MIT’s New Imaging System Takes Movies at the Speed of Light

A trillion frames per second
Science • Views: 25,427

This is the age of miracles and wonders. Tonight’s case in point: the MIT Media Lab’s new imaging system that takes exposures at a trillion frames per second, allowing researchers to actually visualize light traveling through space.

Human beings are now looking at photons in motion. Unbelievable. This video shows a nanosecond pulse of laser light traveling through a plastic Coca-Cola bottle:

Youtube Video

Jump to bottom

451 comments
1 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:06:27pm

Wow.

Also, I really hope that Coke paid for the product placement. Why should their bottle star in this for free?

2 albusteve  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:07:38pm

now...how can we kill people with it?

3 jaunte  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:08:53pm

re: #1 SanFranciscoZionist

Coke's ad agency is probably going to want to rent that lighting equipment.

4 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:09:33pm
MIT’s New Imaging System Takes Movies at the Speed of Light

Romney rules!

5 Kragar  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:10:58pm

re: #2 albusteve

now...how can we kill people with it?

We use it to broadcast the GOP debates.

6 jaunte  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:13:25pm
Volumetric Propagation: The pulse of light is less than a millimeter long. Between each frame, the pulse travels less than half a millimeter. Light travels a foot in a nanosecond and the duration of travel through a one foot long bottle is barely one nanosecond (one billionth of a second).

Incredible.

7 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:18:33pm

I love it. The wave nature of light can be clearly seen in these videos. As the waves propagate and encounter objects some of the photons are scattered, sometimes several times, toward the camera and hence we can see them. Cool stuff.

8 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:18:50pm

Wrenchwench is posting really great stuff tonight. Don't miss her featured Pages.

9 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:21:13pm
This is the age of miracle and wonder.
This is the long distance call,
the way the camera follows us in slow-mo
The way we look to us all

The Boy in the Bubble, recorded nearly 25 years ago:

Youtube Video
10 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:23:48pm

Flash Mob Attacks Mumbai Rail Station

Flash mob in the Mumbai railway station on the rememberence of Nov 26, 2010 victims killed there by Pakistani terrorist attack on India. Hooray for the human spirit!!

Youtube Video
11 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:34:48pm

Wow! a trillion frames per second.. What an advancement for science..
And just in time for the NFL playoffs...Puts new meaning to super slow motion to review contested calls...
/

12 lawhawk  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:35:53pm

The camera that took those photos is considered the slowest fastest camera in the world in the way that it takes photos and assembles them. They figured how to do this in a most clever fashion.

Dr. Raskar enlisted colleagues from the chemistry department to modify a “streak tube,” a supersensitive piece of laboratory equipment that scans and captures light. Streak tubes are generally used to intensify streams of photons into streams of electrons. They are fast enough to record the progress of packets of laser light fired repeatedly into a bottle filled with a cloudy fluid.

The instrument is normally used to measure laboratory phenomena that take place in an ultra-short timeframe. Typically, it offers researchers information on intensity, position and wavelength in the form of data, not an image.

By modifying the equipment, the researchers were able to create slow-motion movies, showing what appears to be a bullet of light that moves from one end of the bottle to the other. The pulses of laser light enter through the bottom and travel to the cap, generating a conical shock wave that bounces off the sides of the bottle as the bullet passes.

The streak tube scans and captures light in much the same way a cathode ray tube emits and paints an image on the inside of a computer monitor. Each horizontal line is exposed for just 1.71 picoseconds, or trillionths of a second, Dr. Raskar said — enough time for the laser beam to travel less than half a millimeter through the fluid inside the bottle.

To create a movie of the event, the researchers record about 500 frames in just under a nanosecond, or a billionth of a second. Because each individual movie has a very narrow field of view, they repeat the process a number of times, scanning it vertically to build a complete scene that shows the beam moving from one end of the bottle, bouncing off the cap and then scattering back through the fluid. If a bullet were tracked in the same fashion moving through the same fluid, the resulting movie would last three years.

13 darthstar  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:41:51pm

Okay...that was fuckin' cool.

14 albusteve  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:56:42pm

American Idol on tv?

15 Inconsequential Consequence  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 6:58:02pm

re: #13 darthstar

Okay...that was fuckin' cool.

You took the awesome words right out of my mouth.

16 Lidane  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:00:43pm

Wow. That video is amazing. Very, very cool.

Also -- Exams? DONE. Semester? OVER. Now maybe I'll be able to relax. Lucky for me, I've got a glass of wine, early access to Star Wars: The Old Republic, and no plans to do anything for the rest of the week.

I've also got my holiday reading. Amazon delivered it today. :)

17 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:04:25pm

re: #16 Lidane

Huge congrats!

18 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:08:24pm

re: #16 Lidane

Wow. That video is amazing. Very, very cool.

Also -- Exams? DONE. Semester? OVER. Now maybe I'll be able to relax. Lucky for me, I've got a glass of wine, early access to Star Wars: The Old Republic, and no plans to do anything for the rest of the week.

I've also got my holiday reading. Amazon delivered it today. :)

You're lucky. I can't even do most of my Christmas shopping till Christmas Eve, due to money supply reasons.

19 jaunte  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:14:15pm

Anthony Terrell @AnthonyNBCNews:

Christine O'Donnell endorses Mitt Romney

20 jaunte  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:17:01pm

Billionaire plans world's biggest plane for orbital launches

Seven years after winning the $10 million Ansari X Prize, software billionaire Paul Allen and aerospace guru Burt Rutan are teaming up with SpaceX and other top-flight rocketeers to create an air-launched orbital delivery system. They say the venture will require the construction of the largest aircraft ever flown.
...
Scaled Composites has been tapped to build a carrier airplane that weighs more than 1.2 million pounds, with a wingspan of more than 380 feet. That tonnage rivals the weight of the Antonov An-225, which is recognized as the world's heaviest aircraft. Stratolaunch's dual-fuselage plane would be powered by six 747 engines, and would require a 12,000-foot runway for landing.

21 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:18:42pm

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

You're lucky. I can't even do most of my Christmas shopping till Christmas Eve, due to money supply reasons.

Dude, if anyway possible, shop after. You'll save so much.

22 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:20:00pm

re: #14 albusteve

American Idol on tv?

How would I know. Don't have one.

I am currently watching U2 from the 80's on youtube, though.

23 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:20:36pm

re: #19 jaunte

Anthony Terrell @AnthonyNBCNews:

Christine O'Donnell endorses Mitt Romney

Someone check his body for The Mark.

24 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:21:08pm

re: #21 Stanley Sea

Dude, if anyway possible, shop after. You'll save so much.

Gift certificates might be the best of both worlds, provided they're for a place at which the gift-receiver likes to shop :) You get to give them something in time for the holidays, they get to take advantage of post-Xmas sales.

25 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:22:13pm

re: #19 jaunte

Anthony Terrell @AnthonyNBCNews:

Christine O'Donnell endorses Mitt Romney

They care about her endorsement, but not about the money in her gritted/campaign fund? Priorities.

26 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:22:44pm

re: #23 JasonA

Someone check his body for The Mark.

No, Mormons have horns, not The Mark.

27 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:23:07pm

re: #24 publicityStunted

OK, former retailer, here...
SCREAMS
MARKDOWNS!
Thank you for listening.

28 Kragar  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:26:34pm

re: #19 jaunte

Anthony Terrell @AnthonyNBCNews:

Christine O'Donnell endorses Mitt Romney

Proving Mitt is not a witch, and she isn't into Newts.

29 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:26:35pm

re: #23 JasonA

Someone check his body for The Mark.

She's just foolish. She's not actually a bad person, and having the support of a Tea Party favorite will likely help Mitt win the nomination.

30 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:26:46pm

Omg I'm watching local news - fucking kill me - they just aired their er, "segment" where they debunked President Obama removing the American flag from air force 1, replacing it w/his campaign logo.

America, the stupid, gullible. I'm so including our local media.

31 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:28:02pm

re: #10 Killgore Trout

Flash Mob Attacks Mumbai Rail Station

[Video]

re: #18 Dark_Falcon

You're lucky. I can't even do most of my Christmas shopping till Christmas Eve, due to money supply reasons.

I feel for you, sorry to hear that. It's been a long and sometimes painful process but the few people close to me have learned to expect little from me for the holidays. My x-mas will mostly involve cats, a fireplace and a book.

32 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:28:15pm

re: #30 Stanley Sea

Whaaaa

33 jaunte  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:29:00pm

Do GOP Voters Care About Electability?

In a YouGov survey from last week, we included an experiment. After GOP voters had been asked which candidate they supported in the primary, we randomly assigned them to see Intrade probabilities for the GOP nomination, for the general election, or both. Then we asked them a second time which candidate they supported.

-About 25% of Gingrich supporters defect to Romney after they’ve seen the general election numbers from Intrade.

-Paul and Johnson voters tend to move to Romney. Bachmann, Perry, and Santorum voters tend to move to Gingrich.

34 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:33:03pm

re: #33 jaunte

I still think I'm living in a dream world to see Gingrich as high in the polls as he is.

35 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:34:01pm

re: #34 JasonA

I still think I'm living in a dream world dystopian nightmare to see Gingrich as high in the polls as he is.

Fixed.

36 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:35:39pm

re: #35 publicityStunted

No no, that's if he wins.

37 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:37:18pm

re: #29 Dark_Falcon

She's just foolish. She's not actually a bad person, and having the support of a Tea Party favorite will likely help Mitt win the nomination.

Dipping into campaign contributions for living expenses while not a candidate, jumping on the "start a PAC that does nothing" grift, lying about attending Princeton...holding a wide number of policy positions that demonize and denigrate fellow citizens for disagreeing with her.

She's a bad person.

38 SpaceJesus  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:42:53pm

casual reminder that we are all fucked

[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]

39 Four More Tears  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:43:48pm

re: #38 SpaceJesus

casual reminder that we are all fucked

[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]

I'll take lube, please.

40 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:45:33pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

The kitties presents will be half price on 12/26.
You can thank me then!

41 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:48:20pm

re: #38 SpaceJesus

casual reminder that we are all fucked

[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]

That is really not good, if the clathrate gun hypothesis is at all valid. To the point that some sort of direct action--burning off those methane fountains?--might be a good idea.

42 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:48:20pm

re: #27 Floral Giraffe

OK, former retailer, here...
SCREAMS
MARKDOWNS!
Thank you for listening.

There's your busted myth right there folks: Giraffes are only quiet because they want to be:

Youtube Video
43 Inconsequential Consequence  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:52:07pm

re: #38 SpaceJesus

casual reminder that we are all fucked

[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]

Great.

And the Koch/Exxon funded liars for cash will continue to convince the thick skulled it's all a scam.

44 SpaceJesus  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 7:59:14pm

re: #43 b_sharp

conservatives present the greatest threat to mankind in all of history

45 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:00:43pm

re: #40 Floral Giraffe

The kitties presents will be half price on 12/26.
You can thank me then!

Hi you! I got sick of the news shows, Sportscenter and everything else tonight.. I'm watching Planet Earth on HD.. It is so cool..Nice break.
I hired a new Housekeeper today..She seems really nice and came highly recommended..

46 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:03:07pm

re: #43 b_sharp

Great.

And the Koch/Exxon funded liars for cash will continue to convince the thick skulled it's all a scam.

Which will be interesting, since within the last year the same anti-AGW people were using the deflection of "why aren't people more worried about methane rather than whining about caps on C02?"

47 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:06:33pm

re: #44 SpaceJesus

Go Fuck Yourself.

48 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:10:38pm

re: #45 HoosierHoops

What happened to the original one? Did she quit you? Or too much competition w/ Winston?

If too many questions I understand.

49 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:11:54pm

re: #38 SpaceJesus

casual reminder that we are all fucked

[Link: www.independent.co.uk...]

The Cephalopods will thank us later.

50 SpaceJesus  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:11:59pm

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

too late, we already are all fucked.

51 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:12:46pm

My towels are in the dryer, prep for my shower. Ah, the excess. We have it sooo good.

52 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:13:59pm

History will not be kind to the GOP's complete denial of AGW.

53 Firstinla  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:15:40pm

re: #52 Varek Raith

History will not be kind to the GOP's complete denial of AGW.

I suspect history will not be kind to any of us or our immediate forbears for our handling of AGW.

54 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:15:41pm

re: #48 Stanley Sea

What happened to the original one? Did she quit you? Or too much competition w/ Winston?

If too many questions I understand.

Hi You! I fired her..She stole money from me..Really pissed me off...
I posted about it last weekend...

55 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:15:45pm

re: #45 HoosierHoops

As long as Winston likes her...

56 The Questionable Timing of a Flea  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:17:31pm

re: #49 prononymous

The Cephalopods will thank us later.

The Humboldt squids should not be encouraged.

57 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:18:06pm

re: #54 HoosierHoops

Hi You! I fired her..She stole money from me..Really pissed me off...
I posted about it last weekend...

Aw shit I missed that trauma. Geeze, what a hassle.

58 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:18:07pm

re: #54 HoosierHoops

Hi You! I fired her..She stole money from me..Really pissed me off...
I posted about it last weekend...

That sucks.

59 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:19:42pm

Ok, my towels are hot. Shower time.

Heh

60 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:20:08pm

re: #59 Stanley Sea

WOOOT.
I'm just sayin...

61 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:20:36pm

re: #60 Floral Giraffe

WOOOT.
I'm just sayin...

No.

GIGGITY!

62 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:23:01pm

re: #55 Floral Giraffe

As long as Winston likes her...

You know what is cool? She is a member of the Moose and is completely trusted by everybody there. I hired her on the spot and I feel so good I could just give her a key and never have to worry about anything..
Winston and I are in the middle of effen Oklahoma alone.. Peace of mind rocks..

63 Prononymous, rogue demon hunter  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:23:15pm

re: #56 The Ghost of a Flea

The Humboldt squids should not be encouraged.

No, but maybe this guy could use a little encouragement:

Youtube Video
64 aagcobb  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:25:45pm

re: #43 b_sharp

Great.

And the Koch/Exxon funded liars for cash will continue to convince the thick skulled it's all a scam.

Read the story, the "data" was reported by a Russian. He's a commie participating in the plot to impose the one world marxist caliphate under sharia law on us all.

65 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:34:04pm

re: #19 jaunte

Anthony Terrell @AnthonyNBCNews:

Christine O'Donnell endorses Mitt Romney

He's officially cursed!

66 Stanghazi  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:34:20pm

Aaahhh

67 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:35:02pm

re: #65 austin_blue

He's officially cursed!

I put a spell on you...

68 Political Atheist  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:36:49pm

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

Easy. You know how SJ likes to push buttons. For the lulz.

69 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:38:37pm

re: #67 HoosierHoops

I put a spell on you...

Heh, you do know they just backfire, right?

70 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:41:06pm

re: #69 Floral Giraffe

Heh, you do know they just backfire, right?

No they don't.
My spells just have the unintentional side effect of blowing up random places.
It's a feature, not a bug.
:P

71 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:41:47pm

re: #67 HoosierHoops

I put a spell on you...

Youtube Video
72 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:42:52pm

re: #68 Rightwingconspirator

Easy. You know how SJ likes to push buttons. For the lulz.

Yeah, I know. That's why I just cursed him out and left it at that.

73 jaunte  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:43:30pm

Mark Steel: Hands off our greedy bankers
It's the right of every Englishman to have his country robbed blind by the banks

You can see why, after 50 years of putting up with Europe, this was finally the issue where we couldn't take any more. Because the bastards were insisting we impose a vague regulation or two on our bankers and speculators, those brave and tireless souls who invest round the clock to keep us safe with not a thought for themselves. Well, the French had the audacity to suggest someone kept an eye on them from time to time. Haven't bankers suffered enough?

So, just like in 1940, we stand alone, and hopefully at every bus stop, you'll hear the plucky British saying: "Blooming Krauts, who do they think they are telling us our bankers aren't allowed to rob us blind? That's the right of every Englishman, to have his country robbed blind by bankers. Now Frau Merkel wants to make them only rob me nine-tenths blind until they get themselves straight. Well, we fought off the Luftwaffe, so we'll see off this lot an' all."

Soon we'll hear heartwarming stories of national pride, with old-age pensioners on the regional news saying: "I had £20 put by for a new hearing aid, but instead I've sent it off to Goldman Sachs to let them know I, for one, am willing to carry on getting fleeced by them, whether the Frogs say I can or not." And charming letters from children will be published, saying: "I wanted to stop those Europeans make nasty rules for our banks, so I sold my rabbit to the butcher and gave the money to Fred Goodwin. It might not be much, but it's all I've got".

There are many reasons to be suspicious of the European Union, but it seems the ones we're supposed to be annoyed about are when they pass rules stopping employers from making people work longer hours than anywhere else, or insisting on extra holidays.

74 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:44:04pm

In a perfect world, every dog would have a kid.

75 Usually refered to as anyways  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:45:54pm

re: #72 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, I know. That's why I just cursed him out and left it at that.

If he is who he says he is, you could be in big trouble.

76 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:48:15pm

That recording is Killer Bee, but these old bullet films have something they don't have- mass and shock. They are still oddly beautiful.

Youtube Video
77 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:48:33pm

re: #75 ozbloke

Yes, but he's OUR Space Jesus!

78 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:49:56pm

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

There's your busted myth right there folks: Giraffes are only quiet because they want to be:

[Video]

MMOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!

79 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:51:50pm

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

There's your busted myth right there folks: Giraffes are only quiet because they want to be:

[Video]

25lbs!

Well, I always knew Floral had a big heart . . . .

80 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:53:39pm

re: #79 ggt

Heh. Thank you!

81 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:54:55pm

re: #41 The Ghost of a Flea

That is really not good, if the clathrate gun hypothesis is at all valid. To the point that some sort of direct action--burning off those methane fountains?--might be a good idea.

These are all subsurface seeps. The chance that you could get to the LEL of methane at the surface or keep it lit in sea movement and wind is highly unlikely. Nice idea, though.

82 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 8:57:45pm

re: #81 austin_blue

These are all subsurface seeps. The chance that you could get to the LEL of methane at the surface or keep it lit in sea movement and wind is highly unlikely. Nice idea, though.

Nuke it.

83 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:00:25pm

re: #73 jaunte

I disagree with Mr Steele, heavily. Why should extra holidays be mandated at all? And why, after a 35 hour workweek flopped in France, should the UK listen at all to what the continent has to say about work hours.

And I'll take that up a level: With the Euro in chaos and the economies of Eurozone countries hanging by a thread, why should the UK seek to integrate further into such a basket case? The logical move is to distance oneself from the trainwreck.

84 Interesting Times  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:01:50pm

re: #81 austin_blue

These are all subsurface seeps. The chance that you could get to the LEL of methane at the surface or keep it lit in sea movement and wind is highly unlikely. Nice idea, though.

Massive masses of methane-munching microbes, then?

85 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:01:52pm

re: #82 Varek Raith

Nuke it.

Hells yes! It's Rooshan!

86 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:02:16pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

The Eurozone crisis has also shown us that austerity measures do not work.

87 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:03:10pm

re: #85 austin_blue

Hells yes! It's Rooshan!

Big kabooms solve all problems.

88 jaunte  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:04:08pm

Europe pushes ahead with fiscal union, UK isolated

Under the new treaty plan, the leaders agreed to pursue a tougher budget discipline regime with automatic sanctions for deficit sinners in the single currency area, but Britain said it could not accept the proposed treaty amendments after failing to secure concessions for itself on financial regulation.
...
One senior EU diplomat called Cameron's negotiating tactics "clumsy." Among other things, he had sought a veto on a proposed financial transaction tax, which may now be voted through by a majority over the objections of London's financial centre.

89 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:04:48pm

re: #84 publicityStunted

Massive masses of methane-munching microbes, then?

Meh, works for dissolved phase in the water, but once you reach the methane/water partition percentage (which is in the parts per million) the only time the bacteria will have to chomp is from seep to surface. Not long.

90 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:08:53pm

re: #89 austin_blue

Meh, works for dissolved phase in the water, but once you reach the methane/water partition percentage (which is in the parts per million) the only time the bacteria will have to chomp is from seep to surface. Not long.

Napalm it.

*See a pattern emerging???*
/

91 Shizaru  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:13:56pm

In the interest of scientific accuracy, it's actually a 1-2 picosecond laser pulse. A 1 nanosecond pulse would be longer than the whole bottle. In any case, WOW.

And today, 2 teams of LHC physicists announced they may be close to detecting the Higgs boson, the last unobserved elementary particle predicted by the Standard Model.

Miracles and wonders indeed.

92 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:16:08pm

re: #88 jaunte

Europe pushes ahead with fiscal union, UK isolated

The UK still has us, they still have Canada. Better that Britain retain her ability to chart her own course. No reason to subsidize the Eurozone trainwreck any further. If they try to tax the UK without the UK's consent, then the proper reply is to simply leave the EU.

93 jaunte  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:18:09pm

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

That's half their trade that will take a hit; I don't think they'll do it.

94 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:20:06pm

Meh, I tired of politics and economics.

How are all of you?

95 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:24:18pm

re: #90 Varek Raith

Napalm it.

*See a pattern emerging???*
/

Well sure, but napalm is really inefficient, and would release scads of C=O=C into the air. The problem is the tundra, because it has so much frozen biomass. Forget the offshore contribution, which is pffft by comparison. So for eastern Siberia, I would respectfully suggest placing 1 megaton nukes on one mile centers. Given that the tundra in that area is around 2,000 miles wide by 800 miles deep, around 1.6 million bombs would be necessary. If you planned it right, you could detonate to control the fallout so that it drifted south toward Mongolia and China, which could solve a lot of C=O=C issues right there and get rid of a huge clathrate issue. Bonus!

96 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:25:13pm

re: #95 austin_blue

Well sure, but napalm is really inefficient, and would release scads of C=O=C into the air. The problem is the tundra, because it has so much frozen biomass. Forget the offshore contribution, which is pffft by comparison. So for eastern Siberia, I would respectfully suggest placing 1 megaton nukes on one mile centers. Given that the tundra in that area is around 2,000 miles wide by 800 miles deep, around 1.6 million bombs would be necessary. If you planned it right, you could detonate to control the fallout so that it drifted south toward Mongolia and China, which could solve a lot of C=O=C issues right there and get rid of a huge clathrate issue. Bonus!

Ok.
How about redirecting an asteroid???
;)

97 freetoken  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:26:03pm

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

The UK still has us, they still have Canada.

I don't know what you mean by that, but as for me - I'm not here to bail out the UK. They're in as bad (or worse) financial state than the US, fundamentally, and the "City" financial empires are as much to blame for it as their national spending/taxing policies.

Frankly the UK needs Europe more than they need us. From depending upon fossil fuel imports (the North Sea is past its peak production) to depending upon other European nations' business needing the financial/commercial services of UK banks and companies, it is in Europe that the UK will find it's future. Yes, they can still rely a bit on the Commonwealth (of which gladly we are not a part) for favoritism, but the residents of the UK have to solve their problems themselves.

98 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:27:34pm

re: #93 jaunte

That's half their trade that will take a hit; I don't think they'll do it.

They will. The UK is seriously pissed at the EU and there is no willingness on the part of a British public facing service cuts to send even more money to bail other countries for their refusal to balance their books. If Europe doesn't try to grab more, the UK should help via trade and advice. But bailouts? No. The UK, like the US, needs to take care of its own self. The members of the Eurozone must solve their own problems.

99 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:28:06pm

re: #96 Varek Raith

Ok.
How about redirecting an asteroid???
;)

Geo-engineering at its finest!

Gotterdamerung.

100 freetoken  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:29:05pm

re: #95 austin_blue

Well sure, but napalm is really inefficient, and would release scads of C=O=C into the air.

Um, that is a molecule that would be hard to obtain.

I think you meant O=C=O ?

101 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:29:16pm

re: #94 Varek Raith

Meh, I tired of politics and economics.

How are all of you?

Spankingly fine.
Now, what would entertain you?

102 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:29:49pm

re: #97 freetoken

I don't know what you mean by that, but as for me - I'm not here to bail out the UK. They're in as bad (or worse) financial state than the US, fundamentally, and the "City" financial empires are as much to blame for it as their national spending/taxing policies.

Frankly the UK needs Europe more than they need us. From depending upon fossil fuel imports (the North Sea is past its peak production) to depending upon other European nations' business needing the financial/commercial services of UK banks and companies, it is in Europe that the UK will find it's future. Yes, they can still rely a bit on the Commonwealth (of which gladly we are not a part) for favoritism, but the residents of the UK have to solve their problems themselves.

Being locked into an unaccountable EU structure is No Future. The Eurozone can be engaged at existing levels, but the UK should not commit itself further, nor should we.

103 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:31:50pm

re: #97 freetoken

I don't know what you mean by that, but as for me - I'm not here to bail out the UK. They're in as bad (or worse) financial state than the US, fundamentally, and the "City" financial empires are as much to blame for it as their national spending/taxing policies.

Frankly the UK needs Europe more than they need us. From depending upon fossil fuel imports (the North Sea is past its peak production) to depending upon other European nations' business needing the financial/commercial services of UK banks and companies, it is in Europe that the UK will find it's future. Yes, they can still rely a bit on the Commonwealth (of which gladly we are not a part) for favoritism, but the residents of the UK have to solve their problems themselves.

Well said, but they *were* smart not to join the Euro. They still have a sovereign currency with which they can fiddle. Italy, Greece, Portugal, Spain, and Ireland? Fucked, right up the patooty.

104 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:32:29pm

re: #100 freetoken

Um, that is a molecule that would be hard to obtain.

I think you meant O=C=O ?

Doh!

(pulls forelock)

105 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:36:18pm

re: #100 freetoken

Um, that is a molecule that would be hard to obtain.

I think you meant O=C=O ?

What are you, some kind of learnéd elitist?!?!

106 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:40:18pm

11 day until Christmas.
Someone, who will remain unnamed (FREETOKEN), has been slacking.

107 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:41:47pm

I think my doh! moment scared everybody off. (sigh)

Hey! Craigie Ferg is on!

108 Kragar  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:50:08pm

So, Skyrim question.

Is Dual Wielding worth it for a thief type character or go sword and shield?

109 austin_blue  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:52:26pm

I thought Skycam was the organization that caused the computers to take over and make Terminators using as a template a former Governor of California? No?

I'm so old.

But it's sleepy time. I'll be back.

110 Kragar  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:53:32pm

re: #109 austin_blue

I thought Skycam was the organization that caused the computers to take over and make Terminators? No?

I'm so old...

Skynet.

111 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:53:44pm

re: #109 austin_blue

I thought Skycam was the organization that caused the computers to take over and make Terminators? No?

I'm so old...

Skynet.

re: #108 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So, Skyrim question.

Is Dual Wielding worth it for a thief type character or go sword and shield?

I find that the lack of blocking makes duel-wielding weak.

112 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:55:55pm

My thief relies on a bow for the main weapon and a sword for back up.
Daggers for assassinations (There's a perk in the sneak tree that allows a sneak attack with daggers at x30(!) damage).

113 Kragar  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 9:58:08pm

re: #112 Varek Raith

My thief relies on a bow for the main weapon and a sword for back up.
Daggers for assassinations (There's a perk in the sneak tree that allows a sneak attack with daggers at x30(!) damage).

Thats what I was looking at, looking like I'll use dagger and shield, with a bow.

A nice gentleman in the starting level was nice enough not to die as I repeatedly backstabbed him, so hey, free sneak and one hand weapon level ups.

114 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:00:24pm

Greetz, Lizards,

Haven't been around much in the past few days - I've been watching player movement in the NBA. It's going to be an interesting season, a dash to the Finals. Anything can happen. And the NBA's treatment of Chris Paul is nothing short of embarrassing. Not the best way to show the world you 'fixed' things with the new CBA.

On another front, I bought a Used Gretsch guitar last night, and one of those stories I've heard all my life about coming across a rare instrument by accident has finally happened to me. It turns out that I bought a pretty rare 'transitional' guitar, a model that was the direct forerunner of Gretsch's Chet Atkins Tennessean. I bought it literally in pieces, and I found out that even before doing any restoration work to it, it's worth nearly four times what I paid for it.

It's been a good week so far. How y'all doing?

115 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:01:14pm

eurozone

the way i look at it, even professional economists are unable to fix it, or predict what will happen there

so, so much the more so we munchkins should forebear thinking that we understand it and can predict its future and give advice

what the leaders are doing is sticking their fingers in the holes in the dike that they can find and desperately praying that they don't run out of fingers

116 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:09:52pm

The thread. I killed it.

117 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:13:27pm

re: #116 makeitstop

The thread. I killed it.

Yep, looks like you did a fine job!

118 Varek Raith  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:15:29pm

re: #117 Floral Giraffe

Yep, looks like you did a fine job!

ZOMBIE!!!!
RUN AWAY!

119 Kragar  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:15:35pm

re: #116 makeitstop

The thread. I killed it.

Every thread dies, not every thread truly lives...

120 Kragar  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:16:10pm

And you all just read that with a Mel Gibson fake Scottish accent.

121 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:16:55pm

re: #115 engineer dog

or, to put it another way, my belief is that all theories about economic actvity belong in the journal of irreproducible results

122 makeitstop  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:17:53pm

re: #117 Floral Giraffe

Yep, looks like you did a fine job!

It's a gift. You should see me at parties. :)

123 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:18:43pm

re: #120 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

And you all just read that with a Mel Gibson fake Scottish accent.

Well, it beats the Anti-Semetic insult spewing Mel Gibson...

124 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:19:18pm

re: #116 makeitstop

The thread. I killed it.

no, it was me that kilt the thread

125 Targetpractice  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:23:11pm

re: #118 Varek Raith

ZOMBIE!!!
RUN AWAY!

*Lurches in* Brainsss...

126 Kragar  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:25:28pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

Well, it beats the Anti-Semetic insult spewing Mel Gibson...

Youtube Video
127 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:29:10pm

re: #125 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

*Lurches in* Brainsss...

[DF fires 40mm buckshot round into TPWoBW's head, blasting it into tiny pieces and stopping the attack.]

Varek ain't the only one who can do overkill.

128 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:49:47pm

Goodnight, all.

129 Gus  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:56:05pm

Evening girls.

Frank Sinatra - Witchcraft

Youtube Video

Later.

130 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 10:57:49pm

anyone still here?

131 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 11:25:15pm

Alone Again

:(

132 JAFO  Tue, Dec 13, 2011 11:32:02pm

re: #131 ggt

Naturally.

I'm watching Deep Space 9 in another tab.

133 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:05:20am

re: #132 mracb

Naturally.

I'm watching Deep Space 9 in another tab.

Which season?

134 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:11:29am

re: #131 ggt

Youtube Video
135 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:20:17am

re: #132 mracb

Naturally.

I'm watching Deep Space 9 in another tab.

All is forgiven.

136 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:20:49am

re: #134 WindUpBird

[Video]

I tried the Ray Charles version from youtube, but the audio was terrible.

137 freetoken  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:22:23am
MP3 Audio
138 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:26:20am

re: #137 freetoken

[Video]

That is not Ray Charles :)

139 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:29:56am

I've been researching the utterly boring and depressing subject of the job markets. It is so horrible that I inflicted a Page on you-all.

Why was I doing this research? I seem to be infected with a need to know more.

As this is totally out of my realm and not my desired subject matter (how do you get DS9 in another tab???) I am exhausted from the effort.

Night all!

oops, today's quota of kitteh

140 JAFO  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:30:48am

re: #133 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Which season?

Season 7.

141 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:33:22am

re: #140 mracb

Season 7.

Cool.

I'm amusing myself with classic TV: MST3K.

142 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:38:11am

re: #141 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

Cool.

I'm amusing myself with classic TV: MST3K.

mitchell!

Torgo?

Swayze!


I'm huge!

if your hands were metal, that would mean something.

143 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:39:53am

Going to sleep at 6:30 was probably a mistake. Sigh, sup night owls?

144 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:40:03am

from twitter:


All those congress critters and senators who voted for the #NDAA have committed High Treason against the American People and Constitution.

yeah


America, being rotted to death from the inside fucking out :)

145 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:40:22am

re: #143 McSpiff

the shit they got me drawing, you wouldn't fucking believe

146 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:41:02am

re: #145 WindUpBird

the shit they got me drawing, you wouldn't fucking believe

What's all this?

147 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 12:41:43am

re: #143 McSpiff

Going to sleep at 6:30 was probably a mistake. Sigh, sup night owls?

Enjoying the wonders of the microscopic world, via sinus infection. Ugh.

148 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:00:58am
Popular right-wing talk-radio host Michael Savage has offered Newt Gingrich $1 million to drop out of the race for the GOP nomination because he doesn't believe the former Speaker of the House can beat President Barack Obama.

Hilarious but is this even legal? Newt may not be a public official so maybe it's not technically bribery but he is a registered presidential primary candidate.

149 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:02:55am

re: #148 goddamnedfrank

Hilarious but is this even legal? Newt may not be a public official so maybe it's not technically bribery but he is a registered presidential primary candidate.

Circular firing squad...ready...aim...FIRE!

150 Altermite  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:09:31am

re: #148 goddamnedfrank

No idea, but michael savage is likely right. Right now newt is curbstomped in polls matching him up against obama- he even loses some traditionally republican strongholds.

My guess is that this is because a large number of individuals who would support a 'generic republican' (older people, specifically) are also the sort of people who remember why he was booted from washington in the first place- and those are the guys who refused to jump ship from cain to gingrich, and returned to perry/bachmann/anyone except gingrich/romney instead.

I'm saying this because my grandmother is one of those people- I forget what her new flavor is, but she sure as hell isn't supporting gingrich, even against obama.

151 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:11:48am

I fear that Newt might just be approaching critical mass in the GOP. He just needs to stick to the core message of low taxes, less regulation and jobs, jobs, jobs.

If that turns out to be the case, his party and his supporters will be willing to ignore or rationalize anything unpleasant about his past actions, statements or associations.

And if the economy continues to spiral downwards, it only increases his chances.

152 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:16:30am

re: #151 ralphieboy

I fear that Newt might just be approaching critical mass in the GOP.

If that turns out to be the case, his party and his supporters will be willing to ignore or rationalize anything unpleasant about his past actions, statements or associations.

And if the economy continues to spiral downwards, it only increases his chances.

The best strategy for Obama in this case would be the easiest. Trying to fight both Newt and the GOP would be lunacy. What he has to do is get Newt and the GOP to fight each other. Demoralize the base so badly that they decide that another 4 years of Obama would be better than 4 years of defending Newt.

153 researchok  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:23:21am

Morning, all

154 boxhead  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:24:00am

re: #153 researchok

Morning, all

likewise!

155 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:24:11am

Newt's only problems with the GOP to date (aside from his infidelities, for which God has forgiven him) are his past slips-ups in supporting cap and trade or individual mandate.

if he can manage to distance himself from these statements then he will win the hearts and minds of the entire GOP and not just the base.

What they want to hear is the core message of lower taxes, less regulation and more jobs for everyone (even if it means multiple jobs for everyone).

156 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:26:32am

re: #148 goddamnedfrank

Hilarious but is this even legal? Newt may not be a public official so maybe it's not technically bribery but he is a registered presidential primary candidate.

It would be weird if this was illegal.

157 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:27:22am

A million bucks is a lot of Tiffany shopping, Newt...

158 boxhead  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:29:27am

re: #157 ralphieboy

A million bucks is a lot of Tiffany shopping, Newt...

I could not vote for a man leaving his wife while she is fighting cancer for another woman. That just about says it all about Newt's character.

159 McSpiff  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:36:13am

Louis CK gets it. For his new show, $5 gets you an unencrypted HD file. 10 min later I'm happily watching it on my TV. Now that's how its done.

160 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:36:27am

re: #155 ralphieboy

Newt's only problems with the GOP to date (aside from his infidelities, for which God has forgiven him) are his past slips-ups in supporting cap and trade or individual mandate.

if he can manage to distance himself from these statements then he will win the hearts and minds of the entire GOP and not just the base.

What they want to hear is the core message of lower taxes, less regulation and more jobs for everyone (even if it means multiple jobs for everyone).

What the base wants is a candidate who truly believes in the bullshit he's slinging, which is part of the reason why they're turned off by Romney, even before the fact that he's a Mormon comes into it. Newt can make excuses, such as calling such moves "stupid," but that will just turn off what few moderates and liberals are still left in the party. And the base doesn't really believe it, they're just making the worst of a bad situation by supporting him as the "Not-Romney" candidate.

161 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:36:57am

re: #156 Sergey Romanov

It would be weird if this was illegal.

For reference it is illegal in the US to pay a withdrawn candidate for their political endorsement. So hypothetically, if Newt accepts the offer and then endorses Romney, was that endorsement pre-paid? The system is enough of a travesty without exchanges of money directly limiting the options available to the electorate, this is why I think it would not be weird if it were against the law.

162 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:40:16am

There also seems to be a political strategy in tapping into vitriolic, gut-level hatred of Obama and everything associated with him. It works to an extent, but it will turn off a lot of voters who think first before reacting emotionally.

163 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:45:07am

re: #161 goddamnedfrank

And apparently there is recent precedent for thinking this kind of offer, at least if accepted, might not be legal:

Oklahoma County Special Judge Stephen Alcorn ruled Friday morning that prosecutors have presented sufficient evidence for Rep. Randy Terrill, R-Moore and former Democratic Sen. Debbe Leftwich to stand trial on felony bribery charges.

The charges, filed last December, stem from the state’s allegation that Leftwich agreed not to seek reelection last year in exchange for a new $80,000 job at the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner. Part of the alleged agreement is that GOP Rep. Mike Christian could then seek Leftwich’s Oklahoma Senate seat. However, Christian testified earlier this week that he intended to run for the seat whether or not Leftwich ran. He ultimately chose to seek reelection to his House seat.

In making his ruling, Alcorn expressed his repeated disappointment over what has been described as “business as usual” at the State Capitol.

164 boxhead  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:48:22am

re: #162 ralphieboy

There also seems to be a political strategy in tapping into vitriolic, gut-level hatred of Obama and everything associated with him. It works to an extent, but it will turn off a lot of voters who think first before reacting emotionally.

If it does work, that will be a sad sad reason to vote for someone. If only the GOP would bring a real contender into the ring. Same for the Dems.

165 Targetpractice  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 1:50:54am

re: #162 ralphieboy

There also seems to be a political strategy in tapping into vitriolic, gut-level hatred of Obama and everything associated with him. It works to an extent, but it will turn off a lot of voters who think first before reacting emotionally.

That's also part of the reason why Newt is being considered, because he's an experienced bomb-thrower who revels in stirring shit up. If nothing else, it makes him the center of attention, and that's where he loves to be. Just so long as the question isn't about fidelity or sanctity of marriage.

166 freetoken  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 2:04:20am

re: #138 ggt

That is not Ray Charles :)

MP3 Audio
167 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 2:08:29am

re: #166 freetoken

[Video]

It sounds like Joe Cocker

168 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 2:10:18am

re: #167 EdDantes

It sounds like Joe Cocker

I forgot the smiley face

169 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 2:38:28am

Still my favorite song of 2011

Youtube Video


if only things were different in 2011 :)

170 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 2:39:28am

re: #146 McSpiff

business

171 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 3:26:25am

Good Morning Folks

172 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 3:43:00am

Good Morning Honcos!

173 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 3:45:20am

Day 1 complete on our "Discordant Threads" exercise here at ICAF. Got our 3 options for the President on how to respond to AQAP attack at Dulles airport. Great fun.

174 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 3:51:16am

re: #173 rwdflynavy

Day 1 complete on our "Discordant Threads" exercise here at ICAF. Got our 3 options for the President on how to respond to AQAP attack at Dulles airport. Great fun.

I'm glad someone is taking care of that, I'm much too busy.

175 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 3:54:57am

re: #173 rwdflynavy

Day 1 complete on our "Discordant Threads" exercise here at ICAF. Got our 3 options for the President on how to respond to AQAP attack at Dulles airport. Great fun.

Icap, AQAP?

176 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:00:30am

re: #175 EdDantes

Icap, AQAP?

Sorry,

Industrial College of the Armed Forces
Al Qaida on the Arabian Penninsula

177 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:15:11am

Senators to Justice Department: Apologize to family of Sen. Ted Stevens
[Link: thehill.com...]

A bipartisan group of senators is calling on the Justice Department to apologize to the family of the late Sen. Ted Stevens and fire the attorneys accused of the withholding of evidence that contributed to his criminal conviction.

The former colleagues of the long-serving Alaskan Republican told The Hill that the DOJ’s prosecution of Stevens was a disgrace.

Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), a close friend of Stevens’s, said DOJ handled the case against the former senator “vindictively” and recommended the disbarment of the attorneys responsible for the botched trial. Hatch said the failure of the prosecutors to turn over key evidence was “the lowest” level of law and indicative of a hunger to convict powerful politicians even in the face of conflicting testimony.

“There are a lot of good people down at Justice, and they continue on no matter what, but there’s been a growth of ambitious prosecutors in this country — some are U.S. attorneys — who don’t care about justice, they just care about winning,” Hatch said in an interview.

“In this case, one of the most basic principles of law was ignored, and that was exculpatory evidence that would have cleared Stevens that should have said to them, ‘This man should never have been indicted to begin with,’ ” he said.

Several senators on both sides of the aisle agreed with Hatch, although the lawmakers noted the mishandling of the case has not undermined their confidence in the agency’s Public Integrity Section as a whole.

178 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:24:20am

re: #7 prononymous

I love it. The wave nature of light can be clearly seen in these videos. As the waves propagate and encounter objects some of the photons are scattered, sometimes several times, toward the camera and hence we can see them. Cool stuff.

That is the most interesting thing about light, its wave and particle nature. That you can 'split' it is really cool and makes for some interesting experiments.

179 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:26:55am

re: #178 RayFerd

Can this technology resolve the wave/particle conundrum?

180 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:28:23am

re: #177 RogueOne

Are these Senators just protecting their own interests?

181 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:44:08am

re: #180 EdDantes

Are these Senators just protecting their own interests?

I don't think so. The judge in this case blasted the prosecutors in a ruling when he found out they had been withholding evidence. They pulled the same crap on a senator that they routinely pull on ordinary citizens.

182 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:44:41am

re: #180 EdDantes

Are these Senators just protecting their own interests?

Most likely, but if DOJ people perjured themselves and concealed evidence, it's still a problem. If you're prosecuting someone for corruption and do it corruptly, then why bother?

183 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:46:06am

re: #182 Obdicut

Most likely, but if DOJ people perjured themselves and concealed evidence, it's still a problem. If you're prosecuting someone for corruption and do it corruptly, then why bother?

It's the American Way™.

184 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:46:27am

Rogue, obdicut I didn't see what evidence was concealed.

185 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:48:31am

re: #181 RogueOne

One of the funniest things is the ranty comment on that article:

Since when has the left EVER apologised for any of the perfidious acts it has engaged in???

Stevens was prosecuted with Bush was president, and it's Holder whose DOJ revealed the prosecutorial misconduct and is recommending dismissal of indictment.

The judge who refused to call a mistrail was appointed by Ronald Reagan.

Yet somehow, it's all a conspiracy by 'the left'.

186 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:49:02am

At the time I saw that he had accepted 80k from contractors for renovations to his home. Was there exculpatory evidence to the contrary?

187 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:49:09am

re: #184 EdDantes

Rogue, obdicut I didn't see what evidence was concealed.

Judge Tosses Stevens Verdict, Blasts Prosecutors
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

In a fatal blow to the corruption case against former Alaskan Sen. Ted Stevens, a federal judge granted a Justice Department request to throw out the guilty verdict against Stevens and ordered a criminal investigation into alleged misconduct by the prosecutors tasked with trying the case.

U.S. District Court Judge Emmet Sullivan, who rebuked the prosecutors repeatedly during the trial last fall, said today that "For 25 years I've told defendants they'd receive a fair trial… I've never seen such mishandling or misconduct."

Last week, the Justice Department took the extremely rare action to issue a mea culpa and announce its intention to drop the matter after prosecutors had already won a conviction in the high-profile case.

188 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:49:46am

re: #185 Obdicut

I routinely stay away from the comments sections unless I'm looking for a laugh.

189 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:49:53am

re: #184 EdDantes

Rogue, obdicut I didn't see what evidence was concealed.

The DOJ investigated and found that evidence had been concealed. I'm not seeing what that evidence is in any news story, but the DOJ is also saying people may have perjured themselves. Is there any reason you don't trust that investigation?

190 Varek Raith  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:50:19am

re: #188 RogueOne

I routinely stay away from the comments sections unless I'm looking for a laugh.

It's always the Jews.
Always.

191 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:51:44am

And I think Stevens was an obviously corrupt asshole who sold political favors.

But I can't prove it in a court of law, so I don't expect him to serve jail time for it.

Those that have the power and resources to make a case against him should have done so without fabrication. I fully believe they were able to, since I do think he's corrupt. So because of their jackassery, actual justice is inhibited.

192 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:56:07am

re: #189 Obdicut

The DOJ investigated and found that evidence had been concealed. I'm not seeing what that evidence is in any news story, but the DOJ is also saying people may have perjured themselves. Is there any reason you don't trust that investigation?

I have no opinion on the investigation. I was asking what was concealed.

193 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 4:57:03am

re: #192 EdDantes

I have no opinion on the investigation. I was asking what was concealed.

We probably won't know until the investigations are complete and the reports come out.

194 EdDantes  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 5:02:25am

Good night, everyone. I have to fax my happy david to the bank.

195 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 5:07:58am

re: #46 The Ghost of a Flea

Which will be interesting, since within the last year the same anti-AGW people were using the deflection of "why aren't people more worried about methane rather than whining about caps on C02?"

If they had bothered to read any of the reports about warming that point would have been abundantly clear. The reports state that the initial problem is with CO2 but the positive feedback would start releasing frozen methane beneath the permafrost which would escalate the warming at an alarming rate, causing a huge accelerator to the positive feedback loop. But simple minds can barely hold one thought in there at one time let alone a multitude of factors that contribute to a problem.

And to those that say CO2 is just a natural part of nature I say, tie a plastic bag around your head and I will come check on you in half an hour. See how well you do with a CO2 rich environment.

196 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 5:29:44am

re: #179 EdDantes

Can this technology resolve the wave/particle conundrum?

Don't know about resolve, but it can shed more light on the properties of each. And maybe give some insight into how to utilize these properties more efficiently. Being able to see what is truly happening in an experiment really helps in envisioning possibilities or what you can do with different effects.

Or it could just make a better lava lamp, who knows.

197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 5:44:26am
These are the days of miracle and wonder
This is the long distance call
The way the camera follows us in slo-mo
The way we look to us all
The way we look to a distant constellation
That's dying in a corner of the sky
These are the days of miracle and wonder
And don't cry baby, don't cry
-Paul Simon

Was talking to a guy at tech support yesterday about how we take technology for granted. He got into my computer from Florida to do a tweak. Right now as I post to this blog, I'm sitting in my living-room streaming Netflix on an LCD Hi-def television, posting with a laptop over a wireless connection.

Most of the things we do on a daily (hourly) basis were un-thinkable to the general public even 30 years ago.

198 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 5:48:44am

re: #185 Obdicut

One of the funniest things is the ranty comment on that article:

Stevens was prosecuted with Bush was president, and it's Holder whose DOJ revealed the prosecutorial misconduct and is recommending dismissal of indictment.

The judge who refused to call a mistrail was appointed by Ronald Reagan.

Yet somehow, it's all a conspiracy by 'the left'.

Idiocy.

I'm so sick of politicians, either side, esp. at the national level.

For them, it's so rarely about doing the right thing; and so often all about making sure the "other side" gets slammed. Never mind that both parties are made up of actual real human beings (like you, like me), most of whom are good people wanting the best possible outcome, and divided on how to get there.

199 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 5:56:51am

re: #197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Was talking to a guy at tech support yesterday about how we take technology for granted. He got into my computer from Florida to do a tweak. Right now as I post to this blog, I'm sitting in my living-room streaming Netflix on an LCD Hi-def television, posting with a laptop over a wireless connection.

Most of the things we do on a daily (hourly) basis were un-thinkable to the general public even 30 years ago.

Watch out, they want to take technology, or as we know it as a cell phone, out of your car.

Hands-free or not, the feds say any type of cell phone use is just too dangerous while driving

(WXYZ) - Hands-free or not, the feds say any type of cell phone use is just too dangerous while driving.

But the National Transportation Safety Board can't impose restrictions, so it’s urging every state to adopt such a ban.

200 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 5:57:34am

re: #198 reine.de.tout

Idiocy.

I'm so sick of politicians, either side, esp. at the national level.

For them, it's so rarely about doing the right thing; and so often all about making sure the "other side" gets slammed. Never mind that both parties are made up of actual real human beings (like you, like me), most of whom are good people wanting the best possible outcome, and divided on how to get there.

I don't see the people of America as acting much better than the politicians. They're electing them. Sure, there's propaganda and misinformation and disinformation, but at the end of the day, someone sees Michelle Bachmann, hears her hateful lunacy, and still votes for her.

We can't blame politicians without blaming ourselves.

And both sides may have jackasses and self-serving dweebs on them-- in all my time meeting with state Senators, I've yet to meet one who didn't seem like he/she wasn't acting under the assumption that they were incredibly important and destined for great things-- but that doesn't mean both sides are having an equally detrimental effect on politics in this nation.

I'd also note that in this case, it's Eric Holder-- a Democratic appointee-- working to clear the indictment of Stevens, a Republican, and numerous R and D's agreeing that the process was screwed up.

So as "Both sides just trying to slam each other" examples go, this actually shows the exact opposite.

Did I miss something?

201 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 5:57:35am

Paul Ryan, one of the runner ups, Time Magazine's Person of the Year.

First place, some person who spells his name with a hashtag.

202 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:04:32am

re: #200 Obdicut

I don't see the people of America as acting much better than the politicians. They're electing them. Sure, there's propaganda and misinformation and disinformation, but at the end of the day, someone sees Michelle Bachmann, hears her hateful lunacy, and still votes for her.

We can't blame politicians without blaming ourselves.

And both sides may have jackasses and self-serving dweebs on them-- in all my time meeting with state Senators, I've yet to meet one who didn't seem like he/she wasn't acting under the assumption that they were incredibly important and destined for great things-- but that doesn't mean both sides are having an equally detrimental effect on politics in this nation.

I'd also note that in this case, it's Eric Holder-- a Democratic appointee-- working to clear the indictment of Stevens, a Republican, and numerous R and D's agreeing that the process was screwed up.

So as "Both sides just trying to slam each other" examples go, this actually shows the exact opposite.

Did I miss something?

You didn't miss anything. My "idiocy" comment was reserved for this incident, no further comment. I was not trying to do an equivalency thing, regardless of your attempt to portray it that way. Whichever party is not holding the office of the Presidency is worse during that period, for some reason.

I have little faith that anything any major league politician does is for the purpose of doing the right thing rather than for the purpose of showing up the other side.
Doing the right thing may be part of it; but mostly? It's mostly all calculated to make some sort of point.

203 prairiefire  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:06:59am

Time magazines person of the year: "The Protester"[Link: www.time.com...]

204 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:07:22am

re: #202 reine.de.tout

You didn't miss anything. My "idiocy" comment was reserved for this incident, no further comment. I was not trying to do an equivalency thing, regardless of your attempt to portray it that way. Whichever party is not holding the office of the Presidency is worse during that period, for some reason.

I don't think that's true, though. And I wasn't trying to portray you as having done anything, and not sure why you think I was.

I have little faith that anything any major league politician does is for the purpose of doing the right thing rather than for the purpose of showing up the other side.

But this actual story is really one of bipartisan cooperation. That's what's confusing me here. In this case, Holder is working to help Stevens, and numerous other Democrats are. now, it may be self-serving because all of them take kickbacks, direct or indirect, but it's definitely not being done to show up the other side.

205 prairiefire  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:08:00am

re: #202 reine.de.tout

I think President Obama believes the Health Care Reform Act was the right thing to do.

206 iossarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:09:59am

I think that many Republican politicians think that sending gay people to prison is the right thing to do.

207 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:10:18am

re: #202 reine.de.tout

Oh, and even though all the state senators I've met are vain and pompous, many did have individual causes that they feel strongly about. Maybe it's all an act, but that would be rather inhuman.

208 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:10:45am

The Republican War on Christmas.

My dead FIL just got mail from the RNC, wanting to know why he hasn't donated since the funeral. The "hand-written" PPS from Reince Priebus says: "Have a safe and happy holiday season --and thanks for..."

209 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:12:20am

re: #208 Decatur Deb

Whereas the one that my wife and I got from her med school says the rather mixed-message "Merry Christmas during this Holiday Season".

210 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:12:39am

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

Watch out, they want to take technology, or as we know it as a cell phone, out of your car.

Hands-free or not, the feds say any type of cell phone use is just too dangerous while driving

I've told my wife that if she ever has an injury accident while on the damn thing, I'm turning state's evidence.

211 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:12:55am

re: #208 Decatur Deb

The Republican War on Christmas.

My dead FIL just got mail from the RNC, wanting to know why he hasn't donated since the funeral. The "hand-written" PPS from Reince Priebus says: "Have a safe and happy holiday season --and thanks for..."

Might be a little late for that

212 iossarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:13:17am

re: #209 Obdicut

Whereas the one that my wife and I got from her med school says the rather mixed-message "Merry Christmas during this Holiday Season".

Maybe they customize them per recipient.

"Have a great time celebrating Eid during this Holiday Season."

213 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:14:21am

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

Watch out, they want to take technology, or as we know it as a cell phone, out of your car.

Hands-free or not, the feds say any type of cell phone use is just too dangerous while driving

How is using a hands-free phone any different from having a conversation with somebody in the passenger seat?

214 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:14:51am

re: #210 Decatur Deb

I've told my wife that if she ever has an injury accident while on the damn thing, I'm turning state's evidence.

I make it a regular habit to ignore the cell phone while driving. Most of that is due to the fact that my current daily driver is a manual transmission, and thus requires the use of both hands when navigating through city traffic.

215 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:15:37am

re: #212 iossarian

Maybe they customize them per recipient.

"Have a great time celebrating Eid during this Holiday Season."

If they did, they get it wrong, since my wife and I are both atheists. Though we have Christmas, because it's not like Christmas as it exists is actually a religious holiday anyway. So sure, merry Christmas all the live long day. No skin off my nose. Except that I don't like the materialism of it all.

Heh, last year I tried to sign up to work at a homeless shelter on Christmas, only to learn that apparently that's the day everyone tries to sign up. Made me feel pretty embarrassed. So I signed up for the first week of January instead.

216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:16:31am

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

I am so freakin' on the fence on this... I, certainly can use a cell phone while I drive (heavy usage for almost 25 years, no accidents); at the same time, I see many people doing very stupid things because they're using them.

Was almost ran over by a lady last night in a Wal-Mart parking lot because she was talking on her cell (WHY IN THE FUCK! WAS SHE HOLDING HER CELL PHONE IN HER RIGHT HAND TO HER LEFT EAR WHILE DRIVING!?!?). Lucky for me she was driving at about a mile and a half an hour.

I'd give it up... but, gosh, I'd be pissed.

217 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:16:34am

re: #213 Alouette

How is using a hands-free phone any different from having a conversation with somebody in the passenger seat?

Or eating a meal you grabbed in a drive-thru....

Did you notice they also want hands-free units banned too? Well, hands-free units that are made by automakers are ok but the others are somehow bad.

218 iossarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:18:40am

re: #215 Obdicut

If they did, they get it wrong, since my wife and I are both atheists. Though we have Christmas, because it's not like Christmas as it exists is actually a religious holiday anyway. So sure, merry Christmas all the live long day. No skin off my nose. Except that I don't like the materialism of it all.

So maybe they just aren't that accurate with the customization. (A bit like the Pam Gellar customization of allegiance accusations: foreign name = muslim).

Heh, last year I tried to sign up to work at a homeless shelter on Christmas, only to learn that apparently that's the day everyone tries to sign up. Made me feel pretty embarrassed. So I signed up for the first week of January instead.

That's pretty funny. Good for you for signing up though.

219 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:19:16am

re: #213 Alouette

How is using a hands-free phone any different from having a conversation with somebody in the passenger seat?

Next thing they will ban to keep people from getting distracted is drinks, children, and billboards.

220 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:20:03am

re: #215 Obdicut

If they did, they get it wrong, since my wife and I are both atheists. Though we have Christmas, because it's not like Christmas as it exists is actually a religious holiday anyway. So sure, merry Christmas all the live long day. No skin off my nose. Except that I don't like the materialism of it all.

Heh, last year I tried to sign up to work at a homeless shelter on Christmas, only to learn that apparently that's the day everyone tries to sign up. Made me feel pretty embarrassed. So I signed up for the first week of January instead.

The local Jewish Community Center has a sign-up sheet for "Mitzvah Day" (Dec. 25) where people can sign up to do "good deeds" for people on Christmas. I supposed this day will be concluded with a huge feast at a Chinese restaurant. I could never figure out this type of Jew who feels guilty about not doing something "special" on Christmas.

Personally speaking, I have many times gone in to work, perform backup and maintenance on Christmas and New Year's and never made a big deal out of it. Although this year they are closing the center for the last week in December and it sucks because, no pay.

221 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:20:34am

re: #216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

In IN the no text law just went into effect. The rule is no texting or emailing but everything else (including browsing the internet) is ok and the police aren't allowed to look at your phone to prove you were texting/emailing. $500 fine if you're stupid enough to admit it when you get pulled over.

222 reine.de.tout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:20:45am

re: #204 Obdicut

I don't think that's true, though. And I wasn't trying to portray you as having done anything, and not sure why you think I was.

But this actual story is really one of bipartisan cooperation. That's what's confusing me here. In this case, Holder is working to help Stevens, and numerous other Democrats are. now, it may be self-serving because all of them take kickbacks, direct or indirect, but it's definitely not being done to show up the other side.

I haven't had coffee; looking at my posts, I'm thinking they don't make the sense I intended to make. I need grab a cup, nay, a POT of coffee and come back later.

223 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:21:15am

re: #219 NJDhockeyfan

Next thing they will ban to keep people from getting distracted is drinks, children, and billboards.

Ban talk radio!

224 iossarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:22:11am

re: #221 RogueOne

In IN the no text law just went into effect. The rule is no texting or emailing but everything else (including browsing the internet) is ok and the police aren't allowed to look at your phone to prove you were texting/emailing. $500 fine if you're stupid enough to admit it when you get pulled over.

"Good afternoon officer. My lawyer has instructed me not to tell you what I was doing with my phone, or the speed at which I believe I was just driving. Is there anything else I can help you with?"

225 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:22:16am

re: #220 Alouette

I have so much fucking work to do I'm going to be working on Christmas. My parents are trying to get me to come to Connecticut for the day, and I might, but dear lord I have a lot of work. Going to be fourteen hour days for the next while. With frequent breaks for compiling, but still.

226 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:22:16am

re: #223 Alouette

Ban talk radio!

Hell, ban the radio & cd players while were at it.

227 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:22:35am

re: #222 reine.de.tout

I haven't had coffee; looking at my posts, I'm thinking they don't make the sense I intended to make. I need grab a cup, nay, a POT of coffee and come back later.

No problem. Please just know I wasn't trying to imply anything about you, and good morning.

228 prairiefire  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:22:45am

re: #222 reine.de.tout

I haven't had coffee; looking at my posts, I'm thinking they don't make the sense I intended to make. I need grab a cup, nay, a POT of coffee and come back later.

I'm worthless w/o my morning coffee.

229 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:22:46am

re: #213 Alouette

Or using the radio or any other components of a car?

Fact is that it's all too easy to get distracted while driving. Cell phones that aren't hands free are a distraction that can and should get limited. Much less convinced about hands free.

Ergonomics of some car components - like incomprehensible and minuscule buttons for AC/radios and the touch/lcd screens may be just as distracting. That's something that the manufacturers need to look at.

I would support a nationwide cell phone ban that requires hands free phone capabilities, but it seems a bit of a stretch to say that hands free should also be banned.

You get to a point of diminishing returns on enforcement - limited money that can be spent elsewhere (like making it safer for pedestrians to cross streets at crosswalks).

230 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:23:04am

re: #176 rwdflynavy

Sorry,

Industrial College of the Armed Forces
Al Qaida on the Arabian Penninsula

Is the response different if it's some sort of native "militia" unit making the attack?

231 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:23:30am

re: #223 Alouette

Ban talk radio!

Heh. It's scientifically demonstrable that angry people drive worse, so there's a case to be made for that.

Only soothing whale song to be played from now on.

I actually find whale song slightly paranoia-inducing. What are they really saying?

232 iossarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:23:57am

re: #231 Obdicut

I actually find whale song slightly paranoia-inducing. What are they really saying?

STOP DUMPING THAT SHIT IN MY HOUSE

233 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:24:27am

re: #181 RogueOne

I don't think so. The judge in this case blasted the prosecutors in a ruling when he found out they had been withholding evidence. They pulled the same crap on a senator that they routinely pull on ordinary citizens.

Though the apology is demanded for the Senator mind you, and not for the other people screwed over the same way.

234 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:24:27am

re: #231 Obdicut

Heh. It's scientifically demonstrable that angry people drive worse, so there's a case to be made for that.

Only soothing whale song to be played from now on.

I actually find whale song slightly paranoia-inducing. What are they really saying?

So long, and thanks for all the fish, of course!

235 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:24:35am

re: #232 iossarian

STOP DUMPING THAT SHIT IN MY HOUSE

Hey look, there's YET ANOTHER shipwreck. Looks like I'm adding another $1 billion to the pile.

236 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:24:40am

re: #232 iossarian

STOP DUMPING THAT SHIT IN MY HOUSE

HUMANS TASTE GOOD PASS IT ALONG.

237 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:24:47am

re: #231 Obdicut

Heh. It's scientifically demonstrable that angry people drive worse, so there's a case to be made for that.

Only soothing whale song to be played from now on.

I actually find whale song slightly paranoia-inducing. What are they really saying?

They are saying "Turn off the phones in that boat, it's dangerous!"

238 iossarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:25:32am

re: #235 thedopefishlives

Hey look, there's YET ANOTHER shipwreck. Looks like I'm adding another $1 billion to the pile.

Ha. That one put coffee on my keyboard. Well done.

re: #236 Obdicut

HUMANS TASTE GOOD PASS ALONG.

Another good one.

239 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:26:27am

re: #226 NJDhockeyfan

Hell, ban the radio & cd players while were at it.

Cool enough. My truck has no radio, no CD, no Cellphone, no GPS (magnetic compass-OK), no power windows (no roll-up either), no adjustable seats. It does have blackout lights and an EMP-proof ignition (take that, Cheney).

240 darthstar  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:29:04am

re: #229 lawhawk

When I was young, I'd balance a beer in my lap, change cassette tapes in the deck(and my tapes were scattered around my pickup), and roll a joint while driving and rarely did I get into an accident. I don't know that I could have done all that with the added complication of a cell phone. Seriously.

241 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:29:16am

re: #239 Decatur Deb

Cool enough. My truck has no radio, no CD, no Cellphone, no GPS (magnetic compass-OK), no power windows (no roll-up either), no adjustable seats. It does have blackout lights and an EMP-proof ignition (take that, Cheney).

How about a CB?

242 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:29:20am

re: #213 Alouette

How is using a hands-free phone any different from having a conversation with somebody in the passenger seat?

The person on the phone is less likely to get hurt if you have an accident due to getting distracted by the conversation?
/

243 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:29:44am

re: #239 Decatur Deb

You drive a fucking Model - T?

244 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:30:03am

re: #239 Decatur Deb

Cool enough. My truck has no radio, no CD, no Cellphone, no GPS (magnetic compass-OK), no power windows (no roll-up either), no adjustable seats. It does have blackout lights and an EMP-proof ignition (take that, Cheney).

You sound old///

245 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:30:44am

re: #214 thedopefishlives

I make it a regular habit to ignore the cell phone while driving. Most of that is due to the fact that my current daily driver is a manual transmission, and thus requires the use of both hands when navigating through city traffic.

Standard rules!

My brother refers to it as the only car anti-theft device that reduces the cost of the car when you buy it.

246 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:31:55am

re: #240 darthstar

When I was young, I'd balance a beer in my lap, change cassette tapes in the deck(and my tapes were scattered around my pickup), and roll a joint while driving and rarely did I get into an accident. I don't know that I could have done all that with the added complication of a cell phone. Seriously.

That's sounds very risky, you could have spilled your beer!

247 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:32:29am

re: #245 oaktree

Standard rules!

My brother refers to it as the only car anti-theft device that reduces the cost of the car when you buy it.

This is my first standard transmission car that I've owned. I learned to drive one from my neighbor's farm truck, but it fell into disuse over the years thanks to all the automatics I drove in the meantime. It was a bit of a learning curve when I rented a car over in Ireland for my wife's and my honeymoon and it was a standard transmission. She still makes fun of me for it.

248 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:32:37am

re: #219 NJDhockeyfan

Next thing they will ban to keep people from getting distracted is drinks, children, and billboards.

Followed by all attractive persons of the same/opposite gender. Uniform grey and baggy overalls for everyone! Along with facemasks. Oh no! Creeping Sharia!
//

249 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:33:41am

re: #240 darthstar

When I was young, I'd balance a beer in my lap, change cassette tapes in the deck(and my tapes were scattered around my pickup), and roll a joint while driving and rarely did I get into an accident. I don't know that I could have done all that with the added complication of a cell phone. Seriously.

You did that too?

250 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:34:00am

re: #221 RogueOne

In IN the no text law just went into effect. The rule is no texting or emailing but everything else (including browsing the internet) is ok and the police aren't allowed to look at your phone to prove you were texting/emailing. $500 fine if you're stupid honest enough to admit it when you get pulled over.

Fixed that for you.

251 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:34:37am

re: #248 oaktree

Followed by all attractive persons of the same/opposite gender. Uniform grey and baggy overalls for everyone!
//

Sounds like 1984. The scarlet sash of the Junior Anti-sex League to match!

252 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:35:01am

re: #248 oaktree

Followed by all attractive persons of the same/opposite gender. Uniform grey and baggy overalls for everyone! Along with facemasks. Oh no! Creeping Sharia!
//

And make it illegal for Hooters girls to walk on the sidewalk.

253 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:35:23am

re: #251 iceweasel

Sounds like 1984. The scarlet sash of the Junior Anti-sex League to match!

Good morning, {ice}. How are things across the pond?

254 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:36:18am

re: #253 thedopefishlives

Good morning, {ice}. How are things across the pond?

Hello, {fishie!} It's cold, wet, and rainy here-- in other words, winter! How's the wild north country treating you?

255 darthstar  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:36:35am

re: #249 NJDhockeyfan

You did that too?

More often than not...it was a three hour drive from Sacramento State University to my parent's house in northern California - or as I measured it, a six pack and a full joint. Concerts in the bay area were closer - three beers and a bowl.

256 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:37:03am

re: #254 iceweasel

Hello, {fishie!} It's cold, wet, and rainy here-- in other words, winter! How's the wild north country treating you?

Cold, wet, and rainy, heh. All of our lovely snow has melted and it looks to be a brown Christmas here. Good thing I'm not actually going to BE here for Christmas, then.

257 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:37:24am

re: #256 thedopefishlives

Cold, wet, and rainy, heh. All of our lovely snow has melted and it looks to be a brown Christmas here. Good thing I'm not actually going to BE here for Christmas, then.

Where will you be for Christmas?

258 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:38:07am

re: #254 iceweasel

Hello, {fishie!} It's cold, wet, and rainy here-- in other words, winter! How's the wild north country treating you?

I thought cold, wet, and rainy was the default for England and Scotland in general regardless of the season. We can turn off the Gulf Stream for a few years to get you some snow if you want more skiing weather!

259 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:38:21am

re: #257 iceweasel

Where will you be for Christmas?

Back home in fish country with my family.

260 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:39:17am

re: #259 thedopefishlives

Back home in fish country with my family.

i didn't realise you weren't in fish country now!

261 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:40:06am

re: #260 iceweasel

i didn't realise you weren't in fish country now!

Yeah, "fish country" is my home state of Indiana, where the fish family immigrated from Ireland/Scotland back in the late 1700's. I'm a transplant to the wild north country. :)

262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:40:22am

re: #247 thedopefishlives

Wouldn't it be funny to watch a car-jacker who couldn't drive a straight get him one. Half a block... jumps out of the car and runs.

263 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:40:33am

re: #258 oaktree

I thought cold, wet, and rainy was the default for England and Scotland in general regardless of the season.

It is! I don't think I went outside without some kind of coat or jacket on any day this past year. Even when it was sunny, it was windy.

264 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:40:56am

re: #241 NJDhockeyfan

How about a CB?

re: #243 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No CB, but it is called an FFR (Fitted for Radio). Its massive 24 volt system supported a large Clansman VFH set for the Belgian army.

Pretty much this:

Image: 4962680823_1ca302fc0b.jpg

265 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:41:35am

re: #261 thedopefishlives

Yeah, "fish country" is my home state of Indiana, where the fish family immigrated from Ireland/Scotland back in the late 1700's. I'm a transplant to the wild north country. :)

So you migrate between "flat" and "flat with extra lakes"?

Glacial terrain for the win, courtesy of the Wisconsin Ice Sheet and relatives thereof.

Additional note: They teach about the Wisconsin Ice Sheet in Indiana elementary school education. (Or at least they used to.)

266 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:42:23am

re: #262 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wouldn't it be funny to watch a car-jacker who couldn't drive a straight get him one. Half a block... jumps out o the car and runs.

Probably blow the engine after half a block.

267 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:45:22am

re: #266 thedopefishlives

Probably blow the engine after half a block.

Will probably stall it out before then. Especially with a car with a really narrow clutch point. We had a 1983? Buick Skylark that my father would stall - and he'd been driving standard his whole life. A truly crappy car with a standard since it was designed for automatic transmission as the default.

268 darthstar  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:46:57am

re: #266 thedopefishlives

Probably blow the engine after half a block.

What's this third pedal?

269 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:47:29am

re: #265 oaktree

So you migrate between "flat" and "flat with extra lakes"?

Glacial terrain for the win, courtesy of the Wisconsin Ice Sheet and relatives thereof.

Get this: My wife, who is a Minnesota native, complains that Indiana is "too flat". Because Minnesota is renowned for its rolling terrain. Right.

270 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:47:33am

re: #268 darthstar

What's this third pedal?

Self-destruct mechanism! (If you don't know what it is.)

271 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:50:41am

re: #265 oaktree

So you migrate between "flat" and "flat with extra lakes"?

Glacial terrain for the win, courtesy of the Wisconsin Ice Sheet and relatives thereof.

Additional note: They teach about the Wisconsin Ice Sheet in Indiana elementary school education. (Or at least they used to.)

IIRC, the ice sheet stopped in my back yard in KY, leaving glacial till called the "Kentucky Knobs".

272 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:51:10am

re: #269 thedopefishlives

Get this: My wife, who is a Minnesota native, complains that Indiana is "too flat". Because Minnesota is renowned for its rolling terrain. Right.

Rolling due to dig and dump by the glaciers.

I lived for nine years in Indiana and recalled the hills there when I was bicycling around in my youth. Was back through there in the late 80s and got the driver to stop by the old house. Almost didn't recognize the place since the "hill" near the house had the vertical displacement of a speed bump.

A lot of differences between perceiving the world as a 9-year-old and an adult. And also living in actual hilly terrain.

273 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:53:26am

re: #272 oaktree

Rolling due to dig and dump by the glaciers.

I lived for nine years in Indiana and recalled the hills there when I was bicycling around in my youth. Was back through there in the late 80s and got the driver to stop by the old house. Almost didn't recognize the place since the "hill" near the house had the vertical displacement of a speed bump.

A lot of differences between perceiving the world as a 9-year-old and an adult. And also living in actual hilly terrain.

Yeah, that's the long and short of it. There is some beautiful hilly country in the south of Indiana, near the Kentucky border. But of course, fish country is on the almost glass-like flat plains of the central part of the state. I think it is a lovely place, especially for driving, but my wife thinks it's boring.

274 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:53:47am

re: #271 Decatur Deb

IIRC, the ice sheet stopped in my back yard in KY, leaving glacial till called the "Kentucky Knobs".

Fact-checked myself--our area south of Louisville was glacial till, but the name "Kentucky Knobs" is applied to different eroded features.

275 darthstar  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:54:02am

Cellist Yo Yo Ma lying on a bathroom floor with a wombat.
Image: 5f511e27-b451-4747-8f26-eb60002142db.jpg

276 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:55:04am

re: #275 darthstar

Cellist Yo Yo Ma lying on a bathroom floor with a wombat.
Image: 5f511e27-b451-4747-8f26-eb60002142db.jpg

That must have been one weird office christmas party

277 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:56:10am

re: #271 Decatur Deb

IIRC, the ice sheet stopped in my back yard in KY, leaving glacial till called the "Kentucky Knobs".

Probably. There is a Morraine State Park north of Pittsburgh where the terminal morraine lies of the last glacial move in that area. Up in western New York around Rochester is lots of glacial features as well if you know what to look for. Pot ponds, eskers, drumlins, etc. Whole region essentially looks like a giant Scots links golf course. ;)

278 Decatur Deb  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:56:21am

re: #276 RogueOne

That must have been one weird office christmas party

The bassoonist will probably never be the same.

279 darthstar  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:58:48am

This'll get some insecure people's panties in a twist. Some athiest group here is quoting the Treaty of Tripoli in a billboard.

[Link: www.examiner.com...]

280 darthstar  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:59:51am

re: #279 darthstar

This'll get some insecure people's panties in a twist. Some athiest group here is quoting the Treaty of Tripoli in a billboard.

[Link: www.examiner.com...]

It's in Costa Mesa...a fairly conservative part of the state

281 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 6:59:53am

re: #273 thedopefishlives

Yeah, that's the long and short of it. There is some beautiful hilly country in the south of Indiana, near the Kentucky border. But of course, fish country is on the almost glass-like flat plains of the central part of the state. I think it is a lovely place, especially for driving, but my wife thinks it's boring.

Well, The Great Flatness essentially runs from central Ohio to Denver. With all the relief features being erosional for the most part - thus the "hilly" sections of Indiana and Kentucky down near the Ohio River.

I was living in the central part of the state as well - Richmond. Bicycled over the "highest point in Indiana" a few times. Which is essentially a slightly higher point on a fairly level road.

282 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:04:29am

re: #281 oaktree

I was in CA a few weeks back, and went to Death Valley and Sequoia/Kings Canyon National Parks. Within 85 miles of each other, you can go from the lowest point in the western hemisphere (-282 feet below sea level) to the tallest peak in the lower 48 - Mount Whitney 14,505 feet). To say that the elevation change is extreme between the two is an understatement.

It's also the most fun I've had driving in years.

283 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:08:42am

re: #282 lawhawk

I was in CA a few weeks back, and went to Death Valley and Sequoia/Kings Canyon National Parks. Within 85 miles of each other, you can go from the lowest point in the western hemisphere (-282 feet below sea level) to the tallest peak in the lower 48 - Mount Whitney 14,505 feet). To say that the elevation change is extreme between the two is an understatement.

It's also the most fun I've had driving in years.

Yea, the West is the land of geographical extremes. "Younger" geology and thus hasn't been worn down as long as the eastern US in the current geological cycle.

I wasn't aware of how complex California was geologically until I read McPhee's _Annals of the Former World_. The Malaysian Peninsula is another complex beast as well.

284 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:09:45am

Activist blames officers for arrest at Houston strip club
[Link: www.chron.com...]

Longtime gay and prison activist Ray Hill says Houston police violated his free speech rights last week during an arrest at a strip club, explaining he went there to get arrested to show how police bully citizens who question them.

Hill, 71, was arrested at 11 p.m. Thursday at the Treasures club on Westheimer after vice officers said he refused several orders to leave the club during a raid.
....
The activist said on Monday that police did not ask him to leave the club. He played part of a surveillance video from the club that appears to show him being arrested a few seconds after he first spoke to a police officer. Misdemeanor charges of interference with public duties allege Hill pushed a police officer and pulled his hand away from the officer.

If "Strip Club Activist" had been an option during HS career day my life could have been completely different.

285 darthstar  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:14:49am

re: #284 RogueOne

Activist blames officers for arrest at Houston strip club
[Link: www.chron.com...]

If "Strip Club Activist" had been an option during HS career day my life could have been completely different.

They still raid strip clubs in Texas? That state is fucked up...

286 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:16:07am

re: #282 lawhawk

I was in CA a few weeks back, and went to Death Valley and Sequoia/Kings Canyon National Parks. Within 85 miles of each other, you can go from the lowest point in the western hemisphere (-282 feet below sea level) to the tallest peak in the lower 48 - Mount Whitney 14,505 feet). To say that the elevation change is extreme between the two is an understatement.

It's also the most fun I've had driving in years.

I haven't been in the mountains in California yet. But I did get to drive over the Cascades in Oregon a few times (Portland Bend). Desert to Temperate Rain Forest, with the altitude-induced environmental changes tossed in as well. The Columbia River Valley is also really interesting as well.

And if you ever get up into southern Oregon Crater Lake is a must see if you can manage it.

287 darthstar  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:16:20am

okay...time to run the boys

288 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:16:33am

morning lizards!

289 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:17:16am

Royal Canadian Mounted Police:

Mountie pleads guilty to having sex with female officer
[Link: www.theprovince.com...]

At an RCMP sex-conduct hearing on Monday a high-ranking B.C. Mountie pleaded guilty to having sex with a female subordinate during work hours in his RCMP-issued undercover vehicle, and exchanging intimate messages via an RCMP BlackBerry.

Const. Susan Gastaldo and Staff-Sgt. Travis Pearson are accused of having sex in a police car and exchanging intimate messages in 2009, while Gastaldo worked for Pearson in the “Special O” surveillance unit in and around Burnaby.
......
A young recruit who was brought onto the unit by Pearson — and cannot be named because she is still active in Special O — said she saw Pearson as a mentor, and she never saw him do anything inappropriate to other officers.

“Yes, I would work under him,” the [young] blond-haired woman said, when questioned by Const. James Rowland, Pearson’s counsel, about Pearson’s fitness to continue as a leader in police service.

wink wink, nudge nudge

290 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:24:44am

re: #286 oaktree

It's on the Honey-Do list, along with Yellowstone (again), Yosemite, Glacier, and Big Bend.

We always seem to do a ton of driving during our trips. The more driving - the better. Last trip was nearly 1,800 miles. I'll have to post details and photos on the blog sometime. For a trip to Crater Lake, we'd probably fly into Eugene and loop around.

291 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:25:55am

Crucial vote could help determine power of Egypt's Islamists

Egyptians headed to the polls Wednesday for a critical round of voting to shape the new parliament.

The second round in the country's three-stage election process, Wednesday's vote is vital because it includes the Giza, Luxor, Aswan and Ismailia regions, which have historically favored conservative Islamic candidates.

Egypt's Islamists claimed victory in the first round of elections in other parts of the country last week.

The early results have triggered tensions between leaders of the Islamist parties and the military council that is running Egypt until a new government is formed.

292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:27:29am

re: #290 lawhawk

My wife wants to go on a two week drive through the Montana, Wyoming, Washington State, Oregon, Idaho and Utah next year.

I love driving, I think it'd be a kick.

293 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:32:11am

re: #292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's the kind of drive I'd do if I had that kind of time.

Heck, we could spend 2 weeks driving in Utah alone (hitting Canyonlands, Moab, Rainbow, and the previously seen Bryce, Zion, and Capitol Reef).

294 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:33:54am

re: #290 lawhawk

It's on the Honey-Do list, along with Yellowstone (again), Yosemite, Glacier, and Big Bend.

We always seem to do a ton of driving during our trips. The more driving - the better. Last trip was nearly 1,800 miles. I'll have to post details and photos on the blog sometime. For a trip to Crater Lake, we'd probably fly into Eugene and loop around.

If you get up to Glacier a trip over the border to Banff is worth it as well. Though I hear the glaciers themselves are not what they used to be.

(My family did a month long trip in the early 70s. Starting in Indiana and went northwest and then came back from the far west. Saw Glacier, Banff, Yellowstone, Devil's Tower, and a number of lesser attractions. Other vacations in the same time period included visiting grandparents who had retired to Tucson. So I got to see the Grand Canyon and the Sonora Desert that way. Didn't get to see the joys that are Colorado and Oregon until the 90s when family were living there.

Touring California is probably the biggest gap left in seeing the Lower 48.

295 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:35:00am

Leak blamed for canceled Occupy-Dem confab

The U.S. Congressional Progressive Caucus axed a meeting with Occupy activists, a move observers say shows growing tension between Democrats and the movement.
....
"Democrats should reject Occupy Wall Street as the spokesmen for the 99 percent," said Kelly Bingel, who was a former chief of staff to Sen. Blanche Lincoln, D-Ark., and now involved in government affairs. "The chance of those guys going out and voting or encouraging anyone else to vote is very low."

Another Democratic lobbyist agreed, telling Roll Call anonymously, "I think Democrats need to stay away from embracing OWS. We can acknowledge their frustrations without embracing their movement."

The Occupy movement -- with its encampments, confrontations with police, property damage and arrests -- doesn't resonate well with middle America, the lobbyist said.

"Let the Republicans be the party of the angry right," he said. "We need to be the party where moderates feel welcomed."

296 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:35:32am

re: #292 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My wife wants to go on a two week drive through the Montana, Wyoming, Washington State, Oregon, Idaho and Utah next year.

I love driving, I think it'd be a kick.

Do you do all the driving, or switch off?

297 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:36:00am

re: #293 lawhawk

That's the thing with me. I saw the Grand Canyon in 20 minutes... I love the grandeur at 70 mph... Ain't gotta stop... my wife neither. Just seeing it is cool for us. Ain't gotta dig in.

298 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:36:45am

re: #294 oaktree

I was actually thinking of doing a loop from Calgary, so that we could hit Jasper, Banff, and Glacier. That would be one long drive though.

299 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:36:59am

We got one of these for my son when he was young. It was just one of those, "Oh, this might be a good idea" purchases.

The kid thought it was great. It has been a really good way to help us plan our trips efficiently and a cool record of where we've been.

They are designed for kids, really, but when he moves out and takes his with him, hubby and I are going to get our own!

300 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:38:23am

Someone has the christmas spirit:

Donor pays off layaway debt for shoppers at Davenport Kmart
[Link: www.wqad.com...]

DAVENPORT, Iowa—
An act of kindness is making the holidays a little brighter for some lucky Quad Citians.

An anonymous donor has paid off the layaways for four people.

We're told the person who did this looked for recipients with kids and decided to fill their Christmas stocking by taking the load of layaway off them.

We spoke with one of the lucky shoppers.

"I was shocked," said Katie Risdal, who's new to the area and got a warm introduction to the Quad Cities when someone, who doesn't want their identity revealed, paid her layaway debt off at the K-mart on Brady Street in Davenport.
...
It's one of several layaway payoffs that have happened across the country, in places like Grand Rapids and Anaheim, California.

Once one person did it, others followed suit.

"I've been in this store 11 years and I've never seen anything like this," said Amie Stone, the store's manager, who also says this latest act of kindness has inspired her and the store's staff to give back.

"We were hoping it would encourage more shoppers to do the same," said Stone.

301 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:38:30am

re: #297 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We couldn't do that even if we tried. We spent 4 days at Grand Canyon, drove to both rims, and took a couple of rim-side hikes. Now, with the digital cameras, we'd probably shoot 2k photos at the Grand Canyon alone (gotta wait for the golden light and dramatic lighting of course).

302 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:39:37am

re: #300 RogueOne

Someone has the christmas spirit:

Donor pays off layaway debt for shoppers at Davenport Kmart
[Link: www.wqad.com...]

WHAT a great idea!

303 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:40:29am

re: #302 ggt

It is an awfully nice gesture. I guess sometimes people are ok.

304 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:40:35am

re: #296 oaktree

Do you do all the driving, or switch off?

It's not a "manly" thing, I drive 70 thousand miles a year. I drive all of the time when we're together, unless the drive is too short to justify adjusting the seats (she's over a foot shorter than me). I always feel like I'm going to fall out of the car when I'm riding, whoever's driving.

So, we'd never switch off.

305 iossarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:42:35am

re: #300 RogueOne

Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

A very Christian attitude.

306 RogueOne  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:43:44am

re: #297 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's the thing with me. I saw the Grand Canyon in 20 minutes... I love the grandeur at 70 mph... Ain't gotta stop... my wife neither. Just seeing it is cool for us. Ain't gotta dig in.

I'm with Lawhawk. I couldn't pass up an opportunity to take a nice hike. I spent quite a few weekends in that park.

307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:46:33am

re: #306 RogueOne

I'm with Lawhawk. I couldn't pass up an opportunity to take a nice hike. I spent quite a few weekends in that park.

That's where you are wrong.

A hike? Get out of the car? OUTSIDE?

The reason why man has spent thousands of years trying to perfect inside? Outside.

308 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:48:23am

re: #304 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's not a "manly" thing, I drive 70 thousand miles a year. I drive all of the time when we're together, unless the drive is too short to justify adjusting the seats (she's over a foot shorter than me). I always feel like I'm going to fall out of the car when I'm riding, whoever's driving.

So, we'd never switch off.

I've come to understand it's a "salesman" thing. They all want to drive :)

309 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:49:03am

re: #307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's where you are wrong.

A hike? Get out of the car? OUTSIDE?

The reason why man has spent thousands of years trying to perfect inside? Outside.

I never seem to have the right shoes . . . .

:)

310 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:49:47am

re: #304 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's not a "manly" thing, I drive 70 thousand miles a year. I drive all of the time when we're together, unless the drive is too short to justify adjusting the seats (she's over a foot shorter than me). I always feel like I'm going to fall out of the car when I'm riding, whoever's driving.

So, we'd never switch off.

My father was like that on family trips, though my mother drove short shifts on some of the longer day drives (e.g. crossing the Great Flatness).

Doing a drive from Pittsburgh - Edmonton (and back via northern NY state) my mother and I shifted off every hour or two. My brother and I did the same on a couple of drives, one from central Oregon to northern Colorado.

Per not being a good passenger my sister-in-law is like that. Unless she is driving any sort of curvy road travel makes her carsick. Unfortunately for me being in the passenger seat when she drives makes me fear for my life.

311 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:50:28am

re: #307 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It sure is damp in here. There are bugs, and oh, hell; A bat just shit on me. Floor's dirty. Shit! Spiderweb in the face... pfft pfft. But? At least I'm not out there.
-First caveman

312 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:50:53am

re: #309 ggt

I never seem to have the right shoes . . .

:)

Go barefoot!
(yes, yes, I know. HERESY!)

313 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:52:19am

re: #310 oaktree

I do the driving on our trips. Mrs. Lawhawk admits that she couldn't enjoy trips if she was driving because she'd be unable to concentrate on the scenery and the road at the same time.

Works for me, since I love driving.

314 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:53:03am

re: #311 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It sure is damp in here. There are bugs, and oh, hell; A bat just shit on me. Floor's dirty. Shit! Spiderweb in the face... pfft pfft. But? At least I'm not out there.
-First caveman

How breakfast was discovered

Two cavemen sitting side by side, looking at a chicken

"You know what, I think I'm going to eat the next thing that comes out of that things body! "

315 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:54:39am

re: #314 sattv4u2

How breakfast was discovered

Two cavemen sitting side by side, looking at a chicken

"You know what, I think I'm going to eat the next thing that comes out of that things body! "

I'm gonna squeeze that thing hanging off that hairy animal over there and drink whatever comes out of it.

316 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:55:05am

re: #315 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm gonna squeeze that thing hanging off that hairy animal over there and drink whatever comes out of it.

ewwwwwww!

317 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:55:39am

re: #315 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm gonna squeeze that thing hanging off that hairy animal over there and drink whatever comes out of it.

I dare you to break open that rock-like thing and eat the insides raw!

318 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:55:58am

re: #313 lawhawk

I do the driving on our trips. Mrs. Lawhawk admits that she couldn't enjoy trips if she was driving because she'd be unable to concentrate on the scenery and the road at the same time.

Works for me, since I love driving.

I used to love driving, but I've been putting on ~65,000 Km/yr since 1995 and I'm getting tired of it. When we go on a trip I still drive because I feel really uncomfortable being a passenger, no matter who drives.

319 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:57:10am

re: #315 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm gonna squeeze that thing hanging off that hairy animal over there and drink whatever comes out of it.

First man to drink milk from a goat must have really been in love.

320 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:58:31am

re: #315 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm gonna squeeze that thing hanging off that hairy animal over there and drink whatever comes out of it.

"Something just crawled out of the ocean with big claws walking towards me sideways. I have an idea,,, someone melt some butter!!"

321 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:58:41am

Just finished episode 33 of Breaking Bad on Netflix.

Now what?

322 iossarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:59:18am

re: #321 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just finished episode 33 of Breaking Bad on Netflix.

Now what?

Episode 34?

/

323 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:59:34am

re: #321 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Have you watched The Good Guys yet? Or Life on Mars?

324 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 7:59:51am

re: #318 b_sharp

I used to love driving, but I've been putting on ~65,000 Km/yr since 1995 and I'm getting tired of it. When we go on a trip I still drive because I feel really uncomfortable being a passenger, no matter who drives.

I do a lot of 5-6 hour solo drives. For longer drives having a passenger along for conversation, navigation, and refreshment fetching makes the time go quicker and the trip less exhausting. Switching off the driving once or twice helps with this as well. Not to mention the opportunity for driving other model cars now and then. (My only experience with a Prius came from one of these trips.)

325 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:00:03am

re: #320 sattv4u2

"Something just crawled out of the ocean with big claws walking towards me sideways. I have an idea,,, someone melt some butter!!"

Yeah, that one I don't get.

Sea Insects. --*shiver*

326 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:02:11am

re: #303 RogueOne

It is an awfully nice gesture. I guess sometimes people are ok.

Yeah, just when you are ready to throw-in-the-towel on human beings, one does something to redeem the species.

:)

327 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:03:08am

re: #320 sattv4u2

"Something just crawled out of the ocean with big claws walking towards me sideways. I have an idea,,, someone melt some butter!!"

Holy cow there's a lobster loose, He's vengeful! Quickly, cover yourselves in butter. Carry lemons just in case. You have to squirt him and so forth to repel him! There's gonna be a tragedy! ...

328 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:05:45am

re: #320 sattv4u2

"Something just crawled out of the ocean with big claws walking towards me sideways. I have an idea,,, someone melt some butter!!"

How did they figure out that the only correct way to cook it is while alive?

329 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:07:30am

re: #328 Alouette

How did they figure out that the only correct way to cook it is while alive?

Ever walk up on one at the beach thats been dead awhile???

330 Lidane  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:08:19am

Is Ludwig still around? I'm sure he'd have something to say about this:

21st Century Scopes Monkey Trial: Ed Markey And Jim Inhofe To ‘Debate’ Climate Science

331 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:09:05am

Hamas is having a rally today celebrating its anniversary. That means the usual pics of militarized terrorist babies.
[Link: www.daylife.com...]
[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

[Link: www.daylife.com...]

332 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:09:55am

re: #323 Obdicut

Have you watched The Good Guys yet? Or Life on Mars?

Wut?

No, don't answer that. I don't need another addiction.

333 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:10:05am

re: #328 Alouette

How did they figure out that the only correct way to cook it is while alive?

ewwwwwww!

I may not eat at all today.

334 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:11:14am

Warm up the bunker busters!

'Iran may soon start nuclear work in new underground facility'

Diplomatic sources say that Iranian experts have carried out necessary preparations at Fordow near holy city of Qom, paving way for higher-grade uranium enrichment at the site on a former military base.

335 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:11:32am

re: #328 Alouette

How did they figure out that the only correct way to cook it is while alive?

Neolithic Chef! Though I'm not sure what the proper title of the Chairman was at the time, and whether or not he had his personal sound effects yet.

"Oooo, Thog use pressure cooker by pounding on cooking meat with #3 rock."

336 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:11:45am

re: #333 ggt

ewww!

I may not eat at all today.

LFG... Better than Weight Watchers.

337 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:12:14am

re: #324 oaktree

I do a lot of 5-6 hour solo drives. For longer drives having a passenger along for conversation, navigation, and refreshment fetching makes the time go quicker and the trip less exhausting. Switching off the driving once or twice helps with this as well. Not to mention the opportunity for driving other model cars now and then. (My only experience with a Prius came from one of these trips.)

I have to change car every two years, just because I wear the last one out (horrible roads)

338 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:13:26am

re: #332 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wut?

No, don't answer that. I don't need another addiction.

Good news, Good Guys got cancelled after one season despite being AWESOMELY AWESOME.

And Life On Mars has an actual plot arc and also ends. And is also great.

Watch them both.

339 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:13:54am

re: #331 Killgore Trout

That means the usual pics of militarized terrorist freedom fighting babies.

now now,, lets not judge!!

340 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:13:55am

re: #332 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You could watch Louie
Just 2 seasons of about 8 episodes each. It won't take over your life but it's a really good series.

341 Lidane  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:14:40am

LOL GOP. You might just get your Not Romney, but at what cost?

NBC/WSJ: Gingrich At 40% With GOP, But Would Be Crushed By Obama

In the most pronounced contrast between former House Speaker Newt Gingrich’s position within the Republican primary contest and his standing in a matchup against President Obama, Gingrich has taken a commanding lead in a new national poll from NBC News and the Wall Street Journal. Newt gets 40 percent of the GOP vote nationally, the highest total for any candidate in the past few months. He’s currently 17 points above his main competitor, former Mass. Gov. Mitt Romney.

But the data also shows that Gingrich is a much weaker candidate against President Obama nationally. While Romney is only bested by the President by two points within the poll, Gingrich is crushed 51 - 40, showing the expansive disconnect between the GOP voters’ desire to have a non-Romney candidate and the chances that candidate has in the general election.

342 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:14:54am

re: #339 sattv4u2

That means the usual pics of militarized terrorist freedom fighting babies.

now now,, lets not judge!!

I'm sure they're all plants from AIPAC anyways.

343 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:15:29am

My Dear Ole' Dad was a mechanical engineer with one of the Big Three automakers. Back in the day, employees could opt for the the company lease plan. New model car, insurance, maintenance all for one low monthly cost.

I thought everyone got a new car every year. I was in junior high before I realized what a big deal it was for most people.

Now, I keep my cars until they die.

344 Lidane  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:16:50am

re: #340 Killgore Trout

You could watch Louie
Just 2 seasons of about 8 episodes each. It won't take over your life but it's a really good series.

Louie is awesome. Love that show.

Also, if you want something that was really good but got unfairly cancelled so there aren't many episodes, go with Better Off Ted. That was hilarious.

345 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:16:58am

re: #338 Obdicut

Good news, Good Guys got cancelled after one season despite being AWESOMELY AWESOME.

And Life On Mars has an actual plot arc and also ends. And is also great.

Watch them both.

Are you talking about the American version or the British version. I watched Life on Mars from the UK and loved it. Never bothered with the American version because I just assumed they'd dumb it down like they did with The Office.

346 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:17:26am

re: #343 ggt

My Dear Ole' Dad was a mechanical engineer with one of the Big Three automakers. Back in the day, employees could opt for the the company lease plan. New model car, insurance, maintenance all for one low monthly cost.

I thought everyone got a new car every year. I was in junior high before I realized what a big deal it was for most people.

Now, I keep my cars until they die.

What do you mean back in the day?

I am looking at an A-Plan lease right now since Zedushka's car perished.

347 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:17:48am

re: #343 ggt

My Dear Ole' Dad was a mechanical engineer with one of the Big Three automakers. Back in the day, employees could opt for the the company lease plan. New model car, insurance, maintenance all for one low monthly cost.

I thought everyone got a new car every year. I was in junior high before I realized what a big deal it was for most people.

Now, I keep my cars until they die.

I do the same with my Dear Ole' Dad!!!

348 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:17:56am

re: #334 Killgore Trout

The Iranians are saying that they'll further secure their enrichment facilities, including moving them to more secure locations.

That's a pretty telling statement IMO. That's an admission that they know that the US and/or Israel knows the whereabouts of their nuclear infrastructure, and that either/both has the means to disrupt or take out those facilities with existing weapons systems.

It's possible that the RQ-170 incident may have revealed that the US has technical sophistication far beyond anything the Iranians expected, and that it might have gathered information sufficient to target the Iranian nuclear facilities (though I think the real mission for the RQ-170, including the one that crashed into Iranian territory was plotting targets for interdicting border trades between Iran and Afghanistan supplying the Taliban as well as keeping tabs on Iranian military actions generally).

So, while the loss of the RQ-170 in Iranian hands was a generally bad thing, it might lead Iran to make some unforced errors of its own - like moving its nuclear infrastructure, which is pretty tough to do under optimal conditions. It's not like you can hide building bunkers and moving equipment all that easily (that's what JSTARS is for).

349 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:17:58am

re: #340 Killgore Trout

You could watch Louie
Just 2 seasons of about 8 episodes each. It won't take over your life but it's a really good series.

SEEN IT! (loved it)

350 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:18:39am

re: #346 Alouette

What do you mean back in the day?

I am looking at an A-Plan lease right now since Zedushka's car perished.

Tell me more about A-Plan . . .

351 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:19:12am

re: #347 sattv4u2

I do the same with my Dear Ole' Dad!!!

Your Dad's a car?

352 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:19:26am

re: #350 ggt

Tell me more about A-Plan . . .

You try that just before you go to B Plan!!

353 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:19:31am

re: #330 Lidane

Is Ludwig still around? I'm sure he'd have something to say about this:

21st Century Scopes Monkey Trial: Ed Markey And Jim Inhofe To ‘Debate’ Climate Science

When is the rabid right (that includes no one here, all of whom are well vaccinated against lunacy) going to understand that the truth of science is not determined by non-scientist debate? The truth (validity) of a science is determined by our physical universe and the validity of our understanding is determined by testing under a controlled environment with logical expectations.

This requires a major d'oh.

354 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:19:49am

re: #351 ggt

Your Dad's a car?

No,, dad himself!!!!

355 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:19:56am

re: #352 sattv4u2

You try that just before you go to B Plan!!

I knew that.

356 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:20:15am

re: #355 ggt

I knew that.

Then why did you ask!?!?!
/

357 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:21:07am

re: #334 Killgore Trout

Warm up the bunker busters!

'Iran may soon start nuclear work in new underground facility'

Don't be too worried, I'm sure some religious decision will cause a major 'accident' during development.

358 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:21:20am

re: #353 b_sharp

When is the rabid right (that includes no one here, all of whom are well vaccinated against lunacy

Not according to some!

(just sayin!!)

359 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:22:10am

re: #354 sattv4u2

No,, dad himself!!!

Then why didn't you say that?
:)

360 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:22:19am

re: #348 lawhawk
Good points.

So, while the loss of the RQ-170 in Iranian hands was a generally bad thing, it might lead Iran to make some unforced errors of its own - like moving its nuclear infrastructure, which is pretty tough to do under optimal conditions. It's not like you can hide building bunkers and moving equipment all that easily (that's what JSTARS is for).

There was another mysterious factory explosion in Southern Iran yesterday. The Iranians surely understand that we can reach out and touch them at will. It really looks like this is all going to come to a head within the next year if not sooner.

361 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:22:45am

OK, I have to be productive.

Have a great day all!

362 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:24:16am

Hot Air keeps sending me links to their Republican ballot polls. I'm pretty sure my account there has closed after the unpleasant incident.

363 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:25:23am

That's shocking.

There is an Iron Chef Australia. And no "Battle Vegemite" or "Battle Witchetty Grub" yet. I am disappointed.

:(

Maybe Alton Brown will beat them to it for Iron Chef America. I want to see Bobby Flay given a bowl of beetle grubs to cook with. (And we know that Morimoto would make beetle grub sushi.)

364 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:26:09am

re: #360 Killgore Trout

Good points.


There was another mysterious factory explosion in Southern Iran yesterday. The Iranians surely understand that we can reach out and touch them at will. It really looks like this is all going to come to a head within the next year if not sooner.

Milk factory incidents of course. From having unexploded cows.

365 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:26:36am

re: #345 Killgore Trout

Are you talking about the American version or the British version. I watched Life on Mars from the UK and loved it. Never bothered with the American version because I just assumed they'd dumb it down like they did with The Office.

No, the US version is also great and well-acted. I can't find the UK version anywhere online to watch.

366 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:26:46am

re: #358 sattv4u2

When is the rabid right (that includes no one here, all of whom are well vaccinated against lunacy

Not according to some!

(just sayin!!)

That's their tough nut. I'm the lefty responsible for determining right wing rabidity.

I'm also a registered and licensed neologist.

367 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:28:09am

HOLY SCHNIEKEIS

Just got word,, one of my co-workers was in a motorcycle accident last night on his way home from work

2 broken ankles (one they've called "shattered")

damn!

368 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:29:20am

re: #366 b_sharp

That's their tough nut. I'm the lefty responsible for determining right wing rabidity.

I'm also a registered and licensed neologist.

Great Doc,,,so,, could you look at this lump on my hand!

369 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:29:32am

re: #366 b_sharp

That's their tough nut. I'm the lefty responsible for determining right wing rabidity.

I'm also a registered and licensed neologist.

I thought the degree of rabidity was tattooed on the back of their neck.

370 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:30:10am

re: #364 oaktree

Milk factory incidents of course. From having unexploded cows.

Lighting cow farts.

371 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:30:31am

re: #367 sattv4u2

HOLY SCHNIEKEIS

Just got word,, one of my co-workers was in a motorcycle accident last night on his way home from work

2 broken ankles (one they've called "shattered")

damn!

Wholly crapzilla badman!

Just goes to show it's a bad idea to get into a motorcycle accident.

Seriously tho, I feel for people who experience broken bones. It does hurt a tad.

372 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:30:52am

re: #370 Alouette

Lighting cow farts.

Who run Bartertown?

;)

373 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:32:34am

re: #368 sattv4u2

Great Doc,,,so,, could you look at this lump on my hand!

That's a large callus.
Instead of biting yourself on the hand when you get frustrated, perhaps you just need to drink more.

The callus on your palm is from a totally different habit.

374 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:32:57am

re: #367 sattv4u2
Damn ...been there done that!
He has a long road ahead!!
Hope he has a full recovery...and really good surgeons(s)!!

375 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:33:39am

re: #373 b_sharp

That's a large callus.
Instead of biting yourself on the hand when you get frustrated, perhaps you just need to drink more.

The callus on your palm is from a totally different habit.

Constant facepalms from the US political and cultural scene would be my guess...
;)

376 BARACK THE VOTE  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:34:47am

Damn you gchat! DAMN YOOOOU!

Whew. Hello. :)

377 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:34:51am

re: #369 oaktree

I thought the degree of rabidity was tattooed on the back of their neck.

Urban myth.

You just have to measure the amount of shit leaving the mouth. Loons of any stripe have a 100% shit content.

378 Lidane  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:35:03am

Speaking of Louis C.K., his latest experiment worked like a charm:

[Link: buy.louisck.net...]

The show went on sale at noon on Saturday, December 10th. 12 hours later, we had over 50,000 purchases and had earned $250,000, breaking even on the cost of production and website. As of Today, we've sold over 110,000 copies for a total of over $500,000. Minus some money for PayPal charges etc, I have a profit around $200,000 (after taxes $75.58). This is less than I would have been paid by a large company to simply perform the show and let them sell it to you, but they would have charged you about $20 for the video. They would have given you an encrypted and regionally restricted video of limited value, and they would have owned your private information for their own use. They would have withheld international availability indefinitely. This way, you only paid $5, you can use the video any way you want, and you can watch it in Dublin, whatever the city is in Belgium, or Dubai. I got paid nice, and I still own the video (as do you). You never have to join anything, and you never have to hear from us again.

379 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:37:03am

Hey Ice, I saw you sneaking up on us.

380 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:38:27am

BBIAB

381 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:38:40am

re: #374 reloadingisnotahobby

Damn ...been there done that!
He has a long road ahead!!
Hope he has a full recovery...and really good surgeons(s)!!

Yeah ,, I know,,, and we're right in the middle of three HUGE all-hands-on-deck projects

My 12 hour days are about to turn into 14-16, most likely!

382 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:45:29am

re: #378 Lidane

Speaking of Louis C.K., his latest experiment worked like a charm:

[Link: buy.louisck.net...]

I really hope that works out for him. It could have big implications how musicians and comedians make a living in the future. I'd love to see the ticket agencies and big promoters marginalized.

384 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:55:40am

re: #381 sattv4u2

Yeah ,, I know,,, and we're right in the middle of three HUGE all-hands-on-deck projects

My 12 hour days are about to turn into 14-16, most likely!

Buck up man, you've got a big sleep coming up sometime in the future.

385 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:55:58am

re: #383 NJDhockeyfan

NASA Builds Six-Foot Crossbow to Harpoon Comets

Chief engineer Wile E Coyote!

386 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:56:23am

re: #384 b_sharp

Buck up man, you've got a big sleep coming up sometime in the future.

Yeah ,, but this might expedite the process!!

387 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 8:57:29am

re: #383 NJDhockeyfan

NASA Builds Six-Foot Crossbow to Harpoon Comets

First step towards whalers on the moon.

:D

388 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:00:49am

I got an unusual e-mail today. It is sitting in my Spam section. It says it is from Mrs. Safia Farkash Gaddafi. I am not opening this e-mail. Has anyone else received something like this?

389 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:01:40am

re: #386 sattv4u2

Yeah ,, but this might expedite the process!!

I certainly hope not. I don't want to be the only lizard here with a warped sense of humour.

390 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:02:33am

re: #388 PhillyPretzel

I got an unusual e-mail today. It is sitting in my Spam section. It says it is from Mrs. Safia Farkash Gaddafi. I am not opening this e-mail. Has anyone else received something like this?

I'll bet she wants to send you money.
She's such a sweet lady.

391 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:02:49am

re: #388 PhillyPretzel

I got an unusual e-mail today. It is sitting in my Spam section. It says it is from Mrs. Safia Farkash Gaddafi. I am not opening this e-mail. Has anyone else received something like this?

Absolutly!

I just sent her all my bank account and credit card numbers and passwords

By this time next month, she'll be transferring 11ty gabillion dollars (US) into my accounts!!

392 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:03:12am

re: #389 b_sharp

I certainly hope not. I don't want to be the only lizard here with a warped sense of humour.

;)

393 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:03:49am

re: #388 PhillyPretzel

I got an unusual e-mail today. It is sitting in my Spam section. It says it is from Mrs. Safia Farkash Gaddafi. I am not opening this e-mail. Has anyone else received something like this?

I once got an email from Suha Arafat.

394 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:04:01am

re: #383 NJDhockeyfan

NASA Builds Six-Foot Crossbow to Harpoon Comets

My first thought was "I wonder if it wears steel-toed boots".

395 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:04:40am

re: #390 b_sharp

re: #391 sattv4u2

Very Funny. I am not sending anyone anything. I just wanted to know if anyhone else got this silly e-mail.

396 Alexzander  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:05:06am

Obama is speaking on the telly about leaving Iraq...

397 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:06:18am

Chinese man arrested for hiring wedding strippers

Chinese police have arrested a man who hired two strippers to perform at his son's wedding after the performance was mobbed by villagers, a newspaper reported on Wednesday.

Zhang Cheng, from Xuzhou in eastern Jiangsu province, had originally wanted a band to play at the nuptials, but was then advised he could get performers whose show would have "special features," the Global Times said.

"After watching the show, Zhang decided it would be appropriate for his son's wedding and requested two strippers for the event," it added. "...Barely five minutes had passed before hundreds of villagers in the conservative community were swarming to the venue, trying to catch a glimpse."

Zhang was arrested the next day, the newspaper reported, though it did not say on what charge.

398 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:06:51am

re: #393 Alouette

Heh.

399 Alexzander  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:08:24am

re: #382 Killgore Trout

I really hope that works out for him. It could have big implications how musicians and comedians make a living in the future. I'd love to see the ticket agencies and big promoters marginalized.

I bought the special in part to support the idea of taking out the middle man and forgoing DRM.

400 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:10:09am

Breaking:

Suspicious package at Credit Suisse in New York

Parts of the Credit Suisse headquarters in New York City were evacuated on Wednesday due to a suspicious package, police said.

"We have a report of a suspicious package in the building so we're investigating. We are evacuating at least part of (the building)," a police spokesman said.

Last week, an envelope containing explosives was sent to the head of Deutsche Bank Josef Ackermann in Frankfurt but it was intercepted before it reached him.

401 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:10:44am

re: #398 lawhawk
Do you think I should send the spam to that website? I opened it up and did not touch the two links in it. I think I might send it to snopes.com.

402 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:12:42am

re: #400 NJDhockeyfan

Breaking:

Suspicious package at Credit Suisse in New York

Hopefully a false alarm but I think we're going to be seeing more of this in the future.

403 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:14:22am

re: #402 Killgore Trout

Hopefully a false alarm but I think we're going to be seeing more of this in the future.

WSJ reports two packages.

NEW YORK — The New York Police Department says it is responding to a report of two suspicious packages in the mailroom at offices of Credit Suisse bank.

They were deemed suspicious after being X-rayed.

The offices are located on Madison Avenue in Manhattan.

404 garhighway  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:14:49am

re: #19 jaunte

Anthony Terrell @AnthonyNBCNews:

Christine O'Donnell endorses Mitt Romney

I wonder if Newt paid her to do that.

405 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:16:11am

[Link: www.streetinsider.com...]

Credit Suisse (NYSE: CS) reportedly alerted NYPD about two suspicious packages, and evacuated the building at the advice of the police. Reuters is saying the threat is being treated as a copy of the attempted attack on Deutsche Bank's (NYSE: DB) HQ in Frankfurt last week.

406 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:18:11am

re: #403 NJDhockeyfan

WSJ reports two packages.

If they've been X-rayed without finding something conclusive, time for a colonoscopy.

407 Flounder  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:18:14am

re: #400 NJDhockeyfan

It's getting harder and harder to get rid of that holiday effing fruitcake!!

408 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:18:53am

re: #404 garhighway

I wonder if Newt paid her to do that.

Nuts.

409 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:19:48am

re: #407 Shropshire_Slasher

It's getting harder and harder to get rid of that holiday effing fruitcake!!

Maybe you should stop inserting bear bangers in them then.

410 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:22:22am

re: #405 Killgore Trout

[Link: www.streetinsider.com...]

Anarchists again?

411 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:23:29am

re: #407 Shropshire_Slasher
Hmm fruitcake. How about using it to feed the wild critters in your area? Or a door stop? Or cutting it up into small round pieces and using it to scare off intruders? / A little bit of holiday sarcasm.

412 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:25:02am

re: #411 PhillyPretzel

Think back to a time and place when the only fresh fruits people got in the winter months were the candied ones baked into a fruitcake.

413 PhillyPretzel  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:26:45am

re: #412 ralphieboy
I know. That is why I marked the response as sarcasm. :)

414 kirkspencer  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:27:31am

re: #411 PhillyPretzel

Hmm fruitcake. How about using it to feed the wild critters in your area? Or a door stop? Or cutting it up into small round pieces and using it to scare off intruders? / A little bit of holiday sarcasm.

The funny thing is that I like a good fruitcake.

Which is a travelcake using both sugar and alcohol preservation.

415 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:32:18am

re: #410 NJDhockeyfan

Anarchists again?

I think they prefer the term "Peaceful activists".

416 Flounder  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:32:38am

re: #412 ralphieboy
A few of my friends at work have been busy canning venison, cabbage, etc. for the winter. My parents always had a bushel of apples in the basement for applesauce.

417 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:32:49am

re: #414 kirkspencer

The funny thing is that I like a good fruitcake.

Which is a travelcake using both sugar and alcohol preservation.

Iron Chef America did a special "Battle Fruitcake" a week or two ago.

Two Iron Chefs against each other using "Free Range" fruitcakes made by Alton Brown. An episode that was both amusing and annoying at the same time.

418 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:34:40am

re: #415 Killgore Trout

I think they prefer the term "Peaceful activists".

Yes, they do

Image: protest02.jpg

419 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:35:39am

False alarm: No threat from package at Credit Suisse in New York

420 Alexzander  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:39:10am

re: #415 Killgore Trout

I think they prefer the term "Peaceful activists".

Not the contemporary inssurectionary culture.
See for example, Peter Gelderloos' modern anarchist classic, How Nonviolence Protects the State.

Blanket nonviolence is more a squishy liberal/hippy orientation.

421 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:42:20am

Islamic Extremists Call for Lesbian’s Death in Belgium

An Islamist group called for a Muslim lesbian author to be killed and invaded a discussion on Islam in Amsterdam last week.

A December 8 debate, which included the Canadian Muslim lesbian author Irshad Manji and MP Tofik Dibi on a panel, was disrupted when extremists from the group Sharia4Belgium stormed the event, held at the De Balie theater in Amsterdam. The mob threw eggs and called for Manji’s neck to be broken.

The group of about 20 men and boys arrived halfway through the evening, chanted slogans and pelted the audience with eggs. A police mobile unit had to be called to eject the rioters, and two Belgian men aged 19 and 22 were arrested.

The people who disrupted the debate were members of the Belgian group Sharia4Belgium, an offshoot of Sharia4Holland. Irshad Manji has experienced death threats for several years since her outspoken attack on traditional Islam in her book The Trouble with Islam Today.

422 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:54:38am

re: #421 NJDhockeyfan

I thought Dinner Jacket said there are no homosexuals in Islam ,,,, or is that just Iranian Islams !?!?!

///

423 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:55:45am

Did anybody notice that the diffused light made its way ahead of the main beam of light?

424 albusteve  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:57:46am

re: #423 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Did anybody notice that the diffused light made its way ahead of the main beam of light?

I have not seen the light

425 Inconsequential Consequence  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 9:58:26am

re: #422 sattv4u2

I thought Dinner Jacket said there are no homosexuals in Islam ,,, or is that just Iranian Islams !?!?!

///

I'manutjob just meant Iran. I guess Iran is genetically pure.

426 albusteve  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:01:05am

California tech company to move most of its business, 135 jobs to Austin

unstoppable....CA continues to bleed business and jobs....probably some excuse that's over my head....Sears and the Mercantile are considering leaving Illinois....must be some common link?


[Link: www.statesman.com...]

427 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:02:28am

re: #426 albusteve

California tech company to move most of its business, 135 jobs to Austin

unstoppable...CA continues to bleed business and jobs...probably some excuse that's over my head...Sears and the Mercantile are considering leaving Illinois...must be some common link?

[Link: www.statesman.com...]

"Mine Eyes Have Seen The Glory Of The Coming Of The Jobs,,,"

428 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:05:19am

re: #427 sattv4u2

Steve [Jobs] left. Sorry.

429 albusteve  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:05:35am

re: #427 sattv4u2

"Mine Eyes Have Seen The Glory Of The Coming Of The Jobs,,,"

I blame union janitors

430 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:08:29am

re: #428 lawhawk

Steve [Jobs] left. Sorry.

"he didn't die,, he just went home"

(channeling Tommy Lee Jones in Men In Black)

431 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:11:47am

re: #420 Alexzander

Not the contemporary inssurectionary culture.
See for example, Peter Gelderloos' modern anarchist classic, How Nonviolence Protects the State.

Blanket nonviolence is more a squishy liberal/hippy orientation.

The lefties still give the non violence thing lip service but they've pretty much given up on the concept. It takes discipline and restraint, too much work. I also think the alliance between lefties and anarchists has had an effect.

432 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:15:36am

re: #427 sattv4u2

"Mine Eyes Have Seen The Glory Of The Coming Of The Jobs,,,"

It is an expansion, not a shutdown of the CA plant. According to the press release by the company, there will be no change in the headcount of employees in CA, it is an expansion. They want to get closer to some of the conductor business that are already in the Austin area.

Company press release

433 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:15:55am

re: #420 Alexzander

Not the contemporary inssurectionary culture.
See for example, Peter Gelderloos' modern anarchist classic, How Nonviolence Protects the State.

Blanket nonviolence is more a squishy liberal/hippy orientation.

I see Gelderloos's book is favorably reviewed by Ward Churchill, author of Pacifism as Pathology.

I think there is more to a philosophy of non-violent direct action than "a squishy liberal/hippy orientation", although you may have dodged the finer points by saying "blanket nonviolence". Strategies and tactics need to be constantly scrutinized and updated, but I don't think nonviolence needs to be thrown out.

434 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:16:43am

re: #431 Killgore Trout

The lefties still give the non violence thing lip service but they've pretty much given up on the concept.

Oh, those lefties. Whatever will they do next?

I suppose, since you're trolling, it's useless to ask you who you mean by 'the lefties'?

435 Alexzander  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:17:08am

re: #431 Killgore Trout

The lefties still give the non violence thing lip service but they've pretty much given up on the concept. It takes discipline and restraint, too much work. I also think the alliance between lefties and anarchists has had an effect.

Not to over simplify but I see two kinds of leftists espousing nonviolence; the embarrassingly naive and the honorably committed.
Personally, I think we are more often than not caught in a situation where all of the options result in some "violence" whether it be to a person or object directly or indirectly. It is usually a matter of "harm reduction" and different people calculate this differently based on different values.

436 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:18:28am

re: #432 RayFerd

You do know I didn't post the story, right

And you do know that I was making a joke by combining the posters previous (#424) post with that one,, right????

437 Alexzander  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:19:36am

re: #433 wrenchwench

I see Gelderloos's book is favorably reviewed by Ward Churchill, author of Pacifism as Pathology.

I think there is more to a philosophy of non-violent direct action than "a squishy liberal/hippy orientation", although you may have dodged the finer points by saying "blanket nonviolence". Strategies and tactics need to be constantly scrutinized and updated, but I don't think nonviolence needs to be thrown out.

I'd say its a much better book that Churchill's personally and I actually recommend it as it is nothing if not thought provoking.
As I said above, I see things usually under a rubric of harm reduction, which sometimes looks like nonviolence and sometimes doesn't.
Anyway I just got off a graveyard shift and need to catch some sleep.
Later everyone.

438 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:20:30am

re: #436 sattv4u2

You do know I didn't post the story, right

And you do know that I was making a joke by combining the posters previous (#424) post with that one,, right???

Sure, you know I was just pointing out the facts, right? Sorry if it offended you.

439 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:20:31am

re: #435 Alexzander

Not to over simplify but I see two kinds of leftists espousing nonviolence; the embarrassingly naive and the honorably committed.

Heh, very well said.

440 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:20:48am

re: #435 Alexzander

One of the funny-but-not-funny things to come out of this is that many of the cases of 'resisting arrest' we've seen that have been used to justify force have been people sitting with their arms locked. This is what the kids at Davis were doing when they were pepper-sprayed.

But 'resisting arrest', as a phrase, calls to mind fighting with cops-- and I've seen people combine the two even here, in the supposed anti-idiocratic land.

"Why'd you hit him with your nightstick?"

"He was resisting arrest."

A straightforward statement-- but put in the context of the person resisting doing so without aggression, it has an entirely different meaning.

441 lawhawk  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:21:02am

CDC says that as a result of the HCR, 2.5 million more Americans (in age cohort 19-25) now have insurance. That's mostly the result of the change that required insurers to keep dependent kids on their parents insurance until age 26.

Overall, that seems to be a pretty good measure. However, the report takes no position on whether the actual health of those people have improved, or the costs associated with the change; the change didn't cost the government anything, but costs associated with the change were passed on by insurers to the insureds in the form of higher premiums spread across the ratepayer base.

442 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:21:33am

re: #438 RayFerd

Sure, you know I was just pointing out the facts, right? Sorry if it offended you.

Didn't offend at all

Just seemed as if your correction (for lack of a better word) seemed mis-aimed

443 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:22:18am

Update on the attack in Liege:

Belgian police have found the body of a woman at the home of the gunman who killed four people and injured 122 in an attack in the city of Liège.

Liège prosecutor Daniele Reynders said the body of a woman in her 40s had been discovered during a search of Nordine Amrani's property.

Reynders said Amrani, 33, died in Tuesday's attack in an apparent suicide, and was found with a number of grenades still on him.

"What killed him was a shot in the middle of his forehead," she said.

Two teenage boys aged 15 and 17, and a 75-year-old woman also died in the attack, while an 18-month-old toddler died on Tuesday evening in hospital, Liège police said. Several people remain in intensive care.

Beyond the dead and injured, Reynders said some 40 people had to be treated for psychological trauma.

It remains unclear what motivated the attack. Reynders said that after searches of Amrani's house terrorism could be excluded as a driving force.

Amrani, who had spent time in jail for offences involving guns and drugs, had been called in for questioning by police in a sexual abuse case.

[...]

444 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:22:49am

re: #441 lawhawk

Overall, that seems to be a pretty good measure. However, the report takes no position on whether the actual health of those people have improved, or the costs associated with the change; the change didn't cost the government anything, but costs associated with the change were passed on by insurers to the insureds in the form of higher premiums spread across the ratepayer base.

It didn't take into account the savings passed along by the change, either.

And given that insurance companies have raised their rates continuously for twenty years, without it keeping pace with actual medical costs or anything else, why do you assume that the costs were passed along, rather than that the insurance companies raised rates as they do every single year?

445 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:24:28am

re: #443 wrenchwench

"What killed him was a shot in the middle of his forehead,"

Self inflicted I assume, as the report yesterday stated he died NOT due to police action

AND ,,, does it say what relationship the woman found dead on his property had to him?

446 Obdicut  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:26:12am

Organizations endorsing Ron Paul


(excerpt)


Babies for a Tax-Free America
The Powers Boothe Truther Troupe
Citizens for the Criminalization of Skateboarding
The Cat Hoarder Legal Defense Fund
Society for the Acceptance of Public Erections
The Wesley Snipes Foundation for Ill-Advised Tax Protest
The Rush Anti-Defamation League
Uncles for Open Borders
Death Row Inmates Against School Lunches
Citizens for the Advancement of Imaginary Medical Conditions
The Society of Female Sideburns
Big Game Hunters Against the Endangered Species List
The Megaphone Nuisance League
Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants
Swamp Loggers Against Net Neutrality
Coalition to Deregulate the Age of Consent
Nevada Whoremongers Guild
Brotherhood of Lone Nut Gunmen
South Park Fans for Equivocation
The Utah White Devils Motorcycle Club
North American Man-Gold Love Association
SoCal Objectivist Boardgamers Guild
Power Bottoms for Privatized Utilities
Rockapella
Free Market Diaper Enthusiasts
The Fringe Militia Friendship Network
Citizens for an FDA-Free America
Linux Admins Online Romance Club & Sysop Speed Dating Society
The American Absurdist League
The Caucasian Bow Tie Bloc
Lolicon Brothers for Fansub Freedom
The Free Dr. Moreau Movement

447 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:28:13am

re: #445 sattv4u2

"What killed him was a shot in the middle of his forehead,"

Self inflicted I assume, as the report yesterday stated he died NOT due to police action

AND ,,, does it say what relationship the woman found dead on his property had to him?

Yes, and no. See the link for (a lack of) details.

448 sattv4u2  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:28:32am

re: #446 Obdicut

32 organizations

Total membership,,, 35 people!!!

((I figure the Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants has 4)

/

449 wrenchwench  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 10:45:03am

re: #8 Charles

Wrenchwench is posting really great stuff tonight. Don't miss her featured Pages.

I just now saw this. Thanks. *blushing*

I'm gonna go fix some bikes now...

450 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 11:55:41am

re: #431 Killgore Trout

Just can't quit hating can you?

451 Ben G. Hazi  Wed, Dec 14, 2011 2:00:08pm

re: #351 ggt

Your Dad's a car?

I thought it was "My Mother, The Car"?

///


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