If you had any remaining doubt about Michele Bachmann’s position on gay rights:
Youtube Video“Any of you who have members of your family that are in the lifestyle—we have a member of our family that is. This is not funny. It’s a very sad life. It’s part of Satan, I think, to say this is gay. It’s anything but gay.”
2 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:47:52pm |
| 4 |
Querent Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:49:42pm |
WTFF??!!
My Stupidioscope just imploded.
(After that moral Derpitude from Coulter last night, i knew it couldn'a take much more, Captain...)
PS -- Charles -- is there a reason why PayPal refuses to let me subscribe with a credit card? Is LGF bank-draft-only or something?
(Please enlighten me, so i don't direct any undeserved wrath at PayPal. Only deserved wrath...)
| 5 |
austin_blue Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:49:50pm |
Ah yes. Being born homosexual is satanic. Brilliant, you freakazoid! Who would *choose* to be a pariah to your segment of society?
Why do you think the suicide rate of young gay people is so high? Maybe it's because of bigots like you?
Duh!
| 6 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:50:07pm |
Hail Satan, a toast to the inverted kingdom
| 7 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:51:14pm |
re: #3 b_sharp
Every day but poop day.
I saw a great Canadian movie today...... The Stone Angel..... I was in tears.
| 8 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:51:14pm |
"“Any of you who have members of your family that are in the lifestyle"
Homosexuality is not a lifestyle... adopting double digit number of kids... that's a lifestyle...
| 9 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:52:36pm |
re: #8 jamesfirecat
"“Any of you who have members of your family that are in the lifestyle"
Homosexuality is not a lifestyle... adopting double digit number of kids... that's a lifestyle...
James, that was rapier swift and cutting.
| 10 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:52:36pm |
re: #8 jamesfirecat
"“Any of you who have members of your family that are in the lifestyle"
Homosexuality is not a lifestyle... adopting double digit number of kids... that's a lifestyle...
what adoptions?
| 11 |
Obdicut Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:53:09pm |
| 13 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:53:55pm |
re: #11 Obdicut
Living the sad life:
Image: Stephen_Fry-1-200-200-85-nocrop.jpg
Well..... it's better when you have fame and money.
| 14 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:55:48pm |
Considering it's Michelle Bachmann's husband's business model to talk queers out of being gay with their prop bibles, not surprising really
it's sorta like asking a car dealership if you need a new car :D They make money by being swine
| 15 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:56:04pm |
living the happy life...
[Link: www.moviefone.com...]
| 16 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:56:18pm |
re: #11 Obdicut
Living the sad life:
Image: Stephen_Fry-1-200-200-85-nocrop.jpg
Satan's minions.
Funny, talented, charismatic minions.
| 17 |
prairiefire Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:56:28pm |
re: #11 Obdicut
Living the sad life:
Image: Stephen_Fry-1-200-200-85-nocrop.jpg
Hello! Did you get my email?
| 18 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:57:02pm |
re: #11 Obdicut
Living the sad life:
Image: Stephen_Fry-1-200-200-85-nocrop.jpg
First you get into homosexuality
Then you get into magic...
Then you get into drugs.
| 19 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 7:57:57pm |
re: #13 Mr Pancakes
Well... it's better when you have fame and money.
it's also better if you live somewhere far away from Michelle Bachmann types
Move to the godless pinko commie wasteland that is Portland, Oregon, it's nicer without the pigs screechin' about damnation and flingin' their poo
| 20 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:00:07pm |
re: #19 WindUpBird
it's also better if you live somewhere far away from Michelle Bachmann types
Move to the godless pinko commie wasteland that is Portland, Oregon, it's nicer without the pigs screechin' about damnation and flingin' their poo
It's funny you should say that WUB..... I was going to say "Well... it's better when you have fame and money, or live in Portland."
| 21 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:00:30pm |
re: #8 jamesfirecat
"“Any of you who have members of your family that are in the lifestyle"
Homosexuality is not a lifestyle... adopting double digit number of kids... that's a lifestyle...
she didn't adopt them She fostered for varying times over time. There is a difference, which is not to say I am critical of that aspect.
| 22 |
dragonath Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:00:33pm |
Topic title made me think of this:
| 24 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:01:19pm |
re: #20 Mr Pancakes
Austin I hear is nice!
| 25 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:01:26pm |
re: #21 Naso Tang
she didn't adopt them She fostered for varying times over time. There is a difference, which is not to say I am critical of that aspect.
There is a huge difference.
| 26 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:01:31pm |
I Want To Break Free
| 27 |
darthstar Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:01:41pm |
re: #11 Obdicut
Living the sad life:
Image: Stephen_Fry-1-200-200-85-nocrop.jpg
Doogie Howser, MD can't be gay...he sells Xfinity!
//
| 28 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:01:50pm |
| 29 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:02:43pm |
re: #28 Mr Pancakes
That's Texas... ewww!
/
it's the good part of Texas, where The Sword comes from *_*
| 30 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:03:13pm |
| 31 |
darthstar Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:03:22pm |
| 32 |
darthstar Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:05:12pm |
| 33 |
Querent Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:05:30pm |
| 34 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:05:30pm |
| 35 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:05:44pm |
Somebody To Love
| 36 |
jamesfirecat Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:06:08pm |
re: #21 Naso Tang
she didn't adopt them She fostered for varying times over time. There is a difference, which is not to say I am critical of that aspect.
I wouldn't be critical of her either way... I appreciate the fact that she has so much love to give around to so many children who otherwise might not have anyone to think of as parents....
None the less choosing to expand ones own family in such a way is doubtlessly a "lifestyle choice" same as what religion one believes in....
There's nothing wrong with lifestyle choices that end up harming no one... but there's no choice in homosexuality.
Unless Michele Bachmann would care to prove me wrong by choosing to live as a lesbian for the next decade or so...
| 37 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:06:43pm |
re: #34 WindUpBird
David Bowie, the man of a thousand coiffures
that who that is?...didn't recognize him without makeup
| 38 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:07:33pm |
| 39 |
Iwouldprefernotto Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:07:59pm |
Sorry can't listen to her. (Hope that doesn't make me a Satan worshiper or gay).
| 41 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:09:51pm |
re: #36 jamesfirecat
I wouldn't be critical of her either way... I appreciate the fact that she has so much love to give around to so many children who otherwise might not have anyone to think of as parents...
None the less choosing to expand ones own family in such a way is doubtlessly a "lifestyle choice" same as what religion one believes in...
There's nothing wrong with lifestyle choices that end up harming no one... but there's no choice in homosexuality.
Unless Michele Bachmann would care to prove me wrong by choosing to live as a lesbian for the next decade or so...
Dragging kids into narrow extremist religious views will end up doing harm.
| 42 |
tnguitarist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:11:21pm |
There's a question I want asked of her, but I'm not counting on the media to do their job.
She once said, "The Lord says: Be submissive, wives, you are to be submissive to your husbands".
So I want to know--if she were elected president, who would be running the country-her or her husband?
| 43 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:11:37pm |
| 44 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:13:01pm |
| 45 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:13:08pm |
re: #42 tnguitarist
There's a question I want asked of her, but I'm not counting on the media to do their job.
She once said, "The Lord says: Be submissive, wives, you are to be submissive to your husbands".
So I want to know--if she were elected president, who would be running the country-her or her husband?
the hubby will vanquish the gays while she sucks off Exxon...what more is there?
| 46 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:13:11pm |
re: #38 WindUpBird
[Video]THE RUNESWORD BECKONS
Even though we are juxtaposed on most things..... I connect with you on a Hawkwind level big time.
| 47 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:13:18pm |
re: #42 tnguitarist
There's a question I want asked of her, but I'm not counting on the media to do their job.
She once said, "The Lord says: Be submissive, wives, you are to be submissive to your husbands".
So I want to know--if she were elected president, who would be running the country-her or her husband?
God.
A vile, vindictive, manipulative, Loki of a god.
| 48 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:15:00pm |
re: #46 Mr Pancakes
Even though we are juxtaposed on most things... I connect with you on a Hawkwind level big time.
[Video]
I have Hawkwind vinyl downstairs, but no working turntable.
| 49 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:15:35pm |
| 50 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:16:01pm |
re: #46 Mr Pancakes
We can always agree on the Hawkwind *___*
Monster Magnet did a fine cover of Brainstorm, once upon a time
| 51 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:17:26pm |
Hawkwind sounds like a quiet native American group...flutes etc
| 52 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:17:49pm |
re: #48 b_sharp
I have Hawkwind vinyl downstairs, but no working turntable.
Not the same as listening to the vinyl.
| 53 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:18:38pm |
re: #51 albusteve
Hawkwind sounds like a quiet native American group...flutes etc
hahaha I know, you'd think from the name they'd be some quiet twinkly new age thing, and not the psychedelic shitfest that gave Lemmy (and thus Motorhead) to the world :D
| 54 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:18:39pm |
re: #51 albusteve
Hawkwind sounds like a quiet native American group...flutes etc
Or a rapturous fart.
| 55 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:19:12pm |
re: #8 jamesfirecat
"“Any of you who have members of your family that are in the lifestyle"
Homosexuality is not a lifestyle... adopting double digit number of kids... that's a lifestyle...
Being a dumb, conservative Christian bigot...more lifestyle choice.
| 56 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:19:29pm |
re: #48 b_sharp
I have Hawkwind vinyl downstairs, but no working turntable.
You can get a cheap turntable with a USB connection...... how cool is that?
[Link: www.staples.com...]
| 57 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:20:10pm |
re: #53 WindUpBird
hahaha I know, you'd think from the name they'd be some quiet twinkly new age thing, and not the psychedelic shitfest that gave Lemmy (and thus Motorhead) to the world :D
I'm so out of it
| 58 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:20:58pm |
re: #56 Mr Pancakes
You can get a cheap turntable with a USB connection... how cool is that?
[Link: www.staples.com...]
I have an expensive direct drive turntable in storage, but I need to fix a couple of the pots. I just have too many other things to do.
| 59 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:21:52pm |
re: #58 b_sharp
I have an expensive direct drive turntable in storage, but I need to fix a couple of the pots. I just have too many other things to do.
Just trying to help man...... just trying to help.
| 60 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:23:09pm |
re: #36 jamesfirecat
I wouldn't be critical of her either way... I appreciate the fact that she has so much love to give around to so many children who otherwise might not have anyone to think of as parents...
Eh, she's no messiah. I'd rather be dead than have to live as a gay foster kid with dumb bigots like the Bachmanns for parents.
| 61 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:24:01pm |
re: #59 Mr Pancakes
Just trying to help man... just trying to help.
I know, and I appreciate it.
That USB turntable, can you play pancakes on it?
| 62 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:24:14pm |
re: #60 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Eh, she's no messiah. I'd rather be dead than have to live as a gay foster kid with dumb bigots like the Bachmanns for parents.
Dead doesn't leave you many options..... just sayin.
| 63 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:24:55pm |
re: #61 b_sharp
I know, and I appreciate it.
That USB turntable, can you play pancakes on it?
No..... it gums up the needle.
| 64 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:25:13pm |
| 65 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:25:49pm |
| 67 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:26:50pm |
re: #62 Mr Pancakes
Dead doesn't leave you many options... just sayin.
Death is preferable to living gay in a dumb bigot household. Just a personal preference..others will feel differently according to their own experience.
| 68 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:27:43pm |
re: #67 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Death is preferable to living gay in a dumb bigot household. Just a personal preference..others will feel differently according to their own experience.
That's sad
| 69 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:27:54pm |
re: #67 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Death is preferable to living gay in a dumb bigot household. Just a personal preference..others will feel differently according to their own experience.
one is permanent and the other isn't...consider that
| 70 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:29:44pm |
re: #68 Mr Pancakes
That's sad
Perhaps but sympathy doesn't interest me. Unless one has walked in those shoes...
| 71 |
Mocking Jay Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:30:05pm |
re: #67 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Death is preferable to living gay in a dumb bigot household. Just a personal preference..others will feel differently according to their own experience.
Meh. I'd choose life in that circumstance.
| 72 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:30:42pm |
re: #67 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Death is preferable to living gay in a dumb bigot household. Just a personal preference..others will feel differently according to their own experience.
Sometimes living in Hell leaves you only difficult options.
| 73 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:31:29pm |
re: #69 albusteve
one is permanent and the other isn't...consider that
I have reasons for having said it that do not come from reading about it on the internet or in books. Consider that.
| 74 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:31:33pm |
re: #70 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Perhaps but sympathy doesn't interest me. Unless one has walked in those shoes...
Ok..... but you are still alive. That is to be celebrated and I don't know your story....... you are posting here tonight and that's "not sad."
| 75 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:32:36pm |
re: #73 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I have reasons for having said it that do not come from reading about it on the internet or in books. Consider that.
Hey... If I could hug ya I would.
| 76 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:32:52pm |
re: #74 Mr Pancakes
and I don't know your story
You're right, you don't.
No one is required to agree with the statement. It was 100% subjective.
| 77 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:34:05pm |
re: #76 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
You're right, you don't.
No one is required to agree with the statement. It was 100% subjective.
Nah... not going to argue with you over the story I don't know...... just glad you are here.
| 78 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:34:14pm |
re: #71 JasonA
Meh. I'd choose life in that circumstance.
I've watched kids turn to drugs that leave them mindless shells because they can't deal with the pain of life. Most of them bounced from foster home to foster home much of their childhoods.
| 79 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:35:28pm |
re: #73 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I have reasons for having said it that do not come from reading about it on the internet or in books. Consider that.
whatever...you survive or toss in the towel, and likely survive anyway...as for me, death is not an option or choice I'd make over whatever it was that freaked you out
| 80 |
SpaceJesus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:35:38pm |
| 81 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:35:55pm |
re: #72 b_sharp
Sometimes living in Hell leaves you only difficult options.
Depending on the situation, sometimes just one or two.
I just feel bad for those 23 people who had to be subjected to people like the Bachmanns and then trotted out like tokens of what an altruistic loving etc person she must be.
The conventional wisdom is that they all ought to be grateful for whatever treatment they get, but that isn't always true.
| 82 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:36:48pm |
re: #81 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Depending on the situation, sometimes just one or two.
I just feel bad for those 23 people who had to be subjected to people like the Bachmanns and then trotted out like tokens of what an altruistic loving etc person she must be.
The conventional wisdom is that they all ought to be grateful for whatever treatment they get, but that isn't always true.
You express my thoughts well.
| 83 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:37:23pm |
re: #79 albusteve
whatever...you survive or toss in the towel, and likely survive anyway...as for me, death is not an option or choice I'd make over whatever it was that freaked you out
Whatever is right, since whatever you think you know about me is totally irrelevant, as are your value judgments of a simple statment.
No one is making you have the same sentiments, so just relax.
| 84 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:38:30pm |
re: #77 Mr Pancakes
Nah... not going to argue with you over the story I don't know... just glad you are here.
Thanks, Mr. Pancakes.
| 85 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:38:40pm |
re: #83 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Whatever is right, since whatever you think you know about me is totally irrelevant, as are your value judgments of a simple statment.
No one is making you have the same sentiments, so just relax.
I'm cool as a cucumber
| 86 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:39:20pm |
re: #8 jamesfirecat
"“Any of you who have members of your family that are in the lifestyle"
Homosexuality is not a lifestyle... adopting double digit number of kids... that's a lifestyle...
I admire Bachmann for her fostering, but she scores negative on the balance sheet as a whole and lines like this are much of the reason why.
| 87 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:39:59pm |
re: #71 JasonA
Meh. I'd choose life in that circumstance.
Well truth be told unless/until one has been in it, one really has no idea what they would do.
We may know what we think we would do, or what we would like to do. That's much different than being in the situation.
| 88 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:41:34pm |
re: #36 jamesfirecat
I wouldn't be critical of her either way... I appreciate the fact that she has so much love to give around to so many children who otherwise might not have anyone to think of as parents...
Yes, except that statistically speaking 1 or 2 or 3 of those children who lived with her were likely to be gay. One has to wonder ....
| 89 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:42:09pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
I admire Bachmann for her fostering, but she scores negative on the balance sheet as a whole and lines like this are much of the reason why.
Fostering isn't quantitative, it's qualitative.
If she did a crap job of fostering, the number of children she fostered makes it worse, not better.
| 90 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:42:20pm |
re: #87 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Well truth be told unless/until one has been in it, one really has no idea what they would do.
We may know what we think we would do, or what we would like to do. That's much different than being in the situation.
But I'm assuming you are now out of that situation....... being alive today posting here or whatever you did today is better than being dead back then?
God I hope I worded that right.
| 91 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:43:23pm |
re: #87 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Well truth be told unless/until one has been in it, one really has no idea what they would do.
We may know what we think we would do, or what we would like to do. That's much different than being in the situation.
Walk a day in my moccasins.
| 92 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:44:22pm |
re: #87 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Well truth be told unless/until one has been in it, one really has no idea what they would do.
We may know what we think we would do, or what we would like to do. That's much different than being in the situation.
This song is one that expresses that fact very well:
| 93 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:44:56pm |
I cried because I had no shoes...
til I met a man who had no feet
| 94 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:45:05pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
I admire Bachmann for her fostering,
I don't. I don't see anything noble or novel about authoritarian bigots like the Bachmanns who take in society's most vulnerable. Especially the ones who use it for bragging rights. In fact, I find it potentially very insidious.
Anybody ever heard anything from these young adults? She's running for president, I find it odd that no one has said anything about it, regardless of whether they were decent parents or not.
| 95 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:45:48pm |
re: #89 b_sharp
Fostering isn't quantitative, it's qualitative.
If she did a crap job of fostering, the number of children she fostered makes it worse, not better.
Yes, but I have not heard accounts charging her with failure on that score.
| 97 |
b_sharp Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:51:27pm |
re: #95 Dark_Falcon
Yes, but I have not heard accounts charging her with failure on that score.
We haven't heard anything, good or bad.
My wife spent several years being fostered by extreme religious fanatics as an adolescent. It was hell to her.
| 99 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:53:06pm |
re: #86 Dark_Falcon
I admire Bachmann for her fostering, but she scores negative on the balance sheet as a whole and lines like this are much of the reason why.
I too admire her for fostering kids...... my parents had foster kids. You are always wondering if the parent (parents) will get their shit together and take the kids back. My foster sister died of leukemia at 15..... I was 13. A very traumatic time in my life and my parent's life....... politics played no role.
| 100 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:53:30pm |
re: #90 Mr Pancakes
But I'm assuming you are now out of that situation... being alive today posting here or whatever you did today is better than being dead back then?
God I hope I worded that right.
I'm pretty existential about it. If I were not here posting due to death, no one here would be the wiser.
Lol it (not you Mr. P) reminds me of so-called "prolifers" who would spittle in my face BE GLAD YOUR MOTHER DIDN'T ABORT *YOU*. Lol if she had, I wouldn't have to put up with some dumb bigot spittling inane, anger-based bullcrap in my face.
| 101 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:54:29pm |
re: #95 Dark_Falcon
Yes, but I have not heard accounts charging her with failure on that score.
We haven't heard any accounts about the matter, at all.
| 102 |
prairiefire Tue, Jul 12, 2011 8:57:54pm |
re: #94 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I'm waiting. Many fostered children have a hard time once they grow out of the system and become adults. Often have many difficulties. If there is one of the 23 who is a successful adult, let them speak! The ones who have challenges, come forward! We are assuming much based on our own personal experiences. I am interested in knowing how well the Bachmans did.
| 104 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:01:29pm |
re: #101 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
We haven't heard any accounts about the matter, at all.
True. But until we do I'm giving her the same courtesy I extend to other candidates: I'm going to assume she's a good parent, absent evidence to the contrary. If such evidence emerges, I promise to judge it fairly.
| 105 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:02:46pm |
re: #89 b_sharp
Fostering isn't quantitative, it's qualitative.
If she did a crap job of fostering, the number of children she fostered makes it worse, not better.
Considering the sheer volume and statistical average there's good odds that one of the kids she fostered is gay. I pity any child attempting to come to terms with such in that household, like parachuting deep behind enemy lines.
| 106 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:02:47pm |
If there were a God he, or she, wouldn't care about sexual preference. And if God "made man in his image" then He is part homosexual.
| 107 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:04:05pm |
re: #105 goddamnedfrank
Considering the sheer volume and statistical average there's good odds that one of the kids she fostered is gay. I pity any child attempting to come to terms with such in that household, like parachuting deep behind enemy lines.
But you don't know that man...... that's speculative.
| 108 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:06:24pm |
re: #88 Naso Tang
Yes, except that statistically speaking 1 or 2 or 3 of those children who lived with her were likely to be gay. One has to wonder ...
Gay or any other manner of non-conformist. But we do have a crystal clear idea of what they think of must be done to gays in particular, at least according to that filthy husband of hers.
I really hope they are not the types who take in the vulnerables and throwaways because they know they can get away with all manner of shit.
But oh joy, they took in all those poor orphans, what saints and altruistic martyrs they must be. No giving, loving, selfless Bible-believing forced childbirth pro life conservative could ever mistreat a child. ///
| 109 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:07:13pm |
re: #105 goddamnedfrank
Considering the sheer volume and statistical average there's good odds that one of the kids she fostered is gay. I pity any child attempting to come to terms with such in that household, like parachuting deep behind enemy lines.
Hopefully they were the 101st Airborne (US) rather than the British 1st Airborne in that analogy.
Note: This post should not be read to include any species of Godwin's Law violation. Though the 1st faced the Waffen SS, I am not comparing Michelle Bachmann to said SS.
| 110 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:08:18pm |
"in the lifestyle"?
to be sure there are some sexual and gender confused individuals out there who may be living the "wrong" lifestyle, they may also be exploring themselves and the world.
I mean really, I genuinely believe that individuals KNOW what turns them on. Kinda hard to not know . . .
How is everyone this evening?
| 111 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:09:03pm |
re: #110 ggt
"in the lifestyle"?
to be sure there are some sexual and gender confused individuals out there who may be living the "wrong" lifestyle, they may also be exploring themselves and the world.
I mean really, I genuinely believe that individuals KNOW what turns them on. Kinda hard to not know . . .
How is everyone this evening?
Good.. and you?
| 112 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:10:21pm |
re: #107 Mr Pancakes
But you don't know that man... that's speculative.
So what? Are we supposed to feel better about her if every single child who dropped into her bigoted clutches came with a rock solid heterosexual foundation? Lord knows they'd need it, and even still such constant exposure to that level of blind prejudice and hatred has to be intrinsically damaging.
| 113 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:11:15pm |
re: #100 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I'm pretty existential about it. If I were not here posting due to death, no one here would be the wiser.
Lol it (not you Mr. P) reminds me of so-called "prolifers" who would spittle in my face BE GLAD YOUR MOTHER DIDN'T ABORT *YOU*. Lol if she had, I wouldn't have to put up with some dumb bigot spittling inane, anger-based bullcrap in my face.
If anyone ever said that to me I'd probably laugh in their face. Or, If I was feeling evil, tell them "I've suffered depression most of my life and really wouldn't mind if my mother and aborted me."
I'd love to see the reaction.
| 114 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:12:59pm |
re: #110 ggt
"in the lifestyle"?
to be sure there are some sexual and gender confused individuals out there who may be living the "wrong" lifestyle, they may also be exploring themselves and the world.
I mean really, I genuinely believe that individuals KNOW what turns them on. Kinda hard to not know . . .
How is everyone this evening?
Oh you know. You're sitting around one very boring Sunday afternoon when you're 15 and decide, "heck, I think I'll be gay."
//
| 115 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:13:12pm |
re: #111 Mr Pancakes
Good.. and you?
awake. Thanks for askin'!
oh, and being pestered by the Cat Overlord.
| 116 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:13:31pm |
re: #104 Dark_Falcon
True. But until we do I'm giving her the same courtesy I extend to other candidates: I'm going to assume she's a good parent, absent evidence to the contrary. If such evidence emerges, I promise to judge it fairly.
I see no reason to trust her supposed snowy white motives on this or any other matter. She's not capable of telling the truth about much of anything, why would they be telling the truth about what superior parents they are, with "23 foster children!!!!" as proof.
They are disgusting. I just hope none of those kids, or none of her own are/were gay/ex-gay barbarians who need(ed) to be educated and disciplined.
| 117 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:13:58pm |
re: #112 goddamnedfrank
So what? Are we supposed to feel better about her if every single child who dropped into her bigoted clutches came with a rock solid heterosexual foundation? Lord knows they'd need it, and even still such constant exposure to that level of blind prejudice and hatred has to be intrinsically damaging.
Well...... please send me a link when disgruntled foster child of hers admits to hell on earth being gay living under her roof... until then, it's speculative.... sorry.
| 118 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:15:54pm |
re: #117 Mr Pancakes
Well... please send me a link when disgruntled foster child of hers admits to hell on earth being gay living under her roof... until then, it's speculative... sorry.
23...there has to be at least 1 that wants to talk.
Reagan's kids (daughters) were very outspoken. Other that that, I really can't remember any POTUS kids who were.
| 119 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:18:10pm |
re: #106 Gus 802
If there were a God he, or she, wouldn't care about sexual preference. And if God "made man in his image" then He is part homosexual.
"There was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved." John 13:23
2 dudes together. Hot.
| 120 |
ProGunLiberal Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:18:47pm |
Off topic, but Thailand seems to be having issues with Democracy:
Thailand's Election Commission fails to endorse 142 prospective members of the House of Representatives including incoming Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra and former Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.
| 121 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:19:18pm |
re: #117 Mr Pancakes
Well... please send me a link when disgruntled foster child of hers admits to hell on earth being gay living under her roof... until then, it's speculative... sorry.
Her kids were probably kept so busy with school, sports, chores and church activities that they didn't have time to think about their sexuality. She seems the picture perfect soccer mom to me.
Not that I think that is necessarily a good thing.. . .But overall, they probably had a busy and healthy life, family dinners etc.
Not saying that it would be good to appear effeminate or "butch" in that crowd, but it probably wasn't an problem either.
| 122 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:19:34pm |
re: #119 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
"There was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved." John 13:23
2 dudes together. Hot.
when TWO DUDES can ride around on a tandem bicycle together, what is this world coming to?
-Bob Green (Phil Hendrie character)
| 123 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:20:02pm |
re: #121 ggt
Her kids were probably kept so busy with school, sports, chores and church activities that they didn't have time to think about their sexuality. She seems the picture perfect soccer mom to me.
Not that I think that is necessarily a good thing.. . .But overall, they probably had a busy and healthy life, family dinners etc.
Not saying that it would be good to appear effeminate or "butch" in that crowd, but it probably wasn't an problem either.
That's fine...... but how could we really know?
| 124 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:20:22pm |
re: #120 ProLifeLiberal
Off topic, but Thailand seems to be having issues with Democracy:
| 125 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:21:38pm |
re: #114 Gus 802
Oh you know. You're sitting around one very boring Sunday afternoon when you're 15 and decide, "heck, I think I'll be gay."
//
As I understand it --just about anything will physically satisfy a 15 yo boy. . . ..at 15 is it a lifestyle choice?
WTF?
| 126 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:22:44pm |
re: #121 ggt
Her kids were probably kept so busy with school, sports, chores and church activities that they didn't have time to think about their sexuality. She seems the picture perfect soccer mom to me.
Not that I think that is necessarily a good thing.. . .But overall, they probably had a busy and healthy life, family dinners etc.
Not saying that it would be good to appear effeminate or "butch" in that crowd, but it probably wasn't an problem either.
Thinking here. And there's really no way we can second guess as to what Michele Bachmann mothering skills are like. There are things like a public persona and a private persona. She could say one thing in public and do almost the complete opposite in private.
| 127 |
prairiefire Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:22:57pm |
re: #125 ggt
As I understand it --just about anything will physically satisfy a 15 yo boy. . . ..at 15 is it a lifestyle choice?
WTF?
Even a pie?
| 128 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:22:59pm |
re: #123 Mr Pancakes
That's fine... but how could we really know?
YOu can't unless one of the kids talks.
The tabloid journalists have to be working their butts off to get an interview. But, you know, we never really heard from Obama's family either.
I remember interviews with Clinton's mom.
| 129 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:23:08pm |
re: #117 Mr Pancakes
Well... please send me a link when disgruntled foster child of hers admits to hell on earth being gay living under her roof... until then, it's speculative... sorry.
That post wasn't directed at me, but I did say from the outset my own sentiment is totally subjective.
But then, so are these odd presumptions that they were good parents, let alone some kind of model they hold themselves up to emulate. There is no reason to give them any benefit of any doubt. They sure wouldn't to their LGBT parent peers, to whom they believe they are superior. I call bollocks on that.
I'd be glad to hear from ANY of the infamous, nameless, faceless 23 trotted out tokens. There's bound to be a few who think they were just fine. No one ever seems to think to ask about them, though.
| 130 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:23:33pm |
| 132 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:23:57pm |
re: #125 ggt
As I understand it --just about anything will physically satisfy a 15 yo boy. . . ..at 15 is it a lifestyle choice?
WTF?
So I heard. Not here and I'm pretty sure that's typical.
| 133 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:24:18pm |
re: #81 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Depending on the situation, sometimes just one or two.
I just feel bad for those 23 people who had to be subjected to people like the Bachmanns and then trotted out like tokens of what an altruistic loving etc person she must be.
The conventional wisdom is that they all ought to be grateful for whatever treatment they get, but that isn't always true.
Maybe she's better at home than abroad. I can always hope.
Or, maybe they'll write a book, derail her political career, and make enough money to buy themselves something nice...I can always hope for that, too.
| 134 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:25:09pm |
re: #129 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I don't believe any family that is so transparently bigoted are 'good parents', period
That woman's psycho husband should be in jail for that reparative therapy shit, it's psychological abuse
| 135 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:25:12pm |
re: #131 prairiefire
I think it was in a movie...
ah!
I mean, I can't see spending ones life with a pie, but if it works for you . . .
| 136 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:25:36pm |
re: #94 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I don't. I don't see anything noble or novel about authoritarian bigots like the Bachmanns who take in society's most vulnerable. Especially the ones who use it for bragging rights. In fact, I find it potentially very insidious.
Anybody ever heard anything from these young adults? She's running for president, I find it odd that no one has said anything about it, regardless of whether they were decent parents or not.
[Video]
Maybe they're...waiting.
:)
| 137 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:25:54pm |
re: #121 ggt
Her kids were probably kept so busy with school, sports, chores and church activities that they didn't have time to think about their sexuality. She seems the picture perfect soccer mom to me.
Not that I think that is necessarily a good thing.. . .But overall, they probably had a busy and healthy life, family dinners etc.
Not saying that it would be good to appear effeminate or "butch" in that crowd, but it probably wasn't an problem either.
In reality, we just have no idea. It wouldn't even be an issue if she didn't keep trotting out 23 individuals she supposedly "raised" to score superiority points.
Worse than Ned Flanders. Same alma mater, too. /
| 139 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:27:09pm |
re: #129 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
That post wasn't directed at me, but I did say from the outset my own sentiment is totally subjective.
But then, so are these odd presumptions that they were good parents, let alone some kind of model they hold themselves up to emulate. There is no reason to give them any benefit of any doubt. They sure wouldn't to their LGBT parent peers, to whom they believe they are superior. I call bollocks on that.
I'd be glad to hear from ANY of the infamous, nameless, faceless 23 trotted out tokens. There's bound to be a few who think they were just fine. No one ever seems to think to ask about them, though.
There's the possibility that she raised them real well...... who knows? You can't use "well she's a conservative so she couldn't have" as an argument.
| 140 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:27:24pm |
re: #137 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
In reality, we just have no idea. It wouldn't even be an issue if she didn't keep trotting out 23 individuals she supposedly "raised" to score superiority points.
Worse than Ned Flanders. Same alma mater, too. /
True, she is overplaying it.
| 141 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:28:00pm |
re: #129 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
That post wasn't directed at me, but I did say from the outset my own sentiment is totally subjective.
But then, so are these odd presumptions that they were good parents, let alone some kind of model they hold themselves up to emulate. There is no reason to give them any benefit of any doubt. They sure wouldn't to their LGBT parent peers, to whom they believe they are superior. I call bollocks on that.
I'd be glad to hear from ANY of the infamous, nameless, faceless 23 trotted out tokens. There's bound to be a few who think they were just fine. No one ever seems to think to ask about them, though.
if she becomes the nominee, it's gonna be a ZOO, all the shit coming out about that family, it'll be hella weird, weirder than palin I bet
It just depends whether the GOp brass have control over the grassroots. if they can game it, it'll be Romney. Romney will play whatever ball they need him to play, and they'll set him up with some weak-sauce tea-party candidate token as his VP.
But if the inmates are running the asylum, it could easily be Bachmann, In the democratic primary early on, the conventional wisdom was 100% Hillary.
| 142 |
calochortus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:28:02pm |
IIRC she and her husband provided short term care (a few months to a year or so) to girls with eating disorders over the period of a few years. She didn't "raise" them however much she may or may not have done for them.
| 143 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:28:14pm |
| 144 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:28:27pm |
re: #139 Mr Pancakes
There's the possibility that she raised them real well... who knows? You can't use "well she's a
conservativeWhacko so she couldn't have" as an argument.
Please, use the right label. There are Whackos who are not conservatives and there are conservatives who are not Whacko.
| 145 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:29:53pm |
re: #142 calochortus
IIRC she and her husband provided short term care (a few months to a year or so) to girls with eating disorders over the period of a few years. She didn't "raise" them however much she may or may not have done for them.
She makes it sound like they had so many children in the house they had to have dormitory type bunk rooms.
| 146 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:30:14pm |
re: #136 SanFranciscoZionist
Maybe they're...waiting.
:)
Lol I bet they are talking amongst themselves. Furiously. lol
| 147 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:30:24pm |
re: #144 ggt
Please, use the right label. There are Whackos who are not conservatives and there are conservatives who are not Whacko.
And we'll see this cycle if the wackos have the power to control the GOP's nominee!
| 148 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:30:35pm |
re: #144 ggt
Please, use the right label. There are Whackos who are not conservatives and there are conservatives who are not Whacko.
Quite Concur.
| 149 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:30:36pm |
re: #144 ggt
Please, use the right label. There are Whackos who are not conservatives and there are conservatives who are not Whacko.
Which reminds me. A lot of good people were raised by whacko parents. Heck, according to my experience most people had whacko parents of one form or another.
| 150 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:30:52pm |
re: #129 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
That post wasn't directed at me, but I did say from the outset my own sentiment is totally subjective.
But then, so are these odd presumptions that they were good parents, let alone some kind of model they hold themselves up to emulate. There is no reason to give them any benefit of any doubt. They sure wouldn't to their LGBT parent peers, to whom they believe they are superior. I call bollocks on that.
I'd be glad to hear from ANY of the infamous, nameless, faceless 23 trotted out tokens. There's bound to be a few who think they were just fine. No one ever seems to think to ask about them, though.
I haven't really gotten any idea from her blurbs how long any of these 23 lived with them. If it was a transitional thing, they may not even remember the Bachmanns, except as part of list.
I seriously can't make out what they're describing, since the point is to make her sound like a saint, not give me any idea how many kids they can living with them for how long at any one time.
| 151 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:30:57pm |
re: #144 ggt
Please, use the right label. There are Whackos who are not conservatives and there are conservatives who are not Whacko.
Kids grow up with their own minds (believe me I know)......... doesn't prove that they mirrored her views in any way.... more speculation.
| 152 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:33:31pm |
OT: That "aborted fetal tissue and autism" stuff we were talking about is getting some Scienceblogs attention, as Orac drops the logic hammer on the blockhead who advanced the talking point.
| 153 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:36:35pm |
Plus my experience has been that after a certain age your prime objective becomes, a) avoid your parents and b) think opposite of the way they think.
| 154 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:37:24pm |
re: #142 calochortus
IIRC she and her husband provided short term care (a few months to a year or so) to girls with eating disorders over the period of a few years. She didn't "raise" them however much she may or may not have done for them.
She makes it sound like they had so many children in the house they had to have dormatory type bunkrooms.
| 155 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:38:02pm |
What does it mean when your apple cursor turns into a multi-color spinning disk and won't change back?
I just did a force quit.
| 156 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:39:06pm |
re: #139 Mr Pancakes
There's the possibility that she raised them real well... who knows? You can't use "well she's a conservative so she couldn't have" as an argument.
That's not the argument. I keep saying what's in bold, myself.
The argument is specific to Michele Bachman. I'm only saying she's given no reason to trust anything coming out of her trap. Not about traditional family values, not about what she supposedly knows about parenting, not about these 23 people she allegedly "raised", not any of those conservative bona-fides.
We see what she says about her own family who is gay (/eyeroll, how many times have I heard that worn-out old "they're not very gay" line). Why trust she'd do well by any foster kid gay or otherwise non-conforming?
| 157 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:39:42pm |
re: #155 ggt
What does it mean when your apple cursor turns into a multi-color spinning disk and won't change back?
I just did a force quit.
I dunno....... I've never seen a cursor shaped like an apple.
| 158 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:42:22pm |
re: #152 Dark_Falcon
OT: That "aborted fetal tissue and autism" stuff we were talking about is getting some Scienceblogs attention, as Orac drops the logic hammer on the blockhead who advanced the talking point.
Thank you, I posted it to my friends fb.
| 159 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:42:41pm |
re: #144 ggt
Please, use the right label. There are Whackos who are not conservatives and there are conservatives who are not Whacko.
Michele Bachmann is a conservative whacko. A whacko who is also conservative. A person who is both conservative and whacko.
The two categories are not mutually exclusive.
I need to draw up a Venn diagram. :)
| 160 |
calochortus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:42:45pm |
re: #154 ggt
She makes it sound like they had so many children in the house they had to have dormatory type bunkrooms.
Once again, dredging the back of my memory-I don't think they were licensed to have more than 3 foster children at a time.
I think it is a fine thing to try to help troubled children, I'm just not crazy about trying to turn it into "The Waltons" on steroids.
| 161 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:43:38pm |
re: #156 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
That's not the argument. I keep saying what's in bold, myself.
The argument is specific to Michele Bachman. I'm only saying she's given no reason to trust anything coming out of her trap. Not about traditional family values, not about what she supposedly knows about parenting, not about these 23 people she allegedly "raised", not any of those conservative bona-fides.
We see what she says about her own family who is gay (/eyeroll, how many times have I heard that worn-out old "they're not very gay" line). Why trust she'd do well by any foster kid gay or otherwise non-conforming?
I can see this is very close to your heart so I'll bow out....... I'm just saying we can't possibly know how her 23 turned out. We can speculate, we can guess, but we don't really know.
| 162 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:44:04pm |
re: #155 ggt
What does it mean when your apple cursor turns into a multi-color spinning disk and won't change back?
I just did a force quit.
I would do a restart. If it persists, run Disk Warrior from Alsoft. [Link: www.alsoft.com...]
| 164 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:46:34pm |
re: #161 Mr Pancakes
I can see this is very close to your heart so I'll bow out... I'm just saying we can't possibly know how her 23 turned out. We can speculate, we can guess, but we don't really know.
I agree. I've been saying that the whole time. I've also been saying afaic, she's given no reason to trust her claims about her kids, the 23 fosters, or anything else.
| 165 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:47:28pm |
re: #159 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Michele Bachmann is a conservative whacko. A whacko who is also conservative. A person who is both conservative and whacko.
The two categories are not mutually exclusive.
I need to draw up a Venn diagram. :)
Just draw several different lines leading from Michelle Bachmann to various issues and characteristics, then have them all converge again on the word "DERP!" and you'll be good to go. ;)
| 166 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:48:22pm |
re: #165 Dark_Falcon
Just draw several different lines leading from Michelle Bachmann to various issues and characteristics, then have them all converge again on the word "DERP!" and you'll be good to go. ;)
I think she is way beyond anything I know as conservative.
| 167 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:49:07pm |
re: #165 Dark_Falcon
Just draw several different lines leading from Michelle Bachmann to various issues and characteristics, then have them all converge again on the word "DERP!" and you'll be good to go. ;)
So true.
| 168 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:49:48pm |
| 169 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:51:45pm |
re: #166 ggt
I think she is way beyond anything I know as conservative.
There are a lot of different kinds of cons of which Bachmann is one. A lot of cons don't relate to her, but then, I don't relate to those assholes at Firedog Lake, HP and Counterpunch. I'd be engaging in wishful thinking if I said they're not really on the left.
| 170 |
What, me worry? Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:51:51pm |
One can foster a few kids at a time for a specified period. Could be months or a year or more.
You receive a stipend from the state for each child, plus the state usually takes care of medical expenses. It varies from state to state.
I never fostered or was fostered, but I went to school with a number of foster kids over the years. All of them where in homes that had a religious bent. I'm not sure if their churches also contributed funding. Possibly. One friend of mine was in the system most of her life. She had a down-syndrome sister and the state managed to keep them together, which was nice, but she lived in many foster homes. I can't remember now, 8 or 9 maybe?
My friend was a wild girl... think "minister's daughter" type. Ooo I got into a lot of trouble with her! She personally wasn't religious, to say the least, but she appreciated most of her foster families and what they did for her.
Even so, foster kids tend to be messed up. Shuttled from home to home, you can imagine, but it's still better than being in a group home. Any child would rather have some semblance of a normal life even if it's for a short time. That's not a comment on Bachmann's family. But fostering, by and large, is a very good thing.
| 171 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:54:21pm |
Parents will want to raise their children as they see fit. We might not always agree with the way other parents raise their children or instill certain values but the general common sense rule is to let them parent as they see fit as long as they adhere to the basic laws regarding physical child abuse.
There are no codified laws regarding ideological, religious, moral, ethical, or whatever limiting or regulating the way parents raise their children. Here, the limitations would be quantifiable and provable psychological abuse. The Establishment Clause, ironically, expressly prohibits the state from becoming involved in religious mores and I would add even secular mores.
Michele Bachmann, while I highly disagree with her on this issue (as well as others) she is well within her right if she so chooses to raise her children with the morals and values she expresses here. I am confident that I would also find the ACLU in agreement with this assessment.
Perhaps I went off on a tangent.
| 172 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:57:33pm |
re: #171 Gus 802
Parents will want to raise their children as they see fit. We might not always agree with the way other parents raise their children or instill certain values but the general common sense rule is to let them parent as they see fit as long as they adhere to the basic laws regarding physical child abuse.
There are no codified laws regarding ideological, religious, moral, ethical, or whatever limiting or regulating the way parents raise their children. Here, the limitations would be quantifiable and provable psychological abuse. The Establishment and Free Exercise Clauses, ironically, expressly prohibits the state from becoming involved in religious mores and I would add even secular mores.
Michele Bachmann, while I highly disagree with her on this issue (as well as others) she is well within her right if she so chooses to raise her children with the morals and values she expresses here. I am confident that I would also find the ACLU in agreement with this assessment.
Perhaps I went off on a tangent.
Slight alteration for maximum accuracy, but otherwise spot on.
| 173 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:58:26pm |
re: #170 marjoriemoon
But fostering, by and large, is a very good thing.
I benefited greatly by having foster brothers and sisters...... yes my parents were Christian and raised us all that way........ I think it gave my sister solace when she died of leukemia in 1966.
| 174 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 9:59:36pm |
re: #141 WindUpBird
if she becomes the nominee, it's gonna be a ZOO, all the shit coming out about that family, it'll be hella weird, weirder than palin I bet
It just depends whether the GOp brass have control over the grassroots. if they can game it, it'll be Romney. Romney will play whatever ball they need him to play, and they'll set him up with some weak-sauce tea-party candidate token as his VP.
But if the inmates are running the asylum, it could easily be Bachmann, In the democratic primary early on, the conventional wisdom was 100% Hillary.
Yeah, I keep saying the same thing. In 2012, anything's possible. I used to get on my friends from my side of the aisle, joking about wanting Palin or Bachmann to be the GOTP nominee because it would be oh-so hilarious.
I was like, really? After Carl Paladino, Allen West, Sharron Angle, Chistine O'Donnell and the other whackjobs the tea party put on ballots in 2010, you'd be laughing at Bachmann at the top of the ticket??
Personally, I don't think she will get the nom, but you're right anything is possible. And now that she's a serious candidate taken seriously, no one thinks it's so funny anymore.
| 175 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:02:15pm |
re: #174 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Yeah, I keep saying the same thing. In 2012, anything's possible. I used to get on my friends from my side of the aisle, joking about wanting Palin or Bachmann to be the GOTP nominee because it would be oh-so hilarious.
I was like, really? After Carl Paladino, Allen West, Sharron Angle, Chistine O'Donnell and the other whackjobs the tea party put on ballots in 2010, you'd be laughing at Bachmann at the top of the ticket??
Personally, I don't think she will get the nom, but you're right anything is possible. And now that she's a serious candidate taken seriously, no one thinks it's so funny anymore.
Think she'll campaign in San Francisco? I'd love to hear that speech.
| 176 |
What, me worry? Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:03:16pm |
re: #173 Mr Pancakes
I benefited greatly by having foster brothers and sisters... yes my parents were Christian and raised us all that way... I think it gave my sister solace when she died of leukemia in 1966.
I'm sure it did.
This was in the 70s and I'm sure things have changed a lot since then, but I think the general principle is the same. Fostering and adoption is a blessing unless there's clear abuse of the kids which I don't think is usual. Not unheard of, of course.
| 177 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:07:33pm |
re: #175 ggt
Think she'll campaign in San Francisco? I'd love to hear that speech.
No. California is hostile territory for her. She'll make a fund-raising visit to the OC, but nothing beyond that.
| 178 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:08:21pm |
re: #177 Dark_Falcon
No. California is hostile territory for her. She'll make a fund-raising visit to the OC, but nothing beyond that.
What about Florida?
| 179 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:09:54pm |
re: #172 Dark_Falcon
Slight alteration for maximum accuracy, but otherwise spot on.
Thanks. I guess you can see what I mean by slippery slope. Long story short is that people are free to be bigots -- as I would see them -- and that includes parents and parenting. There would be many details we could add to this, including limitations as I mentioned, but that's the general gist of life in a free society. A free society comes with risks.
| 180 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:11:29pm |
re: #178 ggt
What about Florida?
She'll campaign in Florida, because she has to. It's a must-win state for Republicans, so she'll be there.
| 181 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:11:55pm |
re: #179 Gus 802
Thanks. I guess you can see what I mean by slippery slope. Long story short is that people are free to be bigots -- as I would see them -- and that includes parents and parenting. There would be many details we could add to this, including limitations as I mentioned, but that's the general gist of life in a free society. A free society comes with risks.
Just so.
| 182 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:11:56pm |
re: #173 Mr Pancakes
I benefited greatly by having foster brothers and sisters... yes my parents were Christian and raised us all that way... I think it gave my sister solace when she died of leukemia in 1966.
I never knew how much being raised in the RC church affected me until we lost a young person in the family.
Just being part of a larger spiritual community was sooo comforting.
I still don't go to Church, tho.
| 183 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:11:56pm |
re: #177 Dark_Falcon
No. California is hostile territory for her. She'll make a fund-raising visit to the OC, but nothing beyond that.
Central valleys and northeast California. Generally eastern California.
| 184 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:13:55pm |
She won't make it past Iowa though. It'll be Romney after that.
| 185 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:13:58pm |
re: #182 ggt
I never knew how much being raised in the RC church affected me until we lost a young person in the family.
Just being part of a larger spiritual community was sooo comforting.
I still don't go to Church, tho.
Same here..... I'm an agnostic....... I have good feelings about the way I was raised.... I wouldn't trade them for anything.
| 186 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:15:30pm |
re: #171 Gus 802
Parents will want to raise their children as they see fit. We might not always agree with the way other parents raise their children or instill certain values but the general common sense rule is to let them parent as they see fit as long as they adhere to the basic laws regarding physical child abuse.
There are no codified laws regarding ideological, religious, moral, ethical, or whatever limiting or regulating the way parents raise their children. Here, the limitations would be quantifiable and provable psychological abuse. The Establishment Clause, ironically, expressly prohibits the state from becoming involved in religious mores and I would add even secular mores.
Michele Bachmann, while I highly disagree with her on this issue (as well as others) she is well within her right if she so chooses to raise her children with the morals and values she expresses here. I am confident that I would also find the ACLU in agreement with this assessment.
Perhaps I went off on a tangent.
I've never heard anyone say the Bachmanns don't have a right to their whackjob, bigoted religious views. Or even to shove them down the throats of society's most vulnerable kids.
But she's also not entitled to any benefits of doubts. These superior morals/family values types hold up their trotted-out families as if everyone is supposed to be like them.
So it's a fair question to ask, especially given the Bachmann's bigoted statements in public against all manner of people, how do they treat such kids when the cameras are off, were they to come across them in the course of things.
IIRC, they are all adults now and out of the Bachmann house. If none want to speak up, that's their prerogative, who could blame them. But I hope someone is able to, whatever their report.
| 187 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:17:32pm |
re: #184 Gus 802
She won't make it past Iowa though. It'll be Romney after that.
Romney will win New Hampshire walking away. That will cut into any Bachmann momentum, but it won't destroy it, since Romney's win there will be expected.
| 188 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:18:31pm |
I'd love to witness the cognitive dissonance when she loses. Is that evil?
She truly believes she is on a Mission from God.
| 189 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:19:31pm |
re: #175 ggt
Think she'll campaign in San Francisco? I'd love to hear that speech.
Honestly? I could see her coming to some place like Santa Clara or Orinda or one of those. I don't doubt those tea party wives would welcome it.
| 190 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:20:20pm |
re: #188 ggt
I'd love to witness the cognitive dissonance when she loses. Is that evil?
She truly believes she is on a Mission from God.
Yeah, but she won't be able to get the band back together.
| 191 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:20:48pm |
re: #186 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I've never heard anyone say the Bachmanns don't have a right to their whackjob, bigoted religious views. Or even to shove them down the throats of society's most vulnerable kids.
But she's also not entitled to any benefits of doubts. These superior morals/family values types hold up their trotted-out families as if everyone is supposed to be like them.
So it's a fair question to ask, especially given the Bachmann's bigoted statements in public against all manner of people, how do they treat such kids when the cameras are off, were they to come across them in the course of things.
IIRC, they are all adults now and out of the Bachmann house. If none want to speak up, that's their prerogative, who could blame them. But I hope someone is able to, whatever their report.
I'm sorry but I'm not interested in learning anything from her children unless they come forward on their own. My general rule in politics remains to leave the children and spouses out of it unless they are involved legally or illegally in the campaign. This rule does not change even with the information presented here regarding Bachmann. It's a no-fly zone for me.
| 192 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:23:10pm |
re: #191 Gus 802
I'm sorry but I'm not interested in learning anything from her children unless they come forward on their own. My general rule in politics remains to leave the children and spouses out of it unless they are involved legally or illegally in the campaign. This rule does not change even with the information presented here regarding Bachmann. It's a no-fly zone for me.
I don't know Gus, she's promoted those 23 FOSTER KIDS so much, I think it's fair game.
| 193 |
engineer cat Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:23:18pm |
bachmann might get washed out in the tide if perry runs
| 194 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:23:30pm |
re: #190 Dark_Falcon
Yeah, but she won't be able to get the band back together.
Is that a bad thing?
| 195 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:24:13pm |
re: #193 engineer dog
bachmann might get washed out in the tide if perry runs
Definitely, he might have a chance.
| 196 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:25:15pm |
re: #185 Mr Pancakes
Same here... I'm an agnostic... I have good feelings about the way I was raised... I wouldn't trade them for anything.
Well, I went to RC school. I'd trade some of those memories. But that is par for the course.
| 197 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:25:49pm |
| 198 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:25:59pm |
re: #193 engineer dog
bachmann might get washed out in the tide if perry runs
Thing is, the closer we get to August, the more convinced I become he's not going to run. Just as running too early can lead to fatigue, running too late can mean all the big cash donators have already chosen a candidate and will be reluctant to jump ship.
| 199 |
What, me worry? Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:26:41pm |
re: #191 Gus 802
I'm sorry but I'm not interested in learning anything from her children unless they come forward on their own. My general rule in politics remains to leave the children and spouses out of it unless they are involved legally or illegally in the campaign. This rule does not change even with the information presented here regarding Bachmann. It's a no-fly zone for me.
The only issue, though, is when the candidate trots out the kids to score some Brownie points. And I can see where that's irritating and manipulative. Everyone thought Joan Crawford was an caring and giving woman.
My worry with Bachmann, since she and her husband are such nuts, is that it would turn people off from the fostering or adoption experience and that would be terrible.
| 200 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:26:49pm |
re: #197 Dark_Falcon
No, it's not. The line was just a Blues Brothers reference.
I KNOW!
but getting the Bachman band back together. I can see it now, a "Rollin' for Jesus" bus. . . .
| 201 |
Lidane Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:28:03pm |
re: #184 Gus 802
She won't make it past Iowa though. It'll be Romney after that.
And then she'll be forced on him as his VP by the mouth breathers, since the wingnut base hates Romney for being a rich Mormon patrician Masshole who created the health care plan that Obama passed, and who's flipped on every issue they care about.
| 202 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:28:10pm |
re: #196 ggt
Well, I went to RC school. I'd trade some of those memories. But that is par for the course.
I went to public school....... I'd trade some of those memories for sure. I hated school for the most part cuz we moved all the time.
| 203 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:28:12pm |
re: #192 ggt
I don't know Gus, she's promoted those 23 FOSTER KIDS so much, I think it's fair game.
Sure. But those 23 foster kids didn't promote themselves either. They're still entitled to their privacy. In essence we then don't do it for her sake. We do it for their sake and their privacy. She promoted them, yes. But that doesn't entitle us to know every intimate detail.
| 204 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:29:06pm |
re: #189 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Honestly? I could see her coming to some place like Santa Clara or Orinda or one of those. I don't doubt those tea party wives would welcome it.
If she makes it that far, she'll be coming through California. We currently swing blue, but we have a substantial red population with big red checkbooks. The infamous OC, of course, but there will be other stops.
| 205 |
makeitstop Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:29:07pm |
This one goes out to Mr. $ Mrs. Bachmann. (WUB, ever seen this band?)
| 206 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:29:56pm |
re: #203 Gus 802
Sure. But those 23 foster kids didn't promote themselves either. They're still entitled to their privacy. In essence we then don't do it for her sake. We do it for their sake and their privacy. She promoted them, yes. But that doesn't entitle us to know every intimate detail.
No, but with the numbers, you'd think one of them would come forward.
| 207 |
Winny Spencer Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:29:57pm |
Mittens refuses to sign the insanity/marriage pledge.
| 208 |
Lidane Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:30:21pm |
re: #198 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Thing is, the closer we get to August, the more convinced I become he's not going to run. Just as running too early can lead to fatigue, running too late can mean all the big cash donators have already chosen a candidate and will be reluctant to jump ship.
Personally, I think if Goodhair is angling for anything, it's for the VP slot. He's not going to run, but he'll position himself as a reliable wingnut lunatic for the base, so when the nominee is chosen, he'll get tossed around as a safe VP choice.
| 209 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:30:41pm |
re: #206 ggt
No, but with the numbers, you'd think one of them would come forward.
If they do then that would be different as I mentioned earlier.
| 210 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:30:56pm |
re: #206 ggt
No, but with the numbers, you'd think one of them would come forward.
But one could come forward and say that she was a great mom. ?!?!?
| 211 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:31:16pm |
| 212 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:31:40pm |
re: #210 Mr Pancakes
But one could come forward and say that she was a great mom. ?!?!?
ANd that would be fine.
| 213 |
Winny Spencer Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:31:52pm |
| 214 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:32:00pm |
re: #201 Lidane
And then she'll be forced on him as his VP by the mouth breathers, since the wingnut base hates Romney for being a rich Mormon patrician Masshole who created the health care plan that Obama passed, and who's flipped on every issue they care about.
Which would be a grievous error on Romney's part. Could happen though.
| 215 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:32:44pm |
re: #214 Gus 802
Which would be a grievous error on Romney's part. Could happen though.
YOu think they'd have learned after Palin . . .
| 216 |
Lidane Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:32:49pm |
re: #214 Gus 802
Which would be a grievous error on Romney's part. Could happen though.
It HAS happened. See: McCain, John.
| 217 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:33:06pm |
re: #207 Winny Spencer
Mittens refuses to sign the insanity/marriage pledge.
Coincidently his great grandfather had at least four wives.
| 218 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:33:31pm |
re: #213 Winny Spencer
I do concur, of course.
Assuming Mittens is your Cat Overord, that is a wise decision.
| 219 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:33:57pm |
re: #208 Lidane
Personally, I think if Goodhair is angling for anything, it's for the VP slot. He's not going to run, but he'll position himself as a reliable wingnut lunatic for the base, so when the nominee is chosen, he'll get tossed around as a safe VP choice.
Yeah, but I do agree that someone like Bachmann will be more likely to end up on the short list. I can see the argument now: Reliable "conservative," sells well with the base, and has legislative experience which will help in working with Congress.
| 220 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:34:14pm |
| 221 |
Lidane Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:34:38pm |
re: #213 Winny Spencer
I do concur, of course.
Because refusing to sign a pledge means he's qualified to be POTUS?
| 222 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:35:26pm |
re: #221 Lidane
Because refusing to sign a pledge means he's qualified to be POTUS?
No, it means he is not bat-shit crazy. Which is a qualification . . .
| 223 |
Lidane Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:35:46pm |
re: #217 goddamnedfrank
Coincidently his great grandfather had at least four wives.
And his father was born in Mexico. Does that make Mitt an anchor baby?
///
| 224 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:36:05pm |
re: #216 Lidane
It HAS happened. See: McCain, John.
He should simply refuse and let the worst of them flounce. He needs to make it clear that either the whole party is willing to get the votes needed to put a Republican in the White House or its 4 more years of Obama. Those are the options.
| 225 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:36:09pm |
re: #223 Lidane
And his father was born in Mexico. Does that make Mitt an anchor baby?
///
do we need to see is birth certificate?
| 226 |
Lidane Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:37:41pm |
re: #222 ggt
No, it means he is not bat-shit crazy. Which is a qualification . . .
That's the problem for the GOP base. He's not batshit crazy and he looks like the guy who laid them off.
Plus, he's a rich Mormon from Massachusetts who passed the same health care plan they all hate. Why in the hell would they vote for him?
| 227 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:38:16pm |
re: #222 ggt
No, it means he is not bat-shit crazy. Which is a qualification . . .
He signed the Norquist pledge, so he's just not as bat-shit crazy as Bachmann and whoever else signs the marriage pledge.
| 228 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:38:17pm |
re: #201 Lidane
And then she'll be forced on him as his VP by the mouth breathers, since the wingnut base hates Romney for being a rich Mormon patrician Masshole who created the health care plan that Obama passed, and who's flipped on every issue they care about.
We have a winnah. This will happen again because it's the only way the nutcases will vote for Mittens. And every second after that they'll be praying for his death so that Sistah M can get teh foosball and start Armageddon...
| 229 |
Lidane Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:39:35pm |
re: #227 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
He signed the Norquist pledge, so he's just not as bat-shit crazy as Bachmann and whoever else signs the marriage pledge.
So he's just a batshit crazy "fiscal conservative" instead of a batshit crazy theocrat.
| 230 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:39:45pm |
re: #226 Lidane
That's the problem for the GOP base. He's not batshit crazy and he looks like the guy who laid them off.
Plus, he's a rich Mormon from Massachusetts who passed the same health care plan they all hate. Why in the hell would they vote for him?
I'm a conservative I don't care that he's Mormon and I want a health care plan better than what I have now, which is nothing.
| 231 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:39:46pm |
re: #226 Lidane
That's the problem for the GOP base. He's not batshit crazy and he looks like the guy who laid them off.
Plus, he's a rich Mormon from Massachusetts who passed the same health care plan they all hate. Why in the hell would they vote for him?
eh, my error.
I didn't get the Mittens reference.
I am constantly vigilant to not insult the Cat Overlord and Mittens seemed like a cat name to me. I assumed the poster was referring to his Overlord.
| 232 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:40:23pm |
re: #224 Dark_Falcon
He should simply refuse and let the worst of them flounce. He needs to make it clear that either the whole party is willing to get the votes needed to put a Republican in the White House or its 4 more years of Obama. Those are the options.
Only way I see that happening is if he goes to the convention with a commanding lead in terms of delegates, such that he can afford to piss them off. If he and the next guy are close enough, they may threaten him with supporting the next guy in line, so long as whoever it is is willing to agree to the delegates demand for a wingnut VP.
| 233 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:40:52pm |
I am currently abstaining from endorsing any candidate. I'll wait until it is actually 2012 and the field is clearer.
| 234 |
Lidane Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:41:27pm |
re: #230 Mr Pancakes
I'm a conservative I don't care that he's Mormon and I want a health care plan better than what I have now, which is nothing.
The Mormon thing is a HUGE issue for evangelicals in the South. Mormons are barely a half-step above Satanists for the fundie crowd. They won't vote for Mittens for that reason alone. Just look how he did back in 2008.
| 235 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:42:04pm |
re: #234 Lidane
The Mormon thing is a HUGE issue for evangelicals in the South. Mormons are barely a half-step above Satanists for the fundie crowd. They won't vote for Mittens for that reason alone. Just look how he did back in 2008.
But will they vote for Obama? Or just not vote.
| 236 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:42:12pm |
Romney not signing the pledge makes sense from his perspective, even leaving for a moment its craziness. He's making his move in New Hampshire, not Iowa, so signing wouldn't help him at his point of primary (pardon the pun) effort. Moreover, refusing to sign let's him stand up to a loony wingnut and thus curry favor with the independents he'll need to win in November. If he's able to win the primaries without getting pulled too far to the right, he gives himself a better shot. Romney and his staff are thinking several moves ahead. I'd wager they're better chess players than Bachmann and her staff.
| 237 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:42:45pm |
| 238 |
Lidane Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:43:09pm |
re: #235 ggt
But will they vote for Obama? Or just not vote.
They'll stay home or they'll beg Caribou Barbie to make a third party run.
| 239 |
Targetpractice Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:43:12pm |
re: #235 ggt
But will they vote for Obama? Or just not vote.
Think the biggest worry from the leadership is that a third party candidate will rise up and try to seize the Tea Party vote. They're shivering right now that another Perot is hiding in the bushes, waiting to jump out and split the votes on Election Day.
| 240 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:44:08pm |
re: #238 Lidane
They'll stay home or they'll beg Caribou Barbie to make a third party run.
further splitting the Party.
It is going to be comical and tragic . . .
| 241 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:44:17pm |
re: #217 goddamnedfrank
Coincidently his great grandfather had at least four wives.
One of my good friends has learned that her g-g-g-g-grandfather went to jail, back in the day in Utah, for having three wives. They called it 'doing time for your cohabs', apparently.
Interesting man, by all accounts. He trained in medicine in England, but when he came out West, the church wanted him to farm. I cannot imagine why, they must have needed doctors. I suspect there is a long story behind it. He married his first wife in England, and his second, who they had known at home, when she was widowed. The third wife was eighteen and he was middle-aged when they married. The oldest boy in the family wrote later about watching his moms cry as they made him a shirt to be married in again...apparently they were not too happy about the addition to the family.
| 242 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:44:28pm |
re: #238 Lidane
They'll stay home or they'll beg Caribou Barbie to make a third party run.
I think he was talking about election day.
| 243 |
Lidane Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:44:50pm |
re: #236 Dark_Falcon
Being a better chess player now won't mean shit if Romney ends up being forced to take Bachmann or some other lunatic for his VP.
| 244 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:45:22pm |
re: #224 Dark_Falcon
He should simply refuse and let the worst of them flounce. He needs to make it clear that either the whole party is willing to get the votes needed to put a Republican in the White House or its 4 more years of Obama. Those are the options.
The options and the facts. Romney and the GOP need to remember that they should also be seeking the support of independents and even some Democrats. Historically we have the Reagan Democrats. The crossover vote is slight but there. The independent vote is huge. Or:
The Gallup Daily tracking poll, initiated in 2008, shows similar party identification figures for 2010 -- 32% Democratic, 28% Republican, and 37% independent.
Independent voters favored the GOP in 2010. They didn't gain the Senate but won the House. They could have won the Senate had they not put forward the two crazies O'Donnell and Angle. There, they lost the independent vote. It's a clear example.
My non-partisan assessment.
| 245 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:45:31pm |
re: #234 Lidane
The Mormon thing is a HUGE issue for evangelicals in the South. Mormons are barely a half-step above Satanists for the fundie crowd. They won't vote for Mittens for that reason alone. Just look how he did back in 2008.
"Don't they believe that Jesus is Satan's brother...?"
That was subtle, Huck.
| 246 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:45:45pm |
re: #176 marjoriemoon
I'm sure it did.
This was in the 70s and I'm sure things have changed a lot since then, but I think the general principle is the same. Fostering and adoption is a blessing unless there's clear abuse of the kids which I don't think is usual. Not unheard of, of course.
It's actually quite often in the news.
May:
Foster father goes on trial in sex abuse case
April:
Minister To Face Trial On Child Abuse Charges
March:
7-month-old had bruised ribs, lacerated liver, bruised spleen, more after beating: prosectuors
October:
10-6-10 ROGUE RIVER MAN GETS MORE THAN 5 YEARS IN JAIL FOR SEXUALLY ABUSING 12YR OLD GIRL
Feb 2010:
Petaluma man charged with molesting foster child
This is just a sampling from physical and sexual abuse (and murder) in foster care, not counting adoption and residential care.
Yet the Bachmanns, AFA, FRC, and the bigots who throw them money will tell you gay parents abuse children so it should be outlawed. /eyeroll
No wonder they demand abortion be criminalized. Where else are they going to get their supply of children to kick around when the pipes dry up. / a googol of /'s
| 247 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:46:30pm |
re: #235 ggt
But will they vote for Obama? Or just not vote.
The religious right will not turn out for Obama (individuals who belong to such churches or organizations may, but they will do on their own).
But they have demonstrated in the past that they will stay home in large numbers if the Republican nominee is not to their liking.
| 248 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:46:41pm |
re: #232 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds
Only way I see that happening is if he goes to the convention with a commanding lead in terms of delegates, such that he can afford to piss them off. If he and the next guy are close enough, they may threaten him with supporting the next guy in line, so long as whoever it is is willing to agree to the delegates demand for a wingnut VP.
He could always say "Fine. Go support that guy. The convention will end up a train wreck and you'll be looking at Obama walking to reelection. Is that really what you want?" Romney's message to the base needs to be that he's much better than OBama and that he alone can assemble the coalition of voters that can defeat Obama. That last might or might not be true, but it should be part of his 'internal' message.
| 249 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:47:05pm |
re: #246 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
It's actually quite often in the news.
May:
Foster father goes on trial in sex abuse caseApril:
Minister To Face Trial On Child Abuse ChargesMarch:
7-month-old had bruised ribs, lacerated liver, bruised spleen, more after beating: prosectuorsOctober:
10-6-10 ROGUE RIVER MAN GETS MORE THAN 5 YEARS IN JAIL FOR SEXUALLY ABUSING 12YR OLD GIRLFeb 2010:
Petaluma man charged with molesting foster childThis is just a sampling from physical and sexual abuse (and murder) in foster care, not counting adoption and residential care.
Yet the Bachmanns, AFA, FRC, and the bigots who throw them money will tell you gay parents abuse children so it should be outlawed. /eyeroll
No wonder they demand abortion be criminalized. Where else are they going to get their supply of children to kick around when the pipes dry up. / a googol of /'s
I'm not even going to go there..... but feel free.
| 251 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:48:50pm |
re: #247 SanFranciscoZionist
The religious right will not turn out for Obama (individuals who belong to such churches or organizations may, but they will do on their own).
But they have demonstrated in the past that they will stay home in large numbers if the Republican nominee is not to their liking.
Which as it stands would be fine. I'd rather have 4 more years of Obama than any of the nutcases put forward by the GOP.
IANSA is coming up again in 2012, which is my only 2nd Amendment concern at the moment. That will be before the election.
After that my concern is reproductive rights and it seems clear which Party will support Planned Parenthood.
| 252 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:48:58pm |
re: #234 Lidane
The Mormon thing is a HUGE issue for evangelicals in the South. Mormons are barely a half-step above Satanists for the fundie crowd. They won't vote for Mittens for that reason alone. Just look how he did back in 2008.
I've known more than a few who will spin hate for hours about catholics but that's only a warm up for the real evil of the Mormons. Yeah, I can't see big chunks voting for him. They really would rather see Obama (who really is the Anti-christ to some of them) in again than vote for Mittens. It really is that bad for him - that's why he's even worse than Kerry when it comes to flip-flopping. He's desperate to find a formula to get the freaks to vote for him in the primaries.
| 253 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:49:28pm |
re: #246 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
It's actually quite often in the news.
May:
Foster father goes on trial in sex abuse caseApril:
Minister To Face Trial On Child Abuse ChargesMarch:
7-month-old had bruised ribs, lacerated liver, bruised spleen, more after beating: prosectuorsOctober:
10-6-10 ROGUE RIVER MAN GETS MORE THAN 5 YEARS IN JAIL FOR SEXUALLY ABUSING 12YR OLD GIRLFeb 2010:
Petaluma man charged with molesting foster childThis is just a sampling from physical and sexual abuse (and murder) in foster care, not counting adoption and residential care.
Yet the Bachmanns, AFA, FRC, and the bigots who throw them money will tell you gay parents abuse children so it should be outlawed. /eyeroll
No wonder they demand abortion be criminalized. Where else are they going to get their supply of children to kick around when the pipes dry up. / a googol of /'s
And, of course, the same damn thing goes on in biological families all the time.
The way people treat children...bleah.
| 254 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:50:51pm |
re: #248 Dark_Falcon
He could always say "Fine. Go support that guy. The convention will end up a train wreck and you'll be looking at Obama walking to reelection. Is that really what you want?" Romney's message to the base needs to be that he's much better than OBama and that he alone can assemble the coalition of voters that can defeat Obama. That last might or might not be true, but it should be part of his 'internal' message.
At this point, Romney has been thru so much GOP BS that he is probably ready to tell them where to go . . . .
| 255 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:51:21pm |
re: #244 Gus 802
The options and the facts. Romney and the GOP need to remember that they should also be seeking the support of independents and even some Democrats. Historically we have the Reagan Democrats. The crossover vote is slight but there. The independent vote is huge. Or:
Independent voters favored the GOP in 2010. They didn't gain the Senate but won the House. They could have won the Senate had they not put forward the two crazies O'Donnell and Angle. There, they lost the independent vote. It's a clear example.
My non-partisan assessment.
And it's a good one.
| 256 |
goddamnedfrank Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:51:52pm |
re: #248 Dark_Falcon
He could always say "Fine. Go support that guy. The convention will end up a train wreck and you'll be looking at Obama walking to reelection. Is that really what you want?" Romney's message to the base needs to be that he's much better than OBama and that he alone can assemble the coalition of voters that can defeat Obama. That last might or might not be true, but it should be part of his 'internal' message.
Nobody on either side is going to be fooled by Romney's gutless flip flops on abortion, gay rights, or health care. If his game plan is to go into the convention and general as the most convincing spineless liar available he's in for a sisyphean struggle indeed.
| 257 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:52:38pm |
re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist
There is a damn good reason Jesus made his comments about "better a millstone around your neck". But like most of his real teachings, that gets forgotten in the shuffle.
| 258 |
Dark_Falcon Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:52:54pm |
And now I have to get to bed. As always these days I'm up early. Goodnight, all.
| 260 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:54:12pm |
re: #246 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
No wonder they demand abortion be criminalized. Where else are they going to get their supply of children to kick around when the pipes dry up...
Seriously?
| 261 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:55:49pm |
re: #260 Gus 802
Seriously?
I'm giving her a pass on this one....... she shared some of her life story.
| 262 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:56:11pm |
re: #191 Gus 802
I'm sorry but I'm not interested in learning anything from her children unless they come forward on their own.
But I just said that. Who could blame them if no one does? Plus they're not foster children anymore, they are adults and should be regarded as such.
I just think it's interesting we're supposed to admire these public asswipes just because they 'raised' 23 foster children, so she claims. Well, I don't. Others have their own views.
My general rule in politics remains to leave the children and spouses out of it unless they are involved legally or illegally in the campaign. This rule does not change even with the information presented here regarding Bachmann. It's a no-fly zone for me.
I would feel the same as you if she didn't use it as a pretext for her saintly, pious, public image. If she didn't want people talking about it she should STFU about it herself.
| 263 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:56:11pm |
re: #237 Mr Pancakes
Ding Ding Ding... we have a winner!
I'd like to thank my parents, my husband and Jesus Christ from whom all good things come."
/:)
| 264 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:57:42pm |
re: #262 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
But I just said that. Who could blame them if no one does? Plus they're not foster children anymore, they are adults and should be regarded as such.
I just think it's interesting we're supposed to admire these public asswipes just because they 'raised' 23 foster children, so she claims. Well, I don't. Others have their own views.
I would feel the same as you if she didn't use it as a pretext for her saintly, pious, public image. If she didn't want people talking about it she should STFU about it herself.
In her mind, she is on a Mission from God and is Protected . . . .
| 265 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:58:51pm |
re: #207 Winny Spencer
Mittens refuses to sign the insanity/marriage pledge.
They'll just blame it on his religion.
| 266 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 10:59:03pm |
Am currently reading Irshad Manji's new book--anyone else get that?
| 267 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:00:16pm |
re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist
Am currently reading Irshad Manji's new book--anyone else get that?
N, but I like what she's doing. She is interesting.
| 268 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:00:52pm |
re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist
Am currently reading Irshad Manji's new book--anyone else get that?
Nah, still on Colleen McCoullough's First Man in Rome. Even on Audio it is a long damn book . . .
| 269 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:01:22pm |
re: #268 ggt
Nah, still on Colleen McCoullough's First Man in Rome. Even on Audio it is a long damn book . . .
I'll wait for the movie
| 270 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:02:00pm |
re: #269 Mr Pancakes
I'll wait for the movie
Very interesting really. The comparisons to the US are constantly coming to mind.
| 271 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:02:14pm |
I have to sleep, Lizards,
Have a great morning!
| 272 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:02:47pm |
re: #261 Mr Pancakes
I'm giving her a pass on this one... she shared some of her life story.
I saw. I'm still not sure. Falls into the millstone category for me if I'm not sure I believe.
| 273 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:02:49pm |
re: #270 ggt
Very interesting really. The comparisons to the US are constantly coming to mind.
It's hard for me to read...... my eyeballs roll back in my head.
| 274 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:03:35pm |
re: #273 Mr Pancakes
It's hard for me to read... my eyeballs roll back in my head.
has your employer dissed you for it?
night again.
| 275 |
Querent Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:03:37pm |
re: #233 ggt
I am currently abstaining from endorsing any candidate. I'll wait until it is actually 2012 and the field is clearer.
Quetzalcoatl in 2012.
A Snake on a Higher Plane...
| 276 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:03:54pm |
re: #272 wlewisiii
I saw. I'm still not sure. Falls into the millstone category for me if I'm not sure I believe.
I know..... I could get really mad but I'm not going to.
| 277 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:04:19pm |
| 278 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:04:39pm |
re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist
Am currently reading Irshad Manji's new book--anyone else get that?
No - may I please have name/author/etc to find it at the library? If you're reading it, I have no doubts about it.
| 279 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:06:33pm |
re: #278 wlewisiii
No - may I please have name/author/etc to find it at the library? If you're reading it, I have no doubts about it.
Irshad Manji is the author, and the book is "Allah, Love and Liberty". Her first book was 'The Trouble With Islam Today'. Very interesting stuff.
| 280 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:07:28pm |
re: #260 Gus 802
Seriously?
/eyeroll
"/ a googol of /'s"
Anyone who thinks I'm being unfair by making some contrary remarks about Hon. Rep. Bachmann and her trotted-out family, oh well. I'm sure she'll be crushed. //
| 281 |
Genshed Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:07:36pm |
It's flattering, in a way, how these people cannot stop talking about me and my family.
I'd still like them to stop.
| 282 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:09:16pm |
re: #281 Genshed
It's flattering, in a way, how these people cannot stop talking about me and my family.
I'd still like them to stop.
But they CARE so damn much!!!
///
| 283 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:09:34pm |
re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist
Irshad Manji is the author, and the book is "Allah, Love and Liberty". Her first book was 'The Trouble With Islam Today'. Very interesting stuff.
Thank you, I've put them in my notebook and will harrass some poor librarian tomorrow :D (Really, I'lll be there in 10 seconds on their web site but what fun is that to loudly declaim? )
| 284 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:12:03pm |
re: #280 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
/eyeroll
"/ a googol of /'s"
Anyone who thinks I'm being unfair by making some contrary remarks about Hon. Rep. Bachmann and her trotted-out family, oh well. I'm sure she'll be crushed. //
Hey.... whatever floats your boat.......
| 285 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:12:04pm |
re: #272 wlewisiii
I saw. I'm still not sure. Falls into the millstone category for me if I'm not sure I believe.
What's the millstone category?
| 286 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:12:20pm |
re: #279 SanFranciscoZionist
Irshad Manji is the author, and the book is "Allah, Love and Liberty". Her first book was 'The Trouble With Islam Today'. Very interesting stuff.
Ok, both on hold for me. Thank you, SFZ.
| 287 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:13:18pm |
re: #280 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
/eyeroll
"/ a googol of /'s"
Anyone who thinks I'm being unfair by making some contrary remarks about Hon. Rep. Bachmann and her trotted-out family, oh well. I'm sure she'll be crushed. //
Yes. That worked so well for Andrew Sullivan.
| 288 |
engineer cat Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:13:46pm |
heh
jon stewart show's wyatt cenac:
republicans are job creationists
| 289 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:14:15pm |
re: #287 Gus 802
Yes. That worked so well for Andrew Sullivan.
What's Crazy Sully got to do with anything?
| 290 |
SanFranciscoZionist Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:14:54pm |
| 291 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:16:21pm |
re: #289 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
What's Crazy Sully got to do with anything?
I have nothing further to add.
| 292 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:17:10pm |
re: #264 ggt
In her mind, she is on a Mission from God and is Protected . . .
Some days, I wonder about that mind of hers. Especially when she says idiotic crap like in the OP. "It's part of Satan" rotfl
| 293 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:17:48pm |
re: #292 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Some days, I wonder about that mind of hers. Especially when she says idiotic crap like in the OP. "It's part of Satan" rotfl
So... did you like 70's keyboard stuff?
| 294 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:19:03pm |
re: #291 Gus 802
I have nothing further to add.
I didn't know what "Yes. That worked so well for Andrew Sullivan" meant. Clarify it or don't, it's up to you.
| 295 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:20:33pm |
| 296 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:20:41pm |
| 297 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:21:13pm |
re: #295 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Like it...more like obsessed with it.
Emerson Lake and Palmer?
| 298 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:22:36pm |
| 299 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:23:36pm |
And with that quote, may everyone have a blessed night.
| 300 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:24:31pm |
re: #296 wlewisiii
Mark 9:42
Lol don't dust off that millstone just yet. Nothing in my posts will cause anyone to stumble into "sin".
Lol please.
| 301 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:25:47pm |
re: #293 Mr Pancakes
So... did you like 70's keyboard stuff?
Btw why do you ask? Did you see that thread from the other night, with Slumbering Behemoth?
| 302 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:27:20pm |
re: #298 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Keith's my man
Ok (I don't want to call you Crap or Sarah or Pailin) I'll call you Crush.
Crush..... check out this band from Germany....... sounds just like ELP but at times better. You have to listen for it.... about 1:30 in..... no mistaking it.
| 303 |
Mr Pancakes Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:27:49pm |
re: #301 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Btw why do you ask? Did you see that thread from the other night, with Slumbering Behemoth?
Yes
| 304 |
William Barnett-Lewis Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:30:35pm |
re: #300 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Think of what I actually said.
Think of what you actually said.
Why do I have any more reason to believe you than you have to believe me?
And there in lies the parable, now doesn't it?
I always pray that Christians are right about grace. It's more than any human deserves.
Good night, for real this time.
| 305 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:30:50pm |
re: #141 WindUpBird
if she becomes the nominee, it's gonna be a ZOO, all the shit coming out about that family, it'll be hella weird, weirder than palin I bet
Well at least the Palins were kind of fun (during the campaign. Now they're just plastic and tabloid.)
The Bachmann's image, though...just ugh.
| 306 |
Gus Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:32:48pm |
re: #294 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
I didn't know what "Yes. That worked so well for Andrew Sullivan" meant. Clarify it or don't, it's up to you.
I just don't agree at all with this angle of attack. Families are off limits and I don't care if Bachmann brought up her 23 foster children. Sullivan himself became obsessed with Trigger and the other Palin children. For me, this is all very similar. And to be quite honest. It makes us look bad. And never fall into the trap where you become just like your enemy.
| 307 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:37:27pm |
re: #304 wlewisiii
Why do I have any more reason to believe you than you have to believe me?
But I'm not trying to get you to believe me, about anything.
OTOH I find the millstone/drowning reference to be over the top. Anyone who runs out and "sins" because of something they read in a comment of mine at LGF needs to get a stronger sense of self.
| 308 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Tue, Jul 12, 2011 11:51:07pm |
re: #306 Gus 802
I just don't agree at all with this angle of attack. Families are off limits and I don't care if Bachmann brought up her 23 foster children. Sullivan himself became obsessed with Trigger and the other Palin children. For me, this is all very similar. And to be quite honest. It makes us look bad. And never fall into the trap where you become just like your enemy.
Michele Bachmann is not being attacked. Ideally, yes, families are off limits. Michele should have thought of that before parading around her supposedly superior parenting record, or misappropriating the word "gay" as a stick to beat her "family member" "in that lifestyle". (For anyone who doesn't know, she's talking about her half-sister.)
We are allowed to doubt her, and she is not entitled to any assumptions about her altruism, love, selflessness, or the other string of cliches that go along with the ideal of foster parenting.
So what if I don't buy it; I'm just one person with at best an extremely obscure blog, not a columnist at The Atlantic. We feel differently about the matter. That's allowed, too.
| 309 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Jul 13, 2011 12:00:00am |
re: #302 Mr Pancakes
Ok (I don't want to call you Crap or Sarah or Pailin) I'll call you Crush.
Crush... check out this band from Germany... sounds just like ELP but at times better. You have to listen for it... about 1:30 in... no mistaking it.
[Video]
That is the nice :)
I love this video
| 310 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Jul 13, 2011 12:47:34am |
Janice Hahn won the Special Election in California's 36th District. The margin was 9.2%.
The margin would probably be wider in a general election.
| 311 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 1:16:01am |
re: #144 ggt
Please, use the right label. There are Whackos who are not conservatives and there are conservatives who are not Whacko.
There's a difference?
| 312 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Jul 13, 2011 1:21:22am |
re: #253 SanFranciscoZionist
And, of course, the same damn thing goes on in biological families all the time.
The way people treat children...bleah.
Yeah, it's often f'd all around. Only thing I'd add is, with the foster system, adoption, guardianship, etc. there is (supposedly) a level of accountability not required of biological parents. I.e., parents are screened and evaluated for at least basic suitability. So the kids were placed with their abusers/killers, supposedly with some state or private agency actor looking out for them. Fail.
| 313 |
Wozza Matter? Wed, Jul 13, 2011 2:07:09am |
Bachmann - Crazier than a bag of handled snakes.....
| 315 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 3:02:00am |
This article won't say if the mother had a prescription for Oxycodone, but if she didn't I wonder if they'll up the charges or add new ones.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
| 316 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 3:07:43am |
This will get you 15 years.
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
| 318 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 3:46:26am |
| 319 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Jul 13, 2011 3:48:13am |
re: #318 Cannadian Club Akbar
"My widdle snookums is hungwy!"
| 321 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 3:54:14am |
My wife's furniture buying is looking less crazy. Not only are these last two pieces she got really pretty, they're worth about four times what we paid.
I kinda feel like a cheat now.
| 322 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Jul 13, 2011 3:54:38am |
re: #316 Cannadian Club Akbar
I have no idea how to respond to that story.
The cop was amazingly careless, the woman was amazingly stupid.
| 323 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 3:55:29am |
re: #321 Obdicut
My wife's furniture buying is looking less crazy. Not only are these last two pieces she got really pretty, they're worth about four times what we paid.
I kinda feel like a cheat now.
Consignment shop? I could actually furnish a house using Craig's List. Good stuff there.
| 324 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 3:58:59am |
re: #322 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I have no idea how to respond to that story.
The cop was amazingly careless, the woman was amazingly stupid.
If you don't take anything else from that story, remember this: Your conversations, while in jail, are recorded when you get a visitor.:)
| 325 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:11:28am |
re: #323 Cannadian Club Akbar
Consignment shop? I could actually furnish a house using Craig's List. Good stuff there.
Craigslist, yeah. She haunts it, and pounces.
| 326 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:19:30am |
re: #325 Obdicut
Craigslist, yeah. She haunts it, and pounces.
In the 1970s, my Father in Law would buy various period pieces of wood furniture and restore them when everyone else was buying the latest plastic and "engineered" wood furniture.
My MIL's house now has some really beautiful pieces of furniture, several of which she has passed on to me.
| 327 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:20:12am |
re: #324 Cannadian Club Akbar
Which I learned recently from the DSK case.
| 328 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:22:55am |
re: #319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
"My widdle snookums is ALWAYS hungwy!"
| 329 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:23:11am |
re: #325 Obdicut
Craigslist, yeah. She haunts it, and pounces.
My son bought a very nice, if somewhat scuffed-up dining room set on Craigslist for $125. He said his kids would probably destroy it anyway, why not buy it pre-scratched?
| 331 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:25:02am |
| 332 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:25:40am |
| 333 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:26:11am |
re: #331 Alouette
Horrible, horrible ending to missing child case in Brooklyn.
That sucks. Saw the original report earlier.
| 334 |
Shropshire_Slasher Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:26:15am |
This story reminds me of a song:
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
| 335 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:29:52am |
re: #331 Alouette
Can you imagine the guilt that this kid's parents will suffer? They'll blame themselves.
The kid begged and begged to be allowed to walk alone, they said they'd meet him halfway.
Doesn't matter. They'll blame themselves for the rest of their lives.
| 336 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:30:01am |
re: #334 Shropshire_Slasher
This story reminds me of a song:
[Link: www.cbsnews.com...]
Or a commercial:
"You just murdered a Priest!! What are you gonna do now?"
"I'm going to Disney!!!"
| 337 |
Shropshire_Slasher Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:31:47am |
re: #336 Cannadian Club Akbar
As they say in NY, nothing good comes outta the south. (down-ding away you shifty southerners!)
| 338 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:34:41am |
Folks, please help me out if you will.
What's the best tool for batch addition of semi-transparent text to images? Preferrably with a rotation option (I want diagonal text lines).
(I have Adobe Photoshop Lightroom but am unhappy with it).
| 339 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:36:12am |
re: #338 Sergey Romanov
Folks, please help me out if you will.
What's the best tool for batch addition of semi-transparent text to images? Preferrably with a rotation option (I want diagonal text lines).
(I have Adobe Photoshop Lightroom but am unhappy with it).
My Kodak Brownie camera doesn't let me do any of that
[Link: browniecameracollector.com...]
| 340 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:36:19am |
re: #331 Alouette
Horrible, horrible ending to missing child case in Brooklyn.
My radio just said some of the remains were found in someone's fridge.
| 341 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:37:31am |
re: #340 Cannadian Club Akbar
My radio just said some of the remains were found in someone's fridge.
yeah,, I was going to point out the dismembered remains from the article and mention that I would volunteer for the firing squad once the perp is found
| 342 |
Shropshire_Slasher Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:37:58am |
re: #340 Cannadian Club Akbar
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
| 343 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:38:42am |
re: #331 Alouette
Horrible, horrible ending to missing child case in Brooklyn.
Ugh. And the suspect is Jewish too. That's not going to be good for the community.
Monsters abound. The parents shouldn't blame themselves. You can't protect your kids from evil like that.
| 344 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:38:44am |
re: #339 sattv4u2
You want brownie points for this observation?
/
| 345 |
Shropshire_Slasher Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:39:11am |
No death penalty in NY, thanks to Shelly Silver, the asshat.
| 346 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:39:22am |
re: #340 Cannadian Club Akbar
My radio just said some of the remains were found in someone's fridge.
Public hanging.
Or better, just put him in with general population. Shiv in the guts.
| 347 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:40:51am |
re: #343 Obdicut
Ugh. And the suspect is Jewish too. That's not going to be good for the community.
Monsters abound. The parents shouldn't blame themselves. You can't protect your kids from evil like that.
Stories like this used to scare the crap out of me. Now they just make me want to go out and kill the fucker.
| 348 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:46:55am |
re: #347 Alouette
I dislike that the media and Hollywood has built up an idea of serial killers as being really brilliant and charismatic too.
They tend to be of average intelligence, be socially awkward. I don't see in any point in romanticizing the twisted fuckers.
Though I do like Dexter, but that inverts the meme.
A cop friend of mine who's on homicide says, in his opinion, there's a lot more serial killers-- it's that they get caught on their first victim, because they're dumbasses.
| 349 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:47:08am |
re: #345 Shropshire_Slasher
No death penalty in NY, thanks to Shelly Silver, the asshat.
Yeah, because the state killing people people innocent of the crimes they've been accused of (which, unfortunately, always goes hand in hand with DP) is so cool.
| 350 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:48:47am |
re: #345 Shropshire_Slasher
No death penalty in NY, thanks to Shelly Silver, the asshat.
The death penalty is unworkable in reality. It's be fine if the courts and the state were omniscient beings, but they're not.
The number of people exonerated by The Innocence Project demonstrates that pretty well.
| 351 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:49:01am |
BTW, I'd like to see the murderer dead too. But then, I'd like to see some other people dead too. I wouldn't recommend giving me that power. And I wouldn't want to give that power to anyone else.
| 352 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:50:33am |
re: #351 Sergey Romanov
I don't mind the power being given to a proper judge and a jury. Just like it was set up. I don't mind it at all.
I hope they boil that dust-speck.
| 353 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:51:22am |
re: #352 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I don't mind the power being given to a proper judge and a jury. Just like it was set up. I don't mind it at all.
I hope they boil that dust-speck.
What do you think about the large numbers of people-- including those on death row-- whose convictions were overturned-- often because of demonstrated prosecutorial misconduct?
| 354 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:51:29am |
re: #352 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Neither the Judge nor the Jury are omniscient, sorry.
| 355 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:51:44am |
re: #338 Sergey Romanov
Folks, please help me out if you will.
What's the best tool for batch addition of semi-transparent text to images? Preferrably with a rotation option (I want diagonal text lines).
(I have Adobe Photoshop Lightroom but am unhappy with it).
Mac or PC?
| 356 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:52:04am |
re: #355 CuriousLurker
PC.
| 357 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:53:24am |
re: #348 Obdicut
I dislike that the media and Hollywood has built up an idea of serial killers as being really brilliant and charismatic too.
They tend to be of average intelligence, be socially awkward. I don't see in any point in romanticizing the twisted fuckers.
Though I do like Dexter, but that inverts the meme.
A cop friend of mine who's on homicide says, in his opinion, there's a lot more serial killers-- it's that they get caught on their first victim, because they're dumbasses.
The successful serial killers (hate saying it that way) get the press because it fills the 24/7 news cycle. Then the media bring us the parade of shrinks and analyst.
| 358 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:58:16am |
| 361 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 4:59:33am |
re: #357 Cannadian Club Akbar
The successful serial killers (hate saying it that way) get the press because it fills the 24/7 news cycle. Then the media bring us the parade of shrinks and analyst.
Though I really enjoyed much of the Lawn Order cycle, having all of them on so many stations so many hours per week is much the same thing. We have been taught, probably by accident, to fear each other.
'Morning, all.
| 362 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:00:16am |
re: #358 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
re: #354 Sergey Romanov
Sorry, hippies. Pro death penalty here.
I said "proper judge and jury", should have thrown in cops.
You're not answering the question, though.
What do you think about the large numbers of people-- including those on death row-- whose convictions were overturned-- often because of demonstrated prosecutorial misconduct?
Do you just think that somehow we'll be able to fix it so that all our judges, juries, and prosecutors are magically perfectly ethical beings? Because it can be demonstrated that there were people on death row who shouldn't have been there.
Or do you think innocent people being executed by the state is a reasonable price to pay for being able to execute murderers?
| 363 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:01:58am |
re: #356 Sergey Romanov
PC.
I don't use Lightroom, just Photoshop, but youmight want to try this if you're doing a bunch of watermarks.
It's pretty easy to batch process stuff in Photshop Extended once you record the actions, but I'm guessing Lightroom must be different or you wouldn't be asking.
You might also want to look at Irfanview as it may very well have the capability also. If neither of those work for you, email me.
| 364 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:02:15am |
re: #361 Decatur Deb
Though I really enjoyed much of the Lawn Order cycle, having all of them on so many stations so many hours per week is much the same thing. We have been taught, probably by accident, to fear each other.
'Morning, all.
We have nothing to fear but fear itself!!! And spiders!!!
///
| 365 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:05:39am |
re: #358 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
> Pro death penalty here.
Well, that's just an expression of your belief, which is fine. Of course, you have no rational arguments in favor of the state killing people innocent of the crimes they have been accused of (which is a necessary consequence of allowing DP, no matter how many times you emphasize the word "proper").
| 366 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:08:00am |
My radio just said the guy who killed the Priest in Mississippi and took off to Florida was caught using Onstar. Didn't see that coming, did he?
| 367 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:08:15am |
re: #363 CuriousLurker
Thanks! I think I tried IV and there was something that didn't work properly, but I'll try again. I usually use XnView for image works but it can only insert normal text.
| 368 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:08:23am |
re: #364 Cannadian Club Akbar
We have nothing to fear but fear itself!!! And spiders!!!
///
Yup. Because my family did 3 long overseas tours, away from US TV, we probably saw the differences in programing more sharply. After our last return, the tube was saturated with news and drama shows that make us out to be a nation of drug fueled psychopaths. 'Taint really so.
| 369 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:10:14am |
re: #368 Decatur Deb
Yup. Because my family did 3 long overseas tours, away from US TV, we probably saw the differences in programing more sharply. After our last return, the tube was saturated with news and drama shows that make us out to be a nation of drug fueled psychopaths. 'Taint really so.
I don't watch cable news, or much regular TV. I will admit I love Criminal Minds, though. Reruns. Other than that it's NatGeo.
| 370 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:10:40am |
re: #366 Cannadian Club Akbar
My radio just said the guy who killed the Priest in Mississippi and took off to Florida was caught using Onstar. Didn't see that coming, did he?
I've seen one case where Onstar narc'ed a hit-and-run driver. The impact reported the location, and a trail of fluids did the rest.
| 371 |
CuriousLurker Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:14:12am |
re: #367 Sergey Romanov
Thanks! I think I tried IV and there was something that didn't work properly, but I'll try again. I usually use XnView for image works but it can only insert normal text.
Heh, yeah I use XnView for quick stuff, so that's the first thing I checked. Let me know if you get stuck. I know you're a smart guy, but graphics apps can be tricky if you don't know your way around them really well, so maybe I can help you work out something viable.
| 372 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:14:21am |
re: #366 Cannadian Club Akbar
My radio just said the guy who killed the Priest in Mississippi and took off to Florida was caught using Onstar. Didn't see that coming, did he?
Yeah, he should have been using SYNC because they don't share your personal data with law enforcement.
| 373 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:14:26am |
re: #366 Cannadian Club Akbar
My radio just said the guy who killed the Priest in Mississippi and took off to Florida was caught using Onstar. Didn't see that coming, did he?
Missed the killing in Mississippi--today's news? (Still on 1st cup of coffee.)
| 374 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:14:30am |
When one of the most vicious Soviet serial killers Chikatilo was on his sexual murder spree, the investigators were under a pressure to find the murderer. So they found some guy who had been convicted previously and lived near the place where the girl's body had been found. It wasn't all that difficult to make him confess. The girl's parents were writing the letters to the Supreme Court, asking for a quick execution. The truth came out in 1990s, after Chikatilo - then in custody - confessed to the murder and described the details.
"Oh, but those were the Soviets", you might be thinking. "Unlike them, our cops are never ever under pressure to solve crimes, they always act according to the law, they never ever try to coerce false confessions or put any kind of pressure on the suspect."
Whatever.
| 375 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:15:47am |
re: #373 Decatur Deb
Missed the killing in Mississippi--today's news? (Still on 1st cup of coffee.)
See #334
| 376 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:16:54am |
re: #374 Sergey Romanov
When one of the most vicious Soviet serial killers Chikatilo was on his sexual murder spree, the investigators were under a pressure to find the murderer. So they found some guy who had been convicted previously and lived near the place where the girl's body had been found. It wasn't all that difficult to make him confess. The girl's parents were writing the letters to the Supreme Court, asking for a quick execution. The truth came out in 1990s, after Chikatilo - then in custody - confessed to the murder and described the details.
"Oh, but those were the Soviets", you might be thinking. "Unlike them, our cops are never ever under pressure to solve crimes, they always act according to the law, they never ever try to coerce false confessions or put any kind of pressure on the suspect."
Whatever.
Cops are cops, farmers are farmers, and generals are generals.
| 377 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:19:09am |
Russia has a moratorium on the death penalty. One of the few democratic victories still in force. I'm grateful for small things.
| 378 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:19:32am |
re: #374 Sergey Romanov
There was a story in Canada years ago about rape/torture/killing. Husband and wife team. The wife copped a plea deal and got 6 months, acting as if she was forced into it/ didn't know, whatever. After she was sentenced, they found tapes. They showed she was involved the whole time. Couldn't retry her.
| 379 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:20:16am |
re: #374 Sergey Romanov
And it can be an honest mistake on the cops part. They can really think that this particular guy did it, and build up a very solid circumstantial case that gets the guy convicted, bolstered by a lying witness. My same cop friend says that the biggest disillusionment for rookies isn't how brutal the murders are, but how many people will lie to throw someone to the cops and try to hang the murder on them.
It's not just the cops. Witnesses lie.
| 380 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:21:45am |
re: #378 Cannadian Club Akbar
There was a story in Canada years ago about rape/torture/killing. Husband and wife team. The wife copped a plea deal and got 6 months, acting as if she was forced into it/ didn't know, whatever. After she was sentenced, they found tapes. They showed she was involved the whole time. Couldn't retry her.
Oh and IIRC, the couple had a copy of the book American Psyco" on their nightstand. Then some film maker tried to shoot the movie version in Canada.
| 381 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:22:23am |
As for hippies, I'm very sure that Mumia did it. Throw away the key. (But don't execute).
| 382 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:23:38am |
re: #375 Cannadian Club Akbar
See #334
Thanks. Disturbing thing is that a 70 yr old priest had a .380. Freakn' Dominicans. (For the record, the priest technically did not 'own' any of the things mentioned--he took a vow of poverty, and would normally give it all up.)
| 383 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:26:50am |
Incidentally, the number of innocent people who wind up in the prison system shows the moral obligation we have to reform that system and make it a less violent and terrible place.
I mean, we should anyway, since prisoners still have rights, but the innocent people in the system make it even more clear.
And that's a subject almost no one talks about. There's too many forces aligned against reform, from law enforcement to the construction industry to the prison guard unions to the prosecutors.
| 384 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:28:24am |
re: #382 Decatur Deb
Thanks. Disturbing thing is that a 70 yr old priest had a .380. Freakn' Dominicans. (For the record, the priest technically did not 'own' any of the things mentioned--he took a vow of poverty, and would normally give it all up.)
I should take a vow of poverty. I could use a Chevy HHR.
| 385 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:33:01am |
re: #383 Obdicut
It would be an odd bunch of guards that campaign for more prisoners. Overcrowding and budget cuts have put the ratios way above comfortable. The youth jail where my daughter teaches has lost CO and school staff to the point where the danger has gone up. (She is the English Dep't, Bio Dep't, and admin.)
| 386 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:34:19am |
re: #383 Obdicut
Incidentally, the number of innocent people who wind up in the prison system shows the moral obligation we have to reform that system and make it a less violent and terrible place.
I mean, we should anyway, since prisoners still have rights, but the innocent people in the system make it even more clear.
And that's a subject almost no one talks about. There's too many forces aligned against reform, from law enforcement to the construction industry to the prison guard unions to the prosecutors.
the worst thing they could possibly do would be to privatize the corrections institutions.
| 387 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:36:57am |
re: #384 Cannadian Club Akbar
I should take a vow of poverty. I could use a Chevy HHR.
Yes--there has been a long history on that. There are periodic reforms over the centuries. Theoretically, you get use of the car, but you never get laid.
| 388 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:41:04am |
re: #385 Decatur Deb
It would be an odd bunch of guards that campaign for more prisoners.
The unions are mainly controlled by higher-ups among the prison guards, not the rank-and-file. For them, there is a benefit, as they get more guys under them, bigger budgets, more responsibility. They want the state to hire more correctional officers.
Overcrowding and budget cuts have put the ratios way above comfortable. The youth jail where my daughter teaches has lost CO and school staff to the point where the danger has gone up. (She is the English Dep't, Bio Dep't, and admin.)
There is a lot of push-back among the lower-level guys, but it hasn't changed anything in California yet. The correctional officer union's line is that we need more prisons to hold the population, not a lower population. They also oppose decriminalization of marijuana, partially because they prefer having non-violent criminals in jail, as they're safer.
Don't get me wrong, the union isn't all bad, and a lot of their ideas about prison reform are actually okay. But when you combine their resistance to some reforms with the other groups resistance, you get a monolithic resistance to any form of reform.
| 389 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:45:54am |
In specific, the CCPOA (California prison guard union) sponsored the couldn't-be-a-worse-idea Three Strikes Law.
| 390 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:48:30am |
re: #388 Obdicut
I'd have to see data on what percentage of guards are even unionized--ours are not. With very few exceptions, unions are functioning democracies, responsive to their guys.
| 391 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:51:21am |
re: #390 Decatur Deb
I'd have to see data on what percentage of guards are even unionized--ours are not. With very few exceptions, unions are functioning democracies, responsive to their guys.
GOOD unions are functioning democracies. Unfortunately, the temptation of abuse of power in the union structure is all too alluring.
| 392 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:52:51am |
re: #389 Obdicut
In specific, the CCPOA (California prison guard union) sponsored the couldn't-be-a-worse-idea Three Strikes Law.
The bad thing about 3 strikes is if you already have 2, you might look at the situation you're in as "there is nothing to lose" and fight back. Now, we do have a 10-20-Life law here. Has to do with gun violence.
10 years if you use a gun during a crime.
20 if you shoot the gun during a crime
Life if you shoot someone during a crime.
| 393 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:54:41am |
re: #390 Decatur Deb
You know me, I'm not some anti-union agitator. A prison guard union, however, runs into the classic market problem of unions; the actual goal of a union is to defend against exploitation of its members and to get them a good deal on their labor. The way that this can be done is through the size and power of the union. So, the union has a direct incentive to grow members.
A union of steelworkers wants more steelworker jobs to be available, and promotes the construction industry and other steelworking jobs. This is good for everyone involved.
A union of prison guards, however, is problematic when it comes to growing its members; as can be seen in California, this may wind up with them supporting very repressive laws that increase the prison population.
Broken markets don't just apply to the capital side of the equation, but the labor one as well.
| 394 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:55:54am |
re: #374 Sergey Romanov
Comparisons of Law Enforcement in the US to the USSR as being remotely the same is.... incorrect.
| 395 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:56:16am |
re: #391 thedopefishlives
GOOD unions are functioning democracies. Unfortunately, the temptation of abuse of power in the union structure is all too alluring.
It's really not a nature of unions unto themselves; the prison guard union is a special case, as I explained above. Normally, a union wanting more jobs, more members, is good for the industry and therefore society.
| 396 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:56:56am |
re: #394 Ericus58
You can continue to believe that.
| 397 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:57:10am |
re: #394 Ericus58
Comparisons of Law Enforcement in the US to the USSR as being remotely the same is... incorrect.
His point is perfectly correct. We have corrupt, overzealous, and incompetent police, judges, and prosecutors in the US as well.
We also incarcerate a higher percentage of our population than the USSR did.
| 398 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:57:33am |
re: #395 Obdicut
It's really not a nature of unions unto themselves; the prison guard union is a special case, as I explained above. Normally, a union wanting more jobs, more members, is good for the industry and therefore society.
Granted, but my point still stands. Unions can and do get carried away with themselves. Again, in an industrial sector this is probably not a bad thing, unless something totally corrupt is going on.
| 399 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 5:59:44am |
Right.... the USSR and it's Gulags - One Party control - and by extension the appointments and use of it's Police forces is just like the US.
Whatever.
| 400 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:00:10am |
re: #398 thedopefishlives
Granted, but my point still stands. Unions can and do get carried away with themselves. Again, in an industrial sector this is probably not a bad thing, unless something totally corrupt is going on.
Sure. Sometimes a union could use a union. But the prison guard union is a special case, just like health insurance is a special case as a capital enterprise. There's no natural good market for health insurance, it's inherently broken, and there's no way to force good ethical behavior on a health insurance company; every bit of incentive works against it.
The prison guard union problem doesn't have a good solution. I certainly don't want to take away their right to organize or to lobby, especially on the issue of guard safety. I have no idea what to do about it.
| 401 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:00:25am |
re: #399 Ericus58
No. Humans are the same.
| 402 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:01:03am |
re: #399 Ericus58
Right... the USSR and it's Gulags - One Party control - and by extension the appointments and use of it's Police forces is just like the US.
Whatever.
If Sergey had said it was just like the US, then you might have a point.
He didn't.
Our legal system is far superior in every way to that of the USSR.
That does not mean our legal system is incapable of executing innocent people.
That is the point.
| 403 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:01:41am |
re: #399 Ericus58
(Not that any mention of the GULAG in the context of 1970s-1990s is meaningful. But whatever, indeed.)
| 404 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:02:00am |
Strippers strip searched at a strip club sue: Lawyer gets most of the winnings!!
[Link: articles.orlandosentinel.com...]
| 405 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:03:35am |
re: #397 Obdicut
His point is perfectly correct. We have corrupt, overzealous, and incompetent police, judges, and prosecutors in the US as well.
We also incarcerate a higher percentage of our population than the USSR did.
So, just how many individuals never made it to incarceration because the just "off'd 'em:?
Seriously, making a point as valid that the USSR's legal and law enforcement system is equal to ours is just an incredible leap that is not logical.
I'm not naive to think there isn't inequity in our system or there isn't abuse at times... but c'mon, let's be real.
| 406 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:04:39am |
re: #405 Ericus58
Seriously, making a point as valid that the USSR's legal and law enforcement system is equal to ours is just an incredible leap that is not logical.
Nobody has said this. Why do you keep repeating it? It's not true.
| 407 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:05:03am |
I'm going to be busy with work - but I'll be around.
Feel free to slam away.
| 408 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:05:32am |
| 409 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:06:36am |
re: #407 Ericus58
There's nothing to slam. You're claiming something has been said-- that the USSR and US's legal systems were equivalent-- which wasn't said.
What was said was that there is, in the US, the same problem that it's human beings in charge, and they can be corrupt, venal, mistaken, abusive, et al.-- as can be clearly seen with the judge who was getting kickbacks by sending kids to prison.
So, the death penalty, even in the US, has the problem that it will wind up being used on innocent people.
| 410 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:07:21am |
re: #400 Obdicut
You know, you make a good point about health insurance not having a market that I hadn't really thought of before. Not to wander too far off-topic, but really: For every other type of insurance, there's a certain market. Auto owners, homeowners, people who own exotic or luxurious items, and so on. Health, however, is something that everyone has and everyone has a vested interest in preserving. This breaks the fundamental supply-and-demand underpinnings of a capitalist solution.
| 411 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:08:02am |
re: #409 Obdicut
It's that "patriotic" thing, I think. How dares one to even mention the USSR and the US in the same sentence (except to show how different they were!). Rah rah!
| 412 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:10:53am |
re: #410 thedopefishlives
You know, you make a good point about health insurance not having a market that I hadn't really thought of before. Not to wander too far off-topic, but really: For every other type of insurance, there's a certain market. Auto owners, homeowners, people who own exotic or luxurious items, and so on. Health, however, is something that everyone has and everyone has a vested interest in preserving. This breaks the fundamental supply-and-demand underpinnings of a capitalist solution.
The other problem is that every other insured entity has a monetized value. Your health, not so much...
| 413 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:11:02am |
re: #408 Sergey Romanov
Of course, nobody made such a point in the first place, but do continue.
6_6
Read your #374 - you trotted out the reference to "Soviets".
| 414 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:11:54am |
re: #413 Ericus58
Read your #374 - you trotted out the reference to "Soviets".
But nowhere did he state that the Soviet police system and the American one are equal, or identical. You are constructing a fine strawman over there.
| 415 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:12:17am |
re: #413 Ericus58
You implied that I have made "a point as valid that the USSR's legal and law enforcement system is equal to ours". I haven't. That's a lie.
| 416 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:12:28am |
re: #410 thedopefishlives
Yep. And the health insurance companies, unlike a car insurance or house insurance company, have an active disincentive to paying out claims.
People get into accidents for all kinds of reasons. You can raise their rates if it was clearly their fault, as a penalty, and that's fine, both morally and fiscally. That person is still going to be a net gain for the company over time, most likely, and the number who aren't get covered easily by the rest.
Houses occasionally burn down, get damaged by trees, etc. Generally highly statistically chancey. That person is likely to keep paying his insurance premiums, and there's no good indicator on whether the company will have to make another payout. There's no real signs of risk. The person is actually more likely to keep paying the house insurance if the company pays out quickly, because otherwise they might be at risk of losing the house.
In health insurance, companies can know, definitively, that a person is going to cost more in the long run than they will ever pay. Moreover, someone getting sick in some significant ways-- like cancer-- means that it's very likely they'll be getting sick like that again. They insurance company has every incentive to deny that persons claims and to get them off their rolls if they can.
Health insurance companies suck at providing health insurance to sick people. They're great at doing it for healthy people.
| 417 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:12:44am |
re: #411 Sergey Romanov
It's that "patriotic" thing, I think. How dares one to even mention the USSR and the US in the same sentence (except to show how different they were!). Rah rah!
Now that is being an asshole.
| 418 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:14:45am |
re: #417 Ericus58
Now that is being an asshole.
Dude, you're on the wrong side of this. You've made a false claim about what Sergey said. He didn't say our legal systems were equivalent. You're saying he did. You're saying something that's not true.
And you're missing the main point, which is that even in the US, we have overeager prosecutors, corrupt judges, lying witnesses, etc. etc. There's no way to perfectly safeguard against all of that.
| 419 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:17:36am |
I absolutely do think that systemic deficiencies that led to Kravchenko's execution are not peculiar to the Soviet system. I do think they're general enough to exist even in such a (relatively) good system as the US legal system. This is in no way an equation between the Soviet system and the American system. Duh.
| 420 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:18:44am |
re: #417 Ericus58
If you have any other explanation for your insistence that I claimed something that I didn't really claim, feel free to provide it.
| 421 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:20:21am |
re: #416 Obdicut
In health insurance, companies can know, definitively, that a person is going to cost more in the long run than they will ever pay. Moreover, someone getting sick in some significant ways-- like cancer-- means that it's very likely they'll be getting sick like that again. They insurance company has every incentive to deny that persons claims and to get them off their rolls if they can.
Health insurance companies suck at providing health insurance to sick people. They're great at doing it for healthy people.
I apologize if this comes out sounding like a Tea Party line, but what's not to say that beancounters could as well cause these sort of problems should the United States adopt a single-payer system?
| 422 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:21:19am |
re: #421 laZardo
I apologize if this comes out sounding like a Tea Party line, but what's not to say that beancounters could as well cause these sort of problems should the United States adopt a single-payer system?
I have no idea what you're talking about.
What sort of problems? You think that the government is going to tell people they don't get healthcare because they'll cost too much during their lives?
Can you find any single-payer system that's ever done that?
| 423 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:21:42am |
Phone hacking: pressure in United States to investigate News Corporation
Exclusive: A powerful Senate committee chairman has said that phone hacking raises "serious questions" about whether Rupert Murdoch's News Corp "has broken United States law".
| 424 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:21:51am |
re: #421 laZardo
Short answer: They have no incentive to do so. The health insurance company does.
| 425 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:21:53am |
re: #419 Sergey Romanov
I absolutely do think that systemic deficiencies that led to Kravchenko's execution are not peculiar to the Soviet system. I do think they're general enough to exist even in such a (relatively) good system as the US legal system. This is in no way an equation between the Soviet system and the American system. Duh.
Sure, because it's inherent in any system of corrections. Unless you have a 100% foolproof way of screening the people that comprise that system, in which case we'd be better off using it on the suspects so that we would never have a false conviction, no matter who was running the system.
| 426 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:22:33am |
re: #424 Obdicut
Short answer: They have no incentive to do so. The health insurance company does.
What about with aging populations?
[because I really need to get these answers locked-in, as it were.]
| 427 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:23:44am |
re: #419 Sergey Romanov
Reminds me of a lesson from history:
Kublai Khan (or possibly one of his ministers) decreed that no one could be executed without a full confession. The purpose of this was for innocent people not to be railroaded and executed.
The result of that law after he stopped paying attention to the legal system was that confessions were coerced out of prisoners so that they could be executed.
History is littered with ways that people have tried to make the death penalty work and be fair. None have succeeded.
| 428 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:23:44am |
re: #423 Killgore Trout
Phone hacking: pressure in United States to investigate News Corporation
Rockefeller Vs. Murdoch. The next Buildaburger meeting might be tense!!!
/
| 429 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:24:40am |
re: #426 laZardo
What about with aging populations?
[because I really need to get these answers locked-in, as it were.]
Again: I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm pointing out the incentive that the insurance company has. You're pointing out that 'bean-counters' could arbitrarily do it. Sure. They could also kick you in the taint. But what incentive do they have?
| 430 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:25:15am |
re: #428 Cannadian Club Akbar
Rockefeller Vs. Murdoch. The next Buildaburger meeting might be tense!!!
/
Buildaburger, sounds like a cool idea for a restaurant.
| 431 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:25:19am |
re: #427 Obdicut
Interesting how history repeated itself on the confession part.
| 432 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:26:21am |
re: #430 thedopefishlives
Buildaburger, sounds like a cool idea for a restaurant.
It is a restaurant.:)
| 433 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:27:15am |
re: #431 Sergey Romanov
Interesting how history repeated itself on the confession part.
Jewish law was probably the best legal approach to the death penalty, which meant that, in the cosmopolitan areas, death penalties were pretty much impossible to serve. There are very, very few recorded instances. But then you've got to ask, what's the point? The person basically has to ask for the death penalty under strict Talmudic law. Why even have it?
| 434 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:27:28am |
re: #432 Cannadian Club Akbar
It is a restaurant.:)
GASP! I want one! ...And now I'm hungry, blast it.
| 435 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:27:40am |
re: #431 Sergey Romanov
Interesting how history repeated itself on the confession part.
History repeats itself. Historians repeat each other.
| 436 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:28:28am |
re: #435 thedopefishlives
And you repeat, Philip Guedalla, who was largely echoing Pliny.
| 437 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:28:45am |
re: #432 Cannadian Club Akbar
It is a restaurant.:)
Holy shit!! It's more than a restaurant!!! It's controlled by the juice!!
[Link: wiki.freetalklive.com...]
| 438 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:28:52am |
re: #433 Obdicut
As far as I see it (from a historical, non-religious POV) the Oral Law _is_ the way to mellow the harshness of the Torah.
| 439 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:28:58am |
re: #429 Obdicut
Again: I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm pointing out the incentive that the insurance company has. You're pointing out that 'bean-counters' could arbitrarily do it. Sure. They could also kick you in the taint. But what incentive do they have?
Debt reduction, cost-cutting, things like that. The raw fact of the matter is that health care has to be paid for by something, and today patients are always regarded as "consumers." Where private insurers can screw "consumers" over to keep profits up, the single-payer system can tinker with technicalities to keep costs down.
I know this must be really frustrating, but I'm not exactly a fan of bureaucracy and American bureaucracy is built thick enough that it can very well do so.
| 440 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:30:08am |
re: #433 Obdicut
Jewish law was probably the best legal approach to the death penalty, which meant that, in the cosmopolitan areas, death penalties were pretty much impossible to serve. There are very, very few recorded instances. But then you've got to ask, what's the point? The person basically has to ask for the death penalty under strict Talmudic law. Why even have it?
A Sanhedrin that executed one person during a period of 70 years was called a "Bloody court"
| 441 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:31:48am |
re: #433 Obdicut
Jewish law was probably the best legal approach to the death penalty, which meant that, in the cosmopolitan areas, death penalties were pretty much impossible to serve. There are very, very few recorded instances. But then you've got to ask, what's the point? The person basically has to ask for the death penalty under strict Talmudic law. Why even have it?
As long as you don't piss off the dancing girl and her mother.
| 443 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:32:57am |
re: #439 laZardo
Debt reduction, cost-cutting, things like that.
Then that's a result of not funding the health care system enough. It's not a result of the bureaucrat's decision-making.
The raw fact of the matter is that health care has to be paid for by something, and today patients are always regarded as "consumers." Where private insurers can screw "consumers" over to keep profits up, the single-payer system can tinker with technicalities to keep costs down.
But they don't have an incentive to keep costs down unless they're ordered to keep costs down, and then that's a decision made by the government, with everyone voting on it. There are some things that single-payer insurance rejects because the cost vs. the outcome isn't very good. That's a rational way to apportion limited means.
You basically seem to be saying "If we didn't fund single-payer health care enough, we'd have to deny services to some people". That's true, and trivial. The obvious solution would be funding it more, to whatever extent we, as a society, are comfortable with.
I know this must be really frustrating, but I'm not exactly a fan of bureaucracy and American bureaucracy is built thick enough that it can very well do so.
It is really weird and very annoying that you seem to think that bureaucracy is something only government has. Can you explain why you think that?
| 444 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:35:55am |
re: #443 Obdicut
Then that's a result of not funding the health care system enough. It's not a result of the bureaucrat's decision-making.
But they don't have an incentive to keep costs down unless they're ordered to keep costs down, and then that's a decision made by the government, with everyone voting on it. There are some things that single-payer insurance rejects because the cost vs. the outcome isn't very good. That's a rational way to apportion limited means.
You basically seem to be saying "If we didn't fund single-payer health care enough, we'd have to deny services to some people". That's true, and trivial. The obvious solution would be funding it more, to whatever extent we, as a society, are comfortable with.
It is really weird and very annoying that you seem to think that bureaucracy is something only government has. Can you explain why you think that?
Everybody gets to face a death panel. If it's not a bunch of insurance clerks, it could be the elected representatives of your fellow citizens. Or your kids.
| 445 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:36:05am |
re: #443 Obdicut
It is really weird and very annoying that you seem to think that bureaucracy is something only government has. Can you explain why you think that?
I didn't say it was something only government had. o_O
Perhaps it's because I live in the Philippines which has styled its government directly from the American period. Here, both government and private institutions wallow in it. In my college, often times I need to run between campus buildings to get something I could have easily accessed online in this community college I went to in Sacramento.
| 446 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:36:43am |
re: #444 Decatur Deb
Everybody gets to face a death panel. If it's not a bunch of insurance clerks, it could be the elected representatives of your fellow citizens. Or your kids.
Or doctors, who are heavily involved in such decisions in single-payer systems.
A friend of mine is on a transplant committee and she describes it as the most morally harrowing decision-making she's ever done.
| 447 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:37:32am |
re: #444 Decatur Deb
Everybody gets to face a death panel. If it's not a bunch of insurance clerks, it could be the elected representatives of your fellow citizens. Or your kids.
I love ya, dad...but it's time to go.
| 448 |
garhighway Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:38:56am |
re: #445 laZardo
I didn't say it was something only government had. o_O
Perhaps it's because I live in the Philippines which has styled its government directly from the American period. Here, both government and private institutions wallow in it. In my college, often times I need to run between campus buildings to get something I could have easily accessed online in this community college I went to in Sacramento.
Could you define what you mean by "bureaucrat"?
For example, does it include the actuary at a health insurer? The marketing guy? The person who runs the call center?
| 449 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:39:26am |
re: #445 laZardo
ARC or Sac City? (I went to Sac State, but took a couple of classes at American River CC) Both it and Sac City are very nice for community colleges.
| 450 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:39:41am |
re: #448 garhighway
Could you define what you mean by "bureaucrat"?
For example, does it include the actuary at a health insurer? The marketing guy? The person who runs the call center?
The people that create the system, essentially. The ones that make sure the procedures are long because - at least in my country's case - jobs are scarce.
| 451 |
garhighway Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:39:47am |
This just in: News Corp has pulled its offer for the remaining BSkyB shares per the NYT and WSJ.
| 452 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:39:59am |
re: #445 laZardo
In that last paragraph, you were using bureaucracy as a synonym for government bureaucracy.
You haven't provided a natural market incentive for the single-payer insurance to refuse to cover very sick people. If we decide to fund it to the tune of $5 a person, then we're not going to be able to treat anyone for anything. If we fund it appropriate to what everyone needs, everyone gets everything. If we fund it well, but not massively, then some people will have things denied when the cost/benefit analysis isn't good. And that is a rational apportioning of resources, which, ironically, is what capitalism is supposed to do.
| 453 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:40:37am |
Morning all!
Yep, fb pissed me off again this morning. I need to quit logging-in until I've had at least 10 cuppas.
How are you-all?
| 454 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:40:48am |
re: #446 Obdicut
Or doctors, who are heavily involved in such decisions in single-payer systems.
A friend of mine is on a transplant committee and she describes it as the most morally harrowing decision-making she's ever done.
re: #447 darthstar
I love ya, dad...but it's time to go.
Yes. After my FIL shot himself, he hung on in intensive care for a week. The hospital formed a "palliative care team" of very good people. With their help, his daughter (and I) made a correct decision.
| 455 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:41:35am |
re: #292 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin
Some days, I wonder about that mind of hers. Especially when she says idiotic crap like in the OP. "It's part of Satan" rotfl
I know, I don't even know what that means.
| 456 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:43:22am |
re: #455 ggt
I know, I don't even know what that means.
She meant that it's doing Satan's work to say that homosexuals are 'gay' because she thinks it implies they're happy and she thinks homosexuality is a sad, cursed 'lifestyle'.
I think she honestly feels bad for homosexuals, because I think she's a raving nutjob.
| 457 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:43:43am |
re: #455 ggt
I know, I don't even know what that means.
It means Satan's gay.
Or your gay.
Or gay is gay.
Or something.
| 458 |
Eventual Carrion Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:44:24am |
re: #93 albusteve
I cried because I had no shoes...
til I met a man who had no feet
Today I saw a man with artificial legs and real feet.
- Steven Wright
| 459 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:45:20am |
| 460 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:45:22am |
re: #457 Varek Raith
Is Bachmann an SP fan?
| 461 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:45:30am |
re: #452 Obdicut
In that last paragraph, you were using bureaucracy as a synonym for government bureaucracy.
You haven't provided a natural market incentive for the single-payer insurance to refuse to cover very sick people. If we decide to fund it to the tune of $5 a person, then we're not going to be able to treat anyone for anything. If we fund it appropriate to what everyone needs, everyone gets everything. If we fund it well, but not massively, then some people will have things denied when the cost/benefit analysis isn't good. And that is a rational apportioning of resources, which, ironically, is what capitalism is supposed to do.
Maybe I'm just being pessimistic, but we don't exactly live in "natural market" times anymore. The money still has to filter down through all the paperwork.
Unlike the EU (and from where I live, regional role models Singapore), who were able to work out such things from the start post-WWII, both the American government and the American health insurance industry managed to accumulate so much paperwork in between that you'd probably have to tear the current system down and rebuild it from the ground up in order for it to be somewhat effective without requiring so much funding as to make the "natural market" unattractive.
I don't want to be hung out as a TPer here.
| 462 |
McSpiff Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:46:35am |
re: #403 Sergey Romanov
(Not that any mention of the GULAG in the context of 1970s-1990s is meaningful. But whatever, indeed.)
Many Americans/Westerners would be quite shocked to find out that the Soviet Union that finally collapsed was very different from that of Stalin's day.
| 463 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:46:45am |
re: #460 Sergey Romanov
Is Bachmann an SP fan?
Officially, yes. At some point they will be struggling for the same oxygen.
| 464 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:46:56am |
re: #456 Obdicut
She meant that it's doing Satan's work to say that homosexuals are 'gay' because she thinks it implies they're happy and she thinks homosexuality is a sad, cursed 'lifestyle'.
I think she honestly feels bad for homosexuals, because I think she's a raving nutjob.
"It's part of Satan".
Is Satan a pie? Are their enough pieces to go around?
| 465 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:47:33am |
re: #464 ggt
"It's part of Satan".
Is Satan a pie? Are their enough pieces to go around?
There is Devils Food Cake.
| 466 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:47:49am |
| 467 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:48:11am |
re: #461 laZardo
I'm sorry, I just don't get your point at all. You seem to just be saying there's a lot of bureacacy and that sucks. You're not actually engaging with the point I"m making:
A health insurance company has an active incentive to kick sick people off the rolls.
A single-payer insurance system doesn't.
The amount of paperwork is entirely fucking orthogonal to this and has shit-all to do with it. If you want to complain about bureaucracy, have at it, but it is meaningless in the context of a comparison of the systems.
| 468 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:48:36am |
| 469 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:48:47am |
re: #465 Cannadian Club Akbar
There is Devils Food Cake.
The cake is a lie. But Satan is the father of lies... CONSPIRACY!!!
| 470 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:49:19am |
re: #463 Decatur Deb
I meant South Park though, so it took a minute to figure out you meant Sarah Palin.
| 471 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:49:50am |
Murdoch buyback strategy fails to stem investor flight
AN AUDACIOUS plan to buy back $4.7 billion worth of News Corporation shares has failed to stop investors fleeing Rupert Murdoch's scandal-ridden media empire, with its shares falling for the third successive day.
| 472 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:49:54am |
Really? Who uses words like "Satan" anymore.
Bachman is living in an alternate reality.
| 473 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:50:21am |
re: #470 Sergey Romanov
I meant South Park though, so it took a minute to figure out you meant Sarah Palin.
There is only one SP, and Bill Kristol is her prophet.
| 474 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:50:48am |
re: #472 ggt
Really? Who uses words like "Satan" anymore.
Bachman is living in an alternate reality.
Exactly. His name is Stan.
| 475 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:51:42am |
re: #474 Cannadian Club Akbar
Exactly. His name is Stan.
OMG, I forgot about Stan.
Are their enough pieces to go around. I want one. It would like nice on my mantle.
| 476 |
garhighway Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:52:16am |
re: #467 Obdicut
I'm sorry, I just don't get your point at all. You seem to just be saying there's a lot of bureacacy and that sucks. You're not actually engaging with the point I"m making:
A health insurance company has an active incentive to kick sick people off the rolls.
A single-payer insurance system doesn't.
The amount of paperwork is entirely fucking orthogonal to this and has shit-all to do with it. If you want to complain about bureaucracy, have at it, but it is meaningless in the context of a comparison of the systems.
And a single-payor system has automatic advantages that make it more efficient. No marketing budget. No producer/agent compensation.
Medicare's stats bear that out: it is significantly more efficient that private carriers.
They all require paperwork, but I see technology making that more painless as time goes on.
| 477 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:52:22am |
re: #465 Cannadian Club Akbar
There is Devils Food Cake.
There was a local band in Sacramento when I was in college with a song called "Satanic Picnic" - basic heavy metal beat with a verse that went something along the lines of:
We'll have eggs...but THEY GOT TO BE DEVILED!!!
We'll have ham...but IT'S GOT TO BE DEVILED!!!
Kind of cute when they played it live.
| 478 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:52:45am |
re: #475 ggt
OMG, I forgot about Stan.
Are their enough pieces to go around. I want one. It would like nice on my mantle.
Doesn't matter, I probably couldn't afford it. My soul is listed at a rock-bottom price right now.
| 480 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:53:36am |
re: #468 darthstar
Wow...that had to be tough.
A little, he was an 89 yr old combat vet, who rode a Harley until 6 mos before he went. In the end he just disintegrated rapidly, mostly lung cancer.
| 481 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:53:45am |
re: #476 garhighway
The Republicans are all about Single Prayer health care...just ask the Bachmanns.
| 482 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:54:06am |
| 483 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:54:24am |
re: #478 ggt
Doesn't matter, I probably couldn't afford it. My soul is listed at a rock-bottom price right now.
Where does one go to sell a soul? Is there like a Stanslist or something?
| 484 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:54:38am |
re: #483 thedopefishlives
Where does one go to sell a soul? Is there like a Stanslist or something?
I buy them.
| 485 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:54:40am |
| 486 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:54:52am |
re: #467 Obdicut
I'm sorry, I just don't get your point at all. You seem to just be saying there's a lot of bureacacy and that sucks. You're not actually engaging with the point I"m making:
A health insurance company has an active incentive to kick sick people off the rolls.
A single-payer insurance system doesn't.
The amount of paperwork is entirely fucking orthogonal to this and has shit-all to do with it. If you want to complain about bureaucracy, have at it, but it is meaningless in the context of a comparison of the systems.
The point I'm trying to engage is that normally it wouldn't. It's been demonstrated in both Europe and Eastern Asia quite well, to be sure.
Unfortunately, America does not work like Europe or Eastern Asia. I was simply trying to clarify that a theoretical American single-payer system as compared to the ones in place in Europe/Eastern Asia wouldn't actually somehow find such incentives given the systems preceding its institution.
| 487 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:55:18am |
| 488 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:56:17am |
Low-Flying Choppers In King, Pierce Counties To Measure Radiation
[Link: www.kirotv.com...]
"SEATTLE -- Research is under way to help prepare Western Washington for a radiation emergency. For the next two weeks, a helicopter will fly over King and Pierce counties just 300 feet off the ground.
The data will help officials determine normal radiation levels so if there is an emergency they'll be able to know if changes in the levels are dangerous.
"There's all kinds of naturally occurring radioactive material out there," said Leo Wainhouse with the Washington State Department of Health. "If we had some kidn of incident or accident involving radioactive material, we'd know what was here to begin with."
KIRO 7 checked with the health department for weeks following the disaster at the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan in March. Radiation levels increased very slightly and have since gone back down.
This type of mapping has been done in several highly populated areas around the country, but never Seattle.
The research is paid for through a grant offered by the Department of Homeland Security.
The radiation mapping starts in Seattle, and the helicopter will fly in a grid pattern, measuring radiation levels around the city. The chopper will then circle Bellevue before moving on to other areas of King and Pierce counties, including Tacoma."
| 489 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:56:51am |
re: #483 thedopefishlives
Where does one go to sell a soul? Is there like a Stanslist or something?
The soul bubble collapsed when Lady GaGa crashed the market.
| 490 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:56:55am |
re: #483 thedopefishlives
Where does one go to sell a soul? Is there like a Stanslist or something?
Bachman and Assoc.
| 491 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:57:25am |
| 492 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:57:40am |
re: #486 laZardo
I'm really at a loss. I can't perceive any actual argument you're making, other than "Those darn bureaucrats might fuck it all up".
Never mind the actual closest things we have to single payer-- medicare and VA-- both get high marks from their consumers in how well they're run and administrated, never mind that they have a much smaller bureaucracy than the private insurance companies, you're saying that the government bureaucrats will create incentives to kick sick people of the rolls, apparently just for kicks.
| 493 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:57:57am |
re: #488 Ericus58
Low-Flying Choppers In King, Pierce Counties To Measure Radiation
[Link: www.kirotv.com...]
"SEATTLE -- Research is under way to help prepare Western Washington for a radiation emergency. For the next two weeks, a helicopter will fly over King and Pierce counties just 300 feet off the ground.
The data will help officials determine normal radiation levels so if there is an emergency they'll be able to know if changes in the levels are dangerous.
"There's all kinds of naturally occurring radioactive material out there," said Leo Wainhouse with the Washington State Department of Health. "If we had some kidn of incident or accident involving radioactive material, we'd know what was here to begin with."
KIRO 7 checked with the health department for weeks following the disaster at the Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan in March. Radiation levels increased very slightly and have since gone back down.
This type of mapping has been done in several highly populated areas around the country, but never Seattle.
The research is paid for through a grant offered by the Department of Homeland Security.
The radiation mapping starts in Seattle, and the helicopter will fly in a grid pattern, measuring radiation levels around the city. The chopper will then circle Bellevue before moving on to other areas of King and Pierce counties, including Tacoma."
BLACKC HELICOPTERS!!11ONE
/wait for it
//also typos intended
| 494 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:58:13am |
| 495 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:58:37am |
| 496 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:58:56am |
re: #462 McSpiff
Many Americans/Westerners would be quite shocked to find out that the Soviet Union that finally collapsed was very different from that of Stalin's day.
Exactly. It's about as comparable as the Soviet and American systems ;-)
| 497 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:58:59am |
| 498 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:59:12am |
| 499 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:59:24am |
re: #496 Sergey Romanov
Exactly. It's about as comparable as the Soviet and American systems ;-)
Okay, now you're just trolling. :-P
| 500 |
garhighway Wed, Jul 13, 2011 6:59:40am |
re: #492 Obdicut
I'm really at a loss. I can't perceive any actual argument you're making, other than "Those darn bureaucrats might fuck it all up".
Never mind the actual closest things we have to single payer-- medicare and VA-- both get high marks from their consumers in how well they're run and administrated, never mind that they have a much smaller bureaucracy than the private insurance companies, you're saying that the government bureaucrats will create incentives to kick sick people of the rolls, apparently just for kicks.
Don't let actual facts get into this discussion.
That would be unhealthy.
| 501 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:00:05am |
re: #499 thedopefishlives
Okay, now you're just trolling. :-P
In Soviet Russia You Troll... Troll?
Dammit!
| 502 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:00:11am |
re: #498 Decatur Deb
No ganja in the Bible.
I once rolled a joint using bible paper. We were out of zig zags and the paper was thin.
| 503 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:00:19am |
re: #492 Obdicut
I'm really at a loss. I can't perceive any actual argument you're making, other than "Those darn bureaucrats might fuck it all up".
Never mind the actual closest things we have to single payer-- medicare and VA-- both get high marks from their consumers in how well they're run and administrated, never mind that they have a much smaller bureaucracy than the private insurance companies, you're saying that the government bureaucrats will create incentives to kick sick people of the rolls, apparently just for kicks.
And I'd like to be proven wrong on that. I've heard some rather nasty stories about VA hospitals gone to shit and I'd prefer those hospitals be improved rather than leaving them at the (lack of?) mercy of private providers.
| 504 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:00:30am |
re: #499 thedopefishlives
Okay, now you're just trolling. :-P
Not really. For things you could do in 1980s you would be in prison in 1970s. For things you could do in 1970s you... And so it goes.
| 505 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:00:57am |
re: #498 Decatur Deb
No ganja in the Bible.
But there was acid. Burning bush, belly of the whale, walk on water...Only tripping people would think of that.
| 506 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:01:42am |
re: #505 darthstar
But there was acid. Burning bush, belly of the whale, walk on water...Only tripping people would think of that.
They had these little dead worms at the bottom of the wine flasks . . .
| 507 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:02:31am |
re: #502 Cannadian Club Akbar
I once rolled a joint using bible paper. We were out of zig zags and the paper was thin.
Some hotel guest might have been saved if not for you. Instead he just dialed up more porn.
| 508 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:02:33am |
re: #506 ggt
They had these little dead worms at the bottom of the wine flasks . . .
I think acid was made from moldy rye bread.
| 509 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:04:09am |
Murdoch Drops TV Takeover - Abandoned BSkyB Bid Is Latest Fallout of Hacking Scandal
That was after the British parliament united in its call for him to drop the takeover bid.
News Corp's got to fight a rearguard action to keep the mess from spreading, but because so many within the organization have switched jobs within the company - going from one of the British papers to a US outlet, or vice versa (including those at the heart of the scandal in the UK), trying to contain this is like a wildfire that is splitting out in hundreds of different directions at once and can't be controlled.
| 510 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:04:12am |
| 511 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:04:25am |
re: #507 Decatur Deb
Some hotel guest might have been saved if not for you. Instead he just dialed up more porn.
I didn't use the John 3:16 page, though.
/
| 512 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:04:52am |
re: #503 laZardo
And I'd like to be proven wrong on that. I've heard some rather nasty stories about VA hospitals gone to shit and I'd prefer those hospitals be improved rather than leaving them at the (lack of?) mercy of private providers.
Well, have you considered researching the subject yourself and discovering the easily-accessible information that most VA members are more satisfied with their care than private providers?
[Link: www.va.gov...]
You really seem like you're acting off of some sort of emotional thing here, having prejudged the facts.
| 513 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:05:12am |
The New Cat Stopper 2000
| 515 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:06:16am |
re: #511 Cannadian Club Akbar
I didn't use the John 3:16 page, though.
/
"..and the Lord said 'go soxs'"
| 516 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:06:49am |
re: #513 Killgore Trout
The New Cat Stopper 2000
[Video]
That is just evil. I can't imagine the repercussions if my Cat Overlord ever saw that video.
| 517 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:07:24am |
re: #509 lawhawk
Investigations in the US may be starting soon. It's really hard to grasp the implications. It could be huge.
| 518 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:08:20am |
re: #517 Killgore Trout
Investigations in the US may be starting soon. It's really hard to grasp the implications. It could be huge.
That frog came back.
Lol.
| 519 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:08:39am |
re: #516 ggt
That is just evil. I can't imagine the repercussions if my Cat Overlord ever saw that video.
I'm gonna try it on my friend's cat.:)
| 520 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:09:09am |
re: #519 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm gonna try it on my friend's cat.:)
You are taking a big risk. I advise you think it through.
| 521 |
blueraven Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:10:12am |
re: #511 Cannadian Club Akbar
I didn't use the John 3:16 page, though.
/
4:20?
BTW...you are going to hell for that anyway.
/
| 522 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:11:36am |
re: #517 Killgore Trout
The FCPA (Foreign Corrupt Practices Act) is just the tip of the iceberg, and considering that there are inklings that they may have tapped phones, hacked accounts of 9/11 victims families, or otherwise engaged in illegal activities you're going to see prosecutors opening up cases in NYC and elsewhere.
| 523 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:12:07am |
re: #493 laZardo
BLACKC HELICOPTERS!!11ONE
/wait for it
//also typos intended
My other car is a Black Helicopter.
| 524 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:16:08am |
re: #523 Alouette
My other car is a Black Helicopter.
It's the sky-blue helicopters that worry me
/:)
| 525 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:17:17am |
re: #493 laZardo
BLACKC HELICOPTERS!!11ONE
/wait for it
//also typos intended
Heh - a few have "whispered" about that already...
The ability to measure what radiation reached the Pac NW from the Japan disaster caught us without a measured/establish baseline for reference.
And you know how crazy those Canadians are on the border ;)
Of course, one can never be too sure about those rascals from the former Soviet bloc countries - or Russia - trying to peddle isotopes on the black market...
| 526 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:17:50am |
| 528 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:18:50am |
re: #513 Killgore Trout
The New Cat Stopper 2000
[Video]
That takes all the fun out of herding them.
| 529 |
blueraven Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:20:00am |
| 530 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:21:18am |
I have to wash dogs today. I really don't want to, but they won't wash themselves.
| 531 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:21:34am |
re: #527 blueraven
Uh oh...just in. 3 explosions in Mumbai
Mumbai: Explosions shake India's financial hub
| 532 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:21:40am |
re: #521 blueraven
4:20?
BTW...you are going to hell for that anyway.
/
Well, John 4:20 just so happens to be a real verse, and one that pretty much fucks over a lot of the Jesus freak candidates, especially if they claim to love god.
| 534 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:22:07am |
re: #529 blueraven
Police confirm 3 separate blasts.
Three blasts rocked Mumbai, police said on Wednesday. TV reports say at least 15 people have been injured.Two of the blasts were in south Mumbai, while one was in central Mumbai, police said. Blasts have been reported at the Dadar, Opera House and Zaveru Bazaar areas in Mumbai.
An NIA team has been sent for Mumbai. All states have been put on high alert.
Mumbai was the city where a 2008 gun raid by Pakistan-based militants killed at least 166 people.
| 535 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:23:44am |
Yay! I found a replacement for my dead googly phone! A friend of mine is an "early adopter" (his wife works for Google), and he has a G1 I can have. So I don't have to "upgrade" to another two year contract with T-Mobile...sweet.
| 536 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:24:18am |
| 537 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:25:30am |
re: #518 Varek Raith
That frog came back.
Lol.
Damn, He must really like you. I think you're stuck with him.
| 538 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:26:02am |
| 539 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:26:04am |
re: #536 Alouette
Birthday present for Kasab.
Holy shit...you know these guys' birthdays? I didn't even know who Kasab was. And yes, today is his birthday.
| 540 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:26:47am |
re: #536 Alouette
Birthday present for Kasab.
They might be taking advantage of the rift between the US and the Pakistan intel agencies.
| 541 |
BongCrodny Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:26:56am |
re: #502 Cannadian Club Akbar
I once rolled a joint using bible paper. We were out of zig zags and the paper was thin.
Once?
Lightweight.
| 542 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:27:03am |
| 543 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:32:32am |
So yeah. Sorry for the rambling earlier. Caffeine got me antsy.
| 544 |
blueraven Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:33:04am |
re: #542 Ericus58
3 Dead, 25 wounded so far...
There is a 4th bomb that didn't go off. Authorities are "watching".
| 545 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:34:08am |
re: #539 darthstar
Holy shit...you know these guys' birthdays? I didn't even know who Kasab was. And yes, today is his birthday.
It was in the article.
| 546 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:37:02am |
re: #539 darthstar
Holy shit...you know these guys' birthdays? I didn't even know who Kasab was. And yes, today is his birthday.
BBC reported that today is his birthday. I hope he never has another one.
| 547 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:41:24am |
Odds are that LeT is behind this just as they were behind the 2008 bombings. Mass casualty attacks are their hallmark, and given the "coincidence" that this is Kasab's birthday, expect the Indian authorities to point the finger at LeT and the Pakistanis.
| 550 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:46:47am |
re: #548 Cannadian Club Akbar
It's a child porn case and he's acting as his own lawyer so he gets to review the evidence, which includes child porn pictures.
*deleted*
| 551 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:47:08am |
re: #548 Cannadian Club Akbar
*facefnpalm*
Don't they destroy this kind of evidence after the trial?
| 552 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:47:36am |
NDTV (live)
They're talking in Hindi but the crawl is in English.
| 553 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:47:44am |
re: #548 Cannadian Club Akbar
Words absolutely fail me. He is supervised, at least, but still, there's something absolutely wrong with letting this go on.
| 554 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:48:23am |
re: #552 Killgore Trout
NDTV (live)
They're talking in Hindi but the crawl is in English.
In English now.
| 556 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:49:10am |
re: #551 Sergey Romanov
Ah, somehow I missed the suspect part.
| 557 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:49:40am |
re: #553 thedopefishlives
Words absolutely fail me. He is supervised, at least, but still, there's something absolutely wrong with letting this go on.
Not really, because he is hanging himself by this very act.
| 559 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:50:54am |
re: #551 Sergey Romanov
He hasn't gone to trial yet. The prosecutor's office/corrections officers are in the room with him when he reviews the evidence.
| 560 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:52:17am |
Well shit. I just got a citation from HR for violating the corporate dress code. They don't like my crocs footwear. Now I will have to stop at a shoe store on the way home and buy something for my arthritic feet.
| 561 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:52:20am |
Believed to be a "shadow amalgam of the SIMI and Lashkar-e-Toiba", the Indian Mujahideen have been declared a terrorist organization.[2] However, no decision had been made to ban the organisation as of 28 September 2008.[3]
Investigators believe that Indian Mujahideen is one of many groups composed of lower-tier SIMI members.
| 562 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:54:11am |
re: #560 Alouette
Well shit. I just got a citation from HR for violating the corporate dress code. They don't like my crocs footwear. Now I will have to stop at a shoe store on the way home and buy something for my arthritic feet.
Ouch. That sucks. Is it a safety policy type of thing? At my previous job, because we were a manufacturing company with a shop floor, open shoes were not allowed in the building and you had to buy special safety shoes if you were walking anywhere within the shop area. If not, then I would make sure you got all that in writing. Then come back with your crocs and a letter from your doctor. ;)
| 563 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:58:29am |
re: #562 thedopefishlives
Ouch. That sucks. Is it a safety policy type of thing? At my previous job, because we were a manufacturing company with a shop floor, open shoes were not allowed in the building and you had to buy special safety shoes if you were walking anywhere within the shop area. If not, then I would make sure you got all that in writing. Then come back with your crocs and a letter from your doctor. ;)
No.
I recommend some toilet paper and some stink bombs.
That'll learn em!
/
| 564 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 7:59:38am |
re: #562 thedopefishlives
Ouch. That sucks. Is it a safety policy type of thing? At my previous job, because we were a manufacturing company with a shop floor, open shoes were not allowed in the building and you had to buy special safety shoes if you were walking anywhere within the shop area. If not, then I would make sure you got all that in writing. Then come back with your crocs and a letter from your doctor. ;)
I am in cubicle land, no shop floor in this building, and I never even go into the cold computer room. However I do attend meetings with corporate execs. HR said I could get a note from my doctor, but why should I pass up an opportunity to buy new shoes?
| 565 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:00:08am |
re: #564 Alouette
I am in cubicle land, no shop floor in this building, and I never even go into the cold computer room. However I do attend meetings with corporate execs. HR said I could get a note from my doctor, but why should I pass up an opportunity to buy new shoes?
Hey, if that's how you want to look at it. Myself, I hate spending money on me, so I'd rather go get the note from the doctor.
| 567 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:01:00am |
Suspect arrested in the disappearance and murder of 9-year old Brooklyn boy Leibby Kletsky. The dismembered body of a missing 9-year-old Hasidic boy was found at two locations in Brooklyn this morning and police arrested 35-year-old Levi Aron in the slaying who had the child's severed feet in his freezer, sources told The Post.
Parts were found in a dumpster behind an auto parts store two miles from the apartment.
Sick *deleted* kidnaps, murders, and dismembers a 9-year old boy. WTF. Seriously *deleted*.
| 568 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:01:20am |
re: #564 Alouette
I am in cubicle land, no shop floor in this building, and I never even go into the cold computer room. However I do attend meetings with corporate execs. HR said I could get a note from my doctor, but why should I pass up an opportunity to buy new shoes?
Keep the new fancy shoes under your desk and put them on as needed. If HR says something about the crocs, just play dumb.
| 569 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:02:53am |
re: #568 Cannadian Club Akbar
Keep the new fancy shoes under your desk and put them on as needed. If HR says something about the crocs, just play dumb.
I can call the doc and have him fax a note about my arthritis.
| 570 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:03:36am |
re: #559 lawhawk
BTW, arrested in 2007 - why does it take so long?
| 571 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:04:40am |
re: #565 thedopefishlives
Hey, if that's how you want to look at it. Myself, I hate spending money on me, so I'd rather go get the note from the doctor.
You must be a guy.
| 572 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:04:44am |
re: #569 Alouette
I can call the doc and have him fax a note about my arthritis.
Have him fax pics of fancy shoes and tape them to your feet.
/
| 573 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:04:59am |
re: #569 Alouette
I can call the doc and have him fax a note about my arthritis.
When you win, you lose--Team Player and all.
| 574 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:05:33am |
| 575 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:05:45am |
re: #570 Sergey Romanov
BTW, arrested in 2007 - why does it take so long?
Referring to the previous discussion about jails, I'm going to make a no-faith-in-humanity assumption that they gave him that to "ease his pain" because child molesters tend to be fresh meat for the other criminals.
| 576 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:06:03am |
re: #573 Decatur Deb
When you win, you lose--Team Player and all.
There is no "I" in team but there is a "me".
| 577 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:06:30am |
re: #570 Sergey Romanov
I have no idea - maybe because the guy is representing himself (pro se), there was delays in prosecution because of all manner of frivolous filings, but it also appears that at least part of the delay is due to the need to rule whether he was able to represent himself - including the decision to allow him to view the very evidence that put him in jeopardy of the crimes alleged in the first time.
| 578 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:07:26am |
Fox finally covers the Murdoch scandal: News Corp. Withdraws Bid for BSkyB
| 579 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:07:35am |
re: #560 Alouette
Well shit. I just got a citation from HR for violating the corporate dress code. They don't like my crocs footwear. Now I will have to stop at a shoe store on the way home and buy something for my arthritic feet.
Birkenstocks.
| 580 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:09:10am |
re: #576 Cannadian Club Akbar
And a 'meat'. "I got your team right here, Vinnie."
| 581 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:10:09am |
Aw, Sherwood Schwartz has moved on to that three hour tour in the sky. Thank you for making my childhood even more fun for 30 minutes a week (and for getting me through countless hours of being stoned watching re-runs in college)
| 582 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:12:10am |
re: #581 darthstar
Aw, Sherwood Schwartz has moved on to that three hour tour in the sky. Thank you for making my childhood even more fun for 30 minutes a week (and for getting me through countless hours of being stoned watching re-runs in college)
[Link: stubbleyou.blogspot.com...]
I have no idea why the Skipper wanted to leave the island!
| 583 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:12:44am |
re: #578 Killgore Trout
MSNBC reports: The Daily Mirror claims that News of the World contacted a NYPD officer (now working as a private investigator) to to retrieve the private phone records of victims of the September 11, 2001, attacks:
The newspaper said journalists had wanted the phone numbers of the dead as well as details of the calls they had made and received in the days leading to the attacks.The police officer, who now works as a private investigator, said at the time that he would turn down the request because of "how bad it would look," the source was quoted as saying.
Just because this one turned it down doesn't mean others didn't look for a payday, but it does show the depths to which the media outlet would go to get information.
| 584 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:16:34am |
re: #583 lawhawk
Almost literal vultures.
| 585 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:17:27am |
| 586 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:19:04am |
re: #584 Sergey Romanov
Thing is that many of the phone calls made by victims on 9/11 to 911 were released as part of a FOIA request by a number of papers and some have been broadcast as part of 9/11 coverage. There was some measure of news value in that request, but there's no reason to delve into any of the phone records beyond that. As you say, vultures.
| 587 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:22:22am |
| 588 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:23:29am |
re: #586 lawhawk
Thing is that many of the phone calls made by victims on 9/11 to 911 were released as part of a FOIA request by a number of papers and some have been broadcast as part of 9/11 coverage. There was some measure of news value in that request, but there's no reason to delve into any of the phone records beyond that. As you say, vultures.
Well, there is a reason, albeit not a legitimate one. If someone is a paranoid 9/11 Twoofy Twoof fanatic, they may decide to use their journalistic privileges to dig around in otherwise private data in an attempt to find something "damning". It makes one wonder, anyway.
| 589 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:24:13am |
re: #587 Alouette
Vultures gotta eat.
And help the soul toward reincarnation.
Oh wait, we're not talking about Tibetan custom?
| 590 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:24:41am |
Kids playing with inferno:
[Link: www.darkreading.com...]
| 592 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:29:40am |
re: #590 Sergey Romanov
Kids playing with inferno:
[Link: www.darkreading.com...]
That lack of security smarts is depressing--Booz Allen has been in the business since DARPAnet.
| 593 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:30:31am |
re: #592 Decatur Deb
That lack of security smarts is depressing--Booz Allen has been in the business since DARPAnet.
Internet Security?
What's that???
Oy.
| 594 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:31:12am |
re: #592 Decatur Deb
If what the kids say about the alleged social networks manipulation software to influence public opinion is true, I would like to know about that. Doesn't seem to be a legitimate interest of the military (sorry).
| 596 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:32:25am |
re: #594 Sergey Romanov
If what the kids say about the alleged social networks manipulation software to influence public opinion is true, I would like to know about that. Doesn't seem to be a legitimate interest of the military (sorry).
Yeah--I'm of two minds about the snoops. It's just the lame security incompetence that depresses.
| 597 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:33:05am |
re: #595 Gus 802
KLUNK!
[Falls over podium like Gerald Ford.]
Next you need to fall down the stairs to Airforce One.
| 598 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:33:18am |
re: #596 Decatur Deb
Now that I think about it, it may be legitimate if used not inside the military's country. (Not that it would be terribly effective, mind you...)
| 599 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:34:10am |
re: #583 lawhawk
MSNBC reports: The Daily Mirror claims that News of the World contacted a NYPD officer (now working as a private investigator) to to retrieve the private phone records of victims of the September 11, 2001, attacks:
Just because this one turned it down doesn't mean others didn't look for a payday, but it does show the depths to which the media outlet would go to get information.
The Republican party is so married to Fox News I still have a hard time imagining that Murdoch's American outlets would get into any serious trouble here. I suppose if this gets big enough they might not be able to help but I'm pretty sure they'll try.
| 600 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:34:17am |
Fire in the hole!
Panetta signals a new tone on U.S.-led wars
The new Defense secretary makes it clear he wants to set limits — on his military commanders, on the expectations of America's allies and on the U.S. defense budget — to get the Pentagon off a permanent war footing.
Reporting from Baghdad—
Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta carried an unmistakable message on his first overseas trip since taking office this month: One way or another, the two wars that have consumed the Pentagon for much of the last decade are nearing an end.Panetta declared after departing Washington on Friday that Al Qaeda appeared on the verge of defeat. In Afghanistan, he stressed that the U.S. military must transfer security responsibility to the Afghan army. And in Iraq he emphasized that most, if not all, U.S. troops would pull out by year's end.
In tone and substance, it was a noticeable shift from his predecessor, Robert M. Gates. During his tenure, Gates gradually adopted the view of many of his top commanders that defeating insurgents and terrorists was a generational struggle, requiring painstaking counterinsurgency warfare, prolonged deployments of U.S. forces abroad, and ever-growing defense budgets.
Panetta, who returned to Washington late Tuesday, did not directly repudiate that way of thinking. He made it clear that winning the nation's wars, including the NATO-led air campaign in Libya, remains his top objective.
But he also gave clear indications that he is intent on setting limits — on his military commanders, on the expectations of America's allies and on the defense budget — in an effort to gradually shift the Pentagon from a permanent war footing.
| 601 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:34:43am |
Why the hell do they make headphone cords so stupidly short?!!?
| 602 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:34:54am |
re: #598 Sergey Romanov
Now that I think about it, it may be legitimate if used not inside the military's country. (Not that it would be terribly effective, mind you...)
G. Gordon Liddy, Oliver North, J. Edgar Hoover.
| 603 |
garhighway Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:35:24am |
re: #599 Killgore Trout
The Republican party is so married to Fox News I still have a hard time imagining that Murdoch's American outlets would get into any serious trouble here. I suppose if this gets big enough they might not be able to help but I'm pretty sure they'll try.
If they screwed with NYC cops regarding 9/11, the GOP won't be able to help them.
| 604 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:35:33am |
re: #590 Sergey Romanov
Kids playing with inferno:
[Link: www.darkreading.com...]
A lot of poor young dimwits are going to spend a very long time in jail.
| 605 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:35:33am |
re: #595 Gus 802
KLUNK!
[Falls over podium like Gerald Ford.]
"Why'd you pardon Nixon?"
/classic episode
| 606 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:35:58am |
re: #598 Sergey Romanov
Now that I think about it, it may be legitimate if used not inside the military's country. (Not that it would be terribly effective, mind you...)
IOW, bullshitting own people - not OK, bullshitting non-allies - business as usual.
| 607 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:36:20am |
re: #601 Varek Raith
Why the hell do they make headphone cords so stupidly short?!!?
Let me get back to you on that. I'll have my people contact your people.
| 608 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:36:45am |
re: #607 Gus 802
Let me get back to you on that. I'll have my people contact your people.
SO YOU'RE BEHIND THIS?!!?
| 609 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:37:34am |
re: #603 garhighway
If they screwed with NYC cops regarding 9/11, the GOP won't be able to help them.
Republicans already threw them under the bus by attempting to block healthcare payments to 9-11 first responders. They'll do it again to protect Murdoch.
| 611 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:38:42am |
| 612 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:38:56am |
You ever notice how Panetta looks like he should have been on a 70s sitcom playing a dad or something?
Deep thoughts.
/
| 614 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:40:22am |
| 615 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:41:19am |
re: #601 Varek Raith
Why the hell do they make headphone cords so stupidly short?!!?
They think you should have a longer neck!
| 616 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:41:41am |
| 618 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:42:06am |
Wait! Here's one for all of the penal-industry fans!
Prison doctor gets paid for doing little or nothing
Reporting from Sacramento -- The highest-paid state employee in California last year, a prison surgeon who took home $777,423, has a history of mental illness, was fired once for alleged incompetence and has not been allowed to treat an inmate for six years because medical supervisors don't trust his clinical skills.
Since July 2005, Dr. Jeffrey Rohlfing has mostly been locked out of his job — on paid leave or fired or fighting his termination — at High Desert State Prison in Susanville, state records show. When he has been allowed inside the facility, he has been relegated to reviewing paper medical histories, what prison doctors call "mailroom" duty.
Rohlfing's $235,740 base pay, typical in California's corrections system, accounted for about a third of his income last year. The rest of the money was back pay for more than two years when he did no work for the state while appealing his termination. A supervisor had determined that Rohlfing provided substandard care for two patients, according to state Personnel Board records.
Wow.
| 619 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:42:21am |
re: #601 Varek Raith
Choking hazards? Must be the lawyers at work...
| 620 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:42:30am |
| 621 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:43:45am |
| 623 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:44:52am |
Fiscal incompetence in California? No way.
Rohlfing isn't the only doctor in California's cash-strapped prisons earning big money to shuffle paper. Dozens have been relegated to the chore in recent years, according to Kincaid, who said it's the standard assignment given to physicians when questions arise about their clinical ability. Some eventually return to treating patients, some quit and others are ultimately fired, she added.
Last year, a prison doctor who was fired for letting his license expire and was later reinstated by the Personnel Board received $313,610 in back pay, records show. Another, fired for "extreme departure from the medically accepted standard of care," was reinstated and collected $298,787 in lost wages. And a surgeon who had been fired, then put on three years' probation, for missed diagnoses that led to the deaths of two inmates and treatment that robbed another inmate of vision, collected $193,779 in back pay.
| 624 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:45:01am |
re: #618 Gus 802
Wait! Here's one for all of the penal-industry fans!
Prison doctor gets paid for doing little or nothing
Wow.
He's the Doctor of Superjail.
| 625 |
Lidane Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:45:51am |
re: #612 Gus 802
You ever notice how Panetta looks like he should have been on a 70s sitcom playing a dad or something?
Deep thoughts.
/
Hilariously, the guy who played the dad on That 70's Show just played a CIA agent on a TV show.
| 627 |
blueraven Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:48:01am |
re: #609 Killgore Trout
Republicans already threw them under the bus by attempting to block healthcare payments to 9-11 first responders. They'll do it again to protect Murdoch.
I dont know...if it looks like Murdoch is going down, I can see the GOP abandoning ship. Maybe the Koch bros will take over news corp.
/half
| 628 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:48:04am |
re: #625 Lidane
Hilariously, the guy who played the dad on That 70's Show just played a CIA agent on a TV show.
"If you don't tell me what I need to know, I'll plant my foot in your ass!"
| 629 |
Lidane Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:49:55am |
| 630 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:50:20am |
The "Stripper Rap" campaign video didn't cut it--Hahn won in CA.
| 631 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:53:18am |
re: #625 Lidane
Hilariously, the guy who played the dad on That 70's Show just played a CIA agent on a TV show.
As well as one of the main villains in Robocop.
"And I have the right to stick my foot up your shiny metal ass!"
/well, he should have said that.
| 632 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:53:22am |
re: #630 Decatur Deb
The "Stripper Rap" campaign video didn't cut it--Hahn won in CA.
I don't know if that's good or bad...I know almost nothing about her...but I'm pleased that 'Stripper Rap' didn't appeal to enough people to turn the tide.
| 633 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:56:46am |
re: #632 SanFranciscoZionist
I don't know if that's good or bad...I know almost nothing about her...but I'm pleased that 'Stripper Rap' didn't appeal to enough people to turn the tide.
Blue Dog Dem vs. TeaPartier. Sorta good thing.
| 634 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 8:59:22am |
California pays more than 1,400 workers in excess of $200,000
Many are prison doctors, dentists or nurses. Total compensation can be pushed higher by payouts for unused vacation and sick time. Last year, a prison doctor collected $777,423 and a dentist got $599,403.
Reporting from Sacramento -- More than 1,400 state employees were paid in excess of $200,000 last year, according to compensation data made public for the first time Tuesday on Controller John Chiang's website.
Of those, 790 were prison doctors, dentists or nurses. More than 300 others were psychiatrists and other medical professionals working for the Department of Mental Health.
One prison doctor collected $777,423 in 2010 and a dentist took home $599,403, according to the website. The president of the state's stem cell research agency received $482,234.
The database lists state positions by title and allows users to sort by department, salary range and total wages.
Chiang, a Democrat who has received millions in campaign contributions from state employee unions, did not include workers' names even though that information is public and has been provided upon request for years.
| 635 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:01:01am |
re: #634 Gus 802
Yeah, doctors, in general, are expensive.
Why we hired incompetents in the first place is more interesting to me than how much we spend on them.
| 636 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:01:14am |
re: #633 Decatur Deb
Blue Dog Dem vs. TeaPartier. Sorta good thing.
Yo dawg, I heard you like Tea Parties.
| 637 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:02:07am |
re: #634 Gus 802
Watch the website--Isn't the 777,000 doc the one who includes a couple years back pay?
| 638 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:02:37am |
re: #635 Obdicut
Yeah, doctors, in general, are expensive.
Why we hired incompetents in the first place is more interesting to me than how much we spend on them.
And apparently 600K for a dentist. That must be some dentist.
It won't change. SOS FUBAR SNAFU
| 639 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:03:08am |
re: #637 Decatur Deb
Watch the website--Isn't the 777,000 doc the one who includes a couple years back pay?
Yep. Same one.
| 640 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:03:10am |
| 641 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:04:08am |
re: #639 Gus 802
Yep. Same one.
So his pay is really probably under 200K. The reporters are case-making.
| 642 |
Douchecanoe and Ryan Too Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:05:19am |
re: #641 Decatur Deb
So his pay is really probably under 200K. The reporters are case-making.
I think the article mentioned his base pay was like $250k or something like that.
| 643 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:05:42am |
re: #638 Gus 802
Well, it's 600k from a few years, piled up. So the reporting on it is taking the one-year pay out and making it seem like that's annual salary.
| 644 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:06:16am |
re: #641 Decatur Deb
So his pay is really probably under 200K. The reporters are case-making.
No. This is from the first story.
Rohlfing's $235,740 base pay, typical in California's corrections system, accounted for about a third of his income last year. The rest of the money was back pay for more than two years when he did no work for the state while appealing his termination. A supervisor had determined that Rohlfing provided substandard care for two patients, according to state Personnel Board records.
He took home over 700K which includes back pay. He still makes over 200K a year base pay as the second article reports.
| 645 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:07:22am |
re: #642 thedopefishlives
I think the article mentioned his base pay was like $250k or something like that.
Don't know CA payscales, but that doesn't sound exceptional for an MD. The problem seems to be that the CA prison managers don't really know how to hire or fire docs.
| 646 |
garhighway Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:07:30am |
re: #609 Killgore Trout
Republicans already threw them under the bus by attempting to block healthcare payments to 9-11 first responders. They'll do it again to protect Murdoch.
My point is that there will be no way the GOP can run interference in an NYC-based investigation: they aren't a force on the ground. There's no Republican in the city that can or would try to slow that train down.
| 647 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:07:34am |
re: #643 Obdicut
Well, it's 600k from a few years, piled up. So the reporting on it is taking the one-year pay out and making it seem like that's annual salary.
He shouldn't have been given back pay in the first place.
| 648 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:07:38am |
More pressure on Murdoch in the US...
Key senator urges federal investigation of Murdoch media company
The phone-hacking scandal engulfing Rupert Murdoch's media empire intensified in the United States Wednesday as a veteran senator urged the Justice Department to investigate whether one of Murdoch's U.S.-based companies violated federal anti-bribery laws.Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-New Jersey, sent a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder asking Holder to look into concerns that News Corp. -- the parent company of Fox News -- violated the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, known as the FCPA. The law, enacted in 1977, makes it illegal for a U.S. person or company to pay foreign officials to obtain or retain business.
| 649 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:09:16am |
re: #618 Gus 802
Wait! Here's one for all of the penal-industry fans!
Prison doctor gets paid for doing little or nothing
Wow.
My brother-in-law is so applying for that job!
| 650 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:09:18am |
re: #644 Gus 802
And if he were a great doctor, that pay would be perfectly fine.
But he's not. And they attempted to fire him, but were ordered to rehire him.
The 'mailroom' duty is the administration trying to minimize his damage, since they had to rehire him.
So, to me, the question is how he got hired and how he got rehired. The latter, especially; why did the court force them to rehire?
| 652 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:09:52am |
re: #644 Gus 802
No. This is from the first story.
He took home over 700K which includes back pay. He still makes over 200K a year base pay as the second article reports.
Headline: Prison Doc Makes 700K.
That's playing to the reading-impaired.
| 653 |
garhighway Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:10:18am |
re: #643 Obdicut
Well, it's 600k from a few years, piled up. So the reporting on it is taking the one-year pay out and making it seem like that's annual salary.
In general the media is lousy at reporting on pay issues. They mess it up when they report on executive pay, too, by treating deferred, variable comp like it is base pay. The subtleties of the issue are simply beyond them.
| 655 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:10:41am |
re: #650 Obdicut
And if he were a great doctor, that pay would be perfectly fine.
But he's not. And they attempted to fire him, but were ordered to rehire him.
The 'mailroom' duty is the administration trying to minimize his damage, since they had to rehire him.
So, to me, the question is how he got hired and how he got rehired. The latter, especially; why did the court force them to rehire?
That's the key word there. Great doctor. They're the ones that make over 200K a year. Great doctors don't become prison doctors.
| 656 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:11:10am |
re: #652 Decatur Deb
Headline: Prison Doc Makes 700K.
That's playing to the reading-impaired.
That's not what it says.
| 657 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:11:55am |
| 658 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:12:03am |
re: #647 Gus 802
He shouldn't have been given back pay in the first place.
Well, legally, he should have. He was reinstated. The problem appears to be the personnel board being way too lenient.
The salaries are appropriate for the positions. The people are not.
| 659 |
Gus Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:13:15am |
re: #657 Decatur Deb
I think that's how it was intended to be read.
Well look at it this way. People can always blame all of this on Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.
| 660 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:14:23am |
re: #655 Gus 802
That's the key word there. Great doctor. They're the ones that make over 200K a year. Great doctors don't become prison doctors.
Good morn! I'm not following this story, but do want to comment. I worked for a Doctor who was a great doctor, but she was also a caring liberal who wanted to help people. She quit her practice to work at Pelican Bay (the worst prison in CA) Really, out of a willingness to contribute. I salute her and hope she's making similar $ to what she did previously.
| 661 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:14:56am |
re: #655 Gus 802
That's the key word there. Great doctor. They're the ones that make over 200K a year. Great doctors don't become prison doctors.
True, but there is a "combat pay" concept at work. (Disclosure--daughter is a prison teacher--she is a great teacher, County teacher of the year, and won a national award for innovation last year. She teaches entirely from Kindle.)
| 662 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:15:30am |
re: #659 Gus 802
Well look at it this way. People can always blame all of this on Republican Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Why would we?
Arnold has been forced to be a little bit firmer with the various prison lobbies than past executives, simply from financial necessity. So, if anything, he's done slightly better in dealing with the unwieldy, desperate prisons situation in California.
He could be doing a lot more, sure. But so could Obama.
| 663 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:16:08am |
re: #661 Decatur Deb
True, but there is a "combat pay" concept at work. (Disclosure--daughter is a prison teacher--she is a great teacher, County teacher of the year, and won a national award for innovation last year. She teaches entirely from Kindle.)
Congrats to her. She has to be one combat-tough teacher to be able fend off the inevitable "advances" from her students.
| 664 |
garhighway Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:17:59am |
OT: here's an interesting piece from the on-line CJR about how badly the WSJ has covered the News of the World scandal:
[Link: www.cjr.org...]
Sample:
It’s been hard to watch The Wall Street Journal, still the global business-news leader, struggling with both hands tied behind its back to cover the incredible scandal now engulfing its parent.
The News of the World debacle—a five-alarm business story if there ever was one—is the acid test of my old paper’s independence. Of course, it’s not going well. This is a story it should be leading on, and, but for a certain feckless family that decided to go for the gold a few years ago, it would be.
If the phone-hacking scandal at the WSJ’s erstwhile sister paper (how does that sound?) was only about an *entire newsroom* gone out-of-control—paying cops for scoops, hacking phones of missing children and dead soldiers’ families—that in itself is flood-the-zone material.
But then its media parent just up and closes the thing down after 168 years? Just shutters it, tossing 2.6 million readers to the four winds?
We’re looking at a story that not only exposed rampant corruption and cover-ups at the highest levels of London’s Metropolitan police and ties between media executives and high government officials; this story hasn’t just jeopardized a crucially important merger; it has shaken the British government, and threatens the inner circle one of the world’s most powerful and influential media companies.
Indeed, the story is creeping toward U.S. shores and the CEO of Dow Jones, Les Hinton. (If you want to know what’s happening, obviously go to the Guardian.)
The Journal’s aversion to this story has been clear for a couple of years now. After the Guardian uncorked one of its more explosive stories back in 2009—that News Corp. executives had being buying the silence of hacking victims—the Journal offered only “British Tabloids Face Scrutiny By Government on Privacy Issues”. No, these were your British tabloids (the other named was the Sun, another WSJ, um, sister paper.
| 665 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:18:23am |
Troopers: Woman chasing ducks caused pileup on I-5
[Link: lynnwood.komonews.com...]
"The Washington State Patrol says a woman who stopped her car along Interstate 5 in Lynnwood and tried to corral a family of ducks and ducklings caused a multi-vehicle accident that disrupted southbound traffic for nearly three hours.
Trooper Keith Leary says no people were hurt Tuesday night, although the collision involved a jackknifed tractor-trailer rig and two passenger cars, including the duck lover's vehicle. He says at least two ducks were killed. Leary says he doesn't know how many ducks there were.
The trooper says the traffic backup in the Lynnwood area extended several miles at its worst with all southbound lanes except the carpool lane closed.
In his words, "As much as we all love animals, citizens should not stop and attempt to corral animals on the freeway."
He says the woman might face a disorderly conduct charge."
QUACK!! QUA.... *thump, thump"
/that was bad of me
| 666 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:19:14am |
re: #663 laZardo
Congrats to her. She has to be one combat-tough teacher to be able fend off the inevitable "advances" from her students.
It's a youth lock-up, 9-18 yr olds. She has a couple rapists and murderers a year, but mostly druggies. In the upper left corner of her blackboard she keeps a running number of her students who are dead--11 in 3 years when last I heard.
| 667 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:19:50am |
re: #665 Ericus58
He says at least two ducks were killed. Leary says he doesn't know how many ducks there were.
Leary says to stop asking questions about the damn ducks.
| 668 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:22:11am |
| 669 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:22:44am |
re: #666 Decatur Deb
It's a youth lock-up, 9-18 yr olds. She has a couple rapists and murderers a year, but mostly druggies. In the upper left corner of her blackboard she keeps a running number of her students who are dead--11 in 3 years when last I heard.
Whether from drug symptoms or the prison culture, those are still dead kids.
| 670 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:23:40am |
re: #643 Obdicut
The reporters are combining multiple years of pay if they had back pay actually compensated in the year - so it boosts their one-year salary far and above their actual base pay.
In those other years, the salary for these guys were zeroed out by the DOC while fighting to get these guys booted.
So it makes it look like the pay is well out of scale and is certainly headline grabbing. The reality is a bit more mundane, but the fact that these guys were able to find jobs in the prison industry is troubling - as is the fact that they can't seem to get rid of them when they do wrong (looks like the prison equivalent to the teachers' rubber rooms).
| 671 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:24:32am |
re: #630 Decatur Deb
The "Stripper Rap" campaign video didn't cut it--Hahn won in CA.
Bowen Huey spent $900K of his own money on that race. Meg Whitman spent $163 million on her failed bid. Combining narcissism with a gambling addiction is no way to go through life.
| 672 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:24:41am |
re: #669 laZardo
Whether from drug symptoms or the prison culture, those are still dead kids.
Yeah--includes suicides and stupid crap when they hit the street.
| 674 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:29:37am |
re: #666 Decatur Deb
It's a youth lock-up, 9-18 yr olds. She has a couple rapists and murderers a year, but mostly druggies. In the upper left corner of her blackboard she keeps a running number of her students who are dead--11 in 3 years when last I heard.
Wait, there are 9-year-olds in kiddie jail?
| 675 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:30:28am |
| 677 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:31:19am |
re: #674 Alouette
Wait, there are 9-year-olds in kiddie jail?
Attempted murder--grandmother. Usually she keeps a personal policy of not knowing the charges, but he was a safety exception.
| 678 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:33:05am |
re: #673 darthstar
Dear god! Are the ducklings okay?
hmmm,, reminds me
Haven't had Cornish Hens in awhile
Think I'll go done to the butcher shop today and get a few for dinner
| 679 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:33:38am |
re: #670 lawhawk
The NY Post and other local outlets were making hay about the MTA average salary of $70k or so in the past day and that it's a bit up from last year. What was left out is that the increase was due in part to contractual obligations with the union for salary increases (following a strike a few years back) and that the actual workforce shrank by a couple thousand (reducing the overall costs by several million dollars in the process).
So, those who are still working are making a bit more, the MTA is paying more for compensation, but it would have been much higher had the MTA not fired several thousand workers and not gotten the deal on raises.
| 680 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:33:45am |
Did ya'll see the story about Michael Irvin on Out Magazine?
Absolutely awesome and a huge step forward.
[Link: www.out.com...]
NFL Hall of famer Michael Irvin talks for the first time about his gay brother and explains why he’s on a pro-gay mission from God.
| 681 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:33:55am |
re: #677 Decatur Deb
Attempted murder--grandmother. Usually she keeps a personal policy of not knowing the charges, but he was a safety exception.
because 9 year olds will cut a bitch up!
/
All seriousness though, that is just tragic. I hope that child can be helped.
/I was going to say "all kidding aside", but that just didn't seem right...
| 682 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:33:55am |
re: #670 lawhawk
The reporters are combining multiple years of pay if they had back pay actually compensated in the year - so it boosts their one-year salary far and above their actual base pay.
In those other years, the salary for these guys were zeroed out by the DOC while fighting to get these guys booted.
So it makes it look like the pay is well out of scale and is certainly headline grabbing. The reality is a bit more mundane, but the fact that these guys were able to find jobs in the prison industry is troubling - as is the fact that they can't seem to get rid of them when they do wrong (looks like the prison equivalent to the teachers' rubber rooms).
Any idea if state employed doctors have to carry their own malpractice ins or is that covered by the state?
| 683 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:34:43am |
re: #678 sattv4u2
hmmm,, reminds me
Haven't had Cornish Hens in awhile
Think I'll go done to the butcher shop today and get a few for dinner
My favorite way: Crab meat stuffing. Get the real crab meat. You will die, especially if you make a gravy.
| 684 |
makeitstop Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:35:30am |
Morning, Honcos!
So... Where are we going with the debt ceiling sitcom today? I'll take a double order of schadenfreude, please. I want more of this:
Since pulling the plug on the deal, Boehner has been largely silent in the meetings, leaving House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) to present details of the House’s position. On Tuesday, people in both parties said, Obama tried to reestablish Boehner’s primacy.
Cantor, who is advocating a smaller deal, at one point demanded that Obama offer the details of his vision for a “grand bargain.”
“Where’s your paper?” he asked angrily.
Obama snapped back: “Frankly, your speaker has it. Am I dealing with him, or am I dealing with you?”
My only regret is that Obama didn't add 'You miserable, ambition-driven twerp' to the end of the question. Can't have everything.
| 685 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:35:46am |
re: #683 Stanley Sea
My favorite way: Crab meat stuffing. Get the real crab meat. You will die, especially if you make a gravy.
I prefer this to not be my "last meal"
((keeping with the prison theme here)
| 686 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:41:38am |
re: #684 makeitstop
"Obama snapped back: “Frankly, your speaker has it. Am I dealing with him, or am I dealing with you?”"
Indeed.
The Republican leadership made much ado about the President having to be directly involved - well, he's involved. Where are their principles then?
| 687 |
laZardo Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:42:44am |
re: #684 makeitstop
My only regret is that Obama didn't add 'You miserable, ambition-driven twerp' to the end of the question. Can't have everything.
You're putting it mildly, aren't you. ;)
| 688 |
Obdicut Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:44:27am |
re: #686 Ericus58
They're in disarray, with a lot of infighting, and their radical base is mutinying.
As much as I'd love to enjoy it, I'm worried that their leadership is going to be so paralyzed and ineffective that nothing will pass, not as part of their grand plan but sheer incompetence and lunacy.
| 690 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:46:16am |
re: #599 Killgore Trout
Considering that the News Corp HQ is in NYC, as is the WSJ and NY Post, it would be NYC prosecutors who would be jumping ugly - and given the way that Manhattan DA Cyrus Vance has handled a couple of high profile cases as poorly as he did, he might move against Fox to restore his image. The federal prosecutors in NY (SDNY) might also jump on the case. GOPers might try to block those efforts, but those prosecutors aren't likely to be stopped just because the GOP wishes it to stop.
| 691 |
makeitstop Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:46:55am |
re: #687 laZardo
You're putting it mildly, aren't you. ;)
Yeah. What I really wanted to call him isn't really fit for mixed company. :)
| 692 |
Lidane Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:47:27am |
Obama snapped back: “Frankly, your speaker has it. Am I dealing with him, or am I dealing with you?”
I bet Cantor loved that. Heh.
| 693 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:47:35am |
| 694 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:52:10am |
re: #690 lawhawk
Considering that the News Corp HQ is in NYC, as is the WSJ and NY Post, it would be NYC prosecutors who would be jumping ugly - and given the way that Manhattan DA Cyrus Vance has handled a couple of high profile cases as poorly as he did, he might move against Fox to restore his image. The federal prosecutors in NY (SDNY) might also jump on the case. GOPers might try to block those efforts, but those prosecutors aren't likely to be stopped just because the GOP wishes it to stop.
I was just reading that the Brits are calling for an investigation of the American parent company....
U.K. Lawmakers Say Murdoch Must Do More to Atone for Hacking
Bryant said he will write to News Corp non-executive directors in the U.S. to ask what they have done to investigate the allegations of wrongdoing.“News Corp in the U.S. is the parent company and that is where it’s fiduciary duty lies,” Bryant said. “I will be asking non-executive directors precisely what they did to investigate allegations.” Failure to demonstrate that they took steps should lead them to “withdraw from media ownership in the U.K.”
It's looking quite possible that this may force American authorities to act. The GOP may not be able to help.
| 695 |
Lidane Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:52:13am |
re: #688 Obdicut
They're in disarray, with a lot of infighting, and their radical base is mutinying.
As much as I'd love to enjoy it, I'm worried that their leadership is going to be so paralyzed and ineffective that nothing will pass, not as part of their grand plan but sheer incompetence and lunacy.
At this point, I think Boehner and McConnell are just wanting something -- anything -- to pass just to avoid a default, political consequences be damned. They might talk a big game, but their recent actions suggest they just want something to pass.
| 696 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:54:07am |
re: #690 lawhawk
However, the fact that the Brits are investigating the matter means that the US might defer any prosecutions to them, even on the FCPA unless they deem that the British prosecutions aren't sufficient or cover actions within the US sufficiently. Sen. Lautenberg (D-NJ) has requested that AG Holder look at whether News Corp violated the FCPA, but it doesn't appear likely that action will be taken at that level.
| 697 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:54:10am |
re: #695 Lidane
At this point, I think Boehner and McConnell are just wanting something -- anything -- to pass just to avoid a default, political consequences be damned. They might talk a big game, but their recent actions suggest they just want something to pass.
They are looking pretty desperate at this point. They don't have much leverage and everybody knows it.
| 698 |
Daniel Ballard Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:54:30am |
re: #688 Obdicut
Agreed. We may see the real consequences for incompetence on that scale. Heh, I thought my best argument against mikiesmoky2 (email not here) about s/s being threatened by default was that the consequences on the ground were so unpredictable that the checks might not go out even if the money was still there. I am genuinely concerned there will be a default at the hands of the GOP.
Look at the article behind this Page. Scary stuff.
| 699 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:56:14am |
re: #678 sattv4u2
hmmm,, reminds me
Haven't had Cornish Hens in awhile
Think I'll go done to the butcher shop today and get a few for dinner
I bought a Cornish Hen a month or so ago (used to eat them all the time in college as they're good one-person meals). I butterflied it (cut with scissors down each side of the backbone, snip the cartilage above the breast, then pop the breast bone out) then barbecued it...it's a nice way to go.
| 700 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:57:42am |
re: #695 Lidane
The debt ceiling is based entirely on what Congress determined for spending in past years. These are amounts previously agreed to - spending and revenues.
To consider a default shows just how ridiculous the entire situation is. Congress abdicates its responsibilities for the deficit over trying to shift the blame on Obama, when it is Congress that initiates the budget (that pesky Constitution thingy).
Want to fix the situation, make sure that future budgets are sound, and work towards reducing the deficit. Playing games on the debt ceiling only shows just how utterly absent of ideas the GOP is on budgetary issues and can't even claim conservative economic doctrine in the process. They've abdicated on that front, because they'd know that if the country defaults, it means higher costs for everything and everyone.
| 701 |
Lidane Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:58:20am |
re: #697 Killgore Trout
They are looking pretty desperate at this point. They don't have much leverage and everybody knows it.
When the Chamber of Commerce is openly telling them to STFU and get on with making a deal, any leverage they had is gone. It's all about the infighting among the House GOP leadership now.
| 702 |
makeitstop Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:58:48am |
re: #695 Lidane
At this point, I think Boehner and McConnell are just wanting something -- anything -- to pass just to avoid a default, political consequences be damned. They might talk a big game, but their recent actions suggest they just want something to pass.
Yep. They got leaned on, hard, by the Wall St. community, I'm thinking.
As much as a default would harm every American, the GOP money guys don't want to look at their bank balances on August 3 and discoover they're down a few million.
As much as I dislike both Boehner and McConnell, I'm hoping that one (or both) of them give a very public smackdown to Cantor in the coming days. That smarmy little bastard needs to be knocked down a peg or two.
| 704 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:59:02am |
Fitch Downgrades Greece Debt to CCC (Story Developing)
Moody's Downgrade Punishes Ireland: Wilbur Ross
"Moody's is punishing the wrong EU member by downgrading Ireland, Wilbur Ross Jr., CEO of WL Ross & Co., told CNBC Wednesday.
In a telephone interview, Ross called Ireland the "one country that really has taken the medicine" by making harsh cuts in federal capital expenditures and civil service personnel, among other costs, and the Moody's downgrade makes it harder for the nation to access the public market."
Does Italy Deserve Bond Vigilante Attack?
"Gold is surging, the euro zone is considering an emergency meeting and the bond vigilantes have a new target, Italy, in their sights.
Some ill-chosen words from Silvio Berlusconi about his finance minister and a warning from S&P have seen Italian bond yields soaring and investors across the globe beginning to fret over the world’s third biggest issuer of government debt."
The issue's involving the countries of the EU almost make our issue's trivial...
| 705 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 9:59:57am |
re: #695 Lidane
At this point, I think Boehner and McConnell are just wanting something -- anything -- to pass just to avoid a default, political consequences be damned. They might talk a big game, but their recent actions suggest they just want something to pass.
In the end, they know they can rely on the short-term memory of their base and that in a month this will be long forgotten by those who were mad at them. They just want to score political points while they can, because President Obama's approval stays pretty level around 50% and if he makes them look like the idiots they are (which is quite easy, apparently) then he pops back up to 56% and they have to work hard to get him back down.
| 707 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:03:03am |
re: #704 Ericus58
Fitch Downgrades Greece Debt to CCC (Story Developing)
| 708 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:03:20am |
re: #701 Lidane
When the Chamber of Commerce is openly telling them to STFU and get on with making a deal, any leverage they had is gone. It's all about the infighting among the House GOP leadership now.
It is kind of funny watching them all trying to pass the buck. They're all in a panic trying to not be the one to make a decision. It's a lot like the GOP presidential candidates. Almost none of them actually want to get the nomination.
| 709 |
lawhawk Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:06:44am |
re: #707 darthstar
Heh... so did I... and my name is not Quaid.
| 710 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:07:06am |
re: #701 Lidane
When the Chamber of Commerce is openly telling them to STFU and get on with making a deal, any leverage they had is gone. It's all about the infighting among the House GOP leadership now.
It's becoming painfully obvious that Cantor wants to stab Boehner in the back and take his job based on the posturing he does with President Obama...
The two-hour White House session, while described as constructive, offered no promise of any quick breakthrough. The coolness between Boehner and his perceived rival Cantor is palpable, and Obama sometimes seems to use this to his advantage.For example, the president and Cantor clashed again Tuesday, this time over the availability of paperwork on the administration’s savings proposals. Obama told Cantor, officials said, that he had shared information with the speaker and felt that was sharing with the House GOP. Boehner sat silently, just as he did Monday when the aggressive Cantor clashed with the president and Reid.
“Boehner has expressive body language,” said one Democratic official familiar with the talks. “He doesn’t always say anything.”
Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]
| 711 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:08:06am |
re: #709 lawhawk
Heh... so did I... and my name is not Quaid.
I get it. Not sure how many else will.
| 712 |
Kragar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:08:19am |
Rick Perry Prayer rally partner: Homosexuality is an Illuminati conspiracy.
the Illuminati intend to reduce the world population to just 500 million people and that, along with the recently passed health care reform law, the secretive group will use homosexuality as a “perverted way” to bring about “a death culture” and population control.
| 713 |
Ericus58 Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:08:20am |
re: #706 Stanley Sea
EAT YOUR PEAS!
That always makes me chuckle ;)
Early in our relationship, my wife and I had dinner at one of her brothers house with his wife - who made a wonderful dinner for us.
Very tasting casserole for everyone... except for me, just chocked full of peas. I gamely pressed on but by dinner's end and a sizable portion of the peas pushed off to the side of my plate, my wife remarked: "Don't you like peas?!"
Seeing the look on my BIL's wife's face, I took my fork and shoveled a big helping into my mouth.
"I always save the best part of the meal for last!" I mumbled, willing those nasty things down.
| 714 |
Only The Lurker Knows Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:10:57am |
re: #711 Cannadian Club Akbar
Just watched it again yesterday afternoon. Amazing how a face about ready to explode for decompression can suddenly return to normal after a miraculous infusion of o2 into a planet wide vacuum.
| 715 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:11:51am |
re: #710 darthstar
It's becoming painfully obvious that Cantor wants to stab Boehner in the back and take his job based on the posturing he does with President Obama...
Holy shit...just saw this on dKos...even Obama's trying to save Boehner's orange ass from his own party.
Since pulling the plug on the deal, Boehner has been largely silent in the meetings, leaving House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) to present details of the House’s position. On Tuesday, people in both parties said, Obama tried to reestablish Boehner’s primacy.Cantor, who is advocating a smaller deal, at one point demanded that Obama offer the details of his vision for a “grand bargain.”
“Where’s your paper?” he asked angrily.
Obama snapped back: “Frankly, your speaker has it. Am I dealing with him, or am I dealing with you?”
Bam! Fuck you, Number Two! Sit down, beeyotch!
| 716 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:11:58am |
re: #714 Bubblehead II
Just watched it again yesterday afternoon. Amazing how a face about ready to explode for decompression can suddenly return to normal after a miraculous infusion of o2 into a planet wide vacuum.
First time I saw it I was tripping on some REALLY GOOD acid. Perfect movie.
| 718 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:14:26am |
re: #717 lawhawk
Who does number two ... work for...
Cantor's number two. He works for the people of Virginia, who apparently find electing someone who looks like he bit into a turd to be an acceptable biannual activity.
| 719 |
Lidane Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:15:07am |
re: #715 darthstar
Holy shit...just saw this on dKos...even Obama's trying to save Boehner's orange ass from his own party.
Dear Mr. President,
More of that, please. Especially in public. I'd slug the little bastard if I could, but you slapping him down works too.
Sincerely,
John Boehner
| 720 |
Kragar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:16:07am |
Same Rick Perry Backer: Statue of Liberty is a Pagan Idol
Libertas is also called the Freedom Goddess, Lady Freedom, the Goddess of Liberty. You know there’s a statue in New York harbor called the Statue of Liberty. You know where we got it from? French Free Masons. Listen folks that is an idol, a demonic idol, right there in New York harbor. People say, ‘well no it’s patriotic.’ What makes it patriotic? Why is it? It’s a statue of a false goddess, the Queen of Heaven. We don’t get liberty from a false goddess folks, we get our liberty from Jesus Christ and that Statue of Liberty in no way glorifies Jesus Christ. There is no connection whatsoever. So I’m just telling you we practice idolatry in America in ways that we don’t even recognize.
| 721 |
Lidane Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:17:39am |
re: #720 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Why does being a religious nutjob inevitably lead to becoming a humorless, self-righteous twat?
More to the point, why does my asshole governor insist on showcasing these people? Ugh.
| 722 |
Sheila Broflovski Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:18:25am |
re: #720 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
"Statue of Liberty" in Hebrew is Pessel Cherut: The Graven Image of Freedom.
//
| 723 |
Only The Lurker Knows Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:20:09am |
re: #716 Cannadian Club Akbar
IIRC. It was also the first movie to make use of full body scanners as a security measure. Long before it was even thought possible.
/Something else to blame on Arnold
| 724 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:21:30am |
BBC: Israeli army kills man in Nablus, hits Gaza targets
The Israeli military said troops fired at a man who tried to evade arrest in the el-Fara camp north of Nablus.
But a witness said residents had thrown stones at the troops, who responded with live fire, killing 21-year-old university student Ibrahim Sarhan.
...
Omar Sarhan said his son was shot after attending morning prayers in a local mosque, and bled to death because no ambulance was allowed to attend to him.The 21-year-old had been shot twice, once in each thigh, and was dead by the time he reached hospital, Palestinian medics said.
Reality: Hamas operative killed in Nablus
IDF sources said that the incident took place during a raid in which the force identified a man trying to escape. The soldiers carried out the required suspect arrest protocol, which ended with shots being fired at the man's lower extremities. The injured man was evacuated and received medical care from local medics.
The IDF said that his condition remained unknown and further added that the incident was being looked into. The military noted that in the course of the routine arrests, explosives were thrown at the forces; no injuries were reported among the troops.
Shortly after noon, Hamas confirmed that Sarhan was one of their operatives. The statement was made on a website affiliated with Gaza's rulers.
| 725 |
ProGunLiberal Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:22:35am |
You know what pisses me off about Pakistan?
This terrorist attack will be used by the Radical Hindus to scapegoat Muslims in India. Muslims will die in the backlash.
Pakistan doesn't give a shit about Muslims. They care about their grudge more.
| 726 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:23:11am |
re: #724 Killgore Trout
I tried to explain this to deer when I was growing up...if you're running, you're guilty.
| 727 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:23:16am |
A victory for atheists worldwide...
Austrian driver's religious headgear strains credulity
An Austrian atheist has won the right to be shown on his driving-licence photo wearing a pasta strainer as "religious headgear"
| 728 |
Kragar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:23:54am |
re: #723 Bubblehead II
IIRC. It was also the first movie to make use of full body scanners as a security measure. Long before it was even thought possible.
/Something else to blame on Arnold
2 weeks.
| 729 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:24:01am |
re: #727 Killgore Trout
A victory for atheists worldwide...
Austrian driver's religious headgear strains credulity
Lol
| 730 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:24:37am |
re: #727 Killgore Trout
A victory for atheists worldwide...
Austrian driver's religious headgear strains credulity
That's fuckin' funny.
| 731 |
darthstar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:25:08am |
re: #727 Killgore Trout
A victory for atheists worldwide...
Austrian driver's religious headgear strains credulity
The flying spaghetti monster's followers are many. And now they're officially recognized. That's pretty cool.
| 732 |
reine.de.tout Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:26:01am |
re: #727 Killgore Trout
A victory for atheists worldwide...
Austrian driver's religious headgear strains credulity
haha! too funny.
| 733 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:26:47am |
re: #731 darthstar
The flying spaghetti monster's followers are many. And now they're officially recognized. That's pretty cool.
You think I could get away with wearing a beer volcano on my head???
| 734 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:27:32am |
re: #727 Killgore Trout
A victory for atheists worldwide...
Austrian driver's religious headgear strains credulity
I'll need to see you license, insurance, registration. And could you strain this capellini for me?
/
| 735 |
wrenchwench Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:27:44am |
re: #733 Varek Raith
You think I could get away with wearing a beer volcano on my head???
Sounds like an open bottle violation.
| 736 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:28:17am |
| 737 |
Varek Raith Wed, Jul 13, 2011 10:29:43am |
| 738 |
OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin Wed, Jul 13, 2011 11:00:10am |
re: #712 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Rick Perry Prayer rally partner: Homosexuality is an Illuminati conspiracy.
This creep is an "Apostle" from that "Apostolic Prayer Network" crowd. More C. Peter Wagner crap. [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Otherwise, he sounds no different from Professional Bullshitter Alex Jones.
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