New Oklahoma Abortion Bill Challenged

US News • Views: 4,450

In an attempt to threaten and scare women out of having abortions, Republicans in Oklahoma (Sen. Todd Lamb, R-Edmond, and Rep. Dan Sullivan, R-Tulsa) have created a new law that blatantly violates the state and federal constitutions, and requires physicians to provide the state with detailed personal information about women who have abortions.

Among the personal information this law will force doctors to disclose:

  • Age
  • Marital status
  • Education level
  • Number of previous pregnancies
  • Reason for the abortion
  • Method of abortion
  • Method of payment
  • Cost of the abortion
  • Type of insurance
  • Whether ultrasound was performed
  • Nature of mother’s relationship with father

Here’s the full text of the new law (PDF), which goes quite a bit farther than previous reporting requirements in states such as Kansas. The law will disclose each individual form, not just bulk statistics, and it requires reporting of complications during procedures. It’s clearly designed as a tool to provide the radical anti-abortion right with propaganda points, as well as a tool to frighten women — since the information in the form could be used to help identify them.

And it’s also the first time a state has made sex-selected abortions illegal.

This is such an unconscionable intrusion into personal liberties and women’s freedom of choice, it will almost certainly be struck down in the lawsuits now being filed by several groups.

Tulsa World also notes that in addition to the governmental snooping into the private lives of women and their families, “implementing the measure will cost $281,285 the first year and $256,285 each subsequent year.”

How can the sponsors of this bill call themselves “conservatives?” This is nothing less than the creation of a religiously motivated nanny state in Oklahoma.

(Hat tip: erraticsphinx.)

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486 comments
1 SFGoth  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:36:15pm

Who wants to defend this nonsense? And Republicans are afraid Obama's keeping a list and checking it twice. Here's a clue -- if your deity needs *you* to keep a list like this, your deity ain't all that.

2 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:36:24pm

Aren't there HIPPA laws?

3 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:36:30pm

The GOP is literally back in the bed room and this time they are publicizing what should be private information of women's lives.

4 jaunte  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:36:34pm

This is more detailed personal information than the state of Oklahoma requires for a marriage license.
[Link: www.weddingvendors.com...]

5 SFGoth  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:37:22pm

Charles, I believe "religiously motivated" should be "religiously-motivated".

6 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:39:05pm

re: #5 SFGoth

Charles, I believe "religiously motivated" should be "religiously-motivated".

Either way is considered correct. I avoid using hyphens unless they're clearly called for.

7 GCM29  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:39:36pm

I really wish the GOP would move away from this kind of stuff...I know everyone on here knows this already, but this kind of garbage is a waste of time and makes the Republicans look more and more like theocrats.

8 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:41:11pm

It's like a GOP Death Panel. But real.

9 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:42:03pm

re: #7 GCM29

I really wish the GOP would move away from this kind of stuff...I know everyone on here knows this already, but this kind of garbage is a waste of time and makes the Republicans look more and more like theocrats.

FTFY.

10 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:42:35pm

re: #2 Cannadian Club Akbar

Aren't there HIPPA laws?

Yes, but looking over the above list, none of this violates HIPPA. I know HIPPA, at least the parts I need for developing software (I still have a off and on open project with Kaiser), and the information above would not, in general, allow anyone to actually identify the patient themselves. Now, if name or social or patient ID or stuff like that is included in this disclosure, that would be a problem.

Now, I haven't read the whole law, the whole PDF, so, there may be something in there that is still problematic to HIPPA regulations.

My comment is in regards to Charles' summary above.

11 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:44:30pm

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

Charles, I have trouble opening PDF's in Safari a lot of times, but I am going to try and go over this... I am interested in looking further into the possible HIPPA complications.

12 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:45:32pm

re: #10 Walter L. Newton

Yes, but looking over the above list, none of this violates HIPPA. I know HIPPA, at least the parts I need for developing software (I still have a off and on open project with Kaiser), and the information above would not, in general, allow anyone to actually identify the patient themselves. Now, if name or social or patient ID or stuff like that is included in this disclosure, that would be a problem.

Maybe not in big cities like Tulsa, but in small towns revealing this information could definitely be used to identify individual women.

13 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:47:24pm

re: #12 Charles

Maybe not in big cities like Tulsa, but in small towns revealing this information could definitely be used to identify individual women.

Well, yes, probably. I'm looking over the PDF now, I'll check back in in a bit.

14 jaunte  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:47:54pm

It may be time to introduce the Oklahoma legislature to Lysistrata.

15 GCM29  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:47:56pm

re: #12 Charles

Definetely, and Oklahoma is full of towns like that.

16 Lee Coller  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:48:20pm

Pet peeve of mine -- its HIPAA, not HIPPA.

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

17 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:48:21pm

re: #5 SFGoth

Charles, I believe "religiously motivated" should be "religiously-motivated".

Is it nit pick or nit-pick? I can never remember..
/

18 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:48:52pm

re: #16 Lee Coller

Pet peeve of mine -- its HIPAA, not HIPPA.

Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

My bad.

19 fizzlogic  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:49:01pm

You can rest assured the GOP is obsessed with abortion. Put them in power and there will be vote after vote enacting hoop after hoop for women to leap through to get an abortion. My former congresswomen, Tillie Fowler RIP (R and "prolife"), complained over the Gingrich lead congress "enough is enough" when they had 100 votes lined up regarding abortion issues. It's never ending.

20 allegro  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:51:34pm
You can rest assured the GOP is obsessed with abortion sex.

Fixed it.

21 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:52:04pm

re: #3 Gus 802

The GOP is literally back in the bed room and this time they are publicizing what should be private information of women's lives.

This is all about shaming these women by exposing their private matters to the world. Like Hoops said on the last thread- it's a modern Scarlet A. It's the woman who should be punished publicly for her own private business in their eyes. They want to scare these women into their choice, and it's pretty ugly indeed.

22 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:53:37pm

re: #19 trendsurfer

I've always wondered.. if the anti-abortion crowd were to get their wills through.. what is the next step?

I mean, is the same crowd naturally drawn to other social engineering projects? Laws preventing divorce maybe? Or maybe the religion in schools thing?

Has anyone done any studies on how these questions overlap? It's tempting to think of one cohesive "traditions" group, but I'm pretty sure that's selling the issues short.

23 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:54:53pm

This is one of the biggest issues that has led me to abandon the Republican Party, by the way. The obsession with dominating the lives and choices of women is repellent to me, and I can't ignore it any more.

24 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:55:40pm

Why not force people to provide data about every other medical procedure under the sun? I'd like to know whose boobs are fake and who's au natural!

/snark

25 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:56:53pm

re: #24 JasonA

Why not force people to provide data about every other medical procedure under the sun? I'd like to know whose boobs are fake and who's au natural!

/snark

More fun if you can pick them out yourself.
/

26 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:57:10pm

re: #21 Sharmuta

This is all about shaming these women by exposing their private matters to the world. Like Hoops said on the last thread- it's a modern Scarlet A. It's the woman who should be punished publicly for her own private business in their eyes. They want to scare these women into their choice, and it's pretty ugly indeed.

That's exactly what it is -- they are attempting to shame women. It reminds me a bit of when Lila Rose said, “abortions should be done in the public square" at the Values Voter Summit Not exactly the same but similar to the Dark Ages mentality.

Simialr in thinking you can say they are "women who have had abortion and all how all relevant information information shall be announced in the public square."

Welcome to 1509 Oklahoma.

27 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:57:30pm

I'm a pro choice person, have been all my adult life. I would not want the above law to stand. But sometimes (at least this one example) the choice is based on a reason that makes me shudder. If sex selection abortion is a mere matter of choice, is there any reason too trivial to justify that decision? Just keep trying until you get what you want? I find that idea selfish. Am I wrong here?

28 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:58:13pm

re: #23 Charles

This is one of the biggest issues that has led me to abandon the Republican Party, by the way. The obsession with dominating the lives and choices of women is repellent to me, and I can't ignore it any more.

The correlation of this to fundamentalist islam is striking. All that's missing is a burqa.

29 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 3:58:45pm

re: #27 Rightwingconspirator

I'm a pro choice person, have been all my adult life. I would not want the above law to stand. But sometimes (at least this one example) the choice is based on a reason that makes me shudder. If sex selection abortion is a mere matter of choice, is there any reason too trivial to justify that decision? Just keep trying until you get what you want? I find that idea selfish. Am I wrong here?

As someone who thinks China's one child policy led to repulsive results, no, I don't think you're wrong to not like that idea.

30 rwmofo  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:00:27pm

I'll be sure to file this idea under "bad craziness."

31 fizzlogic  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:00:33pm

re: #27 Rightwingconspirator

It's none of your business.

32 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:00:52pm

re: #24 JasonA

Why not force people to provide data about every other medical procedure under the sun? I'd like to know whose boobs are fake and who's au natural!

/snark

Don't worry..In a few years all our records are promised to be on-line..
Finally some hacker will let us know if Megan Fox's b00bs are real...

33 bratwurst  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:00:54pm

re: #3 Gus 802

The GOP is literally back in the bed room and this time they are publicizing what should be private information of women's lives.

Funny, seems like many of the "great Americans" I saw at the 9/12 march were demanding that the government get out of their lives.

34 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:00:58pm

re: #12 Charles

I could see where this would be a problem in a rural community with a population of less than 2000, but then again, what are the odds of such a community having a doctor that performs abortions? Regardless of this, it is still a bad law and needs to be repealed.

35 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:01:39pm

re: #33 bratwurst

Funny, seems like many of the "great Americans" I saw at the 9/12 march were demanding that the government get out of their lives.

Yeah. You know how that works. Out of the boardroom and into the bedroom.

36 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:01:50pm

re: #29 JasonA

China... Very bad stuff there. State mandated abortions. If anything is worse than banning abortions- the state with a cop and a surgeon is far more terrifying.

37 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:02:09pm

re: #34 Bubblehead II

I could see where this would be a problem in a rural community with a population of less than 2000, but then again, what are the odds of such a community having a doctor that performs abortions? Regardless of this, it is still a bad law and needs to be repealed.

It would be easy to catch a girl in a lie, then do research.

38 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:02:31pm

re: #36 Rightwingconspirator

China... Very bad stuff there. State mandated abortions. If anything is worse than banning abortions- the state with a cop and a surgeon is far more terrifying.

Actually I was referring to people getting rid of girls because they want their one and only to be a boy.

39 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:02:53pm

re: #31 trendsurfer

It would be if it were my wife. My neighbor-You are absolutely correct.

40 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:03:00pm

re: #37 Cannadian Club Akbar

It would be easy to catch a girl in a lie, then do research.

If she went to a big town. Forgot to put that, sorry.

41 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:03:40pm

re: #38 JasonA

Yet another bad scenario. Point taken

42 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:03:41pm

re: #24 JasonA

I'd like to know whose boobs are fake and who's au natural!

Oh, the Mammary Elucidation Law Overseeing Natural Succulence bill? Yeah, I can get behind that. Let's call our local representatives!

43 bratwurst  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:04:05pm

re: #5 SFGoth

Charles, I believe "religiously motivated" should be "religiously-motivated".

Hyphens generally do not follow adverbs ending in "ly".

44 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:05:41pm

re: #42 cenotaphium

ROFL

45 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:06:42pm

re: #42 cenotaphium

Oh, the Mammary Elucidation Law Overseeing Natural Succulence bill? Yeah, I can get behind that. Let's call our local representatives!

Don't we have a right to know?

46 Aye Pod  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:06:59pm

This story reminds me of that deranged idiot at the "values" conference who said abortions should be carried out in the town square.

47 fizzlogic  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:07:01pm

re: #23 Charles

It was one of the big issues for me too. The Schiavo absurdity was another. But also the fact that the GOP is hamstrung by movement conservatism advanced by talk radio which prevents it from dealing with issues of serious economic importance is another big one too.

48 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:07:02pm

re: #23 Charles

This is one of the biggest issues that has led me to abandon the Republican Party, by the way. The obsession with dominating the lives and choices of women is repellent to me, and I can't ignore it any more.

First off, I agree with your statement above.

In regards to what's in the bill, and whether it violates HIPPA, I say on a first reading, no. Of course, I am neither a legislator or lawyer, but comparing what I know about disclosure in regards to HIPPA, none of the statistical questions in the bill would lead to a direct disclosure of a patient (if this info was being view on line or by a third party).

There are a few questions that may "hint" at some discernible "clues" such as "mother has other children or dependents" or "mother is a student" or "husband is unemployed."

These are yes and no questions, and in a small community, maybe someone could say "well, Miss X was in the hospital last week and we don't know why but she has other children and she is a student and her husband is out of work."

But other than this kind of possible sleuthing, the statistical questions are nondescript in regards to exposing any demographics that could be used to identify the patient.

And, on page 17 (I can't seem to clip and paste out of this PDF) there is a paragraph that covers disclosure, and this sounds a lot like a HIPPA boilerplate.

I can't find any way in this bill would cause a direct disclosure of the patient. But like I said above, there may be something here I don't understand or something a lawyer could point out as to being problematic.

But, bottom line, this bill does look like it is designed to make more work for the doctor, and over all, more intrusive, and in general, putting up more roadblocks to legal abortions.

(Full disclosure, I am pro-choice)

49 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:07:09pm

This is just another attempt by the so-cons and theocrats to control women's reproductive lives. And it isn't new, although it may be a new low. Requring information about 'relationship with the male partner'? Who the hell's business is that? Number of abortions and reason for this one?

This isn't the first time the anti-choice theocrats have tried to gain access to the personal information of women who have abortions in an attempt to shame and silence them-- and try to prosecute and intimidate doctors.

In 2003 and later in Kansas they went hunting for info -- this was all part of the harassment and persecution of Tiller, btw.

[Link: www.siecus.org...]

Kansas AG Phill Kline is seeking the medical records of almost 90 women who received abortions. WHAT?!

Kline apparently is looking for evidence of a crime under late-term abortion laws. The records he's looking to get would include every patient's name, medical history, details of her sex life, birth control practices and psychological profile. This is such a disgusting violation of privacy rights; I'm fucking speechless.


And Ashcroft did it in 2004 as well.

Meet the religious right, folks. They've never gone away.

50 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:07:51pm

Hear ye, hear ye! Come one Oklahomans come all! By order of the King, today we announceth thy women of Oklahoma that have sought thineselves abortions! The women are here present and when I announce their names they will come forward as I read her history to thine all and stand here in shame!

/

51 Gus  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:09:29pm

re: #46 Jimmah

This story reminds me of that deranged idiot at the "values" conference who said abortions should be carried out in the town square.

Exactly. I mentioned that upthread.

Pardon my garbled sentence in that post.

52 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:10:27pm

re: #33 bratwurst

Funny, seems like many of the "great Americans" I saw at the 9/12 march were demanding that the government get out of their lives.

Sure. They're all about 'personal responsibility', 'personal liberty', and keeping the gov't out of people's business...unless it's about women taking personal responsibility over their sexual and reproductive destinies and their right to become mothers only when and how they choose.

Silly women can't be trusted with their uteruses and control over them.

53 Aye Pod  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:10:53pm

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

But other than this kind of possible sleuthing, the statistical questions are nondescript in regards to exposing any demographics that could be used to identify the patient.

Not just possible but very probable. We are dealing with demented stalkers here. It's how they roll. They are no doubt drooling over the prospect as we speak.

54 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:12:15pm

As someone who has had private information spread around the internet, I know what a weapon the threat of revealing private information online can be. One of the stalkers emailed me such a threat one night. It can be quite alarming and without strength of will, it's easy to give in to such a threat.

So imagine being in the difficult situation of an unplanned pregnancy, and have something like the weight of your private information being tied to a heavy personal decision being posted on the internet for all the world to see.

This isn't a law- it's a promise and a threat designed to intimidate women into a choice that is acceptable to the Bible-cons.

55 Aye Pod  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:12:37pm

re: #51 Gus 802

Exactly. I mentioned that upthread.

Pardon my garbled sentence in that post.

Thanks Gus - just read it and updinged.

56 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:12:51pm

re: #46 Jimmah

This story reminds me of that deranged idiot at the "values" conference who said abortions should be carried out in the town square.

As long as you get someone to couple that suggestion with public prostate exams, I'm sure it'll be well buried by the same old guys.

57 fizzlogic  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:14:23pm

re: #52 iceweasel

They dropped the "limited government" theme for "small government" due to the implied hypocrisy. Of course, smaller is only for secular programs; faith-based initiatives FTW.

58 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:14:42pm

re: #54 Sharmuta

Yes exactly. This works in many ways, not just abortions. "Gotcha" disclosure. If you do these things, you will be exposed. So you can't hold your head high in public, can't run for office, get a better job etc etc. It truly is the new scarlet "A".

59 Mocking Jay  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:14:53pm

re: #57 trendsurfer

They dropped the "limited government" theme for "small government" due to the implied hypocrisy. Of course, smaller is only for secular programs; faith-based initiatives FTW.

Only so long as it's the right faith...

60 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:15:15pm
61 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:15:23pm

They are also going to report on "complications" so every time a complication is reported the Bloody Randall Terry types are going to flock to the reporting clinic for their hysterical theater. You know that's what it's about.

62 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:15:57pm

re: #48 Walter L. Newton

None of that information is anyone else's business, most especially 'reason for abortion' and 'relationship with partner'. If people want to volunteer that info, that's one matter.

And there is a history of people seeking access for political reasons to teh medical records of women who have had abortions.

Plus, don't doubt for one second that all that information would be splashed over an Army of God site with the header "Whores and BabyKillers" if they could get their hands on it-- along with the phone numbers and addresses of the women involved. Just like they've done with doctors who perform abortions.

63 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:16:15pm

re: #57 trendsurfer

The Republicans dropped all pretense of advocating limited gov as Reagan stepped out of the Oval. Bush 41 was no help. Bush 43 well that's self evident.

64 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:16:15pm

re: #28 Sharmuta

The correlation of this to fundamentalist islam is striking. All that's missing is a burqa.

This topic for me is shattering.. It's hard to even face personally..
I have always believed in woman's rights and I will at all times support them..
I, as a conservative I support getting the Gov't out of bedrooms and Doctors offices..period.
I was adopted..I wasn't wanted..I could have been just as easlity medical waste and some one posting here...I was one wisk of a moment away from eternal darkness...Every day I awake I count my lucky stars and live life with all my might and soul...There is always a song deep in my heart...
I am the luckiest man in the world...

65 fizzlogic  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:16:42pm

re: #59 JasonA

Only so long as it's the right faith...

And which faith would that be?...

66 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:16:52pm

Sorry, Charles.

67 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:17:06pm

re: #62 iceweasel

None of that information is anyone else's business, most especially 'reason for abortion' and 'relationship with partner'. If people want to volunteer that info, that's one matter.

And there is a history of people seeking access for political reasons to teh medical records of women who have had abortions.

Plus, don't doubt for one second that all that information would be splashed over an Army of God site with the header "Whores and BabyKillers" if they could get their hands on it-- along with the phone numbers and addresses of the women involved. Just like they've done with doctors who perform abortions.


Phil Kline got in hot water for that. It's why he's not in office in Kansas anymore.

68 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:17:33pm

re: #64 HoosierHoops

I love you, {Hoops}. You know you're wanted here.

69 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:17:36pm

Zombie called out at Daily Kos:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

70 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:18:02pm

re: #61 Thanos

They are also going to report on "complications" so every time a complication is reported the Bloody Randall Terry types are going to flock to the reporting clinic for their hysterical theater. You know that's what it's about.

And they'll lie to spread misinformation to women who might seek abortions. Just like they do now, claiming that abortions cause depression, suicide, breast cancer, infertility, you name it.

71 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:18:35pm

re: #64 HoosierHoops

Thank you for pointing out the reason for the other choice. Have the child, let it live. A fighting chance. That choice deserves notice too.

72 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:19:37pm

re: #69 Charles

Zombie called out at Daily Kos:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Sooo... what about the Rabid Right bloggers who praise the "research" of this racist scum? When will they reject AND denounce the stupid, rotted-brain creature?

Beautiful.

73 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:19:47pm

re: #69 Charles

Zombie called out at Daily Kos:

[Link: www.dailykos.com...]

Maybe Ed could post a weather report as a rebuttal.

74 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:20:42pm

Maybe I am misinterpreting this, but couldn't section 1 paragraph 10 require a woman taking RU-48 aka the morning after pill to self report herself for performing a de-facto abortion?

75 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:21:43pm

re: #69 Charles

Ouch.

76 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:22:05pm

re: #68 Sharmuta

I love you, {Hoops}. You know you're wanted here.

Damn..I can't spell tonight..Maybe try that button for spellcheck sometime..
*wink*
You know what is funny.. You know my last name..It doesn't get any more German than that..Seriously..
Have you ever had any one tell you? ' You don't look German'
Really..All you can do is throw your arms up and say ' TA DA!'

77 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:22:34pm

re: #62 iceweasel

None of that information is anyone else's business, most especially 'reason for abortion' and 'relationship with partner'. If people want to volunteer that info, that's one matter.

And there is a history of people seeking access for political reasons to teh medical records of women who have had abortions.

Plus, don't doubt for one second that all that information would be splashed over an Army of God site with the header "Whores and BabyKillers" if they could get their hands on it-- along with the phone numbers and addresses of the women involved. Just like they've done with doctors who perform abortions.

I don't doubt anything you just stated. My answer above was in regards to this bill and if it appears to violate any HIPPA regulations.

I have a background in developing medical software and I have had to follow HIPPA regulations in regards to how data in a medical system connects, in an effort to make sure the disclosure of a patients identity doesn't happen.

But what people can or can't do outside of a closed system, that's where the problem arises, and like you said above, they will misuse the information if they can get their ahnds on it.

78 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:22:58pm

re: #74 Bubblehead II

The things they forget to consider... Shhh. Now they'll add that too.

/ or is it ?

79 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:24:43pm

re: #67 Thanos

You really need to wake up early and get out your camera...
NASA to bomb the Moon on Friday morning, watch from Earth

NASA plans to crash a rocket into the moon early Friday, blasting a huge hole in the lunar surface to search for hidden water.

The explosion, scheduled for 7:30 a.m. Florida time, is expected to visible with from Earth using amateur telescopes, according to NASA.

It's also expected to be aired live by NASA-TV and on [Link: www.nasa.gov...]

According to NASA's website, the Centaur rocket will make impact at the Moon's south pole.

Scientists tell Scientific American Magazine that they expect the blast to be so powerful that a huge plume of debris will be ejected.

A spacecraft will fly through the debris plume, sending data back to Earth before crashing into the lunar surface and creating a second debris plume, according to NASA's website.

80 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:25:36pm

re: #12 Charles

Maybe not in big cities like Tulsa, but in small towns revealing this information could definitely be used to identify individual women.

There will also be inevitable pressure to both expand the information required, and to pry patient information out of doctors so it can be connected with the individual forms that are being published. It's not only an intrusion - it's a massive attempt at intimidation, with the implied threat of "We're going to put your information on the Internet and tell everyone you had an abortion!" It's as close as the American Taliban are able to come to openly burning people at the stake - something they will continue to work towards once this law is in place as a starting point.

81 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:26:32pm

The explosion, scheduled for 7:30 a.m. Florida time, is expected to visible with from Earth using amateur telescopes, according to NASA.

Funny, I live there.

82 Thor-Zone  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:26:37pm

re: #2 Cannadian Club Akbar

Aren't there HIPPA laws?

Yup...but that won't stop these folks however.

83 Nadnerb  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:26:37pm

Pardon for missing it, but Zombie is no longer? What happened?

84 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:27:11pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

You really need to wake up early and get out your camera...
NASA to bomb the Moon on Friday morning, watch from Earth

I'll try.

85 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:27:41pm

Sharm: For the record you were right about Zombie.

86 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:28:01pm

re: #82 Thor-Zone

Yup...but that won't stop these folks however.

See re: #48 Walter L. Newton

87 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:28:41pm

Exhibit D from kos is nice. Zombie started that meme based off a PDF she got from me. Out of respect, I didn't say anything about her inclusion of that side story to the matter of the contents of the Weather Underground essay, but I was quite dismayed she deflected attention from the story I sent her to a stupid logo. I thought it was pretty strange at the time, and I think it's funny it's now getting used at kos.

Heh.

88 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:29:24pm

re: #83 Nadnerb

See the Lizard Lounge thread from the 4th.

89 Thor-Zone  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:29:33pm

I am so tired of abortion. The left wants everyone to have as many abortions as they can possibly get. The right wants no abortions under any circumstance.

Can't we just give it a rest. My head is ready to explode.

90 allegro  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:30:27pm
The left wants everyone to have as many abortions as they can possibly get.

Please. That's just an ignorant statement.

91 jaunte  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:30:51pm

re: #89 Thor-Zone

he left wants everyone to have as many abortions as they can possibly get.


I'm not a 'leftist,' but I'm pretty sure that's a wild exaggeration.

92 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:31:00pm

re: #83 Nadnerb

Pardon for missing it, but Zombie is no longer? What happened?

Pardon me for pointing this out.. You've been here 2 years longer than me and you need a play by play review?
How did that canoe trip across the Ocean work out? We missed you
Please...

93 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:31:30pm

re: #81 Cannadian Club Akbar

The explosion, scheduled for 7:30 a.m. Florida time, is expected to visible with from Earth using amateur telescopes, according to NASA.

Funny, I live there.

Where, on the south pole of the moon? I'd complain to NASA in that case.

94 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:32:05pm

re: #83 Nadnerb

Pardon for missing it, but Zombie is no longer? What happened?

Brendan, you just noticed?

95 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:32:09pm

re: #89 Thor-Zone

The left wants everyone to have as many abortions as they can possibly get.

Exaggerate much?

96 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:33:10pm

re: #89 Thor-Zone

I am so tired of abortion. The left wants everyone to have as many abortions as they can possibly get. The right wants no abortions under any circumstance.

Can't we just give it a rest. My head is ready to explode.

Possibly from being stuck on stupid.

97 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:34:27pm

You don't have to come at this from a religious standpoint. Biologically speaking, every abortion at every point in the pregnancy ends the life of a genetically-distinct human being.

98 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:34:56pm

re: #89 Thor-Zone

The left wants everyone to have as many abortions as they can possibly get.

That is a wingnut lie.

99 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:35:27pm

re: #97 jill e

You don't have to come at this from a religious standpoint. Biologically speaking, every abortion at every point in the pregnancy ends the life of a genetically-distinct human being.

Tough. So does rinsing with mouthwash.

100 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:35:49pm

NASA bombing!!!
[Link: www.nasa.gov...]

101 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:36:32pm

re: #97 jill e

You don't have to come at this from a religious standpoint. Biologically speaking, every abortion at every point in the pregnancy ends the life of a genetically-distinct human being.

Do you know how many of natural conceptions end up as natural abortions? And they're all "genetically-distinct human beings".

102 lastlaugh  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:37:00pm

re: #97 jill e

You don't have to come at this from a religious standpoint. Biologically speaking, every abortion at every point in the pregnancy ends the life of a genetically-distinct human being.

And masturbation kills a bunch of half-humans? Condoms stop potentially viable life as well. I don't like aborition either but its between a woman and her doctor and her god.

103 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:37:05pm

re: #99 SixDegrees

Bet you're glad that's not what happened to your zygote.

104 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:37:26pm

I find sex-selection abhorrent, but I'm pro-choice and that's one of the choices. I think the sex-selection part of this bill is the more insidious part. Look who has "standing" to make a complaint about it:

a. the female upon whom the abortion was performed or attempted to be performed in violation of this section,

b. any person who is the spouse, parent, sibling, or guardian of, or a current or former licensed health care provider of the female upon whom the abortion was performed or attempted to be performed in violation of this section,

c. a district attorney with appropriate juridiction, or

d. the Attorney General.

Emphasis added. I'm not a lawyer, I may have read that wrong. Please let me know if you read it differently. And if such a complaint is made, the "attempts" at privacy called for in this bill would go out the window, I would think.

105 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:37:54pm

re: #103 jill e

Bet you're glad that's not what happened to your zygote.

Non sequitur.

Which isn't at all surprising.

106 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:37:55pm

re: #101 cenotaphium

Okay...they happen naturally. It's not a human choice. Old people die naturally every day as well.

107 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:38:11pm

re: #97 jill e

You don't have to come at this from a religious standpoint. Biologically speaking, every abortion at every point in the pregnancy ends the life of a genetically-distinct human being.

Genetically distinct, sure! Sentient? No. Biologically speaking, of course.

108 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:39:30pm

re: #106 jill e

Okay...they happen naturally. It's not a human choice. Old people die naturally every day as well.

..uh-huh. Actually, dietary habits and exercise contribute to "natural" abortions. I'm sure you want us to regulate that too?

Just abandon the original "scientific" premise already. :P

109 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:39:38pm

re: #103 jill e

Bet you're glad that's not what happened to your zygote.

9_9

The "WHAT IF THAT WAS YOU???" line is not an intellectually honest argument.

110 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:39:54pm

re: #89 Thor-Zone

I am so tired of abortion. The left wants everyone to have as many abortions as they can possibly get.

But, but, Thor! Where would they get the hordes of welfare recipient voters they need to keep themselves in power if they did that? Are illegal immigrants enough?
///

111 freetoken  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:39:55pm

Speaking of children, parents and medicine, on the AP headlines:

AP Poll: Third of parents oppose swine flu vaccine

As the first wave of swine flu vaccine crosses the country, more than a third of parents don't want their kids vaccinated, according to an Associated Press-GfK poll.

Related the story yesterday of overhearing (at the grocery story) two people yammering in full anti-vaxx mode... it is easy for me to believe the AP report.

112 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:40:31pm

re: #101 cenotaphium

I understand your point, but using a logical fallacy to make it isn't helpful.
That's the equivalent of saying that because people die a natural death every day, there's not a problem with shooting someone.
(Please note that I am not comparing abortion to shooting anyone... it's just an illustration re the reasoning there).

113 Nadnerb  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:40:32pm

re: #88 Bubblehead II

I guess I've been asleep, but I didn't see that coming. Strange vibrations in the air these days.re: #94 Walter L. Newton

I was in the mountains this weekend and Sunday pm's read of LGF was brief. My calves and back were hurtin'.

114 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:41:22pm

re: #106 jill e

Okay...they happen naturally. It's not a human choice. Old people die naturally every day as well.

Then stick it in a tray and let God take care of it, and see how much interest He shows in His precious creation.

115 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:41:33pm

My daughter in Law is dressing up as Boy George for halloween, don't ask me why, however in all the videos it never shows his feet well. Anyone have an ID on what shoes Boy George wears?

116 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:41:39pm

re: #109 WindUpBird

Why is that?

117 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:42:51pm

re: #113 Nadnerb

I missed the whole why and wherefore too, don't feel alone. There are just too many posts sometimes to catch every one of them, and it's easy to get lost.

118 sagehen  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:43:41pm

re: #27 Rightwingconspirator

I'm a pro choice person, have been all my adult life. I would not want the above law to stand. But sometimes (at least this one example) the choice is based on a reason that makes me shudder. If sex selection abortion is a mere matter of choice, is there any reason too trivial to justify that decision? Just keep trying until you get what you want? I find that idea selfish. Am I wrong here?


Since the sonogram doesn't show fetal gender until well past Oklahoma's on-demand abortion cut-off date, it's a moot point. Anyone who truly believes that sex-selection is in the top ten most common reasons for abortion, must have a low opinion of women generally.

119 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:43:48pm

re: #98 iceweasel

That is a wingnut lie.

It's worse than that..It equates a woman in the worst situation of her life.. A decision of life and death...To a political allegiance of left or right...
This is a matter between the Mother, Father, Doctor and God...The Gov't is not included
It is ugly and the GOP has brought this mantle of shame upon themselves..

120 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:44:13pm

re: #108 cenotaphium

Speaking of intellectually dishonest, that comparison is ridiculous. Deliberate act compared to nature's natural response.

121 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:44:31pm

re: #111 freetoken

Speaking of children, parents and medicine, on the AP headlines:

AP Poll: Third of parents oppose swine flu vaccine

Related the story yesterday of overhearing (at the grocery story) two people yammering in full anti-vaxx mode... it is easy for me to believe the AP report.

And interestingly, the overlap between these anti-vaxers and the anti-abortion crowd is non-negligible. On the right, the opposition to vaccines is grounded in a distrust of all science as an afront to religion - see, once again, the Wedge Document for details.

And once they start piling children's bodies up in the streets because their parents decided God didn't want 'em vaccinated, do you think they'll accept responsibility for their murders?

122 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:45:04pm

re: #78 Rightwingconspirator

I think they have considered it very well.

See section 1 paragraphs 1, 4 and 7.

This seems to imply that a woman taking RU-48 or the doctor prescribing it would be required to submit a report.

123 bratwurst  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:45:21pm

re: #89 Thor-Zone

The left wants everyone to have as many abortions as they can possibly get.

For f*cks sake, that is asinine.

124 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:45:34pm
125 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:46:01pm

re: #115 Thanos

My daughter in Law is dressing up as Boy George for halloween, don't ask me why, however in all the videos it never shows his feet well. Anyone have an ID on what shoes Boy George wears?

Culture Crocs?

126 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:46:36pm

re: #114 SixDegrees

That kind of response is just really sad...

127 martinsmithy  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:46:38pm

I personally think any woman or couple having an abortion for gender selection reasons should be shunned and ostracized. If such a practice could be specified with certainty, I would have no problem with making it illegal.

However, as a practical matter this law, or any law for that matter, that does not rely on some currently unknown form of mind-reading can accomplish such an outcome. The only way the relevant provision of the Oklahoma law would ever come to be used is if the woman told the abortion provider in no uncertain terms that the reason for the abortion was gender selection. And any abortion provider worth his or her salt woudl undoubtedly steer the discussion away from gender selection to the point where a prosecution would be infeasible.

The way to stop gender selection abortions is through moral approbation, not law.

128 irish rose  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:46:47pm

Evening, lizards.
Thought I'd log in tonight for a while.

Looks like you were right about Zombie, Shar.
In light of what we know now, it's hard for me to admit that Zombie was someone that I once respected and defended. I look back at some of the things that I said to other lizards here who had her figured out a while back, with regret.

It was very poor judgement on my part.

129 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:47:05pm

re: #115 Thanos

You couldn't go wrong with Jimmy Choos...
///

130 Taqyia2Me  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:47:13pm

As for me, I will continue to mourn those never born and pray for those who made that particular choice.
Those never born, clearly the most innocent party, yet given the death penalty in these circumstances.

That being said, this new law does NOTHING to promote "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

131 in excess  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:47:21pm

#23
This is one of the biggest issues that has led me to abandon the Republican Party, by the way. The obsession with dominating the lives and choices of women is repellent to me, and I can't ignore it any more.

Really?!? One of the biggest?!?
Be clear on one thing, it is never been about an 'obsession with dominating the lives and choices of women', it is about saving the lives of the unborn. Nothing more.

132 martinsmithy  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:47:58pm

re: #127 martinsmithy
For "can accomplish such an outcome" substitute "CANNOT accomplish such an outcome."

PIMF

133 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:48:22pm

re: #124 SixDegrees

Wow...you can't even discuss an issue without getting hateful. Who would say such a thing?

134 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:48:25pm

re: #127 martinsmithy

So do you think it's ok to publish information that would allow people to ID said woman so they can shun her?

135 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:48:26pm

re: #116 jill e

Why is that?

Uhhh. Wow. Okay, for an example of how this is a stupid argument, try sentencing guidelines for violent crimes. The "what if that was you/your wife/your kid/your sainted grandmother??" attitude would mean that all sentencing guidelines for violent crimes would be completely draconian and ridiculous, because then the entire justice system would be eye-for-an-eye.

136 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:48:36pm

re: #128 irish rose

Hey you! How are you feeling?
Hope today finds you healthy

137 Nadnerb  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:48:52pm

re: #117 tradewind

Hard to keep up with things sometimes. I was enjoying my time away from news big-time.

138 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:48:55pm

re: #126 jill e

That kind of response is just really sad...

Not even close to your own pathetic intrusion into other's private lives.

Plague is natural. Enjoy some of that.

139 Martinsmithy  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:49:42pm

For post #127, replace "can" with "CANNOT"

PIMF.

140 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:49:48pm

If I've said this once, I've said it 100 times. Until the GOP de-emphasizes the abortion issue, it is telling a huge paecentage of the population to go f*ck itself. This is particularly true among females and jewish females in particular. This issue really IS that important. I'm not saying the GOP has to abandon the pro life issue completely, but it needs to make it a minor issue, not a major one.

141 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:49:50pm

re: #121 SixDegrees

And interestingly, the overlap between these anti-vaxers and the anti-abortion crowd is non-negligible. On the right, the opposition to vaccines is grounded in a distrust of all science as an afront to religion - see, once again, the Wedge Document for details.

And once they start piling children's bodies up in the streets because their parents decided God didn't want 'em vaccinated, do you think they'll accept responsibility for their murders?

I'm finding the anti-vaxers on the left too. I was amazed this past Sunday, searching for any sort of talk radio on the way to my theatre, so much sports on, and I got Ring of Fire, with Bobby Kennedy Jr. and Mike Papantonio, and Kennedy was saying be careful with the flu vaccine and Mike Papantonio was just outright saying don't take it.

142 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:49:54pm

re: #116 jill e

Why is that?

Uhhh. Wow. Okay, for an example of how this is a stupid argument, try sentencing guidelines for violent crimes. The "what if that was you/your wife/your kid/your sainted grandmother??" attitude would mean that all sentencing guidelines for violent crimes would be completely draconian and ridiculous, because then the entire justice system would be eye-for-an-eye.

143 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:50:02pm

re: #128 irish rose

Hope you are feeling better

144 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:51:04pm

re: #112 tradewind

I understand your point, but using a logical fallacy to make it isn't helpful.
That's the equivalent of saying that because people die a natural death every day, there's not a problem with shooting someone.
(Please note that I am not comparing abortion to shooting anyone... it's just an illustration re the reasoning there).

Hrm.. You are right, of course. I think it's hard to make a really honest analogy since abortions are not made for one distinct reason.
I reacted primarily to the original phrasing "every abortion at every point in the pregnancy ends the life of a genetically-distinct human being", which is simply not true. Abortions are also the removal of already dead fetuses, which alone disproves the "every abortion" premise.

The included "don't have to come at this from a religious standpoint" seemed very dishonest, both because of the latter addition, and that it seems to equate biological cells with sentience.

I'll try to be more accurate in the future.

145 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:51:32pm

Welcome to the Evening drive dead zone.

146 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:51:47pm

re: #121 SixDegrees

And interestingly, the overlap between these anti-vaxers and the anti-abortion crowd is non-negligible. On the right, the opposition to vaccines is grounded in a distrust of all science as an afront to religion - see, once again, the Wedge Document for details.

And once they start piling children's bodies up in the streets because their parents decided God didn't want 'em vaccinated, do you think they'll accept responsibility for their murders?

I'm finding the anti-vaxers on the left too. I was amazed this past Sunday, searching for any sort of talk radio on the way to my theatre, so much sports on, and I got Ring of Fire, with Bobby Kennedy Jr. and Mike Papantonio, and Kennedy was saying be careful with the flu vaccine and Mike Papantonio was just outright saying don't take it.

147 Martinsmithy  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:52:21pm

Remove "can accomplish such an outcome" insert "CANNOT accomplish such an outcome."

PIMF

148 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:52:28pm

re: #112 tradewind

I understand your point, but using a logical fallacy to make it isn't helpful.
That's the equivalent of saying that because people die a natural death every day, there's not a problem with shooting someone.
(Please note that I am not comparing abortion to shooting anyone... it's just an illustration re the reasoning there).

Hrm.. You are right, of course. I think it's hard to make a really honest analogy since abortions are not made for one distinct reason.
I reacted primarily to the original phrasing "every abortion at every point in the pregnancy ends the life of a genetically-distinct human being", which is simply not true. Abortions are also the removal of already dead fetuses, which alone disproves the "every abortion" premise.

The included "don't have to come at this from a religious standpoint" seemed very dishonest, both because of the latter addition, and that it seems to equate biological cells with sentience.

I'll try to be more accurate in the future.

149 Cathypop  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:52:38pm

re: #128 irish rose

Evening, lizards.
Thought I'd log in tonight for a while.

Looks like you were right about Zombie, Shar.
In light of what we know now, it's hard for me to admit that Zombie was someone that I once respected and defended. I look back at some of the things that I said to other lizards here who had her figured out a while back, with regret.

It was very poor judgement on my part.


You have a big heart not bad judgement.
Take care

150 Nadnerb  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:53:02pm

re: #117 tradewind

That was a surprising development to me, I just had to ask. Sorry Charles for discussing it here.

The coolest thing on Sunday was the Carl Sagan video. I've watched it a dozen times...

151 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:53:28pm

re: #128 irish rose

Evening, lizards.
Thought I'd log in tonight for a while.

Looks like you were right about Zombie, Shar.
In light of what we know now, it's hard for me to admit that Zombie was someone that I once respected and defended. I look back at some of the things that I said to other lizards here who had her figured out a while back, with regret.

It was very poor judgement on my part.

Hope you are feeling better

152 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:53:35pm
153 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:54:09pm

If I've said this once, I've said it 100 times. Until the GOP de-emphasizes the abortion issue, it is telling a huge paecentage of the population to go f*ck itself. This is particularly true among females and Jewish females in particular. This issue really IS that important. I'm not saying the GOP has to abandon the pro life issue completely, but it needs to make it a minor issue, not a major one.

154 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:54:23pm
155 Cathypop  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:54:37pm

re: #128 irish rose

Evening, lizards.
Thought I'd log in tonight for a while.

Looks like you were right about Zombie, Shar.
In light of what we know now, it's hard for me to admit that Zombie was someone that I once respected and defended. I look back at some of the things that I said to other lizards here who had her figured out a while back, with regret.

It was very poor judgement on my part.


You have a big heart not poor judgement.
Take care Rose

156 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:54:42pm

re: #128 irish rose

It was very poor judgement on my part.

We didn't have all the information. That some were able to deduce the truth with the same information makes them admirable, but I think those of us who were surprised are not culpable. But sorry, yes. So am I.

157 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:55:02pm

re: #112 tradewind

I understand your point, but using a logical fallacy to make it isn't helpful.
That's the equivalent of saying that because people die a natural death every day, there's not a problem with shooting someone.
(Please note that I am not comparing abortion to shooting anyone... it's just an illustration re the reasoning there).

Hrm.. You are right, of course. I think it's hard to make a really honest analogy since abortions are not made for one distinct reason.
I reacted primarily to the original phrasing "every abortion at every point in the pregnancy ends the life of a genetically-distinct human being", which is simply not true. Abortions are also the removal of already dead fetuses, which alone disproves the "every abortion" premise.

The included "don't have to come at this from a religious standpoint" seemed very dishonest, both because of the latter addition, and that it seems to equate biological cells with sentience.

I'll try to be more accurate in the future.

158 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:55:09pm
159 sagehen  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:56:17pm

re: #74 Bubblehead II

Maybe I am misinterpreting this, but couldn't section 1 paragraph 10 require a woman taking RU-48 aka the morning after pill to self report herself for performing a de-facto abortion?


Of course not, women can't be trusted to self-report. The pharmacist who rings up the sale will fill out the form before she can take her purchase out of the store.

/

160 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:56:57pm

is anyone else having problems getting comments to post?

161 freetoken  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57:13pm

Speaking of anti-vaxxers and H1N1... guess who was on this topic today... cough, cough... Glenn Beck... And his lede?

"How much to you trust your government?" and so forth.

He whines about lack of trust in gov't ... and yet he is the #1 perp!!!

Wha a hypocrite Beck his.

162 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57:35pm

re: #124 SixDegrees

Wow...you can't even discuss an issue without getting hateful. Who would say such a thing?

163 Aye Pod  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:57:45pm

re: #89 Thor-Zone

I am so tired of abortion. The left wants everyone to have as many abortions as they can possibly get. The right wants no abortions under any circumstance.

Can't we just give it a rest. My head is ready to explode.

Moron.

164 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:58:10pm
165 amused  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:58:29pm

I think the 'save the baby humans' folks are really more about making themselves feel good about themselves rather than actually saving any baby humans. It's an easy righteous stance to take that doesn't require much thought about the consequences. I'm pro-baby, that makes me special.

166 Nadnerb  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:58:58pm

re: #117 tradewind

That was a surprising development to me, I just had to ask. Sorry Charles for discussing it here.

The coolest thing on Sunday was the Carl Sagan video. I've watched it a dozen times...

167 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 4:59:41pm

re: #157 cenotaphium

I smack my forehead in shame. How the hell did I manage to triple post here?

I'll just crawl under a rock for a bit now.. :(

168 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:00:25pm

re: #131 in excess

I think it's also about the women who are in situations that they feel this is their only choice. If it's truly about choice, I'm afraid many are not really given the information they should receive.

169 In Excess  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:01:14pm

Sorry, computer problems. You can delete duplicated posts.

170 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:01:50pm

re: #160 _RememberTonyC

is anyone else having problems getting comments to post?

Big time.. I said the same thing 3 times...Then it posted...
/Yes.. I know I said it thrice.. It's not like I'm St. Peter here...
//This won't post.or will it?

171 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:01:52pm

There was a glitch in the matrix.

172 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:02:12pm

re: #141 Walter L. Newton

I'm finding the anti-vaxers on the left too. I was amazed this past Sunday, searching for any sort of talk radio on the way to my theatre, so much sports on, and I got Ring of Fire, with Bobby Kennedy Jr. and Mike Papantonio, and Kennedy was saying be careful with the flu vaccine and Mike Papantonio was just outright saying don't take it.

I agree that this particular form of stupidity crosses political lines. But many of it's supporters on the right have their own unique rationale for it, grounded in the rejection of science.

But I hardly think that Jenny McCarthy or Oprah are exactly right-wingers.

173 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:03:00pm

re: #165 amused

Certainly not my motivation. I'm was a 1970s feminist-kind of person and it was a lot easier being a "choice" person.

174 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:03:05pm
175 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:03:12pm

*peeks out from under rock*

So it wasn't just me? Phew.

176 allegro  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:04:01pm

Oh, jeez... local FOX news lead-in for their 9pm show: how birth control pills can lead women to choosing "the wrong kind of man." WTF?

177 Irish Rose  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:04:38pm

re: #136 HoosierHoops

Hey you! How are you feeling?
Hope today finds you healthy

Feeling a lot better thanks, today is first day since Monday that I've been able to breathe comfortably.

178 Racer X  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:05:07pm

No On Bigger Government! ! ! !
*except in matters of the personal choice of a woman to have an abortion. Then it is alright for the government to step in and tell them what to do.
- "The Right"

179 SFGoth  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:05:51pm

re: #6 Charles

Either way is considered correct. I avoid using hyphens unless they're clearly called for.

Yeah, but they're waaay cooler.

180 RealismRox  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:06:11pm

re: #176 allegro

Oh, jeez... local FOX news lead-in for their 9pm show: how birth control pills can lead women to choosing "the wrong kind of man." WTF?

Seen this story repeated all over the right-wing blogs for a while. It says that taking birth control pills leads women to choose less masculine partners. Doesn't take a lot of imagination to see why they like the story.

181 Cathypop  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:06:32pm

re: #176 allegro

No respect for yourself leads women to the wrong man.

182 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:06:45pm

re: #169 In Excess

Sorry, computer problems. You can delete duplicated posts.

I took the opportunity to give you the triple downding. Thanks!

183 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:06:59pm

re: #178 Racer X

No On Bigger Government! ! ! !
*except in matters of the personal choice of a woman to have an abortion. Then it is alright for the government to step in and tell them what to do.
- "The Right"

Pro Family (except when it comes to families making decisions on life and death for themselves)

184 [deleted]  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:06:59pm
185 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:07:37pm

re: #148 cenotaphium

Actually, I was being peckish... long day and pressure dropping/feeling tornado-ish here.
It's nice when two people with opposite viewpoints can talk and debate an issue without it devolving into name-calling and spite... I always appreciate your posts, even when we do not share the same opinion.

186 Nadnerb  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:07:58pm

Sorry for the double post. Darn.

187 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:08:23pm

re: #181 Cathypop

No respect for yourself leads women to the wrong man.

And being responsible about your reproductive choices, like by using birth control and condoms, is all about having respect for one's self.

188 Ojoe  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:08:28pm

As a practical matter on this topic, the supportive approach of organizations like Catholic Charities works better. There's plenty of love to go around, actually.

189 Racer X  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:08:28pm

re: #183 Thanos

Pro Family (except when it comes to families making decisions on life and death for themselves)

See, thats why I don't post much. You guys' posts are much more betterer.

;-)

190 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:08:39pm

re: #178 Racer X

It could go the other way too, can't it?

"I want bigger government to take care of everything!"---except when pregnancies occur and I want to get an abortion, then I want to be free to do whatever.

191 Cathypop  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:08:53pm

It looks like alot of lizards have doublepostititis.

192 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:09:38pm

Wow, Stinky's busy tonight

193 cenotaphium  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:11:05pm

re: #192 Thanos

Wow, Stinky's busy tonight

Newbie question: Is that a moderator/janitor?

194 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:11:14pm

This is a clear exercise in the coercive power of the state for a narrow purpose. Under the guise of collecting health-care stats, these SOB's are attempting to hassle the patients, burden the doctors, and generate, at taxpayer expense, a mass of data that can have no purpose other than to provide grist for the anti-abortionists' mill. No matter WHAT data this thing would uncover, it would be exploited.

I'll add, too, that part of this may be intended simply to make the whole thing so freakin' burdensome for doctor and patient alike as to discourage the practice in the state altogether. That's a hell of a lot of data being gathered, and I'm at a loss to understand what scientific purpose it could serve.

195 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:11:17pm

re: #181 Cathypop

Oh, I don't know... sometimes the pheromones just decide to go rogue.

196 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:11:24pm

re: #192 Thanos

Wow, Stinky's busy tonight

I think he is just clearing up the double posts. The server was not responding and I think (I know I did it), I tried reposting a comment more than once, thinking the problem was on my end.

Well, it wasn't, they were caching up at the server end and 39 appeared all at once in the que.

197 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:11:26pm

re: #193 cenotaphium

Newbie question: Is that a moderator/janitor?

Yes.

198 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:12:03pm

re: #193 cenotaphium

Newbie question: Is that a moderator/janitor?

Stinky is the great dread Boss who confronts trolls at the end of each stage of the side-scrolling (ok, you turn the monitor on its side and it works) arcade game that is LGF.

199 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:12:04pm

re: #193 cenotaphium

I think it is the Head Moderator himself. Maybe called Stinky because of the sock connection.

200 allegro  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:12:25pm

.

.. then I want to be free to do whatever.

Wow, imagine that. A woman wanting to be in full control her reproductive life and health... yanno, whatever.

201 Cathypop  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:12:55pm

re: #195 tradewind

Oh, I don't know... sometimes the pheromones just decide to go rogue.


Been there, done that and now know better. I have alot of respect for myself.

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:13:04pm

re: #27 Rightwingconspirator

I'm a pro choice person, have been all my adult life. I would not want the above law to stand. But sometimes (at least this one example) the choice is based on a reason that makes me shudder. If sex selection abortion is a mere matter of choice, is there any reason too trivial to justify that decision? Just keep trying until you get what you want? I find that idea selfish. Am I wrong here?

Morally, speaking, I don't believe you are. I do not like the idea of gender-based abortion at all, at all. (Dunno how much of it is happening in OK, but that's beside the point.) But I cannot find it in me to support making it illegal. It's absolutely unenforceable, and its only purpose is to create a legal precedent for limiting an individual patient's choice whether or not to terminate a pregnancy.

203 sagehen  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:13:23pm

re: #131 in excess


Really?!? One of the biggest?!?
Be clear on one thing, it is never been about an 'obsession with dominating the lives and choices of women', it is about saving the lives of the unborn. Nothing more.

Really? Saving the precious unborn? When then were the "pro-lifers" so conspicuously silent when liberals wanted gov't subsidized pre-natal care, and conservatives opposed? Why did the "pro-lifers" have not a word of complaint when Bush slashed the WIC program?

204 freetoken  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:13:23pm

So I'm watching the Beck clip from today's H1N1 discussion... the guy just never quits. There is no true discussion, just the spreading of doubt about authorities and knowlege... true manipulation.

205 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:13:56pm

re: #191 Cathypop

It looks like alot of lizards have doublepostititis.

I thought there was something wrong with my browser, but it looks like it was some sort of server glitch. Submitted a post, and the page went to never-never land, refreshed, didn't see the post, resent it and...well, you see what happened.
re: #194 Guanxi88

This is a clear exercise in the coercive power of the state for a narrow purpose. Under the guise of collecting health-care stats, these SOB's are attempting to hassle the patients, burden the doctors, and generate, at taxpayer expense, a mass of data that can have no purpose other than to provide grist for the anti-abortionists' mill. No matter WHAT data this thing would uncover, it would be exploited.

I'll add, too, that part of this may be intended simply to make the whole thing so freakin' burdensome for doctor and patient alike as to discourage the practice in the state altogether. That's a hell of a lot of data being gathered, and I'm at a loss to understand what scientific purpose it could serve.

Correct. As noted earlier, it's also a form of direct intimidation, holding the threat of "We'll put all your information on the Internet and tell everyone you had an abortion!" over patient's heads.

206 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:13:59pm

re: #33 bratwurst

Funny, seems like many of the "great Americans" I saw at the 9/12 march were demanding that the government get out of their lives.

THEIR lives. Not the lady NEXT DOOR's life.

/

207 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:14:20pm

re: #181 Cathypop

No respect for yourself leads women to the wrong man.

It's a funny story..whoops I mean study..I read about it early this morning..
The Readers Digest version is that in the 50's before BC men were rugged and women fainted over them.. As BC started being taken in the 60's..70's, 80's 90's
Men became more sissy looking and woman were draw to those guys..
Remember in the 80's when all us guys had hair that took us 30 minutes in the mirror and a hair blower to perfect? You may not know this.. But because you were on Birth control..Sorry..You then go for more sissy looking guys...2009 and every woman wants Zac...
It may be the most stupid story on the entire Internet today...

208 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:14:21pm

re: #204 freetoken

So I'm watching the Beck clip from today's H1N1 discussion... the guy just never quits. There is no true discussion, just the spreading of doubt about authorities and knowlege... true manipulation.

Maybe he'll have Jim Carey on if he whips up enough fear over vaccinations.

209 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:14:22pm

re: #200 allegro

I was just addressing RX's post.

Personally, I feel like if half the attention placed on abortion is placed on other issues, the world would be a better place. Don't really care about the issue enough to comment strongly either way.

210 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:15:12pm

Typical social conservative religious right nuttery, I understand why they want to dictate morals, behavior, and beliefs to everyone else, that is obvious. What isn't so obvious is when or if the Republican legislators are going to realize that by giving these people what they want they are driving away everyone else.

Damn few people want a theocracy in this country, moves like this one make it appear as though the GOP supports the idea though, that scares a lot of people sh*tless. One wonders if the religious right is going to become even more frantic and strident as more and more people turn away from the church (and by extension the GOP)? Atheist and agnostic numbers have doubled in this country over the last twenty years to 16.1%, add to that the deists (no personal god) that are now up to almost 12% of the population. Can the theocrats not see that their own hateful actions are what is responsible for driving people from the church?

It isn't the gays, lack of forced prayer in the schools, evolution, or reproductive rights that are killing the church. It is their turning the message of love, fellowship, and brotherhood that Jesus taught into one of bigotry, narrow-mindedness, and irrationality. I truly and deeply despise these people and their message, not that they will care, their arrogance is limitless...

211 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:16:00pm

re: #52 iceweasel

Sure. They're all about 'personal responsibility', 'personal liberty', and keeping the gov't out of people's business...unless it's about women taking personal responsibility over their sexual and reproductive destinies and their right to become mothers only when and how they choose.

Silly women can't be trusted with their uteruses and control over them.

Wait, but...but...I thought it was the liberals who were only pro-choice one way...

//dripping

212 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:16:35pm

I think the hard Socon Religious right is going to ensure that the Dem's retain congress if they keep the crap up.

213 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:16:45pm

re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist

THEIR lives. Not the lady NEXT DOOR's life.

/

Besides, don't you know that the only moral abortion is theirabortion?

///

214 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:17:00pm

re: #204 freetoken

As whack as Beck can be, I caught some of that just to see if he had drunk the anti-vaxxer koolaid, in which case I was going to puke and write a letter of protest to Fox. He actually did not, and had two reputable physicians with opposing viewpoints on the H1n1 vaccine who seemed to at least acknowledge that the other was a qualified and respected doctor. The controversy seemed centered not on whether vaccinating children was a good idea in general, or whether or not the flu was a real danger, rather the manufacturing techniques and origins of a particular vaccine. He did not accuse anyone of a conspiracy, nor did he rant against flu shots.

215 Dainn  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:17:15pm

Welcome all you (non-sockpuppet) new hatchlings. I know I'm a little late saying so, but better late than never.

216 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:17:54pm

The same people who ginned this law up are probably cheering Michele Bachmann on her Census avoidance stance.

217 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:18:06pm

re: #6 Charles

Charles was correct you don't use a hyphen to link an adverb that ends in -ly with the word it modifies; the -ly itself signifies a linkage.

218 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:18:10pm

re: #209 TheMatrix31

I was just addressing RX's post.

Personally, I feel like if half the attention placed on abortion is placed on other issues, the world would be a better place. Don't really care about the issue enough to comment strongly either way.

51 percent of the world -- the people who have a uterus-- think these issues about their rights to control their reproductive lives are kind of a big deal.

219 Irish Rose  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:18:16pm

re: #210 ausador

Can the theocrats not see that their own hateful actions are what is responsible for driving people from the church?

It isn't the gays, lack of forced prayer in the schools, evolution, or reproductive rights that are killing the church. It is their turning the message of love, fellowship, and brotherhood that Jesus taught into one of bigotry, narrow-mindedness, and irrationality. I truly and deeply despise these people and their message, not that they will care, their arrogance is limitless...

Very well stated.

220 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:18:35pm

I was wondering why this video was posted on stormfront today...
Welfare Stampede in Detroit

Liveleak Video

It seems Rush has been race baiting again...
Rush Limbaugh WJR People In Line For Obama Money

Youtube Video
221 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:18:36pm

re: #216 Thanos

Playing Twister again, are we...
:)

222 Thor-Zone  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:18:38pm

Lighten up guys...I am just trying to say that the abortion debate is wearing me out. It is not up to me whether someone chooses to have an abortion. It is not my decision one way or another. I'm just tired of so much tearing of clothes and knashing of teeth.

I'm just sayin'

223 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:19:24pm

Nice use of the people's time and money there, Mr. Lamb. Hey, why let your duty to the citizens stand in the way of cheap (because on somebody else's dime) grandstanding?

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:19:28pm

re: #70 iceweasel

And they'll lie to spread misinformation to women who might seek abortions. Just like they do now, claiming that abortions cause depression, suicide, breast cancer, infertility, you name it.

Abortion has been linked to broken ankles. There are studies showing it. OK, it's just my study of two women I know. They each had an abortion in the 90s, and in the past three years, each of them has broken her ankle. Coincidence? Maybe. Don't women deserve to know these facts, and make up their own minds?

225 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:19:35pm

re: #220 Killgore Trout

Drudge and Malkin will post the video in the next day or two.

226 Cathypop  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:19:46pm

re: #207 HoosierHoops

It's a funny story..whoops I mean study..I read about it early this morning..
The Readers Digest version is that in the 50's before BC men were rugged and women fainted over them.. As BC started being taken in the 60's..70's, 80's 90's
Men became more sissy looking and woman were draw to those guys..
Remember in the 80's when all us guys had hair that took us 30 minutes in the mirror and a hair blower to perfect? You may not know this.. But because you were on Birth control..Sorry..You then go for more sissy looking guys...2009 and every woman wants Zac...
It may be the most stupid story on the entire Internet today...

Never had and never wanted a sissy man. AMEN!
Just finished reading "Act like a lady, think like a man" He stresses that a woman has to respect herself so that aman will also respect her.

227 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:20:06pm

re: #208 Thanos

Beck goes off on enough crazy tangents... you don't need to add anti-vaxxer to his resume, because it's not the case.

228 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:20:29pm

re: #210 ausador

You know, I am seriously considering changing my bio statement to "Why are my fellow Christians so unlike Christ?", given how often I've been saying it lately.

229 Irish Rose  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:21:02pm

re: #228 Dante41

You know, I am seriously considering changing my bio statement to "Why are my fellow Christians so unlike Christ?", given how often I've been saying it lately.

You and me both.

230 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:21:17pm

re: #210 ausador

Typical social conservative religious right nuttery, I understand why they want to dictate morals, behavior, and beliefs to everyone else, that is obvious. What isn't so obvious is when or if the Republican legislators are going to realize that by giving these people what they want they are driving away everyone else.

Damn few people want a theocracy in this country, moves like this one make it appear as though the GOP supports the idea though, that scares a lot of people sh*tless. One wonders if the religious right is going to become even more frantic and strident as more and more people turn away from the church (and by extension the GOP)? Atheist and agnostic numbers have doubled in this country over the last twenty years to 16.1%, add to that the deists (no personal god) that are now up to almost 12% of the population. Can the theocrats not see that their own hateful actions are what is responsible for driving people from the church?

It isn't the gays, lack of forced prayer in the schools, evolution, or reproductive rights that are killing the church. It is their turning the message of love, fellowship, and brotherhood that Jesus taught into one of bigotry, narrow-mindedness, and irrationality. I truly and deeply despise these people and their message, not that they will care, their arrogance is limitless...

The religious nutters sense the current vacuum in the GOP, and are doing everything in their power to fill it with their own theocratic vision of how America ought to be run. And they are doing so in part by whipping up fear among their followers, which is only being amplified by other goofballs like Beck, the resurgent John Birch Society and other fringe elements, all angling for a slice of the power they sense is available due to the GOP's formal absense.

On the plus side, the vast majority of Americans are strongly opposed to such bilge. Most have been content to ignore it up 'til now, as it's largely played out in the background. Now that it's in the forefront, it may finally be possible to purge the Bible thumpers from the GOP for good, and reclaim Conservatism - which has no room at all for those who seek to intrude on the private lives of citizens or force a particular brand of religion down the throats of everyone in the country.

The GOP's message to the religious right ought to be "Get the fuck off my lawn!"

231 In Excess  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:21:36pm

#203
Your statement answers your own question.

'liberals wanted gov't subsidized pre-natal care, and conservatives opposed'

Conservatives want gov't OUT of their lives. Anyone should know that by now.

You also assume all pro-lifers are conservatives and all conservatives are pro-lifers.

232 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:22:11pm

re: #230 SixDegrees

The GOP's message to the religious right ought to be "Get the fuck off my lawn!"

That's been my family's battle cry since we first moved to the 'burbs.

233 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:22:13pm

re: #5 SFGoth

Charles, I believe "religiously motivated" should be "religiously-motivated".

1. Grammar police is my job around here.

2. You're flat-out wrong.

234 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:22:30pm

re: #76 HoosierHoops

Damn..I can't spell tonight..Maybe try that button for spellcheck sometime..
*wink*
You know what is funny.. You know my last name..It doesn't get any more German than that..Seriously..
Have you ever had any one tell you? ' You don't look German'
Really..All you can do is throw your arms up and say ' TA DA!'

I once had a man tell me, very seriously, after Shabbos Shacharit, that I didn't look Jewish. Romanian maybe. What can you say to this? I made the error of chalking it up to my father's Irish genes, which led to a much longer conversation than previously planned.

(I do, in fact look Romanian. Also Spanish. I think it's the effect of Germano-Celtic facial features being layered over with something Semitic.)

235 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:22:32pm

re: #211 SanFranciscoZionist

Wait, but...but...I thought it was the liberals who were only pro-choice one way...

//dripping

My home office is in Santa Clara ( Silly Cone Valley ) Next time I am there I would love to do lunch in the City with you...
Regards

236 amused  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:22:37pm

Abortion is also a wonderful fund raising issue. It's full of emotion and righteousnous. Perfect for demagoguery. And don't forget to donate to the Save the Blastocyst! fund.

237 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:22:44pm

re: #231 In Excess

#203
Your statement answers your own question.

'liberals wanted gov't subsidized pre-natal care, and conservatives opposed'

Conservatives want gov't OUT of their lives. Anyone should know that by now.

You also assume all pro-lifers are conservatives and all conservatives are pro-lifers.

Anti-choice groups are overwhelmingly Republicans. And only Republican politicians push these kinds of draconian laws down people's throats.

238 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:23:52pm

re: #234 SanFranciscoZionist

I once had a man tell me, very seriously, after Shabbos Shacharit, that I didn't look Jewish. Romanian maybe. What can you say to this? I made the error of chalking it up to my father's Irish genes, which led to a much longer conversation than previously planned.

(I do, in fact look Romanian. Also Spanish. I think it's the effect of Germano-Celtic facial features being layered over with something Semitic.)

You sure you're not one of them shape-shifters I keep hearing about?

239 lastlaugh  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:23:55pm

re: #228 Dante41

You know, I am seriously considering changing my bio statement to "Why are my fellow Christians so unlike Christ?", given how often I've been saying it lately.

"Jesus, what should we do with this woman caught in adultery?"

"Verily, I say unto thee, take down her age, education level, number of partners, years married, type of insurance, and tell them to the world, for um, statistical purposes."

240 Dainn  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:24:35pm

re: #217 jill e

Charles was correct you don't use a hyphen to link an adverb that ends in -ly with the word it modifies; the -ly itself signifies a linkage.

Here is an Electric Company song by Tom Lehrer (a great political satirist) that should help explain it. :)

Enjoy!

241 freetoken  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:24:42pm

re: #214 tradewind

Key to his presentation is the undermining of knowledge and authority. Yes, he had on two doctors... sat them opposite sides of the table. Gives the viewer the idea that there is a CONTROVERSY with roughly equivalent validity for each side, so the viewer is the one who simply has to make a choice based on personal desire.

This may sound good to you... but it is just another variant of TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!

As near as I can tell, the overwhelmingly wise choice would be to vaccinate those in greatest danger or those who come in close contact with them. Yes, there are two sides of the issue, but the evidence is strongly in support of vaccination.

Don't fall for the anti-vaxxer version of the "Wedge" strategy.

242 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:24:50pm

re: #222 Thor-Zone

It is not going to decide my vote to run the country, personal views notwithstanding, and until the perfect candidate is produced, it's just self-defeating to vote single-issue on cultural and religious matters.

243 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:25:04pm

re: #239 lastlaugh

"Jesus, what should we do with this woman caught in adultery?"

"Verily, I say unto thee, take down her age, education level, number of partners, years married, type of insurance, and tell them to the world, for um, statistical purposes."

That's gonna leave a mark.

244 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:25:29pm

re: #220 Killgore Trout

I was wondering why this video was posted on stormfront today...
Welfare Stampede in Detroit

[Video]

Yes, Rush Limbaugh is race-baiting again. He's getting much more open about it these days, with Obama in office, just like the rest of the right wing.

245 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:25:54pm

re: #233 Cato the Elder

1. Grammar police is my job around here.

2. You're flat-out wrong.

For you, my good Cato:

Link

246 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:26:41pm

Malkin is race baiting over the Black Caucus. Her commenters...

On October 8th, 2009 at 2:22 pm, iamsaved said:

It’s always about race isn’t it?

Maybe they should re-read Pat Buchanan’s article (link removed-ed)on race. Where’s the gratitude from the Black community?


...

On October 8th, 2009 at 2:40 pm, Rob said:

Slavery was SUCH a huge mistake. Just think what this nation would be like without it… sigh


...

On October 8th, 2009 at 2:44 pm, xler8bmw said:

Fair is Fair where is the White Caucus?


...

On October 8th, 2009 at 3:47 pm, maisy said:

They studied under Charlie Manson….Helter Skelter-
Race War on!

etc, etc, etc

247 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:27:05pm

re: #239 lastlaugh

"Jesus, what should we do with this woman caught in adultery?"

"Verily, I say unto thee, take down her age, education level, number of partners, years married, type of insurance, and tell them to the world, for um, statistical purposes."

Oooo... Biblical Burn!

248 poteen  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:27:23pm

re: #220 Killgore Trout

Tying Limbaugh to stormfront because Detroit is the way it is.
You're better than that KT.

249 freetoken  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:27:33pm

Speaking of Right Wing on a Stick... I see that Sarah Palin is promoting the Fisk story about the dollar...

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

"Drill, Baby, Drill!"

Palin is in full revanchist mode... those evil greenies are destroying our dollar by not letting us drill... etc, etc, etc...

250 sngnsgt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:28:18pm

re: #196 Walter L. Newton

Replied to your e-mail, I just received a phone call and have an appointment with a pro in the morning...

251 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:28:22pm

re: #241 freetoken

Sat them on opposite sides of the table? WTF? Were they supposed to sit in each others' laps?
I saw the presentation. I didn't see any craziness, and I was looking for it.

252 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:28:24pm

re: #244 Charles

I can't believe how bad it's become. Looking back over the past few years I can see the warning signs but I dismissed them.

253 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:28:28pm

re: #227 tradewind

Beck goes off on enough crazy tangents... you don't need to add anti-vaxxer to his resume, because it's not the case.

Are you kidding? The Alex Jones types already have Glen Becks' speculation about government forcing you to be vaccinated or quarantined in a place of their choice. Maybe the "quarantine zone" is next to the FEMA camps?

254 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:28:43pm

re: #248 poteen

Tying Limbaugh to stormfront because Detroit is the way it is.
You're better than that KT.

No, I'm not.

255 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:28:46pm

re: #248 poteen

Tying Limbaugh to stormfront because Detroit is the way it is.
You're better than that KT.

It's a totally fair comparison -- the neo-Nazis at Stormfront have very finely tuned antennae for race-baiting, and they recognized exactly what Limbaugh was doing.

256 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:29:07pm

re: #111 freetoken

Speaking of children, parents and medicine, on the AP headlines:

AP Poll: Third of parents oppose swine flu vaccine


Related the story yesterday of overhearing (at the grocery story) two people yammering in full anti-vaxx mode... it is easy for me to believe the AP report.

My bloody HUSBAND doesn't want to get vaccinated. I need to get this man edumacated before we reproduce.

257 freetoken  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:30:27pm

re: #251 tradewind

Recommend you go listen to the beginning of the segment again. Beck plants all the key questions into his viewers minds... intentionally, with skill and cunning.

258 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:30:40pm

re: #253 Thanos

Excuse me... the question was whether or not an employer could force an employee to be vaccinated, or be fired. If you get a transcript, you will also see... shock... that he said he thought the government had handled the flu thing well so far.

259 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:31:09pm

re: #29 JasonA

As someone who thinks China's one child policy led to repulsive results, no, I don't think you're wrong to not like that idea.

China has a generation that's top-heavy with men.

260 Dainn  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:31:22pm

People who don't get vaccines and claim they never get sick are often that way because all the smarter people around them are vaccinated.

261 Guanxi88  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:31:49pm

re: #230 SixDegrees


The GOP's message to the religious right ought to be "Get the fuck off my lawn!"

I've told it before, but it fits here & now so here goes.

In the town where I was raised, we were THE JEWISH FAMILY; honestly, that's how we were known.

Anyway, we used to get pamphleteers and such from this, that, and the other groups coming by to offer their information. Most were very nice about it, and they were, in general, sincerely concerned for our well-being as they understood it. You can't fault a person for wanting you should go to Heaven, after all, and they weren't pushy or rude about it, so were were always very pleasant. Iced tea, that sorta thing.

Except this one guy, who had a chip on his shoulder. We thanked him, but he wouldn't take no for an answer, and so my mother went to close the door. he put his foot in the way.

Without pausing, she calls to me "Boy, get my gun!" and, dutiful son that I was, I did.

I hear her saying to him, "Mister, if you don't move that foot, we're gonna find out if you're right or not."

And he disappeared like the dew of the morning from the grass.

262 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:32:08pm

re: #244 Charles

Yes, Rush Limbaugh is race-baiting again. He's getting much more open about it these days, with Obama in office, just like the rest of the right wing.

I haven't seen the video, but I'm guessing it's about the scuffle at Cobo over some sort of government program applications. Local authorities - true to form for Detroit officials, sad to say - gave out seriously wrong information about who was eligible for the funds, implying that pretty much anyone with a heartbeat was going to get money handed to them. The crowd, needless to say, was much larger than expected, people started trying to jump the line, things got mildly ugly and about ten minutes later it was all over. Police showed up, cleared people out of the building and hung around to ensure that the very small staff present didn't get overwhelmed by keeping too many people from entering.

I don't even know the details of what the funds were or who they were for, but the blame for this incident rests squarely with Detroit officials doing what they do best - screwing things up.

263 lastlaugh  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:32:11pm

re: #247 Dante41

Oooo... Biblical Burn!

Well, not for long.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

264 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:32:37pm

re: #250 sngnsgt

Replied to your e-mail, I just received a phone call and have an appointment with a pro in the morning...

I never sent you an email, what do you mean?

265 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:33:40pm

re: #244 Charles

Yes, Rush Limbaugh is race-baiting again. He's getting much more open about these days, with Obama in office, just like the rest of the right wing.

OBTW. Charles.. I could link a trillion links on the Internet of the horror of Rush buying the Rams.. The backlash is beyond fierce in the Sports world...
The Man has proven himself a bigot by his own words..And everybody knows it..
Sorry Rush.. Your Idea of buying into the NFL is DOA..
/Oh that loud sound coming from NFL HQ's this morning was a mass fainting session...
You suck Rush...Epic Fail.Don't come back..ya hear?

266 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:33:47pm

re: #250 sngnsgt

Replied to your e-mail, I just received a phone call and have an appointment with a pro in the morning...

What am I missing here?

267 Randall Gross  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:34:21pm

re: #258 tradewind

Here's the nutballs already posting the vid, GB knows the demographic he's playing to, and it includes anti vaxxers.

WARNING: NUTBALL NWO Youtube channel

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

Now if you go out to youtube and do a surf of "4409" you'll probably find it at there site shortly too.

268 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:35:11pm

re: #89 Thor-Zone

I am so tired of abortion. The left wants everyone to have as many abortions as they can possibly get. The right wants no abortions under any circumstance.

Can't we just give it a rest. My head is ready to explode.

I'm on the left, and I am not pro abortion, I am however pro choice. No one in their right mind "wants" a abortion. Abortion is often a difficult and painful choice, but it should be a choice within reasonable limits.

269 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:36:01pm

re: #257 freetoken

Your mind must be well-fertilized and tilled indeed if you feel like someone's planting seeds there. Besides, how could he possibly know about skill and cunning? I thought his brain had been fried long ago.
The only idea that took root in my mind was one I had been thinking about anyway, which was that I would ask for a thimerosal-free version of the vaccine, and I was glad to hear from the doctors that there was indeed one available if you ask.

270 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:36:13pm

re: #165 amused

I think the 'save the baby humans' folks are really more about making themselves feel good about themselves rather than actually saving any baby humans. It's an easy righteous stance to take that doesn't require much thought about the consequences. I'm pro-baby, that makes me special.

OT--I had a job one winter answering phones for the March of Dimes. The first day, they gave me my script: "Good morning/afternoon, March of Dimes, saving babies together, how may I direct your call?"

This was not good. People tended to assume I was done and start speaking after "March of Dimes". Those who got the whole thing tended to feel they had to respond in some way. This ranged from the woman who said with genuine emotion "Oh, what a beautiful way to answer the phone!" to the guy who yelled "YEAH! Save those babies! Save those babies!"

I also started to come up with variations. I never used them on the phone, but I wanted to:

March of Dimes, saving babies for later.
March of Dimes, having babies with Darth Vader.
March of Dimes, through these doors pass the best damn babies in the world.

It was a looong temp gig.

271 poteen  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:36:29pm

re: #254 Killgore Trout

Using the Detroit story as proof of race baiting by Limbaugh is a stretch I think. Stormfront following on is something he has no control over.
Democrat baiting I'll admit because no rightwinger or Repub. from the center all the way to the neo-nazis has the slightest thing to do with the ethnic make up or societal problems in Detroit. The Dems own it all.

272 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:36:34pm

re: #261 Guanxi88

I've told it before, but it fits here & now so here goes.

In the town where I was raised, we were THE JEWISH FAMILY; honestly, that's how we were known.

Anyway, we used to get pamphleteers and such from this, that, and the other groups coming by to offer their information. Most were very nice about it, and they were, in general, sincerely concerned for our well-being as they understood it. You can't fault a person for wanting you should go to Heaven, after all, and they weren't pushy or rude about it, so were were always very pleasant. Iced tea, that sorta thing.

Except this one guy, who had a chip on his shoulder. We thanked him, but he wouldn't take no for an answer, and so my mother went to close the door. he put his foot in the way.

Without pausing, she calls to me "Boy, get my gun!" and, dutiful son that I was, I did.

I hear her saying to him, "Mister, if you don't move that foot, we're gonna find out if you're right or not."

And he disappeared like the dew of the morning from the grass.

Heh.

You should consider starting a site like shitmydadsays for your mom. Gotta love today's bit of wisdom:

"I wanted to see Detroit win. I've been there. It's like God took a shit on a parking lot. They deserve some good news."

273 Dainn  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:36:37pm

re: #265 HoosierHoops

Oh I don't know. Pro sports has a long and distinguished history of having racist owners.

274 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:37:06pm

re: #256 SanFranciscoZionist
If he still refuses, snare a FluMist and squirt it up his nostril during the night.
///

275 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:37:22pm

re: #168 jill e

I think it's also about the women who are in situations that they feel this is their only choice. If it's truly about choice, I'm afraid many are not really given the information they should receive.

What information would that be, and why do you feel these women are not receiving it?

276 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:37:25pm

re: #268 avanti

I'm on the left, and I am not pro abortion, I am however pro choice. No one in their right mind "wants" a abortion. Abortion is often a difficult and painful choice, but it should be a choice within reasonable limits.

Limited to me, my husband and my doctor.

277 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:37:33pm

re: #263 lastlaugh

Well, not for long.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Oh. Yes. That. I shall say that if somebody tries that with an Orthodox priest, I have good feeling that they shall wind up excommunicated.

278 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:38:07pm

This is classic -- I'm currently seeing at the top of the page my link titled "Sarah Palin's Book Ghostwritten by Associate of White Supremacist McCain" ... and right next to it in the right sidebar, a Google ad for Sarah Palin's book, from Newsmax!

Heh. Double heh.

279 sngnsgt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:38:17pm

re: #264 Walter L. Newton

I never sent you an email, what do you mean?

I'm pretty sure it was you, I received something from someone, something using the name of the site in your nic.

280 freetoken  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:38:25pm

Furthermore, during the Beck show today, both doctors are piling on the idea that one can't trust the gov't research in this area!

Tradewind, I surprised that after all the discussion about the wedge strategy here, the deconstruction this site has done on the "Teach the Controversy" strategy, the current analyses on the repeated use of the same techniques the creationists used now being applied to AGW science... that you still don't recognize the approach Beck is taking wrt H1N1.

Dear Lord... Beck's anti-vaxx guest does a full on attack of funding of vaccine research and any research funded by the gov't! Nasty scientists... getting their money to do vaxx research...

When the pro-vaxx guy that Beck has on is Fox's own medical correspondent, who chimes in with Beck about not believing the gov't sources and attacking the President's science advisor... all on a show about H1N1... and so forth and so on...

You really think that Beck's show today was an accurate and true representation of the science of vaccinations or of H1N1?

281 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:38:34pm

Even apart from religion AND biology, from a libertarian point of view, granting women the right to terminate a pregnancy also ignores the rights and interests of other parties involved. It reduces the man's decision to next to nothing.

It's to the advantage of pro-choice advocates to see the embryo/fetus as nothing more than a bunch of cells (aren't we all???). If it is a unique human, abortion allows the rights of the mother to usurp those of the child.

Then the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" goes right out the window.

As Chesterton said, "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions."

282 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:38:45pm

re: #165 amused

I think the 'save the baby humans' folks are really more about making themselves feel good about themselves rather than actually saving any baby humans. It's an easy righteous stance to take that doesn't require much thought about the consequences. I'm pro-baby, that makes me special.

It's the So-Con version of "Free Tibet". The concerned lefties who drive around with that on their Volvos need not be worried that we'll actually do anything for Tibet - we long ago decided China can do what the hell it wants there. In fact, there would be great alarm if Sec. Gates were to announce that the liberation of Tibet was beginning at 0600 hours...

283 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:39:09pm

re: #180 RealismRox

Seen this story repeated all over the right-wing blogs for a while. It says that taking birth control pills leads women to choose less masculine partners. Doesn't take a lot of imagination to see why they like the story.

Huh? I've liked willowy fey men since long before I took the Pill. I started taking it after I met my husband, who is practically a Neanderthal. (What the hell, he has a cute butt and a sterling sense of humor.)

284 Danny  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:39:18pm

re: #278 Charles

Poetic.

285 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:39:22pm

re: #267 Thanos

I don't even want to go to a cut and pasted put together vid that the antivaxx nuts have done.
You can find anything on YouTube. Check out the mashups of the POTUS they've done, and if you fell for them you'd be ready to impeach.

286 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:39:28pm

re: #250 sngnsgt

Replied to your e-mail, I just received a phone call and have an appointment with a pro in the morning...

Hey, if you think you got an email from me, and you answered a email you think was from me, you just got scammed or something. Because I don't even know who you are (off LGF) and I haven't sent anyone, anywhere an email since this morning.

Please respond.

287 poteen  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:39:38pm

re: #278 Charles

Capitalism at it's best!

288 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:39:38pm

re: #249 freetoken

Speaking of Right Wing on a Stick... I see that Sarah Palin is promoting the Fisk story about the dollar...

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

"Drill, Baby, Drill!"

Palin is in full revanchist mode... those evil greenies are destroying our dollar by not letting us drill... etc, etc, etc...

Look for her to be pitching gold in commercials shortly.

289 jill e  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:39:54pm

Gotta go!

290 UP Border Collie  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:40:01pm

re: #262 SixDegrees

FYI...the people were lined up to get forms to apply for financial assistance to help pay their mortgage payment and heating bills. (it gets mighty cold in Michigan!)

291 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:40:12pm

re: #273 Dainn

Oh I don't know. Pro sports has a long and distinguished history of having racist owners.

Years ago.. agreed...I beleive my beloved Rox Sox were the last team in baseball to hire a black player.. We are talking today..2009.
The wrath on Rush in the sports world is fierce.. Even the moderated sports blogs are having at it...Rush in 24 hours has been completely trashed on thousands of blogs...Wait till tomorrow...It's getting ugly...

292 Dainn  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:40:14pm

re: #278 Charles

Shall we all go click on it so you get paid? LOL

293 bluecheese  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:41:02pm

re: #283 SanFranciscoZionist

Huh? I've liked willowy fey men since long before I took the Pill. I started taking it after I met my husband, who is practically a Neanderthal. (What the hell, he has a cute butt and a sterling sense of humor.)

Lol. He apparently doesn't read your comments on LGF either eh...

294 sngnsgt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:41:36pm

re: #286 Walter L. Newton

It wasn't important. I just requested some info, nothing lost, nothing gained.

295 nightlight  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:42:26pm

I worked at an ER here in PA for a number of years. There is a form we had to by law fill out (by PA law) if anyone presented to the ER with an incomplete abortion. This form was sent into the State. (I can't exactly recall though which agency we sent the form to) It wasn't unusual to have a patient who had an abortion 24 to 48 hours prior to later find out it wasn't complete. The form did contain information on where the patient had the abortion, etc. I can't recall though whether we had to put a patient's name on it.

296 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:42:41pm

re: #290 UP Border Collie

FYI...the people were lined up to get forms to apply for financial assistance to help pay their mortgage payment and heating bills. (it gets mighty cold in Michigan!)

Yes, it does. It's already heating season here.

The problem, however, was the city officials who put the word out that pretty much anyone who showed up would get some dough, which was as far from the truth as the Silverdome is from Joe Louis Arena.

297 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:42:58pm

re: #187 iceweasel

And being responsible about your reproductive choices, like by using birth control and condoms, is all about having respect for one's self.

In college, I was always annoyed as hell by women who acted as though getting accidentally pregnant was some mark of authentic feminist womanhood. Uh, hell no. Better to avoid, thankyouverymuch.

Ten years now with the same fella, and good birth control practices all the way through! Except for the three weeks after the dog died. But I was insane.

298 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:43:14pm

re: #279 sngnsgt

I'm pretty sure it was you, I received something from someone, something using the name of the site in your nic.

You click on my name above, you will see my email, check your in box or what ever, make sure you understand what you are looking at.

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:43:43pm

re: #188 Ojoe

As a practical matter on this topic, the supportive approach of organizations like Catholic Charities works better. There's plenty of love to go around, actually.

Catholic Charities is good. And I don't want to stake my reputation on it, but I have heard positive stuff about Birthright.

300 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:43:55pm

re: #296 SixDegrees

FREE OBAMA MONEY!

301 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:44:34pm

re: #295 nightlight

I worked at an ER here in PA for a number of years. There is a form we had to by law fill out (by PA law) if anyone presented to the ER with an incomplete abortion. This form was sent into the State. (I can't exactly recall though which agency we sent the form to) It wasn't unusual to have a patient who had an abortion 24 to 48 hours prior to later find out it wasn't complete. The form did contain information on where the patient had the abortion, etc. I can't recall though whether we had to put a patient's name on it.

What century did this supposedly occur in?

302 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:44:34pm

re: #300 TheMatrix31

FREE OBAMA MONEY!

Drawback: The currency is Kenyan.

///

303 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:44:49pm

re: #294 sngnsgt

It wasn't important. I just requested some info, nothing lost, nothing gained.

Well, if someone is using my name or something, I need to know. Go to my web site and look at my email address, please double check for me.

304 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:45:00pm

re: #280 freetoken

There's not a heck of a lot of ' science of H1N1' here since we chased the drug industry's flu vac program right out of the country in the '70's. We now have to rely on the Europeans and Chinese (and look how well that heparin thing worked out for us... which, btw, was declared safe after one cursory inspection by the FDA).
I think you have to take this separately from the childhood vaccinations controversy, which shouldn't even be an argument.

305 Dainn  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:45:02pm

re: #291 HoosierHoops

To be honest, having anyone with a strong known political bias would be bad for a sports team. You alienate people for no good reason. The Rams record is enough to alienate people already.

Rush should consider buying the SJ Sharks (because I'm a Ducks fan).

306 nightlight  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:45:08pm

re: #301 SixDegrees

I quit that job just 2 years ago. I'm sure it is still PA law for our ERs here to report.

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:45:16pm

re: #203 sagehen

Really? Saving the precious unborn? When then were the "pro-lifers" so conspicuously silent when liberals wanted gov't subsidized pre-natal care, and conservatives opposed? Why did the "pro-lifers" have not a word of complaint when Bush slashed the WIC program?

The unborn are precious, but not with my hard-earned money.

///Bill O'Reilly is a big jerk

308 poteen  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:46:18pm

re: #296 SixDegrees

Yes, it does. It's already heating season here.

The problem, however, was the city officials who put the word out that pretty much anyone who showed up would get some dough, which was as far from the truth as the Silverdome is from Joe Louis Arena.

And I wouldn't be surprised if those 'City Officials' already had their cut.

309 Aisha bint Abi Bakr  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:46:35pm

Just when I get closer to considering voting for more Republicans, as I did for John McCain, they scare me away.

310 Racer X  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:46:58pm
The fighter jet camera that can read the time on Big Ben from the Isle of Wight

A new fighter jet camera which can read the time on Big Ben from the Isle of Wight has been hailed as a breakthrough for fighter pilots in Afghanistan.

The RAF Tornado GR4 technology - known as a Raptor - is used to zoom in on Taliban hideouts and snipers. It is one of the most advanced reconnaissance sensors in the world today.

The pod, which is just under two metres long, is fixed underneath the jets, enabling pilots overhead to see precise detail from miles in the air. It contains a dual-band sensor using both visible light and infrared, so can be used both day and night.

Sweet!

311 sngnsgt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:47:03pm

re: #303 Walter L. Newton

Yes it does use the same site, same user name...

312 erraticsphinx  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:47:14pm

If the GOP leadership was functioning at any level, the Oklahoma Republican Party should have been booted out of the RNC. They are so friggin' extreme, it's amazing.

Why is this person still in office?

Why is rampant bigotry in their platform and on the part of their elected officials condoned?

Oh, and thanks for the hat tip Charles!

313 Dainn  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:47:34pm

We need a new conservative party. One that knows what the word "conservative" means.

314 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:48:23pm

re: #299 SanFranciscoZionist

Catholic Charities is good. And I don't want to stake my reputation on it, but I have heard positive stuff about Birthright.

Catholic Charities is wonderful. I know a couple of families who were greatly helped by their programs.

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:48:46pm

re: #235 HoosierHoops

My home office is in Santa Clara ( Silly Cone Valley ) Next time I am there I would love to do lunch in the City with you...
Regards

Let me know when you'll be around. I'm actually in the East Bay now, but I can make it in--you know, we should have a Bay Area Lizard Night.

316 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:49:24pm

re: #300 TheMatrix31

FREE OBAMA MONEY!

Unfortunately, I see this sort of screw up on an almost weekly basis around here. The city is run by pathological morons who have single-handedly created the market for Velcro shoe closures. I have no idea if 0bama was even mentioned - my guess is almost certainly not, because his name has a lot of syllables in it, and city authorities are obsessive about claiming credit for themselves whenever possible - and about evading it when things go sour, which is an event that has it's own regularly scheduled TV listing.

317 allegro  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:49:40pm

re: #313 Dainn

We need a new conservative party. One that knows what the word "conservative" means.

At this point, the brand is so damaged, ya need a new word.

318 MtnCat  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:50:01pm

I believe this is just a way of testing the waters. By onerous regulations and the invasion of privacy you can make it so difficult that some women will just give up. Notice the intertwining of issues that appeals to a "broad" audience. Hopefully it can be dealt with legally. It will be interesting to see how this might transfer into your Med/Psych records being revealed in order to buy a tool (Gun).

319 Racer X  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:50:01pm

re: #303 Walter L. Newton

Last night - finance question. Jeez Walter even I remember.

320 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:50:25pm

re: #316 SixDegrees

The video shows people about getting "Obama money", from his "stash"...etc

321 sngnsgt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:50:46pm

re: #319 Racer X

Bingo!

322 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:50:48pm

re: #311 sngnsgt

Yes it does use the same site, same user name...

It's the parrot!!!

323 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:50:57pm

re: #238 Guanxi88

You sure you're not one of them shape-shifters I keep hearing about?

Just an Ameri-Mutt. Irish, Jewish, English, German, some Scots, possible Welsh connection. My husband is Irish, English, Cherokee, Creek, and his mom claims they're part black, but this may just be a Southern liberal's way of annoying her family. I choose to believe her, since that will give our kids roots on four continents.

324 tradewind  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:51:06pm

re: #309 Aisha bint Abi Bakr

If you seriously want to compare the difference in philosophy between the parties, ignore the extremes and research the results of the different approaches taken to recovery post Katrina in Democrat-run LA vs Republican-run MS and AL. I don't mean in the immediate FEMA- controvery-infused/Superdome-crisis few weeks, but after some time had passed... check the methodology used by the state governments to get their states and their people up and running again.
Then decide.

325 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:51:12pm

The criticism of the legislation seems to be based on concerns for the privacy rights of the abortion recipients. Yet little has been said about the efficacy of any privacy safeguards which are already in place or which are in the legislation. Assuming that the legal protections are in there, what reason is there to jump to the conclusion that such rights would not be protected by the government?

326 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:51:24pm

re: #317 allegro

At this point, the brand is so damaged, ya need a new word.

conservatism never changes...but people calling themselves conservatives do...there is nothing wrong with the principle/ideology...call yourself whatever you want

327 freetoken  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:51:32pm

re: #304 tradewind

One of the principal targets for the H1N1 vaccine is the child population, from age 6 months to 24 years. Besides mandatory vaccination of health care workers (as highlighted on Beck's show), the vaccination of children is a hot argument currently.

The sad thing about Beck's show, well, one of the sad things, is that the pro-vaxx doctor had to present self-contradictory arguments just to be on Beck's show. He has to keep agreeing with Beck that we shouldn't trust the government (such as the CDC... then he has to argue that we should be vaccinated. He never bothers to broach the logical hurdle that it is the gov't who is paying for both the development and deployment of the vaccine!

328 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:52:01pm

re: #305 Dainn

To be honest, having anyone with a strong known political bias would be bad for a sports team. You alienate people for no good reason. The Rams record is enough to alienate people already.

Rush should consider buying the SJ Sharks (because I'm a Ducks fan).

It's DOA...In the sports world..Well you know how bad stuff blows up on political blogs...At this moment some programmer wants to sell Charles a Java version of Flounce-a-meter?
In the sports Blogs...It makes it look like play school..Guys are throwing beer cans at their laptops..You will be called names and you will like it...
Passion... I mean Passion... Rush is dead meat...Fire your agent Rush...
Nobody in sports likes you..Nobody...Take your Sh*t some where else

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:52:03pm

re: #239 lastlaugh

"Jesus, what should we do with this woman caught in adultery?"

"Verily, I say unto thee, take down her age, education level, number of partners, years married, type of insurance, and tell them to the world, for um, statistical purposes."

You, I like. Stick around!

330 UP Border Collie  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:52:03pm

re: #296 SixDegrees

Yes, it does. It's already heating season here.

The problem, however, was the city officials who put the word out that pretty much anyone who showed up would get some dough, which was as far from the truth as the Silverdome is from Joe Louis Arena.

agreed and I stand apologetic for not being fully informed on the activities of the city officials and their part in this.
I bet my heat was on before yours!!! (Rumors have it that the "S" word is coming this weekend!)

331 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:52:09pm

re: #317 allegro

At this point, the brand is so damaged, ya need a new word.

That's right. Liberal was changed to progressive.

332 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:52:14pm

re: #308 poteen

And I wouldn't be surprised if those 'City Officials' already had their cut.

There's a long tradition of graft on the Council. One Council member - I forget which, I think it was Conyers - got busted for property tax arrears, and further investigation turned up the heartening news that she had obtained the money for the property from a Federal program aimed at low-income borrowers.

333 erraticsphinx  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:52:19pm

re: #325 Spare O'Lake

It's not the government I'm worried about here, it's the anti-choice lunatics.

334 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:53:34pm

re: #328 HoosierHoops

What if he were to help put a good product on the field? He's a Steelers fan, he knows what needs to be done.

335 allegro  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:53:40pm

re: #331 debutaunt

That's right. Liberal was changed to progressive.

Exactly.

336 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:54:37pm

re: #306 nightlight

I quit that job just 2 years ago. I'm sure it is still PA law for our ERs here to report.

I'm sure it's the law. I'm finding your assertion that "unfinished" abortions were common to be completely unbelievable. If true, there would be headlines blazing with the story across the nation. Please direct me to even one story verifying this claim, from an actual news source.

337 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:55:15pm

re: #259 debutaunt

China has a generation that's top-heavy with men.

Well, there are ways to deal with that. They could strongly encourage gay relationships. Or they could invade North Korea, and take their women. (If I was a woman in North Korea, I'd sign right up.) Or they could start adopting little girls from, uh, someplace else that has a lot of them.

Polyandrous marriages might also work. Anyone else a fan of The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.

338 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:55:19pm

re: #334 TheMatrix31

What if he were to help put a good product on the field? He's a Steelers fan, he knows what needs to be done.

Steeler fans don't buy the Rams...it ain't like that

339 Dad O' Blondes  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:55:31pm

Well --

The grandfather of this very unattractive piece of proposed legislation was approved as law in the 1970's by the Supreme Court of the United States.

It's called "Roe vs. Wade".

At the time of its passing, this "amendment" secured an approval rating in the United States of about 55% -- with the remainder of Americans opposed. And resulting divisiveness has continued, and that's why this post appears here in the first place.

In my view, the best analysis of America's ongoing abortion debate and polarization was delivered by dissenting Justice Byron White, in 1973:

I find nothing in the language or history of the Constitution to support the Court's judgment. The Court simply fashions and announces a new constitutional right for pregnant mothers and, with scarcely any reason or authority for its action, invests that right with sufficient substance to override most existing state abortion statutes. The upshot is that the people and the legislatures of the 50 States are constitutionally disentitled to weigh the relative importance of the continued existence and development of the fetus, on the one hand, against a spectrum of possible impacts on the mother, on the other hand. As an exercise of raw judicial power, the Court perhaps has authority to do what it does today; but, in my view, its judgment is an improvident and extravagant exercise of the power of judicial review that the Constitution extends to this Court.

And, we as a people, will continue to fight about this difficult topic -- until we don't. And that's the point at which the passing of a Federal law will make the most sense.

.

340 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:55:50pm

re: #333 erraticsphinx

It's not the government I'm worried about here, it's the anti-choice lunatics.

Right, but how would the right to lifers get ahold of the personal info? Are they entitled to access the info under the legislation?

341 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:56:44pm

re: #338 albusteve

I'm saying if he were part of an ownership group to buy the Rams, he could use the model he knows by following the Steelers for so long to help build the same sort of team.

342 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:56:45pm

re: #330 UP Border Collie

agreed and I stand apologetic for not being fully informed on the activities of the city officials and their part in this.
I bet my heat was on before yours!!! (Rumors have it that the "S" word is coming this weekend!)

If you're in the UP, I have no doubt you've been heating for a while now. I'm just outside Detroit - almost tropical in comparison.

343 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:57:04pm

re: #335 allegro

Exactly.


The conservatives need to find the name of an insurance co.

344 sngnsgt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:57:22pm

re: #322 debutaunt

It's the parrot!!!

Was it typing with it's pecker?

345 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:58:09pm

re: #337 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, there are ways to deal with that. They could strongly encourage gay relationships. Or they could invade North Korea, and take their women. (If I was a woman in North Korea, I'd sign right up.) Or they could start adopting little girls from, uh, someplace else that has a lot of them.

Polyandrous marriages might also work. Anyone else a fan of The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress.

The ladies will do quite nicely in China.

346 SixDegrees  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:59:02pm

I'm out. Later, all.

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:59:08pm

re: #293 bluecheese

Lol. He apparently doesn't read your comments on LGF either eh...

No, he refers to you all as 'the crazy people'. Hates politics with a passion.

348 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:59:20pm

re: #331 debutaunt

That's right. Liberal was changed to progressive.

And it only took the Democrats, like, twenty years to figure that one out. Reagan successfully equated the word liberal with tax-and-spend, anti-military urban pearl-clutchers, and two decades later they adopted a new brand name.

If that's any indication of how the right will handle things, they're in for a long, rough ride. Fox has successfully equated the word conservative with weeping, ranting, tight-jawed, screaming morons.

349 debutaunt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:59:47pm

re: #344 sngnsgt

Was it typing with it's pecker?

I averted my eyes.

350 Dainn  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:59:48pm

re: #317 allegro

At this point, the brand is so damaged, ya need a new word.

How about the "Big Government Sucks (except for all those things I like about it)" party. This is what our kickoff meeting would look like.

351 poteen  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 5:59:53pm

re: #342 SixDegrees

If you're in the UP, I have no doubt you've been heating for a while now. I'm just outside Detroit - almost tropical in comparison.

Downriver?

352 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:00:12pm

re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

Hates politics with a passion.

He's a keeper.

353 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:00:26pm

Something like this was proposed in TN a couple of years back. Every fetus would be granted a death certificate listing the parents names. We had Democratic majorities in the house and senate then but not for much longer I fear. They wouldn't let it out of committee.

It's actually a pretty complicated situation. We've got one republican who voted against his party on the seating of the speaker to keep the loons from having total control, and when I'm talking about backwoods socon TN republicans, I do think the term "loons" is warranted. Amy. This guy's going to get primaried and lose if he doesn't switch parties and will probably lose running as a democrat. . The bottom line is that laws like this are likely to be coming out of TN soon.

354 Nightlight  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:00:36pm

re: #336 SixDegrees

It wasn't a rare event. It happened on my shift perhaps every six weeks. No, I didn't see it happen daily, but it most definitely did happen and these forms were filled out. Why aren't they in the news? I have no idea. Maybe the MDs in ERs don't call the media in?

355 Aisha bint Abi Bakr  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:01:03pm

#324 Tradewind

Thanks for the suggestion but the abortion issue is an extremely important issue to me. It has kept me from voting Republican through many election cycles. I was comfortable that McCain would not touch the issue. I know that the Republican candidates must get the backing of their base in order to get the nomination. Then usually they move to the center on the issue since it has been repeatedly documented that the majority of Americans do not want abortion illegal. Also, I do believe that many of these Republican candidates in their hearts are pro-choice but are being strangled by the extremists. You saw what happened to Guliani - even the Catholic Church went after him.

356 erraticsphinx  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:01:06pm

re: #340 Spare O'Lake

It'll be on a public website I believe. And the info that is required to be released under this theocratic decree law is already nosy enough.

And do you really think they'll stop at this radical law?
Once you give theocrats a taste of power, they don't let go easily.

357 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:01:34pm

re: #341 TheMatrix31

I'm saying if he were part of an ownership group to buy the Rams, he could use the model he knows by following the Steelers for so long to help build the same sort of team.

a model is just a model...it does not produce wins, players do...I don't like the idea of multiple owners any, better to be owned by a billionaire fanatic who is obsessed with football...there is a long history of those types of owners and the Rooney family is one of them

358 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:01:46pm

re: #335 allegro

Exactly.

I am still a liberal. These progressive people scare me. I don't think they're all that progressive.

359 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:03:36pm

re: #357 albusteve

Oh, I know.

360 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:03:57pm

re: #345 debutaunt

The ladies will do quite nicely in China.

Actually, for a society trying to build its economy and reduce its population, multi-husband marriages would work a treat. My mom's always said we should try it in San Francisco. Two or three male incomes, and one reproducing female--you could actually afford a house on that.

361 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:04:28pm

re: #341 TheMatrix31

I'm saying if he were part of an ownership group to buy the Rams, he could use the model he knows by following the Steelers for so long to help build the same sort of team.

By 2pm today ESPN2 completely trashed that action...
Trust me on this...Go to any sports blog in the universe and ask what do you think of Rush buying into the NFL? Within 24 hours of the story..If you weren't wearing body Armour you had big issues...He is despised in the Sports world
Check back In 72 hours.. It's not going to be pretty for Rush

362 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:04:48pm

re: #352 Dante41

He's a keeper.

Hey, I knew that. He also introduced me to Red vs. Blue.

363 Dad O' Blondes  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:04:51pm

re: #281 jill e

Even apart from religion AND biology, from a libertarian point of view, granting women the right to terminate a pregnancy also ignores the rights and interests of other parties involved. It reduces the man's decision to next to nothing.

It's to the advantage of pro-choice advocates to see the embryo/fetus as nothing more than a bunch of cells (aren't we all???). If it is a unique human, abortion allows the rights of the mother to usurp those of the child.

Then the "right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" goes right out the window.

As Chesterton said, "Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions."

I up-dinged you and got you out of the red.

The Supreme Court was never Thomas Aquinas, and was never intended to replace him. And just because a current large majority view the weight of individuals' rights as unequal, there's no reason to back off your view.

.

364 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:06:02pm

re: #360 SanFranciscoZionist

Actually, for a society trying to build its economy and reduce its population, multi-husband marriages would work a treat. My mom's always said we should try it in San Francisco. Two or three male incomes, and one reproducing female--you could actually afford a house on that.

My pick of mates in polyandry: an auto-mechanic, a doctor, a plumber and an attorney to keep them all honest.

365 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:06:25pm

re: #361 HoosierHoops

Meh, I don't think it'll happen anyway so I don't care too much. My teams have their own ownership issues.

366 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:06:33pm

You can rest assured the GOP is obsessed with abortion/ sex Panty sniffing.

That ought to do it.

367 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:06:35pm

re: #362 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey, I knew that. He also introduced me to Red vs. Blue.

If you are a robot, and you are his wife, that makes you... a straight robot!

368 Sharmuta  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:07:14pm

Speaking of sexual suppression, here's a story from Our Friends the Saudis:

Saudi gets 5 years in jail for frank TV sex talk

A Saudi court on Wednesday convicted a man for publicly talking about sex after he bragged on a TV talk show about his exploits, sentencing him to five years in jail and 1,000 lashes, his lawyer said.

Talking about sex publicly is a taboo in ultraconservative Saudi Arabia.

Well- at least the Bible-cons haven't proposed public abortions yet.

Oh, wait.

369 allegro  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:07:24pm

re: #358 SanFranciscoZionist

I am still a liberal. These progressive people scare me. I don't think they're all that progressive.

I tend to eschew labels, seeing it all as a matter of branding that relies on an emotional following for success... or decline. If asked if I'm conservative or liberal, I have to ask "what's the topic?" Or at least I used to before the religious right loons took over the "conservative" label.

370 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:07:51pm

re: #364 MandyManners

My pick of mates in polyandry: an auto-mechanic, a doctor, a plumber and an attorney to keep them all honest.

Sounds useful.

371 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:08:19pm

re: #356 erraticsphinx

It'll be on a public website I believe. And the info that is required to be released under this theocratic decree law is already nosy enough.

And do you really think they'll stop at this radical law?
Once you give theocrats a taste of power, they don't let go easily.

You have got to be kidding. If the personal information is to be posted on a public website then that is disgusting and would be completely unacceptable IMO.

372 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:08:20pm

re: #367 Dante41

If you are a robot, and you are his wife, that makes you... a straight robot!

Yes. I am a straight robot.

373 amused  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:09:05pm

Liberal was changed to Progressive.

That would mean that Conservative gets changed to...Retarder?

That's gonna be a tough sell.

374 MandyManners  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:09:22pm

re: #368 Sharmuta

Speaking of sexual suppression, here's a story from Our Friends the Saudis:

Saudi gets 5 years in jail for frank TV sex talk


Well- at least the Bible-cons haven't proposed public abortions yet.

Oh, wait.

Hamas has forbidden women from riding on the backs of motorcycles.

375 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:09:44pm

re: #365 TheMatrix31

Meh, I don't think it'll happen anyway so I don't care too much. My teams have their own ownership issues.

Wouldn't it be cool to win the Lotto and buy any sorts team in the world as an expensive hobby?
All the teams..Who would I buy?
mmm...

376 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:10:13pm

re: #375 HoosierHoops

Wouldn't it be cool to win the Lotto and buy any sorts team in the world as an expensive hobby?
All the teams..Who would I buy?
mmm...

Swedish Bikini Team.

377 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:10:32pm

re: #360 SanFranciscoZionist

Polyandry is rather common in some Himalayan cultures. Multiple husbands for one wife is way of keeping precious, scarce and irreplaceable land in one family. It also means that marriages are made by family vote, obviously.

378 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:10:33pm

re: #375 HoosierHoops

Wouldn't it be cool to win the Lotto and buy any sorts team in the world as an expensive hobby?
All the teams..Who would I buy?
mmm...

Buy the Raiders. Their fans' pain deserves to end.

379 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:10:39pm

re: #375 HoosierHoops

I'd buy my own favorites, so I only have myself to blame.

380 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:11:11pm

Has anyone been watching what's happening in New York, where Mayor Bloomberg set up a sting operation at gun shows?

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

There's some pretty appalling stuff going down at gun shows.

381 sngnsgt  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:11:53pm

re: #376 Walter L. Newton

Are we square now? I'm fine, just wanted to know if things are right with you...?

382 erraticsphinx  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:12:02pm

re: #380 Charles

No, look, ACORN!

383 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:12:26pm

The Rush video clip came from the flouncer site. It seems ex-lizard Diana is leaving us for a more Glenn Beck/Michelle Malkin/Tea Party friendly site. She's been ill and I didn't want any of her friends here to worry about her.

384 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:12:44pm

re: #380 Charles

Has anyone been watching what's happening in New York, where Mayor Bloomberg set up a sting operation at gun shows?

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

There's some pretty appalling stuff going down at gun shows.

Why should I listen to lyin' liberal gun grabber? You know he just wants to outlaw all guns.

///

In all seriousness, the Left has said this for years. It is only now that it is becoming impossible to ignore.

385 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:12:47pm

Seriously FUCK Matt Holliday.

386 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:14:46pm

I would buy any NBA team...
Then leverage it to the hilt for a F-1 racing team..
When you turn on the Speed Channel early Sunday Morning that is the Hoopster laying on a Yacht With topless Italian women watching my car race..
Ya gotta have dreams...*wink*

387 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:15:16pm

re: #383 Killgore Trout

The Rush video clip came from the flouncer site. It seems ex-lizard Diana is leaving us for a more Glenn Beck/Michelle Malkin/Tea Party friendly site. She's been ill and I didn't want any of her friends here to worry about her.

Yes, Dianna did an email flounce earlier today.

Saw that one coming.

388 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:15:27pm

re: #385 TheMatrix31

Somebody needs his "sports don't matter a fart in a whirlwind" pill...

389 allegro  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:16:33pm

I'm thinkin' a team of Chippendale dancers might make for a quite delightful investment. :)

390 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:16:39pm

re: #364 MandyManners

My pick of mates in polyandry: an auto-mechanic, a doctor, a plumber and an attorney to keep them all honest.

Let me guess: one to change yer oil, one to supply your meds, one to fix yer plumbing, and the lawyer...to thoroughly screw you?

391 RealismRox  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:17:05pm

re: #380 Charles

Background checks are useless since there are so many loopholes to get out of them. With so many guns in circulation, it's nearly useless to try to legislate more laws. People who want guns will get them, and will get whatever type of gun they want. The Democratic Party has basically given up on gun control, they want to win red states and I think a calculated decision has been made to take that issue off the table.

392 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:17:06pm

re: #388 Cato the Elder

Somebody needs his "sports don't matter a fart in a whirlwind" pill...

What's it to you?

393 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:17:36pm

re: #388 Cato the Elder

Somebody needs his "sports don't matter a fart in a whirlwind" pill...

It's 2-2 anyway.

394 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:17:37pm

And now we have 'scrad' going through the Michelle Obama thread, dinging up all the Obama-hating comments.

395 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:17:46pm

re: #392 TheMatrix31

What's it to you?

Huh? You tryana start sumpin?

396 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:18:08pm

re: #369 allegro

I tend to eschew labels, seeing it all as a matter of branding that relies on an emotional following for success... or decline. If asked if I'm conservative or liberal, I have to ask "what's the topic?" Or at least I used to before the religious right loons took over the "conservative" label.

I am a strong social liberal who believe in strong families, a bleeding-heart toward the poor, a sentimental patriot, and an anti-war type who believes that as long as war is necessary in this world we need to have hte biggest stick of all.

I spend a lot of time being misunderstood.

Poor, poor, me.

397 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:18:28pm

re: #395 Cato the Elder

I'm venting. Sorry if it offends you that I'm pissed about a loss.

398 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:18:41pm

re: #387 Charles

Yes, Dianna did an email flounce earlier today.

Saw that one coming.

I didn't. I really didn't.

399 Cato the Elder  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:19:24pm

re: #397 TheMatrix31

I'm venting. Sorry if it offends you that I'm pissed about a loss.

Amuses, not offends. Whose loss? Not the guys' in the jerseys.

400 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:20:05pm

re: #399 Cato the Elder

**deep breath**

401 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:20:52pm

re: #383 Killgore Trout

The Rush video clip came from the flouncer site. It seems ex-lizard Diana is leaving us for a more Glenn Beck/Michelle Malkin/Tea Party friendly site. She's been ill and I didn't want any of her friends here to worry about her.

Really? Dianna's gone?

People, STOP FLOUNCING. THIS IS SILLY.

I had a drink when I came home. Goin' to my head.

402 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:20:55pm

re: #388 Cato the Elder

Somebody needs his "sports don't matter a fart in a whirlwind" pill...

it business...the NFL alone is a 9bil dollar operation, and that's alot of jobs...and a hell of lot more entertaining than Letterman, Beck, and Hollywood combined...if sports doesn't matter than neither do movies or the symphony for that matter

403 Aye Pod  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:21:04pm

re: #387 Charles

Yes, Dianna did an email flounce earlier today.

Saw that one coming.

Same here.

404 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:22:02pm

re: #397 TheMatrix31

I'm venting. Sorry if it offends you that I'm pissed about a loss.

you better where a helmet then

405 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:22:55pm

re: #400 TheMatrix31

**deep breath**

LOL
It's all good...It's just sports...Fun to talk about...
Now..Drop and give me 20!
/

406 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:23:05pm

re: #394 Charles

Oh dear...


I could not believe what I read at Fox. Honest to God, it's like some of the shit we are going over in my African American history class I am in now, especially wrt racist/threatening and demeaning imagery.

For Christ's sake I had thought we had finally gotten past that. Apparently not.

407 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:23:14pm

re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist

It's always sad to lose "friends" (even if they're only internet people) but I really don't feel bad about it. Glenn Beck and the Tea Party thing have an irresistible appeal to some people. This is what they have to do.

408 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:23:28pm

re: #405 HoosierHoops

Not fun for me when I fucking hate Los Angeles with an ungodly, white hot passion.

409 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:24:19pm

re: #406 celticdragon

Evenin', Celticdragon.

410 avanti  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:24:21pm

re: #387 Charles

Yes, Dianna did an email flounce earlier today.

Saw that one coming.

The deuce is working through its wish list, and there are some names on it I'd miss if they jump.

411 Dancing along the light of day  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:24:44pm

re: #328 HoosierHoops

Hoops, George Steinbrenner isn't loved...

412 Aye Pod  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:25:53pm

Another one bites the dust!

Youtube Video
413 albusteve  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:26:28pm

re: #407 Killgore Trout

It's always sad to lose "friends" (even if they're only internet people) but I really don't feel bad about it. Glenn Beck and the Tea Party thing have an irresistible appeal to some people. This is what they have to do.

making and breaking friendships over a TV pundit!...hahaha!...deeep!

414 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:27:41pm

re: #380 Charles

Has anyone been watching what's happening in New York, where Mayor Bloomberg set up a sting operation at gun shows?

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

There's some pretty appalling stuff going down at gun shows.

Unfortunately so...and it makes things tough for law abiding gun dealers and owners. I would still rather have the scofflaws and criminals exposed, shamed and investigated. Root out the cancer so the rest of us gun owners can be better off.

415 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:28:15pm

Dianna was nice to me when I first showed up, and when this site was far more knee-jerk rightwing than it's become. I will miss her.

'Ats all.

416 Kragar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:28:20pm

Lake Elsinore Man Blows Off Hand Making Homemade Bomb

Benjamin Kuzelka, 23, reportedly told hospital staff that he suffered a gunshot wound, but they determined that the injury was inconsistent with a gunshot wound.

Authorities were called and sent to Kuzelka's home, where they found explosives, as well as a sophisticated
marijuana-growing operation.

The explosives found inside were reportedly the highly sensitive TATP. Nazi paraphenalia was also found inside the home.

417 Digital Display  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:28:35pm

re: #411 Floral Giraffe

Hoops, George Steinbrenner isn't loved...

George didn't buy the Yankees being considered a Bigot...In fact...Last name?
Rush is a deeply hated figure in the NFL..He is considered a Bigot and rightly so...He is deeply despised in the League...It will not go well for him...

418 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:29:15pm

re: #409 Dante41

Evenin', Celticdragon.

Hey Dante! I finally found my frakking camera so I could download my Apocalypse pix last night, LOL!

419 sagehen  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:29:41pm

re: #340 Spare O'Lake

Right, but how would the right to lifers get ahold of the personal info? Are they entitled to access the info under the legislation?

How many of them work for the state agency that has "legitimate" reasons to access the data?

420 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:30:00pm

re: #380 Charles

Has anyone been watching what's happening in New York, where Mayor Bloomberg set up a sting operation at gun shows?

[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

There's some pretty appalling stuff going down at gun shows.

Notes:
-A moderately high percentage of the ammo-hoarding gun nuts I know are actually in favor of closing the gun show loophole. Why? It is the easiest source of guns for those with criminal intent and therefore a danger to 2nd Amendment rights.
- I will never forget a table at a local gunshow: It was covered with new semi-auto hanguns and bore a prominent sign declaring "There is no paper on these guns," ie, no record of sale, background check, etc.
- In the months preceding the OK City bombing, Tim McVeigh made his living as an itinerant peddler of untraceable firearms at gun shows.

421 John Neverbend  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:30:15pm

re: #408 TheMatrix31

Not fun for me when I fucking hate Los Angeles with an ungodly, white hot passion.

What did Matt Holliday do? I wasn't watching the game.

422 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:30:16pm

re: #418 celticdragon

Hey Dante! I finally found my frakking camera so I could download my Apocalypse pix last night, LOL!

Ah... was wondering about that. As I said, I want to see that epic game. Especially that Titan in action.

423 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:31:04pm

re: #416 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Lake Elsinore Man Blows Off Hand Making Homemade Bomb

LMFAO!!

Nazi wins Darwin Award!

424 Velvet Elvis  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:31:29pm

Is this supporting the troops?


House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) and House GOP Conference Chairman Mike Pence (R-Ind.) are voting against the House/Senate fiscal year 2010 defense authorization bill — because it contains hate crimes provisions designed to protect gays and lesbians.

Boehner, speaking at his weekly press conference Thursday, said the inclusion of the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act in the defense bill was "an abuse of power" by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi that sought to punish offenders for what they thought — and not what they did.

425 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:32:15pm

re: #424 Conservative Moonbat

Is this supporting the troops?

It isn't treason when they do it.

426 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:32:18pm

re: #421 John Neverbend

He misplayed a two out flyball in the bottom of the 9th, and it literally went off his nuts. The Dodgers end up winning on a walk-off base hit.

fuckers.

427 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:34:09pm

re: #422 Dante41

Ah... was wondering about that. As I said, I want to see that epic game. Especially that Titan in action.

You bet. I also have some shots of my scratchbuilt Dark Angels superheavy, an Ork Gargant, and Imperial Navy Lightening fighter. You'll have them later this evening :)

428 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:35:08pm

re: #427 celticdragon

You bet. I also have some shots of my scratchbuilt Dark Angels superheavy, an Ork Gargant, and Imperial Navy Lightening fighter. You'll have them later this evening :)

Sa-weeet. Looking forward to it.

429 bratwurst  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:35:48pm

re: #426 TheMatrix31

To abuse a quote by the late great Jack Buck:

"I don't believe what I just saw". :-(

430 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:36:04pm

re: #425 Dante41

It isn't treason when they do it.

Ouch.

I guess they hate teh Geeyyzzz more then they love the troops, eh?

431 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:36:22pm

re: #429 bratwurst

Which also describes another Dodger moment.

**puke**

432 bratwurst  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:36:57pm

re: #430 celticdragon

Ouch.

I guess they hate teh Geeyyzzz more then they love the troops, eh?


I think it is safe to say so.

433 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:37:10pm

re: #431 TheMatrix31

Which also describes another Dodger moment.

**puke**

Are they bums, or what?

434 nightlight  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:37:20pm

Interesting. 26 states require providers to report postabortion complications. Even though our hospital wasn't a provider, I guess they fell under that jurisdiction.

[Link: www.guttmacher.org...]

I know our ER reported this by law, but I do have to wonder if the clinics themselves are compliant? It seems that the abortion clinics (at least in my town) seem to insist on their web sites that if there is bleeding afterwards, to call them back. They don't exactly encourage an ER visit. Just wondering if the complications reported is truly accurate.

435 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:38:58pm

re: #433 Dante41

The prick people in the city? Yes.

436 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:39:20pm

re: #412 Jimmah

Another one bites the dust!


[Video]

Tom Petty! (damn you youtube embedding)

Youtube Video
437 Kragar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:39:21pm

re: #427 celticdragon

You bet. I also have some shots of my scratchbuilt Dark Angels superheavy, an Ork Gargant, and Imperial Navy Lightening fighter. You'll have them later this evening :)

Just finished working on my conversion for a Cadian Sly Marbo, but my camera can't get resolution to take a picture :(

438 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:41:22pm

re: #435 TheMatrix31

The prick people in the city? Yes.

Methinks that maybe you aren't that familiar with Dodger history.

/or maybe not, no sarc tag for me to tell

439 TheMatrix31  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:42:15pm

re: #438 Dante41

Familar, but I don't get the reference?

Anyway, I gotta get goin'...catch y'all later!

440 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:42:27pm

Here's a fun argument I'm having with some idiots who think that you have a duty to let yourself be executed by the state even if you are innocent of a capital crime..because:

"Overturning the justice system with regard to murder just to save my neck would at the same time create systematic injustice for thousands (even millions) of murder victims and their families."

Uh...yeah...

My response (I'm Celtic Dragon Critter):

This has to be some sort of parody. You're willing to die for the state so that actual killers get their six feet of rope??!

[Link: blog.beliefnet.com...]

441 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:43:46pm

re: #437 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Just finished working on my conversion for a Cadian Sly Marbo, but my camera can't get resolution to take a picture :(

Ah! He's behind me with a satchel charge!

442 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:44:28pm

re: #434 nightlight

Interesting. 26 states require providers to report postabortion complications. Even though our hospital wasn't a provider, I guess they fell under that jurisdiction.

[Link: www.guttmacher.org...]

I know our ER reported this by law, but I do have to wonder if the clinics themselves are compliant? It seems that the abortion clinics (at least in my town) seem to insist on their web sites that if there is bleeding afterwards, to call them back. They don't exactly encourage an ER visit. Just wondering if the complications reported is truly accurate.

Not all post-abortion bleeding requires an ER visit or counts as a complication. They encourage calling them because they can make an immediate assessment about what's going on and what kind of treatment if any is required-- whereas in the ER a woman can sit for 6 hours without being seen.

443 Killgore Trout  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:44:45pm

re: #424 Conservative Moonbat

Ugh.

444 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:45:47pm

re: #439 TheMatrix31

Familar, but I don't get the reference?

Anyway, I gotta get goin'...catch y'all later!

When they were the Brooklyn Dodgers, the were frequently called "bums".

445 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:46:10pm

re: #440 celticdragon

Here's a fun argument I'm having with some idiots who think that you have a duty to let yourself be executed by the state even if you are innocent of a capital crime..because:

"Overturning the justice system with regard to murder just to save my neck would at the same time create systematic injustice for thousands (even millions) of murder victims and their families."

Uh...yeah...



Justice Scalia posts on beliefnet?

446 Kragar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:47:27pm

re: #441 celticdragon

Ah! He's behind me with a satchel charge!

Master Sergeant Hudson takes no prisoners.

447 theheat  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:50:44pm

re: #24 JasonA

Why not force people to provide data about every other medical procedure under the sun? I'd like to know whose boobs are fake and who's au natural!

And which prominent Republicans need Viagra to get it up, and whether that's just with their wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, out-of-town hos, or casual bathroom encounters.

'Cept it's all about the women, and keeping them down: a foot on their throat and a bun in oven. Babies for Jesus. Or else.

448 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:52:21pm

re: #381 sngnsgt

Are we square now? I'm fine, just wanted to know if things are right with you...?

Yep, now I know what you were talking about.

449 sagehen  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:52:49pm

re: #281 jill e

Even apart from religion AND biology, from a libertarian point of view, granting women the right to terminate a pregnancy also ignores the rights and interests of other parties involved. It reduces the man's decision to next to nothing.

From a libertarian point of view, denying women the right to terminate a pregnancy is to eminent domain their uteruses. For the benefit of "other interested parties".

Funny how nobody wants to do anything similar with body parts that men also have. Should we all be required by law to be tested and listed with the bone marrow registry? Should people with rare and useful blood types be required to donate as often as medically possible? Maybe O-neg people should have tattoos on their foreheads, so they can be grabbed off the street whenever a nearby hospital runs low.

450 Aye Pod  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:56:23pm

re: #445 iceweasel


Justice Scalia posts on beliefnet?

Just reading this case :

The evidence at that trial consisted of nine eyewitnesses who claimed Davis shot MacPhail (Davis had been inside a nearby pool hall and was part of a crowd that came out of the hall in response to the commotion in the parking lot where Coles was beating the homeless man).

The prosecution’s star witness was none other than Coles himself. No physical evidence tied Davis to the crime—the gun was never recovered—and in the years since Davis’ conviction, seven of the eight other eyewitnesses who claimed to have seen Davis shoot MacPhail have signed sworn affidavits recanting their claims. Several now claim Coles was the killer and that they were coerced by police threats into testifying against Davis.

Eyewitness testimony is such an overrated kind of 'proof'. Scientific investigation shows it to be very shaky indeed. Terrible that people are still executed on the basis of that alone.

451 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:56:25pm

re: #23 Charles

This is one of the biggest issues that has led me to abandon the Republican Party, by the way. The obsession with dominating the lives and choices of women is repellent to me, and I can't ignore it any more.

It's one of the yard sticks I use when deciding who to vote for come election time. It counts for a lot in my book.

452 jvic  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 6:59:33pm

re: #424 Conservative Moonbat

Is this supporting the troops?
House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) and House GOP Conference Chairman Mike Pence (R-Ind.) are voting against the House/Senate fiscal year 2010 defense authorization bill — because it contains hate crimes provisions designed to protect gays and lesbians.

Boehner, speaking at his weekly press conference Thursday, said the inclusion of the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act in the defense bill was "an abuse of power" by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi that sought to punish offenders for what they thought — and not what they did.

This kind of gotcha politics--putting unrelated pieces of legislation together--does not bode well, especially during wartime and a dangerous recession.

"Is this supporting the troops?" No it isn't. Pelosi's maneuver is irresponsible.

My impression is that the Republicans did exactly the same thing when they had they majority.

A plague on both their houses.

453 Aye Pod  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:03:10pm

re: #436 iceweasel

Tom Petty! (damn you youtube embedding)

Youtube Video
454 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:03:52pm

re: #445 iceweasel


Justice Scalia posts on beliefnet?

“This court,” Scalia pointed out, “has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a court that he is ‘actually’ innocent.”

We are definitely in Alice through the looking glass territory here. Up is down, black is white and freedom is slavery.

455 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:05:47pm

re: #446 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Master Sergeant Hudson takes no prisoners.

The Dark Angels take all kinds of prisoners...and we will make them talk...

456 Kragar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:08:43pm

re: #455 celticdragon

The Dark Angels take all kinds of prisoners...and we will make them talk...

Salamanders just burn em, but I'm thinking of switching to Space Wolves

457 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:10:03pm

re: #450 Jimmah

Eyewitness testimony is such an overrated kind of 'proof'. Scientific investigation shows it to be very shaky indeed. Terrible that people are still executed on the basis of that alone.

The death penalty is suddenly under a lot of attack, Scalia's defence of executing the innocent notwithstanding.

Texas recently executed someone who was certainly innocent, Gov Rick Perry has defended the execution, and now he has just fired 3 of the people appointed to investigate it -- thereby postponing the investigation indefinitely, and covering up the stink because he's entering a bitter primary campaign.

[Link: www.mydd.com...]

458 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:10:27pm

re: #456 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Salamanders just burn em, but I'm thinking of switching to Space Wolves

The new Space Wolves Codex looks nasty as hell. I'm thinking about running them myself :)

459 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:12:37pm

re: #453 Jimmah

Let's play the flouncers and the banned off, keyboard cat!

Youtube Video
460 Kragar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:12:49pm

re: #458 celticdragon

The new Space Wolves Codex looks nasty as hell. I'm thinking about running them myself :)

I miss the previous SM codex :(

461 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:13:35pm

re: #460 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

I miss the previous SM codex :(

I just want a new Dark Eldar codex.

462 jvic  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:15:39pm

re: #454 celticdragon

We are definitely in Alice through the looking glass territory here. Up is down, black is white and freedom is slavery.

There's more: per Scalia, Congress's authority to regulate interstate commerce empowers it to forbid you to grow marijuana for your exclusive personal use. Because, you see, if you buy pot instead of growing it, the price might change by .0000001% and the stuff you buy might have crossed the state line. Thus, growing your own marijuana affects interstate commerce. QED. Send in the SWAT teams!

After I've been a more or less reliable Republican voter for 40 years, all the dissatisfaction I've been stifling has exploded into unabated loathing.

463 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:15:51pm

re: #281 jill e

If that's how you feel, then by all means, DON'T get an abortion.

It's your choice, after all.

464 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:18:20pm

re: #461 Dante41

I just want a new Dark Eldar codex.

Good luck on that. They seem to "retire" armies onto the back burner periodically, and Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar are outcast children at the moment. For some reason, GW has a fixed number of Armies for 40K and Fantasy that they actually support and make improvements to. Dark Eldar do need an update.

465 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:21:01pm

re: #462 jvic

There's more: per Scalia, Congress's authority to regulate interstate commerce empowers it to forbid you to grow marijuana for your exclusive personal use. Because, you see, if you buy pot instead of growing it, the price might change by .0000001% and the stuff you buy might have crossed the state line. Thus, growing your own marijuana affects interstate commerce. QED. Send in the SWAT teams!

After I've been a more or less reliable Republican voter for 40 years, all the dissatisfaction I've been stifling has exploded into unabated loathing.

Same here. I have been a reliable Republican since 1985. It took a lot to alienate me. I'm getting real close to that "loathing" threshold...

466 Dante41  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:21:17pm

re: #464 celticdragon

Good luck on that. They seem to "retire" armies onto the back burner periodically, and Sisters of Battle and Dark Eldar are outcast children at the moment. For some reason, GW has a fixed number of Armies for 40K and Fantasy that they actually support and make improvements to. Dark Eldar do need an update.

Oh, it gets better. They put the update on hold for "lack of interest". Seriously. People wept.

467 Kragar  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:21:48pm

re: #461 Dante41

I just want a new Dark Eldar codex.

Xenos Inquisitors here

468 doubter4444  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:24:01pm

re: #91 jaunte

I'm not a 'leftist,' but I'm pretty sure that's a wild exaggeration.

It more than that, it is a lie.

469 Mary Garth  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:29:47pm

re: #454 celticdragon

“This court,” Scalia pointed out, “has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a court that he is ‘actually’ innocent.”

We are definitely in Alice through the looking glass territory here. Up is down, black is white and freedom is slavery.

When I originally saw that quote from Scalia, I thought of my debate team days long ago where we took it as a challenge to be able to argue ANY position on any issue, no matter how crazy or extreme or morally reprehensible. One of the approaches in that kind of argument-as-sport is to be extremely literal. Scalia's quote above is probably literally correct, in that there exists no Supreme Court decision that explicitly forbids the execution of the innocent. That MIGHT have been all he meant by that. I would like to see the context in which that comment was made. Was Scalia really that cavalier about the state executing an innocent person?

470 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:32:48pm

re: #469 Mary Garth

That MIGHT have been all he meant by that. I would like to see the context in which that comment was made. Was Scalia really that cavalier about the state executing an innocent person?


He made it in the context of a SCOTUS opinion, and yes, he was that cavalier.

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

471 Mary Garth  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:41:57pm

re: #470 iceweasel

He made it in the context of a SCOTUS opinion, and yes, he was that cavalier.

[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

Thanks for the link. By context, I meant something like the next paragraph in his opinion. You could imagine a judge writing a comment similar to Scalia's and then arguing, in effect, ''...but we SHOULD forbid it now". But given what I'm now reading in that article by Campos, that was definitely not the case here.

472 celticdragon  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 7:58:40pm

re: #466 Dante41

Oh, it gets better. They put the update on hold for "lack of interest". Seriously. People wept.

Yeah. Great game, but GW really sucks...

473 The Left  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 8:08:28pm

re: #471 Mary Garth

Thanks for the link. By context, I meant something like the next paragraph in his opinion. You could imagine a judge writing a comment similar to Scalia's and then arguing, in effect, ''...but we SHOULD forbid it now". But given what I'm now reading in that article by Campos, that was definitely not the case here.

Yeah, he was writing a dissenting opinion-- just madness.

474 funky chicken  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 8:37:18pm

But they'll turn around and say that they are for small government and bitch and moan about pretty much every other government program up to and including the FDA and the USDA and, strangely enough, medicaid.

475 hanoch  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 8:55:09pm

re: #23 Charles

I can't fathom this reaction. What is the alternative? The democrats want to arrogate as much power as they possibly can to the government, diminishing individual liberty in the process. Whether it be on the issues of regulating commercial activity, taxation, regulating health care, etc., republicans are far more likely to come down in favor of allowing individuals to live their lives as they choose. Moreover, the democrats are generally weaker when it comes to national security, which is obviously crucial to the preservation of individual liberty.

It is true that more republicans than democrats want to restrict abortions. But the abortion debate raises a unique individual liberty issue because people must attempt to balance the interests of the expectant mother and unborn child.

It is not fair to say that socially conservative republicans seek to dominate the lives of women; their concern is the preservation of life. In fact, a heck of a lot of them happen to be women.

476 mph  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 9:27:30pm

They can call themselves conservatives for all I care --- but they are merely neanderthals.

477 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 9:32:06pm

re: #469 Mary Garth

When I originally saw that quote from Scalia, I thought of my debate team days long ago where we took it as a challenge to be able to argue ANY position on any issue, no matter how crazy or extreme or morally reprehensible. One of the approaches in that kind of argument-as-sport is to be extremely literal. Scalia's quote above is probably literally correct, in that there exists no Supreme Court decision that explicitly forbids the execution of the innocent. That MIGHT have been all he meant by that. I would like to see the context in which that comment was made. Was Scalia really that cavalier about the state executing an innocent person?

No, Scalia doesn't care if they are innocent or not, since "innocence" is not something which can ever be established with absolute certainty. He didn't say they were innocent, only that after they had been found guilty by one court, they convinced another court they were innocent, which isn't the same thing as actually being innocent.

478 martinsmithy  Thu, Oct 8, 2009 10:37:23pm

re: #134 Thanos

So do you think it's ok to publish information that would allow people to ID said woman so they can shun her?

No, I wouldn't do that. The publication part of the bill is the most odious, and is unacceptable for ANY reason.

479 spoosmith  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 6:41:23am

re: #475 hanoch

I can't fathom this reaction. What is the alternative? The democrats want to arrogate as much power as they possibly can to the government, diminishing individual liberty in the process. Whether it be on the issues of regulating commercial activity, taxation, regulating health care, etc., republicans are far more likely to come down in favor of allowing individuals to live their lives as they choose. Moreover, the democrats are generally weaker when it comes to national security, which is obviously crucial to the preservation of individual liberty.

It is true that more republicans than democrats want to restrict abortions. But the abortion debate raises a unique individual liberty issue because people must attempt to balance the interests of the expectant mother and unborn child.

It is not fair to say that socially conservative republicans seek to dominate the lives of women; their concern is the preservation of life. In fact, a heck of a lot of them happen to be women.

Wow. Just wow. Are you forgetting Terri Schiavo? Conscience clauses for pharmacists? Gay marriage? Anti-contraception? The GOP has become THE party of abrogating personal decisions. The GOP talks a great game about wanting smaller government and individual liberties but when was there a GOP government that actually followed through?

480 Yashmak  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 7:24:01am

re: #19 trendsurfer

You can rest assured the GOP is obsessed with abortion. Put them in power and there will be vote after vote enacting hoop after hoop for women to leap through to get an abortion. My former congresswomen, Tillie Fowler RIP (R and "prolife"), complained over the Gingrich lead congress "enough is enough" when they had 100 votes lined up regarding abortion issues. It's never ending.

While I agree that this legislation is intrusive, and should be struck down, it should be noted that during the last three Republican administrations, it did not (to my knowledge) become measurably more difficult to obtain an abortion.

It's common for Republican candidates to pander to the religious base by stating a position against abortion, but it's much less common that they actually attempt to get legislation passed related to the topic once in office.

This Oklahoma bit of ugliness is the worst example I've heard of it in decades.

481 StillAMarine  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 7:25:17am

This is a law that is clearly at odds with HIPAA (The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996), which is federal . The Office for Civil Rights enforces the HIPAA Privacy Rule, which protects the privacy of individually identifiable health information, and the confidentiality provisions of the Patient Safety Rule, which protect identifiable information being used to analyze patient safety events and improve patient safety.
It will never fly.

Crap like this will lose the Republican chances in 2010 and 2012.

482 hanoch  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 8:48:51am

re: #479 spoosmith

I recognize that conservative republicans enact laws that restrict liberty (though, as an aside, I don't agree that the Schiavo case and gay marriage are good examples--physician assisted suicide is a much better one). Conservatives are not libertarians. My point, however, was, as between democrats and republicans, which party is more protective of individual liberties on the whole? While I have plenty of gripes with them, I believe, overall, it is the republicans.

483 Socrates died for your sins  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 3:29:06pm

re: #2 Cannadian Club Akbar

I work as an RN, and this definitely would be a hippa violation.

484 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 7:57:47pm
485 David  Fri, Oct 9, 2009 8:50:56pm

Religiously motivated nanny state? Well, you don't have to be religious to be against abortion. There's even an organization for pro-life atheists (www.godlessprolifers.org). Any system of morality worthy of the name places restrictions on the deliberate taking of human life. We can all agree that it is legitimate for the State to restrict the taking of human life. We can all agree that infanticide is reprehensible. Where people disagree is the point at which "abortion" becomes "infanticide". Science has established that from conception, a foetus is a genetically unique human being, distinct from each of its parents. For many, the human rights of the child ought to trump those of the mother. It's not a matter of controlling what a woman does to her body, but preventing her from destroying someone else's. Even those who describe themselves as "pro choice" give lip-service to decreasing the number of abortions actually carried out, recognising that there is something not quite "morally neutral" about the termination of a human life. As John Donne said "No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.". Why then, is it legitimate to deter infanticide but not legitimate to deter abortion?

The problem with Roe v Wade, aside from its dodgy reasoning, is that it prevents governments from legislating for the common good as they see it.

Yes, there are radicals in the pro-life movement, but the pro-life position is not in and of itself, inherently radical. It's logic is compelling to any culture that values human life - something the pro-choice movement implicitly recognises in euphamistically framing the debate in terms of "choice" rather that "the right to abort" - people are comfortable with "choice" - less so with the action that is actually being carried out in the abortion clinic. Many people have an instinctive revulsion to the act of "terminating a pregnancy" - so even pro-choicers feel compelled to say that they want less, rather than more abortions - a sure sign that the pro-life instinct is held by people of all faiths, and of none.

486 mili  Sat, Oct 10, 2009 12:54:53pm
Don't worry..In a few years all our records are promised to be on-line..
Finally some hacker will let us know if Megan Fox's b00bs are real...

Megan Fox has boobs???


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