Fake Outrage of the Day: Hilary Rosen Criticizes Ann Romney, Right Wing Goes Nuts

The right is intellectually bankrupt, and desperate to conceal it
Politics • Views: 33,482

Another day, another completely fake right wing outrage. Today’s trumped-up nonsense from the right involves Democratic strategist Hilary Rosen, who criticized Mitt Romney for using his wife to claim he understood the difficulties faced by working women. Rosen’s exact words were: “Guess what, his wife has actually never worked a day in her life.”

And a screaming went across the right wing sky, as they all realized they could use this statement to distract from the insane right wing war on women’s rights. As if by magic, every right wing blog and every right wing media source began frantically shouting in unison that this proves Democrats are waging a war on motherhood!

If it weren’t so mind-numbingly stupid, it would be funny. But this is what the right has devolved into — a giant echo chamber where the only thing that matters is destroying political opponents, honesty be damned.

Here’s Hilary Rosen’s reply to this latest bogus outrage: Hilary Rosen: Ann Romney and Working Moms.

Spare me the faux anger from the right who view the issue of women’s rights and advancement as a way to score political points. When it comes to supporting policies that would actually help women, their silence has been deafening. I don’t need lectures from the RNC on supporting women and fighting to increase opportunities for women; I’ve been doing it my whole career. If they want to attack me and distract the public’s attention away from their nominee’s woeful record, it just demonstrates how much they just don’t get it.

My favorite tweet was from someone who said that Republicans like Ann Romney so much more than Mitt that by attacking her (which I didn’t), I got people to defend him in a way they never would.

That last one I can actually understand.

Now let’s be clear on one thing. I have no judgements about women who work outside the home vs. women who work in the home raising a family. I admire women who can stay home and raise their kids full-time. I even envy them sometimes. It is a wonderful luxury to have the choice. But let’s stipulate that it is NOT a choice that most women have in America today.

Why does this even matter? It matters purely because Mitt Romney put the issue of his wife’s views squarely on the table.

As Ruth Marcus noted in her column yesterday in the Washington Post, Romney, when asked last week about the gender gap, twice said he wished his wife could take the question.

“My wife has the occasion, as you know, to campaign on her own and also with me,” Romney told newspaper editors, “and she reports to me regularly that the issue women care about most is the economy.”

So it begs the question, is Ann Romney Mitt’s touchstone for women who are struggling economically or not? Nothing in Ann Romney’s history as we have heard it — hardworking mom she may have been — leads me to believe that Mitt has chosen the right expert to get feedback on this problem he professes to be so concerned about.

UPDATE at 4/12/12 11:00:10 am

And now, the inevitable politically driven apology.

(CNN) – Hilary Rosen offered an apology Thursday after her comments about Ann Romney sparked an uproar and a debate over women and the economy.

“I apologize to Ann Romney and anyone else who was offended,” Rosen, a top Democratic strategist and CNN contributor, said in a statement. “Let’s declare peace in this phony war and go back to focus on the substance.”

Jump to bottom

545 comments
1 Bulworth  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 9:56:48am

And strangely I've never heard Republican officials or their media mouthpieces trumpet the virtues of stay-at-home-motherhood if said mother is single and receives welfare income.

2 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 9:57:31am

Contrast this with the constant acrimony and savage idiocy of the attacks against our First Lady, Michelle Obama.

3 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:00:22am

If you need an outreach coordinator to have any understanding of more than half of the population you seek to govern, you're not really in any position to try to govern.

I don't presume to know about and understand all issues pertaining to women, but I know better than to try to outsource this to my other half.

4 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:00:49am

Best possible outcome: stay-at-home moms become eligible for pay and benefits. But that's not what the wingnuts had in mind.

5 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:02:07am

I'm sorry its not fake outrage. The mommy wars are over. Choice should be about the ability to choose the life that is best for your family. I am a stay at home mom and my husband is not at all rich.

6 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:02:09am

I never heard of this Hilary Rosen, but she's just as stupid and angry as the wingnuts who constantly attack Michelle Obama.

7 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:02:44am

re: #2 Randall Gross

Contrast this with the constant acrimony and savage idiocy of the attacks against our First Lady, Michelle Obama.

I think any attacks on Michelle or her children are disgusting and shouldn't happen.

8 SpaceJesus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:02:52am

I agree that the outrage is fake, but she is still dumb for making the statement given how rhetoric plays in politics today. also she needs to learn how to spell judgments correctly.

9 thatthatisis  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:03:07am

re: #1 Bulworth

And strangely I've never heard Republican officials or their media mouthpieces trumpet the virtues of stay-at-home-motherhood if said mother is single and receives welfare income.

Some choices are more equal than others.

10 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:04:52am

There are stay at home moms and then there are stay at home moms who reside in a household with a net worth of close to 1/5th of a billion dollars; car elevators; Cadillacs; limos; private jets; the ability to afford nannies, maids, butlers; the best health insurance money can buy for everyone in the household; college education for the children in the bank; Swiss bank accounts; private jets; etc.

11 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:05:08am

re: #2 Randall Gross

Contrast this with the constant acrimony and savage idiocy of the attacks against our First Lady, Michelle Obama.

A very nice roundup of what you're talking about from a Daily Kos diary:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

12 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:05:59am

Rosen did not put down stay-at-home moms. That's the fake outrage. She criticized Mitt Romney for trying to use his wife to immunize himself against the charge that he's terrible on women's right -- and he IS terrible on women's rights.

Don't buy into this bogus framing, that Rosen was saying mothers don't work. She did not say that at all. She said Ann Romney didn't work, and she was right. How many nannies, housekeepers, and au pairs has Ann Romney employed? Her experience raising kids is nothing like the average woman's, and Mitt's attempt to picture it like that is simply dishonest.

13 Tigger2005  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:06:31am

Sorry to go OT so quickly, but good Lord the "History Channel" sure broadcasts a lot of pseudohistorical nonsense.

Caught some of a show during my break in which various talking heads were claiming in all seriousness that stories in ancient texts about gods with "lightning swords" and flaming arrows and light rays were obviously referring to advanced laser and plasma beam technology which "probably came from extraterrestrials."

14 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:06:56am

re: #8 SpaceJesus

I agree that the outrage is fake, but she is still dumb for making the statement given how rhetoric plays in politics today. also she needs to learn how to spell judgments correctly.

I thought you were Jesus, not Noah Webster. Also: Judgement, metre, colour.

15 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:07:32am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Rosen did not put down stay-at-home moms. That's the fake outrage. She criticized Mitt Romney for trying to use his wife to immunize himself against the charge that he's terrible on women's right -- and he IS terrible on women's rights.

Don't buy into this bogus framing, that Rosen was saying mothers don't work. She did not say that at all. She said Ann Romney didn't work, and she was right. How many nannies, housekeepers, and au pairs has Ann Romney employed? Her experience raising kids is nothing like the average woman's, and Mitt's attempt to picture it like that is simply dishonest.

Ms. Rosen should have directed her anger at Mitt instead of attacking Ann because of something that Mitt said.

16 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:07:36am

re: #5 CSUH2001

I'm sorry its not fake outrage. The mommy wars are over. Choice should be about the ability to choose the life that is best for your family. I am a stay at home mom and my husband is not at all rich.

And which party is it that would take choice away from women again? While it was clumsy and ill-advised I'm pretty sure Ms. Rosen's message was that Mrs. Romney has no idea what it's like for women who are trying to make rent/mortgage, feed and educate their children. Let's ask her how many maids and nannys helped her raise her 5 boys.

17 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:07:56am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

How many nannies, housekeepers, and au pairs has Ann Romney employed?

Good point.

18 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:08:02am

re: #10 Gus

There are stay at home moms and then there are stay at home moms who reside in a household with a net worth of close to 1/5th of a billion dollars; car elevators; Cadillacs; limos; private jets; the ability to afford nannies, maids, butlers; the best health insurance money can buy for everyone in the household; college education for the children in the bank; Swiss bank accounts; private jets; etc.

Yeah, not quite the same thing as daddy working 2 min wage jobs and mommy having to stay home because child care while both were at work would just eat one or the others paycheck before it is even printed.

19 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:08:56am

re: #13 Tigger2005

Sorry to go OT so quickly, but good Lord the "History Channel" sure broadcasts a lot of pseudohistorical nonsense.

Caught some of a show during my break in which various talking heads were claiming in all seriousness that stories in ancient texts about gods with "lightning swords" and flaming arrows and light rays were obviously referring to advanced laser and plasma beam technology which "probably came from extraterrestrials."

They really need to go back to Hitler and the civil war.

20 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:09:10am

Mitt Romney's Maids' Salary Raises Questions

WASHINGTON -- For a woman with three houses and sixteen grandkids, Ann Romney doesn't have very much help around the house, according to her 2010 tax return.

IRS forms released Tuesday by Mitt Romney's presidential campaign show that despite reporting income of $21.7 million, the couple paid only $20,603 in taxable wages for household help in 2010. This figure was divided among four women: Rosania Costa ($4,808), Kelli Harrison ($8,667), Susan Moore ($2,238) and Valerie Cravens Anae ($4,890).

According to a number of Boston-based domestic staffing agencies, the salary range for a housekeeper is between $20 and $30 an hour, which adds up to an annual salary of $40,000 to $50,000 based on forty-hour weeks and two weeks of paid vacation a year...

21 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:09:16am

Class warfare doesn't work with me. I'm not jealous of any family who can offer more to their children. My husband makes less than 80K and we have four children.

22 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:09:40am
“My wife has the occasion, as you know, to campaign on her own and also with me,” Romney told newspaper editors, “and she reports to me regularly that the issue women care about most is the economy.”

What Ann left out is that nothing is more important to a woman's personal economy as the ability to control her reproduction as she wishes.

Mitt needs more perspectives than just Ann's.

23 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:10:15am

Someone forgot to tell these Dems that this is a fake outrage...

CNN:

...The senior adviser to President Barack Obama's reelection bid also took to Twitter to distance the campaign from the comments.

"Also Disappointed in Hilary Rosen's comments about Ann Romney," David Axelrod wrote. "They were inappropriate and offensive."

Obama deputy campaign manager Stephanie Cutter posted, "Families must be off limits on campaigns, and I personally believe stay at home moms work harder than most of us do."

...

24 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:11:17am

re: #16 leftynyc

And which party is it that would take choice away from women again? While it was clumsy and ill-advised I'm pretty sure Ms. Rosen's message was that Mrs. Romney has no idea what it's like for women who are trying to make rent/mortgage, feed and educate their children. Let's ask her how many maids and nannys helped her raise her 5 boys.

When you mention choice I suppose its a reference to abortion? That's a different debate. I have no idea what life is like for a mother with a severely autistic child, what is the point? I am human so I have empathy.

25 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:11:44am

re: #5 CSUH2001

I'm sorry its not fake outrage. The mommy wars are over. Choice should be about the ability to choose the life that is best for your family. I am a stay at home mom and my husband is not at all rich.

Glad you had that choice and that Ann Romney did as well. But the party that her hubby just secured the nomination of, the party that wants to take back the reins of power in D.C., says that women shouldn't have that choice, that if a working woman doesn't feel she's ready or financially secure enough to have a child, then that's too bad because their "morals" say she decided she is by having sex.

26 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:13:04am

re: #23 NJDhockeyfan

Just because Democrats are trying to avoid political damage doesn't make it any less of a fake outrage.

27 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:13:10am

re: #2 Randall Gross

Contrast this with the constant acrimony and savage idiocy of the attacks against our First Lady, Michelle Obama.

QFT. At least Ann Romney doesn't have to explain a constant barrage of filthy racism and barely veiled threats directed at her & her entire family either.

I don't believe for a second that those beautiful little girls Sasha & Malia are unaware of the horrible things said about their parents or the disgusting photoshopped images of them that get passed around.

One day, future generations this country are going to look back and be mortified at how horribly our first black president & first lady were treated. They're going to feel the same sickness in the put of their stomachs that we feel when we look at awful images from the Jim Crow & Civil Rights eras.

28 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:13:14am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

That said, several Democratic leaders/strategists (like Axelrod) have condemned Rosen's take on this, saying that family is out of bounds. They may be missing the "debate" point, but this is probably a needless distraction from other issues.

29 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:13:52am

re: #24 CSUH2001

When you mention choice I suppose its a reference to abortion? That's a different debate. I have no idea what life is like for a mother with a severely autistic child, what is the point? I am human so I have empathy.

Or, you know, the choice to try to earn as much as men.

30 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:14:07am

re: #24 CSUH2001

When you mention choice I suppose its a reference to abortion? That's a different debate. I have no idea what life is like for a mother with a severely autistic child, what is the point? I am human so I have empathy.

Well, what choice are you talking about? The choice the wife (And only the wife) has to make to either work or take care of the kids? And, of course, there will be kids since not having them isn't a valid choice, clearly.

31 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:14:27am

re: #25 Targetpractice

Glad you had that choice and that Ann Romney did as well. But the party that her hubby just secured the nomination of, the party that wants to take back the reins of power in D.C., says that women shouldn't have that choice, that if a working woman doesn't feel she's ready or financially secure enough to have a child, then that's too bad because their "morals" say she decided she is by having sex.

And that, of course, is the real point. The right has seized on this statement by Rosen because they desperately need to distract attention away from this issue -- it's causing them serious harm among women voters.

32 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:14:31am
33 BlazerBeav  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:14:53am

Sorry Charles -

I fail to see how you can appropriately comment on the way Ann Romney raised her children, seeing as you have absolutely no insight on the matter. I understand that some of this outrage is indeed just being trumpeted for political reasons - but for you to dismiss the woman's efforts as a mother without any basis in fact seems wrong to me. It seems even more impressive that she did so while dealing with both cancer and MS.

34 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:15:05am

I'm not sure how the GOP is trying to restrict the ability of women to work.

35 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:15:36am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Just because Democrats are trying to avoid political damage doesn't make it any less of a fake outrage.

If they are saying that only for political reasons then those comments aren't how they really feel?

36 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:15:41am

re: #28 Johnny Derp

That said, several Democratic leaders/strategists (like Axelrod) have condemned Rosen's take on this, saying that family is out of bounds. They may be missing the "debate" point, but this is probably a needless distraction from other issues.

My general rule of thumb is that family is off-limits until the candidate either has them out there campaigning or is using them as a stage prop. The former makes them fair game, the latter just makes the candidate look like a fool.

37 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:16:10am

re: #20 Gus

Mitt Romney's Maids' Salary Raises Questions

That was for 2010. Their youngest child is what, 31? So looking to what they spent on child care or nanny's you would have to go back quite a few years to get a true number for that.

38 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:16:12am

re: #15 Learned Mother of Zion

Ms. Rosen should have directed her anger at Mitt instead of attacking Ann because of something that Mitt said.

I must be missing something because I don't see where Rosen attacked Ann Romney.

39 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:16:28am

re: #24 CSUH2001

When you mention choice I suppose its a reference to abortion? That's a different debate. I have no idea what life is like for a mother with a severely autistic child, what is the point? I am human so I have empathy.

That's the problem with the right - choice covers a lot of ground - not just abortion. Only in very tiny minds does it just refer to abortion and Mrs. Romney rightly pointed out it's for each woman to decide how they're going to live their life which is directly contradicted by her party's platform.

40 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:16:52am

re: #34 CSUH2001

I'm not sure how the GOP is trying to restrict the ability of women to work.

Google "Blunt Amendment" and get back to me.

41 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:17:11am

re: #34 CSUH2001

I'm not sure how the GOP is trying to restrict the ability of women to work.

Let's see...

Making it harder to prevent unwanted pregnancies by making contraception harder to get. And someone needs to watch the kids, right?

Trying to make it impossible to get unwanted pregnancies by banning abortion. And someone needs to watch the kids, right?

Not caring if women get paid less for the same job than men. I mean, they'll letting them work, right? No one ever said it had to be for the same amount.

42 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:17:34am

re: #37 RayFerd

That was for 2010. Their youngest child is what, 31? So looking to what they spent on child care or nanny's you would have to go back quite a few years to get a true number for that.

Meh. Close enough for muck raking.

43 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:17:46am

re: #34 CSUH2001

I'm not sure how the GOP is trying to restrict the ability of women to work.

Lack of access to full reproductive health care can mean a woman has to interrupt her education and put her career on hold. This can impact earning potential throughout her life.

It is possible for a woman to complete her education and launch a career AFTER raising a family (I have done this) but it is by no means the most optimal method.

44 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:17:49am

re: #30 Simply Sarah

Well, what choice are you talking about? The choice the wife (And only the wife) has to make to either work or take care of the kids? And, of course, there will be kids since not having them isn't a valid choice, clearly.

I think we are misunderstanding one another. You can choose to be childless, that is a valid life. This is America. There are no forced pregnancies or forced abortions. Please don't pretend as if I have said something I haven't said. NOT having children is a great choice.

45 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:18:16am

re: #40 Targetpractice

Google "Blunt Amendment" and get back to me.

Sure, no problem.

46 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:19:02am

WaPo is running a poll...

Was Hilary Rosen out of line with her comments that Ann Romney "has never worked a day in her life."?

Yes, raising a family is a lot of work.

No, Ann Romney is out of touch with the economic issues facing working women.

47 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:19:22am

re: #38 Sionainn

I must be missing something because I don't see where Rosen attacked Ann Romney.

She didn't.

48 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:19:30am

re: #37 RayFerd

That was for 2010. Their youngest child is what, 31? So looking to what they spent on child care or nanny's you would have to go back quite a few years to get a true number for that.

Why? Do you think she cleans her homes all by herself?

49 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:19:43am

re: #23 NJDhockeyfan

Someone forgot to tell these Dems that this is a fake outrage...

CNN:

When the word "work" is used, it usually implies working at a paying job. Just ask any stay-at-home mom (or dad). Our society as a whole doesn't consider that as "work," even though it's one of the hardest jobs there is to have.

50 carlaschluge  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:19:50am

re: #43 Learned Mother of Zion

There is no lack of access to reproductive health care. The issue is whether the federal government can force private insurers to provide contraceptives for "free."

51 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:19:56am

re: #42 Gus

Meh. Close enough for muck raking.

Too true, too true.

52 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:20:13am

re: #21 CSUH2001

Class warfare doesn't work with me. I'm not jealous of any family who can offer more to their children. My husband makes less than 80K and we have four children.

In this case, I think it's gender warfare. The class part gets in the way of showing that women rarely have as many choices open to them as men do. Rich women have more choices, just as rich men do, but even rich women can't make someone hire them if they won't hire a woman, or pay them as much for the same work. However, good laws and good lawyers can accomplish that. Those laws don't come from Republicans, for the most part.

53 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:20:28am

re: #44 CSUH2001

I think we are misunderstanding one another. You can choose to be childless, that is a valid life. This is America. There are no forced pregnancies or forced abortions. Please don't pretend as if I have said something I haven't said. NOT having children is a great choice.

Except the GOP wants to do their best to take that choice away from women unless they agree to never have sex with a man. And they want to cut back on support for less well off mothers that might actually give them a choice between work and being home with the kids, leaving them forced to work to put food in their mouths.

54 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:20:30am

re: #1 Bulworth

And strangely I've never heard Republican officials or their media mouthpieces trumpet the virtues of stay-at-home-motherhood if said mother is single and receives welfare income.

Nor any Democrats for that matter. Initially, welfare for mothers with children was supposed to be just that--allow a widda lady to stay home and raise her children, rather than going out to work.

God, that seems a very long time ago, now.

55 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:20:34am

re: #35 NJDhockeyfan

If they are saying that only for political reasons then those comments aren't how they really feel?

Let me rephrase for you this is an "uncalled for outrage" as nothing actually offensive was said.

56 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:20:43am

re: #43 Learned Mother of Zion

Lack of access to full reproductive health care can mean a woman has to interrupt her education and put her career on hold. This can impact earning potential throughout her life.

It is possible for a woman to complete her education and launch a career AFTER raising a family (I have done this) but it is by no means the most optimal method.

That sounds like an abortion discussion, which I don't have. I have friends and family members who have made that choice and that is their business. I don't debate abortion.

57 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:21:00am

re: #50 carlaschluge

There is no lack of access to reproductive health care.

Bullshit.

58 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:21:39am

re: #56 CSUH2001

Don't be an idiot. Reproductive health is far more than just abortion.

59 Gepetto  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:22:10am

re: #12 Charles Johnson

How many nannies, housekeepers, and au pairs has Ann Romney employed?

hundreds, I'm sure. Job creation in action! So much better than having one of the family taking care of the kids ;/

60 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:22:22am

re: #48 leftynyc

Why? Do you think she cleans her homes all by herself?

Do the kids still live there? If not, then other than a little tidying up and maybe a 2-3 times a year going over, what is there to really clean. Mitt has been on the road almost constantly for years, and she seems to be on the go a lot. Who is there to mess things up?

61 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:22:44am

re: #46 NJDhockeyfan

WaPo is running a poll...

Well, thank goodness. Now we'll get to see how people really feel 'cause everyone knows how accurate online polls are. //

62 sagehen  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:23:08am

re: #37 RayFerd

That was for 2010. Their youngest child is what, 31? So looking to what they spent on child care or nanny's you would have to go back quite a few years to get a true number for that.

Those houses don't clean themselves.

(then again, they probably hire a service, so it wouldn't be wages to personal employees anyway.)

63 carlaschluge  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:23:18am

re: #56 CSUH2001

You're suffering from short-term memory. Sandra Fluke, remember her testimony?

64 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:23:23am

re: #50 carlaschluge

There is no lack of access to reproductive health care. The issue is whether the federal government can force private insurers to provide contraceptives for "free."

Like how they provides Viagra for "free" already?

65 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:23:50am

re: #35 NJDhockeyfan

If they are saying that only for political reasons then those comments aren't how they really feel?

They have political reasons to say what they're saying. On the other hand, I'm free to call it as I see it, and this whole thing is completely fake, drummed up to distract attention away from the GOP's crazy attacks on women's rights.

66 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:23:53am

re: #60 RayFerd


I have no idea what your situation is but do you think dust stops collecting because the chidlren are grown?

67 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:24:36am

re: #56 CSUH2001

That sounds like an abortion discussion, which I don't have. I have friends and family members who have made that choice and that is their business. I don't debate abortion.

If you won't debate abortion don't be surprised when someone takes it away from you and other women.

68 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:25:04am
Mrs. Obama replied on Twitter, saying, “Every mother works hard, and every woman deserves to be respected.”

Fake outrage!

69 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:25:16am

re: #33 BlazerBeav

Sorry Charles -

I fail to see how you can appropriately comment on the way Ann Romney raised her children, seeing as you have absolutely no insight on the matter. I understand that some of this outrage is indeed just being trumpeted for political reasons - but for you to dismiss the woman's efforts as a mother without any basis in fact seems wrong to me. It seems even more impressive that she did so while dealing with both cancer and MS.

Does one need to be Ann Romney to have insight on the matter? You seem to have some insight, since you are impressed. Saying Ann had help that few women get is not dismissing her own efforts.

I'm thinking Ann is the one lacking the insight needed to be Mitt's adviser on women's concerns.

70 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:25:35am

re: #61 CuriousLurker

Well, thank goodness. Now we'll get to see how people really feel 'cause everyone knows how accurate online polls are. //

For sure! I base all my opinion and choices off of them! And that's why I vote Ron Paul!
/

71 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:25:43am

re: #68 NJDhockeyfan

Fake outrage!

I don't see any outrage in that statement.

72 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:25:45am

re: #56 CSUH2001

That sounds like an abortion discussion, which I don't have. I have friends and family members who have made that choice and that is their business. I don't debate abortion.

Say what?!?

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:26:08am

re: #21 CSUH2001

Class warfare doesn't work with me. I'm not jealous of any family who can offer more to their children. My husband makes less than 80K and we have four children.

It's not an issue of 'jealousy'. As I said last night, the Romneys can have all the money they can get, and good luck to them.

But I do hesitate about offering the chief executive office of this country to a man who really does not seem to be aware or concerned that a great number of people IN this country are having real, serious trouble feeding their families and staying housed.

And it's not about Ann, either, except that his campaign doesn't seem to be using much common sense in letting her broadcast to the world, as she often does, that she's not too plugged in either. Wants to strangle the press. Starts Tweeting by plunging into the mommy wars--and if she didn't know that's what she was doing, the staff sure should.

74 sagehen  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:26:48am

re: #50 carlaschluge

There is no lack of access to reproductive health care. The issue is whether the federal government can force private insurers to provide contraceptives for "free."

No it's not.

Private insurers, if they cover pre-natal care and labor and delivery, would be *delighted* to toss in contraceptives for "free." They'd PREFER to offer contraceptives for "free". One pregnancy, even with zero complications, is a claim for more than an entire lifetime's contraceptives.

The Blunt Amendment said the employer can demand that the insurance company NOT cover contraceptives, on the basis that the employer's religion forbids it. As if my employer's religion should have any bearing on what I do with myself when I'm not on his clock.

75 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:26:51am

re: #62 sagehen

Those houses don't clean themselves.

(then again, they probably hire a service, so it wouldn't be wages to personal employees anyway.)

Good point.

76 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:27:04am

re: #67 jamesfirecat

If you won't debate abortion don't be surprised when someone takes it away from you and other women.

And if you're dumb enough to think that reproductive health is only code for abortion, don't be surprised when someone tries to take away birth control, emergency contraception, and access to an OB/GYN for you, especially if you're poor or middle class.

77 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:27:20am

Aren't these the same people who attack Mrs. Obama for promoting healthy eating and chuckle when a pig like Limbaugh calls her fat? Physicians heal thyselves.

78 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:27:36am

re: #56 CSUH2001

That sounds like an abortion discussion, which I don't have. I have friends and family members who have made that choice and that is their business. I don't debate abortion.

Well, the Republicans are not just debating it, they're making every effort to make it virtually impossible to obtain. That's a choice that they wish to take away from women.

79 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:29:00am

re: #66 leftynyc

I have no idea what your situation is but do you think dust stops collecting because the chidlren are grown?

My situation is that I have raised/am raising 7 kids and there is a MARKED downturn in needing to clean when they are away. But during those days I also had the kids doing the cleaning. When they would take off with the grandparents or away at some summer camp cleaning dropped to basically nothing. Dust is the least of the problems.

80 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:29:00am

re: #74 sagehen

Private insurers, if they cover pre-natal care and labor and delivery, would be *delighted* to toss in contraceptives for "free." They'd PREFER to offer contraceptives for "free". One pregnancy, even with zero complications, is a claim for more than an entire lifetime's contraceptives.

Which is exactly why the insurance companies support giving more access to contraception. It's cheaper for them in the long run, since paying for a woman's birth control pills, IUD, patch, or Depo-Provera shots is way cheaper than covering a single child.

81 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:30:07am

Sorry but this is a clown show.

Ann Romney: ‘I know what it’s like to struggle’

I don’t even consider myself wealthy, which is an interesting thing,”

82 Patricia Kayden  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:30:42am

To be fair to Ann Romney, raising 5 boys is work. However, Ms. Rosen's point was that Ann is married to a multi-millionaire and doesn't have to worry about bills, mortgages, etc., like 99% of middle class women.

The righties are waging a very effective war against women by restricting access to abortion, and now even birth control. The Democrats need to keep up the pressure.

83 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:30:46am

Sigh. OF course, I'd drive them nuts being a stay-at-home dad. My wife can bring in a far better paycheck than I could and our son needs a parent at home. Good enough for me (though my MiL freaks out on it regularly...)

84 teresa  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:31:00am

I support Mrs. Romney's choice to stay home. Although it was a very easy choice, given the wealthy family she married into. There was no economic pressure for her to work to help support her family, but it makes me slightly uncomfortable that Rosen used that particular issue to go after Mitt. But Rosen does not represent the President.

Rosen should have used a better example of Mrs. Romney's privilege, the best example of course is the issue of health insurance and the Romney's ability to afford care that others cannot afford.

Mrs. Romney has MS and has had a bout with breast cancer, in the real world, where the rest of us are, that makes her uninsurable by Republican standards. Republicans believe you should be able to be discriminated against for preexisting conditions. They don't believe in regulation. The Romney's can afford Mrs. Romney's treatments without insurance because they are wealthy beyond boundaries of my imagination. That truly separates them from the rest of us. Whether she stayed home to raise 5 boys really doesn't matter at all.

85 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:31:18am

I want to mention that I took a year long certificate course and tre: #58 Lidane

Don't be an idiot. Reproductive health is far more than just abortion.

Please don't call me an idiot, its not necessary. As I mentioned in my first post here I know the ideological bent of this blog has changed. With that being said I hope we can still discuss things decently.

You are mentioning "taking away abortion" from me as if that is a threat. And why the surprise about my silence on abortion. It should not be a political football. Contrary to what you may believe about me I have no issue with any woman aborting her child, or using birth control. These issues should not be up for debate.

86 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:31:43am

re: #8 SpaceJesus

I agree that the outrage is fake, but she is still dumb for making the statement given how rhetoric plays in politics today. also she needs to learn how to spell judgments correctly.

Agree. Ms Rosen should know better than this. It sounded like an attack on Ann Romney for choosing to stay home to raise her children.
No matter how wealthy you are, for someone to say...you have never worked a day in your life, is dumb. Especially if you have 5 kids.

She should have apologized for her choice of words and clarified. She did the latter but not the former. She has a good point that Ann Romney may not be the best judge of what women in the work force deal with on a daily basis, but she was very ill advised with that statement.

87 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:31:55am

re: #77 HappyWarrior

Aren't these the same people who attack Mrs. Obama for promoting healthy eating and chuckle when a pig like Limbaugh calls her fat? Physicians heal thyselves.

True but that blade cuts both ways. I don't think Dems should mimic the wingnuts making stupid criticisms of candidates' family members. I really don't think this is an important story. Her statement was silly, insulting and politically irrelevant.

88 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:32:59am

If Ms. Rosen thinks that Ann Romney had nannies, she should say so. Mrs. Romney may not have had nannies.

She should be careful to use the word "employed" vs. "working." I'm the mother of five, and I take great offense that I don't "work."

When my first was born, I thought back to a job where I had a 15 minute interval chart I had to fill out. (It was for billing.) I remember thinking, "I would need a 15 second interval chart, and sometimes with multiple slots."

Yes, I have nursed a baby while cooking dinner simultaneously. It can be done, if you really have to.

89 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:33:21am

re: #85 CSUH2001

Contrary to what you may believe about me I have no issue with any woman aborting her child, or using birth control. These issues should not be up for debate.

They are thanks to the GOP! What about that can't you understand?

90 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:33:29am

re: #82 Patricia Kayden

To be fair to Ann Romney, raising 5 boys is work. However, Ms. Rosen's point was that Ann is married to a multi-millionaire and doesn't have to worry about bills, mortgages, etc., like 99% of middle class women.

I don't see how that corresponds with saying Ann Romney “never worked a day in her life.” As a stay-home mother she works her ass off just like my mother did when I was growing up. Money has nothing to do with it.

91 jhncsy  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:33:47am

I'm sure it's difficult raising a child. I'm equally sure that it's easier to raise a child when you have millions of dollars.

92 labman57  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:34:13am

There is certainly nothing wrong with being a "stay at home" mom.
But it is disingenuous to suggest that the viewpoints of an extremely wealthy homemaker represent the needs and concerns of women -- whether married or single, with or without children -- who need to earn a living in the workplace to make ends meet.

Romney to female voters: "The GOP has your back."

Meanwhile, the governor of Wisconsin repeals "equal pay for women" legislation, conservative pundits and politicians claim that men deserve higher pay for equal work because "men need the added income more than do women" or because "men know more stuff than do women", Congressional and state Republican legislators strive to make affordable access to contraception and breast cancer screenings more difficult with their assault on PP and health insurance coverage, and GOP-controlled state legislatures mandate that women seeking an abortion provide social conservative politicians with "a womb with a view". So much for the tea party/conservative movement's mantra: "small, non-intrusive government".

The 2012 GOP campaign slogan: A chicken in every pot and a spy-cam in every uterus.

American women to Republican Party: "WE will decide whether or not our rights are being assaulted by conservative policies, thank you very much."

93 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:34:17am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

I don't see how that corresponds with saying Ann Romney “never worked a day in her life.” As a stay-home mother she works her ass off just like my mother did when I was growing up. Money has nothing to do with it.

That's hilarious.

94 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:34:17am

It's just that sort of a move when you don't win even if you're right.

95 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:34:29am

re: #76 Lidane

And if you're dumb enough to think that reproductive health is only code for abortion, don't be surprised when someone tries to take away birth control, emergency contraception, and access to an OB/GYN for you, especially if you're poor or middle class.

Calling me dumb is not necessary. Here are some code words for abortion: privacy, choice, freedom, and reproductive health.

96 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:34:41am

re: #84 teresa

I support Mrs. Romney's choice to stay home. Although it was a very easy choice, given the wealthy family she married into. There was no economic pressure for her to work to help support her family, but it makes me slightly uncomfortable that Rosen used that particular issue to go after Mitt. But Rosen does not represent the President.

Rosen should have used a better example of Mrs. Romney's privilege, the best example of course is the issue of health insurance and the Romney's ability to afford care that others cannot afford.

Mrs. Romney has MS and has had a bout with breast cancer, in the real world, where the rest of us are, that makes her uninsurable by Republican standards. Republicans believe you should be able to be discriminated against for preexisting conditions. They don't believe in regulation. The Romney's can afford Mrs. Romney's treatments without insurance because they are wealthy beyond boundaries of my imagination. That truly separates them from the rest of us. Whether she stayed home to raise 5 boys really doesn't matter at all.

The issue at hand was not a general one about insurance, but rather the very pointed one of the war being waged on women's rights by the party that Mrs. Romney's hubby just attained the nomination for the presidency from. She's been cited by him as the "go-to" woman on ways to address the very real gap between the GOP and women voters, so the fact that she's wealthy enough to afford to stay-at-home, to care for her children while sick, is the one at issue.

97 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:34:47am

re: #81 Gus

Sorry but this is a clown show.

Ann Romney: ‘I know what it’s like to struggle’

I don’t even consider myself wealthy, which is an interesting thing,”

I'm a bit torn on this. She has had her health problems and other things to deal with in her life. On the other hand, she has also had access to much better resources than most women and it's hard to tell how genuine she's being, especially in light of stuff like the included comment she previously made about not considering herself wealthy, which doesn't exactly come of well to me at all.

98 funky chicken  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:34:54am

re: #22 wrenchwench

What Ann left out is that nothing is more important to a woman's personal economy as the ability to control her reproduction as she wishes.

Mitt needs more perspectives than just Ann's.

Remember that back in the 1990s Ann Romney was a financial supporter of Planned Parenthood. It wasn't until the Rove machinery decided that the real Romneys wouldn't be able to win GOP primaries that Mittbot 2.0, Crusader edition was born.

Hilary Rosen sounds like a turd when she bashes Ann Romney. The Obama campaign was smart to distance themselves from her.

99 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:35:07am

re: #88 Mostly sane, most of the time.

If Ms. Rosen thinks that Ann Romney had nannies, she should say so. Mrs. Romney may not have had nannies.

She should be careful to use the word "employed" vs. "working." I'm the mother of five, and I take great offense that I don't "work."

When my first was born, I thought back to a job where I had a 15 minute interval chart I had to fill out. (It was for billing.) I remember thinking, "I would need a 15 second interval chart, and sometimes with multiple slots."

Yes, I have nursed a baby while cooking dinner simultaneously. It can be done, if you really have to.

A thousand updings!

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:35:19am

re: #82 Patricia Kayden

To be fair to Ann Romney, raising 5 boys is work. However, Ms. Rosen's point was that Ann is married to a multi-millionaire and doesn't have to worry about bills, mortgages, etc., like 99% of middle class women.

The righties are waging a very effective war against women by restricting access to abortion, and now even birth control. The Democrats need to keep up the pressure.

Raising five boys is exhausting. Announcing that you made the choice to do so, and boy, is it hard work! in a Twitter when your husband is running for president is a political move.

It's also a distraction. The Obamas have the right idea. Let's keep moving forward on this.

101 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:35:20am

re: #85 CSUH2001

I want to mention that I took a year long certificate course and t

Please don't call me an idiot, its not necessary. As I mentioned in my first post here I know the ideological bent of this blog has changed. With that being said I hope we can still discuss things decently.

You are mentioning "taking away abortion" from me as if that is a threat. And why the surprise about my silence on abortion. It should not be a political football. Contrary to what you may believe about me I have no issue with any woman aborting her child, or using birth control. These issues should not be up for debate.

It shouldn't be a political football you are correct. Which is why it would make sense not to support the Republicans who are attempting to restrict abortion all over the place, no?

102 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:35:22am

I am sure it was difficult raising five sons but I think she comes across as way out of touch when she says she doesn't even consider herself wealthy. Mrs. Romney, your husband is worth a 1/5 of a billion dollars. That's wealthy. Nothing wrong with it but your family has been fortunate.

103 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:35:58am

Mitt brings his wife's views into question by ducking a question posed him about women and the economy. Mitt's wife's experience becomes an issue because Mitt made it an issue.

Rosen comes along and points this out, and Rosen takes flak for it? It's Mitt who raised the question of Ann's views and experience. Media outlets should be asking what kind of experience Ann has to qualify her as informative on the issues involved.

Mitt seems to think Ann is an expert - or maybe she's just been picked to go and ask/poll those who they meet on the campaign trail and she goes back to Mitt and says that issue X is important or not.

This much is clear, the economy is a big issue for everyone, women included. Poll after poll indicates as much, so it isn't a surprise that Ann has apparently told Mitt that the economy is a big issue for women.

That's no real news or surprise.

But it does make a great diversion from the real problems the GOP is having with connecting with women. Maybe connecting isn't the right word. How about attacking womens' rights to contraceptives, access to abortions, and generally treating women as second class citizens that can't obtain proper medical treatment or access to health care because of the war on PP and birth control (at a time when most everyone regardless of religious views sees and values birth control).

104 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:35:59am

re: #88 Mostly sane, most of the time.

She should be careful to use the word "employed" vs. "working." I'm the mother of five, and I take great offense that I don't "work."

I also think it's important to understand the difference between being employed and "working". It's entirely possible that Rosen has had a privileged life and has never done a day's worth of physical labor herself.

105 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:37:09am

re: #85 CSUH2001

These issues should not be up for debate.

Except that they ARE up for debate and the Republicans are doing their damndest to destroy women's rights in this country, and it's not just about abortion.

The current GOP would outlaw birth control if they could, and they're to the point where they're trying to redefine when pregnancy starts. They're also voting against equal pay and against access to contraception and health care for women. Sorry if I think those issues are important and need to be defended. I'm just a woman, after all.

106 funky chicken  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:37:33am

re: #77 HappyWarrior

Aren't these the same people who attack Mrs. Obama for promoting healthy eating and chuckle when a pig like Limbaugh calls her fat? Physicians heal thyselves.

Yep. But Hilary Rosen was just stupid enough to give them a talking point. It was an unforced error.

107 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:37:46am

re: #89 Interesting Times

They are thanks to the GOP! What about that can't you understand?

I feel very insulted by what you are insinuating and your tone. Of course I understand, I can read perfectly. I believe abortion is a side issue, another thread, and another topic. This topic is the comments about Romney's wife.

109 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:38:06am

Wherere: #95 CSUH2001

Calling me dumb is not necessary. Here are some code words for abortion: privacy, choice, freedom, and reproductive health.

None of those things are synonymous with abortion.

110 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:38:07am

re: #95 CSUH2001

Calling me dumb is not necessary.

When you refuse to admit that women's health issues are a political football for the Republicans, yes it is.

111 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:38:15am

re: #88 Mostly sane, most of the time.

If Ms. Rosen thinks that Ann Romney had nannies, she should say so. Mrs. Romney may not have had nannies.

She should be careful to use the word "employed" vs. "working." I'm the mother of five, and I take great offense that I don't "work."

When my first was born, I thought back to a job where I had a 15 minute interval chart I had to fill out. (It was for billing.) I remember thinking, "I would need a 15 second interval chart, and sometimes with multiple slots."

Yes, I have nursed a baby while cooking dinner simultaneously. It can be done, if you really have to.

If you were rich then all that you do at home for your family wouldn't be considered 'work'.

//

112 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:38:45am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

I also think it's important to understand the difference between being employed and "working". It's entirely possible that Rosen has had a privileged life and has never done a day's worth of physical labor herself.

Um, we don't refer to just physical labor as work, though. Someone who writes for a living still works for a living.

Are you really trying to say that someone who doesn't do physical labor isn't working?

113 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:38:47am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

You know who else had a nanny?
Revealed: Barack Obama's gay transgender prostitute nanny who made him laugh by trying on his mother's lipstick

I'm outraged!

Oh. Come. On. Not even close.

114 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:38:58am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

I don't see how that corresponds with saying Ann Romney “never worked a day in her life.” As a stay-home mother she works her ass off just like my mother did when I was growing up. Money has nothing to do with it.

So then you'll agree that mothers (and fathers) who are on welfare and stay at home taking care of their kids also work their asses off, right? Just checking, since money has nothing to do with it.

115 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:38:59am

re: #97 Simply Sarah

I'm a bit torn on this. She has had her health problems and other things to deal with in her life. On the other hand, she has also had access to much better resources than most women and it's hard to tell how genuine she's being, especially in light of stuff like the included comment she previously made about not considering herself wealthy, which doesn't exactly come of well to me at all.

She's had to deal with a lot. And if she wants to talk about those things, that's cool with me, including the difficulties of raising a big family.

"I don't consider myself wealthy," is obnoxious though, and poor politics, at least toward some of her audience.

116 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:39:41am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

I don't see how that corresponds with saying Ann Romney “never worked a day in her life.” As a stay-home mother she works her ass off just like my mother did when I was growing up. Money has nothing to do with it.

"Money has nothing to do with it?"

You're kidding, right?

117 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:40:07am

LOL, such a silly fallacy.

"A is rich, so she probably had nannies do everything for her" does NOT lead to "anyone with a nanny is rich and doesn't work". Logic 101 fail.

118 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:40:23am

re: #109 Learned Mother of Zion

None of those things are synonymous with abortion.

Exactly. Anyone who thinks they are is either stupid or being deliberately dense.

119 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:40:29am

re: #117 Johnny Derp

fxd "fallacy"

120 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:40:49am

re: #114 CuriousLurker

So then you'll agree that mothers (and fathers) who are on welfare and stay at home taking care of their kids also work their asses off, right? Just checking, since money has nothing to do with it.

Of course. My grandmother raised 5 kids while my grandfather worked as a longshoreman back in the 40s and 50s. I bet she worked twice as hard as he did.

121 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:40:58am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

I don't see how that corresponds with saying Ann Romney “never worked a day in her life.” As a stay-home mother she works her ass off just like my mother did when I was growing up. Money has nothing to do with it.

If there is any area in American life where having more money doesn't make things easier we're not being very good capitalists. (Find a need make a product)

122 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:41:00am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

I also think it's important to understand the difference between being employed and "working". It's entirely possible that Rosen has had a privileged life and has never done a day's worth of physical labor herself.

I remember Grandma (college educated stay-at-home mother, like her mother and her daughter and me), telling us that when her brother, the farmer, came to visit, he didn't understand why you would eat a big meal if you haven't been working. As a life-long manual laborer (with a degree in something related to agriculture), he only ate big if he had been physically working.

I think I just figured out where the obesity crisis is coming from.

123 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:41:03am

re: #110 Lidane

When you refuse to admit that women's health issues are a political football for the Republicans, yes it is.

No actually it isn't. You don't have a discussion, or debate by name calling. Its childish.

124 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:41:23am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

I also think it's important to understand the difference between being employed and "working". It's entirely possible that Rosen has had a privileged life and has never done a day's worth of physical labor herself.

She's raising twins. I imagine that involves physical labor. Actually, I don't have to imagine. I was eight when my twin sisters were born. I pitched in with some of the work myself over the years.

125 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:41:46am

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

She's had to deal with a lot. And if she wants to talk about those things, that's cool with me, including the difficulties of raising a big family.

"I don't consider myself wealthy," is obnoxious though, and poor politics, at least toward some of her audience.

You're right. I should try to separate the wealth statement from other things she says. Or at least not let it totally colour my thoughts.

126 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:42:04am

re: #122 Mostly sane, most of the time.

When I grew up, it was the farm kids who were fat. So I'm not quite sure you've quite solved it there.

The obesity crisis comes from diet.

127 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:42:10am

re: #123 CSUH2001

No actually it isn't. You don't have a discussion, or debate by name calling. Its childish.

Reducto ad badwordium.

Man, these are my very favorite.

128 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:42:37am

re: #116 Charles Johnson

"Money has nothing to do with it?"

You're kidding, right?

On whether she works hard at home or not? No.

129 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:43:13am

re: #126 Obdicut

When I grew up, it was the farm kids who were fat. So I'm not quite sure you've quite solved it there.

The obesity crisis comes from diet.

Uncle Allen is whip-thin, and he's not particularly tall.

Probably because he matches his diet to his physical needs. That was my point. We're still eating like we're out hoeing in the field.

Which reminds me that I need to get out and weed the garden.

130 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:43:32am

re: #123 CSUH2001

Its childish.

So is deliberately refusing to see what's right in front of you.

The Republican party is actively engaged in trying to destroy women's rights in this country. Full stop. It's not my problem if you refuse to admit it, but don't be surprised when the things you take for granted now go away because you refused to grow a spine and pay attention to them.

131 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:43:44am

re: #122 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I remember Grandma (college educated stay-at-home mother, like her mother and her daughter and me), telling us that when her brother, the farmer, came to visit, he didn't understand why you would eat a big meal if you haven't been working. As a life-long manual laborer (with a degree in something related to agriculture), he only ate big if he had been physically working.

I think I just figured out where the obesity crisis is coming from.

Traditional American breakfast is a great example. Eggs, bacon and pancakes makes sense is you're going to spend the rest of the day baling hay. Not so much if you're going to sit in an office chair and drink soda all day.

132 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:43:56am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

You know who else had a nanny?
Revealed: Barack Obama's gay transgender prostitute nanny who made him laugh by trying on his mother's lipstick

I'm outraged!

Dude, that's not cool at all. I mean, if you really had to link to that, couldn't you have linked to a version that was, you know, less depraved and disgusting, if only in the damn headline?

133 carlaschluge  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:43:59am

re: #105 Lidane

The current GOP would outlaw birth control if they could, and they're to the point where they're trying to redefine when pregnancy starts. They're also voting against equal pay and against access to contraception and health care for women.

You're wrong on all counts. There is no GOP movement to outlaw birth control. Where are the facts to back that up? (crickets)

The GOP is not trying to redefine when pregnancy starts. I don't see that anywhere on the GOP's platform. GOP against equal pay? Wrong again. By the way, check out Pres. Obama's White House staff, where women are paid 18% less than men.

The whole so-called "war on women" is ginned up fakery, and Rosen is responsible for it backfiring. Now there is a war on motherhood, and it ain't the Republicans fighting that war. Democrats, say buh-bye to soccer moms.

134 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:44:11am

I never said they were NOT a political football. I said simply that I am not debating them because I think they shouldn't be. Of course they are a political football. There are people who want to overturn Roe V Wade.

So you are saying here on this blog that while discussing abortion you have never head it said that when it comes to the issue of "choice" the GOP is out of touch with women? You have never heard talking heads on TV when discussing abortion, not mention abortion, but simply say "choice" and "privacy.?

135 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:44:13am

re: #123 CSUH2001

No actually it isn't. You don't have a discussion, or debate by name calling. Its childish.

You can have a debate or dicussion that involves name-calling, as long as the name-calling isn't the crux of the argument.

If I say to someone "The multi-tube seed drill was invented in China, you ignorant dick," it doesn't take anything away from the fact that the seed drill was invented in China that I called him a dick.

136 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:44:17am

Ann Romney

Born Ann Lois Davies, she was raised in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, by parents Edward R. Davies and Lois Davies. Her father, originally from Caerau near Bridgend, Wales, was a self-made businessman who became president of Jered Industries, a maker of heavy machinery for marine use; he also was mayor of Bloomfield Hills. Raised in the Welsh Congregationalists, he had become strongly opposed to all organized religion, although on her request the family very occasionally attended church, and she nominally identified as an Episcopalian.

Ann Davies knew of Mitt Romney since elementary school. She went to the private Kingswood School in Bloomfield Hills, which was the sister school to the all-boys Cranbrook School that he attended. The two were re-introduced and began dating in March ; they informally agreed to marriage after his senior prom in June .

While he was attending Stanford University for a year and then was away starting two-and-a-half years of Mormon missionary duty in France, she decided on her own to convert to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints during . In doing so she accepted the guidance of Mitt's father George Romney, the Governor of Michigan. (Within a year her two brothers followed her in converting.) She graduated from high school in and began attending Brigham Young University (BYU). She also spent a semester at the University of Grenoble in France during her freshman year. The Mormon missionary rules only allowed her two brief visits with Mitt and very rare telephone calls with him. While at BYU she dated future business academic Kim S. Cameron. She sent Mitt a "Dear John letter", while Mitt sent letters back imploring her to wait for him.

I'm sure it was hard for Mitt to have gone to France to be a "missionary" while his peers were being drafted for the Vietnam War.

137 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:44:41am

DailyMail FTW!

138 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:44:50am

re: #133 carlaschluge

You're wrong on all counts.

All the legislation they've been pushing across the country says otherwise. Try again.

139 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:44:57am

re: #124 wrenchwench

She's raising twins. I imagine that involves physical labor. Actually, I don't have to imagine. I was eight when my twin sisters were born. I pitched in with some of the work myself over the years.

I have twin daughters. We didn't get an entire nights sleep for a whole year after they were born.

140 steve_davis  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:45:00am

re: #14 Simply Sarah

I thought you were Jesus, not Noah Webster. Also: Judgement, metre, colour.

And then there's the occult dabblings of the third reich, which have to be authentic, because they were shot using color film!

141 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:45:24am

re: #120 NJDhockeyfan

Of course. My grandmother raised 5 kids while my grandfather worked as a longshoreman back in the 40s and 50s. I bet she worked twice as hard as he did.

Great! That's good to know. I'll favorite that for next time some right winger claims that welfare moms are lazy, good-for-nothing leeches on society, just to show them that all conservatives don't feel that way.

142 Mocking Jay  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:45:34am

Rosengate is not a hill to die on. Move along. These aren't the issues you're looking for.

143 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:45:34am

re: #132 Simply Sarah

Dude, that's not cool at all. I mean, if you really had to link to that, couldn't you have linked to a version that was, you know, less depraved and disgusting, if only in the damn headline?

Outrage!

144 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:45:46am

re: #95 CSUH2001

Calling me dumb is not necessary. Here are some code words for abortion: privacy, choice, freedom, and reproductive health.

Reproductive health is not a code word for anything. It is what it is. Women of reproductive age have legitimate health issues involving same.

Choice mean choice...the ability and opportunity to choose

Privacy? Freedom? are you kidding me?

145 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:45:48am

re: #116 Charles Johnson

"Money has nothing to do with it?"

You're kidding, right?

Money doesn't matter when it doesn't matter. Or something. Apparently now you can raise a family with no money according to this logic. Money doesn't even get your kids the health care and education they need. Or something.

146 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:45:51am

re: #133 carlaschluge

The GOP is not trying to redefine when pregnancy starts. I don't see that anywhere on the GOP's platform. GOP against equal pay? Wrong again. By the way, check out Pres. Obama's White House staff, where women are paid 18% less than men.

Here's the link again. I expect you to ignore it, as you did before.

147 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:46:04am

re: #129 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I don't think we eat like we're out hoeing in the garden, though. And the obesity crisis happened in the latter part of the 20th century, well after the most people weren't hoeing in the garden. So that explanation would be totally insufficient.

Our diet changed. That's what caused the obesity crisis.

148 recusancy  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:46:11am

re: #122 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I remember Grandma (college educated stay-at-home mother, like her mother and her daughter and me), telling us that when her brother, the farmer, came to visit, he didn't understand why you would eat a big meal if you haven't been working. As a life-long manual laborer (with a degree in something related to agriculture), he only ate big if he had been physically working.

I think I just figured out where the obesity crisis is coming from.

We aren't fat because we don't do as much physical labor. [Link: www.amazon.com...]

149 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:46:13am

re: #102 HappyWarrior

I am sure it was difficult raising five sons but I think she comes across as way out of touch when she says she doesn't even consider herself wealthy. Mrs. Romney, your husband is worth a 1/5 of a billion dollars. That's wealthy. Nothing wrong with it but your family has been fortunate.

And that's what you SAY. "I've been very fortunate. Blah, blah, America, opportunity, motherhood, apple pie, flag." (Hug small child in crowd.)

Then you find a way to talk about your personal health struggles, and how Mitt and the boys have been such helps to you.

Even I know this, and I've never run for office, nor made more than forty-two thousand dollars a year.

150 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:46:26am

re: #134 CSUH2001

I never said they were NOT a political football. I said simply that I am not debating them because I think they shouldn't be.

Too bad for you the Republicans disagree.

They'd destroy women's rights if they could and send us all back into the kitchen if they had their way. Some of us see that as a problem and are determined to fight back.

151 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:46:27am

re: #141 CuriousLurker

Great! That's good to know. I'll favorite that for next time some right winger claims that welfare moms are lazy, good-for-nothing leeches on society, just to show them that all conservatives don't feel that way.

Go ahead, knock yourself out.

152 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:46:34am

re: #134 CSUH2001

So you are saying here on this blog that while discussing abortion you have never head it said that when it comes to the issue of "choice" the GOP is out of touch with women?

I don't think the GOP is "out of touch" with women's rights. I know for a fact that the GOP is openly hostile to women's rights.

153 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:47:24am

re: #137 Johnny Derp

DailyMail FTW!

You're still missing the point: Criticizing candidates families and lifestyle choices is classless and stupid. Leave it to the wingnuts.

154 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:47:52am

re: #133 carlaschluge

You're wrong on all counts. There is no GOP movement to outlaw birth control. Where are the facts to back that up? (crickets)

The GOP is not trying to redefine when pregnancy starts. I don't see that anywhere on the GOP's platform. GOP against equal pay? Wrong again. By the way, check out Pres. Obama's White House staff, where women are paid 18% less than men.

The whole so-called "war on women" is ginned up fakery, and Rosen is responsible for it backfiring. Now there is a war on motherhood, and it ain't the Republicans fighting that war. Democrats, say buh-bye to soccer moms.

If the GOP isn't against Equal Pay why did so many of them vote against the Lilly Ledbetter fair pay act?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

155 carlaschluge  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:47:54am

re: #146 erik_t

Daily KOS . . . really? Citing to another . . . Daily KOS article?

156 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:48:19am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

You're still missing the point: Criticizing candidates families and lifestyle choices is classless and stupid. Leave it to the wingnuts.

Fail! Seriously? You're comparing Ms. Rosen's comments to that garbage about Obama? Seriously? LOL

157 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:48:20am

re: #108 Killgore Trout

You know who else had a nanny?
Revealed: Barack Obama's gay transgender prostitute nanny who made him laugh by trying on his mother's lipstick

I'm outraged!

If the Romneys have ever hired a gay transgendered prostitute nanny, I might consider changing my vote.

///

158 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:49:10am

re: #147 Obdicut

I don't think we eat like we're out hoeing in the garden, though. And the obesity crisis happened in the latter part of the 20th century, well after the most people weren't hoeing in the garden. So that explanation would be totally insufficient.

Our diet changed. That's what caused the obesity crisis.

Four words: High Fructose Corn Syrup.

(Words which came up frequently in our household this week as we enjoyed Good Old Original Coca Cola.)

159 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:49:21am

Killgore's MBF of the day:

Revealed: Barack Obama's gay transgender prostitute nanny who made him laugh by trying on his mother's lipstick = Hilary Rosen Criticizes Ann Romney, Right Wing Goes Nuts

160 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:49:48am

re: #143 Killgore Trout

Outrage!

Goddamn straight I'm fucking outraged by an outrageous headline that debases and makes light of the suffering, life, and situation of a woman, one that just happens to be poor and trans, in an attempt to score cheap points against the President. I'm outraged and I'm damn well going to show it.

161 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:49:57am

re: #133 carlaschluge

I don't see that anywhere on the GOP's platform.

So if you can't read it in the national platform, it isn't happening?

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:50:01am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

You're still missing the point: Criticizing candidates families and lifestyle choices is classless and stupid. Leave it to the wingnuts.

I actually agree, with the exception of situation when the candidate themselves bring them into some controversy. But dude, you could make your point better.

163 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:50:18am

re: #134 CSUH2001

I never said they were NOT a political football. I said simply that I am not debating them because I think they shouldn't be. Of course they are a political football. There are people who want to overturn Roe V Wade.

So you are saying here on this blog that while discussing abortion you have never head it said that when it comes to the issue of "choice" the GOP is out of touch with women? You have never heard talking heads on TV when discussing abortion, not mention abortion, but simply say "choice" and "privacy.?

If you refuse to debate the issue, you've already lost them and just don't know it yet.

Either you care about abortion rights enough to argue them or you don't, which is it?

164 carlaschluge  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:51:06am

re: #154 jamesfirecat

Because it's a stupid pushed by trial lawyers to line their pockets.

165 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:51:12am

re: #161 wrenchwench

So if you can't read it in the national platform, it isn't happening?

Just ignore all the legislation being pushed by Republicans in various states around the country. If it's not in the national platform it doesn't exist.

WTF. How stupid can someone be if they think that's an answer?

166 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:51:28am

re: #149 SanFranciscoZionist

And that's what you SAY. "I've been very fortunate. Blah, blah, America, opportunity, motherhood, apple pie, flag." (Hug small child in crowd.)

Then you find a way to talk about your personal health struggles, and how Mitt and the boys have been such helps to you.

Even I know this, and I've never run for office, nor made more than forty-two thousand dollars a year.

Precisely.

167 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:51:35am

re: #145 Gus

Money doesn't matter when it doesn't matter. Or something. Apparently now you can raise a family with no money according to this logic. Money doesn't even get your kids the health care and education they need. Or something.

A Day In the Life Of... a Mother of Two

1:27 a.m.: The baby's up. It's six minutes later than last night, but four minutes earlier than the night before. I'm not sure what time my husband gave Nate a bottle, since I passed out at 9:30 p.m., but I suspect it was around 10 p.m. Three and a half hours between night feedings for a 13-pound baby seems a bit short, but I'll take what I can get. I nurse him with one boob, change his diaper, nurse him with my other boob, and put him back in the swing.

I realize that I really need to begin transitioning him to sleep in a crib, but I'm too scared to try. I worry about that for a few more minutes.

2:03 a.m.: Should I read to stave off racing thoughts that could lead to insomnia? I decide to finish the chapter, but fall asleep after reading just one page.

2:38 a.m.: "Where's my Binky?" Toby's wailing wakes me up instantly. The new deal is that Mama is not going into Toby's room
anymore until "the clock says 6." Only Dada is allowed to go in -- hopefully being a disappointing enough presence to discourage these new twice-a-night wakings since baby Nate came home from the hospital two months ago. I remind my husband of this policy with a polite but firm shove. He grunts and goes into Toby's room. I listen to the negotiations in the other room and decide from the tones of voice that there is a 6 percent chance Toby will go back to sleep without insisting on seeing me. I am relieved when my husband returns to bed without a word and a beautiful silence is all that comes out of Toby's room.

4:12 a.m.: Nate's up again. Is it worth giving him a Binky to see if he'll go back to sleep without a feeding? I debate the pros and cons and decide to feed him anyway. I nudge my husband to warn him that the baby is almost done with the second boob. He grunts and gets up to put Nate back down. I drift into blissful sleep knowing my husband is officially responsible for this shift.

6:47 a.m.: Toby is awake and screaming for me. I help him take off his Pull-Ups, use the bathroom, and put on underwear. I snuggle back into bed with Toby but realize that Nate is now awake. Again. I take him out of the swing and bring him back into the bed.

8:21 a.m.: Breakfast. Toby wants four kinds of cereal mixed together. I silently curse myself for being the sort of person who has (literally) nine kinds of cereal on top of the fridge. I wish I weren't such an inspiration to my son in the cereal-obsession department.

10:12 a.m.: I nurse Nate while my husband gets Toby ready to go with me to the daycare center at my gym. I calculate how long I'll have there so I can get back in time to nurse, shower, and eat before my husband leaves for work at 1 p.m. The numbers are not adding up.

10:57 a.m.: Toby has a fit at gym daycare when I drop him off because he doesn't want to stay.

11:07 a.m.: Treadmill. People magazine. Total bliss.

11:48 a.m.: Toby has a fit at gym daycare because he doesn't want to leave.

12:14 p.m.: I arrive home in a frenzy and notice that my husband is giving Nate the precious bottle of breast milk I pumped last night. I say in a fake calm voice, "Why did you give him the bottle? I was going to nurse him now." I feel like I want to murder him, then remind myself that it is not an option because I really need his help. He says he can stay an extra hour since he doesn't have to
see any clients until 2 p.m. I decide that he's a prince.

1:12 p.m.: My husband leaves for work. I hug him extra long and say, "Please don't leave me." He leaves anyway.

...

168 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:52:34am

re: #167 NJDhockeyfan

What does that have to do with anything?

169 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:52:44am

re: #155 carlaschluge

Daily KOS . . . really? Citing to another . . . Daily KOS article?

Well, you didn't ignore it, so I guess that's progress. How about the State of Wisconsin?

Of course Wisconsin is turning bluer than a grumpy Freeper's face, so that source is probably tainted as well.

170 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:52:47am

re: #164 carlaschluge

Because it's a stupid pushed by trial lawyers to line their pockets.

What things do you think are important to women then?

Is fair pay not important to them?

How should they go about achieving fair pay if not through laws back up by the threat of legal action?

171 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:52:56am
...

1:53 p.m.: Nate has been napping for more than an hour. I am completely amazed, yet wonder why I didn't use this as "quiet time" for Toby so I could have napped, too. I feel a disproportionate amount of remorse.

2:25 p.m.: "Quiet time" for Toby, and we're all piled in bed. Nate is now wide awake and extra squirmy. I find myself falling asleep for 30-second intervals while both boys stare at me. I consider how much money I would be willing to pay someone at this moment to whisk the boys away right now so I could sleep for just ten minutes. I decide $1,000 is not unreasonable.

4:02 p.m.: Snack time. Banana for Toby. Big bowl of cereal for me. Boobs for Nate.

4:38 p.m.: The children's room at the library is amazingly peaceful. Toby is having the time of his life playing with old and broken toys, and Nate is resting quietly in my lap without squirming. I take a deep breath and think how lovely my boys are.

5:39 p.m.: Back from the library, I place Toby in front of the TV with as little guilt as possible so I can put Nate to bed with my patented "boob, bath, boob" routine: I nurse Nate with one boob, give him a quick bath, and then nurse him with the second boob.

6:24 p.m.: I'm enjoying the relative peace of dinner with Toby and no baby to jiggle. I laugh extra hard at his jokes, hoping to butter him up for our bedtime routine.

7:49 p.m.: Much screaming ensues when Toby loses special second-book privileges, which he'd earned by not insisting I come into his room last night at his 2:38 a.m. waking. Tragically, the bonus is lost when he persists in counting how many old toothbrushes are in the cup in the bathroom despite my pointing out that it is time to get into pj's and that it is too late to count toothbrushes tonight. My previous buttering-up seems to have had little impact.

8:26 p.m.: I'm in bed drinking hot tea and eating a Double Chocolate Milano cookie. I've gotten both boys off to bed all by myself and feel as if I've just climbed Mount Everest and deserve praise and admiration from others. I remember particularly cute things each of my boys did that day -- extra-good smiles from Nate and extra-good Muppets imitations from Toby. Having children may actually have been a pretty good plan.

9:03 p.m.: I jerk awake as I hear my husband coming upstairs. I realize I still have to pump or my boobs will wake me up all on their own in a few hours. I can't think of anything I'd like to do less, but I pump anyway.

10:44 p.m.: I wake up briefly to noises of my husband giving Nate a late-night bottle. I am enormously happy that I am not involved in any way. I'm even happier that because I did pump, I can now turn over and snuggle onto my stomach to sleep. I decide that stomach sleeping is one of the greatest pleasures in life. I wonder for a moment what the night ahead will be like. I wonder if I will ever be able to fall asleep without worrying about when I will have to wake up next. I fall asleep seven seconds later.

But if you're rich, stacks of $100 bills will do all of this for you.

172 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:53:00am

re: #152 Charles Johnson

I don't think the GOP is "out of touch" with women's rights. I know for a fact that the GOP is openly hostile to women's rights.

Charles I don't understand how we are misunderstanding each other. In watching this issue of abortion debated on TV I have seen people use words like "choice" and "privacy" as if they were afraid to mention the word abortion. That was my only point.

173 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:53:00am

re: #133 carlaschluge

The GOP is not trying to redefine when pregnancy starts. I don't see that anywhere on the GOP's platform.

Did you know this is a GOP platform plank?

We must keep our pledge to the first guarantee of the Declaration of Independence. That is why we say the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make it clear that the 14th Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect traditional family values and the sanctity of innocent human life.

That is an absolute, rock-solid position against abortion.

Do you agree?

174 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:53:09am

re: #133 carlaschluge

You're wrong on all counts. There is no GOP movement to outlaw birth control. Where are the facts to back that up? (crickets)

Does it have to be said out loud to be a movement?

The GOP is not trying to redefine when pregnancy starts. I don't see that anywhere on the GOP's platform.

No, but I do see it out in Arizona, which is in the process of passing law that says that pregnancies will be backtracked to the woman's last period for the purpose of denying her an abortion.

GOP against equal pay? Wrong again. By the way, check out Pres. Obama's White House staff, where women are paid 18% less than men.

There have been two bills put before Congress since Obama took office to address equal pay for women. Both failed, with two of the three women that the Romney campaign has put up as his voices on equal pay having voted against it.

The whole so-called "war on women" is ginned up fakery, and Rosen is responsible for it backfiring. Now there is a war on motherhood, and it ain't the Republicans fighting that war. Democrats, say buh-bye to soccer moms.

"War on motherhood"? Seriously?

175 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:54:34am

re: #171 NJDhockeyfan

But if you're rich, stacks of $100 bills will do all of this for you.

Black-belt copypasta. Well done.

176 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:54:46am

By tomorrow, the wingnuts will have totally forgotten Hilary Rosen and moved on to the next fake outrage.

177 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:54:56am

re: #171 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, if you're rich, you have a lot more options for parenting that make life easier. My mom has talked about how much easier it was raising my brothers and I once my dad got his tenured professorship.

It's a good point: we often overlook the ways that income helps parenting, in everything from being able to hire a tutor, a nanny, to having a regular, dependable car, to being able to schedule doctors visits.

Things like participation in sports and other opportunities often involve money too.

178 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:55:11am

re: #171 NJDhockeyfan

But if you're rich, stacks of $100 bills will do all of this for you.

Actually, other than nursing...yes, a nanny could handle a lot of it.

179 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:55:12am

re: #157 SanFranciscoZionist

If the Romneys have ever hired a gay transgendered prostitute nanny, I might consider changing my vote.

///

lol

180 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:55:13am

re: #176 Charles Johnson

By this evening the wingnuts will have totally forgotten Hilary Rosen and moved on to the next fake outrage.

Fixed with respect.

181 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:55:44am

The GOP is engaging in a war on access to contraception, including and particularly targeting PP. Consider the following:

In 2006, subsidized family planning services were provided at 8,199 family planning centers—2,741 (33%) were health department clinics, 2,215 (27%) were community or migrant health centers, 1,623 (20%) were other clinics, 868 (11%) were Planned Parenthood centers and 752 (9%) were hospital clinics.[9]
• More than one-third (36%) of women who obtained contraceptive care from family planning centers in 2006 received services from Planned Parenthood sites, 29% from health department clinics, 9% from hospital outpatient facilities and 26% from community or migrant health centers or other, independent clinics.[9]

Go after PP, and you're affecting 11% of the population seeking family planning services, but 36% of the population seeking contraceptive care.

That's not an insignificant percentage. And PP offers a wide range of health services besides family planning, birth control, or abortion services, including health screenings for various cancers and ailments.

That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface on the wide range of legislation enacted or pending that would severely restrict birth control access/use and/or abortion access up to and including the use of personhood amendments to circumvent Roe.

182 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:56:12am

re: #178 blueraven

Actually, other than nursing...yes, a nanny could handle a lot of it.

Rich women can afford extra help for that too!

183 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:56:19am

re: #172 CSUH2001

Charles I don't understand how we are misunderstanding each other. In watching this issue of abortion debated on TV I have seen people use words like "choice" and "privacy" as if they were afraid to mention the word abortion. That was my only point.

That's because "choice" doesn't equal abortion. When I was younger, I chose to use birth control pills because I wasn't in a position to raise a child. When I was in a position to do so, I chose to stop taking birth control pills. I chose to get pregnant. I chose to have certain tests performed and chose not to have others performed. Abortion never entered into my choice.

184 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:56:49am

re: #156 Gus

Fail! Seriously? You're comparing Ms. Rosen's comments to that garbage about Obama? Seriously? LOL

Yes.

185 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:57:20am

re: #181 lawhawk

The GOP is engaging in a war on access to contraception, including and particularly targeting PP. Consider the following:

Go after PP, and you're affecting 11% of the population seeking family planning services, but 36% of the population seeking contraceptive care.

That's not an insignificant percentage. And PP offers a wide range of health services besides family planning, birth control, or abortion services, including health screenings for various cancers and ailments.

That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface on the wide range of legislation enacted or pending that would severely restrict birth control access/use and/or abortion access up to and including the use of personhood amendments to circumvent Roe.

And Ann Romney's hubby thinks that stopping at saying he wants to strip PP of federal funds means he's not wanting to close it down.

186 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:57:27am

re: #177 Obdicut

Yes, if you're rich, you have a lot more options for parenting that make life easier. My mom has talked about how much easier it was raising my brothers and I once my dad got his tenured professorship.

It's a good point: we often overlook the ways that income helps parenting, in everything from being able to hire a tutor, a nanny, to having a regular, dependable car, to being able to schedule doctors visits.

Things like participation in sports and other opportunities often involve money too.

Exactly. There's no shame in admitting that wealth makes aspects of raising children easier. It's just reality. My Dad's brothers and sisters were able to attend college out of state since my grandfather had a high paying job. My mom and her brother meanwhile had to stay in state and take out student loans when they went to school. It's just a simple fact. I am not suggesting that Ann Romney is a bad mother here but it's simple reality that wealth helps. I mean why else would we want to be wealthy in the first place?

187 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:57:44am

re: #177 Obdicut

re: #178 blueraven

It's a helluva lot of work for any mother. They rarely get weekends off, vacation time, and sick days. Remember that.

188 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:57:44am

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Yes.

Not even close. But I am impressed that you would equate a real issue with a completely fabricated bullshit story at the Daily Mail. That's very brave of you.

189 carlaschluge  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:57:48am

re: #173 Obdicut

Agreed. And touche.

190 Mattand  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:57:48am

re: #172 CSUH2001

Charles I don't understand how we are misunderstanding each other. In watching this issue of abortion debated on TV I have seen people use words like "choice" and "privacy" as if they were afraid to mention the word abortion. That was my only point.

What's your hang up with the semantics on all of this? I'm getting the impression you're big time anti-abortion and trying to somehow trap people by getting them to use the word "abortion", as if that somehow proves something.

191 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:58:51am

re: #187 NJDhockeyfan

It's a helluva lot of work for any mother. They rarely get weekends off, vacation time, and sick days. Remember that.

Will you remember that having a higher income makes it a lot easier on parents, and spare some thoughts for poor women dealing with motherhood without the financial resources available to the wealthy?

192 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:59:05am

re: #175 erik_t

Black-belt copypasta. Well done.

As a father I couldn't come close to writing something like that.

193 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:59:06am

re: #187 NJDhockeyfan

re: #178 blueraven

It's a helluva lot of work for any mother. They rarely get weekends off, vacation time, and sick days. Remember that.

I don't recall anyone saying that being a mother isn't hard work. Heck, even Rosen didn't say that.

194 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:59:14am

re: #184 Killgore Trout

Yes.

The Romney campaign specifically inserted Ann into the dialog by invoking her, in the candidate's own spoken words, in a discussion about working women.

I don't recall the Obama campaign ever putting Michelle on the trail to talk about watermelon subsidies.

195 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:59:36am

re: #191 Obdicut

Will you remember that having a higher income makes it a lot easier on parents, and spare some thoughts for poor women dealing with motherhood without the financial resources available to the wealthy?

It makes it easier but it's still hard work.

196 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 10:59:45am

re: #189 carlaschluge

Agreed. And touche.

Okay. So you can stop claiming that the GOP isn't waging a war on reproductive rights, because they absolutely and clearly are.

Do you agree or disagree with the GOP on criminalizing all abortion?

197 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:00:01am

Yes. Because sick days for rich people is the same as sick days for poor people.

//

198 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:00:22am

re: #178 blueraven

Actually, other than nursing...yes, a nanny could handle a lot of it.

If she had a nanny.

If not, the poop's the same. I suppose you could have a wipes warmer so you don't have to put an ice cold wipe on a baby bum at 3 am. Seriously. Someone gave me one for a baby shower. I never used it, regarding it along the same lines that I would a nose-hair trimmer, but I suppose if you lived in Alaska, it might be a necessity.

Did you know that blueberries can turn the poop forest green? Did you know that corn comes out undigested? Did you know that raisins get reconstituted rather than digested?

Do you know how many diapers you will go through with one child? Lots, and lots, and lots.

199 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:00:24am

I haven't seen so many MBFs in months.

200 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:00:36am

re: #195 NJDhockeyfan

It makes it easier but it's still hard work.

I think we need an honest to goodness million/billionare to get on here and post.

Only they could let us know how truly "hard" child raising is with that level of money...

201 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:01:12am

And now, the inevitable politically driven apology:

(CNN) – Hilary Rosen offered an apology Thursday after her comments about Ann Romney sparked an uproar and a debate over women and the economy.

"I apologize to Ann Romney and anyone else who was offended," Rosen, a top Democratic strategist and CNN contributor, said in a statement. "Let's declare peace in this phony war and go back to focus on the substance."

202 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:01:13am

re: #193 Sionainn

I don't recall anyone saying that being a mother isn't hard work. Heck, even Rosen didn't say that.

Hard work, how about no work?

Ann Romney has "never worked a day in her life."

203 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:01:31am

re: #171 NJDhockeyfan

But if you're rich, stacks of $100 bills will do all of this for you.

Nope, but as someone who was a single mom for many years and struggled mightily to get by, I can assure you that stacks of $100 bills would have made MANY things infinitely easier and would have removed whole host of stresses.

204 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:01:46am

Remember. These are the same folks that would tell you that Americans all have the same access to the same quality of health care. So a rich guy would get the same treatment as a poor man.

205 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:02:17am

re: #201 Charles Johnson

And now, the inevitable politically driven apology:

More than we can ever say for Dana Loesch or most of the right wing pundits.

206 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:02:48am

re: #183 Sionainn

That's because "choice" doesn't equal abortion. When I was younger, I chose to use birth control pills because I wasn't in a position to raise a child. When I was in a position to do so, I chose to stop taking birth control pills. I chose to get pregnant. I chose to have certain tests performed and chose not to have others performed. Abortion never entered into my choice.

Exactly.

In my case, birth control is mandatory whether I like it or not. I've got PCOS. Without birth control, my periods are completely out of control and my body completely betrays me. It's as much a part of my daily medication as the pills I take to regulate everything else.

Abortion is the LAST thing on my mind when it comes to access to contraception and to reproductive health. Without access to contraception and to an OB/GYN or to reliable medical care, I couldn't manage my symptoms and I'd be leaving myself open to serious consequences later.

Thing is, the Republicans would do everything possible to destroy my medical care because of their pandering to the religious fanatics and bigots. For me, that's a problem.

207 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:02:53am

re: #195 NJDhockeyfan

It makes it easier but it's still hard work.

I'm glad you acknowledge that it makes it easier. Then there's also the issue of women who have to work while also taking care of their children. Some women have to do that-- especially many of the single mothers in this country, who have to hold down full-time jobs while also taking care of their kids, often relying on family and friends for childcare.

Living on the edge like that is really no fun, and it's really upsetting the way that Romney and the GOP's proposed budget cuts would make life much, much harder on those working mothers.

208 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:02:57am

re: #205 Gus

More than we can ever say for Dana Loesch or most of the right wing pundits.

Yep.

209 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:03:09am

re: #198 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Did you know that blueberries can turn the poop forest green? Did you know that corn comes out undigested? Did you know that raisins get reconstituted rather than digested?

Mandarin oranges.

210 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:03:23am

re: #187 NJDhockeyfan

re: #178 blueraven

It's a helluva lot of work for any mother. They rarely get weekends off, vacation time, and sick days. Remember that.

I remember one day that I just lay around. That's all I could do. I shut the gate to the stairs, shut the doors, and just lay there. The 3 year old stacked toys on me. The one year old crawled all over me and stuck his fingers up my nose.

The happiest day of my life was when the kids were old enough that I could actually go to sleep when I was sick. They have to be old enough to take care of themselves, be able to not wreck the house or themselves, and not do dumb things, like play "let's wrap this around my neck."

211 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:03:28am

re: #201 Charles Johnson

And now, the inevitable politically driven apology:

Major bad press will do that to a person.

212 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:04:04am

re: #207 Obdicut

I'm glad you acknowledge that it makes it easier. Then there's also the issue of women who have to work while also taking care of their children. Some women have to do that-- especially many of the single mothers in this country, who have to hold down full-time jobs while also taking care of their kids, often relying on family and friends for childcare.

Living on the edge like that is really no fun, and it's really upsetting the way that Romney and the GOP's proposed budget cuts would make life much, much harder on those working mothers.

Yes, but no work? No even close.

213 sagehen  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:04:12am

re: #147 Obdicut

I don't think we eat like we're out hoeing in the garden, though. And the obesity crisis happened in the latter part of the 20th century, well after the most people weren't hoeing in the garden. So that explanation would be totally insufficient.

Our diet changed. That's what caused the obesity crisis.

I blame it all (okay, not all. Maybe just 2/3) on high-fructose corn syrup.

The rest on Super-Sizing everything.

214 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:04:13am

re: #207 Obdicut

I'm glad you acknowledge that it makes it easier. Then there's also the issue of women who have to work while also taking care of their children. Some women have to do that-- especially many of the single mothers in this country, who have to hold down full-time jobs while also taking care of their kids, often relying on family and friends for childcare.

Living on the edge like that is really no fun, and it's really upsetting the way that Romney and the GOP's proposed budget cuts would make life much, much harder on those working mothers.

Nailed it and said it better than I could.

215 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:04:39am

re: #194 erik_t

The Romney campaign specifically inserted Ann into the dialog by invoking her, in the candidate's own spoken words, in a discussion about working women.

I don't recall the Obama campaign ever putting Michelle on the trail to talk about watermelon subsidies.

Exactly. I actually understand why Democrats are apologizing for this - they hold themselves to a higher standard than Republicans do.

The right has been insanely attacking Michelle Obama for years, but of course when someone makes any comment at all about Mitt Romney's wife, even when Romney himself brings her into the discussion, they scream and wail and clutch their pearls like it's something they've never seen before.

216 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:04:43am

re: #202 NJDhockeyfan

Hard work, how about no work?

Ann Romney has "never worked a day in her life."

This semantic nonsense is beneath you. The Romney campaign was quite clearly discussing employed women, which is a very common and well-understood meaning of the word 'working'.

217 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:04:56am

re: #163 jamesfirecat

If you refuse to debate the issue, you've already lost them and just don't know it yet.

Either you care about abortion rights enough to argue them or you don't, which is it?

I will be happy to answer your question. I never stated I CARE about abortion rights. What happened was in discussing the comments made about Mrs. Romney abortion was brought up and I politely declined not to go there. I said I know many women who have made that choice and I have no interest in doing anything to stop them. I have never protested outside a clinic, I don't support bombing anybody, killing anybody, or anything of that nature. As a woman I couldn't do it, but it is not up for me to decide. And this is how we return to the issue, choice. We as women should have the freedom to live the life we choose. If we want to be childfree we should be respected and if we choose to stay at home and have children in spite of the financial burden we should be respected. I know for a fact there is a political movement in this country that wants to overturn Roe V. Wade. These people also want to get rid of the whole of the federal government. Its not happening.

218 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:05:18am

re: #201 Charles Johnson

And now, the inevitable politically driven apology:

I'm glad she apologized ..... she SHOULD apologize. Whatever her motivations, it was the correct thing to do.

219 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:06:15am

re: #212 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, but no work? No even close.

I'm glad you agree that the GOP's attempts to take away support from working mothers is a bad thing. Do you think that that is more or less important than what Rosen said, and has apologized for?

220 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:06:48am

re: #217 CSUH2001

I will be happy to answer your question. I never stated I CARE about abortion rights. What happened was in discussing the comments made about Mrs. Romney abortion was brought up and I politely declined not to go there. I said I know many women who have made that choice and I have no interest in doing anything to stop them. I have never protested outside a clinic, I don't support bombing anybody, killing anybody, or anything of that nature. As a woman I couldn't do it, but it is not up for me to decide. And this is how we return to the issue, choice. We as women should have the freedom to live the life we choose. If we want to be childfree we should be respected and if we choose to stay at home and have children in spite of the financial burden we should be respected. I know for a fact there is a political movement in this country that wants to overturn Roe V. Wade. These people also want to get rid of the whole of the federal government. Its not happening.

It's in the process of happening and will happen if women continue to bury their heads in the sand and act as though Roe v Wade is etched in stone.

221 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:07:04am

The war on women continues...
Kate Winslet's Titanic Breasts Censored in China

It turns out Winslet's bare chest itself isn't so much the problem, but rather, the fact that it is being presented in 3-D.

"Considering the vivid 3D effects, we fear that viewers may reach out their hands for a touch and thus interrupt other people's viewing," read a statement from China's State Administration of Radio, Film and Television. "We've decided to cut off the nudity scenes."

222 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:07:26am

re: #216 erik_t

I don't think that Rosen's choice of words was in any way good or wise, and I don't think falling for the 'trap' of talking about Mrs. Romney was smart, but in context, yes, she clearly was talking about women who also are employed in a you-get-paid-for-it job.

223 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:07:30am
224 recusancy  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:07:30am

re: #217 CSUH2001

I will be happy to answer your question. I never stated I CARE about abortion rights. What happened was in discussing the comments made about Mrs. Romney abortion was brought up and I politely declined not to go there. I said I know many women who have made that choice and I have no interest in doing anything to stop them. I have never protested outside a clinic, I don't support bombing anybody, killing anybody, or anything of that nature. As a woman I couldn't do it, but it is not up for me to decide. And this is how we return to the issue, choice. We as women should have the freedom to live the life we choose. If we want to be childfree we should be respected and if we choose to stay at home and have children in spite of the financial burden we should be respected. I know for a fact there is a political movement in this country that wants to overturn Roe V. Wade. These people also want to get rid of the whole of the federal government. Its not happening.

Yes. And that movement is called the Republican Party.

225 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:07:36am

re: #221 Killgore Trout

The war on women continues...
Kate Winslet's Titanic Breasts Censored in China

The "war on women" is funny. Got it. Score one for the "alpha males."

226 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:07:56am

re: #217 CSUH2001

I will be happy to answer your question. I never stated I CARE about abortion rights. What happened was in discussing the comments made about Mrs. Romney abortion was brought up and I politely declined not to go there. I said I know many women who have made that choice and I have no interest in doing anything to stop them. I have never protested outside a clinic, I don't support bombing anybody, killing anybody, or anything of that nature. As a woman I couldn't do it, but it is not up for me to decide. And this is how we return to the issue, choice. We as women should have the freedom to live the life we choose. If we want to be childfree we should be respected and if we choose to stay at home and have children in spite of the financial burden we should be respected. I know for a fact there is a political movement in this country that wants to overturn Roe V. Wade. These people also want to get rid of the whole of the federal government. Its not happening.

Fair enough just to wrap this all up nice and cleanly so that everyone can put the issue behind us, would you support a politician who say they wants to overturn /alter Roe V. Wade?

227 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:08:01am

Hilary Rosen had no reason to apologize. She was right.

228 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:08:11am

re: #201 Charles Johnson

And now, the inevitable politically driven apology:

I have to admit, I think apologizing was the right thing to do. Her original comment was out of line and shouldn't have been said. She could have made the point she was attempting to make in a much better manner that didn't go after Ann for being a stay at home mom.

229 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:08:36am

re: #222 Obdicut

I don't think that Rosen's choice of words was in any way good or wise, and I don't think falling for the 'trap' of talking about Mrs. Romney was smart, but in context, yes, she clearly was talking about women who also are employed in a you-get-paid-for-it job.

Quite. Mouth was opened, foot was inserted, outrage was had, apology was made.

The news cycle sans news is a really brutal thing.

230 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:09:07am

re: #202 NJDhockeyfan

Hard work, how about no work?

Ann Romney has "never worked a day in her life."

As I stated before, when people use the word "work," it's usually in the context of a paying job. I'm not sure how it is now, but not that long ago, stay-at-home moms were looked at askance when asked what they did for a living, as if that wasn't really work. I think it's pretty apparent that that's where Rosen is coming from, that Ann Romney has never had a paying job and hasn't had to concern herself with such financial matters because she's always had money to do whatever.

231 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:09:15am

re: #227 Gus

Hilary Rosen had no reason to apologize. She was right.

She was right, but it makes her look like the better person for apologizing instead of letting the Republicans keep whining and bleating about her.

232 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:09:39am

re: #201 Charles Johnson

And now, the inevitable politically driven apology:

Think I'll have to echo voices here who state that her point was valid, but the apology was a good choice. If nothing else, it will get people talking about Ann Romney and how poor a choice (no pun intended) she is for Mitt's go-to person on women's issues.

233 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:10:02am

*headdesk* I give up. I'm gonna go code something—I need to be in a world where semantics are clearly understood and logic applies.

Later, lizards.

234 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:10:18am

re: #227 Gus

Hilary Rosen had no reason to apologize. She was right.

Yes. But politically, she did the right move. Hope everybody can move on right now. (I now get what you meant today you're tired hearing about this.)

235 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:10:23am

re: #187 NJDhockeyfan

re: #178 blueraven

It's a helluva lot of work for any mother. They rarely get weekends off, vacation time, and sick days. Remember that.

I know. I was a stay at home Mom. Get off your high horse here. It would have been easier for me if I had a nanny, a housekeeper, a gardener and money for spa, vacation etc.... Can you deny that?

236 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:10:45am

re: #217 CSUH2001

We as women should have the freedom to live the life we choose. If we want to be childfree we should be respected and if we choose to stay at home and have children in spite of the financial burden we should be respected.

I totally agree with this, and have never said otherwise.

I know for a fact there is a political movement in this country that wants to overturn Roe V. Wade. These people also want to get rid of the whole of the federal government. Its not happening.

I totally disagree with this, and I wonder why you feel that you need to misinform people about what's happening. There's a deliberate, nation-wide effort going on by the right and the religious right, to chip away at abortion rights every way they possibly can, with the ultimate goal being to repeal Roe v. Wade. And it's just wrong to say "its not happening." It IS happening. In the past 8 years the right has had a disturbing amount of success with this effort.

Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring it is your choice, and again, I respect that. But don't try to tell people it's not happening at all.

237 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:10:49am

re: #183 Sionainn

That's because "choice" doesn't equal abortion. When I was younger, I chose to use birth control pills because I wasn't in a position to raise a child. When I was in a position to do so, I chose to stop taking birth control pills. I chose to get pregnant. I chose to have certain tests performed and chose not to have others performed. Abortion never entered into my choice.

I never said it was equal. I simply stated that sometimes the word choice is used when discussing abortion. I am not playing a semantics game. Birth Control is wonderful and I'm not sure why any conservative would be against it. It is a good way to prevent unplanned pregnancies. As a woman I am fully aware that BC has a myriad of uses. My sister has PCOS.

238 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:10:49am

re: #207 Obdicut

I'm glad you acknowledge that it makes it easier. Then there's also the issue of women who have to work while also taking care of their children. Some women have to do that-- especially many of the single mothers in this country, who have to hold down full-time jobs while also taking care of their kids, often relying on family and friends for childcare.

Living on the edge like that is really no fun, and it's really upsetting the way that Romney and the GOP's proposed budget cuts would make life much, much harder on those working mothers.

I get the "pleasure" of working at home while trying to take care of my children since we can't make it without two paychecks.

239 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:11:29am

re: #231 Lidane

She was right, but it makes her look like the better person for apologizing instead of letting the Republicans keep whining and bleating about her.

re: #234 Johnny Derp

Yes. But politically, she did the right move. Hope everybody can move on right now. (I now get what you meant today you're tired hearing about this.)

I know. One fact remains. Barack Obama is the best and only choice for women the USA.

240 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:12:06am

re: #239 Gus

re: #234 Johnny Derp

I know. One fact remains. Barack Obama is the best and only choice for women the USA.

For men too.

241 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:12:18am

re: #133 carlaschluge

You're wrong on all counts. There is no GOP movement to outlaw birth control. Where are the facts to back that up? (crickets)

The GOP is not trying to redefine when pregnancy starts. I don't see that anywhere on the GOP's platform. GOP against equal pay? Wrong again. By the way, check out Pres. Obama's White House staff, where women are paid 18% less than men.


LOL - if you think this is going to change the gender gap for the election, you're delusional. On second thought, keep thinking that. Election night will be that much sweeter if your side doesn't see what's coming.

The whole so-called "war on women" is ginned up fakery, and Rosen is responsible for it backfiring. Now there is a war on motherhood, and it ain't the Republicans fighting that war. Democrats, say buh-bye to soccer moms.

242 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:12:25am

re: #227 Gus

Hilary Rosen had no reason to apologize. She was right.

It was complete bullshit that she felt the need to apologize, because within the context of her comments, anyone with more than a couple of functioning brain cells would know exactly what she was talking about (that Ann Romney did not work at a paying job outside the home while raising her family).

But some people can't or won't accept that, therefore the MBFs come out fast and furious.

243 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:12:26am
244 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:12:33am

re: #240 HappyWarrior

For men too.

And for puppies. /

245 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:12:47am

You stay classy, Catholic League.

246 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:13:42am

re: #244 Johnny Derp

And for puppies. /

Especially when they grow up to be dogs.

//

247 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:14:00am

re: #244 Johnny Derp

And for puppies. /

Especially for the puppies. But they don't vote. IF they did, Romney would be doomed.

248 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:14:04am

re: #245 erik_t

You stay classy, Catholic League.

Wooow. Way to lower the discourse.

249 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:14:07am

re: #245 erik_t

You stay classy, Catholic League.

I think we should all be able to agree that statement is clearly out of line any way you look at it.

250 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:14:24am

re: #246 Gus

Especially when they grow up to be dogs.

//

!

251 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:15:01am

re: #245 erik_t

You stay classy, Catholic League.

POS SOBs hiding behind the tattered cloak of the Catholic Church.

252 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:15:28am

re: #250 Johnny Derp

!

Image: Romney-Dog.jpg

253 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:15:31am

My pet peeve: one can't stay classy if one has never been classy to begin with.

254 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:15:50am

re: #245 erik_t

You stay classy, Catholic League.

The Catholic League: Engaging in Middle School politics.

255 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:16:04am

re: #253 Johnny Derp

My pet peeve: one can't stay classy if one has never been classy to begin with.

Why do you drive in a parkway but park in a driveway?

256 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:16:19am

re: #220 Targetpractice

It's in the process of happening and will happen if women continue to bury their heads in the sand and act as though Roe v Wade is etched in stone.

Exactly. And if they don't pay attention to the issues.

The right to privacy that the GOP is always whining about? That comes from Griswold v. Connecticut, which was the SCOTUS case overturning a law that outlawed contraception for married couples. Social conservatives hate Griswold. They also hate Eisenstadt v. Baird, which extended the privacy rights and access to contraception of Griswold to unmarried people.

When you hear these conservative types wanting to overturn the right to privacy, they're really wanting to overturn decisions like Griswold, and outlaw birth control again. That's a problem.

257 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:16:29am

re: #253 Johnny Derp

My pet peeve: one can't stay classy if one has never been classy to begin with.

True that. Billy Donohue's Anti-Semitism is well documented.

258 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:16:41am

re: #255 Obdicut

Why do you drive in a parkway but park in a driveway?

Why is the guy you trust to make you money called a "broker"?

259 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:16:49am

re: #236 Charles Johnson

I totally agree with this, and have never said otherwise.

I totally disagree with this, and I wonder why you feel that you need to misinform people about what's happening. There's a deliberate, nation-wide effort going on by the right and the religious right, to chip away at abortion rights every way they possibly can, with the ultimate goal being to repeal Roe v. Wade. And it's just wrong to say "its not happening." It IS happening. In the past 8 years the right has had a disturbing amount of success with this effort.

Sticking your head in the sand and ignoring it is your choice, and again, I respect that. But don't try to tell people it's not happening at all.

I'm not sure how to answer this. I honestly don't believe Roe. V. Wade will be overturned. I am not a political activist or a lawyer so I can't make an educated guess on how real the threat is. In saying "its not happening" I am not saying they are not trying. I am saying that I believe it won't happen. What legal argument can social conservatives make against unrestricted abortion?

260 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:16:53am

re: #244 Johnny Derp

And for puppies. /

He failed to save mine.

261 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:17:15am

re: #245 erik_t

You stay classy, Catholic League.

#WaronADOPTIVEmothers

262 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:17:22am

re: #237 CSUH2001

I never said it was equal. I simply stated that sometimes the word choice is used when discussing abortion. I am not playing a semantics game. Birth Control is wonderful and I'm not sure why any conservative would be against it. It is a good way to prevent unplanned pregnancies. As a woman I am fully aware that BC has a myriad of uses. My sister has PCOS.

Reread your #172. Sure sounds like you equate choice with abortion. In fact, didn't you even call it a "code word" for abortion? I simply pointed out that what you said was not true.

263 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:17:28am

re: #256 Lidane

Exactly. And if they don't pay attention to the issues.

The right to privacy that the GOP is always whining about? That comes from Griswold v. Connecticut, which was the SCOTUS case overturning a law that outlawed contraception for married couples. Social conservatives hate Griswold. They also hate Eisenstadt v. Baird, which extended the privacy rights and access to contraception of Griswold to unmarried people.

When you hear these conservative types wanting to overturn the right to privacy, they're really wanting to overturn decisions like Griswold, and outlaw birth control again. That's a problem.

It's craziness at its worst.

264 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:17:36am

re: #260 NJDhockeyfan

He failed to save mine.

Bush's legacy. /

265 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:17:39am

I can't wait until Rush responds. Outrage!

266 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:17:46am

re: #259 CSUH2001

I'm not sure how to answer this. I honestly don't believe Roe. V. Wade will be overturned. I am not a political activist or a lawyer so I can't make an educated guess on how real the threat is. In saying "its not happening" I am not saying they are not trying. I am saying that I believe it won't happen. What legal argument can social conservatives make against unrestricted abortion?

Once again, would you be willing to support people who say they want to overturn Roe V Wade?

267 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:17:52am

re: #259 CSUH2001

I'm not sure how to answer this. I honestly don't believe Roe. V. Wade will be overturned. I am not a political activist or a lawyer so I can't make an educated guess on how real the threat is. In saying "its not happening" I am not saying they are not trying. I am saying that I believe it won't happen. What legal argument can social conservatives make against unrestricted abortion?

One word: "Personhood."

268 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:19:50am
269 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:20:27am

re: #267 Targetpractice

One word: "Personhood."

two more words: Rand Paul

270 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:20:33am

re: #255 Obdicut

Why do you drive in a parkway but park in a driveway?

I used to pay a bill addressed to "Crossways Park Drive". My second favorite street name, after "Calle Sin Nombre".

271 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:21:00am

re: #266 jamesfirecat

Once again, would you be willing to support people who say they want to overturn Roe V Wade?

I am not ignoring you. Its possible I would support the person, but not necessarily that part of their platform. I have never in my life voted for someone who agreed with me on everything.

272 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:21:35am

re: #259 CSUH2001

I'm not sure how to answer this. I honestly don't believe Roe. V. Wade will be overturned. I am not a political activist or a lawyer so I can't make an educated guess on how real the threat is. In saying "its not happening" I am not saying they are not trying. I am saying that I believe it won't happen. What legal argument can social conservatives make against unrestricted abortion?

Thomas and Scalia are two certain votes to overrule Roe, as they voted that way in Planned Parenthood v. Casey and have shown no signs of changing. It seems very possible both Alito and Roberts would agree. Those are four certain or plausible votes against Roe right there.

273 sagehen  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:21:55am

re: #255 Obdicut

Why do you drive in a parkway but park in a driveway?

The same reason ships carry cargo and cars carry shipments.

Wise man and wiseguy are opposites. Overlook and oversee are opposites. But flammable and inflammable are the same thing.

274 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:22:25am

re: #272 Simply Sarah

Thomas and Scalia are two certain votes to overrule Roe, as they voted that way in Planned Parenthood v. Casey and have shown no signs of changing. It seems very possible both Alito and Roberts would agree. Those are four certain or plausible votes against Roe right there.

What would be the legal justification?

275 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:22:41am

re: #272 Simply Sarah

Thomas and Scalia are two certain votes to overrule Roe, as they voted that way in Planned Parenthood v. Casey and have shown no signs of changing. It seems very possible both Alito and Roberts would agree. Those are four certain or plausible votes against Roe right there.

And I think one of Ginsburg, Kennedy, or Breyer will retire soon. Good points about Thomas and Scalia.

276 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:23:31am

re: #259 CSUH2001

I'm not sure how to answer this. I honestly don't believe Roe. V. Wade will be overturned. I am not a political activist or a lawyer so I can't make an educated guess on how real the threat is. In saying "its not happening" I am not saying they are not trying. I am saying that I believe it won't happen. What legal argument can social conservatives make against unrestricted abortion?

They are looking to overturn the law, not with 'legal arguments', but with new laws.

I used to feel secure that Roe would not be overturned, but now I see how it is being encroached upon in almost every state, and I believe that not only is Roe not secure, but it is insufficient.

277 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:24:45am

re: #274 CSUH2001

What would be the legal justification?

Fairly simple, actually. It would be justified on the grounds that Roe was incorrectly decided in the first place. Likely it would involve saying there is no right to privacy in the Constitution, which would undermine all rulings based on that such as Griswold and Eisenstadt.

278 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:25:28am

re: #271 CSUH2001

I am not ignoring you. Its possible I would support the person, but not necessarily that part of their platform. I have never in my life voted for someone who agreed with me on everything.

All I can say then is don't be surprised if when you vote for people who say they want to take away your right to get an abortion, end up... taking away your right to abortion....

///WHAT A TWISSTTTTT!

279 Dustoff848  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:25:37am

You have got to admit though that she (Hilary) really stuck her foot in her mouth. There are a million OTHER ways she could have made that point.

280 sagehen  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:25:43am

re: #259 CSUH2001

What legal argument can social conservatives make against unrestricted abortion?

That John Roberts is chief justice and vehemently anti-abortion. That Samuel Alito is vehemently anti-abortion. That Clarence Thomas and Antonin Scalia are vehemently anti-abortion. That anybody a President Romney would appoint would be vehemently anti-abortion.

That's all the argument they need; they've already proved, with Citizens United, that they don't give a shit about stare decesis.

281 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:26:54am

re: #277 Simply Sarah

Fairly simple, actually. It would be justified on the grounds that Roe was incorrectly decided in the first place. Likely it would involve saying there is no right to privacy in the Constitution, which would undermine all rulings based on that such as Griswold and Eisenstadt.

This is absolutely correct. Scalia and Thomas both believe and I think have said as much that they don't feel that there is a right to privacy in the Constitution.

282 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:27:13am

re: #245 erik_t

You stay classy, Catholic League.

Nice - now going after families that adopt children. That'll get them far. Assholes.

283 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:27:13am

re: #279 Dustoff848

You have got to admit though that she (Hilary) really stuck her foot in her mouth. There are a million OTHER ways she could have made that point.

Which is probably why she apologized.

You've got to admit she had a point, right?

284 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:27:48am

re: #274 CSUH2001

What would be the legal justification?

"[Texas] argues that the fetus is a ‘person' within the language and meaning of the Fourteenth Amendment...If this suggestion of personhood is established, the appellant's case (or Roe's case) collapses, for the fetus' right to life is then guaranteed by the 14th Amendment."

That's part of the text of the Roe v. Wade decision. That is the crux of the efforts to write "personhood amendments" into the law of every state of the union, if not the union itself.

285 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:27:55am
286 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:28:08am

re: #278 jamesfirecat

All I can say then is don't be surprised if when you vote for people who say they want to take away your right to get an abortion, end up... taking away your right to abortion...

///WHAT A TWISSTTT!

I have no interest or need in an abortion.

287 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:28:10am

re: #277 Simply Sarah

Fairly simple, actually. It would be justified on the grounds that Roe was incorrectly decided in the first place. Likely it would involve saying there is no right to privacy in the Constitution, which would undermine all rulings based on that such as Griswold and Eisenstadt.

Or defining when life begins. If the congress can pass a personhood bill defining life at conception, it could render Roe v Wade moot.

288 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:29:27am

re: #286 CSUH2001

I have no interest or need in an abortion.

And as a man I have no interest or need in an abortion either.

I still feel that its a bad president that other people's lives can come before our own private property.

How would you feel about mandated blood donations?

289 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:29:58am

re: #286 CSUH2001

I have no interest or need in an abortion.

What if you found yourself in the same position as this woman?

Nebraska’s new abortion law forced Danielle Deaver to live through ten excruciating days, waiting to give birth to a baby that she and her doctors knew would die minutes later, fighting for breath that would not come.

290 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:30:02am

re: #286 CSUH2001

I have no interest or need in an abortion.

Yet you've admitted to knowing women who have obtained one. Do you think your lack of interest or need should have been enough to deny them access?

291 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:30:41am

re: #286 CSUH2001

I have no interest or need in an abortion.

But as you said above, you are human and have empathy. As a person with empathy, I still care about abortion, even though I'm past menopause. I swore when I was younger I would not be like Ms, "Roe" herself, and turn my back on fertile women.

292 dragonfire1981  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:31:36am

re: #285 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

how do you get tweets to show up like this in comments?

293 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:32:07am

Rush Limbaugh: Democrats ‘war on mothers’

This is big because it’s such a teachable moment. It’s such an illustration of who these people are, the left. It’s such an illustration of phonies of feminism. It is an illustration of the absolute hostility that the left has for women who stay at home,” the conservative radio host said, speaking before Rosen issued a statement apologizing to Ann Romney.
He continued, “Obama and the Democrats are not content to just divide men and women. They want to go deeper and dive working mothers from stay at home mothers. And they want to attach the virtue to working mothers and assign no virtue to stay at home moms. Now you talk to most women, even those who consider themselves feminists … they will tell you that they thought that was a battle they fought and won and ended years ago.”

I'm outraged!

294 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:32:39am

re: #167 NJDhockeyfan

I didn't say it was easy. Whatever her financial or social position was at that time it was simply above the national average since she went to private school; her father owned Jerred Industries in Troy, MI; attended Stanford University; etc. There is no equivalency to motherhood here and some people are better off than others. It's like health care. It's about privilege.

295 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:33:11am

re: #133 carlaschluge

You're wrong on all counts. There is no GOP movement to outlaw birth control. Where are the facts to back that up? (crickets)

See the Blunt Amendment, which would have allowed any employer to deny funding for contraceptives. See the statement of Rick Santorum who stated states should be allowed to ban contraceptives (and his 2006 statement that he considered them - to include condoms - harmful to our nation). I believe that takes care of "crickets".

The GOP is not trying to redefine when pregnancy starts. I don't see that anywhere on the GOP's platform.

Others have hit this, but Arizona now defines pregnancy as starting at the end of the last period. That is before the egg and sperm can get together. Equivalent bills are being considered in Oklahoma, Kansas, and Georgia.

GOP against equal pay? Wrong again.

The governor of Wisconsin signed a bill that revokes the law that made pay discrimination by gender illegal. There have been two (at least) bills in Congress that attempted to make gender-based pay discrimination illegal, all denied cloture by Republican senators.

Oh, and as to your stupid 18% pay difference in Obama's administration, may I suggest you consider that the discrimination being discussed is different pay for the same position. I agree that the fact men tend to have higher positions is a problem but it is, in this case, a misdirection. The women holding equivalent rank/position in the current administration's offices have the same pay as the men.

296 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:33:14am

re: #293 Killgore Trout

Rush Limbaugh: Democrats ‘war on mothers’

I'm outraged!

Still trolling?

297 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:33:21am
Limbaugh also said of Democrats, “This is who they are. This is exactly how they think. This is how they feel. They are angry and they are hostile and they are not compassionate, they are not nice, they have no manners. In the basics of human existence, they are reprobates. They don’t understand politeness. They are rude, they are crude, they are thoughtless, they are selfish they are mean.”
He added, “And it has all come out in one display, one appearance — Hillary Rosen on CNN.”

Boycott!

298 Dustoff848  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:33:27am

re: #283 wrenchwench

Which is probably why she apologized.

You've got to admit she had a point, right?

Mmm...I might agree, but I would be careful about whom I said that in front of...

299 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:33:41am
300 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:33:53am

re: #296 Gus

Still trolling?

Lolling

301 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:34:08am

re: #293 Killgore Trout

Rush Limbaugh: Democrats ‘war on mothers’

I'm outraged!

There are lots of Wars On [fill in the blank]. I am declaring a war on war.

302 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:34:11am

re: #298 Dustoff848

Mmm...I might agree, but I would be careful about whom I said that in front of...

Too late!

303 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:34:22am

re: #293 Killgore Trout

Didn't you imply you have a personal boycott of Limbaugh?

304 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:34:38am

re: #290 Targetpractice

Yet you've admitted to knowing women who have obtained one. Do you think your lack of interest or need should have been enough to deny them access?

I have already said I have no desire or need to prevent anyone from getting an abortion.

305 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:34:46am

re: #283 wrenchwench

Which is probably why she apologized.

You've got to admit she had a point, right?

Which was? Based on her first comment, it appeared to be that a stay at home mother never worked. She expanded, later, to say that Ann Romney doesn't understand the woes of working economically-stressed women, but that wasn't what her initial statement meant to me.

306 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:35:01am

Limbaugh's just being his usual troll self. I find it amusing he's calling anyone mean spirited though. Y tu?

307 JeffM70  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:35:10am

I suspect outside of the right-wing, this isn't getting much traction. Rush is merely preaching to the choir.

308 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:35:22am

re: #304 CSUH2001

I have already said I have no desire or need to prevent anyone from getting an abortion.

But the Republican party DOES have that need and desire. That's the point.

309 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:35:26am

re: #301 NJDhockeyfan

There are lots of Wars On [fill in the blank]. I am declaring a war on war.

Peacenik!

310 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:35:39am

re: #303 Johnny Derp

Didn't you imply you have a personal boycott of Limbaugh?

It's a War on Rush!

311 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:35:44am

re: #304 CSUH2001

I have already said I have no desire or need to prevent anyone from getting an abortion.

Do you have any desire to make sure other people don't prevent them from getting abortions?

312 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:35:49am

re: #293 Killgore Trout

Sounds like the corpulent little sterile shit is projecting.

313 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:35:54am

re: #292 dragonfire1981

how do you get tweets to show up like this in comments?

...

355 Gus Thu, Apr 12, 2012 9:13:44am

re: #354 sagehen

how does one go about posting a tweet?

Open. Details. Copy URL. Paste.

Then when the page is refreshed, it looks like it does at Twitter.

314 funky chicken  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:35:58am

re: #115 SanFranciscoZionist

She's had to deal with a lot. And if she wants to talk about those things, that's cool with me, including the difficulties of raising a big family.

"I don't consider myself wealthy," is obnoxious though, and poor politics, at least toward some of her audience.

She's a lousy politician. So is her husband, at least now that he's done a 180 on pretty much every issue most Americans care about. But I wouldn't call her obnoxious. My parents are quite comfortable and have friends who are wealthy, but they aren't into the ostentatious fast lane stuff. I could see them saying the same kind of thing.

Hilary Rosen screwed up. The Obama folks, again, were smart to distance themselves from her stupid remark.

315 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:35:59am

re: #308 Lidane

But the Republican party DOES have that need and desire. That's the point.

And their actions since getting majorities in state legislatures have shown that.

316 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:36:04am

re: #305 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Which was? Based on her first comment, it appeared to be that a stay at home mother never worked. She expanded, later, to say that Ann Romney doesn't understand the woes of working economically-stressed women, but that wasn't what her initial statement meant to me.

Even though the discussion was about employment outside the home, it was incredibly tone deaf of Rosen to make such a statement. It was appropriate that she apologized.

317 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:37:04am
318 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:37:30am

re: #304 CSUH2001

I have already said I have no desire or need to prevent anyone from getting an abortion.

But the GOP has plenty of desire and sees a very real need. Do you think your apathy on the subject is stopping them?

319 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:38:05am

re: #307 JeffM70

I suspect outside of the right-wing, this isn't getting much traction. Rush is merely preaching to the choir.

It's just some red meat for the day. Keeps the right wing base full of rage against the evil liberals who are trying to destroy morality.

320 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:38:59am

re: #319 Charles Johnson

It's just some red meat for the day. Keeps the right wing base full of rage against the evil liberals who are trying to destroy morality.

Keeping the tools in line.

321 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:39:06am

re: #316 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Even though the discussion was about employment outside the home. It was incredibly tone deaf of Rosen to make such a statement. It was appropriate that she apologized.

Barbara Bush reacts...

Former First Lady Barbara Bush commended her apology, echoing Rosen's plea and saying people should "forget it."

"Life is good," Bush said on Fox News. "Women who stay home are, wonderful women who go to work are wonderful. so whatever."

Bush, who worked at home raising seven children - one of which would go on to be the 44th president - said she was "lucky" to have the "luxury" of staying home.

"I was lucky my husband worked very, very hard," Bush said. "I realize that was a luxury and Ann does too. She's a very good friend of mine."

The former first lady added: "I'm not critical of Hilary but I'm just sorry she took a knock at those of us who chose and who were able- and that's very important able- to stay home."

She's a class act.

322 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:39:10am

re: #311 jamesfirecat

Do you have any desire to make sure other people don't prevent them from getting abortions?

Not really.

323 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:39:11am

re: #305 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Which was? Based on her first comment, it appeared to be that a stay at home mother never worked. She expanded, later, to say that Ann Romney doesn't understand the woes of working economically-stressed women, but that wasn't what her initial statement meant to me.

The initial statement is what she apologized for. The point is the later expansion, as shown in the article at the top. An excerpt:

So it begs the question, is Ann Romney Mitt's touchstone for women who are struggling economically or not? Nothing in Ann Romney's history as we have heard it -- hardworking mom she may have been -- leads me to believe that Mitt has chosen the right expert to get feedback on this problem he professes to be so concerned about.

324 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:39:26am

re: #319 Charles Johnson

It's just some red meat for the day. Keeps the right wing base full of rage against the evil liberals who are trying to destroy morality.

The rest of the media has an obnoxious habit of running with fox news memes, however.

325 funky chicken  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:39:30am

re: #245 erik_t

You stay classy, Catholic League.

Wow. That's even dumber than Ms. Rosen.

326 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:39:44am

I'm reasonably sure that the Democrats are only engaged in a war on wholesome natural-birth mothers. We love us some lesbian adoptive mothers, or whatever.

I can't even keep up with this stupidity.

327 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:40:59am

And by the way:

328 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:41:07am

re: #322 CSUH2001

Not really.

You are an infuriatingly self-absorbed person.

Can't really think of anything else to say....

329 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:41:27am

re: #318 Targetpractice

But the GOP has plenty of desire and sees a very real need. Do you think your apathy on the subject is stopping them?

No, I don't think my apathy has anything to do with the political process. I know lots of people who don't even vote. Their apathy and distrust of the political process is their choice.

330 allegro  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:42:38am

As a kid growing up when my mom "worked" it meant at a paying job. When she talked about "going back to work" we all knew what that meant as did society as a whole. It had no reflection whatsoever on the tasks she performed as a homemaker and mother - tasks that remained even when she "worked." In the past couple of decades at least, I have made a point of adding the three most important words that Ms. Rosen failed to add as thus: "Mrs. Rmney has never worked outside the home in her life," though it was clearly what she meant especially in light of the topic being discussed.

An apology is fine for failing to add those 3 words to her sentence, though the content of everything she said was dead on.

331 celticdragon  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:42:41am

re: #10 Gus

There are stay at home moms and then there are stay at home moms who reside in a household with a net worth of close to 1/5th of a billion dollars; car elevators; Cadillacs; limos; private jets; the ability to afford nannies, maids, butlers; the best health insurance money can buy for everyone in the household; college education for the children in the bank; Swiss bank accounts; private jets; etc.

Don't forget her dressage horses...

332 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:42:41am

re: #328 jamesfirecat

You are a infuriatingly self-absorbed person.

Can't really think of anything else to say...

Alternatively, you are being professionally trolled...

333 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:42:48am

re: #327 Charles Johnson

And by the way:

KT has waged a war on the blogesphere.

334 Mattand  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:43:18am

re: #217 CSUH2001

As a woman I couldn't do it, but it is not up for me to decide. And this is how we return to the issue, choice. We as women should have the freedom to live the life we choose. If we want to be childfree we should be respected and if we choose to stay at home and have children in spite of the financial burden we should be respected. I know for a fact there is a political movement in this country that wants to overturn Roe V. Wade. These people also want to get rid of the whole of the federal government. Its not happening.

You sound like one of those Republicans on who it's now dawning that the GOP is full of batshit crazy conservatives and religious fanatics, but you can't bring yourself to admit it.

Look, the GOP is the political movement in this country, as you put it, that wants to overturn abortion. It's not some tiny fringe whacko group; it's in the current version's DNA.

Seriously, go to Tampa in August and tell people what you said in your nominal pro-choice quote above. The best that will happen is that people will tell you you're what's wrong with the USA.

335 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:43:21am

re: #333 NJDhockeyfan

KT has waged a war on the blogesphere.

That dude is busy!!!
//

336 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:43:46am

re: #329 CSUH2001

No, I don't think my apathy has anything to do with the political process. I know lots of people who don't even vote. Their apathy and distrust of the political process is their choice.

Indeed, it's their choice. Were it but possible to silence their grousing when they choose not to vote and still believe their opinions matter.

337 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:44:06am

re: #335 Darth Vader Gargoyle

That dude is busy!!!
//

Killgore Trout the warmonger!

338 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:44:14am

re: #328 jamesfirecat

You are an infuriatingly self-absorbed person.

Can't really think of anything else to say...

I'm sorry you feel that way, but it is factually incorrect. I am the opposite of self absorbed. I have four children, a husband, family, and friends, and I am the last person I take care of.

339 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:45:46am

re: #337 NJDhockeyfan

Killgore Trout the warmonger!

As long as Rove keeps sending the Zionist paychecks.

340 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:46:00am

re: #338 CSUH2001

I'm sorry you feel that way, but it is factually incorrect. I am the opposite of self absorbed. I have four children, a husband, family, and friends, and I am the last person I take care of.

You are commenting on a political blog, the 'apathy' dodge falls flat.

341 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:46:31am

re: #339 Killgore Trout

As long as Rove keeps sending the Zionist paychecks.

Hey man, I didn't get mine this month!

//

342 jamesfirecat  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:46:40am

re: #338 CSUH2001

I'm sorry you feel that way, but it is factually incorrect. I am the opposite of self absorbed. I have four children, a husband, family, and friends, and I am the last person I take care of.

If you don't care about an issue because it does not affect you (and you've said as much that you don't care about defending abortion since it doesn't affect you)... how are you not self absorbed, or at least lacking in empathy?

At the very least you are living in a small bubble/tribe where you are only caring about you and yours.

343 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:47:33am

re: #340 wrenchwench

You are commenting on a political blog, the 'apathy' dodge falls flat.

Yeah, this.

Posting on a political blog then trying to claim that you don't care about the people or the issues involved is a dodge. I don't buy it.

344 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:48:29am

re: #274 CSUH2001

If you're for overturning Roe, it would be on grounds that the Constitution doesn't specifically grant that right/protection, and that it isn't within the plain meaning of the Constitution or Bill of Rights - that the stare decisis of the earlier cases are not operative and overturning the outcome of Roe.

That general principle would apply if you're seeking to overturn Eisenstadt or Griswold.

Generally, the Court wont overturn earlier decisions unless it finds a really good reason to do so (Brown overturned Plessy v. Ferguson, for instance.)

If you're for keeping the outcome of Roe (and its progeny) plus cases like Griswold, you'd be claiming that overturning the cases would create due process and equal protection problems nationally as applied and de facto, as well as affecting the public health and welfare.

/quick and dirty recap

345 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:48:43am
346 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:48:45am

I turned on the news today and saw the comments about Mrs. Romney and as a stay at home mom, I was insulted. My children are well behaved honor students and it is not easy. Do not tell me I don't work. And no I am not looking for credit for doing what I am supposed to do. re: #336 Targetpractice

Indeed, it's their choice. Were it but possible to silence their grousing when they choose not to vote and still believe their opinions matter.

I understand your frustration.

347 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:48:50am

re: #341 Targetpractice

Hey man, I didn't get mine this month!

//

Last month's checks were docked. Mr.s Romney needed a pedicure after her afternoon of horseback riding.

348 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:49:21am
349 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:49:24am

re: #345 Gus

Please tell me that's sarcasm.

350 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:49:55am

re: #349 HappyWarrior

Please tell me that's sarcasm.

Yes. TCC is a joke account.

351 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:50:12am

re: #343 Lidane

Yeah, this.

Posting on a political blog then trying to claim that you don't care about the people or the issues involved is a dodge. I don't buy it.

I never called myself apathetic. I was responding to being called apathetic. Yes I do read political blogs from time to time. I thought this thread would be about the comments about Romney's wife, it turned into abortion.

352 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:50:41am

By the way, I hope other people also noticed this about Catholic League's disgusting tweet:

353 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:50:45am

re: #346 CSUH2001

I turned on the news today and saw the comments about Mrs. Romney and as a stay at home mom, I was insulted. My children are well behaved honor students and it is not easy. Do not tell me I don't work. And no I am not looking for credit for doing what I am supposed to do.

All better now that she's apologized?

354 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:50:46am

re: #347 Killgore Trout

Last month's checks were docked. Mr.s Romney needed a pedicure after her afternoon of horseback riding.

*sighs* Damnit, and here I was planning to buy a gold-plated Hummer for the commute to work.

///

355 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:50:51am

re: #350 Gus

Yes. TCC is a joke account.

Just making sure. It's hard to tell these days.

356 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:51:27am

re: #344 lawhawk

If you're for overturning Roe, it would be on grounds that the Constitution doesn't specifically grant that right/protection, and that it isn't within the plain meaning of the Constitution or Bill of Rights - that the stare decisis of the earlier cases are not operative and overturning the outcome of Roe.

That general principle would apply if you're seeking to overturn Eisenstadt or Griswold.

Generally, the Court wont overturn earlier decisions unless it finds a really good reason to do so (Brown overturned Plessy v. Ferguson, for instance.)

If you're for keeping the outcome of Roe (and its progeny) plus cases like Griswold, you'd be claiming that overturning the cases would create due process and equal protection problems nationally as applied and de facto, as well as affecting the public health and welfare.

/quick and dirty recap

Thank you!!

357 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:51:30am

re: #351 CSUH2001

I never called myself apathetic. I was responding to being called apathetic. Yes I do read political blogs from time to time. I thought this thread would be about the comments about Romney's wife, it turned into abortion.

That's what we call the Magical Balance Fairy. Magic.

358 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:51:38am

re: #347 Killgore Trout

Last month's checks were docked. Mr.s Romney needed a pedicure after her afternoon of horseback riding.

Outrage!

359 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:52:28am

re: #352 Interesting Times

By the way, I hope others also noticed this about Catholic League's disgusting tweet:

360 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:53:03am

re: #351 CSUH2001

I never called myself apathetic. I was responding to being called apathetic. Yes I do read political blogs from time to time. I thought this thread would be about the comments about Romney's wife, it turned into abortion.

It is about Romney's wife, in so far as we're being informed that we must respect her choice to be a stay-at-home mom, but her hubby and the political party he's beholden to can deny other women that same choice.

361 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:53:10am

re: #352 Interesting Times

By the way, I hope others also noticed this about Catholic League's disgusting tweet:

Right on.

362 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:53:21am

re: #348 Gus

This attack on Ann Romney is not a good idea. Just because she is wealthy does not mean she has not struggled. She has MS. Yes, she also has good health insurance that helps, but why go after her like this?

363 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:53:34am

re: #353 wrenchwench

All better now that she's apologized?

It could be that my being offended is my own personal issue and maybe has to due with resentment? Could be people in my own life have insulted my choice not to have a career? I wouldn't say its "better" I would say I do appreciate the forum and being allowed to comment.

364 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:54:01am

re: #351 CSUH2001

I thought this thread would be about the comments about Romney's wife, it turned into abortion.

The reality is that if one is going to talk about women and economics, it would be disingenuous to leave abortion out of it until it really is a secure option for every woman.

365 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:55:30am

George Zimmerman appears before judge in Trayvon Martin case

Seminole County Judge Mark Herr, who spoke via a closed-circuit television connection during the four-minute hearing, set Zimmerman's arraignment for May 29 and said all matters including bond and further motions in the case will be handled by Circuit Court Judge Jessica Recksiedler going forward.

As the conclusion of the hearing, Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara, asked that records containing personal information on witnesses, including addresses and telephone numbers in some cases, be sealed. As nothing else besides the probable cause affidavit had been filed in court Thursday, Herr said Recksiedler will address a motion to seal the file.

O'Mara did not ask that Zimmerman be released on bond, although he said earlier in the day he wanted his client released as soon as possible.

He did note, however, that being out on bail could jeopardize Zimmerman's safety.

366 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:55:42am

re: #362 blueraven

This attack on Ann Romney is not a good idea. Just because she is wealthy does not mean she has not struggled. She has MS. Yes, she also has good health insurance that helps, but why go after her like this?

I don't think it's a good idea either. I said as such this morning or last night. It's a freaking trap.

367 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:55:54am

re: #364 wrenchwench

The reality is that if one is going to talk about women and economics, it would be disingenuous to leave abortion out of it until it really is a secure option for every woman.

As childbirth and childrearing are expensive I can see your point.

368 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:56:24am

re: #365 Lidane

George Zimmerman appears before judge in Trayvon Martin case

I watched, and didn't see any scars on the back of his head either.

369 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:57:00am

re: #366 Gus

I don't think it's a good idea either. I said as such this morning or last night. It's a freaking trap.

IOW. We shouldn't imitate Republicans and conservatives.

370 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:57:04am

re: #366 Gus

I don't think it's a good idea either. I said as such this morning or last night. It's a freaking trap.

It is also political douche-baggery, just like when GOP speaks ill of Michelle Obama.

371 funky chicken  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:57:04am

re: #345 Gus

Now that's funny.

372 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:57:16am

re: #356 CSUH2001

And it's further worth noting that the Court restricted Roe v. Wade in Planned Parenthood of Penn. v. Casey, and federal law has also banned late-term abortions, but the case law including and since has also limited what states can or can't do as far as restrictions on access to abortion. States may be able to impose a waiting period, but it has to be reasonable for instance. 24 hours may be reasonable, but 48 or 72 isn't or shouldn't be.

Some of the laws being proffered by the GOP are pushing the envelope on waiting periods for instance.

373 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:58:21am

re: #372 lawhawk

And it's further worth noting that the Court restricted Roe v. Wade in Planned Parenthood of Penn. v. Casey, and federal law has also banned late-term abortions, but the case law including and since has also limited what states can or can't do as far as restrictions on access to abortion. States may be able to impose a waiting period, but it has to be reasonable for instance. 24 hours may be reasonable, but 48 or 72 isn't or shouldn't be.

Some of the laws being proffered by the GOP are pushing the envelope on waiting periods for instance.

Thanks. I can see why some people would be concerned.

374 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:58:46am

re: #372 lawhawk

And it's further worth noting that the Court restricted Roe v. Wade in Planned Parenthood of Penn. v. Casey, and federal law has also banned late-term abortions, but the case law including and since has also limited what states can or can't do as far as restrictions on access to abortion. States may be able to impose a waiting period, but it has to be reasonable for instance. 24 hours may be reasonable, but 48 or 72 isn't or shouldn't be.

Some of the laws being proffered by the GOP are pushing the envelope on waiting periods for instance.

They tried a vaginal ultrasound bill here. Only reason why the governor withdrew his support is because the backlash was huge and he's got national ambitions. He also later signed a bill forcing an ultrasound. It's nonsense. I don't like abortion either but it is legal and the state shouldn't be harassing women over what is a legal procedure.

375 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:58:49am

re: #362 blueraven

This attack on Ann Romney is not a good idea. Just because she is wealthy does not mean she has not struggled. She has MS. Yes, she also has good health insurance that helps, but why go after her like this?

'Go after' implies to me that she hadn't already chosen to be part of this debate, which she most certainly did.

I agree that Rosen's phrasing sucked, but her point was entirely valid.

376 funky chicken  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:59:16am

re: #364 wrenchwench

The reality is that if one is going to talk about women and economics, it would be disingenuous to leave abortion out of it until it really is a secure option for every woman.

And Anne Romney used to give money to Planned Parenthood, so ...

377 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:59:35am

re: #276 wrenchwench

They are looking to overturn the law, not with 'legal arguments', but with new laws.

I used to feel secure that Roe would not be overturned, but now I see how it is being encroached upon in almost every state, and I believe that not only is Roe not secure, but it is insufficient.

Ashcroft got them going on that route, don't like a law voters put in place - just make some other law that will negate it. Don't remember off hand what state (Oregon I think) voted to pass a law allowing doctor assisted death if you were terminally ill. In comes Ashcroft and as an end around the voted for law he just said he would punish doctors that did assist in a suicide. He didn't overturn the law, he just made it impossible for a doctor to keep their license if they assisted (legally) with an end of life decision by a patient.

So much for the vaunted states rights huh repubs?

378 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:59:44am

re: #375 erik_t

'Go after' implies to me that she hadn't already chosen to be part of this debate, which she most certainly did.

I agree that Rosen's phrasing sucked, but her point was entirely valid.

I am talking about the tweets Gus posted.

379 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 11:59:59am

re: #367 CSUH2001

As childbirth and childrearing are expensive I can see your point.

Don't forget "time lost from work" and "totally screwed up career path" for women who wanted those options.

380 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:00:23pm

re: #372 lawhawk

And it's further worth noting that the Court restricted Roe v. Wade in Planned Parenthood of Penn. v. Casey, and federal law has also banned late-term abortions, but the case law including and since has also limited what states can or can't do as far as restrictions on access to abortion. States may be able to impose a waiting period, but it has to be reasonable for instance. 24 hours may be reasonable, but 48 or 72 isn't or shouldn't be.

Some of the laws being proffered by the GOP are pushing the envelope on waiting periods for instance.

And other laws, like the freakshow law in Arizona trying to change when pregnancy starts, are trying to move the goalposts in other ways.

381 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:02:10pm

GOP donor wonders if Obama's 'teleprompters are bullet-proof'

Foster Friess, a wealthy Republican who helped fund Rick Santorum’s presidential run but is now supporting Mitt Romney, used gun imagery Wednesday to describe the campaign against President Obama.

“There are a lot of things that haven’t been hammered at because Rick and Mitt have been going at each other,” Friess said during an interview on Fox Business Network. “Now that they have trained their barrels on President Obama, I hope his teleprompters are bullet-proof.”

Friess told ABC News that he regretted the statement immediately after making it....

382 JRCMYP  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:02:29pm

As a feminist, a mother, an Obama-supporter and someone who has alternatively put my career on hold and pursued it while staying home with my children, Rosen needs to back away from this. Ann Romney is not in your typical American tax-bracket, and I agree she is very likely out of touch with the struggles of many American women, but this is a no-win argument. Being rich does not preclude you from being sympathetic to other's struggles. And unless someone can tell me what's going on in Ann Romney's head, this is a bad line of reasoning to pursue an "out of touch" argument about Mitt Romney. Ann doesn't make policy. But Mitt has. Leave his wife out of it even if he doesn't.

383 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:02:39pm

Communications director of the RNC:

384 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:03:08pm

re: #381 Gus

GOP donor wonders if Obama's 'teleprompters are bullet-proof'

Yeehaw a gun joke. Maybe Preiss should put some aspirin in his knee.

385 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:03:22pm

re: #297 Killgore Trout

Boycott!

So the human sewer that called a woman he didn't know a slut, who insults Michelle Obama on a daily basis is calling Dems rude? And you listen to him for what reason?

386 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:03:37pm

re: #383 Lidane

Communications director of the RNC:

How about that. Good for him.

387 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:04:06pm

re: #382 JRCMYP

As a feminist, a mother, an Obama-supporter and someone who has alternatively put my career on hold and pursued it while staying home with my children, Rosen needs to back away from this. Ann Romney is not in your typical American tax-bracket, and I agree she is very likely out of touch with the struggles of many American women, but this is a no-win argument. Being rich does not preclude you from being sympathetic to other's struggles. And unless someone can tell me what's going on in Ann Romney's head, this is a bad line of reasoning to pursue an "out of touch" argument about Mitt Romney. Ann doesn't make policy. But Mitt has. Leave his wife out of it even if he doesn't.

This is all that needed to be said. The problem is people are defending her comments.

388 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:04:07pm

re: #383 Lidane

Communications director of the RNC:

Good for him.

389 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:04:13pm

re: #384 HappyWarrior

Yeehaw a gun joke. Maybe Preiss should put some aspirin in his knee.

He should hold an aspirin between his lips.

390 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:04:49pm

re: #389 wrenchwench

He should hold an aspirin between his lips.

his ass lips? Because that's where he seems to speak from most of the time.

391 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:05:14pm

re: #338 CSUH2001

I'm sorry you feel that way, but it is factually incorrect. I am the opposite of self absorbed. I have four children, a husband, family, and friends, and I am the last person I take care of.

In a minor digression, I would like to note that the non-apology that offends me the most is "Sorry you feel that way."

See, it disguises itself as an apology - there's that word, sorry, which is used to convey apology or sympathy. Yet neither is actually intended. Instead there is, at best, grief that the other person does not agree with you. The tone of voice usually heard when it is used actually leads to it being a null if not a substitute for an epithet.

For me, it beats out (barely) the southernism, "bless your (or his or her) heart." Both are almost always code, meant to make it unseemly to react to the insult or attack it accompanies. They are the pro forma indicators of a passive aggressive statement.

392 leftynyc  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:05:48pm

re: #312 ProGunLiberal

Sounds like the corpulent little sterile shit is projecting.

No idea if he's sterile (which would be the closest thing I could think of that would prove the existence of G-d). The viagra is for impotence.

393 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:06:32pm

Gotta run. Have a great day!

394 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:06:56pm

re: #382 JRCMYP

As a feminist, a mother, an Obama-supporter and someone who has alternatively put my career on hold and pursued it while staying home with my children, Rosen needs to back away from this. Ann Romney is not in your typical American tax-bracket, and I agree she is very likely out of touch with the struggles of many American women, but this is a no-win argument. Being rich does not preclude you from being sympathetic to other's struggles. And unless someone can tell me what's going on in Ann Romney's head, this is a bad line of reasoning to pursue an "out of touch" argument about Mitt Romney. Ann doesn't make policy. But Mitt has. Leave his wife out of it even if he doesn't.

1. Rosen apologized

2. Ann Romney made a tweet. She put herself out there for comment.

3. Ann Romney said she does not feel wealthy. That's what we have from her head.

395 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:08:08pm

Fox News Responds To Newt’s Attacks

Fox News has responded to Newt Gingrich’s recent tirade against the conservative cable network. After Gingrich said “Fox has been for Romney all the way through,” a spokeswoman for the network told Yahoo! News: “This is nothing other than Newt auditioning for a windfall of a gig at CNN–that’s the kind of man he is. Not to mention, he’s still bitter about the fact that we terminated his contributor contract.”

396 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:08:56pm

re: #391 kirkspencer

In a minor digression, I would like to note that the non-apology that offends me the most is "Sorry you feel that way."

See, it disguises itself as an apology - there's that word, sorry, which is used to convey apology or sympathy. Yet neither is actually intended. Instead there is, at best, grief that the other person does not agree with you. The tone of voice usually heard when it is used actually leads to it being a null if not a substitute for an epithet.

For me, it beats out (barely) the southernism, "bless your (or his or her) heart." Both are almost always code, meant to make it unseemly to react to the insult or attack it accompanies. They are the pro forma indicators of a passive aggressive statement.

I live in the south and I have been given the "bless your heart" so that's not my intent. You believe because I choose not to become a political activist against abortion I lack empathy. I truly am sorry that is what you believe. No offense intended in my "non apology"

397 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:11:08pm

re: #392 leftynyc

Considering he hasn't had children up to now, and he has gone through 3 wives, I think it is plausible.

398 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:11:34pm

re: #395 Lidane

Fox News Responds To Newt’s Attacks

The kind of man he is? Newt's no different from the other gas bags at Fox News. The only difference he is that he doesn't work for them anymore.

399 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:11:49pm

re: #346 CSUH2001

I turned on the news today and saw the comments about Mrs. Romney and as a stay at home mom, I was insulted. My children are well behaved honor students and it is not easy. Do not tell me I don't work. And no I am not looking for credit for doing what I am supposed to do.

Why were you insulted at something Hilary Rosen didn't say? She didn't say one word critical of stay at home mothers. She criticized Mitt Romney for trying to use his wife Ann to say he understood the plight of young mothers; Rosen's clear point is that painting Ann Romney as being representative of the average young American mother was absurd and deliberately deceptive.

400 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:12:36pm

re: #397 ProGunLiberal

Considering he hasn't had children up to now, and he has gone through 3 wives, I think it is plausible.

It's possible, but I think what's more likely is he doesn't want kids and he uses birth control which is his right and why he looked like such an asshole calling Sandra Fluke a slut because there's no doubt in my mind that Rush uses a ton of BC.

401 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:13:47pm

re: #396 CSUH2001

I live in the south and I have been given the "bless your heart" so that's not my intent. You believe because I choose not to become a political activist against abortion I lack empathy. I truly am sorry that is what you believe. No offense intended in my "non apology"

No, I do not believe any such thing. I neither said nor implied such.

What I meant, and largely what I said, is that the phrase "sorry you feel that way" is a non-apology. That of the many non-apologies out there, it irritates me the most due to its misdirection and suppressive effect on counter-statements.

402 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:13:56pm

The Nation

National Review Drops Another Racist Writer

...

But the fact that his speech came to Lowry’s attention just after the Derbyshire brouhaha is coincidental, not the result of some racist-seeking witch-hunt, as some hysterical right wing bloggers argued. Weissberg’s speech was reported in Searchlight Magazine, an anti-racist journal, as part of a dispatch on the conference as a whole. That report was picked up by the conservative blog Little Green Footballs.

...

Conservative blog? Time for a Tweet...

403 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:15:50pm

re: #402 Gus

The Nation

National Review Drops Another Racist Writer

Conservative blog? Time for a Tweet...

Heh. That should get the Twitter wars up and running.

404 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:16:06pm
That report was picked up by the conservative blog Little Green Footballs.

We... huh? Well, okay. Guess I'll head on back to the Great Orange Satan, then.

405 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:16:39pm

re: #402 Gus

The Nation

National Review Drops Another Racist Writer

Conservative blog? Time for a Tweet...

Will there be anyone left when they get rid of all the bigots? My goodness!!

406 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:17:29pm

re: #403 Lidane

Heh. That should get the Twitter wars up and running.

Sent him this:

407 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:17:58pm

re: #401 kirkspencer

No, I do not believe any such thing. I neither said nor implied such.

What I meant, and largely what I said, is that the phrase "sorry you feel that way" is a non-apology. That of the many non-apologies out there, it irritates me the most due to its misdirection and suppressive effect on counter-statements.

My intention in being here is to be respectful, so I can only say it wasn't my intent.

408 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:18:04pm

re: #402 Gus

The Nation

National Review Drops Another Racist Writer

Conservative blog? Time for a Tweet...

Yep. Ours is a liberal blog. ;)

409 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:18:25pm

re: #408 Johnny Derp

Yep. Ours is a liberal blog. ;)

evolution baby.

410 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:19:00pm

re: #402 Gus

The Nation

National Review Drops Another Racist Writer

Conservative blog? Time for a Tweet...

Hey, wait -- according to the Atlantic:

...a more recent development is that left-wing blog Little Green Footballs started haranguing National Review...

Got 'em right where I want 'em ... totally confused.

411 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:19:14pm

re: #408 Johnny Derp

Yep. Ours is a liberal blog. ;)

Wiki currently describes us as "Independent" and "center-left".

412 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:19:26pm

re: #327 Charles Johnson

And by the way:

[Embedded content]

That's some military-spec derp there.

Fucking idiots...

413 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:19:35pm

re: #406 Gus

Sent him this:

It saddens me that part of the reason LGF is left of center is because the center has moved.

414 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:19:58pm

re: #411 Gus

Wiki currently describes us as "Independent" and "center-left".

Which means that this place is too conservative for the moonbats and too liberal for the wingnuts. Sounds about right.

415 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:20:02pm

re: #411 Gus

Yep, indepedent liberal blog.

416 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:21:06pm

Peronist progressives!

417 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:21:13pm

Jokers to the left of me, clowns to the right.

418 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:21:17pm

re: #411 Gus

Wiki currently describes us as "Independent" and "center-left".

I haven't checked in a while, but I know that where LGF fell on the spectrum at least used to be a fairly consistent point of discussion and seemed to change around regularly.

419 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:22:15pm

re: #407 CSUH2001

My intention in being here is to be respectful, so I can only say it wasn't my intent.

Accepted. And in fact the reason I pointed it out is because I know I'm not alone, and you may be giving signals you did not intend.

"Sorry" to apologize for your error. "Sorry" to express sympathy. "Sorry you feel that way" grates.

420 Origuy  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:22:22pm

Ann Romney did not raise her children while dealing with cancer and MS. Her youngest child, Craig, was born in 1981. Her MS was diagnosed in 1998, when Craig was about 17. Still living at home, no doubt, but not, presumably, taking much more "raising". Her breast cancer was diagnosed in 2008, when all of their sons were adults.

421 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:22:35pm

It's all about perspective though. Among certain friends, I'm a Commie and among others I'm a moderate. I self identify as a traditional liberal for what it's worth.

422 justaminute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:24:09pm

I don't get really worked up over Ann Romney. She was sitting up in the passenger seat when her husband put the dog, Sheamus, up on the top of the car for that drive to Canada.

423 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:24:49pm

Trying to pigeonhole political views, especially of a group of people, into left and right and center really has limited value. It's not even clear what those mean in many cases.

424 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:24:56pm
425 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:25:05pm

re: #419 kirkspencer

Accepted. And in fact the reason I pointed it out is because I know I'm not alone, and you may be giving signals you did not intend.

"Sorry" to apologize for your error. "Sorry" to express sympathy. "Sorry you feel that way" grates.

Okay we sound silly now.

426 simoom  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:25:09pm

Sheesh, abcnews.com has this as their main story with a whole bunch of further articles on it.

What's crazy about this is, where exactly is the oxygen for this being newsworthy coming from?

- A CNN contributor says something about Ann Romney which quickly generates blog outrage on the right.

- The Romney campaign has Ann Romney create a twitter account and post her first ever tweet to address that CNN contributor and tee up the next day's outrage (with press conferences and interviews planned to drive it).

- Even though the CNN contributor has no current affiliation with the DNC or the Obama Campaign, both groups still denounce the comment from multiple sources (axelrod, messina, michelle obama, wasserman schultz, etc).

So what you have is a CNN pundit on one side, and everyone else on the other. You'd think there'd be very little to report on there, but apparently the new rule is that the political parties are now responsible for what paid partisans say on cable news panels? Does that mean we'll next have a news cycle dominated by Mitt Romney having to answer for whatever offhand things Dana Loesch or Eric Erikson say? Somehow I doubt it.

427 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:25:32pm

re: #423 Simply Sarah

Trying to pigeonhole political views, especially of a group of people, into left and right and center really has limited value. It's not even clear what those mean in many cases.

It's still not a "conservative blog."

428 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:26:44pm

re: #423 Simply Sarah

Trying to pigeonhole political views, especially of a group of people, into left and right and center really has limited value. It's not even clear what those mean in many cases.

That is something I can agree with but it can't be ignored this blogs influence on the Bush election and the fact that the owner really regrets it.

429 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:26:47pm

re: #427 Gus

It's still not a "conservative blog."

Under what currently qualifies as conservative in American political discourse? No, it most certainly is not.

430 MittDoesNotCompute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:27:18pm

re: #357 Darth Vader Gargoyle

That's what we call the Magical Balance Fairy. Magic.

Otherwise known as "pulling stuff out of your ass"...

431 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:27:20pm

re: #426 simoom

Nope. It's just a desperate attempt by the GOP to shift focus away from their terrible policies towards women.

And they're being massive hypocrites by making Ann Romney make political statements to support her husband and then acting like she's being attacked personally.

432 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:27:29pm

Politically idiosyncratic?

433 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:28:09pm

re: #423 Simply Sarah

Trying to pigeonhole political views, especially of a group of people, into left and right and center really has limited value. It's not even clear what those mean in many cases.

True, but calling this place a conservative blog is hilariously off-base.

If nothing else, The Nation calling LGF a conservative blog should get the Twitter wars running for a while, and might make a few RWNJ bloggers feel obligated to tell the world how much they hate Charles and how much we all suck. Or something. It would make for a few laughs.

434 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:28:55pm

re: #423 Simply Sarah

Trying to pigeonhole political views, especially of a group of people, into left and right and center really has limited value. It's not even clear what those mean in many cases.

It's pretty clear in the context of the US political discourse. It's as correct to call LGF a liberal blog as it is correct to call Dan Riehl's blog conservative.

435 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:29:06pm

re: #433 Lidane

True, but calling this place a conservative blog is hilariously off-base.

If nothing else, The Nation calling LGF a conservative blog should get the Twitter wars running for a while, and might make a few RWNJ bloggers feel obligated to tell the world how much they hate Charles and how much we all suck. Or something. It would make for a few laughs.

LGF IS NOT CONSERVATIVIE, IT IS MARXIST ALINSKY! ACORN! RAGE!

436 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:29:45pm

Gar.

437 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:30:19pm

re: #433 Lidane

The Nation only called it because the author didn't check it in years. It still happens in numerous comments on liberal sites, but these comments are usually corrected by others.

438 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:30:20pm
439 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:30:39pm

Fumbles.

440 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:30:42pm

re: #431 Obdicut

Nope. It's just a desperate attempt by the GOP to shift focus away from their terrible policies towards women.

And they're being massive hypocrites by making Ann Romney make political statements to support her husband and then acting like she's being attacked personally.

It also gave us a great joke, when Ann Romney's telling the press that it was her choice to be a stay-at-home mom and people should respect that, when the GOP's out there saying the only choice that matters is that of employers.

441 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:30:57pm

re: #438 Gus

Heh, just as I thought :P

442 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:31:57pm

re: #414 Lidane

Stuck in the middle... clowns on the left, jokers on the right.

Now, where's Mr. Blonde... /////

443 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:32:34pm

Huh. Happy 4000 updings to me.

Do I get to give a teary Oscar speech or something?

444 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:32:38pm

re: #434 Johnny Derp

It's pretty clear in the context of the US political discourse. It's as correct to call LGF a liberal blog as it is correct to call Dan Riehl's blog conservative.

On some things, sure. But on others it's far more messy. And on others still is should be far more messy than it actually is. Even without drilling down to more detailed and specific topics, things like social, economic, and international policy really exist on their own axes.

445 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:32:43pm

re: #442 lawhawk

Stuck in the middle... clowns on the left, jokers on the right.

Now, where's Mr. Blonde... ///

Freeing Willy.

446 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:34:08pm

re: #435 HappyWarrior

LGF IS NOT CONSERVATIVIE, IT IS MARXIST ALINSKY! ACORN! RAGE!

Bunch of pro-Jihadist turncoats. They even tolerate Muslims posting there now.

447 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:34:29pm

re: #428 CSUH2001

That is something I can agree with but it can't be ignored this blogs influence on the Bush election and the fact that the owner really regrets it.

I never said I "really regret" my influence on Bush's election, if I had any. I don't know where you got that information - it's not true.

I did say I regret voting for McCain/Palin, though.

448 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:34:40pm

re: #351 CSUH2001

I never called myself apathetic. I was responding to being called apathetic. Yes I do read political blogs from time to time. I thought this thread would be about the comments about Romney's wife, it turned into abortion.

Interesting that you were the first one to mention abortion in this thread.

449 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:35:33pm

re: #446 CuriousLurker

Bunch of pro-Jihadist turncoats. They even tolerate Muslims posting there now.

Transnational-Totalitarian-Peronist-Progressive-Jihadist-Atheist-Environazi-Democrat-Turncoats!!!!!!

450 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:35:41pm

re: #446 CuriousLurker

Bunch of pro-Jihadist turncoats. They even tolerate Muslims posting there now.

Creeping Shariah. How are you today CL?

451 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:35:54pm

re: #442 lawhawk

Stuck in the middle... clowns on the left, jokers on the right.

Now, where's Mr. Blonde... ///

452 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:36:12pm

re: #449 Gus

Transnational-Totalitarian-Peronist-Progressive-Jihadist-Atheist-Environazi-Democrat-Turncoats!!!

Bonus points for Peronist.

453 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:37:14pm

re: #444 Simply Sarah

LGF is first and foremost Charles, and then the rest of us. I know Charles doesn't like to be pigeonholed, but from his comments and postings I have an informed impression that he holds liberal views on a whole host of issues, not only the social domestic ones.

That there is sometimes disagreement in the comments on some issues (foreign policy etc.) doesn't make LGF a non-liberal blog. There's no consensus on lots of issues among liberals. So what? They're still liberals.

454 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:37:27pm

re: #446 CuriousLurker

Bunch of pro-Jihadist turncoats. They even tolerate Muslims posting there now.

Only if the Muslims bring offerings of cupcakes and doughnuts.

Maybe fine chocolates?

455 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:38:01pm

re: #450 HappyWarrior

Creeping Shariah. How are you today CL?

I'm well. How about yourself?

456 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:38:08pm

re: #447 Charles Johnson

I never said I "really regret" my influence on Bush's election, if I had any. I don't know where you got that information - it's not true.

I did say I regret voting for McCain/Palin, though.

Thanks for the clarification.

457 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:38:32pm

re: #453 Johnny Derp

LGF is first and foremost Charles, and then the rest of us. I know Charles doesn't like to be pigeonholed, but from his comments and postings I have an informed impression that he holds liberal views on a whole host of issues, not only the social domestic ones.

That there is sometimes disagreement in the comments on some issues (foreign policy etc.) doesn't make LGF a non-liberal blog. There's no consensus on lots of issues among liberals. So what? They're still liberals.

Guess that's it. LGF is whatever Charles would prefer to call it which would be: liberal.

458 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:38:44pm

re: #454 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Only if the muslims bring offerings of cupcakes and doughnuts.

Maybe fine chocolates?

One word, naan bread. I know it's not exclusive to Muslims but man is that bread good.

459 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:39:19pm

re: #454 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Only if the Muslims bring offerings of cupcakes and doughnuts.

Maybe fine chocolates?

Well, we mostly do martyr cookies, but I guess we could also do martyr cupcakes & doughnuts. Chocolate, yes!

460 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:39:33pm

re: #455 CuriousLurker

I'm well. How about yourself?

Same. Excited for the weekend. Seeing a concert for an Icelandic folk -rock band Saturday evening. Should be fun.

461 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:39:46pm

re: #448 Sionainn

Interesting that you were the first one to mention abortion in this thread.

It was implied. And towards the end of the thread it was said to me that it is dishonest to attempt to have a discussion of women while neglecting abortion.

462 justaminute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:39:46pm

I find it amusing that the conservative sites from their posts seem to believe that this dust up with Ann Romney will turn women to Republicans. Of course, Republicans thought after the 2008 lost of Hilary Clinton that women would flock to them with the VP nomination of Sarah Palin too. Boy were they disappointed.

463 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:40:49pm

re: #453 Johnny Derp

LGF is first and foremost Charles, and then the rest of us. I know Charles doesn't like to be pigeonholed, but from his comments and postings I have an informed impression that he holds liberal views on a whole host of issues, not only the social domestic ones.

That there is sometimes disagreement in the comments on some issues (foreign policy etc.) doesn't make LGF a non-liberal blog. There's no consensus on lots of issues among liberals. So what? They're still liberals.

Oh, agreed. I just don't always know how to apply the term "liberal" outside of certain areas. I sort of go my own way with definitions and tend to treat the term in the older sense of being economically right of centre to maybe slightly left of centre on good days. Yeah, I'm weird that way.

464 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:40:52pm

re: #462 justaminute

I find it amusing that the conservative sites from their posts seem to believe that this dust up with Ann Romney will turn women to Republicans. Of course, Republicans thought after the 2008 lost of Hilary Clinton that women would flock to them with the VP nomination of Sarah Palin too. Boy were they disappointed.

Let me guess, it's being dubbed the "war on housewives" or some such bunk, right?

465 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:40:52pm

re: #460 HappyWarrior

Same. Excited for the weekend. Seeing a concert for an Icelandic folk -rock band Saturday evening. Should be fun.

Cool, you'll have to tell us about it next week. Take some photos and make a page!

466 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:40:53pm

re: #457 Gus

Guess that's it. LGF is whatever Charles would prefer to call it which would be: liberal.

Again, to repeat, I remember Charles' comments to the effect that he doesn't like when journalists try to label his blog. So I'm not sure he himself would describe it this way. (He's reading and can correct at any time). However self-identification is not necessary for political classification. I judge by the sum of positions.

467 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:41:57pm

re: #465 CuriousLurker

Cool, you'll have to tell us about it next week. Take some photos and make a page!

This venue doesn't allow photographing unfortunately. But yeah I can't wait. And it's free too.

468 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:42:07pm

re: #461 CSUH2001

It was implied.

No. You felt it was implied. It wasn't. "Choice" is not just having abortions. It's also, at minimal, about having access to birth control, another thing the GOP has pushed back on.

You were the one who raised the topic of abortion. Don't complain about a topic you raised.

469 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:42:26pm

re: #466 Johnny Derp

Again, to repeat, I remember Charles' comments to the effect that he doesn't like when journalists try to label his blog. So I'm not sure he himself would describe it this way. (He's reading and can correct at any time). However self-identification is not necessary for political classification. I judge by the sum of positions.

I'm fine with idiosyncratic. You will recall my babbling about cap and trade. ;)

470 Randall Gross  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:43:14pm
471 allegro  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:43:54pm

re: #462 justaminute

I find it amusing that the conservative sites from their posts seem to believe that this dust up with Ann Romney will turn women to Republicans. Of course, Republicans thought after the 2008 lost of Hilary Clinton that women would flock to them with the VP nomination of Sarah Palin too. Boy were they disappointed.

It is the same basis for Mitt to believe that he can ask his wife about what's important to women and thus have insight into What Women Want as if by being in possession of girlie bits we are thus all interchangeable. They really are clueless that women are PEOPLE.

472 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:43:58pm

re: #464 Targetpractice

Let me guess, it's being dubbed the "war on housewives" or some such bunk, right?

'War on moms', I think, was the idiotic phrasing.

473 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:44:12pm

re: #469 Gus

I'm fine with idiosyncratic. You will recall my babbling about cap and trade. ;)

And anonymous/Manning/BB. Man, did that ever get under your skin. You never did explain the t-shirt thing to me...

474 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:44:26pm

re: #462 justaminute

I find it amusing that the conservative sites from their posts seem to believe that this dust up with Ann Romney will turn women to Republicans. Of course, Republicans thought after the 2008 lost of Hilary Clinton that women would flock to them with the VP nomination of Sarah Palin too. Boy were they disappointed.

Oh, it's not just the sites. I've got some friends who were practically screaming in this morning's emails how this was going to offend all the stay-at-home moms and shift support to Romney.

I disagreed somewhat with leftynyc about the insistence on selecting a woman for VP, but after today I think he may be right. Female, the more conservative the better, with at least some time on the national political stage.

I actually wonder if Bachmann is on their list.

475 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:44:44pm

re: #473 CuriousLurker

And anonymous/Manning/BB. Man, did that ever get under your skin. You never did explain the t-shirt thing to me...

T-shirt thing?

476 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:44:54pm

re: #461 CSUH2001

It was implied. And towards the end of the thread it was said to me that it is dishonest to attempt to have a discussion of women while neglecting abortion.

If you're talking about my comments you need to do a re-read. "Disingenuous" does not mean "dishonest".

477 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:45:18pm

re: #469 Gus

I'm fine with idiosyncratic. You will recall my babbling about cap and trade. ;)

What it certainly isn't is "far left". That one is absurdly hilarious.

478 dragonath  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:45:49pm

re: #470 Randall Gross

Gay icebergs are the biggest threats to humanity?

479 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:46:02pm

re: #477 Johnny Derp

What it certainly isn't is "far left". That one is absurdly hilarious.

I don't even consider DailyKos to be far left.

480 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:46:23pm

Shameless music link but I saw these sisters recently in concert. Good stuff. This is the kind of country sound I dig.
481 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:46:51pm

re: #479 Gus

I don't even consider DailyKos to be far left.

I'm not sure most Americans would recognize the actual far left if it bit them.

482 HappyWarrior  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:47:05pm

re: #481 Simply Sarah

I'm not sure most Americans would recognize the actual far left if it bit them.

Absolutely.

483 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:47:06pm

re: #479 Gus

I don't even consider DailyKos to be far left.

It's a continuum. Plenty of far left elements at DK, but plenty of moderates too.

484 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:47:58pm

re: #472 erik_t

'War on moms', I think, was the idiotic phrasing.

Must be because we libs don't have real moms to love & appreciate, what with us all being alien demon spawn... //

485 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:48:01pm

re: #479 Gus

I don't even consider DailyKos to be far left.

It's not, despite all the RWNJ bleating to the contrary. Partisan Democrat, yes. Far left? Hardly.

Markos has made it clear in the past that he cares about winning elections, not adherence to some far left ideological purity list. He'll support anyone who can win and has a (D) after their name.

486 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:48:31pm

Markos = former Republican. ;)

487 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:48:36pm

re: #483 Johnny Derp

It's a continuum. Plenty of far left elements at DK, but plenty of moderates to.

I would consider Counterpunch or Indymedia far-left. Although lots of weird right wingish type conspiracy theories wind up there sometiems.

488 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:48:55pm

re: #481 Simply Sarah

I'm not sure most Americans would recognize the actual far left if it bit them.

FDL?

489 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:49:03pm

re: #486 Johnny Derp

Markos = former Republican. ;)

Silence!

//

490 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:49:18pm

re: #488 blueraven

FDL?

That and DU.

491 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:49:41pm

re: #475 Gus

T-shirt thing?

Yeah, there was some joke about you & a t-shirt. I asked you aout it at the time and you said something to the effect that it was just a thing, but you never explained it. CuriousLurker is always curious, so it still bugs me that I don't know, heh.

492 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:50:10pm

DU BTW is far left, but hardly the farthest fringe. I mean, it's still a Democratic Underground.

493 erik_t  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:50:20pm

re: #484 CuriousLurker

Must be because we libs don't have real moms to love & appreciate, what with us all being alien demon spawn... //

Adopted, no doubt.

(spits)

494 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:50:29pm

re: #471 allegro

It is the same basis for Mitt to believe that he can ask his wife about what's important to women and thus have insight into What Women Want as if by being in possession of girlie bits we are thus all interchangeable. They really are clueless that women are PEOPLE.

I was pretty sure that was made clear when they were all screaming about the cost of contraceptives and implying that a woman needed to pop The Pill every time she had sex.

495 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:50:41pm

re: #491 CuriousLurker

Yeah, there was some joke about you & a t-shirt. I asked you aout it at the time and you said something to the effect that it was just a thing, but you never explained it. CuriousLurker is always curious, so it still bugs me that I don't know, heh.

Darn. Now that's going to bug me. I forgot.

496 Lidane  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:50:51pm

re: #486 Johnny Derp

Markos = former Republican. ;)

So is John Cole. I think that's why I like Balloon Juice so much. He has no problem just ripping into people. It's glorious.

497 JRCMYP  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:51:26pm

re: #394 wrenchwench

1. Rosen apologized

2. Ann Romney made a tweet. She put herself out there for comment.

3. Ann Romney said she does not feel wealthy. That's what we have from her head.

I think she should be off limits unless she makes an actual statement that has some substance to it. A throw away tweet in response to a misconstrued statement about her is not enough to claim that she is engaged in any kind of meaningful conversation about what "women want" today or from their President. And what does "not feeling wealthy" tell us about her views on other women or women's rights? Nothing. I think this is a no-win argument and a slippery slope. By all accounts Ann Romney is a sympathetic person and making hay about *her* is a bad idea.

498 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:51:38pm

re: #493 erik_t

Adopted, no doubt.

(spits)

By lesbians probably. //

499 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:51:41pm

re: #491 CuriousLurker

Yeah, there was some joke about you & a t-shirt. I asked you aout it at the time and you said something to the effect that it was just a thing, but you never explained it. CuriousLurker is always curious, so it still bugs me that I don't know, heh.

I remember it being a thing, but I don't remember what thing. It was extra large, though.

500 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:51:43pm

re: #488 blueraven

FDL?

I dunno. To me, the actual far left would basically sound like Marx or Lenin at their most socialist/Communist. Revolution, dictatorship of the proletariat, etc.

501 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:52:23pm

re: #500 Simply Sarah

I dunno. To me, the actual far left would basically sound like Marx or Lenin at their most socialist/Communist. Revolution, dictatorship of the proletariat, etc.

Continuum. The far far left. The moderate far left. The conservative far left. ;)

502 makeitstop  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:52:54pm

re: #480 HappyWarrior

[Embedded content]
Shameless music link but I saw these sisters recently in concert. Good stuff. This is the kind of country sound I dig.

Nothing sounds better vocally than siblings in close two-part harmony. It's like one voice singing two parts.

They sound like a female equivalent of the Everly Brothers. Good stuff.

504 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:53:02pm

re: #497 JRCMYP

I think she should be off limits unless she makes an actual statement that has some substance to it. A throw away tweet in response to a misconstrued statement about her is not enough to claim that she is engaged in any kind of meaningful conversation about what "women want" today or from their President. And what does "not feeling wealthy" tell us about her views on other women or women's rights? Nothing. I think this is a no-win argument and a slippery slope. By all accounts Ann Romney is a sympathetic person and making hay about *her* is a bad idea.

It's really about Mitt. He said he knows what women feel is important because Ann told him.

505 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:53:52pm

re: #499 wrenchwench

I remember it being a thing, but I don't remember what thing. It was extra large, though.

Are you calling me fat?!

//

506 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:54:16pm

re: #501 Johnny Derp

Continuum. The far far left. The moderate far left. The conservative far left. ;)

Look, you can't really be far left without at least wanting to seize the means of production.
/

507 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:54:46pm

re: #499 wrenchwench

I remember it being a thing, but I don't remember what thing. It was extra large, though.

Yes! Extra large. Gus? Does that ring any bells?

508 Charles Johnson  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:54:57pm

re: #503 Lidane

Just finished a post about that, move on up...

509 allegro  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:55:21pm

re: #497 JRCMYP

I think she should be off limits unless she makes an actual statement that has some substance to it. A throw away tweet in response to a misconstrued statement about her is not enough to claim that she is engaged in any kind of meaningful conversation about what "women want" today or from their President. And what does "not feeling wealthy" tell us about her views on other women or women's rights? Nothing. I think this is a no-win argument and a slippery slope. By all accounts Ann Romney is a sympathetic person and making hay about *her* is a bad idea.

Romney, the man who wants to be our next president, made her opinions meaningful when he said that it was those opinions that he listens to to form his potential policy positions with regard to women. He discounts the very real Republican war on women because he says his wife tells him there is no such thing. This makes her engaged and her opinions rightful topics of conversation and his depending on this a rightful topic of criticism.

510 blueraven  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:56:22pm

re: #492 Johnny Derp

DU BTW is far left, but hardly the farthest fringe. I mean, it's still a Democratic Underground.

Conversely, you'll have a hard time finding a right leaning blog that has not devolved into crazytown.

re: #500 Simply Sarah

I dunno. To me, the actual far left would basically sound like Marx or Lenin at their most socialist/Communist. Revolution, dictatorship of the proletariat, etc.

I think there are so few of those that they are off the radar.

511 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:56:40pm

Revision at The Nation:

But the fact that his speech came to Lowry’s attention just after the Derbyshire brouhaha is coincidental, not the result of some racist-seeking witch-hunt, as some hysterical right wing bloggers argued. Weissberg’s speech was reported in Searchlight magazine, an anti-racist journal, as part of a dispatch on the conference as a whole. That report was picked up by the blog Little Green Footballs.

Much better. I used to read The Nation in print form back in the old days. Christopher Hitchens of course was a writer for The Nation.

512 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:57:15pm

Think Charlie Piece said all I have to say on this subject:

The Ann Romney Factor: Nobody Believes Her 'Struggle'

513 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:57:45pm

re: #507 CuriousLurker

Yes! Extra large. Gus? Does that ring any bells?

Let me search. It could have been while I was inebriated. Late in the evening?

514 makeitstop  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:57:51pm

re: #503 Lidane

George Zimmerman court affidavit: 'Zimmerman confronted Martin'

This is interesting:

The affidavit goes on to say that "Zimmerman disregarded the police dispatcher" who told him to stop, and "continued to follow Martin who was trying to return to his home."

We were discussing this aspect of the story yesterday. I've always believed that Zimmerman disregarding the dispatcher would be a key part of the case against him. Looks like the prosecution thinks it's pretty key, too.

515 dragonath  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:57:56pm

re: #512 Targetpractice

Kind of remids me of that time in 2008 when Lady De Rothschild said Obama was a elitist.

516 justaminute  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:58:27pm

re: #474 kirkspencer

Oh, it's not just the sites. I've got some friends who were practically screaming in this morning's emails how this was going to offend all the stay-at-home moms and shift support to Romney.

I disagreed somewhat with leftynyc about the insistence on selecting a woman for VP, but after today I think he may be right. Female, the more conservative the better, with at least some time on the national political stage.

I actually wonder if Bachmann is on their list.

Well, since Ann was comparing how tough it was for her to compete with her horse in dressage events. I think she lost a lot of her stay at home mom appeal. She is not that far from her husband in his statements, really. Probably that is why she sticks to Fox news. They need to get her out of her comfort zone for some interviews.

517 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:59:11pm

re: #507 CuriousLurker

Yes! Extra large. Gus? Does that ring any bells?

Nada and I'm drawing a blank. Give me a couple of days. :)

518 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:59:18pm

re: #513 Gus

Let me search. It could have been while I was inebriated. Late in the evening?

I dunno. I was staying away then 'cause everyone was so cranky about anonymous. I heard the t-shirt thing when things calmed down and I came back.

519 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:00:12pm

re: #517 Gus

Nada and I'm drawing a blank. Give me a couple of days. :)

Eh, don't bother searching then. It'll come back to you some day when you least expect it. ;)

520 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:00:58pm

re: #519 CuriousLurker

Eh, don't bother searching then. It'll come back to you some day when you least expect it. ;)

Yep. "Concrete. Sky. Pigeon. Now I remember!"

521 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:02:37pm

re: #517 Gus

Nada and I'm drawing a blank. Give me a couple of days. :)

The t-shirt joke was during OWS. I think there was supposed to be a target on that t-shirt.

522 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:03:39pm

re: #520 Gus

Yep. "Concrete. Sky. Pigeon. Now I remember!"

Explain, dammit! The curiosity is killin' me.

523 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:04:46pm

re: #522 CuriousLurker

Explain, dammit! The curiosity is killin' me.

Oh. You know how disassociated thoughts will lead to remembering something out of the blue. It might be while you're thinking about something completely unrelated.

524 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:05:34pm

re: #521 Johnny Derp

The t-shirt joke was during OWS. I think there was supposed to be a target on that t-shirt.

Hmm, I thought it was much earlier than that, like last year. Unlike the anonymous stuff, I was here (lurking) for most of the OWS stuff.

I could be wrong though.

525 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:06:44pm

re: #524 CuriousLurker

Hmm, I thought it was much earlier than that, like last year. Unlike the anonymous stuff, I was here (lurking) for most of the OWS stuff.

I could be wrong though.

Must be a recurring joke then.

526 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:06:58pm

re: #523 Gus

Oh. You know how disassociated thoughts will lead to remembering something out of the blue. It might be while you're thinking about something completely unrelated.

Ohhh, okay. I thought you'd actually remembered.

Gilda Radner voice: Never mind.

LOL

527 Gus  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:08:13pm

re: #525 Johnny Derp

Must be a recurring joke then.

Oh you mean "the shirt getting bigger" thing? I remember when I would start going into "wingnut relapse" in here someone would always tell me that my "shirt was getting bigger."

528 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:09:38pm

re: #527 Gus

Oh you mean "the shirt getting bigger" thing? I remember when I would start going into "wingnut relapse" in here someone would always tell me that my "shirt was getting bigger."

LOL, okayyy. Maybe that was it—someone must've told you you were going to need an extra-large t-shirt.

529 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:10:28pm

re: #527 Gus

Oh you mean "the shirt getting bigger" thing? I remember when I would start going into "wingnut relapse" in here someone would always tell me that my "shirt was getting bigger."

I dunno if the same joke, but I seem to remember an exchange with researchok about the t-shirt, and I think he continued the theme started by you, but then, it's all murky anyway. Could be searched for, I guess, but meh. ;)

530 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:10:58pm

re: #461 CSUH2001

It was implied. And towards the end of the thread it was said to me that it is dishonest to attempt to have a discussion of women while neglecting abortion.

It was not implied. You brought it up and then you tried to make all sorts of claims that you didn't understand how this topic turned in abortion. Yeah, I've seen this game played a few times before.

531 CuriousLurker  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:11:21pm

re: #529 Johnny Derp

I dunno if the same joke, but I seem to remember an exchange with researchok about the t-shirt, and I think he continued the theme started by you, but then, it's all murky anyway. Could be searched for, I guess, but meh. ;)

Mystery solved. I'll sleep better tonight.

532 CSUH2001  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:15:58pm

re: #530 Sionainn

It was not implied. You brought it up and then you tried to make all sorts of claims that you didn't understand how this topic turned in abortion. Yeah, I've seen this game played a few times before.

I can say it was, you say it wasn't, then again. We can do it all night long and never agree. It was implied.

533 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:16:48pm

re: #461 CSUH2001

It was implied. And towards the end of the thread it was said to me that it is dishonest to attempt to have a discussion of women while neglecting abortion.

I'll also point out that YOU were first person in this thread to make mention of "choice." See your post #5.

534 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:19:33pm

re: #532 CSUH2001

I can say it was, you say it wasn't, then again. We can do it all night long and never agree. It was implied.

Hunh. Let's see. You say it was "implied," I'm guessing because the word "choice" was used, and you think "choice" is a code word for "abortion," and you were the one who first used the words "choice" and "abortion" in this thread, but for some reason, you simply cannot understand how this thread possibly turned to abortion. Got it.

535 JRCMYP  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:23:39pm

re: #509 allegro

Romney, the man who wants to be our next president, made her opinions meaningful when he said that it was those opinions that he listens to to form his potential policy positions with regard to women. He discounts the very real Republican war on women because he says his wife tells him there is no such thing. This makes her engaged and her opinions rightful topics of conversation and his depending on this a rightful topic of criticism.

He punted, and that was dumb of him. Instead of bringing Ann Romney into it, it was a perfect opportunity for whomever wanted to press the issue to do so with Romney, and call him on the fact that he gave a pathetic answer. His answer, in fact, was so insulting, that making it the focus should have been what happened. Does he not care enough about women voters to talk to them directly and find out himself what their concerns are? I do not care what Ann Romney thinks. And because I don't care what Ann Romney thinks the idea that Mitt is using her as his intermediary to "women" makes his attitude even worse.

536 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 1:59:04pm

re: #33 BlazerBeav

Sorry Charles -

I fail to see how you can appropriately comment on the way Ann Romney raised her children, seeing as you have absolutely no insight on the matter. I understand that some of this outrage is indeed just being trumpeted for political reasons - but for you to dismiss the woman's efforts as a mother without any basis in fact seems wrong to me. It seems even more impressive that she did so while dealing with both cancer and MS.

Ann Romney's efforts as a mother have not been dismissed at all. You fail to acknowledge that she does not live the life of a common woman, who may have had to shoulder those burdens while at the same time having to work and lacking the benefits of wealth such as hired help.

This is not being held against her, Rosen merely scoffed at the idea that she represents the perspective of women's issues as a common woman.

537 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 2:00:50pm

re: #536 Kronocide

This is not being held against her, Rosen merely scoffed at the idea that she represents the perspective of women's issues as a common woman.

Let's go with 'economically average woman'. Ann Romney's not an aristocrat. All American women are commoners.

538 krypto  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 2:45:05pm

It's hardly new that the GOP/rightwing types would try this sort of fake outrage stunt to try to turn the tables on Democrats and hide far more serious significance of their own agenda.

But it still has to be amazing that anyone could claim that some comment about Ann Romney never having worked at a job matters more than GOP policies like trying to defund and shut down a major source of cancer screenings and health services for women.

539 Flavia  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:49:09pm

re: #6 Learned Mother of Zion

I never heard of this Hilary Rosen, but she's just as stupid and angry as the wingnuts who constantly attack Michelle Obama.

I think that it's more that her words were chosen poorly. She should have said, "never worked OUTSIDE THE HOME a day in her life". If Romney is using his wife as an "outreach coordinator (to borrow erik_t's brilliant observation about numbers)" for working women - as in, "working OUTSIDE THE HOME" women - then she should at least be one.

540 Mich-again  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:58:08pm
“Let’s declare peace in this phony war and go back to focus on the substance.”

NEVER!

541 6monkeys  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:52:14pm

re: #33 BlazerBeav

(finally delurking for the first time, since I actually have something to contribute)

I guess since I'm a stay-at-home mom to 6, was raised Mormon (though I'm agnostic now) AND I have multiple sclerosis, that makes me qualified to comment O_o

My main thought is: whatever. If a woman can be a stay-at-home mom, and has the desire to do it...great. If they want to but cannot, I feel badly and wish we, as a society, put our money where our mouths are and make it easier for single-income families. If a woman has the means to be a stay-at-home mom, but wants to work, that is great too. Whatever floats her, and the family's, boat.

My secondary thought is: Ann Romney is blessed in many, many ways. I'm not sure how many people know how unfairly expensive a disease MS is. I take what is called a "disease modifying drug" which, if it works, will slow down the progression of the disease. There are 5 different ones to choose from, all injections. They each have about a 30% chance of working (so, a 70% chance it will not do what it is supposed to do). I recently had to switch to a different drug because the first was not working for me. Oh, and the cost of these drugs? About $36,000 a year ($3,000 a month. I joke that I'm injecting myself with liquid gold). That is ONE medication. I take four more medications on a daily basis. At a cost of an additional $600 a month. And, believe it or not, I hate taking medication so I have resisted ones that my neurologist recommends. Thank goodness I live in NY where the health insurance standards are high!

Not only does Mrs. Romney not have to worry about the cost of her medication, or her therapies (I would adore it if I could do horseback riding therapy!), but she also does not have to worry about lost wages due to her illness. I began a relapse around Thanksgiving of 2011. Since it was the Holidays, and I was nearing the end of my first semester of college, I ignored my symptoms as much as possible. I pushed through it...until after the New Year. I hit a wall and pretty much fell apart. I ended up needing to have a steroid treatment to try to stop the damage that the relapse was causing. To make a long story (slightly) short, due to a reaction I had to the steroid treatment, I had to have my husband rush home from work because I was home alone with our youngest (she is almost 3) and I was fighting to not pass out. It was a week before he was able to go back to work, and weeks before I could do more than the basic child care responsibilities. I went through a second steroid treatment in the last few weeks. Luckily this time I'm recovering easier.

My husband has used almost all of his paid time off for this year already. He has applied, and been approved, for FMLA through his work so it will not count against him if he needs to miss work in order to care for me or the kids. We are also blessed that his employer was very willing to let him change his work hours so that he gets home early enough to make dinner for the family.

I consider myself extremely blessed to have access to medication, a great neurologist, a wonderful husband who takes care of me when I need it, and his great employer who is very understanding. And, we have these blessings on a yearly income that is equivalent to what Mitt Romney earns every 18 HOURS.

I do not begrudge him his money. I begrudge his lack of empathy for the thousands of others who fight this miserable disease.

542 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 4:59:54pm

re: #541 6monkeys

Welcome hatchling.

since I actually have something to contribute

The lack of such doesn't stop the rest of us. I'd like to hear from you more often. You sound like a courageous, caring woman.

543 Sionainn  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 5:22:43pm

re: #542 wrenchwench

Welcome hatchling.

The lack of such doesn't stop the rest of us. I'd like to hear from you more often. You sound like a courageous, caring woman.

re: #541 6monkeys

(finally delurking for the first time, since I actually have something to contribute)

I guess since I'm a stay-at-home mom to 6, was raised Mormon (though I'm agnostic now) AND I have multiple sclerosis, that makes me qualified to comment O_o

My main thought is: whatever. If a woman can be a stay-at-home mom, and has the desire to do it...great. If they want to but cannot, I feel badly and wish we, as a society, put our money where our mouths are and make it easier for single-income families. If a woman has the means to be a stay-at-home mom, but wants to work, that is great too. Whatever floats her, and the family's, boat.

My secondary thought is: Ann Romney is blessed in many, many ways. I'm not sure how many people know how unfairly expensive a disease MS is. I take what is called a "disease modifying drug" which, if it works, will slow down the progression of the disease. There are 5 different ones to choose from, all injections. They each have about a 30% chance of working (so, a 70% chance it will not do what it is supposed to do). I recently had to switch to a different drug because the first was not working for me. Oh, and the cost of these drugs? About $36,000 a year ($3,000 a month. I joke that I'm injecting myself with liquid gold). That is ONE medication. I take four more medications on a daily basis. At a cost of an additional $600 a month. And, believe it or not, I hate taking medication so I have resisted ones that my neurologist recommends. Thank goodness I live in NY where the health insurance standards are high!

Not only does Mrs. Romney not have to worry about the cost of her medication, or her therapies (I would adore it if I could do horseback riding therapy!), but she also does not have to worry about lost wages due to her illness. I began a relapse around Thanksgiving of 2011. Since it was the Holidays, and I was nearing the end of my first semester of college, I ignored my symptoms as much as possible. I pushed through it...until after the New Year. I hit a wall and pretty much fell apart. I ended up needing to have a steroid treatment to try to stop the damage that the relapse was causing. To make a long story (slightly) short, due to a reaction I had to the steroid treatment, I had to have my husband rush home from work because I was home alone with our youngest (she is almost 3) and I was fighting to not pass out. It was a week before he was able to go back to work, and weeks before I could do more than the basic child care responsibilities. I went through a second steroid treatment in the last few weeks. Luckily this time I'm recovering easier.

My husband has used almost all of his paid time off for this year already. He has applied, and been approved, for FMLA through his work so it will not count against him if he needs to miss work in order to care for me or the kids. We are also blessed that his employer was very willing to let him change his work hours so that he gets home early enough to make dinner for the family.

I consider myself extremely blessed to have access to medication, a great neurologist, a wonderful husband who takes care of me when I need it, and his great employer who is very understanding. And, we have these blessings on a yearly income that is equivalent to what Mitt Romney earns every 18 HOURS.

I do not begrudge him his money. I begrudge his lack of empathy for the thousands of others who fight this miserable disease.

Glad you decided to delurk. Excellent post.

544 The Mongoose  Thu, Apr 12, 2012 6:18:37pm

re: #541 6monkeys

I'm delurking for the first time in a while too.

Your story is impressive and inspiring. While I tend to oppose the single-payer health care model where I live, stories like yours certainly provide a valuable perspective on the issue (at least for me). I also wish you nothing but success in your fight against MS (a disease that has hit close to home for me as well).

That being said, I have to respectfully question your statement that Mitt Romney lacks empathy for people suffering with Multiple Sclerosis. My understanding is that he and his foundations have donated a great deal of money towards MS research and treatment over the years (over $200,000 this year already). Like him or not, it seems that he has been a positive force in the fight against MS.

545 6monkeys  Fri, Apr 13, 2012 3:05:03am

re: #544 The Mongoose

Thank you everyone for the warm welcome!

I do not want to take away from the support that Mr. Romney has given towards MS issues. I think anything that adds awareness and research is a good and positive thing. I also have heard that Mr. Romney is a very supportive husband, and I do not want to take that away from him, either. There are some who are not as supportive to a spouse with a chronic illness (yes, I'm looking at you, Newt!)

This is where I base my feeling that Romney lacks empathy to others who are fighting chronic illnesses:

I was pretty neutral about medical marijuana until I was diagnosed 2 years ago. Most of my lesions are in my spine, which are the type of MS lesions that cause pain issues. Right now I believe I am doing well, all things considered. MM is not a consideration for me, and I hope it never is. But, once I was diagnosed with a chronic illness, one that will very likely get progressively worse over time, I began to understand and sympathize with those who support MM. I am 35 years old right now...it is unknown what state my health will be in 10 years, or 20, or 30. Honestly, it is completely unknown what state my health will be on a day to day basis (not the most fun for a control freak like me LOL).

Romney's wife has a disease where MM can help elevate symptoms and improve quality of life. I am very glad that by all appearances Mrs. Romney is doing well, but I do think that Romney should be able to imagine if it were his wife who needed MM, and empathize with those who do. (These are just my rambling thoughts as someone who changed their view on MM because of purely selfish reasons)


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 weeks ago
Views: 463 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1