American Family Association Spokesman Fischer: Obama Wants to Give America Back to the ‘Indians’

Wingnuts • Views: 24,421

Religious right fanatic freakazoid Bryan Fischer has a new post today, ripping the cover off President Obama’s plot to give America back to the Indians.

President Obama likes the “U.N. Declaration on Rights of Indigenous Peoples.” He says it can “help reaffirm the principles that should guide our future.”

The State Department added helpfully that although the declaration is not legally binding, it “carries considerable moral and political force and complements the president’s ongoing efforts to address historical inequities faced by indigenous communities in the United States.”

This declaration - which carries”considerable moral and political force,” don’t forget - contains this little gem of a paragraph, in Article 26:

“Indigenous peoples have the right to the lands, territories and resources which they have traditionally owned, occupied or otherwise used or acquired,” and nations “shall give legal recognition and protection to these lands, territories and resources.”

In other words, President Obama wants to give the entire land mass of the United States of America back to the Indians. He wants Indian tribes to be our new overlords.

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481 comments
1 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:27:58pm

I say give them the Black Hills, at least....maybe California

2 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:29:22pm

actually - that sounds like a pretty good idea.

they can't screw it up any worse than the Europeans did :p

3 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:29:53pm
He wants Indian tribes to be our new overlords.

Siouxish Bankers rule world!

4 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:30:29pm

re: #2 wozzablog

actually - that sounds like a pretty good idea.

they can't screw it up any worse than the Europeans did :p

At least it would legalize gambling.

5 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:31:32pm

Fischer, you fucking idiot.

6 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:32:52pm

Who in American history has been so thoroughly screwed than the Native American?

7 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:34:30pm

do you think BO can actually swing it?....tough call

8 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:34:34pm

Evening lizards!

9 avanti  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:35:10pm

We stole it fair and square, but if they want to pay for any improvements, must us a offer./ Seriously , I'm glad that the "Manifest Destiny" concept is mostly history today.

10 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:35:20pm

re: #6 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who in American history has been so thoroughly screwed than the Native American?

the Cleveland Browns

11 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:35:40pm

re: #6 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who in American history has been so thoroughly screwed than the Native American?

White males?

Oops, had my Bryan Fischer mode engaged for a minute.

12 webevintage  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:36:09pm

I thought he was giving it all to blacks because of slavery....
/

I can't keep up with the haters.

13 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:37:07pm

Love the photo of that dude. He looks like the arch villain in an 80's sci-fi b-movie.

In other words, President Obama wants to give the entire land mass of the United States of America back to the Indians. He wants Indian tribes to be our new overlords.

How do you get there from here? Never mind, just keep plucking shit out of thin air. Typical of goons like yourself, Mr. Fischer.

14 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:37:30pm

Barack Obama....
the Secret Seminole

15 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:38:13pm

re: #9 avanti

We stole it fair and square, but if they want to pay for any improvements, must us a offer./ Seriously , I'm glad that the "Manifest Destiny" concept is mostly history today.

only because it's been fulfilled, I'd venture

16 ozbloke  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:38:29pm

Can I just say, 'oh FFS'.

17 avanti  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:38:56pm

re: #6 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who in American history has been so thoroughly screwed than the Native American?

Hawaiians ? "While they had our eyes looking toward the heavens, they stole the land from beneath our feet"

18 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:40:50pm

The Bush administration rejected this proposal in 2007, on the common sense grounds that it would give a sub-national group veto power over the laws enacted by a democratic legislature.

yes, exactly...

19 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:40:57pm

I expect Federal troops to begin displacing the vast majority of illegal squatters on Indian land immeadiately.

I welcome our new Native American Overlords.

20 avanti  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:41:06pm

re: #15 albusteve

only because it's been fulfilled, I'd venture

True enough, all the looting has been done. Once the middle east runs out of oil, they'll have to go back to selling figs.

21 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:41:11pm

re: #14 albusteve

Barack Obama...
the Secret Seminole

No fucking way. I have a photo of him w/Tebow.

22 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:42:32pm

This guy is completely off base.

23 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:42:34pm

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I expect Federal troops to begin displacing the vast majority of illegal squatters on Indian land immeadiately.

I welcome our new Native American Overlords.

buffalo inside the Chicago Loop!

24 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:43:03pm

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I expect Federal troops to begin displacing the vast majority of illegal squatters on Indian land immeadiately.

I welcome our new Native American Overlords.

Apocalypto!

25 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:43:26pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Apocalypto!

lofuckingl

26 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:44:21pm

Well I, for one, welcome our new indigenous overlords.

27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:44:47pm

re: #17 avanti

Hawaiians ? "While they had our eyes looking toward the heavens, they stole the land from beneath our feet"

Yeah. But they still get to live in Hawaii.

(And they're Native Americans)

28 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:44:56pm

re: #6 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who in American history has been so thoroughly screwed than the Native American?

And then had to put up with so many people saying they don't want to have to feel guilty about it?

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:46:03pm

re: #13 Slumbering Behemoth

Love the photo of that dude. He looks like the arch villain in an 80's sci-fi b-movie.

How do you get there from here? Never mind, just keep plucking shit out of thin air. Typical of goons like yourself, Mr. Fischer.

They tend to assume that these lofty-minded UN resolutions will be immediately enforced as law in the United States. Recalls the whole anti-child abuse law that they flipped out over because people would be arrested for spanking their kids.

30 jaunte  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:46:04pm

Fischer's mind has now been stretched to a sublime new absurdity, and
can never go back to its old, merely bigoted dimensions.

31 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:47:46pm

OT: Hot air finally has a post up about Republicans blocking the 9-11 responders bill.
The readers seem to think it's a great idea and Shep Smith is a dick for bringing this up.

32 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:47:51pm

OMG, if we break the rules of this UN mandate, why, why they'll send us a strongly worded letter. RUN!
///

33 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:47:57pm

Johnny Cash - The Ballad Of Ira Hayes

34 Virginia Plain  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:48:04pm

re: #30 jaunte

Fischer's mind has now been stretched to a sublime new absurdity, and
can never go back to its old, merely bigoted dimensions.

The brain displays the amazing ability of plasticity, in most people. Fischer must be one of the few exceptions.

35 Wozza Matter?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:48:50pm

ok, really, now, g'night

36 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:49:01pm

We may have a problem here. What if the Native Americans don't want it? How are we gonna pay the bills?
/

37 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:49:20pm

re: #33 NJDhockeyfan

Johnny Cash - The Ballad Of Ira Hayes


[Video]

sad story....a top shelf Marine, used up by the feds and tossed away

38 avanti  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:50:11pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

OT: Hot air finally has a post up about Republicans blocking the 9-11 responders bill.
The readers seem to think it's a great idea and Shep Smith is a dick for bringing this up.

I just noticed that. It's a different crowd over there.

39 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:50:26pm

re: #36 Slumbering Behemoth

We may have a problem here. What if the Native Americans don't want it? How are we gonna pay the bills?
/

open more of these....
[Link: www.buffalothunderresort.com...]

40 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:50:57pm

Evening Lizards. Just dropped by to see what was going on and saw this post.

What a crock. So, what Tribe gets what parcels of land? While I can't name Tribes, I do recall as this Country was settled and the indigenous population was forced to move West, they in turn took over land belonging to other Tribes. So who exactly is going to get what under this plan? This idiot doesn't even have a clue. But then again, neither do I some days. %-)

41 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:51:10pm

I love Fischer. Comedy like this just doesn't occur every day.

Fischer's nightmare. A homosexual Native American who wins the Medal of Honor while serving as a conscientious objector.

42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:51:41pm

re: #33 NJDhockeyfan

Excellent.

43 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:51:49pm

re: #39 albusteve

Looks like a fun place to lose some money. I think I'll stick with Vegas, though. Free booze, 24/7. Gotta love it.

44 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:51:52pm

re: #38 avanti

I just noticed that. It's a different crowd over there.

They're even pissed at Allahpundit for saying that it might be a great idea but might produce bad publicity.

45 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:53:32pm

re: #43 Slumbering Behemoth

Looks like a fun place to lose some money. I think I'll stick with Vegas, though. Free booze, 24/7. Gotta love it.

this place is world class...with heart stopping scenery out and about

46 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:53:44pm

re: #42 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Excellent.

"The Ballad Of Ira Hayes"

Ira Hayes,
Ira Hayes

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian
Nor the Marine that went to war

Gather round me people
There's a story I would tell
About a brave young Indian
You should remember well
From the land of the Pima Indian
A proud and noble band
Who farmed the Phoenix valley
In Arizona land

Down the ditches of thousand years
The waters grew Ira's peoples' crops
'Till the white man stole the water rights
And the sparklin' water stopped

Now Ira's folks were hungry
And their land grew crops of weeds
When war came, Ira volunteered
And forgot the white man's greed

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian
Nor the Marine that went to war

There they battled up Iwo Jima hill,
Two hundred and fifty men
But only twenty-seven lived
To walk back down again

And when the fight was over
And Old Glory raised
Among the men who held it high
Was the Indian, Ira Hayes

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian
Nor the Marine that went to war

Ira Hayes returned a hero
Celebrated through the land
He was wined and speeched and honored;
Everybody shook his hand

But he was just a Pima Indian
No water, no home, no chance
At home nobody cared what Ira'd done
And when did the Indians dance

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian
Nor the Marine that went to war

Then Ira started drinkin' hard;
Jail was often his home
They'd let him raise the flag and lower it
Like you'd throw a dog a bone!

He died drunk early one mornin'
Alone in the land he fought to save
Two inches of water in a lonely ditch
Was a grave for Ira Hayes

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian
Nor the Marine that went to war

Yeah, call him drunken Ira Hayes
But his land is just as dry
And his ghost is lyin' thirsty
In the ditch where Ira died

47 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:55:30pm

re: #43 Slumbering Behemoth

Looks like a fun place to lose some money. I think I'll stick with Vegas, though. Free booze, 24/7. Gotta love it.

You're right.... no contest.....

The only thing the local Indian casinos have over Vegas is that they're close.

48 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:56:59pm

On Rachel Maddow's show, Michael Moore is making the case that the United States should not be allowed to have any secrets.

49 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:57:22pm

re: #47 Mr Pancakes

You're right... no contest...

The only thing the local Indian casinos have over Vegas is that they're close.

so you've visited Buffalo Thunder or Sandia Resort?....so why would anybody go to Vegas for free booze?

50 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:58:01pm

re: #48 Charles

On Rachel Maddow's show, Michael Moore is making the case that the United States should not be allowed to have any secrets.

Is she putting up with his nonsense?

51 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:58:52pm

re: #48 Charles

On Rachel Maddow's show, Michael Moore is making the case that the United States should not be allowed to have any secrets.

What a first class douchebag. He should ask his friends in Cuba & Venezuela to give up their secrets as well.

52 dragonfire1981  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:58:56pm

re: #22 PhillyPretzel

This guy is completely off base.

I'd say about three towns over in a different stadium.

It's funny, whenever I see that picture of Fischer on LGF I think he looks like some maniacal villain from an old Star Trek episode.

That, and the guy is a major league idiot.

53 Charles Johnson  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:59:03pm

re: #50 Killgore Trout

Is she putting up with his nonsense?

Actually not -- she's pushing back.

54 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:59:04pm

re: #5 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Fischer, you fucking idiot.

Bryan Fischer: Going from Wingnutville to Loonytown, with a stop-off at Dinesh D'Souza.

55 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:59:28pm

re: #53 Charles

Actually not -- she's pushing back.

Good for her.

56 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 6:59:37pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

They're even pissed at Allahpundit for saying that it might be a great idea but might produce bad publicity.

They'd shit on AP if he said the sky was blue. I'm surprised he still works there, for a lot of reasons.

57 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:00:18pm

Bryan Fischer: Homosexuals behind Wikileaks

The out-of-the-mainstream media has collaboratively kept the focus on the sex criminal, Julian Assange, and off the guy who has committed actual treason, the homosexual soldier Bradley Manning, who sold out his country in what may turn out to be fit of gay pique.

Manning was, at a minimum, seriously confused about his sexuality, and at worst, launched the WikiLeaks campaign to strike back at the military for its “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy, which he vehemently opposed.

Regardless, he is a one-man argument for keeping open homosexuals from serving in the military in the first place. If the 1993 law - which flatly prohibits homosexuals from a place in the armed services - had been followed, there would be no PFC Bradley Manning and no WikiLeaks.

Cookoo.

58 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:01:08pm

re: #49 albusteve

so you've visited Buffalo Thunder or Sandia Resort?...so why would anybody go to Vegas for free booze?

I see we have not met. Hi, I'm Slumbering, and I'm an alcoholic professional drunk.
/

59 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:02:31pm

re: #56 Slumbering Behemoth

They'd shit on AP if he said the sky was blue. I'm surprised he still works there, for a lot of reasons.

The comments are very telling. John Stewart was right about the right's claim to 9-11 is over. The wingnuts over there don't want 9-11 as a political issue anymore. Their fantasies about the Constitution and anything labeled "fiscal responsibility" have superseded everything else.

60 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:03:12pm

re: #48 Charles

On Rachel Maddow's show, Michael Moore is making the case that the United States should not be allowed to have any secrets.

That should make an interesting post. So who does he think should have the right to State Secrets? The Middle East and/or anyone who is against U.S.?

Asshole.

61 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:03:43pm

re: #49 albusteve

so you've visited Buffalo Thunder or Sandia Resort?...so why would anybody go to Vegas for free booze?

Steve.... it's a culture thing man....... nothing like pulling into Veags late at night blasting Frank Sinatra's "Luck be a Lady Tonight". We have some really nice Indian casinos here too...... we have around 15.... one is a Harrah's property.

62 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:04:05pm

re: #27 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Yeah. But they still get to live in Hawaii.

(And they're Native Americans)

No, Polynesians.

63 Ojoe  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:05:03pm

We could all open casinos?

/

64 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:06:02pm

re: #60 Bubblehead II

That should make an interesting post. So who does he think should have the right to State Secrets? The Middle East and/or anyone who is against U.S.?

Asshole.

In soviet Russia, State keeps you secret.

/Moore's just pining for the good ole days when his favorite team was still an international player

65 PhillyPretzel  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:06:16pm

Good Night to my fellow Lizards.

66 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:06:30pm

re: #48 Charles

On Rachel Maddow's show, Michael Moore is making the case that the United States should not be allowed to have any secrets.

What a complete and utter nitwit.

67 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:07:14pm

re: #40 Bubblehead II

Evening Lizards. Just dropped by to see what was going on and saw this post.

What a crock. So, what Tribe gets what parcels of land? While I can't name Tribes, I do recall as this Country was settled and the indigenous population was forced to move West, they in turn took over land belonging to other Tribes. So who exactly is going to get what under this plan? This idiot doesn't even have a clue. But then again, neither do I some days. %-)

The Lytton Band owns the casino down the road from me, so I assume they'd get the area. They're Pomo.

68 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:07:34pm

Has there ever been a UN declaration which had the force of law--or any actual effect whatsoever--inside the US?

69 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:07:47pm

re: #61 Mr Pancakes

... nothing like pulling into Veags late at night blasting Frank Sinatra's "Luck be a Lady Tonight".

So you're that asshole?
/:P

70 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:08:09pm

re: #69 Slumbering Behemoth

So you're that asshole?
/:P

I am

71 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:08:16pm

re: #68 EmmmieG

Has there ever been a UN declaration which had the force of law--or any actual effect whatsoever--inside the US?

Korean War ceasefire

72 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:08:27pm
73 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:08:41pm

re: #57 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer: Homosexuals behind Wikileaks

Cookoo.

I think Aldrich Ames was straight. Clearly, no straight man should ever be allowed to work for the CIA again.

74 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:09:48pm

OT

Hannah Spearritt is hot.

That is all.

75 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:10:28pm

re: #69 Slumbering Behemoth

So you're that asshole?
/:P

I should hate Vegas seeing how I married my ex wife there for $35 bucks....... at midnight. Had the choice of either day and still couldn't remember it.

76 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:10:32pm

10 bucks says Fischer didn't even bother reading the declaration and of course neither will his readers.

Again, for the paranoids like Fischer this is a declaration and not rule of law. We are also covered by the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution.

If Fischer did bother to read the declaration or if he was even being honest he would have at least pointed this out:

Article 46

1. Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, people, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act contrary to the Charter of the United Nations or construed as authorizing or encouraging any action which would dismember or impair, totally or in part, the territorial integrity or political unity of sovereign and independent States.

2. In the exercise of the rights enunciated in the present Declaration, human rights and fundamental freedoms of all shall be respected. The exercise of the rights set forth in this Declaration shall be subject only to such limitations as are determined by law, and in accordance with international human rights obligations. Any such limitations shall be non-discriminatory and strictly necessary solely for the purpose of securing due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and for meeting the just and most compelling requirements of a democratic society.

3. The provisions set forth in this Declaration shall be interpreted in accordance with the principles of justice, democracy, respect for human rights, equality, non-discrimination, good governance and good faith.

From United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

77 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:11:28pm

re: #57 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Bryan Fischer: Homosexuals behind Wikileaks

Cookoo.

If there were no more homosexuals, all the world's problems would just magically disappear, or so goes the thinking with bigoted goons like that douche.

78 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:13:01pm

re: #77 Slumbering Behemoth

If there were no more homosexuals, all the world's problems would just magically disappear, or so goes the thinking with bigoted goons like that douche.

If they're were no more Bryan Fischers, I think the rest of us would be a hell of a lot better off.

79 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:13:31pm

re: #36 Slumbering Behemoth

We may have a problem here. What if the Native Americans don't want it? How are we gonna pay the bills?
/

We could try opening a few casinos. ?

80 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:13:56pm

re: #6 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Who in American history has been so thoroughly screwed than the Native American?

The Ainu of Japan. The various hill tribal peoples of China. The various peoples all through history who have been wiped out either utterly, or to so tiny a remnant as to be invisible.

Native Americans, by contrast, have a considerable presence with recognized territories and distinct demographics, together with a meaningful fraction of the genome of America-at-large. The majority of us have some Indian ancestry.

81 webevintage  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:14:43pm

re: #48 Charles

On Rachel Maddow's show, Michael Moore is making the case that the United States should not be allowed to have any secrets.

Racheal:
Is there...Should gov'ts be allowed to keep anything secret...
MM:
Yes, absolutely but the problem with us is that we have behaved very badly in the last decade and we went to war essentially based on a group of lies because of that and because of the calamity that we cost, the deaths that we are responsible, both of our own soldiers and the Iraqis, I think that if I were king of the world I would say "You know what US we love you, you're great, but you have misbehaved here and we've got to turn the lights on now and we have to pay attention to what you are up too" so I think the lights have to stay on us for awhile because the people in power can't be trusted based on what they have done in the last decade.

82 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:14:54pm
83 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:15:55pm

re: #76 Gus 802

Well, you can't go around scaring people out of their hard earned money with that, now can you.

C'mon Gus, get with the program. We've got a ton of faithful people to fleece.

84 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:15:59pm

re: #80 lostlakehiker

The Ainu of Japan. The various hill tribal peoples of China. The various peoples all through history who have been wiped out either utterly, or to so tiny a remnant as to be invisible.

Native Americans, by contrast, have a considerable presence with recognized territories and distinct demographics, together with a meaningful fraction of the genome of America-at-large. The majority of us have some Indian ancestry.

The Ainu and Chinese Hill people don't really constitute American History.

85 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:16:43pm

re: #81 webevintage

He'll never recover from the Bush years. He'll be stuck there for the rest of his life.

86 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:17:12pm

The 'War on Christmas' spotted near the Korean DMZ...

North Korea threatens to attack South over Christmas lights

Seasonal goodwill is in short supply on the divided Korean peninsula, where both sides are again at potentially deadly loggerheads – over a Christmas tree.

North Korea's military is reportedly preparing to shoot down a floodlit tower decorated with Christmas lights which overlooks the border near the South's capital, Seoul – home to millions of Christians.

The provincial governor, Kim Moon-soo, has warned that firing at the tree would be a reckless and "provocative" act. The South's Defence Minister was more blunt. "We'll retaliate decisively to take out the source of any shelling," Kim Kwan-jin told parliament yesterday. South Korea's Yonhap news agency said fighter jets were on standby, ready to strike back.

Standing 100ft tall, topped off with a cross and decorated with 100,000 light bulbs, the tower can be seen for miles inside the impoverished Stalinist backwater, where electricity cuts are common and ageing power plants generate a fraction of the South's power output. Pyongyang scoffs at Seoul's claims that its purpose is religious, not political, and said it is psychological warfare.

87 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:17:14pm

re: #76 Gus 802

10 bucks says Fischer didn't even bother reading the declaration and of course neither will his readers.

Again, for the paranoids like Fischer this is a declaration and not rule of law. We are also covered by the Supremacy Clause of the Constitution.

If Fischer did bother to read the declaration or if he was even being honest he would have at least pointed this out:

From United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Why would e read it? He's not trying to make a point, he's tooting on his dog whistle.

88 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:18:08pm

re: #81 webevintage

Doesn't he own stock in Haliburton or whatever?

89 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:18:09pm

re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Ainu and Chinese Hill people don't really constitute American History.

How bout the Oompa-Loompas ?

90 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:18:21pm

re: #81 webevintage

so I think the lights have to stay on us for awhile because the people in power can't be trusted based on what they have done in the last decade.

In Mooreworld Bush was always President, and still is.

91 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:18:22pm

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

Why would e read it? He's not trying to make a point, he's tooting on his dog whistle.

I was sitting here thinking...

"What's he worried about? It's just another strongly worded letter."

//

92 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:19:11pm

re: #86 NJDhockeyfan

The 'War on Christmas' spotted near the Korean DMZ...

North Korea threatens to attack South over Christmas lights

Lil' Kim doesn't want to have his failures waved in his face. Someone call the WAAAmbulance.

93 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:19:13pm

re: #88 Slumbering Behemoth

Doesn't he own stock in Haliburton or whatever?

Burger King I think it was

94 Talking Point Detective  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:19:54pm

Anyone know where you can get lessons in Navajo?

It always pays off to speak to your overlords in their own language.

95 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:19:59pm

re: #86 NJDhockeyfan

The 'War on Christmas' spotted near the Korean DMZ...

North Korea threatens to attack South over Christmas lights

And yet we have bloviating fat heads over here who want to completely lose their shit over the harmless phrase "Happy Holidays". Sheesh.

96 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:20:12pm

re: #89 Mr Pancakes

How bout the Oompa-Loompas ?

Vaguely European.

97 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:20:25pm

re: #86 NJDhockeyfan
*Famous WWE wrestling narrator/ emcee voice*
The Real War On Christmas is about to begin...

98 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:20:49pm

re: #81 webevintage

I thought he was at a luxury weight-loss camp in Florida. Did he escape?

99 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:21:03pm

re: #90 Rightwingconspirator

In Mooreworld Bush was always President, and still is.

his shaky relevance has been fading...gotta pick up the pace...but, like, who the hell would care what he has to say anyway....he must feel used

100 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:22:01pm

re: #94 Talking Point Detective

Anyone know where you can get lessons in Navajo?

It always pays off to speak to your overlords in their own language.

I got news for you--it's really tough.

Just ask the Japanese. They never cracked it.

101 ozbloke  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:22:18pm

re: #86 NJDhockeyfan

The 'War on Christmas' spotted near the Korean DMZ...

North Korea threatens to attack South over Christmas lights

And then there is this:

S Korea to hold largest-ever live-fire drill

The South Korean army says it will hold its largest-ever live-fire drill near the military border with the North on Thursday.

The drill, involving artillery, fighter jets and the largest number of personnel in a peace-time exercise, comes after the South's live-fire artillery exercise on Monday on Yeonpyeong island near the tensely guarded sea border.

The show of force, which will take place on the South Korean mainland, is likely to infuriate Pyongyang.

102 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:22:43pm

re: #96 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Vaguely European.

Yea.... I wasn't sure...... Willy Wonka and Charlie spoke 'merican, but the landscape looked kinda like Luxembourg or something.

103 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:22:45pm

Do not question The Church of Michael Moore©!

Olm...

//

104 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:23:01pm

re: #80 lostlakehiker

The Ainu of Japan. The various hill tribal peoples of China. The various peoples all through history who have been wiped out either utterly, or to so tiny a remnant as to be invisible.

Native Americans, by contrast, have a considerable presence with recognized territories and distinct demographics, together with a meaningful fraction of the genome of America-at-large. The majority of us have some Indian ancestry.

An estimated loss of 80% in 200 years, forced isolation, and planned poverty meant new world aboriginals have had nothing but a good time since 1492.

Nothing you said justifies the 'unique' position they hold in our culture.

105 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:23:07pm

re: #100 EmmmieG

I got news for you--it's really tough.

Just ask the Japanese. They never cracked it.

ya beat me....a great factoid

106 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:23:14pm

re: #97 Rightwingconspirator

*Famous WWE wrestling narrator/ emcee voice*
The Real War On Christmas is about to begin...

It will never beat Val Venus's WWE Christmas wish.

"Ladies, This leg is Christmas and this leg is New Years and I invite you to visit me between the Holidays.

107 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:23:27pm

Speaking of fleecing the faithful...

"Saw a send me your money" type pitch on grandma's tv the other night about how elderly people in Israel are starving and freezing and what not.

Anyone with any personal knowledge of Israel know if that's a crock or not?

108 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:24:03pm

not to worry....
Bill Richardson, Savior of the Eastern Realms

109 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:24:17pm

This organization seems to employ plenty of high functioning morons.

Besides, there aren't enough Indians to go around these days. The early Americans killed 'em off.

110 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:25:11pm

re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth

Speaking of fleecing the faithful...

"Saw a send me your money" type pitch on grandma's tv the other night about how elderly people in Israel are starving and freezing and what not.

Anyone with any personal knowledge of Israel know if that's a crock or not?

There are poor elderly people in Israel, yes. But I would look into the actual organization involved before sending them money.

111 shai_au  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:25:40pm

Muslim Harry Potter star beaten

Should I be skeptical about this? I'm a bit wary after the whole Rifqa Bary thing, in believing young girls who say that their family wants to kill them.

That being said, physical violence is a lot easier to prove than simple threats, with the bruises and all, so her claims could be very well-founded. It's hard to say until she actually appears in court, so I guess I'll just wait and see.

Pam Geller will be all over this like a rash, though.

112 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:25:58pm

re: #106 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It will never beat Val Venus's WWE Christmas wish.

"Ladies, This leg is Christmas and this leg is New Years and I invite you to visit me between the Holidays.

Those were the days. The WWE stopped running gags like that 2 years ago when Linda McMahon started thinking about the Senate run she ultimately lost.

113 Only The Lurker Knows  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:26:21pm

Night Lizards. I originally just meant to drop by and see what was going on and not start posting. If I started something, please don't think I am running away. It has been a long day and I am to bed. If you have a rebuttal to something I posted, please let me know in the morning, after I have had some sleep (and about 4 cups of coffee).

Night All. And may the Deity of YOU'RE CHOICE smile upon you.

114 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:26:43pm

re: #99 albusteve

Meh./ Fine with me. I have nothing but contempt for the reflexive America sucks crowd.

115 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:26:52pm

re: #111 shai_au

Muslim Harry Potter star beaten

Should I be skeptical about this? I'm a bit wary after the whole Rifqa Bary thing, in believing young girls who say that their family wants to kill them.

That being said, physical violence is a lot easier to prove than simple threats, with the bruises and all, so her claims could be very well-founded. It's hard to say until she actually appears in court, so I guess I'll just wait and see.

Pam Geller will be all over this like a rash, though.

It's probably real story. Sadly common.

116 webevintage  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:27:51pm

BTW this is shaping up to be a really good week on the Maddow Show, she is live at the 12th Street Y (I think) in NY and there has been some interesting interviews.
The show yesterday was great and love him or hate him I thought the one she just did with MM (Yes I do have a bit of a soft spot in my lefty heart for him) was excellent. Besides his comment about secrets she got him to state twice that if Assange raped those women he should go to prison and that the women must be heard no matter the timing of the accusations.

Time to go watch crazy Calvin on The Fashion Show...

117 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:28:15pm

re: #111 shai_au

Muslim Harry Potter star beaten

Should I be skeptical about this? I'm a bit wary after the whole Rifqa Bary thing, in believing young girls who say that their family wants to kill them.

That being said, physical violence is a lot easier to prove than simple threats, with the bruises and all, so her claims could be very well-founded. It's hard to say until she actually appears in court, so I guess I'll just wait and see.

Pam Geller will be all over this like a rash, though.

Sadly, it's almost certainly true. That sort of attack does happen in the UK at times.

118 sizzleRI  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:28:43pm

re: #85 Killgore Trout

He'll never recover from the Bush years. He'll be stuck there for the rest of his life.

Its the last time he mattered. Hard to let that go.

119 shai_au  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:29:30pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

It's probably real story. Sadly common.

Yeah, my inclination is to believe her until I find a reason not to.

I remember about a year ago in Australia, some Punjabi Indian bloke was stabbed repeatedly, doused in petrol and set on fire, all over a "family dispute" in his community. Scary stuff.

120 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:29:42pm

re: #114 Rightwingconspirator

Meh./ Fine with me. I have nothing but contempt for the reflexive America sucks crowd.

How about the 'no country is perfect' crowd? Or the 'all countries need improvement' crowd?

121 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:30:25pm

re: #114 Rightwingconspirator

Meh./ Fine with me. I have nothing but contempt for the reflexive America sucks crowd.

sadly, it's another money maker these days...and so far as I know, he never addressed the high cost of union labor and the criminal element that helped shut down Flint....it's just more crap fer sale

122 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:30:53pm

re: #109 eclectic infidel

This organization seems to employ plenty of high functioning morons.

Besides, there aren't enough Indians to go around these days. The early Americans killed 'em off.

If you think 4.1 million is not so many.

[Link: www.infoplease.com...]

That's the 2000 census on the Tribes.

123 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:31:03pm

re: #120 b_sharp

No problem there. Reasonable makes all the difference from reflexive.

124 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:32:42pm

re: #121 albusteve
If Michael Moore got a swollen lip I'd diagnose it as a hemorrhoid.

125 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:33:01pm

re: #46 NJDhockeyfan

"The Ballad Of Ira Hayes"

Ira Hayes,
Ira Hayes

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian
Nor the Marine that went to war

Gather round me people
There's a story I would tell
About a brave young Indian
You should remember well
From the land of the Pima Indian
A proud and noble band
Who farmed the Phoenix valley
In Arizona land

Down the ditches of thousand years
The waters grew Ira's peoples' crops
'Till the white man stole the water rights
And the sparklin' water stopped

Now Ira's folks were hungry
And their land grew crops of weeds
When war came, Ira volunteered
And forgot the white man's greed

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian
Nor the Marine that went to war

There they battled up Iwo Jima hill,
Two hundred and fifty men
But only twenty-seven lived
To walk back down again

And when the fight was over
And Old Glory raised
Among the men who held it high
Was the Indian, Ira Hayes

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian
Nor the Marine that went to war

Ira Hayes returned a hero
Celebrated through the land
He was wined and speeched and honored;
Everybody shook his hand

But he was just a Pima Indian
No water, no home, no chance
At home nobody cared what Ira'd done
And when did the Indians dance

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian
Nor the Marine that went to war

Then Ira started drinkin' hard;
Jail was often his home
They'd let him raise the flag and lower it
Like you'd throw a dog a bone!

He died drunk early one mornin'
Alone in the land he fought to save
Two inches of water in a lonely ditch
Was a grave for Ira Hayes

Call him drunken Ira Hayes
He won't answer anymore
Not the whiskey drinkin' Indian
Nor the Marine that went to war

Yeah, call him drunken Ira Hayes
But his land is just as dry
And his ghost is lyin' thirsty
In the ditch where Ira died

Alcohol is possible in moderation for many of us. For others, it's not. It might as well be heroin; it's as addictive and potent. It's not easy to be a teetotaler in America, it was harder still back then.

126 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:33:19pm

re: #124 Rightwingconspirator

If Michael Moore got a swollen lip I'd diagnose it as a hemorrhoid.

LOL!
DRINK!

127 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:34:54pm

re: #84 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The Ainu and Chinese Hill people don't really constitute American History.

Yeah, I missed that qualification.

I know: White plantation owners from Northern Virginia who fought as leaders of the Army of Northern Virginia.

///

128 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:35:23pm

re: #122 marjoriemoon

If you think 4.1 million is not so many.

[Link: www.infoplease.com...]

That's the 2000 census on the Tribes.

less than 20k Comanche...wow, the largest of all western tribes, the first to domesticate the horse, and one of the most colorful, historic tribes of all....kinda sad

129 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:35:39pm

re: #110 SanFranciscoZionist

There are poor elderly people in Israel, yes. But I would look into the actual organization involved before sending them money.

I treat any such thing on these televangelist channels that my grandma watches with extreme skepticism. One of those assholes conned her into buying pomegranate juice as a cure for Alzheimer's.

130 Sheila Broflovski  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:36:24pm

re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth

Speaking of fleecing the faithful...

"Saw a send me your money" type pitch on grandma's tv the other night about how elderly people in Israel are starving and freezing and what not.

Anyone with any personal knowledge of Israel know if that's a crock or not?

There are elderly poor in Israel, but no one is literally starving.

131 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:37:10pm

re: #121 albusteve

sadly, it's another money maker these days...and so far as I know, he never addressed the high cost of union labor and the criminal element that helped shut down Flint...it's just more crap fer sale

Yes. Clearly Flint, Michigan's decline had nothing to do with General Motors management, disinvestment, "white flight", the oil crisis of the 70s, outsourcing, and the lack of factory modernization. It was just the unions and the criminal element.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:38:00pm

re: #111 shai_au

Muslim Harry Potter star beaten

Should I be skeptical about this? I'm a bit wary after the whole Rifqa Bary thing, in believing young girls who say that their family wants to kill them.

That being said, physical violence is a lot easier to prove than simple threats, with the bruises and all, so her claims could be very well-founded. It's hard to say until she actually appears in court, so I guess I'll just wait and see.

Pam Geller will be all over this like a rash, though.

This seems different from the Bary case--it actually went to court, it sounds realistic, et al.

Poor kid. I would have thought a family that was all right with their daughter acting in films would be, if not open to intermarriage, at least not crazy enough for death threats.

133 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:38:16pm

re: #125 lostlakehiker

the govt knew Hayes was sick...his market value selling bonds was more important than helping him with his problem

134 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:38:29pm

re: #131 Gus 802

Wait a sec., that is not what he said.

135 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:38:55pm

re: #134 Rightwingconspirator

Wait a sec., that is not what he said.

Oh relax.

136 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:39:54pm

My wife had two uncles who served in the second war. They died several years ago and were buried in their uniforms along with their medals.

Aboriginals serving in WWII got none of the benefits non aboriginals did, but they were given transport to their reserves so they could be forgotten.

It wasn't until a couple of years ago that they were given recognition for their contributions.

137 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:40:03pm

Hot Air is now slamming Huckabee for supporting the Child Nutrition bill. It's been a while since I've payed attention much over there it seems they've become even more extreme since I last visited.

138 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:40:32pm

re: #131 Gus 802

Yes. Clearly Flint, Michigan's decline had nothing to do with General Motors management, disinvestment, "white flight", the oil crisis of the 70s, outsourcing, and the lack of factory modernization. It was just the unions and the criminal element.

I think my point is, he never covered the story in it's entirety....he left out that key point

139 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:40:37pm

re: #136 b_sharp

My wife had two uncles who served in the second war. They died several years ago and were buried in their uniforms along with their medals.

Aboriginals serving in WWII got none of the benefits non aboriginals did, but they were given transport to their reserves so they could be forgotten.

It wasn't until a couple of years ago that they were given recognition for their contributions.

Are you Australian, or are you referring to an actual Indian tribe?

140 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:41:57pm

re: #139 EmmmieG

Are you Australian, or are you referring to an actual Indian tribe?

My wife is Cree-Ojibwa.

141 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:42:20pm

re: #139 EmmmieG

Are you Australian, or are you referring to an actual Indian tribe?

Canadian, I think.

142 shai_au  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:42:23pm

re: #132 SanFranciscoZionist

This seems different from the Bary case--it actually went to court, it sounds realistic, et al.

Poor kid. I would have thought a family that was all right with their daughter acting in films would be, if not open to intermarriage, at least not crazy enough for death threats.

Yes, I'm leaning towards believing her now.

Unfortunately, I think reading the bile spewing from Geller et al. has damaged the calibration of my bullshit detector. :(

143 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:43:31pm

re: #128 albusteve

less than 20k Comanche...wow, the largest of all western tribes, the first to domesticate the horse, and one of the most colorful, historic tribes of all...kinda sad

Well, the 2010 Census site is pretty difficult to navigate, or at least I'm having trouble finding that info, but I'm sure it's there. I'm still looking for it.

The tribes have been growing steadily each year, but yes, they aren't up to the same populations as their glory days.

144 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:44:16pm

re: #140 b_sharp

My wife is Cree-Ojibwa.

Thanks. I get confused, because to me an "aborigine" is an Australian aborigine. If I mean one from the Americas, I prefer to use the tribal name.*

*Except for the Quiluete, who are now officially The Luckiest Tribe in the Northwest.

145 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:44:26pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Hot Air is now slamming Huckabee for supporting the Child Nutrition bill. It's been a while since I've payed attention much over there it seems they've become even more extreme since I last visited.

They'd denounce Jesus Christ himself if he spoke favorably of anything this administration is doing.

146 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:44:38pm
147 freetoken  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:44:39pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Yeah, checked them out, for the first time in a week or so, just this afternoon, to see how they were handling the Barbour mess. The comments have devolved into what appears to be the 5th grade version of slinging poo (white grievance). The few who are repelled by Barbour seem like desperate voices to get above the mess.

I can't see how they will ever get any better over there, or any of the Salem outlets (Townhall etc.) either.

When they build their sites on figuring out new ways to hate, or new targets for old hate, all they're going to is scrap the bottom of the internet barrel.

148 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:45:14pm

re: #131 Gus 802

Yes. Clearly Flint, Michigan's decline had nothing to do with General Motors management, disinvestment, "white flight", the oil crisis of the 70s, outsourcing, and the lack of factory modernization. It was just the unions and the criminal element.

All those played a role. The biggest error of all, though was a shared failure by both GM and the UAW: Neither was willing to look honestly at changing circumstances and adjust. Instead both looked by to the 20 years after WWII when things were at their best. What they failed to understand (and what Michael Moore does not say) is that that "golden age" for the American auto industry was the result of America's almost unique place after the Second World War. The auto industries of continental Europe and Japan had been destroyed and the US was the biggest player left in the market (the UK was number 2 and Britain's auto industry made the same mistake). The dominance America enjoyed was unsustainable in the long run, but no one wanted to admit that and prepare for more difficult and competative times. Thus when Japan finally was ready to enter the US market, GM was caught flat-footed and got hammered.

149 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:45:36pm

re: #138 albusteve

I think my point is, he never covered the story in it's entirety...he left out that key point

I was thinking outside of the movie, which I saw when it was first released. There were a combination of factors that led to the decline of Flint. Yes, the UAW played a role and Mr. Moore glanced that over but he also glanced over a number of issues leading to the decline of Flint. Flint reached a peak in 1960 and that was the year the city began its decline.

150 avanti  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:45:37pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Hot Air is now slamming Huckabee for supporting the Child Nutrition bill. It's been a while since I've payed attention much over there it seems they've become even more extreme since I last visited.

You just don't get it./ Banning junk food from schools leads to banning it within a mile of schools, than making it illegal to sell it to minors, than Twinkie's are banned for everyone. Next, we'll be locked up if we're caught with a cup cake./

151 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:45:45pm

re: #146 Killgore Trout

Michael Moore on Wikileaks on Maddow

Since when did she start doing her show with an auditorium full of people?

152 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:46:04pm

If I were 13 again.
You would kill me for playing this over & over.
I don't know why, but it meant a lot to me.

153 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:46:43pm

re: #143 marjoriemoon

Well, the 2010 Census site is pretty difficult to navigate, or at least I'm having trouble finding that info, but I'm sure it's there. I'm still looking for it.

The tribes have been growing steadily each year, but yes, they aren't up to the same populations as their glory days.

it's off your population link.....but, they were the largest, turn of the 19th century

154 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:47:10pm

re: #151 Killgore Trout

Since when did she start doing her show with an auditorium full of people?

I'm also not a fan of the jokes and applause lines. Is this her new format?

155 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:47:18pm

re: #130 Alouette

There are elderly poor in Israel, but no one is literally starving.

Well there is poverty in Israel. There are a lot of orphans as well. I don't know the numbers, but there's many programs to feed the hungry. Here is an example of one.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]


About Meir Panim: Since 2000, Meir Panim Relief Centers has been the largest food and social services conduit of its kind, providing both immediate and long-term dignified relief to thousands of needy individuals daily via its network of 30 relief centers. Meir Panim’s free restaurants serve thousands of hot, nutritious meals daily in fourteen cities throughout Israel. In addition, packaged meals are delivered to needy schoolchildren, the homebound, elderly and disabled, including hundreds of Holocaust survivors.
156 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:47:35pm

re: #145 Slumbering Behemoth

They'd denounce Jesus Christ himself if he spoke favorably of anything this administration is doing.

Which I think is probably why some cling so desperately to that "Sekrit Muslin" crap.

If they had to grant that Obama was a Christian, the would be faced with having to denounce their own faith, they hate the guy that much.

157 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:47:35pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

Truth spoken right there.

158 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:47:47pm

re: #137 Killgore Trout

Hot Air is now slamming Huckabee for supporting the Child Nutrition bill. It's been a while since I've payed attention much over there it seems they've become even more extreme since I last visited.

Huckabee has always made nutrition a big issue since his successful weight loss. His decision to make common cause with the Obamas on this issue is not a surprise. The wingnuts are just being stupid. They'll only succeed in hurting them selves by yelling about that bill.

159 freetoken  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:48:20pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

The biggest error of all, though was a shared failure by both GM and the UAW: Neither was willing to look honestly at changing circumstances and adjust.

Mutually reinforcing inter-dependence between the car (and supplier) companies, the unions, and the state and federal government really seems to have wrought the disaster that is Detroit. It has to be the textbook case of intransigence in the shadow of a changing world.

160 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:49:22pm

re: #149 Gus 802

I was thinking outside of the movie, which I saw when it was first released. There were a combination of factors that led to the decline of Flint. Yes, the UAW played a role and Mr. Moore glanced that over but he also glanced over a number of issues leading to the decline of Flint. Flint reached a peak in 1960 and that was the year the city began its decline.

no question, a complex socio-ecomonic story which probably could never be repeated

161 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:49:28pm

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

All those played a role. The biggest error of all, though was a shared failure by both GM and the UAW: Neither was willing to look honestly at changing circumstances and adjust. Instead both looked by to the 20 years after WWII when things were at their best. What they failed to understand (and what Michael Moore does not say) is that that "golden age" for the American auto industry was the result of America's almost unique place after the Second World War. The auto industries of continental Europe and Japan had been destroyed and the US was the biggest player left in the market (the UK was number 2 and Britain's auto industry made the same mistake). The dominance America enjoyed was unsustainable in the long run, but no one wanted to admit that and prepare for more difficult and competative times. Thus when Japan finally was ready to enter the US market, GM was caught flat-footed and got hammered.

I think the design factor played a big role. It was the decline of US dominance in the automobile market and their refusal to acknowledge change in the market and to provide higher mileage vehicles. Instead they continued to produce dinosaurs with poor mileage even through the 1970s. GM's only contribution to this was the poorly design and constructed Vega. GM continued this practice even to the present day. This while Ford stayed ahead of the curve and outperformed GM who in the end had to be saved by the bailout.

162 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:50:14pm

re: #152 Floral Giraffe

If I were 13 again.
You would kill me for playing this over & over.
I don't know why, but it meant a lot to me.

[Video]

I'm tempted to do mean things to you just for linking it.
/kidding of course.

163 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:50:27pm

re: #144 EmmmieG

Thanks. I get confused, because to me an "aborigine" is an Australian aborigine. If I mean one from the Americas, I prefer to use the tribal name.*

*Except for the Quiluete, who are now officially The Luckiest Tribe in the Northwest.

Indigenous is probably a better term (I think what he meant).

164 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:50:41pm

Just was talking with a friend from Michigan. Said the economic situation is AWFUL. Something like 25% unemployment? Roads are turning to gravel because there is no money to repave them.

165 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:50:44pm

re: #161 Gus 802

I think the design factor played a big role. It was the decline of US dominance in the automobile market and their refusal to acknowledge change in the market and to provide higher mileage vehicles. Instead they continued to produce dinosaurs with poor mileage even through the 1970s. GM's only contribution to this was the poorly design and constructed Vega. GM continued this practice even to the present day. This while Ford stayed ahead of the curve and outperformed GM who in the end had to be saved by the bailout.

China isn't a player yet in the car market........ just wait till they are.

166 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:51:40pm

re: #144 EmmmieG

Thanks. I get confused, because to me an "aborigine" is an Australian aborigine. If I mean one from the Americas, I prefer to use the tribal name.*

*Except for the Quiluete, who are now officially The Luckiest Tribe in the Northwest.

There are too many different nations (we don't call them tribes) and many of the bands (no longer called reserves) have more than one 'tribe'. Even language groups such as Lakota, Dakota and Nakota can be mixed on one band.

It's easier just to say aboriginals, (as opposed to aborigines) or maybe North American aboriginals. I will use nation name such as Cree if I know it for a given band.

167 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:52:20pm

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

Huckabee has always made nutrition a big issue since his successful weight loss. His decision to make common cause with the Obamas on this issue is not a surprise. The wingnuts are just being stupid. They'll only succeed in hurting them selves by yelling about that bill.

Seriously. When did healthy food and good nutrition for children turn into a bad thing? What kind of moron goes Full Mental Partisan over something like that?

168 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:52:32pm

re: #165 Mr Pancakes

China isn't a player yet in the car market... just wait till they are.

then, invest in body bags

169 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:52:36pm

re: #164 ggt

Just was talking with a friend from Michigan. Said the economic situation is AWFUL. Something like 25% unemployment? Roads are turning to gravel because there is no money to repave them.

Damn, that's terrible.

170 freetoken  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:52:37pm

re: #162 Slumbering Behemoth

If I remember correctly, it wasn't until Chrysler was going belly up and Iacocca stepped up to the plate, and the government bailed out Chrysler, that the Detroit establishment began to get a clue that they really had to change. By then they were a couple of decades behind the Asian and European makers who were doing more with less.

171 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:53:46pm

re: #168 albusteve

then, invest in body bags

That's why they aren't a player yet...... but when they meet all the standards...... look out.

172 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:54:09pm

re: #165 Mr Pancakes

China isn't a player yet in the car market... just wait till they are.

Not today.

173 freetoken  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:54:39pm

re: #167 Slumbering Behemoth

Dude, don't you know, once they can take your Twinkie away from you then mass sterilizations and forced abortions are next?

174 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:55:00pm

re: #166 b_sharp

There are too many different nations (we don't call them tribes) and many of the bands (no longer called reserves) have more than one 'tribe'. Even language groups such as Lakota, Dakota and Nakota can be mixed on one band.

It's easier just to say aboriginals, (as opposed to aborigines) or maybe North American aboriginals. I will use nation name such as Cree if I know it for a given band.

out here in NM the Natives call themselves Indians...collectively they sometimes refer to the 'Nations'....no muss, no fuss

175 [deleted]  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:55:04pm
176 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:55:15pm

re: #165 Mr Pancakes

China isn't a player yet in the car market... just wait till they are.

No jokes about wanting to drive again an hour after you put the car in the garage, please.
/

177 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:55:36pm

re: #171 Mr Pancakes

The designs that are far safer are decades old.
Ya gotta wonder-Why did they not apply them? It's not even more expensive.

178 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:55:51pm

re: #163 marjoriemoon

Indigenous is probably a better term (I think what he meant).

Indigenous is their state, aboriginal is their label. In Canada, natives call themselves Indians, Natives or Aboriginals. My wife finds 'Indian' stupid because this isn't India, so I've gotten into the habit of saying aboriginal.

Note the 'al' ending.

179 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:56:04pm

re: #172 Rightwingconspirator

Not today.


[Video]

there you have it...and they have a long way to go filling their own market

180 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:56:18pm

re: #170 freetoken

That's cool, but I'm not at all sure what that has to do with my dislike of Cat Stevens' music. :P

181 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:57:04pm

re: #167 Slumbering Behemoth

Seriously. When did healthy food and good nutrition for children turn into a bad thing? What kind of moron goes Full Mental Partisan over something like that?

When Michelle Obama made it her signature issue. Then the Wingnut Dictum kicked in: Anything the Obamas want is evil and must be opposed because they are evil.

182 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:57:08pm

re: #173 freetoken

You say that like it's a bad thing.
///

183 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:57:13pm

re: #177 Rightwingconspirator

The designs that are far safer are decades old.
Ya gotta wonder-Why did they not apply them? It's not even more expensive.

Yea I don't know..... they've made great strides in other industries.

184 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:57:13pm

re: #170 freetoken

If I remember correctly, it wasn't until Chrysler was going belly up and Iacocca stepped up to the plate, and the government bailed out Chrysler, that the Detroit establishment began to get a clue that they really had to change. By then they were a couple of decades behind the Asian and European makers who were doing more with less.

Yes, like monocoque construction amongst other thing. They were still framing sheet metal around iron chassis for years.

185 freetoken  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:57:28pm

re: #165 Mr Pancakes

China isn't a player yet in the car market... just wait till they are.

The Indians are looking to go whole hog in vehicle manufacture. Very astounding growth in automation happening there too.

Indeed, the IEA, in projecting future liquid fuel demand, doesn't see any upper limit to demand. That is one reason they've been saying the era of cheap oil is over.

186 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:57:52pm

re: #174 albusteve

out here in NM the Natives call themselves Indians...collectively they sometimes refer to the 'Nations'...no muss, no fuss

Similar here.

First Nations is becoming quite common.

187 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:59:27pm

re: #180 Slumbering Behemoth

That's cool, but I'm not at all sure what that has to do with my dislike of Cat Stevens' music. :P

I love the Cat........ the musician Cat Stevens.

"this post does not condone any idiotic things he ever said"

188 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:59:30pm

re: #184 Gus 802

Yes, like monocoque construction amongst other thing. They were still framing sheet metal around iron chassis for years.

that's a mid 60s thing....lessened weight, ease of construction, at least with the smaller stuff...the Chevy Nova comes to mind

189 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 7:59:46pm

Crash Test 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air VS. 2009 Chevrolet Malibu (Frontal Offset) IIHS 50th Anniversary

Watch as the smaller and modern 2009 Malibu literally destroys the 1959 Bel Air.

190 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:00:39pm

re: #162 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm tempted to do mean things to you just for linking it.
/kidding of course.

And I might like it!
But you have to ask permission first, Sir.

191 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:01:05pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

When Michelle Obama made it her signature issue. Then the Wingnut Dictum kicked in: Anything the Obamas want is evil and must be opposed because they are evil.

Thank God she didn't go with literacy, like Laura Bush. Or drugs, like Nancy Reagan.

192 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:01:24pm

re: #185 freetoken

The Indians are looking to go whole hog in vehicle manufacture. Very astounding growth in automation happening there too.

Indeed, the IEA, in projecting future liquid fuel demand, doesn't see any upper limit to demand. That is one reason they've been saying the era of cheap oil is over.

I agree.... and that's good. The only thing is.... India, after all is said and done can't compete with China.

193 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:02:17pm

“Indigenous peoples have the right to the lands, territories and resources which they have traditionally owned, occupied or otherwise used or acquired,” and nations “shall give legal recognition and protection to these lands, territories and resources.”

In other words, President Obama wants to give the entire land mass of the United States of America back to the Indians. He wants Indian tribes to be our new overlords

i vote an enthusiastic YES in the name of the people of my district of east central dogtown!

thankyoumadamspeakeriyieldtheremainderofmytime

194 laZardo  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:02:33pm

re: #189 Gus 802

And speaking of Chinese cars...

195 laZardo  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:02:56pm

re: #192 Mr Pancakes

I agree... and that's good. The only thing is... India, after all is said and done can't compete with China.

That's what they said about Korea competing with Japan...

196 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:03:28pm

re: #189 Gus 802

Crash Test 1959 Chevrolet Bel Air VS. 2009 Chevrolet Malibu (Frontal Offset) IIHS 50th Anniversary

[Video]Watch as the smaller and modern 2009 Malibu literally destroys the 1959 Bel Air.

a shame to take out that old Impala....there outa be a law!

197 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:03:44pm

re: #183 Mr Pancakes

The fact they did not bother is a very telling point. The leaders of the country of Lao Tzu finds it's people all too expendable to this modern day. May we please recall the endless series of product problems from China? Kids jewelry. In response to lead regulations the manufacturers switch to cadmium. Lead pigment paint. Bad cat food, toothpaste, tires, drywall. Under carat/ under karat diamond jewelry. (Short on gold and or diamond weight)

198 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:03:51pm

re: #178 b_sharp

Indigenous is their state, aboriginal is their label. In Canada, natives call themselves Indians, Natives or Aboriginals. My wife finds 'Indian' stupid because this isn't India, so I've gotten into the habit of saying aboriginal.

Note the 'al' ending.

it is stupid. I live in an area with a significant Indian/Pakistani population. It can get very confusing.

199 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:04:34pm

re: #181 Dark_Falcon

When Michelle Obama made it her signature issue. Then the Wingnut Dictum kicked in: Anything the Obamas want is evil and must be opposed because they are evil.

I guess when people are that intellectually lazy, it's just much easier to reflexively hate rather than employ any kind of critical thinking.

200 freetoken  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:04:51pm

You want to know the real reason they want to take away your food from you?

It's because Ho Hos remind them of Christmas!!

No Ho Hos allowed!

WAR ON CHRISTMAS!!

201 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:04:58pm

re: #195 laZardo

That's what they said about Korea competing with Japan...

Find a DVD player made in either Korea or Japan today.

202 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:05:41pm

re: #187 Mr Pancakes

I thought you were a man of taste, what with the whole IHOP thing you're rocking. I am disappoint.

203 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:06:01pm

My people have been here for over 6 generations, do we count as indigenous? I am a native.

Is anyone "technically" racially pure in this country?

204 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:06:22pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

They're even pissed at Allahpundit for saying that it might be a great idea but might produce bad publicity.


Allahpundit has a really weird BDSM relationship with his readers. He gets to write whatever and then they get to chain him to a toilet and defecate on him while tagging him in the ass with a branding iron that says RINO SELLOUT!

He needs to see a therapist about this. It isn't healthy.

205 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:06:35pm

re: #202 Slumbering Behemoth

I thought you were a man of taste, what with the whole IHOP thing you're rocking. I am disappoint.

Denny's only!

206 freetoken  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:06:55pm

re: #203 ggt

The term used in some places is "First Peoples".

207 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:07:17pm

re: #146 Killgore Trout

Michael Moore on Wikileaks on Maddow

Wow. Michael Moore is still a despicable douche.

208 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:07:28pm

re: #194 laZardo

And speaking of Chinese cars...

[Video]

Yep. I'm pretty sure that China has a very libertarian view regarding automobile safety.

209 sizzleRI  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:07:30pm

re: #175 MikeySDCA

That is pretty much the rule up here in Boston too. Or you move to a "good school system", but everyone knows what that means.

210 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:07:53pm

re: #203 ggt

My people have been here for over 6 generations, do we count as indigenous? I am a native.

Is anyone "technically" racially pure in this country?

no and yes

211 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:08:03pm

re: #197 Rightwingconspirator

The fact they did not bother is a very telling point. The leaders of the country of Lao Tzu finds it's people all too expendable to this modern day. May we please recall the endless series of product problems from China? Kids jewelry. In response to lead regulations the manufacturers switch to cadmium. Lead pigment paint. Bad cat food, toothpaste, tires, drywall. Under carat/ under karat diamond jewelry. (Short on gold and or diamond weight)

Oh there is the ugly side of China manufacturing...... my industry has been devastated by them...... there was a time you could chuckle at the quality of the product I sell when it came from China........ not anymore.

212 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:08:22pm

Cyber-Criminals, Not WikiLeaks Supporters, Hit Spamhaus with DDoS Attack

The distributed denial of service attack that knocked Spamhaus offline came from a real botnet controlled by Russian criminals, and was not an Operation Payback operation by the Anonymous group.

A Distributed Denial of Service attack against anti-spam group Spamhaus has provided evidence that cyber-criminals have found a new target: Wikileaks supporters. The cyber-criminals have combined the intense interest over Wikileaks with a misleading domain name to trick users into going to a fake site, security researchers said.

Spamhaus was hit by a distributed denial of service attack on Dec. 18. Since the group had come under fire from WikiLeaks supports for warning that wikileaks.info was under the control of a Russian host known for hosting malware and phishing sites, Spamhaus and other security researchers naturally thought it was a retaliatory attack from Anonymous.

213 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:09:21pm

re: #211 Mr Pancakes

Oh there is the ugly side of China manufacturing... my industry has been devastated by them... there was a time you could chuckle at the quality of the product I sell when it came from China... not anymore.


The clothing still sucks. Tears the first time it goes in a washing machine.

214 albusteve  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:09:25pm

re: #208 Gus 802

Yep. I'm pretty sure that China has a very libertarian view regarding automobile safety.

and school construction...remember how many fell apart a couple of years back during those terrible quakes?....tons of corruption over there

215 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:09:28pm

re: #186 b_sharp

Similar here.

First Nations is becoming quite common.

Well, it's always been historically the First Nations and the tribes and bands are part of the First Nations. Iroquois, Cherokee, Choctaw, Lakota, etc. are the Nations with various tribes and bands within them.

[Link: 500nations.com...]

Here is the Cree Nation's tribes.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

216 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:10:18pm

re: #204 celticdragon

He's an atheist. That's all that crowd needs to know to hate his guts. He could write an article about how water is wet, and the howler monkeys would still fling poo at him.

217 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:11:16pm

re: #33 NJDhockeyfan

Johnny Cash - The Ballad Of Ira Hayes


[Video]

OMG.

Thank you. Very much.

218 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:11:24pm

re: #202 Slumbering Behemoth

I thought you were a man of taste, what with the whole IHOP thing you're rocking. I am disappoint.

Don't be disappointed man......... If you're in the right mood...... "Tea for the Tillerman" is a desert island album........ no stinkers.

219 sizzleRI  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:11:25pm

re: #204 celticdragon

Allahpundit has a really weird BDSM relationship with his readers. He gets to write whatever and then they get to chain him to a toilet and defecate on him while tagging him in the ass with a branding iron that says RINO SELLOUT!

He needs to see a therapist about this. It isn't healthy.

Well, that was awesome.

220 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:11:32pm

re: #199 Slumbering Behemoth

I guess when people are that intellectually lazy, it's just much easier to reflexively hate rather than employ any kind of critical thinking.

It's also an unwillingness to put together any positive steps for action. Such plans do not emerge because:

1. Like you said, the hates are intellectually lazy.

2. If you put forward your own plans, you give the other side something to attack (and they will attack you, no matter how good the idea is).

3. The talk show people who are so prominent on the right at present would lose power if conservatives had to take positive actions. Once such steps are put in motion, the show host goes from being the cheerleader calling his followers to "Take our Country back!!1" to playing a supporting role for the politicians who are trying to pass the bill. And if the bill does pass, the politicos will claim the lions share of the credit.

221 Page 3 in the Binder of Women  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:12:04pm

OK, as with many of you (lawhawk esp.) this 9/11 responders bill, and it's lack of support from the GOP side of the isle is despicable.

Check this out


EricBoehlert

Wks ago GOP refused to allow 'debate' about 9-11 first responders bill. Now Coburn complains there's been no 'debate." #MerryXmas

222 engineer cat  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:12:55pm

re: #203 ggt

Is anyone "technically" racially pure in this country?

an unscientific concept and hence unmeasurable

additionally, homo sapiens sapiens is thought to have started to wander outside of africa and into eurasia in the period of 60 to 40 thousand years ago, and over to the americas about 15 thousand years ago, so we are settlers everywhere

"never forget that you are a wanderer..."

223 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:13:06pm

re: #216 Slumbering Behemoth

He's an atheist. That's all that crowd needs to know to hate his guts. He could write an article about how water is wet, and the howler monkeys would still fling poo at him.


Why he continues to tolerate it to the extent that he does is interesting. Is it supposed to be some statement of libertarian principle like at Reason Magazine?

I have no idea...but I also don't know of any other site where the front pager is so reviled by his own readership.

224 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:13:28pm

Crash Test 2007 - 2010 Nissan Versa / Tiida / Latio (Frontal Offset) IIHS

That gets a top rating. One of the other Nissan models has the best crash rating.

225 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:14:06pm

re: #143 marjoriemoon

Well, the 2010 Census site is pretty difficult to navigate, or at least I'm having trouble finding that info, but I'm sure it's there. I'm still looking for it.

The tribes have been growing steadily each year, but yes, they aren't up to the same populations as their glory days.

But that's forgetting the endless millions of "whites" who are part Indian. Diffusing into a wider pool isn't the same as being destroyed.

226 blueraven  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:14:41pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

They're even pissed at Allahpundit for saying that it might be a great idea but might produce bad publicity.

Wow! a reader comment

AP just wants more of that sweet sweet federal pork to flow into NYC.

Seriously, havn’t these guys already been compensated enough already. How many free drinks and easy lays have these guys already received by just reminding us they were 9/11 first responders.

Billions, really, billions for a cough (and cancer rates that I am sue will turn out to be as shocking as Hinckley, CA). From heros to incessant whiners overnight. I’m sorry, but you were heros because you sacrificed. By sacrifice, I mean giving or suffering for your country. If you want a gold plated retirement because of it, it wasn’t a sacrifice, was it. I am embarrassed that I have to be so obnoxious to call out your greed at tax payer expense. This is just more DEM redistribution of wealth.

227 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:15:51pm

re: #203 ggt

My people have been here for over 6 generations, do we count as indigenous? I am a native.

Is anyone "technically" racially pure in this country?

No. But it isn't relevant really. Comparing social opportunities based on name or skin colour tells us more.

My wife's ancestors (Woodland/Plains Cree) have been tracked back (intermittently) 9000 years. A few years ago they found remnants of a temporary community that shared similar artifacts with the Cree of 100 years ago at the bottom of a lake under ~9000 varves.

228 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:16:13pm

re: #211 Mr Pancakes

If I may ask, what kind of product? My personal professional direct experience is fine jewelry.

229 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:16:36pm

re: #225 lostlakehiker

But that's forgetting the endless millions of "whites" who are part Indian. Diffusing into a wider pool isn't the same as being destroyed.

Each of the tribes have a blood quota? quorum? in which they'll recognize you. I would think the census numbers includes them. I think the Cherokees have tightened that up a bit, seeing as everyone has a grandmother who was a Cherokee princess. (Little Indian humor there.)

230 laZardo  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:16:40pm

re: #224 Gus 802

Ah, the Nissan Tiida. Pissing off oil sheiks since 2009.

231 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:17:46pm

re: #203 ggt

My people have been here for over 6 generations, do we count as indigenous? I am a native.

Is anyone "technically" racially pure in this country?

I don't think so. That's why the tea partiers feel comfortable with their
'idealogical" purity of "real Americans."

232 avanti  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:19:10pm

re: #226 blueraven

Wow! a reader comment

They should just die happy, it's part of the sacrifice./ Just think of the money we'd save if we felt the same way about vet's.

233 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:19:35pm

re: #228 Rightwingconspirator

If I may ask, what kind of product? My personal professional direct experience is fine jewelry.

Printed circuit boards.

234 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:19:41pm

re: #226 blueraven


AP just wants more of that sweet sweet federal pork to flow into NYC.

Seriously, havn’t these guys already been compensated enough already. How many free drinks and easy lays have these guys already received by just reminding us they were 9/11 first responders.

Billions, really, billions for a cough (and cancer rates that I am sue will turn out to be as shocking as Hinckley, CA). From heros to incessant whiners overnight. I’m sorry, but you were heros because you sacrificed. By sacrifice, I mean giving or suffering for your country. If you want a gold plated retirement because of it, it wasn’t a sacrifice, was it. I am embarrassed that I have to be so obnoxious to call out your greed at tax payer expense. This is just more DEM redistribution of wealth.

Words fail.

Really.

Just like a vampire bat is a perfect vampire bat or a liver fluke is always a perfect liver fluke...this guy is a perfect free wheeling bastard.

The fail is magnificent to behold.

(yes. I borrowed liberally from The Stainless Steel Rat)

235 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:20:29pm

re: #231 prairiefire

I don't think so. That's why the tea partiers feel comfortable with their
'idealogical" purity of "real Americans."

Interestingly, "100% Americanism" was the rallying cry of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920's. Coincidence? Not really.

236 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:21:12pm

re: #203 ggt

My people have been here for over 6 generations, do we count as indigenous? I am a native.

Is anyone "technically" racially pure in this country?

Probably "First Nations" is the best way to describe the Indian tribes. You, indeed, are Native and so am I :) 2nd generation native heh

237 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:21:13pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

Interestingly, "100% Americanism" was the rallying cry of the Ku Klux Klan in the 1920's. Coincidence? Not really.

Good catch on that.

238 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:21:48pm

re: #226 blueraven

Wow! a reader comment

Damn. What an asshole.

239 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:22:26pm

re: #226 blueraven

Wow! a reader comment

LGF to Wingnut NYPD/FDNY Hater: Drop Dead.

3 updings to the first lizard who can explain the reference.

240 laZardo  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:23:54pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

LGF to Wingnut NYPD/FDNY Hater: Drop Dead.

3 updings to the first lizard who can explain the reference.

Dinnerjacket's 2007 visit?

241 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:24:28pm

re: #131 Gus 802

Yes. Clearly Flint, Michigan's decline had nothing to do with General Motors management, disinvestment, "white flight", the oil crisis of the 70s, outsourcing, and the lack of factory modernization. It was just the unions and the criminal element.

Well, outsourcing and white flight are both symptoms, not causes.

A badly led union will insist on the impossible. That's quite sufficient to ruin an industry. Throw in crime, and there is no need of further explanations.

242 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:24:35pm

re: #223 celticdragon

Why he continues to tolerate it to the extent that he does is interesting.

Indeed.

243 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:25:04pm

re: #215 marjoriemoon

Well, it's always been historically the First Nations and the tribes and bands are part of the First Nations. Iroquois, Cherokee, Choctaw, Lakota, etc. are the Nations with various tribes and bands within them.

[Link: 500nations.com...]

Here is the Cree Nation's tribes.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I was talking about what the local aboriginal groups are starting to commonly call themselves other than Indian. A while ago we used to see signs such as 'Poorman Indian Reservation" now we see signs like "Kawacatoose First Nation" (the same place). That change has been over the last 15 years.

244 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:25:07pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

LGF to Wingnut NYPD/FDNY Hater: Drop Dead.

3 updings to the first lizard who can explain the reference.

NY headline: "Ford to NY, Drop Dead". Pres. turning down a request for assistance.

245 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:26:41pm

re: #226 blueraven

Wow! a reader comment

You good sir (in reference to the person who wrote that) are a Vesteazio

At least that's all I can think to call him at the moment as I'm too busy being literally ANGRY WITH RAGE!!

246 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:27:33pm

re: #226 blueraven

Odin's Beard! What a creepy little asshole. Wonder if he feels the same about vets getting assistance for artificial limbs.

247 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:28:45pm

re: #242 Slumbering Behemoth

Indeed.

Awesome sauce.

Pink Floyd is my favorite hard rock band btw. I actually used to sing "Wish you were here" to my son when he was an infant and being fussy. Nothing to do with the lyrics, mind you, but the tune itself.

248 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:29:19pm

re: #244 Decatur Deb

NY headline: "Ford to NY, Drop Dead". Pres. turning down a request for assistance.

Correct. Your first upding is that post and your next two will be automatically updinged.

249 freetoken  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:30:11pm

re: #236 marjoriemoon

Even "First Nations" doesn't really do justice to what happened.

I notice that the latest BBC documentary is a history of "civilization". It is still stuck on the "big man" view of history (and has a very dominant Greek view.)

Problem is, for Eurasia, Micronesia/Australia, and Africa "humans" of one type or another have been roaming around for a million years.

There were interchanges of culture between the levant and western Europe millennia before the Phoenicians built their sailing empire and spread the alphabet.

Humans spreading in the New World likely happened in multiple, separate, waves over a couple of thousand years. And, groups were replacing each other.

A much more holistic view of "humanity" is needed, I propose.

250 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:30:32pm

re: #248 Dark_Falcon

Correct. Your first upding is that post and your next two will be automatically updinged.

What the young must Google, I need only remember.

251 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:30:35pm

re: #225 lostlakehiker

But that's forgetting the endless millions of "whites" who are part Indian. Diffusing into a wider pool isn't the same as being destroyed.

Actually it is because the aboriginal culture disappears. There is a big push on to preserve languages and pass on attitudes through stories, while still preparing the youth to join and contribute to the local non-aboriginal economy and culture.

It isn't just genetics.

252 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:31:19pm

re: #233 Mr Pancakes

Printed circuit boards.

Guitars - specifically BlueRidge.

253 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:31:49pm

re: #248 Dark_Falcon

Correct. Your first upding is that post and your next two will be automatically updinged.

Quick Deb, post something stupid and gross, so DF is stuck updinging it!
/

254 shai_au  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:32:35pm

Hysterics over DADT repeal are an insult to the military

A very good piece from someone who seems to have been against the repeal in the first place. I hope the comments over at Hot Air take note.

Probably won't, though.

255 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:33:14pm

re: #253 Slumbering Behemoth

Quick Deb, post something stupid and gross, so DF is stuck updinging it!
/

Could get him on record as a Palin fanboy.

256 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:33:24pm

re: #246 Slumbering Behemoth

Odin's Beard! What a creepy little asshole. Wonder if he feels the same about vets getting assistance for artificial limbs.


Real 'Murkin Heroes would go Galt and pull themselves up by their one remaining bootstrap and refuse any help from honest corporate taxes dontchaknow. That guy from the AFA says the American military is getting too "femmy" anyway. Do 'em some good to shed some blood, lose a limb or three and have permanant brain damage. Make a man of ya.
//

257 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:34:26pm

re: #254 shai_au

Hysterics over DADT repeal are an insult to the military

A very good piece from someone who seems to have been against the repeal in the first place. I hope the comments over at Hot Air take note.

Probably won't, though.

I like the article itself too much to dare risk looking at the comments...

258 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:34:39pm

re: #249 freetoken

Even "First Nations" doesn't really do justice to what happened.

I notice that the latest BBC documentary is a history of "civilization". It is still stuck on the "big man" view of history (and has a very dominant Greek view.)

Problem is, for Eurasia, Micronesia/Australia, and Africa "humans" of one type or another have been roaming around for a million years.

There were interchanges of culture between the levant and western Europe millennia before the Phoenicians built their sailing empire and spread the alphabet.

Humans spreading in the New World likely happened in multiple, separate, waves over a couple of thousand years. And, groups were replacing each other.

A much more holistic view of "humanity" is needed, I propose.

Oh for sure. In Florida even, it's only 90 miles from Key West to Cuba (those islands). The Florida tribes, like the Tequesta and Calusa (both now extinct) traded with them for 1000s of years.

We're humans, we label.

259 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:35:00pm

re: #251 b_sharp

Actually it is because the aboriginal culture disappears. There is a big push on to preserve languages and pass on attitudes through stories, while still preparing the youth to join and contribute to the local non-aboriginal economy and culture.

It isn't just genetics.

They have to make the culture cool.

White kids learn the haka. That's one piece of indigenous culture which isn't going anyplace any time soon.

260 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:35:17pm

re: #252 b_sharp

Guitars - specifically BlueRidge.

Made in China?

261 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:35:34pm

re: #255 Decatur Deb

Could get him on record as a Palin fanboy.

Nope not gonna happen. This post was upding 3.

262 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:35:49pm

re: #229 marjoriemoon

Each of the tribes have a blood quota? quorum? in which they'll recognize you. I would think the census numbers includes them. I think the Cherokees have tightened that up a bit, seeing as everyone has a grandmother who was a Cherokee princess. (Little Indian humor there.)

Blood quota, interesting concept. I could easily check "native american" on the census questionairre. It seems that so much of the data is subjective and therefore not always meaningful (depending on the context).

263 Charleston Chew  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:36:24pm

re: #76 Gus 802

Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, people, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act contrary to the Charter of the United Nations or construed as authorizing or encouraging any action which would dismember or impair, totally or in part, the territorial integrity or political unity of sovereign and independent States.

Which is just a long version of the small print at the bottom of tv commercials: "For entertainment purposes only", "No purchase necessary", "Void where prohibited".

264 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:36:39pm

re: #261 Dark_Falcon

Nope not gonna happen. This post was upding 3.

"This guy finds a lamp in the sand..."

265 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:36:42pm

re: #247 celticdragon

Awesome sauce.

Pink Floyd is my favorite hard rock band btw. I actually used to sing "Wish you were here" to my son when he was an infant and being fussy. Nothing to do with the lyrics, mind you, but the tune itself.

I love Pink Floyd....... I'd call them more "space rock".

266 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:36:47pm

re: #241 lostlakehiker

Well, outsourcing and white flight are both symptoms, not causes.

A badly led union will insist on the impossible. That's quite sufficient to ruin an industry. Throw in crime, and there is no need of further explanations.

Crime is also a symptom. But that's a bit like saying pulmonary obstruction is a symptom of a tumor. Yet it's that very obstruction that winds up killing the patient. Everything has to be treated as a whole. Management and leadership need to take personal responsibility for their role in driving GM into the ground nearly twice in its history.

267 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:38:04pm

re: #236 marjoriemoon

Probably "First Nations" is the best way to describe the Indian tribes. You, indeed, are Native and so am I :) 2nd generation native heh

In the dog breeding world, 4 generations makes a pedigree. My family has been here for over 6 . . .. I wonder what "they" think makes a pedigreed human?

268 laZardo  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:38:10pm

re: #262 ggt

I like to mark myself as "Other" when they ask for my ethnicity. Just because. :3

269 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:38:18pm

re: #265 Mr Pancakes

I love Pink Floyd... I'd call them more "space rock".

"On the Turning Away" moved me back from the dark.

270 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:38:24pm

re: #264 Decatur Deb

"This guy finds a lamp in the sand..."

A genie pops outof it and does this:

SMACK!

271 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:38:49pm

re: #249 freetoken


Humans spreading in the New World likely happened in multiple, separate, waves over a couple of thousand years. And, groups were replacing each other.

A much more holistic view of "humanity" is needed, I propose.

Last year I spoke to an archaeologist doing work in southern California about recent hypotheses. It seems there have been several large migrations down the west coast over the last 50,000 years with a lot of mixing. There has also been a trade corridor operating for several thousand years extending from Mexico to southern Saskatchewan.

272 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:38:58pm

re: #264 Decatur Deb

"This guy finds a lamp in the sand..."

A)"Beat me half to death"

B)"Fill it with water"

C)"And that's why I carry around this tiny piano..."

?

273 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:39:04pm

re: #262 ggt

Blood quota, interesting concept. I could easily check "native american" on the census questionairre. It seems that so much of the data is subjective and therefore not always meaningful (depending on the context).

The tribes themselves do a little more research. You have to have proof of family lineage, I mean to be a member. You can marry into the tribe and be eligible for some services. But like with the gaming, you would have to have a child and the child would be eligible for gaming funds, but not you.

274 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:39:25pm

re: #265 Mr Pancakes

I love Pink Floyd... I'd call them more "space rock".


"Thinking mans rock". :)

"Time" is still just as devastating every time I hear it as it was the first occasion I heard it.

275 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:39:39pm

re: #272 jamesfirecat

A)"Beat me half to death"

B)"Fill it with water"

C)"And that's why I carry around this tiny piano..."

?

"I asked for a 12-inch prick..."

276 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:39:51pm

re: #226 blueraven

Wow! a reader comment

One more thing. What this person, tommylotto, is saying is "if they're real heroes than they should die of their illnesses."

277 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:40:16pm

re: #269 Decatur Deb

"On the Turning Away" moved me back from the dark.

One Slip is a song that I can't get through without tears....... meant a lot to me at the time...... I'll never lose the feeling whenever I hear it now.

278 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:40:28pm

re: #267 ggt

In the dog breeding world, 4 generations makes a pedigree. My family has been here for over 6 . . .. I wonder what "they" think makes a pedigreed human?

Do you think the American Indian tribes do not deserve any special treatment or services?

279 freetoken  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:40:40pm

Since we're on atavism, here's the latest on creationism:

[Oklahoma State] Senator Plans Bill to Address Evolution in Public Schools

It's been a controversial issue for years and now one Oklahoma lawmaker says he plans on introducing a bill next year dealing with teaching evolution in public schools.

Meredith Saldana has more on what the senator says is a very important issue.

State Senator Josh Brecheen stressed that the final wording of the bill is not complete but says the issues the bill deals with are vital to our children.

Senator Brecheen says children should be given all the facts when it comes to evolution.

"If we really are going to use science in the classroom, let's use the full science, let's not just be selective in our science. That's what my legislation is designed to do," Brecheen said.

The senator says he supports having creationism--the belief that God created the world without evolution--taught in public schools.

"You either remove both or you put both in," he said.

In an op-ed he wrote last week, Brecheen called evolution, "a religion," and says there are serious flaws in the theory that students ought to know.

"The main fallacy with Darwinian theory," he argued, "is the sudden appearance at about 540 million years [ago] of fossil records. It's like a guy standing at the chalkboard and saying okay here's an atom [and then writing] question mark, question mark, human--here we are. But its fact, and there's zero evidence to back it up."

[...]

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!!

Hehe... his evidence is his ignorance over the Cambrian explosion.

These bills seem to appear every year in state Assemblies across this nation. Usually they go no where in committee. Yet, in this age of raging atavism and reactionary politics I wonder if this one will get more traction?

280 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:41:14pm

re: #259 EmmmieG

They have to make the culture cool.

White kids learn the haka. That's one piece of indigenous culture which isn't going anyplace any time soon.

Cool and fun. You should see the pow-wows around here.

281 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:41:17pm

re: #274 celticdragon

"Thinking mans rock". :)

"Time" is still just as devastating every time I hear it as it was the first occasion I heard it.

A top 5 album of all time for sure.

282 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:41:55pm

re: #269 Decatur Deb

"On the Turning Away" moved me back from the dark.

Amazing song. Another one on the grim side that has had me in tears more than once is "Sorrow".

Ther's unceasing wind that blows through this night
There's dust in my eyes that blinds my sight
When silence can speak so much louder then words...
Of promises broken.

283 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:42:05pm

re: #260 Mr Pancakes

Made in China?

Yes, high quality and gorgeous sound. I have one, and I prefer it over my Ovation and Takamine.

284 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:42:21pm

re: #247 celticdragon

Awesome sauce.

Pink Floyd is my favorite hard rock band btw. I actually used to sing "Wish you were here" to my son when he was an infant and being fussy. Nothing to do with the lyrics, mind you, but the tune itself.

Heh. Same idea, I used "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" as a lullaby for my son. It was one of the few songs I knew all the lyrics to and so could sing constantly for a reasonable number of minutes. The tune will still knock him out pretty quickly... ;)

285 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:42:37pm

re: #278 marjoriemoon

Do you think the American Indian tribes do not deserve any special treatment or services?

Absolutely, they do.

It's just the whole "label" thing that has me frustrated.

286 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:43:09pm

re: #283 b_sharp

Yes, high quality and gorgeous sound. I have one, and I prefer it over my Ovation and Takamine.

See? There ya go...... all that comes from China isn't shit.

287 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:43:29pm

re: #284 wlewisiii

Heh. Same idea, I used "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" as a lullaby for my son. It was one of the few songs I knew all the lyrics to and so could sing constantly for a reasonable number of minutes. The tune will still knock him out pretty quickly... ;)

They might have broke up,
Or they might have capsized,
They might have split deep and took water...
And all that remains
Are the faces and the names
Of the wives
and the sons and the daughters!

288 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:44:14pm

re: #280 b_sharp

Cool and fun. You should see the pow-wows around here.

I noticed when I was up in Canada that there was more of an emphasis on the native cultures. We have some local longhouses, but every time I went through a gift shop (I was on vacation, 'kay?) there were native crafts. I still regret not getting that stamp. Anyway...

[Link: www.travelpod.com...]

Like I said, one tribe just got a big shot of cool (at least with teenage girls everywhere.)

289 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:44:16pm

re: #279 freetoken

Since we're on atavism, here's the latest on creationism:

[Oklahoma State] Senator Plans Bill to Address Evolution in Public Schools

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!!

Hehe... his evidence is his ignorance over the Cambrian explosion.

These bills seem to appear every year in state Assemblies across this nation. Usually they go no where in committee. Yet, in this age of raging atavism and reactionary politics I wonder if this one will get more traction?

Stupid creationist is stupid.

290 blueraven  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:44:36pm

re: #276 Gus 802

One more thing. What this person, tommylotto, is saying is "if they're real heroes than they should die of their illnesses."

exactly! And they should be happy to do so...if they were dumb enough to go down there in the first place. Sorry, but that's the way I read the comment.

291 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:45:01pm

re: #285 ggt

Absolutely, they do.

It's just the whole "label" thing that has me frustrated.

In the '60s, the hip anthros were using "Amerinds". Didn't take. I don't think we're going to get consensus from such a diverse group. Intent and Context.

292 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:45:18pm

re: #280 b_sharp

Cool and fun. You should see the pow-wows around here.

I used to go to the powwows in Central Florida, Georgia and Alabama. My g/f was a dancer and silversmith and I'd watch her booth when she danced.

Anyway, I met this fellow, a Kiowa man from Oklahoma who came with the drum. He asked me if I had any Indian in me. When I said no, he said, "Do you want some?" Old joke, but I never heard it before. Those guys were a riot.

293 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:45:32pm

re: #268 laZardo

I like to mark myself as "Other" when they ask for my ethnicity. Just because. :3

Yeah, but we here at LGF already know you're not from this planet.
:P

294 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:45:47pm

re: #290 blueraven

exactly! And they should be happy to do so...if they were dumb enough to go down there in the first place. Sorry, but that's the way I read the comment.

Yeah. What's the big deal right? I mean all that whining about dying and such. Heck, if they've been good they get too live happily ever after in Cloud Land.

/

295 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:46:05pm

re: #292 marjoriemoon

I used to go to the powwows in Central Florida, Georgia and Alabama. My g/f was a dancer and silversmith and I'd watch her booth when she danced.

Anyway, I met this fellow, a Kiowa man from Oklahoma who came with the drum. He asked me if I had any Indian in me. When I said no, he said, "Do you want some?" Old joke, but I never heard it before. Those guys were a riot.

I do believe there is also one about an "ancient Indian custom."

296 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:46:31pm

re: #295 EmmmieG

I do believe there is also one about an "ancient Indian custom."

Did it have to do with dry cleaners?

297 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:46:46pm

re: #284 wlewisiii

Heh. Same idea, I used "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" as a lullaby for my son. It was one of the few songs I knew all the lyrics to and so could sing constantly for a reasonable number of minutes. The tune will still knock him out pretty quickly... ;)

I haven't heard that one in awhile. Another set of lyrics set to the same tune was written by Bobby Sands before he died in the Hunger Strike in a Brit prison back in th early 80's.

In 1803 we sailed out to sea
Out from the sweet town of Derry
For Australia bound if we didn't all drown
And the marks of our fetters we carried.

In the rusty iron chains we sighed for our wains
As our good wives we left in sorrow.
As the mainsails unfurled our curses we hurled
On the English and thoughts of tomorrow.

Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.
Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.

I cursed them to hell as our bow fought the swell.
Our ship danced like a moth in the firelights.
White horses rode high as the devil passed by
Taking souls to Hades by twilight.

Five weeks out to sea we were now forty-three
Our comrades we buried each morning.
In our own slime we were lost in a time.
Endless night without dawning.

Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.
Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.

Van Dieman's land is a hell for a man
To live out his life in slavery.
When the climate is raw and the gun makes the law.
Neither wind nor rain cares for bravery.

Twenty years have gone by and I've ended me bond
And comrades' ghosts are behind me.
A rebel I came and I'll die the same.
On the cold winds of night you will find me

Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.
Oh Oh Oh Oh I wish I was back home in Derry.

298 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:47:01pm

re: #267 ggt

In the dog breeding world, 4 generations makes a pedigree. My family has been here for over 6 . . .. I wonder what "they" think makes a pedigreed human?

I'm third generation, but I certainly wouldn't compare my history to my wife's. 113 years doesn't compare to 9000.

299 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:47:28pm

re: #270 Dark_Falcon

A genie pops outof it and does this:

SMACK!

Speaking of genies...

300 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:47:32pm

re: #233 Mr Pancakes

Oh, yes. Big example there. The industries affected go on and on.

301 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:47:52pm

re: #298 b_sharp

I'm third generation, but I certainly wouldn't compare my history to my wife's. 113 years doesn't compare to 9000.

My husband likes to refer to the branch of his family that's been in the country for three-hundred-odd years as the 'immigrant side of the family'.

302 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:48:15pm

re: #298 b_sharp

I'm third generation, but I certainly wouldn't compare my history to my wife's. 113 years doesn't compare to 9000.

The whole thing seems ludicrous to me. I think it is more about culture than actual genetics.

303 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:48:36pm

re: #296 ggt

Did it have to do with dry cleaners?

No. Not...really.

304 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:48:50pm

re: #285 ggt

Absolutely, they do.

It's just the whole "label" thing that has me frustrated.

The problem is, it seems to be constantly changing so it's hard to know if you're going to step on someone's toes. Why I tend to stick with "Indian." Most my Indian friends call themselves "Indian". I guess I don't take it too seriously. Maybe I should.

I'm an American Jew, but how awkward is that? I'm really a Hungarian, Polish, German, Russian, American Jew. HA!!

305 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:49:25pm

re: #304 marjoriemoon

The problem is, it seems to be constantly changing so it's hard to know if you're going to step on someone's toes. Why I tend to stick with "Indian." Most my Indian friends call themselves "Indian". I guess I don't take it too seriously. Maybe I should.

I'm an American Jew, but how awkward is that? I'm really a Hungarian, Polish, German, Russian, American Jew. HA!!

So, you are an Human American?

306 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:49:56pm

re: #304 marjoriemoon

The problem is, it seems to be constantly changing so it's hard to know if you're going to step on someone's toes. Why I tend to stick with "Indian." Most my Indian friends call themselves "Indian". I guess I don't take it too seriously. Maybe I should.

I'm an American Jew, but how awkward is that? I'm really a Hungarian, Polish, German, Russian, American Jew. HA!!

I recently discovered I have a sliver of New Amsterdam dutch. That came as a surprise.

307 freetoken  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:50:24pm

If Fischer's rants haven't given you your daily fill of nuttia then here is OK State Senator Josh Brecheen's article from three days ago:

Brecheen discusses evolution and Darwinian Theory

One of the bills I will file this year may be dismissed as inferior by “intellectuals” so I wanted to devote particular time in discussing it’s merits. [...] It is an attempt to bring parity to subject matter taught in our public schools, paid for by the taxpayers and driven by a religious ideology. I’m talking about the religion of evolution. Yes, it is a religion. The religion of evolution requires as much faith as the belief in a loving God, when all the facts are considered (mainly the statistical impossibility of key factors). Gasp! Someone reading this just fell out of their enlightened seat!!! “It’s not a religion as it’s agreed upon by the entire scientific community,” some are saying at this very moment. Are you sure? Let’s explore the facts.

As a high school and university student forced to learn about evolution I was never told there were credible scientists who harbor significant skepticism toward Darwinian Theory. I easily recall a full semester at SOSU where my English 1 professor forced us to write almost every paper over the “facts” of evolution. That professor had a deep appreciation for me by semester end due to our many respectful debates as I chose to not be blindly led. I specifically remember asking how in 4,000 years of recorded history how we have yet to see the ongoing evidence of evolution (i.e. a monkey jumping out of a tree and putting on a business suit).

[...]


Good grief, he's hardcore idiot.

308 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:51:17pm

re: #306 EmmmieG

I recently discovered I have a sliver of New Amsterdam dutch. That came as a surprise.

Hey! Me too!

And it was a giant surprise.

309 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:51:25pm

It would probably be easier if we didn't lumb the American/Native Indians into one lump, and just referred the tribes by their name. A person wouldn't be "an Indian", but "A Cherokee, or Lakota or whatever." Then everyone would know what continent was involved.

310 celticdragon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:51:25pm

Good night, lizards
I'm tired.

311 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:51:30pm

re: #305 ggt

So, you are an Human American?

I have my moments :)

I'm hearing ya. My husband detest labels, too.

312 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:51:34pm

re: #300 Rightwingconspirator

Oh, yes. Big example there. The industries affected go on and on.

There was over 5000 printed circuit board shops in the US mid 80's..... there are under 400 now. Mexico had a big presence in the market..... (Mexican companies had to buy from Mexican manufacturers) .... there are no privately owned shops left in Mexico today.

313 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:51:44pm

re: #306 EmmmieG

I recently discovered I have a sliver of New Amsterdam dutch. That came as a surprise.

Might have surprised the Dutchman's wife, as well. (Would in my family.)

314 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:52:44pm

re: #309 ggt

It would probably be easier if we didn't lumb the American/Native Indians into one lump, and just referred the tribes by their name. A person wouldn't be "an Indian", but "A Cherokee, or Lakota or whatever." Then everyone would know what continent was involved.

Indeed, but most people have no idea who is who.

315 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:53:03pm

re: #306 EmmmieG

I recently discovered I have a sliver of New Amsterdam dutch. That came as a surprise.

My family is from Germany. With the history of Europe, that encompasses a large radius. Parts of what are now France, were at one time or another German. I guess the family spoke German, language is the identifier, not genetics.

316 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:53:15pm

re: #311 marjoriemoon

I have my moments :)

I'm hearing ya. My husband detest labels, too.

Hey, I'll proudly accept my label as an anglo-welsh-scottish-german-dutch-swedish-something else Mormon chocoholic mother of five and Oregonian.

I'm just not going to pay to get it embroidered on anything.

317 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:53:44pm

re: #314 marjoriemoon

Indeed, but most people have no idea who is who.

And there we are!

318 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:53:46pm

re: #316 EmmmieG

Hey, I'll proudly accept my label as an anglo-welsh-scottish-german-dutch-swedish-somethin g else Mormon chocoholic mother of five and Oregonian.

I'm just not going to pay to get it embroidered on anything.

That's it! I'm making you a quilt!

319 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:53:55pm

re: #273 marjoriemoon

The tribes themselves do a little more research. You have to have proof of family lineage, I mean to be a member. You can marry into the tribe and be eligible for some services. But like with the gaming, you would have to have a child and the child would be eligible for gaming funds, but not you.

My wife is first nations. Her family keeps records through stories that go back ~8 generations. She had a French male ancestor from 6 generations ago and a Scot male from 4 generations ago. My kids are also considered first nations, but because their father -me- is non-aboriginal, their children can't be classed as first nations. It's all rather arbitrary.

320 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:53:57pm

re: #279 freetoken

"If we really are going to use science in the classroom, let's use the full science, let's not just be selective in our science. That's what my legislation is designed to do," Brecheen said.

Sooo... what? Teach kids how to make bombs and cook meth in chemistry class as well. There's science behind that too, you know. Sadly, not a whit of science behind creationism, so "meth lab" wins where ID loses.

The senator says he supports having creationism--the belief that God created the world without evolution--taught in public schools.

"You either remove both or you put both in," he said.

That's the bummer of the argument, dumb ass. Evolution does not say shit about any religion, but creationism/ID is religious baloney designed solely to talk shit about evolution.

How can people be so friggin' stupid?

321 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:54:15pm

Here's an example of Allahpundit's writing:

Huckabee on child nutrition: I must side with Michelle Obama over Sarah Palin

Is the 2012 Republican presidential nomination going to come down to a debate over … how much ice cream kids should be eating? One can only hope, my friends, because that campaign would be simply awesome to blog.

What if the final two end up being Huckabee and Romney? Which way would the Hot Air readership break? You guys might not like Mitt’s support for mandates, but hey — if your little one overdoses on tollhouse cookies, at least you know that his hospital stay is covered. Click the image to listen.

He's a bit of a bimbo. Most of the time he's quoting other people and barely doing a good job on crediting the source.

322 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:54:55pm

re: #278 marjoriemoon

Do you think the American Indian tribes do not deserve any special treatment or services?

I was wondering about that too.

323 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:54:57pm

re: #315 ggt

My family is from Germany. With the history of Europe, that encompasses a large radius. Parts of what are now France, were at one time or another German. I guess the family spoke German, language is the identifier, not genetics.

I have one great-great-grandfather who was the son of two Silesian immigrants. I didn't know that Silesia was any different than the area around it until I was talking to a genealogist friend, and he insisted that it isn't entirely German or Polish. Okay.

324 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:55:07pm

re: #319 b_sharp

My wife is first nations. Her family keeps records through stories that go back ~8 generations. She had a French male ancestor from 6 generations ago and a Scot male from 4 generations ago. My kids are also considered first nations, but because their father -me- is non-aboriginal, their children can't be classed as first nations. It's all rather arbitrary.

Yea, they all have their own rules about that kind of thing.

Excellent to have a history and keep it written down.

325 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:55:49pm

re: #304 marjoriemoon

the writer Sherman Alexi refers to himself as an "indian." If it is ok with him, I think it is ok with me.
"Smoke Signals"[Link: www.imdb.com...]

326 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:56:22pm

re: #319 b_sharp

My wife is first nations. Her family keeps records through stories that go back ~8 generations. She had a French male ancestor from 6 generations ago and a Scot male from 4 generations ago. My kids are also considered first nations, but because their father -me- is non-aboriginal, their children can't be classed as first nations. It's all rather arbitrary.

What if they marry first-nations spouses?

327 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:56:23pm

re: #320 Slumbering Behemoth

Sooo... what? Teach kids how to make bombs and cook meth in chemistry class as well. There's science behind that too, you know. Sadly, not a whit of science behind creationism, so "meth lab" wins where ID loses.

That's the bummer of the argument, dumb ass. Evolution does not say shit about any religion, but creationism/ID is religious baloney designed solely to talk shit about evolution.

How can people be so friggin' stupid?

Holistic thinking.

It's the idea that whatever you want can be true as long as you force yourself to believe those things that would make it be true are true.

So if you can make yourself really believe that creationism is just as good of a scientific explanation for how we got here as evolution... this is what results....

328 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:56:30pm

re: #325 prairiefire

the writer Sherman Alexi refers to himself as an "indian." If it is ok with him, I think it is ok with me.
"Smoke Signals"[Link: www.imdb.com...]

Ooo great flick.

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:56:31pm

re: #319 b_sharp

My wife is first nations. Her family keeps records through stories that go back ~8 generations. She had a French male ancestor from 6 generations ago and a Scot male from 4 generations ago. My kids are also considered first nations, but because their father -me- is non-aboriginal, their children can't be classed as first nations. It's all rather arbitrary.

Also, how does adoption work?

330 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:57:08pm

re: #294 Gus 802

So I guess the lesson that shit-bird wants folks to learn here is "Don't fucking help in a disaster. If you do, and you get hurt, it's you're own fucking fault. Fuck saving people."

331 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:57:08pm

As far as the census thing goes, is there any checking? If a whole group of non-American Indians who lived in the same area decided to check-mark the "American Indian" and then tried to get a gaming license . . .

See where I am going? Are there checks in the system?

332 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:57:09pm

I was raised Pittsburgh Irish, but am assumed to be half Croatian--terrorists on both sides. When pressed, I invoke the "Bastard's Privilege" and claim anything I like.

333 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:57:38pm

re: #308 SanFranciscoZionist

Hey! Me too!

And it was a giant surprise.

Me, too! Westphalls, 1640's Kingston New york. My grandpa was one of the first American kids born in the settlers' newly constructed fort in 1650. (proud)

334 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:57:45pm

re: #328 marjoriemoon

Ooo great flick.

"You can't learn how to be an Indian from watching "Dances With Wolves" twenty times. (Pause). Oh my God, you actually have watched it that many times."

335 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:57:45pm

re: #312 Mr Pancakes

Those numbers echo the consequences in jewelry manufacturing.

336 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:58:27pm

re: #332 Decatur Deb

I was raised Pittsburgh Irish, but am assumed to be half Croatian--terrorists on both sides. When pressed, I invoke the "Bastard's Privilege" and claim anything I like.

Just don't tell me you are a Steeler fan...... cuz I like you.

337 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:58:38pm

re: #327 jamesfirecat

Holistic thinking.

It's the idea that whatever you want can be true as long as you force yourself to believe those things that would make it be true are true.

So if you can make yourself really believe that creationism is just as good of a scientific explanation for how we got here as evolution... this is what results...

I'd just call that self-deception.

338 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:59:39pm

re: #336 Mr Pancakes

Just don't tell me you are a Steeler fan... cuz I like you.

That's "Stillers" to those in the know.

339 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 8:59:56pm

re: #330 Slumbering Behemoth

So I guess the lesson that shit-bird wants folks to learn here is "Don't fucking help in a disaster. If you do, and you get hurt, it's you're own fucking fault. Fuck saving people."

Yep. And to be a "real hero" you have to be willing to suffer a prolonged illness leading to death while guys like tommylotto get to sit on their ass before, during and after and define what a hero is.

340 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:00:03pm

re: #312 Mr Pancakes

I once served on a tiny little trade delegation to Mexico. They should have been where we get our "cheap" labor along with China. Would have elevated that economy quite well. The anti Chinese sentiment there was pervasive and powerful.

341 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:00:44pm

re: #307 freetoken

As a high school and university student forced to learn about evolution I was never told there were credible scientists who harbor significant skepticism toward Darwinian Theory. I easily recall a full semester at SOSU where my English 1 professor forced us to write almost every paper over the “facts” of evolution.

They held a fucking gun to my head, man! It was scary.
/

342 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:00:45pm

re: #340 Rightwingconspirator

I once served on a tiny little trade delegation to Mexico. They should have been where we get our "cheap" labor along with China. Would have elevated that economy quite well. The anti Chinese sentiment there was pervasive and powerful.

Mexicans don't like the Chinese?

343 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:02:00pm

re: #313 Decatur Deb

You never disappoint, bro. Good show.

344 sizzleRI  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:02:13pm

re: #325 prairiefire

the writer Sherman Alexi refers to himself as an "indian." If it is ok with him, I think it is ok with me.
"Smoke Signals"[Link: www.imdb.com...]

I love his short stories!

345 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:03:23pm

re: #292 marjoriemoon

I used to go to the powwows in Central Florida, Georgia and Alabama. My g/f was a dancer and silversmith and I'd watch her booth when she danced.

Anyway, I met this fellow, a Kiowa man from Oklahoma who came with the drum. He asked me if I had any Indian in me. When I said no, he said, "Do you want some?" Old joke, but I never heard it before. Those guys were a riot.

A friend of mine, a Cree from Kawacatoose, told me he used that line this past summer at the Craven Jamboree. Apparently it worked.

Actually I think it was his personality that did the deed.

346 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:04:07pm

re: #331 ggt

As far as the census thing goes, is there any checking? If a whole group of non-American Indians who lived in the same area decided to check-mark the "American Indian" and then tried to get a gaming license . . .

See where I am going? Are there checks in the system?

The census data is used to determine Congressional seats, decide on community services and funding to those communities. You would really only hurt yourself to lie about it.

Gaming is a whole different part of the government. The census would probably be used to determine services to the reservations, but the tribes control the gaming, and like I say, they figure out if you are who you claim you are. That's very important for them so they don't have others using their services.

You may not like to have labels, but people ARE different and the native tribes are certainly deserving of what they've managed to obtain.

347 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:04:14pm

re: #344 sizzleRI

I do too. He said in an interview that he and his wife had courted while watching Northern Exposure episodes. I thought that was sweet, because my hubby and I did as well. Also, "X-files" on Friday nights.

348 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:04:15pm

Carter: Brazil can be a leader in the peace process

Former US president Jimmy Carter on Monday told Brazilian newspaper Folha de S. Paulo he is happy Brazil recognized Palestinian statehood, adding, "We cannot count on the United States alone to bring peace, since it agrees with almost everything Israel does," The Telegraph reported.

What a douchebag.

349 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:04:42pm

re: #340 Rightwingconspirator

I once served on a tiny little trade delegation to Mexico. They should have been where we get our "cheap" labor along with China. Would have elevated that economy quite well. The anti Chinese sentiment there was pervasive and powerful.

Well, the thing is Mexico thought they could compete...... what we paid our employees in Mexico per day, China was paying in a week. Not to mention whether or not a shop was automated in Mexico... most weren't, some of the bigger shops were .... China was doing it far more efficiently and cheaper.

350 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:04:45pm

re: #345 b_sharp

A friend of mine, a Cree from Kawacatoose, told me he used that line this past summer at the Craven Jamboree. Apparently it worked.

Actually I think it was his personality that did the deed.

Women like a clever fellow :>

351 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:04:45pm

re: #302 ggt

The whole thing seems ludicrous to me. I think it is more about culture than actual genetics.

It is.

352 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:05:08pm

re: #337 Dark_Falcon

I'd just call that self-deception.

You know... when you make statements like "self-deception," do you you realize that you are judging a whole lot of people, all under the same umbrella?

Just because certain elements of the political right uses creationism as an anti-scientific hammer to hit people over the heads, primarily for political gain, does not put all believers in creationism into the self-deception camp.

There are hundreds of thousands of people on all sides of the political spectrum who believe that a god created most things, at some point in time. And many of these people believe in a 6000 year old earth, and many of these people are black, and brown and of all different colors, and they are Catholics and Methodists and Baptists and so on.

In one fell swoop you are putting people from all ends of the spectrum into one basket, and calling them self deceived.

353 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:05:49pm

re: #304 marjoriemoon

The problem is, it seems to be constantly changing so it's hard to know if you're going to step on someone's toes. Why I tend to stick with "Indian." Most my Indian friends call themselves "Indian". I guess I don't take it too seriously. Maybe I should.

I'm an American Jew, but how awkward is that? I'm really a Hungarian, Polish, German, Russian, American Jew. HA!!

Most here use Indian too. I get slapped by the wife when I use it so I don't.

354 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:06:19pm

re: #346 marjoriemoon

The census data is used to determine Congressional seats, decide on community services and funding to those communities. You would really only hurt yourself to lie about it.

Gaming is a whole different part of the government. The census would probably be used to determine services to the reservations, but the tribes control the gaming, and like I say, they figure out if you are who you claim you are. That's very important for them so they don't have others using their services.

You may not like to have labels, but people ARE different and the native tribes are certainly deserving of what they've managed to obtain.

One of our Alabama gambling factions is trying to get a Creek tribe de-certified, to knock out the casino competition. Abramoff was an early player in that struggle.

355 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:06:19pm

re: #342 ggt

Mexicans don't like the Chinese?

They love Chinese food....... some of the best I've had was in Mexico.

356 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:06:31pm

re: #305 ggt

So, you are an Human American?

Nah, I'm Pan sapiens.

357 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:07:08pm

re: #354 Decatur Deb

One of our Alabama gambling factions is trying to get a Creek tribe de-certified, to knock out the casino competition. Abramoff was an early player in that struggle.

Wow. Haven't heard of that. Nasty stuff.

358 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:07:26pm

re: #309 ggt

It would probably be easier if we didn't lumb the American/Native Indians into one lump, and just referred the tribes by their name. A person wouldn't be "an Indian", but "A Cherokee, or Lakota or whatever." Then everyone would know what continent was involved.

Even that isn't well defined. It's all a big mess.

359 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:07:27pm

re: #339 Gus 802

Yep. And to be a "real hero" you have to be willing to suffer a prolonged illness leading to death while guys like tommylotto get to sit on their ass before, during and after and define what a hero is.

Seriously. I'd have to suppress the urge to violence up a douche bag like that if he were to utter such nonsense in my presence.

360 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:07:45pm

re: #346 marjoriemoon

Thanks, I am not meaning to take anything away from the Native American's. Please don't think I am.

361 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:08:22pm

re: #353 b_sharp

Most here use Indian too. I get slapped by the wife when I use it so I don't.

BTW, my husband, when first told he was going to get to take over the United States, told me I had to get out. However, now that he's had some barbecued chicken and carrots and garlic mashed potatoes, and is watching NCIS LA, he seems to be in a better mood, so I'll see if I can renegotiate my immigrant status.

362 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:09:22pm

re: #360 ggt

Thanks, I am not meaning to take anything away from the Native American's. Please don't think I am.

But it sort of goes back to that. I mean if we are all just one happy human family, which really would be a great thing! Then you have to get rid of countries, territories, religion, blah blah blah.

Imagine.

lol

363 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:09:51pm

re: #359 Slumbering Behemoth

Seriously. I'd have to suppress the urge to violence up a douche bag like that if he were to utter such nonsense in my presence.

Just think. That same guy was pining for Giuliani to win the GOP nomination towards 2008. Why look at this:

Giuliani scolds GOP on 9/11 first-responders bill
By Michael O'Brien - 12/21/10 10:09 AM ET

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani scolded congressional Republicans, urging them to swiftly pass legislation providing health benefits to first responders on 9/11.

Giuliani, the mayor of New York on Sept. 11, 2001, when planes crashed into and destroyed the World Trade Center towers in Manhattan, said it was Congress's "obligation" to provide assistance to workers who helped in recovery efforts following the attacks.

"This should not be seen as a Democratic or Republican issue. It shouldn't even been seen as a fiscal issue. It's a matter of morality, of obligation," Giuliani said on New York's Fox affiliate on Tuesday morning...

364 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:10:14pm

re: #362 marjoriemoon

But it sort of goes back to that. I mean if we are all just one happy human family, which really would be a great thing! Then you have to get rid of countries, territories, religion, blah blah blah.

Imagine.

lol

Yeah, unicorns and lollipops for all. I'd hate it.

365 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:10:16pm

re: #316 EmmmieG

Hey, I'll proudly accept my label as an anglo-welsh-scottish-german-dutch-swedish-somethin g else Mormon chocoholic mother of five and Oregonian.

I'm just not going to pay to get it embroidered on anything.

Cool, those are all my blood lines as well!

366 What, me worry?  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:10:39pm

It's way past my bed time. I turned into a pumpkin already!

Sleep tight, little lizards.

367 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:10:40pm

re: #352 Walter L. Newton

You know... when you make statements like "self-deception," do you you realize that you are judging a whole lot of people, all under the same umbrella?

Just because certain elements of the political right uses creationism as an anti-scientific hammer to hit people over the heads, primarily for political gain, does not put all believers in creationism into the self-deception camp.

There are hundreds of thousands of people on all sides of the political spectrum who believe that a god created most things, at some point in time. And many of these people believe in a 6000 year old earth, and many of these people are black, and brown and of all different colors, and they are Catholics and Methodists and Baptists and so on.

In one fell swoop you are putting people from all ends of the spectrum into one basket, and calling them self deceived.

True. In many cases the deception is not self inflicted.
:P

368 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:10:55pm

re: #316 EmmmieG

Hey, I'll proudly accept my label as an anglo-welsh-scottish-german-dutch-swedish-somethin g else Mormon chocoholic mother of five and Oregonian.

I'm just not going to pay to get it embroidered on anything.

The chocoholic is the defining label I'll bet.

I'm Polish, Ukrainian, German, Austrian, English, Scottish. My kids get to add Cree, Ojibwa (Assiniboine I believe) and French.

We're all Canadian.
We're all North American.
We're all Terran.

369 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:10:56pm

re: #357 marjoriemoon

Wow. Haven't heard of that. Nasty stuff.

Wetumpka press:

[Link: www.google.com...]

370 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:10:59pm

re: #365 prairiefire

Cool, those are all my blood lines as well!

Don't forget the something else. We all have it. It's the stuff we can't trace.

371 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:11:26pm

re: #368 b_sharp

The chocoholic is the defining label I'll bet.

I'm Polish, Ukrainian, German, Austrian, English, Scottish. My kids get to add Cree, Ojibwa (Assiniboine I believe) and French.

We're all Canadian.
We're all North American.
We're all Terran.

I would add "Child of God."

372 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:11:45pm

re: #367 Slumbering Behemoth

True. In many cases the deception is not self inflicted.
:P

I put it under the category of "dysfunctional world-view".

373 laZardo  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:12:09pm

re: #368 b_sharp

I'm a reptile. 0:

374 BongCrodny  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:12:27pm

That would be a pretty neat trick, giving America back to the "Indians" while at the very same time engineering a Muslim takeover of the United States.

375 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:12:55pm

re: #369 Decatur Deb

Wetumpka press:

[Link: www.google.com...]

Catholics had better watch-out!

376 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:13:09pm

re: #361 SanFranciscoZionist

Well if he don't want ya around...

377 jamesfirecat  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:13:18pm

re: #368 b_sharp

We're all Terran.

And we have to have our siege tanks ready to roll out for when the Zerg and Protoss show up!

378 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:13:34pm

re: #367 Slumbering Behemoth

True. In many cases the deception is not self inflicted.
:P

Whatever...

And some of those people are simply believers, with no political agenda behind their belief, and they don't try to use their belief as s socio-political vote getting tactic.

Yet, remarks like Dark falcons simply lumps all these believers into one basket, and that in itself is bigoted.

379 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:14:24pm

re: #368 b_sharp

The chocoholic is the defining label I'll bet.

I'm Polish, Ukrainian, German, Austrian, English, Scottish. My kids get to add Cree, Ojibwa (Assiniboine I believe) and French.

We're all Canadian.
We're all North American.
We're all Terran.

My mom told me (she's dead now) I'm Dutch, English, Welsh and French Canadian.... French Canadian? That would be like telling a kid in Canada that he was part Texan..... no? I should have grilled her on that... oh well.

380 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:14:30pm

re: #324 marjoriemoon

Yea, they all have their own rules about that kind of thing.

Excellent to have a history and keep it written down.

You should see the chart Vivian's (my wife) cousin drew up. Those families were big. There was a lot of holes in it though. Only the last 3 or 4 generations could write.

381 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:14:39pm

re: #370 EmmmieG

Don't forget the something else. We all have it. It's the stuff we can't trace.

I think I'm part hound dog.

382 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:15:19pm

I can't believe that through all this talk of tribes or what not, no one has linked this.

383 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:15:52pm

re: #375 ggt

Catholics had better watch-out!

Ha! A New Yorker was visiting here, and came into the RC church where my wife was preparing music:

"What time is Bingo?"

"We don't have Bingo."

"Is this the Catholic church?"

384 Killgore Trout  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:16:19pm

Too Many Puppies


Namaste, y'all
385 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:16:21pm

re: #380 b_sharp

You should see the chart Vivian's (my wife) cousin drew up. Those families were big. There was a lot of holes in it though. Only the last 3 or 4 generations could write.

We have some of that too, but in reality, you don't know "who's car or horse was parked next door."

386 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:16:29pm

re: #326 SanFranciscoZionist

What if they marry first-nations spouses?

Then their kids may be classed as first nation. They have to apply for status.

387 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:16:45pm

re: #378 Walter L. Newton


Yet, remarks like Dark falcons simply lumps all these believers into one basket, and that in itself is bigoted.

I simply don't see it like that, but as you say, whatever...

388 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:17:01pm

re: #382 Slumbering Behemoth

I can't believe that through all this talk of tribes or what not, no one has linked this.

Or this

389 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:17:08pm

re: #384 Killgore Trout

Too Many Puppies

[Video]
Namaste, y'all

NO such thing --puppies are like Garlic and Chocolate.

390 Gretchen G.Tiger  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:17:37pm

I have to go,

Have a great night all!

391 sizzleRI  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:18:19pm

re: #347 prairiefire

That sounds like an amazing courtship. (recently I've begun to like the term courtship, it seems whimsical and fun.)

392 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:18:53pm

re: #329 SanFranciscoZionist

Also, how does adoption work?

That I will have to ask about. I simply don't know. Each band has a membership clerk who reports to INAC (Indian and Northern Affairs Canada) where decisions are made about this stuff.

393 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:18:54pm

re: #388 Mr Pancakes

Or this


[Video]

Or this.

394 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:19:59pm

re: #391 sizzleRI

That sounds like an amazing courtship. (recently I've begun to like the term courtship, it seems whimsical and fun.)

It's all fun and games until it's time to talk brideprice.

395 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:20:45pm

re: #371 EmmmieG

My mom's National Geographic DNA results indentified us as haplogroup x, which is mainly Native American. Big question mark. Is there an American Indian ancestor being hidden by family history, or was the test wrong?
We look nothing like American Indians.
Night, lizards.

396 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:21:00pm

re: #394 Decatur Deb

It's all fun and games until it's time to talk brideprice.

If America had had bride price, my parents would have been rich.

If we had had dowries, my younger sisters would not yet be married.

397 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:21:16pm

re: #393 Slumbering Behemoth

Or this.


[Video]

Yowza!

398 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:21:46pm

re: #396 EmmmieG

If America had had bride price, my parents would have been rich.

If we had had dowries, my younger sisters would not yet be married.

Excellent.

399 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:22:25pm

re: #331 ggt

As far as the census thing goes, is there any checking? If a whole group of non-American Indians who lived in the same area decided to check-mark the "American Indian" and then tried to get a gaming license . . .

See where I am going? Are there checks in the system?

In Canada, first nations people carry a photo Status Card that is presented when they apply for a license. They have to be a member of a band to get the card.

400 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:22:36pm

re: #391 sizzleRI

That sounds like an amazing courtship. (recently I've begun to like the term courtship, it seems whimsical and fun.)

I'm trying to keep a list of dying words. "Peaked", "fey",...I need to write them down.

401 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:22:56pm

re: #361 SanFranciscoZionist

I know you can! I have faith in the SFZ power of negotiating!

402 prairiefire  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:23:39pm

re: #400 prairiefire

Peak-ed as in a very white facial coloring. OK, night for reals.

403 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:23:52pm

re: #350 marjoriemoon

Women like a clever fellow :>

He's a great guy.

404 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:24:02pm

re: #396 EmmmieG

There are some Americans still doing the whole arranged marriage thing. :(

I suppose a deep, worthwhile relationship could develop, but I am a firm believer in having the freedom to find your own spouse.

405 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:24:38pm

re: #393 Slumbering Behemoth

Or this.


[Video]

I'd eat the maize out...... oh never mind.

406 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:25:41pm

re: #404 Slumbering Behemoth

There are some Americans still doing the whole arranged marriage thing. :(

I suppose a deep, worthwhile relationship could develop, but I am a firm believer in having the freedom to find your own spouse.

My high school BFFs mother was married off to a guy in America she had never seen when she was sixteen.

My friend still hasn't married, and I think there's a reason for that.

407 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:26:16pm

re: #405 Mr Pancakes

She was quit the looker before all that damn plastic surgery, wasn't she?

408 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:26:24pm

re: #371 EmmmieG

I would add "Child of God."

Some of the others maybe.

409 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:26:42pm

re: #373 laZardo

I'm a reptile. 0:

I noticed that.

410 sizzleRI  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:27:02pm

re: #394 Decatur Deb

It's all fun and games until it's time to talk brideprice.

You always make some great points!

411 Decatur Deb  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:27:30pm

'Nite, all.

412 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:27:41pm

re: #407 Slumbering Behemoth

She was quit the looker before all that damn plastic surgery, wasn't she?

Yea....... amazing how long she lasted. I really don't see her as a plastic surgery disaster.

413 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:27:48pm

re: #404 Slumbering Behemoth

There are some Americans still doing the whole arranged marriage thing. :(

I suppose a deep, worthwhile relationship could develop, but I am a firm believer in having the freedom to find your own spouse.

My husband and I talked about who our parents would have arranged marriages with. I would probably have been okay. My husband was scared by the entire prospect, mostly because of the girls his father used to point out to him.

414 b_sharp  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:30:17pm

Crap, it's 11:30 here. I've got to get to bed. Goodnight.

415 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:32:03pm

re: #412 Mr Pancakes

Yea... amazing how long she lasted. I really don't see her as a plastic surgery disaster.

I wouldn't say that she was a PS disaster, really. I'm just one of those "stick with your natural beauty" type of guys.

I know, lots of folks ain't got any aesthetic beauty, natural or otherwise, but she sure did.

416 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:35:56pm

re: #415 Slumbering Behemoth

I wouldn't say that she was a PS disaster, really. I'm just one of those "stick with your natural beauty" type of guys.

I know, lots of folks ain't got any aesthetic beauty, natural or otherwise, but she sure did.

Yeah, she looks a lot like the other Armenian celebrities--the Kardashians.

417 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:36:28pm

Heavy metal Osmonds...... don't say I didn't anything for you guys for Christmas.

418 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:36:58pm

re: #413 EmmmieG

I shudder to think what kind of bride my family would pick for me. Aryan-esque blond with big tits (Pretty face? Who cares. Look, big tits. What are you gay?) from my dad, probably some kind of mean bitch from my mom, and if my grandma had any say, probably some dowdy looking woman who buys into that whole "Christian female subservience" thing, with quality, childbearing hips.

419 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:38:28pm

re: #418 Slumbering Behemoth

I shudder to think what kind of bride my family would pick for me. Aryan-esque blond with big tits (Pretty face? Who cares. Look, big tits. What are you gay?) from my dad, probably some kind of mean bitch from my mom, and if my grandma had any say, probably some dowdy looking woman who buys into that whole "Christian female subservience" thing, with quality, childbearing hips.

That's why it's a bad idea.

420 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:38:52pm

re: #413 *9EmmmieG

There is NO WAY I would have considered anyone my parents would have picked out for me. Julian Assange would look better than my parents choices.
*spits*

421 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:39:27pm

re: #420 Floral Giraffe

There is NO WAY I would have considered anyone my parents would have picked out for me. Julian Assange would look better than my parents choices.
*spits*

Ouch

422 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:40:55pm

re: #352 Walter L. Newton

You know... when you make statements like "self-deception," do you you realize that you are judging a whole lot of people, all under the same umbrella?

Just because certain elements of the political right uses creationism as an anti-scientific hammer to hit people over the heads, primarily for political gain, does not put all believers in creationism into the self-deception camp.

There are hundreds of thousands of people on all sides of the political spectrum who believe that a god created most things, at some point in time. And many of these people believe in a 6000 year old earth, and many of these people are black, and brown and of all different colors, and they are Catholics and Methodists and Baptists and so on.

In one fell swoop you are putting people from all ends of the spectrum into one basket, and calling them self deceived.

I didn't mean it to be read that way. I wasn't trying to make a blanket statement. Soory it came out that way.

423 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:42:12pm

re: #417 Mr Pancakes

I love you right now. Yet another strange music video in my arsenal of "This link is highly relevant to the serious political topic you bring up... OH SNAP, it's just a weird music video."

424 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:43:27pm

re: #421 Mr Pancakes

And, the whole marriage thing is more about values than looks. How do you mesh about money, religion, and basic values? In laws? Kids? Yeah, ypu're hot & I want a piece, but long term, there are discussions & decisions to be made.

425 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:43:40pm

I know exactly who my father would have wanted me to marry, back when I was in college, and we would have been MISERABLE.

If he had a chance to replace my present husband, he would probably try to marry me off to one of his many young lesbian human-rights-activist buddies, and that would be OK, probably.

426 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:44:39pm

re: #423 Slumbering Behemoth

I love you right now. Yet another strange music video in my arsenal of "This link is highly relevant to the serious political topic you bring up... OH SNAP, it's just a weird music video."

Dude..... i loved the First Edition!........ Kenny..... later .... not so much.

427 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:44:46pm

re: #422 Dark_Falcon

Nope, too late. You're a dick now. It's written in stone.
/just messing with you and Walter.

428 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:45:16pm

re: #424 Floral Giraffe

And, the whole marriage thing is more about values than looks. How do you mesh about money, religion, and basic values? In laws? Kids? Yeah, ypu're hot & I want a piece, but long term, there are discussions & decisions to be made.


I've heard it said that love is not looking at each other, but looking in the same direction.

Marriage, at least, that is true.

429 elizajane  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:45:56pm

re: #418 Slumbering Behemoth

I shudder to think what kind of bride my family would pick for me. Aryan-esque blond with big tits (Pretty face? Who cares. Look, big tits. What are you gay?) from my dad, probably some kind of mean bitch from my mom, and if my grandma had any say, probably some dowdy looking woman who buys into that whole "Christian female subservience" thing, with quality, childbearing hips.

My father made no secret of his desire that I marry a Chinese man. He seems to think that they are the only race as or more intelligent than Jews, and (having married a non-Jew himself) he was not going to insist that I marry a Jew.

But I circumvented that whole marriage/genetics thing and just adopted Chinese (and Kazakh) children.

430 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:46:10pm

re: #424 Floral Giraffe

And, the whole marriage thing is more about values than looks. How do you mesh about money, religion, and basic values? In laws? Kids? Yeah, ypu're hot & I want a piece, but long term, there are discussions & decisions to be made.

Were you subject to your folks approval?

431 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:46:56pm

re: #429 elizajane

My father made no secret of his desire that I marry a Chinese man. He seems to think that they are the only race as or more intelligent than Jews, and (having married a non-Jew himself) he was not going to insist that I marry a Jew.

But I circumvented that whole marriage/genetics thing and just adopted Chinese (and Kazakh) children.

How many children do you have?

432 laZardo  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:47:22pm

re: #429 elizajane

My father made no secret of his desire that I marry a Chinese man. He seems to think that they are the only race as or more intelligent than Jews, and (having married a non-Jew himself) he was not going to insist that I marry a Jew.

But I circumvented that whole marriage/genetics thing and just adopted Chinese (and Kazakh) children.

Very ni~ce!

/obligatory

433 elizajane  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:48:29pm

re: #431 SanFranciscoZionist

How many children do you have?

Three, all girls, although somehow there always seem to be extras at the dinner table. Today there was a stray teen-aged boy. Portent of things to come....

434 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:48:33pm

re: #429 elizajane

Good on ya for adopting. Seriously. I got big love for folks like you.

435 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:48:38pm

re: #423 Slumbering Behemoth

I love you right now. Yet another strange music video in my arsenal of "This link is highly relevant to the serious political topic you bring up... OH SNAP, it's just a weird music video."

I actually added Crazy Horses to my playlist..... don't tell anyone.... the First Edition song was already in it.

436 laZardo  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:50:03pm

BBL have to pick up my dad from airport. :D

437 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:51:14pm

re: #435 Mr Pancakes

Wow. I think I'm gonna hafta go to some extreme lengths to find odd music videos that you'll find weird.

Challenge: Accepted!

438 sizzleRI  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:51:49pm

re: #418 Slumbering Behemoth

I shudder to think what kind of bride my family would pick for me. Aryan-esque blond with big tits (Pretty face? Who cares. Look, big tits. What are you gay?) from my dad, probably some kind of mean bitch from my mom, and if my grandma had any say, probably some dowdy looking woman who buys into that whole "Christian female subservience" thing, with quality, childbearing hips.

Well, thats just science.

439 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:52:26pm

re: #423 Slumbering Behemoth

I love you right now. Yet another strange music video in my arsenal of "This link is highly relevant to the serious political topic you bring up... OH SNAP, it's just a weird music video."

Maybe the first song that Glen Campbell ever sang on...... great psychedelia song.

440 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:53:41pm

re: #438 sizzleRI

Heh, I think my grandma is gravely disappointed that neither my brother nor I have married and sired her many great-grand children.

441 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:54:46pm

re: #433 elizajane

Three, all girls, although somehow there always seem to be extras at the dinner table. Today there was a stray teen-aged boy. Portent of things to come...

One of my coworkers from years ago had two daughters who were born in China. At one point, she showed me a website of families who had gone through the same agency, where people could post pictures of their families, give updates, and such.

The one I have always remembered was a particular family portrait. Mom, dad, golden retriever, three big sons (middle to high school aged), all grinning wildly, and tiny new daughter sitting on Mom's lap, entirely dressed in pink. Mom has the serene smile of a woman who does not intend to let genetics cheat her out of little dresses one more time.

It was very cute.

442 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:55:01pm

re: #438 sizzleRI

Well, thats just science.

Waaaaaiiiit a second.

Exhibit A: I do not have childbearing hips. I never had a complication (projectile vomiting is not a complication, it just sucks) and delivered my children in 2-14 hours.

Exhibit B: My sister-in-law, who has...um...Nordic hips...went 18 hours without much dilation and then had an emergency C-section.

My feelings on the matter are to be glad we live when we do, so all women can be relatively safe delivering.

443 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 9:55:23pm

re: #439 Mr Pancakes

I counter with...

444 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:01:01pm

re: #443 Slumbering Behemoth

I counter with...

Dude.... if you wanna get obscure we can do that.

445 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:01:14pm

Pro-tip: If there is a really cool song out there and you have to alter the lyrics to things like "fo-get you" or "ain't that some stuff" in order for it to be on your tv show or commercial, the song is probably too damn cool for you to use to sell whatever crap you're selling, and you should just go with something else.

446 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:02:13pm

Today was Frank Zappa's birthday

447 Kragar  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:03:05pm

re: #445 Slumbering Behemoth

Pro-tip: If there is a really cool song out there and you have to alter the lyrics to things like "fo-get you" or "ain't that some stuff" in order for it to be on your tv show or commercial, the song is probably too damn cool for you to use to sell whatever crap you're selling, and you should just go with something else.

Come on Baby, buy my tires!

448 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:04:09pm

Just about time to head out for work... I get to work 2 weeknight overnights this week, tonight and tomorrow night. Full time overnight person is taking some vacation days for the Christmas holidays. Low man on the seniority list gets to substitute, that's me.

I'm probably better off babysitting the self scan overnight and stocking the cereal aisle versus working a cash register any evening this week. The store has been slammed with customers over the last few days.

Although I do get to join the fun on Friday, for 4 hours midday... looking forward to that.

Shoppers... treat your clerks nice, they are just like you, busy and trying to get ready for a little holiday.

449 sizzleRI  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:04:18pm

re: #442 EmmmieG

hahaha, I jest I jest. At least I hope, because I have no idea how that is going to go for me.

I have many friends who delivered at home. I don't want that. At least at the hospital someone else cleans up!

450 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:05:17pm

re: #444 Mr Pancakes

I am finding that strangely enjoyable. And this is coming from a big SLAYER! fan.

/and from this point forward, I will always type SLAYER! in all caps with an exclamation point, because that is just how SLAYER! should be typed

451 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:07:52pm

re: #450 Slumbering Behemoth

I am finding that strangely enjoyable. And this is coming from a big SLAYER! fan.

/and from this point forward, I will always type SLAYER! in all caps with an exclamation point, because that is just how SLAYER! should be typed

Thanks I'm glad you liked it.... I enjoyed the Vangelis. Can is a German band that is (was) out on the fringe.

452 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:10:13pm

re: #448 Walter L. Newton

Be grateful that you have this.
Paris will be more fun, for the work you've done.

453 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:10:56pm

I'm going to sign off for the night as well. Sleep well, all.

454 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:11:36pm

re: #452 Floral Giraffe

Be grateful that you have this.
Paris will be more fun, for the work you've done.

Please... don't take my comments as grousing... just stating some facts...

Just went outside to warm the car... it's 16 degrees (f) out tonight.

455 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:11:54pm

re: #446 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


Yeah, I tell them to change the channel if they see some guy in a brown suit with a telephone number at the bottom of the screen asking for money.
-- Frank Zappa, Senate Hearing on "Porn Rock", 1985, after being asked by Tipper Gore if there was anything on TV he didn't allow his kids to watch

The Frank I was dealt.

456 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:12:46pm

re: #450 Slumbering Behemoth

I am finding that strangely enjoyable. And this is coming from a big SLAYER! fan.

/and from this point forward, I will always type SLAYER! in all caps with an exclamation point, because that is just how SLAYER! should be typed

Here's another German band......... Amon Duul II ...... yes there was an Amon Duul I..... not as good.

457 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:13:05pm

re: #430 Mr Pancakes

I thought I was, it's the same thing, really.
I know better now.

458 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:14:57pm

Out of here... peace all...

459 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:15:21pm

re: #454 Walter L. Newton

That's freaking cold!
Good luck!

460 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:16:29pm

re: #266 Gus 802

Crime is also a symptom. But that's a bit like saying pulmonary obstruction is a symptom of a tumor. Yet it's that very obstruction that winds up killing the patient. Everything has to be treated as a whole. Management and leadership need to take personal responsibility for their role in driving GM into the ground nearly twice in its history.

Trouble is, you could probably pick any two of these several causes and they would be sufficient to account for the result.

Management was bad at GM because nobody likes to be general when the war is hopeless. Except the nakedly careerist who are just in it for the ride.

Wait...union leadership was bad for the same reason....

it goes round and round. But crime is NOT a symptom. Crime can be kept a lid on if a city has the will. High crime rates are high because the city or the state has decided they like it that way, better than they like the stiff punishments and tough laws, and savvy peacemaking between gangs sometimes, that would tone it down.

Again and again, we see that crime rates are not in any way written in stone. They move, and fairly quickly, in response to policy decisions and the arrival of good police chiefs and mayors. Some things you can't do much about. Crime is not one of those things.

461 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:16:49pm

re: #456 Mr Pancakes

Amon Duul II? The name sounds like a villain emperor soon to be vanquished by Conan the Barbarian.

/also, why do I have the sudden urge to drop an heroic dose?

462 shai_au  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:23:10pm

re: #257 jamesfirecat

I like the article itself too much to dare risk looking at the comments...

I'll save you the trouble, mate.

/glutton for punishment

By the same token, this argument can be used to defend any decision to screw with the military.

We’re going to change the rules to make it even more difficult to defend yourself in battle. Unless you think our fighting men and women are too incapable of adjusting to rule changes.

We’re going to make soldiers wear flashing lights with pink outfits. Unless you think our fighting men and women would be unable to adapt.

Any bad decision will find someone insisting that your opposition is an insult to the fighting men and women who can surely adapt to any situation.

Oh, look at that. Another slippery slope argument.

/drinks

463 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:23:17pm

re: #460 lostlakehiker

Trouble is, you could probably pick any two of these several causes and they would be sufficient to account for the result.

Management was bad at GM because nobody likes to be general when the war is hopeless. Except the nakedly careerist who are just in it for the ride.

Wait...union leadership was bad for the same reason...

it goes round and round. But crime is NOT a symptom. Crime can be kept a lid on if a city has the will. High crime rates are high because the city or the state has decided they like it that way, better than they like the stiff punishments and tough laws, and savvy peacemaking between gangs sometimes, that would tone it down.

Again and again, we see that crime rates are not in any way written in stone. They move, and fairly quickly, in response to policy decisions and the arrival of good police chiefs and mayors. Some things you can't do much about. Crime is not one of those things.

I don't know what you're talking about here. Crime is indeed a symptom of a number breakdowns in societal norms. That is a universally accepted observation. For example, you will not find muggers and bank robbers in the wealthy section of town. For the most part, in the USA, crime is a symptom of poverty.

464 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:23:26pm

re: #461 Slumbering Behemoth

Amon Duul II? The name sounds like a villain emperor soon to be vanquished by Conan the Barbarian.

/also, why do I have the sudden urge to drop an heroic dose?

Actually it means moon/sun in turkish (so they say)....... but they did form in a drug rehab center.

Here's a German band that ripped off Emerson Lake and Palmer and became better than ELP for a short while.

But you have to listen ......... amazing.

465 BishopX  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:27:32pm

re: #460 lostlakehiker

You can get high crime because people realize that throwing their life away in a factory isn't going to get them squat, and that is honestly their best option. Physical labor started to die in the 1950s(not just manufacturing but longshoremen, masons, farmers, butchers...etc), Hunter S. Thompson wrote about it in 1967. America has been bleeding for a long time, and the crime waves of the 70s, 80s and 90s were just symptoms.

466 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:32:05pm

re: #104 b_sharp

An estimated loss of 80% in 200 years, forced isolation, and planned poverty meant new world aboriginals have had nothing but a good time since 1492.

Nothing you said justifies the 'unique' position they hold in our culture.

Almost all of that population loss over the time span from say 1550 to 1750 was the result of a mismatch between the immune systems of the American Indians, and the disease pool the immigrants brought with them from the old continent.

Europe and the Middle East were the crossroads of humanity, and as a result, the place where more and deadlier diseases developed. The immigrants didn't understand much of anything about those diseases either, but they had a genome which was somewhat adapted to the diseases they brought with them.

These diseases were the leading cause of death across Europe. They took a terrible toll everywhere. But in the Americas, they got a shot at peoples with no prior exposure and they took a yet more terrible toll.

This wasn't part of any plan. It was a disappointment to Europeans that Indians tended to die of those diseases. Two reasons: many European pioneers took Indian wives, and quite naturally they were sad to lose them. Not all died---the unions proved fruitful and the survivors were well placed to ride the wave of population growth among Europeans.

The other reason not so noble---for a little while, Europeans imagined they could take Indians slave. Taking them was not that difficult. But keeping them alive proved to be impossible. A disappointment of sorts.

467 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:32:17pm

re: #464 Mr Pancakes

Not my cup of tea, really, but upding anyway.

468 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:34:40pm

re: #429 elizajane

My father made no secret of his desire that I marry a Chinese man. He seems to think that they are the only race as or more intelligent than Jews, and (having married a non-Jew himself) he was not going to insist that I marry a Jew.

But I circumvented that whole marriage/genetics thing and just adopted Chinese (and Kazakh) children.

Whether he's right or not is moot when it comes to marrying. Individuals have individual decisions to make. I guess as they go to school you'll find out for yourself if he was right.

469 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:35:06pm

re: #467 Slumbering Behemoth

Not my cup of tea, really, but upding anyway.

Thanks ..... I know..... i had hopes for you when you posted Aphrodite's Child..... SLAYER it is then.

470 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:37:43pm

re: #469 Mr Pancakes

Thanks ... I know... i had hopes for you when you posted Aphrodite's Child... SLAYER it is then.

Heh, the first time I hear that AC song was also the first time I dosed. I played that damn song over and over to the point that my friends wanted to kill me.

471 lostlakehiker  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:38:31pm

re: #465 BishopX

You can get high crime because people realize that throwing their life away in a factory isn't going to get them squat, and that is honestly their best option. Physical labor started to die in the 1950s(not just manufacturing but longshoremen, masons, farmers, butchers...etc), Hunter S. Thompson wrote about it in 1967. America has been bleeding for a long time, and the crime waves of the 70s, 80s and 90s were just symptoms.

Crime waves are first and foremost a symptom of a failure of will on the part of the authorities. Throwing your life away in jail isn't going to get you squat either. In a setting where the laws have teeth, crime is almost always a really stupid option. Most people aren't really stupid, and as a result, crime is kept within reason, to where it doesn't sink the city or propel people to flight.

The death of physical labor has skipped the furniture moving business and I'd bet some others. What's more, there's an endless demand for conscientious workmen who can do home repair work, lay tile, replace roofs, and on and on. People who aren't going to get a college degree are far from useless and powerless in the job market.

472 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:41:29pm

re: #470 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh, the first time I hear that AC song was also the first time I dosed. I played that damn song over and over to the point that my friends wanted to kill me.

When it comes to speed metal I'm not up to snuff....... I do like Metallica and Megadeth......... but I have some metal that makes those two sound like Barry Manilow.

473 sizzleRI  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:47:43pm

re: #471 lostlakehiker

Crime waves are first and foremost a symptom of a failure of will on the part of the authorities. Throwing your life away in jail isn't going to get you squat either. In a setting where the laws have teeth, crime is almost always a really stupid option. Most people aren't really stupid, and as a result, crime is kept within reason, to where it doesn't sink the city or propel people to flight.

The death of physical labor has skipped the furniture moving business and I'd bet some others. What's more, there's an endless demand for conscientious workmen who can do home repair work, lay tile, replace roofs, and on and on. People who aren't going to get a college degree are far from useless and powerless in the job market.

Well, no. To all of that.

474 shai_au  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:54:14pm

re: #462 shai_au

I'll save you the trouble, mate.

/glutton for punishment

Oh, look at that. Another slippery slope argument.

/drinks

Again.

Is the concern really about the gayness of a fellow soldier? Or is it the fact that war can sometimes be a bloody affair and latex is not always available. How about the need for mouth-to-mouth? Do we want our military to hesitate to render aid due to biological concerns? Yes, we try to screen out any HIV active personnel. But said activity can be acquired while home on leave. The DADT repeal is designed to further the gay agenda while simultaneously weakening our defenses. And no, I am not homophobic in the least. But, I am a realist.

I do admit, "gay soldiers will give straight soldiers AIDS" is one of the less-common arguments.

Really need to stop doing this, but I... I just can't...

/drinks

475 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 10:58:33pm

re: #472 Mr Pancakes

When it comes to the really hard shit, Death has always been my favorite. Surprisingly thought provoking lyrics for that genre.

476 Gus  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:02:43pm

Criminology: Theories of crime

Social structure theories

This theory is applied to a variety of approaches within criminology in particular and in sociology more generally as a conflict theory or structural conflict perspective in sociology and sociology of crime. As this perspective is itself broad enough, embracing as it does a diversity of positions.

Social disorganization (neighborhoods)

Social disorganization theory is based on the work of Henry McKay and Clifford R. Shaw of the Chicago School. Social disorganization theory postulates that neighborhoods plagued with poverty and economic deprivation tend to experience high rates of population turnover. These neighborhoods also tend to have high population heterogeneity. With high turnover, informal social structure often fails to develop, which in turn makes it difficult to maintain social order in a community.

Social ecology

Since the 90s, social ecology studies have built on the social disorganization theories. Many studies have found that crime rates are associated with poverty, disorder, high numbers of abandoned buildings, and other signs of community deterioration. As working and middle class people leave deteriorating neighborhoods, the most disadvantaged portions of the population may remain. William Julius Wilson suggested a poverty "concentration effect", which may cause neighborhoods to be isolated from the mainstream of society and become prone to violence.

Strain theory (social class)

Strain theory, (also known as Mertonian Anomie), advanced by American sociologist Robert Merton, suggests that mainstream culture, especially in the United States, is saturated with dreams of opportunity, freedom and prosperity; as Merton put it, the American Dream. Most people buy into this dream and it becomes a powerful cultural and psychological motivation. Merton also used the term anomie, but it meant something slightly different for him than it did for Durkheim. Merton saw the term as meaning a dichotomy between what society expected of its citizens, and what those citizens could actually achieve. Therefore, if the social structure of opportunities is unequal and prevents the majority from realizing the dream, some of them will turn to illegitimate means (crime) in order to realize it. Others will retreat or drop out into deviant subcultures (gang members, "hobos": urban homeless drunks and drug abusers).

Subcultural theory

Following on from the Chicago school and Strain Theory, and also drawing on Edwin Sutherland's idea of differential association, subcultural theorists focused on small cultural groups fragmenting away from the mainstream to form their own values and meanings about life.

Albert K. Cohen tied anomie theory with Freud's reaction formation idea, suggesting that delinquency among lower class youths is a reaction against the social norms of the middle class.6 Some youth, especially from poorer areas where opportunities are scarce, might adopt social norms specific to those places which may include "toughness" and disrespect for authority. Criminal acts may result when youths conform to norms of the deviant subculture.

Richard Cloward and Lloyd Ohlin suggested that delinquency can result from differential opportunity for lower class youth.8 Such youths may be tempted to take up criminal activities, choosing an illegitimate path that provides them more lucrative economic benefits than conventional, over legal options such as minimum wage-paying jobs available to them.8

British subcultural theorists focused more heavily on the issue of class, where some criminal activities were seen as 'imaginary solutions' to the problem of belonging to a subordinate class. A further study by the Chicago school looked at gangs and the influence of the interaction of gang leaders under the observation of adults...

477 Amory Blaine  Tue, Dec 21, 2010 11:22:41pm

Bryan Fischer advises you to Resist the Green Dragon !!!!

[Link: www.resistingthegreendragon.com...]

478 SpaceJesus  Wed, Dec 22, 2010 12:48:25am

it's like republicans live on some other planet yet are here in us and can vote

479 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, Dec 22, 2010 8:06:34am

re: #472 Mr Pancakes
IT"S YOUR FAULT!!!
You wished for a white Christmas but f&^$ed up the delivery address!!
/
So the U.N. will help legalize Peyote???
I'll need to chew on that a moment.....

480 Peter Kaufman  Wed, Dec 22, 2010 8:34:46am
"And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I'd like to remind them that as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves."

Kent Brockman

481 Wozza Matter?  Wed, Dec 22, 2010 9:15:52am

re: #306 EmmmieG

I recently discovered I have a sliver of New Amsterdam dutch. That came as a surprise.

If you leave it at the back of the fridge you soon know about it................


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