateless.

Naomi Chomsky and Neturei Karta, who'da thought they had anything in common?

744

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:44:06am

re: #743 Alouette

Naomi Chomsky and Neturei Karta, who'da thought they had anything in common?

Except that, you will never, ever see an essay by a Neturei Karta member in any leftist publication. In spite of their hating on Israel and Zionism, the NK really are too "Jewy" for them.

745

Winny Spencer Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:48:16am

I wonder who will win the debate tonight.

746

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:53:12am

re: #745 Winny Spencer

I wonder who will win the debate tonight.

The President.

747

Killgore Trout Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:53:15am

re: #745 Winny Spencer

I wonder who will win the debate tonight.

Ron Paul!

748

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:53:29am

re: #745 Winny Spencer

I wonder who will win the debate tonight.

Laugh about it/
Shout about it/
When you've got to choose/
Either way you look at it you lose.

Where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio?

749

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:54:06am

re: #748 Guanxi88

Laugh about it/
Shout about it/
When you've got to choose/
Either way you look at it you lose.

Where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio?

Need to link that for the liveblog.

750

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:54:28am

re: #749 Decatur Deb

Need to link that for the liveblog.

Sounds like a good idea.

What does that mean?

751

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:54:28am

re: #748 Guanxi88

Laugh about it/
Shout about it/
When you've got to choose/
Either way you look at it you lose.

Where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio?

A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
Woo woo woo

752

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:54:32am

re: #745 Winny Spencer

I wonder who will win the debate tonight.

There will be no clear-cut opinion about who wins.

753

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:54:36am

re: #743 Alouette

Except that, you will never, ever see an essay by a Neturei Karta member in any leftist publication. In spite of their hating on Israel and Zionism, the NK really are too "Jewy" for them.

Yeah, not in the mainstream pubs. But there is overlap with the Mondoweiss/FDL types. Also, in the right-woo-meets-left-woo truthcrank circles, there definitely is. And in the past couple years, there is a lot of BDS-creep into LGBT politics, at least on the coasts (in my view, a lot of this stems from the antisemitism in old 00s truthcrankery, but that's probably for a different thread.)

A lot of it rests on these ideas that Jews are not supposed to have a home state/everything in Israel is "stolen". The NK types are a good gateway for that, and get used in precisely that manner.

754

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:55:00am

re: #751 Alouette

A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
Woo woo woo

What's that you say, Mrs Robinson?
Joltin' Joe has left and gone away

755

Winny Spencer Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:55:20am

My bet is Mittens, incidentally. :)

756

allegro Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:55:30am

re: #745 Winny Spencer

I think I will glue my hand to my face before the debate to avoid knocking myself silly with facepalms.

757

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:56:31am

re: #756 allegro

I think I will glue my hand to my face before the debate to avoid knocking myself silly with facepalms.

Eh, just skip it, why not?

I'm voting GOP, but couldn't care less about any of it.

758

BongCrodny Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:57:00am

re: #745 Winny Spencer

I wonder who will win the debate tonight.

I' m going to go out on a limb here and say "None of the above.

It's not a very long limb.

759

Mostly sane, most of the time. Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:57:17am

I got a picture and you got a photograph. We both see what we want to see.

--Radney Foster

760

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:57:32am

re: #750 Guanxi88

Sounds like a good idea.

What does that mean?

Pull up a Youtube of it for a soundtrack to the Candidates' Debate.

761

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:58:04am

re: #760 Decatur Deb

Pull up a Youtube of it for a soundtrack to the Candidates' Debate.

Oh. You sorta threw me for a loop with your citified high-tech talk there.

762

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:58:50am

re: #753 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, not in the mainstream pubs. But there is overlap with the Mondoweiss/FDL types. Also, in the right-woo-meets-left-woo truthcrank circles, there definitely is. And in the past couple years, there is a lot of BDS-creep into LGBT politics, at least on the coasts (in my view, a lot of this stems from the antisemitism in old 00s truthcrankery, but that's probably for a different thread.)

A lot of it rests on these ideas that Jews are not supposed to have a home state/everything in Israel is "stolen". The NK types are a good gateway for that, and get used in precisely that manner.

Not even the far, far moonbat left publishes anything by NK. My guess is that NK are not fluent enough in English to write anything even a moonbat would find coherent. And nobody else is fluent enough in Yiddish to bother translating any of their rants.

763

allegro Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:58:53am

re: #757 Guanxi88

Eh, just skip it, why not?

It's the next episode in a serial that's kinda important to us. I'm kinda weird that way.

I'm voting GOP, but couldn't care less about any of it.

You're voting GOP but don't care why?

764

ReamWorks SKG Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:59:06am

Slightly Apropos:

KCSM just had Kim Nalley on, who's doing a show at the Razz Room (SF) "Kim Nalley sings Nina Simone"

[Link: www.therrazzroom.com...]

Nalley's interpretation of Simone's "Misssisippi Goddam" is jaw dropping. (Here's Simone)

Youtube Video

By Nina Simone's own admission, this was her first civil rights song. It was inspired by the murder of four girls in the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church on 15 September 1963 by members of the Ku Klux Klan.

765

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 9:59:26am

re: #761 Guanxi88

Oh. You sorta threw me for a loop with your citified high-tech talk there.

(this is a guy who still has his "good pens" and "best paper" for letters he WRITES, people, by hand. I'll probably end up in Colonial Williamsburg before too long.)

766

engineer cat Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:00:06am

re: #745 Winny Spencer

I wonder who will win the debate tonight.

i wonder who will "win" the debate tonight

fyt

767

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:00:13am

re: #762 Alouette

Not even the far, far moonbat left publishes anything by NK. ...snip.

Not even Ha'aretz?

768

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:00:21am

re: #763 allegro

It's the next episode in a serial that's kinda important to us. I'm kinda weird that way.

You're voting GOP but don't care why?

No, I mean these dog-and-pony shows at the start of things. Why even bother with it? It's too damned early in the year, and it's too damned hot in the day, to put up with the needless aggravation of it all.

769

allegro Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:01:18am

re: #768 Guanxi88

No, I mean these dog-and-pony shows at the start of things. Why even bother with it? It's too damned early in the year, and it's too damned hot in the day, to put up with the needless aggravation of it all.

Ohhh, I see. That makes sense. :)

770

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:02:25am

re: #767 Decatur Deb

Not even Ha'aretz?

Oh hell no. Haaretz absolutely hates the Haredim. Maybe not as much as YNet, but certainly enough to not publish anything they produce, even if it fits their editorial slant.

771

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:02:47am

re: #769 allegro

Ohhh, I see. That makes sense. :)

Let them do their thing; stuff will shake out as it shakes out, and we'll end up with an establishment type who talks the talk but walks a different walk, and the country will, under his leadership, go to Hell in a manner otherwise than it had been before his election.

That's politics, is it not?

772

Guanxi88 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:03:55am

All right, sleep calls.

Play nice, folk, and if you can't be nice, be arbitrary.

773

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:04:26am

Keyboard buffer is so freaking slow, it's almost like back in the days of the 1200 baud modem.

774

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:04:30am

re: #770 Alouette

Oh hell no. Haaretz absolutely hates the Haredim. Maybe not as much as YNet, but certainly enough to not publish anything they produce, even if it fits their editorial slant.

Well, they publish about them. Some in our office thought Ha'aretz was left of Pravda.

775

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:06:05am

re: #774 Decatur Deb

Well, they publish about them. Some in our office thought Ha'aretz was left of Pravda.

Well yeah, all the scandals and nasty stuff, to feed the hate.

776

ReamWorks SKG Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:08:55am

re: #762 Alouette

!איך רעדן ייִדיש

But generally, today, the only people under 80 who can read and write grammatical Yiddish in Yiddish orthography are some Satmar families in NY whose family still speak it at home because Hebrew is too holy for daily use, etc.

(I learned it through very patient grandparents, and I'd read the Daily Forward daily when it was still sold through the 70s and early 80s.)

777

Vicious Michigan Union Thug Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:13:57am

re: #776 reuven

!איך רעדן ייִדיש

But generally, today, the only people under 80 who can read and write grammatical Yiddish in Yiddish orthography are some Satmar families in NY whose family still speak it at home because Hebrew is too holy for daily use, etc.

(I learned it through very patient grandparents, and I'd read the Daily Forward daily when it was still sold through the 70s and early 80s.)

I hate the fucking "Daily Forward" (which is a weakly[pun intended], btw). Still patting themselves on the back for improvements in working conditions (in the U.S.), while at the same time not giving a fuck that "Triangle Shirtwaist" disasters are still happening in Bangladesh.

778

ReamWorks SKG Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:14:41am

re: #777 Alouette

It was not quite the same years ago....

779

Henchman 25 Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:20:01am

I'd imagine the debate will be a lot like watching the Three Stooges, only with all the comedy taken out and replaced with cringe-worthy, idealogical bullshit.

780

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:21:54am

re: #743 Alouette

Naomi Chomsky and Neturei Karta, who'da thought they had anything in common?

re: #762 Alouette

Not even the far, far moonbat left publishes anything by NK. My guess is that NK are not fluent enough in English to write anything even a moonbat would find coherent. And nobody else is fluent enough in Yiddish to bother translating any of their rants.

The truthcrank and antiwar set loves the concept of "Jews not zionists"; in fact, that's how I heard about them, was through them becoming more prominent in antiwar circles. These are the types duped in the 00s by that shit at whatreallyhappened, and Alex Jones. Keep in mind, a lot of people even 4-5 years ago considered Alex Jones to be "left" (lol and I have the banned screen names from message boards to prove it, from making the case that he is NOT. lol now some of those people are thanking me.)

This is how far-gone many on the left really are/were. Today, reactionary, eliminationist so-called "anti-Zionism" isn't a plank in the D. platform and fing better not ever be, but it's a given in many left circles, due in large part to truthcrankage, MUJCA, NK, and others like Jewish Voice for Peace. On the left, they get used in the EXACT same way as C. Thomas, Herman Cain, Alveda King, Condi and Colin before they got dumped by the white conservative bigots, or Booker T Washington -- strictly as trotted out tokens with nothing but symbolic moral value. It's also worth it to see just how many of those make a big show of being supposedly "pro-Israel", Herman Cain for instance is going to Glenn Beck's nutbagger rally in Jerusalem, I guess complete with his loyalty oath for Muslims policy :/

781

darthstar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:22:55am

Slow start to the week...
[Link: animalvideos.yahoo.com...]

782

darthstar Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:23:39am

re: #781 darthstar

Slow start to the week...
[Link: animalvideos.yahoo.com...]

Never mind...fuckin' Yahoo sucks and so do their links.

783

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:23:53am

re: #738 Killgore Trout

Scientists create a biological laser beam

DARPA trying to weaponize fire-flies. Part of the War on Children.

784

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:26:07am

re: #764 reuven

Slightly Apropos:

KCSM just had Kim Nalley on, who's doing a show at the Razz Room (SF) "Kim Nalley sings Nina Simone"

[Link: www.therrazzroom.com...]

Nalley's interpretation of Simone's "Misssisippi Goddam" is jaw dropping. (Here's Simone)

[Video]

Yeah, that's an early version, from Nina Simone in Concert. I should find Nalley's version. It takes some ovaries to try and cover "Mississippi Goddam".

785

albusteve Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:28:17am

re: #779 SteelPH

I'd imagine the debate will be a lot like watching the Three Stooges, only with all the comedy taken out and replaced with cringe-worthy, idealogical bullshit.

more or less agree...mail me the results

786

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:31:01am

re: #777 Alouette

I hate the fucking "Daily Forward" (which is a weakly[pun intended], btw). Still patting themselves on the back for improvements in working conditions (in the U.S.), while at the same time not giving a fuck that "Triangle Shirtwaist" disasters are still happening in Bangladesh.

I had a sub to The Forward the past few years -- couldn't renew this past year. I did enjoy their headlines from past Forwards, but I do love old newsprint and magazines, so..

787

ReamWorks SKG Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:31:48am

re: #784 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, that's an early version, from Nina Simone in Concert. I should find Nalley's version. It takes some ovaries to try and cover "Mississippi Goddam".

.99 on Amazon.com!

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

788

The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:31:56am

re: #739 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

White leaders of the era cast Booker T in those terms because of his perceived accomodationism of a two-tiered society with whites ever-on-top.

He reminds me of the guys during the Raj who believed that sufficient assimilation of British norms plus appropriate deferance would mean greater uplift and freedom for all Indians: those who really thought that the Brits were sincerely about equal citizenship of all Imperial citizens. They're frustrating and sad to read about. Gandhi started out as one...during his activism in South Africa. The British mocked these guys even harder than they did the unassimilated Indians--Kipling in particular in his poems about "babus."

It reminds me of today's white conservatives pushing Herman Cain...Or twenty years ago, Clarence Thomas, a Danforth family stooge, who tries to vote down the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

Herman Cain continues to vex me. He's a smart charismatic man, but he is absolutely playing to a white crowd. In anthropology we'd call his particular style a variant of "assimilation narrative": the subaltern peoples--in this case, African-Americans--should be trying to actively dimiish any culture identity that makes their superalterns--white Americans--uncomfortable.

Coincidentally [/sarcasm], the assimilation narrative is a shortcut to shutting down complaints about inequality within the societal system. Prejudice is not a failing emanating from the top-down, but somehow a sign of insufficient diligence on the part of those discriminated against. Furthermore, the goalpost of "sufficient assimilation" is designed to be moved: if you're the subaltern, the people placing themselves above you get to be the arbiters on your authentic-ness: shockingly, there's always some little differance remaining

Cain has also used that ripe phrase "the Democrat plantation" when referring to AA voters. Ergo; pandering jackass.

Thomas is all that, plus petty and nuts. I read excerpts from his memoir and gleaned that (1) he thinks every successul AA but he himself have risen as a result of exploiting their race, and (2) the world of composed of people conspiring to drag him down for succeeding without exploiting his race.

789

The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:50:36am

re: #739 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

There are parallels on the left (I brought it up since there is a parallel conversation in this thread going on about Israel) where the only acceptable Jewish colleagues are those who can't stand the thought of Israel as a country, or even worse, the Satmar/Neturei Karta types, who think Jews are theologically bound/cursed to "wander" and be stateless.

Left, right, D, R, L, P or whatever, all of the above is reactionary conservatism afaic. I don't care what letters are after people's names.

There's a part of the liberal cloud that tend to essentialize race and romanticize culture, but also feel that they're the arbitors of "authenticity." Bluntly, people who think like this are usually white, and don't recognize the conceit and priveledge that belies dictating to others the terms and parameters of their identity. Some of the worst left-side critiques of Obama have pushed the angle of "...he's not doing what we want, so he's not black enough." Bill Maher's particular version comes to mind, as it invokes the image of black men as gangsters...something about getting angry and putting caps in people. Utter horseshit.

Independent of politics, there's a state of unacknowledged priveledge that is always reactionary. While America was never de facto a colonial power, our construction of identity has had many features in common with those of the colonial superpowers. These assumptions about our own moral clarity, our position to dictate to others with legitimate ethical authority, and our exceptionality within the world color all sides of our politics.

790

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 10:53:36am

Oh yes and the re: #788 The Ghost of a Flea

Furthermore, the goalpost of "sufficient assimilation" is designed to be moved: if you're the subaltern, the people placing themselves above you get to be the arbiters on your authentic-ness: shockingly, there's always some little differance remaining

Yeah, white conservatives are the only people falling for any of those assimilationist narratives. Even as a Black conservative myself in the 80s, we did not take them seriously because we knew what is still in effect today: we will always be able to use their sustained, xenophobia-based ignorance against them. So it doesn't matter how much you try to assimilate, like the subject of the story found out what we have been telling his ilk for generations: yes, they think of ALL of us as monkeys.

So I take heart in 2 things: 1- the Herman Cains and Dinesh D'Souzas of the world only appeal to white conservative bigots so 2- their designation as pre-approved Coloreds is the only reward coming to them. The white conservative bigots will NEVER let Cain get the GOP nomination because they know the incumbent will squash him like a bug and one worse, if Obama was not Black, they would NEVER support Cain for any public office in a million years.

I say, revel in your differance and negritude. That attitude is the foundation of Civil Rights movements. Damn the rest if they don't like it.

791

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:09:06am

re: #789 The Ghost of a Flea

Independent of politics, there's a state of unacknowledged priveledge that is always reactionary. While America was never de facto a colonial power, our construction of identity has had many features in common with those of the colonial superpowers. These assumptions about our own moral clarity, our position to dictate to others with legitimate ethical authority, and our exceptionality within the world color all sides of our politics.

Yeah that's what the 17 Black conservatives of the world and the rest of us have in common and snicker together about behind the backs of the majority. Nobody goes by that. We have our own standards of authenticity, definitely contested, none set in stone, often based in politics; but at the end of the day, everybody shows up to the other parent's kid's piano recitals and breaks bread together.

As for unacknowledged -- I call it "unearned" -- privilege, that extends beyond class, education level, and color. It's sexuality, perceived ability, gender, religion, all manner of things. The early 70s Disability Rights movement had a placard.."I can't even get ON the bus" let alone to the g.d. back of the bus.

792

gandalf.il Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:24:11am

Can someone please, once and for all, explain to me the connection between chicken, watermelon and racism?

Seen it on many stand up comedies. Don't get it...

793

What, me worry? Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:29:58am

re: #792 gandalf.il

Can someone please, once and for all, explain to me the connection between chicken, watermelon and racism?

Seen it on many stand up comedies. Don't get it...

Are you daft?

794

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:35:13am

re: #792 gandalf.il

Can someone please, once and for all, explain to me the connection between chicken, watermelon and racism?

Seen it on many stand up comedies. Don't get it...

It's just dumb supremacist sterotypes from the minstrelsy era. Hollywood didn't exactly help. I recommend folx watch all of these. The stereotypes have not changed much at all.

See:

Youtube Video

I had never even heard of the watermelon stereotype until some classmate in my all-white Christian high school asked me in all seriousness if I liked it.

To me, it was a total non-sequitur. To them, it was an honest question. They were dumb and ignorant, I was naive and 14, still believing the integrationist line that all they needed was to see that we Blacks were "people just like them".

But despite that other stereotype, I learned quickly.

795

jaunte Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:35:40am

re: #792 gandalf.il

Let me Google that for you:
[Link: edgeofthewest.wordpress.com...]

796

gandalf.il Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:35:46am

re: #793 marjoriemoon

I don't mean to upset anyone. I'm not from the US, and honestly do not understand that reference or the connection.
*honestly* it seems very weird to me that chickens and watermelons would have anything to do with race.

797

gandalf.il Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:37:05am

re: #794 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

10x!

798

Obdicut Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:40:29am

re: #794 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Better question: what group doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?

That's just good stuff.

799

What, me worry? Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:47:26am

re: #796 gandalf.il

I don't mean to upset anyone. I'm not from the US, and honestly do not understand that reference or the connection.
*honestly* it seems very weird to me that chickens and watermelons would have anything to do with race.

Are you from Israel? Or should I check with Charles first?

It may be helpful to explain a little more when you ask questions like that since I have a really hard time with your "innocence" seeing as you've been here for 4 years.

And that's an A - #1 - First Hand remark from racists.

My trust factor is about down to Zero. Maybe less than that at this point.

800

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:50:18am

re: #796 gandalf.il

I don't mean to upset anyone. I'm not from the US, and honestly do not understand that reference or the connection.
*honestly* it seems very weird to me that chickens and watermelons would have anything to do with race.

It doesn't. You think that's something, you should see all the nasty stereotypes white Americans have come up with against each other. They used to kill each other over mere theological differences, just like they did in their old countries. In later, nicer years, white-on-white animosities got subsumed into vaudeville and other entertainments. Today, it's known as ethnic humor which still endures as redneck jokes, Sarah Silverman and Lisa Lampanelli. Lots of others, too.

801

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:52:01am

re: #798 Obdicut

Better question: what group doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon?

That's just good stuff.

Yeah, tell me about it. I live in the Bay Area where people pretend not to go to Popeyes' two pieces for a dollar Tuesday special, but I know better.

802

The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jun 13, 2011 11:59:52am

re: #790 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

re: #791 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Well said, and I entirely agree.

803

jvic Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:02:40pm

re: #800 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

It doesn't. You think that's something, you should see all the nasty stereotypes white Americans have come up with against each other...

I'm taking a wild guess that "elected Orange County Republican Party Central Committee member Marilyn Davenport" isn't too keen on white ethnics like me either.

804

gandalf.il Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:07:09pm

re: #799 marjoriemoon

Yes I am from Israel.

I've been here for 4 years, It is not the first time I see that connection, I just never understood it. OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin's videos tought me something...

Sorry to hear I lost your trust, but I meant no offence, and did not realize this would be considered a racist comment.

But try to look at it with the eyes of an outsider: I've heard about many mean, evil stereotypes in my life, but this just have to be the dumbest of them all.
How did anyone even come up with that one I'll never know.
Anyway I assure you, no offense was meant.

805

gandalf.il Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:08:22pm

re: #800 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I think I had enough for one day....

We live in a crazy world

806

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:14:08pm

re: #803 jvic

I'm taking a wild guess that "elected Orange County Republican Party Central Committee member Marilyn Davenport" isn't too keen on white ethnics like me either.

I would not doubt it, at all. Marilyn Davenport types are my peer group, I grew up having to sit next to them in school and college and they are vicious. The only reason OC Republican whites pretend to like non-WASPs is because they think they can votebank them on conservative Christian things like antigay and antiabortion, and in recent years on lipservice to supporting Israel as a country. MAYBE once in a blue moon they can appeal to some groups who have had the middleman/model minority experience, but in reality they just look down on them.

That's too bad, because a lot of white conservatives in southern California are from hardcore, looked-down-upon white ethnic backgrounds, themselves, e.g. dustbowl Okies and Mormon/LDS. A lot of their political pathology is just aggravated class anxiety, and projected self-loathing.

807

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:25:09pm

re: #804 gandalf.il

Yes I am from Israel.

I've been here for 4 years, It is not the first time I see that connection, I just never understood it. OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin's videos tought me something...

Sorry to hear I lost your trust, but I meant no offence, and did not realize this would be considered a racist comment.

But try to look at it with the eyes of an outsider: I've heard about many mean, evil stereotypes in my life, but this just have to be the dumbest of them all.
How did anyone even come up with that one I'll never know.
Anyway I assure you, no offense was meant.

I've never been to .il, but I'm sure every country has old lingering stereotypes that have become stock for jokes. Here, all anti-Black stereotypes these days are rooted in 19th century blackface minstresly, a lot of which got taken up later by Vaudeville, and then the radio/tv/film industries. That happened because those images sold product -- the more they were replicated, the more they were believed, and the more they sold, thus the more they propagated. And so it went.

Today, people will still tell one those stereotypes are based in realities, even as they cannot point to any historical realities themselves, except for old stereotypes (or some personal anecdote where they once saw some random Black person walking into KFC.) The stereotypes are perpetuated by ignorance that comes from not ever knowing any of the targets of the stereotypes. And so it goes.

808

wrenchwench Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:30:01pm

re: #794 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I had never even heard of the watermelon stereotype until some classmate in my all-white Christian high school asked me in all seriousness if I liked it.

I take it from the context that it was an all-white-but-one Christian high school?

I'm still watching the movie. What a riot.

809

The Ghost of a Flea Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:34:43pm

re: #806 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

That's too bad, because a lot of white conservatives in southern California are from hardcore, looked-down-upon white ethnic backgrounds, themselves, e.g. dustbowl Okies and Mormon/LDS. A lot of their political pathology is just aggravated class anxiety, and projected self-loathing.

Never underestimate the simple joy of rising enough in society to look down on somebody.

810

Decatur Deb Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:44:47pm

re: #807 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

I've never been to .il, but I'm sure every country has old lingering stereotypes that have become stock for jokes. Here, all anti-Black stereotypes these days are rooted in 19th century blackface minstresly, a lot of which got taken up later by Vaudeville, and then the radio/tv/film industries. That happened because those images sold product -- the more they were replicated, the more they were believed, and the more they sold, thus the more they propagated. And so it went.

Today, people will still tell one those stereotypes are based in realities, even as they cannot point to any historical realities themselves, except for old stereotypes (or some personal anecdote where they once saw some random Black person walking into KFC.) The stereotypes are perpetuated by ignorance that comes from not ever knowing any of the targets of the stereotypes. And so it goes.

Watermelon goes a long way back, but KFC is either recent or local. I spent much of the 60s and 70s in Kentucky. The franchise was just taking off bigtime, and the Colonel had just sold to Pepsi. There was no notion among my college or assembly-line fellows that it had anything to do with race there/then.

811

What, me worry? Mon, Jun 13, 2011 12:52:41pm

re: #794 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Love the 3 vids. I'm looking through them now, but I just want to make one comment about Hollywood. I think it's been a process for them, the movie industry, and one that hasn't come STILL as far as I'd like to see it.

There was a time when blacks were simply not allowed to act at all and we got white actors in "black face". When Black actors finally got roles, they were stereotypical - butlers (Shirley Temple) or maids (Gone with the Wind). The voices, the jokes, the wide-eyes - all stereotypical.

OTOH, Bill Robinson (Mr. Bojangles) who danced with Shirley Temple was very famous. Butterfly McQueen (Prissy) and Hattie McDaniel who played Mammy was the first African American woman to win an academy award.

We look at them now and maybe cringe, but they were the trail blazers for black actors.

Hollywood is not as integrated as I'd like to see it. I was still a bit disgusted at all the gushing and fuss that was made of Gabourey Sidibe, but let me ask you. Did any of those hoity toity white gals invite her to dinner or a night on the town?

812

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 3:48:43pm

re: #811 marjoriemoon

Love the 3 vids. I'm looking through them now, but I just want to make one comment about Hollywood. I think it's been a process for them, the movie industry, and one that hasn't come STILL as far as I'd like to see it.

There was a time when blacks were simply not allowed to act at all and we got white actors in "black face".

And yellowface, redface, brownface, etc... expanded opportunities for whites who didn't have to worry about competition from anyone else. Myrna Loy talked about being put in those roles in her autobiography, and was extremely critical of it.

OTOH, Bill Robinson (Mr. Bojangles) who danced with Shirley Temple was very famous. Butterfly McQueen (Prissy) and Hattie McDaniel who played Mammy was the first African American woman to win an academy award.

Hollywood could have done a lot better but chose not to. In fact, the vast majority of Black performers already famous in our own circles long before Hollywood. "Rufus Jones for President" is a great example -- Ethel Waters had been a recording and Broadway actress for a decade before making it. Then, there was tiny Sammy Davis Jr., who was shoved into those kinds of roles from the time he could walk.

Lol I have each of his autobiographies. Each one is increasingly more pissed off than the last, and I do not blame him one bit.

cont'd

813

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:01:47pm

re: #811 marjoriemoon

We look at them now and maybe cringe, but they were the trail blazers for black actors.

Hollywood is not as integrated as I'd like to see it. I was still a bit disgusted at all the gushing and fuss that was made of Gabourey Sidibe, but let me ask you. Did any of those hoity toity white gals invite her to dinner or a night on the town?

Ah, plus ça change. That reminds of a classic era anecdote I once read. There is an interesting comment by Jeni LeGon, a dancer who ended up in Hollywood in the mid-30s, though not for long....you mentioned Bill Robinson -- Jeni Le Gon was the only grown up female to appear onscreen in a dance routine with him. She said in a book called Tap that the only people who befriended her were Al Jolson and Ruby Keeler. It kind of fits, since Ruby Keeler took a lot from Black dance, but also made tap on film very glamorous. Al, well, what can we say about Jolie that hasn't already been said. Hafta say, until I read that from Ms. LeGon, I thought I had heard it all.

The only cringing I do is at the repressive production codes, social norms benefitting white conservative bigots, and studio heads that had people working under those conditions. They had the oppty and the resources to do much better - check out this Warner Bros video from 1944, "Jammin the Blues"...it is AMAZING, gorgeous in every way.

Youtube Video

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OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:07:49pm

re: #808 wrenchwench

I take it from the context that it was an all-white-but-one Christian high school?

All-white, except a couple half-white half-something else people trying desperately to get everyone to regard them as 100% white. And yes, me. Total waste of money, time, effort, and general humanity.

815

OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Mon, Jun 13, 2011 4:13:28pm

re: #809 The Ghost of a Flea

Never underestimate the simple joy of rising enough in society to look down on somebody.

Yeah see, that's what puzzles me about those kind of white conservatives. Their politics seems limited to complaining about how miserable everyone else makes them -- government, immigrants, taxes, regulations, nonwhite kids sitting next to theirs in school and college, other people demanding the same rights as them as if it's some kind of zero sum game...nothing but handwringing and anxiety that some vague threat is coming to take what little stupid material crap they have accumulated in the past couple generations. Lol I suppose you could say I look down on that kind of living :p.

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