There was a desert wind blowing that night. It was one of those hot dry Santa Anas that come down through the mountain passes and curl your hair and make your nerves jump and your skin itch. On nights like that every booze party ends in a fight. Meek little wives feel the edge of the carving knife and study their husbands’ necks. Anything can happen. You can even get a full glass of beer at a cocktail lounge.
— Raymond Chandler
1 |
laZardo Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:35:24pm |
There was a desert wind blowing that night. It was one of those hot dry Santa Anas that come down through the mountain passes and curl your hair and make your nerves jump and your skin itch. On nights like that every booze party ends in a fight. Meek little wives feel the edge of the carving knife and study their husbands’ necks. Anything can happen. You can even get a full glass of beer at a cocktail lounge.
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas? >_>
| 2 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:37:56pm |
For the nostalgic, and those who long for the simpler, better times of decades past…
… things are only getting worse for America, right?
/If only we could turn back time…
| 3 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:41:15pm |
| 4 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:42:14pm |
| 5 |
freetoken Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:42:35pm |
re: #1 laZardo
Those nasty Santa Anas… very bad for those who live in the canyons. I remember once the temperature jumped almost 60F in the morning, before noon. Thought my poor orchids were going to perish.
| 6 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:44:38pm |
re: #2 Slumbering Behemoth
And honestly, I am jealous of kids in school today. They are learning factual, real world applications that were only dreamed of in my day, stuff that was once considered science fiction, while my generation was learning various dead languages.
| 7 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:45:19pm |
re: #3 SanFranciscoZionist
Holy carp, you can read?
/
| 8 |
laZardo Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:45:22pm |
re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth
And honestly, I am jealous of kids in school today. They are learning factual, real world applications that were only dreamed of in my day, stuff that was once considered science fiction, while my generation was learning various dead languages.
Paging Cato…
| 9 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:48:23pm |
re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist
Look what those violent, extreme unions have done. You hardly ever see a twelve year old kid smoking, drinking, gambling, or screwing hookers today like you would in the great America of yester-year.
/DECLINE!
| 11 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:50:40pm |
re: #5 freetoken
Those nasty Santa Anas… very bad for those who live in the canyons. I remember once the temperature jumped almost 60F in the morning, before noon. Thought my poor orchids were going to perish.
“Lovers who kill each other now will blame it on the wind.”
| 12 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:51:21pm |
re: #7 Slumbering Behemoth
Holy carp, you can read?
/
LOL. I didn’t even see the attribution!
So, apparently NO.
| 13 |
Eclectic Infidel Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:51:41pm |
re: #1 laZardo
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas? >_>
Detective story reference I think. My dad used to read that genre when I was a kid. I vaguely remember the author. Now I find myself interested in that genre as a break from reading history and politics (like he does almost exclusively now).
| 14 |
Eclectic Infidel Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:56:04pm |
I’m gonna watch me a Netflix movie and then call it a night.
Be well, fellow lizards.
| 15 |
Stanley Sea Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:56:15pm |
re: #10 Stanley Sea
Santa Anas - the ions go a bit crazy.
Made myself laugh remembering Sarah Palin’s twitter about how the earth has been warming for ions.
| 16 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:56:22pm |
re: #14 eclectic infidel
I’m gonna watch me a Netflix movie and then call it a night.
Be well, fellow lizards.
Night.
| 17 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:56:39pm |
re: #15 Stanley Sea
Made myself laugh remembering Sarah Palin’s twitter about how the earth has been warming for ions.
Warming For Ions is a good band name.
| 18 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Apr 1, 2010 10:56:59pm |
re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist
Warming For Ions is a good band name.
And politicians need to stop Twittering. This is not a good political forum.
| 19 |
Stanley Sea Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:00:33pm |
re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist
And politicians need to stop Twittering. This is not a good political forum.
Especially if you have Palin syntax.
| 20 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:00:53pm |
Awww, the image of innocent youth. Children borne of a grander time who have never suffered the horrific influence of Hollywood films, violent video games, pornographic television, nor the satanic evils of popular music.
Life was so much better for children then, I long for the good olde days.
/Life is so much worse now.
| 21 |
Stanley Sea Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:04:01pm |
Here is a really cool part of Talking Points Memo I found
It has the twitter feed of
Hill Democrats
Hill Republicans
Democratic Insiders
Republican Insiders
Media & Bloggers
It’s a running feed of these folks’ (however they decide) twitter.
I tend to look @ the media & pundits. probably my problem.
| 22 |
Stanley Sea Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:05:42pm |
I go to the link & Pat Buchanan is the first 3 tweets.
dang.
| 23 |
Gus Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:08:24pm |
Finally had to Google this Jesse James dimwit to figure out who he was. Frankly, still don’t can’t put my finger on him. Never heard of the creep. I only remember seeing a few of those chopper shows on the Discovery Channel and being completely turned off by the fake machismo. Apparently he’s wealthy and successful but still a loser and Sandra Bullock confirms once again that she’s an airhead.
| 24 |
Irenicum Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:13:38pm |
re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist
No! Don’t stop them! (at least the ones I don’t like ;))
| 25 |
freetoken Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:14:34pm |
re: #23 Gus 802
I never heard of him either.
Guess we’re just getting old. I have no desire to keep up with current celebrities.
| 26 |
freetoken Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:19:50pm |
| 28 |
Gus Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:20:08pm |
re: #25 freetoken
I never heard of him either.
Guess we’re just getting old. I have no desire to keep up with current celebrities.
Yeah, it’s hard to keep up with all of these third rate cable stars especially when they surface onto the news regarding some divorce or drinking and pill popping problem.
Part of it might be getting old but it’s the growth of cable that has to do with it. And the new genre of talentless celebrities that don’t do anything like the Kardashians.
It’s an outgrowth of the reality TV disease. You don’t need any talent. Just have to be 5’-10” with tattoos, some piercings and be reasonably good looking.
People will watch anything as long as it makes them feel bad about themselves and feel the urge to buy something to fix that.
| 29 |
tnguitarist Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:20:41pm |
re: #19 Stanley Sea
Especially if you have Palin syntax.
Actually, I think it helps hide some of her idiocy.
| 30 |
freetoken Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:23:18pm |
| 31 |
Gus Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:23:46pm |
re: #26 freetoken
Indeed, when I think of “James” in regards to pop-music, the only name I associate with that surname is “Harry”:
[Video]
Or Alias Jesse James starring Bob Hope. Although I’m not that old. Still, would rather watch Bob Hope 7 days a week then even one hour of this Jesse James.
| 32 |
Gus Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:25:46pm |
| 35 |
Lidane Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:45:49pm |
*sigh*
Nirther idiocy at its finest:
Army Officer Joins Birthers, Defies Orders
Lt. Col. Terry Lakin, an Army physician, has refused to obey any orders from his commanding officers — including President Obama — until Obama produces his birth certificate.
“Any reasonable person looking critically at the evidence currently in the public domain would have questions about President Obama’s claim to be a natural born citizen,” Lakin says in the below video released the right-wing American Patriot Foundation. “I will disobey my orders to deploy [to Afghanistan] because I, and I believe all servicemen and women and the American people, deserve the truth about President Obama’s constitutional eligibility to the office of the presidency and the commander in chief.”
Lakin says this marks the first time during his 18 years in the Army that he has chosen to disobey “what I believe are illegal orders.” Evidently he didn’t feel the need to personally verify the citizenship of his three previous commanders-in-chief.
| 36 |
Eclectic Infidel Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:47:01pm |
Ok, ok. Movie break. Did some email. Found a new header worth mentioning:
Israel Mounts Air Attacks in Gaza
JERUSALEM — Israeli warplanes struck at least four times across Gaza on Friday, causing no injuries but damaging a number of structures that the Israeli military said were sites for weapons manufacturing or storage.A military spokesman said the strikes were in response to a Qassam rocket fired from Gaza on Thursday that hit the Ashkelon area on Israel’s central coast. The spokesman added that nearly 20 rockets or mortars had come from Gaza during the month of March, and more than 40 since the beginning of the year.
| 37 |
Tiny alien kittens are watching you Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:48:18pm |
re: #2 Slumbering Behemoth
For the nostalgic, and those who long for the simpler, better times of decades past…
… things are only getting worse for America, right?
/If only we could turn back time…
Why is it that every time I go to Rapture Ready all I see are posts about how horrible, violent, and sinful the world has become and how surely Jesus is coming to Rapture his flock any second now? They say this is because things simply cannot get any worse without the world breaking down into complete and utter anarchy.
I suppose this is because if you have no grasp or knowledge of world history whatsoever, even of the last 60 years, then things might seem horribly bad to you?
I recently saw a study that said the last three decades have been the least violent time in all of recorded human history to date. Depending on where and at what time you lived a european male stood as much as a 68% chance of dieing by violence rather than old age.
It would seem empirically that things are finally getting better, not worse…
| 38 |
Lidane Thu, Apr 1, 2010 11:59:52pm |
Also, the Dems are using Biden’s health care F-bomb as a fundraiser. Heh.
And on that note, it’s time for bed. Night Lizards! :)
| 39 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:03:09am |
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction… and sometimes wingnut paranoia isn’t all that paranoid…
Obama Signs Law To Limit Type, Number Of Firearms Per Home
In an historic move to expand gun control legislation, President Barack Obama has signed a bill to impose unprecedented limitations on privately owned firearms.
[SNIP]Hand gun enthusiasts will not be alone in their outrage at the passage of this bill. Though the bill bans all private ownership of hand guns, it also severely limits the types and number of rifles (including shotguns) to one per household, and the amount ammunition to thirty-three rounds per household. Gunsmithing equipment will also be strictly regulated and registered under the new law.
[SNIP]Attorney General Eric Holder stated that this new legislation will be “implemented by local authorities” at first, then followed up by a new “dedicated, federal task force” in the coming months.
| 40 |
windsagio Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:05:45am |
re: #39 Slumbering Behemoth
You need to learn to use tinyurl or something >>
| 41 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:07:38am |
re: #40 windsagio
Or something. Don’t *spoiler* it, let it be.
| 42 |
sngnsgt Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:07:52am |
re: #39 Slumbering Behemoth
They are going to ‘change’ the Constitution too then right?
| 43 |
Tiny alien kittens are watching you Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:10:54am |
| 44 |
Tiny alien kittens are watching you Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:15:25am |
re: #39 Slumbering Behemoth
Please don’t feed the paranoid trolls…they are bad enough without humoring them. :p
| 45 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:21:44am |
re: #37 ausador
There must be some kind of psychiatric designation for that type of nostalgia, but I don’t know what it is.
It is easy to think that what we experience in our youth is indicative of a “simpler time”, rather than being indicative of our “simpler minds”.
I was born in the ’70s, grew to puberty in the ’80s, and knew little of the world’s evils. Murder, rape, molestation, genocide… political intrigue, assassination, corporate malfeasance, concepts unknown to me in my naive youth became news to me as I grew more aware. New things in my experience, but ancient as dust to the world at large.
Those who call in lament for simpler times, are not calling back to a true time in history. They are calling for a return to the blissful ignorance of their youth.
| 46 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:28:23am |
re: #43 ausador
Delightfully elitist of you.
Couldn’t help but catch the references to John Wayne. Well, guess who shows up in the background of Tom Tancredo’s new video this week?
| 47 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:31:11am |
re: #42 sngnsgt
They’ve found a procedural loop-hole. It’s a “legal bomb” which basically invalidates the Bill of Rights entirely. The frightening thing is that this was built into the constitution by our very Fore Fathers.
Here is the original text, read it and weep for our nation.
| 48 |
windsagio Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:33:15am |
re: #41 Slumbering Behemoth
I’m very good at being vague :p
| 49 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:39:25am |
More evidence of Obama’s plan to use the Census to bring the US under Muslim rule:
/just warming up for the morning crowd…
| 50 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:40:41am |
Sooo… What’re y’all doin’ fer Easter?
I plan on telling the kids the story about the Goldfish that leaves Lincoln Logs in your sock drawer…
| 51 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:45:31am |
re: #50 Slumbering Behemoth
Well, I’ll be at the gym, like on most Sundays. It’s a way to avoid the crowds.
| 52 |
Tiny alien kittens are watching you Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:53:37am |
re: #47 Slumbering Behemoth
He is just happy because he finally made it to the front of the line waiting to receive toilet paper from the communal commissariat.
/
| 53 |
Pamela Gellar [sic(k)] Fri, Apr 2, 2010 12:55:51am |
Wheee! Raymond Chandler! One of my faves.
re: #50 Slumbering Behemoth
Sooo… What’re y’all doin’ fer Easter?
Cookin’!
Appy-lolly-polly-gees for our absence. That would be Clockwork Orange speak, oh yes my droogs. I blame my malchick Jimmah.
The Scot who Loved Me:
Oh yeah.
| 54 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:00:02am |
WSJ gets some manwoman-on-the-street reactions to the iPad:
| 55 |
Pamela Gellar [sic(k)] Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:00:03am |
What happened to the poster I Am Smarter Than You?
I want to discuss the penis imagery in this video, and also her dissertation on the phallic oppression of mathematics and shape-rape!
| 56 |
Jimmah Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:17:42am |
re: #55 iceweasel
What happened to the poster I Am Smarter Than You?
I want to discuss the penis imagery in this video, and also her dissertation on the phallic oppression of mathematics and shape-rape!
I’m off to plunder iceweasel’s polygons, get rhythmic with her rhomboids, and sexxx up her septagons :D
Happy Easter everybody - Christ is not only one who is risen!
| 57 |
Tiny alien kittens are watching you Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:18:34am |
re: #55 iceweasel
What happened to the poster I Am Smarter Than You?
I want to discuss the penis imagery in this video, and also her dissertation on the phallic oppression of mathematics and shape-rape!
Bah, one can never really be certain of anything once the observational divergence is factored into the equation. Simply by being physically present to witness any event you alter it, Schrodinger’s equation established that.
/one handed clapping that makes no sound, or does it?
| 58 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:27:04am |
Meanwhile, behind the façade of this innocent-looking bookstore…
| 59 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:32:09am |
re: #35 Lidane
it’s amazing how people will throw their career away over teh crazee!
| 60 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:33:31am |
re: #51 freetoken
Well, I’ll be at the gym, like on most Sundays. It’s a way to avoid the crowds.
Honestly curious, brother. What sort of things do you go on about at the gym? Exercises, goals, targeted areas, etc.?
Any tips for someone like me who has slacked off, gained much weight since his hernia surgery, and is looking to tackle an exercise routine again?
| 61 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:33:40am |
| 62 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:44:13am |
| 63 |
windsagio Fri, Apr 2, 2010 1:44:20am |
I’m working extra, which is also kinda a tradition.
In other news, I want random advice. I’ve been messing with the new version of my dwarf game, and I have 2 choices for a cool fortress:
1) Giant tower of rock in a lake made by the meeting of 4 rivers.
2) Enormous underground lake cave, making rooms out of the various islands on the lake.
| 64 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:01:28am |
re: #60 Slumbering Behemoth
Normally I just go to check out the college girls get all hot and sweaty… (no, I won’t exploit Charles’ wonderful new picture embedding here…)
Other than that… over the years I have had interests in body building (though that faded quickly), exercise (did some personal training), and dance and movement studies. Anyway, over the years I’ve cycled through periods of struggling with weight (grew up a “big” boy, as the euphemism goes…) as well as various physical challenges of which I won’t go into detail here but has taught me quite a bit about the need to understand my own anatomy.
Since coming back from Japan I’ve let myself add about 20 lbs (at my peak I used to do over 40 hours of exercising a week, alas I stopped that a few years ago) … so now I’ve put myself on a regimen to get rid of them. Each pound of fat represents about 3500 kCal (that is food calories), so 20 lbs turns out to be about 70,000 food calories.
Roughly 1/3 of my gym time is spent doing heavy lifts (for strength and function), about 1/3 on lighter exercises (for function and alignment), and about 1/3 on floor exercises (for alignment and core strength.) I’ll lose the 20 lbs by cutting back on my eating and doing a bit more exercises, probably adding about 5 hours/week. It’ll take me several months at my age. With chemicals it would go faster and I am old enough now to get a Dr. to legit write me a testosterone script, but I like the fact I still have hair so I will skip the easy route.
For you:
Bottom line: there is no magic.
Bottom line #2: what is between your ears is most important.
Bottom line #3: Being there trumps theory/talk.
For middle-age males the key issue is usually diet. The problem is that we use food as both a means of social interaction, bonding, as well as self medication. Being willing to change one’s eating habits - and that does not mean just the menu, but the true habit: the places, times, company, etc. is important.
From there it is also important to remember that our skeletal muscles serve two important functions: storehouse of amino acids, and for providing locomotion. Any male with functioning gonads can add muscle much more easily than a female. Muscles consume energy not just doing formal exercises but in everyday use. So the more muscle you have the more calories you will burn.
I’d have to see you in person to know what to recommend as for exercises, and while it is often just a sales pitch line by personal trainers, still, your “goal” is important.
So all I can do here is recommend that you pick 3 things, that is, physical activities - can be a sport, a dance, a martial art, hiking, - anything that gets you moving your body with your legs. Try to do each activity twice a week. That makes 2x3 outings, which will give you a day of rest. The step up in activity alone will make a difference.
For the surgery - strengthening the wall of the abdomen would be a good goal. I recommend floor exercises. That means a flat floor, not a bench. Learn proper ways to do crunches, avoiding using your hands to pull on anything. You have essentially three layers of “abs”, and the two most important are not what become the “six pak”.
Well, I could go on and on… but remember three things:
Diet - change of habits;
Activities - 6 days a week do something that moves your body;
Core - work crunches on the floor, don’t pull on your head!
/that’ll be $75 …
| 65 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:13:43am |
A SPECIAL EASTER MESSAGE for A GOD-FEARING COUNTRY…
In the highways and hedges, muthafukah!
| 66 |
Gus Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:42:52am |
re: #65 Slumbering Behemoth
A SPECIAL EASTER MESSAGE for A GOD-FEARING COUNTRY…
In the highways and hedges, muthafukah!
Happy Good Friday Slumbering Behemoth. Here’s some more Faux News fun!
Atheists attacked by idiot bigots on Faux News
Circa 2008.
| 67 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:48:24am |
re: #64 freetoken
/that’ll be $75 …
If I had it to give, I’d give you at least $40. All great advice, much I already know. Still in all, thanks for taking the time for that response. It will be read by more folks than just me.
I’d have to see you in person to know what to recommend as for exercises, and while it is often just a sales pitch line by personal trainers, still, your “goal” is important.
Right now I am about 5’9” and 230#. Beer gut. At my age, I need to ease back into the routine. I am thinking of easing back in with simple stuff (walking, bike riding) before I get back into weights is the best plan.
I was just wondering if you knew of any particular exercises a dude like me should start with. I am always looking for the knowledge of others on this topic. Always.
Bottom line: there is no magic.
Never has been, never will be. Sweat and effort are the only keys.
Anyhow, I should have mentioned before that I come from a background of “extremely novice” weight lifting. As I have learned, working the legs are important to building your core. With my hereditary predisposition towards hernias, weighted squats, lunges, and the like are now off the table for me. Do you have any recommendations for exercises that could fill in those gaps?
Again, thank you very much for your lengthy response. It is now “hearted” and much appreciated. I mean that truthfully, and without sarcasm.
| 68 |
Gus Fri, Apr 2, 2010 2:54:33am |
| 69 |
Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:03:36am |
re: #66 Gus 802
It is not enough to just live in one’s faith and live one’s faith (or lack thereof) in quiet dignity, one has to get right up in everyone’s face with it.
A great American tradition dating back to the days of the Puritan settlers.
| 70 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:13:41am |
re: #67 Slumbering Behemoth
Working legs - that depends again on your physical abilities. As you noted, hernias can be a contraindication for some types of exercises.
For Americans the big challenge (it seems) is to get out of their automobiles. Walking, or bicycling (if you’re up for it, though I personally do not like it), to and from your daily activities will help. Proper walking is rare for Americans - I observe and have done so for years. Make sure any foot problems are addressed if needed. Get a good pair of shoes. Then decide that you will walk anywhere possible, and not drive. Walk looking forward (not down constantly), and your ankles should be almost brushing each other as they pass, toes pointed forward. Along the path add areas of different elevations so you have to walk up and down.
The difference between this and this is not so much genetics but that the former sits all day and then uses automation to go anywhere, while the latter obviously bikes and walks.
Walking downhill will work the front of your legs a bit more, while going up stairs will work the butt.
The other thing to do right away is learn how to do floor exercises for the absdominals. Proper crunch technique is to lay on the floor, knees raised a bit so the soles of the feet are flat on the floor. Many images online will show people pulling on their heads - don’t do that. Putting your hands behind your head is fine, but they should barely touch the back of your head. Curl the upper body slightly off the floor while trying to pull the belly button down into the floor. Notice how this trainer is touching the abs - that is to provide proprioceptive feedback to the client so the client can be aware he ought to be thinking about his abs, and that they should be trying to pull backwards toward the spine. Afterwards stretch out on the floor, trying to lengthen your body.
As I mentioned, I could write you volumes but I’d need to know more about you. Most people are very shy about really dealing with this subject. Young guys tend to be arrogant, old guys unteachable, and women just full of crazy ideas (I think they get them from those magazines I see at the check-out lines.)
I’ve watched thousands of people at gym over the past 25 years or so and there are definite patterns that emerge. I know first hand how very hard it can be to overcome issues (weight, alignment, balance, etc.) It takes heart, frankly, more than anything else.
| 71 |
Gus Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:14:23am |
re: #69 ralphieboy
It is not enough to just live in one’s faith and live one’s faith (or lack thereof) in quiet dignity, one has to get right up in everyone’s face with it.
A great American tradition dating back to the days of the Puritan settlers.
True. It’s a matter of evangelizing which can occur with many religions and at times with non-religion. However, they latter is rare and often marginalized.
In fairness I watched another video from a Fox affiliate regarding another atheist billboard and they asked this Christian contractor (the type that has signs on his truck) and he said about the sign “I love it.” He added the usual caveat about hoping that atheists “find their way” but I appreciated the fact that he still held some respect for the secular-rational aspect of the 1st Amendment.
I suppose that’s the bottom line. That we tolerate one another regarding matters of faith or non-faith.
| 72 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:15:05am |
re: #68 Gus 802
I’ve seen many vids from that dude before, and he never disappoints. In that, I mean he never strays from the format of behaving like a giant, bloviating, (pardon me ladies) blubbering vagina.
He does touch on many important points, but he does so in a way that is not unlike Bill O’Reilly.
| 73 |
Gus Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:18:50am |
re: #72 Slumbering Behemoth
I’ve seen many vids from that dude before, and he never disappoints. In that, I mean he never strays from the format of behaving like a giant, bloviating, (pardon me ladies) blubbering vagina.
He does touch on many important points, but he does so in a way that is not unlike Bill O’Reilly.
I know what you mean. Just had this urge to post that video since I think it makes some very good points. I’ve listened to him on and off for the past two years. He hits and misses but I keep in mind that he’s just a young man. He has potential and isn’t for everyone.
| 74 |
Gus Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:23:57am |
In other news…
Saudis ‘give Lebanese sorcerer stay of execution’
A Lebanese man sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia for sorcery has been given a temporary reprieve, his lawyer says.
Ali Sabat’s execution was scheduled for Friday but his lawyer, May el-Khansa, told the BBC she had been assured by a Lebanese minister it would not happen…
| 75 |
stayfrosty Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:26:55am |
Charles,
Don’t know if you’ve noticed it or if it’s been mentioned, but I just noticed your were included in a Daily Beast article about “The Top 25 Centrist Columnists and Commentators” by John Avlon.
| 77 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:34:09am |
re: #70 freetoken
Thank you again, brother, for taking such time to answer my questions.
Young guys tend to be arrogant, old guys unteachable
I guess I exist somewhere in the middle. Not so young as to be arrogant, and not so old as to be unteachable. Honestly, on this subject, I value any and all information that I can acquire. I would take instruction from those twenty years my junior, or twenty years my elder. The source does not concern me nearly as much as the value of the instruction.
Thank you again for your response.
| 78 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:40:37am |
re: #77 Slumbering Behemoth
No problem. Wish I could do more… but for now it’s up to you to work out how much time to put into this.
Do work the torso, though. That is why I mentioned crunches. However, for you be sure to stay away from any floor exercise that involves leg raises until you get comfortable doing simple crunches. Also recommend you stay away from the yoga-ific type of stuff.
By any and all means, replace the automobile with your feet. Replace elevators with stairs, etc.
| 79 |
Gus Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:41:24am |
Olivia de Havilland celebrated her 93rd birthday on March 19th. Her movie debut was in 1935.
Hollywood’s sweetheart: Olivia de Havilland
Olivia de Havilland, a star of Hollywood’s golden age, lives in Paris in a tall townhouse near the Bois de Boulogne. It is snowing when I arrive and I am so cold I can barely speak. The maid shows me into a drawing room where, outlined against a blazing fire, Miss de Havilland stands with welcoming arms outstretched. She is small in stature but her charm is enormous, overwhelming. It is exactly like being greeted by the character she created, Melanie in Gone With the Wind, as she takes my fur hat and clasps it to her bosom. ‘What a hat,’ she says, adding in a low voice resonant with sincerity, ‘It must be a great comfort to you.’
| 80 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:51:02am |
re: #78 freetoken
Thanks again, Freetoken. Your advice went way beyond what I asked for, and I appreciate that, as well as your time spent on the subject.
G’nite bro. Much appreciated.
| 81 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:56:16am |
Good morning LGF
I wonder if anyone else will see red when they read this story:
jpost.com
| 82 |
RogueOne Fri, Apr 2, 2010 3:59:16am |
re: #67 Slumbering Behemoth
You didn’t mention your age or your goal. Are you trying to slim down or build muscle?
| 83 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:02:16am |
re: #81 Spare O’Lake
Not red… just yellow, for the roses. Honestly, I think the whole idea was a silly stunt by that woman in FL.
| 85 |
RogueOne Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:03:39am |
Frum is on Morning Joe talking about his Waterloo piece. He just said he would have voted no on the final bill. Now I’m really confused.
| 86 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:05:42am |
re: #85 RogueOne
I read your reply about the dogs yesterday but way to late to respond.
I should get some pictures up on the web in the next few weeks. I’ll let you know when I do.
| 87 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:09:10am |
Something Odd for the Arctic:
“Normal” Sea Ice Extent as Winter Ends
As the winter freeze ends, there’s more ice in the Arctic than at any time in recent years. Is this another PR problem for global warming activists?
Only two months ago, it looked as if the Arctic sea ice extent was trending so far below normal that it might set a new record. The extent of Arctic sea ice, a barometer on global warming and one of the most easily visualized effects of climate change, was 1 million square miles short of average throughout February.
But, lo and behold, so much new ice froze in March that the overall extent for this winter will end up nearly normal, as compared to the long-term average. That’s a headline no one could have written for years, as the extent of Arctic sea ice has dropped, rhythmically with the seasons, but dropped precipitously and consistently for years. The record-setting extent of melting in the past three summers was to a degree not expected for decades, under mainstream scientific predictions of just a few years ago.
This has absolutely nothing to do with Islam.
| 88 |
RogueOne Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:11:33am |
re: #86 Jadespring
I read your reply about the dogs yesterday but way to late to respond.
I should get some pictures up on the web in the next few weeks. I’ll let you know when I do.
Great!
Off to work folks.
| 89 |
rwdflynavy Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:14:51am |
Good Morning Lizards!
Gotta do some more painting today. With my 3 boys out of school for Spring Break it should be a little more challenging. I’ve got 9 days until I head to DC and a few more painting projects and other projects to complete between now and then.
| 90 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:15:07am |
re: #83 freetoken
Not red… just yellow, for the roses. Honestly, I think the whole idea was a silly stunt by that woman in FL.
Not silly at all. I think this has the makings of a great story.
| 91 |
rwdflynavy Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:21:01am |
re: #90 Spare O’Lake
Not silly at all. I think this has the makings of a great story.
During this whole event between Bibi and Obama I keep thinking of a quote in Bibi’s book, A Durable Peace where he said something to the effect that Israel will remain friends with the US as long as the relationship is helpful to Israel, but that he doesn’t expect the relationship to last.
| 92 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:21:04am |
re: #90 Spare O’Lake
Someone who writes articles for WND can’t be taken seriously by me (in a positive light, anyway).
| 93 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:23:43am |
re: #87 Spare O’Lake
Something Odd for the Arctic:
“Normal” Sea Ice Extent as Winter Ends
As the winter freeze ends, there’s more ice in the Arctic than at any time in recent years. Is this another PR problem for global warming activists?
Only two months ago, it looked as if the Arctic sea ice extent was trending so far below normal that it might set a new record. The extent of Arctic sea ice, a barometer on global warming and one of the most easily visualized effects of climate change, was 1 million square miles short of average throughout February.
But, lo and behold, so much new ice froze in March that the overall extent for this winter will end up nearly normal, as compared to the long-term average. That’s a headline no one could have written for years, as the extent of Arctic sea ice has dropped, rhythmically with the seasons, but dropped precipitously and consistently for years. The record-setting extent of melting in the past three summers was to a degree not expected for decades, under mainstream scientific predictions of just a few years ago.[Link: thedailygreen.com…]
This has absolutely nothing to do with Islam.
I wonder how many AGW aficionados will be furiously spinning and gnashing their teeth, when in reality this positive development is something that we should all be thankful for.
| 94 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:25:04am |
re: #92 freetoken
Someone who writes articles for WND can’t be taken seriously by me (in a positive light, anyway).
Haven’t looked at the story, but just wondering. Was the article written ‘for” the JPost and picked up by WND or the other way around?
| 95 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:27:02am |
re: #94 sattv4u2
The woman sending the roses wrote an article for the WND, according to the story. Furthermore the story indicates she is a bit of an, let’s use the term “activist” in this sort of thing.
| 96 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:27:28am |
re: #95 freetoken
The woman sending the roses wrote an article for the WND, according to the story. Furthermore the story indicates she is a bit of an, let’s use the term “activist” in this sort of thing.
K , thanks
| 97 |
freetoken Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:33:32am |
re: #93 Spare O’Lake
It’s not a development, it’s an anomaly.
“Extent” as used by NSDIC simply means that portion of the sea surface is covered by at least 15% ice. That’s right, 15% ice, and 85% liquid water, and that is the cut-off for extent (well, it used to be, I assume it still is.)
This year there was a very, very strong “Arctic Oscillation” which caused very cold air masses to move out of the arctic to over eastern US and parts of Eurasia. At the same time, warm winds blew north into the Arctic. Ice formation was lagging for some time this winter.
As for sea ice in the Arctic wrt AGW, I keep after people to not look at the short term variations but to take a look at the long term trends. Sea ice, like temperature, varies quite a bit over the short term.
| 98 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:35:06am |
re: #95 freetoken
Got me curious, so I went and read it
SO ,,, OTOH
Florida-based radio host and author Janet Porter was so incensed by what she thought was Obama’s inappropriate behavior that she called upon her listeners to give Netanyahu yellow roses to symbolize friendship, with each bouquet costing a symbolic price of $19.48.
AND
When Kovler contacted the appropriate Netanyahu adviser, he was told that the Prime Minister’s Office could not get involved, because Netanyahu must be very careful to avoid anything that smacks of disrespect for the president at such a sensitive time.
I see no problem with the gesture nor Netanyahu not accepting it, regardless of her activism
And it looks as if she did talk to the JPost directly
Porter told The Jerusalem Post that she believes Netanyahu could still be persuaded to receive the flowers, despite the anti-Obama message that she is not trying to hide
I mean, in the huge scheme of things, it’s actually a non-story, but to dismiss it out of hand just becuase she writes for WND doesn;’t seem right either
Just mho!
| 99 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:35:57am |
re: #92 freetoken
Someone who writes articles for WND can’t be taken seriously by me (in a positive light, anyway).
What caught my eye was the way the JPost story paints Netanyahu as apparently being willing to reject a politically motivated gesture of support from a Christian group, in favour of a stated attempt to curry favour with Obama.
| 101 |
rwdflynavy Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:38:59am |
re: #99 Spare O’Lake
What caught my eye was the way the JPost story paints Netanyahu as apparently being willing to reject a politically motivated gesture of support from a Christian group, in favour of a stated attempt to curry favour with Obama.
This shouldn’t be a surprise. Netanyahu has to avoid upsetting the current administration. He doesn’t want Obama to warm up the bus!!
| 102 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:44:11am |
re: #99 Spare O’Lake
What caught my eye was the way the JPost story paints Netanyahu as apparently being willing to reject a politically motivated gesture of support from a Christian group, in favour of a stated attempt to curry favour with Obama.
Wouldn’t surprise me if they did a background check on who she was and went ‘woah nellie’ we ain’t touching this one with a ten foot poll. Thanks but no thanks.
| 104 |
rwdflynavy Fri, Apr 2, 2010 4:55:38am |
re: #103 MandyManners
SNIP
The photograph reminds me of that Michigan militia.
Worse, they both lack proper trigger discipline!
//
| 105 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:00:27am |
“They blow up so fast these days…”
| 106 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:02:12am |
re: #105 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
“They blow up so fast these days…”
nuh uh ,, you did NOT say that, did you !?!?!
:)
| 107 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:03:26am |
re: #105 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
btw ,,, lost your e-mail address somewhere along the line
hit me up when you get a chance
| 108 |
ryannon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:04:34am |
re: #6 Slumbering Behemoth
And honestly, I am jealous of kids in school today. They are learning factual, real world applications that were only dreamed of in my day, stuff that was once considered science fiction, while my generation was learning various dead languages.
Et tu, Slumbering Behemoth…
| 109 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:06:32am |
re: #108 ryannon
Et tu, Slumbering Behemoth…
Actually, I would like to see a combo of both “real world factual” applications as well as the “various dead languages” Those languages are after all the root of ours today
| 111 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:11:23am |
Both of my kids took Latin from the 8th grade on. Was kind of interesting, they both said that learning the language was useless, but has many practical applications…
Taught them both how to think about languages.
Thought that was pretty cool.
I had four years of Grammar I.
| 112 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:12:35am |
re: #111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Both of my kids took Latin from the 8th grade on. Was kind of interesting, they both said that learning the language was useless, but has many practical applications…
Taught them both how to think about languages.
Thought that was pretty cool.
I had four years of Grammar I.
High school was the best 7 years of my life!
| 113 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:12:48am |
| 114 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:13:31am |
I had to go to school. My pot dealer hung out there!!
/
Morning Honcos!!
| 116 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:14:50am |
re: #111 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Both of my kids took Latin from the 8th grade on. Was kind of interesting, they both said that learning the language was useless, but has many practical applications…
Taught them both how to think about languages.
Thought that was pretty cool.
I had four years of Grammar I.
On a serious note, my son has a school friend that takes Latin (my son opted for Spanish)
For ‘fun”, the friend is learning 3 different Chinese dialects (Rosetta Stone) in his spare time. It’s what he asked for for Christmas!
| 117 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:19:19am |
re: #97 freetoken
It’s not a development, it’s an anomaly.
“Extent” as used by NSDIC simply means that portion of the sea surface is covered by at least 15% ice. That’s right, 15% ice, and 85% liquid water, and that is the cut-off for extent (well, it used to be, I assume it still is.)
This year there was a very, very strong “Arctic Oscillation” which caused very cold air masses to move out of the arctic to over eastern US and parts of Eurasia. At the same time, warm winds blew north into the Arctic. Ice formation was lagging for some time this winter.
As for sea ice in the Arctic wrt AGW, I keep after people to not look at the short term variations but to take a look at the long term trends. Sea ice, like temperature, varies quite a bit over the short term.
Anomaly yes, but a rare positive one. My point is more of a psychological one - I find myself hoping that such short term positive events will continue, while I suspect that many AGW proponents are so fervently invested in the trend that they would be devastated if the trend reversed for reasons unrelated to their agenda.
| 120 |
ryannon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:21:29am |
re: #113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Stones can not be evil. They are only stones.
Only man is evil.
Everybody must get stones….
| 121 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:24:03am |
| 125 |
ryannon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:27:11am |
re: #115 MandyManners
SNIP
By Allah, it doesn’t sound as if he’s just fucking around,SNIP
| 126 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:27:25am |
re: #123 Varek Raith
Good morning fellow shape shifters!
That’s a natural occurrence caused by a combo of
1) age
2) lack of exercise
3) sweet tooth
| 127 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:28:30am |
re: #99 Spare O’Lake
What caught my eye was the way the JPost story paints Netanyahu as apparently being willing to reject a politically motivated gesture of support from a Christian group, in favour of a stated attempt to curry favour with Obama.
That couldn’t have been a tough decision:
“Let’s see: do I curry favor with some fringe players and piss off the President of the United States, or do I say no to the flowers?” Probably took him milliseconds.
| 128 |
ryannon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:29:35am |
| 132 |
ryannon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:34:03am |
re: #130 MandyManners
Brave man to send a grief-stricken, teen-aged widow to do his dirty work.
Were they out of the mentally handicapped?
| 133 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:34:14am |
re: #128 ryannon
Everybody must get stoned… dylan
| 134 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:38:13am |
re: #133 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Everybody must get stoned… dylan
Isn’t that what Frank Sinatra sang about
“doobie doobie doo”
| 135 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:40:26am |
Morning everyone. It’s an awesomely nice day today, supposed to get in the 70s. There’s a new little market outside the Metro and the bakery stand gave me a free sample of one of their rolls (it will be perfect with my salad for lunch.) Guess I better buy a loaf from them soon.
I have a date tonight and a gig tomorrow. What more can I ask for? (except pie.)
| 136 |
Spare O'Lake Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:40:50am |
re: #127 garhighway
That
couldn’tmust have been a tough decision:“Let’s see: do I
curry favor with some fringe playersgive him a kick in the nuts and piss off the President of the United States, or do Isay no to the flowersreward that insulting arrogant prick for humiliating me?”
FIFY
| 137 |
ryannon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:42:02am |
re: #133 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Everybody must get stoned… dylan
I figured. But it’s too obvious. The Stones doing Dylan was two birds with one…cherry pit. Also, I love that video. It was one of the very first to be shot with digital camera. It was directed by Michel Gondry, a Frenchman who does some of the best music videos in the business - along with the Brit Chris Cunningham. Back to the video - a lot of Marianne Faithful’s life in there, plus some marvelous shots of Keith Richards devolving into the missing link right in front of our eyes. Not to mention that smile of complicity by Charlie Watts when the band’s playing on stage….
| 141 |
keloyd Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:43:41am |
| 142 |
ryannon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:44:00am |
re: #134 sattv4u2
Isn’t that what Frank Sinatra sang about
“doobie doobie doo”
Back in Frank’s day, they were called reefers. When I was a roadie for the John Hammand Band, the black musicians called them ‘johnsons’ - something I’ve never heard since.
| 143 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:44:05am |
| 144 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:45:00am |
re: #134 sattv4u2
Isn’t that what Frank Sinatra sang about
“doobie doobie doo”
And what about that Doo Bee character from Romper Room?
| 145 |
keloyd Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:45:27am |
re: #138 MandyManners
There I give them both a pass. The Muslims have grounds to hold a bit of a grudge, and the Spaniards are smart enough to not let the camel’s nose into the tent, as it were.
| 146 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:46:24am |
re: #144 Mad Al-Jaffee
And what about that Doo Bee character from Romper Room?
Look, that lady looked into an empty frame and saw people. There was a doobie involved, IMO.
| 147 |
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:46:59am |
re: #22 Stanley Sea
I go to the link & Pat Buchanan is the first 3 tweets.
dang.
| 148 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:49:12am |
Morning Lizards … last nite I made a post saying we needed a new WF Buckley type in the GOP. I nominated Bill Bennett and was disappointed in how he was viewed. He’s a guy who has “done some things” in his life, both good and bad. He has condemned extremism on the far right, which is more than anyone else has done. The response by one was to call many of his views “odious.” Another pointed out some of his other imperfections. Duh. Anyone who has been around for any amount of time can be tagged for many bad decisions. But those who look for perfection are usually disappointed and cynical because the world never lives up to their standards. Bennett is one of the good guys and I hope he plans to step up.
| 150 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:51:02am |
re: #144 Mad Al-Jaffee
And what about that Doo Bee character from Romper Room?
Hell , ya HAD to be stoned for that!
| 152 |
keloyd Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:53:19am |
re: #115 MandyManners
SNIP
SNIP
By Allah, It sounds like Hyacinth Bucket (pronounced Boo-KAY) has reverted to Islam and is giving the Jihad some impeccable manners.
| 156 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:55:30am |
re: #149 MandyManners
SNIP
Mandy … you know I’m not a huge fan of Obama. But if he gets iran right and neutralizes that threat, he earns major “ups” from me. If working Pakistan is his way of dealing with iran, I’ll give it a chance. But the clock IS ticking.
| 157 |
RogueOne Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:55:36am |
re: #105 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
“They blow up so fast these days…”
I love you man!
Everyone have a good holiday, off to Indy for the day. BBL
| 158 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:55:41am |
re: #148 _RememberTonyC
I wasn’t surprised by the reaction (I saw the posts).
Conservative thinkers are looked upon with disdain from the left. Liberal thinkers (are dumb) are looked upon with disdain from the right. No partisans listen objectively to the other side.
We are loaded with partisans from each side. Few objective thinkers.
If you’re expecting either side too look upon the other side with admiration, you’re expecting a bit much.
How you doin’?
| 159 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:57:30am |
| 161 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 5:59:03am |
re: #159 _RememberTonyC
I liked his “Book of Virtues”. Listened to it (recorded book) he read most of it. Wonderful, soothing speaking voice also.
IIRC, The Left hated it. You know… being virtuous and all.
| 163 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:00:30am |
re: #158 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I wasn’t surprised by the reaction (I saw the posts).
Conservative thinkers are looked upon with disdain from the left. Liberal thinkers (are dumb) are looked upon with disdain from the right. No partisans listen objectively to the other side.
We are loaded with partisans from each side. Few objective thinkers.
If you’re expecting either side too look upon the other side with admiration, you’re expecting a bit much.
How you doin’?
Thanks for crushing my belief in mankind. I live in the middle, slightly to the right at the moment. The people on the left don’t get me at all. I give Obama credit sometimes, and have voted Dem more than Rep in my life. But if you disagree with the leftist orthodoxy, you are seen as a hopeless right winger. The older types on the board understand this. The nouveau lizards sometimes don’t.
| 165 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:02:19am |
re: #161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I liked his “Book of Virtues”. Listened to it (recorded book) he read most of it. Wonderful, soothing speaking voice also.
IIRC, The Left hated it. You know… being virtuous and all.
his radio show is on sirius 144 from 6-9am ET. it’s always a good listen.
| 166 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:03:08am |
| 167 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:03:37am |
re: #162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
forgot the sarc tag… really…
| 168 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:03:55am |
| 169 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:04:57am |
| 170 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:04:58am |
re: #168 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not even close.
yeah …. but he really seems like a good guy …. politics aside.
| 172 |
keloyd Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:05:15am |
re: #153 MandyManners
A pass? are you saying that the mystical reversion of lands that were once held by the Moors and are now Spanish territory should be honored?
NO! Spaniards should keep what they took. Still, the building in question (not the whole country!) was built as a mosque, then ‘liberated’ and converted to being a cathedral, like the Hagia Sophia mosque in Turkey, but in reverse. If I ever get to be a rich bigshot American tourist in Turkey, I would at least cross myself in the Mosque, once I already had gotten the tour, so if they kick me out, I was leaving anyway, and Turkish Muslims aren’t as twitchy as some of the others.
We all have “a right” to whatever we can grab and hold. The Holy Land belonged to Christians and Jews, then the Muslims conquered it fair and square, then it was theirs “by right.” Then we took some back in the crusades, then it was “rightfully” ours again. Whoever has it now, it’s theirs, until someone can take it.
| 173 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:05:47am |
| 174 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:05:50am |
re: #165 _RememberTonyC
his radio show is on sirius 144 from 6-9am ET. it’s always a good listen.
They ain’t gonna see me at 6am EVAH! Does it replay. I’d like to hear the show, I have Sirius. John Gibson is my hero.
| 175 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:05:52am |
re: #148 _RememberTonyC
Anyone who wants to deny other their rights is odious to me. Bennett’s opposition to gay marriage is odious to me.
In addition, his minimizing of racism, his accusation that the black Democrats who were shouted at were attempting to provoke it, and his bizarre logic that racial epithets being shouted mean that racism is over, do not recommend him highly to any moderate person.
But if you disagree with the leftist orthodoxy, you are seen as a hopeless right winger. The older types on the board understand this. The nouveau lizards sometimes don’t.
Oh please. Patronization of people who find his views on gay marriage objectionable, his stance on the drug war impractical and harmful, and his attitudes on race blinkered and, at best, naive, is not the answer.
You too, FBV.
| 176 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:06:15am |
re: #171 MandyManners
He turned me into a newt!
| 177 |
keloyd Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:07:32am |
| 180 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:08:49am |
re: #174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They ain’t gonna see me at 6am EVAH! Does it replay. I’d like to hear the show, I have Sirius. John Gibson is my hero.
Gibby is a bit over the top sometimes, but he is a welcome alternative to Rush. Bennett probably does webcasts that you can down load, but the show does not reair on sirius.
| 181 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:10:21am |
| 183 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:10:38am |
re: #178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Good morning.
Here’s a historical thingy that I didn’t know:
Many of you may know the show Rumpole of the Bailey, or the books, written by John Mortimer.
But did you know that same John Mortimer was the defender in some of Britain’s most famous obscenity cases, including the Sex Pistols? How cool is that! He defended their use of the word ‘bollocks’.
| 184 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:11:31am |
re: #175 Obdicut
Uh… by the way… read my comment again and tell me why you are calling me naive.
Read them again and tell me why you just called me naive.
| 185 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:11:40am |
Like I need a reason to party!!
holidayinsights.com
| 186 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:12:24am |
re: #174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
They ain’t gonna see me at 6am EVAH! Does it replay. I’d like to hear the show, I have Sirius. John Gibson is my hero.
He was on Red Eye a couple of days ago.
| 187 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:13:26am |
re: #181 _RememberTonyC
Do you want to address what I actually said, or are you content with the patronization?
What exactly recommends Bennett? He’s a staunch supporter on the War on Drugs, when we imprison a higher percentage of our population than the Soviet Union did, a very large number of those for drug crimes.
He’s staunchly opposed to gay marriage, when the national mood is becoming more and more accepting of it every day.
At a time when America is going through a sort of catharsis on race that includes some ugly elements bubbling to the surface, he has declared racism over.
What makes him the man to get the GOP back on course?
re: #184 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I didn’t call you naive. I called Bennet’s views on race at best naive. Apologies for the confusion.
| 191 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:15:56am |
re: #184 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Uh… by the way… read my comment again and tell me why you are calling me naive.
Read them again and tell me why you just called me naive.
people who set impossibly high standards for others are the naive ones. some have no street smarts, and others are destined to always be disappointed when others fall short of their standards. that same crowd is also willing to go “all in” for someone they do see as nearly perfect, like President Obama. Because he is a “God-like” presence for them, they accept things from him that they SHOULD question. And that is WAY troubling to me.
| 192 |
hellointernet Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:17:08am |
I was watching the current ep. of “Real Time with Bill Maher” last night. Does anybody know if Christopher Hitchens has developed/is developing some sort of degenerative disease? He looks bloated (moreso than usual) and was making an obv. effort to conceal one or both of his trembling hands during the interview.
| 193 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:17:11am |
re: #187 Obdicut
Do you want to address what I actually said, or are you content with the patronization?
What exactly recommends Bennett? He’s a staunch supporter on the War on Drugs, when we imprison a higher percentage of our population than the Soviet Union did, a very large number of those for drug crimes.
He’s staunchly opposed to gay marriage, when the national mood is becoming more and more accepting of it every day.
At a time when America is going through a sort of catharsis on race that includes some ugly elements bubbling to the surface, he has declared racism over.
What makes him the man to get the GOP back on course?
re: #184 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I didn’t call you naive. I called Bennet’s views on race at best naive. Apologies for the confusion.
until you fucking grow up, i will not be addressing you directly. i think your attitude sucks and i have no interest in you at the moment.
| 194 |
lawhawk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:17:13am |
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Good Friday to all those celebrating the day.
Since this is a Friday, it means that the Palestinians are up to their usual nonsense. They’re busy claiming that the popular uprising that Fatah has been calling for - another intifada - isn’t going to be a violent one. That’s what they’re saying in English, but what are they telling their minions in the mosques and in Arabic? Not the same thing.
They’re trying to backtrack from what they were calling a popular uprising given that the phrasing is the usual call for violence - in past intifadas and they’ve been drumming that line for months now.
The Palestinians are also absolutely lying about the conditions in the West Bank - claiming that it thwarts a violent response given that Palestinians maintain civil administrative control over most of the West Bank and all of Gaza. That they can’t kill more Israelis is the result of Israel taking sufficient steps to minimize the violence. And for that, the Palestinians are bitter.
Meanwhile, the Brits are fretting over Israel’s forceful response to renewed kassam attacks, ignoring that Israel has every right to go after the terrorists.
And as for an item that better belongs in the April Fool’s catalog, Sen. John Kerry says that Syria is committed to peace. If Syria were committed to Mideast peace, they’d stop sending weapons to Hizbullah and acting as both a proxy for Iran and pushing their own agenda in Lebanon.
| 195 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:20:07am |
re: #191 _RememberTonyC
Obama also falls short of my standards in many ways. His support for corn biodeisel during the campaign was a major sign that he was willing to compromise what was best for what was most politically desireable, even on very significant issues. And of course, his own objections to gay marriage, even if they aren’t policy objections, are also odious. In addition, his obvious naiveté on world politics was a concern.
The whole ‘god-like’ thing is a tired and bored accusation that does nothing to help us talk about the topic.
Obama was the best choice; Obama was, and is, wildly imperfect.
| 196 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:20:13am |
Joy !!! (until you actually analyze it)!
Employers added most jobs in 3 years in March
The Labor Department said employers added 162,000 jobs in March, the most since the recession began but below analysts’ expectations of 190,000. The total includes 48,000 temporary workers hired for the U.S. Census, also fewer than many economists forecast.
Private employers added 123,000 jobs
Someone math is off
162K jobs added, minus the 48K census temp jobs comes out to 114K , NOT 123K (and thats even supposing that there were no other gov’t jobs added within the 162K ,, highly unlikely)
| 197 |
keloyd Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:20:33am |
re: #183 Obdicut
HA! That’s the pilot Rumpole! It was odd to see the darker, introspective Rumpole with a different wife.
In other news for anglophiles, Yes Minister and Jeeves and Wooster* are on Youtube in their entirety if you too are intermittently employed and have time to kill. I say it’s not stealing if the Beeb is giving content away for free (to its own subjects), some charitable soul posts it in 10 minute chunks, and no one’s lawyers complain.
| 198 |
Ericus58 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:22:28am |
re: #194 lawhawk
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. Good Friday to all those celebrating the day.
Since this is a Friday, it means that the Palestinians are up to their usual nonsense. They’re busy claiming that the popular uprising that Fatah has been calling for - another intifada - isn’t going to be a violent one. That’s what they’re saying in English, but what are they telling their minions in the mosques and in Arabic? Not the same thing.
They’re trying to backtrack from what they were calling a popular uprising given that the phrasing is the usual call for violence - in past intifadas and they’ve been drumming that line for months now.
The Palestinians are also absolutely lying about the conditions in the West Bank - claiming that it thwarts a violent response given that Palestinians maintain civil administrative control over most of the West Bank and all of Gaza. That they can’t kill more Israelis is the result of Israel taking sufficient steps to minimize the violence. And for that, the Palestinians are bitter.
Meanwhile, the Brits are fretting over Israel’s forceful response to renewed kassam attacks, ignoring that Israel has every right to go after the terrorists.
And as for an item that better belongs in the April Fool’s catalog, Sen. John Kerry says that Syria is committed to peace. If Syria were committed to Mideast peace, they’d stop sending weapons to Hizbullah and acting as both a proxy for Iran and pushing their own agenda in Lebanon.
Outstanding Post, great observations.
| 199 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:23:06am |
re: #193 _RememberTonyC
Wow. Okay then. I think that attitude sucks.
I listed specific areas where I have problems with Bennett in his policies and views. I have insulted no-one, except Bennett. And your response is to tell me that my attitude sucks.
Tell me, are there any liberals that you don’t feel have a sucky attitude?
Oh, wait, you’re not going to ‘directly’ address me until I ‘grow up’. I assume that means you’ll still be snipping at me indirectly.
| 200 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:23:16am |
re: #194 lawhawk
nice post … kerry would have been a terrible CiC …
| 202 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:23:46am |
Check out the “Dining Room.”
| 203 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:23:52am |
re: #187 Obdicut
While I do not support Gay marriage, I do support all other rights and privilege of married couples to gay couples. Civil unions, sure. Met a gay couple once, she introduced me to her “wife”… guess what… I didn’t attack I said, “Nice to meet you.” SHOCKA!
The drug war?… I am still not sure about it. Don’t want people on drugs, but I drink, therefore… hell, I am still not sure about it. Legalization? Then the people who ain’t in jail, will be in rehab on my dime… hell, I am still not sure about it.
Racism… anything that comes from the right regarding race is turned to racism. I think that Bill Bennett is nor more of a racist than I am .
Bill and I are pretty close to the same page… I am just on the fence on the drug thing.
| 204 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:24:20am |
| 205 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:25:41am |
re: #195 Obdicut
Well said.
Gay marriage appears to be the major stumbling block between the left and the African American community. It also appears that it will continue to be so.
| 206 |
Semper Fi Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:26:05am |
Good morning, Lizards
Gonna be in the 60’s today but looks clear out there. I’ll drive to LA today - in another hour or two. Some distance before Barstow I’ll pass a Ron Paul enthusiast. It’s an old gas station loaded with RP signs. Maybe curiosity will cause me to pull-in one day to see what’s goin’ on. Not today though.
Hope all of you have a great day and enjoy loved ones this w-end.
| 207 |
lawhawk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:27:03am |
re: #196 sattv4u2
The figures definitely don’t seem to add up, unless you look here.
162,000 top line jobs were claimed created.
39,000 government jobs created, mostly in temporary census
123,000 private sector jobs created.
In the goods-producing sector, manufacturing added 17,000 jobs in March and construction payrolls grew 15,000. Payrolls in the services sector increased as retail employment climbed 14,900. Government employment increased 39,000, reflecting the temporary hiring for the census.The average workweek for all employees rose to 34 hours from 33.9 hours in February.
The key figure isn’t so much the jobs creation numbers, which remain pathetic, but that the average workweek is slowly creeping up- more pressure to hire, because OT may cost an employer more than hiring a new worker. Problem is that most of the job creation is temporary due to the census; once that number is taken away, the jobs figures look all the worse.
| 209 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:27:20am |
yes i will …. but you seem like a decent person, so i’ll try one more time. grow up. if my opinion means nothing to you, please do not respond to my posts. your style is annoying and it obscures any decent point you may make. style matters to me and yours is abrasive. Read into my posts whatever you want, but get over yourself …. every comment i make is not about you, so it ain’t personal.
| 210 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:28:07am |
re: #203 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I’m fine with anyone who supports civil unions with full equality. Bennett is also opposed to that.
The drug war is a complicated issue, but Bennett’s attitude is solely about enforcement, which is not a viable solution.
I didn’t call Bennett a racist, so I have no idea why you’re talking about that. I’m not talking about his ill-judged words on abortion and blacks, which I think was just a very awkwardly phrased idea, not a racist one.
Are you aware of his specific remarks in the context of the insults being shouted at the congressmen, though?
And again: What is there to like about him? What positions does he hold that are really awesome and that I should find compelling? Literally all I know about him are negatives.
| 212 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:29:22am |
re: #202 Mad Al-Jaffee
Check out the “Dining Room.”
That dining room table is a little small. And funny-shaped.
| 213 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:29:33am |
re: #161 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I liked his “Book of Virtues”. Listened to it (recorded book) he read most of it. Wonderful, soothing speaking voice also.
IIRC, The Left hated it. You know… being virtuous and all.
I found it to be a poor excuse for virtue, even more poorly written and laughed my as* off at him when his gambling issues became public. Thanks but no thanks, I’ll keep teaching my son from an older bok of virtues, probably in the NSRV version with the JPS Tanakh as well.
William
| 214 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:29:51am |
re: #207 lawhawk
Great. Now they’ll create a permanent Census…
/
| 215 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:30:03am |
re: #205 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
The younger generation gives much less of a shit, in the black community as well, and more importance is tied up in the particular word ‘marriage’. I used to be opposed to anything other than just letting gays marry, but my gay friends all agree that its the rights they want, and the terminology doesn’t matter.
| 216 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:30:20am |
re: #209 _RememberTonyC
yes i will … but you seem like a decent person, so i’ll try one more time. grow up. if my opinion means nothing to you, please do not respond to my posts. your style is annoying and it obscures any decent point you may make. style matters to me and yours is abrasive. Read into my posts whatever you want, but get over yourself … every comment i make is not about you, so it ain’t personal.
Nothing abrasive in that post.
| 218 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:30:37am |
re: #203 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
While I do not support Gay marriage, I do support all other rights and privilege of married couples to gay couples. Civil unions, sure. Met a gay couple once, she introduced me to her “wife”… guess what… I didn’t attack I said, “Nice to meet you.” SHOCKA!
The drug war?… I am still not sure about it. Don’t want people on drugs, but I drink, therefore… hell, I am still not sure about it. Legalization? Then the people who ain’t in jail, will be in rehab on my dime… hell, I am still not sure about it.
Racism… anything that comes from the right regarding race is turned to racism. I think that Bill Bennett is nor more of a racist than I am .
Bill and I are pretty close to the same page… I am just on the fence on the drug thing.
if the feds legalized weed, the tax revenue generated could pay a lot of the health care bill. and we could neutralize some of the drug activity on the southwest border.
| 219 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:30:44am |
| 220 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:30:49am |
re: #207 lawhawk
ALSO added into is is an up-tic in construction jobs as building picks up in the northern states post winter. Again, those are usually not long term, even in a good economy
| 221 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:31:17am |
re: #216 garhighway
Nothing abrasive in that post.
i was nicely offering feedback to someone who needs it.
| 222 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:31:52am |
re: #213 wlewisiii
He can afford to gamble. He’s just not a very good gambler.
I did like the book.
If I were just as smart as you.
| 223 |
_RememberTonyC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:32:34am |
gonna take a walk before work …. later folks
| 224 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:33:25am |
re: #158 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Conservative thinkers are looked upon with disdain from the left. Liberal thinkers (are dumb) are looked upon with disdain from the right. No partisans listen objectively to the other side.
Well, I enjoy David Brooks & dearly miss Mr. Buckley. And while I rarely agree with him, P.J. O’Rourke (sp?) can turn a skewering turn of phrase.
Unfortunately I miss Mike Harrington even more. Little in the way of the pseudo-intellectual writing coming out of the left these days is even worthy to be used as a bookmark for his works.
Good morning!
William
| 226 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:34:31am |
re: #213 wlewisiii
I found it to be a poor excuse for virtue, even more poorly written and laughed my as* off at him when his gambling issues became public. Thanks but no thanks, I’ll keep teaching my son from an older bok of virtues, probably in the NSRV version with the JPS Tanakh as well.
William
A) he never (not to my knowledge) gambled illegally. all in legit casinos
B) as far as I can tell, it didn’t take away from his family. (i.e. food and shelter)
| 228 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:35:10am |
Anybody here halfway versed in military law? They moved the FT. Hood shooter to a local jail instead of the stockade. Are they gonna try him in civilian court? Only dealing I had with military justice was being a witness at a court martial.
Good morning Lizard land!
| 229 |
Ericus58 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:35:18am |
The local bar was so sure that its bartender was the strongest man around
that they offered a standing $1000 bet. The bartender would squeeze a lemon until all the juice ran into a glass and hand the lemon to a patron. Anyone who could squeeze one more drop of juice out would win the money. Many people had tried over time (weightlifters, longshoremen, etc.) but nobodycould do it.
One day this scrawny little man came in, wearing thick glasses and a
polyester suit, and said in a tiny, squeaky voice, “I’d like to try the
bet.”
After the laughter had died down, the bartender said okay, grabbed a lemonand squeezed away. Then he handed the wrinkled remains of the rind to the little man.
But the crowd’s laughter turned to total silence as the man clenched his
fist around the lemon and six drops fell into the glass.
As the crowd cheered, the bartender paid the $1000, and asked the little
man, “What do you do for a living? Are you a lumberjack, a weightlifter, or what?”
The man replied, “I work for the IRS.”
| 230 |
badger1 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:35:29am |
So I was miffed last year when getting down-dinged for syaing I was a AGW sceptic and now Michael Mann says he is a sceptic.
| 231 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:35:38am |
re: #209 _RememberTonyC
I’m grown up, Tony. I’m fine with my style. I’m able to speak perfectly well with most of the conservatives on this site without them taking umbrage.
It is also odd hat after the debacle of the Democrats trying to get HCR passed that you believe that there’s a ‘liberal orthodoxy’. There isn’t. There’s a herd of cats, both in people an ideas, that are currently ‘liberal’. There is no orthodoxy.
A large part of the reason for this is that most people who are financially pragmatic but finds the SoCons to be utterly abhorrent are more likely to be found amongst the Democrats, or at least voting for them, then among the GOP. This gives the false impression that a lot of ideas that are simply very practical are ‘liberal’.
If the GOP was able to jettison its SoCon baggage— and I know, that may simply be politically impossible— then I think they’d find a whole host of pragmatic moderates who would re-invigorate the party.
| 232 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:36:26am |
re: #226 sattv4u2
It was, iir, one of his kids college funds.
| 233 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:36:37am |
re: #227 cliffster
Still afloat in a sea of troubles.
My apologies to the Bard of Avon.
| 234 |
keloyd Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:37:11am |
re: #218 _RememberTonyC
Frontline’s latest Drug War documentary (and this week’s Southpark!) agree. They went a bit further to point out that weed has a special place in the crime syndicates. It’s bulky, less profitable, and more labor intensive than other drugs. The result - weed creates all the entry-level mafia jobs in Latin America. When the little guy distinguishes himself growing/distributing marijuana, Tony Montana promotes him to bigger and better things. If we cut weed out of their business, it’s a big deal.
| 235 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:37:29am |
re: #215 Obdicut
The younger generation gives much less of a shit, in the black community as well, and more importance is tied up in the particular word ‘marriage’. I used to be opposed to anything other than just letting gays marry, but my gay friends all agree that its the rights they want, and the terminology doesn’t matter.
I suppose that is a pragmatic middle ground, but I hate that we have to create a caste system with varying classes of “marriage”. What is the point of creating a flavor of marriage that has everything but the name? It panders to people whose objection is based either in religion or bigotry.
| 236 |
Ericus58 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:37:41am |
re: #228 pingjockey
Anybody here halfway versed in military law? They moved the FT. Hood shooter to a local jail instead of the stockade. Are they gonna try him in civilian court? Only dealing I had with military justice was being a witness at a court martial.
Good morning Lizard land!
Seeing how he is currently an active duty member and his crime was committed on a military post, I would think that UCMJ and Military court would take precedence.
but I’m just a retiree with no formal background.
| 237 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:37:56am |
re: #230 badger1
That’s a total misinterptation of what Mann is saying:
“I would call them contrarians or, frankly in some cases, climate change deniers,” he said. “I’m a skeptic. When I see a scientific claim being made, I want to see it subject to scrutiny and validation.”
As in www.skepticalscience.com
He’s making the point that the AGW deniers are not actually skeptical, because a skeptic examines all the information available skeptically, rationally deciding it on its scientific merits.
| 239 |
Semper Fi Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:38:16am |
re: #138 MandyManners
SNIP
Hello, Mandy
Your post interests me. Muslims intent on praying in a Catholic cathedral… To me, that’s a wow! No way would I pray to G-d in a mosque. You see, I’ve never considered Allah to be the G-d of the bible. Also, the church would have long ago consecrated the cathedral as such. Anyway, that really caught my attention. Many of you post do.
| 241 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:39:13am |
re: #226 sattv4u2
A) he never (not to my knowledge) gambled illegally. all in legit casinos
B) as far as I can tell, it didn’t take away from his family. (i.e. food and shelter)
Exactly. It’s his money. He can spend it however he wants. If in doing so, he discovers that he’s a trifle irrational about gambling, maybe it makes him a little more understanding of other’s weaknesses and therefore a better person.
| 242 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:39:28am |
re: #235 garhighway
I did feel that way in the past, but literally all of my gay friends feel differently.
One of them put it this way:
“Maybe we should have a new word, to indicate that this is a new thing, free of bigotry, open to whatever religious meaning the individual, not tradition, wants to put on top of it.”
For a new time, a new word. It’s not a terrible argument.
| 243 |
William Barnett-Lewis Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:39:43am |
re: #222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
He can afford to gamble. He’s just not a very good gambler.
I did like the book.
If I were just as smart as you.
Eh, I haven’t had enough coffee today to be smarter than box of rocks. As for Mr. Bennitt, I don’t think he’s all that bad a fellow but I bought, read & quickly sold his book as I really didn’t feel it taught anything valid about virtue. That may well be the rocks showing through again …
William
| 244 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:41:04am |
re: #242 Obdicut
I did feel that way in the past, but literally all of my gay friends feel differently.
One of them put it this way:
“Maybe we should have a new word, to indicate that this is a new thing, free of bigotry, open to whatever religious meaning the individual, not tradition, wants to put on top of it.”
For a new time, a new word. It’s not a terrible argument.
I guess. And if they are OK with it, who am I to judge?
But I hate seeing the bigots win. That’s my failing.
| 245 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:41:20am |
Oh wow! Just a beautifil sunrise starting here in Eastern Wa.
| 247 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:41:35am |
re: #232 wozzablog
It was, iir, one of his kids college funds.
Google comes up with nothing to that assertion. In fact, according to WIKI
Bennett never said he had a problem with gambling and has maintained that his habit did not put himself or his family in any financial jeopardy. After Bennett’s gambling became public, he said that he did not believe that his habit set a good example, that he had “done too much gambling” over the years, and that his “gambling days are over”. “We are financially solvent,” his wife Elayne told the USA Today. “All our bills are paid.” She added that his gambling days are over. “He’s never going again,” she said.[8]
| 248 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:41:48am |
re: #242 Obdicut
Interesting thought. Has anyone ever suggested what that word might be?
| 249 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:41:52am |
re: #239 Semper Fi
I’m not a theologian - but i’ve always believed all major religions believe in the same god, as they all share prophets and similar stories.
| 250 |
keloyd Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:43:16am |
re: #230 badger1
So I was miffed last year when getting down-dinged for syaing I was a AGW sceptic and now Michael Mann says he is a sceptic.
True, but his quote seems to emphasize ‘skeptic’ is not code for ‘denier’. He really means ‘sleptic’ in the tradition of legitimate science. ‘Against both the zealots and deniers’ will get him a lot of hate mail.
| 251 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:43:46am |
re: #235 garhighway
I suppose that is a pragmatic middle ground, but I hate that we have to create a caste system with varying classes of “marriage”. What is the point of creating a flavor of marriage that has everything but the name? It panders to people whose objection is based either in religion or bigotry.
How about this - get the government out of the business of marriage. Wanna get married? Go to a church.
| 252 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:44:27am |
re: #244 garhighway
Yeah, but I do think that’s— and remember, that was a position I held for a long time— almost a vanity position, one attaching more meaning to symbolism than reality.
The new generation doesn’t care. Support for gay relationships, gay parents, etc. is growing every minute. I’d rather my gay friends have their rights sooner, than have a symbolic semantic victory.
Now, there are a lot of civil union proposals that do not guarantee the same rights, and civil society will still need to respect the unions, but this is one case where many private companies are far beyond the government in terms of recognition of gay rights.
The battle doesn’t have to be won at all at once. Civil rights are always incremental.
| 253 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:44:29am |
re: #251 cliffster
How about this - get the government out of the business of marriage. Wanna get married? Go to a church.
Sorry ,, disagree
What church would my atheist friends go too?
| 254 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:44:32am |
re: #237 Obdicut
That’s a total misinterptation of what Mann is saying:
As in www.skepticalscience.com
He’s making the point that the AGW deniers are not actually skeptical, because a skeptic examines all the information available skeptically, rationally deciding it on its scientific merits.
I think he’s also trying to make the point that all good scientists are also skeptics.
| 255 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:45:20am |
Good Morning Lizards
Happy Good Friday to all
| 256 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:46:49am |
| 258 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:47:45am |
re: #253 sattv4u2
Sorry ,, disagree
What church would my atheist friends go too?
That’s the point. Why would your atheist friends want the label, “married”? Do your atheist friends also want to be baptized?
| 259 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:48:09am |
re: #248 Jadespring
“Union” is the most common one I’ve heard used. I mean, I’m not saying this would be semantics enforced by law; I expect many gay people would still call themselves married. But those who are opposed to gay marriage on semantic grounds would be able to rightly say that gays cannot marry.
I mean, even now, in the absence of gay marriage, my committed gay friends refer to themselves as ‘married’ and use spousal words for each other. Because the law cannot, in the end, really dictate how people regard each other.
That’s why the rights are more important than the words.
| 260 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:48:18am |
re: #256 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hooters.
/
If you got married at Hooters, it means you have the best wife ever. Ever.
| 261 |
Ericus58 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:48:21am |
re: #253 sattv4u2
Sorry ,, disagree
What church would my atheist friends go too?
The Church of Hichens
| 262 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:49:05am |
re: #251 cliffster
How about this - get the government out of the business of marriage. Wanna get married? Go to a church.
I agree: the state should give you a certificate that has the legal meaning, and then if you want a fancy ceremony with fancy words, you do whatever else you want to: in a church or a temple or a synagogue or on the beach. And any two consenting adults that are not under any legal disability can get the certificate. After that, you arrange your own ceremony.
| 263 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:49:25am |
re: #260 cliffster
If you got married at
HootersScores, it means you have the best wife ever. Ever.
| 265 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:49:41am |
re: #247 sattv4u2
It was an “if i recall” - found a couple of bulletin board comments to the effect, it is out there as a rumour.
| 266 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:49:48am |
re: #252 Obdicut
Yeah, but I do think that’s— and remember, that was a position I held for a long time— almost a vanity position, one attaching more meaning to symbolism than reality.
The new generation doesn’t care. Support for gay relationships, gay parents, etc. is growing every minute. I’d rather my gay friends have their rights sooner, than have a symbolic semantic victory.
Now, there are a lot of civil union proposals that do not guarantee the same rights, and civil society will still need to respect the unions, but this is one case where many private companies are far beyond the government in terms of recognition of gay rights.
The battle doesn’t have to be won at all at once. Civil rights are always incremental.
I reluctantly agree.
| 267 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:49:49am |
re: #258 cliffster
Yes, I’m getting married, to another atheist, in June, and we both would like to be ‘married’.
When you say to get the government out of the marriage business, do you mean to remove all the federal laws that relate to marriage at all, and grant those partners no special rights at all? Would people be required to draw up contracts granting each other the rights they’d currently enjoy when being married?
Honest question, trying to figure out how this would work.
| 268 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:49:50am |
re: #260 cliffster
If you got married at Hooters, it means you have the best wife ever. Ever.
especially if the reception is at a strip club.
| 269 |
Semper Fi Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:50:42am |
re: #249 wozzablog
I’m not a theologian - but i’ve always believed all major religions believe in the same god, as they all share prophets and similar stories.
As have I, with the exception of Allah. I’ve so much to learn about my own faith.
| 270 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:50:53am |
| 271 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:50:58am |
re: #266 garhighway
Trust me, it made me sick in my stomach to agree too, and it means still being very vigilant against those who use ‘civil union’ to mean something far inferior in rights to marriage.
But man, we’ve moved farther than I thought we would in my life already, even if paradoxically I can’t believe it’s 2010 and we’re still worried about where other people put their peckers.
| 272 |
prairiefire Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:51:25am |
Geez, this girl is stacked:huffingtonpost.com
| 273 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:51:26am |
re: #258 cliffster
civil weddings take place in mayors offices all over the country.
weddings often result in a marriage having taken place.
| 274 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:51:47am |
re: #251 cliffster
How about this - get the government out of the business of marriage. Wanna get married? Go to a church.
You can already do that if you want. It’s the difference between a ‘spiritual marriage’ and a legal marriage that comes with all the legal, tax stuff and rights.
I’m ‘church’ married but not ‘government’ married because the ceremony was not recognized by the state. Do fall into common law legal provisions though. If we have kids I’ll probably get government married at some point because legally and bueareucratically it’s just less hassle in dealing with things like pensions, wills and all the other rights stuff.
| 275 |
laZardo Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:52:07am |
re: #253 sattv4u2
Sorry ,, disagree
What church would my atheist friends go too?
Starbucks. Or Hot Topic, after the great Hipster-Emo Schism.
| 276 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:53:07am |
re: #272 prairiefire
Geez, this girl is stacked:[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com…]
True, but that doesn’t mean she can sing Tom Waits songs.
| 277 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:54:04am |
re: #270 Cannadian Club Akbar
And the wife dances.:)
Honey..A couple of the girls want to go to Aruba with us..
/
| 278 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:54:33am |
re: #265 wozzablog
It was an “if i recall” - found a couple of bulletin board comments to the effect, it is out there as a rumour.
Elvis sightings are also “out there as rumors’.
Bennett talks about his boys often. iirc they are (or were) on the lacrosse teams of the Ivy League college they attend(ed)
John and Joseph are their names. Too generic of a name to narrow it down in GOOGLE for moi
| 280 |
sattv4u2 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:55:32am |
And on that note, heading home for sleepy time
BBL
| 281 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:56:26am |
re: #267 Obdicut
Yes, I’m getting married, to another atheist, in June, and we both would like to be ‘married’.
When you say to get the government out of the marriage business, do you mean to remove all the federal laws that relate to marriage at all, and grant those partners no special rights at all? Would people be required to draw up contracts granting each other the rights they’d currently enjoy when being married?
Honest question, trying to figure out how this would work.
Pretty much, yeah. (there’s not really a lot of federal laws though - mostly state) Either way, yes the government would get out of the business of “marriage” per se.
| 283 |
Semper Fi Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:58:04am |
re: #264 MandyManners
Have you forgotten reversion, the claim that anything that once belonged to Muslims reverts to their control?
BTW, thanks for the compliment, Semper Fi!
Oh, that’s right!
| 284 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:58:13am |
| 285 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:58:22am |
re: #271 Obdicut
Concur. What 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom is nobodies business but theirs.
| 287 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 6:59:47am |
re: #285 pingjockey
Concur. What 2 consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom is nobodies business but theirs.
And the cameraman.
/
| 289 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:01:07am |
re: #281 cliffster
There are actually quite a few more federal laws and regulations regarding marriage than you’d think.
According to the United States Government Accountability Office (GAO), there are 1,138[1] statutory provisions in which marital status is a factor in determining benefits, rights, and privileges.
That’s federal only.
If a boilerplate contract could be drawn up granting all the current rights of marriage, alterable by everyone entering into it, but— and this is really, really important— always granting equal rights to both people in this marriage— I’d be fine with that.
However, that’s a rather tall order. And to me, it’s still semantics: the government would still be overseeing those rights. The rights would have shifted from being rights granted due to a state of being and be rights directly recognized through a contract, which is more pleasing to the libertarian side of me.
| 290 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:01:11am |
re: #284 cliffster
If two atheists want to confirm their bond of love with each other - and go to a community authority figure in the presence of witnesses to do so - i don’t see that as blurring church and state.
| 291 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:03:14am |
re: #288 MandyManners
It’s entirely possible that the first sailors to reach America came from a Muslim country, but it’d just be a random historical tidbit with no real meaning behind it.
Hell, the Egyptians might have gotten here first, pre-Islam. (YayThor Heyerdahl, you crazy bastard!)
| 293 |
Semper Fi Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:03:31am |
re: #288 MandyManners
Years ago, somewhere here gave me some links that show Islam claims to have discovered America.
So, we can add them to our list of discoverers.
| 294 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:04:06am |
re: #292 SteveC
Thank you for reminding me I have to do my frigging taxes.
| 295 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:04:08am |
| 296 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:04:13am |
re: #291 Obdicut
It’s entirely possible that the first sailors to reach America came from a Muslim country, but it’d just be a random historical tidbit with no real meaning behind it.
Hell, the Egyptians might have gotten here first, pre-Islam. (YayThor Heyerdahl, you crazy bastard!)
I heard it was a guy named Bob.
/
| 297 |
keloyd Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:04:22am |
re: #283 Semper Fi
Oh, that’s right!
That goes for people too. You don’t convert to Islam, you revert to it, since Islamic scholars teach we were all originally Muslim in the time of Adam, and even the Semitic slaves of Pharoah were really Muslims(!) That’s what you get when 13 centuries of scholars get to interpret/spin/bend the meaning of words.
That said, we also make the mistake in casual speech of calling the Hebrew slaves “Jews” before Judah was ever born.
| 298 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:04:30am |
re: #291 Obdicut
Or the Phoenicians! Who knows where those crazy sailors went in search of women and booze!
| 299 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:05:08am |
| 300 |
SteveC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:05:18am |
re: #296 Cannadian Club Akbar
I heard it was a guy named Bob.
/
Aliens, man… Aliens. Trust me on this one.
| 301 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:06:06am |
re: #300 SteveC
Aliens, man… Aliens. Trust me on this one.
You been listening to Coast to Coast again?
/
| 302 |
SteveC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:06:27am |
re: #298 pingjockey
Or the Phoenicians! Who knows where those crazy sailors went in search of women and booze!
So you’re saying that American girls are easy?!?!
//Outraged!
| 303 |
SteveC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:07:21am |
re: #301 Cannadian Club Akbar
You been listening to Coast to Coast again?
/
It’s on my radio no matter where I go! I can’t handle the truth! *crying*
| 304 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:07:28am |
re: #290 wozzablog
If two atheists want to confirm their bond of love with each other - and go to a community authority figure in the presence of witnesses to do so - i don’t see that as blurring church and state.
Of course they can, and they can call it “marriage” if they like. I think you’re missing the point. There’s a lot of marriage stuff in the laws.. I’m saying get rid of all that.
| 305 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:07:40am |
re: #300 SteveC
I thought it was the folks from Atlantis? See when we started thawing out after the last ice age, Atlantis got swallowed up by the sea and they went all over the world. That’s why there’s pyramids in Egypt and the Americas!
| 306 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:08:38am |
re: #302 SteveC
It has been my experience, back in the 80s that Aussie girls were.
| 307 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:08:49am |
re: #304 cliffster
All for that mate, no argument here on that point.
| 308 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:08:55am |
re: #302 SteveC
So you’re saying that American girls are easy?!?!
//Outraged!
Well, she was an American girl
Raised on promises
She couldn’t help thinkin’
That there was a little more to life somewhere else
After all it was a great big world
With lots of places to run to
And if she had to die tryin’
She had one little promise she was gonna keep
O yeah, all right
Take it easy, baby
Make it last all night
She was an American girl
| 309 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:09:31am |
Good morning lizards!
Somewhere there is the worst internet service in the world….I have that service. My internet has been out for weeks except for 5 minute to 2 hour intervals. On top of that I am in the process of quitting smoking cold turkey.
Since I am in sales I have to put on a happy face all day. This weekend is going to be interesting.
| 310 |
Semper Fi Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:09:40am |
re: #297 keloyd
That goes for people too. You don’t convert to Islam, you revert to it, since Islamic scholars teach we were all originally Muslim in the time of Adam, and even the Semitic slaves of Pharoah were really Muslims(!) That’s what you get when 13 centuries of scholars get to interpret/spin/bend the meaning of words.
That said, we also make the mistake in casual speech of calling the Hebrew slaves “Jews” before Judah was ever born.
Your post is one of the many reasons I enjoy this blog. Thanks.
| 312 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:09:54am |
| 313 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:10:04am |
re: #308 HoosierHoops
You better rest up if you are going out with the boys! Have a fun weekend!
| 314 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:11:19am |
re: #312 wozzablog
Heh. Sounds like a movie title…oh wait.
| 315 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:11:41am |
re: #267 Obdicut
Yes, I’m getting married, to another atheist, in June, and we both would like to be ‘married’.
When you say to get the government out of the marriage business, do you mean to remove all the federal laws that relate to marriage at all, and grant those partners no special rights at all? Would people be required to draw up contracts granting each other the rights they’d currently enjoy when being married?
Honest question, trying to figure out how this would work.
Happy Good Friday, everyone (yeah, even heathens like Obdicut/)
Been following this convo…the only logical (non-emotional or non-bigoted) difference between marriage rights that still holds any water for me is as it relates to childrearing. I don’t have any problem with gays adopting.
On the other hand, the data which supports, on average, positive outcomes correlated to the presence of a male AND female parent in the home is legion. I’m in favor of calling a spade a spade and saying that it is not bigoted to want to reserve some small favoritism for the more typical male-female marriage given its proven advantages in the area of child-rearing.
Note that i’m not saying two committed gay parents can’t provide a great home. I’m just saying that two equally committed hetero parents have a built-in advantage, and I don’t know why acknowledging the reams of data supporting that statement is any more bigoted than acknowledging that certain races are more likely to suffer from, say, anemia.
What do you think?
| 316 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:12:14am |
re: #309 NJDhockeyfan
Best of luck in quitting smoking. I was able to do it four years ago, on my fifth try. Best decision of my life.
Things that helped:
1800-NOBUTTS. I called them when I was feeeling a craving and could just talk to them until it passed.
Welbutrin— that made the peaks of the cravings much lower.
Not drinking— if you drink, you’re going to smoke.
Still taking breaks at work, like I used to with smoke breaks, but just inhaling deeply.
Saving the money that I didn’t spend on cigarettes and buying myself awesome stuff with it.
Best of luck!
| 317 |
darthstar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:12:46am |
re: #309 NJDhockeyfan
Good morning lizards!
Somewhere there is the worst internet service in the world…I have that service. My internet has been out for weeks except for 5 minute to 2 hour intervals. On top of that I am in the process of quitting smoking cold turkey.
Since I am in sales I have to put on a happy face all day. This weekend is going to be interesting.
Good morning, good luck, and you must have Comcast internet. I have to reboot my modem every couple of days. Even filed a maintenance ticket with them. They traced my usage for a week or two, got back to me and said, “yep, your service sucks.” Well, at least I feel validated.
| 319 |
SteveC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:13:16am |
*forehead slap*
Fox News has a program coming up - Sarah Palin is going to profile the average Americans who never gave up and never gave in.
Oh - my - word!
| 320 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:13:21am |
Now I know why the sunrise was so awesome. The underside of a big ass storm cloud was being lit up. It is snowing across the river and up on the ridge.
| 321 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:13:25am |
re: #313 pingjockey
You better rest up if you are going out with the boys! Have a fun weekend!
I’m off work.. Think we are going to Stone Temple Pilots tonight…Daughtry is Saturday..And Sunday..Sunday ..Sunday!
Free food and Basketball!
My Boss flies in Monday Morning and wants me to find him Tickets to the Final Monday night…He is not going to like to price..It’s 400 bucks for nose bleed section at Lucas Oil Stadium
| 322 |
Semper Fi Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:13:28am |
No more stalling for me. Time to throw a few things in the car and go.
Thanks llzards.
| 323 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:13:39am |
re: #290 wozzablog
If two atheists want to confirm their bond of love with each other - and go to a community authority figure in the presence of witnesses to do so - i don’t see that as blurring church and state.
It’s not really. In a religious or secular ceremony the state requires a sanctioned agent of the state to perform the contract and three things: A declaration of intent, a declaration that there are no legal impediments to the two being ‘married’ and an declaration of agreement. It’s basically a contract. The whole thing can be done with three sentences and responses. The rest of whatever ceremony is just fluff and personal trappings as far as the state part in the ceremony is concerned.
| 324 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:14:43am |
re: #258 cliffster
That’s the point. Why would your atheist friends want the label, “married”? Do your atheist friends also want to be baptized?
Because there are two separate, very different things meant by the word ‘marriage’. One of them refers to the religious sanction granted by churches; the other is the state-sanctioned contract between two individuals that grants a variety of legal rights and responsibilities to the participants.
The latter confers all manner of legal benefits - and obligations - that many couples want. The former confers religious benefits - and obligations - specific to a particular religion that couples of similar faith want.
But again - these are two entirely different things, that share little if any overlap. That the same word is used for both is unfortunate, and the cause of much confusion, but it isn’t the only word that suffers from multiple meanings. A recognition of these disparate meanings, in fact, neatly resolves the entire “gay marriage issue” by revealing it as a non-issue: the contract recognized by the state, which is what gays want, has no connection with the religious union recognized by various churches, so there is no problem with the state extending such contracts to gays, and no implication that such an extension has any implication for a church’s recognition or rejection of marriage status between gays.
| 325 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:15:14am |
re: #309 NJDhockeyfan
Good morning lizards!
Somewhere there is the worst internet service in the world…I have that service. My internet has been out for weeks except for 5 minute to 2 hour intervals. On top of that I am in the process of quitting smoking cold turkey.
Since I am in sales I have to put on a happy face all day. This weekend is going to be interesting.
Wow. I usually work from home on Friday (I’m a sales manager at the moment) but today i’m not really going to work…we’re dead today. Will you have actual work to do? Usually sales jobs are pretty light on opportunities on Good Friday.
And good luck with quitting. I’m no help. I like to have the occasional cigarette with the occasional drink but nicotine, strangely, doesn’t make me feel anything but sick if i have too much. I can smoke a pack over a weekend with the guys and not touch another one for six months…i don’t know why.
| 326 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:15:29am |
re: #319 SteveC
Oops, you’re late to the party. They are canned interviews, and it doesn’t appear she did any of them. LL Cool J already called Fox out on it.
| 331 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:16:43am |
re: #316 Obdicut
congrats on quitting, by the way. it’s no small feat.
| 332 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:16:47am |
re: #315 Aceofwhat?
On the other hand, the data which supports, on average, positive outcomes correlated to the presence of a male AND female parent in the home is legion.
The word correlated is important there, and the fact the culture has been bigoted against all other arrangements casts serious doubt on whether or not that is because of anything ‘natural’ or because society penalizes kids who are not in that circumstance.
In addition, you are not giving a fair review of the evidence when you present is as a consensus. It is not. It has not been a very long time that gays could even be parents, it’s rather too soon to say that we’ve learned everything there is to know on the subject.
Note that i’m not saying two committed gay parents can’t provide a great home. I’m just saying that two equally committed hetero parents have a built-in advantage,
So do two white parents versus two black parents. So do two educated parents versus two uneducated ones. So do too rich parents, versus two poor parents.
Should we give preference to those, too? If so, why not?
| 333 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:17:16am |
re: #324 SixDegrees
Because there are two separate, very different things meant by the word ‘marriage’. One of them refers to the religious sanction granted by churches; the other is the state-sanctioned contract between two individuals that grants a variety of legal rights and responsibilities to the participants.
The latter confers all manner of legal benefits - and obligations - that many couples want. The former confers religious benefits - and obligations - specific to a particular religion that couples of similar faith want.
But again - these are two entirely different things, that share little if any overlap. That the same word is used for both is unfortunate, and the cause of much confusion, but it isn’t the only word that suffers from multiple meanings. A recognition of these disparate meanings, in fact, neatly resolves the entire “gay marriage issue” by revealing it as a non-issue: the contract recognized by the state, which is what gays want, has no connection with the religious union recognized by various churches, so there is no problem with the state extending such contracts to gays, and no implication that such an extension has any implication for a church’s recognition or rejection of marriage status between gays.
Exactly.
| 335 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:17:26am |
re: #329 pingjockey
Final Four tickets now? He’s nuts.
My former boss paid $1000 for a final four ticket. In 1992!!
| 336 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:17:32am |
re: #317 darthstar
Good morning, good luck, and you must have Comcast internet. I have to reboot my modem every couple of days. Even filed a maintenance ticket with them. They traced my usage for a week or two, got back to me and said, “yep, your service sucks.” Well, at least I feel validated.
I wish I had Comcast internet. Since I live in a rural area we out here don’t get a choice between DSL or cable internet services. Up until a year ago I had dial-up service. Now I have IBEC BPL. It been down more than it’s up and the speed lately when it is up is slower than dial-up. I called them and blasted them yesterday.
| 337 |
darthstar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:17:32am |
re: #319 SteveC
*forehead slap*
Fox News has a program coming up - Sarah Palin is going to profile the average Americans who never gave up and never gave in.
Oh - my - word!
That was last night. They’re just trying to sell the half-term quitter governor as a real American story of stick-to-it-iveness.
| 338 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:18:36am |
re: #331 Aceofwhat?
congrats on quitting, by the way. it’s no small feat.
I had to. My fiancee is asthmatic, and she’s a cancer researcher.
You know how shitty you feel when you make a cancer researcher cough? Really shitty.
It was the hardest thing I’d ever done though, yeah. Fucking nicotine is the devil.
| 339 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:18:56am |
re: #316 Obdicut
Thank you! I have some gum right now. If that doesn’t help I will try the nicotine patches/gum next. I want to see how far I can go without help right now.
| 340 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:19:14am |
re: #329 pingjockey
Final Four tickets now? He’s nuts.
My Boss is loaded..Hell if I kiss his ass enough monday he’ll take me with him..
It’s legal to scalp tickets in Indiana..There are tons of tickets for sale at every game here.. Wait till the game starts and the prices drop fast…
| 341 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:19:25am |
re: #335 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yah. My parents got to go in the 90s when it was in Seattle. Sat in the 300 level of the Kingdome. IIRC, they had to have a sherpa and oxygen to get to their seats.
| 342 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:19:28am |
re: #35 Lidane
*sigh*
Nirther idiocy at its finest:
Pitch him into Leavenworth, and leave him there for a few years.
| 343 |
darthstar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:19:50am |
re: #334 MandyManners
What’s gonna’ happen when someone demands that a church sanction his/her civil marriage and takes that church to court?
Separation of Church & State. Or someone starts a Christian ministry that allows for same-sex marriage and people who feel compelled to get a religious wedding get one.
| 344 |
lawhawk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:19:55am |
re: #328 MandyManners
They released the video because another terror outfit claimed credit, so Hamas had to release it to show that they were behind the attack precipitating the incident so as to show that they’re still in the jihad against Israel. The terror group is trying to coordinate activities among the various terror groups in Gaza to maximize their impact and to avoid serious repercussions by Israel - do just enough to make life hard on Israelis, but not so hard that Israel slams Gaza with airstrikes. Do just enough to keep the Gazans focused on Israel’s reprisals, but not so much that the Gazans realize that Hamas is the one responsible for destroying what little Gazans have left and decide to take matters into their own hands.
Hamas could care less about the day to day affairs of governance. They’ve got a jihad to plan for.
| 345 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:20:19am |
re: #340 HoosierHoops
Well if he doesn’t mind paying then he can get them.
| 346 |
SteveC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:20:19am |
re: #326 pingjockey
Oops, you’re late to the party. They are canned interviews, and it doesn’t appear she did any of them. LL Cool J already called Fox out on it.
Didn’t know that. What ricoched through my brain was the thought that the person who is the host of this show is
someone who stepped down from her elected job as Governor!
| 347 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:20:59am |
| 348 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:21:41am |
re: #342 Dark_Falcon
Pitch him into Leavenworth, and leave him there for a few years.
The trouble is that the Wingnuts would turn him into America’s first* political prisoner.
* But not last, once Chairman Oba”Mao” is done.
//
| 349 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:21:44am |
| 350 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:22:00am |
re: #342 Dark_Falcon
I saw that earlier this week. He’s a goddamn asshole. Worse in my mind than that sob from Ft. Lewis who was a objector and managed a mistrial. This guy is an idiot.
| 351 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:22:11am |
re: #345 pingjockey
Well if he doesn’t mind paying then he can get them.
I got Stanley Cup Finals tickets for game 7 through an online ticket broker. Didn’t get killed, but did pony up mucho.
| 352 |
darthstar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:22:14am |
re: #336 NJDhockeyfan
I wish I had Comcast internet. Since I live in a rural area we out here don’t get a choice between DSL or cable internet services. Up until a year ago I had dial-up service. Now I have IBEC BPL. It been down more than it’s up and the speed lately when it is up is slower than dial-up. I called them and blasted them yesterday.
Ah…broadband over powerlines. I’d heard about that several years ago as a possibility. Didn’t know it was actually getting implemented. Cool. Buggy, but cool.
| 353 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:22:22am |
re: #334 MandyManners
What’s gonna’ happen when someone demands that a church sanction his/her civil marriage and takes that church to court?
That would simply rejected as silly. As noted, there is no connection between the religious, church-granted sanction of marriage, and the state-sanctioned contract of marriage. They are two entirely different things.
If someone wants their church to recognized gay marriage, that’s a matter between them and their church.
Example: it is currently easy for Catholics and non-Catholics to obtain a marriage license from the state, or for divorced Catholics to do likewise. It is difficult, at best, for such couples to marry within the Catholic church. Same word, two completely different circumstances.
| 355 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:23:09am |
re: #328 MandyManners
SNIP
Got those sewers repaired yet, Hamas?
Hamas cares not for sanitation, only for murder and tyranny.
| 356 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:23:27am |
re: #332 Obdicut
So do two white parents versus two black parents. So do two educated parents versus two uneducated ones. So do too rich parents, versus two poor parents.
Should we give preference to those, too? If so, why not?
Let me clarify. The advantage of a male and female presence is very widely seen as causative, not merely correlative. The advantage persists in the face of changing variables…it’s a statistically significant factor (= causative).
Rich/poor…black/white…these are things that we can’t change. Gay parents can choose to adopt. I believe they should be allowed to. I believe very strongly that committed gay parents can provide a much better home than the foster care carousel. But there’s no reason to pretend that heterosexual parents don’t have a natural advantage. Data is data.
| 358 |
darthstar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:24:00am |
re: #342 Dark_Falcon
Pitch him into Leavenworth, and leave him there for a few years.
Just give him a Dishonorable Discharge for being an asshole who refuses to follow orders, and watch him squirm looking for a hospital that wants him.
| 360 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:25:29am |
re: #352 darthstar
Ah…broadband over powerlines. I’d heard about that several years ago as a possibility. Didn’t know it was actually getting implemented. Cool. Buggy, but cool.
Cool idea, yes but it is awful, Down all the time, very slow when it is working. Since January I barely been able to spend much time online as I would like. They called the other night and asked my wife if she thought it was a good idea to expand. LOL
| 361 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:25:36am |
re: #358 darthstar
Just give him a Dishonorable Discharge for being an asshole who refuses to follow orders, and watch him squirm looking for a hospital that wants him.
Heh. That’s downright vindictive. I like it.
| 362 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:25:49am |
re: #343 darthstar
Churchs should be able to wed whomever they want - provided the pastor is of the mind to do it.
At present i believe all religious institutions should be able to marry whomever they want - whether the state chooses to recognise those unions within the present tax code is up to it, and a few courageous congressmen and or senators.
| 363 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:26:16am |
re: #360 NJDhockeyfan
Cool idea, yes but it is awful, Down all the time, very slow when it is working. Since January I barely been able to spend much time online as I would like. They called the other night and asked my wife if she thought it was a good idea to expand. LOL
we all appreciate your being a test subject for the betterment of the rest of us/
| 364 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:26:29am |
re: #358 darthstar
Give him a Big Chicken Dinner. Bad Conduct Discharge, IIRC, that’s worse than a DD. BTW, either of those 2 types of discharge count as felonies.
| 365 |
SteveC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:26:45am |
re: #359 pingjockey
Bah! PIMFist!
I love posting without a seat belt, but every now and again I run full speed into a semicolon!
| 367 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:26:56am |
re: #362 wozzablog
Churchs should be able to wed whomever they want - provided the pastor is of the mind to do it.
At present i believe all religious institutions should be able to marry whomever they want - whether the state chooses to recognise those unions within the present tax code is up to it, and a few courageous congressmen and or senators.
aren’t you describing the current state of affairs?
| 369 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:27:28am |
re: #356 Aceofwhat?
Let me clarify. The advantage of a male and female presence is very widely seen as causative, not merely correlative. The advantage persists in the face of changing variables…it’s a statistically significant factor (= causative).
And again, is that because of something biological, or because of something linked to the fact that gay couples face a lot of bigotry and lack of acceptance?
Rich/poor…black/white…these are things that we can’t change.
Um, yes, you can chance if you’re rich or poor. Or if you’re educated or not.
I believe they should be allowed to. I believe very strongly that committed gay parents can provide a much better home than the foster care carousel. But there’s no reason to pretend that heterosexual parents don’t have a natural advantage. Data is data.
And again: If gay parents were accepted more broadly, would that still hold true? The evidence from Canada says “No”.
| 370 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:27:39am |
re: #363 Aceofwhat?
we all appreciate your being a test subject for the betterment of the rest of us/
Somebody has to do it.
| 372 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:28:34am |
re: #367 Aceofwhat?
I’m not certain that i am - i believe gay “marriages” were anulled after the state beatdowns.
Will run off and check the paperwork.
| 373 |
darthstar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:28:56am |
re: #361 Kruk
Heh. That’s downright vindictive. I like it.
If you make it hurt, and hurt real bad, people stop doing stupid shit much faster. Notice how quickly the guy that threw money at the guy with Parkinson’s at a political rally jumped up to apologize to his wife, community, the country…once the passion of the moment wore off and he saw his stupid ass on Youtube.
| 374 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:29:19am |
re: #334 MandyManners
What’s gonna’ happen when someone demands that a church sanction his/her civil marriage and takes that church to court?
Depends on the law. If a hypothectically the law says that all religious institutions much legally recognize and sanction any civil marriage then they’d have a case. If the law doesn’t say that then they’d be wasting their money and trying to make a religious point.
Most if not all same-sex marriage laws do not however force any religious institution to do any such thing though and leave the ‘religious’ sanctioning part up to the individual institutions.
This is the way it is in Canada. Some churches do it and some don’t. Even in some large multi denom churches some choose to perform them and some don’t. If a couple has wants to get religiously sanctioned in a church that doesn’t then the beef is with the church not the state and if they took the question to the state to rule the state would say ‘waste of time’ go deal with your church. Not our business.
| 375 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:29:40am |
re: #371 MandyManners
I don’t think the churches will go bankrupt - the prop 8 crowd have a tonne of money to throw around.
| 378 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:30:33am |
Gotta do dishes and take a nap. BBIAB.
| 381 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:31:00am |
re: #348 Kruk
The trouble is that the Wingnuts would turn him into America’s first* political prisoner.
* But not last, once Chairman Oba”Mao” is done.
//
Let them. You can’t let fears of blowback cause you to let your enemies walk all over you. I’ve learned in my life that sometimes you just have to accept the blowback and get things done.
| 383 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:31:14am |
re: #369 Obdicut
And again: If gay parents were accepted more broadly, would that still hold true? The evidence from Canada says “No”.
No, i don’t mean data relating to the success of gay parenting. There isn’t enough data there, and as you said, it is subject to prejudice.
I mean data about not having one of the two sexes involved as a parent regardless of the reason. No father = causative effect. No mother = causative effect.
| 384 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:32:07am |
re: #371 MandyManners
My concern is how much money a church will have to spend to defend itself if a motion for sumamry judgment is not granted.
The Catholic church has been denying marriage rights to whomever they see fit for millenia, IIRC…
| 386 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:33:00am |
re: #379 MandyManners
A suit can still be filed and a church must spend money on legal fees to defend itself.
And would more then likely recoup any fees when the court orders the petitioner to pay them for wasting the churches and the courts time.
| 388 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:33:43am |
re: #383 Aceofwhat?
I mean data about not having one of the two sexes involved as a parent regardless of the reason. No father = causative effect. No mother = causative effect.
You can’t really separate that from gay parenting, though. That’s innately twinned. You can’t be sure if the factor is the missing male/female from the equation, or the presence of societal onus on a gay couple/divorced woman/single mom.
Are you reading the links of the studies that go contrary to what you believe?
| 390 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:34:16am |
#383 Aceofwhat?
No, i don’t mean data relating to the success of gay parenting. There isn’t enough data there, and as you said, it is subject to prejudice.
I mean data about not having one of the two sexes involved as a parent regardless of the reason. No father = causative effect. No mother = causative effect.
But wouldn’t that data be based on single parent families? With all the increased risk of poverty, lack of parental contact time if the one parent is also working, etc? Major confounding factors there.
| 391 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:34:36am |
re: #387 MandyManners
SixDegrees is entirely right. It is not going to affect churches in any way whatsoever. The law will not force churches to perform any ceremonies that they don’t want to do. It’s not going to happen.
| 393 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:34:49am |
re: #384 Aceofwhat?
The Catholic church has been denying marriage rights to whomever they see fit for millenia, IIRC…
Yep. That precedent is very well ingrained in law.
| 394 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:35:09am |
Here is Allegri music for Good Friday (10 min). It has an interesting history (perhaps true) involving the Vatican and a punk named Mozart.
| 395 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:35:25am |
re: #372 wozzablog
I’m not certain that i am - i believe gay “marriages” were anulled after the state beatdowns.
Will run off and check the paperwork.
Dude, i can form the church of Ace, register it with the state, and marry you to an armadillo. It just doesn’t hold legal water. I can’t marry you “by the power vested in me by the state of Florida”…I can only marry you “by the power vested in me through sheer awesomeness”.
But if you’re a true convert to the religion of Ace, all you really care about is being married in Ace’s eyes…
| 397 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:35:59am |
re: #379 MandyManners
A suit can still be filed and a church must spend money on legal fees to defend itself.
So what? That’s true at this very moment, and always has been. I’m not seeing the problem.
| 398 |
Wozza Matter? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:36:21am |
re: #387 MandyManners
any test case will be ginned up to a level of mass hysteria - money will come in. Lawyers will do it pro-bono for the “greater cause”.
A lot of people in california who supported 8 were not keen on the mormon money, but they still took it filtered through intermediaries.
| 399 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:36:23am |
There was a desert wind blowing that night. It was one of those hot dry Santa Anas that come down through the mountain passes and curl your hair and make your nerves jump and your skin itch. On nights like that every booze party ends in a fight. Meek little wives feel the edge of the carving knife and study their husbands’ necks. Anything can happen. You can even get a full glass of beer at a cocktail lounge.— Raymond Chandler
“I used to like this town. A long time ago. There were trees along Wilshire Boulevard. Beverly Hills was a country town. Westwood was bare hills and lots offering at eleven hundred dollars and no takers. Hollywood was a bunch of frame houses on the inter-urban line. Los Angeles was just a big dry sunny place with ugly homes and no style, but good-hearted and peaceful. It had the climate they yap about now. People used to sleep out on porches. Little groups who thought they were intellectual used to call it the Athens of America.[…]Now … we’ve got the riff-raff of a big hard-boiled city with no more personality than a paper cup.”
— Raymond Chandler, The Little Sister
| 401 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:37:50am |
re: #384 Aceofwhat?
The Catholic church has been denying marriage rights to whomever they see fit for millenia, IIRC…
Correct, and that isn’t going to change. Or if it does, that change will not be brought about by state edict. See the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.
| 402 |
SteveC Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:37:51am |
re: #387 MandyManners
Not every church is Mormon, Catholic or even Baptist. I know in local churches here, it would break their budgets very quickly to have to retain legal counsel.
With the Southern Baptist Convention, 95%+ of the churches belong to an association, but every church is an independent entity. First Baptist of Dallas probably has a couple of lawyers on staff. My little 100 member church? We’d be broke in a week.
| 404 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:38:51am |
re: #387 MandyManners
Not every church is Mormon, Catholic or even Baptist. I know in local churches here, it would break their budgets very quickly to have to retain legal counsel.
Tough. There’s nothing preventing such suits now.
| 405 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:38:57am |
re: #388 Obdicut
You can’t really separate that from gay parenting, though. That’s innately twinned. You can’t be sure if the factor is the missing male/female from the equation, or the presence of societal onus on a gay couple/divorced woman/single mom.
Are you reading the links of the studies that go contrary to what you believe?
Yep. Scrupulously. They remind me of studies showing there is no global warming. They’re sparse, narrow, and small.
You can be sure that the factor is the missing gender when that variable is significant throughout myriad different situations. If you’re poor and missing a gender, you’re likely to fare worse than other poor kids with both genders. If you’re rich and missing a gender, you’re likely to fare worse than other rich kids missing a gender.
Don’t tell me that kids whose mom or dad isn’t present in the home fare worse because of “society”. Occam’s razor is not for shaving…
| 406 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:39:01am |
Did you see last summer, where after decades it was discovered that Raymond Chandler made a cameo appearance in Double Indemnity?
| 407 |
Decatur Deb Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:39:08am |
Why are we arguing about the legal and economic impact of a law that has not been drafted?
| 408 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:39:35am |
re: #396 MandyManners
I didn’t say that any law will force churches. I’m talking about individuals’ efforts to force a church.
Individuals can’t force the churches without a law that would force the churches, so that’s not going to happen, either.
| 409 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:40:05am |
re: #407 Decatur Deb
Why are we arguing about the legal and economic impact of a law that has not been drafted?
Because it’s more fun than working? :)
| 411 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:42:16am |
re: #390 Kruk
#383 Aceofwhat?
But wouldn’t that data be based on single parent families? With all the increased risk of poverty, lack of parental contact time if the one parent is also working, etc? Major confounding factors there.
No, they’re variables to be controlled. Basic probability theory. The gender quandary is a significant factor, and i mean “significant” in the statistical sense of the word.
Lots of single parent families have help from extended family. Lots of kids with two parents spend as much time in day care as a kid with a single parent. The gender factor persists.
| 412 |
reine.de.tout Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:42:28am |
re: #408 Obdicut
Individuals can’t force the churches without a law that would force the churches, so that’s not going to happen, either.
Absolutely correct.
However, an individual can figure out an angle to file a suit. Even if the suite were later determined to be frivolous, the church would still have to hire a lawyer to take care of it. That’s what Mandy is talking about - the financial devastation that could occur if a small independent church without many resources were required to hire a lawyer for such a suit, it could break them.
| 414 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:43:05am |
re: #405 Aceofwhat?
Yep. Scrupulously. They remind me of studies showing there is no global warming. They’re sparse, narrow, and small.
If that is going to be your attitude, I have no desire to talk to you on this subject. You are comparing the measurement of a hard science fact to that of a very ineffable soft science one. That is very, very poor form.
You can be sure that the factor is the missing gender when that variable is significant throughout myriad different situations. If you’re poor and missing a gender, you’re likely to fare worse than other poor kids with both genders. If you’re rich and missing a gender, you’re likely to fare worse than other rich kids missing a gender.
That did not address my objection in the least. I am saying that having a home that is man/woman is more respected in society than any other kind, and so that can be the explanation for what the kids turn out better.
Don’t tell me that kids whose mom or dad isn’t present in the home fare worse because of “society”. Occam’s razor is not for shaving…
There is no reason to say that the ‘gender-missing’ explanation is more reasonable. It is not. Biologically, we are related to apes where males play minimal roles in child-rearing. Occam’s Razor says that the difference is not biological, but cultural.
| 415 |
stayfrosty Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:43:53am |
| 416 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:44:27am |
re: #412 reine.de.tout
That can happen right now, so the objection is rather strange. Church ceremonies are already divorced from legal meaning, so there would be no more legitimacy to the suit if there was federal acceptance of marriage.
| 417 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:44:27am |
Off to various markets. This Sunday’s dinner will feature grilled rack of lamb, marinated in olive oil with garlic and thyme; Japonica rice, probably prepared in chicken stock; and peas with mint. No clue on desert yet - maybe just fresh oranges.
| 419 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:46:07am |
re: #407 Decatur Deb
Why are we arguing about the legal and economic impact of a law that has not been drafted?
So we won’t get blindsided if the thing is ever actually hatched.
| 420 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:47:16am |
re: #405 Aceofwhat?
Yep. Scrupulously. They remind me of studies showing there is no global warming. They’re sparse, narrow, and small.
You can be sure that the factor is the missing gender when that variable is significant throughout myriad different situations. If you’re poor and missing a gender, you’re likely to fare worse than other poor kids with both genders. If you’re rich and missing a gender, you’re likely to fare worse than other rich kids missing a gender.
Don’t tell me that kids whose mom or dad isn’t present in the home fare worse because of “society”. Occam’s razor is not for shaving…
Again, is it a missing gender or a missing parent that is causing the poorer outcome? And what caused that person to be missing? A divorce? A death? Either of those can seriously screw up outcomes. Unless there are matched case control (or even better stratified randomised trials) that specifically compare gay and straight couples who have similar incomes, length/type of relationship, legal protection and social circumstances, I think it’s drawing a fairly long bow to claim that having parents of the same gender is a causative factor in poorer outcomes.
| 421 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:47:40am |
re: #362 wozzablog
Churchs should be able to wed whomever they want - provided the pastor is of the mind to do it.
At present i believe all religious institutions should be able to marry whomever they want - whether the state chooses to recognise those unions within the present tax code is up to it, and a few courageous congressmen and or senators.
Some church’s do or did here before the same-sex marriage laws were enacted. At least one had individual churches performing same-sex blessings at least ten years before the law came down that sanctioned those partnerships in the the state’s eyes. Under ‘church’ law they were recognized partnerships in the eyes of their higher authority.
I do believe that there are churches in the US where state sanction same-sex marriage is illegal that do something similar.
| 422 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:47:41am |
re: #417 SixDegrees
Off to various markets. This Sunday’s dinner will feature grilled rack of lamb, marinated in olive oil with garlic and thyme; Japonica rice, probably prepared in chicken stock; and peas with mint. No clue on desert yet - maybe just fresh oranges.
Pea’s with Mint? Never heard of that..How does that work?
Sounds yummy
| 423 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:48:45am |
re: #409 Kruk
Because it’s more fun than working? :)
Work? What is this “work” of which you speak?
/ actually, it’s my day off…
| 424 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:49:37am |
re: #412 reine.de.tout
Absolutely correct.
However, an individual can figure out an angle to file a suit. Even if the suite were later determined to be frivolous, the church would still have to hire a lawyer to take care of it. That’s what Mandy is talking about - the financial devastation that could occur if a small independent church without many resources were required to hire a lawyer for such a suit, it could break them.
There’s nothing barring such a suit now. It doesn’t seem to be an issue. It’s extremely unlikely any such case would even be heard, thanks to the Constitution.
Again: the legal and the religious status of marriage are two entirely different things in every sense. There is no overlap between the two. Catholics, for example, are completely free to refuse marriage between divorcees, just as they are free to refuse to grant a divorce in the first place. The state, meanwhile, is free to recognize divorce, and marriage between those who have been granted them, completely free from whatever the Catholic Church may deem acceptable. Because ‘marriage’ within the church is a completely different thing from ‘marriage’ in the eyes of the state. One is a religious sanction; the other is a legal contract.
| 425 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:50:00am |
re: #410 MandyManners
Restive Thailand!
SNIP
That sure is a bunch of isolated incidents by lone kooks…
| 426 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:50:50am |
re: #411 Aceofwhat?
No, they’re variables to be controlled. Basic probability theory. The gender quandary is a significant factor, and i mean “significant” in the statistical sense of the word.
Lots of single parent families have help from extended family. Lots of kids with two parents spend as much time in day care as a kid with a single parent. The gender factor persists.
No, the *single parent* factor persists (as well as the circumstances that lead to that parent being single in the first place.) You trying to extrapolate from one dataset to a completely different one.
| 427 |
lawhawk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:50:59am |
re: #376 MandyManners
Yes, I saw that - but the reason isn’t to prevent the other terror groups from firing the rockets - it’s to coordinate their firing to maximum effect - Hamas wants to maintain its monopoly on terror activities in Gaza, and Islamic Jihad, the AAMB, al Qaeda spinoffs, and other rogue groups threaten Hamas abilities. I see it as nothing more than an attempt for Hamas to coordinate the attacks in a better fashion so as to maximize the terror on Israel’s citizens while minimizing the effect on Hamas, since Hamas will take the brunt of Israel’s reprisals.
| 428 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:51:33am |
re: #414 Obdicut
yikes. a few things.
i said they “remind me” of AGW skeptic research…nothing stronger than that. of course it’s not a perfect comparison.
and there are simply, unfortunately, far too many single-parent families for this to be a prejudicial affair. that is what i meant. i’m sure you can find a rural town where a few kids are ostracized because they’re from a single-parent family. you can also find schools where single parents are, unfortunately, the norm rather than the exception. the advantage persists. if it were cultural, it would vary by local culture.
and we are biologically quite different from apes. silly statistics about shared DNA aside, take linguistics as an example. it’s a tremendously important biological difference, one so huge that it radically alters basic behavioral norms and renders cross-species comparisons like yours relatively ineffective.
there is much to learn about simian parenting through the study of simians. there is nothing to learn about human parenting, any more than there is to learn about how to teach a child a second language by studying how baboons communicate.
| 429 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:52:02am |
re: #423 The Sanity Inspector
Work? What is this “work” of which you speak?
/ actually, it’s my day off…
I’m off also..Yesterday was the hottest day in History for this date in Indiana
Guess what..Today makes history also..
After the suck winter we had..This is great!
| 431 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:52:15am |
re: #422 HoosierHoops
Pea’s with Mint? Never heard of that..How does that work?
Sounds yummy
Toss your frozen peas in a medium-hot skillet with a little oil. Stir for a couple minutes until warm and tender. S&P to taste. Remove from heat and stir in chopped, fresh mint leaves.
| 432 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:52:39am |
re: #427 lawhawk
Yes, I saw that - but the reason isn’t to prevent the other terror groups from firing the rockets - it’s to coordinate their firing to maximum effect - Hamas wants to maintain its monopoly on terror activities in Gaza, and Islamic Jihad, the AAMB, al Qaeda spinoffs, and other rogue groups threaten Hamas abilities. I see it as nothing more than an attempt for Hamas to coordinate the attacks in a better fashion so as to maximize the terror on Israel’s citizens while minimizing the effect on Hamas, since Hamas will take the brunt of Israel’s reprisals.
We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you.
—Hussein Massawi, the former Hezbollah leader
| 433 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:53:04am |
re: #420 Kruk
Again, is it a missing gender or a missing parent that is causing the poorer outcome? And what caused that person to be missing? A divorce? A death? Either of those can seriously screw up outcomes. Unless there are matched case control (or even better stratified randomised trials) that specifically compare gay and straight couples who have similar incomes, length/type of relationship, legal protection and social circumstances, I think it’s drawing a fairly long bow to claim that having parents of the same gender is a causative factor in poorer outcomes.
I have a hard time believing that there are enough gay, two-parent adoptive families out there to form the basis of a meaningfully large control group.
| 434 |
darthstar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:54:43am |
Okay folks…’working from home’ today so you know what that means. Time to get my ass on the road so I can get to Tahoe ahead of holiday traffic. Should be back by 1pm or so…unless I find the snow looks really good, in which case I might be slightly delayed.
| 435 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:54:46am |
re: #424 SixDegrees
There’s nothing barring such a suit now. It doesn’t seem to be an issue. It’s extremely unlikely any such case would even be heard, thanks to the Constitution.
Again: the legal and the religious status of marriage are two entirely different things in every sense. There is no overlap between the two. Catholics, for example, are completely free to refuse marriage between divorcees, just as they are free to refuse to grant a divorce in the first place. The state, meanwhile, is free to recognize divorce, and marriage between those who have been granted them, completely free from whatever the Catholic Church may deem acceptable. Because ‘marriage’ within the church is a completely different thing from ‘marriage’ in the eyes of the state. One is a religious sanction; the other is a legal contract.
Excatly right. Anybody can file any lawsuit (See: Orly Taitz) but it would be DOA due to the First Amendment.
| 436 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:55:35am |
re: #420 Kruk
Again, is it a missing gender or a missing parent that is causing the poorer outcome? And what caused that person to be missing? A divorce? A death? Either of those can seriously screw up outcomes. Unless there are matched case control (or even better stratified randomised trials) that specifically compare gay and straight couples who have similar incomes, length/type of relationship, legal protection and social circumstances, I think it’s drawing a fairly long bow to claim that having parents of the same gender is a causative factor in poorer outcomes.
when the child is too small to be affected by the reason for the separation, the reason for the separation matters not.
and as Obdicut says, this is a much softer science than, say, climatology. a few small studies ≠ reams of data. If you think this is drawing a long bow, you’re unfamiliar with the process of attributing statistical significance to a variable, which is going to make it really hard for us to make more progress.
| 437 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:56:37am |
re: #434 darthstar
Okay folks…’working from home’ today so you know what that means. Time to get my ass on the road so I can get to Tahoe ahead of holiday traffic. Should be back by 1pm or so…unless I find the snow looks really good, in which case I might be slightly delayed.
Travel safely.
| 438 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:57:01am |
re: #431 SixDegrees
Toss your frozen peas in a medium-hot skillet with a little oil. Stir for a couple minutes until warm and tender. S&P to taste. Remove from heat and stir in chopped, fresh mint leaves.
Wow…Never heard of that! Wait till I share that with Veggie here..
We are food nuts…
You may not believe this.. I have never had lamb in my life…
Never once…I’m putting it on my bucket list someday..Never sounded good to me..
| 439 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:58:06am |
re: #432 The Sanity Inspector
We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you.
—Hussein Massawi, the former Hezbollah leader
He said that, but America has a hard time listening to such words, or rather our State Department does.
| 440 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:58:10am |
MSNBC tries to debunk objections to the HCR law. The headline says “myths”, but they’re forced to admit that most of them have something to them.
| 441 |
NJDhockeyfan Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:58:14am |
Obama’s Approval Rating Hits New Low
Last week, President Obama signed historic health care reform legislation into law — but his legislative success doesn’t seem to have helped his image with the American public.
The latest CBS News Poll, conducted between March 29 and April 1, found Americans unhappier than ever with Mr. Obama’s handling of health care - and still worried about the state of the economy.
President Obama’s overall job approval rating has fallen to an all-time low of 44 percent, down five points from late March, just before the health bill’s passage in the House of Representatives. It’s down 24 points since his all-time high last April. Forty-one percent of those polled said they disapproved of the president’s performance.
When it comes to health care, the President’s approval rating is even lower — and is also a new all-time low. Only 34 percent approved, while 55 percent said they disapproved.
Americans are still worried about the economy, with 84 percent telling CBS they thought it was still in bad condition. However, even that high number represents an improvement: nine in ten thought the economy was bad during the last half of 2008 and at the beginning of 2009, when Mr. Obama assumed the Presidency.
What happened to that bounce he was supposed to have after passing ObamaCare™ ?
| 442 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:59:12am |
re: #434 darthstar
Okay folks…’working from home’ today so you know what that means. Time to get my ass on the road so I can get to Tahoe ahead of holiday traffic. Should be back by 1pm or so…unless I find the snow looks really good, in which case I might be slightly delayed.
I hate the drive to Tahoe on the weekends..Good luck..Are you taking hiway 50?
| 443 |
Vicious Babushka Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:59:49am |
re: #432 The Sanity Inspector
We are not fighting so that you will offer us something. We are fighting to eliminate you.
—Hussein Massawi, the former Hezbollah leader
What is it that you want us to do?
| 444 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 7:59:57am |
re: #433 garhighway
I have a hard time believing that there are enough gay, two-parent adoptive families out there to form the basis of a meaningfully large control group.
there really aren’t. unfortunately, there are enough similar situations (single mom with help from sister or her mom) which simulate a one-gender upbringing. kids can certainly succeed in that kind of loving home. it’s a disadvantage, not a disorder.
i firmly believe that gay parents can provide a great home. at the same time, i am tired of the meme that only bigotry prevents us from saying that a male/female couple doesn’t inherit a distinct advantage.
| 445 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:00:15am |
re: #433 garhighway
I have a hard time believing that there are enough gay, two-parent adoptive families out there to form the basis of a meaningfully large control group.
Which is why I have trouble believing that anyone’s shown with any certainty that gay parents have children with poorer outcomes than straight ones. It could be that they do, and it could be that don’t. Using it as the basis to deny gays the legal and financial security of marriage (or consigning their marriage to a status) simply risks creating a self fulfilling prophecy.
If we really wanted to do this properly, then we should subject *all* prospective marriages to a full risk analysis (using factors such as age, income, education, past relationship history, and yes, race) to determine the odds of that marriage being a stable one, and the state deciding the status of the marraige based on the outcome. With modern computers, it should take all of five minutes. Anyone want to go down that road?
| 446 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:00:53am |
re: #440 The Sanity Inspector
MSNBC tries to debunk objections to the HCR law. The headline says “myths”, but they’re forced to admit that most of them have something to them.
I like that. “Partially not true” and “Mostly false”.
| 447 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:01:16am |
re: #438 HoosierHoops
Wow…Never heard of that! Wait till I share that with Veggie here..
We are food nuts…
You may not believe this.. I have never had lamb in my life…
Never once…I’m putting it on my bucket list someday..Never sounded good to me..
ha! i keep shoulders in the freezer for nights when i’m cooking for myself…i’ll take lamb on the grill over average steak any day of the week…
| 449 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:03:24am |
re: #441 NJDhockeyfan
Obama’s Approval Rating Hits New Low
What happened to that bounce he was supposed to have after passing ObamaCare™ ?
Just a caution: That poll was “all adults”, which is not a reliable indicator of votes in an off-year election. Polls that are more reliable will survey registered voters or likely voters.
| 450 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:04:18am |
re: #436 Aceofwhat?
when the child is too small to be affected by the reason for the separation, the reason for the separation matters not.
and as Obdicut says, this is a much softer science than, say, climatology. a few small studies ≠ reams of data. If you think this is drawing a long bow, you’re unfamiliar with the process of attributing statistical significance to a variable, which is going to make it really hard for us to make more progress.
Dude, I’m currently seeing chi squares and ranksum tests in my dreams. (I kid you not, I’m at that stage of my PhD where data anaysis is all consuming.) And I have a foot in both quantitative and qualitative analysis (one of my supervisors is a sociologist and the other is a medical doctor), so I do know a bit about using data from one situation in another, and the many traps to watch out for.
| 451 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:05:40am |
re: #445 Kruk
Which is why I have trouble believing that anyone’s shown with any certainty that gay parents have children with poorer outcomes than straight ones. It could be that they do, and it could be that don’t. Using it as the basis to deny gays the legal and financial security of marriage (or consigning their marriage to a status) simply risks creating a self fulfilling prophecy.
If we really wanted to do this properly, then we should subject *all* prospective marriages to a full risk analysis (using factors such as age, income, education, past relationship history, and yes, race) to determine the odds of that marriage being a stable one, and the state deciding the status of the marraige based on the outcome. With modern computers, it should take all of five minutes. Anyone want to go down that road?
that was one of the more absurd things i’ve ever read. our government already subsidizes all kids of behavior, or penalizes. you pay extra taxes if you buy cigarettes. is that discrimination? boogabooga!
there exists a factor which provides an advantage. i am in favor of subsidizing it. period. just like we do with everything else.
| 452 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:06:22am |
One of the Moscow subway suicide bombers was the 17-year-old widow of a slain Islamist rebel from the North Caucasus, a leading Russian newspaper reported on Friday, according to The Associated Press.
| 454 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:07:38am |
re: #444 Aceofwhat?
there really aren’t. unfortunately, there are enough similar situations (single mom with help from sister or her mom) which simulate a one-gender upbringing. kids can certainly succeed in that kind of loving home. it’s a disadvantage, not a disorder.
i firmly believe that gay parents can provide a great home. at the same time, i am tired of the meme that only bigotry prevents us from saying that a male/female couple doesn’t inherit a distinct advantage.
Single parent + other relative does not equal two committed same gender parents.
I respectfully suggest there is NO study that demonstrates otherwise.
In the absence of such a study, believing that there is an inherent disadvantage to the children of a gay marriage is just that: a belief.
My belief, (that I freely label as such) is that if and when such a study occurs, it will find that the quality of upbringing of such children will be way more affected by the other demographic factors (race, class, education) than by the mixed- or same-gender status of the parents. To the point where hypothesizing an advantage to children of straight marriages will require so many qualifications that it will be meaningless, except as a window into the belief system of the proponent.
| 455 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:08:38am |
re: #451 Aceofwhat?
that was one of the more absurd things i’ve ever read. our government already subsidizes all kids of behavior, or penalizes. you pay extra taxes if you buy cigarettes. is that discrimination? boogabooga!
there exists a factor which provides an advantage. i am in favor of subsidizing it. period. just like we do with everything else.
And thereby reinforcing an existing and undeserved privilege based on pretty flaky data. You really consider gay marriage worth mentioning in the same breath as smoking? Please.
| 456 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:08:52am |
re: #450 Kruk
Dude, I’m currently seeing chi squares and ranksum tests in my dreams. (I kid you not, I’m at that stage of my PhD where data anaysis is all consuming.) And I have a foot in both quantitative and qualitative analysis (one of my supervisors is a sociologist and the other is a medical doctor), so I do know a bit about using data from one situation in another, and the many traps to watch out for.
than you need to read 40 years of studies rather than randomly wondering if, over decades, anyone has bothered to pass Probability Theory 101.
If your sociologist supervisor tells you about an interesting study they read, do you immediately ask them if they remembered to test for significance? No, you figure they couldn’t get published if they can’t get that right.
| 457 |
laZardo Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:09:19am |
Fuji-apple-flavored Slurpee is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
/at least until the comedown.
//What’d I miss? 8D
| 458 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:09:26am |
Poultry plant fire in NC, no injuries.
Brings back memories of this horror, from 18 years ago.
| 459 |
avanti Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:10:17am |
re: #449 Dark_Falcon
Just a caution: That poll was “all adults”, which is not a reliable indicator of votes in an off-year election. Polls that are more reliable will survey registered voters or likely voters.
I saw that link on H. A. this AM and it made me think. I wondered why they did not comment on his better Rasmussen numbers, but suddenly picked a one time outer from the hated MSM. If the CBS numbers go up, they’ll look for a weaker poll where ever they can find it.
| 460 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:10:42am |
re: #440 The Sanity Inspector
MSNBC tries to debunk objections to the HCR law. The headline says “myths”, but they’re forced to admit that most of them have something to them.
What really interesting is NONE of the people I have spoken too who were in FAVOR of this bill, including the folks here on LGF, none of those folks EVER brought up a single one of these facts that are highlighted in the MSMBC article.
Did they know, were they fooled, did they go along with it because of partisan politics. Either way, now we are fucked.
Read that article…
| 462 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:10:58am |
re: #457 laZardo
Fuji-apple-flavored Slurpee is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
/at least until the comedown.
//What’d I miss? 8D
That’s right, rub it in with your exotic tropical fruit flavors! I’d love me a red-bean ice cream bar right about now…
| 463 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:12:01am |
re: #447 Aceofwhat?
ha! i keep shoulders in the freezer for nights when i’m cooking for myself…i’ll take lamb on the grill over average steak any day of the week…
I’m a food nut…I really don’t care about what everybody else eats..
I don’t push my views on others…I hate 90% of all food..I’m just a picky eater.. I weigh exactly 5lbs more than I did in College…So I stay slim..
We have 4 passes for free dinner Sunday night.. Always try something different when It’s free.. Maybe I’ll try the lamb if they have it.
With the mint sauce
LOL
| 464 |
laZardo Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:12:50am |
re: #462 The Sanity Inspector
That’s right, rub it in with your exotic tropical fruit flavors! I’d love me a red-bean ice cream bar right about now…
You’d be surprised, that’s actually one of the two “regular” flavors in Slurpee machines here right now. >_> The other is Mountain Dew Blue, but I want something that doesn’t taste artificial. q;
| 465 |
jvic Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:13:10am |
re: #446 cliffster
I like that. “Partially not true” and “Mostly false”.
I can hardly wait for MSNBC’s analysis of the coming court challenges. “Partially not illegal” and “Mostly Constitutional”?
*** *** *** ***
Seriously, I expect this to get through the courts. Except that a) at the SOTU Obama and the Democrats went out of their way to harass the Justices in front of the entire country, and b) the Supreme Court reads the election returns.
| 466 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:14:05am |
re: #454 garhighway
Single parent + other relative does not equal two committed same gender parents.
I respectfully suggest there is NO study that demonstrates otherwise.
In the absence of such a study, believing that there is an inherent disadvantage to the children of a gay marriage is just that: a belief.
My belief, (that I freely label as such) is that if and when such a study occurs, it will find that the quality of upbringing of such children will be way more affected by the other demographic factors (race, class, education) than by the mixed- or same-gender status of the parents. To the point where hypothesizing an advantage to children of straight marriages will require so many qualifications that it will be meaningless, except as a window into the belief system of the proponent.
Fine. EVEN IF i agreed with you (i don’t - single parent + same gender relative is much more like two same-gender parents than comparing sets of parents across gender lines), it is not bigotry to say that we ought to subsidize the best known situation in the absence of a legion of data to the contrary.
You’re making a presumption in the face of data. I’m making a presumption riding a wave of data. Who’s being more reasonable here? And if all opposition to marriage equality bigoted…if so, how is my position bigoted when i’m the one surfing the wave?
The right is not the sole proprietor of blindness to data that doesn’t serve their purpose.
| 467 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:14:56am |
re: #463 HoosierHoops
I’m a food nut…I really don’t care about what everybody else eats..
I don’t push my views on others…I hate 90% of all food..I’m just a picky eater.. I weigh exactly 5lbs more than I did in College…So I stay slim..
We have 4 passes for free dinner Sunday night.. Always try something different when It’s free.. Maybe I’ll try the lamb if they have it.
With the mint sauce
LOL
mint sauce is gross. don’t say you weren’t warned!
| 469 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:15:34am |
re: #465 jvic
I really don’t think the Supreme Court will get political. Especially over something as petty as the SOTU jab. I’m going to put a poor decision on my legacy because the prez pissed me off?
| 470 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:15:41am |
re: #456 Aceofwhat?
than you need to read 40 years of studies rather than randomly wondering if, over decades, anyone has bothered to pass Probability Theory 101.
If your sociologist supervisor tells you about an interesting study they read, do you immediately ask them if they remembered to test for significance? No, you figure they couldn’t get published if they can’t get that right.
Forty years of studies? You mean those years since 1970 in which our world has changed beyond recognition?
Oh, and the first thing my supervisors taught me is to *never* take studies at face value, but instead to critically take them apart. Simply having a P value of 0.0000 whatever means jack if what is being compared in the study isn’t what you’re comparing at present. I could bore you to death on surrogate endpoints vs final endpoints.
| 471 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:15:51am |
re: #455 Kruk
And thereby reinforcing an existing and undeserved privilege based on pretty flaky data. You really consider gay marriage worth mentioning in the same breath as smoking? Please.
Flaky data? Do you have any idea how much data exists on this subject?
Apparently not…otherwise you wouldn’t have said that…
| 473 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:18:38am |
re: #470 Kruk
Forty years of studies? You mean those years since 1970 in which our world has changed beyond recognition?
Oh, and the first thing my supervisors taught me is to *never* take studies at face value, but instead to critically take them apart. Simply having a P value of 0.0000 whatever means jack if what is being compared in the study isn’t what you’re comparing at present. I could bore you to death on surrogate endpoints vs final endpoints.
Ugh. Whether or not it is an advantage to be raised by a male and female parent is not a factor that has changed since 1970. You’re saying i have much less to offer to my daughter now than my parents did to me? You’re saying this out loud?
You shouldn’t take studies at face value. You should read them. Go and read. It’ll take a looong time. There’s a lot to read.
| 474 |
lawhawk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:18:50am |
re: #463 HoosierHoops
You can skip the mint sauce and still be true to the lamb (chops are delicious). The perfect lamb chop is seasoned with rosemary and thyme, and a bit of au jus is more than enough. No need for the mint sauce, which buries the taste of the meat and doesn’t add anything to the dish.
| 475 |
Aceofwhat? Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:19:48am |
thanks for the fun discussion, all. kids calling. bbl.
| 476 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:20:09am |
| 477 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:20:57am |
re: #466 Aceofwhat?
Fine. EVEN IF i agreed with you (i don’t - single parent + same gender relative is much more like two same-gender parents than comparing sets of parents across gender lines), it is not bigotry to say that we ought to subsidize the best known situation in the absence of a legion of data to the contrary.
You’re making a presumption in the face of data. I’m making a presumption riding a wave of data. Who’s being more reasonable here? And if all opposition to marriage equality bigoted…if so, how is my position bigoted when i’m the one surfing the wave?
The right is not the sole proprietor of blindness to data that doesn’t serve their purpose.
Okay, we’re probably going to keep arguing this in circles. How about you provide me a few citations/links to these studies, and I’ll pick them apart. It’s good practice for my literature review.
And as for what is more logical, is it more logical to (a) remain neutral when you don’t have firm data either way, or (b) create a bias in our tax system/legal structure that may prove extremely unjust based on flawed data?
| 479 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:23:09am |
re: #468 MandyManners
I wonder how low the numbers would be if they were polled.
Actually, his poll numbers with Ramussen are better, for a wonder.
| 480 |
laZardo Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:24:04am |
re: #476 The Sanity Inspector
“Countries do not exist where I am from. The discovery of the Higgs boson led to limitless power, the elimination of poverty and Kit-Kats for everyone. It is a communist chocolate hellhole and I’m here to stop it ever happening.”
Perhaps if it were Butterfingers instead…
| 481 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:25:40am |
re: #473 Aceofwhat?
Ugh. Whether or not it is an advantage to be raised by a male and female parent is not a factor that has changed since 1970. You’re saying i have much less to offer to my daughter now than my parents did to me? You’re saying this out loud?
You shouldn’t take studies at face value. You should read them. Go and read. It’ll take a looong time. There’s a lot to read.
You’re claiming that in those 40 years, there haven’t been huge changes in the stigma vs the social support offered to single parents rather than two parent ones? The legal protection offered to gay couples now as to then?
As to forty years of studies: You’re the one claiming this mountain of evidence that applies directly to gay couples. I’m asking you to back that claim up. Provide the citation to some studies that’ll know my socks and make a believer of me. C’mon. You know you want to.
| 482 |
Feline Fearless Leader Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:26:32am |
re: #458 The Sanity Inspector
I suspect it was avian terrorists protesting the mistreatment of their kin. Possibly including some siblings of the plant’s previous victims.
//
| 483 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:26:49am |
| 484 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:27:31am |
re: #474 lawhawk
You can skip the mint sauce and still be true to the lamb (chops are delicious). The perfect lamb chop is seasoned with rosemary and thyme, and a bit of au jus is more than enough. No need for the mint sauce, which buries the taste of the meat and doesn’t add anything to the dish.
Thank you lawhawk! I won these 4 killer tickets for dinner Sunday night and row 10 tickets to the pacers sunday night.. I say lamb and a nice Napa Valley Merlot….
Happy Good Friday to you
| 485 |
Soap_Man Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:28:07am |
re: #449 Dark_Falcon
Just a caution: That poll was “all adults”, which is not a reliable indicator of votes in an off-year election. Polls that are more reliable will survey registered voters or likely voters.
re: #468 MandyManners
I wonder how low the numbers would be if they were polled.
I highly recommend using the RealClearPolitics.com average when you want to look at approval ratings. They average out all the major polling outlets. This not only adjusts for the polls that slant one way or the other, but also avoids wild swings you see in individual polls.
Anyway, they have him at 47.8 approve, 45.8 disapprove. This is slightly up since the HCR bill passed. The day before the bill passed, I believe his disapproval numbers were about a point below the approvals.
| 486 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:28:16am |
Another pirate mothership sent to the bottom:
| 487 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:28:17am |
| 489 |
jvic Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:28:53am |
re: #469 cliffster
I really don’t think the Supreme Court will get political. Especially over something as petty as the SOTU jab. I’m going to put a poor decision on my legacy because the prez pissed me off?
Well, I indicated that I expect this to make it through the courts. That having been said said:
The Supreme Court is political.
Perhaps you’re a bit optimistic about how people behave when they have lifetime employment contracts, especially in prestigious positions. I’m thinking about what I’ve seen and heard regarding distinguished tenured faculty at elite educational institutions. There’s also the Civil Service.
No, I don’t expect the judicial branch to give an obvious eff-u to the Democratic Party. But if the decision is a close one and public opinion continues to shift against Obama, intangibles might become disproportionate.
| 491 |
Soap_Man Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:29:12am |
re: #485 Soap_Man
I highly recommend using the RealClearPolitics.com average when you want to look at approval ratings. They average out all the major polling outlets. This not only adjusts for the polls that slant one way or the other, but also avoids wild swings you see in individual polls.
Anyway, they have him at 47.8 approve, 45.8 disapprove. This is slightly up since the HCR bill passed. The day before the bill passed, I believe his disapproval numbers were about a point
belowabove the approvals.
Fixed.
| 492 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:29:23am |
| 493 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:29:34am |
re: #486 Dark_Falcon
Another pirate mothership sent to the bottom:
Tear the roof (and the bow, and the stern, and the decks) off the mutha!
| 494 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:30:16am |
| 495 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:31:07am |
| 497 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:32:22am |
re: #466 Aceofwhat?
Fine. EVEN IF i agreed with you (i don’t - single parent + same gender relative is much more like two same-gender parents than comparing sets of parents across gender lines), it is not bigotry to say that we ought to subsidize the best known situation in the absence of a legion of data to the contrary.
You’re making a presumption in the face of data. I’m making a presumption riding a wave of data. Who’s being more reasonable here? And if all opposition to marriage equality bigoted…if so, how is my position bigoted when i’m the one surfing the wave?
The right is not the sole proprietor of blindness to data that doesn’t serve their purpose.
Please cite us to any study that compares outcomes for adoptive children of gay marriages with appropriately matched children of straight marriages. If there is such a study, with a decent sample size done by credible researchers, I will happily defer to its results.
Anything else is guessing, not riding a wave of imagined data.
| 498 |
Soap_Man Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:33:01am |
re: #495 Killgore Trout
Jack Cassell: Doctor Refuses To Treat Obama Supporters
What a dick.
Yeah, that’s pretty unethical.
| 499 |
avanti Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:33:55am |
re: #479 Dark_Falcon
Actually, his poll numbers with Ramussen are better, for a wonder.
Rasmussen was the rights go to pollster until they found the one CBS poll they liked better, they’ll be back.
| 500 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:35:26am |
I’ve been so busy this morning I almost forgot to tell everyone that my band’s new cd is out. I just got a copy last night. Still haven’t had time to listen to it.
| 502 |
avanti Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:36:02am |
re: #485 Soap_Man
I highly recommend using the RealClearPolitics.com average when you want to look at approval ratings. They average out all the major polling outlets. This not only adjusts for the polls that slant one way or the other, but also avoids wild swings you see in individual polls.
Anyway, they have him at 47.8 approve, 45.8 disapprove. This is slightly up since the HCR bill passed. The day before the bill passed, I believe his disapproval numbers were about a point below the approvals.
Excellent idea, but it’s not news to say “Obama polling numbers are flat or slightly improved” when you want “news”
| 503 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:36:02am |
FBI Investigating Extremist Group Letters Telling Governors To Leave Office
The FBI is warning police across the country that an anti-government group’s call to remove governors from office could provoke violence by others.A group that calls itself the Guardians of the free Republics wants to “restore America” by peacefully dismantling parts of the government, according to its Web site.
As of Wednesday, more than 30 governors had received letters saying if they don’t leave office within three days they will be removed, according to an internal intelligence note by the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security. The note was obtained by The Associated Press.
| 504 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:36:06am |
re: #500 Mad Al-Jaffee
I’ve been so busy this morning I almost forgot to tell everyone that my band’s new cd is out. I just got a copy last night. Still haven’t had time to listen to it.
I want a copy!
| 505 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:36:23am |
Federal employees and politicians will NOT have to take the same health care exchange coverage that will be required for all other Americans.
President Barack Obama has repeatedly stated that people who like their health insurance can keep it. However, that doesn’t apply to a small group of federal employees.
Currently, government employees and qualified retirees can get health insurance through the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), a “marketplace” with more than 250 plans, with at least 10 national fee-for-service plans. Government employees, including members of Congress, the president, vice president, cabinet members and White House staff all participate in FEHBP. That won’t change – except for members of Congress and their personal staffs. In 2014, they will instead have to enroll in the new insurance exchanges.
Some Republicans, led by Sens. Charles Grassley of Iowa and Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, argued that all members of Congress and staff should be subject to the same coverage that they set up for other Americans.
The provision has provoked confusion, sparked emotions and even caused the White House to announce that the president will voluntarily participate in the exchange, although he would not be required to do so by the new law. Walton Francis, a health economist and main author of “CHECKBOOK’s Guide to Health Plans for Federal Employees,” said the requirement will be controversial and may come up again for consideration: “My guess is the FEHBP exclusion for these members and their staff will probably not survive.” he said.
| 506 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:36:48am |
re: #504 HoosierHoops
I want a copy!
Come to our cd release party, May 9, just outside of Baltimore. :)
| 507 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:36:50am |
re: #498 Soap_Man
Yeah, that’s pretty unethical.
Heh. Dude, the Battle of Waterloo is over, and you lost. Deal.
| 508 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:37:25am |
re: #500 Mad Al-Jaffee
I’ve been so busy this morning I almost forgot to tell everyone that my band’s new cd is out. I just got a copy last night. Still haven’t had time to listen to it.
How was the big date?
| 509 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:37:49am |
re: #495 Killgore Trout
Jack Cassell: Doctor Refuses To Treat Obama Supporters
What a dick.
So is Alan Grayson. But I hope this doctor gets sanctioned for his actions. A doctor’s office is not the place for political harranges.
| 510 |
avanti Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:37:57am |
re: #488 MandyManners
Rasmussen has always been consistent, if a bit low compared to most other polls, but just watch the trend.
| 511 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:38:03am |
re: #508 The Sanity Inspector
How was the big date?
I’ll let you know after it happens. It’s tonight.
| 513 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:40:47am |
re: #502 avanti
Excellent idea, but it’s not news to say “Obama polling numbers are flat or slightly improved” when you want “news”
Typical, for both CBS and Obama haters. The search for a “story” often leads into unethical territory.
| 514 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:42:29am |
re: #506 Mad Al-Jaffee
Come to our cd release party, May 9, just outside of Baltimore. :)
It’s going to be May…My last May in the State of Indiana.. I’ll be at the Indy track almost every day..Look forward to the link…Hey I’ve got some stuff they I have recorded on my Strat…It really pretty much sucks…But I love music..I’ll buy a CD.
What do you think of Blind Alan Wilson? He was my hero when I was a kid..
And James Cotton of course…
| 515 |
Soap_Man Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:43:23am |
re: #502 avanti
Excellent idea, but it’s not news to say “Obama polling numbers are flat or slightly improved” when you want “news”
Indeed. Obama’s approvals—despite some minor fluxuations—have been basically flat since early February. But you’re right, that doesn’t make a very sexy headline.
| 516 |
Lidane Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:44:12am |
| 517 |
Stanley Sea Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:44:29am |
re: #495 Killgore Trout
Jack Cassell: Doctor Refuses To Treat Obama Supporters
What a dick.
“I’m not turning anybody away — that would be unethical,” Dr. Jack Cassell, 56, a Mount Dora urologist and a registered Republican opposed to the health plan, told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday. “But if they read the sign and turn the other way, so be it.”The sign reads: “If you voted for Obama … seek urologic care elsewhere. Changes to your healthcare begin right now, not in four years.”
So be it…
| 518 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:46:23am |
re: #503 Killgore Trout
FBI Investigating Extremist Group Letters Telling Governors To Leave Office
US Out of North America!
| 519 |
lawhawk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:46:24am |
re: #515 Soap_Man
It would be a news story that despite his nonstop attempts to get support for HCR, the polling shows no movement. That would suggest that all of his efforts aren’t exactly swaying people to come around to the purported benefits of this HCR package. That is newsworthy.
Why exactly aren’t people coming around to see the benefits of this HCR pacakge? Maybe because the benefits aren’t going to affect most people until 2013 at the earliest, while the tax implications are starting right off the bat - most notably with the restatements of income from big corporations who have to declare the tax implications of losing certain credits.
| 520 |
avanti Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:46:59am |
re: #513 Dark_Falcon
Typical, for both CBS and Obama haters. The search for a “story” often leads into unethical territory.
Nate Silver pointed out the days of steady 60% popularity for either sides POTUS died decades ago. I never cared for Bush’s policies, but his approval with his base stayed high even when he was in the 20’s overall. The more Obama does to move the agenda he ran on forward, the lower he’ll go among those that voted against that agenda.
| 522 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:49:46am |
| 524 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:49:50am |
re: #514 HoosierHoops
It’s going to be May…My last May in the State of Indiana.. I’ll be at the Indy track almost every day..Look forward to the link…Hey I’ve got some stuff they I have recorded on my Strat…It really pretty much sucks…But I love music..I’ll buy a CD.
What do you think of Blind Alan Wilson? He was my hero when I was a kid..
And James Cotton of course…
I’m not sure if the new cd is available online yet, but check bigdaddystallings.com.
Wilson was a great player, and he helped revive the career of Son House. Lots of players today still have no idea how he got one of the notes he did on “On The Road Again.” (he raised the pitch of a draw reed a half step.)
Cotton’s one of my fav living players.
| 525 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:50:03am |
Well, Al Gore must be in my area. It is SNOWING! We’re only about 700 feet above sea level where I am in eastern WA.
| 526 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:50:43am |
re: #523 MandyManners
I tend to ignore polls.
“I Lie To Pollsters” would make a good bumper sticker.
| 529 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:51:50am |
| 530 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:51:57am |
re: #495 Killgore Trout
Jack Cassell: Doctor Refuses To Treat Obama Supporters
What a dick.
What a jackass
| 531 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:52:45am |
re: #483 Dark_Falcon
Is he doing well at the Masters?
Masters is next week. I’m just getting warmed up
| 532 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:53:04am |
re: #519 lawhawk
It would be a news story that despite his nonstop attempts to get support for HCR, the polling shows no movement. That would suggest that all of his efforts aren’t exactly swaying people to come around to the purported benefits of this HCR package. That is newsworthy.
Why exactly aren’t people coming around to see the benefits of this HCR pacakge? Maybe because the benefits aren’t going to affect most people until 2013 at the earliest, while the tax implications are starting right off the bat - most notably with the restatements of income from big corporations who have to declare the tax implications of losing certain credits.
And that’s good. Big business will finally take the financial hits they deserve. I’ve been reading article about Verizon and John Deere and some others who are revising financial figures and these tax changes will even impact those employees that have those cushy retirement plans and other benefits. And the bottom line IS going to effect the pricing to customers. There is not batter way to level the playing field to have a bill that corrects the unfair advantages that employers have, employees have and consumers have in the market.
Cap and Trade should be next… let’s level out another 1/3 of the economy. If this keeps up, with in a couple of years, we will fairly all be in the same boat.
| 533 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:53:08am |
re: #526 The Sanity Inspector
“I Lie To Pollsters” would make a good bumper sticker.
Heh. When told of a bad poll result, one of our former Prime Ministers simply said “Bugger the pollsters!”
He won, too. :)
| 534 |
Stanley Sea Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:53:22am |
re: #531 cliffster
Masters is next week. I’m just getting warmed up
LOL you made me think it started.
| 535 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:53:31am |
re: #428 Aceofwhat?
and there are simply, unfortunately, far too many single-parent families for this to be a prejudicial affair. that is what i meant. i’m sure you can find a rural town where a few kids are ostracized because they’re from a single-parent family. you can also find schools where single parents are, unfortunately, the norm rather than the exception. the advantage persists. if it were cultural, it would vary by local culture.
I’m sorry, but this is not true. Talk to some single moms. There is definitely still a cultural bias against single-parent families.
and we are biologically quite different from apes.
We are apes, no, we’re not biologically different from apes.
Linguistics is not a biological difference. If you mean having a brain complex enough to handle uniquely human language, then sure, that’s a very significant difference. Mainly because it allows us to create things like ‘culture’ and imbue it with meaning and import.
In what manner did you want hetero couples to receive preferential treatment, anyway?
| 536 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:53:39am |
re: #518 garhighway
US Out of North America!
I just read their website. That statement comes pretty close to what they’re all about. Though it’s more like “The US out of the US!”
Seems like they’re trying declaring some sort of sovereignty then setting up “sovereign” grand juries and then they going to start ruling and declaring stuff.
| 537 |
laZardo Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:54:07am |
re: #525 pingjockey
Well, Al Gore must be in my area. It is SNOWING! We’re only about 700 feet above sea level where I am in eastern WA.
| 538 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:54:22am |
re: #524 Mad Al-Jaffee
I’m not sure if the new cd is available online yet, but check [Link: www.bigdaddystallings.com…]
Wilson was a great player, and he helped revive the career of Son House. Lots of players today still have no idea how he got one of the notes he did on “On The Road Again.” (he raised the pitch of a draw reed a half step.)
Cotton’s one of my fav living players.
Wow..Just Wow..I need to see you guys some time..
Dang! tight blues!
| 539 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:54:53am |
| 541 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:55:12am |
re: #536 Jadespring
I just read their website. That statement comes pretty close to what they’re all about. Though it’s more like “The US out of the US!”
Seems like they’re trying declaring some sort of sovereignty then setting up “sovereign” grand juries and then they going to start ruling and declaring stuff.
It will be fun to see what happens to them as they go down that road.
| 542 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:56:03am |
| 543 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:56:25am |
re: #536 Jadespring
I just read their website. That statement comes pretty close to what they’re all about. Though it’s more like “The US out of the US!”
Seems like they’re trying declaring some sort of sovereignty then setting up “sovereign” grand juries and then they going to start ruling and declaring stuff.
One of the things that really bugged me about some of these movements (aside from the general craziness, that is.) They consider themselves “Sovereign Citizens”, while consigning non-whites to being “14th Amendment Citizens”. Ugh.
| 544 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:56:40am |
re: #438 HoosierHoops
Wow…Never heard of that! Wait till I share that with Veggie here..
We are food nuts…
You may not believe this.. I have never had lamb in my life…
Never once…I’m putting it on my bucket list someday..Never sounded good to me..
I like lamb. Some people don’t. I’d recommend rack of lamb as an introduction, with most of the external fat trimmed off; most of the flavor is in the fat, so this tones down the ‘lamby’ taste. Grill to medium rare, or about 125 F.
Better yet, get someone else to order it in a restaurant, and try some of theirs before you blow a lot of dough on something you may not care for.
| 545 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:56:50am |
re: #537 laZardo
Ha. I’d like to see it snow in Manila. What a mess. The craziest road trip I ever took was from Manila Int’l Airport to Subic Bay. I have never seen traffic like that!
| 546 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:57:45am |
re: #538 HoosierHoops
Thanks! So far the only plans we have to get out of Maryland/DC anytime soon are some gigs in VA and one in PA.
| 547 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:57:52am |
re: #544 SixDegrees
I like lamb. Some people don’t. I’d recommend rack of lamb as an introduction, with most of the external fat trimmed off; most of the flavor is in the fat, so this tones down the ‘lamby’ taste. Grill to medium rare, or about 125 F.
Better yet, get someone else to order it in a restaurant, and try some of theirs before you blow a lot of dough on something you may not care for.
We don’t eat much lamb around here at all, but of course, we had it for Passover… lot’s of it… the girlfriend make LOTS OF IT because she know who much I like it… I had leftovers…
and yes, MINT JELLY RULES.
| 548 |
lawhawk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:57:55am |
re: #539 The Sanity Inspector
That Lebanese sorcerer won’t be beheaded by the Saudis today, after all.
Bet he didn’t see that coming…
| 549 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:58:03am |
Tea Partiers won’t do anything to keep out white nationalists but…..
Tax Day ‘war’? Tea Partiers promise to meet anarchists with firepower
Infoshop outlines “three options” for challenging the Tea Party movement: Organizing counter-protests on Tax Day; handing out leaflets at Tea Party events to convince some of them to change their views; and “ignoring the Tea Party movement,” which it suggests is “the worst option.”Nowhere in that list is any suggestion of violence — or “war,” as some bloggers would have it — but that didn’t stop a number of commenters at Gateway Pundit from promising to come to the protests armed.
“I’ll wear my hard hat and carry my ‘little friend’ under a jacket,” promises commenter “Tom Mannis,” in the first response to the Gateway Pundit article.
“Be aware anarchists, you WILL be HUGELY outnumbered,” writes “Rick Mercer” at Fox Nation. “You won’t have the numbers you like to help yourself feel anonymous. And some of us DO legally carry concealed weapons to protect our rights. MAKE MY DAY, PUNK!”
For its part, the anarchist side seems to be taking a different tack.
“Bring your video cameras to every single tea party rally you may attend in the future, with extra batteries and more memory than you think you need,” writes blogger “Russ” at The Resistance. “Don’t…fight…back. If they yell, yell back. If they rant, rant back. If they push or punch…make sure it was on tape, smile and tell them they’re on Tea Party Camera.”
| 550 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:58:48am |
re: #544 SixDegrees
Lamb sliders are another good way of introducing people to the taste.
This is a good recipe:
This one is less spicy, if that’s a barrier for people:
| 551 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 8:59:16am |
re: #547 Walter L. Newton
We don’t eat much lamb around here at all, but of course, we had it for Passover… lot’s of it… the girlfriend make LOTS OF IT because she know who much I like it… I had leftovers…
and yes, MINT JELLY RULES.
I like it with horseradish. I think horseradish might be my favorite part of Passover.
| 552 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:01:11am |
| 553 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:01:12am |
re: #549 Killgore Trout
That has the potential for real ugliness. I remember when the anarchists showed up in Seattle for the WTO. Strange though, the anarchists didn’t look under fed or oppressed at all. Mostly white, college age kids. Wonder who they thought they were helping?
| 554 |
webevintage Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:01:16am |
I guess you can put this in the “unintended consequence of Republicans being dicks” file:
thinkprogress.org
and CNN’s newest employee on the radio declaring he will pull his wife’s shotgun on any census worker who comes to his front door:
thinkprogress.org
| 555 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:01:29am |
re: #548 lawhawk
Bet he didn’t see that coming…
He’s obviously using his sorcerer’s powers to befuddle his captors…
| 556 |
Van Helsing Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:01:50am |
re: #519 lawhawk
most notably with the restatements of income from big corporations who have to declare the tax implications of losing certain credits.
What amazes me is that it seems that no one in congress or the administration knew that the corporations would have to re-file with the SEC as soon as they figured out the consequences.
Are they that ignorant of the regulations that they generate?
| 557 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:02:18am |
re: #551 Mad Al-Jaffee
Mmm— reminded me of another awesome lamb flavor combo.
lamb chops with apricot horseradish sauce
I often make it an orange-pear sauce rather than apricot.
| 558 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:02:21am |
re: #551 Mad Al-Jaffee
The only time I ever had lamb was in the UAE. It came in a pita like thing called a schwarma(sp). I think. Tasty.
| 559 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:02:27am |
re: #549 Killgore Trout
Tea Partiers won’t do anything to keep out white nationalists but…
Tax Day ‘war’? Tea Partiers promise to meet anarchists with firepower
Cripes. I admire the courage of the counter-protesters, but I can’t help worrying this is going to turn ugly. All it takes is one person to lose it, and it could be a tragedy.
| 560 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:02:39am |
re: #551 Mad Al-Jaffee
I like it with horseradish. I think horseradish might be my favorite part of Passover.
Never had it with horseradish; that sounds interesting.
I usually squeeze a little lemon juice over it.
| 562 |
albusteve Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:03:51am |
re: #546 Mad Al-Jaffee
Thanks! So far the only plans we have to get out of Maryland/DC anytime soon are some gigs in VA and one in PA.
when you get a booking at the State Theater in Falls Church, you’ll have hit the bigtime!….love that joint
| 563 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:03:56am |
Over the years, I’ve reached the point where I can hardly bear to read the preamble of proposed legislation. I don’t care what you think this thing is going to do. What I care about is: What are you rewarding, and what are you punishing? Because you’re going to get more of what you’re rewarding and less of what you’re punishing.
— Thomas Sowell
| 564 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:04:28am |
re: #558 pingjockey
The only time I ever had lamb was in the UAE. It came in a pita like thing called a schwarma(sp). I think. Tasty.
Love those. And gyros and doner kabobs.
| 565 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:05:24am |
re: #559 Kruk
From what I’ve seen the anarchists aren’t counter protestors. They just show up and disrupt stuff, left and right.
| 566 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:05:53am |
It’s noon on Good Friday…A real Holy moment in history..
What have we learned?
If you claim to be the Son God.. Heal people..go against major Religions.. Teach non violence and love for your Brother..
This world will f*ck you up..
They will hang you like a rabid dog..Don’t mess with religion…They will kill you..
‘Father forgive them..For they know not what they do.’
2000 years later..Mankind still hasn’t a clue..
It’s sad really….Thank God for Easter..
| 567 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:06:01am |
re: #562 albusteve
when you get a booking at the State Theater in Falls Church, you’ll have hit the bigtime!…love that joint
We still haven’t played there, or Wolf Trap, Rams Head or the Birchmere. Those are the big local venues everyone wants to play. I have played the Kennedy Center, but not with this band.
| 568 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:06:13am |
re: #563 The Sanity Inspector
My favorite government reform would still be that every bill contain a metric for success and a time period wherein that metric will be tested.
| 569 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:06:40am |
re: #564 Mad Al-Jaffee
Ohh, forgot about gyros. We used to send out for dinner when I was teaching nights at the ASW base in San Diego for those. Now I live in the sticks without even a decent deli! :(
| 570 |
Van Helsing Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:06:42am |
re: #565 pingjockey
From what I’ve seen the anarchists aren’t counter protestors. They just show up and disrupt stuff, left and right.
Spoiled brat assholes, generally.
| 571 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:07:29am |
re: #569 pingjockey
Ohh, forgot about gyros. We used to send out for dinner when I was teaching nights at the ASW base in San Diego for those. Now I live in the sticks without even a decent deli! :(
There’s a Greek place close to me with great gyros and souvlaki. But I really miss the kebabs I ate in Europe.
| 572 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:08:08am |
The grand delusion of contemporary liberals is that they have both the right and the ability to move their fellow creatures around like blocks of wood — and that the end results will be no different than if people had voluntarily chosen the same actions.
- Thomas Sowell
| 573 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:08:08am |
re: #566 HoosierHoops
Hey Hoops, have you ever read J.P. Donleavy? I think he’s a writer you could really get into. If you’re of a mind to, I recommend A Singular Man or The Destinies of Darcy Dancer, Gentleman.
| 575 |
albusteve Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:08:33am |
re: #567 Mad Al-Jaffee
We still haven’t played there, or Wolf Trap, Rams Head or the Birchmere. Those are the big local venues everyone wants to play. I have played the Kennedy Center, but not with this band.
been to all those venues, the Birch is cool, but the State is my favorite…I have alot of fond memories around that area….seen some monster Little Feat shows at the State….listening to Blues Cowboy here…very tasty bro
| 576 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:08:41am |
re: #570 Van Helsing
Seem to be. Just like the spring break kids when I was stationed in Fla. Got momie and daddies credit card and just run amok. I never even saw squids pull some of the shit they did!
| 577 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:09:01am |
re: #554 webevintage
I guess you can put this in the “unintended consequence of Republicans being dicks” file:
[Link: thinkprogress.org…]and CNN’s newest employee on the radio declaring he will pull his wife’s shotgun on any census worker who comes to his front door:
[Link: thinkprogress.org…]
Okay, this is something I never get. As I understand it, the census affects (among other things) the number of congressional districts and presidential electoral college votes a state gets. So if people from the Red States don’t fill out the forms, isn’t it going to hurt them more than anyone else? That’s pretty much the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
| 578 |
Kragar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:09:08am |
How Hamas Sabotages the Gaza Charities
Reports are coming from Gaza that Hamas militants forced the Palestine Bank to allow the newly elected chairman of “Friends of the Patient Society”, a Gaza charitable organization that provides medical services, to withdraw $270,000. The bank’s manager was held at gunpoint as he counted the money. In response, the Palestine Bank has closed all of its branches in Gaza.
Hamas recently imposed a new board of directors on Friends of the Patient and issued a demand for the organizations funds. Hamas officials claim they are only enforcing the law as adjudicated by a Gaza judge. This episode is the latest in Hamas efforts to tighten its grip on NGOs in Gaza in order to bend them to the will of Hamas supporters. This started two years ago when Hamas became the de facto government in Gaza. As the Israeli blockade continues, more NGOs have become active in Gaza, offering humanitarian aid to relieve the poverty and the devastation in the region.
| 580 |
albusteve Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:09:40am |
re: #575 albusteve
been to all those venues, the Birch is cool, but the State is my favorite…I have alot of fond memories around that area…seen some monster Little Feat shows at the State…listening to Blues Cowboy here…very tasty bro
the Barns would be the perfect venue for you guys
| 581 |
Van Helsing Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:10:02am |
re: #532 Walter L. Newton
And the bottom line IS going to effect the pricing to customers.
That’s the best way to raise taxes on everyone while covering it as ‘closing loopholes for the evil corporations’.
And I can’t say that I would disagree with it in most cases.
Of course, the tax income generated will be offset by credits to the current ‘non-evil corporation’ du jour…
And the beat goes on…
| 582 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:10:09am |
re: #575 albusteve
been to all those venues, the Birch is cool, but the State is my favorite…I have alot of fond memories around that area…seen some monster Little Feat shows at the State…listening to Blues Cowboy here…very tasty bro
I’ve only been to Birchmere and State a couple of times. Birchmere is talking about moving to or opening a second venue very close to home for me.
We’ve also played Carter Barron Ampitheatre and the Recher Theater (Towson), plus Artscape (big festival in Baltimore) twice.
| 583 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:10:23am |
re: #541 garhighway
Found something on craigslist of all places. I’m going to predict that it won’t go well. orangecounty.craigslist.org
Wednesday, I had the extreme pleasure, along with regan dwayne, of signing an order to the men and women who occupy the office of Governor of each of the incorporated States of the United States Federal Corporation, and a second order to the armed forces of the United States of America, restoring lawful governance of, by and for the sovereign People. What a tremendous pleasure to finally be in position to take back our country. The deed is done.
Yesterday, a day that will live in history, all such office holders were served with a warrant arresting their bonds, thus the de facto office of Governor has been re-absorbed into its de jure counterpart as an operation of law, and the occupants thereof are operating under the provisional de jure bond of the sovereign People. Most of the governors have been alerted to expect service.
Also yesterday, the armed force were served notice of the return of lawful sovereign (“civilian”) authority. And that the People have assembled as fifty well-regulated militias and reinhabited de jure grand juries in all American republics.
As of Monday, the presumption of authority by private corporate actors impersonating public officials under color of law is pre-empted by lawful “civilian” authority, effectively ending the era of illicit corporations posing as legitimate governments. Finally, the children are free.
Upon delivery, all parties will have been informed that the sovereign People have EXPRESSLY accepted their respective state constitutions and the Constitution for the United States of America, circa 1787, as BINDING CONTRACTS upon them.They will be under orders to end state-sponsored terrorism against members of the sovereign People. They will be required to provide sovereign ID and passports. The governors have mere days to subscribe the new oath of office. They have been assured that the People do not intend to trespass on the rights of others to elect subject-class citizenship, thus ensuring a peaceful and non-violent transition. Our military public servants have been instructed to extend every reasonable effort to encourage repentance and forgiveness.
In light of concerns by the members of the De jure Grand Juries, and after discussions with some of the Elders, Tom assumed the role of lead contact for the armed forces and I had the honor of assuming the role of lead contact for the governors, Secretaries of State and Attorneys general for all of the republics. These were natural positions for both of us, and for which the Lord has groomed us with the richness of our lives’ experiences.
Rest assured, that when I am contacted by our public servants, I will undertake all necessary measures to ensure they comply with the People’s orders AS I WROTE THEM, not some backroom political perversion thereof, to cease the bogus prosecutions, provide sovereign ID and passports (beginning with the jurors whose information I have in my possession), adjust the crime databases to reflect sovereign immunity for those jurors, and assist me in emptying the prisons of political prisoners beginning with the families and friends of those jurors, and those “convicted” of tax-related “crimes.” It will be my highest duty to work closely with the Attorneys General to establish the criteria for assembling the lists of political prisoners per the orders. There will be no lawyerly dancing on these matters.
Bolded for my favourite part.
| 584 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:10:28am |
re: #577 Kruk
I saw that. Rather moronic. I didn’t feel the census was that intrusive. IMO.
| 586 |
The Sanity Inspector Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:10:59am |
re: #566 HoosierHoops
It’s noon on Good Friday…A real Holy moment in history..
What have we learned?
If you claim to be the Son God.. Heal people..go against major Religions.. Teach non violence and love for your Brother..
This world will f*ck you up..
They will hang you like a rabid dog..Don’t mess with religion…They will kill you..
‘Father forgive them..For they know not what they do.’
2000 years later..Mankind still hasn’t a clue..
It’s sad really…Thank God for Easter..
Romantic love is blind to everything except what is lovable and lovely, but Christ’s love sees us with terrible clarity and sees us whole. Christ’s love so wishes our joy that it is ruthless against everything in us that diminishes our joy. The worst sentence Love can pass is that we behold the suffering which Love has endured for our sake, and that is also our acquittal. The justice and mercy of the judge are ultimately one.
— Frederick Buechner
| 587 |
Kragar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:11:40am |
re: #570 Van Helsing
Spoiled brat assholes, generally.
Having every Rage Against the Machine and Bob Marley album doesn’t make someone a rebel or political. Bunch of assholes 99.9% of the time.
| 588 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:11:41am |
re: #584 pingjockey
I saw that. Rather moronic. I didn’t feel the census was that intrusive. IMO.
Dude, it took me like, 20 seconds to fill that thing out!!
/
| 589 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:11:43am |
re: #583 Jadespring
That’s some crazy talk. This must be an, ah, exciting time to be part of the FBI.
| 590 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:12:46am |
re: #583 Jadespring
Egotistical maniac comes to mind. Also, idiot, moron, jackass and stupidity beyond the call.
| 591 |
Kragar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:13:21am |
re: #588 Cannadian Club Akbar
Dude, it took me like, 20 seconds to fill that thing out!!
/
20 SECONDS OF SOCIALIST OPPRESSION!
| 592 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:13:35am |
re: #577 Kruk
Okay, this is something I never get. As I understand it, the census affects (among other things) the number of congressional districts and presidential electoral college votes a state gets. So if people from the Red States don’t fill out the forms, isn’t it going to hurt them more than anyone else? That’s pretty much the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Has it ever occurred to you that there is non-partisan agreements developing on both sides of the political spectrum? Is it possible that Obama and his policies are not the best thing since sliced bread any more than the wacky religious right doesn’t really have their finger on the pulse of conservative America.
Maybe you should start looking closely at ALL of our elected leaders and decide if they really CARE anything about you. Because they don’t. The system has become a breeding ground for kleptocrats and plutocrats, and guess what bunky, you don’t get a piece of the pie.
Wise up.
| 593 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:14:00am |
re: #587 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I’ve known a few anarchists who I could respect intellectually. They were also not the ones who were confrontational with law enforcement, etc.
Peter Maurin is a pretty interesting respectable anarchist figure.
| 594 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:14:51am |
re: #581 Van Helsing
That’s the best way to raise taxes on everyone while covering it as ‘closing loopholes for the evil corporations’.
And I can’t say that I would disagree with it in most cases.
Of course, the tax income generated will be offset by credits to the current ‘non-evil corporation’ du jour…
And the beat goes on…
Enjoy. I’m not interested on what’s on the menu.
| 595 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:14:56am |
re: #589 Obdicut
That’s some crazy talk. This must be an, ah, exciting time to be part of the FBI.
No kidding….
Anyways I also found the web sign up to become one of these jurors or a ranger or part of the posse. So in case anyone is worried and doesn’t want to get put on the black list and/or become a political prisoner just ask and I’ll post it. ;)
| 596 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:15:24am |
re: #589 Obdicut
Interesting as in the Chinese curse. I just hope the FBI/ATF/DHS all have their shit together and are coordinating intel.
| 597 |
albusteve Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:16:34am |
re: #582 Mad Al-Jaffee
I’ve only been to Birchmere and State a couple of times. Birchmere is talking about moving to or opening a second venue very close to home for me.
We’ve also played Carter Barron Ampitheatre and the Recher Theater (Towson), plus Artscape (big festival in Baltimore) twice.
MOVE the Birchmere?….unpossible…have to check that out with my homeys…that is a really nice club…never spent much time in Balti, tourist stuff and not familiar with those other places…I used to do alot of clubbing
| 598 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:16:41am |
Holy shit storm! It is snowing like hell outside!
| 599 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:17:44am |
re: #591 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
20 SECONDS OF SOCIALIST OPPRESSION!
LOL
When I opened the Census i freaked out! It was a huge fold out form..
But then it realized all those extra questions were for dependents…
It took me about 1 1/2 minutes to complete..It could have been much worse folks.. I worked for the Government for 20 years.. I know full well what might have been..
/
| 600 |
Kragar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:17:48am |
re: #593 Obdicut
I’ve known a few anarchists who I could respect intellectually. They were also not the ones who were confrontational with law enforcement, etc.
Peter Maurin is a pretty interesting respectable anarchist figure.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
Of course, it comes down to 99% of anarachists making the other 1% look bad.
| 601 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:18:16am |
Man arrested at Large Hadron Collider claims he’s from the future
A would-be saboteur arrested today at the Large Hadron Collider in Switzerland made the bizarre claim that he was from the future. Eloi Cole, a strangely dressed young man, said that he had travelled back in time to prevent the LHC from destroying the world.
….
Police said Mr Cole, who was wearing a bow tie and rather too much tweed for his age, would not reveal his country of origin. “Countries do not exist where I am from. The discovery of the Higgs boson led to limitless power, the elimination of poverty and Kit-Kats for everyone. It is a communist chocolate hellhole and I’m here to stop it ever happening.”
Lol
| 602 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:18:55am |
re: #600 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Yeah. And Maurin would have a lot of fucking words for the tools that call themselves anarchists these days.
| 603 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:19:00am |
re: #592 Walter L. Newton
Has it ever occurred to you that there is non-partisan agreements developing on both sides of the political spectrum? Is it possible that Obama and his policies are not the best thing since sliced bread any more than the wacky religious right doesn’t really have their finger on the pulse of conservative America.
Maybe you should start looking closely at ALL of our elected leaders and decide if they really CARE anything about you. Because they don’t. The system has become a breeding ground for kleptocrats and plutocrats, and guess what bunky, you don’t get a piece of the pie.
Wise up.
Okay, let’s just say that this is happening on both sides. (I suspect not, but I’ll go with it for the sake of argument.) By refusing to be counted in the census, you’re still taking power away from your state in future elections. If you think Washington is out of touch, and either needs to be changed or devolve power, you’re making it less likely that you’ll be able to help make that happen. Seems a bit counter-productive.
| 604 |
Van Helsing Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:19:12am |
re: #594 Walter L. Newton
I’m mostly in agreement with you Walter. I’m not trying to bait you or anything else.
However, as sure as the sun rises each morn, the tax breaks taken from one will end up with another.
| 605 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:19:26am |
re: #599 HoosierHoops
IIRC. didn’t the 2000 census ask how many toilets you had and some other goofy stuff?
| 606 |
Jadespring Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:19:26am |
re: #590 pingjockey
Egotistical maniac comes to mind. Also, idiot, moron, jackass and stupidity beyond the call.
Surely. I guess the question for the FBI is how many others out there are following this guy and whether his talk about having militias on his side yadda yadda is blather or indications of something more going on then idiotic internet babbling.
| 607 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:19:43am |
re: #601 Killgore Trout
Man arrested at Large Hadron Collider claims he’s from the future
Lol
That is why I don’t trust people in bow ties. I’m anti-bowtie. Heh.
| 609 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:20:19am |
re: #601 Killgore Trout
Man arrested at Large Hadron Collider claims he’s from the future
Lol
There is only one true test to see if a man is from the future.. And it works every time..
What are the winning lotto numbers?
End of story.
| 610 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:20:30am |
re: #601 Killgore Trout
Man arrested at Large Hadron Collider claims he’s from the future
Lol
Heh. I’m guessing whoever wrote that was an HG Wells fan.
| 611 |
jaunte Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:20:31am |
re: #601 Killgore Trout
The ending bit was both odd and funny:
Mr Cole was taken to a secure mental health facility in Geneva but later disappeared from his cell. Police are baffled, but not that bothered.
| 612 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:20:52am |
re: #606 Jadespring
Yep. They have to seperate the wolves from the sheep. With the intertubes that is going to take some sifting.
| 613 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:21:07am |
re: #597 albusteve
Yer right. They want to open a second venue:
That was three years ago. With today’s economy, plans have probably been delayed.
| 614 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:21:14am |
re: #603 Kruk
Okay, let’s just say that this is happening on both sides. (I suspect not, but I’ll go with it for the sake of argument.) By refusing to be counted in the census, you’re still taking power away from your state in future elections. If you think Washington is out of touch, and either needs to be changed or devolve power, you’re making it less likely that you’ll be able to help make that happen. Seems a bit counter-productive.
You live in a city? You live in a big urban corridor? Maybe you need to take a look at how both the right and left looks at government intrusion in places like the west, southwest, mid west.
The “flyover” people do matter.
| 616 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:22:44am |
re: #615 MandyManners
rather too much tweed for his age
What’s the hatred for tweed?
Find out on my twidder feed.
| 617 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:23:17am |
re: #611 jaunte
I think that’s a 12 Monkeys reference.
| 618 |
albusteve Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:24:57am |
re: #613 Mad Al-Jaffee
Yer right. They want to open a second venue:
[Link: www.gazette.net…]
That was three years ago. With today’s economy, plans have probably been delayed.
$8-10m!….that’s quite a saloon….the B3 sounds sweet….you guys are pretty friggin good….backup singers!, whoa!
| 619 |
Kruk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:25:24am |
re: #614 Walter L. Newton
You live in a city? You live in a big urban corridor? Maybe you need to take a look at how both the right and left looks at government intrusion in places like the west, southwest, mid west.
The “flyover” people do matter.
And they’ll matter less if they’re under-counted in the census. Government will never go away if you ignore it. It’s much better to have your hands on the reins, and at least some control over its directions.
| 620 |
lawhawk Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:25:56am |
re: #615 MandyManners
I guess someone is a Dalek fan and/or would rather not see the 11th Doctor be attired in tweed when he’s appearing as a 20-something. I personally prefer my Doctors to have long colorful scarves, or are nattily dressed and have a passing fancy as a Death Eater in Voldemort’s service.
| 621 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:26:00am |
re: #618 albusteve
$8-10m!…that’s quite a saloon…the B3 sounds sweet…you guys are pretty friggin good…backup singers!, whoa!
Thanks again. We’re a 7 piece band live, so no keys or backup singers. At least not yet.
| 622 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:26:28am |
re: #614 Walter L. Newton
The “flyover” people do matter.
They sure do. To the point where they get more representation per capita than do the people in the industrialized states and receive more federal money than they contribute.
| 623 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:26:43am |
re: #619 Kruk
And they’ll matter less if they’re under-counted in the census. Government will never go away if you ignore it. It’s much better to have your hands on the reins, and at least some control over its directions.
You have no control… it’s an illusion. You seem to want to ignore that fact. Have fun… can you sing “rose colored glasses?”
| 624 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:26:45am |
re: #605 pingjockey
IIRC. didn’t the 2000 census ask how many toilets you had and some other goofy stuff?
Sorry..I didn’t take that Census..
I was traveling a lot that year..Who knows what the wife filled out…And I didn’t get one in 1990 cause I was in a hotel room at Pearl Harbor working for the man..
I think..This my first census…Weird huh?
| 625 |
Killgore Trout Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:27:13am |
ERICKSON: This is crazy. What gives the Commerce Department the right to ask me how often I flush my toilet? Or about going to work? I’m not filling out this form. I dare them to try and come throw me in jail. I dare them to. Pull out my wife’s shotgun and see how that little ACS twerp likes being scared at the door. They’re not going on my property. They can’t do that. They don’t have the legal right, and yet they’re trying.
| 626 |
Walter L. Newton Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:27:15am |
re: #622 garhighway
They sure do. To the point where they get more representation per capita than do the people in the industrialized states and receive more federal money than they contribute.
Right and left.
| 627 |
Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:27:31am |
re: #620 lawhawk
The reference was to Wells’s The Time Machine. The guy’s first name is Eloi.
| 628 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:28:19am |
re: #624 HoosierHoops
Only my second. Was in the navy fron ‘77 to ‘97 and never got a form, ever. I guess they don’t count the military?!
| 629 |
keloyd Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:29:13am |
re: #620 lawhawk
I guess someone is a Dalek fan and/or would rather not see the 11th Doctor be attired in tweed when he’s appearing as a 20-something. I personally prefer my Doctors to have long colorful scarves, or are nattily dressed and have a passing fancy as a Death Eater in Voldemort’s service.
Your kung fu is strong, and Dudley Dursley’s actor’s granfather was Doctor #2.
| 630 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:30:01am |
re: #628 pingjockey
Only my second. Was in the navy fron ‘77 to ‘97 and never got a form, ever. I guess they don’t count the military?!
Ever Visit MINSY?
| 631 |
cliffster Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:30:01am |
Funniest shit I’ve seen in a long time
| 633 |
albusteve Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:30:32am |
re: #621 Mad Al-Jaffee
Thanks again. We’re a 7 piece band live, so no keys or backup singers. At least not yet.
I’ll tell you…I’m listening to your page and I am very impressed, every song sounds different…talking blues, different riffs, some gospel, ballad like thing, excellent paying and arrangements…very very nice….I’d go see your show in a heartbeat….and I’m copping the CD
| 635 |
SixDegrees Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:30:45am |
re: #619 Kruk
And they’ll matter less if they’re under-counted in the census. Government will never go away if you ignore it. It’s much better to have your hands on the reins, and at least some control over its directions.
Actually, I haven’t heard any of the census cranks complaining about being counted; they simply refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of all the other questions asked on the form. I’ve yet to hear any of them attempting to not be counted at all. The Constitution, after all, clearly demands an enumeration of the populace, and for the most part opponent’s arguments are based on the claim that, since no other information is called for, requests for it are somehow unconstitutional.
They seem to have missed the other parts of the Constitution granting Congress the ability to pass new laws - including those demanding the collection of such information. But the point is that the opposition is generally OK with being counted; they just don’t care for anything beyond that being asked.
| 636 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:32:02am |
re: #634 pingjockey
What is MINSY?
Mare Island Naval Shipyard.. I worked as a Nuke there after College for 20 years
| 637 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:33:30am |
re: #633 albusteve
I’ll tell you…I’m listening to your page and I am very impressed, every song sounds different…talking blues, different riffs, some gospel, ballad like thing, excellent paying and arrangements…very very nice…I’d go see your show in a heartbeat…and I’m copping the CD
That’s why were the “Blues Evolution Band” (kind of ironic name since half the band is very Christian :). Charles wants to mix it up and take the Blues to new places.
| 638 |
albusteve Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:35:18am |
re: #637 Mad Al-Jaffee
That’s why were the “Blues Evolution Band” (kind of ironic name since half the band is very Christian :). Charles wants to mix it up and take the Blues to new places.
Charles should put you guys up on a music thread
| 639 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:36:02am |
re: #638 albusteve
Charles should put you guys up on a music thread
I agree…Those guys are really good
| 640 |
claire Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:36:52am |
| 641 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:37:07am |
re: #636 HoosierHoops
Nope. Been to San Francisco for a port visit but that’s it. Have you noticed Myth Busters uses a lot of the abandoned navy stuff around the Bay for their experiments?
| 642 |
avanti Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:37:51am |
re: #620 lawhawk
I guess someone is a Dalek fan and/or would rather not see the 11th Doctor be attired in tweed when he’s appearing as a 20-something. I personally prefer my Doctors to have long colorful scarves, or are nattily dressed and have a passing fancy as a Death Eater in Voldemort’s service.
The new companion is easy on the eyes though.
| 643 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:39:31am |
re: #638 albusteve
Charles should put you guys up on a music thread
I would love that, but I think the only Blues artist he’s ever heard is Joe Bonamaso. :)
| 644 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:39:36am |
re: #642 avanti
I liked the little blond in the first year. Used to watch Dr, Who on PBS in San Diego.
| 645 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:40:29am |
re: #644 pingjockey
The old Dr. Who before scifi channel started running the new version.
| 646 |
jvic Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:44:14am |
re: #522 garhighway
re: #496 MandyMannersSNIP
Breyer’s right. It’s a stupid argument.
garhighway, I’m with you regarding the extracted paragraph. It’s the following stuff that gives me pause:
“If I see something written by a man or a woman who has a job like mine in another country, and who is interpreting a document somewhat like mine and who in fact has a problem in front of the court somewhat like mine, why can’t I read it, see what they’ve done? I might learn something,” Breyer said.“We understand that this is the American Constitution, but why can’t I read it? There are similar things,” he added. “I do read it, and if I read it, why don’t I just refer to that fact? I know it isn’t binding, so what’s the problem? That’s my view.”
…
“From a legal point of view, I don’t think it’s overwhelmingly important,” Breyer said. “If some people don’t want to read foreign opinions, fine, don’t read them. If you want to, fine. If you want to refer to them, fine.” [boldface mine—jvic]
I have no problem with Breyer reading foreign jurisprudence. When he cites it, he is stepping on a slippery slope that, he assures us, is not steep enough to worry about. Uh huh. Yeah sure.
After all, when we have an indispensably smart guy like Breyer interpreting American the law, it’s only natural that he’d check with the indispensably smart people in other countries, right? /
(I tried to keep this comment more or less civil. My actual reaction is a good deal more vehement than what I typed.)
| 647 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:45:53am |
re: #641 pingjockey
Nope. Been to San Francisco for a port visit but that’s it. Have you noticed Myth Busters uses a lot of the abandoned navy stuff around the Bay for their experiments?
Lot’s of stuff in the Bay Area.. Alameda Naval station was full of stuff..
We were TDY there in 1982 working on the Reactors of the Enterprise when I drove my wife down from Napa..About a 1 1/2 hour drive.. She was 8 months preggie but what the heck.. I had a place at the Corral reef on the beach…Come spend the weekend…She went into labor at I drove to Merritt Hospital in Oakland for the Birth of Nikki at 3am..Nikki lets her siblings know she was born in the most bad ass place in the USA…Downtown Oakland..
Brat..
| 648 |
subsailor68 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:46:36am |
re: #634 pingjockey
What is MINSY?
Hi ping. MINSY stands for Mare Island Naval Shipyard, in Vallejo California. A number of 637 class attack subs were built there, including Hawkbill, Pintado, and Drum. I had the pleasure of being a plankowner of Pintado, and spent over two years there back in the late 60’s - early 70’s.
| 649 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:49:08am |
re: #648 subsailor68
Hi ping. MINSY stands for Mare Island Naval Shipyard, in Vallejo California. A number of 637 class attack subs were built there, including Hawkbill, Pintado, and Drum. I had the pleasure of being a plankowner of Pintado, and spent over two years there back in the late 60’s - early 70’s.
I am proud to have worked there…Don’t forget the top secret 683 at the time..2 years of my life building her..She spent about 5 years in DD#3.
| 651 |
subsailor68 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:50:41am |
re: #649 HoosierHoops
I am proud to have worked there…Don’t forget the top secret 683 at the time..2 years of my life building her..She spent about 5 years in DD#3.
Hi Hoops! You have every reason to be proud. I’ve spent time at a number of the other yards over the years, and I still have a soft spot for Mare Island. And yep, I do remember 683.
Of course, I could be a bit biased - since we built Pintado there.
;-)
| 652 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:52:55am |
re: #648 subsailor68
Allright. Was stationed in San Diego, Rhode Island, and Cape Canaveral.
Had a tour of the Tautog(sp) in 1980 in Diego Garcia. Their sonar control was about the siz of a walk in closet! I was on the USS O’brien at the time, DD 975. Couldn’t believe how small the interior of that boat was!
| 653 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:56:14am |
re: #651 subsailor68
Hi Hoops! You have every reason to be proud. I’ve spent time at a number of the other yards over the years, and I still have a soft spot for Mare Island. And yep, I do remember 683.
Of course, I could be a bit biased - since we built Pintado there.
;-)
The SSN683 may be the greatest, most secret advanced Sub of all time..
You can Wikki it..Still it doesn’t tell you crap about it..The Billions we poured into the technology for 5 years..Pulled her out of Drydock and decommed her soon afterwards..What a waste
| 654 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:56:22am |
re: #649 HoosierHoops
I am proud to have worked there…Don’t forget the top secret 683 at the time..2 years of my life building her..She spent about 5 years in DD#3.
Interestingly, the research role the 683 (USS Parche) played has been assumed by the USS Jimmy Carter.
| 655 |
subsailor68 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 9:58:47am |
re: #652 pingjockey
Allright. Was stationed in San Diego, Rhode Island, and Cape Canaveral.
Had a tour of the Tautog(sp) in 1980 in Diego Garcia. Their sonar control was about the siz of a walk in closet! I was on the USS O’brien at the time, DD 975. Couldn’t believe how small the interior of that boat was!
LOL! Pintado’s wasn’t really any larger than Tautog’s. But, thanks to the good guys in the shipyard (who liked canned hams, coffee, and other treats), our sonar shack was paneled in rosewood formica, had royal blue wall-to-wall carpeting, and some absolutely amazing aircraft chairs in red leather (well, fake red leather anyway) in front of the consoles. They looked like lounge chairs. We also had a stereo system built in. Seriously comfortable space.
| 656 |
HoosierHoops Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:01:41am |
re: #654 Dark_Falcon
Interestingly, the research role the 683 (USS Parche) played has been assumed by the USS Jimmy Carter.
Research? LOL Bro…The SSN683 was designed to be a killing machine…Pay no attention to Wikki! They may tell you the hundreds of millions of dollars of electronics was for advanced research.. It was for advanced killing.. This was a warship..And deadly
| 657 |
pingjockey Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:02:03am |
re: #655 subsailor68
Nice! I’ll never forget the Command Master Chief when I was in Fla. Was on the USNS Range Sentinel, TAGM 22. We were the intial tracking platform for DASOs and OTs for the east coast boomers. I noticed his dolphins were different from the rest of the submariners. It was because his were diesel boat dolphins not those wussy nuc boat dolphins!
| 659 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:06:23am |
re: #646 jvic
I have no problem with Breyer reading foreign jurisprudence. When he cites it, he is stepping on a slippery slope that, he assures us, is not steep enough to worry about. Uh huh. Yeah sure.
After all, when we have an indispensably smart guy like Breyer interpreting
Americanthe law, it’s only natural that he’d check with the indispensably smart people in other countries, right? /(I tried to keep this comment more or less civil. My actual reaction is a good deal more vehement than what I typed.)
I appreciate your civility and will strive to respond in kind.
Here’s my view, more broadly expressed:
The U S Supreme Court can and should draw from the brightest thinkers and find the best ideas that it can as it does its job. (As should we all.) The marketplace of ideas knows no national boundaries. Some issues will be of such parochial interest to us that there won’t be any foreign commentary worth considering, but on other topics of broader interest there might be. But whether it is a study from the Heritage Foundation or a court opinion from the International Court of Justice, ideas are ideas. And our Supreme Court Justices are free and should be free to explore those ideas and weigh them on their merits. And if they find one of those ideas to be useful in determining how to rule in a case before them, they should avail themselves of that idea and say so.
I take your comment to mean (and I apologize if I paraphrase poorly) that you are OK with them reading foreign thinkers but not citing them. I am not sure I get the distinction. Whether Breyer says what he read or not, what is binding on lower Courts is the holding of our Supremes, not the content of a cited study or opinion. And if lower courts misconstrue what the Supremes said or meant, there is the appellate process to fix that.
Unless we are going to an interpretive scheme that says the only thing the Supremes can consider is the original text plus some pre-approved list of other sources (a result I consider to be absurd on its face), them we should want them seeking out the best ideas they can, and we shouldn’t want them being disingenuous about their source. A sort of intellectual “don’t ask don’t tell” policy accomplishes nothing. After all, by citing the foreign source, Breyer would open up the discussion further, as readers could go to that source and see whether Breyer interpreted it correctly. That offers another line of argument to the opponents of whatever position Breyer might be taking on the issue at hand.
If I misunderstood your point, I apologize in advance. Let me know if I am in the ballpark.
| 660 |
subsailor68 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:08:19am |
re: #657 pingjockey
Nice! I’ll never forget the Command Master Chief when I was in Fla. Was on the USNS Range Sentinel, TAGM 22. We were the intial tracking platform for DASOs and OTs for the east coast boomers. I noticed his dolphins were different from the rest of the submariners. It was because his were diesel boat dolphins not those wussy nuc boat dolphins!
Quick story.
The chief steward on Pintado when I came aboard was an African American gentleman named Brown (we all called him Brownie). He was the captain’s personal steward, and took very good care of the CO. One time the captain was off the boat during noon meal, and the XO sat in his chair at the head of the table. Chief Brown told the XO that was the captain’s chair, and if the XO wanted to eat, he’d better move. The XO did.
I was trying to figure out what gave Brownie that kind of power when a couple of the guys told me that Brownie had been a captain’s personal steward his entire career - right from his first boat.
He was Howard Gilmore’s steward on the Growler, and was on board when Gilmore died - securing the hatch while under attack from the air. While he was still topside.
| 661 |
subsailor68 Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:08:52am |
Gonna check the other thread too. Have a great day all.
| 662 |
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:09:37am |
Dear co-worker:
You have a habit that is slowly but surely driving me full-bore, Timecube-level batshit insane.
I’ll be the first to admit that it’s a completely irrational irritation. We work in a noisy environment. Between the telephones, the 400 year-old air conditioning system, the conveyor in the shipping area, and the damn near non-stop testing of the fire alarm, it’s a bleedin’ miracle that we’re all not deaf yet. That is why I will never mention your habit to you directly. It would be like being in the front row of a Black Sabbath concert, and complaining that a person 50 feet away is tapping his feet too loudly. It would out me as a deranged lunatic, and I prefer to maintain my outward facade of normalcy.
Nevertheless, your OBNOXIOUS, TUNELESS WHISTLING is really pushing the limits of what my psyche can bear. It always starts with the SAME FOUR FLIPPIN’ NOTES, the last of which is always assigned a vibrato that I’d swear spans 5 octaves. Somehow, you are able to keep this up for dozens of eternal minutes at a time. Reliably, just when I suddenly notice the absence of your ungodly noise pollution, you fire it up again, and HERE COME THE DAMNED FOUR NOTES.
Somehow, your volume and frequency pierces every other constant ambient noise in this enormous building. It would not surprise me at all to learn that you were involved in some freak scientific experiment gone wrong, and were exposed to weird chemicals or some type of radiation while the Harlem Globetrotters theme song just coincidentally happened to be playing, and now you have a fucking SUPER POWER that consists of this supernatural whistle-weapon that you wield like Thor’s hammer. When you whistle, I can actually feel every cell in my body trying to disintegrate at the subatomic level. I don’t know what your equivalent of Kryptonite is, but I PROMISE that if you don’t stop, I am going to do whatever the hell I have to do to FIND IT. I will become your Ra’s Al Ghul, Doctor Doom, Lex Luthor, and General Zod, all in one.
Sincerely,
me
| 663 |
Dark_Falcon Fri, Apr 2, 2010 10:20:10am |
re: #656 HoosierHoops
Research? LOL Bro…The SSN683 was designed to be a killing machine…Pay no attention to Wikki! They may tell you the hundreds of millions of dollars of electronics was for advanced research.. It was for advanced killing.. This was a warship..And deadly
And it’s one of the three most formidable subs ever constructed.
| 664 |
jvic Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:09:16am |
re: #659 garhighway
I appreciate your civility and will strive to respond in kind.
Likewise.
The U S Supreme Court can and should draw from the brightest thinkers and find the best ideas that it can as it does its job. (As should we all.) The marketplace of ideas knows no national boundaries. Some issues will be of such parochial interest to us that there won’t be any foreign commentary worth considering, but on other topics of broader interest there might be. But whether it is a study from the Heritage Foundation or a court opinion from the International Court of Justice, ideas are ideas. And our Supreme Court Justices are free and should be free to explore those ideas and weigh them on their merits. And if they find one of those ideas to be useful in determining how to rule in a case before them, they should avail themselves of that idea…
Agreed.
…and say so.
Don’t agree.
I take your comment to mean (and I apologize if I paraphrase poorly) that you are OK with them reading foreign thinkers but not citing them. I am not sure I get the distinction. Whether Breyer says what he read or not, what is binding on lower Courts is the holding of our Supremes, not the content of a cited study or opinion. And if lower courts misconstrue what the Supremes said or meant, there is the appellate process to fix that.
The source (or basis) of the Supreme Court’s legitmate authority is my gravamen against your position. IMO that source is the will of the sovereign American people as expressed in the Constitution and in constitutional laws and constitutional directives of the executive branch.
Unless we are going to an interpretive scheme that says the only thing the Supremes can consider is the original text plus some pre-approved list of other sources (a result I consider to be absurd on its face),…
I’ll call it facially absurd if taken to extremes. Moreover, the Constitution is amendable, and laws can be added and changed. Of course we should learn from other countries, but IMO the political process, not the judicial process, is usually the appropriate mechanism for adjusting America’s self-governance. If a Congresscritter says we should do such-and-such because it works well in the EU, I’ll listen to the merits, but I consider it out of bounds for a judge or Justice to invoke EU jurisprudence in a legal opinion.
…them we should want them seeking out the best ideas they can, and we shouldn’t want them being disingenuous about their source. A sort of intellectual “don’t ask don’t tell” policy accomplishes nothing. After all, by citing the foreign source, Breyer would open up the discussion further, as readers could go to that source and see whether Breyer interpreted it correctly. That offers another line of argument to the opponents of whatever position Breyer might be taking on the issue at hand.
I have little to add to what I already wrote. I’ll provisionally grant that I see no problem with judge’s off-bench writings and speeches citing whatever he/she pleases, as long as the official opinions acknowledge the sovereignty of the American people as delegated to the American government.
If I misunderstood your point, I apologize in advance. Let me know if I am in the ballpark.
Even if we disagree, you helped me clarify my thinking. Unfortunately I have to leave for an hour or so and cannot continue the discussion immediately.
| 665 |
garhighway Fri, Apr 2, 2010 11:32:29am |
re: #664 jvic
Even if we disagree, you helped me clarify my thinking. Unfortunately I have to leave for an hour or so and cannot continue the discussion immediately.
OK, I think I see where you are.
My couple of additional thoughts:
1. I agree that “the political process, not the judicial process, is usually the appropriate mechanism for adjusting America’s self-governance”. But knowing that Constitutional amendments are incredibly difficult to get passed (they require an overwhelming political consensus) and that the evolution of technology and society keep creating issues that couldn’t possibly have been foreseen by the Framers, the Court will necessarily have to deal with questions of relatively modern origin on which American thinkers will hold no monopoly. So for me, it isn’t about how the Constitution gets changed, but how it gets interpreted in the light of a changing world.
2. You insist that “the official opinions acknowledge the sovereignty of the American people as delegated to the American government”. I know of no serious commentator that doesn’t agree with that. To the point where it is so obvious that it need not be stated. Has there been any serious Constitutional commentator anywhere that contests that point? To me, putting such a comment in a US Supreme Court opinion would be like putting up a sign by a swimming pool saying “Warning: Water is Wet”.
3. This goes to the heart of the issue. Somewhere out there seems to be some sort of sneaking suspicion that some unnamed forces want the US Supreme Court to cede our national sovereignty to some unnamed foreign entity. Again, who has advanced that as being a good idea? It seems to me like a straw man argument.
4. Finally, to invoke a concept that may have been over-exposed lately, this is about transparency. People should say what they mean, and if Breyer or any other Justice is paraphrasing someone else, he or she ought to tell us who so we can see if he or she even got it right. The quality of discourse is better when there is full disclosure. That is how better ideas triumph over lesser ones.
Again, thanks for your civility. This was a fun discussion.
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