Report: Pakistani Arrested in Times Square Attack

US News • Views: 4,117

The news is just coming out that a Pakistani man has been arrested at JFK International Airport in connection with the Times Square car bomb attack.

NEW YORK – A suspect in last weekend’s failed car bomb attack on Times Square was taken into custody late Monday while trying to leave the country, a law enforcement official said.

The suspect, a Pakistani, was identified at midnight Monday at John F. Kennedy International Airport and was stopped, said the official, who spoke to The Associated Press early Tuesday on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the investigation. The suspect has not been named. He was being held in New York.

Law enforcement officials say the suspect recently returned from a trip to Pakistan and bought the 1993 Nissan Pathfinder used in the failed car bomb three weeks ago and paid cash. The officials spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of the case.

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851 comments
1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:00:28pm

This isn't the first such arrest, and it won't be the last.

2 darthstar  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:01:03pm

Note to self...don't buy a car on Craigslist, try to blow it up, and then think you can get to the airport and fly out of the country in 48 hours. Apparently, the police and FBI work in shifts that go around the clock.

3 Kragar  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:01:19pm

re: #1 EmmmieG

This isn't the first such arrest, and it won't be the last.

Probably a full crew. Handlers, money men, planners, etc.

4 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:03:54pm

re: #2 darthstar

Note to self...don't buy a car on Craigslist, try to blow it up, and then think you can get to the airport and fly out of the country in 48 hours. Apparently, the police and FBI work in shifts that go around the clock.

If he turns out to be the guy... Boy, we're definitely not dealing with geniuses here.

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:04:17pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Probably a full crew. Handlers, money men, planners, etc.

I wouldn't mind reaching back into Pakistan and getting a few there, too, but I'm sure that's much more complicated.

6 sngnsgt  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:05:35pm

re: #2 darthstar

I hear they carry portable phones too...?

7 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:05:50pm

Hang 'Em High

Great movie.

8 Kragar  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:05:56pm

re: #5 EmmmieG

I wouldn't mind reaching back into Pakistan and getting a few there, too, but I'm sure that's much more complicated.

We've already got Predators hitting what we can, got to assume CIA working with their intelligence service, and with the Pakistani government officially on our side, we're not going in guns blazing.

9 darthstar  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:06:41pm

Greta "I just bit into a turd" Van Susteren just said, and I quote her verbatim: "Look at the 168 people killed in the World Trade Center in Oklahoma." Seriously, she said that.

That woman's a fucking retard.

Okay...Bed time...seriously. See you all in the morning.

10 stevedecatur  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:07:35pm

Suspect was a recently naturalized citizen. That's some mighty fine work there, Homeland Security.

11 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:08:37pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Probably a full crew. Handlers, money men, planners, etc.

Plus whoever the follow-on drone strike in Pakistan takes out.

Eat Mavericks you Islamist scum!

12 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:12:11pm

G'nite, everyone, and sweet dreams of a successful sweep of all this cell.

13 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:12:32pm

Warning: RoP at work.

14 Linden Arden  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:12:41pm

Tracked down via his IP address.

You gotta love the internets!

15 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:14:54pm

re: #10 stevedecatur

Suspect was a recently naturalized citizen. That's some mighty fine work there, Homeland Security.

Well, we can't be too choosy I suppose. The occasional car-bomber is bound to slip through the cracks.

16 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:16:25pm

re: #9 darthstar

Greta "I just bit into a turd" Van Susteren just said, and I quote her verbatim: "Look at the 168 people killed in the World Trade Center in Oklahoma." Seriously, she said that.

That woman's a fucking retard.

Okay...Bed time...seriously. See you all in the morning.

It was such a favorite quote you had to post it twice!

17 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:17:51pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Probably a full crew. Handlers, money men, planners, etc.

You don't need any of that to produce such an inept bomb.

The good news behind all of this is that these guys can't get their hands on the real deal and probably still couldn't get it to work if they did.

Firecrackers? Non-explosive fertilizer? Leaving your hazard lights flashing when you park the car?

It's called scraping the bottom of the barrel.

18 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:19:09pm

re: #14 Linden Arden

Tracked down via his IP address.

You gotta love the internets!

But, but but the internets are completely anonymous, no one knows who you really are...well, except for Charles maybe...

/

19 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:19:43pm

He was busted at JFK before he boarded a plane out of the country. How many do you think got away?

20 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:21:36pm

re: #19 NJDhockeyfan

He was busted at JFK before he boarded a plane out of the country. How many do you think got away?

Possibly no one got out of the country yet.

Is there some reason why you must paint this in the worst possible light? Oh yes, ODS...

21 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:22:09pm

re: #4 Nimed

The fact that this jihadi was "not a genius" sounds like a psychological mechanism to diffuse fear. So what that this man wasn't successful. You might be smarter to recognize how easy it is to be a jihadi in the Western world. You have internet sites to inspire and teach you, tame media to act like it's no big deal, and "officials" to point out that the attack was "unsuccessful". I'm not saying that everyone needs to live in fear. However, everyone needs to understand the dangers of radical Islam. This fact is downplayed by the government, including the last one in power. We are vulnerable and the more that concerned citizens (one who recently notified the police when seeing the smoke coming out of the SUV) learn to identify the enemy and react, the safer we will all be.
The message is; use your eyes, ears, mouth, and the brains that God gave you to identify predators instead of making fun of the slow ones.

22 joest73  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:22:17pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Probably a full crew. Handlers, money men, planners, etc.

Yea but Jack Bauer always gets in the way!

23 Gus  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:22:26pm

re: #15 Bagua

Well, we can't be too choosy I suppose. The occasional car-bomber is bound to slip through the cracks.

There's not much they can do really. If he didn't have anything that raised any alarms from Pakistan he would get approved. Otherwise that would require assigning a special agent to each person trying to become a US citizen assigned with the task of investigating each applicant from suspect countries. Not enough manpower and not enough funding to support such a task.

25 PAUL_MACDONALD  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:22:42pm

Is it just me, or are these guys just getting worse at blowing stuff up?

26 tradewind  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:23:16pm

Wonder if any reporter will ask AG Holder about holding KSM's trial in Manhattan.....

27 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:23:54pm

re: #20 ludwigvanquixote

Possibly no one got out of the country yet.

Is there some reason why you must paint this in the worst possible light? Oh yes, ODS...

That's ridiculous. What evidence do you have that I blame Obama for anything related to this failed terror attack?

28 Tigger2005  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:24:44pm

re: #4 Nimed

If he turns out to be the guy... Boy, we're definitely not dealing with geniuses here.

No time to get complacent. After the first World Trade Center bombing a lot of people said the same thing.

Of course, at the time we weren't whacking terrorists left and right all over the planet.

29 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:24:46pm

re: #25 PAUL_MACDONALD

Is it just me, or are these guys just getting worse at blowing stuff up?

They only need to get it right once. I hope we can catch them before they try again.

30 Gus  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:25:12pm

Briefing on Times Square bomb attempt arrest

Attorney General Eric Holder holds a briefing on the arrest of a suspect in the Times Square bomb attempt (DELAYED UNTIL 1:30 AM)

That would be in 3 minutes. Might take longer as we saw with Bloomberg.

Live video.

31 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:25:28pm

re: #23 Gus 802

There's not much they can do really. If he didn't have anything that raised any alarms from Pakistan he would get approved. Otherwise that would require assigning a special agent to each person trying to become a US citizen assigned with the task of investigating each applicant from suspect countries. Not enough manpower and not enough funding to support such a task.

I expect the issue may become whether any immigration from Pakistan should be allowed.

32 teleskiguy  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:25:36pm

I'm glad this would-be terrorist is a bumbling fool who probably couldn't assemble a shelf, let alone a bomb.

33 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:26:22pm

re: #25 PAUL_MACDONALD

Is it just me, or are these guys just getting worse at blowing stuff up?

It's not just you. The NYPD, FBI and Homeland Security keep getting better with every failed Islamist plot, while the Islamists sent to carry out attacks suffer from severe cases of being in prison or being dead.

34 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:26:32pm

re: #20 ludwigvanquixote

Possibly no one got out of the country yet.

Is there some reason why you must paint this in the worst possible light? Oh yes, ODS...

There were 37 of "them" and each one solemnly swore an oath to Allah before placing a firecracker in the "Deathcar of Doom," all the others have now successfully fled the country and he was the patsy elected to catch a flight 12 hours later so he would be caught!

/Geez, don't you know anything about how Islamic terrorist cells work?

/Dohh!

35 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:27:13pm

re: #32 teleskiguy

I'm glad this would-be terrorist is a bumbling fool who probably couldn't assemble a shelf, let alone a bomb.

The gang that couldn't shoot straight wing of AQ.

36 Gus  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:27:24pm

re: #31 Bagua

I expect the issue may become whether any immigration from Pakistan should be allowed.

I won't touch that one. Well, I mean look at the 911 hijackers who were all mostly from Saudi Arabia. If we temporarily ban immigration from Pakistan because of this it would jive with what we did with regards to 911.

37 tradewind  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:27:58pm

re: #4 Nimed
Still, Commissioner Kelly said that if it had ignited, there would have been a fireball that would have blown out windows, created shrapnel, and probably killed people.
If there were enough of those incidents spread out around the country, the emotional impact would equal that of a much larger attack.

38 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:29:15pm

re: #36 Gus 802

I won't touch that one. Well, I mean look at the 911 hijackers who were all mostly from Saudi Arabia. If we temporarily ban immigration from Pakistan because of this it would jive with what we did with regards to 911.

Bull.

After 9/11 we increased immigration and student visas from the Magic Kingdom.

And the word is "jibe".

39 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:31:09pm

Two minute warning on the news conference.

40 PAUL_MACDONALD  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:31:33pm

re: #29 NJDhockeyfan

They only need to get it right once. I hope we can catch them before they try again.

What I'm saying is that there have been plenty of opportunities to get it right after the London attacks, and they have failed miserably.

41 Linden Arden  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:32:03pm

The Freepers are elated that the suspect is not a Tea Partier.

But how do they know that?

After all, they say the Tea Party has plenty of minorities.. don't they?

42 joest73  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:32:29pm

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

It's not just you. The NYPD, FBI and Homeland Security keep getting better with every failed Islamist plot, while the Islamists sent to carry out attacks suffer from severe cases of being in prison or being dead.

Which is why these attempts may seem to be so poorly planned. Any organized plot is likely to get the attention of the government.

43 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:32:41pm

re: #37 tradewind

I agree. The third world residents are accustomed to doing things in the cheapest way possible because they are not used to our Western wealth of available technology. That's why you can be successful with box cutters and not need advanced weapons. We are hard pressed to identify with making do with very little to create havoc. I say do not make fun of these people. They are deadly and determined. On the lighter side, have you ever seen a Jackie Chan movie? Anything is a clever weapon!

44 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:32:42pm

re: #38 Cato the Elder

Bull.

After 9/11 we increased immigration and student visas from the Magic Kingdom.

And the word is "jibe".

Nope, the word is Jive.

Youtube Video
45 avanti  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:33:05pm

John Stewart made the point that the MSM spent a lot of time explaining in detail about the missing ingredient to mix with the fertilizer, bypassing the propane safety valves and the like.

BTW, Holder presser on now.

46 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:33:31pm

re: #22 joest73

Yea but Jack Bauer always gets in the way!

Hah! Jack couldn't stop a boy scout from shoplifting a bag of cheetos if it wasn't for Chloe O'Brian and her all seeing satellites and surveillance cameras. If anything happens anywhere in New York she will have the perps picture and have him Identified in less than three minutes, plus also be able to tell Jack exactly where he went after the Bombing/sniping/whatever, what he had for lunch, and whether he prefers boxers or briefs!

/No one gets away from Chloe!

47 tradewind  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:34:03pm

re: #43 yenta-fada
It's the death by a thousand paper cuts thing.

48 Gus  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:34:08pm

re: #38 Cato the Elder

Bull.

After 9/11 we increased immigration and student visas from the Magic Kingdom.

And the word is "jibe".

Oh, I meant it would not jibe with our reaction to 911.

Pardon my typing I took a long nap before and can't seem to loosen up the neck bones and other associated parts.

JibJab!

49 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:34:23pm

re: #40 PAUL_MACDONALD

What I'm saying is that there have been plenty of opportunities to get it right after the London attacks, and they have failed miserably.

Richard Reid, the underwear bomber, and this guy all have gotten their bombs right where they wanted them to be. All failed igniting the explosives. I wouldn't call that failing miserably.

50 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:34:42pm

re: #3 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Probably a full crew. Handlers, money men, planners, etc.

Ya think? It was a terrible operation, and I don't actually see why one guy couldn't pull it off.

51 swamprat  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:34:54pm

Corky Al-Romano


AKA /torpedo for the Gang that couldn't Bomb their Way Out of a Paper Bag


Lord I hope this really was an Al-Qaida production. With any luck, this was the culmination of their best and brightest.

C'mon Corky. Sing sparrow.

52 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:34:59pm

re: #48 Gus 802

Oh, I meant it would not jibe with our reaction to 911.

I had guessed as much.

53 Gus  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:35:06pm

That's it. Press briefing is over.

The sky is blue.

54 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:35:57pm

re: #9 darthstar

Greta "I just bit into a turd" Van Susteren just said, and I quote her verbatim: "Look at the 168 people killed in the World Trade Center in Oklahoma." Seriously, she said that.

That woman's a fucking retard.

Okay...Bed time...seriously. See you all in the morning.

1. Oh good Lord.
2. Why is she bringing up Oklahoma?

55 Varek Raith  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:35:58pm

re: #53 Gus 802

That's it. Press briefing is over.

The sky is blue.

ZOMG HE SAID "TERRORIST"!
The wingnuts will be disappointed.
:arrogant smirk:

56 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:35:58pm

re: #21 yenta-fada

The fact that this jihadi was "not a genius" sounds like a psychological mechanism to diffuse fear. So what that this man wasn't successful. You might be smarter to recognize how easy it is to be a jihadi in the Western world. You have internet sites to inspire and teach you, tame media to act like it's no big deal, and "officials" to point out that the attack was "unsuccessful". I'm not saying that everyone needs to live in fear. However, everyone needs to understand the dangers of radical Islam. This fact is downplayed by the government, including the last one in power. We are vulnerable and the more that concerned citizens (one who recently notified the police when seeing the smoke coming out of the SUV) learn to identify the enemy and react, the safer we will all be.
The message is; use your eyes, ears, mouth, and the brains that God gave you to identify predators instead of making fun of the slow ones.

This may sound hubristic to you, but I'm not very concerned with another terrorist strike, even a successful one. I'm much more worried about people going apeshit - again - with all the risks that entails: another gigantic blunder like the Iraq war, even more liberties curtailed, etc, etc.

I really wish the American people would get used to the idea that we are likely to suffer another successful terrorist attack. If we don't make a big deal out of it, we basically take away the only weapon they have.

57 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:35:59pm

re: #45 avanti

BTW, Holder presser on now.

Good grief, he didn't sound angry, like a public service announcement.

58 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:36:05pm

re: #53 Gus 802

That's it. Press briefing is over.

The sky is blue.

No questions taken.

I'm going to bed.

Later friends!

59 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:36:34pm

Cripes! I walked across the room to pick up the remote and missed the "Official Statement" That was like a Saturday Night Live moment. Just surreal.

60 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:36:47pm

re: #41 Linden Arden

The Freepers are elated that the suspect is not a Tea Partier.

But how do they know that?

After all, they say the Tea Party has plenty of minorities.. don't they?

Nothing like having to pull shit right out of your sorry ass and make stuff up just so you can use this opportunity to trash conservatives. A little obsessive are you...?

Jerk.

61 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:36:53pm

re: #13 Killgore Trout

Warning: RoP at work.

The IRA put up a road sign near Crossmaglen that said "Warning: Sniper at Work". Brits took it down. IRA put it back up. Finally it stayed for some time.

62 Varek Raith  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:37:52pm

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

The IRA put up a road sign near Crossmaglen that said "Warning: Sniper at Work". Brits took it down. IRA put it back up. Finally it stayed for some time.

...Seriously...?

63 swamprat  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:37:56pm

re: #21 yenta-fada

The more you laugh, the more the world realizes that "cool kids" are no longer doing this.

64 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:38:07pm

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

The IRA put up a road sign near Crossmaglen that said "Warning: Sniper at Work". Brits took it down. IRA put it back up. Finally it stayed for some time.

Stayed up till it got shot down?

65 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:38:14pm

re: #15 Bagua

Well, we can't be too choosy I suppose. The occasional car-bomber is bound to slip through the cracks.

We want a representative group of new Americans. You know, a nurse, an engineer, a homemaker, a fashion designer, a radical Islamist car bomber...

66 tradewind  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:38:18pm

re: #46 ausador
I'm outraged, outraged I tell ya, that the producers of 24 would, in one episode, wreck a loyal friend-cum-partnership that has flourished over the past eight hours/years. All the times she has broken the law/committed treason/gone to the mat for Jack and in one instant, poof? And in the final hours?
Not buying it.
Of course, I haven't seen tonight's yet.

67 avanti  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:38:32pm

re: #53 Gus 802

That's it. Press briefing is over.

The sky is blue.

I think it was brief on purpose. I suspect they were forced to arrest the guy early when he tried to flee. Better to have kept a eye on him, bugging his phone and the like looking for intelligence.
I'm sure we have more info we can't share yet.

68 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:39:02pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

We want a representative group of new Americans. You know, a nurse, an engineer, a homemaker, a fashion designer, a radical Islamist car bomber...

Ah yes, diversity!

69 Mark Pennington  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:39:41pm

Thank you, US Government, FBI and NYPD for being diligent and kick-ass at keeping us safe.

PS: This guy must be a total moron.

70 avanti  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:40:08pm

re: #57 Bagua

Good grief, he didn't sound angry, like a public service announcement.

That's reaching a bit, what did you expect him to do ?

71 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:40:23pm

re: #65 SanFranciscoZionist

We want a representative group of new Americans. You know, a nurse, an engineer, a homemaker, a fashion designer, a radical Islamist car bomber...

Tinker, tailor, soldier, spy.
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

72 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:40:45pm

re: #21 yenta-fada

The fact that this jihadi was "not a genius" sounds like a psychological mechanism to diffuse fear. So what that this man wasn't successful. You might be smarter to recognize how easy it is to be a jihadi in the Western world. You have internet sites to inspire and teach you, tame media to act like it's no big deal, and "officials" to point out that the attack was "unsuccessful". I'm not saying that everyone needs to live in fear. However, everyone needs to understand the dangers of radical Islam. This fact is downplayed by the government, including the last one in power. We are vulnerable and the more that concerned citizens (one who recently notified the police when seeing the smoke coming out of the SUV) learn to identify the enemy and react, the safer we will all be.
The message is; use your eyes, ears, mouth, and the brains that God gave you to identify predators instead of making fun of the slow ones.

This guy was a fool. We win, he loses. He goes to jail, and no one got hurt. Tonight I'm not thinking vulnerable, I'm gloating.

Damn skippy it's a psychological mechanism. Enjoying victory feels good, and provides positive reinforcement.

73 Varek Raith  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:40:50pm

re: #70 avanti

That's reaching a bit, what did you expect him to do ?

GO RAMBO ON TERRIST ASSES!!!11!!

74 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:40:54pm

re: #56 Nimed

This may sound hubristic to you, but I'm not very concerned with another terrorist strike, even a successful one. I'm much more worried about people going apeshit - again - with all the risks that entails: another gigantic blunder like the Iraq war, even more liberties curtailed, etc, etc.

I really wish the American people would get used to the idea that we are likely to suffer another successful terrorist attack. If we don't make a big deal out of it, we basically take away the only weapon they have.

It doesn't sound hubristic, it sounds naive and simple-minded.

If we had another successful terrorist attack here, asking people not to make a big deal out of it would be like asking the shrimp fishermen in the Gulf to just shrug off the oil spill and get on with their lives.

If we had a major successful terrorist attack here and it came from Pakistan, I would not be opposed to joining India in all-out war on that nearly failed state.

You really do live in a world of unicorns, don't you?

75 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:41:17pm

re: #56 Nimed

This may sound hubristic to you, but I'm not very concerned with another terrorist strike, even a successful one. I'm much more worried about people going apeshit - again - with all the risks that entails: another gigantic blunder like the Iraq war, even more liberties curtailed, etc, etc.

I really wish the American people would get used to the idea that we are likely to suffer another successful terrorist attack. If we don't make a big deal out of it, we basically take away the only weapon they have.

When they try to kill us like this, it's a big deal.

76 tradewind  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:41:21pm

re: #56 Nimed
Because it'd be much worse for us to be hyper-concerned than to have a section of NYC incinerated again?
Not buying it.

77 joest73  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:41:36pm

re: #56 Nimed

This may sound hubristic to you, but I'm not very concerned with another terrorist strike, even a successful one. I'm much more worried about people going apeshit - again - with all the risks that entails: another gigantic blunder like the Iraq war, even more liberties curtailed, etc, etc.

I really wish the American people would get used to the idea that we are likely to suffer another successful terrorist attack. If we don't make a big deal out of it, we basically take away the only weapon they have.

Kind of like what Bill Clinton did after the first WTC attack....

78 tradewind  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:41:56pm

re: #70 avanti
Be pissed.//

79 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:42:07pm

re: #37 tradewind

Still, Commissioner Kelly said that if it had ignited, there would have been a fireball that would have blown out windows, created shrapnel, and probably killed people.
If there were enough of those incidents spread out around the country, the emotional impact would equal that of a much larger attack.

They got the "emotional impact" even though the attack once again completely failed, just like the last two. The more we and the news talk about it, the more people are afraid, the more people are willing to accept ever more draconian government intervention in order to "keep us safe" the more the terrorists win.

This is course #101 in the terrorist play book, it is why they are called terrorists, their only aim is to make our own government so harsh and authoritarian that we ourselves rebel against it, when we do that they have won.

80 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:42:09pm

re: #70 avanti

That's reaching a bit, what did you expect him to do ?

Not reaching at all, his delivery was very bland. I'd like to hear his growl a little. Make some sort of Dead or Alive type promise to lift our spirits.

81 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:42:15pm

re: #60 Walter L. Newton

Nothing like having to pull shit right out of your sorry ass and make stuff up just so you can use this opportunity to trash conservatives. A little obsessive are you...?

Jerk.

Jerk.

82 Varek Raith  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:42:25pm

re: #78 tradewind

Be pissed.//

Would that make you feel better?

83 Walter L. Newton  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:42:29pm

re: #81 Jimmah

Jerk.

Yawn.

84 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:42:49pm

re: #74 Cato the Elder

It doesn't sound hubristic, it sounds naive and simple-minded.

If we had another successful terrorist attack here, asking people not to make a big deal out of it would be like asking the shrimp fishermen in the Gulf to just shrug off the oil spill and get on with their lives.

If we had a major successful terrorist attack here and it came from Pakistan, I would not be opposed to joining India in all-out war on that nearly failed state.

You really do live in a world of unicorns, don't you?

They can be mesmerizing in their beauty, Cato. And the rainbows they fart are addictive.

85 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:42:50pm

re: #74 Cato the Elder

If we had another successful terrorist attack here, asking people not to make a big deal out of it would be like asking the shrimp fishermen in the Gulf to just shrug off the oil spill and get on with their lives.

If we had a major successful terrorist attack here and it came from Pakistan, I would not be opposed to joining India in all-out war on that nearly failed state.

Quoted without the snark, and I agree with what is quoted.

86 tradewind  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:43:07pm

re: #75 Dark_Falcon
Make that a Big Effing Deal.

87 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:43:31pm

re: #56 Nimed

I don't think your statement sounds like hubris. I think your statement sounds like you are very young. The mere fact that you can "accept" the idea of terrorist attacks in the U.S. is something an old lady like me finds completely foreign as an American mindset. I did not approve of the Iraq War, and in Canada, we did not enter it. However, defending North American freedoms has always come at a price in my lifetime. The fact that it is now on U.S. and Canadian soil is a black mark in my life experience.

88 engineer cat  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:43:42pm

well, i'm really glad that all these experts in the NYT article that tradewind linked say that the oil spill is no big deal. i don't know anything about oil spills or ecological systems, so i only know what i read on the raddio

89 tradewind  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:43:50pm

re: #79 ausador
Err, no. Their main aim is to pretty much kill us. At least, that's usually the gist of their tapes......

90 tradewind  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:44:36pm

re: #88 engineer dog
My point was to say they're full of it. I didn't agree with them. I'm very afraid of what will happen from this spill.

91 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:44:37pm

re: #75 Dark_Falcon

When they try to kill us like this, it's a big deal.

It is a big deal.
Do you have friends or family who lost loved ones on 9-11?
It is a big deal.

92 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:44:53pm

re: #85 Floral Giraffe

Quoted without the snark, and I agree with what is quoted.

The part about him being naive and simple-minded was not snark, it was my best shot at his mentality.

And the part about the unicorns was also descriptive of same.

93 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:44:55pm

re: #73 Varek Raith

GO RAMBO ON TERRIST ASSES!!!11!!

That would have sat better with me. The guy should use a spokesman next time.

94 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:45:09pm

re: #63 swamprat

I'm sorry, I really didn't understand your statement. It has been many decades since I was a kid. As for cool, I'm not it.

95 Killgore Trout  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:45:10pm

Holder: Suspect arrested trying to fly to Dubai

The suspect, named as Faisal Shahzad, was arrested trying to board a flight to Dubai at New York's JFK airport, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in an early morning press conference on Tuesday.

96 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:45:18pm

re: #86 tradewind

Make that a Big Effing Deal.

True, but I try not to curse when it isn't needed. Still, it is of the highest importance to nail anyone working with this terrorist dirtbag.

97 Varek Raith  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:45:34pm

re: #91 Floral Giraffe

It is a big deal.
Do you have friends or family who lost loved ones on 9-11?
It is a big deal.

Indeed. I'm only ~25 miles from the Pentagon. That was a scary day.

98 avanti  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:46:00pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

This guy was a fool. We win, he loses. He goes to jail, and no one got hurt. Tonight I'm not thinking vulnerable, I'm gloating.

Damn skippy it's a psychological mechanism. Enjoying victory feels good, and provides positive reinforcement.

He was far from a expert. I could do a better job even without a google search. As a matter of fact, I would have probably been put in jail for the stuff I did as a teenager. You could buy all the ingredients to make gunpowder at my local drug store and we'd blow up trees and such for grins. I later moved on to model rockets though, using Jetex solid fuel.

99 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:46:39pm

re: #62 Varek Raith

...Seriously...?

Yup.

100 Gus  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:46:47pm

re: #36 Gus 802

I won't touch that one. Well, I mean look at the 911 hijackers who were all mostly from Saudi Arabia. If we temporarily ban immigration from Pakistan because of this it would jive with what we did with regards to 911.

Correction since I can't edit my posts:

I won't touch that one. Well, I mean look at the 911 hijackers who were all mostly from Saudi Arabia. If we temporarily ban immigration from Pakistan because of this it would not jibe with what we did with regards to 911.

My statement of course could probably use some work in order to meet the standards of the Oxford School of English but I regret that I do not have the time.

/

101 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:46:57pm

re: #99 SanFranciscoZionist

Yup.

Sorry, YUP.

102 avanti  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:47:00pm

re: #78 tradewind

Be pissed.//

I'd be pissed if I had to do a presser at 1:30 AM.

103 engineer cat  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:47:25pm

re: #90 tradewind

My point was to say they're full of it. I didn't agree with them. I'm very afraid of what will happen from this spill.

ruh-roh

i guess the crux then is at what point the thing gets capped

104 Varek Raith  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:47:31pm

re: #101 SanFranciscoZionist

Sorry, YUP.

Crazy!

105 JamesWI  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:47:39pm

I'm wondering exactly why the Pakistani Taliban is so eager to take credit for this attempt. You don't exactly seem like the most competent, menacing terror organization when your bombs consist of non-explosive fertilizer and Roman Candles.

106 zeir  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:47:57pm

re: #41 Linden Arden

107 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:48:09pm

re: #98 avanti

He was far from a expert. I could do a better job even without a google search. As a matter of fact, I would have probably been put in jail for the stuff I did as a teenager. You could buy all the ingredients to make gunpowder at my local drug store and we'd blow up trees and such for grins. I later moved on to model rockets though, using Jetex solid fuel.

Good that you had the sense to not have your fun in Times Square.

108 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:48:12pm

re: #92 Cato the Elder

The part about him being naive and simple-minded was not snark, it was my best shot at his mentality.

And the part about the unicorns was also descriptive of same.

You say tomahto, I say tomnaaaahto!
I don't ever even TRY to fathom others mentality on the intertoobes.
Not even yours, you old Roman!

109 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:48:27pm

re: #91 Floral Giraffe

It is a big deal.
Do you have friends or family who lost loved ones on 9-11?
It is a big deal.

Happily, the current war has not claimed anyone close to me.

110 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:48:43pm

re: #66 tradewind

Dave Barry, the humor columnist at the Miami Herald, does a great little blog on '24'. The comments are a riot. He illustrates various characters in his intros by highlighting the names and you click on them and a funny photo appears. Warning. He hides a Barry Manilow pic somewhere in the intro, so watch out.

111 zeir  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:50:01pm

re: #41 Linden Arden

Please return the high lights...

112 swamprat  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:50:15pm

re: #61 SanFranciscoZionist

The IRA put up a road sign near Crossmaglen that said "Warning: Sniper at Work". Brits took it down. IRA put it back up. Finally it stayed for some time.

"One shot paddy" is a cheerful little tune on youtube.
I'll not post, or link, to it because it glorifies terrorism.
Sometimes when I'm in a "goth" mood, I will listen to it.

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:50:33pm

re: #80 Bagua

Not reaching at all, his delivery was very bland. I'd like to hear his growl a little. Make some sort of Dead or Alive type promise to lift our spirits.

They have him. Alive. That's really all I need to know at this hour.

114 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:50:38pm

re: #69 beekiller

Thank you, US Government, FBI and NYPD for being diligent and kick-ass at keeping us safe.

PS: This guy must be a total moron.

He makes the Al Quaeda hit on Glasgow airport seem like a professional job.

Speaking of which, there's a wee blast from the past, courtesy of Scottish lefties at "First Foot"about that - I'll post it tomorrow (too late to search for it just now - also , ice-ski and myself just returned from the pub and I'm a bit pished just now). It is funny though - you'll like it.

Hope you are well, beekiller - aw the best frae us baith :)

115 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:51:25pm

re: #17 Cato the Elder

You don't need any of that to produce such an inept bomb.

The good news behind all of this is that these guys can't get their hands on the real deal and probably still couldn't get it to work if they did.

Firecrackers? Non-explosive fertilizer? Leaving your hazard lights flashing when you park the car?

It's called scraping the bottom of the barrel.

There's even a scientific paper out explaining that "human capital" (IQ) is highly correlated with success in suicide bombings. Not much human capital invested in this attempt.

116 joest73  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:51:34pm

re: #110 yenta-fada

Dave Barry, the humor columnist at the Miami Herald, does a great little blog on '24'. The comments are a riot. He illustrates various characters in his intros by highlighting the names and you click on them and a funny photo appears. Warning. He hides a Barry Manilow pic somewhere in the intro, so watch out.

I'll miss reading his blog during/after a "24" episode.

117 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:51:42pm

Nimed's comments remind me of the recent posters here who say Israel should just take it in stride when Hamas shoots "glorified fireworks" (quote from Dr. Cordell) into her territory.

The same people will say the same thing when (not if) Hezbollah starts sending in those Scuds.

I'm damned glad we caught this turd and that his amateur bomb didn't go off. But apparently he just rearrived here from Pakistan. That tells me something.

Oh, but let's not lash out, and certainly let's not make a big deal of it if the next guy has better luck.

Feh.

118 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:52:01pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

Happily, the current war has not claimed anyone close to me.

Well, if you need motivation to fuel you ( As I sometimes do) just remember the folks who jumped from the burning buildings. Yes, jumped to a certain death. Many were holding hands. NEVER FORGET.

You can look in the left side bar for "Slideshows" if you need a visual.

*SNIFF* Shit. Now, I'm all upset.

119 engineer cat  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:52:27pm

i recall that after 9/11 we americans were all full of what amounted to helpful hints as to what the terrorists might do next (blow up a car bomb on the bay bridge, etc)

however, it seems that no matter how much helpful advice we inadvertantly give them, these terrorists rarely seem to show the know how, practical ability, and stick-to-it-iveness that are charactaristic of americans

kein ahora, and g-d forbid they should ever learn

120 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:52:44pm

re: #72 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, I must be one of those pessimists who self-identify as realists. Oh goody. Nobody got blown up in a homicide bombing attempt in Times Square.// Hollow victory when you know the enemy is out there learning. Just as the current Hezbollah is a very different organization than the 2000 Hezbollah, the enemy can gather strength.

121 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:52:48pm

re: #74 Cato the Elder


Several points here:

If we had another successful terrorist attack here, asking people not to make a big deal out of it would be like asking the shrimp fishermen in the Gulf to just shrug off the oil spill and get on with their lives.

This is just a horrible analogy. You're comparing a very real damage with a mostly psychological one. The oil spill is an actual obstacle that prevents fishermen from doing their work. A terrorist attack isn't for the vast majority of Americans.

If we had a major successful terrorist attack here and it came from Pakistan, I would not be opposed to joining India in all-out war on that nearly failed state.

It's futile to speculate in such a vague scenario. Depending on the details, I might support an attack too. Or not. But knee-jerk reactions are what lead us to invade Iraq in the first place.

You really do live in a world of unicorns, don't you?

I was describing a desirable state of mind, not the actual one. You're simply conflating the two, I'm not sure why.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:53:06pm

re: #105 JamesWI

I'm wondering exactly why the Pakistani Taliban is so eager to take credit for this attempt. You don't exactly seem like the most competent, menacing terror organization when your bombs consist of non-explosive fertilizer and Roman Candles.

I wonder if they heard about it and claimed responsibility before all the info came in. 'Car bomb in New York' sounded good.

123 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:54:13pm

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

Yawn.

Ha! Walter dislikes the taste of his own piss. How surprising.

Yawn.

124 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:54:14pm

re: #117 Cato the Elder

Nimed's comments remind me of the recent posters here who say Israel should just take it in stride when Hamas shoots "glorified fireworks" (quote from Dr. Cordell) into her territory.

The same people will say the same thing when (not if) Hezbollah starts sending in those Scuds.

I'm damned glad we caught this turd and that his amateur bomb didn't go off. But apparently he just rearrived here from Pakistan. That tells me something.

Oh, but let's not lash out, and certainly let's not make a big deal of it if the next guy has better luck.

Feh.

Indeed.

125 Varek Raith  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:54:24pm

re: #122 SanFranciscoZionist

I wonder if they heard about it and claimed responsibility before all the info came in. 'Car bomb in New York' sounded good.

They might as well just come out of their caves and paint targets on their asses.

126 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:55:20pm

re: #105 JamesWI

I'm wondering exactly why the Pakistani Taliban is so eager to take credit for this attempt. You don't exactly seem like the most competent, menacing terror organization when your bombs consist of non-explosive fertilizer and Roman Candles.

Don't forget that the ISI-cozy group Lashkar e Taibi was involved in the Mumbai attack and that one was all too competent. Once in a while, even enemies that make the WWII Italians look like professionals will score. Of course, with NYC being a concealed carry state where 3% of the population goes armed, they wouldn't have a chance doing anything of the sort in TSq.

/NYC isn't??

127 avanti  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:55:47pm

re: #107 Bagua

Good that you had the sense to not have your fun in Times Square.

I agree, the worse I did was turn night into day in the school parking lot with about a pound of my secret mixture. Just melted a bit of asphalt. Back in the 50's and 60's, kids never thought of making explosives and the like for anything more than the mythbusters like thrill of making a big boom.
Of course, back then, we had real fireworks too, some like 1/4 sticks could blow off a arm.

128 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:56:11pm

re: #115 lostlakehiker

There's even a scientific paper out explaining that "human capital" (IQ) is highly correlated with success in suicide bombings. Not much human capital invested in this attempt.

It's interesting what makes a suicide bomber fail or succeed. Well, gruesome, but interesting. There was one case of a Palestinian woman who got as far as her target, realized she wasn't going to do it, and turned herself in. The background on how she was recruited shed, at least for me, some light on why it didn't work out.

129 Tigger2005  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:59:38pm

re: #56 Nimed

This may sound hubristic to you, but I'm not very concerned with another terrorist strike, even a successful one. I'm much more worried about people going apeshit - again - with all the risks that entails: another gigantic blunder like the Iraq war, even more liberties curtailed, etc, etc.

I really wish the American people would get used to the idea that we are likely to suffer another successful terrorist attack. If we don't make a big deal out of it, we basically take away the only weapon they have.

Why do you call the Iraq war a giant blunder?

1. A dangerous, unstable dictator has been removed from the world.
2. This dangerous, unstable dictator was in violation of numerous U.N. resolutions. Continuing to let him get away with his crap was making the U.N. an even bigger laughingstock than it already was (and is).
3. The people of Iraq are no longer being tortured, terrorized, slaughtered, and shoveled into mass graves by this dangerous, unstable dictator and his insane sons.
4. Iraq is now a democracy, and an important counterbalance to Iranian dreams of hegemony in the Middle East.
5. We killed a whole lotta Al-Q terrorists in Iraq.

I'm sorry, I just don't see where all of this is a "giant blunder." If you can explain to me how things would be better if we'd just let Saddam be, I'd like to hear it.

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 10:59:39pm

re: #120 yenta-fada

Well, I must be one of those pessimists who self-identify as realists. Oh goody. Nobody got blown up in a homicide bombing attempt in Times Square.// Hollow victory when you know the enemy is out there learning. Just as the current Hezbollah is a very different organization than the 2000 Hezbollah, the enemy can gather strength.

We're in this for the long haul. I see no reason to deny myself a laugh at the expense of someone who came to kill me and mine and failed.

What should I do? Cry?

131 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:00:16pm

re: #116 joest73

Yeah, I'll miss the Dave Barry blog too. It's better than the show. They were talking about which terrible series to blog next season. I've watched '24' since the beginning and we have always thought it was a great comedy. I love the 'wooden dialogue generator' on the blog, and the "drink" whenever the word 'perimeter' appears.

132 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:00:39pm

re: #74 Cato the Elder

It doesn't sound hubristic, it sounds naive and simple-minded.

If we had another successful terrorist attack here, asking people not to make a big deal out of it would be like asking the shrimp fishermen in the Gulf to just shrug off the oil spill and get on with their lives.

If we had a major successful terrorist attack here and it came from Pakistan, I would not be opposed to joining India in all-out war on that nearly failed state.

You really do live in a world of unicorns, don't you?

Ignore the 800lb Gorilla in the room again...

So...uhh...China is going to stand by and watch India absorb Pakistan? Really? You don't think they might be tempted to, you know, interfere maybe? Not even to mention Iran that everyone sees as some kind of middle east Bogey man but has shit for a military besides human wave attacks by religious fanatics.

It would definitely not be in China's best interest (nor Irans) to allow India to expand, and I imagine a lot of the rest of the U.N. would be against it also, Turkey would shit it's pants because they would possibly be next in that case.

Dream on Cato, but the world just isn't quite as simple as when you a youngster playing and spending time with Julias before he became the great conquerer.

133 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:00:47pm

re: #125 Varek Raith

They might as well just come out of their caves and paint targets on their asses.

They HAVE targets on their asses, regardless of whether they put them on themselves or not.

134 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:01:19pm

re: #87 yenta-fada

I don't think your statement sounds like hubris. I think your statement sounds like you are very young. The mere fact that you can "accept" the idea of terrorist attacks in the U.S. is something an old lady like me finds completely foreign as an American mindset. I did not approve of the Iraq War, and in Canada, we did not enter it. However, defending North American freedoms has always come at a price in my lifetime. The fact that it is now on U.S. and Canadian soil is a black mark in my life experience.

But I'm not against any of that. What I accept, and recent history should really inform us about this, is that doing an urge to do something, anything, might have extremely negative consequences. The deaths of US troops in Iraq, not to mention tens of thousands of civilians, are a very good example of this.

135 tradewind  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:01:57pm

re: #110 yenta-fada
Seen it, it is good.

Goodnight ya'll
....Out like the fuse on a jihadi's failed car bomb.

136 avanti  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:02:04pm

I agree that we need to get realistic about another successful attack. Even a small one will cause way more panic than we need. i.e., say 1 or 2 do die in a terrorist attack, we'll talk about that for months, when 11 die on a oil rig, and they are barely mentioned.
Sadly, terrorism may be just another risk we'll never completely eliminate.

137 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:02:21pm

re: #126 lostlakehiker

Don't forget that the ISI-cozy group Lashkar e Taibi was involved in the Mumbai attack and that one was all too competent. Once in a while, even enemies that make the WWII Italians look like professionals will score. Of course, with NYC being a concealed carry state where 3% of the population goes armed, they wouldn't have a chance doing anything of the sort in TSq.

/NYC isn't??

Don't. Don't turn this into some kind of gun law thing.

138 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:02:22pm

re: #121 Nimed

This is just a horrible analogy. You're comparing a very real damage with a mostly psychological one. The oil spill is an actual obstacle that prevents fishermen from doing their work. A terrorist attack isn't for the vast majority of Americans.

You have quickly advanced, in your short time here, from "interesting new commenter" to top-of-the-charts idiot, Nimrod. At least in my books.

There was no need to ground all flights after 9/11. Absolutely none. We knew that within less than 24 hours. Tell me again how the "psychological" factor is negligible.

Terrorism depends entirely on psychology. You would have people not react as people. Maybe you're a robot, but the rest of us aren't. Or most of us aren't. Well, some of us are not robots.

I was describing a desirable state of mind, not the actual one. You're simply conflating the two, I'm not sure why.

May God forbid it should ever happen, but if someone you know gets blown up in the next terror attack on American soil, please take a week off and then come back and display your desirable Zen-like not-making-a-big-deal-out-of-it state of mind.

139 solomonpanting  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:02:43pm

re: #123 Jimmah

Ha! Walter dislikes the taste of his own piss. How surprising.

Yawn.

As opposed to you, who does, apparently.
:O)

140 Varek Raith  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:03:51pm

re: #133 SanFranciscoZionist

They HAVE targets on their asses, regardless of whether they put them on themselves or not.

True.
My comment was rather clumsy.
:)

141 swamprat  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:04:53pm

There is a point of diminishing returns on finding an intelligent person to bomb or suicide-bomb.
If they're really smart, they realize they are working against Islam by promoting a negative image.
They seem to be running out of intelligent, strongly motivated drones.

You may not follow this, or agree, but I blame the internet.

142 solomonpanting  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:05:01pm

re: #56 Nimed

This may sound hubristic to you, but I'm not very concerned with another terrorist strike, even a successful one. I'm much more worried about people going apeshit - again - with all the risks that entails: another gigantic blunder like the Iraq war, even more liberties curtailed, etc, etc.

Perhaps you could list all of those curtailed liberties?

143 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:05:09pm

re: #132 ausador

I said nothing about India "absorbing" Pakistan. Why would they want more Muslims?

144 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:05:54pm

re: #129 Tigger2005

Why do you call the Iraq war a giant blunder?

1. A dangerous, unstable dictator has been removed from the world.
2. This dangerous, unstable dictator was in violation of numerous U.N. resolutions. Continuing to let him get away with his crap was making the U.N. an even bigger laughingstock than it already was (and is).
3. The people of Iraq are no longer being tortured, terrorized, slaughtered, and shoveled into mass graves by this dangerous, unstable dictator and his insane sons.
4. Iraq is now a democracy, and an important counterbalance to Iranian dreams of hegemony in the Middle East.
5. We killed a whole lotta Al-Q terrorists in Iraq.

I'm sorry, I just don't see where all of this is a "giant blunder." If you can explain to me how things would be better if we'd just let Saddam be, I'd like to hear it.

Why don't you explain to these people how great things are now that Saddam isn't in power. Or to the 2 million refugees. Or the 100000 disabled children.

145 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:06:00pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

Don't. Don't turn this into some kind of gun law thing.

Why not? Those Mumbai terrorists would have had a much tougher time in Dallas.

146 stevedecatur  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:06:11pm

Pakistan sounds more and more like India's Mexico

147 Dark_Falcon  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:06:16pm

I'm tired and have to get to bed. Goodnight, all.

148 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:06:30pm

re: #130 SanFranciscoZionist

I wasn't trying to make this personal. You are entitled to your own experience and perception of any event. I see this as an evil act meant to harm innocents. Jack Bauer on "24", now that I find funny if sort of boring.

149 Tigger2005  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:06:57pm

re: #134 Nimed

But I'm not against any of that. What I accept, and recent history should really inform us about this, is that doing an urge to do something, anything, might have extremely negative consequences. The deaths of US troops in Iraq, not to mention tens of thousands of civilians, are a very good example of this.

Saddam tortured, terrorized, and slaughtered his own citizens and shoveled their bodies into mass graves. His regime made daily warfare against the Iraqi people. But folks didn't see this on TV, so it doesn't matter to them. They would have the silent suffering go on, and call it peace.

150 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:07:07pm

I find it interesting that "we" have our knickers in a knot, over a failed " terrorist" bomber, who didn't actually accomplish his/her/it's goal. Yet we aren't POUNDING away on the New Orleans Gulf Oil Disaster. Well, we're not pounding on it, like we are pounding on the bomber story.
Yet, in the long run, the Gulf Oil fiasco will affect more American lives.

Did I miss something?

151 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:07:34pm

re: #147 Dark_Falcon

I'm tired and have to get to bed. Goodnight, all.

Feel better, soon! DF!

152 sagehen  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:07:47pm

re: #129 Tigger2005

Why do you call the Iraq war a giant blunder?
[snip]
I'm sorry, I just don't see where all of this is a "giant blunder." If you can explain to me how things would be better if we'd just let Saddam be, I'd like to hear it.

Because if we'd just let Saddam be (even if only for a year or two), we wouldn't have diverted resources and material from Afghanistan. We could have finished that one up right in the first place, including catching or killing Bin Laden, and been home five years ago.

Also, Abu Ghraib was a recruiting bonanza for the bad guys -- there's a lot more people willing to fight us than there were before.

Also, we've strained relations with most of our allies around the world.

Also, we've made Iran stronger (Iraq used to be their counterbalance).

Also, thousands of dead troops.

Also, $3 Trillion (including the cost of lifetime medical care for wounded vets).

153 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:07:55pm

re: #144 Nimed

Why don't you explain to these people how great things are now that Saddam isn't in power. Or to the 2 million refugees. Or the 100000 disabled children.

Did you pull those numbers out of your ass the discredited Lancet article?

154 Gus  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:08:16pm

re: #137 SanFranciscoZionist

Don't. Don't turn this into some kind of gun law thing.

Yeah but if they had concealed carry in NY then someone could have killed a Nissan Pathfinder!

/

155 Varek Raith  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:09:11pm

re: #154 Gus 802

Yeah but if they had concealed carry in NY then someone could have killed a Nissan Pathfinder!

/

Hey! Grenades can be easily concealed!

156 engineer cat  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:10:03pm

The estimated population of Pakistan in 2010 was over 169,401,500 making it the world's sixth most-populous country, behind Brazil and ahead of Russia.

An April 2009 estimate of the total Iraqi population is 31,234,000

scale up the war recipe accordingly to serve 169 million instead of 31 million

157 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:10:21pm

re: #21 yenta-fada

The fact that this jihadi was "not a genius" sounds like a psychological mechanism to diffuse fear. So what that this man wasn't successful. You might be smarter to recognize how easy it is to be a jihadi in the Western world. You have internet sites to inspire and teach you, tame media to act like it's no big deal, and "officials" to point out that the attack was "unsuccessful". I'm not saying that everyone needs to live in fear. However, everyone needs to understand the dangers of radical Islam. This fact is downplayed by the government, including the last one in power. We are vulnerable and the more that concerned citizens (one who recently notified the police when seeing the smoke coming out of the SUV) learn to identify the enemy and react, the safer we will all be.
The message is; use your eyes, ears, mouth, and the brains that God gave you to identify predators instead of making fun of the slow ones.

This sort of attack can never bring down the nation. Most of them will fail, because we are in fact vigilant and because the difficulties in putting together such an attack are many. Off and on, a few of them will succeed. But this is war. The enemy too has a will, and has a vote. We cannot expect to not ever get hit again.

In war, resolve is important. We can't be spooked by the occasional mass casualty event that they bring off. We lose 34000 lives per year in ones and twos and sometimes a few more, to auto accidents. That's "acceptable". Some years it's 35000 or 36000, and that too is "acceptable". The lives we'll lose to terrorism in a fairly bad year wouldn't even show up as a blip in our traffic losses. In our worst year ever, traffic accidents claimed roughly ten times as many lives. This is not to say that we should relax. As with traffic accidents, every reasonable effort should be bent to bringing down the toll. (Not every possible effort, because it doesn't make sense to set speed limits at 35. Life is made of time, and we'd lose more lives in wasted hours getting from here to there than we now lose in accidents if we did that. )

We're hitting them a lot harder than they're hitting us. We have all the technology; they can't make much of anything work even if they buy it from us. We have better intel than they do. Their organizational charts are shredded by X's our Predators have marked in. They've made fresh enemies in Pakistan where they used to have more friends than enemies.

We aren't winning every round. We've made some mistakes. But from the point of view of an Islamist general, if there is such a thing, the news is mostly bad. We just need to stay the course.

158 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:10:58pm

re: #143 Cato the Elder

I said nothing about India "absorbing" Pakistan. Why would they want more Muslims?

So "all out war" against them does not include actually taking them over? Funny I thought that was kind of part of the phrase "all out war" implied. I guess you meant "all out war" until they cried "uncle" or something more benign like that ehh?

159 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:11:26pm

re: #134 Nimed

Again, I'm Canadian and we did not support the Iraq war. However our Universities happily support "Israel Apartheid Week" on their campuses, the Canadian version of CAIR is very successful, we are trying terrorists for attempting to blow up the Houses of Parliament and kill the Prime Minister. Do not blame this on the Iraq War. There is a large and bold Islamist agenda that thrives in Canada regardless of what we do on the international scene. And, of course, Anti-Semitism keeps increasing year by year.

160 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:11:33pm

re: #145 Cato the Elder

Why not? Those Mumbai terrorists would have had a much tougher time in Dallas.

They didn't go to Dallas. And I'm fairly sure that was for reasons besides the concealed-carry law.

I don't need the goddamn snark. "Ooooohhh, New York isn't a concealed carry state? My bad."

You got something to say, you can say it.

161 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:12:43pm

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist

They didn't go to Dallas. And I'm fairly sure that was for reasons besides the concealed-carry law.

I don't need the goddamn snark. "Oooohhh, New York isn't a concealed carry state? My bad."

You got something to say, you can say it.

All right. I'm very sorry Maryland is not a concealed-carry state. Same for New York. Same for every state in the Union.

162 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:12:46pm

re: #148 yenta-fada

I wasn't trying to make this personal. You are entitled to your own experience and perception of any event. I see this as an evil act meant to harm innocents. Jack Bauer on "24", now that I find funny if sort of boring.

No problem.

Now, '24' I haven't seen, but I'm considering putting it on my Netflix. I understand that he can cover half of LA during a commercial break.

163 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:13:20pm

re: #161 Cato the Elder

..."every state in the Union" that's not, I mean.

164 avanti  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:13:21pm

re: #142 solomonpanting

Perhaps you could list all of those curtailed liberties?

OK, here's a minor example of what could happen. Assume the van would have blown and killed a few innocents and we closed Times Square to traffic, canceled the New Years ball drop and searched all shopping bags. IMHO, the terrorist would win if we overreact to every attack.

165 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:13:37pm

re: #139 solomonpanting

As opposed to you, who does, apparently.
:O)

My piss is bottled and sold under the name "Aqua Vita". It's very popular:

Youtube Video
166 windsword  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:13:43pm

re: #158 ausador

All-out war has only occasionally resulted in absorbing the country. Last I checked, Germany and Japan are still independent nations. Hell, even the Nazis left the conquered nations intact, even if they were puppet governments. WW2 was an all-out war if I've ever seen one.

167 swamprat  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:13:49pm

re: #150 Floral Giraffe

I find it interesting that "we" have our knickers in a knot, over a failed " terrorist" bomber, who didn't actually accomplish his/her/it's goal. Yet we aren't POUNDING away on the New Orleans Gulf Oil Disaster. Well, we're not pounding on it, like we are pounding on the bomber story.
Yet, in the long run, the Gulf Oil fiasco will affect more American lives.

Did I miss something?

Yes. It is odd, but the bomb attempt killed no one. The deaths associated with the oil rig are many, but are strangely forgotten. I can't see why. I'm missing what the spin is, or is not. And no, I am not promoting an agenda. Some other commenter pointed this out and I do indeed find it peculiar.

168 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:14:16pm

re: #149 Tigger2005

Saddam tortured, terrorized, and slaughtered his own citizens and shoveled their bodies into mass graves. His regime made daily warfare against the Iraqi people. But folks didn't see this on TV, so it doesn't matter to them. They would have the silent suffering go on, and call it peace.

And if Saddam had not been seen as a resolvable threat to the U.S. that would have gone on until he keeled over of natural causes at 97.

I do not disagree with your portrayal of his regime. But we ain't never invaded nowhere just because folks were suffering. Maybe we should.

169 Gus  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:14:32pm

Macho Man - Village People

Youtube Video
170 swamprat  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:15:12pm

Good night lizards and lizardettes.

171 Gus  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:15:15pm

Rambo

Youtube Video
172 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:15:15pm

re: #138 Cato the Elder

You have quickly advanced, in your short time here, from "interesting new commenter" to top-of-the-charts idiot, Nimrod. At least in my books.

Nimrod? Really? And you expect people to care about your opinion of them? That's some unicorns right there.

May God forbid it should ever happen, but if someone you know gets blown up in the next terror attack on American soil, please take a week off and then come back and display your desirable Zen-like not-making-a-big-deal-out-of-it state of mind.

This would be a good time to remember how infinitesimally small are the chances of people dying from a terrorist attack. If someone you know dies with peanut butter poisoning, I expect you to be upset. I don't expect everybody to think it's a good idea to invade Lebanon.

173 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:15:19pm

re: #150 Floral Giraffe

I find it interesting that "we" have our knickers in a knot, over a failed " terrorist" bomber, who didn't actually accomplish his/her/it's goal. Yet we aren't POUNDING away on the New Orleans Gulf Oil Disaster. Well, we're not pounding on it, like we are pounding on the bomber story.
Yet, in the long run, the Gulf Oil fiasco will affect more American lives.

Did I miss something?

ACT OF GOD, can't be helped, these things happen sometimes, blah, blah, blah...

It mostly gets a pass because it is a fuck-up rather than an overt act...

174 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:15:21pm

re: #149 Tigger2005

Saddam tortured, terrorized, and slaughtered his own citizens and shoveled their bodies into mass graves. His regime made daily warfare against the Iraqi people. But folks didn't see this on TV, so it doesn't matter to them. They would have the silent suffering go on, and call it peace.

Indeed. For all the moral price we've paid in Iraq, and the material price, why not count in their whole the consequences of having extended business as usual with respect to Iraq? Sanctions, no-fly zones, and the regular ongoing eradication of the marsh Arabs and other unreliable elements. When all is said and done, and the "wrap" on history is written, the Iraqis will not curse the day we cut that Gordian knot.

175 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:15:42pm

re: #150 Floral Giraffe

I find it interesting that "we" have our knickers in a knot, over a failed " terrorist" bomber, who didn't actually accomplish his/her/it's goal. Yet we aren't POUNDING away on the New Orleans Gulf Oil Disaster. Well, we're not pounding on it, like we are pounding on the bomber story.
Yet, in the long run, the Gulf Oil fiasco will affect more American lives.

Did I miss something?

I don't really know what to say about it. Eleven men are dead. The Gulf is full of oil. BP appears frantic. I don't know exactly what this means, if anything, for U.S. energy policy.

I worry about the oily animals. And the fishermen. And, you know, all of it.

176 Gus  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:15:57pm

Red Dawn - Invasion Begins

Youtube Video
177 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:16:51pm

re: #154 Gus 802

Yeah but if they had concealed carry in NY then someone could have killed a Nissan Pathfinder!

/

I'm pretty sure there are a fair number of people walking the streets of New York with concealed weapons.

"There are parts of New York I would advise the Reich not to attempt to invade."

178 sagehen  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:17:44pm

re: #126 lostlakehiker

Don't forget that the ISI-cozy group Lashkar e Taibi was involved in the Mumbai attack and that one was all too competent. Once in a while, even enemies that make the WWII Italians look like professionals will score. Of course, with NYC being a concealed carry state where 3% of the population goes armed, they wouldn't have a chance doing anything of the sort in TSq.

/NYC isn't??

Throughout the 80's and early 90's, NYC used to have more than 2000 murders a year (with maybe 30% solve rate). Bratton (starting under Dinkens, continuing under Giuliani) started doing serious gun control in 91... the murder rate has gone down every year since. Nowadays it's around 500 a year, with a better than 70% solve rate.

And if anybody did try a mumbai... are you aware we've got more than 30,000 cops? That's an army. Plus a bunch of FBI, and there's more licensed weapons in civilian hands than you might think -- we're just fussy about making people pass a safety test and a marksmanship test before handing out the licenses. Hotel security, office building security, banks, couriers, bodyguards, etc.

We like it this way. We'd rather not have every random yahoo packing.

179 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:18:04pm

re: #161 Cato the Elder

All right. I'm very sorry Maryland is not a concealed-carry state. Same for New York. Same for every state in the Union.

Fair enough.

180 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:18:04pm

re: #153 Cato the Elder

Did you pull those numbers out of your ass the discredited Lancet article?

Click on the link again. Then look at the pretty table. There are several estimates besides the one from the Lancet article. Pick the lowest one if you like.

I guess if it's "just" 110,600 people, it's not a big deal.

181 Silvergirl  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:18:05pm

re: #150 Floral Giraffe

I find it interesting that "we" have our knickers in a knot, over a failed " terrorist" bomber, who didn't actually accomplish his/her/it's goal. Yet we aren't POUNDING away on the New Orleans Gulf Oil Disaster. Well, we're not pounding on it, like we are pounding on the bomber story.
Yet, in the long run, the Gulf Oil fiasco will affect more American lives.

Did I miss something?

Isn't it human nature to go on alert when someone means to do harm? The oil disaster is a horrible accident, and will affect many lives, just as you say. But if an enemy dumped it on purpose we would be pounding away quite a bit more.

182 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:18:55pm

re: #160 SanFranciscoZionist

They didn't go to Dallas. And I'm fairly sure that was for reasons besides the concealed-carry law.

I don't need the goddamn snark. "Oooohhh, New York isn't a concealed carry state? My bad."

You got something to say, you can say it.

Israel goes armed. I think that's smart. It's a logical step when facing the kind of threat Israel faces. I admire them for doing that and I wonder that so many of us consider armed civilians a backward and provincial stupidity. What sort of civilians do they think we have?

183 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:19:17pm

re: #168 SanFranciscoZionist

And if Saddam had not been seen as a resolvable threat to the U.S. that would have gone on until he keeled over of natural causes at 97.

I do not disagree with your portrayal of his regime. But we ain't never invaded nowhere just because folks were suffering. Maybe we should.

But we always say we're invading someplace because folks are suffering. Remember the bogus Kuwaiti incubators story? How about the pregnant Belgian women bayoneted by invading Germans in 1914? The U.S.S. Maine?

We did not invade Iraq because people were suffering; that's sentimental eyewash for people who can't handle the truth. Whether right or wrong, we invaded for strategic advantage, and whatever "timetables" are set, we'll be there at least as long as our bases remain in Germany.

Which, if you think about what may well happen in Iran, is a damned good thing.

184 engineer cat  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:20:20pm

and, apropos of nothing except that i just sent them to some friends of mine, two of my favorite hot jazz warner bros cartoons from the 30s:

shake your powderpuff

katnip kollege

185 solomonpanting  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:20:53pm

re: #164 avanti

OK, here's a minor example of what could happen. Assume the van would have blown and killed a few innocents and we closed Times Square to traffic, canceled the New Years ball drop and searched all shopping bags. IMHO, the terrorist would win if we overreact to every attack.


We already suffer through airport delays, inspections, etc. Should we eliminate these practices?
Here's another hypothetical:

Let's say our friendly neighborhood suspect now in custody has knowledge of another bombing attempt next week. Do we let it happen or waterboard him?

186 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:21:02pm

re: #166 windsword

All-out war has only occasionally resulted in absorbing the country. Last I checked, Germany and Japan are still independent nations. Hell, even the Nazis left the conquered nations intact, even if they were puppet governments. WW2 was an all-out war if I've ever seen one.

Sure Germany is "Independent" now, once the wall fell and it was no longer split into occupied west and east zones...but they still have U.S. bases there, same with Japan, you really think that they were at all independent after the war? You need to brush up on your modern history a bit...

187 lostlakehiker  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:21:49pm

re: #178 sagehen

Throughout the 80's and early 90's, NYC used to have more than 2000 murders a year (with maybe 30% solve rate). Bratton (starting under Dinkens, continuing under Giuliani) started doing serious gun control in 91... the murder rate has gone down every year since. Nowadays it's around 500 a year, with a better than 70% solve rate.

And if anybody did try a mumbai... are you aware we've got more than 30,000 cops? That's an army. Plus a bunch of FBI, and there's more licensed weapons in civilian hands than you might think -- we're just fussy about making people pass a safety test and a marksmanship test before handing out the licenses. Hotel security, office building security, banks, couriers, bodyguards, etc.

We like it this way. We'd rather not have every random yahoo packing.

Me either. Serious license controls are a legitimate answer to gun murders. From outside NYC, I'd guess yours are stricter than optimal but lax rules are laxer than optimal. In a federal republic, we leave such decisions to the locals and they're more likely to get it right than any national law would.

188 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:21:50pm

re: #162 SanFranciscoZionist

"24" is a mere shadow of itself in former years. I really do think it is only tolerable if viewed as a comedy. My understanding is that it also improves with alcoholic beverages.
I can, however, recommend a few BBC detective series. The old, but still good Jeremy Brett version of Sherlock Holmes. The 'Inspector Morse' series set in Oxford. The Inspector Lynley series based on Elizabeth George's mysteries. Also, if you haven't seen "Rome", an HBO/BBC series, it is wonderful.

189 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:21:58pm
190 sagehen  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:22:33pm

re: #164 avanti

OK, here's a minor example of what could happen. Assume the van would have blown and killed a few innocents and we closed Times Square to traffic, canceled the New Years ball drop and searched all shopping bags. IMHO, the terrorist would win if we overreact to every attack.


If the TSA were running New York

"How would it respond to this weekend's Times Square bomb threat? Well, by extrapolation from its response to the 9/11 attacks and subsequent threats, the policy would be:

- All vans or SUVs headed into Midtown Manhattan would have to stop and have their contents inspected. If any vehicle seemed for any reason to have escaped inspection, Midtown in its entirety would be evacuated;"

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:23:45pm

re: #182 lostlakehiker

Israel goes armed. I think that's smart. It's a logical step when facing the kind of threat Israel faces. I admire them for doing that and I wonder that so many of us consider armed civilians a backward and provincial stupidity. What sort of civilians do they think we have?

Most Israeli civilians in urban areas don't carry guns. Soldiers do, reservists doing their service do, and security personnel. Folks out in the more vulnerable areas of the West Bank do. But I know no civilian who walks around Tel Aviv armed on their way to their job at the hair salon.

192 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:24:08pm

re: #149 Tigger2005

Saddam tortured, terrorized, and slaughtered his own citizens and shoveled their bodies into mass graves. His regime made daily warfare against the Iraqi people. But folks didn't see this on TV, so it doesn't matter to them. They would have the silent suffering go on, and call it peace.

This would be a good time to remember that while he did those things, mostly before 1995, we didn't decide to invade Iraq.

193 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:24:26pm
194 Cato the Elder  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:24:35pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

Most Israeli civilians in urban areas don't carry guns. Soldiers do, reservists doing their service do, and security personnel. Folks out in the more vulnerable areas of the West Bank do. But I know no civilian who walks around Tel Aviv armed on their way to their job at the hair salon.

I know plenty. Concealed carry.

195 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:24:44pm

re: #175 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't really know what to say about it. Eleven men are dead. The Gulf is full of oil. BP appears frantic. I don't know exactly what this means, if anything, for U.S. energy policy.

I worry about the oily animals. And the fishermen. And, you know, all of it.

Yes, me too.
I wish I had something concrete to do, to help.

196 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:25:13pm
197 Silvergirl  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:26:03pm

re: #196 windsword

Nice to have a new member, John! I'm also pretty new. Hope you like it here as much as I do!

I haven't met you yet. Are you cousin to windsagio?

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:26:20pm

re: #183 Cato the Elder

But we always say we're invading someplace because folks are suffering. Remember the bogus Kuwaiti incubators story? How about the pregnant Belgian women bayoneted by invading Germans in 1914? The U.S.S. Maine?

We did not invade Iraq because people were suffering; that's sentimental eyewash for people who can't handle the truth. Whether right or wrong, we invaded for strategic advantage, and whatever "timetables" are set, we'll be there at least as long as our bases remain in Germany.

Which, if you think about what may well happen in Iran, is a damned good thing.

I have a pet peeve about people who talk about how important a U.S. presence in Afghanistan is--to help the women oppressed by the Taliban.

We didn't give a good goddamn about the women of Afghanistan until 9/11. And yes, feminist groups did. I was on their mailing lists. But we went nowhere until it was a matter of US national interest.

I can deal with that, just don't tell me we had to go to save the little girls who want to go to school. They would have grown old and died of childbearing at 30 if we hadn't found a sudden vested interest in that corner of the world.

199 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:26:21pm
200 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:26:46pm

re: #171 Gus 802

Rambo


[Video]

Heh. Bad of you to mock the guy who single-handedly won the Vietnam war ;) Although, of course, the historical record would be incomplete without this:

Youtube Video
201 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:27:37pm

re: #185 solomonpanting

We already suffer through airport delays, inspections, etc. Should we eliminate these practices?
Here's another hypothetical:

Let's say our friendly neighborhood suspect now in custody has knowledge of another bombing attempt next week. Do we let it happen or waterboard him?

OH NO!! It's the 'we certainly know that he has certain knowledge of a terrorist attack, can we torture him already?' debate question!!!

Has this ever happened in the history of the world, first off? ;)

202 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:28:09pm

re: #188 yenta-fada

"24" is a mere shadow of itself in former years. I really do think it is only tolerable if viewed as a comedy. My understanding is that it also improves with alcoholic beverages.
I can, however, recommend a few BBC detective series. The old, but still good Jeremy Brett version of Sherlock Holmes. The 'Inspector Morse' series set in Oxford. The Inspector Lynley series based on Elizabeth George's mysteries. Also, if you haven't seen "Rome", an HBO/BBC series, it is wonderful.

I saw 'Rome' and quite agree. I'll check out the others.

203 windsword  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:28:28pm

re: #197 Silvergirl

I haven't met you yet. Are you cousin to windsagio?


No, although I've noticed the similarity. I'll ctrl f "winds" to see if anyone quoted/ replied to my comment, only to get all his(/her?) posts too.

204 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:29:01pm
205 Ayeless in Ghazi  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:29:43pm

I could stay here with you good folks all night, but, on balance, I have to say that bed with iceweasel seems a happier prospect.

Night all:)

206 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:29:50pm
207 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:30:21pm

re: #134 Nimed

I'm going to turn into Spock and say that your statement is not logical. By all means, consider the consequences of an action, but don't sit there and wait for the next thing to happen without making PLANS. We have analytical minds. I say use them for survival along with enlightenment. They are not mutually exclusive.

208 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:30:42pm

re: #159 yenta-fada

Again, I'm Canadian and we did not support the Iraq war. However our Universities happily support "Israel Apartheid Week" on their campuses, the Canadian version of CAIR is very successful, we are trying terrorists for attempting to blow up the Houses of Parliament and kill the Prime Minister. Do not blame this on the Iraq War. There is a large and bold Islamist agenda that thrives in Canada regardless of what we do on the international scene. And, of course, Anti-Semitism keeps increasing year by year.

yenta-fada, again, I don't disagree with you. What I was trying to say in my first post is that the reaction of the American people to a successful terrorist attack will probably have worse consequences than the attack itself. That's it.

209 solomonpanting  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:30:42pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

OH NO!! It's the 'we certainly know that he has certain knowledge of a terrorist attack, can we torture him already?' debate question!!!

Has this ever happened in the history of the world, first off? ;)

If I told you the CIA, Special Forces, and Black Ops would be upset.

210 sagehen  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:31:00pm

re: #191 SanFranciscoZionist

Most Israeli civilians in urban areas don't carry guns. Soldiers do, reservists doing their service do, and security personnel. Folks out in the more vulnerable areas of the West Bank do. But I know no civilian who walks around Tel Aviv armed on their way to their job at the hair salon.

And even if they did -- they're all combat veterans, so I'm pretty sure they know how to use those weapons should they need to.

(they do mostly have weapons at home; there's apparently an "issue" with people not returning their military gear when their time is up....)

211 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:31:15pm

re: #195 Floral Giraffe

Yes, me too.
I wish I had something concrete to do, to help.

Put all your fans outside and blow them due south, perhaps if enough people do that we can counteract the Gulf Breezes and blow the oil back offshore...

/short of that you could send some "dawn" dishwashing liquid to the Suncoast seabird sanctuary to help clean oiled birds, and/or some pepto bismal to try to flush out their systems...

212 solomonpanting  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:32:38pm

re: #201 SanFranciscoZionist

Has this ever happened in the history of the world, first off? ;)

I hear it was successful with KSM.

213 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:33:09pm

re: #205 Jimmah

I could stay here with you good folks all night, but, on balance, I have to say that bed with iceweasel seems a happier prospect.

Night all:)

Yes, do fuck off.

214 yenta-fada  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:33:26pm

Very late. Must. brush. remaining. teeth.

215 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:33:43pm

re: #194 Cato the Elder

I know plenty. Concealed carry.

What's their business, or background? It used to, at least, be fairly hard to get a permit, and as of 2002, I find, only 265,000 Israelis owned guns.

216 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:34:00pm

re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist

I have a pet peeve about people who talk about how important a U.S. presence in Afghanistan is--to help the women oppressed by the Taliban.

We didn't give a good goddamn about the women of Afghanistan until 9/11. And yes, feminist groups did. I was on their mailing lists. But we went nowhere until it was a matter of US national interest.

I can deal with that, just don't tell me we had to go to save the little girls who want to go to school. They would have grown old and died of childbearing at 30 if we hadn't found a sudden vested interest in that corner of the world.

The amount of rationalization that goes into with this stuff is pretty impressive.

217 Peter Kaufman  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:35:17pm

Sounds like good police work. Remember, Tim McVeigh was pulled over because the car he was driving, was missing a license plate.

Peter

218 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:36:00pm

re: #212 solomonpanting

I hear it was successful with KSM.

You heard wrong

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:36:14pm

re: #210 sagehen

And even if they did -- they're all combat veterans, so I'm pretty sure they know how to use those weapons should they need to.

(they do mostly have weapons at home; there's apparently an "issue" with people not returning their military gear when their time is up...)

There was a wonderful story in the JPost a few years ago, featuring a little old lady who, during her Passover cleaning of her Jerusalem apartment, found a hand grenade.

She called the cops, and they came and removed it for her. I've always wondered if her grandson was in trouble for losing it on leave.

220 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:37:11pm

re: #212 solomonpanting

I hear it was successful with KSM.

This one is a US citizen.

221 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:37:18pm

re: #207 yenta-fada

I'm going to turn into Spock and say that your statement is not logical. By all means, consider the consequences of an action, but don't sit there and wait for the next thing to happen without making PLANS. We have analytical minds. I say use them for survival along with enlightenment. They are not mutually exclusive.

For sure. I just found it a bit strange that I was making a point about the public reaction in the aftermath of a terrorist attack and people started talking about Bill Clinton and unicorns and "not hitting back".

222 sagehen  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:38:10pm

re: #219 SanFranciscoZionist

There was a wonderful story in the JPost a few years ago, featuring a little old lady who, during her Passover cleaning of her Jerusalem apartment, found a hand grenade.

She called the cops, and they came and removed it for her. I've always wondered if her grandson was in trouble for losing it on leave.

Not the afikomen? Whoops.

223 Bagua  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:40:44pm

re: #222 sagehen

Not the afikomen? Whoops.

Wrong holiday, it was a metal esrog.

224 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:40:49pm
225 solomonpanting  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:41:54pm

re: #218 ausador

You heard wrong

No, really, I heard wid mine own two earballs.

227 engineer cat  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:45:03pm

what a serious bunch!

the thing that bothers me the most about our response to terrorists has to do with how logical it seems to some people that the best way to combat it is to give away our constitutional rights via the "patriot" act

it would seem to be that this would be exactly what the terrorists would want to make us do

228 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:48:26pm
229 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:49:10pm
230 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:50:06pm
231 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:50:34pm

re: #198 SanFranciscoZionist

I have a pet peeve about people who talk about how important a U.S. presence in Afghanistan is--to help the women oppressed by the Taliban.

We didn't give a good goddamn about the women of Afghanistan until 9/11. And yes, feminist groups did. I was on their mailing lists. But we went nowhere until it was a matter of US national interest.

I can deal with that, just don't tell me we had to go to save the little girls who want to go to school. They would have grown old and died of childbearing at 30 if we hadn't found a sudden vested interest in that corner of the world.

How about a 31 year old African-American woman who already has 15 children and was evicted from her apartment for having too many children there and who after becoming "homeless," they were not homeless they were in a hotel, child services swarmed her and then was sent to jail because she refused to answer a judge as to whether or not she was pregnant again and if so who the possible father was.

(I still have a very hard time with the math, I'm not trying to sound sexist or anything but...31 years old and apparently pregnant for the 16th time? My God!)

232 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:51:25pm

re: #223 Bagua

Wrong holiday, it was a metal esrog.

Don't bite off the pitom. Not before the holiday is over. Not after the holiday is over. At no time.

233 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:51:56pm
234 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:52:27pm
235 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:53:47pm

re: #231 ausador

Just sayin, we still have some problems here of our own that need some work, doesn't mean we can't also work on the overseas stuff too. Just that perhaps we need to have a bit more concern and a little more attention for what is happening here at home also. ;)

236 windsword  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:53:48pm

re: #231 ausador

How about a 31 year old African-American woman who already has 15 children and was evicted from her apartment for having too many children there and who after becoming "homeless," they were not homeless they were in a hotel, child services swarmed her and then was sent to jail because she refused to answer a judge as to whether or not she was pregnant again and if so who the possible father was.

(I still have a very hard time with the math, I'm not trying to sound sexist or anything but...31 years old and apparently pregnant for the 16th time? My God!)


That's and oddly specific story...

I guess we all know who the father is...
/

237 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:54:56pm
238 [deleted]  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:56:23pm
239 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:56:26pm

re: #231 ausador

How about a 31 year old African-American woman who already has 15 children and was evicted from her apartment for having too many children there and who after becoming "homeless," they were not homeless they were in a hotel, child services swarmed her and then was sent to jail because she refused to answer a judge as to whether or not she was pregnant again and if so who the possible father was.

(I still have a very hard time with the math, I'm not trying to sound sexist or anything but...31 years old and apparently pregnant for the 16th time? My God!)

That's a very fertile lady, by any standard. Close to a pregnancy a year since menarche is what we're talking here. I wonder if she breast-feeds. If she does, that's even more astonishing. Makes Mrs. Duggar look like an amateur.

(Does this relate to Afghanistan, or is it just something you saw in the paper and were horrified by?)

240 sagehen  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:59:15pm

re: #231 ausador

How about a 31 year old African-American woman who already has 15 children and was evicted from her apartment for having too many children there and who after becoming "homeless," they were not homeless they were in a hotel, child services swarmed her and then was sent to jail because she refused to answer a judge as to whether or not she was pregnant again and if so who the possible father was.

(I still have a very hard time with the math, I'm not trying to sound sexist or anything but...31 years old and apparently pregnant for the 16th time? My God!)


Wow. And if she was white and christian and gave all the kids names that start with J, she'd get a TV show.

(p.s. are you sure there was 16 pregnancies? Maybe some were adopted and others were twins...)

241 Nimed  Mon, May 3, 2010 11:59:49pm

It's beyond me that so many people still expect the invasion of Iraq to be retroactively validated. It was a mistake with worst consequences than 9/11 itself on a wide range of measures. And it was clearly a product of the post-9/11 environment: a disastrous government, an apathetic Congress, a scared/enraged public, and a lazy and excessively deferential media.

242 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:04:00am

re: #237 engineer dog

My chief problem with the Ptriot Act is our right to "petition for the redress of grievances".

A lot of people who are searched under the Patriot Act are not even aware of having been searched, nor can they find out who issued orders to do so. That makes it impossible for them to petition for redress if something goes wrong.

And we know that fighting terror is a noble cause, but we are humans, we make mistakes, and there can even be cases of abuse of power. That is the point of our Constitution: allowing people a lever against such abuses.

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:04:53am

re: #240 sagehen

Wow. And if she was white and christian and gave all the kids names that start with J, she'd get a TV show.

(p.s. are you sure there was 16 pregnancies? Maybe some were adopted and others were twins...)

Twins or adopted children would certainly speed things up. But some people just are really, really fertile, and some women really enjoy being pregnant.

Of course, there's always the Octomom or Gosselin thing, where you have serious multiples.

244 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:06:42am
245 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:07:00am

re: #242 ralphieboy

A lot of people who are searched under the Patriot Act are not even aware of having been searched

yes - this is very disturbing

And we know that fighting terror is a noble cause

and somehow we managed to do it for over 200 years before without such constitutional damage. why now?

246 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:13:47am
247 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:15:20am
248 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:19:46am

re: #239 SanFranciscoZionist

That's a very fertile lady, by any standard. Close to a pregnancy a year since menarche is what we're talking here. I wonder if she breast-feeds. If she does, that's even more astonishing. Makes Mrs. Duggar look like an amateur.

(Does this relate to Afghanistan, or is it just something you saw in the paper and were horrified by?)

It is a local ongoing story, the news thought they were helping by telling the story of the poor woman with 12 children still living with her who was evicted and was now in a hotel. Instead all they did was get child services down on her and now she is in jail and the kids are split up in foster homes. She is being held for contempt of the court because she refuses to answer the judges questions about whether she is pregnant and who the father is this time...

Sigh...

(It only relates to Afghanistan in my own mind perhaps, when you talk about womens rights and how only now during the war does anyone care..,what about the women here still getting the short end of the stick?)

249 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:21:37am
250 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:23:54am

re: #248 ausador

It is a local ongoing story, the news thought they were helping by telling the story of the poor woman with 12 children still living with her who was evicted and was now in a hotel. Instead all they did was get child services down on her and now she is in jail and the kids are split up in foster homes. She is being held for contempt of the court because she refuses to answer the judges questions about whether she is pregnant and who the father is this time...

Sigh...

(It only relates to Afghanistan in my own mind perhaps, when you talk about womens rights and how only now during the war does anyone care..,what about the women here still getting the short end of the stick?)

If THE USA had been concerned about the rights of Afghan women, we would not have objected so vehemently to the Soviet Invasion in 1979: they guaranteed equal rights and education for all Afghan women.

Instead, we helped kick out the Soviets and send Afghan women back to the Middle Ages.

251 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:23:55am
252 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:26:09am
253 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:28:44am

Will we be allowed to try this guy in New York?

254 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:30:13am
255 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:33:09am
256 ClaudeMonet  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:33:28am

re: #150 Floral Giraffe

I find it interesting that "we" have our knickers in a knot, over a failed " terrorist" bomber, who didn't actually accomplish his/her/it's goal. Yet we aren't POUNDING away on the New Orleans Gulf Oil Disaster. Well, we're not pounding on it, like we are pounding on the bomber story.
Yet, in the long run, the Gulf Oil fiasco will affect more American lives.

Did I miss something?

The world revolves around NYC, or didn't you get the memo?
New York vs. "somewhere out in the water".
Easier and cheaper to shoot video of nothing in Times Square than in the Gulf.
More people in NYC than "out there somewhere".
Better visuals.
Closer to DC.
More photo opps for more politicians.
Shrapnel has more "sizzle" than shrimp.

257 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:34:37am

re: #250 ralphieboy

If THE USA had been concerned about the rights of Afghan women, we would not have objected so vehemently to the Soviet Invasion in 1979: they guaranteed equal rights and education for all Afghan women.

Instead, we helped kick out the Soviets and send Afghan women back to the Middle Ages.

But but but, that would have meant they were forced to live under COMMUNISM!!11!

Naw, more seriously it wasn't that, the "soviets" were trying to establish a physical presence in the middle east, we opposed that. Of course now that we have gone and done the same thing it seems a bit hypocritical, at least superficially. ;)

258 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:34:41am

Published on Monday, July 21, 2003 by the New York Times
Report on USA Patriot Act Alleges Civil Rights Violations
by Philip Shehon

A report by internal investigators at the Justice Department has identified dozens of recent cases in which department employees have been accused of serious civil rights and civil liberties violations involving enforcement of the sweeping federal antiterrorism law known as the USA Patriot Act.

The inspector general's report, which was presented to Congress last week and is awaiting public release, is likely to raise new concern among lawmakers about whether the Justice Department can police itself when its employees are accused of violating the rights of Muslim and Arab immigrants and others swept up in terrorism investigations under the 2001 law.

The report said that in the six-month period that ended on June 15, the inspector general's office had received 34 complaints of civil rights and civil liberties violations by department employees that it considered credible, including accusations that Muslim and Arab immigrants in federal detention centers had been beaten.

The accused workers are employed in several of the agencies that make up the Justice Department, with most of them assigned to the Bureau of Prisons, which oversees federal penitentiaries and detention centers.

The report said that credible accusations were also made against employees of the F.B.I., the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Immigration and Naturalization Service; most of the immigration agency was consolidated earlier this year into the Department of Homeland Security.

A spokeswoman for the Justice Department, Barbara Comstock, said tonight that the department "takes its obligations very seriously to protect civil rights and civil liberties, and the small number of credible allegations will be thoroughly investigated."

Ms. Comstock noted that the department was continuing to review accusations made last month in a separate report by the inspector general, Glenn A. Fine, that found broader problems in the department's treatment of hundreds of illegal immigrants rounded up after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

[Link: www.commondreams.org...]

259 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:36:52am

2007 US Justice Department audit finds FBI abuse of PATRIOT act powers
Search Wikinews Wikinews has related news: U.S. Justice Department says FBI misused USA PATRIOT Act

On March 9, 2007, a Justice Department audit found that the FBI had "improperly and, in some cases, illegally used the USA PATRIOT Act to secretly obtain personal information" about United States citizens. [1]

On June 15, 2007, following an internal audit finding that FBI agents abused the USA PATRIOT Act power more than 1000 times, U.S. District Judge John D. Bates ordered the agency to begin turning over thousands of pages of documents related to the agency's national security letters program.[2]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

260 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:37:44am

"howling moonbat"

surely you can do better than that...

261 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:38:14am
262 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:38:55am

I sense goalposts being moved...

263 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:40:25am

Inspector General Glenn Fine is required, as part of the anti-terrorism Patriot Act passed by Congress after the September 11, 2001 attacks, to give a report every six months related to claims of civil rights or civil liberties violations allegedly committed by Justice Department employees.

The report is a compilation of complaints received by the inspector general's office and includes some allegations previously detailed in its in-depth and critical report released in April about the treatment of immigration detainees arrested as part of the September 11 probe.

For the period of December 16 to June 15, 34 allegations were deemed credible and are being investigated by various officials within the department. Those 34 were among 1,073 complaints received during the period that suggested a Patriot Act-related civil rights or civil liberties connection.

[Link: www.cnn.com...]

264 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:42:26am
265 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:42:55am
266 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:43:33am

but my main point is not that there have been violations of civil liberties that are beyond even what the "patriot" act allows -

the main point is that the "patriot" act violates what is plainly stated in the 4th amendment. again, the 4th amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

and a description of some provisions of the "patriot" act:

searches through which law enforcement officers search a home or business without the owner’s or the occupant’s permission or knowledge; the expanded use of National Security Letters, which allows the FBI to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order

now, how can you not see that the "patriot" act cuts back the 4th amendment?

267 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:44:21am

NBC's Pete Williams earlier reported the man's name was on an e-mail that was sent to the seller of the car last month, as well as other evidence suggesting he had a role in the attempted bombing.

Mr. Shahzad, you are a dumb shit. You're so fucking dumb that I feel dumber after reading about how terribly stupid you are. I hope your Allah will take good care of you behind bars because no one else will. Our species will be better off without you.

That said I feel I should thank you for being so pathetically brain-dead that you managed to not blow up a car-bomb and not get away with it.

268 sagehen  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:47:09am

re: #256 ClaudeMonet

The world revolves around NYC, or didn't you get the memo?
New York vs. "somewhere out in the water".
Easier and cheaper to shoot video of nothing in Times Square than in the Gulf.
More people in NYC than "out there somewhere".
Better visuals.
Closer to DC.
More photo opps for more politicians.
Shrapnel has more "sizzle" than shrimp.


Closer to DC probably doesn't matter; just down the block from network headquarters, on the other hand....

269 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:48:21am
270 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:48:57am

Shazaam!

271 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:49:47am

re: #257 ausador

But but but, that would have meant they were forced to live under COMMUNISM!!11!

Naw, more seriously it wasn't that, the "soviets" were trying to establish a physical presence in the middle east, we opposed that. Of course now that we have gone and done the same thing it seems a bit hypocritical, at least superficially. ;)

Point is that "women's rights" were simply used as window dressing to sell the Politics of Empire.

272 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:49:50am
273 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:50:11am
274 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:51:28am
275 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:52:11am
276 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:54:21am
277 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:56:00am

When Hatchlings Attack!

278 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:56:30am

re: #273 ausador

It is like Chicken Little running around screaming that the sky is falling while all the adults look on in mild bemusement. "They" are going to take over the government and turn it Facist overnight somehow

this is exactly what i hear from the teabaggers every day: obama is a fascist and they are going to take away our civil rights

but somehow when somebody says the same thing about a bush era action, it's chicken little

279 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:57:34am

re: #273 ausador

Plus they have no idea of the long and "cherished" history of flagrant constitutional abuse by our government. Or do they think that all of FBI files and wiretaps have always been legal and court authorized?

It is like Chicken Little running around screaming that the sky is falling while all the adults look on in mild bemusement. "They" are going to take over the government and turn it Facist overnight somehow. After they somehow suceed all of us dumb "sheeple" will just sit here and accept a police state because we are all afraid to question or demonstrate against the government...

Effing please...who really thinks we are going to let that happen here, or that the government is stupid enough to think that we would allow it? Engineer needs to lay off the math and study some history I think...

:-) :-) :-)

oh! would you like to debate history with me? go right ahead - you start

280 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:58:17am

you guys are all scoffing, and no evidence or answers

281 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:58:42am

re: #277 JasonA

When Hatchlings Attack!

Image: popcorn.jpg

282 Bagua  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:58:57am

The Patriot Act eated my freedoms!!1!!

283 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:59:52am
284 Bagua  Tue, May 4, 2010 12:59:59am

re: #280 engineer dog

you guys are all scoffing, and no evidence or answers

Us guys are funny like that.

285 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:00:54am

re: #281 Varek Raith

re: #282 Bagua

oh - my mistake - i thought there were some people here who were capable of debating

286 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:01:16am
287 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:01:38am

re: #285 engineer dog

re: #282 Bagua

oh - my mistake - i thought there were some people here who were capable of debating

Huh?
I have no disputes with your posts.

288 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:02:38am

Wow...tag team MoonBat Concern Trolls...been a while since we have seen this one.

And I trust you heard that Obama ordered the assassination of an American citizen without a trial.

Yeah I'm all effing choked up about a radical Imam who has turned his back on his native country and now preaches that we should be destroyed. He is hiding out in Yemen somewhere last I heard after possibly helping out with the underwear bomber thing. Even if he didn't I have read enough of his own words to know that he is undoubtably a traitor.

Do you know what the legal punishment for a traitor is?

ding, ding, ding...thats right, it is DEATH!

You need to take that kind of shit to the KOS kids or somewhere else, no one wants to hear it here.

289 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:03:28am

incapable of answering questions? not up to debating, only capable of snarking?

well, here it is the middle of the night and i have to get to work in the morning

buh-bye!

290 Bagua  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:03:38am

re: #285 engineer dog

re: #282 Bagua

oh - my mistake - i thought there were some people here who were capable of debating

Definitely your mistake, the late-night crews are often whimsical.

291 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:03:44am

re: #278 engineer dog

It is like Chicken Little running around screaming that the sky is falling while all the adults look on in mild bemusement. "They" are going to take over the government and turn it Facist overnight somehow

this is exactly what i hear from the teabaggers every day: obama is a fascist and they are going to take away our civil rights

but somehow when somebody says the same thing about a bush era action, it's chicken little

Bush has been gone for over a year now, just in case you havn't noticed yet...

292 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:04:36am

re: #287 Varek Raith

Huh?
I have no disputes with your posts.

sorry - i didn't mean to include you in that...

293 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:04:56am

re: #292 engineer dog

sorry - i didn't mean to include you in that...

No problem.
:)

294 engineer cat  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:05:24am

re: #291 ausador

Bush has been gone for over a year now, just in case you havn't noticed yet...

we were debating the "patriot" act. i don't know if you remember, but it was proposed by bush and passed during his administration

295 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:05:58am
296 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:06:17am

re: #290 Bagua

Definitely your mistake, the late-night crews are often whimsical.

I resent that.

297 Bagua  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:07:17am

re: #295 Nimed

Why are you downdinging humour?

298 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:08:36am

re: #296 JasonA

I resent that.

I mean seriously... we're standing right here!

299 Nimed  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:10:37am

re: #288 ausador

Wow...tag team MoonBat Concern Trolls...been a while since we have seen this one.

Yeah I'm all effing choked up about a radical Imam who has turned his back on his native country and now preaches that we should be destroyed. He is hiding out in Yemen somewhere last I heard after possibly helping out with the underwear bomber thing. Even if he didn't I have read enough of his own words to know that he is undoubtably a traitor.

Do you know what the legal punishment for a traitor is?

ding, ding, ding...thats right, it is DEATH!

You need to take that kind of shit to the KOS kids or somewhere else, no one wants to hear it here.

See, there's these weird things in this country, we call them courts, which we occasionally use to access determine when someone did, in fact, commit a crime.

300 Nimed  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:11:48am

re: #297 Bagua

Why are you downdinging humour?

Is that what that was?

301 Bagua  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:14:23am

re: #300 Nimed

Is that what that was?

When you see a post, all bold, with a word like "eated" and "!!!!1!!", that is your clue that the poster was making a funny. You new around here?

302 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:15:24am

re: #301 Bagua

When you see a post, all bold, with a word like "eated" and "!!!1!!", that is your clue that the poster was making a funny. You new around here?

ELEVENTY-ONE!!11!!

303 Nimed  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:17:31am

re: #301 Bagua

When you see a post, all bold, with a word like "eated" and "!!!1!!", that is your clue that the poster was making a funny. You new around here?

People told me to signal sarcasm. Now I know why.

304 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:17:42am

re: #302 Varek Raith

ELEVENTY-ONE!!11!!

BUY GOLD!!!!1111!!!ELEVENDIE!!!

305 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:19:38am

re: #304 JasonA

BUY GOLD!!!1111!!!ELEVENDIE!!!

Gold???
I'm stockpiling bottle caps.
That's the money of the future!

306 sagehen  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:20:32am

re: #283 John_in_AZ

I agree with you. It's getting late here, so I'll say that whatever has been done has been deemed by the courts to be legal. I have yet to hear of one case being tossed on the grounds that the accused rights were violated in any way.

Government held liable in warrantless wiretapping case

"A federal judge ruled Wednesday that the government is liable for illegally wiretapping an Islamic charity without a valid search warrant.
The ruling in Northern California District Court reaffirmed an earlier decision that the warrantless wiretaps conducted on an Oregon-based Islamic non-profit organization were illegal.

In Wednesday's ruling, District Judge Vaughn R. Walker said the government is liable for damages from the illegal wiretapping."

307 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:21:16am

re: #305 Varek Raith

Gold???
I'm stockpiling bottle caps.
That's the money of the future!

I hear their value went way up when plastic caps became all the rage...

308 Bagua  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:21:34am

re: #303 Nimed

People told me to signal sarcasm. Now I know why.

Some posters, I for one, never use the common sarc tag. Yet a post like mine and JasonA's do not need more of a signal.

309 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:22:21am

re: #299 Nimed

See the part where you said "in this Country", that is the part that matters. That traitor is not in this country, he is not wearing the uniform of a foreign army either, therefore by the laws of this country which you just claimed you wished to uphold and also by the international rules of warfare he may be shot on sight, executed by an ad hoc firing squad, or hung from any convenient place a rope will hang from.

All completely legally and within the laws of this country, the President simply said to go ahead and enforce those laws if we get the chance, I don't see much difference between a missile from a predator and a bullet from a firing squad....

310 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:22:43am

re: #308 Bagua

Some posters, I for one, never use the common sarc tag. Yet a post like mine and JasonA's do not need more of a signal.

I try to use common sense. If it's something really bad then I throw one in there.

311 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:23:25am

I'm gonna wander over to my bed. Nite scaly ones.

312 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:23:59am

re: #305 Varek Raith

Gold???
I'm stockpiling bottle caps.

They still make those?

/

313 Bagua  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:24:13am

re: #311 JasonA

I'm gonna wander over to my bed. Nite scaly ones.

Good night!

314 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:24:39am

re: #312 ausador

They still make those?

/

CRAP!!!
If they don't...
MY PLANS ARE RUINED!

315 Bagua  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:26:21am

re: #312 ausador

They still make those?

/

Yep, they have little micro-chips now instead of winning numbers and such. We've been monitoring Varek for some time now, you see, we knew they'd start stockpiling bottle-caps. Almost Pavlovian.

316 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:27:39am

re: #315 Bagua

Yep, they have little micro-chips now instead of winning numbers and such. We've been monitoring Varek for some time now, you see, we knew they'd start stockpiling bottle-caps. Almost Pavlovian.

PFFFTTT, the hangers on my ceiling block the signals...

317 Nimed  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:28:46am

re: #309 ausador

See the part where you said "in this Country", that is the part that matters. That traitor is not in this country, he is not wearing the uniform of a foreign army either, therefore by the laws of this country which you just claimed you wished to uphold and also by the international rules of warfare he may be shot on sight, executed by an ad hoc firing squad, or hung from any convenient place a rope will hang from.

All completely legally and within the laws of this country, the President simply said to go ahead and enforce those laws if we get the chance, I don't see much difference between a missile from a predator and a bullet from a firing squad...

Being in or out of the country is relevant for foreigners, but not U.S. citizens. Our legal protection extends beyond our borders, and uniforms have nothing to do with it.

How do you know he is a traitor?

318 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:34:35am

Sleepy sleepy sleepy.

Night, lizards!

319 Bagua  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:34:55am

re: #316 Varek Raith

PFFFTTT, the hangers on my ceiling block the signals...

Ah yes, the old Patriot Cleaners ploy.

320 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 1:45:00am

re: #317 Nimed

Being in or out of the country is relevant for foreigners, but not U.S. citizens. Our legal protection extends beyond our borders, and uniforms have nothing to do with it.

How do you know he is a traitor?

By his own words and admission that he has published for the entire world to read on the internet, he is not only guilty of treason which is assisting a foreign power against the United States he is also guilty of sedition which is plotting or attempting to overthrow the government of the united states. Both crimes still carry the death penalty.

By being a traitor and being on foreign soil he is liable to "summary execution" so it is perfectly legal for any armed services to execute him. If he was actually wearing the uniform of a foreign armed service then he would be protected by the Geneva Code and have to stand trial before his execution. So yes his wearing a uniform or not does matter, you might want to actually check the law before saying blatantly ignorant things like that.

By the way I know he is a traitor because President Obama's declaration that you are complaining about officially made him one, again all according to the laws and Constitution of this Country.

If you have complaints then campaign to change the 230+ year old laws, don't complain about us using them because you don't think it seems fair or something.

321 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:09:51am
322 nimed  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:16:01am

re: #320 ausador

Jesus.

1- Anwar al-Awlaki admitted to nothing. Advocating violence, or even revolution, is protected speech in our country. Here you go, have a blast
[Link: caselaw.lp.findlaw.com...]

2- Anwar al-Awlaki is not guilty of treason until he is found guilty of treason in trial. Your arguments about "summary execution" and "wearying the uniform" are completely irrelevant, since they only apply to enemy combatants in a battlefield, not American civilians.

323 nimed  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:19:29am

re: #321 John_in_AZ

Yikes!

324 laZardo  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:23:29am

Did I come in at a bad time?

325 nimed  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:23:44am

re: #320 ausador

Are you still online? WTF was 321? John_in_AZ was being kind of an ass before, but now he just exploded in a Palinesque starbust of assholery.

326 nimed  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:27:27am

re: #324 laZardo

Did I come in at a bad time?

Can you tell me what happened to this poor devil?

327 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:27:44am

re: #321 John_in_AZ

Yunno, I joined this site back when it was a lot more conservative, even though I am not very conservative.

But even then I found it a site where civilized people could engage in discourse and where conservative ideas were discussed and not just shouted loud enough to drown all other voices.

I am pleased to say that LGF has retained that atmosphere save for a few folks...

Are we doing Charles a favor by posting on his site? Hardly, he is doing us a favor by running a site to post on. And in the end, it is his sandbox, he can kick us out if he wants. There are lots of other sandboxes out there.

328 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:28:21am

Flounce!

I'm just kinda surprised I have not seen two more of them tonight...

I've been kinda noticing a pattern here, seeing just who would or wouldn't agree with completely moonbat ideology.

329 nimed  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:30:54am

re: #328 ausador

Flounce!

I'm just kinda surprised I have not seen two more of them tonight...

I've been kinda noticing a pattern here, seeing just who would or wouldn't agree with completely moonbat ideology.

You were on his side in this last discussion. Just sayin'...
:)

330 laZardo  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:31:39am

re: #326 nimed

Can you tell me what happened to this poor devil?

...Don't ask me, I just got up here. >_>

331 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:31:47am

re: #327 ralphieboy

Yunno, I joined this site back when it was a lot more conservative, even though I am not very conservative.

But even then I found it a site where civilized people could engage in discourse and where conservative ideas were discussed and not just shouted loud enough to drown all other voices.

I am pleased to say that LGF has retained that atmosphere save for a few folks...

Are we doing Charles a favor by posting on his site? Hardly, he is doing us a favor by running a site to post on. And in the end, it is his sandbox, he can kick us out if he wants. There are lots of other sandboxes out there.

QFT.

332 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:35:11am

Maybe John_in_AZ is just upset because his favorite Mexican resaurant had to close because the entire kitchen staff just got deported...

333 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:35:41am

re: #329 nimed

You were on his side in this last discussion. Just sayin'...
:)

I was on my side, he just happened to be on the same side as me. :p

334 laZardo  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:40:32am

I'm 22 and the level of immaturity that these presumably-older flouncers have never ceases to amaze me. D:

335 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:45:33am

re: #329 nimed

You were on his side in this last discussion. Just sayin'...
:)

Moonbat (Far left) and Wingnut (Far Right) are at opposite ends of the political spectrum BTW.

They are labels reserved for those who take extreme stances on certain issues. If you get called both in the same day your probably actually thinking for yourself, or perhaps you just changed sites from Daily KOS to Free Republic and don't fit in at either place. ;)

///

336 nimed  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:50:21am

I don't get how idiots like this John_in_AZ think. He shows up, mildly annoys other commenters, and waits until everyone is asleep. Then he brakes his keyboard whining about grievances that go back at least 6 years (judging by the reference to Dan Rather). So you basically confessed that you've been obsessed with this stuff for a very long time.

These things are nothing if not homages.

337 laZardo  Tue, May 4, 2010 2:56:43am

Brb, have to pick up my "grade cards" from college.

/fucked up system we have here. ):

338 Gus  Tue, May 4, 2010 3:05:53am

Soap opera.

339 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 3:25:02am

re: #336 nimed

People post somewhere for a while and get comfortable there and feel a sense of membership and ownership. As things change over time they don't like it, some get too wrapped up in tribalism or get too inflated a sense of their place. I have seen it happen a thousand times, and at a lot of different sites, people get agitated and then bitter because the place just isn't exactly how they want it or even remember it to be.

The bitterness boils up and you get blow-ups and flounces, why? Because they aren't in appreciated enough? Because they feel things should be run differently? Because they strongly disagree with a decision of the site owner? Because they don't like change, even the gradually change that has to occur over time? Because of political or religious disputes? All of the above?

It is kinda silly not to mention boorish, you are a guest, you should act like one. Or just quietly go elsewhere or perhaps even start your own damn site if your so sure that you can do it better.

340 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Tue, May 4, 2010 3:42:26am

You just knew it would come up, didn't you?

Try searching for "nuke the oil spill" on Google...
(yes Virginia, some people really are that crazy)

Bwahahahahahahaha...sigh.

341 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 3:49:44am

re: #321 John_in_AZ

Interesting. A late-night visit from the Borgmocrazy itself. With not one, but two links so we can go there ourselves. An invitation, you might say.

It seems they're getting desperate for some love from Charles and the Lizards over there, since pretty much everyone here ignores their existence now.

This one went from "hi, I'm new here" to full-wingnut mental meltdown in 17 posts tonight. And we can't even eat it, because it's a Rodent meat-puppet infected with Mad Speranza Disease.

To make it all more than a bit funny, it thinks "teabagging" is only for gay people and using the term makes one a "liberal homophobe". Got news for you, "John": Republican den-mothers do it to their husbands and boyfriends all the time, because they like it. Why, I bet some of your gal friends at the Swamp are into it big-time.

Epic fail.

342 [deleted]  Tue, May 4, 2010 3:49:59am
343 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 3:53:34am

re: #322 nimed

Jesus.

1- Anwar al-Awlaki admitted to nothing. Advocating violence, or even revolution, is protected speech in our country. Here you go, have a blast
[Link: caselaw.lp.findlaw.com...]

2- Anwar al-Awlaki is not guilty of treason until he is found guilty of treason in trial. Your arguments about "summary execution" and "wearying the uniform" are completely irrelevant, since they only apply to enemy combatants in a battlefield, not American civilians.

You may wish to explain this to President Obama, whose decision in this matter I support.

344 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:07:10am

re: #321 John_in_AZ

At least you're not bitter.

345 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:11:25am

Good Morning LGF.
What? A jihadist? Imagine my surprise!

346 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:14:26am

re: #344 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

At least you're not bitter.

Now that's funny.

347 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:18:12am

re: #321 John_in_AZ

Shove off loser.

348 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:24:15am

So much for sleep...
Sigh

349 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:28:52am

re: #321 John_in_AZ

Charles haunts your very dreams, doesn't he?
How about you just leave? Why go through all the trouble of creating a puppet account just to bitch? Creepy.

350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:40:45am

I find it odd that the inept bomber tried to go back to the ME. Has he no shame? Isn't he embarrassed?

You gotta admit, showing up in your hometown while another entire enemy country is pointing at you and laughing, can not be much fun.

I can only imagine that he has superiors to report to.

351 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:44:07am

re: #350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I find it odd that the inept bomber tried to go back to the ME. Has he no shame? Isn't he embarrassed?

You gotta admit, showing up in your hometown while another entire enemy country is pointing at you and laughing, can not be much fun.

I can only imagine that he has superiors to report to.

Embarassing, yeah, but he certainly would not wanna stick around in America...But let us not snigger too loud, they will be back at it again, and I fear they will not be as inept next time...

352 vinnievin  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:45:10am

re: #321 John_in_AZ

In the immortal words of Kevin Smith:

Rage on, l'il Rager. ROOOOOOOAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRR!!!!

You're so damn cute when you're mad.

353 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:49:59am

Wow. At least we had a real conservative post here today.
///morning honcos

354 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:51:14am

re: #321 John_in_AZ

Looks like I went to ed too early.

355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 4:58:24am

re: #351 ralphieboy

Oh, certainly.

BTW, Ralphie? Snicker is a better word.

The other one doesn't read well.

356 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:00:09am

re: #355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, certainly.

BTW, Ralphie? Snicker is a better word.

The other one doesn't read well.

Niggardly PC nonsense. I will not throw out perfectly good words because they "look like" another word.

357 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:00:13am

re: #353 Cannadian Club Akbar

Wow. At least we had a real conservative post here today.
///morning honcos

Good morning from someone who 'thinks' he's conservative.
:)

358 Varek Raith  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:00:38am

re: #357 NJDhockeyfan

Good morning from someone who 'thinks' he's conservative.
:)

Lefty plant!

359 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:00:53am

re: #354 Liberal Classic

Looks like I went to ed too early.

They have pills for that now.

360 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:01:25am

re: #356 Cato the Elder

In other contexts, I've seen those words deleted.

361 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:03:03am

Sen. Mike Bennett Caught Looking at Porn on Senate Floor

No one will argue that sitting on the Senate floor during session can get a little boring, but looking at porn is probably not the best way to pass the time.

On Thursday morning, Sunshine State News captured exclusive video of Sen. Mike Bennett, R-Bradenton, looking at pornographic material on his state-issued computer on the Senate floor.

Ironically, as Bennett is viewing the material, you can hear a Senator Dan Gelber's voice in the background debating a controversial abortion bill.

"I'm against this bill," said Gelber, "because it disrespects too many women in the state of Florida."

Bennett defended his actions, telling Sunshine State News it was an email sent to him by a woman "who happens to be a former court administrator."

"I was just sitting there, bored as they were debating the abortion bill," Bennett said.

"I opened it up and said holy [expletive]! What's on my screen? and clicked away from it right away."

Sunshine State News could not verify how long the image of four bikini-clad women with their tops exposed was open before our cameras started rolling on it, but it was up for at least three seconds before it disappeared from the screen.

362 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:03:28am

re: #359 NJDhockeyfan

D'oh. Need more coffee.

363 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:03:45am

By the way - and Charles may or may not be able (or wish) to confirm this - I'm pretty sure the author of #321 is "Bob in Breckinridge". It's exactly his style of writing.

Personally, I hope Charles leaves this one up so everyone can see exactly what kind of class act the Borgmocrazy is.

364 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:05:02am

re: #363 Cato the Elder

By the way - and Charles may or may not be able (or wish) to confirm this - I'm pretty sure the author of #321 is "Bob in Breckinridge". It's exactly his style of writing.

Personally, I hope Charles leaves this one up so everyone can see exactly what kind of class act the Borgmocrazy is.

He should make it the next thread and highlight the post.

365 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:05:32am

re: #361 NJDhockeyfan

That guys district is were I grew up.

366 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:07:58am

re: #365 Cannadian Club Akbar

That guys district is werewhere I grew up.

pimf. On my first cup.

367 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:08:20am

re: #363 Cato the Elder

re: #364 NJDhockeyfan

Speaking of "pointing and laughing".

368 sandbox  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:09:38am

re: #350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm glad the FBI and NYPD IDd him so fast. I'm reading there are other accomplices.

369 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:10:03am

re: #367 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

re: #364 NJDhockeyfan

Speaking of "pointing and laughing".

Shh. He's still here. He might overwhelm us with his conservatism.
//

370 Sigma_x  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:10:14am

re: #321 John_in_AZ

Wow.

371 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:11:42am

re: #129 Tigger2005

Why do you call the Iraq war a giant blunder?

1. A dangerous, unstable dictator has been removed from the world.
2. This dangerous, unstable dictator was in violation of numerous U.N. resolutions. Continuing to let him get away with his crap was making the U.N. an even bigger laughingstock than it already was (and is).
3. The people of Iraq are no longer being tortured, terrorized, slaughtered, and shoveled into mass graves by this dangerous, unstable dictator and his insane sons.
4. Iraq is now a democracy, and an important counterbalance to Iranian dreams of hegemony in the Middle East.
5. We killed a whole lotta Al-Q terrorists in Iraq.

I'm sorry, I just don't see where all of this is a "giant blunder." If you can explain to me how things would be better if we'd just let Saddam be, I'd like to hear it.

4000+ American servicemen and women would still be alive, as would untold thousands of innocent Iraqis.

Granted, Saddam was an evil motherfucker. But the last time I checked, that wasn't the test for us deciding to spill American blood and fortune. Else we'd be in a lot of other countries, too.

372 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:15:27am

re: #369 Cannadian Club Akbar

Shh. He's still here. He might overwhelm us with his conservatism.
//

Yes, he's such a great conservative. I can hardly tell the difference between his post and the writings of Ronald Reagan!
///

373 Taqyia2Me  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:16:07am

Cato the Elder-
Continued best wishes, thoughts and prayers go out to you as you quit smoking.
The big day for my journey down that road is Saturday.
T2M

374 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:16:43am

re: #371 garhighway

4000+ American servicemen and women would still be alive, as would untold thousands of innocent Iraqis.

Granted, Saddam was an evil motherfucker. But the last time I checked, that wasn't the test for us deciding to spill American blood and fortune. Else we'd be in a lot of other countries, too.

You don't want to start this argument. You will get buried here at LGF. Many have tried...and failed.

375 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:17:18am

GONZO!!

376 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:18:05am

re: #373 Taqyia2Me

Cato the Elder-
Continued best wishes, thoughts and prayers go out to you as you quit smoking.
The big day for my journey down that road is Saturday.
T2M

Good luck! I've been smoke free since April 1st. Did it cold turkey. Been chewing a lot of gum lately.

377 right_wing2  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:20:02am

Let's hope the jackass who was behind the attempted NY bombing can be... encouraged... to reveal other terror plots and the nutcases behind them.

378 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:20:16am

re: #369 Cannadian Club Akbar

Shh. He's still here. He might overwhelm us with his conservatism.
//

Why, so he is. Hi, John!

379 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:23:08am

Kind of odd when I click on "new comments" and have to scroll up. :P

380 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:24:00am

re: #378 Cato the Elder

Why, so he is. Hi, John!

I wish we had a place to view flounces. Ya know, for members only who miss teh flounce because of work or sleep and so on.

381 Sigma_x  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:26:26am

re: #377 right_wing2

Let's hope the jackass who was behind the attempted NY bombing can be... encouraged... to reveal other terror plots and the nutcases behind them.

Wow, how... subtle... of you.

382 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:27:06am

Whiskey!
Tango!
Foxtrot!


U.S. Says It Has 5,113 Nuclear Warheads

The United States has 5,113 nuclear warheads in its stockpile and "several thousand" more retired warheads awaiting the junkpile, the Pentagon said Monday in an unprecedented accounting of a secretive arsenal born in the Cold War and now shrinking rapidly.

The Obama administration disclosed the size of its atomic stockpile going back to 1962 as part of a campaign to get other nuclear nations to be more forthcoming, and to improve its bargaining position against the prospect of a nuclear Iran.

"We think it is in our national security interest to be as transparent as we can be about the nuclear program of the United States," Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton told reporters at the United Nations, where she addressed a conference on containing the spread of atomic weapons.

The U.S. has previously regarded such details as top secret.

Have they lost their fucking minds?

383 iossarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:27:14am

re: #377 right_wing2

Let's hope the jackass who was behind the attempted NY bombing can be... encouraged... to reveal other terror plots and the nutcases behind them.

Are you suggesting the use of torture? Or some other means of encouragement?

384 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:27:42am

re: #371 garhighway

4000+ American servicemen and women would still be alive, as would untold thousands of innocent Iraqis.

Granted, Saddam was an evil motherfucker. But the last time I checked, that wasn't the test for us deciding to spill American blood and fortune. Else we'd be in a lot of other countries, too.

I said at the end of Gulf War I, and I still believe today, that our biggest mistake collectively, as a nation fighting a just war (or at least one that was plainly in the interests of Empire), was not taking out Saddam in 1991, when we had the means, the opportunity, the motive, and a clear shot. Instead, Bush I caved to wusses in the administration, the U-fucking-N, and his own pusillanimous instincts. Instead of going to Berlin to finish the job, to make an analogy, we stopped at the French border and told the Germans to rise up and overthrow the dictator. We told the Kurds in the north and the Marsh Arabs in the south that we'd have their back, and left them to die by the thousands.

There is a sense in which one can see Gulf War II as a belated balancing of the books.

People say "b-b-b-but the UN would have disapproved, and we would have lost coalition support", and I say, big fucking deal. It's easier to ask forgiveness than to beg for permission.

385 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:29:31am

re: #381 Sigma_x

Wow, how... subtle... of you.

You have a problem with subtlety? Or you have a problem with strong encouragement being applied in such a case?

386 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:29:40am

re: #384 Cato the Elder

I said at the end of Gulf War I, and I still believe today, that our biggest mistake collectively, as a nation fighting a just war (or at least one that was plainly in the interests of Empire), was not taking out Saddam in 1991, when we had the means, the opportunity, the motive, and a clear shot. Instead, Bush I caved to wusses in the administration, the U-fucking-N, and his own pusillanimous instincts. Instead of going to Berlin to finish the job, to make an analogy, we stopped at the French border and told the Germans to rise up and overthrow the dictator. We told the Kurds in the north and the Marsh Arabs in the south that we'd have their back, and left them to die by the thousands.

There is a sense in which one can see Gulf War II as a belated balancing of the books.

People say "b-b-b-but the UN would have disapproved, and we would have lost coalition support", and I say, big fucking deal. It's easier to ask forgiveness than to beg for permission.

Bingo.

387 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:30:01am

re: #383 iossarian

Of course not. Offer him the "gasp!" comfy chair.

388 Randall Gross  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:30:05am

Good morning all

Well this lends a bit more credence to the claim made by TTP, or the Pakistan Taliban. Kudos to our authorities for being able to get this guy so fast, and maybe it's time to step up drone strikes to an even higher level?

389 right_wing2  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:31:27am

re: #383 iossarian

Oh, don't lay a finger on him. Just scare the fertilizer out of his loony ass. Good cop-crazy cop.

390 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:31:40am

re: #382 NJDhockeyfan

Whiskey!
Tango!
Foxtrot!

U.S. Says It Has 5,113 Nuclear Warheads

Have they lost their fucking minds?

I think Ronald Reagan would approve. Nuke disarmament was his final dream as president.

Or will you now maintain he already had Alzheimer's at that point?

391 Sigma_x  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:32:00am

re: #385 Cato the Elder

You have a problem with subtlety? Or you have a problem with strong encouragement being applied in such a case?

The latter. I'm a big fan of subtlety.

392 iossarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:32:54am

re: #387 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Of course not. Offer him the "gasp!" comfy chair.

Hey - I just wanted to check. Funny how people get embarrassed about the "T word".

Bring on the Stasi, that's what I say.

/

393 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:33:38am

re: #390 Cato the Elder

I think Ronald Reagan would approve. Nuke disarmament was his final dream as president.

Or will you now maintain he already had Alzheimer's at that point?

Ronald Reagan never disclosed the number of nukes in our arsenal. No president has. That is top secret information for a reason.

394 jvic  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:34:10am

I'm glad they caught him (he's presumed innocent until etc) and hope they trace it back to the people who gave the orders.

NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg on the Pakistan Taliban claim of responsibility:

New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and city police chief Raymond Kelly have also dismissed the claim the bomb was planted by a foreign terrorist group.

"There is no evidence that this is tied in with Al-Qaeda or any other big terrorist organization," Bloomberg told reporters at a press conference held in Times Square.

Bloomberg to Katie Couric:

KATIE COURIC: Law enforcement officials don't know who left the Nissan Pathfinder behind, but, at this point, the mayor believes the suspect acted alone.

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG: If I had to guess -- 25 cents -- this would be exactly that, somebody-

COURIC TO BLOOMBERG: A home-grown?

BLOOMBERG: Home-grown, maybe a mentally deranged person or somebody with a political agenda that doesn't like the health care bill or something. It could be anything.

Bloomberg is a self-made billionaire in the financial services industry. If this is how the people at the top of our society think (in post-9/11 NYC), heaven help us.

Fortunately, the police seem more competent than politicians. Unfortunately, we rely on politicians to keep the police within constitutional bounds.
*** *** *** *** *** *** ***

re: #382 NJDhockeyfan

Whiskey!
Tango!
Foxtrot!

U.S. Says It Has 5,113 Nuclear Warheads

Have they lost their fucking minds?

They live in a bubble.

395 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:34:23am

re: #393 NJDhockeyfan

Well, now that I know? For no apparent reason? I thought there'd be more.

396 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:34:54am

Just had an oil rig expert on my radio. He said they tried in 1979 what they are trying now, with a cap in regards to the well. Didn't work all that great. In 150 feet of water. Bay of Campichi.(sp?)

397 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:36:44am

re: #396 Cannadian Club Akbar

Just had an oil rig expert on my radio. He said they tried in 1979 what they are trying now, with a cap in regards to the well. Didn't work all that great. In 150 feet of water. Bay of Campichi.(sp?)

Yikes! This could be a very bad summer in the Gulf. Wait till the hurricanes arrive.

398 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:36:46am

re: #394 jvic

I am sure Bloomberg, CNN, LSDNBC and all the others were hoping it was a TPer.

399 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:37:37am

re: #397 NJDhockeyfan

Yikes! This could be a very bad summer in the Gulf. Wait till the hurricanes arrive.

It's gonna run right up the east coast.

400 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:38:44am

re: #398 Cannadian Club Akbar

I am sure Bloomberg, CNN, LSDNBC and all the others were hoping it was a TPer.

I have to admit that when I heard gunpowder and propane tanks, I thought redneck.

401 vinnievin  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:39:23am

re: #382 NJDhockeyfan

Whiskey!
Tango!
Foxtrot!

U.S. Says It Has 5,113 Nuclear Warheads

Have they lost their fucking minds?

In a single syllable .. yes.

402 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:39:34am

Ad on my local Craid's List:

40 HR HAZWOPER CERT A MUST. PLEASE SPECIFY IN YOUR RESPONSE THAT YOU HAVE IT.


Looking for Laborers for General Cleanup for Gulf Coast Oil Spill. Will be working 7-12's for about 3 months. Shelter / Food and Laundry service provided. Must have valid DL and vechicle. Send contact information via e-mail (including additional trade skills).


* MUST HAVE 40 HR HAZWOPER CERT. TO BE CONSIDER FOR JOB.

403 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:40:17am

re: #400 Liberal Classic

I have to admit that when I heard gunpowder and propane tanks, I thought redneck.

The press was falling all over themselves to tell everyone the suspect was white yesterday. All of a sudden his race isn't an issue any more.

404 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:40:18am

re: #386 Cannadian Club Akbar

Bingo.

Bear in mind (there's no way you could know this) but I was initially against Desert Storm. I thought and still think it was largely our cock-up (remember April Glaspie?) and that there was reason for Saddam to be pissed at Kuwait (remember lateral drilling?). But once we were committed I became a jusqu'au-boutiste and thought it was a crime of historic proportions not to finish the job.

All the shit about how evil Saddam was was already known to us at that point. Thing is, G.H.W. Bush and Donald Rumsfeld had also been teabagging the man for decades, along with everyone else in official Washington.

The blood of those who died when we encouraged them to "rise up" and then left them dangling in the wind is still on those men's hands.

405 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:40:22am

re: #400 Liberal Classic

I have to admit that when I heard gunpowder and propane tanks, I thought redneck.

Me as well.

406 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:40:49am

re: #384 Cato the Elder

I said at the end of Gulf War I, and I still believe today, that our biggest mistake collectively, as a nation fighting a just war (or at least one that was plainly in the interests of Empire), was not taking out Saddam in 1991, when we had the means, the opportunity, the motive, and a clear shot. Instead, Bush I caved to wusses in the administration, the U-fucking-N, and his own pusillanimous instincts. Instead of going to Berlin to finish the job, to make an analogy, we stopped at the French border and told the Germans to rise up and overthrow the dictator. We told the Kurds in the north and the Marsh Arabs in the south that we'd have their back, and left them to die by the thousands.

There is a sense in which one can see Gulf War II as a belated balancing of the books.

People say "b-b-b-but the UN would have disapproved, and we would have lost coalition support", and I say, big fucking deal. It's easier to ask forgiveness than to beg for permission.

I agree that we bungled the end of GWI.

I do not agree that it follows that from that mistake we needed to make another one.

407 iossarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:41:05am

re: #389 right_wing2

Oh, don't lay a finger on him. Just scare the fertilizer out of his loony ass. Good cop-crazy cop.

Hmm. Does that really work? I've always assumed that the whole good cop/bad cop thing involves actual physical harm (outside the Hollywood studios, that is).

An ex-policeman of my acquaintance suggested as much when he told me: "Of course, in the old days we'd have taken him behind the station and given him a good kicking."

408 vinnievin  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:41:28am

re: #384 Cato the Elder

Well said. If only we had the luxury to go back and change the past, but we don't. Lord knows I would pull that lever once or twice if given the chance. Have to deal with the now.

409 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:41:41am

re: #404 Cato the Elder

The blood of those who died when we encouraged them to "rise up" and then left them dangling in the wind is still on those men's hands.

Agree times ten.

410 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:41:52am

re: #393 NJDhockeyfan

Ronald Reagan never disclosed the number of nukes in our arsenal. No president has. That is top secret information for a reason.

Why, exactly? Does knowing the number somehow diminish the Armageddon we could unleash with them?

411 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:43:29am

re: #404 Cato the Elder

I learned not to long ago about the lateral drilling.

412 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:43:45am

The Times Square bomber may have a Facebook page.

413 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:44:28am

re: #406 garhighway

I agree that we bungled the end of GWI.

I do not agree that it follows that from that mistake we needed to make another one.

I'm not at all sure we did.

414 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:47:04am

re: #412 NJDhockeyfan

The Times Square bomber may have a Facebook page.

Hmm. 115 friends, all but one or two with Muslim names.

You can bet every single one of them is getting a knock on the door sometime today.

415 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:47:29am

Work. Bye!

416 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:49:39am

Cellphone led FBI to Times Square car bomb suspect arrest

The number from a disposable cellphone led FBI agents to the suspect arrested Monday night for allegedly driving a car bomb into Times Square on Saturday evening, according to a senior official.

“They were able to basically get one phone number and by running it through a number of databases, figure out who they thought the guy was,” the official said.

A huge law-enforcement force tracked the suspect through the afternoon and evening. He was arrested at 11:30 p.m. at John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City.

The vehicle identification number had been removed from the bomb-laden 1993 Nissan Pathfinder left in Times Square. But investigators were able to lift it from a second location on the vehicle, and used that to track down a Connecticut man who said he had sold the Pathfinder for cash about three weeks ago.

The man had offered the vehicle on Craigslist, and FBI agents were able to recover the number from a disposable cellphone that had been used by the buyer.

The suspect didn't still have the phone. But using a lot of technology and access to database, agents located the suspect.

417 Ericus58  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:52:31am

Great.....
Here I am, reading the overnight posts and giving counter updings for a Frakkin' Sleeper....

Geesshhh... now I have to go back and remove them. Me thinking I'm just being a counter to what I percieved as an un-fair downding fest to some...

What a way to start a day...

418 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:52:59am

Uh, don't run on the baseball feild in Philly. [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

419 Randall Gross  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:53:42am

I see I missed an attack of the evil dead.... it's like someone came in overnight and spent hours trying to create a graffiti masterpiece to deface the place, and then Zap! it's gone ...............humorous.

420 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:54:13am

re: #418 Cannadian Club Akbar

Field= pimf. Need to make stronger coffee.

421 jvic  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:54:17am

re: #413 Cato the Elder

re: #406 garhighway

I agree that we bungled the end of GWI.

I do not agree that it follows that from that mistake we needed to make another one.

I'm not at all sure we did.

I'm not sure one way or the other, but I am pretty sure we didn't think things through. (Self-financing war. Greeted as liberators. Mission Accomplished.)

422 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:54:30am

FNC says 3 more people besides the suspected bomber were removed from the same flight he was on. Curioser and curioser.

423 Randall Gross  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:55:05am

re: #418 Cannadian Club Akbar

Uh, don't run on the baseball feild in Philly. [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The cops know what Phillies fans are like... isn't that where they used to throw D cell batteries at Daryl in the outfield?

424 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:56:33am

re: #423 Thanos

The cops know what Phillies fans are like... isn't that where they used to throw D cell batteries at Daryl in the outfield?

I'm sure they did. San Fran Giants fans used to throw them at the Dodgers.

425 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:57:00am

re: #423 Thanos
Philly fans booed Santa Claus for cryin' out loud. They aren't the most forgiving bunch.

426 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:58:03am

re: #425 pingjockey

Philly fans booed Santa Claus for cryin' out loud. They aren't the most forgiving bunch.

They also threw hardened snowballs at Dallas Cowboy coaches.

427 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:58:44am

IIRC, Old Veterans Stadium had a jail and a magistrate on hand for fans who'd got out of control.

428 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:59:28am

re: #426 Cannadian Club Akbar
Ice balls. They did the same thing to the Chargers.

429 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 4, 2010 5:59:52am

re: #417 Ericus58

Great...
Here I am, reading the overnight posts and giving counter updings for a Frakkin' Sleeper...

Geesshhh... now I have to go back and remove them. Me thinking I'm just being a counter to what I percieved as an un-fair downding fest to some...

What a way to start a day...

Who?

430 right_wing2  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:00:03am

re: #423 Thanos

Real classy (throwing batteries)

431 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:00:10am

re: #427 pingjockey

IIRC, Old Veterans Stadium had a jail and a magistrate on hand for fans who'd got out of control.

Yes. And at the final game the fans were walking out with toilet seats around their necks. Ugh.

432 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:01:29am

re: #431 Cannadian Club Akbar
A regular seat, sure. But a toilet seat?

433 Jadespring  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:04:10am

Morning Lizards

434 Ericus58  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:05:27am

re: #429 reine.de.tout

Who?

It was a new registered poster that had previously been here. All the posts have been deleted now. I'm not sure what the policy is concerning mentioning the name of a poster whose been banned.

He went off the rials in post 321 I think.... when I got to it beore deletion I just went "What the.....?!?!" and knew I had been hoodwinked.

I'm feeling lost..... hold me. ;)

435 Randall Gross  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:05:41am

re: #432 pingjockey

A regular seat, sure. But a toilet seat?

Maybe that's where they remember spending most of their time at the games they went to?

436 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:06:51am

The guy goes through all of the trouble to become a naturalized citizen and then tries to blow up Times Square. Doesn't the citizenship process take over 3 years?

437 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:07:36am

re: #434 Ericus58
Well that sucks.

438 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:08:15am

Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. I'm glad to see that the NYPD and FBI have come through with an arrest in the Times Square case. Faisal Shahzad, a naturalized American from Pakistan was picked up from a flight heading to Dubai. In fact, the plane was set to depart but called back to the gate to take him into custody. Everyone on board and all baggage were rescreened as he was taken in.

The authorities caught a break with the disposable cellphone used, and were able to link back to Shahzad, who will appear in federal court today to face charges that will be announced at that time.

439 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:09:02am

re: #438 lawhawk
Mornin'.

440 Jadespring  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:10:23am

I have a question. When someone is killed in Iraq or Afghanistan does it commonly get talked about on regular newscasts down there? I just watched a report about the latest Canadian soldier who was killed and was wondering if it happens because I haven't seen it myself at least not on national type newscasts that I do occasionally watch. Does it happen at a more local level?

441 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:12:14am

re: #440 Jadespring
I'd say on a more local level. The big broadcasters will go off when there's an attack like the one on the CIA compound.

442 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:12:32am

re: #440 Jadespring

I don't watch TV news, but local soldiers do get mentioned on the radio here.

443 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:16:28am

re: #441 pingjockey

I'd say on a more local level. The big broadcasters will go off when there's an attack like the one on the CIA compound.

Actually, the McLaughlin Report has a weekly listing - in silence, with pictures - of any military personnel confirmed killed since the previous listing. Maybe more often, it's been a while since I've seen it.

444 MandyManners  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:16:38am

Gotta' turn it up louder, so my DJ told me.

Youtube Video
445 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:16:54am

re: #49 NJDhockeyfan

Richard Reid, the underwear bomber, and this guy all have gotten their bombs right where they wanted them to be. All failed igniting the explosives. I wouldn't call that failing miserably.

Well, no, if they got the bombs right, then it would have been a success. Failure to ignite the bombs is a miserable failure when your task is to blow stuff up. Reid, the second London attacks, the Scotland attacks, the London disco attacks, this all point to an army of incompetents.

A blind squirrel gets a nut. But come on. If the threat was as real as we are being told, and there are so many of these guys, why don't the major American cities look like something out of Mad Max?

446 _RememberTonyC  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:17:31am

Another troublemaker from Pakistan ...

Riddle me this ...

Why can't we "profile" some citizens of certain countries?

447 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:17:45am

re: #443 Cato the Elder
Well, that's something anyway. I watch that show occasionally.

448 vinnievin  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:18:16am

re: #443 Cato the Elder

Actually, the McLaughlin Report has a weekly listing - in silence, with pictures - of any military personnel confirmed killed since the previous listing. Maybe more often, it's been a while since I've seen it.

Yeah, the body count ticker used to be a regular feature on network news ... hmm, when did it go away?

449 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:19:03am

re: #446 _RememberTonyC
This guy was a citizen!

450 _RememberTonyC  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:20:25am

re: #449 pingjockey

This guy was a citizen!

and ...

where is his country of birth?

451 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:20:53am

re: #450 _RememberTonyC
There is that....

452 Jadespring  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:21:34am

re: #448 vinnievin

Yeah, the body count ticker used to be a regular feature on network news ... hmm, when did it go away?

An actual ticker? That sounds kinda morbid.

453 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:21:43am

re: #450 _RememberTonyC

and ...

where is his country of birth?

And how much time has he spent there recently?

454 MandyManners  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:22:34am

Just a middle-aged white guy, eh?

Youtube Video
455 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:22:43am

re: #453 Cannadian Club Akbar
News said he was over there for five months just recently. Wonder where he was?///

456 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:23:43am

re: #453 Cannadian Club Akbar

Shahzad been in Pakistan for several months in 2009, returning in February 2010, the official said.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

457 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:24:32am

re: #455 pingjockey

News said he was over there for five months just recently. Wonder where he was?///

A cricket match went into OT or extra innings or whatever.
/

458 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:24:41am

re: #429 reine.de.tout

Who?

John in Arizona. I don't know the dude, but if he was half the ass he appears to have been, then good riddance.

And to the rest of you - good morning! Huzzah for excellent law enforcement work-

459 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:25:07am

re: #452 Jadespring

An actual ticker? That sounds kinda morbid.

That's because it IS morbid;)

460 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:25:14am

re: #457 Cannadian Club Akbar
Ah yes.

461 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:25:46am

re: #445 PAUL_MACDONALD

Because even cities in places like Pakistan aren't out of some dystopian future of bombed out buildings.

The number of terrorists who are prone to carrying out these kinds of attacks isn't large, but they are dedicated. There's a much larger feeder population that generally condones such behavior (and isn't likely to turn them in), but getting the means to carry out mass casualty attacks isn't as easy as it is portrayed in the movies.

The risk of a terrorist attack in the US is low (compared to say getting killed while driving or from lightning), but the potential casualties from such attacks is quite high. It's the mass casualty nature of the terrorist tactics that is worrisome - and having been in NYC on 9/11, knew people who were in the WTC during the 1993 attacks, and who regularly uses mass transit and the tunnels and bridges targeted by multiple terror plots, those threats and plots are quite real - and troublesome.

The terrorists had it in for the WTC - and weren't going to stop until they took it down. They might harbor the same sentiments for the bridges and tunnels and other landmarks.

So, even if it turns out that this was a lone-wolf jihadi, he's still focusing on landmarks like all the rest of those plots that are tied to major terror groups.

Also, you're ascribing failure to the terrorists because they didn't carry out their mass casualty plans. They failed because they're attempting ever larger and more audacious bombing threats - not merely content with a standard bomb, they're looking at FAE/thermobaric weapons that are larger and more deadly - but are also far more complex to detonate properly to achieve their deadly aims.

I suspect that had the placement of the explosives and gas canisters been slightly different, the outcome would not have been what it was (a fizzle).

462 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:28:08am

re: #461 lawhawk
Thank God this fools bomb instructor didn't get the points across.

463 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:29:11am

re: #412 NJDhockeyfan

The Times Square bomber may have a Facebook page.

if that's him, then lolz about the Farmville...

464 _RememberTonyC  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:29:15am

re: #462 pingjockey

Thank God this fools bomb instructor didn't get the points across.

yes .... there is that

465 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:30:44am

News is showing LE searching the bombers house. I hope they find a shitload of stuff that leads to other sleepers, if there are any in his group. If there are other sleepers with US citizen ship, it may have been compartmentalized to mitigate busting up cells.

466 _RememberTonyC  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:31:25am

later Lizards

467 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:32:52am

re: #465 pingjockey

I know he had a throw away cell phone. Can they trace the numbers called with one of those? My thought is yes, but there are people here that are much smarter then me.

468 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:32:58am

re: #464 _RememberTonyC
I remember talking to a US navy intel guy. I was going to this school, and he was saying how it's much easier to teach western kids technical stuff than kids from Russia or other places. Our kids are exposed daily to high tech, those kids not so much.

469 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:33:51am

re: #467 Cannadian Club Akbar
I have no idea. News said they tracked him down through emails sent to the lady he bought the suv from.

470 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:34:42am

Oh crap. News said this nut worked for an anti-identy theft outfit. How much info has this nut sent to his handlers?

471 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:36:07am

re: #469 pingjockey

LH answered in his #438.

472 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:36:09am

A long read in small print, but some of you may be interested: Jindal's press release on State plans as re: the oil spill.

473 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:37:32am

re: #471 Cannadian Club Akbar
We both learned something. Good, think I'll skip work! /

474 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:37:34am

I guess he's one of those angry Pakistani Quakers.

475 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:37:57am

re: #17 Cato the Elder

You don't need any of that to produce such an inept bomb.

The good news behind all of this is that these guys can't get their hands on the real deal and probably still couldn't get it to work if they did.

Firecrackers? Non-explosive fertilizer? Leaving your hazard lights flashing when you park the car?

It's called scraping the bottom of the barrel.

They already scraped up most of the best bits from the barrel bottom. Anybody remember Dhiren Barot?

476 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:38:41am

re: #440 Jadespring

Yeah, we hear about it in the paper or local news broadcast.

477 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:41:24am

re: #475 Alouette
I honestly didn;t remember that fool. Thank God for small favors C4 isn't readily available like in the movies.

478 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:43:53am

Annoying commercial at the beginning, but dude tazered at Phillies game. Faceplant. Heh.
[Link: www.nbcphiladelphia.com...]

479 really grumpy big dog johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:44:24am

To those congratulating Homeland for their good work in catching the bomber in just 48 hours:

Would you be congratulating them if the bomb had gone off, killing and maiming dozens of people? The object is to prevent terrorism, not catch terrorists after the fact. That's just routine cop work.

480 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:45:22am

re: #479 really grumpy big dog johnson

The world is not an orderly place.

481 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:45:58am

re: #478 Cannadian Club Akbar
I can't remember who the linebacker was, this was years ago. Some fool ran on the field, grabbed the football and the linebacker just clotheslined the jackass. Like to took his head off. Your ticket to the game does not entitle you to run on the field of play.

482 Achilles Tang  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:46:46am

I think we will be needing more regular, and non politically correct, threads discussing the ROP in the future.

483 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:47:15am

re: #479 really grumpy big dog johnson
Yes. The only way to stop such an attempt is to stop each and every vehicle going into NYC. How do you propose to do that?

484 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:47:43am

re: #479 really grumpy big dog johnson

The persons to be congratulated are the street vendor who saw the suspicious vehicle; the cop who then acted swiftly to begin evacuating the area and alerted the FDNY and other NYPD in the area to cordon off the area; and then the bomb squad for disabling and safely disassembling the device.

As to the cameras in the area - they're useful to help with the law enforcement task of figuring out who did it *after the fact*.

485 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:48:12am

re: #475 Alouette

They already scraped up most of the best bits from the barrel bottom. Anybody remember Dhiren Barot?

i love Cracked.

486 vinnievin  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:48:29am

re: #467 Cannadian Club Akbar

I know he had a throw away cell phone. Can they trace the numbers called with one of those? My thought is yes, but there are people here that are much smarter then me.

I have a disposable cell phone (I spend so much time in Africa that it doesn't make sense to sign a contract). You could pull up every call I have made or received, text messages, missed calls, everything. Surely the service provider has a log of it all on some server.

487 laZardo  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:48:50am

And now, conspiratorial house music.

Youtube Video
488 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:48:54am

re: #484 lawhawk
IIRC, doesn't London have over 10k cameras covering the greater metro area?

489 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:49:12am

re: #481 pingjockey

Not a video but...

Youtube Video
490 laZardo  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:50:44am

re: #475 Alouette

They already scraped up most of the best bits from the barrel bottom. Anybody remember Dhiren Barot?

I didn't know we had a Thomas Jefferson Cultural Center. o_O

491 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:50:51am

re: #489 Cannadian Club Akbar
That wasn't it. But still a good reminder to stay off the field. I think it was a colts linebacker from back in the late 70s or early 80s.

492 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:51:22am

re: #488 pingjockey

Yes, they have something like that. NYC is currently implementing a similar camera system for lower Manhattan, and got $24 million to do a similar system in Midtown, but there are questions over the necessity and cost - it might be cheaper to have a nonnetworked system that law enforcement can access if a terror attack occurs and satisfies civil liberties concerns for the omnipresent eyes in the skies.

493 Renaissance_Man  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:52:10am

re: #490 laZardo

I didn't know we had a Thomas Jefferson Cultural Center. o_O

Texas BoE handled the schools in your area too, huh?

494 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:53:23am

re: #492 lawhawk
Thanks. I would think if you're out in public, like Times Square, your right to privacy is not what it is if you are in your house. Then again, I'm not an atty, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night!

495 Jadespring  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:53:53am

re: #479 really grumpy big dog johnson

To those congratulating Homeland for their good work in catching the bomber in just 48 hours:

Would you be congratulating them if the bomb had gone off, killing and maiming dozens of people? The object is to prevent terrorism, not catch terrorists after the fact. That's just routine cop work.

And Homeland does the prevention part as well. We just don't tend to hear much about what is prevented unless there's a reason for it to be released to the public.

And yeah unfortunately not every single incident is going to get caught onto before hand. Nature of the beast.

So yeah here's my blanket congratulations to all the security work that goes on that prevents incidents that we never hear about as well as congratulations for the quick catch on this one.

496 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:54:34am

re: #494 pingjockey

Thanks. I would think if you're out in public, like Times Square, your right to privacy is not what it is if you are in your house. Then again, I'm not an atty, nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn last night!

IIRC, your right to privacy, in terms of what can be seen, ends with your failure to close your windows. In other words, if it can be seen without assistance (naked eye) from the sidewalk, it is public.

Seriously.

497 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:55:14am

re: #496 EmmmieG

IIRC, your right to privacy, in terms of what can be seen, ends with your failure to close your windows. In other words, if it can be seen without assistance (naked eye) from the sidewalk, it is public.

Seriously.

PIMF...curtains.

498 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:55:42am

re: #496 EmmmieG
Sounds reasonable.

499 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:55:43am

NYC SUV bomb construction patterned after AQ manual

...The operational tactics studied by U.S. DHS officials of al Qaeda’s tactics, specifically those written by now-jailed Islamic terrorist Dhiren BAROT (depicted in image at left), served as the basis for this study. Officials found that BAROT spent a great deal of time in New York City in 2000 and 2001, engaging in surveillance of target selection. As a result, BAROT compiled a 39-page “instruction manual” that outlined the selection of targets, how to create bombs using propane tanks and fuel containers, and the use of SUVs and vans. BAROT also gave instructions on when to use such bombs to cause the maximum number of casualties.

His manual and other documents were wisely published on the Internet following the 2001 attacks, and are considered to have been the blueprints for the failed London car bombings in 2007.

500 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:57:12am

re: #461 lawhawk

Because even cities in places like Pakistan aren't out of some dystopian future of bombed out buildings.

Places like Chechnya and Somalia are, though.

The number of terrorists who are prone to carrying out these kinds of attacks isn't large, but they are dedicated. There's a much larger feeder population that generally condones such behavior (and isn't likely to turn them in), but getting the means to carry out mass casualty attacks isn't as easy as it is portrayed in the movies.

Yes, and the smart ones have been effectively weeded out by the very nature of Jihadi culture. How many more do you think can fly a jetliner these days? They had to trim down the initial plan from 20 to 4. In all of Jihididom, they could only find a handful of men with the intelligence to fly an airplane. Not an ex-Pakistani jet pilot, a recruit from the Saudi Air force but some disillusioned men with university degrees.

The first WTC bomber was dumb enough to ask for his deposit back.

The risk of a terrorist attack in the US is low (compared to say getting killed while driving or from lightning), but the potential casualties from such attacks is quite high. It's the mass casualty nature of the terrorist tactics that is worrisome - and having been in NYC on 9/11, knew people who were in the WTC during the 1993 attacks, and who regularly uses mass transit and the tunnels and bridges targeted by multiple terror plots, those threats and plots are quite real - and troublesome.

See, I was on this boat for a number of years. Then it became clear that not only was the threat of mass casualties from a terrorist attack rather overrated, but I had more to worry about from a mentally ill person getting a gun and going postal.

The terrorists had it in for the WTC - and weren't going to stop until they took it down. They might harbor the same sentiments for the bridges and tunnels and other landmarks.

Oh, I'm sure they do. I'm also sure that if they had the ability, they would have been blowing stuff up to beat the band. They don't attack infrastructure in any event. They attack symbols.

So, even if it turns out that this was a lone-wolf jihadi, he's still focusing on landmarks like all the rest of those plots that are tied to major terror groups.

No such thing as a lone wolf Jihadi. No such thing as a lone wolf Neo Nazi, either.

Also, you're ascribing failure to the terrorists because they didn't carry out their mass casualty plans. They failed because they're attempting ever larger and more audacious bombing threats - not merely content with a standard bomb, they're looking at FAE/thermobaric weapons that are larger and more deadly - but are also far more complex to detonate properly to achieve their deadly aims.

That is flawed. They are planning smaller and less technical attacks. From the WTC and the Pentagon to a single car bomb? They went from flying planes, to backpack bombs, to giant car bombs with crappy trigger mechanisms.

I suspect that had the placement of the explosives and gas canisters been slightly different, the outcome would not have been what it was (a fizzle).

I suspect that this guy spent 5 months in Pakistan learning how to make bombs from "skilled" bomb makers and passed all the rigorous tests. Probably made a whole bunch of similar bombs. Still got it wrong.

It's ok to be wary, but these aren't a bunch of dedicated high tech supersoldiers. They are a bunch of dedicated religious whack-a-loons. The amount of damage they can do is overrated.

501 laZardo  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:57:32am

From the sidebar...

The 17 Most Unintentionally Hilarious Propaganda Posters.

502 steve_davis  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:59:32am

re: #25 PAUL_MACDONALD

Is it just me, or are these guys just getting worse at blowing stuff up?

They're getting worse. And part of the reason for that is because this administration, without having to have weekly press conferences about it, has been quite good at using predator drones and covert intelligence to take out Al Qaeda's bomb-makers. And frankly, if i were the spokesman for Pakistan's Taliban, I would definitely not have been claiming credit for a bomb that didn't work. That's just embarrassing for them.

503 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:59:39am

re: #500 PAUL_MACDONALD

...

It's ok to be wary, but these aren't a bunch of dedicated high tech supersoldiers. They are a bunch of dedicated religious whack-a-loons. The amount of damage they can do is overrated.

3000 people who died in 9-11-01 would disagree with you if they could speak.

504 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, May 4, 2010 6:59:52am

Good Morning Lizards!
It's voting day in Indiana.. I went to the polls but that damn socialist Obama has stationed black panthers there to keep us from voting.
/s
//Save us Beck!

505 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:00:57am

re: #503 NJDhockeyfan

3000 people who died in 9-11-01 would disagree with you if they could speak.

I think I addressed this in the same post you are quoting from. The competent ones are long dead.

506 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:01:49am

re: #500 PAUL_MACDONALD
They only have to be successful once. We have to be successful at stopping them 100% of the time. Some day, some where, they'll get it right and the amount of damage will not be overrated.

507 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:02:24am

re: #504 HoosierHoops
Did you buy some seeds?

508 eastsider  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:03:10am

Thank god for dumb terrorists and smart cops.

509 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:03:20am

re: #126 lostlakehiker

Don't forget that the ISI-cozy group Lashkar e Taibi was involved in the Mumbai attack and that one was all too competent. Once in a while, even enemies that make the WWII Italians look like professionals will score. Of course, with NYC being a concealed carry state where 3% of the population goes armed, they wouldn't have a chance doing anything of the sort in TSq.

/NYC isn't??

The Mumbai attacks were carried out by semi-retarded, drugged out youngsters, and the reason they succeeded beyond their wildest dreams of carnage was because of even greater incompetence by law enforcement. The Mumbai terrorists were like zombies being controlled and micro-managed by the handler in Pakistan--who is still at large.

510 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:03:39am

re: #505 PAUL_MACDONALD

I think I addressed this in the same post you are quoting from. The competent ones are long dead.

You are very naive if you think they can't be successful because the 'competent ones are long dead.'

511 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:04:14am

re: #508 eastsider

Thank god for dumb terrorists and smart cops.

And vigilant street vendors.

512 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:04:17am

re: #475 Alouette

They already scraped up most of the best bits from the barrel bottom. Anybody remember Dhiren Barot?

on a more theological note, i'd expect a much greater percentage of success if Allah was indeed blessing efforts to strike at Great Satan...at some point, it ought to occur to some of these blunderbusses that perhaps the war is not as holy as first believed...

513 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:05:01am

re: #178 sagehen

Throughout the 80's and early 90's, NYC used to have more than 2000 murders a year (with maybe 30% solve rate). Bratton (starting under Dinkens, continuing under Giuliani) started doing serious gun control in 91... the murder rate has gone down every year since. Nowadays it's around 500 a year, with a better than 70% solve rate.

And if anybody did try a mumbai... are you aware we've got more than 30,000 cops? That's an army. Plus a bunch of FBI, and there's more licensed weapons in civilian hands than you might think -- we're just fussy about making people pass a safety test and a marksmanship test before handing out the licenses. Hotel security, office building security, banks, couriers, bodyguards, etc.

We like it this way. We'd rather not have every random yahoo packing.

I don't know about NYC standards for success in criminal affairs, but by any standard that I can imagine, roughly 150 unsolved murders annually is an abysmal failure. I don't think the entire state of Colorado has that many in the history of the state.

Are you sure about the 70% figure? That means that 3 of 10 murderers are remaining on the street annually. I don't know how that could be considered successful in any community.

514 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:05:09am

re: #507 pingjockey

Did you buy some seeds?

Hear that? That's the sound of Gold!
So I went to the store and tried to pay in gold, The girl called security..
/

515 Renaissance_Man  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:05:25am

re: #506 pingjockey

They only have to be successful once. We have to be successful at stopping them 100% of the time. Some day, some where, they'll get it right and the amount of damage will not be overrated.

Ultimately, that depends on your definition of overrated.

It's a loaded and emotional issue, but I think it's worthwhile to note that the anguish and difficulties caused by terrorism on a global scale is far out of proportion to the number of deaths from it.

This may change if they get access to nuclear weapons.

516 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:05:38am

re: #511 Cannadian Club Akbar
FNC interviewed that vendor this morning. The vendor said it was a good thing him and his buddies didn't catch the fool!

517 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:05:39am

re: #500 PAUL_MACDONALD

Somalia and Chechnya were failed states even before the jihadis came to view them as safe havens. The jihadis flock to them because they are failed states, but they also go to Pakistan because of the border regions - and even with the Islamists having full support and have made multiple attempts to overthrow the government there, they've fallen short.

So, you now think that the threat is overrated? That's fine - but as someone who regularly utilizes the mass transit repeatedly targeted by terrorists - who works next to Ground Zero (itself targeted twice), takes the tunnels (targeted multiple times), etc. the threat is far more substantial than if you're from somewhere in suburban America. The odds of being a victim from a terror attack increase the more frequently you're using the very systems/institutions that have been repeatedly targeted.

We've also boosted our security and surveillance following 9/11 to make it more difficult for terrorists to hijack airlines (armored cockpits to thwart hijackings, etc).

The key is to remain vigilant and if you let down your guard, the terrorists can and will take advantage.

Actually - they went from hijacking planes with nothing more than boxcutters to making all kinds of bombs that evaded detection by airport screeners. So, now a hijacking is much more difficult to attempt because of the armored cockpits, but screeners still can't pick up the liquid explosives that hijackers now use in their recent attempts.

518 Ojoe  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:05:39am

Faisal Shahzad,

Who'd have guess a name like that.

/9

519 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:06:26am

re: #514 HoosierHoops
Mwahaha!

520 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:06:57am

You want to know how stupid and inefficient our government is? Here's an example. I'm trying to download a small document - a pdf that's probably 2-3 pages long. It's taking almost an hour for it to load. Probably because we use an old version of explorer and they won't upgrade it. It's their money their paying me to post on here while I wait for this stupid document to load.

521 laZardo  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:07:16am

Hell, I'm going to bed.

Nighty.

522 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:07:21am

re: #56 Nimed

This may sound hubristic to you, but I'm not very concerned with another terrorist strike, even a successful one. I'm much more worried about people going apeshit - again - with all the risks that entails: another gigantic blunder like the Iraq war, even more liberties curtailed, etc, etc.

I really wish the American people would get used to the idea that we are likely to suffer another successful terrorist attack. If we don't make a big deal out of it, we basically take away the only weapon they have.

I reject 100% of everything just typed there. I would turn it up to 11 eleventy if I could. But 100% is all I got this fine morning.

523 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:08:04am

re: #518 Ojoe

Faisal Shahzad,

Who'd have guess a name like that.

/9

An Icelander?

524 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:08:07am

re: #515 Renaissance_Man
Kill one, frighten 1000. Sun Tzu. I have no idea how many people are killed annually by terrorism. I do know the terrorists kill more of their fellow co-religionists than any western nation.

525 Jadespring  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:08:08am

re: #512 Aceofwhat?

on a more theological note, i'd expect a much greater percentage of success if Allah was indeed blessing efforts to strike at Great Satan...at some point, it ought to occur to some of these blunderbusses that perhaps the war is not as holy as first believed...

You would think but won't happen. These folks measure 'success' using different goal posts depending on the situation. What's 'successful' in their minds is very malleable.

526 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:08:12am

re: #513 really grumpy big dog Johnson

The drop in the NYC murder rate is tied to several factors - starting with a broken windows theory of going after quality of life crimes, and catching thugs who also happened to be carrying out more violent offenses. There was a serious backlog in unsolved murders because of a lack of DNA testing at the time and forensics wasn't what it has now become.

As thugs got taken off the street and put in prison, the rates started dropping more precipitously because many of those incarcerated happened to be one-person crime sprees.

527 vinnievin  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:08:31am

re: #516 pingjockey

FNC interviewed that vendor this morning. The vendor said it was a good thing him and his buddies didn't catch the fool!

I beg to differ.

528 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:09:26am

re: #523 NJDhockeyfan
Pennsylvania Amish.

529 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:10:07am

re: #527 vinnievin
Heh. Me too.

530 Ojoe  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:10:34am

re: #522 Oh no...Sand People!

Yep.

They'll pull a switcheroo on one of the nukes in the Paki inventory, put a dummy in its place, make us think they're all still there; put it in a shipping container ...

you may guess the rest

I pray this does not happen

But I would not be surprised if it did.

531 Paco from Sefarad  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:10:40am

re: #520 Mad Al-Jaffee

You want to know how stupid and inefficient our government is? Here's an example. I'm trying to download a small document - a pdf that's probably 2-3 pages long. It's taking almost an hour for it to load. Probably because we use an old version of explorer and they won't upgrade it. It's their money their paying me to post on here while I wait for this stupid document to load.

Don't you have anything else you could be doing in the meantime?

Sheesh!

532 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:11:07am

Congress Members Bet on Fall in Stocks

Some members of Congress made risky bets with their own money that U.S. stocks or bonds would fall during the financial crisis, a Wall Street Journal analysis of congressional disclosures shows.

Senators have criticized Goldman Sachs Group Inc. for profiting from the housing collapse. And Congress is considering legislation to curb Wall Street risk-taking, including the use of financial instruments known as derivatives and of leverage, or methods that amplify returns.

According to The Journal's analysis of congressional disclosures, investment accounts of 13 members of Congress or their spouses show bearish bets made in 2008 via exchange-traded funds—portfolios that trade like stocks and mirror an index. These funds were leveraged; they used derivatives and other techniques to magnify the daily moves of the index they track.

There's no evidence the legislators and their spouses used privileged information or failed to follow rules on disclosure. Congressional rules permit lawmakers and their families to invest in—or bet against—publicly held companies they oversee through committee assignments, as well as broader markets or indices. While some made money, others lost.

533 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:11:41am

re: #525 Jadespring

You would think but won't happen. These folks measure 'success' using different goal posts depending on the situation. What's 'successful' in their minds is very malleable.

Sadly, i think you're right. The twisted logic which drives one to do such things probably doesn't lend itself well to orderly philosophical musings...

534 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:11:51am

re: #530 Ojoe
I just wonder, if Dinnerjacket and his merry band of mad mullahs would give a nuke to one of their proxies?

535 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:12:09am

re: #531 Paco from Sefarad

Don't you have anything else you could be doing in the meantime?

Sheesh!

Yeah, I'm actually multi-tasking and downloading some NGO country reports.

536 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:12:24am

re: #534 pingjockey

I just wonder, if Dinnerjacket and his merry band of mad mullahs would give a nuke to one of their proxies?

In a heartbeat.

537 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:12:39am

re: #241 Nimed

It's beyond me that so many people still expect the invasion of Iraq to be retroactively validated. It was a mistake with worst consequences than 9/11 itself on a wide range of measures. And it was clearly a product of the post-9/11 environment: a disastrous government, an apathetic Congress, a scared/enraged public, and a lazy and excessively deferential media.

Yeah, but it's this "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude that I find distinctly unpleasant. That's your attitude I'm speaking of, in case you were in doubt.

538 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:13:09am

re: #535 Mad Al-Jaffee

Yeah, I'm actually multi-tasking and downloading some NGO country reports.

Is your new CD available to buy yet? Linkie?

539 prairiefire  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:13:12am

re: #443 Cato the Elder

Actually, the McLaughlin Report has a weekly listing - in silence, with pictures - of any military personnel confirmed killed since the previous listing. Maybe more often, it's been a while since I've seen it.

"This Week" on ABC on Sundays always has an "In Memoriam" section at the end of the show. The segment respectfully remarks on the deaths of noted people, and then lists all of the names of military people killed the previous week.

540 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:13:12am

re: #536 Cannadian Club Akbar
That should give the whole world pause. But, it won't.

541 vinnievin  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:13:21am

re: #531 Paco from Sefarad

Don't you have anything else you could be doing in the meantime?

Sheesh!

If only we would ask this question of our congresspeople who ... oh nevermind. It's an exercise of futility asking for govt oversight. At least he isn't surfing porn.

542 Ojoe  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:13:24am

re: #534 pingjockey

I think they would because in the big picture, the hard core of that "religion" has a death wish like you would not believe.

BBL

off to work.

543 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:13:46am

Screw profiling radical Islam. I'm starting to think we have a problem with New York tourists. /

544 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:14:06am

re: #534 pingjockey

I just wonder, if Dinnerjacket and his merry band of mad mullahs would give a nuke to one of their proxies?

In a NY minute, as long as they promise to kill Jews or Americans with it.

545 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:14:10am

re: #540 pingjockey

That should give the whole world pause. But, it won't.

Don't worry, the UN is on it.
/

546 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:14:22am

re: #542 Ojoe
Later. I've got to get going shortly.

547 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:14:59am

re: #545 Cannadian Club Akbar
That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

548 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:15:30am

re: #530 Ojoe

Yep.

They'll pull a switcheroo on one of the nukes in the Paki inventory, put a dummy in its place, make us think they're all still there; put it in a shipping container ...

you may guess the rest

I pray this does not happen

But I would not be surprised if it did.

And the Michael Moore crowd would blame ourselves, or tell us 'well more people die from lightning...'.

But hey, it's like running from a bear, just gotta outrun the guy next to you. Judging by the mind set of a lot of people, if I am not taken out by the direct hit...I'll live a LONG time.

549 Renaissance_Man  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:18:12am

re: #513 really grumpy big dog Johnson

I don't know about NYC standards for success in criminal affairs, but by any standard that I can imagine, roughly 150 unsolved murders annually is an abysmal failure. I don't think the entire state of Colorado has that many in the history of the state.

Are you sure about the 70% figure? That means that 3 of 10 murderers are remaining on the street annually. I don't know how that could be considered successful in any community.

I think you greatly underestimate how many unsolved murders occur in every single community. A quick google shows that there are, at a very rough count, somewhere over 800 unsolved murders listed by the Denver PD alone for the last 40 years. There are about 150 listed for the last decade. New York is of course worse, but it also has 10x the population.

There are a lot of unsolved murders out there. Every urban centre has them. By and large, police forces still do a pretty good job.

550 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:18:15am

re: #538 HoosierHoops

Is your new CD available to buy yet? Linkie?

I think it's on iTunes and cd baby, but I don't think I can check those sites here at work. You should be able to find it by searching on "big daddy stallings" and "blues party."

Our cd release party is this Sunday.

551 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:18:43am

re: #545 Cannadian Club Akbar

Don't worry, the UN is on it.
/

Hans Blix: Then let me look around, so I can ease the UN's collective mind. I'm sorry, but the UN must be firm with you. Let me in, or else.

Kim Jong Il: Or else what?

Hans Blix: Or else we will be very angry with you... and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.

552 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:18:58am

Christine Pelosi, attorney, author and Democratic activist

This is what a terrorist can look like: a balding white man in his 40s. Thanks to an alert street vendor and an NYPD officer who ushered in local and federal law enforcement, the Times Square would-be bomber was a bust. So far. They saw the parked car, engine running, hazards blinking, driver departing — in other words, they profiled behavior, not people. Take note, Arizona.
553 Slap  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:19:55am

re: #491 pingjockey

Mike Curtis. Equivalent to getting hit by a flying anvil. (One tough SOB -- one of the last of a breed....)

Youtube Video
554 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:20:27am

re: #550 Mad Al-Jaffee

I think it's on iTunes and cd baby, but I don't think I can check those sites here at work. You should be able to find it by searching on "big daddy stallings" and "blues party."

Our cd release party is this Sunday.

Found it..and bookmarked

555 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:20:38am

re: #552 NJDhockeyfan

Christine Pelosi, attorney, author and Democratic activist

Wha? Huh? Wahaldfjj;alwoei?

The pretzel logic and thought contortions are bruising my brain.

I have to go now.

/Any relation to Nancy? The stupid factor is off the charts.

556 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:20:39am

re: #553 Slap
That's it! IIRC, my dad and I were watching the game.

557 Jadespring  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:21:54am

re: #533 Aceofwhat?

Sadly, i think you're right. The twisted logic which drives one to do such things probably doesn't lend itself well to orderly philosophical musings...

Yep. Take as an example the group that has claimed responsibility for this, thankfully failed bomb attack. Regardless of whether they were or not, doesn't matter. Some comments here have talked about how desperate they must be to take ownership over something that didn't work, or why would anyone want to crow about something that failed.

Yep the killing part failed, but it was successful in disrupting, shutting down a major and world famous area, tons of news coverage, tons of regular people freaking out and lots and lots of people talking about it.

So the major goal was killing and maiming but some of the lesser goals which are are also satisfactory in their minds were accomplished. So yeah to some extent it was successful in their movable goal post world and something to crow about.

558 Vicious Babushka  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:21:58am

Whoa, what happened midthread?

559 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:22:07am

re: #555 Oh no...Sand People!

Wha? Huh? Wahaldfjj;alwoei?

The pretzel logic and thought contortions are bruising my brain.

I have to go now.

/Any relation to Nancy? The stupid factor is off the charts.

She is the daughter of Nancy Pelosi. Stupid runs in the family.

560 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:22:32am

re: #553 Slap
I can remember in a HS game, I ran over a ref wearing all that gear. He had a bloody nose and I'm sure the next day he was all bruised up.

561 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:23:33am

re: #558 Alouette
Someone showed up and was posting stuff about a banee. Banned? Anyway, that's what I heard. :)

562 Slap  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:24:02am

re: #556 pingjockey

It's a justifiably famous moment, and totally illustrative of the Curtis attitude -- "get off my damn field, you putz". Not a guy I'd like to collide with, pads or not.

Curtis, Butkus, Bednarik, Deacon Jones, Dave Wilcox -- those guys were HITTERS. I still enjoy football, but I LOVED it in those days....

563 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:24:32am

Time for coffee. BBL.

564 pingjockey  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:24:38am

Y'all have a good day. Keep your head on a swivel. IOW, be careful out there!

565 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:26:26am

re: #384 Cato the Elder

I said at the end of Gulf War I, and I still believe today, that our biggest mistake collectively, as a nation fighting a just war (or at least one that was plainly in the interests of Empire), was not taking out Saddam in 1991, when we had the means, the opportunity, the motive, and a clear shot. Instead, Bush I caved to wusses in the administration, the U-fucking-N, and his own pusillanimous instincts. Instead of going to Berlin to finish the job, to make an analogy, we stopped at the French border and told the Germans to rise up and overthrow the dictator. We told the Kurds in the north and the Marsh Arabs in the south that we'd have their back, and left them to die by the thousands.

There is a sense in which one can see Gulf War II as a belated balancing of the books.

People say "b-b-b-but the UN would have disapproved, and we would have lost coalition support", and I say, big fucking deal. It's easier to ask forgiveness than to beg for permission.

When you as a nation swear to God that you will stop with the liberation of Kuwait, when you promise everybody who has lent their soil to your forces so you may prosecute that war and no other, you need a very good reason to break that oath.

You will have no chance getting anyone to believe that the next oath you make is sincere, if you casually toss the last one aside, deeming it a "scrap of paper". And you never know when you will need to be believed. Credibility is beyond price.

The mistake, if there was one, was in making that solemn promise in the first place. Suppose we had said privately to the Saudis that this boil needs to be lanced, and if you allow us the use of your territory to do the job, we will do it, all of it? Who can tell now what the Saudis would have answered to that? An ambiguous public statement of purpose could have been made for window dressing and to confuse Saddam's generals.

566 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:27:15am

bbiab

567 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:27:58am

Laser creates clouds over Germany

A laser has been used to generate small clouds on demand in lab, and real-world experiments suggest this could be a way to call down rain when it's needed.

People have experimented with cloud seeding for decades in the hope of boosting rainfall, usually by sprinkling silver iodide crystals into clouds high in the atmosphere.

These crystals encourage large water droplets to form around them, and the droplets then fall as rain – in theory, at least. "The efficiency of this technique is controversial," says Jérôme Kasparian at the University of Geneva, Switzerland, one member of a research team that think lasers may be a better way to trigger rain on demand.

Kasparian and colleagues have just reported the first successful use of this technique to summon clouds from air both in the lab and in the skies over Berlin, Germany.

568 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:31:59am

re: #559 NJDhockeyfan

She is the daughter of Nancy Pelosi. Stupid runs in the family.

Sort of like with the Bushes?

569 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:32:36am

re: #557 Jadespring

Yep. Take as an example the group that has claimed responsibility for this, thankfully failed bomb attack. Regardless of whether they were or not, doesn't matter. Some comments here have talked about how desperate they must be to take ownership over something that didn't work, or why would anyone want to crow about something that failed.

Yep the killing part failed, but it was successful in disrupting, shutting down a major and world famous area, tons of news coverage, tons of regular people freaking out and lots and lots of people talking about it.

So the major goal was killing and maiming but some of the lesser goals which are are also satisfactory in their minds were accomplished. So yeah to some extent it was successful in their movable goal post world and something to crow about.

which is why i'd be happy to take claims of responsibility at their word, pen a little note of appreciation, and attach it to a predator drone.

one or two called me 'bloodthirsty' the other day for thinking such a thing, but IMHO, a false claim of responsibility is a person or group claiming that they're only a set of resources away from attempting the real thing...

570 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:33:16am

re: #567 NJDhockeyfan

Laser creates clouds over Germany

HAARP 2!

571 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:33:43am

re: #570 Aceofwhat?

HAARP 2!

Call Jesse!!!

572 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:33:48am

re: #483 pingjockey

Yes. The only way to stop such an attempt is to stop each and every vehicle going into NYC. How do you propose to do that?

Declare it a maximum security prison, build a wall around Manhattan and then start dumping all our criminals (and some occasional food supplies) inside.

Oh Wait, they already did that in a (bad) movie...

///

573 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:34:02am

New light shed on Kent State killings

Previously undisclosed FBI documents suggest that the Kent State antiwar protests were more meticulously planned than originally thought and that one or more gunshots may have been fired at embattled Ohio National Guardsmen before their killings of four students and woundings of at least nine others on that searing day in May 1970.

574 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:34:33am

Gas attack at an Afghan girl's school sickened 100+? The report discounts a mass hysteria incident, and that the symptoms included dizziness, nausea, and headaches. Attacks against several schools over several days.

575 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:35:53am

re: #572 oaktree

Declare it a maximum security prison, build a wall around Manhattan and then start dumping all our criminals (and some occasional food supplies) inside.

Oh Wait, they already did that in a (bad) movie...

///

Snake, snake, snake!

576 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:36:22am

Radical Moderate Bitch of the week

In regards to the infantile and ongoing debate regarding who’s Presidential disaster response was worse Bush/Katrina or Obama/Oil Spill…

1. Get over your conspiratorial fantasies. The President does not have the power to prevent disasters (natural or man made)

2. The President only has limited power in how quickly he responds once local first responders ask for help.

3. The President does not have the power to order the CIA to blow up Levies or Oil Rigs.

4. Can we please not refer to a city built five foot under sea level in a traditional Hurricane risk zone as a “natural” disaster?

5. Finally and most importantly – let’s not make any big decisions about long term energy and environmental policy during a crisis.

On a lighter note – if this had happened in ANWAR can you imagine the commercial featuring several volunteers trying to clean a polar bear with Dove soap?

In regards to the bombing attempt in Manhattan…

1. Forget radical Islam – we should profile New York tourists driving used cars.

2. During the 24 hour news cycle following a terrorist attack or threat, instead of hoping the terrorists are Middle Easterners, Asians, Mexican gangs, Middle Aged Angry White militia men or any other demographically challenged idiot… why don’t we wish (pray/genuflect to the deity of your choice) that we just catch the terrorists before someone gets hurt?

577 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:36:43am

re: #558 Alouette

Whoa, what happened midthread?

An actual Borgmocrat from the Borgmocrazy showed up and lit into Charles like he was on his home turf, the Swamp of the Banned.

Left links for us to come and visit. Seriously.

Seems they're not getting enough love and attention over there.

I think a Monitor Lizard took care of it for now, not Charles, because the person in question has not only not been banned, but is still logged in at the moment.

Hi, buddy! Any last words?

578 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:36:44am

re: #384 Cato the Elder

I said at the end of Gulf War I, and I still believe today, that our biggest mistake collectively, as a nation fighting a just war (or at least one that was plainly in the interests of Empire), was not taking out Saddam in 1991, when we had the means, the opportunity, the motive, and a clear shot. Instead, Bush I caved to wusses in the administration, the U-fucking-N, and his own pusillanimous instincts. Instead of going to Berlin to finish the job, to make an analogy, we stopped at the French border and told the Germans to rise up and overthrow the dictator. We told the Kurds in the north and the Marsh Arabs in the south that we'd have their back, and left them to die by the thousands.

There is a sense in which one can see Gulf War II as a belated balancing of the books.

People say "b-b-b-but the UN would have disapproved, and we would have lost coalition support", and I say, big fucking deal. It's easier to ask forgiveness than to beg for permission.

Amen, and I felt exactly the same way. It was like "What are we doing? Why aren't we taking care of the business we came here to do?".

I just think people don't have any grasp about what Iraq was all about before our invasion. I strongly suggest that people read Republic of Fear by Kanan Makiya. At the time that it was originally published he had to use a pseudonym, to protect himself from assassination. It's the most frightening and disheartening horror tale of society gone wrong that I've ever read. If you read it, there won't be any misunderstanding as to why the Baath Party and Saddam Hussein had to go.

I caution those who read the book, however. It's an intensely difficult read in many dimensions. You can read the first chapter, if you wish, at the site in my link.

579 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:37:36am

re: #574 lawhawk

Gas attack at an Afghan girl's school sickened 100+? The report discounts a mass hysteria incident, and that the symptoms included dizziness, nausea, and headaches. Attacks against several schools over several days.

Even i'm sickened. Animals.

580 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:39:50am

re: #577 Cato the Elder

An actual Borgmocrat from the Borgmocrazy showed up and lit into Charles like he was on his home turf, the Swamp of the Banned.

Left links for us to come and visit. Seriously.

Seems they're not getting enough love and attention over there.

I think a Monitor Lizard took care of it for now, not Charles, because the person in question has not only not been banned, but is still logged in at the moment.

Hi, buddy! Any last words?

Left links for us to visit? Why don't we all huff paint, too, as long as we're being cajoled to fry our neurons...makes about the same amount of sense...

581 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:39:52am

re: #579 Aceofwhat?

Even i'm sickened. Animals.

I do wish people wouldn't bring animals into this. Animals are better than people in such instances. Far better.

582 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:40:33am

NYC bomb suspect's Conn. home was in foreclosure

Court records show that the suspect in the failed Times Square bombing defaulted on a $200,000 mortgage on his Connecticut home and that the property is in foreclosure.

Records obtained by The Associated Press show that Chase Home Finance LLC sued Faisal Shahzad (FY'-sul shah-ZAHD') in September to foreclose on the home in Shelton.

Authorities say they arrested Shahzad at New York's Kennedy Airport on Monday night on a plane about to leave for Dubai.

The foreclosure records show Shahzad took out the mortgage on the property in 2004, and he co-owned the home with a woman named Huma Mian. The foreclosure case is pending in Milford Superior Court.

583 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:43:50am

re: #581 Cato the Elder

I do wish people wouldn't bring animals into this. Animals are better than people in such instances. Far better.

Nah. Animals will kill the young of their rivals in an attempt to increase the dominance of their genes. In an animal, it's a perfectly darwinistic behavior.

584 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:44:26am

re: #582 Killgore Trout

Hmmmm... Nothing like alittle radical terrorism or a murder suicide to deflect from your financial woes. Why can't people determined to exit life have the courage to go it alone?

585 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:44:33am

re: #580 Aceofwhat?

Left links for us to visit? Why don't we all huff paint, too, as long as we're being cajoled to fry our neurons...makes about the same amount of sense...

I saw a special on NatGeo, IIRC, about Inuits and the percentage of them who huff paint.

586 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:45:13am

re: #565 lostlakehiker

When you as a nation swear to God that you will stop with the liberation of Kuwait, when you promise everybody who has lent their soil to your forces so you may prosecute that war and no other, you need a very good reason to break that oath.

You will have no chance getting anyone to believe that the next oath you make is sincere, if you casually toss the last one aside, deeming it a "scrap of paper". And you never know when you will need to be believed. Credibility is beyond price.

The mistake, if there was one, was in making that solemn promise in the first place. Suppose we had said privately to the Saudis that this boil needs to be lanced, and if you allow us the use of your territory to do the job, we will do it, all of it? Who can tell now what the Saudis would have answered to that? An ambiguous public statement of purpose could have been made for window dressing and to confuse Saddam's generals.

Nevertheless, the choice to finish the job was on the table, and was considered seriously, only to be vetoed at the last possible minute. Which means the possibility of making the choice was factored in from the beginning.

The whining would have stopped eventually, and there is the precedent of "hot pursuit". I think most of the coalition would have been secretly glad had we taken Saddam out in '91. As for the UN? Fuck 'em then and triple-fuck 'em today.

587 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:45:15am

re: #585 Cannadian Club Akbar

I saw a special on NatGeo, IIRC, about Inuits and the percentage of them who huff paint.

Argh. Now i just feel bad.

588 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:45:29am

re: #573 NJDhockeyfan

The FBI may have had that fantasy. I've talked to Ohio National Guard guys who were there. No shots from the students. Sorry.

William

589 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:45:57am

re: #584 DaddyG

Hmmm... Nothing like alittle radical terrorism or a murder suicide to deflect from your financial woes. Why can't people determined to exit life have the courage to go it alone?

was it that, or did homeboy stop making payments once he had enough of a plan to know when he'd be trying to leave the country?

590 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:46:28am

re: #587 Aceofwhat?

Argh. Now i just feel bad.

Why? Are you a paint salesman?
/

591 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:47:39am

re: #589 Aceofwhat?

was it that, or did homeboy stop making payments once he had enough of a plan to know when he'd be trying to leave the country?


Good point. I've just seen too many murder suicides in the news lately by people in trouble financially. It seemed to fit a theme.

592 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:47:56am

re: #573 NJDhockeyfan

New light shed on Kent State killings

"Suggest", "may have", un-named sources from 40 years ago. That Moonie Times article is a masterpiece of un-reporting.

593 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:48:26am

re: #590 Cannadian Club Akbar

Why? Are you a paint salesman?
/


That was in very poor taste... and I cannot stop laughing.

594 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:48:42am

re: #586 Cato the Elder

Nevertheless, the choice to finish the job was on the table, and was considered seriously, only to be vetoed at the last possible minute. Which means the possibility of making the choice was factored in from the beginning.

The whining would have stopped eventually, and there is the precedent of "hot pursuit". I think most of the coalition would have been secretly glad had we taken Saddam out in '91. As for the UN? Fuck 'em then and triple-fuck 'em today.

Tough call. There is still plenty of whining about the actual overthrow of Saddam today...Nimred thinks it's worse than terrorism. And that was after 15 or so UN Resolutions warning Saddam. You really think there would have been less whining if we had broken a promise to go get Saddam rather than keeping a promise to go get Saddam?

I'm not so sure...

595 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:50:03am

re: #594 Aceofwhat?

keeping kept

pimf

596 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:50:45am

re: #583 Aceofwhat?

Nah. Animals will kill the young of their rivals in an attempt to increase the dominance of their genes. In an animal, it's a perfectly darwinistic behavior.

Animals don't attack entire other populations of animals with gas. That is left to the shitebags we call human.

Again, don't insult animals.

597 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:51:37am

re: #495 Jadespring

And Homeland does the prevention part as well. We just don't tend to hear much about what is prevented unless there's a reason for it to be released to the public.

And yeah unfortunately not every single incident is going to get caught onto before hand. Nature of the beast.

So yeah here's my blanket congratulations to all the security work that goes on that prevents incidents that we never hear about as well as congratulations for the quick catch on this one.

That's a bandwagon that I 'm willing to join. We hear about the occasional terror attempt, but never hear about the ones that never happened. There's a lot of good work going on behind the scenes.

I happen to think that we can do much better, and I believe that we will. It may or may not happen after another mass casualty attack, but I sincerely hope it's before.

598 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:52:54am

re: #576 DaddyG

Radical Moderate Bitch of the week

In regards to the infantile and ongoing debate regarding who’s Presidential disaster response was worse Bush/Katrina or Obama/Oil Spill…

1. Get over your conspiratorial fantasies. The President does not have the power to prevent disasters (natural or man made)

2. The President only has limited power in how quickly he responds once local first responders ask for help.

3. The President does not have the power to order the CIA to blow up Levies or Oil Rigs.

4. Can we please not refer to a city built five foot under sea level in a traditional Hurricane risk zone as a “natural” disaster?

5. Finally and most importantly – let’s not make any big decisions about long term energy and environmental policy during a crisis.

6. It was Bush and Cheney's fault!!!

599 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:53:05am

re: #594 Aceofwhat?

Tough call. There is still plenty of whining about the actual overthrow of Saddam today...Nimred thinks it's worse than terrorism. And that was after 15 or so UN Resolutions warning Saddam. You really think there would have been less whining if we had broken a promise to go get Saddam rather than keeping a promise to go get Saddam?

I'm not so sure...

I'm so utterly uninterested in the whining, you would not believe it.

600 RadicalModerate  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:56:25am

re: #582 Killgore Trout

NYC bomb suspect's Conn. home was in foreclosure

For some reason I'm getting more of a vibe that this guy is more of a case of someone who got disillusioned with his US life sometime after his naturalization- maybe due to getting caught in the US financial meltdown - and decided to leave a parting gift to NYC than a "sleeper cell" jihadist-type. The trail of evidence this guy left strikes me more of a angry soloist than part of a bigger conspiracy.

601 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:57:32am

This week Janet Napolitano is responsible for cleaning pelicans in LA, sorting out Latino paperwork in AZ and solving parking problems in Times Square. Does anyone else think the scope of work for DHS is a little too broad?

602 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:57:58am

re: #576 DaddyG

Radical Moderate Bitch of the week

In regards to the infantile and ongoing debate regarding who’s Presidential disaster response was worse Bush/Katrina or Obama/Oil Spill…

[...]

5. Finally and most importantly – let’s not make any big decisions about long term energy and environmental policy during a crisis.

What crisis?

The policy changes we need to make are clear and have been for some time.

We won't make them anyway, but please don't use this "crisis" as an excuse. The reason we won't make them is because the vested interests won't let it happen.

603 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:58:28am

re: #596 Cato the Elder

Animals don't attack entire other populations of animals with gas. That is left to the shitebags we call human.

Again, don't insult animals.

It's no insult. An animal understandably uses the tools at its disposal in an attempt to be dominant, including killing others of its own species.

In a human, the same activity is deplorable, and i only use that word because i'm at a temporary loss for a stronger term.

To act "as an animal" is to leave all shred of morality and humanity behind. It's ok for animals to act like animals. They're animals. It's no insult to them; rather, it's a towering insult to say that a person has discarded everything which makes them human. God said that He made us in His image, by which I believe He means that He added a spiritual component to our physical body. To act as an animal is to discard one's spirit and thereby any shred of redeemable quality.

604 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:58:50am

re: #601 Decatur Deb

Blame Bush! /well, not really - since under President Bush, he and Congress reorganized dozens of agencies into the DHS, now headed by Napolitano.

605 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:59:33am

re: #600 RadicalModerate

For some reason I'm getting more of a vibe that this guy is more of a case of someone who got disillusioned with his US life sometime after his naturalization- maybe due to getting caught in the US financial meltdown - and decided to leave a parting gift to NYC than a "sleeper cell" jihadist-type. The trail of evidence this guy left strikes me more of a angry soloist than part of a bigger conspiracy.

There is this. Not that I trust it...
[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

606 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 7:59:41am

re: #526 lawhawk

The drop in the NYC murder rate is tied to several factors - starting with a broken windows theory of going after quality of life crimes, and catching thugs who also happened to be carrying out more violent offenses. There was a serious backlog in unsolved murders because of a lack of DNA testing at the time and forensics wasn't what it has now become.

As thugs got taken off the street and put in prison, the rates started dropping more precipitously because many of those incarcerated happened to be one-person crime sprees.


Have you seen any good data comparing the NYC crime rate to those of other major cities over time? I know NYC's dropped, and so did most large cities, but I haven't seen anything where one could compare the relative timing of those declines.

607 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:00:30am

re: #603 Aceofwhat?

It's no insult. An animal understandably uses the tools at its disposal in an attempt to be dominant, including killing others of its own species.

In a human, the same activity is deplorable, and i only use that word because i'm at a temporary loss for a stronger term.

To act "as an animal" is to leave all shred of morality and humanity behind. It's ok for animals to act like animals. They're animals. It's no insult to them; rather, it's a towering insult to say that a person has discarded everything which makes them human. God said that He made us in His image, by which I believe He means that He added a spiritual component to our physical body. To act as an animal is to discard one's spirit and thereby any shred of redeemable quality.

I couldn't fail to disagree less.

608 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:02:09am

.

609 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:02:19am

re: #599 Cato the Elder

I'm so utterly uninterested in the whining, you would not believe it.

good man...

610 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:02:35am

re: #549 Renaissance_Man

I think you greatly underestimate how many unsolved murders occur in every single community. A quick google shows that there are, at a very rough count, somewhere over 800 unsolved murders listed by the Denver PD alone for the last 40 years. There are about 150 listed for the last decade. New York is of course worse, but it also has 10x the population.

There are a lot of unsolved murders out there. Every urban centre has them. By and large, police forces still do a pretty good job.

My error. A local newspaper published a story not long ago which suggested otherwise, and I should have known better than to trust a newspaper to get the story right. Thank you for correcting me.

611 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:02:37am

My radio just said Pakistan has a guy under arrest with regards to the NYC attempted bombing. More to come there as well.

612 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:03:17am

re: #607 Cato the Elder

I couldn't fail to disagree less.

ok

613 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:04:42am

re: #611 Cannadian Club Akbar

My radio just said Pakistan has a guy under arrest with regards to the NYC attempted bombing. More to come there as well.

Report: Car Bomb Arrest In Pakistan
Second Suspect Taken Into Custody



MYFOXNY.COM - FOX News is reporting that authorities in Karachi, Pakistan have arrested one person in connection with the attempted bombing in Times Square on Saturday.

On Monday, federal authorities and the NYPD arrested Faisal Shahzad, 30, a U.S. citizen from Pakistan for allegedly driving an SUV loaded with bomb materials into Times Square.

Shahzad is expected to appear in federal court in lower Manhattan on Tuesday. Charges against him have not been made public.

The Associated Press, citing a law enforcement official, reports that Shahzad has claimed to have acted alone.

614 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:05:20am

re: #608 NJDhockeyfan

.

!

615 Decatur Deb  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:05:47am

Work to do. BBL

616 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:06:00am

re: #606 garhighway

I can recall news reports showing that while rates dropped in many cities, it dropped by a much greater percentage in NYC than other major cities.

Here are rates for NYC. LA. Chicago. Newark NJ and Philly.

You'll notice that the rates per 100,000 are lower in NYC than those other cities, often by a wide margin.

617 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:06:22am

re: #600 RadicalModerate

For some reason I'm getting more of a vibe that this guy is more of a case of someone who got disillusioned with his US life sometime after his naturalization- maybe due to getting caught in the US financial meltdown - and decided to leave a parting gift to NYC than a "sleeper cell" jihadist-type. The trail of evidence this guy left strikes me more of a angry soloist than part of a bigger conspiracy.

Possibly but it's also possible that he made an easy recruit for some jihadis who helped him out. Sound like he was too lazy or stupid to make his bomb correctly.

618 vinnievin  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:06:52am

re: #582 Killgore Trout

gee, he seemed like such a responsible chap

619 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:07:24am

re: #612 Aceofwhat?

ok

Say "demons" rather than "animals" and I'd agree with you. You do animals a grave injustice by comparing evil people to them.

620 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:07:28am

re: #613 NJDhockeyfan

Could be a relative? We'll have to wait to see more details on that particular arrest.

621 charles_martel  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:07:37am

re: #600 RadicalModerate

For some reason I'm getting more of a vibe that this guy is more of a case of someone who got disillusioned with his US life sometime after his naturalization- maybe due to getting caught in the US financial meltdown - and decided to leave a parting gift to NYC than a "sleeper cell" jihadist-type. The trail of evidence this guy left strikes me more of a angry soloist than part of a bigger conspiracy.

Just because he may have acted alone does not mean he is not a terrorist. Individuals inspired to execute acts of terror are just as dangerous as "networked" terrorists, simply because they are unpredictable, and are less detectable. Al Qaeda types my be detected beforehand because of cell phone chatter, bank records, previously seized evidence, etc. A lone wolf comes at us out of the blue.

622 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:07:46am

Dow -262

Yikes!

623 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:07:59am

re: #608 NJDhockeyfan

.

Hi You..I was watching Hockey highlights on ESPN a few minutes ago..I know nothing about Hockey... How come there are no 6'6" 345 lb Goalies? who could get a puck by him? Just stand there big guy..
/

625 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:09:24am

re: #622 Killgore Trout

Greek situation has investors spooked in a bad way, particularly because the Greek unions aren't taking this situation lying down.

626 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:09:30am

re: #600 RadicalModerate

For some reason I'm getting more of a vibe that this guy is more of a case of someone who got disillusioned with his US life sometime after his naturalization- maybe due to getting caught in the US financial meltdown - and decided to leave a parting gift to NYC than a "sleeper cell" jihadist-type. The trail of evidence this guy left strikes me more of a angry soloist than part of a bigger conspiracy.

Oops.
An arrest in Pakistan.

More to come on this, I think.

627 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:09:55am

The President's comments going on right now are spot on, IMO.

628 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:10:21am

re: #619 Cato the Elder

Say "demons" rather than "animals" and I'd agree with you. You do animals a grave injustice by comparing evil people to them.

if i understand you correctly, in the intent to cause pain and suffering in addition to death, humans perpetrate an evil that animals never do or will.

i can subscribe to that.

did i paraphrase accurately enough?

629 Silvergirl  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:10:32am

Here's a photo of the Times Square would-be bomber. I hadn't seen one yet, but CNN has it.

630 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:11:12am

re: #622 Killgore Trout

Dow -262

Yikes!

Yikes is what I'm thinking, too!

Yahoo has a feature where you can enter your stocks, the price you paid for them, and how much you're up or down for the day, as well as how much you're up or down for the entire time you've owned that stock.

I'm doing OK overall, still up from where I bought, but I've lost close to 15% over the past few days.
ugh.

631 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:11:36am

I'm just waiting for the "Gulf Hurricane Causes Oil Slick To Threaten Guantanamo" headline.

632 really grumpy big dog Johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:11:49am

re: #600 RadicalModerate

For some reason I'm getting more of a vibe that this guy is more of a case of someone who got disillusioned with his US life sometime after his naturalization- maybe due to getting caught in the US financial meltdown - and decided to leave a parting gift to NYC than a "sleeper cell" jihadist-type. The trail of evidence this guy left strikes me more of a angry soloist than part of a bigger conspiracy.

There is evidence that the bomb followed a pattern created by another jihadist, so I'd say the jury's still out on the idea that it was just a disgruntled emigre.

You can read about the bomb similarity issue on the internet.

633 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:12:35am

re: #631 DaddyG

I'm just waiting for the "Gulf Hurricane Causes Oil Slick To Threaten Guantanamo" headline.

The Bush/Cheney hurricane-steering machine strikes again!

634 vinnievin  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:13:14am

re: #601 Decatur Deb

This week Janet Napolitano is responsible for cleaning pelicans in LA, sorting out Latino paperwork in AZ and solving parking problems in Times Square. Does anyone else think the scope of work for DHS is a little too broad?

Yeah, can't we just get a couple more czars for some of this?

635 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:13:44am

re: #629 Silvergirl

Here's a photo of the Times Square would-be bomber. I hadn't seen one yet, but CNN has it.

dude needs to wax the unibrow...just sayin'...

636 Paco from Sefarad  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:13:50am

re: #535 Mad Al-Jaffee

Yeah, I'm actually multi-tasking and downloading some NGO country reports.

Glad to hear it!

You did actually say, "It's their money their paying me to post on here while I wait for this stupid document to load."

I know some people who actually do wait, and watch the progress bar - they also think that moving the mouse around increases download speed and prevents the connection from freezing. ;o)

637 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:14:47am

re: #600 RadicalModerate

For some reason I'm getting more of a vibe that this guy is more of a case of someone who got disillusioned with his US life sometime after his naturalization- maybe due to getting caught in the US financial meltdown - and decided to leave a parting gift to NYC than a "sleeper cell" jihadist-type. The trail of evidence this guy left strikes me more of a angry soloist than part of a bigger conspiracy.

How does that fit with his just having come back from Pakistan?

He had a Facebook page with 115 friends. I guarantee you the authorities will know more about all of them within 24 hours, and a great deal more about him. And above is a link to a story that says an associate has already been arrested in Pakistan.

As for the speculation about his potential financial woes - what orifice did you pull that out of?

638 Silvergirl  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:14:53am

Plus, animals never make spelling or grammatical errors, nor do they feel compelled to correct them.

639 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:15:34am

re: #638 Silvergirl

Plus, animals never make spelling or grammatical errors, nor do they feel compelled to correct them.


Except for spelling Bees.

640 Silvergirl  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:16:15am

re: #639 DaddyG

Except for spelling Bees.

Naturally.

641 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:16:53am

... and now for a light-hearted story of the morning.

A Phillies fan was tasered at a Phillies game last night for running on to the field. First time a fan has ever been tasered for running on to a MLB field.

I don't quite get why some people think that this was an unacceptable use of force, when the usual outcome is that the guy running on the field gets pancaked by a couple of security guards and tackled harshly. Here? The guy drops and security leisurely deals with the guy with no lasting aftereffects.

642 RadicalModerate  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:17:11am

re: #621 charles_martel

Just because he may have acted alone does not mean he is not a terrorist. Individuals inspired to execute acts of terror are just as dangerous as "networked" terrorists, simply because they are unpredictable, and are less detectable. Al Qaeda types my be detected beforehand because of cell phone chatter, bank records, previously seized evidence, etc. A lone wolf comes at us out of the blue.

I never said that is wasn't a terrorist act.
Attempting to detonate explosives in a population center like Times Square is terroristic by definition, just as much as Eric Rudolph blowing up a satchel charge in Atlanta's Centennial Park in 1996, or Joel Hinrichs blowing himself up in front of the University of Oklahoma football stadium in 2005.
What I said was that this guy doesn't fit the AQ jihadist profile that guys like the underwear and shoe bombers.

643 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:17:48am

re: #628 Aceofwhat?

if i understand you correctly, in the intent to cause pain and suffering in addition to death, humans perpetrate an evil that animals never do or will.

i can subscribe to that.

did i paraphrase accurately enough?

Except that you don't go nearly far enough into man's demonic nature to set him as far apart from the innocent animals as his vileness demands.

644 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:17:49am

re: #641 lawhawk

Faceplant!!

645 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:17:55am

re: #638 Silvergirl

Plus, animals never make spelling or grammatical errors, nor do they feel compelled to correct them.

i'll upding that as soon as i'm finished choking on my coffee;)

646 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:18:40am

re: #641 lawhawk
Back in the '20s they used to use Tommy Guns for crowd control at Yankees games. People have no sense of history. /

647 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:18:45am

re: #637 Cato the Elder

As for the speculation about his potential financial woes - what orifice did you pull that out of?

NYC Bomb Suspect's Shelton Home Was in Foreclosure
[Link: www.nbcconnecticut.com...]

Officials search Connecticut apartment of Times Square bomb suspect
[Link: www.latimes.com...]

In the working-class neighborhood of Shelton, Conn., north of New York City, where Shahzad had lived for several years, neighbor Brenda Thurman said Shahzad had a wife and two children and stayed to himself. "He didn't like to come out during the day," Thurman told The Associated Press. She said Shahzad told her husband he had a job on Wall Street, but that the Shahzad family left the home a few months ago after it fell into foreclosure.

648 RadicalModerate  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:18:49am

re: #642 RadicalModerate

PIMF: that *this* wasn't a terrorist act.

649 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:20:07am

re: #616 lawhawk

I can recall news reports showing that while rates dropped in many cities, it dropped by a much greater percentage in NYC than other major cities.

Here are rates for NYC. LA. Chicago. Newark NJ and Philly.

You'll notice that the rates per 100,000 are lower in NYC than those other cities, often by a wide margin.

Interesting stuff. The declines in violent crime rates over time are striking (comparing 1990 to 2005):

NYC: down 71%
CHI: down 58%
LA: down 65%
US as a whole: down 35%

650 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:21:28am

re: #647 Liberal Classic

sure, but so what? the first thing i thought was "well, if i was running away to Karachi, i'd stop paying my mortgage too...hellooo first class!"

651 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:21:48am

re: #649 garhighway

Interesting stuff. The declines in violent crime rates over time are striking (comparing 1990 to 2005):

NYC: down 71%
CHI: down 58%
LA: down 65%
US as a whole: down 35%

That would seem to indicate that some crime was moving to the suburbs and rural areas. Could that be related to Meth vs. Crack user demographics?

652 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:22:00am

re: #636 Paco from Sefarad

Glad to hear it!

You did actually say, "It's their money their paying me to post on here while I wait for this stupid document to load."

I know some people who actually do wait, and watch the progress bar - they also think that moving the mouse around increases download speed and prevents the connection from freezing. ;o)

I usually just yell at my computer. Sometimes I wish I had a punching bag and boxing gloves in my office.

653 darthstar  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:22:13am

I'm guessing they waited until this guy boarded the plane for Dubai before arresting him to see if he met with anyone else before trying to leave the country.

Simple things to consider:
1. The police and FBI had the previous owner of the Pathfinder within an hour or two for questioning.
2. They had the email from the buyer via Craigslist...with his name.
3. Within an hour of that, they would have had him under surveillance.

This guy didn't 'almost get away'...they caught him in the easiest place possible - post security check at an airport. The only people carrying guns at that point are the good guys.

654 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:23:09am

re: #651 DaddyG

That would seem to indicate that some crime was moving to the suburbs and rural areas. Could that be related to Meth vs. Crack user demographics?

Not necessarily. It could be that crime didn't go down as much in non-metropolitan areas. We need more numbers to say for sure.

655 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:23:12am

Heh.
My dog and our original cat enjoy the sun. (3 photos, scroll through to see them all)
Little do they know they both have a visit to the vet scheduled for this afternoon!

656 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:23:13am

Police arrest suspected 'Pink Panther' jewel robber: Interpol

LYON, France - Police in Montenegro arrested a suspected member of the Pink Panthers, a gang accused of robbing jewels worth hundreds of millions of Euros in heists worldwide, Interpol said Tuesday.

The France-based cross-border police organization said the suspect was Bojan Vuckovic, a 24-year-old Serbian wanted in Austria for the armed robbery of a jewellery shop in Vienna in November 2008.

Vuckovic was arrested "during a check by Montenegro police at the Montenegrin-Serbian border, after they identified him on the basis of nominal information supplied by Austrian authorities," Interpol said in a statement.

Interpol has an international cell set up specially to bust the Pink Panthers, whom it suspects of stealing jewels worth more than 250 million Euros (330 million dollars) in numerous heists worldwide over the past decade.

Vuckovic's is "the latest in a series of arrests of Pink Panther suspects in recent years by police worldwide working in liaison with Interpol's Pink Panthers Project, including high-profile arrests in Cyprus, France and Monaco."

657 charles_martel  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:23:13am

re: #642 RadicalModerate

I never said that is wasn't a terrorist act.
Attempting to detonate explosives in a population center like Times Square is terroristic by definition, just as much as Eric Rudolph blowing up a satchel charge in Atlanta's Centennial Park in 1996, or Joel Hinrichs blowing himself up in front of the University of Oklahoma football stadium in 2005.
What I said was that this guy doesn't fit the AQ jihadist profile that guys like the underwear and shoe bombers.

Well, you suggested that he was "someone who got disillusioned with his US". That's a far cry from someone choosing to join the jihad.

658 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:24:25am

re: #655 reine.de.tout

Heh.
My dog and our original cat enjoy the sun. (3 photos, scroll through to see them all)
Little do they know they both have a visit to the vet scheduled for this afternoon!

Now that's bliss. Seems like they get along well?

659 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:24:48am

re: #651 DaddyG

That's one of the theories. With the crackdown in the big cities, the crime moved to areas that didn't have the resources to thwart it as found in the big cities.

660 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:24:52am

re: #655 reine.de.tout

Heh.
My dog and our original cat enjoy the sun. (3 photos, scroll through to see them all)
Little do they know they both have a visit to the vet scheduled for this afternoon!

Awww..Your dog looks like Winston in size and color..How cute

661 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:25:04am

re: #657 charles_martel

If he were merely "disillusioned" he could have simply left the country without paying his debts.

662 charles_martel  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:25:11am

re: #653 darthstar

This guy didn't 'almost get away'...they caught him in the easiest place possible - post security check at an airport. The only people carrying guns at that point are the good guys.

Well, waiting until the plane backed away from the gate and started to taxi away is cutting it too close for my taste.

663 Paco from Sefarad  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:25:21am

re: #652 Mad Al-Jaffee

I usually just yell at my computer. Sometimes I wish I had a punching bag and boxing gloves in my office.

One of the advantages of working at home - I take my coffee out to the back yard and fire off some BBs at a photo of Bill Gates ;-/

664 DaddyG  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:25:28am

re: #655 reine.de.tout

Is that "original cat" as opposed to?

Cloned Cat?
Copy Cat?

665 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:25:34am

re: #656 NJDhockeyfan

Police arrest suspected 'Pink Panther' jewel robber: Interpol

whoever built this castle put the stairs in the wrong place, you know...

666 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:27:21am

German man marries his cat

Uwe Mitzscherlich (39) from Germany has married his ailing cat Cecelia (15), before his beloved spouse gets to kitty heaven.

Though marrying animals is illegal in just about every corner of the globe, though Hollywood types marry each others pets, the mind works in mysterious ways for some.

Uwe said he fell in love with his cat when they met a decade ago at a tourist Sassnitz resort on the Baltic sea.

Fearing the long claws of the law, Uwe hired a local actor to officiate the nuptials.

While society has a soft spot for their furry companions, some it is feared enjoy taking things the nth degree. Whether for publicity or mental issues some just prefer the company of pets over human interaction.

No word yet on how the honeymoon went, but rest assured ailing or not there will be scratch marks on someone if consummation of the marriage vows takes place.

667 kirkspencer  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:28:33am

There's a small flaw in the "gotta stop'em all" mentality that's been brushed against.

"They only have to get one" assumes one will break us. I'm afraid I don't think we're that fragile. It's a tragedy, it's not the apocalypse.

The mentality also requires intensive measures to conduct - expensive, invasive measures. Don't get complacent and think they'll only apply to "them". EVERYONE must be subject to the security measures at all times. Otherwise the experience of the French in Algeria haunts us, where light-skinned Algerians bypassed security points with ease.

Finally, a minor adjustment to the first point. If you believe the danger of one success significant enough to allow the security measures, the inevitable success of an attack will be more devastating. Two branches will form - call them double-down and give up.

I'm not saying do nothing. I'm saying accept that you'll stop most, not all, and don't need to destroy our nation to save it.

668 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:28:43am

re: #662 charles_martel

Well, waiting until the plane backed away from the gate and started to taxi away is cutting it too close for my taste.

Maybe, but it is like an episode of Law and Order except no one died.
The perp leaves just enough information to get caught and the Feds/NYPD get him right before the plane takes off.

(I would assume that the moment they had a name to go with the buyer of the car that name and face went up on the no fly list.)

669 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:30:28am

This may have already been posted. Haven't the time to skim the thread.

There are Taiban fingerprints all over this.

Long War Journal, May 2nd (for background, re the video)

Long War Journal, May 4th (video was uplinked from CT)

670 kirkspencer  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:30:51am

re: #651 DaddyG

That would seem to indicate that some crime was moving to the suburbs and rural areas. Could that be related to Meth vs. Crack user demographics?

Alternate possibility: non-urban areas started from a lower level -- there is a point of diminishing returns, I think.

671 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:31:00am

re: #655 reine.de.tout

Heh.
My dog and our original cat enjoy the sun. (3 photos, scroll through to see them all)
Little do they know they both have a visit to the vet scheduled for this afternoon!

Nice.

672 charles_martel  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:31:08am

re: #668 webevintage

(I would assume that the moment they had a name to go with the buyer of the car that name and face went up on the no fly list.)

If he were on a no-fly list, he would not have been allowed to board the plane.

673 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:31:31am

Where Is the Philanthropy of Muslim Millionaires?

Moved by the miserable plight of Afghan girls, Hollywood superstar Angelina Jolie has set up a school at a cost of $75,000 to accommodate as many as 800 students.

The question is, where are the Muslim millionaires and billionaires and what have they done to alleviate the plight of the Afghans who have suffered immensely in a more than 30-year war imposed on them first by the collapsed Soviet Union and now by the United States and Europe?

Afghan Muslims have been subjected for more than three decades to one of the worst forms of killings and atrocities ever known in human history. Despite its ancient and rich history it is today a bankrupt wasteland. What have the Muslims—from Indonesia all the way across Europe—done to save this country and protect its people?

The vulgar opulence of the ruling elite of some rich Muslim countries, stretching from the Gulf to Brunei, is common knowledge. Their palaces of extreme luxury built with the natural wealth of their countries from which their people should have benefited, private planes that are more like flying palaces, gold-plated toilets, vulgarly decadent lifestyles, and, on top of all, willingness to collaborate with the crusaders against their own Muslim brothers and sisters show the low moral depths to which they have descended.

674 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:31:53am

re: #658 Aceofwhat?

Now that's bliss. Seems like they get along well?

BFF's.

675 reine.de.tout  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:32:47am

re: #664 DaddyG

Is that "original cat" as opposed to?

Cloned Cat?
Copy Cat?

The first cat we had.
She's almost 20 years old.

676 Silvergirl  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:33:05am

re: #622 Killgore Trout

Dow -262

Yikes!


US Stocks Plunge As Fears Over Europe Escalate

Tuesday's broad drop came as spooked investors worried that the European markets' declines showed a lack of confidence in the Greek bailout package hammered out over the weekend. The euro fell to a 12-month low against the dollar as doubt surged over whether the Greek government can carry out the strict austerity measures required in the aid package.

"From Europe to China, markets have been a lot weaker," said Lorenzo Di Mattia, portfolio manager at Sibilla Capital. With Europe and China both of crucial importance to world markets, "any disappointment from both regions is not good," he said, worrying that the budget problems could spread to Ireland, Spain, Italy and Portugal, and put Eastern European countries at risk as well.

677 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:33:58am

re: #655 reine.de.tout

Heh.
My dog and our original cat enjoy the sun. (3 photos, scroll through to see them all)
Little do they know they both have a visit to the vet scheduled for this afternoon!

awwwwww

678 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:34:46am

re: #673 NJDhockeyfan

The Islamists don't want to teach girls, and the terrorists routinely target girls' schools to dissuade them from being taught basics. That effectively eliminates 50% of the population from getting a proper education. For those who do get taught, the money and focus is more on religious studies than a study of general knowledge that can improve lives and form the backbone of an educated populace.

679 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:36:44am

re: #600 RadicalModerate

For some reason I'm getting more of a vibe that this guy is more of a case of someone who got disillusioned with his US life sometime after his naturalization- maybe due to getting caught in the US financial meltdown - and decided to leave a parting gift to NYC than a "sleeper cell" jihadist-type. The trail of evidence this guy left strikes me more of a angry soloist than part of a bigger conspiracy.

I wonder if this is actually going to fall somewhere in-between. The financial hardship, failing to make ends meet, etc. causes the person to start reaching for something to compensate. Enter radical religious feelings, radicalization (blaming an external entity for one's woes; e.g. Western Capitalism is screwing me on purpose), trip to Pakistan with a visit to some radical group, and then come home and make the attempt. You get both threads having their effect on the outcome.

680 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:41:10am

Ahmadinejad cancels UN press conference, as families of detained Americans seek to meet him

The United Nations public affairs office informs that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has cancelled a press conference scheduled for 3pm today.

Meantime, the mothers of three American hikers detained in Iran for the past nine months without charge are trying to get a meeting with the Iranian leader, as is Christine Levinson, the wife of retired FBI agent Robert Levinson who went missing after a meeting on Kish Island in March 2007.

U.S. Senators Barbara Boxer (D-CA), Bob Casey (D-PA), Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) and Al Franken (D-MN) are holding press conference at 1130am today to urge Ahmadinejad to release the three hikers.

681 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:41:20am

re: #655 reine.de.tout


Little do they know they both have a visit to the vet scheduled for this afternoon!

Are they going there to get tutored? (old Far Side cartoon reference)

682 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:43:19am

re: #517 lawhawk

Somalia and Chechnya were failed states even before the jihadis came to view them as safe havens. The jihadis flock to them because they are failed states, but they also go to Pakistan because of the border regions - and even with the Islamists having full support and have made multiple attempts to overthrow the government there, they've fallen short.

It's not so much the failed state aspect, it's just that they were workable states until the Jihadis got there. Both had half decent infrastructures left behind and both went to hell when there were a preponderance of Jihadis.

So, you now think that the threat is overrated? That's fine - but as someone who regularly utilizes the mass transit repeatedly targeted by terrorists - who works next to Ground Zero (itself targeted twice), takes the tunnels (targeted multiple times), etc. the threat is far more substantial than if you're from somewhere in suburban America. The odds of being a victim from a terror attack increase the more frequently you're using the very systems/institutions that have been repeatedly targeted.

I know the threat and actual damage caused is overrated. It's not a case of me being glib, either. The effectiveness and the scope of the attacks peaked in 2001. That was their zenith.

We've also boosted our security and surveillance following 9/11 to make it more difficult for terrorists to hijack airlines (armored cockpits to thwart hijackings, etc).

I guess that's why they decided to switch tactics and start blowing up all the bridges and tunnels across the USA with their huge army of sleeper Jihadis.

The key is to remain vigilant and if you let down your guard, the terrorists can and will take advantage.

You sound like I used to.

Actually - they went from hijacking planes with nothing more than boxcutters to making all kinds of bombs that evaded detection by airport screeners. So, now a hijacking is much more difficult to attempt because of the armored cockpits, but screeners still can't pick up the liquid explosives that hijackers now use in their recent attempts.

See, this is what everyone seems to forget about the essence of the tactics used by Jihadis: they hit you where you aren't. It is, by and large, an insurgency, right? We can agree that they aren't a high tech, regular army but more of a sneaky bunch with limited numbers.

It follows that if they wanted to make an impact on something symbolic, and not well protected. So, they would have taken out numerous bridges and tunnels. They would be driving explosive laden trucks into shopping malls. They would be doing all manner of mayhem. They aren't because they can't. It's not that they don't want to. Hell, I want to live in a giant mansion with walls made of plasma TV's. I can't.

Lack of ambition isn't the problem, it is ability. From inception to execution, 9-11 took almost a decade from planning to Ground Zero. With disruption of training networks and funding, how long do you think it will take to mount something on a similar scale? Longer than a decade, because they were unmolested prior to this.

The paranoia has to stop.

683 Political Atheist  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:44:07am

re: #655 reine.de.tout

Cute!

684 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:44:42am

Insurance will cover about $160 million of claims relating to the Deepwater Horizon spill for one company involved.

Anadarko Petroleum Corp. says insurance will cover more than $160 million of costs related to the Gulf of Mexico rig disaster.

The company owns a 25 percent non-operating interest in the field where a rig leased by a unit of BP PLC exploded and sank two weeks ago. Oil continues leaking from the well and the resulting spill is threading wildlife and businesses along the Gulf coastline.

In an SEC filing Anadarko says net insurance coverage will likely total about $177.5 million, less deductibles of $15 million.

Figure that BP likely has a similar policy, so that would be another $160 million towards the costs.

685 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:45:03am

re: #680 NJDhockeyfan

Ahmadinejad cancels UN press conference, as families of detained Americans seek to meet him

Pathetic to witness the families of the Islamofascist dictator's victims forced to grovel at his feet while the US government does squat.

686 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:46:51am

re: #680 NJDhockeyfan

Ahmadinejad cancels UN press conference, as families of detained Americans seek to meet him

re: #685 Spare O'Lake

Pathetic to witness the families of the Islamofascist dictator's victims forced to grovel at his feet while the US government does squat.

Dinnerjacket will probably release them to make himself look good to the rest of the world. Kinda like the British soldiers. Just my opinion.

687 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:49:17am

re: #684 lawhawk

Insurance will cover about $160 million of claims relating to the Deepwater Horizon spill for one company involved. Figure that BP likely has a similar policy, so that would be another $160 million towards the costs.

BP is self-insured.

688 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:49:25am

re: #682 PAUL_MACDONALD

Somalia was not a workable state before the jihadis got there. Chechnya was a failed state from the moment the Soviet Union broke up and the Russians tried to extend and maintain control there.

Your assumption that 9/11 was the zenith supposes that other attacks aren't in the pipeline. It also ignores the scope of attacks like the London bombings, Madrid bombings, Mumbai attacks, which killed fewer people than 9/11, but used similar numbers of terrorists to cause all manner of havoc in those affected cities.

Those attacks didn't take years of planning, and the 9/11 attacks genesis was in the failed 1993 attack, but KSM came up with the operational plans in less than a decade.

In fact, your general view of the past couple of posts sounds almost the way I did between the 1993 attacks and 9/11 - that the attacks were bad, but not so widespread or dangerous that we can't reduce the risks.

689 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:49:57am

re: #687 garhighway

I didn't know that. Thanks.

690 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:50:46am

re: #682 PAUL_MACDONALD


The paranoia has to stop.

The difference between paranoia and terror is the credibility of the threat. Considering the number of car bombs exploding successfully in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan on a daily basis, it is delusional for you to believe that terrorists in the US lack the technical ability to launch a successful attack.

691 Cato the Elder  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:53:32am

re: #682 PAUL_MACDONALD

The paranoia has to stop.

[waves hand]

"These are not the jihadis you're looking for."

692 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:53:58am

re: #682 PAUL_MACDONALD

"you sound like i used to"?

pathetically condescending.

693 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:55:59am

Another stupid, tedious 2AM flounce comment, I see.

694 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:57:49am

NYC mayor: Bias will not be tolerated

NEW YORK (AP) - Mayor Michael Bloomberg says New York City "will not tolerate any bias" following the arrest of a U.S. citizen from Pakistan in the Times Square car bombing attempt.

Bloomberg said Tuesday that also applies to potential backlash against Muslim New Yorkers.

The mayor said there are "a few bad apples" among any groups. He also cited New York's long history of accepting cultures from the around the world.

695 astronmr20  Tue, May 4, 2010 8:59:43am

re: #694 NJDhockeyfan

NYC mayor: Bias will not be tolerated

It really is sad to see our leaders falling all over themselves to not offend. "Bias will not be tolerated?"

How about this one, Bloomburg:

TERRORISM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

Give it a try.

696 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:00:36am

re: #693 Charles

we've been waving occasionally, although i may have saluted with a minority of my fingers...

697 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:03:00am

re: #695 astronmr20

It really is sad to see our leaders falling all over themselves to not offend. "Bias will not be tolerated?"

How about this one, Bloomburg:

TERRORISM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

Give it a try.

Can't do that. Somebody might get offended.
/

698 astronmr20  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:04:01am

re: #694 NJDhockeyfan

NYC mayor: Bias will not be tolerated

Furthermore, this is supremely insulting and condescending to New Yorkers. Pakistani New-Yorkers included.

699 Spare O'Lake  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:04:30am

re: #694 NJDhockeyfan

NYC mayor: Bias will not be tolerated

Denial belongs in Egypt.
Did Bloomberg not exhibit breathtakingly moronic bias when he recklessly guessed that the perp was a “Home-grown, maybe a mentally deranged person or somebody with a political agenda that doesn’t like the health care bill or something"?

700 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:04:49am

re: #695 astronmr20

It really is sad to see our leaders falling all over themselves to not offend. "Bias will not be tolerated?"

How about this one, Bloomburg:

TERRORISM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

Give it a try.

I know because why would the Mayor want to remind folks that throwing shit at Muslims or decorating local mosques with spray paint is a nono?
/

I think Bloomburg and the NYPD has already shown that Terrorism will not be tolerated.

701 jordash1212  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:05:07am

re: #2 darthstar

Two very very close calls. The fact that bomb was homemade, parked in Times Square, and was in the process of detonating shows the immensity and complexity of the urban terror problem -- no necessarily that our intelligence and security services are failing. And he was reportedly minutes away from getting taking off to Dubai.

702 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:05:16am

re: #699 Spare O'Lake

Denial belongs in Egypt.
Did Bloomberg not exhibit breathtakingly moronic bias when he recklessly guessed that the perp was a “Home-grown, maybe a mentally deranged person or somebody with a political agenda that doesn’t like the health care bill or something"?

he said that???

703 astronmr20  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:05:28am

re: #699 Spare O'Lake

Denial belongs in Egypt.
Did Bloomberg not exhibit breathtakingly moronic bias when he recklessly guessed that the perp was a “Home-grown, maybe a mentally deranged person or somebody with a political agenda that doesn’t like the health care bill or something"?


One-thousand updings.

704 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:05:52am

re: #702 Aceofwhat?

he said that???

Yes he did.

705 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:06:06am

re: #702 Aceofwhat?

he said that???

[Link: newsbusters.org...]

706 astronmr20  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:08:04am

re: #702 Aceofwhat?

he said that???

Yes.

And he can go f*** himself.

707 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:08:37am

re: #695 astronmr20

It really is sad to see our leaders falling all over themselves to not offend. "Bias will not be tolerated?"

How about this one, Bloomburg:

TERRORISM WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

Give it a try.

Does anyone have a link to Rudy's comments on 9/11?

708 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:10:37am

Hahahahaha, the Republicans in Florida have put Charlie Crist's portirat on eBay.
[Link: cgi.ebay.com...]
A twin painting is known to exist. Also produced and purchased by the Crist/Greer Administration, this second painting depicts former Republican Party of Florida Chairman James A. Greer, Charlie Crist’s close personal friend and twice hand-picked leader of the Florida GOP. The combined value of both pieces is thought to be priceless, given that together Charlie Crist and Jim Greer aided in the swift demise of the Republican Party of Florida’s public stature and financial security.

Original cost of commissioning was borne by Republican Party of Florida donors who donated their time, talents, and hard-earned money to support an untrustworthy politician and his hand-picked chairman.

Via Wonkette.


On the other hand the annoying people on MSNBC are annoying me right now.
and now we get the news that Pakistani police have arrested 5 people that the failed bomber was involved with.
And Pataki can kiss my ass.

710 Kragar  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:11:28am

re: #699 Spare O'Lake

Denial belongs in Egypt.
Did Bloomberg not exhibit breathtakingly moronic bias when he recklessly guessed that the perp was a “Home-grown, maybe a mentally deranged person or somebody with a political agenda that doesn’t like the health care bill or something"?

Bloomberg made a complete ass out of himself with that one.

711 McSpiff  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:12:13am

re: #166 windsword

All-out war has only occasionally resulted in absorbing the country. Last I checked, Germany and Japan are still independent nations. Hell, even the Nazis left the conquered nations intact, even if they were puppet governments. WW2 was an all-out war if I've ever seen one.

Look up the "General Government" if you think the Nazis left nations intact.

712 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:12:15am

re: #699 Spare O'Lake

Denial belongs in Egypt.
Did Bloomberg not exhibit breathtakingly moronic bias when he recklessly guessed that the perp was a “Home-grown, maybe a mentally deranged person or somebody with a political agenda that doesn’t like the health care bill or something"?

Yes he did.
When he said that last night on (CBS?) I looked at my husband and said "Oh I think someone just stepped in the shit".

713 Killgore Trout  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:12:37am

Ron Paul's revenge....
Deal Killer? White House Takes Aim At Fed Audit Provision


Right now Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) is trying to round up 60 or more votes to overcome a likely filibuster and include an "audit the Fed" provision in the Senate's bill. There are just a few small obstacles: the White House, major financial institutions, and the Fed itself. Their resistance is fierce--but the measure is so popular that killing it will be difficult for them and that, in their eyes, threatens to put a grenade at the center of efforts to to tighten the rules on Wall Street.
714 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:13:17am

re: #699 Spare O'Lake

Denial belongs in Egypt.
Did Bloomberg not exhibit breathtakingly moronic bias when he recklessly guessed that the perp was a “Home-grown, maybe a mentally deranged person or somebody with a political agenda that doesn’t like the health care bill or something"?

Just saw that. What a fucking jackass. These sort of opportunistic liberasl are just plain assholes.

715 astronmr20  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:13:29am

re: #709 NJDhockeyfan

Bloomberg Speculates Times Square Bomber Was Protesting Healthcare Law

What an asshat.

716 Lidane  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:13:43am

Morning, Lizards!

Looks like there's a bit of a debate on the right over the Times Square suspect and his Miranda rights.

What's really scary is that for once, Glenn Beck is actually making sense. That's a truly terrifying thought.

717 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:14:31am

re: #714 cliffster

Just saw that. What a fucking jackass. These sort of opportunistic liberasl are just plain assholes.

I thought Bloomberg was some kind of conservative independent?

718 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:15:07am

By the way, that crackhead who posted as "John_in_AZ" had 5 or 6 other accounts registered here.

719 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:15:08am

re: #716 Lidane

Morning, Lizards!

Looks like there's a bit of a debate on the right over the Times Square suspect and his Miranda rights.

What's really scary is that for once, Glenn Beck is actually making sense. That's a truly terrifying thought.

Even a broken clock....

720 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:15:37am

re: #717 webevintage

I thought Bloomberg was some kind of conservative independent?

I don't really follow NY politics. I think you're right, apologies for the bad examples. But that sort of thing does indeed spew from the mouths of a subset of jackass liberals.

721 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:15:49am

re: #716 Lidane

Morning, Lizards!

Looks like there's a bit of a debate on the right over the Times Square suspect and his Miranda rights.

What's really scary is that for once, Glenn Beck is actually making sense. That's a truly terrifying thought.

What is the DEAL with John McCain? Has he just lost all control of his moral compass...say anything as long as it sounds like it will help him win the election?

722 Lidane  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:15:59am

Another link on the Miranda debate:

[Link: www.politico.com...]

723 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:16:00am

re: #717 webevintage

I thought Bloomberg was some kind of conservative independent?

I can tell you I look like George Clooney but that doesn't make it true.:)

724 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:16:06am

re: #721 webevintage

What is the DEAL with John McCain? Has he just lost all control of his moral compass...say anything as long as it sounds like it will help him win the election?

Country First.

725 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:16:42am

re: #715 astronmr20

What an asshat.

Here's another one.

Democrat Rep. Nadler Speculates "Right-Wing" Behind NY Car Bomb Attempt

726 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:17:41am

re: #688 lawhawk


We can put Somalia and Chechnya aside for now, as I think your impressions of both countries seems to be based on hearsay and not so much in historical reality. That's my opinion, anyway.

The only reason 9-11 is the Zenith is because it's the only one that still has any kind of physical remnant. The tubes in London were working quickly, the trains in Spain were chuffing along. The Indonesian nightclubs still have tourists. In NYC, there are two gaping holes that no one seems to want to do anything about.

I don't know why the USA thinks that they are suddenly special because a terrorist attack happened. The UK survived the IRA. Israel survives the PLO. Hell, Iraq gets by with all manner of marketplace car bombs. NYC, much less all the USA, can weather this nonsense.

The paranoia about "other stuff in the pipeline" is simply (unintentional on your part) fearmongering writ large. What is this nebulous other stuff and how can it be carried out by an army that barely knows how to tie its shoes? What should we be vigilant for? Container ships full of nuclear waste blowing up a port? How do we, the common citizen, do that?

Many good leads come from the the folks who attend the Mosques to the point where it seems the potential terrorists have to go back overseas for training.

Part of my cynicism about this stems from me being a child of the 80's and hence, the Cold War. Bunch of stupidity regarding the Commies coming to nuke us when they were barely able to feed their own population. The only one who got that was Reagan. Another similarly clear headed person is needed now to reshape the debate.

727 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:17:45am

re: #718 Charles

By the way, that crackhead who posted as "John_in_AZ" had 5 or 6 other accounts registered here.

mmmm..I can only surmise what swamp he lives in

728 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:17:46am

re: #717 webevintage

I thought Bloomberg was some kind of conservative independent?

He's as much a conservative as Schwarzenegger is.

729 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:18:00am

re: #725 NJDhockeyfan

Here's another one.

Democrat Rep. Nadler Speculates "Right-Wing" Behind NY Car Bomb Attempt

Uh ... he said "whether it was an Islamic group or a right wing group, it doesn't matter."

But don't let me get in the way of the outrage.

730 wrenchwench  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:18:23am

re: #217 petercow

Welcome, hatchling.

731 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:19:00am

re: #717 webevintage

I thought Bloomberg was some kind of conservative independent?

He's tough to characterize. He's a social liberal (you have to be if you want to be elected Mayor of NYC) but a fiscal conservative.

Because his campaigns are entirely self-funded he owes no interest group anything, so he can do what he thinks best.

732 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:19:20am

re: #720 cliffster

I don't really follow NY politics. I think you're right, apologies for the bad examples. But that sort of thing does indeed spew from the mouths of a subset of jackass liberals.

And a whole bunch of bad ass craziness/racisim/ignorance spews forth the mouths of a subset of jackass conservatives. Would you be happy if anything of that sort was pinned on conservatives regardless of the affiliation of the person who said it?

733 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:19:23am

re: #718 Charles

this is my reaction to that development//

734 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:19:36am

re: #729 Charles

Uh ... he said "whether it was an Islamic group or a right wing group, it doesn't matter."

But don't let me get in the way of the outrage.

It's the way he slid it in there that is irritating. What if he'd said, "whether it was an Islamic group or some angry illegal immigrant, doesn't matter"?

735 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:20:02am

re: #716 Lidane

Morning, Lizards!

Looks like there's a bit of a debate on the right over the Times Square suspect and his Miranda rights.

What's really scary is that for once, Glenn Beck is actually making sense. That's a truly terrifying thought.

does that mean we should drink more or drink less?

736 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:20:24am

re: #735 Aceofwhat?

does that mean we should drink more or drink less?

More.

Always.

737 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:20:46am

re: #735 Aceofwhat?

does that mean we should drink more or drink less?

I think you know where I stand.

738 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:21:11am

re: #728 NJDhockeyfan

He's as much a conservative as Schwarzenegger is.

Arnold is not a real Republican?

739 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:21:19am

re: #735 Aceofwhat?

does that mean we should drink more or drink less?

You rarely find answers at the bottom of a bottle, but it never hurts to look.

740 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:21:34am

re: #692 Aceofwhat?

"you sound like i used to"?

pathetically condescending.

You know, you can copy and paste that stuff so it doesn't look like I don't know when to capitalize "I".

741 Lidane  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:21:37am

re: #735 Aceofwhat?

does that mean we should drink more or drink less?

I'd drink more, but with me adjusting to new meds, I can't. You'll just have to drink more on my behalf. ;)

742 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:22:05am

re: #735 Aceofwhat?

does that mean we should drink more or drink less?

uh, what kind of silly question is that? *hic*

743 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:22:47am

re: #740 PAUL_MACDONALD

You know, you can copy and paste that stuff so it doesn't look like I don't know when to capitalize "I".

i take full responsibility for my laziness. at the same time, that would have been the least of your errors.

744 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:23:09am

re: #736 garhighway

More.

Always.

cool. just didn't want to be alone there...

745 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:23:23am

re: #735 Aceofwhat?

does that mean we should drink more or drink less?

More since it is obviously one of the signs of the Apocalypse.

746 Charles Johnson  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:23:32am

re: #734 cliffster

It's the way he slid it in there that is irritating. What if he'd said, "whether it was an Islamic group or some angry illegal immigrant, doesn't matter"?

That headline is clearly slanted to get exactly this kind of faux outrage going. In fact, that kind of headline borders on being a lie, because it totally misrepresents the intent of Nadler's statement.

747 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:23:38am

re: #732 Kruk

And a whole bunch of bad ass craziness/racisim/ignorance spews forth the mouths of a subset of jackass conservatives. Would you be happy if anything of that sort was pinned on conservatives regardless of the affiliation of the person who said it?

And I immediately apologized. Would you like to send me a list of addresses of people to whom I should send a formal, written apology?

748 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:23:55am

re: #341 Cato the Elder

Interesting. A late-night visit from the Borgmocrazy itself. With not one, but two links so we can go there ourselves. An invitation, you might say.

It seems they're getting desperate for some love from Charles and the Lizards over there, since pretty much everyone here ignores their existence now.

This one went from "hi, I'm new here" to full-wingnut mental meltdown in 17 posts tonight. And we can't even eat it, because it's a Rodent meat-puppet infected with Mad Speranza Disease.

To make it all more than a bit funny, it thinks "teabagging" is only for gay people and using the term makes one a "liberal homophobe". Got news for you, "John": Republican den-mothers do it to their husbands and boyfriends all the time, because they like it. Why, I bet some of your gal friends at the Swamp are into it big-time.

Epic fail.

I am intrigued that a simple variation on oral sex seems to upset people so.

749 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:24:25am

re: #746 Charles

That headline is clearly slanted to get exactly this kind of faux outrage going. In fact, that kind of headline borders on being a lie, because it totally misrepresents the intent of Nadler's statement.

Possibly so. Much like most thinkprogress.com headlines.

750 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:25:04am

re: #745 webevintage

More since it is obviously one of the signs of the Apocalypse.

dang, you're right...another seal is popped;)

751 vinnievin  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:25:15am

re: #702 Aceofwhat?

he said that???

He absolutely did - to Katie Couric. Bias will not be tolerated, unless ...

752 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:25:31am

re: #350 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I find it odd that the inept bomber tried to go back to the ME. Has he no shame? Isn't he embarrassed?

You gotta admit, showing up in your hometown while another entire enemy country is pointing at you and laughing, can not be much fun.

I can only imagine that he has superiors to report to.

Either that, or he needed his mom's home cooking to help him get over the trauma.

753 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:25:40am

re: #748 SanFranciscoZionist

I am intrigued that a simple variation on oral sex seems to upset people so.

especially when they coined the phrase for us...

754 garhighway  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:25:41am

re: #749 cliffster

Possibly so. Much like most thinkprogress.com headlines.

That explains it.

755 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:26:26am

re: #749 cliffster

Possibly so. Much like most thinkprogress.com headlines.

Or all over the internet.

756 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:27:03am

re: #755 webevintage

Or all over the internet.

word. Like I've been saying, Politics 2.0 is a frightening thing.

757 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:27:36am

re: #743 Aceofwhat?

i take full responsibility for my laziness. at the same time, that would have been the least of your errors.

Not getting into this with you. If there was an ignore option, you would be first on my list.

758 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:28:20am

re: #747 cliffster

And I immediately apologized. Would you like to send me a list of addresses of people to whom I should send a formal, written apology?

Your apology was followed by the sloppy generalisation I replied to.

"I don't really follow NY politics. I think you're right, apologies for the bad examples. But that sort of thing does indeed spew from the mouths of a subset of jackass liberals." My italics.

759 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:29:26am

re: #726 PAUL_MACDONALD

Whoa nelly about all the suppositions on your part about my knowledge and understanding of Somalia, Chechnya or even NYC and Ground Zero. 9/11 destroyed more than 10 million sf of office space, major subway lines, PATH, communications hubs, radio/tv transmission lines, in addition to murdering nearly 3,000 people.

That it is still being rebuilt all these years later has as much to do with the politics of rebuilding the site as anything else - because the building was govt owned, but leased to a private entity; the complexity of rebuilding at that particular site with operating subway/PATH, and what to actually rebuild there.

The damaged portion of the Pentagon was rebuilt within a year and a memorial. None of the others you mention were damaged nearly as extensively as the collapse of the WTC and damage to surrounding facilities and infrastructure.

AQ's lust to carry out more attacks against the US hasn't been satiated by 9/11 - and as long as we're taking the fight to AQ leadership, their minions, and all others, their capabilities are reduced. We just can't hold the line by fighting AQ with law enforcement tactics alone.

760 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:29:43am

re: #749 cliffster

Possibly so. Much like most thinkprogress.com headlines.

I like thinkprogress, but yeah their headlines suck sometimes.
This is the top one right now:
Conservatives Want To Deny U.S. Citizen Faisal Shahzad Miranda Rights, Ensuring He Won’t Be Convicted

Of course it should say "SOME nutty Conservatives" since the conservatives who have said that are John McCain and Steve King.

761 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:30:27am

re: #757 PAUL_MACDONALD

Not getting into this with you. If there was an ignore option, you would be first on my list.

high praise, indeed.

762 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:30:36am

re: #757 PAUL_MACDONALD

Not getting into this with you. If there was an ignore option, you would be first on my list.

You are allowed to pass by his posts and not read them all together.

763 CarleeCork  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:31:12am

re: #735 Aceofwhat?

does that mean we should drink more or drink less?


I vote more....and earlier.

764 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:32:12am

re: #700 webevintage

I know because why would the Mayor want to remind folks that throwing shit at Muslims or decorating local mosques with spray paint is a nono?
/

I think Bloomburg and the NYPD has already shown that Terrorism will not be tolerated.

Unfortunately, there's a precedent for that sort of thing:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Saying that people who belong to the same ethnic group (or as in Mr Singh's case, look like they belong to the same group) as the perp shouldn't be targetted isn't political correctness, it's simple human decency. Emotions can run high, and leaders have a responsibility to tamp them down.

765 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:32:52am

re: #760 webevintage

I like thinkprogress, but yeah their headlines suck sometimes.
This is the top one right now:
Conservatives Want To Deny U.S. Citizen Faisal Shahzad Miranda Rights, Ensuring He Won’t Be Convicted

Of course it should say "SOME nutty Conservatives" since the conservatives who have said that are John McCain and Steve King.

Yeah, that was almost... this close to... admitting that a lot of thinkprogress's material is over-the-top hyper-partisan. I give you points for trying ;)

766 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:34:39am

I'm sorry, but did I fail to mention how much I despise Rep. Steve King?

"Rep. Peter King (N.Y.), the top Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee, wants to know whether the Justice Department consulted with the intelligence community.

“I hope that [Attorney General Eric] Holder did discuss this with the intelligence community. If they believe they got enough from him, how much more should they get? Did they Mirandize him? I know he’s an American citizen but still,” King told POLITICO."

That is some dangerously stupid talk from King.

767 Lidane  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:35:18am

re: #760 webevintage

I like thinkprogress, but yeah their headlines suck sometimes.

True. Some of them are more than a bit shrill.

Still, they source their articles in the text, so you can follow the thought process even if the headline is dumb. That works for me.

768 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:35:44am

re: #725 NJDhockeyfan

Here's another one.

Democrat Rep. Nadler Speculates "Right-Wing" Behind NY Car Bomb Attempt

I thought it could be a right-winger, also. A propane tank set to go off on May Day, kind of led me in that direction. Chances are Shahzad doesn't even really know what May Day is. Timing was just a coincidence. But you can't rule stuff out without evidence to the contrary.

769 bratwurst  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:36:03am

re: #491 pingjockey

That wasn't it. But still a good reminder to stay off the field. I think it was a colts linebacker from back in the late 70s or early 80s.

Mike Curtis in 1971.

Youtube Video
770 Lidane  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:36:29am

re: #766 webevintage

That is some dangerously stupid talk from King.

So it's par for the course from him, then?

771 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:36:39am

re: #763 CarleeCork

I vote more...and earlier.

in that case...cheers!

772 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:36:41am

re: #767 Lidane

True. Some of them are more than a bit shrill.

Shrill, that's the proper word for it.
Huffpo too.
Horrible headline that at times have nothing to do with the story.

773 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:38:04am

How close was Faisal Shahzad from getting away?

This close.

The Connecticut man busted in the Times Square bomb plot was just minutes from a clean getaway when he was arrested aboard a Dubai-bound flight at JFK Airport, sources said Tuesday.

The scramble to arrest Faisal Shahzad began after his personal car was traced Monday night to a short-term parking lot at the Queens airport, sources told the Daily News.

Once the 1994 white Isuzu Trooper was discovered, authorities began scouring airline databases - and Shahzad's name popped up on a passenger list, the sources said.

He was busted aboard Emirates Flight 202 around 11:45 p.m. The sources said Shahzad, 30, of Bridgeport, Conn., left a loaded 9mm handgun with five full clips inside his car before heading for his flight.

Shahdad's name was supposed to have been added to the no-fly list earlier on Monday. It was unclear why it never make it on.

"Clearly the guy was on the plane and shouldn't have been, and we got very lucky," Mayor Bloomberg told a midtown news conference Tuesday morning.

774 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:38:15am

re: #766 webevintage

Agreed. If even one police officer took this kind of bullshit literally, a solid terrorist case could end up being thrown out of court.

775 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:38:22am

hmmm, 2007 pickup truck on eBay for $3,700. Paypal not accepted. What could go wrong?

776 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:39:21am

re: #766 webevintage

I'm sorry, but did I fail to mention how much I despise Rep. Steve King?

"Rep. Peter King (N.Y.), the top Republican on the House Homeland Security Committee, wants to know whether the Justice Department consulted with the intelligence community.

“I hope that [Attorney General Eric] Holder did discuss this with the intelligence community. If they believe they got enough from him, how much more should they get? Did they Mirandize him? I know he’s an American citizen but still,” King told POLITICO."

That is some dangerously stupid talk from King.

You'll find me on here occasionally wishing that foreign terrorist A or B was, as per the supreme court's prior rulings, not granted all the rights of a US citizen while in our custody.

But not giving the rights of a citizen to a citizen? That's as dumb as saying the earth is only 6,000 years...wait, what;)

777 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:39:21am

re: #768 Liberal Classic

I thought it could be a right-winger, also. A propane tank set to go off on May Day, kind of led me in that direction. Chances are Shahzad doesn't even really know what May Day is. Timing was just a coincidence. But you can't rule stuff out without evidence to the contrary.

I can understand that, what with all the car bombs going off set by right-wingers and all. Simple mistake, coulda happen to anyone.

778 McSpiff  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:40:00am

re: #759 lawhawk

Disagree. We can fight AQ using law enforcement. If the FBI/CIA/NSA/DOD are too constrained by the existing law to do the job properly, then the law needs to change. If new law is constrained by the constitution, then the constitution needs to change. If Americans are serious that they no longer want to have Miranda rights in certain circumstances as an example, thats fine but it needs to be codified.

If 9/11 really did change everything, then I see nothing wrong with updating the constitution to reflect this new reality. But its disingenuous to say that being constrained by the rule of law makes fighting terrorism impossible. I'd much rather ensure that everyone is on the same page, know who has what rights, etc.

779 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:40:32am

re: #774 Kruk

Agreed. If even one police officer took this kind of bullshit literally, a solid terrorist case could end up being thrown out of court.


Well, in King's defense I have a feeling he thinks "24" is the true life story of a agent named Jack Bauer....

780 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:40:35am

re: #777 NJDhockeyfan

I can understand that, what with all the car bombs going off set by right-wingers and all. Simple mistake, coulda happen to anyone.

All those broken windows and vandalism by right-wingers protesting the Arizona bill?

781 Olsonist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:41:26am

re: #777 NJDhockeyfan

Perhaps you remember Oklahoma City truck bombing? Timothy McVeigh? Does the Michigan Militia ring a bell?

782 McSpiff  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:42:27am

re: #777 NJDhockeyfan

In all seriousness, who sets off the most car bombs in America? I know in Canada that particular award is probably still held by the Biker gangs due to their Quebec turf war about 10 years ago. Are groups like MS-13 involved in car bombings?

783 Political Atheist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:42:29am

re: #768 Liberal Classic
I have no outrage over Nadler. I firmly believe speculation hurts the news quality and even sometimes the investigation.

I am not understanding why a crazed right winger would be thought to be going after a target all about ordinary America, and not a government building. Propane is well known by it's sheer commonality, often associated with Iraqi IED's. . McVeigh used fertilizer & oil.

Where is the right wing connection at all?

784 Lidane  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:42:35am

re: #777 NJDhockeyfan

I can understand that, what with all the car bombs going off set by right-wingers and all. Simple mistake, coulda happen to anyone.

Yep. Because there's never been a right-wing car bomber. Ever.

Until there was a suspect in custody, there was no telling who was responsible and people were throwing out all sorts of ideas. It's not unreasonable to suspect people across all sides of the political spectrum.

785 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:43:00am

re: #781 Olsonist

Perhaps you remember Oklahoma City truck bombing? Timothy McVeigh? Does the Michigan Militia ring a bell?

Did the Militia guys get bail? Thought I heard that. No snark, just asking.

786 darthstar  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:43:06am

re: #704 NJDhockeyfan

Yes he did.

Bloomberg also used the 'they hate our freedom' line...that made me shudder at its stupidity.

787 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:43:32am

re: #777 NJDhockeyfan

I can understand that, what with all the car bombs going off set by right-wingers and all. Simple mistake, coulda happen to anyone.

Hey, McVeigh and Nichols are about as red-blooded as they come. When I read that there was fertilizer and propane bomb on May Day, a redneck bomber became a possibility in my mind. It's not something you can dismiss out of hand, until further evidence comes along.

788 darthstar  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:43:37am

re: #785 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did the Militia guys get bail? Thought I heard that. No snark, just asking.

Bail denied.

789 Political Atheist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:43:53am

re: #784 Lidane

A truck, not a car, fertilizer not propane, and a government target, not a tourist one. Speculations are not helpful.

790 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:43:54am

re: #777 NJDhockeyfan

I can understand that, what with all the car bombs going off set by right-wingers and all. Simple mistake, coulda happen to anyone.

I know, because that bomb in Oklahoma city was done by...oh, wait.....
/

Come on guys can we stop pretending that the only violence (or threat of violence) committed in this country comes from foreigners or some brand of liberal?

791 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:43:55am

re: #778 McSpiff

Law enforcement for domestic protection and using military action to go after terrorists overseas don't require amending the US constitution. I think you're assuming that I think that the terrorists need to be treated differently. I think I've made it clear that terrorists captured overseas who aren't US citizens should be tried in tribunals; US citizens captured overseas or terrorists captured on US soil should get federal court trials. None of that requires amending the US constitution - just a dose of common sense from the Administration that wants to make a muddled mess of tribunals and court proceedings with the KSM trial and closing Gitmo for no other reason than to fulfill a campaign promise to satisfy those on the Left even though there's no alternative.

792 A Man for all Seasons  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:44:19am

Lawdy..The pictures of the flooding in Nashville are horrible today...Many lives and homes have been destroyed...
Napa went through a flood like that once in 1986..They called it the 100 year flood.. It was bad...The silt in the river destroyed everybody's car...People don't realize or report that from floods...Your house is destroyed and you can no longer drive your car..
Now to prevent it ever happening again Napa had to build protection and flood control.. In order to do that we had to move the RR tracks for the Wine train..So Napa got 54 million dollars from stimulus money to do just that..
And the GOP has been howling about it ever since like the money was spent on wine snobs just to fire up the base...They really piss me off any more.

793 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:44:26am

re: #786 darthstar

Bloomberg also used the 'they hate our freedom' line...that made me shudder at its stupidity.

throw out the bill of rights, and everything would be peachy/

794 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:44:29am

re: #788 darthstar

Bail denied.

Thanks. I also thanked you yesterday, but you had already bailed.

795 Lidane  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:45:14am

re: #789 Rightwingconspirator

A truck, not a car, fertilizer not propane, and a government target, not a tourist one.

A vehicle parked in a public place with explosives in it, with the motive of hurting as many people as possible. In the end, they're both the same.

796 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:45:52am

re: #790 webevintage

I know, because that bomb in Oklahoma city was done by...oh, wait...
/

Come on guys can we stop pretending that the only violence (or threat of violence) committed in this country comes from foreigners or some brand of liberal?

No doubt the OC bombing was done by right winger McVeigh and friends but to think of them first after reading about daily car bombings in the news?

797 astronmr20  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:45:54am

re: #768 Liberal Classic

I thought it could be a right-winger, also. A propane tank set to go off on May Day, kind of led me in that direction.


Except the only people doing fire-bombings, property destruction, and overall harm on may-day are *leftists.*

798 Olsonist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:45:57am

re: #785 Cannadian Club Akbar

Did the Militia guys get bail? Thought I heard that. No snark, just asking.

Fortier got paroled in 2006. McVeigh got executed and Nichols is in prison for the rest of his life.

799 darthstar  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:45:59am

OT: (But humorous) I was listening to the highlights of President Obama's "Jay Leno is a pathetic comedian by comparison" remarks the other night, and I just loved his take-down of Senator McCain. "Senator McCain couldn't be here tonight. Apparently, he never identified himself as a 'maverick', and we all know what happens to you in Arizona when you don't have identification."

Priceless.

800 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:46:11am

re: #783 Rightwingconspirator

Where is the right wing connection at all?

Maybe the timing.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

I really didn't hear that much speculation from authorities. I'm just some guy on the internet, you know.

801 McSpiff  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:46:18am

re: #791 lawhawk

I did misread you, apologies. Looks like we agree 100%. I don't think the law should be changed either, I'd just rather see it changed than ignored.

802 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:46:27am

re: #788 darthstar

Not exactly. Bond was delayed while prosecutors appeal the decision.

A federal judge late Monday granted prosecutors a stay until Wednesday in her order granting bond to nine accused members of a radical militia.

U.S. District Judge Victoria A. Roberts said she would delay the release of the nine Hutaree defendants despite a government motion she described as "woefully inadequate."

Roberts said she wants the government to tell her by 5 p.m. Wednesday whether the solicitor general has approved an appeal of her bond order and give other details such as how the government would be harmed if the defendants are released.

Roberts expressed doubts about the government's sedition case against the Hutaree members Monday when she initially ordered all nine defendants released from jail.

803 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:46:52am

re: #782 McSpiff

In all seriousness, who sets off the most car bombs in America? I know in Canada that particular award is probably still held by the Biker gangs due to their Quebec turf war about 10 years ago. Are groups like MS-13 involved in car bombings?

I do recall a car bomb set off in the garage of one of the WTC towers by jihadists.

804 Political Atheist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:47:01am

re: #795 Lidane

But now we know better. Now we know how utterly incorrect the right wing speculations anyone had were. Frankly I feel much better about another battle in the GWOT, rather than some domestic terror attack.

805 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:47:15am

re: #798 Olsonist

Fortier got paroled in 2006. McVeigh got executed and Nichols is in prison for the rest of his life.

I meant the Michigan goofs. But question was answered.:)

806 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:47:23am

re: #789 Rightwingconspirator

A truck, not a car, fertilizer not propane, and a government target, not a tourist one. Speculations are not helpful.

unless i miss my mark, Lidane is saying that suspecting everyone = lack of speculation until further evidence arrives.

i agree with that sentiment. this could have been anyone, and Bloomberg should have kept his piehole shut until further evidence arrived.

Lidane - if i mangled your point, i'll buy you a round and then drink it for you...wouldn't want to derail the new meds;)

807 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:47:31am

re: #759 lawhawk

Whoa nelly about all the suppositions on your part about my knowledge and understanding of Somalia, Chechnya or even NYC and Ground Zero. 9/11 destroyed more than 10 million sf of office space, major subway lines, PATH, communications hubs, radio/tv transmission lines, in addition to murdering nearly 3,000 people.

Yet, somehow, everything else is up and running whole no progress has been made on putting anything up on what is some of the most valuable Real Estate on the planet. Pearl Harbor wasn't walled off because the Arizona is a gravesite. It's still a functioning Naval base.

That it is still being rebuilt all these years later has as much to do with the politics of rebuilding the site as anything else - because the building was govt owned, but leased to a private entity; the complexity of rebuilding at that particular site with operating subway/PATH, and what to actually rebuild there.

And yet, it's going to be over a decade since the debris was cleared before anything starts to happen. That's how they win, you know. Their whole shtick is mental. You walk by and you see a tragedy instead of rebirth. Fuels the paranoia.

The damaged portion of the Pentagon was rebuilt within a year and a memorial. None of the others you mention were damaged nearly as extensively as the collapse of the WTC and damage to surrounding facilities and infrastructure.

Doesn't matter. They built the original World Trade complex in record time and can do so again if they put their mind to it. If you are saying the surrounding infrastructure is still badly damaged then I put it to you that those in charge of development of the site are incompetent. Can't turn soil yet?

AQ's lust to carry out more attacks against the US hasn't been satiated by 9/11 - and as long as we're taking the fight to AQ leadership, their minions, and all others, their capabilities are reduced. We just can't hold the line by fighting AQ with law enforcement tactics alone.

No, you can't hold the line with law enforcement. The problem is that the USA does not have the stomach to do what must be done. Insurgencies do not function without the aid of an actual financial backer. In this case, it's Iran and Pakistan. What you have to ask yourself is this: is the extension of the war to two other countries worth the inevitable price? My answer to that is "no".

My lust to bed multiple supermodels at once will never be satiated. I wonder why it is that I am constantly unsuccessful in my supermodel bedding attempts? Perhaps it's because I don't have the money, time or location to bed these supermodels. Sure want to, though. Desire to do something does not make it real. Not to Godwin the thread, but the Phantom Armies of Hitler didn't save Berlin from the Red Army.

808 darthstar  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:47:52am

re: #794 Cannadian Club Akbar

Thanks. I also thanked you yesterday, but you had already bailed.

I saw that...it was my pleasure...being able to link shadowbox images to text makes it more fun to post as you can say just about anything, whether or not it matches the image.

Here, have a flower.

809 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:48:09am

re: #398 Cannadian Club Akbar

I am sure Bloomberg, CNN, LSDNBC and all the others were hoping it was a TPer.

Why would Bloomberg hope for that?

810 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:48:27am

re: #799 darthstar

you forgot the best part...he ended with "adios, amigo!"

lmfao...

811 lostlakehiker  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:48:33am

re: #778 McSpiff

Disagree. We can fight AQ using law enforcement. If the FBI/CIA/NSA/DOD are too constrained by the existing law to do the job properly, then the law needs to change. If new law is constrained by the constitution, then the constitution needs to change. If Americans are serious that they no longer want to have Miranda rights in certain circumstances as an example, thats fine but it needs to be codified.

If 9/11 really did change everything, then I see nothing wrong with updating the constitution to reflect this new reality. But its disingenuous to say that being constrained by the rule of law makes fighting terrorism impossible. I'd much rather ensure that everyone is on the same page, know who has what rights, etc.

While we're on the topic of this fellow being an American citizen, isn't lighting off a bomb as part of Al Q's war on America, like, treason?

812 King of the Douche, now you may bow  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:48:58am

re: #808 darthstar

I knew not to click. But I did. Heh.

813 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:49:04am

re: #807 PAUL_MACDONALD

dude, you really like bold don't you?

814 McSpiff  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:49:12am

re: #803 NJDhockeyfan

Good point, and I agree. Same with OC. I'm just wondering how often something like that happens during gangland wars as opposed to terrorism.

815 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:49:15am

Something I was wondering: Any word on whether this Pakistani is the white male we were talking about yesterday? Some Pakistanis are fair skinned enough to pass for southern Europeans.

816 Political Atheist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:49:16am

re: #797 astronmr20
re: #806 Aceofwhat?

The less partisan left vs right in this conversation the better. Especially now.

817 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:49:55am

re: #808 darthstar

I saw that...it was my pleasure...being able to link shadowbox images to text makes it more fun to post as you can say just about anything, whether or not it matches the image.

Here, have a flower.

dude, i told you that picture was private/

818 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:50:23am

re: #813 cliffster

dude, you really like bold don't you?

the blockquote is not strong in this one...

819 webevintage  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:50:46am

re: #796 NJDhockeyfan

No doubt the OC bombing was done by right winger McVeigh and friends but to think of them first after reading about daily car bombings in the news?

I'll admit the first thing that came to my mind was some right-wing Militia type guys from the woods when the news of the failed car bomb first broke.
Car/truck bombs in this country just make me think of the OKC bombing.

820 cliffster  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:50:49am

re: #808 darthstar

I saw that...it was my pleasure...being able to link shadowbox images to text makes it more fun to post as you can say just about anything, whether or not it matches the image.

Here, have a flower.

Damn you, darthstar

821 Lidane  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:50:55am

re: #806 Aceofwhat?

unless i miss my mark, Lidane is saying that suspecting everyone = lack of speculation until further evidence arrives.

i agree with that sentiment. this could have been anyone, and Bloomberg should have kept his piehole shut until further evidence arrived.

Lidane - if i mangled your point, i'll buy you a round and then drink it for you...wouldn't want to derail the new meds;)

No, you got my point. I'm the one who mangled it. Heh.

And yes, Bloomberg should have shut his pie hole until someone was in custody. Everyone in politics should be subject to the 24 hour rule.

822 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:51:13am

re: #782 McSpiff

There are a couple thousand bomb incidents in the US every year. Many are related to arson/business. Here's an older FBI document on bombings in the US during the 1990s (see page 7 for breakdown).

823 Liberal Classic  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:51:14am

re: #811 lostlakehiker

While we're on the topic of this fellow being an American citizen, isn't lighting off a bomb as part of Al Q's war on America, like, treason?

Symbolically, I can't think of a stronger renunciation of citizenship than leaving your house, setting off a bomb in Times Square, and hopping the first flight to the UAE. However, it's important that due process is followed. That's what makes us what we are. Rule of law.

824 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:51:38am

re: #414 Cato the Elder

Hmm. 115 friends, all but one or two with Muslim names.

You can bet every single one of them is getting a knock on the door sometime today.

Those of them who friended him when he asked because they vaguely thought he might have been the guy who went to school with their brother-in-law are going to be annoyed.

Something else to think of when you get these random friend requests.

825 McSpiff  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:51:47am

re: #811 lostlakehiker

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

I'd say setting off a car bomb counts.

826 astronmr20  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:52:04am

re: #816 Rightwingconspirator

re: #806 Aceofwhat?

The less partisan left vs right in this conversation the better. Especially now.

I agree.

But I had to speak up with "may day" somehow tying in a possibility of Right-wing violence. It's sort of 100% left-wing violence on may day. LOTS of it. Police were set on fire in Europe this time around.

827 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:52:40am

re: #810 Aceofwhat?

you forgot the best part...he ended with "adios, amigo!"

lmfao...

Heh. I rather liked the bit with the Jonas Brothers. Without advocating violence, my reaction to them has often been similar to Obama's....

828 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:53:55am

re: #440 Jadespring

I have a question. When someone is killed in Iraq or Afghanistan does it commonly get talked about on regular newscasts down there? I just watched a report about the latest Canadian soldier who was killed and was wondering if it happens because I haven't seen it myself at least not on national type newscasts that I do occasionally watch. Does it happen at a more local level?

They usually do a news report or put something in the paper if the person was local. Around here, anyway.

829 McSpiff  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:54:03am

re: #822 lawhawk

There are a couple thousand bomb incidents in the US every year. Many are related to arson/business. Here's an older FBI document on bombings in the US during the 1990s (see page 7 for breakdown).

Exactly what I was wondering, thanks.

830 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:54:10am

Why is the media using the "caught him in the nick o' time" meme? We do have have the ability to divert flights and arrest people on the ground. Even an Emirates is going to tell us to buzz off for a suspected terrorist. Just seems this wasn't nearly as close a call as CNN wants me to believe.

831 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:54:28am

re: #823 Liberal Classic

Symbolically, I can't think of a stronger renunciation of citizenship than leaving your house, setting off a bomb in Times Square, and hopping the first flight to the UAE. However, it's important that due process is followed. That's what makes us what we are. Rule of law.

agree completely. i am for treating foreign nationals differently because they aren't citizens and citizenship ought to grant me/us something special...but dude is a citizen and ought to be treated as such.

832 lawhawk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:55:50am

re: #807 PAUL_MACDONALD

You apparently didn't bother to read the link or any of my coverage on Ground Zero. Maybe this will change your mind - the memorial is going to be ready by next year. 7WTC was completed in 2005. The Freedom Tower is 26 stories tall, and 4WTC is above ground level. Other parts of the site are awaiting construction for want of funds (which was the holdup for much of the construction as lawsuits had to be sorted out among the various parties involved).

Maybe this might inform you better? It's almost like you're stuck in a time warp thinking that nothing has been built. And you're trying to argue this with someone who has been extremely critical of the Port Authority's handling of the rebuilding because it wasn't being done fast enough. It still isn't, but to deny that there's any work going on just isn't paying attention.

833 Aceofwhat?  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:56:02am

re: #827 Kruk

Heh. I rather liked the bit with the Jonas Brothers. Without advocating violence, my reaction to them has often been similar to Obama's...

yeah, if i were president (btw, that would be another sign of the apocalypse), i'd be choking back that joke almost every day. i'll bet he's been waiting all year to get something like that out of his system. good for him-

834 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:56:28am

re: #822 lawhawk

There are a couple thousand bomb incidents in the US every year. Many are related to arson/business. Here's an older FBI document on bombings in the US during the 1990s (see page 7 for breakdown).

Yikes. You can count the number of incidents here in New Zealand on one hand, and still have fingers to spare.

835 McSpiff  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:57:44am

re: #834 Kruk

And half of them are due to the French!

//

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

836 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:58:55am

re: #824 SanFranciscoZionist Something else to think of when you get these random friend requests.

*Gulp* I'd say that 90% of the people on my friends list are from my Mafia Wars mafia/Vampire Wars clan. I don't know the first thing about them.

837 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:59:20am

Pakistan detains man over links to suspect in Times Square bomb attempt

KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan intelligence officials say at least one man has been detained in the southern city of Karachi in connection with the Times Square bombing attempt.

The official said Tuesday the man was named Tauseef and was a friend of Faisal Shahzad, the American of Pakistani descent who is in custody in the United States over the failed attack.

He did not say when the man was picked up.

Another official said several people had been taken into custody since the failed attack Saturday.

Both spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitive nature of their work.

838 Lidane  Tue, May 4, 2010 9:59:20am

re: #830 JasonA

Why is the media using the "caught him in the nick o' time" meme?

Because they have 24 hours of airtime to fill and they need a hook to keep the news junkies watching.

839 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:02:00am

re: #581 Cato the Elder

I do wish people wouldn't bring animals into this. Animals are better than people in such instances. Far better.

When a gang rape happened last fall at the school next to mine, a local pastor wrote a very good article about it. He added at the end that he was disgusted by people saying that these young men acted like anmals. His dog, Zeus, would never behave in any such way.

840 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:02:15am

re: #835 McSpiff

And half of them are due to the French!

//

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

As far as I know, the poor guy who died on the Rainbow Warrior is still the death due to terrorism in New Zealand. It's things like that make me appreciate life in a 'boring' country.

841 Kruk  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:02:42am

re: #840 Kruk

Only death, rather. PIMF.

842 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:03:52am

re: #839 SanFranciscoZionist

But he did name his dog after an unapologetic serial rapist. ;)

843 Buck  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:04:09am

re: #807 PAUL_MACDONALD

Just to try and stay on topic. You are, in my opinion, mistaking the reason why there has not been huge successful attacks inside the USA since 911.

You seem to think it is because AQ is not interested, or that they are not good enough.

I think it is because of raised awareness. Both within the community at large (helping get more intelligence) and within the law enforcement community.

There have been multiple reports of attacks that were caught early. It is because of that, it seems some will rush to attack, and not be properly prepared. A plot like this should take a year to plan and execute, but every day is a risk. So they don't have time to practice, and plan.

Imagine a store owner who has spent an enormous amount of money on cameras and security guards to stop shoplifting. After awhile he begins to think he has wasted his money.... only the stupid amateurs seem to targeting his store. And they are caught easily. The real pros don't seem to be interested....

844 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:04:23am

re: #813 cliffster

dude, you really like bold don't you?

It's a habit I got into years ago to separate my thoughts from other people. The quote boxes got to big in some cases. Seeing as how I can't do multiple quotes, I probably will cease to do that here.

845 prairiefire  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:04:59am

re: #836 Kruk

Something else to think of when you get these random friend requests.


*Gulp* I'd say that 90% of the people on my friends list are from my Mafia Wars mafia/Vampire Wars clan. I don't know the first thing about them.

I just de-friended 4 middle aged guys my daughter had friended on Facebook to play Evony with. All friends request must now first be approved by moi.

846 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:05:32am

re: #845 prairiefire

I just de-friended 4 middle aged guys my daughter had friended on Facebook to play Evony with. All friends request must now first be approved by moi.

Good on you.

847 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:08:42am

re: #693 Charles

Another stupid, tedious 2AM flounce comment, I see.

John_in_AZ aka Bob in Breckenridge is a douche.

848 prairiefire  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:10:27am

re: #846 JasonA

Thank you. She is now 12yrs+ and 5'2" and starting to get looks from guys until they realize she is still 12. I hope I do not separate a wind pipe from a thorax one day due to a misunderstanding! : )

849 Four More Tears  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:13:54am

re: #848 prairiefire

Thank you. She is now 12yrs+ and 5'2" and starting to get looks from guys until they realize she is still 12. I hope I do not separate a wind pipe from a thorax one day due to a misunderstanding! : )

I liked Obama's Jonas Bros. joke the other.
Two words: Predator drones.

850 PAUL_MACDONALD  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:20:24am

re: #832 lawhawk


I'm not trying to argue anything outside of the WTC being the Zenith of what they can, or ever could, do. The attacks have gotten progressively less technical. It doesn't say to me "we are lulling you into a sense of complacency with our Keystone Kops incompetence when in fact, we are a super army with all manner of secret weapons that we haven't used yet." It says to me that they are scraping the bottom of the barrel.

That the rebuilding hasn't been expedited fuels the problem. It doesn't matter that "it did the most damage" it has also had "the most time" to get rebuilt. In my mind, and in the mind of many others, something to replace the Towers is what is important. Until that begins in earnest, the real healing will never begin. This "they only need one to be successful" gets driven by the lack of the towers. Something equally majestic goes up, and that becomes "not even one can be successful". Changes the mindset.

From "Bring it on" to "look under every rock" is not healthy. Especially when the real problem doesn't reside in North America.

851 Sheepdogess  Tue, May 4, 2010 10:25:55am

re: #721 webevintage

What is the DEAL with John McCain? Has he just lost all control of his moral compass...say anything as long as it sounds like it will help him win the election?

Moral compass? Politicians don't have moral compasses.

It is unfortunate that most of the folks running the show in DC are politicians.
"Gimme, gimme, gimme, I want, I want, I want. Racism! Hate! Intolerance! blah blah blah. Hey can I go work at Fannie Mae or Freddie Mack and make millions? Oh please, please, please!".

As far as I'm concerned, they can all bugger off.

Leadership in Washington, along with free speech, (unless one is a porn star) is dead.


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Best of April 2024 Nothing new here but these are a look back at the a few good images from the past month. Despite the weather, I was quite pleased with several of them. These were taken with older lenses (made from the ...
William Lewis
Yesterday
Views: 118 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 4
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
3 weeks ago
Views: 385 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1