The Bob Cesca Show: A Very Money Man Christmas

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Today’s program from our podcasting affiliate, The Bob Cesca Show:

A Very Money Man Christmas: Not Safe For Work; Kimberley A. Johnson and Jody Hamilton are here today; We celebrate our last 2017 show with The Money Man That’s Right Eddie Money; The repercussions of Trump’s horrendous tax bill; Trump’s real estate carve out will cost half a billion dollars; ANWAR on the chopping block; House Republicans pursuing a Deep State Coup narrative; Fox News stooge suggests the FBI is trying to assassinate Trump; Jill Stein under scrutiny; Momentum into the midterms; Winning the Senate; and much more.

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405 comments
1
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:33:49pm
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2
makeitstop  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:43:18pm

So I took one for y’all and listened to Milk N Cooks.

Holy fuck, they’re so lame. Bloodless pseudo-EDM.

And this looks like a commercial for a bar. A really lame commercial.

Milk N Cooks - Joy District

3
Kragar  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:46:05pm
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4
jaunte  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:46:20pm

re: #2 makeitstop

I sat through the ad, but when does the music start?

5
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:48:47pm

Before the Great LGF Creationist Purge this post would have received lots of down-dings.

6
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:49:32pm

Damn it. LGF is acting up again. I can’t win.

7
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:49:41pm

Finally heard Orrin Hatch sucking Trump’s tiny orange cock on national TV. First thing I thought of…

YouTube

8
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:53:00pm

I was able to fix my #5, so if you want to see what I really wanted to post, please reload.

9
jaunte  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:53:14pm
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10
jaunte  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:54:36pm

re: #5 teleskiguy

Antartica; that’s the part that runs all around the edge of the big disc, right?

11
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:55:37pm

This makes me want to break things.

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12
jaunte  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:56:16pm
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13
Decatur Deb  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:57:19pm

The letter Indivisible is sending to team members/supporters is a good bit less pugnacious than the statements released immediately after the DACA fail. It’s more upbeat, thoughtful, and has a link for rapid last-minute calling to MoCs.

Ah, youth.

14
gocart mozart  Dec 21, 2017 • 7:57:32pm

re: #2 makeitstop

Milk & Cookies = EDM MUZAK

15
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:06:43pm

This guy from Telluride spits hot fire about our snow plight in the inner mountain west.

Is It Ever Gonna Snow? by LIF TKT

16
jaunte  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:07:37pm
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17
Targetpractice  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:11:39pm

re: #16 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Yeah, but they moved that goalpost months ago. Now it’s “Prove Russia changed any votes!”

The unspoken conclusion is they’re totally cool with a foreign government interfering in our election, so long as Hillary didn’t win.

18
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:12:32pm

re: #16 jaunte

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19
Kragar  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:13:01pm

re: #2 makeitstop

GAH!

Allow me to post an antidote to that dreck.

Mariner’s Revenge Song (Lyrics!) -The Decemberists

We are two mariners
Our ship’s sole survivors
In this belly of a whale
It’s ribs are ceiling beams
It’s guts are carpeting
I guess we have some time to kill

You may not remember me
I was a child of three
And you, a lad of eighteen
But, I remember you
And I will relate to you
How our histories interweave

20
makeitstop  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:13:14pm

re: #4 jaunte

I sat through the ad, but when does the music start?

That was pretty much it. their big ‘single’ was just as sleepy as the bar commercial.

They’re the soundtrack assholes like Thernovich deserve.

21
Interesting Times  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:13:43pm

Heh:

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22
jaunte  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:14:32pm

re: #20 makeitstop

It’s hard to believe that people with no musical ideas at all are making a living at it, but this is the world we’re in now.

23
Decatur Deb  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:14:47pm

re: #17 Targetpractice

Yeah, but they moved that goalpost months ago. Now it’s “Prove Russia changed any votes!”

The unspoken conclusion is they’re totally cool with a foreign government interfering in our election, so long as Hillary didn’t win.

Pretty hard to dismiss the notion that many of them simply are the Russians, echoing and amplifying their own agitprop.

24
makeitstop  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:15:29pm

re: #14 gocart mozart

Milk & Cookies = EDM MUZAK

Elevator EDM

25
jaunte  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:17:44pm
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makeitstop  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:20:20pm

re: #22 jaunte

It’s hard to believe that people with no musical ideas at all are making a living at it, but this is the world we’re in now.

I thought that Emancipator dude was the lamest music in the world.

But he’s got big time competition.

(I linked to that mess instead of posting it, because I already made y’all suffer enough.)

27
Decatur Deb  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:20:53pm

re: #25 jaunte

Trump is working the Southern Strategy exponentially more genuinely (read terminally) than any other Republican who’s come before him. Welp.

And it didn’t play in Pensacola. When the dust settles, he’s just another loud-mouthed Yankee.

28
retired cynic  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:34:04pm

Anymouse has been missing from the evening discussion society here. Lost internet again?

29
electrotek  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:34:14pm

re: #2 makeitstop

So I took one for y’all and listened to Milk N Cooks.

Holy fuck, they’re so lame. Bloodless pseudo-EDM.

And this looks like a commercial for a bar. A really lame commercial.

[Embedded content]

Video

Kill it with fire, that was beyond awful.

Remember when electronic music videos were imaginative and CREATIVE?

Case in point, possibly the inspiration for the popular app Boomerang:

Roni Size, Reprazent - Brown Paper Bag

30
Kragar  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:35:47pm
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31
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:36:48pm
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32
scottslemmons  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:40:12pm

re: #19 Kragar

GAH!

Allow me to post an antidote to that dreck.

[Embedded content]

We are two mariners
Our ship’s sole survivors
In this belly of a whale
It’s ribs are ceiling beams
It’s guts are carpeting
I guess we have some time to kill

You may not remember me
I was a child of three
And you, a lad of eighteen
But, I remember you
And I will relate to you
How our histories interweave

Ya heard the song the Decembrists did with Lin Manuel Miranda for the “Hamildrops” project?

The Decemberists - Ben Franklin’s Song (from Hamildrops) [Official Audio]

33
makeitstop  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:45:35pm

Barkley on the TNT game halftime show:

‘This is the second big gift I got this week…’

Ernie: ‘What was the first?’

Barkley: ‘That Republican tax cut! Thanks, Republicans! I knew you’d come through for us rich people. Sorry, poor people. I’m hopin’ for you, but I know you don’t have no chance.’

34
retired cynic  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:46:53pm

re: #33 makeitstop

Barkley on the TNT game halftime show:

‘This is the second big gift I got this week…’

Ernie: ‘What was the first?’

Barkley: ‘That Republican tax cut! Thanks, Republicans! I knew you’d come through for us rich people. Sorry, poor people. I’m hopin’ for you, but I know you don’t have no chance.’

A Mouth That Roars! And good on him.

35
Targetpractice  Dec 21, 2017 • 8:57:13pm

re: #30 Kragar

[Embedded content]

The “liberal press” again helping the GOP by presenting their refusal to do anything for voters as a collective action of Congress so voters get the impression that the DNC is supporting this inaction.

36
Dave In Austin  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:01:11pm
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37
meteor  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:02:44pm

There’s an album called “The Cure for Babies.” It includes the song “Let’s Go to Bed.” Who was the producer, Roy Moore?

open.spotify.com

38
scottslemmons  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:04:42pm

re: #37 meteor

There’s an album called “The Cure for Babies.” It includes the song “Let’s Go to Bed.” Who was the producer, Roy Moore?

open.spotify.com

Well, sometimes, you really want the baby to go to bed. So much crying! So much pooping! Why at 3 a.m.?!

39
Stanley Sea  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:05:38pm

re: #33 makeitstop

Barkley on the TNT game halftime show:

‘This is the second big gift I got this week…’

Ernie: ‘What was the first?’

Barkley: ‘That Republican tax cut! Thanks, Republicans! I knew you’d come through for us rich people. Sorry, poor people. I’m hopin’ for you, but I know you don’t have no chance.’

he’s running

40
Stanley Sea  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:10:32pm

re: #36 Dave In Austin

[Embedded content]

AJ taking the knife to the father of her child.

But, note Larry Kudlow & Jason Miller as potential new WH people?

the yam is chumming for people who want to be by him.

41
electrotek  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:12:17pm
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42
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:12:36pm

re: #16 jaunte

Twitter has now identified at least 202,973 tweets tied to the Kremlin during the 2016 election. nbcnews.com …
9:53 PM - Dec 21, 2017

Russian Twitter trolls exploited key election moments
Russian trolls chose targeted moments during the presidential election to infiltrate and divide the online conversations of millions of Americans.
nbcnews.com
18 18 Replies 271 271 Retweets 239 239 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy
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Eric Boehlert
✔
@EricBoehlert
remember when lib dudes demanded “evidence” that Russia tried to interfere? #GoodOldDays

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…
10:03 PM - Dec 21, 2017
17 17 Replies 115 115 Retweets 212 212 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy
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And they are still there — promoting dissension on every political topic. Zuckerberg has a lot to answer for.

43
makeitstop  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:13:07pm

re: #40 Stanley Sea

AJ taking the knife to the father of her child.

But, note Larry Kudlow & Jason Miller as potential new WH people?

the yam is chumming for people who want to be by him.

And the list is a lot shorter than it was in January, I’d bet.

44
makeitstop  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:15:13pm

re: #42 Hecuba’s daughter

And they are still there — promoting dissension on every political topic. Zuckerberg has a lot to answer for.

We now know that Russians invested pretty heavily in Twitter.

Maybe people should start asking where Zuck’s money came from.

45
Stanley Sea  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:21:10pm

MIS - I found the use for that Alexa thing I bought. Music.

Right now, Stevie Winwood solo & then Traffic.

46
Single-handed sailor  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:22:23pm
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47
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:27:33pm

GOES-16 is fucking amazing.

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48
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:31:15pm

re: #45 Stanley Sea

MIS - I found the use for that Alexa thing I bought. Music.

Right now, Stevie Winwood solo & then Traffic.

My old Sirius TTR-1 died. Alexa now has stepped in and plays Sirius for me. On my teleworking days, like to have it play 40’s swing music, Old Time Radio shows, Sinatra, Met Opera, BBC World News, CBC and MSNBC at night for Rachel and Lawrence. Yes, I know Sirius has Fox, lots of Jesus and Right wing talkers but I just ignore those channels…

49
Stanley Sea  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:32:25pm

re: #48 Joe Bacon 🌹

My old Sirius TTR-1 died. Alexa now has stepped in and plays Sirius for me. On my teleworking days, like to have it play 40’s swing music, Old Time Radio shows, Sinatra, Met Opera, BBC World News, CBC and MSNBC at night for Rachel and Lawrence. Yes, I know Sirius has Fox, lots of Jesus and Right wing talkers but I just ignore those channels…

There’s so much more I need to listen to.

50
goddamnedfrank  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:36:03pm

re: #36 Dave In Austin

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51
Belafon  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:53:03pm
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52
Belafon  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:53:46pm
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53
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 9:56:42pm

re: #51 Belafon

Carl Hiaasen’s books “Kick Ass” and “Paradise Screwed” - collections of his columns in the Miami Herald - showcase how dumb, bizarre, vain, and utterly corrupt the powerful can be in Florida. Good reads.

With that said, this does not surprise me in the slightest.

54
Stanley Sea  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:02:17pm

re: #51 Belafon

[Embedded content]

Uh, privilege??????????????

55
FormerDirtDart  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:16:40pm

To carry on the elephant coverage from downstairs

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Star Wars Kid

56
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:20:27pm
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57
goddamnedfrank  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:22:50pm
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58
Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:25:06pm

re: #57 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

But Hugh Hewitt assured me Democrats were stupid to be excited about an unprecedented 13% advantage in the generic ballot with a huge tax cut newly passed!

You don’t suppose he’s… full of shit, do you?

59
Targetpractice  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:25:42pm

re: #57 goddamnedfrank

[Embedded content]

How can this be when we’ve been assured that the NFL protests are unpopular?

60
Belafon  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:29:38pm

re: #59 Targetpractice

How can this be when we’ve been assured that the NFL protests are unpopular?

Have you noticed that liberal campaigns against some commercial interest are far more successful than conservative ones? Some of it is that conservatives are lousy at protesting - “Have baristas say ‘Trump’ when they call out your name” or “Destroy your Kureg” - but I think the numbers and the money are on the liberal side.

61
JordanRules  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:36:53pm

re: #31 teleskiguy

Dayum! Savage and we’ll done.

62
Kragar  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:37:29pm
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63
Kilroy was here  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:47:41pm

re: #21 Interesting Times

Here is a near complete list of countries that went against Trump in the UN.

“Yakko’s World (Nations of the World)” - Animaniacs Live! Panel - SDCC 2016

64
SteelPH  Dec 21, 2017 • 10:50:12pm

re: #63 Kilroy was here

I regret only having one upding to give.

65
Targetpractice  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:02:39pm

re: #62 Kragar

[Embedded content]

And he’s now got another juicy thread going:

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TL;DR (so far) is that Don McGahn (WH Counsel) knew Flynn had violated the Logan Act by calling the Russians on Trump’s behalf (which Flynn is prepared to testify to), that he’d lied to the FBI about doing so (he found this out from Yates), and kept notes showing that he’d advised Trump of all this (notes he’s turned over to Mueller). So Bob Mueller has evidence destroying every WH version of events because the WH Counsel played CYA by keeping evidence that his boss knew he was obstructing justice by trying to protect Flynn.

66
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:07:52pm

re: #65 Targetpractice

Who is this guy/gal? A very intriguing, and plausible, anonymous Twitter account, if I say so myself.

67
Targetpractice  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:17:00pm

re: #66 teleskiguy

Who is this guy? A very intriguing, and plausible, anonymous Twitter account, if I say so myself.

Not sure, but it gets better. In the same article HW is analyzing, it brings up Rinsed Prius doing the Sunday talk show circuit spinning the idea that the reason Flynn wasn’t fired sooner was because the WH Counsel has told them there was nothing there. Rinsed has since been interviewed by Mueller, no doubt with questions about these events.

Fun fact: Rinsed and McGahn have the same attorney representing them. Since he advises each on their legal strategy and testimony, it would be a conflict of interest for him to represent two clients giving opposing versions of events. Since he continues to represent both, odds are both are telling the same story: McGahn’s. So Mueller not only has McGahn’s notes showing he’d advised Trump, he has Rinsed corroborating McGahn’s version of events.

So Mueller not only has Donny’s nuts in a vice, he has every aide in a similar spot: Provide testimony to further sink Trump’s ass or face perjury and obstruction charges.

68
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:17:33pm

re: #28 retired cynic

Anymouse has been missing from the evening discussion society here. Lost internet again?

I don’t think I’ve seen him for the last 2 or 3 days.

69
Single-handed sailor  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:30:42pm

Roy Rogers - Happy trails

70
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:37:39pm

Howdy, y’all. I’ve been out ill, so y’all got a break from me.

Saw this and chortled:

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71
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:39:53pm

re: #70 Anymouse 🌹

Howdy, y’all. I’ve been out ill, so y’all got a break from me.

Saw this and chortled:

[Embedded content]

We’ve missed you! Hope you are fully recovered and feeling fine.

72
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:42:01pm

re: #71 Hecuba’s daughter

We’ve missed you! Hope you are fully recovered and feeling fine.

Thanks.

I feel sorry for Teleskiguy though, with the lack of snow in Colorado. We got about four inches today here.

73
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:46:48pm

Supposed to be getting cold here in Chicago area in a few days, but it looks like real snow might not show up till next week Friday. But who knows?

74
teleskiguy  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:47:51pm

The ski area is finally open. It snowed all day today, had to chain up to get out of the (not plowed, distant from the base area) goddamned parking lot after I got off work today. My new boss likes me, he’s said stuff like “you’re efficient” and “I trust you.” I’ve only been working there three days, so I must be doing something right. There’s still not enough snow for a reasonable distribution of folks on ski slopes, and the busy season is here. I expect a lot of collisions and injuries.

75
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 21, 2017 • 11:57:53pm
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Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:10:57am

Pennsylvania sovereign citizens “impeach” Hillary Clinton and others, sentencing them to death.

Wonkette makes fun of them, but JJ McNab is noted in the piece that such “convictions” usually result in a turn of violence afterward.

Threatening a former First Lady might also trigger a visit from the Secret Service.

wonkette.com

77
IngisKahn  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:28:57am

Elon wasn’t kidding:

Image: A4YSU6R.png

78
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:29:37am

Two more degrees to go, and we go negative here.

79
Ace-o-aces  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:38:08am
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80
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:46:55am

re: #79 Ace-o-aces

Because no one could sleep in the daytime… . or answer a ringing cell phone at night.

81
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 1:08:26am

Well, Cliven Bundy and his merry band of Sovereign Citizens just had a mistrial declared in their case about the Bunkerville standoff against the Bureau of Land Management.

motherjones.com

Turns out the prosecution withheld a whole bunch of exculpatory evidence from the defence, and lied about other evidence.

It’s almost as if the DOJ is trying to screw up all these SovCit cases.

82
goddamnedfrank  Dec 22, 2017 • 1:13:06am

Bubble go pop!

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83
wheat-dogg  Dec 22, 2017 • 1:13:36am

re: #81 Anymouse 🌹

Well, Cliven Bundy and his merry band of Sovereign Citizens just had a mistrial declared in their case about the Bunkerville standoff against the Bureau of Land Management.

motherjones.com

Turns out the prosecution withheld a whole bunch of exculpatory evidence from the prosecution, and lied about other evidence.

It’s almost as if the DOJ is trying to screw up all these SovCit cases.

Check this, bc it doesn’t make sense.

84
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 1:21:44am

re: #83 wheat-dogg

Check this, bc it doesn’t make sense.

Fixed. Prosecution withheld evidence from defence.

85
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 1:26:55am

re: #82 goddamnedfrank

Bubble go pop!

[Embedded content]

When I started seeing Bitcoin videos pop up on YouTube under any search saying “Buy Now!” and a flood of E-mail spam, I figured this was right around the corner.

To me, Bitcoin doesn’t seem different from any other libertarian scam, whether seasteading or the so-called “Galt’s Gulch” community in Chile that has no water.

86
I cannot.  Dec 22, 2017 • 1:37:55am

re: #85 Anymouse 🌹

I mean, there is SOMETHING to be said for cryptocurrency…but “BUY NOW, INVEST YOUR LIFE SAVINGS INTO IT, MORTGAGE YOUR HOUSE IF YOU CAN!” ain’t the thing to say about it.

I was alive for the mortgage bubble, the dot com bubble, junk bonds, silver and gold, S&Ls… I’ve seen this play before, I know how the final act goes.

87
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 1:43:50am

re: #86 I cannot.

I mean, there is SOMETHING to be said for cryptocurrency…but “BUY NOW, INVEST YOUR LIFE SAVINGS INTO IT, MORTGAGE YOUR HOUSE IF YOU CAN!” ain’t the thing to say about it.

I was alive for the mortgage bubble, the dot com bubble, junk bonds, silver and gold, S&Ls… I’ve seen this play before, I know how the final act goes.

Florida land deals in the Twenties, stocks at the end of the same decade … the pitch is always the same “buy now, before it’s too late”

88
Single-handed sailor  Dec 22, 2017 • 1:49:18am

re: #86 I cannot.

I mean, there is SOMETHING to be said for cryptocurrency…but “BUY NOW, INVEST YOUR LIFE SAVINGS INTO IT, MORTGAGE YOUR HOUSE IF YOU CAN!” ain’t the thing to say about it.

I was alive for the mortgage bubble, the dot com bubble, junk bonds, silver and gold, S&Ls… I’ve seen this play before, I know how the final act goes.

I remember the Pyramid Parties of the 1980s.

89
Dr Lizardo  Dec 22, 2017 • 2:05:46am

re: #2 makeitstop

So I took one for y’all and listened to Milk N Cooks.

Holy fuck, they’re so lame. Bloodless pseudo-EDM.

And this looks like a commercial for a bar. A really lame commercial.

[Embedded content]

Ah, Electronic Dance Muzak.

*gack*

90
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 2:07:49am

re: #89 Dr Lizardo

Ah, Electronic Dance Muzak.

*gack*

Well, it could be “Music for Airports.”

91
Dr Lizardo  Dec 22, 2017 • 2:13:02am

re: #86 I cannot.

I mean, there is SOMETHING to be said for cryptocurrency…but “BUY NOW, INVEST YOUR LIFE SAVINGS INTO IT, MORTGAGE YOUR HOUSE IF YOU CAN!” ain’t the thing to say about it.

I was alive for the mortgage bubble, the dot com bubble, junk bonds, silver and gold, S&Ls… I’ve seen this play before, I know how the final act goes.

Tulip mania.

92
Pineapple Pizzagate  Dec 22, 2017 • 2:31:50am

re: #90 Anymouse 🌹

Brian Eno - Ambient 1: Music for Airports (1978) (Full Album) [HQ]

93
Dr Lizardo  Dec 22, 2017 • 2:59:47am

re: #92 Pineapple Pizzagate

Elevator Music 1 hour

94
I cannot.  Dec 22, 2017 • 3:03:39am

Watching Netflix’s Bright now. This is a hella fun movie, I don’t know the mythos of the world it’s set in, but I want to know EVERYTHING about it now.

95
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 3:34:30am

re: #92 Pineapple Pizzagate

You’re not trying to start a food fight here with your name, are you?

96
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 22, 2017 • 4:35:58am

Facebook Post

My prayer for this administration is the same one offered recently for Fox News, Psalm 31:18
“Let their lying lips be silenced,
for with pride and contempt
they speak arrogantly against the righteous.”

97
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 4:43:46am
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meteor  Dec 22, 2017 • 4:43:55am
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Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 22, 2017 • 4:46:07am

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MsJ  Dec 22, 2017 • 4:49:40am

re: #36 Dave In Austin

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Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 4:51:04am

We’ve gone into the basement on temperatures (-4).

102
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2017 • 4:54:07am
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103
MsJ  Dec 22, 2017 • 4:54:48am

re: #53 teleskiguy

Carl Hiaasen’s books “Kick Ass” and “Paradise Screwed” - collections of his columns in the Miami Herald - showcase how dumb, bizarre, vain, and utterly corrupt the powerful can be in Florida. Good reads.

With that said, this does not surprise me in the slightest.

Hiassen’s books are the best. I think there’s corrupt Florida officials in all his books.

Abs isn’t Pam Biondi (sic), the DA whose on Fox of late, whose taken a good sized bribe, I mean donation, to buy her caseload (or lack thereof) from Florida?

104
MsJ  Dec 22, 2017 • 4:58:11am

re: #57 goddamnedfrank

Isn’t the Papa John guy the same one who was whining on national TV (during a football game, IIRC) about having to raise the price of his shitty pizza by a dime to give his workers healthcare some years ago?

105
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:00:40am

re: #103 MsJ

Hiassen’s books are the best. I think there’s corrupt Florida officials in all his books.

Abs isn’t Pam Biondi (sic), the DA whose on Fox of late, whose taken a good sized bribe, I mean donation, to buy her caseload (or lack thereof) from Florida?

Yes, Pam Bondi is Florida’s AG. While Florida was investigating potential crime by Trump University, she received what was later determined a campaign contribution from Donald Trump and the case went away.

106
dangerman  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:01:30am

GOP Groups Plan Big Marketing Push to Sell Tax Plan

gee, if it’s such a great idea, i wonder why they would need to do that?

107
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:03:55am

Not sure how reliable this is, but it is certainly something to work toward:

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108
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:09:12am

Christians authors calling for a “National Day of Repentance” from Donald Trump.

They are trying to conflate it with a different proclamation that Abraham Lincoln made (that wasn’t the same thing).

Christian Authors Are Encouraging Trump To Proclaim A National Day Of Repentance

109
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:12:33am

re: #108 Anymouse 🌹

Christians authors calling for a “National Day of Repentance” from Donald Trump.

They are trying to conflate it with a different proclamation that Abraham Lincoln made (that wasn’t the same thing).

[Embedded content]

Trump will tell them he has nothing to repent because he never sinned.

110
wheat-dogg  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:13:46am

re: #104 MsJ

Isn’t the Papa John guy the same one who was whining on national TV (during a football game, IIRC) about having to raise the price of his shitty pizza by a dime to give his workers healthcare some years ago?

The very same.

111
wheat-dogg  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:14:20am

re: #107 Anymouse 🌹

Not sure how reliable this is, but it is certainly something to work toward:

[Embedded content]

Gee, Mitch, you think?

112
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:21:53am

Well, it’s down to -5F here, so I think I’m going to go snuggle under a pile of blankets.

I guess Winter is here.

Good night, folks.

113
MsJ  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:23:23am

re: #107 Anymouse 🌹

Not sure how reliable this is, but it is certainly something to work toward:

[Embedded content]

Kinda makes your heart sing, doesn’t it?

114
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:26:54am

re: #108 Anymouse 🌹

Christians authors calling for a “National Day of Repentance” from Donald Trump.

They are trying to conflate it with a different proclamation that Abraham Lincoln made (that wasn’t the same thing).

[Embedded content]

Pretty funny since Trump never repents over a damned thing.

115
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:29:12am

re: #102 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Busted. I remember this guy though. He’s the one who used the racist Chinese ad.

116
Dave In Austin  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:31:27am
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117
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:31:48am

Former Kentucky State Rep. Linda Belcher (D), who lost the last election to the late Dan Johnson (R) by a handful of votes, says she’ll run for the seat again if an election is called.

Johnson’s wife Rebecca accuses the newspaper of orchestrating a smear campaign, and Mrs. Belcher of working with “leftist organisations” (unnamed) to sabotage her husband.

Mrs. Belcher notes the pain of losing a husband (her husband died some time ago) but says she has nothing to do with the newspaper’s investigation of Rep. Johnson except for being asked a couple questions by a reporter.

courier-journal.com

118
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:34:46am

re: #86 I cannot.

Back in the day, when the Hunt Bros were trying to corner the market in silver, I knew an unmarried couple where one took the other’s life savings of $15,000 to invest in silver after the huge run-up . At least silver was a real commodity, so when it crashed, there was some residual value. Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies — not so much.

119
Eventual Carrion  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:41:45am

Wonder how an add like this one from 1915 would go over today :-)

ADDED: Found in an old 1915 edition of Scientific American.

120
MsJ  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:47:01am
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121
jeffreyw  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:47:42am

Imgur
Good morning!

122
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:49:15am

re: #119 Eventual Carrion

Wonder how an add like this one from 1915 would go over today :-)

[Embedded content]

ADDED: Found in an old 1915 edition of Scientific American.

Of course, today they would have to include a disclaimer in fine print that none of the assertions have actually been verified by scientific study.

123
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:54:59am

Happy holiday Friday all… I work a short day then don’t go back until Jan 3. Planned a day or two to really do nothing, but also going out for some film making and stills for my documentary “May Last Forever”. The 100 year history of the jewelry district in Los Angeles

124
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2017 • 5:55:55am

re: #120 MsJ

[Embedded content]

Lol. What a bunch of drama queens.

125
Anymouse 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:02:09am

I leave you with a mind-blowing statement I got from a meme (so it’s not original with me):

On one day (Dec. 31, 2017), all minors will have been born in the 2000’s and all adults will have been born in the 1900’s.

126
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:03:37am

re: #82 goddamnedfrank

Bubble go pop!

[Embedded content]

I sold mine last week.

127
lawhawk  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:04:07am

re: #12 jaunte

And Trump ambassador Jon Huntsman was pushing for that deal while he was Utah governor.

But yeah, let’s call this a Clinton “scandal” when there’s zero evidence of scandal, let alone wrongdoing or criminality.

It’s a motherfucking witch hunt designed to take attention off Trump’s ongoing scandals.

In fact, Sessions promised to recuse himself from election related issues, and this is one. Therefore, he’s violating his own promise, but no one is going to hold him accountable - especially the GOP that controls Congress.

128
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:06:09am

re: #125 Anymouse 🌹

I leave you with a mind-blowing statement I got from a meme (so it’s not original with me):

On one day (Dec. 31, 2017), all minors will have been born in the 2000’s and all adults will have been born in the 1900’s.

That’s how I feel buying beer or tobacco. You see the youngest a person can buy those products and you can actually remember 1996 and 1999.

129
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:08:43am

Effing AP “news“…

Missing the #1 offender… Marital Rapist Donald Trump
130
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:08:49am

re: #125 Anymouse 🌹

I leave you with a mind-blowing statement I got from a meme (so it’s not original with me):

On one day (Dec. 31, 2017), all minors will have been born in the 2000’s and all adults will have been born in the 1900’s.

A Chilean man Don Celino is reported to have been born in 1896!

131
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:10:16am

How is it possible that so many people are completely unaware that capital investments, the kind that create jobs, are TAX DEDUCTIBLE? Tax cuts do not stimulate investment. It is the other way around.

132
MsJ  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:10:23am

I know it’s Seth, but I just had to.

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133
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:11:33am

re: #131 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

How is it possible that so many people are completely unaware that capital investments, the kind that create jobs, are TAX DEDUCTIBLE? Tax cuts do not stimulate investment. It is the other way around.

[Embedded content]

I like wide view social spending the same way. I see it as investing in your citizen body.

134
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:21:52am

re: #131 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

How is it possible that so many people are completely unaware that capital investments, the kind that create jobs, are TAX DEDUCTIBLE? Tax cuts do not stimulate investment. It is the other way around.

[Embedded content]

But dividends aren’t. This allows corporations to pay more to their shareholders. And the whole purpose of this revision to the tax code is to enrich the rich.

135
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:27:51am

re: #90 Anymouse 🌹

Well, it could be “Music for Airports.”

It’s kinda both. It’s almost not fair to call it EDM, because I can see validity in some EDM.

Someone described their look as ‘milquetoast.’ Fits their music, too. Just a lite-calorie music replica that you hear and instantly forget.

I get a lot of work because I can listen to and retain a lot of songs. I can’t even remember what the songs I listened to last night were about, or a melody, or even an interesting production idea.

And since they’re doing a gig for Thernovich and his thugs, I guess we can call their music ‘alt-interesting.’

136
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:34:11am

re: #102 The Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

And then he denies even saying ‘fake news’ right after he fucking said it.

These people are all insane.

137
HappyWarrior  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:36:10am

re: #136 makeitstop

And then he denies even saying ‘fake news’ right after he fucking said it.

These people are all insane.

If not Trump, they would have found someone else. It’s all so messed up. That reporter was very calm with him considering the guy lied about the reality of day to day life in his country. FWIW I felt very safe in Amsterdam.

138
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:37:27am

re: #12 jaunte

Uranium One deal was approved by:

1. The President
2. Nuclear Regulatory Comm.
3. Treasury
4. Justice
5. Homeland Security
6. Commerce
7. Pentagon
8. State Dept.
9. Energy
10. USTR
11. OSTP
12. State of Utah
13. Canada

Just shows how deep the Deep State goes these days…jeez, they even got Utah

139
lawhawk  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:41:13am

Greets and saluts from the Resistance in the NYC metro area.

Recall Trump and GOP claims they used to sell the tax scam:
1) It’s simplification. This is a full-on lie. This scam adds serious complexity to the IRC because of phase outs and additional limitations, plus new tax provisions. This adds loopholes and additional tax avoidance maneuvers

2) It’s going to help the middle class. This is a muddled mess. Some middle class might see a limited benefit for a limited time, because the personal income tax cuts are all designed to be temporary so that the scam can meet the rules for passage (but not the smell test). There’s CBO and JCT scoring that shows a significant percentage of taxpayers see no benefit or actually have to pay more thanks to this scam.

3) This will grow the economy. Even the most positive spin for this (aka dynamic scoring) suggests 0.2% growth resulting from the tax scam. In return, we add $1.5 trillion in debt and reduce Obamacare funding by eliminating the individual mandate funding mechanism.

4) This will be passed this year. That’s debatable. If Trump signs it this year, then pay-go rules will kick in and Medicare and other fed programs see mandatory cuts unless the GOP votes to override pay-go sequester rules. If they vote to override, that’s admission that fiscal responsibility is dead letter for GOP because it’ll add the $1.5 trillion to debt. If it waits to be signed until after January 1, the pay-go hits in 2019, after the Midterms (all the more reason to GOTV!).

5) The tax benefits will be felt immediately. This too is debatable, but verges on outright lie. Ivanka and others are claiming that they’ll see tax benefits in April, but April 2018 is the due date for the 2017 tax year, which was not affected by the tax scam. The first year that taxpayers could feel the benefit directly is the April 2019 tax return, which is for 2018 tax year. That the GOP and Ivanka are pushing this so hard shows that they don’t understand where/how taxes are paid, and they’re flat out lying about the consequences of their actions. Both are true - and the latter would bounce back to them because they’re promising something that is indisputably bogus.

140
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:47:48am

re: #139 lawhawk

5)The first year that taxpayers could feel the benefit directly is the April 2019 tax return, which is for 2018 tax year. That the GOP and Ivanka are pushing this so hard shows that they don’t understand where/how taxes are paid, and they’re flat out lying about the consequences of their actions.

And enough middle income people will derive enough short-term benefit from them to decide they should still vote GOP.

141
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:48:04am

re: #136 makeitstop

And then he denies even saying ‘fake news’ right after he fucking said it.

These people are all insane.

They are not insane; they are pathological liars. They have learned that there is no penalty for telling an untruth if it fits in with the conservative storyline. Their supporters don’t care and will repeat lies, even when proved untrue.

142
lawhawk  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:50:55am

re: #139 lawhawk

6) The tax scam unleashes corporate spending on wages and hiring. This is another muddled mess unsupported by historical reaction to prior tax cuts. This bill gives preferences to passthroughs and corps to continue funneling income to shareholders, not employees. Investors make out like bandits, while everyone else sees the burdens as the debt piles up.

7) Trump touts the companies announcing bonuses and wage hikes of a select few companies. Decisions like this are made months in advance, and bonuses are usually done at the end of year. Some companies, like Comcast and ATT are making these announcements in concert with decisions pending before the Admin to approve certain rules like net neutrality or mergers with other companies. They’re gaming the system to maximize their profits, and to saddle everyone else with costs.

143
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:51:43am

re: #140 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

And enough middle income people will derive enough short-term benefit from them to decide they should still vote GOP.

It’s the narrative that matters, not the “truth” or what the taxpayer may actually experience. As long as we can control that, and shout down the Fox/WSJ/Brietbart liars, we have a chance to change minds.

144
Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:51:52am

The central point of Al Franken’s farewell address was that it is good to have arguments, but it’s only productive when both sides argue in good faith. He hammered home the point that the current GOP’s movement is predicated on lies and that that has to been fought against with everything the Democrats have.

145
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:52:08am

This is pretty good, especially if you are in a red state.
28 Reasons I’m DONE Talking To My Conservative Friends And Family

146
Unshaken Defiance  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:53:14am

We are past the point of debating the veracity of the administration. The fact is established the word of this President has no value, apart from measuring the depths of deceit.

I think we can stop spending time on that and get straight to resistance and removal. By any non violent means.

147
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:56:54am

re: #139 lawhawk

……
5) The tax benefits will be felt immediately. This too is debatable, but verges on outright lie. Ivanka and others are claiming that they’ll see tax benefits in April, but April 2018 is the due date for the 2017 tax year, which was not affected by the tax scam. The first year that taxpayers could feel the benefit directly is the April 2019 tax return, which is for 2018 tax year. That the GOP and Ivanka are pushing this so hard shows that they don’t understand where/how taxes are paid, and they’re flat out lying about the consequences of their actions. Both are true - and the latter would bounce back to them because they’re promising something that is indisputably bogus.

Actually, it can be felt immediately because take home pay in early 2018 may be increased a small amount.

148
lawhawk  Dec 22, 2017 • 6:59:38am

re: #147 Hecuba’s daughter

May be felt. Some folks might see some reduction in payroll withholding - and therefore a bigger paycheck, but others will see a smaller paycheck thanks to eliminating stuff like the transit benefit (again hitting blue states disproportionately, and urban areas even more).

149
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:02:46am

We are all awaiting his PERMANENT departure from the WH

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150
jeffreyw  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:05:19am

re: #149 The Vicious Babushka

We are all awaiting his PERMANENT departure from the WH

[Embedded content]

So say we all.

151
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:07:23am

re: #148 lawhawk

May be felt. Some folks might see some reduction in payroll withholding - and therefore a bigger paycheck, but others will see a smaller paycheck thanks to eliminating stuff like the transit benefit (again hitting blue states disproportionately, and urban areas even more).

One of the main purposes of this legislation is to punish blue states and force them to operate like red states. For all conservative blather about the 10th amendment and state’s rights (and my brother lectures us about that all the time), they care only about red states and want to force every state to emulate the way they operate.

152
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:12:48am

This proves that Trump has NO FUCKING CLUE where money for missiles comes from. He thinks it comes from the Missile Fairy.

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153
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:15:24am

re: #152 The Vicious Babushka

This proves that Trump has NO FUCKING CLUE where money for missiles comes from. He thinks it comes from the Missile Fairy.

[Embedded content]

So — does that mean a big cut to Medicare in 2018?

154
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:16:59am

re: #153 Hecuba’s daughter

So — does that mean a big cut to Medicare in 2018?

Who among us would not gladly give up our Medicare to pay for MOAR MISSILES?

155
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:18:01am

re: #134 Hecuba’s daughter

But dividends aren’t. This allows corporations to pay more to their shareholders. And the whole purpose of this revision to the tax code is to enrich the rich.

A pathetic number of people are still buying the trickle down/stimulus argument. I am showing that it is a scam, not saying that the Repubs have failed in any kind of actual objective. The latter, as you say, is to enrich the rich.
I personally think that the longer term objective is to create a more highly stratified society, an essentially feudal society in which hereditary privilege will be absolutely safe and dominant. The assaults on education and the free press are other aspects of this same effort.

156
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:18:32am

re: #145 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

This is pretty good, especially if you are in a red state.
28 Reasons I’m DONE Talking To My Conservative Friends And Family

The article was pretty good.

Then I read the comments, and now I want to smash my laptop.

157
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:20:40am

re: #151 Hecuba’s daughter

One of the main purposes of this legislation is to punish blue states and force them to operate like red states. For all conservative blather about the 10th amendment and state’s rights (and my brother lectures us about that all the time), they care only about red states and want to force every state to emulate the way they operate.

you mean like with reciprocal open-carry laws?

or the Fugitive Slave Act?

158
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:21:43am

re: #145 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

This is pretty good, especially if you are in a red state.
28 Reasons I’m DONE Talking To My Conservative Friends And Family

My daughter, now adult, was adopted from Korea, so she looks like many people in Korea look. To put that in conservative talk, she ain’t white. Her children, my wonderful grandchildren, are what the racists would call half-breeds or conservatives would call mixed race, mysonin-law is from Mumbai India, and surprise he looks like what many people from India look like (which is quite different from how people further south in India look like) or as the conservatives would call him “[bigoted word]”, “terrorist threat”, etc. because of course they all look alike. So I hope you understand why I have NOTHING to do with anyone who supports Drumpf or the conservative party. At this point, anyone who does not actively oppose the conservative movement is aiding and abetting treason and facilitating genocide. They are not nice people. I don’t care how many puppies they cuddle, how much they donate to church, there were plenty of that type in Germany 1935. I believe they were known as “good Germans”. In my view, you shun them. You don’t have to be an asshole, a simple “I’m sorry, I don’t socialize with people who have your beliefs” will do. If you choose to do different, maybe its because you have nothing to lose.

159
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:22:19am

re: #145 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

This is pretty good, especially if you are in a red state.
28 Reasons I’m DONE Talking To My Conservative Friends And Family

When it comes to discussing Trump in a public place or family gathering, all I say is that I do not think he is qualified, either in terms of background or character, to be President and nothing he has said or dome so far has led me to change that opinion.

I do not go into any details.

160
lawhawk  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:22:58am

re: #153 Hecuba’s daughter

So — does that mean a big cut to Medicare in 2018?

Under pay-go rules (aka the sequester), the answer is yes unless the GOP moves to suspend the rule as applied to their tax scam.

Suspending the rule would mean that the GOP is admitting fiscal responsibility is bullshit and that all of their insistence to have offsets and reduce spending by Obama during the heart of the great recession was all politically motivated when the only thing the GOP cares about are tax cuts.

If the GOP allows pay-go to operate, then it would mean dramatic and deep cuts to a wide range of federal programs.

161
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:33:54am

re: #158 Old Liberal

My daughter, now adult, was adopted from Korea, so she looks like many people in Korea look. To put that in conservative talk, she ain’t white. Her children, my wonderful grandchildren, are what the racists would call half-breeds or conservatives would call mixed race, mysonin-law is from Mumbai India, and surprise he looks like what many people from India look like (which is quite different from how people further south in India look like) or as the conservatives would call him “[bigoted word]”, “terrorist threat”, etc. because of course they all look alike. So I hope you understand why I have NOTHING to do with anyone who supports Drumpf or the conservative party. At this point, anyone who does not actively oppose the conservative movement is aiding and abetting treason and facilitating genocide. They are not nice people. I don’t care how many puppies they cuddle, how much they donate to church, there were plenty of that type in Germany 1935. I believe they were known as “good Germans”. In my view, you shun them. You don’t have to be an asshole, a simple “I’m sorry, I don’t socialize with people who have your beliefs” will do. If you choose to do different, maybe its because you have nothing to lose.

Who is “you” in this response?

162
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:34:49am

re: #161 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Who is “you” in this response?

If you look in the mirror and see yourself, then make your own conclusion.

163
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:36:44am

re: #162 Old Liberal

If you look in the mirror and see yourself, then make your own conclusion.

WTF? Did you not read the article? Do you think I am advocating acceptance of conservative bigotry?

164
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:38:38am

re: #163 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

WTF? Did you not read the article? Do you think I am advocating acceptance of conservative bigotry?

I am not. I am stating that I, me, just me, does not accept that simply NOT TALKING ABOUT IT is not appropriate. I shun them. You and whoever can do whatever you want.

165
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:40:55am

Heydrich was a cultured gentle family man. Goebbels had lovely children that could have appeared in The Sound of Music. Hitler like children and dogs. And there were people who did not want to rock the boat so they agreed “not to talk about it” and continue to socialize.

166
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:43:02am
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167
Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:44:21am

re: #165 Old Liberal

Heydrich was a cultured gentle family man. Goebbels had lovely children that could have appeared in The Sound of Music. Hitler like children and dogs. And there were people who did not want to rock the boat so they agreed “not to talk about it” and continue to socialize.

Compare me and the author to Nazi collaborators? You can go to hell, asshole.

168
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:45:04am

re: #165 Old Liberal

Heydrich was a cultured gentle family man. Goebbels had lovely children that could have appeared in The Sound of Music. Hitler like children and dogs. And there were people who did not want to rock the boat so they agreed “not to talk about it” and continue to socialize.

One of Goebbels’ triumphs was not to let ideology seep too heavily into popular entertainment: people went on watching films and reading fiction that portrayed life in Germany as normal without a fascist in sight.

169
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:45:21am

re: #157 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

you mean like with reciprocal open-carry laws?

or the Fugitive Slave Act?

Yep!

170
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:47:56am

re: #160 lawhawk

Under pay-go rules (aka the sequester), the answer is yes unless the GOP moves to suspend the rule as applied to their tax scam.

Suspending the rule would mean that the GOP is admitting fiscal responsibility is bullshit and that all of their insistence to have offsets and reduce spending by Obama during the heart of the great recession was all politically motivated when the only thing the GOP cares about are tax cuts.

If the GOP allows pay-go to operate, then it would mean dramatic and deep cuts to a wide range of federal programs.

I thought that the signing was going to be delayed to January to prevent the cuts to social programs in an election year.

171
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:49:46am

re: #170 Hecuba’s daughter

I thought that the signing was going to be delayed to January to prevent the cuts to social programs in an election year.

That would have been the prudent thing, but Trump wants a big pre-Christmas TV gala

172
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:52:18am

re: #167 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

Compare me and the author to Nazi collaborators? You can go to hell, asshole.

I will explain one more time. I did not accuse you of anything. I do not know you. I am saying that for me, NOT TALKING ABOUT IT is no an option. I shun them. I shun them because THEY ARE NOT NICE PEOPLE. My definition of nice people is, people who do not support racism and traitors. If someone wants to sweep it under the rug and pretend that their neighbor/relative/friend is not really advocating white supremacy or treason, that is their decision to make. We are at Defcon 10 folks. But do what you want to do. I will shun.

173
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 7:54:18am

re: #101 Anymouse 🌹

We’ve gone into the basement on temperatures (-4).

And food puns.

174
retired cynic  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:01:37am

re: #107 Anymouse 🌹

Not sure how reliable this is, but it is certainly something to work toward:

[Embedded content]

Let it be so.

175
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:02:31am

Joe Strummer is gone 15 years today. The man was prescient.

The Clash - Clampdown

176
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:03:11am

re: #171 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

That would have been the prudent thing, but Trump wants a big pre-Christmas TV gala

Yep. He needs that 2017 ‘win.’ Fuck everybody else.

177
Eventual Carrion  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:06:36am

re: #176 makeitstop

Yep. He needs that 2017 ‘win.’ Fuck everybody else.

As for me I’m glad he is doing it now and will force that issue sooner than later. Might be harder to explain that to the voters in an elections year, and it will stay with them the whole time since it will be directly affecting them.

178
sagehen  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:07:54am

re: #134 Hecuba’s daughter

But dividends aren’t. This allows corporations to pay more to their shareholders. And the whole purpose of this revision to the tax code is to enrich the rich.

Also when individual tax rates were ultra high, tax avoidance meant those dividends ended up being used for the public good. The whole reason the Rockefeller Foundation and Ford Foundation used to have so much cash, and made so many grants, is because John D Rockefeller and Henry Ford’s grandchildren couldn’t keep much of the money anyway, or spend it on personal toys, so they used the foundations to build social capital and make themselves The People Who Shaped American Greatness.

179
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:08:03am

re: #177 Eventual Carrion

As for me I’m glad he is doing it now and will force that issue sooner than later. Might be harder to explain that to the voters in an elections year, and it will stay with them the whole time since it will be directly affecting them.

“Harder to explain”? No, he’ll just lie, like he always does.

180
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:10:06am

Keep hitting them. Like this.

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Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:10:34am

re: #179 The Vicious Babushka

“Harder to explain”? No, he’ll just lie, like he always does.

He’s not the only one. There doesn’t seem to be a single honest Republican in Washington — or maybe even in office these days.

182
Eventual Carrion  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:10:38am

re: #179 The Vicious Babushka

“Harder to explain”? No, he’ll just lie, like he always does.

But at least it will force them to try rather than just ignore warnings that the situation is coming, the situation will already be there.

183
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:12:08am

This tax cut isn’t made to enrich the rich, or even to buy GOP votes for 2018. At some level it is designed to destroy the Federal budget, permitting a return to the pre-FDR social order. It’s purpose is to punish Them, drive Them back into servitude, and keep a legal boot on Their necks.

“Them” are not all Black and Latino.

184
The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:12:46am

re: #182 Eventual Carrion

But at least it will force them to try rather than just ignore warnings that the situation is coming, the situation will already be there.

Nope, they will just deny that the situation exists. FAKE NEWS!!!!

185
William Lewis  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:14:34am

re: #175 makeitstop

Joe Strummer is gone 15 years today. The man was prescient.

[Embedded content]

Johnny Cash & Joe Strummer - Redemption Song

Damn I miss them both…

186
FormerDirtDart  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:15:35am
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A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:18:56am

re: #184 The Vicious Babushka

Nope, they will just deny that the situation exists. FAKE NEWS!!!!

That stops working when one is personally affected.

188
austin_blue  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:19:08am

Well, he signed the tax bill and killed the Republican Party this morning.

189
sagehen  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:19:31am

re: #139 lawhawk

Greets and saluts from the Resistance in the NYC metro area.

2) It’s going to help the middle class. This is a muddled mess. Some middle class might see a limited benefit for a limited time, because the personal income tax cuts are all designed to be temporary so that the scam can meet the rules for passage (but not the smell test). There’s CBO and JCT scoring that shows a significant percentage of taxpayers see no benefit or actually have to pay more thanks to this scam.

It will (temporarily) help the middle class in red states, and immediately screw the middle class in blue states. This is deliberate.

5) The tax benefits will be felt immediately. This too is debatable, but verges on outright lie. Ivanka and others are claiming that they’ll see tax benefits in April, but April 2018 is the due date for the 2017 tax year, which was not affected by the tax scam. The first year that taxpayers could feel the benefit directly is the April 2019 tax return, which is for 2018 tax year.

He signed it this morning.

190
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:22:26am

re: #188 austin_blue

Well, he signed the tax bill and killed the Republican Party this morning.

2018 is gonna be a fuckin’ rough year. They know they’re going down and they’re going to set fire to the place on the way out.

191
Schweppes7  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:26:18am

re: #186 FormerDirtDart

I cannot get over how humiliating this video is. After calling his own statement fake news, the ambassador is confronted with it by video then denies having used the term fake news seconds earlier. I am embarrassed that this man was chosen to represent the United States and yet somehow he is the perfect fit to represent Trump’s America to the world…

192
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:28:17am

re: #191 Schweppes7

I cannot get over how humiliating this video is.

It would only be humiliating if he had to face any consequences for his words.

193
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:29:43am

re: #167 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

re: #172 Old Liberal

Hey guys — let’s calm down here. We are on the same side.

I have friends and family who support Trump. One of them said to me yesterday that we remain friends because we usually avoid political discussions. I know that I get very heated in political conversations with my brother as he regurgitates every RW talking point (except Pizzagate and Obama being ineligible — those are the only ones he never bought into). What we need to do is find arguments that can persuade the less delusional/racist among them to reconsider their views.

194
Schweppes7  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:29:51am

re: #192 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I meant that I found it humiliating as an American he represents. I assume that like most republicans, this man is completely shameless.

195
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:31:04am

re: #193 Hecuba’s daughter

What we need to do is find arguments that can persuade the less delusional/racist among them to reconsider their views.

I do not see that possible, especially in the current media climate.

196
sagehen  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:32:54am

re: #175 makeitstop

Joe Strummer is gone 15 years today. The man was prescient.

[Embedded content]

As was Jello Biafra.

Dead Kennedys - Kill the Poor Music Video

197
Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:33:18am

re: #193 Hecuba’s daughter

Hey guys — let’s calm down here. We are on the same side.

I have friends and family who support Trump. One of them said to me yesterday that we remain friends because we usually avoid political discussions. I know that I get very heated in political conversations with my brother as he regurgitates every RW talking point (except Pizzagate and Obama being ineligible — those are the only ones he never bought into). What we need to do is find arguments that can persuade the less delusional/racist among them to reconsider their views.

I find that the Republicans around me who aren’t showing their delusion are avoiding talking about politics because they don’t want to be challenged.

198
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:36:00am

re: #195 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

I do not see that possible, especially in the current media climate.

Wendell, I share that viewpoint. With many of these peoples, they don’t get their ideas FROM fox news, they watch fox news because it REINFORCES their views. This is baked in. Nothing short of an economic depression will shake them, and then they are more likely to support the Nazi over the Socialist. We saw this movie before. FDR (and the people who supported him) saved this nation from fascism.

199
meteor  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:39:33am

re: #175 makeitstop

Memory eternal.

200
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:39:34am

re: #96 Shiplord Kirel, live from behind wingnut lines

[Embedded content]

My prayer for this administration is the same one offered recently for Fox News, Psalm 31:18
“Let their lying lips be silenced,
for with pride and contempt
they speak arrogantly against the righteous.”

I’ll pray to the Flying Spaghettti Monster that Mueller will whip Caligula’s ass ASAP!

201
ObserverArt  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:41:49am

re: #175 makeitstop

Joe Strummer is gone 15 years today. The man was prescient.

[Embedded content]

15 years. Damn.

One of my favs…

Joe Strummer & The Mescaleros - Coma Girl

202
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:43:37am

re: #193 Hecuba’s daughter

Hey guys — let’s calm down here. We are on the same side.

I have friends and family who support Trump. One of them said to me yesterday that we remain friends because we usually avoid political discussions. I know that I get very heated in political conversations with my brother as he regurgitates every RW talking point (except Pizzagate and Obama being ineligible — those are the only ones he never bought into). What we need to do is find arguments that can persuade the less delusional/racist among them to reconsider their views.

I hope you can understand that I am not accepting of your friends and family who support a regime that encourages violence and discrimination against my children, grandchildren, and family. I hope you can understand that having my 6 year old grandson called “chin k” is not ok, and the people who still support the conservatives are complicit. I shun.

203
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:45:11am

re: #185 William Lewis

This group is consciously modelled on The Clash. Note how they work an Irish tune into the first version of the Italian partisan song.

Pay attention to the faces in the old photos. (Also some of the battle dress—one can still “fare una bella figura” even when hunting Nazis in the mountains.)

Bella Ciao - Modena City Ramblers

204
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:48:17am

re: #198 Old Liberal

Wendell, I share that viewpoint. With many of these peoples, they don’t get their ideas FROM fox news, they watch fox news because it REINFORCES their views. This is baked in. Nothing short of an economic depression will shake them, and then they are more likely to support the Nazi over the Socialist. We saw this movie before. FDR (and the people who supported him) saved this nation from fascism.

My friend who avoids politics with me also detests corporate America; his only comment on the tax bill was his disapproval of limiting our SALT deductions. Unfortunately, he is a one issue voter — anti-choice. He can certainly be persuaded on economic issues.

Another one hates the tax bill — but he is a personal friend of Joel Pollack and so buys into all kinds of ridiculous theories. However, he again is someone persuadable on economic issues.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:48:24am

the bullshit is stunning

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allegro  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:49:44am

Hate is hate, on both sides. Hearing a lot of it here right now. Just sayin’.

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Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:51:25am

re: #204 Hecuba’s daughter

My friend who avoids politics with me also detests corporate America; his only comment on the tax bill was his disapproval of limiting our SALT deductions. Unfortunately, he is a one issue voter — anti-choice. He can certainly be persuaded on economic issues.

Another one hates the tax bill — but he is a personal friend of Joel Pollack and so buys into all kinds of ridiculous theories. However, he again is someone persuadable on economic issues.

We know, it is proven, that anti-abortion people will vote for a child molester. Ask them if Hitler ran and promised to kill the Jews but outlaw abortion, who would they choose? They will refuse to answer. I shun.

208
Oblongatis  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:51:42am

A reading from the book of Paul, apostle of Rand

“Blessed be the job creators; for the crumbs from their feast shall be ours”

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Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:53:18am

re: #202 Old Liberal

I hope you can understand that I am not accepting of your friends and family who support a regime that encourages violence and discrimination against my children, grandchildren, and family. I hope you can understand that having my 6 year old grandson called “chin k” is not ok, and the people who still support the conservatives are complicit. I shun.

The people I know may be racist but definitely not against Asians — and I have never heard any ever use that kind of language.

210
Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:53:29am

re: #206 allegro

Hate is hate, on both sides. Hearing a lot of it here right now. Just sayin’.

They hate me for being a liberal. I hate them for killing children, the sick, and the elderly.

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Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:53:44am

re: #207 Old Liberal

We know, it is proven, that anti-abortion people will vote for a child molester.

Jesus will forgive a child molester but never forgive a baby killer.

/

212
ObserverArt  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:54:00am

re: #206 allegro

Hate is hate, on both sides. Hearing a lot of it here right now. Just sayin’.

The 2016 election has messed this country up. This forum is a reflection of that.

edit…2016. I am not on my game these days.

213
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:58:03am

re: #209 Hecuba’s daughter

The people I know may be racist but definitely not against Asians — and I have never heard any ever use that kind of language.

If my grandchildren were of African American background, would your post be different? And if so, why should I not be upset that someone else is being persecuted? No, because I have just a smidge of their pain, I would understand and support my people who were born with a darker hue of skin. I shun.

214
allegro  Dec 22, 2017 • 8:59:01am

re: #204 Hecuba’s daughter

My friend who avoids politics with me also detests corporate America; his only comment on the tax bill was his disapproval of limiting our SALT deductions. Unfortunately, he is a one issue voter — anti-choice. He can certainly be persuaded on economic issues.

Another one hates the tax bill — but he is a personal friend of Joel Pollack and so buys into all kinds of ridiculous theories. However, he again is someone persuadable on economic issues.

Of my dearest friends of many years is conservative. Not a Trumper at all but a full-on GOPer who doesn’t or won’t see that they are the same critter right now. We largely avoid ideological discussion but can have excellent talks on specific issues. She was all in on the Obamacare hatred until she saw someone she cared about, i.e. me , being saved by it after I had cancer and was unable to get health insurance at any price. She is now actually a supporter of Single Payer, having had her eyes opened. That is just one example of the difference we really can make. Can we do that with all of them? No. But joining in on the hatred of The Other is not a place I will go.

215
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:03:09am

re: #212 ObserverArt

The 2017 election has messed this country up. This forum is a reflection of that.

This country was messed up before the 2016 election. The McConnell treatment of Garland; the GOP treatment of Obama during his entire stay in office; the million efforts to repeal Obamacare. Reagan did a lot of damage as did W. It is the GOP who created this monster of a tax bill, not Trump. It is the GOP that wants to destroy all benefit programs that help the poor, not Trump.

Let’s see what happens with Mueller and the 2018/2020 elections before we write this country off.

216
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:03:35am

re: #214 allegro

Of my dearest friends of many years is conservative. Not a Trumper at all but a full-on GOPer who doesn’t or won’t see that they are the same critter right now. We largely avoid ideological discussion but can have excellent talks on specific issues. She was all in on the Obamacare hatred until she saw someone she cared about, i.e. me , being saved by it after I had cancer and was unable to get health insurance at any price. She is now actually a supporter of Single Payer, having had her eyes opened. That is just one example of the difference we really can make. Can we do that with all of them? No. But joining in on the hatred of The Other is not a place I will go.

I do not hate them. I simply will not ignore their racism and white supremacy. If I were a baker, I would even make their cake for them. I simply will not socialize with people who are not nice people, who are racist and support traitors. If that is hate, well, call me a hater. I shun.

217
Interesting Times  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:04:12am

re: #214 allegro

She is now actually a supporter of Single Payer, having had her eyes opened. That is just one example of the difference we really can make. Can we do that with all of them? No. But joining in on the hatred of The Other is not a place I will go.

I think the key factor is being able to differentiate between those who are ignorant in the traditional sense of the word (e.g. don’t know gay people personally, brainwashed by wingnut family/fox), and those who are willfully ignorant (e.g. the gaslighting jerks who’ll repeat the same damn lie even if it’s been debunked right in front of their face).

The former are reachable, the latter are not.

218
Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:05:19am

re: #215 Hecuba’s daughter

This country was messed up before the 2016 election. The McConnell treatment of Garland; the GOP treatment of Obama during his entire stay in office; the million efforts to repeal Obamacare. Reagan did a lot of damage as did W. It is the GOP who created this monster of a tax bill, not Trump. It is the GOP that wants to destroy all benefit programs that help the poor, not Trump.

Let’s see what happens with Mueller and the 2018/2020 elections before we write this country off.

I refuse to write the country off. I have a few decades left and I have kids. And I am an optimist. I just also live around the kind of people that would give a homeless man a dollar and then refuse to fund the shelter he could stay in at night.

219
Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:06:10am

re: #217 Interesting Times

I think the key factor is being able to differentiate between those who are ignorant in the traditional sense of the word (e.g. don’t know gay people personally, brainwashed by wingnut family/fox), and those who are willfully ignorant (e.g. the gaslighting jerks who’ll repeat the same damn lie even if it’s been debunked right in front of their face).

The former are reachable, the latter are not.

Plus, it really would be nice if some people could believe some things before they see them (we used to call that faith).

220
Interesting Times  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:08:15am

re: #219 Belafon

Plus, it really would be nice if some people could believe some things before they see them (we used to call that faith).

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Ace-o-aces  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:08:52am
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Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:11:51am

re: #213 Old Liberal

If my grandchildren were of African American background, would your post be different? And if so, why should I not be upset that someone else is being persecuted? No, because I have just a smidge of their pain, I would understand and support my people who were born with a darker hue of skin. I shun.

My friends would not say anything impolite — they would never insult a child or anyone due to their race or religion. You know, the country club racists whose behavior toward others is always unfailingly civilized and pleasant but they would never elect “those people” to office; they buy into the Dinesh D’Souza view of this country.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:12:03am
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Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:13:08am

re: #220 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

Does this guy still hate blacks and Hispanics? Or is he able to say, “gee, if I was wrong about them refugees, maybe I should take a hard look in the mirror of my other beliefs?”

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Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:13:24am

re: #223 Backwoods_Sleuth

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And then he’ll overload it with debt on it and dump it after automating all of the jobs.

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Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:13:50am

re: #222 Hecuba’s daughter

My friends would not say anything impolite — they would never insult a child or anyone due to their race or religion. You know, the country club racists whose behavior toward others is always unfailingly civilized and pleasant but they would never elect “those people” to office; they buy into the Dinesh D’Souza view of this country.

I know people like that. I won’t socialize with them. Is that hate?

227
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:14:59am

re: #198 Old Liberal

Wendell, I share that viewpoint. With many of these peoples, they don’t get their ideas FROM fox news, they watch fox news because it REINFORCES their views. This is baked in. Nothing short of an economic depression will shake them, and then they are more likely to support the Nazi over the Socialist. We saw this movie before. FDR (and the people who supported him) saved this nation from fascism.

(Sorry for late reply, Outlook update borked my email. Now fixed, I hope.)

Trump support among Faux viewers has dropped from the 90s to 58 percent. How do you account for this?

228
FormerDirtDart  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:15:19am

8:27 p.m. for all us right coasters
Folks in the middle, do your own math. I’m feeling lazy

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ObserverArt  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:16:42am

re: #215 Hecuba’s daughter

This country was messed up before the 2016 election. The McConnell treatment of Garland; the GOP treatment of Obama during his entire stay in office; the million efforts to repeal Obamacare. Reagan did a lot of damage as did W. It is the GOP who created this monster of a tax bill, not Trump. It is the GOP that wants to destroy all benefit programs that help the poor, not Trump.

Let’s see what happens with Mueller and the 2018/2020 elections before we write this country off.

I’m sure you can see the changes I am talking about since Trump entered the picture. His election made those changes more glaring. There has been a coarsening of the citizens, racism is easily displayed, political discussion more toxic than ever and more outright lying than ever.

We’ve always had splits. Now we have deep divides.

When is the last time you have heard so much talk about secession, civil warring , leaving the country and the like?

Just an opinion that certain things have changed.

230
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:17:03am
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Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:17:38am

re: #224 Old Liberal

Does this guy still hate blacks and Hispanics? Or is he able to say, “gee, if I was wrong about them refugees, maybe I should take a hard look in the mirror of my other beliefs?”

That is one defining characteristic of conservatives: they will hold to a prejudice or false belief unless it happens to them personally or to someone they love. Liberals can put themselves into other people’s shoes; conservatives, not so much

232
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:18:13am

re: #227 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

(Sorry for late reply, Outlook update borked my email. Now fixed, I hope.)

Trump support among Faux viewers has dropped from the 90s to 58 percent. How do you account for this?

I can’t quantify it, but we know this to be true. A huge percentage of people don’t support Drumpf because he hasn’t built the wall and thrown out all the Muslims. Hasn’t ended abortion. Always, when we look at disapproval, we need to consider that some of those are unhappy because the person wasn’t extreme enough. I would be willing to wager that about 2/3rd of that decline are disaffected Nazi sympathizers and Breitbart followers.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:19:45am

re: #230 Backwoods_Sleuth

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MsJ  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:20:19am

re: #227 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

(Sorry for late reply, Outlook update borked my email. Now fixed, I hope.)

Trump support among Faux viewers has dropped from the 90s to 58 percent. How do you account for this?

FOX IS TOO LIBERAL! FAKE NEWS!!

235
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:20:52am

re: #229 ObserverArt

I’m sure you can see the changes I am talking about since Trump entered the picture. His election made those changes more glaring. There has been a coarsening of the citizens, racism is easily displayed, political discussion more toxic than ever and more outright lying than ever.

We’ve always had splits. Now we have deep divides.

When is the last time you have heard so much talk about secession, civil warring , leaving the country and the like?

Just an opinion that certain things have changed.

You are right; this hatred is more open now, instead of being concealed. But it’s FB and twitter — and the Russians promoting this dissension.

236
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:21:20am

re: #229 ObserverArt

When is the last time you have heard so much talk about secession, civil warring , leaving the country and the like?

Late 1960’s.

237
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:21:41am

re: #232 Old Liberal

I can’t quantify it, but we know this to be true. A huge percentage of people don’t support Drumpf because he hasn’t built the wall and thrown out all the Muslims. Hasn’t ended abortion. Always, when we look at disapproval, we need to consider that some of those are unhappy because the person wasn’t extreme enough. I would be willing to wager that about 2/3rd of that decline are disaffected Nazi sympathizers and Breitbart followers.

Numbers matter. If your data is off, then your assessment of the human condition is wrong. In the end the Left—Right divide is little more than that.

238
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:22:44am

re: #233 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m a fan anyway — it’s adorable!

239
FormerDirtDart  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:23:57am

Cryptocurrency futures trading…
What could go wrong?

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A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:24:16am

re: #232 Old Liberal

I can’t quantify it, but we know this to be true. A huge percentage of people don’t support Drumpf because he hasn’t built the wall and thrown out all the Muslims. Hasn’t ended abortion. Always, when we look at disapproval, we need to consider that some of those are unhappy because the person wasn’t extreme enough. I would be willing to wager that about 2/3rd of that decline are disaffected Nazi sympathizers and Breitbart followers.

I don’t have that information either, but whichever the direction, they are not swallowing the propaganda. Which was my point.

241
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:25:45am

re: #232 Old Liberal

I can’t quantify it, but we know this to be true. A huge percentage of people don’t support Drumpf because he hasn’t built the wall and thrown out all the Muslims. Hasn’t ended abortion. Always, when we look at disapproval, we need to consider that some of those are unhappy because the person wasn’t extreme enough. I would be willing to wager that about 2/3rd of that decline are disaffected Nazi sympathizers and Breitbart followers.

Many hate the tweeting too. They don’t see him as serious about his role. Some may be in the Jeff Flake mold — it’s not the policies they dislike, but the style.

242
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:25:53am

re: #237 Decatur Deb

Numbers matter. If your data is off, then your assessment of the human condition is wrong. In the end the Left—Right divide is little more than that.

Like I said, I do not have the data. As I said, I am willing to wager. Further, I am aware that polling data is not failsafe. I did not cite numbers, I was responding to someone who asked me personally to explain a decline in Fox viewer approval.

243
ObserverArt  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:26:19am

re: #236 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

Late 1960’s.

I was in my teens in the late 60s. I don’t remember that kind of talk being as open as it is now. And of course, the ‘net feeds it, so it makes it more predominant. That is a change that I am talking about. And of course Fox News and wingnut radio all makes the problems more glaring.

Plus, I am not trying to be definitive, just talking about how it all feels. It feels different to me.

244
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:27:05am

re: #240 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

I don’t have that information either, but whichever the direction, they are not swallowing the propaganda. Which was my point.

I didn’t say conservative swallow Fox propaganda. If you look upthread, you will see that I specifically said the opposite.

245
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:27:42am

re: #239 FormerDirtDart

Cryptocurrency futures trading…
What could go wrong?

[Embedded content]

?? Why is a 3% decline considered a price rout?

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Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:29:19am

re: #245 Hecuba’s daughter

?? Why is a 3% decline considered a price rout?

for a normal currency, that would be a major drop. but bitcoin is just a means of speculation

247
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:31:28am

re: #240 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

I don’t have that information either, but whichever the direction, they are not swallowing the propaganda. Which was my point.

Are you asserting that Fox has told them that a) the wall was built b)the Muslims are gone c)the gays are banned d)blacks are cut off from welfare e)all trade agreements are ended
because IF Fox has been telling them that and they didn’t believe it, then I would accept your premise. Otherwise, there has been nothing to “not swallow”.

248
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:32:01am

re: #243 ObserverArt

I was in my teens in the late 60s. I don’t remember that kind of talk being as open as it is now. And of course, the ‘net feeds it, so it makes it more predominant. That is a change that I am talking about. And of course Fox News and wingnut radio all makes the problems more glaring.

Plus, I am not trying to be definitive, just talking about how it all feels. It feels different to me.

There were riots in the streets; the National Guard patrolling a block from my family. The 60’s saw assassinations of major political figures — John Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy. There was a huge upheaval in the established order — women and minorities were finally getting some access, and many in the establishment did not take kindly to this.

249
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:33:07am

re: #247 Old Liberal

Are you asserting that Fox has told them that a) the wall was built b)the Muslims are gone c)the gays are banned d)blacks are cut off from welfare e)all trade agreements are ended
because IF Fox has been telling them that and they didn’t believe it, then I would accept your premise. Otherwise, there has been nothing to “not swallow”.

They are saying to support DT, support DT, support DT.

250
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:34:15am

re: #243 ObserverArt

I was in my teens in the late 60s. I don’t remember that kind of talk being as open as it is now. And of course, the ‘net feeds it, so it makes it more predominant. That is a change that I am talking about. And of course Fox News and wingnut radio all makes the problems more glaring.

Plus, I am not trying to be definitive, just talking about how it all feels. It feels different to me.

There’s a bit of that expat talk from the losing side after every contentious election. Few actually punch their ticket. If we fall, there is no place to go.

251
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:34:41am

re: #246 Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))

for a normal currency, that would be a major drop. but bitcoin is just a means of speculation

But a significant rise in value is also a disruptive force for currencies. Of course, as you said, bitcoin is just a means of speculation plus a way for people to trade in illegal goods and services.

252
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:34:49am

re: #248 Hecuba’s daughter

There were riots in the streets; the National Guard patrolling a block from my family. The 60’s saw assassinations of major political figures — John Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy. There was a huge upheaval in the established order — women and minorities were finally getting some access, and many in the establishment did not take kindly to this.

Yes, the good old days. Government lying about Vietnam. Police riots. Nixon committing treason by interfering the Paris peace talk. Love Canal birth defects, burning rivers. When America was great.

253
A Mom Anon  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:35:16am

I wish all of you a good and safe holiday weekend. We’re saving for a vacation, so no gifts this year, just food. I’m going all out with turkey and ham and all the good stuff that goes with it. Gifts to family have been minimal. No decorations, nada.

I feel oddly light and less stressed. I told The Kid if he had a friend who was alone to invite them over, no takers so far. We’ll see.

254
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:35:31am

re: #252 Old Liberal

Yes, the good old days. Government lying about Vietnam. Police riots. Nixon committing treason by interfering the Paris peace talk. Love Canal birth defects, burning rivers. When America was great.

Don’t forget bell-bottoms.

255
FormerDirtDart  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:35:48am

re: #245 Hecuba’s daughter

?? Why is a 3% decline considered a price rout?

Not 3%. it’s down like 30% since it’s high on Monday. It’s down 14% today.

256
William Lewis  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:36:07am

re: #197 Belafon

Hey, did you see my comment last night?

258
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:39:32am

Cabbage isn’t going to plant itself. BBL

259
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:39:42am

re: #249 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

They are saying to support DT, support DT, support DT.

What is Breitbart saying? Free Republic? Red State? Support DT? Of course. Also, mad because no wall. Still have Muslims. Hispanics not deported.

I personally said I disapproved of Obama’s job in the first term. Because he let all the Wall Street crooks go (maybe there was little he could do) and was doing another “lets just move on” about Iraq lies. Did it mean I wanted him out? Not in favor of Mitt Romney. But I didn’t approve.

260
Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:40:08am

re: #256 William Lewis

Hey, did you see my comment last night?

No I did not. Was it in yesterday’s thread or this one?

Edit: Never mind. Just read it on Amazon.

Edit 2: Is there any way he can contact you? He’d like to hear more of your critique.

261
DodgerFan1988  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:40:28am

But Antifa and Black Lives Matter are the real terrorists.

ReplyReply w/ QuoteImages
262
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:41:23am

some people have the BEST grandparents…

ReplyReply w/ QuoteImage
263
Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:41:30am

re: #261 DodgerFan1988

But Antifa and Black Lives Matter are the real terrorists.

[Embedded content]

Alex Jones will cower in fear. Roger Stone will come out dressed like the Monopoly money guy.

264
allegro  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:42:03am

re: #216 Old Liberal

I do not hate them. I simply will not ignore their racism and white supremacy. If I were a baker, I would even make their cake for them. I simply will not socialize with people who are not nice people, who are racist and support traitors. If that is hate, well, call me a hater. I shun.

We all have, or had, racist thoughts and attitudes if we were raised in this country (or probably any country, but I can’t speak to that). It’s an ugly and very real part of our heritage. None us us are so pure. The difference between us is that the more liberal among us recognize that and our privilege. When those ingrained racist thoughts emerge, we are able to see them for what they are or when they are pointed out to us, we can change them.

I’ll go back to this conservative friend. She is a woman of some wealth that she has earned from hard work throughout her life and she has overcome many tremendous obstacles. She honestly can’t see that everyone else can’t do the same thing if they would just apply themselves. She does not recognize the privilege of white skin and Mensa-level IQ that made much of her success possible, though I think our talks are making some headway there. I would call her an economic GOPer who unfortunately continues to blind herself to the racism in the party. The dogwhistles, even sirens, just zoom right past her.

I have never heard a racist word from her or seen her treat any others with anything but respect. She is a lovely, generous woman. Does her refusal or perhaps inability at this point to acknowledge what her GOP has become make her evil?

265
wrenchwench  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:42:47am

re: #258 Decatur Deb

Cabbage isn’t going to plant itself. BBL

It would if you would stop removing their parents and eating them in their infancy.

Gardeners are so cruel.

Beyond Vegan: Minerals for all!

266
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:43:20am

re: #250 Decatur Deb

There’s a bit of that expat talk from the losing side after every contentious election. Few actually punch their ticket. If we fall, there is no place to go.

I have completed my scouting trip. I might be one of the few that do. I need to have a place for my kids and grandkids to land in case this all goes to hell. I will be marching in Washington DC and hope we literally shut it down and have a nationwide general strike if Mueller is fired. I am not giving up. But I will not live in a Nazi state. Which is why I am, first, leaving Wisconsin.

267
wrenchwench  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:43:53am

re: #262 Backwoods_Sleuth

some people have the BEST grandparents…

[Embedded content]

They pulled Santa over?!?

268
William Lewis  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:45:36am

re: #260 Belafon

No I did not. Was it in yesterday’s thread or this one?

Edit: Never mind. Just read it on Amazon.

Ah, good. Let me know what he thinks of it?

269
Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:45:51am

re: #183 Decatur Deb

This tax cut isn’t made to enrich the rich, or even to buy GOP votes for 2018. At some level it is designed to destroy the Federal budget, permitting a return to the pre-FDR social order. It’s purpose is to punish Them, drive Them back into servitude, and keep a legal boot on Their necks.

“Them” are not all Black and Latino.

This is exactly right, I think. The whole point is to push us back to Coolidge and Hoover, or better yet, pre-Wilson days.

270
Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:49:40am

re: #264 allegro

We all have, or had, racist thoughts and attitudes if we were raised in this country (or probably any country, but I can’t speak to that). It’s an ugly and very real part of our heritage. None us us are so pure. The difference between us is that the more liberal among us recognize that and our privilege. When those ingrained racist thoughts emerge, we are able to see them for what they are or when they are pointed out to us, we can change them.

I’ll go back to this conservative friend. She is a woman of some wealth that she has earned from hard work throughout her life and she has overcome many tremendous obstacles. She honestly can’t see that everyone else can’t do the same thing if they would just apply themselves. She does not recognize the privilege of white skin and Mensa-level IQ that made much of her success possible, though I think our talks are making some headway there. I would call her an economic GOPer who unfortunately continues to blind herself to the racism in the party. The dogwhistles, even sirens, just zoom right past her.

I have never heard a racist word from her or seen her treat any others with anything but respect. She is a lovely, generous woman. Does her refusal or perhaps inability at this point to acknowledge what her GOP has become make her evil?

If she is mentally disabled and so if unable to understand what racism is and what treason is, perhaps she is not evil. Let’s see, Mensa IQ, very successful, can’t see what is going on? Look, I have a former friend, Bob, who is now Rachael. Yes, sex change. Votes Republican because money money money. ByeRachael. I shun.

271
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:50:30am

re: #269 Barefoot Grin

This is exactly right, I think. The whole point is to push us back to Coolidge and Hoover, or better yet, pre-Wilson days.

pre-Wilson? Teddy Roosevelt is far too liberal for the current GOP. He even wanted national health insurance.

272
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:51:37am

Question:

After being here for seven years, I’m about to post my first LGF page. I added the text, and then uploaded an image to go with it - but the image code appears at the bottom of the post.

Is this normal? Will the image show up where it’s supposed to when I publish? HALP!

273
William Lewis  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:51:40am

re: #268 William Lewis

Ah, good. Let me know what he thinks of it?

Oh, and if he’s interested, I have a small manuscript he might enjoy seeing. It’s a long series of linked tanka (a japanese style related to the haiku but with two more lines per poem) about the Chanllenger loss. Let me know an email and I can send a pdf.

274
sagehen  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:51:55am

re: #269 Barefoot Grin

This is exactly right, I think. The whole point is to push us back to Coolidge and Hoover, or better yet, pre-Wilson days.

When they say they want pre-Roosevelt policies… they’re talking about Teddy.

National Parks, FDA, trust-busting, expansion of voting rights…

275
Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:52:10am

re: #268 William Lewis

Ah, good. Let me know what he thinks of it?

You’re his first critique. He’d like to hear a more detailed one if you have time. You’re also his first critique in that he’s like “Well, then.” :) And he means that in a joking way as well. He was curious about your punk rock lyric statement.

276
William Lewis  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:52:23am

re: #269 Barefoot Grin

This is exactly right, I think. The whole point is to push us back to Coolidge and Hoover, or better yet, pre-Wilson days.

But Wilson’s racial policies probably suit them just fine…

277
calochortus  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:54:40am

re: #253 A Mom Anon

I wish all of you a good and safe holiday weekend. We’re saving for a vacation, so no gifts this year, just food. I’m going all out with turkey and ham and all the good stuff that goes with it. Gifts to family have been minimal. No decorations, nada.

I feel oddly light and less stressed. I told The Kid if he had a friend who was alone to invite them over, no takers so far. We’ll see.

The very merriest holiday to you-and all of us here.
We too have lightened up on the gifts the last couple years and it’s a wonderful thing. Donations to worthy causes, gifts of “experiences,” and a couple little material gifts (for some reason it’s not Christmas for my daughter if she doesn’t get socks… I created a monster) We have a dinner for friends and family, a smallish tree, some decorations on the mantle and we’re done.
It would be different if there were grandchildren, but for adults, this is good.

278
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:55:35am

re: #272 makeitstop

Question:

After being here for seven years, I’m about to post my first LGF page. I added the text, and then uploaded an image to go with it - but the image code appears at the bottom of the post.

Is this normal? Will the image show up where it’s supposed to when I publish? HALP!

did you preview the page?

279
Joe Bacon 🌹  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:55:55am

re: #261 DodgerFan1988

But Antifa and Black Lives Matter are the real terrorists.

[Embedded content]

Both of those chickens will cut and run when the National Guard goes after them! They’ll be doing the Benny Hill Marathon thing!

280
Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:56:01am

re: #273 William Lewis

Oh, and if he’s interested, I have a small manuscript he might enjoy seeing. It’s a long series of linked tanka (a japanese style related to the haiku but with two more lines per poem) about the Chanllenger loss. Let me know an email and I can send a pdf.

He wouldn’t mind. austincmask at gmail. And, like I said, he would like a more detailed critique of his poems.

281
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:56:46am

re: #278 Backwoods_Sleuth

did you preview the page?

Yes. The image shows at the bottom. That’s not right, is it?

282
wrenchwench  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:58:02am

re: #272 makeitstop

Question:

After being here for seven years, I’m about to post my first LGF page. I added the text, and then uploaded an image to go with it - but the image code appears at the bottom of the post.

Is this normal? Will the image show up where it’s supposed to when I publish? HALP!

Just post it. Let us all see your mistakes, if any. Let the community know that they need not be a professional in order to post a Page.

You can keep messing with it after you post it. More fun for us!

283
A hollow voice says, Covfefe.  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:58:21am

re: #259 Old Liberal

What is Breitbart saying? Free Republic? Red State? Support DT? Of course. Also, mad because no wall. Still have Muslims. Hispanics not deported.

I personally said I disapproved of Obama’s job in the first term. Because he let all the Wall Street crooks go (maybe there was little he could do) and was doing another “lets just move on” about Iraq lies. Did it mean I wanted him out? Not in favor of Mitt Romney. But I didn’t approve.

All right, I give up. This year, we have seen Democrats come near winning seats in places they would never have remotely had a chance before. Some of them have even won, e.g. Doug Jones (“As long as the candidate is against abortion, RWNJs will vote for him.”) Confederate monuments and names are being removed all over the country, and Nazis can’t congregate anywhere without being vastly outnumbered by their opponents, however they flourish on Twitter.

But you and a fair number of others here seem to cling to despair as the RWNJs do to anger (and to repost the exact same arguments and quotes over and over again — do you have them on macros?). I won’t deny myself the occasional snipe at this attitude, but I’m not going to bother to point to signs of hope again. You love your despair — wallow in it.

284
William Lewis  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:58:23am

re: #275 Belafon

You’re his first critique. He’d like to hear a more detailed one if you have time. You’re also his first critique in that he’s like “Well, then.” :) And he means that in a joking way as well. He was curious about your punk rock lyric statement.

Ah. There is a streak of anti for the sake of anti hiding in some of the imagery. I wonder if he’s recently read “Les Fleurs du mal” as well? Punk rock lyrics was a short hand for staying away from stuff that sounds a bit like the last few Green Day LP’s (good as they are) out of a desire to see what his own voice sounds like.

Seriously in-depth thoughts will have to wait till next week at best. But the advice to explore classical forms, for the discipline if nothing else, is important. I’d never show anyone my sonnets (shudder) but forcing myself to write them was still very useful for helping me create what I would be willing to share.

285
Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:58:28am

re: #266 Old Liberal

I have completed my scouting trip. I might be one of the few that do. I need to have a place for my kids and grandkids to land in case this all goes to hell. I will be marching in Washington DC and hope we literally shut it down and have a nationwide general strike if Mueller is fired. I am not giving up. But I will not live in a Nazi state. Which is why I am, first, leaving Wisconsin.

MoveOn says we would best deploy South to the demo at Tallahassee’s Old Capital Bldg. We have a campsite picked out at St. Mark’s.

trumpisnotabovethelaw.org

Now I must plant the veggies I didn’t plant last month.

286
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:58:56am

re: #282 wrenchwench

Just post it. Let us all see your mistakes, if any. Let the community know that they need not be a professional in order to post a Page.

You can keep messing with it after you post it. More fun for us!

You’re mean. :)

287
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:59:02am

re: #281 makeitstop

Yes. The image shows at the bottom. That’s not right, is it?

hmmm….did you use insert image within the text or did you use the meta image button at the bottom of the composing page?

288
ObserverArt  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:59:16am

re: #272 makeitstop

Question:

After being here for seven years, I’m about to post my first LGF page. I added the text, and then uploaded an image to go with it - but the image code appears at the bottom of the post.

Is this normal? Will the image show up where it’s supposed to when I publish? HALP!

Make sure the meta tag for the image in the image library is turned on. If not, the image won’t link to the page. (It’s been awhile since i used it, but that is always the problem…so look for any check boxes with “meta” next to it)

289
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:59:35am

re: #282 wrenchwench

Just post it. Let us all see your mistakes, if any. Let the community know that they need not be a professional in order to post a Page.

You can keep messing with it after you post it. More fun for us!

Okay, you win. Posting now…

290
darthstar  Dec 22, 2017 • 9:59:56am
ReplyReply w/ Quote
291
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:00:42am

And here it is. Be kind, plz. :)

292
darthstar  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:00:44am

If I don’t get a thousand RTs for that then Twitter is a place to avoid.

293
Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:00:52am

re: #276 William Lewis

But Wilson’s racial policies probably suit them just fine…

Oh yeah, that’s the place where they go, “Wilson wasn’t all bad….”

294
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:01:24am

re: #291 makeitstop

And here it is. Be kind, plz. :)

reading it now

295
wrenchwench  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:01:42am

re: #286 makeitstop

You’re mean. :)

Life has been mean to me. I’m just sharing. Sharing is good, right?

296
allegro  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:01:48am

re: #270 Old Liberal

If she is mentally disabled and so if unable to understand what racism is and what treason is, perhaps she is not evil. Let’s see, Mensa IQ, very successful, can’t see what is going on? Look, I have a former friend, Bob, who is now Rachael. Yes, sex change. Votes Republican because money money money. ByeRachael. I shun.

Some us prefer to hang in and fight to help leave behind something better. Some shun and run. May your purity keep you good company.

297
Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:02:30am

re: #290 darthstar

How about Twitter realize that it’s more than just a messaging service. It’s an opinion shaper, and that allowing Nazis, radicals, Russian bots, and violent people use the service validates them.

298
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:03:20am

re: #287 Backwoods_Sleuth

hmmm….did you use insert image within the text or did you use the meta image button at the bottom of the composing page?

Meta image, I think. It showed up in the right place on Pages, so I think I did it right…

(And big thanks to Lawhawk for pointing a lot of the post in the right direction.)

299
darthstar  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:05:31am

re: #291 makeitstop

And here it is. Be kind, plz. :)

Well written. I’m actually glad he signed it because it means the GOP can’t hide from their actions through election day. Yes, they’ll have to pass emergency fixes to prevent Sequestration, but just the fact that they did that to themselves, and they have to deal with the Teabag caucus to fix it, or reach out to Pelosi for rescue, will cost them a few points in the polls. (I know, points don’t mean shit, and it’d be better if the Democrats had managed to stop them, but we’re in it now so it’s on us to make it hurt them as much as they’re trying to hurt us.)

300
darthstar  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:06:27am

re: #297 Belafon

How about Twitter realize that it’s more than just a messaging service. It’s an opinion shaper, and that allowing Nazis, radicals, Russian bots, and violent people use the service validates them.

Don’t tell me, tell Jack.

301
calochortus  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:07:21am

re: #299 darthstar

Well written. I’m actually glad he signed it because it means the GOP can’t hide from their actions through election day. Yes, they’ll have to pass emergency fixes to prevent Sequestration, but just the fact that they did that to themselves, and they have to deal with the Teabag caucus to fix it, or reach out to Pelosi for rescue, will cost them a few points in the polls. (I know, points don’t mean shit, and it’d be better if the Democrats had managed to stop them, but we’re in it now so it’s on us to make it hurt them as much as they’re trying to hurt us.)

Didn’t the continuing resolution (or whatever it is) on the budget include a pay-go waiver?

302
wrenchwench  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:07:24am

re: #298 makeitstop

Meta image, I think. It showed up in the right place on Pages, so I think I did it right…

(And big thanks to Lawhawk for pointing a lot of the post in the right direction.)

From your Page:

Cross-posted to my blog,

So you are a professional!

303
Citizen K  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:09:28am

I will say one thing, regarding the earlier conversation regarding Trump Supporters vs. GOP supporters.

My personal stance: they can claim to not support Trump all they want, but if they remain bull-headed in their GOP support where it’s clear there’s precious little daylight between Trump and the actual GOP leaders aside from perhaps specific competency, then it comes off as a distinction without a difference to me. The same way that those who claim they aren’t personally racist/sexist/etc. but then turn around and vote for a blatant racist/sexist/etc. precisely because it simply wasn’t a dealbreaker for them.

At some point, we can’t let these folks off the hook precisely because even if they’re a softer kind of ‘wrong, they precisely enable the worst of the conservatives because they look past the coarsening of the discourse and shredding of norms because they can get their way, much the same way #204 Hecuba’s daughter noted about their single-issue voter friend.

I can respect folks like Navarro, McMullin, and Rubin because, while I won’t agree with them most of the time regarding in-the-weeds political views, they recognize and are willing to admit that Trump and the GOPs slash-and-burn is dangerous, even in the process of codifying something they might agree with otherwise. And they precisely call out the GOP for enabling it, rather than trying to assume daylight between the GOP and Trump where there is none to be seen.

I’ve seen too much hard work on logic and emotional appeals done to conservatives and fence sitters go to waste because all it takes is one sound-bite from the right to send them screaming back right-ward and cursing the name of all liberalism, logic and reason be damned.

304
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:12:20am

re: #301 calochortus

Didn’t the continuing resolution (or whatever it is) on the budget include a pay-go waiver?

yes, it did.
washington.edu

305
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:12:47am

re: #302 wrenchwench

From your Page:

So you are a professional!

A professional amateur, I guess. :)

I’ve had that site since 1997. In the beginning, I’d actually go in and code my posts in HTML.

And I’ve kind of disappeared off and on over the years, depending upon what was happening at the time - life events, other work, depression for a while.

I’m hoping this post will get me back in the habit. I miss blogging.

306
Citizen K  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:14:11am

On to other things:

ReplyReply w/ Quote
ReplyReply w/ Quote
ReplyReply w/ Quote
ReplyReply w/ QuoteVideo
307
Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:16:41am

re: #303 Citizen K

I can respect folks like Navarro, McMullin, and Rubin because, while I won’t agree with them most of the time regarding in-the-weeds political views, they recognize and are willing to admit that Trump and the GOPs slash-and-burn is dangerous, even in the process of codifying something they might agree with otherwise. And they precisely call out the GOP for enabling it, rather than trying to assume daylight between the GOP and Trump where there is none to be seen.

I’ve seen too much hard work on logic and emotional appeals done to conservatives and fence sitters go to waste because all it takes is one sound-bite from the right to send them screaming back right-ward and cursing the name of all liberalism, logic and reason be damned.

Just remember before Trump, Navarro, McMullin, and Rubin were all ardent GOPers. It was Trump that led them to the truth on many issues — and let’s not forget our “friend” Bill Kristol, who sees Trump for what he is. These four have not reverted right-ward. Many others can also come to the light.

308
Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:16:57am
ReplyReply w/ Quote
309
makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:18:01am

Okay, I’m not usually that big on Christmas tunes, but this is pretty spectacular.

for KING & COUNTRY - Little Drummer Boy | LIVE from Phoenix

310
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:19:35am

re: #81 Anymouse 🌹

Well, Cliven Bundy and his merry band of Sovereign Citizens just had a mistrial declared in their case about the Bunkerville standoff against the Bureau of Land Management.

motherjones.com

Turns out the prosecution withheld a whole bunch of exculpatory evidence from the defence, and lied about other evidence.

It’s almost as if the DOJ is trying to screw up all these SovCit cases.

Prosecutors who pull shit like this ought to be disbarred, not to mention prosecuted and jailed.

311
Citizen K  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:21:40am

re: #307 Hecuba’s daughter

Just remember before Trump, Navarro, McMullin, and Rubin were all ardent GOPers. It was Trump that led them to the truth on many issues — and let’s not forget our “friend” Bill Kristol, who sees Trump for what he is. These four have not reverted right-ward. Many others can also come to the light.

I mean…that’s part of the problem. Many others can. They haven’t. Because they’re getting their way and are willing to overlook the rank shit precisely because they’re getting their way. And for those three, they proved that they were sincere about their attitude rather than other #NeverTrump-types who reverted to mean almost immediately after the inauguration.

I’m done reaching out to those who haven’t shown even the most minor bit of repentance, because it’s so often wasted and responded to with bad faith that taints the entire endeavor. I’d rather focus myself on convincing those on our side who have turned off and dropped out, or those like Navarro who have actually shown conciliation and use that as a jumping-off point for actual dialogue.

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allegro  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:23:02am

re: #308 Backwoods_Sleuth

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One of my darling feline children gave me a Christmas present last night. At my expense, of course. During a manic cat rumble, he took out my bedroom TV. New one, along with a ceiling mount, arrive next Wednesday.

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electrotek  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:23:06am

Trump’s America

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Big Beautiful Door  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:25:01am

re: #108 Anymouse 🌹

Christians authors calling for a “National Day of Repentance” from Donald Trump.

They are trying to conflate it with a different proclamation that Abraham Lincoln made (that wasn’t the same thing).

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Trump has a lot to repent for.

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Skip Intro  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:26:42am

re: #104 MsJ

Isn’t the Papa John guy the same one who was whining on national TV (during a football game, IIRC) about having to raise the price of his shitty pizza by a dime to give his workers healthcare some years ago?

Papa John “resigned” back in 2005 too. He does that when his company is doing shitty and he doesn’t want the blame to fall on him.

He’ll be back.

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Kragar  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:28:29am
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Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:29:08am

re: #313 electrotek

Trump’s America

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Those fucking kids filming it and not doing shit to stop it…..

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:29:11am
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Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:30:26am

So I’m about the farthest thing from a law-talkin’ guy, but this EO on Human Rights and Corruption released yesterday seems a bit weird.

whitehouse.gov

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:30:46am
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calochortus  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:31:34am

re: #320 Backwoods_Sleuth

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Well, there’s no emergency for McConnell…

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wrenchwench  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:31:42am

I don’t know why, and they most certainly don’t, but the city had a ‘water main to nowhere’ under the street on the other side of the block from where I live. It was the water main to nowhere until somebody turned it on yesterday. Then it had to go somewhere. It went into the basement of the house I used to live in, two doors down the hill from where I live now. Then it went down the driveway, into the street, across the next street, and halfway down the block, where it disappeared down the big storm drain. It continued to come up in the basement, geysering from a pipe which may or may not be connected to anything, then the phone calls started. I was still at work at the beginning, mostly being warned of possible ice on my way home, the phone calls continued after I got (safely) home.

The water got turned off. Today that water main is to be capped. It’s still wet out there. My neighbor, who lives in the house I used to live in, said there will be ice skating in her basement today. I only remembered this morning that she’s a Katrina refugee, and might be suffering flashbacks.

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Citizen K  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:31:59am

re: #313 electrotek

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:33:17am
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:34:37am
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Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:34:42am

re: #324 Backwoods_Sleuth

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Roger Stone claims responsibility for getting John Anderson to run in 1979. Wouldn’t surprise me if he were behind Stein’s run here.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:36:16am
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Citizen K  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:37:32am

re: #323 Citizen K

To add on, this is what scares me particularly about my generation and the younger ones too: they see precisely what those we elect are doing, they see the patterns, and they take it as justification for behavior as well as see them as role models. They see their parents spout this rhetoric and use it as free reign to get their hate on. This is what gets enabled when one entire political party gets almost all power behind the juggernaut of xenophobia, bigotry, racism, and hate.

And I have no doubt that the school probably punished the girl getting assault for somehow starting it, because she’s low-hanging fruit, and the other girls probably know how to ingratiate themselves to the faculty.

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Kragar  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:38:28am
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:39:39am
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:40:56am
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The Vicious Babushka  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:41:01am

re: #219 Belafon

Plus, it really would be nice if some people could believe some things before they see them (we used to call that faith).

Well, they do. They believe the bullshit that Trump tells them.

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:42:05am

re: #251 Hecuba’s daughter

But a significant rise in value is also a disruptive force for currencies. Of course, as you said, bitcoin is just a means of speculation plus a way for people to trade in illegal goods and services.

Also some legal ones. I was paid in Bitcoin for sharing my GPUs via NiceHash until they got hacked (or exit scammed). Fortunately I converted it to dollars before the crash.

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makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:44:52am

I missed this last night…

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:49:21am

re: #323 Citizen K

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Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:54:56am

re: #283 A hollow voice says, Covfefe.

All right, I give up. This year, we have seen Democrats come near winning seats in places they would never have remotely had a chance before. Some of them have even won, e.g. Doug Jones (“As long as the candidate is against abortion, RWNJs will vote for him.”) Confederate monuments and names are being removed all over the country, and Nazis can’t congregate anywhere without being vastly outnumbered by their opponents, however they flourish on Twitter.

But you and a fair number of others here seem to cling to despair as the RWNJs do to anger (and to repost the exact same arguments and quotes over and over again — do you have them on macros?). I won’t deny myself the occasional snipe at this attitude, but I’m not going to bother to point to signs of hope again. You love your despair — wallow in it.

I have never felt better. I am doing what I can. I call my conservative Senator’s two offices every day to voice my opinion. Every day. I support local people who are in the resistance personally and monetarily. Recognizing the enormity of a threat does not equal despair. Refusing to be polite does not equal despair. Making plans and provisions does not equal despair. Give me hard-edged realism over thoughts and prayers any day. I am in a war, and I will not be complicit. Whatever ethos others may have, so be it.

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Kragar  Dec 22, 2017 • 10:57:45am
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Old Liberal  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:00:16am

re: #303 Citizen K

I will say one thing, regarding the earlier conversation regarding Trump Supporters vs. GOP supporters.

My personal stance: they can claim to not support Trump all they want, but if they remain bull-headed in their GOP support where it’s clear there’s precious little daylight between Trump and the actual GOP leaders aside from perhaps specific competency, then it comes off as a distinction without a difference to me. The same way that those who claim they aren’t personally racist/sexist/etc. but then turn around and vote for a blatant racist/sexist/etc. precisely because it simply wasn’t a dealbreaker for them.

At some point, we can’t let these folks off the hook precisely because even if they’re a softer kind of ‘wrong, they precisely enable the worst of the conservatives because they look past the coarsening of the discourse and shredding of norms because they can get their way, much the same way #204 Hecuba’s daughter noted about their single-issue voter friend.

I can respect folks like Navarro, McMullin, and Rubin because, while I won’t agree with them most of the time regarding in-the-weeds political views, they recognize and are willing to admit that Trump and the GOPs slash-and-burn is dangerous, even in the process of codifying something they might agree with otherwise. And they precisely call out the GOP for enabling it, rather than trying to assume daylight between the GOP and Trump where there is none to be seen.

I’ve seen too much hard work on logic and emotional appeals done to conservatives and fence sitters go to waste because all it takes is one sound-bite from the right to send them screaming back right-ward and cursing the name of all liberalism, logic and reason be damned.

Amen, Citizen K.

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Kragar  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:00:56am
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:01:40am
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:03:00am

re: #340 Backwoods_Sleuth

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another kiss of death endorsement…

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:04:29am
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MsJ  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:04:37am

re: #339 Kragar

The Washington Times?

Maybe I *have* been raptured already.

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Barefoot Grin  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:06:32am

re: #331 Backwoods_Sleuth

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At the request of Republicans who are trying to trash the entire investigation—I think they’re looking to frame the narrative with Bannon and Lewandowski. I’d be very surprised if much came of it.

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Kragar  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:07:13am
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darthstar  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:07:33am

re: #301 calochortus

Didn’t the continuing resolution (or whatever it is) on the budget include a pay-go waiver?

The CR is only for a month or so, right? They can’t CR their way around sequestration.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:08:11am
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calochortus  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:10:15am

re: #346 darthstar

The CR is only for a month or so, right? They can’t CR their way around sequestration.

I don’t know why not. They’ve passed a “revenue neutral” tax bill that will add a trillion dollars or so to the debt.

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makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:10:41am

re: #337 Kragar

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Thernovich now regreth doing thith.

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Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:10:57am

re: #334 makeitstop

I missed this last night…

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If the guy witnessed it, and Mueller knows about it, Trump could reassign him to Siberia and it won’t do him any good.

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nowherenorth2  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:11:39am

That ama Reddit with the lispy mcsteroid is a god send for the holdiays

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Eventual Carrion  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:11:55am

re: #340 Backwoods_Sleuth

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Compared to tRump an armadillo is brilliant.

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makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:13:42am

re: #351 nowherenorth2

That ama Reddit with the lispy mcsteroid is a god send for the holdiays

I wish it could go on for days.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:13:48am
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This thread illuminates what’s wrong with Conservative Intellectuals. They want to pretend to knowledge and expertise, until actual knowledge indicates the need for policy proposals they don’t like. Biggest example is Climate Change, but other areas like gender equality, economics, race relations, etc. - empirical observation and reason tell them things they don’t want to believe, so they dismiss them without rationally critiquing the data and methods.

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ObserverArt  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:15:38am

re: #324 Backwoods_Sleuth

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Well…how convenient an excuse is that? Clinton Democrats dragged me into the investigation because…well, they are Clintons. Clinton’s do bad stuff so I can use that as an excuse.

I hope Jill Stein is burned in this whole thing. She did a lot to help bring about Trump.

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nowherenorth2  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:16:39am

re: #353 makeitstop

Yes. I do too it is the gift that keeps on giving.

357
Big Beautiful Door  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:17:31am

re: #265 wrenchwench

It would if you would stop removing their parents and eating them in their infancy.

Gardeners are so cruel.

Beyond Vegan: Minerals for all!

When you stab the earth with a pick-axe, it makes Gaea cry. Become a Breatharian!

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makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:18:04am

re: #353 makeitstop

I wish it could go on for days.

Fuck, I can’t stop laughing.

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Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:19:58am

re: #357 Big Beautiful Door

When you stab the earth with a pick-axe, it makes Gaea cry. Become a Breatharian!

Do you have a moment to talk with me about our Lord and Saviour, Vacuum?

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ObserverArt  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:21:13am

re: #334 makeitstop

I missed this last night…

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Big Don is too stupid to understand that anything he does is going to be far from quiet. Every move he and his staff make is under the microscope looking for obstruction and collusion. But that’s okay…it’s their ignorant arrogance that is going to bring them down.

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wrenchwench  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:26:22am

re: #359 Decatur Deb

Do you have a moment to talk with me about our Lord and Saviour, Vacuum?

I just helped my buddy who used to trade burritos for bike parts to fix a flat. When we were done, I asked him if he had someplace to go for Christmas. He said, ‘I’m hoping to stay on planet Earth.’ I said, ‘I hope you do, too!’ and he rode off.

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goddamnedfrank  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:26:54am

By signing the GOP tax bill before January 1st Trump just triggered automatic cuts to Medicare and other mandatory spending programs in 2018. Now Congress will have to come back and pass a specific waiver.

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Kragar  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:28:03am
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Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:28:45am

re: #355 ObserverArt

Well…how convenient an excuse is that? Clinton Democrats dragged me into the investigation because…well, they are Clintons. Clinton’s do bad stuff so I can use that as an excuse.

I hope Jill Stein is burned in this whole thing. She did a lot to help bring about Trump.

Because she is a Putin bot. So no different from the trolls you see on FB promoting any kind of lie.

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Kragar  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:30:11am
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Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:31:22am

re: #364 Hecuba’s daughter

Because she is a Putin bot. So no different from the trolls you see on FB promoting any kind of lie.

Yep. I think Sanders is just an old white guy who thinks we have to appeal to old white guys at the expense of others to win (I could be proven wrong about his working for Russia). Stein is straight up working for Russia.

Edited

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Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:33:09am

re: #362 goddamnedfrank

By signing the GOP tax bill before January 1st Trump just triggered automatic cuts to Medicare and other mandatory spending programs in 2018. Now Congress will have to come back and pass a specific waiver.

Apparently they passed a PAYGO waiver as part of the CR, so they don’t have to.

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calochortus  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:33:35am

Time to go pretend to do something constructive.
BBL

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Skip Intro  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:33:50am

re: #351 nowherenorth2

That ama Reddit with the lispy mcsteroid is a god send for the holdiays

It appears that his wife/girlfriend/sister is even dumber than he is.

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Big Beautiful Door  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:34:35am

re: #339 Kragar

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Even the Washington Times is slamming the tax bill? Damn!

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Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:34:40am

re: #365 Kragar

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Where are all those people who said Bitcoin was like a real currency? I wonder if they’d like these two tulip bulbs for the price of a mansion on Amsterdam’s ritziest street?

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:36:36am

re: #371 Blind Frog Belly White

Where are all those people who said Bitcoin was like a real currency? I wonder if they’d like these two tulip bulbs for the price of a mansion on Amsterdam’s ritziest street?

I don’t think this chart is quite current, but it looks like people who bought or mined even earlier this year are still way up.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:37:40am

re: #365 Kragar

was reading Reddit forums last night with people describing how they took out $10,000 loans at 20% APR to buy and they bought at the peak

Nick and Vinnie will come by next week with a baseball bat.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:38:56am

re: #372 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

I don’t think this chart is quite current, but it looks like people who bought or mined even earlier this year are still way up.

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If they were smart, they’re the ones who SOLD at the peak.

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:39:54am

re: #374 Blind Frog Belly White

If they were smart, they’re the ones who SOLD at the peak.

I did, but I held so little that it was only $250. It was $140 when I earned it.
There was a lot of money to be made in this bubble.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:42:45am
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Kragar  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:43:14am
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Big Beautiful Door  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:43:26am

re: #365 Kragar

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I guess I won’t be pulling all the money out of my 401(k) to invest in Bitcoins after all.

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Blind Frog Belly White  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:43:38am

re: #375 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

I did, but I held so little that it was only $250. It was $140 when I earned it.
There was a lot of money to be made in this bubble.

Always money to be made in bubbles. Also money to be lost in bubbles.

And with the rich paying even less than they had been, we should expect lots more bubbles as all that money goes looking for ‘safe, high yield investments’.

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gocart mozart  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:43:46am
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Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:44:05am

re: #366 Belafon

Yep. I think Sanders is just an old white guy who thinks we have to appeal to old white guys to win (I could be proven wrong about his working for Russia). Stein is straight up working for Russia.

We have to appeal to old white guys to win. We have to appeal to left-handed teppanyaki chefs to win.

80,000 votes.

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makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:44:45am

This is the best.

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:45:59am

re: #377 Kragar

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Belafon  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:46:36am

re: #381 Decatur Deb

We have to appeal to old white guys to win. We have to appeal to left-handed teppanyaki chefs to win.

80,000 votes.

Because someone missed the implied meaning, I edited it to:

re: #366 Belafon

Yep. I think Sanders is just an old white guy who thinks we have to appeal to old white guys at the expense of others to win (I could be proven wrong about his working for Russia). Stein is straight up working for Russia.

Edited

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Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:47:49am

re: #366 Belafon

Yep. I think Sanders is just an old white guy who thinks we have to appeal to old white guys to win (I could be proven wrong about his working for Russia). Stein is straight up working for Russia.

I have long believed Mr. “Honeymoon in Russia” Sanders is affiliated with Russia. Mueller may reveal all.

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Interesting Times  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:47:49am

re: #381 Decatur Deb

We have to appeal to old white guys to win. We have to appeal to left-handed teppanyaki chefs to win.

What do you think of this?

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Citizen K  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:49:02am

re: #377 Kragar

So they’re marketing something that they’ve already passed, without a corroborating program that would require signup that might justify marketing.

Not weird at all.

388
Kragar  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:50:22am
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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:51:05am

so, I got a notice from Social Security in today’s mail.
Starting in 2018, the earnings limit for full retirement age (66 or older) is no longer in effect. Keep all of the benefit no matter how much you earn. This will not impact me until 2019, but I don’t make more than $17,040 (for 2017) or more than $45,360 (for 2018)
Also getting a 2% COL raise starting in January.

390
Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:53:17am

re: #388 Kragar

My chart is very not current then, but it’s still up from earlier this year. That may not be the case by this time next week.

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Interesting Times  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:53:26am

re: #383 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

Another factor to consider is the advice oft given to hapless political campaigns - “you have to define yourself before your opponent does it for you.”

In this case, thankfully, the proverbial shoe’s on the other foot - the resistance has pretty much succeeded in defining this steaming pile already, so instead of starting with a clean slate, GOPers have to play defense and attempt to dislodge the existing perceptions.

#GOPTaxScam was a brilliant hashtag in this respect.

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Kragar  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:54:37am

re: #390 Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis

“Bitcoin, the dominate cyber currency, hit an all-time peak, slightly above $20,000 last Sunday morning before beginning a moderate price slide that accelerated in the early hours of Friday morning Eastern time.

By late Friday morning, Bitcoin’s price had dropped to $11,833, a 41-percent decline from Sunday’s peak.”

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Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:55:02am

re: #386 Interesting Times

What do you think of this?

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Think I’d pound on doors for him if I lived in West Virginia.

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:55:32am

re: #388 Kragar

It’s worse than a Ponzi scheme. So much electricity was used to mine those coins.
I expect it’l stabilize at some point. People still need cryptocurrencies to buy on black markets, and to move money across borders.

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Hecuba's daughter  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:55:49am

re: #391 Interesting Times

Another factor to consider is the advice oft given to hapless political campaigns - “you have to define yourself before your opponent does it for you.”

In this case, thankfully, the proverbial shoe’s on the other foot - the resistance has pretty much succeeded in defining this steaming pile already, so instead of starting with a clean slate, GOPers have to play defense and attempt to dislodge the existing perceptions.

#GOPTaxScam was a brilliant hashtag in this respect.

We defined TaxScam to start but we now have to continue to lambaste it so they cannot weasel word their way out of this. Tom Steyer — why don’t you spend your money on attacking this law?

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Aucun pays pour les vieux ennemis  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:57:11am

re: #392 Kragar

It was at about $2K last summer before the obvious bubble. I expect it to drop to around that level.

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wrenchwench  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:57:40am

I’ve been to this city.

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My cats may not let me return, unless I bring them, too.

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makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 11:57:47am

Jared’s having a bad day.

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Decatur Deb  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:00:45pm

re: #384 Belafon

Because someone missed the implied meaning, I edited it to:

Until this nightmare is sent away in 2020, the only cause of importance is unity, solidarity. Then we can go back to bitching at each other.

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wrenchwench  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:02:37pm

re: #398 makeitstop

Jared’s having a bad day.

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Look at you. Pages hatchling gets ‘Featured’!

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makeitstop  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:03:24pm

re: #400 wrenchwench

Look at you. Pages hatchling gets ‘Featured’!

Seriously? No way.

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darthstar  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:05:07pm

I’m waiting for Bitcoin to go back to being worth less than a dollar. Then I’ll buy a couple hundred bucks’ worth and forget about it. Talked about doing that back in 2010 as a joke…be selling it all today if I had done that. $100 in bitcoin bought in 2010 was something like $28 million the other day.

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Sir John Barron  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:14:11pm

re: #389 Backwoods_Sleuth

so, I got a notice from Social Security in today’s mail.
Starting in 2018, the earnings limit for full retirement age (66 or older) is no longer in effect. Keep all of the benefit no matter how much you earn. This will not impact me until 2019, but I don’t make more than $17,040 (for 2017) or more than $45,360 (for 2018)
Also getting a 2% COL raise starting in January.

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Backwoods_Sleuth  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:23:01pm

re: #403 Sir John Barron

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re: #403 Sir John Barron

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ObserverArt  Dec 22, 2017 • 12:52:35pm

re: #393 Decatur Deb

Think I’d pound on doors for him if I lived in West Virginia.

He seems to be the kind of person the Democrats need to take the south states. Genuine, known in the community, aware of the people’s issues and a good firm speaker, not a carpet bagging glad-hander.


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