Why I Parted Ways With The Right

Opinion • Views: 147,503

1. Support for fascists, both in America (see: Pat Buchanan, Robert Stacy McCain, etc.) and in Europe (see: Vlaams Belang, BNP, SIOE, Pat Buchanan, etc.)

2. Support for bigotry, hatred, and white supremacism (see: Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter, Robert Stacy McCain, Lew Rockwell, etc.)

3. Support for throwing women back into the Dark Ages, and general religious fanaticism (see: Operation Rescue, anti-abortion groups, James Dobson, Pat Robertson, Tony Perkins, the entire religious right, etc.)

4. Support for anti-science bad craziness (see: creationism, climate change denialism, Sarah Palin, Michele Bachmann, James Inhofe, etc.)

5. Support for homophobic bigotry (see: Sarah Palin, Dobson, the entire religious right, etc.)

6. Support for anti-government lunacy (see: tea parties, militias, Fox News, Glenn Beck, etc.)

7. Support for conspiracy theories and hate speech (see: Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Birthers, creationists, climate deniers, etc.)

8. A right-wing blogosphere that is almost universally dominated by raging hate speech (see: Hot Air, Free Republic, Ace of Spades, etc.)

9. Anti-Islamic bigotry that goes far beyond simply criticizing radical Islam, into support for fascism, violence, and genocide (see: Pamela Geller, Robert Spencer, etc.)

10. Hatred for President Obama that goes far beyond simply criticizing his policies, into racism, hate speech, and bizarre conspiracy theories (see: witch doctor pictures, tea parties, Birthers, Michelle Malkin, Fox News, World Net Daily, Newsmax, and every other right wing source)

And much, much more. The American right wing has gone off the rails, into the bushes, and off the cliff.

I won’t be going over the cliff with them.

Jump to bottom

1484 comments
1 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:51:49pm

Let us hope others will hear.

2 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:51:52pm

This isn't Goldwater's conservatism, and I resent them hijacking it.

3 jaunte  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:52:35pm

10 for 10 for rationalism. Congratulations, Charles, and thanks for staying on top of the cliff.

4 kellygrrrl  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:53:20pm

Bravo! I have a hard time understanding how anyone with a semi-functioning brain, and soul, could possibly remain a rightwinger.

the same thing happened to me with Christianity.
it's difficult, I know, but far less difficult than attempting to justify the hypocrisy.

5 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:53:40pm

Cheers!

6 Cheeseland  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:54:24pm

This sounds like liberal conservatism, or conservative liberalism.

Mostly it just trying to avoid going of the far right cliff but you have to watch out for the cliff on the other side as well.

7 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:55:04pm

Why, again, exactly do we lump tens and hundreds of different issues, into two camps, and call them "left" and "right"?

8 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:57:04pm

re: #6 Cheeseland

Actually- it used to once be called Conservatism, and we had a few leaders of the movement. We called the Goldwater, Buckley and Reagan.

I'm glad they can't see this.

9 jaunte  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:57:27pm

re: #7 cliffster

Bilateral symmetry is built into us.

10 Cheeseland  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:57:40pm

re: #7 cliffster

Why, again, exactly do we lump tens and hundreds of different issues, into two camps, and call them "left" and "right"?

Electoral politics.

11 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:58:10pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

Problem is, the newest generation (myself included) hasn't seen anything but this. Thats going to be a major problem.

12 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:58:26pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

Actually- it used to once be called Conservatism, and we had a few leaders of the movement. We called the Goldwater, Buckley and Reagan.

I'm glad they can't see this.

If any of those three were still alive and competent, this crackup would not be as bad, as they could read some of the crazies out of respectability.

13 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:58:30pm

re: #9 jaunte

Yup. I suppose if we were starfish we might divide politics into 5 or more parts.

14 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:59:10pm

re: #7 cliffster

Why, again, exactly do we lump tens and hundreds of different issues, into two camps, and call them "left" and "right"?

Convenience. The dichotomy goes deeper than politics--Romantic/Classical,
Apollonian/Dionysian, and probably other elements I don't know or can't remember.

15 The Curmudgeon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 6:59:25pm

The two-party system has degenerated into a choice between rabid socialism and an especially nasty version of theocracy. Neither is acceptable (or American) and I don't see any signs that either party is going to reform itself.

16 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:00:01pm

re: #14 Decatur Deb

Convenience. The dichotomy goes deeper than politics--Romantic/Classical,
Apollonian/Dionysian, and probably other elements I don't know or can't remember.

Thanks for that brilliant analysis. ;)

17 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:01:29pm

re: #15 The Curmudgeon

The two-party system has degenerated into a choice between rabid socialism and an especially nasty version of theocracy. Neither is acceptable (or American) and I don't see any signs that either party is going to reform itself.

Oh please. There's nothing approaching 'rabid' socialism being propagated by the mainstream 'left'. There's milquetoast socialism. Corporate socialism.

The 'right' is owning the crazy right now.

18 Slim_Junior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:01:47pm

Charles, do you support the Democrats' agenda for healthcare "reform"? Forgive me if you've answered that before. I just wonder if you're closer to the Dems or Repubs on that one.

19 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:02:31pm

I consider myself a right-winger however I do not go so far right that would qualify me to be in that group. I am more of a Reagan Republican. Is there a place for me anywhere?

20 kreyagg  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:02:38pm

I always thought that "Conservatism" started going off the rails during the Regan years. Really, who started pandering to the religious extremists in the first place?

21 Mike in Boulder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:02:50pm

I couldn't agree more with your analysis and sentiment and I commend you for you stance.

22 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:03:58pm

I think this pretty much sums up the argument against giving large amounts of power to Washington. The more people governed by a single entity, the more exposed are the minorities within that people to oppression.

23 dartmydog  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:04:19pm

brilliant, brilliant!
though many of the conspiracy nuts who were anti-g w bush are now tuning into "republican sources" like glenn beck et al.
doesn't this go to prove that at the base of the conspiracy lot is a fear and mistrust of power over themselves.

24 bofhell  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:04:46pm

[I know, I've been quiet of late. I've actually had the audacity to be doing things in the real world. Shocking!]

The problem is not Charles or any of us following the far right (or the far left for that matter) off a cliff.

The problem is that they will drag the country over the cliff on their own.

25 averagecdn  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:04:49pm

LGF: A logic attack with a Mac!

still a fan, still visiting daily.

26 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:05:07pm

re: #19 NJDhockeyfan

I consider myself a right-winger however I do not go so far right that would qualify me to be in that group. I am more of a Reagan Republican. Is there a place for me anywhere?

Just the place that people like you and me can carve out for ourselves. We both come from relatively moderate-to-liberal states; perhaps we can help keep our own state parties from going over the falls.

27 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:05:12pm

re: #11 McSpiff

Problem is, the newest generation (myself included) hasn't seen anything but this. Thats going to be a major problem.

I don't know. The theocons are not as in control as they think:

Poll shows opening for GOP

The poll, published in a copyright story in Sunday's newspaper, says 43 percent of Iowans say they're conservative. That compares to 36 percent who call themselves moderate and 17 percent liberal. About 50 percent consider themselves fiscally conservative and 42 percent conservative on social issues.

Analysts say that could present an opening for Republicans, but the poll also shows former Republicans say by roughly 2-to-1 they left because the GOP seemed partisan and offered few new ideas.

I think at some point the fis-cons will regain the party, likely after the theocons get their asses handed to them in the next couple of elections. There is an opening for republicans to make ground, but this poll shows that it's the fis-cons who have that power to make a difference.

Starting not to care anymore. There is nowhere to go. The right doesn't want me and the left is no better.

28 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:05:15pm

re: #20 kreyagg

Really, who started pandering to the religious extremists in the first place?

Southern strategy

29 ryannon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:05:31pm

re: #14 Decatur Deb

Convenience. The dichotomy goes deeper than politics--Romantic/Classical,
Apollonian/Dionysian, and probably other elements I don't know or can't remember.

Coke and Pepsi.

30 Surabaya Stew  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:06:45pm

re: #19 NJDhockeyfan

I consider myself a right-winger however I do not go so far right that would qualify me to be in that group. I am more of a Reagan Republican. Is there a place for me anywhere?

Where's Ojoe with the Whig party when you need him?

31 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:07:14pm

Canada and the UK both have long traditions of centre-right sanity that wasn't reflexively anti government.

I don't know how the strain if it developed in the US was categorised. "Patrician Republicanism" maybe, was it?.

Canada
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

UK
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

32 hanoch  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:09:21pm

So you look at the Nancy Pelosis, Michael Moores, Al Frankens, Cindy Sheehans, Jimmy Carters and Al Sharptons of the world and you conclude that the left side of the political spectrum is where sanity and moderation exists? I can't understand this.

33 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:09:37pm

re: #31 wozzablog

Canada and the UK both have long traditions of centre-right sanity that wasn't reflexively anti government.

I don't know how the strain if it developed in the US was categorised. "Patrician Republicanism" maybe, was it?.

Canada
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

UK
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Canada has a very narrow political spectrum. Abortion, Gay marriage and public health care, are for the most part, off the table in mainstream politics.

34 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:09:43pm

re: #32 hanoch

Where does it say any of that?

35 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:10:03pm

The 10 reasons are why I feel at home here. They are exemplified in Charles' posts. I originally came to LGF for an alternative opinion, and what I found was an honest, moral and ethically decent blog. I've even defended LGF in real life conversation. I even got a leftist to check out LGF to see for herself that this isn't an extremist blog.

36 Surabaya Stew  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:10:15pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

Just the place that people like you and me can carve out for ourselves. We both come from relatively moderate-to-liberal states; perhaps we can help keep our own state parties from going over the falls.

That would be appreciated by non-Republicans very much. We need you guys to keep the Democrats and liberials honest.

37 jaunte  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:10:50pm

re: #32 hanoch

I didn't see that conclusion on the list.

38 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:11:10pm

re: #31 wozzablog

As indicated by KT above, in the US (contra UK) there is a regional dynamic that includes a religious element to it, as well as a racially charged one. Part of the defining elements of our politics here in the US has been due to the diversity of the populace, especially racial diversity.

39 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:11:40pm

re: #32 hanoch

So you look at the Nancy Pelosis, Michael Moores, Al Frankens, Cindy Sheehans, Jimmy Carters and Al Sharptons of the world and you conclude that the left side of the political spectrum is where sanity and moderation exists? I can't understand this.

Uh, what?

40 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:12:03pm

re: #30 Surabaya Stew

Where's Ojoe with the Whig party when you need him?

Give Me Back My Whig

41 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:12:05pm

re: #36 Surabaya Stew

That would be appreciated by non-Republicans very much. We need you guys to keep the Democrats and liberials honest.

Thank you for that. It helps. I had to go home early today with back spasms that still haven't stopped.

42 researchok  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:12:31pm

re: #32 hanoch

So you look at the Nancy Pelosis, Michael Moores, Al Frankens, Cindy Sheehans, Jimmy Carters and Al Sharptons of the world and you conclude that the left side of the political spectrum is where sanity and moderation exists? I can't understand this.

There are as many losers on the far left side of the political spectrum.

You missed the entire point of Charles' post.

43 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:13:30pm

re: #36 Surabaya Stew

That would be appreciated by non-Republicans very much. We need you guys to keep the Democrats and liberials honest.

Sorry- but is there some reason why republicans are responsible for cleaning their own house, and keeping yours clean too?

44 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:14:03pm

re: #32 hanoch

So you look at the Nancy Pelosis, Michael Moores, Al Frankens, Cindy Sheehans, Jimmy Carters and Al Sharptons of the world and you conclude that the left side of the political spectrum is where sanity and moderation exists? I can't understand this.

As you're a creationist, I wouldn't expect you to agree.

45 hanoch  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:14:42pm

re: #34 Sharmuta

He doesn't. But what other option is there? You can vote Republican or Democrat (or sometimes for some third party nobody if you are inclined to waste your vote).

46 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:14:56pm

Canada also has many fewer elected officials in general. I vote for Member of the Legislative Assembly (provincial), Member of Parliament(federal), City Counsellor, and school board member. No judges, prosecutors, sheriffs, dog catchers, etc. And I think this changes the overall political tone.

47 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:15:28pm

The haters are already tweeting about this.

48 The False God  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:16:02pm

I agree with 1, 2, 3, 4 (minus "climate change denialism," which is bollocks), 5, 6 (minus Fox News [the ENTIRE network?] and most of the tea parties), 7 (minus "climate deniers," as if someone that disagrees is on the same level as saying the Holocaust never happened [really, Charles?]), sort of 8, 9 (though I think that is more accepted in Europe than it is in the United States, as here I don't see much anti-Islamic sentiment, just anti-crazy people sentiment), sort of 10 (racism is a no no, but most of the "anti-Obama" things I see [minus birthirism, which is retarded] have a basis in reality, in that he DOES associate with very nasty people and is pretty much the most liberal president we've had in a long time).

That is why I am not a Republican. But I can't be a Democrat for obvious reasons, either.

That reason is because they are just as crazy, for similar and differing reasons. I weep for our future.

49 dartmydog  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:16:38pm

some comments i've read claim lgf is after the money as in traffic but if was true and charles wasn't just following his morality then why shrug off those millions of hits he would have gotten from the right wing blogosphere.

50 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:16:40pm

re: #45 hanoch

He doesn't. But what other option is there? You can vote Republican or Democrat (or sometimes for some third party nobody if you are inclined to waste your vote).

I voted in a primary for a person that got .2% of the vote for Senate once. I voted for my candidate, not if my side could win if person X went against person Z.

51 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:16:46pm

re: #42 researchok

There are as many losers on the far left side of the political spectrum.

You missed the entire point of Charles' post.

Why don't you explain it, then? If you reject the "right", are you embracing the "left"?

52 dartmydog  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:17:16pm

re: #47 Charles

Let them tweeet

53 jaunte  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:17:54pm

re: #45 hanoch

Support takes other forms than voting. The posted support that LGF lends or withholds from various tendencies of the right tends to urge conservatives into reconsidering their more radical impulses.

54 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:18:11pm

re: #32 hanoch

So you look at the Nancy Pelosis, Michael Moores, Al Frankens, Cindy Sheehans, Jimmy Carters and Al Sharptons of the world and you conclude that the left side of the political spectrum is where sanity and moderation exists? I can't understand this.

Actually, I don't think your examples are where it exists, nor do I suspect it is where Charle's exists. What made you draw that conclusion?

55 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:18:43pm

That will do it. I got tired of the homophobia in some of the blogs or sites. Breitbart being one place. From the constant sophomoric comments to the deranged haters.

Then there's the constant anti-atheism. Of course that doesn't mean they're open to other religions which is fairly obvious. If it isn't WASP™, it's not approved.

56 Slim_Junior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:18:55pm

Charles, is there anything you find objectionable about Obama's domestic policy, and if so, what is it? You say you "parted ways" with the right, but in what ways aside from the WOT were you ever really with them? I don't really see any.

57 hanoch  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:20:02pm

re: #54 Naso Tang

At the end of the day you have to pull the lever for someone.

58 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:20:09pm

re: #51 cliffster

Why don't you explain it, then? If you reject the "right", are you embracing the "left"?

That's ridiculous. I agree with most of what Charles wrote above and I embrace NONE of the far left ideals. Why would you say something like that?

59 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:20:13pm

re: #56 Slim_Junior

Charles, is there anything you find objectionable about Obama's domestic policy, and if so, what is it? You say you "parted ways" with the right, but in what ways aside from the WOT were you ever really with them? I don't really see any.

You only registered last month. How long have you been reading LGF?

60 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:20:14pm

re: #56 Slim_Junior

Charles, is there anything you find objectionable about Obama's domestic policy, and if so, what is it? You say you "parted ways" with the right, but in what ways aside from the WOT were you ever really with them? I don't really see any.

What has Obama passed, domestically?

61 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:20:24pm
62 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:20:41pm

re: #49 dartmydog

The meme that Charles does what he does for financial reasons has been floated about him since before some of the LGF stalkers who promoted it were even banned. It's one of the longest running memes about LGF, and it's simply not true, as some of those stalkers damn well know. But they don't let the truth get in the way of their hatred. Actually- they let nothing get in the way of their hatred, and it's pretty sick.

63 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:20:45pm

re: #7 cliffster

Why, again, exactly do we lump tens and hundreds of different issues, into two camps, and call them "left" and "right"?

Because "us and them" is easier than "shades of gray".

64 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:08pm

Heh. They are coming out of the woodwork on this one.

65 Surabaya Stew  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:25pm

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

Thank you for that. It helps. I had to go home early today with back spasms that still haven't stopped.

You're quite welcome, DF; Obama/Pelosi/Reed need an honest oppsition to ensure their policies don't go overboard. The GOP seems to be running away from that in most states, so whatever you and other Lizards can do to push them back on the right (no pun intended) track would be appreciated for real!

How did you hurt your back? I hope you feel better by tomorrow.

66 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:29pm

re: #61 joest1973

That was a weak ass flounce.

67 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:29pm

A song for the visiting Tweet-Dork Haters™

The Byrds - Drug Store Truck Drivin' Man

68 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:35pm

re: #56 Slim_Junior

Troll, full of sound and whining; signifying nothing

69 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:39pm

Are you classified as Republican?

Negative. I am a meat popsicle.

70 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:49pm

re: #61 joest1973

DEMOCRATS BAD, REPUBLICANS GOOD!

Man the two party system is boring sometimes...

71 researchok  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:21:58pm

re: #51 cliffster

Why don't you explain it, then? If you reject the "right", are you embracing the "left"?

No, you are not necessarily embracing the left if you reject the right. There is a reason there are registered Independent voters.

I suspect you'll see a lot more Independents now that the religious right have hijacked much of the conservative and Republican agenda. They have done a huge amount of damage to the right.

72 jaunte  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:22:07pm

re: #61 joest1973

See you in a few years after the democrats turn the country as we know it upside down.

Stalag might get tite.

73 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:22:16pm

re: #32 hanoch

You're reading something more into the post than is there. Don't assume. It's not polite.

74 armylaw  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:22:38pm

re: #35 eclectic infidel

The 10 reasons are why I feel at home here. They are exemplified in Charles' posts. I originally came to LGF for an alternative opinion, and what I found was an honest, moral and ethically decent blog. I've even defended LGF in real life conversation. I even got a leftist to check out LGF to see for herself that this isn't an extremist blog.

That's why I'm here.

Although personally I maintain that I am a conservative; these upstarts like Palin and Beck are hijacking and distorting my beliefs far, far beyond what they really were. I have to wonder what Goldwater and Reagan would think of the Teabaggers.

75 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:22:40pm

re: #61 joest1973

Not even an original flounce...no style points for that turd.

/don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out...

76 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:22:54pm

re: #56 Slim_Junior

GAZE

77 Slim_Junior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:23:06pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

You only registered last month. How long have you been reading LGF?

For a long time. Probably at least since 2003. Even with an RSS feed, I missed the registration window many, many times before one day finally hitting it at just the right time.

If you can answer my questions, feel free.

78 dartmydog  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:23:08pm

I can personally tell you that being of the jewish race and culture i've been raised to abhor the blood lust of race baiting. i am an avowed liberal and supported g w bush. i've followed the twists and turns of lgf over some time now and feel in the company of comrades here, folks of the same thoughts, philosophy and political bent as i. in canada we must also keep the socialist dragon at bay but at least here the (right wing) loonies are mostly in my wallet

79 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:23:13pm

re: #74 armylaw

That's why I'm here.

Although personally I maintain that I am a conservative; these upstarts like Palin and Beck are hijacking and distorting my beliefs far, far beyond what they really were. I have to wonder what Goldwater and Reagan would think of the Teabaggers.

I... I thought I was the only one!

80 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:23:17pm

re: #58 NJDhockeyfan

That's ridiculous. I agree with most of what Charles wrote above and I embrace NONE of the far left ideals. Why would you say something like that?

I didn't "say" anything, I asked a question, and a simple one at that.

81 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:23:28pm

A while back the NYTimes (I think) labeled LGF as "rigidly empiricist."

Did Charles' steady rejection of increasing craziness get anyone to reflect on the crazy? Will the now overt and explicit rejection of craziness from Charles get people to reflect on the crazy? I think not.

82 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:23:31pm

re: #66 Sharmuta

That was a weak ass flounce.

So subtle I didn't note it.

83 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:24:27pm

Could someone help me drag "joest1973" over to the grill? We need to grill him quick, because I predict more flouncing on this tread.

84 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:24:29pm

re: #72 jaunte

Stalag might get tite.

We musn't cave in to that kind of thinking.

85 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:24:31pm

re: #29 ryannon

Coke and Pepsi.

According to Sherman Alexie, Indians are divided Coke tribes, and Pepsi tribes. I can only conclude from the example of my husband that:

1. The Cherokee, or the Creek, or both, are a Coke tribe;
2. This tendency is either genetic or modeled early, or both,
3. Once fixed, the tendency, hell, driving need, to drink Coke and not Pepsi cannot be altered.

Unless his Scots-Irish ancestry is screwing up this exemplar, in which case I got nothing.

86 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:24:44pm

Charles, I have to say I agree with all 10 points.

Doesn't mean I'm gonna embrace the left. They have their own list as well.

Clowns to the left, Jokers to the right.

87 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:24:48pm

I was gonna hit the sack. Me awake now.

88 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:25:01pm

re: #81 EastSider

Will the now overt and explicit rejection of craziness from Charles get people to reflect on the crazy? I think not.

I already has for a lot of people here at LGF, so you'd be wrong.

89 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:25:15pm

I just retweeted this with a #tcot tag.

In your face.

90 Surabaya Stew  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:25:22pm

re: #43 Sharmuta

Sorry- but is there some reason why republicans are responsible for cleaning their own house, and keeping yours clean too?

Seeing how both parties run this country, it is to be assumed that an unhealthy GOP will end up infecting the Dems also. And that would be a disaster for the USA!

91 Claire  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:25:47pm

re: #81 EastSider

A while back the NYTimes (I think) labeled LGF as "rigidly empiricist."

Did Charles' steady rejection of increasing craziness get anyone to reflect on the crazy? Will the now overt and explicit rejection of craziness from Charles get people to reflect on the crazy? I think not.

Of course it will- it has already.

92 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:26:02pm

re: #87 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ditto, ah well. Sleep is for the weak.

93 Slim_Junior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:26:11pm

re: #68 Naso Tang

Troll, full of sound and whining; signifying nothing

Oh, really? I'm a troll? I think my questions are fair.

94 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:26:46pm

re: #90 Surabaya Stew

Seeing how both parties run this country, it is to be assumed that an unhealthy GOP will end up infecting the Dems also. And that would be a disaster for the USA!

chicken/egg.

95 UncleMonkey  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:27:06pm

Well said.

As a libertarian, I was never officially with the Right. But at least the Right used to present the illusion of refuge. Now...

Hopefully a mass exodus of independents will wake up the GOP and force them to return to their roots. Unfortunately, they seem determined to continue to be the party of bigots and theocrats. Which is very unfortunate for this country. We're all going to suffer greatly as a result of the direction the Right has chosen to pursue.

96 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:27:15pm

So... there are only two Goldwater conservatives left? Sad.

Do we get our own preserve?

97 Hawkins  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:27:39pm

re: #14 Decatur Deb

Convenience. The dichotomy goes deeper than politics--Romantic/Classical, Apollonian/Dionysian, and probably other elements I don't know or can't remember.

You are forgetting the critical dialectic: Tastes Great / Less Filling.

98 dartmydog  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:27:41pm

why don't the fiscal conservatives/social liberals come out of both the democratic and republican parties and mesh into one new one. in canada we successfully did this in the new conservative party headed by Harper

99 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:27:46pm

re: #80 cliffster

I didn't "say" anything, I asked a question, and a simple one at that.

How is rejecting the far right embracing the left?

100 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:27:51pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

Could someone help me drag "joest1973" over to the grill? We need to grill him quick, because I predict more flouncing on this tread.

My stand-up freezer will take a whole small/medium troll, or a side of a plus-sized one. Standing by.

101 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:28:22pm

re: #71 researchok

No, you are not necessarily embracing the left if you reject the right. There is a reason there are registered Independent voters.

I suspect you'll see a lot more Independents now that the religious right have hijacked much of the conservative and Republican agenda. They have done a huge amount of damage to the right.

But there is a very big problem: Huge number of issues. Two choices. That sucks.

"Well, would I rather have a giant bureaucracy set up to take money from me and give it to other people I don't know for reasons I don't approve, or tell people who are homosexual they aren't allowed to live their own life?"

Why do I have to make that choice?

That's stupid.

102 jaunte  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:28:24pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

I'm in!

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:29:07pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

So... there are only two Goldwater conservatives left? Sad.

Do we get our own preserve?

Is the other one male? Can we bring you back?

104 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:29:10pm

re: #98 dartmydog

You'd be the first person to ever label the conservative party, or Harper as a "social liberal". This is the leader who was most opposed to gay marriage for example.

105 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:29:23pm

re: #32 hanoch

re: #61 joest1973


Its going to be very VERY difficult for some people to understand that many peoples recent alienation from the far right is NOT about accepting democratic, liberal, leftist (not that all of these are synonomous) positions. Nor is it about the complete rejection of republican, conservative and "rightist" positions.

Its about rejecting hysteria, irrationality, anarchist, outmoded, racist, and quite frankly dangerous positions, speech and ideas that have the potential to do a lot of damage.

106 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:29:29pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

So... there are only two Goldwater conservatives left? Sad.

Do we get our own preserve?

Unless you can reproduce, you get your own case at the Natural History museum.

107 PAUL_MACDONALD  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:29:29pm

Nice to not be alone. I wrote something similar awhile back with regards to the Canuck right. There is some bad crazy from people who you wouldn't expect it from.

108 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:29:47pm

re: #99 NJDhockeyfan

How is rejecting the far right embracing the left?

Well, you tell me. I don't think it is.

109 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:30:12pm

re: #103 SanFranciscoZionist

Is the other one male? Can we bring you back?

Why? No one is interested in a Goldwater Conservative, it seems.

110 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:30:13pm

re: #99 NJDhockeyfan

How is rejecting the far right embracing the left?

It isn't, unless it's election day, we have a 2 party system for better or worse...

111 directorblue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:30:17pm

Charles, I would guess that the vast majority of the so-called center-right would agree with most of your tenets.

Mark Levin's Liberty & Tyranny is my personal blueprint of "conservatism". It steps through thousands of years of human experimentation with different forms of government and arrives at one inescapable conclusion:

While imperfect, the U.S. Constitution is the best form of government ever conceived. It protected the rights of the individual and limited the powers of the federal government. Over time (New Deal, Great Society, etc.), the firewalls of the Constitution were erased by activist judges, leaving us with the strange form of government we have today.

I can't remember if it even mentions pro-choice/pro-life -- that's a state's right issue (10th Amendment). The chapter on "Faith and the Founding" explains the intertwined relationship between Judeo-Christian beliefs and the government.

As for Buchanan, etc., I have nothing but disgust for that crew.

On Palin, I've never heard anything credible that would lead me to dismiss her as a conservative leader.

On global warming, I believe it's largely a financial scam. In 1987 I wrote about the World Rainforest Movement's identification of the IPCC as a bunch of businessmen (see Pedro Moura-Costa) who were out to enrich themselves -- and succeeded. Even the WRM (hardly a right-wing group) said the IPCC report was a "fraud". Until we use open source science, open algorithms, open data, I find it difficult to believe the the U.S. has any impact on climate change. Visiting China puts our country into perspective.

112 Caboose  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:30:27pm

Uhhh, so you won't be returning that donation form to the RNC with a significant dollar contribution???

;-)

Hey, GOP, are you reading that list and taking notes? You better and the sooner, the better!

(I always figured that Charles was center-left with a certain amount of empathy for some of the causes on the right. No wonder that the crazy that has taken over the GOP has driven that empathy out; I no longer identify with the right or the GOP and have gone back to being a center-right Independent. I don't think that I'll ever be able to consider joining the Democrats, as their hate and crazy was there long before the GOP's, so I will wander around in the mushy middle and hope that i can find a place that i feel comfortable with.

113 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:30:29pm

re: #26 Dark_Falcon

Count me in there gentelmen.

114 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:32:10pm

123 retweets already for this. Expect fireworks.

115 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:32:28pm

re: #74 armylaw

That's why I'm here.

Although personally I maintain that I am a conservative; these upstarts like Palin and Beck are hijacking and distorting my beliefs far, far beyond what they really were. I have to wonder what Goldwater and Reagan would think of the Teabaggers.

That's the thing that the haters and outsiders don't understand or want to acknowledge about Charles and LGF...while some of us may self-identify as "conservative", not all do.

In the bigger scheme of things, we here at LGF aren't just conservatives, liberals, or centrists, we're anti-idiotarians...we don't put up with any bullshit, we expect logic and reason, and we still fact-check people's asses.

116 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:32:41pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

So... there are only two Goldwater conservatives left? Sad.

Do we get our own preserve?

Not Goldwater but William F. Buckley's brother Jim Buckley and Edmund Muskie:

He [Muskie] could convince Senator Jim Buckley to cosponsor the 1972 Clean Water Act. Buckley came to understand the relationship between his conservative political philosophy and the concept of conservation under Muskie's tutelage. As a result, he became an articulate supporter of the landmark 1972 Clean Water Act. As Buckley said: "I know of no situation in private life where a newcomer would have been accorded greater consideration, or where differences of opinion would have been given a fairer hearing than that which was characteristic of both the Committee on Public Works and its Subcommittee on Air and Water Pollution. I feel particularly fortunate to be a member of both and to have been able to work with the two chairmen and the committee staff, who have made so great an effort to accommodate differences of approach to common objectives."

Thought it was good to re-post this excerpt as reflection and comparison as well as a point of reflection.

They don't make them like they used to and that includes the Buckleys and Goldwater.

117 PAUL_MACDONALD  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:32:54pm

re: #104 McSpiff

He left the Reform party because they wanted to ensconce "no gay marriage, ever" in the party constitution. He is socially to the left of nearly every US politician.

118 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:33:38pm

I'm conservative by nature so radicals and reactionaries of any stripe disturb me.

119 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:34:10pm

re: #118 MandyManners

I'm conservative by nature so radicals and reactionaries of any stripe disturb me.

Heh, "radical conservative" is indeed an oxymoron, no?

120 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:34:15pm

re: #63 SanFranciscoZionist

the "Right" doesn't do Nuance.

121 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:34:26pm

re: #88 Sharmuta

I already has for a lot of people here at LGF, so you'd be wrong.

Maybe. I meant that as a criticism of intractable people on the far right, and certainly not as a criticism of Charles.

I think, in general what has happened here in past months is that the people who are incapable of rational thought have left or flounced, while those who can think for themselves have stayed.

122 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:34:34pm

re: #118 MandyManners

I'm conservative by nature so radicals and reactionaries of any stripe disturb me.

Bingo. They can all piss up a rope!

;o)

123 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:34:38pm

re: #117 PAUL_MACDONALD

The entire Canadian political spectrum exists to the left of every American Politician id argue.

124 worknhard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:35:13pm

All I can say Is, wow.

125 UncleMonkey  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:35:14pm

re: #98 dartmydog

why don't the fiscal conservatives/social liberals come out of both the democratic and republican parties and mesh into one new one. in canada we successfully did this in the new conservative party headed by Harper

Well, the Libertarian Party could have served that purpose. But instead they've become a haven for failed GOP candidates and lunatics.

It's incredibly frustrating. For someone like myself, there's really nowhere left to turn.

126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:35:21pm

Still a whole bunch of tihngs I don't like about the left, thank you very much.

127 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:35:29pm

re: #96 Sharmuta

Hang on a minute. Say three please. :)

128 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:35:35pm

re: #114 Charles

123 retweets already for this. Expect fireworks.

We'll be ready and waiting...

;-P

129 captdiggs  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:35:47pm

Just beware of being the pendulum that swings too far, Charles.
I hear what you're saying.
I'm a centrist leaning right despite what a couple of you may think. I voted Clinton, twice, voted McCain the last time 'round, support women's choice, a clear separation between church and state, equality of genders, races and all peaceful beliefs. I supported Obama's decision on stem cell research, and was pissed at Bush's religious decision on the same subject.
But a person can swing too far left or right as the right side examples you give do show.
As I said, beware of a swing too far. There's good reason that most of the country is closer to the center than either extreme.

And I say that with all good wishes

130 California Observer  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:35:55pm

Charles,

When Bush was president, the radical left was very vocal about their loony ideas, much like the far right is today. It's not like the far right didn't exist under Bush or before 9/11, or there were no creationist Republicans. They just weren't as vocal and angry as they are now that Obama is president. So parting ways with the right due to someone like Glenn Back makes no more sense than parting the left due to Keith Olbermann. Racism and bigotry are on both extremes of the political spectrum. So why not stick to your principles, whatever they are, fully realizing that there are crazies that are going to be on your side of the political spectrum no matter which side you are on? I'd like to believe that there's much more diversity of ideas in conservative movement than what you described in your post.

131 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:36:01pm

re: #126 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Things" either.

132 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:36:16pm

re: #124 worknhard

Wow, what? Please expound...

133 PAUL_MACDONALD  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:36:23pm

re: #123 McSpiff

I would agree.

134 davesax  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:36:45pm

re: #114 Charles

Charles, I never saw you as a "right winger". I always viewed you (and still do) as a centrist.

My only wish is that you'd blog more about radical Islam and Israel like you used to, because there really aren't non-Israel blogs out there that have filled the vacuum you left. I miss your hawkish, but rational, voice.

But, it's your blog. And I'm still reading.

Later...

135 dartmydog  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:36:49pm

re: #104 McSpiff

Hes personally against it yes! BUT isn't the true definition of a social liberal not one who agrees with all other opinions but one who is permissive in his rule. Harper has never shut down gay marriage even though he may personally disagree whole-heartily.

136 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:36:55pm

In reading between the lines of Charles' 10 point manifesto, it struck me that there are a few high profile people on the right that are not mentioned. That said, it is hard for ANY serious politician from the right to avoid contact with FOX News, since none of the other networks seem interested in giving significant air time to anyone to the right of Joe Lieberman. So while FOX news certainly has its bad actors, I have enough respect for the network that I won't throw it under the bus ... yet. At any rate, unless I am mistaken (and correct me if I'm wrong, Charles), it seems that Mitt Romney and Rudy Giuliani may still be acceptable Republicans since they have distanced themselves from the crazies. Romney was always my prefered choice for POTUS from the recent batch of Republicans.

137 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:37:23pm

re: #57 hanoch

At the end of the day you have to pull the lever for someone.

Don't count on any for you, at the end of the day.

138 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:38:12pm

Lotta socks

139 researchok  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:38:20pm

re: #101 cliffster

But there is a very big problem: Huge number of issues. Two choices. That sucks.

"Well, would I rather have a giant bureaucracy set up to take money from me and give it to other people I don't know for reasons I don't approve, or tell people who are homosexual they aren't allowed to live their own life?"

Why do I have to make that choice?

That's stupid.

Here's a bit of reality: Most people are centrist. They don't care how their neighbors vote or where they pray or what color they are.

What they do care about is the character of their neighbors and the commitment to the community they live in. Period.

The agendistas of both parties need to make you believe that we are at war with each other because that is the only way they can remain relevant or raise money. They thrive on discord.

The right has been infected with the Evangelicals. The left has been infected with the hate America crowd.

We keep playing along- and thus we get the government we deserve.

Term limits would go a long way in fixing this nation.

140 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:38:48pm

re: #135 dartmydog

I'd argue he's more pragmatic than liberal. But like I said to Paul, that's using the Canadian definition. In terms of LGF/America? Social Liberal all the way.

141 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:39:28pm

re: #111 directorblue

Over time (New Deal, Great Society, etc.), the firewalls of the Constitution were erased by activist judges, leaving us with the strange form of government we have today.


Fail. The judiciary is a very important part of what the founding fathers established. They are the guardians of the Constitution in a very real legal sense. The fact that people imagine the Constitution to be something else is the problem. This is one of the big stumbling block the right is facing; The Constitution does not say what you think it does. Just because you don't like the Supreme Court's rulings doesn't make them activists. Ron Paul's nutty interpretation has nothing to do with what the founding fathers set up. It's best that the right lets go of this imaginary interpretation of the Constitution.

142 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:39:33pm

re: #134 davesax

Dave, did you not just see the last topic downstairs before this one...you know, the one about British Jews being cautioned not to fall for the SIOE's slimy tactics?

143 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:40:31pm

re: #138 cliffster

Lotta socks

Very true. That this thread is up was just mentioned over at Rodan's Place. Expect sock puppets to show up and flounce. I don't why those assholes feel the need to hate on Charles, but they do.

144 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:40:59pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

Fail. The judiciary is a very important part of what the founding fathers established. They are the guardians of the Constitution in a very real legal sense. The fact that people imagine the Constitution to be something else is the problem. This is one of the big stumbling block the right is facing; The Constitution does not say what you think it does. Just because you don't like the Supreme Court's rulings doesn't make them activists. Ron Paul's nutty interpretation has nothing to do with what the founding fathers set up. It's best that the right lets go of this imaginary interpretation of the Constitution.

A beer for thee!

145 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:03pm

I recall when the Right Wing began their melt down I was really upset here with the GOP.. I emailed Charles a document showing at one time I was the Republican of the year and invited to the White house.. I was so proud.. These last 6 months I stand in shame.. If the GOP wants to embrace Beck and his ilk I will not only leave you..I will fucking fight you like never seen as a citizen of this great country... My vote isn't cast in concrete.. It is given to sane American politicians...
oh and stalkers that think they represent the GOP.. Bite me...You are a lot of the problem...
/That's all I've got to say about that

146 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:10pm

re: #93 Slim_Junior

Oh, really? I'm a troll? I think my questions are fair.

Yes, but you don't see; as you said.

147 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:20pm

re: #140 McSpiff

I'd argue he's more pragmatic than liberal. But like I said to Paul, that's using the Canadian definition. In terms of LGF/America? Social Liberal all the way.

Let me just add to myself: I think he would move to ban it if the support it gained him would out weight the support he'd lose. In the end tho, I'll say this: I think he places greater weight on his fiscal conservative values and has governed as such. All around a decent PM id say. Better than Dion for sure.

148 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:22pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

A LNDT attack?

149 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:31pm
150 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:31pm

re: #139 researchok

Term limits would go a long way in fixing this nation.

werd

151 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:42pm

re: #28 Killgore Trout

Southern strategy

I had not seen or heard of that before.
That's why people keep blaming this stuff on "the south".

152 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:41:43pm

re: #148 Cannadian Club Akbar

A LNDT attack?

Bet on it...

153 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:42:05pm

re: #138 cliffster

Lotta socks

Wait til you see the boots.

154 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:42:38pm

re: #145 HoosierHoops

I recall when the Right Wing began their melt down I was really upset here with the GOP.. I emailed Charles a document showing at one time I was the Republican of the year and invited to the White house.. I was so proud.. These last 6 months I stand in shame.. If the GOP wants to embrace Beck and his ilk I will not only leave you..I will fucking fight you like never seen as a citizen of this great country... My vote isn't cast in concrete.. It is given to sane American politicians...
oh and stalkers that think they represent the GOP.. Bite me...You are a lot of the problem...
/That's all I've got to say about that

Right on and solid, Hoops...you said what I'm feeling about the GOP to a T.

155 irving  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:43:04pm

If it's any consolation, eventually the Democrats are going to overreach and execute bad ideas, the current crop of ideologues will fail badly enough that saner ones will come to power, the Republican presidential candidates who get the nomination because "it's their turn" will die off, and there will be a Republican resurgence.

I really don't think it's going to happen for a decade at this rate, though. We're just at the beginning of a Democratic resurgence, I think; Obama's a pretty good politician, at least as good as Clinton but more energetic and less prone to personal character flaws. (Smoking excepted; the first Republican who wishes lung cancer on our President gets a punch in the nose, courtesy me.) And the Republicans are driving off the cliff with the pedal on the floor.

It's going to be a long, long trip in the wilderness...

156 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:43:30pm

re: #149 kaymad

Oh yawn, you'll be going over the cliff with Obama than. Either way, we're all going over, you can pat yourself on the back on the way down.

WTF are you talking about?

157 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:43:58pm

re: #124 worknhard

Well...we're waiting!

/Judge Smails

158 rwmofo  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:44:08pm

I'm still trying to figure out what to throw against the wall here. I'm a mainstream conservative and the people on the list above comprise a very small group who are way over on the right. I don't see this as an accurate reflection of the almost 60 million people who voted for McCain.

159 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:44:19pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

Fail. The judiciary is a very important part of what the founding fathers established. They are the guardians of the Constitution in a very real legal sense. The fact that people imagine the Constitution to be something else is the problem. This is one of the big stumbling block the right is facing; The Constitution does not say what you think it does. Just because you don't like the Supreme Court's rulings doesn't make them activists. Ron Paul's nutty interpretation has nothing to do with what the founding fathers set up. It's best that the right lets go of this imaginary interpretation of the Constitution.

Excelsior! ... but it goes both ways.

160 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:44:25pm

This post has been brewing inside my head for a long time.

I wrote it in about 3 minutes. And I mean every single word.

161 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:44:28pm

Stop the Train - Bob Marley

Stop that train: I'm leavin' - leavin'!
Stop that train: I'm leavin' - can't take it!
Stop that train: I'm leavin' - got to be better!
It won't be too long whether I'm right or wrong;
I said it won't be too long whether I'm right or wrong.

162 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:45:06pm

re: #149 kaymad

Speak for yourself, because you don't speak for Charles, myself, or anyone else here...

/bite me

163 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:45:40pm

re: #149 kaymad

So long, troll! Don't let the door hit you where the dog should have bit you.

164 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:46:32pm

re: #149 kaymad

Oh yawn, you'll be going over the cliff with Obama than. Either way, we're all going over, you can pat yourself on the back on the way down.

Bullshit. We can keep our country strong and keep the Democrats from ruining our country without joining the Pat Buchanan / Robert Stacy McCain / Lew Rockwell /Ron Paul / Glenn Beck crowd. Your comment is something I expect to hear on Beck's TV show.

165 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:46:52pm

re: #114 Charles

123 retweets already for this. Expect fireworks.

A couple of twits on twitter have been "tweetstalking" me with anti-LGF messages, telling me what an idiot I am, how I must not have one brain cell or original thought in my head, etc etc. I've blocked them, so I won't hear from them again. But my retweet of this brought in yet another anti-LGF message (now blocked). WhyTF do people who I've never met or corresponded with think they have the right to send me their judgment of my brain cells?

166 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:47:08pm

re: #160 Charles

This post has been brewing inside my head for a long time.

I wrote it in about 3 minutes. And I mean every single word.

Takes a man truly strong and aware of his values to write a post like this. Even if we don't see eye to eye on everything, I respect the hell out of anyone who can bare his soul to thousands, and then stick around to defend himself.

167 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:47:08pm

re: #160 Charles

That is how good writing happens.
Long to ponder fast to put to "paper".

168 dwells38  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:47:19pm

re: #56 Slim_Junior

He did quite a bit of defending of GW Bush here as he (GW) was being branded a Nazi by the left because of common-sense policies designed solely to defend our country.

He also quickly mocked the stupid 9/11 conspiracy that Bush did it to gin up war with Saddam and steal their oil to an give to Haliburton or any of the ChimpyMcBushEvilCheneyHaliburton stupidity.

And he's always stood up for throwing pc and multi-culti love-fests out the window when they really are trying to kill you.

169 hanoch  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:47:39pm

re: #137 Naso Tang

Oh darn!

170 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:48:06pm

re: #158 rwmofo

I'm still trying to figure out what to throw against the wall here. I'm a mainstream conservative and the people on the list above comprise a very small group who are way over on the right. I don't see this as an accurate reflection of the almost 60 million people who voted for McCain.

I voted for McCain and (retro ouch) for Palin. What give you the impression you seem to be expressing about the opinions held here?

171 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:48:36pm

Something just occurred to me about my conservative nature. I went ape-shit crazy tonight about the thousands of dollars our elected servants have spent on bottled water. It's a waste of resources, both physical and financial.

In Pelosi's office alone, we spent $2,740.00 for those bottles of water in three months. It's not as if visiting dignitaries and constituents used up all those bottles. The House members and their staff likely were the main consumers.

Given the chance, I--and I suspect many here--could figure out a way to reduce this bit of waste.

172 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:48:39pm

re: #151 reine.de.tout

Yup.

[Link: us-elections.suite101.com...]

And a lot of it goes back further. The Southern Stratergy is at the root of a lt of what is wrong with the National Conservative Movement.

173 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:48:48pm
174 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:48:57pm

re: #165 reine.de.tout

A couple of twits on twitter have been "tweetstalking" me with anti-LGF messages, telling me what an idiot I am, how I must not have one brain cell or original thought in my head, etc etc. I've blocked them, so I won't hear from them again. But my retweet of this brought in yet another anti-LGF message (now blocked). WhyTF do people who I've never met or corresponded with think they have the right to send me their judgment of my brain cells?

They're emotionally bankrupt and deranged. People like that typically hate themselves and their own failed lives.

175 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:49:04pm

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

Very true. That this thread is up was just mentioned over at Rodan's Place. Expect sock puppets to show up and flounce. I don't why those assholes feel the need to hate on Charles, but they do.

Because he disagrees with them. That's all it takes.

176 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:49:05pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

OK, we've got the overnight use of the refrigerated storage unit across the street. I estimate 20 large troll capacity. Meat wagons are on standby. Extra large grill is heating.

What'd I forget?

Side dishes?

177 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:49:14pm

re: #169 hanoch

Oh darn!

*Flushing sound*

178 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:49:15pm

re: #165 reine.de.tout

A couple of twits on twitter have been "tweetstalking" me with anti-LGF messages, telling me what an idiot I am, how I must not have one brain cell or original thought in my head, etc etc. I've blocked them, so I won't hear from them again. But my retweet of this brought in yet another anti-LGF message (now blocked). WhyTF do people who I've never met or corresponded with think they have the right to send me their judgment of my brain cells?

because you twitter... it's a deal with the devil.

179 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:49:47pm

re: #173 kaymad

Bye now.

180 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:49:53pm

re: #164 NJDhockeyfan

Bullshit. We can keep our country strong and keep the Democrats from ruining our country without joining the Pat Buchanan / Robert Stacy McCain / Lew Rockwell /Ron Paul / Glenn Beck crowd. Your comment is something I expect to hear on Beck's TV show.


You're right

Its that kind of "The Country is going to s#!t and there's nothing anyone can do about it using normal rational methodology. Oh woe is us, if only there could be some sort of deux ex machina to save us" that's going to literally get people killed.

Obama has issues, but he's not so bad as to be threatening the very fabric of the constitution.

/step back from the ledge people.

//Damn your devils for smoking my isles the other night

181 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:50:04pm

re: #171 MandyManners

No one gives a shit.

182 captdiggs  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:50:27pm

re: #155 irving

The democrats weak point under Obama is foreign policy. It's too much like Jimmy Carter. Their fiscal policies will only begin to show their effects, good or bad, near the end of Obama's first term
Any Democrat resurgence will die on the vine if Iran acquires a nuclear weapon or any number of other scenarios evolve involving Pakistan, Israel, Syria, et al.
Obama's exudes weakness, and that's not a good thing in a rough neighborhood.

183 Kronocide  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:50:27pm

re: #160 Charles

This post has been brewing inside my head for a long time.

I wrote it in about 3 minutes. And I mean every single word.

About 10 months? For me it's been about 6. The Obama = Hitler overkill and rampant ODS pretty much did me in.

184 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:50:41pm
185 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:50:50pm

Kos tweeted this a couple of minutes ago-- already has 5 retweets.

# markos

RT @peterdaou: For those who've been following rt/left blogs for some time, 1 of the most dramatic switches is LGF [Link: bit.ly...] 4 minutes ago from TweetDeck

* Reply
* Retweet

# Markos Moulitsas markos

LGF quits conservatism. [Link: bit.ly...] 5 minutes ago from TweetDeck

186 researchok  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:51:01pm

re: #171 MandyManners

Something just occurred to me about my conservative nature. I went ape-shit crazy tonight about the thousands of dollars our elected servants have spent on bottled water. It's a waste of resources, both physical and financial.

In Pelosi's office alone, we spent $2,740.00 for those bottles of water in three months. It's not as if visiting dignitaries and constituents used up all those bottles. The House members and their staff likely were the main consumers.

Given the chance, I--and I suspect many here--could figure out a way to reduce this bit of waste.

Term limits.

Being an elected representative does not bestow entitlement status.

187 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:51:24pm

Charles, my 184.

188 hydrocarbon hank  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:51:29pm

My primary concern is keeping the money I earn in my checking account. If not the right than who?

189 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:51:38pm

re: #146 Naso Tang

Yes, but you don't see; as you said.

After reading this I briefly envisioned a playful yet commanding smack upside someone's head. Maybe I'm giddy already from this lager I'm sipping.

190 Slim_Junior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:51:38pm

re: #160 Charles

This post has been brewing inside my head for a long time.

I wrote it in about 3 minutes. And I mean every single word.

Seriously, Charles, no offense, but I'd like to explore the question of how much you were actually with the Right before you "parted ways" with them. You're trashing rightwingers all day long, but you have surprisingly little criticism for the party that's actually in control of the federal government, many state governments and most major cities. Barack Obama has laid out his domestic agenda very clearly. Is there anything about it you disagree with? I've seen no evidence so far that there is.

191 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:51:55pm

re: #151 reine.de.tout

I had not seen or heard of that before.
That's why people keep blaming this stuff on "the south".

I think that's a part of it. But also before Nixon's "southern strategy" the Dems were playing basically the same game. Nixon just stole their gimmick.

192 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:52:27pm

re: #181 Sharmuta

No one gives a shit.

actually I do... sorry it has come to this.

193 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:52:29pm

re: #188 hydrocarbon hank

My primary concern is keeping the money I earn in my checking account. If not the right than who?

Maybe you didn't notice the republican spending habits after they removed Newt. No one gives a shit about your wallet.

194 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:52:48pm

re: #188 hydrocarbon hank

My primary concern is keeping the money I earn in my checking account. If not the right than who?

Bury it in your backyard. It's safer there.

195 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:52:49pm

re: #190 Slim_Junior

Seriously, Charles, no offense, but I'd like to explore the question...

You can't always get what you want.

196 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:53:15pm

re: #185 iceweasel

Kos tweeted this a couple of minutes ago-- already has 5 retweets.

Ben Smith just did too.

So, let's all behave ourselves just in case this makes Politico!

197 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:53:23pm

re: #195 Charles

But you might just find...

198 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:53:24pm

re: #189 eclectic infidel

After reading this I briefly envisioned a playful yet commanding smack upside someone's head. Maybe I'm giddy already from this lager I'm sipping.

Mandy's turf. Best I can do is use a few *

199 dartmydog  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:53:34pm

re: #147 McSpiff

I don't believe he would, Harper stays out of our lives, he may go to a very conservative church but unlike the paleo-conservatives south of the border he would not try and intercede into our lives.

200 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:53:45pm

re: #185 iceweasel

Markos "Screw them" Zungia is a douche too. I don't trust our new friends any more than I trust out old ones.

201 mojoey  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:53:53pm

Perfect. Well played!

202 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:53:55pm

re: #193 Sharmuta

Maybe you didn't notice the republican spending habits after they removed Newt. No one gives a shit about your wallet.

My grandkids do. They're broke already, and they won't even exist for several decades.

203 Slim_Junior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:53:57pm

re: #195 Charles

You can't always get what you want.

Thanks anyway.

204 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:54:00pm

re: #171 MandyManners

Pelosi, who has come under fire in the past for spending on flowers, also spent roughly $30,610 in food and beverage and about $2,740 on bottled water, contributing to the nearly $120,531 total from all congressional leadership accounts. Her offices defended the charges, saying the Speaker’s office holds more ceremonial events with visiting dignitaries than other congressional offices. They also use a local florist, and about a third of her flower expenses this quarter were for Jack Kemp’s funeral.

House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) racked up about $24,617 in catering costs. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) spent about $1,561 in bottled water and House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-S.C.) spent no money on water but a touch over $18,000 in food. House Minority Whip Eric Cantor (R-Va.) spent about $24,116 on food and beverage.

Hat-tip to Fat Bastard Vegetarian.

205 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:54:10pm

re: #185 iceweasel

Kos tweeted this a couple of minutes ago-- already has 5 retweets.

No disrespect to you ice, but Markos "Screw Them!" Moulitsas can go to Hell. Being praised by him is no compliment. That does not mean that Charles is doing the wrong thing, just that being praised by that asshole is no honor.

206 rwmofo  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:54:19pm

re: #170 Naso Tang

I voted for McCain and (retro ouch) for Palin. What give you the impression you seem to be expressing about the opinions held here?

There's a small group from the far-right listed above. I typically agree with about 80-85% of the Republican platform. If I agreed with any more I'd question my sanity. Conversely, I agree with less than 20% of the Democrat platform. So I'm on the right. However, I don't let a small group of radicals/fanatics/racists influence me just because they're on the same side of the political spectrum. If Charles Manson said he voted Republican, I wouldn't refuse to vote. The left has their own baggage as well.

207 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:54:31pm

re: #190 Slim_Junior

the "Right" used to stand for personal liberty - now it is in hoc to Christians who want to tell people what they can do with their bodies and with whom they can do it with.

it is the "Right" that changed on that score.

208 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:54:32pm

re: #185 iceweasel

Well, I guess we're all good now.

209 hydrocarbon hank  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:54:32pm

re: #193 Sharmuta

Yeah...I've noticed. I'm serious...who can put us back on track? After I got my bill from the Fed this year my head almost exploded.

210 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:54:38pm

re: #190 Slim_Junior

You haven't been looking hard enough then...Charles has called out Obama and the Dems for stupid shit, but the GOP and the right have been busy shooting the feet to the point of there being only nubs left.

/sorry, try harder

211 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:55:01pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

Andrew Sullivan will also probably pick up this post. He's an ass too.

212 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:55:12pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

Markos "Screw them" Zungia is a douche too. I don't trust our new friends any more than I trust out old ones.

They spent years bashing LGF. They're not friends.

213 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:55:13pm

re: #181 Sharmuta

No one gives a shit.

I DO. And, I doubt I am the only one.

How does one start a journey of 1,000 miles?

214 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:55:30pm

re: #209 hydrocarbon hank

Yeah...I've noticed. I'm serious...who can put us back on track? After I got my bill from the Fed this year my head almost exploded.

Wait until you see NEXT years bill!

215 armylaw  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:55:34pm

re: #141 Killgore Trout

Fail. The judiciary is a very important part of what the founding fathers established. They are the guardians of the Constitution in a very real legal sense. The fact that people imagine the Constitution to be something else is the problem. This is one of the big stumbling block the right is facing; The Constitution does not say what you think it does. Just because you don't like the Supreme Court's rulings doesn't make them activists. Ron Paul's nutty interpretation has nothing to do with what the founding fathers set up. It's best that the right lets go of this imaginary interpretation of the Constitution.

There are a few "activist judges" out there. Generally in my experience, though, that phrase is generally used by people to refer to judges with whom they disagreed. Most people that use the term couldn't tell you why the judge ruled a particular way.

216 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:55:53pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

Markos "Screw them" Zungia is a douche too. I don't trust our new friends any more than I trust out old ones.

Amen brother.

217 Kronocide  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:00pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

Markos "Screw them" Zungia is a douche too. I don't trust our new friends any more than I trust out old ones.

I'm not 'going to the other side.' I didn't quit the right wing or conservatism: they quit us. Though, they've tarnished the terms.

218 avanti  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:01pm

re: #171 MandyManners

Something just occurred to me about my conservative nature. I went ape-shit crazy tonight about the thousands of dollars our elected servants have spent on bottled water. It's a waste of resources, both physical and financial.

In Pelosi's office alone, we spent $2,740.00 for those bottles of water in three months. It's not as if visiting dignitaries and constituents used up all those bottles. The House members and their staff likely were the main consumers.

Given the chance, I--and I suspect many here--could figure out a way to reduce this bit of waste.

A few grand for water is wasteful, but small potatoes in the scheme of things. I was ordered to piss away 10 times that amount when my Navy division had money left over the end of the quarter. We waste billions every year, so I don't get worked up about a grand or two.

219 Irving  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:01pm

re: #182 captdiggs

I really don't get it. Exactly how does Obama "exude weakness"? What exactly has he done that's even different than Bush at this point? Admittedly, he's talked to a lot of people Bush never even bothered to sit down with. But nothing's been done that's different in any meaningful way - we're still in Iraq and doubling down in Afghanistan. Iran's still playing footsie with the bomb, but they did that all through the Bush administration. Would it help if he dressed up in a flight suit or something?

220 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:09pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

Markos "Screw them" Zungia is a douche too. I don't trust our new friends any more than I trust out old ones.

If you think Charles (or most of us Lizards) is going to buddy up to Markos and his ilk, you're sadly mistaken...

221 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:09pm

If anyone thinks that Obama doesn't get taken to task here, they are either an idiot or to fucking lazy to read a thread.

222 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:28pm

re: #209 hydrocarbon hank

Yeah...I've noticed. I'm serious...who can put us back on track? After I got my bill from the Fed this year my head almost exploded.

I don't know who can put us back on track anymore. No one cares about Goldwater conservatism.

223 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:31pm

re: #213 MandyManners

I DO. And, I doubt I am the only one.

How does one start a journey of 1,000 miles?

Sen ri no michi mo ippo yori.

Of course.

224 Slim_Junior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:35pm

re: #210 talon_262

You haven't been looking hard enough then...Charles has called out Obama and the Dems for stupid shit,

Can you mention one or two examples? I'll see if I can find the posts.

225 dwells38  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:40pm

re: #173 kaymad

That was weird. You're comparing Charles to actual professional race baiters?

If so he's got a lot of catching up to do.

226 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:44pm
227 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:47pm

re: #213 MandyManners

I DO. And, I doubt I am the only one.

How does one start a journey of 1,000 miles?

Start the car?
//

228 thequis  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:47pm

re: #171 MandyManners

Something just occurred to me about my conservative nature. I went ape-shit crazy tonight about the thousands of dollars our elected servants have spent on bottled water. It's a waste of resources, both physical and financial.

In Pelosi's office alone, we spent $2,740.00 for those bottles of water in three months. It's not as if visiting dignitaries and constituents used up all those bottles. The House members and their staff likely were the main consumers.

Given the chance, I--and I suspect many here--could figure out a way to reduce this bit of waste.

Its called a Brita

229 rwmofo  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:48pm

re: #171 MandyManners

Something just occurred to me about my conservative nature. I went ape-shit crazy tonight about the thousands of dollars our elected servants have spent on bottled water. It's a waste of resources, both physical and financial.

In Pelosi's office alone, we spent $2,740.00 for those bottles of water in three months. It's not as if visiting dignitaries and constituents used up all those bottles. The House members and their staff likely were the main consumers.

Given the chance, I--and I suspect many here--could figure out a way to reduce this bit of waste.

Ya know that bottled water costs more than gasoline, right?

230 hydrocarbon hank  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:56:51pm

I am at my breaking point. I've held out for over a year, but if things don't change, I'll have to let some employees go.

231 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:57:02pm

re: #190 Slim_Junior

Seriously, Charles, no offense, but I'd like to explore the question of how much you were actually with the Right before you "parted ways" with them. You're trashing rightwingers all day long, but you have surprisingly little criticism for the party that's actually in control of the federal government, many state governments and most major cities. Barack Obama has laid out his domestic agenda very clearly. Is there anything about it you disagree with? I've seen no evidence so far that there is.

Why do you want to know? I assume you have opinions of your own, re that. Express them.

Charles is the Blogger, not the Cult Leader.

232 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:57:19pm

re: #202 cliffster

My grandkids do. They're broke already, and they won't even exist for several decades.

How many is several? You could be 40 when you reproduce but, your children could reproduce in their teens so,...

233 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:57:24pm

re: #178 brookly red

because you twitter... it's a deal with the devil.

Must be.
I accidentally retweeted (sent out under my own name) the tweet about me not having any original thoughts in my head. LOL.

234 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:57:26pm

re: #176 Floral Giraffe

OK, we've got the overnight use of the refrigerated storage unit across the street. I estimate 20 large troll capacity. Meat wagons are on standby. Extra large grill is heating.

What'd I forget?

Side dishes?

Yes, please take care of those. We'll also need some drinks, both with and without alcohol. Lastly, we're going to need a deep fryer. We're liable to get a newbie troll flouncer and I want to see if a troll will deep fry well.

235 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:57:31pm

re: #226 winemaker

How would Ronald Reagan have fared at LGF? Not well, which is illustrative.

Bullshit! Reagan was a Goldwater conservative.

236 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:57:34pm

re: #218 avanti

A few grand for water is wasteful, but small potatoes in the scheme of things. I was ordered to piss away 10 times that amount when my Navy division had money left over the end of the quarter. We waste billions every year, so I don't get worked up about a grand or two.

And that is the problem.

237 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:57:40pm

re: #199 dartmydog

I don't believe he would, Harper stays out of our lives, he may go to a very conservative church but unlike the paleo-conservatives south of the border he would not try and intercede into our lives.

I disagree, mostly because he's previously campaigned on re-opening this exact issue. I don't think he would now, but I think thats more due to wide spread shift in public policy.

238 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:58:19pm

re: #165 reine.de.tout

That truly sucks. Seriously the "blog wars" and their implications took me by surprise when I registered. I do not get it. I would not ever waste time blogging about one blog on another. Again and again I am amazed by the vitriol out there. Charles gets threats, Sharmuta gets attacked, you have twitter stalking, my obscure blogs get some anti LGF posts ( I guess a welcome page for lizards visiting my blog as they out number all but the rock fans got some fools attention).

The blog wars and personal fights in blogs just wither my interest. Fortunately the topics and the cool folks around here more than make up for the dust in the wind.

239 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:58:20pm

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

No disrespect to you ice, but Markos "Screw Them!" Moulitsas can go to Hell. Being praised by him is no compliment. That does not mean that Charles is doing the wrong thing, just that being praised by that asshole is no honor.

I didn't see 'praise', I saw a retweet that will be one of many bringing traffic. Personally I think the more people who read LGF the better.

240 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:58:30pm

re: #212 Sharmuta

They spent years bashing LGF. They're not friends.

Neither is Gleen Greenwald.

241 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:58:38pm

re: #224 Slim_Junior

You're a big boy and I'm not going to do your research for you...scroll through the archives or use the damn search box at the top right of the page.

/uggghhh

242 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:59:08pm

re: #239 iceweasel

I didn't see 'praise', I saw a retweet that will be one of many bringing traffic. Personally I think the more people who read LGF the better.

That I agree with.

243 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:59:10pm

re: #200 Killgore Trout

Markos "Screw them" Zungia is a douche too. I don't trust our new friends any more than I trust out old ones.

Fookin'-A.

244 Kronocide  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:59:15pm

People quit LGF because they didn't have the stones to question what was going wrong with their team.

245 McSpiff  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:59:35pm

re: #237 McSpiff

PIMF: public opinion

246 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:59:42pm

re: #215 armylaw

There are a few "activist judges" out there. Generally in my experience, though, that phrase is generally used by people to refer to judges with whom they disagreed. Most people that use the term couldn't tell you why the judge ruled a particular way.

Agreed. "Activist judge" means "disagreed with me about the law, wouldn't have done that if s/he hadn't had evil intentions".

247 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:59:47pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

I don't know who can put us back on track anymore. No one cares about Goldwater conservatism.

It is where most of the American people are, I think. We will get there if only by a circuitous route--sucky policies from left and right will clog the way, but eventually the best of both sides will win out.

A bit Pollyanna-ish, but you can't think it's all down hill forever.

248 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:59:49pm

re: #218 avanti

A few grand for water is wasteful, but small potatoes in the scheme of things. I was ordered to piss away 10 times that amount when my Navy division had money left over the end of the quarter. We waste billions every year, so I don't get worked up about a grand or two.

That's the first thing I would change in how government spends money.

But, then, I'm a conservative. Unwelcome everywhere.

249 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:59:55pm

re: #239 iceweasel

I didn't see 'praise', I saw a retweet that will be one of many bringing traffic. Personally I think the more people who read LGF the better.

I didn't read it as an "invitation" either.

250 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 7:59:57pm

re: #223 BryanS

Sen ri no michi mo ippo yori.

Of course.

With a single step?

251 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:00:10pm

re: #226 winemaker

flounce, much?

252 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:00:11pm

re: #232 MandyManners

How many is several? You could be 40 when you reproduce but, your children could reproduce in their teens so,...

Gosh, I guess you got me! :)

One kid is a year out from kindergarten, and one is under 2 (and won't make it to 2 if he doesn't start eating something other than scrambled eggs). They've got a ways to go, even if I let them drink hormone-laced, puberty inducing milk.

253 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:00:13pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

Bullshit! Reagan was a Goldwater conservative.

I think that guy is misnamed. He should be called "whinemaker" instead. I'll make sure FG has room for him in the freezer.

254 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:00:17pm

re: #196 Gus 802

Ben Smith just did too.

So, let's all behave ourselves just in case this makes Politico!

Meh. Politico posts Drudgebait all day long.

255 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:00:21pm

re: #206 rwmofo

There's a small group from the far-right listed above. I typically agree with about 80-85% of the Republican platform. If I agreed with any more I'd question my sanity. Conversely, I agree with less than 20% of the Democrat platform. So I'm on the right. However, I don't let a small group of radicals/fanatics/racists influence me just because they're on the same side of the political spectrum. If Charles Manson said he voted Republican, I wouldn't refuse to vote. The left has their own baggage as well.

You didn't sign up here last month, nor in 2004, and you have more than 50 posts, yet you still don't seem to get it.

This isn't a percentages game. In fact the whole point is that it is not a percentages game; which is what all the apologists play.

In a nutshell, one does not tolerate a bigot, racists, ignoramus, liar or worse, for the sake of the party.

Have I expressed myself clearly?

256 captdiggs  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:00:38pm

re: #219 Irving

I could start with his "apology tour', move into his alienation of allies, one sided pressure on Israel, his failure to stand up for human rights with China, etc., but that would take a lot more space and time than I'm going to give right now.

257 GoJeepGo  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:00:44pm

I'm just glad to be a part of LGF.

258 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:00:50pm

re: #227 Cannadian Club Akbar

Start the car?
//

!

259 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:00:53pm

re: #254 iceweasel

Meh. Politico posts Drudgebait all day long.

Ah, in that case...

Socialism!

/

260 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:01:08pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

AHEM. You're gonna have to fry it yourself.
And, BTW, the insurance doesn't cover "frying acidents".

BEER, Wine & Soda, Pop for those who chose on the way!
Bottled water too.
Y'all can take the bottles home & refill them ;)

261 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:01:13pm

I'm just here for the beer.

Speaking of which, bartender!

262 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:01:13pm

re: #244 BigPapa

People quit LGF because they didn't have the stones to question what was going wrong with their team.

They don't want to think for themselves, they want an echo chamber.

263 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:01:14pm

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

And plenty of hot sauce. Despite deep frying, the taste of troll could still be unpleasant. We must be prepared.

264 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:01:21pm

re: #218 avanti

A few grand for water is wasteful, but small potatoes in the scheme of things. I was ordered to piss away 10 times that amount when my Navy division had money left over the end of the quarter. We waste billions every year, so I don't get worked up about a grand or two.

I wish I could read this one day:

We save billions every year, so I don't get worked up about a grand or two.

265 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:01:39pm

re: #228 thequis

Its called a Brita

And, there are ways to deliver the water.

266 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:01:44pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

Bullshit! Reagan was a Goldwater conservative.

Here! Here! Social cons take way too much credit for his presidency simply due to his personal religiosity.

267 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:02:41pm

re: #229 rwmofo

Ya know that bottled water costs more than gasoline, right?

Ummm...sitting in my freezer is a bottle of ethos water that I bought from Starbucks two years ago. I re-use the bottles.

268 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:02:55pm

re: #219 Irving

I really don't get it. Exactly how does Obama "exude weakness"? What exactly has he done that's even different than Bush at this point? Admittedly, he's talked to a lot of people Bush never even bothered to sit down with. But nothing's been done that's different in any meaningful way - we're still in Iraq and doubling down in Afghanistan. Iran's still playing footsie with the bomb, but they did that all through the Bush administration. Would it help if he dressed up in a flight suit or something?

I think a lot of people say Obama seems weak to our enemies and frenemies, when they mean that he seems weak to them. I can understand that. I never understood the comfort many people seemed to get from George W. Bush--the thought that he was running this clambake scared the hell out of me. And I don't even eat clams. Apparently reverse response to Obama for many people.

I actually think Obama scares the hell out of many people abroad. Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

A flight suit might be cute, though.

269 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:01pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

Bullshit! Reagan was a Goldwater conservative.

Exactly...

/BTW, you quoted the (now-deleted) troll ;-P

270 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:06pm

re: #266 BryanS

Here! Here! Social cons take way too much credit for his presidency simply due to his personal religiosity.

He gave us the towering moderate Sandra Day O'Connor, and I'm supposed to think he's a hero of the theocons? It's laughable.

271 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:06pm

re: #261 Racer X

I'm just here for the beer.

Speaking of which, bartender!

Ooo,Ooo, me!!

272 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:14pm

re: #262 talon_262

They don't want to think for themselves, they want an echo chamber.

They wanted an echo chamber that would be a cheering section for the worst excesses of the right no matter what-- which is what the entire rest of the right blogosphere has turned into.

273 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:25pm

re: #230 hydrocarbon hank

I am at my breaking point. I've held out for over a year, but if things don't change, I'll have to let some employees go.

(((h hank)))

Take care.

274 aliencam  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:26pm

Charles, I agree with 10/10 of your points, but I still identify myself as "right", I just stay away from "republican" "libertarian" "neo-**whatever**" and other labels like that.

I can't see how rational people can legitimately agree with anyone in the political sphere right now, it seems like everyone is "over the cliff" on one side or another.

Can't we have someone just thinks before they act?

275 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:38pm

re: #244 BigPapa

People quit LGF because they didn't have the stones to question what was going wrong with their team.

People leave LGF because they don't have the BRAINS to ANSWER the questions about what was going wrong with their team.

"GAHHH HARD QUESTIONS ABOUT THINGS THAT DON'T FIT PRECISELY INTO MY PRECONCEIVED BLACK/WHITE NOTION OF THE WORLD! ME NO LIKE THE CONFUSING THOUGHTS"

276 rwmofo  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:40pm

re: #255 Naso Tang

You've totally missed my point.

277 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:42pm

re: #263 eclectic infidel

And plenty of hot sauce. Despite deep frying, the taste of troll could still be unpleasant. We must be prepared.

I'll get some and some soy sauce too. Soy is quite good at improving taste.

278 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:52pm

re: #261 Racer X

I'm just here for the beer.

Speaking of which, bartender!

Hi..My name is Hoopster and I'll be your waiter tonight

279 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:53pm

re: #195 Charles

You can't always get what you want.



You Can't Get That Stuff No More - Tampa Red

280 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:56pm

re: #250 MandyManners

With a single step?

Yep. Japanese proverb, that is. A thousand Ri (archaic measure of distance, translated as mile) trip begins with one step.

281 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:03:59pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

I don't know who can put us back on track anymore. No one cares about Goldwater conservatism.

Honey, you're breaking my heart. There's nothing sadder than a Smurf who's realized that no one smurfs Goldwater conservatism.

:(

282 Slim_Junior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:04:27pm

re: #241 talon_262

You're a big boy and I'm not going to do your research for you...scroll through the archives or use the damn search box at the top right of the page.

/uggghhh

I didn't ask you to do research, I just asked you to substantiate a claim you made. I explicitly said I would find the posts myself, once I had a keyword or to go on.

283 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:04:28pm

re: #249 Gus 802

I didn't read it as an "invitation" either.

Linked LGF. Twice.

284 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:05:03pm

More than 1500 retweets.

285 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:05:11pm

re: #283 iceweasel

Linked LGF. Twice.

Hey do you have a link for that Andrew "Beta Male" Breitbart phone call rant?

286 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:05:25pm
287 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:05:27pm

re: #274 aliencam

Charles, I agree with 10/10 of your points, but I still identify myself as "right", I just stay away from "republican" "libertarian" "neo-**whatever**" and other labels like that.

I can't see how rational people can legitimately agree with anyone in the political sphere right now, it seems like everyone is "over the cliff" on one side or another.

Can't we have someone just thinks before they act?

That last seems a maneuver too difficult for most people these. Not here, though. Here we fact check each other and that encourages thinking before you post.

288 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:05:31pm

re: #276 rwmofo

You've totally missed my point.

I could say the same. So it is.

289 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:05:33pm

re: #281 SanFranciscoZionist

Honey, you're breaking my heart. There's nothing sadder than a Smurf who's realized that no one smurfs Goldwater conservatism.

:(

Drew Brees is smurfing the smurf out of the Patriots right now.

/sorry for cursing.

290 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:05:41pm

re: #244 BigPapa

People quit LGF because they didn't have the stones to question what was going wrong with their team.

Or handle not being able to scream down any criticism of the flavor of the moment.

291 Ferris  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:05:43pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

Bullshit! Reagan was a Goldwater conservative.


You think a President who proclaimed a "Year of the Bible" would have been welcomed at LGF? Really?

292 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:05:58pm

The thing about moderates is that the MotherFuckingMedia exist to make money and, if it bleeds, it leads.

293 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:06:02pm

Ben Smith linked at Politico: [Link: www.politico.com...]

294 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:06:03pm

re: #279 Bagua

How's the Trollometer doing? Batteries charged?

295 hydrocarbon hank  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:06:06pm

Am I the only one enraged at the current Tax structure, new taxes, and all of the new road blocks preventing private business to thrive? Charles, I understand your anger about the social issues, but no mention of Uncle Sam's hand in our pockets even made your list?

296 avanti  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:06:12pm

re: #248 Sharmuta

That's the first thing I would change in how government spends money.

But, then, I'm a conservative. Unwelcome everywhere.

I don't disagree with you, but many have tried, and failed. Just a simple change to allow Medicare allow competition for drugs and equipment could save billions, but neither side can get a bill passed to allow it. Punishing agencies with money left in their budget is another small example. If they have a million left over, then their budget might be reduced by a million, so they spend it on crap.

297 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:06:22pm

People often default to saying they're "right" because it sounds like the opposite of "wrong".

It's not.

298 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:02pm

re: #286 Cato the Elder

The sleep of reason begets monsters.

Vote Nurglon in 2012.

good joke but that's a pretty nasty picture of Sarah Palin.

299 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:10pm

re: #291 Ferris

You think a President who proclaimed a "Year of the Bible" would have been welcomed at LGF? Really?

Yes. Ronald Reagan will always be welcome at LGF. Trying to stir up trouble?

300 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:22pm

re: #291 Ferris

You think a President who proclaimed a "Year of the Bible" would have been welcomed at LGF? Really?

Fascinating a democrat Congress would pass such a thing.

301 Lateralis  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:07:53pm

I thought sacrificing babies was the dark ages.

302 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:08:00pm

re: #286 Cato the Elder

The sleep of reason begets monsters.

Vote Nurglon in 2012.

Don't blame me for the political mess our country is in, I voted for Kronos.

303 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:08:09pm

re: #291 Ferris

You think a President who proclaimed a "Year of the Bible" would have been welcomed at LGF? Really?

Every year is the Year of the Bible for me. I haven't been banned yet.

304 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:08:10pm

re: #116 Gus 802

Thought it was good to re-post this excerpt as reflection and comparison as well as a point of reflection.

They don't make them like they used to and that includes the Buckleys and Goldwater.

Or like Muskie. We need more like them and Russ Feingold. Both sides honestly working for the best interest of the nation and keeping each other honest.

William

305 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:08:12pm

re: #293 Charles

Ben Smith linked at Politico: [Link: www.politico.com...]

Nice comments. Heh.

306 Kronocide  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:08:50pm

I Flounced From The Right Wing

Regards, Alone in Pragmatism

307 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:08:56pm

re: #295 hydrocarbon hank

Am I the only one enraged at the current Tax structure, new taxes, and all of the new road blocks preventing private business to thrive? Charles, I understand your anger about the social issues, but no mention of Uncle Sam's hand in our pockets even made your list?

That will be tomorrow's post.

308 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:09:03pm

re: #178 brookly red

because you twitter... it's a deal with the devil.

twitter is weird,

I opened up a test account to try to figure out how it works. Sent a couple of messages back and forth such as "test tweet from laptop" and "test tweet from mobile".

Today I got an email from "NannieBarry747" requesting to follow my tweets.

309 schnapp  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:09:09pm

re: #302 BryanS

I was just browsing through the comments but I had to log in to upding yours!!

310 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:09:22pm

re: #296 avanti

I don't disagree with you, but many have tried, and failed.

Uh- I've said repeatedly tonight that no one cares about conservatism.

It's true.

311 Slim_Junior  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:09:31pm

re: #231 SanFranciscoZionist

Why do you want to know? I assume you have opinions of your own, re that. Express them.

I said why I was asking, and you even quoted that part. I want to find out to what extent Charles was actually with the Right before he "parted ways" with them. Aside from the WOT, it's not clear to me that he ever really was to any great extent. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

312 dwells38  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:09:41pm

re: #219 Irving

I really don't get it. Exactly how does Obama "exude weakness"? What exactly has he done that's even different than Bush at this point? Admittedly, he's talked to a lot of people Bush never even bothered to sit down with. But nothing's been done that's different in any meaningful way - we're still in Iraq and doubling down in Afghanistan. Iran's still playing footsie with the bomb, but they did that all through the Bush administration. Would it help if he dressed up in a flight suit or something?

Oh I think he has shown some weakness in dealing with the Russians and the Chinese. He's been suckered into meetings where the US gets nothing and those rivals get what they want. He seems to not understand that we have allies that depend on our strong stance. Maybe that's his intent to signal to them they're now on their own.

At the same time by talking to or offereing to talk with enemies of the US or apologizing for US policies to countries that oppress their peoples he elevates their status which is a bad idea.

He should never have offered to talk with Iran as they continue to parade around with Death to America and Israel on their missiles, brutally oppress and murder political opponents and kidnap Brits willy-nilly.

Bush's supposed cowboy mentality at least in most cases correctly identified who's trying to punk us, who hates and who really are and aren't our friends.

Not trying to trash President Obama just citing some example that I think show weakness. And maybe it's calculated to let them show their true colors and he'll get tough with them later. We'll see.

313 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:09:45pm

re: #305 Cannadian Club Akbar

That got ugly in about two seconds.

314 Kronocide  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:09:45pm

re: #301 Lateralis

WTF?

315 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:09:56pm

re: #285 Gus 802

Hey do you have a link for that Andrew "Beta Male" Breitbart phone call rant?

yep-- gawker has the dirt.
[Link: gawker.com...]

316 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:10:01pm

re: #301 Lateralis

You suck.

317 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:10:10pm

re: #310 Sharmuta

Uh- I've said repeatedly tonight that no one cares about conservatism.

It's true.

No, it's not. Not with all.

318 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:10:20pm

"It is in the area of spending that the Republican Party's performance, in its seven years of power, has been most disappointing."

-Barry Goldwater

319 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:10:36pm

re: #282 Slim_Junior

I didn't ask you to do research, I just asked you to substantiate a claim you made. I explicitly said I would find the posts myself, once I had a keyword or to go on.

Your first two posts in this thread showed you haven't done your homework about where Charles stands (outside of his statement at the top of the thread), so you were expecting him to play 20 Questions...look through the archives, because that's all i'd do to show you.

/it ain't that hard

320 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:10:37pm

SF author William Gibson just tweeted this. Wow.

321 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:10:58pm

re: #315 iceweasel

yep-- gawker has the dirt.
[Link: gawker.com...]

Alpha! Hahahahaha!

Thanks.

322 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:11:03pm

re: #301 Lateralis

WTF did that come from?

/jerk

323 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:11:14pm

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.

-Barry Goldwater (November 1994)

324 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:11:26pm

William Gibson: [Link: twitter.com...]

325 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:11:33pm

re: #320 Charles

SF author William Gibson just tweeted this. Wow.

Love Necromancer...had to read it in college.

326 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:11:47pm

re: #308 Bagua

twitter is weird,

I opened up a test account to try to figure out how it works. Sent a couple of messages back and forth such as "test tweet from laptop" and "test tweet from mobile".

Today I got an email from "NannieBarry747" requesting to follow my tweets.

I just don't get it... people pay for unlisted phone numbers & then sign up for twitter.

327 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:11:52pm

Good for you, Charles.
There's only so much shit a person can take.

328 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:11:52pm

re: #305 Cannadian Club Akbar

Nice comments. Heh.

This post is going to be one of the top stories on memeorandum tomorrow, and talked about all over the blogosphere, esp the liberal blogosphere. I'd bet anything. Lots of people who never checked LGF out before will be coming by.

329 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:11:57pm

"By maintaining the separation of church and state," he explained, "the United States has avoided the intolerance which has so divided the rest of the world with religious wars . . . Can any of us refute the wisdom of Madison and the other framers? Can anyone look at the carnage in Iran, the bloodshed in Northem Ireland, or the bombs bursting in Lebanon and yet question the dangers of injecting religious issues into the affairs of state?"

-Barry Goldwater

330 RexMundi  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:12pm

Thank you, Charles, for having the courage to stand out against misguided group-think.

331 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:29pm

AN IRISH GHOST STORY

This story happened a while ago in Dublin , and even though it sounds like an Alfred Hitchcock tale, it's true.
~~~
John Bradford, a Dublin University student, was on the side of the road hitchhiking on a very dark night and in the midst of a big storm.

The night was rolling on and no car went by. The storm was so strong he could hardly see a few feet ahead of him, when
suddenly he saw a car slowly coming towards him and stopped.

John , desperate for shelter and without thinking about it, got into the car and closed the door... only to realize there was nobody behind the wheel and the engine wasn't on.

The car started moving slowly. John looked at the road ahead and saw a curve approaching. Scared, he started to pray, begging for his life.

Then, just before the car hit the curve, a hand appeared out of nowhere through the window, and turned the wheel.. John , paralyzed with terror, watched as the hand came through the window, but never touched or harmed him.

Shortly thereafter, John saw the lights of a pub appear down the road, so, gathering strength; he jumped out of the car and ran to it.

Wet and out of breath, he rushed inside and started telling everybody about the horrible experience he had just had..

A silence enveloped the pub when everybody realized he was crying... and wasn't drunk. Suddenly, the door opened, and two other people walked in from the dark and stormy night.

They, like John , were also soaked and out of breath. Looking around, and seeing John Bradford sobbing at the bar, one said to the other...
'Look Paddy...there's that fooker that got in your car. Next time help us push, ya wanker!!!'

332 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:33pm

re: #311 Slim_Junior

I said why I was asking, and you even quoted that part. I want to find out to what extent Charles was actually with the Right before he "parted ways" with them. Aside from the WOT, it's not clear to me that he ever really was to any great extent. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'd suggest reading through his posts on the presidential campaign for some insight there.

333 Killgore Trout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:41pm

re: #324 Charles

From that thread...

LGF: Feels like some rare astronomical event, something we hear about but don't bother hoping to see: somebody changing their mind.


Heh.

334 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:41pm

re: #295 hydrocarbon hank

Am I the only one enraged at the current Tax structure, new taxes, and all of the new road blocks preventing private business to thrive? Charles, I understand your anger about the social issues, but no mention of Uncle Sam's hand in our pockets even made your list?

Hank, Charles is not the owner of a small business so I don't know if this issue is on his radar.

335 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:42pm

re: #304 wlewisiii

Or like Muskie. We need more like them and Russ Feingold. Both sides honestly working for the best interest of the nation and keeping each other honest.

William

Agreed on the Feingold as a conservative leaning voter from his state. He's much too liberal for my personal tastes on economic issues, but he got my vote last two times simply because he's one of those rare political gems who should be in the Senate.

336 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:47pm

re: #295 hydrocarbon hank

Am I the only one enraged at the current Tax structure, new taxes, and all of the new road blocks preventing private business to thrive? Charles, I understand your anger about the social issues, but no mention of Uncle Sam's hand in our pockets even made your list?

I'm outraged at corporate welfare while the rest of us grow poor.

As for the current tax structure, it is the most regressive (i.e. takes the most from the poor while giving the most to the rich) in three generations.

337 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:53pm

The Saints are having their way with the NE Patriots. I never thought I would see a team in New Orleans so dominating in the NFL in my lifetime. Good for them.

338 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:12:57pm

re: #294 Floral Giraffe

How's the Trollometer doing? Batteries charged?

To save the planet I switched the Flounce-O-Meter™ to run on Solar Power.

Now it's useless at night.


(In light of this 10 post, I'm breaking out the jumper cables and will shortly fire her up.)

339 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:13:06pm

When you say "radical right" today, I think of these moneymaking ventures by fellows like Pat Robertson and others who are trying to take the Republican Party away from the Republican Party, and make a religious organization out of it. If that ever happens, kiss politics goodbye.

-Barry Goldwater

340 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:13:09pm

re: #320 Charles

SF author William Gibson just tweeted this. Wow.

Well, he is into Pattern Recognition and the zeitgeist...

341 jpwhitmore  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:13:22pm

Charles
But what exactly does this mean besides no longer associating with or supporting the religious right and all the people mentioned above? I've been asking myself this question since I had my own parting with the right and wondered what you think. Because for me at least I feel like my political views haven't changed. It's the people around me. Sorry if someone else has asked something similar in this dense thread.

342 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:13:41pm

Well said Charles!

Jimmah, a Scottish centre-lefty. (The worst kind of centre-lefty there is ;-))

343 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:13:41pm

re: #320 Charles

SF author William Gibson just tweeted this. Wow.

You know, Ugarti, I am a little more impressed with you now.

344 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:13:44pm

re: #301 Lateralis

I thought sacrificing babies was the dark ages.

Well, ain't you fucking special.

345 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:13:46pm

re: #302 BryanS

Don't blame me for the political mess our country is in, I voted for Kronos.

I would have voted for Cthulhu, but it wasn't on the ballot on my state.

346 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:13:50pm

Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives.

-Barry Goldwater

347 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:14:14pm

re: #325 talon_262

Love Necromancer...had to read it in college.

Neuromancer. Good book.

348 hydrocarbon hank  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:14:20pm

re: #334 MandyManners

Thanks for the heads up -- I've been out of the loop since my wife and I had our first child four months ago. This has been a crazy year to say the least.

349 bosforus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:14:36pm
I won’t be going over the cliff with them.

I ain't going off no cliff with nobody.

350 Mark Pennington  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:14:57pm

Good grief, I love LGF. I haven't been able to keep up lately due to helping take care of my sister but I just had to say something in this awesome entry.

I hope everyone is well and happy.

351 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:15:04pm

On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.
I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in "A," "B," "C" and "D." Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me?
And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of "conservatism."

-Barry Goldwater

352 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:15:09pm

re: #328 iceweasel

This post is going to be one of the top stories on memeorandum tomorrow, and talked about all over the blogosphere, esp the liberal blogosphere. I'd bet anything. Lots of people who never checked LGF out before will be coming by.

Might be a good time to open the registration.

353 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:15:23pm

re: #349 bosforus

I ain't going off no cliff with nobody.

Aww, come on. Strap on one of these parachutes. They're specially designed to be compatible with the religious right. Have a safe trip to the bottom!

354 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:15:31pm

Good lord. More than 2200 retweets. Yikes.

355 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:15:34pm

re: #346 Sharmuta

Keep those coming-Great stuff!!
I may have to chorus in with some Reagan or Buckley.

356 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:15:41pm

re: #333 Killgore Trout

From that thread...

Heh.

And the thing is, Charles hasn't "changed", the right and the GOP have...Charles only put down a definitive statement of why he doesn't re: #347 SanFranciscoZionist

Neuromancer. Good book.

Whoops, meant Neuromancer, not Necromancer...PIMF!

;-P

357 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:15:49pm

re: #352 NJDhockeyfan

Might be a good time to open the registration.

Yes- maybe we can pick up a bunch of koslings.

358 webevintage  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:10pm

re: #171 MandyManners


In Pelosi's office alone, we spent $2,740.00 for those bottles of water in three months. It's not as if visiting dignitaries and constituents used up all those bottles. The House members and their staff likely were the main consumers.

Given the chance, I--and I suspect many here--could figure out a way to reduce this bit of waste.

That. is. amazing.
What a waste of money.
For $100 we could give each office a supply of nice steel water bottles that they can fill over and over again from the (*gasp*) tap.

Btw, great post Charles...

359 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:16pm

re: #325 talon_262

Love Necromancer...had to read it in college.

W00t!!!
Wow, this is cool...all of us on twitter should create some sort of special LGF hash tag to retweet all these! Suggestions? (Not #LGF because it covers too much).

360 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:17pm

re: #352 NJDhockeyfan

Might be a good time to open the registration.

Let 'er rip boss!

361 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:26pm

re: #325 talon_262

Love Necromancer...had to read it in college.

I believe you're confusing Neuromancer with The Necronomicon. Both of which sometimes get mixed up with Crytonomicon.

Don't worry, you're all alone.

362 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:26pm

re: #355 Rightwingconspirator

Keep those coming-Great stuff!!
I may have to chorus in with some Reagan or Buckley.

No- they're not great stuff. They're conservative quotes and no one is interested in conservatism.

363 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:33pm

re: #356 talon_262

Damnit...intermingled posts.

/DOH!

364 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:53pm

re: #362 Sharmuta

No- they're not great stuff. They're conservative quotes and no one is interested in conservatism.

Well, us conservatives are. But nobody else is. /

365 thequis  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:16:59pm

The problem that the modern GOP has right now policywise is that they've conflated actions that have worked in the past with actions that will ALWAYS WORK.

Everyone one quotes Reagan "government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem" but they leave out the all important "In this present crisis..."

Lower taxes was needed when the tax rate on the highest earning Americans was 90 friggin percent! Less regulation was needed when every single aspect of private enterprise seemingly was covered by a government regulation.

On the other hand, financing war with foreign debt instead of increased productivity from the populace (i.e. higher taxes) and not regulating industries where the short term individual financial gains have insulated the participants from the long term ramifications of their disastrous actions (that affect everyone else) is very harmful. And we've seen the consequence.

Reagan was enough of a pragmatist that he raised taxes when need be (to keep deficits under control). H.W. Bush was denied re-election when he did the absolute right thing and stepped up to the plate, eschewed doctrine, and set forth to raise taxes to cover the cost of Desert Storm.

The GOP has become a collection of ugly guys who watched Brad Pitt use a pick up line get a girl, tried the same the same line and are ANGRY they didn't get the same result.

Sorry for the rant, here's a little Reagan for you.

366 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:17:09pm

'...that if we take from a man the personal responsibility for caring for his material needs, we take from him also the will and the opportunity to be free."

-Barry Goldwater, The Conscience of a Conservative

367 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:17:34pm

2200 retweets?

Flounce-O-Meter™ is fired up on auxiliary power. It is flashing, beeping, smoking and repeating this message:


368 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:17:39pm

re: #352 NJDhockeyfan

Might be a good time to open the registration.

Oh yeah. The stalkers will be out of course, but I think they'd be overwhelmed with the avalanche of traffic LGF will be getting-- the sock registrations would be a very small fraction, I mean.

369 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:17:47pm

The income tax created more criminals than any other single act of government.

-Barry Goldwater

370 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:18:00pm

re: #337 NJDhockeyfan

This is a MNF game! WOW!

371 hydrocarbon hank  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:18:07pm

Crying baby, I'm out -- Can't wait to see the Tuesday morning $hit storm this brings.

372 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:18:15pm

re: #348 hydrocarbon hank

Thanks for the heads up -- I've been out of the loop since my wife and I had our first child four months ago. This has been a crazy year to say the least.

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

What kind of child?

Oh, I loved those first few months. (Well, they had some major issues but, looking back,..that was parental Eden.)

373 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:18:24pm

re: #368 iceweasel

Oh yeah. The stalkers will be out of course, but I think they'd be overwhelmed with the avalanche of traffic LGF will be getting-- the sock registrations would be a very small fraction, I mean.

Plus, the troll barbecue is officially lit, heated, brushed, and ready for action. I don't often pop in on evening threads, but Charles deserves all the support he can get.

374 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:18:42pm

re: #370 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is a MNF game! WOW!

YES!!!

375 hydrocarbon hank  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:19:18pm

re: #372 MandyManners

A perfect little girl...who is now screaming at the top of her lungs.

376 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:19:22pm

#310 Sharmuta


there are no Atheists in a foxhole and there are no strict free-marketeers in a financial meltdown. Big institutions ran to the government as soon as this started.

Government bailed them out.

The reasonable people - captains of industry and "conservative" professors who would otherwise be championing small government and low taxes are resiled to the fact that only Government will get the economy through because only the government has the deep enough pockets.

When the economic situation gets levelled out and the conditions are right to bring back PAYGO, leading to a balanced budget and then a surplus - then - and only then are the wiser heads going to get back on the wagon.

The reflexively anti-government (not limited but anti) attitude exemplified by the teabagging far right has hunkered the Reasonable people down into small isolated cells. If someone identifies as a "conservative" immediately the modern definition is hurled at them and they have to defend Beck/Palin 2012 as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

just my 2 cents ;-)

377 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:19:24pm

re: #318 Sharmuta

re: #329 Sharmuta


Both reasons Bush Jr was a horrible president. This conservative would love to see the social cons lose the level of influence they now have over the party.

378 bosforus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:19:30pm

re: #353 thedopefishlives

Well, I guess one jump couldn't hurt.
v
v
v
v
*splat*

You trickster, you.

379 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:19:36pm

re: #370 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is a MNF game! WOW!

The Saints look like the old Patriots.

380 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:19:37pm

re: #333 Killgore Trout

From that thread...

Heh.

Let's try this again ;-P

The thing is, Charles hasn't "changed", the right and the GOP have...Charles only put down a definitive statement of why he doesn't identify with the right, as it currently exists.

381 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:19:54pm

re: #370 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is a MNF game! WOW!

I used to think Jon Grudin had taken on WAAAY to much of a cheese-turd tone, but he's growing on me.

382 Ferris  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:20:01pm

re: #300 Sharmuta

Reagan wouldn't be attacked here for this stuff?

Presidential hopeful Ronald Reagan told a cheering throng of over 10,000 "born-again" Christians in Dallas that the lack of "that old-time religion" in public schools has led to an increase in human suffering. He was addressing a rally of New Right preachers and politicians from more than 41 states who gathered on August 22nd to participate in a "Roundtable National Affairs Briefing." In reference to the theory of evolution Reagan declared, "I have a great many questions about it. It is a theory, it is a scientific theory only. And in recent years it has been challenged in the world of science and is not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was. I think that recent discoveries down through the years have pointed up great flaws in it." He then added that if the theory of evolution is to be taught in public schools, so should the Biblical version of the origin of human life.

383 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:20:13pm

re: #362 Sharmuta

Hmmm?

Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged.
Ronald Reagan

384 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:20:27pm

re: #367 Bagua

2200 retweets?

Flounce-O-Meter™ is fired up on auxiliary power. It is flashing, beeping, smoking and repeating this message:

Heh. Also this has never been more appropriate!

385 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:20:35pm

re: #370 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This is a MNF game! WOW!

DOH!! Satellite's down at the moment due to weather... I wanted to see this one too, I haven't been able to watch the Saints play yet this year.

386 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:20:39pm

re: #357 Sharmuta

Yes- maybe we can pick up a bunch of koslings.

huh?

387 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:21:05pm

re: #385 Girth

They're pretty good.

388 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:21:29pm

re: #376 wozzablog

If someone identifies as a "conservative" immediately the modern definition is hurled at them and they have to defend Beck/Palin 2012 as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Yeah, but moonbats stole "liberal", which socially Goldwater was, so I can't use that term either. Which would you prefer I steal back?

389 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:21:34pm

re: #386 brookly red

huh?

Daily Kos kids.

390 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:21:34pm

re: #361 Cato the Elder

I believe you're confusing Neuromancer with The Necronomicon. Both of which sometimes get mixed up with Crytonomicon.

Don't worry, you're all alone.

Haha, Cato...I realized my mistake when SFZ replied.

Neuromancer is a great SF book, IMO, though.

391 ThisisMatt  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:22:07pm

You are not a conservative because of the others who get the same label. You are a conservative because you believe in conservative principles. You probably have a few ideas I think are nuts. That does not make you my Pat Buchanan. Pat Buchanan is not a conservative anyway. Reactionary loons are a party unto themselves.

392 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:22:15pm

re: #385 Girth

DOH!! Satellite's down at the moment due to weather... I wanted to see this one too, I haven't been able to watch the Saints play yet this year.

The long and short of it: Brees is curb stomping New England. And its oh-so glorious to watch.

/If only Sanchez was this good.

393 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:22:22pm

re: #358 webevintage

That. is. amazing.
What a waste of money.
For $100 we could give each office a supply of nice steel water bottles that they can fill over and over again from the (*gasp*) tap.

Btw, great post Charles...

Not all tap water tastes good. (I fill my bottles through my freezer's water/crushed-ice/cubed-ice dispenser.) So, as another Lizard suggested, let's buy them a Brita system! Fill your suggested bottles therefrom.

394 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:22:34pm

re: #298 Dark_Falcon

good joke but that's a pretty nasty picture of Sarah Palin.

Not as nasty as her mind.

"What's the ugliest / part / of your body?" --Frank Zappa

395 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:22:38pm

re: #382 Ferris

But applauded for this

I call upon the scientific community in our country, those who gave us nuclear weapons, to turn their great talents now to the cause of mankind and world peace: to give us the means of rendering these nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete.
Ronald Reagan

396 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:22:45pm

re: #365 thequis

The problem that the modern GOP has right now policywise is that they've conflated actions that have worked in the past with actions that will ALWAYS WORK.

The GOP has become a collection of ugly guys who watched Brad Pitt use a pick up line get a girl, tried the same the same line and are ANGRY they didn't get the same result.

Brilliant.

397 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:23:36pm

re: #299 NJDhockeyfan

Yes. Ronald Reagan will always be welcome at LGF. Trying to stir up trouble?

That's a hypothetical. He's dead, you know.

398 RexMundi  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:23:46pm

re: #47 Charles

The haters are already tweeting about this.

What do you expect from a tw@t but a tweet?

399 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:23:51pm

re: #389 Cannadian Club Akbar

Daily Kos kids.


I know what they are thank you... my huh, was for huh?

400 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:24:31pm

re: #399 brookly red

I know what they are thank you... my huh, was for huh?

My bad.

401 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:24:47pm

re: #395 Rightwingconspirator

But applauded for this

I call upon the scientific community in our country, those who gave us nuclear weapons, to turn their great talents now to the cause of mankind and world peace: to give us the means of rendering these nuclear weapons impotent and obsolete.
Ronald Reagan

Can't put the genie back in the bottle.

402 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:24:55pm

re: #394 Cato the Elder

By the way it's "Cryptonomicon" not "Crytonomicon." Ha, ha... I caught you in a speeling error.

403 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:25:13pm

re: #402 Walter L. Newton

By the way it's "Cryptonomicon" not "Crytonomicon." Ha, ha... I caught you in a speeling error.

Yes, you deed.

404 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:25:14pm

re: #365 thequis

The GOP has become a collection of ugly guys who watched Brad Pitt use a pick up line get a girl, tried the same the same line and are ANGRY they didn't get the same result.

"Hi, I'm Brad Pitt" doesn't work unless you're Brad Pitt (or you're coming on to a really nearsighted girl)

405 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:25:19pm

re: #342 Jimmah

Well said Charles!

Jimmah, a Scottish centre-lefty. (The worst kind of centre-lefty there is ;-))

Aye, the kind who spells it 'centre'!

406 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:25:35pm

re: #384 iceweasel

Heh. Also this has never been more appropriate!

Many giant pillows will be stained with wingnut tears tonight.

/'So I Married an Axe Murderer' reference ;-)

407 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:25:45pm

re: #400 Cannadian Club Akbar

My bad.

no, these are strange times...

408 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:26:05pm

re: #375 hydrocarbon hank

A perfect little girl...who is now screaming at the top of her lungs.

Oh, wonderful!

Before you know it, she'll be asking to borrow the keys to the car and you'll be following her live on the computer. Of course, that computer might be the size of a post card. Or, a postal stamp.

Oh, Hank. Enjoy your new family to the fullest.

409 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:26:10pm

re: #397 Cato the Elder

This is from his grave.

I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph. And there's purpose and worth to each and every life.
Ronald Reagan

Now who wants to try to tell me he would be unwelcome here?

410 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:26:29pm

re: #399 brookly red

I know what they are thank you... my huh, was for huh?

We're getting traffic from kos from retweets. If registration were opened up at this point, we'd likely get a number of koslings.

411 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:26:42pm

re: #403 Cato the Elder

Yes, you deed.

Just finished wathing "The Man With A Thousand Faces" (Cagney version). I must of watch that film a 100 times when I was growing up. Still enjoyed it after all these years.

412 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:26:56pm

re: #388 Sharmuta

It's unfortunate that "liberal" is now total package too - one word labels do a lot of harm. Liberal economics is not government, government government - classical liberals love free markets. That problem exists to and has been swept under the carpet - kudos for alligning the situations.

As i look at it
Conservative = small (but not anti-government), baby steps incrementalising one way or another socially or economically. I have always viewed Conservatism (from a western european perspective) as a Managerial type of ideology.

Liberal = Government can solve most problems, in favour of radical plans for legislative change.

413 RexMundi  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:27:00pm

re: #52 dartmydog

Let them tweeet

Let them tweet cake!

Sorry couldn't resist. I deserve all the downdings this one generates.

414 thequis  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:27:02pm

re: #404 Alouette

"Hi, I'm Brad Pitt" doesn't work unless you're Brad Pitt (or you're coming on to a really nearsighted girl)

I tried that, and yeah, does not work. At all!

415 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:27:22pm

re: #411 Walter L. Newton

Walter, I trust your tooth is better?

416 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:27:36pm

re: #406 Jimmah

Many giant pillows will be stained with wingnut tears tonight.

/'So I Married an Axe Murderer' reference ;-)

So, Jimmah, was the father in SIMAAM accurately Scottish?

(yes, I know it was Mike Myers in character ;-P)

417 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:27:55pm

re: #412 wozzablog

Have you ever read The Conscience of a Conservative?

418 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:28:03pm

re: #397 Cato the Elder

That's a hypothetical. He's dead, you know.

He's dead Jim.

419 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:28:04pm

re: #171 MandyManners

Something just occurred to me about my conservative nature. I went ape-shit crazy tonight about the thousands of dollars our elected servants have spent on bottled water. It's a waste of resources, both physical and financial.

In Pelosi's office alone, we spent $2,740.00 for those bottles of water in three months. It's not as if visiting dignitaries and constituents used up all those bottles. The House members and their staff likely were the main consumers.

Given the chance, I--and I suspect many here--could figure out a way to reduce this bit of waste.

I worry much more about waste due to military contracts for equipment and weaponry and kooky projects that will never see the light of day than I do about bottled water. Pelosi could buy a truckload of Evian every day, it would never touch the military-industrial complex. Bottled water and flowers are a grain of sand on the beach.

(and anyone who likes can go ahead and dowding me a million times, I'm not anti-military, I'm anti-military waste)

420 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:28:22pm

re: #412 wozzablog

It's unfortunate that "liberal" is now total package too - one word labels do a lot of harm. Liberal economics is not government, government government - classical liberals love free markets. That problem exists to and has been swept under the carpet - kudos for alligning the situations.

As i look at it
Conservative = small (but not anti-government), baby steps incrementalising one way or another socially or economically. I have always viewed Conservatism (from a western european perspective) as a Managerial type of ideology.

Liberal = Government can solve most problems, in favour of radical plans for legislative change.

Conservative = Regulate people. Deregulate business.
Liberal = Regulate business. Deregulate people.

421 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:28:22pm

re: #410 Sharmuta

We're getting traffic from kos from retweets. If registration were opened up at this point, we'd likely get a number of koslings.

and that is good because?

422 Nadnerb  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:28:34pm

Well, it's about time a bit of a manifesto was heard. It's no crime to say Glenn Beck is a complete, gasoline huffing nut, no crime to call out white supremacists and the connections they make or shine a little light on fundamentalists at work in America, trying to change the Constitution.

LGF is an anti-idiotarian blog, and has therefore exposed the idiots for who they are. Why they are squirming or turning away is obvious. They have to have someone to hate unequivocally.

One thing that takes time in life for this conservative, is to reason and debate without going off the deep end. I sometimes wonder how many die-hard conservatives have any liberal friends. And vice-versa.

423 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:28:37pm

re: #381 cliffster

I used to think Jon Grudin had taken on WAAAY to much of a cheese-turd tone, but he's growing on me.

Passer ratings with 4:05 left in the game:

Brady- 55.0

Brees- 158.3

(And a shot out for our Austin homeboy Drew! Well done, sir!)

424 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:28:41pm

Flounce-O-Meter™ audible reports...

System, overload,
Ready on the left?
Caution -- warning -- overload
Metric bypass computes on overload retrace: cause we're Lost in space.

Folks, we are under attack,
This looks like the big one!

425 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:28:41pm

re: #406 Jimmah

Many giant pillows will be stained with wingnut tears tonight.

Wingnut tears taste like candy!

426 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:28:56pm

re: #416 talon_262

So, Jimmah, was the father in SIMAAM accurately Scottish?

(yes, I know it was Mike Myers in character ;-P)

Yes! Uncannily. Scots love that film.

427 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:29:06pm

re: #382 Ferris

Ronald Reagan lowered taxes, revived the economy, made our military stronger, was tough on our enemies, and made the country feel proud again. Why get down on him?

428 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:29:07pm

re: #409 Rightwingconspirator

This is from his grave.

I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph. And there's purpose and worth to each and every life.
Ronald Reagan

Now who wants to try to tell me he would be unwelcome here?

If he came along with his lying lies about Iran-Contra, I think he might find some hecklers at this site.

Ronald Reagan may have the world's finest sentiment chiseled on his headstone. In life, he was a hypocritical sinner like everyone else.

Don't try to sell me Jesus in a pompadour.

429 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:29:32pm

re: #425 iceweasel

Wingnut tears taste like candy!

Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of wingnuts living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love
And forget how to hate

430 FriarsTale  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:29:35pm

Charles, there is hope
I work with a conservative girl who used to be gung-ho for Beck, but she has slowly realized he's a whacko
I never did much care for the guy

lately I've been turning the radio station at work to classical music

431 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:29:36pm

re: #404 Alouette

"Hi, I'm Brad Pitt" doesn't work unless you're Brad Pitt (or you're coming on to a really nearsighted girl)

Here's a singles ad I put on Craigslist once...

Hi

Look ladies, I have a problem. I have a date tonight with a woman who is probably way over my dating standards. I mean, she's a knockout and I'm... well... I'm a dreeb. I guess I have been playing around with Photoshop too much, but I did a little "fixing" to my picture, sent it to her and now she wants to meet at the Brown Palace tonight at 6:00pm.

My problem is, nothing is going right over here. I'm trying to get into a size 36 pants (I'm a 42), this "Just for Men" stuff must be "Just for Scientists" because I can't get the color to come out right and I accidently dumped a bottle of Fabarge for Men all over myself. Can Fabreze get that smell off of me?

So, if ANY woman has ANY time to hurry over to my house and dress me, I would be in debt to you forever.

I am 31 years old, 32 inch waist, burnette hair, blue eyes, speak four languages, have a passport and private jet... oh boy... I can't help myself.

Just email me and I'll give you my address and phone number.

Signed...

Brad Pitt (darn it... there I go again).

432 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:29:39pm

re: #419 WindUpBird

But the rest of government can waste our money so long as the military doesn't? I think all government waste should be stopped. Why single out the military when they all do it?

433 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:29:39pm

re: #410 Sharmuta

At this moment, is that a bad thing? Maybe not. I am largely ignorant of the blog wars so if have asked something of an old wound... sorry.

434 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:30:05pm

re: #421 brookly red

and that is good because?

More people reading LGF is always a good thing. And not every Kosling is a moonbat.

435 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:30:44pm

re: #412 wozzablog

It's unfortunate that "liberal" is now total package too - one word labels do a lot of harm. Liberal economics is not government, government government - classical liberals love free markets. That problem exists to and has been swept under the carpet - kudos for alligning the situations.

As i look at it
Conservative = small (but not anti-government), baby steps incrementalising one way or another socially or economically. I have always viewed Conservatism (from a western european perspective) as a Managerial type of ideology.

Liberal = Government can solve most problems, in favour of radical plans for legislative change.

I would argue that the liberal position is:

Government can solve SOME problems.

Too often the anti-government bits come through from the rightwing with the implication that government is 100% ineffective at achieving any goals, and their involvement is only going to muck things up. And recently, the Becks of the world have been implying that not only will they muck things up with involvement, but they are ACTIVELY working AGAINST the people.

Liberals think that there are some items which are best left to the government (e.g. fire, police, military). The debate is over the changing extent of government control.

436 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:30:49pm

re: #431 Walter L. Newton

Fantastic!

437 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:30:55pm

re: #381 cliffster

I used to think Jon Grudin had taken on WAAAY to much of a cheese-turd tone, but he's growing on me.

I've always been a Gruden fan as a coach, and I like the analysis he brings to the booth.

438 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:30:55pm

re: #419 WindUpBird

I worry much more about waste due to military contracts for equipment and weaponry and kooky projects that will never see the light of day than I do about bottled water. Pelosi could buy a truckload of Evian every day, it would never touch the military-industrial complex. Bottled water and flowers are a grain of sand on the beach.

(and anyone who likes can go ahead and dowding me a million times, I'm not anti-military, I'm anti-military waste)

Do you have any idea how much more money our federal government is spending than what we make?

439 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:31:00pm

re: #429 Gus 802

Crazy, but that's how it goes
Millions of wingnuts living as foes
Maybe it's not too late
To learn how to love
And forget how to hate

heh.

440 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:31:00pm

I'm a Kosling.

441 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:31:15pm

re: #428 Cato the Elder

If only the perfect were welcome the registration would be 0, zip, nobody.

442 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:31:20pm

re: #418 Gus 802

He's dead Jim.

Despite this, he'd probably beat 50% of the Republican field in 2012.

443 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:31:23pm

re: #415 Rightwingconspirator

Walter, I trust your tooth is better?

Since this morning? Yes. The dentist found that the oral surgeon from last week left a loose bone fragment in the socket, therefore it didn't heal right and I got dry socket and it became infected. So he packed it with medicine and gave me an antibiotic and happy pills. I feel better.

444 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:31:28pm

re: #325 talon_262

Love Necromancer...had to read it in college.

You were ASSIGNED Neuromancer in college?!? AWESOME. I stayed up all night for weeks when I was a teenager reading Neuromancer, Mona Lisa Overdrive, Count Zero... the classic paperpacks with Rick Berry's pioneering digital art on the cover :D

445 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:31:34pm

re: #423 austin_blue

Passer ratings with 4:05 left in the game:

Brady- 55.0

Brees- 158.3

(And a shot out for our Austin homeboy Drew! Well done, sir!)

I believe this is the first time in History that 2 teams are 11-0...

446 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:31:39pm

re: #417 Sharmuta

i'm ashamed to say i haven't. it's on my very long list to read though.

447 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:31:43pm

re: #384 iceweasel

Heh. Also this has never been more appropriate!

Yes, Flounce-O-Meter™ advises, permissible environment,

Agent JimIce: deploy ButtHurt videos.

448 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:31:53pm

I'm very tempted to open registration, just to see if things will finally get weird enough for me.

449 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:00pm

re: #406 Jimmah

Many giant pillows will be stained with wingnut tears tonight.

/'So I Married an Axe Murderer' reference ;-)

It's like an orange on a toothpick!

450 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:10pm

re: #341 jpwhitmore

Charles
But what exactly does this mean besides no longer associating with or supporting the religious right and all the people mentioned above? I've been asking myself this question since I had my own parting with the right and wondered what you think. Because for me at least I feel like my political views haven't changed. It's the people around me. Sorry if someone else has asked something similar in this dense thread.

Three years after your registration and 14 posts you ask these questions. One has to wonder why you popped up this evening? No offense, but if you spent any time here you would know why the question was asked.

451 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:21pm

re: #432 Sharmuta

But the rest of government can waste our money so long as the military doesn't? I think all government waste should be stopped. Why single out the military when they all do it?

How many drive-able clunkers did you and I purchase just to get smashed into rubble?

452 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:41pm

re: #438 cliffster

Do you have any idea how much more money our federal government is spending than what we make?


uhhh yes. I have all this grey mooshy stuff in my skull, and I'm told it actually serves a purpose. 9_9

Do you disagree with the notion of worrying about billions in waste before we worry about thousands in waste?

453 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:42pm

re: #448 Charles

I'm very tempted to open registration, just to see if things will finally get weird enough for me.

Do it! Do it! Do it!

454 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:42pm

My new "little" grandson looks like Eric Cartman. Gah.

I'm sure he'll be gorgeous, all newborns have a swollen face.

455 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:44pm

re: #443 Walter L. Newton

Since this morning? Yes. The dentist found that the oral surgeon from last week left a loose bone fragment in the socket, therefore it didn't heal right and I got dry socket and it became infected. So he packed it with medicine and gave me an antibiotic and happy pills. I feel better.

I'll bet you feel reeeaaalll happy.

456 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:57pm

re: #420 recusancy

Conservative = Regulate people. Deregulate business.
Liberal = Regulate business. Deregulate people.

Oh, come on.
Liberals want to regulate people and behavior as much as conservatives.
It's just a different set of behaviors.

457 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:32:57pm

re: #448 Charles

I'm very tempted to open registration, just to see if things will finally get weird enough for me.

You mean to say you haven't had a big enough influx of hate mail from this post? Color me surprised.

458 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:33:01pm

re: #423 austin_blue

Passer ratings with 4:05 left in the game:

Brady- 55.0

Brees- 158.3

(And a shot out for our Austin homeboy Drew! Well done, sir!)

isn't 159 "perfect" passer rating?

They really need to normalize the scale on a -100 to 100 scale.

459 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:33:10pm

re: #443 Walter L. Newton

Excellent. Sucks when dental goes awry.

460 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:33:13pm

re: #426 Jimmah

Yes! Uncannily. Scots love that film.

461 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:33:13pm

re: #415 Rightwingconspirator

Walter, I trust your tooth is better?

Or, have you run out of Vicodein?

462 Digital Display  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:33:13pm

re: #448 Charles

I'm very tempted to open registration, just to see if things will finally get weird enough for me.

Do it! I dare you! *wink*

463 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:33:18pm

re: #433 Rightwingconspirator

At this moment, is that a bad thing? Maybe not. I am largely ignorant of the blog wars so if have asked something of an old wound... sorry.

Nope, it's not bad at all. There have been a number of pro-LGF posts on Kos by diarists and at least three positive references by Kos in the last few months. Some of the people there (as on any big site) are nutjobs of course, but not all.
And as mentioned above-- more people reading LGF can only be a good thing.

464 acwgusa  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:33:27pm

re: #428 Cato the Elder


Don't try to sell me Jesus in a pompadour.

Wow. I just got the weirdest mental image from that line. Now I can't get the image of Jesus with Elvis hair out of my head.

465 Ferris  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:33:38pm

re: #427 NJDhockeyfan

It's funny you think I'm getting down on him. I'm not.

I'm not a religious person but I don't find it disqualifying for positions of public trust (even if they are "creationists").

I was just engaging people who were saying Reagan would be welcome here. Given the level of hostility here to politicians who hold similar beliefs today, I see no reason to think Reagan would be exempt.

466 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:02pm

re: #454 Alouette

My new "little" grandson looks like Eric Cartman. Gah.

I'm sure he'll be gorgeous, all newborns have a swollen face.

Oh, he's quite beautiful!
I wanna reach out and give him a hug.

467 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:03pm

re: #448 Charles

I'm very tempted to open registration, just to see if things will finally get weird enough for me.

Glutton!

468 EastSider  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:08pm

re: #448 Charles

I'm very tempted to open registration, just to see if things will finally get weird enough for me.

You could try it, and have a "1 post no banning" open thread to discuss tonight's events.

Let the world see just how crazy the crazies are.

469 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:10pm

re: #448 Charles

I'm very tempted to open registration, just to see if things will finally get weird enough for me.

Give it a day or two. You'll be swamped flicking off the idiots for a long time...well unless the point is to have a fun time with it, then go ahead.

470 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:25pm

re: #434 iceweasel

More people reading LGF is always a good thing. And not every Kosling is a moonbat.

There are 'koslings' here on LGF already. I don't think it's for any poster here to take it upon themselves to try to make them feel unwelcome. LGF has been appealing to a broader range of contributers from both left an right of centre for a long time now.

471 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:31pm

re: #452 WindUpBird

uhhh yes. I have all this grey mooshy stuff in my skull, and I'm told it actually serves a purpose. 9_9

Do you disagree with the notion of worrying about billions in waste before we worry about thousands in waste?

"One office" vs "Defending US Interests The World Over".

472 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:36pm

re: #448 Charles

I'm very tempted to open registration, just to see if things will finally get weird enough for me.

I think Peak Weird might hit tomorrow, when this post is climbing memeorandum. Just a guess though...

473 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:37pm

re: #441 Rightwingconspirator

If only the perfect were welcome the registration would be 0, zip, nobody.

Doubtless.

Just don't try to sell me your Conservative Spirit of Christmas Past. I was there. I remember Reagan. He is one of the principle founders of Al Qaeda.

"Blowback" is not just a description of an aged actor's hairdo, you know.

474 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:39pm

re: #456 reine.de.tout

Oh, come on.
Liberals want to regulate people and behavior as much as conservatives.
It's just a different set of behaviors.

But the liberals think the money in your pocket belongs to them.

475 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:47pm

re: #455 EmmmieG

I'll bet you feel reeeaaalll happy.

I'm fine. I have a high tolerance for pain killers, so it really takes a good dose for me to get a good buzz going.

By the way, my mail server has been hiccuping this evening and I sent you an email earlier that bounced... so I'll ask you here...

Did you get your package of rocks?

476 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:34:48pm

re: #421 brookly red

and that is good because?

What if they're anti-Israel, she said in a tiny little voice.

/not at all

477 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:35:12pm

re: #433 Rightwingconspirator

At this moment, is that a bad thing? Maybe not. I am largely ignorant of the blog wars so if have asked something of an old wound... sorry.

We wouldn't know until they were here. Maybe some of them will even tolerate conservatives.

478 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:35:12pm

Linked at Boing Boing: [Link: www.boingboing.net...]

479 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:35:16pm

re: #434 iceweasel

More people reading LGF is always a good thing. And not every Kosling is a moonbat.

OK, I won't argue with that premise... would you pass me a can of that new coke please?

480 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:35:25pm

re: #456 reine.de.tout

PC tyranny. Just as odious as Jerry Falwell.

481 webevintage  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:35:34pm

re: #454 Alouette

My new "little" grandson looks like Eric Cartman. Gah.

Hee...
He's perfect!

482 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:36:02pm

re: #459 Rightwingconspirator

Excellent. Sucks when dental goes awry.

But on the plus side it, dentistry, is proof positive against Intelligent Design.

483 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:36:29pm

re: #440 recusancy

I'm a Kosling.

/no shit?

484 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:36:37pm

re: #477 Sharmuta

We wouldn't know until they were here. Maybe some of them will even tolerate conservatives.

I believe Keith Gabryelski is/was a kosling. And I find him to be quite agreeable, even when we don't agree.

485 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:36:40pm

re: #465 Ferris

It's funny you think I'm getting down on him. I'm not.

I'm not a religious person but I don't find it disqualifying for positions of public trust (even if they are "creationists").

I was just engaging people who were saying Reagan would be welcome here. Given the level of hostility here to politicians who hold similar beliefs today, I see no reason to think Reagan would be exempt.

I find that a good reason to distrust that particular politician. I don't generally like voting on single issues, but this issue in particular tells me the politician cannot think outside their religion.

486 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:36:43pm

re: #448 Charles

And, if that doesn't get wierd enough?
Do you have a back up plan?
LOL!

487 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:36:43pm

re: #461 Naso Tang

Or, have you run out of Vicodein?

See #443

488 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:36:45pm

re: #432 Sharmuta

But the rest of government can waste our money so long as the military doesn't? I think all government waste should be stopped. Why single out the military when they all do it?

I don't want waste anywhere. I just believe that there's a great deal of waste in our military that is off limits to talk about for political and pork reasons. Because we want a strong military, because it's ideologically consistent with most peoples' views of America, it's easy to overlook or justify the waste in the military.

And I certainly don't see the point in, as I said above, worrying about 30 grand in spending on refreshments in a few months from Pelosi or Boehner's office as we're flushing billions down the toilet.

In painting, you're always told to start with big gestures and then worry about detail later.

489 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:36:59pm

re: #479 brookly red

OK, I won't argue with that premise... would you pass me a can of that new coke please?

Here you go. The first grilled troll is now ready. What slices do you want?

490 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:13pm

re: #449 SanFranciscoZionist

It's like an orange on a toothpick!

I saw SIMAAM for the first time in the theater in Ireland. I myself am from SF. It was insane.

Plus, they don't have theater popcorn in Ireland, which is really hard to handle.

491 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:13pm

Ugh. Next week? Baltimore/Green Bay.

492 jpwhitmore  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:21pm

re: #450 Naso Tang

Not exactly sure what you're implying. I kind of stopped reading for a while until the '08 elections but since then I read every day. My point was I feel lost. There is no political movement I can identify with. I don't dare call myself a conservative anymore nor a republican. So what now? That is what I was asking.

493 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:27pm

re: #447 Bagua

Yes, Flounce-O-Meter™ advises, permissible environment,

Agent JimIce: deploy ButtHurt videos.

heh. Here's the Orange Alert, featuring O'reilly.

494 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:30pm

re: #473 Cato the Elder

We were both "there". Seeing things differently obviously. But I'd rather debate the future or the present.

495 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:34pm

re: #485 BryanS

I find that a good reason to distrust that particular politician. I don't generally like voting on single issues, but this issue in particular tells me the politician cannot think outside their religion.

Would you have distrusted Newton, he was big into proving the date of the end of the world.

496 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:43pm

re: #460 talon_262

Great clip, even though it reproduces the heinous lie that the Bay City Rollers were in any way connected with Scotland. ;-)

497 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:37:57pm

re: #481 webevintage

Hee...
He's perfect!

He's big-boned.

498 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:38:26pm

re: #465 Ferris


I was just engaging people who were saying Reagan would be welcome here. Given the level of hostility here to politicians who hold similar beliefs today, I see no reason to think Reagan would be exempt.

Well, I for one would be strongly critical of some of RWR's policies were he in office today. As a human though he appeared to be far classier than the average tea partier today.

499 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:38:36pm

re: #425 iceweasel

Wingnut tears taste like candy!

Wingnuts on the beach, there's nothing better
But I like wingnuts when it's wrapped in a sweater
Some day soon I'll make you mine,
Then I'll have wingnuts all the time

I want wingnuts, I want wingnuts
I want wingnuts, I want wingnuts...

/Bow Wow Wow - OK, relax folks this is a joke. ;)

//

500 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:39:10pm

re: #488 WindUpBird

I don't want waste anywhere. I just believe that there's a great deal of waste in our military that is off limits to talk about for political and pork reasons. Because we want a strong military, because it's ideologically consistent with most peoples' views of America, it's easy to overlook or justify the waste in the military.

And I certainly don't see the point in, as I said above, worrying about 30 grand in spending on refreshments in a few months from Pelosi or Boehner's office as we're flushing billions down the toilet.

In painting, you're always told to start with big gestures and then worry about detail later.

Silly man. Anything the military asks for, it gets. The military is sacred. Nothing is too good for our men and women in uniform.

Except for decent psychiatrists who don't shoot them.

501 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:39:22pm

re: #296 avanti

I don't disagree with you, but many have tried, and failed. Just a simple change to allow Medicare allow competition for drugs and equipment could save billions, but neither side can get a bill passed to allow it. Punishing agencies with money left in their budget is another small example. If they have a million left over, then their budget might be reduced by a million, so they spend it on crap.

Or, if an actual cut threatens to come into being, they simply shut down their essential services, to extort the funding back into their budget. Which is why the Park Service will close national monuments for "lack of funding", but continue to boot cars.

502 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:39:42pm

re: #491 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ugh. Next week? Baltimore/Green Bay.

That will be good.(MNF) ESPN just said Bobby Bowden will retire from FSU tomorrow, BTW.

503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:39:56pm

re: #497 Alouette

So's a Stegosaurus.
/
Really, congrats.

My son was three weeks early, 9lbs 3 ozs. Was in a preemie ward. I swear, he looked like he could eat the other babies.

504 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:39:56pm

re: #492 jpwhitmore

Not exactly sure what you're implying. I kind of stopped reading for a while until the '08 elections but since then I read every day. My point was I feel lost. There is no political movement I can identify with. I don't dare call myself a conservative anymore nor a republican. So what now? That is what I was asking.

We are politically homeless. We have nothing to identify with.

505 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:12pm

re: #495 Walter L. Newton

Would you have distrusted Newton, he was big into proving the date of the end of the world.

As a politician, yes.

And he got the law of gravity wrong--the silly fool //

506 aristopheles  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:13pm

Charles -

I wrote you a while back asking for something exactly like this. I don't necessarily disagree with most of your current points, although I do disagree with where you've taken them. On the other hand, I very much appreciate your having written this out. Bravo, and many thanks.

507 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:31pm

re: #502 Cannadian Club Akbar

That will be good.(MNF) ESPN just said Bobby Bowden will retire from FSU tomorrow, BTW.

Charlie got fired from Notre Dame.

508 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:35pm

re: #423 austin_blue

Passer ratings with 4:05 left in the game:

Brady- 55.0

Brees- 158.3

(And a shot out for our Austin homeboy Drew! Well done, sir!)

Speaking about Texans, how did you like Vince Young's performance last night? He pulled it out for the Titans with that final drive and the pass to Britt in the end zone with time expired...

/as a Nashvillian and a Titans fan, I'm loving it

509 Bob Dillon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:37pm

re: #478 Charles

Linked at Boing Boing: [Link: www.boingboing.net...]

"An extraordinary moment in the political blogosphere,"

Moment?

LGF is an island of sanity - Thanks Charles.

510 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:43pm

re: #486 Floral Giraffe

And, if that doesn't get wierd enough?
Do you have a back up plan?
LOL!

I have a backup plan. It starts with all the Lizards drinking three shots of tequila. Then we all go over to the bad blog of our choice--left, right, don't matter none.

Then the fun starts!

///I don't have any tequila. I've got some grappa.

511 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:45pm

re: #502 Cannadian Club Akbar

That will be good.(MNF) ESPN just said Bobby Bowden will retire from FSU tomorrow, BTW.

WHAT?!?! I thought he was gonna hold on for another year.

512 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:40:49pm

re: #489 Dark_Falcon

Here you go. The first grilled troll is now ready. What slices do you want?

the left brain please... oh and some fava beans if you would be so kind.

513 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:41:04pm

re: #477 Sharmuta

a very good friend of mine has a Kos diary and when i I read him i surf a couple of threads once a week. does that make me a kosling?

514 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:41:05pm

re: #473 Cato the Elder
One more thing.
Osama founded Al Qaeda. Helping the Afghans as a part of superpower policy happens to be a current policy as well. Shall we blame Obama for afghan heroine on our streets? Seems the same.

515 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:41:12pm

re: #487 Walter L. Newton

See #443

Shit happens. Sorry.

516 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:41:23pm

re: #488 WindUpBird

GAH! You're making sense, and I had to upding you!

517 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:41:44pm

re: #496 Jimmah

Great clip, even though it reproduces the heinous lie that the Bay City Rollers were in any way connected with Scotland. ;-)

The Bay City Rollers weren't that bad ;-P

518 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:41:59pm

re: #490 SanFranciscoZionist

I saw SIMAAM for the first time in the theater in Ireland. I myself am from SF. It was insane.

Plus, they don't have theater popcorn in Ireland, which is really hard to handle.

Really? That is weird!
They sell beer though, right? (theatres I've been to in england have).

519 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:42:04pm

re: #513 wozzablog

a very good friend of mine has a Kos diary and when i I read him i surf a couple of threads once a week. does that make me a kosling?

I'm a conservative. Does that make me a leper?

520 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:42:21pm

re: #511 Girth

WHAT?!?! I thought he was gonna hold on for another year.

Got me. You in Florida?

521 nogendavid  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:42:31pm

Reminds me (if I recall correctly) of a passage in Gore Vidal's biography of Lincoln, where the narrator character is so offended by the fanaticism and intolerance of an abolitions that he become antiabolitionist.

But the question for the narrator remained what affirmatively to think and do about slavery and secession.

Fair enough to identify nuttiness on the right, but the fact that a position is held by a right wing nut does not in itself show it is mistaken. Obama's views on foreign policy are misguided and mistaken. Beating up on allies (UK, Israel, Czech Republic, Poland) and deal gently with enemy regimes, apologzing constantly for the US' past, failing to present a credible moral or military threat to Iran's nuclear regimes...these are more than serious problems. The prospect of a final Holocaust, launched by the genuinely insane regime in Iran is not vitiated by the lunacy of populist "right wing" nutbars. It is not irrational to have oncerns about whether Obama is an abject failure in dealing with any of it - by genuinely supporting t he democracy movement and convincing Iran there is a real price to be paid.

And is not wrong either to be extremely concerned about the consequences of t he fiscal reckleness of the current Democratic regime, which outruns by orders of magnitude the irresponsibility of the Republicans over the last decade - which in itself was deplorable.
American cannot survive as a great power - and historically it has been a great power for good - when it is debilitated fiscallly and dependence on the kindness of foreign debtors.

Strangely enough, C harles, I mostly stopped reading and posting on LGF for a while because at times there seemed to be too many posts that were moving in a Beckian direction. But with genuine respect, which you may not reciprocate, there remains an abiding truth to many LGF's values: among them opposition to religious intolerance, concern for rationalism and accuracy in reporting, support for an existentially threatened Israel.

The only point on your list that I disagree with -- and no doubt th is will bring on the usual splay of downdings and ad hominen attacks - is that I do think a reasonable person, and not only irrationalists, can have serious questions about the reliability and precision of projections concerning climate change and the role human activity has to play in it. I have read your comments seriously, reviewed more of the the literature, and even if my non-expert assessment turns out to be mistaken, I do think agnostics like me deserve to be typecast and dismissed on an ad hominem basis rather than responded to on the merits. And it is in my view important to be concerned about excessivel climatic pessmisim, because the measures we take to address global warming can have their own consequences. Growth has more t han material advantages - it prolongs life, diminishes misery and creates societies that are more sympathetic to environmental protection.

Sorry if I flunk the 10/10 purity test, Charles, and respond as you wish, I will continue to be grateful for what LGF has already accomplished. I am not a purity tester myself, and intend to keep checking in.

522 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:42:40pm

re: #507 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Charlie got fired from Notre Dame.

Weis was a dead man walking for weeks.

523 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:42:49pm

re: #506 aristopheles

I don't necessarily disagree with most of your current points, although I do disagree with where you've taken them.

Where have they been taken? Inquiring minds want to know.

524 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:43:01pm

re: #475 Walter L. Newton

I'm fine. I have a high tolerance for pain killers, so it really takes a good dose for me to get a good buzz going.

By the way, my mail server has been hiccuping this evening and I sent you an email earlier that bounced... so I'll ask you here...

Did you get your package of rocks?

Yes, I did. I should have sent you an email. Very very sorry if I didn't.

525 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:43:18pm

I can't get over how cool it is that William Gibson tweeted this. Wow!

526 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:43:32pm

re: #510 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, get going then!
LOL!

527 avanti  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:43:51pm

The down side of this is I registered to fight tooth and nail with the wacky right, and mostly all we have left here are reasonable conservatives, moderates and lefties. Someone call me a Commie again, just for old times sake.

528 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:43:56pm

re: #508 talon_262

Speaking about Texans, how did you like Vince Young's performance last night? He pulled it out for the Titans with that final drive and the pass to Britt in the end zone with time expired...

/as a Nashvillian and a Titans fan, I'm loving it

Vince is THE MAN.

529 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:44:17pm

re: #521 nogendavid

Are you f**king kidding me?

530 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:44:21pm

re: #521 nogendavid

I dinged you down for calling it a purity test.

531 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:44:28pm

re: #527 avanti

The down side of this is I registered to fight tooth and nail with the wacky right, and mostly all we have left here are reasonable conservatives, moderates and lefties. Someone call me a Commie again, just for old times sake.

Commie!

532 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:44:41pm

re: #527 avanti

The down side of this is I registered to fight tooth and nail with the wacky right, and mostly all we have left here are reasonable conservatives, moderates and lefties. Someone call me a Commie again, just for old times sake.

Commie asshole!

533 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:44:57pm

The problem is not that people are taxed too little, the problem is that government spends too much.
- Ronald Reagan

534 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:45:11pm

re: #530 Sharmuta

I dinged you down for calling it a purity test.

That's risible, coming from you.

535 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:45:25pm

re: #513 wozzablog

a very good friend of mine has a Kos diary and when i I read him i surf a couple of threads once a week. does that make me a kosling?

I suspect a lot of people who condemn the whole site don't realise just how gigantic it is.

536 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:45:42pm

re: #512 brookly red

the left brain please... oh and some fava beans if you would be so kind.

Certainly. Would you like Chianti with that?

537 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:45:45pm

re: #508 talon_262

Speaking about Texans, how did you like Vince Young's performance last night? He pulled it out for the Titans with that final drive and the pass to Britt in the end zone with time expired...

/as a Nashvillian and a Titans fan, I'm loving it

My aunt & uncle have had season tickets to the Titans since they moved there. They are huge fans.

538 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:45:48pm

re: #478 Charles

Linked at Boing Boing: [Link: www.boingboing.net...]

Cory Doctorow and Gibson are tight as ticks. Not surprised at that link. Next up will be Beyond the Beyond (Sterling) and Rudy Rucker's musings.

539 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:14pm

re: #527 avanti

The down side of this is I registered to fight tooth and nail with the wacky right, and mostly all we have left here are reasonable conservatives, moderates and lefties. Someone call me a Commie again, just for old times sake.

You drove the wackys away, avanti.

540 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:18pm

re: #533 Racer X

The problem is not that people are taxed too little, the problem is that government spends too much.
- Ronald Reagan

Spending didn't decrease during his administration.

541 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:22pm

re: #533 Racer X

Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through the walls topped by barbed wire, it wafts across the electrified borders.
Ronald Reagan

542 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:36pm

re: #504 Sharmuta

We are politically homeless. We have nothing to identify with.

Ain’t go no home,
in this world anymore

543 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:37pm

re: #527 avanti

The down side of this is I registered to fight tooth and nail with the wacky right, and mostly all we have left here are reasonable conservatives, moderates and lefties. Someone call me a Commie again, just for old times sake.

You're a commie.

Feel better?

544 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:44pm

re: #527 avanti

The down side of this is I registered to fight tooth and nail with the wacky right, and mostly all we have left here are reasonable conservatives, moderates and lefties. Someone call me a Commie again, just for old times sake.

Commie! Pinko!

//
Since when have you ever fought tooth and nail with anyone? You're a gentleman even in the heat of battle. :)

545 Irenicum  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:49pm

Wow Charles. I'm late to the party tonight and haven't through the thread. But I wanted to say bravo! And thanks for putting it succinctly and in a list that explains point by point what you're parting from. Anyone with an ounce of sanity would part from that too.

546 acwgusa  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:46:59pm

re: #527 avanti

The down side of this is I registered to fight tooth and nail with the wacky right, and mostly all we have left here are reasonable conservatives, moderates and lefties. Someone call me a Commie again, just for old times sake.

You're not a commie. You're rational and have reasoned discourse. Communists are scary fanatics.

547 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:01pm

re: #540 recusancy

Well of course not. Congress spends too.

548 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:07pm

re: #527 avanti

The down side of this is I registered to fight tooth and nail with the wacky right, and mostly all we have left here are reasonable conservatives, moderates and lefties. Someone call me a Commie again, just for old times sake.

You can do that on Hot Air, but Charles has a much better blog due to his ability to "roll his own".

But you'd know that already if you weren't a Commie :) //

549 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:07pm

re: #504 Sharmuta

i identify entirely.
i am politically homeless in the UK on the Sane Left after the Labour party started cross dressing.

I have empathy from the other sdie of the political spectrum. You keep hanging on hoping things will turn around - you look around for the faces at the front who you could relate with and slowly they dissapear and the people in the party around you change until you have nothing in common with them. People who were on your side adapt to the new, stay stock still or leave - either way it's unfortunately very lonely.

In the UK we have a mainstream third party that picks off dissafected from either side - in the US it looks a much rougher field to till.

550 Decatur Deb  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:07pm

re: #504 Sharmuta

We are politically homeless. We have nothing to identify with.

You have nothing to lose but your lawn sign.

551 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:14pm

re: #508 talon_262

Speaking about Texans, how did you like Vince Young's performance last night? He pulled it out for the Titans with that final drive and the pass to Britt in the end zone with time expired...

/as a Nashvillian and a Titans fan, I'm loving it

Vince needed to grow up, and sitting on the sidelines may have done it. 23-11 as a starter? Not bad, eh?

552 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:17pm

re: #500 Cato the Elder

Silly man. Anything the military asks for, it gets. The military is sacred. Nothing is too good for our men and women in uniform.

Except for decent psychiatrists who don't shoot them.

Or body armor. Or enough money for their families to live on. Or someone to feed their dog while they're away. Or...well, you know. Stuff that costs money.

Thank God wearing patriotic accessories and crying about how much you love the troops doesn't cost any money.

/bitter. My BIL has now got a second job as a fry cook, you know, in his spare time from serving his country. Last year he was overseas, next year he'll be overseas...I think this is his fourth deployment.

553 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:23pm

re: #519 Sharmuta

Nope.

554 Ferris  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:33pm

re: #498 freetoken

Well, I for one would be strongly critical of some of RWR's policies were he in office today. As a human though he appeared to be far classier than the average tea partier today.

Be that as it may, I was simply responding to Sharmuta @235

re: #226 winemaker

How would Ronald Reagan have fared at LGF? Not well, which is illustrative.

Bullshit! Reagan was a Goldwater conservative.

Look at Charles' first 6 points. Given criticism of Reagan during his time, he would have failed those (the rest are more or less specific to today and it's not fair to compare Reagan to today's Republicans and conservatives in those unknowable areas)

555 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:45pm

re: #547 Rightwingconspirator

Well of course not. Congress spends too.

Revenue bills start in the House.

556 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:47:49pm

re: #540 recusancy

Spending didn't decrease during his administration.

Berlin Walls did though

557 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:48:35pm

re: #528 cliffster

Vince is THE MAN.

While I've trusted Jeff Fisher's judgment and still hold it in high regard, I'm glad Bud Adams went over his head to have VY put in as the starter after we went 0-6 under Collins. I'm glad VY got his head together since he was benched last season, because the man has talent...and it shows.

/winning solves a lot of things...

558 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:48:42pm

re: #556 cliffster

Berlin Walls did though

So did taxes.

559 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:48:45pm

re: #547 Rightwingconspirator

Well of course not. Congress spends too.

What?!?

I thought Obama has his own personal Visa card (Aluminum?).

560 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:03pm

re: #555 Sharmuta

Interestingly revenues did hit records at the time. After a huge tax cut.

561 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:05pm

That's a pretty big laundry list of Crazy that the Repubs have to keep swept under the rug.

I tried explaining the Robert Stacy McPain thing to my live-in domestic unit, and she somehow thought it was all guilt by association, and that it was silly to look down on Sarah Palin for her ghostwriter being a colleague of a Neo-Confederate racist shitbag. I tried to paint a correct picture for her of how the right has gone nuttier than a squirrel's Christmas cake, but I suck at explaining stuff.

re: #324 Charles

William Gibson: [Link: twitter.com...]

William Gibson follows LGF (at least a little bit)? Bitchin'.

562 aristopheles  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:17pm

523 (sorry, I don't know how to do the linking to prior posts) - I think I'd generally agree with nogendavid's evaluation in comment 521. Basically, I don't have too much of a beef with a lot of the people Charles has a problem with. What bothers me is that I think there are more urgent issues to cover, and by focusing on the less important, the more important becomes trivialized or ignored. I can appreciate an argument that Charles's current foci are terribly important in that, for the civilizational good guys to win, some minimum of decency is required on the side of the angels. I differ with Charles about where to draw that line, which is why I don't find LGF as relevant or useful as I did.

563 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:38pm

re: #503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

So's a Stegosaurus.
/
Really, congrats.

My son was three weeks early, 9lbs 3 ozs. Was in a preemie ward. I swear, he looked like he could eat the other babies.

One of my coworkers is due Jan. 8. She was out today--early contractions. The administration is in a panic. Did they not NOTICE she was pregnant? She's a tiny little thing, and currently looks like a VW Beetle turned on its side. But in a sweater, and more intellectual.

564 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:47pm

re: #552 SanFranciscoZionist

Or body armor. Or enough money for their families to live on. Or someone to feed their dog while they're away. Or...well, you know. Stuff that costs money.

Thank God wearing patriotic accessories and crying about how much you love the troops doesn't cost any money.

/bitter. My BIL has now got a second job as a fry cook, you know, in his spare time from serving his country. Last year he was overseas, next year he'll be overseas...I think this is his fourth deployment.

Are you saying a yellow ribbon on the back of an Escalade doesn't make him forget all his sorrows, forget all his troubles, forget all his trials, and do the Snoopy dance?

Damn.

565 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:47pm

re: #504 Sharmuta

We are politically homeless. We have nothing to identify with.

Horsefeathers.

I don't know else but, I'm able to figure out how to vote when the time comes to make my mark.

566 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:49pm

re: #535 iceweasel

I suspect a lot of people who condemn the whole site don't realise just how gigantic it is.

Size matters?

567 acwgusa  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:51pm

Dammit, Arrington!

The End Of The CrunchPad

I had money set aside for this!

568 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:57pm

re: #562 aristopheles

(sorry, I don't know how to do the linking to prior posts)

Try clicking on the "reply" or "quote" button.

569 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:49:58pm

How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
- Ronald Reagan

570 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:50:10pm

re: #536 Dark_Falcon

Certainly. Would you like Chianti with that?

yes thank you, you make for a fine host... perhaps we should have a friend for dinner next time?

571 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:50:24pm

re: #562 aristopheles

Well, you can always go to Hot Air if you want to discuss what color dress Michelle Obama wore.

572 nines09  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:50:28pm

There used to be a middle ground. I follow neither left nor right blindly, and am amazed at the lack of shame on both sides of the aisle. Both parties have dirty hands, act as if an election is a coronation, and spend our money like drunken sailors. I mean no disrespect to drunken sailors.
Should be interesting.

573 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:50:54pm

re: #560 Rightwingconspirator

Interestingly revenues did hit records at the time. After a huge tax cut.

Weird how that works, isn't it? Let's raise taxes on the rich and pay for some health care.

574 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:51:14pm

re: #566 Walter L. Newton

Size matters?

Depends. Metric system, or good old normal system? :)
Glad your tooth is better Walter!

575 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:51:24pm

If you're not a liberal when you're young, you don't have a heart. If you're not a conservative when you're old, you don't have a brain.
- Francois Guisot

576 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:51:34pm

re: #492 jpwhitmore

Not exactly sure what you're implying. I kind of stopped reading for a while until the '08 elections but since then I read every day. My point was I feel lost. There is no political movement I can identify with. I don't dare call myself a conservative anymore nor a republican. So what now? That is what I was asking.

You are growing out of those simplistic ideals you had, that is all. Suck it in and do what you think is right, as daddy might have said.

:=)

577 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:51:52pm

re: #500 Cato the Elder

Silly man. Anything the military asks for, it gets. The military is sacred. Nothing is too good for our men and women in uniform.

Except for decent psychiatrists who don't shoot them.

Pushing the envelope, I see.

578 Pawn of the Oppressor  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:52:05pm

re: #527 avanti

The down side of this is I registered to fight tooth and nail with the wacky right, and mostly all we have left here are reasonable conservatives, moderates and lefties. Someone call me a Commie again, just for old times sake.

/runs avanti off the road with his big ol' Chevy pickup

"COMMIE LIBURL!"

579 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:52:07pm

re: #521 nogendavid

I up-dinged you.

580 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:52:08pm

re: #518 iceweasel

Really? That is weird!
They sell beer though, right? (theatres I've been to in england have).

Yeah. Beer you can have. Even popcorn in bags, but not popped in the theater normal popcorn.

Many things I like about Ireland. That's not one of them.

581 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:52:27pm

No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!
Ronald Reagan

582 aristopheles  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:53:02pm

re: #571 Gus 802

Thanks for the advice Sharmuta, and Gus 802, I could care less about Michelle Obama's dress. I care a lot about what her husband is going to do about Iran's drive to get nuclear weapons. I used to read LGF to get caught up on major developments with regard to topics like that. Now I don't, because that's apparently not as interesting to Charles as it used to be. That's completely fair; I was just explaining my own evolution with regard to LGF. Like I said, I am very grateful for his having posted the list which started this thread.

583 avanti  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:53:08pm

re: #501 The Sanity Inspector

Or, if an actual cut threatens to come into being, they simply shut down their essential services, to extort the funding back into their budget. Which is why the Park Service will close national monuments for "lack of funding", but continue to boot cars.

Sometimes waste is accidental. I once ordered a circuit board for a microwave relay site, not knowing they had been out of production for many years. I really just wanted a spare and was not disappointed when it did not show up for a few months. It finally arrived, a one-off remake by a contractor, it was now $22,000 item, not a few hundred. A few months later we installed new transmitters and in the trash went the board with the old transmitters.
Supply would call all the technicians down to supply about once a year for free electronics that were going to be dumped at sea. It would break my heart to see millions of dollars in surplus obsolete stuff trashed.

584 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:53:21pm

re: #555 Sharmuta

Revenue bills start in the House.

The '92 Republicans did good on spending, and the 2000 and after Republicans stunk up the joint.

Republican congress with a Democrat in the white house seemed like a good way to control spending while keeping a check on the crazy.

585 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:53:28pm

re: #562 aristopheles

523 (sorry, I don't know how to do the linking to prior posts) - I think I'd generally agree with nogendavid's evaluation in comment 521. Basically, I don't have too much of a beef with a lot of the people Charles has a problem with. What bothers me is that I think there are more urgent issues to cover, and by focusing on the less important, the more important becomes trivialized or ignored. I can appreciate an argument that Charles's current foci are terribly important in that, for the civilizational good guys to win, some minimum of decency is required on the side of the angels. I differ with Charles about where to draw that line, which is why I don't find LGF as relevant or useful as I did.

The usual response to that is that you should go start your own blog and draw your own lines.

586 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:53:36pm

re: #570 brookly red

yes thank you, you make for a fine host... perhaps we should have a friend for dinner next time?

Indeed, next time we should make a stalker troll the guest of honor at our feast. Broiled or stir fried?

587 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:53:42pm

re: #575 Racer X

re: #581 Rightwingconspirator

Yall are making me very depressed

588 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:53:45pm

re: #573 cliffster

Who cut income taxes more than anyone in the modern era?

Kennedy!

589 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:53:46pm

re: #563 SanFranciscoZionist

upding for a pleasing mental image

looks like a VW Beetle turned on its side. But in a sweater, and more intellectual.

590 avanti  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:53:56pm

re: #531 Gus 802

Commie!

Good.

591 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:53:59pm

re: #357 Sharmuta

Yes- maybe we can pick up a bunch of koslings.

And you never know, a few of 'em might be mature and open-minded enough to give the lgf forum a try. A few might even change their minds about something.

592 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:54:20pm

re: #588 Rightwingconspirator

Who cut income taxes more than anyone in the modern era?

Kennedy!

To be sure, I think the upper bracket was over 80% (90%?)

593 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:54:24pm

re: #582 aristopheles

Thanks for the advice Sharmuta, and Gus 802, I could care less about Michelle Obama's dress. I care a lot about what her husband is going to do about Iran's drive to get nuclear weapons. I used to read LGF to get caught up on major developments with regard to topics like that. Now I don't, because that's apparently not as interesting to Charles as it used to be. That's completely fair; I was just explaining my own evolution with regard to LGF. Like I said, I am very grateful for his having posted the list which started this thread.

You should read the threads. We discuss those topics all the time.

594 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:54:30pm

re: #581 Rightwingconspirator

No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!
Ronald Reagan

I don't have anything to add... just wanted to see this posted one more time.

595 aristopheles  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:54:58pm

re: #585 Naso Tang

I'm sorry Naso, I thought you were interested in clarification of my first comment. I guess not. This kind of exchange is one reason I rarely comment, and will shortly drop out here.

596 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:55:13pm

re: #584 BryanS

I think you mean 94, and the fisc-cons got the boot with Newt Gingrich.

597 lostlakehiker  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:55:27pm
I won’t be going over the cliff with them.

Nor should the establishment Republican party. McCain's nomination was two steps back from the edge. Palin's selection was half a step toward it. The Obama administration is on track to deliver into Republican hands the makings of a substantial comeback. The question will then be whether the Republicans can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

It takes a brave soul to bet that the answer is "no". But after a few lessons, there's bound to be some learning.

Republicans can offer a responsible alternative to Dems on AGW by calling for technical solutions rather than cap-and-trade nonsense, NIMBY flinching at the actual building of wind farms or nuclear plants, and feel-good foolery like Kyoto and now Copenhagen.

Republicans can offer a responsible alternative to Dems on health care by calling for portability, for ending the tie-in between work and insurance and the odd practice of making health care expenditures tax free only when they jump through that particular loophole, and by calling for tort reform.

Republicans can offer a responsible alternative to Dem war policy, if it turns out to be poor policy, but first Obama will have to make a decision. So far, he doesn't have a policy, unless you call drift a policy.

Republicans can offer real education reform by backing merit pay for teachers and school systems. This must be thought out carefully, because it is not fair to reward teachers whose students do well and would have done better with almost anyone else, while punishing teachers whose students do badly but would have done worse with almost anyone else. Good teaching is teaching that results in more measurable progress by the class than would normally have been expected based on past experience with the students in question. Republicans can even pander to the base while not trashing school---just bang away at distortions in the history curriculum and steer the conversation away from evolution, the big bang, and other hot button issues with the know-nothing wing of the GOP. This wing is actually right on a few points, particularly with respect to instruction in history. (The U.S. did not in fact nuke North Korea during the Korean war. Many other fanciful claims have made their way into texts.)

Republicans can offer a responsible alternative to the Dems on fiscal policy. But they don't have to. Almost anything they might come up with will look good compared to the torrent of spending that accomplishes nothing that is now in progress.

598 avanti  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:55:28pm

re: #569 Racer X

How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
- Ronald Reagan

I read Marx and Lenin to understand them, and thus a Catch 22.

599 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:55:36pm

re: #556 cliffster

Berlin Walls did though

Well, yes, but that's because people went out there with sledgehammers. If they did that with spending, it'd...

Let me start this thought over.

600 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:55:47pm

The trouble with Socialism is, sooner or later you run out of other people's money.
- Margaret Thatcher

601 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:55:49pm

re: #552 SanFranciscoZionist

Or body armor. Or enough money for their families to live on. Or someone to feed their dog while they're away. Or...well, you know. Stuff that costs money.

Thank God wearing patriotic accessories and crying about how much you love the troops doesn't cost any money.

/bitter. My BIL has now got a second job as a fry cook, you know, in his spare time from serving his country. Last year he was overseas, next year he'll be overseas...I think this is his fourth deployment.

I have a more serious reply than my "Snoopy dance" quip above.

On Veterans' Day, when all the wankers were crying about how much they luuurve this country and falling all over themselves to thank our soldiers, sailors, airmen, submariners, SEALs, Special Forces and fry cooks for their service, I suggested, here and on Facebook, that people take a hard look at that homeless guy stationed near the entrance to the freeway you take every day.

I mentioned a specific man, who holds a certain place, day after day in Baltimore. I know his story.

And people (not here) told me that he was a fake vet and a fraud and I was a dupe for bringing him food and money.

No yellow ribbon or pious sentiment is too good for our men and women in uniform.

602 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:56:14pm

re: #591 eclectic infidel

A few might even change their minds about something.

Like what?

603 Johnny Empire  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:56:14pm

Problem is, we're stuck in the two-party system. One party is far-left crazy and the other is far-right crazy. Any third-parties that appear end up being even harder-left or right.

So what is to be done?

604 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:56:18pm

re: #594 brookly red

I don't have anything to add... just wanted to see this posted one more time.

Tenacious D:

This is not The Greatest Song in the World, no.
This is just a tribute.

605 carey94tt  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:56:31pm

re: #521 nogendavid

Great thing is that you don't have to go 10 of 10 on purity. It's the 0 fer's with personal attacks that are the bane of reason.

I too turned my liberal friend onto LGF. He now shares in the exchange of reason.

As a skeptic I feel LGF is my home.

606 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:56:31pm

re: #586 Dark_Falcon

Indeed, next time we should make a stalker troll the guest of honor at our feast. Broiled or stir fried?

oh, I was thinking par-boiled & then some BBQ... I got the time.

607 aristopheles  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:56:37pm

re: #593 njdhockeyfan

Good point! I don't have time to read hundreds of comments though - I hardly ever read the comments threads, just the main posts. This topic was something I'd been dying to read, so as you can see, I got interested in the comments as well. My critique comes as a more casual LGF reader than most of the people here.

608 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:56:47pm

re: #598 avanti

I read Marx and Lenin to understand them, and thus a Catch 22.

Cool.

Are you a communist or an anti-communist?

609 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:57:01pm

re: #574 iceweasel

Depends. Metric system, or good old normal system? :)
Glad your tooth is better Walter!

Metric system for accuracy, duodecimal system for making an impression!

610 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:57:24pm

re: #595 aristopheles

I'm sorry Naso, I thought you were interested in clarification of my first comment. I guess not. This kind of exchange is one reason I rarely comment, and will shortly drop out here.

Whine, whine, whine... look, this is not your blog, Charles posts what he wants when he wants to... if you don't like the tone and tenor of this blog, week to week, month to month... then no one is forcing you to be here, are they?

611 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:57:28pm

re: #595 aristopheles

I'm sorry Naso, I thought you were interested in clarification of my first comment. I guess not. This kind of exchange is one reason I rarely comment, and will shortly drop out here.

No clarification was required. Don't flounce just because of me, but if you do, make it noisy.

612 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:57:34pm

re: #527 avanti

The down side of this is I registered to fight tooth and nail with the wacky right, and mostly all we have left here are reasonable conservatives, moderates and lefties. Someone call me a Commie again, just for old times sake.

Commie!
:-)

there ya go.
But you aren't.

613 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:57:44pm

re: #527 avanti

Can I call you "SweetPea" instead?
LOL!

614 acwgusa  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:57:44pm

re: #609 Cato the Elder

Metric system for accuracy, duodecimal system for making an impression!

Feh. Do it in binary. That will impress everyone!

615 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:57:50pm

Well, late to the thread (Scout meeting), but Charles has compiled an impressive list up top there.

'Tis in the Center we shall find common sense.

And yes, I'll post about the Modern Whig Party:

Modern Whig Video:
Modern Whig Home Page

* * * *
And here are the San Gabriel Mountains under an almost full moon, on a clear night.

Good evening all.

616 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:57:53pm

I have a tech question. When I was in Tennessee over the weekend I tried to log on to LGF from my blackberry and couldn't do it. Is there a way do do that? Do I need to download something to make it work? Just asking.

617 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:58:15pm

The comments at Twitter from right-wingers about this post are completely confirming everything I wrote.

618 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:58:18pm

re: #581 Rightwingconspirator

No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!
Ronald Reagan

Do you actually believe RR thought up all these quotes himself? LOL.

He had the same team that wrote his endorsements for Chesterfields.

619 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:58:20pm

re: #611 Naso Tang

No clarification was required. Don't flounce just because of me, but if you do, make it noisy.

Yes, we particularly enjoy the drama queen / rage aspect.

620 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:58:34pm

re: #595 aristopheles

[...] This kind of exchange is one reason I rarely comment, and will shortly drop out here.

Mind the door on your way out.

621 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:58:35pm

re: #596 Sharmuta

I think you mean 94, and the fisc-cons got the boot with Newt Gingrich.

Yeah...the 94' Repubs did good with spending. It's what gave a Clinton his surpluses. The Bush JR era was a disaster. Any POS legislation passed.

622 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:58:44pm

re: #598 avanti

I read Marx and Lenin to understand them, and thus a Catch 22.

your cars are our cars... understand?

623 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:58:53pm

re: #447 Bagua

Yes, Flounce-O-Meter™ advises, permissible environment,

Agent JimIce: deploy ButtHurt videos.

Butthurt as demonstrated by the ever-smarting Anne Coulter :

624 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:59:21pm

for what it's worth, the party crashers at the White House apparently knew President Obama before.

[Link: canadafreepress.com...]

625 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:59:45pm

re: #621 BryanS

Yeah...the 94' Repubs did good with spending. It's what gave a Clinton his surpluses. The Bush JR era was a disaster. Any POS legislation passed.

Dude took years to find his veto pen.

626 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:59:46pm

re: #598 avanti

I read Marx and Lenin to understand them, and thus a Catch 22.

Anyone who hasn't read them is a boor.

They are now being avidly studied on Wall Street, because if you leave out the revolution part, Marx at least understood more about capitalism than any seven MBAs at Goldmine Sacks.

627 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 8:59:54pm

re: #593 njdhockeyfan

You should read the threads. We discuss those topics all the time.

This blog has always been at least partly about the meta: that is, covering the way stories get covered (or don't get covered). That's what Rathergate was, after all. Media analysis and media criticism have always happened here.
Nothing's changed except that the blogosphere itself is now more part of the media than it was a few years ago, so media criticism (including posts here) involves blogospheric criticism now as well-- but some people are behind the curve on that, so they don't always understand why what's posted is important. IMO that's part of the dynamic.

628 Achilles Tang  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:00:11pm

Midnight! Gotta flounce outa here.

629 lostlakehiker  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:00:20pm

re: #521 nogendavid

Reminds me (if I recall correctly) of a passage in Gore Vidal's biography of Lincoln, where the narrator character is so offended by the fanaticism and intolerance of an abolitions that he become antiabolitionist.

But the question for the narrator remained what affirmatively to think and do about slavery and secession.

Fair enough to identify nuttiness on the right, but the fact that a position is held by a right wing nut does not in itself show it is mistaken. Obama's views on foreign policy are misguided and mistaken. Beating up on allies (UK, Israel, Czech Republic, Poland) and deal gently with enemy regimes, apologzing constantly for the US' past, failing to present a credible moral or military threat to Iran's nuclear regimes...these are more than serious problems. The prospect of a final Holocaust, launched by the genuinely insane regime in Iran is not vitiated by the lunacy of populist "right wing" nutbars. It is not irrational to have oncerns about whether Obama is an abject failure in dealing with any of it - by genuinely supporting t he democracy movement and convincing Iran there is a real price to be paid.

And is not wrong either to be extremely concerned about the consequences of t he fiscal reckleness of the current Democratic regime, which outruns by orders of magnitude the irresponsibility of the Republicans over the last decade - which in itself was deplorable.
American cannot survive as a great power - and historically it has been a great power for good - when it is debilitated fiscallly and dependence on the kindness of foreign debtors.

Strangely enough, C harles, I mostly stopped reading and posting on LGF for a while because at times there seemed to be too many posts that were moving in a Beckian direction. But with genuine respect, which you may not reciprocate, there remains an abiding truth to many LGF's values: among them opposition to religious intolerance, concern for rationalism and accuracy in reporting, support for an existentially threatened Israel.

The only point on your list that I disagree with -- and no doubt th is will bring on the usual splay of downdings and ad hominen attacks - is that I do think a reasonable person, and not only irrationalists, can have serious questions about the reliability and precision of projections concerning climate change and the role human activity has to play in it. I have read your comments seriously, reviewed more of the the literature, and even if my non-expert assessment turns out to be mistaken, I do think agnostics like me deserve to be typecast and dismissed on an ad hominem basis rather than responded to on the merits. And it is in my view important to be concerned about excessivel climatic pessmisim, because the measures we take to address global warming can have their own consequences. Growth has more t han material advantages - it prolongs life, diminishes misery and creates societies that are more sympathetic to environmental protection.

Sorry if I flunk the 10/10 purity test, Charles, and respond as you wish, I will continue to be grateful for what LGF has already accomplished. I am not a purity tester myself, and intend to keep checking in.

Huh? How did this earn all those downdings? The post has a valid point about our response to AGW. I take AGW very seriously, but even so, it's quite important to work toward economically effective responses. Steps that purport to help solve AGW, but achieve nothing other than to squander treasure, are lamentable. They will backfire on AGW serious-ists and delay the day when we get the problem pared down to size.

630 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:00:26pm

re: #607 aristopheles

Good point! I don't have time to read hundreds of comments though - I hardly ever read the comments threads, just the main posts. This topic was something I'd been dying to read, so as you can see, I got interested in the comments as well. My critique comes as a more casual LGF reader than most of the people here.

Amazing. You don't have time to read the threads, but you don't like what Charles posts as topics. And evidently you don't contribute worth a shit... and you are going to critique this blog...

631 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:00:36pm

re: #625 Racer X

Dude took years to find his veto pen.

Bush finally found his veto pen in 11/2006.

Not that I'm blaming Bush or anything.

632 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:01:01pm

re: #614 acwgusa

Feh. Do it in binary. That will impress everyone!

If I "do it" in binary, does that mean I'm a machine in bed?

633 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:01:10pm

re: #30 Surabaya Stew

Where's Ojoe with the Whig party when you need him?


I was at a Boy Scout meeting...

634 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:02:13pm

re: #624 _RememberTonyC

for what it's worth, the party crashers at the White House apparently knew President Obama before.

[Link: canadafreepress.com...]

but they got out from under the bus, how?

635 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:02:17pm

re: #595 aristopheles

I'm sorry Naso, I thought you were interested in clarification of my first comment. I guess not. This kind of exchange is one reason I rarely comment, and will shortly drop out here.

Thin skin.

636 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:02:25pm

re: #581 Rightwingconspirator

No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!
Ronald Reagan

Same thing with the taxes that go to pay for those programs!

637 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:02:51pm

John McCain is as middle of the road as it gets in current politics. No wonder he got run over by cars from both sides.

638 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:03:03pm

re: #618 Cato the Elder

Haha! Yes I'm sure he had an excellent team. But I can only wonder who inspired the following for our Rookie In Chief-Reagan or Kennedy?

I can make a firm pledge, under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes.
Barack Obama

639 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:03:28pm

re: #631 Gus 802

Correction. 7/2006

640 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:03:28pm

She knows. She knows I'm trying to Christmas shop online. That's why she keeps loitering around behind me.

How early can I send a 14 year-old to bed?

641 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:03:30pm

re: #634 brookly red

but they got out from under the bus, how?

dunno ...

642 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:03:31pm

re: #633 Ojoe

I was at a Boy Scout meeting...

time for you to do your Modern Whig thing.

643 acwgusa  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:03:44pm

re: #632 Cato the Elder

If I "do it" in binary, does that mean I'm a machine in bed?

NO WAY am I touching that one. There's so many jokes in my head at the moment.

644 reine.de.tout  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:03:58pm

re: #640 EmmmieG

She knows. She knows I'm trying to Christmas shop online. That's why she keeps loitering around behind me.

How early can I send a 14 year-old to bed?

Now would be good.

645 avanti  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:04:04pm

re: #608 Racer X

Cool.

Are you a communist or an anti-communist?

Very anti. The whole concept is simply against human nature. If the state takes care of you, no matter how piss poor you perform, why bust your ass ?
I guess I'm a compassionate capitalist. Encourage folks to make millions or billions, but support a progressive tax. If a millionaire has to cut back his daughter sweet 16 party to a half million dollars to help a poor kid eat, I can deal with that.

646 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:04:04pm

re: #637 Racer X

John McCain is as middle of the road as it gets in current politics. No wonder he got run over by cars from both sides.

Now the rest of us can feel the same way. Don't you feel excited?

647 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:04:16pm

re: #640 EmmmieG

She knows. She knows I'm trying to Christmas shop online. That's why she keeps loitering around behind me.

How early can I send a 14 year-old to bed?

10pm

648 recusancy  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:04:27pm

re: #637 Racer X

John McCain is as middle of the road as it gets in current politics. No wonder he got run over by cars from both sides.

Watch him over the next year. He's going to get teabagged in the primaries. He's probably going to go full crazy to compete.

649 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:04:29pm

re: #601 Cato the Elder

The "Modern" Conservative is pro-foetus and pro-war... but not pro-child or pro-veteran to anywhere near he same extent.

Modern total package media conservatives - and their acolytes - would be more than willing to sign away Roe V Wade but would never fund the extra adoption placements, or neo natal care or counselling.


Same for the Vets - neiether of the current wars was funded by the GOP congress - debt was sold to china and the borrowing never stopped the pissing away of a surplus never stopped. But suddenly they ran out of money for Vets care/homeless shelters and on and on.

Neither principled nor conservative.

650 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:04:31pm

re: #609 Cato the Elder

Metric system for accuracy, duodecimal system for making an impression!

A man after my own heart.
Vivamus, mea Cato, atque amemus,
rumoresque senum seueriorum
omnes unius aestimemus assis.
soles occidere et redire possunt:
nobis cum semel occidit breuis lux,
nox est perpetua una dormienda.
da mi basia mille, deinde centum,
dein mille altera, dein secunda centum,
deinde usque altera mille, deinde centum.
dein, cum milia multa fecerimus,
conturbabimus illa, ne sciamus,
aut ne quis malus inuidere possit,
cum tantum sciat esse basiorum.

651 avanti  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:04:52pm

re: #613 Floral Giraffe

Can I call you "SweetPea" instead?
LOL!

You would be the first.

652 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:05:17pm

re: #646 Sharmuta

Now the rest of us can feel the same way. Don't you feel excited?

I got a tingle up my leg.

653 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:05:30pm

This thread is on Memorandum now.

654 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:05:32pm

re: #649 wozzablog

That's a harsh and broad brush. Seems to me one or the other works, not both at the same time.

655 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:05:34pm

re: #624 _RememberTonyC

Man...that sure sucked tonight. Do you still have your blog, TonyC?

656 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:06:50pm

re: #637 Racer X

John McCain is was as middle of the road as it gets in current politics.

Fixed for accuracy.
I liked McCain back in 2000. No excuses for him for picking Palin-- I've lost all respect for him as a leader.

657 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:07:27pm

re: #645 avanti

Very anti. The whole concept is simply against human nature. If the state takes care of you, no matter how piss poor you perform, why bust your ass ?
I guess I'm a compassionate capitalist. Encourage folks to make millions or billions, but support a progressive tax. If a millionaire has to cut back his daughter sweet 16 party to a half million dollars to help a poor kid eat, I can deal with that.

I take back all those mean things I said to you.

;-)

658 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:08:11pm

_RememberTonyC


dunno ...

watch them... something ain't right here...

659 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:08:39pm

re: #650 iceweasel

If you're going to send me poems like that, young lady, I shall have to have an earnest interview with your fiancé!!!1!

660 avanti  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:08:48pm

re: #657 Racer X

I take back all those mean things I said to you.

;-)

Leave a few, I've been a ass on occasion. I need a beer, Sam Adams anyone ?

661 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:09:06pm

re: #656 iceweasel

Fixed for accuracy.
I liked McCain back in 2000. No excuses for him for picking Palin-- I've lost all respect for him as a leader.

There was no way he was ever going to win - the far right was two steps away from denouncing him. Palin gave him a bump - that quickly evaporated every time she spoke.

662 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:09:12pm

OT : The BBC has posted a video of the egg-throwing incident involving muslim conservative peer Baroness Warsi. Pathetically enough, these assholes claimed not to have thrown any eggs.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

663 lostlakehiker  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:09:19pm

re: #48 The False God

I agree with 1, 2, 3, 4 (minus "climate change denialism," which is bollocks), 5, 6 (minus Fox News [the ENTIRE network?] and most of the tea parties), 7 (minus "climate deniers," as if someone that disagrees is on the same level as saying the Holocaust never happened [really, Charles?]), sort of 8, 9 (though I think that is more accepted in Europe than it is in the United States, as here I don't see much anti-Islamic sentiment, just anti-crazy people sentiment), sort of 10 (racism is a no no, but most of the "anti-Obama" things I see [minus birthirism, which is retarded] have a basis in reality, in that he DOES associate with very nasty people and is pretty much the most liberal president we've had in a long time).

That is why I am not a Republican. But I can't be a Democrat for obvious reasons, either.

That reason is because they are just as crazy, for similar and differing reasons. I weep for our future.

Climate change denialism isn't anything like Holocaust denialism, because Holocaust denialism is a semi-polite-society device for calling for another one. This is what everyone must understand Ahmadinejad to be saying when he mouths words signifying "doubt" as to the events of 1933-1945.

But climate change denialism has much in common with smoking=cancer denialism. There's wishful thinking, there's cherry picking examples, there's smears and ad-hominem arguments. There's also morally innocent confusion. Climate change has taken a century of concerted scientific effort to begin to comprehend. Small wonder that casual readers can go astray, when so many far from casual deceivers are working to mislead. Worse yet, some AGW alarmists (Gore et. al) seem to think that chicken-littlish frenzied warnings are justifiable lies in the service of a greater truth. Those who see through those lies and look no further will be deceived as to the validity of the quiet scientific truth of the case for AGW.

664 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:10:04pm

re: #661 Racer X

There was no way he was ever going to win - the far right was two steps away from denouncing him. Palin gave him a bump - that quickly evaporated every time she spoke.

Now Biden - that's a choice that commands respect.

665 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:10:34pm

re: #640 EmmmieG

Tell her, she can watch, but she'd BETTER not be disappointed on Christmas Day! That'll get rid of her!

666 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:10:56pm

re: #642 Dark_Falcon

Down with both major political parties. Pffiibbittth.™

We need a center party. Most people are in the center. IF there are only two major parties, they each get taken over by right and left loons respectively. The number "2" has no center.

Check out the Modern Whig Party for a center alternative.

Whig Video.

Register as a Whig. You know you want to.

667 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:11:01pm

re: #664 cliffster

Now Biden - that's a choice that commands respect.

LMAO!

668 lostlakehiker  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:11:23pm

re: #190 Slim_Junior

Seriously, Charles, no offense, but I'd like to explore the question of how much you were actually with the Right before you "parted ways" with them. You're trashing rightwingers all day long, but you have surprisingly little criticism for the party that's actually in control of the federal government, many state governments and most major cities. Barack Obama has laid out his domestic agenda very clearly. Is there anything about it you disagree with? I've seen no evidence so far that there is.

See the careful post setting forth questions about the healthcare bill. If you want just one good example.

669 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:11:43pm

re: #654 Rightwingconspirator

"Modern Total Package Media Conservatives " always manage to tell the base what they want to hear - no matter that there are three bases to the Republican party.

"The Iraq war is great but we can't overturn the Bush taxcut that plumeted the country in to a deficit because..."

Pro-war and Pro-taxcuts - regardless of the economic
situation.

When was the last time you saw a professional conservative pundit talk about the sanctity of life and immediately afterwards saying that they will pay for all extra children carried to term who will need schooling, neo and post natal care, adoptions services and the mothers counselling in case of rape.

It's action without consequence for the Media Con's that filters downwards into the teabaggers.

670 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:11:56pm

re: #667 Sharmuta

Biden/Reid 2012!

671 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:11:58pm

re: #666 Ojoe

Down with both major political parties. Pffiibbittth.™

We need a center party. Most people are in the center. IF there are only two major parties, they each get taken over by right and left loons respectively. The number "2" has no center.

Check out the Modern Whig Party for a center alternative.

Whig Video.

Register as a Whig. You know you want to.

No, I want the answer to that position statement I asked you about months ago and you promised you would find out for me.

Never got it from you. And I have asked a number of times.

672 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:12:03pm

re: #664 cliffster

Now Biden - that's a choice that commands respect.

673 AJStrata  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:12:33pm

CJ,

Funny - I see 10 reasons for you to save conservatism.

We can do this, just don't give up. You are a well respected voice. They may not deserve your support, but they need it. We can fix those problems. But only if you want to try. Don't succumb.

Your friend and ally - AJStrata

674 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:13:05pm

re: #666 Ojoe

Down with both major political parties. Pffiibbittth.™

We need a center party. Most people are in the center. IF there are only two major parties, they each get taken over by right and left loons respectively. The number "2" has no center.

Check out the Modern Whig Party for a center alternative.

Whig Video.

Register as a Whig. You know you want to.

you do know that was the 666 post don't you...

675 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:13:28pm

re: #664 cliffster

Now Biden - that's a choice that commands respect.

If only for the sheer entertainment value of that gaffe-master.

676 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:13:55pm

re: #673 AJStrata

Well said.

677 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:13:55pm

re: #662 Jimmah

OT : The BBC has posted a video of the egg-throwing incident involving muslim conservative peer Baroness Warsi. Pathetically enough, these assholes claimed not to have thrown any eggs.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Wow!

It looks as though those bearded guys really would have stoned her given the chance.

678 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:14:02pm

re: #661 Racer X

There was no way he was ever going to win - the far right was two steps away from denouncing him. Palin gave him a bump - that quickly evaporated every time she spoke.


Very true. He picked her to placate people like Dobson. Now those people (and Palin) are like Frankenstein's monster and are out of control.

Sucks too. I had genuinely liked him back in 2000 and felt bad for him when he got sandbagged by Rove et al in the SC primaries (the 'black daughter' smear).

679 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:14:07pm

re: #671 Walter L. Newton

The one about "states rights"?

680 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:14:10pm

g'night all.


have a good one.

681 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:14:11pm
682 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:14:29pm

re: #666 Ojoe

The number "2" has no center.

What's the "center" of a number?

683 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:14:34pm

re: #673 AJStrata

CJ,

Funny - I see 10 reasons for you to save conservatism.

We can do this, just don't give up. You are a well respected voice. They may not deserve your support, but they need it. We can fix those problems. But only if you want to try. Don't succumb.

Your friend and ally - AJStrata

I agree.

684 brookly red  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:15:20pm

re: #682 Girth

What's the "center" of a number?

.5

685 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:15:30pm

Back from a 10-day family visit overseas, and a belated thanks for the well-wishes.

The points in Charles' post are well taken. At some other time, I'd appreciate a more introspective post about how he got here. (Maybe someone can direct me to it if I missed it.) I don't believe that the "I didn't change, everyone else did" line is quite accurate. For a number of years, like most of the rest of us original gang, Charles was in a blue fury about The Religion of Peace, and the jihadist precepts it engenders in the so-inclined around the world. Creeping shariah, too: Remember that poll up there in the upper left, about which European country would be the first to come under Islamic religious rule? I know he's still concerned about all those things, and there's certainly nothing wrong with a blog evolving, but the alarm--passion, if you will--in his blogging is elsewhere now.

686 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:15:37pm

re: #675 BryanS

If only for the sheer entertainment value of that gaffe-master.

It's all fun and games until someone loses a trillion dollars.

687 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:15:40pm

re: #664 cliffster

Now Biden - that's a choice that commands respect.


Just as all those Indian software designers, engineers and doctors 7-11 clerks.

688 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:15:47pm

re: #682 Girth

Odd numbers have a center. count in from the top and bottom. If you get a digit in the middle, that's the center. 3 is the center of 5 for instance.

689 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:16:16pm

Work accident of the day:

One Palestinian killed, three wounded in Gaza explosion

Gaza - One Palestinian militant was killed and three were wounded Monday night in a mysterious explosion in a car that drove west of Gaza city, eyewitnesses and medics said.

The witnesses said that four militants were riding in a minibus in Shatti refugee camp west of Gaza City when the explosion wrecked the bus.

Sources said that the dead militant was a member of Islamic Jihad (Holy War) and that the minibus was full of explosives which detonated due to technical problem.

690 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:16:40pm

re: #390 talon_262

Haha, Cato...I realized my mistake when SFZ replied.

Neuromancer is a great SF book, IMO, though.

It is indeed. May I also recommend Cryptonomicon (hope I got it right this time) and Dahlgren? The latter is much older and NSFW, but it will blow your tubes.

691 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:16:51pm

re: #669 wozzablog

"Modern Total Package Media Conservatives " always manage to tell the base what they want to hear - no matter that there are three bases to the Republican party.

"The Iraq war is great but we can't overturn the Bush taxcut that plumeted the country in to a deficit because..."

Pro-war and Pro-taxcuts - regardless of the economic
situation.

When was the last time you saw a professional conservative pundit talk about the sanctity of life and immediately afterwards saying that they will pay for all extra children carried to term who will need schooling, neo and post natal care, adoptions services and the mothers counselling in case of rape.

It's action without consequence for the Media Con's that filters downwards into the teabaggers.

Because a pundit is just that, a pundit, and his/her mission is to make points, not your points, or points you would like to hear, but the points they want to make. Duh.

You what does your comment prove? Do you think a liberal pundit would be inclined to make a conservative point just to balance out thier argument?

Make some sense please.

692 AJStrata  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:17:02pm

BTW - if you feel like talking (yeah, I know - presumptuous) you have my email. You need to help fix the 'right'.

693 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:17:03pm

WOW!
3327 retweets, according to the counter!

AVALANCHE!
INCOMING!

694 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:17:03pm

re: #688 Ojoe

69?

695 Irish Rose  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:17:13pm

I concur, and I also refuse to go over the cliff with them.
Evening, lizards.

696 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:17:23pm

re: #686 cliffster

It's all fun and games until someone loses a trillion dollars.

No worries. We can--and do--just print more. /

697 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:17:35pm

re: #679 Ojoe

The one about "states rights"?

Yep, you remember.

698 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:17:40pm

re: #659 Cato the Elder

If you're going to send me poems like that, young lady, I shall have to have an earnest interview with your fiancé!!!1!

Amo, amas, amat - that's all the latin I need (or remember!).

699 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:17:51pm

re: #689 njdhockeyfan

Sources said that the dead militant was a member of Islamic Jihad (Holy War) and that the minibus was full of explosives which detonated due to technical problem.

We were not attempting to launch that missile!

700 carey94tt  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:17:58pm

WTH is a re-tweet anyway exactly and how is it tracked?

701 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:18:07pm

Well that's it I suppose. All of the Wingnuts™ and Stalkers™ will stop reading LGF after tonight.

///

702 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:18:11pm

re: #626 Cato the Elder

Anyone who hasn't read them is a boor.

They are now being avidly studied on Wall Street, because if you leave out the revolution part, Marx at least understood more about capitalism than any seven MBAs at Goldmine Sacks.

Hadn't heard that but -- Damn right! That, in a nutshell, is where my desire for a president that's one half Goldwater & one half Mike Harrington comes from.

One huge mistake people make is that Lenin had anything right in his reading of Marx. I imagine that the analysis of Lenin by Marx would have been terribly entertaining to read... ;)

William

703 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:18:21pm

re: #696 BryanS

No worries. We can--and do--just print more. /

Shit, we're a few keystrokes away from a balanced budget.

704 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:18:25pm

re: #694 Rightwingconspirator

35.

705 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:18:48pm

re: #688 Ojoe

Odd numbers have a center. count in from the top and bottom. If you get a digit in the middle, that's the center. 3 is the center of 5 for instance.

I was looking for a definition in terms of open balls in n-space, but ok.

706 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:18:57pm

re: #698 Jimmah

Amo, amas, amat - that's all the latin I need (or remember!).

Ignorance is bliss.

Do you have any idea how many kisses she just sent me?

It's all right. Can I come to your wedding?

707 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:19:06pm

re: #673 AJStrata

CJ,

Funny - I see 10 reasons for you to save conservatism.

We can do this, just don't give up. You are a well respected voice. They may not deserve your support, but they need it. We can fix those problems. But only if you want to try. Don't succumb.

Your friend and ally - AJStrata

Sadly, any questioning of the orthodoxy leads to ostracism.

It's like you are in a car heading for the cliff and you mention to the driver, "You know, it might be a good idea to hit the brakes."

And all he can do is yell "Get the f%^k out of my vehicle!!"

The momentum of the gaspers at this point has reached such a fever pitch that there is no reasoning with them. They are no longer willing to listen. Folks who are willing to discuss individual issues on the merits and do so with respect rather than throwing rhetorical Molotovs are increasingly rare. They are also increasingly here.

708 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:19:29pm

42

709 lostlakehiker  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:19:29pm

re: #111 directorblue

Charles, I would guess that the vast majority of the so-called center-right would agree with most of your tenets.

Mark Levin's Liberty & Tyranny is my personal blueprint of "conservatism". It steps through thousands of years of human experimentation with different forms of government and arrives at one inescapable conclusion:

While imperfect, the U.S. Constitution is the best form of government ever conceived. It protected the rights of the individual and limited the powers of the federal government. Over time (New Deal, Great Society, etc.), the firewalls of the Constitution were erased by activist judges, leaving us with the strange form of government we have today.

I can't remember if it even mentions pro-choice/pro-life -- that's a state's right issue (10th Amendment). The chapter on "Faith and the Founding" explains the intertwined relationship between Judeo-Christian beliefs and the government.

As for Buchanan, etc., I have nothing but disgust for that crew.

On Palin, I've never heard anything credible that would lead me to dismiss her as a conservative leader.

On global warming, I believe it's largely a financial scam. In 1987 I wrote about the World Rainforest Movement's identification of the IPCC as a bunch of businessmen (see Pedro Moura-Costa) who were out to enrich themselves -- and succeeded. Even the WRM (hardly a right-wing group) said the IPCC report was a "fraud". Until we use open source science, open algorithms, open data, I find it difficult to believe the the U.S. has any impact on climate change. Visiting China puts our country into perspective.

The U.S. produces comparable CO2 to China's. If ANYBODY influences climate change, we do. The best solution, if it is feasible, would involve setting up situations where rational self interest aligns with reduced CO2 emissions. Then everybody wins. If that's not feasible, we're in for a world of trouble. But if it comes to belt tightening type measures, the U.S. will have to be on board, and so will China, or nothing will come of it.

710 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:19:43pm

re: #702 wlewisiii

Hadn't heard that but -- Damn right! That, in a nutshell, is where my desire for a president that's one half Goldwater & one half Mike Harrington comes from.

One huge mistake people make is that Lenin had anything right in his reading of Marx. I imagine that the analysis of Lenin by Marx would have been terribly entertaining to read... ;)

William

Marx would have torn Lenin a new one faster than you can shot a czar.

711 LotharBot  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:19:51pm

I can't voice 100% agreement on every issue, but I can voice about 95% agreement.

The "right" is going off the rails, seething with hate and buying into conspiracy theories and anti-scientific ideas. It's like they saw the left go nuts during the Bush era (blood for oil, 9/11 conspiracies, BDS), watched Obama get elected, and figured insanity was a winning strategy.

We need candidates with a solid vision: small government, low taxes, fiscal responsibility, strong national defense, religious freedom for all, anti-bigotry, and pro-science/engineering. Are there any out there? Seems like every big-name candidate (Romney, Pawlenty, Palin, Huckabee) fails miserably on at least one of these issues. God, I hope Petraeus runs and is sane.

712 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:20:09pm

re: #564 Cato the Elder

Are you saying a yellow ribbon on the back of an Escalade doesn't make him forget all his sorrows, forget all his troubles, forget all his trials, and do the Snoopy dance?

Damn.

Fraid not. He would look good doing the Snoopy dance though. He's a prince of a guy. And if this keeps up, I'm afraid he's going to spend more time in Afghanistan than all three of my grandfathers spent serving in WWII.

713 dartmydog  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:20:15pm

Charles I think you can play the media like you do the guitar!

714 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:20:36pm

re: #708 Racer X

42

But, how many roads must a woman walk down?

715 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:20:42pm

re: #673 AJStrata

CJ,

Funny - I see 10 reasons for you to save conservatism.

We can do this, just don't give up. You are a well respected voice. They may not deserve your support, but they need it. We can fix those problems. But only if you want to try. Don't succumb.

Your friend and ally - AJStrata

Hear, hear.

716 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:20:50pm

re: #693 Floral Giraffe

WOW!
3327 retweets, according to the counter!

AVALANCHE!
INCOMING!

Bear in mind too that people who are retweeting other people's tweets about this aren't going to show up in that counter-- so, all the people who see politico or kos or william gibson's tweets and retweet those tweets don't get included in the total above (i think that's how it works?)
Anyway, hells yeah, avalanche!

717 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:21:00pm

re: #707 austin_blue

Sadly, any questioning of the orthodoxy leads to ostracism.

It's like you are in a car heading for the cliff and you mention to the driver, "You know, it might be a good idea to hit the brakes."

And all he can do is yell "Get the f%^k out of my vehicle!!"

The momentum of the gaspers at this point has reached such a fever pitch that there is no reasoning with them. They are no longer willing to listen. Folks who are willing to discuss individual issues on the merits and do so with respect rather than throwing rhetorical Molotovs are increasingly rare. They are also increasingly here.

I know what you mean. Sometimes you can ask the same exact question, 10 times, and that person will stare you right in the monitor and ask you "What was your question?" Ever have that happen?

718 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:21:08pm

re: #712 SanFranciscoZionist

Fraid not. He would look good doing the Snoopy dance though. He's a prince of a guy. And if this keeps up, I'm afraid he's going to spend more time in Afghanistan than all three of my grandfathers spent serving in WWII.

Not hard to imagine, since Afghanistan is already our longest-running "engagement".

719 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:21:13pm

re: #689 njdhockeyfan

It's Israel's fault.

///

Q: How many Islamic Militants in Gaza does it take to screw in one fricken light bulb?

A: Zero. They sit in the dark and blame Israel.

720 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:21:27pm

re: #714 MandyManners

But, how many roads must a woman walk down?

None, hop in!

721 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:22:04pm

re: #720 Racer X

None, hop in!

No.

722 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:22:11pm

re: #691 Walter L. Newton

Seems simple enough.

Punditry reinforces opinion.

There is a fundamental disconnect in the GOP base about stuff that has to be done in order for other stuff to happen.

The base loved the war and the tax cut - egged on by the media who assured them that they can have their cake and eat it. No one can have their cake and eat it.

(yes the liberals do it too - but this is a thread about the decline of conservatism which is why i addressed it)

723 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:22:13pm

I want open registration! I'm hella stoked and hungry!

724 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:22:36pm

re: #677 Racer X

Wow!

It looks as though those bearded guys really would have stoned her given the chance.

No doubt in my mind on that. I wonder if the "joint enterprise" law being used to curb gang violence in the UK could be used here to prosecute that whole nasty little group.

725 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:22:47pm

re: #712 SanFranciscoZionist

[...] all three of my grandfathers [...]

Hmmm...

726 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:22:48pm
727 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:22:55pm

re: #721 MandyManners

No.

*squeals tires as Racer X speeds away*

728 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:22:58pm

re: #601 Cato the Elder

I have a more serious reply than my "Snoopy dance" quip above.

On Veterans' Day, when all the wankers were crying about how much they luuurve this country and falling all over themselves to thank our soldiers, sailors, airmen, submariners, SEALs, Special Forces and fry cooks for their service, I suggested, here and on Facebook, that people take a hard look at that homeless guy stationed near the entrance to the freeway you take every day.

I mentioned a specific man, who holds a certain place, day after day in Baltimore. I know his story.

And people (not here) told me that he was a fake vet and a fraud and I was a dupe for bringing him food and money.

No yellow ribbon or pious sentiment is too good for our men and women in uniform.

You're a good guy Cato. That makes you cranky, huh?

729 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:23:02pm

re: #697 Walter L. Newton

Well the phrase is not good. I have suggested they rephrase it. The Whig website does say this though:

Each state can determine the extended rights of homosexuals based on their own local values. We do, however, support classifying as a federal hate crime attacks on people based on their perceived sexual orientation. In essence, the sexual orientation of the guy down the street has no bearing on anybody else's life.

730 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:23:19pm

re: #690 Cato the Elder

It is indeed. May I also recommend Cryptonomicon (hope I got it right this time) and Dahlgren? The latter is much older and NSFW, but it will blow your tubes.

Prism. Mirror. Lens.

Don't forget Delaney's Nova, either. Brilliant allegory of a Grail Quest.

731 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:23:28pm

re: #722 wozzablog

PIMF

Punditry reinforces opinion as fact.

732 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:23:57pm

re: #724 Jimmah

No doubt in my mind on that. I wonder if the "joint enterprise" law being used to curb gang violence in the UK could be used here to prosecute that whole nasty little group.

Not a chance. They want Sharia law and they want it now!

733 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:24:00pm

re: #726 nightdragon83

Long winded flounce is long.
/TLDR

734 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:24:11pm

re: #722 wozzablog

Seems simple enough.

Punditry reinforces opinion.

There is a fundamental disconnect in the GOP base about stuff that has to be done in order for other stuff to happen.

The base loved the war and the tax cut - egged on by the media who assured them that they can have their cake and eat it. No one can have their cake and eat it.

(yes the liberals do it too - but this is a thread about the decline of conservatism which is why i addressed it)

I guess what I am saying is simple, you skewer pundits for being exactly what they are. That's weird. And sort of a straw argument. If a pundit acted like you suggested, they wouldn't be any sort of pundit. That's all I was saying.

735 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:24:13pm

re: #726 nightdragon83

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

736 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:24:19pm

re: #673 AJStrata

CJ,

Funny - I see 10 reasons for you to save conservatism.

We can do this, just don't give up. You are a well respected voice. They may not deserve your support, but they need it. We can fix those problems. But only if you want to try. Don't succumb.

Your friend and ally - AJStrata

I see ten reasons to abandon labels and embrace rational dialogue based on the idea that "liberals" and "conservatives" of good will all want the best for the country and the world and resent being pounded round-headed into square and antiquated holes.

737 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:24:56pm

re: #726 nightdragon83

revert back to the conservative principles that this country was founded on.

ahem... "Provide for the general welfare"... ahem

738 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:25:05pm

re: #730 austin_blue

Favorited for future reading.

739 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:25:06pm

Taking the private jet to Copenhagen

Hypocrisy is the vice we find hardest to forgive, but it’s also the one we most enjoy discovering in others. And nothing piques our interest more than eco-hypocrisy as practised by the “green” celebrities who have been spouting green virtue but spewing out hundreds of tons of carbon from their private jets or multiple holiday homes around the globe.

...The Copenhagen summit next week will generate vast quantities of hot air. It will see 16,500 people coming in from 192 countries. That amounts to 41,000 tons of carbon dioxide, roughly the same as the carbon emissions of Morocco in 2006. Also, the organisers will lay 900 kilometres of computer cable and 50,000 square miles of carpet. More than 200,000 meals will be served and visitors will drink 200,000 cups of coffee — at least that will be organic.

When asked if the carbon footprint might have been reduced by turning Copenhagen into a video conference, a spokesman for the event said: “For such a major agreement, people need to meet together and negotiate face to face. We have delegates from all over the world. Video-conferencing systems are extremely useful, but they don’t match the personal touch. This is one of the main factors in having a good conference.”

740 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:25:13pm

re: #726 nightdragon83

I'll make it easier to resist the temptation to read LGF by blocking your account. No need to thank me!

741 Ojoe  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:25:20pm

re: #736 Cato the Elder

1,000 updings for that sir.

742 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:25:21pm

re: #726 nightdragon83

I choose to move forward, not backward. Good luck finding your time machine.

743 webevintage  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:25:30pm

re: #733 Varek Raith

Long winded flounce is long.
/TLDR

i can haz flounce now?

744 captain faris  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:03pm

I--and my friends of my ilk--agree with each of your 10 objections to the public discourse as practiced by most of the high-profile "right". Yet I would like to see your 10 core issues and your position on them succinctly listed next to this current list. Unlike the "son of a Buckley" whose similar train of thought led him to end up actually supporting the loony left, you are not guilty of such irrationality. You clearly support values that genuine conservatives ought to be focusing on. So a fresh "list" of those issues would help many of the rest of us reestablish our connection with reality.

I hesitate to say it, but most of the (low profile, non-activist) conservatives I "pal around with" (g) also concur with the reasoning behind each of your points. Maybe I just stay closeted in a rare hotbed of rationality. More likely we're just delusional and inconsistent.,

745 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:07pm

re: #726 nightdragon83

Then I would advise you to pick up you ass and move on to some blog that pleases you... is there something wrong with you, are you mentally ill, why would you hang around here if you have so much trouble with what you see and hear on this blog?

My, my... I think you need help.

746 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:18pm

re: #743 webevintage

i can haz flounce now?

Ceiling flounce is always watching.

/

747 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:19pm

I finally got to see one before it got deleted!

748 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:21pm

re: #661 Racer X

There was no way he was ever going to win - the far right was two steps away from denouncing him. Palin gave him a bump - that quickly evaporated every time she spoke.

There was no way he was ever going to win--there was the Bush problem.

749 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:27pm

re: #734 Walter L. Newton

But they do act like that - you never watched one twisting in the wind over paying for the war?

750 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:40pm

re: #717 Walter L. Newton

I know what you mean. Sometimes you can ask the same exact question, 10 times, and that person will stare you right in the monitor and ask you "What was your question?" Ever have that happen?

Hell, Walter, *I'm* guilty of it sometimes. But I hope I come back the next day and try to make my points. It's okay to agree to disagree. But the vitriol serves no purpose. You win arguments with facts and respect.

751 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:46pm

Re: 726 [deleted]

Flounce-O-Meter™ reads: Boring

752 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:50pm

re: #673 AJStrata

You are a well respected voice. They may not deserve your support, but they need it.

All due respect, but quite a few people on the right side of the blogosphere ought to have thought about that BEFORE they decided to throw support to robert stacy mccain (of ALL people) and tacitly endorse many vicious attacks on Charles and LGF-- when not actively participating in such attacks themselves or haughtily delinking LGF or kicking Charles out of the Conservative Blog Ads network and so forth.

Screw those people, seriously. This post is a long needed wakeup call and corrective to the lunacy being propagated all over the right side of the blogosphere now.

753 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:26:52pm

re: #726 nightdragon83

Oh for F*ck's sake, why can't you keep your whining to one paragraph or less?

What's with the essays?

754 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:28:41pm

re: #749 wozzablog

But they do act like that - you never watched one twisting in the wind over paying for the war?

Never mind. You argue that a pundit is being... well, a pundit. That's like complaining about a priest being... well... chaste. It's what they do.

So yes, I find your argument weak if not ridiculous, broad brushed and simplistic.

755 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:28:49pm

Parting of the ways implies that there was once a shared path.
I didn't realize that LGF ever officially pitched a tent in the right wing's camp.

756 Irish Rose  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:29:51pm

I've been away from the blogs for a few weeks, tending to school and family life and harassing my children on Facebook... did I miss anything critical?

While away, I did manage to earn a 175k Star Medal in Bejeweled Blitz!
I earned this medal with a score of 186,000.

Just FYI.

757 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:30:40pm

re: #752 iceweasel

All due respect, but quite a few people on the right side of the blogosphere ought to have thought about that BEFORE they decided to throw support to robert stacy mccain (of ALL people) and tacitly endorse many vicious attacks on Charles and LGF-- when not actively participating in such attacks themselves or haughtily delinking LGF or kicking Charles out of the Conservative Blog Ads network and so forth.

Screw those people, seriously. This post is a long needed wakeup call and corrective to the lunacy being propagated all over the right side of the blogosphere now.

Does that mean that this blog is now officially a liberal blog? Because if it is... I am certainly going to have to stick around just to rattle some cages.

You all had a chance of getting rid of me, but you blew it. :)

758 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:31:06pm

re: #739 njdhockeyfan

Taking the private jet to Copenhagen

Don't forget the lure of the hookers two streets down from the Tivoli Gardens (for the reporters) and the Danish pastry (10,000 kroner per "engagement") with nipples so hard you could bruise yourself on them. Such things are also essential to global politicking.

759 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:31:07pm

re: #662 Jimmah

OT : The BBC has posted a video of the egg-throwing incident involving muslim conservative peer Baroness Warsi. Pathetically enough, these assholes claimed not to have thrown any eggs.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Very classy lady. I like the bit at the end, where she's cleaning her hair off, in what looks like a sari shop. Good role model for girls.

What's the perps' story? Someone else threw an egg, and then they popped up to scream politely about sharia?

760 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:31:22pm

re: #756 Irish Rose

While away, I did manage to earn a 175k Star Medal in Bejeweled Blitz!
I earned this medal with a score of 186,000.


Congratulations!
(Now, can you translate for the uneducated? I got no clue here).

761 MandyManners  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:31:54pm
762 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:31:58pm

re: #757 Walter L. Newton

Does that mean that this blog is now officially a liberal blog?

I hope we stay anti-idiotarian.

763 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:32:29pm

re: #756 Irish Rose

Great to hear from you! Now whaaa? A $175K?

764 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:32:33pm

re: #737 wozzablog

ahem... "Provide for the general welfare"... ahem

Which is not the same as "Reduce the populace to helpless wards of the state."

765 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:32:33pm

re: #758 Cato the Elder

Don't forget the lure of the hookers two streets down from the Tivoli Gardens (for the reporters) and the Danish pastry (10,000 kroner per "engagement") with nipples so hard you could bruise yourself on them. Such things are also essential to global politicking.

The Danish pastry has nipples? Or did you mean the Danish pasties have nipples?

766 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:32:40pm
767 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:33:11pm

re: #758 Cato the Elder

Don't forget the lure of the hookers two streets down from the Tivoli Gardens (for the reporters) and the Danish pastry (10,000 kroner per "engagement") with nipples so hard you could bruise yourself on them. Such things are also essential to global politicking.

Link?

768 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:33:33pm
769 bratwurst  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:33:47pm

re: #765 Walter L. Newton

The Danish pastry has nipples? Or did you mean the Danish pasties have nipples?

Either way, I am ready for breakfast!

770 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:33:52pm

re: #754 Walter L. Newton

ok. disconect what i said entirely from the people who believe in the Bush Taxcut and the Iraq war together combined were good ideas... those people are out there.

Dismissing my argument means you have to deny those people exist and that they were fed in the belief that those two policies combined were a winning combination.

771 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:34:48pm

re: #769 bratwurst

Either way, I am ready for breakfast!

nom nom nom

772 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:34:49pm

re: #762 Sharmuta

I hope we stay anti-idiotarian.

Yes. The last thing we need is a bunch of left wing idiots to pile in here thinking this is now a safe haven for fools of the other stripe. We'll fire up the grills and not let that happen.

773 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:35:06pm

Bagua's Humour Break™

President Obama announces new strategy to fight the Taliban


774 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:35:24pm

re: #758 Cato the Elder

Don't forget the lure of the hookers two streets down from the Tivoli Gardens (for the reporters) and the Danish pastry (10,000 kroner per "engagement") with nipples so hard you could bruise yourself on them. Such things are also essential to global politicking.

Could you elaborate on those nipples?

/Just for research purposes only. ;)

775 nanook37  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:35:26pm

re: #444 WindUpBird

You were ASSIGNED Neuromancer in college?!? AWESOME. I stayed up all night for weeks when I was a teenager reading Neuromancer, Mona Lisa Overdrive, Count Zero... the classic paperpacks with Rick Berry's pioneering digital art on the cover :D

I was assigned it in college as well (WindUpBird did you go to UVa?) and did not read it - I enjoyed a ton when I red it 10 years later...

776 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:35:38pm

One up for trademarking. Ha!

777 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:35:42pm

re: #772 austin_blue

Yes. The last thing we need is a bunch of left wing idiots to pile in here thinking this is now a safe haven for fools of the other stripe. We'll fire up the grills and not let that happen.

The left has idiots? Who knew?

778 skidancer  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:35:47pm

Why does it have to be right and left. There's another dimension, you know. Sigh, I guess that's too much for most folks.

779 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:35:47pm

re: #769 bratwurst

Either way, I am ready for breakfast!

Or maybe the Danish nipples had pasties. I'm so confused.

780 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:35:59pm

re: #761 MandyManners


Some fellas doing cool a capellas.
781 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:35:59pm

re: #765 Walter L. Newton

The Danish pastry has nipples? Or did you mean the Danish pasties have nipples?

I know it's late, Walter, but it was a metaphor. Surely a theater man can see that?

782 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:36:08pm

re: #772 austin_blue

Yes. The last thing we need is a bunch of left wing idiots to pile in here thinking this is now a safe haven for fools of the other stripe. We'll fire up the grills and not let that happen.

OK everybody, put away the Peace Drums™

783 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:36:29pm

re: #778 skidancer

I think we already live with our ups and downs. Left and right is the part we can drive.

784 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:36:34pm

re: #767 Racer X

Link?

You bad boy! Find your own entertainment!

785 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:36:44pm

re: #778 skidancer

Why does it have to be right and left. There's another dimension, you know. Sigh, I guess that's too much for most folks.

Yea, you're right. I guess we are all idiots... we'll all leave... thanks.

786 Wozza Matter?  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:36:58pm

re: #764 The Sanity Inspector

Mr Flounce said there was not a single socialist ideal in the entiry of America's founding - "providing for the general welfare" outside of providing for the military is hardly Ayn Rand.

787 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:37:11pm

re: #772 austin_blue

Yes. The last thing we need is a bunch of left wing idiots to pile in here thinking this is now a safe haven for fools of the other stripe. We'll fire up the grills and not let that happen.


Too late.

788 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:37:12pm

re: #782 Gus 802

OK everybody, put away the Peace Drums™

See, if you don't take care of these hippies now, pretty soon you're gonna have a drum circle pop up in your back yard...

789 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:37:23pm

re: #784 Cato the Elder

You bad boy! Find your own entertainment!

Well I was, until you told me it was a metaphor.

790 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:37:24pm
791 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:37:51pm

re: #787 Fenway_Nation

Too late.

That answer was up for grabs. I knew someone would come back with that.

792 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:38:00pm

re: #747 Girth

I finally got to see one before it got deleted!

Isn't it cool? Like the green flash--although I never have seen that.

793 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:38:15pm

re: #790 rightisright

Boring flounce. Kthxbai!

794 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:38:17pm

Here they come.

795 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:38:44pm

Darn. Missed the flounce.

796 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:38:48pm

re: #790 rightisright
Does your mama know that you're out?

797 Summer Seale  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:38:53pm

re: #794 Charles

Here they come.

Grab your towel! Flying spittle alert! =)

798 Irish Rose  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:39:02pm

Bam! You're outa here, asshole.

799 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:39:29pm

Why do homophobes always have to project so much?

800 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:39:36pm

re: #793 Varek Raith

Boring flounce. Kthxbai!

Evidently getting between two of my posts is like some sort of crossing the streams... sort of a quantum flounce... poof!

801 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:40:04pm

Rosin up the bow.

802 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:40:08pm

re: #799 Girth

Why do homophobes always have to project so much?

Who's a homophobe?

803 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:40:16pm

re: #794 Charles
That one was so deliciously moronic that you should have left it up for a while so people could guffaw and LTAO.
///

804 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:40:58pm

re: #802 Walter L. Newton

Who's a homophobe?

The latest flounce.

805 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:41:06pm

re: #799 Girth
That's just it... they usually don't project so much.///

806 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:41:57pm

That was FAST

807 carey94tt  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:42:08pm

Awesome...a comment and a delete in seconds. It's like watching the wrath of mother nature...you can't take your eyes off of it.

808 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:42:19pm

re: #799 Girth

Why do homophobes always have to project so much?

Because they are secretly gay? I think that's a funny thing to tell them anyway.

809 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:42:27pm

re: #794 Charles

810 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:42:28pm

re: #775 nanook37

I was assigned it in college as well (WindUpBird did you go to UVa?) and did not read it - I enjoyed a ton when I red it 10 years later...

I went to Cornish College of the Arts 8-) And yeah, it's one of my favorite books of all time. So much fantastic imagery and worldbuilding.

811 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:42:55pm


re: #706 Cato the Elder

Do you have any idea how many kisses she just sent me?

It's all right. Can I come to your wedding?

Do you know how many she just gave me?

Iceweasel (who is currently slaving in the kitchen) will email you about the wedding soon :)

812 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:43:12pm

re: #764 The Sanity Inspector

Which is not the same as "Reduce the populace to helpless wards of the state."

But which does not mean only 'pay for a standing army'...damn complicated, these directions.

813 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:43:26pm

re: #800 Walter L. Newton

Evidently getting between two of my posts is like some sort of crossing the streams... sort of a quantum flounce... poof!

Don't cross the streams!

814 avanti  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:43:36pm

re: #756 Irish Rose

I've been away from the blogs for a few weeks, tending to school and family life and harassing my children on Facebook... did I miss anything critical?

While away, I did manage to earn a 175k Star Medal in Bejeweled Blitz!
I earned this medal with a score of 186,000.

Just FYI.

The stalker blog will be so disappointed, they were hoping you were headed to the dark side. :)

815 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:44:10pm

re: #811 Jimmah

Do you know how many she just gave me?

Iceweasel (who is currently slaving in the kitchen) will email you about the wedding soon :)

I'm glad you've already tamed the shrew!

And good about the email, because I may just be at liberty to attend.

816 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:44:13pm

re: #808 BryanS

Because they are secretly gay? I think that's a funny thing to tell them anyway.

The weird part is that those guys talk about homosexuality more than the average gay man. They're obsessed.

817 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:44:58pm

Well, my ichor blottle seems to be umpty. Time for bad.

818 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:45:05pm

The haters have totally swarmed Ben Smith's post:

[Link: www.politico.com...]

819 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:45:09pm

re: #765 Walter L. Newton

The Danish pastry has nipples? Or did you mean the Danish pasties have nipples?

Following the cartoon catastrophe, Iranian bakeries renamed Danish "Roses of the Prophet Mohammed Pastries". I wish I was making this up.

820 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:46:29pm

re: #818 Charles

The haters have totally swarmed Ben Smith's post:

[Link: www.politico.com...]

You are getting a warm reception at MyDD.

821 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:46:40pm
822 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:47:05pm

re: #819 SanFranciscoZionist

Following the cartoon catastrophe, Iranian bakeries renamed Danish "Roses of the Prophet Mohammed Pastries". I wish I was making this up.

Mmmm...Freedom fries...

823 carey94tt  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:47:08pm

re: #818 Charles

I noticed...it's a dirty feeling to see this much hate. Reminds me of something...radical Islam?

824 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:47:10pm

re: #819 SanFranciscoZionist


But did they have Freedom Bread?
//

825 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:48:14pm

re: #757 Walter L. Newton

Does that mean that this blog is now officially a liberal blog? Because if it is... I am certainly going to have to stick around just to rattle some cages.

You all had a chance of getting rid of me, but you blew it. :)

heh. AFAIK it's an anti-idiotarian blog and always has been...but I will pretend it's a liberal blog if that makes you even feistier than usual!

826 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:48:17pm

re: #819 SanFranciscoZionist

Following the cartoon catastrophe, Iranian bakeries renamed Danish "Roses of the Prophet Mohammed Pastries". I wish I was making this up.

I've always suspected that most people just muttered "Cheese Danish and a coffee" anyway. It's like asking for a 'venti' at Starbucks. Most people just cannot do it.

827 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:48:25pm
828 Varek Raith  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:48:30pm

re: #818 Charles

The haters have totally swarmed Ben Smith's post:

[Link: www.politico.com...]

WTF is up with comment number 13 (Tom) on that blog? Projection of epic proportions...

829 wiffersnapper  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:48:33pm

Charles for president

830 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:48:34pm

re: #823 carey94tt

I noticed...it's a dirty feeling to see this much hate. Reminds me of something...radical Islam?

It's an object example of exactly what I was writing about in this post.

831 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:49:07pm

re: #820 njdhockeyfan

You are getting a warm reception at MyDD.

One of the commenters doesn't seem to appreciate support for Israel.

I'm thinking support for Israel might be a major road block for our new "friends".

832 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:49:11pm

This lizard is sleepy. Nite folks.

833 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:49:23pm

re: #777 Sharmuta

The left has idiots? Who knew?

Hell, you deal in Dem politics and you deal with these people all the time. Will Rogers was right (oops! correct!) when he said he was a Democrat and did not belong to any organized political party.

We'd have local party caucuses and they would come out of the woodwork. Radical (take your choice---) anti-nukes, feminists, LGBTs, vegetarians, PETAns, Jews, Catholics, Copts, Armenians, ex-pat Iranis, refugees, &c, ad finitum. And we accepted them. We explained that party planks were based on motions that were accepted or not accepted, amended, discussed and voted upon. If they got a majority, their positions were included in documents were sent up the chain and eventually you got a State Party position document.

Here's the thing. They were loons, but for the vast majority of them, the process was acceptable even if they knew their more radical positions had a snowball's chance in hell of being adopted.

It was a zoo, but it was respectful and an absolute hoot!

Are local Repub caucuses like that? Anyone? Honest question.

834 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:50:42pm

re: #787 Fenway_Nation

Too late.

Curmudgeon!

835 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:50:43pm

re: #819 SanFranciscoZionist

Following the cartoon catastrophe, Iranian bakeries renamed Danish "Roses of the Prophet Mohammed Pastries". I wish I was making this up.

About as effective as "Freedom Fries".

836 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:50:50pm

re: #818 Charles
Looks like the comments at Politico are pretty evenly divided beween lefty haters and righty haters, so you end up the winner in that deal.

837 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:50:58pm

re: #826 SanFranciscoZionist

I've always suspected that most people just muttered "Cheese Danish and a coffee" anyway. It's like asking for a 'venti' at Starbucks. Most people just cannot do it.

I have a hard time saying venti with a straight face.

838 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:51:30pm

re: #833 austin_blue

Are local Repub caucuses like that? Anyone? Honest question.

No- all we do is read the Bible out loud. ///

839 BryanS  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:51:31pm

re: #831 Sharmuta

One of the commenters doesn't seem to appreciate support for Israel.

I'm thinking support for Israel might be a major road block for our new "friends".

Yeah--antisemitism on the far left is their version of hatred.

840 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:51:39pm

re: #815 Cato the Elder

I'm glad you've already tamed the shrew!

And good about the email, because I may just be at liberty to attend.

I object! Iceweasels apparently can be domesticated, but are never tame, sir. And shrew-like qualities remain in evidence!

Hooray, btw! I will email you our top seekrit locations and plans soon.

841 webevintage  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:51:39pm

God hates Corduroy Skirts

[Link: godhatesprotesters.wordpress.com...]

(even though a very soft corduroy skirt can be toasty in the winter)

842 njdhockeyfan  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:52:14pm

re: #831 Sharmuta

One of the commenters doesn't seem to appreciate support for Israel.

I'm thinking support for Israel might be a major road block for our new "friends".

I like this one.

...However it impressive that he has effectively parted with with the tea-bagging crowd, yet retained a huge reader/commenter base. Most of his posts have 300-500 comments and registration is full. I don't know how he does it.

Heh.

843 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:52:19pm

re: #835 Cato the Elder

About as effective as "Freedom Fries".

'Freedom Fries' is easier to say. Maybe "Roses of the Prophet Mohammed Pastries" is less wordy in Farsi.

844 Irish Rose  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:52:20pm

re: #814 avanti

The stalker blog will be so disappointed, they were hoping you were headed to the dark side. :)

I'm sure...

845 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:52:30pm

Damn all you RINOs and your utterly plausible sounding reasons for bashing the pseudo-conservative neo-Right!

///

846 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:52:46pm

re: #838 Sharmuta

No- all we do is read the Bible out loud. ///

Leviticus if we're really feeling wild and crazy.

847 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:52:51pm

re: #826 SanFranciscoZionist

I've always suspected that most people just muttered "Cheese Danish and a coffee" anyway. It's like asking for a 'venti' at Starbucks. Most people just cannot do it.

In Portland, I always get shit for saying "grande" instead of "16 oz" at indie coffee shops. I've just been conditioned by Starbucks for like 15 years ;_;

848 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:52:52pm

re: #837 Girth

I have a hard time saying venti with a straight face.

I have a hard time saying it with an accent!

849 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:53:18pm

re: #837 Girth
It's easier at the drive thru...///

850 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:54:01pm

re: #839 BryanS

Yeah--antisemitism on the far left is their version of hatred.

The far left and the far right hook up at Jew Hate Junction.

851 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:54:07pm

re: #841 webevintage

God hates Corduroy Skirts

[Link: godhatesprotesters.wordpress.com...]

(even though a very soft corduroy skirt can be toasty in the winter)

I have to say, I like corduroy skirts. Does he have scriptural support for that assertion?

852 Summer Seale  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:54:09pm

re: #845 ausador

Damn all you RINOs and your utterly plausible sounding reasons for bashing the pseudo-conservative neo-Right!

///

I call the fundie Republicans (and Democrats too): PINOs. Patriots In Name Only.

853 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:54:53pm

re: #838 Sharmuta

No- all we do is read the Bible out loud. ///

Listen to Skynard, get drunk, then go deer huntin'.

//

854 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:55:32pm

re: #853 Gus 802

Listen to Skynard, get drunk, then go deer huntin'.

//

MOOSE!

855 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:56:02pm

re: #840 iceweasel

I object! Iceweasels apparently can be domesticated, but are never tame, sir. And shrew-like qualities remain in evidence!

Hooray, btw! I will email you our top seekrit locations and plans soon.

I still believe you are in truth a fisher cat, left at birth in some unsuspecting iceweasel's burrow.

Fishers are, by the way, said to be the only creatures besides man that can kill and eat a porcupine without dying of quill infection. Jimmah, I know Scots are prickly, but take note!

856 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:56:30pm

re: #836 tradewind

Looks like the comments at Politico are pretty evenly divided beween lefty haters and righty haters, so you end up the winner in that deal.

Those comments are a bit weird in that they don't look to me to be representative (yet) of Politico readers. I think the word went out via the haters on twitter about ben Smith's post and the haters jumped in first.

857 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:56:49pm

Airbus A380: 5-star hotel on wings

The Airbus A380 is a true wonder of modern engineering. It is the largest airliner ever made, with a carrying capability of up to 853 passengers. Being 50% wider than the Boeing 747, it's closest competitor, the Airbus has truly surpassed all previous achievements of plane construction and interior design.

A380's level of comfort (well, at least for business-class passengers) is remarkable. The entire upper-deck is dedicated for premium passengers. All seats can be transformed into full-sized beds (190 cm in length) with a pillow and a mattress. Each passenger has his own mini-bar and a full-sized, bartender-serviced bar is available at the rear of the plane. And on top of all, there are two shower cabins available during flight.

Sergey Dolya, one of Russia's top bloggers, flew with Emirates last week to tell us the story of how flights could look like in the future.

858 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:57:17pm

re: #851 SanFranciscoZionist

I have to say, I like corduroy skirts. Does he have scriptural support for that assertion?

I don't know, but I like lifting them. Up.

859 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:57:36pm

re: #843 SanFranciscoZionist

'Freedom Fries' is easier to say. Maybe "Roses of the Prophet Mohammed Pastries" is less wordy in Farsi.

Fortunately, yes. In a weird twist of fate, the Farsi pronunciation is "All'a'Daneesh"

860 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:58:10pm

I was just looking at the instructions on this bottle of antibiotics that my dentist gave me... it says "take one capsule by mouth four times a day."

This is a bit scary to consider, but why do they have to tell me "by mouth?" What other way would anyone try to take a pill? Would someone possibly try to shove it up their nose, in their eye, up their anu...

I don't understand.

861 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:58:23pm

re: #843 SanFranciscoZionist

'Freedom Fries' is easier to say. Maybe "Roses of the Prophet Mohammed Pastries" is less wordy in Farsi.

Most likely. And "roses" is also a poetic metaphor for "nipples".

862 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:58:35pm

re: #826 SanFranciscoZionist

LOL!
They do know what a "large" is!

863 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:59:39pm

re: #861 Cato the Elder

Most likely. And "roses" is also a poetic metaphor for "nipples".

Is everything about nipples tonight?

864 bandit  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 9:59:48pm

Thank goodness for moderates. Why aren't we allowed to exist anymore? Why must we fall into camps on every issue? I'm a moderate on most things. For example, abortion is a difficult and divisive issue. Since we live in a free country that puts individuals first, the decision to abort has to be made by individuals who will live with the consequence. Does that make me "pro-choice"? Not really. I would never counsel anyone to have an abortion, but I recognize it's a point on which reasonable people can differ, and our country is about freedom.

Similarly, I support Israel. It is a vibrant democracy with an open and free press that is often critical of the government. It grants rights to citizens, whether male, female, arab, Jew, gay or straight. It allows Supreme Court petitions from non-citizen Palestinians that often come out in favor of the Palestinians. It has led the world in medical advances, research and humanitarian charity. Does my support of Israel brand me a conservative or zionist?

So congratulations on your "parting" Charles, but really the most disappointing thing is that you or anyone else felt that you were "affiliated" with the right or left in the first place. There is a political spectrum and a hell of a lot of us really belong in the center. Our two-party system, for all its strengths, compels us to choose sides. How unfortunate.

865 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:00:39pm

re: #860 Walter L. Newton

I was just looking at the instructions on this bottle of antibiotics that my dentist gave me... it says "take one capsule by mouth four times a day."

This is a bit scary to consider, but why do they have to tell me "by mouth?" What other way would anyone try to take a pill? Would someone possibly try to shove it up their nose, in their eye, up their anu...

I don't understand.

I would say that your opinion of people is a tad bit too lofty if you really don't think that someone, somewhere hasn't tried it before.

866 webevintage  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:01:14pm

re: #851 SanFranciscoZionist

I have to say, I like corduroy skirts. Does he have scriptural support for that assertion?

Leviticus 19 LOL translation:

18 No gettin back at peeples or makin drama. Free luvz to all! I IZ CEILING CAT.
19 Don't screw dees things up:
No shackin wif teh dog.
No raisin coca AND teh pot in teh same garage.
No pleather.
And no corduroy either.
I IZ CEILING CAT and I hates corduroy.

867 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:01:36pm
868 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:02:13pm

re: #840 iceweasel

I object! Iceweasels apparently can be domesticated, but are never tame, sir.

Objection sustained! We domit reciprocally and equally :)

869 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:02:47pm

re: #867 Marsoupial

Think McDonalds coffee labeled "Warning, HOT!"

I'm surprised toilets don't have warning labels telling us to pull down our pants.

870 carey94tt  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:03:07pm

re: #860 Walter L. Newton

Two small words to make the instructions *very* clear. I don't see a problem.

871 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:05:54pm

O/T:
Cognitive Dissonance alert...
A limited edition , genuine Mattel 'Burka Barbie ' is being sold in an effort to raise money for Save the Children. No shiite.
Must be ' save the boy children'... they can't be thinking about the welfare of the little girls.
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

872 bwrader  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:06:57pm

All valid reasons...

Sad to see how crazy some people have gotten.

873 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:06:58pm

Is it time for the Overnight Motion Thread yet?

874 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:07:13pm

The Moderate Voice just did a post on this.

guy's name is Joe Gandelman...I feel like that is familiar, who is he?

875 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:07:54pm
876 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:09:05pm

re: #831 Sharmuta

I share this concern as well. I often feel like I'm on my own island: a social liberal who supports Israel's right to be and doesn't confuse Hamas with 'freedom fighters' nor view settlement construction in the West Bank as occupation.

877 Irenicum  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:09:05pm

I just read up on William Gibson. That is absafrikkinlutely cool that he reads LGF!

878 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:09:44pm

re: #856 iceweasel
Then again, Ben Smith's readers aren't really typical Politico readers, either.

879 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:09:45pm

re: #866 webevintage

Leviticus 19 LOL translation:

18 No gettin back at peeples or makin drama. Free luvz to all! I IZ CEILING CAT.
19 Don't screw dees things up:
No shackin wif teh dog.
No raisin coca AND teh pot in teh same garage.
No pleather.
And no corduroy either.
I IZ CEILING CAT and I hates corduroy.

Have mercy, Ceiling Cat!

All thy baseless phobias I can obey, but one:

Thou dost demand sacrificial furniture, yet I cannot afford anything but pleather.

How can I please thee and still feed my Jindo, Ceiling Cat?

If thou dost not relent, I shall renounce thee and worship Dog in thy place!

880 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:10:13pm

re: #873 Walter L. Newton

Is it time for the Overnight Motion Thread yet?

Do we need motion-sickness pills for that?

881 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:10:40pm
882 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:11:31pm

re: #874 iceweasel

He's a ventriloquist.///

883 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:11:39pm

re: #881 speakingtruthtogroupthink

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

884 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:11:45pm

Bye now!

885 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:11:49pm

re: #881 speakingtruthtogroupthink


I got a fever, and the only cure is more flounce!

886 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:11:59pm

Watched that one til it popped. Fun was had by all.

887 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:12:52pm
888 Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:13:14pm

Just to prove that I am more "conservative" than any other wanna be neo-rightist out there I am hereby calling for the return of chastity belts on all females over the age of seven. Once they get married their husband will be given the key, obviously this will completely eliminate any need for sex-ed, birth control, or abortions.

See how simple it really is to solve all of Americas most divisive issues with one simple and very "conservative" law?

///

889 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:13:21pm

re: #879 Cato the Elder

CEILING CAT answers to no man. CEILING CAT has spoken.

890 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:13:48pm

re; #881 [deleted]

Flounce-O-Meter™ reads:

Whiney Flounce.

891 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:14:07pm

re: #884 Charles

Bye now!

Get ready for a lot more of that in the days to come.

Funny how you can be an apostate from a church you never joined.

892 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:14:22pm

re: #881 speakingtruthtogroupthink
You're toast in about a nanosecond, but you had one thing going for ya... a cool nic. Maybe someone who actually wants to post here will pick it up next time registration is open.

893 Jack Fate  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:14:26pm

Hi, I am new here. This post summarizes why I no longer self-identify as a "right winger" or "conservative".

894 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:14:59pm

Vintage, I love the God Hates Protesters site.

895 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:15:21pm

Time to haul out Bette Davis for the next 24 hours or so...

Fasten your seatbelts, boys, it's going to be a bumpy ride!

896 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:16:01pm

re: #866 webevintage

Leviticus 19 LOL translation:

18 No gettin back at peeples or makin drama. Free luvz to all! I IZ CEILING CAT.
19 Don't screw dees things up:
No shackin wif teh dog.
No raisin coca AND teh pot in teh same garage.
No pleather.
And no corduroy either.
I IZ CEILING CAT and I hates corduroy.

Outstanding!

897 Irenicum  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:16:02pm

Dramamine on the house!

898 Vercimber  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:16:11pm

I'm a little late to the party, and this is actually my first comment, but I wanted to say something about this.

Someone mentioned people like Michael Moore, and Cindy Sheehan, and Jimmy Carter before in a negative way. Someone may not agree with their stances, or their liberal views, but you cannot put Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan or the vast majority of the "left" in the same category as what we see from the right now. Michael Moore makes movies about how important health care reform is (which it is, and I recommend ANY conservative who disagrees to read [Link: business.theatlantic.com...] and how evil and subversive our business culture has become (which it has). How is that in the same stratosphere as the outright lies and hate speech that Beck and Limbaugh spread? Cindy Sheehan protested a war that caused her to lose her child, how is that comparable to anything Pat Buchanan or Pat Robertson have said/done?

That's where the disconnect is at this point. The left (to me, as an independent) seems to want to approach situations with a rational, logical discussion about issues. The right seems to want to exclude everyone but a select few, do everything they can to subvert the process, smear anyone who disagrees or even TRIES to deal with issues, and perpetuate their medieval way of thinking, all while stoking fear and isolation.

People like Charles are a beacon of hope in a very dark time. It takes an incredible amount of courage to realize something is wrong, and stand up for it, especially when the dogs on the other side of the fence are barking so loud.

Our country has turned on itself, and we are beginning to cannibalize ourselves from the inside. People seem to forget what that we are all human beings; we are all born, we all suffer, we all die, and we all deserve decency and respect.

899 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:16:32pm

re: #883 Gus 802

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Where's my echo chamber? Waaah!

900 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:16:40pm

Wow this post was the best douchebag bait I've seen here in months. They are coming like the bugs in Starship Troopers. Stinky will be tired tonight.

901 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:16:59pm

re: #897 Irenicum
You got the drama part right...///

902 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:17:04pm

re: #898 Vercimber

Yep- the right is nothing but evil.

903 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:17:04pm

re: #877 Irenicum

Lazy one's request...
Linky?

904 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:17:06pm

re: #871 tradewind

O/T:
Cognitive Dissonance alert...
A limited edition , genuine Mattel 'Burka Barbie ' is being sold in an effort to raise money for Save the Children. No shiite.
Must be ' save the boy children'... they can't be thinking about the welfare of the little girls.
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]

It doesn't matter. All Barbies end up naked and having sex with Ken sooner or later.

Which is not to say that Barbie in a Burqa doesn't make my brain go sploik. In several ways.

905 webevintage  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:17:52pm

The Ceiling Cat is all loving and Purrr-fect.
[Link: www.lolcatbible.com...]

turn thee from Basement Cat, it eats souls...

906 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:18:17pm

re: #899 Jimmah

Where's my echo chamber? Waaah!

It's in the basement. Just follow the chicken feathers.

/

907 Irenicum  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:18:39pm

re: #903 Floral Giraffe

I wiki'd his name and read the entry. It's decently long. I think I wanna start reading some of his stuff.

908 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:18:46pm

re: #906 Gus 802

It's in the basement. Just follow the chicken feathers.

/

In the basement, rubbing the lotion on its skin...

909 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:18:49pm

re: #902 Sharmuta

Yep- the right is nothing but evil.

It's evil!

910 The Sanity Inspector  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:18:56pm

re: #893 Jack Fate

Hi, I am new here. This post summarizes why I no longer self-identify as a "right winger" or "conservative".

Each side gets its turn on the funny farm. A sensible, ideas-rich Right will return some day, like they did in '94. As for now, right-wing crazies get talk show slots, like left-wing crazies get tenure. We'll see who ultimately proves to wreak the most lasting damage to the body politic.

911 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:19:03pm

Just because it seems so apt, somehow : Primitives - Crash

912 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:19:13pm

re: #898 Vercimber

Moore's a douchebag with an axe to grind who tries to pass his stuff off as documentary when in fact it's propaganda.

That being said I did like some of Fahrenheit 9/11. Some.

913 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:19:17pm

re: #900 ArchangelMichael

Wow this post was the best douchebag bait I've seen here in months. They are coming like the bugs in Starship Troopers. Stinky will be tired tonight.

heh. Yep.

914 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:19:40pm

re: #904 SanFranciscoZionist
Heard a tv pundit ask if suicide vest Ken was the accompaniment.
Seriously, Mattel manufactured this farce? Very bad move.
The anti-role model,... not that Barbie was ever such a great one of those...

915 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:20:21pm

re: #898 Vercimber

Actually I can easily put Sheehan, Carter, and Moore in the same room with Bachmann, Beck, and O'Reilly. The only question would be who emerges alive.

All of them would trade truth for power in a pulsebeat. All of them are media whores. All of them are liars and hypocrites.

Have you ever read about how Carter basely played the race card in Chicago?

Don't piss on my rubber ducky and tell me it's perfume.

916 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:20:31pm

re: #908 iceweasel

In the basement, rubbing the lotion on its skin...

Ace-O-Spuds Hand Cream™

Or try Uncle Jimbo's Shaving Butter™

917 webevintage  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:21:21pm

re: #908 iceweasel

In the basement, rubbing the lotion on its skin...

"it puts the lotion on the skin, or else it gets the hose again"

918 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:21:33pm

re: #898 Vercimber

The right seems to want to exclude everyone but a select few, do everything they can to subvert the process, smear anyone who disagrees or even TRIES to deal with issues, and perpetuate their medieval way of thinking, all while stoking fear and isolation.

People like Charles are a beacon of hope in a very dark time. It takes an incredible amount of courage to realize something is wrong, and stand up for it, especially when the dogs on the other side of the fence are barking so loud.

An accurate description of the right at the moment, but hopefully not forever. And fully agree with the rest above.
Welcome!

919 carey94tt  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:22:13pm

re: #898 Vercimber

I'm sorry but I absolutely *DO* put Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan in the crazy pit...they so belong there. What are you thinking?

920 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:22:15pm
921 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:22:50pm

re: #917 webevintage

"it puts the lotion on the skin, or else it gets the hose again"

Careful now. Dan Riehl might be reading this.

922 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:23:12pm

re: #907 Irenicum

OK, I'll go look!

923 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:23:31pm

If your browser is slowing waaay down in this thread, I strongly advise ditching Internet Explorer and using Safari or Firefox instead.

IE is horrible with large web pages.

924 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:24:13pm

re: #916 Gus 802

Ace-O-Spuds Hand Cream™

Or try Uncle Jimbo's Shaving Butter™

Heh. I'm happy not trying anything that belongs to Ace or Uncle jimbo...and I'm pretty sure they use their "hand cream" and "shaving butter" for similar purposes, IYKWIMAITTYD.

925 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:24:23pm

re: #898 Vercimber

The left (to me, as an independent) seems to want to approach situations with a rational, logical discussion about issues

... Not so much. We can't even get 'em to put the freaking health care bill up on the internet for serious discussion.
They want to approach situations with ' don't muddy the issue with facts, we feel so deeply and care so much, what could go wrong?'

926 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:24:55pm

re: #913 iceweasel

Usul, we have flounce-sign the likes of which even God has never seen.

927 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:25:43pm

re: #924 iceweasel

Acronyms only work when other people know what the hell they mean without having to go look on another site to figure out the answer.

928 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:25:56pm

re: #926 ArchangelMichael
Actually, I'm surprised there haven't been more. This is nuthin' compared to a Limbaugh or abortion fest.

929 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:25:59pm

re: #921 Gus 802

Careful now. Dan Riehl might be reading this.

Dan Riehl can read? I know he can type, but I didn't think he could read.
/

930 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:26:22pm

re: #923 Charles

If your browser is slowing waaay down in this thread, I strongly advise ditching Internet Explorer and using Safari or Firefox instead.

IE is horrible with large web pages.

Or Chrome.

931 carey94tt  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:26:26pm

re: #923 Charles

Try Chrome...aside from the lack of plugin support.

932 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:26:29pm

re: #927 TheMatrix31

Acronyms only work when other people know what the hell they mean without having to go look on another site to figure out the answer.

Sucks to be you.

933 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:26:32pm

re: #914 tradewind

Heard a tv pundit ask if suicide vest Ken was the accompaniment.
Seriously, Mattel manufactured this farce? Very bad move.
The anti-role model,... not that Barbie was ever such a great one of those...

Well, that's the thing. I mean, first she had the ridiculous figure and the teeny feet molded into high heel posture so she couldn't walk barefoot or wear flats. Now a burqa? I mean, jeez, decide which culture is oppressing this doll already.

What is she wearing underneath the burqa?

934 [deleted]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:27:04pm
935 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:27:12pm

re: #927 TheMatrix31

Acronyms only work when other people know what the hell they mean without having to go look on another site to figure out the answer.

If you have Firefox, highlight the acronym, right-click, and select "search Google for XYZ".

I know you're slow, so that tip is for free.

936 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:27:23pm

re: #921 Gus 802

Careful now. Dan Riehl might be reading this.

I think of most of us could riehly not care less if he is.

937 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:27:42pm

re: #915 Cato the Elder

Actually I can easily put Sheehan, Carter, and Moore in the same room with Bachmann, Beck, and O'Reilly. The only question would be who emerges alive.

My money is on O'Reilly.

938 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:27:55pm

Flounce!

939 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:28:15pm

re: #935 Cato the Elder

Wow, that's fucked up.

940 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:28:16pm

re: #934 caliphornian

They can never just go away and leave their accounts open. That would be...so reasonable...ah, who am I kiddin'?

941 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:28:27pm

re: #934 caliphornian

Wow. Civilized flounce.

942 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:28:36pm

re: #937 SanFranciscoZionist

My money is on O'Reilly.

Bachmann would go down first by thinking slitting her wrists for America would help.

943 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:28:38pm

re: #934 caliphornian

Dammit man! No insults or nothing? No whiney drama queen self glory? You can do better.

944 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:28:47pm

re: #938 Charles

Flounce-lite : less filling.

945 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:28:49pm

My radar detects a large cell of squabble about 50 nautical miles ahead.

946 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:29:08pm

re: #898 Vercimber

I am stupider for having read that. Maybe Micheal Moore will get some credibility when he unburdens himself from all that money in his posession the next time he rails against eeevil capitalism.

Apparently Cindy Sheehan is the only military family member in the USA to have a loved one killed in the last 8 years or so... and I guess we aren't supposed to listen to anybody else.

//

947 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:29:59pm

re: #939 TheMatrix31

Wow, that's fucked up.

Another bombshell aperçu from the bongmeister.

948 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:30:03pm

re: #934 caliphornian

By making a drama queen "oh teh humanity what a world!" post like you just did instead of having the self control required to just never log in again. Your account hanging around isn't going to give you centrist-cooties while you are ranting away at some kookspiracy ODS blog.

949 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:30:06pm

re: #933 SanFranciscoZionist
Probably decked out in Victoria's Secret lingerie, like the Saudi ladies.
No word yet if she's anatomically correct .**
**not sure how they'd depict female circumcision

950 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:30:21pm

re: #927 TheMatrix31

Acronyms only work when other people know what the hell they mean without having to go look on another site to figure out the answer.

FHEYCCSEDIPOGWQM! (With the full DZZJZCZ, of course;-)).

951 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:30:33pm

re: #945 Gus 802

My radar detects a large cell of squabble about 50 nautical miles ahead.

Objects in the mirror might be closer than they appear...

952 Patterico  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:30:34pm

I disagree.

953 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:31:28pm

re: #952 Patterico

I disagree.

Judges?

I'm sorry. Could you be a little more vague?

954 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:31:35pm

re: #952 Patterico

I disagree.

Really? I'm looking at it right here and that's what I'm seeing.

955 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:06pm

re: #952 Patterico

I disagree.

I object.

956 Summer Seale  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:12pm

re: #923 Charles

If your browser is slowing waaay down in this thread, I strongly advise ditching Internet Explorer and using Safari or Firefox instead.

IE is horrible with large web pages.

Chrome also works amazingly well. =)

957 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:12pm

re: #952 Patterico

Flounce-O-Meter;™ Reading:

Winner - shortest flounce category.

958 Charles Johnson  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:14pm

William Gibson's tweet about this post:

LGF: Feels like some rare astronomical event, something we hear about but don't bother hoping to see: somebody changing their mind.

959 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:25pm

re: #955 Sharmuta

I object.

Overruled!

960 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:27pm

re: #955 Sharmuta

I object.

I digress.

961 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:29pm

re: #952 Patterico

I disagree.

Sorry, this is arguments.

Disagreements is two doors down.

962 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:39pm

re: #959 Gus 802

Overruled!

Concur!

963 webevintage  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:47pm

re: #925 tradewind

... Not so much. We can't even get 'em to put the freaking health care bill up on the internet for serious discussion.
They want to approach situations with ' don't muddy the issue with facts, we feel so deeply and care so much, what could go wrong?'

Its right here:
[Link: lincoln.senate.gov...]

Today the GOP stopped the suggestion that "all health care reform amendments must first be posted online before being considered in order".

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]


"A message left with Enzi wasn't immediately returned. But on the floor, Enzi said he didn't trust the other party enough to go along. "In light of some of the trust problems and transparency problems we have, while this appears to lead to greater transparency, we can also see ways that this can limit the ability for the minority to offer amendments. And, therefore, I object," he said."

964 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:48pm

re: #955 Sharmuta

I object.

I concur

965 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:53pm

re: #947 Cato the Elder

Another bombshell aperçu from the bongmeister.

Words only work when people already know them! Now I'll have to google bongmeister. :(

/

966 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:32:57pm

re: #960 Bagua

I digress.

I forget.

967 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:33:08pm

re: #962 Bagua

Concur!

Noted on the record.

968 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:33:27pm

re: #945 Gus 802

My radar detects a large cell of squabble about 50 nautical miles ahead.

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."

That would be Pam Geller and her multiple multiples.

969 leon77  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:34:38pm

Agreed...

970 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:35:04pm

re: #952 Patterico

If it's really Patterico, I'm interested in hearing what he has to say.
But, being the intertubes, it's easy for someone to take anothers name.
Still, let's hear some details, please?

971 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:35:25pm

re: #958 Charles

Seems a little unfair. There have been a lot of minds changed because of LGF.

972 drogheda  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:35:59pm

re: #933 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that's the thing. I mean, first she had the ridiculous figure and the teeny feet molded into high heel posture so she couldn't walk barefoot or wear flats. Now a burqa? I mean, jeez, decide which culture is oppressing this doll already.

What is she wearing underneath the burqa?

Another burqa.

973 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:36:50pm

re: #968 Cato the Elder

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."

That would be Pam Geller and her multiple multiples.

The Muslins are coming the Muslins ar comming!!!11111! lol

//

974 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:37:03pm

re: #949 tradewind

Probably decked out in Victoria's Secret lingerie, like the Saudi ladies.
No word yet if she's anatomically correct .**
**not sure how they'd depict female circumcision

There's a scene in one of Gina Nahai's books where the heroine sees a famous prostitute on the streets of Tehran (I think), wearing nothing but a chador and high boots. But she's a crazy rebel, and is, I think, drunk.

Barbie has never had a clitoris, so FGM will not be an issue. Don't think it's done in Afghanistan anyway.

975 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:37:25pm

re: #963 webevintage
Oh, that's right. Ms Lincoln did manage to blackmail them into that one, along with a whole bunch of money for AR. Good for her...///
Sorry, but you won't be able to convince me that the left is generally interested in a free flow of information when it comes to policy making. Look at POTUS. He was elected on the premise that he would a ) change the way DC operated, partisan-wise, and b) get rid of lobbyists as a factor. He's done just the opposite.

976 Racer X  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:38:02pm

I think the GOP is going to lose a lot of supporters once they adopt the Purity Test

977 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:38:12pm

re: #957 Bagua

Flounce-O-Meter;™ Reading:

Winner - shortest flounce category.

I heard it was a lot like Gerard Van der Loonies piece.

978 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:38:14pm

re: #971 Sharmuta

Credit is rarely given to positive news. As is so often the case. I can only hope that many other bloggers start to expound on the lemming-ness of the reactionaries/revanchists.

979 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:38:55pm

re: #974 SanFranciscoZionist

Don't think it's done in Afghanistan anyway.

Really, in the heart of Taliban land?
That's surprising.

980 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:39:16pm

re: #974 SanFranciscoZionist

Barbie has never had a clitoris [...]

How would you know? ;^)

981 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:39:24pm

re: #976 Racer X
It's already been scrapped.

982 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:39:51pm

re: #971 Sharmuta

Seems a little unfair. There have been a lot of minds changed because of LGF.

I cant speak for sure about William Gibson, but a lot of blogs posting these "wow I actually agree with LGF" still think this place is some Islamophobic racist hate monger far right kook site just slightly to the left of Stormfront. Which of course has never been true. It only looks that way through Code Pink colored glasses.

983 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:40:12pm

re: #968 Cato the Elder
"Release the flying monkeys!"

984 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:40:54pm

re: #975 tradewind

Look at POTUS. He was elected on the premise that he would a ) change the way DC operated, partisan-wise, and b) get rid of lobbyists as a factor. He's done just the opposite.

False.

Lobbyists pushed off advisory panels
White House initiative to limit influence could affect thousands

Hundreds, if not thousands, of lobbyists are likely to be ejected from federal advisory panels as part of a little-noticed initiative by the Obama administration to curb K Street's influence in Washington, according to White House officials and lobbying experts.

The new policy -- issued with little fanfare this fall by the White House ethics counsel -- may turn out to be the most far-reaching lobbying rule change so far from President Obama, who also has sought to restrict the ability of lobbyists to get jobs in his administration and to negotiate over stimulus contracts.

985 LotharBot  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:41:02pm

re: #864 bandit

Since we live in a free country that puts individuals first, the decision to abort has to be made by individuals who will live with the consequence.

We also live in a country that protects vulnerable individuals from those who don't have their best interests in mind.

And we live in a country where both major political parties act like we should have exactly the same abortion laws for a just-fertilized egg and a healthy, viable 39-week fetus.

That's what makes abortion such a contentious and divisive issue.

986 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:41:17pm

re: #981 tradewind

It's already been scrapped.

Wha happened?

Surely Mr. Bopp couldn't have grown a brain in such a short time.

987 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:41:26pm

re: #975 tradewind

Sorry, but you won't be able to convince me that the left is generally interested in a free flow of information when it comes to policy making.

As opposed to Dick "Dick" Cheney and his energy commission?

Seriously, what administration has ever not payed lip-service to "transparency" while putting up directional-microphone-proof jalousies on all the windows?

988 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:42:14pm

The Primitives are full of succulent aptness tonight : Way Behind Me

989 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:43:33pm

re: #982 ArchangelMichael
That is one example of a problem I have with the left wing: they would assign rightwing-ery to anyone who expresses outrage over the attacks of 9-11 and shows further concern re the spread of radical Islam and national security.

990 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:43:51pm

BTW, to pimp one of the links I posted, on the Antarctic Climate Change and the Environment Report... I'm reading/skimming it and wow, what a sizeable amount of research it summarizes.

Lots of good stuff in there... but it is very technical in areas.

The chapters provide detail background on many aspects of climate change, covering more than just the Antarctic. Lots of comparisons between the northern and southern hemisphere.

For the science nerd, but worth it.

991 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:43:51pm

re: #952 Patterico

I disagree.

With what?

Does the curtain design not match the wood floors?

992 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:43:52pm

re: #978 freetoken

Credit is rarely given to positive news. As is so often the case. I can only hope that many other bloggers start to expound on the lemming-ness of the reactionaries/revanchists.

Seems some new readers don't know much about the history of this site, is all. A lot of minds were changed because of VB and the Discovery Institute and if it weren't for LGF changing those minds, I don't know where many of us who had our minds changed would be right now. Ignorant of euro-fascists? Ignorant of evolution? These are closely tied- and if not for LGF, many of us wouldn't have had the insight to see the problems with the tea parties. Which reminds me of all the minds changed on that issue.

I'm happy for Charles a prominent author is reading LGF, it's just unfortunate he doesn't realize how common it is for minds to change at this site.

993 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:44:29pm

re: #987 Cato the Elder

As opposed to Dick "Dick" Cheney and his energy commission?

Seriously, what administration has ever not payed lip-service to "transparency" while putting up directional-microphone-proof jalousies on all the windows?

That thing is still under wraps and barred from the FOIA. The only thing they released was a few maps of oil fields in Iraq and such. It also marked the end of Bush's position in siding with carbon caps and led to the resignation of Christine Todd Whitman.

994 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:44:30pm

re: #984 iceweasel
Laughable. He's actually hired lobbyists.
And the health care thing is causing them to swarm into DC.

995 fried spam  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:44:37pm

Charles, I disagree with your opinion about many, perhaps most, of these folks.

996 erraticsphinx  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:45:05pm

Oooh, tweets about to hit 5000!

997 austin_blue  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:45:10pm

re: #932 iceweasel

Sucks to be you.

She Who Must be Obeyed and I will be in the UK over the holidays, coincidentally for a wedding, which includes an original Silly Wizard (ask Jimmah). Where can we get some light goggles so we don't commit suicide dealing with the 7 1/2 hours of daylight? Where can we get sufficient drugs not to commit suicide flying into The Hell That Is Heathrow? Enquiring minds, &c.

Oh, and to your betrothed, "Jimmah! Buy us a pint, then, there's a good lad!"

These are obviously rhetorical questions.

Unless you guys want to get together at The George for a pint of Abbot's.

And to all, a good night!

998 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:45:15pm

re: #984 iceweasel


Instead, they'll probably just get some cabinet level position or Czar appointment.

999 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:45:24pm

re: #979 tradewind

Really, in the heart of Taliban land?
That's surprising.

It's an Arab and African thing, not traditional in the Stans or the Subcontinent that I know of. Only way I'd expect to see it come in is if foreign jihadis brought it with them, but since it's usually done by women and supervised by female relatives...hey, something positive about Afghanistan!

1000 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:45:28pm

re: #995 fried spam

Charles, I disagree with your opinion about many, perhaps most, of these folks.

Well!

1001 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:45:29pm

re: #982 ArchangelMichael

I cant speak for sure about William Gibson, but a lot of blogs posting these "wow I actually agree with LGF" still think this place is some Islamophobic racist hate monger far right kook site just slightly to the left of Stormfront. Which of course has never been true. It only looks that way through Code Pink colored glasses.

It looked that way to people whose only knowledge of LGF came from old comments by the genocidal freaks who now populate stalker sites. Although those comments were in no way representative of Charles or LGF as a whole, and only representative of Charles' unwillingness to play cop, many people (on the left too) used those comments to paint all of LGF a certain way.

1002 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:45:47pm

re: #980 Cato the Elder

How would you know? ;^)

:)

1003 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:46:24pm

re: #987 Cato the Elder
The difference is that it was the basis of Obama's entire presidential campaign. Now he's puzzled and irritated that his presidential policy speeches are not received as warmly as his campaign speeches.

1004 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:47:18pm

re: #995 fried spam

Charles, I disagree with your opinion about many, perhaps most, of these folks.

Correlates well with your karma.

1005 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:47:31pm

re: #1000 Cato the Elder

Well!

Take that!

1006 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:47:45pm

Tech note:

Flounce-O-Meter™ overheating: condition critical. Our models never predicted this level of Flounce melt.

At this rate the polarity will be Flounce free by this summer which could cause the extinction of Polar Wingnuts!

I'm not trying to sound Alarmist here, but...

Run For Your Life

1007 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:47:56pm

OK. I have to sleep.

Night all.

1008 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:48:05pm

Then there are the minds that have been changed on AGW.

Really- if it wasn't for Charles and LGF, the right would be in an even worse mess.

1009 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:48:12pm

re: #986 Girth
The leakage had a lot to do with it.

1010 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:48:13pm

re: #998 Fenway_Nation

Instead, they'll probably just get some cabinet level position or Czar appointment.

In other words, even when Obama does the right thing, you'll withhold praise or even grudging acknowledgement on the basis that he may do something you don't like in some hypothetical future.

1011 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:49:29pm

re: #999 SanFranciscoZionist
Gives me the cold chills and redefines barbarism.

1012 Girth  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:49:48pm

re: #995 fried spam

Insert obligatory "Rush is just an entertainer" line here...
/

1013 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:49:50pm

re: #1003 tradewind

The difference is that it was the basis of Obama's entire presidential campaign. Now he's puzzled and irritated that his presidential policy speeches are not received as warmly as his campaign speeches.

I voted for him.

I also voted for Bush in 2004.

And I voted for a whole bunch of senators, procunsuls, consuls, praetors, tribunes plebis, and dogcatchers over the last 2,300 years.

Never once did I take their campaign promises into account.

Were you born yesterday, or are you being disingenuous when you recur to things meant for the groundlings?

1014 miguelj  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:50:41pm

Me too. Goodbye To All That.
Interesting that Alex Jones is an extreme Rightist AND and extreme Leftist, simultaneously.

1015 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:50:51pm

re: #1007 SanFranciscoZionist
me too...
Have fun in the overnight skirmishes, lizards...

1016 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:51:34pm

re: #1014 miguelj

Me too. Goodbye To All That.
Interesting that Alex Jones is an extreme Rightist AND and extreme Leftist, simultaneously.

It's the Jew hate. Creates a wrap-around effect.

1017 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:52:09pm

re: #995 fried spam

Charles, I disagree with your opinion about many, perhaps most, of these folks.

bummer, man! Must be heartbreaking.

1018 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:53:06pm

re: #1006 Bagua

It's not the flounceage alone that will cause the singularity. It's that, plus unprecedented levels of butthurt, combined with impotent, drunken, vodka-typo-inducing rage, that shall implode the craposphere.

1019 erraticsphinx  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:53:15pm

re: #1014 miguelj

His bread is definitely buttered on the right side nowadays. Commercials on the Rush Limbaugh show and all, he's going after his target audience.

1020 webevintage  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:54:21pm

On my way to bed to read a bit, but for those LOST fans out there here is a new trailer (in Spanish) for your viewing pleasure.
Men are Pawns of Gods...

~chills~

why is John Locke's back turned to us?

1021 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:54:22pm

re: #1019 erraticsphinx

His bread is definitely buttered on the right side nowadays. Commercials on the Rush Limbaugh show and all, he's going after his target audience.

A troofer! Getting mainstreamed by the right. Just disgusting.

1022 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:54:46pm

re: #1013 Cato the Elder

I voted for him.

I also voted for Bush in 2004.

And I voted for a whole bunch of senators, procunsuls, consuls, praetors, tribunes plebis, and dogcatchers over the last 2,300 years.

Never once did I take their campaign promises into account.

Were you born yesterday, or are you being disingenuous when you recur to things meant for the groundlings?

See, that's the difference between intelligent people who vote and stupid people who vote. Intelligent people KNOW that campaign promises are bullshit. On all sides. And they don't go around playing gotcha games about every campaign promise under the sun. Seeing the political game for what it is, and still remaining part of the process. Like being into pro wrestling and knowng what kayfabe is.

1023 tradewind  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:55:01pm

re: #1013 Cato the Elder
Just grousing. Going to sleep now.
But the congressional losses in '10 will be all his, and they'll be heavier than anyone is saying now.
(Of course, if I'm wrong, someone can always dig up this post and laugh) .
:)

1024 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:55:55pm

re: #1014 miguelj

Me too. Goodbye To All That.
Interesting that Alex Jones is an extreme Rightist AND and extreme Leftist, simultaneously.

Les extrèmes se touchent.

1025 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:56:26pm

Change? What change?


Plus ça change, plus c’est le même chose.


The Blog is still the same, Bagua is…


Still Drunk, Still Crazy, Still Blue

1026 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:56:31pm

re: #1014 miguelj

Me too. Goodbye To All That.
Interesting that Alex Jones is an extreme Rightist AND and extreme Leftist, simultaneously.

He's what we like to call a Good Businessman. Stick a finger up to feel which way the wind is blowing, create content to fill a need, repeat until rich.

1027 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:57:09pm

re: #1010 iceweasel

In other words, even when Obama does the right thing, you'll withhold praise or even grudging acknowledgement on the basis that he may do something you don't like in some hypothetical future.

I hate to compare the presidents but think about this. Obama is catching heat for delaying his decision on Afghanistan. Well, I like to think about Bush's delayed decision on Rumsfeld who as kept on board even though he was performing poorly with Iraq. It took the '06 election before he was finally "fired" and once Gates took over it was like night and day.

And when Obama finally approves the additional 30,000 plus troops tomorrow? All you'll hear is a lot of moaning about the delay and I'm sure all of the arm chair chickenhawks generals will be compelled to comment.

1028 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:58:09pm

re: #1010 iceweasel

In other words, even when Obama does the right thing, you'll withhold praise or even grudging acknowledgement on the basis that he may do something you don't like in some hypothetical future.

Not very hypothetical with Pelosicare, Card Check, Cap & Trade and this upcoming let's-kneecap-the-developed-countries clusterf*ck in Hopenhagen Copenhagen.

Don't get me wrong...he's done the right thing a couple of times, but it's lost in the dithering, bad decisions, obfuscation and used car salesman sales pitches as far as I'm concerned.

1029 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:58:15pm

re: #1018 Cato the Elder

It's not the flounceage alone that will cause the singularity. It's that, plus unprecedented levels of butthurt, combined with impotent, drunken, vodka-typo-inducing rage, that shall implode the craposphere.

Favourited. Oh, the butthurt!

Page 1
BUTTHURT REPORT FORM
(INTERNET VERSION)
PROVIDED AS A PUBLIC SERVICE
DATE AND TIME THAT YOU EXPERIENCED BUTTHURT:
PLEASE DESCRIBE THE NATURE OF THE BUTTHURT.

D LiveJournal Post
D Message Board Post
D Comment Thread
D Chat Room
□ Blog Post
D LOLCat
□ Random Joke/Cartoon/News Item That You Found
□ Other (Please specify)

PLEASE TELL US MORE ABOUT THE INCIDENT OF BUTTHURT.
D Someone made a blog post that I didn't agree with.
□ Someone posted a cartoon or drawing that I didn't like.
□ Someone wrote a story or anecdote that brought up Bad Memories and made me cry.
□ Someone mucked up the storyline in my RP.
□ I found out my internet-boyfriend/girlfriend is cheating on me using an alias.
□ Someone posted pornography and sullied my innocent virgin eyes.
□ Someone posted pornography and my boss saw it.
□ I lost an argument in a chat room
D I asked for critique on my art/writing and got it
D Other (please describe. Use the back of this form and/or attach separate sheets as necessary.)
Were there tears?
Was there permanent mental scarring from the butthurt?
Was there lost sleep from the butthurt?
Did you miss work or arrive late to work because of the butthurt?
Were you forced to employ a Coping Mechanism, such as switching off your computer and going outside for a while?
Were there emergency phone calls or text messages that cost you minutes?
Was there any incident of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome resulting from you typing up long-ass Butthurt Rebuttals?

PLEASE TELL US MORE ABOUT THE PERSON WHO CAUSED THE BUTTHURT.
D They are a big mean poopy pants who should be banned from the internet forever or at least until they learn that I am right and superior and they are wrong and should bow down and worship me now..
□ They deserve to be hunted down like a dog and shot dead on their own front porch.
□ They and their ilk deserve to be rounded up and herded into concentration camps.
□ There should be laws to punish people like that.
□ They should be kicked out of America, because we're the home of the free and we just don't DO shit like that here.
□ They should be just as accountable for their actions online as they are in the real world, and also so I can have access to all their personal information so I can stalk them.
D All of the above.

DID YOU TAKE ANY ACTIONS YOURSELF REGARDING THE BUTTHURT?
D I wrote a six thousand word response detailing the extent of my butthurt and emailed it to them or posted it
in their blog comments.
□ I sent an incoherent flame to them from a dummy account.
□ I used a spam program to send them multiple flame emails.
□ I organized a DDoS attack on their server/website.
□ I got all my bestest friends together and organized a flamewar.
□ I created new emails/LJ accounts for the specific purpose of flaming this person.
□ I posted this person's RL information everywhere I could think of; they'll get a Molotov cocktail through their bedroom window sooner or later, and that'll teach 'em to mess with me.
D I realized that arguing on the internet is usually pointless and found something else to do with my time

1030 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:58:21pm

Wingnut downdings tickle!

1031 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:58:23pm

re: #1019 erraticsphinx

His bread is definitely buttered on the right side nowadays. Commercials on the Rush Limbaugh show and all, he's going after his target audience.

The target audience is whichever peoples' pores are open. Whoever is angry and feels powerless and is prone to flights of fancy, grand unified conspiracy theories, that is who Alex Jones will market to.

1032 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 10:59:54pm

re: #1027 Gus 802

I hate to compare the presidents but think about this. Obama is catching heat for delaying his decision on Afghanistan. Well, I like to think about Bush's delayed decision on Rumsfeld who as kept on board even though he was performing poorly with Iraq. It took the '06 election before he was finally "fired" and once Gates took over it was like night and day.

And when Obama finally approves the additional 30,000 plus troops tomorrow? All you'll hear is a lot of moaning about the delay and I'm sure all of the arm chair chickenhawks generals will be compelled to comment.

All I have to say about Obama and war is that he should, really, he really should oughta have deferred that stupid prize from Oslo.

Really.

1033 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:01:00pm

re: #1022 WindUpBird

Actually- one of the most successful campaigns in recent history not only had 10 campaign promises, there were names attached to it. And they did keep their promises, and they people were pleased. Then it all fell apart because no one followed up on it.

It's too bad. Folks want to think a politician will do what they say, and why shouldn't they other than the fact it's a politician? Is it really too much to ask for them to keep their word? If so, perhaps we should select a better caliber of person to represent us. Maybe it's just as easy for those of us in the electorate to accept the status quo than to put in the hard work of getting good representation.

1034 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:01:30pm

re: #1014 miguelj

Me too. Goodbye To All That.
Interesting that Alex Jones is an extreme Rightist AND and extreme Leftist, simultaneously.

He actually neither. He's on the kook fringe of libertarianism that moves beyond distrust of big government to an irrational paranoid fear of nearly all government. He did not switch sides. He's consistent in his fear of government and belief that everything is a conspiracy. When Bush was president, he and the troofers were aligned with the BDS dems. Now that Obama is in charge, Jones is mostly aligned with the unhinged ODS republicans.

1035 rhino2  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:02:20pm

re: #139 researchok

Term limits would go a long way in fixing this nation.

I often wonder how/why there were never any term limits inferred on the Senate and House.

1036 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:03:10pm

re: #1032 Cato the Elder

All I have to say about Obama and war is that he should, really, he really should oughta have deferred that stupid prize from Oslo.

Really.

The pessimist in me agrees with that. Since I don't really have a say in the matter I'm a bit flexible. I don't see any victory in that fight unless that society changes. I am not seeing much of a change there especially with Karzai in power.

There was an interesting comment from Obama a couple of weeks ago where he said "I didn't deserve this" refering to the NPP.

1037 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:03:10pm

re: #1035 rhino2

I often wonder how/why there were never any term limits inferred on the Senate and House.

They do have limits. A term is 2 years in the House, and it's 6 years in the Senate.

1038 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:03:13pm

re: #1035 rhino2

Term limits haven't helped to govern California.

1039 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:04:07pm

re: #1033 Sharmuta

Oops, you must be one of the "stupid people that vote". That sucks.

1040 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:04:58pm

re: #1038 freetoken

It's a civics short cut, and not a good one.

1041 ArchangelMichael  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:05:01pm

re: #1038 freetoken

Term limits haven't helped to govern California.

Because IIRC they are 14 years for 2-year term positions. They might as well not even exist.

1042 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:06:07pm

re: #1036 Gus 802

The pessimist in me agrees with that. Since I don't really have a say in the matter I'm a bit flexible. I don't see any victory in that fight unless that society changes. I am not seeing much of a change there especially with Karzai in power.

There was an interesting comment from Obama a couple of weeks ago where he said "I didn't deserve this" refering to the NPP.

It's just unfortunate, to say the least, that a POTUS running two wars is being given a "peace" prize.
IIRC Obama did say from the beginning that he didn't feel he deserved the award.

1043 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:06:24pm

I've noticed an effect this blog has had on me. It's sorta made me lose my taste for defending Obama online. Not because I'm not an Obama supporter (It would take something truly shocking for me to vote for a Republican for president in 2012) but because it's just become not worth the effort to respond to snark and gotchas and logical fallacies and nitpicking and strawmen and tu quoque and confirmation bias and fundamental attribution error and people who claim he's a narcissist, which is totally the watered down less-racial version of saying he's uppity. It's made me realize that all the petty snark about Obama doesn't matter, it's digital farts in the wind. At the end of the day, he's still President. Of These United States. Cheers, guys :)

1044 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:07:02pm

re: #1033 Sharmuta

Actually- one of the most successful campaigns in recent history not only had 10 campaign promises, there were names attached to it. And they did keep their promises, and they people were pleased. Then it all fell apart because no one followed up on it.

It's too bad. Folks want to think a politician will do what they say, and why shouldn't they other than the fact it's a politician? Is it really too much to ask for them to keep their word? If so, perhaps we should select a better caliber of person to represent us. Maybe it's just as easy for those of us in the electorate to accept the status quo than to put in the hard work of getting good representation.

The problem is it's hard to keep your word when you can't predict the future.

1045 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:07:41pm

This lizard needs sleep too. G'night.

1046 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:08:24pm

re: #1036 Gus 802

There was an interesting comment from Obama a couple of weeks ago where he said "I didn't deserve this" refering to the NPP.

And if I don't deserve something, I hand it back and suggest a better recipient. Unless I really, really need 1.4 million dollars.

Which I do, but that's another story.

Obama needs the money like God needs planets, and he needs a Nobel Peace Prize hanging around his neck as he sends more young people into battle like a submarine needs screened doors.

1047 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:08:45pm

re: #1027 Gus 802


Don't even start with the chickenhawk bullshit...that should be beneath you.

So far, the most reassuring thing about the troop decision was that it was immediately protested by Micheal Moore and Code Pink. That's probably the biggest risk the president has taken so far, pissing off his base like that.

1048 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:08:48pm

re: #1042 iceweasel

It's just unfortunate, to say the least, that a POTUS running two wars is being given a "peace" prize.
IIRC Obama did say from the beginning that he didn't feel he deserved the award.

It was ceremonial. Perhaps there's another word for it.

Tomorrow he speaks at West Point.

1049 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:09:22pm

re: #1043 WindUpBird

I've noticed an effect this blog has had on me. It's sorta made me lose my taste for defending Obama online. Not because I'm not an Obama supporter (It would take something truly shocking for me to vote for a Republican for president in 2012) but because it's just become not worth the effort to respond to snark and gotchas and logical fallacies and nitpicking and strawmen and tu quoque and confirmation bias and fundamental attribution error and people who claim he's a narcissist, which is totally the watered down less-racial version of saying he's uppity. It's made me realize that all the petty snark about Obama doesn't matter, it's digital farts in the wind. At the end of the day, he's still President. Of These United States. Cheers, guys :)

Updinged. And I bolded that bit because I think it's important-- just as the charges that Obama is 'arrogant' are likewise dressed up forms of calling him 'uppity', and the references to him as a 'man child' or the like are ways of calling him 'boy'.

1050 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:10:55pm

re: #1044 WindUpBird

DAMNIT! You did it again!
+1

1051 pokeefe  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:12:20pm

Oh well ...

Any attempt to provide an alternative to MSM is going to provoke arguments.

Which is fine as long as the disputants don't take their arguments too seriously.

Few, if any, have direct contact with the events and personalities involved, and form opinions that are doomed to be skewed one way or another depending upon the consensus of their sources, and tempered by any axes they may have to grind.

Which is to say that the arguments are not about the truth, they are rather an opportunity for wit and an opportunity to provoke insight.

When they stop doing that, they stop being interesting.

1052 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:12:31pm

re: #1044 WindUpBird

The problem is it's hard to keep your word when you can't predict the future.

I think the people are willing to accept a certain amount of the situation changing when the rubber starts meeting the road, but there are limits, don't you think?

What in the world is any constituency thinking when they send ethics violators back to Congress? I hear a lot of people asking if this is the best we can do in our representation, and we all know it's not. We could have better leadership- no one wants to step up and be that person. No one wants to put the time into working within the party to see we get that leadership. You can't send kooks and moonbats to their primaries and hope for someone sane, you have to make sure the sane people are there too.

Just forget it.

1053 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:13:12pm

re: #1047 Fenway_Nation

Don't even start with the chickenhawk bullshit...that should be beneath you.

So far, the most reassuring thing about the troop decision was that it was immediately protested by Micheal Moore and Code Pink. That's probably the biggest risk the president has taken so far, pissing off his base like that.

OK I suppose negative reinforcement is better than no reinforcement at all.

1054 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:14:50pm

re: #1032 Cato the Elder

All I have to say about Obama and war is that he should, really, he really should oughta have deferred that stupid prize from Oslo.

Really.

Might not have been politically wise to do so. That's my take on it. To defer the award would be a sign of weakness, maybe?

1055 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:15:02pm

re: #1047 Fenway_Nation

Don't even start with the chickenhawk bullshit...that should be beneath you.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out that when Obama makes his announcement, there WILL be many 'armchair generals' (many of whom blog in their mothers' basements, apparently with one hand) who are going to criticise it-- and some of them do deserve the name chickenhawk.

1056 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:15:03pm

re: #1046 Cato the Elder

And if I don't deserve something, I hand it back and suggest a better recipient. Unless I really, really need 1.4 million dollars.

Which I do, but that's another story.

Obama needs the money like God needs planets, and he needs a Nobel Peace Prize hanging around his neck as he sends more young people into battle like a submarine needs screened doors.

You have to admit that it was somewhat entertaining to watch the (insert PC word for right wing here) blogs genuflect all over the place when it was announced.

1057 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:15:27pm

re: #1047 Fenway_Nation

Don't even start with the chickenhawk bullshit...that should be beneath you.

There are plenty of chickenhawks. It's no bullshit.

1058 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:15:39pm

re: #1047 Fenway_Nation

Don't even start with the chickenhawk bullshit...that should be beneath you.

So far, the most reassuring thing about the troop decision was that it was immediately protested by Micheal Moore and Code Pink. That's probably the biggest risk the president has taken so far, pissing off his base like that.

Code Pink ain't his base. People like me are. Smart professional 20 and 30 somethings who wanted someone who they felt was smart and articulate in office

1059 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:15:53pm

re: #1054 WindUpBird

Might not have been politically wise to do so. That's my take on it. To defer the award would be a sign of weakness, maybe?

No. Strength.

1060 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:17:18pm

re: #1055 iceweasel

There's nothing wrong with pointing out that when Obama makes his announcement, there WILL be many 'armchair generals' (many of whom blog in their mothers' basements, apparently with one hand) who are going to criticise it-- and some of them do deserve the name chickenhawk.

Of course they will. And if it's not going to be the kings of chickenhawdom, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Bill O'Reilly it'll probably be some former goldbricking avionics technician.

1061 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:17:34pm

re: #1058 WindUpBird

Code Pink ain't his base. People like me are. Smart professional 20 and 30 somethings who wanted someone who they felt was smart and articulate in office

exactly. The only reason Obama is in the White House now is because starting around 2004, the Dems realised the base couldn't be Code Pink et al.

The GOP would have done well to learn from what the Dems went through for 8 years, rather than replicating their own errors (only more so).

1062 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:18:30pm

re: #1055 iceweasel

There's nothing wrong with pointing out that when Obama makes his announcement, there WILL be many 'armchair generals' (many of whom blog in their mothers' basements, apparently with one hand) who are going to criticise it-- and some of them do deserve the name chickenhawk.

The beardos!

Guys who read Stratfor every night, guys who play a lot of paper-and-dice wargames and think that gives them an understanding of real war, who fantasize about the apocalypse and kicking ass on looters with guns they don't own, have camo outfits in their closet, who know every tiny detail about every American-produced tank, helicopter, plane, and gun but don't know a thing about history that isn't WWII history...

And they are often very, very bearded. ;-)

1063 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:18:32pm

LMFAO narcissist = racist.

1064 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:18:41pm

re: #1043 WindUpBird

I've noticed an effect this blog has had on me. It's sorta made me lose my taste for defending Obama online. Not because I'm not an Obama supporter (It would take something truly shocking for me to vote for a Republican for president in 2012) but because it's just become not worth the effort to respond to snark and gotchas and logical fallacies and nitpicking and strawmen and tu quoque and confirmation bias and fundamental attribution error and people who claim he's a narcissist, which is totally the watered down less-racial version of saying he's uppity. It's made me realize that all the petty snark about Obama doesn't matter, it's digital farts in the wind. At the end of the day, he's still President. Of These United States. Cheers, guys :)

Obama : wingnut anklebiters (wanklebiters?) tickle!

Image: obama1.jpg

1065 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:20:01pm

re: #1063 TheMatrix31

LMFAO narcissist = racist.

I'll bet you don't like 13-digit deficit spending either. Racist.

1066 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:20:21pm

re: #1059 Cato the Elder

No. Strength.

Well, personal strength, sure! 8-) Personal strength can be political suicide, though.

Personally, I DO think there's a good argument to be made that he could have deferred the award and made it work politically. But I'm not bent out of shape either way. I don't think he deserved it, really, but I don't think it was a colossal error for him to refuse it.

1067 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:20:34pm

Moonbat, wingnut, commie, fascist, chickenhawk, hippie, chickenshit, peacenick...

Guess I watched to much George Carlin in my time.

1068 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:20:47pm

re: #1063 TheMatrix31

LMFAO narcissist = racist.

We can always count on you, Neo. :-)

1069 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:20:48pm

re: #1065 cliffster

Fuck man, I might as well register with some crazy racist groups to really show my outrage!!!

/unbelievable

1070 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:21:04pm

re: #1049 iceweasel

Updinged. And I bolded that bit because I think it's important-- just as the charges that Obama is 'arrogant' are likewise dressed up forms of calling him 'uppity', and the references to him as a 'man child' or the like are ways of calling him 'boy'.


And I'm sure there's racial connotations to my referring to him as a disengenuous used-car salesman, too.

This is almost as comical as the hissy-fit austin blue pitched when I suggested the President played Barry White music to set a romantic mood. Because OMG! He's a bi-racial president etc etc [he didn't seem to have a problem with my 'screw the pooch' allegory for some reason]

Should I approach you with a list of pre-approved adjectives the next time I date have anything critical to say of tEh best Prezident evAr?

1071 dwells38  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:21:55pm

re: #382 Ferris

It's true Ferris and I wonder if the Gipper were alive today if he would be in the creationist camp and I would have to part ways with him on that.

1072 Claire  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:22:03pm

re: #1063 TheMatrix31

Yeah, 'cus only white people can have that particular pathology. I wonder if the AMA has been informed about this?

1073 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:22:08pm

re: #1061 iceweasel

exactly. The only reason Obama is in the White House now is because starting around 2004, the Dems realised the base couldn't be Code Pink et al.

The GOP would have done well to learn from what the Dems went through for 8 years, rather than replicating their own errors (only more so).

And I'm glad! Code Pink is not credible. Gotta go for the middle. Dean wanted the Dems to go for the middle, and for all the Howard Dean has been slammed like a jobber in comments here, he got the job done.

1074 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:22:17pm

re: #1070 Fenway_Nation

I literally can't believe that fucking shit.

1075 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:23:32pm

re: #1070 Fenway_Nation


Should I approach you with a list of pre-approved adjectives the next time I date have anything critical to say of tEh best Prezident evAr?

Many people who call Obama a narcissist, or arrogant, or use similar adjectives are really calling him 'uppity'.

It really shouldn't be news to any reader of this blog that there is a great deal of latent racism bubbling up now-- look at some of the signs carried at tea parties, look at the emails and even ads featuring Obama as a witch doctor or monkey images.

1076 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:24:29pm

re: #1066 WindUpBird

Well, personal strength, sure! 8-) Personal strength can be political suicide, though.

Personally, I DO think there's a good argument to be made that he could have deferred the award and made it work politically. But I'm not bent out of shape either way. I don't think he deserved it, really, but I don't think it was a colossal error for him to refuse it.

Well, we disagree. Very well, then, we disagree.

How could declining a "You're Not George Bush" prize from five dipshit know-nothing ultralib hypocritical pseudo-green oil-tick Norwegians possibly work out to be political suicide?

1077 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:24:50pm

re: #1071 dwells38

It's true Ferris and I wonder if the Gipper were alive today if he would be in the creationist camp and I would have to part ways with him on that.

There's a difference between being at the same dinner party as the hardcore creationists, and waving snakes around with them as they dunk people underwater in the swamp to cleanse them of their impurites. ;-)

1078 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:25:17pm

re: #1075 iceweasel

That's some OFFENSIVE bullshit. Don't you DARE accuse me of racism because I call someone a narcissist.

1079 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:25:58pm

re: #1076 Cato the Elder

Well, we disagree. Very well, then, we disagree.

How could declining a "You're Not George Bush" prize from five dipshit know-nothing ultralib hypocritical pseudo-green oil-tick Norwegians possibly work out to be political suicide?

It probably would have had the reverse effect if he declined it.

1080 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:29pm

re: #1078 TheMatrix31

That's some OFFENSIVE bullshit. Don't you DARE accuse me of racism because I call someone a narcissist.

I wasn't even talking to you, but responding to a comment by Windup Bird.

You're the one who has decided to pretend this is about you, or that anyone has called you a racist.

1081 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:30pm

re: #1074 TheMatrix31

I literally can't believe that fucking shit.

And yet another profundity! That's [more than one] in 5,613 comments!

Your social worker must be so proud.

1082 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:34pm

There are some people who don't like Obama that are racists
Some people think Obama is arrogant
Calling Obama arrogant is racist.

Got it.

1083 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:54pm

re: #1076 Cato the Elder

Well, we disagree. Very well, then, we disagree.

How could declining a "You're Not George Bush" prize from five dipshit know-nothing ultralib hypocritical pseudo-green oil-tick Norwegians possibly work out to be political suicide?

hahah, point taken! 8-) I don't think it'd be political suicide, I personally believe that deferring it would have created slightly more problems that it would have solved. I don't think the needle would have moved much either way.

1084 palomino  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:26:54pm

re: #111 directorblue


I can't remember if it even mentions pro-choice/pro-life -- that's a state's right issue (10th Amendment). The chapter on "Faith and the Founding" explains the intertwined relationship between Judeo-Christian beliefs and the government.


Of course abortion isn't "mentioned" in the Constitution. It was written in the 1780s, long before abortion was a safe medical procedure. Furthermore, the Constitution doesn't really get into the weeds with specific laws. It's a blueprint, a SHORT blueprint.

Granted the Judeo-Christian foundation, then but there's also the Enlightenment. We're not a Christian nation, at least not in the way you'd like us to be. Hell, half the founding fathers were deists who didn't even regularly go to church.

1085 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:27:13pm

re: #1082 cliffster

There are some people who don't like Obama that are racists
Some people think Obama is arrogant
Calling Obama arrogant is racist.

Got it.

I'm staying out of it.

1086 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:27:24pm

re: #1079 Gus 802

It probably would have had the reverse effect if he declined it.

I'm sorry, I'm dense tonight. The reverse of what effect?

1087 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:28:17pm

re: #1086 Cato the Elder

I'm sorry, I'm dense tonight. The reverse of what effect?

The reverse of political suicide. I think he would have been quietly applauded if he had turned it down.

1088 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:28:28pm

re: #1082 cliffster

There are some people who don't like Obama that are racists
Some people think Obama is arrogant
---> INSERT MISSING PREMISE HERE
Those people are racist.

--->Some people who call Obama 'arrogant' use it as a dogwhistle for 'uppity'.

1089 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:28:31pm

re: #1083 WindUpBird

hahah, point taken! 8-) I don't think it'd be political suicide, I personally believe that deferring it would have created slightly more problems that it would have solved. I don't think the needle would have moved much either way.

I'm not concerned with the movement of the needle. I'm concerned with the integrity of the man.

1090 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:28:32pm

re: #1080 iceweasel

You're talking about the people who call him arrogant and narcissistic. I've done that---plenty of times.

I am NOT a racist, nor have I ever made ANY racist comment on here to give you any reason to think otherwise. I'm sorry, but I take total offense to that charge, as would others who have used the same words to describe him.

1091 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:28:52pm

re: #1087 Gus 802

The reverse of political suicide. I think he would have been quietly applauded if he had turned it down.

Quite concur.

1092 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:29:13pm

re: #1081 Cato the Elder

Wow...

1093 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:29:15pm

re: #1081 Cato the Elder

And yet another profundity! That's [more than one] in 5,613 comments!

Your social worker must be so proud.

DAAAMN. I felt that one here in Oregon!

1094 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:29:39pm

re: #1089 Cato the Elder

I'm not concerned with the movement of the needle. I'm concerned with the integrity of the man.

Upding for that. :)

1095 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:30:07pm

re: #1085 Gus 802

I'm staying out of it.

It's an attempt by the butthurt to manufacture a fight out of nothing. "Let's pretend that iceweasel said everyone who calls Obama arrogant is a racist!"

lol.

1096 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:30:08pm

re: #1090 TheMatrix31

Total offense. Is that like total war?

No one cares if you're a racist. That's between you and your pillow.

Everyone, though, can see you're a moron.

Carry on.

1097 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:30:56pm

re: #1088 iceweasel

--->Some people who call Obama 'arrogant' use it as a dogwhistle for 'uppity'.

I would agree more on that one. Calling a black man arrogant is typically code. I don't agree on narcissist before but so are most if not all politicians. My mom used to call me that all the time.

1098 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:31:02pm

re: #1078 TheMatrix31

That's some OFFENSIVE bullshit. Don't you DARE accuse me of racism because I call someone a narcissist.

Iceweasel didn't accuse you of racism. She did, however post the truth about the attitudes of the wingnut fraternity. The fact that you find that so offensive speaks volumes about your inability to deal with facts that don't match your prejudices.

1099 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:31:16pm

re: #1090 TheMatrix31

You're talking about

Your reading comprehension needs work.

It's pretty simple. I haven't called you a racist, and I don't plan to -- unless and until you say something racist.

1100 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:31:34pm

re: #1087 Gus 802

The reverse of political suicide. I think he would have been quietly applauded if he had turned it down.

This is totally true. But the part of my brain that loves a good yarn wonders if there's a lot more to that Obama Nobel Prize than meets the eye.

1101 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:31:43pm

re: #1075 iceweasel

Wow...what a lame cop-out. Because there's blatantly racist imagery and commentary regarding the president, all things critical are a more subdued form of racism? Or at least treated that way until proven otherwise?

So...when I utilize the phrase 'Same old tired song and dance from the President...' I guess that means I'm implying he's a minstrel or something.

Am I getting this right?

1102 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:32:37pm

re: #1097 Gus 802

I would agree more on that one. Calling a black man arrogant is typically code. I don't agree on narcissist before but so are most if not all politicians. My mom used to call me that all the time.

There's nothing inherently racist about calling Obama a narcissist. For some people it is functioning as a codeword-- a slightly more upmarket one than 'arrogant'.

1103 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:32:39pm

re: #1090 TheMatrix31

You're talking about the people who call him arrogant and narcissistic. I've done that---plenty of times.

I am NOT a racist, nor have I ever made ANY racist comment on here to give you any reason to think otherwise. I'm sorry, but I take total offense to that charge, as would others who have used the same words to describe him.

Again, you were not addressed. If you want to step into those peoples shoes, however, that's your choice.

1104 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:32:57pm

re: #1101 Fenway_Nation

Am I getting this right?

No.

1105 freetoken  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:33:06pm

re: #1075 iceweasel

Many people who call Obama a narcissist,...

Among others, notably Michelle Malkin. The reason the "narcissist"-calling is being associated with racism, over time, is because of the loudest voices casting such aspersions.

1106 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:33:57pm

Maybe people call Obama an arrogant narcissist because he's an arrogant narcissist.

1107 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:34:07pm

re: #1102 iceweasel

There's nothing inherently racist about calling Obama a narcissist. For some people it is functioning as a codeword-- a slightly more upmarket one than 'arrogant'.

THIS is what I was trying to say, cheers ^_^

1108 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:34:24pm

re: #1099 iceweasel

You said that words like arrogant and narcissist are "dogwhistles" for uppity, which is a code word that someone uses in a racist fashion.

I use words like arrogant, and narcissist when describing him. I'm not using them as "dogwhistles" for some sort of latent racism.

I'm taking your generality, and arguing it because I DON'T act in that fashion. I DON'T use those words in that fashion.

1109 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:34:46pm

re: #1105 freetoken

Among others, notably Michelle Malkin. The reason the "narcissist"-calling is being associated with racism, over time, is because of the loudest voices casting such aspersions.

It's beyond me why anyone wants to deny that this is happening, or would willingly identify with the people who are using the word in that way.

Malkin is one of the worst offenders; you're right.

1110 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:01pm

re: #1106 cliffster

Maybe people call Obama an arrogant narcissist because he's an arrogant narcissist.

Well, hello Captain Personal Attack! Which crimes will you be foiling this evening with your Boy Wonder, Matrix Von Reeves?

1111 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:09pm

If Obama is a narcissist, what is Palin?

Wait, I know. A slutty cheerleader for a losing team.

1112 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:24pm

re: #1096 Cato the Elder

Total offense. Is that like total war?

No one cares if you're a racist. That's between you and your pillow.

Everyone, though, can see you're a moron.

Carry on.

That is uncalled for Cato, please remain civil.

re: #1088 iceweasel

--->Some people who call Obama 'arrogant' use it as a dogwhistle for 'uppity'.

Agreed, and everyone please notice she said "some people" not everybody. No need to take offense.

1113 rhino2  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:24pm

re: #1037 Sharmuta

They do have limits. A term is 2 years in the House, and it's 6 years in the Senate.

That is the length of the terms yes, though I believe you know what I meant.

I don't think it's a fix-all for our government by any means, I just happen to think it would help improve the situation by forcing all senators/congress(wo)men back out into the world to deal with the laws they create at some point.

1114 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:47pm

re: #1106 cliffster

Maybe people call Obama an arrogant narcissist because he's an arrogant narcissist.

And maybe you should get a new costume. You're an insult to dogs.

1115 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:35:54pm

re: #1106 cliffster

What a novel idea. I guess my mind is too small to grasp such an idea, though.

/

1116 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:36:10pm

re: #1108 TheMatrix31

You said that

I think you'd be better off trying to respond to the points that have actually been made, rather than the ones you'd like to pretend people have made.

1117 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:36:18pm

Wow, the first arrogant and narcissistic president.

//

1118 palomino  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:37:12pm

re: #1106 cliffster

Maybe people call Obama an arrogant narcissist because he's an arrogant narcissist.

Absurd. Anyone who runs for president has a well developed ego. Clinton had a roguish gleam in his eyes. And W had his swagger. When was the last time we had a president who wasn't in love with himself? Nixon, I guess.

1119 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:37:25pm

re: #1115 TheMatrix31

What a novel idea. I guess my mind is too small to grasp such an idea, though.

/

Nuance, man.

1120 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:37:36pm

re: #1112 Bagua

She did not originally use the word "some".

re: #1049 iceweasel

Updinged. And I bolded that bit because I think it's important-- just as the charges that Obama is 'arrogant' are likewise dressed up forms of calling him 'uppity', and the references to him as a 'man child' or the like are ways of calling him 'boy'.

1121 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:37:48pm

re: #1108 TheMatrix31

You said that words like arrogant and narcissist are "dogwhistles" for uppity, which is a code word that someone uses in a racist fashion.

I use words like arrogant, and narcissist when describing him. I'm not using them as "dogwhistles" for some sort of latent racism.

I'm taking your generality, and arguing it because I DON'T act in that fashion. I DON'T use those words in that fashion.

Which is a fact. I suggest you direct your anger at the wingnuts who constantly use these terms in exactly the way iceweasel described.

1122 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:38:22pm

re: #1110 WindUpBird

Well, hello Captain Personal Attack! Which crimes will you be foiling this evening with your Boy Wonder, Matrix Von Reeves?

HA!

Oh, the butthurt, it's so strong tonight, so very very strong...

1123 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:38:56pm

re: #1108 TheMatrix31

You said that words like arrogant and narcissist are "dogwhistles" for uppity, which is a code word that someone uses in a racist fashion.

I use words like arrogant, and narcissist when describing him. I'm not using them as "dogwhistles" for some sort of latent racism.

I'm taking your generality, and arguing it because I DON'T act in that fashion. I DON'T use those words in that fashion.

You don't fashion your use of words in any way that a rational being could understand, either.

Don't let that deter you.

"Seriousness is the only refuge of the shallow."
--Oscar Wilde

1124 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:40:44pm

re: #1120 TheMatrix31

She later qualified her statement.


re: #1122 iceweasel

The video's are approved for the flouncers, not regulars.

cliffster and theMatrix31 do not deserve personal insults.

1125 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:41:00pm

So what's the deal. Obama's the president. Does that mean you plan on freaking out about him 24/7 for the next 3 years? That's no way to live.

1126 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:41:07pm

re: #1120 TheMatrix31

I'm quite sick of you constructing a straw-weasel in your head to rant at, and your continuing deliberate attempts to misread and misconstrue virtually everything I write. You entered this thread with a butthurt wail about me using an acronym you didn't understand, because it's was so very horrible for you to have to google it.

Try to get a grip.

1127 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:42:19pm

re: #1112 Bagua

Agreed, and everyone please notice she said "some people" not everybody. No need to take offense.

#1075 was "many".

1128 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:42:31pm

re: #1124 Bagua

She later qualified her statement.

re: #1122 iceweasel

The video's are approved for the flouncers, not regulars.

cliffster and theMatrix31 do not deserve personal insults.

Bollocks. The videos are 'approved' for all who are butthurt. Fortunately butthurt is not always a permanent condition.

And I'm much better at not using personal insults when people don't use them to me.

1129 SixDegrees  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:42:48pm

re: #1108 TheMatrix31

You said that words like arrogant and narcissist are "dogwhistles" for uppity, which is a code word that someone uses in a racist fashion.

I use words like arrogant, and narcissist when describing him. I'm not using them as "dogwhistles" for some sort of latent racism.

I'm taking your generality, and arguing it because I DON'T act in that fashion. I DON'T use those words in that fashion.

"Dogwhistle" went from mildly clever to overused catchphrase in a notably short period of time. It is now applied to anything and everything, and increasingly to things that are uncomfortable or difficult to refute because it allows the person employing the phrase to claim that what was said isn't what was meant; once that's accomplished, any meaning desired can be overlaid, without regard to the original intent.

It's become a lot like "fascist" in that regard, and has become yet another content-free insult in more instances than an actual, useful description.

1130 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:43:32pm

re: #1127 Sharmuta

#1075 was "many".

Oh good point. Yes, many.

For those who are unhappy that racists use the word 'narcissist' to describe Obama, direct your complaints to Michelle Malkin et al.

1131 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:44:15pm

re: #1124 Bagua

She later qualified her statement.

re: #1122 iceweasel

The video's are approved for the flouncers, not regulars.

cliffster and theMatrix31 do not deserve personal insults.

The videos don't need anyone's approval for use, just a butthurt-rich environment of the sort that Matrix seems to be unable to resist providing.

1132 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:44:16pm

re: #1111 Cato the Elder

If Obama is a narcissist, what is Palin?

Wait, I know. A slutty cheerleader for a losing team.

Hmm, calling Palin a slut - a knee-jerk name disparaging a female. I wonder, are there any knee-jerk names people call blacks? What would happen if one of those names were used against Obama here? So let me ask you, why would you bring that misogynistic garbage in here?

1133 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:44:59pm

re: #1125 Gus 802

So what's the deal. Obama's the president. Does that mean you plan on freaking out about him 24/7 for the next 3 years? That's no way to live.

Agreed. Much better if they freak out for for the next 7 years instead. /

1134 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:45:40pm

re: #1132 cliffster

Prick.

Take that to your drumming circle and whine about it.

1135 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:46:11pm

re: #1132 cliffster

LMFAO.

1136 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:46:42pm

re: #1131 Jimmah

The videos don't need anyone's approval for use, just a butthurt-rich environment of the sort that Matrix seems to be unable to resist providing.

Butthurt is not a moral judgment or a political category, no more than cancer.

Butthurt is a diagnosis.

1137 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:46:51pm

Hey Matrix. The first words out of your mouth when you came in here was this snarky piece:

Acronyms only work when other people know what the hell they mean without having to go look on another site to figure out the answer.

And that was because she used the acronym IYKWIMAITTYD. Guess what? It was a comment for me and I didn't even know exactly what it meant.

Is your plan to come in here and stir up shit every time Iceweasel is around?

1138 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:47:00pm

re: #1129 SixDegrees


It's become a lot like "fascist" in that regard, and has become yet another content-free insult in more instances than an actual, useful description.


Except that "dogwhistle" refers to a rhetorical tactic, and not a person.

It's a cliche, but unfortunately one that still has some currency.

1139 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:47:38pm

re: #1135 TheMatrix31

LMFAO.

I don't get the acronym, you élitist.

1140 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:48:23pm

re: #1137 Gus 802

Hey Matrix. The first words out of your mouth when you came in here was this snarky piece:

And that was because she used the acronym IYKWIMAITTYD. Guess what? It was a comment for me and I didn't even know exactly what it meant.

Is your plan to come in here and stir up shit every time Iceweasel is around?

My guess is "yes", because this has been going on for a few weeks.

1141 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:48:32pm

re: #1136 Cato the Elder

Butthurt is not a moral judgment or a political category, no more than cancer.

Butthurt is a diagnosis.

Absolutely. It's an ongoing personal heartbreak for some. Or is that many?

1142 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:49:10pm

re: #1140 iceweasel

My guess is "yes", because this has been going on for a few weeks.

I noticed.

1143 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:49:26pm

re: #1141 Jimmah

Absolutely. It's an ongoing personal heartbreak for some. Or is that many?

οἱ πολλοί

1144 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:49:30pm

re: #1137 Gus 802

I would have said that to anyone. There's no point in an acronym if it's that many letters long. Not a common one either. Isn't part of the point of an acronym to make sure that it's something common enough? Everyone knows that BTW is "by the way", ASAP is "as soon as possible", BRB is "be right back"...what is that mangled mess of letters?

1145 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:50:11pm

re: #1139 Cato the Elder

I don't get the acronym, you élitist.

LOL at drumming circle. heh.

1146 Sharmuta  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:50:14pm

I have to go. I have to write a letter to stormfront, because I learned racists also use the word "the". Good night, Lizards.

1147 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:50:56pm

re: #1142 Gus 802

I noticed.

Thank you.

1148 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:51:16pm

re: #1139 Cato the Elder

Pretty funny, bro.

1149 Bagua  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:52:15pm

re: #1127 Sharmuta

#1075 was "many".

Yes #1075 was "many" and later "some" neither of which mean everybody.


re: #1128 iceweasel

I actually meant others about the insults. Sorry, I should have made that clearer.

re: #1131 Jimmah

Flounce-O-Meter approval was intended for flouncers, not regulars only Bagua may interpret the Flounce-O-Meter™ for tricksy science reasons.


Now everybody please take a moment to pause, and listen to this musical interlude from the friendly, neighborhood Bagua.

World Peace

1150 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:54:12pm

re: #1132 cliffster

Hmm, calling Palin a slut - a knee-jerk name disparaging a female. I wonder, are there any knee-jerk names people call blacks? What would happen if one of those names were used against Obama here? So let me ask you, why would you bring that misogynistic garbage in here?

Because calling women names - more especially, women who willingly enter the arena of public life - is not misogynistic, unless you think women are delicate pre-Raphaelite blossoms that need doors opened for them and parasols to protect them from freckles and butthurt.

Which apparently you do, which makes you the misogynist.

1151 Fenway_Nation  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:55:28pm

re: #1140 iceweasel

My guess is "yes", because this has been going on for a few weeks.


How uppity narccicistic of you,

1152 cliffster  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:55:42pm

re: #1150 Cato the Elder

So apply that same concept to calling a black man like Obama a name. He's in the public arena, should we just call him whatever? Are you telling me that you are actually not seeing the insane hypocrisy in what you're saying??

1153 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:56:05pm

re: #1144 TheMatrix31

I would have said that to anyone. There's no point in an acronym if it's that many letters long. Not a common one either. Isn't part of the point of an acronym to make sure that it's something common enough? Everyone knows that BTW is "by the way", ASAP is "as soon as possible", BRB is "be right back"...what is that mangled mess of letters?

Something you couldn't be troubled to google before you pissed your pants about it?

1154 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:56:50pm

re: #1151 Fenway_Nation

How uppity narccicistic of you,

Is that a new acronym?
/probably best if you don't tell me what it stands for.

1155 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:57:18pm

re: #1152 cliffster

Yes.

1156 TheMatrix31  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:57:52pm

re: #1154 iceweasel

You've told us what you think it means.

1157 Cato the Elder  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:58:15pm

re: #1146 Sharmuta

I have to go. I have to write a letter to stormfront, because I learned racists also use the word "the". Good night, Lizards.

I shall add that to my commonplace book under "Profundities from Unexpected Quarters".

1158 The Left  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:58:43pm

re: #1156 TheMatrix31

You've told us what you think it means.

I think it means someone needs spellcheck.

1159 Aye Pod  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:59:16pm

re: #1146 Sharmuta

I have to go. I have to write a letter to stormfront, because I learned racists also use the word "the". Good night, Lizards.

Tell that to Charles then next time he makes a similar point about wingnut use of language and what it typically means.

1160 Gus  Mon, Nov 30, 2009 11:59:51pm

re: #1144 TheMatrix31

I would have said that to anyone. There's no point in an acronym if it's that many letters long. Not a common one either. Isn't part of the point of an acronym to make sure that it's something common enough? Everyone knows that BTW is "by the way", ASAP is "as soon as possible", BRB is "be right back"...what is that mangled mess of letters?

So what's the big deal?

You think you're going to come in here and expect everyone to say what you want to hear? Not going to happen. Never did happen for me. Get over it.

This isn't a support group. You're not going to like everything you read in here. Iceweasel has paid her dues and even I sparred with her at first but have grown more appreciative of her presence. In fact when she's not here it start to sound like an echo chamber in many respects.

1161 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:00:54am

re: #1160 Gus 802

And Jimmah, and Cato, and so on.

1162 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:01:27am

re: #1161 Gus 802

And Jimmah, and Cato, and so on.

Hey!

1163 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:01:45am

re: #1162 Bagua

Hey!

And Bagua last night who I wanted to throw a medicine ball on his head.

//

1164 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:01:56am

re: #1140 iceweasel

My guess is "yes", because this has been going on for a few weeks.

Dammit, you can't have Matrix all to yourself! He attacks me too! :D

1165 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:02:01am

re: #1160 Gus 802

So what's the big deal?

You think you're going to come in here and expect everyone to say what you want to hear? Not going to happen. Never did happen for me. Get over it.

This isn't a support group. You're not going to like everything you read in here. Iceweasel has paid her dues and even I sparred with her at first but have grown more appreciative of her presence. In fact when she's not here it start to sound like an echo chamber in many respects.

Quoted for truth, Gus. Well said.

1166 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:02:21am

re: #1163 Gus 802

And Bagua last night who I wanted to throw a medicine ball on his head.

//

{Feel better now}

1167 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:02:22am

re: #1161 Gus 802

And Jimmah, and Cato, and so on.

Don't leave yourself off that list.
I like when you're here because you always find the best links and dig up lots of background info.

1168 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:02:29am

re: #1160 Gus 802

It didn't need to be a big deal. I said what I said as a response, who cares? I'm entitled to comment just as much as she is. It's just an uncommon acronym used as if it was a common one, and I didn't get why it was used.

I never claimed to expect to like everything I read here, either. I don't care what "dues" she's paid. I didn't know this was a merit-based system.

1169 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:03:13am

re: #1163 Gus 802

And Bagua last night who I wanted to throw a medicine ball on his head.

//

Have to love our friendly neighbourhood Bagua.

1170 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:04:15am

re: #1168 TheMatrix31

It didn't need to be a big deal.

That's why you made it one. Right?

1171 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:04:49am

re: #1168 TheMatrix31

It didn't need to be a big deal. I said what I said as a response, who cares? I'm entitled to comment just as much as she is. It's just an uncommon acronym used as if it was a common one, and I didn't get why it was used.

I never claimed to expect to like everything I read here, either. I don't care what "dues" she's paid. I didn't know this was a merit-based system.

Of course it's merit based. It always was. It's the difference between being a noob or a Lizard. Do you think some Hatchling comes in here and gets to mouth off whatever he wants? Have you ever seen that last for long?

1172 dwells38  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:05:16am

re: #898 Vercimber

Someone mentioned people like Michael Moore, and Cindy Sheehan, and Jimmy Carter before in a negative way. Someone may not agree with their stances, or their liberal views, but you cannot put Michael Moore or Cindy Sheehan or the vast majority of the "left" in the same category as what we see from the right now.

Sure you can Vercimber (and Hi). Jimmy Carter's so anti-Israel and Pale-friendly he flirts with antisemitism and both Sheehan and Moore have routinely been purveyors of rank distortions, hyperbole, conspiracy theories and seemingly cheerleaders for everything anti-America. Sheehan deserves some sympathy having lost her son and being an amateur after all.

How are these people different from say, Glen Beck (whacko conspircy purveyor) and Joe the Plumber (anti-gay bigot) ? They're two sides of the same coin IMO. Just my thought. Don't want to scare you off of here.

Charles does do a bang up job, we can agree on that.

1173 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:06:23am

re: #1168 TheMatrix31

And here was I thinking that merit based systems were dear to the hearts of 'conservatives'.

And - FYI - posting the way you do, and downdinging every single response to you no matter how reasonable, is a poor way of conveying your nonchalance.

1174 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:07:52am

re: #1169 iceweasel

Have to love our friendly neighbourhood Bagua.


Love me, love me, girl love me, I want you to love me… just love me.
When the music start play you got to rub-a-dub me.
-Eek-A-Mouse


1175 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:08:41am

re: #1173 Jimmah

You use your downdings and updings quite liberally yourself.

re: #1171 Gus 802

It IS possible for someone with 100 posts to make posts that are more of quality than someone else. We have the upding/downding and replies to voice our displeasure or discontent with anything posted.

Whatever

1176 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:10:13am

re: #1174 Bagua

Love me, love me, girl love me, I want you to love me… just love me.
When the music start play you got to rub-a-dub me.
-Eek-A-Mouse

[Video]

1177 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:10:36am
1178 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:11:07am

Now I lay me down to sleep.
I pray the Lord this blog to keep.

And if, whilst I slumber, someone could explain to me, on behalf of Cliffster, why calling a female politician a dumb slut makes one a misogynist, whilst calling a male one a muthafucka is just common parlance, I'd be grateful.

Boa noite!

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
--Oscar Wilde

1179 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:11:29am

re: #1175 TheMatrix31

You use your downdings and updings quite liberally yourself.

re: #1171 Gus 802

It IS possible for someone with 100 posts to make posts that are more of quality than someone else. We have the upding/downding and replies to voice our displeasure or discontent with anything posted.

Whatever

Whatever? OK, I guess you really don't care.

1180 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:12:44am

re: #1177 carnaby

Be quiet carnaby, can't you see we are busy?

1181 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:12:46am

re: #1173 Jimmah

You use your downdings and updings quite liberally yourself.

re: #1171 Gus 802

It IS possible for someone with 100 posts to make posts that are more of quality than someone else. We have the upding/downding and replies to voice our displeasure or discontent with anything posted.

Whatever

1182 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:13:09am

I'm seeing double.

1183 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:13:17am

re: #1181 TheMatrix31

Whoops, double post. FF crashed. Didn't think it had posted it already.

1184 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:14:48am

Over 5400 tweets. Pretty amazing.

1185 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:15:24am

re: #1175 TheMatrix31

You use your downdings and updings quite liberally yourself.

re: #1171 Gus 802

It IS possible for someone with 100 posts to make posts that are more of quality than someone else. We have the upding/downding and replies to voice our displeasure or discontent with anything posted.

Whatever

Yes I do ding liberally, but not in the knee jerk and spiteful way you do Matrix. You can continue like this if you want of course, but it may get tiresome having to go through this bollocks time after time, no?

By all means quit the childish tactics and let's see these awesome posts that are 'more of quality than someone else'!

1186 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:15:35am

BTW...my acronym-related response was in #927.

If Cato hadn't been a prick about it and insulted my intelligence yet again in #935...it would have been over and done with. But no, he had to turn it into something personal.

I didn't make it a big deal, but when the response is personal insult, I'm not going to be happy about it.

1187 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:15:43am

re: #1178 Cato the Elder

Now I lay me down to sleep.
I pray the Lord this blog to keep.

And if, whilst I slumber, someone could explain to me, on behalf of Cliffster, why calling a female politician a dumb slut makes one a misogynist, whilst calling a male one a muthafucka is just common parlance, I'd be grateful.

Boa noite!

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
--Oscar Wilde

Nobody said that, you just pulled that out of your ass. Proving that you create your own reality.

1188 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:16:56am

re: #1178 Cato the Elder

Boa noite!

"Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
--Oscar Wilde

Vale, Cato!

1189 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:17:06am

re: #1185 Jimmah

Everyone started out with zero, did they not?

1190 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:17:40am
1191 abolitionist  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:18:06am

re: #346 Sharmuta

Religious factions will go on imposing their will on others unless the decent people connected to them recognize that religion has no place in public policy. They must learn to make their views known without trying to make their views the only alternatives.

-Barry Goldwater

I believe that goes for both sides of the Dar ul Islam - Dar ul Harb divide.

1192 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:18:07am

Here they come!

1193 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:18:11am

re: #1185 Jimmah

See, now, why would you downding my #1186? That wasn't a knee-jerk reaction? Come on.

1194 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:18:43am

re: #1186 TheMatrix31

BTW...my acronym-related response was in #927.

If Cato hadn't been a prick about it and insulted my intelligence yet again in #935...it would have been over and done with. But no, he had to turn it into something personal.

I didn't make it a big deal, but when the response is personal insult, I'm not going to be happy about it.

It's not all about you.

1195 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:18:58am

re: #1186 TheMatrix31

You are right, there was no need to insult you in that way.

Now...

1196 carnaby  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:19:56am

re: #1180 Bagua

Be quiet carnaby, can't you see we are busy?

No need to be a jerk. Seriously though, I'm just curious. Leaving "the right," whatever that is, doesn't necessarily mean embracing the left. Now I know what Charles stands against. But I don't see that the left has much to offer except that they are not the right.

I had a difficult time with this in the last election. The right sucked and I avoided them, but I didn't vote for the left either. There's simply no where left to go.

1197 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:20:28am

re: #1189 TheMatrix31

Everyone started out with zero, did they not?

Huh?

1198 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:20:41am

re: #1186 TheMatrix31

BTW...my acronym-related response was in #927.

If Cato hadn't been a prick about it and insulted my intelligence yet again in #935...it would have been over and done with. But no, he had to turn it into something personal.

I didn't make it a big deal, but when the response is personal insult, I'm not going to be happy about it.

No one on this blog cares about your (or my) personal happiness, you whiny little choad.

1199 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:20:42am

re: #1194 Gus 802

I'm sorry. Insulting my intelligence DOES make that response about me.

1200 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:20:52am

re: #1196 carnaby

There's simply no where left to go.

away?

1201 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:21:57am

re: #1199 TheMatrix31

I'm sorry. Insulting my intelligence DOES make that response about me.

You threw the first stone. Sorry.

1202 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:22:01am

re: #1190 whackmaster

Oh by the way no one gives a mouse turd about where you come from.

1203 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:22:01am

re: #1190 whackmaster

It's pretty hard to believe you've been any kind of regular reader, given that comment.

1204 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:22:13am

re: #1199 TheMatrix31

I'm sorry. Insulting my intelligence DOES make that response about me.

Fuck him, man, he just likes to name-call and egg people on.

1205 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:22:31am

re: #1197 Jimmah

You said "let's see more of those awesome posts", as if they don't exist. However, all the posters who have now become "regulars", had to start out with zero posts at some point, right? I don't think that's a non-sequitor, but if you say it is--I guess it is.

re: #1198 Cato the Elder

Dude.

1206 carnaby  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:22:42am

re: #1200 cliffster

away?

Wow, you guys are the biggest bunch of jerks around. What the hell is your problem?

1207 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:22:48am

re: #1190 whackmaster

You really thing anyone is going to read that rambling screed you just posted?

1208 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:24:46am

re: #1204 cliffster

Fuck him, man, he just likes to name-call and egg people on.

Big deal. I've wrestled with Cato before. We don't always agree but I still like him. Even before when I almost blew a head gasket about scientists, priests, and lobotomies.

1209 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:25:20am

re: #1201 Gus 802

I didn't insult her intelligence or personally in another way in my comment.

1210 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:25:45am

re: #1193 TheMatrix31

See, now, why would you downding my #1186? That wasn't a knee-jerk reaction? Come on.

Nope - your post was just a whiny response to a mild but well deserved rebuke by Cato. Hence the downding.

1211 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:26:03am

re: #1190 whackmaster

First I downdinged you. Then I realized what a brilliant parody of psychopathic word-salad you just produced. Keep it coming!

1212 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:26:31am

re: #1204 cliffster

Fuck him, man, he just likes to name-call and egg people on.

You do realise you're talking to someone who has made no posts in this thread that weren't name-calling, whinging, or deliberately trying to misread other people's posts, right? I don't think there's a single ontopic post by him in this thread-- they're all about attempting to pick a fight or some other manifestation of butthurt.

And he's still at it now, in this thread and even on the one above.

1213 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:26:45am

re: #1204 cliffster

Clearly.

1214 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:27:28am

re: #1212 iceweasel

Show me where I called anyone a name or insulted anyone personally otherwise. Show me please.

1215 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:27:42am

re: #1190 whackmaster

Get help.

1216 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:28:22am

re: #1214 TheMatrix31

Show me where I called anyone a name or insulted anyone personally otherwise. Show me please.

No, because it isn't all about you. Your attempts to make it about you are tiresome.

1217 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:28:23am

re: #1209 TheMatrix31

I didn't insult her intelligence or personally in another way in my comment.

Jeez! For someone who is as handy with the insults as yourself, you sure are whiny.

1218 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:30:13am

On another note, we did make it over a thousand comments in on this thread before the whinging broke out. I doubt it's chance that it coincided with the overnight thread going up and Charles (presumably) retiring for the evening.

1219 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:30:29am

re: #1216 iceweasel

I don't think it's fair to throw around baseless allegations of my insults towards others in this thread, then refuse to give examples of such behavior when asked to.

And you're right, it's not all about me. If it was, I guess you could call me arrogant or narcissistic, right? Quick, let me go get a mirror.

1220 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:31:18am

re: #1209 TheMatrix31

I didn't insult her intelligence or personally in another way in my comment.

Maybe not. But you sure made it a point to get on her case once again. For the umpteenth time. That was your first comment. A complaint. No hellos or greetings to anyone. You just came in here and started complaining like Sarah Palin.

1221 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:31:32am
1222 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:32:12am

re: #1220 Gus 802

Next time, I'll be sure to give a superficial hello to everybody.

1223 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:32:45am

re: #1219 TheMatrix31

I suggest, once again, that you quit reading posts by people who you can't stand, and simply avoid interacting with them. It's not the first time I've suggested this to you with regard to myself, and sadly I doubt it will be the last.

1224 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:33:12am

re: #1208 Gus 802

Big deal. I've wrestled with Cato before. We don't always agree but I still like him. Even before when I almost blew a head gasket about scientists, priests, and lobotomies.

Better you should blow a head gasket over some nonsensical comment of mine than to fall into the clutches of the scientist-priests with their consensus-sanctioned brain-maiming operations. Or whatever the latest ephemeral-empirical PC voodoo is.

Doktor Mengele had many cousins, and some of them live among us now.

Care to wrestle about it?

1225 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:33:44am

re: #1222 TheMatrix31

Next time, I'll be sure to give a superficial hello to everybody.

OK Just keep down dinging and avoid the issues.

I'm surprised you're not updinging Whackmaster and Carnaby.

1226 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:34:51am

re: #1224 Cato the Elder

Better you should blow a head gasket over some nonsensical comment of mine than to fall into the clutches of the scientist-priests with their consensus-sanctioned brain-maiming operations. Or whatever the latest ephemeral-empirical PC voodoo is.

Doktor Mengele had many cousins, and some of them live among us now.

Care to wrestle about it?

Wrestle now? No way. I actually backed off when you mentioned Chestertonian.

1227 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:35:28am

re: #1220 Gus 802

Maybe not. But you sure made it a point to get on her case once again. For the umpteenth time. That was your first comment. A complaint. No hellos or greetings to anyone. You just came in here and started complaining like Sarah Palin.

I'll tell you exactly what it is-- butthurt.

Butthurt over the subject of this post, most likely, and the people who are too fucking chickenshit to do anything else will take out their resentment by beating on me and other posters they identify as 'liberal'.

1228 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:35:48am

re: #1225 Gus 802

I've pretty much addressed the points I've needed to address, unless there are some which I have missed? In that case, tell me and I'll respond.

As for your second point...seriously? Is that what you're doing now? Just lumping me in with them? How nice.

1229 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:36:00am
1230 walahi  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:36:45am

Just say this thread (waking up here in London). I am reading through but I just wanted to participate in what looks to be a lively discussion on conservatism, the current state of the US, and perhaps the world.

The 'Right' in the US (or the Conservatives in the UK for that matter) is not a conservative movement by any stretch. Political Conservatism is based on several important, basic principles:

1) The free will of the individual is paramount. Government may only impose limits on that free will where it is absolutely necessary. Normally this means the harm prinicple (your free will stops when it injures or hurts someone else)

2) Because we have free will, we have to live with the consequences of our choices. Government should not nanny us and impose rules and regulations telling us how to live the minutia of our lives

3) Your property is your own. It does not belong to Government, nor can government take it from you unless in the most extraordinary of circumstance.

4) Governments role is to provide the broad boundries in which to exercise this free will (e.g promulgating laws, operating the justice system and safeguarding the interests of her citizens in international law).

This list is perhaps over-simplified, but in no way does any sort of bigotry, anti-intellectualism, or embracing any form of religious world view fit into Political Conservatism.

In fact, what I see from the news in the US is that the 'Right' believes in modelling society to its own views. It sees what they deem as a fair and balanced society, so long as everyone conforms to the standard. Well, that's not conservatism, that's socialism. Socialism is the belief that the individual's rights should be curtailed for the greatest good for the greatest many. This leads to a fair and just society. In a bizarre, yet predictably ironic manner, what the Right moans about is merely the reflection in the mirror, they are just upset its not 'their' vision.

This form of social conservatism blended with a backlash against the Obama presidential campaign: Opposition for opposition's sake. Instead of innovating health care and participating meaningfully in the debate, the Right dug its heals into a shouting match (this does not absolve the Democrats, or how they act, just focusing on the Right for this post). The focus in all issues has been to complain about the government but offer no solutions. At least not meaningful ones.

Conservatism may be a ethos that belongs to a by-gone era when the political realities where far simpler and the administrative stretch of government was not as extensive and instrusive into the previously sacrosanct principle of individual freedom. That term 'individual freedom' has attached to it a deep meaning to America. Unfortunately, all sorts of anti-democratic, factionalist and mob-mentality agenda items are now placed under its banner, thus reducing one of the most cherished and prized elements of Western democracy into a sleazy, cheap political slogan.

There is no simple answer with how to proceed. I feel that many in the Western world at large are feeling pinched between intrusive government features and reactionary, anti-intellectual bigotry which has poorly appropriated political/fiscal conservative concepts for its own end (which is intrusive government policy on their own terms). For me, neither represents my views which leaves me with little political voice. I suspect that many here feel the same.

1231 Cato the Elder  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:37:21am

re: #1219 TheMatrix31

Quick, let me go get a mirror.

[shuffle, shuffle]

[LOUD SCREAM]

[sound of breaking glass]

[whimpering]

"For the love of God, Iceweasel!"

[curtain]

1232 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:38:21am

re: #1227 iceweasel

So because I didn't comment on the main topic, that must mean I'm butthurt about it.

Couldn't be that I comment on things that I feel compelled to comment on within the thread. Couldn't be that I got on the thread late and didn't feel compelled to comment on anything regarding the main topic since all the ink had been spilled already.

Nope, couldn't be that.

1233 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:40:10am

re: #1198 Cato the Elder

No one on this blog cares about your (or my) personal happiness, you whiny little choad.

I care about your happiness, and theMatrix31, re: #1221 Whackmaster

Screed? That's a big word Bagua? Mouse turd or Rat's ass? Cato? Either way doesn't matter too me. Glad you chimed in because you proved my point. I used to respect you and now you have just become another insulter and shouter downer of dissenting opinions. Make sure you keep walking that tightrope

Yes Screed: a ranting piece of writing and a long un-formatted one at that.

You jumped into the middle of a little spat with a rambling manifesto with a big block of text, over 30 lines in one paragraph. No one is going to wade through all of that to work out your complaints.

Join the conversation in a readable way and you won't get a critic from me.

1234 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:40:42am

re: #1232 TheMatrix31

So because I didn't comment on the main topic, that must mean I'm butthurt about it.

Couldn't be that I comment on things that I feel compelled to comment on within the thread.

The subjects you feel compelled to comment about have very little to do with anything about politics or anything objective, and more about personal issues and resentments. That's what people are remarking on.
And yeah, it looks like butthurt. As others have also noticed, it's been going on for awhile.

1235 tracon  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:40:59am

Oh boy I'm late to this one. I agree completely, but where to now? The left does some of this crazy appeal to emotion stuff to just a different direction. We just need more party's that's what I see over and over. Get Lindsey Graham, Joe Lieberman and the old John McCain (about 2000 he was genius) and have him form a moderate constituency, you might not like them but it helps separate the current and long standing trench warfare that isn't doing any of us much good.
A calmer and more thoughtful, small c conservative/moderate could take everything with the right people behind them.

1236 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:41:02am

re: #1221 Whackmaster

If you could handle dissenting opinion, you'd be happy to stick around and participate instead of waiting till Charles is gone before making posts that you know will result in your being banned.

1237 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:41:29am

re: #1227 iceweasel

I'll tell you exactly what it is-- butthurt.

Butthurt over the subject of this post, most likely, and the people who are too fucking chickenshit to do anything else will take out their resentment by beating on me and other posters they identify as 'liberal'.

Truth be told? Yes. You want to know a little secret? When they're pissed off at Charles they take it out on us or those of us that are similar in though with Charles. I noticed this in my first two weeks here.

1238 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:41:35am

re: #1234 iceweasel

Thanks for setting me straight, then. Appreciate it a lot.

1239 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:42:02am

re: #1237 Gus 802

Truth be told? Yes. You want to know a little secret? When they're pissed off at Charles they take it out on us or those of us that are similar in though thought with Charles. I noticed this in my first two weeks here.

PIMF

1240 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:42:26am

re: #1231 Cato the Elder

[shuffle, shuffle]

[LOUD SCREAM]

[sound of breaking glass]

[whimpering]

"For the love of God, Iceweasel!"

[curtain]

Cato, I'd no idea you were a dramatist!
Could we work a cask of amontillado in there somewhere?

1241 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:44:25am
1242 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:46:26am

re: #1237 Gus 802

Truth be told? Yes. You want to know a little secret? When they're pissed off at Charles they take it out on us or those of us that are similar in thought with Charles. I noticed this in my first two weeks here.

BINGO.
I expect it to get kind of ugly in the next week, I think.
Especially if registration is opened.
There are people here who aren't happy about this post at all but are hiding it somewhat, and they'll take it out on the rest of us-- and on attempting to drive off or otherwise create an extremely hostile environment for new posters, particularly ones perceived to be liberal.

Weird kind of psychological displacement activity--but also the reaction of those who want LGF to be a little sandbox for them and only a few pals to play in.

1243 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:46:31am

re: #1232 TheMatrix31

So because I didn't comment on the main topic, that must mean I'm butthurt about it.

Couldn't be that I comment on things that I feel compelled to comment on within the thread. Couldn't be that I got on the thread late and didn't feel compelled to comment on anything regarding the main topic since all the ink had been spilled already.

Nope, couldn't be that.

Sure, you didn't feel compelled to say anything about this important post by Charles; what moved you to post was the burning need to complain about acronyms you don't understand, and then how unfair it was of people to expect you to know how to use google. Right...

1244 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:47:23am

Heh, the thread that would not die...

2:46am 47 registered users.

1245 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:49:14am

re: #1243 Jimmah

What do you want me to say? I agree with the post in theory. I don't like the extreme tone that elements of the party have taken. It's not good, and its obviously not what I believe the party should BE.

I'm glad to learn of your genuine interest in my position though.

I think you should stop assuming how I feel about certain issues because of the combative tone we've exchanged over the last few weeks.

1246 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:49:44am
1247 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:50:16am

re: #1245 TheMatrix31

BTW, if you also want me to outline for you what MY vision of a conservative party should be, I will. Just so you guys can stop with your insinuations and assumptions.

1248 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:51:03am

re: #1244 Bagua

Heh, the thread that would not die...

2:46am 47 registered users.

Heh. Just wait-- I think this post will be linked all over the place tomorrow/today. I expect it to climb memeorandum.

1249 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:52:50am

re: #1247 TheMatrix31

BTW, if you also want me to outline for you what MY vision of a conservative party should be, I will. Just so you guys can stop with your insinuations and assumptions.

Why don't you do it just so you can articulate your thoughts and get feedback from interested people?

We might even agree with you, or have useful things to say.

1250 walahi  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:53:49am

re: #1241 Whackmaster

yes costs in litigation are paid for, generally, by the side that loses in court here in the UK.

Those suggestions could be a first step, I wouldn't know though.

As for how to 'clean up' politics, I am afraid I don't have the answer. Increasingly issues are about sloganeering and placards rather than digging deep into the intellectual heart of the issue. It is what has given birth to the current state of opposition politics, particularly in the US. I see little difference to when the Democrats were in opposition: conspiracy theories, 'derangement syndrome', a noted deluge in blog venting, mass gathering with inappropriate signs, etc. Unless and until an opposition can put forth criticism without devolving into this circus, political progress will be slow.

On the other hand, it makes for interesting television and thus the 'success' of media personalities like Glenn Beck and Limbaugh.

1251 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:55:09am

re: #1242 iceweasel

BINGO.
I expect it to get kind of ugly in the next week, I think.
Especially if registration is opened.
There are people here who aren't happy about this post at all but are hiding it somewhat, and they'll take it out on the rest of us-- and on attempting to drive off or otherwise create an extremely hostile environment for new posters, particularly ones perceived to be liberal.

Weird kind of psychological displacement activity--but also the reaction of those who want LGF to be a little sandbox for them and only a few pals to play in.

Now, one of the things we're dealing with is nostalgia. A return of the old ways when human rights were seen as an insult and the mere thought of using the word homophobic was also seen as a buzz cut against the grain of accepted pseudo right wing thought. The impetus thus will be one of revanchism to bring it back to a place where it once was. Where John Kerry, Earth First, and The Muslims were all to blame for the ills of this world.

What we will see is a lot of what I call pre-flounce rhetoric. For some it has been going on for several months. Now, it will accelerate. Especially given the recent temperament towards the acceptance of AGW and the complete non-acceptance of the fascist movements in Europe of which many of the predominant right-wing bloggers are aligned with. For them, it is a conflict of interests and personal ideologies. In the end, I think their time here is limited.

They're not happy here and it shows. As for the more extreme personalities. Well, they come and go. And we're seeing that example here in real time.

1252 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:58:51am

re: #1245 TheMatrix31

What do you want me to say? I agree with the post in theory. I don't like the extreme tone that elements of the party have taken. It's not good, and its obviously not what I believe the party should BE.

I'm glad to learn of your genuine interest in my position though.

I think you should stop assuming how I feel about certain issues because of the combative tone we've exchanged over the last few weeks.

So far you have come across as someone who is basically unhappy with this website and who is only here to stir shit with people you perceive to be liberal. My advice to you is to stick to posting what you think on the issues, debate honestly and quit the personal crap and the spiteful downdinging.

1253 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:59:37am

re: #1249 iceweasel

I'll do it for both reasons then.

1. Cut taxes and stop spending. Give people an incentive to be successful. Don't punish the wealthy with taxes and regulations to pay for government excess.

2. Along with that, let nature take its course. Don't "bail out" industries. It sets a very bad precedent. Rewarding failure is not a good way to build incentive to be the best you can be.

3. TOUGH on national security. Don't dance around sensitive topics. Proceed cautiously, but be strong. Do not allow weaknesses. You achieve strength at home by being strong abroad.

4. Kill political correctness. You know what? Sometimes things have to be done or said. Case in point Malik Hasan. I'm sorry, but if we went after him instead of tip-toeing, maybe Fort Hood would not happen. This refers to all types of PC, not just profiling-type stuff.

5. Tough on immigration. Securing borders is an integral part of maintaining a secure country. Do not bend over backwards to encourage illegal entrance into the US. DO bend over backwards to make sure that those who come in, come in legally.

6. Social issues are not part of federal government. Let states take care of it. Personally, I couldn't give a shit less about abortion or gay marriage. Sure, I don't like it, but I'm not going to do anything to "stop" it. That DOESN'T mean that it should free-for-all.

7. Science is good. Research is good. Development creates jobs. Jobs create wealth. Wealth creates prosperity.

...what else?

1254 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:01:23am
1255 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:08:10am

re: #1251 Gus 802

Now, one of the things we're dealing with is nostalgia. A return of the old ways when human rights were seen as an insult and the mere thought of using the word homophobic was also seen as a buzz cut against the grain of accepted pseudo right wing thought. The impetus thus will be one of revanchism to bring it back to a place where it once was. Where John Kerry, Earth First, and The Muslims were all to blame for the ills of this world.

What we will see is a lot of what I call pre-flounce rhetoric. For some it has been going on for several months. Now, it will accelerate. Especially given the recent temperament towards the acceptance of AGW and the complete non-acceptance of the fascist movements in Europe of which many of the predominant right-wing bloggers are aligned with. For them, it is a conflict of interests and personal ideologies. In the end, I think their time here is limited.

They're not happy here and it shows. As for the more extreme personalities. Well, they come and go. And we're seeing that example here in real time.

Favourited.
Very interesting...I suspect you and I have noticed many of the same things and drawn many of the same conclusions, down to certain buzzwords and all. Love the term pre-flounce rhetoric! -- There does seem to be a certain mindset and rhetoric that goes along with the flounce. Interesting how it is obvious to some but not to others.
Often it manifests as increasing hostility to posters perceived to be standins for Charles on some issue. Eventually they show up at the Village of the Banned spewing vile things about Charles (and finally 'liberated' to start spouting their true feelings, invariably extremist shit of one form or another) and engaging in other lovely behaviour like throwing the "c" word around.
And then several 'left behind' will say, "Oh, why did beloved Dipshit get banned?"--when various others could tell that beloved Dipshit really was a terrible person all along, as subsequent posting behaviour bears out.

The times they are a-changin.

1256 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:09:34am

re: #1253 TheMatrix31

Upding for posting something with substantive content.

1257 Aye Pod  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:10:25am

re: #1256 iceweasel

Upding for posting something with substantive content.

Seconded.

1258 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:12:32am

re: #1256 iceweasel

The problem was that some thought I literally wasn't capable of creating something with substantive content. Shame that I had to go out and PROVE that, even though I've made some substantive/inquisitive posts over the years.

Whatever, though.

1259 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:13:14am

hey, this post is already top story on memeorandum!

[Link: www.memeorandum.com...]

1260 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:17:19am

re: #1254 Whackmaster

Yeah...we should follow Rwanda, Venezuela and Algeria's shining example of clamping down on opposition media, ethnic cleansing and death squads over a boisterous and robust democratic process...

//

1261 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:19:44am

re: #1260 Fenway_Nation

And to think, it was earlier suggested that I should be UPdinging posts from him and the other guy.

1262 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:21:21am

re: #1258 TheMatrix31

The problem was that some thought I literally wasn't capable of creating something with substantive content.

A good way to disprove that would be to continue to post on such issues, don't you think? And avoid personal issues.

1263 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:23:56am

re: #1255 iceweasel

Favourited.
Very interesting...I suspect you and I have noticed many of the same things and drawn many of the same conclusions, down to certain buzzwords and all. Love the term pre-flounce rhetoric! -- There does seem to be a certain mindset and rhetoric that goes along with the flounce. Interesting how it is obvious to some but not to others.
Often it manifests as increasing hostility to posters perceived to be standins for Charles on some issue. Eventually they show up at the Village of the Banned spewing vile things about Charles (and finally 'liberated' to start spouting their true feelings, invariably extremist shit of one form or another) and engaging in other lovely behaviour like throwing the "c" word around.
And then several 'left behind' will say, "Oh, why did beloved Dipshit get banned?"--when various others could tell that beloved Dipshit really was a terrible person all along, as subsequent posting behaviour bears out.

The times they are a-changin.

I went through that several times. As far as the "stand in" routine it's gotten miles better that it's beyond description. In fact it's rare that it happens today since a more mature or realistic tone has taken over but it still occurs every so often and in a way I find it cynically entertaining. I also saw a couple of folks go to the village of the damned and turn into monsters that I never would have expected. Ever since then I've been reluctant to share my email. I do however ignore that whole lot completely since I find it rather immature and full of mental illnesses.

1264 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:25:32am
1265 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:27:49am

re: #1264 wildfire

Whom are you addressing? I don't believe we have met.

1266 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:29:00am

re: #1262 iceweasel

Okay, if others agree to drop the personal insults.

1267 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:31:49am

re: #1257 Jimmah

Seconded.

Thirded.


Third Street Woman Blues - Blind Willie Reynolds

Hmm-mmm, where my Third Street woman now?
Hmm-mmm, where my Third Street woman now?
Thought she would cheat street me, got the coldest stuff in town

Don't like my ch-chick...

I had so much chicken till I heard cluckin' in my sleep
I got so much chicken till I heard cluckin' in my sleep
Don't like my table, mama, please don't dig so deep

She's a big fat mama with the meat shakin' on her bone
She's a big fat mama with the meat shakin' on her bone
And every time she shake it, Lord, a hustlin' woman lose her home


She's got something that the men call a stingaree
She's got something that the men call a stingaree
Four o'clock every morning, you turn it loose on me

Hmm-mmm, where my Third Street woman gone?
Hmm-mmm, where my Third Street woman gone?
Believe to my soul, she would hustle everywhere but home

If you can't be my rollin' mama, you can't spend your change
If you can't be my rollin' mama, you can't spend my change

1268 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:35:58am

re: #1263 Gus 802

I went through that several times. As far as the "stand in" routine it's gotten miles better that it's beyond description. In fact it's rare that it happens today since a more mature or realistic tone has taken over but it still occurs every so often and in a way I find it cynically entertaining. I also saw a couple of folks go to the village of the damned and turn into monsters that I never would have expected. Ever since then I've been reluctant to share my email. I do however ignore that whole lot completely since I find it rather immature and full of mental illnesses.

Very wise. Very, very wise.
On the other hand, I met Jimmah this way, so it's not always bad to share one's email...

That whole lot is rife with mental illness. I know it's common to say such things casually, but in their case it's serious. There is something deeply wrong with people who have such a personal commitment to a website and the blogger that they're obsessing over it years later-- they talk about it like they're talking about a former best friend who stole their wife and shot their dog.
I see incipient signs of such mental illness in others and it freaks me out.

1269 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:37:54am

re: #1261 TheMatrix31


I wonder if they really believe what they're posting or if it's just a 'let's see what kind of idiotic crap I can spout off' trial balloon to see how much outlandish shit they can say before somebody calls them out on it.

1270 TheMatrix31  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:41:31am

re: #1269 Fenway_Nation

Scary thing is, it could just as easily be both.

1271 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:47:40am

re: #1268 iceweasel

Very wise. Very, very wise.
On the other hand, I met Jimmah this way, so it's not always bad to share one's email...

That whole lot is rife with mental illness. I know it's common to say such things casually, but in their case it's serious. There is something deeply wrong with people who have such a personal commitment to a website and the blogger that they're obsessing over it years later-- they talk about it like they're talking about a former best friend who stole their wife and shot their dog.
I see incipient signs of such mental illness in others and it freaks me out.

Yep. I've seen it happen before. I've almost gotten sucked into it a few times but avoided it. There's a lot of crazy people on the internet. An oft repeated theme. Some of the people that have been victims become predators themselves. Others have come from the old days of USENET with their own personal following of stalkers. Some of them have continuing feuds that have lasted well over 5 years. Sometimes all it takes is one off hand comment to get their attention. By then it's too late and they latch onto you like a madman.

1272 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:53:31am

re: #1271 Gus 802

Yep. I've seen it happen before. I've almost gotten sucked into it a few times but avoided it. There's a lot of crazy people on the internet. An oft repeated theme. Some of the people that have been victims become predators themselves. Others have come from the old days of USENET with their own personal following of stalkers. Some of them have continuing feuds that have lasted well over 5 years. Sometimes all it takes is one off hand comment to get their attention. By then it's too late and they latch onto you like a madman.

Yep. The anonymity, I think, makes it easier for people to project weird perceptions onto others, whether positive or negative. Cree. Pee.

Take care, Gus-- Jimmah-ski and I are off for now. Cheers!

1273 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:55:27am

re: #1272 iceweasel

Yep. The anonymity, I think, makes it easier for people to project weird perceptions onto others, whether positive or negative. Cree. Pee.

Take care, Gus-- Jimmah-ski and I are off for now. Cheers!

Later Iceweasel-ski and Jimmah-ski!

1274 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:55:58am

re: #1272 iceweasel

Case in point: People are far more aggressive and expressive of their anger when behind the wheel of a Motor, safe behind locked doors and a glass cocoon.

1275 laZardo  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:39:24am

This thread is probably dead already, but I will say that America needs a new leftist party. Euro-'socialist'-left, to be precise. America has always been calibrated just to the right of everyone else due to the prejudices of a political ideology that has done absolutely nothing of benefit for this country since it was founded and it's nice to see someone appreciates this.

1276 Indepublicrat  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:56:39am

Welcome to the rational center, Charles!

1277 jordash1212  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:13:29am

Thank you for saying this, Charles.

1278 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:26:16am

@OP... Damn straight!

Registered Republican that I am, no one gets my vote out of party loyalty. Bring something real to the table, or get lost.

I want the party I signed on with to present a rational, sane counter-point to the opposition, not the crazy garbage they seem to be promoting now.

Left, right, center, whatever... I refuse to vote for the Enemies of Reality.

1279 eneri  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:45:51am

I am proud of you. So many people are fooled, remember, "when fascism come to America it will be wrapped in the American flag carrying the cross" (Sinclair Lewis).

1280 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:52:48am
1281 Bagua  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:22:23am

re: #1280 clayusmcret

Any conclusion or definitive statement based upon the CRU hack is premature. That you can conclude that it proves that "Global warming is a scam for power, having nothing to do with saving the planet" shows a great deal of bias and agenda on your part.

It looks like you want to believe certain things, so you only wish to read sources that feed your bias. You are not after analysis, you want confirmation. Sad to see.

1282 bj  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:29:12am

Thank you, Charles. :-)

1283 SixDegrees  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:57:35am

re: #1280 clayusmcret

I disagree. At this point, there is no indication that the CRU data has been manipulated to achieve a desired result. There is a question over whether the dataset they used to derive their results can be reconstructed from the raw data it came from, but that is an altogether different matter from accusations of outright fraud. No indication of fraud has appeared, that I'm aware of.

1284 AuldTrafford  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:58:48am

Charles:

Well, you've done exactly what you criticize in Obama-critics: you have damned by association. Your list of reasons does not go to basic values or principles.

Frankly, I believe the Left has been your orientation right along, and simply found a brief post-9/11 affiliation with the Right.

All those things are OK. The main thing is you have taken a position, and that is commendable. I think you will now be much more comfortable with your core values; I hope you will identify them - at least for yourself - at some point. When you have done that, you can address the question of where they came from, and where they will take you.

You exude passion, and that is important for "the debate". It will evoke passion in others, so you need to be prepared for that.

Best of luck to you.

1285 Peter Ness  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:00:18am

Thank you for the elucidation Charles. I wondered why there were no more stories about buzzing prayer mats.

1286 Walahi  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:10:04am

re: #1281 Bagua

re: #1280 clayusmcret

It seems that Climate Change is such a touchy subject...hmmm.

I think people with at least a modicum of rationality would agree that the global climate is changing. Whether this is man-made or natural is actually not very interesting to me. We DO have a manufacturing process that can emphasize greater efficiency and we would want to have the cleanest possible environment. These issues I don't see as needing the impetus of the world's demise to be addressed.

In other words, I'd love to see the debate on environment viewed positively and merely as an extension of market economics. The 'save-the-world' types are insufferable and honestly, its not a very productive way to frame the debate. The debate inevitably breaks down between those who want to radically alter society (neo-luddites I have heard them called) and those who want more prove, knowing that they will never be satisfied so they continue to do what they do.

The more interesting question to me is not whether it is happening or not, but rather what can actually be done and will that action produce the necessary results. Everyone talks about cutting emissions, but I would like to see how such cuts are feasible; show me how to do it cost-effectively. If we can't do that with the current state of technology, let's talk about achieving that state of technology. How its done, what funding does it need and its logistics. Countries that are competing in a Green Race would produce far better results than this collaborative non-sense that has been dominating the Environmental Debate for teh past 15 years. Sorry there is no appetite to work together in a global 'government'; nation-states are in competition with each other for resources.

To bring the post back to the topic of the thread, there is a lot of talk of what will be agreed at COP15 for example, but I think this is another issue where the 'Right' failed to, well, get it right. I would not impeach the scientists but rather the policy makers. Instead of focusing to ensure that governments collaborate to investigate post-fossil fuel alternatives, ensuring that businesses, research and engineering get enough funding or better yet, ensure the financial iniciatives to initiate their own investigations and compete in a 'green tech race' (akin to a space race if you will), we have conspiracy theories about how a cabal of scientists along with a host of others are trying to gain world control.

In short, COP15 is another opportunity that the Right has shown it is not interested in providing solutions, just opposition and temper tantrums.

1287 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:18:50am
1288 ulmsey123  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:19:45am

The "right". A label. I am a "conservative". But what does that mean? Does anyone really know what I believe based upon that label?
I do not need to break with the "right", the "left" or anybody.
I simply need to answer to myself.
It's a sad situation where individuals feel they need to pitch their tent in a certain realm of thought.
My tent is wherever the hell I want it to be.
Thank you very much.

1289 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:08:54am
1290 nevets  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:26:16am

Charles...

Like most of us, I've experienced and aligned with both extremes...depending on situations and what I call "the personnel identity syndrome."

...but I always end up back in the middle...on my feet...head clear and facing forward.

If I may quote a Zen proverb I got from LGF:

If you understand, things are just as they are: if you do not understand, things are just as they are...

1291 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:26:22am
1292 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:33:34am
1293 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:35:10am
1294 Locker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:35:45am

re: #1291 desertdweller

Oh, I'm so convinced by the generalities here that I'm changing my affiliation immediately.

But tell us, Charles, where will you go now that you've parted ways with the right? The uber-left seems to love you now. You can go kissy-kissy with them by yourself.

Remember to post pics of your skipping down the beach with Kos, OK?

Did you mean to sound like a spurned lover or is that just coincidental?

1295 andres  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:48:12am

It's not much that Charles parted ways with the Right, but the Right left Charles and jumped off the cliff.

1296 bosforus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:50:04am

re: #1291 desertdweller

Zing!

1297 carey94tt  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:53:07am

re: #1177 carnaby

I haven't forgotten what mud the left drug Charles through and I'm only a casual observer. You think Charles has forgotten? I still don't see *anything* to suggest some group hug with Charles and the left. Don't hold your breath.

1298 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:53:29am
1299 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:56:07am
1300 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:58:25am

Good one Charles!

I used to think you were part of the Rightwing too. As it happened I "discovered" Crooks and liars before LGF for myself. And compared to John Amato you were still on the right of him. But you've seen the light and become more and more moderate right (Or should I say, the right has moved more to the twilightzone right.) And I'm sure you still have a lot of ideological differences with Amato but I also think there is more common ground between the two of you as time went by.

Like Amato he shares the same view on the rightwing media and lunatic conspiracies. Lately you've beat him on current matters, like the troubles Mike Huckabee is in right now.

Someone has to report the bollocks that is the rightwing. And LGF is the right (no pun) source for your information. Keep up the good work, Charles.

WoO.

1301 Malleus Dei  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:00:24am

Back when there were such things as Conservative Democrats I used to be one. Back in the seventies, when the Democratic Party became the party of ignorant socialist loons, I left it. When the Republican Party became the party of the likes of George W. Bush I left it as well.

Until anyone forms of a pragmatic party featuring common sense that actually understands economics, values personal freedom, and opposes big government and the evil that is socialism in all forms I'll be staying an Independent. Sadly, I have to watch the wheels come off the American wagon as two parties full of clueless people who think governing equals spending money the country doesn't have busily turn America into another England.

Why is it that a modern American who clearly understands that if he is broke that the worst thing that he can do is to use credit cards forgets that fact as soon as he is elected to office?

1302 greygandalf  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:02:43am

Did you join ways with the left? This post implies that. However, you did not state that directly. Could this be interpreted as becoming an independent?

1303 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:03:51am

I never cease to be disappointed at the conservative rights' inability to tolerate anyone who doesn't mirror their ideology. They hate moderates and anyone who leans left so keenly that they refuse to even participate on a blog or forum where moderates and leftists are allowed to contribute to the conversation.

It's arrogance, ignorance and intolerance to the 9th degree - and IMO, just further proof that the conservative right is incapable of functioning outside of an echo chamber and incapable of independant thought in the political arena.

Have at it, folks.

Me? I prefer to stay here in the real world where some people actually think differently than I do. I don't require an echo chamber to feel good about what I believe.

Social conservatism breeds ignorance and cruelty, and it violates every single principal that this Nation of free men and women was founded upon. I welcome and enjoy conversation with individuals from all across the political spectrum because intellectual integrity, diversity of opinion and the right of the individual to captain his own ship are all basic benchmarks of democracy.

I'm happy to be a part of a blog community that recognizes that fact, and honors those very important American principals.

Thank you for all of your hard work, Charles.

1304 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:04:53am

re: #19 NJDhockeyfan

I consider myself a right-winger however I do not go so far right that would qualify me to be in that group. I am more of a Reagan Republican. Is there a place for me anywhere?

Even he is not sacret to the far right. They attempt to hijack his thoughts as well for themself.

1305 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:04:54am

re: #1297 carey94tt

I haven't forgotten what mud the left drug Charles through and I'm only a casual observer. You think Charles has forgotten? I still don't see *anything* to suggest some group hug with Charles and the left. Don't hold your breath.

Neither do I, and only an insane person would suggest it.

1306 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:06:59am
1307 wheelz  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:08:24am

re: #1289 soccerdad

Thanks for coming out and saying what has been clear to me for a while. Charles, I've enjoyed coming here for years and years. You've given me great pleasure through your postings and writing. I really appreciate the intellectual honesty you've shown by posting this. While I disagree with many of your conclusions, especially around global warming, I'll stop by from time to time, just as I have been doing for the last few months, as opposed to 4 and 5 times per day that was my norm.

Hopefully, given your past, you'll continue to post reasoned, well-thought through arguments for the Left's position. Stay away from the tag-lines...Bush Lied, people died!

Good Luck. I'll leave you all with one of my favorite movie quotes. From A Clear and Present Danger: (James Ritter to Jack Ryan) "The world's not black and white Jack! It's gray. It's gray, JACK! GRAY!"

Thanks for putting my thoughts into words. I agree.

1308 robdouth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:08:44am

It's funny because I don't believe any of those things either, but I still consider my self conservative. Who else is there? I mean not the specific personalities, Rush, Beck, Palin because I've never believed that one person could embody an entire political view. The closest I come to listening to someone on the right rather regularly is Dennis Prager, and it's because he takes a break from a lot of the politics. I guess the legit question is, if you break with the right, where do you go. Also, I only recently came back to the site, and is the tone of the posting changing because of this fear of being associated with the right? So you specifically target them more now than anyone else? Just asking because, and for disclosure I've only looked back over the last month, so maybe it's a recent development.

1309 robdouth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:11:13am

re: #1303 Irish Rose
Everything you say could easily be said about the left also with regards to environmentalism (read not just AGW), abortion, etc. I'm not excusing the right, which seems to have imploded over the last couple years, just saying, get some perspective people. Which party is threatening free speech more? If you honestly think it's conservatives, then I believe your not thinking clearly.

1310 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:11:21am
1311 jmuren  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:12:15am

re: #1283 SixDegrees

If the raw data has been destroyed, how do you recreate it? It requires an in-depth knowledge of the algorithms used in creating the "adjusted" data, and even then, it may not be entirely reversible. The lack of openness that the University of Anglia CRU showed is reprehensible. Any good scientist would want his/her results validated, otherwise it's just another "Cold Fusion" debacle. Using friends to peer review and using them to prevent peer-review of others is also reprehensible, and appears may have been going on as well.

1312 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:13:56am

re: #1297 carey94tt

I haven't forgotten what mud the left drug Charles through and I'm only a casual observer. You think Charles has forgotten? I still don't see *anything* to suggest some group hug with Charles and the left. Don't hold your breath.

Exactly. Why are some people determined to see extremely relevant criticism of the current state of the right as some kind of complete embrace of the left? It makes no sense whatsoever.

And some people's apparent inability to tolerate exposure to ideas they don't agree with is even stranger. Do they think they'll catch cooties if they're exposed to people who have different ideas? Or are they so insecure in their own positions that they can't tolerate the barest hint of disagreement with them? Very, very strange.

1313 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:14:30am

re: #1311 jmuren

The lack of openness turns out to be politically unwise. Not the same as reprehensible.

Peer review is generally done by peers, who may or may not be friends. And peer review is a critical process; nobody tries to stop it being done to a paper, if they're hostile to that paper, they want it to be peer-reviewed.

1314 Locker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:16:23am

re: #1306 FXArtist

And it seems that you are completely deluded about your own party and lack any ability to use critical observation. As long as we are talking about how things "seem".

1315 songbird  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:16:42am

Wow! I have not been on for a while, and now this tea party organizing gal who care so much for this nation, Israel, and reasonableness has been relegated to the "far right" bastions?

What happened?

1316 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:17:07am

re: #1306 FXArtist

I stopped reading your blog over a year ago

And yet here you are. Fortunately this sentence is doubtless where everyone stops reading your comment--it's all too clear that the usual sobs and drool will follow.

1317 jmuren  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:17:17am

re: #1313 Obdicut

When certain folks say the science is already determined, yet destroy data when those skeptical want to see it, what is to be taken from that situation? It's more than unwise. It's more than stupid. It give the appearance of trying to hide something.

1318 Mickey Blumental  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:18:03am

Holy crap. I couldn't agree more. It's like you live inside my head.

The left also has their crazies, but in a more balanced way. It's scary not being able to find a side I agree with... That's why it's so nice to have this balanced non-partisan blog. Keep up the good work.

1319 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:19:16am

re: #1310 OldNuc

Asshole.

1320 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:20:19am

Got a question for you. How many of you think Obama is the lesser of two evils?

Personally I'm pretty scared to see the present Republican party in power. I weep for the world in which a Limbaugh dominated Republican party having the majority in either the House or senate. At present the do nothing to move America forward. All they do is block any democratic initiative for the sake of it being a democratic initiative.

The democrats are also far from perfect. In all honesty that would be too much too ask. No party is ever perfect. There are bound to be differences anyway. But as I said, the present republican party is everything that Charles has said. It's a party which I won't want to be associated with.

And I'm affraid it will never return to normality ever anymore.

1321 Obdicut  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:20:32am

re: #1317 jmuren

The data wasn't destroyed. For the umpteenth million time.

There is a possibility that about 5% of one set of data from the 1980s from one source isn't reconstructible.

Since we have data from tons of other sources and tons of different models using tons of different data, it's a complete non-issue to anyone who doesn't have an agenda to attack scientists.

1322 Locker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:23:22am

re: #1321 Obdicut

The data wasn't destroyed. For the umpteenth million time.

There is a possibility that about 5% of one set of data from the 1980s from one source isn't reconstructible.

Since we have data from tons of other sources and tons of different models using tons of different data, it's a complete non-issue to anyone who doesn't have an agenda to attack scientists.

I think you hit it on the head regarding the agenda. That's what happens when you try to find evidence to support beliefs rather than developing an opinion based on evidence.

1323 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:25:03am

re: #44 Charles

As you're a creationist, I wouldn't expect you to agree.

Ouch! Hahahaha!! :-)

1324 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:25:23am

re: #1322 Locker

I think you hit it on the head regarding the agenda. That's what happens when you try to find evidence to support beliefs rather than developing an opinion based on evidence.

Yep. Confirmation bias: the exact opposite of the scientific method.

(Which, strangely enough, is exactly what the denialists accuse the real scientists of all the time, whether it's AGW or creationism that's under discussion).

1325 Locker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:26:49am

re: #1324 iceweasel

Missed you.

1326 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:29:05am

re: #1325 Locker

Missed you.

I'm back, baby! Missed you as well. :)

I'm moving to Scotland and getting married to Jimmah in a couple of weeks. And we met right here on LGF. What's new with you?

1327 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:30:14am
1328 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:32:02am

What some folks fail to see is that Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan do not run the Democratic party. Even if you think Charles is "going there" which he isn't. He has attacked the idiots on the Left just as much as the right.

The difference is that Moore and Sheehan provide entertainment value. They don't make policy. Not like conservative politicians such as Buchanan, Bachman, Palin who are ingrained in the GOP and shape it. Even Michael Steele cow-towed to Limbaugh. They have the ability to change the world in ways that cannot be undone. A hell of a lot scarier than some goons holding up peace signs. Or making millions off of movies about capitalism! Good grief.

Anyway, keep up the good work, Charles!

1329 NappieRed  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:32:44am

Charles -

I'm sitting shiva over this. I don't agree with you, but G-d knows, you are free to believe whatever you want. I wish you & our country only the best. The majority of us are Centrists so the extremes on both sides don't resonate with us. However, I will stick with the right (after MANY years as a liberal hippie) who I believe will keep us safe & work to change their official agenda for those social policies I don't agree with. Like any family, there is never a 100% consensus on anything.

Best Always -

NappieRed

1330 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:36:57am

Hi Ice! What's the time diff out there? Hope you're doing well :)

1331 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:38:34am
1332 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:40:08am
1333 GeorgetownPress  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:44:05am

As you have commented, Charles, this posting is nothing new, but simply a summation of your long-standing positions.

So, this now leaves the much bigger question that needs to be considered. What is the way forward?

In that respect, what is the political vehicle one should embrace in order to advance a sane and effective political program? Do you say the Republican party is the only viable vehicle and simply bide one's time waiting for increasing electoral marginalization to push the Republican Party back to sanity; or, do you give up on the Republican Party and push for the creation of center-right party devoid of the anti-laïque elements (I would suggest Bloomberg as chairman to lead its construction) that hopes to pick up the large numbers of secular rightists that have left the Republicans as well as centrist democrats?

Anyway, I think that is the giant question people here need to consider and that I think we all would like to hear your considered reply after you have contemplated the question for some time.

(N.B. "Secularism" connotes two distinct concepts: "sécularité" and "laïcité;" sécularité essentially meaning non-religious and laïcité essentially meaning separation of Church and State . i.e. One can be profoundly religious and still laïque, it just means that you don't use your religion to try to impose unquestionable precepts on others.)

1335 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:52:04am

re: #1330 marjoriemoon

Hi Ice! What's the time diff out there? Hope you're doing well :)

Hey MMmmm!
It's 3.50 pm, which makes it almost dark. It's very foggy. How are you?

1336 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:53:13am
1337 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:54:59am

re: #1334 William of Orange

There's a shitload more on memeorandum, which explains the deluge of flouncers at the moment. FYI, if you're going to link to sites that are hostile to LGF, it's a good idea to link the google cache instead of the site directly---it avoids sending them the traffic. Half of them post rants about LGF precisely because they hope LGF will link them and send them the traffic. Just so you know.

You can find the google cache by googling cache:URL .

1338 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:59:30am
1339 Locker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:00:10am

re: #1326 iceweasel

I'm back, baby! Missed you as well. :)

I'm moving to Scotland and getting married to Jimmah in a couple of weeks. And we met right here on LGF. What's new with you?

Not anything near what's new with you guys. Congratulations and have a fantastic wedding!

Scotland though? You sure he shouldn't come to SF or wherever you are instead? Isn't it hard to get sour dough and sushi in Scotland?

1340 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:00:23am

re: #1335 iceweasel

Hey MMmmm!
It's 3.50 pm, which makes it almost dark. It's very foggy. How are you?

Oh the fog... the peat... Oh the peat!

Doing well this holiday season so far. No bonuses, no raises, but I'm employed so no complaints. Just gonna be a slim holiday. Think I'll try my hand at making candies this year.

Hugs to you and the Jimster.

1341 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:00:35am
1342 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:02:11am

Charles, this topic is going to be generating a lot of discussion all day today because of it's placement on Memeorandum. It's becoming increasingly difficult to load the page, may I suggest a Part II?

1343 Locker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:05:28am

All these flouncers purity testing themselves... kind of weird yet strangely hypnotic and I can't look away...

1344 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:06:34am
1345 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:08:08am

re: #1339 Locker


Scotland though? You sure he shouldn't come to SF or wherever you are instead? Isn't it hard to get sour dough and sushi in Scotland?

Scotland: come for the whisky, stay for the socialism!
I always planned on relocating to the UK permanently in any case for various reasons, but Scotland is more of a culture shock than say, London, I'll admit.

re: #1340 marjoriemoon

Think I'll try my hand at making candies this year.

Nice! Good luck! and hugs back.

re: #1342 Irish Rose

Charles, this topic is going to be generating a lot of discussion all day today because of it's placement on Memeorandum. It's becoming increasingly difficult to load the page, may I suggest a Part II?

Seconded; excellent idea. And congrats on your engagement!

1346 Surabaya Stew  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:09:05am

WOW...am enjoying the flounces in action! Keep it up losers; you're making my day!

1347 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:11:28am
1348 Lidane  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:12:20am

re: #1303 Irish Rose

Me? I prefer to stay here in the real world where some people actually think differently than I do. I don't require an echo chamber to feel good about what I believe.

Same here. In fact, that's why I'm enjoying my time at LGF a great deal. I've even learned far more about the issues surrounding AGW than I knew before I got here. It's been instructive, and the debates fascinating.

I don't understand wanting to only read people who agree with my ideas 100% of the time. IMO, that kind of echo chamber is boring and doesn't provide a challenge. What good is it to surround myself with people who tell me I'm right all the damned time? I'd rather debate a reasoned conservative and maybe end up with something to think about rather than just have my own opinions reinforced. Plus, we might even have some common ground on other issues, which is a good thing.

Thank you for all of your hard work, Charles.

Definitely. Thanks a bunch, indeed!

1349 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:15:19am
1350 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:23:02am

re: #1349 madmark

What's the matter? Itchin to run to Kirly's site to tell your sad, sad story? So she can post your name 5 times and every sock you ever registered to inflate those banning numbers? Sounds like a pretty sucky gig to me.

1351 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:24:30am
1352 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:27:32am

re: #1351 LANMaster

In response to your childish tirade...

"I'll pitch a tantrum of several hundred words! Wah, wah, wah!"

Damn, the butthurt is overwhelming today.

1353 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:27:45am
1354 Judith  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:29:47am

Well I have to say congrats Charles, first you avoided running off the left side cliff, now you're avoiding the right side. I guess the secret is to just keep it between the lines and stay on track. Oh I especially agree about FOX. I complained to my cable news provider and fussed and fussed until I finally got it about three years ago but it's getting so looney lately CNN is looking good. About the only one I watch over at FOX these days is O'Reiley. Beck? A disgraceful loon, as bad as any of the far left loons you ever rested your feet on oh mighty lizardoid master.

I think we need to start a whole new political movement, common sense. CHarles for president!

1355 songbird  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:30:22am

I might not pass anyone's purity test today!

I am so sorry. If banned, well, I've loved our discussions.

1356 predator_intelligence  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:31:30am

I tend to find as many idiots/extremists on the left. For every idiot or idiot conspiracy you find on the right...they are there on the left as well. Through the 8 years of Bush they came scurrying out of the wood.

I vote rep mainly due to economic reasons...IE in general they are going to tax me and my biz less than the av dem.

If I had to classify myself however it would be more of a libertarian. Unfortunately however the actual libertarian party is a bunch of kooks.

I want the gov out of my business affairs and I want the government out of my personal affairs. The less gov tells us how to run our biz (taxes, regulations, etc) the better off we are. The less gov tell us how to run our personal lives (abortion, gay marriage, the drug war, etc) the better off we are. Let me do my thing and I will happily let you do your thing.

1357 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:32:52am

re: #1337 iceweasel

There's a shitload more on memeorandum, which explains the deluge of flouncers at the moment. FYI, if you're going to link to sites that are hostile to LGF, it's a good idea to link the google cache instead of the site directly---it avoids sending them the traffic. Half of them post rants about LGF precisely because they hope LGF will link them and send them the traffic. Just so you know.

You can find the google cache by googling cache:URL .

I'm still a rookie inhere. :-) Doing my best of course (raking up Karma in bundles. ;) ) Next time cache.


(Off-topic: The youtube link in your profile is dead. Pulled by youtube for violation.)

1358 middy  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:33:51am

It's amazing how many people equate "parting ways with the right" with "embracing the left".

Simple, shallow minds.

Thanks, Charles. Keep up the good work.

1359 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:34:06am
1360 middy  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:36:26am

re: #1359 Fearless Freep

What do you propose we do about it? March around spouting paranoid garbage? Have fun!

1361 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:37:22am

re: #1359 Fearless Freep

I just cannot understand you guys. THe Obama adminstartion is in the process of making a giant statist power grab, nationalizing and socializing everything they possibly can as fast as they can and you guys slam the right??? Don't you guys care about freedom anymore???

The problem is that nobody sees it this way except the far right, that Obama is a commie socialist making a "power grab". So the Bush administration was NOT a fascist government making its own "power grab". No, of course, not. And the only people who saw it that way were whacked out commie leftists, right?

The more things change, the more things stay the same.

1362 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:38:44am

re: #1358 middy

It's amazing how many people equate "parting ways with the right" with "embracing the left".

Simple, shallow minds.

Thanks, Charles. Keep up the good work.

The sins of the right do not wash away the sins of the left.

1363 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:39:16am

re: #1351 LANMaster

@Charles,
Don't delete this. I't's exactly the filth you're fighting against.

And to LANmaster, goodbye. May we see each other in "Modern Warfare 2". I;'ll frag your ass. ;)

1364 rhino2  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:42:11am

re: #1361 marjoriemoon

No the Bush Administration wasn't a fascist government making a power grab. Spent way too much money? Absolutely. Have any number of other flaws? sure. Fascist in any way? No.

These words lose meaning when applied to such moderate governments as American ones. This is a fascist. You'd do well to learn what it means.

1365 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:42:14am
1366 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:42:15am

Charles should run for president.

But first: SHOW ME A BIRTH CERTIFICATE!

Grin :)

1367 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:48:19am

re: #1357 William of Orange

I'm still a rookie inhere. :-) Doing my best of course (raking up Karma in bundles. ;) ) Next time cache.

(Off-topic: The youtube link in your profile is dead. Pulled by youtube for violation.)

Cheers, will fix. It was Green Day-- American Idiot. Hmmm, what to pick now?

1368 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:51:10am

18 flounces so far. Did I miss anyone?

1369 rhino2  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:51:16am

re: #1365 Fearless Freep

re: #1356 predator_intelligence

I am with you!

A few years ago Charles was one of us but he has made a swing in political opinion as drastic as Arriana Huffington made after she left the McLaughlin Group

Charles wasn't "one of you" a few years ago if he isn't one of you now. He has always pointed out rabid extremism, and done the fact checking of political pundits on the air that the media was never willing to do. During the previous 8 years most of the noise (read: outright lies and deception) was coming from the left because the white house had a Republican in it, and now the tables have turned. Charles is still doing what he does, the noise machine has simply changed sides with the white house.

1370 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:52:57am

18 flounces...good golly. Is that a record for one thread?

1371 Idle Drifter  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:57:44am

Little Green Footballs is one of the last bastions of intelligent thought in a sea of trolls, mobies, and lunatics that makes up the blogosphere. Though people here are varied with conflicting opinions we are drawn together for the pursuit of varied news sources, science and innovations, music, combating extremism, and standing up for the principles of a freedom loving peoples and intellectual honesty. Oh, I forgot funny videos and cute kittens.
We don’t agree with each other 100% of time yet we have the courtesy to explain our positions without resorting to the sophomoric tactics as calling the opposition a poopyhead. I not going to say that hasn’t happened on LGF as many a sleeper has popped out of hiding or a long time poster went off the deep end have had the hammer come down on them. Some even still stalk Charles. Forgiveness has been granted for the occasional slip and people here are genuine. Charles runs a tight ship and expects his guests to behave themselves.
I’m glad Charles remains honest and points out the flaws and shenanigans of all parties and not throwing out covering flak for their short comings and serious WTF moments. Toeing the party line has never been a good practice for humanity with history all too ready to remind us. Had Dan Rather not been driven by politics he would be still be sitting in his chair on his show. The Republican purge is going to come back to haunt them down the road. History will prove Charles to be correct.
If you don’t like LGF, don’t embarrass yourself when you leave. You’re not impressing anyone.
With that I leave you with a video.

1372 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:58:13am

Quite a load of hateful comments here.

An object example of exactly what this post is about.

1373 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:58:22am

re: #1367 iceweasel

We're going totally off-topic here but anyway...

Try looking for Dean Gray. It will surprise you. Expecting a report from you about that. Dr. Who on holiday.

Boulevard of broken songs.

Novocaine Rhapsody.
(Both excellent in execution as well as very topical. Both songs compliment each other.)

Enjoy!

1374 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:58:56am

re: #1365 Fearless Freep


A few years ago Charles was one of us but he has made a swing in political opinion as drastic as Arriana Huffington made after she left the McLaughlin Group

Bollocks. You liked it when Charles pointed out the idiocy and excesses of the left, and you're crying when he points it out on the right. That's all this is about.
Criticising the right doesn't equal love and endorsement of 'the left', any more than criticism of the left makes one a Republican. (The best criticisms of the Dems are coming from the left at the moment, btw.)

This isn't like a sports rivalry. It's not an either/or proposition, all or nothing. Intelligent rational adults can see flaws on both sides-- and will realise that criticising one's own side when they go wrong is at least as important as merely attacking the 'opposing' side. Arguably this post is one of the strongest ways Charles could support the right!--the rational right, that is.

1375 researchok  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:00:45am

re: #1372 Charles

Quite a load of hateful comments here.

An object example of exactly what this post is about.

Not all.

Charles Johnson Rides Off Into The Sunrise

1376 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:00:57am
1377 rhino2  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:05:30am

re: #1376 fighton

I have a feeling your wish will be granted.

1378 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:07:41am

re: #1364 rhino2

No the Bush Administration wasn't a fascist government making a power grab. Spent way too much money? Absolutely. Have any number of other flaws? sure. Fascist in any way? No.

These words lose meaning when applied to such moderate governments as American ones. This is a fascist. You'd do well to learn what it means.

My point, maybe I didn't make it clearly, was that calling Obama's Admin commie socialists is about as crazy as calling Bush's Admin Fascist. I certainly do know the difference, yet I will say that certain of Bush's policies scared the hellouta me, particularly concerning the Patriot Act and wiring tapping.

Democrats are socialists. This is true and support more socialized programs than the right. Yet there are plenty of Republicans who use our social programs, welfare, Medicare/Medicaid and the like. No one asks your party affiliation to enjoy those programs under our system. Anyway, I don't get this screaming about Obama taking us off the rails.

1379 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:07:56am
1380 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:08:33am
1381 bender  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:09:09am

Charles - its been a while since ive been here - and I felt strongly enough about your post to say something.

For some of us there are enemies on all sides, and its important to remember who hates you the least. With that in mind I take issue with some of the labels you applied in your post - but not ALL of them.

Make sure that your separation from them doesnt remove your influence from them. That would be tragic as I see your temperment and opinion as very important. They probably would too if they slowed down a bit and thought about how you helped them develop, helped them find a voice, helped them have opinions...

1382 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:09:26am

re: #1380 fighton

If you don't want your account, then log out and don't come back. Pretty simple.

1383 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:11:02am

re: #1379 Martian

You have meant so much to this community. I don't know how we will get along without your input.
///

Karma: -3

Martian

(Logged in)
Registered since: May 12, 2009 at 10:03 am
No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

1384 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:12:39am

re: #1379 Martian

How does this differ from Daily KOS?

Charles doesn't snicker over the deaths of Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan.

1385 rhino2  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:16:07am

re: #1384 Sharmuta

Charles doesn't snicker over the deaths of Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan.

For one.

1386 Idle Drifter  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:17:00am

re: #1384 Sharmuta

Charles doesn't snicker over the deaths of Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Martian fails to realize we burn strawmen arguements here.

1387 wrenchwench  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:18:55am

Come on out! Fine weather for flouncing, or just making one's first comment!

VazLube

Karma: 0
Registered since: Dec 25, 2007 at 7:51 pm
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 0
No. of links posted: 0
Recent comments

1388 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:20:52am

re: #1385 rhino2

For one.

Yes- LGF also supports Israel.

1389 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:22:03am

re: #1386 Idle Drifter

Martian fails to realize we burn strawmen arguements here.

Wicker men, too.

1390 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:22:05am

re: #1388 Sharmuta

Yes- LGF also supports Israel.

I hope that doesn't upset any new readers.

1391 rhino2  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:23:17am

re: #1390 Sharmuta

I hope that doesn't upset any new readers.

If it does I hope they tell us all about it.

1392 Sharmuta  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:25:18am

re: #1391 rhino2

If it does I hope they tell us all about it.

The smart ones will just avoid those threads.

1393 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:26:06am

re: #1391 rhino2

If it does I hope they tell us all about it.

I see zero reason to assume we'll have an influx of new readers who hate Israel. And if we did they wouldn't be here long.

1394 Idle Drifter  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:28:14am

re: #1389 Guanxi88

LOL. The original was the better of the two.

Judging some of the flouncer comments these idiots would light their own fires while damning us for eating popcorn.

1395 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:29:36am

Looks pretty flouncy in here.

1396 Guanxi88  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:30:21am

re: #1394 Idle Drifter

LOL. The original was the better of the two.

Judging some of the flouncer comments these idiots would light their own fires while damning us for eating popcorn.

There was only one version of the film made, and that was back in the day.

Some jokers decided to spoof it, or perhaps they had a grudge or something, and so they made another film called "The Wicker Man".

1397 Irish Rose  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:30:26am

re: #1375 researchok

Not all.

Charles Johnson Rides Off Into The Sunrise

A great blog post, spot on.

1398 schmitzik  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:30:42am

Great opinion piece. It's amazing how many people willingly go over the cliff.

1399 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:31:09am

Megaflounce.

1400 Idle Drifter  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:33:41am

re: #1396 Guanxi88

The decent thing they could have done was name the film "Trying to be like The Wicker Man."

1401 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:36:35am

re: #1393 iceweasel

I see zero reason to assume we'll have an influx of new readers who hate Israel. And if we did they wouldn't be here long.

I wonder why anyone would disagree with this statement, or think that LGF would suddenly shelter people who hate Israel.

And why would anyone think that more traffic to LGF would be a bad thing, and that new posters should be regarded with suspicion?
Very strange.

1402 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:38:01am

re: #1400 Idle Drifter

The decent thing they could have done was name the film "Trying to be like The Wicker Man."

The decent thing they could have done was to build a tiny wicker pile of dogshit, film the burning of the only print of the remake inside it, and release that instead.
Not that I have strong feelings about it or anything...

1403 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:41:30am

re: #1401 iceweasel

Nothing - so long as people who pick up the Government of Israel on one point or another once in a while are not called "hamas sympathisers".

Definition of "Hate" on this topic is drawn very thin some places - there is genuine anti-semitic and anti-zionist hate thought and speech which is easy to spot and call out. But picking up the Israeli Government on anything can - in some forums - lead to unpleasentness on a cataclysmic variety.

just sayin'

1404 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:41:40am
1405 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:42:39am
1406 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:43:23am

re: #1404 Priebles

try going to the clinically sane Melanie Phillips for your philosphical group think re-enforcement therapy.

1407 Gus  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:44:11am

re: #1405 William of Orange

Don't link to that site please.

1408 Iron Mike  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:46:33am

While I don't disagree with at least some of the manifesto, the far right doesn't have a lock on hating the opposition as per #10. The far left is currently claiming (among other garbage) that Bush allowed Bin Laden et al to escape from Tora Bora so that he had a pretext to invade Iraq. The far left (with most of the mainstream media) think and act as if Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld are/were Satan himself.
I just hope we don't allow the media and their portrayal of conservatism to talk us into voting Lib or staying home.

1409 Idle Drifter  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:48:16am

re: #1402 iceweasel

re: #1400 Idle Drifter


The decent thing they could have done was to build a tiny wicker pile of dogshit, film the burning of the only print of the remake inside it, and release that instead.
Not that I have strong feelings about it or anything...

Iron Maiden did the right thing with some Bad Ass Cover Art!

Film makers need to realize there are some stories that don't need to be retold in a new unique way. Especially when the retelling is a rewrite of original. Beowulf, Starship Troopers, anything Disney.

1410 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:50:53am

Why do these people think I'm going to let their hateful rants and goodbye cruel world comments remain posted at my site?

They spend so much time writing them. You can almost see the venom dripping from their words.

And then the post is deleted within minutes and they're blocked.

Over and over they do this. Like flies battering themselves against a window.

1411 Idle Drifter  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:52:01am

re: #1410 Charles

Why do these people think I'm going to let their hateful rants and goodbye cruel world comments remain posted at my site?

They spend so much time writing them. You can almost see the venom dripping from their words.

And then the post is deleted within minutes and they're blocked.

Over and over they do this. Like flies battering themselves against a window.

More of a bug zapper, Charles.

1412 Lanzman  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:53:31am

Hooah, Charles.

1413 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:53:39am

What I wonder is what it will take to the right to become rational again. Disbanding of the GOP?

1414 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:55:37am

re: #1413 Pepper Fox

What I wonder is what it will take to the right to become rational again. Disbanding of the GOP?

The rational right posts comments on LGF.

1415 Locker  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:56:35am

re: #1403 wozzablog

Yes that is a definite problem for some folks, including a number of LGF regulars. Any criticism of any part of anything Israel says or does automatically gets you labeled as a Hamas sympathizer, an anti-semite and a hater of Israel.

It's the same mentality which claims that Charles parting with the Right means he's embracing the Left. Nuance and context are completely lost on this mind set.

1416 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:57:00am

re: #1414 NJDhockeyfan

The rational right posts comments on LGF.

Well I mean in a general scheme of things, there's crazy people and rational people on both sides, but the Republicans have pretty much scarred off everyone who can relate to rational people.

1417 William of Orange  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:57:09am

re: #1407 Gus 802

Don't link to that site please.

I would have used a cache for that of course but that wasn't available.

Was a funny pic though.

1418 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:57:09am

re: #1411 Idle Drifter

More of a bug zapper, Charles.

It's mental illness. The level of vitriol and hatred, and such a weirdly personalised hatred-- it's deeply abnormal.

1419 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:59:15am

re: #1418 iceweasel

It's mental illness. The level of vitriol and hatred, and such a weirdly personalised hatred-- it's deeply abnormal.

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

* Steven Weinberg

1420 cliffster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:59:37am

re: #1418 iceweasel

It's mental illness. The level of vitriol and hatred, and such a weirdly personalised hatred-- it's deeply abnormal.

Unfortunately, it would appear to be more normal than one would think.

1421 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:03:29am

Actually there is a cached page. Even though Google doesn't put a "Cached" link in the search results, if you type in 'cache:[page URL]' you'll often get the Google cached result.

1422 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:03:40am

re: #1118 palomino

Absurd. Anyone who runs for president has a well developed ego. Clinton had a roguish gleam in his eyes. And W had his swagger. When was the last time we had a president who wasn't in love with himself? Nixon, I guess.

Yes, but Nixon had the self-loathing to deal with, and look how well that turned out.

Bush Sr. has a modest affect.

1423 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:04:35am

re: #1420 cliffster

Unfortunately, it would appear to be more normal than one would think.

It isn't normal elsewhere in the blogosphere for people to feel the need to make "Goodbye cruel blog!--PS Daddy I hate you! PPS Love me, Daddy? Please?" final posts, or post on a stalker blog --for years-- about the butthurt they suffered over being banned from a blog.

Never seen anything like it.

1424 carey94tt  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:06:23am

re: #1375 researchok

Not all.

Charles Johnson Rides Off Into The Sunrise


This link is an excellent summary of how I feel (as many others).

Here is the money quote..."The Right is supposed to be welcoming and fiercely defend the right of the individual to have their own beliefs, whatever they might be.".

1425 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:10:08am

re: #1424 carey94tt

This link is an excellent summary of how I feel (as many others).

Here is the money quote..."The Right is supposed to be welcoming and fiercely defend the right of the individual to have their own beliefs, whatever they might be.".

"I don't agree with you, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" died out looong ago.

1426 Idle Drifter  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:13:08am

re: #1423 iceweasel

re: #1420 cliffster


It isn't normal elsewhere in the blogosphere for people to feel the need to make "Goodbye cruel blog!--PS Daddy I hate you! PPS Love me, Daddy? Please?" final posts, or post on a stalker blog --for years-- about the butthurt they suffered over being banned from a blog.

Never seen anything like it.

It's like a sick game to come on LGF to only be kicked out after a few twisted comments. Is it a crazy right of passage to be finally welcomed as full member in standing at the Hater sites?

1427 carey94tt  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:13:15am

re: #1425 Pepper Fox

"I don't agree with you, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it" died out looong ago.

Sorry, must have missed that bulletin. Oh, and I don't agree with you but feel free to make your case.

1428 Pepper Fox  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:21:27am

re: #1427 carey94tt

Sorry, must have missed that bulletin. Oh, and I don't agree with you but feel free to make your case.

I'm totally for defending the right to say stuff you don't agree with. I'm just saying that philosophy isn't held publicly anymore.

1429 bratwurst  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:24:37am

Nothing like cleaning out the sock drawer!

1430 robdouth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:40:26am

re: #1322 Locker

Sounds like a great idea, but what do you do when the evidence is packaged with an opinion and little room is left for debate, or you're told the debate is over? There's a difference between what you described, which is the left's MO, and what I believe is the vast majority of the right, not the caricature that Charles is painting, that is very sceptacle because of the fact that opinion and evidence are used interchangeably on the left, so while it's inexcusable to manipulate evidence to fit your world view, I don't think it's such a bad thing to be sceptacle of the broad term of "science" and in this case used sometimes around here, when it's completely interlaced with opinion.

Please note I'm not defending creationists. I'm not defending those that ignore evidence glibly. I'm defending those like myself, who believe that even "evidence" should be taken with a grain of salt given that Charles has sited the money flowing from Big Oil and Big Tobacco, but doesn't seem to fault the money flowing from Big Government, which could influence results also. If he has my apologies, but I'm not seeing that post anytime in the last month.

1431 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:46:07am

re: #1401 iceweasel

I wonder why anyone would disagree with this statement, or think that LGF would suddenly shelter people who hate Israel.

And why would anyone think that more traffic to LGF would be a bad thing, and that new posters should be regarded with suspicion?
Very strange.

Ice, to be very honest, I am one of the people who worries about that, which is kind of weird, given that I am a flaming commie by the standard of the old crowd, and still to the left of the norm.

One of the reasons I came to LGF is that I was seekng an online political discussion space that would not periodically go viciously anti-Israel on me. This is hard to find on the liberal side of the woods.

I am enthused about the more diverse and open LGF, but I fear for my sanctuary. I've already had the conversation about how the Shoah wasn't the Palestinian's fauauauault, so why are the Zionists so mean to them, more than a thousand times, sometimes in very threatening and charged circumstances. I really cherish not having to do the groundwork here evey single time.

This is not a reason not to welcome new people. But when folks started wondering about the crowd from Kos coming over, my first thought was "Oh SHIT!" Because there is a reason I could never read Kos.

1432 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:51:07am

re: #1431 SanFranciscoZionist


This is not a reason not to welcome new people. But when folks started wondering about the crowd from Kos coming over, my first thought was "Oh SHIT!" Because there is a reason I could never read Kos.

I thought Kos had kicked out those people? But I don't read Kos.
I can't imagine we'll get many people who won't agree that the existence of Israel and her defence is a moral imperative. But I may well be naive about that.

1433 The Left  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:52:44am

re: #1431 SanFranciscoZionist

I really cherish not having to do the groundwork here evey single time.


I can definitely understand that too!

1434 bunnymud  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:53:18am

re: #32 hanoch

So you look at the Nancy Pelosis, Michael Moores, Al Frankens, Cindy Sheehans, Jimmy Carters and Al Sharptons of the world and you conclude that the left side of the political spectrum is where sanity and moderation exists? I can't understand this.

WHOOPS!!! Get down-voted and called names when you point out the fractured and frayed fringe left for what they are???

I might have been away for a while...but seeing this AND posters that are themselves anti-Semite...I guess I missed the shark

1435 Coracle  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 10:58:59am

re: #1434 bunnymud

Ah, yes, because unlike the Right, the Left, in its entirety is its fringe. I see that now.

1436 middy  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:01:45am

re: #1434 bunnymud

That post is tragically ill-reasoned. That's why it got voted down.

1437 robdouth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:09:45am

re: #1435 Coracle

Actually he said that with those 6 figures as central figures, who average americans probably think of as fringe, he couldn't understand the sentiment. He's not ill-reasoned. Those 6 figures are prime members of the Bernard Goldberg 100 people who are ruining America. It's not surprising to say they represent the fringe. If you are saying they are the mainstream left, then there is very little difference between mainstream and left fringe, and you've proved his point.

1438 Coracle  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:16:28am

re: #1437 robdouth

He's conflated the fringe Left (Sharpton, Moore, Sheehan) with the mainstream Left (I would put Pelosi and Carter on the left side of the left, but not the fringe).

To say that those six represent the mainstream left is as false as saying Buchanan, Bachmann, Inhofe, Palin, and Beck represent the Mainstream Right.

1439 nickzi  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:23:08am

it's strange that so many "conservatives" on here seem to basically agree with Charles, and then refuse to think through the next logical step - i.e how to change and redeem the GOP and other supposedly conservative institutions. Instead, we get the usual weak whining about the "far left" and "radical socialism". This suggests two things: first, a refusal to actually think through what being conservative really means, second, a willful ignorance of what "radical socialism" and so forth would look like. Isn't it time conservatives started being based in reality, rather than peddling the witless nonsense of people like Beck and Limbaugh? Neither of them offers any real conservatism worth the name, but so-called conservatives just repeat the tired slop from two greedy, cynical frauds. Read some history, read some political theory, read some philosophy - and think through what conservatism means, because it has nothing to do with what the GOP is selling now.

1440 robdouth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:29:53am

re: #1438 Coracle

Danced around the Franken one I see, which is funny because before he was elected you would have called him fringe, but now that Democrats have voted for him to be a Senator, does that mean he's mainstream now? Is he any less of a hack than he was before he was senator Hack? Carter is a raving anti-semite, and blames the entirety of the middle east problem on Israel, so again if that is mainstream, there isn't much room to the left of that. Pelosi's a little more of a chameleon, but she owes her vote to the fringe left of San Francisco, even if she herself is a household name.

If you are going to throw out Bachman and Palin, then Carter and Pelosi are far more fringe than those two.

1441 Coracle  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:34:42am

re: #1440 robdouth

If you are going to throw out Bachman and Palin, then Carter and Pelosi are far more fringe than those two.

I wish you were kidding, but I know you're not. Hence the lack of common ground.

I didn't dance around Franken at all. I think he's not fringe at all, either.

1442 robdouth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:43:35am

re: #1439 nickzi

you are using far to broad a brush stroke. Notice, anyone who doesn't agree with Charles is just a shill for Beck, Rush, Palin. I'm sure there are a lot of people who are in that corner and come to run down Charles becasue they are a-holes. But what about those of us, who don't take the extreme tack that Charles does and think that the right is anti-science, or ludicrously think that the right wants to send women back to the stone-ages (I guess they are the Taliban to Charles). Maybe there are some of us who agree that things are bad, but wouldn't use such ridiculous rhetoric, because we don't receive 1K+ emails a day from the fringe that thinks that way, and so we know that the vast majority of those who call themselves "the right" aren't as vociferous as Charles makes them out to be. When you are targeted and treated like shit by the far right and mindless drones, I think you are going to use way to big a paint brush when painting the story of the right.

What about those of us who are somewhat socially conservative. Those of us who don't want creationism taught, and who disagree with abortion, want to make it very rare, but realize that to make it illegal is both impractical and most likely wrong, but want to make those on the other side at least acknowledge that it's a moral and ethical wrong to abort for convenience alone. Is that extreme? I'd think that's rather reasonable, but if I say I disagree with how vehement Charles caraciture of the right is (especially when he talks about how hateful the comments against him are) that I should be labeled as an anti-science, or anti-gov't crank. If I'm suspect of the opinion being peddled as "science" in schools and universities, does that mean I hate evidence and only look at the evidence that supports my worldview? I honestly don't know what to think on AGW, so I try to conserve the best I can, but don't think we should impose restrictions when we still seem to have no idea what's going on. If AGW were the biggest problem, we'd go nuclear, and then when the waste from that was the biggest problem, we'd deal with that. I'd be much more inclined to believe some of this stuff if it were dealt with practically and not with so much drama.

1443 robdouth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 11:57:21am

re: #1441 Coracle

Perhaps I wassilly to even try to measure who is more fringe on one side or the other. I guess that is completely relative to where you are on the spectrum, where you perceive the middle to be, and where you perceive the people to be. However, you are far to dismissive in the way you address the topic. Just a wave of the hand, and a condescending, "I wish you were joking, but I know your not" and that's all it takes, You've internet bested someone without any reason or backup, just by taking a certain tone. Maybe we do lack common ground, and maybe it was a stupid statement to compare who is more fringe, but I will stick by the Franken thing, because he was an Air America host, and the lefts equivalent to Beck, or hannity, or Rush, and now he's mainstream, just because he was elected to the senate? I do have a problem with that, and I don't understand how we can't get common ground on that. I don't think Rush or Beck are mainstream, and I don't think if they were to go get elected in Texas, or Mississippi, or some ultra-red state, that it would make them mainstream.

Also, the posts today seem so smarmy. If you disagree with Charles, you're a hack, insert adjective in front for necessary effect, and there's no debate. Hell there's very little dissent. All the flounces have been justified, because hatefilled rants are unwelcomed, but what about just plain disagreement. Do I get flounced, or is it just easier to be dismissive and condescending. Either way, although the viewpoints are still not similar the tactics of responders, is similar to Kos or Atrios, where they are merciless and condescending to those who disagree. I miss the tone of a couple months ago. Maybe I should just stay away if I don't like it though. My bad for invading your little space of the intraweb.

1444 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:01:21pm

re: #1443 robdouth

Do I get flounced...

Once again, "to flounce" is not a transitive verb nor is it used passively (normally.)

Examples:
"I will flounce"
"I am flouncing"
"I flounced"
"I had flounced"

Only you can flounce yourself.

1445 nickzi  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:06:29pm

robdouth - prove me wrong. What would you do to make the GOP a real conservative party again? Attacking me isn't going to change anything. Put forward a real agenda.

1446 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:08:43pm

re: #1440 robdouth

If you are going to throw out Bachman and Palin, then Carter and Pelosi are far more fringe than those two.

Downding for being completely blind.

1447 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:09:29pm

re: #1437 robdouth

Bernard Goldberg is not credible. Why don't we also ask the Tooth Fairy who's ruining America?

1448 yoshicastmaster  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:22:22pm

i wonder if the loudest most ridiculous voices really represent much, or are just what we hear.

maybe i'm just hoping that america has more sense than glenn beck.

1449 robdouth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:26:16pm

re: #1445 nickzi

Am I supposed to regale you with a master thesis of improvement. This is a response to Charles original post. We may have gotten side-tracked, but to change the subject and put the onus on me when I thought I'd done a pretty good job explaining my disagreement, is a little silly.

Just to help the process along, I will tell you what the Republicans need to do. I don't f-ing know. If the American people want certain things paid for and gauranteed by the government, I don't know what their options are other than to be Democrats-lite and try to slow down the bankruptcy of the country. I don't know where the pulse of America is at, because it seems like more time is spent shouting down a Beck or Rush, then fighting formative legislation that will put us on the hook for a buttload of money, with little more than a promise that it'll work out fine and a wink from Obama. I don't hate the guy, I don't wish him ill, and I want him to be successful, just not with his current legislative agenda. It's hard when you disagree with so much of what a president puts forward to not fall into the habit of being the party of no. However, Do you see the media lining up to interview Steele and other prominent republicans on their ideas? I know for a fact that there are alternative plans by Republicans that aren't even seeing the light of day in the Senate and House, because they don't have the votes to even get them to the floor. It's Republicans fault and is a function of the move to the fringe, but how the hell am I supposed to know how to fix it. I'm some anonymous poster on the internet. If I knew how to fix it, I wouldn't be here, I'd be advising some candidate and raking in money hand over fist.

I wish you'd stick to the very narrow issue I brought up and not gallantly ask me to prove you wrong on some non-sequitir question that doesn't pertain to what the Republicans should do. The issue between us if I'm seeing it right is who is mainstream, who is not, is the entire party just beholden to Rush and Beck, etc. Maybe the establishment of the party is, but I'm saying there are far more people who are fed up, but don't know what to do about it, but don't think the right wants cavewomen, no science, anarchy-type libertarianism, etc. which Charles in his post (on topic you know) said is what they wanted. The only one of those I've dealt with is hearing the socialist meme and hatred of Obama, and I'll go on the record as being wholly against that. The rest is a caricature of the right, that is over the top, and I'll risk sounding psycho-analytical in saying that I think it's because of all the hatred directed at Charles from the over-represented and loud fringe. That doesn't mean that they are as abundant as Charles makes it seem. The fringe on both sides is angry, loud, and usually well funded, so they can seem bigger than they are.

1450 bunnymud  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:40:58pm

To say Carter is "Mainstream" is also a kin to saying Castro is "Mainstream" since they have similar ideals. But believe me, to point out the wrong that Obama is doing to our country is no reason to have a fit and rage quit. Palin isn't going to be president, no one pays attention to Pat, and many know Beck is kooky. But so is John sKerry, Blundering Biden and many many barrels of democrats that are trying to cram this health care crap down our throats saying that the people want it when CLEARLY the majority of American do NOT want it.


I think it was this issue with the climate change notes that pushed Charles to his point. The world gets hot...the world gets cold. No reason Al Gore should line his pockets with the nature of the Earth.

1451 nickzi  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:41:41pm

Robdouth, no need for a master's thesis, and no need for petulance, Simple courtesy and an intelligent response would be much better. So far you don't seem to have anything to say, or any real principles on which your conservatism could be grounded. I hoped you might do better.

1452 robdouth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:42:17pm

re: #1446 WindUpBird

Completely blind? Again, how can you measure who is more fringe. Are you just going by name recognition? Charles himself has documented Jimmy Carter's numerous forays into hardcore anti-semitism. Bachmann is a nobody compared to Pelosi and Carter. I said before I made a mistake saying who is more fringe, but I've been replied to with blind arrogance and no support with the opposite conclusion. At least with Carter I can say, look at his support of people who wish for Jews to be destroyed. That's less fringe than creationism? Say what you want about how stupid Creationism is, at least people aren't actively being killed for it. Other than the faux pas of social conservatism and how egregious it is to you, please enlighten me on what it is that makes Palin more fringe than Carter? let's take it down to a one on one, because although I don't think Palin the statesman that Carter can play himself off as, her views seem far more harmless in terms of what the effects of her beliefs are (silly as they may be.)

1453 freetoken  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 12:43:31pm

re: #1450 bunnymud


I think it was this issue with the climate change notes that pushed Charles to his point. The world gets hot...the world gets cold. No reason Al Gore should line his pockets with the nature of the Earth.

I take it you don't want to know more about it?

1454 robdouth  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 1:05:19pm

re: #1451 nickzi

I'm sorry, but that is complete BS and you know it. We were both discussing the topic at hand. And now when I can't answer a non-sequitir topic you brought up to obfuscate the issue at hand, I don't have any courtesy, intelligence or principal. I can see why you didn't debate me on your dismissiveness, because you did all of it in two sentences, and haven't offered a scrap of evidence yourself. Just condescension coming from your corner. I don't know how I could be more courteous. I haven't been dismissive of your viewpoint (not that you've displayed any viewpoint at all to be dismissed.)

At least I offered evidence to prove or at least argue one point. I find Carter's anti-semitistm, more dangerous, invidious, and yes fringe, than Palin's social conservatism. Even the moreso because Carter has an international stage and the presumed authority of a former president.

As for principles, since you've shown none, and I guess I'm required to do that and post a resume before I'm allowed to politely disagree with Charles, They are pretty simple: Limited government, personal freedoms, personal responsibility. It's how I live my life and it's about as simple as I can make it. I know those idea have been hijacked by Beck to become symbolic of anti-gov't rhetoric, but I just want limited government. Nothing fancy, just the basics.

1455 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:10:05pm
1456 pyrodoctor  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 2:55:42pm

I agree with most of what you said. Not sure I would lump the tea party activities totally in there because the spending is indeed out of control and I'm mad as hell and not going to take it any more.

But especially what pisses me off are the haters and creationists.

1457 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:46:56pm

re: #1456 pyrodoctor

Part of it's the mass hypocrisy. These teabaggers have been asleep for the last 8 years and suddenly they wake up (see the woman in particular at Spectre's town hall).

The particular bile created by the "no taxation with representation" mob are the problem - not the balanced budget crowd.

1458 Buddy Bradley  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:52:50pm

what gets me is the anti-americanism of the Fox News Right. This country faces so many challenges right now, real challenges to its superpower status and world leadership pposition. We need to close ranks and work together.

btw I'd be saying the same thing now if Mccain was president and the left was being hysterical.

1459 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 3:56:31pm
1460 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 4:55:56pm
1461 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 5:02:51pm

re: #1460 jdsherman

does it smell that badly in the sock drawer?

1462 chaim  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 6:01:32pm

wow, i haven't been to this blog in at least 2 years because of all the hate and vitriol i continually found here back then -- against Muslims, Democrats/Liberals, gays, you name it. this evening i saw this post linked on huffington post and couldn't believe my eyes. i never thought i'd say this in a million years -- but good on you, Charles. as a fellow independent, i respect and admire your courage to say this, since many of those you renounce were posters here back in that day (and may still be). i will be back to your site again, after all these years!

1463 doubter4444  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 7:25:56pm

re: #1437 robdouth

Actually he said that with those 6 figures as central figures, who average americans probably think of as fringe, he couldn't understand the sentiment. He's not ill-reasoned. Those 6 figures are prime members of the Bernard Goldberg 100 people who are ruining America. It's not surprising to say they represent the fringe. If you are saying they are the mainstream left, then there is very little difference between mainstream and left fringe, and you've proved his point.

Bernard Goldberg is a douche.
Who the fuck are you kidding.
Tool.

1464 mdr20854  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 8:22:22pm

Since when is protesting fiscal recklessness "anti-government lunacy"?

1465 Timmeh  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:23:00pm

Amen Charles.

1466 Kulhwch  Tue, Dec 1, 2009 9:54:25pm

re: #1278 Slumbering Behemoth

I concurr.  It's the only way to bring the party closer to center and away from the extremeists, I think.  Just my take on it.

}:)     [Dang, but this page is running slow ... ]

1467 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 6:49:16am

re: #1464 mdr20854

when it didn't happen over the previous 8 years when the last presidents supporters cared not enough about rampant borrowing, tax cuts during war and endless pork - if there was the same groundswell (using that term loosely) in the last 8 years it would not be so transparent now.

1468 ThomasLite  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 8:33:37am

re: #1464 mdr20854

Since when is protesting fiscal recklessness "anti-government lunacy"?

mostly depends on how you do it. and how overdone it can be sometimes...

1469 wjlevin  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 10:13:12am

Very well put, Charles. If I may suggest - how about introducing new topics for discussion instead of responding to subjects appearing in the popular media and from within the Republican Party. What should the Agenda of the Right be?

In other words, in addition to your well-thought-out criticism of what's going on on the Right - add in what the Right should be talking about.

One topic that comes to mind is UN Reform - rank by country/region the number of deaths and ask why the UN isn't at all focused on the biggest ones (Congo, Darfur, etc.). Where's the Right on this? Why does Sarah Palin's book tour get more press than the slaughter of millions of people?

Charles - I really appreciate your good work.

Wayne
Toronto, Canada

1470 marxtone  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 1:04:09pm

Excellent list, Charles. I've got my own:
[Link: wp.me...]

Happy Holidays!

1471 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 2:24:05pm
1472 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 2:34:36pm

Yet another long goodbye, that ends up deleted within minutes. I have no idea why these people think I'm going to let their hate-filled goodbye cruel world comments stay posted at LGF.

And this one was a Birther too.

1473 Locker  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 2:39:40pm

re: #1472 Charles

They want your little heart to ache over them leaving. How dare you be so callous?!

/

1474 marxtone  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 2:41:12pm

re: #1472 Charles

Their world is shrinking, with nowhere to go.

1475 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 2:51:18pm

re: #1474 marxtone

...for the Devil sends the Beast with wrath, because he knows the time is short.

1476 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 2:59:33pm
1477 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 3:05:03pm

And another one. This is a form of mental illness.

1478 [deleted]  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 5:20:27pm
1479 Neo_  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 9:19:47pm
1480 Charles Johnson  Wed, Dec 2, 2009 10:37:29pm

And another one. Amazing.

1481 robdouth  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 7:48:17am

re: #1463 doubter4444

Just because you think you are right on an issue, doesn't give you the right to be an asshole. Contribute something to the debate, don't just come in level baseless attacks. At least I offered something as to why I thought Carter was more fringe than Palin. You may not agree, but you should at least offer some reason and some back up, as I did. How am I supposed to know whether Goldberg is a legit contributor or not. I've read his book and it has some very solid critiques in it. I've also seen him interview and he seems measured in his ideas. If this isn't so, offer some evidence, don't just come in, call him a douche and act like everyone knows and those who don't are idiots or tools. I guess this kind of behavior is only egregious if it disagrees with the majority here or it's called "spewing hate" if it's directed specifically at Charles. That's BS, because it should be spewing hate if it's directed at anyone.

1482 Melissa in NorCal  Thu, Dec 3, 2009 4:14:48pm

Thank you Charles. I felt like I was taking crazy pills. Conservatives seem to have warped into the same insanity that the anti-Bushers on the Left did within the last few years. I felt like I hadn't moved to the left, but rather, those people whom I used to have similar political beliefs with went right or down or up, or whatever, but away from me. Pure craziness.

1483 Arthurpoet  Fri, Dec 4, 2009 3:55:08pm

I have been a registered Republican for 25+ years and I have never been more embarrassed in my life at what the Party has become. There are some very real values that the Republican Party once represented, and without them, we are nothing. And these values MUST begin with, respectful honest intelligent thought, or we will become marginalized and dismissed as lunatics. We may score marginal victories in isolated incidents, with the ignorant, but there is absolutely no way we will sway the center (the only real battleground), if we do not represent the values that made this country great. Once upon a time, we, as a nation, as a society, as a culture, as a world community, hailed the Scientific Revolution and the Age of Enlightenment as the savior from autocratic injustice and cultural ignorance, the vestiges of a dark ages that brutally suppressed and categorically denied the most basic of facts and rights that we hold today as obvious and universal ... The world is round ... The sun is the center of this solar system ... The right of freedom ... Human Rights of Equality. This and these are our true cultural heritage!

What does the Republican Party stand for, today ?

What is the Republican Party fighting for, today ?

Please tell me, because if all that it is fighting for is its own survival, at the destruction and betrayal of all of the core values that are at the heart of this nation's noble tradition, then I must question the integrity and worth of the Republican Party's leadership. Either we approach the critical and daunting issues of this age with sane intelligent thought that is representative of a political party that cares about the health of our nation and the best interests of our people (not empty political rhetoric), we will never (again) win any real victory and the Republican Party will go down infamy as the "Party of NO SUBSTANCE!" Purity Test? THAT's the Republican Party Leadership's solution? Please! Do NOT insult our intelligence. Either you step up to the plate and reign in the lunacy, or there is zero chance of retaking anything, much less, even surviving as a shadow of what we once were.

I remember when, over five years ago, LGF used to set the standard for the (conservative) political blogging world that first drove internet presence into the media's consciousness, wherein our informed and thorough commentary was a refreshing source for ongoing and cutting edge news ... and intelligent substantive debate was enjoyed by one and all alike. We were untouchable. And, what is the conservative political blogging world today ... but a shadow of the progressive democratic blogging juggernaut! Why? Because no political blog worth its salt will survive by trying to sell the ignorance and insanity of empty political rhetoric. That dog don't fly!

1484 kickstar1  Sun, Dec 6, 2009 2:59:48pm

I like you Charles and I have liked and read your blog for years now.

That being said I think you are succumbing to some convoluted, weak and muddled logic in your reasoning about why you have 'departed'. You also lump together people and subjects that have little or nothing in common and consequently distort facts.

And that being said I still read your blog. I am not dismissing you as a 'heretic' I just think you are on shaky ground in your reasoning.

I hope you don't just 'delete' me because I disagree with you on some things. And I hope you don't write this off as 'hate speech' because I am challenging you in your reasoning.

Thanks.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Detroit Local Powers First EV Charging Road in North America The road, about a mile from Local 58's hall, uses rubber-coated copper inductive-charging coils buried under the asphalt that transfer power to a receiver pad attached to a car's underbelly, much like how a phone can be charged wirelessly. ...
Backwoods Sleuth
3 days ago
Views: 186 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 4