The Duggars and the Bizarre Regressive “Quiverfull” Movement

Misogynist theocrats’ TV show is pulled
Religion • Views: 44,576
Admitted sex offender Josh Duggar

The TLC channel announced today that they’re pulling “19 Kids and Counting” from their schedule, following the reports of Josh Duggar’s admitted sexual abuse of five underage girls. TLC’s statement was posted on Facebook:

Effective immediately, TLC has pulled all episodes of 19 Kids and Counting currently from the air. We are deeply saddened and troubled by this heartbreaking situation, and our thoughts and prayers are with the family and victims at this difficult time.

Maybe with this Duggar family story in the news, people will start paying attention to the deranged, dangerous “Quiverfull” cult that inspires them and many like-minded conservative Protestant Christians.

The Quiverfull movement promotes copious procreation, rejects all forms of contraception, and treats women basically as brood mares; second-class citizens who must be subservient to men, and whose primary purpose is childbearing.

The name “Quiverfull” refers to how cultists like the Duggars see their gigantic families: as arrows in a quiver — weapons in a religious war. It comes from an Old Testament verse:

Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD:
and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man;
so are children of the youth.
Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them:
they shall not be ashamed,
but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

It’s an explicitly theocratic and essentially racist doctrine; in an article for The Nation, author Kathryn Joyce described their obsessions this way :

Population is a preoccupation for many Quiverfull believers, who trade statistics on the falling white birthrate in European countries like Germany and France. Every ethnic conflict becomes evidence for their worldview: Muslim riots in France, Latino immigration in California, Sharia law in Canada. The motivations aren’t always racist, but the subtext of “race suicide” is often there.

If you’d like to learn more about Quiverfull, I recommend Joyce’s book Quiverfull: Inside the Christian Patriarchy Movement. I read it years ago, and have been watching the rise of groups like the Duggars with great trepidation as a result. The news that this reactionary theocratic cult spawns sexual predators should come as no surprise.

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499 comments

1 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 5:55:33pm
2 freetoken  May 22, 2015 5:56:18pm

Note that the Duggars, on their own FAQ page, deny being part of the Quiverfull movement.

But it’s a pretty weak denial given that they cling to most of the same practices.

Quiverfull proper perhaps some minor doctrinal differences with the Duggars - the former not believing in artificial means to overcome “barrenness”, which perhaps the Duggars are ok with.

3 freetoken  May 22, 2015 6:00:02pm

Lots of cultists trying to defend the Duggar family online.

How in denial they are.

4 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 6:00:44pm
5 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 6:03:58pm

re: #2 freetoken

Note that the Duggars, on their own FAQ page, deny being part of the Quiverfull movement.

But it’s a pretty weak denial given that they cling to most of the same practices.

Quiverfull proper perhaps some minor doctrinal differences with the Duggars - the former not believing in artificial means to overcome “barrenness”, which perhaps the Duggars are ok with.

They’re lying, because they think it will make them more palatable to the general public, and they’ll be able to spread their noxious ideology better. But everything they say and do was inspired by the movement.

6 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 6:05:35pm

re: #3 freetoken

Lots of cultists trying to defend the Duggar family online.

How in denial they are.

That Facebook page linked above is full of comments from people who support Josh Duggar.

7 freetoken  May 22, 2015 6:07:58pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

Don’t underestimate how fine of lines the hyper-religious can draw. At the slightest jot and tittle they will split off from the old group and start a new denomination.

8 RealityBasedSteve  May 22, 2015 6:11:19pm

The Quiverfull movement is also closely associated with the Christian Dominionist (7 Mountain) Movement. Here is a great article on the Quiverfull movement from a woman who left it… Born To Breed. I’ve included a video that lays out exactly what the goal are of the Dominionist movement are.

RBS

9 Skip Intro  May 22, 2015 6:11:28pm

From what I’ve read, TLC has pulled the re-runs but hasn’t cancelled the show.

Sort of like what the crap channel broadcasting Duck Dynasty did.

10 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 6:11:34pm
11 RealityBasedSteve  May 22, 2015 6:14:24pm

re: #7 freetoken

Don’t underestimate how fine of lines the hyper-religious can draw. At the slightest jot and tittle they will split off from the old group and start a new denomination.

A man is marooned alone on a desert island for 15 years. When he is finally rescued there are a number of nicely crafted thatched roof huts. He explains that “This one is my house, and this one is my workshop, and this one is my Church”. When asked what that other hut is, he replied “That’s the Church I USED to go to.”

12 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 6:15:26pm
13 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 6:16:27pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

So, Chuck and ‘weev’ finally officially teamed up, huh?

(I’m at work, so I can’t see any tweets, as Twitter is blocked)

14 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 6:16:49pm

The Duggars need to be an albatross around all these dude’s necks from now until they all leave public life.

15 allegro  May 22, 2015 6:18:01pm

I’m a bit bewildered by the Duggar’s denial of being Quiverfullers. I only heard of the quiverfull thing as related to them, though I can’t recall any details. I’m sure thinking it was out of their own mouths though.

16 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 6:18:03pm

re: #13 TedStriker

So, Chuck and weev finally, officially teamed up, huh?

Yup. And not even trying to hide it.

17 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 6:21:30pm

This is the woman who tweeted a veiled threat a few days ago that she’s going to sue me; she wants to check up on her husband, her neighbors and her friend’s husbands.

These people are really fucked up.

18 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 6:21:31pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

Yup. And not even trying to hide it.

19 freetoken  May 22, 2015 6:22:03pm

re: #15 allegro

Oh, they believe in most of the practices, which is why the Wikipedia entry on them has them as part of the Quiverfull movement. But I read somewhere today on their denial of being part of the movement, but it seemed to me to be a technical difference that most of us would not spot.

20 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 6:23:06pm
21 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 6:23:59pm

re: #19 freetoken

Oh, they believe in most of the practices, which is why the Wikipedia entry on them has them as part of the Quiverfull movement. But I read somewhere today on their denial of being part of the movement, but it seemed to me to be a technical difference that most of us would not spot.

I honestly think it’s not a genuine technical difference, but an attempt to distance themselves in order to protect their TV show.

22 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 6:25:21pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

I honestly think it’s not a genuine technical difference, but an attempt to distance themselves in order to protect their TV show.

Because even they know that Quiverfull, to us normals (otherwise known as “potential viewers”), is fucking batshit insanity.

IOW, lying for Jesus.

23 thedopefishlives  May 22, 2015 6:25:46pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

I honestly think it’s not a technical difference, but an attempt to distance themselves in order to protect their TV show.

It is. Everyone on the “inside” knows that the Duggars are absolutely the poster children for the Quiverfull movement. Anyone who is a self-confessed Quiverfuller absolutely knows who the Duggars are and follows them - pardon the pun - religiously.

Evening Lizardim.

24 Decatur Deb  May 22, 2015 6:25:52pm

re: #7 freetoken

Don’t underestimate how fine of lines the hyper-religious can draw. At the slightest jot and tittle they will split off from the old group and start a new denomination.

As a “movement”, not a church, it is pretty hard to be precisely in or out of QF. They don’t have an ID card, prescription discount plan, and a handshake. Every local iteration of the main thrust—militant reproduction—is likely to be somewhat different.

25 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 6:26:23pm

re: #6 Charles Johnson

That Facebook page linked above is full of comments from people who support Josh Duggar.

A Facebook user named Katie Robinson dropped this comment off in that thread, I quote it in full here.

Dear Josh Duggar Supporters,

I know you all believe that he simply made a “mistake”. Had it only happened once, and maybe not with his sisters who were normally sleeping at the time of assault, I could possibly see how it could be construed as a bad decision; still not a mistake though. However, he molested FIVE different victims (that we know of), the majority of them his own sisters. There is absolutely NO way this was a mistake, or just a poor decision. This was Josh Duggar making an active and conscious decision to keep repeating this behavior.

In closing, allow me to provide you with some statistics that might make you feel like child molestation is a more serious situation.

Statistics show that child molesters seldom experience rehabilitative success.The behavior is highly repetitive, to the point of compulsion, rather than resulting from a lack of judgment.

Like rape, child molestation is one of the most underreported crimes: only 1-10% are ever disclosed.

Recidivism rates range from 18-45%.

The more violent the crime the more likelihood of repeating.

89% of child sexual assault cases involve persons known to the child, such as a caretaker or family acquaintance.

29% of child sexual abuse offenders are relatives.

The typical offender is male, begins molesting by age 15, engages in a variety of deviant behavior, and molests an average of 117 youngsters, most of whom do not report the offense.

Though officially, not considered abuse, the highest incidence of incest occurs among siblings.

Are you confident enough about his innocence to allow your children to stay in his home? No? Then stop defending him, and seeking justification for his disgusting actions.

Sources:

americanspcc.org

nsopw.gov

26 bratwurst  May 22, 2015 6:26:43pm

Let’s say a politician or someone with and .edu address WAS on Adult Friend Finder. Is the family values crowd rallying around a confessed child molester today going to be outraged by people seeking fellow adults who share their particular proclivities?

27 allegro  May 22, 2015 6:27:03pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Also a clue that someone gets off on malicious gossip about her “friends” and neighbors. We should count our blessings that we aren’t among them. Yeesh.

28 thedopefishlives  May 22, 2015 6:28:00pm

re: #26 bratwurst

Let’s say a politician or someone with and .edu address WAS on Adult Friend Finder. Is the family values crowd rallying around a confessed child molester today going to be outraged by people seeking fellow adults who share their particular proclivities?

Of course they are, because a fallen believer is a tragic/heroic moral tale, whereas sinners seeking sexual satisfaction are moral hedonists who deserve to burn for eternity.

29 allegro  May 22, 2015 6:30:45pm

re: #26 bratwurst

Let’s say a politician or someone with and .edu address WAS on Adult Friend Finder. Is the family values crowd rallying around a confessed child molester today going to be outraged by people seeking fellow adults who share their particular proclivities?

I imagine that entirely depends on their party affiliation.

30 jaunte  May 22, 2015 6:31:30pm

Texas lege at work on open carry

31 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 6:32:04pm

re: #23 thedopefishlives

It is. Everyone on the “inside” knows that the Duggars are absolutely the poster children for the Quiverfull movement. Anyone who is a self-confessed Quiverfuller absolutely knows who the Duggars are and follows them - pardon the pun - religiously.

Evening Lizardim.

They’re lying for Jesus. A tactic that’s very common on the religious right.

32 Stephen T.  May 22, 2015 6:33:25pm

re: #7 freetoken

Don’t underestimate how fine of lines the hyper-religious can draw. At the slightest jot and tittle they will split off from the old group and start a new denomination.

I’m reminded of an Emo Phillips comedy bit that addressed this. “Die heretic!”

33 thedopefishlives  May 22, 2015 6:33:47pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

They’re lying for Jesus. A tactic that’s very common on the religious right.

Nailed it on the head. And they don’t even think about what they’re doing, either; they just assume that because they’re God’s chosen, that it’ll be OK. News flash: Sinners are sinners, no matter how holier-than-thou their attitude might be.

34 RealityBasedSteve  May 22, 2015 6:34:23pm

re: #28 thedopefishlives

Of course they are, because a fallen believer is a tragic/heroic moral tale, whereas sinners seeking sexual satisfaction are moral hedonists who deserve to burn for eternity.

Do people not understand the concept of ‘burner’ email accts? Just how stupid would you have to be to sign up for anything like that with your home, or worse yet, business or other official email acct?

When I was doing some photography / web stuff for some folks in the adult entertainment / escort field I did it all with a gmail acct and a Trac-Phone that I bought with cash and refilled by buying a card with cash.

But then again, I’m not a horndog trying to get laid.

RBS

35 freetoken  May 22, 2015 6:34:51pm

Found on one of their fan pages:

Q: Are the Duggars part of the QuiverFull movement?
A: The Duggars write in their second book, A Love That Multiplies: “Even though Wikipedia and some Internet blogs report that we are part of a QuiverFull movement, we are not. We are simply Bible-believing Christians who desire to follow God’s Word and apply it to our lives” (page 92).

I don’t have the book to double check.

36 Bubblehead II  May 22, 2015 6:36:33pm

*SMH* The christians sects will write this off and sweep it under the rug. He’s been forgiven, hence he is now innocent. This is why I despise christianity and religion in general. The victims? Screw them. Being female, even if prepubescent, were probably asking for it. *spit*

37 thedopefishlives  May 22, 2015 6:38:46pm

re: #35 freetoken

They’ll never admit to it. They’ll excuse their lying on a technicality because they’ll say they don’t follow the teachings of any “Quiverfull movement” leader. What they won’t mention is it’s because they ARE leaders of the Quiverfull movement and they don’t need to follow anyone else’s teachings, they make the shit up as they go.

38 freetoken  May 22, 2015 6:38:57pm

Found it at Google books:

books.google.com

39 allegro  May 22, 2015 6:39:27pm

re: #36 Bubblehead II

*SMH* The christians sects will write this off and sweep it under the rug. He’s been forgiven, hence he is now innocent. This is why I despise christianity and religion in general. The victims? Screw them. Being female, even if prepubescent, were probably asking for it. *spit*

Just early training for their future vocation. Submit and serve.

Ack, that skeeved me to type.

40 freetoken  May 22, 2015 6:41:25pm

It’s pretty clear that the Duggars are well experienced in denial.

And so are their fellow cultists.

41 Bubblehead II  May 22, 2015 6:42:35pm

Lizard, I’m calling it a night. The depravity of this so called family is even to much for me. Later.

42 allegro  May 22, 2015 6:44:03pm

re: #40 freetoken

It’s pretty clear that the Duggars are well experienced in denial.

And so are their fellow cultists.

I’m thinking they aren’t in denial at all. They simply don’t think it’s much of a problem and are believing the whole brouhaha is just Christian persecution.

43 thedopefishlives  May 22, 2015 6:44:51pm

re: #42 allegro

I’m thinking they aren’t in denial at all. They simply don’t think it’s much of a problem and are believing the whole brouhaha is just Christian persecution.

Indeed it is so.

44 Decatur Deb  May 22, 2015 6:46:54pm

If you can watch Anthony Perkins without thinking of Norman Bates, The Trial is on TCM in a few minutes.

rottentomatoes.com

45 freetoken  May 22, 2015 6:51:53pm

re: #42 allegro

The easiest person for a salesman to sell is himself.

46 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 7:07:35pm
47 Lancelot Link  May 22, 2015 7:10:54pm

re: #46 Charles Johnson

“Freedom” and “liberty” are usually pretty bad, too.

48 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 7:11:17pm
49 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 22, 2015 7:11:30pm

re: #36 Bubblehead II

*SMH* The christians sects will write this off and sweep it under the rug. He’s been forgiven, hence he is now innocent. This is why I despise christianity and religion in general. The victims? Screw them. Being female, even if prepubescent, were probably asking for it. *spit*

He’s been forgiven and is now innocent, just like Bristol Palin became re-virginized for promoting abstinence after giving birth out of wedlock.

I am not joking about that. The Palins actually said that.

50 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 22, 2015 7:14:43pm

niterz, lizardz!

51 RealityBasedSteve  May 22, 2015 7:15:39pm

re: #47 Lancelot Link

“Freedom” and “liberty” are usually pretty bad, too.

Liberty Eagle Patriotic Family Freedom Association of America.

52 allegro  May 22, 2015 7:16:43pm

re: #51 RealityBasedSteve

Liberty Eagle Patriotic Family Freedom Association of America.

RUN!!

53 klys (maker of Silmarils)  May 22, 2015 7:17:46pm

re: #51 RealityBasedSteve

Liberty Eagle Patriotic Family Freedom Association of America.

Christian Fathers Protecting the Liberty of Families in America

54 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 7:19:14pm

re: #51 RealityBasedSteve

Liberty Eagle Patriotic Family Freedom Association of America.

If a guy on the street handed me a pamphlet or card with these words on it

(great YouTube, endlessly applicable to much stuff)

55 RealityBasedSteve  May 22, 2015 7:19:37pm

Despite all the depressing news and people out there, there are some simple things that just bring a smile to your heart. This is a friend of mine and her kitty that she adopted from a rescue agency. It is very weird, she had a cat with that exact coloring that died several years ago. The folks at the rescue agency had already named the kitten, and it was the same name as her old cat. And she adopted it on the anniversary of the other ones death.

Even RBS goes SQUEEEEE for this one.
56 jaunte  May 22, 2015 7:19:59pm
57 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 7:26:28pm

Winter won’t let go in the high mountains in Colorado. Hell, the whole state has been getting good moisture as of late. I think I’ve seen the sun three times or so in 10 days. Not complaining, that’s water supply for those big reservoirs downriver in Utah and Nevada.

58 RealityBasedSteve  May 22, 2015 7:32:41pm

re: #57 teleskiguy

Winter won’t let go in the high mountains in Colorado. Hell, the whole state has been getting good moisture as of late. I think I’ve seen the sun three times or so in 10 days. Not complaining, that’s water supply for those big reservoirs downriver in Utah and Nevada.

[Embedded content]

Weren’t you basically snowless for a good part of the winter? I seem to recall you had a sad because you couldn’t really get out to ski. (or am I simply wrong again?)

RBS

59 allegro  May 22, 2015 7:35:28pm

I spent the last couple of months on a project for my best friend: an entire bed makeover. I crocheted a beautiful bedspread, blanket/afghan, matching 20” pillow, and doggie blanket. I got her new coordinating sheets in her favorite color and new pillows. I snuck over there a couple of days ago while she was at work to make the bed to surprise her. It did look stunning, if I may brag on it.

So tonight at our regular Friday out to dinner she tells me that she slept on her sofa the last two nights because she didn’t want to mess the bed up! Jeez Louise, way to miss the point! In fairness, she was just waiting til tonight because her grandson and his new beau are coming for a visit for the weekend, arriving tonight, but still… I dunno if I should be pleased or feel like a heel for driving her out of her own bed.

60 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 7:35:50pm

Wow. This woman is out there.

61 Dark_Falcon  May 22, 2015 7:36:19pm

re: #36 Bubblehead II

*SMH* The christians sects will write this off and sweep it under the rug. He’s been forgiven, hence he is now innocent. This is why I despise christianity and religion in general. The victims? Screw them. Being female, even if prepubescent, were probably asking for it. *spit*

Blaming an entire religion because of the words of a few nutbars strikes me as a major overreaction. Hate the people who say such things, not those who believe in Christ but aren’t so blind.

62 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 7:37:46pm

re: #58 RealityBasedSteve

Weren’t you basically snowless for a good part of the winter? I seem to recall you had a sad because you couldn’t really get out to ski. (or am I simply wrong again?)

RBS

Oh, I got out and skied! Colorado fared far better than California this winter. But you are correct about snowfall. It didn’t snow for two months (Jan. to Feb.). During the big huge gala World Championship skiing event (first two weeks in Feb.) the temperature hovered in the mid to upper 40s on the race course during some of the really big events (Men’s/Women’s Downhill, etc.) which isn’t good.

63 freetoken  May 22, 2015 7:37:46pm

One of the defenses the Duggar-ites are throwing around is that Josh received “counseling”/

Well, if by “counseling” you mean going to work in remodeling a building for a few weeks (and thus providing free labor to the guy without any official counselling credentials) and getting the Bible read to him at night, then maybe so.

But some of us don’t accept that as “counseling”.

64 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 7:40:16pm

And she’s actually a lawyer registered with the California bar.

65 subterraneanhomesickalien  May 22, 2015 7:40:55pm
66 allegro  May 22, 2015 7:44:07pm

re: #65 subterraneanhomesickalien

Do these fucking people believe they are above the law?

The police report reveals that Jim Bob Duggar “met with the elders of his church and told them what was going on” rather than contacting law enforcement. Josh was then sent to “Christian counseling” for three months, which, according to his mother’s admission, was not any sort of licensed counseling facility

He fucked these little girls up for life. I’m wondering if the parents think some good old “Christian Counseling” will make them normal again too?

Ain’t nothing gonna make any of those kids normal at this point.

67 jaunte  May 22, 2015 7:44:37pm

re: #65 subterraneanhomesickalien

Do these fucking people believe they are above the law?

Yes.

68 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 7:48:00pm

re: #65 subterraneanhomesickalien

Do these fucking people believe they are above the law?

The police report reveals that Jim Bob Duggar “met with the elders of his church and told them what was going on” rather than contacting law enforcement. Josh was then sent to “Christian counseling” for three months, which, according to his mother’s admission, was not any sort of licensed counseling facility

Because they ran out the clock on the statute of limitations then present on these crimes, Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar guaranteed that Josh could never be prosecuted for those assaults.

So, yes, Josh, Jim Bob, and Michelle are indeed above the law in all of this; it’s enough to make you want to go break shit.

69 freetoken  May 22, 2015 7:48:19pm

re: #66 allegro

If you read the police report, Jim Bob turned down the suggestion of the actual counseling camp that dealt with these sort of issues, because he was afraid his son would learn things from them!

So instead he sends his son off to a guy to provide some free labor while being beat over the head with the Bible.

70 Decatur Deb  May 22, 2015 7:48:39pm

re: #64 Charles Johnson

And she’s actually a lawyer registered with the California bar.

Should form a partnership with O. Taitz.

71 The War TARDIS  May 22, 2015 7:49:40pm

re: #65 subterraneanhomesickalien

I swore not to come back for another 9 days at the least, but this is making me sick.

The Church hid child abuse from the Police. They knew about it, and did nothing.

Shouldn’t they be RICO Acted? I know there was talk of doing it with the Catholiic Sex Abuse scandal.

They had to have broken a law somewhere along the line.

I feel really damn queasy.

Gone again, for a while.

72 Lancelot Link  May 22, 2015 7:49:57pm

re: #64 Charles Johnson

She’s certainly not the woman in the picture, if the account-holder is even a “she”.

73 freetoken  May 22, 2015 7:56:52pm

Some brave soul on twitter just called me “dumb” and then immediately blocked me.

Guess he told me.

74 allegro  May 22, 2015 7:57:03pm

re: #60 Charles Johnson

Wow. This woman is out there.

[Embedded content]

She’s certainly quite concerned about the sex her neighbors are getting and where. They should buy her a good vibrator and a year’s supply of batteries so she’ll maybe stop peeping in their windows.

75 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 7:57:51pm

re: #72 Lancelot Link

There really is a woman in Malibu registered with the CA bar by that name. But after looking through this person’s Twitter timeline, it’s hard to believe she/he could actually have made it through law school. Absolutely insane, and barely literate.

76 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 7:58:38pm

re: #74 allegro

She’s certainly quite concerned about the sex her neighbors are getting and where. They should buy her a good vibrator and a year’s supply of batteries so she’ll maybe stop peeping in their windows.

This should do her:

///

77 allegro  May 22, 2015 7:59:57pm

re: #76 TedStriker

This should do her:

Embedded Image

Embedded Image

///

Oh hells bells I cannot unsee that.

78 jaunte  May 22, 2015 8:01:22pm

re: #73 freetoken

Some brave soul on twitter just called me “dumb” and then immediately blocked me.

Guess he told me.

A courageous Rand follower.

79 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 8:09:12pm
80 Egregious Philbin  May 22, 2015 8:10:01pm

Talibornagain zealot nutsacks.

81 allegro  May 22, 2015 8:10:34pm

re: #79 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I have no idea what that means but I am cheering for the statists.

82 CleverToad  May 22, 2015 8:11:27pm

Nite all. Too much skeevy news to think about and still get to sleep.

So for Something Completely Different(TM), this is going out to the quilters, and those who live with ‘em.
My little old quilter mom came home from her weekly quilting group and said one of her buddies has a t-shirt she wants: “The one who dies with the most fabric didn’t quilt fast enough.”
I posted that on Facebook and one of my friends came back with a bumper sticker she’d seen: “The one who died with the most fabric died. Follow me to the estate sale.”

83 Dark_Falcon  May 22, 2015 8:11:43pm

re: #71 The War TARDIS

I swore not to come back for another 9 days at the least, but this is making me sick.

The Church hid child abuse from the Police. They knew about it, and did nothing.

Shouldn’t they be RICO Acted? I know there was talk of doing it with the Catholiic Sex Abuse scandal.

They had to have broken a law somewhere along the line.

I feel really damn queasy.

Gone again, for a while.

No, RICO couldn’t be applied now. The reason being that in cases that do not involve murder, even RICO charges are subject to a statute of limitations and that has run out by now. The thing to remember is that there is no evidence of Josh Duggar having committed any further illegal acts after 2004, and there were no further efforts (so far as we currently know) to conceal his misdeeds. Given that the conspiracy was not ongoing and did not involve someone dying, it’s too late for it to be charged criminally, even under RICO.

84 Dark_Falcon  May 22, 2015 8:12:45pm

re: #81 allegro

I have no idea what that means but I am cheering for the statists.

UpChuck as fake martyr.

85 William Lewis  May 22, 2015 8:13:13pm

re: #79 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

His incoherent mishmash of political bumper sticker thinking is so terribly hilarious - or at least would be if I wasn’t worried that he’ll violently snap before his drug and alcohol abuse makes him as dead as his hero Brietbart.

86 William Lewis  May 22, 2015 8:15:02pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

UpChuck as fake martyr.

I wonder if I could freak him out with a copy of the pictures of my various ID’s?

“Statists”. What a dweeb.

87 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 22, 2015 8:17:48pm

re: #79 Charles Johnson

I will die before I ever let the internet be taken over by the Judean People’s Front.

88 Dark_Falcon  May 22, 2015 8:18:14pm

re: #86 William Lewis

I wonder if I could freak him out with a copy of the pictures of my various ID’s?

“Statists”. What a dweeb.

That creep is not the sort of person you want to see any ID card of yours.

89 jaunte  May 22, 2015 8:18:39pm
90 stpaulbear  May 22, 2015 8:19:35pm

re: #77 allegro

Oh hells bells I cannot unsee that.

It’s from a movie called Top Secret! by the Zucker Brothers (right after Airplane!). Kind of a cross between The Great Escape and Bye Bye Birdie. The jokes are pretty bad, but it’s fun. I’ve been looking for an excuse to haul out this clip, but we never have Hillary threads here.

91 Dark_Falcon  May 22, 2015 8:22:03pm

re: #86 William Lewis

Oh and by the way, I know you won’t bid on it but this is at least worth a look: It’s a ‘musket’-variant Winchester Model 95, in 7.62x54R. The kind the Czech Legion used to fight its way out of Russia in 1918-1920.

92 Mattand  May 22, 2015 8:23:11pm

re: #79 Charles Johnson

Statist?

93 Mattand  May 22, 2015 8:25:16pm

re: #87 Higgs Boson’s Mate

I will die before I ever let the internet be taken over by the Judean People’s Front.

Those losers? Bah. The People’s Front of Judea is who you need to watch.

94 William Lewis  May 22, 2015 8:25:26pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

Oh and by the way, I know you won’t bid on it but this is at least worth a look: It’s a ‘musket’-variant Winchester Model 95, in 7.62x54R. The kind the Czech Legion used to fight its way out of Russia in 1918-1920.

Drool. Ian at Forgotten Weapons did a video of shooting one a while back. Definitely on my grail list but not any time soon. At least I got my RIA 1911 out of the pawn shop today; with luck maybe I can get to the range tomorrow.

95 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 8:27:57pm

re: #73 freetoken

Some brave soul on twitter just called me “dumb” and then immediately blocked me.

Guess he told me.

Well, since you’re lurking in those parts, I gave you a follow and added you to my LGF list, if you don’t mind.

96 Dark_Falcon  May 22, 2015 8:28:05pm

re: #92 Mattand

Statist?

Liberals, Moderates, Non-Crazy Republicans, who Chuckles would call “RINOs”. Basically, to UpChuck ‘statist’ means “Those who don’t agree with me”.

97 BadExampleMan  May 22, 2015 8:30:40pm

I’ll give Josh Duggar this much: he was a minor. He was raised in a completely fucked-up situation. There was no one to tell him that what he was doing was wrong. And when he was caught he didn’t get the kind of intensive therapeutic intervention that can help children and youths in that position.

But it just fucking enrages me that nearly all the discussion of this case centers on him. Where are his victims in this? They’ve been silenced; disappeared. You know none of them ever got any help. You know they’re all still carrying the burden of guilt for his actions because in their worldview they must’ve done something to tempt him. And now their shame is publicly exposed. Even though they’re not named, I can’t imagine the depths of their humiliation right now.

If Arkansas was a functioning polity instead of a Christianist fiefdom, DCS would swoop down on that family like the wrath of the god I don’t believe in and at the very least mandate real therapy for those girls.

98 Kragar  May 22, 2015 8:31:09pm
99 William Lewis  May 22, 2015 8:31:29pm

Ah well, off to the hotel to start the Memorial Day weekend. Wonder how full we’ll be? Big breakfast rush for the fishing types in the morning I’ll bet.

Till later in the night…

100 Kragar  May 22, 2015 8:34:00pm
101 Eric The Fruit Bat  May 22, 2015 8:34:00pm

re: #68 TedStriker

What’s the statute of limitations for obstruction of justice?

102 BadExampleMan  May 22, 2015 8:34:43pm

re: #71 The War TARDIS

The Church hid child abuse from the Police. They knew about it, and did nothing.

Shouldn’t they be RICO Acted? I know there was talk of doing it with the Catholiic Sex Abuse scandal.

They had to have broken a law somewhere along the line.

Clergy are mandated reporters in Arkansas. I looked it up.

103 RealityBasedSteve  May 22, 2015 8:38:12pm

I’m off to bed, but I have to share. I got the official offer of employment at my local dive shop, and while it’s not as much as I used to make teaching programming, it’s more than enough to support my lifestyle, and I’m doing something I love. I’m also getting some very nice perks / benefits in terms of diving and equipment.

Pay will increase as I get certified as Divemaster, then work my way up the instructor ranks. Also when I get my various factory certifications to repair equipment. (due to insurance issues, I can’t work on things I’m not certified on without direct supervision).

All in all, life is good. I’m getting in with a shop that is fairly new (2 years old), but is growing and has a couple of great owners that love diving, and have great business sense.

Life could be worse. I’m happy. Now I’ve got to look stuff up in a store supply catalog to figure out how to keep our slat-wall display from breaking up where we are hanging heavy items. Already have an idea, now need to see if they make the stuff I need to do it. :)

RBS

104 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 8:39:47pm
105 jaunte  May 22, 2015 8:40:24pm

re: #103 RealityBasedSteve

I’m doing something I love.

That’s wonderful to hear. Congratulations!

106 Kragar  May 22, 2015 8:41:03pm
107 RealityBasedSteve  May 22, 2015 8:42:11pm

re: #104 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Charles C WHO??? Never heard of him… send him away” … The Universe

108 allegro  May 22, 2015 8:42:17pm

re: #102 BadExampleMan

Clergy are mandated reporters in Arkansas. I looked it up.

That’s assuming they felt the girls being molested were in danger of harm. I honestly think no one of that bunch did. That’s why it’s all about Josh, always has been and always will be. Like yeah, kid, it’s creepy to diddle the family dog - don’t do that cos people will think you’re weird and it could harm your future.

109 Kragar  May 22, 2015 8:42:18pm

Why shouldn’t they be? Whose fucking business is it if they are?

110 stpaulbear  May 22, 2015 8:44:25pm

Well this is interesting. These adults shouldn’t be allowed in the same county as children.

REVEALED: Founder of faith-healing clinic that ‘treated’ Josh Duggar resigned over accusations he sexually harassed 30 teens and young women.

111 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 8:44:34pm
112 goddamnedfrank  May 22, 2015 8:45:01pm

re: #60 Charles Johnson

LOL, I loves me some crazy jasian lady. That account is massively fucked up.

113 subterraneanhomesickalien  May 22, 2015 8:45:37pm

Is there something wrong with being lonely and seeking companionship with another human being? Be it sexual or otherwise, between two consenting adults?

Is there something deviant about that?

Or did Chuck find that no woman registered on the site wanted to fuck him, and now he wants to burn the place down?

114 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 8:45:47pm

re: #112 goddamnedfrank

LOL, I loves me some crazy jasian lady. That account is massively fucked up.

[Embedded content]

Really, really whacked out.

115 Dark_Falcon  May 22, 2015 8:46:57pm

re: #112 goddamnedfrank

Are we sure that other account is even a woman? That post reads more like a misogynist posing as a woman.

116 subterraneanhomesickalien  May 22, 2015 8:48:37pm

By the way I must have had a broken pen in the pocket of one of my jeans when I was washing them, because everyone of my fucking t-shirts and jeans are ink stained now.

About two hundred dollars worth of clothing pissed down the drain.

I’m am angered.

117 Dark_Falcon  May 22, 2015 8:49:30pm

re: #113 subterraneanhomesickalien

Is there something wrong with being lonely and seeking companionship with another human being? Be it sexual or otherwise, between two consenting adults?

Is there something deviant about that?

Or did Chuck find that no woman registered on the site wanted to fuck him, and now he wants to burn the place down?

He just wants to hate on women. And he thinks he can get some donations by ranting about “the depravity of the left” and thus allowing social conservatives to minimize the Duggar Scandal.

118 allegro  May 22, 2015 8:50:20pm

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

Are we sure that other account is even a woman? That post reads more like a misogynist posing as a woman.

A woman would know that Sen Warren is not likely to be using tampons any longer.

119 retired cynic  May 22, 2015 8:52:41pm

re: #118 allegro

Even a normally intelligent man should know that.

120 goddamnedfrank  May 22, 2015 8:52:44pm

re: #109 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Why shouldn’t they be? Whose fucking business is it if they are?

Part of the reason homosexuality wasn’t allowed in the military and government was the potential for blackmail, but the potential goes away when there are no negative repercussions to the truth coming out. Not every person on FF was married, and not all those married were in closed relationships. You can’t blackmail someone if the truth can’t hurt them. So, if anything it’s a national security argument for destigmatizing sexual taboos and embracing no fault divorce. It deprives prudes and shaming trolls of their ability to maintain the toxic environment that blackmail incubates within.

121 Dark_Falcon  May 22, 2015 8:53:12pm

re: #118 allegro

A woman would know that Sen Warren is not likely to be using tampons any longer.

True, but not a thing I would say. It’s not gentlemanly to say such things about a lady.

122 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 8:56:03pm

re: #112 goddamnedfrank

What. The. Fuck?!?
123 subterraneanhomesickalien  May 22, 2015 8:56:28pm

Off topic a little bit.

I was wondering if anyone here is a runner, and have problems with your IT Bands?

I’m having lengthening surgery on both of mine. The right in June and the left in September.

Two months of physical therapy and two steroid shots didn’t work so my local Orthopedic Surgeon wants to cut me open.

Has anyone here had experience with it?

124 Kragar  May 22, 2015 8:57:43pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

Part of the reason homosexuality wasn’t allowed in the military and government was the potential for blackmail, but the potential goes away when there are no negative repercussions to the truth coming out. Not every person on FF was married, and not all those married were in closed relationships. You can’t blackmail someone if the truth can’t hurt them. So, if anything it’s a national security argument for destigmatizing sexual taboos and embracing no fault divorce. It deprives prudes and shaming trolls of their ability to maintain the toxic environment that blackmail incubates within.

All true.

Homosexuality didn’t create the security risk.

The stigma of homosexuality created the security risk.

125 goddamnedfrank  May 22, 2015 8:58:29pm

re: #115 Dark_Falcon

Are we sure that other account is even a woman? That post reads more like a misogynist posing as a woman.

126 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 9:04:25pm
127 retired cynic  May 22, 2015 9:06:34pm

re: #126 Charles Johnson

He looks like he is wearing them all on his head. Bleah!

128 Lidane  May 22, 2015 9:07:15pm
129 jaunte  May 22, 2015 9:07:29pm

re: #126 Charles Johnson

scalps I have gotten

So that’s what happened to Coolidge.

130 stpaulbear  May 22, 2015 9:08:13pm

Lol. Ankle-biter is pissed.

131 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 9:09:25pm

re: #120 goddamnedfrank

Part of the reason homosexuality wasn’t allowed in the military and government was the potential for blackmail, but the potential goes away when there are no negative repercussions to the truth coming out. Not every person on FF was married, and not all those married were in closed relationships. You can’t blackmail someone if the truth can’t hurt them. So, if anything it’s a national security argument for destigmatizing sexual taboos and embracing no fault divorce. It deprives prudes and shaming trolls of their ability to maintain the toxic environment that blackmail incubates within.

You’re a man of a way with words. I shared this comment on my Twitter.

132 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 9:10:50pm
133 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 9:13:18pm

re: #77 allegro

Oh hells bells I cannot unsee that.

You’ve never watched the Zucker Brothers classic Top Secret!? If not, think WWII spy movie meets Elvis movie meets The Great Escape.

134 Lidane  May 22, 2015 9:15:27pm

In 2016 Clown Car news, the coveted GOHMERT! endorsement has arrived:

135 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 9:15:54pm

re: #90 stpaulbear

It’s from a movie called Top Secret! by the Zucker Brothers (right after Airplane!). Kind of a cross between The Great Escape and Bye Bye Birdie. The jokes are pretty bad, but it’s fun. I’ve been looking for an excuse to haul out this clip, but we never have Hillary threads here.

[Embedded content]

Video

Youtube Video

136 BigPapa  May 22, 2015 9:18:05pm
137 goddamnedfrank  May 22, 2015 9:23:43pm
138 WhatEVs  May 22, 2015 9:30:40pm

re: #47 Lancelot Link

“Freedom” and “liberty” are usually pretty bad, too.

And Constitution “loving” Patriots.

139 Kragar  May 22, 2015 9:32:34pm

re: #137 goddamnedfrank

140 RealityBasedSteve  May 22, 2015 9:33:59pm

re: #139 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Gymkata is very effective if you are ever attacked while within 5 foot of a pommel horse. Could happen.

RBS

141 Charles Johnson  May 22, 2015 9:36:05pm

Lovely.

142 Kragar  May 22, 2015 9:36:17pm

re: #140 RealityBasedSteve

Gymkata is very effective if you are ever attacked while within 5 foot of a pommel horse. Could happen.

RBS

Especially when your enemies insist on coming in one at a time and refuse to use the weapons they’re carrying.

143 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 9:38:44pm
144 WhatEVs  May 22, 2015 9:57:27pm

re: #118 allegro

A woman would know that Sen Warren is not likely to be using tampons any longer.

And that you flush them. How do you sell a used one? Snake it out of the sewer?

145 GlutenFreeJesus  May 22, 2015 9:58:32pm

re: #77 allegro

Oh hells bells I cannot unsee that.

Sure you can. :)

146 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 10:01:11pm

re: #141 Charles Johnson

UpChuck is a menace, in small and large ways. Horrible human being.

147 Kragar  May 22, 2015 10:01:22pm

re: #145 GlutenFreeJesus

148 Kragar  May 22, 2015 10:02:39pm
149 Eclectic Cyborg  May 22, 2015 10:04:34pm

I wonder how much Josh Duggars sheltered life and abstinence only sex education factors in to this mess?

150 Varek Raith  May 22, 2015 10:04:36pm

re: #100 Kragar

[Embedded content]

WITCH!

151 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 22, 2015 10:06:55pm

GotNwes exposes the GotNewsDotCom business model.

Also paged.

152 Joe Bacon  May 22, 2015 10:15:13pm

re: #65 subterraneanhomesickalien

Yes. These Religious Right nuts really believe they are above the law.

153 Snarknado!  May 22, 2015 10:15:41pm

re: #116 subterraneanhomesickalien

By the way I must have had a broken pen in the pocket of one of my jeans when I was washing them, because everyone of my fucking t-shirts and jeans are ink stained now.

About two hundred dollars worth of clothing pissed down the drain.

I’m am angered.

Try rubbing alcohol. If it doesn’t work, nail polish remover (which might damage the fabric).

154 Mike Lamb  May 22, 2015 10:17:55pm

re: #132 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

So he’s a failure by any and all metrics?

155 sagehen  May 22, 2015 10:22:23pm

re: #116 subterraneanhomesickalien

By the way I must have had a broken pen in the pocket of one of my jeans when I was washing them, because everyone of my fucking t-shirts and jeans are ink stained now.

About two hundred dollars worth of clothing pissed down the drain.

I’m am angered.

Don’t be silly. They’re one-of-a-kind artisanal pieces. Put them on E-Bay.

156 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 22, 2015 10:30:36pm

re: #104 Charles Johnson

A man said to the universe:
“Sir, I exist!”
“However,” replied the universe,
“The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation.”
- Stephen Crane

157 Eclectic Cyborg  May 22, 2015 10:46:04pm

Been on a pretty steady creative roll with the poems lately…

CAT 5

The rain is coming mama,
We need to be prepared.
Bolt ‘em shut.
Bolt ‘em shut.

I can’t shake this feeling
There’s something awful in the air.
Don’t know what.
Don’t know what.

We’ve got plenty of water,
And a few days worth of food,
But even that is not enough
To calm my fearful mood.

Weatherman said
It’s the worst he’s ever seen.
Getting strong.
Getting strong.

Skies are getting darker,
And the wind is getting mean.
Won’t be long.
Won’t be long.

They say in the South
It’s a special kind of pain,
That trails just a bit behind.
A roaring hurricane.

There’s children out there screaming,
The water’s pouring in.
Levee’s broke.
Levee’s broke.

Like something you’d expect to see,
When our final days begin,
Tears and smoke.
Tears and smoke.

It’s getting pretty harsh outside,
The neighbor has his gun.
It’s down to only two decisions:
Do we stay or run?

Climbing from the rubble of
What used to be my room.
Nothing left.
Nothing left.

Workers grabbing bodies
From a shallow filthy tomb.
Stench of death,
Stench of death.

Can hardly hear through the screaming,
Such a crazy frantic drama,
But at least I’ve got what matters most,
My God, myself and my mama.

See all of the people,
They’re an angry hungry hoard,
But they survived.
They survived.

It’s an awful road ahead
But we just gotta thank The Lord.
We’re alive.
We’re alive.

158 Jenner7  May 22, 2015 11:04:31pm
“Listen Betty, don’t start up with your white zone shit again. There’s just no stopping in a white zone.

Oh really, Vernon? Why pretend, we both know perfectly well what this is about. You want me to have an abortion.”

159 Kragar  May 22, 2015 11:06:27pm

re: #158 Jenner7

“The fog is getting thicker.”

“AND LEON IS GET LAAAAARGER!”

160 BeachDem  May 22, 2015 11:09:22pm

re: #151 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

GotNwes exposes the GotNewsDotCom business model.

Also paged.

You are good!

Now he’s going to wait on his Fugelsang BOMBSHELL until Fugelsang gets a show (oh how I wish Fugelsang would get a show—I REALLY wanted him to take over Stewart’s show.) So once again, the little twit has nothing but a big mouth and an over-inflated ego. (Hey, he has pictures, you guys!)

Oh, and if he thinks his big news about Mike Huckabee’s weight loss story is a revelation, he’s a day late and several dollars short (as always.) Next up, his big Chris Christie weight loss reveal. I’m sure it will be riveting.

161 Jenner7  May 22, 2015 11:11:05pm

re: #159 Kragar

One of my absolute favorite movies, along with The Great Race. I’ve already shown my kids The Great Race, waiting til they’re a little older to show them Airplane!

162 The War TARDIS  May 22, 2015 11:12:08pm

re: #149 Eclectic Cyborg

I have been reading elsewhere, and will be back for a bit now. I wonder if we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg here.

163 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 11:16:24pm

re: #158 Jenner7

164 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 11:19:13pm

re: #159 Kragar

“The fog is getting thicker.”

“AND LEON IS GET LAAAAARGER!”

Reporter: What kind of plane is it?
Johnny: Oh, it’s a big pretty white plane with red stripes, curtains in the windows and wheels and it looks like a big Tylenol!

165 BadExampleMan  May 22, 2015 11:20:09pm

re: #108 allegro

That’s assuming they felt the girls being molested were in danger of harm.

Actually, no, being a mandated reporter means you don’t get to make that decision. It’s a criminal offense not to report, no matter what you think about the situation or how state involvement will affect it.

166 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 22, 2015 11:21:25pm

Are you nervous?
Yes.
First time?
No, I’ve been nervous lots of times.

167 Kragar  May 22, 2015 11:21:46pm

re: #164 TedStriker

“Johnny, what can you make out of this?”

“This? Why, I can make a hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl… “

168 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 11:23:09pm

re: #167 Kragar

“Johnny, what can you make out of this?”

“This? Why, I can make a hat or a brooch or a pterodactyl… “

Oveur: You ever been in a cockpit before?
Joey: No sir, I’ve never been up in a plane before.
Oveur: You ever…seen a grown man naked? Do you…like movies about gladiators?
Later…
Oveur: Joey, have you ever been…in a Turkish prison?

169 Eclectic Cyborg  May 22, 2015 11:24:21pm

I wish they still made comedies like that these days.

170 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 11:24:45pm

[reading newspaper headlines]
Rex Kramer: Passengers certain to die!
Steve McCroskey: Airline negligent.
Johnny: There’s a sale at Penney’s!

171 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 11:27:32pm

172 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 11:41:18pm

Don’t doubt talon_262’s knowledge and wisdom of Airplane!

173 TedStriker  May 22, 2015 11:42:59pm

re: #172 teleskiguy

Don’t doubt talon_262’s knowledge and wisdom of Airplane!

I can’t fail my alias’ namesake, you know, because I never got over Macho Grande…

174 BeachDem  May 22, 2015 11:44:39pm

And Charles P. Pierce comes up with another excellent nickname (not quite at the “Scott Walker, the goggle-eyed homunculus hired by Koch Industries to manage their midwest subsidiary formerly known as the state of Wisconsin” level, but I like it):

lop-headed Javert Trey Gowdy, chairman of the House Special Stop Her Now Committee.

175 Jenner7  May 22, 2015 11:51:58pm

Anybody watch The Critic?

Video

176 teleskiguy  May 22, 2015 11:58:30pm

re: #173 TedStriker

I can’t fail my alias’ namesake, you know, because I never got over Macho Grande…

TARGET’S JUST AHEAD. TARGET SHOULD BE CLEAR IF YOU MOVE IN LOW ENOUGH. YOU’LL HAVE TO DECIDE

YOU’LL HAVE TO DECIDE

177 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 23, 2015 12:00:33am

re: #175 Jenner7

Anybody watch The Critic?

[Embedded content]

Video

It seems vaguely familiar. Did Jon Lovitz voice the main character?

178 Jenner7  May 23, 2015 12:01:12am

re: #177 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Yes! It’s on Youtube.

179 Jenner7  May 23, 2015 12:07:42am

Welp, I’m intoxicated. G’night all. Have a good weekend!

180 Kragar  May 23, 2015 12:19:20am

Reminder: Matt Berry is fucking awesome

181 Kragar  May 23, 2015 12:25:30am

182 Kragar  May 23, 2015 12:33:19am

183 teleskiguy  May 23, 2015 12:34:19am

184 Lancelot Link  May 23, 2015 2:32:04am

re: #168 TedStriker

That actor still gets teased about that scene.
For the record, he doesn’t like movies about gladiators, though he has seen a grown man naked.

185 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 3:03:35am

So, an update here on the SSM referendum in Ireland; thus far, it seems (without official confirmation yet) that the Yes votes are carrying the day, largely owing to quite high voter turnout, particularly in urban areas.

You can follow live updates here:

liveblog.irishtimes.com

Final results are expected around 4 PM local time.

186 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 3:11:30am

Not once have the Duggar parents talked about what effect the molestation had on their minor daughters because, I suppose, their feelings and the impact it had on them don’t much matter in this strange world of fixed male privilege. I think Josh Duggar molested all 5 of his sisters and may have done others outside the family who were similarly told not to talk about it to anyone. And when you’re a young child whose only adult contacts are your parents and the church which has excused the behavior (your whole world, as it were), then there is no way to heal. These girls (young women now), if they’re ever able to escape from the cult their parents have imprisoned them in, will hopefully someday realize that their lives were in no way “normal” and that the kind of behavior exhibited by their brother isn’t either, but is condemned by those outside their parents’ sphere of influence. It will takes years of therapy and “deprogramming”, however, to reach normalcy and an understanding of what they’ve been put through.

Another result of molestation at an early age is that girls grow up thinking that their worth is based solely on their sexuality, whether from sexual expression or from being a brood mare for the male(s) in their lives. You see women from all walks of life who have drifted into “adult entertainment”, prostitution, drug addiction, and other damaging and self-destruction behavior because of this kind of abuse, including bad relationships with plenty of domestic violence, because there is no other way to express the damage done to them as children w/o years of therapy and support.

These Duggar kids are not encouraged to pursue anything beyond their “home schooling”, and I don’t think any of them have a legitimate college degree. The Duggars promote a skeezy outfit called “College Plus” which claims you can get a college degree online (the “christian” kind). Christianist “College Plus” claims after 8 wks of one of their subjects is “studied” you can CLEP the course and get credit. It’s yet to be determined whether or not this “college” is accredited because the Duggars skate around the question, as they do all others, because it’s part of their cult. They appear to be closely connected to Liberty, although their “headquarters” is in TX: facebook.com

187 freetoken  May 23, 2015 3:16:14am

re: #186 Justanotherhuman

It’s all part of the bigger problem with Jim Bob Duggar and Michelle, who cannot allow for that they need help.

188 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 3:16:22am

In regard to the marriage equality referendum in Ireland, I just caught this Tweet:

That’s quite astounding, to be honest.

189 freetoken  May 23, 2015 3:17:19am

re: #188 Dr Lizardo

Clearly Satan has his throne in Ranelagh.

190 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 3:19:47am

re: #189 freetoken

Clearly Satan has his throne in Ranelagh.

LOLOL

We laugh, but I have little doubt the wingnuts - of both Catholic and Protestant variety - would certainly think that.

The wingnuts are gonna be apoplectic. Their argument that marriage equality would never win a popular vote now seems to have finally gone out the window.

They’ve lost the argument. And it’s looking like they’ve lost it pretty decisively.

191 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 3:21:21am
192 freetoken  May 23, 2015 3:25:48am

The Touching Little Children network springs into action:

JOSH DUGGAR ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK

“19 Kids and Counting” may survive the Josh Duggar molestation scandal, but Josh might not.

Connected industry sources tell TMZ, TLC is considering a number of options, weighing the pros and cons. One is to cancel the show outright, the other is to just go full steam ahead, but there is real talk about continuing without Josh.

Our sources say there’s a strong sense axing Josh would not materially hurt the show. We’re told TLC has done research and it shows the daughters have become the driving force. The weddings of Jill and Jessa were ratings successes, as was the birth of Jill’s baby.

[…]

193 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 3:27:28am

re: #187 freetoken

A good parent, a really good parent, can always admit to the child that they’re wrong.

And a good parent would never belong to a cult like that one.

194 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 3:27:55am

re: #192 freetoken

The Touching Little Children network springs into action:

JOSH DUGGAR ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK

It’s all about the Benjamins, isn’t it?

*smh*

195 freetoken  May 23, 2015 3:29:18am

re: #194 Dr Lizardo

It’s all about the Benjamins, isn’t it?

As for cancelling the show, our sources say there is significant concern that big advertisers will bail. TMZ broke the story, General Mills has already pulled the plug.

On the other hand, we’re told TLC believes the show has a strong, loyal evangelical base and so far support has not wavered.

But removing Josh could be a good middle ground for TLC.

196 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 3:29:43am

Though this may seem premature, as the final tally hasn’t been announced yet,I just caught this:

197 freetoken  May 23, 2015 3:30:30am

If it’s true that Oprah’s producers found out, then are we really to believe that TLC’s producers didn’t know all along?

198 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 3:31:53am

re: #197 freetoken

If it’s true that Oprah’s producers found out, then are we really to believe that TLC’s producers didn’t know all along?

TLC liked the Duggars’ schtick too much to actually vet them.

199 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 3:32:48am

re: #195 freetoken

*sigh*

But as that snippet noted, if advertisers bail, that’s it; game over. The show is finished. And General Mills pulling the plug is nothing to sneeze at - if I were a producer of that show, I’d be genuinely worried. Others may follow if they perceive the “Duggar brand” is now irredeemably toxic.

200 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 3:35:20am
201 Timothy Watson  May 23, 2015 3:39:21am

re: #101 Eric The Fruit Bat

What’s the statute of limitations for obstruction of justice?

Also, child abuse/neglect for not doing anything to stop the abuse of their own children.

202 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 3:40:59am

Sean Overbeeke is the producer for the Duggar show.

linkedin.com

He already has another large white, musical family to replace them:

heartbridgemedia.com

203 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 3:51:37am

You can get some more out of this story, which includes a husband and wife team named Enlow, the woman being the “coordinating producer” and the man the director, and how they’re considered part of the Duggar family (as was Sean Overbeeke).

people.com

204 freetoken  May 23, 2015 3:56:12am

Yes, it’s the DailyFail, but it’s a story which has legs and they’re pulling in all the Gothard/Walker problems related to the Duggars:

REVEALED: Founder of faith-healing clinic that ‘treated’ Josh Duggar resigned over accusations he sexually harassed 30 teens and young women

More light needs to be shone on this dirty little corner in America’s closet.

205 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 3:58:30am

re: #204 freetoken

And scroll down to “TLC’s Child Molester Problem”.

206 freetoken  May 23, 2015 3:59:10am

re: #205 Justanotherhuman

And that is why it is now known as the Touching Little Children network.

207 Nyet  May 23, 2015 3:59:20am

re: #36 Bubblehead II

*SMH* The christians sects will write this off and sweep it under the rug. He’s been forgiven, hence he is now innocent. This is why I despise christianity and religion in general. The victims? Screw them. Being female, even if prepubescent, were probably asking for it. *spit*

That’s a baseless overgeneralization. Not all Christians, Jews and Muslims cover up child molestation, are terrorists etc.

Specifically the phenomenon of covering up child abuse is more frequent in insular, secretive communities which are not representative of these religions as a whole.

208 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 3:59:29am

Why was Joseph Duggar, another son, at Gothard’s “Alert Academy”?

209 freetoken  May 23, 2015 4:02:57am

TLC was started as an educational channel to bring culture and education to the Tennessee valley and mid-south area.

Something happened along the way.

210 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 4:04:56am

Trying to keep up with the Duggars? No, just fucking no.

German woman, 65 and mother of 13, has quadruplets

news.yahoo.com

211 Timothy Watson  May 23, 2015 4:05:30am

re: #209 freetoken

TLC was started as an educational channel to bring culture and education to the Tennessee valley and mid-south area.

Something happened along the way.

It’s called Network Decay.

212 freetoken  May 23, 2015 4:13:28am

I wonder what the back-room talk was like at the Southern Republican Leadership Conference in OK last night. How many political operatives are in full CYA mode?

213 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 4:17:18am

re: #212 freetoken

I wonder what the back-room talk was like at the Southern Republican Leadership Conference in OK last night. How many political operatives are in full CYA mode?

“The Duggars? Never heard of ‘em. And that photo, c’mon……obviously photoshop. A well-done photoshop, but it’s still fake.”

214 freetoken  May 23, 2015 4:18:09am

Not to be left out of the Irony Parade, Christianity Today online just posted this article:

Ben Seewald recalls embarrassing first impression he made on Jessa Duggar’s dad

Totally oblivious.

215 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 4:20:01am

re: #210 Justanotherhuman

BTW, this is the woman who made news when she had a child at age 55 who she claims was conceived naturally. This same child is the one who wanted a baby sister or brother. Those babies were born at 26 wks by caesarean section, 3 boys and 1 girl.

theguardian.com

216 freetoken  May 23, 2015 4:20:37am

re: #214 freetoken

Edit that: “ChristianToday” not “Christianity Today”.

217 lawhawk  May 23, 2015 4:35:31am

re: #213 Dr Lizardo

“The Duggars? Never heard of ‘em. And that photo, c’mon……obviously photoshop. A well-done photoshop, but it’s still fake.”

No, it will be that just because they took multiple photos and shot video with someone, that doesn’t mean that they know everything that happened with that person’s background or that they knew or had reason to know that the person was a child molester.

And that they continue to stand with that molester and their family, and don’t particularly care what happened to the molester’s victims, who happen to be his sisters and a family friend, shouldn’t stop their political ambitions.

218 Nyet  May 23, 2015 4:45:51am

re: #207 Nyet

Which is not to say that the problem of cover-ups is not largely of a religious nature. Sacred/authoritative texts of both Christianity and rabbinical Judaism contain warnings/prohibitions against bringing the “internal” problems and disputes before the outsider courts (not sure about Islam, but I would expect to find something like this there too). It is more or less understandable why such instructions appeared back then, but they have no place in the modern world. More moderate Christians and Jews ignore this stuff (as they ignore lots of other stuff) but for fundies those are still more or less direct instructions from God.

Which is why I sometimes compare all those old texts to time bombs. All the bad stuff is still there, if ignored and explained away by the mainstream. But there will always be people who take it at face value.

219 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 4:48:13am

All about the Euros? And RTL is known for its cheesy and fraudulent “reality” shows as well. This is really playing with life itself for profit and some kind of perverse fame.

ctvnews.ca

220 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 4:54:57am
221 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 4:58:33am

Rooster crowing and hens gathering outside my apt.

And the damn squirrels in the stash. : )

222 Nyet  May 23, 2015 5:00:44am

re: #220 Justanotherhuman

That’s a big deal not only because it’s a whole another country to join the civilized world ;) but also because Ireland used to be considered a Catholic stronghold. If it falls…

223 lawhawk  May 23, 2015 5:01:44am

re: #222 Nyet

That’s a big deal not only because it’s a whole another country to join the civilized world ;) but also because Ireland used to be considered a Catholic stronghold. If it falls…

Then they clearly aren’t Christian enough. /

224 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 5:03:32am

Judge to deliver Michael Brelo verdict

wkyc.com

(snip)

Brelo faces two counts of voluntary manslaughter. He was involved in the 22-minute police pursuit that began outside the Justice Center in Cleveland late Nov. 29, 2012, and ended in the parking lot of Heritage Middle School in East Cleveland. The pursuit followed a blue 1979 Chevy Malibu that had two occupants, later identified as driver Timothy Russell, 43, and passenger Malissa Williams, 30.

Brelo fired 49 shots, the most of any officer. He jumped on the hood of the Malibu and fired the last 15 shots after other officers had stopped shooting. More

225 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 5:05:47am

re: #222 Nyet

Yeah, Spain did it 10 yrs ago, on a par with Canada’s law.

nytimes.com

226 Nyet  May 23, 2015 5:08:10am

re: #225 Justanotherhuman

And the sky did not fall? How?!

;)

227 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 5:17:44am

The Bizarre, Shania Twain-Based Argument For Keeping McDonald’s Wages Low

thinkprogress.org

And they went to Canada to get it.

228 Timothy Watson  May 23, 2015 5:23:36am

THE GAYS HAVE TAKEN OVER IRELAND!11!! THEY ARE STARVING THE CHRISTIANS AND FORCING THEM INTO THE SEA!!1!

229 lawhawk  May 23, 2015 5:24:34am

That video is tough to watch; instead of trying to figure out whether the driver was okay, the first thought is that the driver was dangerous; and because the driver was nonresponsive to their orders, they attempted to taser and then pepper sprayed the man before getting him out of the car.

An ambulance was called to treat Washington for the pepper spray exposure and remove the Taser prong attached to his skin. Washington was transported to a local hospital where doctors discovered that he was experiencing a medical emergency in the preceding hours.
After reviewing the incident in accordance with department policy, Command Staff determined that the force used by the officers involved in the incidence was “not appropriate.”

Jurgens resigned from the department on May 14.

“The use of force demonstrated in the incident involving Mr. Washington was not in compliance with department policy or training,” said Captain Rick Pennock in a news release. “We take matters such as these very seriously and require that officers at all times exercise appropriate restraint and good judgment in their dealings with citizens.”
Police said Washington was changed with hit-and-run, hit-and-run (property damage), reckless driving, and driving on a revoked or suspended license. The charges are still pending and the warrants had not be served as of Friday.

If he was having a medical emergency like a stroke or TIA or seizures, that could explain the driving issues and while he’d be liable for the damage, that would mitigate the criminal charges. But the cops never even considered that when they initiated the stop.

That has to change, particularly since so many people who are stopped by police and are on the receiving end of excessive force incidents turn out to be suffering from mental illness or other medical issues. And that doesn’t even begin to touch on the race of those who are involved in these stops.

230 Romantic Heretic  May 23, 2015 5:29:36am

re: #7 freetoken

Like the old Emo Phillips joke.

Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!”

He said, “Nobody loves me.”

I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”

He said, “Yes.”

I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?”

He said, “A Christian.”

I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?”

He said, “Protestant.”

I said, “Me, too! What franchise?”

He said, “Baptist.”

I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?”

He said, “Northern Baptist.”

I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”

He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.”

I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.”

I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?”

He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.”

I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.

231 Timothy Watson  May 23, 2015 5:33:45am

re: #229 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

That video is tough to watch; instead of trying to figure out whether the driver was okay, the first thought is that the driver was dangerous; and because the driver was nonresponsive to their orders, they attempted to taser and then pepper sprayed the man before getting him out of the car.

If he was having a medical emergency like a stroke or TIA or seizures, that could explain the driving issues and while he’d be liable for the damage, that would mitigate the criminal charges. But the cops never even considered that when they initiated the stop.

That has to change, particularly since so many people who are stopped by police and are on the receiving end of excessive force incidents turn out to be suffering from mental illness or other medical issues. And that doesn’t even begin to touch on the race of those who are involved in these stops.

I think part of the problem is that police resort to taser and pepper spray instead of using the minimal amount of necessary physical force (i.e., your hands) to get someone out of a car, handcuff him to be safe, and then do an assessment as to his mental/physical condition.

232 Romantic Heretic  May 23, 2015 5:34:46am

re: #198 Justanotherhuman

TLC liked the Duggars’ schtick too much to actually vet them.

They knew there was money to be made and that’s the important thing.

233 lawhawk  May 23, 2015 5:35:51am
234 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 5:36:31am

First official results on Ireland’s marriage equality referendum.

235 Romantic Heretic  May 23, 2015 5:37:50am

re: #209 freetoken

TLC was started as an educational channel to bring culture and education to the Tennessee valley and mid-south area.

Something happened along the way.

In the words of P. T. Barnum, “No one ever went broke underestimating the case of the American public.”

The corollary is that plenty of people have gone broke overestimating it.

TLC decided not to be broke.

236 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 5:38:03am

re: #233 lawhawk

And life will go on; hetero marriages ~still~ unaffected; Rush Limbaugh & others will continue to marry ~&~ divorce

…..and marry, and divorce, and marry, and divorce, etc., etc., and on ad infinitum.

237 freetoken  May 23, 2015 5:38:40am

re: #234 Dr Lizardo

Dublin too is Satan’s throne.

238 freetoken  May 23, 2015 5:39:12am

Good Christians ought to not travel to Ireland - clearly lots of child molesters there.

239 Romantic Heretic  May 23, 2015 5:40:21am

re: #228 Timothy Watson

THE GAYS HAVE TAKEN OVER IRELAND!11!! THEY ARE STARVING THE CHRISTIANS AND FORCING THEM INTO THE SEA!!1!

Wait! Are you saying Christians are like snakes? /////

240 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 5:45:41am

re: #235 Romantic Heretic

Anyone can smile for the camera.

241 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 5:50:05am

Marriage Referendum: ‘Ireland is shining’ says an emotional Leo Varadkar

independent.ie

242 Decatur Deb  May 23, 2015 5:50:21am

re: #238 freetoken

Good Christians ought to not travel to Ireland - clearly lots of child molesters there.

In protest, I am slowly emptying out my bottle of Tullamore Dew.

243 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 5:50:44am

re: #242 Decatur Deb

Down your throat? : )

244 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 5:51:24am

re: #242 Decatur Deb

In protest, I am slowly emptying out my bottle of Tullamore Dew.

One shot at a time, amirite?

245 Decatur Deb  May 23, 2015 5:52:46am

re: #243 Justanotherhuman

re: #244 Dr Lizardo

‘Twill take the sting out of the ancestral shame.

246 wrenchwench  May 23, 2015 5:54:54am

Double!

247 Lancelot Link  May 23, 2015 5:56:23am

re: #235 Romantic Heretic

Barnum didn’t say that; however, obnoxious elitist HL Mencken did say

“No one in this world, so far as I know—and I have searched the record for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.”

248 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 5:56:44am

While reading a story about the recent adult website hack, the author included this link (haveibeenpwned.com) for readers to use to determine if their email address(es) has ever been hacked from these various websites. Pretty interesting. It turns out my adult website email address is safe, but apparently I had emails hacked from Forbes and Adobe.

249 Amory Blaine  May 23, 2015 5:59:19am

The girls didn’t get counselling because its part of the process to groom the next batch of abusers.

251 lawhawk  May 23, 2015 6:05:51am

It’s not just the GOP Duggar problem; that’s actually a symptom of the real problem - the way that so many GOPers treat and view women - not as equals, but as subservient to men and who have no control over their own bodies. It’s men who should make those decisions and who should impose all kinds of restrictions - particularly re: abortion and birth control as well as sex education.

252 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:08:55am

FFS. TLC needs a new president/CEO, board of directors, and they need to fire every single person responsible for these shows. I didn’t realize TLC featured THIS many shows with child molesters:

253 Decatur Deb  May 23, 2015 6:10:15am

re: #251 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

It’s not just the GOP Duggar problem; that’s actually a symptom of the real problem - the way that so many GOPers treat and view women - not as equals, but as subservient to men and who have no control over their own bodies. It’s men who should make those decisions and who should impose all kinds of restrictions - particularly re: abortion and birth control as well as sex education.

The photos by the TPGOP menagerie should be a disqualifier for each of them even if the little shit were a pure as the driven snow. The Duggar problem is their sick ideology, not just their sick offspring.

254 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:12:06am

re: #251 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

It’s not just the GOP Duggar problem; that’s actually a symptom of the real problem - the way that so many GOPers treat and view women - not as equals, but as subservient to men and who have no control over their own bodies. It’s men who should make those decisions and who should impose all kinds of restrictions - particularly re: abortion and birth control as well as sex education.

Absolutely.

255 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 6:16:39am

Even 12 yr old boys are arrested and charged with molestation.

12-year-old charged with molesting young girl

news4jax.com

256 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:17:40am

re: #251 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

It’s not just the GOP Duggar problem; that’s actually a symptom of the real problem - the way that so many GOPers treat and view women - not as equals, but as subservient to men and who have no control over their own bodies. It’s men who should make those decisions and who should impose all kinds of restrictions - particularly re: abortion and birth control as well as sex education.

I agree and would add that conservatives, for some strange reason, want to make anyone and everyone into a hero that aligns with their narrow worldview. Look at all the flawed characters that GOP has put on a pedestal to only come crashing down: Bundy, Joe-not-the-Plumber, Holly Hobby Lobby, Dinesh, the Duggars, the Palins, etc, etc., etc. Conservatives on a daily screech that the “Left worships Obama”, but one thing is clear is that they will turn any character into a hero just as long as they say bad things about Democrats.

257 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:17:41am

nytimes.com
Beautiful ad done by the YES side. Props to Paddy and Brighid for showing and understanding what real Christian love actually is.

258 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:18:47am

re: #256 Dr. Matt

I agree and would add that conservatives, for some strange reason, want to make anyone and everyone into a hero that aligns with their narrow worldview. Look at all the flawed characters that GOP has put on a pedestal to only come crashing down: Bundy, Joe-not-the-Plumber, Holly Hobby Lobby, Dinesh, the Duggars, the Palins, etc, etc., etc. Conservatives on a daily screech that the “Left worships Obama”, but one thing is clear is that they will turn any character into a hero just as long as they say bad things about Democrats.

Hell look at Ben Carson’s presidential candidacy. This is a guy who clearly shouldn’t be able to run a state or represent one in Congress let alone be President but enough wingnuts think he should be president that he’s running.

259 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:20:16am

re: #258 HappyWarrior

Hell look at Ben Carson’s presidential candidacy. This is a guy who clearly shouldn’t be able to run a state or represent one in Congress let alone be President but enough wingnuts think he should be president that he’s running.

Add to that list: Herman Cain and Donald Trump

260 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:20:42am

re: #259 Dr. Matt

Add to that list: Herman Cain and Donald Trump

Yep.

261 Timothy Watson  May 23, 2015 6:21:53am

re: #249 Amory Blaine

The girls didn’t get counselling because its part of the process to groom the next batch of abusers.

How do I make a comment about “the husbands are going to be demanding a refund now that they’ve found out” while making it clear I am being sarcastic?

262 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 6:24:14am
263 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 6:24:16am

re: #253 Decatur Deb

The photos by the TPGOP menagerie should be a disqualifier for each of them even if the little shit were a pure as the driven snow. The Duggar problem is their sick ideology, not just their sick offspring.

By THAT logic Barack Obama never would have been able to run for president. The whole Bill Ayers / Jeremiah Wright mess would have shot him down before he even got off the ground.

Actually, the only candidate I see derailed by this is Huck (and good riddance to him). The rest will say some variant of “Josh Duggar did a very bad thing back then. We’re praying for him, but cannot have anything further to do with him.” And that and keeping the Duggars at arm’s length will be enough, because the candidates really did not know about this until the story broke.

So Paul, Rubio, Bush, Cruz, Walker, et al will survive this, though it would be a different matter if that story had broken a year from now. If it broke next May, it would have had the potential to overshadow and roil nominee, who would likely be too short of money to effectively respond until after the Republican National Convention in June. But in breaking now, there’s enough time for most of the candidates to get clear of it.

264 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:26:24am

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

By THAT logic Barack Obama never would have been able to run for president. The whole Bill Ayers / Jeremiah Wright mess would have shot him down before he even got off the ground.

Actually, the only candidate I see derailed by this is Huck (and good riddance to him). The rest will say some variant of “Josh Duggar did a very bad thing back then. We’re praying for him, but cannot have anything further to do with him.” And that and keeping the Duggars at arm’s length will be enough, because the candidates really did not know about this until the story broke.

So Paul, Rubio, Bush, Cruz, Walker, et al will survive this, though it would be a different matter if that story had broken a year from now. If it broke next May, it would have had the potential to overshadow and roil nominee, who would likely be too short of money to effectively respond until after the Republican National Convention in June. But in breaking now, there’s enough time for most of the candidates to get clear of it.

The difference though and surely you know this is Obama never expressed the sentiments that Wright and Ayers have while the others definitely share the Duggars’ views about gay people and women.I agree Huckabee will be the biggest effected because the damned idiot insists on tying his boat to them but this is different than Wright/Ayers.

265 Decatur Deb  May 23, 2015 6:26:29am

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

I was very surprised the weekend Obama survived revelation of the Wright association. That was when I realized he had some good staffers and great skills.

266 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:28:03am
267 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:29:45am

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

By THAT logic Barack Obama never would have been able to run for president. The whole Bill Ayers / Jeremiah Wright mess would have shot him down before he even got off the ground.

False equivalency. There was no “Bill Ayers / Jeremiah Wright mess”. Those were manufactured outrages from the GOP/Fox “news”.

268 freetoken  May 23, 2015 6:32:41am

re: #267 Dr. Matt

Jeremiah Wright was baggage because his sermons were too much for some people to take. Personally I find Wright pretty much to be like the next preacher, perhaps more skilled at homiletics which led to his success. Still, it is just more religion.

269 Decatur Deb  May 23, 2015 6:33:27am

re: #267 Dr. Matt

False equivalency. There was no “Bill Ayers / Jeremiah Wright mess”. Those were manufactured outrages from the GOP/Fox “news”.

True or false, it could have been fatal. The RW overplayed it, and the Obama campaign put the right amount of daylight between the candidate and the damaging preacher.

270 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:34:44am

re: #268 freetoken

Jeremiah Wright was baggage because his sermons were too much for some people to take. Personally I find Wright pretty much to be like the next preacher, perhaps more skilled at homiletics which led to his success. Still, it is just more religion.

Translation: Conservatives are politically correct whiners. They disagreed with his message and then stocked up on fainting couches and pearls for clutching.

271 freetoken  May 23, 2015 6:37:28am

re: #270 Dr. Matt

Translation: Conservatives are politically correct whiners. They disagreed with his message and then stocked up on fainting couches and pearls for clutching.

Wright was damning the US for its past transgressions. Well, I do too, to an extent, but I don’t wrap it up in God-talk.

Wright had the temerity to think that “God” should damn America. This brought all sorts of harrumphs from the Patriots. Ironically, the religious right wing is riddled with people who now promote imprecatory prayer.

272 Amory Blaine  May 23, 2015 6:38:58am

What did rev. Wright do that was wrong?

273 freetoken  May 23, 2015 6:39:17am

Duggar defender in action:

274 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 6:39:29am

Live coverage out of Ireland:

rte.ie

275 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:40:00am

re: #272 Amory Blaine

What did rev. Wright do that was wrong?

The better question I have for all the right wingers who flipped out over him is why don’t they take any outrage to people like Robertson, Fischer, Falwell, etc who say far worse things than “God damn America?”

276 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:40:11am

re: #269 Decatur Deb

True or false, it could have been fatal. The RW overplayed it, and the Obama campaign put the right amount of daylight between the candidate and the damaging preacher.

It was just another hail Mary from the GOP/Fox “news”. Recall, they spent most of that campaign on the defense. Candidate Obama ran a tight and disciplined ship. The GOP/Fox “news” spend most of that campaign desperate and reeling looking for anything to stick: Birth certificates, Joe the Plumber, Rita the nurse, Ayers, Wright, Alinsky, bathhouses, Muslim background, etc., etc., All asinine, all manufactured.

277 freetoken  May 23, 2015 6:40:42am

re: #274 Dr Lizardo

Live coverage out of Ireland:

rte.ie

They’re speaking a strange language.

278 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 6:40:46am

Wow, this really describes a lot of “reality show” pesonalities as well.

Internet Trolls Really Are Horrible People

Narcissistic, Machiavellian, psychopathic, and sadistic.

slate.com

279 Amory Blaine  May 23, 2015 6:41:19am

Donald Trump just said America is a hellhole and the rwnj eat it up.

280 Decatur Deb  May 23, 2015 6:42:08am

re: #271 freetoken

Wright was damning the US for its past transgressions. Well, I do too, to an extent, but I don’t wrap it up in God-talk.

Wright had the temerity to think that “God” should damn America. This brought all sorts of harrumphs from the Patriots. Ironically, the religious right wing is riddled with people who now promote imprecatory prayer.

Wright was effective in a small slice of a defined local audience. He did his best to be poison on the national scale. There is no constituency for young Mr. Duggar, but these GOP buffoons are too hate-blind to realize it..

281 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:42:10am

re: #271 freetoken

Wright was damning the US for its past transgressions. Well, I do too, to an extent, but I don’t wrap it up in God-talk..

So? America is far from perfect

Wright had the temerity to think that “God” should damn America. This brought all sorts of harrumphs from the Patriots. Ironically, the religious right wing is riddled with people who now promote imprecatory prayer.

HAHAHA. Conservative preachers do the exact same thing!

282 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:42:44am

re: #281 Dr. Matt

So? America is far from perfect

HAHAHA. Conservative preachers do the exact same thing!

No, they’re worse. They blame people of the same gender who love each other for natural disasters.

283 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:42:46am

re: #272 Amory Blaine

What did rev. Wright do that was wrong?

Told the truth (something conservatives hate).

284 Decatur Deb  May 23, 2015 6:43:13am

re: #272 Amory Blaine

What did rev. Wright do that was wrong?

Over-generalization.

285 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:44:01am

re: #279 Amory Blaine

Donald Trump just said America is a hellhole and the rwnj eat it up.

For the last 6+ years since the Blah person has been in the White House, RWNJs have been claiming that America is no longer great.

286 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:44:37am

re: #274 Dr Lizardo

Live coverage out of Ireland:

rte.ie

Really happy to see these results. I think Ireland is a good example of why it’s important for LGBT equality campaigners to keep on fighting even in places where there has historically been hostility to LGBT rights. I also think it’s why the religious right has really amped up big time in Eastern Europe and Africa. By the way, what are the Czech attitudes? Czechs have a history of being relatively liberal compared to the rest of the former Eastern Bloc IIRC.

287 freetoken  May 23, 2015 6:45:11am

re: #272 Amory Blaine

What did rev. Wright do that was wrong?

littlegreenfootballs.com.

288 darthstar  May 23, 2015 6:45:23am
289 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 6:46:13am

re: #288 darthstar

The fucking internet is forever.

290 Amory Blaine  May 23, 2015 6:47:06am

A spoonfed trust baby like Trump has no business calling America a hellhole. Tax him at 91% then we’ll talk.

291 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 6:47:14am

re: #270 Dr. Matt

Translation: Conservatives are politically correct whiners. They disagreed with his message and then stocked up on fainting couches and pearls for clutching.

Lots of negative attacks by parties of all types are like that. I didn’t say that the attacks were ‘on base’, I said that by the standard Decatur Deb spelling out, Barack Obama’s campaign would not have survived those attacks.

It wasn’t really directed at Barack Obama, for that matter. My point was that Republican candidates should be considered disqualified simply because Josh Duggar took a selfie with them. They did not know what he had done and should not be punished for an evil they did not aid.

292 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 6:49:10am

re: #286 HappyWarrior

Really happy to see these results. I think Ireland is a good example of why it’s important for LGBT equality campaigners to keep on fighting even in places where there has historically been hostility to LGBT rights. I also think it’s why the religious right has really amped up big time in Eastern Europe and Africa. By the way, what are the Czech attitudes? Czechs have a history of being relatively liberal compared to the rest of the former Eastern Bloc IIRC.

Czech attitudes are pretty liberal; there’s no marriage equality here yet, but I reckon it’ll come in the next few years or so. Who knows? Maybe this vote in Ireland will spur things on.

I hope it does. I’ve been told, “You’re a funny kind of Muslim - supporting marriage equality and all” to which I reply, “The denial of equal rights to any person, no matter of what, is injustice. And there are commands in the Qur’an for Muslims to stand against injustice. Injustice towards the LGBT community is injustice towards all. End of story.”

Now granted, some of my co-religionists my quite vehemently disagree with me. But I know in my heart what is right.

And I will stand for it.

293 GlutenFreeJesus  May 23, 2015 6:49:17am

re: #118 allegro

I’m telling you. It’s Chuck C. with another account making it look like he has a #hotasianfan.

294 Decatur Deb  May 23, 2015 6:49:26am

re: #291 Dark_Falcon

Lots of negative attacks by parties of all types are like that. I didn’t say that the attacks were ‘on base’, I said that by the standard Decatur Deb spelling out, Barack Obama’s campaign would not have survived those attacks.

It wasn’t really directed at Barack Obama, for that matter. My point was that Republican candidates should be considered disqualified simply because Josh Duggar took a selfie with them. They did not know what he had done and should not be punished for an evil they did not aid.

They didn’t know he was after his sisters. They damn well know he’s an executive flack for an SPLC-identified hate group.

295 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 6:50:12am

Conservatives declared that Candidate Obama’s candidacy would be over if it was confirmed that one of his supporters carved a ‘B’ into that Texas girl’s face.

296 Decatur Deb  May 23, 2015 6:50:16am

re: #292 Dr Lizardo

Czech attitudes are pretty liberal; there’s no marriage equality here yet, but I reckon it’ll come in the next few years or so. Who knows? Maybe this vote in Ireland will spur things on.

I hope it does. I’ve been told, “You’re a funny kind of Muslim - supporting marriage equality and all” to which I reply, “The denial of equal rights to any person, no matter of what, is injustice. And there are commands in the Qur’an for Muslims to stand against injustice. Injustice towards the LGBT community is injustice towards all. End of story.”

Now granted, some of my co-religionists my quite vehemently disagree with me. But I know in my heart what is right.

And I will stand for it.

You’re just putting a Sufi spin on it.

297 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:50:43am

re: #294 Decatur Deb

They didn’t know he was after his sisters. They damn well know he’s an executive flack for an SPLC-identified hate group.

Mmmm hmmm.

298 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 6:51:38am

re: #296 Decatur Deb

You’re just putting a Sufi spin on it.

I see what you did there. :D

299 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:53:36am

re: #292 Dr Lizardo

Czech attitudes are pretty liberal; there’s no marriage equality here yet, but I reckon it’ll come in the next few years or so. Who knows? Maybe this vote in Ireland will spur things on.

I hope it does. I’ve been told, “You’re a funny kind of Muslim - supporting marriage equality and all” to which I reply, “The denial of equal rights to any person, no matter of what, is injustice. And there are commands in the Qur’an for Muslims to stand against injustice. Injustice towards the LGBT community is injustice towards all. End of story.”

Now granted, some of my co-religionists my quite vehemently disagree with me. But I know in my heart what is right.

And I will stand for it.

I have to say. I remember 10 years ago when I was in high school and we debated SSM. I was a minority in being vocally for its legalization. It really is amazing how attitudes have changed. I think and this is what the RR fears most is that gay people have been humanized. People aren’t buying the gay people are pedos crap anymore or the even more fucked up gay people are demonically possessed. People are seeing gay people and they’re seeing a brother, sister, father, mother, aunt, uncle, friend, etc. And I have to say this was one of the big things for me about 13 years ago when I met a somewhat distant relative who is gay. He’s a well educated and intelligent guy who came from a loving family.

300 Decatur Deb  May 23, 2015 6:54:32am

And with that i’ll just twirl on out of here. Overnight the dog forgot what our block looks like.

301 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 6:56:36am

re: #299 HappyWarrior

I have to say. I remember 10 years ago when I was in high school and we debated SSM. I was a minority in being vocally for its legalization. It really is amazing how attitudes have changed. I think and this is what the RR fears most is that gay people have been humanized. People aren’t buying the gay people are pedos crap anymore or the even more fucked up gay people are demonically possessed. People are seeing gay people and they’re seeing a brother, sister, father, mother, aunt, uncle, friend, etc. And I have to say this was one of the big things for me about 13 years ago when I met a somewhat distant relative who is gay. He’s a well educated and intelligent guy who came from a loving family.

Remember the kerfuffle over Ellen DeGeneres as a spokesperson for J.C. Penney’s ? What was that about?

Ellen DeGeneres is a normal, well-adjusted woman who’s also quite successful.

And that the RR couldn’t stand - it shoots their wackadoodle notions down. That’s what they feared the most. It’s also what they still fear.

302 darthstar  May 23, 2015 6:58:17am

re: #293 GlutenFreeJesus

I’m telling you. It’s Chuck C. with another account making it look like he has a #hotasianfan.

No…she’s a real idiot.

303 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 6:59:31am

re: #289 Justanotherhuman

304 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 6:59:38am

re: #301 Dr Lizardo

Remember the kerfuffle over Ellen DeGeneres as a spokesperson for J.C. Penney’s ? What was that about?

Ellen DeGeneres is a normal, well-adjusted woman who’s also quite successful.

And that the RR couldn’t stand - it shoots their wackadoodle notions down. That’s what they feared the most. It’s also what they still fear.

Yeah I definitely do remember that and that incident I think showed to me brilliantly what the RR fears the most. They fear gay men and women like Ellen because Ellen really shreds their bullshit about gay people to pieces. I think this is also why Putin pushed the gay “propaganda” ban. Anti-gay bigots are petrified of gay people being seen as people. It’s the same thing with anti-Islam crap.

305 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 7:00:53am

re: #302 darthstar

No…she’s a real idiot.

[Embedded content]

A real rock scientist this one.

306 GlutenFreeJesus  May 23, 2015 7:01:53am
307 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 7:02:44am

re: #302 darthstar

No…she’s a real idiot.

[Embedded content]

A real idiot, to be sure, but I still don’t think the person posting those tweets is an Asian woman. I think its some pseudo-Nazi loser posing as an Asian woman.

308 ObserverArt  May 23, 2015 7:02:48am

re: #284 Decatur Deb

Over-generalization.

And doing it while Black.

How is The Donald calling America a ‘hell hole” all that different from Rev, Wright saying “God Damn America?”

Color and Party.

Dark_Falcon, you work too hard for what you will ever get from the LGF crowd. People around here are way too smart to know the context of Rev. Wrights words. He was and is still correct in what he was saying.

By the way, how much blowback on The Donald?

Figures.

309 GlutenFreeJesus  May 23, 2015 7:03:21am

re: #302 darthstar

Which is why I think it’s him making it look like he’s got a #hotasianfan who is actually using a photo of a known model. ;)

310 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 7:04:21am

The Internet. Where men are women, where women are women, and where children are cops.

311 Nyet  May 23, 2015 7:10:19am

re: #272 Amory Blaine

What did rev. Wright do that was wrong?

Being a conspiracy-mongering antisemitic douche.

312 darthstar  May 23, 2015 7:14:18am

re: #309 GlutenFreeJesus

Which is why I think it’s him making it look like he’s got a #hotasianfan who is actually using a photo of a known model. ;)

She’s got 95000 tweets. He spends a lot of time on twitter.

313 Mike Lamb  May 23, 2015 7:15:04am

re: #273 freetoken

Duggar defender in action:

[Embedded content]

This is stunning to me. He molested five children. It’s not even a matter of debate. He did it. His family and church covered it up. How do you support that? It’s not like the show was booted for political views, which, even if I disagreed with said views, would make more sense in terms of a boycott by conservatives. The Duggars should not be defensible.

314 Nyet  May 23, 2015 7:16:22am

re: #267 Dr. Matt

False equivalency. There was no “Bill Ayers / Jeremiah Wright mess”. Those were manufactured outrages from the GOP/Fox “news”.

The Wright thing was a nontroversy at first, so much that Obama made a point of not distancing himself from Wright in his famous race relations speech. But then Wright apparently decided that he didn’t get enough attention and staged a weird NPC presser, which didn’t help things. So much in fact, that at that point Obama disavowed Wright and left that church. Basically, the fact that he was attacked by wingnuts doesn’t cancel out the fact that he’s a dick.

315 WhatEVs  May 23, 2015 7:16:26am

From the Duggar article at TPM:

“It’s between the family members and was addressed a long time ago but it’s new to the public,” Woods said. “The family had time to heal and now the public needs time to heal.”

I wonder how many guys in prison would have loved it to have been a family matter. Why have laws, then?

Fuckers.

316 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 7:19:02am

Damn, missed my chance to get a “degree”. ///

But evidently, saved a shit-ton of money.

Fake Diplomas, Real Cash: Pakistani Company Axact Reaps Millions

nytimes.com

How many “schools” in the US are barely doing more than this company?

317 Nyet  May 23, 2015 7:21:01am

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

Uh, the Ayers connection is a fabrication.

318 freetoken  May 23, 2015 7:23:24am

re: #313 Mike Lamb

As Christian America wakes up this morning more and more posts are being put online about how we should not throw stones at Josh Duggar.

As I pointed out in one tweet, the irony of that stance is that Josh and his mother are professional stone throwers.

319 GlutenFreeJesus  May 23, 2015 7:23:43am

re: #312 darthstar

She’s got 95000 tweets. He spends a lot of time on twitter.

You mean in the bathroom on his iphone, away from his hot Asian wife’s eyes.

320 Mattand  May 23, 2015 7:25:08am

re: #313 Mike Lamb

This is stunning to me. He molested five children. It’s not even a matter of debate. He did it. His family and church covered it up. How do you support that? It’s not like the show was booted for political views, which, even if I disagreed with said views, would make more sense in terms of a boycott by conservatives. The Duggars should not be defensible.

Simple: they’re white and Christian, so much of America is going to shrug and go “Eh, you can’t have a giant family without molesting a few defenseless children.”

If they weren’t white or Christian? Hoo boy. Don’t even want to think about it.

321 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 7:30:11am

re: #317 Nyet

Uh, the Ayers connection is a fabrication.

Obama knew Ayers, though not very well. But again, my point wasn’t about wrongdoing by Barack Obama, which I did not say there was any. What I said was that if a standard being put forward by Decatur Deb had been applied to Barack Obama in 2008, then Barack Obama’s campaign would have been destroyed before it really got off the ground.

322 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 7:33:30am

For the record, neither Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright have ever committed a crime and I was never intending to compare their actions to those of Josh Duggar. I was trying to illustrate a point, not go after Barack Obama.

323 Blind Frog Belly White  May 23, 2015 7:34:17am

re: #321 Dark_Falcon

Nonsense. Ayers, 4 decades prior, was a member of a radical group, which he left, and left behind the violence. The Duggars are CURRENTLY misogynist patriarchal theocrats.

324 darthstar  May 23, 2015 7:35:20am

re: #321 Dark_Falcon

Obama knew Ayers, though not very well. But again, my point wasn’t about wrongdoing by Barack Obama, which I did not say there was any. What I said was that if a standard being put forward by Decatur Deb had been applied to Barack Obama in 2008, then Barack Obama’s campaign would have been destroyed before it really got off the ground.

HE WAS EIGHT FUCKING YEARS OLD.

325 ObserverArt  May 23, 2015 7:36:05am

All the GOP and their Karl Rove types ever wanted out of Rev. Wright was some sound bites. They never cared what he really meant good, bad or indifferent. They knew most of the RWNJs would never get past the sound bites. They lap up the initial story and live with that no matter what facts ever come to light down the road.

It is no different than the Duggar stuff. To the RWNJs, especially the fundie religious types, they probably see this whole story as an attack on a good Christian family and man. The Duggars were smart to hide it all and keep building the reputation. They can rely on all that now.

It’s like that “Leave Brittany Alone” meme.

326 darthstar  May 23, 2015 7:36:09am

re: #322 Dark_Falcon

For the record, neither Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright have ever committed a crime and I was never intending to compare their actions to those of Josh Duggar. I was trying to illustrate a point, not go after Barack Obama.

Your MBF has a defective wing and is spinning wildly toward earth.

327 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 7:36:11am
328 Blind Frog Belly White  May 23, 2015 7:36:49am

re: #323 Blind Frog Belly White

Which, BTW was Decatur Deb’s point - the problem with the embrace of the Duggars isn’t their possibly pedophile son. It’s their fucked-up Christofascist worldview.

329 wrenchwench  May 23, 2015 7:37:10am

re: #322 Dark_Falcon

For the record, neither Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright have ever committed a crime and I was never intending to compare their actions to those of Josh Duggar. I was trying to illustrate a point, not go after Barack Obama.

In the process, you went after Barack Obama, intentionally or not.

330 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 7:37:16am

re: #325 ObserverArt

The Duggars committed a criminal act in “hiding” it.

331 ObserverArt  May 23, 2015 7:37:55am

re: #324 darthstar

HE WAS EIGHT FUCKING YEARS OLD.

Gotta watch that impressionable youth thing.

///

332 wrenchwench  May 23, 2015 7:39:28am
333 Nyet  May 23, 2015 7:40:52am

re: #321 Dark_Falcon

re: #321 Dark_Falcon

1. Ayers was a neighbor, and that’s about the extent of the connection (I recall something about a fundraiser in at Ayers’ home, but that doesn’t prove anything, really).

2. Wingnut pols taking photos with Josh before his past became known doesn’t mean anything (well, it does in some sense, but not in connection with the molestation charges). But some teasing is still in order.

334 ObserverArt  May 23, 2015 7:41:12am

re: #318 freetoken

As Christian America wakes up this morning more and more posts are being put online about how we should not throw stones at Josh Duggar.

As I pointed out in one tweet, the irony of that stance is that Josh and his mother are professional stone throwers.

Difference being, the Duggars throw God’s stones. It is a good thing.

The media are throwing bad stones at a good man. The work of The Devil!

Again: “Leave Josh Duggar alone!”

335 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 7:42:55am

re: #333 Nyet

1. Ayers was a neighbor, and that’s about the extent of the connection (I recall something about a fundraiser in at Ayers’ home, but that doesn’t prove anything, really).

2. Wingnut pols taking photos with Josh before his past became known doesn’t mean anything (well, it does in some sense, but not in connection with the molestation charges). But some teasing is still in order.

Both of those points work well for me. I wasn’t trying to state anything more as fact.

336 bratwurst  May 23, 2015 7:42:56am

re: #321 Dark_Falcon

O What I said was that if a standard being put forward by Decatur Deb had been applied to Barack Obama in 2008, then Barack Obama’s campaign would have been destroyed before it really got off the ground.

Newsflash: Very many people attempted to apply such a standard to Obama (that his associations alone disqualified him from office).

They failed. Twice.

337 sffilk  May 23, 2015 7:43:20am

One word about this turn of events:

GOOD!!

338 Eventual Carrion  May 23, 2015 7:44:05am

re: #246 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Double!

I think god is getting forgetful. Gay is punished by earthquakes and hurricanes. Maybe he couldn’t hear the US evangelicals reminding him while he was all the way over in that socialist Europe.

339 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 7:45:33am

re: #336 bratwurst

Newsflash: Very many people attempted to apply such a standard to Obama (that his associations alone disqualified him from office).

They failed. Twice.

I know they attempted to apply that standard, but it didn’t stick. And I do not now believe it should have stuck.

340 ObserverArt  May 23, 2015 7:45:33am

re: #330 Justanotherhuman

The Duggars committed a criminal act in “hiding” it.

I know. But they were able to hide it and build the family rep and they will use it now to gloss over it and ask for good will for a sick individual that just needs more of God’s love and not the reputation as a predator he deserves.

341 freetoken  May 23, 2015 7:47:03am

More and more Duggar-DARVO is now showing up, from the usual outlets, such as The Blaze and WesternJournalism.

342 Eventual Carrion  May 23, 2015 7:50:02am

re: #272 Amory Blaine

What did rev. Wright do that was wrong?

Spoke the truth.

343 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 7:50:14am

BUT LENA DUNHAM BRAGGED ABOUT IT. Lena Dunham was also six years old and also not a serial molester either. Really goes to show you everything you need to know about how right wingers view morals that they defend this shithead and act like Lena Dunham is the worst person ever though we know damn well if Lena shared their twisted worldview, they’d defend her too. It’s all about team conservative Christian.

344 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 7:51:17am

re: #338 Eventual Carrion

I think god is getting forgetful. Gay is punished by earthquakes and hurricanes. Maybe he couldn’t hear the US evangelicals reminding him while he was all the way over in that socialist Europe.

I wonder how ‘ol Bill Donohue (of the Catholic League) is taking all this? I suspect that he’s somewhere, weeping softly. Maybe joined by Tony Scalia and Pat Buchanan.

Heh.

345 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 7:56:39am

O_O

346 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 7:57:51am

re: #345 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

O_O

137 bullets. Jesus.

347 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 8:00:11am

re: #346 HappyWarrior

137 bullets. Jesus.

137 bullets? Seriously?! Sounds more like the opening salvo at the Battle of the Somme.

348 freetoken  May 23, 2015 8:00:38am

re: #345 Backwoods_Sleuth

I am not amazed. Frustrated, but not amazed.

349 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 8:01:38am
350 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 8:03:29am

re: #347 Dr Lizardo

137 bullets? Seriously?! Sounds more like the opening salvo at the Battle of the Somme.

You’d have to multiply 137 by 10,000 to be close in regards to the Somme.

351 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:05:41am

re: #347 Dr Lizardo

137 bullets? Seriously?! Sounds more like the opening salvo at the Battle of the Somme.

Yeah seriously. Sounds more like a battle.

352 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 8:06:24am
353 darthstar  May 23, 2015 8:07:45am
354 freetoken  May 23, 2015 8:09:42am

Non-vetted online gossip column claims:

An insider tells NAUGHTY GOSSIP exclusively, “TLC is about to clean house with upper level staff that knew about the Duggar family molestation secret. It has been a well-known fact among members of the TLC team for YEARS - and nobody did a thing until it hit the public.”

355 allegro  May 23, 2015 8:09:49am

re: #353 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Ketchup on hotdogs is like pineapple on pizza. George, you are dead to me now.

////

356 freetoken  May 23, 2015 8:10:11am

re: #355 allegro

Mustard only.

357 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 8:10:33am

re: #350 Dark_Falcon

You’d have to multiply 137 by 10,000 to be close in regards to the Somme.

Of course; I was being facetious.

Still; 137 rounds? Damn.

358 darthstar  May 23, 2015 8:10:40am

re: #356 freetoken

Mustard only.

Same problem for white pants.

359 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:10:48am

re: #354 freetoken

Non-vetted online gossip column claims:

Maybe TLC will stop airing garbage like this and Honey Boo Boo. Nah, they’ll probably find some other trashy family to parade out for profits.

360 allegro  May 23, 2015 8:11:04am

re: #356 freetoken

Mustard only.

Mustard, relish, and onions. There. Perfect.

361 freetoken  May 23, 2015 8:11:17am

re: #358 darthstar

Same problem for white pants.

I have never owned white pants, and never will.

362 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:11:23am

re: #360 allegro

Mustard, relish, and onions. There. Perfect.

Sauerkraut.

363 ObserverArt  May 23, 2015 8:12:05am

Damn. Cleveland, get your shit together. You have real problems. It makes me never want to visit the city that I loved as a kid and have loved since.

And Dark, sometimes being factual when someone is making a point is not really needed. In a way, it seems like you are tamping down the outrage of the cops getting way too gun happy. And with your reputation for war facts and gun love it is not hard to see it that way.

Can’t people just be pissed off by a rotten decision? These were real people that didn’t deserves what they got. It is a city with people that do not deserve what they are getting.

This shit has got to stop.

364 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 8:12:48am

re: #359 HappyWarrior

Maybe TLC will stop airing garbage like this and Honey Boo Boo. Nah, they’ll probably find some other trashy family to parade out for profits.

“Snake Handlin’ With The Schaffers!”

New from TLC this autumn!!

365 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:15:09am

re: #364 Dr Lizardo

“Snake Handlin’ With The Schaffers!”

New from TLC this autumn!!

I was talking with my brother yesterday about one of our old favorite shows on the History Channel- haunted history. I mean whether you believe in ghosts or not, ghosts are part of our history since ghost stories are part of folklore that goes back to the beginnings of civilization and the show had interesting bits about the history of the regions that were featured on the show. And also when the History Channel was the “Hitler Channel”, it also was still history at least. I have YouTube embed into my PS3 so I can watch old documentaries.

366 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:17:42am

mentalfloss.com
Gotta make some of these. The Cleveland is the most inviting to me. It reminds me of the famous Primanti Bros sandwiches in Pittsburgh that have cole slaw and fries on them too. Sounds weird but it’s so good.

367 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 8:17:43am

Someone posted a Daily Mail story above, so i wanted to link to this other DM story. It’s a very good chronology of what happened when with the Duggars:

How this squeaky-clean photo launched the Duggars to fame in 2002 and belied their sordid molestation secret at home… as TLC helped them build a down-home empire for nine years AFTER Oprah reported the abuse

In just the past 10 years, the Duggars have gone from being a large, unknown family living in Arkansas to the stars of one of America’s longest running, and most loved, reality TV shows.

It all began when producers happened upon a photo of Jim Bob Duggar and his wife, Michelle, heading out to vote in his unsuccessful 2002 run for a seat in the United States Senate.

In the image, the couple beam as they are trailed by their children - at the time, 13 of them - who are perfectly lined up and all wearing matching red outfits. At the back is their eldest son, Josh.

The family would soon be profiled in a magazine, and then offered their first one-episode show.

Here’s that photo:

Image: 28FC82CC00000578-3093136-image-a-1_1432330836812.jpg

And even though it’s the Daily Mail, the article is good. It gives the reader a full look at what was happening when, from 2002 to now.

368 ObserverArt  May 23, 2015 8:17:45am

Later all…wood stain is calling my name!

369 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 8:19:03am

re: #365 HappyWarrior

I was talking with my brother yesterday about one of our old favorite shows on the History Channel- haunted history. I mean whether you believe in ghosts or not, ghosts are part of our history since ghost stories are part of folklore that goes back to the beginnings of civilization and the show had interesting bits about the history of the regions that were featured on the show. And also when the History Channel was the “Hitler Channel”, it also was still history at least. I have YouTube embed into my PS3 so I can watch old documentaries.

I liked Haunted History; it was pretty good.

370 freetoken  May 23, 2015 8:19:41am

re: #367 Dark_Falcon

That someone was probably me. The DailyFail earned their nickname. Nevertheless, their desire for icky stories leads them to digging into the Duggars.

371 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:21:08am

re: #369 Dr Lizardo

I liked Haunted History; it was pretty good.

It was fun. I really like ghost stories. I got really close to taking a folklore class for my English minor. Ended up doing post WWII literature instead but that would have been neat. I did attend a guest lecture where the professor who teaches the class talked about some of the local folklore and legends including the infamous Bunny Man story. I told that one to my brother’s friends on the way back from the beach one summer night and those guys were legitimately scared.

372 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 8:21:08am

damm

373 #FergusonFireside  May 23, 2015 8:23:11am
374 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 8:24:04am
375 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 8:24:46am
376 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:24:56am

re: #374 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Yeah how oppressive of the government to charge his client for shooting someone unarmed.// Really I get that everyone’s entitled a defense and Officer Brelo is no exception but come the fuck on man.

377 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:25:37am

re: #375 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

But smoking a joint is a crime. What a fucking beautiful world.

378 freetoken  May 23, 2015 8:26:43am

Those Irish poll workers, sorting pieces of paper to count votes, apparently one vote per piece of paper.

How quaint.

379 darthstar  May 23, 2015 8:27:44am
380 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 8:30:29am

re: #378 freetoken

Those Irish poll workers, sorting pieces of paper to count votes, apparently one vote per piece of paper.

How quaint.

381 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:32:10am

re: #379 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Huckabee again shows why he’s a disgusting piece of shit that should have to listen to gay love poems at gun point. And yes that’s a joke- in reference to Huckabee thinking we should listen to David Barton at gunpoint.

382 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 8:33:15am

I think I need one of these:

383 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:33:54am

re: #380 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Cue bitching about how millenials don’t know nothing. Seriously though really touching news out of the home of my ancestors today. Ireland moving forward on this gives me hope that maybe other parts of the world that right now are hostile to gay people can learn that love is more important than hate.

384 stpaulbear  May 23, 2015 8:34:40am

re: #370 freetoken

That someone was probably me. The DailyFail earned their nickname. Nevertheless, their desire for icky stories leads them to digging into the Duggars.

I posted a link to the DailyFail too. I got the link from a gay news site that I like. I’d never been to that site before. I’ll know better now.

385 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 8:36:53am

And there is already a GoFundMe for Brelo.

Of course…

386 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:37:50am

re: #385 Backwoods_Sleuth

And there is already a GoFundMe for Brelo.

Of course…

To be expected sadly.

387 freetoken  May 23, 2015 8:38:55am

There is finally one constituency which voted “No” in Ireland on the gay marriage issue. Looks to be quite rural. However, it’s pretty clear nationally the amendment passed by around 60-40.

388 BeachDem  May 23, 2015 8:40:53am

re: #294 Decatur Deb

They didn’t know he was after his sisters. They damn well know he’s an executive flack for an SPLC-identified hate group.

Bears repeating. Thank you.

389 freetoken  May 23, 2015 8:41:54am
Josh Duggar has pulled the plug on a conference he was scheduled to attend in the most ironic of places … Sandusky, Ohio.

Josh was supposed to speak at a home schooling convention next week, but in the wake of his public sexual molestation admission, we’ve learned he’s cancelled the appearance.

We’re told Josh told the organizers he would be too much of a distraction and didn’t want the focus of the conference blurred.

We’re also told convention organizers are commending Josh and his parents, saying they’ve handled the matter well and it all reflects back on Christ.

Well, if they say so.

390 allegro  May 23, 2015 8:45:20am

re: #389 freetoken

Well, if they say so.

every molested kid reading that is probably saying “fuck Christ” right about now. Great PR there.

391 Nyet  May 23, 2015 8:46:46am

re: #367 Dark_Falcon

You know, your constant promotion of DailyMail, which is known to invent stories, doesn’t add to your credibility. If you find a golden nugget in that dung pile, you may as well search for it in other sources.

392 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 8:47:34am

re: #387 freetoken

There is finally one constituency which voted “No” in Ireland on the gay marriage issue. Looks to be quite rural. However, it’s pretty clear nationally the amendment passed by around 60-40.

Bob Dylan said it best, oh so many years ago.

393 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 8:47:46am

re: #389 freetoken

Well, if they say so.

Glad to know the convention organizers commend molesting your sisters and your parents not going to the police for over a year about it but yeah it’s gay people and secularism that are the problem not a twisted form of Christianity that deems women deserve to be sexually assaulted if they dress “immodesty.” The Duggars if they had any decency left would stop smearing gay people and admit their own moral hypocrisy but they won’t and Christian conservatives will keep on cheering the family on and keeping them very wealthy.

394 CleverToad  May 23, 2015 8:47:53am

re: #382 Backwoods_Sleuth

Baby dwagon!
Have to be careful if it breathes fire, though

395 Nyet  May 23, 2015 8:51:13am

re: #394 CleverToad

Don’t feed it chili!

396 freetoken  May 23, 2015 8:54:49am

re: #393 HappyWarrior

Lots of “Christian” bloggers making excuses for the Duggars this morning.

397 freetoken  May 23, 2015 8:58:08am

This is what we’re seeing this morning:

Josh tendered his resignation to the Family Research Council and they accepted it. While none of us know all of the details, if Josh were in my employ, I would not have accepted his resignation.

I would have shouted from the rooftops, “If you think Josh is wicked, you should meet the rest of us! That is why we are Christians! We need forgiveness for being wretched, vile, wicked rebels. If you are a rebel too, Jesus died for you! Run to Jesus! Join the wretched club.”

Let’s not squander this opportunity to share the great good news that Jesus died for perverts, liars, thieves, drunkards, abortionists, Wall Street fat cats, skid row bums, suburban housewives, blue collar workers and every sinner who will come to Him in repentance and faith.

Josh Duggar’s story is more than a Gospel tragedy; it is a Gospel opportunity. Don’t waste it.

398 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 23, 2015 8:59:16am

Is anyone here clever with WordPress themes? The theme I am using for gotnwes.com is not compatible with WP4.2.2, and the single post layout is all screwed up — the sidebar is being pushed below the footer area.

I spent a lot of time tweaking this theme to resemble UpChuck’s site (without using his theme), and would like to fix the single post layout so the sidebar is, like, on the side. I really don’t want to futz around installing an entirely new theme unless I have to.

Thanks in advance.

399 freetoken  May 23, 2015 9:01:23am

re: #398 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

There are too many choices of WP themes to know what to recommend.

You could just browse the thousands available and try some and see what fits?

400 BeachDem  May 23, 2015 9:01:49am

re: #397 freetoken

This is what we’re seeing this morning:

That officially creeped me out. Thanks??

401 HappyWarrior  May 23, 2015 9:02:46am

re: #397 freetoken

This is what we’re seeing this morning:

He was a practicing Christian before, while he was molesting girls, and afters. They can try to spin it all they want but they’re hypocritical assholes who would have fired Josh if it came out he was gay or had supported a Democratic candidate.

402 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 23, 2015 9:05:12am

Also, Chucky has identified the anonymous supporter of Emma Sulkowicz’ version of her rape on his blog. Chuck claims the person who corroborated Emma’s version is a gay black man.

403 freetoken  May 23, 2015 9:06:07am
404 freetoken  May 23, 2015 9:06:55am

I predict the derp over the Duggars will grow throughout the day.

405 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 23, 2015 9:07:03am

re: #399 freetoken

There are too many choices of WP themes to know what to recommend.

You could just browse the thousands available and try some and see what fits?

No, what I really am asking is someone to tweak the theme so that it works correctly. I don’t want to install a new one unless I have no other choice.

It’s one of those cases where a developer has ceased maintaining a theme or plugin, which then breaks when WP gets updated.

406 Targetpractice  May 23, 2015 9:08:35am

re: #397 freetoken

This is what we’re seeing this morning:

407 urbanmeemaw  May 23, 2015 9:08:55am

re: #123 subterraneanhomesickalien

I developed IT band issues before my last marathon. In almost 30 years of running that was not a problem I’d experienced before.

I had 3 intense deep tissue massage therapy sessions shortly before the event and did not have a problem during or after the race.

Have you tried deep tissue massage? Or Pilates on a reformer? I’ve heard cases in which people who had injuries their doctors said required surgery tried Pilates and they didn’t need the surgery.

All that said, of course you need to follow your own guidance here. Have you asked your doctor if there are any other alternatives to try other than the ones you’ve done? If it were me I’d do everything I could to avoid surgery, though sometimes that is the only option.

408 Higgs Boson's Mate  May 23, 2015 9:10:52am

re: #397 freetoken

Someone struck gold here. Watch the outpouring of variations on, “You liberals are evil because you won’t accept that Josh Duggar has been Forgiven.”

First, Josh Duggar isn’t mine to forgive. Second, we’re looking at a form of Christianity that is deeply disturbed.

I’ve become convinced that religions can get old, and sick, and slightly demented.

409 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate  May 23, 2015 9:11:19am

re: #405 wheat-dogghazi-mailgate

No, what I really am asking is someone to tweak the theme so that it works correctly. I don’t want to install a new one unless I have no other choice.

It’s one of those cases where a developer has ceased maintaining a theme or plugin, which then breaks when WP gets updated.

In any event, I’m not going to deal with it right now, as it’s midnight here. I’ve turned on my email with this comment, so if anyone has any ideas, please drop me a line.

Laterz, lizards!

410 Targetpractice  May 23, 2015 9:16:37am

That has got to be one of the laziest defenses out there, “God has forgiven me!” Well, that’s between you and God. I don’t answer to God, and I consider you hypocritical jackass who has no right to climb up upon your high horse and call others “deviants.”

411 urbanmeemaw  May 23, 2015 9:17:23am

re: #192 freetoken

I wonder how TLC would decide Josh’s fate if people in the Twitterverse relentlessly tweeted “Touching Little Children” network enough to cause major trending.

412 CleverToad  May 23, 2015 9:19:01am

re: #395 Nyet

Dragons probably love chili.
Just clear all of the combustible bedding out of the cage on TexMex night

413 freetoken  May 23, 2015 9:25:12am

The great internet gossip column is in full flow. Another unvetted story:

[…]

During this time, the Duggars had very limited exposure to what they called the “outside world” and so most of the crew members being from larger cities, we were all very surprised at how very little they knew or understood about places like New York, Los Angeles, and London. All of their perceptions of these places were the most exaggerated stereotype cariacatures as if their only source of news was from locally produced religious cartoons from the 1980s. As in, LA is full of surfer dudes and Valley girls, and everyone in New York talks and walks like John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever, walks in packs carrying switchblades, spray paints graffiti at every turn, with the only safe haven oddly being the mighty Trump Tower. Yes, Trump Tower was Jim Bob’s go-to when talking anecdotally about the elegance of lavish and luxurious places. … They didn’t own a television or had an Internet connection at that time, so, really, next to second hand church gossip, the local newspaper was really their only link to anything outside of Arkansas. The producers of the show had instructed crew members to not ever engage in conversation on our own with Jim Bob or Michelle in fears that we may either say something normal that they would find objectionable or that they would say something to where we’d react funny because we weren’t used to their level of “unwordliness” I think it was put.

We were constantly reminded that we were not to upset them or taint their version of the world, which is why they wanted limited conversation. Even a lighthearted conversation that might actually educate them about something they were horribly ignorant about was seen as tainting their view. It was very much like being told to not tell your little sister about Santa Claus.

So, during the leadup to their first family trip to New York to appear on the Today Show, Michelle started approaching some of us about New York and if it’s “scary for kids”. Because Michelle came to us, it was acceptable to entertain conversing with her but producers would always rush over and monitor the conversation. That very day we had a couple of crewmembers new to the set not familiar with the drill. She had directed this question to four of us who all happened to be standing together. As tempting as it was to give some ridiculous answer, the producer’s face reminded us to just be polite and give her the answer she wants. Well, the followup question is when it went completely off the rails. “Well, I hear the city is overrun by ….. gays… has that been causing a lot of problems?” One of the new crewmembers laughed and said “Why don’t you ask “Jimmy”? (Changed his name) and then proceeds to yell over his shoulder “Hey, Jimmy, you giving the city lots of problems???” Jimmy as you can guess, was gay, but this fact was completely lost on the Duggars.

It took her a minute to process that the joke answer might mean that there might really be one of these gays she’s always heard about nearby! In her house, even! She pulled the producer over to the corner and started yelling at him and demanding to know if what was just said was a joke, and that she wants to see Jimmy. We’re all watching this go down from a distance dying inside at how funny this was, and how shit is about to really hit a very big fan. The producer is now in a very tough position, because Jimmy is a veteran of the industry and is excellent at what he does, but now the Duggars’ weird uncultured Pollyanna worldview is threatening to disrupt the production staff. We could see the producer trying to calm her down and offering to have a talk with Jimmy (who we all thought was at a rig about 500 feet away, far enough out of ear shot) when suddenly Jimmy appears. …

Michelle asked point blank “So … you’re …. gay???” The four of us are staring at this from a distance as if we’re on the edge of our seats, completely shocked that someone in 2008 would even do that, and Jimmy … suddenly strikes a pose like a model in a pinup photo, and responds “Well, darling, depends on who’s asking!” Holy shit, the four of us watching were doubled over in pain laughing so hard at this. …

Well, when we returned, we found out that Jimmy was removed, fired from the set, and transferred to another production, and that none of us are to breathe a word of what we saw to anyone.

[…]

414 urbanmeemaw  May 23, 2015 9:26:39am

re: #266 Dr. Matt

The new Republican talking point will be “religious freedom”, and Toddles will dutifully repeat it.

415 Dr. Matt  May 23, 2015 9:31:40am

re: #403 freetoken

416 retired cynic  May 23, 2015 9:31:48am

re: #382 Backwoods_Sleuth

A baby Hungarian Horntail!

417 Targetpractice  May 23, 2015 9:33:58am

re: #413 freetoken

The great internet gossip column is in full flow. Another unvetted story:

The longer this goes on, the more damaging its going to be for TLC. I really don’t believe for a second that they had this long an association with the family and none of its dark secrets ever got talked about.

418 retired cynic  May 23, 2015 9:35:14am

re: #408 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Someone struck gold here. Watch the outpouring of variations on, “You liberals are evil because you won’t accept that Josh Duggar has been Forgiven.”

First, Josh Duggar isn’t mine to forgive. Second, we’re looking at a form of Christianity that is deeply disturbed.

I’ve become convinced that religions can get old, and sick, and slightly demented.

Or they can start out that way.

419 jaunte  May 23, 2015 9:39:32am

re: #408 Higgs Boson’s Mate

Someone struck gold here. Watch the outpouring of variations on, “You liberals are evil because you won’t accept that Josh Duggar has been Forgiven.

The problem is, everyone just has to take their word for the big Forgiveness, since the system described operates post-mortem. In the meantime we’re a nation of laws, and a society which operates to a large degree on public pressure.

420 Amory Blaine  May 23, 2015 9:39:44am

Conservatives standing with the Duggers may be disgusting, but they should be encouraged to be as vocal as possible.

421 freetoken  May 23, 2015 9:41:05am

re: #417 Targetpractice

I expect there to be a lot under the hood. I just wonder what the greater fallout will be.

Earlier this morning TMZ claimed that TLC was considering just dropping Josh from the cast. I can’t believe higher ups in the Discovery corporation will be able to let the ride, if indeed General Mills has pulled advertising, which would signal others exiting later.

The only show on TLC that I have ever watched is Who Do You Think You Are. I can’t really grok some of the other shows’ appeal.

422 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 9:43:01am

re: #417 Targetpractice

The longer this goes on, the more damaging its going to be for TLC. I really don’t believe for a second that they had this long an association with the family and none of its dark secrets ever got talked about.

I don’t believe that TLC had any real knowledge of what was going on. When they accepted the plan to maintain secrets, they sort of forced themselves to look the other way as well. I guess what I’m trying to say is if they worked hard to keep the Duggars away from society’s dirty little secrets, they didn’t look hard at the Duggars’ dirty little secrets either.

423 stpaulbear  May 23, 2015 9:49:40am

I’ve been watching the news from Ireland today and re-watching some videos of an activist named Panti Bliss. She’s had a really strong roll in giving people an idea of what it’s like to experience LGBT discrimination on a daily basis, and these two clips are well worth the time.

424 jaunte  May 23, 2015 9:50:51am
425 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 9:51:07am

re: #418 retired cynic

These people aren’t about “religion” at all; it’s about money and power.

Anyone who acts “holier than thou” like that crowd can kiss my ass.

426 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 9:51:48am

re: #410 Targetpractice

That has got to be one of the laziest defenses out there, “God has forgiven me!” Well, that’s between you and God. I don’t answer to God, and I consider you hypocritical jackass who has no right to climb up upon your high horse and call others “deviants.”

Quite Concur. And I’d go a few better in this case:

1. While I can accept Josh Duggar’s saying understanding he did wrong and being sorry for having wronged others, the fact still remains that what he did was sufficiently odious as to disqualify him from any public facing position for the medium-term future, and possibly forever. If you commit acts the public find egregious, you can justly expect to be ostracized. Forgiveness does not mean you don’t get punished.

2. Based on this story, the local Child and Family Services in the municipality where Josh Duggar lives need to take a close look at his family. This should be done be done honestly and fairly, of course, but someone who has acted as he did needs to be monitored.

427 Charles Johnson  May 23, 2015 9:53:02am
428 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 9:53:58am

re: #427 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

It was epic.

Stupid. But epic.

429 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 9:55:03am

re: #427 Charles Johnson

re: #428 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’ll take your word for it.

430 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 9:55:09am
431 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 9:55:56am
432 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 9:56:44am

re: #430 Backwoods_Sleuth

That’s probably going a bit far.

433 Charles Johnson  May 23, 2015 9:56:59am
434 Targetpractice  May 23, 2015 9:57:57am

re: #421 freetoken

I expect there to be a lot under the hood. I just wonder what the greater fallout will be.

Earlier this morning TMZ claimed that TLC was considering just dropping Josh from the cast. I can’t believe higher ups in the Discovery corporation will be able to let the ride, if indeed General Mills has pulled advertising, which would signal others exiting later.

The only show on TLC that I have ever watched is Who Do You Think You Are. I can’t really grok some of the other shows’ appeal.

It would not surprise me that TLC is thinking they can salvage the show just by kicking Josh off the island. They already lost one cash cow with Honey Boo-Boo, they probably figure they can’t afford to lose another. So just making a big noise about kicking Josh out the door is, in their minds, a reasonable “compromise.” What they don’t get is that he’s not the biggest offender here, the paterfamilias is. And there’s no way to kick him out and keep the show going.

435 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 9:58:20am

re: #432 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Nope.
137 bullets went into that car.

436 freetoken  May 23, 2015 9:58:24am

re: #433 Charles Johnson

I always suspected you of being a fellow Trotskyite.

437 stpaulbear  May 23, 2015 9:59:52am

re: #421 freetoken

I can’t believe higher ups in the Discovery corporation will be able to let the ride, if indeed General Mills has pulled advertising, which would signal others exiting later.

Someone is going to have to start burning Cheerios (“really the treat now for the homosexuals”) again. This guy can’t do it because he had a heart attack and died two days after he made the video. Hatred is not good for the heart.

438 makeitstop  May 23, 2015 10:00:12am

re: #426 Dark_Falcon

Based on this story, the local Child and Family Services in the municipality where Josh Duggar lives need to take a close look at his family. This should be done be done honestly and fairly, of course, but someone who has acted as he did needs to be monitored.

But that will never happen, for the very same reason that Josh Duggar is not on a national sex offender’s list and/or sitting in a prison cell where he belongs:

His father is politically connected, and will call in whatever favors necessary to shield his ‘heir’ from the punishment he deserves,

So much defense of a deviant going on this morning. Everyone is boo-hooing over how badly poor, poor Josh is being treated.

Meanwhile, there are five girls, some of them his own family, who are no doubt psychologically damaged from this episode. I’ve seen not a single word in their defense.

Jim Bob Duggar threw a number of his own goddamned daughters right under the bus, in the name of defending his sexual deviant son.

Some Christians. I’m beyond belief at how far these people will go to defend a piece of crap child molester.

439 allegro  May 23, 2015 10:00:28am

re: #434 Targetpractice

It would not surprise me that TLC is thinking they can salvage the show just by kicking Josh off the island. They already lost one cash cow with Honey Boo-Boo, they probably figure they can’t afford to lose another. So just making a big noise about kicking Josh out the door is, in their minds, a reasonable “compromise.” What they don’t get is that he’s not the biggest offender here, the paterfamilias is. And there’s no way to kick him out and keep the show going.

Josh is totally a product of his environment. That’s why I actually feel a bit of empathy for the guy. His parents, not one bit.

440 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 10:00:57am
441 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:03:03am

I’m going to go out on a limb here and argue that the officer probably thought he was being a hero by jumping onto the hood and firing into that car. Once you’ve heard a hundred plus shots being fired, it is probably hard to tell who’s doing all the shooting. The officer probably thought the suspects had fired at somebody and he was probably full of fear and adrenaline, as opposed to an officer who shoots somebody in the back.

442 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 10:03:33am

re: #424 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I just respond to all “You cannot excuse bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior.” And I know Bill O’Reilly said that first, but he’s been hypocritical enough to forfeit credit for saying it. So call it the Anti-MBF Incantation.

And even without that, the those ‘examples’ are hogwash except that of Polanski. Allen’s level of wrongdoing was far less than Duggar’s and not even criminal. Dunham didn’t do anything wrong. So the attacks FAIL even more than it would seem at first look.

443 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:05:03am

re: #435 Backwoods_Sleuth

Nope.
137 bullets went into that car.

Quite true. But the statement that the only excuse to firs on the car would be if the Terminator itself were in that car is ludicrous. I’m only taking issue with the statement.

444 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 10:05:04am

re: #441 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

I’m going to go out on a limb here and argue that the officer probably thought he was being a hero by jumping onto the hood and firing into that car. Once you’ve heard a hundred plus shots being fired, it is probably hard to tell who’s doing all the shooting. The officer probably thought the suspects had fired at somebody and he was probably full of fear and adrenaline, as opposed to an officer who shoots somebody in the back.

So pumped up with adrenaline that he reloaded his weapon twice.

445 allegro  May 23, 2015 10:05:21am

re: #441 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

I’m going to go out on a limb here and argue that the officer probably thought he was being a hero by jumping onto the hood and firing into that car. Once you’ve heard a hundred plus shots being fired, it is probably hard to tell who’s doing all the shooting. The officer probably thought the suspects had fired at somebody and he was probably full of fear and adrenaline, as opposed to an officer who shoots somebody in the back.

He had delusions of being Captain America methinks.

446 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 10:06:29am

re: #443 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Quite true. But the statement that the only excuse to firs on the car would be if the Terminator itself were in that car is ludicrous. I’m only taking issue with the statement.

There is NO excuse to jump on the hood of a vehicle and then shoot into the windshield as many times as he did.

447 Dr Lizardo  May 23, 2015 10:07:24am

Pretty much the final results from Ireland’s marriage equality referendum - 40 of 44 reporting.

62.3% Yes

37.7% No

60.0% total voter turnout.

That’s a resounding victory. Heartening to see, in my opinion. Of course, the wingnuts won’t like it one damned bit - they’re being left in the dustbin of history and their regressive, reactionary ideas will (insha’Allah) soon be nothing but an unpleasant memory…….and ultimately, a footnote in the history books.

And good riddance.

448 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:07:56am

re: #445 allegro

He had delusions of being Captain America methinks.

That’s what I think. He believes he was the Band of Brothers incarnate.

449 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 10:09:22am

Attorney for Timothy Russell’s family: Thankful for attempt to bring justice, but hugely disappointed in Michael Brelo verdict; asks why he was only Cleveland officer charged
end of alert

450 Timothy Watson  May 23, 2015 10:09:41am

re: #446 Backwoods_Sleuth

There is NO excuse to jump on the hood of a vehicle and then shoot into the windshield as many times as he did.

Gotta to agree, even if the people in the car were dangerous felons, all you’re doing is putting yourself in unnecessary danger and increasing the chances of a cop shooting another cop.

451 wrenchwench  May 23, 2015 10:10:54am

re: #441 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

I’m going to go out on a limb here and argue that the officer probably thought he was being a hero by jumping onto the hood and firing into that car. Once you’ve heard a hundred plus shots being fired, it is probably hard to tell who’s doing all the shooting. The officer probably thought the suspects had fired at somebody and he was probably full of fear and adrenaline, as opposed to an officer who shoots somebody in the back.

That limb has no strength. An officer is supposed to be CERTAIN about who he is killing and why.

452 Timothy Watson  May 23, 2015 10:11:23am

re: #433 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Eh, they’re juvenile records and probably should have been destroyed years ago.

453 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 10:12:02am

Attorney says police officers created the situation.

Timothy Russell family attorney: Fleeing and alluding does not get you the death penalty, and shouldn’t have in this case; Cleveland officer Michael Brelo far from innocent in this - @wkyc

454 Targetpractice  May 23, 2015 10:12:48am

re: #449 Justanotherhuman

[Embedded content]

Attorney for Timothy Russell’s family: Thankful for attempt to bring justice, but hugely disappointed in Michael Brelo verdict; asks why he was only Cleveland officer charged
end of alert

Same reason that, out of all the cops involved in Garner’s arrest, only one was charged and ultimately exonerated. They learned after Rodney King that if you put all the blame on one guy, then you can absolve the rest of just “following orders” or whatever BS excuse you come up with. It’s what makes the situation in Baltimore all the more stunning, that Mosby charged all six rather than just the driver or one of the arresting officers.

455 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 10:14:45am

More: Justice Department says review of Michael Brelo case is ‘separate and distinct’ from civil pattern and practice allegations with the city of Cleveland - statement
end of alert

456 Dark_Falcon  May 23, 2015 10:15:10am

re: #445 allegro

He had delusions of being Captain America methinks.

Then he missed the a key point: Steve Rodgers was military trained and quickly learned the dangers of wasting ammo.

I know that’s not the main point, but I often feel the need to mock those who feel the need to act like they’re fighting a war when they aren’t.

457 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:16:10am

re: #446 Backwoods_Sleuth

There is NO excuse to jump on the hood of a vehicle and then shoot into the windshield as many times as he did.

I think that what you’re leaving out is the context of the situation. In isolation, there IS no excuse to fire into that car. Unfortunately, there was a lot more to the case than a “hero” cop jumping onto the hood and blazing away. There are parallels with the MOVE case in Philadelphia thirty years ago this month. Back then police were trying to evict the occupants of the house. Somebody fired a shot (I don’t think it was ever established who fired first). Before it was over, the police department had to get more ammo from the surrounding townships. Long story short, no single officers were responsible. It was a failure of leadership and training, and I think this is the same. The cops had the suspects cornered, but panicked. I just don’t think this rises (or sinks) to the level of depravity like you see in many other recent cases. A lot of cops fucked this thing up, but trying to pin it on one isn’t going to work.

458 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 10:17:24am

What about a further criminal investigation, or are you waiting on the DoJ for that?

Cleveland police chief says officer Michael Brelo will remain on unpaid suspension following not guilty verdict; administrative process of Brelo, 12 other officers involved continues - @WEWS, @fox8news
end of alert

459 Nyet  May 23, 2015 10:18:30am

re: #428 Backwoods_Sleuth

Any highlights? :D

460 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 10:18:39am

re: #457 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Seriously, you are equating this with the MOVE case?
Seriously???

461 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:18:45am

It IS a perfectly good question to ask why Brelo was the only officer charged.

462 Great White Snark  May 23, 2015 10:19:08am

re: #419 jaunte

The problem is, everyone just has to take their word for the big Forgiveness, since the system described operates post-mortem. In the meantime we’re a nation of laws, and a society which operates to a large degree on public pressure.

Another problem. Christian forgiveness is doctrinal, then ethereal and does not put any requirements of the rest of society in how to treat the person. Forgiveness won’t necessarily express itself in any earthly sense at all. Prison etc can happen apace to societies rules.

463 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:19:39am

re: #460 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m drawing a comparison. Similar things happened. Didn’t think it was that hard.

464 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 10:19:58am

Criminal civil rights violations could come out of this Cleveland case.

That’s what it’s sounding like the DoJ is going to investigate.

465 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 10:20:11am

re: #459 Nyet

He was giving an extended twitter lecture on how to bend the universe to his will via the internet.

466 bratwurst  May 23, 2015 10:20:48am
467 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 10:21:25am

re: #463 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Yeah, that’s why you downdinged me.

good freaking grief.

468 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 10:22:29am

Woo, woo.

Earthquake with preliminary magnitude of 3.3 centered in View Park-Windsor Hills, Calif., near Los Angeles - USGS
read more on usgs.gov

469 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:23:26am

The comparison is that a lot of officers fired a lot of rounds at that car (house). Once that much gunfire starts, it’s hard to tell who is shooting at whom. There should have been leadership (either by rank or experience) to get them to cease firing.

470 Nyet  May 23, 2015 10:24:32am

re: #466 bratwurst

If same sex marriage becomes EU norm, Turkish entry into EU more doomed than ever

Meh. If Turkey objects, then they should not be welcome, as far as I’m concerned. And if not, cool.

471 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:25:21am

re: #467 Backwoods_Sleuth

Seriously?? I drew a comparison and you escalated it to equating one with the other. I even showed the similarities. You’re the one who didn’t comprehend, so get off my back.

472 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 10:26:11am

re: #471 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Your “comparison” wasn’t even apples and oranges.

473 Nyet  May 23, 2015 10:26:45am

re: #471 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Maybe not so aggressive?

474 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:28:04am

re: #472 Backwoods_Sleuth

Your “comparison” wasn’t even apples and oranges.

Maybe I should type slower. The cops on the scene panicked in both cases. Leadership failed in both cases.

475 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:30:04am

re: #473 Nyet

It wasn’t like I made some half assed comparison and sad it was just like MOVE 30 years ago. I went and detailed the points in common. The other person saw “MOVE” and stopped reading there, then complained when I called her/him on it.

476 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 10:30:25am

Tamir Rice shooting…

477 wrenchwench  May 23, 2015 10:30:55am

re: #474 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Maybe I should type slower. The cops on the scene panicked in both cases. Leadership failed in both cases.

What about the bomb? Does that fit in your comparison?

478 allegro  May 23, 2015 10:31:12am

So who sprinkled testy dust on the lizard food?

479 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 10:32:07am

re: #475 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Excuse Me!
I read your entire comment before replying.

Get a grip already.

480 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 10:33:16am

re: #478 allegro

So who sprinkled testy dust on the lizard food?

dragons in the house… :D

481 Targetpractice  May 23, 2015 10:33:21am

re: #478 allegro

So who sprinkled testy dust on the lizard food?

Shit, that wasn’t salt?

//

482 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:33:33am

It seems that most municipalities have written their laws to give police far too much discretion in the use of force. As much as that refusal to prosecute Darren Wilson is disgraceful, there probably would not have been a conviction. Unfortunately, I don’t think you’re going to have much luck changing the law.

483 Nyet  May 23, 2015 10:35:29am

re: #475 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

I noticed that you pounce at every opportunity. This is not the first time.

484 WhatEVs  May 23, 2015 10:38:35am

That Cleveland verdict was appalling. From the start of that 10 page reading, the judge did everything possible to discredit everyone: the ME is good, but wrong, the police trainer or higher up (didn’t say his role) said the cop didn’t follow training and put himself and other cops in peril by hot doggedly jumping on the car hood, but so what? Fuck that judge.

Then the cops hear a backfire, think it’s a gun, radio back and forth that they saw a gun, saw them reloading a gun, and reinforced their own bullshit and that is what made them justifyingly okie dokie to fire 137 rounds into the car.

That judge just gave full approval for any excessive force - death - by cops for any reason because they were scared.

Fuck. That. Judge.

485 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:39:18am

re: #477 wrenchwench

What about the bomb? Does that fit in your comparison?

Absolutely. The bomb made no sense. That bunker had no impact on the ability of the police to approach the building. People in the bunker would not have had a line of sight to fire down upon somebody standing in front of the house. The only to fire on the street would have been to step OUT of the bunker and approach the edge of the roof. Dropping that bomb is an example of panic, which is the point I have been trying to make. The officer in the helicopter might have had the chance to think it through later, but as far as he knew his fellow officers took fire from the bunker and it had to be destroyed. If somebody had actually been in the bunker at the time of the bomb (there wasn’t) and been killed in the explosion, I don’t think that officer could have been charged.

486 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:40:29am

re: #483 Nyet

I noticed that you pounce at every opportunity. This is not the first time.

It ‘snot the first time either that somebody jumps on my conclusion without reading the premise.
EDIT: I do make the effort to provide both. I expect disagreement, but not when somebody ignores half of my statement.

487 wrenchwench  May 23, 2015 10:41:24am

re: #481 Targetpractice

Shit, that wasn’t salt?

//

I thought it was powdered sugar.

488 wrenchwench  May 23, 2015 10:42:45am

re: #485 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

Absolutely. The bomb made no sense. That bunker had no impact on the ability of the police to approach the building. People in the bunker would not have had a line of sight to fire down upon somebody standing in front of the house. The only to fire on the street would have been to step OUT of the bunker and approach the edge of the roof. Dropping that bomb is an example of panic, which is the point I have been trying to make. The officer in the helicopter might have had the chance to think it through later, but as far as he knew his fellow officers took fire from the bunker and it had to be destroyed. If somebody had actually been in the bunker at the time of the bomb (there wasn’t) and been killed in the explosion, I don’t think that officer could have been charged.

It sounds like you excuse ‘panic’ in the right circumstances. I don’t. That’s what training is for.

489 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:44:11am

re: #479 Backwoods_Sleuth

Excuse Me!
I read your entire comment before replying.

Get a grip already.

Then why did you say I was “equating” the two? I highlighting points of comparison and never said they were the same. I said there were parallels. You sure you read my post?

490 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:44:41am

re: #488 wrenchwench

I don’t excuse panic, but the law does.

491 wrenchwench  May 23, 2015 10:45:34am

re: #490 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

I don’t excuse panic, but the law does.

What law, where?

492 Justanotherhuman  May 23, 2015 10:45:51am

You can read John P O’Donnell’s decision here: cleveland.com

I’d like to know why this guy’s legal experience hasn’t been posted on his official bio since he’s been presiding since 2002 on the Common Pleas bench? He was admitted to the bar in 1993. I can understand his residence not being shown, but his birthdate? And all those “Litigation Preferences” show “Not Available At This Time”, also.

cp.cuyahogacounty.us

493 Jenner7  May 23, 2015 10:45:52am

This is why indictments aren’t enough. We need convictions. We also need our legislatures to get off their asses and change the laws.

This verdict doesn’t bode well for Tamir’s family.

Sigh….

494 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:49:53am

re: #491 wrenchwench

What law, where?

I do confess that I am not a lawyer, but I’ve heard time and time again that laws regarding the use of force by police give them a great deal of discretion, to the point that the officer must only show that he had a reason to believe he was threatened in order to use deadly force. I’ve heard it here in Philadelphia, I heard it when the pointy heads were discussing the Michael Brown case, and I’ve heard it way too many times.

495 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 10:55:39am

re: #493 Jenner7

This is why indictments aren’t enough. We need convictions. We also need our legislatures to get off their asses and change the laws.

This verdict doesn’t bode well for Tamir’s family.

Sigh….

I agree with you but that will be extremely difficult. The police unions will stand in the way, and few councilpeople will run that gauntlet.

496 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 23, 2015 10:56:50am

re: #489 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

There are no “parallels” or “points of comparison” between the two events such as you seem to believe.
Not going to continue the debate with you.

497 SteveMcGaziBolaGate  May 23, 2015 11:06:22am

re: #496 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s your choice to ignore the facts. If you want to go all utilitarian and ignore everything except the outcome, knock yourself out.

498 wrenchwench  May 23, 2015 11:14:27am

re: #494 SteveMcGaziBolaGate

I do confess that I am not a lawyer, but I’ve heard time and time again that laws regarding the use of force by police give them a great deal of discretion, to the point that the officer must only show that he had a reason to believe he was threatened in order to use deadly force. I’ve heard it here in Philadelphia, I heard it when the pointy heads were discussing the Michael Brown case, and I’ve heard it way too many times.

You don’t have to be a lawyer to quote the law, but you do need to know which law you’re quoting when you do. ‘Hearing’ something without a specific law referenced is pretty useless.

499 ObserverArt  May 23, 2015 11:45:01am

Jesus Steve. Is this how you win friends?


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