Indiana Planned Parenthood Clinics Forced to Turn Away Medicaid Patients

The Republican Party’s total war on women’s rights
US News • Views: 38,355

In Indiana, one of the nation’s most restrictive and backward anti-abortion laws has just been signed by Gov. Mitch Daniels, and a provision of the law that took effect this week also blocks Medicaid funding for Planned Parenthood. Note that Planned Parenthood is already prohibited from using federal funds for abortions — so this measure is targeted against contraception and general health services, not abortions.

So this week, Planned Parenthood was forced by the Republican Party to start denying health services to thousands of low-income women and men.

INDIANAPOLIS – Thousands of low-income Planned Parenthood of Indiana patients were left fending for themselves Tuesday to pay for birth control, breast exams, Pap tests and other medical services while a court battle continued over a new state law that eliminated the organization’s Medicaid funding.

Planned Parenthood began turning away Medicaid patients who couldn’t pay for its medical services Tuesday, one day after private donations that had paid those patients’ bills ran out.

A state law that took effect May 10 denied Planned Parenthood the Medicaid funds it uses to pay for general health services it provides to low-income women at its 28 Indiana clinics. The group is seeking a preliminary injunction to block Indiana’s law, and a ruling is expected by July 1.

As Planned Parenthood awaits that ruling, the group said about 9,300 Medicaid patients — both women and men enrolled in the state-federal health insurance program for low-income and disabled people — are now facing “disrupted” medical services under the state’s law.

Related
Obama Administration Rejects Indiana’s Ban on Medicaid at Planned Parenthood

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346 comments
1 Bulworth  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:13:56am

I'm sure this is all just about Freedom and focusing like a laser beam on the economy and jobs.

/

2 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:14:15am

Obviously this has to be part of the jobs, jobs, jobs that the Republicans campaigned about in 2010.

3 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:17:04am

I got nothing but absolute disgust over this right now. I'm afraid that anything that I would type would have my account actioned, so I'll just say this in simple terms:

Fuck the GOP, bunch of misogynistic, pro-suffering ****.

4 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:17:42am

a fucking witch hunt is what it is

5 makeitstop  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:17:47am

Words fail.

6 Henchman 25  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:19:46am

The GOP: Turning back the clock several hundred years.

7 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:20:21am

doesn't sound legal to me....if it isn't then why isn't the JDept all over this shit?

8 blueraven  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:21:21am

All this as republicans bail on the deficit reduction efforts. Its not enough to defund PP and other worthy programs. We must keep giving tax breaks for the wealthy, destroy as many public sector jobs as possible, and by all means keep sex education, contaception out of the hands of those who most need it.

Sounds like a wonderful plan, no? /

9 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:22:02am

Kansas’ last three abortion clinics could be shut down


Due to new regulations drafted by Kansas officials, the state’s last three operating abortion clinics could be closed down — making Kansas the first state to have absolutely no abortion access.

According to the Associated Press, “the top executive for Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid Missouri said he’s concerned imposing the new regulations so quickly will force all three clinics to shut down.”

The Kansas Department of Health and Environment has until July to decide whether or not they will give the clinics, which include a Planned Parenthood clinic, the licenses they need to operate.

10 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:22:14am

Well, we wouldn't need PP in the first place if all those damn sinners wouldn't be having sex, right?

/

11 shades  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:23:08am

I heard on Fox News they could all go to Walgreen's.

12 makeitstop  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:23:27am

re: #8 blueraven

All this as republicans bail on the deficit reduction efforts. Its not enough to defund PP and other worthy programs. We must keep giving tax breaks for the wealthy, destroy as many public sector jobs as possible, and by all means keep sex education, contaception out of the hands of those who most need it.

Sounds like a wonderful plan, no? /

They're compelled to take a hammer to the social and economic infrastructure of this country, and they're not going to be satisfied until they break it beyond repair.

And then they'll blame Democrats.

13 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:23:29am

re: #10 JasonA

Well, we wouldn't need PP in the first place if all those damn sinners wouldn't be having sex, right?

/

Maybe if we encourage more gay sex, we could eliminate Planned Parenthood all together!

14 Bulworth  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:23:31am
Note that Planned Parenthood is already prohibited from using federal funds for abortions — so this measure is targeted against contraception and general health services, not abortions.

In a somewhat sane, reality based political world, this point would receive some attention. But in our actual political world, our chattering classes will probably just use it as one more excuse to praise yet another Republican governor for making the "hard choices". Sigh.

15 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:23:36am

While abortion is the headliner, it's important to note that the real objective is nullifying if not overturning Griswold. How DARE people purchase and use contraceptives.

16 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:23:47am

the feds should just step in and take over PP...invade

17 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:26:21am

Well, this is absolutely deplorable, and I think progressive lobby groups that advertise should focus their attention on this stuff like a laser beam. Let Obama actually deal with Economy and stay on message. But make sure that the word gets out to independents that voting for the GOP in this day and age is a ticket back to another age and era that most rational beings thought (happily)we had left behind.

18 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:26:47am

re: #16 albusteve

the feds should just step in and take over PP...invade

Huh?

You want to nationalize Planned Parenthood, of all things?

19 makeitstop  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:27:33am

re: #18 JasonA

Huh?

You want to nationalize Planned Parenthood, of all things?

Imagine the shitstorm that would ensue.

20 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:27:51am

re: #15 kirkspencer

I grew up around and still remain around many fervent anti-abortion people. It's definitely not true that all want to roll back Griswold's right to privacy/contraceptive access, and anecdotally I don't even think it's most. Maybe if you forced them to think through all the legal ramifications of Griswold and Roe, etc, they would agree, but it's not the motivating factor.

Granted, this is coming from a protestant point of view, things are obviously very different on the Catholic side of the tracks.

21 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:28:37am

re: #18 JasonA

Huh?

You want to nationalize Planned Parenthood, of all things?

why not?...it's getting the shit beat out of it so bad it cannot function...sooner or later the feds will have to do something, probably via a long slow grind to the SC

22 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:28:47am

I expect that it won't be too long before they defund any medical facility that is affiliated with any non christian religion.

23 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:28:55am

Wisconsin to defund Planned Parenthood, joins Indiana, Kansas and North Carolina

Republican Gov. Scott Walker is expected to sign off on a state budget that would eliminate federal and state funding to nine of the state's 27 Planned Parenthood centers by the end of the month.

Wisconsin will join Indiana, Kansas and North Carolina in passing similar legislation. Each cut funding to the health care and abortion provider earlier this year.

The state's Legislature passed the $66 billion budget on June 16. That includes a $1 million cut to Planned Parenthood. All the Republicans and one independant voted in favor of the plan while all the Democrats opposed it.

Republican state Sen. Glenn Grothman argued that the new budget doesn't cut enough funding from Planned Parenthood.

"There's a very ugly side to this organization, and I regret that they're going to take such a tiny cut in this budget," Grothman said.

24 General Nimrod Bodfish  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:29:17am

This is only a small part of what the country would look like if the current crop of GOP gets into power: oppression of women and minorities and legalized bigotry over anything that isn't part of their chosen religion, and carte-blanche for corporations to destroy the environment and run rough-shod over the working class.

25 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:29:31am

The "Gov't funded abortion mills" meme get's pressed hard on many televangelist programs. It's high time we start taxing their profits.

26 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:29:42am

re: #21 albusteve

why not?...it's getting the shit beat out of it so bad it cannot function...sooner or later the feds will have to do something, probably via a long slow grind to the SC

Although then it wouldn't be able to offer abortions at all.

Hey, you might be onto something...

27 JeffM70  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:30:07am

You gotta love it when a plan comes together. Kinda like what's going on with the immigration law in Georgia.

Your text to link...

28 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:30:31am

re: #25 Slumbering Behemoth

The "Gov't funded abortion mills" meme get's pressed hard on many televangelist programs. It's high time we start taxing their profits.

NINETY PERCENT!!11!!

29 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:31:28am

re: #25 Slumbering Behemoth

The "Gov't funded abortion mills" meme get's pressed hard on many televangelist programs. It's high time we start taxing their profits.

I'd be thrilled if tax-exempt status were immediately revoked from any religious institution that has ever given money. We don't need government funded religion, and I say that as someone dedicated to my religion!

30 Opal  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:31:52am

re: #15 kirkspencer

Exactly! These people are going after contraception, not abortion. Women having sex for pleasure is a great sin in their eyes. Women who can have sex for pleasure without having to reproduce won't want to marry men. Men will lose *control of women.

31 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:32:19am

re: #26 JasonA

Although then it wouldn't be able to offer abortions at all.

Hey, you might be onto something...

no, the rules on fed monies would remain as they are...clearly this is not about abortion, it's about power...when funding is cut, where did that money come from?

32 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:32:21am

re: #26 JasonA

Although then it wouldn't be able to offer abortions at all.

Hey, you might be onto something...

Death panels for your baby! Govt mandated abortions!

33 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:32:26am

re: #27 JeffM70

You gotta love it when a plan comes together. Kinda like what's going on with the immigration law in Georgia.

Your text to link...

I get the schadenfreude, I really do. But then I remember that this will result in lots of unwanted pregnancies and probably breast and cervical cancer.

34 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:32:31am

re: #20 gehazi

I grew up around and still remain around many fervent anti-abortion people. It's definitely not true that all want to roll back Griswold's right to privacy/contraceptive access, and anecdotally I don't even think it's most. Maybe if you forced them to think through all the legal ramifications of Griswold and Roe, etc, they would agree, but it's not the motivating factor.

Granted, this is coming from a protestant point of view, things are obviously very different on the Catholic side of the tracks.

it may not be true that they all personally want to do that, but their leaders do, the evangelical-pandering GOP politicians they vote for, the evangelical movers and shakers, absolutely want to demonize contraception and family planning

35 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:33:30am

Repeal the Hyde Amendment.

36 JeffM70  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:33:37am

re: #33 JasonA

It's like the columnist said about the Georgia law, it would be funny if it weren't so sad.

37 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:34:16am

Easy fix--single payer health care. Then PP becomes an educational advocacy group.

38 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:35:03am

re: #20 gehazi

I grew up around and still remain around many fervent anti-abortion people. It's definitely not true that all want to roll back Griswold's right to privacy/contraceptive access, and anecdotally I don't even think it's most. Maybe if you forced them to think through all the legal ramifications of Griswold and Roe, etc, they would agree, but it's not the motivating factor.

Granted, this is coming from a protestant point of view, things are obviously very different on the Catholic side of the tracks.

Some of them object to only certain forms of birth control, calling them abortifacients.

39 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:35:08am

re: #37 Decatur Deb

Easy fix--single payer health care. Then PP becomes an educational advocacy group.

COMMUNIST!1!11!1!
/

40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:36:08am

re: #33 JasonA

I get the schadenfreude, I really do. But then I remember that this will result in lots of unwanted pregnancies and probably breast and cervical cancer.

I think for this country to even begin to change its ways and mend the damage it is doing to itself, we may need to see an entire state or two collapse into total ruin, something America can't ignore


Maybe it'll be Georgia! Who knows

41 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:36:16am

re: #28 JasonA

Well, I wouldn't go that far.

re: #29 gehazi

I'd say that if you're using public airwaves to sell services or products, or to solicit donations for the promotion of ideas and ideals designed to affect or influence public policy, you should have to pay taxes.

42 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:36:24am

re: #38 wrenchwench

Some of them object to only certain forms of birth control, calling them abortifacients.

As long as they had the power, the RC church kept condoms illegal in Ireland.

43 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:37:11am

re: #20 gehazi

I grew up around and still remain around many fervent anti-abortion people. It's definitely not true that all want to roll back Griswold's right to privacy/contraceptive access, and anecdotally I don't even think it's most. Maybe if you forced them to think through all the legal ramifications of Griswold and Roe, etc, they would agree, but it's not the motivating factor.

Granted, this is coming from a protestant point of view, things are obviously very different on the Catholic side of the tracks.

Ah? Ask them about sex education in school. Do they prefer none, abstinence only, or full spectrum?

And in fact you should probably ask them the direct question - not griswold, but "should contraceptives continue to be over the counter goods anyone can purchse?"

Betcha you get a waffle, and something along the lines of needing at least SOME control.

44 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:37:25am

re: #40 WindUpBird

I think for this country to even begin to change its ways and mend the damage it is doing to itself, we may need to see an entire state or two collapse into total ruin, something America can't ignore

Maybe it'll be Georgia! Who knows

my guess would be either CA or Il....their problems are dire

45 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:37:30am

re: #42 Decatur Deb

As long as they had the power, the RC church kept condoms illegal in Ireland.

Fight the power!

46 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:37:50am

re: #41 Slumbering Behemoth

Well, I wouldn't go that far.

re: #29 gehazi

I'd say that if you're using public airwaves to sell services or products, or to solicit donations for the promotion of ideas and ideals designed to affect or influence public policy, you should have to pay taxes.

I'd like to see the property taxes due on a megachurch.

47 Virginia Plain  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:38:31am

re: #45 wrenchwench

Fight the power!

No, it's "fight the real enemy". That's from the SNL broadcast when Sinead O'Connor ripped up a picture of Pope John Paul II.

48 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:38:49am

re: #34 WindUpBird

re: #38 wrenchwench

These groups are definitely growing in influence, but they still seem to be mostly a minority with the evangelical community. Yes, people will quibble over various forms of birth control, but the bickering has its roots in a heavy concern that it not be "like abortion," not that contraception is morally wrong.

I know about the quiverfulls, etc (I think a sister in law is big into that movement), but from my point of view it's not yet the dominant point of view. Most people I know that are anti-abortion haven't really thought much about contraception, and would be pissed if someone told them they needed to disavow it altogether.

49 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:38:51am

re: #43 kirkspencer

And in fact you should probably ask them the direct question - not griswold, but "should contraceptives continue to be over the counter goods anyone can purchse?"

Betcha you get a waffle, and something along the lines of needing at least SOME control.

Is that like the sponge?

50 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:39:35am

re: #30 Opal

Not just contraception either, but all general health services related to reproduction, as well as certain cancer detection/prevention services.

51 brennant  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:39:38am

re: #49 wrenchwench

Is that like the sponge?

I think Elaine has those stashed in her closet.

/

52 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:39:41am

GOP walks out of deficit negotiations

Vice President Joe Biden's deficit reduction talks imploded today after the only two Republicans involved in the negotiations announced they are halting their participation because of their objections to Democratic demands for "tax increases."

Democrats meanwhile, suggested Republicans are "playing with fire" by holding up a vote on raising the debt ceiling.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor announced this morning that he would skip today's scheduled meeting because "Democrats continue to insist that any deal must include tax increases."

53 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:40:33am

re: #46 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'd like to see the property taxes due on a megachurch.

just to see what's in their books would probably blow your mind

54 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:40:45am

re: #48 gehazi


I know about the quiverfulls, etc

I hadn't heard of them until now. Am I the only one who thinks that sounds awfully phallic?

55 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:42:08am

re: #48 gehazi

These groups are definitely growing in influence, but they still seem to be mostly a minority with the evangelical community. Yes, people will quibble over various forms of birth control, but the bickering has its roots in a heavy concern that it not be "like abortion," not that contraception is morally wrong.

I know about the quiverfulls, etc (I think a sister in law is big into that movement), but from my point of view it's not yet the dominant point of view. Most people I know that are anti-abortion haven't really thought much about contraception, and would be pissed if someone told them they needed to disavow it altogether.

When I see the incessant march these people are on, and the string of victories they've had just this year, it makes me push back on any attempts to minimize the threat. They have momentum. I am losing.

56 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:42:41am

re: #53 albusteve

just to see what's in their books would probably blow your mind

Or turn my stomach.

Probably both.

57 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:42:51am

re: #48 gehazi

re: #38 wrenchwench

These groups are definitely growing in influence, but they still seem to be mostly a minority with the evangelical community. Yes, people will quibble over various forms of birth control, but the bickering has its roots in a heavy concern that it not be "like abortion," not that contraception is morally wrong.

I know about the quiverfulls, etc (I think a sister in law is big into that movement), but from my point of view it's not yet the dominant point of view. Most people I know that are anti-abortion haven't really thought much about contraception, and would be pissed if someone told them they needed to disavow it altogether.

No. About half the anti-abortion effort is Catholic, and all "non-natural"
(i.e. except rhythm and abstinence) is still forbidden. The rule is ignored enough to make the class-adjusted birthrates for US Catholics and Protestants about the same.

58 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:43:51am

re: #43 kirkspencer

I'll grant that if I asked around I would get more than a few: "contraception should only be available for married couples." Like I said, some might go that way when pressed, but they aren't upset about it or doing political advocacy about it.

There are groups that want to demonize sex-for-pleasure entirely, and perhaps it's even more widespread among the politically connected (I tune out most of that (Dobson, etc.) because it will enrage me to no end), but from an insider's point of view it's not a dominant perspective.

59 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:44:03am

If all the brightest minds in Harrisburg’s government can’t solve the city’s financial problems, maybe God can.

That seems to be the thinking in Pennsylvania’s capital city, where Mayor Linda Thompson and a host of other religious leaders are about to embark on a three-day fast and prayer campaign to cure the city’s daunting money woes.

these are the sorts that want to rule over your personal life...first degree wacktards...just bizarre

[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

60 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:44:27am

re: #54 JasonA

I know about the quiverfulls, etc

I hadn't heard of them until now. Am I the only one who thinks that sounds awfully phallic?

I think it's intentional. *shudders*

61 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:45:21am

re: #57 Decatur Deb

I said upthread that I was speaking exclusively from a non-catholic point of view.

62 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:47:14am

re: #56 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Or turn my stomach.

Probably both.

missions (resorts) in foreign countries...
a litany of conferences at the Ritz...
travel and expense accts that rival Exxon...
private schools and grants to the chosen...
blah blah

63 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:48:27am

re: #58 gehazi

I'll grant that if I asked around I would get more than a few: "contraception should only be available for married couples." Like I said, some might go that way when pressed, but they aren't upset about it or doing political advocacy about it.

There are groups that want to demonize sex-for-pleasure entirely, and perhaps it's even more widespread among the politically connected (I tune out most of that (Dobson, etc.) because it will enrage me to no end), but from an insider's point of view it's not a dominant perspective.

You just removed your credibility on the topic. The politically connected are the ones who are doing this. Doesn't matter that their followers don't care so much. Obviously they are not objecting.

You don't have an insider's point of view.

64 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:48:32am

Weird - I just noticed that the 'Online' counter was suddenly increasing, so I checked one of my traffic analysis tools and discovered that we were getting crawled by some kind of botnet that seems to be originating in colleges around the nation. Since the bots were ignoring the Crawl-delay setting in robots.txt, I blocked most of them. I wonder what's up.

65 blueraven  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:50:05am

re: #59 albusteve

If all the brightest minds in Harrisburg’s government can’t solve the city’s financial problems, maybe God can.

That seems to be the thinking in Pennsylvania’s capital city, where Mayor Linda Thompson and a host of other religious leaders are about to embark on a three-day fast and prayer campaign to cure the city’s daunting money woes.

these are the sorts that want to rule over your personal life...first degree wacktards...just bizarre

[Link: www.cnbc.com...]

Add Governor Perry to the list with his Prayer day in Houston this coming August.

“Given the trials that beset our nation and world, from the global economic downturn to natural disasters, the lingering danger of terrorism and continued debasement of our culture, I believe it is time to convene the leaders from each of our United States in a day of prayer and fasting, like that described in the Book of Joel,” Perry said. “I urge all Americans of faith to pray on that day for the healing of our country, the rebuilding of our communities and the restoration of enduring values as our guiding force.”

Perry has partnered with the American Family Association and leaders of the Christian restoration movement to organize the free event. It has been in the works since December, according to Eric Bearse, a former Perry staffer and spokesman for the AFA, a Christian group that promotes conservative positions on moral issues and opposes homosexuality, urging supporters to boycott promoters of what it calls the “homosexual agenda.”


Read more: [Link: www.mysanantonio.com...]

66 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:50:05am

re: #64 Charles

Weird - I just noticed that the 'Online' counter was suddenly increasing, so I checked one of traffic analysis tools and discovered that we were getting crawled by some kind of botnet that seems to be originating in colleges around the nation. Since the bots were ignoring the Crawl-delay setting in robots.txt, I blocked most of them. I wonder what's up.

lulzsec?

67 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:50:09am

re: #59 albusteve


That seems to be the thinking in Pennsylvania’s capital city, where Mayor Linda Thompson and a host of other religious leaders are about to embark on a three-day fast and prayer campaign to cure the city’s daunting money woes.

Boy I really hope they don't also do a sweat Lodge thing too.

68 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:51:17am

re: #62 albusteve

missions (resorts) in foreign countries...
a litany of conferences at the Ritz...
travel and expense accts that rival Exxon...
private schools and grants to the chosen...
blah blah

Organized religion is snake oil.

69 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:51:19am

my general ambivalence toward all things religious, slowly turned to revulsion, and now I'm on the fast track to becoming a hater myself...now I'm a victim...swell, thanks alot you high handed assholes

70 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:51:58am

I had never heard of the Quiverfulls either but my evangelical part of the family believes the same things they do even though they are not an actual part of the movement.

'Womb Is A Powerful Weapon'

That's also the hope of Nancy Campbell, a leader of the Quiverfull movement and author of Be Fruitful and Multiply.

"The womb is such a powerful weapon; it's a weapon against the enemy," Campbell says.

Campbell has 35 grandchildren. She and her husband stopped at six kids, and it is her great regret.

"I think, help! Imagine if we had had more of these children!" Campbell says, adding, "My greatest impact is through my children. The more children I have, the more ability I have to impact the world for God."

A Christian God, that is. Campbell says if believers don't starting reproducing in large numbers, biblical Christianity will lose its voice.

"We look across the Islamic world and we see that they are outnumbering us in their family size, and they are in many places and many countries taking over those nations, without a jihad, just by multiplication," Campbell says.

Still, Quiverfull is a small group, probably 10,000 fast-growing families, mainly in the Midwest and South. But they have large ambitions, says Kathryn Joyce, who has written about the movement in her book Quiverfull: Inside The Christian Patriarchy Movement.

"They speak about, 'If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we'll be able to do,' " Joyce says. " 'We'll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we'll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will.' "

71 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:53:41am

re: #44 albusteve

my guess would be either CA or Il...their problems are dire

I could see CA fragmenting into a giant mess

72 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:53:46am

re: #69 albusteve

my general ambivalence toward all things religious, slowly turned to revulsion, and now I'm on the fast track to becoming a hater myself...now I'm a victim...swell, thanks alot you high handed assholes

Just embrace supposedly "fictional" deities, you'll feel better.

Can I provide you with a pamphlet for Crom, Khorne, or the Emperor?

73 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:53:55am

re: #70 Cankles McCellulite

That last paragraph was a real winner.

74 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:53:57am

re: #64 Charles

New college program "Fact Checking 101: Asses and Their Endurance".

75 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:54:01am

re: #63 wrenchwench

Excuse me? My point is that within the evangelical religious community (there are plenty of people who don't much care about politics other than: vote GOP) anti-contraception fervor is not all the rage.

Yes there are some who promote this, and yes they probably have more influence the more involved in politics you go, and yes it should be fought against. I was trying to provide some background information on the so-called rank-and-file.

Political advocacy that pointed out how top level GOPers are trying to destroy all contraceptive rights would definitely gain traction in the communities I describe.

76 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:54:52am

re: #58 gehazi

I'll grant that if I asked around I would get more than a few: "contraception should only be available for married couples." Like I said, some might go that way when pressed, but they aren't upset about it or doing political advocacy about it.

There are groups that want to demonize sex-for-pleasure entirely, and perhaps it's even more widespread among the politically connected (I tune out most of that (Dobson, etc.) because it will enrage me to no end), but from an insider's point of view it's not a dominant perspective.

So you agree they would like to see it restricted, but you disagree they want it restricted. Further, you agree that among those who actively oppose abortion more likely to want it revoked instead of merely restricted.

But the anti-abortion side doesn't really want to roll back Griswold?

77 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:54:55am

This, folks, is what religion is all about. To the religious, the suffering of these poor people is the example to be set when getting to the afterlife.

78 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:55:49am

I don't understand the willingness of politicians to engage in organized prayer days, or retreats. To me, it is a complete admission of inadequacy for the task they have or the job they hold. If God is the answer why bother with politicians. They are merely another apparently irrelevant layer.

79 Winny Spencer  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:55:52am

I might be awful for laughing out loud at this:

Limbaugh Revives "Sex-retary Of State" Label For Hillary Clinton

80 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:56:06am

re: #69 albusteve

my general ambivalence toward all things religious, slowly turned to revulsion, and now I'm on the fast track to becoming a hater myself...now I'm a victim...swell, thanks alot you high handed assholes

Religion has a function (several, actually) and it can't be supplanted until you have something as effective to replace it. The Soviets tried, with very mixed results.

81 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:56:27am

re: #72 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Just embrace supposedly "fictional" deities, you'll feel better.

Can I provide you with a pamphlet for Crom, Khorne, or the Emperor?

I say we try to revive dead religions. I start building the shrine to Bacchus post haste.

82 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:56:31am

re: #76 kirkspencer

I was trying to say (not well perhaps) that rank-and-file evangelicals don't much care about Griswold.

83 Prideful, Arrogant Marriage Equality Advocate  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:57:08am

re: #73 JasonA

Isn't it. I am not trying to defend them, but my MIL really believes she is doing good and kind work by helping to turn America into a theocracy. She believes the fundamentalists are saving the sinners and non Christians from themselves.

84 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:57:19am

re: #77 lazardo

This, folks, is what religion is all about. To the religious, the suffering of these poor people is the example to be set when getting to the afterlife.

To put it bluntly, fuck that.

Assuming there is a deity, shouldn't providing decent care to your fellow man be a basic tenet? Assuming there isn't a deity, why make someone suffer needlessly when one life is all you get?

85 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:58:32am

re: #81 JasonA

I say we try to revive dead religions. I start building the shrine to Bacchus post haste.

Get your goat leggings yet?

86 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:58:43am

re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To put it bluntly, fuck that.

Assuming there is a deity, shouldn't providing decent care to your fellow man be a basic tenet? Assuming there isn't a deity, why make someone suffer needlessly when one life is all you get?

Where I live, the deity's philosophy is "go forth and multiply."

And not in the so-called reinterpretation that they meant convert those of other religions (though obviously the sword is always ready for that.)

87 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:59:10am

re: #77 lazardo

This, folks, is what religion is all about. To the religious, the suffering of these poor people is the example to be set when getting to the afterlife.

This is a ridiculously broad brush. Most people outright ignore it, but the Tanakh, the New Testament, and the Qu'ran (and I'm positive most eastern religious documents too) spend a lot of time talking about the necessity of caring for the poor and oppressed.

88 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 11:59:19am

re: #80 Decatur Deb

Religion has a function (several, actually) and it can't be supplanted until you have something as effective to replace it. The Soviets tried, with very mixed results.

I don't give a damn about being supplanted...I just want them out of my face....it's fundamentally wrong and anti-American, veiled totalitarianism

89 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:00:03pm

re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To put it bluntly, fuck that.

Assuming there is a deity, shouldn't providing decent care to your fellow man be a basic tenet? Assuming there isn't a deity, why make someone suffer needlessly when one life is all you get?

Because some people need other people to validate their own beliefs.

90 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:00:34pm

re: #82 gehazi

I was trying to say (not well perhaps) that rank-and-file evangelicals don't much care about Griswold.

nor do they seem to give a shit what their political leaders are doing...that's the point

91 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:01:52pm

re: #88 albusteve

I don't give a damn about being supplanted...I just want them out of my face...it's fundamentally wrong and anti-American, veiled totalitarianism

Sometimes veiled, occasionally a sheitel, and often just poofy blonde hair and lots of make up.

92 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:02:40pm

re: #86 lazardo

Where I live, the deity's philosophy is "go forth and multiply."

And not in the so-called reinterpretation that they meant convert those of other religions (though obviously the sword is always ready for that.)

Speaking of religion fucking over everyone else, is contraception still illegal in you neck of the woods?

93 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:03:11pm

re: #87 gehazi

This is a ridiculously broad brush. Most people outright ignore it, but the Tanakh, the New Testament, and the Qu'ran (and I'm positive most eastern religious documents too) spend a lot of time talking about the necessity of caring for the poor and oppressed.

Yeah, look how much good that did for Africa.

94 BongCrodny  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:04:14pm

re: #65 blueraven

Add Governor Perry to the list with his Prayer day in Houston this coming August.


Read more: [Link: www.mysanantonio.com...]


"...continued debasement of our culture" is one hell of a frightening statement.

95 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:05:18pm

re: #92 JasonA

Speaking of religion fucking over everyone else, is contraception still illegal in you neck of the woods?

How can I put it this way, "yes and no."

You could go to a drug store and buy them (and you can even get condoms from a 7-11), but they are de facto frowned upon.

The "no" bit comes from the fact that several parts of the country ban artificial birth control outright. While the wording is rather vague, most hospitals comply rather than face the wrath of (the local messengers of) God.

96 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:05:42pm

re: #90 albusteve

nor do they seem to give a shit what their political leaders are doing...that's the point

If you want my agreement that most evangelicals are ludicrously ignorant of what those who would speak for them advocate for (and most especialy the consequences of those policies)...well you have it to the point of weeping. Most can't see past the "R," despite constant effort.

97 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:05:57pm

re: #75 gehazi

Excuse me? My point is that within the evangelical religious community (there are plenty of people who don't much care about politics other than: vote GOP) anti-contraception fervor is not all the rage.

Yes there are some who promote this, and yes they probably have more influence the more involved in politics you go, and yes it should be fought against. I was trying to provide some background information on the so-called rank-and-file.

Political advocacy that pointed out how top level GOPers are trying to destroy all contraceptive rights would definitely gain traction in the communities I describe.

When you say the rank and file don't care, are you trying to minimize the problem? If they really don't care, they are being used by the politically connected ones who do care. If it's true that they would object if only they knew that contraceptives are also a target of the politically connected ones, then I cannot forgive them for not knowing. Please tell them.

98 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:06:07pm

re: #94 BongCrodny

"...continued debasement of our culture" is one hell of a frightening statement.

I think "debasement of our (Texas) culture" means the sale of salsa mad in New York.

99 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:07:06pm

re: #82 gehazi

I was trying to say (not well perhaps) that rank-and-file evangelicals don't much care about Griswold.

You're missing the point. The rank and file doesn't care much about Griswold per se. However, the rank and file does care about promiscuous sex, and the rank and file tends to believe that easy access to condoms (and full spectrum sex education) encourage that promiscuity.

It's not Griswold per se, it's the perception of things Griswold permits and allows.

Much the same as abortion, when you get right down to it. "How dare you make promiscuous sex safe and inconsequential."

100 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:07:59pm

re: #97 wrenchwench

When you say the rank and file don't care, are you trying to minimize the problem? If they really don't care, they are being used by the politically connected ones who do care. If it's true that they would object if only they knew that contraceptives are also a target of the politically connected ones, then I cannot forgive them for not knowing. Please tell them.

I'm not minimizing the problem, I am telling people who will listen, and I am (more importantly) trying to get people to realize there is even another legitimate side to listen to.

101 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:08:39pm

re: #77 lazardo

This, folks, is what religion is all about. To the religious, the suffering of these poor people is the example to be set when getting to the afterlife.

Salve Regina

Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy,
our life, our sweetness and our hope.
To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve;
to thee do we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in this valley of tears.

Turn then, most gracious advocate,
thine eyes of mercy toward us;
and after this our exile,
show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.

102 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:09:00pm

Another update on this guy: Feds: Reservist Recorded Himself Shooting At Marine Corps Museum

Federal prosecutors charged Melaku on Thursday with destruction of property and firearms violations in the Eastern District of Virginia. He's accused of shooting at the Marine Corps museum two times as well as the Pentagon, a Marine Corps recruiting sub-station in Chantilly and a Coast Guard recruiting office in Woodbridge between Oct. 17 and Nov. 2.

Authorities said in an affidavit that they found bomb-making and explosives documents on Melaku's computer, according to a preliminary FBI review. They also found a digital video tape of one of the shootings in his desk.

103 BongCrodny  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:11:32pm

re: #98 Decatur Deb

I think "debasement of our (Texas) culture" means the sale of salsa mad in New York.


Heh. If Perry is elected President, "deep fried" becomes the national cuisine.

104 blueraven  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:12:42pm

re: #94 BongCrodny

"...continued debasement of our culture" is one hell of a frightening statement.

Part of Operation "enduring values" I suppose. /

The man is scary. He has no business leading a state, much less being considered as a possible candidate for POTUS.

105 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:13:18pm

re: #101 negativ

Salve Regina

Well, yes and no. Those are nice words written in 11th century Europe which was not a very nice place for poor people or non-Christians.

106 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:13:59pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Another update on this guy: Feds: Reservist Recorded Himself Shooting At Marine Corps Museum

a complete moron...provides all the evidence for his mini jihad, then walks into the arms of the authorities

107 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:14:53pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

Well, yes and no. Those are nice words written in 11th century Europe which was not a very nice place for poor people or non-Christians.

There has (unfortunately) almost always been a disconnect between how Jews/Christians/Muslims say they should behave towards the downtrodden and how the majority actually behave.

108 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:16:11pm

re: #100 gehazi

I'm not minimizing the problem, I am telling people who will listen, and I am (more importantly) trying to get people to realize there is even another legitimate side to listen to.

From your #48:

These groups are definitely growing in influence, but they still seem to be mostly a minority with the evangelical community.

From your #58:

I'll grant that if I asked around I would get more than a few: "contraception should only be available for married couples." Like I said, some might go that way when pressed, but they aren't upset about it or doing political advocacy about it.

From your #96:

If you want my agreement that most evangelicals are ludicrously ignorant of what those who would speak for them advocate for (and most especialy the consequences of those policies)...well you have it to the point of weeping.

I appreciate your attempts. If you're going to help those people, you're going to need to know as much as you can about what they really think. Good luck.

109 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:16:26pm

re: #99 kirkspencer

You are correct. I'll just say that full sex-ed motivates a helluva lot more people than easy-access to condoms.

110 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:17:00pm

Isn't it always interesting how eager the supposed "patriots" who preach all day long about individual rights and "big government" are to don their favorite jackboots and trample all over the rights of others? How they all claim to be avid fans of the Constitution upon which our republic was founded, but always miss that part about "shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" when declaring that a medical procedure be made illegal on the grounds that their religion considers life to begin at conception?

Why, you'd almost think they liked the very style of government they profess to hate...

111 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:17:24pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

Well, yes and no. Those are nice words written in 11th century Europe which was not a very nice place for poor people or non-Christians.

Unlike, say, the "flexible" Constitution of the United States, Holy Scripture was written specifically for the times they were written. The idea that such Scripture should be interpreted as something less tolerant than what it intended to mean (contradictions and all) would literally be heresy.

112 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:17:26pm

Antievolution bills on the New Hampshire horizon

Antievolution bills are on the horizon in New Hampshire. Included on a list (PDF) of legislative service requests dated June 14, 2011, are two requests to have antievolution bills drafted for the 2012 legislative session. LSR 2012-H-2176-R, submitted by Jerry Bergevin (R-District 17), asks for a bill "requiring the teaching of evolution in public schools as a theory"; LSR 2012-H-2320-R, submitted by Gary Hopper (R-District 7), asks for a bill "requiring instruction in intelligent design in the public schools."

113 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:20:01pm

re: #110 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds


Why, you'd almost think they liked the very style of government they profess to hate...

Rep. Duncan Hunter: “I Would Love A Conservative Dictatorship”

“I would love a conservative dictatorship,” said Hunter, “where we can dictate everything.” Hunter made his comment while discussing budget cuts and a government shut down.

114 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:20:43pm

re: #108 wrenchwench

Thanks. I prefer to think of myself as working at the grassroots level, broadening the political horizons of one individual at time (and especially the youth!).

There's not much I personally can do to fight the Dobsons and Fischers of the world, beyond steering people away from their material. I think that's where some of the disconnect is coming from in this conversation: I'm more concerned with the lives and beliefs of everyday people because it's where I am and what I can do.

There are other people better suited to me to outright fight the political elites, and they will continue to have my full support.

115 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:21:32pm

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I do enjoy it when the masks come off.

116 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:21:48pm

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'd bring out my so-called "broad brush," but as I keep saying, they're having too much fun painting themselves over with it.

117 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:21:57pm

re: #112 Slumbering Behemoth

Antievolution bills on the New Hampshire horizon

/facepalm

118 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:22:47pm

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Holy cognitive dissonance Batman!

Dictatorships are in direct opposition to individual responsibility and self determination.

119 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:23:37pm

re: #70 Cankles McCellulite

"They speak about, 'If everyone starts having eight children or 12 children, imagine in three generations what we'll be able to do,' " Joyce says. " 'We'll be able to take over both halls of Congress, we'll be able to reclaim sinful cities like San Francisco for the faithful, and we'll be able to wage very effective massive boycotts against companies that are going against God's will.' "

They will have to contend with the Jewterati, who not only breed, but also educate!

120 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:23:49pm

The flotilla is coming, the flotilla is coming.

European and North American activists, journalists, and mercenaries have set sail—or are about to do so—on fifteen boats with passengers from twenty-two mainly Western countries to “break the Israeli blockade of Gaza.”

this is going to be an interesting test....the bigots are en mass this time

[Link: frontpagemag.com...]

121 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:24:25pm

re: #114 gehazi

Thanks. I prefer to think of myself as working at the grassroots level, broadening the political horizons of one individual at time (and especially the youth!).

There's not much I personally can do to fight the Dobsons and Fischers of the world, beyond steering people away from their material. I think that's where some of the disconnect is coming from in this conversation: I'm more concerned with the lives and beliefs of everyday people because it's where I am and what I can do.

There are other people better suited to me to outright fight the political elites, and they will continue to have my full support.

If you are denying the Dobsons and the Fischers their donor base, you are being very effective.

Maybe two at a time?

122 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:26:04pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

He was arrested while out of jail on bail for unrelated grand larceny charges.

123 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:26:07pm

And then we have Herman Cain and Sharon Angle openly admiring Pinochet...

124 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:26:26pm

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rep. Duncan Hunter: “I Would Love A Conservative Dictatorship”

Asshats say the darndest things... *rolls eyes*

126 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:27:32pm

re: #121 wrenchwench

I'll see what I can do. ;) Minds don't change quickly.

127 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:28:30pm

re: #120 albusteve

The flotilla is coming, the flotilla is coming.

European and North American activists, journalists, and mercenaries have set sail—or are about to do so—on fifteen boats with passengers from twenty-two mainly Western countries to “break the Israeli blockade of Gaza.”

this is going to be an interesting test...the bigots are en mass this time

[Link: frontpagemag.com...]


I'm not to worried. The Israelis have figured out the flotilla thing. The ship will develop mysterious steering/engine trouble off the coast and they'll dock in Egypt.

128 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:28:34pm

re: #113 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Rep. Duncan Hunter: “I Would Love A Conservative Dictatorship”

Between this and McConnell's admission yesterday that there wouldn't be much Republican dissent on Libya if the President were one of them, I think the GOP needs a refresher course on "Things We Shouldn't Say Out Loud."

129 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:29:25pm

re: #125 Slumbering Behemoth

CNN - Bible Condemns A Lot, Why Focus On Homosexuality?

[Video]

Because homophobia is just the initiation into a grand life of intolerance.

130 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:29:29pm

re: #128 JasonA

Between this and McConnell's admission yesterday that there wouldn't be much Republican dissent on Libya if the President were one of them, I think the GOP needs a refresher course on "Things We Shouldn't Say Out Loud."

"It was then I realized I had lost my internal monolog..."

131 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:30:20pm

re: #128 JasonA

Between this and McConnell's admission yesterday that there wouldn't be much Republican dissent on Libya if the President were one of them, I think the GOP needs a refresher course on "Things We Shouldn't Say Out Loud."

They're getting cocky, believing their own press that Obama is the "worst president ever" and that next November will just be making the end official. They honestly believe that Average Joe Sixpack is just waiting for them to come and "rescue" him.

132 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:32:01pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

Ship of Fools. How quickly they forget.

Or perhaps they're counting on the rest of us forgetting.

133 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:32:08pm

re: #128 JasonA

Between this and McConnell's admission yesterday that there wouldn't be much Republican dissent on Libya if the President were one of them, I think the GOP needs a refresher course on "Things We Shouldn't Say Out Loud."

Unfortunately, this only matters if the press holds them to account. *crosses fingers*

134 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:32:19pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout


Considering Egypt has opened the border with Gaza, the flotilla can go to Egypt anyway, unload whatever foodstuffs, clothes and tools they like and take them by truck.

135 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:33:20pm

98 again in ABQ...third week and temps are going up over 100deg for at least another week....and dry as a popcorn fart...
generally I like the heat, but this is oppressive and I've never seen a heatwave like this in 7 yrs down here

136 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:33:28pm

re: #134 celticdragon

Considering Egypt has opened the border with Gaza, the flotilla can go to Egypt anyway, unload whatever foodstuffs, clothes and tools they like and take them by truck.

That has always been an option for flotillas in the past as well.

137 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:33:40pm

re: #134 celticdragon

Considering Egypt has opened the border with Gaza, the flotilla can go to Egypt anyway, unload whatever foodstuffs, clothes and tools they like and take them by truck.

But how can you say you ran the Israeli blockade if you do that?

138 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:33:56pm

re: #134 celticdragon

Considering Egypt has opened the border with Gaza, the flotilla can go to Egypt anyway, unload whatever foodstuffs, clothes and tools they like and take them by truck.

And then Hamas closed it.

No, really.

139 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:34:06pm

re: #134 celticdragon

Considering Egypt has opened the border with Gaza, the flotilla can go to Egypt anyway, unload whatever foodstuffs, clothes and tools they like and take them by truck.

they can't afford the bribe money

140 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:35:16pm

Turkey tells Bashar al-Assad to cease Syria repression

Tension between Turkey and Syria is worsening as thousands of refugees from repression by president Bashar al-Assad flee across the border

Officials in Ankara were watching closely as Syrian forces deployed in a village close to the border, Khirbet al-Jouz, after Turkey had flatly rejected an appeal from Damascus to moderate its increasingly angry public comments about the crisis.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey's prime minister, has attacked the repression as "savagery" and urged Assad to sack its military mastermind, his brother Maher, and implement genuine reforms in the spirit of the "Arab spring".

But Erdogan has so far failed to demand that the Syrian president stand down – as he did with Egypt's Hosni Mubarak and Libya's Muammar Gaddafi.

Still, officials, diplomats and analysts say that a bilateral relationship that has flourished politically and economically in recent years is now badly, perhaps irreparably, damaged.

"The rapprochement between Erdogan and Assad has pretty much broken down," said Fadi Hakura of the Chatham House thinktank in London. "Turkey is becoming ever more strident and direct, and this is causing deep unease in Damascus."

141 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:35:59pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

That has always been an option for flotillas in the past as well.


Not really. Unloading in Haifa would have meant possilbe confiscature of significant amounts of food, fishing gear etc, and since the border with Egypt was closed until last month, the logistics of moving humanitarian aid were formidable to say the least.

142 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:36:21pm

re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Turkey tells Bashar al-Assad to cease Syria repression

Erdogan has ticked off both Israel and Syria.

This should be interesting.

143 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:36:24pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But how can you say you ran the Israeli blockade if you do that?


True.

144 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:37:34pm

re: #142 lazardo

Erdogan has ticked off both Israel and Syria.

This should be interesting.


Doesn't matter. Turkey actually has a big enough stick if it came to that. It won't, though.

145 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:37:53pm

re: #137 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

But how can you say you ran the Israeli blockade if you do that?

Let me tell you about this brand new thing we call "spin..."

146 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:37:56pm

Perhaps the flotilla might do more good if it headed toward Benghazi where there actually is a tremendous need for aid. Just a thought.

147 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:39:00pm

re: #146 Petero1818

Perhaps the flotilla might do more good if it headed toward Benghazi where there actually is a tremendous need for aid. Just a thought.

There is a legitimate need in Gaza.

Good point, though.

148 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:39:02pm

re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Turkey tells Bashar al-Assad to cease Syria repression

I've been scanning for reports that would indicate Turkey has moved any formations to a closer proximity to their shared border in response. So far, there are no reports.

so far...

149 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:39:10pm

re: #142 lazardo

Erdogan has ticked off both Israel and Syria.

This should be interesting.

Actually, the article says ...


"The Turks are increasingly unhappy with what is happening in Syria," said a western diplomat. Another consequence has been a renewed warming of relations with Israel after the row over the Gaza aid flotilla last year, when a Turkish ship was boarded on the open seas by Israeli commandos and nine activists killed.
150 calochortus  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:39:23pm

re: #54 JasonA

I know about the quiverfulls, etc

I hadn't heard of them until now. Am I the only one who thinks that sounds awfully phallic?

The "quiver full" comes from the Psalms-"happy is the man whose quiver is full of them" "them" being children. It does not mention the opinion of the mother or mothers involved.

151 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:40:00pm

re: #146 Petero1818

Perhaps the flotilla might do more good if it headed toward Benghazi where there actually is a tremendous need for aid. Just a thought.

I'm beginning to wonder if these things are even about true humanitarian aid.
///

152 Four More Tears  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:40:02pm

re: #146 Petero1818

Perhaps the flotilla might do more good if it headed toward Benghazi where there actually is a tremendous need for aid. Just a thought.

Maybe if the Libyans were rebelling against Jews...

153 BishopX  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:40:08pm

re: #146 Petero1818

but they might get shot if they go there! It's too dangerous! they need to fight repression from a safe distance.//

But I'm seriously beginning to wonder if some sort of state-side support organization for the Libyan rebels would be a good idea.

154 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:40:36pm

re: #142 lazardo

Erdogan has ticked off both Israel and Syria.

This should be interesting.

But as the article reports and other sources have, there has been a thawing of tension between Turkey and Israel.

No swapping of spit mind you, but much less tension as compared to a year ago.

155 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:40:51pm

re: #147 celticdragon

There is a legitimate need in Gaza.

Good point, though.

I'd have to have that proven to me...where does all the aid money go?

156 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:41:11pm

re: #152 JasonA

Maybe if the Libyans were rebelling against Jews...

ha!
good one

157 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:42:16pm

re: #148 Ericus58

I've been scanning for reports that would indicate Turkey has moved any formations to a closer proximity to their shared border in response. So far, there are no reports.

so far...


Why would they? If the Syrians were arming the Kurds, perhaps...but the Syrians are a bit busy at the moment. In any event, Turkey has a first rate modern NATO military, and Syria would have a bad time of it if they ever crossed swords.

158 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:42:29pm

re: #147 celticdragon

There is a legitimate need in Gaza.

Good point, though.

There is legitimate need for aid in Gaza, though the picture we see of Gaza is not entirely accurate. Furthermore, Israel allows aid into gaza on a daily basis, more through Israel than through Egypt. The biggest need for aid is actually in the area of construction materials and other materials that Israel prohibits. Food and medicine are not on that list. I don't believe the flotilla is delivering rebar and concrete (though I could be wrong).

159 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:42:46pm

Headan to bed, it's later than I'm normally up. Nighty.

160 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:44:00pm

re: #114 gehazi

I fight 'em with art

because ain't no right-wing socon on earth gonna be a fan of the stuff I draw :D COME TO OUR SIDE, WE'RE WAY MORE FUN

161 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:45:45pm

re: #155 albusteve

I'd have to have that proven to me...where does all the aid money go?

Not my job to convince you. I have seen and read enough to guess that whatever aid money is poorly accounted for while the people who really do need it still live in their abject hovels and scrape by. If you like, you can look for yourself at the employment numbers and per capita average...but don't let that stop you from sneering, even if they are only Palestinians.
/

162 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:45:55pm

re: #155 albusteve

I'd have to have that proven to me...where does all the aid money go?

Research & Development.

163 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:46:32pm

re: #141 celticdragon

Not really. Unloading in Haifa would have meant possilbe confiscature of significant amounts of food, fishing gear etc, and since the border with Egypt was closed until last month, the logistics of moving humanitarian aid were formidable to say the least.

These flotillas are publicity stunts and don't really carry anything of use. The Marvi Marmara cargo hold was mostly empty. Some expired medication and useless broken wheel chairs, some children's toys. The Palestinians even refused to accept delivery of the junk. The actual cargo was useless.

164 TedStriker  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:46:39pm

re: #25 Slumbering Behemoth

The "Gov't funded abortion mills" meme get's pressed hard on many televangelist programs. It's high time we start taxing their profits.

Most televangelists are more Hollywood than about simply preaching the Gospels...and like Hollywood, I have no doubt a lot of them use creative accounting so they show losses, not profits.

Charlatans, the lot of them...

165 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:47:09pm

re: #157 celticdragon

Why would they? If the Syrians were arming the Kurds, perhaps...but the Syrians are a bit busy at the moment. In any event, Turkey has a first rate modern NATO military, and Syria would have a bad time of it if they ever crossed swords.

Regional politics going back the the history of the Ottoman Turks, plus not wanting to move without interinational backing for a military response, are keeping the Turkish military on standby for now.

166 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:47:47pm

re: #161 celticdragon

So the Flotilla is delivering jobs?

167 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:48:19pm

re: #163 Killgore Trout

These flotillas are publicity stunts and don't really carry anything of use. The Marvi Marmara cargo hold was mostly empty. Some expired medication and useless broken wheel chairs, some children's toys. The Palestinians even refused to accept delivery of the junk. The actual cargo was useless.


I was speaking generally, since at that time the policy was still to confiscate food items not on the approved list. I believe that is no longer the case.

168 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:48:48pm

re: #166 Petero1818

So the Flotilla is delivering jobs?


Are you smoking something?

169 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:49:21pm

re: #161 celticdragon

Not my job to convince you. I have seen and read enough to guess that whatever aid money is poorly accounted for while the people who really do need it still live in their abject hovels and scrape by. If you like, you can look for yourself at the employment numbers and per capita average...but don't let that stop you from sneering, even if they are only Palestinians.
/

I'm not sneering...when someone says the Palistinians need aid, there are various ways to look at it...no need to get your undies in a bunch

170 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:50:22pm

re: #168 celticdragon

Are you smoking something?

and not sharing, mind you
/

171 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:50:55pm

re: #168 celticdragon

Are you smoking something?

Speaking of which...

Ron Paul, Barney Frank introduce marijuana legalization legislation

172 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:51:29pm

re: #169 albusteve

I'm not sneering...when someone says the Palistinians need aid, there are various ways to look at it...no need to get your undies in a bunch

Just don't say its special....

173 lazardo  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:52:14pm

re: #171 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

...now that's what I call bipartisan.

/k, actually heading to bed

174 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:53:38pm

re: #171 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Speaking of which...

Ron Paul, Barney Frank introduce marijuana legalization legislation

especially special...the most misused word in the history of language

175 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:54:26pm

re: #174 albusteve

especially special...the most misused word in the history of language

YOU SAID THE WORD AGAIN!

176 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:55:34pm

re: #165 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Regional politics going back the the history of the Ottoman Turks, plus not wanting to move without interinational backing for a military response, are keeping the Turkish military on standby for now.


The Turks have a tough reputation and the idiots on some of the Israeli forums agitating for a fight with them might have found what the Brits discovered in WW I at Gallipolli. Fighting a well trained opponent with modern NATO equipment and command structures would not at all be the same as dealing with poorly trained Arab conscript outfits with Warsaw pact cast off tanks.

Side note, a Greek teacher of mine (and friend) grew up on Cyprus. She loathes the Turks rather passionately.

177 recusancy  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:55:48pm

Interesting leadership dynamic happening in the GOP house.

178 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:58:44pm

Newt Gingrich Turns Against the Federal Reserve

When Newt Gingrich addresses the Atlanta Press Club Wednesday, here is what he's going to say: that the Federal Reserve should be audited, and that it should be stripped of its banking powers so that it is focused entirely on protecting the value of the dollar. It won't be the first time that he's spoken out on an issue associated with Ron Paul, one of his rivals for the 2012 nomination. To cite one example, he mentioned the Fed last week in his remarks to the Republican Leadership Conference.

But a whole speech focused on it? It sure seems as if the former speaker of the House is making a play for a subset of voters known for dropping money bombs on candidates without a lot of campaign staff. I say that not only due to the subject of this upcoming speech, but because Gingrich talked it up during this appearance on Hugh Hewitt's radio program in a particular way that ...

179 recusancy  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 12:59:53pm

Fox classn' up the joint. Image: white-w-jpg.jpg

180 okiefrommuskogie  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:00:19pm

Ok... putting on my body armor now...
While I agree that federal funds should not be used for abortions, I do think it should be used for general health care and contraceptives.

181 gamark  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:00:31pm
Note that Planned Parenthood is already prohibited from using federal funds for abortions — so this measure is targeted against contraception and general health services, not abortions.

This prohibition you speak of does not exist so you may want to rethink your conclusion.

182 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:01:09pm

re: #179 recusancy

Fox classn' up the joint. Image: white-w-jpg.jpg

When Fox hits bottom, they bust out blasting gear.

183 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:01:16pm

re: #168 celticdragon

My point is merely that employment statistics for Gaza do not tell the story of what is required. Gaza has near 40% unemployment. But they live far better in Gaza than they do in other places with similar unemployment (like Haiti). There is plenty of aid being delivered to Gazans on daily basis through Israel. Certainly enough. There is not a shortage of food aid to Gaza, nor of medicine. What Gaza requires is an economy. So unless the flotilla is bringing jobs, it is merely a stunt. Gaza requires an economy, and they will not have one until they decide that building a civil society is more important than trying to kill Israelis.

184 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:03:32pm

re: #183 Petero1818

My point is merely that employment statistics for Gaza do not tell the story of what is required. Gaza has near 40% unemployment. But they live far better in Gaza than they do in other places with similar unemployment (like Haiti). There is plenty of aid being delivered to Gazans on daily basis through Israel. Certainly enough. There is not a shortage of food aid to Gaza, nor of medicine. What Gaza requires is an economy. So unless the flotilla is bringing jobs, it is merely a stunt. Gaza requires an economy, and they will not have one until they decide that building a civil society is more important than trying to kill Israelis.

Well said.

185 recusancy  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:04:02pm

re: #181 gamark

This prohibition you speak of does not exist so you may want to rethink your conclusion.

Title X does not fund abortion and never has since its establishment.

Hyde_Amendment

186 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:04:15pm

re: #180 okiefrommuskogie

Ok... putting on my body armor now...
While I agree that federal funds should not be used for abortions, I do think it should be used for general health care and contraceptives.

So you disagree with these state laws being passed to cut off all federal money from PP?

187 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:04:47pm

re: #179 recusancy

Fox classn' up the joint.

188 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:05:48pm

And all the good Christian anti-abortionists have stepped forward to help all these people get the services they need right? Right?

189 blueraven  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:05:55pm

re: #180 okiefrommuskogie

Ok... putting on my body armor now...
While I agree that federal funds should not be used for abortions, I do think it should be used for general health care and contraceptives.

Don't think you need body armor for that. It is a reasonable position.

190 okiefrommuskogie  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:05:59pm

re: #186 gehazi

yes, PP provides many great services. But I don't think federal funds should be used for abortions.

191 Interesting Times  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:07:40pm

re: #190 okiefrommuskogie

yes, PP provides many great services. But I don't think federal funds should be used for abortions.

They're not. So why is PP being defunded?

192 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:08:57pm

re: #181 gamark

This prohibition you speak of does not exist so you may want to rethink your conclusion.

You need to know more about what you're up against.

193 BishopX  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:09:05pm

re: #190 okiefrommuskogie

yes, PP provides many great services. But I don't think federal funds should be used for abortions.

Are you willing to make exceptions for the life of the mother? For example in cases of ectopic pregnancies>

194 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:09:26pm

re: #191 publicityStunted

Okie did say that "yes" he disagreed with the state laws now being passed.

195 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:09:37pm

re: #182 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

What exactly is that story about, anyway?

re: #146 Petero1818

The real area in Libya that needs aid is the Nafusa Mountains. There might be an issue getting ships there though.

196 okiefrommuskogie  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:09:37pm

re: #191 publicityStunted

I have no idea. I'm republican, but do not agree with every republican on the planet.

197 blueraven  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:10:16pm

re: #190 okiefrommuskogie

yes, PP provides many great services. But I don't think federal funds should be used for abortions.

FF are not used for abortion. Its against the law, and reinforced by the Hyde Amendment.

198 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:10:39pm

re: #194 gehazi

Okie did say that "yes" he disagreed with the state laws now being passed.

"Okie" is a she. Specifically, that lizard formerly known as "Alaska Kim".

199 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:11:02pm

re: #190 okiefrommuskogie

yes, PP provides many great services. But I don't think federal funds should be used for abortions.

They're not.
Next!

200 okiefrommuskogie  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:11:13pm

re: #193 BishopX

yes.

201 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:11:23pm

It seems NATO pulled it's head out its schizophrenic butt. They are attacking the launchers that are launching rockets at Nalut.

The past 3-4 days have been slow newswise for Libya.

202 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:11:27pm

Just when Fischer says something one could almost agree with, he kicks the bigoted asshole rhetoric into high gear.

On Afghanistan: give up nation-building: not our job, won't work


Our armed forces should have a clearly defined military objective and when that objective is accomplished, we declare victory and come home. Examples of military objectives: dethrone Saddam, remove the Taliban from political power, execute Osama bin Laden. Once those clear-cut objectives are achieved, we declare victory and leave.

OK, you can argue that successfully I think. Might not agree with it, but at least understand it, but then we go into this:


It is particularly impossible to build any kind of nation we'd want to leave behind in a Muslim country. Freedom is in the DNA of Americans, because of the influence of Christianity. We hunger for it and we will bleed and die for it.

But tyranny is in the heart of Muslims, because of the influence of Islam. They hunger for it and they will bleed and die for it.

Cocksucker.

203 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:11:43pm

re: #198 wrenchwench

Noted, although I know something happened (saw the note of being allowed back yesterday) missed whatever initial kerfuffle happened.

204 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:12:00pm

re: #184 Ericus58

thanks

205 gamark  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:12:20pm

re: #185 recusancy

Medicaid and the Hyde Amendment

The present version of the Hyde Amendment requires coverage of abortion in cases of rape, incest, and life endangerment.
206 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:12:25pm

re: #202 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


Cocksucker.

Probably.

207 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:12:34pm

re: #202 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Just when Fischer says something one could almost agree with, he kicks the bigoted asshole rhetoric into high gear.

On Afghanistan: give up nation-building: not our job, won't work

OK, you can argue that successfully I think. Might not agree with it, but at least understand it, but then we go into this:

Cocksucker.

Fischer you ignorant slut.

208 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:12:57pm

re: #206 gehazi

Probably.

ITS RESEARCH!!!
/

209 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:14:59pm

re: #205 gamark

Medicaid and the Hyde Amendment

This I did not know, though I fail to find it remotely objectionable. Note that I am not implying that you do.

210 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:15:07pm

re: #207 Varek Raith

You're insulting sluts comparing them to hi.

In any case, I don't think he has been watching the Middle Easy at all in the past 7 months. In addition, what about Bangladesh and Indonesia?

211 okiefrommuskogie  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:16:09pm

whatever happened to zombie and mandymanners?

212 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:16:16pm

re: #210 ProLifeLiberal

You're insulting sluts comparing them to hi.

In any case, I don't think he has been watching the Middle Easy at all in the past 7 months. In addition, what about Bangladesh and Indonesia?

The Muslim Brotherhood is going to take over Bangladesh too??!!
/Bryan Fischer mode

213 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:16:28pm

Hmm...

214 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:16:48pm

re: #213 Varek Raith

Hmm...

You smell that?

215 recusancy  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:17:19pm

re: #211 okiefrommuskogie

whatever happened to zombie and mandymanners?

Converted to Islam.

216 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:17:24pm

re: #211 okiefrommuskogie

Showed their asses, then shown the door.

217 BishopX  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:17:25pm

re: #211 okiefrommuskogie

whatever happened to zombie and mandymanners?

Okay, now you're just poking the bear...

218 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:17:33pm

re: #177 recusancy

Interesting leadership dynamic happening in the GOP house.

It's another battle of brinksmanship. As the article says, they're playing musical chairs knowing one of them needs to make the deal but the one who does loses the base. That's on top of the brinksmanship with the Dems who want to increase tax revenues to deal with the deficit.

I think we're about to fall off the edge, by the way, and for the most typical reason of brinksmanship failing. Specifically the fact that none of the parties has full control of events.

Greece is about to go through restructuring. The EU tried to cut a non-default default deal, but it's going to leave Greece's economy in tatters. I figure that within not more than six and probably less than three months the nation goes into actual default, possibly withdrawing from the EU. At that point all the default insurances kick in and we see cascading CDS events.

It's going to be a fascinating in retrospect as the cascade of known and secret treaties triggered on the death of Archduke Ferdinand. It's also going to be as widespread and - whether war follows or not - as economically destructive.

Remember, kiddies, that because CDSs are unregulated nobody really knows which are triggered by what event, nor how many are functionally recursive.

And since we're dancing on the edge, we'll fall off.

219 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:17:59pm

re: #215 recusancy

Converted to Islam.

Gay Secular Islam, the worst of the lot.

220 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:18:05pm

re: #211 okiefrommuskogie

whatever happened to zombie and mandymanners?

They got gay married.

221 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:18:53pm

re: #205 gamark

Medicaid and the Hyde Amendment

Is that a problem for you?

222 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:19:02pm

re: #183 Petero1818

There is not a shortage of food aid to Gaza, nor of medicine.

That has been rather hotly debated in the recent past.

Israel's policy was summed up by Dov Weisglass, an adviser to Ehud Olmert, the Israeli Prime Minister, earlier this year. 'The idea is to put the Palestinians on a diet, but not to make them die of hunger,' he said.

***

What Gaza requires is an economy.

Yep. The dynamics make that impossible right now. Hamas needs to blame Israel for everything...and Israel doesn't want a functioning economy that supports Hamas. Neither side has any incetive to make the economy work.


So unless the flotilla is bringing jobs, it is merely a stunt.

False dichotomy. I worked to bring aid to children in Mexico. TGhey were not starving to death, but the extra clothes and foodstuffs were a help to them. I don't recall thinking I was engaging in a stunt. Some of these people may well think that. I doubt that they all do.

Gaza requires an economy, and they will not have one until they decide that building a civil society is more important than trying to kill Israelis.

Hamas established a single party dictatorship, so what the people want is no longer taken into consideration. Since Hamas feels they have a religious mandate (requirement, actually) to kill Jews, this is not going to end simply by making a "civil society" decision. It is far more fundamental then that. It requires the abandonment of a form of magical thinking we can't even get rid of in one of our own major political parties.

223 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:19:51pm

re: #220 goddamnedfrank

They got gay married.

It was a lovely ceremony.

224 okiefrommuskogie  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:21:23pm

re: #216 Slumbering Behemoth

even zombie????

225 gamark  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:21:52pm

re: #221 Ericus58

Is that a problem for you?

Not one bit. I only point it out because a conclusion was reached based (at least partly) on a false premise.

226 recusancy  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:22:02pm

re: #224 okiefrommuskogie

even zombie???

Actually I think she does porn now.

227 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:22:25pm

re: #218 kirkspencer

It's another battle of brinksmanship. As the article says, they're playing musical chairs knowing one of them needs to make the deal but the one who does loses the base. That's on top of the brinksmanship with the Dems who want to increase tax revenues to deal with the deficit.

I think we're about to fall off the edge, by the way, and for the most typical reason of brinksmanship failing. Specifically the fact that none of the parties has full control of events.

Greece is about to go through restructuring. The EU tried to cut a non-default default deal, but it's going to leave Greece's economy in tatters. I figure that within not more than six and probably less than three months the nation goes into actual default, possibly withdrawing from the EU. At that point all the default insurances kick in and we see cascading CDS events.

It's going to be a fascinating in retrospect as the cascade of known and secret treaties triggered on the death of Archduke Ferdinand. It's also going to be as widespread and - whether war follows or not - as economically destructive.

Remember, kiddies, that because CDSs are unregulated nobody really knows which are triggered by what event, nor how many are functionally recursive.

And since we're dancing on the edge, we'll fall off.


Interesting comparison to the events in the summer of 1914, and I think it is valid. All we are missing is a "blank check" document.

228 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:22:43pm

re: #223 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It was a lovely ceremony.

It was especially touching that they had WUB officiate in his bird costume. I cried.

229 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:23:01pm

re: #202 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

You know, there is a part of me that for individuals like Bryan Fischer and his ilk that really wishes that the Hindu/Sikh sects are actually right in their religious beliefs.

And I can honestly say that I would have trouble keeping a smile off of my face if I did get to witness his meeting with his own personal Karma.

230 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:23:17pm

You all are a bunch of weirdos.
/
:P

231 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:23:21pm

If someone trots out the "they'll just claim it was due to rape so give me my abortion" canard as a reason that those three issues are also not to be covered.....

*looks for the whack-a-mole hammer.......*

232 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:24:01pm

re: #230 Varek Raith

You all are a bunch of weirdos.
/
:P

I must be in the right place then.

233 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:24:11pm

re: #230 Varek Raith

You all are a bunch of weirdos.
/
:P

And you're full of sith.

234 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:24:42pm

re: #225 gamark

Not one bit. I only point it out because a conclusion was reached based (at least partly) on a false premise.

then I might come to the conclusion that you are being augmentative....

235 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:25:40pm

re: #234 Ericus58

then I might come to the conclusion that you are being augmentative...

But you just did!
No, no I didn't.

236 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:26:10pm

Two arrested in Seattle for plot against military


Two men have been arrested and charged with plotting to attack a military processing center in Seattle with grenades and machine guns, the U.S. Justice Department said on Thursday.

Abu Khalid Abdul-Latif, 33, of Seattle, and Walli Mujahidh, 32, of Los Angeles were arrested on Wednesday evening in a seven-count complaint accusing them of conspiracy to murder officers and employees of the United States, conspiracy to use grenades and other firearms offenses.

237 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:26:38pm

re: #235 Varek Raith

But you just did!
No, no I didn't.

You malodorous toffee nosed pervert!

238 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:26:43pm

re: #218 kirkspencer

It's another battle of brinksmanship. As the article says, they're playing musical chairs knowing one of them needs to make the deal but the one who does loses the base. That's on top of the brinksmanship with the Dems who want to increase tax revenues to deal with the deficit.

I think we're about to fall off the edge, by the way, and for the most typical reason of brinksmanship failing. Specifically the fact that none of the parties has full control of events.

Greece is about to go through restructuring. The EU tried to cut a non-default default deal, but it's going to leave Greece's economy in tatters. I figure that within not more than six and probably less than three months the nation goes into actual default, possibly withdrawing from the EU. At that point all the default insurances kick in and we see cascading CDS events.

It's going to be a fascinating in retrospect as the cascade of known and secret treaties triggered on the death of Archduke Ferdinand. It's also going to be as widespread and - whether war follows or not - as economically destructive.

Remember, kiddies, that because CDSs are unregulated nobody really knows which are triggered by what event, nor how many are functionally recursive.

And since we're dancing on the edge, we'll fall off.

And when that happens, the finger-pointing will begin. The GOP will blame Obama and the Dems for not going along with the sort of slash-and-burn budget cuts they were pushing, while the Dems will fire back that a deal sat on the table and the GOP walked away because they were too beholden to their base to agree to tax increases of any kind.

239 okiefrommuskogie  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:27:25pm

clear and 75 degrees here... goin halibut fishing. bye y'all.

240 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:27:30pm

re: #234 Ericus58

then I might come to the conclusion that you are being augmentative...

Just supplementing the argument.
;)

241 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:28:10pm

re: #224 okiefrommuskogie

even zombie???

So who are you, really, given this name only hatched yesterday? What was the name under which you used to post?

242 celticdragon  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:28:31pm

re: #236 Killgore Trout

Two arrested in Seattle for plot against military


That was scary. They were at the point of actually procuring weapons to use in a plot to murder recruits at a MEPS depot. Damn.

243 Henchman 25  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:28:34pm

re: #241 kirkspencer

Alaska Kim.

244 Varek Raith  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:29:36pm

re: #243 SteelPH

Zombie Alaska Kim.

FTFY.
/

245 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:29:39pm

re: #238 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

And when that happens, the finger-pointing will begin. The GOP will blame Obama and the Dems for not going along with the sort of slash-and-burn budget cuts they were pushing, while the Dems will fire back that a deal sat on the table and the GOP walked away because they were too beholden to their base to agree to tax increases of any kind.

And the ultimate question will be whom the majority of the public blames - the president or the Republicans. Whichever avoids blame will probably hold the majority in Congress for a generation, at least.

246 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:29:40pm

re: #242 celticdragon

That was scary. They were at the point of actually procuring weapons to use in a plot to murder recruits at a MEPS depot. Damn.

Looks like their arms dealer turned them in.

247 gamark  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:29:44pm

re: #234 Ericus58

then I might come to the conclusion that you are being augmentative...

I pointed out that a ban on federal funds for abortion does not exist. I get a bunch of downdings for doing so. I don't think I was the least bit argumentative.

248 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:30:04pm

re: #241 kirkspencer

So who are you, really, given this name only hatched yesterday? What was the name under which you used to post?

Always a dead give away its a creeper.

249 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:30:52pm

re: #245 kirkspencer

If the US really does default and trigger a global economic crisis likely to be the worst in history...I don't think it really fucking matters who the public blames.

250 BishopX  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:30:53pm

re: #247 gamark

I does exist, it's just not a blanket ban...simple no?

251 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:31:02pm

re: #222 celticdragon

1. On the issue of need in Gaza, the head of the red cross in Gaza made the following statement just last month:

“There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. If you go to the supermarket, there are products. There are restaurants and a nice beach. The problem is mainly in maintenance of infrastructure and in access to goods, concrete for example,”

252 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:31:18pm

re: #247 gamark

I pointed out that a ban on federal funds for abortion does not exist. I get a bunch of downdings for doing so. I don't think I was the least bit argumentative.

But you have to admit, it was augmentative.

253 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:31:22pm

re: #234 Ericus58

re: #236 Killgore Trout

Two arrested in Seattle for plot against military

right in my backyard......

I think that even McDermott would have gone ape-shit on them.

254 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:31:34pm

re: #245 kirkspencer

And the ultimate question will be whom the majority of the public blames - the president or the Republicans. Whichever avoids blame will probably hold the majority in Congress for a generation, at least.

Unfortunately, the cynic in me...or, rather, the cynic that is me...knows that the public will simply pin the blame on Obama, as we've become a country that believes a president capable of practically ruling by fiat, such that any disaster on their watch is automatically their "fault."

255 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:32:45pm

re: #249 gehazi

If the US really does default and trigger a global economic crisis likely to be the worst in history...I don't think it really fucking matters who the public blames.

It does when they start asking to be elected to fix the problem they made.

256 makeitstop  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:32:57pm

re: #245 kirkspencer

And the ultimate question will be whom the majority of the public blames - the president or the Republicans. Whichever avoids blame will probably hold the majority in Congress for a generation, at least.

According to reports I read this morning, Democrats agreed to 'reillions' in spending cuts prior to Cantor bailing on the talks.

I think the Dems win that argument. If I were a blind partisan I'd be happy about that - but who knows what kind of damage will be done before the blame game commences?

Kinda hard to be happy with unknown consequences looming.

257 BishopX  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:33:01pm

re: #254 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I think it's going to depend on the procedure and the optics. If the house and senate can't agree on the deal and it never hits Obama's desk, it'll be hard for him to look bad.

258 lawhawk  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:33:38pm

re: #183 Petero1818

My point is merely that employment statistics for Gaza do not tell the story of what is required. Gaza has near 40% unemployment. But they live far better in Gaza than they do in other places with similar unemployment (like Haiti). There is plenty of aid being delivered to Gazans on daily basis through Israel. Certainly enough. There is not a shortage of food aid to Gaza, nor of medicine. What Gaza requires is an economy. So unless the flotilla is bringing jobs, it is merely a stunt. Gaza requires an economy, and they will not have one until they decide that building a civil society is more important than trying to kill Israelis.

The unemployment situation would be far better if the Palestinians accepted a 2-state solution, recognized Israel's rights to exist alongside the Palestinians, and oh... stopped efforts to attack Israel at every opportunity. Israel shuttered the border with Gaza following the rash of terror attacks and suicide bombings. The terrorists then turned to the rocket war against Israel (which has thankfully been quiet of late) to avoid having to infiltrate Israel directly. The terror war against Israel has cost Palestinians their jobs and higher standard of living. That's on the Palestinians who continue to press the position that they cannot accept Israel's right to exist (which means Hamas and Fatah - in what they say to their own, not in the Western media).

259 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:34:02pm

re: #254 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Unfortunately, the cynic in me...or, rather, the cynic that is me...knows that the public will simply pin the blame on Obama, as we've become a country that believes a president capable of practically ruling by fiat, such that any disaster on their watch is automatically their "fault."

Its a well known fact that natural disasters are God's response to the President's policies.

260 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:34:30pm

re: #255 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It does when they start asking to be elected to fix the problem they made.

And if there isn't an economy left to save?

261 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:36:13pm

re: #260 gehazi

And if there isn't an economy left to save?

Place the blame where it rightfully belongs, and rebuild.

Or, fight/follow Lord Humungus.

262 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:36:16pm

re: #253 Ericus58

re: #236 Killgore Trout

right in my backyard...

I think that even McDermott would have gone ape-shit on them.

You need to get a better fence!
/

263 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:36:44pm

re: #247 gamark

I pointed out that a ban on federal funds for abortion does not exist. I get a bunch of downdings for doing so. I don't think I was the least bit argumentative.

Then be sure to be more precise in what you are saying in the first place.
Everyone took away from that post that you were implying that "abortion on demand" was covered by federal dollars.

Rape, incest and life of the mother reasons is NOT abortion on demand.
Most everyone I'm sure were aware of this.

Fact of the matter, those that still push the meme that the fed is still funding abortions a la PP neglect to make the distinction of what is permitted by law - and rightfully so.

264 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:37:31pm

re: #222 celticdragon

"False dichotomy. I worked to bring aid to children in Mexico. TGhey were not starving to death, but the extra clothes and foodstuffs were a help to them. I don't recall thinking I was engaging in a stunt. Some of these people may well think that. I doubt that they all do."

I am quite sure that every bit counts, and that your aid to kids in Mexico made a difference to all that received. My point is that the Flotilla is not intended to deliver aid. If it were, the aid would go through Israel and be delivered through the hundreds of trucks a day that cross. The purpose of the Flotilla is to spread lies and attempt to embarrass Israel. It is a strategy that has been working, so they will take another kick at the can.

265 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:37:38pm

re: #257 BishopX

I think it's going to depend on the procedure and the optics. If the house and senate can't agree on the deal and it never hits Obama's desk, it'll be hard for him to look bad.

They'll still blame him, only now it will be for not acting like a "leader" by brow-beating Reid and Pelosi into making whatever deal the GOP required in order to get the ceiling raised. About how Obama could have had a deal on his desk yesterday, but he let the Congressional Dems lead him by nose and insist on tax increases that were never going to pass.

266 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:37:52pm

re: #252 Slumbering Behemoth

But you have to admit, it was augmentative.

is this going to follow me around for awhile..... !!!!!!

267 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:38:11pm

re: #261 Slumbering Behemoth

Place the blame where it rightfully belongs, and rebuild.

Or, fight/follow Lord Humungus.

I hear he's an equal opportunity employer...

//

268 iossarian  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:38:40pm

re: #258 lawhawk

I really think that the anti-Israel forces (I deliberately don't want to say "the Palestinians" because I don't think they're the same thing) have decided to oppose any two-state solution at this point. The Palestinians are handy pawns in this effort.

269 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:39:07pm

This is an awesome remake of a really old Fleetwood Mac Song
Bare Trees

Youtube Video

Take that Steve :)
270 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:39:30pm

re: #260 gehazi

And if there isn't an economy left to save?

Then no one will ever barter for goods and services by any means what so ever ever again in all of human history.

271 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:40:47pm

re: #258 lawhawk

That is correct and is bolstered by the fact that even a moderately less radical agenda as is espoused by Fatah in the West Bank can result in a far better situation for them. Unemployment in the West Bank is at 16% compared to 40% in Gaza. West Bank is doing better than Spain!!!

272 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:40:50pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Then no one will ever barter for goods and services by any means what so ever ever again in all of human history.

damn ,,,
What am I gonna do with all this goat milk I've been collecting!?!?!

273 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:41:14pm

re: #272 sattv4u2

damn ,,,
What am I gonna do with all this goat milk I've been collecting!?!?!

Cheese.

274 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:41:32pm

re: #273 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Cheese.

DOH !!!

275 Targetpractice  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:41:38pm

re: #272 sattv4u2

damn ,,,
What am I gonna do with all this goat milk I've been collecting!?!?!

You should have been selling it and buying up gold!

///

276 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:41:39pm

re: #272 sattv4u2

damn ,,,
What am I gonna do with all this goat milk I've been collecting!?!?!

Trade me! I love Goat Milk...

277 kirkspencer  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:42:02pm

re: #249 gehazi

If the US really does default and trigger a global economic crisis likely to be the worst in history...I don't think it really fucking matters who the public blames.

The global economic crisis won't be due to the US defaulting. The default will be part of it, but the primary cause of the failure will be when everyone discovers the bank held and created CDSs are naked.

Back when the bailouts happened I reluctantly agreed with the bailout. I expected, and said at the time, that regulation was needed as well which hasn't happened. But the base reasoning was and is valid. The banks have created a huge defacto money supply through their credit procedures. The backing of that is not the full faith and credit of various nations, but the CDSs created by those banks.

Put simply, the CDS dollars (and pounds and euros and pesos and...) would be shown to be backed by next to nothing. You think the housing crisis was ugly...

There are a handful of mitigation strategies, but they're all ugly and almost all despised by the anti-keynesians and Republicans. By ugly I mean they give a choice of "not as much pain" instead of "ohgodmakeitstop."

278 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:42:07pm

re: #276 HoosierHoops

Trade me! I love Goat Milk...

You won't, once you've seen the goat I got it from!

279 gehazi  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:42:12pm

re: #270 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Point taken. Just saying that the downside of all this is pretty down, and if we get anywhere near there the people on the other side won't have much time for political bullshit of any variety. (And no, I am not invoking the magical balance fairy. It's pretty clear who the grownups in the room are.)

280 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:42:34pm

re: #276 HoosierHoops

Trade me! I love Goat Milk...

NO!!! NO ECONOMY! NO TRADING ALLOWED!

281 BongCrodny  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:42:49pm

re: #272 sattv4u2

damn ,,,
What am I gonna do with all this goat milk I've been collecting!?!?!


You hope it's milk.

282 Petero1818  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:44:14pm

re: #281 BongCrodny

speechless....

283 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:44:16pm

re: #281 BongCrodny

You hope it's milk.

I remember Kingpin.

"I just finished milking the cow." /wipes mouth
"We don't have a cow. We have a bull."

284 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:44:55pm

re: #280 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

NO!!! NO ECONOMY! NO TRADING ALLOWED!

I got some bitch'n shiny stones I could trade!

285 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:45:47pm

re: #284 HoosierHoops

I got some bitch'n shiny stones I could trade!

You've been polishing your own stones, have you!?!?!

Geezzz,, you need a date!

286 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:45:53pm

re: #283 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I remember Kingpin.

"I just finished milking the cow." /wipes mouth
"We don't have a cow. We have a bull."

I do think I've regurgitated in my mouth a little bit....

287 BongCrodny  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:45:53pm

re: #283 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I remember Kingpin.

"I just finished milking the cow." /wipes mouth
"We don't have a cow. We have a bull."


"How's life?"
"Taking forever."

288 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:45:58pm

re: #284 HoosierHoops

I got some bitch'n shiny stones I could trade!

What makes your shiny stones better than the shiny stones I found by the river?

289 BishopX  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:46:49pm

re: #265 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

They'll still blame him, only now it will be for not acting like a "leader" by brow-beating Reid and Pelosi into making whatever deal the GOP required in order to get the ceiling raised. About how Obama could have had a deal on his desk yesterday, but he let the Congressional Dems lead him by nose and insist on tax increases that were never going to pass.

I think that'll work about as well this time as it did when the government shut down under Clinton. People expect politicians to try and shift blame, and they don't always fall for it.

290 webevintage  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:47:51pm

God, I really hate Republicans today.

291 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:48:39pm

re: #287 BongCrodny

"How's life?"
"Taking forever."

[On smoking]
Ishmael: You should try to quit. They say its bad for your heart, your lungs. It quickens the aging process.
Roy: Who's done more research than the good people at the American Tobacco Industry? They say its harmless. Why would they lie? If you're dead, you can't smoke.

292 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:49:28pm

Not yet Page-worthy:

Former University of New Mexico President F. Chris Garcia has been arrested as part of an investigation into an Internet-based prostitution ring, News 13 has confirmed.

Maybe when there's more info. By the way, this would be the second university president appointed by Bill Richardson who has been arrested. The other one went to jail.

293 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:50:26pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

[On smoking]
Ishmael: You should try to quit. They say its bad for your heart, your lungs. It quickens the aging process.
Roy: Who's done more research than the good people at the American Tobacco Industry? They say its harmless. Why would they lie? If you're dead, you can't smoke.

Damn those liberal scientists! Why are they trying to destroy America?

294 Amory Blaine  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:51:25pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Classic

295 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:51:34pm

re: #292 wrenchwench

Not yet Page-worthy:

Maybe when there's more info. By the way, this would be the second university president appointed by Bill Richardson who has been arrested. The other one went to jail.

and there are still on going pay to play investigations connected to Richardson...of course BO cut off those for his buddy....what a dirty state

296 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:51:53pm

re: #292 wrenchwench

Not yet Page-worthy:

Maybe when there's more info. By the way, this would be the second university president appointed by Bill Richardson who has been arrested. The other one went to jail.


Maybe he just needed a bunky!

297 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:52:21pm

re: #294 Amory Blaine

Classic

Ishmael: God blessed my brother to be a good carpenter. It's okay.
Roy: Yeah, well he blessed you, too, and I'll give you a hint what it is. It's round, has three holes, and you put your fingers into it.
Ishmael: You leave Rebecca out of this.

I'm going to have to add that to my Netflix when I get home.

298 BishopX  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:53:10pm

re: #292 wrenchwench

That's a shame. I liked Richardson and it's sad to be reminded of all the shit he turned out to be caught up in.

299 BongCrodny  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:53:26pm

re: #291 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

[On smoking]
Ishmael: You should try to quit. They say its bad for your heart, your lungs. It quickens the aging process.
Roy: Who's done more research than the good people at the American Tobacco Industry? They say its harmless. Why would they lie? If you're dead, you can't smoke.


That whole damn movie is a "favorite movie quotes" list.

"What is it about good sex that makes me have to crap? You really jarred something loose, Tiger."

300 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:53:47pm

re: #295 albusteve

Steve: Would you ask Walter to email me?

301 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:54:29pm

re: #300 HoosierHoops

Steve: Would you ask Walter to email me?

No need

I'll abuse you right here !!

//

302 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:54:51pm

re: #298 BishopX

That's a shame. I liked Richardson and it's sad to be reminded of all the shit he turned out to be caught up in.

the guy is a smoldering wreck of corruption

303 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:55:28pm

re: #300 HoosierHoops

Steve: Would you ask Walter to email me?

will do

304 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:56:03pm

re: #301 sattv4u2

No need

I'll abuse you right here !!

//

Good money in that.

305 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:56:08pm

re: #266 Ericus58

is this going to follow me around for awhile... !!!

I only do it out of love. And it was too good of a typo to pass up, the way it fit into the whole thing.

306 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:57:04pm

re: #299 BongCrodny

That whole damn movie is a "favorite movie quotes" list.

"What is it about good sex that makes me have to crap? You really jarred something loose, Tiger."

I didn't want to be the one to tell him, but with those narrow hips, that girl couldn't have more than 6 or 7 children!

307 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:57:50pm

re: #267 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

I hear he's an equal opportunity employer...

//

I like his stance on fossil fuels.

308 BishopX  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:57:59pm

re: #302 albusteve

Yeah, I know. He was just the first presidential candidate I ever voted for (In the MA primary in 2008).

309 wrenchwench  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 1:59:12pm

re: #298 BishopX

That's a shame. I liked Richardson and it's sad to be reminded of all the shit he turned out to be caught up in.

"Caught up in" sounds like he wasn't instigating or profiting from any of it. If he wasn't so dirty, he's at least be Asst. Deputy Something or Other in the Obama administration. He dumped Hillary and gave his all to the Obama campaign.

310 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:01:25pm

re: #309 wrenchwench

"Caught up in" sounds like he wasn't instigating or profiting from any of it. If he wasn't so dirty, he's at least be Asst. Deputy Something or Other in the Obama administration. He dumped Hillary and gave his all to the Obama campaign.

there was noise the feds were closing in on him when BO defunded Justice, ending the investigation...the official word was "nothing here, move along"

311 BongCrodny  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:01:32pm

re: #306 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I didn't want to be the one to tell him, but with those narrow hips, that girl couldn't have more than 6 or 7 children!

Munson

312 Ericus58  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:01:40pm

re: #305 Slumbering Behemoth

I only do it out of love. And it was too good of a typo to pass up, the way it fit into the whole thing.

heh - I knew what I had done about 3 seconds after hitting the "post" button and knew "well, that's gonna get noticed" !

313 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:01:50pm

re: #310 albusteve

not Justice, the AG

314 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:02:47pm

re: #312 Ericus58

None of my typos turn out funny, just messy. :(

315 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:03:26pm

re: #303 albusteve

will do

Hey...I got my own page over at a Stalker blog awhile back!
Talk about Abuse and insults because I told the story when I changed to the Dem party 11-1-2010.. Can you believe how popular I am now?
It was awesome!

316 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:04:21pm

re: #300 HoosierHoops

Steve: Would you ask Walter to email me?

got a reply....he said "tell HH forget it"

317 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:05:08pm

re: #310 albusteve

there was noise the feds were closing in on him when BO defunded Justice, ending the investigation...the official word was "nothing here, move along"

How and when did Obama defund the Justice Department? The congress controls funding and congressional Republicans tried to defund the lawsuit against Arizona, but this is the first I've heard of Obama defunding anything.

318 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:06:27pm

re: #317 goddamnedfrank

How and when did Obama defund the Justice Department? The congress controls funding and congressional Republicans tried to defund the lawsuit against Arizona, but this is the first I've heard of Obama defunding anything.

he defunded the investigation out of there AG office

319 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:07:58pm

re: #316 albusteve

got a reply...he said "tell HH forget it"

Hope he bought plenty of Tissues...Get's a timeout and never comes back..Did his feelings get hurt?

320 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:09:55pm

re: #319 HoosierHoops

Hope he bought plenty of Tissues...Get's a timeout and never comes back..Did his feelings get hurt?

he said he can't log on, or he would

321 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:10:24pm

You'd think the wingnuts would pick up on this somehow, but they are wingnuts after all...

Deportations Higher Under Obama Than Bush

Still there are many people who will be surprised to learn that deportations are higher under a liberal administration than a conservative one.

What's changed has been the mix of deportations. The Bush Administration did more work-site raids with many of the illegal immigrants rounded up in those raids being deported.

The Obama Administration has focused more on deporting illegal immigrants with criminal histories, especially violent ones. The Bush administration also went after criminals illegally in the U.S. but under Obama that has been ratcheted up.

I guess there's no wingnutty way to spin this that makes the wingnuts look good while making Obama look bad.

322 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:10:57pm

re: #318 albusteve

he defunded the investigation out of there AG office

[Citation needed]

The prosecutors dropped the case, I can find not one single allegation of defunding. Since Obama doesn't actually control Justice Department funding, Congress does, what you allege doesn't comport with reality.

323 Kragar  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:11:53pm

re: #321 Slumbering Behemoth

You'd think the wingnuts would pick up on this somehow, but they are wingnuts after all...

Deportations Higher Under Obama Than Bush

I guess there's no wingnutty way to spin this that makes the wingnuts look good while making Obama look bad.

Obviously its a cover for something.
/

324 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:12:09pm

re: #320 albusteve

he said he can't log on, or he would

Problems at this end or his end?

325 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:12:54pm

re: #322 goddamnedfrank

[Citation needed]

The prosecutors dropped the case, I can find not one single allegation of defunding. Since Obama doesn't actually control Justice Department funding, Congress does, what you allege doesn't comport with reality.

I misspoke regarding Justice...otherwise that was the language used in the article I read...'defunded the investigation' because there was nothing incriminating

326 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:13:02pm

re: #323 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Obviously its a cover for something.
/

HE'S DEPORTING WHITE CITIZENS!!!11ty
/G. Beck

327 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:13:17pm

re: #320 albusteve

he said he can't log on, or he would

Has he tried recently? Charles hit the ban button initially by mistake, then changed it to a 24 hour timeout soon after.

328 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:13:50pm

re: #324 Decatur Deb

Problems at this end or his end?

he says he's blocked....other than just that I have no idea what's going on

329 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:14:25pm

re: #316 albusteve

hehehe

and btw ,, you've got mail

330 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:14:53pm

re: #328 albusteve

he says he's blocked...other than just that I have no idea what's going on

Sounds like a fumble-finger somewhere.

331 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:15:38pm

re: #327 goddamnedfrank

Has he tried recently? Charles hit the ban button initially by mistake, then changed it to a 24 hour timeout soon after.

when that happened I informed Walter...he claims there is a ruse, and I think he may have lost interest, but I don't really know

332 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:18:23pm

re: #331 albusteve

when that happened I informed Walter...he claims there is a ruse, and I think he may have lost interest, but I don't really know

A ruse, lol, yep that's Walter alright.

Youtube Video
333 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:18:31pm

re: #330 Decatur Deb

Sounds like a fumble-finger somewhere.

don't know...not my business

334 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:21:31pm

re: #333 albusteve

don't know...not my business

Did you see my link to the remake of Bare Trees upthread?

335 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:22:16pm

re: #228 goddamnedfrank

It was especially touching that they had WUB officiate in his bird costume. I cried.

THE AVIAN HIGH PRIEST CONSECRATES THIS UNHOLY UNION

336 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:24:02pm

re: #334 HoosierHoops

Did you see my link to the remake of Bare Trees upthread?

no...I'll go see

337 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:27:50pm

re: #336 albusteve

no...I'll go see

well, that's...ah...different
vid's kinds cool tho

338 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:28:47pm

re: #336 albusteve

no...I'll go see

As you know bare trees is a very old song..Before they let those 2 girls into the band to ruin everything..
This would be the logical evolution.. Classic Rock and Blues with Rap..
Just like kid Rock
LOL

339 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:30:04pm

re: #338 HoosierHoops

NBA draft tonight

Weak pool, imho

340 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:31:27pm

re: #339 sattv4u2

NBA draft tonight

Weak pool, imho

That's why all the trade talk is shit...Why would you trade Tony Parker for anyone in this pool..Not one future all-Star in the bunch

341 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:32:21pm

re: #340 HoosierHoops

e-mail me when you get a chance

342 albusteve  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:33:21pm

re: #338 HoosierHoops

As you know bare trees is a very old song..Before they let those 2 girls into the band to ruin everything..
This would be the logical evolution.. Classic Rock and Blues with Rap..
Just like kid Rock
LOL

my FM days are back with Peter Green...they were a blues band and with J Spencer, an actual monster band....two of the best blues guitarists ever to play together

343 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:34:38pm

re: #340 HoosierHoops

That's why all the trade talk is shit...Why would you trade Tony Parker for anyone in this pool..Not one future all-Star in the bunch

Kyrei Irving

Derrick Williams

then lost of nothing!

344 sattv4u2  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 2:35:15pm

re: #340 HoosierHoops

re: #343 sattv4u2

Kyrei Irving

Derrick Williams

then lost LOTS of nothing!

although lost works too

345 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jun 23, 2011 3:39:54pm

re: #331 albusteve

when that happened I informed Walter...he claims there is a ruse, and I think he may have lost interest, but I don't really know

I have no time for "ruses."

His timeout expired on May 23 - all he has to do is log on.

346 Thorzdad  Fri, Jun 24, 2011 7:46:08am

I've said it before...The conservative plan is to get as much of their reactionary, backward agenda pushed-through as fast as they can. They know doing so much damage will probably hurt them in the election. However, they also know it's bloody difficult to un-do a law once it's enacted.


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