Congressional Black Caucus “Vehemently Opposes” Sanders’ Reform Demands

Black lawmakers say there are good reasons for superdelegates and closed primaries
Politics • Views: 35,491

Once again Bernie Sanders is at odds with African American lawmakers. His demands that the Democratic Party abolish superdelegates and closed primaries — oddly enough, two “reforms” that would have benefited Bernie Sanders — are meeting with a very chilly reception from the Congressional Black Caucus.

In a letter sent to both the Sanders and Hillary Clinton campaigns, the CBC is expressing its resolute opposition to two key reforms demanded by Sanders in the run-up to the Democratic convention: abolishing the party’s superdelegate system and opening Democratic primaries up to independents and Republicans.

“The Democratic Members of the Congressional Black Caucus recently voted unanimously to oppose any suggestion or idea to eliminate the category of Unpledged Delegate to the Democratic National Convention (aka Super Delegates) and the creation of uniform open primaries in all states,” says the letter, which was obtained by POLITICO. “The Democratic Party benefits from the current system of unpledged delegates to the National Convention by virtue of rules that allow members of the House and Senate to be seated as a delegate without the burdensome necessity of competing against constituents for the honor of representing the state during the nominating process.”

The letter — which was also sent to Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz — follows a Wednesday CBC meeting where members discussed for over an hour the impact of eliminating superdelegates on the African-American community, according to CBC Chairman Rep. G.K. Butterfield (D-N.C.).

“We passed a resolution in our caucus that we would vehemently oppose any change in the superdelegate system because members of the CBC might want to participate in the Democratic convention as delegates but if we would have to run for the delegate slot at the county level or state level or district level, we would be running against our constituents and we’re not going to do that,” said Butterfield. “But we want to participate as delegates and that’s why this superdelegates system was created in the beginning, so members would not have to run against their own constituents

Notice that Sanders isn’t demanding an end to caucuses, arguably one of the more undemocratic electoral processes. That’s because he did very well in states that have caucuses. It’s difficult to escape the conclusion that Sanders’ demands for reform are purely self-serving and have little to do with creating a more democratic process.

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272 comments
1
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:26:12pm

I’ve come to the conclusion that there has never been a rat Bernie Sanders didn’t want to fuck.

2
Dr. Matt  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:26:25pm

A guy who has been a Democrat for 15 minutes wants the Democratic Party to change their way on how they/we elect Presidential candidates. If you want to have a voice in the selection process, then you should have some skin in the game, i.e., registered as a Democrat. Allowing Indies and Republicans to have a voice in the selection of OUR candidate is utter lunacy.

3
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:28:59pm

Pure ego on Sanders’ part.

4
MsJ  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:29:00pm

Yes, let’s allow Operation Chaos to take effect for every election season where republican can pick the democratic nominee.

Brilliant.

Not only is Bernie an asshole, he’s an idiot, too.

5
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:31:07pm

re: #2 Dr. Matt

A guy who has been a Democrat for 15 minutes wants the Democratic Party to change their way on how they/we elect Presidential candidates. If you want to have a voice in the selection process, then you should have some skin in the game, i.e., registered as a Democrat. Allowing Indies and Republicans to have a voice in the selection of OUR candidate is utter lunacy.

Problem is, Republican ratfucking is effective. If Democrats tried it, they’d vote for somebody in the GOP primary that they figure is “too crazy to win”. 2010 and 2014 prove that there’s no such thing as “too crazy to win” on the Republican side.

6
Testy Toad T  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:31:42pm

Desperately, hopelessly clawing for any kind of relevance or attention. I can’t wait for his 11am speech at the convention.

7
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:34:26pm

Oh how Republicans wish they had superdelegates.

8
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:35:17pm

The Congressional Black Caucus has some power in the establishment. Bernie wants to take that away because the Congressional Socialist Caucus doesn’t have any.

9
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:37:15pm

Wagging finger. Gah.

10
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:37:40pm

Bernie Sanders to return to Senate for gun vote

Bernie Sanders may still be a presidential candidate, but on Monday he’s returning to his day job.

The Vermont senator will cast his first votes since January on gun legislation Monday after his absence from a Democrat-led filibuster Wednesday drew an angry response on social media. The 15-hour filibuster was held to demand action in the wake of the Orlando mass shooting on legislation to ban gun sales to suspected terrorists and expand background checks for gun buyers.

11
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:37:55pm

This weekend, I was out at a highland games, performing harp with a group of fellow enthusiasts. Most of us camped there, and after one of the event organizers came over wearing a Trump shirt, talk turned to politics. The group is fairly liberal, maybe skews slightly older, and a reasonable mix of views on topics such as guns, etc. A bunch of them did vote for Bernie in the primary.

Everyone agreed that the Republican race was a prime example of why the superdelegates system is a good thing and should stay in place.

12
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:38:14pm

re: #7 Nyet

Oh how Republicans wish they had superdelegates.

Superdelegates and closed primaries are how you keep Trumps from invading your party.

13
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:39:40pm

6Tbem+u4XkBLhNO2SX8N5jmU3/nbVd1npH+H+12UCO6eQKuedcoSZbZteC2o8YeVpu9IgQHtGJnF8cIfEiNjvtOzATV2RR/D0J5U97hux6boGGhE005ZvkWRNocd/UV4Jaal9P00WX1UYWajruePzYtGlB1UCvNnEEJZMtnDMbey8BcFCYNptTN4UVg9H7cHkqFK1Yp4SvRTES+P8c6W25VJBHtQOV9ZRUwgVcFgnSCmHP7UJb18qLrBjfNah0oFSIhsvwZtEGYPlYaYUFOfJ9+6copQXTVUylqEdsUYge7rEqme183QpfOSA2ZOwrUhJv1x/DVkkJ8fK01qHwUigd8xg9xRdOzaKytRmntUD2DV8CxRB7uALRV5AwCDo+/O7n5Znl743wI+JF7MZIQr7Q==

14
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:41:03pm

re: #11 klys (maker of Silmarils)

To be honest, Bernie has become a second best example.

15
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:41:59pm

hahahahahaaaa….
good luck with that…

16
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:43:39pm

re: #14 Nyet

To be honest, Bernie has become a second best example.

Yeah, but I didn’t feel like stirring the pot too much so I didn’t bring it up.

17
The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:43:44pm

Oh, well, BIAB

Cat nurses Ducklings

18
Testy Toad T  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:43:50pm

re: #15 Backwoods_Sleuth

hahahahahaaaa….
good luck with that…

Oh man, I can’t think of a more fitting punishment than for Sanders to be forced to carry out the daily toil of mainline establishment apparatchik.

I want this so badly.

19
jaunte  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:44:52pm

re: #15 Backwoods_Sleuth

Sanders ally Tim Canova (who is running against DWS) floats Bernie for DNC chair.

I thought you needed party allies to do that job.

20
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:45:22pm

re: #16 klys (maker of Silmarils)

My contribution to stirring the pot was being vehemently against Bernie as VP because “how else are you going to unify the party” (this is a shitty reason, period). But I confined my objections to age-related reasons instead.

21
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:45:58pm

re: #17 The Very Reverend Battleaxe of Knowledge

Oh, well, BIAB

[Embedded content]

Huh. I suppose cat milk is an improvement over semidigested bugs vomited down your throat.

22
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:46:02pm

re: #11 klys (maker of Silmarils)

This weekend, I was out at a highland games, performing harp with a group of fellow enthusiasts. Most of us camped there, and after one of the event organizers came over wearing a Trump shirt, talk turned to politics. The group is fairly liberal, maybe skews slightly older, and a reasonable mix of views on topics such as guns, etc. A bunch of them did vote for Bernie in the primary.

Everyone agreed that the Republican race was a prime example of why the superdelegates system is a good thing and should stay in place.

I didn’t remember you played the harp. Which games were you at?



Me playing Celtic harp in colonial American militia encampment.
23
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:49:24pm

re: #22 Aunty Entity Dragon

NkwDlr6jcpiUdL2yXGfdhdqzn7U1bJpMENr9AWxGccAfHrOlcnfWJZ2cNvHCjqzJSfG4Sk23cEqGVIRqv8YyALFWwFTWIeQyGYbKz4yY2X6o9dXysC0OJNsmZHSiGrPY5IrqlOrjVy5p2EIYhKrOAhZ0DU3J9GJijEurJhbsDvGbNgfeaH3RIHaKkRthUa54zNNYsXZWth/QaM2uDSD6H1v6oiQh5Ra/sWgAx+n/hgaY+tFM89VpUEQMskT0X2iC3eXToCp/7/r66T4HN3hLYcRGXfuBRQQ1Szh8sSBJNLnzJhN072SPO02uNlGvgbOXEfBELt6OhgSHRCV1zNCYz6POq1BHpeyFAyK5OaYneqwkTpdmnRitZxwo4uUVCKjV3DTrbc1Mtkq3yAwMS6veBqByt0kJ7PBWjDgaiTuh8lL1l0kYO7FN9l+WvAoTIf17g+O9KicmTSQ=

24
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:53:42pm

re: #23 klys (maker of Silmarils)

cpqsMkYVOGPF8gkQh5BDHx9dRh+hNYlkPj+mklEA9inqr/LdQJ+PPMmU2nVIiKdy23PwsCY4F794rcEADBJBI0ImKSTaF00DhiXyK5cUQBM=

25
Shimshon  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:53:43pm

Sanders only cares about the future of the Democratic party. That is why when he recently filed for his Senatorial re-election campaign, he chose to stay as an Independent. See!

26
lawhawk  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:55:06pm
His demands that the Democratic Party abolish superdelegates and closed primaries — oddly enough, two “reforms” that would have benefited Bernie Sanders

Abolishing supers wouldn’t have helped Bernie. Hillary still won without them (2026 to win, Hillary got 2202).

Eliminating closed primaries wouldn’t necessarily have helped Bernie either, since Hillary won open and closed primaries with similar aplomb.

As 538 and others ran the statistics, Bernie had no path to winning using any method available. None.

Winner take all? Nope.
Eliminate supers? Nope.
Open primaries only? Nope.
Closed primaries only? Nope.

The only scenario that guaranteed Bernie a higher chance at winning? Look to the demographics of the state. The more homogeneous the state, the more likely he won. A more diverse electorate meant the greater the chance Bernie lost. Bernie lost pretty much everywhere except the Northwest, Northern Plains, and New England.

Many of the states he did win were close or lacked the delegates to overcome Hillary’s advantage in delegate rich states like NY, NJ, FL, PA, CA, TX, IL, OH, VA, etc.

27
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:56:33pm

heh

28
Testy Toad T  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:57:34pm

re: #26 lawhawk

The only scenario that guaranteed Bernie a higher chance at winning? Look to the demographics of the state. The more homogeneous the state, the more likely he won. A more diverse electorate meant the greater the chance Bernie lost. Bernie lost pretty much everywhere except the Northwest, Northern Plains, and New England.

This is a point that is lost on a lot of people. It’s not even that Sanders won the white vote. He won the vote of whites who live in very white states.

Anything even faintly resembling a whiff of diversity and it was Clinton all the way, with the white voters as well as the voters of color.

29
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 12:59:17pm

re: #28 Testy Toad T

Anything even faintly resembling a whiff of diversity and it was Clinton all the way, with the white voters as well as the voters of color.

Not to mention women, which Bernie and his wife would rather you didn’t.

30
gwangung  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:00:22pm

re: #28 Testy Toad T

This is a point that is lost on a lot of people. It’s not even that Sanders won the white vote. He won the vote of whites who live in very white states.

Anything even faintly resembling a whiff of diversity and it was Clinton all the way, with the white voters as well as the voters of color.

Think he got off on the wrong foot and had no clue on how to adjust and right himself. And in the pitiless heat of an ongoing campaign, that’s deadly….

31
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:00:47pm

re: #26 lawhawk

Bernie on the landline phone to the Congressional Black Caucus to make some demands. (I honestly always thought he looked like a crank yankers character…)

32
Testy Toad T  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:03:20pm

re: #30 gwangung

Think he got off on the wrong foot and had no clue on how to adjust and right himself. And in the pitiless heat of an ongoing campaign, that’s deadly….

I think his complete lack of appeal to minority voters was much more intrinsic and reflected his apparent core belief that all problems in this country are fundamentally problems income inequality.

I have an inkling of a clue why that message might not resonate with blacks and hispanics.

33
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:04:00pm

re: #24 Aunty Entity Dragon

MJKWM6dfUwuHiDOjiy3pZFFK/9Snhf8u7BnGKqEbRQxFDV3RKDPzpnVL7kG6IVUrKEYuleuJKaeFW2RwnErvC6Oi3q+9RLaEIZ+M+Q91j55giwZxruwiglC7/rf1YST6jdjMjC4zjByYc6HfCdPHnsmui22oERdYGX0csYVPu2BEqTN0Ystg07+lrcfNaRiQac2x8DB5wR59Tp75e3tEE9YanHxs9KrbD7vOX3WzO07USlOMswI0uQVXoVx1Vpo6SQ0OaWlJoApwPr/euaoyzvp8uUudIdaiYtMyp5lIa4pyh3K0DeIKZNNxgIpLnpl2AeWurfWDVEsOZ534BVESI90IGWoP0rt9g0HPA6cXHtLYJGihja2+Xw==

34
gwangung  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:04:44pm

re: #32 Testy Toad T

I think his complete lack of appeal to minority voters was much more intrinsic and reflected his apparent core belief that all problems in this country are fundamentally problems income inequality.

I have an inkling of a clue why that message might not resonate with blacks and hispanics.

Well, OK, I was trying to be nicer than “He was clueless about black people and didn’t care to correct that.”

35
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:05:03pm

BTW…was Lady Mormont freakin’ awesome last night on GoT without even saying a word

36
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:05:22pm

Some Bernie fans continue to irritate the living fuck out of me.

Hillary Clinton was a Goldwater supporter in fucking NINTH GRADE. Trying to smear her with this is just ridiculous beyond belief.

37
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:05:32pm

Oh boy. One more angry old white guy…….

38
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:05:56pm

Whether or not to keep the super delegate system can reasonably be argued either way.

I’ve not seen a single rational argument in favor of open primaries. That idea is distilled essence of stupidity.

39
Donnie With The Good Hair (AKA Sophist)  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:06:00pm

That’s impossible! Donald Trump Bernie Sanders has an excellent relationship with The Blacks.

40
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:06:48pm

re: #33 klys (maker of Silmarils)

iFLm76uxV1lrOnNxps2+fZIrvfoqaJ733ODXBB8Tf81TfFLreD+6sXi0G+3ri807xavMwYzSM9C9o/loolP4vktzTqQPBuTl8SetsZ5sygOXbKMtH90zU9wHpkdU5SKUsMBm7jZ/JiEPDihmjt0OU1k4MQNv7wwOeShwLDIPiCFHLfFqLvqjHCmgeaaMBKM70Ij4RxEARiM=

41
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:07:25pm

Just saw another fake news/satire website tweeted, so heads up:
http:// bizstandardnews . com/about/

42
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:08:00pm

re: #34 gwangung

Well, OK, I was trying to be nicer than “He was clueless about black people and didn’t care to correct that.”

There’s no reason to be diplomatic in relation to such destructive stupidity.

43
Testy Toad T  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:08:01pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

Some Bernie fans continue to irritate the living fuck out of me.

It’s pretty obvious that the core demographic of the Berniebots are deeply unaccustomed to losing. They don’t know how to come in second. It’s not fair, they want Bernie really badly.

Politics of entitlement.

44
A Mom Anon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:08:04pm

Something I’ve noticed ( and I know anecdotes do not equal data) is that the people who want everything blown to pieces so we can supposedly start over in the United States of Unicorn Glitter Farts, are people who either 1) will not be touched by any of the chaos that will ensue because they have money or 2) simply haven’t spent time out in the real ass world where the rest of us have to live and try to figure out a way to care for ourselves and our families or 3) a combo platter of the above. I wish at least some of them would read a decent American History book at the very least.

It’s real easy to advocate for extreme shit when you won’t be effected by it. It’s also easy to talk shit like that when you have never had to scrape by. I know, this is a sweeping generalization. I apologize for that.

I will say this though: Far too many people think they can change the world by doing shit online or by symbolic protests. Neither of those things do jack shit. Democrats seem especially vulnerable to this sort of thinking and as a result, while our side was doing all those protests and the like, the other side got to work getting their people elected to everything from school boards and city councils to US Senators and Representatives. We have got to stop romanticising the 60s and get with the fucking program here. The only practical way to change things is from the inside out, revolutions generally have a lot of death and carnage involved. People seem to forget that part.

45
lawhawk  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:08:47pm

re: #38 EPR-radar

Whether or not to keep the super delegate system can reasonably be argued either way.

I’ve not seen a single rational argument in favor of open primaries. That idea is distilled essence of stupidity.

It’s arguable that the supers can be a check against someone like Trump.

For instance, if Trump somehow managed to win bare majority of pledged in Democratic system - 2025, he’d still need several hundred supers to get to 2383. If the supers voted to keep Trump from the nomination, they’d be within their rights to do so even though the party typically frowns on that kind of action (go with the person who won majority. But I suspect even Democrats would be horrified at a Trump-candidate style run.

46
Jay C  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:09:43pm

re: #8 wrenchwench

The Congressional Black Caucus has some power in the establishment. Bernie wants to take that away because the Congressional Socialist Caucus doesn’t have any.

I thought Bernie Sanders WAS the “Congressional Socialist Caucus”?

47
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:10:35pm

re: #44 A Mom Anon

The whole Occupy movement fell apart over that. Horizontal organization and drum circles do not actually lead anywhere useful.

48
Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:10:35pm

re: #44 A Mom Anon

Very well written, would give 5 updings if I could.

49
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:10:38pm

We can expect the right wing media to go insane about this.

Authorities: Man at Vegas rally said he wanted to kill Trump

50
Donnie With The Good Hair (AKA Sophist)  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:10:56pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

If your key arguments for why minorities should vote for your candidate all revolve around things that happened fifty years ago, you have a serious problem.

51
Testy Toad T  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:11:28pm

re: #47 Aunty Entity Dragon

The whole Occupy movement fell apart over that. Horizontal organization and drum circles do not actually lead anywhere useful.

So is, I think, BLM.

Which is unfortunate.

52
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:11:40pm
53
A Mom Anon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:11:41pm

BBL, gotta go get The Kid from work, and fight that lovely rush hour traffic where a 20 minute round trip will now take about an hour. sigh.

54
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:12:18pm

re: #50 Donnie With The Good Hair (AKA Sophist)

If your key arguments for why minorities should vote for your candidate all revolve around things that happened fifty years ago, you have a serious problem.

If you think having Cornel West as a campaign surrogate is useful in addressing said problem, you’re delusional.

55
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:12:18pm

re: #46 Jay C

I thought Bernie Sanders WAS the “Congressional Socialist Caucus”?

Purity politics always seems to lead to the same spot…

56
Shimshon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:13:02pm

re: #32 Testy Toad T

I think his complete lack of appeal to minority voters was much more intrinsic and reflected his apparent core belief that all problems in this country are fundamentally problems income inequality.

I have an inkling of a clue why that message might not resonate with blacks and hispanics.

I don’t think he is clueless, I think he has not spent any time since he was a young kid protesting in the Civil Rights era doing any work on behalf of minorities. He represented the white white state and did not bother making his name known to minority communities until he ran for President.

His ideas all revolve around his time representing the white white state, addressing issues that the white middle class cares about which appeals to the progressive young people that make up a large portion of that income group. But things that the minority communities have complained about since the 1970’s at least. Bernie fans pretend these are all new concepts and they are the first to think up solutions to these new problems.

He never cared to tailor his ideas to appeal to minorities, he just thought he could talk on and on about the same issues that most other Democratic candidates have been campaigning for decades. It’s sad how many Bernie supporters thought this was the first time a candidate talked about the negatives of the drug war, expensive college, loss of well paying jobs for the under-educated, and high costs of living. But that goes back to the fault of the Bernie supporters who never cared for the political process especially in mid-term elections. They could just bitch about how politicians are all the same, man, and sit home while letting the GOP win elections and pushing their agenda. It’s not a new thing, either, before the Obama revolution gave up after less than 2 years and sat home while scare tactics from the right about Obamacare drove the GOP to win more power in 2010, that was just history repeating itself in 1994 after the Clinton revolution sat at home less than 2 years after he won in 1992. Then we got all the right wing legislation that people dishonestly blame on Clinton like NAFTA and the war on drugs or financial reform because the GOP controlled Congress.

Not being politically active by saying both sides are bad is a great way to justify spending no time doing your civic duty and only caring about yourself. This way I can ignore politics and going to town hall meetings, calling or writing my representatives, voting, researching the candidates, because that takes time! I can dedicate all my life to working to feed my lifestyle and never do anything for anyone else.

I guess I’m rambling on here but I hope it makes sense. I am not that old, but before I was old enough to vote I was politically active in the 1980’s thanks to my parents. I’ve seen the same things happen over and over each decade all because people don’t bother to pay attention and then remember what happened before. Maybe the 4channers are right, burn it all down and vote Trump.

58
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:13:28pm

re: #51 Testy Toad T

So is, I think, BLM.

Which is unfortunate.

They have done better, in that there has been some transition to putting together policy that they would like to see and presenting it to politicians/having a dialog. As I recall, folks met with both Bernie and Hillary on those issues and I believe Hillary at least did update some policy points as a result.

That’s the result of a few folks’ work, though, and not the overall movement. (Deray is the name that comes immediately to mind, although I know there are others involved.)

59
A Mom Anon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:14:22pm

re: #51 Testy Toad T

This seems to happen to most of the left wing movements of the recent past. I don’t know if it’s ratfucking or just really clueless people wanting better but not knowing how to get there. (and now I really am outta here til later…)

60
sagehen  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:14:29pm

re: #35 Aunty Entity Dragon

BTW…was Lady Mormont freakin’ awesome last night on GoT without even saying a word

Embedded Image

I’ll be trawling the fanfic sites tonight for Danaerys/Yara.

61
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:15:22pm

re: #46 Jay C

I thought Bernie Sanders WAS the “Congressional Socialist Caucus”?

Make the Congressional Socialist Caucus great again.

62
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:15:33pm

re: #54 EPR-radar

If you think having Cornel West as a campaign surrogate is useful in addressing said problem, you’re delusional.

I’m curious what black folks think of Cornel West. I suspect a fair percentage either say, “THAT asshole?” or…

63
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:16:19pm

re: #46 Jay C

I thought Bernie Sanders WAS the “Congressional Socialist Caucus”?

Right. And a caucus of one has no power.

64
Shimshon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:16:39pm

re: #44 A Mom Anon

Something I’ve noticed ( and I know anecdotes do not equal data) is that the people who want everything blown to pieces so we can supposedly start over in the United States of Unicorn Glitter Farts, are people who either 1) will not be touched by any of the chaos that will ensue because they have money or 2) simply haven’t spent time out in the real ass world where the rest of us have to live and try to figure out a way to care for ourselves and our families or 3) a combo platter of the above. I wish at least some of them would read a decent American History book at the very least.

It’s real easy to advocate for extreme shit when you won’t be effected by it. It’s also easy to talk shit like that when you have never had to scrape by. I know, this is a sweeping generalization. I apologize for that.

I will say this though: Far too many people think they can change the world by doing shit online or by symbolic protests. Neither of those things do jack shit. Democrats seem especially vulnerable to this sort of thinking and as a result, while our side was doing all those protests and the like, the other side got to work getting their people elected to everything from school boards and city councils to US Senators and Representatives. We have got to stop romanticising the 60s and get with the fucking program here. The only practical way to change things is from the inside out, revolutions generally have a lot of death and carnage involved. People seem to forget that part.

The Bush years showed that everyone has skin in the game to lose. From working class kids who need the military to further their career and get out of the small towns or cycle of poverty to educated middle class people that see so many benefits cut and costs of schooling and health care skyrocket (tax cuts for the rich, Medicare part D leading to huge medicine costs that we see today that are to blame for Obamacare cost increases, etc). People losing their jobs and harassed for being “anti-American” because they protested the war or refused to accept America now tortures.

But for some reason these people either slept through the Bush years, or my belief is they were too young or out of touch with what was happening to care.

Many of the “burn it down” people I have seen that still post under the same names on sites like Fark were the loudest supporters of the Bush administration. They re-invented themselves as “independents” who couldn’t stand anything Obama did and now are suddenly life long progressives/liberals that want Bernie or if not, then Trump to burn it down. Spoiled entitled brats.

65
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:16:43pm

re: #60 sagehen

I’ll be trawling the fanfic sites tonight for Danaerys/Yara.

Ah, but Varys and Theon have so much in common, now.
///

66
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:16:53pm

re: #35 Aunty Entity Dragon

BTW…was Lady Mormont freakin’ awesome last night on GoT without even saying a word

[Embedded image]

No way a kid actor should be this good.

But there certainly was an awful lot of female badassing going on in GoT last night. And I so much like the new Sansa.

67
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:17:07pm

re: #49 Charles Johnson

We can expect the right wing media to go insane about this.

Authorities: Man at Vegas rally said he wanted to kill Trump

Dreher will no doubt concern troll us later tonight that the social justice warrior ‘mob’ (any collection of 5 or more people in one place who Dreher does not like is automatically a mob) will motivate the silent majority Nixonian reactionaries to turn out and vote for Trump just like they turned out in 1972.

People keep telling Dreher that it isn’t 1972 and that Hillary is NOT George McGovern…

68
gwangung  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:17:10pm

re: #58 klys (maker of Silmarils)

They have done better, in that there has been some transition to putting together policy that they would like to see and presenting it to politicians/having a dialog. As I recall, folks met with both Bernie and Hillary on those issues and I believe Hillary at least did update some policy points as a result.

That’s the result of a few folks’ work, though, and not the overall movement. (Deray is the name that comes immediately to mind, altho though I know there are others involved.)

Actually, I think both campaigns did updates thanks to BLM pressure; it’s just that Sanders’ behavior and subsequent cluelessness (“I’ll do more for racial equity than Obama”) made it appear to be the usual lip service.

And I think BLM has sparked some local changes, electing some candidates and defeating others, so it’s not as visible or as sexy as protests in the streets.

69
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:18:51pm
70
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:19:02pm

re: #60 sagehen

I’ll be trawling the fanfic sites tonight for Danaerys/Yara.

Danaerys & Yara slash fiction. Pure win.

71
Dr. Matt  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:20:03pm

re: #49 Charles Johnson

We can expect the right wing media to go insane about this.

Authorities: Man at Vegas rally said he wanted to kill Trump

And yet they are completely silent about the 1000s upon 1000s of death threats made against our POTUS.

72
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:20:27pm

re: #70 Aunty Entity Dragon

Danaerys & Yara slash fiction. Pure win.

Seems like Yara disappeared for a couple of years. GoT tends to do that with a lot of characters.

73
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:21:09pm
74
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:23:47pm

re: #69 Kragar

1) Orlando basically wasn’t a terrorist attack.

2) The US is not yet degenerate enough to behave as expected by the likes of Trump.

75
Donnie With The Good Hair (AKA Sophist)  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:24:35pm

re: #54 EPR-radar

If you think having Cornel West as a campaign surrogate is useful in addressing said problem, you’re delusional.

Really? You mean a guy who frequently makes absurdly offensive attacks on a president they love is a suboptimal envoy to the Black community? Odd, that…

76
Kragar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:24:58pm
77
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:25:17pm

re: #66 Sir John Barron

No way a kid actor should be this good.

But there certainly was an awful lot of female badassing going on in GoT last night. And I so much like the new Sansa.

It’s kind of a tossup between her and Danaerys who’s the most changed from the first episode. I suspect she and Arya might get on better, now.

78
sagehen  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:25:53pm

re: #68 gwangung

And I think BLM has sparked some local changes, electing some candidates and defeating others, so it’s not as visible or as sexy as protests in the streets.

Even where they didn’t elect anyone, they got body-cams passed in a dozen or more cities. Plus they’ve made every cop in America take notice that cell-phone cameras are everywhere always, so that’s probably saved a few lives already.

79
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:27:06pm

re: #72 Sir John Barron

Seems like Yara disappeared for a couple of years. GoT tends to do that with a lot of characters.

Yara is pretty much based on the historical Grace O’Malley.

en.wikipedia.org

80
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:27:08pm

re: #66 Sir John Barron

No way a kid actor should be this good.

But there certainly was an awful lot of female badassing going on in GoT last night. And I so much like the new Sansa.

Sansa turning her husband into Bolton Brand Puppy Chow is my favorite thing ever in this series

Almost ranks up with President Laura Roslin on Battlestar Galactica going nuclear on her former VP Tom Zarek:

No. Not now. Not ever. Do you hear me? I will use every cannon, every bomb, every bullet, every weapon I have down to my own eye teeth to end you! I swear it! I’m coming for all of you!

Battlestar Galactica - Laura Roslin!

81
darthstar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:27:21pm
82
freetoken  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:28:13pm

Open primaries seem self-contradictory to me. Why have political parties if there are not going to be ways for parties to select their own candidates where the parties can define themselves?

Or, you can do as we now do in California, with the top-2 systems, which I also think is a bit silly (and ultimately is based on the overly-constraining idea that there are only two sides to a disagreement.)

83
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:28:27pm

re: #69 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Well maybe they will luck out and some more people will be murdered? Boy oh boy. These guys. In the neck. With a rusty hanger.

84
cat-tikvah  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:29:41pm

re: #44 A Mom Anon

I have noted to some Bernie-supporting friends that with a revolution, you don’t usually get the one you wanted or thought you would. It opens Pandora’s Box of political hell.

85
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:31:20pm

re: #80 Aunty Entity Dragon

Sansa turning her husband into Bolton Brand Puppy Chow is my favorite thing ever in this series

Almost ranks up with President Laura Roslin on Battlestar Galactica going nuclear on her former VP Tom Zarek:

[Embedded content]

The totally calm, cool way she did it, too. Completely motionless, nothing in her eyes but contempt.

And to think, this was the girl that Cersei so easily manipulated.

86
MsJ  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:31:54pm

re: #69 Kragar

The sad thing is that Trump would likely had gotten a bump from the Orlando shooting had he not taken a victory lap before expressing any kind of sympathy, outrage or any other emotion other than ME I ME LOOK AT ME!

87
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:32:08pm

Ok enough with the GoT talk, trying to block it out since we went to bed before it came on last night LOL.

88
Dr. Matt  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:32:10pm

re: #81 darthstar

Embedded Image

I had to google that one.

89
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:32:32pm

re: #84 cat-tikvah

I have noted to some Bernie-supporting friends that with a revolution, you don’t usually get the one you wanted or thought you would. It opens Pandora’s Box of political hell.

Revolutions rarely end with merely getting rid of the original antagonists.

Oh no.

The Revolution needs a constant stream of enemies to organize against…and if none are evident, they will be manufactured to order.

90
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:32:50pm

re: #47 Aunty Entity Dragon

The whole Occupy movement fell apart over that. Horizontal organization and drum circles do not actually lead anywhere useful.

Or farting for that matter.

91
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:33:22pm

re: #85 Blind Frog Belly White

The totally calm, cool way she did it, too. Completely motionless, nothing in her eyes but contempt.

And to think, this was the girl that Cersei so easily manipulated.

If anything, she may now be Cersei 2.0. I hope not, but there we are.

92
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:33:58pm

re: #80 Aunty Entity Dragon

Sansa is the brains. Tried to tell Jon Snow. Nope. He fell for it. Hook. Line. Sinker. Almost cost them it all. Sansa took Little Finger up on his offer. Now we see just how strong Sansa is. Judging by her smile walking away from Ramsey, I’d say pretty damn strong. But I’ll bet she’s pregnant.

93
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:34:23pm

re: #79 Decatur Deb

Yara is pretty much based on the historical Grace O’Malley.

en.wikipedia.org

Interesting. Thought it was a bit funny when Danaerys asked Yara to agree that Yara’s people would not continue raping and pillaging. Hadn’t realized that was what those in the Iron Islands did. I guess the Iron Islands are supposed to be like the Vikings.

94
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:35:45pm
95
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:35:47pm

re: #91 Aunty Entity Dragon

If anything, she may now be Cersei 2.0. I hope not, but there we are.

Cersei has been noticeably less badass this season. Maybe she’ll make up for it in the finale.

96
Donnie With The Good Hair (AKA Sophist)  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:36:10pm

re: #74 EPR-radar

1) Orlando basically wasn’t a terrorist attack.

2) The US is not yet degenerate enough to behave as expected by the likes of Trump.

3) Donald Trump is utterly incapable of finesse, and his ham-handed attempts to capitalize on the situation just made people dislike him even more.

97
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:36:16pm

re: #94 Stanley Sea

Everything is fine….

98
cat-tikvah  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:36:34pm

re: #89 Aunty Entity Dragon

I recommended they read Marjan Satrapi’s marvelous graphic novel Persepolis. She chronicles the Iranian revolution and the hope of many, including her beloved communist uncle, that better times were dawning.

Her uncle was executed by the new regime.

99
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:36:38pm

re: #91 Aunty Entity Dragon

If anything, she may now be Cersei 2.0. I hope not, but there we are.

Sansa would be much better at it than Cersei, who always overestimates her own cleverness, and underestimates her opponents.

Except Ned Stark. He walked right into it.

100
Shimshon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:37:17pm

re: #82 freetoken

Open primaries seem self-contradictory to me. Why have political parties if there are not going to be ways for parties to select their own candidates where the parties can define themselves?

Or, you can do as we now do in California, with the top-2 systems, which I also think is a bit silly (and ultimately is based on the overly-constraining idea that there are only two sides to a disagreement.)

Open primaries are great when you have other motives and want to sabotage a party. If we can’t trust people who never lifted a finger to work with the Democratic party in the past which helped the GOP, and their leader a guy who is so proud to be a Democrat he just started being one for this campaign and is quickly going back to Independent, then who can we trust to have the best interests of the country and the Democratic party in mind??

101
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:38:46pm

re: #92 nines09

Sansa is the brains. Tried to tell Jon Snow. Nope. He fell for it. Hook. Line. Sinker. Almost cost them it all. Sansa took Little Finger up on his offer. Now we see just how strong Sansa is. Judging by her smile walking away from Ramsey, I’d say pretty damn strong. But I’ll bet she’s pregnant.

Yeah, couldn’t believe Jon fell for that. Ramsey sure did do the power building and warring things pretty good. But his character was so awful he deserved to have his head cut off, be brought back to life, then decapitated again.

102
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:40:20pm

re: #94 Stanley Sea

So the campaign metrics are continuing to go well, then….

103
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:41:29pm

re: #101 Sir John Barron

He did just what Sansa said he would do. Jon thought he could save his brother. Sansa knew he was dead. His death almost killed them all.

104
Donnie With The Good Hair (AKA Sophist)  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:41:38pm

re: #84 cat-tikvah

I have noted to some Bernie-supporting friends that with a revolution, you don’t usually get the one you wanted or thought you would. It opens Pandora’s Box of political hell.

Americans’ ideas about how revolutions work have been tainted by the fact that, all things considered, we got reeeeeally fucking lucky with the one we had. We’re under the impression that’s how they usually turn out, to our detriment.

105
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:42:14pm

re: #95 Sir John Barron

Cersei has been noticeably less badass this season. Maybe she’ll make up for it in the finale.

The man who put The Mountain back together had some children stop by a while back…..And gave them things and sent them on their way. Seeing the things he gives people……And when Cersei is informed of no more champions to defend honor, he tells her that his birds have told him things that she suspected. And more. Much. More.

106
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:42:22pm

re: #92 nines09

Sansa is the brains. Tried to tell Jon Snow. Nope. He fell for it. Hook. Line. Sinker. Almost cost them it all. Sansa took Little Finger up on his offer. Now we see just how strong Sansa is. Judging by her smile walking away from Ramsey, I’d say pretty damn strong. But I’ll bet she’s pregnant.

I can’t really blame Jon for that. Most people would likely do the same thing seeing a close family member killed that way. Yes, Sansa warned him that there was no way to rescue Rickon, but trying to predict exactly what a true sadistic sociopath would do in that situation is almost impossible.

If anything, Ramsey was sort of a reverse Mary Sue character in that he was almost perfectly evil and supernaturally competent.. Snow Ninja commando raid? He can do it. 200 yard shot with a bow at a boy sized target? He can do that too. Reliably torture people into complete psychological obedience? Yep.

People with his character/social deficiencies generally do not manage to hold things together like that. They self destruct and the people around them begin to jump ship or stage a coup.

107
Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:42:25pm

re: #95 Sir John Barron

Cersei has been noticeably less badass this season. Maybe she’ll make up for it in the finale.

I am actually feeling bad for Cersei this season and I hate that.

108
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:44:53pm

re: #99 Blind Frog Belly White

Sansa would be much better at it than Cersei, who always overestimates her own cleverness, and underestimates her opponents.

Except Ned Stark. He walked right into it.

Ned was blindsided by Littlefinger. That is always the problem with alliances in King’s Landing. They have a shelf life measured in minutes.

109
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:45:52pm

re: #107 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I am actually feeling bad for Cersei this season and I hate that.

I’m sure a few thousand gallons of magical napalm will take care of everything next week.

110
makeitstop  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:46:21pm

re: #94 Stanley Sea

Trump adviser Michael Caputo resigns after throwing shade at Corey Lewandowski

So now we’re at a national staff of 28? LOL

111
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:46:28pm
112
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:46:44pm

re: #108 Aunty Entity Dragon

Ned was blindsided by Littlefinger. That is always the problem with alliances in King’s Landing. They have a shelf life measured in minutes.

IIRC, one of the first things Littlefinger told Ned was not to trust anyone in King’s Landing.

113
Charles Johnson  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:46:47pm
114
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:48:05pm

re: #110 makeitstop

So now we’re at a national staff of 28? LOL

Get your grift now while vacancies last!

115
darthstar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:48:17pm

re: #113 Charles Johnson

Is that his Presidential campaign or his new Senate campaign?

116
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:48:49pm

re: #113 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

But he is running for Senate again after complaining he hated the job worse than anything.

117
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:49:14pm

re: #110 makeitstop

So now we’re at a national staff of 28? LOL

Corey said this just means they’re lean and mean, and he’s too stupid to lie!

118
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:50:01pm

re: #94 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Oh please…let Katrina be next…

119
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:50:28pm

re: #112 Blind Frog Belly White

IIRC, one of the first things Littlefinger told Ned was not to trust anyone in King’s Landing.

Yep. Walk away, say the engagement is off and go home.

120
freetoken  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:50:46pm

Gustatory salvation:

Reverse Feeding Tube Approved by Federal Agency

A reverse feeding tube developed in St. Louis to aid in weight loss by removing calories before they are digested has been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.

The St. Louis Post-Dispatch reports that the AspireAssist siphons food out of the stomach through a port implanted in the abdomen. The device was developed by researchers at Washington University in St. Louis.

[…]

121
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:51:45pm

re: #106 Aunty Entity Dragon

And that is why we watch Game Of Thrones. Because it stays together enough to warrant tuning in next week. But Arya not only being shanked repeatedly by the waif, but the knife being twisted……Then a week…days.. later the Waif shows up, kills Aryas benefactor, and a almost mortally wounded Arya not only outruns a completely healthy waif, but runs, jumps, falls, crashes and in reality would have bled out……But she gets to Needle… and presents, slices the candle, and dances in the dark, slays the Waif, and takes her face back to the Temple Of The God Of Many faces and…..but the others were good.

122
darthstar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:53:07pm

This Presidential campaign is getting to be about as satisfying as mocking a special needs child.

I want to apologize now for wishing Trump onto the GOP. They may suck as a party, but they didn’t deserve this and they’re turning our country into a laughing stock…what should be a historical election is going to be a hysterical farce.

123
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:53:14pm

re: #107 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I am actually feeling bad for Cersei this season and I hate that.

That’s one of the more amazing bits of emotional manipulation - taking a character who’s not very sympathetic to start with, then making her less and less sympathetic, till finally she fucks up so royally that she gets her just desserts, and THEN making her long-awaited comeuppance so severe you can’t help but feel for her.

124
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:55:04pm

On a weird note, the TV and film reviewer at The Atlantic made a very strange complaint about the Bolton troops in the episode last night. Here is my letter in the comment section:

Sorry, but Chris Orr just lost me at

“More ridiculous still, when did the army of House Bolton become such an impossibly disciplined and formidable fighting force, with its impenetrable turtle of shields and lances—the Unsullied of Westeros? The answer is “never.”

What…he was used to seeing ‘professional troops’ in fantasy and historical action flix that just run across the field of battle?

It was about damned time that somebody show trained soldiers actually acting like trained soldiers on screen: staying in formation,using their shields and pikes together, closing ranks and advancing as one cohesive unit.

That is how everybody fought in Northern Europe in the 12th and 13th century, and Spanish Habsburg tertios were still kicking ass with pikes as late as 1648.

Now, I loved Braveheart as much as anybody and maybe more than most.

That being said…the Battle of Bannockburn was missing something: Scottish schiltrons armed with PIKES, AXES AND SHIELDS exactly like what you saw last night on GoT.

That bit where the Wildings and Stark forces were constricted into a narrow front and could not coordinate an attack against the advancing pikewall?

THAT IS WHAT THE SCOTS UNDER ROBERT THE BRUCE DID TO THE ENGLISH…and they were not “impossibly disciplined”

They used the tactics of the time. That changed as the Welsh longbow came into play, but the pikewall was not truly obsolete until flintlock muskets started coming into production.

125
freetoken  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:55:43pm

This could be the emblem for any ammosexual:

Image: osnjdhlfzkonlloxhng7.jpg

from: kotaku.com.au

126
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:56:09pm

Can’t stop laughing

127
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:56:55pm

re: #122 darthstar

This Presidential campaign is getting to be about as satisfying as mocking a special needs child.

I want to apologize now for wishing Trump onto the GOP. They may suck as a party, but they didn’t deserve this and they’re turning our country into a laughing stock…what should be a historical election is going to be a hysterical farce.

I disagree. The GOP absolutely deserves Trump. The conditions for the success of Trump’s scapegoating and demagoguery in this campaign were created by decades of Republican propaganda intended to amplify all the worst parts of US politics.

128
Dr. Matt  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:58:28pm

re: #122 darthstar

I want to apologize now for wishing Trump onto the GOP. They may suck as a party, but they didn’t deserve this and they’re turning our country into a laughing stock…what should be a historical election is going to be a hysterical farce.

I disagree. They completely deserve this. This is the party that has courted and placated the worst of the worst over the last several decades including some of the most vile characters over the last 7+ years. They never tried to distance themselves from the extremists. They wholeheartedly welcomed them because power was more important than civility and decency.

129
Big Beautiful Door  Jun 20, 2016 • 1:59:02pm

re: #99 Blind Frog Belly White

Sansa would be much better at it than Cersei, who always overestimates her own cleverness, and underestimates her opponents.

Except Ned Stark. He walked right into it.

And that was because it was mostly Littlefinger’s scheme.

130
Big Beautiful Door  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:00:27pm

re: #101 Sir John Barron

Yeah, couldn’t believe Jon fell for that. Ramsey sure did do the power building and warring things pretty good. But his character was so awful he deserved to have his head cut off, be brought back to life, then decapitated again.

Glad that sadistic monster is gone. Too one dimensional. Next season’s primary villain should be our favorite schemer, Littlefinger.

131
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:01:06pm

re: #128 Dr. Matt

I’m with Darthstar, in spades. The consequences are going far beyond the GOP.

132
SteelPH  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:01:14pm

re: #116 Aunty Entity Dragon

But he is running for Senate again after complaining he hated the job worse than anything.

How would he even know? He never actually did his job. He just spent his entire tenure as a senator running around, making speeches about how much he thinks Obama sucks.

133
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:01:40pm

re: #126 Great White Snark

[Embedded content]

Can’t stop laughing

Wouldn’t be surprised if the guy just wanted out and wanted to go with a splash.

134
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:02:00pm

My friend’s 15 yo daughter just met Ted Cruz at the baggage claim in DC.

She snapchatted a photo of the two of them “LMAOOO I JUST MET TED CRUZ DEADASS”

ha, I’m dying.

135
Big Beautiful Door  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:02:02pm

re: #104 Donnie With The Good Hair (AKA Sophist)

Americans’ ideas about how revolutions work have been tainted by the fact that, all things considered, we got reeeeeally fucking lucky with the one we had. We’re under the impression that’s how they usually turn out, to our detriment.

We should’ve learned better from how badly the Southern revolution worked out.

136
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:04:04pm

re: #107 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I am actually feeling bad for Cersei this season and I hate that.

That’s one thing the show has done, blur the lines somewhat between good and bad characters, over time, make formerly reviled characters somewhat sympathetic as they face different situations and other ambiguous characters. The Lannisters are a case in point. Even Little Finger.

Another show I watched was Banshee (Cinemax), which I also didn’t start watching until it had been on for a few seasons. It’s set in the modern day but was similar to GoT in many ways with the alliances, ambiguity of the characters. Really pushed the envelope with the violence and gratuitous sex. But I got into it after a bit.

137
Dr. Matt  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:05:15pm

re: #131 Great White Snark

I’m with Darthstar, in spades. The consequences are going far beyond the GOP.

No. It’s not. At all. FFS

138
Big Beautiful Door  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:05:18pm

re: #122 darthstar

This Presidential campaign is getting to be about as satisfying as mocking a special needs child.

I want to apologize now for wishing Trump onto the GOP. They may suck as a party, but they didn’t deserve this and they’re turning our country into a laughing stock…what should be a historical election is going to be a hysterical farce.

Oh, the GOP deserves Trump so, so much.

139
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:07:43pm
140
I Would Prefer Not To  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:07:53pm

re: #128 Dr. Matt

I disagree. They completely deserve this. This is the party that has courted and placated the worst of the worst over the last several decades including some of the most vile characters over the last 7+ years. They never tried to distance themselves from the extremists. They wholeheartedly welcomed them because power was more important than civility and decency.

This is the party that mocked a gay veteran and people without healthcare. They deserve Trump.

141
freetoken  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:08:46pm

It’s cooled off 20F since we hit our high just before noon. The airflow must have changed to an on-shore direction.

Still, it was very hot before noon, several records broken.

142
SteelPH  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:09:06pm

re: #128 Dr. Matt

I disagree. They completely deserve this. This is the party that has courted and placated the worst of the worst over the last several decades including some of the most vile characters over the last 7+ years. They never tried to distance themselves from the extremists. They wholeheartedly welcomed them because power was more important than civility and decency.

This. The GOP did this to themselves. They have to reap what they’ve sewn.

143
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:10:04pm

re: #137 Dr. Matt

What has convinced you, despite what Obama and Biden and others have told us that only the GOP is being damaged by that candidate? Were they full of crap when they said so?

144
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:10:07pm

re: #131 Great White Snark

I’m with Darthstar, in spades. The consequences are going far beyond the GOP.

I don’t feel sorry for the GOP on Trump’s account. They continue to hold the majority of state houses and governorships, as well as both houses of congress. And what’s even more remarkable is that as ridiculous as Trump is, he’s within single digits of HRC.

The downside is for the nation as a whole. Not that we would have been assured of an informative campaign either way, but the atmosphere of Trump means our usually rather dumbed down political debates will be ratcheted down even further.

145
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:10:24pm

re: #141 freetoken

9nM+6gCjPs3X54jumWub2Hyt1/qvDbg5T2rUQwZpgWRMmiz8SODlKVjhoSWEajzj

146
whitebeach  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:10:34pm

re: #104 Donnie With The Good Hair (AKA Sophist)

Americans’ ideas about how revolutions work have been tainted by the fact that, all things considered, we got reeeeeally fucking lucky with the one we had. We’re under the impression that’s how they usually turn out, to our detriment.

Maybe we need to realize we had two revolutions, one that succeeded and one that was a horror and is still fucking the nation over to this day.

147
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:11:18pm

re: #138 Big Beautiful Door

Oh, the GOP deserves Trump so, so much.

They deserve each other and they deserve every bit of mockery and the eventual catastrophic loss they will (hopefully) suffer in November. The Republican party has gone so off the rails that the equation is now essentially: If it is good for the Republican party, it is BAD for the country as a whole.

A party that invested in cynicism and sadism deserves to be crushed and humiliated.

148
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:13:42pm

re: #144 Sir John Barron

I don’t feel sorry for the GOP on Trump’s account. They continue to hold the majority of state houses and governorships, as well as both houses of congress. And what’s even more remarkable is that as ridiculous as Trump is, he’s within single digits of HRC.

The downside is for the nation as a whole. Not that we would have been assured of an informative campaign either way, but the atmosphere of Trump means our usually rather dumbed down political debates will be ratcheted down even further.

And the Democrats won one precious state in the 1984 elections. I doubt Trump’s likely loss will be as bad as that. Then in 2020 the GOP can take a shot at nominating a more sentient being, Paul Ryan perhaps. Rubio. Or someone worse, like Cruz.

149
The Vicious Babushka  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:14:41pm

Now YOU can own the fabulous YOOGE diamond ring that Donald Trump gave to his Wife #2! Only $250,000 SUCH A DEAL.

150
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:15:25pm

re: #136 Sir John Barron

That’s one thing the show has done, blur the lines somewhat between good and bad characters, over time, make formerly reviled characters somewhat sympathetic as they face different situations and other ambiguous characters. The Lannisters are a case in point. Even Little Finger.

Somebody said of GoT that the whole point is that it’s never telling the story you think it is. Fantasy literature generally has Good and Evil. Elves vs Orcs, Gandalf et al. vs Sauron, etc. You may have the occasional traitor. Good triumphs.

In GoT, at first you think it’s how brave, honorable Ned Stark saves the 7 Kingdoms from the evil Lannisters.

Then he gets his head cut off.

You think maybe it’s about how Danaerys and Khal Drogo cross the sea with 10,000 Dothraki and win back her throne.

Then he dies of an infection.

So then, you think it’s about how brave, honorable Rob Stark takes revenge on the Lannisters for killing Ned.

Then HE gets HIS head cut off.

So then, you think maybe it’s about how Tyrion saves King’s Landing and finally earns the respect he has always deserves.

Nope.

Eventually you just give up trying to figure it out, because he’ll just change it on you again.

151
freetoken  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:17:05pm

Societies change, and the orgainziation, the politics, of any society must too.

That the GOP is in the current grips of atavism doesn not mean it will always be so.

So beliefs, outdated beliefs, are having a hard time dying.

But people do die. We all do.

So while neo-racism is in the vogue with Drumpfskind, his supporters are a core of Americans who are having a hard time letting go of the past.

And they maybe never will.

But in time they will just pass away.

152
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:19:27pm

re: #151 freetoken

Societies change, and the orgainziation, the politics, of any society must too.

That the GOP is in the current grips of atavism doesn not mean it will always be so.

So beliefs, outdated beliefs, are having a hard time dying.

But people do die. We all do.

So while neo-racism is in the vogue with Drumpfskind, his supporters are a core of Americans who are having a hard time letting go of the past.

And they maybe never will.

But in time they will just pass away.

“I believe we are seeing the last throes of the insurgency”, about 150 years later.

153
nines09  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:20:25pm

re: #128 Dr. Matt

The GOP trolled the stupid, ignorant and racist and bigoted part of town for decades. Told all those bastards they counted. Then they turned to Mr. and Mrs. Stupid , Scared, and Afraid, and said they were there to scare them folks who made them feel stupid, scared and afraid. Said they were going to hurt those folks. not you, of course. THEM. There was a big tent. Real big. Marched people and ideas in and out and showed the faithful how afraid and scared and helpless they would be without the GOP. And they sat there smug and secure in the knowledge that this was a finely tuned machine. People voting against their own self interests. Parroting insane lines of babble, in lock step with the RNC and the GOP and the now under control sucker branch of the GOP, the Tea Party. Then Donald Trump, who knows a con when he sees one, steps through the door. The GOP laughs and throws Cruz and Bush, and Carson, and whoever those tortured souls who fell out of that clown car were on stage as fodder.. Suddenly all the softball pitches, and friendly no questions asked commenters were run over by a grifter who knows how to choke dimes out of people. Then it was theatre. Then it was fun. Then it was a body count as all the chosen lost. And Cheeto Combover Jesus walked to the front of the line and said, “I’m your man”.
And you think Game Of Thrones has holes? Man oh Manischewitz, what a whine.
Dear GOP; You built this. Drive it right into Lake Erie.

154
Sir John Barron  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:20:56pm

re: #150 Blind Frog Belly White

That’s why I didn’t believe Ramsey would finally die until the very end. This show has mocked my expectations too often.

155
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:21:21pm
156
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:22:51pm

re: #147 InfidelOfFreedom

How well do you think we will do with a one party system

157
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:24:57pm

re: #156 Great White Snark

How well do you think we will do with a one party system

That won’t last long. It never does.

158
The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:26:17pm

re: #122 darthstar

This Presidential campaign is getting to be about as satisfying as mocking a special needs child.

I want to apologize now for wishing Trump onto the GOP. They may suck as a party, but they didn’t deserve this and they’re turning our country into a laughing stock…what should be a historical election is going to be a hysterical farce.

You have nothing to apologize for because you never had control over their choices. Warnings were issued. Lots of them.

They invited Trump in 4 years ago, remember? They could have stepped away from his Birtherism and his slick bullshit at that time. But the same people pulled the trigger on hyping Benghazi, so it’s not like this decision was an island in an otherwise sound Romney campaign strategy.

And prior and after to that 4 year-old decision they’ve made other decisions that facilitated the base, and the contentless rhetorical style, that Trump is channeling so effectively.

Furthermore, you shouldn’t apologize because the conflict isn’t over, and the GOP is in no terms “destroyed,” nor has it truly rejected Trump’s thinking such that there’s a schism. This can only barely be described as conflict over style and taste; the candidates that Trump beat said very similar things about policy. Even about the fucking wall.

At this moment, the GOP is trying to capture and train Trump, not defeat him. They’re trying to appease his base, not reject their rather obvious white supremacy and contempt for basic rights that define the US. They are not fighting, they are negotiating.

If you hired an arsonist and he accidentally burns your building as well…you still hired an arsonist.

159
sagehen  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:26:18pm

re: #154 Sir John Barron

[Embedded content]

I knew it would happen, because I saw spoilers. Did not diminish the enjoyment at all.

160
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:26:27pm

So, this will be the second time this has happened in my lifetime.

161
Jay C  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:26:31pm

re: #156 Great White Snark

How well do you think we will do with a one party system

Depends on the party. If we can all end up like California, it might not be too bad….

162
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:26:49pm

re: #154 Sir John Barron

[Embedded content]

Yeah. Till the first dog took a bite, I wasn’t sure whether it would happen. So, did Jon stop short of pounding him to death because he didn’t want his sister to see him do it? Or to save the fun for her?

163
MsJ  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:27:14pm

re: #156 Great White Snark

How well do you think we will do with a one party system

Better than we are with the Republicans as the opposition party. You cannot have one party, an entire party, refusing to participate in democracy and government. If all they do is obstruct and ensure nothing happens, this is not healthy for our country.

164
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:28:03pm

re: #161 Jay C

Depends on the party. If we can all end up like California, it might not be too bad….

Oh, give us a few years. We’re perfectly capable of fucking up.

165
sagehen  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:28:35pm

re: #158 The Ghost of a Flea

At this moment, the GOP is trying to capture and train Trump, not defeat him. They’re trying to appease his base, not reject their their rather obvious white supremacy and contempt for basic rights that define the US. They are not fighting, they are negotiating.

Stages of grief:

1) Denial
2) Anger
3) Bargaining
4) Depression
5) Acceptance

166
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:28:39pm

re: #150 Blind Frog Belly White

Somebody said of GoT that the whole point is that it’s never telling the story you think it is. Fantasy literature generally has Good and Evil. Elves vs Orcs, Gandalf et al. vs Sauron, etc. You may have the occasional traitor. Good triumphs.

[Embedded content]

Sooner or later you have to deliver on some sort of satisfaction in the story.

167
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:29:06pm

Has anyone given a reason why Bernie is doing what he is doing? He is not going to run for President again I should think. Does he have a bunch of underlings ready to take up the flag and run in the future that would need these changes?

Or is it like many suspect, he is just asking for all this to be a continuing pain in the ass…a way to keep getting mentioned all through the convention, one way or another?

And as pointed out, he hasn’t even shown he is ready to commit to the Democratic party.

He surely has to realize he is wearing out his welcome. Obviously he is prepared to be an ass about it all. How does that help him, the party or anyone needing served by a politician? It doesn’t. So what good is he at this point? It may be time to be tough on Bernie and tell him to take off. Sure you would like to be nice about it, but paying nice takes both sides and Bernie hasn’t shown any give and take on anything.

The son of a gun doesn’t seem to even have the class to congratulate Hillary and support her. He is nothing but a complete disappointment and the worst thing to have happened to the Democrats this year.

168
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:29:54pm

re: #111 Charles Johnson

And those 20% of deadenders were never going to vote for her.

169
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:29:57pm

re: #163 MsJ

Better than we are with the Republicans as the opposition party. You cannot have one party, an entire party, refusing to participate in democracy and government. If all they do is obstruct and ensure nothing happens, this is not healthy for our country.

The opposition party should serve like the regular brakes on a car, to slow the majority down enough to think things through, build consensus, etc. It shouldn’t act like a parking brake, to keep the car from moving AT ALL!

170
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:31:01pm

re: #167 ObserverArt

Has anyone given a reason why Bernie is doing what he is doing?

He’s holding out for ambassador to Venezuela.

//

171
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:31:22pm

re: #156 Great White Snark

How well do you think we will do with a one party system

I trust the Democratic party to lead us through a time like this while the Republican party discovers what they want to be about, or if they just want to dissolve and let another party fill the void. Having a major governmental party that is fundamentally anti-government is simply not sustainable.

172
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:31:54pm

re: #131 Great White Snark

I’m with Darthstar, in spades. The consequences are going far beyond the GOP.

The US doesn’t deserve Trump.
The world doesn’t deserve Trump.
GOP does deserve Trump.

Sorry, it’s true.

173
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:31:59pm

re: #166 Aunty Entity Dragon

Sooner or later you have to deliver on some sort of satisfaction in the story.

The folks writing the show know that. It’s not clear Martin does. And one could argue that he’s done very well failing to do that.

174
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:32:52pm

re: #156 Great White Snark

How well do you think we will do with a one party system

There won’t be one. Horror vacui.

175
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:33:24pm

re: #170 wrenchwench

He’s holding out for ambassador to Venezuela.

//

“So what do we do about him?”

“For fuck’s sake, put him on the first plane to Venezuela!”

176
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:33:52pm

re: #154 Sir John Barron

[Embedded content]

As I have said elsewhere, Ramsey had become a serious problem in the story. He was sort of an evil Mary Sue character with wildly thick plot armor but without even the slightest hint of being remotely interesting. If you like stupendously evil sadists who are also improbably competent at virtually everything as well as being genius level practical psychologists, then Ramsey is your guy.

177
Aunty Entity Dragon  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:35:48pm

re: #167 ObserverArt

He surly has to realize he is wearing out his welcome.

I think you meant ‘surely’, but surly works pretty damned well for Bernie.

178
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:38:48pm

re: #156 Great White Snark

How well do you think we will do with a one party system

Look at California. We only turned around our deficit problem and got solid, effective governance once we got Dem supermajorities in both State Houses and a Dem Governor. There’s a point where we’re far better off effectively not having to deal with the GOP at all than dealing with the current GOP.

179
The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:40:33pm

re: #165 sagehen

Stages of grief:

1) Denial
2) Anger
3) Bargaining
4) Depression
5) Acceptance

Not relevant to what I’m saying, because they’re not grieving.

The people “mourning” are the people who had a sense that their party was still intellectual and not reliant on hyperbole and dogwhistles: it’s loss of face—shame, not bereavement. Trump is…embarassing.

180
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:40:44pm

re: #176 Aunty Entity Dragon

As I have said elsewhere, Ramsey had become a serious problem in the story. He was sort of an evil Mary Sue character with wildly thick plot armor but without even the slightest hint of being remotely interesting. If you like stupendously evil sadists who are also improbably competent at virtually everything as well as being genius level practical psychologists, then Ramsey is your guy.

It does make you wonder just how far off Martin’s course the show has gone.

I would note that in this series, the more ruthless one is, the greater the success one seems to meet, until it all goes horribly wrong. Makes you wonder when Walder Frey’s going to get his. Or maybe, just to mess with us, he dies quietly in his bed, or goes out banging his Nth teenage bride.

181
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:40:56pm

re: #172 Nyet

The US doesn’t deserve Trump.
The world doesn’t deserve Trump.
GOP does deserve Trump.

Sorry, it’s true.

House Trump will get sorted out at the Red Convention.

182
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:41:51pm

re: #172 Nyet

The US doesn’t deserve Trump.
The world doesn’t deserve Trump.
GOP does deserve Trump.

Sorry, it’s true.

I still say the problems we are seeing in our system are still reflective of the overall problems with politics in this country. Yes, we are representative government. So many crazy people they would actually pay attention to a Trump. So many crazy people Trump used them to get to the nomination.

It’s not as if Trump just popped up and didn’t get voted into this mess.

We need to fix our voting public. That is going to need better education, a real investigative media practicing real journalism and both parties actually looking to help this country instead of one feeding the crazy that has come to bite it in the ass.

So yeah, the Republicans brought this shit on themselves. They made Trump and they need to know why and suffer the consequences so they actually learn something from it.

183
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:41:59pm

re: #168 Nyet

And those 20% of deadenders were never going to vote for her.

Most of them probably didn’t even vote. They just answered a poll and said they had supported Sanders. The BoB movement is long on talk but notoriously absent when it comes to actually doing anything.

184
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:42:59pm

re: #177 Aunty Entity Dragon

I think you meant ‘surely’, but surly works pretty damned well for Bernie.

Oops…typing too fast and this is a non-spell checker issue. Thanks!

185
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:44:45pm
186
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:45:13pm

re: #181 Decatur Deb

House Trump will get sorted out at the Red Convention.

I suppose it’s a GoT reference. Haven’t seen, sorry.

187
lawhawk  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:46:04pm

re: #186 Nyet

Here’s a hint. There Will Be Blood.

188
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:46:31pm

re: #181 Decatur Deb

House Trump will get sorted out at the Red Convention.

Everything will seem to be going well, then the doors are all barred and the band starts playing “Happy Days Are Here Again”…..

189
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:46:31pm

re: #186 Nyet

I suppose it’s a GoT reference. Haven’t seen, sorry.

Irish family celebration, but with crossbows.

190
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:47:20pm

re: #187 lawhawk

Also nope.

191
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:49:35pm

re: #178 goddamnedfrank

Look at California. We only turned around our deficit problem and got solid, effective governance once we got Dem supermajorities in both State Houses and a Dem Governor. There’s a point where we’re far better off effectively not having to deal with the GOP at all than dealing with the current GOP.

I do, for the record, recognize that Jerry Brown is an almost uniquely qualified man to be leading California through these last two terms. A big part of why the current recipe works is because he’s so fiscally pragmatic and willing to veto all kinds of shit he thinks the State can’t afford. We aren’t going to be able to swap in just any other Democrat and get the same results.

192
InfidelOfFreedom  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:50:05pm

And Trump sold some hats.

193
The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:50:22pm

re: #156 Great White Snark

How well do you think we will do with a one party system

We have close to a one-party system right now, since one party will do NO business with the other. The GOP are not doing politics anymore, and haven’t since Obama was elected.

The blanket block on appointments of judges and cabinet positions should be the alarm that we are no longer in normal partisan push-and-pull.

The gutting of state-level budgets while more and more concealing the procedures of determining funding—that should be even more alarming, since it’s masking what they do, even from their supporters.

That is rigging the game in ways that influence all Americians lives; it is social engineering and “judicial activism” and overreach.

The GOP is no longer a conservative party. It is a political organization attempting to re-make America in a way that reflects the reactionary beliefs of a small, powerful minority, and to limit transparency and franchise such that noone can complain.

194
Bass Reeves  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:50:38pm

re: #182 ObserverArt

I’m not sure it’s a ‘we’ problem. Democrats have our own issues, but none of those issues involves feeding misleading information to Republican voters for 50 years. Democrats can’t fix the Republican party, mostly because the Republican party is working as intended.

195
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:51:21pm

re: #189 Decatur Deb

Irish family celebration, but with crossbows.

Speaking of bows….

One aggravating thing, for an archer like myself, was that while the Bolton forces had longbows, the Wildlings had what appeared to be composite recurve bows. My affection for the English Long Bow aside, composite recurve bows can throw an arrow a lot farther. The Wildlings should have been able to hit the Boltons from outside the Bolton’s range.

And if Rickon hadn’t been stupid, he’d have zigged randomly every couple seconds. But he was always arrowfodder.

196
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:51:28pm

re: #192 InfidelOfFreedom

NEW: Clinton super PAC @prioritiesUSA raised $12.1 million in May, its best month yet in 2016. $52 million on hand.

And Trump sold some hats.

That Citizens United snake has two heads.

197
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:51:57pm

Just because you need a second party doesn’t mean you need the GOP. It’s as illogical as saying, well, we have only one party and we need a second one, so any will do, so let’s take a look at NSDAP.

198
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:52:46pm

re: #196 Decatur Deb

That Citizens United snake has two heads.

One newly woke.

199
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:52:48pm

re: #195 Blind Frog Belly White

Speaking of bows….

[Embedded content]

“Zig-zag” is trending today.

200
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:53:55pm

re: #199 Decatur Deb

“Zig-zag” is trending today.

Or, for those of us old enough to remember The Inlaws, “Serpentine!”

201
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:53:55pm
202
Testy Toad T  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:56:02pm

re: #197 Nyet

Just because you need a second party doesn’t mean you need the GOP. It’s as illogical as saying, well, we have only one party and we need a second one, so any will do, so let’s take a look at NSDAP.

If Cleveland fell into a bottomless pit, the Blue Dogs would split off in a nanosecond and we’d have reasonable back-and-forth discourse and the world would keep turning.

Or restart turning, as the case may be.

203
Skip Intro  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:56:44pm

re: #149 The Vicious Babushka

Now YOU can own the fabulous YOOGE diamond ring that Donald Trump gave to his Wife #2! Only $250,000 SUCH A DEAL.

[Embedded content]

Is it real?

204
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:56:52pm

re: #202 Testy Toad T

Or have the Berners split, and have a new “left” party.

205
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:57:47pm

re: #203 Skip Intro

Is it real?

If it’s part of a wedding set, it’s defective.

206
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 2:59:00pm

re: #143 Great White Snark

What has convinced you, despite what Obama and Biden and others have told us that only the GOP is being damaged by that candidate? Were they full of crap when they said so?

There’s a big difference between saying the GOP deserves Trump (true) and that Trump is only damaging the GOP (false).

207
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:00:30pm

re: #166 Aunty Entity Dragon

Sooner or later you have to deliver on some sort of satisfaction in the story.

Two of the best cartoons on Cartoon Network, Adventure Time and Steven Universe, have stated that there’s no overarching story that they are sticking to. They tell a story, and sometimes tell another story to fill in some gaps the first story left. One of the best back stories anywhere occurred on Adventure Time is the one between Simon the Ice King and Marcelline the Vampire Queen. And the shows creators made the back story just to explain why one episode had the two of them singing together.

Edited for clarity.

208
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:04:16pm

re: #178 goddamnedfrank

Look at California. We only turned around our deficit problem and got solid, effective governance once we got Dem supermajorities in both State Houses and a Dem Governor. There’s a point where we’re far better off effectively not having to deal with the GOP at all than dealing with the current GOP.

Precisely. The GOP has become utterly toxic and useless. Bipartisan compromise in this situation is like cooking a steak and asking how much ground glass, shit and arsenic should be added to make it a properly ‘centrist’ steak.

209
KGxvi  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:04:45pm

re: #203 Skip Intro

Is it real?

In the sense that you can see and hold it, yes, it’s real. If you mean is it genuine and will it hold up upon appraisal…

Donald Trump Gave Charlie Sheen Fake Platinum Cufflinks - The Graham Norton Show

210
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:05:40pm

re: #193 The Ghost of a Flea

We have close to a one-party system right now, since one party will do NO business with the other. The GOP are not doing politics anymore, and haven’t since Obama was elected.

The blanket block on appointments of judges and cabinet positions should be the alarm that we are no longer in normal partisan push-and-pull.

The gutting of state-level budgets while more and more concealing the procedures of determining funding—that should be even more alarming, since it’s masking what they do, even from their supporters.

That is rigging the game in ways that influence all Americians lives; it is social engineering and “judicial activism” and overreach.

The GOP is no longer a conservative party. It is a political organization attempting to re-make America in a way that reflects the reactionary beliefs of a small, powerful minority, and to limit transparency and franchise such that noone can complain.

When we say one party system, we’re generally talking about one party controlling or at least influencing the levers of power. Right now, we still have two parties in charge, even if all one party is doing is shooting holes in the floor of the canoe.

211
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:06:36pm

re: #204 Nyet

Or have the Berners split, and have a new “left” party.

Which I could safely join, having spread the TPGOP ashes over George Wallace’s grave.

212
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:11:00pm

I’d be happy to see the financial conservatives drop the hatred, religiosity, militarism & gun fucking and become a more data driven, pragmatic, center right party fixated on finding practical solutions designed towards eliminating most of the national debt.

I still wouldn’t join them but that would be a much healthier partner to deal with in terms of our being able to afford many of Sanders’ better ideas like universal healthcare and higher education.

213
Belafon  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:11:22pm

re: #211 Decatur Deb

Which I could safely join, having spread the TPGOP ashes over George Wallace’s grave.

I wouldn’t mind a going forward party (the Democrats) and a going forward faster party (the split), though I would probably remain a Democrat. I suspect that won’t last long because of the conservatives.

The one thing that will need to happen is to split the business wing of the Republican party from the Conservative wing. I could see business joining the Democrats, but where will the conservatives go, especially since they still have a lot of electoral power.

214
wrenchwench  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:12:51pm

re: #194 Bass Reeves

I’m not sure it’s a ‘we’ problem. Democrats have our own issues, but none of those issues involves feeding misleading information to Republican voters for 50 years. Democrats can’t fix the Republican party, mostly because the Republican party is working as intended.

Something often overlooked.

215
KGxvi  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:12:57pm

re: #202 Testy Toad T

If Cleveland fell into a bottomless pit, the Blue Dogs would split off in a nanosecond and we’d have reasonable back-and-forth discourse and the world would keep turning.

Or restart turning, as the case may be.

There’s a hellmouth in Cleveland, which makes me wonder if Trump is a real life version of the Sunnydale mayor. I mean, honestly, would anyone be surprised if Trump turned into a giant snake/lizard/dinosaur/demon thing halfway through his acceptance speech?

216
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:14:18pm

re: #212 goddamnedfrank

I’d be happy to see the financial conservatives drop the hatred, religiosity, militarism & gun fucking and become a more data driven, pragmatic, center right party fixated on finding practical solutions designed towards eliminating most of the national debt.

I still wouldn’t join them but that would be a much healthier partner to deal with in terms of our being able to afford many of Sanders better ideas like universal healthcare and higher education.

That would pretty much be the Republicans as they were before the southern strategy and their embrace of every other kind of political crankery on the continent that was consistent with lowering taxes on rich Birchers.

217
ObserverArt  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:15:28pm

re: #194 Bass Reeves

I’m not sure it’s a ‘we’ problem. Democrats have our own issues, but none of those issues involves feeding misleading information to Republican voters for 50 years. Democrats can’t fix the Republican party, mostly because the Republican party is working as intended.

I meant we as a collective of politics in this country…a part of the representative government.

And yes “we” Democrats do have some issues that fit into this whole mess.

The Democrats often let the Republicans get away with the bad crazy. It happens when some on the party ran away from Obama in the mid-terms and even in the 2012 general election to some degree.

Many Democrats allowed the Sanders mess.

The Democrats have to be leaders in the education of politics process too.

So you are right the Republicans put much on it themselves, the Democrats just need to keep on them instead of letting it go on. Democratic politicians need to be tough and many times just are not tough enough. In my opinion.

218
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:20:57pm
219
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:23:31pm

re: #215 KGxvi

There’s a hellmouth in Cleveland, which makes me wonder if Trump is a real life version of the Sunnydale mayor. I mean, honestly, would anyone be surprised if Trump turned into a giant snake/lizard/dinosaur/demon thing halfway through his acceptance speech?

Almost mounted the YT clip of Thulsa Doom’s transformation, but too NSFW for people at work/public.

220
The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:26:17pm

re: #219 Decatur Deb

Conan the Barbarian - 21 - The Kitchen/The Orgy

Just the soundtrack.

(Seriously. It is such a great score, and the section “The Orgy” is just the best.)

221
Nojay UK  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:26:36pm

re: #215 KGxvi

I mean, honestly, would anyone be surprised if Trump turned into a giant snake/lizard/dinosaur/demon thing halfway through his acceptance speech?

That would probably be worth a five percent bump in his polling.

222
Skip Intro  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:27:33pm
223
gocart mozart  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:28:34pm
224
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:28:52pm

I am wishing him all the best in this endeavor:

225
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:30:45pm

re: #220 The Ghost of a Flea

[Embedded content]

Just the soundtrack.

(Seriously. It is such a great score, and the section “The Orgy” is just the best.)

Just previewed the clip. The difference in Sandahl Bergman’s expression and Arnold’s when they see the decadence is a riot.

226
KingKenrod  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:30:58pm

re: #220 The Ghost of a Flea

[Embedded content]

Just the soundtrack.

(Seriously. It is such a great score, and the section “The Orgy” is just the best.)

I own about 10 soundtracks, that’s one of them. It’s terrific!

227
KingKenrod  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:31:27pm
228
The Ghost of a Flea  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:34:21pm

re: #225 Decatur Deb

Just previewed the clip. The difference in Sandahl Bergman’s expression and Arnold’s when they see the decadence is a riot.

It is such a fun movie.

I realize James Earl Jones is Darth Vader for so many people, but Thulsa Doom was just great.

229
Shimshon  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:34:59pm

re: #212 goddamnedfrank

I’d be happy to see the financial conservatives drop the hatred, religiosity, militarism & gun fucking and become a more data driven, pragmatic, center right party fixated on finding practical solutions designed towards eliminating most of the national debt.

I still wouldn’t join them but that would be a much healthier partner to deal with in terms of our being able to afford many of Sanders’ better ideas like universal healthcare and higher education.

The difficulty with that is they need to hide behind all those beliefs you mention in the first sentence beacuse it is how they keep their pro corporate policies hidden. I’m pro gun because freedom! No it’s because the NRA pays them. Same with religious and military worship, religion is a distraction to justify their hatred of others and military contractors hand out money like Exxon does.

230
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:36:22pm

re: #149 The Vicious Babushka

Now YOU can own the fabulous YOOGE diamond ring that Donald Trump gave to his Wife #2! Only $250,000 SUCH A DEAL.

[Embedded content]

Uh huh. GIA cert or its glass.

231
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:39:07pm

White Busters still not getting it.

232
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:39:13pm

re: #161 Jay C

Depends on the party. If we can all end up like California, it might not be too bad….

We also have LAUSD, shattered roads, a public pension crisis, ill maintained deltas around the state capitol and Loretta Sanchez. And if trade falls, so does our economy.

233
Stanley Sea  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:41:04pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

White Busters still not getting it.

[Embedded content]

She’s a flat out racist. GAH

234
Wendell Zurkowitz ((slave to the waffle light))  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:42:33pm

re: #52 Kragar

BREAKING: Man tried to grab cop’s gun to kill Trump, feds say

If we ban guns, killers will simply steal them from cops!!!

235
HappyWarrior  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:43:50pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

White Busters still not getting it.

[Embedded content]

Jesus? The Transatlantic slave trade? Moonbats showing that they can be right up there with right wing nuts with their lack of empathy and understanding of history.

236
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:44:59pm

re: #212 goddamnedfrank

I’d be happy to see the financial conservatives drop the hatred, religiosity, militarism & gun fucking and become a more data driven, pragmatic, center right party fixated on finding practical solutions designed towards eliminating most of the national debt.

I still wouldn’t join them but that would be a much healthier partner to deal with in terms of our being able to afford many of Sanders’ better ideas like universal healthcare and higher education.

If they were data-driven, they wouldn’t be financial conservatives. Strip out the SoCon nonsense from Conservative Economics, and you have a failed hypothesis. It’s got no predictive value.

237
HappyWarrior  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:45:01pm

The problem is the right has gone apeshit. John Kasich is what “passes” for a moderate Republican in 2016 and his record is just as if not more right wing than Trump or Cruz or Rubin’s.

238
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:45:15pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

Because police brutality is OK if it’s against the people you don’t agree with politically./

239
HappyWarrior  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:46:30pm

re: #236 Blind Frog Belly White

If they were data-driven, they wouldn’t be financial conservatives. Strip out the SoCon nonsense from Conservative Economics, and you have a failed hypothesis. It’s got no predictive value.

I agree with this. Conservative economics is a bunch of bullshit. Ironically the Republican presidents that were probably best at managing the economy were ones like Eisenhower. The problem is today to be an economic conservative today in Republican politics, you have to oppose all tax increases, support all tax cuts, and support any cuts to “entitlements.”

240
Great White Snark  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:46:34pm

re: #178 goddamnedfrank

With a leading fiscally conservative governor. Not a coincidence. The deficit got turned around by Jerry on what in broad terms were Arnolds reforms. Dem partisanship delayed the fix for years. Crediting Dems like Gavin Newsome for that fix is laughably inaccurate.

241
Nyet  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:47:56pm

Thankfully, Bernie’s Tea Party isn’t anywhere near the GOP one in idiocy.
In the sense: yes, 45% voted for him, but now most of them will vote for Hillary. Whereas most of the TPGOP would have thrown a tantrum.
So there’s that. Even most of our “democratic socialist” left is tolerable. And there are some deadenders, but I wouldn’t even call them “ours”.

242
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:47:59pm

re: #239 HappyWarrior

I agree with this. Conservative economics is a bunch of bullshit. Ironically the Republican presidents that were probably best at managing the economy were ones like Eisenhower. The problem is today to be an economic conservative today in Republican politics, you have to oppose all tax increases, support all tax cuts, and support any cuts to “entitlements.”

And gut organized Labor at every turn.

243
klys (maker of Silmarils)  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:48:39pm
244
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:49:04pm

re: #231 goddamnedfrank

White Busters still not getting it.

[Embedded content]

Is she throwing in the trowel?

245
HappyWarrior  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:49:25pm

re: #242 Decatur Deb

And gut organized Labor at every turn.

Of course. Bitch about the “greedy” unions but not a word for the increasing wealth disparity that has been existing since the country turned right on economics in the early 80’s.

246
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:49:39pm

Feinstein’s no fly/no buy amendment fails.

247
freetoken  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:50:38pm

Another view of the Hogan-Gawker lawsuit:

You won’t be able to sue the next Gawker

Gawker is filing for bankruptcy. Peter Thiel, who is a Facebook board member and Donald Trump delegate, secretly sued Gawker in a proxy lawsuit and was successful.

[…]

248
HappyWarrior  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:50:44pm

re: #246 Backwoods_Sleuth

Feinstein’s no fly/no buy amendment fails.

I don’t get the point of having the no fly list if people on it can buy arms. I agree that the list needs to be fixed but at the same time, you have a terrorist watch list and the people on it are still allowed to buy guns? That just doesn’t seem right to me.

249
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:51:18pm

re: #244 Blind Frog Belly White

Is she throwing in the trowel?

I tried making a living as an archaeologist, but I threw in the trowel.

250
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:51:44pm

re: #236 Blind Frog Belly White

If they were data-driven, they wouldn’t be financial conservatives. Strip out the SoCon nonsense from Conservative Economics, and you have a failed hypothesis. It’s got no predictive value.

Mostly true in terms of taxation, trickle down theory, gaming the Laffer Curve and suchlike. I was imagining a version of conservatism that might drastically reduce military spending, means tested Social Security, eliminated oil exploration subsidies and the second home mortgage deduction. In other words an imaginary version that actually focused on eliminating waste instead of just pretending to.

251
freetoken  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:54:09pm

Apparently it is International Yoga Day.

252
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:54:12pm

re: #246 Backwoods_Sleuth

Feinstein’s no fly/no buy amendment fails.

Failed 47-53

253
EPR-radar  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:55:30pm

re: #250 goddamnedfrank

Mostly true in terms of taxation, trickle down theory, gaming the Laffer Curve and suchlike. I was imagining a version of conservatism that might drastically reduce military spending, means tested Social Security, eliminate oil exploration subsidies and the second home mortgage deduction. In other words an imaginary version that actually focused on eliminating waste instead of just pretending to.

This version of conservatism would appear to exist in these posts, in David Brooks’ imagination, and nowhere else.

254
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:56:22pm

re: #252 Backwoods_Sleuth

Failed 47-53

That’s easily fixed, if people get off their asses in November.

255
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:57:03pm
256
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:57:09pm

re: #250 goddamnedfrank

Mostly true in terms of taxation, trickle down theory, gaming the Laffer Curve and suchlike. I was imagining a version of conservatism that might drastically reduce military spending, means tested Social Security, eliminate oil exploration subsidies and the second home mortgage deduction. In other words an imaginary version that actually focused on eliminating waste instead of just pretending to.

I’d like to see a brand of Economic Conservatism that looks at interest rates this low, looks at failing infrastructure, and says, “Holy shit! People are PAYING US to lend us money! Let’s fix this dump!”

A rusty, crumbling bridge too far, I suppose.

257
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:58:37pm

re: #256 Blind Frog Belly White

I’d like to see a brand of Economic Conservatism that looks at interest rates this low, looks at failing infrastructure, and says, “Holy shit! People are PAYING US to lend us money! Let’s fix this dump!”

A rusty, crumbling bridge too far, I suppose.

They can even call that economic conservatism if it helps get it passed.

258
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:59:24pm

re: #250 goddamnedfrank

Mostly true in terms of taxation, trickle down theory, gaming the Laffer Curve and suchlike. I was imagining a version of conservatism that might drastically reduce military spending, means tested Social Security, eliminate oil exploration subsidies and the second home mortgage deduction. In other words an imaginary version that actually focused on eliminating waste instead of just pretending to.

Then again I’d like to seen a Conservative who correctly interprets what it tells you about your position on an inverted U-shaped curve when decreasing X leads to decreased Y. It’s really pretty simple.

259
goddamnedfrank  Jun 20, 2016 • 3:59:51pm

re: #253 EPR-radar

This version of conservatism would appear to exist in these posts, in David Brooks’ imagination, and nowhere else.

I’d also get rid of the deduction on short term capital gains / gambling losses. If you want to reduce your taxable gains by your losses you would need to hold most investments for at least a year before selling them. This would eliminate a shitload of market volatility and gamesmanship. I might carve out exceptions for commodities brokers who actually represent interests capable of and intending to take delivery, but not for pure speculators who just fuck with markets because they can.

260
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:00:53pm

re: #257 Decatur Deb

They can even call that economic conservatism if it helps get it passed.

Yeah. My sister whines that Hillary Clinton isn’t a REAL Liberal, but I don’t give a flying crap about labels, because I think what she’s proposing might actually happen, and will probably work.

261
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:00:56pm

re: #156 Great White Snark

Era of Good Feelings

Even during the periods the USA was a one-party state, that did not last long, as there are always those opposed to whatever party is for or against.

The GOP as it exists today is not governing, nor is it compromising (the requirement of a two or more party system - you don’t get everything you want). If the GOP continues to remain unyielding to change or compromise, it will become irrelevant.

262
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:02:42pm

re: #249 Decatur Deb

I tried making a living as an archaeologist, but I threw in the trowel.

“Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?”
///

263
Decatur Deb  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:04:08pm

re: #262 Blind Frog Belly White

“Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?”
///

( That’s actually true. )

264
Blind Frog Belly White  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:05:16pm

re: #259 goddamnedfrank

I’d also get rid of the deduction on short term capital gains / gambling losses. If you want to reduce your taxable gains by your losses you would need to hold most investments for at least a year before selling them. This would eliminate a shitload of market volatility and gamesmanship. I might carve out exceptions for commodities brokers who actually represent interests capable of taking delivery, but not for pure speculators who just fuck with markets because they can.

So much of what happens in “investing” is only peripherally related to actual economic activity. Even the NYSE is all about trading shares that were issued long ago, rather than funding business investment.

And the folks who suggest that capital gains shouldn’t be taxed AT ALL? Holy hell! There’s a REASON we call it ‘Unearned Income’.

265
Donnie With The Good Hair (AKA Sophist)  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:08:13pm

re: #135 Big Beautiful Door

We should’ve learned better from how badly the Southern revolution worked out.

e list of people who should have learned a lesson from the Civil War is…extensive.

266
cat-tikvah  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:12:06pm

re: #127 EPR-radar

Every time I glance at a Charles Krauthammer whinge column bemoaning Trump it takes all my willpower not to send messages of “You built that. Own it.”

267
stpaulbear  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:12:09pm

re: #246 Backwoods_Sleuth

Feinstein’s no fly/no buy amendment fails.

Did it fail with over 50 votes?

268
cat-tikvah  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:13:23pm

re: #135 Big Beautiful Door

Apparently still considered the Northern War of Aggression by far too many.

269
Jebediah, RBG  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:13:52pm

re: #207 Belafon

One of the best back stories anywhere occurred on Adventure Time is the one between Simon the Ice King and Marcelline the Vampire Queen.

I love that they gave one of the most annoying, cluelessly destructive, psychotically selfish characters such a poignant history.

270
Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:13:55pm

re: #267 stpaulbear

Did it fail with over 50 votes?

The four motions required 60 votes.

271
Anymouse  Jun 20, 2016 • 4:24:10pm

re: #268 cat-tikvah

Apparently still considered the Northern War of Aggression by far too many.

Take back the narrative: The War of Southern Treason. The Dixie Swastika flag. &c

272
Shimshon  Jun 20, 2016 • 6:14:03pm

re: #250 goddamnedfrank

Mostly true in terms of taxation, trickle down theory, gaming the Laffer Curve and suchlike. I was imagining a version of conservatism that might drastically reduce military spending, means tested Social Security, eliminated oil exploration subsidies and the second home mortgage deduction. In other words an imaginary version that actually focused on eliminating waste instead of just pretending to.

Problem: Most of their voters rely on all those for income or to get/stay rich.


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