Moving Stinks Open Thread

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Back on the iPhone again, so I’ll keep this short and semi-sweet — moving really does stink, but the US Navy did us proud today. And yes, I know we’re supposed to detest and mock everything President Obama does, on pain of excommunication, but as Commander in Chief he deserves congratulations for handling this one just right.

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878 comments

1 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:47:30pm

He certainly does.

2 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:47:58pm

Okay ... good job on this one Obama ... thanks so much for letting out great military do their jobs ... next ...

3 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:48:09pm

The last time I moved, it was the hottest week of the year. And we only had four people, once of whom was me.

Oh, yes, moving sucks.

4 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:48:51pm

Subterranean Homesick Blues?

5 Nevergiveup  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:49:08pm

Yes he does HOWEVER COMING TO THEATER NEAR YOU:

U.S. leaning toward taking part in Durban 2 summit


[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

6 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:49:26pm

With the stuff going on in Bangkok, does anyone know if Carradine (Karradine) is ok? I haven't seen him posting here in a real long time.

7 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:49:47pm

re: #5 Nevergiveup

Yes he does HOWEVER COMING TO THEATER NEAR YOU:

U.S. leaning toward taking part in Durban 2 summit

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

I really hope not, but I gloomily expect the worse.

8 CapeCoddah  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:49:49pm

THE NAVY ROCKS!
I had to give the president kudos on this one too, but, I never doubted the Navy for one second!
Z

9 Arby Dwiar  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:49:56pm

Well, at least you've got the iPhone.

I'll be with another carrier forever, as it seems, so it's the Palmster for me.

Anyway - hang in there - this too, shall pass.

10 David Simon  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:50:01pm

I decided a long time ago, I'm well past the keg of beer and pizza stage of my life. It's well worth it to pay the damn movers, and be done with it.

11 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:50:19pm

re: #6 Walter L. Newton

With the stuff going on in Bangkok, does anyone know if Carradine (Karradine) is ok? I haven't seen him posting here in a real long time.

you are the second person asking that today ... and not one person knows ... I hope he is okay ... anyone have his email address? ....

12 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:50:22pm

re: #6 Walter L. Newton

With the stuff going on in Bangkok, does anyone know if Carradine (Karradine) is ok? I haven't seen him posting here in a real long time.

I think I've got his email addy somewhere. Let me drop him a line and find out.

13 BatGuano  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:50:24pm

He did the right thing. I did not think he had the balls.

14 Shug  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:50:42pm

Mission accomplished

15 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:50:52pm

When I moved in here it was just a roommate and I (friends all bailed). 4 flights, no elevator, winding staircase, in the rain.

16 oh_dude  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:51:24pm

I would help, but I hurt my back last week. I'll be happy to check out your couch and make sure it's working correctly though.

17 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:51:29pm

Yes, he did the right thing-by standing back and letting the professionals handle it.

18 jjmckay1216  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:51:40pm

Corey Hart, wearing sunglasses night, smashed one. Cubs now lead 5-2

19 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:52:09pm

re: #4 Sharmuta

Subterranean Homesick Blues?


[Video]

oh yeah....don't stop there

20 Edouard  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:52:18pm

Standing out of the way and letting the US Navy do what it can do. I'm certainly in favor of that.

21 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:52:44pm

Louis Armstrong and Johnny Cash

22 jcm  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:52:57pm

Moving sucks.....

23 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:53:18pm

why does Charles hate pirates?...

24 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:53:25pm

re: #19 albusteve

I just thought maybe Stinky missed the old Beneath Denver Airport digs.

25 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:53:59pm

re: #24 Sharmuta

I just thought maybe Stinky missed the old Beneath Denver Airport digs.

I got it right off...clever you are

26 Nim Chimpsky  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:54:11pm

I second Charles's sentiments. Let's give credit where credit is due. H-m-m-m, I just wonder what the press and those on the left would have said if Bush had done it. Should we now call Obama the "Cowboy-in Chief?"

27 Shug  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:54:24pm

Being intellectually honest matters. If you give the Pres. Credit when he does well you can call him out when he doesn't

28 jcm  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:54:32pm

re: #23 albusteve

why does Charles hate pirates?...

Open Sea Alternative Entrepreneurs!

Pirates, is so, so judgmental!

/////

29 Wilderstad  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:54:44pm

I don't know he handled anything. Unless you count sitting back and letting the Navy do their job handling something.

30 Cobdenite  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:54:45pm

More importantly, the Administration and the Department of Defense are holding a debate about whether to go ahead and bomb the Somali camps where piracy seems to breed and form links to Al-Q.

31 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:54:58pm

surfing for 'underground songs'...tough one

32 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:55:01pm

I'm always thinking about moving but constantly remind myself of how much I hate moving. Boxing is annoying and looking through some reminders of the past and unfulfilled dreams and such can be depressing. Getting new utilities, internet, mail and address changes. Etc, etc.

33 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:55:12pm
as Commander in Chief he deserves congratulations for handling this one just right.

You mean the way he didn't make a complete ass of himself by second-guessing the military the way he did with Iraq?

34 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:55:43pm

re: #29 Wilderstad

I don't know he handled anything. Unless you count sitting back and letting the Navy do their job handling something.

ODS strikes again.

35 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:56:21pm

re: #30 Cobdenite

Why should there be a debate?

36 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:56:22pm

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

ODS strikes again.

not really...BO just did the standard thing...big whoop

37 Wilderstad  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:57:14pm

re: #34 Walter L. Newton

What? Now my personal opinion is ODS?

38 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:58:11pm

re: #37 Wilderstad

What? Now my personal opinion is ODS?

What ever. Any way, it's going to be a long 4 years, left, right, it's all become one big blur.

39 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:58:22pm

re: #31 albusteve

surfing for 'underground songs'...tough one

The Velvet Underground - I Can't Stand It

40 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:58:27pm

re: #37 Wilderstad

Any criticism of The One is now considered ODS.

41 Wilderstad  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:59:05pm

You know when you say whatever. To me it's the same as if you told me to F-off. It's dismissive and rude.

42 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:59:23pm

Charles got to move...


43 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 6:59:35pm

re: #41 Wilderstad

You know when you say whatever. To me it's the same as if you told me to F-off. It's dismissive and rude.

Sorry.

44 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:00:09pm

re: #39 Bloodnok

The Velvet Underground - I Can't Stand It


[Video]

good one...it's hard eh?...never thought of it

45 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:00:15pm

re: #42 albusteve

Charles got to move...

[Video]

I was sure you were going to play "Live With Me".

46 Racer X  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:00:17pm

"Mr. President, can we engage in lethal measures in order secure the release of our hostage?"

Obama - "OK".

Sorry guys. To me this is two steps above "present".

47 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:00:33pm

I trust all had a good Easter?

48 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:01:15pm

re: #45 Bloodnok

I was sure you were going to play "Live With Me".

Rarities!...check out THAT version bro

49 Steve Rogers  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:01:34pm

A pirate walks into a bar wearing a paper towel on his head. He sits down at the bar and asks for a bottle of rum.

The bartender says, "Why are you wearing a paper towel?"

The pirate says, "I've got a bounty on me head!"

50 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:01:47pm

re: #31 albusteve

surfing for 'underground songs'...tough one

At least it's not Beneath Folsom Prison Homesick Blues

51 So?  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:01:51pm

Since most have moved on to this new OPEN thread, I will repost my comment I just posted in the previous thread as the room seems to be empty there.

~~~~~~~~~
OK earlier today, I got into a pissing match with a few of you who disagreed with me when I wrote that these thugs weren't pirates but terrorists. Most of you disagreed because of this that and the other thing. Ok I just skimmed a recent article on the situation and it reads:

PIRATES VOW REVENGE

Somali pirates were quick to vow revenge over the shooting of their comrades, as well as a French military assault to rescue a yacht on Friday.

"The French and the Americans will regret starting this killing. We do not kill, but take only ransom. We shall do something to anyone we see as French or American from now," Hussein, a pirate, told Reuters by satellite phone.

So if they start killing hostages in captivity and start attacking and killing crewmen aboard new ships in the region, will you still consider them pirates?

52 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:02:02pm

The President knew enough to stay out of the details and play with the dog and look for Easter Eggs. Which is nice.

53 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:02:13pm
54 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:02:22pm

Good Job Mr. President..
Great Mission US Navy!
The Captain is a brave American Hero..He gave himself up for his crew
The Shipping Company should give him the 10 million dollar ransom..
He displayed those traits we most value as Americans..Leadership, Traditions, Bravery, Sacrifice in word and most importantly in deed
There is no questioning that this Captain behaved above and beyond the call of duty and with great poise and bravery.

55 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:02:43pm

re: #40 irongrampa

Any criticism of The One is now considered ODS.

I'm totaled then...mainline ODS OD

56 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:02:55pm

okay ... I know I have differences with Avanti ... politically ... I am sorry but his last post to me in the last thread ... I guess I asked for by talking about porno ... but I was not expecting a visual of his first sex act ... and he was alone ! ... Avanti ... dude ... I don't have enough brain bleach ... I give up ... you win ...

57 Shug  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:03:02pm

ODSS

Obama derangement syndrome syndrome is a new condition where an individual labels all criticism of Obama ODS.

Praise him when he does well. Bust his arse when he doesn't and you will avoid ODS and ODSS. Simple

58 Racer X  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:03:14pm

Now on the other hand - if Obama had said a few days ago "I have instructed our military to take whatever steps are necessary to secure the safe return of the American hostage", then today I would give him some credit.

59 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:03:20pm

I repeat from the last thread: I give President Obama credit for not getting in the way. And I'm serious. He could have gotten in the way. He did not.

60 Syrah  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:03:46pm

Moving. . .

"you neglected to mention the sleeper sofa."

"I forgot all about the air hockey table."

61 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:03:54pm

re: #52 Mich-again

The President knew enough to stay out of the details and play with the dog and look for Easter Eggs. Which is nice.

Sure is. Last time a president was played field commander was LBJ and look at the havoc he caused.

62 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:03:59pm
63 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:04:00pm

re: #50 Sharmuta

At least it's not Beneath Folsom Prison Homesick Blues


[Video]

Johnny!....nice pomp eh...kind oily back then tho

64 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:04:07pm

Hey Evening Lizards! It was a glorious day in The Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland this Easter Sunday.

I hope you-all had a day of good food and lots of chocolate.

I'm sorry about the move, Charles. I HATE moving.

I'm very happy the Navy got to do their job.

I'll be in and out thruout the evening.

How are you-all?

65 dapperdave  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:04:12pm

Yes moving does suck but that's how you find out who your real friends are.

66 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:04:57pm

Has it been confirmed that the rescue occurred when Capt. Phillips jumped into the water a second time?

I would have thought the Navy vessel would have gotten him the first time he jumped in, and I wonder why they weren't ready for that opportunity. But all's well that ends well.

67 jdog29  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:05:17pm

What a great way to wrap up Passover/Easter/the Master's Golf Tourney weekend.

Congrats Navy heroes, God Bless and God's speed.

cya tomorrow Lizards

68 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:05:17pm

re: #50 Sharmuta

At least it's not Beneath Folsom Prison Homesick Blues


[Video]

what a great vid!...the git player is askin about lunch during hid little break!

69 Syrah  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:05:33pm

re: #65 dapperdave

Yes moving does suck but that's how you find out who your real friends are.

Its interesting to be the "friend" with the truck too.

70 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:05:34pm

He did what he was supposed to do, as CinC. IMO, it was a no-brainer. Having said that, congrats to the SEALs and best wishes for the captain and his family.

71 Pietr  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:05:43pm

re: #29 Wilderstad

I don't know he handled anything. Unless you count sitting back and letting the Navy do their job handling something.

Unlike Peanut Carter, BO had the sense to allow the military to do it's job-he didn't try to micro manage from the oval office.........He gets Kudos' for being that smart, at least.

72 AmeriDan  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:05:45pm

re: #56 JacksonTn

okay ... I know I have differences with Avanti ... politically ... I am sorry but his last post to me in the last thread ... I guess I asked for by talking about porno ... but I was not expecting a visual of his first sex act ... and he was alone ! ... Avanti ... dude ... I don't have enough brain bleach ... I give up ... you win ...

?

73 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:06:18pm

re: #69 Syrah

Its interesting to be the "friend" with the truck too.

You have a truck?!

Will you be my friend?

And are you free this August 31?

74 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:06:28pm

re: #69 Syrah

Yeah, you find friends you didn't even know existed.

75 Wilderstad  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:06:49pm

re: #71 Pietr

I'm just cynical.

76 David Simon  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:07:01pm

re: #52 Mich-again

The President knew enough to stay out of the details and play with the dog and look for Easter Eggs. Which is nice.

True. And when he commands the Seals on a job well done, it will be even nicer.

/I haven't lost total faith in you yet, Mr. President.

77 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:07:36pm

re: #12 Dianna

I think I've got his email addy somewhere. Let me drop him a line and find out.

OK, it took forever to find the address, but I just sent off a one-line query as to Karridine's well being. I will let you know whatever I hear.

78 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:07:41pm

Rick Roll'd by Jimmah. Damn you Jimmah!

79 David Simon  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:07:47pm

Er, commends

80 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:08:05pm

One of the little things that has made moving easier for me in recent years is my wooden wine box book shelves. Hey- the books are already packed, in small and sturdy boxes. Just tip them over on their back/bottom and they're good to go.

81 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:08:16pm

Movin Out...buckle up


82 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:08:24pm

If Obama keeps letting the military kill terrorists he may cause some uncomfortable moments at moonbat parties.

83 Cygnus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:08:37pm

I and several others helped this lady move once. On moving day we walked into her house and she had NOTHING was ready for moving! There was stuff scattered all over and we had to shovel it all into boxes. What a dipwad.

84 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:08:58pm

re: #68 albusteve

You like Johnny?

85 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:09:08pm

re: #66 stuiec

Has it been confirmed that the rescue occurred when Capt. Phillips jumped into the water a second time?

Late word is he did NOT jump in the second time, but was tied up in the boat.

... which was under tow and 30 meters from the fantail and Marine snipers.

86 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:09:10pm

re: #51 So?

As long as their goal is money, not politics, they are pirates. Just because they become murdering pirates, it changes nothing. Pirates can kill too. As a example, if drug dealers start killing cops, they are still drug dealers.

87 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:09:34pm

Our Navy did us proud, and Capt. Phillips is a true hero.

As for Obama--

but as Commander in Chief he deserves congratulations for handling this one just right

I'm still awaiting more information on that "just right" part. My inclination to say "yep, job well done, Obama" was paused when I heard the description of the apparent restrictive ROE at the press briefing. And that gave me some pause. I'd like to know more before I congratulate Obama; I want to know if this outcome happened because of his instructions, or in spite of them.

88 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:09:38pm

re: #72 AmeriDan

?

Yeah, I'm thinking that we need a "?" button.

89 dapperdave  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:09:39pm

re: #74 irongrampa

You may find that the "friends" you had suddenly vanish on moving day, then you have to make new friends real quick.

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:09:45pm

re: #26 Nim Chimpsky

Don't think Bush would have had a problem with this either. I haven't talked to one person who didn't want these guys blown the fuck up.

91 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:09:48pm

The worst is the friend, usually female, who you help move out from under an abusive male. Then she turns around and moves back in the next day. Seen it happen over and over. Luckily, I only had to watch. Would have been p!ssed if I had actually done the labor.

92 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:09:59pm

re: #84 Sharmuta

You like Johnny?


[Video]

well hell yes....he's an original, an icon...I respect the Elders

93 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:10:00pm

re: #86 avanti

As long as their goal is money, not politics, they are pirates. Just because they become murdering pirates, it changes nothing. Pirates can kill too. As a example, if drug dealers start killing cops, they are still drug dealers.

MURDERERS ALL OF THEM ...

94 dkorta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:10:21pm

re: #51 So?

So if they start killing hostages in captivity and start attacking and killing crewmen aboard new ships in the region, will you still consider them pirates?

Yep. Vengeful pirates.

95 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:10:22pm

re: #87 Occasional Reader

What's the story on the ROE?

96 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:10:42pm

re: #56 JacksonTn

okay ... I know I have differences with Avanti ... politically ... I am sorry but his last post to me in the last thread ... I guess I asked for by talking about porno ... but I was not expecting a visual of his first sex act ... and he was alone ! ... Avanti ... dude ... I don't have enough brain bleach ... I give up ... you win ...

It's all my fault! LOL
All I said in the last thread was that a buddy said on the phone the oher day that you knew you had high class porn if Coltrane was playing the soundtrack..pretty funny line really
It went down hill after that like a skier in the Alps..There was no stopping it..
Just give me a blindfold before you shoot me..thats all I ask

97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:10:49pm

re: #85 itellu3times

I'm not a military person. Ain't thirty meters pretty much point blank for a United States Military Sniper?

98 Cygnus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:10:57pm

re: #90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Don't think Bush would have had a problem with this either. I haven't talked to one person who didn't want these guys blown the fuck up.

I guess Code Pink was unavailable for comment then.

99 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:11:04pm

re: #88 Dianna

Yeah, I'm thinking that we need a "?" button.

I am not reliving it ... you have to go to the thread yourself ... I now know more than I ever wanted to know about Avanti ... more brain bleach ...

100 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:11:17pm

re: #72 AmeriDan

?

Hell, that joke is minor brain bleach, I have worse.

101 Syrah  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:11:18pm

One of my favorite Johnny Cash songs.

102 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:11:49pm

I will never forgive Obama for spending most of his adult life as a member of a racist hate group.

I will never forgive Obama for defending a murdering terrorist who wished to kill 20 million Americans as a "legitimate" participant in the American political process.

He has absolutely no business being the president. But I'm certainly willing to give him credit for doing the right thing when he does the right thing. He did so today, and frankly that wasn't the first time. However (I admit I'm a little behind on this story), didn't someone blow an opportunity to rescue the captain the first time he jumped off the boat?

103 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:12:19pm

re: #92 albusteve

well hell yes....he's an original, an icon...I respect the Elders

Me too.

104 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:12:30pm

re: #89 dapperdave

Which is why we called our friendly moving company on our recent move. Had enough of that shit.

105 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:12:41pm

Bill Cunningham is now on the radio. "Millions listening and thousands on hold." What a jerk. I wonder how many times Corsi will be on tonight?

106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:12:56pm

re: #98 Cygnus

I guess Code Pink was unavailable for comment then.

No one was listening to them. Sean Penn probably even wanted these guys shot.

107 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:13:01pm

re: #96 HoosierHoops

It's all my fault! LOL
All I said in the last thread was that a buddy said on the phone the oher day that you knew you had high class porn if Coltrane was playing the soundtrack..pretty funny line really
It went down hill after that like a skier in the Alps..There was no stopping it..
Just give me a blindfold before you shoot me..thats all I ask

Yeah ... Yeah ... that's the ticket ... you started it Hoops ...

108 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:13:08pm

re: #62 Bloodnok

The live version on YT is awesome. Great band.

109 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:13:09pm

Pirates don't do ramming speed.

110 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:13:29pm

Anthony's Song - Movin' Out

Billy Joel

111 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:13:31pm

Olympic target shooting range is 1000 meters from muzzle to target, correct? Although the Olympic shooters aren't on the deck of a heaving ship. So the Navy had some excellent snipers on this task today. Good for them!

112 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:13:43pm

re: #95 Sharmuta

What's the story on the ROE?


Unless I badly misheard/misunderstood, Gortney (name right?) who was on the line at the presser said that the ROE was to shoot only if the hostage was in "imminent danger" and NOT to shoot otherwise. That seems dangerously wrong to me. Commanders on the scene should have authority to use deadly force when the opportunity presents itself.

113 Pietr  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:13:59pm

re: #75 Wilderstad

I'm just cynical.

Cynical is OK, but we should not kick BO for doing the right thing; we have plenty of wrong things to harp on, IMHO.

114 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:14:40pm

re: #107 JacksonTn

There's a Johnny Cash song with your name all over it!

115 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:14:43pm

re: #97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm not a military person. Ain't thirty meters pretty much point blank for a United States Military Sniper?

I'm not either, but as I understand it, thirty meters is down the throat and out the ass.

Navy guy on Los Angeles radio 640 was telling the story this afternoon, and when I heard they had the lifeboat in tow and that close, that was the story. If it took the commander two days to get it to that point, well and good.

116 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:14:45pm

re: #108 BigPapa

The live version on YT is awesome. Great band.

I've been on a Radiohead kick lately. I've finally come to really like their new album. It took awhile.

117 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:14:46pm

Karidine's address bounced.

Darn. re: #104 irongrampa

Which is why we called our friendly moving company on our recent move. Had enough of that shit.

Next time I move, it's going to be done by professionals. I'll even pay them to pack.

Never again will I try to chivvy my unfortunate Male into packing his stuff after he gets home from work (I did mine, but I'm a little obsessive). Never again will I try to pack and clean on moving weekend.

Never, ever again!

118 AmeriDan  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:14:48pm

re: #100 avanti

Hell, that joke is minor brain bleach, I have worse.

I went back and read it. Please spare me your worst.

{ { { Jackson Tn } } }

119 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:14:55pm

Gotta go. Quality family time...

120 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:14:55pm

re: #97 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm not a military person. Ain't thirty meters pretty much point blank for a United States Military Sniper?

At thirty meters, a slam dunk in smooth seas IF they they had a clear shot.

121 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:15:08pm

re: #30 Cobdenite

More importantly, the Administration and the Department of Defense are holding a debate about whether to go ahead and bomb the Somali camps where piracy seems to breed and form links to Al-Q.

The entire frakkin' country is a camp where piracy (not always of the seaborne kind) breeds and links to Al-Qaeda form.

Here's an example of land-based piracy:

Colin Freeman: The moment my Somali kidnap hell began
In the end, we were snared by the very people we'd paid to keep us safe.

Clinton was wrong to pull out of Somalia and leave behind a failed state under Islamic fundamentalist siege. Containment of the Islamic fundamentalist threat doesn't work -- not judging by the way that Islamic fundamentalists project their "power" from bases in failed states.

122 Kenneth  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:15:36pm

Happy Easter, Charles.

Happy Easter, Lizards.

Moving sucks,

At least you have some place to move to.

That's better than some,

Happy Easter.

123 WindHorse  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:15:50pm

Pittsburgh is down 2-0 to Cinci....(So.... they are also pirates)

/grown men also cry.....grown men also cry....

124 jvic  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:16:06pm

This is not a moment for partisanship. Congratulations to the Navy and the Commander-in-Chief.

Obama should invite the crew and the rescuers to the White House, and personally award the decorations that are in order.

125 SteveC  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:16:15pm

re: #109 Mich-again

Pirates don't do ramming speed.

"Bring us alongside the enemy."

126 Perplexed  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:16:16pm

re: #26 Nim Chimpsky

I second Charles's sentiments. Let's give credit where credit is due. H-m-m-m, I just wonder what the press and those on the left would have said if Bush had done it. Should we now call Obama the "Cowboy-in Chief?"

Hell, Bush could have personally cured Michael J Fox, made Christopher Reed walk again, fed the poor, housed the homeless and the left would have found fault in the way the he did it all.

127 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:16:36pm

re: #122 Kenneth

Happy Easter, Charles.

Happy Easter, Lizards.

Moving sucks,

At least you have some place to move to.

That's better than some,

Happy Easter.

Happy Easter to you!

128 dapperdave  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:16:47pm

re: #104 irongrampa

Me too, I'm moving at the end of May and I have everything mapped out 90% of my junk is going in the dumpster.

129 Syrah  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:17:13pm

One of the more interesting things about moving is discovering just how much stuff you actually own, and how much some of that stuff actually owns you.

130 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:17:45pm

re: #111 quickjustice

Olympic target shooting range is 1000 meters from muzzle to target, correct? ... So the Navy had some excellent snipers on this task today. Good for them!



Lots of people can hit a target while standing on solid ground. It takes special skills to do it while the floor is bobbing in the waves.

131 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:17:57pm

re: #117 Dianna

Yeah, we moved this time far enough to justify using pros. We packed it, and they moved the stuff. It was a 200 mile jaunt, so no way was I gonna do THAT.

132 WindHorse  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:18:15pm

re: #129 Syrah

One of the more interesting things about moving is discovering just how much stuff junk you actually own, and how much some of that stuff junk actually owns you.

133 rusty_armor  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:18:21pm

I congratulate the SEALS for carrying out the order to shoot if the Capt. was in danger. I think a better order would have been "Save the Captain, and take maybe a prisoner or two for interrogation."
Congratulate Obama if you must, but I think he gave a weasel order.

134 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:18:22pm

re: #112 Occasional Reader

Unless I badly misheard/misunderstood, Gortney (name right?) who was on the line at the presser said that the ROE was to shoot only if the hostage was in "imminent danger" and NOT to shoot otherwise. That seems dangerously wrong to me. Commanders on the scene should have authority to use deadly force when the opportunity presents itself.

Hmm. I'm not a military man, but I'd say that the minute armed pirates take over a vessel and demand a ransom, anyone else on the vessel is in "imminent danger." And they'll continue to be in "imminent danger" until the vessel has been secured and the pirates neutralized.

Therefore, I'd say the ROE should have been "shoot as soon as you can shoot without compromising the safety of the hostage(s)".

135 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:18:39pm

re: #111 quickjustice

Olympic target shooting range is 1000 meters from muzzle to target, correct? Although the Olympic shooters aren't on the deck of a heaving ship. So the Navy had some excellent snipers on this task today. Good for them!

First Marine sniper squad from Pendelton, according to the KFI guy.

136 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:18:41pm

What does the Army have to say about this outcome? In general, very complimentary on a job well done.

[Link: www.mudvillegazette.com...]

And via Instapundit, the underlying problem is unsolved:

"For my part, I wonder if they'll consider arming crews now? Four pirates can overwhelm a ship crewed by 20+, grab a hostage, and keep the US Navy and two thousand Marines tied up for days? How many such victories can we expect in the future?

Not to discount the very real heroics involved here, and I love this story as much as anyone - but how about we don't hit the snooze button now?

More - Fox News now reporting breaking news: "three simultaneous kill shots to the head!". Amazed, they are.

By the way - SEALs aren't the only human beings capable of such shootin' - just sayin'.

Final thought (for now): Bad timing, and all that - how many times do you think we'll see this event referenced in the upcoming defense budget debates as justification for this or that project whose importance is obvious only now? And who will win the prize for stretching that point the farthest?"

137 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:19:00pm

re: #128 dapperdave

If you've lived any length of time at a particular home, it's astonishing how much gets accumulated.

138 Syrah  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:19:33pm

re: #132 WindHorse

In ten thousand years, it will all be little more than dust.

139 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:19:43pm

re: #103 Sharmuta

Me too.


[Video]

Cash is a big part of the country, rockabilly and early rock and roll scene...I highly respect the man...he was subersive, had personal problems and a genuine American renegade at times...he survived drugs and all sorts of bad shit...a true legend...Keith Richards adored him and copied his music back in the day...Johnny Cash is all that and even more...a giant that told the whole world to fuck off a few times...I can relate...true to the spirit of the music...RIP man in black

140 lifeofthemind  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:19:44pm

Pittsburgh should change their name to the Seals.
Woof

141 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:19:46pm

re: #129 Syrah

One of the more interesting things about moving is discovering just how much stuff you actually own, and how much some of that stuff actually owns you.

One thing I try to do when moving is clear some of the clutter. Once after a move, I discovered I had moved a three year old copy of the yellow pages a couple of times. WTH?

142 Kenneth  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:19:47pm

re: #130 Mich-again

Not only is the marksman bobbing, so is his target. That's no easy shot. Medals for those snippers.

143 obscured by clouds  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:20:00pm
And yes, I know we’re supposed to detest and mock everything President Obama does, on pain of excommunication, but as Commander in Chief he deserves congratulations for handling this one just right.

It's obviously wonderful that the United States Navy rescued the American captain back from the pirates. As Commander in Chief, Obama will certainly take credit for the actions that led to the Captain's safe return. It's good to see the President be successful at something other than campaigning.

But I'm waiting to throw out the "He got it just right" byline when he's taken out a few of the pirate training camps and instilled a back chilling fear of the United States in general among the khat chewing bandits who so easily tie up the shipping lanes off Cape Horn. Toasting Obama for the Navy doing its job according to standing ROE that Obama had nothing to do with is a bit premature, imo. If that captain had not been returned in tact, sans ransom, this episode wouldn've been an epic fail for Obama. Maybe now he's learned that the American Military is a good thing.

144 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:20:54pm

Charles -

YES - The President DOES Deserve Props for Authorizing this One. I give them Knowingly, Intelligently, Voluntarily, and Grudgingly. Let us fight our battles at the margins of economics. As for Foreign Affairs, LET YOUR INNER CHICAGO COME OUT! Does NOT get you loved and DOES get you respected/feared - a reasonable place to start from. With a little work you might just YET become the inheritor of the (Henry) Jacksonian mantle. Think about it Mr. President. Might even get all 'y'all a second term.

-S-

145 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:20:55pm

re: #139 albusteve

How's this do it for you?

146 dapperdave  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:20:57pm

re: #137 irongrampa

I find myself surprised by the amount of stuff one can accumulate over the years.

147 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:21:03pm

re: #143 obscured by clouds

It's obviously wonderful that the United States Navy rescued the American captain back from the pirates. As Commander in Chief, Obama will certainly take credit for the actions that led to the Captain's safe return. It's good to see the President be successful at something other than campaigning.

But I'm waiting to throw out the "He got it just right" byline when he's taken out a few of the pirate training camps and instilled a back chilling fear of the United States in general among the khat chewing bandits who so easily tie up the shipping lanes off Cape Horn. Toasting Obama for the Navy doing its job according to standing ROE that Obama had nothing to do with is a bit premature, imo. If that captain had not been returned in tact, sans ransom, this episode wouldn've been an epic fail for Obama. Maybe now he's learned that the American Military is a good thing.

True. But think about the criticism Obama would have gotten had this failed.

148 tryptic67  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:21:31pm

I need to be reminded again what Obama did that was so great? Not a word from the White House on this matter in days.

If he did order the Navy to end the situation (rather than turfing it to Gates), then it's nothing that he should be congratulated for ... it's the minimum expectation of his office. The kudos would seem to be solely for the Navy personnel and the personal bravery of Captain Richard Phillips of the Alabama who once more risked his life by jumping in the water. You can rest assured that if was a cock-up, Obama would have disavowed any role.

If we want to praise Obama, let's praise him for not immediately closing Gitmo, or precipitously pulling out of Iraq. Let's praise him for trying to stabilize Afghanistan. Let's not give him undue credit for steel, nerve or character simply for ordering a take-down on four pirates in an open boat. Let's seem him actually lead on ending this pirate mess and freeing some 240 other hostages. Then we can offer him praise worthy of the office to which he holds, and not allow him to bask in the reflected glory of the men and women are actually in harm's way.

149 Perplexed  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:21:36pm

Obama might be playing by Chicago rules.

150 solomonpanting  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:22:15pm

Big Bear Paw

Big Bear


The downloaded pictures are of a man who works for the US Forest Service in Alaska and the bear he had to kill (killed in self defense).
He was out deer hunting last week when a large grizzly bear charged him from about 50 yards away. The guy emptied his 7mm Magnum semi-automatic rifle into the bear and it dropped a few feet from him. The big bear was still alive so he reloaded and shot it several times in the head.
The bear was just over one thousand six hundred pounds. It stood 12' 6" high at the shoulder, 14' to the top of his head. It's the largest grizzly bear ever recorded in the world.
Of course, the Alaska Fish and Wildlife Commission did not let him keep it as a trophy, but the bear will be stuffed and mounted, and placed on display at the Anchorage airport to remind tourists of the risks involved when in the wild.
Based on the contents of the bears stomach, the Fish and Wildlife Commission established the bear had killed at least two humans in the past 72 hours including a missing hiker.
The US Forest Service, backtracking from where the bear had originated, found the hiker's 38-caliber pistol emptied. Not far from the pistol were the remains of the hiker. The other body has not been found.
Although the hiker fired six shots and managed to hit the grizzly with four shots (the Service ultimately found four 38 caliber slugs along with twelve 7mm slugs inside the bear's dead body), it only wounded the bear and probably angered it immensely.
The bear killed the hiker an estimated two days prior to the bear's own death by the gun of the Forest Service worker.
Think about this:
If you are an average size man; You would be level with the bear's navel when he stood upright. The bear would look you in the eye when it walked on all fours! To give additional perspective, consider that this particular bear, standing on its hind legs, could walk up to an average single story house and look over the roof, or walk up to a two story house and look in the bedroom windows.
151 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:22:20pm

re: #85 itellu3times

Late word is he did NOT jump in the second time, but was tied up in the boat.

... which was under tow and 30 meters from the fantail and Marine snipers.

If that's so, those were some really stupid pirates.

I still wonder, however, how it is that they were able to force Capt. Phillips back in the boat after he jumped out on his escape attempt. One would have thought that the moment he hit the water, the pirates would experience immediate dissuasion from poking their heads above the gunwales, much less firing at the escapee.

152 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:23:23pm

"To the Shores of Tripoli"-- Marines up against pirates once again. Semper Fi, guys!

And as an earlier commentator has noted, the snipers were marines, not SEALS.

153 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:24:18pm

re: #133 rusty_armor

Um...nothing personal... I call bull-shit.

154 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:24:40pm

re: #145 Sharmuta

How's this do it for you?


[Video]

there you have it...pure simple R/B...the newer bands carried the torch of their Elders

155 Perplexed  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:24:53pm

re: #147 Gus 802

True. But think about the criticism Obama would have gotten had this failed.

Would have depended on how it failed. Capitulation and paying a ransom would have been disastrous. Hostage being killed by our military, bad, still shows some leadership on the part of Obama. Hostage being killed and the pirates walking away from it all - very, very bad.

156 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:25:12pm

re: #151 stuiec

I still wonder, however, how it is that they were able to force Capt. Phillips back in the boat after he jumped out on his escape attempt. One would have thought that the moment he hit the water, the pirates would experience immediate dissuasion from poking their heads above the gunwales, much less firing at the escapee.

I still don't understand that part. Wouldn't that have been an excellent opportunity for the Navy to turn all of them into little pirate pieces, thereby saving the captain a few days of agony and danger, and avoiding having to risk the sniper shots?

157 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:25:29pm

re: #148 tryptic67

I need to be reminded again what Obama did that was so great? Not a word from the White House on this matter in days.

I think maybe you answered your own question there. HELLO!

158 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:25:37pm

Good job Obama on letting the manliest of men do their jobs. I'm still watching every move you make because you are a child and need supervision.

159 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:25:40pm

re: #147 Gus 802

True. But think about the criticism Obama would have gotten had this failed.

Do you think, had that been the case, that it would have led back to Obama, or do you think his spinners would have blamed the military somehow?

Also - if anyone noticed - were the sources describing Obama's involvment in this named? I thought I saw "an anonymous source" in one of the earliest articles; I was wondering if anyone has come forward to speak on the record yet. I don't need a list of the names - just wondering if anyone noticed names connected to this.

160 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:26:04pm

re: #147 Gus 802

True. But think about the criticism Obama would have gotten had this failed.

The same any President would have received had this failed. It goes with the territory.

161 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:26:09pm

re: #126 Perplexed

Perplexed -

Except for Michael J. Fox, and Christoper Reed, seems that that alternative fuel (CNG) truck driving Texan who was Our President for 8 years gets no credit or props fro the rest of it which he did DO. Wonder why?

-S-

162 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:26:13pm

re: #156 Last Mohican

Were the Marines on the scene at the time of Capt. Phillips' fist escape attempt?

163 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:26:14pm

tell me these guys don't pay their dues....Beatles cover Matchbox

164 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:26:17pm

re: #154 albusteve

I thought you might like it.

165 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:26:33pm

..first escape attempt...

166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:26:55pm

Pillowtop mattress callin' my name...

Night!

167 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:27:14pm

re: #151 stuiec

If that's so, those were some really stupid pirates.

I still wonder, however, how it is that they were able to force Capt. Phillips back in the boat after he jumped out on his escape attempt. One would have thought that the moment he hit the water, the pirates would experience immediate dissuasion from poking their heads above the gunwales, much less firing at the escapee.

The pirates really had few choices, no choices, against a commander who was going to act.

But that same commander was apparently plain not ready, when Phillips jumped out. At that point I believe they were not nearly as close, and by the sound of it, other plans were afoot.

168 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:27:32pm

How about some real blues? One of my favorites from SRV

169 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:27:51pm

re: #155 Perplexed

Would have depended on how it failed. Capitulation and paying a ransom would have been disastrous. Hostage being killed by our military, bad, still shows some leadership on the part of Obama. Hostage being killed and the pirates walking away from it all - very, very bad.

Of course it would have depended on the outcome. However people were already quick to call it a failure prior to it's completion and were immediately predicting that we are looking for another 444 days of captivity and the he was already Carter II. Thus the groundwork was set for the criticism he would have received.

So it seems that it would be acceptable to criticize him for a perceived failure yet now that it's a success it's not acceptable (for some not all) to praise him? Somehow I don't follow the logic.

170 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:27:58pm

re: #133 rusty_armor

I congratulate the SEALS for carrying out the order to shoot if the Capt. was in danger. I think a better order would have been "Save the Captain, and take maybe a prisoner or two for interrogation."
Congratulate Obama if you must, but I think he gave a weasel order.

It sounds to me like the rules of engagement the sailors and Marines were operating under were the same rules of engagement a SWAT team operates under in a hostage situation. It makes perfect sense if the underlying philosophy is that this was a law enforcement situation, as opposed to a military engagement.

I don't know: was this a law enforcement situation or a military engagement?

171 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:28:03pm

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Pillowtop mattress callin' my name...

Night!

yeah. me too. I'm going into a food coma.

172 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:28:04pm

re: #162 jaunte

Were the Marines on the scene at the time of Capt. Phillips' fist escape attempt?

The U.S.S. Bainbridge was there, as I recall - but I thought I also heard that the snipers were dropped in somehow, and I don't know when.

So much information flying. This story has been morphing all day.

173 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:28:07pm

re: #163 albusteve

tell me these guys don't pay their dues....Beatles cover Matchbox


[Video]

if you don't want my peaches honey ... love it ...

174 eddiespaghetti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:28:41pm

Here we go, west coast 60 minutes on the "gun grabber" theme. Ban guns and you ensure only criminals and cops have guns...

175 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:28:48pm

re: #159 capitalist piglet

Do you think, had that been the case, that it would have led back to Obama, or do you think his spinners would have blamed the military somehow?

Also - if anyone noticed - were the sources describing Obama's involvment in this named? I thought I saw "an anonymous source" in one of the earliest articles; I was wondering if anyone has come forward to speak on the record yet. I don't need a list of the names - just wondering if anyone noticed names connected to this.

Probably both or a combination.

176 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:28:57pm

President Obama (Look folks! I wrote it out in English!) finally acted in the best interests of the United States.

177 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:29:22pm

re: #172 capitalist piglet

Yes, I thought I heard a report that the snipers dropped in, out of sight of the pirates.

178 lifeofthemind  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:29:33pm

re: #150 solomonpanting

Big Bear Paw

Big Bear

The Forest Service has some of the most intensively trained Law Enforcement Officers in the world. They spend almost all their time at FLETC (The Federal Law Enforcement Training Center) in camouflage. They are usually alone in the Wilderness, far from any help. Not only are dangerous carnivores out there but also two legged menaces, illegal alien traffickers, escaped criminals and especially drug dealers and cultivators.

179 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:29:35pm

re: #174 eddiespaghetti

Here we go, west coast 60 minutes on the "gun grabber" theme. Ban guns and you ensure only criminals and cops have guns...

The media is revving up the masses.

180 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:29:37pm

Beatles do Chuck Berry...big time


181 AlexM  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:30:09pm

Obama DID NOT approve a rescue mission. He merely permitted lethal intervention if the captain's life was in immediate danger, which quite frankly, is why the Navy is being forced to offer excuses where none should be necessary. This is a clear example of the armed forces doing the right thing on their own initiative by taking advantage of a loophole in the orders of higher-ups who had tied their hands.

The proof? We're hearing that "someone was pointing a gun at the man" and officers "felt his life was in immediate danger" although these pirates have NEVER ONCE killed one of their prisoners and could have quite easily killed this American if that was actually their intention. (I'm not making excuses for the pirates, mind you, because they deserved to be shot for piracy on the high seas.) In short, the Navy is being forced to cover their asses for taking these criminals down and has been put in the position of needing to present a questionable storyline when none should be required.

182 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:30:10pm

re: #152 quickjustice

And as an earlier commentator has noted, the snipers were marines, not SEALS.

Same team.

183 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:30:14pm

Anyone interested in the Daily Kos take on today's events?

For the most part, they're just praising Obama's wonderful leadership. But then there's this angle:

I wonder which principled member of our corporate media will point out that, in the big picture, the Somali pirates are acting in self-defense?

You see, this is actually all the Europeans' fault (aren't you surprised it's not America's fault or the Jews' fault this time?) Here's the idea:

European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish stocks by overexploitation – and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m-worth of tuna, shrimp, and lobster are being stolen every year by illegal trawlers. The local fishermen are now starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia – and ordinary Somalis agree. The independent Somalian news site WardheerNews found 70 per cent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence".

184 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:30:19pm

I'd like to say thanks to President 0bama for not pulling a Carter and leaving that brave American hanging out to dry for 444 days.

185 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:30:38pm

A little bit of saber (or whatever it is they rattle in Somalia) rattling from the publicly, at least, undaunted colleagues of those killed today:

Abdullahi Lami, one of the pirates holding the Greek ship anchored in the Somali town of Gaan, said: "Every country will be treated the way it treats us. In the future, America will be the one mourning and crying," he told The Associated Press. "We will retaliate (for) the killings of our men."

Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old self-proclaimed pirate, told the AP from one of Somalia's piracy hubs, Eyl, that: "From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them (the hostages)."

"Now they became our number one enemy," Habeb said of U.S. forces.

186 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:30:54pm

re: #116 Bloodnok

You got me on a kick now. I've been watching live songs for several minutes. I saw them 5 years ago: sounded great, in tune and key.

187 Perplexed  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:30:56pm

re: #161 Dr. Shalit

Perplexed -

Except for Michael J. Fox, and Christoper Reed, seems that that alternative fuel (CNG) truck driving Texan who was Our President for 8 years gets no credit or props fro the rest of it which he did DO. Wonder why?

-S-

Ever notice how the homeless and those without medical insurance only seem to surface in the news when Republicans are in office? Wonder where they go when 'rats are in office. Nothing a Republican would ever do that would satisfy the liberals.

188 Syrah  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:31:14pm

Robert Johnson-I Believe I'll Dust My Broom

Long ago, back in college, we would all play cards, drink cheap bourbon, and sing and play this stuff late into the night until the sunrise or the cops came by.

I have no idea how or why the neighbors were as tolerant with us as they were.

189 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:31:27pm

re: #178 lifeofthemind

Considering that the grizzly in question had killed and eaten two other people (including an armed hiker) just days before this attack, I'd say that the Forest Service employee was both skilled and lucky.

190 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:31:41pm

I'm still continuing the list for Charles tonight of things i'd rather do than move.
I need more ideas lizards..
11.. Spend 24 hours in a drunk tank completely sober
12. Goto the Blackhole at a Oakland Raiders game in a 49er Jersey
13. Go through a very messy high profile divorce case..And your High class hooker and Wife are on the Larry King show.
14. ......

191 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:31:56pm

re: #180 albusteve

Beatles doing Little Richard

192 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:32:07pm

re: #183 Last Mohican

Every silver lining has a cloud.

193 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:32:15pm

re: #168 Sharmuta

How about some real blues? One of my favorites from SRV


[Video]

oh GAWD!

194 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:32:18pm

OT: My phuckin' neighbor has been going back and forth doing laundry or something all day long and opening and closing his door since 10:30 AM. I'm about ready to explode since he slams his door. And he walks down the hallway like his hair is on fire.

///Grrrrrrrrr.

195 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:32:21pm

re: #190 HoosierHoops

I'm still continuing the list for Charles tonight of things i'd rather do than move.
I need more ideas lizards..
11.. Spend 24 hours in a drunk tank completely sober
12. Goto the Blackhole at a Oakland Raiders game in a 49er Jersey
13. Go through a very messy high profile divorce case..And your High class hooker and Wife are on the Larry King show.
14. ......

tooth pulled ...

196 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:32:47pm

re: #181 AlexM

Obama DID NOT approve a rescue mission.

The 48 hour rule is still in effect, but the report I heard said the command had standing orders allowing him to do what he did. Did he really talk to the white house? Yet to be made clear. Even if so, all the president had to say, was carry on.

197 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:32:48pm

re: #185 capitalist piglet

Jamac's been watching too much Blackhawk Down.

198 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:33:02pm

re: #167 itellu3times

The pirates really had few choices, no choices, against a commander who was going to act.

But that same commander was apparently plain not ready, when Phillips jumped out. At that point I believe they were not nearly as close, and by the sound of it, other plans were afoot.

By "stupid," I refer to the pirates agreeing to be towed within that distance of the Navy ship. Beyond that, that more than one would expose himself to sniper fire shows that they weren't expecting the response they got.

I'd say it would be appropriate to give quite a few more seafaring hostage-takers that sort of response, preferably before they got their hands on their targeted hostages, to train others to stick to fishing for fish and not for ransom.

199 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:33:14pm

re: #144 Dr. Shalit

Reply to Self -

I AM TALKING TO YOU - MESSR'S. AXLEROD and RAHM. Give the US Military achievable goals and they will accomplish them. They are a better bet than your "Santa Claus" voters. That is all.

-S-

200 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:33:19pm

re: #186 BigPapa

You got me on a kick now. I've been watching live songs for several minutes. I saw them 5 years ago: sounded great, in tune and key.

Never saw 'em. But there are tons of live vids on YT. They almost always sound good and those are some difficult songs to play. That's why I like them. Their choice of instrumentation and equipment reminds me of Pink Floyd.

201 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:33:28pm

re: #194 Gus 802

OT: My phuckin' neighbor has been going back and forth doing laundry or something all day long and opening and closing his door since 10:30 AM. I'm about ready to explode since he slams his door. And he walks down the hallway like his hair is on fire.

///Grrrrrrrrr.

Put your heavy metal on "Deafen" and forget all about that stupid neighbor.

202 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:33:36pm

re: #182 Mich-again

Interesting. I don't know how the combat teams are configured or tasked. Are the SEALS in the water while the Marines snipe from the ship? Or does it depend on the tactical situation?

203 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:33:50pm

re: #191 Sharmuta

Beatles doing Little Richard


[Video]

you got files...I know you do!...I can't keep up...nice
covers are a whole trivia thing....

204 iLikeCandy  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:34:03pm

If Bush had done this, the left would be calling him a racist, bullying, unilateralist cowboy and pointing out that Halliburton manufactured the snipers' bullets.

BUT NEVER MIND! I'm delighted everyone (except the pirates) is safe. What an Easter.

U S A!
U S A!
U S A!

205 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:34:22pm

re: #201 Alouette

Put your heavy metal on "Deafen" and forget all about that stupid neighbor.

Yeah. I have headphones. Don't want to start any music wars having been through that once before.

206 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:34:41pm

re: #190 HoosierHoops

Watching Rosie O'Donnell exercise in Spandex.

207 formercorpsman  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:34:43pm

re: #185 capitalist piglet

Dust em.

208 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:34:56pm

re: #170 stuiec

I don't know: was this a law enforcement situation or a military engagement?

Well, now that it's over, it is apparently going to be treated as a criminal matter, rather than a military one:

"[The captured pirate is] in military custody right now," FBI spokesman John Miller said. "That will change as this becomes more of a criminal issue than a military issue."

I can't help but be reminded of the several times when President Clinton had the opportunity to terminate Osama bin Laden, but ordered the military not to do so, because he was concerned that the U.S. Attorney hadn't yet accumulated enough evidence to mount a strong prosecution in court.

209 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:35:05pm

re: #203 albusteve

Beatles doing more Perkins

210 A.W.  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:35:14pm

More like, he did badly for a while, and we learned alot about how stupid alot of the law of the sea is, and then he ended it well. Good joss.

211 avspatti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:35:34pm

The President certainly did the right thing today. I am relieved to see the Captain rescued, and it doesn't hurt my feelings any to see that most of the pirates got what was coming. Fewer pirates is always a good thing.

212 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:35:37pm

re: #194 Gus 802

OT: My phuckin' neighbor has been going back and forth doing laundry or something all day long and opening and closing his door since 10:30 AM. I'm about ready to explode since he slams his door. And he walks down the hallway like his hair is on fire.

///Grrrrrrrrr.

You need to set a tripwire.

213 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:35:43pm

re: #195 JacksonTn

tooth pulled ...

A Barry Manilow Marathon

214 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:36:25pm

Raitt covers SRV...again

215 solomonpanting  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:36:25pm

re: #178 lifeofthemind

Not only are dangerous carnivores out there but also two legged menaces, illegal alien traffickers, escaped criminals and especially drug dealers and cultivators.

And they shoot back.

216 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:36:47pm

re: #21 Sharmuta

Louis Armstrong and Johnny Cash


[Video]

That was a real treat. Thanks a lot, Sharmuta!

217 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:36:49pm

re: #213 HoosierHoops

A Barry Manilow Marathon

noooooo ... draw the line on that one ... I would carry a sleeper all day long before I would listen to Barry Manilow ... at the Copa Hell ...

218 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:36:53pm

I'm glad to see that patriotism isn't completely dead on the right. Obama, like it or not, is the president. His decisions control our fate and I'm happy to cheer him on.

219 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:36:58pm

re: #212 Sosigado

You need to set a tripwire.

That might work. Then a net and throw him out the window!

///Kidding of course.

220 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:37:28pm

re: #197 jaunte

Jamac's been watching too much Blackhawk Down.

He'd best hope the situation isn't like Blackhawk Down. We lost fewer than 20 men and killed more than 1000 of the enemy. I wouldn't call that a defeat.

221 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:37:43pm

re: #216 Archimedes

I'm glad at least a couple people enjoyed it. I thought it was great.

222 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:37:44pm

re: #172 capitalist piglet

The U.S.S. Bainbridge was there, as I recall - but I thought I also heard that the snipers were dropped in somehow, and I don't know when.

So much information flying. This story has been morphing all day.

Here's my question: if you see that the hostage is no longer in the pirated vessel, does it really take precision sniper fire to suppress the pirates' fire at the hostage? Wouldn't raking the vessel with machine-gun fire or firing a small shell over it do the trick?

That is, if the hostage jumped out on the side of the vessel toward the Navy ship and presuming that the ship had the pirated vessel under constant surveillance. Or presuming the Navy ship had deployed a surveillance capability to detect the hostage jumping overboard no matter from which side of the vessel.

And, of course, presuming that the rules of engagement permitted firing on the pirates even if the hostage was no longer directly under their control.

So many questions....

223 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:37:45pm

re: #201 Alouette

Put your heavy metal on "Deafen" and forget all about that stupid neighbor.

Or better yet, jam their cable signal and substitute the following video which is NOT SAFE FOR WORK!

224 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:37:55pm

re: #209 Sharmuta

Beatles doing more Perkins


[Video]

one of my all time favorites...I loved those years

225 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:38:05pm

Soundgarden doing The Beatles

226 eddiespaghetti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:38:07pm

Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old self-proclaimed pirate, told the AP from one of Somalia's piracy hubs, Eyl, that: "From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them (the hostages)."

"Now they became our number one enemy," Habeb said of U.S. forces.

Self proclaimed pirate, what an asshole.

227 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:38:14pm

re: #206 irongrampa

EEEEWWWWWW!

228 Boxy_brown  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:38:15pm

Really trying to figure out what Obama actually did here.

Captain Phillips saved his ship...

The US Navy saved Phillips...

Obama picked out a dog...

229 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:38:24pm

re: #220 Dark_Falcon

He'd best hope the situation isn't like Blackhawk Down. We lost fewer than 20 men and killed more than 1000 of the enemy. I wouldn't call that a defeat.

Yeah, I don't think he gets it. I read somewhere that the movie was very popular in Somalia, because they saw it as a 'win.'

230 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:38:33pm

re: #194 Gus 802

OT: My phuckin' neighbor has been going back and forth doing laundry or something all day long and opening and closing his door since 10:30 AM. I'm about ready to explode since he slams his door. And he walks down the hallway like his hair is on fire.

///Grrrrrrrrr.

Where do you live? And who "walks" when their hair is on fire?

231 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:38:47pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

I'm glad to see that patriotism isn't completely dead on the right.

Whatever.

232 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:39:10pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

I'm glad to see that patriotism isn't completely dead on the right. Obama, like it or not, is the president. His decisions control our fate and I'm happy to cheer him on.

Dang Killgore ... why you bashing backhanded ... patriotism is way more present in the right than the left ever is ... we gave the props ... this time because he supported the military in doing what they are trained and sworn to do ...

233 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:39:13pm

re: #168 Sharmuta

I saw SRV about 3 months before he died. He was in that 'out there' plane that night where he seemed to play every note perfect. Still one of the best shows I've ever been to.

234 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:39:21pm

SRV covers Hendrix....Little Wing


235 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:39:37pm

re: #231 Sosigado

Whatever.

Whatever.

236 Truck Monkey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:39:38pm

re: #190 HoosierHoops

I'm still continuing the list for Charles tonight of things i'd rather do than move.
I need more ideas lizards..
11.. Spend 24 hours in a drunk tank completely sober
12. Goto the Blackhole at a Oakland Raiders game in a 49er Jersey
13. Go through a very messy high profile divorce case..And your High class hooker and Wife are on the Larry King show.
14. ......

14. Slide down a 50 foot razor blade into a pool of isopropyl alcohol.

237 formercorpsman  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:39:44pm

re: #208 Last Mohican

As well, I think another angle to be considered on that, in their penchant for international law.

Although I can't say for sure, but taking a deliberate act of war like this piracy incident, and then placing it under the domain of criminal jurisdiction provides enough rationale to at consider this as a reason.

238 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:39:46pm

re: #228 Boxy_brown

Really trying to figure out what Obama actually did here.

Captain Phillips saved his ship...

The US Navy saved Phillips...

Obama picked out a dog...

"Obama had given standing orders for the military to take "decisive action" if Phillips was in "imminent danger," Gortney said."

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

239 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:39:50pm

re: #208 Last Mohican

You mean, like when the first World Trade Center attack (the 1993 bombing) was treated as a criminal matter and not as an act of war by a non-state actor?

240 Perplexed  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:39:54pm

re: #228 Boxy_brown

Really trying to figure out what Obama actually did here.

Captain Phillips saved his ship...

The US Navy saved Phillips...

Obama picked out a dog...

He stayed the hell out of the way. Either lead, follow or get out of the way.

241 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:39:59pm

re: #230 Mich-again

Where do you live? And who "walks" when their hair is on fire?

An apartment. I suppose they run but this like the heavy foot thing that he does. Stomp, stomp, stomp. Back and forth. Probably on drugs. He's some club kid.

242 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:40:26pm

re: #228 Boxy_brown

Really trying to figure out what Obama actually did here.

Captain Phillips saved his ship...

The US Navy saved Phillips...

Obama picked out a dog...

Obama got out of the way. I'm glad someone said it.

243 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:40:27pm

re: #225 NYCHardhat

Soundgarden doing The Beatles


[Video]

whoa....heavy dude

244 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:40:28pm

re: #228 Boxy_brown

Really trying to figure out what Obama actually did here.

Captain Phillips saved his ship...

The US Navy saved Phillips...

Obama picked out a dog...

Well, he didn't actually pick out the dog. It was a gift from Ted Kennedy and his wife.

245 eddiespaghetti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:40:28pm

re: #234 albusteve

That is one of the all time greatest IMAO.

246 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:40:30pm

re: #227 Macker

Yeah, that's wrong on so many levels. Don't know what got into me.

247 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:40:34pm

re: #225 NYCHardhat

Beatles covers suck. Except that version of Help! that U2 did.

The song was meant to be slow. It was sped up for pop purposes, and the feeling of it was lost, imo, by doing so.

248 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:40:37pm

re: #226 eddiespaghetti

Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old self-proclaimed pirate, told the AP from one of Somalia's piracy hubs, Eyl, that: "From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them (the hostages)."

"Now they became our number one enemy," Habeb said of U.S. forces.

Self proclaimed pirate, what an asshole.

Flatten Eyl.

249 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:41:19pm

re: #220 Dark_Falcon

He'd best hope the situation isn't like Blackhawk Down. We lost fewer than 20 men and killed more than 1000 of the enemy. I wouldn't call that a defeat.

no but it was needless just the same...the mission failed

250 So?  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:41:24pm

re: #54 HoosierHoops
re: #58 Racer X

Now on the other hand - if Obama had said a few days ago "I have instructed our military to take whatever steps are necessary to secure the safe return of the American hostage", then today I would give him some credit.


Give him a break, he was too busy bowing.

251 jayzee  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:41:24pm

We did good today and Obama did right to authorize the use of force. I was never concerned about whether we'd hit back if hit. My concern is, will we wait until we are hit or maintain the "Bush Doctorine" moving forward. The jury is out on that still.

252 Boxy_brown  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:41:55pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

"Obama had given standing orders for the military to take "decisive action" if Phillips was in "imminent danger," Gortney said."

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Gee, innovative and heroic. Same rules of engagement the Navy usually has when American life is in danger.

253 Salem  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:42:05pm

Hey, I'd smoke a J with Obama. But the moment he starts yammering about the Glorious Revolution I'm outta there.

254 Kostya Lotz  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:42:13pm

Maybe this more like Charles' move
Your text to link...

255 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:42:20pm

Jumping in the water could be considered "imminent danger".

256 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:42:21pm

re: #217 JacksonTn

noooooo ... draw the line on that one ... I would carry a sleeper all day long before I would listen to Barry Manilow ... at the Copa Hell ...

There is always that reoccurring nightmare of being married to Joan Rivers..Waking up screaming with uncontrollable shaking...

257 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:42:29pm

re: #233 BigPapa

I saw SRV about 3 months before he died. He was in that 'out there' plane that night where he seemed to play every note perfect. Still one of the best shows I've ever been to.

he never missed a note...ever...not even one

258 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:42:42pm

re: #247 Sharmuta

Beatles covers suck. Except that version of Help! that U2 did.


[Video]

The song was meant to be slow. It was sped up for pop purposes, and the feeling of it was lost, imo, by doing so.

I agree with you. How can you cover perfection? But if you are going to do a cover of a song, make it your own.

259 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:42:43pm

re: #168 Sharmuta

How about some real blues? One of my favorites from SRV


sharmuta -

Still Her Kansas City Boy! Knew, Videoed and Played with a cover artist who could do this one and several others better than original, in fact, this recording sounds more like "him" than SRV. All due props to Ritchie ("I'm From Verona") Veri. Great clip.

-S-

260 Boxy_brown  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:42:44pm

re: #244 Last Mohican

Well, he didn't actually pick out the dog. It was a gift from Ted Kennedy and his wife.

LOL, Even better:

Captain Phillips saved his ship...

The US Navy saved Phillips...

Obama picked out a dog...

261 formercorpsman  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:42:45pm

re: #234 albusteve

Whatever SRV was on when he did that, he was flying in every sense of the word.

He is outta control on that one. Wild, wild stuff.

262 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:43:09pm

re: #251 jayzee

I'm thinking it will be treated as a criminal offense going forward.

Not good.

263 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:43:16pm

re: #247 Sharmuta

Beatles covers suck. Except that version of Help! that U2 did.


[Video]

The song was meant to be slow. It was sped up for pop purposes, and the feeling of it was lost, imo, by doing so.

don't do it...do NOT cover the Beatles

264 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:43:44pm

re: #220 Dark_Falcon

Here's the item I remembered:
Somalis cheer Black Hawk Down
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

265 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:44:07pm

re: #263 albusteve

don't do it...do NOT cover the Beatles

Especially if you're eddie vedder.

266 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:44:17pm

re: #265 Sharmuta

Especially if you're eddie vedder.

LMAO!

267 Perplexed  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:44:30pm

re: #262 irongrampa

I'm thinking it will be treated as a criminal offense going forward.

Not good.

Navy trial at sea. Conviction then execution of sentence.

268 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:44:41pm

re: #249 albusteve

no but it was needless just the same...the mission failed

If it was a victory for the Islamists, it was a Pyrrhic victory.

269 Orangutan  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:44:41pm

Agreed....moving sucks.

As for the handling of the pirates, I salute our Navy and also the President for authorizing some proportionate action. Perhaps few here recall how Obama's precedent, Carter, ordered a raid to save the hostages from Iran......and it failed in a tragic helicopter crash. I think that failure (among some others) led to a dramatically better counterinsurgency/special ops arm which has rendered Carter II more effective.

Therefore, the real test remains to be seen.....what do we do vis-a-vis the sabre-rattling and threats issued by the pirate-types. Are there more incidents, as they promise? or does Obama act like both Bushes before him and take some sort of pre-emptive action against looming threats? Zell Miller described terrorists as copperheads....and to killing a copperhead with a shovel as pre-emptive action, noting you don't wait for the poisonous snake to attack your family. Well, the Somalia-based pirates have identified themselves and made more threats....do we slash the Navy's budget and apologize for our relative lack of Muslim heritage? Do we beg Europe to protect the seas with all their naval might? do we call in the Japanese Navy to patrol this vital shipping lane, which ships so much through the Suez? What say you, in this land of Hopenchange?

270 Aviator  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:45:05pm

Based on the various stories I've seen and reading between the lines this is what I suspect happened:
The underlying ROE was lethal force if someone's life was in immediate danger.
Obama on two ocassions reconfirmed the ROE and did not authorize any rescue action.
The on scene commander authorized the fire when the situation could be construed as immediate danger.

Might be wrong, it will be interesting to hear the real story.

I will give him credit for not telling the USN to stand down or "arrest" the pirates.

271 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:45:18pm

re: #266 NYCHardhat

I can't stand him. Dianna thinks she may have smacked him. I hope she did.

272 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:45:39pm

re: #226 eddiespaghetti

Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old self-proclaimed pirate, told the AP from one of Somalia's piracy hubs, Eyl, that: "From now on, if we capture foreign ships and their respective countries try to attack us, we will kill them (the hostages)."

"Now they became our number one enemy," Habeb said of U.S. forces.

Self proclaimed pirate, what an asshole.

eddiespaghetti -

Remind said voidoid of the Marine Maxim, taken from the actions of Ancient Rome - "No Better Friend - No Worse Enemy."

-S-

273 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:46:01pm

re: #263 albusteve

don't do it...do NOT cover the Beatles

See. I say, cover what you want, but have fun with it. Don't be a pretentious slob like vedder and try and "reimagine" the song.

274 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:46:21pm

re: #271 Sharmuta

I can't stand him. Dianna thinks she may have smacked him. I hope she did.

You just keep getting cooler and cooler.

275 jayzee  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:46:25pm

re: #262 irongrampa

I'm thinking it will be treated as a criminal offense going forward.

Not good.

I'm thinking you're right, primarily because of President Obama's own statements. Remember, even Carter tried to deal with hostage situation using force, and something good (Delta) came out of the failure, however, he was still enormously weak when it came to dealing with our enemies. Nonetheless, today was a good day for the US.

276 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:46:28pm

re: #269 Orangutan

Burn the pirates boats.

277 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:46:32pm

re: #221 Sharmuta

I'm glad at least a couple people enjoyed it. I thought it was great.

Two legends from different musical worlds and from different times. Both are no longer with us.

That was about 40 years ago, and they were playing in remembrance of something Louie Armstrong played with Jimmie Rogers 40 years prior to that. So here we sit in remembrance of their remembrance looking as far back as they were.

That's a real slice of America.

278 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:46:36pm

re: #260 Boxy_brown

Well, Obama did at least name the dog. He deserves credit for that.

Actually, on second thought, I think Sasha and Malia named the dog.

279 Racer X  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:46:40pm

re: #238 Walter L. Newton

"Obama had given standing orders for the military to take "decisive action" if Phillips was in "imminent danger," Gortney said."

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

Does this really count as an executive decision?

280 sleepyone  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:46:42pm

While I'm grateful that Obama did the right thing by giving these orders I think some folks may be falling over themselves to "congratulate" the President by saying he did the right thing because it's the last thing a lot of us expected him to do. Basically he is doing his job as the President of the United States with something like this but because our (at least some of us) expectations of him are so low it comes as a surprise when he actually does something that benefits an American citizen.

At least that's the way I see it.

281 formercorpsman  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:47:00pm

re: #271 Sharmuta

Smacked Eddie Vetter?

282 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:47:24pm

For Sharm.

283 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:47:34pm

re: #229 jaunte

Yeah, I don't think he gets it. I read somewhere that the movie was very popular in Somalia, because they saw it as a 'win.'

That's because they don't see 1,000 lives of their cannon fodder worth anything like we see the lives of 20 of our soldiers. Look at the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s and the Iranian strategy of human wave attacks and using children to sweep minefields on foot (their detection method being to use their feet to detonate the mines).

The strategists on the Islamic extremist side don't care how many of their own die, so long as they get us to do what they want us to do. In the case of Mogadishu, 1,000 of their men, women and children were an easy price to pay to get the Great Satan out of Somalia, so they could get back to the business of creating a base of operations for Islamic fundamentalism.

The Black Hawk Down incident was only a victory for the US in a numeric sense. In the sense of meeting military and geopolitical objectives, it was a crushing defeat for the US.

284 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:47:43pm

re: #270 Aviator

ROE is a standing order, unless rescinded. Only reason to re-issue would be for clarification,iirc.

285 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:47:50pm

re: #270 Aviator

It sounds like the commander took three days to cozy the pirates down to 30 meter range, and then decided that he had the drop. I'd say Philliips' life was in immanent danger for the full time he was in captivity.

286 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:47:52pm

Went over to grandma's earlier today to say "hi" and check in on her, and she was watching some real weird shit on the TV. It looked like some kind of Hellraiser type torture/gore flick. At first I thought it might be one of those SAW films (I've never seen SAW). I asked her "Are you sure you want to be watching this"? She said "Hell is not a place you want to be".

Naturally I WTFed, and checked the channel. I thought for sure she was watching some sick horror film by mistake. It was a TBN program showing a clip from a movie.

I had to dig around a bit to find out WTF it was. Turns out it was the "Hell" scene from a film entitled M10.28.

I can't find the clip by itself and in it's original form, only this one (starts at about the 1:45 mark). Here it's pieced together with another similar hell type clip, and mostly overdubbed by various audio clips from sermons. It's a shame about the audio, as the sound of the original alone was gruesome enough to make average children wet their pants.

This kind of thing should not be on a show that is rated G.

287 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:48:02pm

re: #261 formercorpsman

Whatever SRV was on when he did that, he was flying in every sense of the word.

He is outta control on that one. Wild, wild stuff.

he's just really good...watch his fingers man....unreal

288 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:48:23pm

re: #281 formercorpsman

Smacked Eddie Vetter?

No- eddie vedder. From pearl jam.

289 eddiespaghetti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:49:08pm

re: #281 formercorpsman

He needs smacking, irregarlessly.

290 Boxy_brown  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:49:12pm

re: #278 Last Mohican

Well, Obama did at least name the dog. He deserves credit for that.

Actually, on second thought, I think Sasha and Malia named the dog.



Maybe Barack can teach Bo not to carpet surf in the oval office... After they housebreak Joe biden.

291 jayzee  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:49:19pm

re: #280 sleepyone

While I'm grateful that Obama did the right thing by giving these orders I think some folks may be falling over themselves to "congratulate" the President by saying he did the right thing because it's the last thing a lot of us expected him to do. Basically he is doing his job as the President of the United States with something like this but because our (at least some of us) expectations of him are so low it comes as a surprise when he actually does something that benefits an American citizen.

At least that's the way I see it.

I agree, he did what he should have done, but how many presidents don't? What about the story the executive branch telling the CIA to stand down when OBL was in their sites?

292 Sleepyone  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:49:31pm

re: #247 Sharmuta

Beatles covers suck. Except that version of Help! that U2 did.


[Video]The song was meant to be slow. It was sped up for pop purposes, and the feeling of it was lost, imo, by doing so.

I think Siouxsie and the Banshees did a pretty decent version of Dear Prudence.

But in general I agree, one shouldn't try to cover the Beatles.

293 ConservatismNow!  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:49:36pm

Holy crap lizards. Some chicky in my Humanities class said World War II was not necessary. I guess we should have just let the Art School Dropout have Poland. I tried very hard not to lay into her too much.

294 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:49:40pm

re: #263 albusteve

don't do it...do NOT cover the Beatles

I beg to differ with you; here's Leo Sayer:

295 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:49:42pm

re: #222 stuiec

Here's my question: if you see that the hostage is no longer in the pirated vessel, does it really take precision sniper fire to suppress the pirates' fire at the hostage? Wouldn't raking the vessel with machine-gun fire or firing a small shell over it do the trick?

That is, if the hostage jumped out on the side of the vessel toward the Navy ship and presuming that the ship had the pirated vessel under constant surveillance. Or presuming the Navy ship had deployed a surveillance capability to detect the hostage jumping overboard no matter from which side of the vessel.

And, of course, presuming that the rules of engagement permitted firing on the pirates even if the hostage was no longer directly under their control.

So many questions....

I think a lot of people are wondering that. Why couldn't they fire on them the first time? Was it visibility, or was it an order to stand down?

I would like to hear from someone who understands the ROE, and the formality involved. For each individual incident, does the POTUS need to specify ROE, or are there rules in place generally? Was there a rule in place that the Navy could open fire on the hostiles in the case of life threatening danger to an American citizen, or did Obama have to issue one for it to be legal to do so?

296 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:50:04pm

re: #255 Sharmuta

Jumping in the water could be considered "imminent danger".

Getting shot at after jumping in the water was definitely imminent danger.

297 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:50:12pm

re: #280 sleepyone

While I'm grateful that Obama did the right thing by giving these orders I think some folks may be falling over themselves to "congratulate" the President by saying he did the right thing because it's the last thing a lot of us expected him to do. Basically he is doing his job as the President of the United States with something like this but because our (at least some of us) expectations of him are so low it comes as a surprise when he actually does something that benefits an American citizen.

At least that's the way I see it.

Then why are we congratulating the Navy SEALS, they were just doing their jobs.

I think everyone deserves a thumbs up on the why this played out.

298 So?  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:50:24pm

Yes he did the right thing. He probably read my post 4 days ago. I still don't get the Shillary laugh video when she talked about the pirates.....and calling in the FBI. Why?

299 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:50:25pm

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Holy crap lizards. Some chicky in my Humanities class said World War II was not necessary. I guess we should have just let the Art School Dropout have Poland. I tried very hard not to lay into her too much.

Is she a pat buchanan disciple?

300 formercorpsman  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:50:45pm

re: #288 Sharmuta

Good. He drives me nuts.

Some decent stuff when it first came out, but I think when they lose creativity musically, then they start trying to shove their bullshit politics down your throat.

BDVM showed me this about a year or two ago.

I love it.

301 ConservatismNow!  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:51:21pm

re: #299 Sharmuta

Don't care. It's an online class so I've never met her. Clearly an idiot. If there was any war in the history of mankind that was necessary, it was World War II

302 Sleepyone  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:51:34pm

re: #291 jayzee

I agree, he did what he should have done, but how many presidents don't? What about the story the executive branch telling the CIA to stand down when OBL was in their sites?

That's a good point. At least the President did the right thing .......... this time.

303 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:51:39pm

re: #297 Walter L. Newton

Then why are we congratulating the Navy SEALS, they were just doing their jobs.

Yup. And when you have a job like theirs, you deserve congratulations merely for doing your job.

304 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:51:39pm

re: #299 Sharmuta

Is she a pat buchanan disciple?

Probably a lefty fool.

305 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:51:46pm

Jeff Beck...you ca SEE how he does it

306 Orangutan  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:51:46pm

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Holy crap lizards. Some chicky in my Humanities class said World War II was not necessary. I guess we should have just let the Art School Dropout have Poland. I tried very hard not to lay into her too much.

Sounds like she desperately needs more people laying into her. Regularly.

307 Racer X  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:51:57pm

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Holy crap lizards. Some chicky in my Humanities class said World War II was not necessary. I guess we should have just let the Art School Dropout have Poland. I tried very hard not to lay into her too much.

I hope you politely reminded her that had we not stopped Hitler - via WWII, that she and her parents would NOT even be here.

308 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:52:18pm

re: #303 Last Mohican

Yup. And when you have a job like theirs, you deserve congratulations merely for doing your job.

I agree, but I was making a point.

309 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:52:18pm

re: #252 Boxy_brown

Gee, innovative and heroic. Same rules of engagement the Navy usually has when American life is in danger.

I think you may have just answered the question I asked in #295. You're a Navy vet, right?

310 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:52:48pm

re: #277 Archimedes

Two legends from different musical worlds and from different times. Both are no longer with us.

That was about 40 years ago, and they were playing in remembrance of something Louie Armstrong played with Jimmie Rogers 40 years prior to that. So here we sit in remembrance of their remembrance looking as far back as they were.

That's a real slice of America.

I enjoy finding interesting pairings of various artists. On the overnight threads, I often link such instances for littleoldlady, but with a theme of artists her and I enjoy, like various artists with Julie Andrews. I've found some great stuff out there of Julie with Carol Burnett, and Gene Kelly.

311 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:52:52pm

re: #304 Dark_Falcon

Probably a lefty fool.

Once upon a time the lefty fools (sort of) appreciated the western front against the Nazis.

312 Aviator  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:53:08pm

re: #284 irongrampa

ROE is a standing order, unless rescinded. Only reason to re-issue would be for clarification,iirc.

I understand that. Reports have said that the military went to Obama twice with what sounds as though the same order was reiterated. Makes mw suspect they were asking for permission to do something else and did not get it.

313 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:53:25pm

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Holy crap lizards. Some chicky in my Humanities class said World War II was not necessary. I guess we should have just let the Art School Dropout have Poland. I tried very hard not to lay into her too much.

Maybe you were here when that Bircher was hawking the Pearl Harbor conspiracy covered in some book by Robert Stinnett. There's a lot of these types around who have "theories" for a variety of reasons.

314 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:53:53pm

Julie Andrews and Gene Kelly

How can you not love this?

315 Boxy_brown  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:53:54pm

re: #309 capitalist piglet

I think you may have just answered the question I asked in #295. You're a Navy vet, right?

Yes. (I kept Virginia Beach safe for democracy.)

316 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:53:58pm

re: #294 Macker

I beg to differ with you; here's Leo Sayer:

[Video]

blasphemy!....sorry

317 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:54:14pm

re: #306 Orangutan

Sounds like she desperately needs more people laying into her. Regularly.

With what!

318 So?  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:54:17pm

re: #305 albusteve

Jeff Beck...you ca SEE how he does it


[Video]

At least we see eye to eye on one thing, and that is Jeff Beck! A guitarist's guitarist. I love that song. And that version of it. Have you see the Live at Ronnie Scott's DVD or heard any tunes from those sessions? Phenomenal.

319 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:54:22pm

re: #313 Gus 802

That was a bizarre exchange; why do they come out so late at night?

320 ConservatismNow!  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:54:40pm

re: #313 Gus 802

Maybe you were here when that Bircher was hawking the Pearl Harbor conspiracy covered in some book by Robert Stinnett. There's a lot of these types around who have "theories" for a variety of reasons.

Theories in the nonscientific meaning. As in, they have no fucking proof whatsoever, but hey! You bought their book. That's the important part.

321 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:54:43pm

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Holy crap lizards. Some chicky in my Humanities class said World War II was not necessary. I guess we should have just let the Art School Dropout have Poland. I tried very hard not to lay into her too much.

I agree with her. WWII was totally unnecessary. Hitler could have just decided to pursue a career as an artist, rather than going into politics. But he chose otherwise.

322 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:54:50pm

re: #311 jaunte

Once upon a time the lefty fools (sort of) appreciated the western front against the Nazis.

They've since lost any sense of history and they've gone on a pacifist kick. Both trait are foolish and potentially lethal.

323 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:55:03pm

re: #308 Walter L. Newton

I agree, but I was making a point.

Didn't mean to imply that you meant otherwise.

324 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:55:34pm

re: #319 jaunte

That was a bizarre exchange; why do they come out so late at night?

Yes it was. Lynn in New Zealand or something like that.

325 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:55:38pm

re: #312 Aviator

I'd suggest that you monitor Black5, or one of the other milblogs in coming days, whatever backstory there is will be found there, bet on it.

326 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:56:02pm

re: #310 Sharmuta

I enjoy finding interesting pairings of various artists. On the overnight threads, I often link such instances for littleoldlady, but with a theme of artists her and I enjoy, like various artists with Julie Andrews. I've found some great stuff out there of Julie with Carol Burnett, and Gene Kelly.

check out the great Tony Bennett...he has recorded with a wide variety of younger artists....and that dude can sing

327 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:56:22pm

re: #285 itellu3times

It sounds like the commander took three days to cozy the pirates down to 30 meter range, and then decided that he had the drop. I'd say Philliips' life was in immanent danger for the full time he was in captivity.

You know, if it comes out that Obama approved an operational plan to get the pirates to agree to be towed and then to get them within 30 meters of the ship, I would give him full marks for ordering a slow but orderly rescue plan.

But that hasn't been established yet.

328 So?  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:56:52pm

re: #326 albusteve

check out the great Tony Bennett...he has recorded with a wide variety of younger artists....and that dude can sing

Tony who?

/hahahahaha

329 Sleepyone  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:56:55pm

re: #297 Walter L. Newton

Then why are we congratulating the Navy SEALS, they were just doing their jobs.

I think everyone deserves a thumbs up on the why this played out.

You're right, the SEALS were just doing their jobs and so was the President and both parties deserve credit. My only point was that some seemed to be anxious to praise the President and I was thinking perhaps it was because it came as a surprise that he did something good.

330 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:57:02pm

re: #318 So?

At least we see eye to eye on one thing, and that is Jeff Beck! A guitarist's guitarist. I love that song. And that version of it. Have you see the Live at Ronnie Scott's DVD or heard any tunes from those sessions? Phenomenal.

people always ask "how does he DO that?"....nice vid and a killer sonf

331 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:57:29pm

re: #328 So?

Tony who?

/hahahahaha

I held my nose...it's true tho

332 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:57:46pm

re: #315 Boxy_brown

Yes. (I kept Virginia Beach safe for democracy.)

LOL - cool. : ) (Thank you for your service.)

333 So?  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:57:52pm

Hey albusteve,

not talking to me anymore? asked you about Jeff Beck. no reply.

334 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:58:03pm

re: #331 albusteve

I held my nose...it's true tho

I liked Tony Orlando.

335 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:58:05pm

re: #312 Aviator

Makes mw suspect they were asking for permission to do something else and did not get it.

Makes mw suspect they knew he would object to whatever they asked for the first time so they asked for permission to do something they didn't want first.

336 3 wood  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:58:09pm

So far the market looks like it will open down a bit tomorrow. Look for a mixed bag of profit numbers being announced next week.

More hopeful glimmers, but more bad news, too
Retail sales, which account for about half of consumer spending, probably rose 0.3% in March, according to the survey of economists conducted by MarketWatch. Sales fell 0.1% in February and jumped 1.8% in January. The March numbers will be released Tuesday at 8:30 a.m. Eastern.
Auto sales rose nearly 8% in March after hitting a decades-low level in February. Automakers said credit was more available to qualified buyers in March, which could account for the bounce back. Buyers might also be more confident that they'll be able to make their payments, especially now that some automakers are offering job-loss insurance.
337 Aviator  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:58:18pm

re: #325 irongrampa

I'd suggest that you monitor Black5, or one of the other milblogs in coming days, whatever backstory there is will be found there, bet on it.

I do. And here is one quote from a post there:

He did affirm the military's authorization to use force if the captain's life was in danger, but they already would have had that authorization as part of their standard rules of engagement.
338 Boxy_brown  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:58:19pm

re: #332 capitalist piglet

LOL - cool. : ) (Thank you for your service.)

Anytime.

339 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:58:21pm

I appreciate President Obama letting the experts work. I'd also like to see him use the 'bully pulpit' to talk about the response any further piracy will receive.

340 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:58:22pm

re: #314 Sharmuta

Julie Andrews and Gene Kelly


[Video]

How can you not love this?

easy...need I explain? really?

341 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:58:35pm

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Tell her it was all England's fault, what with them honoring their defense treaty with Poland and all.

If not for the Brit's sticking to their word, there would have been no war.

/sarc tag, just in case

342 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:58:47pm

re: #326 albusteve

check out the great Tony Bennett...he has recorded with a wide variety of younger artists....and that dude can sing

Love his voice. Even if he does come in 1-2 beats late on every line (I know, it's on purpose -it's his style).

343 So?  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:59:08pm

re: #333 So?

Hey albusteve,

not talking to me anymore? asked you about Jeff Beck. no reply.

oh sorry, you posted while I posted, my humblest apologies. Jeff Beck "live at Ronnie Scott's "" kicks ass.

344 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:59:12pm

An old friend of mine plays in this Beatles tribute band. They're pretty darned good, IMO.

345 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:59:22pm

re: #333 So?

Hey albusteve,

not talking to me anymore? asked you about Jeff Beck. no reply.

I can't keep up, now I gotta go smack Walter

346 ConservatismNow!  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:59:30pm

re: #324 Gus 802

Yes it was. Lynn in New Zealand or something like that.

Typically these conspiracy theorists come up with their "theories" because they can't wrap their mind around the concept that sometimes bad shit just happens. It unavoidable. They can't fathom that there really are bad people in this world and unfortunately they are in charge of whole nations.

347 3 wood  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:59:40pm

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Holy crap lizards. Some chicky in my Humanities class said World War II was not necessary. I guess we should have just let the Art School Dropout have Poland. I tried very hard not to lay into her too much.

What was her take on Pearl Harbor? Maybe some Japanese vacationers got carried away with firecrackers?

348 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 7:59:54pm

re: #271 Sharmuta

I can't stand him. Dianna thinks she may have smacked him. I hope she did.

Remember, it was a dark club and I'd been drinking.

349 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:00:06pm

re: #334 Walter L. Newton

I liked Tony Orlando.

good grief....why do I believe you?

350 formercorpsman  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:00:17pm

re: #348 Dianna

Sweet.

351 So?  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:00:41pm

C ya....

352 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:00:47pm

re: #321 Last Mohican

OR...he could have migrated to the US in 1919 after The Great War...and became a science fiction writer, who wrote Lord of the Swastika shortly before his death in 1953 due to...syphilis.

353 Aviator  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:01:22pm

re: #347 3 wood

What was her take on Pearl Harbor? Maybe some Japanese vacationers got carried away with firecrackers?

Probably justified because we cut off the supply of scrapped Buicks so their weapon production was hampered.

354 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:01:23pm

re: #336 3 wood

So far the market looks like it will open down a bit tomorrow. Look for a mixed bag of profit numbers being announced next week.

Krugman was on ABC this morning being gloomy, that even if we stop crashing, it will take 18 months for jobs to recover, etc.

355 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:01:24pm

re: #326 albusteve

check out the great Tony Bennett...he has recorded with a wide variety of younger artists....and that dude can sing

I really liked the cover songs Johnny Cash did of newer music. He did them great, made them his own songs, and- dare I say it- I like Johnny's versions better than the originals. Rusty Cage from Soundgarden is one:

*cranking it*

356 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:01:26pm

Other things I'd rather do than move..
15.Spend a weekend retreat with Ozzy on reality TV.
16. Get fired by Donald Trump
17. Babysit Damien
18. French kiss Rosie on Hollywood Blvd
19. ....

357 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:01:31pm

re: #181 AlexM

My take, they had a clear shot, they took it. The part about the captain's life being in immediate danger was simply political cover up the chain to do what was needed.

358 ConservatismNow!  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:01:50pm

re: #347 3 wood

What was her take on Pearl Harbor? Maybe some Japanese vacationers got carried away with firecrackers?

I don't know. It was an offhand comment in a reply to a post about WWII. She said the war was unnecessary, like Iraq after 9/11. Linking the two set me off.

359 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:02:14pm

re: #344 Sosigado

I do enjoy live Beatles cover bands- it's fun. But famous artists recording the Beatles just pisses me off.

360 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:02:28pm

re: #313 Gus 802

Maybe you were here when that Bircher was hawking the Pearl Harbor conspiracy covered in some book by Robert Stinnett. There's a lot of these types around who have "theories" for a variety of reasons.

Are we talking about the person who thought FDR was part of some huge conspiracy? What happened to him? Lynn from New Zealand or something?

361 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:02:32pm

re: #346 ConservatismNow!

Typically these conspiracy theorists come up with their "theories" because they can't wrap their mind around the concept that sometimes bad shit just happens. It unavoidable. They can't fathom that there really are bad people in this world and unfortunately they are in charge of whole nations.

That's part of the way I see it. Or they re-write history to fit a certain political agenda or even audience. In these cases they use what they call "evidence" to meet a pre-determined motivation. In essence they are working backwards with the information -- sort of what students do in physics class.

362 Boxy_brown  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:02:40pm

re: #357 avanti

My take, they had a clear shot, they took it. The part about the captain's life being in immediate danger was simply political cover up the chain to do what was needed.

Armageddon alert... I think Avanti is exactly right....

363 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:02:46pm

re: #357 avanti

My take, they had a clear shot, they took it. The part about the captain's life being in immediate danger was simply political cover up the chain to do what was needed.

If my ass is in a boat with four pirates ... I am thinking my life is in "about to die at any moment" kinda danger every second ...

364 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:02:46pm

re: #283 stuiec

stuiec -

Exactly - AND - most Americans have NO IDEA of the can of "whoopass" we opened on the Somalians before President Clinton said "No Mas" - they only remember the 18 Americans. It is a great historic "what if" to wonder what would have happened had President Clinton continued the conflict. Would it have been "Another Vietnam" or a qualified or complete victory. We will never know. What we DO KNOW is that OBL saw it as a failure of will. From that standpoint and 20/20 hindsight - BAD MOVE. I'm a Sun Tzu kind of guy - never let your enemy believe you are weak unless it is to set a trap.

-S-

365 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:02:53pm

re: #310 Sharmuta

I enjoy finding interesting pairings of various artists. On the overnight threads, I often link such instances for littleoldlady, but with a theme of artists her and I enjoy, like various artists with Julie Andrews. I've found some great stuff out there of Julie with Carol Burnett, and Gene Kelly.

Good thinking. Youtube is a powerful tool!

Allan Sherman, Dean Martin and Vic Damone:

366 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:03:09pm

re: #360 Dianna

Are we talking about the person who thought FDR was part of some huge conspiracy? What happened to him? Lynn from New Zealand or something?

Yes. That one. Stinnett, Pearl Harbor, FDR, et al.

367 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:03:16pm

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Holy crap lizards. Some chicky in my Humanities class said World War II was not necessary. I guess we should have just let the Art School Dropout have Poland. I tried very hard not to lay into her too much.

She's probably pissed that some Jooz survived and conquered Palestine from the poor innocent helpless Palestinians.

368 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:03:26pm

re: #334 Walter L. Newton

I liked Tony Orlando.

I think he plays in Branson Missouri.

369 3 wood  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:03:35pm

re: #354 itellu3times

Krugman was on ABC this morning being gloomy, that even if we stop crashing, it will take 18 months for jobs to recover, etc.

Krugman is a clown. I would not pay much attention to what he says.

370 Aye Pod  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:03:36pm

re: #78 BigPapa

Rick Roll'd by Jimmah. Damn you Jimmah!

Heh! I did it to piss off a lot of people who really really wanted something like that to be true. Seems to have worked ;-) Thanks for seeing the funny side.

Now it really is bedtime for me.

371 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:03:37pm

re: #347 3 wood

If everyone would hold hands and sing Kumquat no wars would be necessary.

Ha. I Like how when you type Kumbaya the spellchecker recommends Kumquat. Double HA.

372 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:03:58pm

Love ya, {Sleepy B}! Johnny rocked it.

373 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:04:04pm

re: #327 stuiec

You know, if it comes out that Obama approved an operational plan to get the pirates to agree to be towed and then to get them within 30 meters of the ship, I would give him full marks for ordering a slow but orderly rescue plan.

But that hasn't been established yet.

Operational plan? Obama? Seriously?

I think he called up the Navy and said "go ahead and figure out some way to use some guns or whatever, if you think the captain is in danger." I'm willing to give him credit for doing that -- given his track record, it wouldn't have been surprising to see him apologize to the pirates for all the bad stuff Bush did, and offer them a few million dollars and a set of DVDs in compensation.

374 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:04:34pm

re: #355 Sharmuta

I really liked the cover songs Johnny Cash did of newer music. He did them great, made them his own songs, and- dare I say it- I like Johnny's versions better than the originals. Rusty Cage from Soundgarden is one:


[Video]

*cranking it*

interesting...fearless old guy, that's the point

375 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:04:42pm

re: #312 Aviator

I understand that. Reports have said that the military went to Obama twice with what sounds as though the same order was reiterated. Makes mw suspect they were asking for permission to do something else and did not get it.

I think the orders were time sensitive, ie, had to be renewed q24hrs, etc.

376 formercorpsman  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:04:58pm

Take it easy guys.

377 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:05:21pm

re: #366 Gus 802

Yes. That one. Stinnett, Pearl Harbor, FDR, et al.

Maybe she was nostalgic for the Asian Co-prosperity Sphere.

378 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:05:30pm

re: #374 albusteve

It's country, it's rock- it's a perfect marriage of a song and artist meant to be.

379 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:05:32pm

I'm next to hit the road. Later!

380 3 wood  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:05:50pm

re: #358 ConservatismNow!

I don't know. It was an offhand comment in a reply to a post about WWII. She said the war was unnecessary, like Iraq after 9/11. Linking the two set me off.

I presume it was in a discussion board, I've taught classes like that. People throw out all kinds of odd statements.


Well, got to turn in and get ready for another work week.

Good night folks.

381 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:06:00pm

I can't even listen to the Soundgarden version any more.

382 Boxy_brown  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:06:01pm

'nite 'nite..

383 Sleepyone  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:06:09pm

re: #356 HoosierHoops

Other things I'd rather do than move..
15.Spend a weekend retreat with Ozzy on reality TV.
16. Get fired by Donald Trump
17. Babysit Damien
18. French kiss Rosie on Hollywood Blvd
19. ....

I've moved 10 times in the past 17 years. 5 states, 7 cities (various places within those cities). I hate the act of moving but I love going to a new place. I've now been in Maine for 6 years (I think) and it's longest I've stayed in one state since 1992!

384 sngnsgt  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:06:12pm

Lemme' tell ya' about moving sucks. The journey's end was worth it, but I recently moved from NW Pennsylvania back to sunny Las Vegas, NV. 3 days on the road in a truck with an Explorer on a dolly in tow. Good thing there were no pets this time. I moved out here once, and went back east for family reasons. I don't need to tell some of you what family can be like when you really need them. Anywho, with the current housing crisis, the house I bought in Vegas is twice the size of the one I lived in here before, and the payment is $300.00 less. Oh BTW, it's sunny and never snows here either. ;-)

385 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:06:36pm

re: #359 Sharmuta

I do enjoy live Beatles cover bands- it's fun. But famous artists recording the Beatles just pisses me off.

there needs to be a law....I don't even feel that way about the Stones...do not cover the Beatles, nine times out of ten it's a bad thing....worse than Muzak....I'm serious about this shit

386 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:06:48pm

re: #377 jaunte

Maybe she was nostalgic for the Asian Co-prosperity Sphere.

Yeah. I asked her (or him) if she considered what would have happened if we didn't get involved in WWII and the possibility of her never having been born because of a Japanese occupation of New Zealand. Never got an answer. Then she went off on a tangent with the Bircher links and got canned.

387 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:07:34pm

re: #372 Sharmuta

I am not big into the C/W music scene, but JC is the man. Seems like the kind of guy I would get along with pretty well.

388 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:07:39pm

re: #366 Gus 802

Yes. That one. Stinnett, Pearl Harbor, FDR, et al.

I was surprised that person wasn't hanging around for days. I even lined up a bunch of answers for him.

389 eddiespaghetti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:07:41pm

We need to find the 'moderate pirates' and sit down and talk with them.

390 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:07:57pm

re: #378 Sharmuta

It's country, it's rock- it's a perfect marriage of a song and artist meant to be.

once Cash puts his thing on it, that's what it is....greatness that few can exploit like that

391 Aviator  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:08:03pm

re: #375 Wishing

I think the orders were time sensitive, ie, had to be renewed q24hrs, etc.

Perhaps I was not clear. I think the ROE were already in place (ROE exist until changed or the operation covered by them concludes) and Obama declined to change them.

392 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:08:06pm

It appears that most recent acts of piracy take place in waters off Islamic countries by Muslim pirates.
Is it just my imagination or is this connection being underreported by MSM?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

393 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:08:14pm

re: #386 Gus 802

Damn. I would have told her she'd be half-Japanese and her mother would have been a comfort woman....

394 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:08:30pm

re: #342 Bloodnok

Love his voice. Even if he does come in 1-2 beats late on every line (I know, it's on purpose -it's his style).

Heh. I love Tony Bennett. I've seen him live.

A few years back, he had an unfortunate incident happen, singing on a float in the Thanksgiving Day Parade in NYC. I'm not familiar with the logistics of that gig (I would have thought it would be pure lipsynching, but this was definitely NOT) - he sang a verse, maybe a chorus, and then I think it was after a little solo space, he lost his place, came in wrong, and in the wrong key. He found his bearings just in time to sing a little scat riff to end the song in the right key.

For a while I had a DVD of it, but I don't know where it is. I've tried to find a YouTube version, but it's not out there.

It was horrible on one hand, but on another, when you see a legend clam it up, you don't feel so bad about the time or two you did something boneheaded on a gig. He's human. (And I love him even more for that.)

395 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:08:45pm

re: #47 irongrampa

I trust all had a good Easter?

Went to mass with my dad. The congregation prayed for Captain Phillips' safety and release.

/Got to ask Father if he can throw in some prayers for a pony next time...

396 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:08:48pm

Okay, this Fox News report indicates that Capt. Phillips was in the lifeboat, not in the water, at the time of the rescue, and that the pirates were getting nuttier. (It also says that the fourth pirate wasn't wounded -- he'd turned himself in sometime earlier!)

Navy Seals Kill Pirates, Rescue American Hostage
Vice Admiral William Gortney, Commander of the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet, told journalists at the Pentagon a decision was made to shoot after the pirates were spotted pointing an AK-47 into the back of Captain Phillips.

By Justin Fishel

FOXNews.com

Sunday, April 12, 2009

Arlington, Va. -- Captain Richard Phillips is now safe and healthy aboard the USS Boxer after Navy Seals launched a rescue attempt that ended when snipers killed three pirates in three shots, all direct hits to the head.

Vice Admiral William Gortney, Commander of Navy's 5th Fleet, told journalists at the Pentagon Sunday evening a decision was made to take the shots after the pirates were spotted pointing an AK-47 into the back of Captain Phillips.

As soon as the shots were fired, Navy Seals "scurried down" a tow line attached to the lifeboat, and were the first to get to Phillips. They surveyed the scene and found three dead pirates. Phillips was alive, although tied up.

The fourth pirate, who is now in U.S. custody, left the lifeboat hours earlier with the understanding he would negotiate from on board the USS Bainbridge, the massive Navy destroyer that shadowed the lifeboat for several days.

It soon became clear the younger pirate was simply turning himself in and had no intention of going back to lifeboat, according to defense officials.

Shortly after the Seals reached Captain Phillips, a Navy RIB (Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat) approached the life boat and safely escorted Phillips back to the Bainbridge. He has since undergone a medical exam and had the chance to take a shower.

According to Admiral Gortney he's healthy and unharmed.

The scene got "tenuous" according to one official, shortly after the three pirates agreed to let the Bainbridge tow their boat. The sea conditions were worsening and the lifeboat was "floundering" before pirates acknowledged that by establishing a tow, it would be a smoother ride.

But sometime soon after the boats were hooked together, shots were fired from the lifeboat and the pirates were seen holding a gun to Captain Phillips back. Acting on a standing order from President Obama to move in when Phillips was in "imminent danger" snipers were ordered to fire.

They established clear head shots on all three pirates. One of the pirates was visible through the front window, and the other two were revealing their heads through the top hatch, presumably to get fresh air. It would be their last breath.

It was an extremely happy ending to a story that doesn't often end well. Just last week the French lost one hostage after their Navy raided a hijacked sailing yacht.

Admiral Gortney left with a warning that today's outcome could lead to more violence in future hijackings, perhaps in the form of retaliation for losing three of their own.

397 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:08:50pm

re: #392 Spare O'Lake

You don't say.

/

398 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:09:10pm

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Holy crap lizards. Some chicky in my Humanities class said World War II was not necessary. I guess we should have just let the Art School Dropout have Poland. I tried very hard not to lay into her too much.

ConservatismNow -

She was Right - for all the Wrong Reasons. Had the British, French or both of them stood up to Hitler in the 1930's - Hitler would have been gone. Her game is Pacifism, mine is Deterrence. That is all.

-S-

399 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:09:11pm

For contrast purposes, Soundgarden's Rusty Cage

Johnny Cash again:

400 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:09:13pm

re: #377 jaunte

Maybe she was nostalgic for the Asian Co-prosperity Sphere.

I wasn't going to go there, but it did spring forcefully to mind.

401 ConservatismNow!  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:09:20pm

re: #392 Spare O'Lake

It appears that most recent acts of piracy take place in waters off Islamic countries by Muslim pirates.
Is it just my imagination or is this connection being underreported by MSM?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

No, it's tradition. Africa has long been a piracy haven. Think Barbary Pirates.

402 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:09:40pm

re: #374 albusteve

interesting...fearless old guy, that's the point

How about this guy?

403 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:09:41pm

re: #388 Dianna

I was surprised that person wasn't hanging around for days. I even lined up a bunch of answers for him.

I never understood trolls. Most of them are "all about me" and pull that passive/aggressive routine.

404 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:09:52pm

re: #396 stuiec

To which I say: Bring It On you motherfuckers!

405 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:09:54pm

re: #366 Gus 802

FDR Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory?

Torah! Torah! Torah!

406 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:10:07pm

I would LOVE to live-blog the Red Shirt Sh!tz here in Thailand, but I haven't the resources.

My family and friends are unharmed, the Red Shirts HAVE obeyed the law and voted TWO governments in, only to have them ousted by the vocal, violent minority 'Yellow Shirt Mob' who so seriously crippled Thailand's economy around New Year (last) by stranding 163,000 travelers here, travelers who -once back home- rightfully chided Thailand for its LAME response to the YS Mob!

Anything big comes up, I'll report here, and strive once again to reassure my many friends here, that the DISUNITY so manifest in this, and other problems, CAN BE CONVERTED by real people turning toward The Source...

Karridine, from the acrid, bonfire and tear-gas laced suburbs of Bangkok 10AM Monday 13 April 2009CE/165BE

407 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:10:09pm

re: #387 Slumbering Behemoth

I am not big into the C/W music scene, but JC is the man. Seems like the kind of guy I would get along with pretty well.

I'm a rock-n-roll girl, but Johnny's the MAN.

408 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:10:10pm

re: #381 Sharmuta

I can't even listen to the Soundgarden version any more.

Of what?

409 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:10:16pm
410 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:10:43pm

re: #377 jaunte

Maybe she was nostalgic for the Asian Co-prosperity Sphere.

Being a Bircher I think their theory is to join with the Nazis to fight Communism. Sort of like Buchanan.

411 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:10:47pm

re: #406 Karridine

Stay safe!

412 eddiespaghetti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:10:50pm

re: #399 Sharmuta

I have to admit, I like SG version best. No offense.

413 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:11:05pm

re: #408 Mich-again

See #399

414 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:11:25pm

re: #402 Archimedes

How about this guy?

[Video]

that was pretty awful

415 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:11:25pm

re: #393 Macker

Damn. I would have told her she'd be half-Japanese and her mother would have been a comfort woman....

Exactly, or worse. Brainless they are.

416 Sifty  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:11:33pm

No way the Commie in Chief had anything to do with the plan.

He gets credit for allowing the operation to proceed, but Obama doesn't have the brains or balls to get past "please don't hurt me" foreign policy.

Some professional somebodies in uniforms who specialize in human trash removal deserve a cold one tonight.

Tomorrow, O and his limp-wristed advisers will get busy again scrapping all the weapon systems that made the op possible.

Still:
Happy Easter from America, Pirate fuckers! You're Davey Jones' bitch now!

417 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:11:33pm

re: #378 Sharmuta

Here he is preforming a song written for him by notable singer/satanist Glenn Danzig.

418 Salem  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:11:35pm

Okay, I'm glad Obama didn't fail...to do the right thing. Assuming this is a valid demonstration of leadership and not just a simple awareness that there was no sane alternative politically to letting the military do what it's supposed to in this heavily-covered situation.

419 ConservatismNow!  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:11:40pm

re: #410 Gus 802

Being a Bircher I think their theory is to join with the Nazis to fight Communism. Sort of like Buchanan.

I prefer the Patton approach. Let the Nazis and Communists fight each other. Kill the winner.

420 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:11:41pm

re: #65 dapperdave

Yes moving does suck but that's how you find out who your real friends are.

It's also how you find out who your strong friends are. Last time I moved, I greatly appreciated learning that one of our friends can put a La-Z-Boy on his head and walk up a flight of stairs with it. I can't do that.

/Men are amazing labor-saving devices!

421 Sleepyone  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:11:42pm

re: #384 sngnsgt

Lemme' tell ya' about moving sucks. The journey's end was worth it, but I recently moved from NW Pennsylvania back to sunny Las Vegas, NV. 3 days on the road in a truck with an Explorer on a dolly in tow. Good thing there were no pets this time. I moved out here once, and went back east for family reasons. I don't need to tell some of you what family can be like when you really need them. Anywho, with the current housing crisis, the house I bought in Vegas is twice the size of the one I lived in here before, and the payment is $300.00 less. Oh BTW, it's sunny and never snows here either. ;-)

I hear ya. We're in the process of getting our house ready to put on the market here in Maine to move to Florida. No snow! And there are so many foreclosures that we hope to get twice the house for less money. You don't get a lot of house for your dollar here in New England.

And P.S. I love Vegas. I used to live in San Diego and would drive there for a weekend of fun. I even got married there in the chapel across from Circus Circus!

422 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:12:28pm

re: #406 Karridine

I would LOVE to live-blog the Red Shirt Sh!tz here in Thailand, but I haven't the resources.

My family and friends are unharmed, the Red Shirts HAVE obeyed the law and voted TWO governments in, only to have them ousted by the vocal, violent minority 'Yellow Shirt Mob' who so seriously crippled Thailand's economy around New Year (last) by stranding 163,000 travelers here, travelers who -once back home- rightfully chided Thailand for its LAME response to the YS Mob!

Anything big comes up, I'll report here, and strive once again to reassure my many friends here, that the DISUNITY so manifest in this, and other problems, CAN BE CONVERTED by real people turning toward The Source...

Karridine, from the acrid, bonfire and tear-gas laced suburbs of Bangkok 10AM Monday 13 April 2009CE/165BE

Hey! We were looking for you!

Glad to see you!

423 freetoken  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:12:47pm

re: #406 Karridine

Take care Karridine.

424 Salem  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:13:00pm

re: #359 Sharmuta

I do enjoy live Beatles cover bands- it's fun. But famous artists recording the Beatles just pisses me off.

Well, don't let anyone make you sit through a movie called Across the Universe. Pure agony.

425 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:13:02pm

re: #391 Aviator

Perhaps I was not clear. I think the ROE were already in place (ROE exist until changed or the operation covered by them concludes) and Obama declined to change them.

In the presser, they said he had signed off on orders twice.

426 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:13:09pm

re: #405 Mich-again

FDR Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory?

Torah! Torah! Torah!

Oh no! I never saw that. Hey, new conspiracy. The Maersk Alabama piracy was planned all along! They're weren't pirates but CIA plants. This whole event was a plot to make Obama look strong!

Loose Change Pirates

///

427 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:13:39pm

re: #407 Sharmuta

I'm a rock-n-roll girl, but Johnny's the MAN.

Same here.

/wait, what? Aw damnit! I'm a rock-n-roll guy. GUY!

428 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:13:42pm

re: #419 ConservatismNow!

I also liked Patton's "conversation" with MacArthur re: the Soviets: "You start in Tokyo, I'll start in Berlin...we'll meet in Moscow!"

429 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:14:20pm

re: #418 Salem

Okay, I'm glad Obama didn't fail...to do the right thing. Assuming this is a valid demonstration of leadership and not just a simple awareness that there was no sane alternative politically to letting the military do what it's supposed to in this heavily-covered situation.

I tend to agree with you...BOs role was minimal other than 'go for it'...not an historic decision or whatever...no big deal

430 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:15:09pm

re: #373 Last Mohican

Operational plan? Obama? Seriously?

I think he called up the Navy and said "go ahead and figure out some way to use some guns or whatever, if you think the captain is in danger." I'm willing to give him credit for doing that -- given his track record, it wouldn't have been surprising to see him apologize to the pirates for all the bad stuff Bush did, and offer them a few million dollars and a set of DVDs in compensation.

Given the account in the Fox News story, I think it's remotely possible that the Navy came to Obama and laid out a plan to convince the pirates to agree to be towed, and then use the decreased distance to mount a rescue.

But it seems a lot more likely that Obama repeatedly told the Navy not to shoot anyone unless absolutely necessary to protect the hostage's life... and perhaps the captain of the USS Bainbridge felt that a situation like that might be easier to control if he got the pirates conveniently within working distance for the snipers he had on board.

431 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:15:12pm

re: #422 Dianna

Some anonymous friend posted a hedzup at BrainSurgeryWithSpoons

So I got the message... Friends are concerned, and I AM here in the belly of the beast... (its on Thai TV as I type)

432 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:15:21pm

Most of you here know me, right. Okay, lay off the obambi cracks about the rescue op. NO CinC does any kind of planning, not one. That's what the folks in the Monument to Murphys Law(Pentagon) do. All the CinC does is say yes or no. He has military advisors to say this is feasable, this is not. Some of are starting to sound like the Kkkos kiddies. I don't like the mans doomestic policies but please, the CinC don't plan ops.

433 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:15:24pm

re: #410 Gus 802

Being a Bircher I think their theory is to join with the Nazis to fight Communism. Sort of like Buchanan.

Now we know, with the benefit of hindsight, that defeating the Communists just means you have to deal with Russia and China.

434 Aviator  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:15:28pm

re: #425 Wishing

In the presser, they said he had signed off on orders twice.

Yeah reportedly the same orders. Very odd, unless he was being asked for permission to do something else and he declined to change the ROE.

435 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:15:28pm

re: #419 ConservatismNow!

I prefer the Patton approach. Let the Nazis and Communists fight each other. Kill the winner.

That would have been a good alternative. Of course by then everyone wanted to go home.

436 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:15:46pm

re: #413 Sharmuta

I "believe" Chris Cornell is among the greatest singers in Rock and Roll history. And I like Johnny Cash a lot. His version of Hurt blows away the NiN original. The first time I heard it blew me away.

But Johnny can't out do Chris Cornell. Not when it comes to actually singing.

437 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:16:11pm

re: #417 Slumbering Behemoth

Here he is preforming a song written for him by notable singer/satanist Glenn Danzig.

I liked that. U2 wrote a song for him too, The Wanderer:

438 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:16:43pm

re: #431 Karridine

Some anonymous friend posted a hedzup at BrainSurgeryWithSpoons

So I got the message... Friends are concerned, and I AM here in the belly of the beast... (its on Thai TV as I type)

I am so pleased to hear from you and to know you're safe. I used a very old email addy (about 4 years old), and felt a touch unhappy when it bounced.

Stay safe, all right?

439 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:16:45pm

re: #424 Salem

Well, don't let anyone make you sit through a movie called Across the Universe. Pure agony.

Would you believe people do suggest that movie to me. I refuse.

440 Racer X  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:16:45pm

re: #389 eddiespaghetti

We need to find the 'moderate pirates' and sit down and talk with them.

This is the only Pirate I'd like to talk to.

441 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:16:56pm

re: #425 Wishing

In the presser, they said he had signed off on orders twice.

That's confusing to me. If the Navy already has a legal, standing rule to protect American lives in the case of life-threatening danger, why was Obama's authorization in this regard needed at all, much less twice?

There's something missing in the details, I guess. In any case, he didn't authorize a rescue attempt - but it sounds like he just affirmed what was already their ROE.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

442 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:17:25pm

re: #401 ConservatismNow!

No, it's tradition. Africa has long been a piracy haven. Think Barbary Pirates.

Check the link in my previous post on Piracy in the Malacca Strait - the pirates there are Muslims too.
Also, the Barabary pirates were Muslims as well.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

443 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:17:26pm

re: #431 Karridine

Some anonymous friend posted a hedzup at BrainSurgeryWithSpoons

So I got the message... Friends are concerned, and I AM here in the belly of the beast... (its on Thai TV as I type)

Karradine ... glad you okay ... people have been asking about you today ... keep safe ...

444 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:17:26pm

re: #433 jaunte

Now we know, with the benefit of hindsight, that defeating the Communists just means you have to deal with Russia and China.

And they're still there. Oddly enough we're now relying on China to buy our treasuries. How the world turns.

445 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:18:14pm

re: #431 Karridine

I see it was sandspur who put up the flare.

Thanks, sandspur!

446 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:18:18pm

re: #434 Aviator

Yeah reportedly the same orders. Very odd, unless he was being asked for permission to do something else and he declined to change the ROE.

They MAY have been situation-specific orders, and time sensitive, which would require the double signing.
Chill!

447 eddiespaghetti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:18:59pm

re: #440 Racer X

Indeed, I will take 2!

448 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:19:03pm

Audioslave: Like a Stone

449 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:19:04pm

re: #432 pingjockey

Excellent, and thanks.

450 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:19:08pm

Okay! Gist of the Official Talking Head on TV:

"Its going to be over, very soon! If the Red Shirts DO ANYTHING or GET HURT, it is on THEIR heads, no fault of this government... (installed by the Yellow Shirts!)"
451 Aviator  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:19:10pm

re: #441 capitalist piglet

That's confusing to me. If the Navy already has a legal, standing rule to protect American lives in the case of life-threatening danger, why was Obama's authorization in this regard needed at all, much less twice?

There's something missing in the details, I guess. In any case, he didn't authorize a rescue attempt - but it sounds like he just affirmed what was already their ROE.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

I believe you are right. In what I posted earlier I said I was reading between the lines. There would not be a reason to just reaffirm ROE.

452 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:19:15pm

re: #439 Sharmuta

One good thing about that movie; it introduced my son to the actual music, and he took to it like a drink of water in the desert.

453 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:19:38pm

re: #436 Mich-again

I "believe" Chris Cornell is among the greatest singers in Rock and Roll history. And I like Johnny Cash a lot. His version of Hurt blows away the NiN original. The first time I heard it blew me away.

But Johnny can't out do Chris Cornell. Not when it comes to actually singing.

Well, geeze. If we're discussing singers, I doubt Johnny Cash would hit my top 20.

454 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:19:41pm

re: #442 Spare O'Lake
Kinda funny ain't it, Most countries with Muslim neighbors are having issues with those neighbors.

455 Irving  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:19:42pm

From what I understand, when additional resources came into the region - more ships, and probably by extension more options - the authorization had to be reissued as a legal/technical matter.

I'm not entirely certain, but aren't the official sources being kinda coy about whether SEALS were involved or not? I'm dead certain they were, but for some reason I was under the impression that the Navy tends to hold to a "SEALS? What SEALS?" public position when it comes to operations like this. If that's the case, it's quite possible that we'll never see the medals pinned to the sniper's chests in public. A bit disappointing, but I'll bet a beer they'd say "just doing my job" if you asked them. The really competent soldiers are cool that way.

Finding the right balance on just what to do to the Somali pirates in general is a tough trick. Nation building completely sucks, which is what it pretty much demands, and the Army is real busy right now. It says volumes that an Islamist government's threatened to take control of the nation several times by now, and on balance it looks like a better alternative than what's going on now.

456 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:19:53pm

re: #441 capitalist piglet

That's confusing to me. If the Navy already has a legal, standing rule to protect American lives in the case of life-threatening danger, why was Obama's authorization in this regard needed at all, much less twice?

There's something missing in the details, I guess. In any case, he didn't authorize a rescue attempt - but it sounds like he just affirmed what was already their ROE.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

I think because they determined this was criminal, not military act? Ergo, the FBI, etc.

457 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:20:19pm

re: #375 Wishing

I think the orders were time sensitive, ie, had to be renewed q24hrs, etc.

We may never know but it could have been more like this.
"Mr President, the snipers have been air dropped in today and are in position and the stupid pirates allowed us to tow them within 30 yards of their firing position. I think the captains life is in emanate danger (wink, wink), are we still good to go sir ?"

458 JacksonTn  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:20:49pm

Good Night Lizards ... great day today ... all things considered ... hope tomorrow is good for all ...

459 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:20:51pm

re: #446 Wishing

They MAY have been situation-specific orders, and time sensitive, which would require the double signing.
Chill!

What's wrong? Aviator didn't sound "unchilled" to me.

460 Sifty  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:20:53pm

re: #432 pingjockey

I don't think we sound like the kossuckers. Even the women here have more bass in their voices than those mewling kittens.

But your real point is taken.

Presidents only approve plans. Unless they are super bad-asses on TV.

And, in Bush's case, steer hurricanes into poor minority neighborhoods.

461 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:21:01pm

re: #449 Dianna
You're welcome. I don't trust the man half as far as I could throw him, but some of us are sounding down right silly.

462 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:21:15pm

re: #452 jaunte

One good thing about that movie; it introduced my son to the actual music, and he took to it like a drink of water in the desert.

Kids naturally take to The Beatles. And it's good clean music for the most part, that parents don't really need to worry about. But the best thing- it's a generational bridge builder, sharing the love of The Beatles....

463 Sifty  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:21:22pm

re: #440 Racer X

Hands off my girlfriend.

464 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:21:24pm

re: #414 albusteve

that was pretty awful

So true, but he's taking a chance! :~)

465 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:21:54pm

The Thai government is laying the public foundation for pulling the plug on this Red Shirt Short Shrift...

Finished talking as I typed.

466 Aviator  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:21:57pm

re: #446 Wishing

They MAY have been situation-specific orders, and time sensitive, which would require the double signing.
Chill!

Nothing to chill about. I posted an opinion based on a number of reports. You disagree, you have that privilege and I have the privilege to do the same.

467 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:22:13pm

still relevant...the Stones

468 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:22:15pm

re: #461 pingjockey

I do try not to comment where I have absolutely no knowledge.

469 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:22:26pm

re: #460 Sifty
Ah, but GWB was a special case. He could command hurricanes to do his bidding!

470 eddiespaghetti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:22:32pm

re: #454 pingjockey

Its called the bloody borders of Islam.

471 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:22:35pm

re: #453 Sharmuta

Well, geeze. If we're discussing singers, I doubt Johnny Cash would hit my top 20.

Oh he'd be in mine. For sure.

472 lightspeed  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:22:45pm

Sorry, can't give the President much credit here. According to current information, his orders were to NOT DO ANYTHING provocative unless the hostage was about to be killed ("imminent danger"). Had the pirates not stepped out into the open (apparently) with guns pointing at the Captain, they would still be out there drifting at sea negotiating with the FBI. I give the Navy credit. As for the President, about the best I can do is to say, "Thanks for not completely tying the hands of the Navy and screwing this thing up like we all expected you to. And from now on, let these pirate scum no that you don't F with Americans."

473 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:22:52pm

re: #431 Karridine

Long time, no read. Glad you're doin' ok.

474 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:22:52pm

For Mich-again:

475 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:23:07pm

re: #466 Aviator

Nothing to chill about. I posted an opinion based on a number of reports. You disagree, you have that privilege and I have the privilege to do the same.

No prob. Sorry if the chill comment offended you, sure didn't mean to!

476 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:23:37pm

re: #462 Sharmuta

Kids naturally take to The Beatles. And it's good clean music for the most part, that parents don't really need to worry about. But the best thing- it's a generational bridge builder, sharing the love of The Beatles....

well said...something people forget....my baby girl is a HUGE Beatles fan....26yrs old

477 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:23:47pm

re: #462 Sharmuta

My daughter in the Army has wondered whatever happened to the creativity in music that was evident in the Beatles era, compared to now.

478 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:23:51pm

re: #454 pingjockey

Kinda funny ain't it, Most countries with Muslim neighbors are having issues with those neighbors.

Since most pirates are Muslims, and most piracy takes place off the coasts of Muslim countries, Obama may well find it inconvenient to deal with the issue.

479 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:24:11pm

re: #470 eddiespaghetti
You will not see any of this reported in the msm.

480 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:24:24pm

Slumbering, I've been BUSY
and
poverty-strick

Good to see YOU again, Bub!

and with that, I'm outta here... the Dogs of War have been loosed on the Thai protesters as of 10 minutes ago...

481 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:24:49pm

re: #429 albusteve

I tend to agree with you...BOs role was minimal other than 'go for it'...not an historic decision or whatever...no big deal

From what I understand the Navy was to act if the captain's life was in "imminent" danger. That gives the brass wide latitude n'est-ce pas? All depends on what the admiral in charge sees as imminent danger.

482 LilyGecko  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:24:56pm

re: #472 lightspeed

Sorry, can't give the President much credit here. According to current information, his orders were to NOT DO ANYTHING provocative unless the hostage was about to be killed ("imminent danger").


Where did you find that?

483 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:25:08pm

re: #474 Sharmuta

Embedding Disabled By Request!

484 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:25:48pm

re: #478 Spare O'Lake
He has no choice. He may find it inconvient, but the man took an oath. He can, I guess, do a piss poor job on purpose.

485 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:25:58pm

re: #480 Karridine

Keep your head down!

486 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:26:14pm

Good Evening you all! I hope everyone had a Happy Easter/ Zeisan Pesach!
According to the AP which I got in my earthlink e-mail news, snipers (SEALS) aboard the Bainbridge shot the three pirates who were on the Lifeboat which was being towed by the Bainbridge and the fourth Pirate, who was on the Bainbridge at the time, was "subdued" and arrested.

487 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:26:15pm

re: #480 Karridine
BE SAFE!

488 Salem  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:26:16pm

re: #452 jaunte

One good thing about that movie; it introduced my son to the actual music, and he took to it like a drink of water in the desert.

The music itself didn't actually phase me. Watching it in the ridiculous context they put it was the godawful part.

489 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:26:31pm

re: #477 jaunte

My daughter in the Army has wondered whatever happened to the creativity in music that was evident in the Beatles era, compared to now.

Me too.... *sigh* Me too.

490 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:26:42pm

Check out doubledip's link from the American Captain Freed thread:
Somalinet forum:
[Link: www.somalinet.com...]

491 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:26:42pm

OK I figured it out Sharm.. Nice. Haven't heard that in a while.

492 Racer X  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:26:48pm

re: #463 Sifty

Hands off my girlfriend.

OK.

I get her sister then.

493 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:26:50pm

the girl singing the chorus to 'Gimme Shelter' is Mary Clayton...I met her once....she is the older sister to Sam Clayton, conga player for Little Feat....friggin awsome, the most famous back up vocal ever...cool lady

494 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:27:03pm

re: #486 realwest

Good Evening you all! I hope everyone had a Happy Easter/ Zeisan Pesach!
According to the AP which I got in my earthlink e-mail news, snipers (SEALS) aboard the Bainbridge shot the three pirates who were on the Lifeboat which was being towed by the Bainbridge and the fourth Pirate, who was on the Bainbridge at the time, was "subdued" and arrested.

The only difference is it appears to have been Marines who did the sniping.

495 lifeofthemind  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:27:08pm

re: #465 Karridine

The Thai government is laying the public foundation for pulling the plug on this Red Shirt Short Shrift...

Finished talking as I typed.

You're alive!

Speaking of Red shirts, is there any evidence of Chinese involvement in this? I am looking at the big picture. Pakistan Iran etc. Stuff I follow on Belmont Club.

Your inputs appreciated.

496 sngnsgt  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:27:25pm

re: #421 Sleepyone

You know what I'm talking about when I say, "no snow". It'll be too soon for me if I never see that cold, awful, white sh!t ever again.

497 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:27:30pm

re: #483 Mich-again

Embedding Disabled By Request!

The Bastards! Linking the old way

498 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:28:06pm

re: #481 Bobblehead

From what I understand the Navy was to act if the captain's life was in "imminent" danger. That gives the brass wide latitude n'est-ce pas? All depends on what the admiral in charge sees as imminent danger.

seems to me....not a hard choice, that's what he's paid for anyway

499 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:28:30pm

re: #129 Syrah

One of the more interesting things about moving is discovering just how much stuff you actually own, and how much some of that stuff actually owns you.

About five years ago, my husband and I moved from a house that his parents had lived in before us. About ten years of continuous occupation. My darling comes by his packrattiness honestly. My MIL is a craftswoman. And my in-laws like to be prepared--we could have converted to the LDS, based on the food and water I discovered in the garage. Except it hadn't exactly been kept up...

I just started renting dumpsters. It was a long, strange, move.

500 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:28:36pm

re: #455 Irving

Here is the official press conference transcript: Vice Adm. Gortney's remarks.

501 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:28:37pm

re: #486 realwest

Good Evening you all! I hope everyone had a Happy Easter/ Zeisan Pesach!
According to the AP which I got in my earthlink e-mail news, snipers (SEALS) aboard the Bainbridge shot the three pirates who were on the Lifeboat which was being towed by the Bainbridge and the fourth Pirate, who was on the Bainbridge at the time, was "subdued" and arrested.

God bless snipers.

Got to love the word "subdued".

502 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:28:49pm

Beautiful? Check!
Rockin' bod? Check!
Attitude? Check!
Freaky long Lizard tongue? Check!

Allow me to introduce you to my future ex-wife.

/right

503 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:29:08pm

re: #498 albusteve
The chain of command actually got it right. Left it to the discretion of the on scene commander.

504 UncleSam  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:29:26pm

Last time I moved, it was a really hot day and I'd just gotten over a terrible bout of flu.
While loading the rental truck, I passed out and woke up in the hospital suffering from extreme dehydration and spent the next two and a half days on IV saline drip and painkillers for the sprained wrist and shoulder from falling when I passed out.
The hospital food was surprisingly good, though, and I had a great view of the Bay Area from my room.
Moving really sucks.

505 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:29:28pm

re: #489 Sharmuta

Me too.... *sigh* Me too.

fret not...there is a lot of great music out there begging for you to find it...you will

506 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:29:29pm

re: #495 lifeofthemind

I wouldn't put it past them, but no overt/official word of ChiCom involvement or meddling... the Royal Little Sister is actually on an official visit to China...

and YES! to Belmont Club... very clear-headed assessments there...

507 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:29:39pm

re: #484 pingjockey

He has no choice. He may find it inconvient, but the man took an oath. He can, I guess, do a piss poor job on purpose.

Watch for Obama to keep his head down on the piracy issue, and whatever he does say will studiously avoid the Muslim elephant in the Piracy room.

508 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:29:51pm

re: #461 pingjockey

Probbably be a good idea to lay back and watch the milblogs for the next few. If there's a backstory here, it will come out through them. Without any of the bullshit or obfuscation from the MSM OR White House.
just sayin....

509 lifeofthemind  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:30:49pm

re: #506 Karridine

I wouldn't put it past them, but no overt/official word of ChiCom involvement or meddling... the Royal Little Sister is actually on an official visit to China...

and YES! to Belmont Club... very clear-headed assessments there...

Thank you, be safe.

510 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:31:18pm

re: #501 Bobblehead

God bless snipers.

Got to love the word "subdued".


subdudes?

511 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:31:18pm

re: #508 irongrampa
Yep. They have the real contacts, field grade officers, ncos. The guys at the sharp end.

512 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:31:18pm

re: #480 Karridine

Stay safe, bro. The Lizard Army will be thinking of you and yours.

/I hear tell that some of us even pray. shocka ;)

513 Aviator  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:31:30pm

re: #507 Spare O'Lake

Watch for Obama to keep his head down on the piracy issue, and whatever he does say will studiously avoid the Muslim elephant in the Piracy room.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of the population is even aware of a) Somali pirates and b) the fact they are Muslim pirates.

514 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:31:40pm

re: #472 lightspeed

Sorry, can't give the President much credit here. According to current information, his orders were to NOT DO ANYTHING provocative unless the hostage was about to be killed ("imminent danger"). Had the pirates not stepped out into the open (apparently) with guns pointing at the Captain, they would still be out there drifting at sea negotiating with the FBI.

And another thing: one thought being expressed over at Kos, for example, is that Obama put himself on the line by authorizing the use of force, because if the whole thing had gone bad, the snipers missed their mark, the hostage was killed, etc., then we'd all be blaming Obama.

I'm not entirely sure that would have been the case. Did anyone actually hear him announcing that he had authorized a takedown before it happened? Not that he should have made that public, of course. But seeing as he didn't... Obama has done many things in his career, some of them very well. But I've never known him to take responsibility for any of his mistakes. It's quite possible that, if the mission had gone bad, he would have just thrown the commander under the famous Obama bus. "I am deeply concerned by what appears to be a reckless use of force by the U.S. military, which has resulted in the needless escalation of a situation that could have been solved by peaceful negotiations, and the needless death of an American citizen. I did not order this aggressive act, and I pledge that I will investigate it and ensure that the officers who were responsible will be relieved of duty."

Again, let's give credit where credit is due. But when you spend your whole life being a spineless weasel who shirks responsibility for your misdeeds, then you need to work a little harder to deserve credit when things go well.

515 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:31:53pm

re: #503 pingjockey

The chain of command actually got it right. Left it to the discretion of the on scene commander.

Yup. I feel the the danger will become imminent any time now. Get ready to fire boys!

516 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:31:58pm

re: #505 albusteve

fret not...there is a lot of great music out there begging for you to find it...you will

I've found some stuff I really love thanks to Pandora, such as this young lady:

517 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:32:24pm

re: #513 Aviator

a) 15%
b) 8%

518 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:32:34pm

re: #461 pingjockey
Hey ping! I understand how you feel and agree that Obama didn't plan this mission, but he did AUTHORIZE the use of military force to try to save an American who's life was in imminent danger. And given that, before the good Captain was freed many of us, including myself, wondered whether or not Obama had the brass to live up to his obligations as POTUS and CiC to defend Americans from danger, foreign and domestic, I am glad that he did apparently step up to the plate and told the Navy to save Captain Phillips.
For that I am THANKFUL - doesn't mean I agree with Obama's domestic policies, or the way he handled the North Korean Missile launch or anything else. But he got this one right. And for that I DO thank him.

519 dapperdave  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:33:08pm

re: #512 Slumbering Behemoth

Of course people pray in school, have you ever heard of a math test? ; )

520 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:33:15pm

re: #516 Sharmuta

I've found some stuff I really love thanks to Pandora, such as this young lady:


[Video]

I liked that

521 McJenny50  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:33:16pm

I don't know if this has been mentioned but Blackfive had an interesting take on the rescue:

This was not a rescue attempt ordered by National Command Authority i.e. the President. It was a reaction by the on scene commander under standard authority to safeguard the life of a hostage.

The AP is reporting that President Obama gave the order to use military force to rescue the hostage, that is misleading.

WASHINGTON (AP)—Administration officials say President Barack Obama approved the military operation that rescued a U.S. captain held hostage by Somali pirates.

The officials say Obama ordered the Defense Department to use military resources to rescue Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast.

He did affirm the military's authorization to use force if the captain's life was in danger, but they already would have had that authorization as part of their standard rules of engagement. If there are innocents about to be slaughtered the same reasoning that authorizes self defense also covers an imminent execution unless the ROE specifically forbid it.The AP is making it sound like there was an active rescue ordered by the President. It was not, there was an imminent threat and the local commander gave the order to fire. Good on Obama for ensuring their authorization was clear, but let's also be clear that he did not authorize or order an active rescue attempt.

[Link: www.blackfive.net...]

522 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:33:46pm

re: #514 Last Mohican
If the Navy had tried and failed, killed the pirates but the captain got killed, I would not have blamed obambi. A hostage rescue is as hairy as it gets.

523 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:33:55pm

Time for the old folk.

Be safe, good people.

524 Aviator  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:34:00pm

re: #517 jaunte

a) 15%
b) 8%

That b might be a smidge high. :)

525 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:34:07pm

The MSM chooses to describe the background of Somali Pirates as fishermen, while ignoring the fact that they are Muslims operating off the coast of a Muslim country.
Why?

526 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:34:42pm

re: #524 Aviator

My guess; I guess I'm an optimist. :-)

527 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:34:56pm

re: #507 Spare O'Lake

Watch for Obama to keep his head down on the piracy issue, and whatever he does say will studiously avoid the Muslim elephant in the Piracy room.

Well for one thing the news cycle will not be all about HIM this week so that will be a blow to his ego. I'm betting he announces some new initiative this week to get the conversation back to where it should be..about HIM.

528 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:35:14pm

re: #518 realwest
Yep. I gave him kudos earlier. I was commenting on some of our fellow lizards and some of the denigrating that was going on.

529 Mich-again  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:35:15pm

re: #514 Last Mohican

But I've never known him to take responsibility for any of his mistakes.

I thought that was what throwing them under the bus was all about.

530 lostlakehiker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:35:17pm

We can't know, and we shouldn't know, what the presidential orders were. We do know this much: before the first escape attempt, the orders were NOT to stand ready and attack the pirates the moment the captain made a break for it. That's what they maybe should have been, but it wasn't done.

Why "maybe"? Because it's easier to stage a rescue when you have better snipers in place and the bad guys are tired. That may have been a consideration. It did end well, after all.

The pirates are mad at us now, according to news reports. Before this, they were willing to be nice and just take our crews hostage and hold them for ransom, then kill them when we didn't pay. Now, they'll just have to kill our guys right away.

But damn it, there's no profit in that! It's enough to make a man look for better paying work, such as taking hostages from places that do pay up.

531 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:35:37pm

re: #520 albusteve

I really like her. I'm glad you liked it too.

Here's Sara doing Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay:

532 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:35:41pm

re: #472 lightspeed

Sorry, can't give the President much credit here. According to current information, his orders were to NOT DO ANYTHING provocative unless the hostage was about to be killed ("imminent danger"). "

Well, sorta. It was a legal nicety. Apparently you can't shoot pirates unless attacked or to another against imitate danger.

"Obama's involvement in the decision to authorize lethal force was legally required, officials said, because it was a hostage situation, not combat, and unrelated to the already authorized U.S. effort against al-Qaida and other terror groups, officials said."

533 LilyGecko  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:35:51pm

re: #527 Bobblehead

Well for one thing the news cycle will not be all about HIM this week so that will be a blow to his ego. I'm betting he announces some new initiative this week to get the conversation back to where it should be..about HIM.

I think I'll try "wait-and-see."

534 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:35:58pm

re: #515 Bobblehead

Yup. I feel the the danger will become imminent any time now. Get ready to fire boys!

Strange coincidence that the danger got unacceptably "imminent" just at the moment that the snipers reported having clear head shots on all three pirates remaining on the lifeboat. God moves in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform....

535 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:36:06pm

re: #480 Karridine

Slumbering, I've been BUSY
and
poverty-strick

Good to see YOU again, Bub!

and with that, I'm outta here... the Dogs of War have been loosed on the Thai protesters as of 10 minutes ago...

Karridine, glad to hear you're OK! Can we start to sing "Thailand - FUCK YEAH!" yet?

536 Racer X  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:36:21pm

re: #522 pingjockey

If the Navy had tried and failed, killed the pirates but the captain got killed, I would not have blamed obambi. A hostage rescue is as hairy as it gets.

Excellent point.

537 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:36:33pm

re: #531 Sharmuta

Sara Bareilles sounds a little like Bonnie Raitt; she's really good.

538 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:37:06pm

re: #183 Last Mohican

Anyone interested in the Daily Kos take on today's events?

For the most part, they're just praising Obama's wonderful leadership. But then there's this angle:

Most people don't just get up one day and say "Gee, I think I'd like to be a pirate!" The East Coast of Africa is a lawless, incredibly poor, place, and that's when people start sizing up how many dudes with guns it would take to take on one of those big-ass Russian ships going down the coast.

Doesn't change anything in a case like this, but looking for root causes is not totally crazy, because we're going to have to look for ways to get this situation under control.

539 Former Belgian  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:37:06pm

Good luck in your new lair, Charles. Hope this wasn't caused by jerkwad creeps sending you threats...

As for big 0... well, in my mother tongue: "If he does something right we should say so" :-) Wonder what they'll to to the surviving pirate: I understand there are many starving sharks, excuse me, "sea kittens"...

540 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:37:14pm

re: #516 Sharmuta

I've found some stuff I really love thanks to Pandora, such as this young lady:


Thumbs up Sharmuta.

541 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:37:34pm

re: #537 jaunte

Sara Bareilles sounds a little like Bonnie Raitt; she's really good.

Altos rock.

542 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:39:45pm

re: #521 McJenny50
With all respect, I believe that Obama's "second" authorization was to clarify the ROE and thus "free" the Captain of the Bainbridge to order the snipers to shoot.
Blackfive is VERY good, but remember, No officer (with any brains or desire for promotion) would have ordered the snipers to fire without clarification of the ROE - and I can certainly believe that Obama needed to clarify his ROE for the Navy.

543 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:39:58pm

re: #522 pingjockey

If the Navy had tried and failed, killed the pirates but the captain got killed, I would not have blamed obambi. A hostage rescue is as hairy as it gets.

I have questions as to how much credit he deserves (some of the media is overdoing it, I think), but I wouldn't have blamed him for that scenario, either.

544 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:40:05pm

re: #538 SanFranciscoZionist
How are you going to address root cause in a place that is anarchy defined? Somalia has NO functioning gov't or any kind of civil infrastructure. You can't send aid or help, there's no authority but out the barrel of a gun.

545 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:40:18pm

re: #228 Boxy_brown

Really trying to figure out what Obama actually did here.

Captain Phillips saved his ship...

The US Navy saved Phillips...

Obama picked out a dog...

Since I was actually starting to think the day would never come, I'm pretty happy about that.

546 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:40:19pm

re: #531 Sharmuta

I really like her. I'm glad you liked it too.

Here's Sara doing Sittin' on the Dock of the Bay:


[Video]

I'm into woman performers....what's her last name again?....got my book out, I dig it

547 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:40:53pm

re: #534 stuiec

Strange coincidence that the danger got unacceptably "imminent" just at the moment that the snipers reported having clear head shots on all three pirates remaining on the lifeboat. God moves in mysterious ways, His wonders to perform....

Indeed!

548 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:40:55pm

re: #546 albusteve

I'm into woman performers....what's her last name again?....got my book out, I dig it

nevermind...got it

549 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:41:05pm

re: #516 Sharmuta

Nice. She almost has a Bonnie Raitt sort of feel.

550 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:41:18pm

re: #543 capitalist piglet
He deserves credit for letting the military do its job. That's it.

551 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:41:19pm

re: #546 albusteve

Sara Bareilles.

552 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:41:24pm

The Kid hit the wall more than two hours ago and is fast asleep. I've tidied up and am tuckered out. Good night, Lizards.

553 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:42:08pm

re: #522 pingjockey

If the Navy had tried and failed, killed the pirates but the captain got killed, I would not have blamed obambi. A hostage rescue is as hairy as it gets.

Agreed. I wouldn't have blamed Obama for a failed rescue attempt either.

554 Racer X  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:42:09pm
555 MJBrutus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:42:12pm

I'll join the chorus with you Charles. Thank you Mr. President for authorizing a well-planned and well-executed mission!

556 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:42:20pm

re: #521 McJenny50

I don't know if this has been mentioned but Blackfive had an interesting take on the rescue:

This was not a rescue attempt ordered by National Command Authority i.e. the President. It was a reaction by the on scene commander under standard authority to safeguard the life of a hostage.

see my 532

557 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:42:21pm

re: #552 MandyManners
Good night Mandy!

558 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:42:56pm

re: #406 Karridine

Karradine -

Good to hear from ye, lad. Been awhile. Saw the video on CNN and Fox. Your Red-Shirts look pretty serious to me.

-S-

559 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:43:04pm

Susan Tedeschi....my kind a gal


560 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:43:19pm

re: #533 LilyGecko

I think I'll try "wait-and-see."

Perhaps the best course, but I've gotten very cynical in the last month or so.

561 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:43:20pm

Evening all. Was overjoyed to see the good Captain rescued. But you know that in the eyes of the pirates, this rescue was/is a declaration of war.

The only questions I have are ..........

Does this administration realize it?

Is it ready to devote the resources ?

Does it really care?

And last but not least, since this is truly a multinational problem, is this administration ready to demand that those countries who are being affected by it, actively participate in the eradication of these attacks, up to and including the the use of ground forces to root out and destroy their bases?

Answer.................. NOPE

///////////// We just need to understand why they are doing this.

May the Deity of your choice have mercy on any sailor that is thought to be be American. Because these assholes killers will not.

562 eddiespaghetti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:43:22pm

re: #538 SanFranciscoZionist

Root causes are solved by force.

563 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:43:48pm

hey, I'm back. Was watching Max Payne with the kid. I thought it was LAME.

564 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:44:03pm

Here's another I've come to like, Sara Bareilles- One Sweet Love

565 lightspeed  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:44:07pm

re: #482 LilyGecko

It is implied that they Navy was ordered not to do anything provocative unless the Captain's life was in imminent danger. Otherwise, why have the order?

Obama: "Take action if his life is in imminent danger"

Naval Commander: "What if we have an opportunity to extract him safely, but his life is NOT in imminent danger?"

Obama reponds: "Take action if his life is in imminent danger"

What is the answer to the Commander's question? Obviously it is "No." That's the impression I got from watching Vice Adm. Gortney's press conference.

Gortney's press conference from C-Span

566 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:44:15pm

re: #293 ConservatismNow!

Holy crap lizards. Some chicky in my Humanities class said World War II was not necessary. I guess we should have just let the Art School Dropout have Poland. I tried very hard not to lay into her too much.

Perhaps she is also an art school dropout, and feels some sort of empathy...?

567 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:45:15pm

re: #549 Slumbering Behemoth

Nice. She almost has a Bonnie Raitt sort of feel.

Raitt rules....there is no other like her or as good of a player

568 lightspeed  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:45:41pm

re: #514 Last Mohican

Amen.

569 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:45:48pm

re: #536 Racer X

The French just mounted a hostage rescue operation on a yacht that had been taken by pirates.

April 12 2009 at 06:35PM

Paris - Four freed hostages, including the widow and three-year-old son of a French skipper killed in a special forces shootout with Somali pirates, arrived home on Sunday in a state of shock.

Defence Minister Herve Morin welcomed Chloe Lemacon, her son Colin and two friends also taken hostage on the yacht, at a military airport near Paris where they touched down on a French-chartered aircraft at 5:00 pm (1500 GMT).

The yacht's owner, 28-year-old Florent Lemacon, was killed when commandos stormed on board the Tanit on Friday, six days after it was seized in one of the latest of a rash of pirate attacks off east Africa.

Two pirates were shot dead as commandos stormed the yacht, while three others were taken prisoner.

Morin has said he "cannot rule out" that Lemacon was killed by French fire, saying a inquiry would determine what happened on board the Tanit.

It was not immediately known if his body was on the plane, or if it would be repatriated separately.

Chloe and Florent Lemacon left France's Brittany region in July last year with their son, then two years old, aboard the 12.5m yacht, picking up two travelling companions along the way.

The Lemacons were headed for Zanzibar, having decided to cross the pirate-infested waters off the Somali coast to fulfil a travellers' dream despite concerns for their safety.

They were around 640km off Ras Hafun in northeast Somalia when they were captured on April 4.

According to an armed forces spokesperson, Lemacon was shot in the head as French commandos traded fire with two Kalashnikov-wielding pirates who were sheltering inside the yacht cabin.

The defence ministry said he was trying to shield his wife and child with a mattress as bullets flew around the boat.

Morin has defended the commando operation saying Paris did all it could to save the child's life, including offering to pay an unspecified ransom or for a French officer to trade places with the mother and son.

He said French forces launched their assault to stop the hostage-takers from reaching their base on the Somali coast, which was no more than 30km away.

Francis Lemacon, the skipper's father, issued a statement paying tribute to his son and thanking the French state and the soldiers "who risked their lives" to rescue the hostages.

"We have lost more than a son. We are crushed by grief," he wrote in a statement.

"Florent and his wife, with Colin on the Tanit, chose a lifestyle. In their own way, they fought for their beliefs: in peace, ecology, tolerance and the right to live differently, solidarity and the value of sharing," he said.

"With his moral sense, a pacifist is dead. With his love for Africa and Africans, a traveller is dead. With his rejection of comfort, of the world of money, a dreamer is dead.

"With his passion for, and knowledge of the ocean, a sailor is dead. With his taste for freedom, a philosopher and musician is dead."

Writing on their Internet blog two weeks before the hijacking, the Lemacons said they had started sailing with the lights off to avoid detection.

"We are in the middle of the piracy zone, but so far there is nothing to report. The danger is there and has indeed become greater over the past months, but the ocean is vast. The pirates must not be allowed to destroy our dream," they wrote.

The French military launched a rescue operation to free a luxury yacht, Le Ponant, and its 30 crew in April last year, and in September sent commandos to release a French couple seized by pirates aboard their yacht.

Twelve suspected pirates are currently being held in custody in France.

570 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:45:52pm

And this is supposedly her latest song to be released:

571 stuiec  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:46:50pm

re: #543 capitalist piglet

I have questions as to how much credit he deserves (some of the media is overdoing it, I think), but I wouldn't have blamed him for that scenario, either.

Same here.

572 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:47:31pm

re: #569 stuiec

The French will hold the pirates, but not any terrorists. Imagine that....

573 LilyGecko  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:48:03pm

Frankly, I don't care what Obama's exact orders were, I'm just happy that this captain is safe and with his family, and that three pirates are dead.

574 WindHorse  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:48:04pm

re: #569 stuiec

that is such a sad story...... why did they feel the need to ply these dangerous waters?

575 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:48:24pm

re: #565 lightspeed

It is implied that they Navy was ordered not to do anything provocative unless the Captain's life was in imminent danger. Otherwise, why have the order?

Obama: "Take action if his life is in imminent danger"

Naval Commander: "What if we have an opportunity to extract him safely, but his life is NOT in imminent danger?"

Obama reponds: "Take action if his life is in imminent danger"

What is the answer to the Commander's question? Obviously it is "No." That's the impression I got from watching Vice Adm. Gortney's press conference.

Gortney's press conference from C-Span

In other words" let him rot unless his life is in imminent danger" or is it "you decide what imminent means at any given time"?

576 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:48:32pm

re: #572 Macker
Dudes at Gitmo didn't attack any French people or interests.

577 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:48:37pm

re: #559 albusteve

Susan Tedeschi....my kind a gal

Bummer...disabled

578 Syrah  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:49:37pm

re: #565 lightspeed

It is implied that they Navy was ordered not to do anything provocative unless the Captain's life was in imminent danger. Otherwise, why have the order?

Obama: "Take action if his life is in imminent danger"

Naval Commander: "What if we have an opportunity to extract him safely, but his life is NOT in imminent danger?"

Obama reponds: "Take action if his life is in imminent danger"

What is the answer to the Commander's question? Obviously it is "No." That's the impression I got from watching Vice Adm. Gortney's press conference.

Gortney's press conference from C-Span

Captain Phillips held captive by 7th century pirates armed with AK-47s.
[x] His life is in imminent danger.
[ ] His life is not in imminent danger.

Looks pretty clear cut to me.

But I suppose I could get in trouble for thinking like that.

579 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:49:57pm

I think I like John Mayer's Gravity better than Sara's

580 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:50:08pm

re: #576 pingjockey
Indeed they don't! Regrettably, the way things stand now Gitmo will be closed and some of the barbarians insided will be released into the USA proper.

581 twincitiesgirl  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:50:31pm

My hat is off to the Navy Seals who, like Captain Phillips, are the real heroes of this story. Thank you Mr President for listening to your military advisors and ordering the perfect response at just the right time. Well done!

582 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:50:49pm

re: #565 lightspeed

It is implied that they Navy was ordered not to do anything provocative unless the Captain's life was in imminent danger. Otherwise, why have the order?


As explained in my # 532 you can't shoot a non combatant unless they are terrorists without a order from the POTUS . A rule we need to change IMHO. BTW, I don't think the Commander on the spot followed the letter of the stupid law, nor did anyone care.

583 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:50:50pm

re: #561 Bubblehead II

Bubblehead II -

Q-Ships under Limited Letters of Marque, If Congress has the guts, would solve the problem on a practical basis without the need to touch the Somali homeland. May they stew in their own sewerage. They earned it.

-S-

584 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:51:01pm

re: #544 pingjockey

How are you going to address root cause in a place that is anarchy defined? Somalia has NO functioning gov't or any kind of civil infrastructure. You can't send aid or help, there's no authority but out the barrel of a gun.

If I had a great plan...well, I wouldn't be teaching high school English for a living. Somalia is a right effing mess. But someone is going to have to come up with a game plan at some point. I don't know if the root causes can be addressed, or will be. Just sayin'.

585 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:51:09pm

re: #580 realwest
That has the potential to turn out very, very, bad.

586 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:51:14pm

re: #578 Syrah

Captain Phillips held captive by 7th century pirates armed with AK-47s.
[x] His life is in imminent danger.
[ ] His life is not in imminent danger.

Looks pretty clear cut to me.

But I suppose I could get in trouble for thinking like that.

Jumping in the water- big ol' check mark next to "imminent danger". 'Nuff said.

587 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:51:39pm

re: #577 Wishing

Bummer...disabled

find her...soon...she is a huge talent...Derek Trucks wife...I won't lie to you...she is the next best thing to Bonnie Raitt (who walks on water at my place)

588 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:51:41pm

re: #581 twincitiesgirl

The new avatar is adorable.

589 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:51:55pm

re: #584 SanFranciscoZionist
Ya, I hear you.

590 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:52:19pm

re: #585 pingjockey You certainly have a way with understating things my friend! LOL!

591 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:53:29pm

re: #579 Sharmuta

I think I like John Mayer's Gravity better than Sara's


[Video]

he is a young beast...he needs to learn to contain himself...he will age nicely

592 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:53:55pm

re: #574 WindHorse

that is such a sad story...... why did they feel the need to ply these dangerous waters?

They felt the need to do this, I think, because they were free people.
Free people take risks, freedom gives them that special something that says, Yes, I believe I can do this!
We are so blessed to be surrounded with the sweet taste of liberty.

593 twincitiesgirl  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:53:58pm

re: #588 Sharmuta

Thank you!

594 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:54:16pm

re: #574 WindHorse

that is such a sad story...... why did they feel the need to ply these dangerous waters?

They thought they were invulnerable.

They were, sadly, wrong.

The French did the right thing. I'm sorry that the owner died, it's very sad.

595 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:54:35pm

more Susan....ACL gig


596 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:54:38pm

re: #590 realwest
Heh. I have no idea what madness the admin is thinking even letting those maniacs into the country. The admin is either very stupid or delusional with thinking the terrorists are going to change their spots.

597 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:55:38pm

re: #587 albusteve

find her...soon...she is a huge talent...Derek Trucks wife...I won't lie to you...she is the next best thing to Bonnie Raitt (who walks on water at my place)

Will do.

598 Rich H  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:55:43pm

He did well in one of his early international challenges. He deserves credit for a good decision and a good outcome. I like the fact that he sequestered himself from the media until the decision was taken.

599 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:56:58pm

re: #591 albusteve

he is a young beast...he needs to learn to contain himself...he will age nicely

There's a lot of his stuff I like, and a couple I could do without. How about sticking with the previous theme? John Mayer doing Ray Charles?

600 WindHorse  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:57:03pm

re: #592 Wishing

I understand what you are saying.... and (likely) what they were thinking... but they had a 3-year old..... and that is where I lose a grip on understanding this. They had made this decision to bring a child into the world. At that point, their idealism should have been reined in.

601 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:57:09pm

re: #586 Sharmuta

Jumping in the water- big ol' check mark next to "imminent danger". 'Nuff said.

The first time, it was 300 yards away, midnight, SEALS not there yet, 10 seconds to act. IMHO, I like the chances to save the captain better at 30 yards, during the day and with a SEAL team on site. I think the Navy made the better choice to wait a day.

602 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:57:40pm

re: #371 Mich-again

If everyone would hold hands and sing Kumquat no wars would be necessary.

Ha. I Like how when you type Kumbaya the spellchecker recommends Kumquat. Double HA.

There's these little custard patty dessert things at my favorite Chinese restaurant. My girlfriends and I refer to them as World Peace Custards because we have a theory that if we could get everyone on the planet two or three of them AT THE SAME TIME, everyone would calm the hell down, and peace would break out.

They really need to be eaten hot, though, so the logistics have so far eluded us. We just contribute by eating lots of them ourselves.

603 lightspeed  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:58:17pm

re: #532 avanti

Well, sorta. It was a legal nicety. Apparently you can't shoot pirates unless attacked or to another against imitate danger.

Heh. Maybe. International maritime law has been ineffective and vague in cases of piracy on the high seas (not within a country's 12-mile limit). In the case of Somalia, it is even more problematic as there is no real rule of law in that country. Anyway, our Constitution actually speaks to the issue of piracy (U.S. Constitution, Art. I Sec. 8 cl. 10):

"The Congress shall have Power ... To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations"

604 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:58:31pm

Good night folks!

605 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 8:59:09pm

If the president set a standing order to proceed with negotiations yet "Take action if his life is in imminent danger" and in the end it works out to be a success why argue the details?

The ultimate goal was to rescue Captain Phillips and the fact that President Obama allowed the on scene commanders a certain degree of flexibility which in the end resulted in his release and the deaths of three pirates and the capture of one is all that matters. Thank goodness Obama didn't get involved in the details since that could have proven catastrophic. His orders were simple in which to negotiate yet take action when the opportunity arrises. This was not the result of any particular mission but an action based upon an opportunity at sea.

The real hero in the end is Captain Phillips. Through his leadership and dedication to his crew and the Maersk Alabama he created a circumstance in which the crew was able to repel the pirates and retake control of the ship. Without his efforts the crew and the ship would have been in the Gulf of Aden as we type with more lives in danger including those of our armed forces. Second to Captain Phillips would be the crew of Maersk Alabama.

It worked.

606 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:00:01pm

re: #586 Sharmuta

Jumping in the water- big ol' check mark next to "imminent danger". 'Nuff said.

It wouldn't surprise me if the commander said "Enough is enough! We've got a clear shot at all 3 pirates. It's a go!"

607 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:00:39pm

Good night ping - sleep well!

608 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:00:55pm

re: #600 WindHorse

I understand what you are saying.... and (likely) what they were thinking... but they had a 3-year old..... and that is where I lose a grip on understanding this. They had made this decision to bring a child into the world. At that point, their idealism should have been reined in.

I am not sure I agree with you, Wind. They wanted to teach their son about our world. He has learned much. My guess is that he will grow to cherish the same freedom his father knew.
Was it a dumb decision? Yes I suppose it was. But would it be a dumb decision , as a Jew, to move to Israel? Where do we draw the line and say, To hell with them, we will live as free people!
It's a hard one, for sure.

609 Bob Dillon  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:00:57pm

re: #156 Last Mohican

I still don't understand that part. Wouldn't that have been an excellent opportunity for the Navy to turn all of them into little pirate pieces, thereby saving the captain a few days of agony and danger, and avoiding having to risk the sniper shots?

Here's a boat like the pirate's lifeboat:
Image: 44%20Lifeboat.JPG

610 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:01:05pm

re: #599 Sharmuta

There's a lot of his stuff I like, and a couple I could do without. How about sticking with the previous theme? John Mayer doing Ray Charles?


[Video]

re: #599 Sharmuta

There's a lot of his stuff I like, and a couple I could do without. How about sticking with the previous theme? John Mayer doing Ray Charles?


[Video]

cool...I'm not totally stuck in tradition...just show me the beef eh?....this is pretty cool

611 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:02:32pm

Ray Charles....I Got a Woman


612 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:02:58pm

Albusteve:
Susan Tedeschi, excellent!

613 JustMyView  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:03:24pm

Three stories from the Washington Post on the rescue of Capt. Phillips

The story as a whole

What the SEALS did

On Obama's role

614 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:03:26pm

Lynyrd Skynyrd- Sweet Home Alabama

615 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:03:36pm

re: #612 Wishing

Albusteve:
Susan Tedeschi, excellent!

yes...keep looking, it gets better

616 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:04:49pm

I hope the brave captain and his crew have a joyous reunion very soon. Also, I'm sure his wife and kids will want to keep him at home for a while.

617 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:05:07pm

re: #610 albusteve

John Mayer covering Hendrix:

618 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:05:13pm

Captain Phillips Right After Rescue on Navy Ship {DoD Video}


619 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:05:18pm

re: #614 Gus 802
Hey thanks Gus! One of my all time fav's - a guitar pickers dream song!

620 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:06:18pm

my fu is worn..
.rock on brothers and sisters....when all else is dim we have the sound of the soul to pull us foreward...music


I'm outski...Sharmuta beat me down again...heh...she's just a kid tho

621 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:06:20pm

re: #619 realwest

Hey thanks Gus! One of my all time fav's - a guitar pickers dream song!

Yeah, thought it was appropriate for the Maersk Alabama too. :)

622 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:06:22pm

re: #558 Dr. Shalit

We'll see... the next few hours will set the pace for RECOVERY or RECESSION...

DISUNITY is the crippler, Dr Shalit, when We the People can't UNITE past our small differences...

623 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:07:26pm

re: #606 Bobblehead

It wouldn't surprise me if the commander said "Enough is enough! We've got a clear shot at all 3 pirates. It's a go!"

I'm convinced that's exactly why suspect. Fox is saying the Navy saw the pirates were agitated and waving their guns around, so they took a clear shot. Oddly, I'd seen a earlier report that the 16 year old surrendered because they pirates had run out of ammo, but it disappeared off the web site, so who knows. I don't care if they shot the bastards because they were caught smoking when the smoking lamp was not lit.

624 jorline  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:09:07pm

Late night drive by.

Don't worry about the Polar Bears!
There"s no shortage of red meat in Germany.

Polar bear attacks woman at Berlin Zoo Woman jumps into Polar Bear cage during feeding time.

Don't feed the bears!

Good night all

625 Austin Conservative  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:09:11pm

Sorry, I don't give props to Obama for anything. The Navy did their job and Obama did whatever the folks who pull his strings told him to do. Personally, I think it is just navy doing their job. Obama did NOTHING and deserves no admiration or kudos. The navy and seals do though.

626 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:09:16pm

re: #620 albusteve

I'm outski...Sharmuta beat me down again...heh...she's just a kid tho

Teehee. Who Did You Think I Was?

627 swamprat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:10:11pm

re: #623 avanti

What have you done with avanti?

628 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:10:41pm

re: #627 swamprat

What have you done with avanti?

(Shhhh! He doesn't know that he is out of costume!)

629 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:11:41pm

What sucks worse than moving?

Cleaning up the old place you've just moved out of.

630 albusteve  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:13:19pm

re: #626 Sharmuta

respect mon

631 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:13:19pm

re: #596 pingjockey

Yes.

632 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:13:26pm

re: #583 Dr. Shalit

Q-Ships? Will not happen. The only solution to this problem is to allow the shipping company's to either employ trained security teams to be allowed on board with adequate fire power to repel a boarding or training the crew and providing them with the weapons to do it.

From my perspective, there are only two things stopping this from happening.

The first is International treaties forbidding civilian merchant ships from being armed and the shipping companies being hamstrung by their insurance companies fearing lawsuits.

Get rid of both of these constrains and the problem will go away.

The pirates want to capture the ship, not sink it.

633 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:14:13pm

re: #624 jorline

Late night drive by.

Don't worry about the Polar Bears!
There"s no shortage of red meat in Germany.

Polar bear attacks woman at Berlin Zoo Woman jumps into Polar Bear cage during feeding time.

Don't feed the bears!

Good night all

What in the world...?

We had a guy climb into the rhino enclosure at the SF zoo not too long ago.

What is the thought process here? I mean, polar bears are beautiful and interesting, but they are, ya know, top-of-the-food-chain predators.

634 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:14:31pm

re: #630 albusteve

You have a good night, and I'll see you soon.

635 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:14:56pm

All this music is good. Great, in fact. But I gotta represent for the headbanging, metal lovin' Lizards.

WHITE!
WHALE!
HOLY!
GRAIL!

636 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:15:02pm

re: #624 jorline

What an id10t!

637 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:15:11pm

re: #622 Karridine
Hey Karridine! How are you? Safe over there, I hope and pray.

638 Wishing  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:16:24pm

Goodnight all.
Sleep well.

639 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:16:56pm

re: #638 Wishing
Good night Wishing, sleep well yourself!

640 wiffersnapper  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:17:03pm

Way to go SEALs!

641 swamprat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:17:48pm

re: #632 Bubblehead II
Set up a "shipping lane".

Cross the line, swim in brine.

642 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:18:05pm

re: #633 SanFranciscoZionist

I blame Walt Disney.
/

643 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:18:21pm

Gordon Lightfoot - The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald

644 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:18:51pm

re: #633 SanFranciscoZionist

What in the world...?

We had a guy climb into the rhino enclosure at the SF zoo not too long ago.

What is the thought process here? I mean, polar bears are beautiful and interesting, but they are, ya know, top-of-the-food-chain predators.

And the headline is really obnoxious--"Bear Attacks Woman". Like the bear started this? How about "Polar Bear Bites Home Invader in Self-Defense"?

645 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:20:04pm

re: #642 jaunte

I blame Walt Disney.
/

Cuddly giant animals interacting peacefully with princesses? Suppose so. But it's never KIDS who do this, for some reason.

646 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:20:06pm

re: #644 SanFranciscoZionist

And the headline is really obnoxious--"Bear Attacks Woman". Like the bear started this? How about "Polar Bear Bites Home Invader in Self-Defense"?

The woman endangered (may even have killed) the bear. We can't allow critters that have attacked humans - however justified - to live.

647 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:20:08pm

re: #643 Gus 802
Hey Gus - tell me what you think of this one:

648 swamprat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:20:23pm

Killing pirates only causes more piracy.

Read it in the papers; it must be true.

649 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:20:56pm

re: #645 SanFranciscoZionist

Cuddly giant animals interacting peacefully with princesses? Suppose so. But it's never KIDS who do this, for some reason.

Yeah, most kids are actually better connected to reality than some adults.

650 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:20:57pm

re: #645 SanFranciscoZionist
That's cause the Kids are too smart to do that!

651 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:21:23pm

re: #644 SanFranciscoZionist

And the headline is really obnoxious--"Bear Attacks Woman". Like the bear started this? How about "Polar Bear Bites Home Invader in Self-Defense"?

And sleeping in baby bears bed and eating his porridge...

652 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:21:34pm

re: #642 jaunte

I blame Walt Disney.
/

I agree. If it weren't for his visions of goofy talking predators we'd all be a lot better off and more grounded in reality. Now..how can we sue him for the damage done to our psyches? LOL

653 acwgusa  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:21:52pm

Charles, are you leaving the land of fruits and nuts, or just relocating within frutinuttiland?

654 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:22:06pm

re: #652 Bobblehead

I'm still looking for an economically feasible monorail...

655 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:22:10pm

re: #649 jaunte
Heh, GMTA!

656 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:22:20pm

re: #647 realwest

Hey Gus - tell me what you think of this one:
[Link: vimeo.com...]

Great voices. Good video and sound quality. I like it.

Is that a documentary?

657 Dianna  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:23:20pm

I'm out.

Night, all!

658 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:23:46pm

re: #657 Dianna

I'm out.

Night, all!

Later.

659 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:23:46pm

re: #646 Dianna

The woman endangered (may even have killed) the bear. We can't allow critters that have attacked humans - however justified - to live.

I hadn't even thought of that. That's really awful.

660 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:24:14pm

re: #656 Gus 802
I don't know! It was sent to me by a very good friend who knows I like a)"Stand By Me" b)some street musicians and c) all sorts a folks singing the same cool song!

661 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:24:47pm

re: #657 Dianna
Good night Dianna - sleep well.

662 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:24:53pm

re: #657 Dianna

I'm out.

Night, all!

Night!

663 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:24:54pm

re: #660 realwest

That's terrific. Thanks for sharing.

664 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:25:12pm

re: #660 realwest

I don't know! It was sent to me by a very good friend who knows I like a)"Stand By Me" b)some street musicians and c) all sorts a folks singing the same cool song!

I like the way it builds up too. Worldwide for one song.

665 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:25:15pm

re: #657 Dianna

Goodnight Dianna.

666 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:25:37pm

re: #641 swamprat

Set up a "shipping lane".

Cross the line, swim in brine.

Shipping lanes are already set up and clearly marked on the charts.

667 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:26:19pm

re: #17 irongrampa

Yes, he did the right thing-by standing back and letting the professionals handle it.

Yes. And I'm thrilled he did so. I hope this shows that he trusts Gates and Mullen and that they can work well together.

668 Pietr  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:26:24pm

re: #660 realwest

Hey RW, missed you on Saturday, my fault. So Belated Happy Birfday.....

669 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:26:49pm

re: #663 jaunte My pleasure my friend!

670 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:27:35pm

re: #644 SanFranciscoZionist

Damn! You just a got an upding for that.

671 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:27:58pm

re: #664 Gus 802 Yep! When I first saw it, for the first minute or so, I thought yeah, ok, this old Black guy's playing a guitar and all and then ...........WHAMMO! LOL!

672 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:28:08pm

Meanwhile, Sheikh Habib al-Habib demonstrates once again why he will never be a threat to Judge Judy's ratings.

673 Alberta Oil Peon  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:28:34pm

re: #544 pingjockey

How are you going to address root cause in a place that is anarchy defined? Somalia has NO functioning gov't or any kind of civil infrastructure. You can't send aid or help, there's no authority but out the barrel of a gun.

The answer, believe it or not, is to re-colonize the place. Not to plunder its resources and exploit the labor of its people, but to impose order, establish some sort of economy, and an education system. Basically drag the people, kicking and screaming, into the 20th century. (Yeah, I know it's now the 21st century, but you have to walk before you can run.)

674 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:28:53pm

re: #668 Pietr
Well thank you Pietr - just extends my birthday feelings one more day!

675 avanti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:28:57pm

re: #627 swamprat

What have you done with avanti?

Hey, just because I'm not for starting a war at the drop of a hat, does not mean I'll let some third world ass holes mess with our citizens without speaking out. Not all liberals are friggin Jimmy Carter ya know.

676 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:29:09pm

re: #644 SanFranciscoZionist

And the headline is really obnoxious--"Bear Attacks Woman". Like the bear started this? How about "Polar Bear Bites Home Invader in Self-Defense"?

That woman was a rare example of the uninvited yet welcome dinner guest. Lucky for her she got out.

677 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:30:09pm

re: #671 realwest

Yep! When I first saw it, for the first minute or so, I thought yeah, ok, this old Black guy's playing a guitar and all and then ...........WHAMMO! LOL!

Must be other songs this was done with. Interesting concept and execution.

678 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:30:13pm

re: #646 Dianna

People tend to forget that polar bears are just Animals.

679 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:30:37pm

re: #614 Gus 802

Lynyrd Skynyrd- Sweet Home Alabama


[Video]

Man, the guitarist is not as I remember him. Is he on a diet?

680 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:31:02pm

re: #673 Alberta Oil Peon
Gee, I thought the UN was supposed to take care of situations like Somalia?!
/very heavy.

681 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:31:15pm

Night all. 0400 comes early.

L8R

682 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:31:30pm

re: #679 Archimedes

Man, the guitarist is not as I remember him. Is he on a diet?

Don't know really.

683 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:31:49pm

re: #637 realwest

Hey Karridine! How are you? Safe over there, I hope and pray.

RealWest, family safe, but I wanted to share that you (and any other friends, Lizards or KnowMee's ) can get a FREE book with recent pictures of life in Luang Prabang, Laos (almost as good as Michael Yon, but by Roger Beaumont) here!

684 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:32:06pm

re: #678 Macker

People tend to forget that polar bears are just Animals.

I have a friend who still has a bad case of Knut-itus...Knut has ceased to be a cute wee cub.

685 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:32:25pm

Ok now we've still got 2 reporters being held by N.Korea and Iran. What to do about them?

686 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:32:35pm

Late to the game...how much credit does Obama get for this sea rescue?

687 anotherindyfilmguy  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:33:12pm

The only thing the O' actually did in this was to do nothing and let the professionals do what had to be done... which is, unfortunately for him and us, about the best he seems to be able to bumble into for anything at all.
See ya'll Lizards in 8 or 9 days...
=)

688 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:33:25pm

re: #13 BatGuano

He did the right thing. I did not think he had the balls.

he doesn't .... but the on scene commander did.

689 anotherindyfilmguy  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:33:46pm

re: #686 JohnAdams

None other than "he didn't do anything to screw it up".

690 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:33:54pm

re: #684 Dustyvet

I have a friend who still has a bad case of Knut-itus...Knut has ceased to be a cute wee cub.

Knut is quite loco at this point. Although it could have been worse. Usually the people that jump into bear habitats have mental problems or are intoxicated on something or another.

691 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:34:04pm

re: #686 JohnAdams

As a chief executive, he did the right thing.

692 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:34:30pm

re: #686 JohnAdams

Late to the game...how much credit does Obama get for this sea rescue?

Not much. The Navy did all the work.

693 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:34:58pm

re: #683 Karridine Thanks my friend and I'm glad that the family is safe, but what about you?!?

694 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:35:36pm

re: #691 jaunte

Not micromanagement as in Johnson or Carter.

695 aussiemagpie  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:35:43pm

re: #622 Karridine

We'll see... the next few hours will set the pace for RECOVERY or RECESSION...

DISUNITY is the crippler, Dr Shalit, when We the People can't UNITE past our small differences...

G'day Karradine, good to see you!

I was wondering yesterday if you were still here as I haven't seen you for a while, so I'm happy to see you :-)

One question - my son and a good mate are heading to Thailand on the 28th April, and he's getting a bit worried - he was wondering whether to pack a red shirt or a yellow one!

He's hoping the airport in Bangkok is not in lockdown as it was a few months back, and that they can make their way south safely to Phi Phi Island for their diving holiday

696 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:36:28pm

re: #686 JohnAdams

Late to the game...how much credit does Obama get for this sea rescue?

none, at least in my book. the ROE has been around for years, and the local command made the call.

since Ear Leader wouldn't/wouldn't even mention the issue, he didn't even vote "present" on the issue.

besides: i doubt there's enough testosterone in his entire blood line to man up enough to do this sort of thing. WAB has bigger stones than he does.

697 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:37:39pm

re: #686 JohnAdams
Well he authorized what went down. And after authorizing it he stayed the hell out of the way. And as CiC that was his call - I give him props on this one issue.

698 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:37:42pm

re: #695 aussiemagpie

I think coups in Thailand are fairly routine and velvet. I was there several years back and a coup took place. My family was calling all frantic, and I did not even know anything went down.

699 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:37:59pm

re: #695 aussiemagpie

Pee Pee Island... they don't use ph as f here... shouldn't use ph at all...

Red Shirt... the Yellows are widely loathed... but come! Should (BIG IF-WORD here) SHOULD be mellow...

700 swamprat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:38:04pm

re: #666 Bubblehead II

Half done then. No need to protect individual ships. Just guard the corridor...Say... maybe some sort of International consortium could take on this responsibility.

To what group of nations might this jurisdiction fall?
Maybe some sort of trade group?

Say! Maybe the UNITED NATIONS MIGHT TAKE TIME OFF FROM THEIR BUSY SCHEDULE OF CONDEMNING ISRAEL, AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE!

It could happen.

701 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:38:50pm

re: #694 jaunte

Not micromanagement as in Johnson or Carter.

Yeah, I can picture Johnson now on the phone to Vietnam with McNamara in the background.

Anyway, kind of worn out on the topic.

702 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:38:51pm

re: #695 aussiemagpie

G'day Karradine, good to see you!

I was wondering yesterday if you were still here as I haven't seen you for a while, so I'm happy to see you :-)

One question - my son and a good mate are heading to Thailand on the 28th April, and he's getting a bit worried - he was wondering whether to pack a red shirt or a yellow one!

He's hoping the airport in Bangkok is not in lockdown as it was a few months back, and that they can make their way south safely to Phi Phi Island for their diving holiday


An Aussie story for you...:)

The castaway dog who swam SIX miles through shark-infested waters, then survived FOUR months on a desert island

[Link: rpc.blogrolling.com...]

703 swamprat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:39:13pm

re: #675 avanti

Hey, just because I'm not for starting a war at the drop of a hat, does not mean I'll let some third world ass holes mess with our citizens without speaking out. Not all liberals are friggin Jimmy Carter ya know.

Don't ever change. We love you the way you are.

704 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:39:23pm

A: Going to and from the LGF threads, and walking up and down on them.

Kill and i will be damned
Forgive and i will be free

705 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:39:32pm

re: #695 aussiemagpie
Hey, good early morning to you {aussie} and a *smooch* too.
Don't know what Karradine is gonna say, but I'd say have him find another place for his diving holiday!

706 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:40:06pm

re: #702 Dustyvet

An Aussie story for you...:)

The castaway dog who swam SIX miles through shark-infested waters, then survived FOUR months on a desert island

[Link: rpc.blogrolling.com...]

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

707 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:40:24pm

re: #697 realwest

Well he authorized what went down. And after authorizing it he stayed the hell out of the way. And as CiC that was his call - I give him props on this one issue.

he authorized *nothing*... the Navy was operating under established ROE that's been around for years. if anything, Ear Leader had them on "weapons tight" when home boy jumped over the side, which is why he was recaptured.

he's been a zero all his life, and today was no different.

708 scrubjay  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:40:32pm

What is there to praise? Obama only let the military do their job. I would have used a sub to drag that lifeboat under water right away and the have seals ready to pick up our captain.

709 swamprat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:40:36pm

re: #699 Karridine

Must sleep. Very glad you are well. Stay whole.

710 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:40:51pm

re: #697 realwest

Well he authorized what went down. And after authorizing it he stayed the hell out of the way. And as CiC that was his call - I give him props on this one issue.

Seems he has a pretty hawkish crew on Nat Sec. I'm glad. I have to give him credit because the right things seem to be getting done. Inconsistent with the general tone though because most other moves are disastrous.

711 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:41:14pm

re: #700 swamprat

Half done then. No need to protect individual ships. Just guard the corridor...Say... maybe some sort of International consortium could take on this responsibility.

To what group of nations might this jurisdiction fall?
Maybe some sort of trade group?

Say! Maybe the UNITED NATIONS MIGHT TAKE TIME OFF FROM THEIR BUSY SCHEDULE OF CONDEMNING ISRAEL, AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE!

i want some of whatever it is you're taking/smoking/drinking......

/is it expensive?

712 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:41:30pm

re: #698 JohnAdams
Hey JohnAdams - GREAT AVATAR! When did you start using it?!

713 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:42:13pm
714 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:42:20pm

re: #675 avanti

Hey, just because I'm not for starting a war at the drop of a hat, does not mean I'll let some third world ass holes mess with our citizens without speaking out. Not all liberals are friggin Jimmy Carter ya know.

true: some of you are worse.

715 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:42:41pm

re: #690 Gus 802

It's a good thing that the polar bears didn't give that stupid lady a choice between being mauled to death or having sex with them....

716 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:42:46pm

re: #686 JohnAdams

Late to the game...how much credit does Obama get for this sea rescue?

I tend to agree with those who say he get's credit for "doing his fucking job right". IOW, doing the job he was hired to do.

717 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:43:05pm

re: #684 Dustyvet

I have a friend who still has a bad case of Knut-itus...Knut has ceased to be a cute wee cub.

There really is nothing cuter than a baby polar bear. If they did not exist, Steiff would have been forced to invent them. And watching PBs with their young is wonderful. And you have got to respect an overengineered killing machine that can kill a Beluga whale by itself for brunch.

I really love polar bears. I'm just not under the impression that polar bears think of me as much besides a possible threat to the baby, or a potential snack.

718 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:43:06pm

re: #700 swamprat

Good luck. UN can't vote to take a piss.

719 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:44:09pm

re: #715 Macker

It's a good thing that the polar bears didn't give that stupid lady a choice between being mauled to death or having sex with them....

Could have been worse. They were going for her but they took orders and responded well to the zoo staff.

720 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:44:50pm

re: #718 JohnAdams

Good luck. UN can't vote to take a piss.

UN couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery

721 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:44:52pm

re: #710 JohnAdams

Seems he has a pretty hawkish crew on Nat Sec. I'm glad. I have to give him credit because the right things seem to be getting done. Inconsistent with the general tone though because most other moves are disastrous.

are we talking about the same national security team that Ear Leader has chosen? you know, the one where some fool said that "Winne the Pooh" was a good book to base your policy on?

/f'ing crackheads, one and all, from the SecState on down.

722 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:45:04pm

re: #700 swamprat

Say! Maybe the UNITED NATIONS MIGHT TAKE TIME OFF FROM THEIR BUSY SCHEDULE OF CONDEMNING ISRAEL, AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE!

Want to help start a petition drive to have them re-locate to Tehran?

/ I would love to be able to use this to start tearing it down, in some way, in honor of St. Pancake.

723 aussiemagpie  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:45:26pm

re: #698 JohnAdams

I think coups in Thailand are fairly routine and velvet. I was there several years back and a coup took place. My family was calling all frantic, and I did not even know anything went down.

Thanks, I remember reading somewhere that Thailand was Number 1 country for coups

724 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:45:38pm

re: #708 scrubjay Say,

I would have used a sub to drag that lifeboat under water right away and the have seals ready to pick up our captain.

have you ever considered a career in writing screenplays for movies or anything like that?

725 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:45:41pm

re: #718 JohnAdams

Good luck. UN can't vote to take a piss.

we should tell them to take the piss.

726 Pietr  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:45:42pm

re: #674 realwest

Well thank you Pietr - just extends my birthday feelings one more day!

Maybe I should start a sign up sheet then, get 363 more lizards to keep wishing you a belated Happy B'day until next April 11th, Heh Heh....:>))

727 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:46:22pm

re: #712 realwest

Thanks, real. I change 'em up. I'm still pissing my pants from the first RP concert film, which probably took place 25 years ago!

728 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:47:12pm

re: #726 Pietr

Maybe I should start a sign up sheet then, get 363 more lizards to keep wishing you a belated Happy B'day until next April 11th, Heh Heh....:>))

sign me up... i'll do it on 13 May.

729 aussiemagpie  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:47:48pm

re: #699 Karridine

Pee Pee Island... they don't use ph as f here... shouldn't use ph at all...

Red Shirt... the Yellows are widely loathed... but come! Should (BIG IF-WORD here) SHOULD be mellow...

I'll tell him to pack the red shirt then :-)

So good to see you, as you know Thailand is a very popular holiday destination for Aussies, so it's a bit of a worry

730 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:47:58pm

re: #719 Gus 802

Could have been worse. They were going for her but they took orders and responded well to the zoo staff.

Probably relieved once they realized that someone was going to remove her.

731 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:48:07pm

re: #727 JohnAdams

Thanks, real. I change 'em up. I'm still pissing my pants from the first RP concert film, which probably took place 25 years ago!

there's a Ron Paul concert film?

732 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:48:35pm

re: #721 redc1c4

are we talking about the same national security team that Ear Leader has chosen? you know, the one where some fool said that "Winne the Pooh" was a good book to base your policy on?

/f'ing crackheads, one and all, from the SecState on down.

;~) trying to stay positive, my man. It is a chore!

733 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:48:36pm

re: #700 swamprat

Half done then. No need to protect individual ships. Just guard the corridor...Say... maybe some sort of International consortium could take on this responsibility.

To what group of nations might this jurisdiction fall?
Maybe some sort of trade group?

Say! Maybe the UNITED NATIONS MIGHT TAKE TIME OFF FROM THEIR BUSY SCHEDULE OF CONDEMNING ISRAEL, AND ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE!

Damn. I was trying to go to bed. But just out of curiosity, what the hell are you smoking?

734 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:49:19pm

re: #731 redc1c4

Please let it be The Last Waltz.

735 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:49:27pm

re: #731 redc1c4

there's a Ron Paul concert film?

Does this count?

736 aussiemagpie  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:49:35pm

re: #702 Dustyvet

An Aussie story for you...:)

The castaway dog who swam SIX miles through shark-infested waters, then survived FOUR months on a desert island

[Link: rpc.blogrolling.com...]

Hello DV! That is such a wonderful story :-)

737 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:49:44pm

re: #723 aussiemagpie

Thanks, I remember reading somewhere that Thailand was Number 1 country for coups

Most beautiful people I've ever encountered on earth. He should go, but keep his wits about him.

738 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:49:56pm

re: #727 JohnAdams
Ah my fav was Live On the Sunset Strip. Maybe THE comedic genius of our time (though I could argue Billy Crystal or Robin Williams, too!).

739 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:50:08pm

re: #730 SanFranciscoZionist

Probably relieved once they realized that someone was going to remove her.

Yeah, and that she wasn't the snack of the day. You ever see that video of another woman that got to close to the polar bear enclosure and one of the polar bears just clamps onto her?

740 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:50:22pm

re: #732 JohnAdams

;~) trying to stay positive, my man. It is a chore!

i stay objective...... likely because of all my years as a junior enlisted. blowing smoke up my own ass did no good, and there was nobody around to bullshit my way out of the crap i was in.

741 IslandLibertarian  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:50:27pm
742 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:51:06pm

re: #734 jaunte

Please let it be The Last Waltz.

You mean by Engelbert Humperdinck?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

743 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:51:13pm

re: #684 Dustyvet

I have a friend who still has a bad case of Knut-itus...Knut has ceased to be a cute wee cub.

Funny you should say that! ;)

744 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:51:18pm

re: #726 Pietr AND maybe you shouldn't - y'all just might want to re-think that one!
:)

745 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:51:25pm

re: #720 Dustyvet

UN couldn't organize a piss up in a brewery

Have you seen the UN regulations for a "proper piss-up"? Who the hell can piss six feet in the air, straight up, without getting themselves wet?

NSFW car dealer parody.

746 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:51:27pm

re: #741 IslandLibertarian

anyone else see this?
Somali Pirates Vow Revenge After Captain Rescued

Yep.

We have awoken a sleeping midget!

//

747 scrubjay  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:51:32pm
724 realwest 4/12/09 9:45:38 pm


It's not that far-fetched. A SEAL could swim out from the Bainbridge and tie a line from the lifeboat to a US sub underneath and then it would only have to pull to boat under water. Quick action is usually the key to successful rescues.

748 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:52:49pm

re: #740 redc1c4

You are one after my own heart! Do people like you? The older I get the more strange cautious concerned looks.

749 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:52:55pm

re: #739 Gus 802

Yeah, and that she wasn't the snack of the day. You ever see that video of another woman that got to close to the polar bear enclosure and one of the polar bears just clamps onto her?

No...note to self, just keep distance from the polar bears.

I wish we had a better polar bear enclosure at the SF Zoo. They are slowly getting better, but the polar bear enclosure is very 1950s, and sucks. I feel bad for the bear.

750 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:53:06pm

re: #745 Slumbering Behemoth

If I could give you 1,000 updings I would!

751 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:53:13pm

re: #747 scrubjay

Problem is the distance of the nearest sub from the site.

752 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:53:22pm

re: #741 IslandLibertarian

anyone else see this?
Somali Pirates Vow Revenge After Captain Rescued

Yup...

*spit*

/S

753 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:54:55pm

re: #728 redc1c4 Why 13 May?

754 aussiemagpie  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:55:26pm

re: #737 JohnAdams

Most beautiful people I've ever encountered on earth. He should go, but keep his wits about him.

Thanks - and I agree about Thai people, our very own lizard rightymouse is of Thai heritage and she's wonderful! My son knows her in real life as he was welcomed into her home last year on a trip to the US

755 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:55:31pm

re: #749 SanFranciscoZionist

No...note to self, just keep distance from the polar bears.

I wish we had a better polar bear enclosure at the SF Zoo. They are slowly getting better, but the polar bear enclosure is very 1950s, and sucks. I feel bad for the bear.

This is the video. Don't look if you're easily scared but there's no gore really. This dummy jumped two fences to get close to the bear enclosure.

756 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:55:55pm

re: #743 NY Nana

Funny you should say that! ;)


Knute needs a bath...:)

757 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:57:33pm

re: #754 aussiemagpie

Thanks - and I agree about Thai people, our very own lizard rightymouse is of Thai heritage and she's wonderful! My son knows her in real life as he was welcomed into her home last year on a trip to the US

Oh my God, they love to laugh. Lighthearted people. I love the Thais. I credit much of it to their Buddhism.

758 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:57:34pm

re: #756 Dustyvet

Knute needs a bath...:)

/So you smelled it, too? Ahhh, the power of YouTube!

759 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:58:31pm

re: #758 NY Nana

/So you smelled it, too? Ahhh, the power of YouTube!

ROFLMAO...:)

760 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:58:41pm

re: #748 JohnAdams


You are one after my own heart! Do people like you?

No one really likes Red, people just go along with him 'cuz he's got them hooked on his brand of fruitcup. Damned pusher!
////

761 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:58:57pm

Now I am out of here.

// If I am pissy in the morning you can blame swamprat for keeping me up.

Night

762 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:59:04pm

re: #741 IslandLibertarian

anyone else see this?
Somali Pirates Vow Revenge After Captain Rescued

Molon Labe.....

Millions Billions for defence, but not one cent for tribute.

fuck these mother fuckers. i'm in the retired reserve, and i'll volunteer to shuttle back and forth part of the year. i can't run miles and miles, but that's not needed on a ship. i can still hold a tight group with a GPMG or a 50 cal, and since i was Expert with a TOW, transitioning to a Javelin shouldn't be all that big a deal.

763 eddiespaghetti  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:59:14pm

re: #643 Gus 802

Ooh, good one.

764 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 9:59:43pm

re: #753 realwest

Why 13 May?

congruity...... %-)

765 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:00:25pm

re: #763 eddiespaghetti

Ooh, good one.

Yeah, sort of goes with a giant steel ship.

766 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:00:31pm

re: #719 Gus 802

Could have been worse. They were going for her but they took orders and responded well to the zoo staff.

Can't imagine what it's like for those magnificent bears watching all those potential meals come and go everyday.

The last time I went to our local zoo I visited the Congo forest exhibit. It's set up so you get a feel of what it is like to actually walk through the jungle. Of course barriers protect you from the animals but they are very close and I stopped to look at a beautiful black panther sitting on an old tree limb right over my head. That tail was a swingin' back an forth and the look in his eyes said, "So near yet so far ". You just knew what he was thinking.

767 jaunte  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:00:41pm

Goodnight all. One more HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO REALWEST!

768 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:01:50pm

re: #767 jaunte

Goodnight all. One more HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO REALWEST!

Have a good one.

769 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:02:14pm

re: #766 Bobblehead

Can't imagine what it's like for those magnificent bears watching all those potential meals come and go everyday.

The last time I went to our local zoo I visited the Congo forest exhibit. It's set up so you get a feel of what it is like to actually walk through the jungle. Of course barriers protect you from the animals but they are very close and I stopped to look at a beautiful black panther sitting on an old tree limb right over my head. That tail was a swingin' back an forth and the look in his eyes said, "So near yet so far ". You just knew what he was thinking.

i get the same thing with my "house lions"...... the predator is always just below the surface of them.

770 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:03:46pm

re: #766 Bobblehead

Can't imagine what it's like for those magnificent bears watching all those potential meals come and go everyday.

You know that scene in Madagascar, where Alex is surrounded by steaks with legs? Probably much like that.

771 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:03:56pm

re: #766 Bobblehead

Can't imagine what it's like for those magnificent bears watching all those potential meals come and go everyday.

The last time I went to our local zoo I visited the Congo forest exhibit. It's set up so you get a feel of what it is like to actually walk through the jungle. Of course barriers protect you from the animals but they are very close and I stopped to look at a beautiful black panther sitting on an old tree limb right over my head. That tail was a swingin' back an forth and the look in his eyes said, "So near yet so far ". You just knew what he was thinking.

The Denver zoo has plexiglass for the separation. I remember going to the San Francisco zoo and there was this massive male Lion behind bars just roaring away. It was so strong that it was vibrating the surroundings. Whew, I couldn't imagine being attacked by one of those. Black panthers or any other panthers are rather scary beasts as well. But that one lion was intense.

772 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:04:09pm

re: #766 Bobblehead

Can't imagine what it's like for those magnificent bears watching all those potential meals come and go everyday.

The last time I went to our local zoo I visited the Congo forest exhibit. It's set up so you get a feel of what it is like to actually walk through the jungle. Of course barriers protect you from the animals but they are very close and I stopped to look at a beautiful black panther sitting on an old tree limb right over my head. That tail was a swingin' back an forth and the look in his eyes said, "So near yet so far ". You just knew what he was thinking.

Image: funny-pictures-baby-panther-says-rawr.jpg

773 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:05:37pm

Here's one:

Makonnen the Lion Roaring

774 Miles Smit  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:05:42pm

Happy Easter! This is a great story, and I'm with you—when POTUS does right, we need to commend him, in the hope that it becomes a habit!

775 aussiemagpie  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:05:57pm

re: #757 JohnAdams

Oh my God, they love to laugh. Lighthearted people. I love the Thais. I credit much of it to their Buddhism.

My only visit to Thailand was a stopover in Bangkok on the way to Europe many years ago, maybe I'll go with my son to keep an eye on him! /

776 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:06:14pm

re: #755 Gus 802

This is the video. Don't look if you're easily scared but there's no gore really. This dummy jumped two fences to get close to the bear enclosure.

"It looked so innocent, I never expected it would be vicious."

Oh my.

777 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:07:21pm

re: #773 Gus 802

Here's one:

Makonnen the Lion Roaring


Damn hairballs...:)

778 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:07:31pm

re: #776 SanFranciscoZionist

"It looked so innocent, I never expected it would be vicious."

Oh my.

Yeah, just another cute, innocent little stuffed animal that weigh 1000 pounds.

779 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:07:37pm

re: #760 Slumbering Behemoth

No one really likes Red, people just go along with him 'cuz he's got them hooked on his brand of fruitcup. Damned pusher!
////

Sucker for fruitcup.

That's a damn fine avatar you got there, Behemoth!

780 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:08:05pm

re: #773 Gus 802

Here's one:

Makonnen the Lion Roaring


I'm the boss and don't you forget it!

781 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:08:15pm

re: #759 Dustyvet

;)

782 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:09:02pm

re: #750 Macker

It was the "Challenge Pissing", wasn't it?

783 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:09:12pm

Hope everyone had a nice day. Just returning from the family ritual.

FWIW on the piracy issue, it sounds like Obama did the right thing. That is, the situation did not drag on and on and on and the Navy ended it swiftly.

On an "all is well that ends well" basis, it was a good day and Obama deserves credit and praise for not insisting on a non-violent outcome.

However [here comes my quibble], as I read the accounts of what has happened and what is expected to happen to the lone remaining pirate, one thing is clear - this was treated exclusively as a criminal matter and the Navy was used as an aquatic SWAT team.

Is that a bad thing?

In my book that depends entirely on whether the pirates are affiliated with terror funding, frankly.

We have had multiple reports prior to this crisis that al-Shabab provides the operational and funding link between the piracy and Al Qaeda.

Here is a link at Huffpo from November on it. (lots of comments on that thread that people would probably like to take back now ...)

Point is, we may very well have just firmly and "successfully" re-established using our military as our foreign SWAT team for criminal treatment of terrorism. The reports I have read on Obama "twice approving" military action seems to only reinforce my assumption that the authorization was intended for the sole case where the Captain's life was immediately threatened. That makes for an ass covering authorization.

We won't know the precise nature of those authorizations for months or years to come, but you can google al-Shabab right now and find the MSM is manufacturing stories of "Al-Shabab and al Qaeda NOT linked" whereas the accepted line was the opposite up until a week ago.

This is why I posted "about time" this morning upon hearing the news - a true military authorization to end the matter would have been carried out on the day it was given. It would have been an offensive action at the time of our choosing - not a "they are about to kill the hostage - go in" operation that it reportedly was.

The Joint Chiefs would not have presented the president the option were it not ready to execute. An offensive alternative would have been offered. Had it been taken, we'd have been done with this 2 days ago.

This was a "don't let his blood stain my hands" authorization based on an imminent threat to the Captain. And it was a terror financing organization that was holding that Captain.

784 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:09:25pm

re: #780 Bobblehead

I'm the boss and don't you forget it!

They sure are. Tigers are right up there. I love to hear them though. All of that power in a mammal.

785 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:09:44pm

re: #778 Gus 802

Yeah, just another cute, innocent little stuffed animal that weigh 1000 pounds.

They are cute, and they are innocent. They just happen to also be predators.

786 slokat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:09:47pm

re: #764 redc1c4

also my son's birthday... fitting in it's on way!

787 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:10:33pm

re: #775 aussiemagpie

My only visit to Thailand was a stopover in Bangkok on the way to Europe many years ago, maybe I'll go with my son to keep an eye on him! /

Wouldn't be a bad idea. Plenty of trouble to be found for a young man!

788 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:11:26pm

I don't know whether this has been brought up or not, but it may clear things up a bit (or accomplish the opposite). It's from a NYT link a HotAir poster found:

The Defense Department twice sought Mr. Obama’s permission to use force to rescue Captain Phillips, most recently on Friday night, senior defense officials said. On Saturday morning, the president agreed, they said, if it appeared that the captain’s life was in imminent danger.

By Friday, with several warships within easy reach of the lifeboat, the negotiations had gone nowhere. Captain Phillips jumped into the sea, but was quickly recaptured. On Saturday, the pirates fired several shots at a small boat that had approached from the Bainbridge.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

A couple of things in there I didn't know about.

789 slokat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:11:34pm

re: #786 slokat

also my son's birthday... fitting in it's own way!

790 mikeymom  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:11:51pm

re: #773 Gus 802

that is really sad--sounds like my my mikey when he is throwing up a hairball

791 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:12:01pm

re: #785 SanFranciscoZionist

They are cute, and they are innocent. They just happen to also be predators.

With large canine teeth and claws to match. I don't see how the zoo workers can do it. I'd be scared out of my wits.

792 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:13:43pm

re: #767 jaunte Good night juante - you DO know that my birthday was Saturday and it's now Monday, Eastern?!
Thanks anyway!

793 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:14:03pm

A couple of zoologists decided to give a lion a cell phone in order to keep track of his whereabouts. Unfortunately, whenever they tried to call, the lion was busy!

794 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:14:18pm

re: #790 mikeymom

that is really sad--sounds like my my mikey when he is throwing up a hairball

I always thought that was the cat upchuck sound instead. Lions must do that too. That would be something. Lookout for the lion hair ball!

795 mikeymom  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:15:19pm

re: #792 realwest
i missed saying it then--soooo- belated HAPPY B_DAY real! XXXOOOXXX!

796 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:15:21pm

re: #779 JohnAdams

Thanks. I picked it shortly after I registered here and Charles implemented the avatar thingy. I wish I could say I 'shopped it myself, but I found it somewhere on the intertoobs. It was a toss up between that and this.

797 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:15:21pm

re: #783 karmic_inquisitor

I think you're onto something. See the NYT link in my #788.

Those writing the news notoriously struggle reporting military matters, because they know so little about them. I honestly wonder if any of them fully understand what happened yet.

798 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:15:30pm

re: #784 Gus 802

They sure are. Tigers are right up there. I love to hear them though. All of that power in a mammal.

I was lucky enough to see a beautiful tiger sleeping right next to the plexi glass barrier. You couldn't see much of his body because of a bush in front of him but the back paws were right against the barrier. Enormous back paws! Yikes.

799 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:15:43pm

re: #774 Miles Smit

Happy Easter! This is a great story, and I'm with you—when POTUS does right, we need to commend him, in the hope that it becomes a habit!

except for the small, minor, detail that he did nothing to accomplish this.

800 aussiemagpie  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:16:14pm

re: #787 JohnAdams

Wouldn't be a bad idea. Plenty of trouble to be found for a young man!

I'm sure he would just love to have his Mum there! I might just give him a call right now to tell him the good news ....

Diving, drinking....can't wait :-)

801 Macker  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:16:47pm

re: #754 aussiemagpie

re: #757 JohnAdams

I wrote a Next Chapter for a Buddhist epic for a college capstone course way back in 1996....

802 Bobblehead  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:16:53pm

re: #791 Gus 802

With large canine teeth and claws to match. I don't see how the zoo workers can do it. I'd be scared out of my wits.

Good training and a healthy dose of respect.

803 Pietr  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:17:08pm

LNDT is here------------------------------------------>

Time to swim upthread, I guess.....

804 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:17:20pm

re: #798 Bobblehead

I was lucky enough to see a beautiful tiger sleeping right next to the plexi glass barrier. You couldn't see much of his body because of a bush in front of him but the back paws were right against the barrier. Enormous back paws! Yikes.

I think the momentum would be enough to know you over. Just one tap from the giant paw and you fall to the side.

805 Caton  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:17:25pm

re: #791 Gus 802

With large canine teeth and claws to match. I don't see how the zoo workers can do it. I'd be scared out of my wits.

I guess you won't visit Wat Pha Luang Ta Bua, then.

806 realwest  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:17:31pm

Well you all I gotta get some sleep! I hope everyone has a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

Good night, All.

807 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:18:11pm

Six ways to catch a lion:

1. Newton's Method:
Let, the lion catch you. For every action there is equal and opposite reaction. Implies you caught lion

2. Einstein Method:
Run in the direction opposite to that of the lion. Due to higher relative velocity, the lion will also run faster and will get tired soon. Now you can trap it easily.

3. Schrodinger Method:
At any given moment, there is a positive probability that lion to be in the cage. So set the trap, sit down and wait.

4. Inverse Transformation Method:
We place a spherical cage in the forest and enter it. Perform an inverse transformation with respect to lion. Lion is in and we are out.

5. Thermodynamic Procedure:
We construct a semi-permeable membrane which allows everything to pass it except lions. Then sweep the entire forest with it.

6. Integration Differential Method:
Integrate the forest over the entire area. The lion is some where in the result. So differentiate the result PARTIALLY w.r.t lion to trace out the lion.

808 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:18:20pm

re: #806 realwest

Well you all I gotta get some sleep! I hope everyone has a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

Good night, All.

Good night RW.

809 scrubjay  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:18:21pm
751 jaunte 4/12/09 9:53:13 pm


We have subs all over the place. I would be surprised if we didn't have at least one operating in the gulf area, since it is so close to Iraq.

810 mikeymom  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:18:29pm

re: #794 Gus 802

I always thought that was the cat upchuck sound instead. Lions must do that too. That would be something. Lookout for the lion hair ball!

my mikey is a 2o lb maine coon. i once found ahairball behind a piece of furniture--it was all dried out--but--was at least 8-9 inches long--1 inch thick-- i was gonna auction it on ebay as worlds biggest hairball! it was amazing! (shows how often i move furniture to clean behind!_

811 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:18:34pm

re: #796 Slumbering Behemoth

Thanks. I picked it shortly after I registered here and Charles implemented the avatar thingy. I wish I could say I 'shopped it myself, but I found it somewhere on the intertoobs. It was a toss up between that and this.

Nice. My kid loves the "your Mom went to college" line from Napoleon Dynamite. Maybe I'll send that to her.

812 aussiemagpie  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:19:29pm

re: #801 Macker

re: #757 JohnAdams

I wrote a Next Chapter for a Buddhist epic for a college capstone course way back in 1996....

Hello Macker! What's a next Chapter though? *dumb question* :-)

813 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:20:07pm

re: #810 mikeymom

my mikey is a 2o lb maine coon. i once found ahairball behind a piece of furniture--it was all dried out--but--was at least 8-9 inches long--1 inch thick-- i was gonna auction it on ebay as worlds biggest hairball! it was amazing! (shows how often i move furniture to clean behind!_

Wow, that's a big hairball. I've seen the petrified ones before. Usually behind or under furniture. Don't have cats now.

814 JohnAdams  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:20:09pm

re: #798 Bobblehead

The most majestic creature I've ever had the pleasure of pondering. Power and beauty. Wow.

815 aussiemagpie  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:20:32pm

re: #806 realwest

Well you all I gotta get some sleep! I hope everyone has a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

Good night, All.

*Smooch* and goodnight, see you in a few hours then!

816 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:21:00pm

re: #805 Caton

I guess you won't visit Wat Pha Luang Ta Bua, then.

Probably not. I'll just watch.

817 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:22:04pm

re: #798 Bobblehead

I was lucky enough to see a beautiful tiger sleeping right next to the plexi glass barrier. You couldn't see much of his body because of a bush in front of him but the back paws were right against the barrier. Enormous back paws! Yikes.

One of my middle school students, who was Nepali, told me a story that her grandfather had told her. He'd gone hunting with a friend, and they were in the jungle, around their fire, late at night, when a tiger came out of the trees and stood and looked at them. Then it walked away.

After a cold and uncomfortable night spent in a tree, they made their way home after daybreak. He said it was unbelievably beautiful, and he'd never been so afraid in his life.

818 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:23:14pm

re: #797 capitalist piglet

I think you're onto something. See the NYT link in my #788.

Those writing the news notoriously struggle reporting military matters, because they know so little about them. I honestly wonder if any of them fully understand what happened yet.

That is interesting that they reported "life in imminent danger". I had simply infered that was the nature of the authorizations from the other more vague reports I had read (NYT isn't my first stop anymore).

This was handled precisely the same way that the cops handle a bank robbery gone bad ending in a hostage crisis.

Folks are giving Obama props for being militarily savy or bold here when he clearly isn't. He just isn't situationaly stupid.

But strategically, this wasn't the way to play this - force should have been used when we chose. Clearly, we had the capacity to deliver the "pink mist" head shots earlier in the game. The extra time only created more opportunities for the Pirates and nothing in return for us except a smarter and more aggressive al qaeda next time around.

819 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:24:48pm

re: #741 IslandLibertarian

anyone else see this?
Somali Pirates Vow Revenge After Captain Rescued

I dig this editorial comment in a "news" story:


The rescue dealt a blow to pirates who regularly seize passing ships and hold them captive until multimillion dollar ransoms are paid. But it is unlikely to help quell the region's growing pirate threat, which has turned the Gulf of Aden and the waterways along Somalia's coast into some of the most dangerous shipping lanes on the planet.

"unlikely to help quell" ... uh, maybe, maybe not, but that's your *opinion" AP dude.

820 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:24:51pm

re: #748 JohnAdams

You are one after my own heart! Do people like you? The older I get the more strange cautious concerned looks.

no one likes me, not even myself, but then again, this isn't a popularity contest......we were all put here to suffer and die needlessly. i simply intend to go down fighting, and take as many of them with me as i can.

my personal avatars, among others, are Porkey Pine from "Pogo", Eeyore and Rat from "Pearls before Swine".

821 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:24:54pm

re: #729 aussiemagpie

Aussie, UPDATE: Noon BKK

The Taksin-supporting, free-market, techno-enriched Red-Shirts (deprived of their government TWICE by the Yellow Shirts) have blockaded almost every major city in Thailand, so no normal traffic through town...

There is a tanker-truck abandoned at a critical pinch-point downtown BKK, which COULD be detonated to great effect, and efforts underway to evacuate the area.

Thousands of soldiers now sweeping through sections of BKK...

Dominating the TV...

More as it happens... nothing much REALLY violent yet, no pitched battles

822 Karridine  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:26:39pm

Thai TV showing foreign news carrion shooting the burning rubber tires for greatest impact, 'from the active war zone in Bangkok...'

Gurf!

823 mikeymom  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:28:36pm

when the denver zoo opened their new primate exhibit-i was lucky enough to get up to the corner of the plexiglass where the male gorilla was sitting-i sat down-was 3 inches away from him--didnt look directly at him of course, but put my hand right next to glass--he reached out and touched the glass--i will never forget it

824 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:29:06pm

re: #786 slokat

also my son's birthday... fitting in it's on way!

the po' chile........ %-)

825 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:30:01pm

re: #823 mikeymom

when the denver zoo opened their new primate exhibit-i was lucky enough to get up to the corner of the plexiglass where the male gorilla was sitting-i sat down-was 3 inches away from him--didnt look directly at him of course, but put my hand right next to glass--he reached out and touched the glass--i will never forget it

Nice. Denver has a really nice zoo. I should go there more often.

826 redc1c4  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:31:10pm

re: #796 Slumbering Behemoth

Thanks. I picked it shortly after I registered here and Charles implemented the avatar thingy. I wish I could say I 'shopped it myself, but I found it somewhere on the intertoobs. It was a toss up between that and this.

saved...... %-)

827 mikeymom  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:31:30pm

re: #825 Gus 802

Nice. Denver has a really nice zoo. I should go there more often.

where are you gus? longmont here--and yes--i want to go to the zoo more often--love the new tiger exhibit

828 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:32:10pm

re: #827 mikeymom

where are you gus? longmont here--and yes--i want to go to the zoo more often--love the new tiger exhibit

Denver. Not that far from the zoo.

829 mikeymom  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:34:22pm

great! was talking to walter about having a lizard meet-up here in the next few months--my hubby is retiring and will cook--will let you know if you are interested!

830 Bob Dillon  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:34:26pm

re: #749 SanFranciscoZionist

No...note to self, just keep distance from the polar bears.

I wish we had a better polar bear enclosure at the SF Zoo. They are slowly getting better, but the polar bear enclosure is very 1950s, and sucks. I feel bad for the bear.

Binky vs Aussie tourist @ Anchorage Zoo.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

831 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:35:41pm

re: #829 mikeymom

great! was talking to walter about having a lizard meet-up here in the next few months--my hubby is retiring and will cook--will let you know if you are interested!

OK, keep me posted. I'll bring it up with Walter perhaps along the way. Been thinking about seeing one of his plays.

832 slokat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:36:39pm

re: #820 redc1c4


my personal avatars, among others, Rat from "Pearls before Swine".

Too skinny... right temperament, but too skinny. ;)

833 mikeymom  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:37:36pm

re: #831 Gus 802

OK, keep me posted. I'll bring it up with Walter perhaps along the way. Been thinking about seeing one of his plays.

the only prob i can see is walter's weekends are busy--dont know when to plan a meet-up--but it would be cool--have a big deck and yard

834 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:39:14pm

re: #833 mikeymom

the only prob i can see is walter's weekends are busy--dont know when to plan a meet-up--but it would be cool--have a big deck and yard

Sounds nice. My schedule is generally open since I do freelance work.

835 mikeymom  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:40:31pm

re: #834 Gus 802

Sounds nice. My schedule is generally open since I do freelance work.

ok--will send a general shout out--maybe in june!

836 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:41:16pm

re: #818 karmic_inquisitor

That is interesting that they reported "life in imminent danger". I had simply infered that was the nature of the authorizations from the other more vague reports I had read (NYT isn't my first stop anymore).

This was handled precisely the same way that the cops handle a bank robbery gone bad ending in a hostage crisis.

Folks are giving Obama props for being militarily savy or bold here when he clearly isn't. He just isn't situationaly stupid.

But strategically, this wasn't the way to play this - force should have been used when we chose. Clearly, we had the capacity to deliver the "pink mist" head shots earlier in the game. The extra time only created more opportunities for the Pirates and nothing in return for us except a smarter and more aggressive al qaeda next time around.

The way the media is covering this, it leaves the impression that twice, Obama signed off on what the military wanted to do and ultimately did. The NYT article doesn't seem to characterize it quite the same way. It sounds, to me at least, like they had to hounded Obama a little bit, and he finally relented but only under very specific parameters.

And I don't know where I was, but I didn't know that a small boat had been fired upon by the pirates on Saturday...apparently it didn't return fire.

837 Gus  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:42:26pm

re: #835 mikeymom

ok--will send a general shout out--maybe in june!

OK, I'll keep an "ear" open.

838 slokat  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:43:04pm

re: #824 redc1c4

Hhmmm, apparently it's the day to walk around at night in bare feet & throw black beans while telling larvae to leave your house alone... or else all saints day.

Depends where in history you feel attached?

839 Wendya  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:43:16pm

re: #70 Sosigado

He did what he was supposed to do, as CinC.

Agreed... and I expect nothing less of our President regardless of political affiliation.

840 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 10:44:49pm

re: #811 JohnAdams

re: #826 redc1c4

I though it was pretty funny. 'bout wet myself with laughter when I saw it. Comes from the same feller that does (used to do?) the "Gone With The Blastwave" webcomic.

841 boxman  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 11:14:31pm

On the moving theme, a little something I put together a while back:

Moving Humor

842 tyree  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 11:15:40pm

Now that President Bush is out of offices, Hollywood will be making action films about the rescue starting.... yesterday!

843 OnTheRightSide  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 11:30:09pm

Could someone enlighten me on what President Obama did that was so good? Seemed to me that the navy just handled the whole thing and the captain who took action. Am I missing something?

844 stevieray  Sun, Apr 12, 2009 11:38:41pm

test

845 victor_yugo  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 12:14:21am

My take:

A blind man throwing axes wildly, given enough time, can still hit a tree trunk.

846 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 12:22:19am
Clearly, we had the capacity to deliver the "pink mist" head shots earlier in the game.

Clearly not. You have to be able to see your target in order to shoot it, something which hadn't occurred prior.

The moment the opportunity arose, it was taken; it's 28 feet long.

Here's a picture of the type of lifeboat they were in: Image: 200428f010_boat_0412.jpg

847 Old Engineer  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 12:27:00am

Here I am, up late again. If it's not too late, Happy Easter to All.
Re: Piracy: We know now only what we are being told by sources friendly to Obama. The Navy people are muted except when they clear what they say first. The story may be exactly as it is being represented. But it also may not be. If not, someday we will know the true facts. I do not doubt the three pirates had their bodies blown apart by snipers, but I doubt the ship caried three expert marksmen, shooters known not to fail, and weapons trusted to make the shot. My guess is that some of the time lag resulted from the shooters and their equipment being moved aboard the ship where the shots were made. My guess is that they had at least two, more probably three snipers, targeted on each pirate, and that a whistle, horn, bell, your choice, was sounded when an appointed observer saw the three pirates were all in the clear for a shot. The story that the shots were made only when the Captain's life was in peril when a pirate pointed a gun at the Captain sounds fishy to me, for that undoubtedly had been happening time and time again. After all, it sounds so cruel to just off three guys, but better if they are pointing a gun at the captive, maybe about to shoot him. My suspcion too is that Obama left a way out for himself in case the whole thing took a bad turn. Perhaps the instruction leaving the decision to someone aboard the ship as to when action would take place. Wrong time, Obama was not faulty. Right time, Obama still big hero, court martial guy making bad decision. I just don't trust Obama when truth is needed. I believe that after much hemming, hawing, and argument among his staff, Obama shuffled the affair over to the Navy where it should have been at the very first with pre-ordained instructions for such circumstances, and for this move he should be commended, but who, in his right mind, would not have done that anyway. Well, maybe not "ole Jimmy", the peanut vendor.
Anyway, God bless the Navy, the Captain, the Captain's wife and family, plus the snipers, their trusty weaponry, and all of you readers out there.
Old Engineer (once an Infantry Sharpshooter, always a rifleman)

848 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 12:37:27am

re: #707 redc1c4

he authorized *nothing*... the Navy was operating under established ROE that's been around for years. if anything, Ear Leader had them on "weapons tight" when home boy jumped over the side, which is why he was recaptured.

he's been a zero all his life, and today was no different.

What SROE are you referring to? The ones I'm familiar with pertain to conduct when confronting direct threats to the military (the Navy, in this case) and that involve enemy combatants as defined by the Geneva convention - in other words, wearing uniforms and serving in the armed forces of a hostile power. They also provide strict restrictions on exposing civilians to harm. In this case, the pirates are clearly not part of a military force, and posed no threat whatsoever to the Navy. Their hostage was an American citizen, not a member of the military, and the ship he commanded was operated as part of a private enterprise.

Last I heard, if you're in the military and are thinking about shooting at civilians for any reason, you damn well better seek approval from your superiors before opening fire or you're gonna find yourself in a whole world of hurt.

Naval patrols in the area to guard against piracy were authorized last year, and as far as I know they have no authority to use deadly force except in extremis, if they find themselves under direct attack. And even in that case, the SROE mandates a response proportional to the threat.

But if you know of an earlier order granting permission to fire on civilian targets in the region, please direct me to it.

849 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 12:46:37am

re: #312 Aviator

I understand that. Reports have said that the military went to Obama twice with what sounds as though the same order was reiterated. Makes mw suspect they were asking for permission to do something else and did not get it.

It could just as easily be explained by some paper shuffler in the CoC submitting the same request twice, or a more overt case of someone in the chain being an over zealous ass-coverer. Until there are actual facts, the reasons simply remain unknown.

As in all cases involving civilian deaths, there will be a massively detailed follow up investigation, simply as a matter of process. Someone might want to read through it when it's available to see if there's anything amiss. But for the moment, any conclusions are purely speculative.

850 SixDegrees  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 12:50:18am

re: #185 capitalist piglet

A little bit of saber (or whatever it is they rattle in Somalia) rattling from the publicly, at least, undaunted colleagues of those killed today:

This sort of thing plays well to the home crowd. As long as he's flapping his gums, he's got nothin'.

Even calling them "colleagues" is a bit over the top; theses are a large group of unaffiliated, independent gangs with no loyalty at all to one another.

But I'm sure it works the crowd back home. Maybe he can apply for a speechwriter's position a the White House.

851 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 1:08:13am
852 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 1:14:10am
853 jmcgachey  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 4:47:02am

As a retired Navy chief (25 years active) I was proud enough to burst when I heard the news. So let me get this straight...the military is the one element of our country that seems to be working at peak levels and they're the ones getting their budget axed. I suppose that makes sense in the Nobamanation.

854 tedzilla99  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 5:19:57am

If by "exactly right" you mean waiting 5 days and not saying a thing about it until it was over, and by first accounts [that have been surreptitiously edited] had to be asked twice to do the right thing, then yes. Perfect.

Exactly like Clinton - stay out of it until there's no way to avoid it, then take credit when it goes correctly...and have someone to blame when it goes badly.

855 FrogMarch  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 5:42:24am

I thought the military saved the captain? Did Obama have anything to do with it?

856 Joel  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 5:44:05am

We're back to the Carter/Clinton years where the FBI will be investigating the 'crime scene" and the DOJ will be issuing 'indictments'. For all his faults, GWB was a much greater patriot then Obambi will ever be.

857 FrogMarch  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 5:51:19am

re: #855 FrogMarch

I thought the military saved the captain? Did Obama have anything to do with it?

Sorry. I guess he finally gave the go ahead.

858 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 6:08:12am

re: #843 OnTheRightSide

Could someone enlighten me on what President Obama did that was so good? Seemed to me that the navy just handled the whole thing and the captain who took action. Am I missing something?

He didn't get in the way? The White House was quick to point out Obama ""personally approved" the operation, once it succeeded. I wonder if they would have been so quick to take credit if something went wrong and the operation failed?

859 boofar  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 6:13:20am

I agree with Charles. And I'll have to give Obama a few props. He has done a few things (more or less) correctly in his short term (granted, there were some major screw ups, like the continued bailouts and faux-outrage over the bonuses).

860 Joel  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 6:51:30am

re: #859 boofar

Obama had as much to do with the rescue of Capt. Phillips as the rooster has with the sun coming up every morning.
In fact I think that these wastes of humanity the press calls "Pirates" would have never dared gone after a U.S. flagged vessel while Bush was in office. They are testing America's resolve the way a toddler pushes their parents to see just how much they can get away with

861 Land Shark  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 7:13:07am

re: #858 Kenneth

You raise a very valid point. Still, the way it turned out, Obama signed the order and let the Navy do it's job. I think he did a great job in this instance. He could have not authorized force and he could have tried to micro manage the situation. I have to give him credit where it's due.

862 harpsicon  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 7:23:16am

Re: Somalia as a failed state, incredible poverty, etc. etc. -- maybe it ain't necessarily so! This article in The Freeman on page 38 [Link: www.thefreemanonline.org...] entitled "Somalia: Failed State, Economic Success?" points out that by many metrics Somalia, without a government, is actually doing better than a lot of Africa, with government! The author, while pointing out that this hardly makes it a libertarian paradise, shows how the rule of law (a big libertarian point) makes economics and regular life possible, at which point people go about improving their situations, leading to the better results than with government "helping" them, especially as this is usually done in Africa.

The traditional justice system is more about restitution (you steal one animal, you pay back two) than with retribution, but is widely respected, thus providing a solid basis for order and economic progress.

Piracy fits into this as a risky but better job, in the longstanding tradition of Muslim piracy noted in many posts on this thread. As the goal does seem to be economic rather than the implementation of strategic Islamic fundamentalism, the general lack of killings (and the new statements about how now we are the enemy since we killed them) make at least of kind of weird common sense in this context.

It also seems clear from this context that discouraging them with force would surely be the easiest way to achieve less piracy - take out the mother ships, port bases, etc. The guys working this field will no doubt be hissed off, but since they seem to be acting rationally (economics, not ideology) they will probably deploy their talents elsewhere when we make piracy something which doesn't pay.

863 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 8:00:37am

re: #861 Land Shark

True enough. The two good things Obama did with respect to the pirate incident are more about what he didn't do:

1. He didn't make a major public announcement on the kidnapping (that would have played into the pirates' hand).
2. He didn't micro-manage the Navy's rescue operation.

For that I give him credit. Pirates will think again before targeting a US flagged vessel.

864 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 8:28:33am

Obama sure as HELL did not pull a Jimmy Carter on us on this one.

Good on Obama.

865 justabill  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 8:34:28am

re: #228 Boxy_brown

Really trying to figure out what Obama actually did here.

Captain Phillips saved his ship...

The US Navy saved Phillips...

Obama picked out a dog...

Yes, but its a water dog. Probably has more naval experience than anyone else in the administration...

866 robdouth  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 8:46:10am

With all due respect to Charles I have to disagree. If the Navy did a good job right now, they could have done the same a couple days ago. I'm reminded of Vince Flynn's Transfer of Power where the VP is in charge while the President is ex-communicado, and the VP keeps hedging bets and refuses to make the tough choice. We waited far to long on this one, and unlike the British Royal Navy's handling of a similar episode, I feel this was a show of weakness that luckily for Obama didn't become a Carter-like hostage crisis scenario. So from me, good job Navy, for Obama, grow a set and make the call sooner. The Destroyer was towing the damn pirates for chrissakes.

867 robdouth  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 8:47:41am

re: #863 Kenneth

True enough. The two good things Obama did with respect to the pirate incident are more about what he didn't do:


For that I give him credit. Pirates will think again before targeting a US flagged vessel.

You are correct on those two points, but just because he didn't make a statement on it, he let it go until it was dominating the news cycle. He could have given the Navy carte blanche to take care of it day one and it would have been a blip in the news cycle, not a week-long drama.

868 hellosnackbar  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 8:55:15am

reAlbusteve,Sharmuta
Thanks for those videos(takes me back awhile)
Saw (and heard of course)the Beatles in 1962(3 Coins)in Manchester .Roll over Beethoven was then a part of their repertoire and very well received it was too.
"Took her home and had a nineteen break" mmmh heroic stuff viagra not being then invented.
If you like rock 'n roll anecdotes here's one from a few weeks ago:
There was a party for the Polo playing horsey set attended by Brian Moore(ex international rugby player for England)lawyer and now pithy
sports writer for the Telegraph.
Whilst wandering around the guests Moore saw David Gilmour (looking
like the local golf club captain)just beginning a conversation with one of the horsey set young ladies.
Eavesdropping Moore heard her ask the following:
"I say David what's your line of work?"(Gilmore with his very educated upper middle class accent would be indistinguishable from the rest of the partyers).
"Oh" said Gilmore "I play a guitar now and then"
"How fascinating" said the young lady.
"What standard have you reached?"
Moore quickly walked away chuckling; wondering if people like her lived in a parallel universe.

869 robdouth  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 9:17:10am

If this happens:

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

Then I will lead the party for Obama. If he takes the fight to them, I'll praise him up and down while at the same time openly wondering why the left is not bashing him for his 'pre-emptive' strikes...

870 88keyman  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 10:25:36am

Charles' latest sensibilities have him constantly lecturing conservatives that they are rabid boors who would "detest and mock everything President Obama does, on pain of excommunication." Actually, the likely instincts of those conservative boors are correct about the rescue of the Captain of the M.V. Maersk-Alabama from Somali pirates -- Obama was not a decisive leader who deserves credit but was, in fact, an impediment to the rescue. Read this account:

[Link: pajamasmedia.com...]

The Story of a Successful Rescue (and the Obama Adminstration’s Attempt to Claim Credit)

Posted By Jeff Emanuel On April 13, 2009

The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States, Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage’s life was in clear, extreme danger.

The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates — and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the commander in chief’s staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a “peaceful solution” would be acceptable.

After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on-scene commander decided he’d had enough. Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage’s life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer — unnamed in all media reports to date — decided the AK-47 one captor had leveled at Phillips’ back was a threat to the hostage’s life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.

Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Phillips was safe.

There is upside, downside, and spin-side to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday’s dramatic rescue of an American hostage.

Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and [1] declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president’s toughness and decisiveness.

Despite the Obama administration’s (and its sycophants’) attempt to spin yesterday’s success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort.

What should have been a standoff lasting only hours — as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location — became an embarrassing four-day-and-counting standoff between a rag-tag handful of criminals with rifles and a U.S. Navy warship....

However, instead of taking direct, decisive action against the rag-tag group of gunmen, the Obama administration dilly-dallied, dawdled, and eschewed any decisiveness whatsoever, even in the face of enemy fire, in hopes that the situation would somehow resolve itself without violence. Thus, the administration sent a clear message to all who would threaten U.S. interests abroad that the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue has no idea how to respond to such situations — and no real willingness to use military force to resolve them.

Any who think they weren’t watching every minute of this are guilty — at best — of greatly underestimating our enemies.

Like the crew of the Alabama, which took swift and decisive action to take back their own ship rather than wait for help from Washington that they knew could not be counted on, Captain Phillips took matters into his own hands for the second time in three days ...

871 favre4favre  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 11:04:06am

Why is it wrong to want Obamas policies to fail? I want socializm to fail, his uni health care to fail, and his cabon ponzi scheme to fail so why is that bad and why does charlie mock people for it? Is this the daily KOS? or are we allowed to have our own opinions?

872 robdouth  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 11:16:40am

re: #871 favre4favre

Why is it wrong to want Obamas policies to fail? I want socializm to fail, his uni health care to fail, and his cabon ponzi scheme to fail so why is that bad and why does charlie mock people for it? Is this the daily KOS? or are we allowed to have our own opinions?

This is an unfair characterization. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, Charles just disagrees with the idea of being reflexively anti-Obama. It's ironic you state that just after I and 88keyman are allowed to respectfully disagree with Charles.

I agree with Charles larger philosophy of not being the next group of idiots opposing everything from Obama like the left did from Bush. It becomes far to easy to write off the right wing as kooks that hate Obama when our problem is with his policies and not him as a person. You can't give them ammunition by saying you want him to fail. No matter the motives, that is not the narrative that will be played out in the media. Any failure can and will be blamed on what will be labeled a not so loyal opposition. The Republicans would fall further in standing and Obama will be given a second term just like Bush did, because the opposition will look anti-Obama and not Pro-something. Also comparing Charles to Kos is IMHO a bannable offense. Perhaps Charles is more forgiving.

873 gregb  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 11:28:05am

Re: #870

Let's give credit whores credit where credit's due. Actually, some on LGF have argued Obama is a megalomaniac--taking credit to improve his self-view of power, genius, and omnipotence is a sure sign.

Unless of course he really deserves the credit? You notice they've hedged the victory with the announcement that it'll cause future retaliation and violence.

Good job to the Navy.

Gregb

874 sevoguy  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 12:00:35pm

If the rescue was done during the Bush Presidency all the looney left would be creaming about violating the Somoli pirates human rights.

So, I'll be glad to give BHO a pass on this one or even a THATTA_BOY for it. I'll even go so far as to say the BHO is at least 1 step ahead of this mentor "jimmy Carter." But that is it.

875 RangerReject  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 2:25:31pm

I have to say I wholeheartedly concur. Allowing the US Military to protect our citizens without hobbling them is one positive thing "Bam" has done right.

876 jwing  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 3:23:09pm

I don't agree with the comment by Charles that President Obama did this pirate rescue op "just right". While I'm glad he allowed the Navy to take some action, the reported stipulation that they should only take action if the Captain's life is in imminent or immediate danger, is an very bad approach. This is a mealy-mouthed way of being a commander in chief. The right answer should have been to give an order to take out the pirates at their (the Navy's) earliest convenience, and the sooner the better. After all, the Captain during his entire captivity was in "imminent danger", so it's absurd to put that kind of caveat on the military. I'm sure the Navy officers had to sit their scratching their heads wondering, "how imminent, how immediate" does the danger have to be in order for us not to have our careers handed to us on a platter after the fact, when the Op is Monday-morning quarterbacked (especially if it doesn't go perfectly -- as it fortunately did)?

877 grahamski  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 5:09:39pm

It's debatable if the ZERO did anything right...Pajamas Media

878 twincitiesgirl  Mon, Apr 13, 2009 9:17:36pm
There is way too much mean-spiritedness in modern politics, and I for one am totally sick of it. And disappointed in those few LGF lizards who can’t find it in themselves to be gracious and say, “Well done.”


I posted this yesterday and got a down ding from Devil in baggy pants

re: #581 twincitiesgirl

My hat is off to the Navy Seals who, like Captain Phillips, are the real heroes of this story. Thank you Mr President for listening to your military advisors and ordering the perfect response at just the right time. Well done!

maybe it was the new avatar?


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