The Proudly Ignorant Party

Opinion • Views: 2,792

Senior editor for The Atlantic Ta-Nehisi Coates puts it all in a nice neat package: Proud Of Being Ignorant.

A lot of you have e-mailed me to note that Virginia governor Bob McDonnell has decided to honor  those who fought to preserve, and extend, white supremacy. I don’t really have much to say. The GOP is, effectively, the party of willfully unlettered Utopians. It is the party of choice for those who believe global warming is a hoax, that humans roamed the earth with dinosaurs, and that homosexuals should work harder at not being gay. 

That the party of unadulterated quackery also believes that Birth Of A Nation is more true to the Civil War than Battle Cry Of Freedom, is to be expected. Ignorance does not respect boundaries. It is, at times, qualified and those who know more, often struggle to say more. But people who believe that the Census is actually a covert attempt to put Americans in concentration camps, are also likely to believe that slavery was incidental to the Civil War. 

This is who they are—the proud and ignorant. If you believe that if we still had segregation we wouldn’t “have had all these problems,” this is the movement for you. If you believe that your president is a Muslim sleeper agent, this is the movement for you. If you honor a flag raised explicitly to destroy this country then this is the movement for you. If you flirt with secession, even now, then this movement is for you. If you are a “Real American” with no demonstrable interest in “Real America” then, by God, this movement of alchemists and creationists, of anti-science and hair tonic, is for you.

Well said. The GOP is the party of creationists and climate change deniers; nearly every major GOP politician is anti-science, because they know they won’t get any votes if they don’t toe the right wing line. And increasingly, the barely suppressed racism inherent in this atavistic world view is bubbling to the surface, as we see today in Virginia.

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380 comments
1 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 12:52:50pm

I really didn’t think the GOP would go downhill this fast.

I thought that Palin was an aberration, not a harbinger.

I was wrong.

2 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 12:53:46pm

IN other words, the GOP has become the party of arrogant ignorant and deeply frightened people, who feel that their false sense of entitlement to has been encroached upon by the successes of others in a world that has left them behind.

3 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 12:55:26pm

re: #1 Obdicut

I really didn’t think the GOP would go downhill this fast.

I thought that Palin was an aberration, not a harbinger.

I was wrong.

Palin is an abortion and a harpy.

4 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 12:55:43pm

argh. It’s just too early in the day to start drinking too.

5 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 12:56:42pm

re: #3 Cato the Elder

Uh— yeah, I don’t really think the word ‘abortion’ needs to be brought into this. Not to mention that it makes no sense.

I’d rather focus on her ‘real American’ aspect than her personality. Her politics.

6 bosforus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 12:56:42pm

Allow me to check my voter registration card… phew, it still says independent.

7 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 12:56:50pm

re: #3 Cato the Elder

Palin is trying to set herself up as a kingmaker in the party, she has a small but hard-core following that will cast their votes anywhere she asks them to.

8 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 12:57:19pm

re: #4 Thanos

argh. It’s just too early in the day to start drinking too.

Well, it’s 5 o’clock somewhere…

9 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 12:59:37pm

The modern republican party is the dark under-belly of this country. The powers that run it harnessed the energy of the total filth that comprises the lowest of the low in this country and cynically exploited it. From the southern strategy to the rise of the bigotted and hate-filled rhetoric of the religious right to the intollerance and racism of the so-called “patriot movement” and militia types as well as the last vestiges of the Aryan nation and KKK they brought this on themselves.

It reminds me of these guys:

Youtube Video
10 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:00:11pm

My mother-in-law’s father was interred when she was 4. I often wonder if this earlier childhood trauma developed a fearful world view, and it is very fearful. President George W. Bush could wage as many wars as possible to kill the terrorists, it was all fine with her. Republicans are tough and strong because of their righteous convictions, to her.
She is genuinely fearful of President Alabama’s administration. Really, just as much as I was under Bush.

11 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:00:39pm

The BBC’s rendition of Rupert Murdoch, from “House of Cards”.

Tête-à-tête between Francis Urquhart (the would-be PM, modelled on Richard III) and Ben Landless (dead-on stand-in for Murdoch).

Youtube Video
12 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:01:21pm

re: #10 prairiefire

ha, pimf Obama. i definitely did not look at the spell check selection.

13 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:01:49pm

re: #7 ralphieboy

Palin is trying to set herself up as a kingmaker in the party, she has a small but hard-core following that will cast their votes anywhere she asks them to.

Bullshit. Murdoch is trying to set her up as Queen.

And he may just do it.

14 iceweasel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:01:50pm

Wow, I loved this Coates piece— really glad it has a thread here.

People who are unfamiliar with him should check out his column in the Atlantic regularly— he’s very good imo.

15 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:02:39pm

Victims Family - Proud to be Ignorant (Lyrics only ‘cuz I can’t find a link to any of their music)

I’m proud to be ignorant
I never listen to a word that you say
Because if I did I’d have to learn something new and then
uh …
that might make me feel uncomfortable.
I destroy what I can’t understand
It makes me feel so much bigger.
Because everything I know is just engraved in stone and
exactly
like I told you in the first place.
The people who don’t think or believe like me
should all be gathered up on a desert island
so that I can drop a bomb on them
but wait a minute … not me!
I’m proud to be ignorant

16 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:03:24pm

re: #10 prairiefire

My mother-in-law’s father was interred when she was 4. I often wonder if this earlier childhood trauma developed a fearful world view, and it is very fearful. President George W. Bush could wage as many wars as possible to kill the terrorists, it was all fine with her. Republicans are tough and strong because of their righteous convictions, to her.
She is genuinely fearful of President Alabama’s administration. Really, just as much as I was under Bush.

Spellcheck?

17 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:03:57pm

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

Obama was seecritly born in Alabama! I knew it!

18 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:05:25pm

re: #17 Obdicut

Obama was seecritly born in Alabama! I knew it!

There was someone on one of my Orthodox websites who was insisting that Katrina had struck because the Bush administration had done something in Israel he didn’t like, and Condi Rice was from Louisiana.

Pointing out that Condi was raised in Alabama did no good. He still found it very significant.

19 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:06:50pm

re: #16 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, from the list of available replacement selections. I knew I had Obama wrong, plus another one. It’s faster for me to click the check spelling button than actuallly tyyyypppppppiiinnnggg.
But, you have to make the correct choice from the suggested words list, or it is all for naught.

20 MrSilverDragon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:06:59pm

Well folks, time to go home and nurse my arms back to health after lifting several 200lbs pieces of switching equipment. Those bruises are gonna be big and colorful! I think a few gin & tonics will do the trick. I hope y’all have a good night!

21 Summer Seale  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:07:15pm

This is so well said. It really is the party of ignorance right now.

But it wasn’t so a few years ago. It’s the party of ignorance because the ignorant have driven away or silenced all the thoughtful people with good ideas and counterpoints in a real debate.

That is why it is the party of ignorance now.

22 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:08:19pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

I was told that it was legalized gambling.

23 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:08:50pm

WTF?

My daughter just called. The flight that she and my son & his family were on had to land in Allentown PA because they ran out of fuel.

This is a Delta flight between two major airports.

24 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:09:09pm

re: #13 Cato the Elder


I think she has scuppered enough credibility to shut herself out of the presidency, but she still knows that she dan throw her weight around.

If you will excuse the analogy (and take it rather loosely, please!) she could well wind up what Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow Coalition were to the Democrats. not strong enough to be a national candidate, but strong enough to be a force within the party.

But Sarah will still keep her scepter and robes of state at hand should the need or opportunity arise…

/

25 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:11:41pm

re: #24 ralphieboy

re: #17 Obdicut

Ironic, I know.

26 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:13:16pm

re: #3 Cato the Elder

Drool, baby, drool.

27 sffilk  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:13:25pm

I’ll put it succinctly: Sarah Palin is irrelevant! The Republican Party is going to make itself irrelevant unless it gets rids of those who are sending it to its doom.

28 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:13:57pm

re: #23 Alouette

WTF?

My daughter just called. The flight that she and my son & his family were on had to land in Allentown PA because they ran out of fuel.

This is a Delta flight between two major airports.

WTF, indeed!

I’ve never heard of such a thing.

Are there mafia guys in the airport of origin siphoning fuel from the damn planes?

And as an aside, did your grrrl get that PC malware thing sorted?

29 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:14:20pm

re: #23 Alouette

WTF?

My daughter just called. The flight that she and my son & his family were on had to land in Allentown PA because they ran out of fuel.

This is a Delta flight between two major airports.

Was one of them in the metro NY area?

30 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:15:01pm

FOX News goes with its own Daisy ad

31 Skeetghazi  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:16:16pm

re: #27 sffilk

I’ll put it succinctly: Sarah Palin is irrelevant! The Republican Party is going to make itself irrelevant unless it gets rids of those who are sending it to its doom.

Speaking of doom…

Check out this clip from Megyn Kelly and Fox

In a teaser for a segment on Fox News today, anchor Megyn Kelly wondered aloud about the new nuclear START treaty President Obama is about to sign with Russia.

“Now critics are asking, will the new deal leave the U.S. defenseless until it’s too late? Coming up, next hour,” Kelly said.

Fox then cut to footage of a nuclear bomb exploding into a mushroom cloud before going to commercial.

Cue mushroom cloud

32 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:17:31pm

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

IN other words, the GOP has become the party of arrogant ignorant and deeply frightened people, who feel that their false sense of entitlement to has been encroached upon by the successes of others in a world that has left them behind.

Well if you talk to the Dems, we’re mostly under the believe that the GOP always controlled the party. They were just hidden in the closet or in the attic above, pulling the strings. The puppet master of the Right.

Now it’s just open season. As long as no one gets physically injured, I think it’s going to work out in our favor by exposing them in the long run.

33 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:18:10pm

re: #31 Stanley Sea

Cue mushroom cloud

But remember: Fox is just a news channel like any other. Nothing unusual here. No, sirree.

34 iceweasel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:19:28pm

More Republican stupidity: the GOP continues its war on women:— Digby nails it:

‘How can you spend hundreds of millions of dollars on contraceptives? How does that stimulate the economy?’ House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) said of the provision, according to Reuters.”

Boehner is such a slimy little worm. The original brouhaha was about the fact that family planning didn’t “create jobs” which was the intent of the stimulus package. It became a big joke (“hehehe, he said stimulate…”) and so the Democrats removed it from the bill to shut up the stupid Republicans.

Now they’re implying that it was removed because of moral objections on the part of “America” which doesn’t want the government paying for birth control and “the abortion industry,” which I’m assuming is Planned Parenthood. (That was, of course, ridiculous because contraceptives are a product like anything else which requires humans to manufacture and distribute them.)

Boehner concludes:

Now we learn that Washington Democrats’ government takeover of health care dramatically expands taxpayer funding of contraceptives and the abortion industry. First Democrats removed this controversial provision from the ‘stimulus’ and then they hid it in their government takeover of health care, hoping the American people wouldn’t notice.


If anyone ever wondered whether the right is sincere in its concern for fetuses as opposed to the sexual behavior of women, this would seem to spell it out pretty clearly. Boehner is calling provisions for birth control “controversial” and the only thing he can mean by this in this context is that he thinks Americans believe women shouldn’t have sex if they don’t want to bear children. (“Just keep your legs closed, girl, and you won’t have a problem.”)Otherwise, it would be “uncontroversial” that a health care bill would provide for family planning and those who care about preventing abortion would be supportive since it would result in fewer unplanned pregnancies. (But then we know that isn’t what the religion industrial complex is all about, don’t we?)

35 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:20:56pm

I just checked my post at True/Slant on Bob McDonnell, and sure enough — there’s someone over there too claiming that black soldiers fought for the Confederate Army.

36 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:21:21pm

re: #31 Stanley Sea

Cue mushroom cloud

Rapture ready.

I bet that led to a lot of Onychophagia.

37 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:22:20pm

several thoughts here …

climate change is not a hoax and I do not believe that EVERY right of center person believes it is.

there are still many fine people in the “right of center” crowd who are not wild eyed knuckledraggers, although lately on this board we are made to feel like we are by some folks.

as a “right of center” Independent, I am troubled by the influence of the birchers in the Republican party, and I feel most Americans of all political persuasions feel the same way. that is why the GOP needs a modern day William F. Buckley to step up and purge this filth. I’ve been told by some on this board, including Charles that I’m dreaming. But it will happen eventually. The questions are “when” and “who?”

I think the GOP is currently a rudderless ship, but I feel that will eventually change. But if the extremists on the right get someone like ron paul as the nominee in 2012, he will be absolutely trounced by Obama. And maybe then the level heads in the GOP will reclaim the intellectual initiative.

Having said all that, there are also problems with the left of center agenda that I will not stop bringing up. My kids are going to get fucked by this spending orgy and they deserve better than that. The current leftist agenda includes a lot of “live for today” types who want to “fix” everything right now, with no feel for the future unintended consequences caused by this mad dash into the land of change and hope.

It troubles and saddens me that people on the left say I’m a right winger and people on the right would call me a RINO. I am neither. I’m just someone who tries to see both sides and calls it as I see it. And what I see right now are mostly unpleasant choices.

38 avanti  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:24:20pm

Interesting take on wealth redistribution, in part:

“Allow me let me summarize my frustrations with how conservatives like Goldberg (not all of conservatives, of course) talk about taxes, redistribution, the size of government, it’s effectiveness and efficiency:

1. Dollar for dollar, America offers the most effective and efficient government on the planet, doing so for about 20 cents on the dollar nationally, 28 cents if you include state and local taxes. If you ask a conservative to name a country that provides as many quality services for less, or more and better services for the same price, they can’t name one. If they do, encourage them to start packing their bags. Sure, they could save a lot of money living in Mexico—if they don’t count all the bribes they’ll have to pay to educate their kids and protect themselves from possible violence. Bottom line is we’re simply not as big as conservatives would have us believe. This doesn’t mean we shouldn’t seek efficiencies, govern more effectively within budget constraints, or try to eliminate fraud and abuse. But American government is pretty clean and fairly lean.

2. American government is redistributive, but not to the degree to which boogeyman conservatives would have us believe. Again, look at the two charts above. We’re clean and lean, but if you believe in sharing the wealth, comparatively we’re also pretty mean.

3. When it comes to deficits and fiscal responsibility, conservatives tend to focus on the spending and not the taxation side. If you’re raising less than you’re spending, you can either raise more, spend less, or some combination of both. But conservatives invariably turn the conversation to how big government is as a spender, rather than how small it is as a taxer. And frankly, too many Americans of all ideological stripes simply want a free lunch. We know this because when you give them access to policies at the ballot, they vote for guaranteed spending and restrictions on taxes. (See California, the state with the single WORST debt burden in the country.)

4. It’s just a myth that all this American “socialism” will only constrain our growth, turning us into one of those laggard western European nanny states. There is way too much to cover here, so I’ll just point to Jon Chait’s recent takedown in the New Republic of conservative Jim Manzi’s supposed case-closed case for why America’s smaller government produces higher growth rates.”

taxes.

39 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:24:28pm

re: #23 Alouette

WTF?

My daughter just called. The flight that she and my son & his family were on had to land in Allentown PA because they ran out of fuel.

This is a Delta flight between two major airports.

Wow, what a screw-up! That’s almost as stupid as when I ran out of gas on my way to write a final exam.

40 Skeetghazi  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:24:46pm

Fuckin A.

Man arrested for threatening Pelosi by FBI

[Link: tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

41 JHW  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:24:56pm

Needed Myth; The Creation of Black Confederate Soldiers

42 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:27:42pm

re: #35 Charles

I just checked my post at True/Slant on Bob McDonnell, and sure enough — there’s someone over there too claiming that black soldiers fought for the Confederate Army.

maybe they were slaves who were forced to wear the confederate uniform by their owners …

43 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:29:18pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

There was someone on one of my Orthodox websites who was insisting that Katrina had struck because the Bush administration had done something in Israel he didn’t like, and Condi Rice was from Louisiana.

Pointing out that Condi was raised in Alabama did no good. He still found it very significant.

I cannot relate to anyone who thinks that weather patterns watch the news :D

44 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:29:47pm

gonna take a nice walk before dinner … later all …

45 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:30:25pm

re: #29 garhighway

Was one of them in the metro NY area?

They were on a flight to LGA

46 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:30:25pm

re: #40 Stanley Sea

Fuckin A.

Man arrested for threatening Pelosi by FBI

[Link: tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com…]

The crazy’s picking up steam. The 2010 election is gonna be a maniac slot machine for these people.

47 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:30:33pm

re: #40 Stanley Sea

Surely this was a concerned citizen who merely was suggesting that if Pelosi supported health care then she might be struck down by the wrath of god or something.

48 darthstar  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:30:54pm

re: #30 Dreggas

FOX News goes with its own Daisy ad

She looks so skeered in that picture! Someone get her a Long Island Ice Tea stat!…then send her to the green room.

49 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:31:54pm

re: #34 iceweasel

More Republican stupidity: the GOP continues its war on women:— Digby nails it:

Have I mentioned lately just how much I despise these Neanderthals?

50 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:32:05pm

re: #28 Cato the Elder


And as an aside, did your grrrl get that PC malware thing sorted?

I got that PC malware thing sorted out while she was enjoying herself at the mall.

51 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:32:18pm

re: #35 Charles

I just checked my post at True/Slant on Bob McDonnell, and sure enough — there’s someone over there too claiming that black soldiers fought for the Confederate Army.

Truth has such a liberal bias these days…

52 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:32:25pm

re: #48 darthstar

I wonder if theyd’ve had a similar slant at Ronald Reagan signing the SALT agreements: will it leave America defenseless?

53 darthstar  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:32:47pm

re: #23 Alouette

WTF?

My daughter just called. The flight that she and my son & his family were on had to land in Allentown PA because they ran out of fuel.

This is a Delta flight between two major airports.

This happens more frequently than you imagine. I think they like refuelling in more midwestern airports because there’s a lower cost for jet fuel.

54 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:32:53pm

re: #50 Alouette

I got that PC malware thing sorted out while she was enjoying herself at the mall.

You really should have made her do it you know?

55 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:33:12pm

re: #45 Alouette

They were on a flight to LGA

Figures. Flight delays into the NYC airports can cause this. Between cutting it close on fuel and the frequent congestion at LGA, JFK and EWR, this can happen. It happened to a co-worker of mine last week.

Delays into JFK are going to nasty of the next few months: a main runway is shut down for resurfacing. Even on nice days, evening flights will be delayed.

56 darthstar  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:33:47pm

re: #52 ralphieboy

I wonder if theyd’ve had a similar slant at Ronald Reagan signing the SALT agreements: will it leave America defenseless?

Reagan wouldn’t survive a Republican primary in today’s environment.

57 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:34:01pm

re: #50 Alouette

I got that PC malware thing sorted out while she was enjoying herself at the mall.

I hope she gives you an iPad on Mother’s Day!

58 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:34:09pm

re: #34 iceweasel

While everyone likes to pile on Pelosi day after day, week after week, for being the OHNOES HOUSE LEADAR!!!, the reason I don’t like Boehner is because of the actual things he says and advocates for. Like this.

If birth control is controversial, I wonder if plastics, internal combustion engines and the idea of a magic blinking box full of tiny people that entertains you and gives you news, is that controversial as well? :D

“Abortion industry”. What a buttplug.

59 Escaped Hillbilly  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:34:56pm

re: #37 _RememberTonyC I agree. I am also an Independent with some Conservative leanings. I believe the Conservatives will eventually find new leadership and move away from the crazies. But they may need to abandon the Republican party to do it at this point. When even John McCain teams up with Sarah Palin to speak to a Tea Party crowd…oh well. The pendulum swings. The problem to me is, when the nuts are the other party, no one is acting as a true counterbalance to the party in power. They are, however unintentionally, bringing about the power vacuum that is going to allow many of the things the fear to be passed into law. Irony tastes yucky.

60 iceweasel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:35:06pm

re: #49 LudwigVanQuixote

Have I mentioned lately just how much I despise these Neanderthals?

Well, I never get tired of hearing that!

Some more wackiness about Hutaree, btw:

Report: Hutaree Created Map Of Country With Locations Named After Themselves

The ex-fiance of the leader of the Hutaree Christian militia tells the AP that the group harbored delusions of grandeur to the point that they created “a big map on a room in their house of their own country and their own names of their countries and cities and stuff.”

Andrea Harsh, who was engaged to alleged Hutaree leader David Stone, described the map as “very extensive.”

More details continue to dribble out about the often troubled lives of the alleged members of the Christian militia, who are charged in Michigan for an alleged plot to kill police.

61 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:35:15pm

re: #32 marjoriemoon

Well if you talk to the Dems, we’re mostly under the believe that the GOP always controlled the party. They were just hidden in the closet or in the attic above, pulling the strings. The puppet master of the Right.

Now it’s just open season. As long as no one gets physically injured, I think it’s going to work out in our favor by exposing them in the long run.

I can only hope so.

But that really does require the Dems getting their act together and growing a pair.

I can only wonder what would have happened in the Va governors race, if the Dems had decided to actually fight it, and they had made Virginians aware of just how much of a tea bag whacko he really was when he tried to pass himself off (successfully) as a moderate.

62 pingjockey  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:35:25pm

I swear, I am a RWR conservative and these asshats have wrecked what was IMO supposed to be small gov’t, lower taxes, good on defense, support allies, etc.. party into something I do not recognize. I have 2 options for nat’l elections, hold my nose or not vote. Local elections here we haven’t had any of this lunacy..yet.

63 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:35:57pm

re: #50 Alouette

I got that PC malware thing sorted out while she was enjoying herself at the mall.

/oldbitchygeekmode

When *I* was a kid, nobody helped me with my computer problems! I was ripping out motherboards, installing hard drives, reinstalling windows, bugtesting Config.sys autoexec files to get my mouse and VESA drivers working, all by my lonesome! :D

64 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:36:03pm

Oh and Ice, I found the papers relevant to the other obedience experiment on the thread downstairs.

65 darthstar  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:36:15pm

re: #34 iceweasel

I love it when assfucks like Boehner use the phrase ‘abortion industry’…it’s such an over the top statement that it makes them look like the fools they are.

66 iceweasel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:36:19pm

re: #58 WindUpBird

While everyone likes to pile on Pelosi day after day, week after week, for being the OHNOES HOUSE LEADAR!!!, the reason I don’t like Boehner is because of the actual things he says and advocates for. Like this.

If birth control is controversial, I wonder if plastics, internal combustion engines and the idea of a magic blinking box full of tiny people that entertains you and gives you news, is that controversial as well? :D

“Abortion industry”. What a buttplug.

Birth control is ‘controversial’ because the idea that women should have control over their sexual and reproductive lives is ‘controversial’.

Period. So to speak. ;)

67 allegro  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:36:26pm

re: #58 WindUpBird

If birth control is controversial…

Birth control is only a symbol. The controversy is over women having autonomy over their bodies and *gasp* sexuality. That whole ownership and submission thingy.

68 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:36:32pm

re: #60 iceweasel

Onward redneck conquerers!

69 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:37:06pm

re: #54 LudwigVanQuixote

You really should have made her do it you know?

Regedit, young lady! Learn to use it!

70 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:37:22pm

re: #67 allegro

Birth control is only a symbol. The controversy is over women having autonomy over their bodies and *gasp* sexuality. That whole ownership and submission thingy.

Oh, I know. :(

71 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:37:33pm

Oh noes! It teh eeville Juice!

Israeli police arrest 6 in organ trafficking ring.

72 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:38:15pm

re: #59 Escaped Hillbilly

I agree. I am also an Independent with some Conservative leanings. I believe the Conservatives will eventually find new leadership and move away from the crazies. But they may need to abandon the Republican party to do it at this point. When even John McCain teams up with Sarah Palin to speak to a Tea Party crowd…oh well. The pendulum swings. The problem to me is, when the nuts are the other party, no one is acting as a true counterbalance to the party in power. They are, however unintentionally, bringing about the power vacuum that is going to allow many of the things the fear to be passed into law. Irony tastes yucky.

I don’t necessarily think you need to abandon the GOP, but you certainly must take it back. So long as its muses are Rush and Glenn, it will wallow in the mire.

The GOP needs its “Sister Souljah moment”.

73 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:38:19pm

re: #66 iceweasel

Birth control is ‘controversial’ because the idea that women should have control over their sexual and reproductive lives is ‘controversial’.

Period. So to speak. ;)

Well at least for nice girls.

Don’t you realize that only bad girls want to have sex?

///

Really, I hate the GOP.

74 JHW  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:38:42pm

Meanwhile, in the UK, the cotton workers chose to starve rather than support slavery, even indirectly. They damn sure weren’t in any doubts as to the causes of the war.

The cotton workers, whose increasing poverty was bringing them to the point of starvation, declared their whole-hearted support of the Union’s fight against slavery . So much so that Abraham Lincon sent them a fulsome letter of thanks, parts of which are carved on a commemorative monument in Lincoln Square, Manchester

Read more at Suite101: The Lancashire Cotton Famine: The Liverpool Connection with the Confederate Army [Link: georgian-victorian-britain.suite101.com…]


The Lancashire Cotton Famine

And from Wiki
Lancashire Cotton Famine

75 darthstar  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:38:52pm

re: #71 Alouette

Oh noes! It teh eeville Juice!

Israeli police arrest 6 in organ trafficking ring.

Farming kidneys from people without paying for them doesn’t sound very kosher to me.

76 iceweasel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:39:00pm

re: #64 LudwigVanQuixote

Oh and Ice, I found the papers relevant to the other obedience experiment on the thread downstairs.

Cool, thanks! Bookmarked for later.

re: #65 darthstar

I love it when assfucks like Boehner use the phrase ‘abortion industry’…it’s such an over the top statement that it makes them look like the fools they are.

Yeah, exactly. Abortion ‘industry’. Oh Noes, it’s special interest lobbyists for Vagina-Americans! FeAr TEh Vagino-Gyno-sexual-industrial complex! Fear it, I say!

77 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:39:15pm

re: #70 WindUpBird


If we expect our teenagers to assume responsibility for their actions thier bodies and their sexuality, we need to give them the information they need.

78 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:39:40pm

re: #72 garhighway

I don’t necessarily think you need to abandon the GOP, but you certainly must take it back. So long as its muses are Rush and Glenn, it will wallow in the mire.

The GOP needs its “Sister Souljah moment”.

Both voraciously support reasonable republicans, and voraciously oppose and trash the lunatics in the party.

If I were a GOP voter, that’s what I’d do.

79 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:40:54pm

re: #71 Alouette

Oh noes! It teh eeville Juice!

Israeli police arrest 6 in organ trafficking ring.

The Jews involved in this - organizing it at least - are evil. I am always put in the greatest pain when I see a story like this.

80 pingjockey  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:41:05pm

re: #78 WindUpBird
That’s what I’ve been doing! Me and Dad got into a terriblr row over the tea party people.

81 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:41:10pm

re: #77 ralphieboy

If we expect our teenagers to assume responsibility for their actions thier bodies and their sexuality, we need to give them the information they need.

I am 100% for sex ed EARLY. Demystify sex, demystify the body, give kids all the information, BEFORE they’re hitting puberty.

82 darthstar  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:41:25pm

re: #76 iceweasel

Yeah, exactly. Abortion ‘industry’. Oh Noes, it’s special interest lobbyists for Vagina-Americans! FeAr TEh Vagino-Gyno-sexual-industrial complex! Fear it, I say!

Boehner’s afraid of Big Vagina?
/

83 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:41:37pm

re: #67 allegro

Birth control is only a symbol. The controversy is over women having autonomy over their bodies and *gasp* sexuality. That whole ownership and submission thingy.

You really think so? I think the opposition to birth control, like abortion, is simply pandering by cynical pols to the religious whackos for crass partisan political advantage.

84 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:42:26pm

re: #80 pingjockey

That’s what I’ve been doing! Me and Dad got into a terriblr row over the tea party people.

Oh man, that has to be rough :/ I sympathise, I have friends whose parents are practically estranged from them over politics. My parents are both boring middle of the road moderate Dems, all our political disagreements are like minute policy things.

85 allegro  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:42:31pm

re: #83 Spare O’Lake

You really think so? I think the opposition to birth control, like abortion, is simply pandering by cynical pols to the religious whackos for crass partisan political advantage.

Why do you think it’s red meat for those whackos?

86 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:42:36pm

re: #75 darthstar

Farming kidneys from people without paying for them doesn’t sound very kosher to me.

It isn’t. The donor were often poor religious Jews who thought they were saving lives. Either that or they were just simply poor and desperate, only to be conned out of an organ.

Those who sold and those who bought are truly evil.

I am sickened to my stomach, and honestly, cases like this make me question the Israeli decision to ban capital punishment..

And yes, I want the guilty hanged for this.

87 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:42:40pm

re: #82 darthstar

Boehner’s afraid of Big Vagina?
/

Hey I’d be afraid of that too, at least if it had teeth…

88 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:42:45pm

Ed Morrisey gets the award for being the first major right wing blogger to discuss Confederate Appreciation Month.


Newly-elected Republican Governor Bob McDonnell reversed eight years of refusals by Democrats to proclaim an official Confederate History Month in the state, which has restarted a debate over slavery, racism, and the kind of associations to states rights issues that the GOP hardly needs at the moment while fighting a federal health-care mandate:
…
As a history buff myself, I agree that it’s important to study history, but that doesn’t require a Confederacy Appreciation Month, which is what this sounds like. McDonnell could have broadened the perspective to a Civil War History Month, which would have allowed for all of the issues in the nation’s only armed rebellion to be studied. This approach seems needlessly provocative and almost guaranteed to create problems for Republicans in Virginia and across the country. It might have a short term effect of strengthening McDonnell’s attachment to his base, which didn’t appear to be threatened at all in the first place.

What do you think? Take the poll:

Readers are divided pretty equally on the issue. Lots of support for “White Culture” in the comments.

89 Silvergirl  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:42:52pm

re: #37 _RememberTonyC

several thoughts here …

climate change is not a hoax and I do not believe that EVERY right of center person believes it is.

there are still many fine people in the “right of center” crowd who are not wild eyed knuckledraggers, although lately on this board we are made to feel like we are by some folks.

as a “right of center” Independent, I am troubled by the influence of the birchers in the Republican party, and I feel most Americans of all political persuasions feel the same way. that is why the GOP needs a modern day William F. Buckley to step up and purge this filth. I’ve been told by some on this board, including Charles that I’m dreaming. But it will happen eventually. The questions are “when” and “who?”

I think the GOP is currently a rudderless ship, but I feel that will eventually change. But if the extremists on the right get someone like ron paul as the nominee in 2012, he will be absolutely trounced by Obama. And maybe then the level heads in the GOP will reclaim the intellectual initiative.

Having said all that, there are also problems with the left of center agenda that I will not stop bringing up. My kids are going to get fucked by this spending orgy and they deserve better than that. The current leftist agenda includes a lot of “live for today” types who want to “fix” everything right now, with no feel for the future unintended consequences caused by this mad dash into the land of change and hope.

It troubles and saddens me that people on the left say I’m a right winger and people on the right would call me a RINO. I am neither. I’m just someone who tries to see both sides and calls it as I see it. And what I see right now are mostly unpleasant choices.

Sorry RTC you’re stamped, branded, rejected. Even if you’re an independent, don’t ever think of voting for a Republican (I think the term “Repukes” was used here a little while back) because living for today and dashing into that land of change and hope is the one true path. You veer off and you’re an unadulterated homophobic quack with a confederate flag tacked up to your trailer wall. So sad for you and me. We’ve been named. Hang your head and move on.

90 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:42:55pm

re: #82 darthstar

Boehner’s afraid of Big Vagina?
/

ahahahahahahahahahaha

THE VAGINA LOBBY GOT TO YOU TOO?!?!?!

91 iceweasel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:42:57pm

re: #82 darthstar

Boehner’s afraid of Big Vagina?
/

Probably. They cringe at the minge.

92 ryannon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:43:04pm

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

IN other words, the GOP has become the party of arrogant ignorant and deeply frightened people, who feel that their false sense of entitlement to has been encroached upon by the successes of others in a world that has left them behind.

The unfair terms of the Treaty of Versailles has contributed greatly to this situation.

93 pingjockey  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:43:16pm

Roe was signed over, what? 30 years ago? Why do these fools keep bringing it up? I personally know 2 women who had abortions, one was an oops and one was life threatening. I will never ever ask them about it. IT WAS THEIR BUSINESS!

94 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:44:19pm

re: #91 iceweasel

Probably. They cringe at the minge.

And here I come from a school of thought that says that real men are vagina friendly…

95 pingjockey  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:44:39pm

re: #84 WindUpBird
Well that makes dinner dull! RWR and Goldwater have to be spining!

96 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:44:50pm

I just finished watching last night’s Lost. Another good one. I hated the Desmond story lines in the past because they just seemed overly sappy but it’s starting to make sense. This episode also had a lot of Charlie in it so that’s always a good thing.

97 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:44:55pm

re: #92 ryannon

The unfair terms of the Treaty of Versailles has contributed greatly to this situation.

All they’re looking for is some living space they can call there own, is that too much to ask?

98 Escaped Hillbilly  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:45:10pm

re: #53 darthstar

This happens more frequently than you imagine. I think they like refuelling in more midwestern airports because there’s a lower cost for jet fuel.

Ok, I wasn’t going to say anything but if we’re going to continue whipping this dead horse let me point out that calculations for fuel requirements are not exactly x miles times y gal per mile. Headwinds, flight path, weight of passengers and crew plus baggage, changes in altitude, and speed all play into the equation. Since all of these variables cannot be known with certitude at the start of the flight, crews use a best guess plus scenario. The answer isn’t to just add more fuel because fuel is also weight. There is a point where more fuel does not equal longer flight. Furthermore, “out of fuel” might merely have been the reason given to passengers. Could have been malfunctioning fuel flow indicator, loss of power, rerouting, or any number of other things. Yes they made a mistake. But they are not necessarily idiots and flaying them without knowing exactly what happened is pointless.

99 iceweasel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:45:14pm

re: #94 LudwigVanQuixote

And here I come from a school of thought that says that real men are vagina friendly…

Well, vaginas are friendly to them. :)

100 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:45:25pm

re: #71 Alouette

Oh noes! It teh eeville Juice!

Israeli police arrest 6 in organ trafficking ring.

A shandah!
A shame!

101 SpaceJesus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:46:57pm

*uses stories about record snowfall to question global warming*

*puts up story about record high heat in NYC today*

*is silent about connection between record heat and global warming*

*is drudge*

102 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:47:11pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey gets the award for being the first major right wing blogger to discuss Confederate Appreciation Month.

Readers are divided pretty equally on the issue. Lots of support for “White Culture” in the comments.

[Golf clap]

Voted! Looks like the the noes are ahead slightly.

103 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:47:18pm

re: #77 ralphieboy

If we expect our teenagers to assume responsibility for their actions thier bodies and their sexuality, we need to give them the information they need.

The only information they need to know is that sex is dirty and evil, that it is only allowable in marriage (between a man and a woman of course!) strictly for the purposes of procreation, and even then it must be preformed in a pitch dark room under a shroud of shame.
/

104 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:47:32pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

I agree 100% with a “Civil War History Month”. We can honor the courage of individuals without implying (in today’s polarized environment) anything else.

105 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:47:35pm

re: #100 Spare O’Lake

A shandah!
A shame!

Why is anyone posting this crap? Why give the haters any ammo? I saw it on Jpost this morning.

106 SpaceJesus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:49:49pm

re: #104 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I agree 100% with a “Civil War History Month”. We can honor the courage of individuals without implying (in today’s polarized environment) anything else.

which individuals would those be again

107 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:51:01pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey gets the award for being the first major right wing blogger to discuss Confederate Appreciation Month.

Readers are divided pretty equally on the issue. Lots of support for “White Culture” in the comments.

Yes, and half of Hot Air readers see nothing wrong it.

108 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:51:18pm

re: #104 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I agree 100% with a “Civil War History Month”. We can honor the courage of individuals without implying (in today’s polarized environment) anything else.

Hell in a borderish state like Virginia there would even be soliders there who fought for the Union, I know that my home state (Maryland) had people who fought both ways, there’s even a famous statue at Antietam (I think) of a wounded confederate solider and a wounded union solider helping one another….

109 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:51:51pm

Good grief. Some of those Hot Air comments are unfreakingbelievable.

110 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:51:58pm

re: #93 pingjockey

Roe was signed over, what? 30 years ago? Why do these fools keep bringing it up?

It won’t be repealed, but the topic is so divisive that it makes for great partisan rhetoric.

111 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:52:56pm

re: #106 SpaceJesus

which individuals would those be again

Learn about the Corn Field at Antietam.

112 SpaceJesus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:53:14pm

re: #109 Charles

Good grief. Some of those Hot Air comments are unfreakingbelievable.

take a look at free republic

[Link: www.freerepublic.com…]

113 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:53:50pm

re: #85 allegro

Why do you think it’s red meat for those whackos?

Because the extremists actually believe this fire and brimstone stuff. Trying to figure out a religious whacko is a mug’s game.

114 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:53:56pm

re: #99 iceweasel

Well, vaginas are friendly to them. :)

No two ways…. They are certainly my favorite physical thing in the world.

115 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:54:07pm

re: #108 jamesfirecat

Hell in a borderish state like Virginia there would even be soliders there who fought for the Union, I know that my home state (Maryland) had people who fought both ways, there’s even a famous statue at Antietam (I think) of a wounded confederate solider and a wounded union solider helping one another…

You might find this interesting:

Happy Confederate History Month, people!

Virginia Gov. Bob McDonnell’s proclamation declaring April Confederate History Month notes that in April 1861, “the people of Virginia joined the Confederate States of America.” I guess it depends on what you mean by “the people.”

The 1860 Census counted about 1.6 million people in Virginia. Of these, 58,000 or so were “free persons of color,” and roughly 433,000 were enslaved African Americans. I think it’s safe to say that this 31 percent of “the people” did not support a rebellion spearheaded by slaveholders. In fact, thousands of black Virginians flocked to Union military bases at the first opportunity.

And support for secession was hardly unanimous among the white 69 percent of the state. A state convention delayed and debated for months in early 1861 before approving a secession ordinance rather than honor President Lincoln’s request for troops following the firing on Fort Sumter. But even after that, about 22 percent of eligible white males voted “no” on a secession referendum. The vote took place in May 1861, when rebel sentiment was at a high and voting for the Union was both practically futile and personally risky.

Anti-secession sentiment was concentrated in present-day West Virginia, which was still a part of the Old Dominion in 1861. Most whites in this part of the state did not own slaves or depend on the slave-based economy. Accordingly, they had little interest in supporting a pro-slavery rebellion.

To be sure, some white West Virginians backed the rebellion, and the vast majority of white “eastern” Virginians were, indeed, in favor of it after Fort Sumter. I suppose you could argue that this means the “people” — at least the white people — of what is now Virginia wanted to secede.

But if you take the 15 percent of the total population who voted “no” in the secession referendum as a rough estimate of statewide pro-Union sentiment among whites, and add to it the 31 percent of Virginians who were black, you get 46 percent — i.e., nearly half of “the people” within the boundaries of the state as they existed at the time.

McDonnell’s proclamation has been called an affront to the state’s African-American population, past and present, which it is. But it’s also an insult to the not-insignificant minority of white Virginians who remained loyal to their country and their flag.

116 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:54:23pm

re: #109 Charles

Good grief. Some of those Hot Air comments are unfreakingbelievable.

Stop being coy. Give us a sample.

117 allegro  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:54:42pm

re: #110 Slumbering Behemoth

It won’t be repealed, but the topic is so divisive that it makes for great partisan rhetoric.

It may not be repealed but it is more than just rhetoric. With so many states putting onerous burdens on women and providers, along with the literal murder of doctors, it’s becoming more and more difficult to obtain this health care for women. It may be legal, but if it’s unavailable or unaccessible, what’s the difference?

118 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:55:31pm

Totally OT:

For anyone who saw the original SizeDoesn’tMatter advertisement, the campaign has come out with a new clip.

The SizeDoesn’tMatter campaign is an advocacy campaign in Canada run by the Canadian Federation of Jewish Students. The goal is to raise awareness about the country to the general college crowd. That “80%-90%” that pays no attention to the conflict and really knows nothing.

When the original video came out, there was quite a heated backlash against it because of the (quite overt) innuendo — comparing Israel to an undersized phallus. This video has toned it down quite a bit, and I think the other clip was taken down.

The campaign began the week before Israel “Apartheid” (two) Week(s) began, and was meant to peak curiosity about Israel before pro-Israel students ran their “You Can’t Play With The Truth” campaign that sought to counter the IAW propaganda.

Anyway…. lol, that’s a lot of exposition. I really just wanted to let you all know about the new video.

Vimeo
119 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:55:42pm

re: #104 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I agree 100% with a “Civil War History Month”. We can honor the courage of individuals without implying (in today’s polarized environment) anything else.

I don’t at all. Never at all. (Angry rant to follow).

This is all because Black people have a History Month. God forbid we should have some kind of awareness about the history of a minority group of people who gave their lives for this country in a way that whites never did. We have a gazillion veteran style holidays. We don’t need a freaking “Let’s honor the White People who Fought the Civil War Month”. Ack.

The Civil War was an UGLY time in this history. You want to honor those people, you have Veterans day and Memorial Day.

120 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:55:53pm

re: #112 SpaceJesus

Ah geezus:

I’m 54 y.o.. Up until a couple of years ago I always felt I would have been fighting for the Union during the Civil War. Now I am convinced I would jump borders and fight for Dixie. Hmmmm, gee whiz, I wounder what might have caused that shift in my psyche?

A black man was elected President. That changed his psyche.

What an asshole.

As for the lack of ass-kissing and mea culpas about slavery in the proclamation, good for the governor. There’ve been enough apologies over the last fifty years, enough freebies, enough excuses, enough breaks, enough money , enough screeches about “racism!” and enough special treatment for a bunch of losers that just becomes a waste of resources. I’m sick of it and it’s long past time that somebody takes a stand and quits sucking up to these parasites and hustlers.

Not much more needs to be said.

121 iceweasel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:56:37pm

re: #117 allegro

It may not be repealed but it is more than just rhetoric. With so many states putting onerous burdens on women and providers, along with the literal murder of doctors, it’s becoming more and more difficult to obtain this health care for women. It may be legal, but if it’s unavailable or unaccessible, what’s the difference?

That’s why the strategies focus on making it difficult to obtain. That was the entire reason for the Stupak bullshit during HCR. That’s the reasoning behind laws like OK’s ultrasound provision, requiring all women seeking abortions to have one regardless of medical need. And so on, ad infiniteum.

122 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:56:45pm

re: #117 allegro

Good point!

123 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:57:30pm

re: #105 marjoriemoon

Why is anyone posting this crap? Why give the haters any ammo? I saw it on Jpost this morning.

There is no way to live up to the double standard.
Truth is truth and evil knows no ethnic or religious boundaries.
Better to publish it and move on.

124 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:58:03pm

re: #115 Gus 802

“Yes and there were union men
who wept with joyful in tears
when they saw the honored flag
they had not seen in years
Hardly could they be restrained
From breaking for in cheers!”

125 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:58:25pm

re: #98 Escaped Hillbilly

Ok, I wasn’t going to say anything but if we’re going to continue whipping this dead horse let me point out that calculations for fuel requirements are not exactly x miles times y gal per mile. Headwinds, flight path, weight of passengers and crew plus baggage, changes in altitude, and speed all play into the equation. Since all of these variables cannot be known with certitude at the start of the flight, crews use a best guess plus scenario. The answer isn’t to just add more fuel because fuel is also weight. There is a point where more fuel does not equal longer flight. Furthermore, “out of fuel” might merely have been the reason given to passengers. Could have been malfunctioning fuel flow indicator, loss of power, rerouting, or any number of other things. Yes they made a mistake. But they are not necessarily idiots and flaying them without knowing exactly what happened is pointless.

I don’t know what horse was getting whipped, but defending the airline by suggesting that they were lying to their passengers probably isn’t helping them.

And I missed anyone calling them idiots.

Everyone understands that safety is the first priority. That doesn’t mean we can’t, as passengers, be annoyed that ATC or whomever can’t manage the air traffic into and out of NYC better.

For example, I like the idea of a fee structure at the three big NY airports that discourages little planes in favor of bigger ones, so that the number of takeoffs can be lowered without cutting into capacity. As a frequent flier, I understand I would have a little less choice, but I would make that trade if it got me greater schedule certainty.

But the chronic overbooking of the takeoff and landing slots at the three airports is just bullshit. And it leads to landings in Jamestown for fuel.

126 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:58:52pm

re: #60 iceweasel

The more I hear about the Hutarees, the more they remind me of games my friends and I used to play in, like, the fifth grade. We made up our own words, and were queens of imaginary countries we drew maps of.

However, we were only allowed to touch guns with our dads there keeping a close eye on us, which may be the key difference.

127 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:59:04pm

re: #118 Joo-LiZ

Totally OT:

For anyone who saw the original SizeDoesn’tMatter advertisement, the campaign has come out with a new clip.

The SizeDoesn’tMatter campaign is an advocacy campaign in Canada run by the Canadian Federation of Jewish Students. The goal is to raise awareness about the country to the general college crowd. That “80%-90%” that pays no attention to the conflict and really knows nothing.

When the original video came out, there was quite a heated backlash against it because of the (quite overt) innuendo — comparing Israel to an undersized phallus. This video has toned it down quite a bit, and I think the other clip was taken down.

The campaign began the week before Israel “Apartheid” (two) Week(s) began, and was meant to peak curiosity about Israel before pro-Israel students ran their “You Can’t Play With The Truth” campaign that sought to counter the IAW propaganda.

Anyway… lol, that’s a lot of exposition. I really just wanted to let you all know about the new video.


[Video]

Love it!

128 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 1:59:04pm

re: #120 Obdicut

Ah geezus:

Not much more needs to be said.

A few here from the Freepers: The Dog That Hasn’t Barked (Yet).

129 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:00:34pm

Later.

130 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:00:40pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

The more I hear about the Hutarees, the more they remind me of games my friends and I used to play in, like, the fifth grade. We made up our own words, and were queens of imaginary countries we drew maps of.

However, we were only allowed to touch guns with our dads there keeping a close eye on us, which may be the key difference.

You really just hit it on the head.

Here is the theme song for the “games.”

Youtube Video
131 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:00:58pm

re: #120 Obdicut

Ah geezus:

Not much more needs to be said.

The parasite is a friend of Atlas, don’t you be a friend of the parasite!


The parasite hates three things, free markets, free will and free men!

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:01:01pm

re: #72 garhighway

I don’t necessarily think you need to abandon the GOP, but you certainly must take it back. So long as its muses are Rush and Glenn, it will wallow in the mire.

The GOP needs its “Sister Souljah moment”.

Oh, I’m sure almost everyone in the GOP would be willing to denounce Sister Souljah.

/

133 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:01:03pm

re: #126 SanFranciscoZionist

It reminds me of the two Australian girls that created a world together and then killed one of the girl’s mothers.

There was a film of it. I can’t remember it now.

134 kirkspencer  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:01:31pm

The sad thing is that Boehner isn’t alone. Consider this article from Wisconsin. A County DA sent school district officers a letter saying if they follow the law it could lead to them and their teachers being charged for criminal delinquency against minors.

The law? Sex ed classes must tell about condoms and contraceptives.

135 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:02:48pm

re: #133 Obdicut

It reminds me of the two Australian girls that created a world together and then killed one of the girl’s mothers.

There was a film of it. I can’t remember it now.

Heavenly Creatures and the Simpsons did a parody of it.

“Equalia, where everyone is equal and we’re in charge!”

136 recusancy  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:03:28pm

re: #14 iceweasel

Wow, I loved this Coates piece— really glad it has a thread here.

People who are unfamiliar with him should check out his column in the Atlantic regularly— he’s very good imo.

Ta-Nehisi is the shit. Except when he goes into nerd-mode and starts talking about gaming and comics.

137 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:03:47pm

On the issue of Confederate History Month, David Frum fails:

It’s hard to imagine a more anodyne remembrance of the Confederacy than this issued by McDonnell. It does contain the eyebrow-raising language that the Confederates “fought for their homes and communities and Commonwealth.” None of those things were in danger in 1861. Beyond that, however, it’s a bland invocation of the importance of studying history.

138 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:03:49pm

re: #81 WindUpBird

I am 100% for sex ed EARLY. Demystify sex, demystify the body, give kids all the information, BEFORE they’re hitting puberty.

Hell yeah.

And, for those listening at home, who may be fainting, this does NOT mean not instilling moral or religious values about sex, or not telling kids they should wait to be sexually active. It’s about giving them clear, real knowledge of how their bodies work, and the social significance of that.

A child who has that knowledge can make moral decisions about his or her body, without falling for crap from predators or misinformed classmates.

139 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:04:00pm

re: #127 LudwigVanQuixote

Then it was worth the post! =)

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:04:31pm

re: #83 Spare O’Lake

You really think so? I think the opposition to birth control, like abortion, is simply pandering by cynical pols to the religious whackos for crass partisan political advantage.

But what religious whackos? I don’t get it. Birth control is absolutely mainstream in the United States.

141 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:04:51pm

re: #139 Joo-LiZ

Then it was worth the post! =)

Besides the girl in it was smoking :)

142 Achilles Tang  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:05:22pm

I read all this stuff here, at LGF, some time ago.

143 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:07:03pm

I feel sorry for anyone who actually proudly claims themselves as Republican.

144 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:07:08pm

re: #141 LudwigVanQuixote

Besides the girl in it was smoking :)

Agreed! =P

145 pingjockey  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:07:24pm

See ya later. Goddamn oncologist appt. Damn vampires want more blood!

146 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:07:40pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

But what religious whackos? I don’t get it. Birth control is absolutely mainstream in the United States.

The ability of some people to deny the reality around them when it comes to certain issues never ceases to amaze me…

The same way these people think that if we outlaw abortion people won’t get them, it would be nieve and cute if it didn’t lead to women dieing in alleys with bloodstained coat hangers in their hands….

147 cgn38navy  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:08:10pm

PURE AND UTTER BS!
Virginia is continuing a long history of being at the forefront of the debate. From the founding fathers to our current Senators, Govenor, and Congressmen, Virginians of both parties have led this country and will continue to do so. LGF is getting irrational and starting to lose credibility by posting such obvious crap.

148 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:08:22pm

re: #135 jamesfirecat

Right! Thanks, I keep thinking it’s “Beautiful Creatures”, which is a very different movie.

Anyway, I do think that many people these days are unable to cope with the real challenges in the world— the rise of chaotic, anti-American elements in US politics, AGW, the problems of terrorism, poverty, and dictators— and construct a much simpler version of reality to inhabit.

The insistence that problems can all be solved at the state, town, or whatever level, or that private industry will be forced by the market to address all problems, without the need for foresight or planning— to me, these can be part of an inability to cope with the sheer scale that the world has these days.

The world has not shrunk. The world, for Westerners, anyway, has gotten bigger, and more complicated.

149 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:08:48pm

re: #147 cgn38navy

PURE AND UTTER BS!
Virginia is continuing a long history of being at the forefront of the debate. From the founding fathers to our current Senators, Govenor, and Congressmen, Virginians of both parties have led this country and will continue to do so. LGF is getting irrational and starting to lose credibility by posting such obvious crap.

Reality can be teh sux :(

150 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:08:57pm

A photo of the hail that just accumulated on my back deck:[Link: www.flickr.com…]

151 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:10:04pm

Enslaved Blacks were relied on disproportionately to support he confederate war machine but not as soldiers. They were tasked as teamsters, launderers, cooks and other camp support. They were also responsible for making up the difference for homefront laborers who were off to fight the war. None of them volunteered for the duties they were assigned. They were still slaves.

Towards the end of the war the idea of black conscripts being given their freedom for service was floated and an unsuccessful attempt to raise two units was made.

If you want a story about heroic black men in the Civil war look into the Mass. 54th portrayed in the movie Glory.

152 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:10:10pm

re: #147 cgn38navy

Can you explain what a black Virginian is supposed to do during this month?

153 Joo-LiZ  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:10:11pm

re: #143 Walter L. Newton

I feel sorry for anyone who actually proudly claims themselves as Republican.

I’m proud to call myself conservative?

The problem I’ve always had talking domestic politics (foreign policy is more my forte) is that I have my set of views, but the problem is in finding any party (US or Canadian) that matches those views well.

I really don’t like the way Democrats run things or their priorities, but I find it hard to convince myself the Republicans would be any better.

154 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:10:46pm

re: #152 Obdicut

Can you explain what a black Virginian is supposed to do during this month?

Be thankful the good guys won.

155 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:11:35pm

re: #88 Killgore Trout

Ed Morrisey gets the award for being the first major right wing blogger to discuss Confederate Appreciation Month.
Readers are divided pretty equally on the issue. Lots of support for “White Culture” in the comments.

Well, goddamn it, I’m in favor of white culture myself. Let’s talk about the white culture of the Quakers, who denounced slavery from the earliest days of American settlement. Let’s talk about the white culture of Benjamin Franklin, who founded an abolition society. Let’s talk about the white culture of John, Sam and Abigail Adams, who spoke out against slavery their whole lives.

Let’s talk about the white men who went to war to free the slaves. Let’s talk about the white culture of William Wilberforce, and Bronson Alcott, and Benjamin Rush, Thomas Paine, Abby Kelley Foster and Susan B. Anthony.

Or, we can choose to define ‘white culture’ as the culture of slaveholding, but I’m not really in favor of that.

156 charles_martel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:11:50pm

I am a conservative. But I think the GOP is a bunch of crazy assholes. But every time I go to DailyKos, my blood boils. Where is a party for me?

157 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:11:51pm

re: #152 Obdicut

Can you explain what a black Virginian is supposed to do during this month?

/Move to another state, isn’t it clear that we can do without ‘their kind’?

158 cgn38navy  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:12:08pm

re: #152 Obdicut

The same thing as a white? or Asian? or Eskimo? or French?

159 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:12:39pm

re: #147 cgn38navy

PURE AND UTTER BS!
Virginia is continuing a long history of being at the forefront of the debate. From the founding fathers to our current Senators, Govenor, and Congressmen, Virginians of both parties have led this country and will continue to do so. LGF is getting irrational and starting to lose credibility by posting such obvious crap.

Then explain to me how the governor of Virginia is currently revising and distorting history to honor something evil?

We have been very clear here that not all white Virginians were secessionists and that even today, there are decent and moral Virginians who are opposed to this shit.

But what is your excuse to claim outrage?

Is it that you don’t like the truth? Is it that your ostrich hole is starting to let light it?

160 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:13:00pm

re: #147 cgn38navy

Maybe next they can past a resolution denying the Holocaust, so they can be at the ‘forefront of the debate’.

What debate, exactly, does this resolution help to pursue?

161 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:13:07pm

re: #156 charles_martel

I am a conservative. But I think the GOP is a bunch of crazy assholes. But every time I go to DailyKos, my blood boils. Where is a party for me?

I hear there’s a great one over at Steve’s place but you have to bring your own beer.

162 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:13:19pm

re: #152 Obdicut

Can you explain what a black Virginian is supposed to do during this month?

He is supposed to scream bloody murder and destroy any Dixie flag he sees in exactly the same way I would tear down a swastika.

163 avanti  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:13:40pm

Bristol Palin’s new PSA ad on teen pregnancy.

Youtube Video
164 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:13:45pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

But knowledge leads to informed decisions, and a greater realm of choices. We can’t have that. We can’t allow this nation’s children to have that.
/

165 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:14:06pm

re: #158 cgn38navy

The same thing as a white? or Asian? or Eskimo? or French?

And that would be what?

According to the declaration, it calls upon them to recognize the sacrifices of the soldiers, citizens, and leaders of the Confederacy in Virginia.

Can you explain what sacrifices those people made for the benefit of the black people in Virginia during the war?

166 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:14:29pm

re: #147 cgn38navy

PURE AND UTTER BS!
Virginia is continuing a long history of being at the forefront of the debate. From the founding fathers to our current Senators, Govenor, and Congressmen, Virginians of both parties have led this country and will continue to do so. LGF is getting irrational and starting to lose credibility by posting such obvious crap.

What debate anyways? Virgina was defeated along with the rest of the CSA and the slaves were freed, the union restored. Not much debatable there.

167 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:14:36pm

re: #156 charles_martel

I am a conservative. But I think the GOP is a bunch of crazy assholes. But every time I go to DailyKos, my blood boils. Where is a party for me?

Modern Whig Party!

//

168 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:14:43pm

re: #140 SanFranciscoZionist

But what religious whackos? I don’t get it. Birth control is absolutely mainstream in the United States.

Just because it’s mainstream doesn’t mean there’s quite a few people who’d love to see it outlawed. Remember about 1/3rd of the republican party want to see Birth Control outright outlawed, and I’m willing to bet there are quite a few more of them who think that birth control is responsible for the deprivation and degeneration of America.

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, the Republican party is under control of a group of people determined to move America backwards 200 years morally. We ignore that madness at our peril.

169 charles_martel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:14:44pm

re: #161 jamesfirecat

I hear there’s a great one over at Steve’s place but you have to bring your own beer.

yeah, for today’s independent, it is truly BYO.

170 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:14:52pm

re: #143 Walter L. Newton

I feel sorry for anyone who actually proudly claims themselves as Republican.


What about those of us who want to reclaim the party center as one of fiscal responsibility and ethics? (Yeah there are plenty of reasons to feel sorry for them too but…) I’d rather not abandon the party name to the radicals. The Dems didn’t give up when the Dixiecrats held power. Why should the Reps give up now when the same crowd is trying to take over their party?

171 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:15:38pm

re: #156 charles_martel

I am a conservative. But I think the GOP is a bunch of crazy assholes. But every time I go to DailyKos, my blood boils. Where is a party for me?

There is no party that truly caters to people in the middle.

The Dems are not the Daily Kos though and they are closer to the middle than that. However, the GOP has gone so far off to the right, that anything that doesn’t wear a sheet or a brown shirt looks like a hippie.

172 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:16:29pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist Technically those are Yankees. NTTAWWT /

173 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:16:49pm

re: #165 Obdicut

And that would be what?

According to the declaration, it calls upon them to recognize the sacrifices of the soldiers, citizens, and leaders of the Confederacy in Virginia.

Can you explain what sacrifices those people made for the benefit of the black people in Virginia during the war?

Well they kept those black folks in their natural place… They get confused if you don’t watch them. Slavery was for their own good.

////

Did I mention I really hate racist assholes and the fact that people in the GOP these days actually think that way.

174 Political Atheist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:16:49pm

re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote

A serious frustration for sensible conservatives is without a major party to back or be supported by, we have very little influence. Upsets the normal checks and balances of interests.

175 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:16:50pm

re: #171 LudwigVanQuixote

I literally, literally passed by a hippie this morning who was wearing a scuzzy brown shirt with a white sheet wrapped around his waist.

Cue creepy coincidence music.

176 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:16:57pm

re: #155 SanFranciscoZionist

Good points.

Or, we can choose to define ‘white culture’ as the culture of slaveholding, but I’m not really in favor of that.

Which is what Ed is missing in his post. Although I’ll give him partial credit for not endorsing it, his confusion about why Confederate Celebration month is coming back now is easily answered. Ed is still in denial about the racist elements on the right. There’s a reason why Confederate flags and racist signs show up at Tea Parties. Hot Air is filled with racist comments, they publish RS McCain’s writtings and used to be owned by Michelle Malkin. That’s why Republican politicians think it’s time to revive the Confederacy. Ed just hasn’t come to terms with that yet.

177 reine.de.tout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:17:13pm

re: #138 SanFranciscoZionist

Hell yeah.

And, for those listening at home, who may be fainting, this does NOT mean not instilling moral or religious values about sex, or not telling kids they should wait to be sexually active. It’s about giving them clear, real knowledge of how their bodies work, and the social significance of that.

A child who has that knowledge can make moral decisions about his or her body, without falling for crap from predators or misinformed classmates.

Nobody’s fainting at this house. I agree 100%.

178 SpaceJesus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:17:25pm

inbred racist southern leader urges fellow rednecks to label themselves as “Confederate Southern American” on census form


[Link: www.splcenter.org…]

179 CarleeCork  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:17:33pm

re: #2 LudwigVanQuixote

IN other words, the GOP has become the party of arrogant ignorant and deeply frightened people, who feel that their false sense of entitlement to has been encroached upon by the successes of others in a world that has left them behind.


I’d say you pretty much summed it up.

180 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:17:57pm

re: #162 LudwigVanQuixote

He is supposed to scream bloody murder and destroy any Dixie flag he sees in exactly the same way I would tear down a swastika.


The crossed bars in the middle of the confederate battle flag make for a great paintball target. //

181 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:18:22pm

re: #166 McSpiff

What debate anyways? Virgina was defeated along with the rest of the CSA and the slaves were freed, the union restored. Not much debatable there.

Well we can debate if that was the force of reason taking hold in America, or Divine providence.

182 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:19:23pm

re: #181 LudwigVanQuixote

I vote both.

183 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:19:29pm

re: #163 avanti

I’m totally ok with this, but don’t you think it’s a confusing message, considering what her mother’s stand is on most things?

Bristol says, “Don’t get pregnant.” Well she of all people should know that 15-16 year old don’t ever believe it will happen to them.

How does one not get pregnant? Just say no? Tell that to a horny teen.

Meanwhile she didn’t mention contraception or a woman’s right to chose so I think her message falls way short.

184 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:19:39pm

You know, isn’t it a little…hmmm…PC…to demand that the losing side in a war be honored? I mean its not our fault they were widely and completely defeated, their ‘state’ destroyed. I seriously doubt any state in the CSA would be honoring the union today.

Wing nuts: Taking politcal correctness to new heights.


//waits for wing nut head asploding.

185 bosforus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:19:47pm

re: #178 SpaceJesus

inbred racist southern leader urges fellow rednecks to label themselves as “Confederate Southern American” on census form

[Link: www.splcenter.org…]

To prove how ignorant they really are?

186 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:19:56pm

What’s up with the GOP?!
Jonathan Capehart

Gov. Robert F. McDonnell’s (R-Va.) sanitized celebration of Confederate History Month got me thinking about a sanitized version of a common question that I’d like to ask the Republican Party: what the frig?! By itself, McDonnell’s seven-paragraph insult could be written off as the actions of a pandering politician currying favor with his local base. Unfortunately, it is one more piece of evidence that there’s nothing grand about the Grand Old Party these days.

There’s the lunatic fringe of the Tea Party movement. The legitimate concerns of Americans worried about skyrocketing deficits and the role and size of government have been hijacked by birthers, truthers and 10th Amendment types. Former Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.) added that requisite anti-immigrant spice at the February confab in Nashville. And when a crowd of these folks stormed the Capitol last month, Republican members of Congress egged them on. I can understand GOP leaders wanting to ride this bucking bronco. Their passion and enthusiasm could lead them to electoral gold in November. But there are long-term consequences for pursuing this strategy.

“I do not recognize myself in the Republican Party anymore,” lamented Chris Currey, who describes himself as a “worried, old, middle of the road Republican” on FrumForum. “We are the party of Abraham Lincoln, and yet we act and behave as if we are the party of Nathan Bedford Forrest.” He concludes, “If nothing happens, we might win an election or even two, but in the long run we will lose America.” And they’ll deserve to if they keep this up. Still, ultimately, it will be America that loses. The republic is ill-served by a two-party system in which one of the parties is bereft of a positive alternative to the majority party and is enthralled by a shrinking and increasingly reactionary base.

187 cgn38navy  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:20:42pm

re: #159 LudwigVanQuixote

The truth is: The North has been distorting the war for the last hundred years. The winners write the books, right? In order to justify the raping, pillaging, violations of property rights, carpetbagging, that took place in the 40 years following the war, they demon-ized the average southern white citizen. F_U Neil Young! Anyone, especially the so called intelligentsia that post on this blog should be aware there was a whole lot more to the war than slavery, and the complex and highly debated issues that led to the secessions.

188 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:20:46pm

re: #183 marjoriemoon

Just need to let you know I just got back on after about a couple of hours being away, so, don’t assume I know EVERYTHING going on right now… ok?

189 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:20:48pm

re: #178 SpaceJesus

inbred racist southern leader urges fellow rednecks to label themselves as “Confederate Southern American” on census form


[Link: www.splcenter.org…]


That will make it easier for the FBI to keep them under scrutiny.

190 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:21:12pm

re: #174 Rightwingconspirator

A serious frustration for sensible conservatives is without a major party to back or be supported by, we have very little influence. Upsets the normal checks and balances of interests.

Truly said.

I honestly think that if the Dems are smart, they will play more to the middle - which they have honestly been doing and pick up more of those votes.

Of course, the Dems have the mystical super power of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

The best thing that could happe would be the creation of a new party that had all of the moderate GOP types in it. They might ot be able to controll as much of the house or the senate for some time, but they would certainly get some seats and that would leave the GOP to be an aging and uneducated party of angry old white male bigots for Jesus.

191 reine.de.tout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:21:15pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

Good points.

Which is what Ed is missing in his post. Although I’ll give him partial credit for not endorsing it, his confusion about why Confederate Celebration month is coming back now is easily answered. Ed is still in denial about the racist elements on the right. There’s a reason why Confederate flags and racist signs show up at Tea Parties. Hot Air is filled with racist comments, they publish RS McCain’s writtings and used to be owned by Michelle Malkin. That’s why Republican politicians think it’s time to revive the Confederacy. Ed just hasn’t come to terms with that yet.

And neither have some readers of LGF. It’s a hard and very painful thing to do, I’m in pain every time I read about the racism rampant in the right wing right now.

It isn’t that all right-wingers are racist loons - but there are many decent people refusing to recognize how widespread this stuff is and demand that these elements be made unwelcome.

192 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:22:02pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

The truth is: The North has been distorting the war for the last hundred years.

Ah, now we know were you’re coming from. Heard that line many times before.

193 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:22:03pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

The truth is: The North has been distorting the war for the last hundred years. The winners write the books, right? In order to justify the raping, pillaging, violations of property rights, carpetbagging, that took place in the 40 years following the war, they demon-ized the average southern white citizen. F_U Neil Young! Anyone, especially the so called intelligentsia that post on this blog should be aware there was a whole lot more to the war than slavery, and the complex and highly debated issues that led to the secessions.

Free Bird!

194 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:22:07pm

re: #184 McSpiff

You know, isn’t it a little…hmmm…PC…to demand that the losing side in a war be honored? I mean its not our fault they were widely and completely defeated, their ‘state’ destroyed. I seriously doubt any state in the CSA would be honoring the union today.

Wing nuts: Taking politcal correctness to new heights.

//waits for wing nut head asploding.

Well lets do a little test….

Are there a bunch of people in the US who are celebrating how great the Red Coats were?

195 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:22:24pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

I’m curious. What are your thoughts on the Voting Rights Act of 1965?

196 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:23:25pm

Civil War deniers. Is that something new?

197 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:23:41pm

No racism at the tea parties?

198 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:23:52pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

Or better yet, Brown v Board of Education?

199 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:24:00pm

re: #188 Walter L. Newton

Just need to let you know I just got back on after about a couple of hours being away, so, don’t assume I know EVERYTHING going on right now… ok?

Why you always have to be so freaking nasty.

200 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:24:15pm

re: #184 McSpiff

The more I think about it, the more of an epiphany I’m having about it.

They don’t want Blacks to have Black History Month. That’s what this crap is about. Or more accurately, Blacks don’t get to have a month without “Racist History Month” just a hop/skip away.

201 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:24:29pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

The truth is: The North has been distorting the war for the last hundred years. The winners write the books, right? In order to justify the raping, pillaging, violations of property rights, carpetbagging, that took place in the 40 years following the war, they demon-ized the average southern white citizen. F_U Neil Young! Anyone, especially the so called intelligentsia that post on this blog should be aware there was a whole lot more to the war than slavery, and the complex and highly debated issues that led to the secessions.


We could find you books with pictures if you’d like. I know how much people like you enjoy different colors.


I suppose it’s all intelligentsia when you’re staring up…

202 pharmmajor  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:25:13pm

Yet another reason why the Libertarian Party is vastly superior to the GOP: we don’t deal in fantasy, revisionist history, or junk science.

203 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:25:32pm

Have to dash. I’ll be back to taunt you all a second time.

204 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:25:33pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

The truth is: The North has been distorting the war for the last hundred years. The winners write the books, right? In order to justify the raping, pillaging, violations of property rights, carpetbagging, that took place in the 40 years following the war, they demon-ized the average southern white citizen. F_U Neil Young! Anyone, especially the so called intelligentsia that post on this blog should be aware there was a whole lot more to the war than slavery, and the complex and highly debated issues that led to the secessions.

Why yes there were lot of causes for the south’s secession.

Did any of these come even close to being an reasonable reason for them to leave the union? WHY NOOOO…..

(Funnier if you imagine some saying “WHY YESSSSS…” and “WHY NOOOO…” in a very pretentius tone of voice)

Once they had done that however they had comitted treason.

Acts of treason can be punishable with death in most countries, this one included.

The South got off light in the eyes of what could have happened to it….

205 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:25:37pm

re: #197 Charles

see that’s not racism, it’s Obama’s reverse racism!

//

206 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:25:39pm

re: #202 pharmmajor

You are kidding, right?

207 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:25:46pm

re: #191 reine.de.tout

I think the black leaders in Virginia should declare Underground Railroad Month during the same goddamn month as this travesty. Partially to just shove this up McDonnell’s nose, but also as a reminder that there were white southerners putting their lives and honor on the line for blacks.

208 recusancy  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:25:48pm

re: #195 Irenicum

I’m curious. What are your thoughts on the Voting Rights Act of 1965?

Or the 13th Amendment to the Constitution.

209 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:25:57pm

re: #190 LudwigVanQuixote

Truly said.

I honestly think that if the Dems are smart, they will play more to the middle - which they have honestly been doing and pick up more of those votes.

Of course, the Dems have the mystical super power of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

The best thing that could happe would be the creation of a new party that had all of the moderate GOP types in it. They might ot be able to controll as much of the house or the senate for some time, but they would certainly get some seats and that would leave the GOP to be an aging and uneducated party of angry old white male bigots for Jesus.

The thing about the Dems is that they really are welcoming to middle-of-the-roaders. That’s why the whole HCR process was so messy: they have a big tent with lots of viewpoints inside, and getting them all moving in the same direction at the same time is hard.

Contrast that with the modern GOP: a monolithic hard line bloc, with the few remaining moderates cowed into submission.

One’s messy but welcoming, the other disciplined but crazy.

210 bosforus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:25:57pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

So you’re asking us to imagine what our country would look like if the South had won? The better side won the war,it does not justify anything they did 40 years after, but the better and more morally correct side of the war won and that’s a fact.

211 cgn38navy  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:26:03pm

re: #195 Irenicum

I was very proud that one of the Greatest Presidents of Our Country signed the extension in 2006.

sheesh, I’m conservative, not a racist. Although some would like you to believe they are one and the same.

212 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:26:54pm

re: #208 recusancy

Or the 14th amendment for that matter.

213 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:26:54pm

re: #202 pharmmajor

Yet another reason why the Libertarian Party is vastly superior to the GOP: we don’t deal in fantasy, revisionist history, or junk science.

Yeah, just building a city under the sea so you can finally get away from intrusive government and the parasites once and for all.

(Bioshock low blow I know…)

214 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:27:13pm

re: #211 cgn38navy

Can you answer my question then? What sacrifices did the citizens, soldiers, and leaders of the Confederacy make for the black residents of Virginia during the Civil War?

215 Bob Levin  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:27:16pm

re: #79 LudwigVanQuixote

Here’s a good place to jump in. Ludwig, remember that there is a difference between people doing something wrong and being evil. The first is easy to spot, relatively. The second, much more difficult. And halachically, they are treated differently.

Now, regarding political parties—the percentage of the electorate belonging to either party isn’t enough to win an election. Elections are won by the middle, the unaffiliated voter. So if the crazy wing of the Republicans are gaining steam, is it because more people are embracing the insanity or is it because the Democrats, who enjoy a super-majority, seem completely disorganized and out of touch with the electorate?

For the most part, people don’t vote For candidates, they vote against the other candidate. I think there is a large number of people who feel this super-majority is completely out of touch with the real world.

216 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:27:36pm

re: #184 McSpiff
The museum in the Cyclorama in Atlanta has a well balanced presentation, neither minimizing slavery as a cause or ignoring state sovereignty as an issue. It makes it very clear what was being fought over and the justifications of both sides (Union and Confederacy).

It is still clear that the Southern States (while arguing states rights) were most concerned about their right to continue race based slavery. It is also clear that slavery was a national issue and prior to the war abolitionists were from North and South.

217 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:28:26pm

re: #202 pharmmajor

Yet another reason why the Libertarian Party is vastly superior to the GOP: we don’t deal in fantasy, revisionist history, or junk science.

There are plenty of libertarians denying AGW, sorry. There’s a strong anti-science streak there, too.

[Link: crookedtimber.org…]

218 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:28:43pm

re: #211 cgn38navy

I was very proud that one of the Greatest Presidents of Our Country signed the extension in 2006.

sheesh, I’m conservative, not a racist. Although some would like you to believe they are one and the same.

I would never accuse someone of being racist simply because they’re conservative. Now, neo-confederate hillbillies like yourself are an entirely different matter.

Sorry, I’ll try that again. I DON’T THINK YOU LIKE BLACK PEOPLE. Didn’t want to confuse you.

219 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:28:51pm

CNN has got a flaming poop sandwich on their hands. Network goes after journalist after negative remarks from White House. Bill Press asked Gibbs what he thought of Erickson’s shotgun and a census worker comments.[Link: twitter.com…]

220 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:29:13pm

re: #190 LudwigVanQuixote
I really wish they’d leave my Lord and Savior out of their politics. My personal experience with God is that He’s more interested in individual character than special interest issues.

221 cgn38navy  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:29:17pm

re: #207 Obdicut

I’ve been taking some classes at NSU and the Underground Railroad and the free blacks were very notable part of the Civil War locally.

222 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:29:31pm

re: #193 garhighway

Free Bird!

Sorry, this is the best I could do on such short notice.

223 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:29:41pm

re: #202 pharmmajor

Yet another reason why the Libertarian Party is vastly superior to the GOP: we don’t deal in fantasy, revisionist history, or junk science.

Ah the Libertarian Party… the party that is and always will be the party of the future.

224 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:29:45pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

The truth is: The North has been distorting the war for the last hundred years. The winners write the books, right? In order to justify the raping, pillaging, violations of property rights, carpetbagging, that took place in the 40 years following the war, they demon-ized the average southern white citizen. F_U Neil Young! Anyone, especially the so called intelligentsia that post on this blog should be aware there was a whole lot more to the war than slavery, and the complex and highly debated issues that led to the secessions.

OK let’s look at this honestly and remind you of some history.

The South practiced not just slavery, but chattel slavery. People were literally bred and sold as animals and reduced to that state. In order to reinforce and justify that system, white Southerners indoctrinated their children and themselves that black people actually were like animals.

You want to talk about rape? How dare you mention that while ignoring slavery?

Seriously. That is sickening. Look into the regular violation of black women at the hands of their masters.

You want to talk about carpet baggers? Why were carpet baggers bad? Because they threatened the chattel slave economy. Whining about how they robbed from you, the profits you extracted from the toil and degradations of slaves is like ex nazis whining that the Swiss won’t give them the gold in those deposit boxes either.

Disgusting.

You want to talk about Union abuses during the war?

OK one word.
Andersonville.

In short fuck you and your ignorance. Fuck your blind defense of racism, your callow revisionism and your insensitivity to the people who were actually wronged - the slaves. Fuck your blindness and fuck you sideways in general.

225 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:30:24pm

re: #221 cgn38navy

I’ve been taking some classes at NSU and the Underground Railroad and the free blacks were very notable part of the Civil War locally.

That’s great. Can you answer my question yet?

226 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:30:30pm

re: #202 pharmmajor

Yet another reason why the Libertarian Party is vastly superior to the GOP: we don’t deal in fantasy, revisionist history, or junk science.

Got a link for that?

227 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:30:34pm

re: #211 cgn38navy

That’s good to hear. But your apologia for the south still stinks.

228 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:30:43pm

re: #222 Slumbering Behemoth

Sorry, this is the best I could do on such short notice.

I appreciate the effort.

229 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:31:00pm

re: #221 cgn38navy

I’ve been taking some classes at NSU and the Underground Railroad and the free blacks were very notable part of the Civil War locally.

…you do realize that this proclamation from the governor is for the guys that tried to destroy the Underground railroad, and the free blacks, right?

230 darthstar  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:31:11pm

re: #163 avanti

Bristol Palin’s new PSA ad on teen pregnancy.

“Pause before you play.” She doesn’t even mention contraception. Oh, that’s right. Contraception doesn’t work and only encourages people to ‘play.’ Also, what her ad is saying is “I was lucky…I’ve got a famous mommy.” Never mind that she’s dressed like a professional in a power suit and pearls. Nah…I don’t think this is a great ad.

Pause before you play…but play!

231 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:31:12pm

re: #202 pharmmajor

Yet another reason why the Libertarian Party is vastly superior to the GOP: we don’t deal in fantasy, revisionist history, or junk science.

Glenn Beck must have missed that memo. You should probably have a talk with him.

232 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:31:25pm

re: #227 Irenicum

And by “south” I’m referring to the Confederate crowd. I used to live in the south and loved it.

233 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:31:58pm

re: #210 bosforus

So you’re asking us to imagine what our country would look like if the South had won? The better side won the war,it does not justify anything they did 40 years after, but the better and more morally correct side of the war won and that’s a fact.


It would look like colonies of Great Britain and France.

234 pharmmajor  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:32:18pm

re: #226 wrenchwench

Got a link for that?


Of course:

[Link: www.lp.org…]

235 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:32:43pm

Classic Teabonics sign.

236 pharmmajor  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:33:09pm

re: #231 Slumbering Behemoth

Glenn Beck must have missed that memo. You should probably have a talk with him.

If I may paraphrase Bob Chipman, “If Glenn Beck is a libertarian, then I’m Bruce Wayne.”

237 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:33:39pm

re: #232 Irenicum

And by “south” I’m referring to the Confederate crowd. I used to live in the south and loved it.

The south is a great place to live, the problem is that there are all these southeners there already!

238 JHW  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:33:54pm

The winners write the books? That one needs to be put to bed too. The US government did not censor Southern writers after the war. This guy, Edward A Pollard of the Richmond Examiner, wrote, immediately after the war, a series of rose-colored books, “The Lost Cause”, that were standard for decades south of the Mason-Dixon line, including school use. None of that one-sided Yankee stuff would do, and he was not hindered or prosecuted for doing so.

Japan is regularly criticized for its revisionist writings for school use concerning WW2 . Many of the German politicians, generals, and assorted big-wigs wrote their memoirs after both World Wars with no censorship by the Allies. And famously, Thucydides wrote the Pelopenessian War , he was Athenian, on the losing side.

Enough of this “the winners write the histories”.

239 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:34:18pm

For a good time call try

The Modern Whig Party.

240 sandbox  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:35:06pm

I am a Republican (a/k/a the stupid party) and think that Bob McDonald’s statements about the South in the Civil War are idiotic, and disappointing coming from a Governor of Virginia.

241 bosforus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:35:08pm

re: #235 Charles

WTheck? How did they get “constitutional” right but not “socialist”? And they were closer to “scholastic”.

242 Jack Burton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:35:21pm

re: #202 pharmmajor

Yet another reason why the Libertarian Party is vastly superior to the GOP: we don’t deal in fantasy, revisionist history, or junk science.

Is this opposite day? A lot of the Tea Partier kooks used to be Libertarian party kooks. The LP is a virtual cornucopia of taking principles to illogical extremes, paranoid conspiracy theories, revisionist history, and junk science.

I *really* hope you were missing a sarc tag.

243 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:35:51pm

re: #239 Ojoe

I was wondering when you’d show up!

244 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:35:57pm

It’s funny you know. What with the Tea Parties and all and the frequent talk of states rights, sovereignty, outsiders, Communism, etc. Most of which in principle is the same rhetoric or words used by the segregationists during the civil rights movement.

Now we find that in addition to this we see the knee jerk defense of Confederate History Month and the idealism of the Confederate States with no regard to the exclusion of slavery in Governor McDonnell’s proclamation. Neo-Confederacy is now seen with pride and it’s reached the point of finding new followers.

Adding to this is the occasional chatter that President Lincoln was a tyrant with some going as far as calling him a “war criminal” at the XPAC sessions at the last CPAC conference.

They are digging a hole far deeper then ever expected. This defensiveness of the Confederacy is quite revealing.

245 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:35:58pm

re: #202 pharmmajor

Yet another reason why the Libertarian Party is vastly superior to the GOP: we don’t deal in fantasy, revisionist history, or junk science.

What struck me funny was someone saying the dem party is closest to the middle. LOLOL. It’s always a matter of perspective and what the “moderate” dems don’t seem to understand is that all their “moderation” is giving the country over to those “racist” GOP members. If you aren’t a libertarian or an independent you’re a tool of whichever idiot party you happen to belong. Down with the man.

246 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:35:59pm

re: #228 garhighway

I appreciate the effort.

I can’t believe there is not a Mariachi version of “Freebird” out there somewhere, when this is so easy to find.

247 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:36:26pm

re: #215 Bob Levin

Here’s a good place to jump in. Ludwig, remember that there is a difference between people doing something wrong and being evil. The first is easy to spot, relatively. The second, much more difficult. And halachically, they are treated differently.

We both know that we can debate the finer points of halacha forever. However, the Tradition is quite clear about the malicious abuse and defrauding of others as being evil. I think you would have a very hard time finding any rabbi who would poskin in favor of the organ traffickers.

NO it really is evil, and as an everyday Jew we have a duty to fight against it.

Now, regarding political parties—the percentage of the electorate belonging to either party isn’t enough to win an election. Elections are won by the middle, the unaffiliated voter. So if the crazy wing of the Republicans are gaining steam, is it because more people are embracing the insanity or is it because the Democrats, who enjoy a super-majority, seem completely disorganized and out of touch with the electorate?

Both things are happening. However, the GOP is actually shrinking as a party. They are hemorrhaging their intelligent, and their educated. They are hemorrhaging the younger votes. Honestly, the GOP as it is will die off in 20 years simply through old age if they continue on this track.

For the most part, people don’t vote For candidates, they vote against the other candidate. I think there is a large number of people who feel this super-majority is completely out of touch with the real world.

This too is true.

248 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:36:27pm

re: #240 sandbox

Who’s Bob MacDonald?

249 Irenicum  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:37:07pm

re: #241 bosforus

Maybe they meant scoliosis? After all they are all bent out of shape.

250 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:37:10pm

re: #236 pharmmajor

If I may paraphrase Bob Chipman, “If Glenn Beck is a libertarian, then I’m Bruce Wayne.”

So you’re calling Beck a LINO? NTTAWWT. I don’t want him either.

251 bosforus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:37:22pm

OT - glad to have just overheard a meeting in a State DOT building where the conversation was basically, “Why do we have so many f*n signs for the airport? Just look up and follow the planes!”

252 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:37:35pm

re: #246 Slumbering Behemoth

I can’t believe there is not a Mariachi version of “Freebird” out there somewhere, when this is so easy to find.

Life’s little mysteries.

253 pharmmajor  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:37:54pm

re: #242 ArchangelMichael

Is this opposite day? A lot of the Tea Partier kooks used to be Libertarian party kooks. The LP is a virtual cornucopia of taking principles to illogical extremes, paranoid conspiracy theories, revisionist history, and junk science.

I *really* hope you were missing a sarc tag.

I think you’re looking at the fringe (which every group has) and interpreting them as the majority. And as I’ve mentioned earlier, the Tea Parties were hijacked by the right-wing kooks and corrupted from the more rational libertarian base.

254 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:37:57pm

re: #224 LudwigVanQuixote

Andersonville was abuse of Union soldiers by Confederate jailers. Just to clarify that.

The war was ugly no doubt and the Union did start it. The question is were they justified in entering Virginia to stop succession. Constitutionally that was dubius. But constitutionally slavery should have been illegal too. Categorizing blacks as property was legally dubious and morally bankrupt.

Morally I think Lincoln did the right thing. I would have hated to have been in Robert E Lee’s shoes having to choose between loyalty to State and Loyalty to Union.

Interestingly enough my own ancestry includes a bunch of abolitionists, a handful of Unions soldiers, some race-mixing Quakers and one northern slave holder (2 house slaves that were freed upon his death).

255 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:38:41pm

re: #253 pharmmajor

The libertarians have a giant anti-science streak in them, shown primarily at the moment in AGW denial.

You going to bother to address that?

256 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:39:04pm

re: #254 DaddyG

Andersonville was abuse of Union soldiers by Confederate jailers. Just to clarify that.

The war was ugly no doubt and the Union did start it. The question is were they justified in entering Virginia to stop succession. Constitutionally that was dubius. But constitutionally slavery should have been illegal too. Categorizing blacks as property was legally dubious and morally bankrupt.

Morally I think Lincoln did the right thing. I would have hated to have been in Robert E Lee’s shoes having to choose between loyalty to State and Loyalty to Union.

Interestingly enough my own ancestry includes a bunch of abolitionists, a handful of Unions soldiers, some race-mixing Quakers and one northern slave holder (2 house slaves that were freed upon his death).

The Unioni fired on fort Sumter? Really? How exactly did the Union start it?

257 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:39:05pm

re: #93 pingjockey

Roe was signed over, what? 30 years ago? Why do these fools keep bringing it up? I personally know 2 women who had abortions, one was an oops and one was life threatening. I will never ever ask them about it. IT WAS THEIR BUSINESS!

Not to quibble, but “signed”?

258 cgn38navy  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:39:45pm

re: #218 McSpif

re: #224 LudwigVanQuixote

sideways? gosh, you are tough. Perhaps you should get some air before you get the vapors. and I Betcha wouldn’t say that to my face, tough guy.

In answer to everyone else: Virginia is on the forefront of race relations as well as everthing else. Our black schools, community leaders, and politicians are among the best this country has to offer. Yes the civil war divided the country, but it also divided Virginia. Your simplistic jumping on the band wagon of label things RACIST shows your political bent, not real insight into racism.

259 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:39:54pm

re: #254 DaddyG

Andersonville was abuse of Union soldiers by Confederate jailers. Just to clarify that.

The war was ugly no doubt and the Union did start it. The question is were they justified in entering Virginia to stop succession. Constitutionally that was dubius. But constitutionally slavery should have been illegal too. Categorizing blacks as property was legally dubious and morally bankrupt.

Morally I think Lincoln did the right thing. I would have hated to have been in Robert E Lee’s shoes having to choose between loyalty to State and Loyalty to Union.

Interestingly enough my own ancestry includes a bunch of abolitionists, a handful of Unions soldiers, some race-mixing Quakers and one northern slave holder (2 house slaves that were freed upon his death).

Fort Sumter?

260 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:39:56pm

re: #147 cgn38navy

Fontaine Maury Morris, is that you?

261 pharmmajor  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:40:08pm

re: #255 Obdicut

The libertarians have a giant anti-science streak in them, shown primarily at the moment in AGW denial.

You going to bother to address that?

It’s not so much denial as it is questioning whether or not AGW has a greater impact than natural occurrences (volcanic eruptions, forest fires, natural methane release), and skepticism over some of the most touted remedies to alleviate the problem.

262 charles_martel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:40:13pm

re: #239 Ojoe

Not too bad, actually. Based on a quick read of their stated goals…..

263 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:40:21pm

re: #254 DaddyG

Andersonville was abuse of Union soldiers by Confederate jailers. Just to clarify that.

The war was ugly no doubt and the Union did start it. The question is were they justified in entering Virginia to stop succession. Constitutionally that was dubius. But constitutionally slavery should have been illegal too. Categorizing blacks as property was legally dubious and morally bankrupt.

Morally I think Lincoln did the right thing. I would have hated to have been in Robert E Lee’s shoes having to choose between loyalty to State and Loyalty to Union.

Interestingly enough my own ancestry includes a bunch of abolitionists, a handful of Unions soldiers, some race-mixing Quakers and one northern slave holder (2 house slaves that were freed upon his death).


“The war was ugly no doubt and the Union did start it. “


WAIT WAIT WAIT!


Umm…. Does For Sumter ring a bell?

264 reine.de.tout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:40:26pm

re: #232 Irenicum

And by “south” I’m referring to the Confederate crowd. I used to live in the south and loved it.


I’ve always lived in the South and love it.
Sorry, SJ.

265 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:40:39pm

re: #258 cgn38navy

Can you answer my question yet?

Or going to keep dodging?

266 pharmmajor  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:41:18pm

re: #213 jamesfirecat

Yeah, just building a city under the sea so you can finally get away from intrusive government and the parasites once and for all.

(Bioshock low blow I know…)

That’s Ayn Rand-school Objectivism, not Libertarianism.

267 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:41:24pm

re: #261 pharmmajor

It’s not so much denial as it is questioning whether or not AGW has a greater impact than natural occurrences (volcanic eruptions, forest fires, natural methane release), and skepticism over some of the most touted remedies to alleviate the problem.

As I thought.

Scientists are not skeptical on that subject. There is consensus. That position you name is, in fact, anti-science.

Thanks for being honest.

268 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:41:49pm

re: #266 pharmmajor

That’s Ayn Rand-school Objectivism, not Libertarianism.

What’s the difference?

(Serious question)

269 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:42:11pm

re: #258 cgn38navy

re: #224 LudwigVanQuixote

sideways? gosh, you are tough. Perhaps you should get some air before you get the vapors. and I Betcha wouldn’t say that to my face, tough guy.

In answer to everyone else: Virginia is on the forefront of race relations as well as everthing else. Our black schools, community leaders, and politicians are among the best this country has to offer. Yes the civil war divided the country, but it also divided Virginia. Your simplistic jumping on the band wagon of label things RACIST shows your political bent, not real insight into racism.

I have a second degree black belt and I press over 200 lbs. I would happily say it to your face :)

270 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:42:49pm

re: #258 cgn38navy

re: #224 LudwigVanQuixote

sideways? gosh, you are tough. Perhaps you should get some air before you get the vapors. and I Betcha wouldn’t say that to my face, tough guy.

In answer to everyone else: Virginia is on the forefront of race relations as well as everthing else. Our black schools, community leaders, and politicians are among the best this country has to offer. Yes the civil war divided the country, but it also divided Virginia. Your simplistic jumping on the band wagon of label things RACIST shows your political bent, not real insight into racism.

No, I don’t tend to hang around those who pine for failed states and lost wars. But seriously, threaten me over the internet, that’s new and exciting.

Virgina is an amazing state, probably one of my favorite by far. Its just too bad its got its dinosaurs like you and the governor.

271 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:42:53pm

re: #151 DaddyG


If you want a story about heroic black men in the Civil war look into the Mass. 54th portrayed in the movie Glory.

2nd best Civil War movie ever (nothing can come close to GWTW)

272 lostlakehiker  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:43:01pm

If I might go off topic?

Can anyone give the name of the Mozart work which begins with a sustained long C note? Just C, ccccccccccccccccccc. ? A symphony, if memory serves.

As to the rest, this conservative was citing Battle Cry of Freedom, the history of the civil war by James McPherson, just yesterday, for its solid job of proving that secession was all about preserving slavery.

This conservative thinks that global warming is serious enough that the Sierra Club is missing the point in its determination to block transmission lines that cross nature preserve boundaries.

This conservative thinks that Sherman was a hero and that his march through Georgia was to war what surgery is to medicine: bloody and painful but it cuts to the chase and does the job. Sorry, Georgia, but there wasn’t a prettier way. There just wasn’t.

273 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:43:06pm

re: #254 DaddyG

The war was ugly no doubt and the Union did start it. The question is were they justified in entering Virginia to stop succession. Constitutionally that was dubius.

Perhaps my schooling was incomplete, but I seem to recall the first shots being fired by the South at Fort Sumter.

And how does one end a succession without going to the successionist territory and subduing it by force? I don’t think standing at the border with a bullhorn quite does the trick. To deny the state the right to put down a rebellion is to deny its right to exist.

274 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:43:28pm

re: #217 Obdicut

There are plenty of libertarians denying AGW, sorry. There’s a strong anti-science streak there, too.

[Link: crookedtimber.org…]

I didn’t see anything in that article that suggested libertarians were denying AGW. I saw some arguments about what should be done, or not done, but nothing denying the science. I’m sure there are libertarians out there that doubt the veracity of the science industry so could you update your link with one of those arguments for me?

275 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:44:01pm

re: #256 LudwigVanQuixote

The Unioni fired on fort Sumter? Really? How exactly did the Union start it?

The Union entered Virginia territory and formally (declared) started the War.

The conflict over Sumter wasn’t as clear cut being a federal installation in South Carolina. The States (even in the north) did not recognize federal powers like we do today. The Civil war was one of the things that solidified the Federal role over States.

I say Lincoln was correct but that didn’t mean it was all that legally clear cut to march the Union armies over the Virginia border in the 1860s.

Looking back from today it is all very clear but don’t be guilty of presentism in your understanding of the war and how people felt about it or justified it in legal terms.

276 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:44:14pm

re: #35 Charles

As I recall, way at the end of the war, a few did.

277 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:44:30pm

re: #274 RogueOne

Well, Pharm already took care of that by posting direct AGW denial.

278 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:45:08pm

re: #269 LudwigVanQuixote

I have a second degree black belt and I press over 200 lbs. I would happily say it to your face :)

This guy is most likely pushing over 200lbs with a 2nd degree black belt in Cheetos. The trick is to use chop-sticks.

279 cgn38navy  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:46:37pm

re: #11 McSpiff

I wasn’t threatning you, I was pointing out to Mr. 2nd degree blackbelt 200 lb press what a blowhard he was being by telling me to go fuck myself sideways.

280 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:46:50pm

re: #278 McSpiff

This guy is most likely pushing over 200lbs with a 2nd degree black belt in Cheetos. The trick is to use chop-sticks.

Oh it’s obvious isn’t it? The second some idiot starts getting all tough like that - yeah mr. smart guy say that to my face, you know he is the sort of guy whose man boobs smell extra vinegary.

281 pharmmajor  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:47:10pm

re: #277 Obdicut

Well, Pharm already took care of that by posting direct AGW denial.

Where did you get denial from what I said?

282 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:47:50pm

“In your hands, not mine, my dissatisfied fellow countrymen, lies the momentous issue of civil war.”

Abraham Lincoln, 1st inaugural address.

283 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:47:56pm

re: #277 Obdicut

Well, Pharm already took care of that by posting direct AGW denial.

That’s not how I took his response but you read between the lines better than anyone I know.

284 allegro  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:47:59pm

re: #271 Alouette

2nd best Civil War movie ever (nothing can come close to GWTW)

Gettysburg was amazing as well. It was a 2 or 3 part miniseries that presented both sides beautifully.

285 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:48:02pm

re: #279 cgn38navy

I wasn’t threatning you, I was pointing out to Mr. 2nd degree blackbelt 200 lb press what a blowhard he was being by telling me to go fuck myself sideways.

Yes I am a blowhard for not letting you spew historical revisionism that sweeps the atrocious suffering of millions under the rug.

Too bad. Suck it up cheeto breath. I’d say that to your face as well.

286 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:48:32pm

re: #281 pharmmajor

Where did you get denial from what I said?

This part:

whether or not AGW has a greater impact than natural occurrences (volcanic eruptions, forest fires, natural methane release),

287 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:48:37pm

re: #280 LudwigVanQuixote

That sir, is the most wonderfully disgusting thing I’ve read all day.

re: #279 cgn38navy

I wasn’t threatning you, I was pointing out to Mr. 2nd degree blackbelt 200 lb press what a blowhard he was being by telling me to go fuck myself sideways.

O Sorry.

Go fuck yourself you useless bigot.

There, now my reply makes sense.

288 ryannon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:49:00pm

Don’t look now folks, but we’re getting into everything but an actual shooting war with one another. And at this rate, even that shouldn’t be far behind.

289 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:49:07pm

re: #287 McSpiff

That sir, is the most wonderfully disgusting thing I’ve read all day.

re: #279 cgn38navy

O Sorry.

Go fuck yourself you useless bigot.

There, now my reply makes sense.

Thank you sir!

290 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:49:21pm

re: #283 RogueOne

There is no scientific dispute over whether AGW has a ‘greater impact’ than natural occurrences.

It’s true, it might not be denial, it might simply be scientific ignorance.

291 lostlakehiker  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:49:39pm

re: #254 DaddyG

Andersonville was abuse of Union soldiers by Confederate jailers. Just to clarify that.

The war was ugly no doubt and the Union did start it. The question is were they justified in entering Virginia to stop succession. Constitutionally that was dubius. But constitutionally slavery should have been illegal too. Categorizing blacks as property was legally dubious and morally bankrupt.

Morally I think Lincoln did the right thing. I would have hated to have been in Robert E Lee’s shoes having to choose between loyalty to State and Loyalty to Union.

Interestingly enough my own ancestry includes a bunch of abolitionists, a handful of Unions soldiers, some race-mixing Quakers and one northern slave holder (2 house slaves that were freed upon his death).

The union did not start the civil war.

(1) The south seceded. Secession includes taking over federal property, and as such it’s an act of war.

(2) The south fired the first shot.

Unless you want to call it an act of war to elect a president who favors the restriction of slavery to just those states where it’s already established, you can’t say that the north started the war.

A mindset that says we get to expand forever, and if you get in our way the war’s on you, is nuts. It’s doubly nuts when what you’re expanding is slavery.

292 cgn38navy  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:50:17pm

re: #26 LudwigVanQuixote

No, you be mumbling it as you gasp for air trying to breath as I held you in a headlock against my massive suffocating vinegar manboobs.

293 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:50:34pm

re: #210 bosforus

So you’re asking us to imagine what our country would look like if the South had won? The better side won the war,it does not justify anything they did 40 years after, but the better and more morally correct side of the war won and that’s a fact.

He needs to read some Turtledove. Maybe that’ll help him understand a hypothetical world where the South won the Civil war.

294 Jack Burton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:50:52pm

re: #253 pharmmajor

I think you’re looking at the fringe (which every group has) and interpreting them as the majority. And as I’ve mentioned earlier, the Tea Parties were hijacked by the right-wing kooks and corrupted from the more rational libertarian base.

Nice try but no the entire LP is the fringe. When I was in the LP there were 2 types of “libertarians”. People who said shit with a straight face that would make Art Bell or David Icke blush, and people who wanted pot to be legalized and didn’t give 2 shits about anything else. Rational libertarians (small-L) don’t associate with the LP. They are independents who hold their noses voting for the least offensive D or R candidate and are not swayed by easily debunked conspiracy theories.

And as for not being AGW-deniers but “skeptics” we know this is bullshit. Being skeptical of the proposed solutions is fine (I am), but being skeptical of the science at this point is garbage and only excusable for people who live under a rock. If you are ignoring the fact that your talking points have been debunked already, and you continue to spew them, you are a denier.

295 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:51:03pm

re: #275 DaddyG

The Union entered Virginia territory and formally (declared) started the War.

The conflict over Sumter wasn’t as clear cut being a federal installation in South Carolina. The States (even in the north) did not recognize federal powers like we do today. The Civil war was one of the things that solidified the Federal role over States.

I say Lincoln was correct but that didn’t mean it was all that legally clear cut to march the Union armies over the Virginia border in the 1860s.

Looking back from today it is all very clear but don’t be guilty of presentism in your understanding of the war and how people felt about it or justified it in legal terms.

The Union armies were traversing the territory of the United States of America. Which included Virginia. As they had every legal right to do.

It was all the U. S. of A. until the entire U. S. of A., by the Constitutional processes then existing (aka a Constitutional amendment) changed it. The legal way to leave the Union is to propose a Constitutional amendment taking your state or territory out. If it is ratified, then off you go.

296 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:51:48pm

re: #290 Obdicut

I believe that would be called “cost-benefit” analysis, something that should probably be taken into consideration before the confiscation and spending of trillions of dollars of other people’s money.

297 pharmmajor  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:52:08pm

re: #286 Obdicut

That’s not denial. I acknowledge AGW, but account for other factors that may play a greater role in climate change than humans.

298 Bob Levin  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:52:27pm

re: #247 LudwigVanQuixote

I think we agree that the traffickers are wrong and that they should be stopped, and the penalty should be considerable. No question about that. The debate that we would have forever would over what kind of final judgment a court would make, and even what size the court would be, 3, 23, 73? (I think I have those numbers correct.) I’m just saying, when making that particular judgment, be easy on the trigger. And I understand your criteria for making that judgment—and if we were on one of those courts we might even agree on the final verdict. However, the process is paramount. I don’t think we disagree here.

Regarding the electorate—we’ll find out where the middle is, and how big the middle is come November.

299 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:53:43pm

re: #296 RogueOne

I believe that would be called “cost-benefit” analysis, something that should probably be taken into consideration before the confiscation and spending of trillions of dollars of other people’s money.

No. This is entirely separate from cost-benefit analysis. That has to do with solutions. This has to do with what is happening in the system and why.

I am all for cost-benefit analysis, which is why I call corn biodesiel counterproductive and cap and trade practically useless.

300 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:54:05pm

re: #297 pharmmajor

That’s not denial. I acknowledge AGW, but account for other factors that may play a greater role in climate change than humans.

That is, in fact, denial. You do know what the A in AGW stands for, right?

301 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:54:29pm

re: #291 lostlakehiker

The union did not start the civil war.

(1) The south seceded. Secession includes taking over federal property, and as such it’s an act of war.

(2) The south fired the first shot.

Unless you want to call it an act of war to elect a president who favors the restriction of slavery to just those states where it’s already established, you can’t say that the north started the war.

A mindset that says we get to expand forever, and if you get in our way the war’s on you, is nuts. It’s doubly nuts when what you’re expanding is slavery.

Well put. I was making a distinction between an act of war as seen by the Feds and the Confeds and their interpretation of the constitutional powers of the Federal Government and the moral obligation to hold the union together and abolish slavery. A fine distinction to be sure but one the South felt justified their actions nonetheless. It wasn’t all so clear cut in the 1860s and the Union was the first to amass an army (vs the isolated actions of state militias) and cross over into the other side’s territory (making it a general war and not an isolated skirmish.

I repeat- I side with the Union and agree with the decision to engage in a general war with the confederacy to keep the Union under a single government and abolish slavery.

302 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:54:56pm

re: #292 cgn38navy

No, you be mumbling it as you gasp for air trying to breath as I held you in a headlock against my massive suffocating vinegar manboobs.

Pathetic troll is pathetic.

303 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:56:07pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

Sorry. Would you like some cheese with your whine? In the meantime, here’s some dinner music:Marching Through Georgia

William

304 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:56:35pm

re: #295 garhighway

The Union armies were traversing the territory of the United States of America. Which included Virginia. As they had every legal right to do.

It was all the U. S. of A. until the entire U. S. of A., by the Constitutional processes then existing (aka a Constitutional amendment) changed it. The legal way to leave the Union is to propose a Constitutional amendment taking your state or territory out. If it is ratified, then off you go.

I agree with you. Lincoln agrees with you. The confederate leaders did not see it that way. The right to leave the union was seen as constitutionally protected by the states that voted to do so.

305 lostlakehiker  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:56:50pm

re: #297 pharmmajor

That’s not denial. I acknowledge AGW, but account for other factors that may play a greater role in climate change than humans.

By implication you suggest that CO2 from volcanic eruptions may be a larger factor in the changing atmospheric CO2 level than human fossil fuel consumption. Is that what you meant to say?

Before answering, take your time. Read up a bit on the question. See if you can arrive at the actual answer to the question. It has an answer. Hint: the graph of CO2 level, month by month, taken in Hawaii, is amazingly regular. Every year, without exception, it goes down, and it goes up, and it ends up higher than it was the previous time last year.

Volcanoes don’t have that kind of schedule.

306 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:56:51pm

re: #298 Bob Levin

I think we agree that the traffickers are wrong and that they should be stopped, and the penalty should be considerable. No question about that. The debate that we would have forever would over what kind of final judgment a court would make, and even what size the court would be, 3, 23, 73? (I think I have those numbers correct.) I’m just saying, when making that particular judgment, be easy on the trigger. And I understand your criteria for making that judgment—and if we were on one of those courts we might even agree on the final verdict. However, the process is paramount. I don’t think we disagree here.

Regarding the electorate—we’ll find out where the middle is, and how big the middle is come November.

OK 73 is right out as that would only be applicable to royalty or the Chen Gadol and requires a re-instituted sanhedrin.

If that is re-institued, I have it on good authority that such cases wouldn’t be happening anymore anyway.

23 would apply if it were a capital case. However, that would also require a re-institued Sanhedrin.

I think we could conclude that this would be a case where even the Beit Din would be happy for the civil authorities handling the case.

307 Tigger2005  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:56:58pm

re: #10 prairiefire

My mother-in-law’s father was interred when she was 4. I often wonder if this earlier childhood trauma developed a fearful world view, and it is very fearful. President George W. Bush could wage as many wars as possible to kill the terrorists, it was all fine with her. Republicans are tough and strong because of their righteous convictions, to her.
She is genuinely fearful of President Alabama’s administration. Really, just as much as I was under Bush.

I don’t really understand your way of thinking either, to be honest. Bush’s moves after the 9/11 attacks were actually quite thoughtful and deliberate, whether they were the “right” moves or not. He acted firmly, but not recklessly. He went to the UN and he built coalitions. I don’t get where people think he acted like a wild cowboy. After terror attacks of that magnitude, he actually showed quite a bit of restraint. Roosevelt and Churchill showed far less, and Lincoln made some pretty draconian moves during the Civil War. You need to consider his actions in a historical context.

308 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:57:30pm
The GOP is, effectively, the party of willfully unlettered Utopians.

The part that I take issue with here is the “Utopian” tag. Utopians generally wish to go to a nice place where they’ve never been before, but where the fruit trees give fruit and the cornfields give corn all year round. They can be pitied for their idealism.

These “Notopians”, as I shall call them, want to go back to a place that never existed except in their tiny little minds, where all the women were virgins or matrons, all the men were heroic woodsmen and herders and valiant defenders of Southern womanhood, and all the children were above average.

Which ones are the bigger idiots?

309 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:57:30pm

re: #306 LudwigVanQuixote
PIMF

OK 73 is right out as that would only be applicable to royalty or the Cohen Gadol and requires a re-instituted sanhedrin.

If that is re-institued, I have it on good authority that such cases wouldn’t be happening anymore anyway.

23 would apply if it were a capital case. However, that would also require a re-institued Sanhedrin.

I think we could conclude that this would be a case where even the Beit Din would be happy for the civil authorities handling the case.

310 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:57:41pm

re: #294 ArchangelMichael

Nice try but no the entire LP is the fringe. When I was in the LP there were 2 types of “libertarians”. People who said shit with a straight face that would make Art Bell or David Icke blush, and people who wanted pot to be legalized and didn’t give 2 shits about anything else. Rational libertarians (small-L) don’t associate with the LP. They are independents who hold their noses voting for the least offensive D or R candidate and are not swayed by easily debunked conspiracy theories.

(*Second point deleted as not relevant to my response *)

Generally I agree with your assessment of the current state of the Libertarian Party, but… and this may be damning with faint praise, they’re still a better choice for me IMO because they’re still better than the Current Republican party.

I’ll contribute money to the LP and I’ll even run as an LP candidate, why? because none of the parties fit my vision of smaller government as an ideal. That doesn’t mean I want to move to anarchy or move America back 150 years, it means that I think that government should be our response of last resort for a solution, not the first resort.

a great example of that is health care, we tried to use for profit corporations to build and create a health care system, but ther were too many holes. so we have medicaid medicare s-chip, and now a system in place to give everyone the opportunity to have good health care without costing themselves or myself an arm or a leg. Is that Libertarian of me to say that government is needed to intervene? probably not, but as I said, smaller government is an ideal, and ideals aren’t always practical.

We need more people willing to look at things as practical libertarians and understand the role of government.

311 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:57:52pm

re: #294 ArchangelMichael

Nice try but no the entire LP is the fringe. When I was in the LP there were 2 types of “libertarians”. People who said shit with a straight face that would make Art Bell or David Icke blush, and people who wanted pot to be legalized and didn’t give 2 shits about anything else. Rational libertarians (small-L) don’t associate with the LP. They are independents who hold their noses voting for the least offensive D or R candidate and are not swayed by easily debunked conspiracy theories.

And as for not being AGW-deniers but “skeptics” we know this is bullshit. Being skeptical of the proposed solutions is fine (I am), but being skeptical of the science at this point is garbage and only excusable for people who live under a rock. If you are ignoring the fact that your talking points have been debunked already, and you continue to spew them, you are a denier.

You so had me up until that last paragraph. Obdi didn’t post anything about anyone denying the science in his post, even though I’m certain there are AGW doubters in the club. I don’t think the denial industry is strong with the LP crowd but I’m not the one who made the accusation and failed to back it up. No one here has used any “talking points” other than the unbacked up assertion that Libertarians are AGW deniers and anti-science.

312 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:58:21pm

re: #308 Cato the Elder

Which ones are the bigger idiots?

That’s why we have elections to decide. //

313 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:58:44pm

re: #304 DaddyG

I agree with you. Lincoln agrees with you. The confederate leaders did not see it that way. The right to leave the union was seen as constitutionally protected by the states that voted to do so.

I don’t see any reason we should take what they thought into account honestly. They were wrong, according to everyone you’ve listed. Pretty much discounts their opinions. The war was started by the CSA.

314 doubter4444  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:58:44pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

The truth is: The North has been distorting the war for the last hundred years. The winners write the books, right? In order to justify the raping, pillaging, violations of property rights, carpetbagging, that took place in the 40 years following the war, they demon-ized the average southern white citizen. F_U Neil Young! Anyone, especially the so called intelligentsia that post on this blog should be aware there was a whole lot more to the war than slavery, and the complex and highly debated issues that led to the secessions.

Poor you.

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 2:58:51pm

re: #147 cgn38navy

PURE AND UTTER BS!
Virginia is continuing a long history of being at the forefront of the debate. From the founding fathers to our current Senators, Govenor, and Congressmen, Virginians of both parties have led this country and will continue to do so. LGF is getting irrational and starting to lose credibility by posting such obvious crap.

What debate is Virginia currently at the forefront of again?

316 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:00:08pm

re: #301 DaddyG

It wasn’t all so clear cut in the 1860s and the Union was the first to amass an army (vs the isolated actions of state militias) and cross over into the other side’s territory (making it a general war and not an isolated skirmish.

You miss the point. To concede that there was a boundary between two side’s territory is to concede the right of succession. For there to be a meaningful “boundary”, there would have had to be two nations. There weren’t. There was just one nation, and within that nation, the forces of its lawful government had the right to go anywhere they wanted.

317 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:00:38pm

re: #315 SanFranciscoZionist

What debate is Virginia currently at the forefront of again?

Whether or not to make America into a redneck theocracy. They are trying to overtake Texas.

318 Tigger2005  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:00:55pm

re: #23 Alouette

WTF?

My daughter just called. The flight that she and my son & his family were on had to land in Allentown PA because they ran out of fuel.

This is a Delta flight between two major airports.

Maybe the fuel gauge was reading wrong. Of course, you would think the preflight check would compare the reading of the onboard gauge to the amount of fuel actually pumped. But with thousands upon thousands of flights, can you really expect this to NEVER happen?

319 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:00:57pm

re: #316 garhighway

Sorry, I can’t hold it back anymore:

Secession! Not succession! Secession!

320 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:01:15pm

re: #152 Obdicut

Can you explain what a black Virginian is supposed to do during this month?

Chew gum, remind herself that starting smoking again is only a victory for the racists, and work on not slapping anyone.

That’s the version I’m seeing, but I’m sure there are many paths to be taken.

321 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:01:29pm

re: #319 Obdicut

Sorry, I can’t hold it back anymore:

Secession! Not succession! Secession!

you might even succeed in getting that point across :)

322 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:01:44pm

re: #154 garhighway

Be thankful the good guys won.

Oh, and show up at events in a Union uniform.

323 garhighway  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:02:12pm

re: #319 Obdicut

Sorry, I can’t hold it back anymore:

Secession! Not succession! Secession!

Sorry.

324 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:02:14pm

re: #320 SanFranciscoZionist

Chew gum, remind herself that starting smoking again is only a victory for the racists, and work on not slapping anyone.

That’s the version I’m seeing, but I’m sure there are many paths to be taken.

Don’t forget that it is your right to burn a Confederate flag.

325 Jack Burton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:02:17pm

re: #311 RogueOne

See: Cato Institute

A libertarian think tank who spends an awful lot of time trying to deny AGW for starters.

People have dropped the “volcanos produce more CO2 blahblahblah…” talking point here a couple of times already in this thread. That is a talking point that has been blown out of the water many times over as false.

326 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:02:28pm

re: #311 RogueOne

I’m sorry, Rogue, but saying there’s a debate over whether AGW is more or less important than natural factors is a statement that makes no sense whatsoever.

It reflects a basic misunderstanding of the science, either a consciously decided one or an ignorant one, but it’s still a nonsensical, unscientific position.

327 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:02:36pm

re: #313 McSpiff

I don’t see any reason we should take what they thought into account honestly. They were wrong, according to everyone you’ve listed. Pretty much discounts their opinions. The war was started by the CSA.


I’d characterize it as the confederacy set up the dominoes, dared the Union to kick them over then stuck their finger in the Union’s eye just to make sure they were paying attention.

Were they wrong. Yes. Were they on shaky constitutional ground. Yes. Did they see themselves as justified and thus “invaded” by the North. Yes.

Why is it important we understand the frame of reference of the other side even if they were wrong? So we can learn from the past and not just sit in our present time being smug and ignorant about how these things get started in the first place.

328 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:02:57pm

re: #299 Obdicut

No. This is entirely separate from cost-benefit analysis. That has to do with solutions. This has to do with what is happening in the system and why.

I am all for cost-benefit analysis, which is why I call corn biodesiel counterproductive and cap and trade practically useless.

You’re starting to confuse me. The argument you posted the link to contained a debate about the costs/benefits of spending to “battle” AGW. That isn’t an argument about science, it’s an argument about economics.

329 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:03:52pm

re: #323 garhighway

Heh. It’s easy to do. No need for apologies.

I always write “Andrew Lloyd Wright” when I mean Frank, and that is a far worse error.

330 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:05:15pm

re: #316 garhighway

You miss the point. To concede that there was a boundary between two side’s territory is to concede the right of succession. For there to be a meaningful “boundary”, there would have had to be two nations. There weren’t. There was just one nation, and within that nation, the forces of its lawful government had the right to go anywhere they wanted.


Prior to the civil was even Northerners tended to idenrify as citizens of states first and Union second. We were one country by agreement of the constitution but individual states felt they could opt out at any time. It wasn’t until after the Civil War that the supremecy of the Union was really solidified in the countries political reality.

331 palomino  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:05:17pm

re: #147 cgn38navy

PURE AND UTTER BS!
Virginia is continuing a long history of being at the forefront of the debate. From the founding fathers to our current Senators, Govenor, and Congressmen, Virginians of both parties have led this country and will continue to do so. LGF is getting irrational and starting to lose credibility by posting such obvious crap.

What debate are you talking about that VA’s leaders are at the forefront of? Whether or not to leave the Union in 1861? Whether or not to cling obsessively to symbols of the Civil War?

The debate you’re talking about was settled long ago for all but the dead enders. You seem proud to be in that group.

332 McSpiff  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:06:09pm

re: #327 DaddyG

I’d characterize it as the confederacy set up the dominoes, dared the Union to kick them over then stuck their finger in the Union’s eye just to make sure they were paying attention.

Were they wrong. Yes. Were they on shaky constitutional ground. Yes. Did they see themselves as justified and thus “invaded” by the North. Yes.

Why is it important we understand the frame of reference of the other side even if they were wrong? So we can learn from the past and not just sit in our present time being smug and ignorant about how these things get started in the first place.

I guess I just feel that saying ‘well, they really truly thought they had been invaded’ just gives more fuel to those who are already screaming about the federal government stepping on ‘state’s rights’. But I do see your point.

333 pharmmajor  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:08:02pm

re: #305 lostlakehiker

By implication you suggest that CO2 from volcanic eruptions may be a larger factor in the changing atmospheric CO2 level than human fossil fuel consumption. Is that what you meant to say?

Before answering, take your time. Read up a bit on the question. See if you can arrive at the actual answer to the question. It has an answer. Hint: the graph of CO2 level, month by month, taken in Hawaii, is amazingly regular. Every year, without exception, it goes down, and it goes up, and it ends up higher than it was the previous time last year.

Volcanoes don’t have that kind of schedule.

From the Cascade Policy Institute ([Link: www.cascadepolicy.org…]

Although current climate science has shown that the world has warmed approximately 0.6° Celsius (1.1° Fahrenheit) during the past century, half of this warming occurred before human carbon dioxide emissions could have been responsible. Humankind undoubtedly has some influence on the planet; however, the magnitude of that influence is certainly up for debate. Alarmists have unjustifiably asserted that human-produced carbon dioxide is the main cause for current global warming; yet carbon dioxide is not the most influential greenhouse gas, and humans only contribute a mere 3.2% of overall carbon dioxide in the Earth’s atmosphere.

334 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:08:18pm

re: #328 RogueOne

You’re starting to confuse me. The argument you posted the link to contained a debate about the costs/benefits of spending to “battle” AGW. That isn’t an argument about science, it’s an argument about economics.

Dear lord, Rogue, what is up with you?

The stated position that AGW may not be as important as natural factors is AGW denial. It is also a nonsensical statement, since what AGW is is the theory that anthropogenic factors are accelerating natural processes.

In addition the association with the Koch’s with the Cato institute and the American Prosperity people and their associated AGW denial is pretty hard to miss.

[Link: climateprogress.org…]

[Link: www.climatesciencewatch.org…]

[Link: energysmart.wordpress.com…]

335 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:08:28pm

re: #183 marjoriemoon

I’m totally ok with this, but don’t you think it’s a confusing message, considering what her mother’s stand is on most things?

Bristol says, “Don’t get pregnant.” Well she of all people should know that 15-16 year old don’t ever believe it will happen to them.

How does one not get pregnant? Just say no? Tell that to a horny teen.

Meanwhile she didn’t mention contraception or a woman’s right to chose so I think her message falls way short.

I also think it’s confusing as hell to have news coverage of the family playing.

336 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:08:39pm

re: #332 McSpiff

I guess I just feel that saying ‘well, they really truly thought they had been invaded’ just gives more fuel to those who are already screaming about the federal government stepping on ‘state’s rights’. But I do see your point.


I’m framing it as the viewpoint of the Confederate States and their leadership (contemporary views) not the modern understanding of the constitution and federal powers that were formed as a result of the Civil War.

It should be eminently clear to anyone living today that the Union would not have survived had we allowed slavery or secession to endure instead of a house “un”divided.

337 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:08:46pm

re: #334 Obdicut

Dear lord, Rogue, what is up with you?

The stated position that AGW may not be as important as natural factors is AGW denial. It is also a nonsensical statement, since what AGW is is the theory that anthropogenic factors are accelerating natural processes.

In addition the association with the Koch’s with the Cato institute and the American Prosperity people and their associated AGW denial is pretty hard to miss.

[Link: climateprogress.org…]

[Link: www.climatesciencewatch.org…]

[Link: energysmart.wordpress.com…]

Rock on Ob.

338 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:09:11pm

re: #333 pharmmajor

Thank you for posting more denial, so that Rogue can hopefully see how prevalent it is on the Libertarian side of things.

339 Bob Levin  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:09:13pm

re: #306 LudwigVanQuixote

You’re right. But if this activity has been going on for a long time, it might be a capital case. I think that even though there is no Sanhedrin, each of us has to try to think as if there were, and as if we might be on it. Which makes the two operative concepts: be meticulous, walk softly.

And if it’s a civil case, then there wouldn’t be a death penalty anyway—and the death penalty is for those considered evil, and we both know how infrequently that was ever used—despite the impression folks get from a simple reading of the Torah.

Not only that, how in the world do you figure restitution?

I was thinking that the harsher penalty might come because this contributes to the Blood Libel and is a chillul Hashem.

Anyway, it’s neither here nor there, the organization has been stopped, there will be a trial, and some folks are going to jail for a long time. And that’s the best we can do right now.

340 pharmmajor  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:09:17pm

re: #310 bloodstar

Generally I agree with your assessment of the current state of the Libertarian Party, but… and this may be damning with faint praise, they’re still a better choice for me IMO because they’re still better than the Current Republican party.

I’ll contribute money to the LP and I’ll even run as an LP candidate, why? because none of the parties fit my vision of smaller government as an ideal. That doesn’t mean I want to move to anarchy or move America back 150 years, it means that I think that government should be our response of last resort for a solution, not the first resort.

a great example of that is health care, we tried to use for profit corporations to build and create a health care system, but ther were too many holes. so we have medicaid medicare s-chip, and now a system in place to give everyone the opportunity to have good health care without costing themselves or myself an arm or a leg. Is that Libertarian of me to say that government is needed to intervene? probably not, but as I said, smaller government is an ideal, and ideals aren’t always practical.

We need more people willing to look at things as practical libertarians and understand the role of government.

Amen to that, my friend.

341 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:12:12pm

re: #339 Bob Levin

You’re right. But if this activity has been going on for a long time, it might be a capital case. I think that even though there is no Sanhedrin, each of us has to try to think as if there were, and as if we might be on it. Which makes the two operative concepts: be meticulous, walk softly.

And if it’s a civil case, then there wouldn’t be a death penalty anyway—and the death penalty is for those considered evil, and we both know how infrequently that was ever used—despite the impression folks get from a simple reading of the Torah.

Not only that, how in the world do you figure restitution?

I was thinking that the harsher penalty might come because this contributes to the Blood Libel and is a chillul Hashem.

Anyway, it’s neither here nor there, the organization has been stopped, there will be a trial, and some folks are going to jail for a long time. And that’s the best we can do right now.

We can also still call the evil of it evil. Also, if anyone dies from the actions involved it becomes capital period.

342 DaddyG  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:12:45pm

In other words- the same understanding of history that gives us some insight into the reasons Lee or Johnston fought for the Confederacy condemns any yahoo who declares states rights today after 150 years of an undivded Union secured by the deaths of 620,000 souls.

343 palomino  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:13:22pm

re: #137 Gus 802

On the issue of Confederate History Month, David Frum fails:

Frum’s mistake is looking at the text of the proclamation and leaving it at that. He has no understanding that the real import here is symbolic, that this is dog whistle stuff.

344 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:13:33pm

re: #200 marjoriemoon

The more I think about it, the more of an epiphany I’m having about it.

They don’t want Blacks to have Black History Month. That’s what this crap is about. Or more accurately, Blacks don’t get to have a month without “Racist History Month” just a hop/skip away.

European American Month is in October.

I know this, because my school celebrated it this year.

One of my black students pulled me aside to quietly ask if that just mean ‘white history month’. I said ‘Basically’, and she said ‘Oh. Well, OK.’

345 Bob Levin  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:14:16pm

re: #341 LudwigVanQuixote

That’s true. We can certainly call the activity evil, and it is.

346 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:17:29pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

The truth is: The North has been distorting the war for the last hundred years. The winners write the books, right? In order to justify the raping, pillaging, violations of property rights, carpetbagging, that took place in the 40 years following the war, they demon-ized the average southern white citizen. F_U Neil Young! Anyone, especially the so called intelligentsia that post on this blog should be aware there was a whole lot more to the war than slavery, and the complex and highly debated issues that led to the secessions.

Neil Young wouldn’t wipe his ass with your horseshit

347 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:18:26pm

re: #346 WindUpBird

Neil Young wouldn’t wipe his ass with your horseshit

Hee hee. That’s a great turn of phrase, birdman!

348 Bob Levin  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:21:25pm

re: #344 SanFranciscoZionist

What’s the curriculum for European American History Month? Most European Americans came here as immigrants because their original countries treated them like garbage and the voyage had a sense of ‘Good Riddance’ from the governments and the passengers.

349 palomino  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:21:38pm

re: #187 cgn38navy

The truth is: The North has been distorting the war for the last hundred years. The winners write the books, right? In order to justify the raping, pillaging, violations of property rights, carpetbagging, that took place in the 40 years following the war, they demon-ized the average southern white citizen. F_U Neil Young! Anyone, especially the so called intelligentsia that post on this blog should be aware there was a whole lot more to the war than slavery, and the complex and highly debated issues that led to the secessions.

Neil Young was spot on in his “Southern Man” criticism of white response to civil rights in the 60s south.

You can comfort yourself with “Sweet Home Alabama” all day long, but it changes neither the implicit racism of the Confederacy fetish, nor the fact that your “understanding” of the Civil War is rightly endangered.

350 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:23:00pm

re: #347 Obdicut

Hee hee. That’s a great turn of phrase, birdman!

I’m such a pottymouth :D

351 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:23:24pm

re: #334 Obdicut

Dear lord, Rogue, what is up with you?

The stated position that AGW may not be as important as natural factors is AGW denial. It is also a nonsensical statement, since what AGW is is the theory that anthropogenic factors are accelerating natural processes.

In addition the association with the Koch’s with the Cato institute and the American Prosperity people and their associated AGW denial is pretty hard to miss.

[Link: climateprogress.org…]

[Link: www.climatesciencewatch.org…]

[Link: energysmart.wordpress.com…]

Your link did not contain an argument for your initial assertion that there were a lot of AGW-deniers in the LP. Pharmmajor eventually made that argument (right after I said he hadn’t made that argument, good timing on my part).

I know there are AGW deniers in the crowd, I said that earlier, I was giving you an opportunity to update your links list to reflect your statement. Asking “Is spending trillions of dollars to save an island in the middle of the pacific from AGW” is not an attack on science, it’s an argument about economics. Your crooked-timbers link is useless, for one it lumps in the far-right newsmax with the LP. The LP has plenty of nuts on its own, it doesn’t need to be given credit for those on the left and the right.

352 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:23:43pm

re: #349 palomino

Neil Young was spot on in his “Southern Man” criticism of white response to civil rights in the 60s south.

You can comfort yourself with “Sweet Home Alabama” all day long, but it changes neither the implicit racism of the Confederacy fetish, nor the fact that your “understanding” of the Civil War is rightly endangered.

Also, Neil Young simply kicks more ass. :D


(though That Smell is a great song)

353 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:24:20pm

re: #346 WindUpBird

Neil Young wouldn’t wipe his ass with your horseshit

Skynard would have kicked his ass.

(semi-young fan, hate skynard)

354 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:25:11pm

re: #353 RogueOne

Skynard would have kicked his ass.

(semi-young fan, hate skynard)

well yeah, it’s what, five against one? ;-)

355 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:26:38pm

re: #354 WindUpBird

well yeah, it’s what, five against one? ;-)

Not anymore, i think it’s down to 2.

356 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:27:30pm

re: #348 Bob Levin

What’s the curriculum for European American History Month? Most European Americans came here as immigrants because their original countries treated them like garbage and the voyage had a sense of ‘Good Riddance’ from the governments and the passengers.

Raising awareness of how the Irish were shat on in america, that’s ok by me. But “european american month”, just sorta gives me the willies.

357 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:28:17pm

re: #355 RogueOne

Not anymore, i think it’s down to 2.

well, back in the day! But they can still affect things from the spirit realm if Ghostbusters is to be believed.

358 RogueOne  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:31:28pm

re: #354 WindUpBird

well yeah, it’s what, five against one? ;-)

Bobcat Goldthwait was on Bob and Tom years ago and gave a 3 hour interview that has to be the funniest 3 hours I’ve ever heard. He had some great stories.

He said at a show some hecklers were giving him a hard time screaming “play some skynard!” and he blew his top. He made a tasteless joke about the plane crash to shut them up before he realized the guys from Skynard were in the front row. The crowd wasn’t heckling, they were cheering. He said the guys from the band jumped up on the stage and chased him off.

359 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:34:08pm

re: #358 RogueOne

You’ve seen Louis C.K., right?

My favorite comic.

360 Bob Levin  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:34:12pm

re: #356 WindUpBird

It’s bureaucrat-speak. Lots of syllables, no poetry, and for the most part, totally unnecessary. Still, I’d really like to know the curriculum. If it focuses on the immigrant experience, crushing poverty, exploitation, all overcome by an indomitable human spirit to grow, create, and discover, all with food, laughter, and song—great course.

361 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:36:01pm

re: #358 RogueOne

Bobcat Goldthwait was on Bob and Tom years ago and gave a 3 hour interview that has to be the funniest 3 hours I’ve ever heard. He had some great stories.

He said at a show some hecklers were giving him a hard time screaming “play some skynard!” and he blew his top. He made a tasteless joke about the plane crash to shut them up before he realized the guys from Skynard were in the front row. The crowd wasn’t heckling, they were cheering. He said the guys from the band jumped up on the stage and chased him off.

hahahahah whoa! I love that guy. I’ve seen shakes the Clown like three dozen times.

362 palomino  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:36:28pm

re: #352 WindUpBird

Also, Neil Young simply kicks more ass. :D

(though That Smell is a great song)

Even when it comes to great guitar songs, LynSkyn’s “Free Bird” is no match for Young’s “Cowgirl in the Sand”.

363 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:38:13pm

re: #362 palomino

Even when it comes to great guitar songs, LynSkyn’s “Free Bird” is no match for Young’s “Cowgirl in the Sand”.

and neither of them touch Ritchie Blackmore :D

/rock nerd mode

364 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:38:55pm

re: #307 Tigger2005

Bush’s overall incompetence was terrifying.

365 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:39:13pm

re: #360 Bob Levin

It’s bureaucrat-speak. Lots of syllables, no poetry, and for the most part, totally unnecessary. Still, I’d really like to know the curriculum. If it focuses on the immigrant experience, crushing poverty, exploitation, all overcome by an indomitable human spirit to grow, create, and discover, all with food, laughter, and song—great course.

that works! My partner’s grandparents were first gen Italian immigrants. They had some stories, hooo man…

366 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:41:01pm

By the way, still waiting for someone to tell me the difference between Ayn Rand-school Objectivism, and Libertarianism.


Any takers?

367 prairiefire  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:43:18pm

Neil Young “Heart Of Gold” 1971:

Youtube Video
368 Bob Levin  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:45:07pm

re: #365 WindUpBird

It would work. But the bureaucracy of schools is overwhelming. Think about this—you can teach history two ways. One, using gunpowder and the unifying thread—which is quite common. The second, using song, food, and laughter. See which one is more effective when it comes to overcoming oppression and evil.

How can you lose with that? Here’s the headline: A Terrorist Attack Occurred in Indonesia. Terrorist used congas, a guitar, and a dented trumpet to cause dancing followed by ten minutes of stand-up material that had the crowd in stitches.

369 Bob Levin  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:45:47pm

Ach. Gunpowder AS the unifying thread.

370 Bob Levin  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 3:59:31pm

Okay, last thing before I have to go. It’s the story of a young Hugo Black that went to see Louis Armstrong play. Texas kid, sees not just a black man on stage, but a black man who was clearly a genius, whose playing moved him so much that the racism in which Black was raised just disappeared. Bink. Gone. And of course we know how the story ends—with Black on the Supreme Court voting on some of the most important Civil Rights cases in US History.

371 charles_martel  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:26:18pm

re: #318 Tigger2005

Maybe the fuel gauge was reading wrong. Of course, you would think the preflight check would compare the reading of the onboard gauge to the amount of fuel actually pumped. But with thousands upon thousands of flights, can you really expect this to NEVER happen?

Commercial IFR flights are required by law to have a minimum 45 minutes of reserve fuel. If they hit the 45 min reserve mark, they are required to land immediately. They didn’t actually run too low on fuel.

372 _RememberTonyC  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:58:49pm

re: #89 Silvergirl

Sorry RTC you’re stamped, branded, rejected. Even if you’re an independent, don’t ever think of voting for a Republican (I think the term “Repukes” was used here a little while back) because living for today and dashing into that land of change and hope is the one true path. You veer off and you’re an unadulterated homophobic quack with a confederate flag tacked up to your trailer wall. So sad for you and me. We’ve been named. Hang your head and move on.

you sound like my type :)

373 lostlakehiker  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 8:27:07pm

re: #333 pharmmajor

From the Cascade Policy Institute ([Link: www.cascadepolicy.org…]

Although current climate science has shown that the world has warmed approximately 0.6° Celsius (1.1° Fahrenheit) during the past century, half of this warming occurred before human carbon dioxide emissions could have been responsible. Humankind undoubtedly has some influence on the planet; however, the magnitude of that influence is certainly up for debate. Alarmists have unjustifiably asserted that human-produced carbon dioxide is the main cause for current global warming; yet carbon dioxide is not the most influential greenhouse gas, and humans only contribute a mere 3.2% of overall carbon dioxide in the Earth’s atmosphere.

CO2 is the second most important greenhouse gas after water vapor, and the thing about water vapor is that the concentration cannot just go higher, and higher, and higher. There’s this phenomenon called rain. You may have read about it, or even experienced it.

The atmospheric CO2 content is some 60% above its baseline preindustrial level. How, if we only contributed 3.2 percent, did that rise above baseline occur? All the volcanoes started working harder, just when our industry got going? And for a wonder, they mostly went to work in a gradual, measured way, not erupting violently or anything? That just doesn’t make sense.

You’re quoting from a source you might want to deem unworthy of placing credence in.

374 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:29:25am

re: #58 WindUpBird

While everyone likes to pile on Pelosi day after day, week after week, for being the OHNOES HOUSE LEADAR!!!, the reason I don’t like Boehner is because of the actual things he says and advocates for. Like this.

If birth control is controversial, I wonder if plastics, internal combustion engines and the idea of a magic blinking box full of tiny people that entertains you and gives you news, is that controversial as well? :D

“Abortion industry”. What a buttplug.

Boehner was a classmate of mine in college; ironically, I was involved in politics then and he wasn’t. According to classmates who knew him then, he was a buttplug at age 20 (your word, not theirs, but I like yours more). Time has not changed him.

I lived in his district for 7 elections, in one of the safest Republican districts around, and never voted for him. During his entire rise to “power” within the Republican house leadership, I kept asking, “Is this the best you can do?” It’s now wonder that I changed my registration—I simply couldn’t be associated with someone like him.

375 ClaudeMonet  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 1:47:52am

re: #353 RogueOne

Skynard would have kicked his ass.

(semi-young fan, hate skynard)

As long as we’re correcting spelling (“succession” instead of “secession” was aggravating me, too), it’s “Skynyrd”.

376 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 6:17:59am

re: #89 Silvergirl

Sorry RTC you’re stamped, branded, rejected. Even if you’re an independent, don’t ever think of voting for a Republican (I think the term “Repukes” was used here a little while back) because living for today and dashing into that land of change and hope is the one true path. You veer off and you’re an unadulterated homophobic quack with a confederate flag tacked up to your trailer wall. So sad for you and me. We’ve been named. Hang your head and move on.

By the way, the fact that 10 people down dinged you for this post says a lot. You would think that after enduring a steady stream of lectures and harangues from those who disagree with us, we are not even allowed a brief bit of commiseration time? Totally weak on the part of those who have a problem with that.

377 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 8:02:24am

re: #376 _RememberTonyC

By the way, the fact that 10 people down dinged you for this post says a lot. You would think that after enduring a steady stream of lectures and harangues from those who disagree with us, we are not even allowed a brief bit of commiseration time? Totally weak on the part of those who have a problem with that.

I’m one of the downdingers. I did not, however, participate in any stream of lectures or harangues. My ding was because I’m tired of sarcastic expressions of victimhood, such as the one Silvergirl gave. The fact that she mentioned trailers again didn’t help. Your comment that she was responding to had none of that.

378 _remembertonyc  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 8:22:51am

re: #377 wrenchwench

I’m one of the downdingers. I did not, however, participate in any stream of lectures or harangues. My ding was because I’m tired of sarcastic expressions of victimhood, such as the one Silvergirl gave. The fact that she mentioned trailers again didn’t help. Your comment that she was responding to had none of that.

wrenchwench ….. I respect you very much and think you are one of the good people on the board. I think Silvergirl was expressing certain frustrations, some in “over the top” fashion, but some are valid. You are a more “veteran” poster who can relate to “dissidents” like us more than a lot of the newer posters. Since you mostly agree with them, you may not have been as much in their crosshairs as some of us. Discussion is great, as long as “give and take” is part of the process. Preachiness (which you do not indulge in) is tiresome and when someone (again, not you) tells me they can’t take my opinion seriously, I become annoyed. I am not a flamethrower, but I am “off the reservation” to many on the board. So Silvergirl gets a pass from me because (in spite of the hyperbole) I can relate to where she is coming from.

379 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 9:20:05am

re: #378 _remembertonyc

OK, you give her a pass, and I’ll give you a pass.

:)

380 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Apr 8, 2010 12:00:20pm

re: #379 wrenchwench

OK, you give her a pass, and I’ll give you a pass.

:)

DEAL :)


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