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Video: Perpetual Ocean

Modeling the oceans of Earth
Science • Views: 29,787

Here’s a tour de force video presentation from the NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center Scientific Visualization Studio, showing ocean surface currents around the world, reminiscent of a Van Gogh painting. This is a powerful illustration of how sophisticated and comprehensive scientific real-world modeling has become.

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439 comments

1 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:02:46pm

So very kewl! I wish I could understand more than the sheer beauty of it.

Why do the dates change on the upper right corner?

2 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:11:12pm

Patterico's raving like a loon on Twitter:

Wow. That's a Deputy District Attorney for LA County.

3 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:25:37pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Patterico's raving like a loon on Twitter:

Wow. That's a Deputy District Attorney for LA County.

Those who don't wear pants have no fear of exposure.

4 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:25:42pm

Biologos has created a graphic trying to visualize data from Pew and Gallup polls, about Americans and their beliefs on origins:

[Link: biologos.org...]

I really don't like the graphic. I think it is misleading in description and doesn't convey the importance of the Pew and Gallup surveys, whose importance is that they have run over many years.

5 austin_blue  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:28:36pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Patterico's raving like a loon on Twitter:

[Embedded content] Wow. That's a Deputy District Attorney for LA County.

Just logging on tonight. Had a City Commission meeting. Anyone out there who can give me a quick and dirty recap of what Patterico is raving about?

Thanks in advance.

6 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:29:42pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Somebody should can his ass.

7 Kragar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:29:47pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Patterico's raving like a loon on Twitter:

[Embedded content] Wow. That's a Deputy District Attorney for LA County.

I really don't want to see Patt exposing himself.

8 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:30:33pm

Time for me to go to bed.

Have a great evening all!

9 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:30:36pm

re: #6 ProGunLiberal

That "somebody" would be the DA, who up till now refuses to see or hear any evil.

10 Killgore Trout  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:31:13pm

lre: #3 Killgore Trout

Those who don't wear pants have no fear of exposure.

Although sunscreen is recommended.

11 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:32:17pm

re: #9 freetoken

Out of curiosity, who is the DA?

12 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:34:23pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Patterico's raving like a loon on Twitter:

Wow. That's a Deputy District Attorney for LA County.

That sounds like something a person being dragged away in a straightjacket says.

13 freetoken  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:34:59pm

re: #11 ProGunLiberal

Isn't it the LA office?

[Link: da.co.la.ca.us...]

14 Shvaughn  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:40:21pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Patterico's raving like a loon on Twitter:

[Embedded content] Wow. That's a Deputy District Attorney for LA County.

What is he even talking about? I'm kind of afraid to find out.

15 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:43:36pm

My mental health state is better now than on Sunday or Monday. Now, it is just industrial strength cynicism. Here is a message I have sent to a friend to summarize my thoughts.

For me, everything comes from Rationality. What Islam does for me is give me a base, a set of rules to keep me from disintegrating. However, I try to act according to what would be logical and statistical. However, faced with some statistics and logical issues in this case, I slide to the floor emotionally. (Though one friend pointed out the fact that many people my age won't care about what their parents say about their significant other's beliefs, so I don't worry as much about the religion aspect).

On the other hand, my interests are out in left field. Mainly Architecture (and Art, to a lesser point), Meteorology, Geography, and especially History. Who the flying hell I am going to find with those interests? Music and movies only goes so far. So, while I feel better, I also feel bitterly cynical about my chances because of my eccentricities.

The lady right now is trying to stop me from attacking myself. I largely have. However, I am much more cynical than either her or my grandparents on this. I need some sort of statistical, rational, or logical proof for the cynicism to break.

16 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:45:51pm

re: #15 ProGunLiberal

Also, I should mention that I would rather die than use the Internet for relationships. I've heard too many bad stories.

17 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:48:50pm

re: #14 Shvaughn

What is he even talking about? I'm kind of afraid to find out.

He's been ranting all day about "discovering a progressive plot" to plant offensive comments at his site.

18 Kragar  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:50:21pm

re: #17 Charles Johnson

He's been ranting all day about "discovering a progressive plot" to plant offensive comments at his site.

19 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:50:27pm

re: #17 Charles Johnson

A little paranoid isn't he?

Most people have a lot better things to do then plant comments at all hours of the day.

20 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:52:57pm

re: #3 Killgore Trout

Those who don't wear pants have no fear of exposure.

You rang?

21 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:54:10pm

re: #15 ProGunLiberal

My mental health state is better now than on Sunday or Monday. Now, it is just industrial strength cynicism. Here is a message I have sent to a friend to summarize my thoughts.

PLL, Art and Architecture can be used to charm a lady, if one knows what the lady likes. If you live in a place rich in Architectural history, as I do, you can incorporate your love of history into showing her the beauty of well done structures.

22 austin_blue  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 9:55:29pm

re: #21 Dark_Falcon

PLL, Art and Architecture can be used to charm a lady, if one knows what the lady likes. If you live in a place rich in Architectural history, as I do, you can incorporate your love of history into showing her the beauty of well done structures.

One trip to Oak Park ought to do it!

23 Shvaughn  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:00:01pm

re: #17 Charles Johnson

He's been ranting all day about "discovering a progressive plot" to plant offensive comments at his site.

Why doesn't he just screen comments, require registration, or otherwise delete the shitty comments he gets?

24 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:01:30pm

re: #22 austin_blue

One trip to Oak Park ought to do it!

Yeah, if you have the right preparation. The good thing about Oak Park and some other Cook County locations is that the incredible buildings are located right near (and in some cases contain) some excellent restaurants.

Oak Park is lovely in that regard, though. With example such as the old Marshall Field's building (lower floors are still retail and the owners do maintain the clocks on the corners) to the movie theater (a very nice Art Deco piece, the Pickwick in Park Ridge is also a good example of that theme), Oak Park has much to see for the Architecture lover.

25 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:02:31pm

re: #23 Shvaughn

Why doesn't he just screen comments, require registration, or otherwise delete the shitty comments he gets?

Because that would require him actually working, instead of just bitching about how evil the left is.

26 ProGunLiberal  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:04:34pm

re: #22 austin_blue

Which Oak Park? Seriously, I can count 15+

27 austin_blue  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:05:15pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, if you have the right preparation. The good thing about Oak Park and some other Cook County locations is that the incredible buildings are located right near (and in some cases contain) some excellent restaurants.

Oak Park is lovely in that regard, though. With example such as the old Marshall Field's building (lower floors are still retail and the owners do maintain the clocks on the corners) to the movie theater (a very nice Art Deco piece, the Pickwick in Park Ridge is also a good example of that theme), Oak Park has much to see for the Architecture lover.

I've got cousins in Park Ridge. But the glory of Oak Park is the concentration of Frank Lloyd Wright houses, including his own.

Oh, and Petersen's ice cream.

28 austin_blue  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:06:30pm

re: #26 ProGunLiberal

Which Oak Park? Seriously, I can count 15+

Illinois, west of downtown Shicaga.

29 Kronocide  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:08:01pm

re: #23 Shvaughn

Why doesn't he just screen comments, require registration, or otherwise delete the shitty comments he gets?

There's a War on Liberalism going on. Get with the program sissy boy.

30 Altermite  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:08:38pm

Anyone have advice on bike locks? I just had my second bike stolen in a month, and the store dude's advice was obviously worthless.

31 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:08:48pm

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

Because that would require him actually working, instead of just bitching about how evil the left is.

That, and it would likely alienate a large part of his readership while killing a great deal of traffic.

And crying "plant" is just a cover for the audience that is being targeted. No one can run a blog and actually be that mentally stunted as to believe every one of those comments is planted by operatives of the opposition.

32 austin_blue  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:09:26pm

re: #29 Kronocide

There's a War on Liberalism going on. Get with the program sissy boy.

I'm pretty girl Siobhan is a sissy girl.

(ducks)

33 Altermite  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:09:43pm

re: #31 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

And crying "plant" is just a cover for the audience that is being targeted. No one can run a blog and actually be that mentally stunted as to believe every one of those comments is planted by operatives of the opposition.

There's a quote, allegedly from einstein, vis a vis limits of the universe and human stupidity addressing this.

34 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:09:53pm

re: #30 Altermite

Anyone have advice on bike locks? I just had my second bike stolen in a month, and the store dude's advice was obviously worthless.

Where are you in Santa Cruz?

35 Shvaughn  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:10:48pm

re: #32 austin_blue

I'm pretty girl Siobhan is a sissy girl.

(ducks)

Aye, it's true, I'm a sissy girl.

36 austin_blue  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:11:15pm

re: #34 Gus

Where are you in Santa Cruz?

heh heh heh

Clever boots.

37 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:11:34pm

re: #29 Kronocide

There's a War on Liberalism going on. Get with the program sissy boy.

We are all Teddy Kennedy now. All we need is a "film noir" image of Ted to use as an avatar. Then get really weird with people on a daily basis.

38 Altermite  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:11:38pm

re: #34 Gus

Where are you in Santa Cruz?

Start near city hall, then drive 2900 miles more or less east.

39 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:11:48pm

re: #30 Altermite

Anyone have advice on bike locks? I just had my second bike stolen in a month, and the store dude's advice was obviously worthless.

Quick release wheels. Lock those to the frame, then carry that whole mess with you.

40 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:12:23pm

re: #38 Altermite

Start near city hall, then drive 2900 miles more or less east.

You try a Kryptonite lock?

41 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:13:00pm

re: #37 Gus

We are all Teddy Kennedy now.

No thanks. I'll just stay Behemoth.

42 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:13:58pm

re: #41 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

No thanks. I'll just stay Behemoth.

That's cherry picking and out of context. Try again.

//

43 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:15:15pm

re: #42 Gus

That's cherry.

I know. I'm pretty fresh.

44 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:16:52pm

re: #43 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

I know. I'm pretty fresh.

That was of course specifically planted.

//

45 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:17:41pm

re: #44 Gus

That was of course specifically planted.

//

Oh just leaf it be.

46 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:17:55pm

re: #27 austin_blue

I've got cousins in Park Ridge. But the glory of Oak Park is the concentration of Frank Lloyd Wright houses, including his own.

Oh, and Petersen's ice cream.

Surprising that you know about that last place. I agree entirely, of course.

47 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:19:06pm

re: #44 Gus

That was of course specifically planted.

//

Brother, it's a hard row to hoe.

48 Altermite  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:19:22pm

re: #40 Gus

Second bike had one. The back wheel and seat were stripped, with the gears utterly demolished in the process.

I'm thinking that maybe two would work?

49 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:21:08pm

re: #47 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Brother, it's a hard row to hoe.

As long as they continue to rake in the dings, they'll keep shoveling it out.

50 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:21:15pm

re: #45 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Oh just leaf it be.

Now you're just trying to seed dissent.

51 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:21:18pm

re: #48 Altermite

Second bike had one. The back wheel and seat were stripped, with the gears utterly demolished in the process.

I'm thinking that maybe two would work?

Get a cheaper bike is all I can think of.

52 Gus  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:21:57pm

re: #47 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Brother, it's a hard row to hoe.

My attorneys will call you in the morning!

53 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:23:39pm

re: #52 Gus

My attorneys will call you in the morning!

I've always wanted to say that. I don't have attorneys. I do have a couple of siblings with legal training, but I have the feeling they'd get mad at me if I claimed them as my legal team.

54 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:24:06pm

re: #51 Gus

Get a cheaper bike is all I can think of.

Really. If someone wants a thing bad enough to steal it, the only thing that will stop them is armed resistance. And even then, that has little guarantee of working.

55 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:25:00pm

re: #52 Gus

My attorneys will call you in the morning!

Then can try to plow me all they want, but I shall not turn.

56 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:29:00pm

re: #53 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I've always wanted to say that. I don't have attorneys. I do have a couple of siblings with legal training, but I have the feeling they'd get mad at me if I claimed them as my legal team.

Refer to them as your consiglieri.

It may still make your siblings mad, but it may also make your opponents pause for thought.

57 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:36:35pm

re: #54 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Really. If someone wants a thing bad enough to steal it, the only thing that will stop them is armed resistance. And even then, that has little guarantee of working.

No guarantee, but if you train well and make good plans, you can ensure that any confrontation will see you having fairly good odds.

58 abolitionist  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:37:52pm

Saw this earlier. It might be interesting to examine some ancient sea maps that have warnings of the sort There be dragons --to see if any such locations can be matched up with any large-scale eddies in the video.

The 1080p video rendering might not play well on some less-capable systems, so consider clicking the YouTube thing (bottom right), and then selecting 720p or 480p.

59 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:38:02pm

re: #56 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

Refer to them as your consiglieri.

It may still make your siblings mad, but it may also make your opponents pause for thought.

An offer that they can't refuse?

/

60 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:39:34pm

Good night, all.

61 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:39:40pm

re: #59 talon_262

A warning that should not go unheeded.

62 MittDoesNotCompute  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:40:49pm

Such as, "Leave the gun, take the cannoli"?

63 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:42:25pm

re: #62 talon_262

My people should not have to contact your people. Your people should not want them to.

64 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 10:52:01pm

re: #63 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks

That should be appended with numerous sarc tags.

65 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 11:13:35pm

The Gulf Stream is not mentioned in the Bible, therefore it's a liberal lie to say that it's there and affecting climate!

66 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 11:16:04pm

Good morning Lizards!

Last full day in Germany today. Another overcast day in "it's always sunny in the Rhineland Wesseling".

No chance to tourist this trip. Working til after 5-6pm every day and simply tired out most of the time. Good food and good beer in any case. And I hope to get back over here with time to explore within the next year.

Tomorrow will be the mad scramble to get back to Frankfurt with the rental car in time to catch an early afternoon flight back across the Van Gogh Sea. ;)

67 AK-47%  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 11:24:17pm

re: #66 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

You are going back just in time for the weather to turn to crap for Easter.

Come back in May/June or September/early October, then you get the best weathers. Summers have been a real washout of late.

But weather has been wierd here lately, global warming or not: last winter was the coldest I have experienced in 20-odd years of living here, winter before that the snowiest, but as a rule, the summer craps out at the end of June and does not return until September.

68 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 11:26:53pm

re: #23 Shvaughn

Why doesn't he just screen comments, require registration, or otherwise delete the shitty comments he gets?

Because that would require work on his part?

69 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 11:27:48pm

re: #53 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I've always wanted to say that. I don't have attorneys. I do have a couple of siblings with legal training, but I have the feeling they'd get mad at me if I claimed them as my legal team.

Pssst, don't tell them!

70 austin_blue  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 11:29:03pm

Gotta get to the rack. Tomorrow is the last work day of the week, since Our Governor Goodhair has given all of us a day off on Friday, when Baby Jeebus was tortured and killed, stepped on a rainbow, and went to Heaven.

Odd that we don't get Monday off instead, the day after he returned to Earth to achieve his Godhood. As a retired Catholic, a child of Vatican 2, fundamentalism creeps me out.

71 ozbloke  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 11:37:24pm

re: #70 austin_blue

Gotta get to the rack. Tomorrow is the last work day of the week, since Our Governor Goodhair has given all of us a day off on Friday, when Baby Jeebus was tortured and killed, stepped on a rainbow, and went to Heaven.

Odd that we don't get Monday off instead, the day after he returned to Earth to achieve his Godhood. As a retired Catholic, a child of Vatican 2, fundamentalism creeps me out.

Glad to hear your happy to get a day off with pay.
Perhaps you can spend it here and trash the beliefs of millions of other people of faith.

72 AK-47%  Wed, Apr 4, 2012 11:51:01pm

re: #70 austin_blue

Gotta get to the rack. Tomorrow is the last work day of the week, since Our Governor Goodhair has given all of us a day off on Friday, when Baby Jeebus was tortured and killed, stepped on a rainbow, and went to Heaven.

Odd that we don't get Monday off instead, the day after he returned to Earth to achieve his Godhood. As a retired Catholic, a child of Vatican 2, fundamentalism creeps me out.

What do Rick Perry and Fidel Castro have in common then? They have both made Good Friday a holiday!!!

I sorta understand as Good Friday is a major, major holiday to Catholics, who make up a lot of the population in Texas. Germany gets both Friday and Monday off.

And Germans have a holiday on Corpus Christi (June 7th), which is not a holiday in Texas, just a city.

73 Amory Blaine  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 12:19:56am

Vox Hand-Wired AC15HW1X

Anyone have an opinion on this amp?

74 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 12:23:22am

re: #73 Amory Blaine

Vox Hand-Wired AC15HW1X

Anyone have an opinion on this amp?

does it go up to 11?

75 ozbloke  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 12:36:24am

re: #73 Amory Blaine

Vox Hand-Wired AC15HW1X

Anyone have an opinion on this amp?

There's nothing like the warmth you can get with valves.

76 freetoken  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 12:40:35am

re: #73 Amory Blaine

re: #75 ozbloke

15 Watts... not going to be a very warm heater.

I'm a bit shocked at the ticker price. Used to be old tube amps could be had for less. Who would have guessed 40 years ago that tube amps would become priceless goods?

77 ozbloke  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 12:43:52am

re: #76 freetoken

re: #75 ozbloke

15 Watts... not going to be a very warm heater.

I'm a bit shocked at the ticker price. Used to be old tube amps could be had for less. Who would have guessed 40 years ago that tube amps would become priceless goods?

Didn't look at the specs.
15w, bugger that's a lot of money.
Makes me long for the days when I had my Fender Twin

78 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 12:44:43am

re: #67 Expand Your Ground

You are going back just in time for the weather to turn to crap for Easter.

Come back in May/June or September/early October, then you get the best weathers. Summers have been a real washout of late.

But weather has been wierd here lately, global warming or not: last winter was the coldest I have experienced in 20-odd years of living here, winter before that the snowiest, but as a rule, the summer craps out at the end of June and does not return until September.

There were a couple of nice days mixed in the past two weeks. Weather here and back in Philadelphia is roughly similar right now. Overcast, drizzly, and cool.

79 ozbloke  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 12:47:19am

re: #76 freetoken

re: #75 ozbloke

15 Watts... not going to be a very warm heater.

I'm a bit shocked at the ticker price. Used to be old tube amps could be had for less. Who would have guessed 40 years ago that tube amps would become priceless goods?

Looking at the price of the vox, I'd rather have this:
[Link: www.ebay.com...]

80 freetoken  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 12:58:52am
81 Amory Blaine  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 1:16:34am

Thing is I'm going to use this in the house so the volume has to be somewhat subdued. If you don't crank the tube amps, you don't get the full richness of sound. Meaning it's better to get a smaller amp and crank it than to get a larger amp and turn it down.

82 researchok  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 1:27:19am

Morning, all

83 researchok  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 1:32:37am

re: #80 freetoken

That'll get you to swayin' and toe tappin'.

I'll be humming that all day.

84 freetoken  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 2:23:19am
85 EdDantes  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 2:53:30am

I just watched another Cialis commercial. What is "reptile dysfunction?"

86 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 2:53:32am

re: #76 freetoken

re: #75 ozbloke

15 Watts... not going to be a very warm heater.

I'm a bit shocked at the ticker price. Used to be old tube amps could be had for less. Who would have guessed 40 years ago that tube amps would become priceless goods?

hand built dude!

of course you can get a tube amp for less, Blackhearts are what,m $300?

87 ozbloke  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:03:32am

re: #86 windupbird is in the gravity well

hand built dude!

of course you can get a tube amp for less, Blackhearts are what,m $300?

Dude! Dude,
Your replying to the wrong person.

Hope all is well with you and yours WUB

88 freetoken  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:22:49am

re: #85 EdDantes

I just watched another Cialis commercial. What is "reptile dysfunction?"

It's what killed off the dinosaurs.

89 EdDantes  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:30:30am

re: #88 freetoken

Thanks. I gotta get me some of that.

90 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:31:19am

Hey all!

It's morning! I'm awake and HEADACHE FREE!

whoooo-hoooo!

downside is I'll probably have to accomplish today everything I didn't the last two days :)

How is it wit' you?

91 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:32:02am

re: #85 EdDantes

I just watched another Cialis commercial. What is "reptile dysfunction?"

slow hampsters.

92 freetoken  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:35:34am
93 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:48:53am

re: #87 ozbloke

Dude! Dude,
Your replying to the wrong person.

Hope all is well with you and yours WUB

all's well! busy but fine ^_^

94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:49:07am

re: #87 ozbloke

Dude! Dude,
Your replying to the wrong person.

Hope all is well with you and yours WUB

also, lol that was to ft, not you

95 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:54:08am

What is a gravity well?

A gravity well is the pull of gravity that a large body in space exerts. The larger the body (the more mass) the more of a gravity well it has. The Sun has a large (or deep) gravity well. Asteroids and small moons have much shallower gravity wells. Anything on a planet or moon is considered to be at the bottom of the gravity well. Entering space from the surface of a planet or moon means climbing out of the gravity well, something that often takes a huge amount of energy. The larger a planet or moon's gravity well is, the more energy it takes to achieve escape velocity and blast a ship off of it.

96 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:57:52am

re: #90 ggt

Hey all!

It's morning! I'm awake and HEADACHE FREE!

whooo-hooo!

downside is I'll probably have to accomplish today everything I didn't the last two days :)

How is it wit' you?

Well fed, not too busy, and contemplating the drive tomorrow and flight from Germany back to the US.

And practicing my "Nein Nein Nein" policy on a new user who keeps asking for access to programs deemed security risks by the bosses.

97 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 3:58:32am

Germany! Well you have been places this week!

98 EdDantes  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:06:59am

re: #95 ggt

"Once you are in orbit, you are half way to anywhere." -Heinlein

99 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:10:29am
100 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:14:34am

kickshaw

PRONUNCIATION:
(KIK-shaw)

MEANING:
noun:
1. A fancy dish; delicacy.
2. A trinket.

ETYMOLOGY:
From phonetic respelling of French quelque chose (something) as kickshaws which was treated as a plural and turned into the singular kickshaw. Earliest documented use: 1598.

In case you need a word rhyming with rickshaw.

101 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:16:47am

And for those who have no idea of French (me):

quelque chose
[edit]French

[edit]Pronoun
quelque chose
something, abbreviated as: qqch.
quelque chose + de + adjective
something which has a characteristic of the adjective
quelque chose de typique
Something typical

102 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:20:01am

re: #97 ggt

Germany! Well you have been places this week!

Been there the last two weeks. My "night owl" comments are actually made about 8am here.

Next week I will be doing "graveyard shift" in the US to continue support of the go-live work here in Germany. So then my night owl comments will be true ones!

103 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:21:59am

re: #98 EdDantes

"Once you are in orbit, you are half way to anywhere." -Heinlein

Now, I just need to figure-out if WUB is on Earth or some other gravity well.

104 Lidane  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:22:53am

Morning, Lizards! John Cole over at Balloon Juice answered his readers wondering why he switched parties:

I think the meanness of the GOP was a big part of it. The outing people on the internet, the religious fanatics, the attempts to get people fired, the absolute unwillingness to ever admit error, the smearing of the Schiavo’s husband, the gay-bashing, etc. Even if I bought into wingnut bullshit, I never thought of myself as a hater. And let’s be clear- I can be a colossal dick, but I’m not by nature a hater. I think you can understand the difference. I’m a live and let live kind of guy, I prefer growing things and nurturing things to destroying them, but I have no problem chucking hand grenades or shooting first if I think it is an imperative. I’ll help anyone who asks for it, but I’ll also not flinch before punching someone in the neck if I think they are threatening someone or something I love.

And while Republicans may very well have been crazy for decades, the outright ugliness, I think, has escalated beyond measure. The hideous treatment of Graeme Frost was the final straw, I guess. It was just the last, final, “WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?” moment. You see the same thing from the same folks as they viciously attack Trayvon Martin for his horrible sin of being gunned down in cold blood.

But again, I will never know why it took so long. It’s not easy looking at everything you thought you knew and saying “Wow, was I ever full of shit.” But eventually, if you have two remaining brain cells bouncing around your thick noggin, the amount of evidence becomes unavoidable and undeniable.

Even for someone who voted for Bush twice.

105 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:26:36am

re: #104 Lidane

Thanks for posting this. Now that's some righteous rant!

106 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:31:39am

How did I miss this? Must have been during my Sci-Fi self-exile.

but it seems to be old news, why did Cole reference it now.

Then again, I don't know a thing about Cole.

107 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:35:02am
During the administration of George W. Bush, two attempts to expand funding for the program failed when President Bush vetoed them. Mr. Bush argued that such efforts were steps toward federalization of health care, and would "steer the program away from its core purpose of providing insurance for poor children and toward covering children from middle-class families."[10] On February 4, 2009, President Barack Obama signed the Children's Health Insurance Reauthorization Act of 2009, expanding the healthcare program to an additional 4 million children and pregnant women, including for the first time legal immigrants without a waiting period.

Fuck Bush.

108 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:38:00am

re: #106 ggt

How did I miss this? Must have been during my Sci-Fi self-exile.

but it seems to be old news, why did Cole reference it now.

Then again, I don't know a thing about Cole.

Sliming sick 12-year olds. That's the far-right establishment for ya!

109 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:40:10am
110 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:42:21am

Science-Fiction is reality. NO SHIT!

Google Glasses.

Google has revealed details of its research into augmented reality glasses.

It posted a brief introduction to Project Glass, photos and a concept video at its Google+ social network.

The images show a minimalist design with a microphone and partly-transparent video screen that places information over the view from the users' right eye.

The product's developers said they wanted feedback on the idea.

They did not give any indication about when the device might go on sale or what it would cost.

"A group of us... started Project Glass to build this kind of technology, one that helps you explore and share your world, putting you back in the moment," said a statement from Google X - the firm's experimental lab.

"We're sharing this information now because we want to start a conversation and learn from your valuable input."

111 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:45:07am

re: #110 ggt

Wow. Now imagine when/if the scientists will be able to reliably read the brainwaves for thoughts (there are already some first steps taken on this road). And couple with this tech.

112 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:48:32am

re: #111 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Wow. Now imagine when/if the scientists will be able to reliably read the brainwaves for thoughts (there are already some first steps taken on this road). And couple with this tech.

I'm still reeling from Vernor Vinge's version of the Future in Rainbow's End. Instead of google glasses, it's contacts and special clothing to work the intertoobs --micro-royalties based on who tunes into your life.

Not so far fetched.

113 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:49:18am
114 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:51:37am

re: #113 ggt

"The pandas seemed happy to wrestle, but did not take things further"

LOL.

I'm almost afraid to ask: cannot this be done artificially?

115 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 4:57:36am

re: #114 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

"The pandas seemed happy to wrestle, but did not take things further"

LOL.

I'm almost afraid to ask: cannot this be done artificially?

I don't know. I still don't understand how Panda's survive in the wild. They only eat one thing -bamboo. I don't it has much protein in it. They don't seem very good at making babies.

I have a feeling they'd have been extinct long ago if not for zoo's.

116 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:00:02am
Google maps in stores?
Yeah Right! In the future you will apparently need
permission from google to rearrange the furniture.
dejey9410 11 minutes ago 21
117 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:01:15am

re: #115 ggt

Yeah, kinda, too specialized for the environmental changes.

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:03:22am

re: #117 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Yeah, kinda, too specialized for the environmental changes.

Even when they

do more than wrestle

, it rarely seems to "take".

119 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:03:51am

re: #118 ggt

Then again, maybe it's because they're in confinement.

120 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:05:24am

Oh, look what I found:

Initially the primary method of breeding giant pandas in captivity was by artificial insemination, as they seemed to lose their interest in mating once they were captured.[66] This led some scientists to try extreme methods such as showing them videos of giant pandas mating[67] and giving the males Viagra.[68] Only recently have researchers started having success with captive breeding programs, and they have now determined that giant pandas have comparable breeding to some populations of the American black bear, a thriving bear family. The current reproductive rate is considered one young every two years.[12][24]

121 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:06:01am
122 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:06:04am

re: #119 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost
I think they have even tried Panda porn, hot stuff!

123 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:06:32am

re: #120 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Oh, look what I found:

GMTA!

wiki!

124 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:07:38am

This makes me a hot sad panda.

125 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:09:16am

re: #124 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

This makes me a hot sad panda.

awwww

126 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:10:06am

OMG--cuteness alert.

127 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:10:13am
128 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:10:52am

re: #126 ggt

OMG--cuteness alert.

Dirty panda. ///

129 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:11:58am

re: #128 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Dirty panda. ///

probably stinky too!

130 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:12:44am

re: #129 ggt

probably stinky too!

That's his name! Stinky the Panda. Cousin of Stinky Beaumont. /

131 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:13:56am

Well, I'm off for a while.

Have a great day all!

And stay away from Stinky the Panda -- his cluebat has claws.

132 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:23:57am

re: #85 EdDantes

I just watched another Cialis commercial. What is "reptile dysfunction?"

When your chameleon tongue does not extend fully?

133 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:25:58am

Responding to KT's comment in the last thread:

When the press fails to inform the public accurately bad things happen. Zimmerman may walk, maybe from genuine innocence or from a technicality. The press has spread enough misinformation, conjecture and questionable forensic "science" that the public isn't informed enough to make sense of the case. It's a potential derpfest with very serious consequences.

I think the press did not do worse - or better - than in most other cases in the past, and certainly with far less serious consequences than in some cases (see: Iraq war). I also think that those who may have jumped to conclusions (e.g. that it was anything but murder - even though it could be, say, manslaughter) did this by themselves, not because somebody on the news said it was murder.

The NBC debacle was atrocious, but I learned about it only after it was exposed. Nobody here made conclusions based on the doctored tape. It was not offered as an argument. I did not like the "forensic experts proved" reports too, but they were a pretty standard fare. "Designated expert saying something or other". Some other details were questionable too (like the widespread but unproven meme of "100 lb difference in weight"). But on the whole, I don't see the reporting of this case in the mainstream media as as a fail, much less an epic fail.

134 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:31:26am

re: #114 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

"The pandas seemed happy to wrestle, but did not take things further"

LOL.

I'm almost afraid to ask: cannot this be done artificially?

I seem to remember that is the standard approach in zoos, they were trying to do it naturally this time. How do they survive in the wild? Tell me, would your girlfriend be willing to even start to make out with you if you were confined to a cage box with people loking in on you?

135 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:32:12am

re: #134 Expand Your Ground

Heh.

136 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:37:47am

re: #134 Expand Your Ground

oooh!
tell me more
/

137 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:39:45am

re: #95 ggt

What is a gravity well?

Curved space causing a depression from an object. Depth of well depends on the mass of the object depressing it. Now if we could only rectify this all with Quantum plank scale.

138 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:41:15am

GREENWICH -- A driving while intoxicated charge filed against an Argyle man who used a vehicle contact system to report that he was too drunk to drive has been dropped

Read more: [Link: poststar.com...]

139 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:41:57am

I recall a scene from "Slaughterhouse-5", where he is being held in a cage on Tralfamadore together with photo model Montana Wildhack

Billy: Now we would like The night canopy.
Tralfamadorians: Why do you wish The night canopy ?
B: Because we want it !
T: Will you mate ?
B:We hardly know each other ! Do you mind if we take time To get better acquainted ?
T: You are acting very unnaturally.
B: We would like The night canopy.
T: Oh, very well. [ spectators groan ]

140 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:44:47am

Morning Lizardim.

141 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:49:23am

re: #138 Tommy's cone of shame

GREENWICH -- A driving while intoxicated charge filed against an Argyle man who used a vehicle contact system to report that he was too drunk to drive has been dropped

Read more: [Link: poststar.com...]

There was a case in Germany where the police arrested a fellow sitting in his idling car while intoxicated. he was acquitted: according to the law, he was only in violation of DWI laws once he pulled out into traffic.

142 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 5:53:11am

re: #138 Tommy's cone of shame

GREENWICH -- A driving while intoxicated charge filed against an Argyle man who used a vehicle contact system to report that he was too drunk to drive has been dropped

Read more: [Link: poststar.com...]

See, this is where the outrage about the police not arresting Zimmerman originates. They can arrest the guy for doing the right thing, but they do not arrest the guy for shooting someone under suspicious circumstances.

143 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:00:37am

Not mine:

"You can't believe everything you read on the internet."
-- Mark Twain

/

144 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:20:26am

Heh. Just a tip. You know how at South Park Studios site you can't access newer episodes after some time?

You can access them with the direct link.

E.g. here's the new episode that is available:

www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/standalone,do-not-link-directly-to-this-page?c=409747

The episode before it is grayed out on the site, but you can watch it at

www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/standalone,do-not-link-directly-to-this-page?c=409746

etc.

145 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:26:15am

Good Morning Honcos!

I've been away from Lizardom this week as we are on our domestic travel for my Industry Study. We've been in Silicon Valley this week visiting Cisco, Apple, Brocade, Facebook, Google, Juniper and today Oracle. Probably going into San Fran tonight for dinner then back to DC tomorrow. Great trip, very interesting companies (also incredibly different cultures at each).

146 Sheila Broflovski  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:33:39am

re: #144 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Heh. Just a tip. You know how at South Park Studios site you can't access newer episodes after some time?

You can access them with the direct link.

E.g. here's the new episode that is available:

www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/standalone,do-not-link-directly-to-this-page?c=409747

The episode before it is grayed out on the site, but you can watch it at

www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/standalone,do-not-link-directly-to-this-page?c=409746

etc.

If you miss an episode on TV, you can download it from ThePirateBay, although it's not recommended.

Last night's episode was pretty good.

147 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:36:09am

re: #146 Learned Mother of Zion

Yeah, I know, I just prefer watching on the site. Recently I've been watching all the episodes I missed (starting with ep. 7 last year) and found this "direct streaming" link.

148 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:37:23am

Something from the papers this morning:

Does 5-4, 5-4, 5-4, 5-4, 5-4...start to sound familiar to anyone else, as in partisan politics versus legal brilliance?

Men in Black

149 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:44:56am

re: #148 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Something from the papers this morning:

Does 5-4, 5-4, 5-4, 5-4, 5-4...start to sound familiar to anyone else, as in partisan politics versus legal brilliance?

Men in Black

Dowd is such a crybaby "There are 5 Republican appointed justices and I don't like the way they vote!" As if Kennedy was a reliable conservative vote. Please.

150 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:45:04am

re: #148 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

She seems bitter

151 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:45:48am

re: #150 Tommy's cone of shame

She seems bitter

It is the total accumulation of red hair dye over the years. Taking its toll...

152 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:47:53am

re: #149 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Why, I think it's totally fair to throw "judicial activism" accusation back in the conservative faces.

153 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:49:17am

re: #149 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Dowd is such a crybaby "There are 5 Republican appointed justices and I don't like the way they vote!" As if Kennedy was a reliable conservative vote. Please.

You don't think the numbers say anything? It strikes me that we could just as well appoint 5 Republican congressmen, or senators, and 4 Democrats to do the same job and get the same results.

154 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:50:07am

re: #149 Darth Vader Gargoyle

She's entirely right that Scalia's interpretation of the Commerce Clause entirely depends on whether the issue is one favored by Republicans or Democrats.

155 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:50:10am

It's your turn, guys. You made this bed.

156 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:50:53am

re: #149 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Dowd is such a crybaby "There are 5 Republican appointed justices and I don't like the way they vote!" As if Kennedy was a reliable conservative vote. Please.

Seriously? Kennedy of the "I think strip searches for the most minor offense are perfectly fine because hey, they might be a criminal" ruling?

157 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:50:55am

re: #153 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

You don't think the numbers say anything? It strikes me that we could just as well appoint 5 Republican congressmen, or senators, and 4 Democrats to do the same job and get the same results.

Yep. And when Scalia dies of a massive coronary, the numbers will shift back.

158 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:53:03am

re: #156 Interesting Times

Seriously? Kennedy of the "I think strip searches for the most minor offense are perfectly fine because hey, they might be a criminal" ruling?

Citizen, if you don't commit a crime you have nothing to fear.
//

159 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:53:28am

re: #156 Interesting Times

I don't think him drafting the Lawrence v. Texas makes him a liberal either. A no-brainer decision, except for far-right extremists like Scalia and Thomas. So Kennedy is a conservative moderate at max.

160 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:53:53am

re: #157 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Yep. And when Scalia dies of a massive coronary, the numbers will shift back.

So, you agree that the court is just an extension of the usual politics, but on a different election schedule?

Do you think that is how it was intended by the constitution framers?

161 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:54:01am

re: #156 Interesting Times

Seriously? Kennedy of the "I think strip searches for the most minor offense are perfectly fine because hey, they might be a criminal" ruling?

Kennedy has been the foil in many cases over the years. Part of his charm is that he isn't dependable to vote straight party line. I'm with you and disagree with his vote in this case, but it is just one case.

162 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:54:38am

re: #160 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

So, you agree that the court is just an extension of the usual politics, but on a different election schedule?

Do you think that is how it was intended by the constitution framers?

It's how it would work regardless of how it's intended. You can't make it work otherwise.

163 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:54:44am

re: #160 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

So, you agree that the court is just an extension of the usual politics, but on a different election schedule?

Do you think that is how it was intended by the constitution framers?

Yes
No

164 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:55:57am

Cynics abound this morning...

165 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:56:02am

re: #156 Interesting Times

Seriously? Kennedy of the "I think strip searches for the most minor offense are perfectly fine because hey, they might be a criminal" ruling?

Morning. I have mixed feelings about that ruling. Put simply, I think it's a good idea to check everyone that enters a jail for weapons in any part of their body. This is most easily done through strip searches. It doesn't force the cops to perform strip searches neither does it provide guidance in how to perform said searches. But the most important reasoning I could see is for jail house safety.

166 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:57:24am

re: #165 Gus

I, for one, got back in line!
/
"Thank you, may i have another!"

167 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:57:57am

re: #161 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Kennedy has been the foil in many cases over the years. Part of his charm is that he isn't dependable to vote straight party line. I'm with you and disagree with his vote in this case, but it is just one case.

Quality matters just as much if not more than quantity. When he does "vote straight party line", it's on cases that have hideously dangerous and long-term ramifications. I'm disgusted and quite frankly horrified that this conservative activist court seems beholden to pissing all over individual rights, while simultaneously extending the powers of police and corporations.

168 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:58:05am

re: #164 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Cynics abound this morning...

There are no checks and balances on the SCOTUS decisions, right? So what, except "good will", will make the judges not be politicians?

169 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:59:28am

What was the average life expectancy in 1776?

//

170 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 6:59:48am
In a close 5-4 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that people who are arrested, even for minor offenses, may be strip searched before they are admitted to jail, even if there is no reasonable suspicion they are in possession of drugs, weapons or other contraband. And the case is expected to have implications for black men who are disproportionately stopped by the police.

The case, Florence v. Board of Chosen Freeholders, involved Albert Florence -- a black man and a car dealership finance director -- who was arrested by a New Jersey state trooper for a warrant on an unpaid fine. Florence had actually paid the fine.

Over the course of two days, Florence was taken to two jails. In the first jail he was ordered to strip in a shower with a delousing agent, open his mouth and lift his tongue, and lift his genitals. He was subjected to a similarly invasive strip search in the second facility, in the presence of other inmates.

[Link: www.thegrio.com...]

171 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:01:54am

re: #168 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

There are no checks and balances on the SCOTUS decisions, right? So what, except "good will", will make the judges not be politicians?

You mean other than amending the constitution right? ;)

172 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:02:33am

re: #171 Darth Vader Gargoyle

You mean other than amending the constitution right? ;)

To get rid of SCOTUS?

173 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:03:08am

re: #172 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

To get rid of SCOTUS?

No to derail a SCOTUS decision.

174 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:03:49am

re: #165 Gus

Morning. I have mixed feelings about that ruling. Put simply, I think it's a good idea to check everyone that enters a jail for weapons in any part of their body. This is most easily done through strip searches. It doesn't force the cops to perform strip searches neither does it provide guidance in how to perform said searches. But the most important reasoning I could see is for jail house safety.

Is this reasoning applicable to airplanes? I.e., if the TSA scanning machine breaks down, it's strip searches for everyone?

175 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:04:10am

re: #170 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

[Link: www.thegrio.com...]

It was unfortunate that they had to use that case to make that decision. There a lot of things wrong in how Florence's situation was handled. But most of that was irrelevant. My main concern would be weapons, weapons, weapons. I personally wouldn't care about them bringing in drugs to a jail since it helps the inmates "pass the time." ;) But I think it' really important to keep the presence of weapons out of the jail cells. You know how in the movies they show a bunch of guys in one cell waiting to go before the judge? Well, it's like that. You don't know who these guys are. Even if they're in for unpaid parking tickets. It doesn't hurt anyone to simply strip down and take a shower. If you think about it also makes for a more pleasant experience to the nose and health wise.

176 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:04:12am

re: #167 Interesting Times

Quality matters just as much if not more than quantity. When he does "vote straight party line", it's on cases that have hideously dangerous and long-term ramifications. I'm disgusted and quite frankly horrified that this conservative activist court seems beholden to pissing all over individual rights, while simultaneously extending the powers of police and corporations.

We should just simplify things and privatize the police, right after we strip their right to form unions and/or strike.
///

177 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:04:22am

re: #173 Darth Vader Gargoyle

No to derail a SCOTUS decision.

That won't stop judges from being politicians.

178 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:06:03am

re: #174 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Is this reasoning applicable to airplanes? I.e., if the TSA scanning machine breaks down, it's strip searches for everyone?

I don't think it's the same thing. Different environments. Different reasoning. Strip searches by the TSA would be done on a case by case basis. However, since I don't believe in profiling. I think everyone should be subjected to about the same scrutiny. But that's for ordinary people that won't be holed up behind steel bars in a jail cell with one toilet mixed in with minor offenders and many times violent criminals.

179 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:06:07am

re: #165 Gus

Morning. I have mixed feelings about that ruling. Put simply, I think it's a good idea to check everyone that enters a jail for weapons in any part of their body. This is most easily done through strip searches.

I suggest reviewing the case which brought about the ruling:

Florence said he went from the elation of having just bought a new home — the family was headed to a celebratory dinner — to the degradation of a strip search. And the arrest warrant was in error. Florence had paid the fine.

"It was a big shock," Florence, 36, the finance director at a car dealership, recalled before Wednesday's Supreme Court case over his ordeal. "I had just finished purchasing a home. It was a huge accomplishment to be living the American dream. Then, in a matter of moments, I was being processed like an inmate. … After that all happened, I cried, and I hadn't cried since I was a child. I just had so much emotion from being scared, humiliated."

Remember the infamous Egyptian "virginity tests", solely designed to humiliate and degrade female protesters? What's to stop bullying jerks who happen to have a badge from using strip searches in a similar manner? People arrested for ridiculous "you can't hold a sign near the legislature" laws could get targeted with this fascist garbage.

181 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:08:22am

re: #178 Gus

I don't think it's the same thing. Different environments. Different reasoning. Strip searches by the TSA would be done on a case by case basis. However, since I don't believe in profiling. I think everyone should be subjected to about the same scrutiny. But that's for ordinary people that won't be holed up behind steel bars in a jail cell with one toilet mixed in with minor offenders and many times violent criminals.

So you support strip searches for everyone coming into jail?

182 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:09:27am

re: #177 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

That won't stop judges from being politicians human.

183 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:09:38am

Morning Honcos.

184 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:10:04am

re: #183 Cannadian Club Akbar

Morning Honcos.

Fuck off
/

185 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:10:26am

Judicial activism and strict constructionism can and do go hand in hand. Recall that Marbury v. Madison, which instituted a policy of judicial review, came into existence through an act of reading something into the Constitution that isn't there in the plain language. Judicial review was something that other courts had engaged in - both in the colonies/states contemporaneous to the pre- and post-Revolutionary War era and the enactment of the Constitution, but the Supreme Court had yet to act on the principle.

Yet every decision by the Court thereafter has used that decision to review the law and decide whether something is constitutional or not. It's the way that the Court can read that X is constitutional and in the Framer's intent or not.

So, if you're truly a strict constructionist, you would also have to agree that judicial review isn't in the Court's purview and it should be struck down. That's not going to happen, so the position takes a hit.

Yet, there are limits to what the Constitution says and does - and its silence doesn't necessarily mean assent to a given course of action or conduct. The Bill of Rights picks things up from there, and highlights limitations on what the federal government can or can't do (which itself is limited by what Congress can or can't do - and under Art I, Sec. 8, there's not much that Congress can't do).

It's that last part that the Conservatives on the Bench seem to have problems with, including on the HCR case. Congress can enact laws to promote the general welfare and health care reform is certainly part of the general welfare.

A significant problem is the way that the mandate is formulated and penalty provisions are written into the tax code. But just don't call it a tax (at least in some formulations of the defense of the HCR). It would have been far better to simply increase taxes to high income earners (and eliminate the AMT by setting a COLA provision on high income earners making $1 or more and pegging them to the at least highest rate in effect pre-EGTRRA and JGTRRA and eliminating deductions/credits and other limitations so that they would see effective rates at or close to the 39.6% rate) rather than imposing penalties.

But the scheme formulated tries to get people to buy in by penalizing them to a fraction of what those insurance policies would otherwise cost them if they joined (at full implementation depending on the person's income, but low income earners would be subsidized into coverage).

186 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:10:32am

re: #181 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

So you support strip searches for everyone coming into jail?

No. I leave that up to the particular PD. But if they do perform strip searches it should be allowed.

Image: Prison_crowded.jpg

187 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:11:11am

re: #178 Gus

I don't think it's the same thing. Different environments. Different reasoning. Strip searches by the TSA would be done on a case by case basis. However, since I don't believe in profiling. I think everyone should be subjected to about the same scrutiny. But that's for ordinary people that won't be holed up behind steel bars in a jail cell with one toilet mixed in with minor offenders and many times violent criminals.

Prior to this case, strip searches in jail were done on a case by case basis.

188 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:11:28am

re: #181 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

So you support strip searches for everyone coming into jail?

At my county jail they have an type of Xray machine that can tell if you have illegal stuff, um, inserted. You just stand on it.

189 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:11:38am

re: #186 Gus

No. I leave that up to the particular PD. But if they do perform strip searches it should be allowed.

Image: Prison_crowded.jpg

It should not have been allowed in this guy's case. Ergo, it should not be allowed unconditionally.

190 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:11:54am

re: #187 kirkspencer

Prior to this case, strip searches in jail were done on a case by case basis.

Right. And it will continue to be that way. This ruling doesn't force PD's to perform strip searches.

191 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:12:01am

re: #188 Cannadian Club Akbar

At my county jail they have an type of Xray machine that can tell if you have illegal stuff, um, inserted. You just stand on it.

Exactly, like in an airport. These machines and patdowns.

192 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:13:44am

re: #191 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Exactly, like in an airport. These machines and patdowns.

If I do get strip searched is it wrong to ask them to use an extra finger. Wait. What?
///10

193 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:13:49am

re: #188 Cannadian Club Akbar

At my county jail they have an type of Xray machine that can tell if you have illegal stuff, um, inserted. You just stand on it.

You seem rather well versed on the process.
//

194 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:14:22am

Gotta run Honcos. Gotta visit the Oracle of Redwood City.

195 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:14:43am

re: #192 Cannadian Club Akbar

an, pimf and corrected.

196 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:14:53am

re: #190 Gus

Right. And it will continue to be that way. This ruling doesn't force PD's to perform strip searches.

You missed the catch, sorry for being cryptic.

Prior to this case, strip searches required probable cause. You see, the theory was that an arrest wasn't a conviction, and so you had a maximum of your various rights. Now, however, another right has been removed. Now you can be strip searched 'just because', in the interest of the security of the general population.

I've got a small wager that says that due to this decision at least one jail in the US will make strip searches 100% mandatory for all inprocessing and for all entry into general population.

It's not forcing them. It's allowing them.

197 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:14:58am

re: #194 Darth Vader Gargoyle

Gotta run Honcos. Gotta visit the Oracle of Redwood City.

Try not to get arrested! /

198 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:15:30am

re: #189 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

It should not have been allowed in this guys case. Ergo, it should not be allowed unconditionally.

I can't make that decision for the particular PD sitting in the comfort of my home.

Image: greenhouse_prison-blog427.jpg

You can't just toss people into a prison environment without a thorough search. If you're talking about LA County. Orange County, NYC, etc. They all get tossed into the same jail environment.

Now. There are other cases of prison reform that should be addressed. Which has or had nothing to do with this case.

Image: PRISON-1-articleLarge.jpg

They will throw you in with these guys even for minor offenses.

199 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:17:35am

re: #198 Gus

I can't make that decision for the particular PD sitting in the comfort of my home.

Image: greenhouse_prison-blog427.jpg

You can't just toss people into a prison environment without a thorough search. If you're talking about LA County. Orange County, NYC, etc. They all get tossed into the same jail environment.

Now. There are other cases of prison reform that should be addressed. Which has or had nothing to do with this case.

Image: PRISON-1-articleLarge.jpg

They will throw you in with these guys even for minor offenses.

No, no, no. Prison is not jail.

200 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:19:38am

re: #187 kirkspencer

And the case that allowed unfettered strip searches came from a specific instance where someone was arrested but shouldn't have been.

Bad case. Even worse outcome from the Court.

201 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:19:41am

re: #198 Gus

You can't just toss people into a prison environment without a thorough search.

No, only if you have a probable cause to believe that somebody may have something that won't be discovered by a thorough patdown. Which there was none in this case, since this guy was obviously a respectable businessman who was mighty unlikely to have anything in his ass or under his balls. Also, if the sentence above is true, then yes, it implies strip-searches for everyone.

202 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:19:45am

re: #198 Gus

Our jail has different blocks, depending on the severity of the crime. Idiot people get the non violent block, the harder core people get ones more prone to violence and murderers and child molesters have their own cell. And the people already sentenced to long prison terms have another while waiting to be shipped out.

203 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:19:46am

re: #199 kirkspencer

No, no, no. Prison is not jail.

I'm not going to quibble about image captions. Here. Look at this one:

Image: 0.jpg

204 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:20:18am

The ruling stands and there's nothing you can do about it.

205 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:21:10am

re: #204 Gus

The ruling stands and there's nothing you can do about it.

Yes, there is. Elect sane politicians who will appoint sane judges.

206 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:21:42am

re: #205 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Yes, there is. Elect sane politicians who will appoint sane judges.

It was a good decision.

207 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:22:50am

A guy I work with was thrown in jail because he is on parole. Some guy came into his house and put a gun to his head and the guy I work with beat the dog shit out of him. He was released when the facts came out. I'm glad he's on my side, if needed. Bad dude.

208 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:23:08am

re: #206 Gus

It was a good decision.

OK, if you agree with Thomas and Scalia, who am I to judge ;)

209 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:24:47am

re: #208 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

OK, if you agree with Thomas and Scalia, who am I to judge ;)

Yes. Thomas and Scalia also drink water.

210 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:28:19am

Good morning lizards!

211 kirkspencer  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:28:51am

re: #206 Gus

It was a good decision.

Having worked in prisons, I know there are many who would agree with you. Having worked in prisons, I know there are many who would disagree with you.

When you the correctional officer are outnumbered several to one, weapons are not as important as a cooperative population. Little things matter. Little things that build rage and tension reduce cooperation. Humiliation - and having both given and received them I will tell you strip searches are humiliating - is a little thing.

It was a bad decision. It will lead to wide-scale use, which in turn will increase unrest in prison and jail. It will also lead to even greater distrust of police OUTSIDE the jail. This person, and every future person brought in by mistake or released without charges, will feel even more resentful and mistrustful of the organization that is charged with protecting and defending them. More and more case in the grey areas will be judged against the police - not in court, but on the street.

It was a bad decision. It gives short-term and frankly insignificant gain at a severe long-term cost.

I will be asking legislators to get it changed. I'll talk to police officials I know, and to AFSCME reps and other influential individuals in the system asking them to resist taking advantage of this. It is not writ in stone, it is not permanent. I will try to get it changed.

But till it does, we - ALL of us - will pay the costs.

212 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:31:48am

I don't intend to argue this further, I will simply refer to the dissent of the sane part of the SCOTUS. I believe it argues the case convincingly. This was an atrociously bad decision.

213 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:37:58am

Pasco County deputies search for escaped monkey
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]
Heh.

214 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:40:22am

re: #213 Cannadian Club Akbar

So the monkey ran away from him? It's because he spanked it.

//I'm bad. Too obvious.

215 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:42:10am

Drug sting leads to discovery of tax fraud, Tampa police say
TAMPA — What began as a drug sting last week revealed another crime, police say: tax fraud.

In yet another indicator of the pervasiveness of fraudulent federal tax returns in Tampa, police said three men arrested Friday night during a set-up drug buy not only were found with $15,000 in cash, but more than $630,000 in fake tax return checks and Turbo Tax debit cards
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

216 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:43:45am

re: #209 Gus

BTW, I shouldn't have said that. Cases should indeed be judged on their merits. Sorry for that.

217 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:45:17am

re: #216 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

BTW, I shouldn't have said that. Cases should indeed be judged on their merits. Sorry for that.

That's cool. I made myself a sandwich. ;)

219 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:46:07am

This means #WAR

//

220 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:47:37am

Uh oh! Cute alert.

[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

221 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:49:49am

re: #220 Gus

Busch Gardens rules. It was better when they had a brewery and gave tours. I think you can also still get 2 free beers when you visit. (brewed in St. Louis, iirc)

222 jaunte  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:49:59am

File under "Absurd lies that Congressmen tell their constituents":

Steve King Brags Of Forcing ‘Anti-Meat Crowd’ To ‘Confess’ Their ‘Agenda’ Under Oath

223 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:50:57am
224 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:51:57am

re: #215 Cannadian Club Akbar

Drug sting leads to discovery of tax fraud, Tampa police say
TAMPA — What began as a drug sting last week revealed another crime, police say: tax fraud.

In yet another indicator of the pervasiveness of fraudulent federal tax returns in Tampa, police said three men arrested Friday night during a set-up drug buy not only were found with $15,000 in cash, but more than $630,000 in fake tax return checks and Turbo Tax debit cards
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

They should set up roadblocks in high white-collar crime areas and profile people driving BMW's and Esplanades.

"Just a routine check. Can we see your W-2 forms and your tax returns for the past five years, please?"

225 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:52:37am

Speaking of vegetarians, I think it is hot dog time. With fresh jalapeno relish. BBL.

226 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:52:46am

Keith needed 'Diva' limos e-mails reveal

Liberal bloviator Keith Olbermann spent his last days at Current TV driving colleagues nuts with rants about “smelly’’ drivers who had the audacity to talk to him, according to startling e-mails obtained by The Post.

“The problem is with him . . . the man who professes to be for the 99% doesn’t want any of the 99% talking to him or being near him,” an accounting executive complained in one of the missives.

An assistant, who had just about maxed out her corporate card in a desperate attempt to find a car service whose drivers would meet Olbermann’s exacting standards, e-mailed Accounting:

“I bet you wish I was joking about this . . . but we have yet another car service we need to open an account with.

“Any chance we can get this ASAP? I keep putting the charges on my corporate card and I’m afraid it will go over the limit soon!”

But then she had an inspiration — why not try an LA company called, appropriately, “Diva.’’

“I am hoping this is the last one!!” the exasperated staffer said.

It worked, but it didn’t last long, because Olbermann was fired about a month later.

He did, however, leave the studio for the last time in a Diva limo, sent by the firm’s New York operation.

Heh. What a moron.

227 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:53:55am

re: #224 Expand Your Ground

They should set up roadblocks in high white-collar crime areas and profile people driving BMW's and Esplanades.

"Just a routine check. Can we see your W-2 forms and your tax returns for the past five years, please?"

"Your papers, please."

228 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 7:59:01am

re: #225 Cannadian Club Akbar

Speaking of vegetarians, I think it is hot dog time. With fresh jalapeno relish. BBL.

229 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:01:05am

re: #228 Gus

It's so weird. I'm not a vegetarian; I don't feel the need to be dick to vegetarians. Except those who claim that by eating a vegetarian diet, no animals die in the making of their food, which is utter crap. Fewer, sure, by a large measure, but not none.

Anyway, I don't get the point of getting mad at other people for dietary choices.

230 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:01:44am

re: #228 Gus

King offered his own “confession” at the end of the hearing. “I too am a vegetarian,” said the Iowa Republican. “I eat concentrated, recycled, enhanced vegetables in the form of meat.”

Ha ha. I am on the same diet.

231 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:04:48am

re: #229 Obdicut

It's so weird. I'm not a vegetarian; I don't feel the need to be dick to vegetarians. Except those who claim that by eating a vegetarian diet, no animals die in the making of their food, which is utter crap. Fewer, sure, by a large measure, but not none.

Anyway, I don't get the point of getting mad at other people for dietary choices.

People can be obnoxious on either end of the spectrum. King of course is generally obnoxious on, well, just about everything. But I've known people who can be a pain in the rear end about "what they eat" and turn it into some kind of in your face religion whether they be devout vegetarians or devout meat eaters. Generally speaking, people should eat what they want to eat and just "shut up and eat."

232 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:06:35am

re: #230 NJDhockeyfan

Ha ha. I am on the same diet.

I just had two slices of turkey cold cuts on half a bagel with mayo. Not sure if it was turkey product. I don't read labels. Tasted good.

233 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:07:50am

re: #231 Gus

I think it's perfectly fair to point out that producing meat costs a lot more in terms of resources than vegetarian stuff does. But some vegetarian stuff also costs a lot more in resources than other vegetarian stuff, so if that's the calculus, it's not just an easy meat/vegetables division. In addition, the way stuff is raised, how far it's had to transport to get to you, all of these are also costs that would have to be figured in.

I think people should eat less processed food, because it's better on every level, from the environmental to the economic to the health-wise, but aside from advocating it to people I know and like I'm not going to do much about it.

234 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:08:57am

re: #224 Expand Your Ground

They should set up roadblocks in high white-collar crime areas and profile people driving BMW's and Esplanades.

"Just a routine check. Can we see your W-2 forms and your tax returns for the past five years, please?"

A man with a briefcase can steal more money
than any man with a gun
- Don Henley

235 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:09:44am

re: #232 Gus

I just had two slices of turkey cold cuts on half a bagel with mayo. Not sure if it was turkey product. I don't read labels. Tasted good.

Concentrated, recycled, enhanced grains in the form of meat!

236 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:11:34am

re: #233 Obdicut

I think it's perfectly fair to point out that producing meat costs a lot more in terms of resources than vegetarian stuff does. But some vegetarian stuff also costs a lot more in resources than other vegetarian stuff, so if that's the calculus, it's not just an easy meat/vegetables division. In addition, the way stuff is raised, how far it's had to transport to get to you, all of these are also costs that would have to be figured in.

I think people should eat less processed food, because it's better on every level, from the environmental to the economic to the health-wise, but aside from advocating it to people I know and like I'm not going to do much about it.

Open discussion about those things on a health or medical reasoning is fine. As opposed to one on one human interactions. Now. If we start reasoning that diet impacts environment thus putting diet and food production under, well, government control? That's a slippery slope.

237 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:12:32am

re: #229 Obdicut

It's so weird. I'm not a vegetarian; I don't feel the need to be dick to vegetarians. Except those who claim that by eating a vegetarian diet, no animals die in the making of their food, which is utter crap. Fewer, sure, by a large measure, but not none.

Anyway, I don't get the point of getting mad at other people for dietary choices.

And it is not wierd that people who eat meat want to know what is going into their animal products...especially when it is pink slime.

238 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:12:47am

re: #229 Obdicut

It's so weird. I'm not a vegetarian; I don't feel the need to be dick to vegetarians. Except those who claim that by eating a vegetarian diet, no animals die in the making of their food, which is utter crap. Fewer, sure, by a large measure, but not none.

Anyway, I don't get the point of getting mad at other people for dietary choices.

Those vegetarians who cry "Meat is Murder" deserve being dickish to.

239 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:13:46am

re: #238 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Those vegetarians who cry "Meat is Murder" deserve being dickish to.

Yes, murder...tasty, tasty murder...

//

240 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:13:47am

Also, H... Nah. //

241 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:13:49am

re: #229 Obdicut

Think of all the pesticides/herbicides/and mechanical means employed to keep fields free of critters (or otherwise kill vermin/critters due to exposure to same).

Even if you're growing organically, you can still kill critters with various natural pesticides.

It's not zero, but far less than the numbers killed in production of meat and meat products.

Disclosure: Not a vegetarian, and prefer a meat/potatoes kind of diet, but the Mrs. has gotten me to be a whole lot more health conscious so I'm eating more vegetarian items, and have found a great kosher vegetarian Asian restaurant that makes mock meat meals that are quite good.

Oh, and I'm finding that I'm eating a whole lot less red meat in the process, and a whole lot more fish and chicken. But then there are the days where I crave a good hamburger or steak...

242 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:14:36am

re: #233 Obdicut

I think people should eat less processed food, because it's better on every level, from the environmental to the economic to the health-wise, but aside from advocating it to people I know and like I'm not going to do much about it.

We have a system of industrial agricultural subsidies that tweaks the market in favor of mass-produced processed foods. If we remove or reform those subsidies we can go a long way in seeing that the price of food reflects its actual costs to us all.

243 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:15:18am

re: #233 Obdicut

I think it's perfectly fair to point out that producing meat costs a lot more in terms of resources than vegetarian stuff does. But some vegetarian stuff also costs a lot more in resources than other vegetarian stuff, so if that's the calculus, it's not just an easy meat/vegetables division. In addition, the way stuff is raised, how far it's had to transport to get to you, all of these are also costs that would have to be figured in.

I think people should eat less processed food, because it's better on every level, from the environmental to the economic to the health-wise, but aside from advocating it to people I know and like I'm not going to do much about it.

I met a guy from NYC who bought a farm here in Virginia and raises cows and chickens. He said his steaks taste so much better than the ones in the grocery store. I need to get a cow.

244 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:15:25am

re: #235 NJDhockeyfan

Concentrated, recycled, enhanced grains in the form of meat!

With assorted hormones, antibiotics, and other chemicals mixed in for your body's enjoyment.

245 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:16:17am

re: #238 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Those vegetarians who cry "Meat is Murder" deserve being dickish to.

I hear my lettuce plants cry every time I whack off a leaf.

246 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:16:20am

I hear Maddow got #1 on NYT bestseller list.

247 dragonfire1981  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:16:28am

And my home state of Mississippi continues to "impress":

Atheist group faces backlash over attempt to ban prayer in schools

That's public schools they're talking about, by the way.

248 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:16:56am

re: #245 NJDhockeyfan

I hear my lettuce plants cry every time I whack off a leaf.

I always cry when I cut my onions :(

249 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:17:21am

re: #243 NJDhockeyfan

I met a guy from NYC who bought a farm here in Virginia and raises cows and chickens. He said his steaks taste so much better than the ones in the grocery store. I need to get a cow.

Better check with the co-op board.

250 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:17:45am

re: #248 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

I always cry when I cut my onions :(

Onions is murder!

//

251 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:18:11am

re: #250 Gus

Onions is murder!

//

They're so cute, and cuddly, and furry :)

252 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:18:29am

Mario Barry in the news again.

Barry Comment Critical of Asian Business Owners

While celebrating his Democratic primary victory in Ward 8 Tuesday night, D.C. Councilman Marion Barry delivered a remark apparently critical of Asian business owners.

Barry spoke of changes in the ward, saying he’s worked hard for economic development in the city’s poorest ward and will continue to do so and saying something needs to be done about Good Hope Road and Martin Luther King Avenue.

He also seemed to criticize Asian shop owners who operate many small stores in the District.

“We got to do something about these Asians coming in and opening up businesses and dirty shops,” Barry said. “They ought to go. I’m going to say that right now. But we need African-American businesspeople to be able to take their places, too.”

Neither News4 nor Barry’s staff could reach the four-time former mayor Wednesday to get clarification about the remark.

253 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:18:32am

Read an article today notes the kerfuffle of using ammonia in making pink slime, but fact is that ammonia is critical in baking and chocolate processing for reaching the appropriate ph levels and consistency. By itself it's just another chemical product, but when people start to realize how food production really occurs and what's going into the food, they are getting a glimpse into how far removed food production is from what's actually grown/raised. It might spur some people to eat local, but a sustained outcry might get companies to reduce/alter/shift chemical usage in some processes and I think that once the pink slime outcry dies down, folks will go back to their old ways and not pay attention to what they're eating (or how it's made).

254 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:18:48am

If meat is murder than this cat that's sleeping next to me is mass murderer. He can eat a small mouse within 2 minutes. Almost nightly when he's roaming the neighborhood.

255 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:19:12am

It must be the personal, internal nature of food - someting that you stuff in your mouth, somnething that reflects your tastes, your upbringing and your entire view of the world - that gets people really worked up about the topic of food.

I just try and enjoy it without overdoing it. I sometimes succeed.

I have been mostly vegetarian for the past six weeks, I am not Catholic, but I stop buying meat products during Lent, and although I am not strict or religious about it, I have been pretty-much meat-free. it is just a personal tradition.

And it means that my breakfast of ham and eggs and dinner of beef and chicken enchiladas are going to taste that much better on easter Sunday...

256 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:19:38am

re: #246 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

NBD. Santorum got #2 on his gutchies.

257 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:19:52am

re: #254 Gus

If meat is murder than this cat that's sleeping next to me is mass murderer. He can eat a small mouse within 2 minutes. Almost nightly when he's roaming the neighborhood.

Image: hitler-cat.jpg

Figures.

258 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:20:26am

re: #256 Decatur Deb

NBD. Santorum got #2 on his gutchies.

But pablum sells automatically.

259 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:20:32am

re: #243 NJDhockeyfan

I met a guy from NYC who bought a farm here in Virginia and raises cows and chickens. He said his steaks taste so much better than the ones in the grocery store. I need to get a cow.

My hamburgers taste so much better since I've started buying the beef from a small New York upstate farm. They're more beefy, less tallowy.

260 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:21:28am

re: #253 lawhawk

I think part of it is that most Americans were under the impression that their hamburger was 100% fresh ground beef. I always though so, too. It was a rude surprise to find out that our ground beef was allowed to contain up to 15% processed meat product.

261 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:22:08am

Cat quarantined for scratching owner

A Texas woman wants to change a law that forced her to quarantine her cat after she was scratched. WOAI reports.

Help! Help! Derp.

262 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:22:16am

re: #253 lawhawk

We eat some things very local. Asparagus bed--grill 8 feet, 5 minutes. Grill--porch table, 6 feet, 10 minutes. Alabama agriturismo.

263 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:22:23am

re: #254 Gus

Which, by the way, is one of the chief hypocrisies of many environmentalists: pet ownership.

264 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:22:44am

PETA scrambled about W.H. egg roll

Excited about the White House Easter Egg Roll? Here’s one way to make those eggs a little rotten: PETA members will distribute leaflets to kids and parents attending the White House Easter Egg Roll on April 9 that caution them about the poor living conditions of chickens.

The leaflet from the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals is titled, “Eggs Are Better Lost Than Found” and reads, in part, “Eggs come from millions of chickens who spend their whole lives locked inside small cages in dark buildings. They never get to be out in the sunshine, walk around, or even stretch. These places are called ‘factory farms,’ and they are mean to chickens.”

The pamphlets, designed using “kid-friendly language” according to one PETA employee, and which will be given out outside the White House, also go on to explain how some male chicks are discarded alive at birth since they don’t produce eggs.

To “liven” up the effort, PETA will also send their “I Am Not A Nugget” mascot, a large, yellow baby chick.

No word on whether Secret Service is preparing for a potential White House Easter Bunny v. Baby Chick mascot wrestling match outside the northwest gate.

That's a wrestling match I would love to see.

265 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:23:12am

re: #261 Gus

Cat quarantined for scratching owner

A Texas woman wants to change a law that forced her to quarantine her cat after she was scratched. WOAI reports.

Help! Help! Derp.

The cat survived this incident.

266 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:24:49am

re: #264 NJDhockeyfan

PETA scrambled about W.H. egg roll

That's a wrestling match I would love to see.

The joke being that ever since Ronal Reagan, they have used wooden eggs

please go find a life, and then find something meaningful to protest...

267 jaunte  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:25:06am

re: #253 lawhawk

Similar to the people recently finding out that a lot of red food dye is made of cochineal: "There are crushed up bugs in my raspberry pop-tart!"

268 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:26:17am

Jim Marshall, guitar amp pioneer, has passed away.

Born in London in 1923, Marshall started out as a drummer before going into business and founding Marshall Amplification in 1962.

He began making guitar amplifiers in Britain as a cheaper alternative to U.S. imports, and soon after legendary musicians including Jimi Hendrix and Eric Clapton were using his equipment.

He is revered as one of the four forefathers of rock music equipment along with Leo Fender, Les Paul and Seth Lover.

If you're listening to rock and roll, odds are that you're listening to music conceived or recorded involving Marshall amps.

269 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:26:23am

re: #266 Expand Your Ground

The joke being thatever since Ronal Reagan, they have used wooden eggs

please go find a life, and then find something meaningful to protest...

That won't stop them. They are upset at Angry Birds. A fucking video game.

270 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:26:40am

re: #267 jaunte

Similar to the people recently finding out that a lot of red food dye is made of cochineal: "There are crushed up bugs in my raspberry pop-tart!"

Mmm. Bug juice.

271 makeitstop  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:27:16am

Guitarists around the world mourn.

Guitar amp pioneer Jim Marshall dies aged 88

I'm lucky enough to own a Marshall JMP 50 watt amp, circa 1978. Still the best amp I've ever owned.

272 makeitstop  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:27:39am

re: #268 lawhawk

Jim Marshall, guitar amp pioneer, has passed away.

If you're listening to rock and roll, odds are that you're listening to music conceived or recorded involving Marshall amps.

Beat me by three posts!

273 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:28:48am

This post by Richard Carrier on vegetarianism caused quite a splash last year.

274 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:29:01am

re: #267 jaunte

Similar to the people recently finding out that a lot of red food dye is made of cochineal: "There are crushed up bugs in my raspberry pop-tart!"

God, whatever you do, don't tell them what makes the Oreo center white.

275 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:29:10am

Rocket fired from Egypt hits Israeli city of Eilat

A Grad rocket has landed in the southern Israeli city of Eilat, but has caused no damage or injuries, Israeli security officials said.

District police chief Ron Gertner told Israeli radio the rocket had been fired from Egypt's Sinai peninsula.

He said it struck a construction site close to a residential area shortly after midnight (21:00 GMT).

The blast took place as thousands congregated in the resort town for the Jewish holiday of Passover.

Rocket attacks from Egyptian soil are uncommon. Attacks on Eilat and the nearby Jordanian town of Aqaba in 2010 killed one person and injured another four.

Of course Egypt is denying it. It's probably an old piece of Skylab.

276 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:29:10am

re: #272 makeitstop

Beat me by three posts!

Damn you!

//

277 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:30:05am

re: #273 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

This post by Richard Carrier on vegetarianism caused quite a splash last year.

Image: ride_with_hitler-295x300.jpg

278 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:30:50am

re: #275 NJDhockeyfan

Wow.

279 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:30:51am

Now you know why aliens never land.

//

280 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:31:20am

re: #273 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

This post by Richard Carrier on vegetarianism caused quite a splash last year.

I agree with a lot of that. People complaining about animals being packed together in unsanitary conditions ignore that, in the wild, many animals pack themselves together in unsanitary conditions.

Good article. I think it's slightly to blithe about conditions in a lot of places, but in terms of harm to human health contamination of greens is actually more dangerous than meats.

281 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:32:44am

re: #274 Targetpractice

God, whatever you do, don't tell them what makes the Oreo center white.

Or ask what part of a cow goes into cool whip

282 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:32:56am
283 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:33:32am

re: #280 Obdicut

There's also this fascination about "free-range farms" and stuff like that, which is mostly hype.

284 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:35:25am
285 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:35:41am

re: #283 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

There's also this fascination about "free-range farms" and stuff like that, which is mostly hype.

Gluten free range chickens?

286 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:36:15am

re: #282 Gus

Ah, Venezuela lover. That's typical for him/her.

287 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:36:15am

re: #284 Targetpractice

Derp!

DERP100

288 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:37:02am

re: #286 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Ah, Venezuela lover. That's typical for him/her.

Probably a Pinochet fan.

//

289 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:37:14am

re: #281 Expand Your Ground

Whipped cream isn't whipped cream unless it's been whipped with whips. (see 1:00+):

290 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:38:10am

re: #288 Gus

Probably a Pinochet fan.

//

I'm pretty sure he defended him.

291 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:39:49am

re: #285 Gus

Gluten free range chickens?

boneless chicken ranch

292 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:41:19am

re: #291 Expand Your Ground

boneless chicken ranch

I figure that some day we'll be able to "grow" meat in some kind of conscious-less free form. I'm sure the Japanese will be the first. They're already doing this but I don't feel like searching for it right now.

293 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:41:52am

re: #291 Expand Your Ground

boneless chicken ranch

What's the point of a boneless chicken ranch?

294 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:43:10am

re: #292 Gus

I figure that some day we'll be able to "grow" meat in some kind of conscious-less free form. I'm sure the Japanese will be the first. They're already doing this but I don't feel like searching for it right now.

Which should make it interesting to see whether grown meat will hold to the scifi prediction, namely that it is nowhere near as appetizing as the real thing because of something unique to raising live animals.

295 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:43:49am

re: #292 Gus

I figure that some day we'll be able to "grow" meat in some kind of conscious-less free form. I'm sure the Japanese will be the first. They're already doing this but I don't feel like searching for it right now.

IIRC they're making it from shit.

296 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:43:51am

re: #292 Gus

I figure that some day we'll be able to "grow" meat in some kind of conscious-less free form. I'm sure the Japanese will be the first. They're already doing this but I don't feel like searching for it right now.

Test tube burgers!

297 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:44:40am

re: #294 Targetpractice

Which should make it interesting to see whether grown meat will hold to the scifi prediction, namely that it is nowhere near as appetizing as the real thing because of something unique to raising live animals.

It wouldn't taste the same I'm sure. As long as it tastes good would count and as form of concentrated protein with reduced environmental impact and efficiency of production.

298 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:46:21am

re: #297 Gus

Can't be too picky in a world with 20 billion people. Unless soylent green is an appealing perspective.

299 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:46:23am

re: #294 Targetpractice

Which should make it interesting to see whether grown meat will hold to the scifi prediction, namely that it is nowhere near as appetizing as the real thing because of something unique to raising live animals.

Robbie would beg to differ.

Image: robbie.jpg

300 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:47:01am

re: #294 Targetpractice

Which should make it interesting to see whether grown meat will hold to the scifi prediction, namely that it is nowhere near as appetizing as the real thing because of something unique to raising live animals.

Who would be able to tell the difference if it were used for Jack-in the-Box taco filling?

301 allegro  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:47:10am

re: #263 Obdicut

Which, by the way, is one of the chief hypocrisies of many environmentalists: pet ownership.

How is it hypocritical?

302 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:47:22am

As long as the lab meat is grown with actual muscle cells from the animal it's meant to replicate, I don't see how it's possible to be any more gross than current processed meat industry practices. And just think of the advertising jingle possibilities:

Lab-grown meat,
High-tech treat,
Test tube products you can eat!

:)

303 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:48:11am

re: #293 Decatur Deb

What's the point of a boneless chicken ranch?

That's where Chicken McNuggets come from.

304 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:48:25am

re: #298 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Can't be too picky in a world with 20 billion people. Unless soylent green is an appealing perspective.

That's just it. Right now it's at 7 billion.

305 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:49:09am

re: #303 NJDhockeyfan

That's where Chicken McNuggets come from.

Nope, that would be this:

306 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:49:19am

re: #296 NJDhockeyfan

Test tube burgers!

Mmmm, bacon.

307 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:49:34am

re: #302 Interesting Times

As long as the lab meat is grown with actual muscle cells from the animal it's meant to replicate, I don't see how it's possible to be any more gross than current processed meat industry practices. And just think of the advertising jingle possibilities:

Lab-grown meat,
High-tech treat,
Test tube products you can eat!

:)

I suppose we should ask the Catholic Church for their opinion on this first.

//

308 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:49:36am

re: #253 lawhawk

Read an article today notes the kerfuffle of using ammonia in making pink slime, but fact is that ammonia is critical in baking and chocolate processing for reaching the appropriate ph levels and consistency. By itself it's just another chemical product, but when people start to realize how food production really occurs and what's going into the food, they are getting a glimpse into how far removed food production is from what's actually grown/raised. It might spur some people to eat local, but a sustained outcry might get companies to reduce/alter/shift chemical usage in some processes and I think that once the pink slime outcry dies down, folks will go back to their old ways and not pay attention to what they're eating (or how it's made).

It's really what the Food Network should be doing instead of shows about cakes. I started watching cooking shows from the UK years ago and they do a great job of raising awareness on food issues in an entertaining and informative way. The Brits have been talking about "pink slime" for years although they called it "reclaimed meat".
In case anyone's looking for a good cooking show from the UK The F Word (Gordon Ramsay) is available on Hulu. It's a few years old but it's a really good series.

309 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:50:11am

re: #303 NJDhockeyfan

That's where Chicken McNuggets come from.

Different Chicken Ranch:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

310 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:52:21am

Who are we to laugh at the chicken? After all they've done for us.

//

311 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:52:42am

If I could vote, I would vote for the skinny guy!

[Link: www.timesunion.com...]

312 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:52:45am

re: #308 Killgore Trout

It's really what the Food Network should be doing instead of shows about cakes. I started watching cooking shows from the UK years ago and they do a great job of raising awareness on food issues in an entertaining and informative way. The Brits have been talking about "pink slime" for years although they called it "reclaimed meat".
In case anyone's looking for a good cooking show from the UK The F Word (Gordon Ramsay) is available on Hulu. It's a few years old but it's a really good series.

Since there's a lot of profanity it does require registration to watch. Check Bugmenot - dot - com for a free password.

313 wrenchwench  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:52:45am

Somebody make a Page, I gotta fix a bike:

Gingrich group files for bankruptcy

In another black eye for Newt Gingrich, the flagship of what's known in Washington as "Newt, Inc.," has filed for bankruptcy.

In a Chapter 7 filing in the U.S. Bankruptcy Court, Northern District of Georgia, The Gingrich Group LLC, doing business as the Center for Health Transformation, filed for bankruptcy Wednesday.

The vast majority of Gingrich's net worth is tied up in the Gingrich Group. Gingrich is worth overall between $7.1 million and $31 million, according to his financial disclosure. He lists a promissory note from Gingrich Group as being worth between $5 million and $25 million. Gingrich was chairman of the group until May of last year, when he announced he was running for president.

[...]

314 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:55:08am

re: #300 Expand Your Ground

If you're getting your food from a caulk gun contraption, there's probably something wrong (see Taco Bell, et. seq.)

315 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:55:16am

re: #301 allegro

How is it hypocritical?

Pets consume a lot of resources. A dog consumes as much in resources per year as a car.

316 Interesting Times  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:55:50am
317 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:56:30am

re: #315 Obdicut

But my car doesn't leave turds around the house.

318 tomg51spence  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:56:33am

Yes, I'm late and slow...


Thanks for ocean the video link, Charles. Love it!

319 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:56:49am

re: #316 Interesting Times

Women, caterpillars. Whatever.

//

320 allegro  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 8:59:24am

re: #315 Obdicut

Pets consume a lot of resources. A dog consumes as much in resources per year as a car.

I would need citations for that but even if true, how is it hypocritical? All living creatures require resources. It's how those resources are managed that are concerns among environmentalists. Unless there is some other underlying premise in your argument with regards to what species have more rights or not to utilizing resources, I'm not seeing an argument supporting hypocrisy.

321 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:00:09am

PETA objects to glue traps for rat

Douglas County Attorney Don Kleine is accustomed to people making the argument that the death penalty is cruel and unusual.
Just not in this form.

After a World-Herald article detailed courthouse workers' use of glue traps to try to ensnare a rat that had taken up residence in prosecutors' offices, PETA sent Kleine an email Tuesday in protest.

It reads a bit like a defense attorney's brief against capital punishment.

"Glue traps are extremely cruel," wrote Kristin Simon of the Cruelty Investigations Department of the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

Kleine — who until this week hadn't seen a rat in his more than 30 years in the Douglas County Courthouse — referred the case to building officials, who say they will take PETA's advice under consideration for the next rat they spot.

The PETA email is the latest development in the rat tale — a tale that has had more plot twists than the movie "Ratatouille."

Prosecutors working Sunday spotted the rat ducking into Deputy County Attorney Jim Masteller's office. After one prosecutor entered with a bat drawn, the rat hid. Prosecutors closed Masteller's door and went back to work.

Masteller arrived Monday to find his office in a bit of disarray. Blinds were broken, a file was nibbled, a cough drop was chewed, and rat droppings dotted two corners.

Courthouse workers laid the glue traps, putting candy bar pieces in the middle.

The rat didn't take long to take the bait. Shortly after the office emptied at 5 p.m. Monday, a prosecutor saw the rat tiptoe toward the bait.

The prosecutor raced down a hallway and jumped on the front desk. She told two other prosecutors about the rat sighting. Trailing behind them, she hopped in an office chair and rolled toward Masteller's office with her feet up, just in case the rat was wandering the hallways.

By the time prosecutor Jeff Lux arrived, the rat was caught on the glue trap. Lux asked his colleagues if he should finish it off. They protested.

The prosecutors closed Masteller's door. They called building commission staff, who called in the building's cleaners. Cleaners disposed of the rat and may have inadvertently thrown away a bag that contained property from a murder case.

Some prosecutors noted that at least the rat had a last meal.

PETA was not amused.

LOL!

322 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:00:16am

re: #319 Gus

Women, caterpillars. Whatever.

//

What a fucking idiot.

Republicans are such crybabies for complaining that people are actually calling them out on their heinous anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority positions.

If you're going to vote bigot, at least grow a fucking pair and own up to it.

323 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:02:28am

re: #322 iossarian

What a fucking idiot.

Republicans are such crybabies for complaining that people are actually calling them out on their heinous anti-women, anti-gay, anti-minority positions.

If you're going to vote bigot, at least grow a fucking pair and own up to it.

Little known fact. If you devowel the name Reince Priebus you get RNC PR BS.

//

324 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:03:19am

re: #315 Obdicut

Pets consume a lot of resources. A dog consumes as much in resources per year as a car.

Are you referring to this data?
[Link: abcnews.go.com...]

325 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:04:01am

Say what?

Surgery bans elderly patient over her carbon footprint

Avril Mulcahy, 83, was told to address the “green travelling issues” over her journeys from her home in Westcliff-on-Sea, Essex, to the West Road Surgery. The surgery wrote to Mrs Mulcahy, telling her to register with a new GP within 28 days.

The letter said: “Our greatest concern is for your health and convenience but also taking into consideration green travelling issues. Re: Carbon footprints and winter weather conditions, we feel it would be advisable for patients to register at surgeries nearer to where they live.

"We would be very grateful if you could make the necessary arrangements to re-register at another practice.”

Mrs Mulcahy, a grandmother, believes the decision was made because she complained about a doctor.

“When I read through the letter, I found it absolutely ridiculous they were saying the reason was to decrease their carbon footprint,” she said. “I have been a patient at the practice for 30 years now, and there has never been any problem.

326 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:05:37am

re: #325 NJDhockeyfan

Say what?

Surgery bans elderly patient over her carbon footprint

I'd wait for Snopes to look into that.

327 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:08:21am

re: #201 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

No, only if you have a probable cause to believe that somebody may have something that won't be discovered by a thorough patdown. Which there was none in this case, since this guy was obviously a respectable businessman who was mighty unlikely to have anything in his ass or under his balls. Also, if the sentence above is true, then yes, it implies strip-searches for everyone.

Daughter 1 teaches rapists, murderers, and gang-bangers in a 'youth' jail. The whole argument is kind of silly since the inmates all are changed out completely into orange jumpsuits, after sitting a day in observation cells in underwear-only as an anti-suicide measure.

Put me down as pro-stripsearch--it's the least of the indignities on the menu.

328 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:08:34am

re: #326 Gus

I'd wait for Snopes to look into that.

Her picture is here. She looks like my grandma.

329 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:10:11am

re: #328 NJDhockeyfan

Her picture is here. She looks like my grandma.

Probably some weird squabble they're having from what I read in another site. Squabble or more like a fight of sorts. So the doctor's office came up with some weird lame ass excuse.

330 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:10:19am

re: #328 NJDhockeyfan

Her picture is here. She looks like my grandma.

ENVIROMENTALIST BABY-FISTER LEFTIES KILL GRANDMA

The only solution is to burn as much coal as possible, until the Earth is hotter than Venus.

331 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:10:55am

re: #329 Gus

Probably some weird squabble they're having from what I read in another site. Squabble or more like a fight of sorts. So the doctor's office came up with some weird lame ass excuse.

Or possibly it's a form letter that the NHS uses when advising people to switch to surgeries nearer their homes?

332 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:11:26am

re: #330 iossarian

ENVIROMENTALIST BABY-FISTER LEFTIES KILL GRANDMA

The only solution is to burn as much coal as possible, until the Earth is hotter than Venus.

Yes, that is exactly what she wants. Brilliant! She's faking an illness!

333 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:12:01am

re: #317 Tommy's cone of shame

I'll just say I will certainly pay no attention whatsoever to the idea that pet ownership is antithetical or hypocritical for a environmentalist. I think it's motivated by a desire by extreme environmental advocates to guilt trip punish us into reducing our footprint. Some advocates just lose all sight of reality to make a point.

334 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:12:26am

re: #320 allegro

I would need citations for that

Common sense should be a good citation. Dogs, while varying in size, are high-metabilism predators that need meat products.

but even if true, how is it hypocritical?

Because pet ownership is something you can choose not to do so as to consume resources, and it's purely for the pleasure of the person owning the pet-- with rare exceptions for working dogs, which aren't really pets.

All living creatures require resources.

True, but, so what?

It's how those resources are managed that are concerns among environmentalists.

I know. And I'm making the point that using up a lot of resources so people can feel nice about owning a pet and get the happiness and petting and love that comes from a pet, should be a concern to enviromentalists. It's a lot of resources being used for what's basically a morale boost.

Unless there is some other underlying premise in your argument with regards to what species have more rights or not to utilizing resources, I'm not seeing an argument supporting hypocrisy.

I'm not making any sort of argument about species having more or less rights though, at all.

336 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:12:59am

re: #331 iossarian

Or possibly it's a form letter that the NHS uses when advising people to switch to surgeries nearer their homes?

Wouldn't make sense because she's a mile away. They have a "copy" of the letter there which look "unique." Yes, it's the Daily Mail! ;)

337 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:13:07am

re: #332 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, that is exactly what she wants. Brilliant! She's faking an illness!

Sigh. I was referring to the Telegraph/Mail/Right-wing's unerring ability to take any story that has a vague connection to greenhouse gas emissions and turn it into "WHY BURNING LESS COAL MEANS YOUR GRANDMA WILL DIE".

338 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:13:33am

re: #332 NJDhockeyfan

Yes, that is exactly what she wants. Brilliant! She's faking an illness!

She didn't. But if you're not saying you posted this in order to show that environmentalism has gone wild, that's cool! ;)

339 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:13:35am

re: #331 iossarian

Or possibly it's a form letter that the NHS uses when advising people to switch to surgeries nearer their homes?

A form letter that says this?:

Re carbon footprints and winter weather conditions, we feel it would be advisable for patients to register at surgeries nearer to where they live.

We would be very grateful if you could make the necessary arrangements to re-register at another practice.

340 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:14:13am

re: #339 NJDhockeyfan

A form letter that says this?:

With signatures from 5 doctors? Something's weird here.

341 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:14:22am

re: #333 Daniel Ballard

I'm not an extremist environmentalist, though.

It's simply true that pets consume resources. It's also true that pets don't 'do' anything except make our lives happier.

Am I suggesting we all go euthanize our pets tomorrow? Obviously not. But it's a good thing to consider, when decided to buy an extra dog or an extra cat, that you're going to be devoted resources to that pet for a long time.

That's all. It's not some crazy wild-ass environmental position. Just one about thinking of the consequences of your actions.

343 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:17:00am
344 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:17:06am

re: #335 Killgore Trout

THE MOST PROFITABLE PLANTS IN YOUR VEGETABLE GARDEN

Excellent list, bookmarked. I'm trying to balance value return with taste, but my wife is constantly telling me I have no idea of what things cost in the supermarket.

345 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:17:09am

re: #341 Obdicut

Well you certainly have a far more reasonable proposition than those scientists who titled their work "Time To Eat The Dog". Every creature consumes resources. If we did not have dogs and cats they would exist in the wild anyway.

Once we make an honest effort to reduce and recycle, we are past these claims of hypocrisy.

346 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:18:12am

re: #338 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

She didn't. But if you're not saying you posted this in order to show that environmentalism has gone wild, that's cool! ;)

No, I posted it because it's a stupid fucking decision. She lives a mile away?

347 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:18:31am

re: #339 NJDhockeyfan

A form letter that says this?:

An old lady has been asked by her local surgery to look for a different one. She says this is because she made a complaint about a doctor.

Westcliff-on-Sea is essentially part of Southend-on-Sea. There are probably a dozen surgeries in town at least. The letter looks like it's a cooked-up excuse, sure.

Now tell me this: why is this national news?

My hypothesis: because it allows the Telegraph to trumpet LIMITING CARBON EMISSIONS WILL KILL GRANNY. Do you have a different one?

349 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:19:26am

re: #342 Gus

[Link: en.rian.ru...]

350 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:19:32am

re: #346 NJDhockeyfan

No, I posted it because it's a stupid fucking decision. She lives a mile away?

I'm sure that the decision was reversed from higher up the NHS food chain. They'd have to since it sounds like that office fabricated an excuse to dump her for complaining.

351 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:20:01am

re: #342 Gus

Mind-bending ‘psychotronic’ guns that can effectively turn people into zombies have been given the go-ahead by Russian president Vladimir Putin!!!

I knew they would get around to that some day. I like the word 'psychotronic', might suggest it as a band name. "Psychotronic Zombies and the Brainzz", has a nice ring to it.

352 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:20:28am

re: #347 iossarian

An old lady has been asked by her local surgery to look for a different one. She says this is because she made a complaint about a doctor.

Westcliff-on-Sea is essentially part of Southend-on-Sea. There are probably a dozen surgeries in town at least. The letter looks like it's a cooked-up excuse, sure.

Now tell me this: why is this national news?

My hypothesis: because it allows the Telegraph to trumpet LIMITING CARBON EMISSIONS WILL KILL GRANNY. Do you have a different one?

Well of course that's why. I mean, it's the Torygraph and I'd expect nothing less from them.

353 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:20:44am

re: #350 Gus

I'm sure that the decision was reversed from higher up the NHS food chain. They'd have to since it sounds like that office fabricated an excuse to dump her for complaining.

I hope so. At least now that the story is in the UK press they would certainly have to change their minds.

354 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:20:57am

re: #345 Daniel Ballard

Well you certainly have a far more reasonable proposition than those scientists who titled their work "Time To Eat The Dog". Every creature consumes resources. If we did not have dogs and cats they would exist in the wild anyway.

Exisiting in the wild, in a stable ecosystem, is entirely different than existing inside our unsustainable system, though.

Once we make an honest effort to reduce and recycle, we are past these claims of hypocrisy.

I don't agree. I also don't think hypocrisy is some ultimate evil the way a lot of others seem to, though. Most people are hypocritical in a lot of ways. The best thing to do is to recognize it and think about it and see if there's a way clear to improving the situation, not revolutionary change overnight.

355 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:21:27am

re: #352 Simply Sarah

Well of course that's why. I mean, it's the Torygraph and I'd expect nothing less from them.

It's in a bunch of UK papers.

356 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:21:30am

re: #341 Obdicut

I'm not an extremist environmentalist, though.

It's simply true that pets consume resources. It's also true that pets don't 'do' anything except make our lives happier.

Am I suggesting we all go euthanize our pets tomorrow? Obviously not. But it's a good thing to consider, when decided to buy an extra dog or an extra cat, that you're going to be devoted resources to that pet for a long time.

That's all. It's not some crazy wild-ass environmental position. Just one about thinking of the consequences of your actions.

My dog does several things--he's Chief of Security, allowing me to keep my guns unloaded, and go about without a CCW. He also manages the wildlife that would otherwise eat my garden.

357 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:22:25am

I thought that all UK papers are like tabloids? The British invented the genre. So it's kind of difficult to take seriously at times and easy to ignore.

358 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:22:28am

re: #353 NJDhockeyfan

I hope so. At least now that the story is in the UK press they would certainly have to change their minds.

I look forward to the Telegraph championing every single UK pensioner who gets pushed out of their NHS surgery for some reason, regardless of whether their ousting letter mentions greenhouse gas emissions.

They may have to print a special supplement!

359 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:22:36am

re: #344 Decatur Deb

Excellent list, bookmarked. I'm trying to balance value return with taste, but my wife is constantly telling me I have no idea of what things cost in the supermarket.

It's not surprising to see herbs near the top of the list. Grocery store prices are insane. My situation is a bit different because I grow a lot of stuff you just can't buy in the grocery store. You just can't put a price on a fresh organic Grey Shallot. I've never even seen Salsify in a grocery store.

360 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:22:52am

re: #354 Obdicut

Exisiting in the wild, in a stable ecosystem, is entirely different than existing inside our unsustainable system, though.

I don't agree. I also don't think hypocrisy is some ultimate evil the way a lot of others seem to, though. Most people are hypocritical in a lot of ways. The best thing to do is to recognize it and think about it and see if there's a way clear to improving the situation, not revolutionary change overnight.

Agreed. I'm a huge hypocrite. I openly admit it. I don't much like it. I do my best to change it and I'm better than I used to be, but, like anyone, I still have plenty of room for improvement.

361 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:23:57am

Off to the store--BBL.

362 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:24:01am

re: #355 NJDhockeyfan

It's in a bunch of UK papers.

Not ... THE DAILY MAIL???

Surely you kid.

363 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:24:08am

re: #356 Decatur Deb

Sure, you can make exceptions for 'working dogs' and even stretch it a little. But most people 'just' have pets for pleasure and companionship.

I'm not saying people are big terrible assholes for owning pets. I own two cats. I'm saying that it's something to think about and consider, and a lot of people who label themselves as environmentalists do only very cursory examinations of their actual resource usage, and pet ownership is one of the larger things that tends to get left out.

365 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:26:22am

re: #363 Obdicut

Sure, you can make exceptions for 'working dogs' and even stretch it a little. But most people 'just' have pets for pleasure and companionship.

I'm not saying people are big terrible assholes for owning pets. I own two cats. I'm saying that it's something to think about and consider, and a lot of people who label themselves as environmentalists do only very cursory examinations of their actual resource usage, and pet ownership is one of the larger things that tends to get left out.

I think a strong hypothetical would be the person that scolds people for having two cars/driving, but owns 14 dog, 8 cats, and a pair of rabbits.

366 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:27:19am

re: #364 Gus

Here's the clinic:

West Road Surgery - Information about the doctors surgery opening hours, appointments, online prescriptions, health information and much more

Call 'em and verify. ;)

Just make sure to have them reverse the charges.

367 allegro  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:28:08am

re: #360 Simply Sarah

Agreed. I'm a huge hypocrite. I openly admit it. I don't much like it. I do my best to change it and I'm better than I used to be, but, like anyone, I still have plenty of room for improvement.

I think the word "hypocrisy" is being used incorrectly, IMO. Hypocrisy is "do what I say, not what I do." One can be an environmentalist and seek to improve the sustainability of our resource management and still partake of those resources necessarily without being a hypocrite. We live in a society that gives us few choices, for example, on where and how we get our energy and how we obtain food. We can make personal choices as wisely and informatively as possible but unless we just lie down and die, we must use needed resources to survive.

368 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:28:41am

Keep in mind too that she wasn't denied "surgery" either. That's just the name of the clinic.

369 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:30:08am

re: #367 allegro

unless we just lie down and die, we must use needed resources to survive.

But this is not Obdi's point. You don't need a pet to survive.

370 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:30:41am

re: #335 Killgore Trout

THE MOST PROFITABLE PLANTS IN YOUR VEGETABLE GARDEN

Oh yeah, there's my chives, there we go. It's a real bummer from November to early March while they are dormant, and we don't have any.

I don't see Blueberries, though. You can have my blueberry bushes when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers.

371 allegro  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:30:48am

re: #369 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

But this is not Obdi's point. You don't need a pet to survive.

Really? How do you know what other people need?

372 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:31:40am

re: #368 Gus

Keep in mind too that she wasn't denied "surgery" either. That's just the name of the clinic.

UK terminology for a GP practice/office.

373 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:31:50am

re: #371 allegro

Really? How do you know what other people need?

?
Who needs a pet to survive? Not a working dog for a blind man or something like that. A pet.

374 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:31:54am

re: #367 allegro

I think the word "hypocrisy" is being used incorrectly, IMO. Hypocrisy is "do what I say, not what I do." One can be an environmentalist and seek to improve the sustainability of our resource management and still partake of those resources necessarily without being a hypocrite. We live in a society that gives us few choices, for example, on where and how we get our energy and how we obtain food. We can make personal choices as wisely and informatively as possible but unless we just lie down and die, we must use needed resources to survive.

Granted, but what Obdi is saying that when someone attacks another for spending X amount of resources on something that person enjoys, but doesn't need, then turns around and spends X amount of resources on something they enjoy but don't need, it's hypocritical.

375 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:34:36am

re: #373 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

?
How does need a pet to survive? Not a working dog for a blind man or something like that. A pet.

So we're excluding:

Seeing-eye dogs
Dogs trained for other disabilities (epilepsy, autism, etc.)
Cadaver dogs
Search and rescue dogs
Farm dogs such as shepherd dogs
K9 police dogs
Bomb sniffers

Hmmm. There's a species missing here. Where are the cats?

376 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:35:07am

re: #374 Simply Sarah

Granted, but what Obdi is saying that when someone attacks another for spending X amount of resources on something that person enjoys, but doesn't need, then turns around and spends X amount of resources on something they enjoy but don't need, it's hypocritical.

Right, and I think the non-hypocritical environmentalist stance is to try to figure out agreed limits on resource consumption, so that people can have roughly equal opportunities to enjoy the things they want to enjoy without collectively screwing up the planet for future generations.

Of course, it doesn't hurt to try to live somewhat within those limits even before an agreement is forthcoming.

377 Targetpractice  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:35:20am

re: #373 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

?
Who needs a pet to survive? Not a working dog for a blind man or something like that. A pet.

My three cats are the only thing that keep my blood pressure low enough not to go on a shooting spree.

///

378 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:35:52am

re: #375 Mostly sane, most of the time.

So we're excluding:

Seeing-eye dogs
Dogs trained for other disabilities (epilepsy, autism, etc.)
Cadaver dogs
Search and rescue dogs
Farm dogs such as shepherd dogs
K9 police dogs
Bomb sniffers

Hmmm. There's a species missing here. Where are the cats?

Well, that's just further proof that cats are evil.
/

379 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:36:35am

re: #375 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Sure. A working animal can be a friend, but obviously the argument is not about them but about pure pets.

It's ridiculous on its face to demand proof that somebody can't survive without a pet. "Really?" Hmpph.

380 allegro  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:37:17am

re: #373 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

?
How does need a pet to survive? Not a working dog for a blind man or something like that. A pet.

Yeah, a pet. My dogs get me out of bed in the morning. Without them I would have little reason or incentive to do so. My beloved Sheltie, best friend, and protector quite literally saved my life after my husband's death. He kept me alive when I didn't give a shit about living any longer and stopped me from taking steps to amend that situation.

I could go on. I am not alone. Pets add great value and health benefits for which there are hundreds of supportive studies.

381 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:38:44am

re: #380 allegro

Because you already had pets. That's not something you plan for when you buy one.

382 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:38:52am

re: #335 Killgore Trout

I grow peppers, tomatoes, cukes, and eggplant, plus herbs like thyme, cilantro, oregano, and a couple types of mint. The costs for the herbs is minimal since most will reseed or are perennials, and I figure that the costs are worth it to have tasty peppers and tomatoes even if the work/costs are higher (which they're not!). So, that list does more to verify that I'm doing the right thing by growing my own - it means I can expand things a little (if I can find sunny spots elsewhere in my garden to grow 'em).

383 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:39:29am

re: #370 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Oh yeah, there's my chives, there we go. It's a real bummer from November to early March while they are dormant, and we don't have any.

I don't see Blueberries, though. You can have my blueberry bushes when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers.

You can dig up some chives, put them in a pot and bring them inside for the winter. They do pretty well as a house plant.

384 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:41:01am

Not to belabor this but here's a normal paper covering this:

Patient’s dismay at being thrown out of GP practice

...

The West Road Surgery declined to comment.

Andrew Stride, head of governance, risk and customer services for NHS South Essex, said: “We would advise all patients who have concerns about any aspect of local NHS care to contact the Patient Advice and Liaison Service on 0800 5879159 for help and advice.

“While we are unable to comment on individual cases, we would like to assure patients there is a procedure GP practices need to follow before they can remove patients from their lists.”

385 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:41:23am

re: #380 allegro

Yeah, a pet. My dogs get me out of bed in the morning. Without them I would have little reason or incentive to do so. My beloved Sheltie, best friend, and protector quite literally saved my life after my husband's death. He kept me alive when I didn't give a shit about living any longer and stopped me from taking steps to amend that situation.

I could go on. I am not alone. Pets add great value and health benefits for which there are hundreds of supportive studies.

Sure, and there's nothing wrong with owning a pet. Again, at least my reading of Obdi's point is just that you still need to count the costs of a pet. You can't just exempt them from having an environment impact because they're alive and friendly and loving and cuddly.

386 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:41:49am

re: #380 allegro

Yeah, a pet. My dogs get me out of bed in the morning. Without them I would have little reason or incentive to do so. My beloved Sheltie, best friend, and protector quite literally saved my life after my husband's death. He kept me alive when I didn't give a shit about living any longer and stopped me from taking steps to amend that situation.

I could go on. I am not alone. Pets add great value and health benefits for which there are hundreds of supportive studies.

Absolutely. If people want pets and will do a good job taking care of them, that's great. I'm very against animal abuse and neglect. We've domesticated dogs and cats to the point that they must live in tandem with humans, so we are now responsible for them.

I think the point is that environmentalists should take them into account the way they would count, say, computers. My husband has been one with the computer world since he was a boy. When his mother would go to the fabric store, he would slip next door to the computer store, and just wander around so he could touch the computers and look at them.

Count them both.

387 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:41:51am

re: #382 lawhawk

I grow peppers, tomatoes, cukes, and eggplant, plus herbs like thyme, cilantro, oregano, and a couple types of mint. The costs for the herbs is minimal since most will reseed or are perennials, and I figure that the costs are worth it to have tasty peppers and tomatoes even if the work/costs are higher (which they're not!). So, that list does more to verify that I'm doing the right thing by growing my own - it means I can expand things a little (if I can find sunny spots elsewhere in my garden to grow 'em).

I'm really looking forward to growing reliable crops of tomatoes and peppers in my greenhouse. Here in Portland it's really tough to grow peppers because our growing season is so short. It's been two years since I've had ripe tomatoes in the garden the weather has been shit.

388 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:42:27am
389 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:43:33am

It's laughable that Santorum's calling on Gingrich to bow out of the race. Both are toast - and Santorum wont even win his home state of PA based on the latest polling data.

As I've been saying for months now, Romney will be the nominee. However, Santorum and Gingrich have exposed the ugly truths about the GOP's ongoing socon, anti-science and anti-women agenda is all the more reason to keep them both in there.

Oh, and the schadenfreude of knowing that Gingrich's health think tank has declared bankruptcy - like the ideas he (and the think tank) represents.

390 allegro  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:45:00am

re: #385 Simply Sarah

Sure, and there's nothing wrong with owning a pet. Again, at least my reading of Obdi's point is just that you still need to count the costs of a pet. You can't just exempt them from having an environment impact because they're alive and friendly and loving and cuddly.

Obdi's statement was that environmentalists who own pets are hypocrites. Period. We can move the goalposts as desired but that was the statement I was responding to.

391 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:45:51am

re: #390 allegro

Obdi's statement was that environmentalists who own pets are hypocrites. Period. We can move the goalposts as desired but that was the statement I was responding to.

Fair enough. I'm not attempting to move the goalposts, I'm just trying to state my take on it all.

392 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:46:21am
393 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:46:54am

re: #382 lawhawk

I grow peppers, tomatoes, cukes, and eggplant, plus herbs like thyme, cilantro, oregano, and a couple types of mint. The costs for the herbs is minimal since most will reseed or are perennials, and I figure that the costs are worth it to have tasty peppers and tomatoes even if the work/costs are higher (which they're not!). So, that list does more to verify that I'm doing the right thing by growing my own - it means I can expand things a little (if I can find sunny spots elsewhere in my garden to grow 'em).

We grow all the main herbs in a small spot. Just a plant or two of each. Enough to step out for a little basil or thyme or parsley or mint, or whatever is called for by dinner.

394 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:48:18am

re: #393 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

We grow all the main herbs in a small spot. Just a plant or two of each. Enough to step out for a little basil or thyme or parsley or mint, or whatever is called for by dinner.

Mint is evil. Keep mint in a container, or you will regret it.

Mint is the Borg of the herb kingdom.

395 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:48:23am

re: #388 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Give any religion an opening and theocracy is the goal

Meanwhile the Pirate Party, which is enjoying a great deal of political success in Germany (recently elected to two state legislatures) is holding a protest against the antiquated law in Germany that forbids public dancing on Good Friday.

We were performing Irish music in a bar on a Good Friday, and warned the people not to get up and dance to any of the jigs and reels we were playing. Then we played a Scottish march and told them that as far as we know, marching is allowed in Germany 365 days a year...

396 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:49:07am

re: #393 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

We grow all the main herbs in a small spot. Just a plant or two of each. Enough to step out for a little basil or thyme or parsley or mint, or whatever is called for by dinner.

So it's your Just in Thyme garden.

397 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:49:56am

re: #390 allegro

Obdi's statement was that environmentalists who own pets are hypocrites. Period. We can move the goalposts as desired but that was the statement I was responding to.

No, not period. I also said that I don't consider hypocrisy to be this giant black and white deal that some people do, where if you're a hypocrite at all you're a terrible person.

I do think that many environmentalists have a shallow and hypocritical approach to environmentalism.

And I'm not denying that pets have benefits for their owners. That's a large part of my point. They're 'for' us, and they should be included in any calculation of our resource usage, along with everything else we consume.

398 Killgore Trout  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:50:20am

All this talk of gardening reminds me I need to check the bulk bins at the grocery store. I'm going to expand my plot of borlotti beans .Beans are cheap but cooking them fresh instead of dried is really a special treat.

399 lawhawk  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:50:30am

re: #387 Killgore Trout

We had such a weird growing season last year in NYC metro. Stuff was growing until the end of October.

The USDA has issued new zone charts with added and adjusted ranges. We're now in Zone 7a. We used to be Zone 6.

400 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:50:47am

Here ya go:

Police Draw Guns On African-American Baseball Player Outside His Home

Torii Hunter, an All-Star centerfielder for Major League Baseball’s Los Angeles Angels, had an awkward run-in with local police officers outside his Newport, California home Wednesday night after his home security system malfunctioned. Twenty minutes after the alarm went off, Hunter saw police outside his house and walked outside, only to see police draw their weapons and ask him for his ID because “they didn’t believe” he lived there, Hunter tweeted...

401 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:51:44am

re: #400 Gus

Here ya go:

Police Draw Guns On African-American Baseball Player Outside His Home

Now, now. They were just Tori hunting. Nothing to see here.

402 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:52:10am

re: #397 Obdicut

No, not period. I also said that I don't consider hypocrisy to be this giant black and white deal that some people do, where if you're a hypocrite at all you're a terrible person.

I do think that many environmentalists have a shallow and hypocritical approach to environmentalism.

And I'm not denying that pets have benefits for their owners. That's a large part of my point. They're 'for' us, and they should be included in any calculation of our resource usage, along with everything else we consume.

I think just about everyone practices an unwitting, unintentional form of hypocrisy. Part of it just how we place our priorities without realizing that we've done it.

403 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:52:21am

But...

404 Kronocide  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:52:47am

re: #400 Gus

Good thing he wasn't wearing a hood.

405 iossarian  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:52:49am

re: #384 Gus

Not to belabor this but here's a normal paper covering this:

Patient’s dismay at being thrown out of GP practice

I have no problem with that article. There's no screaming headline, and the content makes it clear that she thinks the "green travelling" claim is ridiculous (which it is) but that it's a fabrication.

Now contrast that with the Telegraph treatment, which has the green issue right in the headline, essentially claiming that she was pushed out because of that, even though what she says makes it clear that it's just a made-up pretext.

So I stand by my original criticism: papers like the Telegraph and the Mail (and outlets such as Fox News here) simply distort stories to fit their "EMISSION REGULATION WILL KILL YOUR GRANDMA" hysteria, which supports the mission of their backers to eliminate any form of pollution regulation that might hurt their short-term profit margins.

406 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:52:59am

Douchebag alert...

PM slams author Grass for 'ignorant' Israel slurs

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu slammed German Nobel Prize winning author Günter Grass on Thursday, saying his "shameful" moral equivalence between Iran and Israel says more about Grass, than it does about Israel.

It is rare for Netanyahu to react to anti-Semitic and virulently anti-Israel statements made abroad, but this time he felt it necessary considering Grass' high profile and hidden Nazi past, a government official said.

"It is Iran, not Israel, that is a threat to the peace and security of the world," Netanyahu said. "It is Iran, not Israel that threatens other states with annihilation. It is Iran, not Israel that supports terror organizations that fire rockets on innocent civilians. It is Iran, not Israel that is supporting the Syrian regime's massacre of its own people. It is Iran, not Israel that stones women, hangs gays and brutally represses tens of millions of its own citizens."

407 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:53:06am

re: #401 Simply Sarah

Now, now. They were just Tori hunting. Nothing to see here.

"Be vewwy quiet. I'm wacially pwofiling!"

(copped from last Today Show)

408 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:56:15am

re: #388 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Revolution has failed.

Give it another 20-30 years, and no tourism dollars, and another one will occur.

Egypt is already in a worse position than Iran was economically in 1979. So, it will likely not take as long for dysfunction to occur.

409 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:57:36am

re: #394 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Mint is evil. Keep mint in a container, or you will regret it.

Mint is the Borg of the herb kingdom.

Yes I know, although if it is one plant in a small spot tended frequently it's not a problem.

410 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:57:55am

re: #405 iossarian

I have no problem with that article. There's no screaming headline, and the content makes it clear that she thinks the "green travelling" claim is ridiculous (which it is) but that it's a fabrication.

Now contrast that with the Telegraph treatment, which has the green issue right in the headline, essentially claiming that she was pushed out because of that, even though what she says makes it clear that it's just a made-up pretext.

So I stand by my original criticism: papers like the Telegraph and the Mail (and outlets such as Fox News here) simply distort stories to fit their "EMISSION REGULATION WILL KILL YOUR GRANDMA" hysteria, which supports the mission of their backers to eliminate any form of pollution regulation that might hurt their short-term profit margins.

Yeah. It easily becomes this "ALGORE AND GLOBAL WARMING!!!" plus "OBAMACARE WILL KEEL YOU!!!" meme.

411 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:58:18am

re: #406 NJDhockeyfan

Side note: in the article to which this article links we see this gem of historical ignorance:

Grass, who revealed in 2006 that he had been a member of the Nazi Waffen- SS, a group designed to exclusively eliminate European Jewry during WWII,

412 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 9:59:39am

Patrick Greene, Longtime Atheist Activist, Announces Conversion To Christianity

Two months after he threatened to sue a Texas county for allowing a Nativity scene on public property, longtime atheist Patrick Greene has announced that he is not only converting to Christianity, but also plans to become a pastor, the Christian Post reports.

Derp! Whatever. That's nice.

413 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:00:30am

re: #412 Gus

Patrick Greene, Longtime Atheist Activist, Announces Conversion To Christianity

Derp! Whatever. That's nice.

I suspect that was the plan all along.

414 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:00:35am

re: #396 Simply Sarah

So it's your Just in Thyme garden.

We keep it in oreganoic mint condition.

415 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:00:48am

re: #413 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

I suspect that was the plan all along.

Thought about that.

416 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:01:38am

re: #411 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

Side note: in the article to which this article links we see this gem of historical ignorance:

That was an enormous scandal when it came out. But then again, the Daily Mail made a point of recalling Pope Benedict's time as a Hitler Youth. Grass was drafted into the Waffen SS as a teenager and served at the front in a combat unit.

417 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:01:41am

re: #413 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

I suspect that was the plan all along.

But that's just my paranoid side. Maybe he really is just an ailing confused guy.

418 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:01:57am

re: #413 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

I suspect that was the plan all along.

Do you mean to cash in on this, or out of a bizarre thought that this will somehow discredit atheists and provide support for religion?

419 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:02:21am

re: #417 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

But that's just my paranoid side. Maybe he really is just an ailing confused guy.

That was my main thought. Death bed conversions and all that jazz.

420 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:02:27am

re: #416 Expand Your Ground

The point is that Waffen-SS was not "a group designed to exclusively eliminate European Jewry during WWII".

421 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:04:55am

re: #418 Obdicut

Do you mean to cash in on this, or out of a bizarre thought that this will somehow discredit atheists and provide support for religion?

Sorta, pretend that you're that super-atheist, then suddenly say you've been converted. Profit!

422 Gus  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:05:09am

Memo to all Atheists

From: Atheist Council of Spaghetti Westerns

You are allowed to convert to Christianity or any religion of your choosing if you so desire.

423 Lidane  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:06:02am

Cue the wingnut head explosions:

EA defends itself against thousands of anti-gay letters

"Every one of EA's games includes ESRB content descriptors so it's hard to believe anyone is surprised by the content. This isn't about protecting children, it's about political harassment," Jeff Brown, VP of corporate communications told us.

The letters have been directed to EA's executive team, creative heads, its board of directors and just about anyone at a high level. Many of them threaten to boycott EA's titles if the publisher refuses to remove same-sex relationship content.

The letters also infer that EA was pressured by LGBT groups to include homosexual content in its games, and that this content is somehow forced upon children, exposing them to LGBT themes. Of course, those of you reading this already know how ludicrous this is. The games are not for children, nor do they force LGBT content on a player - it's merely an option for gamers who wish to replicate their real-life sexual orientation.

Some of the letters also complain that EA is deliberately deleting posts against LGBT issues on its official forum, which is true when the comments happen to violate discussion rules on hate speech.

"EA has not been pressured by any groups to include LGBT characters in our games. However, we have met with LGBT groups and sponsored industry forums to discuss content and harassment of players in online forums. In short, we do put options for same-sex relationships in our games; we don't tolerate hate speech on our forums," Brown added.

424 Simply Sarah  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:08:25am

re: #423 Lidane

Cue the wingnut head explosions:

EA defends itself against thousands of anti-gay letters

Look, what they really should be complaining about is how godawful the shoehorned sex scenes in Bioware games are. Like, can they stop trying? Please? I'm not seeing any progress.

425 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:09:42am

re: #252 NJDhockeyfan

Mario Barry in the news again.

Barry Comment Critical of Asian Business Owners

I always recall the story a friend tells about Marion Barry. When he became mayor for whichever time it was, her grandmother called her from her nursing home and yelled down the line "DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR PEOPLE HAVE DONE?"

Thanks, Grandma. Make the voters of DC your granddaughter's responsibility.

426 AK-47%  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:10:04am

re: #420 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

The point is that Waffen-SS was not "a group designed to exclusively eliminate European Jewry during WWII".

This goes back to the time when they were resurrecting the German Army in the 50's: they decided that former regular army oficers would be allowed because they were "just good Germans following orders", but Waffen-SS officers would be excluded, because they were associated with the Einsatz-SS, who were the camp guards and executioners.

But the line between regular army, Waffen-SS and Einsatz-SS was never that clear.

427 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:10:12am

re: #421 The Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost of a Ghost

My grandfather knew a con-man-- they met in the army-- who specialized in bilking preachers of a certain type-- the revivalist, faith-healing, etc. kind. My grandfather's 'friend' said that he chose them because he viewed them as con-men of a sick type; those who believed they had the moral right to give people false hope and charge for it. And also because they had lots of money, and were paranoid and tended to fall for con-man schemes to hide their money from taxation and investigation. It used to be more of a scandal to be caught being a rich preacher.

Interesting guy. My grandfather lost touch with him after the war but saw his name in the papers once and identified him as now a Scientologist, which makes a lot of sense.

428 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:10:41am

At least one Catholic University is flouting the bishops:

Catholic university stands by drag show, despite criticism

The University of San Diego — a Catholic college — is sparking controversy after students announced they would be holding a Drag Show to celebrate equality and LGBT pride. Detractors have described the event as “perversion at its highest level” and called on the organizers to “hang themselves,” but the Catholic university is standing by the event, telling a local NBC affiliate that “it’s about equality” and they approve it.

429 Obdicut  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:11:04am

re: #424 Simply Sarah

I find it kind of fascinating in a weird way. Like puppetry.

430 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:11:59am

re: #321 NJDhockeyfan

PETA objects to glue traps for rat

LOL!

I object to glue traps for anything. Those things are inhumane as hell.

431 Lidane  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:14:15am

re: #424 Simply Sarah

Look, what they really should be complaining about is how godawful the shoehorned sex scenes in Bioware games are. Like, can they stop trying? Please? I'm not seeing any progress.

That and how the ending of Mass Effect 3 is apparently the worst thing ever. I haven't played the game, but if the outcry I've been seeing is anything to go by, the ending sucks and has a lot of folks pissed off.

LGBT romance options in a game are not a big deal. The Sims series has had same-sex options in game since the beginning. Who cares?

432 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:16:12am

re: #430 SanFranciscoZionist

I object to glue traps for anything. Those things are inhumane as hell.

I have them in my house. They aren't catching mice, just little mini grasshopper looking bugs.

433 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:17:58am

re: #357 Gus

I thought that all UK papers are like tabloids? The British invented the genre. So it's kind of difficult to take seriously at times and easy to ignore.

The Times of London resents your suggestion.

434 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:20:22am

re: #388 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

Give any religion an opening and theocracy is the goal

The Brotherhood has never made much of a secret of who they are and what they represent.

It was fashionable in the wake of Mubarak's topple to pretend that somehow they were something different now.

They ain't.

435 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:20:55am

re: #412 Gus

Patrick Greene, Longtime Atheist Activist, Announces Conversion To Christianity

Derp! Whatever. That's nice.

A little confusing report there. The text says he is converting, but the video commentary says he is not.

I know some people in GA, who are atheists and had a shed fire that burned tools and a generator (frequent power outages there in the woods). They had replacements donated by the local church, which was nice, but nobody but us atheists know they are atheists, for what that is worth.

436 Achilles Tang  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:21:46am

re: #430 SanFranciscoZionist

I object to glue traps for anything. Those things are inhumane as hell.

Yes, I used one once. Had to drown the bugger in the toilet. No more.

437 ProGunLiberal  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:25:19am

re: #434 SanFranciscoZionist

Yeah. I wonder how that will effect the younger generation at the Brotherhood though. I've heard there is a generational divide.

Egypt can kiss the tourism dollars goodbye if they want to go down this road. And since they have a dysfunctional economy otherwise, they will end up in catastrophic poverty.

And eventually, another revolution will happen. Most people tend to forget revolutions can go awry or outright fail. See the French Revolution or the 1848 Revolutions.

438 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 10:25:55am

re: #434 SanFranciscoZionist

The Brotherhood has never made much of a secret of who they are and what they represent.

It was fashionable in the wake of Mubarak's topple to pretend that somehow they were something different now.

They ain't.

"Give them a chance!!!" /

439 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 5, 2012 1:20:49pm

re: #393 Flame Fin Tomini Tang

We grow all the main herbs in a small spot. Just a plant or two of each. Enough to step out for a little basil or thyme or parsley or mint, or whatever is called for by dinner.

I grew a lot of basil last year, so tried to harvest enough for homemade pesto. Now I'm growing industrial quantities--pesto wants a lot of basil.


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