Anti-Abortion Activists: Tiller’s Church ‘Brought Damnation On Themselves’

US News • Views: 1,916

They encouraged and applauded his murder, but anti-choice fanatics aren’t finished with Dr. George Tiller yet.

Now the leader of the domestic terrorist group calling itself the “Army of God” has sent a letter to the church Tiller attended, telling pastors that they “brought damnation on themselves.”

A Virginia anti-abortion activist has sent a scathing letter to the church of slain Wichita abortion provider George Tiller, telling pastors they “brought damnation” onto themselves for failing to rebuke the “babykilling.”

The Rev. Donald Spitz, a longtime advocate of the belief that killing abortion doctors is an act of justifiable homicide, said he also mailed a letter to College Hill United Methodist Church, which offered its larger sanctuary to Tiller’s family for his funeral.

Tiller was shot to death in his church on May 31 while serving as an usher. Scott Roeder of Kansas City awaits a Jan. 11 trial on a charge of first-degree murder.

Spitz, who is the head of Pro-Life Virginia, runs a Web site called the Army of God. He has praised Roeder’s actions and calls him a “true American hero.”

“If Reformation Lutheran Church had done its job and brought George Tiller to repentance, he would be alive and the babies he killed would be alive,” Spitz said in a phone interview. “But George Tiller received his just reward, and Reformation Lutheran Church is to blame for his blood, and the blood of the children he murdered is on their hands.”

The word for this kind of tactic is “terrorism” — they’re letting the pastors of Tiller’s church know that if they don’t toe the line, they might be next.

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691 comments
1 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:24:50pm

If so, that damnation comes from God, not from people...

2 livefreeor die  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:25:39pm

This is not going to end well.

3 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:26:40pm

What a clear, unambiguous demonstration this provides of the shrill, violent RELIGIONISTS depicted in the previous thread's video...

4 anubis_soundwave  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:27:55pm

These kind of Christians are the ones I was referring to in the last thread.

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:28:14pm

What horrible people. Aren't there any good deeds that need doing? Positive messages that need spreading? Comforting the weary? Uplifting the sad? Feeding the hungry?

6 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:29:37pm

Even if he isn't supporting terrorism in the eyes of the law, in my mind Donald Spitz is no better than an Islamist Mullah preaching the Jihad. Both extol murder in the name of God, both pervert their faith. I'm glad Salamantis is here to help deal with this bilge as it deserves.

7 livefreeor die  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:29:48pm

re: #5 Emmmieg

What horrible people. Aren't there any good deeds that need doing? Positive messages that need spreading? Comforting the weary? Uplifting the sad? Feeding the hungry?

That doesn't get them the press they want.

8 Abu Bin Squid  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:30:00pm

Scott Roeder is a loon, not a typical Christian. (Lutheran, whatever)

9 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:30:46pm

re: #5 Emmmieg

What horrible people. Aren't there any good deeds that need doing? Positive messages that need spreading? Comforting the weary? Uplifting the sad? Feeding the hungry?

Like I've said before, these people are too busy making asses out of themselves to actually live by Jesus Christ's examples.

10 livefreeor die  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:31:14pm

"Jesus wept."

11 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:32:53pm

Pick that stone up, Mr. Spitz! Go ahead and throw it. You seem to think you have the right.

12 Irish Rose  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:34:38pm

re: #5 Emmmieg

What horrible people. Aren't there any good deeds that need doing? Positive messages that need spreading? Comforting the weary? Uplifting the sad? Feeding the hungry?

They could care less about the weary, sad and hungry.

13 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:34:44pm

Start by taking away his tax-free status if he wants to promote crime from the pulpit. Why the heck should the US taxpayers subsidize that crap.

14 brookly red  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:35:12pm

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

Like I've said before, these people are too busy making asses out of themselves to actually live by Jesus Christ's examples.

the judging others thing has always been kinda a litmus test for me.

15 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:36:16pm

re: #11 Emmmieg

Pick that stone up, Mr. Spitz! Go ahead and throw it. You seem to think you have the right.

Since he's throwing stones, should we create a new Troll Hammer to deal with him. Nekama forged such a hammer to battle pro Islamist Terror troll. Perhaps a new one is needed to battle Christian Fundamentalist Terror.

16 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:36:34pm

So much for judge not lest ye be judged. Such hypocrisy.

17 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:37:14pm

re: #13 Mich-again

Start by taking away his tax-free status if he wants to promote crime from the pulpit. Why the heck should the US taxpayers subsidize that crap.

Quite Concur. And see if you can get him for incitement to murder or harassment.

18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:37:46pm

Poor misguided loons.

19 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:40:05pm

re: #18 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not so much misguided as malevolent.

20 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:40:06pm

Do not go to the Army of God website. Some things can't be unseen. I wish I hadn't googled it.

21 livefreeor die  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:40:33pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Do not go to the Army of God website. Some things can't be unseen. I wish I hadn't googled it.

Fetus pictures?

22 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:41:01pm

The Army of God uses "leaderless resistance" as its organizing principle,[5][6] but several individuals have publicly associated themselves with the group:

* Rev. Michael Bray, considered the "chaplain of the Army of God".[citation needed]
* Neal Horsley head of the Georgia-based Creator's Rights Party.
* Shelley Shannon, non-fatally shot Dr. George Tiller
* Rev. Donald Spitz, head of Pro-Life Virginia and keeper of the AOG web site.
* Clayton Waagner

Others loosely affiliated with, or in some support of, the "AOG" include:

* Jack Cashill, columnist/reporter for WorldNetDaily
* Wiley Drake, California Southern Baptist pastor and former 2008 Vice-Presidential candidate of the American Independent Party
* Drew Heiss, Streetpreach.com
* Dan Holman, Missionaries to the Preborn - Iowa [7]
* Stephen Jordi, convicted of plotting clinic attacks.
* Dave Leach, publisher of Prayer & Action News magazine
* Bob Lokey[8]
* Scott Roeder, American anti-abortionist charged with the murder of George Tiller [9]
* Eric Robert Rudolph, American anti-abortionist and convicted bomber.
* Chuck Spingola of Unashamed & Associates, Newark, Ohio
* Matthew Trewhella, Missionaries to the Preborn - Wisconsin
* Father David Trosch
* Stephen Wetzel (Missionaries to the Unborn)[8]
* Bill Whatcott, Canadian anti-abortion crusader
* Troy Newman, President Operation Rescue West. [10]

Bombings, shootings, murders. If they had Arabic surnames what would we call them?

23 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:41:29pm

re: #21 livefreeor die

Yeah, lots of them.

24 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:41:52pm

re: #17 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur. And see if you can get him for incitement to murder or harassment.

I'd say the same for a Mosque where the Imam promoted terror. But I doubt any of them would be so stupid to officially spread that message like this twit is doing. The logic this preacher uses is the same argument Abu Hamza used in his terror trial, that his religion required him to call for the killing of Jews, so it wasn't incitement, just an expression of religious freedom. That was in the UK, but the line of defense was laughed out of court as it would be here.

25 livefreeor die  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:42:18pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Yeah, lots of them.

Thanks for the warning.

26 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:42:26pm

re: #22 BigPapa

Bombings, shootings, murders. If they had Arabic surnames what would we call them?

Jundullah (Soldiers of God)

27 Wookieelips  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:42:53pm

Well, this is...craptastic.

Hi lizards, long time no see. If you even remember me. :-P

28 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:42:54pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Do not go to the Army of God website. Some things can't be unseen. I wish I hadn't googled it.

I wonder how many of those photos are of fetuses that were non-viable or removed due to medical reasons.

Nope, you're just supposed to look at that and go "Oh my! Dead babies! Evil!"

29 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:43:21pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

Jundullah (Soldiers of God)

That works. I'm favoriting that post.

30 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:43:42pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Do not go to the Army of God website. Some things can't be unseen. I wish I hadn't googled it.

Unfortunately I went there once after Tiller's murder.

31 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:44:10pm

re: #27 Wookieelips

Well, this is...craptastic.

Hi lizards, long time no see. If you even remember me. :-P

Good to see you. What do you make of the current Bad Craziness?

32 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:44:16pm

re: #13 Mich-again

Start by taking away his tax-free status if he wants to promote crime from the pulpit. Why the heck should the US taxpayers subsidize that crap.

If he's a pastor, his congregation can revoke his call. It's not like Baptists have bishops or anything assigning a pastor to a congregation.

33 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:44:51pm

Now that there's another post at the top of the home page, the real nuts are beginning to show up in the previous thread.

Just like clockwork.

34 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:45:12pm

re: #32 Dianna

If he's a pastor, his congregation can revoke his call. It's not like Baptists have bishops or anything assigning a pastor to a congregation.

Something tells me they agree with him or he'd already be gone.

35 livefreeor die  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:45:26pm

Time to put the baby to bed.
Farewell, Lizards. It's been fun.

36 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:46:06pm

Abortion is an ugly business, but nobody...NOBODY has the right to murder the doctor providing the service. I wish abortion didn't exist, or for that matter, the NEED for it. Killing the doctor will not solve the problem, and only increases the body count. I consider myself reasonably conservative, but libertarian enough to know that this isn't an issue that conservatives should have stayed away from since the beginning.

37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:46:12pm

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Not so much misguided as malevolent.

They think they are doing God's work. That's why I think they are misguided and crazy.

38 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:46:27pm

re: #24 Mich-again

I'd say the same for a Mosque where the Imam promoted terror. But I doubt any of them would be so stupid to officially spread that message like this twit is doing.

Ah, but they certainly do in countries where Islam is the dominant religion.

Just as the Taliban can "blend" into the general populace of Afghanistan, so can these Christian extremists do the same in America.

These people are our very own home-grown terrorists and every single one of them should be under survellience and talking on tapped phones.

39 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:46:47pm

(in only briefly)

IMHO, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference, in attitude, between Spitz and the Islamist Fascists. Spitz appears to be willing to kill in the name of God. If he himself isn't willing to do the act, he certainly seems to be eager to farm it out.

It also appears that Spitz thinks he knows God's mind. The question is, does he believe he knows it better than God does?

/no sarc whatsoever

40 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:46:51pm

re: #35 livefreeor die

Farewell, Lizards. It's been fun.

FLOUNCE!

41 brookly red  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:47:14pm

re: #32 Dianna

If he's a pastor, his congregation can revoke his call. It's not like Baptists have bishops or anything assigning a pastor to a congregation.

Hmmm, I am thinking that the congregation supports him...

42 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:47:17pm

re: #34 Mich-again

Something tells me they agree with him or he'd already be gone.

Probably. People tend to leave, rather than organize to get rid of the minister.

43 Irish Rose  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:47:24pm

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness".

Matthew 23:27-28

44 Wookieelips  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:47:40pm

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

Good to see you. What do you make of the current Bad Craziness?

What's to make of it besides wishing it would go away?
I've been feeling so much better since moving to south Georgia & I've been avoiding politics in general. Strange for me, but I felt staying away from the news helped me relax, especially with my husband in Iraq.
I missed LGF, though.

45 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:47:41pm

re: #33 Charles

Now that there's another post at the top of the home page, the real nuts are beginning to show up in the previous thread.

Just like clockwork.

When you turn out the lights, the rats come out.

46 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:47:46pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

Jundullah (Soldiers of God)

ruh roh... where you going with this? You could have posted:

Al Queada or terrorist organizations.

47 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:47:54pm

Damn, forgot to start a flounce pool on this thread.

48 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:48:24pm

re: #44 Wookieelips

What's to make of it besides wishing it would go away?
I've been feeling so much better since moving to south Georgia & I've been avoiding politics in general. Strange for me, but I felt staying away from the news helped me relax, especially with my husband in Iraq.
I missed LGF, though.

Is your husband home now?

49 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:48:49pm

re: #37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They think they are doing God's work.

So did Mohammed Atta.

50 VioletTiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:48:57pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Yeah, lots of them.


How did these people find each other before the internet I wonder?

51 Irish Rose  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:49:14pm

re: #38 Ray in TX

These people are our very own home-grown terrorists and every single one of them should be under survellience and talking on tapped phones.

A little over the top, perhaps?

52 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:50:15pm

re: #49 Charles

So did Mohammed Atta.

Oh, no doubt. That was not meant as a defense.

53 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:51:22pm

re: #50 VioletTiger

How did these people find each other before the internet I wonder?

They used to publish news letters by subscription. Birch Society, militias, cults, etc all used to do it before the internet.

54 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:51:50pm

re: #39 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(in only briefly)

IMHO, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference, in attitude, between Spitz and the Islamist Fascists. Spitz appears to be willing to kill in the name of God. If he himself isn't willing to do the act, he certainly seems to be eager to farm it out.

It also appears that Spitz thinks he knows God's mind. The question is, does he believe he knows it better than God does?

/no sarc whatsoever

Yes- people like this think they know better than God. They show a lack of trust in God to handle the situation, they decide to play God themselves, and they disrespect God in shunning the commandments these people claim to believe in.

55 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:52:17pm

re: #37 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They think they are doing God's work. That's why I think they are misguided and crazy.

To me, this goes beyond misguided and crazy. This is just out and out evil. Reminds me of the Ghandi quote: "I like your Christ. I do not like your
Christians. They are so unlike your Christ."

Always makes me wonder if they got the version of the New Testament with the Jesus parts edited out.

56 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:52:48pm

re: #51 Irish Rose

A little over the top, perhaps?

Not at all. Do you not think it is the FBI's job to monitor extremist groups with a history of violence that are actively making threats against other citizens?

What exactly are we paying them for? We have wiretaps for a reason.

57 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:52:58pm

Best name for a terrorist organization ever? Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat ! I think they changed their name, bummer.

58 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:53:08pm

I hope and pray that the FBI is all over this and is offering protection to the church.

59 Wookieelips  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:53:28pm

re: #48 Dark_Falcon

Is your husband home now?

About 9-12 more days!

Is it bad that this kind of stuff doesn't even shock, phase or anger me all that much anymore? "Oh, another crazy person killed someone because they think God wanted them to? Ok...what's for dinner?"

60 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:54:12pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Best name for a terrorist organization ever? Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat ! I think they changed their name, bummer.

The American translation of that name is "The Army of God."

61 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:54:41pm

re: #60 Charles

Yeehaw!
/

62 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:54:43pm

re: #51 Irish Rose

A little over the top, perhaps?

I don't think it's over the top. If someone takes part in activities like this, they should be under surveillance. These are criminal acts, and a domestic act of terror kills as easily as one perpetrated by a Jihadist.

63 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:56:02pm

re: #59 Wookieelips

About 9-12 more days!

Is it bad that this kind of stuff doesn't even shock, phase or anger me all that much anymore? "Oh, another crazy person killed someone because they think God wanted them to? Ok...what's for dinner?"

After a while, any type of news will lose its ability to shock. We've all been seeing this sort of evil for 8 years now. It still angers me, but its ceased to surprise me.

64 Wookieelips  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:57:02pm

re: #62 Will Robinson

I don't think it's over the top. If someone takes part in activities like this, they should be under surveillance. These are criminal acts, and a domestic act of terror kills as easily as one perpetrated by a Jihadist.

cosign

65 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:57:07pm

re: #50 VioletTiger

How did these people find each other before the internet I wonder?

Zines, propaganda handed out at places like gun shows - note, I'm not bashing on guns, most gun owners or gun shows... but as anyone who has been to one can attest, you'll find at least one table full of self-published books of crazy conspiracy goodness and a lot of Nazi memorabilia at most gun shows. When I was part of the LP, I did a shift at our table at the gun show and while most of the other vendors and attendees were really cool, there was a noticeable minority of folks who were ... shall we say a few rounds shy of a full magazine.

66 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:58:20pm

re: #22 BigPapa

The Army of God uses "leaderless resistance" as its organizing principle,[5][6] but several individuals have publicly associated themselves with the group:

* Rev. Michael Bray, considered the "chaplain of the Army of God".[citation needed]
* Neal Horsley head of the Georgia-based Creator's Rights Party.
* Shelley Shannon, non-fatally shot Dr. George Tiller
* Rev. Donald Spitz, head of Pro-Life Virginia and keeper of the AOG web site.
* Clayton Waagner

Others loosely affiliated with, or in some support of, the "AOG" include:

* Jack Cashill, columnist/reporter for WorldNetDaily
* Wiley Drake, California Southern Baptist pastor and former 2008 Vice-Presidential candidate of the American Independent Party
* Drew Heiss, Streetpreach.com
* Dan Holman, Missionaries to the Preborn - Iowa [7]
* Stephen Jordi, convicted of plotting clinic attacks.
* Dave Leach, publisher of Prayer & Action News magazine
* Bob Lokey[8]
* Scott Roeder, American anti-abortionist charged with the murder of George Tiller [9]
* Eric Robert Rudolph, American anti-abortionist and convicted bomber.
* Chuck Spingola of Unashamed & Associates, Newark, Ohio
* Matthew Trewhella, Missionaries to the Preborn - Wisconsin
* Father David Trosch
* Stephen Wetzel (Missionaries to the Unborn)[8]
* Bill Whatcott, Canadian anti-abortion crusader
* Troy Newman, President Operation Rescue West. [10]

Bombings, shootings, murders. If they had Arabic surnames what would we call them?

A terror cell...

67 jdog29  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:58:39pm

Dear Mr. Spitz,
Really? REALLY?? When your teacher, Jesus Christ, or at least you claim Him as your teacher --- When Jesus told you specifically to love and pray for your enemies and bless those who try to hurt you; Matt 5.43-44, Did you not understand the meaning or did you just choose to ignore them?

Professing to be a Christian myself, I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, but I am ashamed of you perverting the gospel to support your own personal rebellion against God; Romans 13.2. You are obviously trying to use the message of Jesus Christ as a personal license for immorality (Jude 4) and rest assured your own day of reckoning is not far off.

68 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:58:39pm

re: #65 ~Fianna

Zines, propaganda handed out at places like gun shows - note, I'm not bashing on guns, most gun owners or gun shows... but as anyone who has been to one can attest, you'll find at least one table full of self-published books of crazy conspiracy goodness and a lot of Nazi memorabilia at most gun shows. When I was part of the LP, I did a shift at our table at the gun show and while most of the other vendors and attendees were really cool, there was a noticeable minority of folks who were ... shall we say a few rounds shy of a full magazine.

The worst thing about that table is that nothing on it is worthy of joining my crankery shelf.

69 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 6:59:05pm

Off topic: I'm reminded again why I haven't put in some kind of threaded commenting system. I've been checking in occasionally to this Daily Kos thread about LGF to see what new comments have been posted, but it's nearly impossible to tell -- because the comments are threaded. New comments might show up anywhere in the list, and the only way to find them is to read the whole damned mess over and over.

LGF's unthreaded comments have some disadvantages, but at least you know that if you go to the end of the thread you're seeing the most recent comments.

70 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:00:27pm

re: #69 Charles

The reply and quote buttons help a lot.

71 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:01:02pm

re: #66 talon_262

A terror cell...

roger that

72 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:02:00pm

re: #69 Charles

I have tried to read Kos (when someone over here points something out over there) can't make a damn bit of sense out of it.

Stopped trying.

Yet another reason why I don't go to other sites.

73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:02:20pm

re: #69 Charles

Oh, and thanks for busting your ass for this site.

74 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:03:16pm

re: #68 Dianna

The worst thing about that table is that nothing on it is worthy of joining my crankery shelf.

Some of it is interesting for a laugh, but I couldn't imagine reading it more than once or taking it seriously.

A friend of mine posted something from some of the military family support forums that she's on all about how Obama is sending troops to Afghanistan because we're going to be under martial law by UN troops at the end of the month cause Kissinger promised the EU and UN that he'd deliver us and they want the real American troops all out of the country so that they can't defend us. It was very long and descriptive and full of links to Alex Jones. It's just staggering what these people will believe. Now we have to worry about red motorcycles along with the regular old black helicopters.

75 Racer X  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:03:31pm

re: #69 Charles

Off topic: I'm reminded again why I haven't put in some kind of threaded commenting system. I've been checking in occasionally to this Daily Kos thread about LGF to see what new comments have been posted, but it's nearly impossible to tell -- because the comments are threaded. New comments might show up anywhere in the list, and the only way to find them is to read the whole damned mess over and over.

LGF's unthreaded comments have some disadvantages, but at least you know that if you go to the end of the thread you're seeing the most recent comments.

And thank you for keeping it this way - I hate threaded comments.

76 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:04:46pm

re: #69 Charles

It is a good format, and a successful one. Also easy to view.
Hard to jam a moby comment in, and claim it is tacitly approved.

If people want to converse privately, the web has many venues where they can do so.

77 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:05:10pm

re: #75 Racer X

And thank you for keeping it this way - I hate threaded comments.

Me too. I like being able to easily find the most recent comments.

78 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:05:11pm

re: #54 Sharmuta

Yes- people like this think they know better than God. They show a lack of trust in God to handle the situation, they decide to play God themselves, and they disrespect God in shunning the commandments these people claim to believe in.

Back in for one last moment.

I beg to differ on one point ... "a lack of trust in God".

I understand what you mean.

These people haven't a clue, and furthermore, don't want a clue. They are quite certain that God is at their back. There's no reason for them to have what we'd call Faith.

/the only difference among them is whether this one or that one expects virgins, or not.

*now gone for supper, be back tomorrow*

79 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:05:18pm

re: #75 Racer X

And thank you for keeping it this way - I hate threaded comments.

I had to go over to Daily Kos to see threaded comments...it's pure chaos over there. If someone replies to me, I might never find it.

80 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:05:53pm
81 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:06:08pm

re: #74 ~Fianna

I'll make a note of the red motorcycles.
/

82 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:07:07pm

re: #69 Charles

I've been checking in occasionally to this Daily Kos thread about LGF to see what new comments have been posted, but it's nearly impossible to tell -- because the comments are threaded.

I can not stand their format of threaded comments. Its like a phone book thats not in alphabetical order.

83 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:07:32pm

re: #80 HarpJ

"Interracial"?!

84 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:08:27pm

re: #74 ~Fianna


S-I-L is infowars fan.

85 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:08:31pm

re: #73 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, and thanks for busting your ass for this site.

Charles sure has spent plenty of time slaving away over a hot keyboard all these years creating and continuously upgrading LGF, for relatively little reward and a metric shit-ton of headaches (from stalkers, haters, and the like).

Anyways, I certainly appreciate all of his hard work...LGF is definitely a high-tech blog palace.

86 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:10:04pm

re: #80 HarpJ

What in the hell was that?

Get off my website.

87 Chip Designer  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:10:32pm

re: #60 Charles

The American translation of that name is "The Army of God."

Isn't the translation of Hezbollah the "Army of God"?

88 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:10:52pm

re: #81 Dianna

I'll make a note of the red motorcycles.
/

If anyone's interested, I found the post, so I can share. It's truly... special. It's got all the regular conspiracy bases covered.

89 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:11:31pm

There's another big flounce being planned at the stalker blog, by the way.

90 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:11:41pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

Jundullah (Soldiers of God)

ruh roh... where you going with this? You could have posted:

Al Queada or terrorist organizations.

91 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:12:00pm

re: #89 Charles

There's another big flounce being planned at the stalker blog, by the way.

Splodeyposter.

92 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:12:01pm

re: #83 Dianna

"Interracial"?!

re: #86 Charles

What in the hell was that?

Get off my website.

Scratch one racist! Charles Johnson, cleaning the Internet of scumbags, one troll at a time.

93 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:12:33pm

re: #88 ~Fianna

If anyone's interested, I found the post, so I can share. It's truly... special. It's got all the regular conspiracy bases covered.

Sure, I'm blue. Send it on.

94 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:13:01pm

re: #22 BigPapa

The Army of God uses "leaderless resistance" as its organizing principle,[5][6] but several individuals have publicly associated themselves with the group:
* Shelley Shannon, non-fatally shot Dr. George Tiller

Shelley Shannon conducted extensive correspondence with the murderer of David Gunn, IIRC, and she went on to correspond with Paul Hill. She was eventually also convicted of 30 clinic bombings, fires, and acid attacks.

When they searched her house they found buried in the backyard a copy of the Army of God manual. Excerpts available here and here.

As we mentioned at the beginning of this article, the Army of God manual has gone through three editions. Beginning with criminal mischief, then progressing to felony crimes, the Epilogue of the third edition simply calls for murder.

More:

In response to the question, "What should concerned citizens do?" the AoG says,

"Every Pro-Life person should commit to destroying at least one death camp, or disarming at least one baby-killer. The former is a relatively easy task - the latter could be quite difficult to accomplish."

They call for...Home Schooling:

The best way to long term covert success is found by adding new activist blood. Your children are your greatest resource--especially if you keep them out of public school or, "hell".

"The public school system (read: government school system) is a jungle. The jungle is just down the street from you. And so are the pushers: drug pushers, values clarification pushers, contraception and abortion without parental notification pushers, man is a product of evolution chance pushers, anti-religion, anti-parent, anti-American pushers."

The author asserts that nearly all of the committed covert teen activists have been home schooled. Single parents are cautioned against covert activity because it will take them away from their children. The suggestion is made that the most dedicated activist should consider celibacy because,

"...practically speaking, a covert activist with no ties could save thousands of children and their mothers in a lifetime."

Includes instuctions on firebombing, etc:


For those unable to find time or tools to crack building foundations, the AoG offers detailed instructions, including pictures, on the manufacture of C4 or plastique, a powerful military explosive. In typical anti-federal government language, the AoG says,

"... the federal government monopolizes C-4, making it next to impossible to purchase. We can't count on buying and caching military explosives for use against the killers."

There follows a knowledgeable discussion of the ingredients used in C-4 and how to obtain them. While cautioning this is a dangerous project, pictures, obviously taken in someone's home, show step by step what to do.

95 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:13:06pm

re: #84 swamprat

S-I-L is infowars fan.

Oooh, that's gotta be hard. It must make family gatherings interesting and frustrating if you're polite and bite your tongue.

96 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:13:58pm

re: #94 iceweasel

So, if the shoe fits... ? Yes, it fits.

97 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:14:15pm

re: #89 Charles

There's another big flounce being planned at the stalker blog, by the way.

You'd think they'd learn that it'd be much more effective if they'd keep their sooper seekrit plans ... uh... secret.

98 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:14:46pm

Here's the Army of God's Declaration. Remember that woman at the teaparty with the sign about blood crying out from the ground?

Beginning officially with the Freedom of Choice Act -- we, the remnant of God-fearing men and women of the United States of America, do officially declare war on the entire child killing industry. After praying, fasting, and making continual supplication to God for your pagan, heathen, infidel souls, we then peacefully, passively presented our bodies in front of your death camps, begging you to stop the mass murdering of infants. Yet you hardened your already blackened, jaded hearts. We quietly accepted the resulting imprisonment and suffering of our passive resistance. Yet you mocked God and continued the Holocaust.

No longer! All of the options have expired. Our Most Dread Sovereign Lord God requires that whosoever sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed. Not out of hatred of you, but out of love for the persons you exterminate, we are forced to take arms against you. Our life for yours - a simple equation. Dreadful. Sad. Reality, nonetheless. You shall not be tortured at our hands. Vengeance belongs to God only. However, execution is rarely gentle

99 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:15:14pm

re: #69 Charles

Ive been reading the site for many years and even I can't follow it.

100 Altermite  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:15:57pm

re: #98 iceweasel

Here's the Army of God's Declaration. Remember that woman at the teaparty with the sign about blood crying out from the ground?

When was that written/published?

101 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:16:01pm

re: #86 Charles

What in the hell was that?

Get off my website.

Another one-and-done (probable) sock...

102 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:16:23pm

re: #89 Charles

May we offer a "preemptive" buh bye?

103 jaunte  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:16:25pm

re: #89 Charles

There's another big flounce being planned at the stalker blog, by the way.

I wonder how long they will make themselves slaves to this pointless activity.

104 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:16:52pm

re: #69 Charles

Threaded comments suck. This is way better.

105 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:17:04pm

re: #93 Dianna

Sure, I'm blue. Send it on.

Sent.

106 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:17:31pm

re: #104 iceweasel

Oh, I'm sorry.

You were saying?...
/

107 VioletTiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:17:59pm

re: #96 BigPapa

So, if the shoe fits... ? Yes, it fits.


If the shoe fits, buy it in every color...

108 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:18:13pm

re: #94 iceweasel

Great find, ice. It should be put in our Know Your Enemy File.

109 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:18:23pm

re: #103 jaunte

I wonder how long they will make themselves slaves to this pointless activity.

Until they get therapy.

110 VioletTiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:18:46pm

re: #101 talon_262

Another one-and-done (probable) sock...

That was its only comment, and it registered in June. Weird.

111 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:18:54pm

re: #103 jaunte

Not pointless, as is serves their adolescent emotional needs, Jaunte Not rational, but pointed nonetheless...

"Its yr bloggie but I'll flounce if I want to,
flounce if I want to,
flounce if I want to,
You would flounce to if it happened to you!"
Victim Theater Choir

112 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:19:38pm

re: #100 Altermite

When was that written/published?

The article is from 97. The AOG manual was then in its third edition. I'm certain it's since had other editions. At the time it was spread in the form of xerox copies by mail or hand.

Now? It's probably a downloadable PDF hosted somewhere that's ever-changing. It probably circulates as email attachments. These bastards are linked up all over the place and can find each other more easily than ever because of the web.

And Operation Rescue is their public face and feeds the extremists into the AoG loop.

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:19:39pm

re: #110 VioletTiger

Yeah. Not nearly as patient as a Jihadist.

114 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:19:40pm

re: #69 Charles

Threaded comments! Eek!
I remember a while ago (year or two) a lizard took all the comments from one thread and linked to a page where s/he had turned them into threaded comments. It did not get positive reviews.

115 idioma  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:19:45pm

I stand by my assertion that groups like this are America's version of the Taliban.

116 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:19:55pm

re: #105 ~Fianna

Sent.

Got.

Thanks.

117 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:19:56pm

re: #111 Karridine

LMAO!

118 jaunte  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:20:08pm

re: #111 Karridine

I hope they can grow up eventually.

119 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:20:20pm

re: #95 ~Fianna

"Uh, all bankers are evil? How do you expect people to buy houses and cars?"

120 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:20:20pm

re: #115 idioma

I stand by my assertion that groups like this are America's version of the Taliban.

I concur with your assertion.

121 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:22:20pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

Great find, ice. It should be put in our Know Your Enemy File.


Cheers DF. I've posted links to some Shelley Shannon info before. Can't remember if I posted the AoG manual stuff, though. If I did it was at the end of an old thread.

Great vid! BBL

122 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:22:43pm

re: #94 iceweasel

OMFG...

123 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:23:00pm

re: #105 ~Fianna

They're writing from the Rogue River Country! Woot!

I used to drive through there, now and again. A couple times, I saw people standing by the road in the middle of the night wearing nothing but blankets.

124 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:23:21pm

re: #118 jaunte

You and I both, Jaunte... :D

125 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:23:47pm

re: #87 Chip Designer

Isn't the translation of Hezbollah the "Army of God"?

The purple jelly bean to you!

126 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:23:53pm

re: #119 swamprat

"Uh, all bankers are evil? How do you expect people to buy houses and cars?"

Does logic work?

127 The Shadow Do  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:24:56pm

re: #115 idioma

I stand by my assertion that groups like this are America's version of the Taliban.

It would probably be more accurate to describe them as wannabe Taliban.

128 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:25:01pm

re: #123 Dianna

They're writing from the Rogue River Country! Woot!

I used to drive through there, now and again. A couple times, I saw people standing by the road in the middle of the night wearing nothing but blankets.

Do you have any idea why they were wearing nothing but blankets and standing by the road? This seems like a very interesting place. I think I will go out of my way to avoid it.

129 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:25:54pm

re: #128 ~Fianna

Do you have any idea why they were wearing nothing but blankets and standing by the road? This seems like a very interesting place. I think I will go out of my way to avoid it.

Well, since I was a 20-something girl alone, I didn't stop to ask. I've wondered ever since.

130 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:26:18pm

re: #125 MandyManners

Hezb' translates as Party, as in "Hezb'ullah, the Party of God" being a political faction

131 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:28:39pm

re: #130 Karridine

Hezb' translates as Party, as in "Hezb'ullah, the Party of God" being a political faction

I usually write "Hizb'allah". Is that acceptable?

132 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:29:21pm
133 sagehen  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:31:22pm

re: #104 iceweasel

Threaded comments suck. This is way better.

Threaded comments work great for logged in members -- when you come back to the post later, there's a "new" graphic at each comment added since your last visit. It's a handy way to track back which replies go to what, and to easily skip the threads you don't care about.

For visitors, it's only convenient if you're a one-time only reader of that post.

134 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:31:32pm

re: #132 MikeySDCA

Isn't "faction"perhaps a bit harsh?

How so?

135 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:32:13pm

re: #126 ~Fianna

Historically logic is an efficient tool.

Oh, you mean for him. Never thought to try. I figured if he got to this state on his own, it would be like giving a dog a vacuum cleaner, or a fish a bicycle.

136 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:32:46pm

re: #122 talon_262

OMFG...

Yes. I hope Charles updates his post with a link to his old post that had the AoG documentary. Everyone should see it.

Notice also the confluence of many elements in the AoG manual: anti-government sentiment, anti-public school sentiment, anti-evolution. There's a great deal of crossover amongst these groups. So-called 'lone wolves' have loose ties to or associations with various extremist groups typically, and then when one of them does something everyone plays "keep away", throwing the guy back and forth and arguing "Well, he isn't exactly on the right...he had no official ties to Operation Rescue..." etc., etc.

The AoG though explicitly outlines plans for operating as lone individuals, and as BigPapa pointed out upthread, they choose to work in leaderless sorts of cells. This is why it's been incredibly difficult for the organisation as a whole to be identified and stopped.

During the Clinton administration (the last time we had a huge wave of abortion related violence and AoG activity) there was a multiyear effort to prosecute and identify some of these people. It failed. And the Bush DOJ did not prosecute with the same level of intensity:

[Link: washingtonindependent.com...]

The NAF — the organization that most closely tracks such data in the United States — also reports that between 2000 and 2008 there were at least 17 cases of “extreme” violence against abortion providers in the United States, such as arson, stabbing and bomb attacks. At least 607 letters threatening Anthrax contamination (they did not actually contain anthrax) were sent to abortion providers between 2000 and 2002 alone. During the entire eight years of the Bush administration, the federal government prosecuted only 11 individuals for any acts of violence against abortion clinics or providers.

137 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:33:12pm
138 markie  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:34:05pm

re: #1 Karridine

If so, that damnation comes from God, not from people...

Nothing like self-appointed agents of the Lord...nothing.

139 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:34:29pm

re: #130 Karridine

Hezb' translates as Party, as in "Hezb'ullah, the Party of God" being a political faction

Yep - "The Party of God" is the correct translation according to what I've read too.

140 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:35:11pm

re: #138 markie

Nothing like self-appointed agents of the Lord...nothing.

No, there isn't. We lost three thousand people to scum like that on 9/11.

141 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:35:13pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

Best name for a terrorist organization ever? Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat ! I think they changed their name, bummer.

You ever hear of M.I.L.F.?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

142 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:35:34pm

re: #129 Dianna

Well, since I was a 20-something girl alone, I didn't stop to ask. I've wondered ever since.

Waiting for the mothership, maybe?

143 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:36:00pm

re: #137 MikeySDCA

In English, "faction" implies divisiveness, and is often used in a derogatory sense.

So, you're saying that there is no division?

144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:36:37pm

"Stupid Flounce"

You can flounce if you want to.
You can leave all of us behind
'Cause your friends, they've flounced
And they're waiting for your bounce - well then, you're way behind
Say, you can go when you want to
To a place way over there
And we will act (when we laugh) that it mattered to us, but
We didn't really care.

You can flounce, You can flounce
Your friends are all out of control
You can flounce, You can flounce
They'll think that you're really droll.
You can flounce, You can flounce
Join 'em in the land of the banned
You can flounce, You can flounce
For all we care, you can pound sand...

The stupid flounce
The stupid flo-unce
The stupid flounce.


Yeah, it's not Buzz. But it's all I got.

145 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:37:01pm

re: #136 iceweasel

The AoG though explicitly outlines plans for operating as lone individuals, and as BigPapa pointed out upthread, they choose to work in leaderless sorts of cells. This is why it's been incredibly difficult for the organisation as a whole to be identified and stopped.

There's that 'cells' thingy again.

146 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:37:28pm

re: #135 swamprat

Historically logic is an efficient tool.

Oh, you mean for him. Never thought to try. I figured if he got to this state on his own, it would be like giving a dog a vacuum cleaner, or a fish a bicycle.

I wish my dog did something with a vacuum cleaner.

I think I ran in to a nirther at a gathering I was at last night. Fortunately we were called to another group before the conversation progressed too far. I wasn't sure what I'd have done if he'd started in with kookspiracy crap.

147 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:38:23pm
148 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:38:39pm

re: #142 ~Fianna

Waiting for the mothership, maybe?

They looked cold, confused, and dirty. I suspected major drug issues.

BTW, I finished that email. Yep, total lunacy.

149 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:38:48pm

re: #141 bosforus

You ever hear of M.I.L.F.?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I have, but it doesn't mean what they think in means...

150 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:39:02pm

re: #133 sagehen

Threaded comments work great for logged in members -- when you come back to the post later, there's a "new" graphic at each comment added since your last visit. It's a handy way to track back which replies go to what, and to easily skip the threads you don't care about.

For visitors, it's only convenient if you're a one-time only reader of that post.

IIRC DKos also offers a few sorting methods for logged in users so you can view new content last and whatnot.

151 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:39:25pm

re: #141 bosforus

You ever hear of M.I.L.F.?
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

OMG. They must be pissed.

152 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:39:31pm

re: #144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"Stupid Flounce"

You can flounce if you want to.
You can leave all of us behind
'Cause your friends, they've flounced
And they're waiting for your bounce - well then, you're way behind
Say, you can go when you want to
To a place way over there
And we will act (when we laugh) that it mattered to us, but
We didn't really care.

You can flounce, You can flounce
Your friends are all out of control
You can flounce, You can flounce
They'll think that you're really droll.
You can flounce, You can flounce
Join 'em in the land of the banned
You can flounce, You can flounce
For all we care, you can pound sand...

The stupid flounce
The stupid flo-unce
The stupid flounce.

Yeah, it's not Buzz. But it's all I got.

Which ain't fucking much :) :)

153 Ben G. Hazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:39:42pm

re: #144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Good enough for government work... ;-P

154 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:39:51pm

re: #146 ~Fianna

I wish my dog did something with a vacuum cleaner.

I think I ran in to a nirther at a gathering I was at last night. Fortunately we were called to another group before the conversation progressed too far. I wasn't sure what I'd have done if he'd started in with kookspiracy crap.

Put your head in your hands and groan, or point and laugh.

155 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:40:04pm

re: #144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LMAO! That was splendid, FVBWaH (Fat Vegetarian Bastard Without a Hat). :D

156 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:40:07pm

re: #148 Dianna

They looked cold, confused, and dirty. I suspected major drug issues.

BTW, I finished that email. Yep, total lunacy.

It does cover all the bases, though. I was surprised there wasn't any nirtherness mentioned, but we got chemtrails, anti-vax, new world order antisemitism... I certainly give it an A for effort.

157 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:40:07pm

re: #151 BigPapa

OMG. They must be pissed.

I'd bet they are!

158 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:40:39pm

re: #152 Walter L. Newton

Hey! It's "Men without Hats"!, Bitch!

159 MandyManners  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:40:52pm

Finally, Mr. Grumpy is asleep. And, I hope to be so soon.

Happy Birthday, Marvin Lee Aday!


160 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:41:05pm

re: #22 BigPapa

The Army of God uses "leaderless resistance" as its organizing principle

Sounds like any typical Anarchist group.

161 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:41:16pm

re: #149 Will Robinson

I'm sure those boys are proud to grow up and become a milf.

162 VioletTiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:41:48pm

re: #144 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Now I am going to hear that song all night!

163 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:42:42pm

re: #161 bosforus

I'm sure those boys are proud to grow up and become a milf.

...and what MILF's they'll become...

Of course, I think Matt Damon popularized the term "cougar" to remove the more sordid connotation of MILF...

164 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:43:29pm

re: #154 Dianna

Put your head in your hands and groan, or point and laugh.

I was just taken aback. It wasn't the kind of group where I was expecting that sort of thing. He's also a doctoral candidate in Liberal Arts, so I was assuming his politics would be more left-kook than right-kook if he were a kook of any kind. Shows what making advance judgements gets you.

165 sagehen  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:43:42pm

re: #163 Will Robinson

...and what MILF's they'll become...

Of course, I think Matt Damon popularized the term "cougar" to remove the more sordid connotation of MILF...


naw... MILF's are the ones you chase, cougars chase you.

166 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:45:45pm

re: #165 sagehen

naw... MILF's are the ones you chase, cougars chase you.

either way, they're older and hornier (can I say horny?)

167 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:45:59pm

re: #160 Slumbering Behemoth

Sounds like any typical Anarchist group.

It's a leadership strategy that only makes sense if you have an apocalyptic world view. Hey, I wonder if there's a lot of 'End of Days' talk in their circles...
naw, that would be crazy.

168 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:47:17pm

New actor on SNL slipped and dropped the F-bomb last night on the air.

Uh... oops?

169 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:47:36pm

re: #166 Will Robinson

either way, they're older and hornier (can I say horny?)

Not while Opie is your avatar.
Oh wait, that's not Opie is it? Is that that kid that sent people to the corn fields in that Twilight Zone episode?

170 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:48:32pm

re: #84 swamprat

S-I-L is infowars fan.

Ugh! You have my condolences. I hope, for your sake, SIL stands for sister in law, rather than son in law.

171 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:48:39pm

re: #169 bosforus

Not while Opie is your avatar.
Oh wait, that's not Opie is it? Is that that kid that sent people to the corn fields in that Twilight Zone episode?

Dude, that ain't Opie, that's Will Robinson...You know...Lost in Space?

172 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:49:59pm

re: #170 Slumbering Behemoth

Ugh! You have my condolences. I hope, for your sake, SIL stands for sister in law, rather than son in law.

He said he later, so I'm thinking son in law.

173 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:50:31pm

re: #165 sagehen

naw... MILF's are the ones you chase, cougars chase you.

So both sexes are free to pursue happiness and the happiness of pursuit. Welcome to America! :)

174 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:52:02pm

re: #171 Will Robinson

I have no excuse. I've never watched Lost in Space.

175 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:52:10pm

re: #173 SteveC

WHAT A COUNTRY!

176 VioletTiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:52:17pm

re: #171 Will Robinson

Dude, that ain't Opie, that's Will Robinson...You know...Lost in Space?

I remember the day that show debuted (I was just little one, of course).

177 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:52:28pm

re: #132 MikeySDCA

Ack! I'm a linguist, not a politician! :D
And yes, Hezb' is acceptable because the vowel voiced there is like a short e or short i in English...

/Sheesh, TOUGH CROWD...

178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:52:38pm

re: #174 bosforus

Honesty ding.

179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:53:34pm

re: #162 VioletTiger

My work here is finished!

(not a flounce)

180 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:53:43pm

re: #171 Will Robinson

Dude, that ain't Opie, that's Will Robinson...You know...Lost in Space?

But I was also right about him in the Twilight Zone!
It's a Good Life

181 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:54:22pm

re: #174 bosforus

I have no excuse. I've never watched Lost in Space.

Ever watch Babylon 5?

Same actor played Lennier...the Mimbari assistant to DeLenn

182 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:54:27pm

re: #179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My work here is finished!

(not a flounce)

Oh, a faux flounce... a faux flounce...

183 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:54:51pm

re: #175 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

WHAT A COUNTRY!

Whoa, you like to think that you're immune to the stuff,
oh yeah
Its closer to the truth to say you cant get enough,
you know you're
Gonna have to face it, you're addicted to love!

184 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:55:45pm

re: #154 Dianna

We need to out-crazy the crazies;
"Yes he was born in Kenya, and the Government knows all about it. He was born on a top-secret military base. His mother was a russian spy, and his daddy was a U.S general who was being compromised. He used his position to make sure the Mata Hari got the best medical care...
..oil...
...uranium...
...aliens...
...brain chip...
...engineered virus...
...(insert wild conspiracy here)...

185 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:55:47pm

re: #94 iceweasel

Good job, IW!

Here's a question:

Do you think these people have noticed the irony that they have chosen a moniker that is a translation of "Jundalah" a Sunni terrorist faction in Iran and the closely translated "Hezbollah", the Party of God?

Discuss!

186 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:55:52pm

re: #154 Dianna

Hi. Feeling better I hope.

187 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:55:53pm

re: #138 markie

Exactly, Markie... "True Believer" (Erich Fromm) was required reading in high school, circa 1964, and I'm glad it was! Armed with undeniable righteousness, they allow themselves to inflict unspeakable atrocities on fellow humans!

188 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:55:57pm

re: #180 bosforus

But I was also right about him in the Twilight Zone!
It's a Good Life

I remember that episode...

189 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:56:14pm

re: #181 Will Robinson

...the Mimbari assistant to DeLenn

Those Minbari have got it goin' on!

190 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:56:47pm

re: #188 Will Robinson

Have you registered other accounts at LGF?

191 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:57:31pm

re: #184 swamprat

Swampy, I LIKE your style!
LMAO, Dewd! :D

192 lostlakehiker  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:57:33pm

re: #39 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(in only briefly)

IMHO, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference, in attitude, between Spitz and the Islamist Fascists. Spitz appears to be willing to kill in the name of God. If he himself isn't willing to do the act, he certainly seems to be eager to farm it out.

It also appears that Spitz thinks he knows God's mind. The question is, does he believe he knows it better than God does?

/no sarc whatsoever

The difference is that there are vanishingly few Christians who act like Spitz. Who lives in hiding today from the threat of Christianists, as Salman Rushdie has had to do, as Ayaan Hirsi Ali has had to, and so forth? How many people have been murdered by Christianist fanatics? One, at least, Tiller. But that's not three thousand at a time. It's not one thousand, or one hundred, or one dozen, not even in aggregate.

193 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:57:33pm

Ruh roh...

194 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:57:39pm

re: #190 Charles

Have you registered other accounts at LGF?

Uh oh.

195 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:57:46pm

re: #181 Will Robinson

I don't watch much modern Sci-Fi unless it's a cheesy SyFy original on a Saturday afternoon. I do, however, watch a lot of 50's and 60's sci-fi b-movies. I've almost watched Lost in Space a few times but tend to watch movies from that era as opposed to TV series.

196 Mad Al-Jaffee  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:57:47pm

Hey everyone. I'm just stopping by. Just posted this in the spinoff links, enjoy:

197 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:57:48pm

re: #184 swamprat

I like it!

198 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:58:00pm

re: #190 Charles

No, I would click, but it would always be closed...

199 Dianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:58:24pm

re: #186 Naso Tang

Hi. Feeling better I hope.

Sort of. Still woozy. I'm heading for bed, now, even though it's just 8.

Goodnight!

200 jaunte  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:58:39pm

re: #185 austin_blue

I think if any of them are aware enough to notice the similarity, they can explain it away by saying that they are of course the army of the "real" God.

201 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:58:42pm

re: #190 Charles

Have you registered other accounts at LGF?

Danger, Will Robinson!

/sorry, I had to say it.

202 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:59:06pm

re: #188 Will Robinson

re: #190 Charles


What is your quest?
What is your favorite color?

203 Bagua  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:59:09pm

re: #194 austin_blue

Uh oh.

204 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:59:09pm

DANGER! DANGER!

205 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:59:15pm

re: #133 sagehen

Threaded comments work great for logged in members -- when you come back to the post later, there's a "new" graphic at each comment added since your last visit. It's a handy way to track back which replies go to what, and to easily skip the threads you don't care about.

For visitors, it's only convenient if you're a one-time only reader of that post.

My impression is that thread comments work on relatively low-volume discussions --- where you can get the full visual benefits of the threading.

Once subthreads become so large that they require a lot of scrolling, the structure becomes unwieldy and makes it more difficult to read. DKos is a high-volume site and is no longer served well by threaded discussions.

206 Bagua  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:59:36pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

GMTA

207 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:59:47pm

re: #200 jaunte

I think if any of them are aware enough to notice the similarity, they can explain it away by saying that they are of course the army of the "real" God.

Heh. That's funny and also more than likely sadly true.

208 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 7:59:55pm

re: #94 iceweasel

re: #98 iceweasel

No secret, I think, that I am very pro-life, anti-abortion, whatever label anybody wants to call it -

But these Army of God people seem to have confused themselves with God.

A lot of energy these folks are spending could be put to much better use, imo, in supporting and promoting actual programs and activities that would help people in need in a way that would allow them to make a different "choice".

Just my .02.

209 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:00:00pm

re: #197 Dianna

By the way;
Born on a base makes him legal!

210 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:01:10pm

re: #209 swamprat

By the way;
Born on a base makes him legal!

Great addition. Drive the crazy into a frenzy and then smash them back to earth.

211 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:01:58pm

re: #209 swamprat

Nevertheless, some reporters are saying the DNC did NOT get him certified in more than half the States, and that may come back and bite him on the butt...

212 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:02:08pm

re: #201 Dark_Falcon

Danger, Will Robinson!

/sorry, I had to say it.

hahahaha! Nice reflexes.

213 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:02:50pm

re: #198 Will Robinson

No, I would click, but it would always be closed...

What's with your email server? Did you miss the part about not using a throwaway email account?

214 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:03:16pm

re: #212 Ray in TX

hahahaha! Nice reflexes.

just don't start running the Major West smack...

215 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:03:24pm

re: #209 swamprat

By the way;
Born on a base makes him legal!

He was born on a British Warship, the only privacy his mother could find was behind one of the gun carriages; that makes him a Son of a Gun! :)

216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:03:56pm

We might be about to find out that Dr. Smith fucked up again.

217 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:03:57pm

Uh-oh...

218 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:04:48pm

re: #211 Karridine

Don't think anybody is worried, but let the dogs bark.

Hope all is good Carridine.

219 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:04:59pm

re: #213 Charles

What's with your email server? Did you miss the part about not using a throwaway email account?

Sensors locked...

220 What, me worry?  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:05:07pm

re: #216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We might be about to find out that Dr. Smith fucked up again.

I had a big ole crush on Bill Mumy when I was 8.

221 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:05:47pm

re: #219 Dark_Falcon

Sensors locked...

Col. Tighe... Launch the Vipers!

222 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:06:20pm

Watching the football game and just saw an occurrence of the dumbest thing in football.. Offsetting personal fouls = nothing. Two guys try to hurt each other on purpose and the refs say no big deal, its a do-over. I think a personal foul in addition to the penalty yardage should require a player to go off the field for 3 plays or something like that. Not a man advantage like in hockey, just that he has to leave the field for a few plays. Yanking someone's facemask or slamming the QB to the ground well after he's thrown the ball is a personal foul and 15 yard penalty, but if one guy from each team does it on the same play its just a do-over. Something seems wrong with that to me.

223 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:06:36pm

re: #220 marjoriemoon

I had a big ole crush on Bill Mumy when I was 8.

Didn't you ever wonder why they didn't just jettison Zachary Smith into deep space?

They must've been liberals. Kept thinking he'd rehabilitate?

224 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:06:49pm

re: #213 Charles

I use this one because I can access this email from work. I can't use home email at work, and we have interesting rules about releasing our work email addresses. I use this one also for when I travel, as I can't access home or work email when I'm on the road.

225 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:06:59pm

re: #221 SteveC

Col. Tighe... Launch the Vipers!

So the Lost in Space robot is really a Cylon?

226 Bagua  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:07:28pm

re: #221 SteveC

Col. Tighe... Launch the Vipers!

Stop I say, he's innocent of a puppet, no troll would use such an endearing icon. There must be an innocent explanation.

227 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:07:49pm

re: #225 Dark_Falcon

So the Lost in Space robot is really a Cylon?

"Damn toasters!"

228 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:08:37pm

re: #224 Will Robinson

WWW.mail2web.com

Try it. You'll like it.

229 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:09:01pm

So, the sins of the ONE are passed to the MANY?

No free will involved?

I am so confused.

230 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:09:02pm

re: #222 Mich-again

Watching the football game and just saw an occurrence of the dumbest thing in football.. Offsetting personal fouls = nothing. Two guys try to hurt each other on purpose and the refs say no big deal, its a do-over. I think a personal foul in addition to the penalty yardage should require a player to go off the field for 3 plays or something like that. Not a man advantage like in hockey, just that he has to leave the field for a few plays. Yanking someone's facemask or slamming the QB to the ground well after he's thrown the ball is a personal foul and 15 yard penalty, but if one guy from each team does it on the same play its just a do-over. Something seems wrong with that to me.

agreed...offsetting penalties are okay unless one is more potent for injury than another and that one should be enforced...if they are relatively identical, what can you do?...play it over

231 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:09:06pm

re: #227 SteveC

"Damn toasters!"

the blond one was not too bad...

232 funky chicken  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:09:17pm

And if the GOP doesn't properly rebuke these fanatics, and instead lets them become the public face of the party, I guess it's brought damnation (well, electoral defeat) upon itself.

233 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:10:42pm

Wizard of Oz is on tbs if anyone's interested. Just started, too.

234 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:10:48pm

re: #224 Will Robinson

I use this one because I can access this email from work. I can't use home email at work, and we have interesting rules about releasing our work email addresses. I use this one also for when I travel, as I can't access home or work email when I'm on the road.

Really? You can't use a Road Runner email address at work? But an obscure free email service is fine?

235 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:10:50pm

re: #232 funky chicken

And if the GOP doesn't properly rebuke these fanatics, and instead lets them become the public face of the party, I guess it's brought damnation (well, electoral defeat) upon itself.

Quite Concur.

236 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:11:59pm

re: #229 ggt

Works the other way too.
So everthing is equal.

237 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:12:06pm

re: #232 funky chicken

And if the GOP doesn't properly rebuke these fanatics, and instead lets them become the public face of the party, I guess it's brought damnation (well, electoral defeat) upon itself.

how do you know that?...they are alot of numbers and who's to say they won't all support the same nominee?...

238 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:12:12pm

re: #233 bosforus

Wizard of Oz is on tbs if anyone's interested. Just started, too.

Featuring Pam Geller as the Wicked Witch of the West. Throw the water of logic on her screeds and they melt away.

239 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:12:34pm

re: #231 Will Robinson

the blond one was not too bad...

And Boomer/Sharon/Athena/Whatever caused me to load my launch tubes, several times!

240 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:12:50pm

re: #208 reine.de.tout

re: #98 iceweasel

No secret, I think, that I am very pro-life, anti-abortion, whatever label anybody wants to call it -

But these Army of God people seem to have confused themselves with God.

A lot of energy these folks are spending could be put to much better use, imo, in supporting and promoting actual programs and activities that would help people in need in a way that would allow them to make a different "choice".

Just my .02.

Reine:

I've been trying to find, over several years, if there can be some common ground between the pro-life and pro-choice contingents. Then I found this:

In the late 1967, the first heart transplant took place in South Africa. As the procedure was refined, it became apparent that it could extend human life for years if not decades. Later on, it became clear that it *could* extend life for decades.

But it begged the question, because it needed live donors: What is the definition of human death while a heart is still beating? Medical philosophers and doctors discussed the issue and came up with a workable definition- no higher cerebral function, no human life.

If this is a workable definition of human death, why can't it be a workable definition of human life? No forebrain, no human.

241 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:13:02pm
242 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:13:43pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

Quite Concur.

quite concur all you want...it's unfounded speculation

243 Will Robinson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:14:15pm

re: #234 Charles

I can't access it from work. I don't know how obscure this email is. I know it's web based. If that's not allowed, I can certainly respect that.

244 funky chicken  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:14:25pm

re: #237 albusteve

how do you know that?...they are alot of numbers and who's to say they won't all support the same nominee?...

John McCain

245 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:14:48pm

re: #233 bosforus

Wizard of Oz is on tbs if anyone's interested. Just started, too.

That was my favorite movie growing up. I loved the transformation to color when she stepped out of the house in Oz. Little things like that make a big impression on kids.

I made sure to let my daughters experience that movie at an early age, although it kind of backfired...

246 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:15:05pm

An upding, Dark Falcon

247 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:15:25pm

re: #230 albusteve

Then again, "the code" takes care of the jerks who try to take out someone's knee or injure a QB on purpose. And the refs can always toss out a guy of the game, but that almost never happens. Its doesn't really come across as being a problem until there are offsetting penalties and it ends up being a "do-over" like in a game of kickball on the sandlot.

248 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:15:30pm

re: #246 Karridine

An upding, Dark Falcon

Thank you, sir.

249 funky chicken  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:15:31pm

anyhow, just a hit and run tonight. good night!

250 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:15:54pm

re: #244 funky chicken

John McCain

I don't think Paulians would support McCain

251 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:15:55pm

re: #245 Ray in TX

That was my favorite movie growing up. I loved the transformation to color when she stepped out of the house in Oz. Little things like that make a big impression on kids.

I made sure to let my daughters experience that movie at an early age, although it kind of backfired...

My kid found all the movies I loved as a child majorly lame.

252 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:16:21pm

Kanye Interrupts Obama Speech!

253 Chip Designer  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:16:22pm

re: #240 austin_blue


If this is a workable definition of human death, why can't it be a workable definition of human life? No forebrain, no human.

There appears to be a measurable point when the brain first switches on. A "brain birth" as contrasted to brain death. I think it is at about 26 weeks.

254 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:16:49pm

re: #252 BigPapa

[Video]Kanye Interrupts Obama Speech!

Jackass.

255 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:17:16pm

re: #253 Chip Designer

There appears to be a measurable point when the brain first switches on. A "brain birth" as contrasted to brain death. I think it is at about 26 weeks.

link?

that would about the same time as viability outside the womb --no?

256 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:17:22pm

re: #233 bosforus

Wizard of Oz is on tbs if anyone's interested. Just started, too.

Last time I was channel surfing and landed on the Wizard of Oz and stayed there I ended up missing the brawl at The Palace between the Pacers and the Pistons. Ugh. And I had watched the whole game up until the commercial before that.

257 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:18:04pm

re: #251 ggt

My kid found all the movies I loved as a child majorly lame.

Hopefully your kid will grow out of enjoying Michael Bay type movies and will gain an appreciation for the classics. Maybe Nosferatu is creepy enough for him/her to enjoy.

258 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:18:05pm

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

Jackass.

How about the President make him Jackass Czar?

259 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:18:11pm

re: #208 reine.de.tout

re: #98 iceweasel

No secret, I think, that I am very pro-life, anti-abortion, whatever label anybody wants to call it -

But these Army of God people seem to have confused themselves with God.

A lot of energy these folks are spending could be put to much better use, imo, in supporting and promoting actual programs and activities that would help people in need in a way that would allow them to make a different "choice".

Just my .02.

While we disagree to some extent on this issue, I respect how you approach it. I don't think anyone, even people who think that abortion should be 100% available on demand no questions asked think that abortions are a good thing. The approach you (and others here) take of offering options and support to women in a tough situation and speaking about these women with compassion is much more Christian than yelling, screaming and murdering.

The world needs more people like you and far, far fewer members of the Army of God.

260 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:18:57pm

re: #247 Mich-again

Then again, "the code" takes care of the jerks who try to take out someone's knee or injure a QB on purpose. And the refs can always toss out a guy of the game, but that almost never happens. Its doesn't really come across as being a problem until there are offsetting penalties and it ends up being a "do-over" like in a game of kickball on the sandlot.

good point...last week Flozell Adams of the Cowboys tripped a pass rusher and he was out for the rest of the game (or more)...I thought Adams should have been ejected and cough up his game wages...and I'm a Cowboy fan

261 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:19:14pm

re: #252 BigPapa

That was pretty dang funny. Ha.

262 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:19:19pm

re: #243 Will Robinson

I'll accept your explanation, but there are several things about your account that are setting off warning signals. I suggest you go to your 'My Account' page and update your email address to a real one, because I'm adding the server you used to the registration block list.

263 Chip Designer  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:19:25pm

re: #255 ggt

link?

that would about the same time as viability outside the womb --no?

... From this it is concluded that, if the concept of brain birth is a valid one, it should be placed at 24-28 weeks' gestation. ...

[Link: www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...]

264 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:19:44pm

re: #253 Chip Designer

There appears to be a measurable point when the brain first switches on. A "brain birth" as contrasted to brain death. I think it is at about 26 weeks.

Yup. And this is within about three weeks (about 23 weeks) of viability outside the womb. So if a 22-week fetus is not viable outside the womb, and not functionally human, how can an abortion be the murder of a human?

It's a puzzlement.

265 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:19:58pm

I can't recall the book and verse- perhaps someone here can help me. There is a line in the New Testament about people saying to Jesus they taught in his name and he rejects them because they didn't know him.

That's what I think is going on with these people. They show weak faith if they feel the need to play God themselves.

266 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:20:34pm

re: #243 Will Robinson

Welcome to LGF. ;)

267 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:20:49pm

re: #265 Sharmuta

That was the Gospel today. It was in Mark.

268 wee fury  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:20:58pm

re: #265 Sharmuta

Good post.

269 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:21:39pm

re: #263 Chip Designer

... From this it is concluded that, if the concept of brain birth is a valid one, it should be placed at 24-28 weeks' gestation. ...

[Link: www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...]

very interesting.

Thanks for the link!

270 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:21:44pm

Kurt Warner just got run back around 20 yards before being sacked. Ouch. The Cardinals just got served.

271 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:21:57pm

re: #240 austin_blue

In the late 1967, the first heart transplant took place in South Africa. As the procedure was refined, it became apparent that it could extend human life for years if not decades. Later on, it became clear that it *could* extend life for decades.

There is a good book (available in paperback) named Every Second Counts about the race to transplant the first human heart. Two American teams were probably more prepared than the South African group, but Dr. Barnard got it done first because the legal definition of death was less stringent in South Africa than it was here.

It is a great book, very understandable to even those of us with no medical training. I would recommend it.

272 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:22:35pm

re: #251 ggt

My kid found all the movies I loved as a child majorly lame.

Well, my oldest fell in love with The Wizard of Oz. Let me paint the picture...

Every morning, I get up and get ready for work. As I get ready, my 1st-grade daughter stumbles in, bleary-eyed, and mumbles "I wanna watch Wizard of Oz". It was the first thing out of her month, every morning, for what seemed like two months straight.

So naturally, I would sit with her and watch the first 30 minutes or so of the movie until I HAD to leave for work. Every scene, every line, every facial expression of the first third of the movie was burned into my brain by the time my daughter finally got tired of it.

Fortunately, it was a movie I loved so I managed to keep my sanity.

273 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:22:44pm

re: #234 Charles

Really? You can't use a Road Runner email address at work? But an obscure free email service is fine?

Road Runner has web mail for travelling; but you know that...

274 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:23:17pm

re: #272 Ray in TX

Well, my oldest fell in love with The Wizard of Oz. Let me paint the picture...

Every morning, I get up and get ready for work. As I get ready, my 1st-grade daughter stumbles in, bleary-eyed, and mumbles "I wanna watch Wizard of Oz". It was the first thing out of her month, every morning, for what seemed like two months straight.

So naturally, I would sit with her and watch the first 30 minutes or so of the movie until I HAD to leave for work. Every scene, every line, every facial expression of the first third of the movie was burned into my brain by the time my daughter finally got tired of it.

Fortunately, it was a movie I loved so I managed to keep my sanity.

Well, you have good memories anyway!

275 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:23:20pm

re: #273 Naso Tang

Road Runner has web mail for travelling; but you know that...

Yes, I do know that. That's one of the warning signals I'm talking about.

276 Bagua  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:23:35pm

re: #266 bosforus

Welcome to LGF. ;)

277 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:24:16pm

re: #257 bosforus

Hopefully your kid will grow out of enjoying Michael Bay type movies and will gain an appreciation for the classics. Maybe Nosferatu is creepy enough for him/her to enjoy.

Great, great vampire movie! I prefer the German version with subtitles for the additional creepiness factor. :)

278 Chip Designer  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:24:26pm

re: #264 austin_blue

Yup. And this is within about three weeks (about 23 weeks) of viability outside the womb. So if a 22-week fetus is not viable outside the womb, and not functionally human, how can an abortion be the murder of a human?

It's a puzzlement.

Actually, it is a matter of faith. I am very comfortable with brain activity being the defining criteria for human rights. On the other hand, if you believe that God adds a soul to the embryo at conception, then that is a valid argument.

It is odd that you rarely hear mentioned from those who equate conception with human is that those women who use IUDs for birth control may be having up to 12 abortions a year.

279 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:24:45pm

re: #240 austin_blue

Reine:

I've been trying to find, over several years, if there can be some common ground between the pro-life and pro-choice contingents. Then I found this:

In the late 1967, the first heart transplant took place in South Africa. As the procedure was refined, it became apparent that it could extend human life for years if not decades. Later on, it became clear that it *could* extend life for decades.

But it begged the question, because it needed live donors: What is the definition of human death while a heart is still beating? Medical philosophers and doctors discussed the issue and came up with a workable definition- no higher cerebral function, no human life.

If this is a workable definition of human death, why can't it be a workable definition of human life? No forebrain, no human.

AustinBlue - for me, the definition of human life is going to be defined by my faith (Catholic) as being the moment of conception. For me, there is no compromise on that.

Whether abortion is legal or not, there will be those who will seek to have that procedure. My personal preference is that they would not; but I have no control over what other people decide to do. And I prefer that they stay safe, even if they make what I think is a horrible decision, rather than have them undergo the dangers of an underground medical procedure.

So - I have decided the best I can do - is focus MY energies and support on programs, activities and actions that will help people to be able to afford to make the choice of life. And that includes, where appropriate, being witness and speaking about my own family's experience with unintended pregnancy, and the help that was available, and the joy as well as the pain incurred.

I've talked about it before here and don't care to right now. But for me, basically, there is no real "common ground", other than I wish everyone to have safe and appropriate medical care, regardless of their personal decision.

280 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:25:19pm

re: #263 Chip Designer

... From this it is concluded that, if the concept of brain birth is a valid one, it should be placed at 24-28 weeks' gestation. ...

[Link: www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...]

Thanks for that article. Very interesting stuff.

281 pianobuff  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:26:12pm

re: #265 Sharmuta

I can't recall the book and verse- perhaps someone here can help me. There is a line in the New Testament about people saying to Jesus they taught in his name and he rejects them because they didn't know him.

That's what I think is going on with these people. They show weak faith if they feel the need to play God themselves.

Matthew 7:22-23

Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles? "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

282 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:26:21pm

re: #267 Mich-again

Actually, I think you meant Matthew 12:30

He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

which is quite a bit different than the verse I first referred to Mark 9:40

for whoever is not against us is for us.

GWB used the former.

283 Achilles Tang  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:26:48pm

Goodnight everyone.

284 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:26:54pm

re: #279 reine.de.tout

Lovely.

I firmly believe that my penis kind of keeps me disqualified from the conversation.

285 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:27:20pm

re: #284 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Mebbe I should have said "special purpose".

286 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:27:24pm

re: #265 Sharmuta

I can't recall the book and verse- perhaps someone here can help me. There is a line in the New Testament about people saying to Jesus they taught in his name and he rejects them because they didn't know him.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23

I think that is the scripture you are thinking about.

287 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:28:29pm

re: #284 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Lovely.

I firmly believe that my penis kind of keeps me disqualified from the conversation.

let go of it, it may be easier to type

288 Liberally Conservative  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:28:47pm

re: #265 Sharmuta

I can't recall the book and verse- perhaps someone here can help me. There is a line in the New Testament about people saying to Jesus they taught in his name and he rejects them because they didn't know him.

That's what I think is going on with these people. They show weak faith if they feel the need to play God themselves.

Matthew 25 (not 7, that's a different verse, but similar meaning)

Link, look at Sheep and the Goats

I also really like this passage, by the by.

289 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:28:56pm

re: #284 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Lovely.

I firmly believe that my penis kind of keeps me disqualified from the conversation.

Wise belief!

290 Racer X  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:29:00pm

City Sounds

Cool.

291 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:29:06pm

re: #262 Charles

I'll accept your explanation, but there are several things about your account that are setting off warning signals. I suggest you go to your 'My Account' page and update your email address to a real one, because I'm adding the server you used to the registration block list.

Just from my very brief experience here I can tell that this blog must get bombarded with trolls. Everyone seems to be on constant alert for sock puppets. Now I understand why registration is usually closed...

292 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:29:07pm

re: #281 pianobuff

Matthew 7:22-23

Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles? "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Nice going, PB! Upding!

293 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:29:16pm

re: #287 albusteve

That was flippin' funny!

294 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:29:29pm

re: #208 reine.de.tout

re: #98 iceweasel

No secret, I think, that I am very pro-life, anti-abortion, whatever label anybody wants to call it -

But these Army of God people seem to have confused themselves with God.

A lot of energy these folks are spending could be put to much better use, imo, in supporting and promoting actual programs and activities that would help people in need in a way that would allow them to make a different "choice".

Just my .02.

Oh reine, I totally agree with you. These people aren't prolife at all. they're prodeath. I don't even put them in the same category as the good and decent people who want there to be fewer abortions-- by lessening the need for abortion in the first place, for one, and encouraging adoption on the other,-- but have no interest in taking away choice.

IMO, people like you and me and sharm all want the same thing and have many of the same primary objectives and motives, even tho we'd describe ourselves differently. We all care about women, about children, and want to maximize the range of options and choices-- not take any away.

This is one of the areas where the current partisan and ideological divide in this country shows up so clearly as flawed-- because on the abortion issue, the pro-choice and genuinely pro-life people have so many issues they could work together on, but we look at each other with hostility, in most cases.

295 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:29:42pm

re: #275 Charles

Yes, I do know that. That's one of the warning signals I'm talking about.

To be fair, I also have a couple of super disposable emails from obscure servers because a lot of network admins block the big ones (gmail, aol, yahoo, etc) but can't list by name every teeny-tiny internet free mail host.

Of course, I didn't register here with any of those, but it is a legitimate explanation of getting around a poorly-configured firewall setup. The part about traveling was a little spurious, but I understand the work thing.

296 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:30:03pm

re: #291 Ray in TX

Just from my very brief experience here I can tell that this blog must get bombarded with trolls. Everyone seems to be on constant alert for sock puppets. Now I understand why registration is usually closed...

you never lurked before you registered?

297 bosforus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:30:27pm

re: #277 Ray in TX

I really enjoy that movie because obviously Nosferatu is creepy but also as the main character becomes a vampire he becomes extremely creepy as well.

The classic moments:


Image: NosferatuShadow.jpg
298 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:30:56pm

re: #267 Mich-again

re: #281 pianobuff

re: #282 Mich-again

re: #286 SteveC

THANK YOU!

I think of that often- how shocked some people will be when Jesus rejects them. Could be a big group.

299 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:31:24pm

re: #291 Ray in TX

Just from my very brief experience here I can tell that this blog must get bombarded with trolls. Everyone seems to be on constant alert for sock puppets. Now I understand why registration is usually closed...

You have no idea.

300 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:31:27pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

re: #281 pianobuff

re: #282 Mich-again

re: #286 SteveC

THANK YOU!

I think of that often- how shocked some people will be when Jesus rejects them. Could be a big group.

All are invited, few are chosen.

301 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:32:11pm

re: #291 Ray in TX

Just from my very brief experience here I can tell that this blog must get bombarded with trolls. Everyone seems to be on constant alert for sock puppets. Now I understand why registration is usually closed...

Well, at the moment there are special issues involving a recent swarm of them and much hostility from the wingnut-sphere. It will calm down eventually.

302 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:32:52pm

re: #301 iceweasel

Well, at the moment there are special issues involving a recent swarm of them and much hostility from the wingnut-sphere. It will calm down eventually.

I've calmed down.

303 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:33:19pm

re: #284 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Lovely.

I firmly believe that my penis kind of keeps me disqualified from the conversation.

eh?

304 Racer X  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:33:22pm

Incredibox

This one is fun!

305 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:33:42pm

re: #301 iceweasel

Well, at the moment there are special issues involving a recent swarm of them and much hostility from the wingnut-sphere. It will calm down eventually.

"Let it roar, let it rage, we shall come through"

- Winston Spencer Churchill

306 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:34:24pm

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

I've calmed down.

In a pigs eye :)

307 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:34:37pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

The two verses I posted in 282 are an interesting pair.

In the first, the lesson is, if you they are not with me they are against me.

In the second, if they are not against me, they are for me.

308 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:34:48pm

re: #299 Charles

You have no idea.

Well, I'm fully aware that you've become a pariah among the other right-wing blogs as they've become more extreme. I just didn't realize that there was such a concerted effort to disrupt your blog.

It's like you skip Gandhi's "ignore you" and "laugh at you" phases and gone straight to "fight you". Which may not be that bad if it gets you to "win" that much more quickly.

309 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:35:00pm

re: #296 albusteve

you never lurked before you registered?

...the plot thickens...

310 TheRealThing  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:35:30pm

New to this on-line posting. Have not much time, our work now a lot of foreclosure work and work out deals between lenders and borrowers.
On this topic the Texas county the law firm has most of its work in has lots of very conservative home schoolers and the like. Me I went independent just out of college and am not into the battle day to day but am starting to see things get all about yelling.

Have legal assistants who are demanding I get more into all this. They told me this was a good place to use back some time ago, just now took the time. Hope I am able to contribute and at the same time understand more.

311 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:35:43pm

re: #278 Chip Designer

Actually, it is a matter of faith. I am very comfortable with brain activity being the defining criteria for human rights. On the other hand, if you believe that God adds a soul to the embryo at conception, then that is a valid argument.

It is odd that you rarely hear mentioned from those who equate conception with human is that those women who use IUDs for birth control may be having up to 12 abortions a year.

I know Catholic women who will use birth control (such as the pill), who would NEVER use an IUD for that reason.

312 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:36:20pm

re: #279 reine.de.tout

Well-reasoned, fitting with factual reality...
and very much in accord with my stand, Ma'am...

313 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:36:20pm

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

...the plot thickens...

Queue the mysterious music...

314 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:36:23pm

The reason that the letters were written is that the radical antiabortionists wish to define support for clinic bombings and doctor-murder as the one and only acceptable Christian position, and cannot bear when other people who self-identify as Christians, particularly ministers, church congregations or religious denominations, take issue with them on this point.

315 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:36:52pm

re: #296 albusteve

you never lurked before you registered?

I lurked enough to develop an opinion on the site, but it's not the same if you can't contribute. I'd rather not be a Peeping Tom and just wait until I got lucky with the "Register" button.

316 jaunte  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:37:24pm

re: #310 TheRealThing

Texas Freedom Network is a good resource, too.
[Link: www.tfn.org...]

317 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:37:49pm

We have a Gentleman in our church who teaches a lesson he calls "God has a sense of humor" at least once a year. It's aimed at the younger generation to get them interested, and so they don't think the Word is dry and useless.

His example of a Biblical Butt-kicking: (Good News for Modern Man version):

Some Jews who traveled around and drove out evil spirits also tried to use the name of the Lord Jesus to do this. They said to the evil spirits, "I command you in the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches." Seven brothers, who were the sons of a Jewish High Priest named Sceva, were doing this. But the evil spirit said to them, "I know Jesus, and I know about Paul; but you---who are you?" The man who had the evil spirit in him attacked them with such violence that he overpowered them all. They ran away from his house, wounded and with their clothes torn off! -- Act 19:13-16

318 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:38:06pm

re: #303 reine.de.tout

Meaning that I will never have to make such a choice. Therefore, I have disqualified myself from the debate.

That's all. Toots? Yours is a beautiful sentiment. I would feel more qualified to speak further, if I were a woman.

I admire you greatly.

319 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:38:08pm

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

...the plot thickens...

calm down...I lurked for two years or more before I got registered...I know you better than you do

320 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:38:53pm

re: #314 Salamantis

The reason that the letters were written is that the radical antiabortionists wish to define support for clinic bombings and doctor-murder as the one and only acceptable Christian position, and cannot bear when other people who self-identify as Christians, particularly ministers, church congregations or religious denominations, take issue with them on this point.

As I said, the "Army of God" has confused itself with actually being God.

321 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:38:59pm

re: #308 Ray in TX

It's like you skip Gandhi's "ignore you" and "laugh at you" phases and gone straight to "fight you". Which may not be that bad if it gets you to "win" that much more quickly.

There's much more going on than you're aware of.

322 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:39:33pm

re: #315 Ray in TX

I lurked enough to develop an opinion on the site, but it's not the same if you can't contribute. I'd rather not be a Peeping Tom and just wait until I got lucky with the "Register" button.

Charles' grief is well documented...all one needs to do is pay attention for a bit

323 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:40:03pm

re: #315 Ray in TX

but it's not the same if you can't contribute.

True. I remember the period of time I spent between discovering LGF and catching open registration, maybe a couple weeks later, back during Rathergate.

324 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:40:45pm

re: #314 Salamantis

Just so. Its the standard totalitarian position. "We are the only good there is. If you oppose us, you are not only wrong but entirely evil." No moral difference between them and the Islamists, none at all.

325 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:41:04pm

re: #314 Salamantis

The reason that the letters were written is that the radical antiabortionists wish to define support for clinic bombings and doctor-murder as the one and only acceptable Christian position, and cannot bear when other people who self-identify as Christians, particularly ministers, church congregations or religious denominations, take issue with them on this point.

Absolutely right. The word for this kind of tactic is "terrorism" -- they're letting the pastors of Tiller's church know that if they don't toe the line, they might be next.

326 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:41:06pm

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

"Tea Parties are the fringe"

327 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:42:01pm

re: #323 Mich-again

True. I remember the period of time I spent between discovering LGF and catching open registration, maybe a couple weeks later, back during Rathergate.

I must have been unbelievably lucky. I was surfing around the blogs, Found LGF thru a gun blog (I think) and thought, cool! I wanted to ask a question (I know big suprise) and registered--then posted. That was just prior to the 2004 election, IIRC.

I had NO idea what I was getting into.

:)

328 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:42:05pm

re: #324 Dark_Falcon

Just so. Its the standard totalitarian position. "We are the only good there is. If you oppose us, you are not only wrong but entirely evil." No moral difference between them and the Islamists, none at all.

That's why they're publicly condemning them; they're just 'stoning the unfaithful monkey'.

329 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:42:56pm

re: #323 Mich-again

True. I remember the period of time I spent between discovering LGF and catching open registration, maybe a couple weeks later, back during Rathergate.

lucky you...I was in rad tech school waiting,surfing for a reg...took a long time to get lucky...the last batch of the unannounced registrations...

330 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:43:13pm

re: #279 reine.de.tout

AustinBlue - for me, the definition of human life is going to be defined by my faith (Catholic) as being the moment of conception. For me, there is no compromise on that.

Whether abortion is legal or not, there will be those who will seek to have that procedure. My personal preference is that they would not; but I have no control over what other people decide to do. And I prefer that they stay safe, even if they make what I think is a horrible decision, rather than have them undergo the dangers of an underground medical procedure.

So - I have decided the best I can do - is focus MY energies and support on programs, activities and actions that will help people to be able to afford to make the choice of life. And that includes, where appropriate, being witness and speaking about my own family's experience with unintended pregnancy, and the help that was available, and the joy as well as the pain incurred.

I've talked about it before here and don't care to right now. But for me, basically, there is no real "common ground", other than I wish everyone to have safe and appropriate medical care, regardless of their personal decision.

I absolutely respect your position, even if I disagree. My family has also suffered from unintended pregnancies, and in both cases they have been disastrous, and they both resulted in live births.

I was raised RCC and left the Church when its position on birth control and abortion proved so intractable. Rape, incest, the life of the mother, the viability of the fetus, no wiggle room. Very controlling.

I, too, want to see a world where there as few abortions as possible. It is a terrible waste of potential life. But humans are idiots, and they make mistakes, and I hate to see a situation where women are forced to pay for the mistakes that they make with their male partners, who suffer little.

I also hate to see a situation where a woman discovers that her fetus has anencephaly, a neural tube defect that prevents the development of the forebrain, and be told by her Diocese that she must carry a corpse to term only to see it born alive and die within three days. Heinous.

331 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:43:43pm

re: #325 Charles

Absolutely right. The word for this kind of tactic is "terrorism" -- they're letting the pastors of Tiller's church know that if they don't toe the line, they might be next.

I would repeat what I said upthread in 13. Their tax-free status should be removed if their leader promotes crime from the pulpit. Thats just for starters.

332 TheRealThing  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:43:56pm

Well hope to get more into this. Our work goes hard next week. The first Tuesday of every month is court house door foreclosure day and we have to get all the t's crossed. After 6:30 or 7:00 Texas time will be about all the time available until after first Tuesday. Its late for a early start.
Good night, thanks for the place to talk.

333 researchok  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:43:59pm

re: #325 Charles

Absolutely right. The word for this kind of tactic is "terrorism" -- they're letting the pastors of Tiller's church know that if they don't toe the line, they might be next.

Like Al Qaeda.

334 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:44:22pm

re: #325 Charles

Absolutely right. The word for this kind of tactic is "terrorism" -- they're letting the pastors of Tiller's church know that if they don't toe the line, they might be next.

With that goes another thing we have learned about political efforts that move towards and then employ terrorism - if you don't act, they want more. If you try to appease them, they want more. When you reward them with anything resembling "progress" they want more.

Same movie - different theater.

335 fizzlogic  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:44:22pm

re: #1 Karridine

If so, that damnation comes from God, not from people...

You make a good point. Taking it a bit further, believing they speak for God is exactly what's meant by that commandment about using God's name in vain.

336 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:44:29pm

re: #323 Mich-again

True. I remember the period of time I spent between discovering LGF and catching open registration, maybe a couple weeks later, back during Rathergate.

Now those were the days! Remember the line from that movie about Johnson vs. Rather...?

"Rocky is chopping the big Russian down!"

337 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:44:37pm

re: #326 BigPapa

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

"Tea Parties are the fringe"

I'm not sure I'd quote Henry Brady. He's a Berkley Poli Sci professor. That makes him an almost certain moonbat.

338 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:45:02pm

re: #325 Charles

Absolutely right. The word for this kind of tactic is "terrorism" -- they're letting the pastors of Tiller's church know that if they don't toe the line, they might be next.

It's most certainly how the Taliban operates.

339 swamprat  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:45:24pm

re: #291 Ray in TX

Yes. A favorite tactic is to post something reprehensible, then run off to say how evil LGF is for having such nasty comments.

Gets really old.
Another one is to berate LGF for some characteristic that only exists in the minds of self appointed critics.

We are accused of being;

too religious.(...alrighty, then!)
not religious..see above
loving Bush...(they haven't read us.)
always agreeing with the host...(yeah, right!)
being only white
being only conservatives
being liberal
being racists...
being traitors to our race
Not accepting racists who might be beneficial...(?)

Yeah, people have issues with us.

340 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:46:02pm

re: #319 albusteve

calm down...I lurked for two years or more before I got registered...I know you better than you do

Let me look...

341 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:46:37pm

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

I've calmed down.

{Walter}

How are you? How are the shows?

342 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:46:46pm

re: #335 trendsurfer

You make a good point. Taking it a bit further, believing they speak for God is exactly what's meant by that commandment about using God's name in vain.

You are so right on that one. But if you google on "commandment god's name in vain" most explanations involve "don't cuss".

343 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:47:23pm

re: #340 Walter L. Newton

Let me look...

NO!...it will spoil everything!

344 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:47:31pm

re: #337 Dark_Falcon

I'm not sure I'd quote Henry Brady. He's a Berkley Poli Sci professor. That makes him an almost certain moonbat.

He may be a moonbat for sure. But that doesn't mean his statement is to be dismissed:

"I don't see where reaching out to the tea party people helps. That's the fringe of the far right," he said. "They need to reach out to the decline-to-state voters in the middle."

345 Wookieelips  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:47:44pm

re: #278 Chip Designer

Actually, it is a matter of faith. I am very comfortable with brain activity being the defining criteria for human rights. On the other hand, if you believe that God adds a soul to the embryo at conception, then that is a valid argument.

It is odd that you rarely hear mentioned from those who equate conception with human is that those women who use IUDs for birth control may be having up to 12 abortions a year.

Oops.

Not this year, though.

346 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:47:57pm

re: #323 Mich-again

True. I remember the period of time I spent between discovering LGF and catching open registration, maybe a couple weeks later, back during Rathergate.

And just for the record... I know I'm newly registered here but I have been around political blogs for a long while. I'm not a 'sock puppet' type of person. I have a "Ray in TX" account at both TheNextRight and DailyKos. I also had one at RedState long ago but was awarded a "Certification of Sanity" from them rather quickly.

Charles clearly has his shit together with the trolls simply judging by how quickly he's able to spot them. As someone who has also had to rout forum trolls, that's actually the most remarkable thing I've noticed about the process here.

ok.. afk a bit. I have to read my daughter's philosophy paper. :/

347 A Man for all Seasons  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:48:16pm

Hi Lizards! Home from the Colts party..We kicked butt.

348 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:48:25pm

re: #342 karmic_inquisitor

You are so right on that one. But if you google on "commandment god's name in vain" most explanations involve "don't cuss".

I've tried to explain this to people before (also the fact that the commandment is actually thou shalt not MURDER -- not kill) but it usually falls on dead ears... probably because I am an atheist.

349 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:48:26pm

re: #338 Salamantis

It's most certainly how the Taliban operates.

Its sort of a misguided Christian version of the Islamic Fatwa.

350 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:49:01pm

re: #341 iceweasel

{Walter}

How are you? How are the shows?

"A Picasso" Paris, 1941. Picasso has been summoned by German forces. The question which confiscated Picasso paintings are real? Is this about an honored exhibit or something more subversive? Don't miss the cat and mouse between Picasso and his beautiful interrogator.

Opening weekend was moderate, always is, we have a long run, it always picks up. Excellent show. Western regional premier.

[Link: www.minersalley.com...]

351 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:49:25pm

re: #339 swamprat

Yes. A favorite tactic is to post something reprehensible, then run off to say how evil LGF is for having such nasty comments.

Gets really old.
Another one is to berate LGF for some characteristic that only exists in the minds of self appointed critics.

We are accused of being;

too religious.(...alrighty, then!)
not religious..see above
loving Bush...(they haven't read us.)
always agreeing with the host...(yeah, right!)
being only white
being only conservatives
being liberal
being racists...
being traitors to our race
Not accepting racists who might be beneficial...(?)

Yeah, people have issues with us.

We are all thing to all people haters.

352 Mich-again  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:49:35pm

re: #346 Ray in TX

Charles clearly has his shit together with the trolls

CJ has lots of experience in the field.

353 Bagua  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:49:38pm

re: #339 swamprat

Yes. A favorite tactic is to post something reprehensible, then run off to say how evil LGF is for having such nasty comments.

Gets really old.
Another one is to berate LGF for some characteristic that only exists in the minds of self appointed critics.

We are accused of being;

too religious.(...alrighty, then!)
not religious..see above
loving Bush...(they haven't read us.)
always agreeing with the host...(yeah, right!)
being only white
being only conservatives
being liberal
being racists...
being traitors to our race
Not accepting racists who might be beneficial...(?)

Yeah, people have issues with us.

And also some things which are unfair.

/

354 Liberally Conservative  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:49:39pm

re: #335 trendsurfer

You make a good point. Taking it a bit further, believing they speak for God is exactly what's meant by that commandment about using God's name in vain.

Yeah, that and praying (which ends in "in God's name we pray, Amen) for, let's say unworthy, stuff like a sweet new car, a hot chick to have sex with, or the death of Obama and abortion providers.

355 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:49:59pm

re: #334 karmic_inquisitor

With that goes another thing we have learned about political efforts that move towards and then employ terrorism - if you don't act, they want more. If you try to appease them, they want more. When you reward them with anything resembling "progress" they want more.

Same movie - different theater.

Agreed. The only answer to terrorists is to squash them like bugs.

AoG Delenda Est.

356 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:51:32pm

re: #354 Liberally Conservative

Yeah, that and praying (which ends in "in God's name we pray, Amen) for, let's say unworthy, stuff like a sweet new car, a hot chick to have sex with, or the death of Obama and abortion providers.

Seems to me that praying for a hot chick to have sex with is the main reason for prayer... even if you are an atheist.

357 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:52:12pm

re: #344 BigPapa

He may be a moonbat for sure. But that doesn't mean his statement is to be dismissed:

"I don't see where reaching out to the tea party people helps. That's the fringe of the far right," he said. "They need to reach out to the decline-to-state voters in the middle."

Not all those at the Tea Parties are nuts. It might well be a viable strategy to see if you can weans some of those attending off the crazy and get them behind sane candidates. It's no substitute for outreach to the center, but the two tactics could work side-by-side to build a viable coalition.

358 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:53:13pm

re: #349 Mich-again

Its sort of a misguided Christian version of the Islamic Fatwa.

I remember when Dominionism was first mentioned around here with the intelligent design threads, and the extreme hyperventilations at the suggestion they were a Christian version of the taliban. We've come a long way since then.

I think it's just a universal tactic- the extremes have to marginalize the center in order to gain power, and threats and violence are their weapons.

359 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:53:25pm

re: #347 HoosierHoops

The Seahawks laid an egg against the Bears... week three and we are already going through our famous injury problems to star players... sigh...

360 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:53:43pm

re: #349 Mich-again

Its sort of a misguided Christian version of the Islamic Fatwa.

Well, what they really wanna do is to put the members of the congregation on notice that terrorism might be in the offing for their church, in the hopes that they can intimidate enough of them, especially those with children, to leave the flock and move to other, safer, less 'controversial' churches, that it has to close, so they can then try to claim that this is evidence that God frowned upon them because of their stance.

361 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:54:08pm

re: #356 Enkidu90046

Seems to me that praying for a hot chick to have sex with is the main reason for prayer... even if you are an atheist.

Hey, just as there are no atheists in foxholes, (allegedly), lots of us call out to god in the bedroom. :)
Regardless of our beliefs in a deity, that is.

362 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:54:29pm

re: #347 HoosierHoops

Hi Lizards! Home from the Colts party..We kicked butt.

35-10. Great game by the Colts and especially Peyton Manning and his receivers. I'm also looking forwards to October 25th, when Kurt Warner and the Cardinals with face Peyton's younger brother Eli and the New York Giants.

363 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:55:12pm

Why is Huckabee on the air?

364 Racer X  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:55:27pm
365 Liberally Conservative  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:55:46pm

re: #361 iceweasel

Hey, just as there are no atheists in foxholes, (allegedly), lots of us call out to god in the bedroom. :)
Regardless of our beliefs in a deity, that is.

I see what you did there!

366 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:55:48pm

re: #357 Dark_Falcon

Not all those at the Tea Parties are nuts. It might well be a viable strategy to see if you can weans some of those attending off the crazy and get them behind sane candidates. It's no substitute for outreach to the center, but the two tactics could work side-by-side to build a viable coalition.

Hmmm...just wondering, what do you think is the "center" of the Tea Party-ers?

Or am I misreading your comment? (I'm assuming I am)

367 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:55:51pm

re: #361 iceweasel

Despite having served in the USMC, I served in peace time and never heard a shot fired in anger... that said, I have it on good authority that there are plenty of atheists in foxholes...

368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:55:54pm

re: #361 iceweasel

Hey, just as there are no atheists in foxholes, (allegedly), lots of us call out to god in the bedroom. :)
Regardless of our beliefs in a deity, that is.

I also say "Holy Mackerel" and "Holy Cow"...

369 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:56:03pm

re: #360 Salamantis

Well, what they really wanna do is to put the members of the congregation on notice that terrorism might be in the offing for their church, in the hopes that they can intimidate enough of them, especially those with children, to leave the flock and move to other, safer, less 'controversial' churches, that it has to close, so they can then try to claim that this is evidence that God frowned upon them because of their stance.

This would also, of course, contribute to intimidating other congregations away from doing the same.

370 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:57:07pm

re: #359 Enkidu90046

The Seahawks laid an egg against the Bears... week three and we are already going through our famous injury problems to star players... sigh...

The Bears offense really came through in the clutch. As always Devin Hester proved himself a key player with his catch of Jay Cutler's TD pass to give the Bears the lead. The Seahawk's played well, but the Bears were better. Go Bears!

371 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:57:25pm

re: #368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I also say "Holy Mackerel" and "Holy Cow"...

Stop it, your digging yourself deeper in a hole.

372 Killgore Trout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:57:54pm

Nothing is Sacred

Nothing is sacred in Zen: it is a central theme, an essential concept in Zen thought. Yet it is not a concept, for there is no conceptualization in true Zen; and there is no Zen thought, for there is no thought in true Zen. Nothing is, rather, something that is experienced and not merely conceptualized. Yet nothing is no "thing" as all, for there is no "thing" to be experienced in Zen: the experienced and the experiencer and the experiencing are all one and the same. Sunyata, emptiness, nothingness is the heart of Zen.

373 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:58:59pm

re: #363 ggt

Why is Huckabee on the air?

Because fox news is a moby network.

374 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:59:04pm

re: #366 austin_blue

Hmmm...just wondering, what do you think is the "center" of the Tea Party-ers?

Or am I misreading your comment? (I'm assuming I am)

Slight misread. I meant that you outreach to centrists but also see if you can pull in the sane Tea Partiers. You try to bring the Sane Right and the Center together as a coalition. I think that a viable strategy.

375 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:59:09pm

re: #368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I also say "Holy Mackerel" and "Holy Cow"...

I once dated a chick who, when the moment arrived, screamed "Oh, shit!"

/I shit you not.

376 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:59:51pm

re: #370 Dark_Falcon

Of course they were better... Seneca Wallace blows as a backup QB... plus we were missing all pro Walter Jones on the line and Lofa Tatupu at MLB... I was actually shocked the game was as close as it was (and the Bears still needed a bullshit reversal on a fumble call to win -- hell, even my friend the Bears fan told me that the Bears got lucky on that one since he thought it was a fumble too... but the Seahawks bad luck with officiating continues...)

377 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 8:59:52pm

re: #363 ggt

Why is Huckabee on the air?

ratings,$$$

378 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:00:05pm

re: #365 Liberally Conservative

I see what you did there!

in bed?

379 avanti  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:00:19pm

re: #365 Liberally Conservative

re: #361 iceweasel

Hey, just as there are no atheists in foxholes, (allegedly), lots of us call out to god in the bedroom. :)
Regardless of our beliefs in a deity, that is.

I have the same problem when I do well at the casino. I tend to want to thank whatever deity make me win. My friend claims I'm a old soul and had a bad previous life.:) She's big on Karma and the more time I spend in the Asian poker room, the more I wonder if she's right.

380 Henchman Ghazi-808  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:00:50pm

re: #375 Salamantis

I once dated a chick who, when the moment arrived, screamed "Oh, shit!"

/I shit you not.

No shit?

381 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:01:21pm

re: #361 iceweasel

Hey, just as there are no atheists in foxholes, (allegedly), lots of us call out to god in the bedroom. :)
Regardless of our beliefs in a deity, that is.

Show Stoppers:

"Is that it?"

"Is it in?"

"That's not what you think it is."

"Next!"

382 Racer X  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:02:06pm

Stormtroopers' 9/11

Conspiracy!
Troofers!

ROFLMAO!

383 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:02:06pm

re: #374 Dark_Falcon

Slight misread. I meant that you outreach to centrists but also see if you can pull in the sane Tea Partiers. You try to bring the Sane Right and the Center together as a coalition. I think that a viable strategy.

I hope so. I want see a viable Republican Party. The D's need it. The present chaos is not viable.

384 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:02:10pm

re: #381 SteveC

Here's the ultimate...

"how cute... it looks like a penis, only smaller!"

385 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:02:24pm

re: #375 Salamantis

I once dated a chick who, when the moment arrived, screamed "Oh, shit!"

COWABUNGA!

386 bratwurst  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:02:30pm

re: #363 ggt

Why is Huckabee on the air?

The man can RHYME.

387 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:02:55pm

re: #386 bratwurst

The man can RHYME.

ah!

388 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:03:05pm

bbiab, laundry calls.

389 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:03:41pm

re: #380 BigPapa

No shit?

Then there was the lady who would yell "Oh, fuck!"

The first time she did that, I almost messed up and said, "But I already am; don't you know?" before I realized the cause...;~)

390 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:04:28pm

re: #376 Enkidu90046

Of course they were better... Seneca Wallace blows as a backup QB... plus we were missing all pro Walter Jones on the line and Lofa Tatupu at MLB... I was actually shocked the game was as close as it was (and the Bears still needed a bullshit reversal on a fumble call to win -- hell, even my friend the Bears fan told me that the Bears got lucky on that one since he thought it was a fumble too... but the Seahawks bad luck with officiating continues...)

Well to be fair, the Bears defense continues to suffer from the loss of Brian Urlacher. Thankfully, our offense is much better with Cutler as QB. Still, I hope Hasselback is able to return soon. It was also somewhat nice to note that after 18 straight losses, the Detroit Lions finally won a game today against the Washington Redskins. It won't be two in a row though, because the Bears will demolish the Loins at Soldier Field next week.

391 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:04:51pm

Saturday morning I got up early, quietly dressed, made my lunch, grabbed the dog, and slipped quietly into the garage. I hooked up the boat up to the truck, and proceeded to back out into a torrential downpour. The wind was blowing 50 mph, so I pulled back into the garage, turned on the radio, and discovered that the weather would be bad all day.

I went back into the house, quietly undressed, and slipped back into bed. I cuddled up to my wife's back, now with a different anticipation, and whispered, "The weather out there is terrible."

My loving wife of 10 years replied, "Can you believe my stupid husband is out fishing in that?"

And that's how the fight started...

392 wee fury  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:05:02pm

Was listening to Vikings & SF game on radio (while watching Packer game). The radio announcer screamed, "The Vikings need to hold their water!" He repeated it again and again.
This is a weird visual.

393 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:05:30pm

re: #391 SteveC

Saturday morning I got up early, quietly dressed, made my lunch, grabbed the dog, and slipped quietly into the garage. I hooked up the boat up to the truck, and proceeded to back out into a torrential downpour. The wind was blowing 50 mph, so I pulled back into the garage, turned on the radio, and discovered that the weather would be bad all day.

I went back into the house, quietly undressed, and slipped back into bed. I cuddled up to my wife's back, now with a different anticipation, and whispered, "The weather out there is terrible."

My loving wife of 10 years replied, "Can you believe my stupid husband is out fishing in that?"

And that's how the fight started...

What happened to the dog?

394 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:06:08pm

re: #390 Dark_Falcon

In other NFL news... Jamarcus Russel continues to prove that he has no business playing in the NFL. Every single BACKUP in the NFL (including the Raiders' backup) is better than him.

395 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:06:09pm

re: #393 Walter L. Newton

What happened to the dog?

Fleas!

396 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:06:29pm

re: #393 Walter L. Newton

What happened to the dog?

My guess is joint custody.

397 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:06:44pm

re: #383 austin_blue

I hope so. I want see a viable Republican Party. The D's need it. The present chaos is not viable.

Quite Concur. Ultimately America needs two parties, simply to keep those parties honest.

398 Pietr  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:06:55pm

re: #390 Dark_Falcon

Well to be fair, the Bears defense continues to suffer from the loss of Brian Urlacher. Thankfully, our offense is much better with Cutler as QB. Still, I hope Hasselback is able to return soon. It was also somewhat nice to note that after 18 straight losses, the Detroit Lions finally won a game today against the Washington Redskins. It won't be two in a row though, because the Bears will demolish the Loins at Soldier Field next week.

Demolishing their loins should make Detroit pretty easy to beat, Heh Heh.

399 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:07:38pm

quick, what does the this symbol mean? I don't know what it is called, so I can't google it and show you. It's a triangle with an upside down cross in it descending from the apex.

400 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:07:45pm

re: #394 Enkidu90046

In other NFL news... Jamarcus Russel continues to prove that he has no business playing in the NFL. Every single BACKUP in the NFL (including the Raiders' backup) is better than him.

What team does he play for?

401 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:08:04pm

re: #398 Pietr

Demolishing their loins should make Detroit pretty easy to beat, Heh Heh.

Rah Rah Ree!
Kick 'em in the knee!

Rah Rah Rass!
Kick 'em in the -

402 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:08:20pm

re: #390 Dark_Falcon

Well to be fair, the Bears defense continues to suffer from the loss of Brian Urlacher. Thankfully, our offense is much better with Cutler as QB. Still, I hope Hasselback is able to return soon. It was also somewhat nice to note that after 18 straight losses, the Detroit Lions finally won a game today against the Washington Redskins. It won't be two in a row though, because the Bears will demolish the Lions at Soldier Field next week.

PIMF

403 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:08:23pm

re: #400 Dark_Falcon

The Raiders. He is HORRIBLE.

404 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:09:10pm

re: #389 Salamantis

Then there was the lady who would yell "Oh, fuck!"

The first time she did that, I almost messed up and said, "But I already am; don't you know?" before I realized the cause...;~)

In a similar vein; I've been with a few women who, in the midst of, ah, bein' intamit (Homer Simpson spelling), would say something like "talk dirty to me".

I always had to suppress the urge to giggle.

405 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:09:26pm

I took my wife to a restaurant. The waiter, for some reason, took my order first.

"I'll have the strip steak, medium rare, please."
"Aren't you worried about the mad cow?" The waiter asked.
"Nah, she can order for herself."

And then the fight started...

406 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:09:41pm

re: #396 Salamantis

My guess is joint custody.

Ruh-roh...

407 bratwurst  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:10:01pm

re: #383 austin_blue

I hope so. I want see a viable Republican Party. The D's need it. The present chaos is not viable.

I am a leftist and could not agree more.

408 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:10:05pm

re: #399 ggt

quick, what does the this symbol mean? I don't know what it is called, so I can't google it and show you. It's a triangle with an upside down cross in it descending from the apex.

The tattoo is of a triangle interwoven through a cross (reminiscent of the emblem of the Christian Reformed Church). At the point at the top of the triangle is the word "dianoia", which is Greek for mind. At the point at the lower right is "kardia" (heart), and at the point in the lower left is "ischus" (strength). At the center of the cross is "psuche" (soul). The reference, of course, is Mark 12:30 - "And you shall Love the Lord your God with all your heart with all you soul with all your mind and with all your strength".

409 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:10:28pm

re: #399 ggt

quick, what does the this symbol mean? I don't know what it is called, so I can't google it and show you. It's a triangle with an upside down cross in it descending from the apex.

Something about opening the Stargate?

/no idea

410 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:10:41pm

re: #403 Enkidu90046

The Raiders. He is HORRIBLE.

Why do the Raiders not bench him?

411 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:11:10pm

re: #410 Dark_Falcon

Two words... Al Davis

412 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:11:21pm

re: #408 Walter L. Newton

The tattoo is of a triangle interwoven through a cross (reminiscent of the emblem of the Christian Reformed Church). At the point at the top of the triangle is the word "dianoia", which is Greek for mind. At the point at the lower right is "kardia" (heart), and at the point in the lower left is "ischus" (strength). At the center of the cross is "psuche" (soul). The reference, of course, is Mark 12:30 - "And you shall Love the Lord your God with all your heart with all you soul with all your mind and with all your strength".

it's not a tattoo and it's not interwoven. no letters. I saw it embroidered on a baseball ap.

413 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:11:45pm

re: #403 Enkidu90046

The Raiders. He is HORRIBLE.

Bring back George Blanda!

414 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:11:52pm

re: #412 ggt

it's not a tattoo and it's not interwoven. no letters. I saw it embroidered on a baseball ap.

We're sending baseball teams Offworld?

415 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:11:57pm

re: #411 Enkidu90046

Two words... Al Davis

Please explain.

416 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:12:16pm

re: #414 Occasional Reader

We're sending baseball teams Offworld?

I'm wondering.

417 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:12:23pm

re: #412 ggt

it's not a tattoo and it's not interwoven. no letters. I saw it embroidered on a baseball ap.

Does it look like this?

Image: CRC%20Logo%20only%20(rgb%20color).gif

418 Chip Designer  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:12:46pm

re: #412 ggt

Alcoholic Anonymous Cross?

Image: kennedy_alanoncross-lg.jpg

419 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:12:56pm

re: #383 austin_blue

I hope so. I want see a viable Republican Party. The D's need it. The present chaos is not viable.

I'm not sure what 'viable' means but I think it is shortsighted to think the GOP is washed up and cannot win elections regardless of the lunatic factions...at this point in time the donks are easy pickins and who's to say the right won't gell into a voting block to defeat them next year

420 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:13:04pm

re: #416 ggt

I'm wondering.

I wonder if the Wraith have made it to the playoffs.

421 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:13:06pm

re: #103 jaunte

I wonder how long they will make themselves slaves to this pointless activity.

They are collectively constructing an alternative reality over there - a fantasy world in which they were all beaten up by a handful of stupid weaklings (note that just because a statement is massively oxymoronic that doesn't make it wrong - to them). Also, they miss us so badly that they have to construct effigies of us which they then take to be real, like some psychopath with a girlfriend made out of rags. (This is despite their claim to frown on nic-jacking)

These are people who do not fact check anything - there is in fact a total absence of anything resembling it. They are allergic to facts. The results are disturbing. For example - one of them will make a stupid comment -some lazy drunken slur that is obviously straight from the persons ass. A little later someone else there will say "It's been confirmed! Someone here whose authority I consider to be sacrosanct has said blah blah" They are prepared to say anything that pops into their heads now, no matter how obviously shite, because they know it isn't going to be challenged by anyone. That is what is special about their site. That is the real meaning of their slogan 'we welcome all views'. They have a pact to accept everything that they say to each other as fact as long as it is in some way anti-LGF. It is the ultimate echo chamber, and the ultimate fact free zone.

422 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:13:15pm

re: #417 Walter L. Newton

Does it look like this?

[Link: www.cascadecrc.org...]

no, the cross in upside down and does not exceed the triangle.

423 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:13:32pm

re: #420 Occasional Reader

I wonder if the Wraith have made it to the playoffs.

Wraith of god?

424 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:13:34pm

re: #418 Chip Designer

Alcoholic Anonymous Cross?

[Link: milestonecoins.com...]

nope

425 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:13:59pm

re: #383 austin_blue

I hope so. I want see a viable Republican Party. The D's need it. The present chaos is not viable.

The GOP is not going to return to viability by building off of the Tea Partiers. They have to first reclaim the middle that they lost during the Bush administration.

If they start with the Tea Partiers, the middle is going to conclude that they are still appealing to racists and extremists and will stay away.

You know, I was a lifelong Republican until 2003. I voted for BOB FREAKING DOLE in 1996. I owned the VoteMcCain.com domain at one point. But right now, the demographic that the GOP is catering to absolutely hates people like me. Why should I even consider going back and subjecting myself to abuse for nothing but political scraps?

At least moderates have a voice in the current incarnation of the Democratic Party.

426 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:14:29pm

bbiab, again.

427 SteveC  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:15:28pm

re: #420 Occasional Reader

I wonder if the Wraith have made it to the playoffs.

Yep. But they are called the Yankees in this timeline.

428 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:15:43pm

re: #426 ggt

bbiab, again.

This...

Image: 402334929_e19029959f_m.jpg

429 Karridine  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:15:51pm

re: #401 SteveC

Rah Rah Ree!
Kick 'em in the knee!

Rah Rah Rass!
Kick 'em in the -

OTHER knee!

:D

430 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:15:56pm

re: #415 Dark_Falcon

Please explain.

Al Davis is the real head coach and GM of that team, and he has gone off the deep end... When he decides he likes a player (and he decided he wanted Jamarcus Russel) he sticks with them pretty much no matter what and no matter what else anyone says. The Raiders overpay for low talent players like Russel (and others) because of Al Davis. Al Davis loves QBs with huge arms, regardless of whether they can actually play the position of QB (which Russel clearly is unable to do at the NFL level). Jamarcus Russel is a $50m bust. He may have been good at LSU, but he has not been able to transition to the pro game. His throws are actually embarrassing to watch. He has poor decision making and poor accuracy.

431 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:16:02pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

re: #281 pianobuff

re: #282 Mich-again

re: #286 SteveC

THANK YOU!

I think of that often- how shocked some people will be when Jesus rejects them. Could be a big group.

This is part of the reason that I really hope the rapture happens some day. I figure either they're all going to be very surprised at who Jesus takes home with Him or at the very least, they'll all be gone and the rest of us can get on with talking about the big issues like grownups (at least most of us could, anyway). Either way, I win.

432 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:16:03pm

re: #423 Walter L. Newton

Wraith of god?

Or Bonnie Wraith, the phantasmal blues singer.

433 Racer X  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:16:55pm

re: #407 bratwurst

I am a leftist and could not agree more.

May I ask - what is your definition of leftist?

434 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:17:12pm

re: #419 albusteve

I'm not sure what 'viable' means but I think it is shortsighted to think the GOP is washed up and cannot win elections regardless of the lunatic factions...at this point in time the donks are easy pickins and who's to say the right won't gell into a voting block to defeat them next year

The independents are looking at the chaos and moving even farther to the D's.

As a Democrat, I am pleased by this, but as a member of the polity, I am disturbed that the crazies are driving Republican policy. The elected R's are being marginalized by the perceived rank and file.

435 Pietr  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:18:19pm

re: #432 Occasional Reader

Or Bonnie Wraith, the phantasmal blues singer.

Sounds like it's a Stargate SG-1 wraith, lol.

436 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:18:45pm

re: #430 Enkidu90046

Al Davis is the real head coach and GM of that team, and he has gone off the deep end... When he decides he likes a player (and he decided he wanted Jamarcus Russel) he sticks with them pretty much no matter what and no matter what else anyone says. The Raiders overpay for low talent players like Russel (and others) because of Al Davis. Al Davis loves QBs with huge arms, regardless of whether they can actually play the position of QB (which Russel clearly is unable to do at the NFL level). Jamarcus Russel is a $50m bust. He may have been good at LSU, but he has not been able to transition to the pro game. His throws are actually embarrassing to watch. He has poor decision making and poor accuracy.

So Russel is a even worse version of Rex Grossman and Davis is the Bear's front office?

437 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:19:33pm

LGF stalker sites are these people's version of an internet blog RealDoll. They can do anything they want with it, however disgusting it might be, while cluelessly bitching and moaning that the actual article is unfair not to have anything to do with shining, sterling examples of commenthood such as themselves.

438 albusteve  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:19:35pm

re: #434 austin_blue

The independents are looking at the chaos and moving even farther to the D's.

As a Democrat, I am pleased by this, but as a member of the polity, I am disturbed that the crazies are driving Republican policy. The elected R's are being marginalized by the perceived rank and file.

I'm not happy with it either but they still vote...beware what will become of us if the nirthers and Paulians take the WH...that's my question and my point

439 Occasional Reader  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:20:19pm

Good night.

440 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:20:21pm

The Jets looked GOOD today... Mark Sanchez is the real deal... given Hasselback's injury (following a year where he was also injured) I am not beginning to think the Seahawks blew it when they passed on Sanchez in the draft. Although, I did like what I saw from our 6th round QB pick, Teel, in the preseason. After all... Brady was a 6th rounder and so was Hasselback, so you never know.

441 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:21:27pm

re: #436 Dark_Falcon

Grossman is WAY better than Russel and no matter how bad the Bears front office may have blown things, they pale in comparison to the way Al Davis runs the Raiders.

442 sagehen  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:22:18pm

re: #361 iceweasel

Hey, just as there are no atheists in foxholes, (allegedly), lots of us call out to god in the bedroom. :)
Regardless of our beliefs in a deity, that is.


And all this time, I thought those shouts meant he was worshipping me.

443 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:23:36pm

re: #441 Enkidu90046

Grossman is WAY better than Russel and no matter how bad the Bears front office may have blown things, they pale in comparison to the way Al Davis runs the Raiders.

Yikes! No wonder the Raiders stink.

444 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:24:16pm

re: #323 Mich-again

True. I remember the period of time I spent between discovering LGF and catching open registration, maybe a couple weeks later, back during Rathergate.

It took me almost a year to catch a registration. I started lurking to see what I thought was intelligent and active discussion of the presidential debates from a Conservative perspective. I started to get to know some of you all through your words and found that I really, really wanted to take part in the discussion... At first I didn't want to barge in because there are a lot of points where I disagree with most of you and I didn't want to be seen as a troll or a Moby or as being disruptive... but then I started to realize that this wasn't an echo chamber and that there are posters here that do disagree and that are respected, so I took a shot and registered.

Charles has created a really special place here. There are a lot of posters who have given me food for thought, even if they haven't changed my mind.

445 Enkidu90046  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:24:35pm

re: #443 Dark_Falcon

Yikes! No wonder the Raiders stink.

I never thought I would say this, since I am a Raider hater... but I actually feel bad for Raiders fans... that team won't be good again until Al Davis dies.

446 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:25:48pm

re: #438 albusteve

I'm not happy with it either but they still vote...beware what will become of us if the nirthers and Paulians take the WH...that's my question and my point

Not gonna happen. Fringe doesn't get elected in the Nationals. Ron Paul will continue to get elected in his Congressional District, but you have to understand that Texas is a very weird place, politically. The tea bag crowd is ascendant here, as are Ron Paul and Alex Jones. Our Governor is running against a (relatively, for Texas) moderate Republican US Senator in Kay Bailey and is absolutely hooking in to the RP and AJ kook fringe. he thinks that's viable.

Strange days, indeed.

447 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:27:05pm

re: #421 Jimmah

Also, they miss us so badly that they have to construct effigies of us which they then take to be real, like some psychopath with a girlfriend made out of rags.

You know, your whole post was fing brilliant, Comrade Jimmah, but I can't stop laughing at that line! You're killing me here...updinged, favourited.

It's nothing but wank over there. Masturbatory wingnut wankage. Frantic fapfapfap all day long. I'm not merely being obscene here: it's a form of mental masturbation they're performing. Completely closed off, narcissistic, self-referring onanistic gratification. Fapfapfap!

Dedicated to the stalkers; we know you love us:

The wingularity in action:

This punchy term nicely captures the way that rightwing argumentation has become gradually detached from independently recognized reality and into a state of total unselfawareness.
Thanks to the magic of talk radio and the internet, these guys can talk to no-one but each other for extremely long stretches of time, so they have no idea how crazy they sound. The time could come in the very near future when it becomes totally impossible for any ordinary person to have any idea what they are talking about. They will be beyond ordinary logic, beyond spoof. The wingularity will have arrived.

448 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:27:56pm

Hmm, will this work?

449 lurking faith  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:29:08pm

re: #444 ~Fianna

We like the discussion. (OK, sometimes it's a brawl, but as the internet goes, it's remarkably civil.)

Hey, is your avatar one of the Oz characters? My copies are packed away, and I can't quite place which one she would be.

450 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:31:08pm

re: #438 albusteve

I'm not happy with it either but they still vote...beware what will become of us if the nirthers and Paulians take the WH...that's my question and my point

Here's what I see happening. The best-case scenario for the GOP in 2010 is that the reclaim some seats in the House and Senate because of the standard off-year dropoff by the party in power.

This emboldens the conservatives in the GOP that believe that ideological purity is the way back to power, so they produce a disastrous ticket with someone like Huckabee or Palin on it. This ticket will go down in raging flames, re-electing Obama with an even larger mandate than he had in 2008.

Actually, I like Obama so far. Granted, he has spent most of his time undoing the damage of the past 8 years so it's hard to get a feel on how he will really govern over the next few years. His Sotomayor pick tells me he's closer to center-left than some of his detractors will admit.

But if he gets a huge mandate in 2012 and we basically have one-party rule, who knows where we will end up? Maybe the GOP will finally realize they need to increase the size of the tent, not find a way to pack more voters in a smaller tent.

451 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:31:13pm

re: #447 iceweasel

What are we going to do tonight, Brain?

Same thing we do every night, Pinky. Obsessively display our butthurt.

452 Racer X  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:31:15pm

re: #448 iceweasel

[Video]

Hmm, will this work?

Works for me.

[fapfapfap]

Oh jeez - excuse me a min.

/no embedding

453 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:32:22pm

re: #428 Walter L. Newton

This...

[Link: farm1.static.flickr.com...]

If the pole were upside down, it'd be it.

454 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:32:52pm

I've always thought that Jundullah is one group, with a Balochi arm, and an educated elite, mostly in Karachi. The parts in the wikipedia about them trafficing and treating Al Qaeda are true, and they hire out to Jihadi groups for logistics on some Urban jobs. I always thought the Sauds were mostly behind their finance.

During the period of the doctor portion in wikipedia I was following it pretty close, and three different papers mentioned that they did treat AQ, and some have it that they actually treated Bin Laden.

455 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:32:59pm

re: #448 iceweasel

Glad to see you using that one, ice. I knew I suggested that to you for a good reason.

BTW, Rodan and his fellows are attacking Charles for not putting up a thread on the arrest of Roman Polanski in Switzerland. They're in full on Charles-Hate right now:

456 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:33:00pm

re: #437 Salamantis

LGF stalker sites are these people's version of an internet blog RealDoll. They can do anything they want with it, however disgusting it might be, while cluelessly bitching and moaning that the actual article is unfair not to have anything to do with shining, sterling examples of commenthood such as themselves.

OH SNAP!!!

Great one, Sal. Your comparison contains extra relevance because those "RealDolls" are gawt-damned creepy as all hell.

457 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:34:00pm

re: #451 Sharmuta

re: #455 Dark_Falcon

GMTA

458 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:34:23pm

re: #453 ggt

If the pole were upside down, it'd be it.

Ok, I can't find any picture or text description of what you are talking about, which is unusual considering the proliferation of signs and symbols used by scores of religions, occultist and such.

459 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:35:07pm

For those who were inquiring about fetal brainwaves and personhood, here is a short pdf article on the subject:

[Link: www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov...]

460 bratwurst  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:35:36pm

re: #433 Racer X

May I ask - what is your definition of leftist?

I apply the term to myself in a bit of a tongue in cheek sense...indicating that I recognize the fact I am well to the left of the majority here. Having said that, I am a supporter of the state of Israel and not a "truther", etc. I was thrilled to discover the stand against the 9/12 business that was going on here a few weeks ago and have been reading compulsively ever since. As I mentioned in introducing myself earlier, I would prefer the left of center remain in power based on consensus support for policies and not because the right has embraced elements the silent majority in this country find abhorrent.

461 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:35:55pm

re: #447 iceweasel

Fapfapfap!

Now you're killing me comrade ice-ski :) And you are right - it is epic wankage.

The wingularity of which you speak really has arrived there. What will happen? Will they go 'stupidnova' and explode in a million different directions - or is the mass of idiocy so great that they will continue to collapse beyond the event horizon and coalesce into one giant super dense wingnut?

462 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:37:42pm

The upside down cross as shown a few symbols down on this page totally inside a triangle.

It was on the baseball cap of one of the wierdos on that stupid show Red Eye. Which I really don't understand, but hubby laughs at them (not with them). I'd avoid the show all together.

463 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:39:03pm

re: #368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I also say "Holy Mackerel" and "Holy Cow"...

See you're just ecumenical. You've got Hinduism and... uh... Fishishm? Dagonism? covered there.

464 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:39:07pm

re: #451 Sharmuta

What are we going to do tonight, Brain?

Same thing we do every night, Pinky. Obsessively display our butthurt.


[Video]

They're Stalkers with no brains.
Yes, Stalkers with no brains.
Led by Rodan,
They're utterly insane!

They're nasty little trolls,
struck off of our rolls.

They're dinky,
dinky Stalkers with no brains,
brains,
brains,
brains,
brains,
brains,
brains,
brains!

FAIL

465 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:40:35pm

Math Joke:

Q: What goes into 13 three times?

466 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:41:17pm

A: Roman Polanski

467 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:41:28pm

re: #455 Dark_Falcon

Glad to see you using that one, ice. I knew I suggested that to you for a good reason.

BTW, Rodan and his fellows are attacking Charles for not putting up a thread on the arrest of Roman Polanski in Switzerland. They're in full on Charles-Hate right now:


It's a terrific vid, DF. Should have hat-tipped you on that. I'm thinking of putting it in my avatar for a while.

They really are like a psychopath with a girlfriend made of rags...and they've named it iceweasel. Fapfapfap!

Orange alert...throbbing butthurt

468 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:41:45pm

According to this site the upside down triangle is a symbol for St. Peter? Cross symbol of G-d.

469 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:42:49pm

re: #451 Sharmuta

What are we going to do tonight, Brain?

Same thing we do every night, Pinky. Obsessively display our butthurt.


LOVE the pinky and the brain ref.

470 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:43:09pm

What is upsetting the right wing blogosphere about LGF so much lately is that Charles is obdurately showing them seamy things about themselves and their allies that they would deeply prefer not to see.

Because as long as they don't see them, they can pretend that they aren't there.

Charles isn't giving them that option.

471 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:43:37pm

re: #455 Dark_Falcon

BTW, Rodan and his fellows are attacking Charles for not putting up a thread on the arrest of Roman Polanski in Switzerland. They're in full on Charles-Hate right now:

I tell you - it is Fatal Attraction all over again. Hot steamy romance ends badly - then they start boiling rabbits.

472 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:45:02pm

re: #471 karmic_inquisitor

I tell you - it is Fatal Attraction all over again. Hot steamy romance ends badly - then they start boiling rabbits.

Boiled rabbit...yummm...

473 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:45:26pm

re: #466 karmic_inquisitor

A: Roman Polanski

Really not funny, not at all.

474 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:45:33pm

re: #472 austin_blue

Boiled rabbit...yummm...

HASENPHEFFER!

475 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:45:45pm

re: #462 ggt

No offense, but there is no way I can take that site seriously. Not even remotely.

I am no theologian, in fact I am some what of a dolt when it comes to religious symbolism, but even I wouldn't mistake the Eye of Providence as the Eye of Satan.

476 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:45:54pm

re: #467 iceweasel

It's a terrific vid, DF. Should have hat-tipped you on that. I'm thinking of putting it in my avatar for a while.

They really are like a psychopath with a girlfriend made of rags...and they've named it iceweasel. Fapfapfap!

Orange alert...throbbing butthurt

They love us!

477 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:45:54pm

re: #473 Walter L. Newton

Really not funny, not at all.

Yeah.

478 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:46:34pm

re: #473 Walter L. Newton

Really not funny, not at all.

No, it isn't. Rape is never funny. Polanski needs to pay for his crime.

479 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:47:39pm

Sorry - old joke from the 70s. Agree that he is a cretin who should serve his time.

480 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:48:03pm

re: #478 Dark_Falcon

No, it isn't. Rape is never funny. Polanski needs to pay for his crime.

The bizarre thing is that the child's mother sold her to Polanski. Was she prosecuted?

481 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:48:12pm

There's a huge, verbose, exceedingly boring attack on me at Wizbang tonight, sticking up for Robert Stacy McCain, of course.

As the right wing blogosphere continues its meltdown into a reeking puddle of white supremacist slime.

482 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:49:11pm

re: #470 Salamantis

What is upsetting the right wing blogosphere about LGF so much lately is that Charles is obdurately showing them seamy things about themselves and their allies that they would deeply prefer not to see.

Because as long as they don't see them, they can pretend that they aren't there.

Charles isn't giving them that option.

That's true, but there's also a witchhunt on to declare him an apostate, because he refuses to join in on the manufactured freakout of the day. They can and do ignore the criticism they get from others...this is perceived by them as a personal betrayal from someone they mistakenly thought of as one of their own.

And frankly, I suspect many of them were always envious on a personal level of Charles' status and influence as a blogger. This is presenting those wankers with a perfect opportunity to vent the spite and jealousy they secretly harboured for years. That's the other reason why the attacks are so personal, so vitriolic, so over the top.

483 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:49:16pm
484 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:49:18pm

re: #480 austin_blue

The bizarre thing is that the child's mother sold her to Polanski. Was she prosecuted?

What?! I have never heard that before. Source?

485 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:49:56pm

re: #481 Charles

WTF is a Wizbang? Never heard of it.

486 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:50:07pm

re: #481 Charles

"Huge, verbose, exceedingly boring" and "Robert Stacy McCain" mentioned in the same sentence. Coincidence? Nah.

487 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:50:11pm

re: #485 Slumbering Behemoth

WTF is a Wizbang? Never heard of it.

Heh.

488 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:50:19pm

re: #462 ggt

The upside down cross as shown a few symbols down on this page totally inside a triangle.

It was on the baseball cap of one of the wierdos on that stupid show Red Eye. Which I really don't understand, but hubby laughs at them (not with them). I'd avoid the show all together.

Did it look like this?

Image: Berkenkruis.jpg

489 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:50:24pm

re: #481 Charles

There's a huge, verbose, exceedingly boring attack on me at Wizbang tonight, sticking up for Robert Stacy McCain, of course.

As the right wing blogosphere continues its meltdown into a reeking puddle of white supremacist slime.

Don't these people see the damage they are doing to the R's brand nationally? I mean, stupid is as stupid does, but these morons deserve a gold medal.

490 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:51:23pm

re: #482 iceweasel

Thing is that he is now the manufactured freakout of the day.

491 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:51:32pm

re: #489 austin_blue

Don't these people see the damage they are doing to the R's brand nationally? I mean, stupid is as stupid does, but these morons deserve a gold medal.

No- some of his buddies think the GOP is a "white" party.

492 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:51:47pm

re: #484 Dark_Falcon

What?! I have never heard that before. Source?

Stand by, I'll dig it up.

493 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:51:54pm

re: #482 iceweasel

Here's the song of those attacking Charles:

494 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:52:14pm

re: #485 Slumbering Behemoth

WTF is a Wizbang? Never heard of it.

Shitty right wing site. Delusions of being gawker or wonkette. Known for crap, basically.

495 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:53:04pm

re: #478 Dark_Falcon

He was 44 and had sex with a 13 year old. I don't think ANYONE here is OK with that. Never mind the alcohol, drugging, sodomy & more that was presented at trial. He copped a plea, and ditched out after the psych evaluation. It's been a long time, and the 13 year old ( Now in her 40's with kids, god bless her) wants this to END. Who can blame her? But, he has, so far, escaped justice. Well, in this world.

496 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:53:40pm

re: #449 lurking faith

We like the discussion. (OK, sometimes it's a brawl, but as the internet goes, it's remarkably civil.)

Hey, is your avatar one of the Oz characters? My copies are packed away, and I can't quite place which one she would be.

Nope. It's an Alphonse Mucha illustration. One of the 4 Seasons, I believe.

497 [deleted]  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:53:43pm
498 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:53:46pm

re: #474 ggt

HASENPHEFFER!

ok, hassenpfeffer

499 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:53:51pm

re: #491 Sharmuta

No- some of his buddies think the GOP is a "white" party.

They like the Big Tent feel of the GOP now.

A Big White Tent, made out of a sheet.

500 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:53:55pm

re: #489 austin_blue

Don't these people see the damage they are doing to the R's brand nationally? I mean, stupid is as stupid does, but these morons deserve a gold medal.

They couldn't care less about the Repub's brand or its future electoral fate so long as they can keep receiving mutually masterbatory kudos and dittos from each other within their hermetically sealed little daisy chain circle jerk.

Well, maybe they could care less, but it would be exceedingly difficult for them to do so.

501 lurking faith  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:54:12pm

re: #490 karmic_inquisitor

Thing is that he is now the manufactured freakout of the day.

Freak out!

502 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:54:17pm

re: #475 Slumbering Behemoth

No offense, but there is no way I can take that site seriously. Not even remotely.

I am no theologian, in fact I am some what of a dolt when it comes to religious symbolism, but even I wouldn't mistake the Eye of Providence as the Eye of Satan.

I'm just trying to figure out what the symbol on this guy's hate meant --at least to him.

503 Irish Rose  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:54:33pm

Good evening, lizards.
I can't sleep, I have such a heavy heart tonight.

Thought I'd come in and hang out for a while.

504 Gus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:54:39pm

re: #481 Charles

There's a huge, verbose, exceedingly boring attack on me at Wizbang tonight, sticking up for Robert Stacy McCain, of course.

As the right wing blogosphere continues its meltdown into a reeking puddle of white supremacist slime.

Jay Tea was that unscrupulous man that sneaked up on a dead thread and obsessively set about to post fraudulent rumors. That was a while back. He's so obsessed that he waited until today to add that banal rant.

505 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:54:54pm

re: #489 austin_blue

Don't these people see the damage they are doing to the R's brand nationally?

no, and that's why it's hilarious

506 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:55:40pm

re: #488 Thanos

Did it look like this?

[Link: img.photobucket.com...]

no, cross complete totally inside the triangle.

507 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:55:56pm

re: #495 Floral Giraffe

He was 44 and had sex with a 13 year old. I don't think ANYONE here is OK with that. Never mind the alcohol, drugging, sodomy & more that was presented at trial. He copped a plea, and ditched out after the psych evaluation. It's been a long time, and the 13 year old ( Now in her 40's with kids, god bless her) wants this to END. Who can blame her? But, he has, so far, escaped justice. Well, in this world.

That may now change. The question I would pose is this: If Polanski is extradited, how should he be punished?

508 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:56:28pm

re: #504 Gus 802

Jay Tea was that unscrupulous man that sneaked up on a dead thread and obsessively set about to post fraudulent rumors. That was a while back. He's so obsessed that he waited until today to add that banal rant.

He's also the one who recently posted some mental gymnastics over there defending Beck's comments that McCain would have been worse for America as President.

509 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:56:39pm

re: #505 spacejesus

You may think its funny, SJ, but I don't.

510 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:56:48pm

re: #503 Irish Rose

Good evening, lizards.
I can't sleep, I have such a heavy heart tonight.

Thought I'd come in and hang out for a while.

{{Irish Rose}}
I hope this will help.

511 lurking faith  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:57:03pm

re: #496 ~Fianna

Nope. It's an Alphonse Mucha illustration. One of the 4 Seasons, I believe.

Interesting. Spring, I expect.

But it really does look a great deal like John Neill's style.

512 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:57:05pm

re: #503 Irish Rose

Good evening, lizards.
I can't sleep, I have such a heavy heart tonight.

Thought I'd come in and hang out for a while.

{hugs} hope being here helps.

513 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:57:07pm

re: #506 ggt

no, cross complete totally inside the triangle.

Well that's a relief, at least they aren't having fans of the Flemish SS Division on Red Eye.

514 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:58:10pm

re: #511 lurking faith

Interesting. Spring, I expect.

But it really does look a great deal like John Neill's style.

I'll have to look up his work. Anything in a Nouveau style will be beautiful to look at.

515 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:58:39pm

re: #492 austin_blue

Stand by, I'll dig it up.

Sex crime conviction

In 1977, Polanski, then aged 44, became embroiled in a scandal involving 13-year-old Samantha Gailey (now known as Samantha Geimer). It ultimately led to Polanski's guilty plea to the charge of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor.[26]
According to Geimer, Polanski asked Geimer's mother if he could photograph the girl for the French edition of Vogue, which Polanski had been invited to guest-edit. Her mother allowed a private photo shoot. According to Geimer in a 2003 interview, "Everything was going fine; then he asked me to change, well, in front of him." She added, "It didn't feel right, and I didn't want to go back to the second shoot."
Geimer later agreed to a second session, which took place on March 10, 1977 at the Mulholland area home of actor Jack Nicholson in Los Angeles. "We did photos with me drinking champagne," Geimer says. "Toward the end it got a little scary, and I realized he had other intentions and I knew I was not where I should be. I just didn't quite know how to get myself out of there." She recalled in a 2003 interview that she began to feel uncomfortable after he asked her to lie down on a bed, and how she attempted to resist. "I said, ‘No, no. I don’t want to go in there. No, I don’t want to do this. No!", and then I didn’t know what else to do,” she stated.[27]
Geimer testified that Polanski performed various sexual acts on her[28][29][30] after giving her a combination of champagne and quaaludes.[31]

Her mom took the money for the second photo shoot, despite her daughters' discomfort.

This is not to defend Polanski in any way.

516 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:59:02pm

Okay, Lizards. Off for dinner - pork with a pickled cherry mole sauce.

{everyone} if I don't get back on before bedtime.

517 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:59:07pm

re: #489 austin_blue

Don't these people see the damage they are doing to the R's brand nationally? I mean, stupid is as stupid does, but these morons deserve a gold medal.

If you ask them they see themselves as purifying the brand by banishing the closet liberals and RINOs. Then, if you ask them about white supremacists they will simultaneously deny that any are part of the "movement" while pointing out how it is important to have a "big tent."

So you can see where the sympathies lay.

518 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:59:09pm

re: #513 Thanos

Well that's a relief, at least they aren't having fans of the Flemish SS Division on Red Eye.

The Flemings actually did raise a Brigade for the SS. It fought on the Eastern Front.

519 Pietr  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:59:24pm

re: #507 Dark_Falcon

That may now change. The question I would pose is this: If Polanski is extradited, how should he be punished?

He was already convicted and fled before sentencing. He was sentenced, and should serve that-plus the additional time for Fleeing his just punishment for waht, 32 years now?

520 Gus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:59:36pm

re: #508 Sharmuta

He's also the one who recently posted some mental gymnastics over there defending Beck's comments that McCain would have been worse for America as President.

Mental gymnastics! Yeah, just get a general idea (or in their case brain fart) put a bunch of words together in a semi-logical manner, toss in a bunch punctuation, and capitalize the wrong words. End the end it's always something about "me angry, me hate."

521 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 9:59:57pm

ggt- the triangle and cross were both upside down? If so, I'm wondering if it's some sort of homophobic symbol.

522 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:00:14pm

re: #487 Sharmuta

I'm just baffled, Sharm. Charles has built an excellent, efficient, user-friendly site for the discussion of a variety of topics. His consistency in applying standards or principles of criticism and truth to any subject gains him the respect of many visitors, and LGF averages about 100K pages views per day.

Still, I keep hearing this meme that LGF is spiraling into irrelevancy from blogs/sites that I've never even heard of, nor ever gave a shit to visit, let alone follow.

It's baffling.

523 jaunte  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:00:38pm

re: #481 Charles

There's a huge, verbose, exceedingly boring attack on me at Wizbang tonight, sticking up for Robert Stacy McCain, of course.

Wow. No kidding. I'd love to have some of that recently-expended reading time back.

524 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:00:40pm

re: #515 austin_blue

Thank you, Austin.

525 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:00:58pm

re: #520 Gus 802

Mental gymnastics! Yeah, just get a general idea (or in their case brain fart) put a bunch of words together in a semi-logical manner, toss in a bunch punctuation, and capitalize the wrong words. End the end it's always something about "me angry, me hate."

Me angry, Beck right, me smash.

526 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:01:07pm

re: #520 Gus 802

Mental gymnastics! Yeah, just get a general idea (or in their case brain fart) put a bunch of words together in a semi-logical manner, toss in a bunch punctuation, and capitalize the wrong words. End the end it's always something about "me angry, me hate."

I call it 'tying themselves up in Moebius Gordian knots.'

Logic and empirical evidence are the first casualties.

527 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:01:28pm

re: #507 Dark_Falcon

That may now change. The question I would pose is this: If Polanski is extradited, how should he be punished?

He was awaiting sentencing for a crime he plead guilty too. So he'd be subject to (given his age) time amounting to life in prison in the California prison system. And as a child molester he would have a rough go of it.

528 Gus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:01:41pm

re: #525 Sharmuta

Me angry, Beck right, me smash.

"Break things make feel good."

//

529 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:02:20pm

re: #523 jaunte

Wow. No kidding. I'd love to have some of that recently-expended reading time back.

An emotion that most of fjordman's readers came to know.

530 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:02:21pm

re: #502 ggt

My bad. I clicked the link without knowing the prior context of your discussion. Sorry.

531 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:03:02pm

re: #509 Dark_Falcon

You may think its funny, SJ, but I don't.

But there it is, DF. He is right, from the KOS side of the aisle. I'm a Dem, but from my perspective, it's not funny at all.

532 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:03:10pm

re: #505 spacejesus

no, and that's why it's hilarious

I'll feel better when the stake has been driven through the heart and we have two sane political parties again. The most extreme the GOP gets, the less leverage moderates will have in the Democratic party. The health reform plan is the perfect example.

533 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:03:23pm

re: #507 Dark_Falcon

I think the extradition is a BIG question. We'll see what the "cult of celebrity" does. I personally believe, that he should be sentenced as the current law requires. He was sentenced at the time, but CHOSE to evade that sentence. I do not have much confidence of that happening.

534 jaunte  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:04:20pm

re: #529 karmic_inquisitor

After a few of those, I had the thought that the fjordman name might have been related to the extreme length of the Norwegian coast.

535 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:04:31pm

re: #532 Ray in TX

I'll feel better when the stake has been driven through the heart and we have two sane political parties again. The most extreme the GOP gets, the less leverage moderates will have in the Democratic party. The health reform plan is the perfect example.

i'd rather have 3 or 4 sane political parties, but that's just wishful thinking

536 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:05:07pm

re: #528 Gus 802

"Break things make feel good."

//

Get angry...

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

537 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:05:29pm

re: #524 Dark_Falcon

Thank you, Austin.

Of course, my friend.

538 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:05:49pm

re: #522 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm just baffled, Sharm. Charles has built an excellent, efficient, user-friendly site for the discussion of a variety of topics. His consistency in applying standards or principles of criticism and truth to any subject gains him the respect of many visitors, and LGF averages about 100K pages views per day.

Still, I keep hearing this meme that LGF is spiraling into irrelevancy from blogs/sites that I've never even heard of, nor ever gave a shit to visit, let alone follow.

It's baffling.

First of all- this is a coordinated effort, imo.

Second- I think they think if they lie often enough about Charles and LGF is will become the truth. Since they're lying about their friends or being willfully ignorant about how to fact check, or in agreement with them- they are the ones who are going to lose in the end, because the majority in this country are in the middle, politically, and the majority of people in this country do not hold racist view or want anything to do with those who do. This strategy of theirs will ultimately backfire on them.

539 Salamantis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:06:00pm

They do upon frequent occasion sound positively hebephrenic.

/no, that's not an antisemitic psychosis (although some of them are inflicted with that malady as well); it's a variant of schizophenia characterized by what is called 'word salad', where there is a surface form adherence to grammatical rules, but the content defies all sense.

540 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:06:18pm

re: #505 spacejesus

no, and that's why it's hilarious

Hi spacejesus. I noticed that you had expressed an interest in British culture recently. Introducing the Wombles:

541 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:06:54pm

re: #521 Sharmuta

ggt- the triangle and cross were both upside down? If so, I'm wondering if it's some sort of homophobic symbol.

I don't know. I'm beginning to lose interest tho. I thought maybe someone here would recognize it off-the-bat. I'm not going to get all embroiled in what some wierdo on Fox was wearing.

542 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:07:41pm

re: #533 Floral Giraffe

I think the extradition is a BIG question. We'll see what the "cult of celebrity" does. I personally believe, that he should be sentenced as the current law requires. He was sentenced at the time, but CHOSE to evade that sentence. I do not have much confidence of that happening.

I agree with your proposal for sentencing. I know the arguments against a stiff sentence, but to me it comes back to making clear to all that those who rape must be punished. Your can't avoid that punishment by being a talented artist.

543 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:08:02pm

re: #533 Floral Giraffe

He was never sentenced. The judge in the case postponed the sentencing until he was returned to the court.

Thing is, the penalties are MUCH harsher now than then. He is facing over 50 years. Plus there are new charges related to his flight from justice.

544 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:08:14pm

re: #532 Ray in TX

I'll feel better when the stake has been driven through the heart and we have two sane political parties again. The most extreme the GOP gets, the less leverage moderates will have in the Democratic party. The health reform plan is the perfect example.

Were they ever really sane? We are talking politics and politicians.

545 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:08:18pm

re: #540 Jimmah

Hi spacejesus. I noticed that you had expressed an interest in British culture recently. Introducing the Wombles:


[Video]

I told a friend of mine about cheezy wotzits the other night at the bar, he didn't believe me at all and had to call a friend in newcastle to confirm that's what you guys call cheetos.

546 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:09:28pm

re: #519 Pietr

He'll get nada. Maybe some token days in jail, but my money's on probation.
One of the witnesses is now saying that the judge and DA in the original trial conspired to get Polanski even more than the usual sentence, so they'll try to use that. Kudos to the Swiss for sending him back, even though the French and Brits are pleading for him not to be extradited.

547 Gus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:09:29pm

re: #536 iceweasel

Get angry...

[Link: www.huffingtonpost.com...]

Funny stuff. "The Rock Obama!"

"Me no like." I didn't even watch this last night.

//The outrage!

/

548 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:09:51pm

I can't seem to separate Roman Polanski and Charles Manson in my mind.

The HORROR! Seriously.

549 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:09:54pm

re: #540 Jimmah

Hi spacejesus. I noticed that you had expressed an interest in British culture recently. Introducing the Wombles:


[Video]

The Wombles are OK, but if you want a real bit o' the ol', you've got to suss out Mr. Blobby.

550 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:10:08pm

re: #540 Jimmah

what on earth

551 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:10:53pm

re: #548 ggt

His Hollywood excusers are saying that the murder so warped his mind that he flipped out and it's not his fault he devolved into a creepy perv.

552 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:11:15pm

re: #549 Charles

The Wombles are OK, but if you want a real bit o' the ol', you've got to suss out Mr. Blobby.


[Video]

EEEek!

553 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:11:22pm

Here is a media timeline of news report clips related to the case:

[Link: www.vachss.com...]

It includes the 1997 deal that he reneged on to come back to LA to face justice. At this point no judge is going to be lenient.

554 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:11:33pm

re: #538 Sharmuta

First of all- this is a coordinated effort, imo.

I think you are absolutely correct. They fear the light of truth, and they fear Charles' skill in wielding it. It seems many groups with much ugliness to hide are attempting to discredit him before he focuses that light upon their darker sides.

555 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:11:47pm

re: #542 Dark_Falcon

re: #543 karmic_inquisitor

He was 44 and she was 13.
Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time.

556 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:12:03pm

re: #551 tradewind

His Hollywood excusers are saying that the murder so warped his mind that he flipped out and it's not his fault he devolved into a creepy perv.

So put him in a private cell in a Psych Hospital for the rest of his life. Either way, little girls will be safe from him.

557 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:12:53pm

re: #544 ggt

Were they ever really sane? We are talking politics and politicians.

Yes, they were. There was a time, before 1994, when the Christian Right was just one of many factions within the GOP. Man, I really miss Papa Bush. I still think he was probably the best Republican president we've had in the past 50 years.

558 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:13:11pm

re: #550 spacejesus

what on earth

That's what you get for hanging out in space, Jesus.

559 karmic_inquisitor  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:13:12pm

re: #549 Charles

I won't sleep well tonight.

Thanks.

560 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:13:32pm

re: #518 Dark_Falcon

The Flemings actually did raise a Brigade for the SS. It fought on the Eastern Front.

Yes, their division symbol was the Berkenkruis, upside down cross with a triangle or odal rune over it.

561 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:14:30pm

wind is really howling in the Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

562 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:14:32pm

re: #545 spacejesus

I told a friend of mine about cheezy wotzits the other night at the bar, he didn't believe me at all and had to call a friend in newcastle to confirm that's what you guys call cheetos.

Hee - that is funny. Cheesy wotsits (we brits use our 'z's - which we call 'zeds' not 'zees' sparingly). Next time you run into those sort of objections just show them this video:

563 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:15:28pm

re: #549 Charles

The Wombles are OK, but if you want a real bit o' the ol', you've got to suss out Mr. Blobby.



OK, I'll ask.
HOW do you know about that?
And, is that as pre-Barney as it looks?

564 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:15:39pm

re: #561 ggt

wind is really howling in the Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

I think the screen door just blew away from it's hinges.

565 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:15:45pm

re: #549 Charles

The Wombles are OK, but if you want a real bit o' the ol', you've got to suss out Mr. Blobby.


[Video]

Proving that, once again, the folks living in the UK are *very* different than us!

(Not that there is anything wrong with that. SWMBO and I are going over in December for the marriage of her sister and her significant other who was a founding member of Silly Wizard)

566 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:16:11pm

re: #563 Floral Giraffe

OK, I'll ask.
HOW do you know about that?

I thought everybody knew (and loved!) Mr. Blobby!

567 Randall Gross  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:16:32pm

Time for me to get some sleeps

Paco de Lucia

568 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:16:40pm

re: #565 austin_blue

Proving that, once again, the folks living in the UK are *very* different than us!

(Not that there is anything wrong with that. SWMBO and I are going over in December for the marriage of her sister and her significant other who was a founding member of Silly Wizard)

Silly Wizard -- &^%$ aren't for kids!

569 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:16:45pm

re: #566 Charles

I thought everybody knew (and loved!) Mr. Blobby!

that was terrifying

570 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:17:07pm

re: #548 ggt

Well, since Roman's pregnant wife, Sharon Tate was killed by th Manson folks, I suspect you are not alone in being unable to seperate Roman Polanski from Charles Manson.

(The biggest difference is that Manson is serving his sentance...)

571 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:17:11pm

re: #569 spacejesus

that was terrifying

Certainly explains alot about the Brits!

572 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:17:33pm

re: #556 ggt

I agree it was gross, but I still don't think they'll end up locking him away for any length of time... even though they should.
His lawyers will argue his age, and then they'll say the trial was poisoned because of dirty dealings re the sentencing.
The justice would have been never letting him get out of the country in the first place.

573 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:17:55pm

re: #565 austin_blue

Proving that, once again, the folks living in the UK are *very* different than us!

Awww...not really. Teletubbies was originally Brit too, and a favourite early morning show for people to watch during teh comedown when they got back from clubbing...

/not that I'd know about anything like that.

574 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:18:12pm

re: #549 Charles

The Wombles are OK, but if you want a real bit o' the ol', you've got to suss out Mr. Blobby.


This is the dark side of British culture. I had hoped no one outside the UK knew of it...damn...;-)

575 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:18:22pm

re: #573 iceweasel

Awww...not really. Teletubbies was originally Brit too, and a favourite early morning show for people to watch during teh comedown when they got back from clubbing...

/not that I'd know about anything like that.

Teletubbies was beyond stupid.

576 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:18:23pm

re: #568 ggt

Silly Wizard -- &^%$ aren't for kids!

Actually, a great band. The first real Scottish Fusion group. They were killer bee.

577 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:18:33pm

re: #566 Charles

I learn something here, every day.
(Pass the brain bleach on this one???)

578 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:18:42pm

Whatever you do, never get into the ring with Mr. Blobby.

579 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:19:00pm

re: #578 Charles

Whatever you do, never get into the ring with Mr. Blobby.


[Video]

I'm NOT watching. I have to sleep sometime tonite.

580 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:19:06pm

re: #561 ggt

wind is really howling in the Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland.

It was raining very hard in the Near Suburbs earlier tonight.

581 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:19:58pm

It's got to be something in the UK diet...

582 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:20:20pm

re: #575 ggt

Teletubbies was beyond stupid.

It's a lot more entertaining in the circumstances I mentioned. Drugs aren't always bad...

583 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:20:21pm

re: #581 Sharmuta

It's got to be something in the UK diet...

Bubble and squeak...

584 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:20:59pm

re: #581 Sharmuta

It's got to be something in the UK diet...

The cheesy wotsits. Fried Mars Bars. And the crisps.

585 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:21:05pm

Damn. Not only do the gangs in Chicago beat and kill a sixteen year old honor student because he wouldn't join a gang, they torch a memorial left at the site by the other kids.
It doesn't get any more wrong.

586 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:21:15pm

re: #582 iceweasel

It's a lot more entertaining in the circumstances I mentioned. Drugs aren't always bad...

Inspector Gadget with your eyes closed was one of our favorites.

587 Sharmuta  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:21:50pm

re: #584 iceweasel

Chek yer email, pleez.

588 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:22:17pm

mr. blobby seems like something the japanese would come up with though

589 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:22:26pm

re: #578 Charles

OK, I'm going in.
PLEASE for the love of God, rescue me in 5 minutes?

590 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:22:33pm
Damn. Not only do the gangs in Chicago beat and kill a sixteen year old honor student because he wouldn't join a gang, they torch a memorial left at the site by the other kids.
It doesn't get any more wrong.

Link, please?

591 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:23:56pm

re: #569 spacejesus

that was terrifying

The host of the show that spawned 'Mr Blobby' was Noel Edmonds. More on Noel Edmonds here :

592 Bagua  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:25:02pm

The Flouncometer&reg: is flashing away on the previous thread. Is there an inexhaustible supply of the class of 2004?

593 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:25:06pm

re: #583 austin_blue

Bubble and squeak...

I've always thought those would be great names for a pair of cats.

Bubble, of course, is also the name of the assistant on AbFab...

594 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:25:56pm

re: #572 tradewind

I agree it was gross, but I still don't think they'll end up locking him away for any length of time... even though they should.
His lawyers will argue his age, and then they'll say the trial was poisoned because of dirty dealings re the sentencing.
The justice would have been never letting him get out of the country in the first place.

I will say this about Polanski. As I understand it, the victim has already publicly forgiven him for this act.

If she is now free to press charges and yet refuses to do so, then why clog up the courts over it? There may be a message of forgiveness here that perhaps we should stop and ponder for a moment. A "teachable moment," as a certain person may describe it. Why should we carry more animus over this crime than the actual victim?

595 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:26:18pm

re: #585 tradewind

Damn. Not only do the gangs in Chicago beat and kill a sixteen year old honor student because he wouldn't join a gang, they torch a memorial left at the site by the other kids.
It doesn't get any more wrong.

The same totalitarianism as AoG at work. If you do not join us you'd don't deserve to live and what's more, we'll even destroy any positive memory of you. People will curse your name, because we will hurt them if they praise you.

Who controls the Present, controls the Past.
Who controls the Past, controls the Future.

Proper Response of Free People: Fuck your future! We'll kick your tyrannical ass up between your shoulder blades!

596 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:26:28pm

re: #549 Charles

OMG... it's the love child of Jabba the Hut and Barney.

597 Irish Rose  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:27:24pm

From HuffPo ( I won't link):

Tea Party Founder Announces: "A Huffington Post Of Our Own"

Eric Odom, founder of American Liberty Alliance (ALA), the group that launched and organized the tea party movement across the country, announced Friday what he calls a movement-minded news portal and his answer to the the Huffington Post. While the domain and branding are secret for now, Odom has given his news portal a temporary name, Project 73.

598 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:28:11pm

re: #591 Jimmah

The host of the show that spawned 'Mr Blobby' was Noel Edmonds. More on Noel Edmonds here :


did you brits have the ren and stimpy show over there?

599 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:28:50pm

re: #594 Ray in TX

That's why it's ' The State of CA vs Polanski' and not ' Sally Jones v. Polanski' in criminal courts.
No telling how much money Polanski and his buddy Jack Nicholson paid in an effort to make amends.
/cough/

600 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:30:02pm

re: #594 Ray in TX

He was a 44 year old man who drugged and had sex with a 13 year old girl. Granted, it was a long time ago, but, you're saying he should get off Scott Free? I can sympathise with the 13 year old, who wants this to be over (and, I've seen it posted that she settled out of court, with him).
BUT.
He did the crime, and he needs to do the time.
It's his own [explecitives deleted] fault that this wasn't resolved a LONG time ago.
He skipped the country.
It's his fault, sigh, again.

601 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:30:40pm

re: #592 Bagua

The Flouncometer® is flashing away on the previous thread. Is there an inexhaustible supply of the class of 2004?

It's getting very weird in that thread.

I expect a flounce or two in the wee hours.

602 tradewind  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:31:20pm

re: #595 Dark_Falcon

The report I saw said that ten or twelve people stood around and watched.
What's astounding is that they don't have every one of the perps in custody now. You know everyone knows who they are.

603 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:32:18pm

re: #594 Ray in TX

I will say this about Polanski. As I understand it, the victim has already publicly forgiven him for this act.

If she is now free to press charges and yet refuses to do so, then why clog up the courts over it? There may be a message of forgiveness here that perhaps we should stop and ponder for a moment. A "teachable moment," as a certain person may describe it. Why should we carry more animus over this crime than the actual victim?

Um, because he fucked a 13 year old girl? Hello?

604 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:32:41pm

re: #593 iceweasel

Hi Ice, LOVED AbFab!
How are you tonight?

605 Charles Johnson  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:32:49pm

There's our first flounce of the evening, in an old thread, of course.

606 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:33:26pm

re: #597 Irish Rose

Project 73? Sounds like a buggy, unpolished PCRPG from Russia.

...and his answer to the the Huffington Post.

When did the HuffPo ask him "Can the nutters on the right go as full blown crazy with conspiracy/fear mongering as the nutters on the left have in the past"?

I must have missed that.

607 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:33:40pm

re: #604 Floral Giraffe

Hi Ice, LOVED AbFab!
How are you tonight?

Hey FG! { { {FG} } }

I loved abfab too. Especially patsy. How are you? I'm great!

608 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:34:43pm

re: #603 austin_blue

Actually he drugged, raped and sodomized the 13 year old.

609 jaunte  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:36:04pm

re: #608 Floral Giraffe

And deliberately evaded the penalty for those actions for years.

610 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:36:30pm

re: #607 iceweasel

You Ice!
Pissed that people think that scum Polanski should get away with what he did. Other than that, just peachy. Well, a tad damaged after that Mr. Blobby thing...

611 lurking faith  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:36:46pm

re: #594 Ray in TX

Forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean "don't punish the perp."

He raped a kid. He's a danger to society. Lock him up.

Oh, and he was ALREADY CONVICTED before he fled the country.

612 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:37:38pm

re: #610 Floral Giraffe

You Ice!
Pissed that people think that scum Polanski should get away with what he did. Other than that, just peachy. Well, a tad damaged after that Mr. Blobby thing...

Well, he's been arrested. So he might have to face the music now.

613 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:40:20pm

re: #593 iceweasel

I've always thought those would be great names for a pair of cats.

Bubble, of course, is also the name of the assistant on AbFab...


'Bubbles' is just an awesomely funny character. Thanks for the reminder. Must put ab fab on the list of dvd's to watch over christmas ;-)

614 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:40:25pm

re: #600 Floral Giraffe

He was a 44 year old man who drugged and had sex with a 13 year old girl. Granted, it was a long time ago, but, you're saying he should get off Scott Free? I can sympathise with the 13 year old, who wants this to be over (and, I've seen it posted that she settled out of court, with him).
BUT.
He did the crime, and he needs to do the time.
It's his own [explecitives deleted] fault that this wasn't resolved a LONG time ago.
He skipped the country.
It's his fault, sigh, again.

What I'm saying is that this victim doesn't care to press charges, so it's pretty hard for me to get worked up about it. If she wanted him to do time, then I'd think it was worth extraditing him.

But if she has forgiven him, then I have absolutely zero reason for not doing the same. Under no circumstance should my outrage at Polanski for committing this act ever exceed the outrage felt by the actual victim.

615 Bagua  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:41:36pm

re: #614 Ray in TX

There is no need to press charges, he was convicted and is a fugitive.

616 Ning the Merciless  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:41:42pm

Now on another topic entirely:

An excellent musical tribute to Carl Sagan, the Cosmos TV show and Stephen Hawking. I think it has the potential to go viral. I watched it about 10 times the first day I saw it.

617 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:41:51pm

re: #598 spacejesus

did you brits have the ren and stimpy show over there?

Yes! Love it - so very, very sick. I wonder if you guys ever got "The Trap Door"?

618 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:43:20pm

re: #612 Dark_Falcon

He has yet to be extradited. "We'll see, said the blind man."
I really don't have a dog in this hunt.
I just am offended that "justice" is not blind.
If you or I had done something like this, would WE be in the same or similar circumstances? This is an early, unresolved case of "celebrity justice". Unresolved, because the perp skipped.

(Who put the sand in my shorts tonight?)

619 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:43:38pm

re: #611 lurking faith

Forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean "don't punish the perp."

Well, in fairness, I'd have to disagree with that almost categorically. Forgiveness absolutely requires that one no longer seek punishment, or else it's just a meaningless word.

620 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:45:42pm

re: #614 Ray in TX

I do NOT agree with you.
Justice has not been served.
The victim of the crime has been paid and wants to get on with her life.
The perp has paid some cash & you think he should walk.
I disagree.

621 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:46:40pm

re: #608 Floral Giraffe

Actually he drugged, raped and sodomized the 13 year old.

Exactly! Look, I am probably one of the most socially Liberal posters on this board, but that man is a pedophile, clear and simple. I don't care about any excuses about the death of his pregnant wife.

622 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:47:22pm

re: #617 Jimmah

Yes! Love it - so very, very sick. I wonder if you guys ever got "The Trap Door"?


nope, never seen that.

but i did find something embarrassingly american and hilarious on youtube just now

623 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:49:07pm

re: #619 Ray in TX

Well, in fairness, I'd have to disagree with that almost categorically. Forgiveness absolutely requires that one no longer seek punishment, or else it's just a meaningless word.

By that definition, I am unwilling to forgive. Some crimes demand hard time be served, and this is one of them. To not require that time to be served trivializes the offense.

624 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:49:17pm

re: #619 Ray in TX

Well, in fairness, I'd have to disagree with that almost categorically. Forgiveness absolutely requires that one no longer seek punishment, or else it's just a meaningless word.

If I forgive, then I may wish to forego seeking punishment or retribution, correct.

However, the laws of the society at large do not necessarily match my personal willingness to forgive.

The guy has been convicted. He skipped. He should serve his time.

625 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:50:04pm

re: #624 reine.de.tout

If I forgive, then I may wish to forego seeking punishment or retribution, correct.

However, the laws of the society at large do not necessarily match my personal willingness to forgive.

The guy has been convicted. He skipped. He should serve his time.

Agreed!

626 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:50:13pm

re: #623 Dark_Falcon

By that definition, I am unwilling to forgive. Some crimes demand hard time be served, and this is one of them. To not require that time to be served trivializes the offense.

Yes, trivializes the offense, and leaves society at large, lawless.

627 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:52:14pm

re: #626 reine.de.tout

Yes, trivializes the offense, and leaves society at large, lawless.

Besides - criminal code violations are the purview of law enforcement; it's civil code violations that would be more likely to be affected by a person's willingness to personally forgive, I would think.

628 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:55:34pm

re: #622 SpaceJesus

That does it. I'm telling SpaceMaria and SpaceJose that their son (YOU!) needs to have his webcam taken away.
/

629 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:56:22pm

re: #628 Slumbering Behemoth

That does it. I'm telling SpaceMaria and SpaceJose that their son (YOU!) needs to have his webcam taken away.
/

And ... why aren't you slumbering?

630 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:56:49pm

re: #620 Floral Giraffe

I do NOT agree with you.
Justice has not been served.
The victim of the crime has been paid and wants to get on with her life.
The perp has paid some cash & you think he should walk.
I disagree.

No, you don't understand. You are wrapped up in your anger over the details of the case. I really don't care for the details at this point.

The actual victim has forgiven Polanski. Therefore, neither I nor you have legitimate grounds for holding onto outrage over this. Polanski did not victimize you or I. He victimized someone else, and that person has since forgiven him.

So, my opinion on this is that criminal act between Polanski and his victim has been settled between the two people involved. I fully understand that the state has legal standing to pursue it, but I really don't see the point of getting worked up over it.

And calling Polanski a "menace to society" when he has clearly been living in society for 30+ years without committing another crime like this seems illogical. He is obviously not a menace to society despite the crime he committed those years ago.

Now, with regards to forgiveness, you simply cannot forgive someone and yet still demand they be punished for the act you are supposedly forgiving them for. Its completely incompatible with the definition of forgiveness.

631 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:57:32pm

re: #627 reine.de.tout

I feel a great deal of pity, for the victim. This was a sad event in her life, 30 years ago & she gets dragged into a publicity frenzy every time it comes up. She's a married lady with kids now, and just wants this to be OVER. Can't blame her, she's moved on, as best she can, yet the perpetrator can't face his penalties.

It's very sad.

632 SpaceJesus  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:57:58pm

re: #628 Slumbering Behemoth

That does it. I'm telling SpaceMaria and SpaceJose that their son (YOU!) needs to have his webcam taken away.
/

that's fine, just don't touch my cope whiskey ya hear

633 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:58:10pm

re: #622 SpaceJesus

My rating of the man in that vid:

[Link: www.youtube.com...]

634 austin_blue  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:58:58pm

Good night all! Sweet dreams!

635 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:59:08pm

re: #614 Ray in TX

What I'm saying is that this victim doesn't care to press charges, so it's pretty hard for me to get worked up about it. If she wanted him to do time, then I'd think it was worth extraditing him.

But if she has forgiven him, then I have absolutely zero reason for not doing the same. Under no circumstance should my outrage at Polanski for committing this act ever exceed the outrage felt by the actual victim.

I'm pretty sure I'm one of the most socially liberal people here, but he drugged her. That makes it rape even if you don't care about the whole age thing. Men don't get to drug children and have sex with them in this country and get away with it. I don't know of any country where they do. He's gotten away with it for too long already.

636 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:59:27pm

re: #630 Ray in TX

No, you don't understand. You are wrapped up in your anger over the details of the case. I really don't care for the details at this point.

The actual victim has forgiven Polanski. Therefore, neither I nor you have legitimate grounds for holding onto outrage over this. Polanski did not victimize you or I. He victimized someone else, and that person has since forgiven him.

So, my opinion on this is that criminal act between Polanski and his victim has been settled between the two people involved. I fully understand that the state has legal standing to pursue it, but I really don't see the point of getting worked up over it.

And calling Polanski a "menace to society" when he has clearly been living in society for 30+ years without committing another crime like this seems illogical. He is obviously not a menace to society despite the crime he committed those years ago.

Now, with regards to forgiveness, you simply cannot forgive someone and yet still demand they be punished for the act you are supposedly forgiving them for. Its completely incompatible with the definition of forgiveness.

Regardless of what the victim feels, the man has already had his day in court and LOST. He now has to serve his sentence, which will be worse because he skipped.

637 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:59:46pm

re: #622 SpaceJesus

nope, never seen that.

but i did find something embarrassingly american and hilarious on youtube just now


OH. YOUR. GOD.

2.0 poster boy right there!

638 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 10:59:46pm

re: #630 Ray in TX

Apologist.

639 freetoken  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:00:19pm

re: #630 Ray in TX


The actual victim has forgiven Polanski. Therefore, neither I nor you have legitimate grounds for holding onto outrage over this. Polanski did not victimize you or I. He victimized someone else, and that person has since forgiven him.

Um... No.

Society has a responsibility to each of its members to carry out justice in a blind fashion. Whether or not the victim has forgiven Polanski does not affect the responsibility of the the greater society to protect itself.

640 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:00:38pm

re: #630 Ray in TX


So, my opinion on this is that criminal act between Polanski and his victim has been settled between the two people involved. I fully understand that the state has legal standing to pursue it, but I really don't see the point of getting worked up over it.

Again, I'm a liberal, but do you have any respect for the rule of law?

641 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:02:29pm

re: #630 Ray in TX

It's not about anger, Ray. This is about making clear to everyone, especially celebrities, that if you drug and rape a child you will go to prison. You can't buy your way out of it, and you can't simply run long enough to make us move on. You must pay for such a misdeed. To fail to punish Roman Polanski is let others think thaat they may be able to rape avoid punishment for it. And that is not an impression we can give.

642 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:03:34pm

re: #640 Conservative Moonbat

Again, I'm a liberal, but do you have any respect for the rule of law?

I'm a little upset that Roman Polanski thought he could escape his sentencing by leaving the country. WTF? Is is above the law? The first crime was against the girl, leaving the country after conviction was a crime against the court.

643 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:04:24pm

Is there a statute of limitations on skipping out( --in California, I guess)?

644 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:05:00pm

re: #629 reine.de.tout

It's only 11pm here, not quite time for slumber. Call me "Drinking Behemoth" for the time being.

P.S., I saw this earlier and thought of you. Scroll to the bottom for "Your Shortcut to Four-Star Meals". Basically, it's quick gourmet recipes for the toaster oven.

645 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:06:02pm

re: #631 Floral Giraffe

I feel a great deal of pity, for the victim. This was a sad event in her life, 30 years ago & she gets dragged into a publicity frenzy every time it comes up. She's a married lady with kids now, and just wants this to be OVER. Can't blame her, she's moved on, as best she can, yet the perpetrator can't face his penalties.

It's very sad.

I agree.
If we "let people off" because the victim has forgiven, I'm afraid we would be a very chaotic society very quickly.

And as to Ray's statements:

The actual victim has forgiven Polanski. Therefore, neither I nor you have legitimate grounds for holding onto outrage over this. Polanski did not victimize you or I. He victimized someone else, and that person has since forgiven him.

So, my opinion on this is that criminal act between Polanski and his victim has been settled between the two people involved. I fully understand that the state has legal standing to pursue it, but I really don't see the point of getting worked up over it.

And calling Polanski a "menace to society" when he has clearly been living in society for 30+ years without committing another crime like this seems illogical. He is obviously not a menace to society despite the crime he committed those years ago.

Yes, Ray, I do have legitimate grounds for being outraged at Polanski's behavior. Just as I am outraged at the behavior of priests who engage in similar behavior. Are you willing to let them go, too?

Polanski has not bee charged with any other crimes in 30 years. I have not been charged with a crime in 30 years. This does not mean that Polanski has not committed any crimes during those years, nor does it mean that I haven't committed any crimes during those years. It is NOT clear that either of us has lived 30+ years crime free.

646 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:06:03pm

re: #623 Dark_Falcon

By that definition, I am unwilling to forgive.

There's nothing wrong with that position. One of the general rules I live by, however, is to not place my personal desire for justice over the desires of those people that have actually been wronged. It's a great way to moderate your outrage in a society then seems bent on manufacturing outrage on a daily basis.

I have two teenage daughters. I would find it offensive if people thought that I somehow condoned Polanski's actions.

647 freetoken  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:06:38pm

re: #622 SpaceJesus

I only up-dinged this one because SJ, in his infallible wisdom, has found the classic face of the American red neck... Wow, the video guy is not only vile but stupid.

648 Bagua  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:07:20pm

re: #630 Ray in TX


So, my opinion on this is that criminal act between Polanski and his victim has been settled between the two people involved. I fully understand that the state has legal standing to pursue it, but I really don't see the point of getting worked up over it.

The victim is no longer the only wronged party, the man was lawfully convicted and has a debt to society forgiveness does not cure.

649 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:07:32pm

re: #632 SpaceJesus

that's fine, just don't touch my cope whiskey ya hear

Not a problem. Imma Skoal, Longcut Straight man meself.

650 lurking faith  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:08:03pm

re: #619 Ray in TX

Well, in fairness, I'd have to disagree with that almost categorically. Forgiveness absolutely requires that one no longer seek punishment, or else it's just a meaningless word.

Merriam-Webster says:
Main Entry: for·give
Pronunciation: fər-ˈgiv, fȯr-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): for·gave -ˈgāv; for·giv·en -ˈgi-vən; for·giv·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English forgifan, from for- + gifan to give
Date: before 12th century
transitive verb
1 a : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for < forgive an insult > b : to grant relief from payment of < forgive a debt >
2 : to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon < forgive one's enemies >

651 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:08:18pm

Have to say, on this I'm more inclined to Ray's view myself. And I'm surprised to be there, because I'm sure you all know I'm a feminist and in favour of far stronger punishments for rapists and child molesters than we currently have on the books.

In this case, I think the punishment may not fit the crime, entirely. The victim has forgiven him, for one thing.

Also, I think I may be swayed by the hideous circumstances of Sharon Tate's murder. i think something like that would fuck a person up for a very long time. And afaik, Polanski hasn't engaged in that kind of behaviour again. That's a big deal to me. If he has, then I'd be all for the harshest punishments available.

I still think he should serve some time, say a couple of years. But nothing like what's on the books for him now. Just my opinion.

652 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:08:51pm

re: #643 ggt

Is there a statute of limitations on skipping out( --in California, I guess)?

No. Polanski was convicted. The only limit on how long he can be legally pursued is his lifespan. There is no statute of limitations once you are convicted.

653 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:09:06pm

re: #643 ggt

He is a convicted felon, who escaped the country. There is NO statute of limitations. He has evaded capture for 30 years. He may or may not evade it this time...

654 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:10:25pm

re: #644 Slumbering Behemoth

It's only 11pm here, not quite time for slumber. Call me "Drinking Behemoth" for the time being.

P.S., I saw this earlier and thought of you. Scroll to the bottom for "Your Shortcut to Four-Star Meals". Basically, it's quick gourmet recipes for the toaster oven.

I don't have a toaster oven, but my mom did and I was always surprised how versatile it was.

I may have to get one.

655 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:11:29pm

re: #651 iceweasel

I might be amenable to some form of reduced sentence, but only if he waives extraditions and returns to California to face justice. If he decides to fight extradition, then he must be punished for attempting to evade the just punishment for his crime.

656 freetoken  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:11:54pm

re: #651 iceweasel

In this case, I think the punishment may not fit the crime, entirely. The victim has forgiven him, for one thing.

If some additionally evidence can be brought before a judge so that he can be re-sentenced to something more appropriate then fine. However, he is still a convicted felon and that means something far more than just being "forgiven" by one of the victims.

657 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:12:03pm

re: #647 freetoken

I just got a bit further into that vid. In the words of Stan Marsh "Holy shit, dude".

What an ass.

658 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:12:16pm

re: #646 Ray in TX

It's called the law. It's a standard of rules & behaviors that our civilization has chosen to follow. You appear to be advocating not following the law. That's why I (at least) jumped all over you. If the ;aw is to work, it has to apply equally, to all.

659 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:12:57pm

re: #651 iceweasel

Have to say, on this I'm more inclined to Ray's view myself. And I'm surprised to be there, because I'm sure you all know I'm a feminist and in favour of far stronger punishments for rapists and child molesters than we currently have on the books.

In this case, I think the punishment may not fit the crime, entirely. The victim has forgiven him, for one thing.

Also, I think I may be swayed by the hideous circumstances of Sharon Tate's murder. i think something like that would fuck a person up for a very long time. And afaik, Polanski hasn't engaged in that kind of behaviour again. That's a big deal to me. If he has, then I'd be all for the harshest punishments available.

I still think he should serve some time, say a couple of years. But nothing like what's on the books for him now. Just my opinion.

I just keep wondering why Ray is so willing to let Polanski off, when I suspect he would be pushing hard, AS HE SHOULD BE, for very stiff penalties and NO circumstantial forgiveness for clergy pedophiles.

660 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:14:16pm

re: #658 Floral Giraffe

It's called the law. It's a standard of rules & behaviors that our civilization has chosen to follow. You appear to be advocating not following the law. That's why I (at least) jumped all over you. If the law is to work, it has to apply equally, to all.

PIYF, but otherwise Quite Concur.

661 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:14:20pm

re: #651 iceweasel

How do you know he hasn't f'd every 13 year old in Europe?
Seriously?

662 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:14:44pm

re: #655 Dark_Falcon

I might be amenable to some form of reduced sentence, but only if he waives extraditions and returns to California to face justice. If he decides to fight extradition, then he must be punished for attempting to evade the just punishment for his crime.


Well, fighting extradition is a legal option for him. Morally, however, I agree with you. I'd like to se him waive it because it's the right thing to do.

663 Bagua  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:14:56pm

re: #651 iceweasel

All your concerns would be considered at the actual sentencing, the point being conviction and release on bail require an appearance before the court for sentencing.

664 BARACK THE VOTE  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:15:13pm

re: #661 Floral Giraffe

How do you know he hasn't f'd every 13 year old in Europe?
Seriously?

Yeah, we don't. And that does worry me quite a bit.

665 Wishbone  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:15:32pm

I crawled out from under my rock to say this:

If it were up to me to punish Polanski for his crime of 30 years ago, I'd have hunted him to the ends of the Earth to ensure that he eventually choked on specific (and very painfully removed) parts of his anatomy. No mitigation, no mercy, certainly no fucking excuses.

30 years does not lessen the fact that he's a fucking nonce. End of story.

666 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:15:47pm

re: #654 reine.de.tout

I was thinking that you might be able to adapt some of that for the LGF cook book. I don't know if there is any kind of copyright issue with recipes, though.

On occasion, I have baked bacon in my toaster oven. I don't have any precise formula, I just sprinkle on some pepper, and maybe some other herbs or spices if I am feeling experimental, and cook it 'til it's done. It usually turns out pretty dang good.

667 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:17:25pm

re: #641 Dark_Falcon

It's not about anger, Ray. This is about making clear to everyone, especially celebrities, that if you drug and rape a child you will go to prison. You can't buy your way out of it, and you can't simply run long enough to make us move on. You must pay for such a misdeed. To fail to punish Roman Polanski is let others think thaat they may be able to rape avoid punishment for it. And that is not an impression we can give.

Well, I am sure that the wheels of justice will turn on Polanski. I was not suggesting that he be set free. I'm just saying that I'm ambivalent about the whole thing.

I just have this vision of a woman who has moved on with her life now knowing that she is going to be dragged through the press and possibly back into court when she would just rather it all go away. I am pretty sure that I sympathize with her a lot more than the people who want to make sure the state gets its pound of flesh.

668 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:17:50pm

re: #666 Slumbering Behemoth

I was thinking that you might be able to adapt some of that for the LGF cook book. I don't know if there is any kind of copyright issue with recipes, though.

On occasion, I have baked bacon in my toaster oven. I don't have any precise formula, I just sprinkle on some pepper, and maybe some other herbs or spices if I am feeling experimental, and cook it 'til it's done. It usually turns out pretty dang good.

Yeah, we ran across some questions about that for Volume 1. We originally planned to reproduce everyone's avatar - but since some of them seemed to be characters that might be protected, we didn't do that. It's sticky.

669 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:20:52pm

re: #667 Ray in TX

Well, I am sure that the wheels of justice will turn on Polanski. I was not suggesting that he be set free. I'm just saying that I'm ambivalent about the whole thing.

I just have this vision of a woman who has moved on with her life now knowing that she is going to be dragged through the press and possibly back into court when she would just rather it all go away. I am pretty sure that I sympathize with her a lot more than the people who want to make sure the state gets its pound of flesh.

Now, this explanation about having sympathy for this lady is a bit different, and of course we all have some sympathy for the situation she finds herself in now, 30 years down the road.

But I would hope that she is mature enough to understand that even if this is difficult for her, it is a citizen's obligation to do what they can to ensure the laws of the land are upheld. Just my opinion.

670 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:22:02pm

re: #665 Wishbone

I crawled out from under my rock to say this:

If it were up to me to punish Polanski for his crime of 30 years ago, I'd have hunted him to the ends of the Earth to ensure that he eventually choked on specific (and very painfully removed) parts of his anatomy. No mitigation, no mercy, certainly no fucking excuses.

30 years does not lessen the fact that he's a fucking nonce. End of story.

All I can say is that he is LUCKY he didn't do it to my kid. I would hunt him down and gladly suffer the consequences.

671 Gretchen G.Tiger  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:22:46pm

New thread, and my cue to leave

weet dreams all!

672 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:23:54pm

re: #667 Ray in TX

Ray, I'm glad you joined this forum.

I'm sorry to have sand in my nickers over this, on your first night.
Normally, I'm kinda quiet.

BUT

I don't understand why you think it's OK for this CONVICTED CRIMINAL to evade justice.

Now, I am done with this conversation.

Again, welcome to Charles's site, LGF.

673 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:25:10pm

re: #667 Ray in TX

I do sympathize with her, but sympathy cannot sway me from what I consider the duty to see justice done. If the objective is for her not to be in the spotlight, then Polanski should waive extradition and accept his punishment. As I've said, I would be willing to accept a reduced sentence in such a case to avoid dragging his victim into this again. However, if he insists on dragging this out, then the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

674 lurking faith  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:25:13pm

re: #666 Slumbering Behemoth

Published recipes do fall under copyright, unless nobody knows the source or it's publlic domain (e.g., Senate bean soup).
The LGF cookbook is not for profit, but we stlll can't just copy stuff without permission and sell it.

Inventing similar recipes is another matter. Every general cookbook has a beef stew recipe; they can't help but resemble each other a lot.

675 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:29:04pm

re: #674 lurking faith

Cool. I wasn't sure, but I suspected as much.

Say, is that an Evil Slayer in your avatar?

676 lurking faith  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:29:21pm

re: #668 reine.de.tout

I was wondering, if there are recipes that were submitted by the now-banned, will those be dropped? Or perhaps kept, but with an asterisk or flouncing child placed after their nics?

677 reine.de.tout  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:30:42pm

re: #676 lurking faith

I was wondering, if there are recipes that were submitted by the now-banned, will those be dropped? Or perhaps kept, but with an asterisk or flouncing child placed after their nics?

We have decided to keep them. Probably no notice about the flounces - would be ungenerous, I think to do that.

It's interesting - after the success of Volume 1, we got a lot of very good recipes for Volume 2.

So I'm looking forward to it.

678 lurking faith  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:31:13pm

re: #675 Slumbering Behemoth

Formerly evil. Why doesn't anyone believe that?

679 Ray in TX  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:33:54pm

re: #672 Floral Giraffe

I don't understand why you think it's OK for this CONVICTED CRIMINAL to evade justice.

Hey, I'm ok with disagreeing with people. But please don't put words in my mouth. It's rude.

I'm honestly just taking the side of the victim. She *wants* Polanski to be forgiven for his crime, and I'm willing to honor that. If she wanted him to serve 30 years, then I would probably still carry a lot more outrage over what Polanski did.

I'd love to quote Jesus about now, but it's late and I don't want to look it up, nor do I want to piss anyone else off. Have a good night, everyone.

680 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:35:54pm

re: #679 Ray in TX

Goodnight, Ray. Good talk. I don't agree with you, but you argued your point decently and you were respectful of others the entire time.

And now I am also going to go to bed. Goodnight, all.

681 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:36:32pm

re: #669 reine.de.tout

Now, this explanation about having sympathy for this lady is a bit different, and of course we all have some sympathy for the situation she finds herself in now, 30 years down the road.

But I would hope that she is mature enough to understand that even if this is difficult for her, it is a citizen's obligation to do what they can to ensure the laws of the land are upheld. Just my opinion.

This is something I want to do some reading in, because the brief skims over the media coverage of Polanski's detention mention that there are some questions, which the victim feels as well, about how the original legal case was handled.

The problem with crimes committed by famous people is that it's hard to have true justice for either the victim or the accused because the celebrity angle means that there's a huge risk that either the court and prosecutors are either going to be overly harsh to appear not to give favorable treatment to a celebrity or overly lenient because the celebrity is popular.

682 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:38:31pm

re: #670 ggt

All I can say is that he is LUCKY he didn't do it to my kid. I would hunt him down and gladly suffer the consequences.

That's the grossest angle to this case, actually. The kid apparently got raped and the mom took the money. I don't think Polanski should have gotten off but I think the mother should have been hanged by her toes and poked with sharp things.

I feel the same way about the second kid that accused Michael Jackson. Seriously, after hearing that, what the hell kind of parent lets their kid sleep over at MJ's house??? (Hint: the kind of parent who wants to ca$h in by pimping out their kid).

683 Bagua  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:40:10pm

re: #681 ~Fianna

Ya, the Lockerbie bomber didn't like his trial either. But who do we trust, a conviction in a court of law, or later doubts advanced in the media?

684 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:40:35pm

re: #681 ~Fianna

And, according to local news ( LA lizard) the original judge is long dead.
So there are court records to read, but no judge to discuss them with.

685 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:41:37pm

re: #683 Bagua

Ya, the Lockerbie bomber didn't like his trial either. But who do we trust, a conviction in a court of law, or later doubts advanced in the media?

I'm inclined to take the victim's point of view fairly seriously. If she thinks that the whole thing had some problems, that's certainly worth considering IMO.

686 ~Fianna  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:42:16pm

re: #684 Floral Giraffe

And, according to local news ( LA lizard) the original judge is long dead.
So there are court records to read, but no judge to discuss them with.

*nod* I read that, which makes it very complicated. It's hard to figure out what a dead guy was thinking 30 years ago.

687 Dancing along the light of day  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 11:45:46pm

re: #686 ~Fianna

Still, a 44 year old, drugging, sodomising and raping a 13 year old.
How much discussion needs to be had?
What EVER her family was paid, before or after, it doesn't matter.
Last time I checked, sex slavery was illegal in California.

I am taking off my knickers, and shaking the sand out.
I would like to be done with this.
As, would the victim...

688 SixDegrees  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 1:59:38am

re: #651 iceweasel

Have to say, on this I'm more inclined to Ray's view myself. And I'm surprised to be there, because I'm sure you all know I'm a feminist and in favour of far stronger punishments for rapists and child molesters than we currently have on the books.

In this case, I think the punishment may not fit the crime, entirely. The victim has forgiven him, for one thing.

Also, I think I may be swayed by the hideous circumstances of Sharon Tate's murder. i think something like that would fuck a person up for a very long time. And afaik, Polanski hasn't engaged in that kind of behaviour again. That's a big deal to me. If he has, then I'd be all for the harshest punishments available.

I still think he should serve some time, say a couple of years. But nothing like what's on the books for him now. Just my opinion.

The judge can take all of that into consideration at his sentencing.

As for applying the law as it stands now, that's not entirely likely. Although judges are a product of their times, they are also cognizant of precedent - and it's ties with the past. In circumstances like these, the penalties available at the time of conviction would be applied. See also the Constitutional prohibition against ex post facto laws.

re: #661 Floral Giraffe

How do you know he hasn't f'd every 13 year old in Europe?
Seriously?

We don't know that. You can't prove a negative assertion of this sort. The only thing that can be said is that there is no evidence of any such behavior on his part, at least not that I'm aware of. If there is, that could certainly be taken under consideration. But as far as I know, that's purely speculative.

689 funky chicken  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 5:14:57am

re: #314 Salamantis

The reason that the letters were written is that the radical antiabortionists wish to define support for clinic bombings and doctor-murder as the one and only acceptable Christian position, and cannot bear when other people who self-identify as Christians, particularly ministers, church congregations or religious denominations, take issue with them on this point.

Right. And if the GOP is seen as encouraging to this type of thing, well, how many rational people are going to be excited to support it?

690 Salamantis  Mon, Sep 28, 2009 5:26:19am

re: #689 funky chicken

Right. And if the GOP is seen as encouraging to this type of thing, well, how many rational people are going to be excited to support it?

The crazies think they already have a lock on GOP support, and they unfortunately seem to be right about that; they're just trolling for more crazies. They couldn't care less whether it drives voters away from the GOP, as long as it lassoes them a few more domestic terrorists.

And the GOP politicos are either oblivious to the damage this does to their party's electoral chances nationwide, or don't care, so long as they can make it work for them in their own states or districts.

691 Salamantis  Tue, Sep 29, 2009 1:10:26am
[Donald] Spitz, who is the head of Pro-Life Virginia, runs a Web site called the Army of God. He has praised Roeder’s actions and calls him a “true American hero.”

“If Reformation Lutheran Church had done its job and brought George Tiller to repentance, he would be alive and the babies he killed would be alive,” Spitz said in a phone interview. “But George Tiller received his just reward, and Reformation Lutheran Church is to blame for his blood, and the blood of the children he murdered is on their hands.”

Who else sees in this last condemnatory quote a not-very-covert call for a 'righteous warrior for life' to 'rise up' as 'an arm of God's holy justice' and 'smite' this church in order to 'avenge the blood of the innocents' with which Spitz has rhetorically painted the church's hands?


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