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1 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 10:22:02pm

As the sayin' goes, if it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all.

2 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 10:27:26pm

re: #1 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

As the sayin' goes, if it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all.

No shit...

3 freetoken  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 10:27:52pm
Destiny is a good thing to accept when it's going your way. When it isn't, don't call it destiny; call it injustice, treachery, or simple bad luck.

- Joseph Heller

4 freetoken  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 10:32:43pm
I think we consider too much the good luck of the early bird and not enough the bad luck of the early worm.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

5 austin_blue  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 10:44:31pm

Just for shits and grins, I'll toss this post from the last thread up here to be bashed from both sides:

Good night all! Good discussions tonight. The give and take of positions was thoughtful and by and large sane. This is what a discussion board should be. This place is so much more sane than when it was when I finally had the chance to get on board. I got absolutely hammered when I started posting as a rational liberal voice.

I'm no Moonbat, I'm more of a Skip Jackson Dem. (For the Newbies, check out the Wiki page). I don't post on any other political boards. I like it here. Sanity reigns. And thank you, Charles, for making it thus.

And I'm not ass-kissing. Two years ago there were long-time Lizards who were actively advocating the blatant racism we are seeing about the Cordoba Mosque. They have shuffled off.

If you disagree, let's have a discussion tomorrow. That's why this Board is important.

6 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 10:54:00pm

re: #5 austin_blue

It WAS a great discussion night. Very enjoyable.

7 boredtechindenver  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:05:57pm

Thanks to SFZ and Freetoken for listening to me ramble last night. and congrat TNGuitarist.

8 tnguitarist  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:08:51pm

re: #7 boredtechindenver

Thanks to SFZ and Freetoken for listening to me ramble last night. and congrat TNGuitarist.

Thank you. I didn't realize how thrilled I would be to be having a son until I heard the news.

9 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:14:22pm

Good night now!

10 laZardo  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:23:55pm

I once used Javier Bardem's Anton as my avatar on an art site.

True story bro.

11 Cineaste  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:28:42pm

You know, I've been thinking this evening (never a good idea).

The wing nuts are complaining that the Park 51 project is a "victory" mosque to celebrate Islam's conquering on 9/11 (to whit: see the video from AFA posted earlier by Charles). Well implicit in that statement is the belief that we were defeated on 9/11. I thought the line was that "these colors don't run" and that we were punched in the nose but we win because they couldn't tear us down. They could just tear down buildings made of metal but the fabric of our country remains.

When did the Republican Party (and let's admit it, it's mostly Republicans) and the wing nut fringe come to believe that we have been defeated?

12 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:37:41pm

Just so ye all know, I have progressed beyond the starting point of my magnum opus, to the extent that I may now reveal the title.

It shall be called "The Catacombs".

And ye lucky ones will be the first to read the first and the following cantos.

Rhyme scheme: variable. Heroes: terrible. Point of it all: ye decide.

Given the material for mockery given to me in this most fortunate of all unfortunate times, I expect to be busy until Death takes me or Gaia shakes me off.

Stay tuned.

13 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:45:33pm

re: #11 Cineaste

You know, I've been thinking this evening (never a good idea).

The wing nuts are complaining that the Park 51 project is a "victory" mosque to celebrate Islam's conquering on 9/11 (to whit: see the video from AFA posted earlier by Charles). Well implicit in that statement is the belief that we were defeated on 9/11. I thought the line was that "these colors don't run" and that we were punched in the nose but we win because they couldn't tear us down. They could just tear down buildings made of metal but the fabric of our country remains.

When did the Republican Party (and let's admit it, it's mostly Republicans) and the wing nut fringe come to believe that we have been defeated?

A lot of the hysterics about Islam that you see from some of these folks depends on Americans being as scared as possible. Hence, sharia is right around the corner, we're all gonna wind up wearing burqas and paying our jizya, we're doooooomed, unless we do something RIGHT NOW. And we will be justified in doing extreme and stupid things that are not in accordance with American values or law, because otherwise we're DOOOOMED.

If you suggest that the United States faces hostility from radical jihadist Islam from a position of strength--namely, we are a stable, democratic society, still rich and powerful beyond most empire's dreams of avarice, armed to the teeth, and allied with a number of similarly rich and strong countries, you just are not playing the game, and become a naive and complacent type.

I will repeat what I always say to such people. We kicked the ass of the Third Reich. We kicked the ass of the Japanese Empire. We even, albeit in a sort of sneaky, roundabout way, kicked the ass of the USSR. Al-fucking-Qaeda may be evil as hell, but in the league of people whose asses we have kicked, they ain't shit.

In addition, you've got these folks' obsession with the special Islam vocabulary and history. A Muslim leader never lies--that's 'taqqiyah', which is quite different from a lie told by a, say, Hindu or Presbyterian politician. And part of their grip on that history is that all of Islam is constantly engaged in a nonstop rush to conquest.

But yeah, anyone who says that New York is a conquered city is in waaaay too much of a rush to give away the silverware. New York is fine.

14 lostlakehiker  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:46:29pm
You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from.

When Winston Churchill was defeated in the election of 1945, his wife remarked to him that it might be a blessing in disguise. His reply: then it is very well disguised indeed.

re: #5 austin_blue

Just for shits and grins, I'll toss this post from the last thread up here to be bashed from both sides:

Good night all! Good discussions tonight. The give and take of positions was thoughtful and by and large sane. This is what a discussion board should be. This place is so much more sane than when it was when I finally had the chance to get on board. I got absolutely hammered when I started posting as a rational liberal voice.

I'm no Moonbat, I'm more of a Skip Jackson Dem. (For the Newbies, check out the Wiki page). I don't post on any other political boards. I like it here. Sanity reigns. And thank you, Charles, for making it thus.

And I'm not ass-kissing. Two years ago there were long-time Lizards who were actively advocating the blatant racism we are seeing about the Cordoba Mosque. They have shuffled off.

If you disagree, let's have a discussion tomorrow. That's why this Board is important.

Ah, but it's not so easy trying to be a rational conservative here these days. It's not good enough to recognize the reality of evolution, the reality of global warming, and the necessity of granting to all the freedoms that most conveniently would be granted just to one's own.

These days, Milton Friedman and Adam Smith are lumped with the KKK.

15 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:47:15pm

re: #14 lostlakehiker


These days, Milton Friedman and Adam Smith are lumped with the KKK.

By whom, exactly?

16 Cato the Elder  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:53:11pm

re: #15 SanFranciscoZionist

By whom, exactly?

Well, Milton Friedman was the little dickless shit who provided cover fire for Saint Ronald's attack upon the poor people of America, saying, among other loony things, that there is no unemployment or poverty in America.

When all you had to do was walk outside your door to see the opposite was the truth.

Fuck him and the Austrian pony he rode in on.

I said that.

17 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:54:13pm

re: #16 Cato the Elder

Well, Milton Friedman was the little dickless shit who provided cover fire for Saint Ronald's attack upon the poor people of America, saying, among other loony things, that there is no unemployment or poverty in America.

When all you had to do was walk outside your door to see the opposite was the truth.

Fuck him and the Austrian pony he rode in on.

I said that.

Well, OK, by Cato, for one.

Got anything to say about Adam Smith?

18 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:54:45pm

Hey, WUP!

19 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:55:17pm

re: #14 lostlakehiker


These days, Milton Friedman and Adam Smith are lumped with the KKK by crazy people who post on blogs and collect old newspapers and never leave the house

FTFY

20 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:57:00pm

re: #19 WindUpBird

FTFY

Is the sun up yet?

21 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Aug 11, 2010 11:57:41pm

re: #19 WindUpBird

I mean, not a fan of Friedman, but I'm pretty sure he's not out hanging black people from trees

22 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:01:26am

re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, OK, by Cato, for one.

Got anything to say about Adam Smith?

Yeah. If the Invisible Hand were real, I wouldn't have to jerk off anymore.

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:06:06am

re: #22 Cato the Elder

Yeah. If the Invisible Hand were real, I wouldn't have to jerk off anymore.

No, no, that's Andy Schlafly's Invisible Hand of Marriage.

24 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:06:27am

re: #14 lostlakehiker

Milton Friedman shouldn't be lumped in with the KKK, but he should be lumped in with failed policy, because his ideas are fail, Chicago school is dead, it's broken, it's dinosaurs

25 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:08:09am

I don't think the issue here is whether Friedman was any good as an economist, it's whether we're just crushing the poor moderate conservatives on this mean, mean blog.

26 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:10:31am

Off to work.

27 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:12:18am

re: #26 Walter L. Newton

Off to work.

Return in glory.

28 deranged cat  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:13:46am

bagock!!

29 deranged cat  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:13:53am

re: #26 Walter L. Newton
ps. have fun at your awful graveyard shift!

30 Nimed  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:28:14am

re: #16 Cato the Elder

re: #24 WindUpBird

No no no no. Listen people, Milton Friedman was a great economist. Really. Monetarism is a genuinely great and innovative theory and has nothing to do with either the Austrian school or a bunch of posterior and pretty questionable freshwater economical theory.

Friedman's bad rep is mostly due to the fact that Monetarism came to be associated with all the draconian fiscal and labor policies implemented by Reagan did during his Presidency that had nothing to do with Friedman's contribution to Economics.

Friedman's monetary theory is fully integrated in Neo-Keynesianism. People like Dean Baker, Krugman and Stiglitz have no problem in recognizing the role Friedman had in the history of the Economics.

31 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:35:19am

Seriously. I know the balance around here has shifted a LOT, but has it gotten to the point where we're beating up defenseless conservatives for giggles?

32 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:35:31am

'Twas Adam Smith who said "Markets are there to serve people, people are not there to serve markets", a though that thought seems to have gotten lost in the Great Free-Market Clusterf*ck this nation experienced in the first years of the XXI century.

33 Nimed  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:36:47am

re: #30 Nimed

pimf - in the history of Economics.

Here's a very good (but very long) piece by Krugman on the contributions of Friedman.
[Link: www.nybooks.com...]

I should add that yes, Friedman was indeed a pretty militant libertarian. But he was first and foremost a brilliant scholar whose work should not be discredited by his political leanings.

34 Nimed  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:46:12am

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

Seriously. I know the balance around here has shifted a LOT, but has it gotten to the point where we're beating up defenseless conservatives for giggles?

Who are these defenseless conservatives getting beat up?

35 Nimed  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:48:59am

re: #34 Nimed

pimf - getting beaten up. Gah.

36 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:49:14am

re: #30 Nimed

Friedman's bad rep is mostly due to the fact that Monetarism came to be associated with all the draconian fiscal and labor policies implemented by Reagan did during his Presidency that had nothing to do with Friedman's contribution to Economics.

Well, of course, I have no problem with that. But please stop capitalizing "economics" as though it were the Holy Grail.

I don't think anyone among us, no matter how smart, has a fucking clue about What's Going On.

37 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:49:17am

re: #34 Nimed

Who are these defenseless conservatives getting beat up?

re: #14 lostlakehiker


Ah, but it's not so easy trying to be a rational conservative here these days. It's not good enough to recognize the reality of evolution, the reality of global warming, and the necessity of granting to all the freedoms that most conveniently would be granted just to one's own.

These days, Milton Friedman and Adam Smith are lumped with the KKK.

38 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:49:39am

re: #35 Nimed

pimf - getting beaten up. Gah.

'Beat up' is colloquially correct, so you can always say you were going for that.

39 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:51:50am

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

Seriously. I know the balance around here has shifted a LOT, but has it gotten to the point where we're beating up defenseless conservatives for giggles?

People who utter unfounded statements get pounced on, be they left or right.

40 Nimed  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:00:50am

re: #36 Cato the Elder

Sorry, force of habit. I'm used to writing in contexts where the names of scientific fields and theories are capitalized by convention. Wouldn't want to treat social sciences with less deference. :)

41 Nimed  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:08:46am

re: #37 SanFranciscoZionist

re: #14 lostlakehiker

Ah, but it's not so easy trying to be a rational conservative here these days. It's not good enough to recognize the reality of evolution, the reality of global warming, and the necessity of granting to all the freedoms that most conveniently would be granted just to one's own.

These days, Milton Friedman and Adam Smith are lumped with the KKK.

Oh. :(

It's not easy to "reset" the accumulated impressions you got of people from all previous discussions and treat new arguments solely on their merits. As a consequence, good faith can be a hard thing to maintain...

42 Cato the Elder  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:39:05am

re: #40 Nimed

Sorry, force of habit. I'm used to writing in contexts where the names of scientific fields and theories are capitalized by convention. Wouldn't want to treat social sciences with less deference. :)

I treat nothing with deference until it proves itself to be worthy thereof.

43 windsagio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:41:49am

Tell me how it is, peeps

44 windsagio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:43:08am

PS: Wear a shirt!

Guy's kinda a stud tho >

45 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:44:02am

re: #43 windsagio

Tell me how it is, peeps

I'm still watching cute lesbian-curious yeshiva girls put their mysterious neighbor through badly-thought-out Kabbalistic purification rituals.

(God, I love Netflix.)

46 windsagio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:44:28am

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm still watching cute lesbian-curious yeshiva girls put their mysterious neighbor through badly-thought-out Kabbalistic purification rituals.

(God, I love Netflix.)

That's a hell of a descriptoin!

47 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:45:10am

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

I saw District 9 on my Xbox Netflix (instant gratification whoo)

God what a good movie that was o_o

48 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:47:10am

re: #46 windsagio

That's a hell of a descriptoin!

It's a good movie. Weird as hell, but fun.

49 windsagio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:49:04am

Oh, Japan, what are you thinking? (SFW)

50 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 3:08:35am

Good Morning Lizards!!!

Time for waking up (east coasters anyway).

Here is a song to get you rolling.

Youtube Video
51 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 3:10:42am

And the Simpsons' quote of the day:

Homer: "Son, if you really want something in this life, you have to work for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers."

52 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 3:12:51am

Now for something a little faster.

One of the best album covers ever!!

Youtube Video
53 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 3:19:49am

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm still watching cute lesbian-curious yeshiva girls put their mysterious neighbor through badly-thought-out Kabbalistic purification rituals.

(God, I love Netflix.)

*blink*

54 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 3:26:14am

re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm still watching cute lesbian-curious yeshiva girls put their mysterious neighbor through badly-thought-out Kabbalistic purification rituals.

(God, I love Netflix.)

i'll be round in about 5 minutes............. :-p

55 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 3:48:07am

Carla Jean: Where'd you get that pistol?
Llewelyn: At the gettin' place.

— Cormac McCarthy, No Country for Old Men

56 RadicalModerate  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:15:34am

One of the latest talking points regarding the immigration debate is the insane talking point that Texas Congressman Louie Gomert started recently regarding "terror babies" -that pregnant women are coming as tourists to have a baby and then returning to their native country, "with the nefarious purpose of turning them into little terrorists who will then come back to the U.S. and do us harm."

The last part of the quote above comes from Texas state Legislator Debbie Riddle (R-Tomball), who is one of the local mouthpieces on this lunacy. She was on CNN's Anderson Cooper last night to be interviewed about her claims that former FBI agents told her office about this supposed plot. Cooper obviously requested some sort of evidence to back up this nutty claim. Riddle not only wouldn't back up her claims, but when pressed, tried to change the focus of the conversation to the evils of "anchor babies".

Here's the video of the last night's conversation:
[Link: cnn.com...]

57 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:18:38am

re: #56 RadicalModerate

One of the latest talking points regarding the immigration debate is the insane talking point that Texas Congressman Louie Gomert started recently regarding "terror babies" -that pregnant women are coming as tourists to have a baby and then returning to their native country, "with the nefarious purpose of turning them into little terrorists who will then come back to the U.S. and do us harm."

The last part of the quote above comes from Texas state Legislator Debbie Riddle (R-Tomball), who is one of the local mouthpieces on this lunacy. She was on CNN's Anderson Cooper last night to be interviewed about her claims that former FBI agents told her office about this supposed plot. Cooper obviously requested some sort of evidence to back up this nutty claim. Riddle not only wouldn't back up her claims, but when pressed, tried to change the focus of the conversation to the evils of "anchor babies".

Here's the video of the last night's conversation:
[Link: cnn.com...]

oh come on - i mean thats like totally possible and stuff, after all the CIA did time travel to the 60's and place small ads in provincial Hawaiian news sheets...........

58 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:19:34am

Moderate Muslims can no longer afford to remain largely silent and passive in the face of the radical Islamists. Without further delay, they must stand up and be counted, by organizing and unequivocally rejecting the sick and twisted version of Islam being peddled by the extremists in America and around the world. The moderates' failure to do so en masse has allowed the extremists to hijack the agenda and to largely succeed in their nefarious objective of fostering an atmosphere of intolerance and divisiveness.
Many moderates have been working hard to point out the problems with Islam, but their pleas for reform have so far not gained the necessary traction in their own community. Instead, the vast majority of moderate Muslims have failed miserably to actively engage in a public fashion to reject Muslim extremism, which is precisely what is desperately needed to more effectively combat the current and growing atmosphere of bigotry.
Cast out the extremists!

59 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:23:13am

re: #50 rwdflynavy

Good Morning Lizards!!!

Time for waking up (east coasters anyway).

Here is a song to get you rolling.


[Video]

Never thought I'd see this song on LGF...lol

60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:29:26am

re: #59 TheMatrix31

I'm jamming along to it.

61 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:34:00am

re: #25 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't think the issue here is whether Friedman was any good as an economist, it's whether we're just crushing the poor moderate conservatives on this mean, mean blog.

Diddums.

62 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:37:18am

re: #60 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm jamming along to it.

It's definitely bad ass.

I've got most of his discography on my hard drive. Great stuff.

63 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:37:44am

Well there goes the peace talks under George Mitchell. No end in site to this conflict.

64 Wozza Matter?  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:39:17am

laters gators

65 TheMatrix31  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:42:42am

I'm out, good night.

66 pharmmajor  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:55:51am

I deed naw heet her. Is not troo, is bullsheet. I deed naw heet her. I deed nahhhht!... Oh hai Mark.

67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:57:01am

re: #66 pharmmajor

wut?

68 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:57:40am

re: #62 TheMatrix31

It's definitely bad ass.

I've got most of his discography on my hard drive. Great stuff.

I got hooked on Armik while on the Costa del Sol in southern spain. A buddy on the ship had the album.

69 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 4:58:58am

re: #56 RadicalModerate

One of the latest talking points regarding the immigration debate is the insane talking point that Texas Congressman Louie Gomert started recently regarding "terror babies" -that pregnant women are coming as tourists to have a baby and then returning to their native country, "with the nefarious purpose of turning them into little terrorists who will then come back to the U.S. and do us harm."

The last part of the quote above comes from Texas state Legislator Debbie Riddle (R-Tomball), who is one of the local mouthpieces on this lunacy. She was on CNN's Anderson Cooper last night to be interviewed about her claims that former FBI agents told her office about this supposed plot. Cooper obviously requested some sort of evidence to back up this nutty claim. Riddle not only wouldn't back up her claims, but when pressed, tried to change the focus of the conversation to the evils of "anchor babies".

Here's the video of the last night's conversation:
[Link: cnn.com...]


Dear GOP,

Please see the above. This is not helping our cause.

That is all.

Hugs and Kisses,
An almost former GOPer.

70 Aye Pod  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:03:20am

re: #14 lostlakehiker


Ah, but it's not so easy trying to be a rational conservative here these days. It's not good enough to recognize the reality of evolution, the reality of global warming, and the necessity of granting to all the freedoms that most conveniently would be granted just to one's own.

You mean rational consevatives have to be not only rational about evolution and global warming etc but all the other stuff too? That's just mean/

71 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:10:30am

FBV,

Can you drop me an email. Nic is blue.

72 pharmmajor  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:24:41am

re: #67 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

wut?

It's from Tommy Wiseau's movie The Room. Watch it only with a RiffTrax or you will go insane.

73 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:29:29am

Lizards,

Excuse the small geekfest.

/Geek on
I recently got a smart phone (Droid X). I have several ipod capable products, an ihome clock/stereo/radio and an FM transmitter for my car, both designed to hold/transmit an ipod's info.

Recently bought one of these, and can now play my phone over blue tooth through either device. So now I can listen to pandora or anything else on these. Cool and cheap repurpose.

Geek off/

74 cronus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:33:24am

Morning Lizards:

Initial jobless claims rise 2,000 to 484,000

The number of initial claims for regular state unemployment insurance benefits rose 2,000 to 484,000 in the week ended August 7, reaching the highest level since February, the Labor Department reported Thursday. Economists polled by MarketWatch had expected a level of 463,000. The four-week average of initial claims -- a more accurate gauge of employment trends -- rose 14,250 to 473,500, also the highest level since February.

75 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:38:13am

re: #58 Spare O'Lake

Reworked it a bit for ya:

Moderate Republicans can no longer afford to remain largely silent and passive in the face of the radical Teabaggers. Without further delay, they must stand up and be counted, by organizing and unequivocally rejecting the sick and twisted version of Conservatism being peddled by the extremists in America and around the world. The moderates' failure to do so en masse has allowed the extremists to hijack the agenda and to largely succeed in their nefarious objective of fostering an atmosphere of intolerance and divisiveness.
Many moderates have been working hard to point out the problems with Conservatism, but their pleas for reform have so far not gained the necessary traction in their own community. Instead, the vast majority of moderate Republicans have failed miserably to actively engage in a public fashion to reject Tea Party extremism, which is precisely what is desperately needed to more effectively combat the current and growing atmosphere of bigotry.
Cast out the extremists!

76 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:52:24am

re: #75 ralphieboy

Nice going, you killed the thread!
//

77 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:52:57am

The extremists threatened it and it backed down

78 garhighway  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:55:23am

re: #58 Spare O'Lake

Moderate Muslims can no longer afford to remain largely silent and passive in the face of the radical Islamists. Without further delay, they must stand up and be counted, by organizing and unequivocally rejecting the sick and twisted version of Islam being peddled by the extremists in America and around the world. The moderates' failure to do so en masse has allowed the extremists to hijack the agenda and to largely succeed in their nefarious objective of fostering an atmosphere of intolerance and divisiveness.
Many moderates have been working hard to point out the problems with Islam, but their pleas for reform have so far not gained the necessary traction in their own community. Instead, the vast majority of moderate Muslims have failed miserably to actively engage in a public fashion to reject Muslim extremism, which is precisely what is desperately needed to more effectively combat the current and growing atmosphere of bigotry.
Cast out the extremists!

Do you have any other major religions you would like to run?

79 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 5:56:59am

re: #78 garhighway

Do you have any other major religions you would like to run out of town on a rail?

Fixed it for ya.

80 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:05:09am

re: #78 garhighway

You're right, but you're only scratching the surface. There's a lot more at play here then your average secular or minimally-observant Muslim not speaking out against a extremist minority. It is domestic politics, the West's and East's foreign policy, and economics funneled into a big messy knot. To find that golden strand that will unravel the doldrums of Middle Eastern politics and disturbing extremism, you have to peel back many more layers of social and economic problems first. It's not enough to say, "this problem is entirely solvable by the Arab-Muslims if they would just speak out against radicalism."

You are treating Arabs and Arab-Muslims monolithically, albeit with much more tolerance.

81 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:05:32am

Good morning Lizards. 77 F and cloudy in "sunny" Philadelphia.

Back from my week long "exile" to the wild cornfields of southern Illinois. No cell phone reception, no wireless (and very limited internet access), and at least having A/C available to make the stay tolerable. Spent the time hashing through stuff with a business partner (he does the work, I supply money), looking through the "new" cooking facility, cooking and eating food, and basically just hanging out.

Transit to and from was interesting since I drove and made a number of stops. Saw friends in a number of cities (Pittsburgh, Indianapolis, Marietta) and also got time to stop and visit the Patton Museum at Fort Knox before a chunk of the collection gets moved to Georgia. And I did a fair job of getting off the interstates for a piece of the driving to slow down and enjoy the rural areas in the Midwest for a bit.

And then I encountered a Cadillac on the outskirts of Carbondale with four homemade "Watch Glenn Beck" bumper stickers...

82 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:07:07am

re: #81 oaktree

I'd take 77 and cloudy over the sticky weather, high dew point, and disgusting heat index.

83 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:15:50am

re: #82 jordash1212

I'd take 77 and cloudy over the sticky weather, high dew point, and disgusting heat index.

Oh, it's very humid and the temp will probably hit the mid 90s by early afternoon.

I was told in Illinois that I hit a "good" weekend where it was only going to the low 90s during the day. I scampered back east just ahead of the temps hitting triple digits again. "Outside" temp according to my car for most of the driving was 90-95 the whole way. And the A/C threatened to outright quit a number of times. Went with 55/4 cooling when I was on the rural road parts of the trip in any case.

84 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:16:43am

re: #83 oaktree

How fast did you drive to find AC between the heat and to get away from the Glenn Beck supporters?

85 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:20:50am

re: #84 jordash1212

How fast did you drive to find AC between the heat and to get away from the Glenn Beck supporters?

About 65 mph. But that was also in order to find a local Starbucks since you know those are liberal infiltration points... ;)

(Actually looked for one to get wireless access to make a hotel reservation. Friend's computer is a mess. If you tried to make a booking using Expedia with either Firefox or IE it crashed the browser.)

And I discovered that the rural midwest has *both* kinds of radio stations. Country, and Western. ;)

86 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:23:08am

re: #85 oaktree

Makes you value a good 3G connection. I jailbroke my iPhone and was using it as a modem for my laptop at work. It works pretty well for web browsing and video streaming. Not to mention you could easily stream your preferred radio stations.

87 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:24:44am

re: #86 jordash1212

Makes you value a good 3G connection. I jailbroke my iPhone and was using it as a modem for my laptop at work. It works pretty well for web browsing and video streaming. Not to mention you could easily stream your preferred radio stations.

How do you turn an iPhone into a modem?

88 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:25:33am

re: #84 jordash1212

How fast did you drive to find AC between the heat and to get away from the Glenn Beck supporters?

Why not just stay on either coast to keep away from us poor, dumb bastards in fly-over states?

89 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:27:37am

A public Fatah event under the auspices of Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas included a song celebrating Fatah's 1978 terror attack in which 37 Israeli civilians were murdered in a bus hijacking.

In addition, two summer camps for Palestinian youth were named after Dalal Mughrabi, the terrorist who led the 1978 attack.

The song chosen to be performed at the Fatah event glorified the terrorists led by Mughrabi as "birds of prey" and "heroic," and noted stages of the attack, which started when terrorists landed by sea from Lebanon.

SNIP

90 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:28:32am

re: #86 jordash1212

Makes you value a good 3G connection. I jailbroke my iPhone and was using it as a modem for my laptop at work. It works pretty well for web browsing and video streaming. Not to mention you could easily stream your preferred radio stations.

I should probably simply get the CD player in my car fixed - that would deal with the radio issue.

That there was no Verizon coverage where I was staying was something I knew about from previous visits. Basically a dead spot since you could drive 7-8 miles in either direction and have 4-5 bars of reception.

Hmm, the heavy haze here has converted into actual precipitation.

91 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:29:24am

re: #85 oaktree

When I was a truck driver, I did a lot of deliveries throughout the rural Midwest. Satellite radio was a godsend... Chasing down those back roads is much easier with a station you can stand.

92 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:32:40am

re: #89 MandyManners

How do you think Abu Mazen has stayed in control of Fatah for so long? Just like Arafat, he speaks from both sides of his mouth. It's politically untenable for him to acknowledge an Israeli state in some circles, so he's got a spiel for everyone. It'll take a new generation of leaders to create any kind of lasting peace between Palestinians and Israelis.

If only Netanyahu could get a more centrist coalition together and put some real pressure on the Palestinians, but then that means the Palestinians have to reciprocate, and I just don't see that happening on account of domestic sentiment.

93 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:34:31am

re: #92 jordash1212

How do you think Abu Mazen has stayed in control of Fatah for so long? Just like Arafat, he speaks from both sides of his mouth. It's politically untenable for him to acknowledge an Israeli state in some circles, so he's got a spiel for everyone. It'll take a new generation of leaders to create any kind of lasting peace between Palestinians and Israelis.

If only Netanyahu could get a more centrist coalition together and put some real pressure on the Palestinians, but then that means the Palestinians have to reciprocate, and I just don't see that happening on account of domestic sentiment.

You're blaming Israel for this shit? Jews forced the Jordyptians to vote for Abu Abbas and Hamas?

94 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:35:13am

So very bloody easy to blame the Israelis for the whole fucking ball of wax.

95 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:37:01am

re: #91 wlewisiii

When I was a truck driver, I did a lot of deliveries throughout the rural Midwest. Satellite radio was a godsend... Chasing down those back roads is much easier with a station you can stand.

I'm amazed that more truck drivers don't flip out at some of the stupidities smaller cars commit around them. A lot of drivers need further education regarding the basics of momentum and inertia, then maybe they'd realize that there is a three-car long gap in front of that truck for a reason other than providing them a place to do a sudden two-lane swerve (w/o signaling). :p

Saw some absolute craziness that left me shaking my head on the stretch of joint I-71/I-75 in northern Kentucky just south of Cincinnati. Don't care for that section of road since it's the combination of merge, uphill, and heavy traffic that makes folk impatient and willing to do stupid things to gain what they consider advantageous position.

96 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:38:08am

re: #94 MandyManners

So very bloody easy to blame the Israelis for the whole fucking ball of wax.

Nah. Blame the UN. They voted Israel into existence in the first place.

///

97 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:39:20am

If only the Israelis would extend one more offer, the whole issue would be solved.

If only the Israelis would just bend a bit more, the whole issue would be solved.

If only the Israelis would elect a leader the rest of the world likes, the whole issue would be solved.

98 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:39:50am

re: #96 oaktree

Nah. Blame the UN. They voted Israel into existence in the first place.

///

Israel would have existed despite the vote of the U.N..

99 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:40:02am

The U.N. is not God.

100 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:40:51am

re: #96 oaktree

How about a taste of what the U.N. has done for Israel?

101 kalkin  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:42:18am

re: #99 MandyManners
But sonmetimes I think that UN sure that UN is above the God.

102 MandyManners  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:42:25am

Oops. Look at the time. I gotta' gas up the bitch-mobile and get to a faraway city for another round of committee meetings.


Have a great day, Lizards1

103 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:44:38am

re: #92 jordash1212

How do you think Abu Mazen has stayed in control of Fatah for so long? Just like Arafat, he speaks from both sides of his mouth. It's politically untenable for him to acknowledge an Israeli state in some circles, so he's got a spiel for everyone. It'll take a new generation of leaders to create any kind of lasting peace between Palestinians and Israelis.

If only Netanyahu could get a more centrist coalition together and put some real pressure on the Palestinians, but then that means the Palestinians have to reciprocate, and I just don't see that happening on account of domestic sentiment.

You mean like when Kadima was in charge, all that excellent progress that was made?

/

104 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:58:06am

re: #93 MandyManners

If you read what I said, that's hardly it. I'm not blaming for the Israelis to take that position. I'm blaming the Palestinians for creating this environment. It's a vicious cycle of irrational Palestinian demands, countered by the Israelis shutting down, international condemnation, Israel opening up just to be shut down by the Palestinians, and repeat that all again with any kind of variation you want. I'm not blaming the Israelis. I'm a constructive critic, not a destructive critic like Thomas Friedman would say.

105 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:59:00am

re: #104 jordash1212

If you read what I said, that's hardly it. I'm not blaming for the Israelis to take that position. I'm blaming the Palestinians for creating this environment. It's a vicious cycle of irrational Palestinian demands, countered by the Israelis shutting down, international condemnation, Israel opening up just to be shut down by the Palestinians, and repeat that all again with any kind of variation you want. I'm not blaming the Israelis. I'm a constructive critic, not a destructive critic like Thomas Friedman would say.

You claimed that a "more centrist coalition" would make progress. How much progress was made by Kadima?

106 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:59:31am

re: #105 Alouette

Well they wouldn't be building settlements now would they?

107 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 6:59:52am

re: #88 MandyManners

Why not just stay on either coast to keep away from us poor, dumb bastards in fly-over states?

Yes, because no one ever disparages those of us who live on the coasts.
;)

108 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:01:21am

re: #106 jordash1212

Well they wouldn't be building settlements now would they?

I asked you what progress was made by Kadima and you respond with a non-sequitur?

109 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:03:21am

re: #108 Alouette

Why do you want to focus on the past when it's about future decisions?

110 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:07:19am

re: #109 jordash1212

Why do you want to focus on the past when it's about future decisions?

Because you made the claim that a "more centrist coalition" would achieve progress. It is useful to ask if a "more centrist coalition" has accomplished progress in the past, then you would have a basis for making such a claim.

111 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:13:24am

re: #110 Alouette

Oh fine, you win. They haven't made ANY progress (the irony stings), but what has the current government and coalition given Israel? A nasty war, political stagnation, promotion of racist settlers... democracy demands regime change if one party isn't getting work done. I agree with Likud on a few things, specifically national security.
My point is, and I'm sure as an avid follower of American politics you can appreciate this, if one party is failing and another party is promising something better, then perhaps it's time to turn the reins over to a fresh mind.

112 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:24:12am

re: #75 ralphieboy

Reworked it a bit for ya:

That's it, perfect illustration of my point about not blaming everyone else. Your enabling attitude is a big part of their problem.

113 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:26:22am

re: #78 garhighway

Do you have any other major religions you would like to run?

That's the spirit, just sit there in your self-flagellating political correctness and watch it all coming down.

114 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:27:39am

Morning lizards!

115 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:30:14am

re: #108 Alouette

I asked you what progress was made by Kadima and you respond with a non-sequitur?

Get the clue bat ready.

116 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:38:46am

This doesn't sound good...

'Iran to give Hizbullah weapons'

Turkey and Iran are rumored to be helping Hizbullah obtain new weapons, Italian daily Corriere Della Sera reported on Wednesday evening.

Turkish intelligence chief Hakan Fidan reportedly met with his Iranian counterpart Hossein Taeb to discuss relations between the two countries.

Sources told Corriere Della Sera that Turkey will "send sophisticated weapons, rockets and guns to Syria, that will end up in Lebanon," where the Iranian Army will ensure the weapons are transferred to Hizbullah.

The Iranian Revolutionary Guards "will facilitate the transition, ensure safety, watch loads on the routes, and provide support to the border," the report said.

The Iranians reportedly want to build a weapons network similar to that in the Sudan, and hope to help Hamas, as well.

117 McSpiff  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:39:26am

re: #113 Spare O'Lake

That's the spirit, just sit there in your self-flagellating political correctness and watch it all coming down.

Ah yes, the last refuge of the wingnut, blaming the boogie man of political correctness!

118 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:39:48am

re: #111 jordash1212

Oh fine, you win. They haven't made ANY progress (the irony stings), but what has the current government and coalition given Israel? A nasty war, political stagnation, promotion of racist settlers... democracy demands regime change if one party isn't getting work done. I agree with Likud on a few things, specifically national security.
My point is, and I'm sure as an avid follower of American politics you can appreciate this, if one party is failing and another party is promising something better, then perhaps it's time to turn the reins over to a fresh mind.

The party not in power always promises something better.

That's so freaking lame.

119 McSpiff  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:40:51am

re: #118 Alouette

The party not in power always promises something better.

That's so freaking lame.

Can we make this a rotating title? It works for just about everything

120 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:44:12am

Israel finds rare 2,200-year-old gold coin

JERUSALEM — Archaeologists say they have uncovered the heaviest and most valuable gold coin ever found in Israel. The 2,200-year-old coin weighs an ounce (28 grams) and was found at the Tel Kedesh site near the Lebanon border on June 22, according to Wednesday's statement from the antiquities authority.

It said this coin is six times the weight of most others from that era.

Donald Ariel, head of the antiquities authority coin department, said the coin dates back to the rule of the Iraq-based Seleucid Empire, though it was minted by the rival Egyptian Ptolemies.

Ariel said the coin's image may represent Cleopatra I, wife of Ptolemy V. It is only the second gold Ptolemaic coin ever found in Israel. The first weighed just two grams (0.07 ounces).

121 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:54:39am

re: #112 Spare O'Lake

That's it, perfect illustration of my point about not blaming everyone else. Your enabling attitude is a big part of their problem.

Enabling of what?

122 Taqyia2Me  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:55:04am

re: #88 MandyManners

Why not just stay on either coast to keep away from us poor, dumb bastards in fly-over states?

Heck, Mandy..if any Lizard ever stops by my little chunk of flyover country, me and the Mrs. Will put away the spray cheese and break out the good stuff! You know, the Veveeta! :)

123 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:57:19am

re: #122 Taqyia2Me

Heck, Mandy..if any Lizard ever stops by my little chunk of flyover country, me and the Mrs. Will put away the spray cheese and break out the good stuff! You know, the Veveeta! :)

Pardon me, do you have any grey poupon?

124 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 7:59:00am

re: #117 McSpiff

Ah yes, the last refuge of the wingnut, blaming the boogie man of political correctness!

Feel good, say nothing.

125 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:00:09am

Booga booga!!!

126 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:00:33am

San Francisco pol wants to take the joy out of a Happy Meal

Toys that have been synonymous with kids’ meals at fast-food restaurants could soon be banned in San Francisco under a new law proposed Tuesday if the food contains too much fat, sugar or salt.

Earlier this year, Santa Clara County became the first local government in the nation to adopt such a law, but it only applies to unincorporated areas and affects a handful of restaurants.

San Francisco’s proposal could have a far greater impact. The restrictions would pertain to all restaurants but effectively would target the dozens of fast-food establishments in the city, among them McDonald’s, Jack in the Box and Burger King.

San Francisco’s legislation would not prohibit toy giveaways outright, but limit them to menu items that meet strict nutrition guidelines.

127 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:01:00am

NO GROUND ZERO MOSQUE1!!1!1

128 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:02:41am

re: #121 Varek Raith

Enabling of what?

Enabling moderate Muslims' ongoing epic failure to stand up to their own extremists and kick their stinking asses out of their religious institutions and positions of power.

129 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:03:43am

re: #118 Alouette

Well I'm not happy with Netanyahu, Likud, and Beteinu Yisrael. So I'm going to hope Kadima gets a shot. If they screw it up then maybe Likud will reform and take a crack at it. My point is this: on the current path, nothing will ever be resolved. Quit pretending like this Israeli government is infallible and is 100% in the right and that no other political party has what it takes to make peace.

130 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:03:53am

re: #128 Spare O'Lake

Enabling moderate Muslims' ongoing epic failure to stand up to their own extremists and kick their stinking asses out of their religious institutions and positions of power.

Are you really that ignorant or are you just role-playing for attention?

131 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:04:55am
132 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:05:13am

re: #128 Spare O'Lake

Enabling moderate Muslims' ongoing epic failure to stand up to their own extremists and kick their stinking asses out of their religious institutions and positions of power.

Intriguing.
While true, I could say the same of the Church.
Why haven't they kicked out Fred Phelps?
Why haven't they kicked out the pedophile Priests?
Why haven't they condemned the AFA fool wanting to ban all Mosques in the US?

133 Reginald Perrin  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:06:08am

re: #131 Spare O'Lake

Did you man up and apologize to SFZ?

134 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:06:24am

re: #131 Spare O'Lake

Say something real or shut the fuck up, simp.

Stop talking like Pamela Geller and I'll take you seriously.

135 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:06:32am

re: #132 Varek Raith

What church is Fred Phelps a member of? I thought he had his own thing going.

136 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:07:19am

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

What church is Fred Phelps a member of? I thought he had his own thing going.

Nice try.

137 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:07:48am

How about the Army of God?

138 lostlakehiker  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:08:02am

re: #15 SanFranciscoZionist

By whom, exactly?

OK, I go and say that dental care is part of the free market just like wine and bread. Pure Friedman and Smith. Bang. Down comes the downding hammer.

Then I observe that this is what happens, and down it comes again.

139 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:08:03am

re: #132 Varek Raith

Intriguing.
While true, I could say the same of the ChurchChristians.
Why haven't they kicked out Fred Phelps?
Why haven't they kicked out the pedophile Priests?
Why haven't they condemned the AFA fool wanting to ban all Mosques in the US?

It's muslims vs christians, not muslims vs "the Church"

140 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:08:17am

re: #132 Varek Raith

Intriguing.
While true, I could say the same of the Church.
Why haven't they kicked out Fred Phelps?
Why haven't they kicked out the pedophile Priests?
Why haven't they condemned the AFA fool wanting to ban all Mosques in the US?

Of course you can say the name of the Church, I'm not defending them. But it's time for moderate Muslims to stand up NOW and clean their own house instead of deflecting.

141 Taqyia2Me  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:08:24am

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

What church is Fred Phelps a member of? I thought he had his own thing going.

Yep, kinda like the Muslim Brotherhood.

142 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:08:46am

re: #129 jordash1212

Well I'm not happy with Netanyahu, Likud, and Beteinu Yisrael. So I'm going to hope Kadima gets a shot. If they screw it up then maybe Likud will reform and take a crack at it. My point is this: on the current path, nothing will ever be resolved. Quit pretending like this Israeli government is infallible and is 100% in the right and that no other political party has what it takes to make peace.

Clue by Four: Kadima has already had their shot, screwed it up, and that is why Likud is in control.

I see you are afflicted by that Short Term Memory Loss Syndrome that affects many people who think "making peace" means doing the same damn thing over and over and over again but expecting to get different results.

143 Taqyia2Me  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:09:21am

re: #137 Varek Raith

How about the Army of God?

The Taliban?

144 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:09:33am

re: #142 Alouette

Apparently you have that same syndrome because what Likud and company is doing isn't really working either. I think it's making things worse.

145 tnguitarist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:10:16am

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

What church is Fred Phelps a member of? I thought he had his own thing going.

Muslims are monolithic, but Christians aren't?

146 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:10:18am

re: #134 darthstar

Stop talking like Pamela Geller and I'll take you seriously.

You got nothing except name-calling and ankle-biting, simp. Go talk to the wall.

147 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:10:25am

re: #144 jordash1212

Apparently you have that same syndrome because what Likud and company is doing isn't really working either. I think it's making things worse.

In what way is it making things worse?

148 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:10:56am

re: #140 Spare O'Lake

Of course you can say the name of the Church, I'm not defending them. But it's time for moderate Muslims to stand up NOW and clean their own house instead of deflecting.

True.
I'm just applying your statement to the Church, who has done nothing but deflect. And yet, I hardly see any calls from Christians to stop this. It's just ignored. As a lot of Muslims do.

149 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:11:48am

re: #136 Varek Raith

Nice try.

That's your answer? Maybe I should ask his old friend Al Gore.

150 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:12:09am

re: #143 Taqyia2Me

The Taliban?

Google cache link. WARNING IS COMPLETELY NSFW. THESE BASTARDS ARE SICK.
[Link: webcache.googleusercontent.com...]

151 Ericus58  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:13:06am

re: #129 jordash1212

Well I'm not happy with Netanyahu, Likud, and Beteinu Yisrael. So I'm going to hope Kadima gets a shot. If they screw it up then maybe Likud will reform and take a crack at it. My point is this: on the current path, nothing will ever be resolved. Quit pretending like this Israeli government is infallible and is 100% in the right and that no other political party has what it takes to make peace.

Perhaps the REAL question should be - "Do the Arab countries have what it takes to want Peace, let alone make peace?"

152 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:13:17am

re: #149 NJDhockeyfan

That's your answer? Maybe I should ask his old friend Al Gore.

Go ahead. What do I care? All this religious nonsense is just amusing to me.
/ELITIST PRICK

153 lostlakehiker  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:13:27am

re: #56 RadicalModerate

One of the latest talking points regarding the immigration debate is the insane talking point that Texas Congressman Louie Gomert started recently regarding "terror babies" -that pregnant women are coming as tourists to have a baby and then returning to their native country, "with the nefarious purpose of turning them into little terrorists who will then come back to the U.S. and do us harm."

The last part of the quote above comes from Texas state Legislator Debbie Riddle (R-Tomball), who is one of the local mouthpieces on this lunacy. She was on CNN's Anderson Cooper last night to be interviewed about her claims that former FBI agents told her office about this supposed plot. Cooper obviously requested some sort of evidence to back up this nutty claim. Riddle not only wouldn't back up her claims, but when pressed, tried to change the focus of the conversation to the evils of "anchor babies".

Here's the video of the last night's conversation:
[Link: cnn.com...]

Insane? Talking points aren't meant to be part of rational political discourse. They're meant to rev the engines of the base.

Gohmert is quite sane. He sees a possible way to get what he wants and he's giving it a try. If he were selling a product other than politics, this would be fraud. In politics, you can stir up groundless fears, do almost anything, and it's legal. Just ask Harry Reid about the dangers of the nuclear waste repository at Yucca Flats.

I've already cussed out Reid in another flat, so this is for Gohmert and Riddle: you lying bastards. Shame.

154 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:14:06am

re: #148 Varek Raith

True.
I'm just applying your statement to the Church, who has done nothing but deflect. And yet, I hardly see any calls from Christians to stop this. It's just ignored. As a lot of Muslims do.

Right you are.

155 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:14:36am

re: #129 jordash1212

Quit pretending like this Israeli government is infallible and is 100% in the right and that no other political party has what it takes to make peace.

Nobody is pretending that. This is your own straw man.

156 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:16:02am

re: #147 Alouette

Palestinians are feeling increasingly alienated in the international community and we all know they are incapable of blaming themselves and their own leadership, and Hamas, the Turkish, and Iranian-Lebanese governments are kind of extending them an olive branch right now, so guess who they can very easily blame after the flotilla incident: Israel.

For a while there they actually thought the Jordanians and Egyptians would act in their interests, but both ended up signing peace treaties with Israel, so that's out the window. Hardliner Israeli politics only makes it easier for the Palestinians to blame the Israelis. I'm not asking for unconditional Israeli acquiescence. I'm asking for pragmatism (i.e. Kadima) in place of rigid ideological boundaries (i.e. Likud).

157 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:16:31am

re: #154 Spare O'Lake

Right you are.

That's it?!?!
What the hell are we arguing about, then?!?!
Pineapples on pizza forever!
XD

158 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:17:44am

re: #151 Ericus58

Peace will come with the Arabs once the Palestinians are satisfied. It's a taboo issue for Arab politicians to dabble too much in Palestinian politics. It usually involves an Israeli invasion or some other kind of repercussion.

159 Buck  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:19:20am

re: #148 Varek Raith

I hardly see any calls from Christians to stop this.

But you probably don't look for it, or it doesn't get reported enough to get on your radar screen.

Are you aware of the counter protests that occur every time Phelps and his perverts gather? For example the one at Comic Con? Who were those people?

Can you imagine muslim counter protests to Israel Apartheid week?

160 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:19:27am

re: #156 jordash1212

Can't we just give Israel our Republicans? They have all the answers.

161 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:19:47am
It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone. War was always here. Before man was, war waited for him. The ultimate trade awaiting its ultimate practitioner. That is the way it was and will be....
War is the ultimate game because war is at last a forcing of the unity of existence. War is god.


Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
Judge Holden, Chapter 17, Page 248.

162 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:20:12am

re: #160 darthstar

Now wouldn't that be interesting.

163 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:22:22am

re: #157 Varek Raith

That's it?!?!
What the hell are we arguing about, then?!?!
Pineapples on pizza forever!
XD

I posted an appeal for Muslim to stand up and boot out their loons before it's too late. Some PC folks around here found that objectionable because they have been programmed to spend ALL their time blaming the GOP and the Christian extremists.

165 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:23:16am

re: #162 jordash1212

Now wouldn't that be interesting.

There wouldn't be any real policy change, but maybe the Palestinians and Israeli citizenry alike would say, "Fuck! There goes the neighborhood." and they'd all get along for fear of the craziness.

166 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:23:43am

re: #156 jordash1212

Palestinians are feeling increasingly alienated in the international community and we all know they are incapable of blaming themselves and their own leadership, and Hamas, the Turkish, and Iranian-Lebanese governments are kind of extending them an olive branch right now, so guess who they can very easily blame after the flotilla incident: Israel.

For a while there they actually thought the Jordanians and Egyptians would act in their interests, but both ended up signing peace treaties with Israel, so that's out the window. Hardliner Israeli politics only makes it easier for the Palestinians to blame the Israelis. I'm not asking for unconditional Israeli acquiescence. I'm asking for pragmatism (i.e. Kadima) in place of rigid ideological boundaries (i.e. Likud).

I have to repeat: Kadima fucked up with their "pragmatic" policies (like abandoning Gaza). That is why they are not in control now. Giving them a second chance to repeat what they already did only guarantees they will fuck up again.

Giving the Palestinians "some stuff" only results in their demanding "more stuff."

Have you noticed that the Palestinian demands have shifted from "get rid of all settlements" to "Right of Return"?

167 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:24:25am

re: #159 Buck

But you probably don't look for it, or it doesn't get reported enough to get on your radar screen.

Are you aware of the counter protests that occur every time Phelps and his perverts gather? For example the one at Comic Con? Who were those people?

Can you imagine muslim counter protests to Israel Apartheid week?

Comic-con? That was an organized Christian response to Phelps? Yelling "What do we want" "Gay Sex!" "When do we want it?" "Now!"

Which church is that, I want to go.

168 tnguitarist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:24:28am

Asking Muslims in this country to denounce Middle Eastern terrorists is almost like asking Christians in England to denounce abortion clinic bombings.

169 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:24:39am

re: #166 Alouette

What are you proposing then? The two sides have to reconcile. Surely you must agree to that?

170 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:25:20am

re: #166 Alouette

I have to repeat: Kadima fucked up with their "pragmatic" policies (like abandoning Gaza). That is why they are not in control now. Giving them a second chance to repeat what they already did only guarantees they will fuck up again.

Giving the Palestinians "some stuff" only results in their demanding "more stuff."

Have you noticed that the Palestinian demands have shifted from "get rid of all settlements" to "Right of Return"?

Right of Return has been a demand for decades. Nothing new there.

171 Ojoe  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:25:33am

re: #167 Jeff In Ohio

There is a church for everyone, & the State should stay out of the marriage business completely.

172 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:25:34am

re: #163 Spare O'Lake

I posted an appeal for Muslim to stand up and boot out their loons before it's too late. Some PC folks around here found that objectionable because they have been programmed to spend ALL their time blaming the GOP and the Christian extremists.

You posted an appeal to moderate muslims on LGF?

Why?

173 deranged cat  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:25:37am

re: #31 SanFranciscoZionist

Seriously. I know the balance around here has shifted a LOT, but has it gotten to the point where we're beating up defenseless conservatives for giggles?

i agree with re: #39 ralphieboy, people who say stupid or illogical things deserve to get beat up on. And let's be honest here, the Republicans have, probably every freaking day, said something ridiculous/fearmongering/unrealistic. or just straight up lied or been extremely hypocritical. urgh it annoys me.

174 Ojoe  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:26:38am

re: #172 Jeff In Ohio

Why not?

175 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:26:39am

re: #169 jordash1212

What are you proposing then? The two sides have to reconcile. Surely you must agree to that?

Really? I generally bet on self destructive nihilism.

176 Ericus58  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:27:25am

re: #158 jordash1212

Peace will come with the Arabs once the Palestinians are satisfied. It's a taboo issue for Arab politicians to dabble too much in Palestinian politics. It usually involves an Israeli invasion or some other kind of repercussion.

The Palestinians have Gaza - from which they've wasted an opportunity to show a functioning government and the ability to live in peace next to Israel.

The West Bank attacks have only stopped due to a wall built by Israel, not due to the Palestinians diplomacy or peace initiatives (has there been a Palestinian Peace Initiative?).

What Peace Initiatives have been started and followed through from the Arab countries in the Region? What governments have set forth equal-status policy initiatives, with recognition of Israel?

177 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:27:47am

Can those of you who think it's so easy for moderate Muslims to just come out and stand with one another and denounce their radical counterparts explain your reasoning?

178 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:28:07am

re: #171 Ojoe

There is a church for everyone, & the State should stay out of the marriage business completely.

Fine with me. I just want to know which church was advocating for unrestricted gay sex at Comic-con as a protest to Westboro Baptist. See, I like sex, I want to join and daily demonstrate my opposition to Westboro Baptist.

179 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:28:24am

re: #168 tnguitarist

Asking Muslims in this country to denounce Middle Eastern terrorists is almost like asking Christians in England to denounce abortion clinic bombings.

Bullshit. And by the way, why don't they start by denouncing American Islamist extremists i.e. clean their own house right at home in America?

180 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:28:30am

re: #169 jordash1212

What are you proposing then? The two sides have to reconcile. Surely you must agree to that?

The problem is with the Palestinians and their maximalist demands. Until they get some new leadership, nothing the Israelis do can solve the problem.

It would help if the Arab countries would give full rights and citizenship to the "Palestinians" who have been living in their countries as "refugees" since 1948, but I'm not putting my last nickel in that slot machine.

181 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:29:49am

re: #122 Taqyia2Me

Heck, Mandy..if any Lizard ever stops by my little chunk of flyover country, me and the Mrs. Will put away the spray cheese and break out the good stuff! You know, the Veveeta! :)

That's a neat joke.

And then this past week I had to do a quick grocery store run to the little town ~9 miles away from where I was staying in southern Illinois. (Little population 200 place about 50 miles from Carbondale.)

Since bean dip was being made I mentioned seeing if I could find some fresh cilantro and/or parsley to go with the food being prepared. My friend simply said "Good luck with that" and let me make the trip. My expectations were not sky high for a local supermarket in a rural town, but the place was simple produce, meat, some fruit, and packaged everything else.

Culinary wasteland.

Made me realize how spoiled I am living on the coast with the huge diversity of ethnic food products, produce stores, and large supermarkets (between Trader Joe's and Mega-Wegs* it seems possible to find almost anything.)

* - Nickname given to the monster Wegman's stores.

P.S. - On this trip I've also discovered the source buyer's of Budweiser's awful Bud Light w/lime product.

182 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:29:54am

What a nice Muslim leader they have in Saudi Arabia...

Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Arifi: The Desire to Shed Blood, Smash Skulls, and Sever Limbs for the Sake of Allah Is an Honor for the Believer

Muhammad Al-Arifi: There is no doubt that a person whom Allah enables to sacrifice his soul, and to fight for the sake of Allah, has been graced with a great honor. The Prophet Muhammad said that the dust of battle for the sake of Allah and the smoke of Hell shall never meet in a man's nose.

[...]

Devotion to Jihad for the sake of Allah, and the desire to shed blood, to smash skulls and to sever limbs for the sake of Allah and in defense of His religion, is, undoubtedly, an honor for the believer.

[...]

Allah said that if a man fights the infidels, the infidels will be unable to prepare to fight [the Muslims]. By Allah, the infidel countries today – the US and its allies – dare to fight the Muslims, to rape their women and turn them into widows, and to inflict their corruption on Islam and the Muslims on a daily basis only because they see that the Muslims do not even consider fighting the infidels and conquering their countries.

[...]

The Koranic verses that deal with fighting the infidels and conquering their countries say that they should convert to Islam, pay the jizya poll tax, or be killed. If the Muslims had implemented this, we would not have reached the humiliation in which we find ourselves today.

183 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:29:59am

re: #176 Ericus58

The Palestinians have Gaza - from which they've wasted an opportunity to show a functioning government and the ability to live in peace next to Israel.

The West Bank attacks have only stopped due to a wall built by Israel, not due to the Palestinians diplomacy or peace initiatives (has there been a Palestinian Peace Initiative?).

What Peace Initiatives have been started and followed through from the Arab countries in the Region? What governments have set forth equal-status policy initiatives, with recognition of Israel?

Well, there is the "Saudi Peace Initiative" from 2002, but it includes a complete retreat to the 1949 cease-fire lines, the expulsion of 500,000 Jews, and a "Right of Return" for 5 million Palestinians into what is left of Israel.

184 Ojoe  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:30:24am

re: #178 Jeff In Ohio

I don't know what church that is, maybe a lizard more local to the event can say.

185 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:30:31am

re: #177 jordash1212

Can those of you who think it's so easy for moderate Muslims to just come out and stand with one another and denounce their radical counterparts explain your reasoning?

I really shouldn't comment on religion in general.
I'm unfair.
I'm completely biased.
I can get all militant atheist and shit.

186 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:30:45am

re: #174 Ojoe

Why not?

Doesn't seem like there would be many moderate muslims at LGF who:
1. can take up the appeal with their local mosques
2. can supply the needed input for rational discussion on what that appeal might look like if they were to take it to their mosque.

187 tnguitarist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:30:48am

re: #179 Spare O'Lake

Bullshit. And by the way, why don't they start by denouncing American Islamist extremists i.e. clean their own house right at home in America?

Because it's not their damn job to. Each and every person is responsible for themselves. You know, that 'personal responsibility' stuff that you guys go on about?

188 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:30:49am

re: #172 Jeff In Ohio

You posted an appeal to moderate muslims on LGF?

Why?

Why not?
Maybe they read LGF.
It's also good for other folks to see.

189 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:31:14am

re: #159 Buck


Are you aware of the counter protests that occur every time Phelps and his perverts gather? For example the one at Comic Con? Who were those people?

A wide variety of different people, including a lot of atheists.

The point is: Right now, we have extremist Christian politicans in the US actually getting legislation passed, like the wonderful bill to re-rape rape victims in Oklahoma. These Christians are not only not repudiated by many of their fellow Christians, but elected to office.

Now, I don't assume that a moderate Christian bears any responsibility for those people, because they are, well, a moderate Christian. I do assume that extremists hate moderates of their own faith too-- which is true.

Al-queda would love to blow up the Sufi Park51 project. That a lot of people are trying to stop it from being built must be endlessly amusing to those fanatics.

Stop the building of a community center for moderate Muslims, the Imam of which has supported Israel, while at the same time prosecuting a war in Afghanistan that depends on working with more conservative Muslims.

What an insane thing.

190 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:31:54am

re: #184 Ojoe

I don't know what church that is, maybe a lizard more local to the event can say.

Buck's post implies he knows, which is why I asked him.

191 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:31:59am

re: #176 Ericus58

As I said, Palestinian terror is another outburst of frustration with their leadership, Arab leadership, Israeli existence, and frustration over quiescence. Expecting other Arab countries to help Palestinians just won't happen. With that in mind, what other Arab countries do with respect to the Palestinian peace process is largely irrelevant. The Palestinians regard the Arabs just above the Israelis.

192 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:32:01am

re: #182 NJDhockeyfan

What a nice Muslim leader they have in Saudi Arabia...

Saudi Cleric Muhammad Al-Arifi: The Desire to Shed Blood, Smash Skulls, and Sever Limbs for the Sake of Allah Is an Honor for the Believer

Damn. That is some full metal jacket religious wacko going on there.

193 Ojoe  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:32:03am

re: #177 jordash1212

Courage would be required.

194 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:32:15am

re: #177 jordash1212

Can those of you who think it's so easy for moderate Muslims to just come out and stand with one another and denounce their radical counterparts explain your reasoning?

Who said it was easy?
I said it was necessary.

195 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:32:22am

re: #180 Alouette

We've come full circle.

196 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:33:02am

re: #163 Spare O'Lake

That's nice. Instead of actually arguing points on their merits, just call your opponents 'simps' and tell them they've been programmed.

You're classy.

197 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:33:36am

re: #189 Obdicut


Right now, we have extremist Christian politicans in the US actually getting legislation passed, like the wonderful bill to re-rape rape victims in Oklahoma.

Holy crap! You got a link? That sounds fucked up.

198 Buck  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:33:46am

re: #167 Jeff In Ohio

Comic-con? That was an organized Christian response to Phelps? Yelling "What do we want" "Gay Sex!" "When do we want it?" "Now!"

Which church is that, I want to go.

Were people asking for an organized mosque response? Or were they asking for moderate muslims to speak up?

I support the less organized, and grassroots response. Comic Con was just one example. Every Phelps gathering has been counter protested. Moderate Christians, if you will, who cannot stand by and allow his voice to be the only one heard.

199 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:35:08am

re: #187 tnguitarist

Because it's not their damn job to. Each and every person is responsible for themselves. You know, that 'personal responsibility' stuff that you guys go on about?

Do you realize how pathetic you sound?

200 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:35:47am

re: #197 NJDhockeyfan

Holy crap! You got a link? That sounds fucked up.

It's been discussed on here quite frequently. It's the bill requiring that women-- including rape victims-- seeking abortion be shown an ultrasound of the fetus and have it described to them in detail. It mandates the best imaging technique be used-- for those in early pregnancy (i.e. when they would be getting an abortion) that would be a vaginal wand.

So the bill mandates that rape victims who want to have an abortion have their vaginas penetrated again, so that self-righteous mysogynists can make them feel guilty about wanting an abortion.

It is indeed, fucked up.

201 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:35:50am

re: #194 Spare O'Lake

Try impossible. The allegiances aren't there. Not all Muslims are Arab-Muslims are Arab. I could have sworn I saw the word monolithic pop up earlier.

202 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:36:23am

re: #196 Obdicut

That's nice. Instead of actually arguing points on their merits, just call your opponents 'simps' and tell them they've been programmed.

You're classy.

Read my substantive posts and reply to them or not.
Otherwise, buzz off.

203 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:36:31am

re: #198 Buck

Why are you pretending the ComiCon protest was a bunch of moderate Christians, instead of a wide variety of people?

204 tnguitarist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:36:40am

re: #199 Spare O'Lake

Do you realize how pathetic you sound?

Please explain. Call me a name in the process, it will help your cause.

205 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:36:49am

re: #197 NJDhockeyfan

Holy crap! You got a link? That sounds fucked up.

The Oklahoma State Legislature is playing doctor again. Last year they dictated how specialists at the University of Oklahoma Health Sciences Center may care for pregnant women who have medical complications. This week, despite intense lobbying efforts and the Governor’s veto, the legislature passed Senate Bill 1878, which mandates invasive and unnecessary medical testing for women.

Under the guise of obtaining informed patient consent, this new law requires doctors to withhold pregnancy termination until an ultrasound is performed. The law states that either an abdominal or vaginal ultrasound, whichever gives the best image of the fetus, must be done. Neither the patient nor the doctor can decide which type of ultrasound to use, and the patient cannot opt out of the ultrasound and still have the procedure. In effect, then, the legislature has mandated that a woman have an instrument placed in her vagina for no medical benefit. The law makes no exception for victims of rape and incest.

By existing law, women already must be told where to find information about fetal development and referred to locations for a free ultrasound before a termination can be scheduled.

[Link: www.alternet.org...]

206 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:37:03am

Muslims denounce terror in Mumbai

Youtube Video
208 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:37:24am

re: #201 jordash1212

Try impossible. The allegiances aren't there. Not all Muslims are Arab-Muslims are Arab. I could have sworn I saw the word monolithic pop up earlier.

I haven't written them off, like you obviously have.

209 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:37:30am

re: #188 Spare O'Lake

Why not?
Maybe they read LGF.
It's also good for other folks to see.

I guess if the purpose is to blanket an appeal to moderate muslims, the thing to do would be to post it where they do read and get a good gauge on what their problem with denouncing extremism in the mosque.

210 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:38:00am

re: #202 Spare O'Lake

You don't have any substantiative posts.

Can you explain why extremist Muslims would listen to moderate Muslims that they consider to be apostate anyway?

211 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:38:11am

Muslims Denounce Terrorism

Vimeo
212 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:38:57am
re: #210 Obdicut

You don't have any substantiative posts.

Fuck off.

214 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:39:27am

re: #203 Obdicut

Why are you pretending the ComiCon protest was a bunch of moderate Christians, instead of a wide variety of people?

Because moderate Christians are in favor of gay sex now.

215 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:39:44am

Muslim Leaders Denounce Terrorism on YouTube

216 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:40:19am

re: #207 Gus 802

Ahmadiyya Muslim leaders denounce Times Square bomb scare

Yes, but they need to denounce the violence and not just denounce the violence because they have to denounce the violence so we believe they denounce the violence.

Oh, and for the record, I don't think Sparrow believes such a thing as a 'moderate muslim' exists.

217 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:40:25am

re: #189 Obdicut

A wide variety of different people, including a lot of atheists.

The point is: Right now, we have extremist Christian politicans in the US actually getting legislation passed, like the wonderful bill to re-rape rape victims in Oklahoma. These Christians are not only not repudiated by many of their fellow Christians, but elected to office.

Now, I don't assume that a moderate Christian bears any responsibility for those people, because they are, well, a moderate Christian. I do assume that extremists hate moderates of their own faith too-- which is true.

Al-queda would love to blow up the Sufi Park51 project. That a lot of people are trying to stop it from being built must be endlessly amusing to those fanatics.

Stop the building of a community center for moderate Muslims, the Imam of which has supported Israel, while at the same time prosecuting a war in Afghanistan that depends on working with more conservative Muslims.

What an insane thing.

The politics of fear.

If the two extremist sides of Islam and Christianity didn't have each other to riff off of and point at as the "Other" to watch out for you'd think that the more manipulative segments of each would have to create it.

218 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:40:28am

re: #211 Gus 802

And in response to all that, Al-Queda says, "We'll get you too, Cutty."

It's like people forget all the bombs going off in Iraq that kill other Muslims, Shi'ite on Sufi violence, the whole Iran-Iraq war, just so they can lambast moderate Muslims for somehow not affecting the views of people who hate them.

Weird, weird, weird.

219 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:40:30am

re: #210 Obdicut

You don't have any substantiative posts.

Can you explain why extremist Muslims would listen to moderate Muslims that they consider to be apostate anyway?

Good question.

Another issue is that there is simply no organization or hierarchy in Islam as you would find in most church denominations. There are "schools of thought", but no real way to enforce how the religion is interpreted.

220 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:41:05am

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

221 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:41:15am

re: #208 Spare O'Lake

I haven't written them off. I've written off this idea that all of a sudden the silent majority will rush into the streets and pull the extremists from their houses and kick them out. It's so much more complicated than that. Within the sects, tribes, cities, governments, and states there can be efforts made. More than anything it takes time, more education, less war, less intolerance.

222 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:41:32am

re: #212 Spare O'Lake

Try explaining why extremist Muslims would listen to moderate Muslims when they consider them apostate.

Does the Catholic Church spend a lot of time listening to the opinion of the Society of Friends?

223 tnguitarist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:41:38am

re: #212 Spare O'Lake

Are Gus's videos good enough for you, or would you like every Muslim to send you a personal note? Somehow, I think it doesn't matter what any of them say. You will move on to a new outrage.

224 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:41:42am

re: #216 darthstar

re: #218 Obdicut

Or if they do denounce it's a plot!!11ty

225 Taqyia2Me  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:41:55am

re: #181 oaktree

Have you tried Bud Light Wheat? Not bad stuff...
My lovely wife is growing her own cilantro, basil, thyme and oregano for just the reasons you mentioned..

226 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:42:12am

"Dr" Azzam Tamimi Declares Support For Terrorism


Azzam Tamimi, often paraded by the BBC and other British news outlets as a moderate Muslim calls for the eradication of Israel and declares his support for Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and Hamas.
227 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:42:54am

re: #215 Gus 802

Good job. They need to clean house right at home in America in their own mosques and boot out the extremists and haters who parade as their spokespersons.

228 [deleted]  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:43:49am
229 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:43:59am

re: #226 NJDhockeyfan

"Dr" Azzam Tamimi Declares Support For Terrorism

American Muslim Leaders Condemn Attacks
American Muslims Denouncing Terrorism
American Muslims and Scholars Denounce Terrorism on Anniversary of 9/11
Australian Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attack
Bin Laden Distorts Islam, Islamic Scholars Say
Bin Laden's Idea of 'Jihad' is Out of Bounds, Islamic Scholars Say
British Muslim leaders condemn terrorism
British Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
Canadian Muslims Condemn Terorist Attacks
Islamic Statements Against Terrorism in the Wake of the September 11 Mass Murders
Islamic World Deplores U.S. Losses
Looking for Answers in Islam's Holy Book: What Islamic Scholars Have to Say
Muslim Reactions to Sept 11
Muslim Voices Against Extremism & Terrorism - Part II - Statements by Organizations
Muslim World Condemns Attacks on U.S.
Muslim rulers condemn WTC attacks
New Zealand Muslims Condemn Terrorism
Organization of the Islamic Conference Foreign Ministers Condemn International Terrorism
Quran a Book of Peace Not War, Islamic Scholars Say
Scholars of Islam Condemn Terrorism
Some American Muslims Take a Look at Their Communities' Shortcomings
U.S. Muslim Scholars Condemn Attacks
UK Muslim Leaders Condemn 'Lunatic Fringe'

230 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:44:23am

O/T, but we are discussing religion...

If you have Starz, check out The Pillars Of The Earth on Friday nights. This is what quality TV should be.

Fantastic historical drama.

231 Ericus58  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:44:49am

re: #183 Alouette

Well, there is the "Saudi Peace Initiative" from 2002, but it includes a complete retreat to the 1949 cease-fire lines, the expulsion of 500,000 Jews, and a "Right of Return" for 5 million Palestinians into what is left of Israel.

And which was so out-of-balanced that it was a non-starter at inception.
I know you and others understand this. Perhaps not everyone here does though.

232 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:44:52am

re: #228 Spare O'Lake

You little disingenuous lying scumbag. Go fuck yourself.

Who do you think is going to be impressed by tantrums like this?

Can you explain why extremist Muslims would listen to moderate Muslims, when they consider them to be apostates?

233 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:45:54am

Falwell and Robertson on why 9/11 happened.

JERRY FALWELL: And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say "you helped this happen."

PAT ROBERTSON: Well, I totally concur, and the problem is we have adopted that agenda at the highest levels of our government. And so we're responsible as a free society for what the top people do. And, the top people, of course, is the court system.

234 Ojoe  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:45:55am

re: #232 Obdicut

Can you explain why extremist Muslims would listen to moderate Muslims, when they consider them to be apostates?

There's the rub.

BBL

235 Buck  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:46:14am

re: #203 Obdicut

Why are you pretending the ComiCon protest was a bunch of moderate Christians, instead of a wide variety of people?

Fine, I guess we need moderate christians to wear a yellow cross now? Are you positive there were none? Was I saying that they were only?

Another example,

Phelps and his church are being sued by a service members father regarding the churches protest at the funeral.

The court has asked the father to PAY for Phelps costs. Bill O'Reilly stood up and wrote the check.

You might think of Catholic Bill O'Reilly as moderate, or maybe an extremist. I am not sure.

However he, and those around him are very clear about how they are against Phelps and everything he represents.

236 deranged cat  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:47:12am

some mad trollin' this morning. and yesterday. and the day before that actually.

238 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:47:32am

re: #228 Spare O'Lake

You little disingenuous lying scumbag. Go fuck yourself.

Give it a rest, Spare. Disengage from the keyboard, get a coke or something and breathe for a bit. Find something pleasant and stimulating to do. You are really angry and you are saying things well out of proportion to what is directed at you.

It's just a conversation about nothing we can affect anyway. This does not matter. Keep that in perspective.

239 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:47:42am

re: #232 Obdicut

Who do you think is going to be impressed by tantrums like this?

Can you explain why extremist Muslims would listen to moderate Muslims, when they consider them to be apostates?

They can do it if they organize and force the issue.

240 jordash1212  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:48:27am

re: #231 Ericus58

Do you even read what I said? That deal was never serious and you can disregard any Arab country claiming to represent the Palestinians because it's more than likely just a political facade. The truth being that they don't care about the Palestinian cause. So pointing to Arab disingenuousness doesn't mean anything here.

241 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:48:41am

re: #238 celticdragon

Give it a rest, Spare. Disengage from the keyboard, get a coke or something and breathe for a bit. Find something pleasant and stimulating to do. You are really angry and you are saying things well out of proportion to what is directed at you.

It's just a conversation about nothing we can affect anyway. This does not matter. Keep that in perspective.

True.
BBL.

242 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:48:52am

re: #225 Taqyia2Me

Have you tried Bud Light Wheat? Not bad stuff...
My lovely wife is growing her own cilantro, basil, thyme and oregano for just the reasons you mentioned..

Haven't had that yet, but I might be willing to give it a try and I like wheat beers.

I've started growing my own herbs in window boxes in order to get them fresh in manageable amounts. And to ensure quality as well since the cilantro in the local produce stores I've checked was somewhat mediocre.

I have discovered that rosemary freezes pretty well. Someone here mentioned doing parsley as a sort of "ice cube" in order to prevent freezer burn and I'm experimenting with that.

Two of the more interesting foodstuffs that turned up from my trip were "pickle" related. Bread and butter jalapeno peppers are now being produced by my friend (and are for sale commercially). And another friend I met in Ohio has a family recipe that preps green beans and then pickles them with dill to make something like a crisp dill pickled bean. I might have to see how that would work out.

243 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:48:57am

Lol.
And some wonder how I could possibly be an atheist.
XD

244 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:49:03am

Hundreds of Muslims attend anti-terror summer camp

By Julie Jammot (AFP) – 2 days ago

COVENTRY, England — "Follow the Prophet Mohammed, don't follow bin Laden!" That was the message from an anti-terrorism summer camp led by a top scholar which attracted hundreds of young Muslims this week.

Al-Hidayah (The Guidance) was led by Dr Muhammad Tahir-ul-Qadri, who earlier this year issued a fatwa, or religious ruling, against terrorism.

His message to the roughly 1,300 people attending the three-day event on a university campus in Coventry, was clear -- terrorism is anti-Islamic.

And it was welcomed by members of the British Muslim community, which has been in the spotlight since the July 7, 2005 suicide attacks on London's public transport system killed 52 innocent people, plus the four young British Muslim extremists who blew themselves up.

"The thing he said about terrorism is a big thing to say," Anam Nazir, a young woman who attended the event, told AFP.

Continues.

246 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:49:59am

re: #245 NJDhockeyfan

"We Pray To Allah That We Be Terrorists" - Sheikh Wagdy Ghoneim on Al-Aqsa TV

Yeah, you're just going to sit there and keep posting links from the extremists to counter the argument.

247 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:50:24am

Some people just don't want peace. And it includes those in the West.

248 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:50:48am

re: #243 Varek Raith

Lol.
And some wonder how I could possibly be an atheist.
XD

I don't. It's a rational position.

249 SilentAlfa  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:51:25am
I posted an appeal for Muslim to stand up and boot out their loons before it's too late. Some PC folks around here found that objectionable because they have been programmed to spend ALL their time blaming the GOP and the Christian extremists.

Why are you assuming that Muslim-Americans don't confront radicalists?

250 Jeff In Ohio  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:51:34am

re: #246 Gus 802

What argument?

251 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:51:48am

re: #235 Buck

Fine, I guess we need moderate christians to wear a yellow cross now? Are you positive there were none? Was I saying that they were only?

The 'yellow cross' statement is an incredibly offensive reference to the yellow star that Jews have been forced to wear. Given that I am obviously fine with moderate Christians, this is really stupid of you to say.

I did not say there were no moderate Christians-- why are you lying and saying that I said there were none?

And yes, by citing counter-protests to Phelps in the context of a discussion of moderates in a faith reaction to extremists, you were claiming it was moderate Christians. If not, then your statement makes no sense whatsoever.

You might think of Catholic Bill O'Reilly as moderate, or maybe an extremist. I am not sure.

However he, and those around him are very clear about how they are against Phelps and everything he represents.

Again, I'm not making any claim that there aren't Christians who protest Phelps. There are. What I asked was why you were pretending the group at ComiCon was moderate Christians instead of a mix of people.

In addition, I'd now ask you why you lied and claimed I said there were no Christians in that group.

Can you explain why you lied?

252 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:52:06am

re: #244 Gus 802

Hundreds of Muslims attend anti-terror summer camp

Cool...but it is disturbing nonetheless that radicalism is so prevalent among young Muslims that you have to have an "anti terror summer camp". Yeesh.

253 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:52:26am

re: #250 Jeff In Ohio

What argument?

That there are moderate Muslims and Muslim leaders opposing terrorism.

254 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:53:04am

re: #239 Spare O'Lake

They can do it if they organize and force the issue.

Heh. Can you explain why the extremist Muslims would listen to the moderate Muslims when they consider them to be apostate?

You see, you didn't answer my question.

I mean, consider Saudi Arabia, where the religious police beat women they consider to be insufficiently fervent and modest. Do you think they give a shit what some American Imam says to them about the practice of Islam?

256 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:53:21am

re: #252 celticdragon

Cool...but it is disturbing nonetheless that radicalism is so prevalent among young Muslims that you have to have an "anti terror summer camp". Yeesh.

Yeah. That's just the way it is I guess.

257 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:53:35am

re: #254 Obdicut

Heh. Can you explain why the extremist Muslims would listen to the moderate Muslims when they consider them to be apostate?

You see, you didn't answer my question.

I mean, consider Saudi Arabia, where the religious police beat women they consider to be insufficiently fervent and modest. Do you think they give a shit what some American Imam says to them about the practice of Islam?

True, dat.

258 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:55:02am

re: #255 NJDhockeyfan

Muslim Cleric Challenges Darwin: We Are Descendants of Human Beings, Jews Brothers of Apes and Pigs

We get the picture. To be fair, I can come up with lots of fucked up things from extremist Christians with a few mouse clicks.

259 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:55:17am

re: #252 celticdragon

Cool...but it is disturbing nonetheless that radicalism is so prevalent among young Muslims that you have to have an "anti terror summer camp". Yeesh.

Here's some video of the summer camp in Egypt...

"Kill The Jews!" Muslim Children Memorize and Recite Antisemitic Messages on Egyptian TV Channel

260 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:56:30am

re: #259 NJDhockeyfan

Here's some video of the summer camp in Egypt...

"Kill The Jews!" Muslim Children Memorize and Recite Antisemitic Messages on Egyptian TV Channel

What summer camp? Clearly that video has nothing to do with the summer camp in England I just mentioned.

261 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:56:36am

re: #255 NJDhockeyfan

You are aware that nobody is claiming that there aren't Muslim radicals, right?

There are tons of Muslim radicals. There are countries that are effectively semi-theocracies run by Muslim radicals.

The question is why should any moderate Muslim, who simply by virtue of being a moderate Muslim is placing themselves in a position that these extremists hate, be held accountable in any way for the actions, speech, thoughts, whatever of the extremists?

What influence do the moderates have on the extremists?

262 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:57:25am

re: #258 celticdragon

We get the picture. To be fair, I can come up with lots of fucked up things from extremist Christians with a few mouse clicks.

Not like that. There are tons of videos like the ones I posted. I have never heard a preacher say anything close to what these animals are teaching and saying.

263 SilentAlfa  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:58:53am

re: #252 celticdragon

Cool...but it is disturbing nonetheless that radicalism is so prevalent among young Muslims that you have to have an "anti terror summer camp". Yeesh.

It would seem to me that it's a pretty self-destructive cycle we have going on here. Why are there young Muslims who turn to radicalism? Because they live in a society where they turn on the local news and see stories about "terrorbabies" and protests against Islam and reverends who say there is a War on Islam. And so if you see that there is a war specifically against Muslims, then as a Muslim, shouldn't you defend yourself? And then why do people hate Muslims? Because there are terrorists who are Muslims.

I'm not defending terrorism, but I think it's extremely important for us to understand why people become terrorists. How can we defeat terrorism unless we defeat the root cause? Obviously it cannot be defeated on the battlefield, it's an idea and not an army.

264 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:59:04am

re: #228 Spare O'Lake

You little disingenuous lying scumbag. Go fuck yourself.

I'd upding you for originality, but I don't reward projection.

265 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:59:07am

re: #262 NJDhockeyfan

I have. What's more, I've heard US politicans who are Christians pass a law mandating that rape victims seeking abortions get re-raped in order to do it.

Can you understand why a lot of people are far more concerned about the extremist Christians who have actual influence in the US, rather than extremist Muslims who do not?

266 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:59:15am

re: #262 NJDhockeyfan

Not like that. There are tons of videos like the ones I posted. I have never heard a preacher say anything close to what these animals are teaching and saying.

You find this more offensive than "Thank God for Dead Soldiers?"

267 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 8:59:21am

re: #259 NJDhockeyfan

Here's some video of the summer camp in Egypt...

"Kill The Jews!" Muslim Children Memorize and Recite Antisemitic Messages on Egyptian TV Channel

Yes, I know about those "camps" in Egypt, Gaza and Jordan etc etc.

How do you propose that Moderate Muslims (who have a real life to lead btw) call out radicals who subscribe to a very different interpretation of Islam? What difference has it made when they did so in the past? Does the very action of "calling them out" give the radicals even more legitimacy since you acknowledge their influence?

268 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:01:46am

re: #261 Obdicut

You are aware that nobody is claiming that there aren't Muslim radicals, right?

There are tons of Muslim radicals. There are countries that are effectively semi-theocracies run by Muslim radicals.

The question is why should any moderate Muslim, who simply by virtue of being a moderate Muslim is placing themselves in a position that these extremists hate, be held accountable in any way for the actions, speech, thoughts, whatever of the extremists?

What influence do the moderates have on the extremists?

Sure there are moderate muslims speaking against terrorism and anti-Semitism but they are few and far between. The radicals seem to be everywhere preaching hate. When will we see hundreds of muslims out on the street demanding the radicals to get out of their religion? I only see them in the streets when there is a cartoon they are offended by or a bullshit story about a koran flushed down a toilet.

269 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:02:55am

re: #268 NJDhockeyfan

What is your point? Nobody is arguing there aren't lots of radical Muslims, or even that Islam has a huge problem with extremism.

However, they are not getting legislation passed based on their extremism. Radical Christians are, here in the US.

Do you understand that?

270 Buck  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:03:05am

re: #251 Obdicut

Again, I'm not making any claim that there aren't Christians who protest Phelps. There are. What I asked was why you were pretending the group at ComiCon was moderate Christians instead of a mix of people.

In addition, I'd now ask you why you lied and claimed I said there were no Christians in that group.

Can you explain why you lied?

OK, let us try again. I never made the claim that the group at comic con were not a mix of people. Only that I believed moderate christians were there. I could not prove it though, but I really don't think it is necessary
to prove it.

I never said that you said there were no moderate christians. I think that is a lie. You are trying to pick a fight, and I will NOT bite.

The entire point I am trying to make is that there are (I suppose I have to add the word 'some') moderate christians at counter protests when Phelps is gathering. It was to counter the comment by Varek Raith, who said "I hardly see any calls from Christians to stop this."

I see many calls from christians to stop Phelps, and his ilk. And I gave specific examples.

Have you ever seen a counter protest, with (not organized) muslims at (for example only) an Israel Apartheid week? Do you think that happens?

271 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:03:52am

And when one does point out the moderate Muslims all you'll get is someone that will still point out the extremists.

On a related note one has to wonder what would have been the response had this man been Muslim or from a Muslim nation.

272 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:04:50am

re: #266 JasonA

You find this more offensive than "Thank God for Dead Soldiers?"

"Thank God for Dead Soldiers?" comes from one fucked up family that is an obvious joke. Everyone knows that.

273 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:05:36am

re: #270 Buck

I never said that you said there were no moderate christians. I think that is a lie. You are trying to pick a fight, and I will NOT bite.

Why did you ask me if I was positive there were none, then?

That clearly says that I was saying there were none. When you ask someone "Are you positive?", it means you're saying they hold that position.

If you can't actually admit when you've lied, you really need to take a moment to think about what you're willing to do in order to promote your argument.

274 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:06:33am

re: #269 Obdicut

What is your point? Nobody is arguing there aren't lots of radical Muslims, or even that Islam has a huge problem with extremism.

However, they are not getting legislation passed based on their extremism. Radical Christians are, here in the US.

Do you understand that?

No, they are blowing shit up and killing people all over the place every fucking day.

275 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:06:54am

re: #272 NJDhockeyfan

"Thank God for Dead Soldiers?" comes from one fucked up family that is an obvious joke. Everyone knows that.

They're radical Christians. And it's no joke.

276 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:07:58am

re: #274 NJDhockeyfan

No, they are blowing shit up and killing people all over the place every fucking day.

Yes. And nobody is arguing otherwise.

So what's your point?

Do you understand that radical Christians are actually getting legislation passed enshrining their religious beliefs into law, in the US, and radical Muslims are not?

You've now dodged that question multiple times. Why?

277 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:08:28am

Right.

So maybe a good step toward fighting against the radicals in Islam would be NOT TO DEMONIZE MUSLIMS, and not to lie about, smear, and distort the words of people like Imam Feisal Rauf.

The right wing's treatment of this man is beyond disgusting.

278 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:08:52am

re: #262 NJDhockeyfan

Not like that. There are tons of videos like the ones I posted. I have never heard a preacher say anything close to what these animals are teaching and saying.

You refer to Muslims as 'animals' and yet take offense at their extremists' rhetoric? Here's an internet challenge for you...take as much time as you want: Find something positive about Muslims using the sites you normally visit. Then ask yourself why you only post negative crap.

279 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:09:12am

We have to have the most of everything...

More cancer-causing agents in U.S. cigarettes

Americans inhale more cancer-causing agents with their cigarettes, probably because of the tobacco blend, while smokers in Canada, Britain and Australia get less, U.S. researchers reported on Tuesday.
280 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:09:14am

re: #275 JasonA

They're radical Christians. And it's no joke.

They are that but they haven't physically hurt anyone yet. They are look at as crazy idiots by everyone else. Is that all you have to compare radical Islamists to radical Christians?

281 deranged cat  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:09:34am

"everyone knows that" is a bullshit defense. i didn't know that. what i did know is that people (associated with the Westboro Church) were protesting at a funeral because they believed dead soldiers was God's way of punishing the US for tolerating homosexuality.

282 albusteve  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:10:14am

Islam is coming to America, not in a trickle over a long period of time, but a stepped up migration sooner or later....there will be radicals in the mix....Mosques will spring up and there is little to do about it...the US is a prized destination for immigrants from all over the world...we have to deal with it and all we have is the rule of law....another reason to secure our borders, at least then we might know who is coming in

283 tnguitarist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:10:47am

re: #274 NJDhockeyfan

No, they are blowing shit up and killing people all over the place every fucking day.

So, what is your solution? You probably have a idea of what you would like to see happen. What course of action should we take?

284 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:11:24am

re: #280 NJDhockeyfan

They are that but they haven't physically hurt anyone yet. They are look at as crazy idiots by everyone else. Is that all you have to compare radical Islamists to radical Christians?

Hate is hate, NJD. And honestly, to say that moderate Muslims need to speak up louder kind of dismisses the fact that our media doesn't really care about reporting what they have to say in the first place.

285 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:11:37am

re: #278 darthstar

You refer to Muslims as 'animals' and yet take offense at their extremists' rhetoric? Here's an internet challenge for you...take as much time as you want: Find something positive about Muslims using the sites you normally visit. Then ask yourself why you only post negative crap.

I'm referring to the radical Islamic preachers as animals. Don't mince my words.

I have also had muslim friends all my life so don't accuse me of anything like that. You have no idea.

286 Buck  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:11:53am

re: #273 Obdicut

Why did you ask me if I was positive there were none, then?

That clearly says that I was saying there were none. When you ask someone "Are you positive?", it means you're saying they hold that position.

If you can't actually admit when you've lied, you really need to take a moment to think about what you're willing to do in order to promote your argument.

Out of context. I said "Are you positive there were none? Was I saying that they were only?" Two extremes. I didn't say there were only.

You started this nonsensical argument when you inferred that I was somehow saying that I was saying the Comic con counter protest was ONLY moderate christians. Which I never did, and was seriously off topic anyway.

Again, you are trying to distract me from what I am trying to say.

287 tnguitarist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:12:01am

re: #282 albusteve

we have to deal with it and all we have is the rule of law

What else would you like us to have?

288 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:12:21am

re: #268 NJDhockeyfan

Sure there are moderate muslims speaking against terrorism and anti-Semitism but they are few and far between. The radicals seem to be everywhere preaching hate. When will we see hundreds of muslims out on the street demanding the radicals to get out of their religion? I only see them in the streets when there is a cartoon they are offended by or a bullshit story about a koran flushed down a toilet.

I really, really dislike wading into this, but the moderates get knee capped by the radicals every time the Palestinian thing comes up and some horrible picture of a decapitated kid in Gaza makes the airwaves. (the fact that the poor kid and the family were being used as shield by guerrillas doesn't get mentioned...)The radicals get a huge bloody shirt to wave as they scream about infidel Great Satan America selling the bombs to Israel. (Dead Jewish kids in Israel don't get the same airplay in Arab media. Go figure. But we don't cry as many tears in America about dead Palestinian kids either. It sucks, but that is how it is.)

As long as the radicals can make a case that America and the West are pursuing an existential religious war and are using Israel as a proxy, the moderates will always be marginalized...and the same damn thing is starting to happen in our own politics right here.

289 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:14:18am

Needing a light hearted chat, I think I jumped in at the wrong time. It's cool. I can lurk. And Good afternoon Honcos.

290 Gus  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:14:25am

Ugandan Rebel Group Accused of Mass Abductions, Killings
VOA News 12 August 2010

An international rights organization says Ugandan rebel group the Lord's Resistance Army is responsible for nearly 700 abductions and more than 250 killings in the past 18 months.

In a report Thursday, Human Rights Watch said the LRA systematically abducted children and adults from the nearby Central African Republic and Democratic Republic of Congo. The rights group says children were forced to act as soldiers and used as sex slaves by LRA fighters.

The report adds at least 255 adults and children were killed by the LRA, often by crushing their skulls with clubs. It also says the LRA forced captive children to kill other children and adults.

Human Rights Watch says the abductions began in early 2009 with LRA fighters usually attacking villages early in the morning or late in the day when residents were likely to be at home.

Continues.

From Wiki:

The Lord's Resistance Army (also Lord's Resistance Movement or Lakwena Part Two) is a sectarian religious and military group based in northern Uganda.

The group was formed in 1987 and is engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government in what is now one of Africa's longest-running conflicts. It is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the "spokesperson" of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the Holy Spirit, which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations.

The group is based in apocalyptic Christianity, but also is influenced by a blend of Mysticism and traditional religion, and claims to be establishing a theocratic state based on the Ten Commandments and Acholi tradition.

From Global Secuirty:

In particular, the LRA abducted numerous children and, at clandestine bases, terrorized them into virtual slavery as guards, concubines, and soldiers. In addition to being beaten, raped, and forced to march until exhausted, abducted children were forced to participate in the killing of other children who had attempted to escape. Amnesty International reported that without child abductions, the LRA would have few combatants. More than 6,000 children were abducted during 1998, although many of those abducted later escaped or were released. Most human rights NGOs placed the number of abducted children held captive by the LRA at around 3,000, although estimates varied substantially.

291 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:14:26am

re: #280 NJDhockeyfan

They are that but they haven't physically hurt anyone yet. They are look at as crazy idiots by everyone else. Is that all you have to compare radical Islamists to radical Christians?

The murdered family planning clinic doctors and bomb-burned nurses would like to have a word with you.

292 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:14:41am

re: #289 Cannadian Club Akbar

Needing a light hearted chat, I think I jumped in at the wrong time. It's cool. I can lurk. And Good afternoon Honcos.

How's your day going CCA?

293 albusteve  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:14:55am

re: #287 tnguitarist

What else would you like us to have?

that is enough and we have to abide by it...the Park51 mosque seems to have turned into some kind of litmus and it's really disappointing to see such a trumped up negative reaction to it...it's legal and harmless, and must be built

294 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:15:03am

re: #286 Buck

Out of context. I said "Are you positive there were none? Was I saying that they were only?" Two extremes. I didn't say there were only.

Thank you for admitting that you accused me of having said there were no Christians, and that that was a lie on your part.

Again: Your argument makes no sense unless you were saying the counterprotesters against Phelps were moderate Christians. I'm sure some of them were. Given that Gus has already posted shitloads of Muslims protesting against radical Islam, your point is pretty much non-existent-- in context.

Now, I know that, for example, the Southern Baptists don't give a shit about what the Catholic Church believes on any topic, and vice versa. What's important is the repudiation of the extremists positions, not the extremists. And we do have a lot of examples of Muslims doing that-- including the Imam of Park51, who has stated he supports Israel.

295 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:15:52am

re: #292 ShaunP

How's your day going CCA?

My cell phone died. It is charging now.

296 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:16:57am

re: #295 Cannadian Club Akbar

My cell phone died. It is charging now.

I spent the better part of this morning fixing an issue with the anti-virus on my work computer. Not a virus, but definitely a PITA!

297 cliffster  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:17:05am

Good morning, lizards.. well, at least the ones for whom it's still morning.

298 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:17:12am

re: #291 celticdragon

The murdered family planning clinic doctors and bomb-burned nurses would like to have a word with you.

That murderer was linked to Phelps? I didn't know that.

299 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:17:39am

re: #296 ShaunP

The way a lot of anti-virus programs work is kind of indistinguishable from some classes of viruses. They prevent the computer from operating the way I want it to.

300 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:18:40am

re: #298 NJDhockeyfan

That murderer was linked to Phelps? I didn't know that.

You said that Phelps is the only example of radical christians. Celtic dragon gave you more examples. He/she (sorry CD) wasn't saying that it was Phelps' doing...

301 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:19:22am

re: #300 ShaunP

You said that Phelps is the only example of radical christians. Celtic dragon gave you more examples. He/she (sorry CD) wasn't saying that it was Phelps' doing...

OK, gotcha.

302 cliffster  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:19:49am

I am very objective. I object to everything.

303 aurelius  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:20:17am

indeed.. just about everything in life is a virus, in fact. ;)

meditate.. it's the only real antivirus out there.


re: #299 Obdicut

The way a lot of anti-virus programs work is kind of indistinguishable from some classes of viruses. They prevent the computer from operating the way I want it to.

304 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:20:18am

If a member of the Park 51 development project held up this sign, it would be all over. Done. Kaput.

305 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:20:19am

re: #302 cliffster

I am very objective. I object to everything.

I object to that!

/

306 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:20:26am

re: #302 cliffster

Just as long as you object to Objectivism.

307 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:20:27am

re: #302 cliffster

I am very objective. I object to everything.

I object to that.
/

308 tnguitarist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:20:47am

re: #298 NJDhockeyfan

That murderer was linked to Phelps? I didn't know that.

Do you not see what you're doing? On the Christian side, you require that the act be linked to a specific person, but on the 'other' side all you require is that they be Muslims.

309 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:20:57am

re: #305 NJDhockeyfan

I object to that!

/

I owe you a coke.

310 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:21:44am

re: #285 NJDhockeyfan

I'm referring to the radical Islamic preachers as animals. Don't mince my words.

I have also had muslim friends all my life so don't accuse me of anything like that. You have no idea.

Ah, the "I've had muslim friends" argument...sweet. I wasn't accusing you of anything, by the way...merely quoting your own words back to you. Sorry if you found your own rhetoric offensive. But I do appreciate your defensiveness.

311 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:22:09am

re: #309 Cannadian Club Akbar

I owe you a coke.

Classic please...in a bottle. :)

312 albusteve  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:22:27am

re: #302 cliffster

I am very objective. I object to everything.

same here, you'd be correct most of the time

313 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:22:43am

re: #311 NJDhockeyfan

Classic please...in a bottle. :)

8 ounce. Ice cold.

314 deranged cat  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:23:07am

re: #310 darthstar

Ah, the "I've had muslim friends" argument...sweet. I wasn't accusing you of anything, by the way...merely quoting your own words back to you. Sorry if you found your own rhetoric offensive. But I do appreciate your defensiveness.

definitely agree, the "i have/know ______ people" is a weak bullshit defense.

315 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:24:21am

re: #311 NJDhockeyfan

Classic please...in a bottle. :)

After Coke played with the "new Coke" thing in the 80s and failed, they brought back Coca-Cola classic for about a year before dropping the word "classic" and dropping "new" Coke at the same time.

316 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:25:02am

re: #315 darthstar

After Coke played with the "new Coke" thing in the 80s and failed, they brought back Coca-Cola classic for about a year before dropping the word "classic" and dropping "new" Coke at the same time.

Mexican Coke rocks if you can get it.

The cola, I mean...

317 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:25:24am

re: #314 deranged cat

definitely agree, the "i have/know ___ people" is a weak bullshit defense.

Really, what makes it weak is when you actually do have friends of a certain type, but then ignore that said friends don't fit into the mold for "everyone in that group" and continue to rant on about how all x are y...

318 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:25:27am

re: #315 darthstar

After Coke played with the "new Coke" thing in the 80s and failed, they brought back Coca-Cola classic for about a year before dropping the word "classic" and dropping "new" Coke at the same time.

I think New Slurm was just awful as well...

/

319 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:25:51am

re: #315 darthstar

After Coke played with the "new Coke" thing in the 80s and failed, they brought back Coca-Cola classic for about a year before dropping the word "classic" and dropping "new" Coke at the same time.

That was the best marketing scheme ever played.

320 Kragar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:26:20am

re: #318 oaktree

I think New Slurm was just awful as well...

/

2 words;

Crystal
Pepsi

321 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:26:28am

re: #316 JasonA

Mexican Coke rocks if you can get it.

The cola, I mean...

Have a case of it at home right now, actually. Don't drink soda very often, so there are still about 18-20 bottles left on the shelf.

322 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:26:45am

re: #320 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

2 words;

Crystal
Pepsi

That came and went so fast that I never even had a chance to try it.

323 cliffster  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:28:11am

If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it badly

324 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:28:49am

re: #323 cliffster

If you can't learn to do something well, learn to enjoy doing it badly

I feel ya.
/

325 aurelius  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:29:05am

I'm a Pibb man myself.

Somehow tastes both refreshing and gamey, like I just took a bite of a nice cold... ferret?

326 webevintage  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:29:25am

Here are the links for the Daily Show last night.
The first is going after the Republicans and their BS over the deficit and extention of the tax cuts:

Comedy Central Video

The second is about Rangel:

Comedy Central Video

I love the way Rangel begins his speech "I know we are here to do important stuff but really, what about me?"
Hi-larious

327 albusteve  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:29:49am

Regulation Made Canada Fat and Happy

Suppose the U.S. government had posted a budget surplus in 12 of the past 13 years. Suppose not a single major American financial institution had failed or needed a government bailout. Suppose the U.S. economy grew at an annual rate of 6.1 percent in the first quarter of this year, rather than at 2.7 percent.

What we have is an elite willing to risk everyone else's economic security to enable a few hotshots to win big at the casino of recklessness and fraud — while maintaining a variety of taxpayer backstops to reduce their risks.

[Link: www.creators.com...]

328 Buck  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:30:18am

re: #294 Obdicut

Thank you for admitting that you accused me of having said there were no Christians, and that that was a lie on your part.

I admitted no such thing. I have explained multiple times, directly to you, what I was saying. You can continue to ignore it, but I will not debate that point further. Asked and answered councilor, move on.


Again: Your argument makes no sense unless you were saying the counterprotesters against Phelps were moderate Christians.

My argument makes sense to me if I am saying the counterprotesters against Phelps were moderate Christians. I don't really think I added the word ONLY. I don't think I was meaning ONLY. I don't think I inferred that it was ONLY. I also don't think my argument falls apart without the word ONLY.

It is YOU who have said that I said it was ONLY moderate christians. When you said that I was "pretending the ComiCon protest was a bunch of moderate Christians". I didn't pretend anything of the sort. You read the word ONLY into it. It was NOT in my post.

ALSO NOT IN MY POST was anything to do with Park51 or the Iman you keep mentioning. I will NOT get dragged into that pit of mud either.

329 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:30:21am

re: #325 aurelius

I'm a Pibb man myself.

Somehow tastes both refreshing and gamey, like I just took a bite of a nice cold... ferret?

I can't drink a Mr. Pibb without saying, in my best Sydney Poitier voice, "They call me Mr. Pibb." And yes, it is better than Dr. Pepper.

330 cliffster  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:30:24am

re: #324 Cannadian Club Akbar

or better - if you can't learn to do something well, become a manager

331 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:30:45am

re: #325 aurelius

I'm a Pibb man myself.

Somehow tastes both refreshing and gamey, like I just took a bite of a nice cold... ferret?

Also goes well with Taco Bell. I dated a girl who wouldn't go to Taco Bell without a Pibb. She was a whore.

332 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:31:43am

re: #331 Cannadian Club Akbar

Also goes well with Taco Bell. I dated a girl who wouldn't go to Taco Bell without a Pibb. She was a whore.

Lucky you!

333 aurelius  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:32:02am

re: #331 Cannadian Club Akbar

Also goes well with Taco Bell. I dated a girl who wouldn't go to Taco Bell without a Pibb. She was a whore.


whoa, shit just got real. ;)

334 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:32:51am

re: #332 darthstar

Lucky you!

And Greek. RACIST!!!

335 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:33:33am

Oh! I was getting some pizza for mom the other day, because the nursing home food sucks, and guess what I came across? Mello Yello!! I haven't seen that up here in forever. I sucked that bottle down real fast.

336 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:33:44am

My 334 is SO getting deleted.

337 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:33:56am

When I was a kid we used to drink Coke in the small glass bottles. On the bottom of those little bottles is the name of a city. Us kids had to pick one after dinner and whoever had the city closest to home had to do the dishes.

338 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:34:37am

Alan Grayson is making news again...

Rep. Alan Grayson wants Gibbs fired, calls him 'Bozo the Spokesman'

Rep. Alan Grayson (Fla.) Wednesday became the second congressional Democrat to call for White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs' ouster, using colorful moniker to describe him.

Gibbs raised the ire of liberals Tuesday when he told The Hill that some left-wing critics of the Obama administration "ought to be drug tested."

Grayson, who is known for his boisterous comments, called Gibbs "Bozo the Spokesman."

"I don't think he should resign, I think he should be fired. He's done a miserable job," Grayson said on MSNBC. "People I know refer to him as 'Bozo the Spokesman.'"

339 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:35:11am

I still don't like you, Huck, but good job.

Huckabee Opposes Changing 14th Amendment

340 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:35:40am

re: #338 NJDhockeyfan

I want Dana Perino in hip boots back.

341 deranged cat  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:36:26am

re: #316 JasonA

Mexican Coke rocks if you can get it.

The cola, I mean...

this ridiculous "taco bus" in my area (it's like a taco truck, except you can eat inside) is the only place i can find that serves 500ml mexican cokes. oh god, so amazing. and he puts them in a super cold freezer so that when you drink it, it's icy-slushy.

342 What, me worry?  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:37:05am

re: #339 JasonA

I still don't like you, Huck, but good job.

Huckabee Opposes Changing 14th Amendment

It's the old school Republicans. So not in vogue anymore :(

343 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:37:37am

re: #339 JasonA

I still don't like you, Huck, but good job.

Huckabee Opposes Changing 14th Amendment

He only wants to change the constitution to be more Christian. Good job on him for that though. He does seem like a genuinely nice and honest guy. Some of his ideas scare the crap out of me though...

Huckabee - good to have a beer with; bad for president

344 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:37:38am

re: #328 Buck

There is nothing to debate. When you ask someone "Are you positive?" it's because you are saying that they hold that position, and you're asking if they're positive.

It's depressing you can't even admit to the tactics you're using to push your argument. Lying about my position is not a good way to make your argument.


My argument makes sense to me if I am saying the counterprotesters against Phelps were moderate Christians.

Heh. Yes.

However, what you are claiming you mean is 'included moderate Christians', not 'were moderate Christians'.

You see, if you say they were moderate Christians, that really does actually mean you're saying they were only moderate Christians. That's how language works.

Here's you saying it again:

I support the less organized, and grassroots response. Comic Con was just one example. Every Phelps gathering has been counter protested. Moderate Christians, if you will, who cannot stand by and allow his voice to be the only one heard.

Finally: The post you responded to was talking about the Catholic Church in addition to Phelps. The "Church" referenced in that post was the Catholic Church, not Westborough Baptist.

345 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:38:25am

re: #343 ShaunP

He only wants to change the constitution to be more Christian. Good job on him for that though. He does seem like a genuinely nice and honest guy. Some of his ideas scare the crap out of me though...

Huckabee - good to have a beer with; bad for president

Yeah, that's exactly how I feel about the guy. I'd love to go to one of his BBQs.

347 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:39:15am

re: #339 JasonA

I still don't like you, Huck, but good job.

Huckabee Opposes Changing 14th Amendment


Huck's trying to do a little damage control. He plays the tea party and mainstream republicans like a violin, appealing to the extremist Xians with his former pastor experience, he can blow a dog whistle better than most with his Southern drawl without sounding too racist, and he can appeal to moderates with some balanced words on the 14th Amendment.

348 webevintage  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:39:25am

re: #338 NJDhockeyfan

Alan Grayson is making news again...

Rep. Alan Grayson wants Gibbs fired, calls him 'Bozo the Spokesman'

I thought it was funny, but the "professional left" has the very sensitive feelings doncha' know.

349 albusteve  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:39:32am

re: #339 JasonA

I still don't like you, Huck, but good job.

Huckabee Opposes Changing 14th Amendment

smart move....why be saddled with the racist label if you disagree with it?....better just to forget about it and move on

350 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:40:25am

re: #346 Killgore Trout

Cantor Opposes 'Ground Zero Mosque': America Is Built On Freedom Of Religion, 'But Come On' (VIDEO)


[Video]

The Constitution is outrageous!

Unbelievable. The entire Republican Party is signing on to this freak show.

351 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:40:29am

re: #346 Killgore Trout

Cantor Opposes 'Ground Zero Mosque': America Is Built On Freedom Of Religion, 'But Come On' (VIDEO)


[Video]

The Constitution is outrageous!

Sounds like he's reading a comment from RedState. "Come on!"

352 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:41:37am

re: #346 Killgore Trout

Wow. "come on now" being used as a serious argument.

That's really not a way to run a government.

"Come on now, guilty people don't need lawyers!'

353 What, me worry?  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:42:08am

re: #343 ShaunP

He only wants to change the constitution to be more Christian. Good job on him for that though. He does seem like a genuinely nice and honest guy. Some of his ideas scare the crap out of me though...

Huckabee - good to have a beer with; bad for president

It's so weird for me as a liberal when I have to defend the Republicans I wouldn't normally defend.

One of my bosses is far right. We're both love politics and have managed to have good conversations without really offending each other. Anyway, he told me he's going to vote for Rick Scott because he's "going to fire 40% of the government". I'm not a McCollum fan, but I found myself literally begging him to reconsider and vote for McCollum.

354 Kragar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:42:08am

Be ready for another storm on the Prop 8 front today. The judge will be announcing whether the stay on Gay marriages will be lifted sometime this morning.

355 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:42:46am

re: #350 Charles

Unbelievable. The entire Republican Party is signing on to this freak show.

Not all of us. But then you have Marco Rubio, and Bill McCollum and that one douche running in 'Florida. Rick Scott is the douche.

356 Kragar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:42:56am

re: #352 Obdicut

Wow. "come on now" being used as a serious argument.

That's really not a way to run a government.

"Come on now, guilty people don't need lawyers!'

It was God's plan. Who are we to go against God's plan?

357 darthstar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:43:03am

re: #350 Charles

Unbelievable. The entire Republican Party is signing on to this freak show.

It's like God, Gays, and Guns all rolled up into one package...and since the president is a "seekrit mooslim" they think it will win them votes.

Hopefully more Americans will reject this platform of xenophobia and prejudice than embrace it.

358 albusteve  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:43:04am

I'm really fed up with VDH, one of my favorite pundits over the years...he's jumped the shark with the Park51 and gay rights decision in CA...bummer

359 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:43:22am

re: #354 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Be ready for another storm on the Prop 8 front today. The judge will be announcing whether the stay on Gay marriages will be lifted sometime this morning.

How exactly can there still be a stay after the ruling that came down? I haven't been able to understand that.

360 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:44:09am

re: #356 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It was God's plan. Who are we to go against God's plan?

According to the Bible, god's orginal plan was so bad he rebooted the world.

I'm never sure why everyone is confident in God's plan. Which of his plans actually went according to plan?

And what kind of a plan is putting a fruit tree in a garden and telling people not to eat it? That's just asking for trouble.

361 albusteve  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:44:34am

re: #351 JasonA

Sounds like he's reading a comment from RedState. "Come on!"

a future House Majority Leader?.....Speaker?

362 cliffster  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:44:44am

I think I've figured out a way to make working here more bearable. But, before I can tell you about it I'll need a cold beer, a PA system, & an emergency slide.

363 webevintage  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:44:58am

re: #355 Cannadian Club Akbar

Not all of us. But then you have Marco Rubio, and Bill McCollum and that one douche running in 'Florida. Rick Scott is the douche.

I just saw this:
[Link: politicalwire.com...]
and it looks like Scott is losing steam.
Hope so seeing as how he should be in prison not running for office.

364 Kragar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:45:27am

re: #359 JasonA

How exactly can there still be a stay after the ruling that came down? I haven't been able to understand that.

He had issued a stay pending the filing of appeals and additional legal paperwork after his ruling. Now he decides whether they can go ahead with the marriages while the appeals go forward or if they need to be held off while the appeals are pending.

I know what my money is on.

365 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:46:01am

re: #364 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

He had issued a stay pending the filing of appeals and additional legal paperwork after his ruling. Now he decides whether they can go ahead with the marriages while the appeals go forward or if they need to be held off while the appeals are pending.

I know what my money is on.

Wingnut butthurt? Always bet on butthurt.

366 Buck  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:46:03am

re: #344 Obdicut


However, what you are claiming you mean is 'included moderate Christians', not 'were moderate Christians'.

Yes, I have stated many time that I don't think I had to explain that. I still don't think it was confusing. You think I meant ONLY moderate christians, and that is not what I meant. I said that in my first response to you.

It has taken you a really long time to see that is what I meant.

My QUESTION about "are you positive" was to make the point that it wasn't all or nothing. I (again) made that clear in my first response to you when I said "Was I saying that they were only?". I wasn't saying that.

I am now going for lunch with my brother. Do not take a lack of response from me as anything more than I am gone.

367 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:46:31am

re: #363 webevintage

I just saw this:
[Link: politicalwire.com...]
and it looks like Scott is losing steam.
Hope so seeing as how he should be in prison not running for office.

Rick Scott is a fucking Douchebag11!!

368 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:46:38am

re: #360 Obdicut

According to the Bible, god's orginal plan was so bad he rebooted the world.

I'm never sure why everyone is confident in God's plan. Which of his plans actually went according to plan?

And what kind of a plan is putting a fruit tree in a garden and telling people not to eat it? That's just asking for trouble.

especially when they just finished smoking that weed that G-d created and allowed to grow in abundance

369 albusteve  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:47:28am

re: #368 _RememberTonyC

especially when they just finished smoking that weed that G-d created and allowed to grow in abundance

munchies are a God given right!

370 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:47:32am

re: #300 ShaunP

You said that Phelps is the only example of radical christians. Celtic dragon gave you more examples. He/she (sorry CD) wasn't saying that it was Phelps' doing...

I'm a she, but no skin off my nose ;)

371 Kragar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:47:45am

re: #360 Obdicut

According to the Bible, god's orginal plan was so bad he rebooted the world.

I'm never sure why everyone is confident in God's plan. Which of his plans actually went according to plan?

And what kind of a plan is putting a fruit tree in a garden and telling people not to eat it? That's just asking for trouble.

I only trust God's plan when I hear it straight from the pyrotechnic shrubbery.

372 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:48:22am

re: #353 marjoriemoon

It's so weird for me as a liberal when I have to defend the Republicans I wouldn't normally defend.

One of my bosses is far right. We're both love politics and have managed to have good conversations without really offending each other. Anyway, he told me he's going to vote for Rick Scott because he's "going to fire 40% of the government". I'm not a McCollum fan, but I found myself literally begging him to reconsider and vote for McCollum.

I feel the same way. Not so much because I like McCollum at all. But because if there's even the slightest chance that Sink's campaign busts, I don't want Scott to walk into the governor's seat.

373 Nimed  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:48:33am

re: #285 NJDhockeyfan

I have also had muslim friends all my life so don't accuse me of anything like that. You have no idea.

lol

Why, some of my best friends...

374 zora  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:49:23am

good afternoon, lizards

a video to lighten the mood

Where are the moderate muslims?

Youtube Video
375 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:49:30am

re: #371 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I only trust God's plan when I hear it straight from the pyrotechnic shrubbery.

The shrubbery mentioned by _RememberTonyC at #368?

376 Digital Display  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:49:39am

re: #371 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I only trust God's plan when I hear it straight from the pyrotechnic shrubbery.

LOL
You mean you don't have his Cell?

377 subsailor68  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:49:42am

re: #350 Charles

Unbelievable. The entire Republican Party is signing on to this freak show.

Well here's a rare bird! Appears there's one guy who isn't buying into all the nonsense:

Hanna Breaks With GOP On Mosque

Don't know what his other positions are, but he's definitely breaking ranks on this one.

378 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:50:19am

Say a prayer for the safety of our Marines. They are the best in the world...

US Marines arrive to help Pakistan flood survivors

A shipload of U.S. Marines and helicopters arrived to boost relief efforts in flooded Pakistan on Thursday, but the prime minister told The Associated Press his country needs more international help to cope with one of the worst natural disasters in its history.

The United Nations warned the crisis was far from over, saying dams in Sindh province could still burst in the coming days. More rain fell around the country, and monsoon season is forecast to last several weeks still.

Spokesman Maurizio Giuliano said U.N. officials roughly estimated that up to one-fourth of the country is or had been affected by the floods, though those areas were not necessarily under water.

379 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:50:47am

re: #366 Buck

Yes, I have stated many time that I don't think I had to explain that. I still don't think it was confusing. You think I meant ONLY moderate christians, and that is not what I meant. I said that in my first response to you.

It is, however, what you said, repeatedly. Which means that you should have been grateful, rather than defensive, when I corrected you. And not lied about my position in return, when you asked me if I was positive that there were no Christians there.

I seem to recall you being a man of faith; what does your faith say about lying?


My QUESTION about "are you positive" was to make the point that it wasn't all or nothing.

But that's not what "Are you positive" means, Buck. Not in any way, at all, in any context. It means that you're asking me if I'm positive about X, where X is something I've expressed. You're claiming "Are you positive?" can be used as a question to someone who has never said he believed what you're asking them if they're positive about-- that's idiotic.

This is kinda sad.

380 Kragar  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:50:54am

re: #375 wrenchwench

The shrubbery mentioned by _RememberTonyC at #368?

I do not partake of that.

381 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:51:26am

re: #377 subsailor68

Well here's a rare bird! Appears there's one guy who isn't buying into all the nonsense:

Hanna Breaks With GOP On Mosque

Don't know what his other positions are, but he's definitely breaking ranks on this one.

Fresh meat for the Tea Party?

382 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:51:34am

re: #373 Nimed

lol

Why, some of my best friends...

WOW...seems like there's a lot of people on here that know everything about me.
//

383 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:51:50am

re: #371 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I only trust God's plan when I hear it straight from the pyrotechnic shrubbery.

One of my favorite lines ever from a girl who has the grace to take me home with her:

"Take off your pants; this is holy ground."

384 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:51:55am

re: #348 webevintage

I thought it was funny, but the "professional left" has the very sensitive feelings doncha' know.

The left does a far better job of challenging Obama then the Right ever did in challenging Bush. I found out in short order that disagreeing with the President about anything at all made me a pus oozing RINO and a cheese eating moonbat surrender monkey...and that was for pointing out in 2006 that Iraq had gone to hell and we needed to do something about it.

385 subsailor68  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:52:08am

re: #381 JasonA

Fresh meat for the Tea Party?

I hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised.

386 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:52:55am

re: #378 NJDhockeyfan

Say a prayer for the safety of our Marines. They are the best in the world...

US Marines arrive to help Pakistan flood survivors

Roger that.

387 celticdragon  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:54:12am

re: #383 Obdicut

One of my favorite lines ever from a girl who has the grace to take me home with her:

"Take off your pants; this is holy ground."

By all means, do go on...

388 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:56:52am

re: #383 Obdicut

One of my favorite lines ever from a girl who has the grace to take me home with her:

"Take off your pants; this is holy ground."

I hope you showed the utmost respect for this lady's faith...

389 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 9:59:12am

re: #387 celticdragon

By all means, do go on...

I don't kiss and tell.

Well.

I admit there was kissing.

But these days I get to kiss my awesome wife, which is the best thing ever.

390 Mocking Jay  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 10:00:00am

re: #389 Obdicut

I don't kiss and tell.

Well.

I admit there was kissing.

But these days I get to kiss my awesome wife, which is the best thing ever.

I'll be sure to refer her to this thread should she ever join LGF :P

391 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 10:02:02am

re: #390 JasonA

Heh. She is really not the jealous type. I just like kissing her.

392 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 10:05:02am

re: #277 Charles

Right.

So maybe a good step toward fighting against the radicals in Islam would be NOT TO DEMONIZE MUSLIMS, and not to lie about, smear, and distort the words of people like Imam Feisal Rauf.

The right wing's treatment of this man is beyond disgusting.

Has Rauf not maintained his refusal to condemn the government-certified Islamofascist Terrorist Organization Hamas?
Did Rauf not blame America for causing 9-11?
This guy may be relatively moderate compared to some of the other whackos, but he is not the ideal poster boy that some pretend.

393 Nimed  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 10:05:12am

re: #382 NJDhockeyfan

WOW...seems like there's a lot of people on here that know everything about me.
//

Huh? The point is that nobody cares about your personal and unverifiable life experiences for the purposes of this discussion, because they are not a valid argument. Rather, it's a version of the old and tired "Why, some of my best friends are black, and they tell me they absolutely hate hate hate the civil rights movement."

394 lostlakehiker  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 10:33:17am

re: #263 SilentAlfa

It would seem to me that it's a pretty self-destructive cycle we have going on here. Why are there young Muslims who turn to radicalism? Because they live in a society where they turn on the local news and see stories about "terrorbabies" and protests against Islam and reverends who say there is a War on Islam. And so if you see that there is a war specifically against Muslims, then as a Muslim, shouldn't you defend yourself? And then why do people hate Muslims? Because there are terrorists who are Muslims.

I'm not defending terrorism, but I think it's extremely important for us to understand why people become terrorists. How can we defeat terrorism unless we defeat the root cause? Obviously it cannot be defeated on the battlefield, it's an idea and not an army.

We can harden our targets. Defeating the idea is the work of Muslims who don't want to see their religion go off the deep end. Containing the effectiveness of the attacks that do occur is our job. We cannot prevent sniper sprees, backpack bombs on buses or in hotel lobbies, and the like. We ought to make sure that we don't give our enemies easy ways to run the death toll into the thousands or higher.

But the reason some Muslims have turned to terror has nothing to do with Western aggression or a "war on Islam". U.S. world policy has been aimed at peace and justice for the most part. We came to the rescue of the Bosnian Muslims when Western Europe hesitated. We liberated Kuwait, and our second war with Iraq overthrew a regime that had an endless list of crimes against humanity to answer for---and which humans? Muslims.

We brokered the Egyptian-Israeli peace deal and ever since, we've been sending both humanitarian and military assistance to Egypt. Today, we're mounting a relief effort in Pakistan after the floods there. Before, we were at the forefront of relief efforts in Indonesia after the tsunami.

True, we have killed quite a few Muslims over the course of this war. Regrettably, some have been civilians, but we try very hard to avoid that. Most have been warriors or terrorists, and Muslim religious tradition accepts that war is war and the man who is killed, gun in hand, in a fair fight, has not been murdered.

As to "people hating Muslims", true hatred expresses itself in mob violence and targeted murders, in shunning, boycotts, and so on. No Christian has gone into a gathering of Muslims, guns in hand, shouting God is Great and killing right and left. There have been no anti-Muslim riots. Nothing in the murder statistics of this nation points to any anti-Muslim agenda. Unlike in Europe, Muslims in America enjoy (if that is the word) an unemployment rate comparable to what the rest of us face.

Muslims in America get more justice in court here than they do at home. Our war is defensive. It began when their hotheads attacked us, and it will end when they decide that attacking us is a bad idea.

395 ReamWorks SKG  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 10:36:32am

I thought this was outrageous

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I'm not without sympathy for the unemployed. But handing out $50K loans to someone already deeply in debt and who can't pay their bills will only prolong their misery.

I'd rather we GAVE AWAY up to $5,000 to people in this circumstance to cover documented moving or legal expenses. Get these folks into a home the can afford, and put the house on the market for a reduced price, making housing more affordable for everyone.

Of course, our current administration is more interested in keeping house prices inflated than affordable housing.

396 reine.de.tout  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 10:52:50am

re: #148 Varek Raith

True.
I'm just applying your statement to the Church, who has done nothing but deflect. And yet, I hardly see any calls from Christians to stop this. It's just ignored. As a lot of Muslims do.

If you haven't seen Catholic outrage over the pedophile priests, including right here at LGF, including my own outrage, you are just not paying attention (or you are paying only selective attention to what suits you).

And if you haven't seen Christian outrage about the idiotic Phelps clan, right here at LGF and all over the country, you again haven't been paying attention.

397 Achilles Tang  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 11:05:10am

re: #263 SilentAlfa


I'm not defending terrorism, but I think it's extremely important for us to understand why people become terrorists. How can we defeat terrorism unless we defeat the root cause? Obviously it cannot be defeated on the battlefield, it's an idea and not an army.

There are non Muslim terrorists of course and if Christians had only The Old Testament there would probably be as many Christian terrorists as Muslim ones.

The point being that any Literalist Word of God religion can easily be cherry picked to come to any conclusion that feels good.

Anyone who is otherwise a failure in life can easily find meaning as a soldier of a god, and get laid in the end./

398 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 11:20:18am

re: #396 reine.de.tout

I've definitely seen both.

I've also seen the total lack of effect the outrage has had on the Catholic Church.

It doesn't make me doubt the sincerity of Catholics. I don't believe that if Catholic laypeople just tried a little harder, they could swing the Church their way.

Likewise, I don't think that moderate Muslims can actually affect radical Muslims-- actually, it's not likewise; the Catholic Church should be listening to its parishoners, but doesn't appear to consider their opinions to have any weight.

It's a sad thing all around, but the point is that if we're going to grant that Catholics are not responsible for actions of the Catholic Church, to which they actually do belong, we obviously must grant that moderate Muslims can't really affect the radicals at all.

399 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 11:56:55am

re: #203 Obdicut

Why are you pretending the ComiCon protest was a bunch of moderate Christians, instead of a wide variety of people?

Or, more precisely, a bunch of people from Comic-Con. I know people who go to Comic-Con. Some of them are Christians, true. But at Comic-Con they are mostly Trekkies.

400 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 11:57:35am

re: #206 Gus 802

Muslims denounce terror in Mumbai

[Video]

The Muslim community in Mumbai refused to bury the bodies of the terrorists who attacked the city in their cemetery.

401 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:01:50pm

re: #239 Spare O'Lake

They can do it if they organize and force the issue.

How? By sitting down with the extremists for voluntary compromise?

You're talking about nothing, and getting pissed when people point out problems with your plan.

402 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:05:30pm

re: #298 NJDhockeyfan

That murderer was linked to Phelps? I didn't know that.

Neat. With Christian crazies, one needs an actual line of evidence. With Muslim crazies, one only needs...well, no actual connection will work fine.

That's the point people are trying to make here.

403 Buck  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 12:59:50pm

re: #379 Obdicut

Clearly you don't know anything about me. You are twisting what I am saying.

Did you accuse me of saying that there were ONLY moderate christians at the counter protests? Did you do it BEFORE I said that sentence that confused you? Did you lie about what I said?

Of course you didn't lie. You were confused. AND instead of accepting the simple clarification I gave, you are going on and on... name calling and being person about it.

You have hijacked what I said, to distort it beyond what I was talking about, and tried to make me say what YOU want me to say.

Someone said that they have never seen moderate christians protest against Phelp and his perverted group. I said they had, and gave an example.

This isn't really about muslims protesting.... it is about giving credit to moderate christians AND OTHERS (fine) for making their objection to Phelps and his band of villians known.

I am done with you. If in the future if you try and engage me, I will ignore you. Do not think that means you are right, you probably are not. However I am making a list of people who are on ignore for me. If you wish, you can do the same for me.

404 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 12, 2010 1:27:58pm

re: #403 Buck

Nope. I'll continue to point out where your arguments are absolutely terrible.

Have fun with your list.

What I did was point out that you were using the protest at ComiCon, which almost certainly contained moderate Christians but was not a Moderate Christian protest, as a claim to moderate Christians protesting Phelps.

You also misread or misunderstood the original comment you were replying to, because it was about the ineffectiveness of Christians of various subsets affecting the other sets. Phelps can't be kicked out of his church-- he is his church. The Catholic Church can't be forced by other Christians (or even its own members) to do anything.

You repeatedly treated the ComiCon protest as though it showed something about moderate Christians. It did not. It showed something about the attendees at ComiCon, which doubtless includes moderate Christians, but probably includes more liberal Christians.

Again: Have fun with your list, but I'm not going to stop pointing out your errors.


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