Tea Party Leader Supported Racist Image of Obama

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One of the announcers yesterday, Amy Kremer, National Coordinator of the Tea Party movement, is the person who saw nothing wrong with circulating a picture of Barack Obama as a witch doctor with a bone through his nose, and pledged to support the creep who did it: Tea Party Leader Backs Racist Doc.

This disgusting picture is posted here if you need a reminder.

UPDATE at 9/13/09 12:05:49 pm:

Imagine my surprise to discover that Amy Kremer is also a Birther: Southern Belle Politics: Constitutional Crisis Looming ~ Supreme Court Appeal!

(Hat tip: Thanos.)

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542 comments
1 rwmofo  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:32:49am

Facepalm.

2 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:34:29am

Ruh Roh.

Or, if nobody thinks this is a ruh roh, then Mega Ruh Rohs.

3 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:36:38am

Not only did they fail to distance themselves from him, they gave him a spot at the podium. Big Fail.

4 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:37:43am

The Republicans are so scarewed.
Fortunately for them, the Dems are double-screwed.

5 arethusa  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:38:44am

You know, over the past 8 years I couldn't stand the left because they demonized the right and the President unjustly, and thought that anything was OK, up to and including things like fantasy assassination films, so long as they got their say. I'm quickly reaching the same point with the right.

The real victim here is our democracy, as more and more people get turned off by the loons on both sides and don't participate in the process at all.

6 MJ  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:39:14am

That racist image of Obama as an African Witch doctor was popular:

"No one on the tea party express seems concerned with the vocal fringe of the crowds that come with offensive signs -- besides Nazi imagery, a poster of Obama as an African witch doctor has become popular -- or the numerous conspiracy theories that float around most tea parties".

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

The Nazi imagery is being pumped out courtesy of the ever irrational Lyndon LaRouche:

Lyndon LaRouche, Holocaust Imagery & the Health Care Debate

[Link: www.adl.org...]

7 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:39:24am

It would be interesting to go to a protest with a 'Why is there a ni**er in MY White House?!' sign and see if anyone complains; and how many agree.

8 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:40:54am

You knock me down for asking the question? Why?

9 Cathypop  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:41:56am

re: #8 Diego

That is disgusting!

10 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:42:28am

And what is bone-nose Obama??

11 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:42:52am

re: #8 Diego

You knock me down for asking the question? Why?

What would it prove and why would it be necessary, after you get past the sheer offensiveness of it.

12 arethusa  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:43:08am

re: #8 Diego

Some questions shouldn't be asked. Posts on this blog are often taken out of context on other blogs that love to go after LGF.

13 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:44:06am

re: #12 arethusa

Some questions shouldn't be asked. Posts on this blog are often taken out of context on other blogs that love to go after LGF.

And yeah, that too...

14 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:44:58am

My question was direct, and plainly wasn't in support of racism. Rather, it was pointing out the possibility, probability, of a racist element in the fringe which is vocal and marching the streets at these protests. Just as the witch doctor sign is.

It was a fair and reasonable question and I stand by it.

15 arethusa  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:47:25am

re: #14 Diego

That doesn't matter to someone who's determined to take the most innocent statements made here and twist the words to make this blog look bad.

16 driftwood  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:47:48am

Do we really need someone to point out that possibility? Most of us have IQ's over room temperature.

17 rwmofo  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:47:56am

re: #7 Diego

Maybe in the future you can spend a little more time thinking about the possible consequences of what you are about to post?

18 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:49:32am

re: #8 Diego

You knock me down for asking the question? Why?

Your suggestion is itself insulting and racially provocative, and your use of the word "interesting" implies a rather suspect academic detachment.

19 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:50:47am

re: #14 Diego

It was a fair and reasonable question and I stand by it.

It's about as reasonable and worthy an exercise as carrying a 'Bush on the Noose' toy at a World Can't Wait rally.

20 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:50:49am

And maybe I'll not put my posts through a 'what will an imbecile make of this' filter and post with an open mind as I always do. I do not for one minute think I have 3 knocks because my question would be 'misunderstood' by people off this site.

21 brookly red  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:51:21am

re: #14 Diego

My question was direct, and plainly wasn't in support of racism. Rather, it was pointing out the possibility, probability, of a racist element in the fringe which is vocal and marching the streets at these protests. Just as the witch doctor sign is.

It was a fair and reasonable question and I stand by it.

perhaps if you had said "an obviously racist sign" instead of giving a graphic example of one it would have gone down better, yes?

22 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:51:32am
23 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:52:17am

re: #22 Shiplord Kirel

That was exactly my point

24 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:52:46am

re: #7 Diego

I would hope anyone stupid enough to try your idea would have very good insurance.
And I find nothing interesting nor amusing about the idea.

25 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:53:50am

re: #24 DEZes

I think they'd go home with a sore back, but not for the reason you stipulate.

26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:53:52am

I may need a forehead pad for my desk.

27 arethusa  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:54:36am

re: #26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I may need a forehead pad for my desk.

Get me one too?

28 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:54:39am

re: #26 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I may need a forehead pad for my desk.

Get me one too!

29 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:54:55am

re: #27 arethusa

Get me one too?

Jinx. ;)

30 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:55:05am

re: #5 arethusa

You know, over the past 8 years I couldn't stand the left because they demonized the right and the President unjustly, and thought that anything was OK, up to and including things like fantasy assassination films, so long as they got their say. I'm quickly reaching the same point with the right.

The real victim here is our democracy, as more and more people get turned off by the loons on both sides and don't participate in the process at all.

I mentioned this before, but what they also don't understand (both sides) that they're demonizing the Office outside of the party affiliations.

Protest is fine. Protest is more than fine. It's good and necessary in our Republic. We are a democratically elected republic right? So while majority rules the vote, the minority still has a say. (You know, they'll kill ya in Iran for that.) So I'm ok with holding a sign, having a slogan, even if I don't agree, because then at least you're speaking to a policy, like taxes or healthcare whatever.

When you depict the POTUS as hitler, joker, white face, whatever, you silence discussion immediately. Particular the Nazi reference is bad because it diminishes the Holocaust. Everyone you hate is not hitler. I never liked the depiction of Bush as hitler either. It disgusted me. Even the devil with the horns, I saw some of those. It's the cheap way out to me. You have something to say, put it on a sign.

I really like the puppets tho.

31 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:55:15am

re: #20 Diego

And maybe I'll not put my posts through a 'what will an imbecile make of this' filter and post with an open mind as I always do. I do not for one minute think I have 3 knocks because my question would be 'misunderstood' by people off this site.

Your mind is open all right.

32 MJ  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:55:55am

Lost in the crush of news yesterday:

Prosecutor seeks 2 trials in Obama assassination plot

"Jackson, Tenn. — A Tennessee prosecutor says he will request separate trials for two men charged with plotting to kill President Barack Obama and dozens of other black people...

...Authorities describe the two as white supremacist skinheads...

[Link: www2.arkansasonline.com...]

33 Summer Seale  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:56:12am

re: #7 Diego

Actually, I don't think it's fair to downding that post.

It is a legitimate question and it would raise some interesting things at these protests, I think. Yes, I do believe that a fairly sizable portion of the anti-Obama factions are secretly harboring racist feelings. The fact that he has more death threats than any other president would definitely make a rational argument for this case.

While I think the proposed sign is offensive as hell, I also believe that the poster was not intending to agree with this at all. Yes, I do think it was legitimate to wonder about.

Sorry to be a dissenter on this but...I feel that he has cause to wonder about the impact of such a sign at one of these rallies. It's a fair question/proposal and experiment.

34 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:56:33am

re: #25 Diego

I think they'd go home with a sore back, but not for the reason you stipulate.

If you don't think someone would be moved to violence over such a sign, go try your idea and report back to us.

35 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:57:29am

re: #33 Summer

Thank you. Very much.

36 arethusa  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:57:49am

re: #29 DEZes

OK, that's 3 forehead pads...and the day is young! ;-)

37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:58:12am

Here's Joe's Cashing In...

STAND WITH JOE

Today, I need your help more than ever before. I've been under attack by the liberals for months and they’ve done everything they can to quiet my very vocal opposition to more government interference in Americans' lives. Now, it's gotten even worse, but I will not stop fighting against their policies that will only lead to more government interference, more spending, and higher deficits.

I should not have disrespected the President during his speech. But I am not sorry for fighting back against the dangerous policies of liberal Democrats. I will not back down.

Will you stand with me today and help me fight back against liberal attacks by signing up and making a donation to our cause?

Together, we will not be muzzled.

Thank you,
Joe Wilson
U.S. Representative

38 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:58:43am

re: #36 arethusa

OK, that's 3 forehead pads...and the day is young! ;-)

Maybe I should just lay on the couch. ;)

39 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:59:24am

re: #5 arethusa

You know, over the past 8 years I couldn't stand the left because they demonized the right and the President unjustly, and thought that anything was OK, up to and including things like fantasy assassination films, so long as they got their say. I'm quickly reaching the same point with the right.

The real victim here is our democracy, as more and more people get turned off by the loons on both sides and don't participate in the process at all.

It's also under assault through the spread of the notion, on both the Left and the Right, that if their side loses the resulting government is somehow illegitimate, or that anything short of lock-step agreement with their own principles is not the government.

This is a truly alarming development that threatens the future of the Republic. It goes far, far beyond sore-loserism and into the realm of anarchy and mob rule.

Whether the demonstrators like it or not, we live in a Democracy. As such, it is inevitable that you will sometimes find yourself on the losing side - roughly half the time, in fact, given our two-party system. If you don't, you no longer live in a Democracy - you live in some sort of monarchical or tyrannical form of government. But in a Democracy, sometimes you're the loser. Grow up and deal with it, or you really will find yourself living under an oppressive, illegitimate regime - one of your own making.

40 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:59:25am

Amy Kremer is also a SoCon values voter, a nirther, and WND axis blogger.

[Link: www.southernbellepolitics.com...]

41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:59:50am

And back to the game...

42 Summer Seale  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:01:23pm

re: #35 Diego

Thank you. Very much.

Well I thought your proposal has merit. Though I do understand why people reacted that way. I also had to step back a moment. But then again sometimes that's not a bad thing. =)

43 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:01:54pm

re: #33 Summer

Actually, I don't think it's fair to downding that post.

It is a legitimate question and it would raise some interesting things at these protests, I think. Yes, I do believe that a fairly sizable portion of the anti-Obama factions are secretly harboring racist feelings. The fact that he has more death threats than any other president would definitely make a rational argument for this case.

While I think the proposed sign is offensive as hell, I also believe that the poster was not intending to agree with this at all. Yes, I do think it was legitimate to wonder about.

Sorry to be a dissenter on this but...I feel that he has cause to wonder about the impact of such a sign at one of these rallies. It's a fair question/proposal and experiment.

Bullshit. The only question posed by such a suggested "experiment" is whether Diego would have his nuts fed to him before or after they were cut off.

44 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:02:06pm

re: #41 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

And back to the game...

Back to defrosting the freezer to fix the water leak... ;(

45 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:02:18pm

re: #33 Summer

How in the world is that a legitimate question? Do you think a person with such a sign would get within 100 yards of a rally? 500 yards? Give me a break. I know I'd snatch that sign and stomp it if I ever saw such a thing.

46 arethusa  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:03:15pm

re: #37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's starting to look like that outburst may (sadly) have been the best thing ever to happen to Joe Wilson's political career. Sign of the times, alas.

47 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:04:16pm

re: #45 marjoriemoon

How in the world is that a legitimate question? Do you think a person with such a sign would get within 100 yards of a rally? 500 yards? Give me a break. I know I'd snatch that sign and stomp it if I ever saw such a thing.

Charles obviously saw no merit in the post, because its gone.
Summer and Diego may wish to note that.

48 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:04:39pm

So, the question itself has become an experiment.

You all deny the racist element in your midst? You deny that the 'fringe' of conservatives and Republicans are, in fact, racist?

49 Summer Seale  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:05:00pm

re: #45 marjoriemoon

No I'm not sure that would be the case with some at those rallies. Honestly, from the crap I've seen so far, I think some people would give him a thumbs up. Either people aren't looking at the signs, or they appear to have zero problems with any insulting claims whatsoever about Obama.

I do think he'd get his ass kicked within 10 minutes, but I'm not sure sure that it would be instant and I'm also not so sure that others wouldn't instantly leap to his defense at this point.

Anyway, I didn't ask the question. I just thought it wasn't out of place as a remark on the character of many at these rallies.

50 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:05:14pm
51 arethusa  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:05:35pm

re: #48 Diego

So, the question itself has become an experiment.

You all deny the racist element in your midst? You deny that the 'fringe' of conservatives and Republicans are, in fact, racist?

Isn't that what the last few threads over the weekend have been about? We're well aware of it, believe me.

52 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:05:36pm

re: #45 marjoriemoon

How in the world is that a legitimate question? Do you think a person with such a sign would get within 100 yards of a rally? 500 yards? Give me a break. I know I'd snatch that sign and stomp it if I ever saw such a thing.

But that is exactly the challenge, isn't it. I believe that, too. Or at least I want to believe it. At rallies like this, however, I'd bet you there are at least pockets - certainly not everywhere - where no one would.

53 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:05:43pm

re: #47 DEZes

Good!

54 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:06:29pm

re: #48 Diego

No one has denied there are racists on the republicans side.

55 Locker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:06:42pm

Ok I had to look but man what are people thinking with that picture? My first thought is to snatch up anyone carrying a sign like that and drop them off in Newark with it glued to their chest. See if they don't think it's still racists about 15 minutes later.

56 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:06:59pm

Racist flounce!

57 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:07:01pm

And so why was the question I posed so 'offensive'?

58 rwmofo  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:07:01pm

Heh. The rain is clearly driving the trolls out from under the bridge.

59 Summersong  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:07:07pm

re: #50 richard mcenroe

Bye bye

60 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:07:35pm

re: #49 Summer

It certainly would be accepted in some places, say S. Carolina maybe? (grin) but I would be pretty shocked to see it in DC or any other metropolitan city.

61 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:07:44pm

re: #56 Charles

Racist flounce!

It got off too easy. ;)

62 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:07:54pm

re: #57 Diego

It was fucking stupid and juvenile. Drop it already.

63 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:08:57pm

re: #48 Diego

So, the question itself has become an experiment.

You all deny the racist element in your midst? You deny that the 'fringe' of conservatives and Republicans are, in fact, racist?

No it hasn't. Everybody knows there is a racist element associated with some of the rallies, how much is open to debate. I suppose you're going to say that was your intention. I don't believe it was.

64 arethusa  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:09:00pm

re: #57 Diego

And so why was the question I posed so 'offensive'?

See comments 9, 11, 12, 15, and 18 for starters.

65 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:09:46pm

Yep, that one's over the top. Nope, not gonna get worked up over it.

66 Locker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:09:57pm

Diego I didn't see it man but maybe just take a breath and chill a sec. If you really don't know what the issue is I'm sure someone will clue you.

67 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:10:23pm

re: #52 Coracle

But that is exactly the challenge, isn't it. I believe that, too. Or at least I want to believe it. At rallies like this, however, I'd bet you there are at least pockets - certainly not everywhere - where no one would.

I don't see what the challenge is. What does that sign say? Nothing. It's meant to provoke. You want to voice your racist agenda somewhere, go to your KKK rally on Sat night and scream all you like. You want to march down mainstreet with your sign, get a permit. Otherwise, except the consequences.

I know many Republicans who wouldn't tolerate it.

68 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:11:04pm

re: #62 Slumbering Behemoth

It was fucking stupid and juvenile. Drop it already.

Yeah, what the Behemoth said...

69 Summer Seale  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:11:15pm

BTW, again: I understand that it's totally offensive. I don't think Diego was endorsing it (duh). I think he was trying to make a point that many at the rallies probably do endorse that, and was wondering how open that might be at some point.

At least that's the way I understood it.

And yes, it's a fair question. Now, is it something which could be seriously misconstrued by others? Obviously the reaction here proves it is. But that wasn't the point of the comment (I think). I'm simply defending his right to wonder at the mentality (open or otherwise) of many at these rallies. From what I've seen so far, I think he is right to wonder.

BTW, in a sense it's not very different from the signs that some Protest Warriors held up during the Iraq War, seeing if there were any closet Anti-Semites in the crowds on the left. I remember that well, and it was a damned good "experiment" to out a lot of Anti-Semites. They had a case: many there were Anti-Semitic and they wanted to show it. Many also were idiots about history, and they wanted to show that too.

Though they did phrase things a touch differently. =)

70 Gella  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:11:25pm

do you really want racism?? ok perfect example from last night, US Open tennis women semifinals Williams vs Clisters. i hope you all heard what happen.
here is the video, if you haven't seen it yet

Youtube Video

IMHO its no racist, its fair, she knows the rules, she broke them twice that night, she should be penalized, what bugs me, a lot of people complain just because she is a black woman she got penalized, hello John McEnroe, Connors, Safin, etc... got penalized for less then she did.
71 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:11:38pm

re: #56 Charles

Updinged for bringing back 'flounce'. Well-played...

72 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:11:47pm

re: #54 DEZes

No one has denied there are racists on the republicans side.

The biggest problem is that much of the tea party movement isn't the mainstream of the R's... for the most part the mainstream R's aren't even paying attention at this point. The organizers are a consortium of JBS, Paulians, Constitution Party, Paleo libertarians who campaigned for Bob Barr and the like. They've combined with a lot of the Socons (focus on the familay, AFA, perkins-nexus folks) to try to perform a putsch during the power vacuum. I hope like all hell that they fail.

73 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:12:02pm

re: #68 BigPapa

High five!

74 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:12:25pm

re: #67 marjoriemoon

I do too.

75 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:12:37pm

re: #69 Summer

BTW, again: I understand that it's totally offensive. I don't think Diego was endorsing it (duh). I think he was trying to make a point that many at the rallies probably do endorse that, and was wondering how open that might be at some point.

At least that's the way I understood it.

And yes, it's a fair question. Now, is it something which could be seriously misconstrued by others? Obviously the reaction here proves it is. But that wasn't the point of the comment (I think). I'm simply defending his right to wonder at the mentality (open or otherwise) of many at these rallies. From what I've seen so far, I think he is right to wonder.

BTW, in a sense it's not very different from the signs that some Protest Warriors held up during the Iraq War, seeing if there were any closet Anti-Semites in the crowds on the left. I remember that well, and it was a damned good "experiment" to out a lot of Anti-Semites. They had a case: many there were Anti-Semitic and they wanted to show it. Many also were idiots about history, and they wanted to show that too.

Though they did phrase things a touch differently. =)


Again, thank you for understanding.

76 brookly red  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:12:41pm

re: #64 arethusa

See comments 9, 11, 12, 15, and 18 for starters.

/I think I need 1 more number to play lotto...

77 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:12:47pm

re: #57 Diego

And so why was the question I posed so 'offensive'?

Using that word anytime, anywhere, in any context is pretty offensive. It's a word that needs to be expunged.

78 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:13:33pm

re: #77 Thanos

Using that word anytime, anywhere, in any context is pretty offensive. It's a word that needs to be expunged.

Oh, so if only that word ceased to exist then there would be no more problem??

79 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:13:35pm

re: #77 Thanos

Using that word anytime, anywhere, in any context is pretty offensive. It's a word that needs to be expunged.

I wish he would receive information for a moment.

80 Locker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:15:00pm

re: #69 Summer

BTW, again: I understand that it's totally offensive. I don't think Diego was endorsing it (duh). I think he was trying to make a point that many at the rallies probably do endorse that, and was wondering how open that might be at some point.

At least that's the way I understood it.

And yes, it's a fair question. Now, is it something which could be seriously misconstrued by others? Obviously the reaction here proves it is. But that wasn't the point of the comment (I think). I'm simply defending his right to wonder at the mentality (open or otherwise) of many at these rallies. From what I've seen so far, I think he is right to wonder.

BTW, in a sense it's not very different from the signs that some Protest Warriors held up during the Iraq War, seeing if there were any closet Anti-Semites in the crowds on the left. I remember that well, and it was a damned good "experiment" to out a lot of Anti-Semites. They had a case: many there were Anti-Semitic and they wanted to show it. Many also were idiots about history, and they wanted to show that too.

Though they did phrase things a touch differently. =)

I completely respect your perspective here. Not saying folks should take things this way or that way but we should allow room for folks (regulars, not flamers or sockies) to adjust if they go out of bounds and not just pound them into the pavement.

I've thought of an Anti-Founce Intervention Squad. They ride in and talk the person off the ledge before they jump, and the rest of us let them work rather than screaming "JUMP! JUMP!".

81 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:15:16pm

re: #69 Summer

There would be people offended on the left and right buy that sign.
And rightfully so.

82 brookly red  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:15:19pm

re: #78 Diego

Oh, so if only that word ceased to exist then there would be no more problem??

does the phrase cutting your losses mean anything to you?

83 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:15:34pm

re: #78 Diego

Oh, so if only that word ceased to exist then there would be no more problem??

No, I'd like to see it stop being used. Putting the word on someone else's blog is disgusting. Period.

84 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:15:52pm

re: #69 Summer

BTW, again: I understand that it's totally offensive. I don't think Diego was endorsing it (duh). I think he was trying to make a point that many at the rallies probably do endorse that, and was wondering how open that might be at some point.

And yes, it's a fair question. Now, is it something which could be seriously misconstrued by others? Obviously the reaction here proves it is.

Nobody seems to have misconstrued it at all, I think you don't seem to understand that we get the meaning and reasoning behind it. The point is that there was little reasoning or meaning behind it.
 And, it is offensive whether or not you believe what the sign says or not.

Can we talk about creationism or nirth now?

85 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:16:09pm

re: #81 DEZes

There would be people offended on the left and right by that sign.
And rightfully so.


Buy = by.
pimf

86 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:16:42pm

I'm not going to delete that comment because this discussion wouldn't make much sense without having that for context, but please don't post that word here, even if it's ***'ed out. It's like a punch in the eye to decent people.

87 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:16:50pm

re: #83 Thanos

No, I'd like to see it stop being used. Putting the word on someone else's blog is disgusting. Period.

It was deleted, as it should have been, and yet the argument continues.

88 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:18:20pm

clicked on the link to southern belle. closed the window after reading, "hey there y'all."

89 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:18:53pm

Leaving the 'N' word out of a discussion about racism is like leaving Sons of the Confederate Veterans out of the discussion about Joe Wilson.

90 rwmofo  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:19:58pm

Crap. I'm going to go watch football.

91 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:20:33pm

I need a good adult beverage.

92 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:20:36pm

and now comes the supposedly justifiable retaliatory sleights of Southerners just to prove we aren't racists...

(shaking head for 1,982,765th time)

93 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:20:38pm

re: #81 DEZes

There would be people offended on the left and right buy that sign.
And rightfully so.

The experiment isn't whether folks on the left and the right that would be offended by the sign. We know that to be the case. The question is would out and out racism be tolerated in a place where folks have made many attempts at veiled racism.

The Bone through the nose is racist, but its one of those things where the sign bearer would say, "It's not racist, he was born there." To actually take the half a step more racist use the vile word and see if that is tollerated I think would be an experiment. Good or Bad.

94 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:20:42pm
95 brookly red  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:21:00pm

re: #90 rwmofo

Crap. I'm going to go watch football.

I'm gonna borrow some dogs to walk...

96 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:22:07pm

re: #95 brookly red

I'm gonna borrow some dogs to walk...

Looking for anything else to do.

97 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:23:00pm

Anyone think this sign is blatantly racist? I do.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

98 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:23:21pm

The n word is to blacks what the c word is to women and the k word is to Jews.

They are the three most offensive words in the English language.

99 brookly red  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:23:25pm

re: #96 debutaunt

Looking for anything else to do.

whatcha got in mind?

100 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:23:52pm

Notice that behind the racist sign is someone with another one of those "We came unarmed this time" signs.

It's a very clear threat of violence.

101 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:24:11pm

re: #93 TheQuis

Its not an experiment, I know full well what racism looks like.
In some places that sign would be cheered, no denying that.
Bigots will out themselves with little or no help.

102 Summer Seale  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:24:14pm

Well I stopped arguing this a few minutes ago. =)

103 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:24:16pm

The folks behind the 912DC rally were of course Freedomworks. There was also a Freedom Works PAC run by Dick Armey and their FEC filings can be seen here:

[Link: herndon1.sdrdc.com...]

Summary of Freedom Works PAC can be seen here:

[Link: www.opensecrets.org...]

Most importantly one can see the relationships between Freedomworks and others by clicking on the lnk below:

FreedomWorks - This FreedomWorks relationship map is interactive.

If you double click on a group or individual that contain a small plus sign on the upper right you can expand the relationships. One example being, Freedom Foundation Works Foundation which leads to Malcom S. Forbers, Jr.

104 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:24:29pm

re: #97 Charles

Yup. Confederate Flag at the same protest.

105 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:24:29pm

re: #99 brookly red

whatcha got in mind?

hmmm

106 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:24:29pm

re: #92 BigPapa

and now comes the supposedly justifiable retaliatory sleights of Southerners just to prove we aren't racists...

(shaking head for 1,982,765th time)


making fun of the south is justifiable. did you see the incredible poll numbers about how many southerners don't think Obama is a US citizen?

107 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:24:38pm

And now I'm being knocked for saying Sons Of Confederate Veterans and Joe Wilson? Why? He's a member and doesn't mind being a member. Has no problem with it and finds it respectable. And yet just saying the name here and I'm knocked for it?

108 midwestgak  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:24:43pm

re: #86 Charles

When I first read the comment with certain letters deleted, I assumed the word was nirther.

109 brookly red  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:26:04pm

re: #108 midwestgak

When I first read the comment with certain letters deleted, I assumed the word was nirther.

I just passed beer through my nose...

110 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:26:17pm

re: #98 Salamantis


They are the three most offensive words in the English language.

Yet how can we talk about racism at teaparties without using those words???

Intellectually Dishonest FallaSarcasm, By Bigpapa

111 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:26:18pm

re: #107 Diego

And now I'm being knocked for saying Sons Of Confederate Veterans and Joe Wilson? Why? He's a member and doesn't mind being a member. Has no problem with it and finds it respectable. And yet just saying the name here and I'm knocked for it?

Add all the clues to a pile and see what happens.

112 Locker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:26:24pm

re: #97 Charles

Anyone think this sign is blatantly racist? I do.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

That seems to be a birther sign to me. Just my opinion.

113 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:26:46pm

re: #104 Killgore Trout

Yup. Confederate Flag at the same protest.

Yikes! Notice how the word "the" is small -- essentially saying "bring back we people" in the context of the rebel flag.

114 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:26:50pm

re: #108 midwestgak

When I first read the comment with certain letters deleted, I assumed the word was nirther.

Bless your heart.
How you doing midwest?

115 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:27:23pm
116 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:27:53pm

re: #86 Charles

I'm not going to delete that comment because this discussion wouldn't make much sense without having that for context, but please don't post that word here, even if it's ***'ed out. It's like a punch in the eye to decent people.

Understood. I was trying to get to the 'base' of the situation, as I see it, in the 'fringe' of the Conservative and Republican Obama protests.

117 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:28:02pm

Maureen Dowd was in the chamber at Obama's speech, and is claiming that Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie, boy."

118 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:28:20pm

re: #97 Charles

Anyone think this sign is blatantly racist? I do.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Yes I agree - 100% racist...and anti-Kenyan to boot.

119 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:28:24pm

re: #114 DEZes

Bless your heart.
How you doing midwest?

Wait a minute! "Bless your heart?" What kind of thing is that to say?

120 brookly red  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:28:24pm

re: #107 Diego

And now I'm being knocked for saying Sons Of Confederate Veterans and Joe Wilson? Why? He's a member and doesn't mind being a member. Has no problem with it and finds it respectable. And yet just saying the name here and I'm knocked for it?

please stop...

121 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:28:45pm

re: #113 Gus 802

Also this one: When we smell the burning flesh from the ovens it will be too late

These people are dangerous loons.

122 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:28:51pm

re: #101 DEZes

Its not an experiment, I know full well what racism looks like.
In some places that sign would be cheered, no denying that.
Bigots will out themselves with little or no help.


I think it truly is an experiment. When on this thread we have people saying. They believe the person carrying the signed would get it taken away or "have his nuts fed to him" and others saying unfortunately the sign would get cheered. It does become an experiment. What would REALLY happen. I would want to see it at several different places in the crowd to see if it would pass or not. See if different segments react differently or not. I don't think there is a homogeneity to the crowd but I'd love to see which segments offer the most resistance and which segments offer the most contrician.

123 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:29:00pm

re: #117 Charles

Maureen Dowd was in the chamber at Obama's speech, and is claiming that Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie, boy."

Good lord.

124 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:29:22pm

re: #106 SpaceJesus

making fun of the south is justifiable. did you see the incredible poll numbers about how many southerners don't think Obama is a US citizen?

Of course I say the poll numbers. But I'm dying to hear you explain why it's justifiable to ridicule a culture, a people, a region of the country because of polling numbers. Maybe you shouldn't try.

But thanks for the down ding, that made my day. A mark of distinction I shall cherish for another 15 minutes...

125 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:29:33pm

re: #117 Charles

Maureen Dowd was in the chamber at Obama's speech, and is claiming that Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie, boy."

Did she claim he actually said that, or it was as if he did? I thought it was "as if" which is overblown racism concern trolling. If she's alleging he actually said it, then it should be verifiable listening to a replay.

126 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:29:35pm

re: #119 debutaunt

Wait a minute! "Bless your heart?" What kind of thing is that to say?

It was meant as a compliment, I liked the innocence of her statement.

127 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:29:35pm

re: #117 Charles

I kinda doubt that. Think there's any credibility to the claim?

128 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:29:43pm

re: #121 Killgore Trout

Also this one: When we smell the burning flesh from the ovens it will be too late

These people are dangerous loons.

I'll say. And this was promoted by a PAC leading up to the GOP in many places.

129 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:30:05pm

re: #122 TheQuis

I think it truly is an experiment. When on this thread we have people saying. They believe the person carrying the signed would get it taken away or "have his nuts fed to him" and others saying unfortunately the sign would get cheered. It does become an experiment. What would REALLY happen. I would want to see it at several different places in the crowd to see if it would pass or not. See if different segments react differently or not. I don't think there is a homogeneity to the crowd but I'd love to see which segments offer the most resistance and which segments offer the most contrician.

Go try it then.

130 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:30:28pm

re: #126 DEZes

It was meant as a compliment, I liked the innocence of her statement.

Me too!

131 Racer X  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:30:51pm

Assholes who use racism to protest Obama are tarring the rest of us who oppose Obama and could care less about his race.

Assholes who use racism as a defense for every fricking perceived slight give the other assholes ammunition.

I despise them both.

132 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:30:57pm

re: #117 Charles

Maureen Dowd was in the chamber at Obama's speech, and is claiming that Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie, boy."

Unlikely. If true, it would have been widely reported long before this, yet Dowd's comment is the very first I've heard on it.

She's probably worried that she's losing some of her audience to the fringers now coming into their own on the right. From what I've seen, they're interchangeable with those on the Left, and for all I know some of them may even be the same, attracted to mobs and mayhem independent of political orientation.

133 Noam Sayin'  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:31:05pm

re: #125 Coracle

Did she claim he actually said that, or it was as if he did? I thought it was "as if" which is overblown racism concern trolling. If she's alleging he actually said it, then it should be verifiable listening to a replay.

That's how I read it.

But, fair or not, what I heard was an unspoken word in the air: You lie, boy!

134 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:31:13pm

re: #117 Charles

Maureen Dowd was in the chamber at Obama's speech, and is claiming that Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie, boy."

Wow, that's a stretch. Where is this at? I didn't see it in her article this AM, so this is interesting...

135 SummerSong  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:31:28pm

re: #117 Charles

Maureen Dowd was in the chamber at Obama's speech, and is claiming that Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie, boy."

Considering how many people were there, you'd think if that had been said we would have heard about it before now.

136 Chekote  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:31:28pm

re: #117 Charles

Sorry but after reading the BDS fom Dowd for the last eight years, I need independent confirmation.

137 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:31:33pm

re: #125 Coracle

Did she claim he actually said that, or it was as if he did? I thought it was "as if" which is overblown racism concern trolling. If she's alleging he actually said it, then it should be verifiable listening to a replay.

You're right -- I read a distorted report at McClatchy that said she heard "boy." Her actual column says:

Surrounded by middle-aged white guys — a sepia snapshot of the days when such pols ran Washington like their own men’s club — Joe Wilson yelled “You lie!” at a president who didn’t.

But, fair or not, what I heard was an unspoken word in the air: You lie, boy!

138 brookly red  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:31:41pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

I kinda doubt that. Think there's any credibility to the claim?

it's all on tape no? should be easy to prove or not.

139 solomonpanting  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:31:44pm

re: #117 Charles

Maureen Dowd was in the chamber at Obama's speech, and is claiming that Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie, boy."

I hear "You lie."

140 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:31:48pm

One way people could try the experiment without using the word would be to carry signs picturing the White House painted black.

141 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:31:50pm

re: #117 Charles

Maureen Dowd was in the chamber at Obama's speech, and is claiming that Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie, boy."

To be fair, she's claiming boy is in the subtext, not the actual text.

142 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:31:57pm

re: #107 Diego

Bitch, bitch bitch... If you don't want sand in your shorts, don't go to the beach.

143 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:32:31pm

re: #112 Locker

That seems to be a birther sign to me. Just my opinion.

I think it kills two birds with one stone for the racist wingnut moron who is weilding it. It's obviously nirther stuff but at the same time there is a racist message of the "Go back to the jungle" type bundled with it. Deniable racism - they're getting down to a fine art.

144 Locker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:32:32pm

re: #115 mikeysdca

It's a two-fer.

Your perspective is appreciated for sure and it made me look at it again and think about it. I just showed it to my wife and we talked about it. Here is what we both agreed on:

- The sign holder guy may be a racist.
- There does seem to be overlap between racists and birthers.
- If there were no birthers the sign would be overtly racist.
- Context matters and the sign itself seems to be making a birther point not a racist point. In another context, it would be very racist.

Once again this is just our interpretation. It's easy for me to appreciate the two-fer perspective.

145 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:32:52pm

Look how McClatchy is reporting the Dowd column: Defiant Rep. Wilson: I won't apologize again.

In a column published Sunday, New York Times commentator Maureen Dowd said that what she heard Wilson shout in the House chamber was, "You lie, boy!"

"Wilson clearly did not like being lectured and even rebuked by the brainy black president presiding over the majestic chamber," Dowd wrote.

146 Chekote  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:32:55pm

If he had said that loud enough for Dowd to hear it up in the peanut gallery, the Dems reps would have heard it too.

147 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:33:34pm

re: #133 Noam Sayin'

Oh - Dowd heard an unspoken word. That makes a lot more sense than her hearing an actual spoken word that everyone else in attendance, including the tape recorder, missed.

Keeping "voices in her head" comment tucked away for the moment.

148 Chekote  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:33:38pm

OT

Technicallly speaking this blog is awesome. The spyglass is just fantastic. I almost like have a verbal conversation. Great stuff, Charles.

149 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:33:41pm

That's the last time I ever take anything at McClatchy at face value. What a joke.

150 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:33:48pm

re: #129 DEZes

Go try it then.

Unfortunately I would get stopped without the sign a hundred yards away from the rally. (The dark skin and afro would give me away)

I do think my showing up just as is would be a worthwhile experiment and I will try to head to a teaparty demonstration when they have one in so cal. Thanks for the inspiration.

151 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:33:55pm

re: #137 Charles

There it is. So she's going over the top, and painting with an overbroad brush. As I posted in a thread downstairs, the lack of leadership from the right in distancing from the statement gives her lots of maneuvering room to make hers.

152 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:33:58pm

re: #137 Charles

But, fair or not, what I heard was an unspoken word in the air: You lie, boy!


Ah.

153 Noam Sayin'  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:34:15pm

re: #147 SixDegrees

MoDo has magical powers. You're too stupid to understand.

/

154 midwestgak  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:34:30pm

re: #114 DEZes

Doing good. Watching NFL games. Waiting to watch my Bears tonight.

155 Racer X  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:34:32pm

re: #117 Charles

Maureen Dowd was in the chamber at Obama's speech, and is claiming that Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie, boy."

And this is how it starts to get really nasty. ANYONE who opposes Obama is now automatically deemed a racist.

Thanks a fucking lot Teabaggers!

156 Chekote  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:34:40pm

Trying to paint everyone that opposes Obama's policies as a racist is not right either. It is destructive too.

157 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:34:47pm
158 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:35:00pm

re: #124 BigPapa

But I'm dying to hear you explain why it's justifiable to ridicule a culture, a people, a region of the country because of polling numbers.

i'd explain, but i'm too busy sitting on my morbidly obese butt while drinkin' keystone light and watching nascar all the while mumbling something to my 8 dogs 'bout a black muslim kenyan being in the white house.

159 solomonpanting  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:35:09pm

"Wilson clearly did not like being lectured and even rebuked by the brainy black president presiding over the majestic chamber," the ditzy white Dowd wrote.

160 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:35:15pm

re: #117 Charles

Maureen Dowd was in the chamber at Obama's speech, and is claiming that Joe Wilson shouted, "You lie, boy."

..Joe Wilson yelled “You lie!” at a president who didn’t.

But, fair or not, what I heard was an unspoken word in the air: You lie, boy!

She didn't actually claim he said it. She said, in essence, that he might just as well have said it. To a point I agree. Joe Wilson is a racist in my opinion. Look at his crap about Thurgood Marshall's daughter.

161 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:35:51pm

re: #149 Charles

That's the last time I ever take anything at McClatchy at face value. What a joke.

Commence Name Skew program/: McLackey News Service.

162 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:36:08pm

Dowd went over the top, as usual, but Joe Wilson has a history of walking along the edge of racism. It's not completely out of line to suggest there might have been a hint of racism in his outburst.

163 Locker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:36:43pm

And now for a musical interlude. Uh O it's Spearhead!

[Link:playlist.com... ]

164 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:38:13pm
165 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:39:35pm

re: #160 Diego

She didn't actually claim he said it. She said, in essence, that he might just as well have said it. To a point I agree. Joe Wilson is a racist in my opinion. Look at his crap about Thurgood Marshall's daughter.

Stom Thurmond's daughter.

166 Racer X  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:39:43pm

Can some prominent GOP leader PLEASE step-up up and condemn the crazy racism and violent imagery going on?

Is this too much to ask?

Mitt?
Rudy?
McCain?

Anyone?

167 solomonpanting  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:39:56pm

re: #156 Chekote

Trying to paint everyone that opposes Obama's policies as a racist is not right either. It is destructive too.

As someone wrote:

Race also became an issue when a Republican leader denounced African-American politicians that she said had an "affinity" for socialism.

"I'm outraged prominent black politicians use the race card" to cover up their failed policies...

168 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:40:03pm

re: #165 TheQuis

Apologies, you are quite correct.

169 Chekote  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:40:12pm

re: #162 Charles

Take it with a grain of salt but several on the FNS panels said that Wilson has a history of bipartisanship. Wilson has been supporting Obama's efforts to win in Afghanistan. I am just reporting what I heard.

170 Chekote  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:41:25pm

re: #166 Racer X

Can some prominent GOP leader PLEASE step-up up and condemn the crazy racism and violent imagery going on?

Is this too much to ask?

Mitt?
Rudy?
McCain?

Anyone?

Maybe we should contact their offices and encourage them to do so?

171 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:41:53pm

re: #166 Racer X

Can some prominent GOP leader PLEASE step-up up and condemn the crazy racism and violent imagery going on?

Is this too much to ask?

Mitt?
Rudy?
McCain?

Anyone?

This is why Dowd's piece will come across as rational to many.

172 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:42:33pm

re: #166 Racer X

McCain tried at a town hall a few weeks ago in Arizona. They booed him.

173 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:42:36pm

re: #145 Charles

Look how McClatchy is reporting the Dowd column: Defiant Rep. Wilson: I won't apologize again.

McClatchey papers are the WND of the left.

174 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:43:17pm

re: #166 Racer X

Can some prominent GOP leader PLEASE step-up up and condemn the crazy racism and violent imagery going on?

Is this too much to ask?

Mitt?
Rudy?
McCain?

Anyone?

Or Michael Steele.

Expect crickets on this one because for them to condemn it they would have to acknowledge it which would be seen as a sign of admission.

175 Diego  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:43:43pm

re: #171 Coracle

This is why Dowd's piece will come across as rational to many.

I do not think it will 'come across as rational'. I think it is rational.

176 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:43:57pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

McCain tried at a town hall a few weeks ago in Arizona. They booed him.

I bet there were a lot Chris Simcox fans in that bunch.

177 avanti  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:44:13pm

re: #129 DEZes

Go try it then.

I recall a movie satire. (Kentucky fried movie ?) One bit was about a guy putting on a helmet, goes into a rough parts of town, steps in the middle of a group of blacks shooting craps and yells out the N word and takes off running as a stunt.

178 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:44:35pm

Powerline's claiming that Nazi imagery was not popular at the tea party demonstration. This is just a blatant falsehood.

I've been looking at photos this morning and I've seen dozens of images of signs that use Nazi imagery.

179 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:44:58pm

re: #175 Diego

I do not think it will 'come across as rational'. I think it is rational.

I think she went to far, but the silence of the leadership is an argument in favor of what you say.

180 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:45:14pm

re: #162 Charles

This is an actual discussion I had in the comments section on my facebook page in relation to posting the Dowd Article.

Jeff
let me clarify, like him or not, not every criticism of Obama is racial, and this wasn't either. This is just as bad as what Wilson did, if not worse for discourse.

Erik
'Race Card' cannot be played here. Sorry. Although Joe Wilson is corporate shill, with Big Pharma lobbyists & constituents to please to ensure his yacht payments, It's an absurd stretch to paint Wilson's outburst as racist... Especially in the face of Obama's blatant lies so far: Out of Iraq? No earmarks or rushed bills? No Lobbyists in the White House? White House transparency? Hold Bush Criminals accountable? Etc. Liars and corporate frontmen come in all shapes and colors brother.

Marquis
I think what we have here is a situation that is difficult to explain to people who... Read More’ve never experienced it. What Joe Wilson did wasn’t consciously “racist.” You’re absolutely right about that. Joe Wilson HAS EVERY RIGHT to disagree with the President and has every Right to call the President a "Liar" at any time he pleases EXCEPT when the established rules of decorum of the office that Joe Wilson holds says he should do other wise.

I can't/won't get into the psyche of Joe Wilson. BUT there are certain circles that don't respect Obama as President. When you get Saxby Chambliss saying "I think he's going to have to express some humility based on what we've seen around the country here in August, and that's not his inclination." Many black people could hear the words "Uppity Negro" in the subtext.

Again, Saxby might not have meant it that way but we sure did read it that way.

The challenge is to help you understand “unconscious racism.” It... Read More’s a racism that is mostly seen by minorities that have achieved a level of success. Its when you tell someone where you graduated from and they congratulate you and say that they support affirmative action for that very reason. They’re trying to offer praise but unconsciously they believe I got helped by the system and not because I got straight A’s in high school and 1400 on my SAT. Its when two impeccably dressed men, one white one black are having a business lunch and the waiter brings the check to the white side because they assume he’s in charge (when it was actually the other way around). The server isn’t racist, there just are some preconceptions that are in his mind.

To Reiterate! Joe Wilson was not trying to be a racist or make a racist remark when he yelled at the President. BUT the fact that he did can lead a great many people to the conclusion that IN THE MOMENT he felt what he was doing was fine and justified. For a split second he didn... Read More’t see the President of the United States he saw a guy fit to be yelled at. That could be completely wrong, but to take into account that Joe Wilson comes from South Carolina where black people in many places are expected to know their place. South Carolina where the Confederate Flag still flies and Joe Wilson belongs to the organization dedicated to making sure it stays that way. The same Joe Wilson that was forced to apologize after he wrongly attacked Essie Mae Washington-Williams after she came forward as the illegitimate black daughter of Strom Thurmond.

181 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:46:16pm

re: #177 avanti

I recall a movie satire. (Kentucky fried movie ?) One bit was about a guy putting on a helmet, goes into a rough parts of town, steps in the middle of a group of blacks shooting craps and yells out the N word and takes off running as a stunt.

I was thinking about the same movie scene, One strange movie.

182 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:46:48pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

McCain tried at a town hall a few weeks ago in Arizona. They booed him.

Wrong forum; he was right in the midst of the asylum, not the right place to pitch mental treatment from. An address from the floor of the Senate would be more suitable.

183 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:47:07pm

re: #133 Noam Sayin'

Maureen needs to [re]start taking her meds...

184 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:47:24pm

re: #149 Charles

That's the last time I ever take anything at McClatchy at face value. What a joke.

It was McClatchy (via Knight-Ridder and the Sacramento Bee) who employed Bobby Calvan, that insufferable twit who slagged some soldiers for daring to challenge his credentials at a checkpoint in Iraq back in '07. Media Arrogance Squared.

Calvan compared the GIs unfavorably to Peruvian troops he had encountered during an earlier adventure:

Lima is beautiful in the spring, when it’s not too hot, I was told. Machu Pichu is a must see, too.

My visits to the Green Zone are always a joy when I pass through checkpoints manned by Peruvian troops, with whom I have established a rapport. Sure, they are sticklers for rules, but unlike Ugandan troops — who have the warmth of armed robots — the Peruvians are simply simpatico.(emphasis added)

This ludicrous prose led me to ask, "Who is this person? A 1920s debutante
?"

185 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:47:36pm

re: #182 SixDegrees

Wrong forum; he was right in the midst of the asylum, not the right place to pitch mental treatment from. An address from the floor of the Senate would be more suitable.

Or a press release, or a called conference.

186 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:48:50pm

Another "We Came Unarmed (This Time) sign.

187 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:49:54pm

re: #182 SixDegrees

Wrong forum; he was right in the midst of the asylum, not the right place to pitch mental treatment from. An address from the floor of the Senate would be more suitable.

That wouldn't help. McCain did it the right way. More and more leaders need to stare into the belly of the beast and tell it to back down. To do if from the senate floor wouldn't reach the folks that he was intending to reach. Like the one congress woman whispering that she agrees with the birthers. While publicly denouncing them.

188 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:50:55pm

re: #186 Gus 802

Another "We Came Unarmed (This Time) sign.

...and?

189 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:50:56pm
190 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:51:17pm

re: #186 Gus 802

Another "We Came Unarmed (This Time) sign.

I'd like to see the person who was arguing that because there was no comma before the word "this," it meant they weren't really threatening. That sign is unequivocal. This little catchphrase is a very clear threat.

This was another popular slogan at the demonstration. Lots of pictures of it.

191 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:51:26pm

re: #188 PSGInfinity

...and?

And that is a threat.

192 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:51:52pm

re: #188 PSGInfinity

...and?

The message it the next time they will bring guns. It's a threat for violence. That's the and.

193 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:51:53pm

Flounce away, little flounceling.

194 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:52:05pm

re: #185 Coracle

Or a press release, or a called conference.

A press release is too cowardly and too easy to ignore; it needs to be said in person. A special conference, maybe - the danger is that it becomes all about McCain and not about the topic.

I think the Senate floor is perfect. It puts not only his fellow Republicans on the spot; it also reels in the Democrats, who would certainly support an expression of disgust over these loons (wouldn't they?). It could turn out to be the beginnings of a way to mend the bitter partisanship that has grown up in the Congress in the last few years, egged on by the insane baying of the fringe on both sides.

195 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:52:07pm
196 KingKenrod  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:52:12pm

re: #177 avanti

I recall a movie satire. (Kentucky fried movie ?) One bit was about a guy putting on a helmet, goes into a rough parts of town, steps in the middle of a group of blacks shooting craps and yells out the N word and takes off running as a stunt.

Rex Cramer, Danger Seeker!

197 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:52:56pm

I had heard of a neutron bomb,
But a neutron flounce is a new one.

198 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:53:04pm

Don't quote those comments, please. They're going to be deleted, and then I have to delete your comment too. If you want to comment on idiots like that, use the 'Reply' button instead, which doesn't include a quote.

199 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:53:12pm

re: #194 SixDegrees

A press release is too cowardly and too easy to ignore; it needs to be said in person. A special conference, maybe - the danger is that it becomes all about McCain and not about the topic.

I think the Senate floor is perfect. It puts not only his fellow Republicans on the spot; it also reels in the Democrats, who would certainly support an expression of disgust over these loons (wouldn't they?). It could turn out to be the beginnings of a way to mend the bitter partisanship that has grown up in the Congress in the last few years, egged on by the insane baying of the fringe on both sides.

The Senate floor would be great! But we aren't even getting the cowardly press release.

200 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:53:30pm

re: #187 TheQuis

That wouldn't help. McCain did it the right way. More and more leaders need to stare into the belly of the beast and tell it to back down. To do if from the senate floor wouldn't reach the folks that he was intending to reach. Like the one congress woman whispering that she agrees with the birthers. While publicly denouncing them.

There's no reaching the Ronulans, Birchers and neo-Nazis; they are too far beyond reason, locked into their own walled-off realities far too tightly to care. Addressing them is pointless; they are a lost cause, at best.

201 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:53:36pm

re: #190 Charles

I'd like to see the person who was arguing that because there was no comma before the word "this," it meant they weren't really threatening. That sign is unequivocal. This little catchphrase is a very clear threat.

This was another popular slogan at the demonstration. Lots of pictures of it.

Or in this case the parenthesis.

It's pretty simple and I can't see how people don't get it. They're saying "next time we come with guns."

202 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:53:56pm

re: #197 DEZes

I had heard of a neutron bomb,
But a neutron flounce is a new one.

It just destroys the flouncer, but leaves the board infrastructure intact.

203 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:54:24pm

re: #199 Coracle

The Senate floor would be great! But we aren't even getting the cowardly press release.

Not so far, no.

204 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:54:35pm

re: #201 Gus 802

Or in this case the parenthesis.

It's pretty simple and I can't see how people don't get it. They're saying "next time we come with guns."

Obviously. It's just more of the same denial to try to argue this isn't a very clear threat.

205 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:54:58pm

re: #202 Coracle

It just destroys the flouncer, but leaves the board infrastructure intact.

And its mildly entertaining.

206 a marine mom  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:55:07pm

No matter what side of an issue someone falls on, there will always be racism, sexism or or discrimination of some sort.

The sweeping statement here is that everyone has a dash of this or a pinch of that stated above. It's human nature.

To believe that there is a perfect person out that is heading up a community organization, running the government or in your family or friendships is ridiculous.

It doesn't excuse their actions, but it does explain them better. I suggest that we all need to get down from our high horse and rejoin reality.

207 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:55:17pm

re: #204 Charles

Obviously. It's just more of the same denial to try to argue this isn't a very clear threat.

I know. It's like trying to explain it to a dining room table. ;)

208 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:57:33pm

re: #206 a marine mom

To believe that there is a perfect person out that is heading up a community organization, running the government or in your family or friendships is ridiculous.

Bite your tongue! That describes me perfectly.

209 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:57:42pm

re: #200 SixDegrees

There's no reaching the Ronulans, Birchers and neo-Nazis; they are too far beyond reason, locked into their own walled-off realities far too tightly to care. Addressing them is pointless; they are a lost cause, at best.

Very true. BUT, If you want the imagery of trying to actually show that you're trying to calm the masses you have to do it in front of the masses. A speech on CSPAN will get covered by a couple of blogs. A scene where a Senator or Congressman tells them to back down and behave themselves, EVEN IF HE'S UNSUCCESSFUL will win him actual support from people watching at home as it will be broadcast on every station.

210 Hassen bin Sober  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:57:51pm

#149 "That's the last time I ever take anything at McClatchy at face value."

I worked specifying and installing newspaper production systems for most of the 70s and 80s - I was fortunate to see what went on, in chains and properties, large and small - considering what we all have been given to know over the past 10-12 years, I wonder why anyone in that time-frame would ever have taken anything, from any US Media organization, at face value - down to real-estate and fashion feature articles - all spin, all garbage, all agenda-driven, all stooge-like subversives, pumped out of many of our once-grand universities.

211 Locker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:58:00pm

re: #206 a marine mom

No matter what side of an issue someone falls on, there will always be racism, sexism or or discrimination of some sort.

The sweeping statement here is that everyone has a dash of this or a pinch of that stated above. It's human nature.

To believe that there is a perfect person out that is heading up a community organization, running the government or in your family or friendships is ridiculous.

It doesn't excuse their actions, but it does explain them better. I suggest that we all need to get down from our high horse and rejoin reality.

My wife says I'm a perfect pain in the ass. Does that count?

212 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:58:09pm

Crazy Pam sez...

While the largest civilian march on Washington in the nation's history was taking place in Washington, dear leader was hiding in Minneapolis. Like a dog marking his territory, O took to the stage where the RNC held their convention last year In yet another staged event, Obama was given his daily fix of faux cheering to feed his insatiable head.
...
The propagandists, disinformationalists and their corrupt media activist tools will minimize it, marginalize, ridicule it, but they will not stop us. This is the beginning of the end for them (if not them, us).

We now have a President that seeks to divide and destroy. Has the nation ever been so at odds? Not since the civil war. And in a stunning paradox we now have a president seeking to enslave half the American people.

213 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:58:16pm

re: #206 a marine mom

I suggest that we all need to get down from our high horse and rejoin reality.

The reality is that these tea parties are run and organized by paulbots and bircher types, and they have no problem with having racists, kooks and conspiracy mongers in their midst.

214 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:58:24pm

re: #207 Gus 802

I know. It's like trying to explain it to a dining room table. ;)

A solid right-wing-walnut table and six chairs.

215 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:58:38pm

re: #177 avanti

I recall a movie satire. (Kentucky fried movie ?) One bit was about a guy putting on a helmet, goes into a rough parts of town, steps in the middle of a group of blacks shooting craps and yells out the N word and takes off running as a stunt.

That reminds me of what the villain made Bruce Willis do in Die Hard: With A Vengeance, where Samuel L. Jackson reluctantly pulled his chestnuts out of the fire.

216 Racer X  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:58:46pm

re: #198 Charles

Don't quote those comments, please. They're going to be deleted, and then I have to delete your comment too. If you want to comment on idiots like that, use the 'Reply' button instead, which doesn't include a quote.

Can you edit the quoted comment to turn it into a reply?

217 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:59:24pm

re: #149 Charles

That's the last time I ever take anything at McClatchy at face value. What a joke.

I stopped taking them at face value back in the '80's when they led with an article that screamed "Nuclear Device Lost in Valley" or something like that. It was only have several page turns for continued... pieces of the column that you got to the final para and found out that a medical x-ray device had fallen off the back of a truck.

218 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:59:45pm

re: #214 debutaunt

A solid right-wing-walnut table and six chairs.

Could be a round table.

/

219 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:00:29pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

Just as aside crazy pam is in Amy Kremer's sidebar.

220 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:00:30pm

re: #206 a marine mom

It doesn't excuse their actions, but it does explain them better. I suggest that we all need to get down from our high horse and rejoin reality.

Reality is that a very large number of patrons to these tea parties, which shares some values of principles with me, are nucking futz and are carrying signs that say "We're Un-Armed (this time)" and 'Obama=Nazi.'

That's just stupid and detrimental to the causes they (and I) believe in. Pointing this out as such is not being on a high horse.

Alternately, you are advocating ignorance of a serious issue with considerable risk.

221 yael  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:00:40pm

re: #209 TheQuis

Very true. And in any group like that there are sure to be some of the uninformed and the uncommitted who need to see that the voices of unreason don't have it all their own way.

222 debutaunt  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:00:43pm

re: #218 Gus 802

Could be a round table.

/

It sure could. I was going for the walnut vs wingnut tiny joke.

223 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:01:39pm

I wanted to read up on the john birch society, so I went to wikipedia in search of some brief background. And while wiki is not a solid source of information, I found this quote that was somewhat interesting:

Ayn Rand said in a Playboy interview that "What is wrong with them (the john birch society) is that they don't seem to have any specific, clearly defined political philosophy. ... I consider the Birch Society futile, because they are not for Capitalism but merely against Communism."

Doesn't that lack of a specific, clearly defined political philosophy sound like the tea party movement itself?

224 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:02:09pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

So there are two wacky things about "the largest civilian march on Washington in the nation's history"

(1) the whole "largest" thing;
(2) but if you assume largest, then I'd like to know when there was a larger military march on Washington (as she infers with the "civilian" qualifier).

225 avanti  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:02:29pm

re: #196 KingKenrod

Rex Cramer, Danger Seeker!

YES !

226 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:03:23pm

re: #222 debutaunt

It sure could. I was going for the walnut vs wingnut tiny joke.

Nah, not from me. I don't want to inflame things.

227 Locker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:04:33pm

re: #223 _RememberTonyC

I wanted to read up on the john birch society, so I went to wikipedia in search of some brief background. And while wiki is not a solid source of information, I found this quote that was somewhat interesting:

Ayn Rand said in a Playboy interview that "What is wrong with them (the john birch society) is that they don't seem to have any specific, clearly defined political philosophy. ... I consider the Birch Society futile, because they are not for Capitalism but merely against Communism."

Doesn't that lack of a specific, clearly defined political philosophy sound like the tea party movement itself?

It's the Tea Party of No.

228 MJ  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:05:00pm

re: #212 Killgore Trout

"We now have a President that seeks to divide and destroy. Has the nation ever been so at odds? Not since the civil war. And in a stunning paradox we now have a president seeking to enslave half the American people..."

That's pretty stunning, Kilgore.
It is essentially the moral equivalent of calling Jews Nazis and saying Israel has established concentration camps to suggest that a Black man is trying to "enslave" other Americans while talking about the "civil war" he is creating.

229 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:05:45pm

re: #216 Racer X

Can you edit[bowdlerize] the quoted comment to turn it into a reply?

Yep. :)

230 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:06:12pm

re: #228 MJ

Yeah, she's pretty loopy. She was scheduled to speak at the tea party yesterday but I guess it fell through.

231 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:06:33pm

re: #223 _RememberTonyC

I wanted to read up on the john birch society, so I went to wikipedia in search of some brief background. And while wiki is not a solid source of information, I found this quote that was somewhat interesting:

Ayn Rand said in a Playboy interview that "What is wrong with them (the john birch society) is that they don't seem to have any specific, clearly defined political philosophy. ... I consider the Birch Society futile, because they are not for Capitalism but merely against Communism."

Doesn't that lack of a specific, clearly defined political philosophy sound like the tea party movement itself?

Perfect:

"I consider the Birch Society futile, because they are not for Capitalism but merely against Communism."

Which could be used as a form:

I consider the ___ futile, because they are not for ___ but merely against ___ .

232 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:06:45pm

re: #230 Killgore Trout

Yeah, she's pretty loopy. She was scheduled to speak at the tea party yesterday but I guess it fell through.

Her tea party went to pot.

233 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:07:14pm

re: #166 Racer X

Can some prominent GOP leader PLEASE step-up up and condemn the crazy racism and violent imagery going on?

Is this too much to ask?

Mitt?
Rudy?
McCain?

Anyone?

We haven't heard much of anything from Romney, to my knowledge. Which if calculated, is a pretty smart political move. As of today, it would be difficult to link him to the crazies. And if during the next election(s) the GOP continues to be dominated by crazies, he has yet to alienate them.

234 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:07:33pm

re: #223 _RememberTonyC

I wanted to read up on the john birch society, so I went to wikipedia in search of some brief background. And while wiki is not a solid source of information, I found this quote that was somewhat interesting:

Ayn Rand said in a Playboy interview that "What is wrong with them (the john birch society) is that they don't seem to have any specific, clearly defined political philosophy. ... I consider the Birch Society futile, because they are not for Capitalism but merely against Communism."

Doesn't that lack of a specific, clearly defined political philosophy sound like the tea party movement itself?

Yes. And fertile soil for some pedagogue with easy solutions and short-cut answers.

You won't get a Republican nominee in 2012 who can explain anything complex or credibly deal with any complex issue. This environment will prevent that.

Instead you will get a SoCon whose answers involve demonizing all those in opposition, especially the "RINOs."

235 a marine mom  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:10:47pm

re: #213 Slumbering Behemoth

That's my point. It's the same on both sides of the issue. There a kooks on the left and on the right that are organizing protests and the like.

236 Neutral President  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:11:12pm

re: #231 Gus 802

Perfect:

"I consider the Birch Society futile, because they are not for Capitalism but merely against Communism."

Which could be used as a form:

I consider the ___ futile, because they are not for ___ but merely against ___ .

I consider the Tea Parties futile, because they are not for proactive solutions to complex political problems but merely against Barack Obama and everything to do with him.

237 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:11:19pm

By the way, please post links here of Nazi imagery at the protest. I've already found lots of them, but I intend to rub Powerline's stupid denial post (they're claiming Nazi imagery was not popular at the demo) in their faces, and as many as possible would be good.

238 a marine mom  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:13:28pm

re: #237 Charles

What's the point?

239 Locker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:14:48pm

One nazi picture right here on front page of cnn along with some more weapon threats.

[Link:cnn.com... ]

240 Throbert McGee  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:15:28pm

re: #197 DEZes

I had heard of a neutron bomb,
But a neutron flounce is a new one.

Huh? Why "neutron"?

Anyway, Diego's thought-experiment seems to have overlooked an important point -- bringing such an overtly racist sign to the rally "to see what would happen" would have the effect of providing welcome cover to actual racists, by acting as a flattering contrast to them that makes them look much better by comparison.

Cf. "Of course I oppose gays in the military, because homosexuality is immoral and degraded and unnatural -- but hey, I'm not like Fred Phelps, walking around with a GOD HATES FAGS sign."

241 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:16:18pm

re: #237 Charles

By the way, please post links here of Nazi imagery at the protest. I've already found lots of them, but I intend to rub Powerline's stupid denial post (they're claiming Nazi imagery was not popular at the demo) in their faces, and as many as possible would be good.

Late in the game, Charles. If the signs haven't shown up by now, they likely didn't exist.

242 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:16:24pm

re: #240 Throbert McGee

Good poin.

243 Coracle  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:16:44pm

re: #242 Coracle

+t

pimf

244 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:18:02pm

re: #240 Throbert McGee

Huh? Why "neutron"?

A recent flouncer had the nic. Mr Neutron.

245 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:19:04pm

re: #237 Charles

By the way, please post links here of Nazi imagery at the protest. I've already found lots of them, but I intend to rub Powerline's stupid denial post (they're claiming Nazi imagery was not popular at the demo) in their faces, and as many as possible would be good.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

246 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:19:21pm

re: #241 PSGInfinity

Late in the game, Charles. If the signs haven't shown up by now, they likely didn't exist.

They have shown up. I have dozens of them open right now. But go ahead and continue denying it.

247 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:20:15pm

re: #237 Charles

Seen this one yet?

248 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:20:46pm

re: #86 Charles

I'm not going to delete that comment because this discussion wouldn't make much sense without having that for context, but please don't post that word here, even if it's ***'ed out. It's like a punch in the eye to decent people.

And a turd in the punch bowl, as it were...

249 Chekote  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:20:53pm

Charles

Is not Nazi imagery but funny.

[Link: www.themudflats.net...]

250 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:21:12pm

Olympia Snowe (R Maine) says health care bill with public option will not pass in the Senate:

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

Interesting take from a liberal Republican ...

251 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:22:13pm

re: #237 Charles

Another "Unarmed" protest sign.

252 MacDuff  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:22:51pm

Whatever happened to Zombie? Did I miss something?

253 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:23:04pm

re: #209 TheQuis

Very true. BUT, If you want the imagery of trying to actually show that you're trying to calm the masses you have to do it in front of the masses. A speech on CSPAN will get covered by a couple of blogs. A scene where a Senator or Congressman tells them to back down and behave themselves, EVEN IF HE'S UNSUCCESSFUL will win him actual support from people watching at home as it will be broadcast on every station.

Denunciation from the Senate floor worked to derail McCarthy.

The parallels here are to numerous to list.

254 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:23:53pm

Obama as Satan:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

255 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:23:55pm

re: #251 Slumbering Behemoth

Nazi pic
was the next in the slideshow.

256 SummerSong  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:24:17pm

re: #252 MacDuff

Whatever happened to Zombie? Did I miss something?

I have been wondering about that poster, as well.

257 arethusa  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:24:24pm

re: #246 Charles

Isn't Powerline also arguing for greater crowds at the march than the ca. 70000 or so most organizations are now saying? So by their math, hundreds or thousands of signs are infinitesimal when they think several hundred thousand people showed up...allowing them to diminish the charges of racism.

258 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:24:31pm

re: #249 Chekote

Charles

Is not Nazi imagery but funny.

[Link: www.themudflats.net...]

Moran! That's great, made my AM.

259 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:26:07pm

re: #237 Charles

Not nazi related, but pretty stupid anyway.

260 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:26:45pm
261 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:27:20pm

I think this guy is a fan of some Nazi metal band. He's not calling Obama a Nazi but he might be one himself.

262 Throbert McGee  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:27:22pm

re: #244 DEZes

Huh? Why "neutron"?

A recent flouncer had the nic. Mr Neutron.

Ah, thanks.

"I am able to eat enormous quantities of ice cream, Mrs. Ess-See-You-Em, but I cannot take the heat here at LGF!"

263 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:27:31pm

re: #259 Slumbering Behemoth

Not nazi related, but pretty stupid anyway.

I would say that's just as bad as Nazi imagery. And yes, stupid.

264 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:27:38pm

One of my favorite exercises that I do with my basketball analysts goes something like this: "build me the perfect basketball player." then we go down the categories and list all the best attributes of the players we like. For example: the shooting touch of Ray Allen ... the competitiveness of Kobe Bryant ... the physique of LeBron James, etc.

So I'd like to try and do the same exercise here, but with politicians, especially those who could be president someday. I'd start with ...

The financial skills of Mitt Romney ... the street smarts of Rudy Giuliani ... etc. Which pols and what skills of theirs do you guys like?

265 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:27:46pm

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

266 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:29:01pm

re: #260 TheMatrix31

Fuck her.

are you from Maine?

267 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:29:30pm

re: #237 Charles

The new face of hitler.

268 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:29:34pm

re: #253 SixDegrees

Denunciation from the Senate floor worked to derail McCarthy.

The parallels here are to numerous to list.

But McCarthy was a sitting senator. Remember that era. The McCarthy Trials were carried on national television on a major network. The trials themselves had a large audience. We're not working in a place with 3 television stations there are hundreds of them. All of them looking for a sliver of ratings. To have a speech denouncing it on the senate floor would be strong to the senators but no one watching regular tv would hear about it.

269 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:29:37pm

re: #246 Charles

They have shown up. I have dozens of them open right now. But go ahead and continue denying it.

Dozens.

75,000 (low estimate)
500,000 - 1,000,000 (consensus estimate)
(I live in DCTown and talked with returning marches yesterday)
2,000,000 (high estimate)

Perspective.

270 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:30:27pm

Obama's head on a stick:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

271 avanti  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:30:29pm

re: #250 _RememberTonyC

Olympia Snowe (R Maine) says health care bill with public option will not pass in the Senate:

[Link: www.bloomberg.com...]

Interesting take from a liberal Republican ...

I think the trigger compromise may pass. BTW, the health car bill approval/disapproval is now 48/48 on Rasmussen, up a bunch from the pre speech numbers.

272 J.S.  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:30:31pm

I did a brief search...yeah, well, just a little too crazy, too sickening...pathetic...(It's what happens when everyone has "free speech" and there are no editors?)

273 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:30:39pm

re: #245 Gus 802

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Worse one I've seen yet...

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

274 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:30:46pm

re: #80 Locker

I completely respect your perspective here. Not saying folks should take things this way or that way but we should allow room for folks (regulars, not flamers or sockies) to adjust if they go out of bounds and not just pound them into the pavement.

I've thought of an Anti-Flounce Intervention Squad. They ride in and talk the person off the ledge before they jump, and the rest of us let them work rather than screaming "JUMP! JUMP!".

Locker,

If you follow the flounces closely I think you will find that Charles is very fair and patient in dealing with the "pre-flounce" condition. Once they do go off the rails, if it is a regular poster who has just gotten too excited, they get a time out, if it is an outrageous comment or a flounce, they get blocked, which is itself a type of time out. Should they email in an apology and promise better behaviour, they get reinstated. If they instead mail in hate and bile, it shows the patience was more than they deserved.

As to the other posters, they are not moderators, they are commentators and many, I for one, have grown weary of the childish behaviour of some posters and do indeed encourage them to "jump."

275 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:30:47pm

re: #223 _RememberTonyC

I wanted to read up on the john birch society, so I went to wikipedia in search of some brief background. And while wiki is not a solid source of information, I found this quote that was somewhat interesting:

Ayn Rand said in a Playboy interview that "What is wrong with them (the john birch society) is that they don't seem to have any specific, clearly defined political philosophy. ... I consider the Birch Society futile, because they are not for Capitalism but merely against Communism."

Doesn't that lack of a specific, clearly defined political philosophy sound like the tea party movement itself?

Yes, it sounds dead-on to me. But from the beginning, did anyone really believe these protests were about learned and rational opposition to Obama's tax policy, the stimulus and the bailouts? I saw a "freedom isn't free" sign the other day and was wondering what the connection was to tax policy, just as an example.

276 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:30:58pm

re: #269 PSGInfinity

Perspective.

Denial.

277 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:31:58pm

It was truly stupid of Powerline to say that considering the history of this imagery showing up at tea parties.

278 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:32:09pm

Calling for a coup:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

279 TheMatrix31  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:32:36pm

re: #264 _RememberTonyC

One of my favorite exercises that I do with my basketball analysts goes something like this: "build me the perfect basketball player." then we go down the categories and list all the best attributes of the players we like. For example: the shooting touch of Ray Allen ... the competitiveness of Kobe Bryant ... the physique of LeBron James, etc.

So I'd like to try and do the same exercise here, but with politicians, especially those who could be president someday. I'd start with ...

The financial skills of Mitt Romney ... the street smarts of Rudy Giuliani ... etc. Which pols and what skills of theirs do you guys like?

Financial skills of Romney, the testicles of Rudy, the charisma of Palin, the level-headed nature of VDH, the passion of Mark Levin...I dunno?

280 TheMatrix31  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:32:58pm

re: #266 _RememberTonyC

I'm from Hellifornia.

281 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:33:00pm

re: #276 Charles

Denial.

Mirror.

282 avanti  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:33:04pm

re: #269 PSGInfinity

Dozens.

75,000 (low estimate)
500,000 - 1,000,000 (consensus estimate)
(I live in DCTown and talked with returning marches yesterday)
2,000,000 (high estimate)

Perspective.

Link to the consensus estimate of nearly a million ?

283 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:33:16pm

KT: They aren't a metal band, they are extreme BMX'ers. Notably skin headed, and that's a sieg rune as the S, but it's probable that these guys just don't get it.

284 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:33:45pm

re: #204 Charles

Obviously. It's just more of the same denial to try to argue this isn't a very clear threat.

It's spreading and getting worse. Some moron showed up at an event in Lansing, Michigan yesterday with an AK-47 and two handguns, allegedly loaded (though I'm not sure how anyone knew this) yammering about his "rights," blah, blah, blah.

Apparently, this mouth-breather forgot that Michigan doesn't permit open carry except under extremely proscribed circumstances, like hunting. You can get a concealed carry permit - for handguns. But walking down the street with openly armed is called brandishing here, and it's illegal.

Our genius was, no doubt, inspired by the similar slime that started this in Arizona. Coupled with the increasing, insane mood in the country that if you lose, the party that one is somehow not the "legitimate" government, this is rapidly going to spiral down to a very, very bad place.

The only good thing I'll say is that cooler weather is coming, at least to the north, and this will drive the crazies back into their basements and bunkers for a few months. I'll be staying the hell away from the south and southwest, though, for the foreseeable future.

285 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:33:47pm

re: #277 Thanos

It was truly stupid of Powerline to say that considering the history of this imagery showing up at tea parties.

Nazi imagery was everywhere at this demonstration. Even in the C-SPAN feeds, you could see Obama-Hitler signs and swastikas.

286 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:33:57pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

I think this guy is a fan of some Nazi metal band. He's not calling Obama a Nazi but he might be one himself.

Metal Mulisha is a dirt bike company with a clothing line. Where they are in the political spectrum, I do not know.

287 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:34:10pm

re: #275 Flyers1974

Yes, it sounds dead-on to me. But from the beginning, did anyone really believe these protests were about learned and rational opposition to Obama's tax policy, the stimulus and the bailouts? I saw a "freedom isn't free" sign the other day and was wondering what the connection was to tax policy, just as an example.

at the beginning, it seemed the focus of the tea parties was on "out of control" spending and the inevitable higher taxes that were (are) sure to follow. hence the "tea party" label as a protest of taxation without representation. but from that promising start, they seem to have devolved into something more sinister.

288 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:34:24pm

Hey Lizards!

I've been doing some deep thinking again.

It's the conflict of ideals that is bothering me. It seems that the Whacko's say simultaneously "We are all in this together", then find a human to demonify. It's easy to unite the masses in hate, but they preach freedom and equality for their particular flavor of whatever. We see this in the fringe of our political movements, we see it in the jihadi's, we see it anywhere "power" is the goal.

Lizard have asked repeatedly in the last few days, how does one protest government actions with which we disagree without becoming tainted by the fringe?

Perhaps the place to start is in the heart. Live and Act in the belief that we are all human beings and that we are all in this together. Use facts, not feelings when discussing issues and go forward into the adversarial system that (for some reason I don't really fathom) works so well. Hopefully, the sanity will show thru.

289 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:34:26pm

re: #283 Thanos

KT: They aren't a metal band, they are extreme BMX'ers. Notably skin headed, and that's a sieg rune as the S, but it's probable that these guys just don't get it.

Motocrossers, not BMX'ers...

[Link: www.metalmulisha.com...]

290 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:35:00pm

re: #279 TheMatrix31

Financial skills of Romney, the testicles of Rudy, the charisma of Palin, the level-headed nature of VDH, the passion of Mark Levin...I dunno?

that's pretty good ...

291 DEZes  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:35:11pm

Time to fire up the grill.
Have a good one Lizards.

292 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:35:46pm

re: #280 TheMatrix31

I'm from Hellifornia.

sorry to hear that ... Orange County, perhaps?

293 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:35:49pm

re: #261 Killgore Trout

I think this guy is a fan of some Nazi metal band. He's not calling Obama a Nazi but he might be one himself.

"Pelosi is a Jezebel?"

WTF?

294 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:36:07pm

re: #291 DEZes

Time to fire up the grill.
Have a good one Lizards.

later DEZ

295 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:36:22pm

re: #281 PSGInfinity

Mirror.

Out of curiosity PSGInfinity, how did you feel about the Bush/Hitler and similar during the last 8 years? Did you excuse them as the irrelevant minority voice as well?

296 TheMatrix31  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:36:37pm

re: #292 _RememberTonyC

sorry to hear that ... Orange County, perhaps?

Nope, unfortunately.

297 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:36:40pm

re: #278 Charles

Don't miss the Burning flesh from the ovens

298 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:36:59pm

re: #268 TheQuis

But McCarthy was a sitting senator. Remember that era. The McCarthy Trials were carried on national television on a major network. The trials themselves had a large audience. We're not working in a place with 3 television stations there are hundreds of them. All of them looking for a sliver of ratings. To have a speech denouncing it on the senate floor would be strong to the senators but no one watching regular tv would hear about it.

There's this thing called "the news."

Sorry, but insisting that this take place at one of these gatherings just strikes me as fucking stupid. It would accomplish absolutely nothing. The inmates aren't interested in the latest mental health protocols.

299 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:37:19pm

re: #295 Bagua

Out of curiosity PSGInfinity, how did you feel about the Bush/Hitler and similar during the last 8 years? Did you excuse them as the irrelevant minority voice as well?

They weren't a minority, and you know it.

300 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:37:25pm

re: #286 Slumbering Behemoth

Metal Mulisha is a dirt bike company with a clothing line. Where they are in the political spectrum, I do not know.

Ah, thanks. Kind of an odd shirt to walk around in.

301 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:38:03pm

re: #285 Charles

Nazi imagery was everywhere at this demonstration. Even in the C-SPAN feeds, you could see Obama-Hitler signs and swastikas.

I'm still not visiting Stormfront, but I have it on good authority that they are seriously wooded up about this over there.

302 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:38:23pm

re: #296 TheMatrix31

Nope, unfortunately.


I love Cali ... but they'd need to triple my salary to get me to move there.

303 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:38:46pm

re: #298 SixDegrees

There's this thing called "the news."

Sorry, but insisting that this take place at one of these gatherings just strikes me as fucking stupid. It would accomplish absolutely nothing. The inmates aren't interested in the latest mental health protocols.

I'm a beliver in Godwin's Law. Once I see any reference to Hitler, I know the argument has gone down the sewage pipes.

304 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:39:01pm

re: #299 PSGInfinity

They weren't a minority, and you know it.

No, I do not "know it." Furthermore, I don't recall them in his first months of office.

305 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:39:15pm

re: #254 Charles

Obama as Satan:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Assassination threat.

306 Throbert McGee  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:39:47pm

re: #269 PSGInfinity

(I live in DCTown and talked with returning marches yesterday)
2,000,000 (high estimate)

That's for fucking sure.

Youtube Video

/what's a "dutchie"?

307 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:39:49pm

Has anyone burned Obama in effigy? They started doing that to Bush, what, almost immediately.

308 Chekote  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:41:30pm

For God's sake, we put a man on the moon but can't get accurate crowd counts?!

309 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:41:35pm

Obamacare = death.

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

310 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:41:47pm

re: #307 ggt

They hung an effigy of Obama at a California Tea Party a few months ago.

311 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:41:55pm

re: #304 Bagua

No, I do not "know it." Furthermore, I don't recall them in his first months of office.

1) That's your problem, not mine. See zombietime.com for a few details.
2) Bush's first few months were dedicated to the limited agenda he ran on in 2000... which still startled DC Libbies because he was actually *trying to accomplish* what he promised to do. Mission accomplished, BTW.

Perspective.

312 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:42:13pm

gotta run, Lizards ... work beckons at 5pm ET. have a great evening!

313 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:42:20pm

Fat Bastard Veggie --thanks for the upding. I thought I was getting a little gushy in that post. Glad someone thought it worth reading.

How does CV like living in the sock drawer?

314 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:42:24pm

Another Nazi sign (not sure if that's a re-run)

315 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:42:42pm

re: #310 Killgore Trout

They hung an effigy of Obama at a California Tea Party a few months ago.

Whacky Californians?

316 TheMatrix31  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:43:30pm

re: #309 Charles

The first comment on that second pic is as stupid as the pic itself.


ewcw12 says:

They really marked that wrong. I believe that if there was any date of death for the United States, it was 11/22/1963. And again on 01/20/2001.
Posted 21 hours ago

How dumb.

317 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:43:36pm

re: #297 Killgore Trout

YIKES! That's just plain frightening!

318 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:44:07pm

Why do people do stupid stuff like this? What's the point? It's counterproductive foolishness, not to mention overtly racist.

319 solomonpanting  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:44:34pm

re: #308 Chekote

For God's sake, we put a man on the moon but can't get accurate crowd counts?!

Carrying signs depicting President Obama as Adolf Hitler and the Joker, and chanting slogans such as "'No big government" and "Obamacare makes me sick," approximately 60,000 to 70,000 people flooded Pennsylvania Ave, according to the Washington DC Fire Department.

320 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:44:44pm

re: #314 Killgore Trout

Another Nazi sign (not sure if that's a re-run)

Not a rerun -- that was apparently a popular theme:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

321 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:44:59pm

re: #297 Killgore Trout

Wow. Sick.

322 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:45:34pm

And BTW, comparing Obama to previous facistsi isn't that far-fetched...

323 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:45:36pm

re: #318 im_gumby_damnit

Why do people do stupid stuff like this? What's the point? It's counterproductive foolishness, not to mention overtly racist.

They need to vent their spleens. My spleen has never needed to be vented, so I don't really understand either.

324 brookly red  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:45:41pm

re: #308 Chekote

For God's sake, we put a man on the moon but can't get accurate crowd counts?!

/half of what Fox says & twice what CNN says should be accurate, no?

325 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:46:06pm

re: #320 Charles

Not a rerun -- that was apparently a popular theme:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

That's plagiarized from a Bush sign.

326 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:46:10pm

re: #311 PSGInfinity

1) That's your problem, not mine. See zombietime.com for a few details.
2) Bush's first few months were dedicated to the limited agenda he ran on in 2000... which still startled DC Libbies because he was actually *trying to accomplish* what he promised to do. Mission accomplished, BTW.

Perspective.

re: #311 PSGInfinity

I see, so you find ways to excuse the morons when they are onside and condemn them when they are not. Interesting.

There is in fact, little difference between the two. As you can not see that you are obviously blinded by bias.

Perspective.

327 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:47:01pm

re: #308 Chekote

For God's sake, we put a man on the moon but can't get accurate crowd counts?!

We already did. The DC Fire Department estimated 50k - 70k. I see no reason at all to doubt them. None of the other estimates I've seen come from anyone with any experience in performing such estimates, and all are holding considerable axes to grind.

DC police and the NPS, I'm told, withhold their estimates from the public at least for a while, to derail the the "YOU LYING FUCKERS ARE WRONG, YOU LYING FUCKERS!!!" response official estimates so often elicit. They still perform them, however, and are extremely good at it, especially in DC where crowd estimating needs to be done both accurately and often.

329 midwestgak  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:48:13pm

Tariffs on Chinese Tires

If this has been discussed, would someone please link me to the thread?

330 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:48:26pm

re: #322 PSGInfinity

And BTW, comparing Obama to previous facistsi isn't that far-fetched...

I see, so that makes it just dandy to display such public offense to a sitting US President? Pathetic.

331 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:49:08pm

Here's another

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

332 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:49:24pm

re: #328 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh, he makes a handsome Che.

333 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:50:07pm

re: #298 SixDegrees

There's this thing called "the news."

Sorry, but insisting that this take place at one of these gatherings just strikes me as fucking stupid. It would accomplish absolutely nothing. The inmates aren't interested in the latest mental health protocols.

"The News" covers what will bring viewers. A speech on the Senate floor although powerful and should be a headlining piece on the news won't make air in most markets. They want drama, they want controversy, they want The Springer Show.

Consider this, over the last month there were probably a couple hundred meetings/gatherings/town halls that happened across the nation. The VAST MAJORITY were peaceful. The peaceful ones didn't get an ounce of coverage. The townhalls that you saw on the news were the loud and crazy ones or ones that featured controversy.

And its not about the inmates its about the people that happen to be there with the inmates that want to legitimately protest what they think is going wrong. Its about the person at home deciding what to do with their vote. If they feel that silence is complicent then they'll think that Republican leaders side with the crazies. If they see on "the News" the Republican leaders standing up to the crazies whether it be at a tea party or a townhall then they'll know leadership is trying to lead.

Yes, you're right, in an ideal world the news would cover a great speech on the senate floor denouncing the insanity. It would be broadcast and folks would see the leaders being leaders.

Besides, we have a saying where I'm from "If you're in the whore house on Saturday, who cares what you say in church on Sunday."

334 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:51:38pm

Another Confederate flag:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

335 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:51:44pm

I think this must be one of the most frightening protest signs, like, EVAR!
/only a little

336 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:52:24pm

re: #326 Bagua

re: #311 PSGInfinity

I see, so you find ways to excuse the morons when they are onside and condemn them when they are not. Interesting. There is in fact, little difference between the two. As you can not see that you are obviously blinded by bias. Perspective.

1) Wrong.
2) If you say so.
3) Wrong. If you can't see the difference between those trying to *save* America and those trying to *destroy* it, there's nothing to say to you.
4) I wear my biases openly. You hide from yours. Whose eyes are closed?
5) Snort. God help the facile...

337 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:53:27pm

re: #333 TheQuis

Not buying.

338 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:53:36pm

re: #322 PSGInfinity

And BTW, comparing Obama to previous facistsi isn't that far-fetched...

Sure, whatever. You make sure and let me know when he goes on a genocidal campaign of ethnic cleansing, 'kay.

339 TheMatrix31  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:54:00pm

I'm about to give up on politics.

340 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:54:24pm

re: #334 Charles

...and not a black person in sight. Stormfront loves this stuff.

341 KingKenrod  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:54:24pm

I don't know if the waffleimages links are OK, but here are a few:

Image: 25pth4y.jpg
Image: 29327261-e120806c406de8892eb7dcc5e0.jpg
Image: 2rnjups.jpg
Image: e.jpg

342 lostlakehiker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:55:00pm

re: #180 TheQuis

This is an actual discussion I had in the comments section on my facebook page in relation to posting the Dowd Article.

*snip*
The challenge is to help you understand “unconscious racism.” It... Read More’s a racism that is mostly seen by minorities that have achieved a level of success. Its when you tell someone where you graduated from and they congratulate you and say that they support affirmative action for that very reason. They’re trying to offer praise but unconsciously they believe I got helped by the system and not because I got straight A’s in high school and 1400 on my SAT. Its when two impeccably dressed men, one white one black are having a business lunch and the waiter brings the check to the white side because they assume he’s in charge (when it was actually the other way around). The server isn’t racist, there just are some preconceptions that are in his mind.

To Reiterate! Joe Wilson was not trying to be a racist or make a racist remark when he yelled at the President. BUT the fact that he did can lead a great many people to the conclusion that IN THE MOMENT he felt what he was doing was fine and justified. For a split second he didn... Read More’t see the President of the United States he saw a guy fit to be yelled at. That could be completely wrong, but to take into account that Joe Wilson comes from South Carolina where black people in many places are expected to know their place. South Carolina where the Confederate Flag still flies and Joe Wilson belongs to the organization dedicated to making sure it stays that way. The same Joe Wilson that was forced to apologize after he wrongly attacked Essie Mae Washington-Williams after she came forward as the illegitimate black daughter of Strom Thurmond.

The place of a black man is the place of the man himself. In the case of Obama, that place is POTUS. In the case of Clarence Thomas, that place is SCOTUS. And in the case of O.J., that place is prison. Judging people by race is perverse, stupid, and cruel. Just take people one by one, and take the time to know them by the content of their character. It comes out soon enough, after all.

But what of affirmative action? As initially advertised and explained, it's a fine thing. You seek out promising candidates for advancement that you might have overlooked if you sort of went with the flow and looked only in places you're accustomed to looking. Great.

Today, affirmative action has two methods to advance minorities. The one is to seek out talent that might normally have been overlooked. But the other is to put a thumb in the scales. Medical schools that routinely admit affirmative action candidates with MCAT scores at the 50th percentile of the pool, while routinely denying admission to any white or asian candidate whose score is only at the 80th percentile, are not interested in the relative merits of candidate A and B. They are awarding admissions based on the color of the applicant's skin.

As to Wilson, the place of a member of an audience at an address by the president to Congress is in his seat. There will be time enough later to make the charge of `liar', and make it with some supporting proof. If proof is not found, there will be time to cool off and decide not to make an unsupportable charge.

As to whether the guy bringing the check is a racist, hey, he has to pick somebody. Do you get the check half the time? No racism. Do you never get it? Perhaps the waiters believes that society is entirely racist and so assume that whether or not you're the better man, there's no way you're actually the number 1 member of the party dining. Do black waiters bring you the check more often than white? If true, then I'm afraid you do have a case.

343 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:55:14pm

re: #336 PSGInfinity

1) Wrong.
2If you say so.
3) Wrong. If you can't see the difference between those trying to *save* America and those trying to *destroy* it, there's nothing to say to you.
4) I wear my biases openly. You hide from yours. Whose eyes are closed?
5) Snort. God help the facile...

Oh that's just amusing, do you not realise that the morons over the last 8 years also thought they were trying to "save" America.

344 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:56:25pm

re: #330 Bagua

I see, so that makes it just dandy to display such public offense to a sitting US President? Pathetic.

As if a sitting President couldn't be a fascist at heart?

Do you really believe that Barack ["We are the change we've been waiting for..." "Get in their faces..." "A force as strong as the military..." 'cozy up to Ahmadinejad while hammering the Hondurans'] Obama really has America's best interests at heart?

345 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:56:37pm

If you screen grab from the youtube vids you can get quite a few more, but I've got a freezer to repair. Back later.

346 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:58:36pm

re: #338 Slumbering Behemoth

Sure, whatever. You make sure and let me know when he goes on a genocidal campaign of ethnic cleansing, 'kay.

At that point it'll be too late. A likelier scenario would involve a US military-led coup. Still likelier is that his worst impulses get restrained peacefully. By people who occasionally say intemperate things...

347 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:58:36pm

Nirther/sekrit muslim sign

348 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:58:56pm

re: #344 PSGInfinity

As if a sitting President couldn't be a fascist at heart?

Do you really believe that Barack ["We are the change we've been waiting for..." "Get in their faces..." "A force as strong as the military..." 'cozy up to Ahmadinejad while hammering the Hondurans'] Obama really has America's best interests at heart?

"Fascist at heart" ? Now you are able to read President Obama's heart?

I see from your icon you say "accepting insanity is the first step to reality" I see you have taken that step. Excuse me if I choose sanity, on all sides.

349 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:59:03pm

re: #341 KingKenrod

good ones but the waffleimages ones won't link.

350 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:59:11pm

re: #343 Bagua

Oh that's just amusing, do you not realise that the morons over the last 8 years also thought they were trying to "save" America.

Which morons?

351 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:59:42pm

Another

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

352 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:59:45pm

re: #350 PSGInfinity

Which morons?

Those on the left.

353 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:00:00pm

re: #349 Killgore Trout

good ones but the waffleimages ones won't link.

Just hit the Refresh button and they'll load. They're blocking outside referrals to stop hotlinking.

354 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:00:17pm

re: #348 Bagua

"Fascist at heart" ? Now you are able to read President Obama's heart?

I see from your icon you say "accepting insanity is the first step to reality" I see you have taken that step. Excuse me if I choose sanity, on all sides.

HA! GOTCHA! You completely missed the point!
Bwhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahah!!!
Thanks!

355 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:01:01pm

And another

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

356 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:01:48pm

I have to do insurance paperwork --

Have a great day all!

357 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:02:01pm

Yet more

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

358 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:02:15pm

re: #354 PSGInfinity

HA! GOTCHA! You completely missed the point!
Bwhahahahahahhahahahahhahahahahahahah!!!
Thanks!

And you missed my pun.

359 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:02:16pm

re: #352 Bagua

Those on the left.

No, they *weren't* trying to save America. Oh, the clueless Liberals may have been, but not the Leftists. They know *exactly* what they're doing...

360 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:02:42pm

Not fascism but I spotted the first right wing extremist drum circle

361 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:03:05pm

re: #358 Bagua

And you missed my pun.

My comment took you pun into account.

362 MisterCookie  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:03:27pm

re: #346 PSGInfinity

Are you crazy? Do you have any actual evidence of these "worst impulses", other than him forwarding policies you don't like?

363 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:03:31pm

re: #340 Killgore Trout

...and not a black person in sight. Stormfront loves this stuff.

I'm really proud of you for having stuck to your guns when so many people were jumping on you for telling the truth. This display yesterday was disgusting, and it's pretty much vindicated you. Cheers.

364 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:03:56pm

re: #360 Killgore Trout

Not fascism but I spotted the first right wing extremist drum circle

Not much of a "circle". I guess they need to practice some more.

365 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:03:59pm

re: #257 arethusa

Isn't Powerline also arguing for greater crowds at the march than the ca. 70000 or so most organizations are now saying? So by their math, hundreds or thousands of signs are infinitesimal when they think several hundred thousand people showed up...allowing them to diminish the charges of racism.

70k? heh.

366 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:04:33pm

re: #363 Sharmuta

Cheers!
;)

367 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:04:48pm

Has this one come up yet?

368 TheQuis  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:04:55pm

re: #337 SixDegrees

Not buying.

what?

369 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:05:02pm

re: #334 Charles

Another Confederate flag:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]

If asked why he brought a confederate flag, I wonder what the chances are that he'd say its all about innocent pride in southern heritage or words to that effect.

370 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:05:57pm

Nice little racist here

371 NoWhereAlaska  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:06:06pm

re: #327 SixDegrees

We already did. The DC Fire Department estimated 50k - 70k. I see no reason at all to doubt them.

I can't find who or where that estimate was made. Got a link?
The only 'factual' (if true) statement was that the Mall is 125 Hectares, or 1.25 million square meters. Give the look of the crowd it could conceivably be close to a million.

372 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:06:13pm

re: #366 Killgore Trout

I'm really proud to count you as my friend, KT.

373 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:06:31pm

re: #367 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm not sure, they're all starting to run together.

374 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:07:06pm

re: #369 Flyers1974

There's a palm tree on the other side, I wonder where that flag is from.

375 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:07:08pm

re: #365 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

70k? heh.

"Heh" is right. Going by these pictures, there were far less than 70k there.

You did notice that they're all of exactly the same area, taken from different angles, yes?

Please provide an authoritative estimate, based on these images if you like, and not on wishful thinking.

376 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:07:14pm

re: #372 Sharmuta

Likewise.

377 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:07:52pm

re: #281 PSGInfinity

You seem to be suffering from the effects of a rectocranial inversion, IMNSHO.

/don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining...

378 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:07:57pm

Another racist

379 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:08:06pm

re: #374 Killgore Trout

There's a palm tree on the other side, I wonder where that flag is from.

That's the Palmetto tree- South Carolina.

380 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:08:10pm

re: #282 avanti

Link to the consensus estimate of nearly a million ?

Here's a good example...

381 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:08:21pm

re: #371 NoWhereAlaska

I can't find who or where that estimate was made. Got a link?
The only 'factual' (if true) statement was that the Mall is 125 Hectares, or 1.25 million square meters. Give the look of the crowd it could conceivably be close to a million.

Charles has a whole thread devoted to it, downstairs.

382 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:08:29pm

re: #359 PSGInfinity

No, they *weren't* trying to save America. Oh, the clueless Liberals may have been, but not the Leftists. They know *exactly* what they're doing...

Gee, it must be great to be so clairvoyant that you can see into everyone's heart and know their intentions. The morons on the left comparing Bush to Hitler" bad, bad intentions, the morons on the right comparing President Obama to Hitler, good, good intentions. That appear to be your opinion.

My opinion is they are both wackos, as are those who make excuses for one side while condemning the other.

But rant away, for my part, I will continue to show respect to my President and hold both sides to task if they are out of order.

383 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:08:43pm

re: #365 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

70k? heh.

Looks like about 70,000 to me. 100,000 tops. Nowhere near a million. Two million is laughable.

384 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:10:03pm

re: #379 Sharmuta

That's the Palmetto tree- South Carolina.


Ah, thanks.
They also use a lot of revolutionary war flags. Many of them I don't recognize.

385 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:10:54pm

re: #380 PSGInfinity

Here's a good example...

Sadly, Pajamas Media is hardly a reputable news source.

And a blog post on their site? Even less so.

Any links to, you know, official sources that actually do this sort of thing for a living? Like the DC Fire Department?

386 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:11:06pm

Here's what I've found so far. Others have found some of these along the way:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

387 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:11:27pm

re: #377 talon_262

You seem to be suffering from the effects of a rectocranial inversion, [IMNSHO ain't that the truth] /don't piss on my shoe and tell me it's raining...

Census of all the signs.

388 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:11:33pm

re: #383 Charles

Looks like about 70,000 to me. 100,000 tops. Nowhere near a million. Two million is laughable.

Kind of laughable to think 2 million people could afford to make the trip, imo.

389 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:12:48pm

re: #344 PSGInfinity

As if a sitting President couldn't be a fascist at heart?

Do you really believe that Barack ["We are the change we've been waiting for..." "Get in their faces..." "A force as strong as the military..." 'cozy up to Ahmadinejad while hammering the Hondurans'] Obama really has America's best interests at heart?

I think I hear the Flouncemobile warming up, because you have got to be halfway out there to it...

390 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:13:29pm

I think this guy is just a Pink Floyd fan, or something.

391 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:13:42pm

I'll put $1.73 on post 461.

392 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:13:42pm

re: #386 Gus 802

Here's what I've found so far. Others have found some of these along the way:

[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
[Link: www.flickr.com...]

Good grief.
Those are disgusting, absolutely disgusting.
I'm at a complete loss for words. Where are these idiots coming from?

393 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:13:53pm

re: #385 SixDegrees

Sadly, Pajamas Media is hardly a reputable news source. And a blog post on their site? Even less so. Any links to, you know, official sources that actually do this sort of thing for a living? Like the DC Fire Department?

Newsflash: Everybody has a bias.
Newsflash2: To live in DC is to be political. Other sites quote police reports in the mid-high six figures range. More kindly, there's is the low estimate.

394 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:14:55pm

And I thought the "Million Man March" arithmetic was sketchy.

395 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:15:11pm

re: #392 reine.de.tout

Good grief.
Those are disgusting, absolutely disgusting.
I'm at a complete loss for words. Where are these idiots coming from?

From all over the place I imagine. Geographically I would guess most people would be from within driving distance. Ideologically somewhere in the sewer.

396 Hassen bin Sober  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:15:15pm

the crowd size matters because the implication of these awful signs being a majority of those attending matters - and I was there for 5 hours yesterday, and I looked at all the signage that I could - about a quarter of them, high estimate, were offensive to me _ Nazi, or Confederate or implied threats - purely anecdotal, granted - the crowd was packed onto Penna Ave, never occupied the Mall area except for overflow from the Reflecting Pond that spilled towards the Mall, and all along Penna Ave the south egress streets were blocked by police, with no complaint - the density was all along Penna Ave, the the north onto Constitution Ave after it crosses Penna, and behind the pond up to the Capitol Steps - there ain't no way, no how that this was a 70-80K crowd - it was 5-10 times that, easy. I walked it back and forth - there were 2K steady state at the toilets, all day long - that area was no more than 1/5 an acre - the of the area filled on Penna went back to 11th and 12th streets. 70K is hogwash.

397 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:15:29pm

re: #393 PSGInfinity

Newsflash: Everybody has a bias.
Newsflash2: To live in DC is to be political. Other sites quote police reports in the mid-high six figures range. More kindly, there's is the low estimate.

So, everybody has bias so it's just ok then?

In that case, why do you object to the bias on the Left while excusing the bias on the right? Oh yes, I know, because you, like everyone, is biased.

398 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:15:41pm

I can see it now:

"The 9/12 Million Man Militia March!"

Somehow 'The 78,265 Man Militia March' doesn't have the same smooth roll of the tongue.

399 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:16:00pm

re: #392 reine.de.tout

Good grief.
Those are disgusting, absolutely disgusting.
I'm at a complete loss for words. Where are these idiots coming from?

I feel like I'm watching the gop in it's death throws. This is really disgusting, and I don't know how they think this could be appealing to the rest of the right. They're alienating me, and I don't think I'm the only one.

400 MJ  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:16:15pm

re: #383 Charles

Looks like about 70,000 to me. 100,000 tops. Nowhere near a million. Two million is laughable.


Estimating a crowd.
Check the graphic:

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

401 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:16:22pm

re: #382 Bagua

Gee, it must be great to be so clairvoyant that you can see into everyone's heart and know their intentions. The morons on the left comparing Bush to Hitler" bad, bad intentions, the morons on the right comparing President Obama to Hitler, good, good intentions. [SNIP]

I'm not reading their heart; their own words will do quite nicely. Don't believe me? Fine, ask David Horowitz. For starters...

402 KernelPanic  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:16:42pm

I'm down with this meme:
[Link: lookatthisfuckingteabagger.tumblr.com...]

403 MisterCookie  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:16:44pm

re: #387 PSGInfinity

Where the frak were you calling for a census of all the signs when the left pulled this shit? Double standard much?

404 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:17:17pm

re: #390 Slumbering Behemoth

I think this guy is just a Pink Floyd fan, or something.

And the person with him on his right as well.

405 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:17:37pm

re: #388 Sharmuta

Kind of laughable to think 2 million people could afford to make the trip, imo.

Also - I've said this before, but it bears repeating - 0bama's inauguration drew a crowd estimated at between 1.5 and 1.8 million. And it utterly crippled DC, despite weeks of advance notice and planning. Yesterday, no significant disruptions, and couple of co-workers making an unplanned business trip had no difficulty locating rooms at the last moment Thursday - a minor rarity even when nothing unusual is going on in the area.

The vehement denial of reality is all too familiar - it's precisely the BS flung by International ANSWER and similar groups when their crowd estimates - typically five to eight times reality - were questioned. The only real difference appears to be the magnitude of inflation being employed - the Birchers are claiming there were between 20 and 30 times as many people there as actually showed up.

Why not just insist that there were 300 million people there? Once you've decided to depart from reality completely, the distance doesn't really matter all that much - it's the desire to leave in the first place that's bizarre.

406 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:17:38pm

re: #400 MJ

Estimating a crowd.
Check the graphic:

[Link: www.usatoday.com...]

Nice backgrounder by USA Today. Thank you.

407 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:17:39pm

re: #386 Gus 802

I think you're right that this one has to be the wackiest one so far.

408 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:18:35pm

re: #399 Sharmuta

I feel like I'm watching the gop in it's death throws. This is really disgusting, and I don't know how they think this could be appealing to the rest of the right. They're alienating me, and I don't think I'm the only one.

That sort of behavior is definitely alienating, to anyone with any sense of propriety.

I don't know where I 'belong' anymore -

Like you, I do know I appreciate Killgore's incessant harping on the "tea parties" early on, gave me a clue before I got sucked in.

409 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:18:54pm

re: #360 Killgore Trout

Not fascism but I spotted the first right wing extremist drum circle

Not fat enough to be a circle all by himself.

410 Gus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:19:06pm

re: #407 Killgore Trout

I think you're right that this one has to be the wackiest one so far.

Yeah, you can tell by the style that it was done by someone that is deranged. They put some time into it and it's almost arranged like a memorial of sorts.

411 doubter4444  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:19:13pm

re: #269 PSGInfinity

Dozens.

75,000 (low estimate)
500,000 - 1,000,000 (consensus estimate)
(I live in DCTown and talked with returning marches yesterday)
2,000,000 (high estimate)

Perspective.

There were not 500,00 to 1,000,000 there.
CNN!! claims 10s of thousands.
But they are in the leftist bag and bla, bla, bla...

That you claim there were that many at the rally, I think makes it pretty obvious that you'll not really see things in an objective light.

412 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:19:20pm

re: #388 Sharmuta

Kind of laughable to think 2 million people could afford to make the trip, imo.

You'd think that the right would want to deflate that figure, not inflate it.

413 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:19:21pm

re: #393 PSGInfinity

Newsflash: Everybody has a bias.
Newsflash2: To live in DC is to be political. Other sites quote police reports in the mid-high six figures range. More kindly, there's is the low estimate.

Too bad none of those sites actually know how to do such estimation.

Love the contention that the DC Fire Department is part of a conspiracy, by the way. Make sure you snug up your AFDB.

414 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:19:54pm

re: #401 PSGInfinity

I'm not reading their heart; their own words will do quite nicely. Don't believe me? Fine, ask David Horowitz. For starters...

Ask David Horowitz? That's an answer? If you can not make a valid point yourself why bother posting?

415 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:19:54pm

re: #396 Hassen bin Sober

the crowd size matters because the implication of these awful signs being a majority of those attending matters - and I was there for 5 hours yesterday, and I looked at all the signage that I could - about a quarter of them, high estimate, were offensive to me _ Nazi, or Confederate or implied threats - purely anecdotal, granted ...

Just a few crazies, huh? So if i was a math major and looking like 30% of people had signs, 25% were offensive, million people:

75,000 nut bags with offensive signs.

Notta veddy goo...

416 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:20:20pm

re: #408 reine.de.tout

Thanks, but I think you are one of the few people that were persuaded. I think we lost a lot of lizards over this.

417 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:20:44pm

re: #408 reine.de.tout

That sort of behavior is definitely alienating, to anyone with any sense of propriety.

I don't know where I 'belong' anymore -

Like you, I do know I appreciate Killgore's incessant harping on the "tea parties" early on, gave me a clue before I got sucked in.

I know where I don't belong- and that's with a bunch of bigots.

418 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:22:07pm

re: #403 MisterCookie

Where the frak were you calling for a census of all the signs when the left pulled this shit? Double standard much?

Nope. You could see in wide shots that the craziness there was the norm. You must go deep into the crowd to find the crazy yesterday - there is a difference.

419 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:22:07pm

re: #396 Hassen bin Sober

I don't understand your point, are you saying that because it was a 1/4 of the signs and not the majority this is ok? If 1/4 of the signs were insane than that is extremely worrying, and if you are right and the estimates of the crowd are low, then we are talking insanity on a massive scale.

420 Neutral President  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:22:13pm

Yesterday I had to drive up to LA to run some errands. On the way I stopped in Orange County to eat breakfast. Getting off I-5 I see a big pink sign "912 Tea Party ->".

I stopped and ate, didn't see any kooks anywhere or overhear any ridiculous conversations. When I was leaving, was when I saw it. Unfortunately it drove by too fast for me to get a picture of it. There was a van with I huge sign on it, with obligatory American flag that said: "ABORT ALL CZARS!"

I bet the driver was "pro life" too. I'm starting to get really weary of all of this.

421 Flyers1974  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:22:56pm

re: #407 Killgore Trout

I think you're right that this one has to be the wackiest one so far.

I wonder if there is a baby in that baby carriage.

422 im_gumby_damnit  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:23:00pm

On an unrelated note, both of my fantasy football teams are getting hammered at the moment. Why do I torment myself so.

423 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:23:25pm

re: #416 Killgore Trout

Thanks, but I think you are one of the few people that were persuaded. I think we lost a lot of lizards over this.

I never went to a tea party because of your research. And if we lost lizards who want to support all the crap being exposed on this thread- good riddance, I say.

424 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:23:27pm

re: #403 MisterCookie

Where the frak were you calling for a census of all the signs when the left pulled this shit? Double standard much?

re: #418 PSGInfinity

Nope. You could see in wide shots that the craziness there was the norm. You must go deep into the crowd to find the crazy yesterday - there is a difference.

The double standard lies in how the Right is treated.

425 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:23:55pm

re: #407 Killgore Trout

I think you're right that this one has to be the wackiest one so far.

That's an 8.7 on the WTF? Scale.

426 MisterCookie  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:24:03pm

Partisan PSGInfinity = new Partisan();

PSGInfinity.bullshitComment();
PSGInfinity.flounce(true);

Seem correct? My Java is a little rusty.

427 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:24:25pm

re: #393 PSGInfinity

Newsflash: Everybody has a bias.
Newsflash2: To live in DC is to be political. Other sites quote police reports in the mid-high six figures range. More kindly, there's is the low estimate.

Until someone with authority on the scene (DCFD, DCPD, US Park Police) gives a definitive estimate, this business about the DC Tea Party attendance numbers is all academics. However, if you're gonna try to say that the DCFD, DCPD, or the Park Police are gonna try to cook the numbers for President Obama's benefit, I'll say that you're f**ked in the head...

428 NoWhereAlaska  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:24:28pm

Here is a link attributed to the police at 1.2 million.

429 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:24:32pm

re: #412 Flyers1974

You'd think that the right would want to deflate that figure, not inflate it.

Absolutely. 70k whackadoos is disturbing, but still within the realm of being manageable. Hundreds of thousands spells doom for Conservatism, and quite possibly the Republic now that both sides seem to be leaping to the bizarre conclusion that when their side loses, there isn't a legitimate government in place.

430 Chekote  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:24:33pm

re: #399 Sharmuta

I am there with you. A poster at NM suggested that the best thing for the GOP is to nominate Palin in 2012. Lose in a 49 state landslide. Maybe then people will come back to their senses. I find this religious pandering alienating too. How about you?

[Link: www.lifesitenews.com...]

431 MisterCookie  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:25:02pm

re: #424 PSGInfinity

Really? Seems like the people posting pics had an easy enough time finding offensive signs.

432 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:25:05pm

re: #424 PSGInfinity

The double standard lies in how the Right is treated.

The "double standard" is writ large on all of your posts on this thread.

433 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:25:29pm

re: #414 Bagua

Ask David Horowitz? That's an answer? If you can not make a valid point yourself why bother posting?

You know full well that to explicate what the Left has planned, and stated, for America would take books. David is simply a placeholder in an on-the-fly blog post.

434 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:25:32pm

re: #375 SixDegrees

"Heh" is right. Going by these pictures, there were far less than 70k there.

You did notice that they're all of exactly the same area, taken from different angles, yes?

Please provide an authoritative estimate, based on these images if you like, and not on wishful thinking.

Look-up some pictures from The Won's inauguration; to me, that looks like one helluva lot more than 70k.

435 Hassen bin Sober  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:25:58pm

re: #415 BigPapa

i agree - almost everyone has a sign or a don't tread on me flag, or an American Flag, though - apart from that, the individually made signs were everywhere, and I would say that, yep, 1/4 of them were either Nazi imagery, or implied threat - the joker imagery doesn't bother me personally

I don't think it was a million - I think very close to 500,000 - and of that, if 100,000 had individually-made signs, then 25,000 of them were not what I find decent and appropriate, at all - believe me though - there were hundreds of thousands of entirely decent free-thinking people there, and I was glad to be one of them.

436 midwestgak  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:26:04pm

re: #428 NoWhereAlaska

Here is a link attributed to the police at 1.2 million.

Do the police get paid by the head count?/

437 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:26:29pm

re: #426 MisterCookie

Partisan PSGInfinity = new Partisan();

PSGInfinity.bullshitComment();
PSGInfinity.flounce(true);

Seem correct? My Java is a little rusty.

Lovely, I will add your code to Bagua's Flouncomete*

* new and improved.

438 Neutral President  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:26:56pm

re: #426 MisterCookie

Partisan PSGInfinity = new Partisan();

PSGInfinity.bullshitComment();
PSGInfinity.flounce(true);

Seem correct? My Java is a little rusty.

That's correct in Java, C++, C#, and several other languages I'm sure. Probably should have passed some arguments to the constructor though.

439 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:27:02pm

I have a feeling it won't be long before we know what a right wing furry protester looks like. I'm guessing some kind of fucked up bald eagle most likely. Definitely not cuddly.

440 avanti  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:27:03pm

re: #363 Sharmuta

I'm really proud of you for having stuck to your guns when so many people were jumping on you for telling the truth. This display yesterday was disgusting, and it's pretty much vindicated you. Cheers.

I agree, but go to most any other conservative sites and you'll see the same signs posted with positive comments, and talk of crowds larger than the inaugural.
Only a handful of conservative sites are rational as of today.
Maybe O'reily will condemn those as hate sites just as he did with those on the left when they went over the top./

441 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:27:59pm

Is that Stinky's new YouNix FlounceModule?

442 doubter4444  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:28:05pm

re: #344 PSGInfinity

As if a sitting President couldn't be a fascist at heart?

Do you really believe that Barack ["We are the change we've been waiting for..." "Get in their faces..." "A force as strong as the military..." 'cozy up to Ahmadinejad while hammering the Hondurans'] Obama really has America's best interests at heart?

Yes, you dick, I do.
You may not agree with him, may hate him, may think he's dangerously naive, don't care, but to think think that he is WILLFULLY trying to destroy the country is insane.
And if you really feel that, than what's to stop you from doing something about it?
Or some other crazy?
It's people like you that will be the abettors when this blows up.
Fuck you and your hatred of what America really is.

443 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:28:15pm

re: #432 Bagua

The "double standard" is writ large on all of your posts on this thread.

Happily. One side of this Civil War wishes to destroy Judaism, Christianity, Western Civilization, America and Israel. The other side seeks to prevent this.
(That would be the Left and the Right, respectively)

444 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:28:35pm

re: #428 NoWhereAlaska

Here is a link attributed to the police at 1.2 million.

No, it isn't. It's an undocumented statement without any reference to back itself up. It doesn't even bother to mention which of the "local police agencies" provided such estimates. If any actually did.

But as soon as you turn up the actual source for such estimates, please post them.

445 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:28:37pm

oops:

Flouncometer*


*Lithium Carbonate batteries.

446 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:28:42pm

PSGInfinity-

Horowitz- lmao. Former radical marxist. He's still a radical. We should ditch his ass- he's part of the problem with his own version of Rules for Radicals he published in the 90s. Funding Robert Spencer, and other crypto-fascist events- and you want to hold him up an ally? You can have him.

447 doubter4444  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:29:34pm

re: #424 PSGInfinity

The double standard lies in how the Right is treated.

Oh cry me a fucking river.

448 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:29:38pm

re: #428 NoWhereAlaska

Here is a link attributed to the police at 1.2 million.

Saturday's "Tea Party" rally in Washington, D.C. far exceeded almost all expectations. Local police agencies estimated around 1.2 million people attended the rally, but several news outlets, including ABC and Fox News, said the crowd was nearly double that, with an estimated 2 million people in attendance.

Which local police agencies? Why is no one in command at any agency quoted?

449 KronoGhazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:29:38pm

re: #443 PSGInfinity

Happily. One side of this Civil War wishes to destroy Judaism, Christianity, Western Civilization, America and Israel. The other side seeks to prevent this.
(That would be the Left and the Right, respectively)

'It's Wah! Wah I tell you!'

450 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:29:55pm

Complaints of the "double standards" are high-larious, when wacky protest photos of the left are used as a broad brush to paint all democrats, and the wacky protest photos of the right are excused away or swept under the rug by those making the complaints.

451 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:30:02pm

re: #426 MisterCookie

Partisan PSGInfinity = old Partisan();

PSGInfinity.bullshitComment();
PSGInfinity.flounce(true);

Seem correct? My Java is a little rusty.

re: #438 ArchangelMichael

That's correct in Java, C++, C#, and several other languages I'm sure. Probably should have passed some arguments to the constructor though.

Been a partisan for a long, long time. Had a lot of fun on this thread, BTW.

452 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:30:04pm

re: #428 NoWhereAlaska

Here is a link attributed to the police at 1.2 million.

Those claims are false. ABC News has already issued a statement about it.

453 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:30:06pm

re: #431 MisterCookie

Really? Seems like the people posting pics had an easy enough time finding offensive signs.

It's basically just a matter of pointing your camera in a random direction and tripping the shutter.

454 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:30:10pm

re: #443 PSGInfinity

Happily. One side of this Civil War wishes to destroy Judaism, Christianity, Western Civilization, America and Israel. The other side seeks to prevent this.
(That would be the Left and the Right, respectively)


Civil War?, I had thought you where merely biased, now I see you are unhinged.

455 Hassen bin Sober  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:30:38pm

re: #419 Bagua

I never said that anything was OK - this is politics and people who have time and inclination to protest are a self-selecting lot, keep that in mind too. I think there was something on the order of 25K signs there yesterday that a reasonable person could find quite offensive - but not out of a total gathering of 70K people - a much larger, substantially larger crowd than that. And that still doesn't make it OK.

456 MisterCookie  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:31:39pm

re: #438 ArchangelMichael

I was going to do a big thing on "public class partisan" but couldn't remember the proper synatax for defining methods. Oh well.

457 SixDegrees  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:32:03pm

re: #448 MandyManners

Saturday's "Tea Party" rally in Washington, D.C. far exceeded almost all expectations. Local police agencies estimated around 1.2 million people attended the rally, but several news outlets, including ABC and Fox News, said the crowd was nearly double that, with an estimated 2 million people in attendance.

Which local police agencies? Why is no one in command at any agency quoted?

Also, ABC News never made any such statement. They have published a rather terse condemnation at being severely misquoted. See the threads below for links and further discussion.

458 fizzlogic  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:32:13pm

re: #442 doubter4444

PSG has already predicted in the previous thread that millions, if not dozens of millions, are going to die when the civil war heats up.

459 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:32:39pm

re: #417 Sharmuta

I know where I don't belong- and that's with a bunch of bigots.

Well, yep, that's exactly what I meant. Those folks do not represent me.

460 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:32:56pm

re: #383 Charles

Looks like about 70,000 to me. 100,000 tops. Nowhere near a million. Two million is laughable.

You and I differ, I'd guess 750k+ from just what I've seen - 2M, nupe.

461 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:33:23pm

re: #455 Hassen bin Sober

Thanks for the clarification. If your estimate is correct, then over 6,000 lunatic signage is a worrying statistic, one had hoped it was not so prevalent.

462 doubter4444  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:33:40pm

re: #443 PSGInfinity

Happily. One side of this Civil War wishes to destroy Judaism, Christianity, Western Civilization, America and Israel. The other side seeks to prevent this.
(That would be the Left and the Right, respectively)

That is hate speech, as far as I'm concerned.
You think your version is better than others?
Well, fuck off buddy, this is America, people who disagree with you are not the enemy, and by disagreeing with you and your precious fantasy's they are not bring down western civilization.
You however, with your intolerance and bigotry could do just that.

463 Neutral President  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:34:34pm

re: #440 avanti

I agree, but go to most any other conservative sites and you'll see the same signs posted with positive comments, and talk of crowds larger than the inaugural.
Only a handful of conservative sites are rational as of today.
Maybe O'reily will condemn those as hate sites just as he did with those on the left when they went over the top./

There are people in this thread doing that unfortunately.

When the left had political rallies and protests, the organizers, the MSM, and leftist blogs all grossly over-exaggered the crowd size. Their opponents would always lowball the number. The honest called bullshit.

When the right does it, the organizers, talk radio, and right-wing blogs are now grossly over-exaggerting the crowd size. The left will probably lowball the crowd size. The honest, like most of us, will call bullshit and try to get to the truth.

This "well they did so now it's our turn" crap that the GOP is doing is really tiresome and embarrassing.

464 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:34:37pm

re: #458 trendsurfer

PSG has already predicted in the previous thread that millions, if not dozens of millions, are going to die when the civil war heats up.

Really? I see my pun about "accepting insanity" was actually accurate.

465 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:34:42pm

re: #443 PSGInfinity

Happily. One side of this Civil War wishes to destroy Judaism, Christianity, Western Civilization, America and Israel. The other side seeks to prevent this.
(That would be the Left and the Right, respectively)

What a hilariously stupid post.

466 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:35:13pm

re: #442 doubter4444

Yes, you dick, I do. You may not agree with him, may hate him, may think he's dangerously naive, don't care, but to think think that he is WILLFULLY trying to destroy the country is insane. And if you really feel that, than what's to stop you from doing something about it? Or some other crazy?
It's people like you that will be the abettors when this blows up. Fuck you and your hatred of what America really is.

Persistent health issues kept me from attending yesterday, BTW. The real America expressed itself yesterday. And today, here on this blog. As far as the future, well, we'll just have to wait and see. As I said up-thread, this'll likely work itself out peaceably.

467 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:37:42pm

re: #466 PSGInfinity

Persistent [Mental] health issues kept me from attending yesterday, BTW. The real America expressed itself yesterday. And today, here on this blog. As far as the future, well, we'll just have to wait and see. As I said up-thread, this'll likely work itself out peaceably.


* fixed it for you. I suggest you speak with your doctor and take your meds.

468 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:37:54pm

re: #458 trendsurfer

PSG has already predicted in the previous thread that millions, if not dozens of millions, are going to die when the civil war heats up.

Or, only dozens. We'll see; the 7-8 figure number is far less likely, and certain escalaltions are required for that to happen. The likeliest of *those* involves one side or the other raiding a nuclear arsenal.

469 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:38:46pm

re: #467 Bagua

* fixed it for you. I suggest you speak with your doctor and take your meds.

Which reminds me - my cholesterol prescription's coming due. :)

470 doubter4444  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:39:02pm

re: #458 trendsurfer

PSG has already predicted in the previous thread that millions, if not dozens of millions, are going to die when the civil war heats up.

Oh lord.
I wonder if he's an end times kind of guy too... seems like he's rooting for the Apocalypse.

471 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:39:22pm

re: #466 PSGInfinity

Persistent health issues kept me from attending yesterday, BTW. The real America expressed itself yesterday. And today, here on this blog. As far as the future, well, we'll just have to wait and see. As I said up-thread, this'll likely work itself out peaceably.

They're doing amazing things in looney bins these days, PSG. You should check into one ASAP.

472 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:41:36pm

re: #469 PSGInfinity

Which reminds me - my cholesterol prescription's coming due. :)

I'm referring to the psychiatric medication you have apparently been avoiding and you doctor has no doubt been recommending.

No pun intended. You have a very distorted view of reality.

473 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:44:32pm
474 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:47:58pm

re: #440 avanti

I agree, but go to most any other conservative sites and you'll see the same signs posted with positive comments, and talk of crowds larger than the inaugural.
Only a handful of conservative sites are rational as of today.
Maybe O'reily will condemn those as hate sites just as he did with those on the left when they went over the top.re: #443 PSGInfinity

Happily. One side of this Civil War wishes to destroy Judaism, Christianity, Western Civilization, America and Israel. The other side seeks to prevent this.
(That would be the Left and the Right, respectively)

/

Man, this pile of cognitive dissonant crap you just threw up here is making me laugh! You're telling us that the Right-Wing Truth and Righteousness Brigade® (that you're apparently a part of) is the only ones standing between us and ruin brought on by Obama and his minions?

Getthefuckouttahere...

/why do I hear a cuckoo bird in your general direction?

475 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:48:02pm

re: #473 PSGInfinity

Some truths are more true than others - Here's a good post on Rene Descarte's three words that could destroy Western Civilization, for example.

d4444, this is what blogging is about...

I don't think anyone here is interested in reading a blog that links to a hate site that slanders Charles in its latest post.

476 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:48:50pm

All these tea parties are doing is driving sane Republicans like me away from the Republican party.

477 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:49:24pm

re: #465 Jimmah

What a hilariously stupid post.

Actually, it's an accurate summary of a situation that would take books to explicate.
The overreaction of, and on, this thread was indeed hilarious.

478 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:50:39pm

re: #474 talon_262

Sorry, avanti...that post was meant for PSGInfinity.

479 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:51:24pm

re: #477 PSGInfinity

Actually, it's an accurate summary of a situation that would take books to explicate.
The overreaction of, and on, this thread was indeed hilarious.

You are deranged. Get medicine.

480 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:52:55pm

re: #478 talon_262

Sorry, avanti...that post was meant for PSGInfinity.

Here's hoping avanti takes no offense. As far as the cuckoo, it could be anything from a nearby clock to a sound from the TV...

481 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:53:40pm

re: #473 PSGInfinity

Some truths are more true than others - Here's a good post on Rene Descarte's three words that could destroy Western Civilization, for example.

d4444, this is what blogging is about...

This site PSG links to is "One COsmos" whose latest post is "Talkin' Charles Johnson Paranoid Blues." A demented and slanderous rant against this blogs owner.

482 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:56:33pm

re: #472 Bagua

I'm referring to the psychiatric medication you have apparently been avoiding and you doctor has no doubt been recommending. No pun intended. You have a very distorted view of reality.

I've seen people in actual need of such meds. That you, Jimmah, talon, and others would reach for it suggests that you can't differentiate a difference of interpretation (even though I'm right) with actual psychotic symptoms.

It's a form of Godwin'ing.

483 doubter4444  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:57:19pm

re: #477 PSGInfinity

Actually, it's an accurate summary of a situation that would take books to explicate.
The overreaction of, and on, this thread was indeed hilarious.

So, your a troll.
Can I sell you a bridge to hang out under?

484 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:59:36pm
485 avanti  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 2:59:54pm

re: #478 talon_262

Sorry, avanti...that post was meant for PSGInfinity.

No harm, no foul.:)

486 Hassen bin Sober  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:01:35pm

That event yesterday was populated by many, many thousands of decent and honorable Americans - I spoke to hundreds of them and was proud to be among them - there were heroin dealers at Woodstock too, you know. These things, particularly in their early stages, are self-selecting mechanisms, and the attention seekers know how to get the attention in a media age. I walked for a bit with 3 Sisters of Mercy, in habits - legit, not spoofing, I promise. You can decry it all you wish - millions of Americans want less Federal government, a lot less government - particularly when led and advised by radical leftists. Particularly. And I, and many of my cohort, were enraged when Pres. Bush pushed through a prescription drug plan. Yet another socialist ponzi-scheme, where the base of the ponzi-pyramid is shrinking (compared to the altitude being achieved) and the sides are getting vertical. This is all going to break whether you approve of the signage or not. And it's not OK, left or right, to assault or threaten, coy or not. It's wrong and I saw it being sanctioned yesterday, and I sanctioned it a few times yesterday.

487 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:01:44pm

re: #483 doubter4444

So, your a troll.
Can I sell you a bridge to hang out under?

Troll: Check the account create dates for both of us. I stand by my body of work - impish sense of humor and all.
SQ: Does the bridge have a good view of the East River?

488 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:03:22pm

re: #482 PSGInfinity

I've seen people in actual need of such meds. That you, Jimmah, talon, and others would reach for it suggests that you can't differentiate a difference of interpretation (even though I'm right) with actual psychotic symptoms.

It's a form of Godwin'ing.

Bullshit...the tripe you've been spewing about in this thread is some of the most delusional drivel I've seen in quite a while.

489 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:03:25pm

re: #485 avanti

No harm, no foul.:)

Good! No sense in getting you mixed up in our argument...

490 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:03:33pm

re: #484 PSGInfinity

No, it's blogodidact, not OneCosmos. However, Gaghdad Bob *does* have an anti-Charles rant on his blog today...

Correct, you link to a blog that links to a site openly slandering Charles, with a quotation appearing on the front page of the blog you link to. Disgusting and inappropriate to link to that here.

491 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:05:29pm

re: #486 Hassen bin Sober

Oh, for Pete's sake. No one is decrying conservative principles. We're decrying bigots hijacking our party. Get it?

492 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:06:37pm

re: #482 PSGInfinity

I've seen people in actual need of such meds. That you, Jimmah, talon, and others would reach for it suggests that you can't differentiate a difference of interpretation (even though I'm right) with actual psychotic symptoms.

It's a form of Godwin'ing.

Sometimes when people call you a looney for expressing extreme views they aren't actually making a medical diagnosis, but just emphasising your whacked-out extremism.

Having said that, as a very learned friend of mine recently told me, an inability to recognise or understand metaphorical statements and allusions is a common symptom of mental illness, so in your case, who knows?

PS have you chosen your nick for when you will be posting on the stalker blog yet?

493 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:08:33pm

re: #443 PSGInfinity

Happily. One side of this Civil War wishes to destroy Judaism, Christianity, Western Civilization, America and Israel. The other side seeks to prevent this.
(That would be the Left and the Right, respectively)


civil war? when? did you secede from reality?

494 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:12:31pm

Jimmah,

re: #492 Jimmah

Sometimes when people call you a looney for expressing extreme views they aren't actually making a medical diagnosis, but just emphasising your whacked-out extremism.

See your #479 Post. Is this your idea of emphasis?

Having said that, as a very learned friend of mine recently told me, an inability to recognise or understand metaphorical statements and allusions is a common symptom of mental illness, so in your case, who knows?

Um, you do realize that could apply to either of us, or anyone smitten enough to post on a blog on a fine Sunday afternoon, don't you?

PS have you chosen your nick for when you will be posting on the stalker blog yet?

Not consciously. 'Course, I've been using it for about a decade...

495 Hassen bin Sober  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:13:48pm

re: #491 Sharmuta

Oh, for Pete's sake. No one is decrying conservative principles. We're decrying bigots hijacking our party. Get it?

is Pete an Appeal to Authority? - look, I get it. I get it all - don't be so scared of the nuts - we have a lot of them in this country - they weed themselves out and are weeded out by sanction - the people in this country need an outlet and a means to demonstrate and there may not be time to locate the ideal mechanism - decent, intelligent, energetic people abound and your're afraid of being hijacked by Larouch-ians - sheesh, what do you want to do about it? Threaten them? Freedom is messy stuff. Please stop worrying about what I get or don't get.

496 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:14:38pm

re: #493 SpaceJesus

civil war? when? did you secede from reality?

They've said it in almost so many words. The only thing wrong with my take is that its about five years ahead of the curve. (Shrugs) Eh, I'm getting used to it...

497 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:18:03pm

re: #495 Hassen bin Sober

What do I want to do about it? I want to leave the republican party.

498 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:18:18pm

re: #494 PSGInfinity

See your #479 Post. Is this your idea of emphasis?

I know this is hard for you, but...Yes.


Um, you do realize that could apply to either of us, or anyone smitten enough to post on a blog on a fine Sunday afternoon, don't you?

Nope, in fact that statement makes no sense whatsoever.

Not consciously. 'Course, I've been using it for about a decade...

Interesting that you don't deny that you will soon be posting there.

499 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:18:25pm

re: #490 Bagua

Correct, you link to a blog that links to a site openly slandering Charles, with a quotation appearing on the front page of the blog you link to. Disgusting and inappropriate to link to that here.

I'll grant you that using sites that link to, or directly disparage a site principal isn't in the best of taste. It was the first, best thing I thought of, however. Since this is Charles' site, he can remove the link, the post or even me for that matter. I accept that.

That said, the link crystallizes what I've been thinking for awhile. Kismet, I suppose.

500 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:18:42pm

re: #496 PSGInfinity

They've said it in almost so many words. The only thing wrong with my take is that its about five years ahead of the curve. (Shrugs) Eh, I'm getting used to it...

Do you have an IQ of 167 and chafe at playing 3D chess in a 2D world?

501 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:19:36pm

re: #496 PSGInfinity

They've said it in almost so many words. The only thing wrong with my take is that its about five years ahead of the curve. (Shrugs) Eh, I'm getting used to it...

ill take that as a yes

502 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:20:35pm

re: #500 talon_262

Do you have an IQ of 167 and chafe at playing 3D chess in a 2D world?

Nope. And nope. Actually, chess isn't my thing...

503 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:22:24pm

re: #498 Jimmah

Interesting that you don't deny that you will soon be posting there.

By stalker site, do you mean LGFWatch?
I'll post wherever I please, thankyouveddymuch. And that doesn't includes LGFW, DailyKOS, or NYTimes and other fonts of insanity.

504 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:23:02pm

re: #501 SpaceJesus

I'm stunned...I actually agree with spacejesus on something!

/when does the Earth implode into a black hole because of this? ;-P

505 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:24:07pm

re: #501 SpaceJesus

I've either seceded from reality - or joined it. I'd prefer to think it's the latter but her's the important point - time will out, as always.

506 doubter4444  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:24:22pm

re: #487 PSGInfinity

Troll: Check the account create dates for both of us. I stand by my body of work - impish sense of humor and all.
SQ: Does the bridge have a good view of the East River?

Yes, I checked your comments number out earlier, and gave you some respect for that, as I've not been her long, nor do I have tons of time to post.
But number of posts aside, your comments in regards the left and a coming Civil War are unconscionable if not serious, and frightening if so.
Therefore you are either trolling, and you sound like it with your comments, and your "impish" sense of humor.
If you are serious, if civil war comes, I would consider you to be on the other side, the side, of wrong, of intolerance and of bigotry.
I consider you to be, frankly, an enemy of what you claim to uphold.

507 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:25:56pm

re: #503 PSGInfinity

By stalker site, do you mean LGFWatch?
I'll post wherever I please, thankyouveddymuch. And that doesn't includes LGFW, DailyKOS, or NYTimes and other fonts of insanity.

No, generally speaking, the stalker site is the Deuce (LGF2, Blogmocracy, or whatever the f**k they call themselves nowadays)...you know, where savage_nation, rodan, GotC, and other Lizards of the Damned hang their hats nowadays.

508 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:27:50pm

re: #504 talon_262

I'm stunned...I actually agree with spacejesus on something!
/when does the Earth implode into a black hole because of this? ;-P

Couldn't begin to answer that question, but I do know this:
Bookmarks this thread and then check back with me after the 2010 elections.
Most possibilities are within reasonable bounds - unless Pres. Obama's followers steal the election.

509 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:30:23pm

re: #507 talon_262

No, generally speaking, the stalker site is the Deuce (LGF2, Blogmocracy, or whatever the f**k they call themselves nowadays)...you know, where savage_nation, rodan, GotC, and other Lizards of the Damned hang their hats nowadays.

Deuce? You wouldn't happen to have a Google search string that'll bring it up? If it's as you say, then I don't want to ask for a direct link...

510 Hassen bin Sober  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:36:42pm

re: #497 Sharmuta

then I assume that you will do so. In my view, for the past 26 years, the Republican Party has been nothing more than the (slightly) less-evil alternative to the outright criminal enterprise called the Democratic Party. I left it 12 years ago, when Phil Gramm began to take it into financial craziness - among other indicators.

511 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:38:03pm

re: #506 doubter4444

Yes, I checked your comments number out earlier, and gave you some respect for that, as I've not been her long, nor do I have tons of time to post.
But number of posts aside, your comments in regards the left and a coming Civil War are unconscionable if not serious, and frightening if so. Therefore you are either trolling, and you sound like it with your comments, and your "impish" sense of humor. If you are serious, if civil war comes, I would consider you to be on the other side, the side, of wrong, of intolerance and of bigotry. I consider you to be, frankly, an enemy of what you claim to uphold.

Well, I'm sorry you feel so strongly about our difference of interpretation.
Tell you what; bookmark this thread (I'll do the same) and check back with me in about mid-2011. Things'll be much clearer by then, and we can trade notes on what we saw, when, and why.

512 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:45:01pm

re: #503 PSGInfinity

By stalker site, do you mean LGFWatch?
I'll post wherever I please, thankyouveddymuch. And that doesn't includes LGFW, DailyKOS, or NYTimes and other fonts of insanity.

I don't believe that someone who has been around here as long as you have is not aware of 'number 2'. I think you are just pleading ignorance to avoid answering the question directly.

513 doubter4444  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:54:24pm

re: #500 talon_262

Do you have an IQ of 167 and chafe at playing 3D chess in a 2D world?

LOL.
The misunderstood genius!
I'm humbled and at least, since he is 5 years ahead of the curve, I have time to build by bunker.

514 lostlakehiker  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:55:29pm

re: #458 trendsurfer

PSG has already predicted in the previous thread that millions, if not dozens of millions, are going to die when the civil war heats up.

There isn't going to be a civil war. One of many reasons why it won't happen is that if it did, the death toll would be over 100 million. History shows that we don't fight civil wars by the rules of the marquis of queensbury. Both sides would have nukes, and they'd get used.

To predict civil war, and relish the thought that it would afford an opportunity to set things straight and put the other side in its place, is insane. Such a war wouldn't set things straight. It would be the end of the United States. Both sides would lose, and some foreign power, (the nearest thing around to Superpower #2, perhaps) would move in and pick up the pieces. Nobody would object, because nobody would trust us with the power to rebuild and muck up the skies again with fallout.

515 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 3:56:39pm

re: #439 Jimmah

I have a feeling it won't be long before we know what a right wing furry protester looks like. I'm guessing some kind of fucked up bald eagle most likely. Definitely not cuddly.

This is the one of the funniest things I have ever read. ;)

One of the lefty blogs ran a contest a few years ago: Redesign Ace of Spades' banner! --- because his design skillz suck so badly. As I recall, the winning entry had a flaming skull with crossed guitars on one side, a sweeping american flag in the background, and a bald eagle on the other side. The eagle was weeping a single tear in which you could see the reflection of the WTC.

516 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 4:01:50pm

re: #512 Jimmah

I don't believe that someone who has been around here as long as you have is not aware of 'number 2'. I think you are just pleading ignorance to avoid answering the question directly.

Actually, I haven't followed the threads closely in over a year so no, I'm not aware of the specific site. I may go poking through the archives, though...

517 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 4:02:09pm

re: #515 iceweasel

This is the one of the funniest things I have ever read. ;)

One of the lefty blogs ran a contest a few years ago: Redesign Ace of Spades' banner! --- because his design skillz suck so badly. As I recall, the winning entry had a flaming skull with crossed guitars on one side, a sweeping american flag in the background, and a bald eagle on the other side. The eagle was weeping a single tear in which you could see the reflection of the WTC.

Thanks i-Dub! Glad you appreciated that :)

The funniest thing about Ace of Spades graphic project you mentioned is that he would no doubt have thought the end result RAWKED!

518 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 4:05:38pm

re: #516 PSGInfinity

Actually, I haven't followed the threads closely in over a year so no, I'm not aware of the specific site. I may go poking through the archives, though...

Youtube Video
519 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 4:09:42pm

re: #518 Jimmah

[Video]

I'll take that as a "no" to the Google question. Oh well, I'll poke and ask around.

520 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 4:20:13pm

re: #514 lostlakehiker

[SNIP] History shows that we don't fight civil wars by the rules of the marquis of queensbury. Both sides would have nukes, and they'd get used.
To predict civil war, and relish the thought that it would afford an opportunity to set things straight and put the other side in its place, is insane. [SNIP]

I never said I'd relish the thought of our "bottles of liquid sunshine" poured out on the fruited plain. I'm just opining on what could happen (and to some extent is). I live in DCTown, and if one or more of those critters goes off here, I'm dead. Don't particularly enjoy the thought. But there's a trivial-but-non-zero chance it could happen.

521 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 4:34:22pm

re: #519 PSGInfinity

I'll take that as a "no" to the Google question. Oh well, I'll poke and ask around.

I don't believe your google-fu is so weak that you haven't realised that simply typing in such a uniquely hideous and stupid neologism as 'Blogmocracy' - already given to you a few posts up by Talon - would answer your question.

So quit playing dumb. You've already been given more than enough info to find that site - even if I was buying that you didn't already know about it, which I'm not.

522 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 4:38:04pm
523 Throbert McGee  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 4:55:55pm

re: #515 iceweasel

This is the one of the funniest things I have ever read. ;)

One of the lefty blogs ran a contest a few years ago: Redesign Ace of Spades' banner! --- because his design skillz suck so badly. As I recall, the winning entry had a flaming skull with crossed guitars on one side, a sweeping american flag in the background, and a bald eagle on the other side. The eagle was weeping a single tear in which you could see the reflection of the WTC.

Bwah-hah! I love Ace -- pity about the comments thread over there.

524 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 4:58:08pm

re: #522 PSGInfinity

No, it isn't weak. One search in Charles' box produced blogmocracy and one google produced the site. Top hit in both searches. I recognized Iron Fist's nic, and knew that must be the site you're referring to. Sorry, hadn't gotten around to posting that.

Took you long enough. In your last post you were still muttering about 'asking around' for help.

Being flamed has a way off cooling your passion to post at a site, knowwhatImean?

I'm sensing a certain level of butthurt from you now. Imagine being 'flamed' for nothing more egregious than smearing the entire left with the accusation that they want to destroy western civilisation! Poor you!/

525 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 5:11:11pm

re: #523 Throbert McGee

Bwah-hah! I love Ace -- pity about the comments thread over there.

Unfortunately, Throbert, Ace's commentariat are a reflection of Ace himself. This post will give you some background on the kind of thing Ace considers both witty and trenchant political commentary.

I'd urge you also to take a look at the requests he makes of readers. Angry gay-baiting isn't okay...but apparently gay-baiting is just fine.

Ace is scum, IMO. Plus he spent all of last weekend saying vile things about CJ and LGF. I'm guessing you haven't read enough Ace to know. He did use to be saner, years ago, but there's always been a very ugly undertone of misogyny and homophobia there, and it isn't just the comments.

526 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 5:15:13pm

re: #524 Jimmah

Took you long enough. In your last post you were still muttering about 'asking around' for help.
...And I would justify a time lag to you for what reason?

I'm sensing a certain level of butthurt from you now. Imagine being 'flamed' for nothing more egregious than smearing the entire left with the accusation that they want to destroy western civilization! [stupidity redacted]
...Except that's what they want to do.

527 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 5:18:06pm

re: #525 iceweasel

Ace is scum, IMO.

Totally agree.

528 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 5:24:02pm

re: #521 Jimmah

So quit playing dumb. You've already been given more than enough info to find that site - even if I was buying that you didn't already know about it, which I'm not.

Not playing dumb - simply asking for a pointer. I went and found the site after a brief search. And I didn't see it because I haven't been playing nearly as close attention to LGF as in days gone by. So believe that, or not. But remember, you're claiming to know my heart on the "strength" of a few posts. That was bad wasn't it? (I get so confused)

529 Throbert McGee  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 5:36:59pm

re: #525 iceweasel

I'd urge you also to take a look at the requests he makes of readers. Angry gay-baiting isn't okay...but apparently gay-baiting is just fine.

Ace is scum, IMO. Plus he spent all of last weekend saying vile things about CJ and LGF. I'm guessing you haven't read enough Ace to know. .

I have no objection to making a distinction between "angry gay baiting" and plain ol' "gay baiting" -- I mean, I myself have sometimes disparaged the Gay Subculture™ as a "toxic swamp." Which is to say that there's plenty of gay misbehavior that can be rationally criticized and scorned without ever crossing the line into irrational homophobia.

Having said that...

It's true that I'm not a regular reader of AoS -- at most, it was one of those blogs that I checked on a weekly or even semi-monthly basis, but not daily like LGF (or Discarded Lies, during the long period when I wasn't hanging out at LGF very much). And I had absolutely no idea that Ace himself had taken to attacking LGF and CJ, although I knew he was tolerating it in the AoS comments.

Oh, ugh... the thought of having to concede a point to James Wolcott is making me queasy!

530 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 5:46:24pm

re: #526 PSGInfinity

Took you long enough. In your last post you were still muttering about 'asking around' for help.
...And I would justify a time lag to you for what reason?

I'm sensing a certain level of butthurt from you now. Imagine being 'flamed' for nothing more egregious than smearing the entire left with the accusation that they want to destroy western civilization! [stupidity redacted]
...Except that's what they want to do.

No they don't, you raving idiot. I am on the left (like many 'lefties', close to the centre) - let me assure you I so not want to destroy western civilisation, nor does anyone I know. You are living in a fantasy world.

531 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 5:50:53pm

re: #528 PSGInfinity

Not playing dumb - simply asking for a pointer. I went and found the site after a brief search. And I didn't see it because I haven't been playing nearly as close attention to LGF as in days gone by. So believe that, or not. But remember, you're claiming to know my heart on the "strength" of a few posts. That was bad wasn't it? (I get so confused)

That's a lot of typing there - rather desperate looking, don't you think? Save yourself the effort - I'm not buying your bullshit.

532 PSGInfinity  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 6:18:49pm

re: #531 Jimmah

Sorry you feel that way. It's not bullshit...

533 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 6:20:40pm

re: #532 PSGInfinity

Sorry you feel that way. It's not bullshit...

True. It's rankest bullshit.

534 Bagua  Sun, Sep 13, 2009 8:42:12pm

re: #533 iceweasel

True. It's rankest bullshit.

Quite concur, but I suppose we waste our time trying to reason with someone who is simple unreasonable.

535 orfannkyl  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 7:11:23am

Facepalm x2

536 the classical liberal  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 10:53:13am

I don't think that the poster is necessarily racist. I don't think it should be used because it can be construed as racist and therefore get in the way of the message that Obama's Healthcare plan is irrational and ought not be approved.

However remember when George Bush called Supply-Side Economics "Voodoo Economics?" If either Reagan or Laffer (the economist behind Reagan's plan) were black would that have made George Bush's comment racist?

537 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 11:03:05am

re: #536 the classical liberal

I don't think that the poster is necessarily racist.

Are you insane?

A picture of a black man with a bone through his freaking nose is not racist?

On which planet?

538 the classical liberal  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 11:50:05am

re: #537 Charles

Are you insane?

A picture of a black man with a bone through his freaking nose is not racist?

On which planet?

As mentioned in the earlier post we have used the imagry of voodoo to connotate something silly, something upheld by wishful thinking. Witch doctors / voodoo are images of irrationality. I'm sure believers of voodoo and of various traditional medicines would be more than a little upset by anyone calling their beliefs symbols of "irrationality."

Nevertheless, as an athiest, I think they are. That doesn't make me a racist. The poster evokes that Socialized Medicine is irrational. The problem with the poster is not the message, but that we are detracted from the message.

If the image of Obama with a bone in his nose is racist then a picture of Reagan in "caveman" garb was also racist.

539 Ben G. Hazi  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:55:41pm

re: #538 the classical liberal

What part of "that sort of shit is repugnant" do you not understand?

540 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Sep 14, 2009 1:57:44pm

re: #538 the classical liberal

You certainly do have your own slant on things.

GAZE

541 the classical liberal  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 11:35:57am

re: #539 talon_262

What part of "that sort of shit is repugnant" do you not understand?

It’s repugnant in the same way as showing George Bush with horns or calling him BushHitler is repugnant. However you are missing my point, I am not questioning whether the poster is repugnant -- it is -- but whether or not it is racist. As stated earlier if the image of Obama with a bone in his nose is racist then a picture of Reagan in "caveman" garb should also be considered racist. Both evoke images of an irrational, backward state. If one is racist then both are.

542 Charles Johnson  Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:11:13pm

re: #541 the classical liberal

It’s repugnant in the same way as showing George Bush with horns or calling him BushHitler is repugnant. However you are missing my point, I am not questioning whether the poster is repugnant -- it is -- but whether or not it is racist. As stated earlier if the image of Obama with a bone in his nose is racist then a picture of Reagan in "caveman" garb should also be considered racist. Both evoke images of an irrational, backward state. If one is racist then both are.

You are full of crap, and you're trying to make excuses for something that is inexcusable. You're either dense, or you're deliberately trying to excuse racism.

Get off my website.


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