Creationists Given Academic Credit for Trolling

Science • Views: 5,862

William Dembski, the “intelligent design” creationist who is a professor in philosophy at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas, has some rather interesting requirements for students of his creationism courses — 20% of their final grade comes from having written 10 posts promoting ID on “hostile” websites: Academic Year 2009-2010.

This may explain a few commenters we’ve had at LGF.

Spring 2009

Intelligent Design (SOUTHERN EVANGELICAL SEMINARY #AP 410, 510, and 810; May 11 – 16, 2009)

NEW! THE DUE DATE FOR ALL WORK IN THIS COURSE IS AUGUST 14, 2009. Here’s what you will need to do to wrap things up:

AP410 — This is the undegrad [sic] course. You have three things to do: (1) take the final exam (worth 40% of your grade); (2) write a 3,000-word essay on the theological significance of intelligent design (worth 40% of your grade); (3) provide at least 10 posts defending ID that you’ve made on “hostile” websites, the posts totalling 2,000 words, along with the URLs (i.e., web links) to each post (worth 20% of your grade).

AP510 — This is the masters course. You have four things to do: (1) take the final exam (worth 30% of your grade); (2) write a 1,500- to 2,000-word critical review of Francis Collins’s The Language of God — for instructions, see below (20% of your grade); (3) write a 3,000-word essay on the theological significance of intelligent design (worth 30% of your grade); (4) provide at least 10 posts defending ID that you’ve made on “hostile” websites, the posts totalling 3,000 words, along with the URLs (i.e., web links) to each post (worth 20% of your grade).

That’s far from the only jaw-dropper in Dembski’s syllabus. Students needing extra credit are invited to write an essay explaining how Christians can use the lessons in communist labor activist Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals to advocate for creationism and other fundamentalist objectives.

EXTRA CREDIT: For those who think they need mercy on missed or poorly answered quizzes, please get Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals and write a 750 to 1000 word reflection on lessons to be drawn from that book for Christian apologetics. You need to have spent at least 6 hours carefully reading the book and sign your name to that effect (i.e., your paper must include something like “I have spent at least six uninterrupted hours reading Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals. –Jane Doe”).

But the final exam for the Christian Faith and Science class crosses the line into downright sinister territory, asking students to come up with a 20-year plan to promote theocracy in America:

Trace the connections between Darwinian evolution, eugenics, abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia. Why are materialists so ready to embrace these as a package deal? What view of humanity and reality is required to resist them?

[…]

You are the Templeton Foundation’s new program director and are charged with overseeing its programs and directing its funds. Sketch out a 20-year plan for defeating scientific materialism and the evolutionary worldview it has fostered if you had $50,000,000 per year in current value to do so. What sorts of programs would you institute? How would you spend the money?

(Hat tip: Richard Dawkins.)

Jump to bottom

902 comments
1 brookly red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:13:50pm

wow... just, wow.

2 Erik The Red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:13:50pm

This is a joke. Right?

3 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:14:03pm
EXTRA CREDIT: For those who think they need mercy on missed or poorly answered quizzes, please get Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals and write a 750 to 1000 word reflection on lessons to be drawn from that book for Christian apologetics.

Interesting- I just mentioned yesterday how some on the right are completely blind to Alinsky's tactics when it's coming from the right.

Heh.

4 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:15:12pm
This may explain a few commenters we’ve had at LGF.

I was thinking that too. LGF should be double extra credit, though.

5 Erik The Red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:16:07pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

Interesting- I just mentioned yesterday how some on the right are completely blind to Alinsky's tactics when it's coming from the right.

Heh.

I don't see in his bio anywhere that says he is a right winger.

6 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:16:25pm

good lord...the GOP is dead for me

7 brookly red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:16:26pm

do they give a list of hostile sites?

8 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:16:53pm

re: #4 Sharmuta

Extra points for not getting booted, while hitting all the talking points.

9 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:17:28pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

Interesting- I just mentioned yesterday how some on the right are completely blind to Alinsky's tactics when it's coming from the right.

Heh.

you hit the bulls eye it seems

10 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:17:31pm

Ay, yi, yi!
This cretin is just as insidious and wrong as the lefty Marxism-indoctrinators abounding in the colleges and universities. Sick. Sick and evil.

11 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:17:32pm
4) provide at least 10 posts defending ID that you’ve made on “hostile” websites, the posts totalling 3,000 words, along with the URLs (i.e., web links) to each post (worth 20% of your grade).

This is not intellectual rigor.

12 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:17:49pm

re: #4 Sharmuta

I was thinking that too. LGF should be double extra credit, though.

[deleted] = 0 credit.

:-(

13 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:18:29pm

re: #5 Erik The Red

I don't see in his bio anywhere that says he is a right winger.

You seriously think he's a liberal?

14 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:18:42pm

re: #11 MandyManners

This is not intellectual rigor.

specialized bots on the march...this is a very bad thing

15 swamprat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:19:24pm

How much credit for kidnapping and brainwashing?

16 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:19:25pm

re: #6 albusteve

good lord...the GOP is dead for me

Yup.

I'm gonna five up all of my principles and join the democrats - just because there are a few nuts in the GOP bag.

17 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:19:45pm

re: #12 Racer X

[deleted] = 0 credit.

:-(

Not if you get a screenshot! Then the deletion earns you bonus points. More bonus points if you get banned in one.

18 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:19:47pm

1) Moby.

2) Alinsky.

3) Course credit.

New innovations for ass holes on the right.

Tried, true and old school for the ass holes on the left (like Moby and Alinsky)

19 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:20:28pm
Sketch out a 20-year plan for defeating scientific materialism and the evolutionary worldview it has fostered if you had $50,000,000 per year in current value to do so.

Should that plan have five four-year plans?

20 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:20:31pm

PIOFW

21 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:20:35pm

How would I respond to this?

Trace the connections between Darwinian evolution, eugenics, abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia. Why are materialists so ready to embrace these as a package deal? What view of humanity and reality is required to resist them?

I fall within the category of a materialist that thinks that Darwinian evolution is the correct scientific explanation for the origin of species. Where do they get this idea that we embrace eugenics, abortion, infanticide or euthanasia?

22 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:21:31pm
You are the Templeton Foundation’s new program director and are charged with overseeing its programs and directing its funds. Sketch out a 20-year plan for defeating scientific materialism and the evolutionary worldview it has fostered if you had $50,000,000 per year in current value to do so. What sorts of programs would you institute? How would you spend the money?

Capitalism in action.

23 esch  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:21:39pm
24 Gella  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:21:57pm

this is excessive

25 Erik The Red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:22:06pm

re: #13 Sharmuta

You seriously think he's a liberal?

No, but it is an assumption to say he is a righty.

I may as well go live on Mars. I may just find a party I can vote for there.

26 swamprat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:22:20pm

Extra credit for constructing a coup to overthrow the government and replace it with a religious cabal.

27 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:22:29pm

re: #16 Racer X

Yup.

I'm gonna five up all of my principles and join the democrats - just because there are a few nuts in the GOP bag.

I'm a revolting peasant...the donks can't use me

28 austin_blue  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:22:33pm

WELL! Isn't that spe-shulll?

29 doppelganglander  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:22:57pm

Charles, this could be very helpful for you. If you see an IP address from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, it's an automatic banning. Of course, we'll miss out on some of the fun batting around the poor little troll, but it would be very efficient.

30 davinvalkri  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:23:19pm

Eh? Please tell me this professor isn't serious, or that some administrator can catch wind of this and he doesn't have tenure yet...

31 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:23:22pm

This is an assault on Western Civilization.

32 itellu3times  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:23:25pm

re: #21 Gus 802

How would I respond to this?


I fall within the category of a materialist that thinks that Darwinian evolution is the correct scientific explanation for the origin of species. Where do they get this idea that we embrace eugenics, abortion, infanticide or euthanasia?

Hmm, could it be ... Satan?
/

33 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:24:10pm

re: #26 swamprat

Extra credit for constructing a coup to overthrow the government and replace it with a religious cabal.

That neatly summarizes it.

34 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:24:11pm

Unreal, absolutely unreal.

35 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:24:12pm

repost...

if you dismiss the nirthers, and Paulians, and the religionists, does the GOP have the votes to win elections?...is this town hall dustup helping or hurting the numbers?...if they all gang up and overwhelm the dems in 2012, what kind of party will they be?...will the represent you?...can the vast number of non voting conservatives overtake the extreme right and get back to the three legged stool basics?

36 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:24:16pm

Students are actually paying tuition fees for this ridiculous exercise.
[Link: www.swbts.edu...]

37 itellu3times  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:26:35pm

re: #29 doppelganglander

Charles, this could be very helpful for you. If you see an IP address from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, it's an automatic banning. Of course, we'll miss out on some of the fun batting around the poor little troll, but it would be very efficient.

I dunno, I'd say the little buggers are welcome if Professor D. will just forward an appropriate fee for each, say $100. Even dedicate a thread to them once a quarter.

38 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:26:55pm

re: #29 doppelganglander

Charles, this could be very helpful for you. If you see an IP address from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, it's an automatic banning. Of course, we'll miss out on some of the fun batting around the poor little troll, but it would be very efficient.

Why automatic? Couldn't someone in that school be having doubts about a curriculum which requires one to craft a plan to abolish the First Amendment?

39 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:27:11pm

Whew! Thank goodness those are Onion Headlines Charles.. I was a little worried there...
/Whaaa?

40 RightOnTheLeftCoast  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:27:19pm

re: #35 albusteve

repost...

if you dismiss the nirthers, and Paulians, and the religionists, does the GOP have the votes to win elections?...is this town hall dustup helping or hurting the numbers?...if they all gang up and overwhelm the dems in 2012, what kind of party will they be?...will the represent you?...can the vast number of non voting conservatives overtake the extreme right and get back to the three legged stool basics?

Sadly, with the likely mix resulting from such a patchwork alliance, probably the best we could hope for would be gridlock. Given the alternative if Barry Zero, Pelosi & Reid and their cabal get their way, frankly I think gridlock would be by far the preferable option!

41 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:27:25pm

Charles! Charles Charles Charles! Now you're linking to Richard Dawkins?!?! Why do you hate Christians! This whole subject is boring and nobody cares! You're just like Andrew Sullivan! I hate you, daddy!

42 The Curmudgeon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:27:27pm

That "plan for defeating scientific materialism" is the Discovery Institute's Wedge strategy.

43 austin_blue  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:27:38pm

re: #21 Gus 802

How would I respond to this?

I fall within the category of a materialist that thinks that Darwinian evolution is the correct scientific explanation for the origin of species. Where do they get this idea that we embrace eugenics, abortion, infanticide or euthanasia?

Maybe because your belief marks you as an Evil Secular Humanist who makes baby Jesus cry?

I mean, duh!

///

44 jones  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:28:10pm

Charles,

If you are helping them get credit, shouldn't you get your name on the syllabus, or a fee?

45 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:28:19pm

re: #42 The Curmudgeon

That "plan for defeating scientific materialism" is the Discovery Institute's Wedge strategy.

Yep, he's asking his students to extend the Wedge Strategy and imagine how they could achieve it if they had virtually unlimited funding.

46 Erik The Red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:29:06pm

re: #35 albusteve

repost...

if you dismiss the nirthers, and Paulians, and the religionists, does the GOP have the votes to win elections?...is this town hall dustup helping or hurting the numbers?...if they all gang up and overwhelm the dems in 2012, what kind of party will they be?...will the represent you?...can the vast number of non voting conservatives overtake the extreme right and get back to the three legged stool basics?

I sure hope so.

47 austin_blue  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:30:09pm

re: #38 MandyManners

Why automatic? Couldn't someone in that school be having doubts about a curriculum which requires one to craft a plan to abolish the First Amendment?

Excellent point! Maybe we could turn 'em.

(I'm sorry Perfesseer. They blinded me! With Science! And Logic! It was terrible...)

48 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:30:21pm

re: #43 austin_blue

Maybe because your belief marks you as an Evil Secular Humanist who makes baby Jesus cry?

I mean, duh!

///

Oops, you're right! Nothing I said was true! ;)

I am part of the Evil Secular Humanist Cabal!

//

49 FQ Kafir  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:31:21pm

Charles,

I think your Hat Tip link for Richard Dawkins is faulty.
It should be:
[Link: www.richarddawkins.net...]

50 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:31:35pm

When I click the Richard Dawkins link I get:

Not Found
The requested URL /article,4149,Dembski-Exam,William-A-Dembski—-designinferencecom was not found on this server.

51 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:32:37pm

Thanks -- link is fixed now.

52 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:33:52pm

I think it would be fitting to call it Troll By Fire.

53 swamprat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:34:05pm

re: #35 albusteve

repost...

1if you dismiss the nirthers, and Paulians, and the religionists, does the GOP have the votes to win elections?...2 is this town hall dustup helping or hurting the numbers?...3 if they all gang up and overwhelm the dems in 2012, what kind of party will they be?...will the represent you?...4 can the vast number of non voting conservatives overtake the extreme right and get back to the three legged stool basics?

1 doesn't matter, if we have to prostute ourselves to win, we don't need to win
2 might help if done right...we haven't totally screwed this up yet, but we really tried hard
3 see 1
4 yes, but the bookie won't take those odds

54 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:34:50pm

re: #51 Charles

Thanks -- link is fixed now.

Nice..clear sane thinking on that site..Thanks

55 doppelganglander  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:35:49pm

re: #38 MandyManners

Why automatic? Couldn't someone in that school be having doubts about a curriculum which requires one to craft a plan to abolish the First Amendment?

Good point. Say, wouldn't this be a great time for an open registration?

56 sattv4u2  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:36:01pm

re: #35 albusteve

repost...

if you dismiss the nirthers, and Paulians, and the religionists, does the GOP have the votes to win elections?...is this town hall dustup helping or hurting the numbers?...if they all gang up and overwhelm the dems in 2012, what kind of party will they be?...will the represent you?...can the vast number of non voting conservatives overtake the extreme right and get back to the three legged stool basics?

I answered you in the last thread, but you had already left

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

57 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:36:20pm
What sorts of programs would you institute? How would you spend the money?

First off they would spend a bunch of money finding some mendacious sociopath like Sarah Palin to demonize their opponents and like about "death panels".

Oh, wait...

58 jorline  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:36:23pm

re: #39 HoosierHoops

Whew! Thank goodness those are Onion Headlines Charles.. I was a little worried there...
/Whaaa?

Evening Hoopster...to your point!

Sci-Fi Writer Attributes Everything Mysterious To 'Quantum Flux'

"And, of course, there's something I call quantum flux, which is like the binding force behind everything in the universe. Plus, it can cause time travel. And it's an energy source, too."

Flux the economy
Flux Health Care
Flux ___

59 brookly red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:37:03pm

re: #35 albusteve

repost...

if you dismiss the nirthers, and Paulians, and the religionists, does the GOP have the votes to win elections?...

judging from the last election, (granted there were no nirthers yet) no.

60 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:38:40pm

re: #1 brookly red

wow... just, wow.

They're not even subtle about it.

61 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:38:44pm

re: #56 sattv4u2

I answered you in the last thread, but you had already left

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

yes, read it...good stuff

62 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:38:48pm

Well, what do you expect?

I'm not saying this to be snarky...

I am just saying, why should any dishonest and screwed up thing the Disco jerks do surprise any of us?

63 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:39:29pm

re: #57 Cato the Elder

First off they would spend a bunch of money finding some mendacious sociopath like Sarah Palin to demonize their opponents and like about "death panels".

Oh, wait...

PIMF

...lie about...

64 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:39:31pm

re: #57 Cato the Elder

I think they'd start astroturfing about auditing the Fed.

65 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:39:36pm

Sounds to me like Dembski is actually trolling his own students for ideas, since none of his actually work.

66 swamprat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:40:07pm

re: #53 swamprat

Mut get the cracker crumb from under the

67 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:40:07pm

This explains a WHOLE lot. I strongly suspect one sub-literate ignoramus is earning points towards his "B.S" (Bachelor of Shit) degree by posting on the AGW threads here. In a hostile manner.

/hey, if he could read instructions properly, he'd be getting a proper degree from a proper university, right?

68 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:40:10pm

re: #43 austin_blue

I realize that you used the sarc tags but, really.

69 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:41:11pm

re: #55 doppelganglander

Good point. Say, wouldn't this be a great time for an open registration?

Is Stinky tanned and rested?

70 BignJames  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:41:42pm

re: #55 doppelganglander

Good point. Say, wouldn't this be a great time for an open registration?


sigh

71 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:41:53pm

re: #57 Cato the Elder

First off they would spend a bunch of money finding some mendacious sociopath like Sarah Palin to demonize their opponents and like about "death panels".

Oh, wait...

Sociopath?

72 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:41:59pm

re: #55 doppelganglander

Good point. Say, wouldn't this be a great time for an open registration?

YES! If Charles really loved me I could register HoopsierHoops_Sock_puppet_Help_me_get_a_Masters_degree...
I could like rewrite posts from our Hall of Shame (annefrance etc.) And get dinged into h*ll...
You guys work with me we can march into the prof's class and not even need an apple..
/Future LGF rorating title...I earned my advanced degree at LGF!

73 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:42:38pm

re: #65 Coracle

Sounds to me like Dembski is actually trolling his own students for ideas, since none of his actually work.

I've heard of professors doing that before.

74 Gella  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:42:51pm

re: #72 HoosierHoops

YES! If Charles really loved me I could register HoopsierHoops_Sock_puppet_Help_me_get_a_Masters_de gree...
I could like rewrite posts from our Hall of Shame (annefrance etc.) And get dinged into h*ll...
You guys work with me we can march into the prof's class and not even need an apple..
/Future LGF rorating title...I earned my advanced degree at LGF!


PHd from LGF university??
///

75 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:42:55pm

Ah, here we go. More dirt.

Paige Patterson, president on said Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Stance on Women [in Ministry]:

Patterson has summed up the role of wives in one succinct sentence: "‘You just lead and, honey, I’ll follow.’"

He has also compared female submissiveness to an encounter with a police officer. Although the officer and Patterson would be equal before God, "He is above me,” Patterson said. “God gave him an assignment that affects me and made him a minister of God to correct my evil ways.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

76 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:43:01pm

re: #47 austin_blue

Excellent point! Maybe we could turn 'em.

(I'm sorry Perfesseer. They blinded me! With Science! And Logic! It was terrible...)

"My God! It's full of czars!"

//

77 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:43:11pm

re: #57 Cato the Elder

First off they would spend a bunch of money finding some mendacious sociopath like Sarah Palin to demonize their opponents and like about "death panels".

Oh, wait...

Well, if it were not a concern, Obama would not have urged supporters not to use the words "rationing", would he?

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

78 LoquaciousLady  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:43:19pm

Hi Lizards, I'm a newbie from last night. I would have posted, but one of the little ones was ill.

I guess Dembski is starting to wrap around and found crazyville.

79 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:43:25pm

I really love that new feature!

80 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:43:35pm

re: #75 Gus 802

Paige Patterson, president on of said...

PIMF

81 brookly red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:44:10pm

re: #72 HoosierHoops

it's a degree in theology...

82 jorline  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:44:32pm

re: #78 LoquaciousLady

Hi Lizards, I'm a newbie from last night. I would have posted, but one of the little ones was ill.

I guess Dembski is starting to wrap around and found crazyville.

Welcome LL

83 KingKenrod  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:44:39pm

This story is kind of interesting, but my jaw remains firmly in place and undropped.

This is a private school that prepares students for ministry - it seems a logical part of their training that they would learn how to debate & confront others with their own belief system. The purpose of their education is proselytizing. I'd say the curriculum is on target.

84 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:45:02pm
85 LoquaciousLady  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:46:30pm

re: #82 jorline

Welcome LL

Thanks, I'm a pretty bad typist, but I'm done with lurking.

86 swamprat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:46:45pm

Well frankly, I must applaud Charles' contributions to higher education...
But the annoying little bastards might want to pay him if they're getting college credits for using his time, bandwidth and reputation.

87 BignJames  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:47:07pm

re: #84 buzzsawmonkey

Does someone become a pro-creationist if they come here and are told to go screw themselves?


Interesting concept.

88 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:47:42pm

re: #77 Wendya

Well, if it were not a concern, Obama would not have urged supporters not to use the words "rationing", would he?

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

In interviews, two governors — a Democrat, Christine Gregoire of Washington, and a Republican, Michael Rounds of South Dakota — both said Mr. Obama asked them to talk to members of Congress about their own innovative approaches to health reform. Both said he urged them to be careful about their language.

“I think he said what we have to do is not call it rationing, because clearly there is from H.M.O. days a concern about rationing,” Mr. Rounds said, adding that he sensed Mr. Obama was hoping to have “a bipartisan group of governors working directly with lawmakers to perhaps break a stalemate.”

Ms. Gregoire said the president reminded the governors that “Congress has a bad taste in its mouth from previous experience with managed care,” and suggested they avoid the term.

SNIP

89 jorline  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:47:46pm

re: #85 LoquaciousLady

Thanks, I'm a pretty bad typist, but I'm done with lurking.

Jump in...the water is warm.

90 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:48:04pm

re: #78 LoquaciousLady

Hi Lizards, I'm a newbie from last night. I would have posted, but one of the little ones was ill.

I guess Dembski is starting to wrap around and found crazyville.

WELCOME!

91 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:48:25pm

re: #83 KingKenrod

This story is kind of interesting, but my jaw remains firmly in place and undropped.

This is a private school that prepares students for ministry - it seems a logical part of their training that they would learn how to debate & confront others with their own belief system. The purpose of their education is proselytizing. I'd say the curriculum is on target.

it is...and it sucks...why do they feel the need to debate and confront others?...why don't they mind their own business?

92 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:48:47pm

re: #74 Gella

PHd from LGF university??
///

Call me Dr. McApple..
Fresh..Tasty.Healthy..Colorful
/Fire when Ready United States Seals...
///No! I was only teasing!
LOL Hiya Gella!

93 American Sabra  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:48:52pm

re: #83 KingKenrod

This story is kind of interesting, but my jaw remains firmly in place and undropped.

This is a private school that prepares students for ministry - it seems a logical part of their training that they would learn how to debate & confront others with their own belief system. The purpose of their education is proselytizing. I'd say the curriculum is on target.

Normally I would agree, but then there's this:

...Sketch out a 20-year plan for defeating scientific materialism and the evolutionary worldview it has fostered...

Worldview? Evolution is not a "worldview". It's science. It's factual science. If these guys want to teach their students how to convert others that's fine, but they want to rid the world of science. I mean please. Reminds me of another group of people often talked about round these parts.

94 BignJames  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:49:02pm

re: #84 buzzsawmonkey

Does someone become a pro-creationist if they come here and are told to go screw themselves?


I'd say they're recreationist...just doing it for fun.

95 austin_blue  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:49:04pm

re: #75 Gus 802

Ah, here we go. More dirt.

Paige Patterson, president on said Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Stance on Women [in Ministry]:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

So Patterson thinks *we* work for the *police*? Hmmm...since when did Civil Servant become Civil Master?

96 sattv4u2  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:49:05pm

re: #85 LoquaciousLady

Thanks, I'm a pretty bad typist, but I'm done with lurking.

Don't worry ,, I'm a worse reader!

97 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:49:15pm

White House sez...
The "euthanasia" distortion on help for families (Video)

Glen Beck sides with Palin...
Glenn Beck is a deather (Audio)

98 Gella  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:49:21pm

re: #92 HoosierHoops

Call me Dr. McApple..
Fresh..Tasty.Healthy..Colorful
/Fire when Ready United States Seals...
///No! I was only teasing!
LOL Hiya Gella!

how are ya Hoosier? :)

99 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:49:27pm

It's unfortunate that constructions like this

Trace the connections between Darwinian evolution, eugenics, abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia. Why are materialists so ready to embrace these as a package deal? What view of humanity and reality is required to resist them?


completely obscure the difference between evolutionary biology and social philosophes like Herbert Spencer's 'survival of the fittest' which came out of a total misunderstanding of how evolutionary biology works, and are more akin to animal-breeding or 'intelligent design.'

100 KingKenrod  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:49:31pm

Since we're talking fundies, I'll mention that tomorrow night on HDNet World Report there's going to be a report on the Quiverfull Movement. I know that's been mentioned here before.

[Link: www.hd.net...]

I have no idea if World Report is a reputable show. I've never watched it.

101 lawhawk  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:49:31pm

re: #76 iceweasel

"My God! It's full of czars!"

//

The White House? Or the celestial temple? /

102 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:49:46pm

re: #83 KingKenrod

This story is kind of interesting, but my jaw remains firmly in place and undropped.

This is a private school that prepares students for ministry - it seems a logical part of their training that they would learn how to debate & confront others with their own belief system. The purpose of their education is proselytizing. I'd say the curriculum is on target.

GOOD GRIEF!

Please find other seminaries that instruct their students to figure out a way to take down Western Civilization.

103 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:49:51pm

A demagoguette name of Palin
Could not stop her party from failin'
She'd rant and she'd rave
In street, square or cave
But still her sad comrades kept trailin'.

105 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:50:12pm

re: #88 MandyManners

In interviews, two governors — a Democrat, Christine Gregoire of Washington, and a Republican, Michael Rounds of South Dakota — both said Mr. Obama asked them to talk to members of Congress about their own innovative approaches to health reform. Both said he urged them to be careful about their language.

“I think he said what we have to do is not call it rationing, because clearly there is from H.M.O. days a concern about rationing,” Mr. Rounds said, adding that he sensed Mr. Obama was hoping to have “a bipartisan group of governors working directly with lawmakers to perhaps break a stalemate.”

Ms. Gregoire said the president reminded the governors that “Congress has a bad taste in its mouth from previous experience with managed care,” and suggested they avoid the term.

SNIP

BTW Mandy, I found that article you were looking for earlier. Check your e-mail.

106 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:50:14pm

re: #78 LoquaciousLady

Hi Lizards, I'm a newbie from last night. I would have posted, but one of the little ones was ill.

I guess Dembski is starting to wrap around and found crazyville.

Welcome..Look forward to hearing more from you..

107 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:50:53pm

re: #91 albusteve

it is...and it sucks...why do they feel the need to debate and confront others?...why don't they mind their own business?

If they view their business as saving heathen souls, it's kind of hard to do that if you don't engage the heathens.

108 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:51:14pm
109 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:51:37pm

re: #98 Gella

how are ya Hoosier? :)

Just great..You might not believe this but I'm watching sports and blogging with you fine people.
Hope today finds you well

110 LoquaciousLady  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:51:44pm

I think if more people in my family knew what the ID crowd was up to they'd be more upset. So far, they just go with what the "right" is doing. This actually helps my arguments. Thanks, Charles.

111 sattv4u2  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:52:04pm

Oh goody. Looky the time

12 hours here at work sure passed by nicely thanks to the Lizard Army

Time for the long lonely drive home!

Cya all in the A.M.

112 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:52:08pm

re: #104 Charles

Possibly the craziest article ever posted at Weird Nut Drooly.

He denies our Christianity? Holy shit!

/

113 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:52:10pm
EXTRA CREDIT: For those who think they need mercy on missed or poorly answered quizzes, please get Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals and write a 750 to 1000 word reflection on lessons to be drawn from that book for Christian apologetics.

This really disturbs me because we have been witnessing this on the right as of late, and seen some shameful amounts of apologetics. The "no right-wing extremists" notion, and the cheering of Dr Tiller's murder. The kooks and nirthers and paulbots- they're all playing rules for radicals. I just can't understand why some folks think it's okay for us to adopt these horrible tactics. Maddening.

114 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:52:18pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

White House sez...
The "euthanasia" distortion on help for families (Video)

I might check it out later but for now, anything from the WH that contains the words "reality check" probably does anything but.

115 Gella  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:52:21pm

re: #109 HoosierHoops

Just great..You might not believe this but I'm watching sports and blogging with you fine people.
Hope today finds you well

thats a good way to spend a night :)

116 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:52:30pm

re: #71 MandyManners

Sociopath?

Look it up in the DSM. Then tell me it doesn't fit.

117 BignJames  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:52:38pm

re: #108 buzzsawmonkey

'Nite, gang.

c'ya, buzz

118 lostlakehiker  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:52:46pm

re: #21 Gus 802

How would I respond to this?

"Trace the connections between Darwinian evolution, eugenics, abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia. Why are materialists so ready to embrace these as a package deal? What view of humanity and reality is required to resist them?"

I fall within the category of a materialist that thinks that Darwinian evolution is the correct scientific explanation for the origin of species. Where do they get this idea that we embrace eugenics, abortion, infanticide or euthanasia?

There's other categories. Essentially all materialists understand Darwin's explanation of the origin of species and the descent of man. But there are many others, not materialists, who also understand and accept this as more or less proven.

Eugenics has been practiced since the beginning of time and it continues...that gymn mucker noticed that every last woman he met was unwilling to share genes with him to make a baby. Doh! Abortion as a convenience is new, but orphanages for centuries functioned as abortion mills after the fact. In some nations, mortality in orphanages ran to 98%. And those were formally Christian. None of this is new.

119 jorline  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:53:05pm

Just think...it was 40 years ago.

120 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:53:08pm

re: #95 austin_blue

So Patterson thinks *we* work for the *police*? Hmmm...since when did Civil Servant become Civil Master?

I don't know. I gave up trying to figure these guys out a long time ago. A lot of it is really populist drivel for a specific audience.

121 esch  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:53:13pm

re: #104 Charles

Bleah.

And to think I read WND many years ago.

122 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:53:18pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

White House sez...
The "euthanasia" distortion on help for families (Video)

Glen Beck sides with Palin...
Glenn Beck is a deather (Audio)

But the lady is not screaming, how can I believe her ?/

123 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:53:23pm

re: #112 karmic_inquisitor

He denies our Christianity? Holy shit!

/

I feel so denied. It's detestable.

124 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:53:51pm

re: #116 Cato the Elder

Look it up in the DSM. Then tell me it doesn't fit.

It doesn't. At least, not for Palin.

125 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:54:25pm

re: #114 Wendya

I might check it out later but for now, anything from the WH that contains the words "reality check" probably does anything but.

I just put the link here so the Obama can steal your computer.

126 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:54:32pm

re: #104 Charles

I hope whatever that virus is runs its course quickly.

127 LoquaciousLady  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:54:38pm

I'm wondering where the "Love your neighbor" is in all of this.

128 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:55:26pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

I just put the link here so the Obama can steal your computer.

That will happen after his tax hikes shut my business down.

I do hope you'll shed a tear for my out of work employees.

129 BignJames  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:55:43pm

re: #119 jorline

Just think...it was 40 years ago.

Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play?

130 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:55:44pm

Something to keep us discussing through next year.

Immigration bill this yearn

131 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:56:48pm

re: #104 Charles

Possibly the craziest article ever posted at Weird Nut Drooly.

Oh boy. Did you see the book they're plugging along side this? "The Islamic Antichrist." I'm sure we know who that's all about.

132 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:56:53pm

re: #105 Pvt Bin Jammin

BTW Mandy, I found that article you were looking for earlier. Check your e-mail.

My e-system has been cranky but, I think I have that one already. Thank you, though.

133 Bronco Bama FTW  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:57:26pm

Kind of cool how they are all forced to show their hand in public. Maybe that will help to kill any chance they'd have of sneaking under the radar as a school board member or governor. (Knock wood).

134 Pvt Bin Jammin  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:57:34pm

re: #132 MandyManners

You're very welcome.

135 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:57:38pm

re: #122 avanti

I notice that the right wing blogs are mocking the death threats and potential violence today. That's really going to look bad if something happens.

136 KingKenrod  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:58:19pm

re: #91 albusteve

it is...and it sucks...why do they feel the need to debate and confront others?...why don't they mind their own business?


re: #102 MandyManners

GOOD GRIEF!

Please find other seminaries that instruct their students to figure out a way to take down Western Civilization.

Here's One.
///

137 brookly red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:58:35pm

re: #133 Locker

Kind of cool how they are all forced to show their hand in public. Maybe that will help to kill any chance they'd have of sneaking under the radar as a school board member or governor. (Knock wood).

there in Texas...

138 NelsFree  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:58:56pm

The Core Themes of the Templeton Foundation:

Core Themes
In keeping with Sir John Templeton's intent, his Foundation serves as a philanthropic catalyst for research and discoveries relating to what scientists and philosophers call the Big Questions. We support work at the world's top universities in such fields as theoretical physics, cosmology, evolutionary biology, cognitive science, and social science relating to love, forgiveness, creativity, purpose, and the nature and origin of religious belief. We also seek to stimulate new thinking about wealth creation in the developing world, character education in schools and universities, and programs for cultivating the talents of gifted children. Learn more about the Foundation's "Core Themes."

139 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:59:07pm

re: #116 Cato the Elder

Look it up in the DSM. Then tell me it doesn't fit.

I was married to one. I know all about it.

140 swamprat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 6:59:17pm

Alma Mater

Hail to thee Close Cover Before Striking University!
Acclaim thy Hallowed Halls
We will ne're forsake thy bounties
where e'er our gradepoint falls

though we fry, or hand out flyers
sell used cars, on tires that fail
we'll remember all our teachers
when we're out on bail

141 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:00:24pm

re: #127 LoquaciousLady

I'm wondering where the "Love your neighbor" is in all of this.

Good question.

142 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:00:25pm
143 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:00:28pm

re: #81 brookly red

it's a degree in theology...

It's a small price to pay to add 2 more letters behind your title..In fact...With a few college bound sockpuppets the Title of Dr. Hoopster is within my grasp.

144 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:00:30pm

re: #104 Charles

Possibly the craziest article ever posted at Weird Nut Drooly.

Here's another one they're plugging:

August 2009 – MEDICAL MURDER: Why Obamacare could result in the early deaths of millions of baby boomers

Imagine lying in some government-run hospital, hospice or nursing home many years from now. Imagine languishing unattended for days in soiled sheets, suffering from hunger and thirst, covered with bed sores, your flesh aboil with untreated infections. Imagine living in fear of resentful, underpaid health aides who take out their anger on you and abuse you. And imagine spending your final moments on earth in the company of a government health care worker with a syringe, who injects you with a lethal cocktail...

Mind you I'm no fan of HR 3200 but this stuff is over the top.

145 jorline  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:00:32pm

re: #129 BignJames

Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play?

lmao...I started humming that after my post, but Sgt. Pepper's lyrics...It was 20 years ago today.

146 BignJames  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:00:55pm

re: #140 swamprat


Thought that was Moon Pie High.

147 Bronco Bama FTW  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:01:05pm

re: #137 brookly red

there in Texas...

Haha yea I guess that's true. A great recruiting tool for the Texas gov.

148 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:01:13pm

re: #137 brookly red

Here in Texas, the latest hot education issue is Social Studies:


State Board of Education member Don McLeroy, R-Bryan, is clearly not going to let the Senate’s decision to strip him of his chairmanship relegate him to the back-bench for the debate on social studies standards. This week McLeroy came out swinging on the question of religion’s role in U.S. history. Responding to an open letter to the state board by the American Humanist Association, McLeroy sent the group an essay he wrote way back in 2002 (when social studies textbook were last up for adoption) entitled “The Gift of Medieval Christendom to the World.”


[Link: tfnblog.wordpress.com...]

149 American Sabra  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:01:37pm

re: #104 Charles

Possibly the craziest article ever posted at Weird Nut Drooly.

Just like Oily Teets.

The reason for the concept of natural born citizens is so a country can't just throw you out willy-nilly," Titus told WND. "Your citizenship is in God's sovereign decision-making. You were born of certain parents.

"If you follow that kind of reasoning, Obama cannot be a natural-born citizen, even if he's born in Hawaii," because of his parents, he said. "One was Kenyan and one American."

Aside from that "God's sovereign decision-making" remark, where does it say in the constitution that your parents have to be born in this country to be Pres? Like a dog with a bone those freaks.

150 Erik The Red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:01:58pm

re: #143 HoosierHoops

It's a small price to pay to add 2 more letters behind your title..In fact...With a few college bound sockpuppets the Title of Dr. Hoopster is within my grasp.

I like Don Erik. How many classes does one need to finish for that one?

151 austin_blue  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:02:04pm

re: #133 Locker

Kind of cool how they are all forced to show their hand in public. Maybe that will help to kill any chance they'd have of sneaking under the radar as a school board member or governor. (Knock wood).

Son, this is Texas! Why, I bet you could run someone as crazy as Ron Paul for Congress and get him elected! Oh, wait...

152 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:02:38pm

This is insidious and you can see where much of the bile from the Socons and hard cons in the conservative movement is coming from. Notice this:

(2) write a 1,500- to 2,000-word critical review of Francis Collins’s The Language of God — for instructions, see below (20% of your grade);

For a fifth of their grade they have to attack another Christian, one who believes in evolution and who headed the Human Genome project. Why? Because if Christians can be Christian and believe in Evolution then their Taliban like Takfirism doesn't work so well as a wedge. Any moderate Christians must be eaten first.

153 brookly red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:02:46pm

re: #143 HoosierHoops

It's a small price to pay to add 2 more letters behind your title..In fact...With a few college bound sockpuppets the Title of Dr. Hoopster is within my grasp.

If thats in GYN I'm calling the cops...

154 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:02:49pm

re: #149 American Sabra

Aside from that "God's sovereign decision-making" remark, where does it say in the constitution that your parents have to be born in this country to be Pres? Like a dog with a bone those freaks.

It doesn't, nor does it define natural born citizen.

155 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:03:02pm

re: #136 KingKenrod

Here's One.
///

The founder, Charles Butler was a relative of (both by blood and as an in-law), as well as a business associate of William Butler Ogden, the first mayor of Chicago.

WHERE'S MY FUCKING TIN-FOIL HAT?!

156 LoquaciousLady  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:03:12pm

re: #149 American Sabra

Aside from that "God's sovereign decision-making" remark, where does it say in the constitution that your parents have to be born in this country to be Pres? Like a dog with a bone those freaks.

I guess there was a new SCOTUS decision that we are unaware of.

157 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:03:39pm

re: #116 Cato the Elder

Look it up in the DSM. Then tell me it doesn't fit.

Narcissist, not sociopath. IMO.

(If she really were a sociopath she'd be incapable of some of what she's done. Note though-- Narcissistic Personality Disorder does have significant overlap with APD (sociopathy).)

158 jorline  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:03:54pm

re: #151 austin_blue

Son, this is Texas! Why, I bet you could run someone as crazy as Ron Paul for Congress and get him elected! Oh, wait...

And re-elected...and re-elected...and re-elected...

159 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:05:05pm

re: #157 iceweasel

Narcissist, not sociopath. IMO.

(If she really were a sociopath she'd be incapable of some of what she's done. Note though-- Narcissistic Personality Disorder does have significant overlap with APD (sociopathy).)

don't forget Nazi...and vampire!...hahaha!...you guys crack me up, thanks

160 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:05:10pm

re: #136 KingKenrod

Here's One.
///

Gary Dorrien — Reinhold Niebuhr Professor of Social Ethics

161 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:05:12pm

This pretty much seals the deal and convinces me that DI leadership is one hundred percent hard core dominionist/calvinist. Anyone associated with them is slime.

162 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:05:38pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

I just put the link here so the Obama can steal your computer.

CEILING OBAMA IS WATCHIN U POST ON LGF!

//

163 austin_blue  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:07:26pm

re: #158 jorline

And re-elected...and re-elected...and re-elected...

It helps when you deliver half of your constituents.

164 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:07:32pm

re: #159 albusteve

don't forget Nazi...and vampire!...hahaha!...you guys crack me up, thanks

Were you planning on being a shithead to me for a lot longer, or only an hour?

I was wondering if we could cut all that out and jump straight to the part where you apologise, again, for your behaviour.

165 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:07:56pm

re: #139 MandyManners

I was married to one. I know all about it.

I'm sorry to hear that. Glad you used the word "was"!

166 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:09:01pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

I notice that the right wing blogs are mocking the death threats and potential violence today. That's really going to look bad if something happens.

I'd rather not think about it. If anything happens on either side, with the present atmosphere, all hell could break lose.

167 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:09:12pm

re: #164 iceweasel

Were you planning on being a shithead to me for a lot longer, or only an hour?

I was wondering if we could cut all that out and jump straight to the part where you apologise, again, for your behaviour.

I love it when you correct Cato about Palins mental disorders...you don't have to call me names

168 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:09:18pm

re: #165 Cato the Elder

I'm sorry to hear that. Glad you used the word "was"!

Took me two years and about $85,000.00 in legal fees to get free. I KNOW sociopaths.

169 austin_blue  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:09:45pm

Good night all! Sweet dreams!

170 LoquaciousLady  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:09:57pm

re: #161 Thanos

This pretty much seals the deal and convinces me that DI leadership is one hundred percent hard core dominionist/calvinist. Anyone associated with them is slime.

Know of any good ways to get the word out to the weak minded unaware?

171 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:09:59pm

re: #162 iceweasel

CEILING OBAMA IS WATCHIN U POST ON LGF!

//

Should I go the White House party Weds. Night? Obama keeps calling...The music is going to be great..
Man..he is so insistent...I'm to the point now all calls from the WH go to Voice mail..Who can resist Obama?
/good evening

172 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:10:22pm

re: #167 albusteve

I love it when you correct Cato about Palins mental disorders...you don't have to call me names

I love it when you apologise to me. Again.

173 Salamantis  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:10:23pm

Next, he's gonna require them to read Antonio Gramsci.

174 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:10:28pm

OT -

Started using Chrome today. Nice, clean browser.

175 Mad Al-Jaffee  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:10:36pm

OT - a goat screams like a man:

176 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:10:57pm

re: #167 albusteve

I love it when you correct Cato about Palins mental disorders...you don't have to call me names

Sociopathology and narcissism are not mental disorders. They are personality disorders. Big difference.

177 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:11:10pm

re: #171 HoosierHoops

Should I go the White House party Weds. Night? Obama keeps calling...The music is going to be great..
Man..he is so insistent...I'm to the point now all calls from the WH go to Voice mail..Who can resist Obama?
/good evening

Ain't a party without the Hoopster!

I was hoping you'd take me with you...

178 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:11:30pm

re: #173 Salamantis

Next, he's gonna require them to read Antonio Gramsci.


I wonder what the troll merit badge looks like?

179 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:11:31pm

re: #173 Salamantis

Next, he's gonna require them to read Antonio Gramsci.

ONE GAMILLION UP-DINGS!

180 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:11:56pm

re: #173 Salamantis

Next, he's gonna require them to read Antonio Gramsci.

Fucking brilliant.

181 Salamantis  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:12:23pm

Let's see his ID minions refute THIS:

Show Me the Science
Daniel C. Dennett
[Link: ase.tufts.edu...]

182 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:12:34pm

re: #83 KingKenrod

So you support lieing for Jesus and Rules for radicals?

183 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:13:08pm

re: #178 VioletTiger

I wonder what the troll merit badge looks like?

It depicts the Constitution ripped in half and the American flag in a pile of cinders.

184 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:13:12pm

re: #172 iceweasel

I love it when you apologise to me. Again.

I'll bet you do...I apologize

185 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:13:35pm

re: #182 Thanos

So you support lieing for Jesus and Rules for radicals?

Jesus was the ultimate radical!

186 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:13:38pm

re: #171 HoosierHoops

Should I go the White House party Weds. Night? Obama keeps calling...The music is going to be great..
Man..he is so insistent...I'm to the point now all calls from the WH go to Voice mail..Who can resist Obama?
/good evening

At least you'll get Wagyu beef and be treated to a Cole Porter rendition when he enters the room.

187 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:13:49pm

Any fans of Dominionism in the house? Come on out and try to sell us on the concept.

188 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:13:52pm

re: #173 Salamantis

Next, he's gonna require them to read Antonio Gramsci.

I hope Dembski isn't reading.

189 American Sabra  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:14:54pm

re: #187 jaunte

Any fans of Dominionism in the house? Come on out and try to sell us on the concept.

Maybe a definition would be in order for us... em... non-Dominionism types lol

190 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:15:20pm

Since this is for school- should we have an open house thread for them? Think of the potential feast.

191 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:15:44pm

re: #6 albusteve

good lord...the GOP is dead for me

This seminary professor is the GOP to you?

192 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:15:53pm
193 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:16:12pm

re: #176 MandyManners

Sociopathology and narcissism are not mental disorders. They are personality disorders. Big difference.

what do you call PDS?

194 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:16:32pm

re: #190 Sharmuta

Since this is for school- should we have an open house thread for them? Think of the potential feast.

I am not touching any of the pate. Or, caviar.

195 itellu3times  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:16:38pm

re: #181 Salamantis

Let's see his ID minions refute THIS:

Show Me the Science
Daniel C. Dennett
[Link: ase.tufts.edu...]

I like the aquatic ape theory!

196 brookly red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:16:49pm

re: #187 jaunte

Any fans of Dominionism in the house? Come on out and try to sell us on the concept.

whats wrong with the old people playing dominions in the park?

197 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:16:49pm

re: #191 OldLineTexan

This seminary professor is the GOP to you?

DEER GEEOHPEE,

ACTIVISM. UR DOIN IT WRONG

LUV,
ONE WHO NOES

198 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:16:57pm

re: #191 OldLineTexan

This seminary professor is the GOP to you?

Thank you.

199 Charles Johnson  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:16:59pm
200 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:17:02pm

DembskiDumbski is late to this party.
Surely you don't think this is a creationist/ID/fundamentalist exclusive?
Moonbat lefty profs have been doing it for years, although the requirements are probably much less precise, in the name of doin' your own thang. Extra (street) cred for ACORN externships.

201 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:17:05pm

re: #180 MandyManners

Fucking brilliant.

Keep your friends close; keep your enemies closer.

"Rommel, you magnificent bastard! I read your book!"

/movie Patton

202 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:17:19pm

re: #189 American Sabra

Here's a good definition:

Dominionism & Dominion Theology are derived from Genesis 1:26 of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament):

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, in our likeness and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth and over all the creatures that move along the ground.'" (NIV)

Most Christians interpret this verse as meaning that God gave mankind dominion over the animal kingdom. Dominion theologians believe that that this verse commands Christians to bring all societies, around the world, under the rule of the Word of God.[Link: www.religioustolerance.org...]

203 doppelganglander  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:17:44pm

re: #104 Charles

Possibly the craziest article ever posted at Weird Nut Drooly.


I was doubtful, but this article lives up to its billing.

Herb Titus, a one-time vice presidential candidate considered an expert on the U.S. Constitution, says it probably was up to the electors from the 50 states or members of Congress to make certain President Obama is a "natural born" U.S. citizen.

How could I have possibly overlooked that clause? And where is Deuteronomy referenced in the Constitution? Inquiring minds want to know.

204 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:17:51pm

re: #197 iceweasel

updinged strictly because I love LOLspeak for some unfathomable reason

205 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:17:52pm

re: #191 OldLineTexan

This seminary professor is the GOP to you?

one more drip in the flood...the number of kooks is adding up fast, and the GOP ignores me anyway

206 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:17:59pm

re: #190 Sharmuta

Since this is for school- should we have an open house thread for them? Think of the potential feast.

That could be fun.
I'll bring the wine, (they will probably bring the whine).

207 American Sabra  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:18:21pm

re: #199 Charles

Dominionism.

Ohhh! The GOP! (I kid... I kid... kinda sorta in a way)

208 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:18:23pm

re: #193 albusteve

what do you call PDS?

Nastiness.

Seriously, people with personality disorders can go very, very far. They seem "normal" but, they lack the one thing that makes us human: a conscience.

209 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:18:28pm

re: #196 brookly red

whats wrong with the old people playing dominions in the park?

we proved that the dominion theory was correct in Southeast Asia

/

210 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:19:25pm

re: #205 albusteve

one more drip in the flood...the number of kooks is adding up fast, and the GOP ignores me anyway

Does he hold an office in the party? An elected office? Has he ever even voted, to your knowledge?

211 American Sabra  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:19:35pm

re: #202 jaunte

Sounds like a perversion of the original.

212 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:19:55pm

re: #208 MandyManners

Nastiness.

Seriously, people with personality disorders can go very, very far.


And most end up in Washington.

213 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:20:00pm

re: #201 OldLineTexan

Keep your friends close; keep your enemies closer.

"Rommel, you magnificent bastard! I read your book!"

/movie Patton

I am down-right insulted that you thought I needed to be told which movie that came from.

*mini-flounce*

214 itellu3times  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:20:12pm

[Link: memory-alpha.org...]

The Dominion was a major galactic political power, whose influence was exerted over thousands of planets in the Gamma Quadrant. The Dominion was founded somewhere between ten to two thousand years ago by the Changelings, a species of shapeshifters who henceforth called themselves the Founders.

215 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:20:12pm

re: #176 MandyManners

Sociopathology and narcissism are not mental disorders. They are personality disorders. Big difference.

I was under the impression that PDs are a subset of MDs. What else is personality but a reflection of the mind, whether ordered or disordered?

But then, I'm no expert, being merely crazy.

216 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:20:19pm

re: #199 Charles

Dominionism.

Rushdoony

217 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:20:45pm

re: #177 iceweasel

Ain't a party without the Hoopster!

I was hoping you'd take me with you...

We should have a thread one night of the coolest parties we have even been to...Oh boy...College...
Hope you are well tonight...

218 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:21:52pm

Since we're doing teh crazy:
The MSM has finally bought into the nirth certifiket. Birthers everywhere vindicated... after all, above the fold, BIG headlines. So it must be true!
/so heavy sarc/
[Link: www.globemagazine.com...]

219 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:22:11pm

re: #190 Sharmuta

Since this is for school- should we have an open house thread for them? Think of the potential feast.

Bah, when I was in school we had to go to town hall meetings and beat actual people - we walked uphill both ways IN THE SNOW and we were GRATEFUL! Then the professor would cane us and make us shine his shoes. At home on summer holiday, we were sold into slavery. These kids have it EASY!

/

220 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:22:21pm

There are many who would argue that infants delivered by C-sections are not "natural born" infants.

221 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:22:58pm

re: #213 MandyManners

I am down-right insulted that you thought I needed to be told which movie that came from.

*mini-flounce*

I put that there because I am in no way sure that the real Patton ever said that ... it has been a while since I read his bio or letters.

;)

222 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:23:12pm

re: #219 OldLineTexan

Did you say town hall meetings?!

223 wintercat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:23:16pm

re: #219 OldLineTexan

Bah, when I was in school we had to go to town hall meetings and beat actual people - we walked uphill both ways IN THE SNOW and we were GRATEFUL! Then the professor would cane us and make us shine his shoes. At home on summer holiday, we were sold into slavery. These kids have it EASY!

/

Yeah, well, we didn't have a town hall. We had a shoe box in the middle of the road.
/

224 Salamantis  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:23:31pm

re: #199 Charles

Dominionism.

Another name for it is Christian Reconstructionism:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

225 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:23:35pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

I notice that the right wing blogs are mocking the death threats and potential violence today. That's really going to look bad if something happens.

Something already has. I don't know if you are aware of it, but a black conservative man was beaten by SEIU thugs, who also hurled racial epithets at him.

226 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:23:39pm

re: #216 karmic_inquisitor

Rushdoony

Isn't that that Scottish town that appears only once every 100 years?

/

227 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:23:39pm

re: #210 OldLineTexan

Does he hold an office in the party? An elected office? Has he ever even voted, to your knowledge?

these people are into influence...the GOP is soft and ripe right now, but actually the McCain/Feingold and amnesty thing sealed the deal for me...I'm a Goldwater style conservative...a revolting peasant...people like this and their affiliation with the GOP turn me off

228 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:23:43pm

re: #157 iceweasel

Narcissist, not sociopath. IMO.

(If she really were a sociopath she'd be incapable of some of what she's done. Note though-- Narcissistic Personality Disorder does have significant overlap with APD (sociopathy).)

Why is it that almost every politician these days is so easily diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric or anti-social condition?

229 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:23:54pm

re: #220 MandyManners

There are many who would argue that infants delivered by C-sections are not "natural born" infants.

MacDuff was from his mother's womb untim'ly ripp'd!

230 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:24:16pm

re: #222 Sharmuta

Did you say town hall meetings?!

Why yes, I believe I did.

Do I get extra credit?

/

231 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:24:21pm

re: #215 Cato the Elder

I was under the impression that PDs are a subset of MDs. What else is personality but a reflection of the mind, whether ordered or disordered?

But then, I'm no expert, being merely crazy.

PD's are like everyone else except for one thing: they have no conscience.

Mental illness includes such things as paranoid-schizophrenia and the like.

232 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:24:50pm

re: #199 Charles

Here's the money quote:

Reconstructionists themselves use the word dominionism to refer to their belief that civil government should be controlled by Christians alone and conducted according to Biblical law.

Dominionists are anti-american and against the constitution (they will lie and say they are not but ask them about article six when they say that...) People for years here have taken sever umbrage about comparing Christians to the Taliban, with good reason - during the early years it was seen as moral equivalence. However Dominionists are a cult; like the Taliban they want Religious rule. Their dominionist equivalent of "Shariah law" is extreme Calvinism. Gary North would like to stone Gays, adulterers, and children who disrespect their parents. The most notorious church in the US, Westboro baptist, also subscribes to extreme Calvinism.

233 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:24:52pm

re: #228 Spare O'Lake

Why is it that almost every politician these days is so easily diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric or anti-social condition?

you have to be crazy to want the effing job

234 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:24:56pm

re: #221 OldLineTexan

I put that there because I am in no way sure that the real Patton ever said that ... it has been a while since I read his bio or letters.

;)

ITZ TEH MOVEE!

235 brookly red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:25:32pm

re: #219 OldLineTexan

Bah, when I was in school we had to go to town hall meetings and beat actual people - we walked uphill both ways IN THE SNOW and we were GRATEFUL! Then the professor would cane us and make us shine his shoes. At home on summer holiday, we were sold into slavery. These kids have it EASY!

/

you had snow in Texas?? uh-oh, maybe the world is getting warmer...

236 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:25:35pm

I visited the Dr. this afternoon and he put my leg in a freaking cast! Now I'm clumping along, all I need is an eye patch and a parrot on my shoulder. Arrr.

237 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:25:51pm

re: #232 Thanos

Here's the money quote:


Dominionists are anti-american and against the constitution (they will lie and say they are not but ask them about article six when they say that...) People for years here have taken sever umbrage about comparing Christians to the Taliban, with good reason - during the early years it was seen as moral equivalence. However Dominionists are a cult; like the Taliban they want Religious rule. Their dominionist equivalent of "Shariah law" is extreme Calvinism. Gary North would like to stone Gays, adulterers, and children who disrespect their parents. The most notorious church in the US, Westboro baptist, also subscribes to extreme Calvinism.

and is made up of approximately a dozen inbred basket cases, some with law degrees. a few hundred more and they could have a shadow congress

238 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:26:42pm

re: #236 Alouette

I visited the Dr. this afternoon and he put my leg in a freaking cast! Now I'm clumping along, all I need is an eye patch and a parrot on my shoulder. Arrr.

Hope it heals fast and well for you friend.

239 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:26:56pm

re: #235 brookly red

you had snow in Texas?? uh-oh, maybe the world is getting warmer...

it rarely snows in houston, but it has done so in recent memory on christmas day

my mother was born dec 25 in the midst of an ice storm

240 Digital Display  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:27:12pm

re: #236 Alouette

I visited the Dr. this afternoon and he put my leg in a freaking cast! Now I'm clumping along, all I need is an eye patch and a parrot on my shoulder. Arrr.

Kind Regards...

241 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:27:21pm

re: #229 Alouette

MacDuff was from his mother's womb untim'ly ripp'd!

Wowza!

I did a paper in college on that notion in MacBeth and King Lear, more on the latter.

242 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:27:40pm

OT

The health care bill that everyone is complaining that should be read took me less than 15 seconds to find online just by typing: Read Health Care Bill

I found a pdf of the bill in 2 clicks and downloaded it. Health Care Bill

243 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:28:03pm

re: #223 wintercat

Yeah, well, we didn't have a town hall. We had a shoe box in the middle of the road.
/

I see you are aware of the source of my rant

/give me the secret handshake, Bruce

244 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:28:07pm

At least I get to park in the Blue Zone.

245 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:28:13pm

re: #234 MandyManners

ITZ TEH MOVEE!

Here's a good real Patton quote:

When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag. ... As for the types of comments I make, sometimes I just, By God, get carried away with my own eloquence.

246 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:28:24pm

re: #229 Alouette

...but then there's his twin, McBuff, who was from his mother's womb sublimely ripped...

247 JohnH  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:28:59pm

re: #131 Gus 802

Oh boy. Did you see the book they're plugging along side this? "The Islamic Antichrist." I'm sure we know who that's all about.

I've read it and your assumption is wrong.

248 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:29:39pm

re: #236 Alouette

I visited the Dr. this afternoon and he put my leg in a freaking cast! Now I'm clumping along, all I need is an eye patch and a parrot on my shoulder. Arrr.

Aw, shucks.

((( ((( Alouette))) )))

249 doppelganglander  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:29:42pm

re: #245 jaunte

Here's a good real Patton quote:

When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag. ... As for the types of comments I make, sometimes I just, By God, get carried away with my own eloquence.

That could be Mandy's motto.

250 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:30:15pm

re: #249 doppelganglander

It did seem familiar!

251 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:30:57pm

re: #237 OldLineTexan

and is made up of approximately a dozen inbred basket cases, some with law degrees. a few hundred more and they could have a shadow congress

There are dominionist contingents/cults in almost every large denomination of Christianity in the US. The Orthodox Catholics have them, the regular Catholics have them, the baptists do, and pretty much every LDS church has some. They are infiltrating churches and subverting them. A few years ago church leaders would just Pooh-Pooh this movement, but at the same time you might find Rushdoony's book in their shelf. Now they take it more seriously, and hopefully most are attempting to inoculate against this extreme strain.

252 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:31:04pm

re: #245 jaunte

Here's a good real Patton quote:

When I want my men to remember something important, to really make it stick, I give it to them double dirty. It may not sound nice to some bunch of little old ladies at an afternoon tea party, but it helps my soldiers to remember. You can't run an army without profanity; and it has to be eloquent profanity. An army without profanity couldn't fight its way out of a piss-soaked paper bag. ... As for the types of comments I make, sometimes I just, By God, get carried away with my own eloquence.

I wonder what he'd think of "Oh, go piss up a rope"?

253 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:31:13pm

re: #242 sngnsgt

OT

The health care bill that everyone is complaining that should be read took me less than 15 seconds to find online just by typing: Read Health Care Bill

I found a pdf of the bill in 2 clicks and downloaded it. Health Care Bill

teh obama iz now in ur computer, steeling ur helthcaer

/

254 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:32:01pm

re: #251 Thanos

There are dominionist contingents/cults in almost every large denomination of Christianity in the US. The Orthodox Catholics have them, the regular Catholics have them, the baptists do, and pretty much every LDS church has some. They are infiltrating churches and subverting them. A few years ago church leaders would just Pooh-Pooh this movement, but at the same time you might find Rushdoony's book in their shelf. Now they take it more seriously, and hopefully most are attempting to inoculate against this extreme strain.

my local cult doesn't have that problem

255 wintercat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:32:25pm

re: #243 OldLineTexan
Four Yorkshire Men
(I hope I did this correctly)

256 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:32:52pm

re: #252 MandyManners

I wonder what he'd think of "Oh, go piss up a rope"?

"You! Soldier! Straighten up! Chest out!

WAITAMINUTE!"

/

257 brookly red  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:33:01pm

re: #253 OldLineTexan

teh obama iz now in ur computer, steeling ur helthcaer

/

ha ha ha! I have Vista... it will crash long before he can download it.

258 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:33:14pm

re: #254 OldLineTexan

my local cult doesn't have that problem

stealth...they are coming to get you...you'll know them by their Spiro Agnew masks...

259 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:33:40pm

re: #252 MandyManners

I wonder what he'd think of "Oh, go piss up a rope"?

"Always do everything you ask of those you command."
-- George S. Patton

260 LoquaciousLady  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:33:51pm

re: #242 sngnsgt

OT

The health care bill that everyone is complaining that should be read took me less than 15 seconds to find online just by typing: Read Health Care Bill

I found a pdf of the bill in 2 clicks and downloaded it. Health Care Bill

Only 852 pages? Bummer.

261 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:33:58pm

re: #258 albusteve

stealth...they are coming to get you...you'll know them by their Spiro Agnew masks...

little do they know I am behind them in a Nixon mask ...

262 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:33:59pm

re: #254 OldLineTexan

my local cult doesn't have that problem

Most don't, but it's more than a dozen basket cases as you put it.

263 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:34:20pm

re: #233 OldLineTexan

What truly normal person would have the ego to believe him/herself capable of tackling the huge problems, coupled with the suspension of disbelief that it takes to tell themselves they can take the total invasion of their private lives and the intrusion into the lives of their family, not to mention the inevitable abuse-via-press that is SOP for a major candidacy today? (stop, I know it's a run-on, don't care).
Grandiose personality, depersonalization, narcissm, and magical thinking are just preliminary attributes required to apply.

264 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:34:34pm

re: #231 MandyManners

PD's are like everyone else except for one thing: they have no conscience.

Mental illness includes such things as paranoid-schizophrenia and the like.

Well now we're getting deep into philosophy/theology as well as medicine. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Is lack of a conscience a disorder? The term personality disorder implies that it is. And what would be disordered if not the mind? Like some people can't distinguish between colors - it's a brain deficit. And its inclusion in the DSM seems to say that's what it is.

Or is it both a disorder and a moral failing? The sociopaths I have known certainly seemed morally deficient to me. And the only remedy for people affected by them (my sister was married to a sociopath) seems to be to get the hell away from them.

Is it treatable? Serious question. I don't know.

I do agree with Iceweasel that my diagnosis in the above-referenced case was off. Definitely more a matter of narcissism. Of course a narcissist can be just as devastating to those who trust him or her. In our instance, the voters of Alaska.

265 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:34:45pm

One of the theocracy groups mentioned in the book Monkey Girl is Compass International, with notable members Ken Ham, Alan Keyes and Kirk Cameron. This is a "Christian Nation" typed group pushing folks to indoctrinate their kids with this theocratic nonsense. They're not small, and undoubtedly approve this Dembsky course.

266 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:35:18pm

re: #253 OldLineTexan

teh obama iz now in ur computer, steeling ur helthcaer

/

OH NOES!!!

267 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:35:26pm

re: #259 jaunte

"Always do everything you ask of those you command."
-- George S. Patton

Actually, "Oh, go piss up a rope" is not a command. Neither is telling someone to fuck himself.

268 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:35:35pm

re: #262 Thanos

Most don't, but it's more than a dozen basket cases as you put it.

In the Westboro Church? Really? What, did they marry some more cousins?

No where did I imply or state that "Westboro" = "All Dominionists in the US"

269 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:36:20pm
270 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:36:32pm

re: #260 LoquaciousLady

Only 852 pages? Bummer.

Hey, I'm on page 3, at least I'm trying.

271 JohnH  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:36:59pm

re: #202 jaunte

Here's a good definition:

If you look into it, Dominionism is bipartisan. What drives the Rushdoonys on the right also drives the Jim Wallis and social justice guys on the left.

272 LoquaciousLady  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:37:43pm

re: #270 sngnsgt

Hey, I'm on page 3, at least I'm trying.

I skipped all the definitions pages. Now I'm down to 10 pages left.

273 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:38:14pm

re: #264 Cato the Elder

Well now we're getting deep into philosophy/theology as well as medicine. Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Is lack of a conscience a disorder? The term personality disorder implies that it is. And what would be disordered if not the mind? Like some people can't distinguish between colors - it's a brain deficit. And its inclusion in the DSM seems to say that's what it is.

Or is it both a disorder and a moral failing? The sociopaths I have known certainly seemed morally deficient to me. And the only remedy for people affected by them (my sister was married to a sociopath) seems to be to get the hell away from them.

Is it treatable? Serious question. I don't know.

I do agree with Iceweasel that my diagnosis in the above-referenced case was off. Definitely more a matter of narcissism. Of course a narcissist can be just as devastating to those who trust him or her. In our instance, the voters of Alaska.

One quick point about the notion tha Palin is a narcissist: would a narcissist have carried to term a child who is less than perfect?

As for the rest of your post, I will bow out. I have spent years and years in the bowels of anti-social personality disorder.

274 revobob  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:38:26pm

re: #220 MandyManners

There are many who would argue that infants delivered by C-sections are not "natural born" infants.

MacDuff, for one!

275 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:38:30pm

re: #272 LoquaciousLady

I skipped all the definitions pages. Now I'm down to 10 pages left.

Senator?

276 BARACK THE VOTE  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:39:05pm

re: #253 OldLineTexan

teh obama iz now in ur computer, steeling ur helthcaer

/

I also can't help laughing at LOLcat speak. Upding!

277 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:39:19pm

re: #253 OldLineTexan

teh obama iz now in ur computer, steeling ur helthcaer

/

Lo Five

278 LoquaciousLady  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:39:46pm

re: #275 sngnsgt

Senator?

You got me! I'd better go wash the dishes. Peace out peeps!

279 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:40:02pm

re: #265 Sharmuta

One of the theocracy groups mentioned in the book Monkey Girl is Compass International, with notable members Ken Ham, Alan Keyes and Kirk Cameron. This is a "Christian Nation" typed group pushing folks to indoctrinate their kids with this theocratic nonsense. They're not small, and undoubtedly approve this Dembsky course.

when you say "not small"...what does that mean, roughly?...have they politicized their gig?...if/when they do the GOP will be the vehicle?

280 jantjepietje  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:40:11pm

A great example of science readjusting itself
The term alpha male to describe wolves is obsolete


I'm very much to blame for the term alpha male being used with wolves because I published a book in 1970 labelling them as such and I did that because at that time that was all we knew but since then we learned a lot

That is exactly how science should work

281 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:40:11pm

re: #265 Sharmuta

From their website written by Bill Perkins:

This end-time nation sends diplomats
around the world, is considered “tall and
smooth,” is known worldwide and has lots
of rivers dividing the land.
“Though Babylon should ascend to the heavens.”
Jeremiah 51:53
It seems this nation takes space shots!
That certainly narrows the field of prospective
qualifiers!
So, for those that insist that Babylon
MUST be rebuilt in Iraq to fulfill prophecy,
I submit it doesn’t fit scripture. Iraq
is not bordered on many waters, it is not
the world’s military hammer, it is not full
of wise men, it is not a mingled people
nation, it is not the world’s largest importer,
it is not a new/young nation and certainly
doesn’t take space shots!
This nation, whoever it is, is wiped out
in one hour, apparently by a nuclear attack
soon after Rapture. Would God do that to
America? In a post Rapture scenario, yes,
in a heartbeat!
With the Church gone, and
nothing but liberal non-Believers left, it
makes sense to me! But in the meantime,
God bless America!

282 Scion9  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:41:36pm

The Most Hated Family in America

Part 1 of a Louis Theroux documentary on the Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church. Definitely more than a dozen of them, unfortunately. It's only that about a dozen of them fly around the country protesting 'fags'. I'd assume that the rest of the cult actually has jobs that support the jetsetting bums of the group.

It's a great docu imo. There is definitely some sexual tension between Louis and the Phelps granddaughter. Very sad.

283 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:42:11pm

re: #220 MandyManners

There are many who would argue that infants delivered by C-sections are not "natural born" infants.

Heck yeah it's unnatural. What if the little punk isn't ready to come out yet? I know - it certainly upset me. To hear my mom talk about it I didn't shut up about it for months.

284 jvic  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:42:48pm

re: #253 OldLineTexan

teh obama iz now in ur computer, steeling ur helthcaer

/

You will use the government's antivirus software, or else!

Hey, I intended to make a joke.

shiver

285 pat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:43:07pm

Right out of The MoonBat Educator: Education By The Ignorant. A Guide To Modern Scholastic Instruction.

286 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:43:10pm

re: #263 tradewind

Whoever made up the rule against so-called "run-on sentences" never read Gibbon, Proust, or Joyce, or learned to love the grand sweep of the Homeric metaphor, or basked in the manifold delights of German prose, or watched the sun set on a period by Pericles; he never snoozed to the soporific sonorities of a self-forgetful professor, or turned to his spouse after a blissful half-hour of hearing her drone on while taking in nary a word, and said, "Please go on, dear, I'm fascinated."

And yes. You have to be crazy to want to be chair of a committee, and all the more so to be president.

287 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:43:40pm

Have Russia and the Norks been cosying up to the military of Myanmar?

Sleuths using google earth think they just may have been.

288 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:44:04pm

re: #281 Thanos

yikes!...even liberal non-believers deserve better than that

289 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:44:21pm

re: #282 Scion9

How many?

Two dozen?

Two hundred?

Two thousand?

Do they have a "heavily fortified compound"?

290 SteveC  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:45:48pm

What in the world...?

I'm a Southern Baptist, and I know people who went to Southwestern. Those people are going to get phone calls in the morning, cause SOMEBODY'S gonna explain to me exactly what this has to do with preparing for the ministry.

/Not a thing, IMO

291 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:46:31pm

re: #283 Coracle

A therapist told my Mom that my extreme case of the ' no, I wont's ' as a toddler had its seat in my C-section delivery... since I wasn't ready to be born, I literally dragged my feet in protest as a kid.
/And from crap like that sprang the Rebirthing movement of the NewAgers/.

292 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:46:48pm

re: #273 MandyManners

One quick point about the notion tha Palin is a narcissist: would a narcissist have carried to term a child who is less than perfect?

As for the rest of your post, I will bow out. I have spent years and years in the bowels of anti-social personality disorder.

Yes, if that was the best way to get approval from her peers, which it was in her case. But I'll say no more because her family really is off limits to me, and I honor her choice. It's her political life that I criticize, and references to any putative disorder are references to that only.

And I'm glad all that's over for you. Most sincerely glad.

293 pat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:47:07pm

Obama made one of the most laughably stupid comments about health care ever today on national radio. To paraphrase: "I am not scared of Canadians, but I guess some are." This is his response to the wonderful single payer program Canada has adopted. That level of sophomoric stupidity should be grounds for a review of his academic records.

294 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:47:11pm

re: #287 A Kiwi Infidel

Wow, that'd be such a shock. No one would believe it!
///

295 redneckkahfir  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:47:48pm

re: #76 iceweasel

"My God! It's full of czars!"

//

I don't care who you are, that's funny...LTCG

296 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:47:51pm

re: #293 pat

Obama made one of the most laughably stupid comments about health care ever today on national radio. To paraphrase: "I am not scared of Canadians, but I guess some are." This is his response to the wonderful single payer program Canada has adopted. That level of sophomoric stupidity should be grounds for a review of his academic records.

Not to mention that darn birth certificate.

297 SteveC  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:48:33pm

Ya'll guys 'scuse me... I'm in tears over here. Even Baptists have to pay their credit card bills!

/Excuse me, I just want a seat on the plane, I don't want to buy the whole damn thing!

298 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:48:59pm

re: #291 tradewind

Heh. That's some flaky shite.

299 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:49:44pm

Here's the book DI is asking it's students to criticize:

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

300 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:50:07pm

Amendment IYour text to link...

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

301 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:50:19pm

re: #293 pat

Obama made one of the most laughably stupid comments about health care ever today on national radio. To paraphrase: "I am not scared of Canadians, but I guess some are." This is his response to the wonderful single payer program Canada has adopted. That level of sophomoric stupidity should be grounds for a review of his academic records.

I'm only scared of Canadian snipers.

302 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:50:46pm

re: #282 Scion9

The Most Hated Family in America


[Video]

Part 1 of a Louis Theroux documentary on the Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church. Definitely more than a dozen of them, unfortunately. It's only that about a dozen of them fly around the country protesting 'fags'. I'd assume that the rest of the cult actually has jobs that support the jetsetting bums of the group.

It's a great docu imo. There is definitely some sexual tension between Louis and the Phelps granddaughter. Very sad.

Good to see the Kansans flipping those freaks the bird.

303 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:51:19pm

re: #301 jaunte

I'm only scared of Canadian snipers.

No worries. Just stop running around in your moose antler hat.

304 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:51:50pm

re: #282 Scion9

The Most Hated Family in America

Part 1 of a Louis Theroux documentary on the Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church. Definitely more than a dozen of them, unfortunately. It's only that about a dozen of them fly around the country protesting 'fags'. I'd assume that the rest of the cult actually has jobs that support the jetsetting bums of the group.

It's a great docu imo. There is definitely some sexual tension between Louis and the Phelps granddaughter. Very sad.

At the very least, emotional and mental incest is rampant in that group.

305 jvic  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:53:33pm

I've watched some knock-down-drag-outs at LGF recently.

But the underlying differences are minor compared to the differences between those Lizards and the likes of Dembski.

IMHO that bears keeping in mind.

306 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:53:33pm

re: #242 sngnsgt

OT

The health care bill that everyone is complaining that should be read took me less than 15 seconds to find online just by typing: Read Health Care Bill

I found a pdf of the bill in 2 clicks and downloaded it. Health Care Bill

You'll want to check out the Senate version as well since the Senate rarely every rubber stamps the house on major legislation: [Link: help.senate.gov...]

307 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:53:34pm

re: #285 pat

Right out of The MoonBat Educator: Education By The Ignorant. A Guide To Modern Scholastic Instruction.

He's not ignorant.

[Link: www.startribune.com...]

308 3 wood  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:53:41pm

Good evening:

Pace of Sales Under 'Clunker' Program Has Slowed: GM


Demand for the 'Cash for Clunkers' program has slowed down since the government extended funding for the program, but the auto industry is still improving, General Motor's CEO Fritz Henderson told CNBC Monday.

"The month started out ok, it did slow down a little bit. We expected to have a healthy impact on a positive basis, and that's what we've seen," said Henderson. "I think our sales last month were encouraging, the industry was actually."

Henderson said he is still awaiting data reflecting the how much sales have dropped since the intial boom at the end of July, but said the anecdotal data suggests people were still visiting showrooms.

Maybe they can just throw the money out of hot air balloons and get rid of it that way.

I'm reminded of the commercial that shows a guy running out of his house to catch the garbage truck and throws a big bag of money into the compactor.

309 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:53:47pm

re: #293 pat

Obama made one of the most laughably stupid comments about health care ever today on national radio. To paraphrase: "I am not scared of Canadians, but I guess some are." This is his response to the wonderful single payer program Canada has adopted. That level of sophomoric stupidity should be grounds for a review of his academic records.

I find it funny that Republicans are opposing a single payer system that kills grannies and retarded people. No such proposal exists.

310 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:53:53pm

In the past few days I have developed some empirical evidence about Discos, Nirthers, Obama wants to Euthanize you types, and AGW deniers - and how they are the same kinds of people.

1. There is some sort of hysterical fear and persecution complex that allows them to bolster themselves to "greater resolve" in the face of reason. It allows them to justify the most slimy cons too. Everything is justified because they are fighting a noble crusade. They actually believe that someone evil and in power is out to get them and that the fix is in.

2. It is all a conspiracy. It is not romantic to see yourself as the victim of a hippie, so, they concoct all sorts of one world government coming to take you stuff and put you in a work farm fantasies.

For Nirthers, Deathers and anti AGW types, they see legions of hippie piloted black helicopters coming top get them. Though for AGW deniers, the conspiracy includes sinister scientists meeting in secret cabals.

For Disco guys it is all of the above, but also STAN himself...

3. No amount of evidence will sway them. If you show them the actual bill, or the actual Birth certificate, or the actual fossil and genetic record, or elementary QM that shows that carbon really does absorb IR and get hot (along with photos of chuncks of ice the size of small states breaking off of the poles), it doesn't matter. That would lead to them being less persecuted by the sinister legions of hippies/commies/scientists/secularists who are out to get them.

4. Even pointing out, that while annoying, hippies are frequently too baked to pilot a black helicopter does not seem to help. There is also the issue that people feel betrayed by their own leaders. There is growing recognition that perhaps there were many more lies floating around on the right side of the aisle than previously suspected. This does nott in the least take away from the lies of the other side, but rather it causes some to take a firm stand on absolutes as a way of regaining control.

Think about it. Why get so emotional over these issues? If Obama really was born elsewhere, it would be easy to verify or not. If the caps were not melting, that too would be easy to verify or not. You could read the actual bill, there is no secret crematoria clause. If evolution happened, in the end, it does not preclude belief in G-d.

5. All of these people are fed by the same groups of right wing pundits and politicians, who do not believe the crap themselves (usually) but who are happy to use anything to whip up hysteria in a bid to gain some sort of power. So for all of these issues there is a lot of well funded disinformation to feed the dark fantasies of those worker ants.

I actually hate those types now for being as much of the problem as anything else. I mean Fox, and Rush and Coulter, and much of the GOP and Palin to name names. Lies, distortions and fear can never make a sound basis for good policy. But that is clearly secondary to getting power anyway.

311 placeholder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:54:13pm

re: #273 MandyManners

One quick point about the notion tha Palin is a narcissist: would a narcissist have carried to term a child who is less than perfect?

As for the rest of your post, I will bow out. I have spent years and years in the bowels of anti-social personality disorder.

True sociopaths are quite frightening and very rare. I think the term gets bandied about a lot - these are not simply people who are mean, or seem to care less. Sociopaths function purely based on a set of rules they create. They have no empathy, and no ability to access a wide range of feelings that most people would associate with being human. I do not think they are curable - I think they are missing certain fundamentals that are impossible to "develop" or learn.

Narcissists on the other hand are defined more by their own self-image. So yes, I believe Palin could easily be a narcissist and carry a mentally handicapped baby to term. Narcissists are not about being "perfect" as we define it - they are about creating a self image that they then align their lives to. The key is that the image and the definition are more important to them than anything else. The self-gratification of attaining that image is paramount. If that image includes self-martyrdom or a madonna complex - than the Palin scenario is very easy to imagine.

-PH

312 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:55:18pm

re: #292 Cato the Elder

Yes, if that was the best way to get approval from her peers, which it was in her case.

When was the last time a narcissist ever stepped down from office voluntarily?

313 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:55:31pm

re: #310 ludwigvanquixote

Exactly right.

314 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:55:56pm

Tilting at windmills in their minds...
Rush Limbaugh is a deather (audio)

The GOP's boss falsely claims the House version of the health care reform bill contains mandatory euthanasia:

315 Scion9  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:57:02pm

re: #304 MandyManners

Yeah. I definitely get that vibe. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that things have gone beyond just emotional and mental either. The dedication to grandpappy Phelps to the exclusion of normal relationships with other men among his immediate female family is creepy as shit.

316 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:57:08pm

re: #292 Cato the Elder

Yes, if that was the best way to get approval from her peers, which it was in her case. But I'll say no more because her family really is off limits to me, and I honor her choice. It's her political life that I criticize, and references to any putative disorder are references to that only.

And I'm glad all that's over for you. Most sincerely glad.

The thing is, she could have ended the pregnancy by claiming a spontaneous abortion had taken place if she did not believe in her principles.

I wonder WHEN/WHERE this notion of Sarah Palin is a narcissist first cropped up?

317 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:57:11pm

The amount of misinformation, lies and falsehoods about the heathcare debate are just mind boggling.

318 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:57:31pm

re: #304 MandyManners
I'm not a Baptist, but if I were, I'd try to imagine some way to stop them from even using the name of my church in their sicko road show.
People like that give the whole concept of free speech a black eye... wish there was some legal way to just shut...them.. up. What they do to grieving families is battery, and aggravated.

319 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:57:52pm

re: #292 Cato the Elder

And, thank you for your kind words, Cato.

320 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:58:19pm

re: #293 pat

Obama made one of the most laughably stupid comments about health care ever today on national radio. To paraphrase: "I am not scared of Canadians, but I guess some are." This is his response to the wonderful single payer program Canada has adopted. That level of sophomoric stupidity should be grounds for a review of his academic records.

Link?

321 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:59:03pm

re: #310 ludwigvanquixote

In the past few days I have developed some empirical evidence about Discos, Nirthers, Obama wants to Euthanize you types, and AGW deniers - and how they are the same kinds of people.

1. There is some sort of hysterical fear and persecution complex that allows them to bolster themselves to "greater resolve" in the face of reason. It allows them to justify the most slimy cons too. Everything is justified because they are fighting a noble crusade. They actually believe that someone evil and in power is out to get them and that the fix is in.

2. It is all a conspiracy. It is not romantic to see yourself as the victim of a hippie, so, they concoct all sorts of one world government coming to take you stuff and put you in a work farm fantasies.

For Nirthers, Deathers and anti AGW types, they see legions of hippie piloted black helicopters coming top get them. Though for AGW deniers, the conspiracy includes sinister scientists meeting in secret cabals.

For Disco guys it is all of the above, but also STAN himself...

3. No amount of evidence will sway them. If you show them the actual bill, or the actual Birth certificate, or the actual fossil and genetic record, or elementary QM that shows that carbon really does absorb IR and get hot (along with photos of chuncks of ice the size of small states breaking off of the poles), it doesn't matter. That would lead to them being less persecuted by the sinister legions of hippies/commies/scientists/secularists who are out to get them.

4. Even pointing out, that while annoying, hippies are frequently too baked to pilot a black helicopter does not seem to help. There is also the issue that people feel betrayed by their own leaders. There is growing recognition that perhaps there were many more lies floating around on the right side of the aisle than previously suspected. This does nott in the least take away from the lies of the other side, but rather it causes some to take a firm stand on absolutes as a way of regaining control.

Think about it. Why get so emotional over these issues? If Obama really was born elsewhere, it would be easy to verify or not. If the caps were not melting, that too would be easy to verify or not. You could read the actual bill, there is no secret crematoria clause. If evolution happened, in the end, it does not preclude belief in G-d.

5. All of these people are fed by the same groups of right wing pundits and politicians, who do not believe the crap themselves (usually) but who are happy to use anything to whip up hysteria in a bid to gain some sort of power. So for all of these issues there is a lot of well funded disinformation to feed the dark fantasies of those worker ants.

I actually hate those types now for being as much of the problem as anything else. I mean Fox, and Rush and Coulter, and much of the GOP and Palin to name names. Lies, distortions and fear can never make a sound basis for good policy. But that is clearly secondary to getting power anyway.

While I adore this comment, I must add one factor- communists. They're at the bottom of their own nefarious plots along with hippies and satan.

322 windhorse  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:59:08pm

re: #309 Killgore Trout

...the problem is that we don't know what the "bill" will include... and that there really isn't time to read it... just time enough (before we all die) to sign it into law...

323 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:59:20pm

re: #316 MandyManners

I wonder WHEN/WHERE this notion of Sarah Palin is a narcissist first cropped up?

When people pointed out that Obama exibited certain narcissistic traits. That's a common leftist tactic.

324 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 7:59:56pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

The amount of misinformation, lies and falsehoods about the heathcare debate are just mind boggling.

I know. I just cringe whenever Obama utters them.

325 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:00:27pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

The amount of misinformation, lies and falsehoods about the heathcare debate are just mind boggling.

probably...but the lack of any tort reform sinks it for me...how they can overlook such an obvious corruption means to me that the thing is far to politicized...and what about the pharms donations and the roll over of the AMA?...the thing stinks

326 windhorse  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:00:47pm

re: #322 windhorse

(being a little facetious...)

327 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:01:16pm

re: #322 windhorse

...the problem is that we don't know what the "bill" will include... and that there really isn't time to read it... just time enough (before we all die) to sign it into law...


Bullshit. You can read the proposed bill yourself if you want to. There's plenty of time. It will change as we go along but it's not a secret.

328 jvic  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:01:38pm

re: #311 placeholder

Narcissists on the other hand are defined more by their own self-image. So yes, I believe Palin could easily be a narcissist and carry a mentally handicapped baby to term. Narcissists are not about being "perfect" as we define it - they are about creating a self image that they then align their lives to. The key is that the image and the definition are more important to them than anything else. The self-gratification of attaining that image is paramount. If that image includes self-martyrdom or a madonna complex - than the Palin scenario is very easy to imagine.

I spent years at a start-up run by somebody with a stratospheric IQ. We had competent personnel, plenty of funding, and a cogent business plan, but the organization failed where hundreds of competitors succeeded.

The sentences I bolded are spot on.

329 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:01:53pm

re: #309 Killgore Trout

If you were the parent of a handicapped child and you heard Rahm's brother Dr Evil Emmanuel assert that ' health care resources should be conserved for those who can fully participate in society' just to name one of his Deep Thoughts , you might have a different attitude.
Or not.

330 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:02:21pm

re: #319 MandyManners

sorry Cato...you are a good guy regardless of what they say about you, there is good brew under the foam

331 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:02:27pm

re: #321 Sharmuta

While I adore this comment, I must add one factor- communists. They're at the bottom of their own nefarious plots along with hippies and satan.

I agree and thank you!

I got em!

That would lead to them being less persecuted by the sinister legions of hippies/commies/scientists/secularists who are out to get them.

A more serious point is that as the economy gets messed up, this becomes precisely the environment that Nazis thrive in.

332 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:02:46pm

re: #310 ludwigvanquixote

As someone who has been called an AGW denier (which was quickly compared to Holocaust Denial, so now I am also a Nazi), I say: WRONG.

But thanks for playing!

333 itellu3times  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:02:52pm

Cue the flying pig!

Senators ask Obama to lean on Arab states

A group of 71 senators that includes senior leaders from both parties sent a letter to President Barack Obama on Monday to press Arab states to recommit to peace with Israel.
...
The letter essentially suggests that Obama’s remarks in Cairo, along with recent statements by Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, are not being heeded by Arab nations.

334 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:02:53pm

re: #325 albusteve

Lawyers like to make money. Obama's making a lot of concessions to the Pharmaceutical lobbies now so drug prices probably won't drop much.

335 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:03:17pm

re: #324 Wendya

I know. I just cringe whenever Obama utters them.

You well know that neither the administration nor either party in congress has a lock on spreading misinformation. To single one out in absence of the others is disingenuous.

336 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:03:21pm

Hey Night Lizards! It was another hot one in Near Iowa today.

Whackos to the Left of me Whackos to the Right --again, I see.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

337 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:03:27pm

re: #322 windhorse

...the problem is that we don't know what the "bill" will include... and that there really isn't time to read it... just time enough (before we all die) to sign it into law...

One can start with HR 3200 which is from where it will no doubt evolve. Best strategy is to concentrate on the fiscal and enforcement issues which is what I see to be the most imposing aspect.

All criticism aside I was trying to think of a few aspects of the bill that I find myself in agreement with. One being the mess of "pre existing" conditions and out of pocket insurance costs. Unfortunately there seems to be no interest in at least some tort reform.

338 3 wood  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:03:28pm

Treasurer Fear of Credit Freeze Seen in Cash Hoarding

Two years after credit markets seized up and caused the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, companies are hoarding the most cash in at least a decade.

“Every action we take or contemplate taking is measured by its impact on our balance sheet and liquidity,” Mark Jacobs, the chief executive officer of Houston-based RRI Energy Inc., told analysts and investors on Aug. 3. The company sold its Texas retail electricity business and the Reliant brand name in May, helping triple cash and equivalents from a year earlier to 18 percent of assets, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.

Even as government reports show that the first global recession since World War II may be easing, corporate treasurers are raising cash as fast as they can, wary of losing access to capital. Corporate defaults reached 10.7 percent worldwide in July, the highest since 1991, according to Moody’s Investors Service. Credit markets that started to freeze in August 2007, have now triggered more than $1.5 trillion in writedowns and losses at the world’s biggest financial institutions.

Translation:

1. Corporate treasurers still don't trust the banking system
2. If companies take a risk and make a big profit, there is a chance they might get called in front of congress and publicly lynched on camera. Why subject yourself to that? Just sit on your cash and make some interest at little risk.

339 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:03:34pm

re: #331 ludwigvanquixote

A more serious point is that as the economy gets messed up, this becomes precisely the environment that Nazis thrive in.

Agreed.

340 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:03:40pm

Here's a link to the text of the Advanced Care Section of the house draft of the bill. While the language is a mess, and there are questionable things in it, I don't see anything that says that Euthanasia will be mandatory. It looks more like they are trying to ensure people get counseled on options and means to make their wishes known and legally unassailable, but they sure were clumsy in how they wrote it.

341 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:03:49pm

re: #329 tradewind

Who cares what Rush tells you somebody's brother says. It's all nonsense. Most of you are fighting viciously against something that simply doesn't exist.

342 American Sabra  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:04:12pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

The amount of misinformation, lies and falsehoods about the heathcare debate are just mind boggling.

It's very deliberate.

343 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:04:14pm

re: #312 Wendya

When was the last time a narcissist ever stepped down from office voluntarily?

That's easy. Bright lights, big city. She's convinced she can be national. Bigger fish to fry. "People listen when I talk, and I've got book offers! What's that? My gig here in Buttholia? You're kidding, right?"

Narcissism pure.

344 Neutral President  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:04:14pm
345 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:05:03pm

re: #344 ArchangelMichael

Naked Wingularity.

"We are now approaching the dement horizon."

346 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:05:05pm

re: #344 ArchangelMichael

Naked Wingularity.

Might be best to hold down the tin foil hat by using wingnuts.

//

347 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:05:07pm

re: #286 Cato the Elder

Whoever made up the rule against so-called "run-on sentences" never read Gibbon, Proust, or Joyce, or learned to love the grand sweep of the Homeric metaphor, or basked in the manifold delights of German prose, or watched the sun set on a period by Pericles; he never snoozed to the soporific sonorities of a self-forgetful professor, or turned to his spouse after a blissful half-hour of hearing her drone on while taking in nary a word, and said, "Please go on, dear, I'm fascinated."

And yes. You have to be crazy to want to be chair of a committee, and all the more so to be president.

they never read my work here run-on sentences are good for the soul

348 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:05:20pm

re: #311 placeholder

True sociopaths are quite frightening and very rare. I think the term gets bandied about a lot - these are not simply people who are mean, or seem to care less. Sociopaths function purely based on a set of rules they create. They have no empathy, and no ability to access a wide range of feelings that most people would associate with being human. I do not think they are curable - I think they are missing certain fundamentals that are impossible to "develop" or learn.

Narcissists on the other hand are defined more by their own self-image. So yes, I believe Palin could easily be a narcissist and carry a mentally handicapped baby to term. Narcissists are not about being "perfect" as we define it - they are about creating a self image that they then align their lives to. The key is that the image and the definition are more important to them than anything else. The self-gratification of attaining that image is paramount. If that image includes self-martyrdom or a madonna complex - than the Palin scenario is very easy to imagine.

-PH

Yes, you know sociopaths. That describes DickHead perfectly.

Gonna' stop right there.

349 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:05:27pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

Lawyers like to make money. Obama's making a lot of concessions to the Pharmaceutical lobbies now so drug prices probably won't drop much.

they can be upfront about the deals they cut if they have any merit...defensive med is a very serious issue

350 windhorse  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:05:36pm

...but the bill that's on line isn't the bill that will be up for consideration in September...

351 itellu3times  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:06:13pm

re: #338 3 wood

Treasurer Fear of Credit Freeze Seen in Cash Hoarding

Translation:

1. Corporate treasurers still don't trust the banking system
2. If companies take a risk and make a big profit, there is a chance they might get called in front of congress and publicly lynched on camera. Why subject yourself to that? Just sit on your cash and make some interest at little risk.

I think you misinterpret here.

By "not trusting the banking system", read they cannot float junk now as easily as before.

And, "some interest"? Rates are way low.

Of course, even zero is beter than a loss, if they were to invest it somewhere that cost or lost money.

352 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:06:17pm

re: #315 Scion9

Yeah. I definitely get that vibe. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that things have gone beyond just emotional and mental either. The dedication to grandpappy Phelps to the exclusion of normal relationships with other men among his immediate female family is creepy as shit.

People have escaped.

353 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:06:24pm

re: #345 Cato the Elder

"We are now approaching the dement horizon."

and even light cannot escape the dement horizon.

354 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:06:56pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

The amount of misinformation, lies and falsehoods about the heathcare debate are just mind boggling.

From both sides.

355 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:07:57pm

re: #332 OldLineTexan

As someone who has been called an AGW denier (which was quickly compared to Holocaust Denial, so now I am also a Nazi), I say: WRONG.

But thanks for playing!

OLT, I have never called you a Nazi or thought you were one.

Don't you think that response is a little prickly?

As to being an AGW denier, if you have been following all of the evidence out there, then I seriously question how you can deny it any more than a reasonable person can deny evolution.

I spent two days manning threads and providing up to date links on almost every facet of this issue.

What non-political (as in why Obama is dealing with it poorly, and I think he is too) problems do you have with the science?

356 3 wood  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:08:04pm

re: #337 Gus 802

Unfortunately there seems to be no interest in at least some tort reform.

We also need public disclosure of prices so price shopping and comparing can occur.

No mention of that either.

357 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:08:05pm

re: #318 tradewind

I'm not a Baptist, but if I were, I'd try to imagine some way to stop them from even using the name of my church in their sicko road show.
People like that give the whole concept of free speech a black eye... wish there was some legal way to just shut...them.. up. What they do to grieving families is battery, and aggravated.

They have the right to call themselves whatever they want.

Keep pushing back.

358 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:08:14pm

re: #331 ludwigvanquixote

A more serious point is that as the economy gets messed up, this becomes precisely the environment that Nazis thrive in.

IIRC, the Nazis were perceived by many Germans as salvation. Germany was in bad shape after WWI and the Party got people working again. There was just that little matter of the death camps..

359 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:08:38pm

re: #350 windhorse

...but the bill that's on line isn't the bill that will be up for consideration in September...

That's correct. So, we shouldn't be talking about this because it's just a proposal and not the real bill, so it's a moot point, but if we don't talk about it (as per Onbama's instructions), then everything that is in the proposal will become the bill and then it will be too late to talk about it because the moot proposals will actually be law, and then it will take some sort of constitutional convention to change... my head hurts.

360 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:09:07pm

re: #350 windhorse

...but the bill that's on line isn't the bill that will be up for consideration in September...


If they were smart they would have some good summaries of the major sections available on line and given to the media for discussion and reporting.

361 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:09:18pm

re: #323 Wendya

When people pointed out that Obama exibited certain narcissistic traits. That's a common leftist tactic.

Attention to FCBBHO's NPD issues have been around for a long, long time.

362 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:09:20pm

re: #341 Killgore Trout

I'm not rushing anywhere. Google the clip yourself.
I don't listen to Rush Limbaugh, if that's your oh-so-inciteful insider reference.
But it's interesting that invoking his name has become a talking point for some knee-jerk(s) who make snap judgements.

363 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:09:45pm

re: #317 Killgore Trout

The amount of misinformation, lies and falsehoods about the heathcare debate are just mind boggling.

It reminds me of the crap that starts flying whenever politicians talk about reforming social security. Someone always brings up the "old people eating dog food" cliche.

364 WindHorse  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:09:47pm

re: #359 Walter L. Newton

shhh...

365 Ning The Merciless  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:09:51pm

The saddest thing is that these ass clowns are teaching that the founding fathers were all about this same agenda, that the USA was founded as a "Christian Nation". I don't call university professors "ass clowns" very often but between this guy, Noam Chomsky, and Ward Churchill I can't tell who's the worst. Those three certainly deserve it.

366 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:10:03pm

re: #8 jaunte

Extra points for not getting booted, while hitting all the talking points.

That would be a death-defying feat!

367 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:10:07pm

re: #355 ludwigvanquixote

OLT, I have never called you a Nazi or thought you were one.

Don't you think that response is a little prickly?

As to being an AGW denier, if you have been following all of the evidence out there, then I seriously question how you can deny it any more than a reasonable person can deny evolution.

I spent two days manning threads and providing up to date links on almost every facet of this issue.

What non-political (as in why Obama is dealing with it poorly, and I think he is too) problems do you have with the science?

You? No, not you. Someone else.

And my "problems" with the science may have more to do with the politics than the science.

I'm not being "prickly", either. The poster (well-known) and cronies went straight for the Nazi argument. Sad.

368 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:10:24pm

re: #360 VioletTiger

If they were smart they would have some good summaries of the major sections available on line and given to the media for discussion and reporting.

You would think with all the seniority on the job in Congress that they could do this more fluently.

369 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:10:32pm

re: #340 Thanos

Here's a link to the text of the Advanced Care Section of the house draft of the bill. While the language is a mess, and there are questionable things in it, I don't see anything that says that Euthanasia will be mandatory. It looks more like they are trying to ensure people get counseled on options and means to make their wishes known and legally unassailable, but they sure were clumsy in how they wrote it.

I still have to read the bill(s). One of my questions is how do they plan to implement it uniformly? Is any of it administered thru the States? If one group of regional decision makers thinks in terms of euthanasia, perhaps they will find a way to make it happen legally--assisted-suicide with the patients conscent --or not?

370 Scion9  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:10:32pm

re: #352 MandyManners

People have escaped.

Yeah, I know. I've seen interviews with IIRC one of Phelp's daughters. They make mention of 'the aunt' in the Theroux special I linked above, but I don't recall if he interviews her or not.

371 3 wood  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:10:36pm

re: #351 itellu3times

By "not trusting the banking system", read they cannot float junk now as easily as before.

The don't spend money when the sell junk bonds, they get it.

The whole issue is what are they doing with their cash now.

They are sitting on it in very liquid accounts cause of lack of trust.

372 hous bin pharteen  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:10:57pm

"But the final exam for the Christian Faith and Science class crosses the line into downright sinister territory, asking students to come up with a 20-year plan to promote theocracy in America:"

Do I have to hide under my bed now?
Yeashhh...
What next?
"sinister territory"

Are we going to worry about them flying planes into the WTC. And even ignore the fact its not even there?

Daily Kos Lite

373 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:11:02pm

re: #356 3 wood

We also need public disclosure of prices so price shopping and comparing can occur.

No mention of that either.

For insurance plans? That would be a good thing. Even with doctor charges which is almost not considered in this day and age. I know in my case I can only pay in cash so when I ask "how much for an office visit" they're taken aback. I did have one doctor in the past cut me a deal for what could have been an expensive procedure.

374 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:11:04pm

re: #359 Walter L. Newton

Thank you, Walter, I was utterly unable to phrase my frustratuion with the doublethink involved in this situation.

375 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:11:14pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

Lawyers like to make money. Obama's making a lot of concessions to the Pharmaceutical lobbies now so drug prices probably won't drop much.

He's making concessions?

376 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:11:17pm

re: #369 ggt

Euthanasia won't be mandatory, silly.
You'll just wish you were dead, after languishing with no treatment.

377 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:11:35pm

re: #338 3 wood

Treasurer Fear of Credit Freeze Seen in Cash Hoarding


Translation:

1. Corporate treasurers still don't trust the banking system
2. If companies take a risk and make a big profit, there is a chance they might get called in front of congress and publicly lynched on camera. Why subject yourself to that? Just sit on your cash and make some interest at little risk.

Capitalism is hurting for certain.

378 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:11:54pm

re: #371 3 wood

The whole issue is what are they doing with their cash now.

They are sitting on it in very liquid accounts cause of lack of trust.

Then by all means.. We need a tax on cash!

379 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:12:13pm

re: #358 ggt

IIRC, the Nazis were perceived by many Germans as salvation. Germany was in bad shape after WWI and the Party got people working again. There was just that little matter of the death camps..

Exactly... If the economy tanks, you better believe that the GOP (once completely co-opted by the far right) will get a "make the trains run on time" platform.

Being Jewish, and seeing as how Obama is making it OK for the general populace to hate Israel and by extension Jews, I am not so happy about how that might play.

380 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:12:16pm

Evening lizards!

381 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:12:46pm

re: #286 Cato the Elder

Whoever made up the rule against so-called "run-on sentences" never read Gibbon, Proust, or Joyce, or learned to love the grand sweep of the Homeric metaphor, or basked in the manifold delights of German prose, or watched the sun set on a period by Pericles; he never snoozed to the soporific sonorities of a self-forgetful professor, or turned to his spouse after a blissful half-hour of hearing her drone on while taking in nary a word, and said, "Please go on, dear, I'm fascinated."

And yes. You have to be crazy to want to be chair of a committee, and all the more so to be president.

May we add Faulkner to the list?

382 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:12:49pm

re: #338 3 wood

Treasurer Fear of Credit Freeze Seen in Cash Hoarding

Translation:

1. Corporate treasurers still don't trust the banking system
2. If companies take a risk and make a big profit, there is a chance they might get called in front of congress and publicly lynched on camera. Why subject yourself to that? Just sit on your cash and make some interest at little risk.

It's not about the banking system at all. It's about current economic climate en toto. Most companies are staying cash heavy right now simply to demonstrate to investors that they are able to stay afloat the next two years regardless of what turns the economy takes. They have that cash in warchests, both those warchest funds are in banks.

The quickest way out of this mess would be for the President and Congress to let business's know what tax structure will be like next few years. It's the uncertainty that's stalling everything because the bean counters can't make their usual forecasts with a reasonable degree of certainty without knowing how taxes will change.

383 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:12:56pm

re: #375 Wendya

Yes. It's starting to look like they might drop the public option out of the bill now too. That's the way these things get done.

384 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:13:12pm

re: #367 OldLineTexan

fair enough

385 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:13:22pm

re: #374 OldLineTexan

Thank you, Walter, I was utterly unable to phrase my frustratuion with the doublethink involved in this situation.

I'm glad that worked for you, I'm not sure what I said.

386 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:13:28pm

re: #369 ggt

I still have to read the bill(s). One of my questions is how do they plan to implement it uniformly? Is any of it administered thru the States? If one group of regional decision makers thinks in terms of euthanasia, perhaps they will find a way to make it happen legally--assisted-suicide with the patients conscent --or not?

I think in the bill there is a section that defers to state laws.

387 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:13:34pm

re: #380 NJDhockeyfan

Evening, NJD.

388 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:13:47pm

re: #355 ludwigvanquixote

As to being an AGW denier, if you have been following all of the evidence out there, then I seriously question how you can deny it any more than a reasonable person can deny evolution.

I figured the left would eventually compare a disbelief in the idea that mankind is catastrophically driving up world temperatures to a disbelief in evolution. That's their M.O.

"We think", "May" and "probably" do not constitute solid evidence in my book. That's not a bad thing.

389 3 wood  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:14:26pm

The Euro is being dumped.
Yen Rises a Second Day on Signs European Slump to Be Prolonged


The yen rose for a second day against the euro on speculation Europe’s financial turmoil will be prolonged after Standard & Poor’s cut the credit ratings of Estonia and Latvia.

The yen strengthened versus all of the 16 major currencies after S&P also said it may lower Lithuania’s BBB long-term sovereign debt rating, boosting demand for safer assets. The euro traded near a one-week low versus the dollar before a German report economists said will show wholesale prices fell for a ninth month, giving the European Central Bank more reason to keep borrowing costs low.

“The European economy is facing a variety of problems, especially Eastern Europe,” said Kyohei Morita, chief economist at Barclays Capital in Tokyo. “This may give the foreign- exchange market the motivation to be driven by the search for safety” offered by the dollar and the yen, he said.

The dollar jumped a bit too, but don't bet the ranch that the dollar will strengthen much longer.

390 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:14:44pm

re: #383 Killgore Trout

Yes. It's starting to look like they might drop the public option out of the bill now too. That's the way these things get done.

do you think the town hall dust up had any influence with that decision?

391 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:14:49pm

re: #385 Walter L. Newton

I'm glad that worked for you, I'm not sure what I said.

I'm a 1554 into my cups (cheers, Cato), so it may be that the Muse interpreted for me ... or perhaps, as a deluded Conservative near-Nazi, I only read what I wanted to read.

/

392 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:15:00pm

Help me understand something.

I have seen several Lizards linking to Huffpo or KOS lately to give examples of those crazy Right-Wing conservatives. Huffpo has one nugget of truth in a pile of bullshit and they are held up as an accurate reliable source to mock the right. Same with KOS.

Rush or Hannity or whoever may have one nugget of bullshit in a pile of truth, yet they are dismissed out of hand.

Why the double standard?

393 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:15:05pm
394 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:15:21pm

Reminder: Skywatchers set for meteor shower

Peaks on Wednesday but viewing should be good all week.

395 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:15:23pm

re: #359 Walter L. Newton

That's correct. So, we shouldn't be talking about this because it's just a proposal and not the real bill, so it's a moot point, but if we don't talk about it (as per Onbama's instructions), then everything that is in the proposal will become the bill and then it will be too late to talk about it because the moot proposals will actually be law, and then it will take some sort of constitutional convention to change... my head hurts.

You may have to lie down with a wet washcloth on your forehead. It sometimes works for me.

396 3 wood  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:15:30pm

re: #373 Gus 802

I did have one doctor in the past cut me a deal for what could have been an expensive procedure.

An easy way to price shop prescriptions would be a good tool for containing costs too.

397 Scion9  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:15:39pm

I've was skimming a thread earlier today, where I thought it was beyond the pale to compare our political opposition to Nazis. At least it was beyond the pale for 'teabaggers' to hold up signs comparing Obama policies to Nazism anyway. Is it ok to basically call the GOP Nazis, in this thread?

398 SteveC  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:16:01pm

re: #376 tradewind

Euthanasia won't be mandatory, silly.
You'll just wish you were dead, after languishing with no treatment.

And that is the way I want to go - my heart just seize up, blow a gasket, whatever you wanna call it, and let me be dead before my face hits the floor. I have this fear that my CHF just gets worse and worse and I spend months lying in a bed somewhere, gasping for air.

399 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:16:09pm

re: #397 Scion9

I've was skimming a thread earlier today, where I thought it was beyond the pale to compare our political opposition to Nazis. At least it was beyond the pale for 'teabaggers' to hold up signs comparing Obama policies to Nazism anyway. Is it ok to basically call the GOP Nazis, in this thread?

Why, yes, of course it is.

400 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:16:28pm

re: #392 Racer X

Sometimes the bullshit smells fresher just because it's different bullshit.

401 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:16:39pm

re: #306 Wendya

You'll want to check out the Senate version as well since the Senate rarely every rubber stamps the house on major legislation: [Link: help.senate.gov...]

Thanks for the link. I have Epilepsy and I am on disability. I recently won my disability case. I have medicare part A & B. Where does this put me under Barry-care?

(I know, read the bill)

402 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:16:42pm

re: #383 Killgore Trout

Yes. It's starting to look like they might drop the public option out of the bill now too. That's the way these things get done.

And, I wonder why they are doing that? Could it have anything to do with the loud outbursts at "town hall" forums, loud outbursts by conservatives who were exercising their freedom of speech, "getting in their face" and not letting the socialists shut down the democratic process of vocally standing up for what you know is right?

Nope, couldn't have been that.
/

403 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:16:42pm

re: #397 Scion9

I've was skimming a thread earlier today, where I thought it was beyond the pale to compare our political opposition to Nazis. At least it was beyond the pale for 'teabaggers' to hold up signs comparing Obama policies to Nazism anyway. Is it ok to basically call the GOP Nazis, in this thread?

yes

404 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:16:44pm

re: #379 ludwigvanquixote

Exactly... If the economy tanks, you better believe that the GOP (once completely co-opted by the far right) will get a "make the trains run on time" platform.

Being Jewish, and seeing as how Obama is making it OK for the general populace to hate Israel and by extension Jews, I am not so happy about how that might play.

I think both parties are trying (in their own way) to give that kind of impression --only one wants to include the free-market --so it seems less socialist.

IMHO, until individuals (en masse) stop expecting the gubernet to solve their problems, will will see more of the same. It's all about Power.

405 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:16:47pm

re: #379 ludwigvanquixote

Exactly... If the economy tanks, you better believe that the GOP (once completely co-opted by the far right) will get a "make the trains run on time" platform.

Being Jewish, and seeing as how Obama is making it OK for the general populace to hate Israel and by extension Jews, I am not so happy about how that might play.

I'm sorry for being dense. Would you please explain this some more?

406 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:16:50pm

re: #398 SteveC

And that is the way I want to go - my heart just seize up, blow a gasket, whatever you wanna call it, and let me be dead before my face hits the floor. I have this fear that my CHF just gets worse and worse and I spend months lying in a bed somewhere, gasping for air.

I want to be shot at the age of 99 by the jeaolous husband of a 19 year-old beauty queen.

/

407 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:17:15pm

re: #394 Killgore Trout

Reminder: Skywatchers set for meteor shower

Peaks on Wednesday but viewing should be good all week.

Thanks for the reminder. So busy, I almost forgot about these.

408 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:17:18pm

re: #390 albusteve

do you think the town hall dust up had any influence with that decision?

No. It's a concession to the Blue Dogs. Lunatics throwing tantrums at town halls doesn't effect anything. No Republicans are going to vote for the bill anyways so it doesn't make any sense to give then concessions.

409 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:17:23pm

re: #387 Silvergirl

Evening, NJD.

I'm melting in this heat wave.

410 SteveC  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:17:44pm

re: #401 sngnsgt

Thanks for the link. I have Epilepsy and I am on disability. I recently won my disability case. I have medicare part A & B. Where does this put me under Barry-care?

(I know, read the bill)

same place as me: right behind the eight ball!

411 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:17:46pm

re: #383 Killgore Trout

Yes. It's starting to look like they might drop the public option out of the bill now too. That's the way these things get done.

So the inability to destroy and drive private insurers out of the market is seen as a concession? Well, poor, poor Obama.

412 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:18:05pm

re: #405 Silvergirl

I'm sorry for being dense. Would you please explain this some more?

Translation: If the economy tanks, Republicans will gain power in the same way Mussolini did in Italy and then become Nazis.

413 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:18:06pm
414 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:18:23pm

re: #323 Wendya
You got that right...and it's nothing new..

[Link: firstread.msnbc.msn.com...]

415 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:18:30pm

re: #407 VioletTiger

I almost forgot too. Sun going down reminded me.

416 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:19:21pm

re: #411 Wendya

Yup, it might actually end up being a good bill when they get done with it.

417 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:19:27pm

re: #408 Killgore Trout

No. It's a concession to the Blue Dogs. Lunatics throwing tantrums at town halls doesn't effect anything. No Republicans are going to vote for the bill anyways so it doesn't make any sense to give then concessions.

Pelosi would eat the blue dogs for lunch if she could...where do you think their leverage comes from anyway?

418 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:19:32pm

CNN says U.S. taught lesson by Muslims on 9/11

“9/11 taught the U.S. that it ignores rising Muslim resentment at its own peril.” ~ Christiane Amanpour, CNN resident dhimmi

419 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:19:33pm

re: #412 OldLineTexan

Translation: If the economy tanks, Republicans will gain power in the same way Mussolini did in Italy and then become Nazis.

That must explain my inexplicable desire to do PASTA! PASTA! PASTA!

420 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:19:38pm

I am sure to get little respect for my position on this, but I have very little interest in reading the proposed bill. I oppose it on its face.

The United States government must not be usurping private enterprise, whether it be banks, cars, insurance companies or what have you.

The US government can provide rules and regulations to insure a fair playing field. Beyond that it simply becomes the epitamy of a trust system that was supposedly busted by T.R. a long time ago.

The Feds intentions are to simply provide competition to private enterprise?

Sure, sure, sure...

Go ahead folks, debate the detail - and prepare yourself to eat the final product.

And no, I don't fear Canadians Mr. President, you dope.

Somebody please report me before I get more out of line.

421 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:19:54pm

re: #388 Wendya

I figured the left would eventually compare a disbelief in the idea that mankind is catastrophically driving up world temperatures to a disbelief in evolution. That's their M.O.

"We think", "May" and "probably" do not constitute solid evidence in my book. That's not a bad thing.

My main problem with the climate change debate is the incredible amount of money people are making espousing it. There have been numerous reports of algore's income rise since taking the issue to heart.

It smells like snake oil to me. Too much emotion and hype involved for me to take either side seriously.

422 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:20:01pm

re: #408 Killgore Trout

No. It's a concession to the Blue Dogs. Lunatics throwing tantrums at town halls doesn't effect anything. No Republicans are going to vote for the bill anyways so it doesn't make any sense to give then concessions.

Why are people so freaked out over them?

423 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:20:03pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

Lawyers like to make money. Obama's making a lot of concessions to the Pharmaceutical lobbies now so drug prices probably won't drop much.

Pharma is putting in 150 million to campaign for Obamacare from what I'm reading. More than McCain spent on his whole campaign last year. Robert Reich of all people is livid about this and is saying that this is threatening democracy.

424 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:20:37pm

re: #398 SteveC

I've read that there is new and promising treatment for that, and I wish you good luck/health.

425 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:20:40pm

re: #422 Racer X

Why are people so freaked out over them?

Because you can only beat so many and still keep it quiet.

Silly.

426 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:20:42pm

re: #401 sngnsgt

Thanks for the link. I have Epilepsy and I am on disability. I recently won my disability case. I have medicare part A & B. Where does this put me under Barry-care?

(I know, read the bill)

I don't know for sure. They're supposed to leave Medicare alone but there has been talk of cutting back their funding. It may help you with gap coverage.

427 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:20:47pm

re: #416 Killgore Trout

Yup, it might actually end up being a good bill when they WE get done with it.

THIS IS OUR BILL. THIS IS OUR CONGRESS. THIS IS OUR NATION.

428 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:20:55pm

re: #410 SteveC

same place as me: right behind the eight ball!

You and me both, my Medicare card showed up in the mail today, does this (I hope) Grandfather me in before Barry-care?

429 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:21:00pm

re: #416 Killgore Trout

Yup, it might actually end up being a good bill when they get done with it.

So, it wasn't a good bill when they first tried to cram it down our throats?

430 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:21:16pm

Craig Ferguson has it all figured out.

Seriously. Watch this now.

Not political at all (unless poking fun at Miley Cyrus is against your party platform).

431 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:21:21pm

re: #423 Pianobuff

Pharma is putting in 150 million to campaign for Obamacare from what I'm reading. More than McCain spent on his whole campaign last year. Robert Reich of all people is livid about this and is saying that this is threatening democracy.

And if One-Third Reich is upset, I suggest sleeping with one eye open.

432 Scion9  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:21:27pm

re: #416 Killgore Trout

I thought Obama promised to veto anything without a public option? That still the case as far as we know?

433 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:22:16pm

re: #399 OldLineTexan

Why, yes, of course it is.

Godwin's Law prevails?

434 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:22:17pm

I don't hear the trolls. I'm in my internet happy box.

435 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:22:19pm

re: #397 Scion9

I've was skimming a thread earlier today, where I thought it was beyond the pale to compare our political opposition to Nazis. At least it was beyond the pale for 'teabaggers' to hold up signs comparing Obama policies to Nazism anyway. Is it ok to basically call the GOP Nazis, in this thread?

The Nazi comparison is getting about as old and worn as the racist accusation. You hurl words like this around often enough and they rapidly lose their meaning and impact.
There are real Nazis and real racists. I'd like to see the words used where they truly apply.

436 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:22:40pm

re: #343 Cato the Elder

That's easy. Bright lights, big city. She's convinced she can be national. Bigger fish to fry. "People listen when I talk, and I've got book offers! What's that? My gig here in Buttholia? You're kidding, right?"

Narcissism pure.

Now who could this be?

In spite of having said earlier today that you have no printable words fit to describe the utter moral contempt you feel for that filthy demagogue, you can't be accused of not trying.

437 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:22:53pm

re: #433 ggt

Godwin's Law prevails?

That would imply some sort of single-standard.

Why is everyone so silly tonight?

/

438 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:22:55pm

re: #409 NJDhockeyfan

I'm melting in this heat wave.

We've been pretty lucky this summer. This is the first real heat and humidity.

439 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:23:11pm

re: #421 ggt

My main problem with the climate change debate is the incredible amount of money people are making espousing it. There have been numerous reports of algore's income rise since taking the issue to heart.

It smells like snake oil to me. Too much emotion and hype involved for me to take either side seriously.

Honest question: Do you believe any researcher would receive/continue to receive federal dollars for anti-AGW research?

Researchers know which side their bread is buttered on.

440 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:23:21pm

re: #408 Killgore Trout

No. It's a concession to the Blue Dogs. Lunatics throwing tantrums at town halls doesn't effect anything. No Republicans are going to vote for the bill anyways so it doesn't make any sense to give then concessions.

Umm... aren't the Blue Dogs getting a lot of heat from their constituents, including at venues like town halls (the non-rowdy ones as well as the more boisterous)?

441 hopperandadropper  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:23:25pm

re: #45 Charles

Clearly we need to devise a countervailing Wedgie Strategy.

On another note, I take it when Dembski gets sick he refuses all treatments generated with the aid of scientific materialism?

442 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:23:31pm

This is one of my favorite sections of the proposal (which is not a bill, which shouldn't be discussed since it's not a bill, but it will be a bill if we don't talk about it).

‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
19 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
20 ‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
21 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
22 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
23 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
1 ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in
2 come for the taxable year, over
3 ‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
4 section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

Don't you love it. And guess what. If this shows up in the final bill, it will be an automatic amendment to the IRS tax code.

443 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:23:40pm

re: #418 NJDhockeyfan

Nothing like a little ' We asked for it, so BOHICA ' ' tude from an ex-pat Brit/Iranian with a mic and a dog-eared passport.

444 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:23:47pm

re: #427 MandyManners

THIS IS OUR BILL. THIS IS OUR CONGRESS. THIS IS OUR NATION.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

445 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:23:50pm

re: #435 VioletTiger

The Nazi comparison is getting about as old and worn as the racist accusation. You hurl words like this around often enough and they rapidly lose their meaning and impact.


Maybe we can move on to fresh terms like 'sociopath' and 'narcissist.'

446 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:23:52pm

Cash 4 Clunkers

Dude hits some points right between the eyes.

447 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:24:09pm

Pop a cork with me, Lizardim, I just posted my first spinoff link!

No one told me the intarwebs could be this much fun.

448 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:24:21pm

re: #388 Wendya

I figured the left would eventually compare a disbelief in the idea that mankind is catastrophically driving up world temperatures to a disbelief in evolution. That's their M.O.

"We think", "May" and "probably" do not constitute solid evidence in my book. That's not a bad thing.

Let me fix that for you.

I know that human activity through carbon emissions, pollution and death of plant life is driving temperatures up.

I know that the caps are melting.

I know that weather patterns are changing.

I know that if the trend continues we will have an ecological catastrophe that will cause the suffering and death of millions will come sooner or later.

Now if you want the evidence for such strong statements, do go and look at the actual science. There are by now dozens of reputable links.

As to comparing compulsive AGW deniers to Disco shills, well, they are just as ignorant, just as incapable of accepting facts, just as fond of parroting half understood and false talking points and just as obnoxious when it comes to slowing down a minute and actually thinking through any science they don't like for political or religious reasons. The comparison is entirely valid.

Also, I am not a left winger.

I am a member of the Zionist Occupation of Remulak. Don't you forget it Human!

449 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:24:37pm

re: #438 VioletTiger

We've been pretty lucky this summer. This is the first real heat and humidity.

Yes, it's been a cooler summer by comparison but a heat wave seems to make it here at least once during the summer.

450 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:24:40pm

re: #420 The Shadow Do

I agree wholeheartedly

451 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:24:55pm

re: #412 OldLineTexan

Translation: If the economy tanks, Republicans will gain power in the same way Mussolini did in Italy and then become Nazis.

Ah hah. Well that's not going to get an upding!

Nazis, indeed. I thought all these Nazi comparisons were bad form. They are to me, from whichever direction the winds blows them in.

452 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:25:15pm

re: #422 Racer X

Why are people so freaked out over them?

Because, compared to the Cindy Sheehan's and Code Pink's of the world, they are NOT obviously crazy and might actually be a threat.

Oh, and they probably have guns.

453 hous bin pharteen  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:25:36pm

re: #438 VioletTiger

Your right. Global warming it is.
We are all burning up!

454 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:25:39pm

re: #442 Walter L. Newton
Beautiful, just beautiful.

455 HelloDare  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:26:02pm

Hey, I've trolled for lake trout. I deserve some sort of medal.

456 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:26:10pm

re: #427 MandyManners

THIS IS OUR BILL. THIS IS OUR CONGRESS. THIS IS OUR NATION.

Not if you not a progressive. This proposal (not a bill) belongs to them. It's not the voice of the conservatives that has had anything to do with any possible changes in the proposals (not a bill), the conservatives had nothing to do with bringing certain things in this proposal (not a bill) to the publics eye. Hell, we don't exist for this administration and the progressives.
/

457 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:26:22pm

re: #446 Racer X

Cash 4 Clunkers

Dude hits some points right between the eyes.

I found out the government is going to 1099 everyone who traded in a clunker so they can tax them on it.

458 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:26:40pm

re: #452 ggt

Because, compared to the Cindy Sheehan's and Code Pink's of the world, they are NOT obviously crazy and might actually be a threat.

Oh, and they probably have guns.

and teh gunz maek evil rayz

459 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:26:49pm

re: #456 Walter L. Newton

Not if you not a progressive. This proposal (not a bill) belongs to them. It's not the voice of the conservatives that has had anything to do with any possible changes in the proposals (not a bill), the conservatives had nothing to do with bringing certain things in this proposal (not a bill) to the publics eye. Hell, we don't exist for this administration and the progressives.
/

Oh, yes we do. We are their source of revenue. We are the flock that must be fleeced.

460 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:26:57pm

re: #442 Walter L. Newton

This is one of my favorite sections of the proposal (which is not a bill, which shouldn't be discussed since it's not a bill, but it will be a bill if we don't talk about it).

‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
19 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
20 ‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
21 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
22 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
23 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
1 ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in
2 come for the taxable year, over
3 ‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
4 section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

Don't you love it. And guess what. If this shows up in the final bill, it will be an automatic amendment to the IRS tax code.

Great Walter, but this isn't the final bill, didn't you know? Wait until it's passed and then we can discuss whether this is a good or bad thing. Sheesh.

461 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:27:14pm

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

I found out the government is going to 1099 everyone who traded in a clunker so they can tax them on it.

Fer realz?

462 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:27:14pm

re: #454 The Shadow Do

Beautiful, just beautiful.

Yep, there are a lot of hidden gems in the proposal that is not a bill and shouldn't be discussed since it is only proposals.

463 WindHorse  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:27:18pm

re: #442 Walter L. Newton

wow...

464 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:27:23pm

re: #422 Racer X

Why are people so freaked out over them?

The lunatics? Because of the death threats. They also prevent people from attending the meetings to ask questions of their representatives to learn how the pending bill will effect them.

465 SteveC  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:27:45pm

re: #406 OldLineTexan

I want to be shot at the age of 99 by the jeaolous husband of a 19 year-old beauty queen.

/

God calls St. Peter into His office. "Let's do something different. Take a survey on how people get here for a week." So St. Peter goes down to his desk job at the Pearly Gates and starts taking the survey.

The second day, this guy shows up. "Peter, it was the craziest thing. My flight got in early and there was a strange car in my driveway. I got suspicious, so I sneaked into the house and there is my wife lying in the bed in a see through nightie, in the middle of the day!

`Where is he? Where is the SOB you are sleeping with?' She denied it of course, so I started searching the house. I ran up three flights of steps and I found him! He was acting like he was fixing the sink, not a care in the world. So I grabbed him and we fought like cats and dogs, finally I got him out onto the balcony and shoved him over the rail!

I looked down, and the guy is still moving! He's hurt, but he's rolling around and trying to get his cell phone out, and I said `Oh hell, no you don't!' So I ran up two more flight of steps to the big freezer, unplugged it, and shoved that thing over to the balcony. Sent it over and it fell on the guy, killed him stone cold dead. Then I had a heart attack!"

Peter shakes his head, but the guys name is in the Book, so he gets in. Another guy shows up. St. Peter asks him how he died.

"I see this really hot little number whenever her husband is out of town. Well, he came home early, almost caught us! As soon as my babe realized hubby was home, she told me`Quick! There's a big freezer on the fifth floor, you can hide there!"

466 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:28:04pm

re: #450 albusteve

I agree wholeheartedly

That makes about two of us.

467 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:28:07pm

re: #464 Killgore Trout

The lunatics? Because of the death threats. They also prevent people from attending the meetings to ask questions of their representatives to learn how the pending bill will effect them.

except no one knows because it will all be changed

468 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:28:11pm

re: #464 Killgore Trout

The lunatics? Because of the death threats. They also prevent people from attending the meetings to ask questions of their representatives to learn how the pending bill will effect them.

Riiight.

469 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:28:25pm

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

I found out the government is going to 1099 everyone who traded in a clunker so they can tax them on it.

I found out the government is going to disallow the tax deduction for the portion of union dues that ends up as political contributions..

Nah Just kidding.

470 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:28:28pm

re: #456 Walter L. Newton

*smooch*

471 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:28:39pm

re: #458 OldLineTexan

and teh gunz maek evil rayz

You've got a gun that makes rays? Can I have it? Mine only shoot bullets, and rays would probably do fun things, like let me walk around and give big pompous speeches about my brilliantly evil plans.

After all, I already have my evil minions.

472 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:28:47pm

You can't support the rule of law when you're actively trying to undermine it. People who support these radical positions like theocracy and fascism might tell you they support the Constitution, but when you look deeper it's clear that they don't intend to uphold the rule of law at all. They are not the allies they paint themselves as being. They harm us as a movement when they repel potential voters and base supporters alike. Some people in this party actively attack moderates who we need to win elections so they can stubbornly cling to kooks! The kooks haven't exactly brought the electoral victories home lately, have they? Keep listening to the kooks and let us know how that works out for you.

473 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:28:54pm

AARP makes a commercial depicting anti-obamacare protesters blocking an ambulance with their cars.

474 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:29:30pm

re: #466 The Shadow Do

That makes about two of us.

I do enjoy the meaningless chatter and debate...kind of sad that almost everybody misses the point

475 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:29:33pm

re: #442 Walter L. Newton

This is one of my favorite sections of the proposal (which is not a bill, which shouldn't be discussed since it's not a bill, but it will be a bill if we don't talk about it).

‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
19 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
20 ‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
21 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
22 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
23 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
1 ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in
2 come for the taxable year, over
3 ‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
4 section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

Don't you love it. And guess what. If this shows up in the final bill, it will be an automatic amendment to the IRS tax code.

I would love to send that to every snarky youngin' who doesn't buy health insurance now, and who voted for Obama.

476 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:29:40pm

re: #471 EmmmieG

You've got a gun that makes rays? Can I have it? Mine only shoot bullets, and rays would probably do fun things, like let me walk around and give big pompous speeches about my brilliantly evil plans.

After all, I already have my evil minions.

teh gunz maek MIND CONTROL rayz

477 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:29:42pm

re: #442 Walter L. Newton

This is one of my favorite sections of the proposal (which is not a bill, which shouldn't be discussed since it's not a bill, but it will be a bill if we don't talk about it).

‘‘SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE
19 HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.
20 ‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
21 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
22 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
23 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
1 ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in
2 come for the taxable year, over
3 ‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
4 section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

Don't you love it. And guess what. If this shows up in the final bill, it will be an automatic amendment to the IRS tax code.

Yep. Like I said this morning I'll be "forced" into getting health insurance. I have no idea how I'll pull that off since I'm having a hard time making the rent in this post-free-market economy.

If so I'll probably go in for "the works" and get a full body rebuild including full dental work since I assume everything will be perfect once this health reform is passed.

No wait, that's just a dream I had.

478 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:30:00pm

re: #440 Pianobuff

Umm... aren't the Blue Dogs getting a lot of heat from their constituents, including at venues like town halls (the non-rowdy ones as well as the more boisterous)?

Much of the "real" heat if from the progressive wing of the Dems that want a single payer system or at least a public option. None of these nuts screaming about Death Panels will even vote Dem anyways so the Blue dogs don't give a shit about them.

479 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:30:05pm

OK, no one is allowed to go to a town hall style meeting with your local politician and raise questions about Obamacare. It scares the 'normal' people because they think you may be a right-wing wacko with a gun.

Got it.

480 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:30:45pm

re: #475 VioletTiger

I would love to send that to every snarky youngin' who doesn't buy health insurance now, and who voted for Obama.

$416.67 a month.

More or less.

481 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:30:51pm

re: #461 Racer X

Fer realz?

Yup. A friend of mine works at a Ford dealership and they heard this at their Friday meeting. Not surprising though seeing them looking to tax anything they can get away with.

482 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:31:02pm

re: #464 Killgore Trout

The lunatics? Because of the death threats. They also prevent people from attending the meetings to ask questions of their representatives to learn how the pending bill will effect them.

Please, post a link that illustrates this assertion.

483 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:31:03pm

re: #464 Killgore Trout

The lunatics? Because of the death threats. They also prevent people from attending the meetings to ask questions of their representatives to learn how the pending bill will effect them.

it's statist socialism...there is no more to know

484 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:31:04pm

re: #462 Walter L. Newton

Yep, there are a lot of hidden gems in the proposal that is not a bill and shouldn't be discussed since it is only proposals.

When it IS a bill, I guess I will have to be, I dunno, sorta disappointed? Shucks.

485 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:31:09pm

re: #460 Pianobuff

Great Walter, but this isn't the final bill, didn't you know? Wait until it's passed and then we can discuss whether this is a good or bad thing. Sheesh.

I know what you mean. The first time that was suggested to me I literally started choking because I was laughing so hard. And the fact that the person who said it had such a disconnect to the actual thought behind the statement made it all the more funny.

Anyone here want to join the far left?

486 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:31:26pm

re: #478 Killgore Trout

I like you KT, but brother - you crack me up sometimes.

487 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:31:31pm

re: #478 Killgore Trout

Much of the "real" heat if from the progressive wing of the Dems that want a single payer system or at least a public option. None of these nuts screaming about Death Panels will even vote Dem anyways so the Blue dogs don't give a shit about them.

On top of that Blue Dogs have a characteristic: the more you get in their face the more likely they are to do the opposite of what you want just to spite you. Screaming at the Blue dogs is bad, bad, bad tactics.

488 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:32:12pm

re: #471 EmmmieG

You've got a gun that makes rays? Can I have it? Mine only shoot bullets, and rays would probably do fun things, like let me walk around and give big pompous speeches about my brilliantly evil plans.

After all, I already have my evil minions.

Those lil' critters look like they'd make some gnarly minions.

489 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:32:13pm

re: #464 Killgore Trout

The lunatics? Because of the death threats. They also prevent people from attending the meetings to ask questions of their representatives to learn how the pending bill will effect them.

Yes, we had hundreds of people show up for Polis, Degette and Perlmutter in Denver this weekend, cowering from fear.
///

490 esch  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:32:14pm

re: #485 Walter L. Newton

Anyone here want to join the far left?

Raised by them. Seen the effects on individuals and families. NO thanks.

491 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:32:14pm

re: #449 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, it's been a cooler summer by comparison but a heat wave seems to make it here at least once during the summer.

I'm in your neck of the woods.

492 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:32:15pm

re: #439 Wendya

Honest question: Do you believe any researcher would receive/continue to receive federal dollars for anti-AGW research?

Researchers know which side their bread is buttered on.

No researcher should receive federal dollars for pro or anti AGW research. You don't commit to research with a presumed conclusion. You go in with a hypothesis to test, and science advances no matter whether the hypothesis is supported or refuted.

493 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:32:20pm

re: #464 Killgore Trout

The lunatics? Because of the death threats. They also prevent people from attending the meetings to ask questions of their representatives to learn how the pending bill will effect them.

When a goofball acts crazy, no one cares. When people who seem otherwise normal start acting crazy its unsettling.

No one is or ever was going to learn anything substantial at these meetings. How can a person who never read the bill field questions about what is in the bill? The whole thing was only ever going to be a dog and pony show. It blew up like a trick cigar. Who could have seen that coming?

494 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:32:49pm

re: #448 ludwigvanquixote

I am a member of the Zionist Occupation of Remulak. Don't you forget it Human!

Which is Kalumer spelled backwards. Shudder.

495 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:33:05pm

re: #343 Cato the Elder

That's easy. Bright lights, big city. She's convinced she can be national. Bigger fish to fry. "People listen when I talk, and I've got book offers! What's that? My gig here in Buttholia? You're kidding, right?"

Narcissism pure.

Perhaps it describes you as well since you're just sooo sure you have her number.

496 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:33:18pm

re: #329 tradewind

If you were the parent of a handicapped child and you heard Rahm's brother Dr Evil Emmanuel assert that ' health care resources should be conserved for those who can fully participate in society' just to name one of his Deep Thoughts , you might have a different attitude.
Or not.

You might want to check Rahm's brother's, mailman's, cousins thoughts on the issue too.

497 placeholder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:33:21pm

re: #420 The Shadow Do

I am sure to get little respect for my position on this, but I have very little interest in reading the proposed bill. I oppose it on its face.

The United States government must not be usurping private enterprise, whether it be banks, cars, insurance companies or what have you.

The US government can provide rules and regulations to insure a fair playing field. Beyond that it simply becomes the epitamy of a trust system that was supposedly busted by T.R. a long time ago.

The Feds intentions are to simply provide competition to private enterprise?

Sure, sure, sure...

Go ahead folks, debate the detail - and prepare yourself to eat the final product.

And no, I don't fear Canadians Mr. President, you dope.

Somebody please report me before I get more out of line.

But it has been for years... you can't have it both ways. Either the government stays out, or it wades in. Farm subsidies anyone? You think that's remotely "private enterprise" that functions based on market rules? How about pork that drives military spending... senators who overrule senior military staff to continue to produce weapons and products that are deemed unnecessary or outdated? That's not private enterprise. That's not a "level" playing field.

I've whines about this before so I won't belabor it, but you can't have it both ways... Either the government stays out - not just on gun control, taxes, and healthcare - but on abortion, assisted suicide, drugs, and prostitution.

Either you preach family values - which means you don't sleep with dudes (while campaigning against it), cheat on your wife, or steal money, or you don't.

You can't preach a broad position while only supporting it in cases that you agree with on a moral basis... i mean you can, but that just makes you a hypocrite.

-PH

498 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:33:30pm

re: #480 Gus 802

$416.67 a month.

More or less.

And this is ...a tax! surprise! you were punked.

499 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:33:44pm

re: #467 OldLineTexan

except no one knows because it will all be changed

Yup. There are a lot of unintended consequences in this kind of stuff. Not many people are seriously talking about what can/might happen. The noise from the "death panel"/Glenn beck crowd drowns out any reasonable discourse. Frankly I don't trust anybody to tell me what's going to happen with this. The critics are too stupid and hysterical and the proponents are selling their own brand of bullshit.

500 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:33:49pm

It's not Alinsky when it's coming from the right.

501 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:33:56pm
502 esch  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:33:58pm

re: #492 Coracle

No researcher should receive federal dollars for pro or anti AGW research. You don't commit to research with a presumed conclusion. You go in with a hypothesis to test, and science advances no matter whether the hypothesis is supported or refuted.

Now why'd you have to bring up ideals and scientific rigor into a nice rant like this?

/

503 Ojoe  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:34:09pm

Yoo Hoo students!

Would you say we have a Plethora of hostile posters here?

...

I like these trolls. They are funny trolls ...

504 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:34:19pm

re: #405 Silvergirl

I'm sorry for being dense. Would you please explain this some more?

OK I mean this...

If you have desperate people who have an image of themselves as a great power and they fall on tough times and start believing mass hysteria ideas, it is much easier, always to blame the "other" than to take responsibility for oneself.

Unscrupulous leaders know this and historically, the message goes along the lines of returning to one's former glory by purging those elements who "make us weak."

The key is to have people desperate and uneducated in the wake of an economic collapse. They will cling to the idea of the strong man who will fix things with glorious imagery of nationalism (for fascists, or communism for the other side) like a lifeline.

The moronic convergence is that totalitarians of all stripes peddle this message. In the end there is little difference between the "workers paradise" and the "fatherland." The GOP crazies are heading towards the one side and the Far left crazies want the other.

Both sides love a convenient other to point at. It focuses their masses. Historically, Jews are in the canary population.

Do you think Obama likes us?

Do you think the far left, now given free reign to spread big lies about us is being held in check. Will those lies disappear if the economy tanks and a far right, radicalized GOP takes over?

Do you think Ron Paul or St. Pat likes us?

Now, the U.S. went through a depression before, but it was a tougher generation that wasn't used to having as much to begin with. Even then there were plenty of American Commies and American Nazis. The difference is that those were much more fringe sets. We have the mainstream GOP sounding more and more hysterical everyday.

505 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:34:23pm

re: #495 Wendya

Perhaps it describes you as well since you're just sooo sure you have her number.

Ooh. I know I am but what are you?

Anything else?

506 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:34:30pm

re: #500 Sharmuta

It's not Alinsky when it's coming from the right.

Really? It can be.

507 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:34:40pm

re: #491 VioletTiger

I'm in your neck of the woods.

Virginia?

508 placeholder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:34:50pm

re: #435 VioletTiger

The Nazi comparison is getting about as old and worn as the racist accusation. You hurl words like this around often enough and they rapidly lose their meaning and impact.
There are real Nazis and real racists. I'd like to see the words used where they truly apply.

hear hear.

509 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:34:54pm

Do Blue Dogs hunt?

Are they kinda like those Southern Blue Tick Hounds?

or are they curs?

510 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:34:58pm

re: #482 MandyManners

Please, post a link that illustrates this assertion.

Death threats cancel local town hall health care meetings

511 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:35:15pm

re: #457 NJDhockeyfan

I found out the government is going to 1099 everyone who traded in a clunker so they can tax them on it.

You are flat incorrect, the rebate is not taxable except for state sales tax when you tag and title ad that tax is deductable.

512 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:35:30pm

re: #500 Sharmuta

It's not Alinsky when it's coming from the right.

When something works you go with it.

513 swamprat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:35:34pm

We have an aging population and the medical community has been raped and pillaged by the lawyers.
Something should be done.
Tort reform is the elephant in the drawing room.
Nobody wants to do what is necessary, so instead they want to do what every body else has done and have socialized medicine.
But both are needed.
A reasonable tort reform should be addressed.
Medicare and Medicaid should be amended, and repaired to fit the needs of a nation that needs both lightly socialized medical care hand in hand with a robust and healthy private medical industry.
We can do this without tearing the friggin' nation apart.
We can do this without rushed health-care bills, staged riots, union goons, bullshit interpretations, deliberate disruptions masquerading as dissent, and political posturing.
The dems have pushed this monstrosity claiming it is change; Brother, "change" doesn't begin to cover it!
The republicans are screaming like a child in a restaurant, just to drag their feet and claiming all this fuss is coming from middle America when the pattern of behavior is hardly spontaneous.

We need better leaders. I am getting fucking sick of political theater passing itself off as statesmanship.
I remember when we did not act like a third world country

514 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:35:39pm

re: #492 Coracle

Would it be too bold of me to ask if your in a scientific field?

515 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:35:53pm

re: #498 VioletTiger

And this is ...a tax! surprise! you were punked.

Right. They better "stay in college" and hope to get a well paying job.

516 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:36:18pm

re: #502 esch

Now why'd you have to bring up ideals and scientific rigor into a nice rant like this?

/

Ah. I thought rationality was the goal here. My bad.

//

517 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:36:24pm

re: #487 Thanos

On top of that Blue Dogs have a characteristic: the more you get in their face the more likely they are to do the opposite of what you want just to spite you. Screaming at the Blue dogs is bad, bad, bad tactics.

Not really, sort of like flushing a covey of quail.

Next election: boom boom boom
Figuratively of course.

518 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:36:24pm

re: #512 Racer X

When something works you go with it.

What makes you think it worked?

519 SteveC  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:36:26pm

re: #471 EmmmieG

You've got a gun that makes rays?

My dad has an temperature probe that looks just like a pistol grip phaser. Used to measure the heat in ovens to make sure the heat is uniform throughout, it shines a red light at its target. It has scared TSA officers to death several times.

520 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:36:27pm

re: #448 ludwigvanquixote

I know that human activity through carbon emissions, pollution and death of plant life is driving temperatures up.

I know that the caps are melting.

I know that weather patterns are changing.

I know that if the trend continues we will have an ecological catastrophe that will cause the suffering and death of millions will come sooner or later.

You know a hell of a lot more than most researchers. Other than the Hansen/Gore crowd, most reputable scientists are not making absolute statements.

521 Ojoe  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:36:47pm

re: #513 swamprat

We need better leaders. I am getting fucking sick of political theater passing itself off as statesmanship.


Me too.

522 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:37:20pm

re: #505 Cato the Elder

Ooh. I know I am but what are you?

Anything else?

Perhaps you ought to examine yourself to see why you have such an emotional reaction to her. It's really not healthy.

523 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:37:35pm

re: #514 Sharmuta

Would it be too bold of me to ask if your in a scientific field?

Planetary science.

524 esch  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:37:40pm

re: #510 Killgore Trout

Death threats cancel local town hall health care meetings

I have no doubt that it is happening. There are plenty of whack jobs out there.

However I would also like to see followup arrests and convictions for the (at this point) alleged death threats they're receiving. Because it is a MIGHTY convenient excuse.

525 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:37:51pm

re: #511 avanti

You are flat incorrect, the rebate is not taxable except for state sales tax when you tag and title ad that tax is deductable.

Well someone should set the record straight with Ford dealerships because that is what they are telling their salesmen.

526 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:38:00pm

re: #492 Coracle

Hi.

WELCOME.

527 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:38:00pm

re: #523 Coracle

Planetary science.

Way cool! I love space. Welcome to LGF.

528 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:38:21pm

re: #522 Wendya

Perhaps you ought to examine yourself to see why you have such an emotional reaction to her. It's really not healthy.

Palin loves Cato and he knows it...fertile turf for all kinds of bizarre stuff

529 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:38:28pm

re: #492 Coracle

No researcher should receive federal dollars for pro or anti AGW research. You don't commit to research with a presumed conclusion. You go in with a hypothesis to test, and science advances no matter whether the hypothesis is supported or refuted.

Theoretically, you are correct. In reality, specific positions get the $$$.

530 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:38:49pm

re: #478 Killgore Trout

Much of the "real" heat if from the progressive wing of the Dems that want a single payer system or at least a public option. None of these nuts screaming about Death Panels will even vote Dem anyways so the Blue dogs don't give a shit about them.

Read my question again. Don't read into it. Just read it.

531 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:39:00pm

re: #523 Coracle

Planetary science.

Which planet?

Do you think we have reached the limits of what anal probing can teach us?

/

532 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:39:05pm

re: #510 Killgore Trout

Was that written for a high school newspaper? Hyperbolic nonsense.

Republican extremists, in concert with the health insurance lobby, have been conducting a campaign of dirty tricks and misinformation.

The whole article sounds like a press release from DNC headquarters. What a load of crap.

533 swamprat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:39:11pm

re: #416 Killgore Trout

Yup, it might actually end up being a good bill when they get done with it.

From your mouth to ...
nevermind

I hope you are correct.

534 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:39:22pm

re: #507 NJDhockeyfan

Virginia?

Thought you were in Jersey (your nic!)

535 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:39:29pm

re: #510 Killgore Trout

Death threats cancel local town hall health care meetings

Right. Death threats. I assume the FBI is investigating?

Organized efforts to demonize health care reform have gone far beyond politics as usual. Republican operatives are threatening free speech: Political threats of violence, political acts of violence, threaten the fabric of our society. The fact that any Republican would encourage or condone such activity is appalling.

Right.

And Hollywood making a movie about murdering the sitting president was okee dokee?

536 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:39:34pm

re: #439 Wendya

Honest question: Do you believe any researcher would receive/continue to receive federal dollars for anti-AGW research?

Researchers know which side their bread is buttered on.

Honest question, do you know how much the last administration tried to bury the science of AGW for political reasons?

The entire reason the the right wing blogosphere knows of and has demonized Hansen was because he told the political minder that Bush appointed to edit his work to go to hell. Now Hansen is a bit alarmist, and certainly provocative, but he has been thoroughly demonized, not because any of the deniers understand the science, but rather because he was quite effectively target to be demonized.

No for the past eight years bread has been buttered by the GOP science editors. If you really doubt that, talk to the stem cell people too for similar stories.

537 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:39:35pm

re: #531 OldLineTexan

Which planet?

Do you think we have reached the limits of what anal probing can teach us?

/

I think you want a proctologist.

//

538 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:39:39pm

re: #529 Wendya

Theoretically, you are correct. In reality, specific positions get the $$$.

In real reality, I've been on enough proposal review panels to know that is dead wrong.

539 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:40:09pm

re: #534 VioletTiger

Thought you were in Jersey (your nic!)

Originally from NJ. I'm a Damned Yankee now. ;)

540 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:40:11pm

re: #525 NJDhockeyfan

Taxable to dealers. Of course, that means they will pass it on.

Car dealers participating in the government's 'cash for clunkers' program were shocked when the IRS informed them that they will owe taxes on the CARS rebates they receive from the government.


[Link: www.aim.org...]

541 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:40:15pm

re: #518 Sharmuta

What makes you think it worked?

"We won"

542 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:40:44pm

re: #541 Racer X

"We won"

Correlation is not causation.

543 esch  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:40:59pm

re: #531 OldLineTexan

Which planet?

Do you think we have reached the limits of what anal probing can teach us?

/

omg...when I read that I heard Barney Frank say that in my head

BRAIN...um...what's good for audio?

544 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:41:03pm

re: #531 OldLineTexan

Which planet?

Do you think we have reached the limits of what anal probing can teach us?

/

Several of them. I like the rocky ones best.

As for the second question, If you wouldn't mind coming a bit close there was one last question I had...

545 WindHorse  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:41:20pm

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha... get your prayer flags out.

546 placeholder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:41:22pm

re: #527 Sharmuta

Way cool! I love space. Welcome to LGF.

There is no space. One of my favorite articles on this topic:

[Link: www.theonion.com...]

Its creepy how dead on the parody is... a taste:

"Things fall not because they are acted upon by some gravitational force, but because a higher intelligence, 'God' if you will, is pushing them down," said Gabriel Burdett, who holds degrees in education, applied Scripture, and physics from Oral Roberts University.

Burdett added: "Gravity—which is taught to our children as a law—is founded on great gaps in understanding. The laws predict the mutual force between all bodies of mass, but they cannot explain that force. Isaac Newton himself said, 'I suspect that my theories may all depend upon a force for which philosophers have searched all of nature in vain.' Of course, he is alluding to a higher power."

547 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:41:44pm

re: #525 NJDhockeyfan

Well someone should set the record straight with Ford dealerships because that is what they are telling their salesmen.

They may be talking about sales tax, it is based on the full sale price in some states. The rebate, like almost all rebates is not subject to federal tax.

548 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:41:47pm

re: #527 Sharmuta

And to Mandy,

Thanks.

549 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:41:49pm

re: #504 ludwigvanquixote

OK I mean this...

If you have desperate people who have an image of themselves as a great power and they fall on tough times and start believing mass hysteria ideas, it is much easier, always to blame the "other" than to take responsibility for oneself.

Unscrupulous leaders know this and historically, the message goes along the lines of returning to one's former glory by purging those elements who "make us weak."

The key is to have people desperate and uneducated in the wake of an economic collapse. They will cling to the idea of the strong man who will fix things with glorious imagery of nationalism (for fascists, or communism for the other side) like a lifeline.

The moronic convergence is that totalitarians of all stripes peddle this message. In the end there is little difference between the "workers paradise" and the "fatherland." The GOP crazies are heading towards the one side and the Far left crazies want the other.

Both sides love a convenient other to point at. It focuses their masses. Historically, Jews are in the canary population.

Do you think Obama likes us?

Do you think the far left, now given free reign to spread big lies about us is being held in check. Will those lies disappear if the economy tanks and a far right, radicalized GOP takes over?

Do you think Ron Paul or St. Pat likes us?

Now, the U.S. went through a depression before, but it was a tougher generation that wasn't used to having as much to begin with. Even then there were plenty of American Commies and American Nazis. The difference is that those were much more fringe sets. We have the mainstream GOP sounding more and more hysterical everyday.

Well that was worth a rewrite for me--hope it was for you. Well done, I say!

550 MandyManners  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:41:52pm

re: #510 Killgore Trout

Death threats cancel local town hall health care meetings

Town hall meetings were originally scheduled to provide a forum for discussing health care reform. But in public meetings across the country, those forums have degenerated into shouting matches. Republican extremists, in concert with the health insurance lobby, have been conducting a campaign of dirty tricks and misinformation. “It's not about showing up and having a real dialogue or discussing point A or B about the health care proposal," said Congressman Baird. "It’s 'shout them down, disrupt them and then post your video of that disruption on YouTube'.”


*snort*

551 jorline  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:42:01pm
552 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:42:04pm

re: #492 Coracle

No researcher should receive federal dollars for pro or anti AGW research. You don't commit to research with a presumed conclusion. You go in with a hypothesis to test, and science advances no matter whether the hypothesis is supported or refuted.

Excellent.

553 Ramona  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:42:24pm

re: #369 ggt

What this part of the bill provides is the opportunity for doctors who provide this service to get paid. A (good) family practioner will, and often does discuss medical directives and other difficult issues with her/his patients.

554 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:42:35pm

John Conyers. Obama's Health plan is a load of crap.

Obama once gave lip service to single payer health care, but as president has staked his reputation on a mishmash of corporate schemes and deals-with-the-devil masquerading as health care reform – a thoroughly confused and conflicted legislative concoction that Conyers describes, simply, as “crap.”


He must be a Republican Extremist.

555 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:42:56pm

re: #497 placeholder

But it has been for years... you can't have it both ways. Either the government stays out, or it wades in. Farm subsidies anyone? You think that's remotely "private enterprise" that functions based on market rules? How about pork that drives military spending... senators who overrule senior military staff to continue to produce weapons and products that are deemed unnecessary or outdated? That's not private enterprise. That's not a "level" playing field.

I've whines about this before so I won't belabor it, but you can't have it both ways... Either the government stays out - not just on gun control, taxes, and healthcare - but on abortion, assisted suicide, drugs, and prostitution.

Either you preach family values - which means you don't sleep with dudes (while campaigning against it), cheat on your wife, or steal money, or you don't.

You can't preach a broad position while only supporting it in cases that you agree with on a moral basis... i mean you can, but that just makes you a hypocrite.

-PH

Good grief. I surrender, hypocrite that I am. More government intursion please.

Loves me those subsidies and such like. And I promise I will never again go all Larry Craig or steal, or cheat, or wear ladies underwear. Not ever, ever again. I Promise, OK?

556 OldLineTexan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:42:59pm

re: #544 Coracle

Several of them. I like the rocky ones best.

As for the second question, If you wouldn't mind coming a bit close there was one last question I had...

Oh, I get it ... you're a flight surgeon!

Done any prison time, doc?

/former rocket scientist here - hail and well met

557 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:43:15pm

re: #550 MandyManners

Its all organized by the, uh, insurance industry! Yeah, thats it! Those damn greedy CORPORATIONS again!

558 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:43:28pm

re: #532 mich-again

Was that written for a high school newspaper? Hyperbolic nonsense.

The whole article sounds like a press release from DNC headquarters. What a load of crap.

There are plenty of sources to choose from.

559 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:43:33pm

re: #523 Coracle

Planetary science.

Someone's going to have fun with that one.

Hope it's me.

Welcome to LGF.

560 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:43:45pm

re: #550 MandyManners

Town hall meetings were originally scheduled to provide a forum for discussing health care reform. But in public meetings across the country, those forums have degenerated into shouting matches. Republican extremists, in concert with the health insurance lobby, have been conducting a campaign of dirty tricks and misinformation. “It's not about showing up and having a real dialogue or discussing point A or B about the health care proposal," said Congressman Baird. "It’s 'shout them down, disrupt them and then post your video of that disruption on YouTube'.”

*snort*

Meanwhile the violence has come from SEIU thugs.

561 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:43:58pm

re: #510 Killgore Trout

Death threats cancel local town hall health care meetings

That's a horrible story. But are you sure it's actually true?

562 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:44:47pm

re: #540 jaunte

Taxable to dealers. Of course, that means they will pass it on.


[Link: www.aim.org...]

This is after a month or more of making sales based on receiving the full rebate.
Changing the rules in the middle of the game.
Companies are going to get very wary of all the government "stimulus" deals, and they won't take them

563 placeholder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:44:51pm

re: #555 The Shadow Do

Good grief. I surrender, hypocrite that I am. More government intursion please.

Loves me those subsidies and such like. And I promise I will never again go all Larry Craig or steal, or cheat, or wear ladies underwear. Not ever, ever again. I Promise, OK?

Whhheee. I win.

564 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:45:13pm

re: #520 Wendya

You know a hell of a lot more than most researchers. Other than the Hansen/Gore crowd, most reputable scientists are not making absolute statements.

That only proves how little of the research you have seen. Would you care to look at it?

565 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:45:17pm

re: #535 Racer X

Right.

And Hollywood making a movie about murdering the sitting president was okee dokee?

Concur. We've proposed reform plans and asked only that the Dems listen to use, but they won't even pretend to do that. So we've started being confrontational and now they can't not notice us. No GOP leader is calling for violence. The death threats are the product of lone nuts. We should denouce them and make sure we aren't associated with them (as well as report them if we find out who they are). Those nuts are not our fault.

566 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:45:37pm

re: #561 Last Mohican

That's a horrible story. But are you sure it's actually true?

see #558

567 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:46:16pm

re: #561 Last Mohican

That's a horrible story. But are you sure it's actually true?

Dude! It was written by a guy from the Portland Progressive Examiner!

It is 100% true and not exaggerated at all! No left leaning agenda here.

568 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:46:21pm

re: #540 jaunte

Taxable to dealers. Of course, that means they will pass it on.


[Link: www.aim.org...]

re: #540 jaunte

Taxable to dealers. Of course, that means they will pass it on.


[Link: www.aim.org...]

Of course, it's income for the dealer. From his prospective, it's just like I gave him $4500 down, except the money comes from the government. I don't know how it could be free of tax.

569 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:46:23pm

re: #554 mich-again

John Conyers. Obama's Health plan is a load of crap.


He must be a Republican Extremist.

I am going to report him immediately.

570 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:46:29pm

re: #553 Ramona

What this part of the bill provides is the opportunity for doctors who provide this service to get paid. A (good) family practioner will, and often does discuss medical directives and other difficult issues with her/his patients.

I'm not sure doctors are the best choice to discuss this with patients. Wouldn't a Nurse Practitioner/Psycologist be better? I say this simply because I don't think doctors are trained for it. Probably one more thing that will be determined practiced differently in different localities. Just as it is now.

571 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:46:54pm

It's QUIZ TIME! Who said this?

To achieve health care reform, "I'm going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We'll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies -- they'll get a seat at the table, they just won't be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process."

What happened and why is Big Pharma putting 150 Million into an ad campaign for Obamacare?

572 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:47:31pm

re: #522 Wendya

Perhaps you ought to examine yourself to see why you have such an emotional reaction to her. It's really not healthy.

I have always reacted strongly against meretricious mendacity in public places. See any good biography of me, starting with Plutarch.

573 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:47:31pm

re: #562 Kosh's Shadow

This is after a month or more of making sales based on receiving the full rebate.
Changing the rules in the middle of the game.
Companies are going to get very wary of all the government "stimulus" deals, and they won't take them

I wonder how many times people are going to see this kind of thing happen
(rules changed in mid-game) before they start to catch on?

574 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:47:48pm

re: #558 Killgore Trout

Democratic Rep. Brad Miller received the death threat in a phone call Monday, one of hundreds the congressman's office has fielded demanding town-hall meetings on the health care proposal, said his spokeswoman, LuAnn Canipe.

She said the callers were "trying to instigate town halls so they can show up and disrupt."

So the people who are demanding the town hall meetings so they can disrupt them made a bomb threat so they would be canceled instead. Check.

That makes sense.

575 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:48:10pm

re: #572 Cato the Elder

I have always reacted strongly against meretricious mendacity in public places. See any good biography of me, starting with Plutarch.

Evening, are you still up. How's the sleep doing?

576 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:48:24pm

re: #568 avanti

Of course, it's income for the dealer. From his prospective, it's just like I gave him $4500 down, except the money comes from the government. I don't know how it could be free of tax.

Because he's supposed to give it all to the person who traded in the car?
I guess he claims the rebate as income, and the payment to the customer as an expense, and comes out even.
And the accountants win.

577 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:48:31pm

re: #561 Last Mohican

That's a horrible story. But are you sure it's actually true?

If there so many links on google news, it must be true!

578 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:48:32pm

re: #571 Pianobuff

It's QUIZ TIME! Who said this?

To achieve health care reform, "I'm going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We'll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies -- they'll get a seat at the table, they just won't be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process."

What happened and why is Big Pharma putting 150 Million into an ad campaign for Obamacare?

OH SHIT!

I am so reporting you to the white house for distributing misinformation!

579 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:48:34pm

re: #562 Kosh's Shadow

This is after a month or more of making sales based on receiving the full rebate.
Changing the rules in the middle of the game.
Companies are going to get very wary of all the government "stimulus" deals, and they won't take them

There was no "rule change" the $3500-$4500 is taxable income to the dealer and always would be. If I handed the dealer the $4500 myself, he'd sure as hell pay tax on it.

580 American Sabra  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:48:43pm

re: #561 Last Mohican

That's a horrible story. But are you sure it's actually true?

It would appear to be. On the Clark County Republican website, it makes a reference.

If you scroll down:

Congressional Candidate Jon Russell to Hold Town Hall Meeting on Health Care
Dated : 08/06/09
Apparently, unlike Congressman Baird, Congressional Candidate Jon Russell is not worried about meeting with the citizens in his district to discuss health care legislation. Russell has called four town hall meetings.

581 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:48:57pm

re: #572 Cato the Elder

I have always reacted strongly against meretricious mendacity in public places. See any good biography of me, starting with Plutarch.

hahaha!...you're insufferable

582 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:49:17pm

re: #557 Racer X

Its all organized by the, uh, insurance industry! Yeah, thats it! Those damn greedy CORPORATIONS again!

Our community organizer in chief doesn't want the conservatvies to organize, but wants his supporters to organize. From a letter received by a friend who signed up for this stuff during the election, and it keeps coming:

“This is the moment our movement was built for. For one month, the fight for health insurance reform leaves the backrooms of Washington, D.C., and returns to communities across America. (etc., etc.) That's why Organizing for America is putting together thousands of events this month where you can reach out to neighbors, show your support, and make certain your members of Congress know that you're counting on them to act. But these canvasses, town halls, and gatherings only make a difference if you turn up to knock on doors, share your views, and show your support. So here's what I need from you: Can you commit to join at least one event in your community this month? "

583 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:49:35pm

I am laughing so hard right now.

584 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:49:37pm

re: #561 Last Mohican

That's a horrible story. But are you sure it's actually true?


U.S. Rep. Brian Baird has a few other comments we should look at...

U.S. Rep. Brian Baird faced a deluge of criticism Thursday for his decision not to hold live town hall meetings on health reform and for his Wednesday comparison of disruptive anti-health-reform demonstrators with Nazis and murderers.

"The congressman should be ashamed and embarrassed," said Ryan Hart, chairman of the Clark County Republican Party. "Portland police used to bring in extra people when Bush came to town, but I never heard President Bush call people Nazis or Brown Shirts."

In Wednesday conversations with the Olympian and Columbian, Baird said he's holding "telephone town halls" instead of live meetings to avoid an "ambush" by people with a "lynch-mob mentality" and "close to Brown Shirt tactics."

Baird, D-Vancouver, referred to an effigy of a conservative Democrat that was photographed hanging from a noose last month in Maryland.

Two of Baird's Republican challengers issued news releases on the issue Thursday.

"There appears to be a leadership void on national issues which will impact residents of Southwest Washington," wrote candidate Jon Russell of Washougal, in announcing a series of town hall meetings he'll host in late August.

Candidate David Castillo of Olympia, who is black, said he was "disgusted" by Baird's "lynch mob" remark.

Baird stuck to his rhetorical guns Thursday.

He invites civil disagreements over health reform, he said.

"I've had 300 town halls," Baird said. "That's more than anyone else I know on either side of the aisle."

But Baird said a "coordinated national effort" to disrupt public meetings with shouts and demonstrations, which he said Republican leaders were "egging on," was reminiscent of the kinds of things that drove Timothy McVeigh to bomb the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995.

"He believed himself to be a patriot fighting against an oppressive government," Baird said of McVeigh, whose act killed 168.

/Classy

585 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:49:42pm

re: #579 avanti

There was no "rule change" the $3500-$4500 is taxable income to the dealer and always would be. If I handed the dealer the $4500 myself, he'd sure as hell pay tax on it.

who cares?...it's pure socialism

586 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:49:48pm

re: #569 The Shadow Do

I am going to report him immediately.

Very fishy.

587 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:50:22pm

re: #571 Pianobuff

It's QUIZ TIME! Who said this?

To achieve health care reform, "I'm going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We'll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies -- they'll get a seat at the table, they just won't be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process."

What happened and why is Big Pharma putting 150 Million into an ad campaign for Obamacare?

Because they figure this is a good deal for them, and that if they oppose him and lose they'll get screwed. The truth is that if Obamacare passes, they're screwed no matter what. And so are we.

588 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:50:25pm

re: #567 Racer X

Dude! It was written by a guy from the Portland Progressive Examiner!

It is 100% true and not exaggerated at all! No left leaning agenda here.

No doubt, that guy's credibility (and his goatee) are sadly deficient. But I'm convinced by the diversity of sources in KT's #558. Either these death threats are actually happening, or a lot of Democrats are getting together to make up death threats. And I don't think they're doing that.

589 Egregious Philbin  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:50:46pm

Cretards are sooo pathetic.

Trolling for credits...lame.

Of course, a "degree" in creation "Science" is about as worthless as a good looking nun.

590 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:50:52pm

re: #561 Last Mohican

That's a horrible story. But are you sure it's actually true?

Was it a lynch mob or a David Lynch mob?

591 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:50:52pm

re: #579 avanti

There was no "rule change" the $3500-$4500 is taxable income to the dealer and always would be. If I handed the dealer the $4500 myself, he'd sure as hell pay tax on it.

Except the whole program is advertised as giving the $4500 to the consumer.
So if you hand me $4500 to give to someone else, would you think I should pay tax on it? I don't consider it income because I can't keep it.

592 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:51:06pm

re: #576 Kosh's Shadow

Because he's supposed to give it all to the person who traded in the car?
I guess he claims the rebate as income, and the payment to the customer as an expense, and comes out even.
And the accountants win.

The rebate never went to the person that trades the car, it always went to the dealer.

593 Coracle  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:51:29pm

Night all. Too much to do tomorrow.

594 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:51:48pm

re: #571 Pianobuff

It's QUIZ TIME! Who said this?

To achieve health care reform, "I'm going to have all the negotiations around a big table. We'll have doctors and nurses and hospital administrators. Insurance companies, drug companies -- they'll get a seat at the table, they just won't be able to buy every chair. But what we will do is, we'll have the negotiations televised on C-SPAN, so that people can see who is making arguments on behalf of their constituents, and who are making arguments on behalf of the drug companies or the insurance companies. And so, that approach, I think is what is going to allow people to stay involved in this process."

What happened and why is Big Pharma putting 150 Million into an ad campaign for Obamacare?

Risk/reward. The Feds take the risk, the pharaceuticals are rewarded - so long as they play ball of course.

595 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:52:06pm

re: #593 Coracle

Good night, Newbie. And welcome again.

596 Killgore Trout  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:52:06pm

re: #584 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, he had to cancel his events because of death threats.

597 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:52:13pm

re: #575 Walter L. Newton

Evening, are you still up. How's the sleep doing?

Thanks for asking - enormously improved! And I'm about to go enjoy a good eight hours' worth.

598 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:52:17pm

re: #592 avanti

The rebate never went to the person that trades the car, it always went to the dealer.

who paid for the rebate?

599 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:52:41pm

re: #588 Last Mohican

Either these death threats are actually happening, or a lot of Democrats are getting together to make up death threats. And I don't think they're doing that.

My problem with the reporting is that it is just assumed that the death threats are coming from "Republican" extremists.

600 Yankee Division Son  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:52:41pm

This would jive with the post I noticed on slashdot..

601 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:53:11pm

re: #592 avanti

The rebate never went to the person that trades the car, it always went to the dealer.

The dealer is middleman here. Would it be acceptable for dealers to take the trade and not give the $4500 to the customer?

602 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:53:15pm

re: #584 NJDhockeyfan

/Classy

So the left organizes groups of semi-uniformed unionists to go to these meeting and get thuggish with anyone who tries to tell the truth and we're the Brownshirts? Once Again:

The Left Has No Shame, Nor Any Honor.

603 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:53:18pm

re: #597 Cato the Elder

Thanks for asking - enormously improved! And I'm about to go enjoy a good eight hours' worth.

Well, don't let any of the horror stories of "mobs" and stuff invade your dreams. Just keep thinking of the Obama Utopia and sweet dreams.

604 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:53:46pm

re: #597 Cato the Elder

Thanks for asking - enormously improved! And I'm about to go enjoy a good eight hours' worth.

It will help your health out in so many ways you never even expected.

605 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:53:56pm

re: #588 Last Mohican

No doubt, that guy's credibility (and his goatee) are sadly deficient. But I'm convinced by the diversity of sources in KT's #558. Either these death threats are actually happening, or a lot of Democrats are getting together to make up death threats. And I don't think they're doing that.

Who in their right mind would actually call in a death threat to a politician? Yes, you are correct. A lunatic. The vast majority of 'right-wing' protesters are not lunatics. They just want straight answers. We are being lied to (again) by politicians.

Take a step back and think about it.

Think.

606 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:54:19pm

re: #585 albusteve

who cares?...it's pure socialism

If so, we've had it for decades with rebates on storm windows, energy efficient furnaces and the like. Not to mention millions in tax breaks for a big businesses to move to your town.

607 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:55:06pm

re: #596 Killgore Trout

Yes, he had to cancel his events because of death threats.

I heard it was a threat from Timothy McVeigh II.

608 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:55:20pm

re: #570 ggt

I'm not sure doctors are the best choice to discuss this with patients. Wouldn't a Nurse Practitioner/Psycologist be better? I say this simply because I don't think doctors are trained for it. Probably one more thing that will be determined practiced differently in different localities. Just as it is now.

There's certainly nothing in a nurse practitioner's training that would make him or her particularly suited to discussing end of life care. Some psychologists, sure.

609 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:55:29pm

re: #605 Racer X

Or the other possibility that no death threats were ever made.

610 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:55:34pm

re: #598 albusteve

who paid for the rebate?

Like all government expenditures, the tax payer.

611 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:55:34pm

re: #584 NJDhockeyfan

/Classy

This dude is my parents' representative. I think I shall forward a link to my father.

612 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:55:50pm

Here, look at this:

Health Care Cheat Sheet (Money-in-Politics Style)

Published by Lindsay Renick Mayer on July 9, 2009 12:43 PM %P% Permalink %P% Comments (0)
(The numbers on the chart on this page were updated on August 4, 2009, to include 2009 second quarter campaign contributions and lobbying expenditures. Please note that all second quarter campaign finance reports are not in and we'll be updating this chart next week when the info is more complete.)

If you've been following the money in the public health care debate with us for the last month, you've probably got a pretty good sense now where it leads. As Congress continues debating the issue, we're making it even easier for you to keep track of the money by comparing the views of the big industries involved and some of the key players in each industry.

Check out how much money they've spent on lobbying expenditures in 2008 and in the first three months of 2009, the total they've given to lawmakers' candidate committees and leadership political action committees since the start of the 2008 election cycle and which party they're bankrolling. (Note: Because PACs may file either on a monthly or semi-annual basis in 2009, many PACs will be reporting for the first time on July 31st, so these figures are subject to change.)

Go to the link and see how much insurance companies are pouring in to DC. $144,738,590 for 2008 and 2009 with 54% going to the Dems and 46% to Republicans.

613 Ojoe  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:56:45pm

re: #492 Coracle

Nice Nic. 'Tis the little Irish boat. Welcome.

614 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:57:03pm

People are pissed. They were lied to. America was promised open debate on any legislation. That was a lie. I do not see it happening on any legislation passed thus far. We just get the same old shit crammed up our asses and we are told to shut up and take it.

Fuck that.

615 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:57:15pm

re: #606 avanti

If so, we've had it for decades with rebates on storm windows, energy efficient furnaces and the like. Not to mention millions in tax breaks for a big businesses to move to your town.

more examples...good job...it's pure socialism that buys voters rather than stimulate anything...how many jobs does this program create?...how does it affect entire communities?...

616 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:57:24pm

One thing that no one else seems to have remarked on:

If the difference between the undergrad and grad level courses as described in Herr Prof. Dr. Demski's syllabus is writing "a 1,500- to 2,000-word critical review of Francis Collins’s The Language of God", then either the undergrads are getting shortchanged or the grads are seriously underworked. The latter's degrees are sold at a discount, or the former's are too dear. Either way, it's one more sign of the decay of Western civilization and the imminent catastrophe foretold by the Mayans.

And so, good night!

617 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:57:38pm

re: #612 Gus 802

Go to the link and see how much insurance companies are pouring in to DC. $144,738,590 for 2008 and 2009 with 54% going to the Dems and 46% to Republicans.

I'm shocked. The lobbyists play both sides of the aisle! Who knew? I heard only the evil Republican Extremists took cash from lobbyists.

618 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:57:38pm

re: #606 avanti

If so, we've had it for decades with rebates on storm windows, energy efficient furnaces and the like. Not to mention millions in tax breaks for a big businesses to move to your town.

Which created millions of jobs in those communities and the government received many more dollars as a result. What has the clunker program done?

619 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:58:04pm

re: #606 avanti

If so, we've had it for decades with rebates on storm windows, energy efficient furnaces and the like. Not to mention millions in tax breaks for a big businesses to move to your town.

These things are called incentives. They do not threaten to take over the furnace or window business.

Tax breaks are local maybe even State, not Federal. Big, big difference.
Unless you are a proponent of an all powerful central government of course. Then I suppose your argument is relevent.

620 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:58:44pm

re: #609 mich-again

Or the other possibility that no death threats were ever made.

I am not going to say for certain that it was made up to get the guy off the hook. But come one. Were the threats credible? Or just some crank?

621 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:58:44pm

re: #617 mich-again

I'm shocked. The lobbyists play both sides of the aisle! Who knew? I heard only the evil Republican Extremists took cash from lobbyists.

Yeah, who'd of thunkit. //

About the only group supporting the public option is the labor unions.

Another surprise!

622 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 8:59:29pm

re: #619 The Shadow Do

These things are called incentives. They do not threaten to take over the furnace or window business.

Tax breaks are local maybe even State, not Federal. Big, big difference.
Unless you are a proponent of an all powerful central government of course. Then I suppose your argument is relevent.

no, the argument is a loser and people know it...that's why they are called Obots

623 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:00:15pm

re: #605 Racer X

Who in their right mind would actually call in a death threat to a politician? Yes, you are correct. A lunatic. The vast majority of 'right-wing' protesters are not lunatics. They just want straight answers. We are being lied to (again) by politicians.

Take a step back and think about it.

Think.

But none of these people are claiming that the vast majority of the right-wing protesters are calling in death threats. Just one here and there. But that's enough to be taken seriously.

On the other hand, they are implying (or in some cases actually stating) that significant numbers of protesters are being paid by insurance companies to go and disrupt town hall meetings. And that irritates me. Everyone should go and watch that video that's currently around the top-rated of the spinoff links. Mike Sola may be a poor soul who is scared because he has been misled, but he's genuine, and there are plenty of others like him.

624 NY Nana  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:00:43pm

re: #584 NJDhockeyfan

In my entire life, I cannot remember anything like this regarding politics.

The Demonrats are really doing themselves damage, thankfully, as they are so full of themselves, they, like The One can say or do anything without being chastised. I personally hope they keep it up.

/I hope that The One still has a lot of that donated beer, as he will say something stupid again.

625 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:00:46pm

re: #618 NJDhockeyfan

What has the clunker program done?


Oily smokescreen.

626 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:01:14pm

re: #620 Racer X

I am not going to say for certain that it was made up to get the guy off the hook. But come one. Were the threats credible? Or just some crank?

Well if the FBI wiretapping net is as menacing and all-encompassing as the libs have been saying it is, they ought to be able to trace the threatening phone call back to the perp in no time.

627 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:02:24pm

re: #626 mich-again

Well if the FBI wiretapping net is as menacing and all-encompassing as the libs have been saying it is, they ought to be able to trace the threatening phone call back to the perp in no time.

You just made 17 people at SEIU headquarters shudder.

628 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:02:45pm

re: #626 mich-again

Well if the FBI wiretapping net is as menacing and all-encompassing as the libs have been saying it is, they ought to be able to trace the threatening phone call back to the perp in no time.

It was only menacing and all-encompassing during the Bush administration.

When Obama took over, he replaced all the wiretaps with flowers and stuff.

629 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:02:48pm

re: #626 mich-again

Well if the FBI wiretapping net is as menacing and all-encompassing as the libs have been saying it is, they ought to be able to trace the threatening phone call back to the perp in no time.

he's probably on his way to Bermuda as we speak

630 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:03:11pm

re: #623 Last Mohican


On the other hand, they are implying (or in some cases actually stating) that significant numbers of protesters are being paid by insurance companies to go and disrupt town hall meetings

When did you stop beating your wife, Senator?

A little evidence goes a very long way.

Demonize your critics. Works for the Dems, works in Chicago..

631 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:03:12pm

re: #627 Racer X

You just made 17 people at SEIU headquarters shudder.

Loves it!

632 jacksontn  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:03:36pm

re: #623 Last Mohican

But none of these people are claiming that the vast majority of the right-wing protesters are calling in death threats. Just one here and there. But that's enough to be taken seriously.

On the other hand, they are implying (or in some cases actually stating) that significant numbers of protesters are being paid by insurance companies to go and disrupt town hall meetings. And that irritates me. Everyone should go and watch that video that's currently around the top-rated of the spinoff links. Mike Sola may be a poor soul who is scared because he has been misled, but he's genuine, and there are plenty of others like him.

LM ... you can make money canvassing for Obamacare ...

$10-$15 hour ...

[Link: losangeles.craigslist.org...]

through this organization ...

[Link: www.fundforthepublicinterest.org...]

633 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:03:54pm

re: #624 NY Nana

In my entire life, I cannot remember anything like this regarding politics.

The Demonrats are really doing themselves damage, thankfully, as they are so full of themselves, they, like The One can say or do anything without being chastised. I personally hope they keep it up.

/I hope that The One still has a lot of that donated beer, as he will say something stupid again.

Can we say hooray!

634 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:04:40pm

re: #618 NJDhockeyfan

Which created millions of jobs in those communities and the government received many more dollars as a result. What has the clunker program done?

Set a car sales record for July, cleaned out 4-6 weeks of inventory and probably gave us the first monthly retail sales increase in over a year. (numbers out tomorrow.) The stock market is up 50% from it's lows. and may go higher.

635 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:05:11pm

re: #624 NY Nana

In my entire life, I cannot remember anything like this regarding politics.

The Demonrats are really doing themselves damage, thankfully, as they are so full of themselves, they, like The One can say or do anything without being chastised. I personally hope they keep it up.

/I hope that The One still has a lot of that donated beer, as he will say something stupid again.

I'm sure the MSM will do it's best to bury those types of stories.

636 WindHorse  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:05:45pm

I am so happy... mmm... smell those roses...mmm... what a good time to be alive!

637 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:05:56pm

re: #632 jacksontn

LM ... you can make money canvassing for Obamacare ...

$10-$15 hour ...

[Link: losangeles.craigslist.org...]

through this organization ...

[Link: www.fundforthepublicinterest.org...]

Well there you have it.

Now who's going to post the link showing us where we can sign up to be paid by insurance companies to disrupt town hall meetings?

638 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:06:04pm

re: #634 avanti

Set a car sales record for July, cleaned out 4-6 weeks of inventory and probably gave us the first monthly retail sales increase in over a year. (numbers out tomorrow.) The stock market is up 50% from it's lows. and may go higher.

so what?...it's socialism...who wouldn't take free money?

639 Cato the Elder  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:06:30pm

No death threats have ever been issued by right-wingers. Much less carried out.

*cough*except these*cough*

Scotsman argument in 3...2...1...

And now goodnight.

640 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:06:48pm

Reality:

Americans are pissed. The economy is in a shambles. The president got everyone all up in arms over the healthcare 'catastrophe'. So now people are really upset, and are wanting to voice their opinions. Well jeez ya dumbshit, perhaps you shouldn't have made everyone think it was such a catastrophe in the first place?

641 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:07:32pm

re: #634 avanti

Set a car sales record for July, cleaned out 4-6 weeks of inventory and probably gave us the first monthly retail sales increase in over a year. (numbers out tomorrow.) The stock market is up 50% from it's lows. and may go higher.

That's good for the dealers. Those eeevil tax breaks for a big businesses created permanent jobs for years. What will the clunker program create?

642 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:07:56pm

re: #641 NJDhockeyfan

Higher consumer debt.

643 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:08:42pm

re: #642 jaunte

Higher consumer debt.

avanti does not care about the rest of us...but he's a nice guy

644 tradewind  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:08:46pm

re: #618 NJDhockeyfan

What has the clunker program done?


Provided the impetus for Obama's next big bailout... of all the poor, deluded people who were duped by unscrupulous car dealers and their in-house finance companies into taking on up to 30K of new debt they couldn't repay.

645 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:09:30pm

re: #639 Cato the Elder

No death threats have ever been issued by right-wingers. Much less carried out.

*cough*except these*cough*

Scotsman argument in 3...2...1...

And now goodnight.

Yeah, but that's almost like pulling a deus ex machina at this point.

646 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:09:45pm

re: #634 avanti

Set a car sales record for July, cleaned out 4-6 weeks of inventory and probably gave us the first monthly retail sales increase in over a year. (numbers out tomorrow.) The stock market is up 50% from it's lows. and may go higher.

That is wonderful news - it really is. But you and I paid for this. Are you certain all of those people are going to afford those new car loans?

$3 billion taxpayer dollars.

Did cars for clunkers benefit GM and Chrysler? How did Honda and Toyota make out? I'm thinking we just helped nail the lid on GM.

647 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:11:11pm

re: #639 Cato the Elder

Those were all anti-government types, neo-nazis, tax rebellion loons...

You label them right-wingers. But KT's article simply referred to the ones making death threats as Republican extremists.

I'll bet you a donut whoever made the death threats, (if anyone did at all) would abhor the label Republican. Just as much as they would deny being a Democrat.

648 jamihabs  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:11:22pm

Just so I have this strait: People with a point of view that is different than what many of us believe, are asked and encouraged to share and defend their point of view with folks who have opposing views. And this is bad?…Am I missing something?

649 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:11:23pm

I killed the thread.

You bastard!

650 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:11:25pm

re: #78 LoquaciousLady

I'm late tonight, but welcome aboard!

651 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:11:25pm

re: #641 NJDhockeyfan

That's good for the dealers. Those eeevil tax breaks for a big businesses created permanent jobs for years. What will the clunker program create?

GM and Chrysler were on their knees, with a 90-120 inventory and 2010's coming soon. If it clears those cars out, and gets customers in the showrooms, it could have a long term effect. I also found out the program is driving used car sales to folks that were at the dealer and did not qualify for the rebate or financing.

652 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:11:55pm

re: #646 Racer X

That is wonderful news - it really is. But you and I paid for this. Are you certain all of those people are going to afford those new car loans?

$3 billion taxpayer dollars.

Did cars for clunkers benefit GM and Chrysler? How did Honda and Toyota make out? I'm thinking we just helped nail the lid on GM.


IIRC, in the top 10 cars bought with cash for clunkers, there were 2 fords, 1 Dodge and 1 GM. The rest were Toyotas, etc.

653 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:12:07pm

re: #632 jacksontn

LM ... you can make money canvassing for Obamacare ...

$10-$15 hour ...

[Link: losangeles.craigslist.org...]

through this organization ...

[Link: www.fundforthepublicinterest.org...]

Hey... Obama's creating jobs just like he said he would!!!

654 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:12:11pm

re: #640 Racer X

Reality:

Americans are pissed. The economy is in a shambles. The president got everyone all up in arms over the healthcare 'catastrophe'. So now people are really upset, and are wanting to voice their opinions. Well jeez ya dumbshit, perhaps you shouldn't have made everyone think it was such a catastrophe in the first place?

Quite Concur. Obama caused all this commotion by trying to railroad his bill through Congress. Even if he felt it had to be passed this summer for fear of it being lost in the shuffle; By pushing for speed like he did, he convinced people that he had something to hide. And so they got angry when he kept pushing and not listening. The shouting at these meeting reflects people's normal desire to be heard and not simply gainsaid. Some have gone much too far, but the overall message has been entirely with bounds.

655 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:12:14pm

re: #640 Racer X

Reality:

Americans are pissed. The economy is in a shambles. The president got everyone all up in arms over the healthcare 'catastrophe'. So now people are really upset, and are wanting to voice their opinions. Well jeez ya dumbshit, perhaps you shouldn't have made everyone think it was such a catastrophe in the first place?

The economy is a leaky rowboat, but no matter. The administration, in its idealogical zeal, continues to push for its fanciful vision of hope & change.

Shooting holes in the lifeboat and tossing aboard all possible spending ballast. Folks know this is bad - instinctively, and that is why some are acting up.

656 Irish Rose  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:12:15pm

Good evening, lizards.
Home from a long, restful weekend away.

And home to another rejection letter in the mail box.

Good thing I don't allow myself to hope anymore, it makes the constant stream of rejection letters easier to take.

657 NY Nana  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:12:35pm

re: #628 Last Mohican

It was only menacing and all-encompassing during the Bush administration.

When Obama took over, he replaced all the wiretaps with flowers and stuff.

/Ah, but President Bush had the better dog!

658 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:13:22pm

Yikes, was looking at Pelosi's personal finances.

I have to admit. I'm jealous.

659 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:13:37pm

re: #652 VioletTiger

The New York Times Business Section, top 10 cash for clunkers cars:

10. Chevrolet Cobalt

9. Honda Fit

8. Dodge Caliber

7. Hyundai Elantra

6. Ford Escape

5. Toyota Camry

4. Toyota Prius

3. Honda Civic

2. Toyota Corolla

1. Ford Focus

660 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:13:39pm

re: #651 avanti

GM and Chrysler were on their knees, with a 90-120 inventory and 2010's coming soon. If it clears those cars out, and gets customers in the showrooms, it could have a long term effect. I also found out the program is driving used car sales to folks that were at the dealer and did not qualify for the rebate or financing.

they should have rejected federal interference and declared bankrupcy...I don't want a stake in GM or in clunkers...why do you so easily discount the will of the people?

661 mich-again  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:14:12pm

re: #656 Irish Rose

Glad to have you back.

662 VioletTiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:15:25pm

re: #656 Irish Rose

Good evening, lizards.
Home from a long, restful weekend away.

And home to another rejection letter in the mail box.

Good thing I don't allow myself to hope anymore, it makes the constant stream of rejection letters easier to take.

{Irish}
You will prevail.

663 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:15:38pm
Cash For Clunkers*

*must purchase a new GM or Chrysler car.


Now wouldn't that have made more sense?

664 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:15:49pm

re: #659 jaunte

The New York Times Business Section, top 10 cash for clunkers cars:

10. Chevrolet Cobalt

9. Honda Fit

8. Dodge Caliber

7. Hyundai Elantra

6. Ford Escape

5. Toyota Camry

4. Toyota Prius

3. Honda Civic

2. Toyota Corolla

1. Ford Focus

Ford Focus number one. Regardless of the CFC I have to admit I've been singing Ford's praises for having that car in their lineup over the years. Even though I don't own one.

665 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:16:26pm

re: #663 Racer X

Now wouldn't that have made more sense?

Then they could have renamed the program Cash for Clunkers and Clunkers for Cash.

666 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:16:40pm

re: #644 tradewind

Provided the impetus for Obama's next big bailout... of all the poor, deluded people who were duped by unscrupulous car dealers and their in-house finance companies into taking on up to 30K of new debt they couldn't repay.

But just think of the jobs that will create:

Now hiring:

Automotive re-possession specialists. Must be able to get into a locked autombile, hot wired and gone in less than 60 seconds. Bullet-proof vest and references required.

667 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:17:44pm

The U.S. Government owns a stake in GM and Chrysler. Why wouldn't the government help sell a few of our products? Is that really an unfair advantage to Honda and Toyota?

668 NY Nana  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:17:54pm

re: #633 Walter L. Newton

Can we say hooray!

Hopefully hip, hip, hooray! In about 2 weeks, I would guess. He invariably will say and or do something stupid.

669 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:17:58pm

re: #651 avanti

GM and Chrysler were on their knees, with a 90-120 inventory and 2010's coming soon. If it clears those cars out, and gets customers in the showrooms, it could have a long term effect. I also found out the program is driving used car sales to folks that were at the dealer and did not qualify for the rebate or financing.

This is temporary IMHO. When the clunker program is over watch what happens to car sales.

670 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:18:54pm

re: #646 Racer X

That is wonderful news - it really is. But you and I paid for this. Are you certain all of those people are going to afford those new car loans?

$3 billion taxpayer dollars.

Did cars for clunkers benefit GM and Chrysler? How did Honda and Toyota make out? I'm thinking we just helped nail the lid on GM.

GM sold the biggest percentage of cars, Ford did well and so did the American made Honda and Toyota models. Chrysler came in last in sales, but are still down to a 30 day inventory of new cars, from 150-180 days and up 30% from June .

C4C.

671 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:19:14pm

re: #663 Racer X

Now wouldn't that have made more sense?

of course...the whole notion is just so absurd, it's hard for me to believe anyone would defend it...it's govt intrusion and creates an artificial demand by giving away money!...astounding

672 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:19:45pm

re: #669 NJDhockeyfan

This is temporary IMHO. When the clunker program is over watch what happens to car sales.

Look for more billions pumped into the very successful CFC program.

Quagmire!

673 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:20:04pm

re: #669 NJDhockeyfan

This is temporary IMHO. When the clunker program is over watch what happens to car sales.

Agreed. The program is creating artificial demand and once again extending credit to people who should not have it. History repeats itself: Once as tragedy, the second time as farce. [facepalm]

674 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:20:19pm

re: #538 Coracle

In real reality, I've been on enough proposal review panels to know that is dead wrong.

And is your field heavily politicized and dependent on government money worldwide? All science eventually becomes politicized.

675 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:20:34pm

re: #654 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. Obama caused all this commotion by trying to railroad his bill through Congress.

My sense is that the Republican Party is blowing it, by not having a strong enough presence in the media explaining exactly why they think this bill is so bad for everyone. I think the bill is so long and complicated that nobody has actually read it. These town hall meetings should be debates between pro-bill and anti-bill experts. Instead, they're just clueless Democratic congressmen spouting off about how the bill will cure cancer and make unicorns fly through your window, getting yelled at by Republicans who are understandably freaked out because they read that Obama wants to kill their children and turn them into compost.

676 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:20:43pm

re: #653 Pianobuff

Hey... Obama's creating jobs just like he said he would!!!

You do know anyone can post a Crag's list ad do you not ? The link is to a real organization, but who knows about the ad.

677 Equable  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:21:18pm

I drove through the Cerritos Auto Square earlier on my way to the Guitar Center.

They are REALLY shoving this "Cash For Clunkers" as far down our throats as they can there. They were displaying perfectly serviceable, yet “qualified” cars that were put on display before their inevitable slaughter.

Wow, how dramatic of me.

678 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:21:18pm
679 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:21:51pm

re: #673 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. The program is creating artificial demand and once again extending credit to people who should not have it. History repeats itself: Once as tragedy, the second time as farce. [facepalm]

Oh come on. I'm pretty sure the car dealers put the buyers under a great deal of financial scrutiny as they always do.

//

680 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:22:20pm

re: #671 albusteve

of course...the whole notion is just so absurd, it's hard for me to believe anyone would defend it...it's govt intrusion and creates an artificial demand by giving away money!...astounding

Govt gives you money to buy car. Then they tax you on the money they gave you. Why not just give people a tax write off if you provide a copy of a receipt for a new car in FY 2009?

Would that have been so hard to do?

681 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:23:26pm

re: #643 albusteve

avanti does not care about the rest of us...but he's a nice guy

Worry about yourself first, and it's likely you won't need my help. Read Ayn Rand's Virtue of Selfishness. I am not responsible for your happiness.

682 Ojoe  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:23:44pm

re: #624 NY Nana

In my entire life, I cannot remember anything like this regarding politics.


Well IMHO it comes from the top ...

Can you imagine if any president since 1860 had said "typical black person?"

Yet here we have a man who says the equivalent, yes the equivalent, and, mirable dictu, gets elected president.

I do not like this at all, it is very very bad.

683 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:24:43pm

re: #564 ludwigvanquixote

That only proves how little of the research you have seen. Would you care to look at it?

To quote the good Dr Feynman, “It is scientific only to say what is more likely and what less likely,” Science does not deal in absolutes.

684 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:24:47pm

re: #680 Racer X

Govt gives you money to buy car. Then they tax you on the money they gave you. Why not just give people a tax write off if you provide a copy of a receipt for a new car in FY 2009?

Would that have been so hard to do?

Not hard, but you know...sort of smells all Republican and such

685 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:25:07pm

re: #679 Gus 802

Oh come on. I'm pretty sure the car dealers put the buyers under a great deal of financial scrutiny as they always do.

//

Tell me about it, the new credit standards are tough. I had friends with good credit and the rebate that had to add cash to the deal. The credit rules are still very tight.

686 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:25:24pm

re: #673 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. The program is creating artificial demand and once again extending credit to people who should not have it. History repeats itself: Once as tragedy, the second time as farce. [facepalm]

Is Barry going to bail out people who we're extended credit who didn't deserve it by unscrupulous car dealers when the re-po man comes to pick up the car they can't afford to pay for?

687 albusteve  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:25:47pm

re: #681 avanti

Worry about yourself first, and it's likely you won't need my help. Read Ayn Rand's Virtue of Selfishness. I am not responsible for your happiness.

what is so hard about minding your own business?...why do liberals have to intrude on my life and take my money to make you happy?...that is just fundamentally wrong

688 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:25:58pm

re: #676 avanti

You do know anyone can post a Crag's list ad do you not ? The link is to a real organization, but who knows about the ad.

There is no way in hell an SEIU member instigated violence at a town hall meeting. But it is entirely plausible that some right winger, posed as an Obama supporter, placed an ad on craigslist.

Really?

689 JacksonTn  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:26:31pm

re: #676 avanti

You do know anyone can post a Crag's list ad do you not ? The link is to a real organization, but who knows about the ad.

avanti ... did you click on the link to the non-profit organization? ... they are advertising on their website for jobs canvassing for Obama healthcare ... there is nothing illegal about it ... I was just pointing out that they are organizing people to go out and work organizing ... and they are paying for it ...

690 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:26:38pm

re: #639 Cato the Elder

No death threats have ever been issued by right-wingers. Much less carried out.

*cough*except these*cough*

Scotsman argument in 3...2...1...

And now goodnight.

Posting a list of outrageous radical acts then heading to bed with a Scotsman argument taunt? What a way to operate.

Anything said in defense will allow you an I told you so.

Radical leftist terror and radical right. Somewhere they meet in that place where all the sick and twisted souls dwell.

691 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:26:39pm

re: #685 avanti

Tell me about it, the new credit standards are tough. I had friends with good credit and the rebate that had to add cash to the deal. The credit rules are still very tight.

They are? I was being sarcastic. Typically you tell them you make a certain amount and they inflate it on the application. Or deflate the expenses. I know that's not always the case but it's what's done.

692 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:26:43pm

re: #676 avanti

You do know anyone can post a Crag's list ad do you not ? The link is to a real organization, but who knows about the ad.

I thought you might say that. Read this.

693 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:27:03pm

re: #680 Racer X

Govt gives you money to buy car. Then they tax you on the money they gave you. Why not just give people a tax write off if you provide a copy of a receipt for a new car in FY 2009?

Would that have been so hard to do?


They do not tax you on the rebate, but some states do charge the full sales price for sales tax. No federal tax, and a deduction for the sales tax.

694 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:27:04pm

re: #686 sngnsgt

Is Barry going to bail out people who we're extended credit who didn't deserve it by unscrupulous car dealers when the re-po man comes to pick up the car they can't afford to pay for?

Obama won't bail them out, but he might make us bail them out.

695 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:27:21pm

re: #641 NJDhockeyfan

What will the clunker program create?

An increase in price for parts on older cars.

696 Outrider  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:27:46pm
AP410 — This is the undegrad course.

Can we assume Spellchecker is not available? Not very professional.

697 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:27:58pm

re: #83 KingKenrod

I'm a Christian. What they're selling isn't reality. It's straight out propaganda. I'm all about proselytizing, it's just that I'm about proselytizing reality, not intentional distortions. What Dembski is doing is selling a lie and calling it "theological truth". It isn't. And there are more than enough thinking Christians out there who can attest to that, including Francis Collins, and my personal favorite, Denis Alexander, who wrote Creation or Evolution: Do We have to Choose? Check him out at the Faraday institute. It takes some time. and it takes some thinking through the issues. But yes; you can be a Christian and believe in evolutionary biology and cosmology. Accepting the process is NOT buying into materialistic naturalism. ID'ers and Richard Dawkins would both like you to believe that. It isn't true and it isn't necessary. believe me, I'm one who believes in the process of evolution and believes in God. They're both fundies looking to aviod real debate.

698 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:29:03pm

re: #689 JacksonTn

avanti ... did you click on the link to the non-profit organization? ... they are advertising on their website for jobs canvassing for Obama healthcare ... there is nothing illegal about it ... I was just pointing out that they are organizing people to go out and work organizing ... and they are paying for it ...

And George Soros is bankrolling it.

In another sign of the urgency gripping the pro-health care reform camp, billionaire George Soros has pledged to sink $5 million into the fight, the group getting the money confirmed.

Soros — whose operation carefully guards the privacy of such donations — made the pledge to Health Care For America Now, the leading coalition of pro-reform groups, unions and providers, HCAN chief Richard Kirsch confirmed in an email that was forwarded to me.

Kirsch was asked by a prominent liberal blogger to comment for a post on Soros’ $5 million pledge, which the blogger had heard about. “Thanks for the heads up,” Kirsch emailed in reply. “HCAN is pleased to be supported by people and organizations who support our campaign to win quality, affordable health care for all.”

The blogger, who didn’t end up writing about the donation, passed the email along, and an HCAN spokesperson didn’t dispute the email or the figure when I asked about it.

The Soros pledge is noteworthy, because both sides will seize on it. The right will say it shows the real astroturfing is coming from the pro-reform side — billionaire bogeyman Soros is bankrolling this fight!

699 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:30:01pm

re: #693 avanti

But wouldn't a tax credit have been easier all around?

Unless one of the real reasons was to get those damn SUVs off the road and into a landfill?

700 JacksonTn  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:30:25pm

re: #698 NJDhockeyfan

NJDHF ... George is not my favorite person ...

701 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:30:27pm

re: #688 Racer X

There is no way in hell an SEIU member instigated violence at a town hall meeting. But it is entirely plausible that some right winger, posed as an Obama supporter, placed an ad on craigslist.

Really?


re: #689 JacksonTn

avanti ... did you click on the link to the non-profit organization? ... they are advertising on their website for jobs canvassing for Obama healthcare ... there is nothing illegal about it ... I was just pointing out that they are organizing people to go out and work organizing ... and they are paying for it ...

The web site is real, just not sure about the unprofessional "heath care ad" posted and link to it.

702 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:30:31pm

re: #692 Pianobuff

I thought you might say that. Read this.

From "Progressive Future:"

Fight the health care hecklers in your state

The same right wing Washington lobby shops that brought us the fake-grassroots anti-tax “Tea Parties” have launched a coordinated plan to disrupt town hall meetings and other public events by heckling and booing members of Congress. All in the name of preventing millions of Americans from accessing quality, low-cost health care.

Will you help us fight back by showing up for an event in your area? We need to show our Representatives and Senators that the vast majority of their constituents want reform now, and that the right wing fringe doesn’t speak for us. Sparks may fly at these meetings so it should be really interesting and fun--not to mention the most important way we can win the health care fight this summer.

If you live in one of the following states, click on the link to see a list of events and sign up:

It's like the whole Left Wing has decided to convert itself into one giant irony factory.

703 NY Nana  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:31:16pm

re: #678 MikeySDCA

Bambi is a four flusher and a lame. The American people and, slowly, the MSM are beginning to figure that out. The reaction is beginning, but it will get very interesting.

From your mouse to G-d's ears!

The One isn't even that good, BTW.

704 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:31:19pm

re: #675 Last Mohican

My sense is that the Republican Party is blowing it, by not having a strong enough presence in the media explaining exactly why they think this bill is so bad for everyone. I think the bill is so long and complicated that nobody has actually read it. These town hall meetings should be debates between pro-bill and anti-bill experts. Instead, they're just clueless Democratic congressmen spouting off about how the bill will cure cancer and make unicorns fly through your window, getting yelled at by Republicans who are understandably freaked out because they read that Obama wants to kill their children and turn them into compost.

I fear you are right. Hopefully, the ads Dick Morris is getting prepped to run later this month will help in that regard. Still, we need our own town halls, to get our points out. Some GOP congressmen are doing this on their own initiative but such actions must be expanded. The people who shouted to get attention must now sit with their fellow conservatives and discussion how we will use that attention. Protests are fine as Act 1. We need an Act 2 and we need it yesterday. The Republican national organization needs to get organized and get to work.

705 Randall Gross  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:32:05pm

Time for me to get some sleeps, but I'll leave you with a fitting music vid for the times

706 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:32:28pm

I don't know who got hit in the head with the clue-stick, but this is great news...

Honduras Has Won


Diplomacy: In a quiet victory for a tiny democracy, U.S. buttinskies have stopped trying to restore a dictator to power in South America. Tiny Honduras is winning its fight for freedom.

In a welcome about-face, the State Department told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's Richard Lugar, R-Ind., in a letter Tuesday that the U.S. would no longer threaten sanctions on Honduras for ousting its president, Mel Zelaya, last June 28.

Nor will it insist on Zelaya's return to power. As it turns out, the U.S. Senate can't find any legal reason why the Honduran Supreme Court's refusal to let Zelaya stay in office beyond the time allowed by Honduran law constitutes a "military coup."

This marks a shift. The U.S. at first supported Zelaya, a man who had been elected democratically but didn't govern that way. Now they're reaching out to average Hondurans, the real democrats.

Sure, the U.S. continues to condemn Zelaya's ouster and still seeks mediation of the dispute through Costa Rican President Oscar Arias. But no U.S. sanctions means Hondurans have won.

Things could have worked out differently. Venezuela's Hugo Chavez first called for invading Honduras. That threat passed as it became clear Chavez couldn't project his power there.

Next, civil unrest was threatened by Zelaya. But Hondurans astounded the world by standing by their Congress, Supreme Court, attorney general, businesses and the church, all of which declared that Zelaya had violated the constitution and had to go.

Zelaya might have regained power, but only by becoming a dictator and ending Honduras' democracy. The people ended that.

The scariest outcome for Honduras was U.S. sanctions. They would have crushed the tiny country dependent on the U.S. for 80% of its trade. No sanctions, no Zelaya.

This isn't to say U.S. policymakers are happy or that the dispute is over. Honduras is still suspended from the Organization of American States, its trade has been disrupted, Venezuela's oil is still cut off, and its officials still can't get U.S. visas. But the worst is over. Whatever changes that come will be by Honduran consent alone.

The U.S. still supports Arias' mediation, and if that helps, good.

By ending the threats, talks can begin. Constructive solutions, like early elections or persuading Honduras' congress to add an impeachment law to its constitution, can now be put on the table.

The reality is, the Hondurans shouldn't be on the spot at all. What happened wasn't a coup; it was a good-faith effort by decent people to fix a difficult situation that threatened their democracy.

This, by the way, also opens the door to a return of democracy in troubled nations like Ecuador, Nicaragua, Bolivia, Cuba and Venezuela. People in those nations can take courage from Honduras.

The U.S. was smart to take the side of freedom. The Hondurans, however, were right all along. After all, it's their democracy. And now they've won it back.

707 swamprat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:32:50pm

re: #681 avanti

That whirring sound you hear is the unequaled Miss Rand, spinning in her grave, knowing that
you
quoted
her

!

708 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:33:05pm

re: #698 NJDhockeyfan

Look at any lefty movement and chances are good you'll find George Soros' money in there somewhere. Darth Soros' hand is everywhere.

709 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:34:01pm

re: #702 Last Mohican

"win the healthcare fight"

That tells me all I really need to know. This is a game to them. They want to 'win', and they want the right to lose.

Fuck me.

Health care is not a 'right' or 'left' program. It is an American program.

Oh, and btw, Healthcare is NOT a right. It is a perk that the citizens ALL pay for.

710 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:34:09pm

re: #699 Racer X

But wouldn't a tax credit have been easier all around?

Unless one of the real reasons was to get those damn SUVs off the road and into a landfill?

A tax credit equal the rebate for a C4C deal would be the same thing as far as I'm concerned. i.e. the $1500 tax credit on my furnace is the same as me getting a check for $1500, I just take it off my taxes.

711 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:34:34pm

Good evening morning y'all! How is everyone doing tonight?

712 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:34:48pm

re: #706 Pianobuff

I don't know who got hit in the head with the clue-stick, but this is great news...

Honduras Has Won

That is indeed great news. For Honduras. Not necessarily for Barack Obama, who may not find the warm hugs so forthcoming when he next visits his good buddy Hugo "The Jews killed Jesus and now they're trying to control the world" Chavez.

713 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:35:28pm

re: #707 swamprat

That whirring sound you hear is the unequaled Miss Rand, spinning in her grave, knowing that
you
quoted
her

!

I have read all in books, some things I agree with, some I do not.

714 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:35:47pm
715 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:35:48pm

re: #694 Dark_Falcon

Obama won't bail them out, but he might make us bail them out.

And if/when he does, he's going make us pay for it with higher gas prices and higher interest to buy a car in the first place.

716 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:35:50pm

re: #710 avanti

A tax credit equal the rebate for a C4C deal would be the same thing as far as I'm concerned. i.e. the $1500 tax credit on my furnace is the same as me getting a check for $1500, I just take it off my taxes.

Thank you!

A tax credit would have been easier on everyone involved. Buuut Nooo.

717 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:36:10pm

re: #711 realwest

Good evening morning y'all! How is everyone doing tonight?

Doing well out here on the right coast. How are you realwest?

718 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:36:39pm

re: #706 Pianobuff

I don't know who got hit in the head with the clue-stick, but this is great news...

Honduras Has Won

That is good news.

719 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:37:53pm

re: #711 realwest

Good evening morning y'all! How is everyone doing tonight?

Having a blast here on the Left Coast.

720 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:38:12pm

re: #711 realwest

Oh crap, that means it's already too late for me to be posting and getting ready for my trip. Other than that I'm doing great!

721 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:38:15pm

re: #711 realwest

Good evening morning y'all! How is everyone doing tonight?

I'm all right. Had a great sales day today that made up for a crappy weekend. We're still talking health care so don't be surprise if you end up thinking "This is where I came in."

722 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:38:22pm

re: #692 Pianobuff

I thought you might say that. Read this.

They use High School and College kids for canvassing which is why they advertised heavily on Craigs List.

723 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:39:11pm

re: #711 realwest

Howdy RW!

724 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:39:12pm

re: #710 avanti

A tax credit equal the rebate for a C4C deal would be the same thing as far as I'm concerned. i.e. the $1500 tax credit on my furnace is the same as me getting a check for $1500, I just take it off my taxes.

Except for the fact that the clunkers are being destroyed instead of being traded in and resold to families who could afford them. The engines are destroyed to the point that they can't be used for parts. Now what will they do with thousands of engines...bury them in the landfills? I thought O cared about the environment.

725 The Shadow Do  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:39:23pm

re: #706 Pianobuff

I will not forget that Obama's immediate and default position was to support the over ambitious totalitarian wannabe. That goes way beyond troubling.

726 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:39:35pm

There's always creationist stuff!

727 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:41:12pm

re: #726 Irenicum

There's always creationist stuff!

You mean like the creationist banana and the petrified brain? /

728 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:41:20pm

re: #717 Last Mohican
HI Last Mohican - I'm doing ok, just really tired. But I still have one more damn med to take before I can sleep, so I figured why not come out and see what's going on!
Glad to hear you're doing well!

729 JacksonTn  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:41:32pm

re: #701 avanti

The web site is real, just not sure about the unprofessional "heath care ad" posted and link to it.

avanti ... well, I am not going to call the number on the site but here is the link to their current partner list which it clearly says on this page on the right side on their website :

[Link: www.fundforthepublicinterest.org...]

now go to the current partner listed:

[Link: www.progressivefuture.org...]

you decide ...

730 NY Nana  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:41:47pm

I am off to sleep!

G'nite, Lizards, sweet dreams!

This is my 3 grandkids' favorite...the almost-3 year old grandson adores it, and th 6 and 9 year old granddaughters still have their dog-eaten books.

731 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:42:17pm

re: #719 Silvergirl
Oh sure, you left coast types are always having a good time when I'm trying to keep my eyes open! LOL!

732 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:42:43pm

re: #730 NY Nana

I am off to sleep!

G'nite, Lizards, sweet dreams!

This is my 3 grandkids' favorite...the almost-3 year old grandson adores it, and th 6 and 9 year old granddaughters still have their dog-eaten books.


[Video]

A well-loved classic!

733 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:42:59pm

re: #706 Pianobuff

I don't know who got hit in the head with the clue-stick, but this is great news...

Honduras Has Won

There is no "fear" of Obama's actions so I'm sure State is letting this go since it only makes them look bad and backs them into a corner.

734 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:43:03pm

re: #720 Irenicum
WHOA! When is your trip - I mean what time do you need to get up and at 'em?

735 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:43:07pm

re: #716 Racer X

Thank you!

A tax credit would have been easier on everyone involved. Buuut Nooo.

Maybe, but it would not have sold as many cars. the $4500 up front, comes off the sticker on the day of the sale, and not April 15 th and that's makes it a better deal. In my one friends case, she was able to pay the difference in cash on a 10K new car with the rebate.

736 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:43:21pm

re: #727 Gus 802

Um. Maybe? Just sayin' that this thread started out pointing out ID idiocy.

737 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:43:28pm

re: #722 Wendya

They use High School and College kids for canvassing which is why they advertised heavily on Craigs List.

To be honest, when it's all above-board, legal (e.g. not like ACORN fraudulent voter registration for instance), and privately funded I have no issues with this. In some ways, I'm impressed with the organizational and logistics skills the left uses to pull this off - so I'm hardly a critic.

What's rich to me though is the irony - or "irony factory" as Last Mohican put it - of the left who is screaming bloody murder about non-authentic faux grass roots protesters. You know, where most of the signs look like homemade crafts projects instead of the high-tech professional mass-produced signs Obamacare supporters are donning.

They irony factory is open for triple shifts to get product out, that's for sure!

738 swamprat  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:43:40pm

re: #713 avanti

I have read all in books, some things I agree with, some I do not.


A communist is someone who has read Marx;
A conservative is is someone who understood what Marx wrote.

extrapolate as needed

Fun aside, I have this deal going, and the guys insist I be able to function enough to justify the blue piece of paper they give me , which I can then trade for money.
It's some sort of profit deal.

night all

739 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:43:58pm

re: #731 realwest

Oh sure, you left coast types are always having a good time when I'm trying to keep my eyes open! LOL!

And then when I'm stumbling around in pj's, you're bright-eyed and hard at work solving world problems on LGF!

740 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:44:41pm

re: #734 realwest

Too soon to mention!

741 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:44:47pm

re: #721 Dark_Falcon
OY, we're still talking health care "reform"?
Well I said about all I feel I need to say at #512 on the Palin thread. And I'm too sad and pissed off to repeat it.

742 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:45:19pm
743 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:45:28pm

re: #723 Racer X
Howdy Racer X - how are y'all doing this morning?

744 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:45:53pm

re: #728 realwest

HI Last Mohican - I'm doing ok, just really tired. But I still have one more damn med to take before I can sleep, so I figured why not come out and see what's going on!
Glad to hear you're doing well!

Sorry to hear you're still so fatigued. It's too bad there isn't some simple fix for that.

745 jaunte  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:46:04pm

Goodnight all. here's a thought to ponder from Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 about 'social justice':

"We must all be alike. Not everyone born free and equal, as the Constitution says, but everyone made equal. Each man the image of every other; then all are happy, for there are no mountains to make them cower, to judge themselves against."

746 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:46:05pm

re: #736 Irenicum

Um. Maybe? Just sayin' that this thread started out pointing out ID idiocy.

That it did. Something about Darwinian materialism and a correlation to eugenics, abortion, Satan, etc.

Don't mind me my head is still under the influence of the flu.

747 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:46:16pm

re: #725 The Shadow Do

I will not forget that Obama's immediate and default position was to support the over ambitious totalitarian wannabe. That goes way beyond troubling.

Nor I, but for the moment I'm so happy for the Hondurans, for whom this was a survival issue.

748 Desert Dog  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:46:21pm

re: #710 avanti

A tax credit equal the rebate for a C4C deal would be the same thing as far as I'm concerned. i.e. the $1500 tax credit on my furnace is the same as me getting a check for $1500, I just take it off my taxes.

Those rebates are only for the super high end 15 seer models and higher. I live in AZ and my wife will not put up with crappy A/C, and, I can afford the better model. Most people cannot. My heat pump unit cost $6750...with the rebate from the Feds and the local electric company, SRP, it was knocked down to $5000...still quite expensive for most people. Considering the 14 seer model was cheaper, even with the rebate, it makes one wonder. A 14 seer unit, here at least, is still pretty good. It will take 10 years for the 15 seer model to pay for itself. The 14 would have made up the difference in 5.

749 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:46:30pm

I step away for a few and you guys post 150 posts? Everyone is really awake tonite.

750 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:46:42pm

re: #729 JacksonTn
Good morning JacksonTn! Nicely done. Very nicely done.

751 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:46:55pm

Yeah, it just got real busy!

752 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:47:10pm

re: #746 Gus 802

That it did. Something about Darwinian materialism and a correlation to eugenics, abortion, Satan, etc.

Don't mind me my head is still under the influence of the flu.

And Rules for Radicals- Jesus Edition.

753 JacksonTn  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:47:42pm

re: #750 realwest

Good morning JacksonTn! Nicely done. Very nicely done.

RW ... hey and I hope you get to feeling better ... I am going to bed ... good night ...

754 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:48:31pm

re: #746 Gus 802

That's fine. I'm still getting ready for the big NYC road trip!

755 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:48:58pm

re: #742 MikeySDCA

A liberal is a conservative who has been mugged.

A conservative is a liberal who has been busted.

I think you have that backwards:

A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.

A liberal is a conservative who has been busted.

756 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:49:01pm

re: #752 Sharmuta

And Rules for Radicals- Jesus Edition.

Yeah, the Alinsky/ID convergence.

Now if you were to ask me 25 years ago if I had an inkling this might happen my answer would have been a resounding "no."

757 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:49:48pm

re: #742 MikeySDCA

A liberal is a conservative who has been mugged.

A conservative is a liberal who has been busted.

I always thought it was:

A liberal is a conservative who has NOT been mugged.

758 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:49:49pm

re: #734 realwest

Uh, to be precise. 6am. Ugh!

759 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:49:49pm

re: #735 avanti
Good morning avanti! Say listen, on that Cash4Clunkers deal, I understand it's a good deal for a number of people, but do you think it might hurt car sales down the road, so to speak?
I mean if so many folks are turning in their jalopies for new cars now, then they probably won't be buying new cars say in winter or spring or even summer of next year, right? So won't those seasonal sales figures be somewhat askew?

760 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:50:04pm

re: #749 ggt

I step away for a few and you guys post 150 posts? Everyone is really awake tonite.

Our midwestern contingent needs something to do while they finish polishing off their portions of the world's longest BLT sandwich.

761 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:50:09pm
762 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:50:14pm

re: #754 Irenicum

That's fine. I'm still getting ready for the big NYC road trip!

Nice. Going to the Museum of Natural History?

763 Desert Dog  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:51:18pm

For those of you that like a good stiff bowl of ice cream,

Viagra ice cream to go on sale at Selfridges

764 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:52:06pm

re: #762 Gus 802

I hadn't thought of that. But now I'll try! Went there as a kid. Loved it!

765 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:52:14pm

re: #737 Pianobuff Um, who is it that's paying those "Canvassers"?

766 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:52:18pm

re: #759 realwest

Good morning avanti! Say listen, on that Cash4Clunkers deal, I understand it's a good deal for a number of people, but do you think it might hurt car sales down the road, so to speak?
I mean if so many folks are turning in their jalopies for new cars now, then they probably won't be buying new cars say in winter or spring or even summer of next year, right? So won't those seasonal sales figures be somewhat askew?

Well that's a good point. But it seems like the whole point of the stimulus is for the government to spend money on something, anything, right now, and then everything else is supposed to just take care of itself.

767 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:52:21pm

re: #729 JacksonTn

avanti ... well, I am not going to call the number on the site but here is the link to their current partner list which it clearly says on this page on the right side on their website :

[Link: www.fundforthepublicinterest.org...]

now go to the current partner listed:

[Link: www.progressivefuture.org...]

you decide ...

I did not see a number on the Craigs list ad, just on the links attached.
example:
HELP PASS OBAMA'S PLANS AND EARN $325-550 A WEEK!!! (Berkeley)

Then it says see link below. I could add a dozen like it in a few minutes, not saying they are not real, but who knows. It's easy for anyone to spoof a ad. In any event, paid canvassers are common on both sides.

768 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:52:27pm

re: #763 Desert Dog

For those of you that like a good stiff bowl of ice cream,

Viagra ice cream to go on sale at Selfridges

Are frozen bananas available?

769 Desert Dog  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:52:42pm

re: #762 Gus 802

Nice. Going to the Museum of Natural History?

No visit to NY is complete without a visit to the Metropolitan Museum, right across Central Park from the MoNH...I LOVE NYC...no other place like it on this planet!

770 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:53:01pm

re: #763 Desert Dog

For those of you that like a good stiff bowl of ice cream,

Viagra ice cream to go on sale at Selfridges

If the brain freeze last for longer than 4 hours, see your doctor.

771 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:53:15pm

re: #737 Pianobuff

What's rich to me though is the irony - or "irony factory" as Last Mohican put it - of the left who is screaming bloody murder about non-authentic faux grass roots protesters. You know, where most of the signs look like homemade crafts projects instead of the high-tech professional mass-produced signs Obamacare supporters are donning.

They irony factory is open for triple shifts to get product out, that's for sure!

That was the intended point in reporting the listing. The left is suggesting people who don't support the bill are paid stooges (where's my check?) yet when they want to mobilize, they pay people to agitate on their behalf.

772 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:53:29pm

Hey gang, I'll post from NY. Luv y'all! Peace out! Time for bed!!!

773 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:53:40pm

re: #741 realwest

OY, we're still talking health care "reform"?
Well I said about all I feel I need to say at #512 on the Palin thread. And I'm too sad and pissed off to repeat it.

I just went and read that post. I agree with you entirely.

774 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:53:55pm

re: #741 realwest

OY, we're still talking health care "reform"?
Well I said about all I feel I need to say at #512 on the Palin thread. And I'm too sad and pissed off to repeat it.

You have a right to be, but you also do us a service by writing, not so much as an "impartial judge" as you called yourself but as someone who is a member of that too-large population of folks who stand to lose most in this reform.

775 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:54:17pm

re: #764 Irenicum

I hadn't thought of that. But now I'll try! Went there as a kid. Loved it!

Same here. I lived in Brooklyn up until 1969. Was just a little kid of course. Going up the Hudson is nice but that takes some time. West Point and all.

776 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:54:19pm

re: #765 realwest

Um, who is it that's paying those "Canvassers"?

Well I don't really know, but here's what George Sargant says:

In another sign of the urgency gripping the pro-health care reform camp, billionaire George Soros has pledged to sink $5 million into the fight, the group getting the money confirmed.

Soros — whose operation carefully guards the privacy of such donations — made the pledge to Health Care For America Now, the leading coalition of pro-reform groups, unions and providers, HCAN chief Richard Kirsch confirmed in an email that was forwarded to me.

777 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:54:31pm

re: #760 Last Mohican

Our midwestern contingent needs something to do while they finish polishing off their portions of the world's longest BLT sandwich.

ah!

778 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:54:52pm

re: #772 Irenicum

Hey gang, I'll post from NY. Luv y'all! Peace out! Time for bed!!!

Later and have a safe trip.

779 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:54:56pm

re: #756 Gus 802

Yeah, the Alinsky/ID convergence.

Now if you were to ask me 25 years ago if I had an inkling this might happen my answer would have been a resounding "no."

And yet- here we are.

780 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:55:08pm

re: #739 Silvergirl

And then when I'm stumbling around in pj's, you're bright-eyed and hard at work solving world problems on LGF!


Oh yeah, I get a LOT of the World's problems solved! LOL! So far it's realwest 0; World 11,000,000.
I hope to get that to realwest 1; World 10,999,999
by the end of the week!

781 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:55:32pm

re: #745 jaunte

Goodnight all. here's a thought to ponder from Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 about 'social justice':

"We must all be alike. Not everyone born free and equal, as the Constitution says, but everyone made equal. Each man the image of every other; then all are happy, for there are no mountains to make them cower, to judge themselves against."

My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

—Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

782 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:55:51pm

re: #779 Sharmuta

And yet- here we are.

Strange days indeed.

783 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:56:03pm

re: #767 avanti

I did not see a number on the Craigs list ad, just on the links attached.
example:
HELP PASS OBAMA'S PLANS AND EARN $325-550 A WEEK!!! (Berkeley)

Then it says see link below. I could add a dozen like it in a few minutes, not saying they are not real, but who knows. It's easy for anyone to spoof a ad. In any event, paid canvassers are common on both sides.

Avanti, did you read the article I sent you that researched who it's linked to that included to other research links on this topic?

Truthfully and as I said in a previous post, it doesn't matter to me as long as it's all legal, transparent, etc. The irony is from the finger-pointing on the left and the screaming that all the old ladies and men are insurance industry shills.

784 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:56:39pm

re: #765 realwest

Um, who is it that's paying those "Canvassers"?

This guy.

785 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:56:42pm

re: #782 Gus 802

Strange days indeed.

Most peculiar.

786 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:57:17pm

re: #776 Last Mohican

re: #784 Dark_Falcon


GMTA.

787 Desert Dog  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:57:19pm

re: #776 Last Mohican

Who's busing in the supporters again? The right? YA, riiight.

788 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:57:36pm
789 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:57:43pm

re: #758 Irenicum
Um, 6:00Am what time zone?

790 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:57:44pm

re: #760 Last Mohican

Our midwestern contingent needs something to do while they finish polishing off their portions of the world's longest BLT sandwich.

Five hundred pounds of bacon? That's a lot of pig!

It looks more like a series of BLTs all lined up since it isn't one unbroken piece of bread. Impressive nevertheless.

791 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:58:01pm

re: #781 avanti

My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

—Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Ssssh. Avanti, if Rand hears you calling she just might awaken from the dead and do God knows what.

(and I mean that in all good humor)

792 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:58:40pm

re: #770 Racer X

If the brain freeze last for longer than 4 hours, see your doctor.

Ok, THAT got sent to my email list.

793 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:59:23pm

re: #744 Last Mohican

Sorry to hear you're still so fatigued. It's too bad there isn't some simple fix for that.

Well there is, actually - I stop taking the meds and sleep forever! Other than that, nothing I can think of!

794 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:59:31pm

re: #706 Pianobuff

I don't know who got hit in the head with the clue-stick, but this is great news...

Honduras Has Won

You might like this as well:

Zelaya insults Calderon, is sent packing:

[Link: myroatan.blogspot.com...]

795 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:59:35pm

re: #790 Silvergirl

It looks more like a series of BLTs all lined up since it isn't one unbroken piece of bread. Impressive nevertheless.

I had the same thought. Seems like they should have been required to glue the pieces together with mayonnaise or something.

Nevertheless, another great achievement for mankind, and I wouldn't mind a piece in a doggy bag.

796 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 9:59:49pm

re: #782 Gus 802

Strange days indeed.

Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Strange days indeed, strange days indeed

797 Desert Dog  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:00:10pm

re: #781 avanti

Hey Avanti, what part of the country are you located? I just discovered my uncle in the Sacramento area is an avid collector of Studebakers. He currently has 4, but sold two recently. He's a retired Chief Master Sargent from the USAF. You guys sound like twin brothers.

798 Irenicum  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:00:26pm

re: #789 realwest

Eastern. And now I really AM going to bed!

799 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:00:48pm

re: #796 Silvergirl

Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Strange days indeed, strange days indeed

=)

John lennon - Strange Days

800 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:01:57pm

re: #790 Silvergirl

Five hundred pounds of bacon? That's a lot of pig!

It looks more like a series of BLTs all lined up since it isn't one unbroken piece of bread. Impressive nevertheless.

It would be hard to find a 179 ft oven.

801 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:02:07pm

re: #746 Gus 802
Ah geez, Gus, I didn't know you had the flue (he says, wiping off monitor and keyboard with those antiseptic wipes!). Are you getting over it now? Is it that HPNI something I don't remember but the one that WHO calls an epidemic?
Have y'all seen a doctor?

802 Gretchen G.Tiger  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:02:08pm

weet dreams all!

803 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:02:20pm

re: #794 Wendya

You might like this as well:

Zelaya insults Calderon, is sent packing:

[Link: myroatan.blogspot.com...]

Rich. Where to now, Cuba?

804 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:02:54pm

re: #793 realwest

Well there is, actually - I stop taking the meds and sleep forever! Other than that, nothing I can think of!

Okay then, let's stick with plan A! And maybe a shot of Epogen now and then?

805 Macker  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:03:05pm

Why I'll bet you've done an IP trace to see if those ID folks really were logged in at their college accounts while they posted here. I wonder how long it took for Charles to ban them after x posts?

806 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:03:51pm

re: #759 realwest

Good morning avanti! Say listen, on that Cash4Clunkers deal, I understand it's a good deal for a number of people, but do you think it might hurt car sales down the road, so to speak?
I mean if so many folks are turning in their jalopies for new cars now, then they probably won't be buying new cars say in winter or spring or even summer of next year, right? So won't those seasonal sales figures be somewhat askew?

We won't know for a few months, but it's quite possible it will kick start sales due to a number of factors.

There is pent up demand for new cars, and the buyers have been sitting on the sidelines, and the rebate brought some of them out.
The dealers got rid of a lot of inventory before the new models come out and that will give them more money to buy 2010 inventory.
Those that did not qualify for the rebate may jump in for the end of model sales, or are waiting for the shiny, new 2010's. We won't know the total effect on sales until years end, but so far the dealers love it.
I saw a new ad for the new 2010 365 HP Ford SHO that gets 25 MPG, so there are some interesting 2010's coming.

807 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:04:16pm

re: #746 Gus 802

Don't mind me my head is still under the influence of the flu.

Swine flu, eh?

Let's be careful to keep Gus away from that World's Longest BLT.

808 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:04:40pm

re: #801 realwest

Ah geez, Gus, I didn't know you had the flue (he says, wiping off monitor and keyboard with those antiseptic wipes!). Are you getting over it now? Is it that HPNI something I don't remember but the one that WHO calls an epidemic?
Have y'all seen a doctor?

Real! Me, doctor? No. Just over the counter stuff. Had a temperature but didn't take it. Coughing, sneezing, congestion. Have no idea if it was or is the swine flu. I hate getting a flu in the summer. I've always been "old school" about these ailments.

809 Racer X  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:05:05pm

re: #794 Wendya

You might like this as well:

Zelaya insults Calderon, is sent packing:

[Link: myroatan.blogspot.com...]

From the link:

Note: Zelaya travels on a jet provided by Hugo Chavez.

Too funny.

810 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:05:30pm

re: #803 Pianobuff

Rich. Where to now, Cuba?

I figure he's off to Iran to congratulate Ahmadinejad on an overwhelming electoral victory.

811 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:05:45pm

re: #807 Last Mohican

Swine flu, eh?

Let's be careful to keep Gus away from that World's Longest BLT.

Would probably be a good idea. I'm Patient 0. ;)

812 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:06:13pm

re: #764 Irenicum
WHOA! If you have the time and the weather is decent, you really should take a Circle Line Cruise around Manhattan - goes past Ellis Island, the Statue of Liberty, under a bunch of great bridges (including my fav, the Brookly Bride) and points north than comes back down the Hudson! It's an amazing boat ride on a clear skied day!

813 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:07:44pm

re: #794 Wendya

You might like this as well:

Zelaya insults Calderon, is sent packing:

[Link: myroatan.blogspot.com...]

I love it. Its like Charles flinging out a troll. Stupid leftist gets the bum's rush. LOL!

814 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:07:44pm

re: #812 realwest

WHOA! If you have the time and the weather is decent, you really should take a Circle Line Cruise around Manhattan - goes past Ellis Island, the Statue of Liberty, under a bunch of great bridges (including my fav, the Brookly Bride) and points north than comes back down the Hudson! It's an amazing boat ride on a clear skied day!

Carriage ride through Central Park is another great thing to do.

815 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:08:12pm

re: #766 Last Mohican

Well that's a good point. But it seems like the whole point of the stimulus is for the government to spend money on something, anything, right now, and then everything else is supposed to just take care of itself.


Well Hell's bells - they ought to give it to me and I'll really stimulate the economy! No, really I will, c'mon, gimme the money and I'll prove it.
AND FOR EXTRA MEASURE, I'LL BE ABLE TO ACCOUNT FOR EVERY DOLLAR SPENT!

816 legalpad  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:10:04pm

re: #796 Silvergirl

Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Nobody told me there'd be days like these
Strange days indeed, strange days indeed

Everybody's talking

817 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:10:23pm

re: #813 Dark_Falcon

I love it. Its like Charles flinging out a troll. Stupid leftist gets the bum's rush. LOL!

Maybe they should just put him in an innertube with a Marguerita and some porn and let the tide take him out into the Caribbean.

818 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:10:56pm

re: #769 Desert Dog

No visit to NY is complete without a visit to the Metropolitan Museum, right across Central Park from the MoNH...I LOVE NYC...no other place like it on this planet!


SPOT ON COMMENT! And ya gotta eat at a geniuine NY Pizza parlor and a genuine Kosher Deli!
Or maybe a matinee of a Broadway Show!

819 Desert Dog  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:11:24pm

StumbleOn warning:

Ants are very cool little animals, fer sure

They All Can

820 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:11:46pm

How can Obama figure out how to lose the war in Afghanistan? History of course!

AP NewsBreak: US looks to Vietnam for Afghan tips

BRUSSELS — Top U.S. officials have reached out to a leading Vietnam war scholar to discuss the similarities of that conflict 40 years ago with American involvement in Afghanistan, where the U.S. is seeking ways to isolate an elusive guerrilla force and win over a skeptical local population.

The overture to Pulitzer Prize-winning historian Stanley Karnow, who opposes the Afghan war, comes as the U.S. is evaluating its strategy there.

821 Desert Dog  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:11:53pm

re: #818 realwest

SPOT ON COMMENT! And ya gotta eat at a geniuine NY Pizza parlor and a genuine Kosher Deli!
Or maybe a matinee of a Broadway Show!

Sounds good, meet you there in a week?

822 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:11:53pm

re: #771 Wendya
BUT where do THEY get the money to pay people?

823 esch  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:12:34pm

re: #822 realwest

BUT where do THEY get the money to pay people?

sOrOs

824 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:12:40pm

re: #817 Pianobuff

Maybe they should just put him in an innertube with a Marguerita and some porn and let the tide take him out into the Caribbean.

Worse things could happen to a guy.

825 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:12:54pm

re: #818 realwest

SPOT ON COMMENT! And ya gotta eat at a geniuine NY Pizza parlor and a genuine Kosher Deli!
Or maybe a matinee of a Broadway Show!

And a walk around Lincoln Center to catch a performance at the Met.

826 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:13:58pm

re: #820 NJDhockeyfan

How can Obama figure out how to lose the war in Afghanistan? History of course!

AP NewsBreak: US looks to Vietnam for Afghan tips

Could they possibly be any more incompetent?

827 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:14:09pm

re: #822 realwest

BUT where do THEY get the money to pay people?

George Soros has pledged to sink $5 million into the fight

828 Pianobuff  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:15:03pm

re: #824 Last Mohican

Worse things could happen to a guy.

Well, I was kind of meaning to leave him out there. A single tropical drink and a back issue of Juggs will only get you so far.

829 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:15:04pm

re: #815 realwest

Well Hell's bells - they ought to give it to me and I'll really stimulate the economy! No, really I will, c'mon, gimme the money and I'll prove it.
AND FOR EXTRA MEASURE, I'LL BE ABLE TO ACCOUNT FOR EVERY DOLLAR SPENT!

Yes, a suitcase full of IOUs. If you've seen Dumb and Dumber--

Where's all the money?
Lloyd (Jim Carrey): That's as good as money sir, those are IOUs. Go ahead and add it up every cents accounted for. Look, see this that's a car, 275 thou might want to hang on to that one.

[Link: www.reelwavs.com...]

830 Desert Dog  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:15:48pm

Ant night on StumbleOn...

mapping an massive ant colony...amazing

Giant Any Colony is a World Wonder

831 avanti  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:16:35pm

Speaking of cars, tomorrow we'll find out what GM's 230 ad is all about. Rumor is it's the Chevy Volts 230 MPG rating.

Volts ?.

832 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:17:03pm

re: #820 NJDhockeyfan

How can Obama figure out how to lose the war in Afghanistan? History of course!

AP NewsBreak: US looks to Vietnam for Afghan tips

What?

Are they serious?

833 FamHistoryGuy  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:17:51pm

re: #640 Racer X

The dems have been screwing up the economy since 2006 at least. With a little help from the repubicans. obmama was pushing for a fast pass on the health care without a sober discussion or input from the public. What is wrong with the public being angry with being lied to by politicians? Sometimes it takes a two by four to get a mules attention.

834 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:17:58pm

re: #804 Last Mohican
Uh, what is Epogen ?

835 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:17:59pm

re: #828 Pianobuff

Well, I was kind of meaning to leave him out there. A single tropical drink and a back issue of Juggs will only get you so far.

True. But if you gave me a cooler full of margaritas and the whole library of back issues on DVD, I might be tempted. Provided you threw in some sunscreen and a decent hat, of course. Nothing ruins a good floating off to sea in an innertube with margaritas and porn like a blistering sunburn.

836 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:18:04pm

re: #827 NJDhockeyfan

George Soros has pledged to sink $5 million into the fight

What do we get a sugar daddy like that?

837 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:19:40pm

re: #832 Gus 802

What?

Are they serious?

God help the troops.

838 Desert Dog  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:19:50pm

Good night all,

One more cool link for you to see...

DMV denies vegan's tofu license plate request

Thank you, thank you very much...

839 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:20:50pm

re: #814 Gus 802
Not in summer if y'all have the flu!! All those trees ablooming and shrubs and flowers - geez, get over that Flu Gus, we need you're clear headed thinking out here!

840 [deleted]  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:21:51pm
841 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:22:16pm

re: #834 realwest

Uh, what is Epogen ?

A drug. It's synthetic erythropoietin, a hormone that causes your body to manufacture more red blood cells. It's sometimes given to people who are anemic because of kidney failure or chemotherapy, in order to make them less anemic, and therefore more energetic.

Of course, I don't know your situation and maybe this isn't your issue at all. I would think your docs would have mentioned it if it was potentially helpful for you.

842 Macker  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:22:49pm

re: #838 Desert Dog

Good night all,

One more cool link for you to see...

DMV denies vegan's tofu license plate request

Thank you, thank you very much...

I'll bet Caprica's DMV had the same problem: "I Love To Frak You!"

843 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:23:19pm

re: #830 Desert Dog

Ant night on StumbleOn...

mapping an massive ant colony...amazing

Giant Any Colony is a World Wonder

Buggers! (For Orson Scott Card fans)

That is one colossal construction site.

844 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:23:28pm

re: #821 Desert Dog
Love too, but I'm too, ah, poor and too weak. But go and have A GREAT TIME!

845 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:23:28pm

re: #840 Macker

Remember that famous 1968 Tet Photo?
Place George Soros there instead.
That's how much he's fucked up the world!

Be careful with talk like that, it can be taken as advocating violence.

846 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:24:59pm

I'm going to bed.

Here is one more news item to chew on...

NBC Launches Liberal Site For 'The' African-American Perspective On News

"There is not a Black America and a White America and a Latino America and an Asian America -- there's the United States of America." -- Barack Obama, 2004 Democratic National Convention keynote address.

"theGrio.com. The African-American perspective on news. Our lives, our world, our stories. theGrio.com. Part of NBC News." -- promo for new NBC News website, August 9, 2009.

So much for Barack Obama's promise of a post-racial America. NBC News apparently believes that African-Americans can be pigeonholed. In NBC's view, there exists "the" African-American perspective on news. So announced the NBC News promo, aired during today's Meet The Press, for a new website, theGrio.com.

View video here.

And what is "the" African-American perspective? The official NBC launch press release for theGrio highlights three contributors:

Melissa Harris-Lacewell: The Princeton prof is a regular guest on The Rachel Maddow show, a regular contributor on NPR and a columnist for The Nation

Santita Jackson: a radio talk show host who is also the producer of Jesse Jackson's radio show. She is the former Director of the P.U.S.H. Television Studio.

Al Sharpton: say no more. Please.

Welcome to post-racial America 2009, NBC-style! E-grio-gious!

847 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:25:06pm

re: #837 NJDhockeyfan

God help the troops.

Seriously. And all for naught? What about a policy of (at least) containment? Karzai has been a hindrance.

Word was that August would be the decision month. Might be the case.

848 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:25:22pm

re: #822 realwest

BUT where do THEY get the money to pay people?

They hire college students over the summer to work 60+ hours a week at minimum wage to hustle donations. They tell the kids they're making a difference.

849 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:27:07pm

re: #827 NJDhockeyfan

George Soros has pledged to sink $5 million into the fight

Hey NJhockeyfan - did you read the comments? They were all THANKING SOROS!!
Mush-heads.

850 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:27:20pm

re: #831 avanti

Speaking of cars, tomorrow we'll find out what GM's 230 ad is all about. Rumor is it's the Chevy Volts 230 MPG rating.


Which is highly misleading.

851 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:27:31pm

re: #846 NJDhockeyfan

I'm going to bed.

Here is one more news item to chew on...

NBC Launches Liberal Site For 'The' African-American Perspective On News

NBC: Blatant racialism in the head, tingles in the leg, zero in the ratings.

852 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:28:01pm

re: #848 Wendya

They hire college students over the summer to work 60+ hours a week at minimum wage to hustle donations. They tell the kids they're making a difference.

I think they can stop telling them they're making a difference. What they're doing is meeting other kids and hooking up with them. Is any other motivation necessary?

853 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:28:15pm

re: #849 realwest

Hey NJhockeyfan - did you read the comments? They were all THANKING SOROS!!
Mush-heads.

Quite Concur. If Soros get his way this country will be ruined.

854 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:28:45pm

re: #846 NJDhockeyfan

I'm going to bed.

Here is one more news item to chew on...

NBC Launches Liberal Site For 'The' African-American Perspective On News

If you think about it... that's really insulting.

855 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:29:29pm

Hamid Karzai

Hamid Karzai signs law 'legalising rape in marriage'

President Hamid Karzai has signed a law the UN says legalises rape in marriage and prevents women from leaving the house without permission.

He has since bowed to "international pressure" and reversed this law.

856 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:30:08pm

re: #841 Last Mohican
Ah, thanks Last Mohican! Yeah, I imagine my doctors do - the Charlotte Presbyterian Hospital Cancer Care Center and my personal Oncologist are all over my situation, but thanks for mentioning that - I'll make sure to mention it to them!

857 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:34:34pm

I didn't know Slick was going to be in town:

Bill Clinton Celebrates His 63rd in Las Vegas

LAS VEGAS – No one can say former President Bill Clinton doesn’t know how to throw a birthday party for former President Bill Clinton.

Mr. Clinton is in Las Vegas on Monday as one of the marquee speakers at the National Clean Energy Summit, put together by Harry Reid of Nevada, the Senate majority leader. The event has drawn a pretty impressive turn-out, from former Vice President Al Gore to the wealthy oilman T. Boone Pickens.

The Caucus

858 Last Mohican  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:35:48pm

re: #855 Gus 802

Hamid Karzai

Hamid Karzai signs law 'legalising rape in marriage'

President Hamid Karzai has signed a law the UN says legalises rape in marriage and prevents women from leaving the house without permission.

Oh wonderful. Sharia is back in Afghanistan.

I suppose that means that this will be totally out of the question (warning: NSFWish).

859 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:36:40pm

re: #857 sngnsgt

I didn't know Slick was going to be in town:

Bill Clinton Celebrates His 63rd in Las Vegas

The Caucus

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Bill Clinton can be expected to take advantage of that more than most.

860 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:37:29pm

re: #855 Gus 802
Waitjustonefuckingminute here! US Soldiers, Airmen and Marines are risking their lives EVERY DAMN DAY to that sumbitch Karzai can do something like that? I thought we were fighting AGAINST THE TALIBAN, not in support of their policies!

Man, wait 'til President Bush hears about thi...oh, Shit.
nevermind.

861 Wendya  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:37:32pm

So, was Michelle Obama talking about The Fund when she urged young people to eschew high paying jobs and work for the community?

862 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:37:51pm

re: #858 Last Mohican

Oh wonderful. Sharia is back in Afghanistan.

I suppose that means that this will be totally out of the question (warning: NSFWish).

Good underwear! BTW, that law has never come into effect. Enough hell was raised that it was repealed under pressure.

863 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:38:17pm

re: #861 Wendya

So, was Michelle Obama talking about The Fund when she urged young people to eschew high paying jobs and work for the community?

Yep.

864 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:39:55pm

re: #858 Last Mohican

Oh wonderful. Sharia is back in Afghanistan.

I suppose that means that this will be totally out of the question (warning: NSFWish).

Looks like it. Here's a report from July 24th. Yeah, it's from The Guardian.

Afghanistan women outraged at proposed family planning law

Eight years after the Taliban were toppled, Janine di Giovanni returns to Afghanistan and sees how a proposed law is instilling fear in its women

I arrived to meet women before the presidential elections next month and to talk about a new law, which if brought in, could have drastic repercussions for women. The Shia Family Planning law was signed last March by President Hamid Karzai in an attempt, many believe, to appease powerful mullahs. The Afghan constitution allows Shias to have a separate family law from the Sunni majority based on traditional Shia jurisprudence, and some think the law is linked to the August elections and the Shia electorate who would have to abide by it (they could form up to 20% of the electorate).

The proposed law led to furious protests from women's groups. It sanctioned marital rape and brought back Taliban-era restrictions on women by outlining when a woman could leave her house and the circumstances in which she has to have sex with her husband; Shia woman would be allowed to leave home alone "for a legitimate purpose" only which the law does not define, and could refuse sex with their husbands only when ill or menstruating.

Following international outrage, Karzai backtracked and said the law would be reviewed. This month it was amended and re-signed by the president, but has not yet been ratified by parliament. Human rights groups say it is unclear how much the amendments have done to improve the law. And the law has already achieved its aim – instilling fear and insecurity among an already traumatised female population.

865 sngnsgt  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:43:39pm

re: #859 Dark_Falcon

What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Bill Clinton can be expected to take advantage of that more than most.

Teaser's and Cheetah's do have lunch hour "special's".. ;-)

866 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:48:10pm

Time for me to go to bed. Goodnight all.

867 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:48:36pm

re: #862 Dark_Falcon

Good underwear! BTW, that law has never come into effect. Enough hell was raised that it was repealed under pressure.


Well good underwear to one side (or the other!) the mere fact that the President of Afghanistan signed that into law in the first place - bowing only to "international pressure" :

The British Government expressed alarm at the law, which applies to the 15 per cent of the Afghan population that is Shia Muslim. President Obama called the law “abhorrent” at the Nato summit in Strasbourg last week.


Human rights activists cited a large number of provisions in the law that appeared to disregard those commitments in a draft leaked to The Times.

One of the most controversial articles stipulates that the wife “is bound to preen for her husband as and when he desires”.

Later the law explicitly sanctions marital rape. “As long as the husband is not travelling, he has the right to have sexual intercourse with his wife every fourth night,” Article 132 says. “Unless the wife is ill or has any kind of illness that intercourse could aggravate, the wife is bound to give a positive response to the sexual desires of her husband.”

Article 133 reintroduces the Taleban restrictions on women’s movements outside their homes, stating: “A wife cannot leave the house without the permission of the husband” unless in a medical or other emergency.


Have we lost our collective focus here folks? Taleban government and treatment of women are what OUR TROOPS are fighting and dying against; I don't give a fuck if Karzai was using it as an election ploy, he's gotta go.
And we need another 80,000 troops there NOW to put the Taliban/al-Q away for good.

868 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:48:38pm

The difference between Karzai and the Taliban is measured in degrees. Karzai is a prick. :)

869 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:49:04pm

re: #866 Dark_Falcon

Time for me to go to bed. Goodnight all.

Night DF.

870 realwest  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:50:28pm

Yeah, I gotta get some sleep now too. Good night/early morning y'all - I hope I get the chance to see you all down the road.


Good Night, all.

871 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:51:49pm

Sailin' on! Good-night Lizardland.

I just erroneously posted my good-night in the spinoff links, which shows I'm overdue for dreamland.

872 Silvergirl  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:52:31pm

We're dropping off fast I see.

Good-night again!

873 Gus  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:53:51pm

Ditto on that. Good night all.

874 Macker  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 10:54:52pm

Wouldn't you like to be a Cylon too?

Um...not particularly...

875 Sharmuta  Mon, Aug 10, 2009 11:18:42pm

re: #874 Macker

You killed the thread, Dude.

876 snoopy  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 5:05:58am

If the students in the class are future Televangelists, they will take the 50 million and have a huge spending spree on hookers, jets, vacations and mansions. What a ridiculous class

877 ellem  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 5:14:53am

Few people I know have the Do What Thou Wilt attitude towards organized religion I do... Look. Someone in THAT institution isn't likely to be offended by those requirements. Why should you be?

878 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 5:41:35am
879 gadlaw  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 5:42:28am

This is another example of why it's a good idea to ask where someone went to school, if you're a graduate of Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas - by default you are a dolt - someone to be watched carefully for irrational and magical thinking. And judging by the homework and requirements we're not talking heavy thinkers either, more like stupid soldiers for Christ which is pretty much what you getting with Creationists. Creationists reject the science that threatens them while probably checking their iPhones or Blackberries so at least they deserve no respect unlike Amish who live what they believe. These are dangerous folks and must be battled at every turn unless we want to head down to the dark ages again.

880 quickjustice  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 5:56:01am

As a professing Christian, I have no problem saying that this is like reading the curriculum from Hogwarts. "Flying on Broomsticks 101", "Mastering Your Magic Wand 101" and "Burning Heretics at the Stake 101"are the intellectual equivalents of what I'm reading here.

There's literally no connection between what these people are doing and Christianity, except that they believe that the Bible is literally true in every detail to the exclusion of science and the empirical reality of the natural world.

881 BlackFedora  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 6:00:41am

It really pains me to see that the loudest voices for the faith I genuinely believe in feel the need to behave like the Taliban minus the Kalashnikovs.

I went to a high school where young earth creationism was aggressively pushed. I'm thankful I had the good sense to open my eyes to science and get past all the propaganda and see that I didn't need to fear Darwin and that few things are more pro-life than science.

I hate this stuff but hopefully some of these students can open their eyes and see that this garbage has almost nothing to do with what was preached by their favorite Gallilean.

882 jdog29  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 6:18:11am

What other explaination could there be for some of my comments.///

883 Yashmak  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 7:17:40am

re: #855 Gus 802


President Hamid Karzai has signed a law the UN says legalises rape in marriage and prevents women from leaving the house without permission.

Perhaps the law was "too big to read" in its entirety. . .lol

884 Land Shark  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 7:41:54am

I really don't have a problem with a religious institution, in this case a Southern Baptist Seminary, doing this. After all, this is what I would expect out an institution that goes by this name. My problem is with trying to get creationism taught in public school and other secular institutions of learning where it doesn't belong.

It does tell other educational institutions to cast a wary eye on any credits given at that Southern Baptist Seminary, though.

885 [deleted]  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 7:45:25am
886 American Sabra  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 8:09:20am

re: #640 Racer X

Reality:

Americans are pissed. The economy is in a shambles. The president got everyone all up in arms over the healthcare 'catastrophe'. So now people are really upset, and are wanting to voice their opinions. Well jeez ya dumbshit, perhaps you shouldn't have made everyone think it was such a catastrophe in the first place?

LOL Reality? Oh NOW you admit the economy is in a shambles! I about bust a gut reading that.

Go back at LGF about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago. NO ONE on the Right would even accept that the economy was failing. People were going broke because of their healthcare, job loss and foreclosures, but no, it was all a creation of the MSM! It's a hippie loving, media-driven Democrat commie ploy! And according to you, IT STILL IS!

When oh when will the Right accept the reality that most of us have been living under for the better part of 2 years and stop blaming the MSM and the Commie Loving Pinko Democrats? And btw, TFK and all you that scream about the evils of socialism, I'm assuming you don't pay taxes, or send your children to public school, national parks or the library, or drive on public highways or go to public schools or collect welfare or food stamps, or live in government housing or have need for the cops or the fire department. Oh? You don't live in a shack in the woods? Didn't think so.

You're the most ass-backwards group of people I've ever encountered aside from the Islamists. Truly. You stick your head in the sand and ignore what is directly in front of you while the other half of you wants to drop science and run the country on Christianity. The good news is that you're a shrinking minority, as evidenced on November 4, 2008.

887 John Neverbend  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 8:11:58am

re: #41 Charles

Charles! Charles Charles Charles! Now you're linking to Richard Dawkins?!?! Why do you hate Christians! This whole subject is boring and nobody cares! You're just like Andrew Sullivan! I hate you, daddy!

I'd as lief link to Dick Dawkins as anyone else. (With apologies to Samuel Johnson).

888 Gang of One  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 8:23:15am

re: #11 MandyManners

This is not intellectual rigor mortis.

FTFY
/jumped right in, not sure if anyone else said as much

889 Cato the Elder  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 8:36:22am

re: #647 mich-again

Those were all anti-government types, neo-nazis, tax rebellion loons...

You label them right-wingers. But KT's article simply referred to the ones making death threats as Republican extremists.

I'll bet you a donut whoever made the death threats, (if anyone did at all) would abhor the label Republican. Just as much as they would deny being a Democrat.

Took you more than two minutes to come up with that, Scottie? Want to borrow a crutch?

890 lostlakehiker  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 8:57:10am

re: #886 American Sabra

LOL Reality? Oh NOW you admit the economy is in a shambles! I about bust a gut reading that.

Go back at LGF about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago. NO ONE on the Right would even accept that the economy was failing. People were going broke because of their healthcare, job loss and foreclosures, but no, it was all a creation of the MSM! It's a hippie loving, media-driven Democrat commie ploy! And according to you, IT STILL IS!

When oh when will the Right accept the reality that most of us have been living under for the better part of 2 years and stop blaming the MSM and the Commie Loving Pinko Democrats? And btw, TFK and all you that scream about the evils of socialism, I'm assuming you don't pay taxes, or send your children to public school, national parks or the library, or drive on public highways or go to public schools or collect welfare or food stamps, or live in government housing or have need for the cops or the fire department. Oh? You don't live in a shack in the woods? Didn't think so.

You're the most ass-backwards group of people I've ever encountered aside from the Islamists. Truly. You stick your head in the sand and ignore what is directly in front of you while the other half of you wants to drop science and run the country on Christianity. The good news is that you're a shrinking minority, as evidenced on November 4, 2008.

First, foreclosures are a symptom of a bad economy or of bad judgment on the part of lenders and borrowers. They aren't a cause of a bad economy, and foreclosure is a necessary part of any system of home ownership that involves borrowing. If a borrower can move into a home and then stop making payments, nobody will make payments, so next thing, nobody will lend.

Lenders and borrowers made the mistake of imagining that home prices would always rise, and rise faster than inflation. If it had been somebody's scheme, it would have been Mr. Ponzi, but instead it was a collective delusion. Delusion or scheme, it was bound to come unglued. Lenders mostly fell into this folly on their own, but the community reinvestment act broke the ice by making it legal, and in some cases mandatory, to write loans that no sober loan officer would have signed off on before the act. Loans that, of course, were bound to go bad unless the buyer got lucky and was able to flip the property at a profit.

Second, there's a difference between having a government that does roads, public schools, national defense, and charity for those who cannot fend for themselves, and a government that takes into its own hands major parts of ordinary life. It's not the job of the government to provide everyone with food, clothing, shelter, and medical care. The bulk of what gets done in the world gets done because people who are able to work have a reason to work, and they do what they need to do to get what they want and need. When that linkage is broken, able bodied men and women bag it and everything unravels.

The government has to step in and enslave the people to get them to do even a basic minimum of work. Presto, Soviet Union. And that didn't work out.

891 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 9:21:25am

re: #886 American Sabra

That makes sense!

Two years ago. No, THREE years ago, when I was working as a senior loan officer when the bank I was working for hired there a 2nd guy to be a big shot, having hired one before. He was all into FANNY MAY/FREDDIE MAC giving loans to dead beats. I SAW the writing on the wall. I changed jobs/career's to get out of bank and the entire banking industry. I warned people the ship was sinking. To get out now. Some people listened, and THEY are doing well now. The ones who did not are wishing they did. I even stopped by last week. Over 10 people told me they wish they had listened. It made me smile and laugh. They admitted the ship hit the iceberg and they wished they had gone when they had the chance. Except the head schmucks. Who now have to deal with a ton of bankruptcies and delinquent loans. Mortgages, credit cards, car loans, home equities, student loans.
And don't listen to me now. Another corpse I have to walk over. I just have to wear boots.

892 American Sabra  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 9:24:52am

re: #890 lostlakehiker

First, foreclosures are a symptom of a bad economy or of bad judgment on the part of lenders and borrowers. They aren't a cause of a bad economy, and foreclosure is a necessary part of any system of home ownership that involves borrowing. If a borrower can move into a home and then stop making payments, nobody will make payments, so next thing, nobody will lend.

Lenders and borrowers made the mistake of imagining that home prices would always rise, and rise faster than inflation. If it had been somebody's scheme, it would have been Mr. Ponzi, but instead it was a collective delusion. Delusion or scheme, it was bound to come unglued. Lenders mostly fell into this folly on their own, but the community reinvestment act broke the ice by making it legal, and in some cases mandatory, to write loans that no sober loan officer would have signed off on before the act. Loans that, of course, were bound to go bad unless the buyer got lucky and was able to flip the property at a profit.

It was not bad judgment. It was bad business practices, mostly by banks and greedy borrowers who thought they were getting something for nothing. But I'm not arguing that. The problem is that it's a reality that everyone saw years ago, except for the Right or people here. That's what burns me.

Second, there's a difference between having a government that does roads, public schools, national defense, and charity for those who cannot fend for themselves, and a government that takes into its own hands major parts of ordinary life. It's not the job of the government to provide everyone with food, clothing, shelter, and medical care. The bulk of what gets done in the world gets done because people who are able to work have a reason to work, and they do what they need to do to get what they want and need. When that linkage is broken, able bodied men and women bag it and everything unravels.

The government has to step in and enslave the people to get them to do even a basic minimum of work. Presto, Soviet Union. And that didn't work out.

Everytime a Democrat gets elected (i.e. Clinton) we hear the same Communist rhetoric from the Right. We live in a socialist democracy. Well socialist republic, democratically elected to be exact. We are not communists. The Democrat party is not a communist party. I'm glad that you can differentiate between the two, but apparently plenty of people can't. They would rather use outrageous rhetoric to demonize the Left. That's why fists are flying at Town Hall meetings. I have no patience for it.

893 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 9:33:11am

re: #890 lostlakehiker

You at least have a brain. The left THINK they are all smart. The far left countries all over the world are realizing how lame there goverments were and are now trying to fix them. Who helped them to get it doing better? "Tear this wall down"
Gee. I dunknow.
When El Presidente is getting lectured by CHINA?!?!?
Mister HopeandChange is OK with Iran getting nukes.
I hope Sabra moved from the mid-east. Unless he/she likes glowing in the dark.

894 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 9:36:07am

Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics.

Now known as Russia.

895 American Sabra  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 9:38:42am

re: #891 hous bin pharteen

I try hard to be patient, but sometimes it just flies out of me.

You sound like a wise person. My family makes fun of me because I'm "frugal" (cheap bitch really). I learned my lesson years ago about spending what you can't afford. I guess because my father lost his business when I was 16 and we lost everything. It never left me. Meanwhile, if God forbid my hubby and I would find ourselves in crisis today, I think we could manage it.

896 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 9:59:22am

re: #895 American Sabra

People do end up spending more than they should. Do not let it get you down. I have no problem when people end up with some problems. The interest rates do not help. I think the common rate with credit cards were 18% at the time. With monthly payments you would not even pay enough on the principal. The debt kept rising even if you did not charge something again. Pure greed by banks and credit cards.
The "dead beat" I was talking about were people who did not care paying for things. With people who had trouble, I had no problem with helping them out of the jam. Bill consolidation, those things.

897 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 10:09:03am

I like the icon. Pretty cute!

Sorry if I seem nasty.
I promise to play nice! ;-)

ps. My spelling is pretty bad sometimes. I am still getting better from a car accident. My eyesight gets bad sometimes. And remembering the proper spelling. Thank god for the "check spelling" button!

898 American Sabra  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 10:22:27am

re: #896 hous bin pharteen

People do end up spending more than they should. Do not let it get you down. I have no problem when people end up with some problems. The interest rates do not help. I think the common rate with credit cards were 18% at the time. With monthly payments you would not even pay enough on the principal. The debt kept rising even if you did not charge something again. Pure greed by banks and credit cards.
The "dead beat" I was talking about were people who did not care paying for things. With people who had trouble, I had no problem with helping them out of the jam. Bill consolidation, those things.


You know that Obama fixed that credit card thing. My last credit card that I tore up, I had paid 3 years every month on time. The day I was late on a payment, the rate went from 12% to 25%. That's legal usury and no one did anything about it for years.

Glad that you're not insulting me anymore :)

899 hous bin pharteen  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 10:42:26am

re: #898 American Sabra

I think our rate was 13.9%. It wasn't that bad. The place I worked for was not greedy. I don't use credit cars now. I just use them to order things on-line or catalogs. Like sports tickets or concert tickets.

You seem too nice, and smart!, for me to insult. Damn it!! :-)

900 Throbert McGee  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 10:44:02am
Trace the connections between Darwinian evolution, eugenics, abortion, infanticide, and euthanasia. Why are materialists so ready to embrace these as a package deal?

This "package deal" criticism, despite being a serious over-generalization, is possibly the only vaguely worthwhile point Dembski makes.

While there are some noteworthy "materialists" and "secular humanists" like Nat Hentoff who strongly oppose abortion and euthanasia (for example) on non-religious grounds, the unfortunate reality is that far too many atheists/agnostics/humanists do tend towards package-deal and bien pensant thinking -- uncritically embracing left-wing excesses simply because of a shared distaste for traditional religious restraints, or because it's what's currently favored by the NY Times and BBC.

And as I've attempted to argue in my posts about "frot vs. today's gay subculture," the left-wing Cult of Non-Judgmentalism can be deadly -- whether to homosexual men or to unborn babies or to the elderly and sick.

901 JEA62  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 12:22:21pm

Consdiering watching movies and TV shows qualify as college majors, does this really surprise anyone?

902 Mich-again  Tue, Aug 11, 2009 7:32:33pm

re: #889 Cato the Elder

Fail. This example here is the no true Scotsman argument in reverse.

The journalist KT cited had this argument. They behaved like idiots, so they must be Republicans. I said "How do you know which if any party they belong to?" Its more like, "That guy must be a Scotsman" logic.


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